Lost Season 3 Finale Recap

Charlie's Last Words

It has been a week now and the dust has settled (mostly) from the mind-blowing Season 3 finale. Though we are undoubtedly left with many questions to keep us occupied until next February, we were provided some closure as well. In summary:

Charlie is dead

There was a lot of commentary associated with the finale post related to how Charlie died and exactly why he did not try to escape from the control panel room as it filled with water. Ultimately Charlie believed that for the Losties to be rescued from the Island, specifically Claire and Aaron, he had to die in the way that Desmond envisioned. Bringing finality to season-long foreshadowing and in truly heroic fashion, he initiated the catalyst that will inevitably cause some of the Losties to get off the Island.

So are 12 Others, Naomi, and (possibly) Mikhail

The action and body count in this episode was unbelievable. We saw the Others’ rank and file decimated throughout the finale, Naomi literally stabbed in the back by Locke, and Mikhail detonate himself via hand grenade. However, I am not going to make the silly assumption that Mikhail is dead; after all, we have now seen him bounce back from the sensor pylons and a spear to the chest. We will probably see him wash ashore in Season 4 alive, but missing his right hand.

Though I generally agreed with it, I thought that Sawyer’s execution of Tom was the foreshadowing of an even darker descent for the character that we will see next season.

“Not Penny’s Boat”

During Charlie’s brief commune with Penny, we are told that Penny does not know of Naomi, which basically begs the question “Who is Naomi with?”. My first guess would be Dharma, or the corporate entity that financed the Dharma Initiative. She obviously has access to sophisticated technology and knows enough about Desmond’s back story to use that as the means to convince the Losties of her motives. Widmore anyone? Hopefully Desmond can get back in time to save the Losties from whomever is on their way to “rescue” them.

Future Jack is Depressing

As Jack is one of my personal favorite characters, I am hoping the flash forward we saw represents a “possible” future for Jack, and not the absolute. If it is Jack’s future, I would hope he finds a way back to the Island to right the wrong he feels needs to be addressed, and to find some greater meaning for his life. J. Wood, whose blog I have read frequently this season, discussed the flash forward in his TTLG post and it is definitely worth reading:

I’m planting a flag here — when Des saved Charlie, he changed that past and present as well as the future. Charlie couldn’t swim in the first season, and he’s all of a sudden a swimming champion who makes an impressive dive in “Greatest Hits,” a dive that Mikhail needed scuba gear for. Like Charlie’s newfound innate swimming ability, perhaps in the re-made past/present/future, Christian Shepherd didn’t die. And maybe that’s why Kate seems to be conspicuously lacking her trademark freckles.

The flash forward itself implies an even greater question for next season, and that is, did the Season 3 finale represent a change in the narrative angle for the entire series? Was the flash forward a one-time episodic plot device, or is this what we can expect moving forward?

Is Ben a bad guy, or a morally-challenged good guy?

Seeing Jack in his current state of depression made me think that Ben is really the only one who has this whole thing figured out, and is ultimately doing whatever is necessary to protect the location of the Island from the people looking to exploit it. There was obviously some merit to his comments about the company that Naomi was keeping, and his dialogue related to Jack’s need to get back to civilization, though stinging, was the truth. Nevertheless, it was somewhat cathartic to see Jack pummel Ben. For those that haven’t seen it yet, there are some pretty good transcriptions of Ben’s diary out there.

Who was in the casket?

There has been a lot of speculation about this; it could be Locke, Sawyer, or Ben, or anyone else under the guise of a different name. In my opinion, it is probably either Ben or someone we have yet to meet on the series. Jack commented that the person was neither friend nor relative, and the reaction evoked from Kate would indicate it was somebody that there was a general level of contempt for.

Season 4 cannot get here quick enough, and I am excited to learn more about everything referenced above, as well as where Locke has migrated off to, where exactly is this temple that Ben has sent the remaining Others to, and did we really see Walt, or was that a reincarnation of Smokey? Could Walt have some tie to Jacob?

We will continue to try and keep things interesting on this blog, following any information released about the series, the actors, and making some changes along the way to prepare for a better Season 4 Lost Blog experience. We are working on initiating a theory-focused contest and will have more information on that in the coming weeks.

Until then, stay Lost.

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105 Responses to Lost Season 3 Finale Recap

  1. aardwolf says:

    Looking at Ben’s diary (and having horrible handwriting myself), I can fill in some of the blanks.

    The first blank is the word “narrow”
    Another sentence: “JUST as our water supply ___s HAVE been cut off”
    “ANTIQUE army”
    The end is “AND THAT, I FEEL _____”

  2. AnMan says:

    In Jacks Flashforward in the hospital, he said to the other doctor get my father lets see whos’ more drunk. I’m confussed, so if the past/present & future have all changed, then anyone of the dead cast could be bought back??!!
    We could start all over again but with different tales.

  3. MKS says:

    I have been saying this for a long time now. When Ben said they were not the bad guys he was not lying. I strongly believe that Ben’s motives are good. He might be in over his head right now, and is thus making some bad/ rash decisions, but we’ll find out in time that he was justified in many of his actions.

    Try to look at things from his (possible) point of view.

    As a child he is brought onto a mysterious island. He is there as the child of the janitor though, and thus his opportunities are somewhat limited, i.e. it is his job to become the janitor like his father. But Ben is different. His lonelyness and experiences teach him to be more in-tune with his surroundings. He has a “sixth sense” if you will. By chance he meets the original occupants of the island- the ones that were there before a big company/ organization decided to use the island’s special properties for research, human experimentation, ..?.., in order to …?…world power, profit, control…?.. From these original people he learns the truth and decides that the organization (Dharma) needs to be stopped.

    He waits patiently for years while learning important information along the way.His unassuming job as janitor allows him to get into many limited access places without arising suspision. He watches, he learns, he becomes an astute observer and gains great knowledge of the workings of the Dharma stations and research.

    In the mean-time Dharma exercises strong control of then island. They try to get rid of all those who get in their way. When a research ship lands on the island, they release a chemical weapon to kill them all. Ben manages to rescue and save a little baby girl and adopts her. He knows time is getting critical.

    Then the time comes to act. Ben has known this day would come. He has to kill the Dharma people (maybe even sacrifice his love Annie in the process?). He helps the Others get their island back. He also becomes a leader by organizing the coup from the inside, being able to communicate with the spirits of the island (the sixth sense), and by being able to fool the outside world into thinking all is as it should be on the Island (by keeping up communications, and thus keeping the food-drops coming).

    Unfortunatelly, Dharma’s evil reign over the island left some dire consequences,i.e. women are not able to have babies. For years Ben does his best to find a solution to this problem, even bringing in experts from the outside (Juliette).

    One day a plane crashes on the island. Ben knows this could spell dissaster. While he knows that the island is invisible to the outside world thanks to Dharma’s jamming/ clouding devices, these new people could seriously jeopardize him and his people. They take the children to keep them save (and fed, and housed,…)and warn the Losties to stay on their side of the island. But the Losties don’t listen.

    The other problemis that the Losties are trying to find ways to get off the island. Something Ben knows he can’t allow to happen. As things begin to intensify, Ben is put under tremendous pressure. He can’t seem to keep everything going. In addition, there are amongst the Losties others like him- those with a sixth sense (Walt, Locke). He has always had a great faith and trust in the island, but now things are becoming unreveled. He is becoming desperate. This does not mean he has suddenly become a bad man, just that he is going through a trying period.

    So overall, Ben is the good guy. He does know what is best. Will our Losties find this truth outin time? Will the island be saved? Will the islands power end up being used to end the world- or at least cause some harm? Will Jack realize in time that he and the other Losties are now meant to stay on the island?

    What do you think?

  4. I really like Wood’s analysis of the finale and his take on the consequences of Desmond’s actions for the *entire* time continuum. I, too, tend to think that the future we saw was a potential future… as I commented in the finale thread, I think it’d be strange to leave the “hero” of the series unredeemed in the end, and I think an attempt to get “back to the island” would be a bit hokey.

    Finally, I hope that in 2010 Cuse & Lindelhof give us a comprehensive bibliography of the sources they used in developing the story.

  5. ANonymus says:

    I’m sorry but i re watched it he says EITHER friend or family not neither

  6. Will says:

    To follow-up on the identity of person in the casket, here is what The Tail Section is purporting as the newspaper story deciphered:

    “The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim’s loft. Concerned for tenants’ safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening.”

    Pretty interesting. Full story can be found here http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-news/lost-the-man-in-the-box.php#more

  7. Bobola says:

    MKS;
    Your analysis is brilliant. Now, if you can only explain the Polar bear.

  8. lost chicka says:

    i think jack will find his way back to the island IF he is really meant to be there. mrs. hawkins or whatever that old lady’s name is said that time has a way of course correcting which is why no matter what desmond did, charlie was gonna die and it will be why no matter how many times the losties try to get off the island they will always wind back up on it. and kate’s freckles “disappeared” because she had makeup on in the flash forward.

    i think is ben is a good guy trying to do good things. he’s just going about it the wrong way.

    MKS: i think you have a lot of good points, but you’re wrong about the Alex thing. if u’ll watch Solitare from S1 it tells how Danielle got to the island & Ben does not “save” Alex that way. He does “save” Alex tho in a way, because Danielle probably wouldn’t be able to care for Alex.

  9. Toeknee says:

    Will – re: the newspaper article…

    I had mentioned this on the lengthy post for “Through the Looking Glass,” but the origin of the full transcript of the article is at the Fuselage. You can read about that here:

    http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=81609

    And when you go to that site, you can click on their link for “The Obituary/Funeral thread” for many many pages of discussion of who is in the casket.

    My first guess is someone we have not seen yet, someone who will become important in future seasons. My second guess is Michael, living under an assumed name.

  10. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="63094"]I’m sorry but i re watched it he says EITHER friend or family not neither[/quote]
    It sounds like “either” to me, but IMHO, that would not make much sense. Most people would say “both”, or “neither”. My guess is he just didn’t enunciate very well, and he meant to say “neither”. Not that it really matters much.

    (and I hate to keep referring people to The Fuselage, but there was an interesting discussion of this issue over there, complete with high-def and slowed down sound clips for people to listen to)

  11. rejus says:

    1) Charlie didn’t try to escape from the room because didn’t want Desmond to drown. We know that if the station flooded there’s no escape for anyone inside.

    2) The Others are facing physical extinction and are losing motivation and unity. If a sort of Armageddon is coming soon against the ‘bad people’, they are going to lose. Only the alliance with some Losties (Jack from the future?) and the powers of the island could save them.

    3) Naomi’s people are not Dharma. The Dharma Initiative is not searching for the island since they keep doing food-drops (Ben says that the bad guys “are been trying to find the island”). The Bad People are not related with Widmore since Penelope should have known from her father about the boat and Naomi. Maybe an evil secret branch of Dharma?

    4) Flash-forward is going to become a usual technique in the next season. Two parallel stories are going to be exploited: how the losties and the others are facing the Naomi’s friends and how Jack and Kate (with Desmond and his powers?) are going to get back to the island changing the past.
    If it’s true that Christian Shepherd is alive in the future, than something big will happen on the island in the present, capable of changing things so distant in time and so important like Jack’s father death (I don’t think that is only Des attempt to keep Charlie alive).

    5) A message of the whole show is that it’s hard to define what’s good and what’s evil. I totally agree with MKS and his great analyis: Ben is not a bad guy. From his point of view, at least.

    6) The man in the casket is a new character that will be probably introduced at the beginning of the next season, on the island, in the present. I don’t think is wise to believe the people who says they know what’s written in the article that future Jack reads on the plane. People who analysed it (screenshots edited with photoshop) says that the the newspaper clipping is unreadable in the middle, but it can suggest that the name of the dead party has a first name beginning with J and a last name ending with antham.
    See http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Newspaper_clipping. Note that Lostpedia removed any other interpretation of the lacking part that previously had published.

  12. MKS says:

    [quote comment="63117"]MKS;
    Your analysis is brilliant. Now, if you can only explain the Polar bear.[/quote]

    Polar bears mate in the spring, but implementation of the egg doesn’t take place ’til the fall, then the female makes a den, goes into hibernation, the fetus develops, cub(s) is born. The gestation period for the cub is four months, but the mating takes place eight months earlier. Somehow the polar bears can slow down and almost stop the fetal development in that time. I think it would make sense for the Others to be interested in doing research on polar bears given their own reproductive problems and the bears unique reproductive abilities.

  13. Opie says:

    [quote comment="63094"]I’m sorry but i re watched it he says EITHER friend or family not neither[/quote]
    You’re right. I watched 3-4 times just for that line. He said “either.” Strange answer.

  14. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="63216"][quote comment="63117"]MKS;
    Your analysis is brilliant. Now, if you can only explain the Polar bear.[/quote]

    Polar bears mate in the spring, but implementation of the egg doesn’t take place ’til the fall, then the female makes a den, goes into hibernation, the fetus develops, cub(s) is born. The gestation period for the cub is four months, but the mating takes place eight months earlier. Somehow the polar bears can slow down and almost stop the fetal development in that time. I think it would make sense for the Others to be interested in doing research on polar bears given their own reproductive problems and the bears unique reproductive abilities.[/quote]
    Were the polar bears from Dharma or the Others? Seems to me that the bears were being researched by Dharma because of they appeared in an orientation video and not by the Others. I guess we still don’t know if the women’s issues are an old or new problem, but I took it as the bears were their for research into changing the Valenzetti equation and not for the Others.

  15. Mark S says:

    Kates Freckles go bye bye alot sooner than at the end of the episode, thats why she says the line to Sawyer “Since when have u started calling me kate” he cant call her freckles coz she doesnt have any due to the spacetime change. If you look harder you can see subtle changes in Bernard, Jin, Hurley, Sawyer and Juliette. Im not going to unleash the whole theory here because its all on my blog.

    Namaste.

  16. Hammer says:

    “I’m planting a flag here — when Des saved Charlie, he changed that past and present as well as the future. Charlie couldn’t swim in the first season, and he’s all of a sudden a swimming champion who makes an impressive dive in “Greatest Hits,” a dive that Mikhail needed scuba gear for. Like Charlie’s newfound innate swimming ability, perhaps in the re-made past/present/future, Christian Shepherd didn’t die. And maybe that’s why Kate seems to be conspicuously lacking her trademark freckles.”

    This may also explain why Kate is able to be “free” in the real world. Maybe in the flashforward she isn’t a fugitive?

  17. Tina says:

    Why isn’t “makeup” a reasonable answer for Kate’s complexion change? Seriously people, stretching much.

  18. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="63234"]Why isn’t “makeup” a reasonable answer for Kate’s complexion change? Seriously people, stretching much.[/quote]
    Could be Tina, but the show has put the clues in about “lost time”. Do we assume that they just a make up mistake by having Jack’s future beard all black but his current scruff has gray in it. I don’t think it’s that big of a stretch since the show has directed us to consider “lost time” and the implications of Des’s flashes and he and Charlie altering them.

    Remember, we still don’t know exactly why Dez knew who Charlie was on the street corner and why Charlie didn’t know Des. It is because someone altered events by using free will instead of fate?

  19. MKS says:

    [quote comment="63234"]Why isn’t “makeup” a reasonable answer for Kate’s complexion change? Seriously people, stretching much.[/quote]

    I agree. I think some might be over-thinking this.

  20. shadowstorm says:

    With regards to who is in the casket, anyone else notice the casket seemed to be pretty short? I mainly noticed this when there was the overhead shot of Jack standing at the side of the casket, and it appeared to be relatively short. If that is the case, then it limits the amount of possibilities as to whom is actually in there, as there were no pygmies or midgets on the flight that we know of ;)

    Although, the overhead shot seemed a little fuzzy or edited, as in possibly a forced perspective.

  21. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="63237"][quote comment="63234"]Why isn’t “makeup” a reasonable answer for Kate’s complexion change? Seriously people, stretching much.[/quote]

    I agree. I think some might be over-thinking this.[/quote]
    Since you are quick to knock down the freckles change. What are your thought on why Charlie has gone from a person that can’t swim to a great swimmer after a few episodes of changing fate?

  22. lost chicka says:

    rejus: Naomi could be with dharma. Dharma did the food drops BEFORE the 2 hatches exploded. before locke blew up the flame (i think thats what mikhail’s hatch was called) he told dharma that the hostiles have tooken over the island. If 2 hatches exploding wasn’t enough reason for Dharma to come, being told that the hostiles have tooken over sure would be.

    i agree with MKS that ben is not evil, or at least not as evil as we think he is. i think ben is a good guy doing good things but doing it the wrong way which is making him look like a bad guy. or maybe he is evil and i’m just trying to believe that there’s good in everyone (except of course juliet).

    the polar bears didn’t come from polar bear town like sawyer said when he shot it. the polar bears came from the zoo where kate & sawyer were being kept by the others. remember tom told sawyer it only took the bears 2 hours (or something like that). and i think MKS is right about why the others might be interested in polar bears.

  23. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="63241"][quote comment="63237"][quote comment="63234"]Why isn’t “makeup” a reasonable answer for Kate’s complexion change? Seriously people, stretching much.[/quote]

    I agree. I think some might be over-thinking this.[/quote]
    Since you are quick to knock down the freckles change. What are your thought on why Charlie has gone from a person that can’t swim to a great swimmer after a few episodes of changing fate?[/quote]

    _________________
    i think tina & mks are right here hammer. y’all are over thinkin this & looking to hard. sawyer is changing his ways. he’s laying off the nicknames on EVERYBODY if u haven’t noticed. no nicknames in this episode or last week i don’t think.

    and as for charlie swimming maybe he had forgotten how to swim, cuz i don’t think drug addicted rock gods do that much swimming. i’m sure claire or somebody could’ve taught him how to swim in the 90+ days they’ve been there. what else are they gonna do on a deserted island? watch TV? play video games? i doubt it.

  24. MKS says:

    [quote comment="63241"][quote comment="63237"][quote comment="63234"]Why isn’t “makeup” a reasonable answer for Kate’s complexion change? Seriously people, stretching much.[/quote]

    I agree. I think some might be over-thinking this.[/quote]
    Since you are quick to knock down the freckles change. What are your thought on why Charlie has gone from a person that can’t swim to a great swimmer after a few episodes of changing fate?[/quote]

    I just think there is a difference between freckles (a physical trade-mark one can’t do much about, especially on a sunny island), and an ability (something one can learn or not). It’s not like people’s hair-colors, eye-colors, etc. have changed.

  25. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="63242"]
    i agree with MKS that ben is not evil, or at least not as evil as we think he is. i think ben is a good guy doing good things but doing it the wrong way which is making him look like a bad guy. or maybe he is evil and i’m just trying to believe that there’s good in everyone (except of course juliet).[/quote]

    Poisoning your own father(in cold blood just ’cause he wasn’t a “nice” dad) and scores more to protect a secret island from people doing research to stop the end of the world…your right, no evil there.

    In history, mortals have proven that ultimate power breeds evil. They start off good, but power always transforms to abuse of power. That is why Ben is in his current situation. Abuse of power breeds comtempt, an eventual rebellion, and the cycle begins again. Ben was seen as a savior for the island, now he’s abusing his power. The Others see Locke is special and may the “one” to save them from Ben’s wayward abuse of power.

  26. Hammer says:

    MKS/Tina – I hear you, it’s just that the easter eggs are everywhere. People need to use everything they see to help support a theory. I haven’t looked at the early Kate flash backs to confirm, but I’m pretty sure she didn’t use make up before the crash, so I don’t feel it’s a huge stretch to think that we have been given a clue by change both Jack’s and Kate’s appearance in the futureflash.

  27. MKS says:

    [quote comment="63247"][quote comment="63242"]
    i agree with MKS that ben is not evil, or at least not as evil as we think he is. i think ben is a good guy doing good things but doing it the wrong way which is making him look like a bad guy. or maybe he is evil and i’m just trying to believe that there’s good in everyone (except of course juliet).[/quote]

    Poisoning your own father(in cold blood just ’cause he wasn’t a “nice” dad) and scores more to protect a secret island from people doing research to stop the end of the world…your right, no evil there.

    In history, mortals have proven that ultimate power breeds evil. They start off good, but power always transforms to abuse of power. That is why Ben is in his current situation. Abuse of power breeds comtempt, an eventual rebellion, and the cycle begins again. Ben was seen as a savior for the island, now he’s abusing his power. The Others see Locke is special and may the “one” to save them from Ben’s wayward abuse of power.[/quote]
    _______________________________

    But remember that Kate also killed her own father (she might have thought it was her stepfather at the time but that does not make it better), Locke killed his father (he knew his father was going to die and had told Sawyer he would not let him out of there ’til ol’ dad was dead), Jin cut his dad out of his life permanently, etc. It’s not like Ben is somehow super-evil because he killed his dad (the Others/ Hostiles killed the rest of the Dharma people), not unless you also say that Locke, Kate, etc. are evil.

  28. Tina says:

    Hammer:

    Charlie never said he was a bad swimmer, just that he didn’t swim. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t, just means he didn’t swim. I’m going with Lostchika, drug addicted rock stars probaby don’t swim too much, the paranoia might keep one out of the pool/ocean for fear of sharks and creepy crawlies.

    As far as freckles/make up goes for Kate, the flash forward gives the implication that she’s living a life much different than the one she did while on the run. the makeup, fancy car, nice clothes all support this idea more than some kind of time jump that changes a genetic characteristic of a character. I think the freckles doubting is simply the concoction of overactive Lostlover imaginations.

  29. Kathy says:

    [quote comment="63211"]1) Charlie didn’t try to escape from the room because didn’t want Desmond to drown. We know that if the station flooded there’s no escape for anyone inside.
    [/quote]

    I just figured that Charlie hd already resigned himself to die and was saving Desmond’s life by locking Desmond out. Penny was on the screen and Desmond would have run straight into the control room as well. There was no time to explain to Desmond about the grenade (plus Desmond probably would not have listened with the excitement of being in contact with Penny) so he just figured out in his mind this was where he was supposed to die.

  30. MKS says:

    [quote comment="63254"][quote comment="63211"]1) Charlie didn’t try to escape from the room because didn’t want Desmond to drown. We know that if the station flooded there’s no escape for anyone inside.
    [/quote]

    I just figured that Charlie hd already resigned himself to die and was saving Desmond’s life by locking Desmond out. Penny was on the screen and Desmond would have run straight into the control room as well. There was no time to explain to Desmond about the grenade (plus Desmond probably would not have listened with the excitement of being in contact with Penny) so he just figured out in his mind this was where he was supposed to die.[/quote]
    ____________________________

    I agree. There was no way to lock that room from the outside, and the only way to keep Desmond from that room (and thus from getting killed by the granade as well) was to lock him out.

  31. Meg says:

    What has not made sense to me for a while now is this. Ben was originally part of dharma and then he killed every. But that happened a long time ago. Ben looked much younger when he killed them. Plus that was before he had stolen his daughter. and she is 16 now. So it had to be over 16 years ago. So all the darhma people are dead. Yet darhma still sends desmond out to the island to manage that 1st hatch. And they are still doing the food drops. Someone else said that ben is the one communicating with darhma telling them that everything is fine. That seems strange to me. Ben was the janitor. Why would the people in charge of the food drops think the janitor is now goign to be the main and only point of contact with the outside world?

  32. shadowstorm says:

    As far as Charlie escaping tho, it looked as if there was plenty of room for him to get out of the port that was blown in by the grenade. There even seemed to be a lingering moment showing the port over Charlie’s shoulder as he floated in the room. Intentional? Perhaps, but it certainly leaves the option that he could have waited for the room to equalize with the water pressure and then swam through the port. Though, again, that brings up the prediction part of Charlie perhaps thinking he needed to die in order for everyone else to be rescued.

  33. Bobola says:

    By “explain the POLAR BEARS”…I meant;
    WHY is it so FAKE looking…ha. The one that attacked Walt was like shag carpet.
    Ok, escaped from a Zoo works for me. Good call.

    BUT the comment that Charlie drowned so that Desmond would NOT…is unterlly absurd!
    He stayed in that room because he thought he had to to fullfill the vision Des had of Claire geiing rescued.
    (we have been over this.)
    Plus; Charlie knew if he went back to the “world” he would just be a shadow of his mythic self after his fame from dying.
    Now, if he had WANTED to; he could have easily walked into the HUGE room Desmond was in while the water was still low and they both had PLENTY of time to dive into the opening at the bottom from whence they came and swim back up to the surface. Possibly could have had all the time in the world too if they had been able to seal the door from Desmond’s side. Even with the door open, that BIG room was not going to get filled up for a while. Plenty of time—hell, the small room didn’t fill up all that fast either. The only trick was if he did not choose to escape right away, the pressure of the water would have kept the door closed (it opend into the room as I remember). Still might have swam out thru the broken port…HE WANTED TO DIE.

    Polar Bear Joke;
    Bear walks into a Bar
    Bartender; “What will you have?”
    A mintute passes and finally the Bear says;
    “I’ll have a beer.”
    Bartender; Hey, Why the big Pause?

    That’s for you Lost Chica.

  34. Bobbi says:

    Thought I’d put in my own two cents on the freckles…

    I have barely any half the year and faceful in summer (even with sunblock). Perhaps it is to merely say she doesn’t spend much time outdoors anymore, maybe she’s depressed like Jack. Also, alot of women as they get older, lose their freckles….and Jack having grey in his beard would also back the aging theory. I’d sure love to know why she is no longer a fugitive though!

  35. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="63252"]Hammer:

    Charlie never said he was a bad swimmer, just that he didn’t swim. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t, just means he didn’t swim. I’m going with Lostchika, drug addicted rock stars probaby don’t swim too much, the paranoia might keep one out of the pool/ocean for fear of sharks and creepy crawlies.
    [/quote]
    I generally agres with this, and to take it a step further, back in season 1, he didn’t want to take a chance jumping into the potentially shark-infested waters, and just said something (“I don’t swim” or “I can’t swim” or whatever he said) that would be his excuse for not jumping in.

    When he claimed to be a champion swimmer, he was most likely lying – he just wanted Jack and Sayid to agree to let him got to the LG station so he could fulfill Desmond’s vision.

  36. Jules says:

    I still wanna know if Nikki and Paolo were a goof or if their story was really meaningful. I haven’t seen anyone use that radio. Thoughts?

  37. SnappyPappy says:

    [quote comment="63216"]
    Polar bears mate in the spring, but implementation of the egg doesn’t take place ’til the fall, then the female makes a den, goes into hibernation, the fetus develops, cub(s) is born. The gestation period for the cub is four months, but the mating takes place eight months earlier. Somehow the polar bears can slow down and almost stop the fetal development in that time.
    [/quote]
    That is all good and fine – except – if the polar bears are truly in the southern hemisphere for any length of time, their reproductive cycle, hormones, gestation/fetal development will adapt to that solar influence – so when you say spring – fall may be the answer – and vice/versa.

  38. rejus says:

    [quote comment="63242"]rejus: Naomi could be with dharma. Dharma did the food drops BEFORE the 2 hatches exploded. before locke blew up the flame (i think thats what mikhail’s hatch was called) he told dharma that the hostiles have tooken over the island. If 2 hatches exploding wasn’t enough reason for Dharma to come, being told that the hostiles have tooken over sure would be.
    [/quote]

    Lost Chicka:Yeah, you made a good point and you’re probably right.
    I said that because when Ben is talking about naomi’s people searching for the island it seems to me he knows they have been doing it for a very long time, but it’s just personal interpretation….

  39. Steven says:

    Something really strange in season 3 finale…In future-flash why does Jack say something like “if my father is not drunker than me you can fire me….”. Jacks father is dead….or is he?

  40. carebare2115 says:

    jack’s dad is dead, i’m pretty sure jack was just being facetious (you can tell by the way the other dr. reacts; ie, rolling his eyes).. anyway, if jack’s dad wasn’t dead, jack would have never gone to the island.

  41. Nathan says:

    Mabey I am all wonky, but has anyone considered something like a Lion Witch and the Wardrobe type thing happening? Kate has gotten freckles from being out in the sun on the island. Jack has gotten grey from all the stress he is under on the island. Poof, sometime in the future, everyone comes back to the real world, the spare room as it were, and are back in their original real world states, but still holding all the memories of the island. The kids in the book got old in Narnia, but came back to the real world the same age they left. The only question now, is when or how did they enter the wardrobe?

  42. Francesco says:

    [quote comment="63262"]What has not made sense to me for a while now is this. Ben was originally part of dharma and then he killed every. But that happened a long time ago. Ben looked much younger when he killed them. Plus that was before he had stolen his daughter. and she is 16 now. So it had to be over 16 years ago. So all the darhma people are dead. Yet darhma still sends desmond out to the island to manage that 1st hatch. And they are still doing the food drops. Someone else said that ben is the one communicating with darhma telling them that everything is fine. That seems strange to me. Ben was the janitor. Why would the people in charge of the food drops think the janitor is now goign to be the main and only point of contact with the outside world?[/quote]

    I think Mikhail was the person in charge of communication with the outside world and that throughout the relevant period (both before and after purge) he would have been the point of contact. This would make sense given Mikhail’s comments when Locke and company discovered the communication station and the “deal” Mikhail had with the others/hostiles.

  43. Pam says:

    [quote comment="63376"]Mabey I am all wonky, but has anyone considered something like a Lion Witch and the Wardrobe type thing happening? Kate has gotten freckles from being out in the sun on the island. Jack has gotten grey from all the stress he is under on the island. Poof, sometime in the future, everyone comes back to the real world, the spare room as it were, and are back in their original real world states, but still holding all the memories of the island. The kids in the book got old in Narnia, but came back to the real world the same age they left. The only question now, is when or how did they enter the wardrobe?[/quote]
    I like this idea, but that means nothing in the Losties real world lives would have changed and Kate would probably be in jail in the flashforward. Unless the way they get into the “wardrobe” is by the plane crash and in real life they crash, but don’t spend however long on an island fighting for their lives. And so if the crash is the journey through the wardrobe how do they get back?

  44. dunt says:

    [quote comment="63262"]What has not made sense to me for a while now is this. Ben was originally part of dharma and then he killed every. But that happened a long time ago. Ben looked much younger when he killed them. Plus that was before he had stolen his daughter. and she is 16 now. So it had to be over 16 years ago. So all the darhma people are dead. Yet darhma still sends desmond out to the island to manage that 1st hatch. And they are still doing the food drops. Someone else said that ben is the one communicating with darhma telling them that everything is fine. That seems strange to me. Ben was the janitor. Why would the people in charge of the food drops think the janitor is now goign to be the main and only point of contact with the outside world?[/quote]

    Dharma did not send Desmond to manage the hatch. He was on a solo race around the world for the widmore company when he crashed and the guy originally in the hatch thought he may have been his replacement. Desmond ended up killing this guy when he found out that his boat had been restored by him and that guy had lied to him about most everything.

  45. hottie!! says:

    your show is totally wicked, i watch sti every wednesday, im a big fan. i think that people who dont watch it are just freaks because dey stupio, its da best show ever!peace!!!
    love,hottie

    p.s.tell jack and sowyer that i love them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  46. hottie#1 says:

    lost is the best show ever, it has alot of mysteries which kind of get me thinking alot. (i love swoyer)

  47. hottie#1 says:

    i agree with whats her face, because charlie only locked himself out to save desmond , and if he wouldn’t have locked the door from desmond trying to save him, teh whole entire place would have flooded

  48. clabberking says:

    Two questions —

    Why does Naomi tell the Losties they’re all dead on the outside? There’s no reason to believe her, but what advantage does she gain from telling the story?

    In the last scene outside the airfield, to whom does Kate have to get home?

  49. Curiously two .com websites have sprung up based on Jack and Kate’s licence plate numbers (2SAQ321 & 4QKD695 respectively) from the Season 3 finale.

    There appears to be some kind of ARG going on. It is creating a buzz in many of the Lost forums as new clues appear.

  50. FIONA GREEN says:

    CERTAINLY LOTS OF TWISTS AND MYSTRIES IN SEASON 3 AND ASSUMPTIONS TO BE MADE. I AGREE IF THAT IS JACKS FUTURE STAY ON THE ISLAND MATE. I WAS CONFUSED AT FIRST WHEN SHOWING JACK WITH A BEARD AND BEING AN ALCOHOLIC AND PILL POPPER, THEN WHEN HE MENTIONED HIS FATHER I THOUGHT WE HAD GONE FURTHER BACK INTOHIS PAST – UNTIL THE END WHEN HE MET KATE AND SAID HE GOT ON THE PLANE EACH WEEK HOPING IT WOULD CRASH AND TAKE THEM BACK- WAIT IN ANTISIPATION FOR THE NEXT SEASON WAS NOT SURE IF THERE WAS ANOTHER- IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED IF THAT WAS THE END

  51. ForeverLost says:

    [quote comment="63416"]Two questions —

    Why does Naomi tell the Losties they’re all dead on the outside? There’s no reason to believe her, but what advantage does she gain from telling the story?

    In the last scene outside the airfield, to whom does Kate have to get home?[/quote]

    What if Kate has to get home to the marshall that was chasing her. In her flashbacks, it seemed that his pursuit of Kate was more of a personal nature.

  52. dj invancouverwa says:

    Nice to read all the views, here is mine:
    The ship does “pinpoint” the lost crew but with explosives! Jack is dazed and dreaming. He did just tell Kate he loved her so who else would be in his subconcious? Well needless to say, Loveable ol Ben saves them from the ship and here we go with more LOST!! thanks for sharing all.

  53. lost chicka says:

    kate’s using makeup. what could that mean??? the i wanna wear makeup gene is finally kicking in? or maybe she finally has someone to look nice for.

    ben didn’t have to sign letters/emails/whatever as Ben Linus – Janitor. he could’ve used whoever was in charge’s name.

    did the guy in the yellow tee look like paulo to anybody else? they showed him a lot in this ep. hmmm???? ;P

  54. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="63501"][quote comment="63416"]Two questions —

    Why does Naomi tell the Losties they’re all dead on the outside? There’s no reason to believe her, but what advantage does she gain from telling the story?

    In the last scene outside the airfield, to whom does Kate have to get home?[/quote]

    What if Kate has to get home to the marshall that was chasing her. In her flashbacks, it seemed that his pursuit of Kate was more of a personal nature.[/quote]

    ___________
    that would be a really cool thing but there’s 1 itty bitty problem with that. the marshal is dead. d-e-a-d, dead. other than that little problem tho, i luv it.

  55. john says:

    I found it interesting they went through the whole of season 3 without really mentioning the outpost from the end of season 2. People wanted to see that explained which is why they did that with the ending so I feel rather let down

  56. William says:

    [quote comment="63084"]I have been saying this for a long time now. When Ben said they were not the bad guys he was not lying. I strongly believe that Ben’s motives are good. He might be in over his head right now, and is thus making some bad/ rash decisions, but we’ll find out in time that he was justified in many of his actions.

    Try to look at things from his (possible) point of view.

    As a child he is brought onto a mysterious island. He is there as the child of the janitor though, and thus his opportunities are somewhat limited, i.e. it is his job to become the janitor like his father. But Ben is different. His lonelyness and experiences teach him to be more in-tune with his surroundings. He has a “sixth sense” if you will. By chance he meets the original occupants of the island- the ones that were there before a big company/ organization decided to use the island’s special properties for research, human experimentation, ..?.., in order to …?…world power, profit, control…?.. From these original people he learns the truth and decides that the organization (Dharma) needs to be stopped.

    He waits patiently for years while learning important information along the way.His unassuming job as janitor allows him to get into many limited access places without arising suspision. He watches, he learns, he becomes an astute observer and gains great knowledge of the workings of the Dharma stations and research.

    In the mean-time Dharma exercises strong control of then island. They try to get rid of all those who get in their way. When a research ship lands on the island, they release a chemical weapon to kill them all. Ben manages to rescue and save a little baby girl and adopts her. He knows time is getting critical.

    Then the time comes to act. Ben has known this day would come. He has to kill the Dharma people (maybe even sacrifice his love Annie in the process?). He helps the Others get their island back. He also becomes a leader by organizing the coup from the inside, being able to communicate with the spirits of the island (the sixth sense), and by being able to fool the outside world into thinking all is as it should be on the Island (by keeping up communications, and thus keeping the food-drops coming).

    Unfortunatelly, Dharma’s evil reign over the island left some dire consequences,i.e. women are not able to have babies. For years Ben does his best to find a solution to this problem, even bringing in experts from the outside (Juliette).

    One day a plane crashes on the island. Ben knows this could spell dissaster. While he knows that the island is invisible to the outside world thanks to Dharma’s jamming/ clouding devices, these new people could seriously jeopardize him and his people. They take the children to keep them save (and fed, and housed,…)and warn the Losties to stay on their side of the island. But the Losties don’t listen.

    The other problemis that the Losties are trying to find ways to get off the island. Something Ben knows he can’t allow to happen. As things begin to intensify, Ben is put under tremendous pressure. He can’t seem to keep everything going. In addition, there are amongst the Losties others like him- those with a sixth sense (Walt, Locke). He has always had a great faith and trust in the island, but now things are becoming unreveled. He is becoming desperate. This does not mean he has suddenly become a bad man, just that he is going through a trying period.

    So overall, Ben is the good guy. He does know what is best. Will our Losties find this truth outin time? Will the island be saved? Will the islands power end up being used to end the world- or at least cause some harm? Will Jack realize in time that he and the other Losties are now meant to stay on the island?

    What do you think?[/quote]
    My God, you are completely right. I have been looking around for some to come up with the same theory about Ben that I had. The only part that I hadn’t thought about was Ben finding Alex. Does that mean he was hiding her from DHARMA before he killed them all?
    I have one more question for you. Do you have any estimate of time Ben had been with the others after he killed off DHARMA?
    thanks a ton

  57. William says:

    My God, you are completely right. I have been looking around for some to come up with the same theory about Ben that I had. The only part that I hadn’t thought about was Ben finding Alex. Does that mean he was hiding her from DHARMA before he killed them all?
    I have one more question for you. Do you have any estimate of time Ben had been with the others after he killed off DHARMA?
    thanks a ton

  58. lost junkie says:

    Here is my theory on this whole future stuff. I am going to put a a spin on this and am probably way off but here it goes. What if Jack and Kate and I think Sawyer is involved somehow also were on the island before when Ben was a child with his father. They left the island for whatever reason and then Ben and the others kill all the Dharma people. So when Jack keeps saying they have to go back at the end of the show to Kate maybe thats when we fast forward and that is what we are watching now? Maybe Jack and Kate are there to get revenge on Ben and his people,maybe the boat that is waiting out in the water is with Jack and thats why Jack was so persistant to use the radio. I think what we were watching were flashbacks into the past. Just my 2 cents.

  59. marco says:

    [quote comment="63262"]What has not made sense to me for a while now is this. Ben was originally part of dharma and then he killed every. But that happened a long time ago. Ben looked much younger when he killed them. Plus that was before he had stolen his daughter. and she is 16 now. So it had to be over 16 years ago. So all the darhma people are dead. Yet darhma still sends desmond out to the island to manage that 1st hatch. And they are still doing the food drops. Someone else said that ben is the one communicating with darhma telling them that everything is fine. That seems strange to me. Ben was the janitor. Why would the people in charge of the food drops think the janitor is now goign to be the main and only point of contact with the outside world?[/quote]

    its mikhail that does the communications with the outside world! remember, he was the one stationed in the (flame) i could be wrong on the name, but the one locke blew up in enter 77 or whatever!

  60. mikec says:

    The whole thing about Ben taking Alex does anyone think the whole illness was just the chemical weapon that the hostiles used during the purge and they had possibly used it before in smaller doses, this would explain why Kelvin would have had them bio suits as procaution (he then attempted to use the ‘illness’ to keep Desmond scared and in the Swan station. This could also mean that Rousseau arrived on the island at the time of the purge and the other people in her science group just got killed in the same way as the Dharma by accident (getting in the infected zrea) or perhaps the hostiles learnt of their prescense and killed them in the same way as the Dharma but spared Rousseau as she was pregnant. Ben then waits for her to give birth then takes Alex, he spares Danielle as she gave birth without dying. This only works if Rousseau gave birth on the island which i’m not sure. It does explain though how Rousseau thought her team were sick. They weren’t they were jsut external victims of the purge.

  61. Dud says:

    Good point John. What seems apparent now is that Penny and the unexplained outpost in the snow are separate from Naomi and whoever she is working for. Hopefully there will be a lot more from them now that the communication pathways are open. Lost is so good at diverting attention away from things that seemed so important earlier on – such as the numbers and the myriad conections between characters. Will these connections ever be explained? They are too numerous to be coincidental.

    As for Ben being simply a ‘janitor’. Do we know this for sure? Ben has recieved his whole education on the island and Horace says early on he is ‘special’. Ben closes Horace’s eyes after the ‘purge’ – a sign of respect he bestows on no other victims. It is possible he has learned a lot more about Dharma and the island than his father realises. Isn’t it more likely that Ben was wanted on the island than his father anyway? Perhaps he has a higher standing behind the scenes, which is why he can communicate with the Dharma directors. Otherwise, he has used his manipulative powers to strike a deal with the outside, playing the game as he does so well.

    I would certainly agree that he is not a black/white good/bad character. He operates in a grey area and will surely be central right through to the end. Also, I’m fascinated by the idea there will be more ‘outside’ perspective through Jack and Kate. I’m not disappointed by this development and we know there must be some way into the island by what Desmond and Naomi have managed independently. Who cares about Kate’s freckles? She is obviously not as free as she would like. She has to return to someone – “he is expecting me” – who has a hold over her; probably someone powerful involved in the whole mystery. Perhaps he arranged Kate’s freedom from the murder charge. If there is an attempt to get back initiated by Jack, you can guarantee she will be by his side. Her reluctance is more likely due to being manipulated by someone else

  62. Dud says:

    [/quote] its mikhail that does the communications with the outside world! remember, he was the one stationed in the (flame) i could be wrong on the name, but the one locke blew up in enter 77 or whatever![/quote]

    true. but mikhail is not a dharma original

  63. MKS says:

    [quote comment="63713"][/quote] its mikhail that does the communications with the outside world! remember, he was the one stationed in the (flame) i could be wrong on the name, but the one locke blew up in enter 77 or whatever![/quote]

    true. but mikhail is not a dharma original[/quote]

    I’m pretty sure he is a Dharma original. He mentioned something at one point of them letting him live at the station and him staying out of their business.

  64. Pam says:

    [quote comment="63612"]Here is my theory on this whole future stuff. I am going to put a a spin on this and am probably way off but here it goes. What if Jack and Kate and I think Sawyer is involved somehow also were on the island before when Ben was a child with his father. They left the island for whatever reason and then Ben and the others kill all the Dharma people. So when Jack keeps saying they have to go back at the end of the show to Kate maybe thats when we fast forward and that is what we are watching now? Maybe Jack and Kate are there to get revenge on Ben and his people,maybe the boat that is waiting out in the water is with Jack and thats why Jack was so persistant to use the radio. I think what we were watching were flashbacks into the past. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]
    I think that’s interesting, but it would be incredibly hard for the producers to sell to the average viewer and to end the show in a way almost everyone would understand and accept.

  65. Pam says:

    [quote comment="63518"][quote comment="63501"][quote comment="63416"]Two questions —

    Why does Naomi tell the Losties they’re all dead on the outside? There’s no reason to believe her, but what advantage does she gain from telling the story?

    In the last scene outside the airfield, to whom does Kate have to get home?[/quote]

    What if Kate has to get home to the marshall that was chasing her. In her flashbacks, it seemed that his pursuit of Kate was more of a personal nature.[/quote]

    ___________
    that would be a really cool thing but there’s 1 itty bitty problem with that. the marshal is dead. d-e-a-d, dead. other than that little problem tho, i luv it.[/quote]
    But we don’t know anything about the time period of the “flash forward” or the abilities of the island to manipulate the dead or anything.

  66. Dud says:

    [quote comment="63716"][quote comment="63713"][/quote] its mikhail that does the communications with the outside world! remember, he was the one stationed in the (flame) i could be wrong on the name, but the one locke blew up in enter 77 or whatever![/quote]

    true. but mikhail is not a dharma original[/quote]

    I’m pretty sure he is a Dharma original. He mentioned something at one point of them letting him live at the station and him staying out of their business.[/quote]

    At first he tells sayid and kate he is the last surviving member of the dharma initiative but later denies this and says he is one of the others. Could be either. Possible he survived purge if hidden away up at the flame and then agreed to continue on others’ side. Would explain why Ben is so nervous of him when he takes Juliet up there. There is no clear answer though.

    He says he was recruited by a ‘very special man’. Not clear whether he is talking about Ben or not.

  67. lost chicka says:

    lost junkie #58: sombody else out there thinks the same as me! jack’s “flash forwards” being the future would just be to wierd. they’ve always done flashbacks & the flashes would make more sense if they were flashbacks. that would/could give sawyer more reasons to want to kill tom, more reasons for why jack was so pissed about ben being prisoner besides jack just being a “good person”, and ben & kate’s wierd breakfast.

    mikec #60: i like it. and rousseau could be there “experiment” of being able to give birth on the island if you concieved off the island. it would give juliet more reason to think the problem was in conception.

    dud #61: i’ve said this a couple times, i think that horace wanted ben on the island not roger. horace was just really strange & cared more about ben (or at least it seemed that way to me) then roger. horace & ben had some sort of wierd connection and i think that DHARMA was doing experiments on the children (why ben hated dharma so much). and then ben wound up carrying that over to the hostiles.

  68. William says:

    [quote comment="63084"]I have been saying this for a long time now. When Ben said they were not the bad guys he was not lying. I strongly believe that Ben’s motives are good. He might be in over his head right now, and is thus making some bad/ rash decisions, but we’ll find out in time that he was justified in many of his actions.

    Try to look at things from his (possible) point of view.

    As a child he is brought onto a mysterious island. He is there as the child of the janitor though, and thus his opportunities are somewhat limited, i.e. it is his job to become the janitor like his father. But Ben is different. His lonelyness and experiences teach him to be more in-tune with his surroundings. He has a “sixth sense” if you will. By chance he meets the original occupants of the island- the ones that were there before a big company/ organization decided to use the island’s special properties for research, human experimentation, ..?.., in order to …?…world power, profit, control…?.. From these original people he learns the truth and decides that the organization (Dharma) needs to be stopped.

    He waits patiently for years while learning important information along the way.His unassuming job as janitor allows him to get into many limited access places without arising suspision. He watches, he learns, he becomes an astute observer and gains great knowledge of the workings of the Dharma stations and research.

    In the mean-time Dharma exercises strong control of then island. They try to get rid of all those who get in their way. When a research ship lands on the island, they release a chemical weapon to kill them all. Ben manages to rescue and save a little baby girl and adopts her. He knows time is getting critical.

    Then the time comes to act. Ben has known this day would come. He has to kill the Dharma people (maybe even sacrifice his love Annie in the process?). He helps the Others get their island back. He also becomes a leader by organizing the coup from the inside, being able to communicate with the spirits of the island (the sixth sense), and by being able to fool the outside world into thinking all is as it should be on the Island (by keeping up communications, and thus keeping the food-drops coming).

    Unfortunatelly, Dharma’s evil reign over the island left some dire consequences,i.e. women are not able to have babies. For years Ben does his best to find a solution to this problem, even bringing in experts from the outside (Juliette).

    One day a plane crashes on the island. Ben knows this could spell dissaster. While he knows that the island is invisible to the outside world thanks to Dharma’s jamming/ clouding devices, these new people could seriously jeopardize him and his people. They take the children to keep them save (and fed, and housed,…)and warn the Losties to stay on their side of the island. But the Losties don’t listen.

    The other problemis that the Losties are trying to find ways to get off the island. Something Ben knows he can’t allow to happen. As things begin to intensify, Ben is put under tremendous pressure. He can’t seem to keep everything going. In addition, there are amongst the Losties others like him- those with a sixth sense (Walt, Locke). He has always had a great faith and trust in the island, but now things are becoming unreveled. He is becoming desperate. This does not mean he has suddenly become a bad man, just that he is going through a trying period.

    So overall, Ben is the good guy. He does know what is best. Will our Losties find this truth outin time? Will the island be saved? Will the islands power end up being used to end the world- or at least cause some harm? Will Jack realize in time that he and the other Losties are now meant to stay on the island?

    What do you think?[/quote]

  69. FunkyDudley says:

    - lost junkie/lost chicka (58/67).
    I can’t see how this works. If they had been on the island together before, how comes they act as though they don’t know anything about it; about the others, the hatches, about Rousseau? And how come they act as strangers to each other? Although there is that discrepancy between Desmond and Charlie having met each other before when Charlie was busking.

    Isn’t it a more interesting switch to reveal that Jack and Kate get off – but at what price? Also, the audience needs someone like Jack to trust if the mystery is to be revealed from outside the island.

    I wouldn’t put it past the writers to play a double bluff as you suggest though.

  70. aonghus fallon says:

    Just an idea – but what if the island were a central point providing access to numerous parallel realities? Access to each reality would depend on precise co-ordinates. Hence Ben’s explicit instructions to Michael.
    The characters are rescued and return home – only to find that they have returned to a reality not their own. In this reality, their parallel all selves died in the crash and their bodies are at the bottom of the sea. This makes it easy for the characters to resume the lives led by their (now-dead) parallel selves. However their parallel selves made different choices – choices which the existing characters cannot or will not change. Michael returns back to the hospital to discover his other self never exposed his father’s negligence. Having lost his father once, he is reluctant to set the same chain of events in motion again. However, this means living with the consequences of his father’s behaviour – hence the drink problem.
    Kate never killed her step-father and isn’t a hunted fugitive. This would explain the attitude of both characters in the final scene. Jack wants to return back to the reality where his father died. Kate naturally doesn’t – it would mean being a fugitive all over again. Furthermore, their situation makes the title still appropriate – the characters are still ‘lost’, in that they are not in their proper reality. They still need to go home. In the meantime, they get to see what might have happened had they not made some of their life-changing decisions .

  71. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="63713"][/quote] its mikhail that does the communications with the outside world! remember, he was the one stationed in the (flame) i could be wrong on the name, but the one locke blew up in enter 77 or whatever![/quote]

    true. but mikhail is not a dharma original[/quote]
    And neither was Desmond. He was not sent by DHARMA to run the Hatch, he went wayward in a boat race and ended up on the island.

  72. t'other says:

    - aonghus (70)
    interesting idea but if they died in the parallel reality and their bodies were found, as naomi suggests, how do they explain their return to the rest of that world? i assume they escape back to the reality from which naomi came, if it’s her ship that eventually takes them away.

  73. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="63854"]- lost junkie/lost chicka (58/67).
    I can’t see how this works. If they had been on the island together before, how comes they act as though they don’t know anything about it; about the others, the hatches, about Rousseau? And how come they act as strangers to each other? Although there is that discrepancy between Desmond and Charlie having met each other before when Charlie was busking.

    Isn’t it a more interesting switch to reveal that Jack and Kate get off – but at what price? Also, the audience needs someone like Jack to trust if the mystery is to be revealed from outside the island.

    I wouldn’t put it past the writers to play a double bluff as you suggest though.[/quote]
    Also, remember in Des’s episode (correct me if I’m wrong) when it appeared that he was time traveling, it was when he was hit by the blast from turning the key. He ended up naked back on the island with this new ability to see flashes. Are we to assume that he too left the island for a period of time and came back?

  74. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="63854"]- lost junkie/lost chicka (58/67).
    I can’t see how this works. If they had been on the island together before, how comes they act as though they don’t know anything about it; about the others, the hatches, about Rousseau? And how come they act as strangers to each other? Although there is that discrepancy between Desmond and Charlie having met each other before when Charlie was busking.

    Isn’t it a more interesting switch to reveal that Jack and Kate get off – but at what price? Also, the audience needs someone like Jack to trust if the mystery is to be revealed from outside the island.

    I wouldn’t put it past the writers to play a double bluff as you suggest though.[/quote]

    why would they pretend to not know anything? because a) they’re not pretending, they really don’t remember anything that happened on the island or only very little, b) they didn’t want anybody to know they’ve been through it before cuz they don’t want to be the heroes this time or another reason, c) they’re conning everybody so that this time they can get off the island the right way at the right time.

    maybe they didn’t know about Danielle. maybe they didn’t know very much about the island since it seems VERY complicated. maybe they’re still figuring out the others. they could’ve been in the hatches or been played like a fiddle by the others. or maybe they never really knew anything about the island and were just plane crash survivors (or whatever survivors) that time too & that’s why they don’t know very much about the island or the people on it. or maybe (you’re gonna love this one) me & lost junkie are wrong.

  75. rejus says:

    [quote comment="63923"]
    why would they pretend to not know anything? because a) they’re not pretending, they really don’t remember anything that happened on the island or only very little, b) they didn’t want anybody to know they’ve been through it before cuz they don’t want to be the heroes this time or another reason, c) they’re conning everybody so that this time they can get off the island the right way at the right time.

    maybe they didn’t know about Danielle. maybe they didn’t know very much about the island since it seems VERY complicated. maybe they’re still figuring out the others. they could’ve been in the hatches or been played like a fiddle by the others. or maybe they never really knew anything about the island and were just plane crash survivors (or whatever survivors) that time too & that’s why they don’t know very much about the island or the people on it. or maybe (you’re gonna love this one) me & lost junkie are wrong.[/quote]

    Lost chicka, damon lindelof somehow confirmed it’s a ‘flash forward’ and NOT a flashback http://yahoo.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/blog/index.jsp?uuid=9c9aafc1-e118-4d0c-9686-6b982fbd4e87&page=2.
    Speculating is always funny…. but that seems quite a given…

  76. Hammer says:

    Does anyone remember if the sound fx were different for Jack’s ffs than from the fbs? I hope they will be different since it looks like S4 will be using ffs and we still need fbs to find out what happened to Annie and hopefully get more background on Danielle.

  77. Robert S. says:

    At the time Charlies said he was a swimming champion, I assumed he was lying so they wouldn’t worry about him or interrupt his attempt to fulfill his destiny. I still think that makes the most sense.

    And Sawyer definitely dropped “Freckles” simply because he’s trying to change and promised to quit with the nicknames a few episodes back.

  78. Marie says:

    Perhaps if the island is as mysterious as it seems, the dead are not really dead and those of us who are true fans of Charlie; will realize he is not dead after all, but in reality only the ones who have “died” have been rescued and the others who are “alive” are still LOST.

  79. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="64103"]At the time Charlies said he was a swimming champion, I assumed he was lying so they wouldn’t worry about him or interrupt his attempt to fulfill his destiny. I still think that makes the most sense.

    And Sawyer definitely dropped “Freckles” simply because he’s trying to change and promised to quit with the nicknames a few episodes back.[/quote]
    Yeah, except for the fact they he accomplished the dive. Someone who can’t swim can’t make that dive. Also, the purpose of his flashback was to show that he had learned how to swim. Why would he have drowned in Des’s flash because he couldn’t swim…if he could swim?

    Right now, I am leaning heavily towards the changing of fate can also change previous events (when changing fate happens on the island).

  80. Hammer says:

    I also think that Ford dropped “Freckles” because he thinks that she really loves Jack. His nick name calling agreement expired and his “going to the good side” dimeanor ended when he killed the real Sawyer. He’s back in a dark place, back to the old “Sawyer”.

  81. Aonghus Fallon says:

    I think there’s going to be a certain amount of spin to explain this problem away, helped by the fact that the bodies are in a place where total verification is impossible. Whereas verifying the survivors’ identities is possible. Thus this parallel world accepts them – on balance of probability, as does the plane company, for obvious reasons. In fact, the company may play a crucial role in selling the idea to the public. The characters play along because the actual explanation is too preposterous to be believed by anybody.
    Alternatively Naomi’s search team may have discovered the plane while looking for Des and its location only known by them.

  82. MKS says:

    [quote comment="64112"][quote comment="64103"]At the time Charlies said he was a swimming champion, I assumed he was lying so they wouldn’t worry about him or interrupt his attempt to fulfill his destiny. I still think that makes the most sense.

    And Sawyer definitely dropped “Freckles” simply because he’s trying to change and promised to quit with the nicknames a few episodes back.[/quote]
    Yeah, except for the fact they he accomplished the dive. Someone who can’t swim can’t make that dive. Also, the purpose of his flashback was to show that he had learned how to swim. Why would he have drowned in Des’s flash because he couldn’t swim…if he could swim?

    Right now, I am leaning heavily towards the changing of fate can also change previous events (when changing fate happens on the island).[/quote]
    _______________________________________

    He never said he could not swim, he said he wasn’t a good swimmer. I consider myself a pretty bad swimmer, but if need be, I can swim a few lengths of the pool or dive. I think Charlie was lying when he said he was a champion swimmer in order to be allowed to make that dive without great protest from Jack and Sayid.

  83. Katie says:

    [quote comment="64112"][quote comment="64103"]At the time Charlies said he was a swimming champion, I assumed he was lying so they wouldn’t worry about him or interrupt his attempt to fulfill his destiny. I still think that makes the most sense.

    And Sawyer definitely dropped “Freckles” simply because he’s trying to change and promised to quit with the nicknames a few episodes back.[/quote]
    Yeah, except for the fact they he accomplished the dive. Someone who can’t swim can’t make that dive. Also, the purpose of his flashback was to show that he had learned how to swim. Why would he have drowned in Des’s flash because he couldn’t swim…if he could swim?

    Right now, I am leaning heavily towards the changing of fate can also change previous events (when changing fate happens on the island).[/quote]

    He accomplished the dive because he was holding onto a weight which dragged him down. He really didn’t have to do any work, anyone could do this. When he got low enough, he dropped the weight and basically doggie paddled to the opening of the Looking Glass. It was hardly champion swimming.

    As far as the freckles go, I figured Sawyer was done with nicknames now that he finished off the “real” Sawyer. Then, in the FF, Kate no longer had freckles because — get this — shes not on a tropical island anymore!

    As for the beard, I figured the writers WANTED us to think that it was a flashback. Plus, as good of a TV show Lost is, it is still a TV show. Mistakes happen. Plus, if Micheal Emerson didn’t even know that it was supposed to be a flash forward (see a previous post) then I doubt the makeup department was clued in either.

    As much craziness as Lost contains, I’m going to withold jumping to conclusions about changing past events until there is more convincing evidence.

  84. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="64256"]
    He never said he could not swim, he said he wasn’t a good swimmer. I consider myself a pretty bad swimmer, but if need be, I can swim a few lengths of the pool or dive. I think Charlie was lying when he said he was a champion swimmer in order to be allowed to make that dive without great protest from Jack and Sayid.[/quote]

    Actually, this is what happened in S1E5 “White Rabbit”, per Lostpedia’s transcript:

    CHARLIE [off camera]: Jack, Jack.

    [Shot of Jack on the beach laying down, but looking out to sea.]

    CHARLIE [off camera at first]: Jack. Jack. Someone’s out there. You’ve gotta — the current’s — there’s someone out there, look.

    [Shot of ocean, and splashing in the distance. We can hear someone yell help.]

    CHARLIE: I woke up and she’s — I don’t swim.

    [Jack runs toward the ocean.]

    CHARLIE: I don’t swim.

    [Shot of Jack swimming out. Shot of Kate. Shot of Jack, he can't see anything, and dives under. Comes up, dives under. He comes up with Boone.]

    I think there are many possible explanations for what happened between this scene, and the scenes in Greatest Hits:
    - Charlie was lying in White Rabbit, or in Greatest Hits, or in both episodes
    - Charlie’s backstory has changed due to Desmond saving Charlie’s life (I believe this is what Hammer is saying he thinks happened)
    - continuity error by the writers/producers

    As I had said in comment #35, I personally think Charlie was lying in both episodes. He knows how to swim, as indicated in his FB in Greatest Hits. But during White Rabbit, he didn’t want to risk his life for some stranger. Plus, he may very well have been under the influence of heroin, and not in a condition to swim out there and rescue someone. So, he lied, so people wouldn’t expect that he would have tried to save Boone.

    Regarding Desmond’s flash of Charlie drowning – I think Charlie isn’t so good of a swimmer, or in such good shape, that he’d be able to swim out to get Claire and swim back while pulling her with him. I think it makes sense that he might not survive such a rescue attempt.

  85. Hammer says:

    ToeKnee- you make a good arguement. You were correct on what I was trying to say. I’m gonna stick with Des’s changing the future = changing the past for now since the show hasn’t really revealed why Des is able to see the future and what the ramifications are for altering it since the jewelry store lady told him not to bother trying to stop fate. (How’s that for a run on sentence?)

  86. alan says:

    Okay how about this.
    The flash forward is real. Only the losties and the others get rid of whoever is coming next season, in return ben stays and locke and a few others, those that want to go are sent home but are told not to tell anyone about the island hence jacks line of “i’m sick of lying”. I did think that the person in the casket was actually supposed to be Jack, which would tie in with Bens comments of you have no one back home and no one coming to his funeral. But it doesn’t explain how he is kown as the hero and would be perilous although he is on a self destruct to return to the island so maybe he doesn’t care.
    Alternatively it could be John Locke, who stayed on the island, to account for his body, as the intials would be the same, although i have poured over the article and all that can be read is that in L A a man was found dead in an a park.
    New i.d would explain why they meet in secret at the end, they must all be kept apart and would account for Kates non arrest. ,. Jack s wife is pregnant which suggests that they have only been missing for nine months ( otherwise why show that ) and the fact that she hasn’t been changed as his next of kin.
    Jacks father is dead, that’s why he didn’t want the prescription woman to phone
    I hope that this forward is only the end of season five and we see them get back, or it will be so sad. Alternatively, it will show as a narrative that the islands effects do happen here but only if you’re tuned into it, i.e the bridge and the crash, uncanny timing, also where does jack get his faith to say forgive me. man of science man of faith.
    Urggh, i haven’t put this at all eloquently and there are so many other theories i have but i wanted to throw these out after the last finale

  87. Omar Kamel says:

    Regarding the casket and the newspaper clipping – this might be interesting; I was reading a book called Critical Mass, and came across this:

    First, just cause it’s interesting this bit about John Locke:

    “To Locke and Rousseau, the power conferred upon the head of state comes with an obligation to serve the interests of the populace; for Hobbes, the common people became contracted to serve their ruler.”

    Further on, and more to why I’m writing this note:

    “A political scientist taking a chronological approach would track the trajectory of Hobbes’ thought via Locke to later thinkers who believed there could be such a thing as a ‘calculus of society’. Along this path we would uncover JEREMY BENTHAM’s utilitarianism in the late eighteenth century, an attempt to harmonize the individual’s pursuit of personal happiness with the interests of society.”

    So – Jeremy Bentham?

    Maybe.

  88. lost chicka says:

    couple thoughts:

    - danielle is annie. when we see danielle’s flashbacks we’ll be seeing annie & we’ll all (or at least me) be screaming at our tvs.

    - i think robert s is right. charlie was lying about being a champion swimmer but he could still swimm well. he might be just a pool swimmer & not to crazy about oceans with sharks, & all that fun stuff (i wouldn’t be). i don’t blame him for not going in after the drowning chick in season 1 (and he said “i don’t swim” wich could just mean it’s not his thing). so i’m not saying that charlie couldn’t swim just that he wasn’t very good at it or didn’t want to swim with the sharks. and you saw how he drowned & that chick in s1 died going for a swim.

    even tho sawyer’s name calling agreement is expired, he’s not using to many nicknames these days (i don’t remember any names during the ep.s after the brig). and to quote katie “then in the ff, kate no longer had freckles because – get this – shes not on a tropical island anymore!”

    - naomi said the bodies were found by balli & kate told sun way back in s1 that she was gonna go to balli but wound up on a flight going to la. hmmmm……

    - jack & kate are off the island so sayid has to be off because he actually has a reason to be off the island, nadia.

  89. Lesley says:

    Wow a week on vacation and it takes several hours to catch up! TLE told us that the supply drops would go on into perpetuity so I am not sure that contact with the island is absolutely necessary. I am in the Charlie can now swim and Kate’s freckles disappeared as a result of Desmond’s affect on the time-space continuum camp. Actually, that all of time is happening at the same time (versus on a line) such that when a change happens it affects the “entire picture”. – J. Wood explains this in great detail on his most excellent blog. (Minkowski time) I doubt that Desmond can delay the inevitable without changing something along the way, even though a course correction will play out down the road. I like the “Wardrobe” idea but then how does that explain the golden tickets? Seeing Kate’s wealth in the present day makes me think that those folks who left the island were well taken care of by…? Can you say Widmore? Also, I am guessing that Penny saw the LG station via a feed from her father’s office because she was there sneaking around. That would also explain how Naomi could have Des’ backstory – not from Penny but her father. Perhaps Widmore suspects that Des is on the island he is looking for….or maybe that was the ulterior motive behind the sailboat race! I agree with Hammer that Ben is the personification of the phrase that “absolute power corrupts absolutely”. My question is how Richard fits into all of this. Was he denied access to island secrets because he assisted in the purge? Ben only directly killed his father but he manipulates everyone else. The island seems a bit confused about what is right abd wrong as well. But we all know LOST has a way of sucking us in by having us believe one thing and turning it on its head from a different perspective down the road, so I believe that Ben’s motives were originally good and he still believes that they are. The island however, seems to have chosen a new spokesperson in John Locke (maybe Walt too). Locke’s naivete may protect him from such corruption. I am guessing that Michael was in the casket because seems more likely that he would eventually kill himself for making the choices he made on the island. Perhaps he left the island with Jack and Kate but Walt decided to stay. Mikhail certainly appears to meet the definition of the Darlton’s Zombie (even down to his nasty teeth)! I agree with Will he will wash-up on shore very much alive but minus a hand. Kate’s statement to Jack at the very end is most interesting… “This is not gonna change”, but I bet that forshadows exactly what is going to happen….It is all gonna change. I hope that season 4 will show the story going in both directions…reflecting that it is all happening simultaneously. Leading to a conclusion that the island represents a (Dark) Tower of sorts that connects all parts of all realities at once. Which of the Losties is Roland? Would that be Jack? Now that would really rock!
    Sorry to ramble!

  90. LostLateNight says:

    [quote comment="64853"]Wow a week on vacation and it takes several hours to catch up! TLE told us that the supply drops would go on into perpetuity so I am not sure that contact with the island is absolutely necessary. I am in the Charlie can now swim and Kate’s freckles disappeared as a result of Desmond’s affect on the time-space continuum camp. Actually, that all of time is happening at the same time (versus on a line) such that when a change happens it affects the “entire picture”. – J. Wood explains this in great detail on his most excellent blog. (Minkowski time) I doubt that Desmond can delay the inevitable without changing something along the way, even though a course correction will play out down the road. I like the “Wardrobe” idea but then how does that explain the golden tickets? Seeing Kate’s wealth in the present day makes me think that those folks who left the island were well taken care of by…? Can you say Widmore? Also, I am guessing that Penny saw the LG station via a feed from her father’s office because she was there sneaking around. That would also explain how Naomi could have Des’ backstory – not from Penny but her father. Perhaps Widmore suspects that Des is on the island he is looking for….or maybe that was the ulterior motive behind the sailboat race! I agree with Hammer that Ben is the personification of the phrase that “absolute power corrupts absolutely”. My question is how Richard fits into all of this. Was he denied access to island secrets because he assisted in the purge? Ben only directly killed his father but he manipulates everyone else. The island seems a bit confused about what is right abd wrong as well. But we all know LOST has a way of sucking us in by having us believe one thing and turning it on its head from a different perspective down the road, so I believe that Ben’s motives were originally good and he still believes that they are. The island however, seems to have chosen a new spokesperson in John Locke (maybe Walt too). Locke’s naivete may protect him from such corruption. I am guessing that Michael was in the casket because seems more likely that he would eventually kill himself for making the choices he made on the island. Perhaps he left the island with Jack and Kate but Walt decided to stay. Mikhail certainly appears to meet the definition of the Darlton’s Zombie (even down to his nasty teeth)! I agree with Will he will wash-up on shore very much alive but minus a hand. Kate’s statement to Jack at the very end is most interesting… “This is not gonna change”, but I bet that forshadows exactly what is going to happen….It is all gonna change. I hope that season 4 will show the story going in both directions…reflecting that it is all happening simultaneously. Leading to a conclusion that the island represents a (Dark) Tower of sorts that connects all parts of all realities at once. Which of the Losties is Roland? Would that be Jack? Now that would really rock!
    Sorry to ramble![/quote]

    A few points:

    Kate’s Flashforward:
    Guy she’s referring to …

    Could be her husband from the flashback before she went on the run again (she married him under her alias)

    Could be someone from Widmore OR Dharma OR Airline that is tracking them and paying them off for keeping quiet upon return

    OR

    If the past/future is changable and if Jack’s father is alive…

    Kate’s childhood friend/first love could be alive in the future too…

    Liked the reference to “This is not gonna’ change” – I think it’s a reminder that they can not get back into that strange LOST time continuum that Jack is trying to return to by taking the frequent flights (Given to them by the airlines for PR?)

    Penny’s Call: Interesting note about perhaps calling from the father’s office. Could Widmore be behind the Dharma drops? Am trying to think back to the episode of Des and Penny’s father at his office…any nuggests/connections there?

  91. LostLateNight says:

    Casket:

    Walt? (some said it was short…)
    Michael?
    Locke?
    Ben?

  92. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Sorry, I know this is going to bore and irritate everybody in equal measure (and I’m sure versions of these theories are all over the net) but I couldn’t resist it. So here it is – my theory about the island.

    Two of the most ancient myths known to man deal with exile. The first man and woman lived in beautiful garden, immortal and unchanging – until they were tempted to eat the forbidden fruit of knowledge by the serpent. They were driven out of the garden and prevented from ever entering it again by an angel. The second myth concerns an angel who rises up against his father/creator and is exiled from heaven as a result. Some day he and his minions plan to storm the gates of heaven once more.

    I think ‘Lost’ combines these two myths and tries to establish that they have a common ancestry.

    THE ISLAND.
    The island is the origin of all possible realities – as it is the origin of man and woman. It is also the location of the ‘Garden of Eden’, and the inhabitants of the island experience the beneficial effects of the island’s peculiar reality in the same way as did Adam and Even. To live on the island is to live in a state of stasis, immortal and unchanging, but equally unable to reproduce. Adam and Eve only procreated after leaving the garden.

    THE GARDEN.
    The ‘garden’ is located on the far side of the island. This is inhabited by a being who had a crucial role in the evolution of the human species, intentionally or otherwise. The actual nature of this ‘garden’ has become shrouded in myth. It might not be a ‘garden’ as such, anymore than it might contain a literal ‘tree of knowledge’ – but it does contain something worth having.

    ANGELS.
    The garden is protected by a creature which our ancestors might have described as an ‘angel’ but which Rousseau more accurately describes as a ‘security system.’ The biblical Jacob fought an angel, often believed to be samael, also known as the accuser. I can only assume the two ‘angels’ have been contracted into one. This would explain the peculiar effect the ‘angel’ has on those who confront it – how it takes the form of somebody they mistreated.

    JACOB.
    Jacob is a being who rose up against his creator, his ‘father’ and who was driven out of the garden as a result. This same Jacob encouraged man (another of his ‘father’s’ creations) to take the vital evolutionary step that resulted in his own ejection from the garden.
    Jacob is determined to re-enter the garden, by force if necessary, and with this end in mind is recruiting a tribe of like-minded individuals – in the bible, Jacob was a jewish patriarch. This ‘tribe’ consists of his allies from the original insurrection along with anybody else who has ended up on the island in the meantime.
    By ‘like-minded’ I mean Jacob is only interested in people willing to challenge the father-figure. If they have brought about their fathers’ deaths or – even better – killed their fathers, this makes them kindred souls. Just as only a truly holy person can see the face of God, your ability to see Jacob (or his willingness to be seen) depends on how great a role you played in your father’s demise. Ben assumes Locke will see Jacob after killing his natural father, not realising that Locke has only engineered his father’s death rather than killed him outright – ie. he got Sawyer to do the dirty work. Thus Locke only glimpses Jacob. He also hears him. Nonetheless, Ben is furious that Jacob permits Locke even this much, given that Locke hasn’t fulfilled the necessary criteria for tribe membership.

  93. rejus says:

    [quote comment="65322"]
    THE GARDEN.
    The ‘garden’ is located on the far side of the island. This is inhabited by a being who had a crucial role in the evolution of the human species, intentionally or otherwise. The actual nature of this ‘garden’ has become shrouded in myth. It might not be a ‘garden’ as such, anymore than it might contain a literal ‘tree of knowledge’ – but it does contain something worth having.
    [/quote]

    wow, I don’t know if everything you wrote is actually in the creators’ mind, but surely your theory explains many clues.
    Maybe ‘The temple’ (where the Others are going) is a gateway to the garden or simply the proof that the island has been considered sacred from a very long time.

  94. Hammer says:

    Fallon – I for one haven’t heard or this theory yet. Excellent take on it.

  95. Hammer says:

    Fallon’s theory may deserve it’s own thread.

    This makes we want to know more about Jacob’s list. The only thing we know so far is that Jack wasn’t on it. Kate killed her father, is she on the list? Or do you get on the list if you are “special” and able to defy your father? Walt is special and didn’t kill his father (as far was we know, Michael hasn’t come back yet) but appears to be part of the island now.

    Fallon – Do you have a guess as to who the “Adam and Eve” with the black and white stones are or how they got there?

  96. KillerR says:

    [quote comment="63612"]Here is my theory on this whole future stuff. I am going to put a a spin on this and am probably way off but here it goes. What if Jack and Kate and I think Sawyer is involved somehow also were on the island before when Ben was a child with his father. They left the island for whatever reason and then Ben and the others kill all the Dharma people. So when Jack keeps saying they have to go back at the end of the show to Kate maybe thats when we fast forward and that is what we are watching now? Maybe Jack and Kate are there to get revenge on Ben and his people,maybe the boat that is waiting out in the water is with Jack and thats why Jack was so persistant to use the radio. I think what we were watching were flashbacks into the past. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]
    very plausible although im not completly sold on the revenge on ben angle. i do like the idea of what seem to be flashforwards = flashbacks though.

    i do have a question for the entire crew here though. was that sun and jin sitting behind jack in the plane? my dvr started 2 minutes late for some reason and the beginning was not on the recording and i cant find any pics on lostpedia

  97. Hammer says:

    Oops, before I get pounded, Patchy said the Kate is not on the list because she is “flawed”. Judging by his loyalty to Ben and resistance to death, him might be in the know.

  98. Lesley says:

    Fallon, I like your theory and agree with Hammer that having a separate thread would be great to continue fleshing out the great points you make. I will throw out an idea regarding the security/angels and suggest that perhaps there are three (versus two) melded into one (and perhaps the third offers the darker and unforgiving side of the entity). Doesn’t February seem so very far away?!

  99. KillerR says:

    [quote comment="65483"] Doesn’t February seem so very far away?![/quote]

    I can handle February for the next season, because thats basically what we had to wait for this past season. What i cant understand is December for the dvd release of season 3. Thats just plain dirty.

  100. Dimo says:

    I have a sneaky suspicion that Ben is not dead, if you think about it how hard would it be to swim out that window to the surface. Great post…

  101. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Hammer, Lesley -

    Thanks for the positive response. I’m not sure about the identity of the couple, but the reference to Adam and Eve could be a hint about the island’s significance, while the black stone and the white stone indicate the general tone of the final season – i.e. the battle between good and evil. I reckon the title “not in portland” is some sort of anagram, but haven’t been able to figure it out as yet, although ‘proto’ is often used to denote a first or an original. E.g. ‘prototype’ which would tie in with the whole eden-based theme.
    I already outlined my basic theory about the island. I thought I’d throw in some additional stuff re Dharma, Locke etc, so here it is -

    THE DHARMA INITIATIVE.
    Direct exposure to the electro-magnetic field (located at the island’s core) leaves an individual with precognitive abilities – e.g. Des. The Initiative was set up with the intention of exploiting this feature for the greater good. People were immersed in this electro-magnetic field and then left the island as agents.Their role was to use their precognitive powers to influence the destiny of the world – ‘their’ world – in a positive way.

    JOHN LOCKE.
    In time the Initiative became aware of the garden’s existence as well as its importance. A group of precogs, permanently based on the island, established that Jacob’s army would attack the garden at some later stage. An exploration of all possible outcomes revealed that one key individual could successfully protect the garden and ensure that this attack failed – John Locke.

    DHARMA VS. JACOB.
    The Dharma Initiative’s decision to ensure John Locke’s arrival on the island via their powers brought them into conflict with Jacob’s tribe. A member of the initiative – Ben Linus – was recruited by the tribe and all members of the Iniative present on the island at that time were killed. The apparatus built by the Initiative was then used to create more precogs. However these precogs were dedicated to exploring how Jacob might succeed rather than fail in his attack on the garden. It became apparent that, just as Locke was crucial to the successful protection of the garden, there were others inhabiting his reality who would be crucial to Jacob’s cause.

    THE CRASH.
    The plane crash was orchestrated by Dharma field agents to ensure John Locke’s arrival on the island. However, Jacob’s field agents ensured a number of potential recruits were also on board.

    FREE WILL.
    Why not approach the people involved directly? From a very early stage it became apparent that a successful outcome was only possible (for either side) if events unfolded in a specific manner and order, the plane crash being a crucial example. I say either side because, whereas precogs can influence events, they cannot affect free will. Bringing John Locke to the island does not guarantee he will do as he is expected – although (once on the island) it is inevitable that he reach a point where he be given the opportunity to protect the garden. This is his ‘destiny’. Thus Ben’s attempts to sabotage this destiny – by trying to recruit Locke and then kill him – were doomed from the outset and show he is losing his grip.

    .

  102. cath says:

    Am I out of it, or is the guy who tells the young Ben Linus to “be patient” the same Richard Alpert, who is then seen as a kind of peon to Ben later–and not much aged at all? Richard Alpert was also researcher of LSD with Timothy Leary…I think Richard will be more important in the future…

  103. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment="63230"]“I’m planting a flag here — when Des saved Charlie, he changed that past and present as well as the future. Charlie couldn’t swim in the first season, and he’s all of a sudden a swimming champion who makes an impressive dive in “Greatest Hits,” a dive that Mikhail needed scuba gear for. Like Charlie’s newfound innate swimming ability, perhaps in the re-made past/present/future, Christian Shepherd didn’t die. And maybe that’s why Kate seems to be conspicuously lacking her trademark freckles.”

    This may also explain why Kate is able to be “free” in the real world. Maybe in the flashforward she isn’t a fugitive?[/quote]

    Erm Hammer, maybe it shows how brave charlie is. He LIED about being able to swim so the future wouldnt change and claire could leave

  104. ldkasoji says:

    Does anyone know what exactly happens to Jack? By the end he is completely out of it. Does he miss the life he had on the island?
    And also..who’s funeral were Jack and Kate talking about? I suspect itis Charlie’s?

  105. Jeanie says:

    They look really “old” by the end of this season…

    Why’s that dude that showed up when Juliette identified her father, still look so YOUNG? Just as he did the day he ran into child-Ben. Perhaps the island stops time, but if that’s the case why do our Losties look so old by the end of the third season? Perhaps they keep going back and forth just as Desmond did. Maybe when that hatch got destroyed it changed the space-time continuum all together.

    Perhaps future Kate isn’t a “fugitive” because she was more or less forgiven and let go…or…her past got changed since Des and Charlie kept fighting it. Three times if I remember.

    Since past directly affects present and future, she would definitely have to NOT be a fugitive in the past. I think her dealing with that Stallion and Sawyer grabbing her throat while he was laid out in the hatch…was sort of redemption for it all. Just as Sawyer and that boar.

    Yuck I just keep analyzing it…can’t stop!

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