Catch 22

Desmond Hume on Lost

It’s the best day of the week again and personally I couldn’t be happier – tonight’s new Lost episode “Catch 22″ focuses on Desmond and one of his “flashes” from the future.

The last Desmond-centric episode “Flashes before your eyes” really played with the concept of non-linear time and free will versus determinism so it will be interesting to see if this episode reveals more about Desmond’s strange ability, or “lame super-power” as Hurley would put it.

Someone else with extraordinary abilities is the new manipulator in the beach camp. With Juliet around, things are bound to get interesting…

This is the official description of “Catch 22″:

Warning, spoilers!

“Catch-22″ – Desmond coaxes Charlie, Hurley and Jin on a trek across the jungle after experiencing one of his future-prophesizing “flashes” — but is he purposely placing Charlie’s life in harm’s way? Meanwhile, Kate turns to an unwitting Sawyer after seeing Jack alone with Juliet, on “Lost,” WEDNESDAY, APRIL 18 (10:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network.

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390 Responses to Catch 22

  1. lost chicka says:

    AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! THAT EPISODE WAS FRIGGIN AWESOME!!!!!!!! WHO WAS THAT CHICK? IT WASN’T PENNY, SO WHO WAS IT?

  2. Bobbi says:

    HMMM very interesting episode. Was that girl Portuguese like the two “eskimos”? I wonder why her chopper went down…still a “force shield” up?

  3. Meg says:

    I think it was his girlfriend of 6 years that he left to become a monk.

  4. Hurley's Dad says:

    The girls name was Naomi, and I want to be the first to post…..

    Time travel lady was in the picture on the monk’s desk near the end. When somebody gets a screenshot, please post!

  5. SpinPapi says:

    That old woman from the jewelry shop who Desmond met, the one who didn’t want him to buy the ring? She was in the picture on the boss monk’s desk. I skipped back and verified it. Someone very much wanted Desmond on this path…or at least closely watched over him as he walked it.

    =]

  6. Dan-o says:

    Did anyone else notice the photo on the head monk’s desk? I think it was the monk and the “sheriff” other that tried to sell Desmond the ring and told him about his future flashes. I can’t remember her name at the moment though.

    To top that off, notice that everything is in black and white, but the woman is in color.

  7. SpinPapi says:

    Haha @ Hurley’s Dad…we musta been writing at the same time. I didn’t wanna be first post…but I wanted to be first to post THAT!

    What an incredible episode, and no others. Juliet doesn’t count. Favorite line…Sawyer sayin they had to play a game every 108 minutes or the island would explode.

  8. Bobbi says:

    The woman selling ring was determined to be different person than the “sheriff”. But yes, I agree it looks like the ring lady in the pic!
    However, the female pilot, is definitely not Desmond’s first fiance.

  9. mr jones says:

    [quote comment="51423"]I think it was his girlfriend of 6 years that he left to become a monk.[/quote]
    I just looked back and it’s definitely not her

    Some other things i noticed…

    first, Im not 100%, but I think when desmond goes to “turn in his robe” there is a very odd picture on the monks desk. I’m pretty sure Isabel is the lady in the photo. However, she looks like she might be older with gray hair.

    Second, was it me or when desmond saw penny at the end of the episode did he look like he had seen her before?

  10. Toeknee says:

    Good episode. I can certainly do without the Jack-Kate-Sawyer-Juliet love-triangle/square. But other than that it was good.

    D&C said there would be a momentous event in this episode, so which is it? Desmond saving Charlie instead of letting him die? The new person arriving on the island?

  11. Nick says:

    Very good episode, considering “One of Us” was the best of the year and a tough act to follow.

    DID ANYONE SEE THE PICTURE ON THE MONK’S DESK? It flashed quickly but I swear he was in a shot with the old woman from the jewelry store in desmond’s last episode. cool connection- have to see how it plays out…

  12. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51424"]The girls name was Naomi, and I want to be the first to post…..

    Time travel lady was in the picture on the monk’s desk near the end. When somebody gets a screenshot, please post![/quote]
    Damn! I wanted to be first to post that (about Mrs Hawking)! Good catch HurleysDad!

  13. dragonfly says:

    We all saw the picture on the monk’s desk!! Hurley’s Dad and SinPapi were the first to post that :)

  14. Nick says:

    oops didn’t mean to be the jerk who repeats the same comment over and over and over…

  15. dragonfly says:

    What’s up with the biblical discussion in the monastery about abraham?

  16. Dan-o says:

    Actually, it was a three way tie on posting about the pic. But the odd thing was that the photo was b/w, but the time lady was in color.

  17. Bobbi says:

    I’m figuring Penny hired this girl to fly in and find Desmond. That would be why she had their picture in the book she was reading-which by the way, does anyone know about that book? Books shown in episodes usually have interesting ties to show. Also, she said “Desmond” at end, so she was definitely looking for him, but I wonder if he knows her. The look on his face-i couldn’t tell if it was a look saying ‘wth are u doin here?’ OR ‘you are NOT penny’.

  18. Toeknee says:

    So are we to assume the backpack they found belonged to Naomi? Why on earth would Naomi have that picture of Des & Pen? What language was the book “Catch-22″ in?

  19. mr jones says:

    I guess we have all been noticing this picture at the same time…I’ve been on lostpedia and i cant figure out if it is isabel, the “sherif,” or the girl from the ring store. are they the same person?

  20. Nick says:

    [quote comment="51428"] Favorite line…Sawyer sayin they had to play a game every 108 minutes or the island would explode.[/quote]

    good one- also liked sawyer’s “who is your favorite other” comment

  21. SpinPapi says:

    [quote comment="51430"]first, Im not 100%, but I think when desmond goes to “turn in his robe” there is a very odd picture on the monks desk. I’m pretty sure Isabel is the lady in the photo. However, she looks like she might be older with gray hair.

    Second, was it me or when desmond saw penny at the end of the episode did he look like he had seen her before?[/quote]

    I think it’s very funny that so many people think Isabel (the Sherrif, right?) and the Jewelry Time Travel lady look alike. but anyway, they don’t. lol.

    I thought the same thing though about it looking like Des knew Penny already when they met. maybe he becomes more aware of how his life unfolded in his past, the more time goes by? or by flexing his muscles in changing the future, he becomes more aware of the past…or more awareness of the past is NECESSARY to change the future?

  22. Bobbi says:

    dragonfly-remind me if i’m wrong-but last week wasn’t there some discussion about twins from the bible? Wasn’t one of them Isaac? When they were discussing Abraham being ordered to kill Isaac-his son, perhaps it was another reference to an evil twin.

  23. Becky says:

    Fantastic episode! I took notes this time so I could remember key points.

    1. I found it very interesting that Charlie and Hurley were arguing over which super hero would win a race…Superman or Flash. Did anyone else notice when the actual jungle walk happened that there was a flash on Hurley as he said the word “Flash” or was that just my tv? Also mentioning vibrating walls (like the hatch) was cool.

    2. So far, Desmond has saved Charlie from earth (the rock with the bird), fire (lightning), water (drowning) and now the arrow…(wind??) The elements! Does this mean anything?

    3. I loved the Easter egg about the jigsaw puzzle with no picture on the box as the Lost puzzles come in boxes with no pictures, making them all the more complicated to put together. There is also a picture on the back once the puzzle is completed…a picture of the black light map from the hatc.

    4. Now we know why Desmond calls everyone “brother”! He is a brother…or was. Very interesting that he was a monk. Religious aspect, naturally, but also the focus on sacrifice. He had to sacrifice all of his life (including leaving his fiancee Ruth) for a greater calling. This foreshadows his giving up Penny for the greater calling of “saving the world” by pushing the button. Also, Ruth is from the Bible also.

    5. The love quadrangle between Jack/Juliette/Sawyer/Kate is pretty predictable. I liked Sawyer’s quip about playing ping pong every 108 minutes or the island will explode…cute. Apparently Kate and Sawyer will be “friends with benefits.”

    6. At least Bernard was mentioned as Sawyer got the “mix tape” of best of Phil Collins from Bernard’s tent. But where are he and Rose? Are they away, which is why Sawyer could steal his tape? Is there a tape player on the island?

    7. Moriah Wine…Moriah for the mountain where Abraham had to sacrifice Isaac…more Biblical symbolism of sacrifice and redemption.
    Also the wine brought Desmond and Penny together.

    8. Who is the chick that fell from the sky? She looks Indian. She knows Desmond. So who is she? How did she find him? What was that light attached to her flashing? Was that the same red dot from the sky?

    9. There seemed to be a red theme in this episode: red wine, red dot, red guitar, Jin wearing a red shirt, Desmond wearing a red shirt in the photo of him and Penny, red blood from Charlie’s throat.

    Overall, wonderful episode! Dying to know who that woman is!

    Looking forward to everyone’s comments.

  24. Mike says:

    Did anyone else notice the flickers? There were two that I caught. Right before Desmond saves Charlie, there was a flicker of semi-circular blue/white light in the upper right corner. Then there was a second, full frame flicker, right before they pulled the helmet off the rescue girl.

  25. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51442"][quote comment="51428"] Favorite line…Sawyer sayin they had to play a game every 108 minutes or the island would explode.[/quote]

    good one- also liked sawyer’s “who is your favorite other” comment[/quote]
    __________________
    Yes! I was cracking up a the favorite other comment.

    Also, Hurley to Desmond: “Thanks for the heads up about an umbrella, Dude”

  26. Becky says:

    [quote comment="51423"]I think it was his girlfriend of 6 years that he left to become a monk.[/quote]
    Definitely not. I thought the same but rewinded my DVR and saw that Ruth had light skin and BRIGHT blue eyes…this girl had darker skin and brown eyes.

  27. Dan-o says:

    Just checked Google translator. “Ardil” translates to “Scheme” in Portugese.

  28. Bobbi says:

    OK, now that it has been determined the jewelry lady is in pic-WHY? She can’t be his wife. -But are they too close in age to be his mom? I gotta see pic again-I didn’t think it was black and white, I thought it was jus because the monk was dressed bland, but I only saw it quick.

  29. Laura says:

    Okay I thought the girl at the end looked like Sherry from Not in Portland (the girl that Juliet’s ex-husband is hooking up with)… her name is Kimberly Estrada… that would sure make for an interesting welcome on the beach when Juliet sees her…

  30. lost chicka says:

    great episode of lost, way better than last week’s. love how they yank us around the whole show saying it’s gonna end this way then change it over and over.

    the girl who crashed is named Naomi, and the gir he dated for 6 yrs & almost married was Ruth. Any connection?

    anybody know what Jin’s scary story was? sure it was just a scary story, but who knows? it is lost.

  31. cmblite says:

    becky you stole my thunder with your #3 point….

  32. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51445"]
    9. There seemed to be a red theme in this episode: red wine, red dot, red guitar, Jin wearing a red shirt, Desmond wearing a red shirt in the photo of him and Penny, red blood from Charlie’s throat.
    [/quote]
    Good observation. Also there was the blood on Desmond’s nose after he got punched

  33. Becky says:

    [quote comment="51455"]becky you stole my thunder with your #3 point….[/quote]
    I’m sorry!!! My brother-in-law has the puzzles and they are soooooo frustrating to do…but fun, too!

  34. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51449"]Just checked Google translator. “Ardil” translates to “Scheme” in Portugese.[/quote]
    AH HA! So she does speak Portuguese indeed! Just like the “eskimos”.

  35. Becky says:

    [quote comment="51452"]great episode of lost, way better than last week’s. love how they yank us around the whole show saying it’s gonna end this way then change it over and over.

    the girl who crashed is named Naomi, and the gir he dated for 6 yrs & almost married was Ruth. Any connection?

    anybody know what Jin’s scary story was? sure it was just a scary story, but who knows? it is lost.[/quote]
    how do you know her name is Naomi???

  36. Becky says:

    Also, Jin’s story reminded me of that old Nickelodeon show “Are you Afraid of the Dark?” where the kids sat around a campfire telling scary stories.

  37. Hurley's Dad says:

    Both Ruth and Naomi are listed on Lostpedia

  38. Superchimp says:

    Few things:

    – The book is Catch 22 in Portuguese. So, it can probably be assumed that the parachutist is Portuguese as well, which would obviously tie into the men at the end of last season calling Penelope.

    – The woman in the picture was definitely from the jewelery shop. As she seems to be the one ‘guiding’ Desmond’s path and making sure he gets to the island, I don’t think she’s actually ‘in’ the picture in reality. Rather, she’s once again influencing events so that Desmond keeps on his path.

    – I also think that Desmond saving Charlie might have messed with whatever was actually going to happen and possibly changed the identity of the parachutist.

  39. Bobbi says:

    Did I miss something? How do we know pilot’s name is Naomi?

  40. Nick says:

    googled ruth a little bit- went to a catholic college but i can’t say im a biblical scholar.

    she is seen as an ideal widow- very similar parallel to penny’s devotion to desmond even though he is all but lost?

    anyone else know anything about ruth?

  41. Hurley's Dad says:

    Sorry…I suppose that’s a spoiler. Didn’t mean to tell everybody. :(

    The actress was on Las Vegas, Marsha Thompson.

  42. Okay, folks, read the first commenting guideline: read all the comments and don’t repeat what’s been said. I’m not going to repeat the comment that’s already been repeated about five times because I don’t want to do the same thing. :-)

  43. Becky says:

    In the Bible, Naomi is the mother-in-law of Ruth.

  44. Nick says:

    [quote comment="51468"]In the Bible, Naomi is the mother-in-law of Ruth.[/quote]

    good pick up becky

  45. Jet Black says:

    I am guessing the bookbag belongs to the pilot chick who was there to find Desmond. That would explain the photo, so that she could recognize him, and the satelite phone, so she could contact penny who is on some boat nearby.

  46. Jet Black says:

    Could someone please tell me who the biblical character Jacob is and whether he has anything to do with the bible story that was referenced today?

  47. Bobbi says:

    I’ll be interested to find out why the chopper went down.
    Also, whether or not there was any other crew with her, and will we run across them in jungle later on?
    I honestly didn’t know if Desmond would save Charlie or not. BUT-so far Desmond doesn’t have “blood on his hands”-so maybe he’s safe from Smokey? ;)

  48. Jake says:

    [quote comment="51449"]Just checked Google translator. “Ardil” translates to “Scheme” in Portugese.[/quote]

    Portugese is also the language that they spoke in the listening station in the season 2 finale.

    Also, someone correctly identified both the woman in the picture as Mrs. Hawking(the jewlery store lady(not the same as the sherrif lady “Isabel”)) And, the girl at the end is Naomi, also a biblical name.

    Interestingly, biblically, Naomi is the mother of Ruth, like the book of Ruth. She was the only female judge. Ruth was the name of the girl that Desmond left to join the monastary.

  49. lost chicka says:

    -sawyer seems very open to being used to maybe/possibly make jack jealous
    - how could saving charlie change the chick’s identity? penny crashes and des saves charlie’s life then bang! it’s differnet girl?
    - no others? what’s happening?!

  50. Hurley's Dad says:

    Jacob is the son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham.

    He also had a twin brother named Esau.

    Moriah is the mountain range where the sacrafice of Isaac was said to have taken place.

    Naomi is the mother-in-law of Ruth, who (after Ruth’s husband dies) pledges her undying devotion to Naomi. Later, Ruth marries Boaz and they have a son, Obed. Ruth ends up being the great-grandmother of King David.

    Clear as mud? :)

  51. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51471"]Could someone please tell me who the biblical character Jacob is and whether he has anything to do with the bible story that was referenced today?[/quote]
    Abraham is the father of Isaac
    Isaac is the father of Jacob
    Jacob is the father of Benjamin.

    Not sure if or how Naomi & Ruth are related to those folks.

  52. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51474"]-sawyer seems very open to being used to maybe/possibly make jack jealous
    - how could saving charlie change the chick’s identity? penny crashes and des saves charlie’s life then bang! it’s differnet girl?
    - no others? what’s happening?![/quote]
    Yeah, he seemed willing to Kate-but when jack told him about talking with kate, having dinner with juliet-sawyer knew what was up with Kate-and i think it bothered him. He just put up good front to kate. But honestly, i think he feels for kate, but she doesnt for him. (although i think it was a bit much for her to CRY over jack)

  53. Terry says:

    I think the pilot was sent by penny, desmond mentions she would spend any amount of money and travel where ever to find him, the pic is to id him when she does, how did she find the island…who knows..maybe desmond told her where he was going.

  54. Toeknee says:

    Damn! Hurley’s Dad beat me to it again! Sorry for the duplicate info.

  55. lost chicka says:

    nobody’s mentioned this yet but the plane didn’t crash coz desmund didn’t push button on time. des has been there 3 years & so has julls. anybody else think that there’s like a “bubble” protectin the island that keeps it from being found but they have to open it up to let new Others come in & so anybody can crash on the island? just an idea that hit me while watching the show.

  56. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51474"]-sawyer seems very open to being used to maybe/possibly make jack jealous
    [/quote]
    As long as he gets to have sex with Kate, I don’t think he cares what the reason is.

  57. Jake says:

    [quote comment="51471"]Could someone please tell me who the biblical character Jacob is and whether he has anything to do with the bible story that was referenced today?[/quote]

    Jacob is Issac’s favorite son. God tells Issac that he must sacrifice Jacob to him. Issac decides to do this and leads Jacob up a mountain (I believe called Moriah). God interviens at the last moment and provides a ram to Issac to sacrifice to him instead. The point of the story is to trust God even though he may be asking the impossible.

    It’s very similar to Desmond leading Charlie. Desmond even mentions being tested, and that he his failing at it.

  58. Superchimp says:

    [quote comment="51474"]-sawyer seems very open to being used to maybe/possibly make jack jealous
    - how could saving charlie change the chick’s identity? penny crashes and des saves charlie’s life then bang! it’s differnet girl?
    - no others? what’s happening?![/quote]

    Although I’m not really sure (and I doubt) if it was ever Penelope in the first place, it would be possible because Desmond was not ‘supposed’ to save Charlie. Having done so, the ‘picture’ that all the difference ‘pieces’ (Desmond’s flashes) were coming together to create ultimately changed.

  59. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51480"]nobody’s mentioned this yet but the plane didn’t crash coz desmund didn’t push button on time. des has been there 3 years & so has julls. anybody else think that there’s like a “bubble” protectin the island that keeps it from being found but they have to open it up to let new Others come in & so anybody can crash on the island? just an idea that hit me while watching the show.[/quote]
    yeah chicka-that’s what i thought too-a “force shield” or something. That’s why I am eager to see what reason the pilot gives them for her crash. Desmond pushing the button maybe puts down the “shield”. Would explain the Dharma supply drops. However, wouldnt’ the bubble be gone now that the hatch exploded? HMMM

  60. Superchimp says:

    Anyone got any ideas on who Jewelery Store lady is? She obviously knows the future and/or can time travel (and either knew the monk that fired Desmond or was controlling Desmond’s path). Is she Dharma? An Other? Something else entirely?

  61. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51483"][quote comment="51474"]-sawyer seems very open to being used to maybe/possibly make jack jealous
    - how could saving charlie change the chick’s identity? penny crashes and des saves charlie’s life then bang! it’s differnet girl?
    - no others? what’s happening?![/quote]

    Although I’m not really sure (and I doubt) if it was ever Penelope in the first place, it would be possible because Desmond was not ‘supposed’ to save Charlie. Having done so, the ‘picture’ that all the difference ‘pieces’ (Desmond’s flashes) were coming together to create ultimately changed.[/quote]
    ______________
    And perhaps now that is what Desmond will be thinking – that by saving Charlie he screwed up his chance to be reunited with Penny.

  62. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51482"][quote comment="51471"]Could someone please tell me who the biblical character Jacob is and whether he has anything to do with the bible story that was referenced today?[/quote]

    Jacob is Issac’s favorite son. God tells Issac that he must sacrifice Jacob to him. Issac decides to do this and leads Jacob up a mountain (I believe called Moriah). God interviens at the last moment and provides a ram to Issac to sacrifice to him instead. The point of the story is to trust God even though he may be asking the impossible.

    It’s very similar to Desmond leading Charlie. Desmond even mentions being tested, and that he his failing at it.[/quote]
    But Desmond says Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac.

  63. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51486"]Anyone got any ideas on who Jewelery Store lady is? She obviously knows the future and/or can time travel (and either knew the monk that fired Desmond or was controlling Desmond’s path). Is she Dharma? An Other? Something else entirely?[/quote]
    The better challenge might be “which biblical name will she have?”

  64. maddmaxx says:

    could the girl possibly be desmonds daughter? How could she be desmonds daughter?Because shes from the future.

  65. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51488"][quote comment="51482"][quote comment="51471"]Could someone please tell me who the biblical character Jacob is and whether he has anything to do with the bible story that was referenced today?[/quote]

    Jacob is Issac’s favorite son. God tells Issac that he must sacrifice Jacob to him. Issac decides to do this and leads Jacob up a mountain (I believe called Moriah). God interviens at the last moment and provides a ram to Issac to sacrifice to him instead. The point of the story is to trust God even though he may be asking the impossible.

    It’s very similar to Desmond leading Charlie. Desmond even mentions being tested, and that he his failing at it.[/quote]
    But Desmond says Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac.[/quote]

    Yeah it was Abraham and Isaac, not Isaac and Jacob.

  66. Fluca says:

    Not meaning to nitpick, but the correct language is Brazilian Portuguese, and the guys at the polar station were Brazilian and so were Paulo (Rodrgio Santoro).
    Not only that, but the book is actually a Brazilian translation of Catch-22, by an editor house called “Record” (the little stylized R, on the lower right of the book cover).

  67. Fluca says:

    An interesting description of the book, found on Amazon.com, by Robert W. Moore:
    “CATCH-22 is masterful in so many ways. It begins as comic farce, proceeds to the increasingly surreal, and then transforms into a nightmarish tragedy before ending triumphantly”.
    Cheers

  68. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51492"]Not meaning to nitpick, but the correct language is Brazilian Portuguese, and the guys at the polar station were Brazilian and so were Paulo (Rodrgio Santoro).
    Not only that, but the book is actually a Brazilian translation of Catch-22, by an editor house called “Record” (the little stylized R, on the lower right of the book cover).[/quote]
    Good- even more detail to back up the thoughts that she definitely was sent by Penny-and is part of a “team” penny created with the guys in listening station.

  69. Hurley's Dad says:

    Since nobody else has yet. :)

    http://lost.cubit.net/viewEgg.php?id=271

    Looks really photoshoped in, but definitely Ms. Hawking.

  70. Tasha says:

    That’s it! They are all reliving the bible! History is repeating itself!

    I Love Desmond!!

  71. Bizzy says:

    Did anyone see the picture on the monk’s desk?

    Would you want to bail out of a helicopter?

    Is Desmond evil?

    Do eskimoes speak Portuguese?

  72. Fluca says:

    Well, at least we know Des was in Scotland when he met Penny, if that counts for something…

  73. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51497"]Since nobody else has yet. :)

    http://lost.cubit.net/viewEgg.php?id=271

    Looks really photoshoped in, but definitely Ms. Hawking.[/quote]
    ALRIGHT! Well she isnt the only color-the pic is in color (green grass). BUT-she is wearing the same damn thing as in the jewelry store. Maybe her “purpose” is to follow Desmond through his travels-to ensure he continues to fulfill his destiny.

  74. Superchimp says:

    [quote comment="51497"]Since nobody else has yet. :)

    http://lost.cubit.net/viewEgg.php?id=271

    Looks really photoshoped in, but definitely Ms. Hawking.[/quote]

    Agreed on the photoshop job–it seems like a really bad one, at that. And since Lost spends a lot of money on these sorts of things and puts in Easter Eggs on purpose (and this is one of the most important ones yet), you’ve got to think that the photoshop job was on purpose. But for what?? Maybe the lady doesn’t even know the monk but is ‘watching’ Desmond or controlling the monk so that Desmond stays on his path toward the island? Other thoughts??

  75. Tasha says:

    It doesn’t even look like she is supposed to be in that picture. She is definitely watching!

  76. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51499"]Did anyone see the picture on the monk’s desk?

    Would you want to bail out of a helicopter?

    Is Desmond evil?

    Do eskimoes speak Portuguese?[/quote]

    OMG r u joking about the pic?
    “eskimos” has been the term most have been using about the guys in listening station-it started when they were first showed, and we were all trying to figure out what they were speaking.

  77. Hurley's Dad says:

    Odd picture of the monk too, don’t you think? Looks more like a mug shot than a pic on “bring your monk mom to work day.”

  78. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51503"]It doesn’t even look like she is supposed to be in that picture. She is definitely watching![/quote]
    Also-remember Desmond’s story to Ruth? He looked up to sky, asked God for guidance, then doesn’t remember anything until waking up in middle of street, where the monk asked to help him. He is then “kept” at the abbey-and fired at the first “screw-up”. HMMM, perhaps a manipulation to keep him and steer him toward Penny-and his destiny? I know, major conspiracy theory-but it is Lost afterall.

  79. Superchimp says:

    [quote comment="51506"][quote comment="51503"]It doesn’t even look like she is supposed to be in that picture. She is definitely watching![/quote]
    Also-remember Desmond’s story to Ruth? He looked up to sky, asked God for guidance, then doesn’t remember anything until waking up in middle of street, where the monk asked to help him. He is then “kept” at the abbey-and fired at the first “screw-up”. HMMM, perhaps a manipulation to keep him and steer him toward Penny-and his destiny? I know, major conspiracy theory-but it is Lost afterall.[/quote]

    Yea, I’m glad you bring up his conversation with his old fiance. I had to go back and watch it a second time–it’s somewhat confusing. Also, it brings to mind, seemingly on purpose, the manner in which Desmond woke up after falling in Penny’s apartment. That time, though, he actually knew he was time traveling. This time, it seems as if he just woke up drunk in a gutter and was offered assistance from the monk. Is this the work of something sinister (i.e., Dharma, Others, Mrs Hawking, etc), or something religious in nature? Both??

  80. Bobbi says:

    Exactly superchimp, seems soooo cheesy of the Monk’s lecture while he fired Desmond, about what path he is on, and where he is headed, what his future holds, etc. Maybe it is for effect, but I’d like to think that it’s part of something BIGGER.

  81. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="51490"]could the girl possibly be desmonds daughter? How could she be desmonds daughter?Because shes from the future.[/quote]

    a little to far out there, if u ask me.

    desmond is totally & completely NOT evil. he’s the only person on the show who’s flashbacks show that his life has been sadder than a country song from beginning to now.

  82. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51515"][quote comment="51490"]could the girl possibly be desmonds daughter? How could she be desmonds daughter?Because shes from the future.[/quote]

    a little to far out there, if u ask me.

    desmond is totally & completely NOT evil. he’s the only person on the show who’s flashbacks show that his life has been sadder than a country song from beginning to now.[/quote]

    If she were his daughter, then it would mean he gets off island and has a daughter. So why would she travel back and rescue him? And why would she call him Desmond, and not Dad?

  83. Superchimp says:

    I think it definitely is, which would be the point of Mrs Hawking in the picture. It’s got to be–we just don’t know the extent of her influence. Or, in other words, we have only some of the puzzle pieces and no picture on the front of the box…

  84. Superchimp says:

    [quote comment="51517"]I think it definitely is, which would be the point of Mrs Hawking in the picture. It’s got to be–we just don’t know the extent of her influence. Or, in other words, we have only some of the puzzle pieces and no picture on the front of the box…[/quote]

    (I meant that the monk and the flashback was part of something bigger).

  85. avalanche says:

    i think the reason we never get the monk’s name is that he is jacob. that is why he and the woman are in the picture. they are equals or on the same team or some such.

  86. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51517"]I think it definitely is, which would be the point of Mrs Hawking in the picture. It’s got to be–we just don’t know the extent of her influence. Or, in other words, we have only some of the puzzle pieces and no picture on the front of the box…[/quote]
    I need to go back and watch the episode of her in the jewelry store-tomorrow, i’m tired. But, doesn’t she use the term ‘we’ in that episode? As if she is part of a group of people? I dunno, i’m getting tired, so I tend to get things mixed up and start overthinking.

  87. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51519"]i think the reason we never get the monk’s name is that he is jacob. that is why he and the woman are in the picture. they are equals or on the same team or some such.[/quote]

    oooh very interesting

  88. FMGreenSteve says:

    For the love of God people…READ the comments BEFORE posting a new comment. It’s right there, above the entry box, rule #1!

    In other news, Kate looked better tonight than in any previous episode, ever. Two thumbs up.

    It was a very exciting episode indeed. I wonder if there is any significance to Hurley and Jin being the other two people in Desmonds flashes. Or, if there is a reason the writers have temporarily removed both of those characters from the beach.

    Did no one else on the beach hear a helicopter approaching? That seems odd, the island isn’t THAT big.

    Anyway, hopefully I won’t come back here in the morning to 200 duplicate comments…but I’m sure I will.

  89. Superchimp says:

    I’ve got an interesting idea bouncing around in my head, not sure how it works or would fit in, but…

    The main theme of tonight’s show was sacrifice–Desmond sacrificing his happiness for some future greater good, which happens to be on the island. Also mentioned, as a parallel, was Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac on the mountain to God as a test of his faith. Ultimately, God tells Abraham not to sacrifice his son and that he has proven his faith. This directly links into Desmond’s current situation–he is Abraham to Charlie, who is Isaac. Desmond has been told that Charlie is supposed to die and he’s supposed to sacrifice him to some sort of higher power. Yet he keeps interfering or, for lack of a better analogy, acting as God. However, as we know, the universe has a way of course correcting itself. Perhaps Charlie was meant to die in the Hatch and Desmond is merely delaying the inevitable…

    OK, tired ramblings. That’s probably enough.

  90. FMGreenSteve says:

    Also, the Catch-22 in this episode was clearly that Desmond was damned if he let Charlie die…and damned if didn’t let him die and he saved him – and once again altered the series of events that could be bringing him back to Penny. It’s a no-win situation, as the outcome of either decision was in direct conflict with the opposite decision.

  91. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51521"][quote comment="51519"]i think the reason we never get the monk’s name is that he is jacob. that is why he and the woman are in the picture. they are equals or on the same team or some such.[/quote]

    oooh very interesting[/quote]

    Then that lady could be his wife or something. They must have powers right? How does that woman travel in time and know it unless she is some sort of higher being…we already know Jacob is also. Well I think he is??

  92. lost chicka says:

    yeah, looks like Kate finally had a shower. yah! they might not wash spoons before using em again but they can shower. i was beginning to wonder if she’d given up on personal hygene.

    good to know that at least Bernard is still on the island apparently.

    i know, 2 completley useless comments.

  93. DocH says:

    WOW – I can’t belive they threw another ‘filler’ epidode at us, so close to the end of the season… (KIDDING!)… another great story in the saga has unfolded. Who would have thought that Charlie took a harpoon in the throat in the first 5 minutes? Kate & Sawyer hooking-up, Jack & Juliet bonding, Des, Chaz, Hugo & Jin on a Scout Jamboree hike (Des as the senior patrol leader). I like the fact that the Boy Scouts marching up the beach were whistling the “Bridge on the River Kwai” song (Colonel Boogie March???). The Kwai story was about imprisoned WWII allies deep in the SE Asia (burma?) jungles – they built their RR bridge for the japanese war effort – but new that their efforts would be to no avail – it was a great bridge and a source of pride and honor – but knew it would be a major target and eventually destroyed. That same sense of pending fate reminded me of the march to the underground cable/wire running up the beach… no matter what the mission – it was all for naught.

  94. DocH says:

    [quote comment="51425"]That old woman from the jewelry shop who Desmond met, the one who didn’t want him to buy the ring? She was in the picture on the boss monk’s desk…=][/quote]
    I thought so too. But… who was the old dude in the picture with her? More questions about bible references… the gal Des left was Ruth… important reference – the story the boss monk gave Des was about Mariah and Isaac/Isiah – important?

  95. froggirl says:

    Maybe Desmonds “test” goes the other way–Let me see if I can explain this. Perhaps saving Charlie was the right thing to do. The test was would Des sacrifice a life to see Penny again. The answer was no, so he passed, and everything is how it should be.

    Whoever mentioned Charlie being saved from the elements–intersting!! Maybe since he’s been saved from them all, the universe will give up. :)

  96. lost chicka says:

    the whole episode was pretty much who will desmond choose? charlie, his friend or penny, his girl. he chose to save charlie, but obviously still isn’t over penny. i know u don’t just fall outa love, but come on it’s been 3 years brother! move on!

  97. DocH says:

    LOST-Dog-Vincent wrote in LostHatch.com http://losthatch.com/forums/forums/thread/1945.aspx
    re Catch-22

    “It’s about a man involved in flying bomb runs in World War 2 who has asked a doctor friend if there’s a way out of it. He replies that one must be grounded if insane, but must also request to be grounded.

    “There was only one catch, and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn’t want to he was sane and had to.”

    There are more similar situations throughout the book put under the category of Catch-22, but this one comes with a nice little explanation, don’t you think? My interpretation of the phrase is that a Catch-22 situation gives you the illusion of options, when you really have only one choice. That you think that you can get away with doing what you want, when “the man” is just going to trick you out of it… This week’s should be a good one, if this is the case! :)”

    I replied “I can offer a more simplistic account, That is “vicious circle”. Whatever the question, the Options you have always steer you back around to where you started. Certain questions may require several answers to drive you around the circle, but ultimately you always return to your original dilemna.”

    My Q? here (after seeing the episode) WHAT THE HECK WAS THE CATCH-22 tonight?

  98. Erin says:

    [quote comment="51481"][quote comment="51474"]-sawyer seems very open to being used to maybe/possibly make jack jealous
    [/quote]
    As long as he gets to have sex with Kate, I don’t think he cares what the reason is.[/quote]

    I disagree. I think he’s definitely in love with her. He’s just putting up a front to protect himself.

  99. Other 218 says:

    Table Tennis Question? Sawyer wins 21-19; – Jacko says “best two out of three”… we never see another point after that – Who won? Did they play anymore? Did the loser/winner get Kate/Juliet?

  100. Other 218 says:

    re: Sawyer/Kate/Jack triangle: Three Dog Night song comes to my mind (yes – I am an old hippie). “If you can’t be with the one you love – love the one you’re with”. Kate perspective = “If you cant be with the one you love (Jack) – love the one you’re with (Sawyer).”
    Good to see Sawyer getting (as opposed to making) a booty call.

  101. Other 218 says:

    All this talk about the color ‘red’ (comment 23 & 32). Is this some sort of shout out to movie god M. Night Shyamalan (sic?), who uses ‘red’ as his signature “I’m telling you something important” gimmick (Sixth Sense, et. al)?

    GOOGLE “M. Night red”

  102. Eng says:

    102 comments in 9 minutes ? ! Great !

  103. LOSTmycontact says:

    All you guys are wrong, I saw Robocop in the picture on the head monk’s desk. Robocop is behind the whole thing, he’s conspiring with Captain Crunch

  104. Timmerdog says:

    This is great just “talking” about this show. Some of the points that come to mind are the “Red” items; this reminds me of the “red” items used as markers in The sixth sense.

    Bubble protecting the island? how do they get the air drops in.

    Chopper – Most don’t have a great range, and what type requires oxygen (hose on helmet)

    Jack “sleeping in his own bed” comment. Is that why they don’t get of the beach and go and live in the Barracks, safely behind the fence.

    Wasn’t Kate washin’ herself in the drinking water.

  105. Timmerdog says:

    Oxygen mask in a chopper would be for high flight and therefore within radar track? Short range of chopper might mean a support ship. The pilot landed inland and the chopper out to sea, therefore the flight path was over the island, this maybe why the rest of the castaways didn’t hear it (over the trees) Now the doll in the grass skirt. was there not one in the twin engine drug plane from west Africa?

  106. chewap says:

    the chick from the jewelry store is maybe penny in the future…lol

  107. Found says:

    Been reading for a week or so…first time posting.
    This episode was Desmonds “Test of Faith”… and he passed. He sacrificed what he wanted his vision to be about; that Penny was the parachutist, to save Charlie once again. He thought that if he did’t let events happen as in his vision and allow Charlie to be “sacrificed” so that they might be “saved”, that it would change the outcome of the vision.
    It would have been just the opposite. He was supposed to save Charlie or the rest of the vision would not have played out correctly. In his vision just after charlie died, the last flashed showed Charlie holding the parachute to catch the parachutist. I’m sure that if he had let Charlie die, they never would have continued to look for the parachutist, at least not all of them. Desmond doesn’t reailize that his personal sacrifice is for the greater good. As in God sending an Angel to stop Abraham from sacrificing Issac at the last second, so that God could provide a better way for Him (Them) to be saved. I believe that Desmond’s destiny is that the “plan of salvation” of the Lostie’s, and maybe the world, comes through him, as it did in the Bible through Abraham.

  108. Choppa'Piloto says:

    [quote comment="51547"] Chopper – Most don’t have a great range, and what type requires oxygen (hose on helmet). Wasn’t Kate washin’ herself in the drinking water.[/quote]
    ———
    True on helo range – most unrefueled helos are about 2 hours total or about 120NM out/then back. The helo was likely ship-based (if they are truly in the S. Pacific).
    The helmet (USAF-55P) is for frequent flight above 1OK MSL, definitely above occasional flight 14K MSL. Parachutist Naomi may not have been the pilot. She likely bailed-out as the helo was failing. Wind currents drove her inland well away from the helo crash site about 2NM offshore.
    Pilots of helos rarely successfully parachute out the crashing helo – as the autorotative descent of the helo normally exceeds the descent rate of the initial descent rate of a parachutist entering freefall flight (think Bass-O-Matic).
    As far a what Kate was bathing in – who cares – she could bathe in my drinking water anyday [THAT is how you know I am a real helo pilot (SOF/CSAR)] hua!

  109. russdogg says:

    Whew, thats a lot of posts! Can I throw my few bizarre findings into the mix?

    1- the other book that fell out of the pack was wrapped in a plastic bag. The bag has “Nutra Fruit” written on the side.

    2- the book in the plastic bag is only shown from the back, but it appears to be titled “Beef Stew”.

    3- Hurley’s satellite phone has no branding or buttons; it’s all touch-screen. My first thought was iPhone, haha. But then I realized the icon for Home on the screen is the exact icon for home used in the Mac OS…

    Just some random stuff I noticed…

  110. adriennez says:

    Great episode…it always feels like Des is such a key to the overall story of the whole island and how things work there. Sawyer’s quick little one-liners were hilarious! There has got to be some connection with all of the Bible references…Abraham and Isaac, Isaac being the father of twin sons(one “good” and one “bad”)Jacob and Esau, new characters Ruth and Naomi in the same episode…

    Here’s a thought…I wonder if the old jewelry store lady in the photo on the head monk’s desk, could be Penny from the future…maybe she time travels like Des does? It did seem really wierd that he even had this picture on his desk…and he does know Penny…I guess the Widmore Corp. buys the wine from the monks for charity?

  111. Lesley says:

    Another great ep! I get the impression that the parachutist dropped out of a different mode of air transportation from a high altitude (like the supply drop). She had a breathing device/tube that implies high altitude right? Perhaps the heli was a decoy to fool the others but allow her to land on the island. What if the heli was also dropped and contains some supplies? I think the pack was hers and she lost possession during descent. The question is whether someone else was in the heli and whether they can get the sat phone operational. Love eveyone’s thoughts.

  112. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51538"][quote comment="51481"][quote comment="51474"]-sawyer seems very open to being used to maybe/possibly make jack jealous
    [/quote]
    As long as he gets to have sex with Kate, I don’t think he cares what the reason is.[/quote]

    I disagree. I think he’s definitely in love with her. He’s just putting up a front to protect himself.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I realize he’s in love with her, but I still think he’s a very willing participant, considering they’ve been on the island for 3 months or so, and considering the following comment, with which I whole-heartedly agree.

    [quote comment="51522"]
    In other news, Kate looked better tonight than in any previous episode, ever. Two thumbs up.
    [/quote]

  113. sue says:

    Did Sawyyer mention Phil Collins as a reference to Genesis where the story of Abraham and Issac happens? Loved the wine being labeled from Mt Moriah!!

  114. THE LOST KING says:

    It was a decent episode. The parachutist who like ”hurley’s dad” said is called naomi is probably here on behalf of penny.

  115. WhoKnows says:

    [quote comment="51594"]Another great ep! I get the impression that the parachutist dropped out of a different mode of air transportation from a high altitude (like the supply drop). She had a breathing device/tube that implies high altitude right? Perhaps the heli was a decoy to fool the others but allow her to land on the island.[/quote]

    Maybe she knew Desmond had been on the island all the time (pushing the button) while making the supply drops, and is why she said his name at the end of the episode.

  116. Jocco says:

    this show is pretty gay

  117. NICK says:

    All I know, is that if Ben does not have 4 toes on each foot I’m going to be pissed off.

  118. zuzdog says:

    This is a small thing but I’m almost positive it happened (I haven’t double checked yet).

    In Desmond’s visions the “pilot” hanging in the tree wears different boots (big brown boots) than the “pilot” they found after Desmond saves Charlie (smaller black boots). I’m wondering since Desmond saves Charlie did those action change who he found. (not Penny)

    Once again I haven’t double checked this. Just bugging me.

  119. Hammer says:

    I think this episode stregthens my theory that Dez is the key character that Lost is about. I’m not sure yet what his “mission” is, but he’s the key. I feel that most of the characters were directed to the island and are being tested, but Dez is the one that is truly good and moral and “passing” his tests. As he puts his puzzle together, so goes Lost.

  120. Fluca says:

    [quote comment="51619"]This is a small thing but I’m almost positive it happened (I haven’t double checked yet).

    In Desmond’s visions the “pilot” hanging in the tree wears different boots (big brown boots) than the “pilot” they found after Desmond saves Charlie (smaller black boots). I’m wondering since Desmond saves Charlie did those action change who he found. (not Penny)

    Once again I haven’t double checked this. Just bugging me.[/quote]

    Nope, same boots.
    cheers

  121. Tasha says:

    I know this has been mentioned about the puzzles, but I have to comment! I DO those puzzles and when Des was talking about them I started to laugh. Honestly I have had to cheat because I never know how the pieces fit together!

    Kind of like he makes Charlie cheat death.

    That is way off I know!

  122. Meg says:

    [quote comment="51423"]I think it was his girlfriend of 6 years that he left to become a monk.[/quote]
    I know this has nothing to do with lost, more with the blog, but anyway, there’s already a Meg. Pick a new name. I know I don’t post that often, but still, NEW NAME!!

  123. Andre says:

    Could someone answer that question? How the hell do you know that poor girl’s name is Naomi ?

  124. Kevin says:

    Best line: “So, you guys discussing who your favorite Other is?” lol. Sawyer rules.

  125. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51629"]Could someone answer that question? How the hell do you know that poor girl’s name is Naomi ?[/quote]
    Can’t…it’s a spoiler.

  126. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51629"]Could someone answer that question? How the hell do you know that poor girl’s name is Naomi ?[/quote]

    It’s in lostpedia plus I think the producers told us.

  127. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51633"][quote comment="51629"]Could someone answer that question? How the hell do you know that poor girl’s name is Naomi ?[/quote]

    It’s in lostpedia plus I think the producers told us.[/quote]

    OOPS

  128. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51629"]Could someone answer that question? How the hell do you know that poor girl’s name is Naomi ?[/quote]
    See comment #38

  129. Jocco says:

    Please disregard that comment! My computer was Shanghied! I love Lost!

  130. Matt says:

    “That doesn’t sound like a helicopter”

    I thought the helicopter sounded like smokey. Are we sure that it was a helicopter? Could it have been taken down by smokey?

    Someone had mentioned before that the island could be Jacob, perhaps Locke and Ben are Isaac and Esau (one brother stealing the others “blessing”).

  131. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51629"]Could someone answer that question? How the hell do you know that poor girl’s name is Naomi ?[/quote]
    Can’t…it’s a spoiler.[quote comment="51636"]Please disregard that comment! My computer was Shanghied! I love Lost![/quote]
    I thought someone just stole your name, that was the first time “you” posted something like that.

  132. Toeknee says:

    I’ll have to rewatch this episode to confirm this, but…..

    If I recall correctly, during Desmond’s flashes/visions about what was going to happen, in one of those flashes you could hear someone saying something like “the beacon is on this side of the island.” But I don’t recall anyone saying that when the events were playing out in “real” time.

    How would Desmond know about the beacon? I believe the only other time we’ve heard it mentioned is when Locke, Sayid, and Kate visited Mikhail.

    Is there significance to the fact that this line wasn’t said by anyone during “real” time? Is Desmond having visions of a different set of events yet to play out?

  133. Adrian says:

    [quote comment="51565"]Whew, thats a lot of posts! Can I throw my few bizarre findings into the mix?

    1- the other book that fell out of the pack was wrapped in a plastic bag. The bag has “Nutra Fruit” written on the side.

    2- the book in the plastic bag is only shown from the back, but it appears to be titled “Beef Stew”.

    3- Hurley’s satellite phone has no branding or buttons; it’s all touch-screen. My first thought was iPhone, haha. But then I realized the icon for Home on the screen is the exact icon for home used in the Mac OS…

    Just some random stuff I noticed…[/quote]
    Commint on your commint number 2. Its not a bok, its part of an MRE food packadge. Beef Stew was one of my favs when I was in the military.
    Someone earlier posted that the sat phone wasnt working, yes it is, its just out of jiuce, which is hard to believe considering she was more than likely carrying it to communicate with whome ever sent her to lood for Des. Why take a Sat Phone with no charge? I know people sometimes forget to charge their cel phones, but this had all the markings of a military mission. And all though Im not a Helo Pilot, that sounded like a Black Hawk off in the distance. There are no Black Hawks in the civilian world. Only military and government agencies. All though I could be wrong.

  134. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51637"]“That doesn’t sound like a helicopter”

    I thought the helicopter sounded like smokey. Are we sure that it was a helicopter? Could it have been taken down by smokey?

    Someone had mentioned before that the island could be Jacob, perhaps Locke and Ben are Isaac and Esau (one brother stealing the others “blessing”).[/quote]

    My husband was saying the SAME thing! I told him he was nuts but then read your comment. Well I don’t think he said it sounded like Smokey but maybe he did. But he said it looked like Smokey in the clouds and I was like, it’s JUST CLOUDS.

    Then I said, Smokey can’t even jump over a 10 foot fence, much less go in the sky over the ocean.

  135. Lindsey says:

    Do we know Mrs. Hawking’s first name? Could it perhaps be Rebecca? Going along with the whole Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Ruth, Naomi thing?

    Just curious. Sorry if this comment has come thru before, I don’t get to read often and you people post comments so quickly that they pile up before they can be read thru.

  136. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51642"]I’ll have to rewatch this episode to confirm this, but…..

    If I recall correctly, during Desmond’s flashes/visions about what was going to happen, in one of those flashes you could hear someone saying something like “the beacon is on this side of the island.” But I don’t recall anyone saying that when the events were playing out in “real” time.

    How would Desmond know about the beacon? I believe the only other time we’ve heard it mentioned is when Locke, Sayid, and Kate visited Mikhail.

    Is there significance to the fact that this line wasn’t said by anyone during “real” time? Is Desmond having visions of a different set of events yet to play out?[/quote]

    They talk about a beacon a couple of times in real time.

  137. Tasha says:

    Okay so I am watching it and I see what some others posted about when Hurley says the word “Flash” and something blue flashes on his face. Is there a reason for this that anyone figured out? Just the camera crew filming in rain? It does seem a little ironic.

  138. Bizzy says:

    Carlton and Damon need a military advisor for this series!

    Thanks to the commenters here who cleared up the beef stew book question, and exiting a disabled helicopter.

    And that undersized sub that Locke either did or didn’t blow up looked like a pool toy.

    If parachick was suspended by the shroud lines in the trees, why was she unconscious?

    She was using a round canopy, looked like a T-10, considering that the sound of the helicopter was coming from way offshore, how did she make it onto the island? Most likely, she would’ve landed in the ocean.

    Gilligan’s Island had better props.

  139. AnotherOther says:

    Awesome episode. I was playing with Google Maps and The Numbers. No new news, but check it out if you want…

    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&z=2&om=1&msid=101864128407767405904.000001120a54278295361&msa=0

  140. Meg says:

    [quote comment="51662"]Carlton and Damon need a military advisor for this series!

    Thanks to the commenters here who cleared up the beef stew book question, and exiting a disabled helicopter.

    And that undersized sub that Locke either did or didn’t blow up looked like a pool toy.

    If parachick was suspended by the shroud lines in the trees, why was she unconscious?

    She was using a round canopy, looked like a T-10, considering that the sound of the helicopter was coming from way offshore, how did she make it onto the island? Most likely, she would’ve landed in the ocean.

    Gilligan’s Island had better props.[/quote]
    First off, who says this episode was military? And she could’ve been knocked out a shield around the island, or by whatever cause her helicopter to go down. Maybe you should be more open minded and stop complaining about the show.

  141. Timmerdog says:

    [quote comment="51617"]All I know, is that if Ben does not have 4 toes on each foot I’m going to be pissed off.[/quote]
    If Ben was born on the island how is it that other mothers can’t survive

  142. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51668"][quote comment="51617"]All I know, is that if Ben does not have 4 toes on each foot I’m going to be pissed off.[/quote]
    If Ben was born on the island how is it that other mothers can’t survive[/quote]

    Multiple choice:
    1)Ben lied about being born on the island.
    2)The problem is recent.
    3)Ben lied about being born on the island. ;)

  143. Meg says:

    Ben never actually said he was BORN on the island, just that he lived on it all his life. He may have been born somewhere else and went to the island at a very young age.

  144. MasterPo says:

    Regarding the helicopter girl:

    1) I totally agree with the person above that if the chopper (assuming it was a chopper) was coming in from over the ocean, if she bailed out she probably would have landed in the water, not on land much less so far in land.

    Unless….she bailed out much further away, before they heard the helo. The chopper might already have been going down long before they heard it. Then again, helos aren’t high altitude vehicles.

    2). The clothes she was wearing IMO aren’t characteristic of a helo pilot.

    She was in a jump suit that looked more like a jet pilot’s suit.

    She had an oxygen mask on. Helo’s don’t/can’t fly high enough to need O2 (as I understand them).

    Her helmet was also more fighter/military like than a helo pilot.

    3) It’s also very possible she is just one more hapless victim of the island, coming here who-knows-how just like the Losties, the beach plane, the balloon, the Black Rock, etc.

  145. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51669"][quote comment="51668"][quote comment="51617"]All I know, is that if Ben does not have 4 toes on each foot I’m going to be pissed off.[/quote]
    If Ben was born on the island how is it that other mothers can’t survive[/quote]

    Multiple choice:
    1)Ben lied about being born on the island.
    2)The problem is recent.
    3)Ben lied about being born on the island. ;)[/quote]
    _________________________
    Or
    4) Women who conceive off of the island do not die (e.g., Rousseau, Claire). So perhaps Ben’s mother conceived off-island.

  146. Timmerdog says:

    [quote comment="51665"]Awesome episode. I was playing with Google Maps and The Numbers. No new news, but check it out if you want…

    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&z=2&om=1&msid=101864128407767405904.000001120a54278295361&msa=0%5B/quote%5D

    I was wondering if location could be a wild card as it seems that such things as a twin engine from west africa as well as an old wooden ship in the jungle might very well have been brought, maybe even the airline came to the island in the same way.

  147. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51672"]Ben never actually said he was BORN on the island, just that he lived on it all his life. He may have been born somewhere else and went to the island at a very young age.[/quote]
    Actually he did say he was born on the island, in “The Man From Tallahassee”

  148. Meg says:

    [quote comment="51677"][quote comment="51672"]Ben never actually said he was BORN on the island, just that he lived on it all his life. He may have been born somewhere else and went to the island at a very young age.[/quote]
    Actually he did say he was born on the island, in “The Man From Tallahassee”[/quote]
    Oh, well, haha, just joking then. I only got to watch that ep once.

  149. Hammer says:

    Master Po- Agree with everything except her just being another victim. She knows who Dez is. That’s enough for me to think that Penn and the look out guys sent her on a mission. Which means for a least a short time, the island’s time/location was exposed..and now found.

    I had a theory I posted here long time ago that the island’s location was exposed when Dez turned the key and that is would be left exposed until the key gets turned back. It seems that this might be true, but that the system that was turned off wasn’t protecting” the island but just hiding it. This new woman’s vehicle was brought down even though she knew where to go. So now that we can theorize that you actually can come the island, does the island’s protection system ensure that you cannot get off (without Ben’s permission?).

  150. Get Lost says:

    [quote comment="51438"]Actually, it was a three way tie on posting about the pic. But the odd thing was that the photo was b/w, but the time lady was in color.[/quote]
    I’m not so sure that the photo is black&white. If you look behind ring lady you can see green grass. What I think is weird is that it looks photoshop’ed. Don’t ring lady and chief monk look pasted on to a backround?

  151. Meg says:

    [quote comment="51680"][quote comment="51438"]Actually, it was a three way tie on posting about the pic. But the odd thing was that the photo was b/w, but the time lady was in color.[/quote]
    I’m not so sure that the photo is black&white. If you look behind ring lady you can see green grass. What I think is weird is that it looks photoshop’ed. Don’t ring lady and chief monk look pasted on to a backround?[/quote]
    Again with repeating comments. Rule #1 about commenting, read ALL comments and DON’T repeat. This topic was discussed in the begining of the post.

  152. Wm I says:

    [quote comment="51498"]That’s it! They are all reliving the bible! History is repeating itself!

    I Love Desmond!![/quote]
    You could be on to something, way too many biblical refs to not be significant. Does anyone see an end to this show, an Armageddon ?

    Interesting that they followed the show about the time warp possibilities with a feature on Desmond and his visions of the future/past. Are Des and the Time Travel Lady from the jewelry store the only 2 who have existed in both eras (past=biblical times and future=parallel universe of present “real world”)?

  153. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51682"][quote comment="51498"]That’s it! They are all reliving the bible! History is repeating itself!

    I Love Desmond!![/quote]
    You could be on to something, way too many biblical refs to not be significant. Does anyone see an end to this show, an Armageddon ?

    Interesting that they followed the show about the time warp possibilities with a feature on Desmond and his visions of the future/past. Are Des and the Time Travel Lady from the jewelry store the only 2 who have existed in both eras (past=biblical times and future=parallel universe of present “real world”)?[/quote]
    No, Charlie was there too.

  154. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51678"][quote comment="51677"][quote comment="51672"]Ben never actually said he was BORN on the island, just that he lived on it all his life. He may have been born somewhere else and went to the island at a very young age.[/quote]
    Actually he did say he was born on the island, in “The Man From Tallahassee”[/quote]
    Oh, well, haha, just joking then. I only got to watch that ep once.[/quote]

    Really? I also thought he only said he lived on island all his life, not born. I’m gonna have to watch again

  155. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51680"][quote comment="51438"]Actually, it was a three way tie on posting about the pic. But the odd thing was that the photo was b/w, but the time lady was in color.[/quote]
    I’m not so sure that the photo is black&white. If you look behind ring lady you can see green grass. What I think is weird is that it looks photoshop’ed. Don’t ring lady and chief monk look pasted on to a backround?[/quote]

    Let’s say they were pasted LOL. Maybe that guy was in love with her and stalked her! Then put there pics together so it looks like they would be together. Makes no sense but stalking reminds me….

    and this is not part of the show….

    But God Bless VT.

  156. MasterPo says:

    Hammer – Another possibility:

    The air vehicle wasn’t a helo but an Osprey.

    The Osprey is a twin engine propeller plane used by the Marines (there is a civilian version too). The wings swivel so the engines point up for take off/landing like a helo, but then swivel horizontal for level flight like a prop plane.

    That could explain why she was dressed like a plane pilot.

  157. Tasha says:

    If it was a helo…could helos fly around the Pacific with limited fuel? Wouldn’t it have had to come from something else, like a ship of barge? Unless they aren’t far from another piece of land.

  158. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51684"][quote comment="51678"][quote comment="51677"][quote comment="51672"]Ben never actually said he was BORN on the island, just that he lived on it all his life. He may have been born somewhere else and went to the island at a very young age.[/quote]
    Actually he did say he was born on the island, in “The Man From Tallahassee”[/quote]
    Oh, well, haha, just joking then. I only got to watch that ep once.[/quote]

    Really? I also thought he only said he lived on island all his life, not born. I’m gonna have to watch again[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    No need to watch again (well, other than the fact that it was a great episode that bears repeated viewings).

    Read it here: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Man_from_Tallahassee_transcript

  159. Hammer says:

    Could be Master. I’m really not all that concerned with what type of aircraft it was. We all know that sometimes TV takes liscense to bend reality. I more want to know how she found the island and who she is since she know who Dez is.

  160. MKS says:

    I think it’s been pretty well established that being BORN on the island is not a problem. The problem is being CONCEIVED on the island. Ben never said he was conceived on the island.

  161. MasterPo says:

    [quote comment="51687"]If it was a helo…could helos fly around the Pacific with limited fuel? Wouldn’t it have had to come from something else, like a ship of barge? Unless they aren’t far from another piece of land.[/quote]

    Depending on the kind of helo, with spare tanks it could have a 200+ mile range. But to go to the extreme limit would be a one-way trip.

  162. MKS says:

    It seems that the Brazilian guys at the end of last season picked up a location/ signal and Penny send someone to that location. I think this goes once again with the theory that the island is located somewhere in a “loop-worm hole” near the South Pole. If the helo was flying near the Pole, the air would have been so cold that it would make sense for Naomi (btw, also Brazilian) to have a warm suit and oxygen mask on. But (as with our flight) as the helo “wormed” through the passage to our island, the helo broke up like the plane had. As far as her being carried so far inland, when the plane broke up it’s two halves traveled a long (unrealistic) distance from each other as well.

  163. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51690"]I think it’s been pretty well established that being BORN on the island is not a problem. The problem is being CONCEIVED on the island. Ben never said he was conceived on the island.[/quote]
    True, I think we wore this one out until we get a Ben flashback anyway.

  164. Hammer says:

    Here’s a thought. Why did the island shake when 815 was brought down but not when this aircraft was brought down?

    I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?

  165. Ricci says:

    Hi everyone I am new to this site. rEally have been enjoying all of the post here. Question: Who is Naomi? I don’t remember her.

  166. Tasha says:

    Doesn’t an explosion even in the air cause things to shake? I mean like I live in Texas and when the space shuttle exploded it shook a little and look how high that is? I mean could that have anything to do with the shaking?

  167. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51697"]Doesn’t an explosion even in the air cause things to shake? I mean like I live in Texas and when the space shuttle exploded it shook a little and look how high that is? I mean could that have anything to do with the shaking?[/quote]
    815 didn’t explode, it broke apart.

  168. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51696"]Hi everyone I am new to this site. rEally have been enjoying all of the post here. Question: Who is Naomi? I don’t remember her.[/quote]
    See comment #4, which was a response to comments #1, #2, and #3

  169. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51696"]Hi everyone I am new to this site. rEally have been enjoying all of the post here. Question: Who is Naomi? I don’t remember her.[/quote]
    Since you are new…please read the rules of posting before you post…then you will get your answer.

  170. katesFriend says:

    first, everyone seems to think that the parachuter (naomi,i guess) is from penny

    for me, it seems more likely that she is from the others, just sent in to see what’s up until they come back “next week”

    also, i really hope the whole series doesn’t end up being all about the bible

    some people ( i know, it’s hard to believe) don’t beleive in the bible, and this would be a total let down

    i don’t know if any of this is right, just some things i though during the ep

  171. Tasha says:

    Final Destination…Didn’t the plane break apart first? Anyhow, all the windows busted in the airport and the ground shook. I thought that one of the engines exploded on 815 that is why, if the engine exploded, why was it still running in the first episode.

  172. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51695"]Here’s a thought. Why did the island shake when 815 was brought down but not when this aircraft was brought down?

    I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?[/quote]
    I think the island shook that day because the button wasn’t pushed, and there was some release of the electromagnetic force. I don’t think the ground-shaking caused the crash of 815, and vice versa.

    I’m not sure what could have resulted in the helicopter (or whatever it was) being brought down. But despite what Ben said, it is apparently not impossible for someone to find/get to the island. In the last few years (island-time) Desmond did it, the Nigerian drug plane did it, Henry Gale did it, and now this woman did it.

  173. desmondo says:

    [quote comment="51698"]815 didn’t explode, it broke apart.[/quote]

    Actually, it was torn apart by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He has been orchestrating the whole thing.

    The island is one giant wormhole and the Brazilian girl is an alien sent from the future to save Aaron Littleton, who will one day command a human army as they fight in a battle of survival against a race of killer robots.

    There was totally a blue theme in this episode. Yeah I SAW it first. The water was blue. The sky was blue. Hurley’s shirt was blue. Sawyer’s balls were blue before Kate jumped him. The list goes on and on. Obviously blue has some giant importance to understanding this brilliant and complex story.

    Seriously, did anyone else notice the reference to Ab and Isaac. Whoa. It was totally subtle but I caught it. There is so much Christian bible stuff going down. Someone should try to crack the encryption.

    Crazy FSM. Got us again.

  174. herxanthikles says:

    Not to get all public health on y’all, but what the hell is Kate doing having presumably unprotected sex with Sawyer after hearing about how everyone who gets pregnant on the island dies? Geez…pregnancy as the ultimate STD. Maybe she doesn’t trust Juliet, but I wouldn’t want to take my chances, especially with a guy who’s been around like Sawyer. What exactly was the something that was “burning in Tallahasse, and it wasn’t from the sun” James, hm?

    On the other hand, a whole flashback sequence of Scottish accents is heavenly.

  175. Tasha says:

    Okay Hammer-how about Sound Waves from[quote comment="51695"]Here’s a thought. Why did the island shake when 815 was brought down but not when this aircraft was brought down?

    I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?[/quote]

    Okay, let’s say that the ground shaking did not happen when Des didn’t push the button….it could have been before hand that he didn’t push it.

    Then the plane was just crashed, then shockwaves would cause the ground to shake. Just the plane coming down so fast and and the noise can cause it, also shockwaves can travel back up so that could also cause the plane to fall apart if the plane is close enough. it’s hard to explain….It’s a physics thing and I haven’t taken it yet in college.

  176. Hammer says:

    ToeKnee – Your likely correct, maybe Dez being late with button was just a coincedence.

    I don’t remember Ben saying you can’t come to island, but that you cannot leave. It seems the island’s protection system is just that. If you stumble on it, you’re not leaving. And for a least a short time, the system that hid the island was disabled which is how Penn’s clan found it.

  177. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="51711"]ToeKnee – Your likely correct, maybe Dez being late with button was just a coincedence.
    [/quote]

    I only think that because, as you pointed out, that’s what D&C said. Prior to hearing that, I thought for sure Desmond not pushing the button is what brought the plane down

    [quote comment="51711"]
    I don’t remember Ben saying you can’t come to island, but that you cannot leave. [/quote]

    Maybe he didn’t say that you can’t come to the island, and he just said you can’t see it? I think at one point he said that even God can’t see the island.

  178. Choppa'Piloto says:

    [quote comment="51662"]If parachick was suspended by the shroud lines in the trees, why was she unconscious? She was using a round canopy, looked like a T-10, considering that the sound of the helicopter was coming from way offshore, how did she make it onto the island? Most likely, she would’ve landed in the ocean. Gilligan’s Island had better props.[/quote]I thought it was a round chute too, but a square chute has a better glide ratio than a round and that would get her farther insland. Remembering the stormy/windy conditions during the helo crash, it is possible she could have drifted that far insland in a round chute. Parachuting through trees (& powerlines) are the most dangerous landings jumpers typically face (landing on the side of a cliff is another). “forest penetration” landings have killed thousands over the years (WWII, V-Nam, etc…). Tree limbs/branches stab/poke/skewer the jumper as they go in. Eyes are gouged, jugulars are slit, arms/legs are broken. Then the unlucky jumper gets to hang there with the injury until they can get themselves out, or not. Some even unluckier jumpers get to hang there for awhile, injured, then freefall to the ground when their collapsed canopy gives way. In thick, multi-canopy jungles, the fall can be like from a 10 story building (SPLAT). I like the Gilligans Island reference. If only the Professor were here with his gadgets (oh yeah – Sayid – I forgot).

  179. Hammer says:

    Gotcha on the seeing it thing. But obviously that has changed per Penn’s clan.

  180. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    A question: If Des would have left the arrow kill Charlie would the parachutist have turned out to be Penny? But since Des changed the course of events at the last minute did Penny not show up and instead Naomi?? Were the flashes events in time changing? Great episode but so many questions.

  181. Rock says:

    [quote comment="51657"]Okay so I am watching it and I see what some others posted about when Hurley says the word “Flash” and something blue flashes on his face. Is there a reason for this that anyone figured out? Just the camera crew filming in rain? It does seem a little ironic.[/quote]

  182. Rock says:

    The blue flashes seem to be simply a “flare” into the lens. The cameraman was hand-holding the camera and accidently caught the main backlight in the lens.

  183. Geno says:

    [quote comment="51646"][quote comment="51637"]“That doesn’t sound like a helicopter”

    I thought the helicopter sounded like smokey. Are we sure that it was a helicopter? Could it have been taken down by smokey?

    Someone had mentioned before that the island could be Jacob, perhaps Locke and Ben are Isaac and Esau (one brother stealing the others “blessing”).[/quote]

    My husband was saying the SAME thing! I told him he was nuts but then read your comment. Well I don’t think he said it sounded like Smokey but maybe he did. But he said it looked like Smokey in the clouds and I was like, it’s JUST CLOUDS.

    Then I said, Smokey can’t even jump over a 10 foot fence, much less go in the sky over the ocean.[/quote]

    Can someone verify–I thought I heard the sound of the helicopter and another plane. Would explain how the girl ejected out.

  184. MasterPo says:

    The girl could have hit her head on a tree coming down through the branches. Or hit her head on part of the helo/plane. Or just the force of jumping/bailing out could have knocked her out. Anything is possible.

    S.E.T. – I don’t see how Charlie dying would have made her Penny. She was already on the island in the tree by the time Charlie would have died. Assuming a connection of events, Charlie’s death would have changed who was in the parachute. That even already happened.

  185. this episode was AWESOME!!!

    so…i’m not surprised that the chopper crashed since the electromagnetic field is so strong, but it seems that you think that Widmore would KNOW that…
    maybe she was just trying to make a statement and assumed that naomi wouldn’t survive.
    where are the others?
    and wouldn’t they know about the chopper?

  186. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51728"]S.E.T. – I don’t see how Charlie dying would have made her Penny. She was already on the island in the tree by the time Charlie would have died. Assuming a connection of events, Charlie’s death would have changed who was in the parachute. That even already happened.[/quote]
    I tend to agree. So far, we haven’t seen major implications from Dez saving Charlie. And so far, the only visions we are told about are of Charlie getting killed. We need to see if Dez is preventing other things from happening that are upsetting fate.

  187. Choppa'Piloto says:

    The sound was definitely that of a healthy helicopter (when it was healthy) and it sounded that it was at about 4000-5000 feet Above Sea Level. The sound of helo, when its engines were failing, sounded pretty accurate too. As far as the sound of a fixed-wing aircraft, I do not specifically remember hearing that, but will go back over the tape to see if I can. It must have been towards the very beginning of the helo noise – right?

  188. Bizzy says:

    Choppa: I’ve got hundreds of jumps on ram air (square) canopies and all types of rounds from back when that’s all there was available. I can’t believe the helicopter was higher than a couple of thousand feet, if they could hear it that distinctly from the beach. If parachick made an emergency exit, her canopy would be opening under 1500 feet. Even in a hurricane, no way could she travel that far. Plus, if you look at the scene, there are no large branches above her. What did she hit that would knock her out?

    This Lost is turning into a women’s show, like a regular soap opera. The Jack, Sayid, and Sawyer characters have been so feminized, they’re just doing whatever Juliet or Kate tells them to do. You’d think they had lobotomies or something worse. And, look at Desmond, he’s another puppy dog.

    I was waiting for Locke to straighten out Benry, and get some decent information about the island. What’s up with these guys?

  189. diane says:

    Since there is a lot of bible overtones how about the Sawyer and Jack’s score…21-19 as revelation 21:19? Just an idea to throw out there.

  190. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51669"][quote comment="51668"][quote comment="51617"]All I know, is that if Ben does not have 4 toes on each foot I’m going to be pissed off.[/quote]
    If Ben was born on the island how is it that other mothers can’t survive[/quote]

    Multiple choice:
    1)Ben lied about being born on the island.
    2)The problem is recent.
    3)Ben lied about being born on the island. ;)[/quote]
    4)Juliet lied about there being a problem

  191. [quote comment="51734"]
    This Lost is turning into a women’s show, like a regular soap opera. The Jack, Sayid, and Sawyer characters have been so feminized, they’re just doing whatever Juliet or Kate tells them to do. You’d think they had lobotomies or something worse. And, look at Desmond, he’s another puppy dog.
    [/quote]

    aw, biz… :P i think it was just an excuse to acknowledge that they all know that kate and sawyer boned, and more importantly, an excuse for the to do it again!!!

    i will agree about sawyer going soft tho…it seemed a little out-of-character for him to say “you don’t have to use me; all you have to do is ask.”

  192. Lostie39 says:

    [quote]
    Interestingly, biblically, Naomi is the mother of Ruth, like the book of Ruth. She was the only female judge. Ruth was the name of the girl that Desmond left to join the monastary.[/quote]

  193. Hammer says:

    [/quote]4)Juliet lied about there being a problem[/quote]
    There’s enough evidence that there is a problem and that at least one woman who conceived off the island was able to give birth.

  194. Lostie39 says:

    [quote]
    Interestingly, biblically, Naomi is the mother of Ruth, like the book of Ruth. She was the only female judge. Ruth was the name of the girl that Desmond left to join the monastary.[/quote]

    Just wanted to clear up two minor points — just in case they do become significant. Naomi was Ruth’s mother-in-law (Book of Ruth). Deborah was the only female Israel judge and was also a prophetess. (Judges 4 & 5)

  195. Joyce says:

    There are more similar situations throughout the book put under the category of Catch-22, but this one comes with a nice little explanation, don’t you think? My interpretation of the phrase is that a Catch-22 situation gives you the illusion of options, when you really have only one choice. That you think that you can get away with doing what you want, when “the man” is just going to trick you out of it… This week’s should be a good one, if this is the case! :)”

    I replied “I can offer a more simplistic account, That is “vicious circle”. Whatever the question, the Options you have always steer you back around to where you started. Certain questions may require several answers to drive you around the circle, but ultimately you always return to your original dilemna.”

    My Q? here (after seeing the episode) WHAT THE HECK WAS THE CATCH-22 tonight?

    —————

    Excellent question, DocH! I’d love to hear more on this.

    Giving the illusion that you have an option: Dez is being directed by some unknown force; he thinks he has options (marrying Ruth; being with Penny; pushing the button, etc.), but in reality he does not.

    Where was the Hula doll from? I know I’ve seen it on the show before. In the van Hurley found and got running?

    I think the Head Monk and time-travel lady Hawkings are mother and son, or at least in the same group of the Powers That Be (who is directing Dez on his current path).

    Who said Ben had a mother! When saying he was born on the island, it could have been from a petrey dish.

    Does “Smokey” appear just to those who have “blood on their hands”?

    do you think the Others have never seen Smokey, or was Juliette just faking it?

  196. Hammer says:

    I think the catch 22 of this ep. was Dez’s decision on saving Charlie. He would have to live with knowing he let someone die or lose his chance of being with Penn again. Seems obvious.

  197. Hammer says:

    Good catch on the Hula doll. Explains why Hugo was the one to find it and his reaction…now why was it there?

  198. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51744"]Good catch on the Hula doll. Explains why Hugo was the one to find it and his reaction…now why was it there?[/quote]

    yeah, but doesn’t he say “who’s is that?” or something to that effect? As if it isn’t the same one?

  199. bluebird says:

    [quote comment="51680"][quote comment="51438"]Actually, it was a three way tie on posting about the pic. But the odd thing was that the photo was b/w, but the time lady was in color.[/quote]
    I’m not so sure that the photo is black&white. If you look behind ring lady you can see green grass. What I think is weird is that it looks photoshop’ed. Don’t ring lady and chief monk look pasted on to a backround?[/quote]
    Doesn’t ring lady/monk picture remind you of the Penny/Desmond picture that Desmond carries and also found in the Catch 22 book? Desmond and Penny stood in front of a fake background when that pic was taken…is that what makes ring lady/monk pic look photoshopped?
    I’ve been reading for awhile. This is my first comment.

  200. Bobbi says:

    bluebird-That’s interesting. Was the day Dez met Hawkings at the jewelry store, the same day he and Penny took that cheesy background pic? If so, might make sense. Hawkings is wearing the same thing in pic as the day in jewelry store. Perhaps she and the monk were following Dez around to make sure that he fulfills his destiny of leaving penny to go to island. (I know the pic is on the desk before he even meets Penny, but time seems to be a factor of Lost.)

  201. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    That’s the catch 22 I was talking about. If Des saves Charlie he loses Penny. So are we to believe that if he would have left Charlie die Penny would have been the parachutist? I still don’t get how the copter crashes so far out at sea but she falls into the trees on the island. It’s not like they heard it flying overhead.

  202. Jones says:

    [quote comment="51708"]Not to get all public health on y’all, but what the hell is Kate doing having presumably unprotected sex with Sawyer after hearing about how everyone who gets pregnant on the island dies? Geez…pregnancy as the ultimate STD. Maybe she doesn’t trust Juliet, but I wouldn’t want to take my chances, especially with a guy who’s been around like Sawyer. What exactly was the something that was “burning in Tallahasse, and it wasn’t from the sun” James, hm?

    On the other hand, a whole flashback sequence of Scottish accents is heavenly.[/quote]

    I thought the same thing. I wondered if Sawyer just had condoms in his stash.

  203. ro-zgee says:

    What’s with the people in Des’ past who are clearly trying to shove him in a particular direction. First it was the ring lady, then the brother. (Well in real time I guess it was first the brother, then the ring lady!)
    I’m wondering if Mr Widmore was doing that as well – that his opinion of Des as a son-in-law had nothing to do with how he treated him, he was just trying to influence him in his path toward the island, and to do great things. Putting the pressure on Des to be a “great man” to deserve Pen would also help push him to push the button, save Charlie, and whatever else he will be tested to do in the future. So my feeling is Widmore is more concerned with Des accomplishing his destiny than any future he might have (or not!) with his daughter.
    Also, I agree Des is an important character, but also wonder how this fits into what we’ve heard about him from the writers. He wasn’t initially going to be a main character, but was brought back and his character expanded -if I’m remembering correctly. So my guess is he’s used to illustrate some vital mythology of the island, but will not be essential to the ultimate reveal of the main story.Your thoughts?

  204. Bobbi says:

    I’m wondering about the parachutist being in jungle too. But maybe it is possible, because of this….The island isn’t completely circle obviously-so perhaps the red flash seemed over water from where the Losties were standing, but perhaps she was more over the land than we think, maybe the land juts out down the beach a bit (i’m having a hard time explaining what i mean) The helicopter could have continued just a little bit further out, toward sea as it fell. Also, how long were they marching into jungle? It might not have been that far, afterall they did decide to wait until light.

  205. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51749"]That’s the catch 22 I was talking about. If Des saves Charlie he loses Penny. So are we to believe that if he would have left Charlie die Penny would have been the parachutist?[/quote]

    No, the catch-22 is what Des thought it would be. “If the flashes don’t happen exactly how I saw them, the picture changes.”

    The catch-22 to Des was let Charlie die and see the parachutest, or save Charlie and change the “picture”. (i.e. not find the parachutest)

    The parachutest was already on the island. It couldn’t have ever been Penny.

  206. Hammer says:

    ro-zgee – Some of us discussed this last season that Dez (along with most of the characters) was steered to the island. It seems that we are now finding out why he was(to make sure “something” happens), and still wondering why the rest are here.

  207. Bobbi says:

    I’m just saying that the guys knew exactly which direction to look for her, even though Dez saw it in visions the others didnt hesitate or really disagree that they were headed in wrong direction-they obviously thought that the parachutist fell inland. I didn’t hear any of them say that she would be in the water.

  208. Oliver says:

    What kinda creeps me out is Jack’s facial expression in the last two episodes, this indifference of him. I think he’s hiding something, might be wrong, though. Also, I thought, this would be the episode where Charlie is going to die. Fortunately Desmond made the right decision. Yes, and that picture on the monk’s desk, where you could see the clock Lady for some seconds, reminded me on the first movie of the Back to the future triology when the relatives of Michael J Fox’ character slowly vanished on the picture he had with him.
    I know that clock Lady played in the movie The Others one of the ghost. Now that’s a nice reference as well. I almost expected her to disappear from the photo, as like she would have been only recognizable for us audience, hehe.

  209. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    But Dez clearly thought it was Penny right up until he pulled the helmet off. Then he was shocked it wasn’t her. Maybe I’m really confused about this. I’ll go watch it again.

  210. Bobbi says:

    Oliver-he’s creeping me out too, seems different lately. If he was so concerned about protecting Juliet, why would he just go get firewood with Kate (last week’s episode) and leave Juliet with Sayid? And the look he gives Juliet as if they both knew she would be questioned by Sayid. I’m not saying he is an Other now, but perhaps he’s been manipulated to play a part of a “plan” that they have. I have talked the issue to death-but I still HATE the point that he was still unconscious the next day when Kate and Juliet got back to Otherville.

  211. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51758"]But Dez clearly thought it was Penny right up until he pulled the helmet off. Then he was shocked it wasn’t her. Maybe I’m really confused about this. I’ll go watch it again.[/quote]

    I tend to agree with Hurley’s Dad, I don’t see how it could have changed her identity. Yes, he THOUGHT it would be Penny-be he says himself that he doesn’t see the whole pic, he just say glimpses of the pic of them together-and ASSUMED it would be her. I think she’s behind the rescue mission, but I think he just a little too hopeful that it would be her in person.

  212. [quote comment="51758"]But Dez clearly thought it was Penny right up until he pulled the helmet off. Then he was shocked it wasn’t her. Maybe I’m really confused about this. I’ll go watch it again.[/quote]
    i think he only thought it was her because he saw her face in one of the flashes.
    but like he said, he doesn’t really know what the picture will be…especially now that he intervened with the flash of charlie dying.

  213. Bizzy says:

    [quote comment="51708"]Not to get all public health on y’all, but what the hell is Kate doing having presumably unprotected sex with Sawyer after hearing about how everyone who gets pregnant on the island dies? Geez…pregnancy as the ultimate STD.[/quote]

    When Jack asks for a spoon and then Kate seductively puts it in her mouth, I think she was trying to give a signal about something that doesn’t cause pregnancy. ;)

  214. my comment (Comment 188)…does anyone have any answers? i’m curious what you guys think.
    it’s reaffirmed my assumption that widmore and dharma are connected. i just think it’s odd that they would try such a risky move; that’s why i think they may have intended for the chopper to crash (or assume it would).

  215. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51755"]I’m just saying that the guys knew exactly which direction to look for her, even though Dez saw it in visions the others didnt hesitate or really disagree that they were headed in wrong direction-they obviously thought that the parachutist fell inland. I didn’t hear any of them say that she would be in the water.[/quote]
    Actually I thought one of guys implied that they didn’t think it was good idea to go into the ocean at night, then Dez said not the ocean, but the jungle.

  216. Jones says:

    I am rethinking the Adam and Eve theory more and more after watching this episode. Some people have speculated that they are Desmond and Penny and I am back to wondering about that now.

    As far as Naomi landing in the jungle, this raises the question going back to the pilot episode – How did Jack end up in the jungle when the plane crashed on the beach?

  217. [quote comment="51766"]
    As far as Naomi landing in the jungle, this raises the question going back to the pilot episode – How did Jack end up in the jungle when the plane crashed on the beach?[/quote]

    the cockpit was in the jungle too. also, people/seats in the pond.
    makes me wonder about Smokey.

  218. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51758"]But Dez clearly thought it was Penny right up until he pulled the helmet off. Then he was shocked it wasn’t her. Maybe I’m really confused about this. I’ll go watch it again.[/quote]
    In his flash, he saw the pic of him and Penny in the book. To his knowledge, he and Penny are the only two with that picture, so he put those two things together and inferred it was her.

    He never actually saw her in the flash.

    By the way, I only remember them receiving one picture when it was taken and Penny gave it to Dez right before he broke up with her. How did Penny have this picture?

  219. Bizzy says:

    [quote comment="51763"]my comment (Comment 188)
    it’s reaffirmed my assumption that widmore and dharma are connected. [/quote]

    Widmore construction built the concrete hatches on the island for Dharma.

    The Others and the other Losties might have missed the helicopter since it was at night (and why was that?).

    There’s very little that makes sense about the parachutist’s arrival, including bailing out of a helicopter. Maybe parachick was guaranteed a large bonus if she were able to make it past the electromagnetic snow globe shield. Money changes everything.

  220. Hammer says:

    Hurley’s Dad – Speculation is that it is possible that during the “time travel” the second picture was taken and therefore there are two pictures.

  221. MasterPo says:

    The plane broke up over the island so people and wreckage was spread across the place. That’s hiow Jack, seats etc, got everywhere not just on the beach.

    Re: Kate and the spoon – Yea, definately meant to be seductive/female-cat move. Either jack didn’t pick up on it or didn’t care.

    More interesting to me is he saw Kate put it in her mouth then hand it over to him. He didn’t seem to wash it and gave it to Juliet to use. A pretty major slip-up for a doctor!

  222. [quote comment="51771"][quote comment="51763"]my comment (Comment 188)
    it’s reaffirmed my assumption that widmore and dharma are connected. [/quote]

    Widmore construction built the concrete hatches on the island for Dharma.
    [/quote]

    oooh….i did not know that!!! are you a lostpedia junkie like i am?!?!

    The Others abandoned the barracks, but where did they go? i missed something there…

    i wonder if desmond’s ever noticed the widmore name on anything/construction on the island.

  223. and biz, since i messed up the quoting, i wanted to clarify that i wasn’t being sarcastic regarding not knowing that widmore did the construction. i knew the name had popped up several places, but that’s interesting about the construction.

  224. katesFriend says:

    still, no one has responded to my comment that MAYBE penny isn’t behind this

    isn’t it POSSIBLE that the others set this up

    we don’t know if they know about desmond or not, but i can’t beleive they don’t when they have so much info on everyone else

    maybe they set this up for some reason b/c they need desmond’s help (seeing the future, survived the hatch implosion, etc) just like ben wanted to pick locke’s brain

    just a thought, i just don’t understand why everyone is positive penny is the source of our new friend

  225. [quote comment="51776"]still, no one has responded to my comment that MAYBE penny isn’t behind this

    isn’t it POSSIBLE that the others set this up

    we don’t know if they know about desmond or not, but i can’t beleive they don’t when they have so much info on everyone else

    maybe they set this up for some reason b/c they need desmond’s help (seeing the future, survived the hatch implosion, etc) just like ben wanted to pick locke’s brain

    just a thought, i just don’t understand why everyone is positive penny is the source of our new friend[/quote]

    i think The Others may be involved, but i also think that penny (or at least certainly her father) is involved with the others. penny’s the widmore i keep referring to. well, her father too…we KNOW they’re loaded and did construction for the island hatch (thanks, biz).

  226. MKS says:

    Catch-22 (additional info)

    Catch-22 (the rule that would allow [quote comment="51536"]LOST-Dog-Vincent wrote in LostHatch.com http://losthatch.com/forums/forums/thread/1945.aspx
    re Catch-22

    “It’s about a man involved in flying bomb runs in World War 2 who has asked a doctor friend if there’s a way out of it. He replies that one must be grounded if insane, but must also request to be grounded.

    “There was only one catch, and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn’t want to he was sane and had to.”

    There are more similar situations throughout the book put under the category of Catch-22, but this one comes with a nice little explanation, don’t you think? My interpretation of the phrase is that a Catch-22 situation gives you the illusion of options, when you really have only one choice. That you think that you can get away with doing what you want, when “the man” is just going to trick you out of it… This week’s should be a good one, if this is the case! :)”

    I replied “I can offer a more simplistic account, That is “vicious circle”. Whatever the question, the Options you have always steer you back around to where you started. Certain questions may require several answers to drive you around the circle, but ultimately you always return to your original dilemna.”

    My Q? here (after seeing the episode) WHAT THE HECK WAS THE CATCH-22 tonight?[/quote]

    Catch-22 (additional info)

    The Catch 22 paragraph that would allow men to get out of flying those missions is a piece of circular reasoning that keeps the men trapped in a paradox that determines whether they live or die.
    The idea in the book is that corrupt buerocrats are the ones making the decisions, and that might makes right. (one character says “they have a right to do anything we can’t stop them from doing”).
    There is also a theme of loss in religious faith in the book, which has to do with questioning the very existance of God (or a higher power).
    Also, the main character in the book (Yosarion- I’m not sure about the spelling, it’s been a while) keeps visualizing his own death over and over. He can’t believe how many different ways there are for a person to die, and keeps inserting himself (having visions of himself) dying at least ten different ways. The up-side is that he becomes conscious of how frail life really is and lives his life more fully.

  227. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51764"][quote comment="51755"]I’m just saying that the guys knew exactly which direction to look for her, even though Dez saw it in visions the others didnt hesitate or really disagree that they were headed in wrong direction-they obviously thought that the parachutist fell inland. I didn’t hear any of them say that she would be in the water.[/quote]
    Actually I thought one of guys implied that they didn’t think it was good idea to go into the ocean at night, then Dez said not the ocean, but the jungle.[/quote]

    nah i thought that was because hurley said we gotta go out there-meaning ocean, but because they wanted to go to where chopper crashed in ocean. then they saw the red light in sky blinking.

  228. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51770"][quote comment="51758"]But Dez clearly thought it was Penny right up until he pulled the helmet off. Then he was shocked it wasn’t her. Maybe I’m really confused about this. I’ll go watch it again.[/quote]
    In his flash, he saw the pic of him and Penny in the book. To his knowledge, he and Penny are the only two with that picture, so he put those two things together and inferred it was her.

    He never actually saw her in the flash.

    By the way, I only remember them receiving one picture when it was taken and Penny gave it to Dez right before he broke up with her. How did Penny have this picture?[/quote]

    There is a pic of her and Des on her nightstand the night she gets the call from the Portugese guys so there is more than one pic.

  229. Choppa'Piloto says:

    [quote comment="51734"]Choppa: I’ve got hundreds of jumps on ram air (square) canopies and all types of rounds from back when that’s all there was available. I can’t believe the helicopter was higher than a couple of thousand feet, if they could hear it that distinctly from the beach. If parachick made an emergency exit, her canopy would be opening under 1500 feet. Even in a hurricane, no way could she travel that far. Plus, if you look at the scene, there are no large branches above her. What did she hit that would knock her out?[/quote]I’ve got a dozen static jumps and 3 freefalls, no ram chutes. I do have hundreds of hours though as Jump pilot, DZO and DZ safety. The initial whop-whop we heard in that humid ocean salt air environment was consistent with a medium size helo at 4-5K feet with a 40 knot tail wind at about 1-2NM distance. The helo airspeed was 70-80 knots. I think the helo crashed/autorotated to splashdown at about 1 km (1000 meters) off shore. I think the parachutist dropped in at about 2km or more inland.
    I don’t think the intended DZ was the beach. I think she meant to drop into the barracks compound, which is about 1000-1500 feet higher than the beach. The Barracks are lit-up and she did not have night vision goggles, so any unlit area would be a hazardous jump. She was probably sitting in the open door rigged for a static-line jump when the helo had problems. Night static with tethered equipment (her back pack) usually goes out at no lower than 2500′, even with AODs/FF-2s (automatic opening devices). 2500′ above the 1500′ barracks = 4000′ over the beach. Sitting in the door, ready to jump when the helo fails = static bailout at 4000′ MSL. With a reasonable tailwind of 40+ knots, a 3km drift from bailout is very probable. If she meant to go out freefall, at night, the helo would be at least 8000′ above the DZ & the whop-whop would be much quieter than what we heard. A freefall bailout (hop n’ pop) would put her “under canopy” at about 7000′ and MUCH farther away than what we saw.
    No branches above her? She was hanging from an 18 inch thick branch which Des climbed up, macheted her fouled riser lines, and dropped her to the waiting trio below. If that branch didn’t knock her out, I’ll just allow LOST some dramatic license… The Rescue of a mysterious unconscious jumper is much more dramatic than a conscious jumper yelling “Hey – can I get a little help here”! [;^)

  230. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51780"][quote comment="51770"][quote comment="51758"]But Dez clearly thought it was Penny right up until he pulled the helmet off. Then he was shocked it wasn’t her. Maybe I’m really confused about this. I’ll go watch it again.[/quote]
    In his flash, he saw the pic of him and Penny in the book. To his knowledge, he and Penny are the only two with that picture, so he put those two things together and inferred it was her.

    He never actually saw her in the flash.

    By the way, I only remember them receiving one picture when it was taken and Penny gave it to Dez right before he broke up with her. How did Penny have this picture?[/quote]

    There is a pic of her and Des on her nightstand the night she gets the call from the Portugese guys so there is more than one pic.[/quote]

    Right, not saying this was the first time. Just saying there we’ve only seen one picture taken.

  231. Hammer says:

    Here one. What if the parachick does the normal food drops. Penn is working with her and she bailed out. Which would explain the downing of the craft.

  232. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51755"]I’m just saying that the guys knew exactly which direction to look for her, even though Dez saw it in visions the others didnt hesitate or really disagree that they were headed in wrong direction-they obviously thought that the parachutist fell inland. I didn’t hear any of them say that she would be in the water.[/quote]
    They were following the beacon (red lights) right? They all saw it fall inland is what I understood.

  233. Hammer says:

    My bad, I remembered it wrong.

  234. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51695"]I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?[/quote]

    I must have missed this one. Does anybody have a reference to go to for this? Podcast maybe?

  235. UthaOne says:

    The most important thing for me was that a perfectly good Ovation guitar was ruined by that arrow. And there should have been a kabong sound to go with it. Are there no other guitarists here? LOL

  236. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51783"]Here one. What if the parachick does the normal food drops. Penn is working with her and she bailed out. Which would explain the downing of the craft.[/quote]
    Sorry to quote myself, but I want to add…this could explain the jump over the island. She also was carrying the sat-phone which (if the battery weren’t dead) would allow her to contact Penn for help once she did or didn’t find Dez.

  237. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51776"]still, no one has responded to my comment that MAYBE penny isn’t behind this

    isn’t it POSSIBLE that the others set this up

    we don’t know if they know about desmond or not, but i can’t beleive they don’t when they have so much info on everyone else

    maybe they set this up for some reason b/c they need desmond’s help (seeing the future, survived the hatch implosion, etc) just like ben wanted to pick locke’s brain

    just a thought, i just don’t understand why everyone is positive penny is the source of our new friend[/quote]

    I think anything is possible. But I think the whole Brazilian Portuguese thing, plus the picture, etc, are really too much coincidence. Honestly I think Dez’s visions give him a sense of what type of event happens, scary, happy, etc. He was definitely feeling positive and like Penny was rescuing him. But I’ll definitely keep an open mind about the Other possibly being behind it-how do think they got Dez to have those visions?

  238. here’s what lostpedia says about the photo.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond%27s_photo

    i think thought that naomi’s copy was on color copy paper…as if it were copied from another pic, possibly penny’s.

  239. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51776"]just a thought, i just don’t understand why everyone is positive penny is the source of our new friend[/quote]
    I’m going to keep an open mind as well, but it isn’t a leap to think Penn is involved. Afterall, last season’s cliff hanger was Penn’s clan finding the anomaly and we’ve been waiting all season for someone to show up.

  240. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51790"]here’s what lostpedia says about the photo.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond%27s_photo

    i think thought that naomi’s copy was on color copy paper…as if it were copied from another pic, possibly penny’s.[/quote]

    HMMM, did the pilot’s copy have Penny in a white or black shirt? And what color shirt was in Penny’s original copy on her bedside table? And what color was her shirt in Dez’s copy? This might help determine whether the pics are definitely from different “timelines”.

  241. Tina says:

    [quote comment="51770"][quote comment="51758"]But Dez clearly thought it was Penny right up until he pulled the helmet off. Then he was shocked it wasn’t her. Maybe I’m really confused about this. I’ll go watch it again.[/quote]
    In his flash, he saw the pic of him and Penny in the book. To his knowledge, he and Penny are the only two with that picture, so he put those two things together and inferred it was her.

    He never actually saw her in the flash.

    By the way, I only remember them receiving one picture when it was taken and Penny gave it to Dez right before he broke up with her. How did Penny have this picture?[/quote]

    I also think that the orginal picture (the one desmond had before he may or may not have time travelled) showed penny in white not black. I wonder if this existence of more than one picture and pictures in different outfits lends itself to the time displacement theories. If things are happening in several times times and spaces or happening for than once it could account for the changes and inconsistencies. I wonder…

    A short bitch about Jack–I get that he hasn’t gotten laid in 80 some odd days and that he’s pissed that Kate “picked” Sawyer over him, but there is no way Juliet is going to form a meaningful relationship with him. I wish he’d just give it up already. Sheesh.

  242. Bobbi says:

    Oh forget it, now that I read on Lostpedia…it was indeed a continuity error that was corrected on replays.

  243. Hammer says:

    Tina – I wish I could remember what thread, but it was discussed in the past about the show using time travel to explain how the two picture could be different.

  244. Tina says:

    [quote comment="51794"]Oh forget it, now that I read on Lostpedia…it was indeed a continuity error that was corrected on replays.[/quote]

    That’s lame on their part.

  245. [quote comment="51792"][quote comment="51790"]here’s what lostpedia says about the photo.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond%27s_photo

    i think thought that naomi’s copy was on color copy paper…as if it were copied from another pic, possibly penny’s.[/quote]

    HMMM, did the pilot’s copy have Penny in a white or black shirt? And what color shirt was in Penny’s original copy on her bedside table? And what color was her shirt in Dez’s copy? This might help determine whether the pics are definitely from different “timelines”.[/quote]

    if you click on that link, ( http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond%27s_photo ), you’ll see that it was a continuity error that was later fixed when they re-ran the episode.

    it’s certianly undetermined if there is more than one original pic…the fact that desmond never noticed penny’s letter in the book (that he was only to read before suicide?) makes me wonder what kinds of tabs he’s keeping on this things. even if i didn’t read my favorite/sacred book, i’d certainly notice if there was a letter in it.

  246. DocH says:

    I think Bizzy & Hammer have helped solved the helicopter issue. My contribution: The helicopter was on a routine recurring resupply (via airdrop) mission. They came on schedule, as planned. They were preparing to para-drop the supplies as they normally do – doors open with the GIB (guy/gal in back) ready to push stuff out over the DZ. What went wrong – the Others, or Mikhail, are always their to “unlock” the “door” the helicopter normally comes in & out of. The helicopter isn’t contacted – no one is home (barracks/comm station) to tell them AND no one is there to unlock the door for them. So – Bam the helo flies smack dab into the sliding glass door. The GIB jumps to safety, the pilot(s) go down with the helicopter.

  247. Magilla says:

    Loved the episode, but I feel there is either an inconsistency or just another mystery. The female came to the island by helicopter. Even long range helicopters only have an effective range of 1000 km or so. Does this mean that the island is next to another land mass or that there is possibly some type of aquatic platform (i.e. a ship) which is also actively searching for the island from which the helicopter can return?

    Just a thought, but I think the implications of this being a helicopter rather than a plane are going to be big in the season(s) to come.

  248. Tina says:

    On Where the Parachutist Came from:

    This is WAY out there: in the Dark Material’s Trilogy there is a spot in the coldest part of the world where there is a convergence of all the worlds in space that allows people to go between all the existing worlds. There is also a knife that can open or close trap doors into other worlds at will, but the result of such opening is the creation of phantom like creatures that suck the life out of people. (This part has nothing ot do with Lost)

    The point is a cultural/literary reference point for the series, perhaps D&C are Dark Materials fans and ripped the idea of an icy cold location with a time/space convergence point of multiple worlds for their placement of our island. NOW, if there is an entrance or convergence point somewhere near the South Pole, it would explain why the Listening Station folks were there and Naomi is part of their team, then that would explain how she got from point A to point B, point B being the island.

  249. lostpedia says that the food drops only occur every 6-8 months, and they haven’t been on the island long enough for it to be time for another food drop. so i don’t think that’s what the chopper was.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Food_drop

  250. MKS says:

    Tina-
    I’ve been making the South Pole “entrance into another dimesion/ world” argument for a while now. It would explain a lot- the Brazilian observation station at the end of last season, the polar bears, etc.

  251. Lesley says:

    Considering all the twists I would not be surprised if flygirl is with the Others and Dez and we, the audience are being conned. Perhaps there is a plan set up to cover the Hostiles in the event of a purple haze (loved that line). Maybe Kate cannot get preg. so she doesn’t care about protection. Remember the test was negative when she was married? Considering the need for tranqs when coming to the island it is likely that wormhole passage leaves one unconscious so I agree that flygirl’s suit may have been necessary for a safe arrival by parachute.

  252. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51786"][quote comment="51695"]I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?[/quote]

    I must have missed this one. Does anybody have a reference to go to for this? Podcast maybe?[/quote]
    _________________

    I’ll ask it again because lostpedia does not agree.

    ***Desmond failed to push the button on-time on September 22, 2004, triggering a system failure. Although the sequence was entered shortly after the time expired, the resulting magnetic burst was thought by him to have caused Flight 815 to crash. It is not clear if the effect acutally brought down the airliner. ***

    I also heard on another reliable podcast today that his pushing the button did have an effect on bringing down 815.

  253. Other 218 says:

    [quote comment="51805"]lostpedia says that the food drops only occur every 6-8 months, and they haven’t been on the island long enough for it to be time for another food drop. so i don’t think that’s what the chopper was.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Food_drop%5B/quote%5D

    yeh, but if the island is going through “time compression” (may theorists support this), then 6-8 months in normal time may only be 2-3 weeks of island time – i’m just saying…

  254. Becky says:

    [quote comment="51708"]Not to get all public health on y’all, but what the hell is Kate doing having presumably unprotected sex with Sawyer after hearing about how everyone who gets pregnant on the island dies? Geez…pregnancy as the ultimate STD. Maybe she doesn’t trust Juliet, but I wouldn’t want to take my chances, especially with a guy who’s been around like Sawyer. What exactly was the something that was “burning in Tallahasse, and it wasn’t from the sun” James, hm?

    On the other hand, a whole flashback sequence of Scottish accents is heavenly.[/quote]

    a. Kate has been around, too!
    b. I hope you mean pregnancy is an STD on the island and not in general, as pregnancy is a miraculous and wonderful thing.

    AND there may have been condoms on the plane…there were every other kind of toiletry!

  255. samsandrasan says:

    Took me all day to get through all the posts. Too many to go back and find who to quote so, I’ll just throw my thoughts out there:

    I think it’s pretty obvious that the parachuter has something to do with Penny since she had the picture with her and called him by name. Could be otherwise but I don’t think so. Who says the Others don’t know about the helicopter? Maybe they are the reason it came down.

    Also, saving Charlie did not change who the ‘chuter was. They found the pack with the book before Desmond decided to save Charlie. Why would Penny be reading a book in Portuguese?

    As far as the photoshopped photo – someone asked if the couple was just standing in front of a background. It’s not just that – the lighting on the two faces is different. Those are two different pics put together in front of the pic of the monastary.

    I don’t trust Jack anymore but if he is working with Juliette, why isn’t he being less obvious? I wouldn’t lose any sleep over him, Sawyer seems more trustworthy these days than Jack.

  256. [quote comment="51810"][quote comment="51805"]lostpedia says that the food drops only occur every 6-8 months, and they haven’t been on the island long enough for it to be time for another food drop. so i don’t think that’s what the chopper was.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Food_drop%5B/quote%5D

    yeh, but if the island is going through “time compression” (may theorists support this), then 6-8 months in normal time may only be 2-3 weeks of island time – i’m just saying…[/quote]

    i know there are several theories about time, though i haven’t been completely convinced, but my question is this: if 6-8 months really COULD be 2-3 weeks on the island, then that means there should have been SEVERAL food drops already. and i don’t think that has occured based on paulo saying they’d run out of some granola bar, and more importantly, wouldn’t the Losties have anticipated the food drop/air craft?

  257. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="51807"]Considering all the twists I would not be surprised if flygirl is with the Others and Dez and we, the audience are being conned. Perhaps there is a plan set up to cover the Hostiles in the event of a purple haze (loved that line). Maybe Kate cannot get preg. so she doesn’t care about protection. Remember the test was negative when she was married? Considering the need for tranqs when coming to the island it is likely that wormhole passage leaves one unconscious so I agree that flygirl’s suit may have been necessary for a safe arrival by parachute.[/quote]

    this is EXACTLY what i have been saying

    we know that the others have all kinds of powers, and probably have another means of transportation ohter than the sub, so it would make sense they had a helo

    also, the deception part seems very other-like (to know what desmond is about/thinks and are playing off of that)

  258. MasterPo says:

    I don’t think the helo was on a resupply drop mission. Those supply pallots are HUGE and heavy. I don’t think they would fit in a Huey style chopper. And the pallots had parachutes on them too. Wouldn’t have time to open and slow down the pallots if dropped from a helo.

    IMO the resupply is by C130 or similar cargo plane – or by medium range rocket.

  259. Bizzy says:

    samsandrasan: I don’t think the Others are as powerful and as knowledgeable about the island as we first believed. If they shot down the Widmorecopter, what’s the chance of the parachick surviving?

  260. Eric says:

    I don’t think Naomi was the only new person we’ll see from the helicopter.

    Desmond’s visions are puzzles, not perfect information. In his flashes he saw what he chose to do, trapse into the jungle to look for a parachutist rather than swim out into the ocean as Hurley suggested.

    So who made the 1k swim from offshore and scrambled to the beach? How long will it be before we see her/him/them? Maybe Penny is on the island afterall. Letting Charlie die would have ended their search for Naomi in the jungle, and as they carried Charlie back to camp, they would have come across Penny. Desmond, unlike Abraham, didn’t allow sacrifice, and he will not be rewarded with reunion anytime soon.

  261. samsandrasan says:

    Bizzy

    Just a thought, the copter could have come down on it’s own for sure. However, if they did have something to do with it, I don’t think they would have had to “shoot” it down to bring it down. I don’t think they would care if there were survivors, just that there is no vehicle to get off the island with or communicate with. What shut down the phone may have shut down the helicopter. I agree with someone who said it is silly to assume she just didn’t charge the phone. Could have been the Others; the island or…?

  262. [quote comment="51820"]Bizzy

    Just a thought, the copter could have come down on it’s own for sure. However, if they did have something to do with it, I don’t think they would have had to “shoot” it down to bring it down. I don’t think they would care if there were survivors, just that there is no vehicle to get off the island with or communicate with. What shut down the phone may have shut down the helicopter. I agree with someone who said it is silly to assume she just didn’t charge the phone. Could have been the Others; the island or…?[/quote]

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Satellite_phone

    the phone said “internal error”, not a dead battery. could’ve just been the impact or a number of things. i’m guessing that the electromagnetism could’ve messed with both.

  263. MKS says:

    [quote comment="51657"]Okay so I am watching it and I see what some others posted about when Hurley says the word “Flash” and something blue flashes on his face. Is there a reason for this that anyone figured out? Just the camera crew filming in rain? It does seem a little ironic.[/quote]

    I think it was time changing- the course of destiny changing. It was right as Desmond realized that Charlie was realy going to die. I think it was at that moment that he decided to save Charlie’s life, or at least his (seeming) previous decision to let Charlie die was beginning to be shaken. I don’t think it was a mess up by the filming crew.

  264. Tasha says:

    I don’t really think so either. Well, then again…how often did it happen? Because if that was the only time and it said it just as Hurley said the word Flash, I think it is ironic.

    Who knows…my brain is fried.

  265. Other 218 says:

    [quote comment="51814"]and i don’t think that has occured based on paulo saying they’d run out of some granola bar, and more importantly, wouldn’t the Losties have anticipated the food drop/air craft?[/quote]
    I am pretty sure that the Losties have already found/consumed one of the Food Drops – I just can’t remember which episode. Anyone – A little help, por favor.

  266. Tasha says:

    Also, alot of people speculate that it is time travel and some wormhole at the south pole. So what is wrong with my Hallow Earth Theory??? It supposedly is at the poles. As far as sunlight, read into Hallow Earth Theory and you will find why their is light, just like the sun. Time traveling and wormholes and aliens are all things that are far fetched. So I don’t think Hallow Earth is that far fetched LOL. Sorry, just still sticking with my theory.

  267. marco says:

    anyone else notice when jack and kate were talking in the “kitchen” he said something along the lines of “waiting for something bad to happen soon” and laughed?
    maybe hes in on the plan with the others, just a thought as he and juliet seem to be spending alot of time together,

    oh and how do we know that girl is called naomi?

  268. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51839"]I am pretty sure that the Losties have already found/consumed one of the Food Drops – I just can’t remember which episode. Anyone – A little help, por favor.[/quote]

    It was in the episode “Dave”.

  269. Tasha says:

    With the food drops, we know the Others use the materials. How do we even know that food drops come from somewhere? Maybe the Others just decided to do the survivors a favor by getting some supplies to them. They do want the mothers to stay healthy…. Maybe a plane didn’t even go over and drop it off. Do we actually KNOW that? Maybe I missed something. I just remember them finding the supplies and calling it a food drop.

  270. Other 218 says:

    Food on pallets usually come from C130 type acft. But, they can come from larger helicopters that have aft ramps AND they can come from medium size helos that can “sling-load” them beneath the aircraft and release the load that way.

    Sure Naomi the parachick had a pic of Desmond in her pack. Who is to say that the rest of the helo crew did not have the same picture of Desmond in their gear pack??? Des is definitely their focus, maybe as a point-of-contact if he is not the focus of the particular mission they were on.

  271. herxanthikles says:

    [quote comment="51787"]The most important thing for me was that a perfectly good Ovation guitar was ruined by that arrow.

    And there should have been a kabong sound to go with it. Are there no other guitarists here? LOL[/quote]

    Totally! Looks like the guitar is OK, even after being drenched with rain and two people falling on it. Must be the special healing properties of the island. Is the guitar on the list??

    And Becky, of course pregnancy as an STD only on the island. There must be Dharma condoms too, come to think of it…

  272. herxanthikles says:

    Whoops, just went back and saw the arrowhead sticking out. Ummm….pick?

  273. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51843"]With the food drops, we know the Others use the materials. How do we even know that food drops come from somewhere? Maybe the Others just decided to do the survivors a favor by getting some supplies to them. They do want the mothers to stay healthy…. Maybe a plane didn’t even go over and drop it off. Do we actually KNOW that? Maybe I missed something. I just remember them finding the supplies and calling it a food drop.[/quote]

    I suppose we don’t KNOW for sure. I think most of us assumed, because wasnt there a parachute attached or something?

  274. Aaron says:

    I like the theory that Desmond is becoming a main character and it’s all about him reliving this sequence of events in his life over and over again until he gets it right.

    Has anyone seen the movie 12 Monkeys? It’s starting to seem like that.

  275. Lesley says:

    Regarding Jack, me thinks he is just too aloof. He is waiting for Juliet to make her move but he needs her to believe that he trusts her. Jack is just not that dense and he still has the goal of fixing the situation for everyone. He knows how badly Jules wants to leave and that she has more of a history with Ben. Jack has to realize that in Juliet’s mind she has a greater chance of leaving if she goes along with Ben’s wishes. Jack is very well aware of the games the Others play and I am betting that when Juliet makes her move Jack will not be on her side. By the same token Juliet would love nothing more than to get off the island and give Ben his comeuppance at the same time. I am guessing that will be her fatal move.

  276. Bobbi says:

    Maybe Jack will be banished for trusting Juliet and the two of them will go live in the caves, and die there alone. Jack with a white “good guy” stone, and Juliet with a black “evil girl” stone. ;)

  277. Andreas says:

    [quote comment="51751"]
    Also, I agree Des is an important character, but also wonder how this fits into what we’ve heard about him from the writers. He wasn’t initially going to be a main character, but was brought back and his character expanded -if I’m remembering correctly.[/quote]

    Just to clear things up, it was Ben/Henry who wasn’t going to be a regular. The writers knew that there would be a character who was the leader of The Others, but they initially didn’t plan that Ben/Henry would be the leader of the Others.

    I really enjoyed the episode and you guys have written a lot of interesting comments. Finally read through them all.

    As for lady parachute, I first thought that she might be part of Dharma and the DeGroots, but considering that she had a photo of Desmond, I would tend to agree that she was sent by Penny.

    A few of you mentioned Sawyer’s line “who’s your favorite other?” being funny. I liked it too and it makes me wonder if the writers are reading the polls on this site since we had one with that question a while back!

  278. confused says:

    i have a question. if the events in this episodes were going to happen, how come desmond had to force them, as opposed to watch them unfold naturally? i thought desmond was supposed to just see the future, not create it.

  279. liesa says:

    Going back to the bible names, Jacob can mean deceiver. He was NOT the favorite son of Isaac. That was his brother Esau. He was the favorite of his mother, Rebecca. The only two sons Jacob loved were Benjamin and Joseph. I don’t know how much weight to put on the bible stuff, but surely having his name mean “deceiver” has to be significant. In fact, my husband says, Jacob was afraid to let Benjamin out of his sight. Like Ben not ever leaving the island. Or maybe Jacob is the island??Genesis 42:4

  280. Pinto says:

    when they are whistling, what theme song are they whistling? if its the smurfs, maby it’s a connection to the others…

    the way i see it, the others are obviously trying to create some form of mirical envolving child birth, maby they are trying to create a perfict world like the smurfs. also the two children that have been born on the island are both boys (which might just be a coincidence) but the smurfs are all boys. Also, the only girl smurf was sent as a spi to spi on the smurfs (you see where i’m going here) Juliet!!! and, the girl smurf had bright blond hair like juliet!!

    It’s kind of a lame connection but it makes quite a bit of sense

  281. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="51872"]i have a question. if the events in this episodes were going to happen, how come desmond had to force them, as opposed to watch them unfold naturally? i thought desmond was supposed to just see the future, not create it.[/quote]

    I was thinking that. It’s like he went and made it happen. What would have happened if they just stayed on the beach? But he WANTED to go find Penny. I was a little confused there myself. I keep wondering why he even got prepared.

  282. Jocco says:

    I’m sorry, but the Smurfs are reaching way to far into pop culture. If Lost was made by the folks that make Family Guy, maybe.

  283. Pinto says:

    The girl smurfs name was smurfette, which rhyms whith juliet!

  284. Pinto says:

    all i’m saying is it’s possible

  285. Pinto says:

    did anyone realize that noone on the otherside of the island heard the helicopter!

  286. Pinto says:

    sorry, none of the people on the otherside of the island heard the crash.

    I think the girl might be a plant from the others!

  287. Laura says:

    Desmond sees flashes of what could happen. He saw Charlie drowning to save Claire and he knew it could happen, so he intervened to stop it from happening. In this case he saw something that could happen, that he wanted to happen so he encouraged it. What I find interesting is that so far the only things we have heard that he sees are the ways in which Charlie dies or Penny is involved. Why does he see Charlie die but not Nikki and Paolo. He could be keeping the other visions to himself… but he insists that he for some reason only sees certain things. If that is the case why is Charlie so much more important than Nikki/Paolo? I also think this is interesting because Charlie was the reason that Desmond realized he was reliving the past (when he saw Charlie on the street playing guitar in his flashback/time travel).

  288. lostfan says:

    when it showed that picture of the lady that told desmonds future in “flashes before your eyes”, i realized that that must have been his wife or they had some sort of connection. so then i thought desmond had a good relation with that monk, so he might have something to do with the future flashes

  289. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="51809"][quote comment="51786"][quote comment="51695"]I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?[/quote]

    I must have missed this one. Does anybody have a reference to go to for this? Podcast maybe?[/quote]
    _________________

    I’ll ask it again because lostpedia does not agree.

    ***Desmond failed to push the button on-time on September 22, 2004, triggering a system failure. Although the sequence was entered shortly after the time expired, the resulting magnetic burst was thought by him to have caused Flight 815 to crash. It is not clear if the effect acutally brought down the airliner. ***

    I also heard on another reliable podcast today that his pushing the button did have an effect on bringing down 815.[/quote]
    I could be way off on this HD. I thought it was in a podcast, but you have me doubting it.

    Maybe Andreas can confirm or deny?

  290. Phoeber says:

    Ok you all write some really interesting stuff- and so I thought I might bring this up to see if you what you think…

    I know Desmond saw Charlie outside the bar after he went back in time.. What about when he talked with Jack at the stadium while he was running- I don’t recall he said to Jack- but I do find it interesting that so far he met two of the losties prior to getting to the Island- what is the signifigance of that? And what did he say to Jack?

  291. Pinto says:

    [quote comment="51900"]Ok you all write some really interesting stuff- and so I thought I might bring this up to see if you what you think…

    I know Desmond saw Charlie outside the bar after he went back in time.. What about when he talked with Jack at the stadium while he was running- I don’t recall he said to Jack- but I do find it interesting that so far he met two of the losties prior to getting to the Island- what is the signifigance of that? And what did he say to Jack?[/quote]

    he helped tape up jacks anckle, and other things but i cant remember. And in this last episode, when des. asks jack for his first aid kit due to a “twisted anckle” and jack asked to take a look, but Des. refused and said, “I’ve taped my share of anckles” that was refurring to their encounter at the stadium.

  292. Pinto says:

    i dont know if that made sence

  293. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="51901"][quote comment="51900"]Ok you all write some really interesting stuff- and so I thought I might bring this up to see if you what you think…

    I know Desmond saw Charlie outside the bar after he went back in time.. What about when he talked with Jack at the stadium while he was running- I don’t recall he said to Jack- but I do find it interesting that so far he met two of the losties prior to getting to the Island- what is the signifigance of that? And what did he say to Jack?[/quote]

    he helped tape up jacks anckle, and other things but i cant remember. And in this last episode, when des. asks jack for his first aid kit due to a “twisted anckle” and jack asked to take a look, but Des. refused and said, “I’ve taped my share of anckles”

    that was refurring to their encounter at the stadium.[/quote]

    yup, also, when Jack said he made a promise he couldn’t keep (about fixing his future wife’s back) Dez says, “how do you know you didn’t fix her afteral”. (we discussed previously that perhaps this shows how he had relived it a few times. He also says “see you in another life brother.”

  294. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="51889"]sorry,

    none of the people on the otherside of the island heard the crash.

    I think the girl might be a plant from the others![/quote]

    i know! this is what i have been saying, it seems much more likely the others are behind this!

  295. Pinto says:

    i think they are gaining the trust of the most trusted losties (juliet is gaining Jacks trust to hurt the losties.) So now they are after the trust of desmond because people listen to him/trust him

  296. Erin says:

    [quote comment="51731"]this episode was AWESOME!!!

    so…i’m not surprised that the chopper crashed since the electromagnetic field is so strong, but it seems that you think that Widmore would KNOW that…
    maybe she was just trying to make a statement and assumed that naomi wouldn’t survive.
    where are the others?
    and wouldn’t they know about the chopper?[/quote]

    Since the “sky turned purple” and the hatch imploded, is there even an electromagnetic field to deal with anymore? No buttons are being pressed to release the charge…

  297. Raphael says:

    [quote comment="51522"]For the love of God people…READ the comments BEFORE posting a new comment. It’s right there, above the entry box, rule #1!

    Anyway, hopefully I won’t come back here in the morning to 200 duplicate comments…but I’m sure I will.[/quote]

    Did anyone see the photo on the monks desk?

  298. Raphael says:

    [quote comment="51806"]Tina-
    I’ve been making the South Pole “entrance into another dimesion/ world” argument for a while now. It would explain a lot- the Brazilian observation station at the end of last season, the polar bears, etc.[/quote]

    To my knlowledge, no polar bear has ever been to the south pole.

  299. Jamus says:

    [quote comment="51674"]Regarding the helicopter girl:

    1) I totally agree with the person above that if the chopper (assuming it was a chopper) was coming in from over the ocean, if she bailed out she probably would have landed in the water, not on land much less so far in land.

    Unless….she bailed out much further away, before they heard the helo. The chopper might already have been going down long before they heard it. Then again, helos aren’t high altitude vehicles.

    2). The clothes she was wearing IMO aren’t characteristic of a helo pilot.

    She was in a jump suit that looked more like a jet pilot’s suit.

    She had an oxygen mask on. Helo’s don’t/can’t fly high enough to need O2 (as I understand them).

    Her helmet was also more fighter/military like than a helo pilot.

    3) It’s also very possible she is just one more hapless victim of the island, coming here who-knows-how just like the Losties, the beach plane, the balloon, the Black Rock, etc.[/quote]

    Tossing out a guess here… Naomi did a HALO jump to parachute to the island in search of Desmond for Penny. We know they parachute in supplies. It is just a matter of how high up do you have to go to get out of “The Bubble’s” range.

  300. Other 218 says:

    [quote comment="51900"]I don’t recall he said to Jack – but I do find it interesting that so far he met two of the losties prior to getting to the Island – what is the signifigance of that?[/quote]Not two but three. Remember Des knew Libby – getting the yacht to sail around the globe.

  301. Oliver says:

    The song they’ve whistled was the Colonel Bogey March.

    -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Bogey_March

  302. Wink says:

    I don’t think it was supposed to be Penny, I think it was Naomi all along and Penny sent her to find Dez. Also, the story that Hurly was telling was of a Latin American myth, also known as a Brazilian scary monster!

  303. Wink says:

    OH, and I don’t think it was a chopper, how could she have ended up where she did…and with an oxygen mask?

  304. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment="51940"]I don’t think it was supposed to be Penny, I think it was Naomi all along and Penny sent her to find Dez. Also, the story that Hurly was telling was of a Latin American myth, also known as a Brazilian scary monster![/quote]

    well i think it was supposed to be penny becasue he sae her in the flash on the island. and when he did NOT let charlie die naomi came. sorry parachutist came

  305. THE LOST KING says:

    Did anyone see the photo on the monks desk?[/quote]

    yes i did and whoever took that picture is seriousley lacking experience in photoshop

  306. Bizzy says:

    I don’t think the parachute jump was intentional.

    It was at night, over the ocean, with a round canopy, accompanied by the sounds of a failing helicopter.

    But, it’s even harder to explain how Jack wound up lying on his back in the jungle after experiencing a middair breakup of an airliner in which he had his seat belt fastened.

    And, if there was a loop where Charlie was killed, and he discovered the parachutist, why is this now being played out again? What went wrong? What was supposed to happen?

    For Desmond, rescue means not having to keep repeating these loops on the island over and over again. It’s not about leaving the island.

  307. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment="51440"]So are we to assume the backpack they found belonged to Naomi? Why on earth would Naomi have that picture of Des & Pen? What language was the book “Catch-22″ in?[/quote]

    hey it was in portugese. coincidently the guys at season 2 finale spoke portugese. and the pack is most probably naomi’s. i have a feeling though that penny has in fact sent her. and why was there a hoola doll?

  308. Tina says:

    Hey Andreas,

    Any way to delete repetitive posts?
    Just a thought.

    ____________________
    MKS: Great minds you know… I don’t know that the worlds convergence in time at or near the South Pole would necessarily mean there’d be polar bears, they don’t live in the South Pole right? The polar bears are on the island because Dharma brought them there for zoological experimentation initially. I can’t believe they’d have survived fro 25 odd years in a tropical climate with all that fur they have if there wasn’t a way to go back and forth between the worlds/times. I mean the South Pole is cold enough for them, so maybe when Walt starting reading that comic and thinking about Polar bears he called them back onto the island from the SOuth Pole where they wander off to when they realized the island was too hot for them…

    Any one know anything about Polar Bears?

  309. pinto,
    the boys were whistling “Colonel Bogey March”, not The Smurfs theme.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Catch-22

    i do wonder why they would’ve been going into the jungle if he HADn’t had the vision.
    maybe it really WOULD have been to go camping?

  310. also, i have a hard time believing that Jin, of all people, would leave his pregnant wife to go on a camping trip with The Guys…

  311. Tasha says:

    You know how history repeats itself? Maybe they just relive their lives? I don’t understand Desmond going into the past and seeing Charlie and remembering he was on that island with him. I thought he went into the future and was reliving it. IF he DID go into the future and was reliving his life over, then maybe Charlie is SUPPOSED to live.

    I think Laura made a good point in comment 287. Why does he only see Charlie dying and nobody else? I don’t believe Charlie is supposed to die. it’s more that Desmond is SUPPOSED to save HIM. That is why he has this gift and always sees Charlie. Desmond’s destiny is supposed to save Charlie. But WHY Charlie??
    He didn’t save Nikki and Paolo.

    Maybe in some flashback in the future he won’t have visions of Charlie, but for now, Charlie seems to be what is important. Maybe Charlie holds a key to Penny somehow. It’s been forever since we have seen one of Charlie’s flashbacks.

  312. Tina says:

    [quote comment="51993"]You know how history repeats itself? Maybe they just relive their lives? I don’t understand Desmond going into the past and seeing Charlie and remembering he was on that island with him. I thought he went into the future and was reliving it. IF he DID go into the future and was reliving his life over, then maybe Charlie is SUPPOSED to live.

    I think Laura made a good point in comment 287. Why does he only see Charlie dying and nobody else? I don’t believe Charlie is supposed to die. it’s more that Desmond is SUPPOSED to save HIM. That is why he has this gift and always sees Charlie. Desmond’s destiny is supposed to save Charlie. But WHY Charlie??
    He didn’t save Nikki and Paolo.

    Maybe in some flashback in the future he won’t have visions of Charlie, but for now, Charlie seems to be what is important. Maybe Charlie holds a key to Penny somehow. It’s been forever since we have seen one of Charlie’s flashbacks.[/quote]

    I don’t think Desmond went forward, he seemed like he was repeating previous events with limited knowledge of them being repeats which is why he recognized Charlie on the street. He, at that point had seen him at least TWO times, once during the original cycle of the events as the street musician and a second time as Charlie, his friend on the island. This is how he recognized him in the second cycle (not sure if it IS a second cycle but for argument’s sake.

    I’m uncertain that I believe Desmond’s saving Charlie has anything to do with Charlie himself, but more to do with a lesson the island is trying to teach Desmond. Really, Charlie could be anyone and the lesson would be the same. Desmond must understand the implications of true sacrifice, that of his deepest desire and dearest hopes: a life with Penny sacrificed for some greater good. What that is, we and he don’t know yet. But Desmond and Locke have a major role to play.

    OR maybe Charlie is another sacrifice the island demands and Desmond is thwarting the will of the island andin the process the will of Jacob? Who know for sure.

  313. Angel Elf says:

    It seems to me that this whole episode was based on Genesis Chapter 22.

  314. Barb says:

    A lot of this information is from lostpedia (who is a Naomi). My question – who writes the lostpedia stuff and where do they get their info (wikipedia has been found to contain many errors could lostpedia have errors?)
    I think it’s odd that Jack doesn’t remember desmond from their stadium run. I’d sure remember him, that scottish accent!
    The biblical reference are blatant – abraham ready to sacrifice isaac/desmond ready to sacrifice charlie but stopped because he knew the sacrifice for what he thought would bring penny to the island wasn’t right/he chose the right path (maybe for the first time)
    Do the others know about desmond? He’s been there for 3 years. what does he know about them?
    It seems there is a contrast between the losties and the others. The others sacrifice oneanother for their cause (pregnant mothers/juliet shooting that guy/ethan/etc) while the losties are in the survivial together.

  315. desmondo says:

    [quote comment="51810"][quote]
    yeh, but if the island is going through “time compression” (may theorists support this), then 6-8 months in normal time may only be 2-3 weeks of island time – i’m just saying…[/quote]

    You are totally right because that’s exactly how “time compression” works. Really the whole show is about “time compression.”

  316. desmondo says:

    [quote comment="52004"]It seems to me that this whole episode was based on Genesis Chapter 22.[/quote]

    Wrong. I actually stayed up all night stripping every 22nd letter from the 22nd chapter of the book “Gravity’s Rainbow” by Thomas Pynchon and now know the true secret to Lost.

  317. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="52008"][quote comment="51810"][quote]
    yeh, but if the island is going through “time compression” (may theorists support this), then 6-8 months in normal time may only be 2-3 weeks of island time – i’m just saying…[/quote]

    You are totally right because that’s exactly how “time compression” works. Really the whole show is about “time compression.”[/quote]

    Did anyone ever figure out why the plane crashed in broad daylight when it should have been dark out??

  318. samsandrasan says:

    [quote comment="52011"]Wrong. I actually stayed up all night stripping every 22nd letter from the 22nd chapter of the book “Gravity’s Rainbow” by Thomas Pynchon and now know the true secret to Lost.[/quote]

    What are you talking about?

  319. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="52007"]A lot of this information is from lostpedia (who is a Naomi). My question – who writes the lostpedia stuff and where do they get their info (wikipedia has been found to contain many errors could lostpedia have errors?)
    I think it’s odd that Jack doesn’t remember desmond from their stadium run. I’d sure remember him, that scottish accent!
    The biblical reference are blatant – abraham ready to sacrifice isaac/desmond ready to sacrifice charlie but stopped because he knew the sacrifice for what he thought would bring penny to the island wasn’t right/he chose the right path (maybe for the first time)
    Do the others know about desmond? He’s been there for 3 years. what does he know about them?
    It seems there is a contrast between the losties and the others. The others sacrifice oneanother for their cause (pregnant mothers/juliet shooting that guy/ethan/etc) while the losties are in the survivial together.[/quote]

    Jack did remember Desmond. When Jack first went down into hatch, and found Desmond holding John Locke at gunpoint, he recognized him right away.

  320. THE LOST KING says:

    IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY D&C THAT TIME ON AND OFF THE ISLAND IS THE SAME

  321. brian says:

    OKAY…so I just noticed something in the episode that I haven’t seen posted anywhere yet…not to say that it hasn’t…..but if you watch the beginning of the episode when Desmond is having his vision of the future…CHARLIE NEVER ACTUALLY DIES!!! Well the arrow actually does go through his neck and then you see him die…but then the visions show Hurly finding the cable and then them seeing the red blinking light….BUT THEN THE IMPORTANT INFORMATION…it shows them finding the lady in the parachute stuck in the tree…they cut her down and catch her in the parachute…AND WATCH CLOSELY AND YOU WILL SEE CHARLIE AND JIN ARE HOLDING THE PARACHUTE!!! So either this is a mess up…which isnt like the lost crew…or there is something to it

  322. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="52024"]OKAY…so I just noticed something in the episode that I haven’t seen posted anywhere yet…not to say that it hasn’t…..but if you watch the beginning of the episode when Desmond is having his vision of the future…CHARLIE NEVER ACTUALLY DIES!!! Well the arrow actually does go through his neck and then you see him die…but then the visions show Hurly finding the cable and then them seeing the red blinking light….BUT THEN THE IMPORTANT INFORMATION…it shows them finding the lady in the parachute stuck in the tree…they cut her down and catch her in the parachute…AND WATCH CLOSELY AND YOU WILL SEE CHARLIE AND JIN ARE HOLDING THE PARACHUTE!!! So either this is a mess up…which isnt like the lost crew…or there is something to it[/quote]

    Maybe that is when Des decided to save Charlie afterall. Maybe he saw that Charlie could be alive and still help find parachutist. So then he figures he can save him afterall.

  323. Tasha says:

    Okay. Well if time on and off the island are the same, then what is up with the plane crashing in daylight and it being morning in Florida and on the island on the same day on two different parts of the world? UNLESS the island is in the Carribean somewhere.

  324. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="52027"][quote comment="52024"]OKAY…so I just noticed something in the episode that I haven’t seen posted anywhere yet…not to say that it hasn’t…..but if you watch the beginning of the episode when Desmond is having his vision of the future…CHARLIE NEVER ACTUALLY DIES!!! Well the arrow actually does go through his neck and then you see him die…but then the visions show Hurly finding the cable and then them seeing the red blinking light….BUT THEN THE IMPORTANT INFORMATION…it shows them finding the lady in the parachute stuck in the tree…they cut her down and catch her in the parachute…AND WATCH CLOSELY AND YOU WILL SEE CHARLIE AND JIN ARE HOLDING THE PARACHUTE!!! So either this is a mess up…which isnt like the lost crew…or there is something to it[/quote]

    Maybe that is when Des decided to save Charlie afterall. Maybe he saw that Charlie could be alive and still help find parachutist. So then he figures he can save him afterall.[/quote]

    Maybe because that is why he HAS the vsions. Because he is MEANT to save Charlie!

  325. [quote comment="51993"]You know how history repeats itself? Maybe they just relive their lives? I don’t understand Desmond going into the past and seeing Charlie and remembering he was on that island with him. I thought he went into the future and was reliving it. IF he DID go into the future and was reliving his life over, then maybe Charlie is SUPPOSED to live.

    I think Laura made a good point in comment 287. Why does he only see Charlie dying and nobody else? I don’t believe Charlie is supposed to die. it’s more that Desmond is SUPPOSED to save HIM. That is why he has this gift and always sees Charlie. Desmond’s destiny is supposed to save Charlie. But WHY Charlie??
    He didn’t save Nikki and Paolo.

    Maybe in some flashback in the future he won’t have visions of Charlie, but for now, Charlie seems to be what is important. Maybe Charlie holds a key to Penny somehow. It’s been forever since we have seen one of Charlie’s flashbacks.[/quote]

    good thoughts. maybe it’s because charley is one of the few to actually try to better himself (quit drugs); maybe charley’s still got some good left to do. ammends to make. SOMEthing. i personally don’t think that nikki and paulo were worth saving (that sounds terrible)…but you know what i mean; they were deceitful, and she got what was coming to her with those spiders.
    a lot of my friends think charley’s annoying and can’t wait for him to die, but he’s got a good heart. he’s really only hurt himself (w/ the drugs) where as the other people with bad history were con artists…they were destructive to OTHER people.

    i also keep thinking about how that psychic BOUGHT clair the plane ticket (and gave her $6000)…he said it HAD to be that plane.
    i wonder what his story is and w/ whom he’s connected…

  326. Tina says:

    [quote comment="52022"]IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY D&C THAT TIME ON AND OFF THE ISLAND IS THE SAME[/quote]

    When and where?

  327. Anna says:

    not directly related to the show, but here is a very interesting spoof written by the LOST writers:

    http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/spoofs_satire/the_adventure_of_the_missing_stocking.php

    let’s hope this isn’t how the show ends…i would be verrry disappointed if it ended up like st. elsewhere

  328. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="52030"][quote comment="51993"]

    [/quote]
    good thoughts. maybe it’s because charley is one of the few to actually try to better himself (quit drugs); maybe charley’s still got some good left to do. ammends to make. SOMEthing. i personally don’t think that nikki and paulo were worth saving (that sounds terrible)…but you know what i mean; they were deceitful, and she got what was coming to her with those spiders.
    a lot of my friends think charley’s annoying and can’t wait for him to die, but he’s got a good heart. he’s really only hurt himself (w/ the drugs) where as the other people with bad history were con artists…they were destructive to OTHER people.

    i also keep thinking about how that psychic BOUGHT clair the plane ticket (and gave her $6000)…he said it HAD to be that plane.
    i wonder what his story is and w/ whom he’s connected…[/quote]

    I don’t know about her psychic. He was a con artist. He probably was paid off. Remember his wicked daughter that was “in between” places? This show is crazy!

  329. brian says:

    [quote comment="52027"][quote comment="52024"]OKAY…so I just noticed something in the episode that I haven’t seen posted anywhere yet…not to say that it hasn’t…..but if you watch the beginning of the episode when Desmond is having his vision of the future…CHARLIE NEVER ACTUALLY DIES!!! Well the arrow actually does go through his neck and then you see him die…but then the visions show Hurly finding the cable and then them seeing the red blinking light….BUT THEN THE IMPORTANT INFORMATION…it shows them finding the lady in the parachute stuck in the tree…they cut her down and catch her in the parachute…AND WATCH CLOSELY AND YOU WILL SEE CHARLIE AND JIN ARE HOLDING THE PARACHUTE!!! So either this is a mess up…which isnt like the lost crew…or there is something to it[/quote]

    Maybe that is when Des decided to save Charlie afterall. Maybe he saw that Charlie could be alive and still help find parachutist. So then he figures he can save him afterall.[/quote]

    I don’t think so…from the way the story was told it was as though Desmond believed that he was going to have to let Charlie die to achieve the right goal in the end….even when the arrow was about to fire desmond was still debating what to do… I think it was something desmond missed…maybe he will realize this later or maybe it will just go by without notice….who knows

  330. MKS says:

    [quote comment="52024"]OKAY…so I just noticed something in the episode that I haven’t seen posted anywhere yet…not to say that it hasn’t…..but if you watch the beginning of the episode when Desmond is having his vision of the future…CHARLIE NEVER ACTUALLY DIES!!! Well the arrow actually does go through his neck and then you see him die…but then the visions show Hurly finding the cable and then them seeing the red blinking light….BUT THEN THE IMPORTANT INFORMATION…it shows them finding the lady in the parachute stuck in the tree…they cut her down and catch her in the parachute…AND WATCH CLOSELY AND YOU WILL SEE CHARLIE AND JIN ARE HOLDING THE PARACHUTE!!! So either this is a mess up…which isnt like the lost crew…or there is something to it[/quote]

    I have said this before. I don’t think Desmond sees the future as much as possibilities of the future. He sees how things can happen, but not how they are necessarily meant to happen. The whole idea of destiny vs. free will comes into play. On one hand you have the jewelry store lady and the monk telling him he has a destiny to fullfill, but we also see that he can affect that destiny by making choices. He had a choice to stay with Penny, but he was to afraid to do it.
    Desmonds visions of how people (or at least Charlie) dies are very similar to the visions the main character in Catch 22 keeps having (I already posted on the book above).

  331. nylostfan says:

    I think its interesting that Penny’s fully name is “Penelope,” which is Odysseus’s wife’s name in the Odyssey. Like Desmond, Odysseus too was searching a way to get back to his love and was blown “time and again” off-course by vengeful forces outside of his control. It took Odysseus 20 years to see his wife again, 10 years for the Trojan war and 10 years of wandering afterwards.

  332. UthaOne says:

    ok it looks to me that the Naomi girl did do a halo jump with the beacon in order to guide the helicopter to the island. If they had the coordinates for her to do the jump but could not locate the island from below that would make sense. Penny could’ve been on the heli and may come ashore in a raft?

  333. Found says:

    Is it just me, or did the “splash” of whatever came down in the ocean sound a whole lot closer than the helicopter prop sounds? Maybe it didn’t crash, but dropped something into the ocean, then flew away. I think the helicoptor sound was fading into the distance by the time the splash happened… wonder what, or who it is?

  334. Bizzy says:

    [quote comment="52046"]ok it looks to me that the Naomi girl did do a halo jump with the beacon in order to guide the helicopter to the island. If they had the coordinates for her to do the jump but could not locate the island from below that would make sense. Penny could’ve been on the heli and may come ashore in a raft?[/quote]

    Hmmm…you’re using the latest in GPS, satellite phone to do a HALO jump (presumably to avoid detection from somebody’s radar), yet you use the lowest tech with a round parachute canopy. Plus, if you have to do a water landing, this old parachute gear will pull you under faster than anything else, even if you have good floatation gear. Doing any kind of parachuting around a body of water is a scary proposition, much less trying to land on an island, on a cloudy night.

    Also, it appears that the helicopter crashed in the ocean, or was that smokey skinny dipping?

    Engadget posted a picture of this phone and is saying that is an iPhone from the future.

    All I can say to that is: DANTPOTMD? (Did anyone notice the picture on the monk’s desk?).

  335. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="51637"]“That doesn’t sound like a helicopter”

    I thought the helicopter sounded like smokey. Are we sure that it was a helicopter? Could it have been taken down by smokey?

    Someone had mentioned before that the island could be Jacob, perhaps Locke and Ben are Isaac and Esau (one brother stealing the others “blessing”).[/quote]

    exactly what i thought!

  336. April says:

    My apologies in advance for the long post.

    Ok, I hope the Lost writers are reading this if they run out of ideas. Lately, it seems none of the episodes are surprising anymore, because whatever happens, someone on this blog has already thought it. I don’t know if the people on here are just that good, or if the Lost writers have been trolling the blogs for ideas to resolve their plotholes. (Or maybe you guys have Desmond powers.)

    One suggestion at the outset: Andreas, do you really expect everyone to read 500+ comments before writing their own comment? (Your blog has gotten extremely popular.) Can we take that requirement off, and just ignore repeat comments?

    I just wanted to make a few observations:

    One, why are we convinced there’s a chopper? Didn’t Desmond + Charlie(?) say that it didn’t sound like a helicopter? It sounded more like the metallic noise we used to hear from the forest when the “monster” was around. The sound reminded me of Rose’s comment, “I think I’ve heard that somewhere before” and someone saying it sounds like the above-ground subway trains in the Bronx.

    And as a few people mentioned, if the island is in the middle of the ocean, then a helicopter would need a large ship to take off from/refuel it. 1) If a huge ship is just around the corner, and their helicopter disappears, then they’re sure as hell gonna crack that egg before leaving. 2) If the island is really not in the middle of the ocean, then the concept’s too similar to the Truman Show.

    In any case, I think the Satellite phone ran out of juice not because someone forgot to charge it, but because when the woman fell from the sky, she had to go through some kind of electromagnetic force field similar to the one around Othersville, and the field zaps away juice from Satellite phones; or else she came in contact with some incarnation of Smokey, who sucked out the electro-juice.

    Two, I’m in the camp that believes (or at least hopes) Jack isn’t as stupid and naive as he seems. Maybe he wants Juliet to think he trusts her.

    Three, I had a big problem with Penny’s forwardness when she and Desmond met. It seemed she really really wanted to make sure that Desmond came with her to her destination, as if she was really there to pick him up and not just the wine. I mean, I’ve heard rich women can be aggressive when it came to men, but she was pretty adamant about Desmond coming along with her for the ride. It changes my perception of Penny as a faithful “wife” waiting for Desmond to come back for love, and instills a suspicion of her as a manipulator, possibly working for her “dad” and the “greater cause” whatever that may turn out to be.

    Desmond is Neo. If we look at the sequence of events skeptically, we can come up with this scenario: he’s at the bar before he’s about the marry Ruth, something happens to him (possibly drugged), he wakes up and the “monk” shows him the way (btw, in the pic of the “monk” and Mrs. Hawking, was the “monk” wearing his monk outfit? He looked plain-clothed to me); the day after Desmond messes up, they call Penny to come pick him up, knowing he would fall in love with her. Once the father-rejection-leaving Penny thing happens, as the conspirators knew it would, as a further push, Libby gives him the boat that would lead him to the island. When he finds his powers later and is very confused, Mrs. Hawking has to show up on the scene to set him straight. He later/before has a hand in recruiting Jack.

    Whether it’s fate/determinism, each person’s life is inextricably linked to other people’s — more significantly so on the island. It makes you question if everyone you meet in your daily life should have some significance to you. If you sit down and think about it, there is only a finite set of people you will come in contact with your whole life, even if they are just strangers on the street.

    Are the prophesies self-fulling? Is Desmond saving Charlie’s life, or are the visions driving him to do things that might not have happened? It’s a lot like that Twilight Zone episode where the guy got a fortune cookie that said he’s going to die, and then he created the events that led to his death.

  337. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="51669"][quote comment="51668"][quote comment="51617"]All I know, is that if Ben does not have 4 toes on each foot I’m going to be pissed off.[/quote]
    If Ben was born on the island how is it that other mothers can’t survive[/quote]

    Multiple choice:
    1)Ben lied about being born on the island.
    2)The problem is recent.
    3)Ben lied about being born on the island. ;)[/quote]

    maybe ben was born on the island just not concieved :)

  338. StPaul says:

    Romans 9:13. “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

  339. lost chicka says:

    desmond’s ex-grlgriend was named ruth & the chik who fell from the sky was name naomi. in bible ruth followed naomi so is ruth gonna show up on the island next (dead or alive)??

    really sorry if this has all ready been discussed. :)know it’s really annoying.

  340. lost chicka says:

    This Lost is turning into a women’s show, like a regular soap opera. The Jack, Sayid, and Sawyer characters have been so feminized, they’re just doing whatever Juliet or Kate tells them to do. You’d think they had lobotomies or something worse. And, look at Desmond, he’s another puppy dog.

    I was waiting for Locke to straighten out Benry, and get some decent information about the island. What’s up with these guys?[/quote]

    yes, these guys need bigger storylines & be the men for god’s sake & not be sick puppies in love! + sayid needs to beat the crap outa julliette & sawyer & jack r both welcom to help :) i think (or at least hope) locke is gonna straighten out Benry ver soon. i think sawyer was just like “use me” coz like he said when him & jack were playing pingpong sawyer hasn’t beaten jack at n e thing cept getting to sleep with kate first & i’m sure his little male ego neeeds to be built up a little.

    i really want jack to wind up tricking juliette into telling him y she’s really there so he can hand her over to sayid & be like “ur right. she’s one of them. she’s all yours”.

  341. lost chicka says:

    - 207: wat the heck r u talkin about?

    - alright i’m a blonde. i watched the show 2 times & didn’t catch the photo (of Mrs. RingStore & Mr. MonkBrother). where was it on the guy’s desk & which scene was it? i read the comments on the pic ‘fore i watched it again but still didn’t catch it.

    - don’t think parachik was ever gonna b penny. des is just so in love & can’t move on & wants to see her so bad he thought that’s what his vision was telling him.

    - alright. not to be negative here or anything, but i think y’all need to just let the parachik’s arrival go. it’s TV they make mistakes & sometimes they need to add more drama – like making us think penny was parachik & was dead .

    - the others bein behind naomi (parachik) would be a bigger twist i think then if it was penny who’d sent her. they’ve been watching desmond for 3 years in the hatch so i’m guessing they know that to yank him around like a dog on a chain is to pretend like penny sent her.

    hope y’all didn’t alreay talk about all this :)

  342. Other 218 says:

    [quote comment="52082"]- alright i’m a blonde. i watched the show 2 times & didn’t catch the photo (of Mrs. RingStore & Mr. MonkBrother). where was it on the guy’s desk & which scene was it? i read the comments on the pic ‘fore i watched it again but still didn’t catch it. [/quote]the Mrs. Hawkings and Bro Campbell pic are on the table as Des is dropping off his robes right before he departed. He was getting the lecture (I think Des sat down right next to the pic) about how his life was meant to unfold and that if he needed a lift into town he could load some bottles (do some heavy lifting) into pennys truck. As far as being blonde – put the hair color down and step away from the bottle ma’am. [8^)

  343. minnza says:

    Actually I see the photo on desk first because I am in Europe and see it before you guys but whatever.

  344. Joseph says:

    i agree with you lost chicka-love lost and am addicted to it but it has felt more like a soap opera and lacking in the ass kicking, brutal tones of the first 2 seasons. i hope the slow cessation of island time in relation to real time is not adding to the softness of this season.

  345. Ro-zgee says:

    [quote comment="52074"]
    Desmond is Neo. If we look at the sequence of events skeptically, we can come up with this scenario: he’s at the bar before he’s about the marry Ruth, something happens to him (possibly drugged), he wakes up and the “monk” shows him the way (btw, in the pic of the “monk” and Mrs. Hawking, was the “monk” wearing his monk outfit? He looked plain-clothed to me); the day after Desmond messes up, they call Penny to come pick him up, knowing he would fall in love with her. Once the father-rejection-leaving Penny thing happens, as the conspirators knew it would, as a further push, Libby gives him the boat that would lead him to the island. When he finds his powers later and is very confused, Mrs. Hawking has to show up on the scene to set him straight. He later/before has a hand in recruiting Jack.
    [/quote]

    Great post – I agree with most of what you say. Also makes me wonder what other characters could be considered manipulated in some way so that they wound up on a path to the island?? Who really “fixed” Sarah? What made Kate (a good girl)finally choose to kill her step-father? Locke’s been pushed around since his father came into his life. Sawyer was conned into going to Australia. Claire’s accident? Maybe some are far fetched, but Jack’s miracle operation really rings bells to me.
    Anyway I agree Penny and her father seem to be pushing Des along a path. Also when he was released from prison the first person there was Mr Widmore, trying to manipulate him yet again.

  346. Bizzy says:

    lost-chicka: You used my comments without giving me credit. Bad puppy!

  347. LostDamery says:

    Okay we must have LOST my 2 cents from this episode.
    So here they are:
    1 cent=> Is the power line in the sand that Hurley found the same line that Sayid found? I am guessing yes, and it is from an off shore platform that is connected to the underground others (beneath the planet of the apes) and will be eluded to in the season finale …come on season 4 “beneath the LOST island”
    2nd cent=> I am still sticking with my theory that Charlie is in fact controlling Desmond through his own mental powers or Desmond would have tried to help save many of the other losties etc. etc.

    who is with me?

  348. lost chicka says:

    couple of ideas:

    - my take on jack & julliette. jack is being an idiot again about the Others. he believed benry till the very end, he apparently still trusts Juls even though he KNOWS she is one of them & is choosing her over Kate. he better have a master plan to get her to tell him her & ben’s evil little plan to kill em all off & then hand her over to sayid & say “whatever u wanna do. she’s all yours now.” oh, sawyer & jack are both welcome to beat the crap outa her too. ;P

    - i think miss. parachute is with the Others cause 1) Others luv playin mind games & this would B a great one, 2) they’ve been watching Des for 3 stinkin years, i think that they have him pegged perfectly, 3) they could’ve gotten the picture from background checks on Desmond.

    - anybody know what Hugo/Hurley means or significance could be?

    - we don’t actually know if the people on the other side of the island heard it cause they never showed em during that part. mayb they’ll show it next week. it would/will b interesting to c juliete’s face.

  349. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="52309"]lost-chicka: You used my comments without giving me credit. Bad puppy![/quote]

    sorry! i’m really bad with quoting peopleon here. (hope i gave u credit this time)

  350. Meg says:

    [quote comment="52414"]- i think miss. parachute is with the Others cause 1) Others luv playin mind games & this would B a great one, 2) they’ve been watching Des for 3 stinkin years, i think that they have him pegged perfectly, 3) they could’ve gotten the picture from background checks on Desmond.
    [/quote]
    I don’t think the others could’ve gotten that picture since the only people who have them are Dez and Penny. However, since there is only supposed to be one picture and there are now two, maybe the Others have found a copy and are using it to manipulate Dez. But I don’t really believe it. It just doesn’t make sense that Naomi ties in so well with the eskimos and Penny just to turn out to be an Other.

  351. Kleptomaniaq says:

    [quote comment="51993"]
    He didn’t save Nikki and Paolo.

    [/quote]
    So nobody believes Nikki and Paolo either/both were able to escape their drug induced comas and being burried alive..after all..this is LOST!

    maybe I just didn’t see that post yet.

  352. Kleptomaniaq says:

    sorry not drug induced venom induced…damned arachnids

  353. deebo says:

    how bout the fact that des had the only copy of that picture? penny never took one from the photographer.

  354. Jamie says:

    Can someone please explain how we know the woman who ejected from the helicopter is named Naomi? Is this just a theory?

  355. bobbi says:

    My apologies ahead of time if this is repeated. I try very hard not to repeat-but when site went down i lost track of where i left off. Anyway-have we talked about why they couldn’t SEE the helicopter. If they could see the red flashing on the pilot, why couldnt they see the heli? I know it was night and all, but still seems strange-perhaps it was supposed to be “hidden” which i could understand. But this would mean the pilot wanted the heli hidden for a reason-possibly because they KNOW about the others?

  356. bobbi says:

    [quote comment="52082"]- 207: wat the heck r u talkin about?

    - alright i’m a blonde. i watched the show 2 times & didn’t catch the photo (of Mrs. RingStore & Mr. MonkBrother). where was it on the guy’s desk & which scene was it? i read the comments on the pic ‘fore i watched it again but still didn’t catch it.

    - don’t think parachik was ever gonna b penny. des is just so in love & can’t move on & wants to see her so bad he thought that’s what his vision was telling him.

    - alright. not to be negative here or anything, but i think y’all need to just let the parachik’s arrival go. it’s TV they make mistakes & sometimes they need to add more drama – like making us think penny was parachik & was dead .

    - the others bein behind naomi (parachik) would be a bigger twist i think then if it was penny who’d sent her. they’ve been watching desmond for 3 years in the hatch so i’m guessing they know that to yank him around like a dog on a chain is to pretend like penny sent her.

    hope y’all didn’t alreay talk about all this :)[/quote]

    It was a response to a discussion a few of us were having-about where the parachutist fell. I was saying that they all (hurley, jin, dez, charlie) went toward jungle as if they all thought it wasn’t strange thatshe’d be there-even though the helicopter crashed in water. So although we think it’s strange, it might just make sense to them.

  357. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="51895"][quote comment="51809"][quote comment="51786"][quote comment="51695"]I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?[/quote]

    I must have missed this one. Does anybody have a reference to go to for this? Podcast maybe?[/quote]
    _________________

    I’ll ask it again because lostpedia does not agree.

    ***Desmond failed to push the button on-time on September 22, 2004, triggering a system failure. Although the sequence was entered shortly after the time expired, the resulting magnetic burst was thought by him to have caused Flight 815 to crash. It is not clear if the effect acutally brought down the airliner. ***

    I also heard on another reliable podcast today that his pushing the button did have an effect on bringing down 815.[/quote]
    I could be way off on this HD. I thought it was in a podcast, but you have me doubting it.

    Maybe Andreas can confirm or deny?[/quote]

    ———————-

    Finally got a confirmation on this.

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20010504,00.html

    Did Desmond’s failure to press the button REALLY cause the plane to crash — or is there more to this story?

    LINDELOF: In terms of the pragmatic reality, Oceanic 815 never would have crashed had Desmond pushed the button….

  358. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="52518"][quote comment="52414"]- i think miss. parachute is with the Others cause 1) Others luv playin mind games & this would B a great one, 2) they’ve been watching Des for 3 stinkin years, i think that they have him pegged perfectly, 3) they could’ve gotten the picture from background checks on Desmond.
    [/quote]
    I don’t think the others could’ve gotten that picture since the only people who have them are Dez and Penny. However, since there is only supposed to be one picture and there are now two, maybe the Others have found a copy and are using it to manipulate Dez. But I don’t really believe it. It just doesn’t make sense that Naomi ties in so well with the eskimos and Penny just to turn out to be an Other.[/quote]

    i didn’t say i think Penny is an Other just that i think Naomi is. If Penny winds up being with them, I’d be really mad they made us think she was in love with Desmond for so long.

  359. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="52607"]Can someone please explain how we know the woman who ejected from the helicopter is named Naomi? Is this just a theory?[/quote]
    See comment #37

  360. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="52622"]

    Finally got a confirmation on this.

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20010504,00.html

    Did Desmond’s failure to press the button REALLY cause the plane to crash — or is there more to this story?

    LINDELOF: In terms of the pragmatic reality, Oceanic 815 never would have crashed had Desmond pushed the button….[/quote]
    Great find, HD!

  361. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="52584"]how bout the fact that des had the only copy of that picture? penny never took one from the photographer.[/quote]
    See comment #220. This was also confirmed by D&C during the April 20 podcast.

  362. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="52622"][quote comment="51895"][quote comment="51809"][quote comment="51786"][quote comment="51695"]I know D & C said that the lack of pushing the button did not bring down 815…so what’s up?[/quote]

    I must have missed this one. Does anybody have a reference to go to for this? Podcast maybe?[/quote]
    _________________

    I’ll ask it again because lostpedia does not agree.

    ***Desmond failed to push the button on-time on September 22, 2004, triggering a system failure. Although the sequence was entered shortly after the time expired, the resulting magnetic burst was thought by him to have caused Flight 815 to crash. It is not clear if the effect acutally brought down the airliner. ***

    I also heard on another reliable podcast today that his pushing the button did have an effect on bringing down 815.[/quote]
    I could be way off on this HD. I thought it was in a podcast, but you have me doubting it.

    Maybe Andreas can confirm or deny?[/quote]

    ———————-

    Finally got a confirmation on this.

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20010504,00.html

    Did Desmond’s failure to press the button REALLY cause the plane to crash — or is there more to this story?

    LINDELOF: In terms of the pragmatic reality, Oceanic 815 never would have crashed had Desmond pushed the button….[/quote]

    Thanks HD for clearing that up. I knew I had heard something…but of course I remembered it wrong…so now I can ask my question again.

    What made the aircraft crash now that the key has been turned? When 815 went down the ground shook (presumed to be because the button wasn’t pushed on time). So are we to assume the craft crashed because of the island security or did it run out of?

  363. Will says:

    [quote comment="52740"][quote comment="52622"][quote comment="51895"][quote comment="51809"][quote comment="51786"][quote comment="51695"]
    What made the aircraft crash now that the key has been turned? When 815 went down the ground shook (presumed to be because the button wasn’t pushed on time). So are we to assume the craft crashed because of the island security or did it run out of?[/quote]
    Hammer, my two cents on this would be along the lines of what Andreas alluded to in his final post.

    Let’s presume the island is protected by some type of electromagnetic shield. Perhaps in the time between the failure to push the button and the turning of the key, the field was disabled for some reason, which allowed flight 815 to enter into the sphere.

    When Desmond turned the key perhaps that either re-enabled said shield, or initiated some type of electromagnetic pulse that knocked the plane’s power out and engines off.

    It might be a stretch, but that could perhaps also explain the helicopter that went down last week (it hit the shield and lost power) and also the reason why the mysterious parachutist had to eject from whatever type of aircraft she was in…

  364. Hammer says:

    Will, sounds like what I’m thinking. Except for minor details (the key turning was a different instance, it’s when Penn’s bunch saw where the island is). But you are probabally correct. Not pushing the button allowed the magnet to pull 815 in. My guess is the turning of the key most likely set up a more permanent shield, while failing to push the button was sort of “resetting” the shield. If this is true, then Penn’s girl (if that’s who she is), was able to find the island but unable to land a craft.

  365. Jamie says:

    Jamie wrote:

    Can someone please explain how we know the woman who ejected from the helicopter is named Naomi? Is this just a theory?

    See comment #37

    Is “Lostpedia” Official? Seriously…

  366. Will says:

    [quote comment="52765"]Jamie wrote:

    Can someone please explain how we know the woman who ejected from the helicopter is named Naomi? Is this just a theory?

    See comment #37

    Is “Lostpedia” Official? Seriously…[/quote]
    Jamie – I am pretty sure that was a spoiler released via some type of interview with the actress playing the role, I would imagine we’ll find out for sure tomorrow night.

  367. Meg says:

    [quote comment="52636"][quote comment="52518"][quote comment="52414"]- i think miss. parachute is with the Others cause 1) Others luv playin mind games & this would B a great one, 2) they’ve been watching Des for 3 stinkin years, i think that they have him pegged perfectly, 3) they could’ve gotten the picture from background checks on Desmond.
    [/quote]
    I don’t think the others could’ve gotten that picture since the only people who have them are Dez and Penny. However, since there is only supposed to be one picture and there are now two, maybe the Others have found a copy and are using it to manipulate Dez. But I don’t really believe it. It just doesn’t make sense that Naomi ties in so well with the eskimos and Penny just to turn out to be an Other.[/quote]

    i didn’t say i think Penny is an Other just that i think Naomi is. If Penny winds up being with them, I’d be really mad they made us think she was in love with Desmond for so long.[/quote]
    I never said Penny is an Other. I said Naomi can’t be an Other because she has a picture and only Penny and Des have that picture. It just doesn’t make sense that she speaks whatever the hell language that the eskimos speak AND that she has a copy of the picture that isn’t even supposed to have a copy.

  368. Natasha says:

    As the episodes go on, and on… I am more surpriced… and with every new episode, I am so waitting for the next one… so the 17 episode was great… but I am asking myself… what happened to Lock???

  369. Other 218 says:

    [quote comment="52749"]It might be a stretch, but that could perhaps also explain the helicopter that went down last week (it hit the shield and lost power) and also the reason why the mysterious parachutist had to eject from whatever type of aircraft she was in…[/quote]
    ABC says that the helicopter ran out of fuel. Their website has episode descriptions. Before the show there is just a rough, two sentence synopsis of what to expect. After the show has aired, they flesh out the description to 7-8 sentences describing what you saw. It is NOT a spoiler because it HAS aired already – therefore HISTORY.

  370. Natasha says:

    I just wanted to tell that I have the photo of the picture of that lady… and the monk…
    and it is soooo uuuuuhhhhhh!!!! I don’t know who that lady is… but she really gives me the creeps…

  371. Natasha says:

    And since I am new one here… I think that everyone on the island have some conection… and as I can think… every single one of them, killed somebody in their lifes… or I am wrong? What do you think?

  372. Will says:

    [quote comment="52803"][quote comment="52749"]
    ABC says that the helicopter ran out of fuel. Their website has episode descriptions. Before the show there is just a rough, two sentence synopsis of what to expect. After the show has aired, they flesh out the description to 7-8 sentences describing what you saw. It is NOT a spoiler because it HAS aired already – therefore HISTORY.[/quote]
    I went back and checked the Episode Guide Synopsis on ABC.com and as it relates to the helicopter it says “Then they hear the sound of a helicopter out over the dark ocean.But then the sound changes and it crashes into the ocean.”, no reference to running out of gas, but perhaps I am missing something?

    Also, the spoiler reference was as it relates to the name of the parachutist.

  373. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="52803"][quote comment="52749"]It might be a stretch, but that could perhaps also explain the helicopter that went down last week (it hit the shield and lost power) and also the reason why the mysterious parachutist had to eject from whatever type of aircraft she was in…[/quote]
    ABC says that the helicopter ran out of fuel. Their website has episode descriptions. Before the show there is just a rough, two sentence synopsis of what to expect. After the show has aired, they flesh out the description to 7-8 sentences describing what you saw. It is NOT a spoiler because it HAS aired already – therefore HISTORY.[/quote]
    Well if this is true and the magnet field didn’t do it…then I go WAY back to my old theory that when Dez turned the key, he turned off the security system(magnetic field) and for now, the island is exposed. Which could be the reason why the people who knew about the key were told it would be disasterous to turn it and only as a last resort.

  374. Natasha says:

    As I could see, the picture is not black and white… only the construction is… but there is a green grass… and the lady is definitly in colour… but as I can see, the monk is, too… ???

  375. Hammer says:

    Damn…Will, looks like you will be just as keen as Andreas.

  376. Tina says:

    [quote comment="52812"]Damn…Will, looks like you will be just as keen as Andreas.[/quote]

    Agreed. Fab Job Will.

  377. lost chicka says:

    ok, so now i’m confused…did the helicoptor run out of fuel or not?

  378. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="52825"]ok, so now i’m confused…did the helicoptor run out of fuel or not?[/quote]
    I haven’t been able to find Other 218′s claim at ABC, so unless you can show us…I’m sticking with Will’s find, which is, we still don’t know.

  379. Other 218 says:

    I saw the fuel reference last Friday – not their now tho. maybe it revealed too much (maybe I’m an idiot). Don’t answer that one folks – plz. regardless – i am with hammer – i think the magnetic field shielding the island is off and the island is visible to outsiders. hence the helo attempting a visit – i am thinking “Contact” & “Close Encounters (of the polynesian kind)”.
    not an idiot, definitely not an idiot – 5 minutes to Wapner…

  380. lost chicka says:

    couple thoughts & Qs:

    - i think sun’s baby is jae lee’s (the guy who taught her english). there was no point in telling us she had an affair with him unless it’s his baby. well, actually i can think of a couple (tell us how bad her marraige had gotten, that she’s not as good as we think she is, add who’s baby twist…) but it’s still pretty worthless unless it’s his.

    - how old is aaron now? 2 months?

    - y isn’t anybody, especially Claire or Charlie, figuring this out: julliete = fertility doctor & other, sun = preggers, fertility doctor other + preggers sun = BIG PROBLEM!!!!!!! even with what little they know, they should be able to figure that out. it’s like nobody on the show asking lots of questions to the Others. they probably wouldn’t answer ‘em anyways & if they did it would most likely be lies, but cum on!

    - think this has already been posted but, what would’ve happened had Des let everything play out “naturally”? y were they going to be in the jungle? i’m going blank…

  381. Dougie says:

    Watched the episode again and noticed that the head monk said to Desmond that they had only made ’108′ bottles of the wine for selling.

  382. Will says:

    [quote comment="52880"]couple thoughts & Qs:

    - i think sun’s baby is jae lee’s (the guy who taught her english). there was no point in telling us she had an affair with him unless it’s his baby. well, actually i can think of a couple (tell us how bad her marraige had gotten, that she’s not as good as we think she is, add who’s baby twist…) but it’s still pretty worthless unless it’s his.

    - how old is aaron now? 2 months?

    - y isn’t anybody, especially Claire or Charlie, figuring this out: julliete = fertility doctor & other, sun = preggers, fertility doctor other + preggers sun = BIG PROBLEM!!!!!!! even with what little they know, they should be able to figure that out. it’s like nobody on the show asking lots of questions to the Others. they probably wouldn’t answer ‘em anyways & if they did it would most likely be lies, but cum on!

    - think this has already been posted but, what would’ve happened had Des let everything play out “naturally”? y were they going to be in the jungle? i’m going blank…[/quote]
    lost chicka – Given the relevancy of your last post to tonight’s show, I’m going to respond within the comments of that post and we can continue there. Thanks!

  383. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="52806"]And since I am new one here… I think that everyone on the island have some conection… and as I can think… every single one of them, killed somebody in their lifes… or I am wrong? What do you think?[/quote]
    Based on the info we’ve been given so far, not all of them have killed someone. Just a few examples, based on what we know:

    Rose and Bernard haven’t.

    Hurley thinks he’s responsible for people dying, but he’s never voluntarily killed anyone.

    I don’t think Jack has ever killed anyone – he’s had patients who have died, but he didn’t kill them.

    Charlie, Locke, and Sun have killed people since they arrived on the island, but not before.

    Claire may feel responsible for the car crash that put her mother in the coma, but she didn’t intentionally kill her (even if she is dead, which we don’t know for sure).

    Jin – we don’t know for sure if he ever killed someone. Although he could be blamed for Jae’s suicide.

    So Kate, Sawyer and probably Sayid are the only ones that we know for sure killed another person.

  384. Hammer says:

    I don’t think Shannon, Boone or Libby did either. But Eko, AnnaLucia, Nikki and Paolo did.

  385. Hammer says:

    Michael is on the list of killing on the island.

  386. Hammer says:

    Walt and Vincent haven’t killed. ;)

  387. Toeknee says:

    Unless you count that bird that Walt (allegedly) caused to fly into the window.

  388. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="53109"]Unless you count that bird that Walt (allegedly) caused to fly into the window.[/quote]

    well then count everytime Locke’s been hunting too.

  389. Natasha says:

    well, ok, you’re right… that was just a theory… I was thinking about the killing, not just really, but also like methaphore, too… :)
    nevermind…

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