LOST keeps us guessing and guessing. This week, Hurley and his “imaginary friend” have sparked new interest. I am a psychiatry resident who has worked in inpatient and outpatient settings, so I thought I could comment on some of this a little to answer some questions that might be arising. Also, keep in mind that some of the below statements are just my personal opinions, and not hard and set in stone. Please feel free to add your thoughts in the replies also – doesn’t matter if you work in the field, have personal experience with the subject, or have none at all, and are just curious about the show.
What was that drug Hurley took?
Clonazepam is Klonopin, a commonly prescribed benzodiazepine. It’s usually for anxiety or panick attacks, but sometimes also for seizures and mild brief psychotic disorders. It has some mild antipsychotic effects (through GABA modulation of 5HT), but is not grouped with “true” anti-psychotics (poor control for long term chronic psych illnesses and not a true neuroleptic), which makes me wonder if he’s not supposed to be taking other meds aside from that. One idea is that he may be taking once-a-month intramuscular (IM) shots of true antipsychotics like Haldol, and that’s why he’s having a “relapse” now… if it is a relapse, that is (I’m not fully convinced it is).
What was Hurley’s diagnosis?
In a real-life setting, coming to a good diagnostic conclusion takes long personal interviews with patients, checking over medical records, finding collateral information from family, and tracking a person over a period of time, so I don’t think pinpointing the absolute diagnosis is possible based on the clips we’ve seen. My own thoughts are that Hurley was diagnosed with some sort of psychotic disorder… possibly schizophrenia or psychosis secondary to depression (rarer), and Dave is a delusion/hallucination (no, I don’t buy the other story, that the islanders are all in his mind). Usually schizophrenics have auditory hallucinations (especially command), but sometimes visual and tactile ones too… though not ordinarily as distinct and clear as the one he has on the island. On the island, I feel he is more similar to Kate’s horse. IMHO, this is deliberately left vague by the writers in order to confuse us, the viewers… what is real and what is not real in this place?
Was the scene in the mental health institution accurate?
The mental health field has changed considerably over the past few decades. However, there is still that stigma that remains with “mental illness” – image of the “nutso” guy, banging his head against the wall in the corner, wearing pajamas. In reality, people are admitted for all sorts of problems today, and sometimes self-admitted – for anything from drug detox to depression. Not all are violent or dangerous. Beyond that, centers have a wide variation of setting mileus… different measures of security, freedom, dress, and rules, depending on the patient population. Some are similar to the one shown in “Dave”, some are more or less strict. They all strive to maintain some kind of patient dignity, and at the same time, a consistancy of routine & boundaries for patients.
Why did Dave want Hurley to go over a cliff?
Dave really struck me as Hurley’s Id (Freud’s concept of the Id is a part of the subconscious that does things for “the pleasure principle,” with no regard for consequences). If he creates this character in his mind, he can project all his urges and vices on this guy, instead of thinking things through himself. The man has poor impulse control, yet doesn’t want people around him to think he does… therefore, he creates a character that gives him an excuse to do the things he wants to do (steal food, break out of the ward, jump over the cliff)… but that he can’t consciously admit to wanting to do. In that way, I think Hurley is almost passively-suicidal and has a death wish. What I found most striking is that his entire life seems to revolve around guilt.
And one final thought:
- Charlie finally decides to give up drugs, at the urging of Locke. Drugs fall from the sky.
- Hurley finally decides to give up stashing food, at the urging of Libby. Food falls from the sky.
Coincidence? I don’t think so. The last temptation of Hurley? Hmm…
Thanks C., for another very informative and well-written post. I agree with your assessment that Dave is Hurley’s Id (or at least, the Dave that was with Hurley in Santa Rosa). I’m wondering what the significance is of Dave reappearing on the island. Although Hurley is surely hallucinating, is it the same Id/Dave as before, or is this Dave actually being created by the island/Dharma/something else?
8| Damn that was good! I like psicology (sorry if its mispelled) and thats one of the reason I like the show, it creates some kind of sociological experiment, interaction between roles and the test for who is going to prove the theory of Darwin the survival of the fittest… Those who have it all “The Other” and the ones who doesn’t have all “The Losties”… It’s a debacle that every thurday (Yes I use the internet to see the show on schedule :S) glues me to the show.
Thanx for another very informative post.
I won’t pretend to have any knowledge on the subject but I just hope the writers stay within some reason in order to be able to explain some of the things that are going on. I’m sure they’re going to take some liberties in order to tell a great story but I just hope they keep it relatively factual. Which will make for a better ending.
Dave was telling Hurley what Hurley wanted to be true- the interaction we saw between Hurley and Dave in the institution, Dave was telling Hurley that he didn’t need to change, because I think that is what Hurley desperately wanted someone to say to him. So that he wouldn’t feel guilty anymore, so that he’d have a real friend in the world when it seems that every one else wants him to change, and to someone with insecurities that is a lonely and sad feeling.
To me… it seems that Dave appeared again because Hurley is having such trouble on the island. Fighting with his guilt over having all the food stashed away, for instance, was really upsetting him because I think that Hurley does want to be a good person (as in, not a theif or liar).
And it is my belief that what he wants most, while on the island, is for none of it to be real. He wants to “wake up” and realize that everything has been a dream, a horrible nightmare. So that’s what Dave tells him- that none of it is real, its all in Hurley’s head, and he’s still safe and sound back in the mental hospital. This is Hurley’s deepest wish and having someone tell him that it is the truth is comforting to him. That’s what I think.
Another great post Cecilia but you must take this further, beyond Hurley. Don’t all of our characters have guilt? This episode showed us how Hurley is dealing (or attempting to deal) with his guilt. It is an obvious element in this week’s show. I think ALL of the shows have been about how the character deals with guilt, it just isn’t so up front in many of the other ones. Guilt is a common thread amongst all of our characters, except perhaps the two we don’t know well (Rose and Bernard) and Ecko, who seems to have confessed his guilt and is now (I think) building a church!!! When his church is complete, will others come to confess?
i think that what you posted is what the writers want you to think.
my thoughts are dave is real, the hospital is connected to dharma, hence libby, and locke’s mom, where the numbers come from. i think dave is the leader of the others that henry is so afraid of. . .which would tie in to the title a little. the cliff where hurley was going to jump is the location of the underwater complex. not only that but the psychiatrist is also dharma affiliated.
but this is just a pipe dream.
This is an amazing blog. Thank goodness I found it because I don’t think I can keep speculating alone.
My feeling was that Dave is a representation of Hurley’s inner thoughts (the devil on his shoulder so to speak). It seems that subconsciously Hurley may be realizing that the island is just a big psychological experiment.
I definitely believe Dharma and the hospital are related, but not sure how yet because I don’t believe all the other people are also patients. That’s the only way I can justify the numbers link in my mind.
Thanks, guys.
Job- Yeah, that’s what I was wondering, and I really don’t think it’s the “same” Dave.
Arattilion- Yeah, I like psych also.
Sometimes I wonder if my personal bias causes me to focus more on some elements of the show than others – I’m sure this happens with everyone. But I don’t think there’s any denying that psychology & human thoughts/dreams/memories are a very big theme in this show.
Mike- I’m sort of hoping they’ll keep at it at least somewhat grounded, and logical. So far, I don’t think it’s been too bad. I think there is a way we can explain many of these very paranormal things in terms of science fiction, even if some are a stretched.
Libby- Yes! More excellent analysis.
I saw it that way also (I have to limit my posts to a certain length on the blog, so I don’t write everything, but I agree with these points).
On dreams, I really, really think these play a key role as well. If you look at Hurley’s dream, for instance, that he had in “Everybody Hates Hugo”. He was asked in that episode to ration & distribute the food, an enormous responsibility, and also put him in this position of having to make choices that other people didn’t like (Charlie was mad at him for not giving him peanut butter). He’s used to being the clown that everyone loves. So his dream is about anxiety and guilt. He dreams of a guy in a chicken suit – suit from Mr. Cluck’s, and the guy in it was the cashier who sold him the winning lottery ticket. To me, this represented the last time in his life which was relatively carefree and simple, when he just had a minimum wage paying job, and before he won millions of dollars, and his whole life changed (he feels cursed by it rather than blessed). Also, in it, he thinks Jin is speaking English, but Jin says “No Hurley, you’re speaking Korean.” I think this represents anxiety that he will be ostracized, isolated, and misunderstood, much as Jin is set apart from the others because of the language barrier. Dream interpretation is fun, isn’t it?
jim- I soooo agree with you on the guilt angle. In fact, I edited in a last few lines comparing Hurley & Charlie’s “gifts from the sky”. Guilt is definitely a common thread between the characters, without a doubt tying into religious themes. And yes, Eko I believe is also building a church. If you go to the ABC site, and look under episode synopses, you’ll see what I mean – I think ABC actually goofed and let the cat out of the bag (they state that Eko told Charlie he was building a church, though I don’t think they actually mentioned this in the show – I think they got mixed up in what the audience knew and didn’t know yet). I believe this show is trying to show how a microcosm of people approach rebuilding of a miniature society. If you read Dante’s Inferno, you can see where there is discussion that in a mature society, science will have difficulty moving forward (answering the “hows”) without faith to explain the “whys”.
jay- That’s alright, there are lots of different ways to see the show, and I don’t think that your way is ruled out either. I am only explaining some of the concreter elements of the show since this is the perspective given for Hurley, and therefore, the audience. There will no doubt be a twist later on. The writers keep things deliberately vague so that there are multiple interpretations and plotlines possible, such as for Sun’s baby; that’s part of the brilliance of the show.
Just wanted to post for the first time and say: Best blog entry so far; excellent analysis! I check everyday and will keep stopping by for sure.
That’s nice but the real story was about what happened in the hatch. The more important common trait than “guilt” is the fact that everyone has killed somebody. Now we know who Hurley killed.
Was it just me, or did the expression on Libby’s face change to evil as she led Hurley from the cliff? My wife thinks I’m crazy.
As she assured Hurley and walked him off, her voice trailed off and began sounding more “fake”. As she walked across the screen, her expression was clearly changed to sinister and the music also became more foreboding. Immediately, the scene shot to Hurley in the mental ward with Libby looking, at first, incoherently around the ward and then focussing, again in a sinister way, on Hurley.
Also, I’m new to this blog, so this may have already been discussed. I believe these characters all died in the plane crash, and that the island is a characterization of purgatory, or a netherworld, where each character has the opportunity to defeat or reinforce the good and bad of their personality while alive. The backstories develop the characters in a way that points to the parallels between decisions they made while alive, and the decisions they now face on the Island.
The Others are the demons, or the keepers of purgatory. As the show unwinds, we will be brought deeper and deeper into labrynthe as we descend into the layers of Dante’s Inferno.
This view is consistent with the observation that the Others seem uncomplicated with a singular focus on destruction, confusion and divisiveness. The show would not create these characters to be ignorant “savages” who attack a world they do not have the sophistication to understand. That view is so 19th Century. Rather, the Others were anticipating the plane crash and began immediately infiltrating, confusing and harming the victims for no reason that is apparent to us.
Perhaps this view that this is purgatory is too “Western Civ” in its interpretation, and knowing the Zietgiest of Hollywood, I am probably missing elements of Eastern faiths that also have parallels to this show.
The purgatory idea was dismissed by the writers a while back, but it was a good theory.
JoshMan, I think you may be confusing Inferno and Purgatorio, which are two seperate canticas of Dante’s “Divine Comedy”.
Also, I think that the “Others” have a clearly stated reason for infiltrating and kidnapping some of the Flight 815 survivors – to wit: they want the “good” people. We haven’t been told what criteria they are using to judge “goodness”, whether it be moral goodness, or possibly “good genes”, or some other good quality that they need.
And for what it’s worth, SmileyMe, if J.J Abrams, Damon Lindelof, or Carlton Cuse told me that the sky was blue, I’d look up, anyway.
Joshman, I too thought her expression changed as she trailed Hugo and looked down toward the ground.
When did the producers dismiss the purgatory theory? That’s been my guess all along.
What has become of the “monster” that slashed and killed the pilot? “Smokie” didn’t do it, wouldn’t it have done the same to Locke and Ecko?
If purgatory is out of the question then I think
Locke is the resident other, who somehow escaped the island, or was thrown off because he lost the ability to walk.
Everyone has not killed someone yet.
Jin- He just beat that guy up for his father-in-law
Sun-
Charlie-
Claire-
Locke-
Jack- He did not work on the other person in the car accident, does that count as murder
Michael-
Guilt, yes, they all have guilt.
Cecilia: “My own thoughts are that Hurley was diagnosed with some sort of psychotic disorder… possibly schizophrenia or psychosis secondary to depression (rarer), and Dave is a delusion/hallucination (no, I don’t buy the other story, that the islanders are all in his mind).”
I’m more Jungian inspired than Freud, therefore I’ll suggest that Dave represents Shadow content. The Shadow is always the same gender as the individual. Having waded into shadow territory, Hurley’s anima is surely not far behind. Therefore, I’ll wager that a love interest angle will come up soon, if it isn’t already there. An individual will require the anima (or animus) as guide if they hope to safely make it through the labryinth of the unconscious and back out again.
More here: http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/shadow.html
theory: I think the dharma initiative is not a study on human behavior..I think it has something to do with time travel.
SOmehow they are quantum leaping and screwing with the time – space continuim and they use theisland to jumpstart the experiment. Remember the line by hurley when they got that radio signal from a 1940′s radio station and his comment about “from another time” Notice the show is diverting the truth by confusing the audience. The Black Rock is critical, obviously it is from another era, maybe 1800′s. It also seems to me that in order for all these characters to intertwine they have to be manipulated in some way. Possibly they have been planted into society to act out a blueprint that has been coded on the island. Also it’s possible that after all this debate and discusiion it could end up being as simple as a bunch of people hooked up to a virtual reality type device and this is all a test. Or it really is purgatory and they had to say it wasn’t so people would watch. I know My points are weaksauce but you heard it here first.
mike (the dude abides)
Bruin31- I was wondering about the monster too. it just seems odd that is would go and disappear. I think that everytime they enter the code it disables the monster for a hundred and eight minutes. everytime it isn’t pushed it is attracted by the electromagnet.
Comment edited by Admin, Mikey please don’t post information from the previews as some prefer not watching them to avoid spoilers.
spiritual emergency: An excellent analysis as well! I’m not particular about being “Freudian” or “Jungian” or sticking to any one camp myself, I chose the Id concept to discuss, because it’s more commonly understood by people not into psych. It is far from being the only way of looking at things, and I think your interpretation is wonderful as well.
im sorry admin
Hey Cecilia, great post ! I loved the episode and your post made me think about psych.
I think it is absolutely sure that the new appearance of Dave is linked with Hurley’s love affair with Libby ! I mean it’s like his feeling get upset by a love relationship and all of sudden his mother (ID) appeared again to make him feel guilty about a sexual relationship.
Indeed, the dave’s speech sounds like “you are a just a kid”, “you can do nothing but satisfy with yourself” … “you don’t have a sex”. You are absolutely right to tell that Hurley has a guilt problem.
So Libby helping Hurley to get rid of Dave acts like the shrink, she helps him to grow up to be happy ! Dave embodies the madness of Hurley : he wants to be an eternal baby, like Charlie “chasing the dragon” (does it exist in English ? it’s “using heroin”) to get an unlimited happiness.
Consequently, the way you compare Charlie with Hurley is absolutely relevant !
Thus Aaron (only baby) in the show stands for something very peculiar : Charlie is jealous with his condition that’s why Claire gets rid of Charlie because he behaves in an insane way with her.
On the one hand, the others wants to take the baby, but on the other hand they over-feed the losties : so they want the lostie to be babies instead of Aaron.
Hence, this shows is the symbol of all of us fighting to grow up rather than staying babies like our ennemies want to.
This is funny cause in France mentalities are not like that, it’s typically Amercian (and I love !!). We would rather consider that the others look forward us to helping them, so that we help them to grow up because they are childish spying us and trying to hurt us. I can’t explain it’s just a strong cultural feeling.
Hum, anyway, congratulations for this post Cecilia, and all the blog. Are you a shrink yourself to have all this impressive knowledge ?
See u !
Great psych theory also, florims…
In the States, our medical residency (training for a specialty after medical school) is usually 4 years for psych, and I’m in the middle of that now. Unfortunately, I have to (hopefully temporarily) discontinue my residency for now due to health problems, so I’m not actively practicing… so I have a lot of free time to get obsessed over LOST.
And to answer your question, yes, I’m a “shrink”.
Did I miss this in anyone’s comments. Wasn’t that Libby in the mental institution at the very end of the episode? What does that mean?
Hi!
Firstly, I think that Joshman should pipe down and start watching Lost before writing on blogs like this! Secondly, of course we have chasing the Dragon in English, but it’s actually smoking crack through a crack pipe (smoke = Dragon)
Any way, back to lost, my theory is that There is another, undetected undecover other infaltrating the camp. I am sure that this person must be of the tail section as the fusalagites had the manifest. We know that it isn’t Eko or A.L. or Bernie, so it must be Libby. I think she was on the plane though! I reckon that she was sent to the mad house to spy on the nutter repeating the numbers. She may have realised that hurly had played the numbers and started to follow him. Now, on the island, she is trying toget close to him as he is the most important person on the island (see bonus on DVD). Dhe may have actually falleen in Love with him, but I think she is in cahoots with the others! Obviously this is only a theory, but we will have to wait for her back story before we can have any idea!
I was actually pretty shocked Hurley was taking Klonopin!
I was prescribed Klonopin when I was having a very anxious time in my life, but I was certainly not hallucinating!
Anyway, this blog is great! I have nothing more to add.
Hi DAVID, skip down to the article on the episode “Dave” (below this one). We discuss the appearance of Libby there.
PD: Yeah, it’s definitely not first line for hallucinations; but there are psychotic patients who stake it *in addition* to their antipsychotics as an adjunct (since the hallucinations can create anxiety, too). If you see on top, I speculate that they may have either made an error and meant “Clozapine” (a true antipsychotic), or they merely thought it would be more believable to have a benzodiazepine on the plane than an antipsychotic (which would be rare and probably not believable).
we dont know that it truly is klnoso-wahtsit. just like the desmond/claire drug. especially if dharma controls the hospital, as some people think.
my cousin just told me that klonopin is an antidepressent/seditive. so was hurley’s doctor lying?
[quote comment="1141"] If you see on top, I speculate that they may have either made an error and meant “Clozapine” (a true antipsychotic), or they merely thought it would be more believable to have a benzodiazepine on the plane than an antipsychotic (which would be rare and probably not believable).[/quote]
sawyer never said he had it. hurley said that he needed medicine, but the fight started before sawyer could that he had it. it was never established that it (the medicine) was on the plane.
Sceve– to answer your questions:
Klonopin can be considered a sedative (usually people put it in the anxiolytic class, but it depends on the dose)… and can help with anxiety-dominant depression. However, it’s not classically considered an antidepressive, this isn’t its chief role.
And yeah, I know Sawyer didn’t have it, but I was just thinking that it was more of a plausible thing to *ask* him if he had.
Diagnosing ‘mental disorders’ is NOT an exact science. That’s what makes it dangerous sometimes. I worked with ‘autistic’ kids in a hospital setting, and the ‘Psychiatrist’ had intense psychotropic ordered for ‘acting out behaviors.’ WBR LeoP