The Economist

Sayid - Lost

Tonight’s episode will focus on Sayid, and for those of you who watched the promo at the end of last week I am sure you can put two and two together related to what this means… We should get more detail related to exactly what the Freighties (ers, tots, whatever you want to call them) want with Ben and it will be interesting to see how that plays out. From what I have read, there should be a few eye-poppers tonight and there will be no let down coming off the momentum from last week.

ABC’s official show description:

Spoiler Warning

“Sayid and Kate go in search of Locke to negotiate a peaceful deal when they discover that his hostage may be the key to getting off the Island.”

Episode Preview

There are a few sneak peeks available also: Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2

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611 Responses to The Economist

  1. Toeknee says:

    Well, all I can say to that is….

    WHAT THE F**k??!!!

  2. omar says:

    [quote comment="181524"]Well, all I can say to that is….

    WHAT THE F**k??!!![/quote]

    Double that….what the hell is going on…thats crazy, man this show is taking all kinds of new twist and turns..

  3. lost chicka says:

    omg that was amazing!!!!
    – ok so sayid works for ben in the future!!!
    – he said something about the list, jacob’s list i’m guessing (actually pretty damn sure).
    – he always gets shot when he’s in love.
    – what did naomi’s bracelet say (which what’s her name had one just like it too)
    – was the girl sayid was with working for abaddon? i think so.
    – time flew by in that episode
    – i was SHOCKED when i realized that it was ben stitiching him up and i was waiting for vincent too.
    – sayid looked good with his hair down (i know totally random)
    – the play with hurley was awesome. i totally fell for it.
    – i can’t believe hurley went along with that whole con!
    – kate & sawyer together again.
    that’s all for now. thanks for listening to my rambling!!!

  4. omar says:

    what is sayid doing???

  5. Jeff Lost says:

    I missed the 1st half I ‘m out of play tonight

  6. Mike L says:

    I can guess that the R.G. initials on the bracelet stands for “Republican Guard”

  7. Andrew says:

    So is sayid bad or is ben good or are they both bad?

    and whats up with the time change

  8. omar says:

    [quote comment="181524"]Well, all I can say to that is….

    WHAT THE F**k??!!![/quote]

    Double that….what is going on, man this show got all kinds of twists and turns….what is sayid doing??

  9. lostlaur says:

    im agreeing what the f***?

    maybe sayid is in the casket later (from the flashforward in the season finale)…nobody wants to go to his funeral because they found out hes working for ben and also he wasnt in america at all so nobody else would know him?? make any sense or am i wayyy out there

  10. JN415 says:

    Best episode of any tv show i have ever seen.
    observations:
    1) locke cant see the cabin because he has lost touch with the island
    2) naomi and syiad’s german girl work for same man? both have the same bracelet?
    3) Hurley apologized to Jack in past episode for entraping syiad, kate and miles on the island?
    4) Ben told Syiad in vet, remember what happened last time you though with your heart and not your gun. What is he refering to? Possibly taking naomi back on the helicopter, leading to drama on the boat.
    5) Who the hell is R.G. from Naomi’s braclet, possibly Penelope’s father?

  11. Lost Anoraks says:

    Did you notice that earlier in the episode Sayid told Locke that he will sell his soul before he trusts Ben…interesting turn of events at the end… is his soul sold?

  12. lost chicka says:

    omar: on island: i think he’s going to investigate ben’s claims and see what’s realy going on with the freighter tots. off island: he’s working for ben (and jacob?) as a head hunter.

    Mike L: that would be so freaky. mouth dropper comment. (tho really somebody could put pudding on here right now and my mouth would drop. i’m on a bit of a lost high right now).

    Andrew: sayid is doing what he’s always done: surviving and doing what he has to.

    Is it jus me hearing things, or did ben tell sayid something about keeping his friends alive at the end?

    Lostlaur: makes sense. and he could’ve gone back and forth to the island and off since he’s with ben. and that would be why jack thinks they’ve lost their last hope.

    and what is that for sayid? like his third gunshot wound?

    jn415: 4) i’m thinking naomi or a past mission.

  13. lost chicka says:

    lost anoraks: omg, i forgot about that. he seems to have sold his soul in the flashforward, or in the process of selling it. but why?

  14. knowlost says:

    who r the oceanic 6??
    Of course we know Jack, Kate, hurley, Sayid
    My theory on the other two.
    Last scene in last season finale. Kate says to Jack, “I have to get back to him, you know how he gets.” SAWYER
    flash-forward last finale, the funeral in an african-american neighborhood, Ben spy on the Boat (MICHAEL). My theory.

  15. Toeknee says:

    This site seems to be running very slowly so I’ll be back later. Maybe by then I’ll think of something useful to say. Right now I’m …… speechless. Scenes like that last one are why I watch this great show.

  16. DocH says:

    Early clue. Sayid kills Mister (?) on the golf course. Part of his hit list. On assignment… going through the hits.

    Middle clue. Ben has many nice travelling clothes. MANY passports – Ben has Ben doing business off-island for MANY years.

    Warm fuzzy. There were a half dozen references to fan “hot button” topics and the were all nicely ‘slipped-in”.

    Later clue. Freighter tots NOT a big fan of Miles. That means he is VERY important.

    Frank Lapidus. Frank = candid, direct, honest.
    Lapidus = a type of granite, or in Hebrew – “Illumination”. Therefore – candid or direct illumination. I think he is going to be a neutral broker that speaks honestly about what is bogus and what is really happening.

    Also – Daniel to Frank. Stay on the “heading” to get back to the ship. Two seasons ago we were told that 315 (or 325 by some accounts) degrees was the direction that would escape the island magnetics. A reciprocal would be 135 (or 145) degrees to get to the island. That puts the freighter NW of the island. The same direction that OA815 arrived from. (and why did Frank make a hard 90 degree right turn in the helo at the end of the show)?

  17. say what? says:

    Nope…going nowhere fast. The show is now turning into a conspiracy theory, not good enough. Kate stays behind and Jack doesn’t shed a tear?

    Jacob’s voice on the phone? morphing into Ben? WTF!

    Desmond gets on the choper without a fight?

    C’mon JJ, got to do need to do better than that.

  18. lost chicka says:

    sorry for that tripple comment back there. woops.

    what is up with the site not putting comments up right away?

    toeknee: agreed that was just all amazing final scene. mouth dropping, heart racing, constant gasping, last scene.

    how many people actually know about ben’s off island buisness?

    yeah, why wasn’t jack a bit more concerned with kate? i guess he must not care as much as we thought. oh well, i guess she’ll still have sawyer. looks like they get a bit cozy next week.

  19. Shooter says:

    Just a theory I have; looking for some feedback.

    I agree that Micheal is the spy on the freighter. I think that he is doing this for Ben because he helped him get off the island.

    Sayid is working for ben for the same reason. Somehow Ben becomes instrumental in helping the Oceanic 6 get off the island. Sayid then agrees to help Ben out of appreciation.

    The “he” that Kate refers to is also Ben, not Sawyer. Perhaps she too is working for Ben. He not only helped her get off the island, but maybe had something to do with her not going to jail.

    Jack is a good person, so he wouldn’t want to work for Ben. Maybe Ben let him take the credit for the escape (“A hero twice over”) and in return, Jack keeps his mouth shut. Hurley is not a problem because he is in the institution and nobody would believe him anyway.

  20. skweez says:

    At the end of the episode, Ben says to Sayid, “you want your friends to be safe, don’t you”…. so, this is the reason he is doing Ben’s dirty work. But alas, what dirty work does Ben have. How does a guy who has a terminal tumor on an “deserted” island have so much “business” off the island. And where are these so called “friends”, on the island or, is Ben referrening to the other 5 of the O6. As i have previously stated, I believe that more than 6 got off the island, but the “story” that was made up about the “plane crash” and subsequent survivors, there were only 6 who kept everything together and helped facilitate the rescue.

  21. omar says:

    I think the guy that visited hugo in the nut house is actually working for ben and ben is the one that is really trying to kill everyone because he wants to make a new island and sayid is just caught up in the middle, and desmond is the spy on the freighter and has always been the spy…..

  22. donkey says:

    The O6 are Jack, kate, Sayid, Hurley, Jin and Sun. Don’t ask me where I got this but it’s the deal. My other theory: The Island is a time warp – different times on the two clocks help this theory. Other than that I gots nothing.

  23. omar says:

    man you right micheal is the spy, man this show is just gettin so crazy…i need more like a vampire needs blood….

  24. DocH says:

    Shooter @ Comment 21.
    Good theories, I won’t completely endorse them, they have merit. But I definitely won’t dismiss them either. Big Question. What is so important, after the fact, that folks off-island have to be ASASSINATED? Revenge? To continue a decption? Money? Power? Greed? Love?

    Lost Chicka – love the great shotgun thinking. u fired off quite a few (accurate) rounds for sure.

  25. omar says:

    and what was that collar charlotte found in the desert on the dead polar bear…it ties to a station to the darma people….

  26. intolost says:

    WHOA DUDE!!!!!!!! UNBELIEVEABLE episode!!!! I am REELING!!!!!!!Here goes:

    1. Sayid is Ben’s man on the freighter! Ben has had it all planned out. He’s got something on Sayid. He’s found Sayid’s weakness and is exploiting it as Ben says he loves to do. It has something to do with Nadia! We don’t know what else transpired between Ben and Sayid at the barracks.
    2. Any potential connection between Daniel and Hurley since Daniel is dubbed a “nut case” by Naomi? They have not met up yet.
    3. There will be some sort of an Abaddon vs. Ben thing coming up. Abaddon wants to know if Ben and Sayid are still alive. Maybe Kate and Jack, too. Ben is protecting them?
    4. Bring back Charlie!
    5. Where’s Alpert? What happened to him and the people that went with him to the “temple?”
    6. Ben has been going back and forth to see Alpert.
    7. The tots do know Penny. Why won’t they spill what they know about her to Des? Her dad found out about Penny’s rescue set up and got to them (tots) first to pay them off.

  27. intolost says:

    CS Lewis must know Darma, because she had a really big Cheshire cat grin when she saw the Dharma collar.

  28. lostlaur says:

    The whole time delay on the rocket thing blew my mind. There’s a 30 minute time difference between the outside & the island?? I always thought it might have been DAYS, even WEEKS. There goes that theory!

    DocH: I noticed the hard veer to the right too. What WAS that about?

    Now I really think the island is being fought over by two corporations. Hence why Ben has to keep leaving the island for business. And why another group with a lot of resources is coming to the island not for the survivors but for Ben & to gain other information.

    I’m still awestruck by this episode. That ending… Sayid always has the best episodes!

  29. DocH says:

    [quote comment="181580"]… the island is a time warp – different times on the two clocks help this theory.[/quote]
    It doesn’t help the theory. It totally and completely sells the theory. We have all postulated the real world and the island were way out of sync. Now we have it. Daniel called in the rocket shot and expected it in short order. When it arrived it was 31 minutes out of sync. Now the question… is the island running faster OR slower than real time? A small rocket should only take about 3-4 minutes to travel from the freighter to the helo, from 80 or so miles offshore. 31 minutes on top of 3 minutes is about a 10-1 ratio. Therefore, island time takes 10 times longer than real-world time… they haven’t been on the island for 90+ days… they’ve been there for 900+ days in off-island time. (or 9+ days – not a math wizard here).

  30. omar says:

    Why sayid can hoop up with a white girl but i cant?? maybe i gotta move to europe… Who is alpert??

  31. intolost says:

    Cool! That would explain Alpert not aging.

  32. LostDamery says:

    Wow that was GREAT! Awesome on so many levels.
    2 cents:
    1) Somehow the O6 end up working for Ben and they are all kept off the island while the New group take over the island. Another great Switcheroo
    2) Here is the kicker Desmond is the spy. He is going to the boat and no one noticed? He has been on the island how many times and he has a relationship that ben knows and understands. He just wants to see his Penny

    Thats it I am still wondering about my underground ape colony…

  33. intolost says:

    Huh. 30 minute delay. Biblical connection? There is a 30 minute silence halfway through the Tribulation. Book of Revelation.

  34. Lesley says:

    Well, speechless is an understatement. I have watched it twice and I am still reeling. Looks like timespace theories continue to be supported. Now is future Ben coercing Sayid or is Sayid on board? I am guessing Sayid is on board. He knew the freighties were bad news but are his friends on or off the island in future or both. Do they even know they are in trouble? Looks like Sawyer is staying, giving Kate the incentive to go back (not sure why she leaves in the first place). Did Locke use the volanic ash to trap the Jacob & cabin? Did Hurley somehow disturb it? Why am I not surprized tha Ben is a traveling man? So where is the portal? In the closet with the clothes? Absolutely fascinating!!!

  35. omar says:

    Ben got all these passports like he jason bourne…Ben working for the government as a covert operative and sayid has been recruited also, actually he is a double agent…

  36. Tasha says:

    Maybe Walt is some sort of spy. Does Ben actually leave the island OFTEN? There was all those passports and money as if he leaves every other day. Is there an airplane or something?

    I think the bracelets mean they work for the same guy…Naomi and the blond chick that got shot at the end. The same guy might be Naomi’s boss and he is African American so can he end up being the one in the casket?

    I think Sayid is now someone who is trying to keep someone from finding the island and maybe the “friends.”

    That is all I can think of…..unless they are all living in some sort of alternate reality!

  37. DocH says:

    [quote comment="181551"]
    locke cant see the cabin because he has lost touch with the island
    [/quote]
    My immediate thought was that he could not see the cabin because there were too many “non-believers” there, or that they had not crossed the ash/chalk perimeter to the cabin. Its’ important for sure – just no good guesses right now.

  38. Ben says:

    - Im not sure the clue was that the island is 31 minutes ahead or behind, but more that all the “numbers” appear again when both clocks are put together.
    – If Ben is an international spy, who is Jacob, and why does the house disappear?
    – They can’t all work for ben, ben told sayid “ure doing it to save your friends.”
    – Where are the others?

  39. omar says:

    man this blog has a 30 min delay…do yall think we could all be on the island right now???

  40. intolost says:

    Ben having beaucoup passports….explains the polar bear in Tunisia?

  41. intolost says:

    Sayid’s hitlist…Abaddon’s people, ie Naomi and the GG (German girl). The Ben vs. Abaddon thing coming up….

  42. omar says:

    thats right ben when the clocks are put together the numbers appear again, i think those are actually the cordinates to the island on lattitude and longitude, thats why they pushed the button so outside people cant see the island on the grid map….

  43. lostlaur says:

    [quote comment="181622"]Maybe Walt is some sort of spy. Does Ben actually leave the island OFTEN? There was all those passports and money as if he leaves every other day. Is there an airplane or something?

    I think the bracelets mean they work for the same guy…Naomi and the blond chick that got shot at the end. The same guy might be Naomi’s boss and he is African American so can he end up being the one in the casket?

    I think Sayid is now someone who is trying to keep someone from finding the island and maybe the “friends.”

    That is all I can think of…..unless they are all living in some sort of alternate reality![/quote]

    I wouldn’t think its Abbadon since he’s obviously got financial resources & wouldn’t need to be in that neighborhood. Plus we don’t know if the person is African- American, just living in a lower income neighborhood. I think the writers said that the person in the casket is someone we already knew & we hadn’t met Abbadon at that point.

    But I DEFINITELY think the bracelets are a connection between the girls. Though Sayid seemed more surprised to see it on Naomi than he did the Berlin girl. Did anyone else feel like he recognized it?

    I thought maybe it had something to do with his girlfriend. And any ideas as so R.G.? Regina?

  44. Ben says:

    If Ben really is some boss, corp. exec., or just crazy why did he get a tumor removed on the island. Obv with the money, passports, and clothes he could have gone anywhere. I like where the story is going, but am convinced they had no end plot to work with seasons 1-3. They were just making stuff up…

  45. DocH says:

    Maybe Walt made it off-island. That’s why he has aged 2.5 yrs (900 days) and grown 6 inches in puberty. He is just “projected” back onto the island at critical times, like the “Island Whispers”.

    This saga is always about redemption. Who redeemed themselves this episdode, and who failed or slipped in the redemption category?

  46. SJH says:

    It seems that Sayid is up to no good in the flash-forward. Yet in 3 seasons of watching LOST there is no character on the Island I would trust more than Sayid. None. So I am really wondering what the heck could’ve happened to get him to be doing Ben’s bidding.

    One of the other LOST characters who always seems to be a good guy, someone we the viewer (and the other characters) can trust to try and do the decent thing is Hurley. Yet in this episode, he acts in an underhanded manner, tricking and deceiving his friends. That was distressing to me.

  47. myleee says:

    [quote comment="181607"][quote comment="181580"]… the island is a time warp – different times on the two clocks help this theory.[/quote]
    It doesn’t help the theory. It totally and completely sells the theory. We have all postulated the real world and the island were way out of sync. Now we have it. Daniel called in the rocket shot and expected it in short order. When it arrived it was 31 minutes out of sync. Now the question… is the island running faster OR slower than real time? A small rocket should only take about 3-4 minutes to travel from the freighter to the helo, from 80 or so miles offshore. 31 minutes on top of 3 minutes is about a 10-1 ratio. Therefore, island time takes 10 times longer than real-world time… they haven’t been on the island for 90+ days… they’ve been there for 900+ days in off-island time. (or 9+ days – not a math wizard here).[/quote]
    but daniel was talking to regina on the freighter in real time. im thinking if the rocket came 30 minutes later, the island is running slower. there was a great opportunity to see how far along the real world is really going, when Jack asked Frank about the world series, but Frank just dismissed it in disgust for the bosox. the island running slow theory can also be supported by alpert not aging, and juliet’s sister’s kid being what looks like to about 2-3 years of age already. oh wait, but julie said she was there 2-3 years…hm.

    GOSH i love this show.

  48. lostlaur says:

    Also- LOL @ Omar’s comments.

    Maybe Hurley is replacing Locke as Jacob’s buddy & thats why Hurley says he shouldn’t have gone with Locke. He didn’t want to get involved with Jacob. That could be why he said something about, “He wants us to go back.” and gets so freaked out in the convenience store when he sees Charlie?

    Thanks a lot Lost NOW I CAN’T FALL ASLEEP.

  49. intolost says:

    Alpert is the Other that has known Ben since childhood and he hasn’t aged. He was involved in the Purge and also got Locke to convince Sawyer to kill his conman dad.

  50. tc says:

    31 mins is exponential, the dude early hit the nail on the head 900 days or even more, check this…Island time moving much slower then real time. Desmond pressing the button slowed island time, now the island trying to regain is time equilbrium, present is catching up with past. We get to watch two periods correct themselves as the collide or pass eachother…woah.

  51. tc says:

    saiyd is still finishing up island buisness, he cant go back to iraq, remember he is still searching for his true love, ben must know, or makes saiyd think he knows where she is, he must do these things to get back to her…

  52. tc says:

    Its like that movie where death will do anything to catch up with those that cheat it, I think that is the same principle here on this island as time balances it’s self…smoke monster is some how involved in this.

  53. Cari says:

    [quote comment="181538"]- sayid looked good with his hair down (i know totally random)
    quote]

    amazing

  54. Ben says:

    However, Alpert was one of the two that helped recruit Juilette. He may not age on the island, but we know he has been off the island.

  55. Cari says:

    WOW…I love this show so much. Just had to say that before I read everyones comments…going back up now.

    and Sayid looked amazing but I am shocked…okay going to read now…be back soon!!!

  56. lostlaur says:

    [quote comment="181637"]31 mins is exponential, the dude early hit the nail on the head 900 days or even more, check this…Island time moving much slower then real time. Desmond pressing the button slowed island time, now the island trying to regain is time equilbrium, present is catching up with past. We get to watch two periods correct themselves as the collide or pass eachother…woah.[/quote]

    LOVE this theory. LOVE.

  57. DocH says:

    myleee @ Comment 49
    but daniel was talking to regina on the freighter in real time. im thinking if the rocket came 30 minutes later, the island is running slower. there was a great opportunity to see how far along the real world is really going, when Jack asked Frank about the world series, but Frank just dismissed it in disgust for the bosox. the island running slow theory can also be supported by alpert not aging…[/quote]

    I agree. Island slow. World fast. I totally forgot the BoSox reference, and laughed when you reminded me. THEN I REALIZED – Frank was probably shrugging off the remark because the Sox have just won the title again in three years – which Jack did not know. Hence the joke and a TIME DILATION clue.

    Lets’ not forget the fertility issue and Juliet looking at xrays in Miami of 20-something women with 70-something uteruses (or vice-versa). There’s your time differential!

  58. I work for DHARMA says:

    - some one asked who Alpert is: Dr. Alpert is the Other who never ages, wears a lot of eyeliner, and conspired with Ben to gas the Dharma Initiative

    – Also, whoever said that Kate is working for Ben in the future is right on the money!! I hadn’t thought of that.

  59. haskins42 says:

    Ok…New to this site but here is a couple theories based on what I have read…

    Desmond is the spy. It explains his “visions”. He leaves the island for very short amount of times in island time, but can be 10 times that amount of time outside the island. So he sees that Charlie dies, and comes back to the island with his “visions”. He saves Charlie for reasons we don’t understand yet.

    The time delay (about 10 times as long outside the island) explains why in the first episode of the season, the tv coverage talks about the “2004 crash of Oceanic flight 815″

    We assume that we know 4 of the Oceanic 6, but don’t assume…The only ones we know for sure who have said they are members of the Oceanic 6 are Sawyer and Sayid…Jack must be also because he is back as a doctor at his old hospital…Never did Kate say she was a member of the Oceanic 6. She may have gotten off the island unknown to anyone else.

    I also agree Michael is on the freighter, but I don’t agree he is Ben’s mole on the freighter…I think he is on there to come back and look for Walt…

    Again I am new to this board but have always been a fan of Lost. Let me know what you think.

  60. lost chicka says:

    this is incredibly long:

    shooter: good thoughts. maybe that’s why jack started crying when kate said that.

    skweez: whew, so i wasn’t just making that up. what friends is he talking about tho? on island? off island? either way i think sayid would be willing to do it. or is it for nadia? but then why friendS?

    omar: no way is desmond the spy on the freighter. i have no clue where you would even get that from. it’s michael, i’m convinced. ben doesn’t want to kill everyond or else he would’ve done that a long time ago. i don’t think abaddon (guy who visited hurley) is working for ben. if he was he wouldn’t have to ask hurley if the others were still alive. don’t worry, someday you’ll find love. lol. that would be so freaky if all of us lost addicts are on island time. that would explain why i was so late to everything today too. oooo….lol.

    doc h: thank ya kindly.

    intolost: 1) well maybe they played some pool while they were in there too. i don’t believe it’s possible for sayid to be ben’s man on the freighter. he’s been here the whole time, and he just now left. besides ben knew the info before. i think it’s michael on the boat
    2) that would just be priceless.
    4) no, he’s dead. let the dude rest in peace!
    5) yeah where is alpert?

    lesley: i have to disagree. i’m only now just started watching it for the second time, but i don’t think sayid is on board. i think once again he’s being forced to be the bad guy to save others (in iraq his family and with ben his friends). he’s not friends with the freiter tots, he’s going there to investigate (my thought anyways).

    don’t you love just how freely jack gives the info on sayid away to frankie?

    i think ben and abaddon are fighting over the island. i think in the big picture, ben wants the best for the island and abaddon wants to exploit it. i think abaddon has something to do with dharma, who wanted to use it for their own purposes, and ben with the hostiles, who wanted to keep the island safe.

    and i am just as baffled as locke about jacob’s cabin missing.

    Sayid Rocks My Socks Off!!! =]

  61. lostlaur says:

    [quote comment="181631"]If Ben really is some boss, corp. exec., or just crazy why did he get a tumor removed on the island. Obv with the money, passports, and clothes he could have gone anywhere. I like where the story is going, but am convinced they had no end plot to work with seasons 1-3. They were just making stuff up…[/quote]

    Maybe he could not trust anyone to do the surgery. And with good reason- people really ARE out to get him. Was the submarine already blown up at that point? I can’t really remember.

    Why was he injecting sayid with something- is that normal bullet removal procedure?

    I mean wasn’t it kind of weird that they met in a pound when it was closed? Does Ben work there? (I’m pretty sure he was wearing a lab coat) Did he break in to do emergency surgery? Does he just really like dogs??

    SO MANY QUESTIONS.

    Also in going with the mirror, faith/science, redemption theories… notice how once Sayid is off the island he is back into an intelligence gathering, murderous lifestyle similar to before the crash? I don’t think Ben is necessarily blackmailing him to work on this. I think Sayid is doing it for some of his own reasons but was shook up by falling in love for the German girl he just killed. He didn’t seem to mind his new job after he killed the golf man & calmly walked away.

  62. withoutsee says:

    i like where you guys are taking this time thing… ok, so, is it possible….

    walt and michael in fact did make it off the island, time passes, and the live their lives off the island, and walt grew up in an altered time. imagining michael’s guilt leaving his friends behind, ben (or at least someone working for ben) coerces michael to be a spy on the freight, to do something good for his friends… the exact same way ben got sayid to work for him. just an idea.

    so how much time has passed between the island and everything else? remember, jack asked if the sox actually won the world series, and frank responded like it had just happened yesterday. jack also said “i can’t believe it’s been 100 days since i’ve seen a game” — if time construct were largely different, i’m sure the number 100 would’ve struck frank as odd.

  63. DocH says:

    myleee @ Comment 49
    but daniel was talking to regina on the freighter in real time. im thinking if the rocket came 30 minutes later
    —-
    also. radio comm travels @ ~186,000 miles per second vs. a mach 2 rocket @ 20 miles per minute. the radio call would still be almost instantaneous with a tenfold time delay, while the much slower rocket would go from a few minutes to half an hour.

  64. O1OO1O11 says:

    it is possible that ben has a twin. ben is not a medical guy. why is he performing a medical procedure.

    in fact – that guy could have been the REAL ben and its his twin that is on the island.

  65. Chrisbro says:

    Great episode:
    -Michael could be the spy on freighter, but what about Walt,

    -Walt is dead, Walt’s been dead sorry to say. No one shows up out of thin air only if there dead, i.e.-Jack’s father, Charlie, and Walt.

    -Ben, now hear me out-is the Good Guy. Why? He warn everyone, and I mean EVERYONE about not getting off the Island and people on the freighter were not come to rescue them. Ben is chosen, by whom? Who knows, but his name in the bible means: the “son of the right hand”, that is, “of happy list of the sons of Jacob. Judah Ch.49

  66. mr says:

    As for the oceanic 6….in season 3, Desmond tells Charlie that he has a vision of seeing Claire and the baby leaving the island on a helicopter. Leaves me wondering?!#@$

  67. myleee says:

    theories on desmond

    he’s been pretty low key in terms of character importancefor the abilities that the producers/writers bestowed on him, especially this far into the storyline. he has visions, ones of the future and of the past, and has used them in present “island time” to help the oceanic815 batch get off the island. he has connections to Widmore, through Penny, which also helps the losties in getting off the island (somewhat). he came to island on a boat, by himself (actually, i cant really remember off the top of my head, but currently thats my guess). so why is ben not all that concerned with him, as much as Walt or Locke? Does Ben know he exists and know about his visions? Why wouldnt Ben use that to his advantage? Or does Ben know and is just using him as a test tube baby, to see from afar how else to harness the island’s powers? it just seems to me that desmond should be playing a more important role in the story than what he’s getting now.

    wow, i really cant sleep, my mind is racing!

    thanks for replying DocH!

  68. lost chicka says:

    why do my comments keep getting posted twice????

    ben: i think because he would be on record then. idk tho, i’m not a genius. i just imitate one.

    sjh: i think that’s why hurley feels bad about going with locke. he ends up becomeing a bad guy and is sorry for it. cuz good time hurley can’t handle stabbing his friends backs.

    tc: ok, what? exponential? equilbrium? 2 periods correct themselves? again, i’m not a genius.

    lostlaur: sleep? who needs sleep when you have lost??

    i loved hurley’s mention of that break the guy’s neck with that break dance thing he did. i loved that. sayid is awesome. how many other guys out there can snap somebody’s neck with their legs?

    alpert wears guyliner, not eyeliner.

  69. Teresa says:

    Ok. The bracelet. I think it meant something to Sayid when he saw it on Naomi. The other girl either had one too, or Sayid gave her the one he took from Naomi? I also think Sayind knows who Naomi is – I think he knew her from the past – they both have a military background – their paths might have crossed. He seemed touched by her death and wanted to make sure she had dignity by taking her back to the freighter rather than leaving her behind.

    The bracelet definitely is a clue to someone or somehting.

    Maybe Ben is playing both sides of the fence – maybe he was the girls boss and he was testing Sayids loyalty before he gives him a new mission – the real one.

    He did mention at the end that Sayid was doing this to protect his friends and he also told him he had a new name for him – but of course we’ll have to wait until next week to find that out.

    The hidden room with all the passports and clothes was definitely interesting and significant. Obviously Ben does leave the island and probably often.

    Maybe he and Sayid are both good guys on a mission – sometimes good can be misinterpreted and innocent people become the “wanted” – just an idea….

    I would be happy to see what anone thinks……

  70. Olib says:

    Does anyone know if Sayid had flashbacks in Australia? Any scenes with him at the airport? I’m thinking maybe he was on the island before the crash. He knew the soldier from Iraq in the hatch?

  71. lost chicka says:

    ben says of course she did when sayid says she wanteed to know about you. so that confirms she works for the same person who hired naomi along with the bracelets. which means she works for abaddon.

    01001011: i don’t do the good twin/bad twin thing. KISS (keep it simple stupid – not saying you’re stupid…)

  72. mr says:

    My thoughts on the meaning of RG on the bracelet…it stands for renormalization group which is related to theoretical physics, quantum theory, and maxwell. Any thoughts?

  73. Teresa says:

    [quote comment="181661"]Great episode:
    -Ben, now hear me out-is the Good Guy. Why? He warn everyone, and I mean EVERYONE about not getting off the Island and people on the freighter were not come to rescue them. Ben is chosen, by whom? Who knows, but his name in the bible means: the “son of the right hand”, that is, “of happy list of the sons of Jacob. Judah Ch.49[/quote]

    I tend to agree that you could be right – that is exactly what I came up with after last weeks episode and posted it somehwere. Jesus sets at the right hand of the father and since Ben means son of right hand – it could be a reference to him being a christ-like figure – remember Jesus was often mistaken for evil and was tortured – if we follow carefully and look for clues we may just find out that he really is the good guy?

  74. lost chicka says:

    teresa: never thought of that. but sayid did keep the bracelet, didn’t he? so i suppose it is plausible he could’ve had it and given it to her. i think sayid just has respect for the dead. it could be more tho. the bracelet is important. sayid is a good guy. when he was with the republican guard it was so they didn’t kill his family and now with ben so his friends are safe. ben i want to say is good, but…

    olib: what soldier from iraq? the dude who taught him how to torture? sayid didn’t know that guy was on the island. and yeah, they have sayid’s flashbacks in australia. he was there to get his good ol college buddy essam to blow himself up so he could get nadia. and he stayed so essam could get a proper burial.

  75. Cat says:

    Remember Sawyer was reading a mysterious book called “BAD TWIN” when the plane first crashed….I wonder if that’s a clue.

  76. Jet Black says:

    it is so clear now that there was no long-term plot written out during the previous seasons, must be hard trying to tie it all together

  77. Cat says:

    Why did Miles specifically point out the children swings when he came upon The Other’s old community? Did he know that it’s impossible to have a baby on the island so he was surprised to see the swings.

  78. omar says:

    ok i got the golden ticket..Micheal is the spy on the boat, the four people on the helicopter did come for ben…not to kill him, but to rescue him..alpert already took the others to the temple which is the freighter, and those are bens people on the freighter…dont yall get it, ben has been beaten, almost killed and captured, he needs to get off the island more than anyone else in the show, but cant because alpert or abaddon is some kind of big boss, or there might be someone above them, but the real deal is that ben cant get off the island even tho he has passports and leaves often, is beacause he needs a replacement for his position….thats where john locke comes into play, cause he wants to stay and take over,…even jacob has lost faith in ben and wants locke to replace him….so the freighter is here to rescue and get ben off the island and thats it….oh and locke cant stay alone so he needs people thats why he split the camp in two…ben is the most intelligent man on the island and knows exactly, i mean exactly what he is doin…..he has been planning it for a long time now, ever since the plane crashed…that might have even been a set up..

  79. omar says:

    have yall gone to the tailsection blog and read those theories on “vile Vortices”, which make alot of sense of jumping from one dimension to another…

  80. Teresa says:

    [quote comment="181650"]Ok…New to this site but here is a couple theories based on what I have read…

    Desmond is the spy. It explains his “visions”. He leaves the island for very short amount of times in island time, but can be 10 times that amount of time outside the island. So he sees that Charlie dies, and comes back to the island with his “visions”. He saves Charlie for reasons we don’t understand yet.

    The time delay (about 10 times as long outside the island) explains why in the first episode of the season, the tv coverage talks about the “2004 crash of Oceanic flight 815″

    We assume that we know 4 of the Oceanic 6, but don’t assume…The only ones we know for sure who have said they are members of the Oceanic 6 are Sawyer and Sayid…Jack must be also because he is back as a doctor at his old hospital…Never did Kate say she was a member of the Oceanic 6. She may have gotten off the island unknown to anyone else.

    I also agree Michael is on the freighter, but I don’t agree he is Ben’s mole on the freighter…I think he is on there to come back and look for Walt…

    Again I am new to this board but have always been a fan of Lost. Let me know what you think.[/quote]
    I like your theory about Desmond, that would explain why we don’t see him for stretches at a time and if this time difference thing is about the island being on slower time, then that would explain his “visions” – how he knows things ahead of time – interesting – I hope you’re right about him, because he does seem to be a key player.

    Also interesting theory about Kate not being one of the oceanic 6 – she would want to stay under the radar due to her “wanted” past. She could be referring to Sawyer, or if, as some have suggested she is working for Ben, that could be who she is referring too – which would still leave us three spots open for the oceanic 6 at this point – I think.

    Ok – It’s late and I’m tired but this if fun trying figure everything out. We should all make a list of our predictions and then see how many of them are right! Oh wait, that is sort of what we are doing isn’t it :)

  81. Teresa says:

    Oh and I almost forgot – did anyone watch the repeat episode of last weeks show that gave pop-up explanations? When they were showing the tv coverage of the “found oceanic flight” there was a number at the bottom of their tv screen – -tonights pop-up said to call it for information about LOST. the number was 1.888.548.0034 – I called it – don’t waste your time – it is basically bogus – just gives a recording about the crash investigation and tells you there is nothing new! Oh, and if you are a family member of a victim of flight 815 they are sorry for your loss!

    They do like to play mind games with us don’t they!

  82. pistols says:

    I think the writers said that the person in the casket is someone we already knew & we hadn’t met Abbadon at that point.
    The person in the casket is Rose. Hence, if the wormhole theory is correct- she was cancer free on the island, but once off of the island (as one of the 6?) she may have died of her cancer.

  83. @Omar: I did a quick look at the Latitude and Longitude coordinates that you get from the 2 watches. 2.45.03N x 3.16.22W. The coordinates are definately out in the ocean… the only problem is wrong ocean. These coordinates are off the coast of Nigeria, Africa. See for yourself: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=address&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=2&latmin=45&latsec=03&longdeg=3&longmin=16&longsec=22

    Now this is what mapquest spat out at me. I’m not 100% sure it’s right. Anyone else have any ideas?

  84. tickles says:

    First off…this was a great episode. Sayid is Hot with a capitol H!!!
    They are doing a great job keeping me confused…everytime I think I have something figured out…the next episode pops a hole in my balloon! But here is my take on the episode.
    My heart dropped when I realized that Hurley did set up Kate and Sayid. I think he did it for the right reasons though…he doesn’t want anyone else to be killed. He went with Locke to honor Charlie. I think Hurley feels Charlie was trying to tell them they would die if they leave the island when he died. Hurley is 100% good guy…just a little misguided at times. I was glad to find out it was a set up on one hand because I would have been very disappointed if Rose, Bernard, Claire, Sun and her husband had let Locke do that to Hurley.
    Whoever said that Ben is like Jason Bourne was right on…I thought the very same thing! Explains how Kate was able to come back without any problems. Ben was able to give her a new identity. And Ben must have some kind of medical background..that is how he was able to recruit Juliet in the first place.
    Sayid is working for Ben in order to protect his friends…Sayid has friends on both sides. Perhaps Sayid feels he is doing the noble thing by returning to the work (killing and torture) he hated to save the people he has come to care about.
    As to why Jack wasn’t worried about Kate. Jack knows that Sawyer loves Kate and he will protect her.
    I kind of think the island is like a Holy Grail and there are factions out to protect it at all costs and others want to destroy it and a 3rd. faction wants to exploit it. The people who survived the plane crash are just kind of caught in the middle. The Darhma Group wants to exploit it…I think Ben wants to protect it. He just goes about it in a funny way. The island doesn’t change a person..it just magnifies the faults and good qualities of the people on it. Locke was made almost superhuman and will do anything not to return to being paralyzed.
    I still wonder why everyone seems to trust Desmond. I have been suspicious of him from the very first. Don’t like him…he is kind of swarmy if you know what I mean! And for supposedly being so in love with Penny it sure seemed like he was set to make a move on Claire last season.
    Whatever happens I am in it for the long run. My heart broke when they killed Charlie..but I love Hurley and like I said…Sayid is HOT!

  85. tc909 says:

    It appeared that Kate is a celebrity in the future from the previews for next week’s episode, so she must be one of the “6”.

    I don’t buy Sayid giving the German Girl Naomi’s bracelet. Who in the world would want a bracelet with someone else’s inscription on it?

    What was the deal with Locke and the sand where he thought the cabin was supposed to be?

  86. renato says:

    you wanna know who the oceanic 6 is, it shows on the Lost season 4 promo poster, a light shines down on 6 people, ben,sayid,hurley,kate,jack and the last one is claire and so far 5 of those people weve seen

  87. renato says:

    but then again ben wasn’t on the flight so it might one more person either than ben, which i think is locke or sawyer

  88. lostfreak14 says:

    great episode.
    #21 i love your theory. that might just be.
    #36 the portal in the hidden closet. that’s a good idea.
    #52 that is insane (in a good way).

    the person on the boat could be Micheal or walt, but it couldn.t be Desmond or Sayid because they haven’t left the island and Ben says that he has a man on the boat. this means that the person is on the boat right now (in lost world).

  89. renato says:

    or desmond by some lucky chance…here is the poster…http://images.lostpedia.com/images/0/09/Lost_season_4_poster.jpg,

    it also shows a pic of the skyline and and a number 6 in the water, im sure everyone already seen this tho

  90. renato says:

    does anyone know the character who plays alpert is now on a show called cain?

  91. deangoodes says:

    Omar–One of the most famous scenes of LOST is when Ben and the Others look up in the sky with amazement when the plane breaks into two and he sends people to join each half to find out what is going on. THERE IS NO WAY THEY EXPECTED THAT PLANE TO COME TO THE ISLAND AND CRASH!! A regular poster like yourself should remember that.

  92. vavila says:

    Brilliant episode! :) wooohoooo!

    – i don’t think Ben is the sole mastermind for everything, i think there is another leader (in addition to the mysterious Jacob, maybe Alpert?). Ben plays a key role in whatever the plan is and does a lot of dirty work while other leader(s) stay in the background not to compromise the island and whatever their mission is.

    Chrisboro 68 – ‘Ben’s a good guy’, i actually think he really might be (in terms of having island’s interests in mind) and his tactics, despite their ruthlessness, might just get the job done.

    Lost chika 62 – ‘Sayid is being forced to be the bed guy to save others’ and Teresa 72 Ben and Sayid are good guys ‘on the mission’ – i agree. i don’t think Sayid was necessarily forced, he just knows more and understand’s Ben’s mission (Sayid is not a guy to manipulate even by Ben).

    i think the key is to understand why exactly Ben and others launched an attack on Dharma people in the beginning as obeviously they didn’t get rid of all of them so the fight continues and Ben and Sayid have to carry it out outside the island now (and perhaps they are most suitable for that even though there are other supporters and beneficiaries from what they do; they don’t do it just for themselves)

    Omar 81 – Locke potentially replacing Ben on the island – very interesting… Maybe this is needed to enable Ben to take a more active role in protecting the island (or whatever Ben’s true motivation is) outside the island…

    who knows!

  93. Joel says:

    I had to talk to my “Lost Lovers” club this morning over breakfast to understand a lot of what happened last night! So many new directions to understand.
    Did anyone else realize that Daniel Faraday was possibly a paraplegic in his flashback last week, and now he is walking around the island (do I hear John Locke?) He was seated in front of a TV, he had a caretaker, and when he was on the helicopter, the other folks said they had to push him out!
    Did anyone think that the RG on the bracelet might stand for Regina? Was the guy on the golf course possibly the boss (the economist), and we saw Sayid kill him before we even knew about him?
    As much as I follow this blog, I did not see the Hurley ploy coming. I was totally duped by that. I have to wonder, though, how/why he did it. I mean, was he threatened, bribed, or does he just not care about Sayid? He said “Sorry, dude”, but it just was unlike Hurley.
    I am really confused by the absence of Jacob’s house/shack. I had thought that the ring of ash around it somehow kept Jacob hostage there so that Ben could sort of manipulate him (thus, “Help me!”).
    Responses?

  94. renato says:

    joel, that daniel thing is a very very very good observation

  95. Missy says:

    [quote comment="181650"]Ok…New to this site but here is a couple theories based on what I have read…

    Desmond is the spy. It explains his “visions”. He leaves the island for very short amount of times in island time, but can be 10 times that amount of time outside the island. So he sees that Charlie dies, and comes back to the island with his “visions”. He saves Charlie for reasons we don’t understand yet.

    The time delay (about 10 times as long outside the island) explains why in the first episode of the season, the tv coverage talks about the “2004 crash of Oceanic flight 815″

    We assume that we know 4 of the Oceanic 6, but don’t assume…The only ones we know for sure who have said they are members of the Oceanic 6 are Sawyer and Sayid…Jack must be also because he is back as a doctor at his old hospital…Never did Kate say she was a member of the Oceanic 6. She may have gotten off the island unknown to anyone else.

    I also agree Michael is on the freighter, but I don’t agree he is Ben’s mole on the freighter…I think he is on there to come back and look for Walt…

    Again I am new to this board but have always been a fan of Lost. Let me know what you think.[/quote]

    So we know Sawyer is one of the O6? How did I miss that? I’ve been so nervous that the end is near for him since it seems his story has resolved itself. But I love him and Kate together.

  96. renato says:

    good point but i dont think he was cause i dont think naomi would have brought a quadro if she knew the mission could have been dangerous

  97. Joel says:

    Still…something is up with Faraday that we are only beginning to see. Especially if he had a “caretaker”.

  98. PJSander says:

    Wild theory: Naomi is Nadia’s sister. The “Tell my sister I love her” was NOT (just) code for “I am in trouble.” That was Nadia’s bracelet that Sayid took. Nadia is alive and THAT is why Sayid wants to get to the freighter so badly.

    The flash-forwards seems to be set in different time periods, so who knows where Sayid/Ben scene from last week’s episode fits in with the funeral parlor scene from the season 3 finale, but I still think it is Ben in that casket.

    I always believed that Kate was not one of the O6, and then the trailer for next week made me question myself. However, now I think that perhaps Kate becomes famous for something else – she IS gorgeous, maybe she becomes a model!

    The “ash” around the cabin… looks a lot like kitty litter.

    Before we saw Ben’s face at the vet, I guessed it was him, but he sure SOUNDED like the “Jacob” voice that said “help me” to Locke. I don’t think Jacob exists – I think Ben set that whole thing up to “hook” Locke. I always suspected that, but now I am more confident in it. That’s why the cabin “disappeared” because Ben was finished with it.

    I still think Evangeline Lily is MUCH prettier withOUT all that makeup from the season 3 finale.

    : ) P

  99. Mars says:

    Just a few observations and thoughts:

    The name on Ben’s passport: “DEAN MOHIGHAN”, a character from Jack Kerouac’s “On the Road”

    Naomi’s bracelet: The inscription was signed by the intials RG. The woman that the tots speak with is Regina and she sounds very similar to Naomi, could they be twins? When “Naomi” speaks to Abaddon about picking the four to go to the island, was that really Naomi or Regina?

    Desmond and the picture of him and Penny that Naomi carried: The burning question, how does Naomi have this picture? Well, there is one character that everyone seems to forget, Desmond’s former hatchmate, remember the man who pushed the button for years before Desmond arrived on the island? The special forces commander from Iraq that has a link to Sayid? He’s connected to this in a very important way. Consider this: he’s not apart of the the others, he’s not a part of Dharma, he arrived on the island in someway like the freighter tots. Why? Well, Ben killed the Dharma initiative people you think he would have left one alive? He can’t be apart of the Others either because how could he have served in the military in Iraq? Could he have somehow sent a copy of Desmond’s picture off the island? In addition much like the tots when we first meet him, he is dressed in what? A chemical suit and a gas mask… just like the freighter tots brought with them. Although this guy only was in a few episodes and Desmond did kill him… it seems to be important to the story arc this year….

    Sayid: The first man he kills is on a golf course in South Africa… The man did not recognize Sayid but the look of fear on his face after hearing Sayid’s name was unmistakable.

    The island: Could the magnetic anomalies account for the slowing of time? If the magnetic field around the island is different compared to the rest of the earth would that slow time? Also the “magnetic expulsions”, ie when Desmond almost didn’t push the button in time which resulted in Oceanic 815 crashing and two seasons ago when the hatch exploded resulting in Penny’s antarctica team to “See” the island…. Do these magnetic expulsions result the island “jumping” into real time momentarily, thereby altering the space / time area around it? Think about it if the island is thirty minutes or three hours behind… does it exist in what one considers real time….?

  100. barbara says:

    The woman that Sayid had to execute was familiar to him…she is the face on the Oceanic 815 golden ticket commercial…i can’t help believe that the passangers & the crash were all a set-up from the beginning also, about 80% of the main character names ARE biblical John, Jack, James are actually ALL derivitaves of Jacob and now Regina was the mother of Jacob in the bible. They sure pick clever names even if it’s only to keep us guessing!!!

  101. Paul says:

    WOW!! This show is out of control! OK where to begin? I think the bracelet Naomi was wearing had an N and a RG. Well it sure looked like the woman Sayid killed in France was wearing that bracelet as well. I think that the N is Nadia- Sayid’s lost love and the Rg is the Republican Guard. Remember when Sayid was in Paris in a flashback and was captured? Jack is not leaving that island without Kate. And what is up with the previews of Kate and Sawyer making out on the bed for next week. ATTENTION ALL JATERS!! WE HAVE A SITUATION ON OUR HANDS!! Can’t wait for next week.

  102. Barb says:

    I haven’t read all the comments – yet – but want to get my question out there: did anyone notice the voice when sayid was getting stitched up in the vet’s office – at first sounded like Christian Shephard and then seemed to morph into Ben’s????

    I think it’s obvious Sayid is doing Ben’s dirty work to keep those on the island safe.

    Who was the Italian Sayid shot? He seemed to freak out when Sayid told him he was one of the Oceanic 6 – like he knew what was coming.

  103. tc909 says:

    The passport reads “Dean Moriarty”, not “Dean Moghigan”.

  104. Bubbleburster says:

    Though the episode made for good entertainment, and was a great episode, Lost is officially a night-time soap opera. The twist of Sayid trusting and working with Ben was one tell tale sign, albeit minor. I will now watch it as such and the Pandora’s box of possibilities is officially open.

    Hopefully, it is obvious that Sayid must help Ben in order to help the rest of the Oceanic survivors that aren’t part of the O6. Problem is that the people they are killing have to be somewhat aware that Ben or whoever is after them.

    The guy on the golf course starts feeling uneasy when Sayid mentions he’s part of the O6. The part that gave me issues, was the ole fall in love with the enemy, but not really story line with Sayid and the German woman. I mean she shoots him and casually gets on the phone with her boss, knowing Sayid was there to kill him or her? Couple old guy’s uneasiness, with her knowledge of him being a killer, means she should be on her toes.

    She would have to know he has some kind of killer instrument on him, and appeared to have pieced together his facade when talking on the phone. Not a good piece of writing given how dangerous/careful the powers that be seem to be with regard to all things island.

    No way is Desmond on the boat as Ben’s spy. Doesn’t make any sense. He’s been on the island the whole time, no incentive to help Ben. Definitely, no way is Sayid Ben’s guy on the boat, are you folks watching the same show I was?

    I don’t think Ben is a “good guy” at all, at the very best he can be an “anti-hero.” That would be a tough sell however at this point, given his past antics (namely being jealous that Locke could hear Jacob and shooting and killing him leaving him for dead).

    Locke is a prime candidate for Anti-hero. He is someone we root for, even though he seems to lack traditional hero qualities. Lone wolf mentality sort of thing, plus he’s killing people (Naomi) w/o concrete evidence of her being evil.

    Action/suspense/twist I give it a 8.5/10.
    Writing I give it a 5/10.

  105. rochelle scott says:

    renato: does anyone know the character who plays alpert is now on a show called cain?

    Yes, he is on the show with Jimmy Smits,”Cane” and is is the brother, Frank, who is actually one of the main characters on the show. Interesting post on where the “Others” are, I think they will surface again for sure.

  106. Preeth says:

    That “ash” around the cabin is sort of like a black magic thing. I believe its either ash, or gunpowder or some sort of powder, that repels evil spirits away from an area surrounded by that “powder”.

  107. Bubbleburster says:

    [quote comment="181865"]I had to talk to my “Lost Lovers” club this morning over breakfast to understand a lot of what happened last night! So many new directions to understand.
    Did anyone else realize that Daniel Faraday was possibly a paraplegic in his flashback last week, and now he is walking around the island (do I hear John Locke?) He was seated in front of a TV, he had a caretaker, and when he was on the helicopter, the other folks said they had to push him out!
    Did anyone think that the RG on the bracelet might stand for Regina? Was the guy on the golf course possibly the boss (the economist), and we saw Sayid kill him before we even knew about him?
    As much as I follow this blog, I did not see the Hurley ploy coming. I was totally duped by that. I have to wonder, though, how/why he did it. I mean, was he threatened, bribed, or does he just not care about Sayid? He said “Sorry, dude”, but it just was unlike Hurley.
    I am really confused by the absence of Jacob’s house/shack. I had thought that the ring of ash around it somehow kept Jacob hostage there so that Ben could sort of manipulate him (thus, “Help me!”).
    Responses?[/quote]

    No way was Daniel physically challenged prior to the island. Don’t you think the other four people would be looking at him in amazement? The four people don’t know each other like that, they were thrown together for some purpose. Somebody would have said something. He’s just a headcase.

  108. RGS says:

    [quote comment="181865"]I had to talk to my “Lost Lovers” club this morning over breakfast to understand a lot of what happened last night! So many new directions to understand.
    Did anyone else realize that Daniel Faraday was possibly a paraplegic in his flashback last week, and now he is walking around the island (do I hear John Locke?) He was seated in front of a TV, he had a caretaker, and when he was on the helicopter, the other folks said they had to push him out!
    Did anyone think that the RG on the bracelet might stand for Regina? Was the guy on the golf course possibly the boss (the economist), and we saw Sayid kill him before we even knew about him?
    As much as I follow this blog, I did not see the Hurley ploy coming. I was totally duped by that. I have to wonder, though, how/why he did it. I mean, was he threatened, bribed, or does he just not care about Sayid? He said “Sorry, dude”, but it just was unlike Hurley.
    I am really confused by the absence of Jacob’s house/shack. I had thought that the ring of ash around it somehow kept Jacob hostage there so that Ben could sort of manipulate him (thus, “Help me!”).
    Responses?[/quote]

    Pretty good episode. I think the reason the cabin was not visible, is because there were all the other folks there who are not “worthy” enough to see Jacob and the cabin. Remember Ben took Locke there to see if he could see Jacob. That is why the Others thought he was special. If you bring other people to the spot that are not worthy, they will not be able to see it. Just a thought.

  109. Paul says:

    There seems to be a time delay between the island and the freighter. Approx. 36 minutes according to Daniel’s experiment. I think that the helicopter is going to get stuck in a time delay next week. And yes, I believe that Naomi is Nadia’s sister.

  110. deangoodes says:

    Bubbleburster–Phenomenal postings, I agree with you ALMOST completely with everything you said. First, did the other posters not hear when Ben said to Sayid on the Vet’s table that you need to keep doing what I tell you to or your friends will get hurt? So Sayid is definitely biding time until he can find a way to get back to the island and help those that were left behind by doing Ben’s dirty work.
    Secondly, Sayid and Desmond are not on the boat, that is obvious but other posters are in their own world apparently.
    And lastly, Daniel would not have been brought to the island to help capture/kill/confront Ben if he were paralyzed.
    The only part I somewhat disagree with is when the German woman is on the phone: she is keeping a pretty close eye on Sayid and earlier he has said he understands no German so she probably feels comfortable talking to her boss without Sayid understanding. Then he breaks the mirror so she can’t see him reach for the gun and gives himself just enough time to shoot her.
    One last note- Ben is bad. No ifs ands or buts about it. He has done too many deceptive and manipulative things to be anything but bad. From the beginning of the Others, he has a long list of criminal acts starting with the baby stealing and moving on to forcing Michael to kidnap (and ultimately kill) some of the Losties.

  111. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    Ok, here’s something that I was thinking during the show. Sayid was having a flashback, not a flashforward when he met the German woman. Now, when he killed the guy on the golf course, that was a flashforward. Something is given to him so he doesn’t remember Ben when the crash happens. He has been planted on the plane and now on the freighter. Ben controls him. The injection does this. I know this is wrong but I can’t figure out how Sayid knew about the bracelet on Naomi but acted like he had never seen it before after he shot his German lover. I’m extremely confused as you can tell. But this show answered a lot last night. We just don’t know all of what it answered yet. Ok, now make me understand why I’m so wrong about this. I really want to be wrong.

  112. ghostrider says:

    Look up the element holmium (symbol HO) in the periodic table of the elements.

  113. RGS says:

    [quote comment="181906"]There seems to be a time delay between the island and the freighter. Approx. 36 minutes according to Daniel’s experiment. I think that the helicopter is going to get stuck in a time delay next week. And yes, I believe that Naomi is Nadia’s sister.[/quote]

    The time travel/delay/continuum, is going to be hard to sell after this next episode, IF they don’t address it. If the island has slowed time for the occupants, while the real world operates on another time dimension, then when they get back to the freightor (if they get back) there would be all kinds of questions being asked. “hey you guys have been gone 2 weeks (or whatever) what the heck is going on?”

    Moreover, when Daniel picks up the phone and talks to the freightor folks, they too would be asking questions like, “ok you guys have been gone 2 days (or whatever) what are you guys doing?”

    If the mission is to get Ben, and they are some special operations group thrown together, the apparent leader of the freighters (I forget the name, but Miles asks to speak to him and is stonewalled, and the Pilot tells Daniel to hang up if he picks up) is pretty nonchalant about them being there. One would think he’d want updates as to what was going on, especially since one of his people (Naomi) gave the trouble signal or he knew was killed.

  114. RGS says:

    [quote comment="181908"]Ok, here’s something that I was thinking during the show. Sayid was having a flashback, not a flashforward when he met the German woman. Now, when he killed the guy on the golf course, that was a flashforward. Something is given to him so he doesn’t remember Ben when the crash happens. He has been planted on the plane and now on the freighter. Ben controls him. The injection does this. I know this is wrong but I can’t figure out how Sayid knew about the bracelet on Naomi but acted like he had never seen it before after he shot his German lover. I’m extremely confused as you can tell. But this show answered a lot last night. We just don’t know all of what it answered yet. Ok, now make me understand why I’m so wrong about this. I really want to be wrong.[/quote]

    Yep you are wrong. It appears that going forward, traditional characters will be flashing forward, while the new ones get flashbacks, only to give background information as to who they are or how they came to be.

    Ben says to Sayid, “Remember what happened the last time you thought with your heart not your gun.” Though it is not a direct reference to island activity, it simply would not make sense for him to reference something “pre-island” that we as viewers would have no idea what he was talking about. Film is expensive, so they can’t start telling “irrelevant tales.”

    Finally there has been no time for Sayid to get captured, memory loss planted in him, and then Ben stealing away to keep giving him memory loss injections. K.I.S.Silly. I won’t call it stupid because like another poster put up, the pandora’s box is open and it is a possibility, though I think it is weak.

    We don’t know what Sayid was thinking when he looked at the German woman’s bracelet. He could have been reading the inscription. I don’t think he was acting like he knew what Naomi’s bracelet was, but if he did, maybe it is because it was a military thing. The inscription however seemed hardly military.

  115. Tim says:

    OK, I’ve just started watching this show as off this season but here is what I’ve surmised.

    Island time is 1/30 of real time (roughly). therefore 90 days really equals approx. 90 months.
    That is why Charlotte says something to the effect of “Have you really been living on this island that long?” when she first talks to the Losties.

    That would also explain why the one character comes back a lot bigger, he was actually a couple or few years older because he was off the island.

    That would also explain other people aging much quicker than they should have in respect to the islands time.

    Not sure how they can talk to others on the freighter in real time, but that might have something to do with the special phones/walkie talkies they are using.

    Just a way out there theory, this island is similar to the lost continent of atlantis, in that it was super advanced, technology wise, thousands of years ago. This would explain the polar bear in the dessert with the Dharma collar. Dharma has been operating there for thousands of years in a relatively high tech way, experimenting with polar bears etc.

  116. lostlaur says:

    How can Naomi be Nadia’s sister? Yes, she has tan skin but other than that she doesn’t really have any middle eastern features. Also she has a British (or something like it) accent, that is completely different than Nadia & Sayid’s. Unless she was the long lost sister who grew up in a British boarding school or something. But I’m pretty sure that would be a bit ridiculous.

    I’m glad they’re bringing back some good old Lostie sex next week- all this batman lair in Ben’s house, secret agent Sayid & Hurley being bait was really starting to get me down.

    I don’t agree that the writers are just making stuff up now. I’m pretty sure that shows have to start out with a pretty complete storyline in case they have to end it after 1 or 2 seasons. Since it was so popular from the beginning they may have had to tweak it a bit or find ways to expand it but I definitely don’t think it’s all freestyle.

    It’s just that in the past seasons its been all about developing the characters & their stories. They couldn’t figure out how to get off the island on their own, so they sort of tinkered around and besides Michael didn’t really have a sense of urgency about it. They focused on surviving. Now that there are outside forces and a clear opportunity to get off the island, they have that motivation to be worried less on relationships & introspection and more about action. Plus some of them have a really important reason to get off the island- Sun and Jin for ex.

    I think that even though Ben had all those passports & money, he hasn’t been off the island recently. If he did couldn’t he have figured out a way to keep the freighties away ahead of time? That didn’t involve him being turned into hamburger meat by Sawyer & Jack…

    Things I am DYING to see in the next few episodes:
    The temple
    Jacob & his cabin
    Jack’s dad
    More flashBACKS from the freighties- especially Miles
    More Sun, Jin and Hurley just cause I like them

  117. Tim says:

    Another theory, if Ben leaves the island every week, island time, that would mean he is leaving the island once every 210 days (assuming one day on island equals 30 days outside island).

    The girl Sayid kills says her boss only shows up about twice a year (every 210 days approx) so maybe Ben is her boss.

  118. Lost Anoraks says:

    -Walt is dead, Walt’s been dead sorry to say. No one shows up out of thin air only if there dead, i.e.-Jack’s father, Charlie, and Walt.

    ** Could it be that Walt has always been ‘dead’ and that’s why his step-father was weirded out by him and sent him back to Michael?

  119. Hey Lost Bloggers–I’m afraid I’ve had to unsubscribe from your RSS feed because of this post. Sticking a big photo of Sayid on top and revealing he’s the subject of the episode in the first sentence, without warning, spoiled the ep for me.

  120. deangoodes says:

    Sean T.-You’ll be greatly missed??!! Who the Bleep cares? And how does Sayid’s pic ruin an entire episode??

  121. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="181918"]How can Naomi be Nadia’s sister? Yes, she has tan skin but other than that she doesn’t really have any middle eastern features. Also she has a British (or something like it) accent, that is completely different than Nadia & Sayid’s. Unless she was the long lost sister who grew up in a British boarding school or something. But I’m pretty sure that would be a bit ridiculous.[/quote]

    My theory started from the fact that Sayid looked as if he KNEW that bracelet – perhaps he gave it to Nadia? I think Naomi has “middle eastern” features as much as Sayid did. And actually, I don’t really think Nadia had “middle eastern” features. If Naomi is an experienced operative, affecting an accent wouldn’t be too difficult. I don’t remember Nadia’s voice.

    : ) P

  122. Barb says:

    Nadia’s Iraqi
    Naomi’s Australian – looks aboriginal. They are not related.

  123. nakira says:

    Wow, wow wow! Great comments Shooter, tc909, lostchicka, Paul. Its funny how people get similar ideas.

    First of all what’s up with Sayid being with white girls that are “no good for him”. Shannon was the one who lied in the airport that Sayid left a bag and got him in trouble and now German girl (I think her name was Elsa or Ilsa) who wants to bring him in to her boss. I also think the bracelet has a history with Sayid -prior to island. Sayid wouldn’t lift something off a dead woman and then give it to a new girl, especially after a week. (I would throw that crap back if it had someone else’s initials). Naomi must have gotten the bracelet from someone who had the bracelet after Sayid, like the American soldier who made Sayid a torturer. Plus Naomi also had a book in Portugues (researchers working with Penny) and Desmond’s picture (Penny). I guess she went to a garage sale of Losties’ related items :). N could stand for Nadia and RG for Republican Guard so Sayid’s identity would be protected. He must have gotten it either in Austraila or Europe otherwise it would have been written in Arabic, like Nadia wrote on her picture. Maybe he got Elsa’s bracelet at the same place….aah. I don’t think Nadia and Naomi are sisters though.

    The list is probably one that leads to Abbadon (like Kill Bill) with the bad guys (either Dharma related or unknown evil people who want to exploit the island) and the other side that Sayid works for has Ben and then Jacob? at the top. Sayid understands ben’s mission now, preserve the island no matter what the cost.

    Love Hurley’s reference to Miles…”Great, they sent us another Sawyer”. I was thinking same thing, just Sawyer in Asian guy form and not as hot. Sawyer and Kate hook up again in next episode and in Ben’s room, that’s a little gross. Maybe Ben helps Kate get a new identity since he’s good at it and also strikes a deal with Sawyer, another member of the O6.

    Thanks you science people for breaking down the math and time differnce. I was trying to remember my physics class last night to see the difference but I didn’t know the average rate of a missle/rocket like that. With the time/space difference – ripple in time?, can’t think of the book I read in 6th grade trying to remember. Now it makes sense the women dying by being pregnant, the body is good at adapting, but we need 40 weeks gestation and if the timing is off, such as too fast/slow the body may not be able to handle it and ergo miscarriages/death.

    The Red Sox comment was good since pilot guy didn’t mention exactly how long ago that was.

    What was the golf course guy’s name, Sayid said it before he died and obviously this character had something to do with the crash or with the “rescue crew” and tried to avoid Sayid after he said he was one of the 06. Or maybe the bracelet was given to Naomi from one of the members from the List.

    This season seems full of twists and turns. What about Smokey or where’s Patchy – on the freighter/dead and what’s up with his 9 lives. When are they going to show the Orchid or reveal more Jacob info.

    Lovin LOST

  124. deangoodes says:

    The guy Sayid killed on the golf course did seem confused/amazed/nervous after Sayid told him who he was, but he pulled himself together enough to hit a terrific golf shot; which anyone that plays golf knows would be very difficult if you were really that nervous. So that part confuses me, but it does seem like he knew he was in danger.

  125. 1BRED says:

    WELL, I REALLY LIKED LAST NIGHTS EP. WHAT GOT ME IS,1.THE 30 MIN TIME DIFFERENCE MIGHT MULTIPLY ITSELF LIKE RIPPLES IN A SPLASH MAKING IT 1 YEAR REALLY 20+ YEARS .OR 2.DANIEL KNOWS THE EXACT ANGLE TO PASS THRU A TIME WORMHOLE THATS WHY THERE IS A PLANE IN THE OCEAN IN ONE DIMENSION AND A PLANE ON THE ISLAND IN ANOTHER..PLUS THE HELICOPTER PILOT WHO SAID HE WAS SUPPOSE TO BE ON OCEANIC815 WAS ACTUALLY ON THE ONE IN THE PILOT EPISODE(HE’S THE ONE TO GET GRABBED BY THE MONSTER IN THE COCKPIT)

  126. RGS says:

    [quote comment="181917"]OK, I’ve just started watching this show as off this season but here is what I’ve surmised.

    Island time is 1/30 of real time (roughly). therefore 90 days really equals approx. 90 months.
    That is why Charlotte says something to the effect of “Have you really been living on this island that long?” when she first talks to the Losties.

    That would also explain why the one character comes back a lot bigger, he was actually a couple or few years older because he was off the island.

    That would also explain other people aging much quicker than they should have in respect to the islands time.

    Not sure how they can talk to others on the freighter in real time, but that might have something to do with the special phones/walkie talkies they are using.

    Just a way out there theory, this island is similar to the lost continent of atlantis, in that it was super advanced, technology wise, thousands of years ago. This would explain the polar bear in the dessert with the Dharma collar. Dharma has been operating there for thousands of years in a relatively high tech way, experimenting with polar bears etc.[/quote]

    The problem I’m having with the time continuum references is that when the new folks get there, it really would be astonishing, and not in the sarcastic way that Miles gave, that the Losties had been on the island for 90 months, 2 years, or whatever we have calculated the “lost time” to be.

    Thus when Sayid tells him, you’re not surprised, it would be hard to sell the, “gee your part of the Oceanic flight 815 that crashed 2 years ago…*wow*”.

    Charlotte would also have been like, “you guys have been living on this island since the plane crashed, 2 years ago?”

  127. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    One other thing I thought was interesting last night. This settles some of the talk on this blog last ep. Sawyer called Kate ‘Freckles’ last night. He also called her Kate. I think sometimes we read too much into this show. See my post above as a perfect example.

    Did Locke make that sand line in a previous ep when looking for the cabin? I guess we’re just supposed to know he left bread crumbs like that?

  128. RGS says:

    [quote comment="181929"]The guy Sayid killed on the golf course did seem confused/amazed/nervous after Sayid told him who he was, but he pulled himself together enough to hit a terrific golf shot; which anyone that plays golf knows would be very difficult if you were really that nervous. So that part confuses me, but it does seem like he knew he was in danger.[/quote]

    Well the powers that be, seem to be cool and calm, and so it is plausible that he could hit that shot even knowing the danger. Also he may not have known the exact danger, just that he doesn’t want to be too close to the O6 because he knows about the island.

    If they felt the O6 were that dangerous, they in their mysterious ways, would seemingly be able to off them one by one, or simultaneously.

    The List members don’t seem to know that Ben is still alive though, that’s why German woman’s boss wanted to ask Sayid questions. So they in theory may not have known they were in supreme danger, even after they start getting killed, since they may not keep in constant contact with each other.

    Which bring me to how will Sayid be able to continue his hunt, if at least one List Member knows that he is a target, and seems powerful enough to counter his activity. It would also seem like Sayid’s actions may put the other O6 in jeopardy, as one of them all of a sudden is killing people?

  129. Tim says:

    There is definitely a time difference but it really doesn’t make sense because night and day are determined by the spin of the earth and if the island is on the earth, it should have the same day and night as the rest of the planet.
    But that being said, it is science fiction and some people will let this slip in favour of a good story.

    So the rocket took around 30+ minutes to travel 25 miles (40 Km) which means it is travelling at a little less that 60 miles/hour (1 mile/minute).

    Does this mean only a couple minutes have passed in island time? How much time did Daniel perceive had passed?

  130. RGS says:

    [quote comment="181935"]One other thing I thought was interesting last night. This settles some of the talk on this blog last ep. Sawyer called Kate ‘Freckles’ last night. He also called her Kate. I think sometimes we read too much into this show. See my post above as a perfect example.

    Did Locke make that sand line in a previous ep when looking for the cabin? I guess we’re just supposed to know he left bread crumbs like that?[/quote]

    That sand line was there previously. Locke made a definite mental note of the sand line. While we surmised that it may be something to keep powers out/in, it may have just been a marker to let those in the know, know where the Cabin is, in case they are with folks who are not worthy enough to see the Cabin/Jacob.

  131. Skippy says:

    Has Ben aged more relative to the other others? That would seem to support his off-island travel (ages while he is away) as well as the need for him to be replaced.

  132. Toeknee says:

    I didn’t see this mentioned yet – sorry if I missed it.

    Since Naomi arrived on the island last season, there has been lots of speculation as to who hired her, and one of the theories (which I think is possible) is that it was Penny’s dad. In this episode, when Desmond asked Frank and Daniel why Naomi had the picture of him and Penny, he mentioned her full name (Penelope Widmore), and then Frank and Daniel sort of looked at each other as if that meant something to them. That makes me think even moreso that Penny’s dad is involved in this. How or why? I don’t know that…..

  133. Tina says:

    Zoe Bell is listed as the actress playing Regina on lostpedia. I IMDBed her to double check that this was the same ZOE Bell from Grindhouse and it is. She doesn’t look anything like Naomi. I think that whole “tell my sister I love her thing” was definitely code for “i’m in trouble”.

    I’m throwing my hat in with the Kate’s working for Ben in the future camp. Jack would understand how manipulative and evil he is given his interactions with him on the island. Likely Kate is employed similarly to Sayid as an assasin of sorts. The question we need to ask then is who is being targeted and for what reason?

    Future Kate & Sayid don’t seem to care much about going BACK to the island, though Future Jack does. WHY?

  134. adriennez says:

    I wrote this in a different post but I think Naomi calling Daniel a “head case” may be a clue that he was in the same mental hospital with Hurley, Libby, and the numbers guy at some point.

    The whole Sayid thing was mind blowing! It seems like Ben is manipulating him into assasinating the people on this list…Ben said something about you want to help your friends, right? I was so expecting to see Vincent in the vet’s.

    I saw a screenshot of Naomi’s bracelet. It said “N, I’ll always be with you. R.G.” So I guess Elsa and Naomi worked for, were involved with, or at least knew the same person?

    The time difference between the island and the world is intriguing and I’m sure part of the big picture.

    I still am not sure who Ben’s man on the boat is. Was the fact that Sayid is doing his bidding in the future a clue that he is the man on the boat? Maybe when they were together in the game room they struck some kind of deal and Ben knew when he said that(last week)that he would be able to turn one of them to working with him.

    Overall great episode! I adore Sayid and think that he is one of the few who’s mission has stayed consistent on the show…to help his friends no matter what, without his own agenda. He is a survivor and seriously hot!

  135. herxanthikles says:

    Here’s another sand theory: if the cabin jumps around, maybe the sand is made when it materializes somewhere, like it burns the grass there or something. Maybe part of what makes Ben special is he knows how to find the cabin. Maybe Hurley too.

  136. spiralturtle says:

    [quote comment="181869"]Still…something is up with Faraday that we are only beginning to see. Especially if he had a “caretaker”.[/quote]

    I agree. Notice that when he first landed he was VERY unsteady on his feet, not just from landing but possibly from a lack of balance and/or weak leg muscles.

    Maybe they knew he would be able to walk when he landed?

  137. Dran says:

    I’m sorry, but I don’t follow the remarks about “Abaddon” or “Alpert” who or what are these????

  138. Tina says:

    Interesting anagrams for “Dean Moriarty”

    A Dreamt Irony

    Ordinary Mate

    Idea Martyr No.

  139. Tina says:

    I just looked at Dark UFO’s screen caps of the two bracelets and they really aren’t that similar. Elsa’s appears to have a silver wire wrap detail around the two ends and Naomi’s has oblong cut outs and engineered screws in hers. There are no visible cut-outs in Elsa’s bracelet, but rather what appears to be a linear indentation along the center.

    I think we’re stretching connections between the bracelets. Check it out: http://bp3.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/R7UYIeSXrYI/AAAAAAAAAWA/xU1Y5_B5MJE/s1600-h/4x03_braclets.jpg

  140. spiralturtle says:

    [quote comment="181926"]Nadia’s Iraqi
    Naomi’s Australian – looks aboriginal. They are not related.[/quote]

    Naomi looks nothing like an aboriginal. She’s a Briton of Indian descent.

  141. Miraks says:

    I stand by my theory from previous weeks that the reason Kate is not in jail is that Ben changed her past for her. I also still believe that Ben is the “he” she needs to get back to.

    Here are some new thoughts. Ben IS the good guy. It takes different people longer to figure it out, but eventually they do. Ben is protecting the island and it’s capabilities from being exploited for evil (i.e. control/ distruction of the world). Sayid is on board because he comes to understand this. That is why he is killing the BAD guys and working with Ben.

    Oh, at the end Ben injects Sayid NOT to do surgery on him, but to send him back to the island to be healed. (remember they had to inject Juliette before she traveled to the island?) Now that Sayid is a believer, he can Travel back and forth between the island and the real world, too. Eventually Jack will figure it out too and he will return to the island.

  142. Susan says:

    This is my first post on here but I’ve been reading everyones posts for the last 2 seasons. Y’all are so smart and catch things that go right over my head!

    A few observations:

    -Is the German Girl really in the Oceanic Golden Ticket Commercial? Does anyone have a link to that? And what is her name? Does it begin with an N also?

    -I don’t think that the RG on the bracelet stands for Regina because why would you break a name apart to initial it? My name is Susan and I never have initialized it as SS…. ya know?

    -As for Ben’s passport name “Dean Moriarty” – this s character from On The Road who he based on his crazy real life friend Neal Cassidy

    -When Miles is doing the “Ghost Buster” job at the Woman’s house in the flashback – who is the child in the photo and what was the relationship there? Was it Michael as a child?

    -Maybe Faraday was a cripple and they brought him with them to test the islands capabilities?

    -I agree that Kate is not one of the O6 and who was she referring to as “him” when she met Jack in the season 3 finale? Jack seemed to be aware of who “he” was so if she meant Ben then it could be confirmed that they are all working for him in the future?

    PS – love Syaid – I trust him more than anyone and given the chance to be protected by any one lost character on that island I would pick him…

  143. Tim says:

    Does anyone know how long Kate’s jail term was supposed to be?

  144. adriennez says:

    Another thing I just remembered…I think Elsa was contacted by her boss on a pager. Sayid says something about there being better technology out there. That reminded me of Ben saying something to the effect last season, about Jacob not liking technology(to Locke I think).

  145. Barb says:

    [quote comment="181974"][quote comment="181926"]Nadia’s Iraqi
    Naomi’s Australian – looks aboriginal. They are not related.[/quote]

    Naomi looks nothing like an aboriginal. She’s a Briton of Indian descent.[/quote]

    My point is they are not related – as was a theory a while back.

    But no one’s commented yet on my question way up there – when Sayid comes into the vet’s office, we don’t see Ben, just hear his voice. It sounded strangely like Christian Shepherd, not ben, and then with each word seemed to morph into ben’s voice and then we Ben. Did anyone hear that too.

    I also agree the cabin is beyond the ash but hidden because Locke brought all his followers, who are NOT supposed to see it.

  146. Barb says:

    ANother question:
    Why is it thought that the gal with Daniel (when he’s sitting in the chair watching the newscast of the 815 discovery) is his caretaker? Not a friends, sister, girlfriend, wife???

  147. Susan says:

    [quote comment="181992"]ANother question:
    Why is it thought that the gal with Daniel (when he’s sitting in the chair watching the newscast of the 815 discovery) is his caretaker? Not a friends, sister, girlfriend, wife???[/quote]

    Because when they replayed it yesterday the caption said she was a caretaker.

  148. Lost Addict says:

    [quote comment="181992"]ANother question:
    Why is it thought that the gal with Daniel (when he’s sitting in the chair watching the newscast of the 815 discovery) is his caretaker? Not a friends, sister, girlfriend, wife???[/quote]

    The episode that airs before the new one with the pop ups indicates this. It gives a lot of good clues the week after it airs.

  149. Tina says:

    [quote comment="181975"]
    Oh, at the end Ben injects Sayid NOT to do surgery on him, but to send him back to the island to be healed. (remember they had to inject Juliette before she traveled to the island?) Now that Sayid is a believer, he can Travel back and forth between the island and the real world, too. Eventually Jack will figure it out too and he will return to the island.[/quote]

    Excellent point!

  150. Desi says:

    [quote comment="181671"][quote comment="181661"]Great episode:
    -Ben, now hear me out-is the Good Guy. Why? He warn everyone, and I mean EVERYONE about not getting off the Island and people on the freighter were not come to rescue them. Ben is chosen, by whom? Who knows, but his name in the bible means: the “son of the right hand”, that is, “of happy list of the sons of Jacob. Judah Ch.49[/quote]

    I tend to agree that you could be right – that is exactly what I came up with after last weeks episode and posted it somehwere.

    Jesus sets at the right hand of the father and since Ben means son of right hand – it could be a reference to him being a christ-like figure – remember Jesus was often mistaken for evil and was tortured – if we follow carefully and look for clues we may just find out that he really is the good guy?[/quote]

    could be but also revert back to “man of faith, man of science” if you play the Biblical reference Locke is by far the most “Christlike” and his discussions and encounters with Ben can be paralled with Jesus’ encounters with the devil

  151. PJSander says:

    The comment that one of the freighter people made about the swingsets reminded me… do we have any idea what happened to the children that the Others kidnapped?

    Also, I have seen the freighter people referred to as “tots.” Please could someone explain that reference?

    I like the idea that Kate has to get back to “him” means Ben. That would explain the mild contempt in her voice when she said it.

    I remember hearing somewhere (the commentary on S1 DVD’s maybe?) that JJ/Lindeloff had the entire series mapped out before the pilot was shot. Given how many little hints for THIS season we saw in season one, I think this might really be true. If so, those guys are pure unadulterated geniuses!

    : ) P

  152. avalanche says:

    i am not going to pretend i understand relativity but it seems to be playing a large part in the show. it took the rocket 2hrs 45 mins and 3 secs to get to the island relative to the people on the island. it took 3 hrs 16 mins and 22 seconds according to “itself???” the clock in the rocket. it took thirty seconds relative to the people on the boat–remeber her counting down. so there is more to this than a 31 min delay.

    i know there have been experiments that a plane flying further from the earth has a clock showing a slower elapsed time than one moving on earth.

    so gravity and light affect time– but seriously i don’t know what could explain this–any physicists out there that can explain it? i’ve tried to read dumbed down laymen’s physics books but still don’t fully understand.

  153. Bill Bixby says:

    The time dilation clue in last night’s episode was very, very interesting. I’ve been trying to reconcile how Benjamin Linus could have grown up on the island if the time difference is 10:1. Based on the van, decor and technology in the various hatches, it seems like he may have arrived on the island as a kid (maybe 11 years old) in say 1960. In real world terms, that is 48 years ago, but on the island time would slow to only 4.8 years during the same period. So, how could he have grown from an 11 year old to a adult man that appears to be about 45 years old in only 4.8 years? One theory is that he spent a significant amount of time off of the island. This could be supported by all the passports, money from various countries, etc. Still this leaves quite a bit of time in his life to be explained. The future Benjamin seemed to be pretty comfortable in the “real world” with Sayid. This would also support the theory that he is a frequent traveler to the real world.

    I also never really understood why the “others” went to so much effort to keep the island a secret. Assuming the time discrepancy is true, it’s easy to believe that many people would be interested in living in a place that could slow aging by a factor of 10. Could you imagine being able to live 800 years instead of 80?

  154. Desi says:

    [quote comment="181682"][quote comment="181650"]Ok…New to this site but here is a couple theories based on what I have read…

    Desmond is the spy. It explains his “visions”. He leaves the island for very short amount of times in island time, but can be 10 times that amount of time outside the island. So he sees that Charlie dies, and comes back to the island with his “visions”. He saves Charlie for reasons we don’t understand yet.

    The time delay (about 10 times as long outside the island) explains why in the first episode of the season, the tv coverage talks about the “2004 crash of Oceanic flight 815″

    We assume that we know 4 of the Oceanic 6, but don’t assume…The only ones we know for sure who have said they are members of the Oceanic 6 are Sawyer and Sayid…Jack must be also because he is back as a doctor at his old hospital…Never did Kate say she was a member of the Oceanic 6. She may have gotten off the island unknown to anyone else.

    I also agree Michael is on the freighter, but I don’t agree he is Ben’s mole on the freighter…I think he is on there to come back and look for Walt…

    Again I am new to this board but have always been a fan of Lost. Let me know what you think.[/quote]
    I like your theory about Desmond, that would explain why we don’t see him for stretches at a time and if this time difference thing is about the island being on slower time, then that would explain his “visions” – how he knows things ahead of time – interesting – I hope you’re right about him, because he does seem to be a key player.

    Also interesting theory about Kate not being one of the oceanic 6 – she would want to stay under the radar due to her “wanted” past. She could be referring to Sawyer, or if, as some have suggested she is working for Ben, that could be who she is referring too – which would still leave us three spots open for the oceanic 6 at this point – I think.

    Ok – It’s late and I’m tired but this if fun trying figure everything out. We should all make a list of our predictions and then see how many of them are right! Oh wait, that is sort of what we are doing isn’t it :)[/quote]

    Look at the preview for next weeks episode- It specifically shows Kate getting out of a limo wearing sunglasses and being photographed and they said something about her “being one of the most recognzied faces of the year” or something along those lines, so I would think that she is one of the O6- also i agree with the theory that Claire and Aaron are the other two that get off the island because Charlie is willing to sacrifice himself bc of Desmond’s vision of the two of them “leaving the island in a helicopter”. Also- what happened to Alpert and all the Others? Are they all just chilling at the Temple waiting for ben or what? you’d think some of them would have gone looking for him by now…also why all the safety equipment (biohazard saftery things, gasmasks etc) that were in the steel box dropped from the plane that Faraday claimed to know nothing about? another purge perhaps?

  155. Susan says:

    No one has mentioned Miles’ ghost buster exorcism in his flash back. It looks like he was using a dust buster!

  156. Tina says:

    [quote comment="182011"]No one has mentioned Miles’ ghost buster exorcism in his flash back. It looks like he was using a dust buster![/quote]
    People have mentioned it, in the thread for that episode! Check out the Confirmed Dead Thread for that discussion.

  157. lostlaur says:

    Desmond is NOT Ben’s man on the boat.
    Nobody we see hanging out on the island can be. Notice how the freighties had to take a helicopter to get back? Means you can’t just do a doggy- paddle to get to wherever the boat is. And seeing as it took the ROCKET 30 minutes to get there- translate that to a canoe or something. It can’t be a high tech boat either because who would be able to slip away from the Losties with a boat without them noticing?

    ALSO- it may be easy for Desmond to get away from the Losties without them noticing- he’s always been a loner, but don’t you think the people on the boat would be all, “Hey, Desmond sure has been in the bathroom for a long time…” He wouldn’t be able to slip back and forth between the two and still keep his affiliation with Ben a secret. The person on the freighter stays on the freighter.

    Therefore, Ben’s man on the boat is either:
    A. An other who can leave their camp without a lot of questions from his/her peers
    B. Someone we don’t know & maybe don’t need to know beyond the fact that he’s feeding Ben info on the down-low -or-
    C. someone the Losties don’t miss- whether it’s the Micheal theory or they think the person is dead

  158. lostlaur says:

    I forgot to add

    D. Something totally unexpected from the writers that will blow all of our minds as per usual…

    : )

  159. tc909 says:

    [quote comment="181970"]Interesting anagrams for “Dean Moriarty”

    A Dreamt Irony

    Ordinary Mate

    Idea Martyr No.[/quote]

    Also:

    Marrano Deity

    Marrano is spanish translated literally to “pigs”.

    So Ben is god of the boars? J/K, I think we look for too much in these things sometime, or can see whatever we want if we look hard enough!

  160. Lost Addict says:

    [quote comment="182004"]The time dilation clue in last night’s episode was very, very interesting. I’ve been trying to reconcile how Benjamin Linus could have grown up on the island if the time difference is 10:1. Based on the van, decor and technology in the various hatches, it seems like he may have arrived on the island as a kid (maybe 11 years old) in say 1960. In real world terms, that is 48 years ago, but on the island time would slow to only 4.8 years during the same period. So, how could he have grown from an 11 year old to a adult man that appears to be about 45 years old in only 4.8 years? One theory is that he spent a significant amount of time off of the island. This could be supported by all the passports, money from various countries, etc. Still this leaves quite a bit of time in his life to be explained.

    Very good point. I thought I was the only one that noticed he arrived as a younger boy and is now much older, making you wonder that at least 30-40 years have passed, with Alpert not getting older. Also, has any one wondered if the young girl that young Ben was friends with and took a liking too when he was a boy was purged with Darma or if she will resurface somehow? Maybe not that important. Lastly, remind me again how the French woman came to be on the island (mother of the girl that Ben took as his daughter).

  161. Lost Addict says:

    [quote comment="182026"][quote comment="182004"]The time dilation clue in last night’s episode was very, very interesting. I’ve been trying to reconcile how Benjamin Linus could have grown up on the island if the time difference is 10:1. Based on the van, decor and technology in the various hatches, it seems like he may have arrived on the island as a kid (maybe 11 years old) in say 1960. In real world terms, that is 48 years ago, but on the island time would slow to only 4.8 years during the same period. So, how could he have grown from an 11 year old to a adult man that appears to be about 45 years old in only 4.8 years? One theory is that he spent a significant amount of time off of the island. This could be supported by all the passports, money from various countries, etc. Still this leaves quite a bit of time in his life to be explained.)[/quote]

    Very good point. I thought I was the only one that noticed he arrived as a younger boy and is now much older, making you wonder that at least 30-40 years have passed, with Alpert not getting older. Also, has any one wondered if the young girl that young Ben was friends with and took a liking too when he was a boy was purged with Darma or if she will resurface somehow? Maybe not that important. Lastly, remind me again how the French woman came to be on the island (mother of the girl that Ben took as his daughter).

    sorry for the dup posts

  162. RGS says:

    [quote comment="181975"]I stand by my theory from previous weeks that the reason Kate is not in jail is that Ben changed her past for her. I also still believe that Ben is the “he” she needs to get back to.

    Here are some new thoughts. Ben IS the good guy. It takes different people longer to figure it out, but eventually they do. Ben is protecting the island and it’s capabilities from being exploited for evil (i.e. control/ distruction of the world). Sayid is on board because he comes to understand this. That is why he is killing the BAD guys and working with Ben.

    Oh, at the end Ben injects Sayid NOT to do surgery on him, but to send him back to the island to be healed. (remember they had to inject Juliette before she traveled to the island?) Now that Sayid is a believer, he can Travel back and forth between the island and the real world, too. Eventually Jack will figure it out too and he will return to the island.[/quote]

    I can’t debate who the “he” is. However I will try the Ben is a “good” guy theory.

    Ben tells Sayid, “you want to help your friends don’t you?” If Ben is good, he can’t be referring to the Oceanic survivors, he’d have to be referring to some other group of people. Why you ask?

    The show is about the Oceanic survivors. We as viewers then hope that the survivors make it back to civilization. Now other hopes may have come up, but the main idea is to get them back. Locke is part of the Oceanic survivors.

    Is Locke a “good” guy? I would say yes. His actions are consistent with doing good. Helping a druggie stay off drugs, trying to save Oceanic survivors from the impending doom, etc.

    Ben shoots Locke leaving him for dead. End of Ben being good in my book. There is a laundry list of deeds done by Ben that, even under the guise of “protecting the island” still come off as fanatical. Kiinda like how terrorists apparently view their actions to be “good”, even though the world over believes them to be bad.

  163. Tina says:

    [quote comment="182024"]
    Also:

    Marrano Deity

    Marrano is spanish translated literally to “pigs”.

    So Ben is god of the boars? J/K, I think we look for too much in these things sometime, or can see whatever we want if we look hard enough![/quote]

    Fair enough. I just like anagrams ;)

  164. Lins says:

    Some observations –
    Kate is obviously one of the O6 based on the preview for next week, but that doesn’t mean she can’t work for Ben. Obviously we know Sayid is an O6, but he is helping Ben, why not Kate?
    I don’t think we know Ben’s man on the boat, that would be too easy.
    It was suspiscious how the heli pilot told Daniel to hang up on Minkowski and the weird look that those two gave each other when Des pressed them about Penny, something’s up there?
    It will be interesting to see how Kate ends up being rescued and Hurley too…
    I think Locke was really confused about not being able to see the cabin, couldn’t tell from Ben’s expression what he was thinking, but it was probably because so many people were around, not sure what he thought everyone would be able to see the cabin, that would lead to a lot of questions from the rest of the group.
    Sayid didn’t look like he recognized the bracelet from Naomi, but he did seem interested in it, I think it will play a part later
    I really thought it was Christian Shepherd in the vet at the end, the voice did seem to morph into Ben’s…and on the phone earlier in the ep it sounded more like Jacob
    I love LOST!

  165. Agent68 says:

    Here are my thoughts:

    Scientists (probably Dharma) working on the islend, discovered how to do two things: time travel, and teleportation. Either they invented machinery to do these things, or have discovered a naturally-occurring time/space warp near the island, and figured out how to exploit it successfully.

    The time travel possibilities have been well explored on this forum. Examples include: the presence of the both the “Black Rock” and 4-toed statue, the big-band music heard on the radio, the whole Desmond thing, the rocket, the old lady in the antique shop, etc.

    As for teleportation, I believe this would explain a few things. First, how a polar bear was found in the Tunisian desert with a Dharma tag. Second, how Ben is able to leave the island to make use of his business suits, passports, and currency. Third, how Jacob’s hut is there one minute, gone the next, and has seemingly been in two different places. Fourth, how Locke’s dad was brought to the island. Fifth, how the Black Rock actually ended up in the interior of the island. I bet if I thought about it, I could think of other examples.

    In any case, Ben understands that if these capabilites were to fall into the wrong hands, human civilation could be utterly destroyed. In fact, with time travel, paradoxes could be created that could potentially destroy the world/universe/etc. Really bad things, to be sure.

    I believe Ben is honestly acting in the best interests of humanity, by trying to keeping these capabilities out of the hands of evil people who would exploit it. He has done horrible things along the way, certainly. But I suspect he was acting out of a larger, nobler purpose.

    Again, I believe Dharma discovered or created these technologies. Ben and Alpert surmised that they would be used for evil, and decided to purge the Dharma people and “hide” the island. However, there are off-island Dharma people too, especially its financiers (perhaps including Mr. Widmore & Mr. Paek), and they are now determined to find Ben. Both to kill him for what he’s done, and also to regain access to the island and its time/space warp capabilities. They will do whatever is necessary to obtain it, and Ben knows it, so he responds in kind to thwart these “evil” people.

    The “evil” people arranged for 815 to crash on the island, starting by substituting their own pilot. Their aim was to somehow get Ben and the island out of hiding, so they can gain control of it. Kelvin was part of this conspiracy, choosing carefully the time in which to leave the hatch, and knowing Desmond would follow and fail to press the button – thus causing the crash. I am 100% convinced the plane crash was arranged. Not too much a stretch at this point, because we’ve seen evidence that it is now being covered up (“Confirmed Dead”).

    So that’s it for now. I have more theories, details, and supporting evidence, but I thought I’d start by tossing these out there for consideration.

  166. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182028"][quote comment="181975"]I stand by my theory from previous weeks that the reason Kate is not in jail is that Ben changed her past for her. I also still believe that Ben is the “he” she needs to get back to.

    Here are some new thoughts. Ben IS the good guy. It takes different people longer to figure it out, but eventually they do. Ben is protecting the island and it’s capabilities from being exploited for evil (i.e. control/ distruction of the world). Sayid is on board because he comes to understand this. That is why he is killing the BAD guys and working with Ben.

    Oh, at the end Ben injects Sayid NOT to do surgery on him, but to send him back to the island to be healed. (remember they had to inject Juliette before she traveled to the island?) Now that Sayid is a believer, he can Travel back and forth between the island and the real world, too. Eventually Jack will figure it out too and he will return to the island.[/quote]

    I can’t debate who the “he” is. However I will try the Ben is a “good” guy theory.

    Ben tells Sayid, “you want to help your friends don’t you?” If Ben is good, he can’t be referring to the Oceanic survivors, he’d have to be referring to some other group of people. Why you ask?

    The show is about the Oceanic survivors. We as viewers then hope that the survivors make it back to civilization. Now other hopes may have come up, but the main idea is to get them back. Locke is part of the Oceanic survivors.

    Is Locke a “good” guy? I would say yes. His actions are consistent with doing good. Helping a druggie stay off drugs, trying to save Oceanic survivors from the impending doom, etc.

    Ben shoots Locke leaving him for dead. End of Ben being good in my book. There is a laundry list of deeds done by Ben that, even under the guise of “protecting the island” still come off as fanatical. Kiinda like how terrorists apparently view their actions to be “good”, even though the world over believes them to be bad.[/quote]

    It would seem to me that only “The Others” go through the not aging process, or at a maximum only Richard. Ben’s father also aged quite a bit while on the Island, which would be inconsistent with the theory that aging is slowed.

  167. Sugaree423 says:

    FYI – Richard Alpert (the “other” who doesn’t age) is also the name of Ram Dass, author or Be Here Now, and conductor of LSD tests with Timothy Leary at Harvard in the 60s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Dass

  168. ozzie1p says:

    Just wondering if anyone noticed that the Season 4 poster shows a break in the clouds and subtle light shining down on the left 6. Could it be the Oceanic 6? Holds true so far. Can’t tell who the guy on the far left is though.

  169. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="182028"]Ben shoots Locke leaving him for dead. End of Ben being good in my book. There is a laundry list of deeds done by Ben that, even under the guise of “protecting the island” still come off as fanatical. Kiinda like how terrorists apparently view their actions to be “good”, even though the world over believes them to be bad.[/quote]

    But, Locke kills Naomi, Jack pulls the trigger on Locke, … Overall, the 815 survivors have still killed more people than the Others.

  170. Enik says:

    Jacob’s cabin is not moving! The island is moving through space and time and the cabin is at the center of the universe.
    Locke hasn’t completely lost touch with the island, rather it is the island that’s in a state of flux and needs to protect itself. The cabin and the island were not in the same time when Locke’s group approached the sought-after location. Faraday’s experiment exposed an anomaly, not merely a specific time differential.

  171. lostntyme says:

    Agent68, your comments make great points and I totally agree with you. Putting my mind at ease until next week. This show is getting better every week!

  172. imaginary says:

    [quote comment="181560"]who r the oceanic 6??
    Of course we know Jack, Kate, hurley, Sayid
    My theory on the other two.
    Last scene in last season finale. Kate says to Jack, “I have to get back to him, you know how he gets.” SAWYER
    flash-forward last finale, the funeral in an african-american neighborhood, Ben spy on the Boat (MICHAEL). My theory.[/quote]

    the funeral director asked “freinds or FAMILY” though?

  173. Mike L says:

    My guess since Sayid is so interested in the bracelets, the initials R.G. stands for “Republican Guard”.

    The 31 minute delay indicates things on the island move slower or time is slower on the island than the outside world. It explains why Walt appears taller because he’s grown up in the real world already.

    Jack says he hasn’t watched baseball in a year. I was expecting Frank to say something in the lines of “A year? It’s been 2 years” but then that would have spoiled everything and made it too easy.

  174. PJSander says:

    The eye of Jacob… some say Christian Shepherd, some say Locke, some say Ben… but look at these two images:

    http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RdQui9C3nSI/AAAAAAAABDA/RPGR2zn0j50/s1600-h/01.jpg

    and

    http://bp3.blogger.com/_n3eH1jI8AZ8/R6KXy3XEgXI/AAAAAAAACA8/cc_K-J-AafM/s1600-h/jacob-4×01.gif

    Maybe the same eye?

    : ) P

  175. Courtney says:

    [quote comment="181874"]Just a few observations and thoughts:
    Sayid: The first man he kills is on a golf course in South Africa… The man did not recognize Sayid but the look of fear on his face after hearing Sayid’s name was unmistakable.
    [/quote]

    Maybe I heard this wrong, but I thought the man asked Sayid how he liked the Seychelles? I got the impression that’s where they were. The Seychelles are a group of islands in the Indian Ocean, northeast of Madagascar.

  176. Desi says:

    Also- for all of you who are familiar with the chronicles of narnia- TONS Of references to CS Lewis besides Charlotte (staples lewis) name. when sayid finds ben’s secret room- very similiar to the children’s first encounter with the Wardrobe- in Narnia the childrens age is different from their real age during WW2. THis does explain why ben has aged (he leaves the island frequently) and why ALpert hasnt (he never leaves). And of course why Walt has indeed grown up (he does leave the island and comes back). Plus all the Biblical references of the struggles of Good vs. evil in both Lost and Narnia- oh and the Ash was already there (forgot who mentioned it) Locke didn’t leave it as a “bread crumble trail”. The other’s couldnt see Jacob’s cabin bc they aren’t “true Believers”.

  177. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182036"]Here are my thoughts:

    Scientists (probably Dharma) working on the islend, discovered how to do two things: time travel, and teleportation. Either they invented machinery to do these things, or have discovered a naturally-occurring time/space warp near the island, and figured out how to exploit it successfully.

    The time travel possibilities have been well explored on this forum. Examples include: the presence of the both the “Black Rock” and 4-toed statue, the big-band music heard on the radio, the whole Desmond thing, the rocket, the old lady in the antique shop, etc.

    As for teleportation, I believe this would explain a few things. First, how a polar bear was found in the Tunisian desert with a Dharma tag. Second, how Ben is able to leave the island to make use of his business suits, passports, and currency. Third, how Jacob’s hut is there one minute, gone the next, and has seemingly been in two different places. Fourth, how Locke’s dad was brought to the island. Fifth, how the Black Rock actually ended up in the interior of the island. I bet if I thought about it, I could think of other examples.

    In any case, Ben understands that if these capabilites were to fall into the wrong hands, human civilation could be utterly destroyed. In fact, with time travel, paradoxes could be created that could potentially destroy the world/universe/etc. Really bad things, to be sure.

    I believe Ben is honestly acting in the best interests of humanity, by trying to keeping these capabilities out of the hands of evil people who would exploit it. He has done horrible things along the way, certainly. But I suspect he was acting out of a larger, nobler purpose.

    Again, I believe Dharma discovered or created these technologies. Ben and Alpert surmised that they would be used for evil, and decided to purge the Dharma people and “hide” the island. However, there are off-island Dharma people too, especially its financiers (perhaps including Mr. Widmore & Mr. Paek), and they are now determined to find Ben. Both to kill him for what he’s done, and also to regain access to the island and its time/space warp capabilities. They will do whatever is necessary to obtain it, and Ben knows it, so he responds in kind to thwart these “evil” people.

    The “evil” people arranged for 815 to crash on the island, starting by substituting their own pilot. Their aim was to somehow get Ben and the island out of hiding, so they can gain control of it. Kelvin was part of this conspiracy, choosing carefully the time in which to leave the hatch, and knowing Desmond would follow and fail to press the button – thus causing the crash. I am 100% convinced the plane crash was arranged. Not too much a stretch at this point, because we’ve seen evidence that it is now being covered up (“Confirmed Dead”).

    So that’s it for now. I have more theories, details, and supporting evidence, but I thought I’d start by tossing these out there for consideration.[/quote]

    This is a pretty well thought out theory, and I can buy parts of it, and ultimately I can’t refute any of it, I will however play Benjamin Linus’ Advocate (devil’s advocate because he is evil…oh yes, he is evil).

    Time travel, teleportation. I won’t go into the specifics of this idea because the nuances can be changed. However, if we fully accept and go down this path, there is nothing that could refute the notion that the Others are actually aliens taking human form and the island itself is a space ship here to observe.

    No I don’t believe that, but I do believe it is within the realm of the pandora’s box of possibilities. Rather than go down that path because I don’t have enough support I will try to address the Ben is good theory. (That’s going to be my calling card for today).

    So your idea is that Ben is sort of like a Jack Bauer agent. Where the end justifies the means. One of my issues with that is we have not seen any redeeming qualities in Ben. I can’t say that the writer’s won’t all of a sudden start painting Ben as a good guy, stranger things have happened, but to me, for sanity’s sake, one must continue to view Ben as bad.

    If he needs to protect the island, why would Jacob say to Locke, “Help Me?”

    If he needs to protect the island, why is systematically going down the list of survivors and kidnapping them, as opposed to just killing them for the greater good?

    If he needs to protect the island why does he kidnap children?

    If he needs to protect the island, why is he brainwashing people as opposed to just putting them out in the world knowing they can’t be found, and no one would believe a crazy person?

    If he needs to protect the island why does he need any of the survivors at all, aside from a surgeon.

  178. vavila says:

    Maybe I heard this wrong, but I thought the man asked Sayid how he liked the Seychelles? I got the impression that’s where they were. The Seychelles are a group of islands in the Indian Ocean, northeast of Madagascar.[/quote]

    They were in Seychelles island, you are right.

  179. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182042"][quote comment="182028"]Ben shoots Locke leaving him for dead. End of Ben being good in my book. There is a laundry list of deeds done by Ben that, even under the guise of “protecting the island” still come off as fanatical. Kiinda like how terrorists apparently view their actions to be “good”, even though the world over believes them to be bad.[/quote]

    But, Locke kills Naomi, Jack pulls the trigger on Locke, … Overall, the 815 survivors have still killed more people than the Others.[/quote]

    While that has happened, we as viewers at least know where Locke is coming from, as well as Jack. There is nothing that has been given to us to suggest that Ben is good, he is constantly at odds with the Oceanic survivors.

  180. nakira says:

    Sayid is from Iraq and Naveen Andrews is British of Indian descent so actors can portray other ethnicities. We knew Naomi was knowledgable about Manchester in England and her accent is British but other than that we don’t know her background.

    Susan- As far as Faraday being a “cripple” – (so not PC) the caretaker could have been for social/psychological help since we have seen he’s very intelligent yet his communication skills are somewhat awkward with the Losties or he could be hindered by his thinking processes and has a disability.

  181. nakira says:

    I heard Seychelles as well.

  182. vavila says:

    [quote comment="182036"]If he needs to protect the island, why would Jacob say to Locke, “Help Me?”

    If he needs to protect the island, why is systematically going down the list of survivors and kidnapping them, as opposed to just killing them for the greater good?

    If he needs to protect the island why does he kidnap children?

    If he needs to protect the island, why is he brainwashing people as opposed to just putting them out in the world knowing they can’t be found, and no one would believe a crazy person?

    If he needs to protect the island why does he need any of the survivors at all, aside from a surgeon.[/quote]

    i don’t have the answers, but:
    Jacob could ask Locke for help knowing that the threat to the island is increasing and that Ben will need help (maybe so that Locke can lead on the island since our losties trust him and Ben can concentrate on protecting it from the outside world -i assume by killing of remaining Dharma people?)

    Ben didn’t just kill losties because he knew that some of them could be used for the ‘island good’ (maybe he even shot Locke to see if he is really jacob’s chosen one, which he is since he survived the shot)

    I don’t know why exactly Ben needs losties (even if to help protect the island then from who?), but it is very possible that he does need some of them and the crash was no coincidence…

  183. Courtney says:

    [quote comment="181974"][quote comment="181926"]Nadia’s Iraqi
    Naomi’s Australian – looks aboriginal. They are not related.[/quote]

    Naomi looks nothing like an aboriginal. She’s a Briton of Indian descent.[/quote]
    Marsha Thomason’s profile on Wikipedia says she was born to a British father and a Jamaican mother.

  184. Scott says:

    [quote comment="182054"]… THis does explain why ben has aged (he leaves the island frequently) and why ALpert hasnt (he never leaves)….[/quote]

    Alpert was off the island recruiting Juliet.

    Another topic, when Jack says “We have to go BACK”, could be another time reference.

  185. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="182060"]
    Susan- As far as Faraday being a “cripple” – (so not PC) the caretaker could have been for social/psychological help since we have seen he’s very intelligent yet his communication skills are somewhat awkward with the Losties or he could be hindered by his thinking processes and has a disability.[/quote]
    I was thinking something along the same lines. Sort of like the main character in “A Beautiful Mind”.

  186. lost chicka says:

    i’m nowhere near done reading all these comments. i’ve only gotten to 105 but need to post before i have to many things to say.

    cat, #77: when he said that, i’m thinking “yeah, cuz you know that if they’re there already ben and sawyer will be on pushing eachother on the swings and hurley and locke will be playing football.”

    PJSander #98: – before we saw ben’s face i thought it was christian. i thought it kinda sounded like him. i did NOT think it was ben. that was a shocker. everybody on the island must know how to fix up gun shot wounds for sayid (ben, mikhail, don’t know anybody else….)
    – i do not think naomi is nadia’s sister. nadia wasn’t black. “tell my sister i love her” WAS code. why would naomi want nadia’s bracelet anywhoo? unless they’re just going for everybody’s off island loves. in that case it would only be a matter of time that we find something of sara’s (jacks ex) or cassidy’s (sawyer’s one time love).
    – kate actually did look really pretty this episode with her disgusting looking tank (and i’m not be sarcastic. she made me want to go out and get a mudcaked tank!)

    bubbleburster #104: good name for yourself. thanks for bursting my bubble mr./mrs. bubbleburster! but yes, i have no clue where anybody is getting the idea that sayid or des could in anyway possiblly be ben’s man ON the boat. they’ve been ON the island! unless of course ben ment des’s itty bitty boat. and i like my anti heroes. so, uh.

    and a few more thoughts:

    i think that the other 2 people who get off the island (assuming kate is one of the oceanic 6, which i think she is) are sun and jin. if ben is manipulating the O6 off the island and is using sayid to be a head hunter, why not jin too? jin’s done it before for his father in law so he could be with sun, why wouldn’t he do it again to keep sun and their baby safe???

    i love desmond! i don’t know how you cannot. he’s so sweet and he has an awesome accent!!!! talking to, or spending time with, or helping a person of the opposite sex doesn’t mean you’re gonna make a move on that person! there’s only so many people on the damn island to talk to or hang out with!!!

    i think hurley was in on the whole thing just because he thought it was what was best. locke probably used charlie’s sacrifce as why he should do it.

    i think sawyer will stay on the island and “play house” in the barracks. i mean, unless the electricity stops….

    is the island just in a different time zone? or is it really a different time?

    oh, since people’ve been mentioning next weeks comecials i just have to say this: haha jaters! skaters win! :P (i know, i know, imature. but it’s so fun!)

  187. renato says:

    ozzie1p
    Comment 168, posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Just wondering if anyone noticed that the Season 4 poster shows a break in the clouds and subtle light shining down on the left 6. Could it be the Oceanic 6? Holds true so far. Can’t tell who the guy on the far left is though.

    ———–

    Hey first time writer but heres my 2 cents, on the lost season 4 promo poster (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Lost_season_4_poster.jpg) the light is shown on 6 people, jack, kate, sayid, ben, hurley and the last one is claire, so far weve seen all 5 with the exception of claire and in the water it shows the number 6 , i know people have gone through this already but that means in this whole season those 6 people will be the only ones revealed in this season , the six in the light, and out of those 6 only 5 of them were actually on flight 815 so i wonder who will be the last one…

  188. Lost Addict says:

    I think the other comments have been very true, as to the “Oceanic6″ may be a ploy by the writers to throw us off into thinking only 6 people make it off the island, when it fact, it may be that with more of a twist/symbolic meaning, around the 6….

  189. Barb says:

    Isn’t that Ben on the far right in that promo picture?

  190. Suze says:

    What happened the last time Sayid made a decision with his heart and not his gun? Is this referring to Nadia? Or the girl that died on the island that he was in love with – can’t remember her name (blond, on the plane with her brother?)

  191. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="181918"]

    I think that even though Ben had all those passports & money, he hasn’t been off the island recently. If he did couldn’t he have figured out a way to keep the freighties away ahead of time? That didn’t involve him being turned into hamburger meat by Sawyer & Jack…

    [/quote]

    Ben hasn’t been off the island lately because Locke blew up the sub. He is building a runway though.

  192. Missy says:

    [quote comment="181907"]Bubbleburster–Phenomenal postings, I agree with you ALMOST completely with everything you said. First, did the other posters not hear when Ben said to Sayid on the Vet’s table that you need to keep doing what I tell you to or your friends will get hurt? So Sayid is definitely biding time until he can find a way to get back to the island and help those that were left behind by doing Ben’s dirty work.
    Secondly, Sayid and Desmond are not on the boat, that is obvious but other posters are in their own world apparently.
    And lastly, Daniel would not have been brought to the island to help capture/kill/confront Ben if he were paralyzed.
    The only part I somewhat disagree with is when the German woman is on the phone: she is keeping a pretty close eye on Sayid and earlier he has said he understands no German so she probably feels comfortable talking to her boss without Sayid understanding. Then he breaks the mirror so she can’t see him reach for the gun and gives himself just enough time to shoot her.
    One last note- Ben is bad. No ifs ands or buts about it. He has done too many deceptive and manipulative things to be anything but bad. From the beginning of the Others, he has a long list of criminal acts starting with the baby stealing and moving on to forcing Michael to kidnap (and ultimately kill) some of the Losties.[/quote]

    And don’t forget the purge…that he started planning at a tender pre-teen age.

  193. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182004"] Assuming the time discrepancy is true, it’s easy to believe that many people would be interested in living in a place that could slow aging by a factor of 10. Could you imagine being able to live 800 years instead of 80?[/quote]
    [quote comment="181918"]

    If you were on the island you would still think you had lived only 80 years. The time difference is relative, they don’t have longer lives, just slower.

    I think that even though Ben had all those passports & money, he hasn’t been off the island recently. If he did couldn’t he have figured out a way to keep the freighties away ahead of time? That didn’t involve him being turned into hamburger meat by Sawyer & Jack…

    [/quote]

    Ben hasn’t been off the island lately because Locke blew up the sub. He is building a runway though.

  194. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    Something I didn’t consider until I read something above: The stop watches may not have been in real time, they show 2:45 and 3:16 for a 31 minute difference. Ok, I agree with that. But maybe they both were set at zero when the rocket was launched and it took 2 hours and 45 minutes for the rocket to get there but the other watch showed it took 3 hours and 16 minutes, or vice versa. I didn’t know which watch was on the rocket and which one was on the island. Maybe the rocket wasn’t shot from the freighter? I don’t know what any of this means but it makes me wonder. I’m still very happily confused.

  195. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    But wait, they were on the phone together waiting for it to get there. It could have meant 2 minutes and 45 seconds and 3 minutes and 16 seconds. That’s only a 31 second difference. Still very confused….

  196. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    I really do pay very close attention when the show is on. I mean, nobody is allowed to talk during the show but me. And I can’t even tell when my wife walks in the room and then leaves. It’s like sports when Lost is on. What I have to do is watch each ep 3 or 4 times to get everything understood….sort of.

  197. Missy says:

    [quote comment="181927"]Wow, wow wow! Great comments Shooter, tc909, lostchicka, Paul. Its funny how people get similar ideas.

    Love Hurley’s reference to Miles…”Great, they sent us another Sawyer”. I was thinking same thing, just Sawyer in Asian guy form and not as hot. Sawyer and Kate hook up again in next episode and in Ben’s room, that’s a little gross. Maybe Ben helps Kate get a new identity since he’s good at it and also strikes a deal with Sawyer, another member of the O6.

    Thanks you science people for breaking down the math and time differnce. I was trying to remember my physics class last night to see the difference but I didn’t know the average rate of a missle/rocket like that. With the time/space difference – ripple in time?, can’t think of the book I read in 6th grade trying to remember. Now it makes sense the women dying by being pregnant, the body is good at adapting, but we need 40 weeks gestation and if the timing is off, such as too fast/slow the body may not be able to handle it and ergo miscarriages/death.

    Lovin LOST[/quote]

    Totally think you’ve hit the nail on the head with the pregnancy problems on the island.

    As for Kate – I love her and Sawyer together – but I still have in the back of my mind that breakfast that she had with Ben before they put her in a cage. Like there was something that they had not revealed to us. I wonder what that could be???

  198. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182054"]Also- for all of you who are familiar with the chronicles of narnia- TONS Of references to CS Lewis besides Charlotte (staples lewis) name. when sayid finds ben’s secret room- very similiar to the children’s first encounter with the Wardrobe- in Narnia the childrens age is different from their real age during WW2. THis does explain why ben has aged (he leaves the island frequently) and why ALpert hasnt (he never leaves). And of course why Walt has indeed grown up (he does leave the island and comes back). Plus all the Biblical references of the struggles of Good vs. evil in both Lost and Narnia- oh and the Ash was already there (forgot who mentioned it) Locke didn’t leave it as a “bread crumble trail”. The other’s couldnt see Jacob’s cabin bc they aren’t “true Believers”.[/quote]

    Alpert leaves the island. We saw him recrute Juliette.

  199. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="182115"]I really do pay very close attention when the show is on. I mean, nobody is allowed to talk during the show but me. And I can’t even tell when my wife walks in the room and then leaves. It’s like sports when Lost is on. What I have to do is watch each ep 3 or 4 times to get everything understood….sort of.[/quote]
    LOL! Exactly!! Last night my wife walked in the room, I kept my eyes glued to the TV, and she said, “I could be naked right now and you wouldn’t even care”. I just kept watching the TV….

  200. barbara says:

    [quote comment="181997"][quote comment="181671"][quote comment="181661"]Great episode:
    -Ben, now hear me out-is the Good Guy. Why? He warn everyone, and I mean EVERYONE about not getting off the Island and people on the freighter were not come to rescue them. Ben is chosen, by whom? Who knows, but his name in the bible means: the “son of the right hand”, that is, “of happy list of the sons of Jacob. Judah Ch.49[/quote]

    I tend to agree that you could be right – that is exactly what I came up with after last weeks episode and posted it somehwere.

    Jesus sets at the right hand of the father and since Ben means son of right hand – it could be a reference to him being a christ-like figure – remember Jesus was often mistaken for evil and was tortured – if we follow carefully and look for clues we may just find out that he really is the good guy?[/quote]

    could be but also revert back to “man of faith, man of science” if you play the Biblical reference Locke is by far the most “Christlike” and his discussions and encounters with Ben can be paralled with Jesus’ encounters with the devil[/quote]
    I keep looking up all of the “biblical” names…Most of the big characters have biblical names…James (Sawyer), John $ Jack are also all derived from JACOB…as far as the bad guy goes…Abbadon means “anti-Christ” doer of destruction>>.interestng!

  201. Toeknee says:

    The scene with Sayid on the helicopter reminded me of Platoon. I was expecting them to show Sayid looking down on the island, and then show something like Ben chasing Locke in the jungle and shooting him.

  202. Circus Mom says:

    Someone mentioned that the times on the stopwatches are cooridinates and that they are somewhere outside of Nigeria. Isn’t that where the plane with Eko’s brother dissaapered.

  203. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    [quote comment="182120"][quote comment="182115"]I really do pay very close attention when the show is on. I mean, nobody is allowed to talk during the show but me. And I can’t even tell when my wife walks in the room and then leaves. It’s like sports when Lost is on. What I have to do is watch each ep 3 or 4 times to get everything understood….sort of.[/quote]
    LOL! Exactly!! Last night my wife walked in the room, I kept my eyes glued to the TV, and she said, “I could be naked right now and you wouldn’t even care”. I just kept watching the TV….[/quote]
    My wife did walk in naked….or so I’m told. ; )

  204. dukewm says:

    WOW ! When and under what circumstances will Ben get to Berlin and start using Sayid to “execute” his hit list ?

    I’ll bet NOBODY saw that coming.

  205. Rick says:

    Here’s a theory. The island and it’s properties are morally neutral. It is a scientific oddity, but not the anthropomorphic being some have posited. Setting aside for a moment the specificities of the physics of the island, here is what I see as the greater story arc.

    Dharma, funded by an emormously wealth egomanaic who thinks he needs to save the world by creating a new Noah’s ark scenario, is using the island for scientific research. The island itself was not special prior to Dharma. Dharma artificially creates the time/space warping characteristics on the island, Jacob, etc.

    Ben comes along and over the course of his life on the island grows jaded with it’s supposed mission. He believes the island is being misused and wants to use it for his own, “benevolent” purposes. Given his own life tragedy, he wants to use the island to save people who have seen unfair, tragic events in their own lives – a swindled parent leading to a life of revenge, a father operating drunk and disgracing the family name, an unwanted pregnancy, a misled solider who regrets his past, a emotionally abandoned child unable to cope with life, etc. Ben wants to use the island to give these people a second chance at a “fair” life. Ben begins by purging the island who do not deserve this chance.

    After the purge, the original Dharma button pusher who kept the island functioning could not be trusted. Ben felt compelled to replace him and thus “recruited” Desmond to serve his button pushing mission. He was perhaps Ben’s first rescuee from the world at large. Desmond’s eventual failure to push the button in time, leading to the crash of 815, was in some way caused by Ben. The crash was Ben’s large scale attempt to accomplish this same good end on a grander scale. He had used Desmond to get everybody together on the island much more efficiently than the Juliet style recruitment.

    As people leave the island and try to reintegrate, they slowly realize the opportunity they were given. Unfortunately, Ben himself never learned to trust anybody, and thus is forced to only achieve his benevolent goals in seemingly malicious ways.

    Now Dharma wants their island back, and it’s a war between them and Ben (and his growing army) to “save” the island. I think the series will end with the island being abandoned (if not destroyed), uncontrolled by any person(s), ready for the next user to come along.

  206. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="182000"]The comment that one of the freighter people made about the swingsets reminded me… do we have any idea what happened to the children that the Others kidnapped?

    Also, I have seen the freighter people referred to as “tots.” Please could someone explain that reference?
    P[/quote]
    I believe someone came up with the term “freighter tots” because it rhymes with “tater tots”, but I’m not 100% sure on that. As far as I know, this is the only board that uses that term.

    If you’re talking about the children from the tail section that the Others kidnapped in season 2, we saw them a couple times in season 3. They’re part of the Others’ community now, apparently well-kept.

  207. Paul says:

    My top 5 wishes for Season 4

    1. Claire gets naked – DUH!!
    2. Claire gets naked- LOL
    3. Jack + Kate = 1 happy viewer
    4. Smoke monster eats Juliet
    5. Driveshaft makes Hurley their new vocalist
    “You dudes all everybody!!”

  208. Toeknee says:

    It was interesting how Sawyer gave Kate the “Why do you want to get off the island?” speech, after last week’s episode where Ben gave Sawyer basically the same speech.

  209. Bill Bixby says:

    lostlaur wrote:

    If you were on the island you would still think you had lived only 80 years. The time difference is relative, they don’t have longer lives, just slower.

    Yes it is relative. My point was from the perspective of a person on the island heading back to the real world. More time would appear to have gone by in the real world relative to the island.

  210. Toeknee says:

    I can’t make sense of any of these time travel/time differential theories, but here’s a thought that crossed my mind. In the conversation Jack and Frank had about the Red Sox, Jack asks if the Red Sox really won the world series, and he’s talking about the 2004 world series. Frank says something like that’s a sore subject because he’s a Yankee fan. But I wonder if Frank thought Jack was talking about the 2007 World Series? In other words, off the island, it’s late 2007, not late 2004. It may not make sense with all of the other pieces of the puzzle, and I’m not sure how it would fit in with any of the time travel theories. Just throwing it out there.

  211. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="181980"]Does anyone know how long Kate’s jail term was supposed to be?[/quote]

    a long time.

  212. lost chicka says:

    ok, only on 165.

    Sawyer’s Evil Twin #111: or maybe it had something to do with the fact that he just got shot and was probably in a lot of pain. or maybe he’s just been killing everybody with those bracelets and now means squat.

    Ghostrider #112: what am i supposed to see when i look up holmium?

    Sean T. Collins #119: if you don’t want spoilers don’t read the thread for the next ep! It’s not like seeing a pic will ruin your life either.

    Nakira #123: now i’m just hurt by that about shannon and sayid. the air port was when she was a spoiled rich brat, on the island she morphed into a nice person. she was so good for him and he was sooo good for her! and yeah hurley’s reference to miles “great they sent us another sawyer” i was thinking basically the same thing as you, only miles is more hostile, hateful, and has absolutly no heart.

    Why did Frank not want Daniel to talk to Minkowski???

    How would sayid, if as one of the O6 members is famous, be able to go around and shoot people dead that are on jacob’s list?????

    i think the list is jacob’s (which could be why sayid wouldn’t mention his employer. who would want to explain that one to miss german?) and the people on it to be killed are people who are a problem to the island and/or jacob. so abaddon could be on the list along with his people, dharma. i totally buy into kate killing for ben and i think jin could be off the island too as he was killing people before island too. i think the people that work for ben and jacob can go to and from the island and see their friends. jack doesn’t work for ben so he doesn’t know what’s happening on the island.

    crazy theory here on naomi’s bracelet: n stood for naomi and came from her bf/fiance/husband whatever. i know who would’ve thought of that one……but then why would miss german have the bracelet too? idk, i’m disprooving my own theory. damn lost high! i think has a romantic sayid was interested. or maybe he thought the bracelet was some awesome high tech thing he could work with.

    Tim #129: i’m not a scientist, not gonna claim to be i hate science. but alaska is on earth and yet it’s sunlight almost all day 1/2 the year and practically total darkness 1/2 the year. so how does that work? i’m so glad there are like 50 scientists on here.

    miraks #141: yes, everyone sooner or later realizes ben is good. i’ve known it for a long time. he’s doing the right thing the wrong way, or the way it has to be done, depending on how you look at that. i think it’s a bit of both. and that’s a cool theory on why sayid is injected.

    barb: i agree. it was christian’s a voice then slowly turned into ben’s when we see him. what does that mean? he’s possesed by jacob?

    PJSander: we call them freighter tots cuz it sounds like tator tots (or at least i do) and it’s fun.

  213. myleee says:

    [quote comment="181955"]I didn’t see this mentioned yet – sorry if I missed it.

    Since Naomi arrived on the island last season, there has been lots of speculation as to who hired her, and one of the theories (which I think is possible) is that it was Penny’s dad. In this episode, when Desmond asked Frank and Daniel why Naomi had the picture of him and Penny, he mentioned her full name (Penelope Widmore), and then Frank and Daniel sort of looked at each other as if that meant something to them. That makes me think even moreso that Penny’s dad is involved in this. How or why? I don’t know that…..[/quote]

    my theory is that it was Penny’s dad..ORIGINALLY. Naomi’s boss somehow found out that Penny is doing all she can to find Desmond and Naomi now has 2 reasons why she has to go the island. Naomi’s boss wants Ben, while Penny wants Desmond. Naomi’s probably gonna get paid up the nose while 2 separate teams having 2 separate goals go looking for the island. the 3 others in helicopter, and probably those on the freighter, know of both stories, and is just going along for money and/or other purposes.

  214. LJ says:

    - ripple in time?, can’t think of the book I read in 6th grade trying to remember.

    “A Wrinkle in Time” written by Madeleine L’Engle

  215. Val says:

    I think that whoever is in the casket is a man; I paused my tv when Jack is looking at the article, right before he goes in to the funeral home, and you can make out “Man found in Apartment,” as the headline. I tried despartely to see a name, but to no avail.

    [quote comment="181725"]I think the writers said that the person in the casket is someone we already knew & we hadn’t met Abbadon at that point.
    The person in the casket is Rose. Hence, if the wormhole theory is correct- she was cancer free on the island, but once off of the island (as one of the 6?) she may have died of her cancer.[/quote]

  216. Deangoodes says:

    If Ben were ultimately good and he was doing what was best for everybody (including the Losties), why in the Heck won’t he tell the Losties why he is doing what he is doing?? I’m sure if he told Jack all the reasons he has acted the way he has to protect the Island and the Others and the Losties, he would understand. (Well maybe not anymore, but certainly at one point a year or two ago when they weren’t sure whether to trust Ben or not. But he hasn’t been up front and honest therefore he is up to no good.

  217. lostlaur* says:

    Rick-
    I think your theory really has some merit to it. It’s really well-thought out & I’ll be rereading it before I start commenting on it!

    Also- people are quoting something I said but I don’t remember saying it & can’t find the comment… I feel like I’m going crazy. Are there 2 “lostlaur”s on here?? I’ll add a star to mine from here on out so I don’t keep getting confused.

    I think that Lost makes a really big effort to point out that nobody is really all good or all evil. It’s not that easy to put people in a category. Jack is not always the hero (trying to kill Locke), Locke is not always in tune with the island (can’t find Jacob’s house), Ben is not always in charge (he listens to Jacob). Everybody has the capacity for both good and bad & often has to struggle with it.

    So Ben definitely does his share of dastardly deeds but we DO have to consider the completely unorthodox childhood he had… His dad was pretty sucky & then he was used as part of a plan to murder the rest of the hippie camp he grew up with. All before he was 20. I’d have to say there’s something to be said about the fact that he grew up with the Others and they taught him all he knows. So are all of the Others bad or did Jacob just foster the bad in Ben ’til that was pretty much all he knew?

  218. vsn says:

    Does anyone remember the name of Hurley’s “friend” (in the mental hospital in season one) that told Hurley about the numbers?

    [quote comment="182060"]Sayid is from Iraq and Naveen Andrews is British of Indian descent so actors can portray other ethnicities. We knew Naomi was knowledgable about Manchester in England and her accent is British but other than that we don’t know her background.

    Susan- As far as Faraday being a “cripple” – (so not PC) the caretaker could have been for social/psychological help since we have seen he’s very intelligent yet his communication skills are somewhat awkward with the Losties or he could be hindered by his thinking processes and has a disability.[/quote]

  219. Bobola says:

    imagining michael’s guilt leaving his friends behind, ben (or at least someone working for ben) coerces michael to be a spy on the freight, to do something good for his friends…

    That sounds crazy to me; Michael don’t care anything about anyone ‘cept his own pathetic self. Why not just let him be the bad guy he is?; the writers just made him a cold stone killer, with a son, sniff, sniff.

  220. jebtion says:

    I am not completely convinced that Ben is the bad guy. It seems to me like he has manipulated a purge of sorts again. First, he facilitated the eradication of the Dharma and than became leader of the Others. At the end of season 3 we saw most of the Others meet their demise as Ben seamlessly became a part (albeit “hostage”) of the Losties. Could it be possible that the crash of 815 was merely a recruitment of a new crew for Ben. Kate (proficient at disquises and running), Sayid (ex torturer for army) , Sawyer (proffesional con artist)…. I could go on. Seems like he needs to purge and have new allies that he is finding amongst the Losties

  221. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182201"]imagining michael’s guilt leaving his friends behind, ben (or at least someone working for ben) coerces michael to be a spy on the freight, to do something good for his friends…

    That sounds crazy to me; Michael don’t care anything about anyone ‘cept his own pathetic self. Why not just let him be the bad guy he is?; the writers just made him a cold stone killer, with a son, sniff, sniff.[/quote]

    Michael killed Ana Lucia and Libby because he was forced into it by Ben. If you look at all the earlier Michael stuff he is/was pretty much a good guy who got the short end of the stick all the time. His wife leaves him and then she dies leaving Michael to raise a 12? year old that he has had no contact with. He had just started getting ahead and felt like his wife was ruining his life again. He comes to love Walt on the island and will then do anything to save him.

    If you are a parent, what would you do to save your child from some deranged kidnapper, which is how he had to see the others.

  222. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182204"]I am not completely convinced that Ben is the bad guy. It seems to me like he has manipulated a purge of sorts again. First, he facilitated the eradication of the Dharma and than became leader of the Others. At the end of season 3 we saw most of the Others meet their demise as Ben seamlessly became a part (albeit “hostage”) of the Losties. Could it be possible that the crash of 815 was merely a recruitment of a new crew for Ben. Kate (proficient at disquises and running), Sayid (ex torturer for army) , Sawyer (proffesional con artist)…. I could go on. Seems like he needs to purge and have new allies that he is finding amongst the Losties[/quote]

    We don’t know that most of the others died in Season 3. Two or three in the looking glass and ten on the beach. We don’t know how many others there are. There could easily be 30 or 40 more at least.

    In season 1 Ben sent his people to the losties camps with lists of the “good” people. These are the people he wanted to recruit.

  223. Mayes says:

    The girl’s bracelet IS Naomi’s bracelet, didn’t you see Sayid take it off her before she got placed on the helicopter? It was a tracking device and he gave it to the blonde as a “token” but really to keep track of her.

    Yes, I think Michael is the man on the boat!

  224. deputy dawg says:

    [quote comment="181923"]Hey Lost Bloggers–I’m afraid I’ve had to unsubscribe from your RSS feed because of this post. Sticking a big photo of Sayid on top and revealing he’s the subject of the episode in the first sentence, without warning, spoiled the ep for me.[/quote]
    This guy has a point. Saying that Sayid is the focus of the upcoming episode violates the 4th rule “No spoilers or discussion of episode previews.” Plus, throughout this thread, there has been frequent mention of the previews of next week’s episode. Myself, I do everything I can to avoid seeing the previews. That’s the main reason I came to this site in the first place – it was supposedly “spoiler free.” I know there are plenty of you out there who think it’s ridiculous to worry about spoilers (lostchicka, deangoodes, and I’m sure many others), and you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I’m not putting you down for that. But there are plenty of other people who like to avoid spoilers of any type, and that doesn’t make them any less of a fan and certainly doesn’t make them deserving of people making snippy comments about them (which, by the way is the 5th rule). The spoiler-free rule used to be strictly enforced, but now it’s not, so I can’t blame someone for deciding to not read this blog anymore.

  225. Mayes says:

    Oh, and Sayid is back on the island when he comes to get the bullet removed…he comes and goes just like Ben now.

  226. lostlaur* says:

    Awesome article ya’ll have GOT to read:

    http://www.reason.com/news/show/124807.html

  227. Will says:

    [quote comment="182220"][quote comment="181923"]Hey Lost Bloggers–I’m afraid I’ve had to unsubscribe from your RSS feed because of this post. Sticking a big photo of Sayid on top and revealing he’s the subject of the episode in the first sentence, without warning, spoiled the ep for me.
    This guy has a point. Saying that Sayid is the focus of the upcoming episode violates the 4th rule “No spoilers or discussion of episode previews.” Plus, throughout this thread, there has been frequent mention of the previews of next week’s episode. Myself, I do everything I can to avoid seeing the previews. That’s the main reason I came to this site in the first place – it was supposedly “spoiler free.” I know there are plenty of you out there who think it’s ridiculous to worry about spoilers (lostchicka, deangoodes, and I’m sure many others), and you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I’m not putting you down for that. But there are plenty of other people who like to avoid spoilers of any type, and that doesn’t make them any less of a fan and certainly doesn’t make them deserving of people making snippy comments about them (which, by the way is the 5th rule). The spoiler-free rule used to be strictly enforced, but now it’s not, so I can’t blame someone for deciding to not read this blog anymore.[/quote]

    Thank you for your comment, and I do appreciate your opinion. To some extent I agree with what you are saying, but in the grand scheme of things this blog has always attempted to use an image of the character that a specific episode centers upon in the preview we post day of.

    Sometimes we get it wrong – as we did with the season premiere this year, but it is only intended to initiate dialogue, not to serve as a spoiler. I apologize to those people who feel otherwise.

  228. Laura says:

    [quote comment="182002"]i am not going to pretend i understand relativity but it seems to be playing a large part in the show. it took the rocket 2hrs 45 mins and 3 secs to get to the island relative to the people on the island. it took 3 hrs 16 mins and 22 seconds according to “itself???” the clock in the rocket. it took thirty seconds relative to the people on the boat–remeber her counting down. so there is more to this than a 31 min delay.

    i know there have been experiments that a plane flying further from the earth has a clock showing a slower elapsed time than one moving on earth.

    so gravity and light affect time– but seriously i don’t know what could explain this–any physicists out there that can explain it? i’ve tried to read dumbed down laymen’s physics books but still don’t fully understand.[/quote]

    Your Physics Lesson:

    The space-time continuum can be explained by Einstein’s theory or relativity. Nothing in the universe can travel faster than the speed of light (approximately 3×10^8 m/s). Because this is such an enormous speed it is not evident on a day to day basis, and is often hard to understand.

    For those of you who have taken any physics, you will know Newton’s first law F=ma or force is equal to mass times acceleration. This is the fundamental theory of physics and dynamics, HOWEVER it does NOT hold true for things traveling at enormous speeds, speeds that being to approach the speed of light.

    When you do begin to approach the speed of light, everything gets thrown off, and normal Newtonian physics does not hold. It also means that our fundamental understanding of acceleration, velocity and TIME get confused, and “weird” things start happening. The theory can be proven if you send nuclear object that decays at a certain rate, off at enormous speeds into the universe. The object will return having decayed less than the objects “twin” on earth time. This is the basics of the theory of relativity.

    Now. As much as I think it is great, I think there may (!) be a simpler answer. Have you ever tried putting a giant magnet near your credit card or computer hard drive? Not a good idea. Magnets mess with memory on computer devices, devices that could have been inside of the little rocket clock.

    If indeed there is a giant magnet on the island (which seems to be a pretty consistent theme) then it could definitely have confused the rocket, messing with the coordinates so it took longer to arrive where it was sent, and changing the time on the clock.

    I think this theory is supported by the fact that both helicopter were suffering through an “electrical” storm and had trouble flying. Also, I believe this may be why Faraday made such a big deal about Lapidus staying on course… maybe because he knew the magnet would be a problem and he didn’t want Lapidus to be confused.

  229. El Comandante says:

    New to the thread, hope this goes well!

    I’m considering the time theory applied to Daniel Faraday and his “rocket experiment”. When Naomi was discovered, or perhaps in some other episode, I heard someone say the island can’t be seen from the outside.
    When Daniel was looking all around at his new found surroundings, he says the light seems to “scatter in a strange way’. THATS wrinkling my brow.
    With his timer showing a difference of about 30 minutes after it was confirmed to have arrived at the beacon, my take is that the real island
    is indeed “cloaked” or hidden through some immense magnetic field.
    This would explain how the rocket continued on for 30 more minutes before arriving at it’s true target, a different position altogether from what the freighter and anybody else trying to find the island would look for.
    Far fetched? Oh yeah! The whole time-warp, portal thing is becoming a strain. Aaahhh! The suffering…
    oh, but it’s a good suffering, aye.

  230. nicunurse says:

    Nice explanation, Laura, about the physics stuff…I like the idea about the clock/magnets…the writers are too smart to make this show about a space time continuum..they have been reading out blogs (they have said that they do read them) and throwing us a bone to throw us off course…
    Two comments:
    I heard on the radio that the color of the passports was significant…that the red passports had to do with military or civilians on official US business and the green also meant something..does anyone know about that?
    Also, why does Daniel ask Frank if he can use the phone? Is Frank in charge of communication?..note also that Frank replies, when Sayid says he wants to be taken to the freighter that…he will take him off the island…he doesn’t say to the freighter…
    I wonder if Kate takes on someone else’s identity when she gets off the island…so she can stay away from jail)..we know Shannon and her brother both die and Shannon’s father is dead…would anyone notice if Kate dyed her hair blonde and became Shannon as an oceanic 6 survivor?
    Can’t wait to watch this one again!

  231. DocH says:

    R.G. on the bracelet – Regina Goodspeed. Horace Goodspeeds daughter. A few years younger than Ben, survived the Purge, protected by Ben – currently Bens’ “Man” on the boat. She is the loyal spy and the downfall of Naomi and the freighter tots.

  232. DocH says:

    previous clue thnx to lost chicka: you figure out when she said it. she had it all along. i bow to her prowess/smartz!

  233. ghostrider says:

    Lost Chicka,from Wikipedia:

    A trivalent metallic rare earth element, holmium has the highest magnetic moment (10.6µB) of any naturally-occurring element and possesses other unusual magnetic properties. When combined with yttrium, it forms highly magnetic compounds.

    There are references to fertility and magnetism research relating to holmium. The island is a big holmium deposit. Ho-ho’s, Jack and Hurley playing horse and getting to “HO.”

    The yellow powder in the grandson’s bedroom wasn’t heroin or the ghostbuster would have stolen it. He of course would not have recognized holmium if it crawled up his leg.

    By the way, Ben killed the ghostbuster’s father, Marvin Candle, when he gassed the Dharma people during the purge. That’s why he wants to find Ben.

  234. lost chicka says:

    like juliet said ben either says things because he’s a liar or because it’s the truth. he’s twisted, he’s bad, he’s bug eyes, kinda creepy looking, and loveable! he’s just your average benevolent dictator. :)

    i agree with lostlaur* that lost makes a big effort to point out that nobody is really all good or all evil. everybody has the capacity for both good and bad and often has to struggle with it. and i’ll add on that everyone has the ability to do terrible things and the ability to change.

    how on earth do y’all know so much about physics? i can barely remember photosynthesis….huh, how does that work? lol. i’m not a scientist.

    how could the freighter tots find the island? do certain people know where the island is? was it just luck? i thought god didn’t even know it existed (that is of course according to ben linus).

    sugaree423: interesting site. kinda matches him and ben.

    pjsander: yeah, the eyes do look the same. and the lines. i guess des is definitly a possibility then.

    rick: good theory. last sentence tho reminds me of a videogame or something like that…ready for the next user to come along…

    paul comment 207: 1) get a life
    2) come on. seriously get a life. i hear they’re on sale at walmart
    3) sawyer + kate = 1 happier viewer
    4) agree but sayid has to beat the crap outa her first i’ve been waiting since last season for that moment.
    5) that would be awesoeme!

    deputy dawg: i don’t think it’s ridiculous to not like spoilers, spoilers would just suck the fun outa lost. i just think sometimes people get a bit sensitive about it. like, if you know that the thread for the next episode is posted earlier on that day, why would you read it? and a 30 second commercial can’t tell you a 45 minute show (but i get why you might now want to watch them. you kinda get a feeling for what is gonna happen). sorry if i come off as unkind.

    nicunurse: now that would be shocking. kate posing as shannon. ooo, i’m getting chills from that idea. that’s good. i wouldn’t put it past her. but she has brown hair in s3 ff…..

  235. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="182289"]previous clue thnx to lost chicka: you figure out when she said it. she had it all along. i bow to her prowess/smartz![/quote]

    keep on bowing and worshiping. :)

  236. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="182323"]Lost Chicka,from Wikipedia:

    A trivalent metallic rare earth element, holmium has the highest magnetic moment (10.6µB) of any naturally-occurring element and possesses other unusual magnetic properties. When combined with yttrium, it forms highly magnetic compounds.

    There are references to fertility and magnetism research relating to holmium. The island is a big holmium deposit. Ho-ho’s, Jack and Hurley playing horse and getting to “HO.”

    The yellow powder in the grandson’s bedroom wasn’t heroin or the ghostbuster would have stolen it. He of course would not have recognized holmium if it crawled up his leg.

    By the way, Ben killed the ghostbuster’s father, Marvin Candle, when he gassed the Dharma people during the purge. That’s why he wants to find Ben.[/quote]

    thanx. that makes SOOOO much sense now!

  237. DocH says:

    LC – I bow, I worship… I vacuum the ground you tred on.

    I think this is the most spoiler-free LOST site on the planet. Those here that speak profoundly AND tread into the spoiler enviro are VERY diligent in NOT incorporating those thoughts into their bloggings – very restrained – very respectful.

    Besides – if it has aired – commercial or preview or trailer ON AIR – it is fair game(conversation) and not a Spoiler. BTW, a Spoiler is knowledge of behind the scenes FACTS, nor aired, not publicized facts.

    //SPOILER ALERT//
    next week kate is the story…
    sorry… the powers that be have advertised and publicized this for weeks now… public knowledge… bury your heads!!!
    //SPOILER ALERT//

  238. skweez says:

    can someone tell me how to quote a previous comment in gray and then state my reply… whenever i select “quote and reply”, it all goes together….

  239. skweez says:

    In the S2 finale, Desmond was “sailing” for 2.5 weeks and ended up back on the island. Was he really sailing or was he on the freighter?

  240. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182227"]Oh, and Sayid is back on the island when he comes to get the bullet removed…he comes and goes just like Ben now.[/quote]

    Please state theories os such and not as facts. Those of us who read all the comments and folow the show closly can see the difference but stating theories as facts confuses others and creats a lot of confusion.

    If you have facts to back up this theory, please present them. That I would love to hear.

  241. soLOST says:

    Ok. My theories:
    1. Michael is in the coffin. (He is someone who betrayed the Losties and isn’t friend or family of Jack’s.) Didn’t the newspaper article mention one surviving son? It’s a good theory to think about Rose being the one who passed because her cancer returned after her leaving the island, but let’s just face it: Her funeral would be packed! Michael may have been the contact on the boat, who was forced to work for Ben on his way off the island, but it also might be Desmond. However, I lean more toward Michael, because all Desmond does is in an effort to get back to Penny.
    2. The producers mentioned that they are going to provide more answers than questions, so I don’t think the space-time continuum theories will hold. They are just too far-fetched. The time difference on the rocket’s clock has SOMETHING to do with magnets (a theme since season 1).
    3. Evil corporate types: Ben is either the warring entity of Penny’s dad or is working for him. Either way, the Dharma Initiative started with a billionaire inventor/venture capitalist who has little room for ethics. Apparently, something went a rye, and now there are ‘messes’ to be cleaned up all over (ie: the Island, all the assassinations….). I think Elsa is working with/for Abaddon, who are trying to find out who is still alive (She wanted ‘names.’). Now, which ‘who’ they are looking for is still in question: those 815ers still alive on the island, the Others who are working for Ben on the Initiative, or those Freighters who were after Ben under the guise of rescuing the 815ers.
    4. SAYID is ALWAYS RIGHT: I go where he goes…haha…seriously. He is working for Ben now out of necessity. Whatever happened between he and Ben and Locke at the barracks was a decision/trade made out of the best interests of the Losties. I have no doubt that the dramatic contrast in this episode of Sayid’s character is a means to an end.
    5. Ben is an international something or other…who knows what that actually is. I think the issue of his surgery and cancer was a result of the writers not knowing where the show was going in the next few season. After all, if he has so much clout and mobility, why would he trust in antiquated tools and a SINGLE surgeon? Obviously, the string of episodes regarding his cancer was in the mindset that there was no real way off the island, and Jack was his only hope. This theme has been politely swept under the rug, as the writer’s are taking it in a new direction.
    6. Locke vs. Ben: This subplot is getting a little too spiritual to hold. Something’s got to give. Locke obviously has some sort of connection to the island — and to Jakob — but how much of that is of a spiritual nature and how much of it has to do with the ever-looming outside manipulation is still to be decided.
    7. The real question for this season is are the Oceanic Six the only ones who got off the island? Or are they just the passengers that were rescued and received the very-public settlement? Because Ben was NOT an Oceanic Six passenger, and still he travels to and from the island without notice. So, either there are more than just the six that got off, or Ben is the exception. (Probably the latter).

    In any case, these are the things I can think of now…..so much to digest it makes my head hurt. Hats off to the writers…..amazing show.

  242. nicunurse says:

    Just rewatched…LOVED when Elsa asked Sayid his job…and he says “head hunter…..corporate recruiter…” Perfect!

    Why does Sayid go alone (with Desmond) to the freighter..seems like,if these are people out to get them, they might like more people…like Jack who has been so desperate to get off…why (besides the obvious kate thing) does Jack and/or juliette NOT go to the freighter…

  243. Rita says:

    I’m new to this site but after reading all of your ideas and comments, I had a new thought I didn’t see here. I’m now wondering if Jacob is some sort of Hologram from maybe Hanso corp? Ben says Jacob summons you, you don’t go to him, so “jacob” isn’t always transmitting. Jacobs request for help then, could be why Ben has a hit list, to “help him”, but he is really off island, and gives Ben help, info, etc. as he needs it. I love your time warp theories and I think you are all right!! Another idea: Maybe Christian Shepherd never died, but Jack was made to think he did (another spider bite?) and he really IS Jacob, but off island as I said. Anyway, this idea puts things squarely back into sci-fi, and less about supernatural (it just looks supernatural to those not in the know). What do you all think?

  244. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="182523"]Just rewatched…LOVED when Elsa asked Sayid his job…and he says “head hunter…..corporate recruiter…” Perfect!quote]

    yeah and i’m thinking i meet a guy he says that and i’d be like “ok, nice talking to ya gotta go….” call the cops. but i guess if she’s one too, why not just be the little head hunter lovers till they have a nice shoot out after some lovin.

    my thought: ben isn’t one of the oceanic 6, he wasn’t even on 815, or even crash on the island! ben goes on & off the island all the time and has been doing it for a LONG long time. i think the passports and money from multiple countries proves it, along with the picture of him the freighter tots have that was apparently tooken off island (or possibly by someone on island i suppose).

    how does ben get all that money??? i’m not a twisted island dictator so i wouldn’t know. and i really don’t think like one to often.

  245. lost chicka says:

    oops, that didn’t work out. my comment starts after the first break.

  246. nicunurse says:

    Oh and yes….remember when people commented last year about how the island is a healing place (no wheelchair for locke, no cancer for rose) and yet Ben got the tumor….now we realize that Ben HAS been going back and forth, hence the tumor…not sure why he couldn’t have surgery off the island, however, unless he knew something about healing powers on the island (after back surgery) vs. healing powers off the island…
    And, obviously, Ben did not let others know he was going back and forth…(hidden closet and all)…

  247. Found says:

    In regards to the rocket/time discrepancy… While I agree that there are magnetic anomalies associated with the island, there is no way that magnetism made it take an extra 31 min. to arrive. That rocket could not carry enough fuel to fly for that much time, therefore it has to be a time anomaly. The outsiders obviously know that there are time anomalies, hence the pre-arranged “experiment”. They were trying to quantify how much time shift was actually involved with the island. Seems like the result to that experiment is there is more of a time shift than they expected.

  248. Dany says:

    I saw the episode last night (OH MY GOD!!) and just finished reading all your great comments:

    Sawyer’s Evil Twin 111: Not a flash back the Sayid scenes, there was actually a reference during the bed scene, when Elsa mentioned she knew Sayid being one of the 06..and Tim 117: Ben’s couldn’t be Elsa’s boss since he’s Sayid’s we found out later…

    Barb 145: I don’t remember Christian Sheperds voice…
    right away I thought of Ben’s voice in the Vet office scene.. and of course, my mouth dropped… maybe the writers did camouflaged it a little not keep the suspense on the scene?

    RGS 126: I think the writers are trying to keep the mystery of the time difference otherwise they would give out too much information…

    RICK 205: great comment/theory!

    RGS 113. I think Daniel and possibly the other freighters folks know that there is something’s up with the time difference on the island, which would explain why Daniel was experimenting with the rocket…

    and here’s my two cents:

    The slower time on the island has something to do with the experiments of Dharma like most of you have pointed out, I am also branching out thinking about that they want to create a place where to be ‘immortal’… slowing time and even trying to stop it? The slower time would definitely create problems during a pregnancy.. but, Claire did deliver on the island, so did Danielle..

    Love the theory that Kate is also working for Ben and Jack refuses to so he is torn about keeping the secret (so is Harley)

  249. John Dante says:

    [quote comment="181611"]Why sayid can hoop up with a white girl but i cant?? maybe i gotta move to europe… Who is alpert??[/quote]

    The best comment so far since the Michael is Ben’s “man” on the boat thing.

  250. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182555"]Oh and yes….remember when people commented last year about how the island is a healing place (no wheelchair for locke, no cancer for rose) and yet Ben got the tumor….now we realize that Ben HAS been going back and forth, hence the tumor…not sure why he couldn’t have surgery off the island, however, unless he knew something about healing powers on the island (after back surgery) vs. healing powers off the island…
    And, obviously, Ben did not let others know he was going back and forth…(hidden closet and all)…[/quote]

    The fact that Ben’s tumor needed an operation further supports the “theory” that Ben is on the bad guy team. Now ultimately he may have to team up with the Losties to go against the larger evil, which could be the Dharma folks or someone like them.

    The hidden closet doesn’t necessarily mean that he kept his travels a secret from The Others. The Others are made up of a mix of original inhabitants, and some folks who were recruited (Juliette for one). Maybe it’s secret from those types.

    Only reason I question the secrecy of it, is because Alpert leaves the island to recruit folks. Plus it seems like they had to know about the submarine that was used to go back and forth.

    I can’t remember where I saw the post, but someone suggested that the Others were bad and may have influenced Ben. I would disagree with that notion, because all the Others wanted to do was cohabitate with the Dharma folks, but the Dharma folks appeared to have begun abusing the island in some kind of way. Thus the Purge.

    It seems the other may know something isn’t quite right with Ben, which is why they began believing that Locke was someone they needed in their fold. Weird thing is, why would they need him to kill someone to “prove” his worth? Maybe because they knew Locke’s dad to be evil? I have no clue.

  251. Tim says:

    Not to dwell on this too much but I had come to the 1 day island time equals approx 30 days non-island time even before this show so it isn’t just the rocket experiment that makes me think this is the situation.
    Unfortunately, I can’t remember exactly how I came to that conclusion.
    I will see if I can jog my memory as to how I concluded that and post the theory to see if others agree.
    Unfortunately, some of my HD recordings were deleted.
    What was I thinking?

  252. TheoryNut says:

    I LOVE THIS SEASON SO FAR! Here’s my two cents, please correct me if I’m wrong.

    First…I watched the “bracelet scene” multiple times, maybe I’m lame, but the initials look like R C not R G. Am I missing something?

    Also, Locke and Sawyer definately stay. I think Sawyer made it very clear to Kate that he’s staying, he has nothing to go back too. He’s found purpose on the Island with Kate. Rose and Bernard stay, I can’t remember the episode, but from what we know about her and her cancer, she’s staying with her hubby on the Island.

    I think Jin and Sun stay on the island too, wouldn’t Sun die if she leaves the Island being pregnant, or will she die no matter what because she got pregnant on the island.

    As soon as I heard the “voice” in the vet office I knew it was Ben. How come everybody thinks it Christian Shepherd morphing his voice… Crazy!

    One thing that perplexes me still to this day is Walt. In the earlier seasons when we saw the “ghostly” images of “wet, whisper” Walt. What the —-! I’m wondering if Walt is really dead like an earlier comment.

    Final one… I have to vent… OKAY… the smoke monster, when Lost first started, it was a terrifying unknown, the Losties were very concerned about “it”. Now everyone just trapes through the Jungle like no big deal. I hope the writers start giving us some more answers in the next few episodes! MEANWHILE, I LOVE THIS BLOG AND ALL THE THEORIES, KEEP ROCKING!

  253. Stan says:

    My thoughts:
    Michael is the man on the boat.
    Elsa and Naomi work for Abbadon/The Economist.
    When Hurley saw the cabin, it WAS there, and he willed it away.
    The cabin isn’t where it was before. IT CAN MOVE.
    Sun and Jin get off the island and complete the Oceanic Six.
    Alpert won’t be seen for a while due to his previous schedule conflicts with Cane (now cancelled).
    The time mismatch on the clocks is an interesting problem. Regina and Daniel communicated via phone in real time, so they have to be in the same time period. Maybe the island is moving at relativistic speeds, which allows for the slowing of time.
    Ben is going to the mainland to receive chemotherapy for his tumor, but when he was forced to remain on the island for an extended period of time, the tumor developed to a point that required surgery.
    The mysterious R. G. is not anyone we know as of yet, or in fact is no one at all, and the whole inscription is a red herring. The latter, though, is unlikely.

  254. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182615"]I LOVE THIS SEASON SO FAR! Here’s my two cents, please correct me if I’m wrong.

    First…I watched the “bracelet scene” multiple times, maybe I’m lame, but the initials look like R C not R G. Am I missing something?

    Also, Locke and Sawyer definately stay. I think Sawyer made it very clear to Kate that he’s staying, he has nothing to go back too. He’s found purpose on the Island with Kate. Rose and Bernard stay, I can’t remember the episode, but from what we know about her and her cancer, she’s staying with her hubby on the Island.

    I think Jin and Sun stay on the island too, wouldn’t Sun die if she leaves the Island being pregnant, or will she die no matter what because she got pregnant on the island.

    As soon as I heard the “voice” in the vet office I knew it was Ben. How come everybody thinks it Christian Shepherd morphing his voice… Crazy!

    One thing that perplexes me still to this day is Walt. In the earlier seasons when we saw the “ghostly” images of “wet, whisper” Walt. What the —-! I’m wondering if Walt is really dead like an earlier comment.

    Final one… I have to vent… OKAY… the smoke monster, when Lost first started, it was a terrifying unknown, the Losties were very concerned about “it”. Now everyone just trapes through the Jungle like no big deal. I hope the writers start giving us some more answers in the next few episodes! MEANWHILE, I LOVE THIS BLOG AND ALL THE THEORIES, KEEP ROCKING![/quote]

    Theory that is a great point about the smoke monster/lack of fear. Even if they all didn’t know about it, when Locke asks Ben in front of everyone, “What is the smoke monster!”, if I’m in the Locke group I gotta ask him what the hell is he talking about? Monster? Where? Um, I think we need to get the hell off this piece!

    Side comment on the Ben is good theory (I will bring this theory down…I will do it!) Another thing that came to mind re: nicunurse’s post, assuming Ben IS keeping his comings and goings secret from the Others, that would seem to indicate that he is again, BAD. He’s supposed to be teamed up with them, a part of their cult following, even mixing the Kool Aid, why does he need to keep his travels secret from his own “people.”

    They seem to have no problems going into the real world (Alpert).

  255. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182616"]My thoughts:
    Michael is the man on the boat.
    Elsa and Naomi work for Abbadon/The Economist.
    When Hurley saw the cabin, it WAS there, and he willed it away.
    The cabin isn’t where it was before. IT CAN MOVE.
    Sun and Jin get off the island and complete the Oceanic Six.
    Alpert won’t be seen for a while due to his previous schedule conflicts with Cane (now cancelled).
    The time mismatch on the clocks is an interesting problem. Regina and Daniel communicated via phone in real time, so they have to be in the same time period. Maybe the island is moving at relativistic speeds, which allows for the slowing of time.
    Ben is going to the mainland to receive chemotherapy for his tumor, but when he was forced to remain on the island for an extended period of time, the tumor developed to a point that required surgery.
    The mysterious R. G. is not anyone we know as of yet, or in fact is no one at all, and the whole inscription is a red herring. The latter, though, is unlikely.[/quote]

    I thought Juliette was the person that informed him that he had a tumor. It didn’t seem like he knew until she told him. Then he expressed relief when he pointed out, that the crash delivered him a spine surgeon, “just in the nick of time.”

  256. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182606"]Not to dwell on this too much but I had come to the 1 day island time equals approx 30 days non-island time even before this show so it isn’t just the rocket experiment that makes me think this is the situation.
    Unfortunately, I can’t remember exactly how I came to that conclusion.
    I will see if I can jog my memory as to how I concluded that and post the theory to see if others agree.
    Unfortunately, some of my HD recordings were deleted.
    What was I thinking?[/quote]

    Jacob deleted the recordings, you were getting too close to the truth.

  257. Rita says:

    I think they are ALL bad. Doesn’t Jacob mean “the deceitful one”? The liar?

  258. Circus Mom says:

    Perhaps the cabin wasn’t there for Locke because Hurley was with him and Hurley had wished/willed the cabin away.

  259. lostlaur* says:

    [quote comment="182622"]
    Jacob deleted the recordings, you were getting too close to the truth.[/quote]

    i nominate this for best reply ever!

  260. Rick says:

    In regards to my “Ben is good” theory, I would clarify that I don’t mean good in the absolutist Christian sense. Rather, Ben’s ultimate motivations are for the sake of helping others. Perhaps bad vs. good is the wrong dynamic to think of. Rather, it’s one person/organization’s idea of using the island versus Ben’s.

    The lack of any true “good” and “bad” is one of the central themes of the show. There’s good and bad in everybody depending on your perspective. Sure, certain actions (lying, killing, manipulating, etc.) can be seen as immoral, but labeling specific people as bad or good is just chasing our collective tails. There are no good and evil people here. Just people with different motivations and value systems.

  261. Laura says:

    It would be impossible for the island to be moving at a “relativistic” speed fast enough that there would be a 30 minute time delay. The only way it could “work” would be if the island was moving somewhere on the order of 10^8 m/s faster than the rest of the world. To put his into perspective SOUND moves at 353 m/s.

    Then again, this is science FICTION so who knows how “realistic” everything will be in the end, but in my past experience with LOST the writers seem to do a pretty good job keeping things realistic and anyone who has any understanding of relativity will know that this is utterly impossible. Then again, idk how many losties are dorks like me :)

  262. roses12 says:

    Why doesnt Sayid kill Ben and release the losties himself?????

    [quote comment="181655"]
    Why was he injecting sayid with something- is that normal bullet removal procedure? [/quote]
    i thought initially it was a local anathestic but you never know with Lost. Also dog pound surgery classic illegal, below the radar, activity. Doesn’t tally with Ben having deep operations and a sophisticated set-up. Whats the deal?

    #83 the fake crash site was off the coast off India but that doesn’t mean our island is. When Sayid was hunting for Locke in Ben’s house did you notice all the African masks??

    #84 thank you for giving me a reason to not hate Hurley for abusing our trust in him. thank you so much.

    #99 ok thinking about it the guy in the hatch with Desmond could have used the chemical suit because of the lingering chemicals from the purge,so the freighters might have brought the gas masks with them to protect them not to kill the islanders. but two issues: why did they not wear them when parachutting from the helo and why did Desmond’s hatch partner not realise the air was safe as soon as Desmond arrived on the island radioactive free?

    #115 Walt being taller is not significant. the whole thing with Sawyer and Locke was to emphasis that Walt being taller was not related to time shifts but a big heads up to us all that they know we know Walt is grown in real life but that he’s not susposed to have grown in the show. lol.

    #208 it was more interesting that the same questions were asked on this board, about kates motivation for returning home, last week..you lot are good

    #222 i never understood why Hurley was on the original list (although he was the only who knew about the numbers before coming to the island) do you think his role will become pivotal in this season?

    #253 isnt kate pregnant?

    finally if they want the religious speculation to stop then the writers are just going to have to stop putting all those biblical names out there lol

  263. PreviouslyOnLost says:

    Brand new to the site and I just want to say from a guy who has followed the show from day one I think you are all doing a GREAT job of opening discussion and debate and exchanging great theories! One problem: The “RG” on the braclet standing for Republican Gaurd? Why would an ex-Iraqi soldier have that on a braclet, not forgetting that in ARABIC its not referred to as “republican guard” so that is far too big a stretch. Also I don’t remember who posted but the comment that the coordinates ending up in the ocean off of Nigeria may coincide with Eko’s brother’s plane disappearance? Fascinating! Any thoughts?

  264. Mustachio says:

    [quote comment="181874"]Just a few observations and thoughts:

    The name on Ben’s passport: “DEAN MOHIGHAN”, a character from Jack Kerouac’s “On the Road”

    Naomi’s bracelet: The inscription was signed by the intials RG. The woman that the tots speak with is Regina and she sounds very similar to Naomi, could they be twins? When “Naomi” speaks to Abaddon about picking the four to go to the island, was that really Naomi or Regina?

    Desmond and the picture of him and Penny that Naomi carried: The burning question, how does Naomi have this picture? Well, there is one character that everyone seems to forget, Desmond’s former hatchmate, remember the man who pushed the button for years before Desmond arrived on the island? The special forces commander from Iraq that has a link to Sayid? He’s connected to this in a very important way. Consider this: he’s not apart of the the others, he’s not a part of Dharma, he arrived on the island in someway like the freighter tots. Why? Well, Ben killed the Dharma initiative people you think he would have left one alive? He can’t be apart of the Others either because how could he have served in the military in Iraq? Could he have somehow sent a copy of Desmond’s picture off the island? In addition much like the tots when we first meet him, he is dressed in what? A chemical suit and a gas mask… just like the freighter tots brought with them. Although this guy only was in a few episodes and Desmond did kill him… it seems to be important to the story arc this year….

    Sayid: The first man he kills is on a golf course in South Africa… The man did not recognize Sayid but the look of fear on his face after hearing Sayid’s name was unmistakable.

    The island: Could the magnetic anomalies account for the slowing of time? If the magnetic field around the island is different compared to the rest of the earth would that slow time? Also the “magnetic expulsions”, ie when Desmond almost didn’t push the button in time which resulted in Oceanic 815 crashing and two seasons ago when the hatch exploded resulting in Penny’s antarctica team to “See” the island…. Do these magnetic expulsions result the island “jumping” into real time momentarily, thereby altering the space / time area around it? Think about it if the island is thirty minutes or three hours behind… does it exist in what one considers real time….?[/quote]

    Regina cannot be Naomi’s twin. Regina is played by Zoe Bell who is 6’2 and white

  265. Joel says:

    Good posts. I want to bring up the time issues in light of one of the big discussions a year or so ago. Remember that there were no clocks on the island, other than the timer in the hatch? And then, when we finally saw Ben’s house, some of you noticed that he had the only clocks on the island. Now we saw Faraday’s two different timers. There is no time difference between the island and the rest of the world; there is only a time-keeping problem.

  266. Laura says:

    Nicunurse…. from lostpedia:

    The New Zealand passport shown briefly from the drawer is a diplomatic passport. Standard issue New Zealand passports are blue, while the one shown in the episode was red.

  267. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182674"]Why doesnt Sayid kill Ben and release the losties himself?????

    [quote comment="181655"]

    #99 ok thinking about it the guy in the hatch with Desmond could have used the chemical suit because of the lingering chemicals from the purge,so the freighters might have brought the gas masks with them to protect them not to kill the islanders. but two issues: why did they not wear them when parachutting from the helo and why did Desmond’s hatch partner not realise the air was safe as soon as Desmond arrived on the island radioactive free?

    The losties are in danger from the people Ben is having Sayed kill and Ben gets the list from somewhere.

    The guy in the hatch knew the air was safe. He said it wasn’t to keep Des inside. Des found out when he followed him and say him remove his mask.

  268. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182712"]Good posts. I want to bring up the time issues in light of one of the big discussions a year or so ago. Remember that there were no clocks on the island, other than the timer in the hatch? And then, when we finally saw Ben’s house, some of you noticed that he had the only clocks on the island. Now we saw Faraday’s two different timers. There is no time difference between the island and the rest of the world; there is only a time-keeping problem.[/quote]

    In season 1 Jin accused either Sawyer or Michael of stealing his watch and Jacks father gave him a watch on his wedding day. Dose anyone know if they are still wearing them. Most people don’t wear watches these days.

  269. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182724"][quote comment="182674"]

    The losties are in danger from the people Ben is having Sayed kill and Ben gets the list from somewhere.

    The guy in the hatch knew the air was safe. He said it wasn’t to keep Des inside. Des found out when he followed him and say him remove his mask.[/quote]

    I have trouble with the quotes. This was the new part.

  270. Laura says:

    From Wikipedia (about Michael FARADAY):

    In 1845, he discovered the phenomenon that he named diamagnetism, and what is now called the Faraday effect: The plane of polarization of linearly polarized light propagated through a material medium can be rotated by the application of an external magnetic field aligned in the propagation direction. …This established that magnetic force and light were related.

    Faraday did not work with relativity, as I said before this was Einstein’s thing… he was born ten years after Faraday died. Faraday worked with magnetism, and light (hence the “scattering light” comment).

  271. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="182622"][quote comment="182606"]Not to dwell on this too much but I had come to the 1 day island time equals approx 30 days non-island time even before this show so it isn’t just the rocket experiment that makes me think this is the situation.
    Unfortunately, I can’t remember exactly how I came to that conclusion.
    I will see if I can jog my memory as to how I concluded that and post the theory to see if others agree.
    Unfortunately, some of my HD recordings were deleted.
    What was I thinking?[/quote]

    Jacob deleted the recordings, you were getting too close to the truth.[/quote]

    haha :)

  272. Laura says:

    Does anyone else find it creepy that after Sayid tells the golfer dude that he is oceanic 6 he says “take your shot, MY FRIEND.” and then kills him. i mean why didn’t he just whip out the gun right then… and skip the whole friend bit. Also, the guy didn’t run, so he wasn’t positive that Sayid was going to kill him or anything he was just worried.

  273. PreviouslyOnLost says:

    Keep in mind laura, before Sayid said take your shot that the Italian man referred to Sayid as “my friend” also. so it may have just been Sayid being sarcastic and kind of mocking his target before striking

  274. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="182665"]In regards to my “Ben is good” theory, I would clarify that I don’t mean good in the absolutist Christian sense. Rather, Ben’s ultimate motivations are for the sake of helping others. Perhaps bad vs. good is the wrong dynamic to think of. Rather, it’s one person/organization’s idea of using the island versus Ben’s.

    The lack of any true “good” and “bad” is one of the central themes of the show. There’s good and bad in everybody depending on your perspective. Sure, certain actions (lying, killing, manipulating, etc.) can be seen as immoral, but labeling specific people as bad or good is just chasing our collective tails. There are no good and evil people here. Just people with different motivations and value systems.[/quote]

    good comment and i agree completely. everybody on the island has done something bad. kate everybody’s sweetheart for example, killed her father totally thought out how to do it, so he wouldn’t beat up her mother anymore and she could “erase” the thought of him being a part of her. sayid was in the republican guard so they wouldn’t kill his family. locke sold drugs for cryin out loud, and boone paid off people to not date his sister (maybe not evil, but wins him the bad brother of the year award).

  275. deputy dawg says:

    [quote comment="182344"]can someone tell me how to quote a previous comment in gray and then state my reply… whenever i select “quote and reply”, it all goes together….[/quote]
    After you hit “quote and reply”, make sure your cursor is after the last instance of the word “quote” between the [] before you start to type. However, when you do the “quote and reply” thing on a comment that is a “quote and reply” to another comment, your response won’t be separated from the previous comment.

  276. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="182736"]Does anyone else find it creepy that after Sayid tells the golfer dude that he is oceanic 6 he says “take your shot, MY FRIEND.” and then kills him. i mean why didn’t he just whip out the gun right then… and skip the whole friend bit. Also, the guy didn’t run, so he wasn’t positive that Sayid was going to kill him or anything he was just worried.[/quote]

    or freaked out! i mean if you meet somebody knowing something horrible happened to them, you’re gonna act a bit wierd. i think sayid just wanted to play some golf. i’m sure he misses the island cup. speaking of hurley’s golf course, why isn’t anybody using it? come on we got doctors and doctors LOVE golf.

  277. deputy dawg says:

    [quote comment="182339"]LC – I bow, I worship… I vacuum the ground you tred on.

    I think this is the most spoiler-free LOST site on the planet. Those here that speak profoundly AND tread into the spoiler enviro are VERY diligent in NOT incorporating those thoughts into their bloggings – very restrained – very respectful.

    Besides – if it has aired – commercial or preview or trailer ON AIR – it is fair game(conversation) and not a Spoiler. BTW, a Spoiler is knowledge of behind the scenes FACTS, nor aired, not publicized facts.

    //SPOILER ALERT//
    next week kate is the story…
    sorry… the powers that be have advertised and publicized this for weeks now… public knowledge… bury your heads!!!
    //SPOILER ALERT//[/quote]
    Well, I expected some snide comments, but not from the good doctor!

    I disagree that this is the most spoiler-free site on the planet. It’s better than most, I’ll give you that. But…I’ve made comments on other boards that were less spoiler-ish than a lot of comments you read here, and I’ve had them deleted, plus I’ve gotten warnings from the operators of those sites for making those types of comments. I think the mods here do a good job as well. However I know of one current comment on this thread that is indeed a spoiler – not someone’s opinion, not someone’s theory. It may not be recognized as such, but it is a true spoiler that even meets your definition, Doc.

    Speaking of which, the definition of spoiler you that provide here is your own personal definition, and I can guarantee you that there are many people out there who regard anything other than what has happened within the confines of the actual broadcast of an episode as a spoiler. This includes previews, I am sorry to inform you. This doesn’t mean that you are wrong, it just means there are people who are more anal about their spoiler-free-ness. And it definitely doesn’t mean that they are people who deserve to be mocked. Different strokes….

    Regarding your sarcastic “spoiler alert” – regardless of whether or not you consider a preview a spoiler, the fourth guideline above where you type in your comment says “No … discussion of episode previews”. I deleted the word “spoilers” from that quote soas not to confuse people. No discussion of episode previews allowed. Mock me if you must, I’m just pointing out the rules.

    You may say (and others have said), how does a preview ruin the show for you? Well, regarding the preview for next week (of which I won’t repeat a description here), we didn’t know why Kate didn’t return with Sayid. Yes, Sayid says she decided to stay, but we don’t know that is true, and there are other possibilities – she was part of the trade for Charlotte; Sayid left without talking to Kate; Ben talked Sayid into leaving her; she got killed; or who knows what else. But, the preview gives us a pretty good idea of why she stayed. Many people would consider that a spoiler.

    The other quetion people have asked is how does knowing whose flashback will be told ruin the show for you? Well, if you find out whose flashback will be told, for example, five episodes from now (which, by the way is information that is usually available), then you pretty much know that character will live through the next 4 episodes. Kinda takes some of the suspense out of the show.

    Enough of that – no hard feelings, DocH, Lostchicka, Will or anyone else. I’m just bored and trying to entertain myself by engaging in a little debate.

  278. lostlaur* says:

    I agree with the Africa theory. In addition to the drug smugglers’ plane, there is also the Black Rock. Does anybody know what era that ship is from? Either way, it was definitely a slave ship and another detail that I think supports the Africa theory. Also didn’t somebody look up the “numbers” as coordinates & it was somewhere in the ocean off an African coast?

    Not that this really answers any big questions, like HOW they got to a hidden island off Africa. Or what makes a rocket take an extra 30 MINUTES to land? Or PLEASE LOST FOR MY SANITY explain this Jacob in the shifty shack craziness. At the LEAST do your usual, “give me some info about it & then make my brain die when you add 5 new mysteries to the mix” specialty.

    Can we figure out a way to use the special island powers to make Thursdays come faster?

  279. PreviouslyOnLost says:

    I have a man on the boat that can make thursdays come faster. But if we are on island/magnetic affected time isn’t thursday like ten minutes from now? Or did next weeks episode already pass! Anyone have Farrady’s number?

  280. lost chicka says:

    what makes this episode good:
    1) Naomi’s Bracelet. (and i think it says RC too). I love it when Sayid finds that bracelet.
    2) Sayid getting down to buisness on the island to get himself off the island and not wasting time like Jack.
    3) Sayid tells the dude on the golf course to “take your shot my friend” right before he get’s shot.
    4) the sprinklers coming on right after sayid shoots the guy, and sayid walks calmly away as if it was just another day of golfing.
    5) It’s interesting, Sayid tells Mr. Golf that he does nothing and tells Ms. German that he’s a head hunter like no big deal.
    6) I like sawyer’s idea about shooting off ben’s “little piggies” one by one.
    7) Jack and Kate’s “now you know what it’s like to be me” conversation.
    8) Jack having absolutely no problem telling Frank everything about Sayid’s past.
    9) Daniel’s awkwardness and Frank’s straightforwardness.
    10) the mystery of daniel’s call and the rocket.
    11) Miles’ remark about the swing set.
    12) Sayid, Kate, and Miles “hiding” behind the tree like it will protect them even tho it couldn’t hide an anorexic person.
    13) Sayid, Kate, and Miles finding Hurley and questioning hurley.
    14) Hurley’s comment about Miles being the new sawyer. (but miles is a lot meaner, has no heart, looks ugly, has no charm, and makes me wanna throw the remote at my tv)
    15) Miles saying “Not Yet” for the reply of if they’re here to kill them. creepy and i believe miles would shoot everybody.
    16) the mystery of why the clocks are different times.
    17) desmond looking hot with his gun.
    18) The secret room in ben’s house behind the bookshelf (of course where else would it be?!). the suitcases, the passports, the money, everything.
    19) Sayid, Locke, and Danielle and Sawyer & Kate’s nice little reunion.
    20) The reveil of hurley being used as bate. shocking.
    21) hurley’s comment about sayid snapping the other guy’s head with his breakdancing move. that was like one of the best moments last season and it’s good to know it wasn’t forgotten.
    22) Ben & Sayid in their jail cell.
    23) Sawyer & Kate’s conversation in Ben’s room. why they went with who they went with and why sawyer won’t leave and why kate shouldn’t leave.
    24) Locke’s friendly gesture of bringing the iced tea.
    25) How Sayid says charlotte
    26) Sayid’s comment about trusting ben (and then at the end he apparently does)
    27) Sayid’s hair off island. it’s amazing. :) hehe
    28) When Elsa and Sayid start fighting and shoot each other.
    29) Elsa’s bracelet.
    30) Sayid coming back with just Charlotte.
    31) Sayid telling Jack Kate decided to stay.
    32) Sayid, Des, and Frank leaving the island.
    33) The whole entire scene in the vet’s.
    34) I swear at the end Ben says “Remember what they did last time you felt with your heart instead of your gun.” and then Sayid says “you used that to recruit me into killing people for you.”

    And a couple other things:
    ~ Elsa’s boss is very old fashioned…reminds me of Jacob.
    ~ Why was frank interested in where sayid was from? don’t know why that seems odd to me.
    ~ This seems to bug only me, but why does frank tell daniel to hang up if minkowski gets on?

  281. lost chicka says:

    deputy dawg: all right let’s debate. i’m starting to have some fun here with it. this is probably not the most spoiler free site on the planet, but for the most part we do a pretty good job of sticking to the episode and we’re definitly not the spoiler site either. i say a spoiler is anything not on a commercial for lost or on the episode previously aired. i have no clue how you cannot watch the previews so i’ll give you some points for that and whoever else manages to do that. (i’m sure with help from jacob.) once something’s aired it’s not a spoiler to me. i don’t think the pictures are a spoiler, lots of times the pictures aren’t who the ff/fb belong to. and if you know they’re gonna be up on the site on thursday, why look at it?!?!?!? i don’t want to know who next week’s episode belongs to, that IS a spoiler i agree, and i definitly don’t want to know who’s episode will be 5 weeks from now. i like the suspense of not knowing who’s gonna be focused on and guessing. ok, you’re turn. :)

  282. PreviouslyOnLost says:

    LOSTCHIKA you wrote: 34) I swear at the end Ben says “Remember what they did last time you felt with your heart instead of your gun.” and then Sayid says “you used that to recruit me into killing people for you.”

    I noticed that too and went back and listened to it again. Sayid says “you used HER to recruit me into killing people for you” Could this have meant Naomi? It has been discussed on this blog that Sayid seemed to have a connection for her or a softness for her when she died. Also the bracelets too, maybe Sayid knew her and she was someone important to him. Could he find out later that Ben had something to do with her death and because of that Sayid ended up Ben’s pawn?
    I know I’m new here but just my two cents : to ME anything broadcast already especially BY the Lost producers, ABC people etc isn’t really a spoiler. I understand what everyone is saying but I just think if it’s two seconds after the end of an episode on TV it’s not really a spoiler, it’s a TEASER which is purposefully meant to be shown to us (especially since most times the editing misleads us anyway and keeps us from knowing what actually happens!) Just a thought! Didn’t mean to jump into your debate but couldn’t resist ;)

  283. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182665"]In regards to my “Ben is good” theory, I would clarify that I don’t mean good in the absolutist Christian sense. Rather, Ben’s ultimate motivations are for the sake of helping others. Perhaps bad vs. good is the wrong dynamic to think of. Rather, it’s one person/organization’s idea of using the island versus Ben’s.

    The lack of any true “good” and “bad” is one of the central themes of the show. There’s good and bad in everybody depending on your perspective. Sure, certain actions (lying, killing, manipulating, etc.) can be seen as immoral, but labeling specific people as bad or good is just chasing our collective tails. There are no good and evil people here. Just people with different motivations and value systems.[/quote]

    Let me preface by stating I’m not saying either one of us is right or wrong. I understand where you are coming from with that theory but a couple of points.

    The way you are describing Ben, seems to be a more accurate description of Locke. Seems sorta like a waste of characters (minor point).

    However given what we know of Ben, it seems that to characterize him as good, would be saying, “he’s a good dictator, just doing what’s best for his people.” If you can go with that, fine, I am not necessarily believing there can be good dictators.

    If Ben were to be a “good guy” given what we know of him, it seems that he would have to make some kind of sacrifice of himself, at the very end of the show, to save the island. He’s just done too much wrong. It is kinda like Darth Vader in the Star Wars movies.

    Darth Vader wanted good for everyone, and everyone should be under one rule, the Empire. It was his way of bringing order to the universe and prevent his loved ones from being killed. Anyone standing in his way got dealt with. It wasn’t until the end of the series that he became “good” when he turned on the Emperor.

    As far as the Losties being good or bad, yes for the most part we get to know their darker side PRE-island. However, once on the island, they’ve pretty much been painted as good, working for the good of the Losties, and trying to get everyone back to civilization, which currently is the ultimate good thing to happen.

    So yes none of the characters are pure evil or pure good, however when I use “good guys” or “bad guys” I guess I’m talking about the characters we as viewers theoretically should be rooting for.

    Even when Ben is stitching up Sayid, we are again reminded that for whatever purpose they are working together, it is not totally of Sayid’s free will. I forget the quote, but he says you used her to recruit me, or something.

  284. RGS says:

    [quote comment="182765"]what makes this episode good:
    1) Naomi’s Bracelet. (and i think it says RC too). I love it when Sayid finds that bracelet.
    2) Sayid getting down to buisness on the island to get himself off the island and not wasting time like Jack.
    3) Sayid tells the dude on the golf course to “take your shot my friend” right before he get’s shot.
    4) the sprinklers coming on right after sayid shoots the guy, and sayid walks calmly away as if it was just another day of golfing.
    5) It’s interesting, Sayid tells Mr. Golf that he does nothing and tells Ms. German that he’s a head hunter like no big deal.
    6) I like sawyer’s idea about shooting off ben’s “little piggies” one by one.
    7) Jack and Kate’s “now you know what it’s like to be me” conversation.
    8) Jack having absolutely no problem telling Frank everything about Sayid’s past.
    9) Daniel’s awkwardness and Frank’s straightforwardness.
    10) the mystery of daniel’s call and the rocket.
    11) Miles’ remark about the swing set.
    12) Sayid, Kate, and Miles “hiding” behind the tree like it will protect them even tho it couldn’t hide an anorexic person.
    13) Sayid, Kate, and Miles finding Hurley and questioning hurley.
    14) Hurley’s comment about Miles being the new sawyer. (but miles is a lot meaner, has no heart, looks ugly, has no charm, and makes me wanna throw the remote at my tv)
    15) Miles saying “Not Yet” for the reply of if they’re here to kill them. creepy and i believe miles would shoot everybody.
    16) the mystery of why the clocks are different times.
    17) desmond looking hot with his gun.
    18) The secret room in ben’s house behind the bookshelf (of course where else would it be?!). the suitcases, the passports, the money, everything.
    19) Sayid, Locke, and Danielle and Sawyer & Kate’s nice little reunion.
    20) The reveil of hurley being used as bate. shocking.
    21) hurley’s comment about sayid snapping the other guy’s head with his breakdancing move. that was like one of the best moments last season and it’s good to know it wasn’t forgotten.
    22) Ben & Sayid in their jail cell.
    23) Sawyer & Kate’s conversation in Ben’s room. why they went with who they went with and why sawyer won’t leave and why kate shouldn’t leave.
    24) Locke’s friendly gesture of bringing the iced tea.
    25) How Sayid says charlotte
    26) Sayid’s comment about trusting ben (and then at the end he apparently does)
    27) Sayid’s hair off island. it’s amazing. :) hehe
    28) When Elsa and Sayid start fighting and shoot each other.
    29) Elsa’s bracelet.
    30) Sayid coming back with just Charlotte.
    31) Sayid telling Jack Kate decided to stay.
    32) Sayid, Des, and Frank leaving the island.
    33) The whole entire scene in the vet’s.
    34) I swear at the end Ben says “Remember what they did last time you felt with your heart instead of your gun.” and then Sayid says “you used that to recruit me into killing people for you.”

    And a couple other things:
    ~ Elsa’s boss is very old fashioned…reminds me of Jacob.
    ~ Why was frank interested in where sayid was from? don’t know why that seems odd to me.
    ~ This seems to bug only me, but why does frank tell daniel to hang up if minkowski gets on?[/quote]

    Lost chicka u are funny. One quick comment about #11 though, cuz I see it’s still bothering you. I think I would think it was weird that this uncharted island had swing sets and any other stuff not necessary to survive if I came upon it.

    I totally agree that Miles’s “Not yet,” comment should have put him on the receiving end of a hot slug in his leg or arm. At the very least somebody should have pistol whipped him. We don’t have time for those types of games.

    I have to assume Sayid really doesn’t consider Miles a threat for them to ignore the comment. But that’s crazy.

  285. Sinatra says:

    Another think!

    Is there some conection with guys in end of 2 season in north or south pole (dont know) waiting for some signals
    and the founden braclet in totaly diferen place! I mean is there some conection of those spots???

  286. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="182730"][quote comment="182724"][quote comment="182674"]

    The losties are in danger from the people Ben is having Sayed kill and Ben gets the list from somewhere.

    The guy in the hatch knew the air was safe. He said it wasn’t to keep Des inside. Des found out when he followed him and say him remove his mask.[/quote]

    I have trouble with the quotes. This was the new part.[/quote]

    thanks circus mom i forgot he did that.

  287. nicunurse says:

    [quote comment="182736"]Does anyone else find it creepy that after Sayid tells the golfer dude that he is oceanic 6 he says “take your shot, MY FRIEND.” and then kills him. i mean why didn’t he just whip out the gun right then… and skip the whole friend bit. Also, the guy didn’t run, so he wasn’t positive that Sayid was going to kill him or anything he was just worried.[/quote]
    I thought it was creepy, too. Also, if any of you play golf, you realize you really have to concentrate and have nerves of steel…I mean, really, you can’t move or whisper when a pro is golfing or it will mess up their shot…so how does this guy get SO CLOSE to the pin when he’s terrified of being shot to death…? He obviously didn’t know he would be shot by Sayid…he just knew something wasn’t good….

  288. Dany says:

    [quote comment="182787"]LOSTCHIKA you wrote: 34) I swear at the end Ben says “Remember what they did last time you felt with your heart instead of your gun.” and then Sayid says “you used that to recruit me into killing people for you.”

    I noticed that too and went back and listened to it again. Sayid says “you used HER to recruit me into killing people for you” Could this have meant Naomi? It has been discussed on this blog that Sayid seemed to have a connection for her or a softness for her when she died. Also the bracelets too, maybe Sayid knew her and she was someone important to him. Could he find out later that Ben had something to do with her death and because of that Sayid ended up Ben’s pawn?

    The bracelet may have some connection to Nadia… maybe Ben knows where she is and he’s forcing Sayid to do his dirty work so he can get to Nadia in return?

  289. Dany says:

    [quote comment="182787"]LOSTCHIKA you wrote: 34) I swear at the end Ben says “Remember what they did last time you felt with your heart instead of your gun.” and then Sayid says “you used that to recruit me into killing people for you.”
    [/quote]

    The bracelet may have some connection to Nadia… maybe Ben knows where she is and he’s forcing Sayid to do his dirty work so he can get to Nadia in return?

  290. dukewm says:

    BASIC RULES: Don’t know why some folks are so worried about spoilers. I don’t notice that enough to be of much concern. Seems to me the MOST COMMON VIOLATION is posting before reading. This site is so popular that it’s become pretty time consuming to keep up and is now actually hard to follow the BASIC RULE of reading through the Comments BEFORE posting. Come on folks, there are WAY TOO MANY “repeats”.

    And . . . Whatever the glitch was earlier in this thread that caused posts to be repeated about 30 minutes after clicking the “Submit Comment” button : That seems to have been corrected but could that have been deliberate and related to the 30 minute difference in Franks clocks ?

    Also . . . the long-winded posts seem frustrating to me so I’m ‘gonna “submit” now and post my thoughts on the actual show separately.

    Sorry for my venting . . . just wishing the repeats wouldn’t “clog up the blog”. PLEASE follow the rules.

  291. dukewm says:

    This site is extremely enlightening and definitely enhances the LOST experience.

    Lots of great contributions: Keep it comin’
    1. Awesome theories
    2. The scientific knowledge provided by Laura and others deserves special mention – thanks
    3. All the biblical references

    Good stuff ! Don’t know that anyone has figured out the whole series yet, but the info right here certainly helps.

    Some observations:
    1. The Golfers name in the Seychelles was Avellino
    2. I believe the German spelling is Else
    3. I’m pretty sure Hurley told Jack in the Gym “IT wants us to go back” NOT “HE wants us to go back”
    4. What is “IT” ?
    5. Given the general concensus that there is (or was) some electro-magnetic shield or bubble surrounding the island that may have rendered it “invisible” or at least “off the radar” . . . I’m gonna’ keep my beliefs more towards the realistic end of the spectrum beyond that and try to remain skeptical on all the theories about parallel universes and “they ARE all dead and now in Hell” etc.
    6. I DO think the “Time-warp” theories justify some merit. Lots of strange clues about time (i.e. How can Ben show Jules a video that included a newspaper headline of the Flight 815 crash minutes after the plane broke up over their heads ?)
    7. The O6 as we know it: Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid PERIOD. Anyone else is speculation
    8. I agree with those who are thinking/hoping the other 2 are Claire and her baby unless they don’t count him ‘cuz he wasn’t technically on the plane
    9. Who was the kid in the picture on the stairway when Miles did his exorcism ?
    10. The Island is like the Bermuda Triangle for ships and planes – a DANGEROUS AREA
    11. The distorted voice that morphed into Bens’ was just for dramatic effect until thay showed his face. I don’t think it was supposed to be Christian or Jacob.
    12. It has to be Michael on the boat
    13. Who watches these episodes only once ?

    NUMBERS are significant
    NAMES are significant
    Hmmmmmm ! NUMBERS and NAMES

  292. Nigr0damus says:

    1)A lot of people have mentioned that Jin could be working for Ben since Jin also did some “work” for Sun’s father, but who did Jin kill? As far as I remember, he beat up a couple of people & someone else came & finished the job, (i.e someone threw Jae off the balcony or he jumped off while Jin was sitting in his car.

    2)Also, this whole “Ben is good” thing y’all got going on only proves how manipulative he really is. This is the same guy that said “if ANY of em are stupid enough to get in your way KILL THEM” when he ordered Ryan & his cronies to kidnap the pregnant women.

    3)Damon & Carlton have repeatedly said that Desmond bought down 815, it was even shown how he did it, so why is everybody saying Ben had something to do with it? If he really had planned it, Goodwin & Ethan would have been waiting for the crash to happen. He would have already had the flight manifest & would not have had to go to Patchy to pull it up. Unless he didn’t want the others to know he planned it, but that’s too far fetched, isn’t it?

    4) Maybe it’s Ben & “Christian” talking to Sayid. I do agree there is some sort of “morph” that makes it sound like “Christian’s” voice is changing to Ben’s but it’s possible both are in the room talking to Sayid, they just decided not to show “Christian”. Sayid does not look at Ben until he says “She wanted to know about you” So maybe “”Christian” was off in the shadows talking to Sayid while Ben was working on his wound. BTW, they are not on the island on that scene IMO. The vet’s office has better equipment than where Ben got his tumor removed?

    5) Ben does leave the island often & the others did know about it. Remember when Ben was mapping a way to the radio tower to “talk them out of leaving”, Richard said “People are asking questions Ben, about leaving home…”

    Great theories on the whole “time/space” thing, even though I don’t understand any of em. I guess I’ll just have to wait for the writers to explain it.

    Off topic, is anybody else disappointed that the blue ray set of Lost came with 6 discs while the dvd version came with 7. I was hoping that it would only be a 3 disc set at the most, I hate changing discs every 4 eps.

  293. lostlaur* says:

    I don’t think Ben is “good” per se- I still think he’s pretty heartless (even Alex agrees- she hasn’t talked to him this whole time he’s been getting the tar whipped out of him).

    I do however think that he’s not really an adversary anymore. He could be classified as on the same side (good) as the Losties now that they have a common threat.

    And if he’s working with Sayid, who we all love & would classify as good (even though we’ve watched him hurt, maim & kill multiple people) then I don’t hesitate in lumping him in with the “good” side. At least until Ben’s next dastardly deed towards the Losties…

  294. John says:

    again, i bet we see Michael on the ship the next episode.
    he’s Bens guy…

  295. MissKim says:

    Lots of great theories being posted. Keep ‘em coming!
    Dukewm: (and everyone else! Dukewm had the most recent posting concerning this :)) In my opinion only 2 members of the O6 have truly been disclosed. Hurley announced it when being surrounded by police after the car chase and Sayid declared his affiliation to Mr. Avellino before shooting him at Seychelles. Kate and Jack have appeared off the island. Jack says he has a “golden ticket” and alludes that Kate has one as well. Jack visits Hurley and they discuss being noticed and sought after by the Press. This all certainly implies that Jack is one of the O6 (and Kate probably is too) but we haven’t heard that for sure. I’m inclined to think that they both probably are….but until I know for sure, I can only say that we know who two people of the O6 are, and we know of 5 people who have made it off the island. (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Ben)

  296. John says:

    [quote comment="183043"]Lots of great theories being posted. Keep ‘em coming!
    Dukewm: (and everyone else! Dukewm had the most recent posting concerning this :)) In my opinion only 2 members of the O6 have truly been disclosed. Hurley announced it when being surrounded by police after the car chase and Sayid declared his affiliation to Mr. Avellino before shooting him at Seychelles. Kate and Jack have appeared off the island. Jack says he has a “golden ticket” and alludes that Kate has one as well. Jack visits Hurley and they discuss being noticed and sought after by the Press. This all certainly implies that Jack is one of the O6 (and Kate probably is too) but we haven’t heard that for sure. I’m inclined to think that they both probably are….but until I know for sure, I can only say that we know who two people of the O6 are, and we know of 5 people who have made it off the island. (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Ben)[/quote]

    …and Michael ; )

  297. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182843"][quote comment="182665"]In regards to my “Ben is good” theory, I would clarify that I don’t mean good in the absolutist Christian sense. Rather, Ben’s ultimate motivations are for the sake of helping others. Perhaps bad vs. good is the wrong dynamic to think of. Rather, it’s one person/organization’s idea of using the island versus Ben’s.

    The lack of any true “good” and “bad” is one of the central themes of the show. There’s good and bad in everybody depending on your perspective. Sure, certain actions (lying, killing, manipulating, etc.) can be seen as immoral, but labeling specific people as bad or good is just chasing our collective tails. There are no good and evil people here. Just people with different motivations and value systems.[/quote]

    Let me preface by stating I’m not saying either one of us is right or wrong. I understand where you are coming from with that theory but a couple of points.

    The way you are describing Ben, seems to be a more accurate description of Locke. Seems sorta like a waste of characters (minor point).

    However given what we know of Ben, it seems that to characterize him as good, would be saying, “he’s a good dictator, just doing what’s best for his people.” If you can go with that, fine, I am not necessarily believing there can be good dictators.

    If Ben were to be a “good guy” given what we know of him, it seems that he would have to make some kind of sacrifice of himself, at the very end of the show, to save the island. He’s just done too much wrong. It is kinda like Darth Vader in the Star Wars movies.

    Darth Vader wanted good for everyone, and everyone should be under one rule, the Empire. It was his way of bringing order to the universe and prevent his loved ones from being killed. Anyone standing in his way got dealt with. It wasn’t until the end of the series that he became “good” when he turned on the Emperor.

    As far as the Losties being good or bad, yes for the most part we get to know their darker side PRE-island. However, once on the island, they’ve pretty much been painted as good, working for the good of the Losties, and trying to get everyone back to civilization, which currently is the ultimate good thing to happen.

    So yes none of the characters are pure evil or pure good, however when I use “good guys” or “bad guys” I guess I’m talking about the characters we as viewers theoretically should be rooting for.

    Even when Ben is stitching up Sayid, we are again reminded that for whatever purpose they are working together, it is not totally of Sayid’s free will. I forget the quote, but he says you used her to recruit me, or something.[/quote]

    Think of Ben as the lesser of two evils instead of good.

    Perhaps he dose sacrifice himself for the island in the end. He could be the guy in the coffin.

    Darth Vadar didn’t want good for everyone. He wanted power. He wanted to win.

    Since we know Hurley and Jack want back on the island we need to wonder if getting off the island is the ultimate good thing.

    The writers change who we theoredicaly should be rooting for on a regular basis.

  298. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="182999"]1)A lot of people have mentioned that Jin could be working for Ben since Jin also did some “work” for Sun’s father, but who did Jin kill? As far as I remember, he beat up a couple of people & someone else came & finished the job, (i.e someone threw Jae off the balcony or he jumped off while Jin was sitting in his car.

    2)Also, this whole “Ben is good” thing y’all got going on only proves how manipulative he really is. This is the same guy that said “if ANY of em are stupid enough to get in your way KILL THEM” when he ordered Ryan & his cronies to kidnap the pregnant women.

    3)Damon & Carlton have repeatedly said that Desmond bought down 815, it was even shown how he did it, so why is everybody saying Ben had something to do with it? If he really had planned it, Goodwin & Ethan would have been waiting for the crash to happen. He would have already had the flight manifest & would not have had to go to Patchy to pull it up. Unless he didn’t want the others to know he planned it, but that’s too far fetched, isn’t it?[/quote]

    A record was kept of the button pushing and sent to the serface in a vaccume tube. There wre also log books in one of the Dharma stations. On one of the logs Locke found a notation that the button had been pushed late. That was when Desmond was killing Kelven and the time and date stamp on the log matched when the plane crashed. It wasn’t planned by Ben and Desmond didn’t even know it happened.

  299. Bobola says:

    Maybe Miles will get to find out more for us by hovering over some old bodies on the island.
    I agree Miles could be dangerous, I don’t think he is a stone cold killer; he even gave back that lady a hundred bucks so he can’t even be considered all bad.
    HE could have killed the Doc off before they went for Naomi’s body so he’s not a maniac.
    Maybe Sayeed really wants to return to the island and working for Ben is his ticket back. Also; they do what they do FOR the island…to protect it and those on it (on their team) including the Polar Bears?

  300. Bobola says:

    ps
    I do not believe in the whole duality theory that people are good here and bad back there. It does not show up in the story or acting in any consistent way. A Red Herring at best.

  301. RGS says:

    Think of Ben as the lesser of two evils instead of good. Perhaps he dose sacrifice himself for the island in the end. He could be the guy in the coffin. Darth Vadar didn’t want good for everyone. He wanted power. He wanted to win. Since we know Hurley and Jack want back on the island we need to wonder if getting off the island is the ultimate good thing. The writers change who we theoredicaly should be rooting for on a regular basis.[/quote]

    I do understand that Ben may have the “higher purpose” of guarding the island, that is a more than plausible idea. I just disagree that he is that noble.

    My point of sacrificing himself at the end, was to show that IF he is good, we won’t find out until the last possible, “least expected” moment. Accordingly, at no point prior to that happening, should we in theory, root for him.

    Rick pointed out that folks have their own way of making things happen, yada yada. So while one could argue that Vader did not want good, following Rick’s line of thinking, (and what Vader pretty much said himself) was that the way that Vader was going about it, was his way of having order in the universe. He wanted control/power, because he felt he knew what was best for everyone, and it would protect his loved ones from harm. Kinda like going into Iraq…gasp*. Ut oh I’m wayyy off topic, stick to Lost, stick to Lost.

    I was saying that currently, getting off the island is the ultimate good. We dont know why they want to get back to the island yet, but yes we should wonder if that is the goal.

    I kinda agree that the writer’s change who we should be rooting for on a regular basis. It is only because, as Rick pointed out, the differing values that everyone, viewers included, have with regard to what’s right and wrong. For me it has been largely consistent, in terms of who I should root for.

  302. DocH says:

    Clarifications:

    Mars Comment 99 wrote, … Sayid: The first man he kills is on a golf course in South Africa…

    ((not South Africa. Seychelles Islands. 2000 miles North East of South Africa in the Western Indian Ocean.))

    roses12 Comment 262 wrote, … the fake crash site was off the coast off India but that doesn’t mean our island is.

    ((fake crash not off India. Crash wreck was South of Bali in the Eastern Indian Ocean, 2900 miles from India.))

    deputy dawg Comment 277 wrote, … how does knowing whose flashback will be told ruin the show for you? Well, if you find out whose flashback will be told, for example, five episodes from now …, then you pretty much know that character will live through the next 4 episodes.

    ((I agree. But I assume that she (K@8e) survives at least to the next episode, seeing that we see her with Jack in the closing scene from the S3 finale, miles & years from her current predicament. I never expected to see Charlie again either, but there he was in S4E02, delightfully unspoiled.))

  303. Tim says:

    Since it’s science fiction, we may as well forget about trying to figure out what is going on. It is just some made up nonsense that came out of these people’s minds and it is best just to sit back and relax and enjoy it.
    There is no way to reliably figure out what is going on.

  304. lost chicka says:

    previouslyonlost: her to recruit me….i could see it. and sayid did seem really “into” naomi when she died. at first when he just closed her eyes i didn’t think to much about it, but when he brings her home i think somethings fishy about that. i guess it could be nothing but i think it’s something. i don’t think those two knew-knew each other off island but there’s a connection it seems now that she’s dead. oh and jump in to the debate. just dive in to it. the “what is a spoiler” question always pops up and it’s fun to debate where the line is drawn…..that and if ben is good or bad. i think he’s good. :)

    dany: if that’s why he’s doing it (which i totally think could be true) he’s as love sick as des! this show is all about these poor guys who are desperatly in love with these girls they never get to see for years and are still willing to do anything to get to them.

    dukewarm: yes this site is wonderful and makes lost so much better! #4 – i think “it” is the island itself, or possibly jacob (i kinda think they are one in the same). and just so you know you’re breaking one of the rules with that comment and #9 & #3 – stick to this episode (i don’t mean that seriously, nobody goes back and reads the past threads so you kinda have to post em on the current thread).

    nigr0damus: 1) it was jae (the guy who was set up with sun, taught her english. oh, and they had an affair too) who “jin killed.” i think jae just killed himself – jumped out of the window and killed himself. 2) if they’re stupid enough to get the others’ way they should not they’re gonna die. i don’t blame ben either, i get annoyed with stupid people sometimes, but i do think shooting ‘em dead is a bit harsh….i hate changing discs every 4 episodes too, but lost is worth it. besides we probably need the excercise since finger exercises with the remote just will not keep you healthy enough to see the last episode of lost!!!!

    i REALLY want sun and jin to be the last people to be part of the O6. i love them! sun HAS to get off the island and jin canNOT leave her again! i love them! they’re so cute together!

    isn’t 6 like the devil’s number in the bible?????

    it’s so cute when people start venting on here about others not following the rules! :) there are probably more of those comments then the actual spoilers or repeat comments.

    if ben travels off island, could the temple be off island?????

    if i have to go one more week without seeing ben’s guy i’ll probably go crazy. i need to see michael on the boat and watch des and sayid’s reaction!!!! and i bet we won’t see michael/ben’s man next week.

    ben is a heartless murderer and kidnapper and manipulater….but 1/2 the losties have murdered people (kate, sawyer, charlie, sayid, jin, bernard, hurley, sun), juliet’s killed her own people and helped plan it, locke has kidnapped people (charlotte, cooper), and locke and sawyer have manipulated the other losties. i love ben, he can’t be a bad guy!!!! he’s never done drugs!

  305. DocH says:

    RGS: Comment 301 wrote… Think of Ben as the lesser of two evils instead of good.

    (( Or the greater of two evils. We missed a big gap in Ben’s life, the gap between his arrival as a tweener and the PURGE. What happened in that period that lead him to kill his dad -EVIL- level genocide -EVIL- on the scientists and support folks. What led him to wage war -EVIL- on the Losties & Tailies when he couldn’t gather their ‘fertile’ woman’… brainwash -EVIL- Karl, torture -EVIL- Sawyer… order Ana & Libby’s death -EVIL-, order the execution -EVIL- of conman Seward/Sawyer, pop a cap -EVIL- in Lockes @$$, etc…. His -EVIL- listings go on. What is it that Hanso, DeGroot, Widmore, Paik, Mittelos, Dharma Init, et. al. have done that is so evil that makes them MORE evil than Ben? Exploiting the 8th wonder of the world – the island? ))

  306. Lost Addict says:

    [quote comment="183043"]Lots of great theories being posted. Keep ‘em coming!
    Dukewm: (and everyone else! Dukewm had the most recent posting concerning this :)) In my opinion only 2 members of the O6 have truly been disclosed. Hurley announced it when being surrounded by police after the car chase and Sayid declared his affiliation to Mr. Avellino before shooting him at Seychelles. Kate and Jack have appeared off the island. Jack says he has a “golden ticket” and alludes that Kate has one as well. Jack visits Hurley and they discuss being noticed and sought after by the Press. This all certainly implies that Jack is one of the O6 (and Kate probably is too) but we haven’t heard that for sure. I’m inclined to think that they both probably are….but until I know for sure, I can only say that we know who two people of the O6 are, and we know of 5 people who have made it off the island. (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Ben)[/quote]

    Excellent point! Also, regarding the multiple posts about Michael or Desmond being the one of the boat–keep in mind that Ben said “man”, which could very well mean a term to through us off, as if may be a woman. Last thought, the gas masks found with the Freighters could have been a clue as to maybe another purge was planned that could have gone awray.

  307. DocH says:

    Some thoughts:

    1) We see R.G. on the bracelet of Naomi AND Elsa. The inscription is a personal message from a close friend. We have heard Regina on the radio/satphone to the freighter. Is Regina the R.G. on the bracelet? We don’t know the G. part of my assumption. Is Regina the daughter of Horace Goodspeed? She’d be a few years younger than Ben, but she’d at least be protected by Ben… a teen when Ben was a 20-something, but protected because of Ben’s allegiance to the younger females – prior to The Purge. Bens’ “man on the boat’ is a woman. Regina Goodspeed… loyal to him all these years, but… his infiltrator, off-island, amongst the powers that would reconquer or retake the island, following The Purge. She befriended Naomi and Elsa, knowing she had a greater mission at-hand, totally loyal to Ben.

    2) Time distortion: The rocket that arrived 31 minutes later than expected, will reveal tons od secrets about the special properties about the island. From the freighter, the rocket should have arrived about 27-28 minutes earlier. This suggests a time compression of about 10:1. That means that island time of 90+ days should equal about 900+ days of real-world time. That is 2.5 years versus 3 months. That explains why tall Walt returns 6″ inches taller (in puberty). Ben travels off-island undercover, for a few days on a mission, he ages normally then, but on-island he ages slowly… same goes for Richard Alpert. Have folks been searching for OA815 for 3 months, 9 days… or 2.5 years. The ‘timeline’ from the four new folks from the freighter (freighter tots?) may be a clue. Why was Daniel so distraught when he saw the wreckage on TV? Just happened? Happened long ago? Hasn’t happened yet? Frank the pilot? Went from international airline Captain to Caribbean helicopter tour pilot in just three months? Charlotte discovers desert Polar Bear by accident OR she knew where to look? Ghost-whisperer Miles? Speaks to the dead or has simple… been there – done that on a previous timeline?

  308. MissKim says:

    Excellent points about timeline distortion DocH. I am inclined to think that it has actually been a “longer time” off the island than the time “on the island”. Also, as far as the Boston Red Sox comment–didn’t the Red Sox finally beat some curse when they won the World Series? Why wouldn’t such an event be worthy of commenting on even several years down the road? It’s kind of like saying, “Did a man really walk on the moon?” Ok. It’s not as big of a deal a walking on the moon but it’s a significant part of history that occurred when Jack was missing. It wouldn’t seem strange for hime to ask such a thing. Frank’s reponse wasn’t unusual either. What is deceiving is if Frank is aware of any possible on/off island time differences. My hunch is some of the freighter tots have a hunch but aren’t sure of the specifics. How/Why weren’t there any lapses in the phone calls from the island to the freighter if there was a delay in the rocket thing from the freighter to the island? My guess is the phone signal bounces off a satelite or something so it is unaffected. (I’m not sure why or why not)

  309. RGS says:

    [quote comment="183130"]Some thoughts:

    2) Time distortion: The rocket that arrived 31 minutes later than expected, will reveal tons od secrets about the special properties about the island. From the freighter, the rocket should have arrived about 27-28 minutes earlier. This suggests a time compression of about 10:1. That means that island time of 90+ days should equal about 900+ days of real-world time. That is 2.5 years versus 3 months. That explains why tall Walt returns 6″ inches taller (in puberty). Ben travels off-island undercover, for a few days on a mission, he ages normally then, but on-island he ages slowly… same goes for Richard Alpert. Have folks been searching for OA815 for 3 months, 9 days… or 2.5 years. The ‘timeline’ from the four new folks from the freighter (freighter tots?) may be a clue. Why was Daniel so distraught when he saw the wreckage on TV? Just happened? Happened long ago? Hasn’t happened yet? Frank the pilot? Went from international airline Captain to Caribbean helicopter tour pilot in just three months? [/quote]

    No work tomorrow so I got all night, lol. My issues with time distortion theory.

    1) Ben & father were brought to the island, let’s say it was mid 60’s (I’m not good with cars) based on the VW van. Wikipedia says production began in 1950 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2#History but didn’t catch on in the US until the 60’s. Plus, I’m not sure but wasn’t radio playing music from the 60’s?

    2) Ben was around let’s say 10 when he talks to Alpert and expresses desire to leave the Initiative.

    3) Ben is let’s say 20 (though he appeared to be a little older) when he orchestrates the purge.

    4) That leaves 10 years of growing up on the island, or 120 months. There are 40 intervals of 3 months inside of 120 (120/3). 40x 2.5 years would be 100 years in outside world time.

    5) Even if the VW is a 1950 model brand new, and they were brought there in the 50’s (I doubt because of the scenery but I can’t be 100%) that would mean it is year 2050 in the outside world.

    I don’t know if your post was intended to be funny, but the way you wrote about the pilot had me literally lol.

  310. Found says:

    I Believe that the time distortion was kept under control by the button pressing. The time shift has only been happening since then. (And happened before it was instituted… explains why the original “Hostels” from the Black Rock have seamed to not age). The fact that they are doing experiments to see what the differential is proves it is a recent thing. If it was always happening it would have already been quantified by Dharma/The Others etc.

  311. MissKim says:

    [quote comment="183189"]I Believe that the time distortion was kept under control by the button pressing. The time shift has only been happening since then. (And happened before it was instituted… explains why the original “Hostels” from the Black Rock have seamed to not age). The fact that they are doing experiments to see what the differential is proves it is a recent thing. If it was always happening it would have already been quantified by Dharma/The Others etc.[/quote]

    YES YES YES!

  312. RGS says:

    [quote comment="183189"]I Believe that the time distortion was kept under control by the button pressing. The time shift has only been happening since then. (And happened before it was instituted… explains why the original “Hostels” from the Black Rock have seamed to not age). The fact that they are doing experiments to see what the differential is proves it is a recent thing. If it was always happening it would have already been quantified by Dharma/The Others etc.[/quote]

    If the time differential was a recent thing, why would they think that they needed to do an experiment to understand it, they wouldn’t know it was a problem or issue because it just started happening. Who would have told them that it was a potential issue? Also when they are on the phone talking to each other, Regina(?) says, “that’s weird” and Farrady says, “that’s REALLY weird,” when the payload doesn’t arrive at the time the instruments on the ship say it did.

    I have to check a few things, but I hope to have another post with more over-analysis of this damned crazy show!

  313. skweez says:

    Deputy Dawg

    Thanks for the info.!!!

  314. Found says:

    The fact that they did the experiment with clocks shows at least that they suspected a time differential problem. If it wasn’t a recent problem then we are back to RGS’s insights into how far into the future the outside world would have to be. They would know it was a problem because there has been a constant interaction with the outside world and the Island, and there has only been communication problems since the “hatch explosion”. I think that they were surprised because the differential was a lot worse than they suspected.

  315. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”183207
    If the time differential was a recent thing, why would they think that they needed to do an experiment to understand it, they wouldn’t know it was a problem or issue because it just started happening. Who would have told them that it was a potential issue? Also when they are on the phone talking to each other, Regina(?) says, “that’s weird” and Farrady says, “that’s REALLY weird,” when the payload doesn’t arrive at the time the instruments on the ship say it did.

    I have to check a few things, but I hope to have another post with more over-analysis of this damned crazy show![/quote]

    If the freighter folk are Dharma as some have suggested then they know the butten was being pushed to equalize time and therefore could know it is now a problem.

    If time has always been different then perhaps Ben went off island sometime while growing up. Not likely but possible.

  316. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="183214"][quote comment=”183207
    If the time differential was a recent thing, why would they think that they needed to do an experiment to understand it, they wouldn’t know it was a problem or issue because it just started happening. Who would have told them that it was a potential issue? Also when they are on the phone talking to each other, Regina(?) says, “that’s weird” and Farrady says, “that’s REALLY weird,” when the payload doesn’t arrive at the time the instruments on the ship say it did.

    I have to check a few things, but I hope to have another post with more over-analysis of this damned crazy show![/quote]

    quote]If the freighter folk are Dharma as some have suggested then they know the butten was being pushed to equalize time and therefore could know it is now a problem.

    If time has always been different then perhaps Ben went off island sometime while growing up. Not likely but possible.[/

  317. Circus Mom says:

    I’m still having problems with the quotes.

  318. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="183189"]I Believe that the time distortion was kept under control by the button pressing. The time shift has only been happening since then. (And happened before it was instituted… explains why the original “Hostels” from the Black Rock have seamed to not age). The fact that they are doing experiments to see what the differential is proves it is a recent thing. If it was always happening it would have already been quantified by Dharma/The Others etc.[/quote]
    Maybe the time difference is like a car- speeding up slowly day by day. Like on day one after the button stopped being pushed the time difference between the island and the world was off by 1 minute, on day two it was off by 2 minutes, etc.

  319. Circus Mom says:

    Miraks This is a concept that has been floating around in my head for awhile. I just couldn’t bring it together coheasivly. I’m not sure what that dose to all the other input, like Richard not aging, but I’d love to hear more thoughts on this.

  320. Dennis Gore says:

    What if Syaid’s story is not a flashback but a flash forward? That would change things right?

  321. RGS says:

    [quote comment="183212"]The fact that they did the experiment with clocks shows at least that they suspected a time differential problem. If it wasn’t a recent problem then we are back to RGS’s insights into how far into the future the outside world would have to be. They would know it was a problem because there has been a constant interaction with the outside world and the Island, and there has only been communication problems since the “hatch explosion”. I think that they were surprised because the differential was a lot worse than they suspected.[/quote]

    I can buy the surprise at the differential part. I’m having trouble with the constant connection between Freighters and… who on the island?

    Circus, if Freightors are Dharma who have they been interacting with, since those people were killed well b4 the plane crash?

    If it just started happening, it seems like it would a huge storyline separate and apart from getting folks home. (Minor gripe).

    But it seems that the underlying assumption is that Dharma arrived on this strange island. Built hatches and barracks and began experiments. Among their constructions, they intentionally created a device that affected time and necessitated a button being pushed every Nth minutes.

    I’m going to try to look into the episode(s) where Ben and Jack are talking as detainor/detainee, to see if Ben gives anymore clues as to an apparent time shift, which I don’t even think he would fully understand since it would have just started happening.

  322. RGS says:

    [quote comment="183219"][quote comment="183189"]I Believe that the time distortion was kept under control by the button pressing. The time shift has only been happening since then. (And happened before it was instituted… explains why the original “Hostels” from the Black Rock have seamed to not age). The fact that they are doing experiments to see what the differential is proves it is a recent thing. If it was always happening it would have already been quantified by Dharma/The Others etc.[/quote]
    Maybe the time difference is like a car- speeding up slowly day by day. Like on day one after the button stopped being pushed the time difference between the island and the world was off by 1 minute, on day two it was off by 2 minutes, etc.[/quote]

    I guess I’m kinda late to this particular blog, because I haven’t seen any recent posts that talk about the links to the show via the different websites created for viral marketing purposes.

    I can now stomach the time travelling aspect that the show is leaning toward. While trying to find one of those episodes I mentioned earlier, I re-watched the Lockdown episode. In that episode, Sayid and co., find the balloon that Ben said he came in on. The screencap on the balloon captured with Widmore Laboratories logo.

    We know Widmore Labs owns Dharma, infinity (time reference) logo and all. On the widmorelaboratories.com website there are some links, one being a “Magnus Hanso” link which takes you to a story about the mysterious ‘Black Rock’ ship. On that page it lists the members of the ship, among them, Richard Alpert, Miles Strom, Daniel Farraday, a couple of “Heroes” characters (ok I’m exposing myself as a uber geek but really I’m not…seriously), Daniel Linderman (a powerful Widmore type character with mysterious intentions) and Adam Monroe (Adam Monroe is a character that is immortal and never ages).

    Then on the Contact Us page, it lists 6 contacts, all 6 were members of the Black Rock.

    There’s a ton of other crap (they make human containment devices? pregnancy tests, etc.) and red herrings I’m sure, but I couldnt go through it because I have a life…had a life, until “Lost” and you crazies started posting these theories. Please don’t tempt me to make a post tomorrow. I will try to sit back and enjoy the ride.

    I don’t even know how I became a crazed blogger/poster on here.

  323. Me & Suzie says:

    So my thoughts follow this line:

    If Sayid says he will sell his soul before he trusts Ben, something has happened for him to trust Ben, and that probably happens from his adventure on the freighter.

    I think all 4 of these new folks are probably the kids of Dharma folks who were originally on the island when Ben whacked them all. Obviously the reason Ben blocked the beacon was to keep the Dharma folks from coming back and kicking his ass for ruining their project. And when Charlie turned it off, they found him.

    I think that Ben telling Sayid that it is Good that “someone” knows that Sayid is after them is probably the continuation of the Ben vs original Dhama folks fight off mystery island. Clearly the matter between Ben and them was not resolved. Unless this is a setup for the writers for a brand new show starring Ben at 2010 finale.

    That everyone knew Desmond’s gf’s last name but not her first name, and then looked at each other a tad suprised, suggests that they knew the name, and were perhaps working for her father, but didn’t know about the daughter.

    And finally, the time thing suggests one of the problems of getting back to the island. Perhaps one of the reasons Jack can’t get back and keeps hoping that an accident will put him back there. (or maybe the main reason).

    It is amazingly clear that there are at least 15 ways this story can go. But the most amazing thing is seeing Sayid get shot. That single frame was second only to Ana-Lucia getting popped. Michelle, some of us really miss you girl.

    Me & Suzie

  324. Circus Mom says:

    OK all, I’m new to this. Is the comment by RGS concidered a spoiler of disallowed information in some way.

    It also seems unoffical and contrived. Especially with the Hero’s references.

  325. meathead says:

    A thought….

    Kate is not one of the Oceanic 6. She comes to see Jack from the island itself.

    Maybe too wild.

  326. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="183043"]Lots of great theories being posted. Keep ‘em coming!
    Dukewm: (and everyone else! Dukewm had the most recent posting concerning this :)) In my opinion only 2 members of the O6 have truly been disclosed. Hurley announced it when being surrounded by police after the car chase and Sayid declared his affiliation to Mr. Avellino before shooting him at Seychelles. Kate and Jack have appeared off the island. Jack says he has a “golden ticket” and alludes that Kate has one as well. Jack visits Hurley and they discuss being noticed and sought after by the Press. This all certainly implies that Jack is one of the O6 (and Kate probably is too) but we haven’t heard that for sure. I’m inclined to think that they both probably are….but until I know for sure, I can only say that we know who two people of the O6 are, and we know of 5 people who have made it off the island. (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Ben)[/quote]
    Sayid told the golf economist just before he shot him that he was one of the O6. So thats 3 confirmed.

  327. nakira says:

    Omg, over the weekend 100 more posts, so much on Monday to do, LOL.

    Anyways, thanks LJ for clearing that up.

    Laura, the magnetic properties also make sense and how they can mess up instruments. interesting.

    Lockchicka- yeah Shannon does learn to be better on the island, but then she dies and his heart is broken, no fault of hers though

    I watched the episode over again yesterday- I hate that the show comes on at 8 when i have to put my kid to bed- and now I have a new idea about similar bracelets. This top person on the bad list maybe gives his workers all the same bracelet,like Naomi and Elsa with the inscription that he’ll/she’ll be “with them” as in protecting him, kinda as a identifier to other people. We don’t see Sayid take Elsa’s bracelet so makes me think why there distrubuted to the members who work for RG (kinda like in epic movies).

    Apparently Mr. Avellino is Italian? ‘eccelente”? Dont know what that connection is.

    Can’t wait til Thursday. I started watching it with closed caption since it reveals what exactly they’re saying so I won’t misconstrue anything.

  328. Toeknee says:

    vsn (#218): Hurley’s friend was Lenny

    DocH (#231): How about R.G. = Regina Goodwin, daughter of the late Other? She’s probably too old to be his daughter though.

    TheoryNut (#252): re: Sun being pregnant, Juliet’s theory is if women get pregnant on the island (as Sun did), they will die. Juliet thought that if a woman who got pregnant on the island leaves the island, perhaps that woman will survive. So it would be in Sun’s best interest to leave the island.

    Stan (#253): is Cane really cancelled?! That would be awesome! I’ve been wishing and hoping and praying for this to happen – we need Nestor Campbell to come back and play Alpert!

    dukewm (#291, #6): When Ben showed Juliet the video of her sister and nephew, the newspaper didn’t have a headline of the crash. The newspaper’s date was shown, to supposedly “prove” what the date of the video was.

    Tim (#303): I’m coming around to this way of thinking too. I can’t make sense of most of what happens on the island, so I’ll stop trying to. Hopefully the explanation will have its basis closer to nonfiction than fiction.

    (#307) – I’m glad to see “The Lost Blog” is not immune to spam :)

    DocH (#308, #1) – We did not see R.G. on Elsa’s bracelet. We only saw her bracelet while it was on her arm.

    MissKim (#309) – I had a different take on the Red Sox comment, basically wondering if Frank thought Jack was talking about the 2007 World Series. I wrote more about this back in comment #210.

    Dennis Gore (#321) – I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to say, but Sayid’s off-island scenes were definitely a flash forward – he talked about being one of the Oceanic 6.

    Circus Mom (#325) – I don’t think the info that RGS mentioned in comment #323 is considered a spoiler. I think Damon and Carlton have said info from the Lost Experience and find815.com games can be considered as part of the whole story, it just deals with aspects of the story they didn’t have time to get into on the TV show. So most of that info won’t ever appear on the show, and not knowing about it won’t deter from your enjoyment of the show, but it can be used to enhance your understanding of some parts of the show (like the numbers).

    roses12 (#327): MissKim is saying that Hurley and Sayid are the two confirmed members of the O6. Noone else has actually said that they are one of the O6 (not even Jack or Kate, although like MissKim said, it’s implied that Jack is).

  329. Christina says:

    I think the aforementioned widmorelaboratories.com is way unofficial, and should be taken with a grain of salt…I wouldn’t make any assumptions that anything on that website has anything to do with the official Lost info out there. So is it a spoiler? Probably not, since I don’t think it has anything to do with Lost- read the disclaimer at the bottom of their page. Unofficial? Probably.

  330. LostinSev says:

    Some have said that the Freighter tots work for Dharma, this may be possible since a helo is still dropping Dharma supplies on the island.

  331. Tina says:

    [quote comment="183130"]Some thoughts:

    1) We see R.G. on the bracelet of Naomi AND Elsa. The inscription is a personal message from a close friend. We have heard Regina on the radio/satphone to the freighter. Is Regina the R.G. on the bracelet? We don’t know the G. part of my assumption. Is Regina the daughter of Horace Goodspeed? She’d be a few years younger than Ben, but she’d at least be protected by Ben… a teen when Ben was a 20-something, but protected because of Ben’s allegiance to the younger females – prior to The Purge. Bens’ “man on the boat’ is a woman. Regina Goodspeed… loyal to him all these years, but… his infiltrator, off-island, amongst the powers that would reconquer or retake the island, following The Purge. She befriended Naomi and Elsa, knowing she had a greater mission at-hand, totally loyal to Ben.

    [quote]

    No we don’t see RG on BOTH bracelets! I’ve already posted the link to the screen shots on Dark UFO’s blog of this earlier in the thread! The bracelets are very different from one another aesthetically. Their similaries and that they appear silver in color & appear to be cuffs. Other than that, they are VERY different. AND we NEVER see anything written inside of outside of Elsa’s.

  332. Tina says:

    The quoting thing is getting screwy again and we used to be able to edit out posts…grr..

    Response to DocH on bracelets:

    No we don’t see RG on BOTH bracelets! I’ve already posted the link to the screen shots on Dark UFO’s blog of this earlier in the thread! The bracelets are very different from one another aesthetically. Their similaries and that they appear silver in color & appear to be cuffs. Other than that, they are VERY different. AND we NEVER see anything written inside of outside of Elsa’s.

  333. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="182323"]Lost Chicka,from Wikipedia:

    A trivalent metallic rare earth element, holmium has the highest magnetic moment (10.6µB) of any naturally-occurring element and possesses other unusual magnetic properties. When combined with yttrium, it forms highly magnetic compounds.

    There are references to fertility and magnetism research relating to holmium. The island is a big holmium deposit. Ho-ho’s, Jack and Hurley playing horse and getting to “HO.”
    [/quote]
    This is pretty intriguing, and it wouldn’t surprise me too much if it is tied into some of the mysteries of the island. Another HO reference from The Beginning of the End episode: This photo which shows a model fo the letters H and O: http://www.docarzt.com/lost-ho-ho.jpg

    Also, from one of the commenters on that site (docarzt.com), H is the 8th letter, and O is the 15th letter.

  334. DocH says:

    Tina / Toeknee – thnx. I took what some one blogged at face value and did not check my facts.

  335. dukewm says:

    lost chicka: I know a couple of my “observations are from previous threads. It’s almost impossible to NOT refer back to earlier “developments” the way everything ties together. We all (including me) should just refer back to earlier clues when something in the current episode is RELEVANT to the explanation (or vice-versa).

    RGS: nice research/insight on the Black Rock

    toeknee: yeah it’s there. Even though Ben points out the date to Jules verbally, the headline reports the 815 crash with a picture of a jetliner on the front page. And he led her to Patchy’s Station right after the plane broke up over their heads. A Time warp similar to Franks rocket experiment. The 815 crash must have taken at LEAST enough hours to get through the “incoming portal” for a newspaper in Miami (?) to get the news and get it produced/printed. The newspaper was the clue . . . the rocket was the proof.

  336. Bobola says:

    Circus Mom;
    All parents are not alike; not all of them would commit 2 ruthless murders of innocent people just for the chance…the CHANCE… that they might get their boy back like Michael did…so quit this idea that he did something noble. Consider that he killed your child to “save” his.
    Plus, he didn’t know that any harm would come to his son and could have asked his friends for help. Instead he did what any slime bag would do; he betrayed his and killed his side to help what looks like the bad guys.
    People who think that’s OK creep me out.
    Michael will pay, I hope.

    I can’t believe the people on the Chopper are going to be dumb enough to take a dead body back with them.
    The damn chopper has already taken a hit from the storm…and who knows what will be the reaction from the ship’s crew? Sayeed is making bad choices lately.
    No wonder he ends up with Ben?

    I want Miles on that island permanently; he’s a wild card. Maybe Patchy will show up and get into it with Miles later. Patchy might still be alive.
    Takes a licking; keeps on blinking.

  337. dukewm says:

    Looks like Dharma was into HO research

  338. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="183527"]
    toeknee: yeah it’s there. Even though Ben points out the date to Jules verbally, the headline reports the 815 crash with a picture of a jetliner on the front page. And he led her to Patchy’s Station right after the plane broke up over their heads. A Time warp similar to Franks rocket experiment. The 815 crash must have taken at LEAST enough hours to get through the “incoming portal” for a newspaper in Miami (?) to get the news and get it produced/printed. The newspaper was the clue . . . the rocket was the proof.[/quote]
    Well, I didn’t see it on this screencap:
    http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2007/04/3x16TheMiamiJournal.php
    And I don’t recall that being discussed last year. But that doesn’t mean you’re wrong. Either way, I agree that there may be some time discrepancy on and off the island. It’s possible the discrepancy is several days, or weeks, or months, or years. And whoever is off-island can get his hands on a newspaper from any date that is needed.

  339. DocH says:

    ToeKnee wrote:

    DocH (#231): How about R.G. = Regina Goodwin, daughter of the late Other? She’s probably too old to be his daughter though.

    What I really wrote:

    DocH, posted 2 days, 13 hours ago –
    R.G. on the bracelet – Regina Goodspeed. Horace Goodspeeds daughter. A few years younger than Ben, survived the Purge, protected by Ben – currently Bens’ “Man” on the boat.

    [ We only saw Horace; when Ben was born, when Ben arrived on the island and when Ben purged him. Who is to say he (Goodspeed) doesn't have a daughter on the island too. (Not Goodwin). ]

  340. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="183533"]ToeKnee wrote:

    DocH (#231): How about R.G. = Regina Goodwin, daughter of the late Other? She’s probably too old to be his daughter though.

    What I really wrote:

    DocH, posted 2 days, 13 hours ago –
    R.G. on the bracelet – Regina Goodspeed. Horace Goodspeeds daughter. A few years younger than Ben, survived the Purge, protected by Ben – currently Bens’ “Man” on the boat.

    [ We only saw Horace; when Ben was born, when Ben arrived on the island and when Ben purged him. Who is to say he (Goodspeed) doesn't have a daughter on the island too. (Not Goodwin). ][/quote]
    I knew what you wrote, I think that’s a possibility.

    But in my comment, I wasn’t quoting you, I was offering up another option, that R.G is Regina Goodwin.

  341. Rita says:

    toeknee is right, it DOES seem that anyone off island can get a newspaper for any date they want, or any information for that matter. This is what gives the “others” a sort of god-like omniscience about the losties histories. I have thought that most of the info they have on the losties seems like public record stuff (where they lived, who they married, etc.) but not necessarily all of it. The time shift theories would explain why they could get info “so fast” (for island time). It may have been days, months, years, later in off island time. Good theories!

  342. DocH says:

    TK: Got it (now) thnxs again. [I am here to learn].
    ________________________
    Some Levity:
    “Most disturbing imagery of the episode”.

    Sawyer heading for “The Barracks”… wanting to “play and/or set-up house”… has become quite the avid reader since the crash… tired of being filthy… needs beer on a frequent and recurring basis… embarassed by his “ladies” reading glasses.

    Now the image – Sawyer with a military haircut, clean shaven, wearing Bens’ sweater vest, Bens’ button-down shirt & bowtie, wearing horn-rimmed glasses, sipping a beer and calling to order the Barracks Book-of-the-Month Club.

    Sorry ladies! This will no doubtedly be in the series finale.

  343. Jen says:

    [quote comment="182041"]Just wondering if anyone noticed that the Season 4 poster shows a break in the clouds and subtle light shining down on the left 6. Could it be the Oceanic 6? Holds true so far. Can’t tell who the guy on the far left is though.[/quote]

    The guy on the far left is Ben

  344. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="183528"]Circus Mom;
    All parents are not alike; not all of them would commit 2 ruthless murders of innocent people just for the chance…the CHANCE… that they might get their boy back like Michael did…so quit this idea that he did something noble. Consider that he killed your child to “save” his.
    Plus, he didn’t know that any harm would come to his son and could have asked his friends for help. Instead he did what any slime bag would do; he betrayed his and killed his side to help what looks like the bad guys.
    People who think that’s OK creep me out.
    Michael will pay, I hope.

    quote]

    My point is, how and why are the murders Michael committed any worse than the murders and attempted murders all the other losties committed. I never said Michael is noble.

    Kate, Killed her father/stepfather. Shot someone during a felony (robbing the bank).

    Sawyer, Killed the man in Australia he thought was the con man, shot the marchall (that one OK), Killed Lockes father, shot Tom, and how many others?

    Locke, caused Boone’s death, killed Naomi.

    Sayed killed and tortured how many?

    Charlie killed Ethan in revenge.

    Anna Lucia shot Shannon.

    Jin, Sayed and Bernard killed 7 others.

    Hurley recks up 2 others.

    Desmond kills (we think) patchy.

    Jack, our “good” guy manages not to have a part in killing untill getting off the island is emmenent. They are on the way to the radio tower to call for the boat when he decides he has had it. Sets up trap to kill 10 others and point a gun at Locke and pulls the trigger on the way to the beach to get picked up.

    I just don’t see why Michael is “pure evil” in this good company.

    And why ARE there so many guns on the island?

  345. Circus Mom says:

    A couple of thoughts and observations on the bracelets.

    The two are different.

    Sayed reads the inscription that we see on the outside of Naomi’s bracelet, “N, I’ll always be with you, RG” and takes it with him. He appears to be reading something on the inside while walking to the barracks.

    When Elsa dies he touches her bracelet but dosn’t remove it. Perhaps the (different) silver bracelet just reminded him of Naomi. He would have certanly noticed if Elsa was wearing the same bracelet long before killing her.

    What if Mr. A on the golfcourse is the Economist and the flash forwards are not in order, as Jacks wern’t. Remember, at the end at the vet’s office Sayed said they would know he was coming and ben said good.

  346. Circus Mom says:

    I forgot, Des killed Kelvin too

  347. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="183437"][quote comment="183043"]Lots of great theories being posted. Keep ‘em coming!
    Dukewm: (and everyone else! Dukewm had the most recent posting concerning this :)) In my opinion only 2 members of the O6 have truly been disclosed. Hurley announced it when being surrounded by police after the car chase and Sayid declared his affiliation to Mr. Avellino before shooting him at Seychelles. Kate and Jack have appeared off the island. Jack says he has a “golden ticket” and alludes that Kate has one as well. Jack visits Hurley and they discuss being noticed and sought after by the Press. This all certainly implies that Jack is one of the O6 (and Kate probably is too) but we haven’t heard that for sure. I’m inclined to think that they both probably are….but until I know for sure, I can only say that we know who two people of the O6 are, and we know of 5 people who have made it off the island. (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Ben)[/quote]
    Sayid told the golf economist just before he shot him that he was one of the O6. So thats 3 confirmed.[/quote]

    No. It’s 2 confirmed as part of the O6: Hurley and Sayid. See above.

  348. Jen says:

    [quote comment="182201"]imagining michael’s guilt leaving his friends behind, ben (or at least someone working for ben) coerces michael to be a spy on the freight, to do something good for his friends…

    That sounds crazy to me; Michael don’t care anything about anyone ‘cept his own pathetic self. Why not just let him be the bad guy he is?; the writers just made him a cold stone killer, with a son, sniff, sniff.[/quote]

    I really don’t think that Michael is a “bad guy” You have to keep in mind the circumstances that led to what he did. He had to get his son back. For anyone who has children, I think they can agree that they would do ANYTHING for their child and if that means murder than so be it.

  349. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="183269"][quote comment="183219"][quote comment="183189"]I Believe that the time distortion was kept under control by the button pressing. The time shift has only been happening since then. (And happened before it was instituted… explains why the original “Hostels” from the Black Rock have seamed to not age). The fact that they are doing experiments to see what the differential is proves it is a recent thing. If it was always happening it would have already been quantified by Dharma/The Others etc.[/quote]
    Maybe the time difference is like a car- speeding up slowly day by day. Like on day one after the button stopped being pushed the time difference between the island and the world was off by 1 minute, on day two it was off by 2 minutes, etc.[/quote]

    I guess I’m kinda late to this particular blog, because I haven’t seen any recent posts that talk about the links to the show via the different websites created for viral marketing purposes.

    I can now stomach the time travelling aspect that the show is leaning toward. While trying to find one of those episodes I mentioned earlier, I re-watched the Lockdown episode. In that episode, Sayid and co., find the balloon that Ben said he came in on. The screencap on the balloon captured with Widmore Laboratories logo.

    We know Widmore Labs owns Dharma, infinity (time reference) logo and all. On the widmorelaboratories.com website there are some links, one being a “Magnus Hanso” link which takes you to a story about the mysterious ‘Black Rock’ ship. On that page it lists the members of the ship, among them, Richard Alpert, Miles Strom, Daniel Farraday, a couple of “Heroes” characters (ok I’m exposing myself as a uber geek but really I’m not…seriously), Daniel Linderman (a powerful Widmore type character with mysterious intentions) and Adam Monroe (Adam Monroe is a character that is immortal and never ages).

    Then on the Contact Us page, it lists 6 contacts, all 6 were members of the Black Rock.

    There’s a ton of other crap (they make human containment devices? pregnancy tests, etc.) and red herrings I’m sure, but I couldnt go through it because I have a life…had a life, until “Lost” and you crazies started posting these theories. Please don’t tempt me to make a post tomorrow. I will try to sit back and enjoy the ride.

    [/quote]

    Dude. Excellent. I checked the Widmore Lab website and saw the names listed on the “Magnus Hanso” Link. No idea about when the webpage was created, but if it was prior to this season, it seems like a pretty big deal.

  350. Miss Kim says:

    My post right above this one was posted as a quote and reply, which I’m not so great at doing. Read through the whole thing–I think that the widmore labs/”Mangus Hanso” link listing the crew of the Black Rock could be an important clue if the webpage is for real and was up and running prior to the start of the new season.

  351. Jen says:

    [quote comment="182555"]Oh and yes….remember when people commented last year about how the island is a healing place (no wheelchair for locke, no cancer for rose) and yet Ben got the tumor….now we realize that Ben HAS been going back and forth, hence the tumor…not sure why he couldn’t have surgery off the island, however, unless he knew something about healing powers on the island (after back surgery) vs. healing powers off the island…
    And, obviously, Ben did not let others know he was going back and forth…(hidden closet and all)…[/quote]

    I think one reason Ben may not have been able to have surgery off island is due to the comment Juliet made about 20-something women with 70-something uteruses. Don’t quote me on that, she said something to that effect. I think it’s plausible that Ben could not have surgery off-island due the time differences between the island and the real world. His organs would have resembled that of an old man or a child (depending on how island time relates to real time)

  352. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="183554"]My post right above this one was posted as a quote and reply, which I’m not so great at doing. Read through the whole thing–I think that the widmore labs/”Mangus Hanso” link listing the crew of the Black Rock could be an important clue if the webpage is for real and was up and running prior to the start of the new season.[/quote]
    If my memory serves. We hammered (pun intended) out this stuff between season 1 and 2 during the TLE phase on this site. It wouldn’t hurt for review though. lostpedia.com is the a great place to find out more.

  353. Miss Kim says:

    Hmmmmm. It seems like I need to keep in mind that there is a difference between a “real” website and an “imitation” website. I guess that the Black Rock’s crew list probably isn’t for real. Silly me. Oh well. I was pretty excited for about 10 minutes or so !!! ;)

  354. Tim says:

    So why would Dharma continue with the food drops if all of their people had been killed or changed sides?
    Would it make sense to feed the people who killed your company’s people?
    Is it possible that the Ben and his people are still with Dharma and is lying about who he killed?

  355. TheoryNut says:

    Here’s a lame theory… could it be “Patchy” on the boat? He seems to keep resurrecting on the island? Just a thought…can’t wait til Thursday.

  356. Miss Kim says:

    Thanks Hammer…..I appreciate your kindness and helpfulness. I’m sure I speak for many of the “newbies” on this site when I say that we all appreciate you “old timers” keeping us up to speed with past season’s posts, etc. I am really impressed with the variety of theories on this site. I was feeling pretty “lost” on the area of real/imitation websites and found lostpedia helpful. Thanks for your help. :)

  357. Suze says:

    I don’t think this has been covered but isn’t there a difference between the different color passports that ben has in his secret room? I think that some of those colors represent military… looking for a screen cap now.

  358. Hammer says:

    Miss Kim, that’s what you’ll get from folks like ToeKnee, DocH, Lesley and few others that I haven’t seen much of this season (probabally because last season we would get 400+ post of mostly good debate instead of 300+ of mostly silliness and repeats.

  359. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    [quote comment="183555"][quote comment="182555"]Oh and yes….remember when people commented last year about how the island is a healing place (no wheelchair for locke, no cancer for rose) and yet Ben got the tumor….now we realize that Ben HAS been going back and forth, hence the tumor…not sure why he couldn’t have surgery off the island, however, unless he knew something about healing powers on the island (after back surgery) vs. healing powers off the island…
    And, obviously, Ben did not let others know he was going back and forth…(hidden closet and all)…[/quote]

    I think one reason Ben may not have been able to have surgery off island is due to the comment Juliet made about 20-something women with 70-something uteruses. Don’t quote me on that, she said something to that effect. I think it’s plausible that Ben could not have surgery off-island due the time differences between the island and the real world. His organs would have resembled that of an old man or a child (depending on how island time relates to real time)[/quote]

    Wouldn’t Jack have noticed this when he did surgery on Ben? How about this theory: Ben wanted to show the rest of the ‘Others’ that he was the chosen one. If the island heals him then they believe. Of course, with this theory you have to believe that Juliette and a few others were in on it with Ben. That’s a tough one for me.

  360. Hammer says:

    IMO, Ben’s voice didn’t morph from Christian’s. The more I listen, the more it just sounds like the actor pushing his voice to hide it from the viewers.

    Also, I’m a little troubled that we are supposed to believe that Sawyer is holding Kate as “prisoner”, but she’s the one with the gun…through out the whole scene…

  361. DocH says:

    [quote comment="183567"]… that’s what you’ll get from folks like ToeKnee, DocH, Lesley and few others that I haven’t seen much of this season (probabally because last season we would get 400+ post of mostly good debate instead of 300+ of mostly silliness and repeats.
    [/quote]

    que? adios.

  362. Hammer says:

    DocH…I hope I didn’t confuse. I was trying to tell Miss Kim that vets like you and I are very willing help out. The other comment was an observation that other vets haven’t been seen much this season…

  363. Rita says:

    [quote comment="183579"][quote comment="183567"]… that’s what you’ll get from folks like ToeKnee, DocH, Lesley and few others that I haven’t seen much of this season (probabally because last season we would get 400+ post of mostly good debate instead of 300+ of mostly silliness and repeats.
    [/quote]

    que? adios.[/quote]
    I agree with DocH. Hammer, so what if there are a few repeats? I have really enjoyed the posts and thoughts people are putting out there. Maybe you would be happier with another site.

  364. dukewm says:

    Toeknee (#338): sure anybody can get an old newspaper but NOBODY can get a newspaper that reports “news” that just happened minutes ago.

  365. Hammer says:

    Rita…nice try, I said that many other vets are absent…I’m not leaving ’cause of the repeats…but it’s kind of in the rules so I commented on it. Should everybody who thinks that the rules should be followed find a new site? I can’t comment on that?

  366. dukewm says:

    Don’t know about everyone else, but I’m glad we’re down to 300-400 posts/week. 700-800 was a little much to keep up with and if EVERYBODY would just not repeat it would be WAY better.

    btw: I’m NOT the “Rules Police”

  367. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="183586"]Don’t know about everyone else, but I’m glad we’re down to 300-400 posts/week. 700-800 was a little much to keep up with and if EVERYBODY would just not repeat it would be WAY better.

    btw: I’m NOT the “Rules Police”[/quote]
    Uh oh, maybe you and I should both find another site, repeats are just apparently just fine.
    :)

  368. DocH says:

    Okay, sorry all. I was confused. Hammer and ToeKnee are the website standards here as far as fairness, new theory, etc…. When either says something authoritatively, I accept what they say most (99%) of the time… until I feel I can prove otherwise.

    Good call on the repeat issue. Way too many “I didn’t read the entire blog, but I just want to say…” this season. If you want to reiterate something, BUT, put a new theoretical spin (with fresh data) on an old thought – great! Repeat away.

    Another pet peeve. Quoting. Pare down the quote to the particular thought/section that you want to comment on. One paragraph you take exception too is easier for me to digest than me trying to figure out which of five original paragraphs you are talking about.

    I don’t mean to bitch, and I am definitely not the cyber sheriff here. It just makes for more “efficient” reading, i.e. me understanding your train of thought. I want to learn… I want to understand… make it easier for me. And I’ve only been here a year. I only comment at two other blogs. I used to read 9 other webblogs regularly on LOST, last season. What I have noticed is that most of those other blogs have dried-up or wasted away, and they used to be good. The pond is getting smaller. Us guppies have to make sure we don’t consume one another in the process. Good to see fresh voices – do your homework – I know I need too – weekly.

    [[ This site has also lost many familiar, very smart, voices - yet it thrives - cheers! ]]

  369. lost chicka says:

    i just thought of this, why wouldn’t frank be curious about how jack knew the red sox won? he was gone when it happened. hmmmm….

    309: 1) it was orchestra like music (if i remember right).

    so the button could have been to: a) save the world, b) keep the magnets under control, c) keep the island “invisible”, d) keep the time shift from happening, e) all of the above, f) some of the above.

    if it was the year 2050 off the island then they would be wearing shiny metalic suits, have pointed ears, be ruled by apes or aliens, and have space ships…….if there’s a time shift (it could be magnets making the clock and rocket go wacky) i don’t think it would be that big, maybe 2008 off island but not 2050…..miraks i like your idea about how it could work.

    322: i don’t know how i did either. i think one night after i watched lost i need to talk to someone about it but there was no one who would stay up till 5 am to talk about it with, so i googled lost blogs, and now here i am a crazed/addicted blogger/poster on here…..anyways, that’s really cool. richard alpert, miles strom and daniel farraday were on the black rock????? hhhhh

    circus mom: all depends on what you consider a spoiler. i say no more than the finding 815 website, besides who said it was even true? i don’t think so. besides with the heros reference i don’t know how to true it would be.

    toeknee: how kind of you to pray every night that hundreds of people get fired because cane gets canceled! ;) lol. what if the date was shown to “prove” that the date was the same then, and them after the hatch implosion it’s changed…

    we need like a quoting tutorial on here….in today’s lesson how to quote AND reply in one, that’s right ladies and gentlemen, one post. :)

    what is funny is that no matter how much everybody knows ben and the others are liars, they are always trusting them! michael trusted that he could get his boy back, sayid trusts that they won’t hurt his friends, jack trusted that he would get off the island if he did surgery, locke trusted that he would get to see jacob if he got his dad killed, juliet trusted that they would take her off the island too.

    bobola: what bad choices did sayid make? trying to keep his friends alive? giving a body back to a family? takes a licking; keeps on blinking – nice.

    docH (342): thankyou for the disturbing image. he will NOT look like that at the end. he won’t, he won’t, he won’t!!!!!

    losties killing people:
    michael killed 2 people for no reason other than to get his annoying kid back when hurley was in love with one of them and the other had finally come full circle it seemed.
    kate did some community service blowing up her father who beat up her mom all the time and shooting the guy helping with the robbery.
    sawyer: is a bad@$$ and can therefore shoot anybody he wants to. besides mr. friendly wasn’t really that friendly. and locke’s father wasn’t very nice – he ruined sawyer’s life and locke’s and how many others.
    locke: didn’t cause boone’s death, boone chose to climb into the plane. naomi’s was a little uncalled for, but i didn’t like her.
    sayid: he had to or else they’d do the same thing to his family. sawyer wasn’t right, and ben deserved it with all his bs.
    charlie: shouldn’t have killed ethan, but what would you do?
    anna lucia: shot shannon because she thought she was someone coming to hurt her and the tailies and jin and sawyer.
    jin, sayid, and bernard and hurley killed those others at the finale to protect the losties. besides sayid and hurley get bonus points for style.
    jack: let sayid torture sawyer, let jin, sayid and bernard kill the others, and attempted to kill locke.
    des: killed kelvin. well, kelvin stole his boat and is the reason why sayid can torture people.
    on island it’s war too. soldiers don’t come back from war with being charged for murder.

    maybe sayid is just killing everybody with those bracelets. if they get them from their employer, and they’re all on the list, it makes sense.

  370. Rita says:

    [quote comment="183584"]Rita…nice try, I said that many other vets are absent…I’m not leaving ’cause of the repeats…but it’s kind of in the rules so I commented on it. Should everybody who thinks that the rules should be followed find a new site? I can’t comment on that?[/quote]
    OK Hammer, I think I am too sensitive, but it was your comment about the “sillyness and repeats” that got to me. I have read every word posted here and enjoyed it all. So many VERY smart and observant people out there! Those of us who are new to the site may be afraid to post if you and others see our ideas as sillyness. Please comment on anything you like, and keep the ideas flowing.

  371. Hammer says:

    Okay…group hug:) I appreciate the compliment DocH, but I included you for the same reasons(it’s why I mentioned you to Miss Kim).

    Rita, I know how you feel as a newbie, this site is awesome. You are correct about the inteligence of most posters and the info help is great. But as you can see by my comment and the last one by DocH, you will eventually get pissed at the silliness and repeating…but like us, you won’t leave.

  372. Rita says:

    Hammer, you’re right, I won’t leave, this is too darned addicting! This show is amazing.

  373. Rita says:

    lostchicka, you forgot that Sun killed the “other” woman on the boat.

  374. Dany says:

    [quote comment="183466"]
    Apparently Mr. Avellino is Italian? ‘eccelente”? Dont know what that connection is.
    [/quote]

    Yes, he sounded italian (I am and can tell if the accent is correct or slightly fake)… maybe there is a connection with the Soprano’s here… interesting :D

  375. Lostie says:

    Enlighten me about the aging thing on the island. When a person ages, his/her outward appearance often ages in sync with the inner organ with the exception to smoking or indulging in other toxic stuff. How could a 20 something has a 70 something uterus? If Ben chose to have his surgery off the island I don’t see how his organs would age beyond his appearance.

  376. Circus Mom says:

    Lost Chicka:
    Frank may have thought that Daniel told Jack about the Sox winning?

    If the button was to save the world then I guess it’s too late.

    I can’t tell from your blog if you think the crew list given for the black rock is real or bogus. I’d certainly go for bogus, with the exception of Mr. Alpert possibly.

  377. Dany says:

    [quote comment="183654"]Enlighten me about the aging thing on the island. When a person ages, his/her outward appearance often ages in sync with the inner organ with the exception to smoking or indulging in other toxic stuff. How could a 20 something has a 70 something uterus? If Ben chose to have his surgery off the island I don’t see how his organs would age beyond his appearance.[/quote]

    If time is slower on the island, I assume also a tumor progression will be slowed down? Could that be a reason good enough for Ben decision to stay and get surgery on the island?

  378. Lostie says:

    [quote comment="183664"]
    If time is slower on the island, I assume also a tumor progression will be slowed down? Could that be a reason good enough for Ben decision to stay and get surgery on the island?[/quote]

    Yes, it sounds reasonable but I still don’t understand how a 20 something woman could have a 70 something uterus.

  379. Mel says:

    My husband noticed that the crashed plane underwater is not L-1011, is this and oversight or part of the story? Did anyone else find it odd how Sayid was kneeling in the field staring at Naomis dead body? Is it possible Kate knows she is pregant and wants off the island so she is safe to have the baby? I hope someone will have some comments on these.

  380. Miss Kim says:

    I have been thinking a great deal about Desmond Hume. I would like to re-visit some theories and possibly brainstorm some new ones. What’s up with Desmond? In addition to being a philosopher, Hume was an economist. Possibly Desmond is the “economist” that Else working for. Perhaps, Desmond is in charge of the freighter and is somehow working against Ben. Maybe off the island it’s the Ben vs. Desmond show. Thanks for revisiting these thoughts if they have been mentioned before and I have somehow overlooked them.

  381. Hammer says:

    Lostie. I’m not sure yet how the island time works, but there was the big hint that Alpert and likely many more natives of the island have halted their aging on the outside. Ben asked if Alpert remembers birthdays and Juliette has been analyzing young women with older inerds. Ben has obviously aged, but maybe it’s because he leaves the island often or maybe because he is not a native. Last ep. proved to us that the island time is slower, we just don’t yet know the dynamics (is it just 31 mins. or is it exponential?) Sooo…just my thinking, but Ben’s reason for not getting surgery off the island is not because his body is older internally, but because he found out that Jack’s surgical abilities are just as good if not better than what he would have gotten by leaving the island and hence leaving the island to be watched by someone else.

  382. FastEddie says:

    I just killed abut 5 hours reading all the posts over the past 3 days. Awesome!

    I saw something in the season 3 finale that I didn’t see anyone comment on although someone might have posted something long ago.

    Watch the scene when jack comes to the waiting room and sees (presumably) the husband and son of the women who was hurt in the accident. The Kid looks like Ethan and waves to him just like Ethan did.
    Maybe that is just the director having fun?

  383. Hammer says:

    Miss Kim, during last season I theorized that Dez in way more important to the story than he is had been portrayed. His had a flash that was neither a back or forward, but more of a off the island then back on. Remember when he saw Charlie on the street corner and tried to communicate about the island but Charlie didn’t know him. Also, he tried to fix leaving Penny, but decided he shouldn’t mess with fate and ended up back on the island. It is very possible that Dez is the economist working on the Widmore/DHARMA side. I think a big clue here is that Dez and Sayid are both going to the freighter with great intentions.

  384. Rita says:

    [quote comment="183675"]I have been thinking a great deal about Desmond Hume. I would like to re-visit some theories and possibly brainstorm some new ones. What’s up with Desmond? In addition to being a philosopher, Hume was an economist. Possibly Desmond is the “economist” that Else working for. Perhaps, Desmond is in charge of the freighter and is somehow working against Ben. Maybe off the island it’s the Ben vs. Desmond show. Thanks for revisiting these thoughts if they have been mentioned before and I have somehow overlooked them.[/quote]
    I had always thought of Desmond as sort of an innocent bistander, he isn’t an “other”, a “lostie”, or a “freighter tot”. Interesting position. We do know that he had met with Mr. Widmore and that after that he felt that completing the solo race would somehow win him the right to be with Pene. I always wondered about that too. Why would the race affect anything? I think we will see Des play a bigger part, and maybe find out that his conversation with Widmore led to a “mission” of sorts beyond the race. Maybe no accident that he ended up where he did (none of the other solo racers ended up there). I think he knows more than he has said.

  385. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="183668"]My husband noticed that the crashed plane underwater is not L-1011, is this and oversight or part of the story? Did anyone else find it odd how Sayid was kneeling in the field staring at Naomis dead body? Is it possible Kate knows she is pregant and wants off the island so she is safe to have the baby? I hope someone will have some comments on these.[/quote]
    Good points Mel. I don’t have any thoughts on the plane other than it’s becoming an obvious set up so I guess plane type doesn’t matter.
    Yes Sayid’s behavior is suspicious. It seems that he has a connection to Naomi and he like Dez is hell bent on getting to the freighter before everyone else. I like the Kate knows she’s preg. theory because it explains why she would want off island even though it SHOULD mean jail for her.

  386. Hammer says:

    Oh. I forgot to bring up the whole list thing. Lists are big in lost, but does anyone remember the list that Goodwin brought up? Jacob’s list that Jack was not on? Now we have a list of people that Ben (Jacob?) wants dead. Thoughts?

  387. FastEddie says:

    I wanted to ask a question that I did not see discussed here. How did Hurley become the new chosen one (chosen one being loosly defined by me as someoen who can see Jacob’s lader, err, I mean cabin)? Did anyone see that coming?

    That sceen on the beach when he learns they are going to be rescued, he comments to Rose’s husband, who’s names escapes me at the moment, that he feels like doing a cannon ball into the sea. I’m sure we all thought when he opened his eyes that he would see a drowned Charlie or something but then….Nothing. He pops up and see Desmond landing the canoe. Soon after he runs into the cabin. I guess I just didn’t see that coming at all. Anyone else??

  388. FastEddie says:

    And…Hurley was on the original list at the end of Season 2. Perhaps Jacob wanted a closer look and then let him go?

  389. Dany says:

    [quote comment="183689"]I wanted to ask a question that I did not see discussed here. How did Hurley become the new chosen one (chosen one being loosly defined by me as someoen who can see Jacob’s lader, err, I mean cabin)? Did anyone see that coming?

    That sceen on the beach when he learns they are going to be rescued, he comments to Rose’s husband, who’s names escapes me at the moment, that he feels like doing a cannon ball into the sea. I’m sure we all thought when he opened his eyes that he would see a drowned Charlie or something but then….Nothing. He pops up and see Desmond landing the canoe. Soon after he runs into the cabin. I guess I just didn’t see that coming at all. Anyone else??[/quote]

    Since the beginning Hurley had stuff going on.. remember the lottery winning numbers being the same as the combination of the hatch button… and he was freaked out after winning the lottery about bad things happening to people around him like he was bad luck…

  390. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="183693"]And…Hurley was on the original list at the end of Season 2. Perhaps Jacob wanted a closer look and then let him go?[/quote]
    No, he was not on Jacob’s list. If fact, we never found out who is on Jacob’s list. He was on the list Michael was given for the trade for Walt, that is not the same list a Jacob’s list. That one did NOT have Jack. The list that Hurley was on DID have Jack on it.

  391. Miss Kim says:

    Jacob’s list could be kind of like the biblical Book of Life. Perhaps Ethan and Goodwin have abilities similar to those of Miles Strom and could determine the righteous from the undeserving. The survivors of the crash would be systematically put on lists based on this. I wonder which list would be which though. Are the “righteous” actually a threat/enemy of Ben and his people? This could be why the “undeserving” were named on Bea’s list….Kate, Jack, and Sawyer. Hurley was just the messenger….he belonged on the “righteous” list. Perhaps post island, Ben is still using the “undeserving” to conquer the “righteous” as well.

  392. Hammer says:

    Miss Kim. I believe that Ms. Clue’s list contained Jack, Kate and Sawyer strictly for getting Kate pregnant. It was convenient for Ben to use Michael to get them into Ben’s control. He let Kate choose her mate, put them together and “helped” them along. At the time, Ben’s objective was to study how to get the island women to have babies. Remember that before the freighter tots came, the big beach battle was for the pregnant women. We are still waiting for who was on Jacob’s list…I’m guessing Locke, Dez, Hugo…

  393. Hammer says:

    …Walt, all the “special ones” that can “help” Jacob.

  394. Miss Kim says:

    I’m re-watching last week’s episode. In case this wasn’t pointed out, Sayid asked Frank something to the effect of, “If I bring you back Charlotte, safely, will you take me to the ship?” Frank answers, “Absoloutely. You bring Charlotte back safely and I will take you off this island.” (Does off the island equal to the ship?) Perhaps this explains the sharp turn the helicopter makes at the end of the show……

  395. Hammer says:

    I don’t have a big theory about the right turn of the heli. Alhough when I first watched it I thought it was odd that he said “get you off the island”, I just think that it was for dramatic effect. I thought that the pilot bought Faraday’s line that he better stay on course. The pilot seemed to trust the science coming from the “nerdy” guy.

  396. DocH says:

    I like the thread above with Des as “more of a factor” than we think. If he is counter-recruiting Ben, then we can start to draw up teams. Des was after Charlie in England (Picadilly?) – was he recruiting Jack working-out/running steps in LA? Sayid says when he starts trusting Ben is the day he sells his soul. Looks like he sold it, with the whole Berlin debacle.

  397. Miss Kim says:

    I’d always take the word of the nerdy guy! It was strange though that nobody else was in a big rush to get off the island. Desmond easily claimed a seat to find out the truth about why Naomi said that she was working for Penny and despite the low fuel situation and excess cargo,Sayid was all bossy about bringing Naomi back. For whatever reason, he had some sort of affinity for Naomi. Perhaps that was what Ben was referring to about thinking with his heart and not his gun. Something may occur when the helicopter gets to it’s destination which puts Sayid in harm’s way. Ben may ultimately be his only way out.

  398. Lilly says:

    does anyone know how do watch it online? i cannot find a site!!ahhhh help me! i never got to see the economist episode three

  399. Lilly says:

    does anyone know how do watch it online? i cannot find a site!!ahhhh help me! i never got to see the economist episode three season four

  400. Miss Kim says:

    Lilly: ABC.com (Under full episodes) You’ll have to deal w/ a few ads and Eli Stone promotions….but it’s worth it. Enjoy.

  401. Dany says:

    [quote comment="183708"]does anyone know how do watch it online? i cannot find a site!!ahhhh help me! i never got to see the economist episode three season four[/quote]

    http://www.abc.com
    click on watch full episodes and you’ll find a list of all their show including lost

  402. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="183697"]Miss Kim. I believe that Ms. Clue’s list contained Jack, Kate and Sawyer strictly for getting Kate pregnant. It was convenient for Ben to use Michael to get them into Ben’s control. He let Kate choose her mate, put them together and “helped” them along. At the time, Ben’s objective was to study how to get the island women to have babies. Remember that before the freighter tots came, the big beach battle was for the pregnant women. We are still waiting for who was on Jacob’s list…I’m guessing Locke, Dez, Hugo…[/quote]
    I actually thought it was to have Jack operate on Ben and that Kate and Sawyer were the “insurance” they needed to help him cooperate.

  403. lost chicka says:

    if patchy is ben’s man on the boat i’ll go crazy. besides i don’t think he could be bcuz he would be just swimming in the ocean and he HAS to be dead. otherwise charlie (may he rest in peace) really did die for nothing!!!! i’m rooting for michael and then when he gets to the island hurley flips out and runs him over with the van, or locke is told to kill him by walt (that’d be funny, michael kills for walt, then walt has him killed).

    hammer (360): me too! she has a gun and all he has to do is say shh, she calls for sayid and…they sit down and have a nice chat. what is up with that???? the only thing i could think up was that she knows he won’t hurt her, so she won’t hurt him. but even that doesn’t make that much sense. or maybe it’s cuz she’s really in love with him and just wants to stay there with him (i’m a skater. can you tell?). but i don’t think that’s why. and another problem is there’s a window in that room (isn’t there or was that just my imagination?)!

    i think we all need a drink or something to just calm down and get over the fact that not everybody is gonna follow ALL the rules. somebody is gonna post a spoiler, somebody is gonna reapeat, somebody isn’t gonna read all posts before posting (i’m guilty). somebody is gonna break the rules, and rules are made for breakin!

    rita (373): oh yeah. i think i put that on one of my other posts on here about all the people everybody’s killed and then we love all of them. hehe. picket was really mad and beat sawyer up after sun shot his gf. i love this show.

    dany (374): yeah and then the show will end with them on a plane again and there will be some turbulence then the screen will go blank….and we’ll all think are tvs went out and we’ll all be pissed when we find out they didn’t and that was the end. lol.

    circus mom (376): i kinda knew it was fake as when i posted it, but it just sounds so good! (minus the heroes)…..it kinda depends on what the button was saving the world from (if it was doing that, like desmond thought)…..i guess frank coulda thought daniel told jack about the sox winning, but daniel seems more like the type that would tell him the scientific stuff of baseball – momentum is carried from the bat and transferred to the ball then the ball’s momentum is transferred to the bla bla bla – not someone who would be all like oh yeah and the _____ won the superbowl.

    mel (379): wasn’t he praying? and then he opened his eyes and there she was? that’s just what i assumed. i think kate’s pregnant, and she could want to leave the island because of that if she knows. that could be who she had to go back to at the end of TLG.

    desmond is good!!!!!! i don’t know how anyone can think he’s bad! sure he put kate in the pantry, had a gun to locke’s head, and shot at jack, and threatened to kill locke, and killed kelvin…but other than that he’s totally good! he’s no different than anyother lostie. and he saved charlie how many times?!? des is a hatchie i guess. i think going on the race around the world, des thought would prove to penny’s dad that he was worth his daughter, or at least his whiskey. des is hell bent on getting to the freighter because he needs to see penny and find out there connection to her and he’s been on the island for 3 bloody years!!!!

    hammer (386): i said a while back that i think the list is jacob’s and ben is once again using other people to carry it out (like michael, or goodwin, or ethan).

    miss kim (391): erm, are you calling sayid “undeserving”?

  404. Dany says:

    [quote comment="183719"]

    dany (374): yeah and then the show will end with them on a plane again and there will be some turbulence then the screen will go blank….and we’ll all think are tvs went out and we’ll all be pissed when we find out they didn’t and that was the end. lol.

    [/quote]

    lol indeed!!!! ;)

  405. Dany says:

    [quote comment="183719"]

    mel (379): wasn’t he praying? and then he opened his eyes and there she was? that’s just what i assumed. i think kate’s pregnant, and she could want to leave the island because of that if she knows. that could be who she had to go back to at the end of TLG.

    [/quote]

    didn’t Kate tell Sawyer one or two episodes ago she might be pregnant? I do remember something like that.. she was gonna get tested by Juliet…

  406. Lilly says:

    Dany
    Comment 401, posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago – Quote and reply
    Lilly wrote:

    does anyone know how do watch it online? i cannot find a site!!ahhhh help me! i never got to see the economist episode three season four

    http://www.abc.com
    click on watch full episodes and you’ll find a list of all their show including lost

    thank you but ive tried the abc website and it seams that it is only accessable to people in the united states are there any websites for canadians to watch the show that you know of? thanks a lot!

  407. PJSander says:

    “Patchy takes a licking and keeps on blinking…” I think “winking” might be a tad more accurate. LOL

    But Patchy/Mikhail’s most recent death reminds me of Charlie’s sacrifice… and it brings me to a possible question: Charlie had already proven his incredible lung capacity in the swim DOWN to the hatch. Is it not possible that he could have escaped through the porthole and swam to the surface and SURVIVED the Looking Glass Explosion? Could HE be Ben’s “man on the boat?” Not willingly, of course. Or maybe the tots captured/rescued him?

    : ) P

  408. stephanie says:

    my thoughts are.. the person in the casket is juliet and as for who kate had to get back to before he found out she was gone when she met up with jack i think is ben! who knows maybe even the guy hurley got the numbers from in the first place had been to the island and thats what put him in the nut house, remember he told hurley he got the numbers from a guy on a boat…

  409. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="183583"]Toeknee (#338): sure anybody can get an old newspaper but NOBODY can get a newspaper that reports “news” that just happened minutes ago.[/quote]
    I don’t disagree with that – the Others have an uncanny knack to obtain whatever they need.

    I’m just saying that as far as I can tell, the newspaper you’re talking about did not have a headline related to the crash. Check out the photo I linked to in comment #338. Also, if you don’t have the DVD’s handy, you can rewatch the scene throught the magic of youtube. I won’t post a link – there’s probably some copyright violation involved. But, if you go to youtube.com, and search for “Lost – I want to show you something” you can watch the scene with the newspaper.

  410. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="183699"]Sayid asked Frank something to the effect of, “If I bring you back Charlotte, safely, will you take me to the ship?” Frank answers, “Absoloutely. You bring Charlotte back safely and I will take you off this island.” (Does off the island equal to the ship?) [/quote]
    I don’t think Frank was playing word games (like Ben would). Franks first answer was “Absolutely”, so by saying that he’s telling Sayid he will bring him to the ship. Like Hammer said, the “take you off the island” bit was just for dramatic effect.

    [quote comment="183719"]
    circus mom (376): i guess frank coulda thought daniel told jack about the sox winning, but daniel seems more like the type that would tell him the scientific stuff of baseball – momentum is carried from the bat and transferred to the ball then the ball’s momentum is transferred to the bla bla bla – not someone who would be all like oh yeah and the _____ won the superbowl.
    [/quote]
    If not Daniel, then it could have been Miles who told Jack about the $#&%*! Red Sox.

    Another thought that came to mind, if Frank has the plane’s manifest memorized, he must have known Desmond wasn’t on the plane. Yet he (Frank) had no problem letting him (Des) on the helicopter. I would think that Frank would be a little more suspicious and ask some questions before letting Desmond get on board. But then again, we don’t know the full extent of what Frank or the other freighters know.

  411. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="183712"][quote comment="183697"][/quote]
    I actually thought it was to have Jack operate on Ben and that Kate and Sawyer were the “insurance” they needed to help him cooperate.[/quote]
    You are correct, Goodwin didn’t complain about Kate or Sawyer not being on Jacob’s list…just Jack…so Jack was on Clue’s list for two reasons (remember the beach breakfast when Ben made a comment about Kate picking Sawyer).

  412. Miss Kim says:

    Toeknee: (410) Good call on Frank having memorized the passenger list and still not questioning Desmond. Could be oversight I suppose. I found the whole helicopter passenger thing funny. Sure seems like Frank had no trouble being bossed around by Desmond and Sayid.(397) Strange too–why let Sayid bring a rifle. If I recall correctly, Jack gives Sayid a rifle when he’s getting ready to go on the helicopter.

    lostchicka (403) Sorry. Sayid may be “undeserving” for now, but if people have the ability to change themselves for the greater good than he may end up on the “righteous” side. Free will perseveres and all that other philisophical stuff. No matter what, righteous or undeserving, he still looks hot–especially in the flash forward scenes!!!

  413. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="183811"]my thoughts are.. the person in the casket is juliet[/quote]
    stephanie, are you aware of the obituary for the person in the casket? It is a man. Go to lostpedia.com and search obituary. You will see what I am saying.

  414. tsol says:

    Tried to read the majority of these comments, but didnt manage all so sorry if i am repeating some. i can see that has been an issue recently. IMO in a show like this repeating what happened in series 1 etc is helpful. no?
    Firstly, i agree sayid was alittle too interested in naomis bracelet. what i also thought was strange was his overall concern for her dead body. seemed to take alot of interest in it. similar to the kneeling Miles did when he was supposedly talking to her spirit.
    Who ever thought she was Australian- she has a manchester uk accent, and had conversations with Charlie about places here that they have both been to. ‘Night and Day’ bar.
    Secondly, whats with the strange attitute of whoever is on the boat? people seem to think regina has a major influence on them all, ie the braclet theory, but it is the other guy, cant remember his name, who Dan was going to hang up on if regina didnt answer the phone. And why could he not come to the phone?
    Does anyone think the the pilot is the spy? or is this too obvious? He Was supposed to be the one flying 815, knew juliet was not on the plane and poss didnt know her because he has been off the island for so long. Also, cant really see Daniel telling Jack about the Red Sox, judt doesnt seem like the sport following type to me.
    I also go along with the whole Walt is dead theory, but i still wonder what about his powers? we have to get more answers about them.
    Claire and Aaron must leave the island. It was the whole reason Charlie made his sacrifice, because Desmond saw them leaving on a helicoper. unless they dont make it passed the freighter..

  415. tsol says:

    Something else i just thouhgt of…. when sayed speaks to Locke about taking Charlotte back with him, he says, ‘i do not expect you to give her to me for nothing’ (or something like that), so what do we think he gives him? I couldnt have been Miles as he tells Frank, because Locke already has him? what do we think?

  416. RaviHans says:

    [quote comment="182028"][quote comment="181975"]
    I can’t debate who the “he” is. However I will try the Ben is a “good” guy theory.

    Ben tells Sayid, “you want to help your friends don’t you?” If Ben is good, he can’t be referring to the Oceanic survivors, he’d have to be referring to some other group of people. Why you ask?

    The show is about the Oceanic survivors. We as viewers then hope that the survivors make it back to civilization. Now other hopes may have come up, but the main idea is to get them back. Locke is part of the Oceanic survivors.

    Is Locke a “good” guy? I would say yes. His actions are consistent with doing good. Helping a druggie stay off drugs, trying to save Oceanic survivors from the impending doom, etc.

    Ben shoots Locke leaving him for dead. End of Ben being good in my book. There is a laundry list of deeds done by Ben that, even under the guise of “protecting the island” still come off as fanatical. Kiinda like how terrorists apparently view their actions to be “good”, even though the world over believes them to be bad.[/quote]

    The Following may sound dumb or may be pretty wild.
    But i have to get this out of my chest and now i’m puttin it down.

    The writers/ prodcuers mentioned there will be a huge cliffhanger at the end of the 8th episode.

    now we’ve seen Jack, Kate, Hurly, Sayid and Quite twistedly BEN already out of the Island!!!

    Now WHo expected that??

    And this proves, AGAIN- That The LOST writers are some of the greatest story telling/twisting geniuses on the planet.

    Okay here is the BIG IDEA.

    There is ONLY ONE PERSON LEFT TO BE REVEALED.
    Cuz There can be ONLY 6.
    THE OCEANIC 6.

    They Gave us FIVE quite easily. already.
    And doesn’t that mean that the 6TH oNE REVELATIONS WOULD BE A COMPLETE WHOAA!!! Moment where nobody would Guess or predict…

    the BIG IDEA.

    I think the 6th member of the OCEANIC 6.
    is LOCKE.
    John Locke.

    throw in what you think…
    This ouwld be the ultimate twist, ladies & Gentlemen..

  417. RaviHans says:

    And I futher think..
    It will be revealed by the 8th episode or the 7th one, since the WGA strike is over..

    Massive stuff..

  418. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="183953"]Something else i just thouhgt of…. when sayed speaks to Locke about taking Charlotte back with him, he says, ‘i do not expect you to give her to me for nothing’ (or something like that), so what do we think he gives him? I couldnt have been Miles as he tells Frank, because Locke already has him? what do we think?[/quote]
    imho
    I assumed the trade was Miles for Charlotte. Sayid took Miles along on the mission,ie he Locke only has Miles because Sayid took him to him.

  419. RaviHans says:

    [quote comment="183974"][quote comment="183953"]Something else i just thouhgt of…. when sayed speaks to Locke about taking Charlotte back with him, he says, ‘i do not expect you to give her to me for nothing’ (or something like that), so what do we think he gives him? I couldnt have been Miles as he tells Frank, because Locke already has him? what do we think?[/quote]
    imho
    I assumed the trade was Miles for Charlotte. Sayid took Miles along on the mission,ie he Locke only has Miles because Sayid took him to him.[/quote]

    Yeah, It was a trade off.

    The writers/ prodcuers mentioned there will be a huge cliffhanger at the end of the 8th episode.

    now we’ve seen Jack, Kate, Hurly, Sayid and Quite twistedly BEN already out of the Island!!!

    Now WHo expected that??

    And this proves, AGAIN- That The LOST writers are some of the greatest story telling/twisting geniuses on the planet.

    Okay here is the BIG IDEA.

    There is ONLY ONE PERSON LEFT TO BE REVEALED.
    Cuz There can be ONLY 6.
    THE OCEANIC 6.

    They Gave us FIVE quite easily. already.
    And doesn’t that mean that the 6TH oNE REVELATIONS WOULD BE A COMPLETE WHOAA!!! Moment where nobody would Guess or predict…

    the BIG IDEA.

    I think the 6th member of the OCEANIC 6.
    is LOCKE.
    John Locke.

    throw in what you think…
    This ouwld be the ultimate twist, ladies & Gentlemen..

  420. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    Just a thought. In Season One we were told that Danielle’s message at the radio tower that she recorded was playing repeatedly for 16 years. I think Danielle made some comment like “Has it really been 16 years?” Something along that effect. How does this relate to the whole time difference theory – if it has been 16 years on the island, then how did Danielle’s daughter grow up to be 16 if time is slower on the island than in real life? Could Ben have taken her off the island and she aged that way? Also, where did her boyfriend come from? Is he one of the other’s sons?

  421. Rita says:

    I think the trade was for Miles AND KATE. Then Sayeed said “she decided to stay”. Had they planned that she would stay? She didn’t seem upset about it.
    Also, I still don’t think we know 5 of the O6: Ben wasn’t on the plane, so he isn’t one of the Oceanic anything.
    I’m still wondering about Desmond. I caught it too that Frank didn’t freak out about Des not being on the plane, like he did about Juliette. It may imply that Frank already knew about Des. Also, when Desmond had his vision about Clair getting into a helicopter, he only implied/thought it was for rescue but we don’t really know that. What if Frank is only taking them to one of the other islands? Or someplace else? (He did say, “yes I’ll take you off the island”) they could be going to be held captive someplace else.
    Really though, after all the trouble the heli had landing (they had to throw everybody out!) would YOU be keen about getting in to go back to the freighter??
    I’m not sure yet about Des. We haven’t seen him do anything with a bad motive yet (he killed Kelvin in self defense). And by the way, how DID Kelvin get to the island? He didn’t have a boat (he tried to steal Desmond’s). What did he mean when he asked Des, “are you the one?”. You probably all hashed that out in season 2, but it may yet be important in this season. I think it will yet tie in somehow. Any thoughts?

  422. Tim says:

    Just throwing this out to see what people think.

    Frank is recruited for this mission because he was supposed to be the pilot before something changed the schedule.
    Maybe Daniel was also supposed to be on the plane before something changed his plans, like an illness or something. That may be why he was a little frazzled when he heard about the crash. He realized it might have been him on the plane too.
    Same thing for Charlotte.
    It is all about destiny and how there is no free will. Fate will get you in the end, and in this case fate is personified by Abbadon. That is why he wants these specific people to get to the island.
    Of course we will never know unless or until they reveal some flashback or one of the characters mentions this in a conversation.

  423. deangoodes says:

    Rita comment 421: The chopper was hit by lightning I thought, or at the very least was trying to land in a storm. There isn’t proof that the island was causing the issues they had.

  424. RGS says:

    [quote comment="184007"]Just throwing this out to see what people think.

    Frank is recruited for this mission because he was supposed to be the pilot before something changed the schedule.
    Maybe Daniel was also supposed to be on the plane before something changed his plans, like an illness or something. That may be why he was a little frazzled when he heard about the crash. He realized it might have been him on the plane too.
    Same thing for Charlotte.
    It is all about destiny and how there is no free will. Fate will get you in the end, and in this case fate is personified by Abbadon. That is why he wants these specific people to get to the island.
    Of course we will never know unless or until they reveal some flashback or one of the characters mentions this in a conversation.[/quote]

    That is a great idea re: Daniel being broken up over not being on the flight.

    I’m a hard grader when it comes to writing, but despite the potential plot gaps/lapses in each episode I’m very pleased with the show and can’t wait for Thursday.

    Just in case I post a whacked out theory that may raise concern for my mental health I have decided to use the safe phrase “Silly rabbit Trix are for kids.” Therefore, if you see that at the end of one of my posts fear not, because thats my way of letting you know I am still sane.

  425. Rita says:

    [quote comment="184008"]Rita comment 421: The chopper was hit by lightning I thought, or at the very least was trying to land in a storm. There isn’t proof that the island was causing the issues they had.[/quote]
    Maybe, but I don’t remember there being a storm and if it was hit by lightning, it would be more damaged now (and unflyable?). I think the island caused the problems, and also caused Desmond’s boat to crash earlier.

  426. RGS says:

    The Following may sound dumb or may be pretty wild.But i have to get this out of my chest and now i’m puttin it down.The writers/ prodcuers mentioned there will be a huge cliffhanger at the end of the 8th episode.
    now we’ve seen Jack, Kate, Hurly, Sayid and Quite twistedly BEN already out of the Island!!!Now WHo expected that??And this proves, AGAIN- That The LOST writers are some of the greatest story telling/twisting geniuses on the planet.Okay here is the BIG IDEA.There is ONLY ONE PERSON LEFT TO BE REVEALED.Cuz There can be ONLY 6.
    THE OCEANIC 6.They Gave us FIVE quite easily. already.And doesn’t that mean that the 6TH oNE REVELATIONS WOULD BE A COMPLETE WHOAA!!! Moment where nobody would Guess or predict…
    the BIG IDEA.I think the 6th member of the OCEANIC 6.is LOCKE.John Locke.

    throw in what you think…
    This ouwld be the ultimate twist, ladies & Gentlemen..[/quote]

    The only thing missing from this post was for you to type in all caps, “FOOLS, DON’T YOU SEE IT’S ALL SO SIMPLE!!”

    Actually I would be shocked, if Ben is part of the O6, I imagine he’d come tussle his newfound hair up, and come running out of the jungle when the rescue party showed up, like an uninvited guest, and say “don’t forget about me!”

    Lol, your theory could very well be on the money though, I’m still looking at red herring websites.

    But why Locke, is it just a hunch? I don’t think Locke wants to be brought back, if they tried to take him he’d probably go limp and reveal that he has no use of his legs anymore.

  427. RGS says:

    [quote comment="183953"]Something else i just thouhgt of…. when sayed speaks to Locke about taking Charlotte back with him, he says, ‘i do not expect you to give her to me for nothing’ (or something like that), so what do we think he gives him? I couldnt have been Miles as he tells Frank, because Locke already has him? what do we think?[/quote]

    I think Sayid says to Locke something along the lines of, “let me do this my way.” The underlying assumption we later find out, is that his way involved trading Miles for Charlotte.

  428. Paul says:

    OK, let us assume that the island time is about 1:3 ratio. 1yr = 3yrs. Well, the Red Sox won in 2004 AND 2007. Ben would know both of these events as he is able to leave the island at will. Lost ends in 3 years. Seems to make sense.

  429. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="183992"] And by the way, how DID Kelvin get to the island? He didn’t have a boat (he tried to steal Desmond’s). What did he mean when he asked Des, “are you the one?”. You probably all hashed that out in season 2, but it may yet be important in this season. I think it will yet tie in somehow. Any thoughts?[/quote]
    If we are to believe Kelvin’s story (I do), he joined the Dharma Initiative, so presumably he got to the island the same way all the other DI employees did. I think the reason he asked Desmond “Are you him?” was because he was expecting a replacement to take over duties in the Swan Hatch, but that’s just a guess – we haven’t been told. This was discussed during season 2 but I don’t think there’s any harm in bringing it up again especially if you think it relates to what’s going on in current episodes, which happens all the time with Lost.

    [quote comment="184014"]
    Maybe, but I don’t remember there being a storm and if it was hit by lightning, it would be more damaged now (and unflyable?). I think the island caused the problems, and also caused Desmond’s boat to crash earlier.[/quote]
    There was definitely a storm. Kate and Jack were standing in the rain when they first heard the helicopter, when Daniel landed it was raining, and I think at one point Frank said they got struck by lightning.

  430. Dany says:

    [quote comment="183758"]

    But Patchy/Mikhail’s most recent death reminds me of Charlie’s sacrifice… and it brings me to a possible question: Charlie had already proven his incredible lung capacity in the swim DOWN to the hatch. Is it not possible that he could have escaped through the porthole and swam to the surface and SURVIVED the Looking Glass Explosion? Could HE be Ben’s “man on the boat?” Not willingly, of course. Or maybe the tots captured/rescued him?

    : ) P[/quote]

    I swear I thought of this possibility too a while back. So I went back and watched the scene again.. I wanted to check the size of the porthole as he might have escaped from there.. but it was too small, Charlie was the one shutting the door at Dez, so he could have later opened it… but, why wouldn’t he then come back to his friends, to Claire… (definitely not Ben’s man!) so I let the theory go. When he reappears to Hurley he says something to the effect that makes us think again ‘oh, he survived’ but then when Hurley starts to count for making him disappear he does… like all the ‘ghosts’ he has seen so far… uhm… it would be a great twist though..

  431. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="184034"]I wanted to check the size of the porthole as he might have escaped from there.. but it was too small, [/quote]

    Actually, I don’t think the porthole WAS too small for Charlie – for many other characters maybe. The other thing that made me consider that possibility is that the porthole was an odd size – almost “Charlie-size” in fact!

    As for Charlie disappearing when Hurley “wished him away” that could have been Charlie acknowledging that Hurley wasn’t READY for the “truth” of Charlie’s living through the explosion. And it could also be that Charlie has to pretend to “stay dead” to protect his friends – if that makes sense.

    It’s funny, because at the end of last season, I was sorry Charlie had died, but didn’t REALLY care that much. After the other characters reacted to his death, though, I cheered outwardly when he showed up to see Hurley. I guess I liked Charlie more than I thought I did!

    : ) P

  432. Bobola says:

    I still see people posting that Michael is not so bad, that he did what any parent would have done….
    WTF? There are a lot of sick people out there.
    Sorry but my kid is not going to be part of a trade if it depends on me killing two women who did nothing to harm me. No way.
    And trying to justify what Michael did by pointing out the real mixed bag of violent acts for others is a weak attempt to muddy the waters.
    I get on a soapbox about Michael because there is no excuse at all for his crimes. With some of the others there are questionable cirmcumstances.
    I’m certainly no Pacifist when it comes down to survival. I would not harm anyone for no reason, but if I felt threatened I would act. I think the majority of shots fired were justified, some not. I’m not for giving anyone a blanket amnesty but there are clear cut cases to me.

    And posters who want to think that there is no good or bad absolutes are silly; this series is all about good and bad but they also want to make it hard to tell the motivations and thus the possible justifications.
    Some are clear as when Hurley drove in to save his friends during the Beach fight; others can be argued over, like when Sawyer put a bullet into the surrendering survivor on the beach. But at that point it was war and if it were me on an island fighting and I’d just heard that my prisoner moments before was trying to talk his buddies into killing me; then that prisoner would be killed as fast as Sawyer did. No nonsense for me, I’m fighting just as dirty as the enemy. But then Sawyer knows the score from being in Prison; you often don’t get a second chance to be wrong in a war; and this island is a war zone. Funny how some characters get this and some never will.
    I find it odd that no one has gotten all Medieval on Miles yet. From the nerdy Chopper guy plus Ben’s comments the Losties know something’s up…
    I’d be getting down to business right away. Spill the beans Ghost Whisperer. Or what might work better; Put a gun to Miles head and tell Frank if he doesn’t talk…Miles brains will be recycled.
    Poo poo on the idea that Desmond is the man on the boat; that’s not even slightly supported by past episodes. He’s dying to get off the island and has been for a long time. I don’t see him as a complicated man at all…he wants love, not intrigue.
    Probably Michael is on the Freighter and will be one of the Six along with Walt.

    Lost Chicka;
    I won’t be able to recall all the examples but Sayeed has been blowing it (imho) for a while.
    He’s been letting security get too loose (Miles needs to be tied up)…and joining the crazy Doc instead of Locke; why?
    The latest blunder to me is him wanting a cadaver to join the Chopper ride. (sorry to repeat myself). This only makes sense if there’s something we don’t know yet, and I’m sure there is.

  433. Dany says:

    PJSanders.. let’s hope for the best and may be Charlie be alive!!!!

  434. avalanche says:

    [quote comment="182736"]Does anyone else find it creepy that after Sayid tells the golfer dude that he is oceanic 6 he says “take your shot, MY FRIEND.” and then kills him. i mean why didn’t he just whip out the gun right then… and skip the whole friend bit. Also, the guy didn’t run, so he wasn’t positive that Sayid was going to kill him or anything he was just worried.[/quote]

    i think sayid does this out of his basic reepect for life. it reminded me of the buddhist eating the strawberry when trapped between tigers story. a sweet shot to a golfer would be tantamount to the best life has to offer–at least the obsessed golfers i know.

    i thank you for the physics explanation. my one question is that is still about relativity–in the most common sense of the word. the rocket only took thirty seconds to reach the target to the woman on the boat. remember she kept saying 20 meters 10. . .5.. .payload arrived. if she’s monitoring this in “real time” how can the rocket actually take more time to get there–as it apparently did?

  435. Hammer says:

    avalanche – I’ve been working on this one too. I can’t figure out why the rocket took so long while talking to Regina with no delay…need physics help. In fact if Ben’s newpaper video wasn’t a hoax, he is also talking to his underling with no delay.

  436. Hammer says:

    It must have something to do with physically entering the time warp (or whatever this is). I just don’t get how communications devices are not effected.

  437. think lost says:

    Ok, i think Ben is mean and heartless, but why is he so bothered that the survivors want to get off the island? is he really protecting them for something?
    As we know once they were out, they wanted to go back…when Jack tried to suicide he had a paper note in his hand, and he was making a phone call to someone he couldn’t reach, who could it be?
    When Hurley saw Charlie, he told him “you’re dead!” and Charlie said “yes i am, but i’m also here”, does that mean we will start seeing more dead people?
    observation note: In season 3, Naomi wasn’t wearing any bracelet…
    I think in the boat could really be a girl, maybe Ben’s little girl friend from childhood…

  438. RGS says:

    The Desmond photo also changes up. I point that out because some people were making a big deal out of the picture frames changing for the “young Eko.” I point it out because I think that may have been a simple error on their part and not some kind of interruption of the space-time continuum.

    http://home.blarg.net/~wayule/graphics/lost_desmondphoto.jpg

  439. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="184073"]The Desmond photo also changes up. http://home.blarg.net/~wayule/graphics/lost_desmondphoto.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    Where did that top photo come from? ACK! That definitely isn’t the same “Penny” we know.

    Regarding the “missing 30 minutes” that the rocket indicates, I agree that a time-warp of some kind may explain Alpert’s lack of aging, but I also wonder if the geography plays a part. Maybe the rocket could lock in on the location of the signal, but the other equipment on the freighter “sees” it at a different location? This might explain why the island is “hidden.” The tots were able to find a signal (because the looking glass was destroyed) to attach to, but didn’t realize GETTING there would be so difficult. IDK.

    I seem to recall at the end of one episode (S4E1?), there was a teaser for the following week where someone on the phone said that they couldn’t “see” the island. I don’t remember that being part of the episode the next week though.

    I love reading all the theories, but it only serves to create MORE questions in my mind! I sometimes wish I could be like my friends who just take the show at face value and don’t CARE to try to figure things out in advance! Nope. Not me!

    : ) P

  440. Twistedsisters says:

    This might mean nothing but we have found a pattern with some numbers:

    time on the clocks that Daneil had.
    2:45.3=14
    3:16.22=14
    time difference 31min 19 sec= 14
    flight 815=14

    1+4=5

    Has anyone else noticed any thing strange with numbers?

  441. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="184081"][quote comment="184073"]The Desmond photo also changes up. http://home.blarg.net/~wayule/graphics/lost_desmondphoto.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    Where did that top photo come from? ACK! That definitely isn’t the same “Penny” we know.
    [/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    LOL! The top photo was from early in season 2, well before Penny was cast. So, don’t read anything into the difference. I guess you’d call it a continuity error, but I’m sure that once the producers revised the photo and inserted the real Penny, they were well aware that there’d be lots of discussion of this difference on the internet.

  442. Omar Kamel says:

    Well.

    I’m was very late for this episode. Just watched it yesterday, and came in here to see what everybody thinks :)

    My initial thoughts – in no specific order:

    1. My major confusion regarding Noami’s bracelet is that it appeared to me that Sayid recognized it. Then when he saw Elsa’s bracelet in the future, it occured to me that he had ‘recognized it’ FROM the future. So that freaked me out for a while, but I’m willing to dismiss it as a perceptual fluke on my part. However, I am left with no explanation for why he took special notice of it – and more so – why he would remove a ‘special object’ from somebody’s dead body when he otherwise seemed to treat it with dignity.

    2. Ben & Sayid. Jeezus. Major freak out for me. Big time. I do NOT think there’s a voice-issue regarding the scene at the end. If anything – the only thing I noticed – well – there’s this one bit where it occured to me that Sayid is hearing a mix between what Ben is saying to him NOW and something Ben had said to him before, in another context. That, if anything, is the most I suspected. NOT the Jacob/Ben idea that many are entertaining.

    3. Miles for Charlotte was a clear enough trade-off, and I suspect that Sayid already knew he was going to do that – which is why he didn’t think twice when Miles suggested that he go along. Sayid knew EXACTLY why he was taking him along.

    4. I have NO clue who R.G. is – and it’ll be fun to find out ;)

    5. Jacob’s Cabin. That was a tricky sitation, and already served to undermine Locke’s leadership among the Barracks’ faction. I found it somewhat disturbing and I’m not entirelly sure what it means. The simple expalantion is, as somebody suggested here, that the Cabin did not show because Locke had brought along an audience. However, it seems to me that if this were a condition for it’s appearence that somehow Locke would have intuited that. He clearly didn’t.

    NOW –

    On a completely different note – I’ve been thinking – and I know this is totally from left-field – BUT:

    What if somehow Abbadon = The Black Smoke Monster? – which can now somehow materialize OFF the Island – maybe ever since the failsafe was activated? And what if Charlie was a manifestation of the ‘Other’ Monster or other FACE of the monster – that seen and trusted by Locke when he said he had seen the soul of the Island and that it was beautiful?

    It’s just that I was thinking of opposition – and I remembered Locke’s thing about Backgammon – when he was telling Walt that there were two players – a Darkness & a Lightness, or something to that effect.

    So I’m just thinking – that somehow – the Island had been the battleground for these two faces/forces – and since the failsafe – maybe – that the battleground has now moved BEYOND the Island – and THIS is why they must ‘go back’ to the Island – to do something that would somehow contain these forces and once again trap them on the Island.

    Any takers ;) ?

    Sorry for a very late post!

  443. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184056"]
    … still see people posting that Michael is not so bad… WTF? I get on a soapbox about Michael because there is no excuse at all for his crimes… With some of the others there are questionable

    … when Sawyer put a bullet into the surrendering survivor on the beach. But at that point it was war…

    … odd that no one has gotten all Medieval on Miles yet. From the nerdy Chopper guy plus Ben’s comments the Losties know something’s up… Spill the beans Ghost Whisperer.

    … Desmond… He’s dying to get off the island and has been for a long time. I don’t see him as a complicated man at all… he wants love, not intrigue.
    [/quote]

    >Great comments! I want you “on-point” on my next combat patrol in Khandahar.
    >Perfect read on Michael, remembering all of his issues with his ex… always having to have it his way, regardless.
    >Dead-on w/ the Sawyer assessment, no remorse, same w/ killing con-man dad. Hurley – “Dude… he was surrendering!” Sawyer – “I didn’t believe him.”
    >Not sure on Miles yet. He’s been a smart-mouth and twitchy, but he hasn’t really put the Losties in harms’ way (yet?). Sure the thing with the pistol when he arrived, but he just reacted because of what he was briefed before he arrived, he seems to be getting along okay (for now).
    >Disagree a little on Desmond. Avoid intrigue – yes. Return to his love – yes. But, I think he is probably the most complicated character on the island (ahead of Ben). Ben has always black and white, while Des only shows us the million shades of gray in-between, always sitting on a fence between visions/kharma and his real-world. This episode has finally shown us some Ben gray – passports, suits, currency. Will the next few episodes show us some Des Black & White? Specifically, will Desmond make a dash for home & safety the first chance he gets – abandoning the Losties to their on devices?

  444. Omar Kamel says:

    “I’m was” ?

    Sheesh. Apologies.

  445. Dany says:

    i wonder if the lost writers read this blog.. i can see them LOL at us… ;-)

  446. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="184073"]What if somehow Abbadon = The Black Smoke Monster? – which can now somehow materialize OFF the Island – maybe ever since the failsafe was activated? And what if Charlie was a manifestation of the ‘Other’ Monster or other FACE of the monster – that seen and trusted by Locke when he said he had seen the soul of the Island and that it was beautiful?[/quote]

    Hmmm. Interesting theory. Have we SEEN the smoke monster (or for that matter, seen a polar bear, or heard dinosaur noises) since the hatch exploded when Desmond used the fail safe key?

    I hope JJ/Lindeloff et al, have been keeping a log of how every single thing relates to every other thing. They publish that book when the series is over and they’ll be successful authors as well!

    : ) P

  447. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="184091"]
    Hmmm. Interesting theory. Have we SEEN the smoke monster (or for that matter, seen a polar bear, or heard dinosaur noises) since the hatch exploded when Desmond used the fail safe key?
    [/quote]
    Yes – the monster killed Eko, and it chased Juliet and Kate when they were handcuffed together. And a Polar Bear had Eko in a cave, and Locke rescued Eko from the cave early in S3.

  448. DocH says:

    Just a few quick SPOILER FREE “what-ifs”.

    What if the team on the rescue freighter isn’t really 80 or so miles off-shore anymore? What if they have actually managed to get quite a bit closer than we’ve imagined? What if they have actually managed to get a landing party onto the Hydra Island?

    [[ I know rockets and that wasn't an 80 mile rocket - more like a 7-9 mile rocket, at best. If they are basing on Hydra, Franks' statement "I'll get you off the island" makes sense, in response to the question "Will you take me to the freighter?" That also may fit with the "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" clue about following an exact (new?) heading (not the heading we all thought). Hydra Island gives the new invaders a stable "foothold" to start filtering people (POW) and the technology (plundered, they start bringing off the island. Where next? Freigher Tots taking submersibles to the Looking Glass Station? ]]

  449. Rita says:

    DocH: YES!!! I think you are right! I thought so earlier when I said they may be going to a different island (to be captive there?). Also, didn’t Naomi’s helicopter ditch in the ocean after she bailed out? ToeKnee reminded me that there was a storm when this chopper was trying to land, but I still think the island caused their problems landing.

  450. cely says:

    Ok, remember the last episode of season 3, Jack told Kate that they had to go back…he was desperate for going back to the island…

    But then the first episode for season 4, he went to Hurley to see if he had told someone, and Hurley said “he wants us back”, and Jack didn’t want to hear more about it…Charlie told Hurley “they need you”…

    So for some reason Jack wanted to go back first, and then he didn’t…

    Jacob has to be some kind of doctor/vet/scientist, if u look closely (first epi.- season4), you can see him sitting down, with white shoes, and that dog paint that we all know…could it be jack’s father? remember his body disappeared, or what about the japanese guy from the dharma’s iniciative videos….we haven’t know anything from him…

    i found very interesting that comment about Danielle’s daughter…”it’s been 16 years already?”
    Maybe time is faster in the island…Jack told Kate “it feels like it’s been 100 years” when they were at the plane crashed right before the heli appeared.

  451. Rita says:

    Cely, I dont’ think those flash forwards were in chronilogical order: Jack had a beard in the S3 episode, but not in S4 episode, but he tells Hurley that he wants to grow a beard.
    What I wonder about Danielle is, if it has been 16 years for her on the island, why has she never been to see “Otherville”, or any of the Dharma stations. She told Sayeed in S1 that she had never seen “the others”, but has only heard them. Why hadn’t she gone looking for Alex? She became a sort of island Rambo. She could have found out a lot more of what was going on during 16 years.

  452. Rita says:

    I think Danielle (and Desmond) will be much bigger players than we have thought to date. Danielle said she was from a research vessel – Dharma? I think she MUST know more than she has said so far.

  453. cely says:

    Rita i think you’re right, specially Danielle, if you noticed, she talks to Ben with kind of a closeness, like they knew before, i mean the guy took her child, she should be more resentful…

    Maybe she was part of his team, or maybe she’s the one at the boat…
    Maybe he is the father…

    But i’m sure they have a history….

  454. cely says:

    With all the theories about the time difference, i think it must be something simpler, i mean, i really admire you guys coming up with all those numbers, but me as a common viewer, i would expect to understand what’s going on…so it has to be something in between, i mean complicated but simple to esplain too.

  455. avalanche says:

    hammer- yeah, i asked for some physics help about post 140. laura answered but seems to think stuff is about magnetics. i’m not sure what the magnetics issue does to time.

    what about complex physics could suggest one observer seeing something happen (ie: the rocket landing at the beacon.) at one at one elapsed time and another observer seeing the same action and it taking a longer elapsed time? i understand that i don’t understand.

    it seems to me that this experiment of daniel faraday’s is exemplifying how newtons view of time is inadequate. time is not independent of space and light. somehow spacetime is being distorted. is this from magnets? then why do the phones work in “real” time?

  456. Laura says:

    [quote comment="184069"]avalanche – I’ve been working on this one too. I can’t figure out why the rocket took so long while talking to Regina with no delay…need physics help. In fact if Ben’s newpaper video wasn’t a hoax, he is also talking to his underling with no delay.[/quote]

    Although the conversation seemed immediate, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light (3×10^8), including radio waves. This means that if indeed the rocket was traveling at a speed high enough for relativistic effects (time delay, etc.) it would have to have to reach the losties before the rocket.

    I still believe that the giant magnetic (HO?) plays a part, especially because we “know” from the writers that this is indeed a big factor in the story.

    Then again, for all we know, the course was off (or the magnet affected the course) and Locke picked up the rocket, changed the time and let it back off into space. Maybe this is why Dan was so insistent that Frank take “exactly the same bearing” because he knew that the spacial locations on the island were different than expected…

    who knows, but a time warp is physically impossible. Not to say that everything on LOST is “real” but I feel like the writers try their best to be SCIENCE based fiction, and I feel like they would have really missed the mark here to make this much of a scientific stretch.

    If only one day I’m smart enough to make it on Hammer’s top lost bloggers list… ;)

  457. Laura says:

    excuse me… I meant to say “This means that if indeed the rocket was traveling at a speed high enough for relativistic effects (time delay, etc.) ***the rocket would have to reach the losties before the sound.***

  458. JustinRoepel says:

    Ok, my two cents on the helicopter crashes.
    Both crashes occured during storms over the island.
    I’m not sure the island itself is causing aircraft to crash.
    1) Oceanic 815 crashed due to the magnetic pulse caused when Desmond
    didn’t punch the numbers in quickly enough.
    2) Dharma is/was still air dropping supplies to the hatch. The aircraft
    that delivered the food/rations to the hatch didn’t crash when it flew over
    the island (one would assume that it did this many many times.)
    3)The helicopter takes off again as if nothing was wrong and doesn’t crash as
    Desmond and Sayid are flying out to meet the frieghter tots.

    Maybe the 2 helicopter crashes were caused by the island/Jacob… But from what we’ve seen, aircraft can and do fly over the island without incident.

    I hope this posts. A previous attempt got caught in a spam filter. :-(

  459. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184116"]
    … What I wonder about Danielle is, if it has been 16 years for her on the island, why has she never been to see “Otherville”, or any of the Dharma stations… She became a sort of island Rambo. She could have found out a lot more of what was going on during 16 years.
    [/quote]
    Danielle (allegedly) had Alex shortly after she arrived and after she lost her crewmates. She can’t get to the others in the “Barracks” because of the electric (magnetic?) fence that surrounds the barracks. I like the Rambo reference and have always thought of her as such. I think she wasn’t getting access to the stations/hatches because she was in a survive & defend mode… she did get to the Radio Tower though, and seemed familiar with some of the “Hatchies” (thnx l’chicka) like Mikhail. She did take immediate command of Sayid when she snared him. I thought they had built a good relationship over the months, but this episode I noticed that she was the one that marched Sayid, at rifle point, into the rec room with Ben & Locke. I guess they are on the outs… unless they are in cahoots?

    sidebar: If Alex was born on the island to Danielle, and neither has left, then they are in the same “timeframe”. The time dilation issue would not be apparent. I’ve always thought that Danielle had a sort of retro (1940’s) look to her (look at her original rifle). That part of the South Pacific was still being discovered & explored by the French around WWII. Danielle seems to have that kind of persona. (jokingly – she’s the mama of Jacque Cousteau too).

  460. Miraks says:

    Maybe the tots assumed Jack found out about the Sox winning from Naomi? After all, she was with them for a couple of days, so it would be quite logical that she would fill them in on what has been happening. Thus Jack asking “did the Sox really win…” would not be that big of a surprise.

  461. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184136"]
    … Both crashes occured during storms over the island.
    … I’m not sure the island itself is causing aircraft to crash.
    … still air dropping supplies to the hatch… aircraft that delivered the food/rations to the hatch didn’t crash when it flew over the island
    … helicopter takes off again as if nothing was wrong and doesn’t crash
    … Maybe the 2 helicopter crashes were caused by the island/Jacob… But from what we’ve seen, aircraft can and do fly over the island without incident.
    [/quote]
    All good points.
    >I agree that both helos were in storms. Were they natural storms (tropical) OR unnatural (E-M)? The will of Jacob, Island, etc…? As a result solely of a helo being there?
    >Acft don’t have to fly over a target to drop supplies. You can drop from very high altitudes with high chute openings (HAHO), and high winds and drop (offset) from the target by 30-40 miles. Effectively avoiding the “snowglobe effect” of the island.
    >Lightning strikes are not fatal to acft very often (much less than 1%). Frank was already having storm troubles… not a crash, per se. Helo was good to go after systems check.
    >New thought – think Old Faithful geyser. The island is like that, only with electro-magnetics, not superheated steam. Old Faithful goes every 91 minutes or so… the Island every 108 minutes. The Swan hatch was the regulator to keep the effects controlled. Now the “Old Island” blows whenever the heck it feels like it. Sometimes a little, other times – big storms. Why would the second helo tell Jack & Kate, -we will be right there-, if a storm was a brew?

  462. tsol says:

    RE THE Times on the rocket counters….
    I dont profess to have a brain for maths but i noticed a couple of things.

    1. Divide ‘island time’ by 0.77777777777777777777777777777778 and you get 3.15.

    2. Notice you are ‘enter(ing) 77′ haha

    3. There are 31 7’s. 3+1=4 one of the numbers!

    4. There are 9.8 lots of 2hrs 45 mins in a day. times this by the 100 days on the island that is 980 blocks of 2.45.hrs….stick with me!
    Now like before divide this by 0.77777…78 and we get what should be ‘real time’ = 1260 ‘blocks’ of 3.15.

    Now divide, 980 by 2.45 = 400. 4+0+0=4
    And divide, 1260 by 3.15 = 400.

    5. But what is more strange is if we work in minutes.

    2.45=165 mins
    3.15=195 mins

    By simple division we see 1 minute of island time is equal to 1.18181818181818182 mins of real time.

    144000 mins (100 days) on island yet off island we have had 170181.819 mins.

    Therefore, 100 DAYS ON THE ISLAND IS ONLY 118 DAYS IN REAL TIME. NOT 2/3 YEARS.

    Am i losing it or does this work out? would be happy to share my calculations.

  463. tsol says:

    [quote comment="184165"]RE THE Times on the rocket counters…

    Therefore, 100 DAYS ON THE ISLAND IS ONLY 118 DAYS IN REAL TIME. NOT 2/3 YEARS.

    Am i losing it or does this work out? would be happy to share my calculations.[/quote]

    This realisation does however throw out any Walt is older theories.

    Is it not just inevitable that a young teenager in a show over 3/4 years is gonna age, despite only 100 days having past on the show?

  464. Rita says:

    Thanks DocH for the intel on the helicopters/aircraft. However, it is quite a coincidence that the freighter tots launched 2 choppers and BOTH of them encountered storms that jeopardized their landings (one was lost). Just makes you wonder.

  465. lost chicka says:

    my take on desmond not being bombarded with questions by frank about not being on the manifest is that since desmond was on a race around the world, his dissapearance would’ve most likely been publicised. and i’m sure with how easily jack told frank that sayid was from iraq and a torturer, he’d tell frank about des.

    tsol (415): huh. i never thought about that before. i just figured he gave ‘em miles but they did take everyone hostage, and that wouldn’t be good bargaining to take what you already have on locke’s hand. hmmm… what could sayid have given him? what frank and danielle and miles told them? locke does want to know more about the freighter tots. becames locke’s spy on the ship? he did say he hadn’t chosen his side yet. torture miles? i hope not. give locke raspberry tea? idk.

    ravihans (416): it would be the ULTIMATE twist if locke was the next member of the 06 (ben is not one of the 06, he wasn’t on oceanic and has been coming and going for apparently a while so wouldn’t need that to get off the island.) but why would locke want off the island? he’d go back to being a cripple. he has no meaning off the island only on. i suppose if walt told him he would go off the island. unless he sees the real walt who has no clue what he’s talkin about and realizes that he wasn’t talking to walt. i could see it coming as the ultimate shocker, i just don’t know why…which would be why it could be the ultimate shocker!

    toeknee (429): ok, but the dharma thing ran from about 1960s-1990s right? and during the end of that time kelvin was a soldier at war in iraq. correct? so how could that work?

    PJSander (431): ok going with charlie is alive and miraculously made it through the looking glass explosion, i could see him having to “stay dead” to protect his friends. and if he’s protecting his friends he could be working with ben, like sayid. only charlie must convince the 06 to go back to the island. maybe jack’s drinking himself away cuz he saw charlie, and none of the losties were ever told that charlie lived….but, i know this is gonna sound awful, but i want charlie to be dead. he died and i don’t want anymore people never dying like patchy.

    bobola (432): ok i’m feeling defiant so….i don’t like michael and i don’t like what he did. but his story was interesting i guess looking back. his was mostly a story of how far would he be willing to go for his son, reminds me a bit of John Q. both did questionable acts to save their sons and were willing to do whatever it took. i don’t think it was worth 2 lives to get his son back, but michael had been trying to keep his son and keep in contact with his son for 10 years (?). he finally got his son and so far while walt’s been in his custody he’s been in a plane crash, not rescued, and kidnapped so i’m gonna guess that michael is feeling like a failure and was willing to do whatever to get his son back and prove that he was a good father……..there are no absolute good or bad people. people are not absolutley good or bad, but a mixture of both……..but you’re right about the war zone and somebody needs to get some answers from the freighter tots, i’m surprised sayid or desmond didn’t do that. locke or sawyer even when they had charlotte and miles…….if the freighter tots tho are there to take the losties off, i don’t think tying em up is gonna make it happen any faster. and you don’t want to make an enemy when they can “save” you. and sayid said he hadn’t decided yet whose side he was on, and apparently he ends up on ben’s. i think he wants to go see what is going on on the freighter.

    dany (445): yeah, if they would they’d be like “haha, they think they know the 06 is! little to do they know….” “we got them good, they’re never gonna see are twist!” lol. :)

    rita (451/452): i don’t think danielle has told us everything. maybe, like claire, she was abducted by the others but “forgot” and now she just knows that if she wants to survive she just needs to stay clear of the others. she’s probably trapped others before (as she did ben), seen them before if they gave her team the disease and stole them, and knew without a doubt that ben was an other (i think/want her to be annie!).

    cely (453): yes. the answer at the end must be complicated but able to be explained simply. and it can’t end like the sopranos!

    i am perfectly content right now to have absolutely NO clue what’s going on with the physics. it’s complicateed, makes no sense to me, and i’m content to be clueless. ignorance is bliss! :) i like the magnets theory that laura has, tho. it’s easy. magnets make things go wacky. i like that. :) and like she’s said magnets have been a factor of the show…..and you can be on my top list laura if i can be on yours.

  466. Bobola says:

    I don’t think anyone mentioned this;
    Why the hell would the nerdy Chopper dude (is it Frank?) set up his target for the rocket right next to where they are standing?
    That was dumb. Most scientists I know are much brighter in general.

  467. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="184069"]avalanche – I’ve been working on this one too. I can’t figure out why the rocket took so long while talking to Regina with no delay…need physics help. In fact if Ben’s newpaper video wasn’t a hoax, he is also talking to his underling with no delay.[/quote]

    DocH had this to say back in post 63:

    Radio comm travels @ ~186,000 miles per second vs. a mach 2 rocket @ 20 miles per minute. the radio call would still be almost instantaneous with a tenfold time delay, while the much slower rocket would go from a few minutes to half an hour.

    Sounds good to me…..:)

  468. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="184205"]I don’t think anyone mentioned this;
    Why the hell would the nerdy Chopper dude (is it Frank?) set up his target for the rocket right next to where they are standing?
    That was dumb. Most scientists I know are much brighter in general.[/quote]

    Something’s definately up w/ Danny boy. Perhaps he’s some kind of autistic savant off the island. Afterall, he needed a “caretaker”. What seemed weird to me was that nobody else thought it was that big of a deal–even after it landed!

  469. Laura says:

    I don’t know if any of you read this (it is a link from lostpedia) about deleted scenes from the pre-cut version of the Economist episode. Very Interesting!

    The thing I wanted to point out however, was the fact that originally the time difference was placed at 31 seconds, and it was changed to 31 minutes. If this is truly caused by a time-warp (which again, is not physically possible!!!) and the writers changed it this drastically, this last minute… they have an awful lot of things to figure out. I highly doubt that if this were some major time warp at the core of the show and responsible for all the craziness that is lost… that the writers would take such a risk to change such a major factor so drastically, so last minute.

    http://www.docarzt.com/lost-news/lost-403-the-economist-a-delet.php

  470. Laura says:

    [quote comment="182731"]From Wikipedia (about Michael FARADAY):

    In 1845, he discovered the phenomenon that he named diamagnetism, and what is now called the Faraday effect: The plane of polarization of linearly polarized light propagated through a material medium can be rotated by the application of an external magnetic field aligned in the propagation direction. …This established that magnetic force and light were related.

    Faraday did not work with relativity, as I said before this was Einstein’s thing… he was born ten years after Faraday died. Faraday worked with magnetism, and light (hence the “scattering light” comment).[/quote]

    Yes, I’m quoting myself… but I wanted to elaborate.

    Michael Faraday’s theory, say:

    if a giant magnet was applied to a field of light, the light can ROTATE, and this will appear oriented differently than they “really” are.

    I’ve seen experiments on this stuff, small scale of course, but it has scientific background… must more lost-writer-like.

    It would also definitely account for Daniel’s comment about scattering light, as well as the obvious name connection, and finally explain why locations on the island are strange. Odd locations could explain the extra time it took for the rocket to return… why did Regina this it would take 30 seconds? Was she looking at some sort of GPS system (like the one on the phones), maybe this is affected…

  471. avalanche says:

    if a giant magnet was applied to a field of light, the light can ROTATE, and this will appear oriented differently than they “really” are.

    I’ve seen experiments on this stuff, small scale of course, but it has scientific background… must more lost-writer-like.

    It would also definitely account for Daniel’s comment about scattering light, as well as the obvious name connection, and finally explain why locations on the island are strange. Odd locations could explain the extra time it took for the rocket to return… why did Regina this it would take 30 seconds? Was she looking at some sort of GPS system (like the one on the phones), maybe this is affected…[/quote]

    laura-thanks for the posts. i appreciate all your thoughts and agree to the science based aspect of lost.i can see how a distortion might give the gps a mislead–but if the light was disrupted by a large magnet to fool the observer would time also be disrupted. the speed of light is a constant but gravity affects light around planets and black holes and don’t we measure everything else (time)against this constant. wouldn’t a magnet that large create a time anomaly–not warp per se but something.

  472. stephanie says:

    [quote comment="183968"][quote comment="182028"][quote comment="181975"]
    I can’t debate who the “he” is. However I will try the Ben is a “good” guy theory.

    Ben tells Sayid, “you want to help your friends don’t you?” If Ben is good, he can’t be referring to the Oceanic survivors, he’d have to be referring to some other group of people. Why you ask?

    The show is about the Oceanic survivors. We as viewers then hope that the survivors make it back to civilization. Now other hopes may have come up, but the main idea is to get them back. Locke is part of the Oceanic survivors.

    Is Locke a “good” guy? I would say yes. His actions are consistent with doing good. Helping a druggie stay off drugs, trying to save Oceanic survivors from the impending doom, etc.

    Ben shoots Locke leaving him for dead. End of Ben being good in my book. There is a laundry list of deeds done by Ben that, even under the guise of “protecting the island” still come off as fanatical. Kiinda like how terrorists apparently view their actions to be “good”, even though the world over believes them to be bad.[/quote]

    The Following may sound dumb or may be pretty wild.
    But i have to get this out of my chest and now i’m puttin it down.

    The writers/ prodcuers mentioned there will be a huge cliffhanger at the end of the 8th episode.

    now we’ve seen Jack, Kate, Hurly, Sayid and Quite twistedly BEN already out of the Island!!!

    Now WHo expected that??

    And this proves, AGAIN- That The LOST writers are some of the greatest story telling/twisting geniuses on the planet.

    Okay here is the BIG IDEA.

    There is ONLY ONE PERSON LEFT TO BE REVEALED.
    Cuz There can be ONLY 6.
    THE OCEANIC 6.

    They Gave us FIVE quite easily. already.
    And doesn’t that mean that the 6TH oNE REVELATIONS WOULD BE A COMPLETE WHOAA!!! Moment where nobody would Guess or predict…

    the BIG IDEA.

    I think the 6th member of the OCEANIC 6.
    is LOCKE.
    John Locke.

    throw in what you think…
    This ouwld be the ultimate twist, ladies & Gentlemen..[/quote]

    they have only showed 4 of the oceanic 6, ben was not part of oceanic, he was already on the island.

  473. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184280"]
    they have only showed 4 of the oceanic 6, ben was not part of oceanic, he was already on the island.
    [/quote]
    Do we really know if anyone is one of the Oceanic Six. I’d wait until a little later in the season (season finale?), to see if/when they have a press conference on the show, or a newscast, that announces the actual Six.

    So far, we’ve only seen three that have claimed to be one of the Six. Jack, Hurley and Sayid. I think that Jack and Hurley both are genuine Sixers. Jack used his comp to fly to SW Asia every weekend, and declared such to his stewardess (easily verified). Hurley was under duress with his police situation and it was one of the first things he declared to law enforcement (easily verified).

    Ben was never on the flight, so I doubt that he would be authenticated as a genuine Sixer as Ben Linus, HOWEVER, we have seen him with fake passports. Perhaps he generated another false ID to match someone on the manifest that died. This would require the other five Sixers to lie on his behalf though. ID theft could be his ticket off-island, OR, he could simply leave the same way he has been doing it for years (Looking Glass?).

    We haven’t seen Kate declare to be a Sixer in a flash-forward, though she may very well be. She and Jack have currently gone separate ways on-island – does she return to Team Jack. In the flash-forward the ‘he’ she refers may be Ben. She could have returned the same way he did (Looking Glass?) – claiming she was never on OA815.

    Sayid is currently ‘selling his soul’. We see him on a future Team Ben. He declared he was a Sixer – but only to the man he was about to assasinate – not publicly. He may very well be a Sixer, but if he followed Ben off the island (Looking Glass?), his return to the world may be as clandestine as Bens’ or Kates’.

    Sixer? – Not a Sixer? my vote:
    Jack – almost certainly,
    Hurley – almost certainly,
    Kate – probably, maybe not,
    Sayid – maybe so, maybe not,
    Ben – probably not, barely maybe.

  474. stephanie says:

    [quote comment="184341"][quote comment="184280"]
    they have only showed 4 of the oceanic 6, ben was not part of oceanic, he was already on the island.
    [/quote]
    Do we really know if anyone is one of the Oceanic Six. I’d wait until a little later in the season (season finale?), to see if/when they have a press conference on the show, or a newscast, that announces the actual Six.

    So far, we’ve only seen three that have claimed to be one of the Six. Jack, Hurley and Sayid. I think that Jack and Hurley both are genuine Sixers. Jack used his comp to fly to SW Asia every weekend, and declared such to his stewardess (easily verified). Hurley was under duress with his police situation and it was one of the first things he declared to law enforcement (easily verified).

    Ben was never on the flight, so I doubt that he would be authenticated as a genuine Sixer as Ben Linus, HOWEVER, we have seen him with fake passports. Perhaps he generated another false ID to match someone on the manifest that died. This would require the other five Sixers to lie on his behalf though. ID theft could be his ticket off-island, OR, he could simply leave the same way he has been doing it for years (Looking Glass?).

    We haven’t seen Kate declare to be a Sixer in a flash-forward, though she may very well be. She and Jack have currently gone separate ways on-island – does she return to Team Jack. In the flash-forward the ‘he’ she refers may be Ben. She could have returned the same way he did (Looking Glass?) – claiming she was never on OA815.

    Sayid is currently ‘selling his soul’. We see him on a future Team Ben. He declared he was a Sixer – but only to the man he was about to assasinate – not publicly. He may very well be a Sixer, but if he followed Ben off the island (Looking Glass?), his return to the world may be as clandestine as Bens’ or Kates’.

    Sixer? – Not a Sixer? my vote:
    Jack – almost certainly,
    Hurley – almost certainly,
    Kate – probably, maybe not,
    Sayid – maybe so, maybe not,
    Ben – probably not, barely maybe.[/quote]
    I LIKE YOUR WAY OF THINKING…

  475. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="184165"]
    4. There are 9.8 lots of 2hrs 45 mins in a day.[/quote]
    This is actually not correct – if you’re breaking the day into 9.8 segments (not that I know why you would), this gives you 2.45 hours, or 2 hrs 27 min. No offense, tsol, but I don’t really see the point of all of this. You seem to be taking a bunch of more or less random numbers and performing some arbitrary calculation – am I missing something? Aside from that, I agree that there may be some ratio between island time and real time, but what that ratio is and how it’s determined….I have no clue, and I don’t think we’ve been given enough info to know for sure.

    On the other hand, I agree with cely in comment #454 (“I think it must be something simpler”). If it’s too complicated, 99% of the viewers would stop watching.

    Yet, on the other hand (for those of us who have 3 hands), your commnet, tsol, was comment #462, and 4 is one of “the numbers”, and 6+2=8 is another “number”, so you must be onto something!

  476. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="184156"]Maybe the tots assumed Jack found out about the Sox winning from Naomi? After all, she was with them for a couple of days, so it would be quite logical that she would fill them in on what has been happening. Thus Jack asking “did the Sox really win…” would not be that big of a surprise.[/quote]
    I had thought about that too, but then I figured it’s not very likely that a woman from the UK would be knowledgeable about baseball in the US. (no offense to women from the UK intended)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [quote comment="184204"]
    toeknee (429): ok, but the dharma thing ran from about 1960s-1990s right? and during the end of that time kelvin was a soldier at war in iraq. correct? so how could that work?
    [/quote]
    Kelvin was a soldier in the first Iraq war (aka Gulf War), which took place in the early 1990’s. I think your estimate of Dharma running until the 1990s is correct, so the timing may have been that Kelvin came on board just before “the purge”. Somehow people in the Swan Hatch (i.e., Kelvin) were unaffected by and unaware of the purge, so they continued pushing the button.

    [quote comment="184205"]I don’t think anyone mentioned this;
    Why the hell would the nerdy Chopper dude (is it Frank?) set up his target for the rocket right next to where they are standing?
    That was dumb. Most scientists I know are much brighter in general.[/quote]
    LOL! I thought about that too – they all seemed pretty nonchalant about a rocket coming in at 500 mph or whatever speed and landing just a few feet away. Maybe Daniel and Frank had witnessed this before and knew not to worry. But if I’m Jack – I run away or seek shelter when I see that thing heading for me!

  477. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="184097"]Just a few quick SPOILER FREE “what-ifs”.

    What if the team on the rescue freighter isn’t really 80 or so miles off-shore anymore? What if they have actually managed to get quite a bit closer than we’ve imagined? What if they have actually managed to get a landing party onto the Hydra Island?

    [[ I know rockets and that wasn't an 80 mile rocket - more like a 7-9 mile rocket, at best. If they are basing on Hydra, Franks' statement "I'll get you off the island" makes sense, in response to the question "Will you take me to the freighter?" That also may fit with the "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" clue about following an exact (new?) heading (not the heading we all thought). Hydra Island gives the new invaders a stable "foothold" to start filtering people (POW) and the technology (plundered, they start bringing off the island. Where next? Freigher Tots taking submersibles to the Looking Glass Station? ]][/quote]
    I thought the freighter was only 8 miles off shore in the first place.

  478. Rita says:

    I’m sure we can all agree that tomorrow night can’t come soon enough! Can’t wait for more lost, and more clues!

  479. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="184240"]I don’t know if any of you read this (it is a link from lostpedia) about deleted scenes from the pre-cut version of the Economist episode. Very Interesting!

    The thing I wanted to point out however, was the fact that originally the time difference was placed at 31 seconds, and it was changed to 31 minutes. If this is truly caused by a time-warp (which again, is not physically possible!!!) and the writers changed it this drastically, this last minute… they have an awful lot of things to figure out. I highly doubt that if this were some major time warp at the core of the show and responsible for all the craziness that is lost… that the writers would take such a risk to change such a major factor so drastically, so last minute.[/quote]

    I heard about the change from 31 seconds to 31 minutes and watched that section of the show afterwards. Here’s my take: I believe JJ/Lindeloff/Cuse rarely make mistakes. They work too hard to plan everything. I don’t think it was a “last minute change” at all. I think that the pre-released episode that went to the press was INTENTIONALLY changed to reflect the WRONG time to throw them off. Then the original was restored for our viewing. If you watch / listen to that clip, it doesn’t sound / look like a dub.

    Here’s another theory: what if the helo-4’s “flashbacks” weren’t all flashbacks? Miles and Daniel’s flashbacks MIGHT have been flashforwards. The footage Daniel was watching of the wreckage MIGHT have been old footage that the media was re-hashing because the Oceanic 6 had been found?

    Just a thought.
    : ) P

  480. deangoodes says:

    In regards to the rocket, Frank and Jack seemed to retreat a few steps and take cover under some trees. And Frank did mention that Daniel had done this (presumably without incident) on the freighter numerous times.

  481. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="184129"]excuse me… I meant to say “This means that if indeed the rocket was traveling at a speed high enough for relativistic effects (time delay, etc.) ***the rocket would have to reach the losties before the sound.***[/quote]
    Well you weren’t on my list with 456, but the 457 correction gets you there. :)

    Actually this is the type of stuff I was asking for, I’m reading from two different computers and getting my little green triagle mixed up apparentl because I missed DocH’s and your posts about this.

  482. PBella says:

    “The part that gave me issues, was the ole fall in love with the enemy, but not really story line with Sayid and the German woman. I mean she shoots him and casually gets on the phone with her boss, knowing Sayid was there to kill him or her? Couple old guy’s uneasiness, with her knowledge of him being a killer, means she should be on her toes.”

    — I don’t think it was a case of not staying on her toes. If you remember, Elsa (the german) didn’t think that Sayid could speak or understand German. Which he clearly can. He wanted her to believe that he didn’t understand her. Which is why from the very first minute he met her he let her know that “Is this seat taken” is about the extent of his German. She felt she could talk to her boss at that point in German, thinking he didn’t understand.

  483. Get Lost! says:

    [quote comment="184418"][quote comment="184165"]
    4. There are 9.8 lots of 2hrs 45 mins in a day.[/quote]
    This is actually not correct – if you’re breaking the day into 9.8 segments (not that I know why you would), this gives you 2.45 hours, or 2 hrs 27 min. No offense, tsol, but I don’t really see the point of all of this. You seem to be taking a bunch of more or less random numbers and performing some arbitrary calculation – am I missing something? Aside from that, I agree that there may be some ratio between island time and real time, but what that ratio is and how it’s determined….I have no clue, and I don’t think we’ve been given enough info to know for sure.

    [/quote]

    I agree, but 24 (hrs) divided by 2.45 is 9.778.
    I was trying to find the ratio but soon realised it was easier to work it out in minutes. Unless the writers explain the time lapse is not running at a constant, then it would conclude that only 118 days have passed off the island. Well spotted tsol!

  484. RGS says:

    [quote comment="184468"]I don’t think it was a case of not staying on her toes. If you remember, Elsa (the german) didn’t think that Sayid could speak or understand German. Which he clearly can. He wanted her to believe that he didn’t understand her. Which is why from the very first minute he met her he let her know that “Is this seat taken” is about the extent of his German. She felt she could talk to her boss at that point in German, thinking he didn’t understand.[/quote]

    I don’t think it mattered whether he understood german, she shot him knowing he was a killer. It’s her mindset that is in question. For me I categorize that as a minor lapse, for tv entertainment purpose. Sorta like them waiting for the payload to land near the helicopter, their apparent only way on and off the island. Little too risky, especially since they know instruments act whacky on the island.

    I agree with the earlier posts that address that the “solution” has got to be easy enough for the casual viewer to understand.

  485. vavila says:

    [quote comment="182181"]

    barb: i agree. it was christian’s a voice then slowly turned into ben’s when we see him. what does that mean? he’s possesed by jacob?

    quote]

    Maybe Jacob manifests in different ways? Maybe in that scene Jacob manifested in Ben (then how do we know when Ben is Ben and when Ben is Jacob)? Maybe Walt is another manifestation of Jacob? Maybe, so are the dead people who appear? Maybe even smokey is Jacob’s manifestation? Ahhhh! Love the show!

  486. Omar Kamel says:

    No takers on my previous suggestion? Damn!

  487. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="184496"]No takers on my previous suggestion? Damn![/quote]
    Omar, way back when Des turned the key and the hatch blew we had some pretty lengthy discussions about what that would mean. So far, IMO we know that it allowed Penny’s people and the freighter tots (if they are different) to see where/when the island resides. I think it also lead to Ben shutting down the communications to the outside. So it is conceivable that it also held in old Smokey…I’m not ready for this theory yet…but it’s a good thought.

  488. Terry says:

    [quote comment="182555"]Oh and yes….remember when people commented last year about how the island is a healing place (no wheelchair for locke, no cancer for rose) and yet Ben got the tumor….now we realize that Ben HAS been going back and forth, hence the tumor…not sure why he couldn’t have surgery off the island, however, unless he knew something about healing powers on the island (after back surgery) vs. healing powers off the island…
    And, obviously, Ben did not let others know he was going back and forth…(hidden closet and all)…[/quote]

    I am wondering if the 31 minutes has something to do with how long Ben can be off the island without losing its ‘special properties’ that seem to heal etc etc……..?……

  489. Rita says:

    [quote comment="184505"][quote comment="182555"]Oh and yes….remember when people commented last year about how the island is a healing place (no wheelchair for locke, no cancer for rose) and yet Ben got the tumor….now we realize that Ben HAS been going back and forth, hence the tumor…not sure why he couldn’t have surgery off the island, however, unless he knew something about healing powers on the island (after back surgery) vs. healing powers off the island…
    And, obviously, Ben did not let others know he was going back and forth…(hidden closet and all)…[/quote]

    I am wondering if the 31 minutes has something to do with how long Ben can be off the island without losing its ‘special properties’ that seem to heal etc etc……..?……[/quote]
    Not sure whether or not others know that Ben leaves from time to time. The two woman from the looking glass hatch were suppose to be on assignment in Canada and we know that Richard Alpert goes off island (at least to recruit Julliette).

  490. vavila says:

    [quote comment="183563"]I don’t think this has been covered but isn’t there a difference between the different color passports that ben has in his secret room? I think that some of those colors represent military… looking for a screen cap now.[/quote]

    Some else spoke about this before and mentioned that in some countries one color is used for regular passports and another for diplomats. I don’t know about that, but generally different countries have different color passports: red in Russia, green in Brazil, blue in US and Kenya, etc, so i think they were passports from different countries, maybe someone has a pic of that scene then we can identify the passports…

  491. imaginary says:

    I don’t know why some people think kate is not one of the 6 she was off the island and I don’t think ben is one even with his phony passports.
    ohyeah and the “he” kate is talking about may possibly be her child, after all she said sawyer may have gotten her pregnant.

  492. imaginary says:

    [quote comment="184473"][quote comment="184468"]I don’t think it was a case of not staying on her toes. If you remember, Elsa (the german) didn’t think that Sayid could speak or understand German. Which he clearly can. He wanted her to believe that he didn’t understand her. Which is why from the very first minute he met her he let her know that “Is this seat taken” is about the extent of his German. She felt she could talk to her boss at that point in German, thinking he didn’t understand.[/quote]

    I think Elsa already knew he was after her boss when she met him, they were just playing mind games with each other the entire time

  493. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184444"]
    I thought the freighter was only 8 miles off shore in the first place.[/quote]

    According to the network that airs LOST:
    [QUOTE] — At the beach camp, Sayid talks to the parachute woman. She says her name is Naomi Dorrit, and that her freighter is about eighty nautical miles west of the island. — [UNQUOTE]
    Source: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recaps S3E19 The Brig.

    I didn’t remember “NAUTICAL” being mentioned, but here is the transcript of the line.
    Naomi: “A ship…freighter, about 80 nautical miles west of here. I’m part of a search and recovery team.”

    80 nautical miles (NM) is a tad over 92 statute mile (SM). That will take just under an hour for Frank to fly the Huey (helo) that far. He will be close to min fuel when he gets there, if they are still that far out. At sea level, he could easily add two more passengers and make it (or one Hurley).

  494. Hammer says:

    [/quote]I think Elsa already knew he was after her boss when she met him, they were just playing mind games with each other the entire time[/quote]

    I thought so too, typical Bond spy vs. spy scene.

  495. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184514"]
    Some else spoke about this before and mentioned that in some countries one color is used for regular passports and another for diplomats. I don’t know about that, but generally different countries have different color passports: red in Russia, green in Brazil, blue in US and Kenya, etc, so i think they were passports from different countries…
    [/quote]
    I agree – many countries, many colors, but many countries have more than one color.
    Blue in the US for citizen/personal travel.
    Red in the US for official US Govt travel (incl Military).
    So, any Govt employee/Mil person would have to have BLUE for “personal” travel and a second for “official business” travel outside of US territory.

  496. Hammer says:

    “80 nautical miles (NM) is a tad over 92 statute mile (SM). That will take just under an hour for Frank to fly the Huey (helo) that far. He will be close to min fuel when he gets there, if they are still that far out. At sea level, he could easily add two more passengers and make it (or one Hurley).”

    Does this change the figures used to compute the time delay or did anyone take distance into account?

  497. DocH says:

    I figured normal sea-level flight out of my H-1 pilots checklist. I did not even attempt to “time dilate” the issue. I still figure the freighter will have to move closer someday. Here is a thought. Say the freighter IS driving closer to the island at, lets say 15 mph. But now it is time dilated much slower… 10-fold? 30-fold? That slows it down to 1.5 mph or 0.5 mph. It could takes days, a week, even two to reach the island.

  498. Dany says:

    [quote comment="184525"][quote comment="184473"][quote comment="184468"]I don’t think it was a case of not staying on her toes. If you remember, Elsa (the german) didn’t think that Sayid could speak or understand German. Which he clearly can. He wanted her to believe that he didn’t understand her. Which is why from the very first minute he met her he let her know that “Is this seat taken” is about the extent of his German. She felt she could talk to her boss at that point in German, thinking he didn’t understand.[/quote]

    I think Elsa already knew he was after her boss when she met him, they were just playing mind games with each other the entire time[/quote]

    She also may have suspected him, remember the scene before they were going out (at the opera? can’t remember) and she’s about to leave her pager at home..but sayid offered to carry it… maybe she was testing him… but if she was suspicious, she should have been more careful.. a spy shouldn’t be so unprepared…

  499. Miraks says:

    Some thought. I’m not quite sure waht this means, but maybe some of you can figure it out.

    It seems that whenever someone tries to enter or leave the island, there is a storm.
    -the last two helicopters
    -Desmond got stranded on the island during a storm
    -Mr. Hale in his balloon (I know it was Ben pretendiing to be him, but I think that part of the story was true- the guy had crash-landed there during a storm)
    -in season 1 our Losties encountered a storm when they tried to leave on the raft (maybe how the Others knew where they were?)
    -Juliette is told it will be “a bumpy ride”
    -Echo’s brother’s plane looked like it had been through a storm
    -maybe the Black Rock (?)
    -815 encountered turbulance before crashing (during an otherwise beutifull sunny day)

    Seems like the island is somehow causing storms all around itself (to protect itself?). Not sure if this could have something to do with the delay of the rocket? I’d love to read what you think!

  500. lost chicka says:

    miss kim (468): he could be autistic. there are different levels of autism. daniel doesn’t have very good people skills, as autistic people don’t. people might not notice because his autism isn’t cured and he’s the same on and off island.

    ok so, the oceanic 6 is jack, hurley, and sayid for sure. kate could be one since she was on the plane and was shown off island, and it would appear that she is. ben has been off island before and wouldn’t need a cover of being a part of the oceanic 6 to go to and from the island.

    vavila (485): and maybe all the losties are manifestations! nooo….but if jacob can manifest into different people (and we have never actualy seen that happen) Lost could get really confusing realy fast!

    couple of questions: could the “eskimo” guys be working for both abadon and penny? or was naomi actually hired by penny and used her to get the cordinants to get to the island?

    imaginary (492): i think you’re right. they were both doing their jobs, but sayid got a little caught up in it and ended up caring about her. i think they both planned on killing the other one, that’s the only reason any smart girl would go with a head hunter to an opera!

  501. skweez says:

    Kate is def. an O6. Remember at the end of S3 Jack told her about the “golden ticket” they gave THEM.

  502. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="184547"]It seems that whenever someone tries to enter or leave the island, there is a storm.
    [/quote] Well there was no storm when 815 went down, it was bumpy ’cause the magnet was pulling it apart. So I’m thinking no, but a great thought process.

  503. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="184554"]Kate is def. an O6. Remember at the end of S3 Jack told her about the “golden ticket” they gave THEM.[/quote]

    Well, MAYBE. It could well be that ALL the passengers from Oceanic 815 that got off the island got Golden Tickets, but only six of them are willing to be “alive” to the public as the O6. “Oceanic Air” ran a tv ad (during the show following LOST) saying that viewers could qualify for a golden ticket. That may be our way of seeing that just because someone has a golden ticket, doesn’t mean they are part of the O6.

    I don’t want to go against the spoiler rules by discussing the specifics of the trailer (from the end of The Economist) for tomorrow night’s episode, but just because someone has “one of the most recognizable faces” in America, doesn’t mean it was because that person is a member of O6.

    I’m just saying .

    29 hours, 4 minutes and 35 seconds ’til I find out !

    : ) P

  504. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="184554"]Kate is def. an O6. Remember at the end of S3 Jack told her about the “golden ticket” they gave THEM.[/quote]
    Yep, think you’re correct. I’m curious to see how they playoff her fugitive status when she gets home.

  505. LOST24 says:

    [quote comment="184547"]Some thought. I’m not quite sure waht this means, but maybe some of you can figure it out.

    It seems that whenever someone tries to enter or leave the island, there is a storm.
    -the last two helicopters
    -Desmond got stranded on the island during a storm
    -Mr. Hale in his balloon (I know it was Ben pretendiing to be him, but I think that part of the story was true- the guy had crash-landed there during a storm)
    -in season 1 our Losties encountered a storm when they tried to leave on the raft (maybe how the Others knew where they were?)
    -Juliette is told it will be “a bumpy ride”
    -Echo’s brother’s plane looked like it had been through a storm
    -maybe the Black Rock (?)
    -815 encountered turbulance before crashing (during an otherwise beutifull sunny day)

    Seems like the island is somehow causing storms all around itself (to protect itself?). Not sure if this could have something to do with the delay of the rocket? I’d love to read what you think![/quote]
    _______________________________________________________

    Oceanic Flight 815 was brought down by an accidental release of electromagnetic charge. Someone correct me if wrong, but this occurred when Desmond killed someone outside of the hatch and then made it back shortly after the clock had ticked down from 1:08. Maybe I misremembered?

  506. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184554"]
    Kate is def. an O6. Remember at the end of S3 Jack told her about the “golden ticket” they gave THEM.
    [/quote]

    Good call!

    transcript reads –

    Jack: “I’ve been flying a lot.”

    Kate: “What?”

    Jack: “Yeah that golden pass that they gave us. I… I’ve been using it. Every Friday night I… I fly from LA to Tokyo or Singapore or Sydney… and then I… I get off and I… have a drink and then I fly home.”

  507. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="184560"]
    Oceanic Flight 815 was brought down by an accidental release of electromagnetic charge. Someone correct me if wrong, but this occurred when Desmond killed someone outside of the hatch and then made it back shortly after the clock had ticked down from 1:08. Maybe I misremembered?[/quote]
    No correction needed, it wasn’t a storm that got 815. But here’s something to ponder. 815 was an “accident” but the island security may detect intruders which starts storms?

  508. PJSander says:

    Okay, I can’t get ABC.com to show me ANY past episodes – oh, I can watch the commercials over and over, but the episode itself never loads. I went to YouTube and watched the “flashbacks” for the helo-4. I think it is *possible* that they are all flashforwards. What if the discovery of Oceanic 815 underwater was created AFTER the helo-4 go to the island?

    It’s a longshot, I know.

    : ) P

  509. skweez says:

    DocH.. .you’re too good!

  510. RAY says:

    I have to admit I haven’t read all 508 posts. I will tell you one of my theories, if it’s already on here, then I apologize.

    I’m thinking Ben travels back and forth from the island to the real world through a “wardrobe.” There is obviously a connection with C.S. Lewis. And in one episode last year Ben talked about a box that can give you your wildest dreams or something like that. The wardrobe would explain how they got Locke’s father onto the island. It would also explain how Ben was getting back and forth so quickly with his passports to different countries without the other “others” knowing. It would also explain why sometimes Jacob appears to be on the island and sometimes not.

    Just a theory.

  511. Rita says:

    DocH: Just when I was convinced that Kate is NOT an 06 – She and Jack seem to be meeting pretty clandestinely, at the end of a runway. She doesn’t seem to be out in the open (not so far anyway).
    Ray: I’m not convinced the others don’t know that Ben comes and goes. They don’t seem to think it is unusual for people to be in Canada on assignment for example.

  512. dukewm says:

    OK here we go: took me a while to think this through and write
    Pertinent to Lost24 (#505)

    The TIME-WARP THEORY:
    Obviously there IS “some” type of time distortion on the Island?
    Dharma’s HO experiments evidently set up some kind of electro-magnetic “shield” that made the Island invisible/hard to find and/or possibly impossible to

    return to from the outside EXCEPT for entry by protected means.
    This “shield” is a “bubble” around the Island that CONTAINS the electro-magnetic “force”.
    When Des found his “Swan-mate” (I can’t think of his name right now) down by the “Fail Safe” key, he asked what happened and the guy said there was “a leak”

    and the reason they had to push the button every 108 minutes was to relieve the build-up of the electro-magnetic force.
    If the button wasn’t pushed within the 108 minutes, they had 4 more minutes to enter the numbers into the microprocessor (the “System Failure” stage) to

    prevent the ENTIRE “force” from being RELEASED.
    (Remember) When Des was looking over the printed logs in the Swan, he told Locke he may have caused 815 to crash by pushing the button AFTER “System

    Failure”. The log read “0922044:16″ , or SEP 22, 2004 @ 4:16 (there’s 2 of those numbers again in the time stamp).
    The log included instances when the button was NOT pushed in time to prevent a SIGNIFICANT RELEASE of the force, during the “System Failure” stage.
    It was these SIGNIFICANT RELEASES of the “force” that caused the wreck of at least 2 ships and 2 planes (Black Rock, Des’s Sail boat Elizabeth, the Cessna in

    the trees and O-815).
    Then, when Des turned the “Fail Safe” key and blew the hatch, the “shield” was disabled, the “force” was RELEASED in a massive explosion and is currently

    affecting the Island by distorting light (Frank’s comment), warping time (the 31 minute discrepancy on the rocket experiment) and discharging severe

    thunderstorms (brought down 2 Helicopters).

    On AGING I:
    I do NOT think Richard Alpert came in on the Black Rock because Danielle DID and she has been on the Island only 16 years. Richard must have been there

    longer than Ben who has been there for a good 30 years (if you can trust his apparent age of 40 something now, compared to about 12 years old when he landed

    with his dear old dad).
    Alpert could just be the Island’s Dick Clark (who looked the same for about 40 years).
    Danielle had Alex on the Island without trouble similar to Claire/Aaron.
    Alex has aged relatively normal (as has Ben) making me believe that time is actually the same “on Island” as “off Island” (i.e. a year is a year in real

    time).
    There just seems to be a “shift” or distortion in terms of actual time of day, which is explained by my argument above.

    On AGING II:
    How does a 26 year old womb appear to be 70 something years old ?
    An indication that Island time would be FASTER, not SLOWER, on the order of say, 9 months = 50 years.
    If I stick by the theory that time goes by normally, I have to admit I can’t explain that OR,
    Pregnant women somehow age at an accellerated rate due to the influence of the electro-magnetic “shield”.

    The WIDMORE INFLUENCE:
    Penny’s father is deeply involved.
    I don’t mean to rehash every detail from previous episodes but it’s coming together in light of recent reveals.
    Des is DESPARATE to get off that rock to find his babe.
    Mr. Widmore tempted him to sail around the world to prove his worthiness AND plotted his “race course” to steer him to the Island.
    Widmore then tracked Desmonds progress and ordered the button to enter the “System Failure” stage knowing the Island’s electro-magnetic force would pull his

    sail boat aground and leave him stranded.
    He then may have brieffed Penny that Des was “LOST” at sea due to some electro-magnetic “force”. (that’s how Penny knew enough to “hire” 2 guys to monitor

    some detection equipment from Antarctica (or wherever it is they are stationed).
    Then, when Des turned the “Fail Safe” key and blew the hatch, the “shield” was disabled, the “force” was RELEASED in a massive explosion and the 2 guys in

    Antarctica called Penny and told her they think they “found it”. Their monitor had some numbers above the phrase “electro-magnetic anamoly detected”. I

    think the numbers were 744416666 or something like that (if that’s significant?).
    Penny sure looked puzzled when Charlie asked her if she had sent the Freighter, so I’m thinking the Freighter Tots were sent by Mr. Widmore either to put Des

    in another “predicament” or just have him killed.
    Abbadon works for Widmore.
    Des is in serious trouble as he heads for the Freighter. Hope he escapes the impending peril, I like him.

    DO I make ANY sense ?

  513. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="184548"]ok so, the oceanic 6 is jack, hurley, and sayid for sure. kate could be one since she was on the plane and was shown off island, and it would appear that she is. ben has been off island before and wouldn’t need a cover of being a part of the oceanic 6 to go to and from the island.

    [/quote]
    OK, so those of us who read the whole blog, we agree on this. May I suggest we stop trying to correct those posting other lists. If they have read all the comments so far they would have seen this too many times to count and posted my many.

    I agree with Lost Chicka’s assesment on who the O6 are. Can we let this one go until we have a new episode with new input?

  514. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="184561"][quote comment="184554"]
    Kate is def. an O6. Remember at the end of S3 Jack told her about the “golden ticket” they gave THEM.
    [/quote]

    Good call!

    transcript reads –

    Jack: “I’ve been flying a lot.”

    Kate: “What?”

    Jack: “Yeah that golden pass that they gave us. I… I’ve been using it. Every Friday night I… I fly from LA to Tokyo or Singapore or Sydney… and then I… I get off and I… have a drink and then I fly home.”[/quote]

    The us Jack refers to in this comment could be “THe O6″ not “Jack and Kate.”

  515. cely says:

    I don’t think is the storm that causes the helis to fell down, but i do think the rain has an important rol in the show…
    it’s almost as if the island is making a point, just comes and goes so sudden and in critical moments, like the island is making a statement about the moment…

    Another thought, remember Hurley’s drawing at the mental institution? it was an igloo and an esquimo, maybe after all they were rescued by penny’s people…

    Also i son’t think Sayid and Des are actually getting out…they probably will have some problems and land somewhere else…

  516. lost chicka says:

    dukewm: danielle didn’t come to the island on the black rock: it’s a slave ship and from the 1800s. danielle isn’t from the 1800s and she was a scientist – not quite the same thing as a slave trader.

  517. Miraks says:

    I understand that there was no storm when 815 crashed, BUT that was under special circumstances (ie, the button not being pushed). I think the fact that any time someone comes/ crashes on the island, or tries to leave the island, there is a big storm they run into, means something. Otherwise it’s just plain bad writing and I don’t think that is the case.

  518. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184591"]
    The us Jack refers to in this comment could be “The O6″ not “Jack and Kate.”
    [/quote]

    Again… I agree.

    Therefore I stick w/ my original assessment

    Sixer? – Not a Sixer? my vote:

    Kate – probably, maybe not,

  519. lostlaur* says:

    Random:

    – I’ve never trusted Danielle. I think she’s nutty & self-serving. Why does nobody really seem to take offense that she admits to killing everyone on the boat. Supposedly they were sick & it was a “mercy killing”, but ALL of them? And she didn’t catch it with a weaker immune system as a pregnant woman?
    If I hadn’t seen my daughter in 16 years I sure as hell would not be traipsing around the jungle with the man who stole her. Especially if that man is about to be in the middle of a war.
    Have the losties totally forgotten she stole Claire to try & trade Aron for Alex?? I understand she was desperate & hadn’t talked to a human in years blah blah blah but SERIOUSLY that is grounds for at LEAST making sure you never turn your back on her again. Certainly not make her part of your army when she will obviously screw over whoever she needs to for her own best interests.

    -Why did Penny hire two men in Antartica to look for Desmond? I’ve never understood this. That is SUCH a random place & as far as I know there aren’t really any advantages to being in the middle of nowhere to try & find someone who is in a totally different middle of nowhere. Plus how are they going to find Desmond with a computer? It’s not like they can see his body with a Google Earth program or contact him with it.

    I agree we PLEASE let the Oceanic 6 thing go. There are certain aspects of the show that we just cannot puzzle out. We don’t know everything yet, so no matter how genius we all may be we can’t deduce it from the info they’ve given us…

    ONE MORE DAY!

  520. cely says:

    If it’s how Dukewm says about Widmore behind Abbadon, then why would they look for Ben? Although that would explain how Naomi had the picture of Des and Penny…

    About the time issue in the island, i have my doubts about the theory that says that the island runs in a different pace than the real world…it would be hard to believe, i mean, what about the girls? with all due respect, but they must have suspected something after not getting their periods or getting it too often, or how would you explain the inner organs?

    About Alpert not aging, he has been getting out of the island like Ben, we don’t know how often, but we know he has been out, he should be aging, maybe is his special gift from the island, just like to Locke be able to walk, Rose’s cancer, visions of Des, Hurley and Lubby mentally healed, Sun pregnant….

    Just a thought of course…

  521. cely says:

    lostlaur, i think you’re right!

    now that i think about it, she might even be threatened by Ben, maybe she had to kill everyone in order for her daughter to live, even if it was far away from her…

    ohhhh! sounds right, that would explain why she is not THAT resenful with him, i mean she hates him, but in a “i hate you for making me do what i had to do” way.

    It will also explain why she did not get the infection…with Ben’s help!

    cool!

  522. Rita says:

    Since a connection to CS Lewis’s Narnia Tales (with the magic wardrobe)seems obvious, we might consider that in that story, the time was never consistant between one world and the next. As I remember it, when the children traveled from one world to another, ANY amount of time might have passed, from a month to a thousand years (but NO time was ever passed in their own world when they returned to it, it was just as they left it). There was never a formula to account for it. Could be that the time shift here works the same? Not consistant from on/ off the island? That would open up some interesting possibilities.

  523. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184602"]Random:
    – Why did Penny hire two men in Antartica to look for Desmond? I’ve never understood this. Plus how are they going to find Desmond with a computer?
    [/quote]

    I don’t think she hired JUST two men in Antartica, I think she has folks worldwide on alert. Some say it was Russia, some Iceland, some others say Southern Chile. The alert was “Magnetic Anomaly Detected”. That had a number, our “magic numbers” multiplied by one another, in front of it. Folks said the terms the two men used were not from Portugal. Brazilians said they did not use Brazilian / Portagee slang. Most agree it was two English speakers “acting”, using poor dialect. With teams around the world (using computers) and Des gone LOST somewhere in the South Pacific, Penny was simply hoping to triangulate his locale. The only other Portuguese connection I know is NAOMI… there it is.

  524. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="184056"]I still see people posting that Michael is not so bad, that he did what any parent would have done….
    WTF? There are a lot of sick people out there.
    Sorry but my kid is not going to be part of a trade if it depends on me killing two women who did nothing to harm me. No way.
    And trying to justify what Michael did by pointing out the real mixed bag of violent acts for others is a weak attempt to muddy the waters.
    I get on a soapbox about Michael because there is no excuse at all for his crimes. With some of the others there are questionable cirmcumstances.
    I’m certainly no Pacifist when it comes down to survival. I would not harm anyone for no reason, but if I felt threatened I would act. I think the majority of shots fired were justified, some not. I’m not for giving anyone a blanket amnesty but there are clear cut cases to me.

    And posters who want to think that there is no good or bad absolutes are silly; this series is all about good and bad but they also want to make it hard to tell the motivations and thus the possible justifications.
    Some are clear as when Hurley drove in to save his friends during the Beach fight; others can be argued over, like when Sawyer put a bullet into the surrendering survivor on the beach. But at that point it was war and if it were me on an island fighting and I’d just heard that my prisoner moments before was trying to talk his buddies into killing me; then that prisoner would be killed as fast as Sawyer did. No nonsense for me, I’m fighting just as dirty as the enemy. But then Sawyer knows the score from being in Prison; you often don’t get a second chance to be wrong in a war; and this island is a war zone. Funny how some characters get this and some never will.
    [/quote]

    I am just wondering why you concider Michael Pure evil and the others just doing what they need to. Is there any one else on your pure evil list?

    Michael killed Anna Lucia to get Walt back because Ben told him he had to. Libby was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and Michael killed her in order to get away. Certainly these are two murders and not nobel in any way. Remember, Michael is not dealing with your reality so his imput is dirrerent. He has been stranded on a island by a plane crash for over 44 days. In this time they have encountered giant invisible monsters in the woods, several deaths of survivors including a mercy shooting (the marshall), the pilot, Boone, Shannon being shot. Charlie killing Ethan, Sayed beeing captured by Danielle and the mysterious others and the kidnapping of his son.

    Let’s put that aside for now.

    Sayed is killing pepple on a list to protect his friends. How is this different than Michael killing to protect his son.

    If you say that Sayed killed before to protect his family but that was war so it is justified than isn’t Michael killing also justified. You yourself have used the reason that they are at war to defend Sawyers murders, and Hurleys. I agree about Hurley by the way.

    If Ben is bad than isn’t Sayed as guilty of wrong as Michael because he kills for Ben? If you agree that those that Sayed is killing should be killed or that they are bad then dosn’t that meen that Ben is working for the “greater good.” If so, Ben told Michael to kill Ana Lucia. Couldn’t that have been for the “greater good” also.

    We don’t know what Ben told Michael, or Sayed, to make them kill for him but I think it will be a “ah ha” moment when, and if, we find out. We also don’t know if Ben didn’t put Michael in room 23 and brainwash him before he killed Ana Lucia.

    My question is, why was Locke so willing to put a knife in Naomi’s back when he couldn’t even consider killing his father. I think his decisions on who to listen to and why is key to his understanding of the island. Unless he is just fickel.

    Two observations.

    Locke is using what he learned in Sawyers dossier to manipulate him. Ie: “lets just shoot him now. In front of his daughter.”

    Jin has started speaking english.

  525. dukewm says:

    Another Thing:
    Didn’t Daniel tell Frank to take a 325 degree bearing to get back to the Freighter (or wherever he was taking Sayid & Des) ?

    Ben told Michael to take a 325 degree bearing when he took the small boat from their dock.

    If the Helo was relatively close to the dock and the Freighter was 80 NM +/- to the northwest, then perhaps Ben’s
    “man on the boat” IS Michael, which I thought all along.

    Another instance where we get clues or tidbits of info that relate back to clues from earlier Episodes. The writers test our memories and attention to details in order to formulate (and possibly confirm) our theories. It’s a jigsaw puzzle all right !

  526. skweez says:

    I like your thoughts… Especially the whole Widmore connection.

  527. skweez says:

    [quote comment="184679"]Another Thing:
    Didn’t Daniel tell Frank to take a 325 degree bearing to get back to the Freighter (or wherever he was taking Sayid & Des) ?

    Ben told Michael to take a 325 degree bearing when he took the small boat from their dock.

    If the Helo was relatively close to the dock and the Freighter was 80 NM +/- to the northwest, then perhaps Ben’s
    “man on the boat” IS Michael, which I thought all along.

    Another instance where we get clues or tidbits of info that relate back to clues from earlier Episodes. The writers test our memories and attention to details in order to formulate (and possibly confirm) our theories. It’s a jigsaw puzzle all right ![/quote]

    Yes, a jigsaw puzzle indeed. I’ve been watching prior episodes from all 3 seasons for the past 2 nights to make some connections. I’ll post a doozy after tomorrow’s episode. And no, I’m not talkin about spoilers, either!

  528. dukewm says:

    cely, lostlaur, DocH etal:

    The WIDMORE INFLUENCE I outlined above (Comment #512) assumes that Penny somehow found out about the electro-magnetic experimentation either by deduction (knowing at least part of her fathers business) or he just told her. THAT”S why she hired the “Antarctica Team” (and perhaps others in different parts of the world) to monitor for electro-magnetic anomalies. Antarctica would be a good place to monitor the southern hemisphere.

    Why do they want Ben ?
    Don’t think we know that yet

    If Penny obtained coordinates from the Antarctica “detection” and is NOT behind the Freighter . . . then what IS she doing to find Des ?

    Is she going along with Dads’ efforts for now ?
    (she must be suspecting (or know) Dad is behind the Freighter)

    What’s her plan to “rescue” Des from Dads’ influence ?

  529. Miss Kim says:

    Just thinking about “island time” vs. “real time” and how Baby Aaron would fit in. Charlotte’s comment about “You had him on the island” must have meant something. Aaron was born 1 month after the plane crash. Charlotte must really be up on what infants look like to make the observation she did without having some kind of prior knowledge about something. Maybe, like Frank, she had memorized the passenger list and knew w/ great certainty that there were no newborn infants…maybe she knows something else. Just thought it was kind of strange. Also, the biblical Aaron is the great-great-grandson of Jacob. Interesting.

  530. Miss Kim says:

    Hmmmmm. Still thinkin’ about Baby Aaron and pregnancy loss on the island. I know that there has been a lot of talk about Holmium and it’s strong magnetic properties lately. I am aware of the purported benefits of magnet therapy to improve health and fight disease, but every site I checked warned about using magnet therapy during pregnancy. Even MRI’s are not traditionally done on a pregnant woman because of unknown potential health risks. Maybe the ultra strong magnetic force is the key to the pregnancy problemos on the island.

  531. dukewm says:

    lostchicka (516): you’re right, I must have brain-farted on the Danielle/Black Rock comment. My only point was that she has been “on Island” for 16 years and Alex has aged normally.

    Was it circusmom (349) who first posted the Black Rock passenger list ? In any case, good info and IF true, we can assume Richard, Miles and Daniel all know each other and are VERY old.

    Now if THAT is true . . . What properties about the Island have kept them alive all these years long BEFORE Dharma arrived ?
    Richards’ appearance must NOT depend on the electro-magnetic “force”.
    Miles and Daniel must have spent significant time “on Island” and be members of the original “Hostiles”.

    Can anyone corroborate/prove the Black Rock passenger list ?

  532. DocH says:

    More thought(s). Charlotte bugs me. What does she really do?

    Transcripts:
    Ben: “Her name is Charlotte Lewis! Charlotte Staples Lewis. Born July 2nd, 1979, Essex, England. Parents David and Jeanette. Eldest of 3, all girls. She was raised in Bromsgrove. Did her undergraduate studies at Kent. Took her PhD in Cultural Anthropology at Oxford. She’s here with 2 other team members and a pilot. Their names Daniel Faraday, Miles Straume, Frank Lapidus.”

    Wiki says –
    cultural anthropology – the branch of anthropology that deals with human culture and society.
    anthropology – the social science that studies the origins and social relationships of human beings.

    She is 28.5 now. In island time (Dec 04?) 25.5 yrs old (too young for PhD?). Why is she on the team? Study the Purge, Dharma, Natives, Black Rock, 4 Toed Statue folks, aliens???

  533. dukewm says:

    Sorry Miss Kim – meant to credit you for 349

  534. Miss Kim says:

    dukewm: Thanks, but the original credit goes to RGS in post #322. Is that widmore website “for real” or a hoax? At first I thought I was onto something, but then I figured it was not “official” LOST info.

  535. Miss Kim says:

    DocH: I think that in England formal (mandatory)education is over at age 16. There is post-16 non-mandatory education available for students wishing to continue their education before University, but I don’t think it is necessary to complete before going to “college”. England’s Bachelor’s degrees are offered for three years of study, Master’s for four. Doctorate’s are aprox. 3 years additional study. Charlotte could have been done w/ her PhD by the time she was 23 years old. She bugs me too.

  536. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184718"]
    Was it circusmom (349) who first posted the Black Rock passenger list ? In any case, good info and IF true, we can assume Richard, Miles and Daniel all know each other and are VERY old. Can anyone corroborate/prove the Black Rock passenger list ?
    [/quote]

    it was 349… i will kindly call u both suckers. Hammer, ToeKnee and Co. gave u all clues to do your h-work. The Widmore Labs web is considered a parody. Hidden at the bottom of the page it says “This site is also officially unofficial, whatever that means. If you don’t want your mind expanded beyond 27 diagonal inches, you should leave immediately”.

    They have already pulled Faraday and Strom (Straume) from the imaginery list. What they do is research spoiler sites and casting call sites and siphon off names to use.

    Check
    http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Category:Parody &
    http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Category:Hoax
    often to see what the sites that are NOT considered authentic.

  537. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184724"]DocH: I think that in England formal (mandatory) education is over at age 16… England’s Bachelor’s degrees are offered for three years of study, Master’s for four. Doctorate’s are aprox. 3 years additional study. Charlotte could have been done w/ her PhD by the time she was 23 years old. She bugs me too.[/quote]
    I count 26 yrs to a PhD (16+3+4+3) Tunisia could have happened as part of her Doctoral work. My REAL question… Why is she on the team? Miles = Ghost Whisperer, Daniel = Physics Guru. Charlotte = ???

  538. Circus Mom says:

    Charlotte is there to find out how the island has shaped it’s own society and to help her team navagate it. People on the island don’t behave as you woluld expect people to in a civilized place. You don’t often see people in a city or town dividing into tribes, running around with guns and killing each other on a daily basis. OK, so gangs do it, but society as a whole frowns on this behavior.

  539. Laura says:

    Well anthropologists study culture, and why one society has come to act the way that it does. What could be a better study than a real life “Lord of the Flies” (which losties are looking more and more like… with two distinctive groups.) Take that background and add the archaeological (digging up the polar bear) plus the obvious knowledge of dharma… at least in some respect (the whole collar thing). that is why Charlotte is theree!

  540. GuyFandango says:

    Apparently Mark Trail has also discovered this time anomaly: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22318976@N08/2279664991/

    on a bizarre side note Mark Trail is the official spokescharacter for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)

  541. DocH says:

    I am not sure. I think the Freighter Tots may just be fresh lab rats in a controlled experiment. New data points. ‘Uniquely Skilled Variables’ introduced to stir things up amongst the senior lab rats. They do seem particularly unqualified for Team Naomi-Abbadon, tactically speaking.

  542. Circus Mom says:

    Lost Chicka I don’t think Michael had been trying to get Walt back for ten years. At the airport in Sydney he called his mother and was saying he didn’t want/need this. He didn
    t want to be stuck with a son he didn’t know. Walt heard him and this caused some of the problems they had early on after the crash. He grew to love Walt while on the island.

    I can’t find the comment but someone recently suggested that Daniel and someone else were actually flash forwards. This can’t be true. In Daniel’s flash back his caretaker asks, “What happened? Did they find that plane?” and Naomi had told the losties that the plane had been found with no survivors when she landed on the island. Charlotte read about it, Miles heard on the radio and Frank watched on TV. They all had to be flashbacks.

  543. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="184731"][quote comment="184724"]DocH: I think that in England formal (mandatory) education is over at age 16… England’s Bachelor’s degrees are offered for three years of study, Master’s for four. Doctorate’s are aprox. 3 years additional study. Charlotte could have been done w/ her PhD by the time she was 23 years old. She bugs me too.[/quote]
    I count 26 yrs to a PhD (16+3+4+3) Tunisia could have happened as part of her Doctoral work. My REAL question… Why is she on the team? Miles = Ghost Whisperer, Daniel = Physics Guru. Charlotte = ???[/quote]

    Doc: 16+4+3 is 23. A Bachelor’s degree in England is three years of study. A Master’s degree requires one additional year of study after the bachelor’s degree. (16 + 4 bachelor’s/masters + 3 doctoral = 23.) Sorry if I wrote it in a confusing manner.

  544. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="184590"]
    OK, so those of us who read the whole blog, we agree on this. May I suggest we stop trying to correct those posting other lists. If they have read all the comments so far they would have seen this too many times to count and posted my many.

    I agree with Lost Chicka’s assesment on who the O6 are. Can we let this one go until we have a new episode with new input?[/quote]
    I second (or third, after lostlaur*) this motion! Kind of like guessing who’s in the coffin.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [quote comment="184591"]
    The us Jack refers to in this comment could be “THe O6″ not “Jack and Kate.”[/quote]
    I agree with this one too – “us” is an ambiguous term.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    [quote comment="184664"]
    Locke is using what he learned in Sawyers dossier to manipulate him. Ie: “lets just shoot him now. In front of his daughter.”
    [/quote]
    GREAT observation! I hadn’t caught that aspect of this statement but you’re absolutely right. This is definitely the type of thing Ben would say, so it serves as another example of the Losties adapting the ways of the Others.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Based on these 3 posts, Circus Mom gets my nomination for “Poster of the Last 24 Hours”.

  545. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="184602"]Random:

    – I’ve never trusted Danielle. I think she’s nutty & self-serving. Why does nobody really seem to take offense that she admits to killing everyone on the boat. Supposedly they were sick & it was a “mercy killing”, but ALL of them? [/quote]
    In general I agree that Danielle is nutty and may not be trustworthy. But, I don’t have a problem with the fact (if it is a fact) that she killed the rest of her science team. I take her at her word when she basically describes it as a mercy killing. If it wasn’t a mercy killing, then why would she confess to killing them herself? If she committed a mass murder, she’d make up some other story, like the Others killed them.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [quote comment="184679"]Another Thing:
    Didn’t Daniel tell Frank to take a 325 degree bearing to get back to the Freighter (or wherever he was taking Sayid & Des) ?

    Ben told Michael to take a 325 degree bearing when he took the small boat from their dock.
    [/quote]
    Daniel didn’t give Frank a number, he just told Frank to follow the exact same bearing on which they came to the island.

  546. Toeknee says:

    For those of you who are interested in these things, a new podcast came out a few days ago, and Damon and Carlton are on this one. But I have to warn you that there was some pretty spoilerish stuff revealed – they clarified some of the issues that are being debated on this particular thread.

  547. dukewm says:

    Thanks DocH (#537): I’m glad we can put the Black Rock “List” to rest.

    This is the ONLY site I’m following for my LOST “fix” (it takes enough time to just keep up here). Don’t intend to research any further elsewhere, so I’ll gladly welcome any corrections to elements of my posts.

    That “List” was keeping me awake last night anyway because:
    1. Are we really supposed to believe Richard, Miles, Daniel (and other Black Rock ‘survivors’) are 200 +/-years old ?
    2. Has the Black Rock actually been there since the 16th/17th century or was it a more recent wreck of a ‘vintage’ sailing vessel ?
    3. IF the Black Rock had been there for 200 years it obviously wrecked due to storm and NOT due to Dharmas’ electro-magnetic ‘Program’
    4. Why doesn’t Richard seem to age ?

    * 4. above suggests “Island Time” is a much SLOWER pace than “Real World Time”
    * 26 year old wombs appearing to be ’70 something’ suggests “Island Time” is much FASTER than “Real World Time”
    * Alex and Ben appear to have aged at normal rates suggesting that “Island Time” elapses the SAME as “Real World Time”

    As I stated in my Comment #512 . . . I’m sticking with the basic ‘Time is the same ON and OFF Island’ theory until proven otherwise (60 minutes is 60 minutes).

    Richards’ appearance COULD just be genetics.
    The clock discrepancies shown in Daniels’ rocket experiment COULD have been affected by the electro-magnetic “force” now surrounding the area post hatch-blowing incident when Des turned the “Fail Safe” key.

    Laura (or any other ‘resident’ Science ‘guru’): Any input on the physics of how such an electro-magnetic “force” would linger/dissipate after a massive RELEASE ?

  548. Rita says:

    dukewm: If Richard et al did not come on the black rock (and I think they didn’t), then how did they get there? They aren’t really natives (Ben said in the beginning that he was the only one who was born on the island – of course, he lied). The only ones who we know REALLY WERE born on the island are Alex and Aaron. There apparently are no real natives. Who ARE these people?!

  549. skweez says:

    [quote comment="184910"]dukewm: If Richard et al did not come on the black rock (and I think they didn’t), then how did they get there? They aren’t really natives (Ben said in the beginning that he was the only one who was born on the island – of course, he lied). The only ones who we know REALLY WERE born on the island are Alex and Aaron. There apparently are no real natives. Who ARE these people?![/quote]

    I believe the “natives” were part of the experiements that dharma was conducting. I think that a group of them “escaped” and took up arms and fought with the dharma folks. They didn’t like what dharma was doing and this is why they “recruited” Ben for the Purge. Now, they’re all supposed to be working toward protecting the island as well as using it’s properties for good. However, i do recall Richard having a conversation with Ben concerning them wasting their time with the pregnant women.

  550. Rita says:

    [quote comment="184607"]Since a connection to CS Lewis’s Narnia Tales (with the magic wardrobe)seems obvious, we might consider that in that story, the time was never consistant between one world and the next. As I remember it, when the children traveled from one world to another, ANY amount of time might have passed, from a month to a thousand years (but NO time was ever passed in their own world when they returned to it, it was just as they left it). There was never a formula to account for it. Could be that the time shift here works the same? Not consistant from on/ off the island? That would open up some interesting possibilities.[/quote]
    OK, so I’m quoting myself but I still think this may be important and I may be proved right. We’ll see. But if the CS Lewis/Narnia Tales references are deliberate, then another thing to consider is that in Narnia, the wardrobe was not the only “portal” to the other world. In fact, none of the portals were in anyone’s control but rather were at the will/whim of Aslan (in our case, then Jacob?). I think that Ben’s secret closet/ “wardrobe” is very important, but keep your eyes open for other “portals”. I’m not trying to throw this all into fantasy (vs sci fi) but things aren’t always so cut and dried until we see the whole story. Thoughts please?

  551. randy says:

    [quote comment="184568"]Okay, I can’t get ABC.com to show me ANY past episodes – oh, I can watch the commercials over and over, but the episode itself never loads. I went to YouTube and watched the “flashbacks” for the helo-4. I think it is *possible* that they are all flashforwards. What if the discovery of Oceanic 815 underwater was created AFTER the helo-4 go to the island?

    It’s a longshot, I know.

    : ) P[/quote]

    I AGREE, and maybe the freighter is there PLANTING the fake duplicate ship. That might be part of their mission. who knows….

  552. Tina says:

    RE: Rita # 550:

    I think you’re on to something here. I’ve been skimming through my CS Lewis collection over the week trying to figure out if the “wardrobe” had some connection to Lost. I haven’t gotten too far with the actual time invs. time out distortion, but I think that there are multiple portals into the Island world and I definitely think they are controlled by SOMEONE on island. Perhaps that’s part of the war going on between the factions of Others. We need to remember that there are 2 groups of the Others on the Island: the Othertown Others & the Natives. Perhaps the Native Others (following Jacob?) controlled the portals and recruited Ben to help them oust Dharma from the island in order to continue bringing the “right” people to the island.

    If in fact there ARE multiple entrance portals to the island, then that explains how Desmond arrived on his round the world boat cruise, the Black Rock Crew, Danielle’s Expedition, the 4 toed Statue People, and perhaps how the Dharma Initiative arrived as well. It would also explain how the Polar Bear may have been transported to Tunisia. Maybe when your leave the island there’s no guarantee that you’ll come out the portal that you came in.

  553. Tina says:

    I almost forgot one other arrival: The Nigerian Drug Plane.

    Another thought: The Native Others are probably NOT following Jacob. I think the “Jacob” might be a construction of Ben’s consciousness. I definitely think there is some kind of supernatural force on the island but I don’t know the the Natives (the whispers) are connected to Jacob.

  554. Hammer says:

    Don’t discount natives yet. Someone built the 4 toed statue, which is pre-DHARMA. Do we assume these folks and decendents are all dead?

  555. cel says:

    Rita, if this is in anyway similar to the Narnia Chronicles, i will be dissapointed at the show…
    I don’t think it could be based in fantasy, it hasn’t been like this…maybe something with scientific bases, not even if they are very accurate, but it would be “too easy” to just blame a door that opens other worlds…
    The writers are smarter than that…

  556. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="184719"]More thought(s). Charlotte bugs me. What does she really do?

    Transcripts:
    Ben: “Her name is Charlotte Lewis! Charlotte Staples Lewis. Born July 2nd, 1979, Essex, England. Parents David and Jeanette. Eldest of 3, all girls. She was raised in Bromsgrove. Did her undergraduate studies at Kent. Took her PhD in Cultural Anthropology at Oxford. She’s here with 2 other team members and a pilot. Their names Daniel Faraday, Miles Straume, Frank Lapidus.”

    Wiki says –
    cultural anthropology – the branch of anthropology that deals with human culture and society.
    anthropology – the social science that studies the origins and social relationships of human beings.

    She is 28.5 now. In island time (Dec 04?) 25.5 yrs old (too young for PhD?). Why is she on the team? Study the Purge, Dharma, Natives, Black Rock, 4 Toed Statue folks, aliens???[/quote]
    In cultural anthropology researchers will go and live with a people for long periods of time (months and years). Their main aim is to understand a culture- to live with people and become integrated into their society, adapt to it, not to change it in any way. Margaret Mead was the pioneer in this fiel of anthropology.

  557. Rita says:

    [quote comment="185001"]Rita, if this is in anyway similar to the Narnia Chronicles, i will be dissapointed at the show…
    I don’t think it could be based in fantasy, it hasn’t been like this…maybe something with scientific bases, not even if they are very accurate, but it would be “too easy” to just blame a door that opens other worlds…
    The writers are smarter than that…[/quote]
    Cel, I don’t think for a minute that this WILL turn out to be fantasy (rather than pure science-based fiction), and if there in fact ARE portals to places/times, there will turn out to be a scientific explanation. Electromagnetism? Maybe we will see tonight.

  558. Miraks says:

    Thought on the women wombs looking older. If time really is moving slower or faster- why would their outward appearance and their organs age differently? How does that make sense?

  559. Tina says:

    [quote comment="185005"]Thought on the women wombs looking older. If time really is moving slower or faster- why would their outward appearance and their organs age differently? How does that make sense?[/quote]

    It could be that the aging selectively affects certain types of cells. That could acccount for the utero aging.

  560. Tina says:

    [quote comment="184993"]Don’t discount natives yet. Someone built the 4 toed statue, which is pre-DHARMA. Do we assume these folks and decendents are all dead?[/quote]

    Agreed! I think there’s a possibility that the “Natives” are the descendants of these four toed statue people(maybe we should all tivo the scences of them walking and count!) We need to remember that the whisperers have appeared this season, while Miles was meditating over Naomi’s corpse. They’re around, hopefully we’ll see them soon.

  561. cel says:

    Ok, how long have they been on the island? i ask because like a month later Claire had Aaron, right?
    Right now the baby is huge! he has to be like 3 months old or so…

    Like i said before, i think Richard’s not aging because it could be one of Jacobs gift to him…like to Lock, Sun&Jin, Hurley, Libby, Rose…it’s really hard to explain why he doesn’t age…

  562. vavila says:

    [quote comment="184880"][quote comment="184731"][quote comment="184724"]DocH: I think that in England formal (mandatory) education is over at age 16… England’s Bachelor’s degrees are offered for three years of study, Master’s for four. Doctorate’s are aprox. 3 years additional study. Charlotte could have been done w/ her PhD by the time she was 23 years old. She bugs me too.[/quote]
    I count 26 yrs to a PhD (16+3+4+3) Tunisia could have happened as part of her Doctoral work. My REAL question… Why is she on the team? Miles = Ghost Whisperer, Daniel = Physics Guru. Charlotte = ???[/quote]

    Doc: 16+4+3 is 23. A Bachelor’s degree in England is three years of study. A Master’s degree requires one additional year of study after the bachelor’s degree. (16 + 4 bachelor’s/masters + 3 doctoral = 23.) Sorry if I wrote it in a confusing manner.[/quote]

    I don’t think she was doing her PHD research in Tunisia.
    – Cultural antropology typically deals with ‘present’ or more current issues. If her PHD was in archeology or even Anthropology in general the she could be there for PHD but i highly doubt that just because of her degree(if you specialize in Anthroplogy in UK, then you have to study biological anthropology which deals with evolution and digging/measuring bones and could therefore specialize in this in PHD but not if you chose Cultural Anthro as you specialization a sit is very different from Bio Anth)
    – She also seemed to know a lot when she saw the collar – it seemed to be familiar to her, she maybe even expected to see it and was looking for it! (she seemed very determined to dig and look for it)
    – Most PHD students don’t give out money like that to conduct their research :) and ‘mess’ with the research site
    – I think she was either already a part of Dharma when she went to Tunisia or she somehow got very very close to what dharma was doing (as we see in Tunisia) and was then recruited as she already knew too much…
    P.S she buggs me too!

  563. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="185009"]Ok, how long have they been on the island? i ask because like a month later Claire had Aaron, right?
    Right now the baby is huge! he has to be like 3 months old or so…

    Like i said before, i think Richard’s not aging because it could be one of Jacobs gift to him…like to Lock, Sun&Jin, Hurley, Libby, Rose…it’s really hard to explain why he doesn’t age…[/quote]
    Babies have to be at least three months old before they can be used in movies (that’s why “newborns” always look so huge and pretty round headed in movies). I think that has more to do with Aaron’s size than anything else.

  564. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185008"]A(maybe we should all tivo the scences of them walking and count!) We need to remember that the whisperers have appeared this season, while Miles was meditating over Naomi’s corpse. They’re around, hopefully we’ll see them soon.[/quote]
    Actually, I spent some time freeze framing the other on the dock last season. They all had 5 toes back then, that was Ben and his group. Don’t we still think there is a band of folks still wandering around in tatered clothes?

  565. cel says:

    Are there really natives?
    Remember there was a wardrobe with all clothes ragged and dirty…they are the people living at the village with the 2 kids from the airplane, how do you know there are actually natives there?
    I think it’s just people they captured, maybe to experiment with them?
    I think the whole island concept has to do with something spiritual, like Jacob, being kind of the creator, the whisperers, maybe souls that for some reason are stuck in there…
    Maybe the black-smoke-monster is a reflection of who they are or how they see life, that’s why it kills selectively…
    I can’t wait for tonight!

  566. Hammer says:

    cel- we don’t for sure if there are natives anymore, but DHARMA didn’t arrive until the 70’s. Alpert was likely there before DHARMA, the Black Rock certainly was, and someone built the statue. So we know at least there WAS “natives”.

  567. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="185011"]
    – She also seemed to know a lot when she saw the collar – it seemed to be familiar to her, she maybe even expected to see it and was looking for it! (she seemed very determined to dig and look for it)
    – Most PHD students don’t give out money like that to conduct their research :) and ‘mess’ with the research site
    – I think she was either already a part of Dharma when she went to Tunisia or she somehow got very very close to what dharma was doing (as we see in Tunisia) and was then recruited as she already knew too much…
    P.S she buggs me too![/quote]

    This is one of the reasons that I think that the Helo-4’s flashes were flashFORWARDS not flashbacks. I think that “discovery” of the sunken plane happens AFTER they land on, and subsequently get off the island. It explains why Charlotte wants to see the papers in many languages. It explains why Daniel is dumbfounded. Frank called with non-island evidence as to why that wasn’t the pilot, but why would he even think to LOOK for the wedding ring if he didn’t know the truth. Miles hears news about the plane on the radio but does not react.

    Naomi said there were no survivors of 815, but the helo-4 don’t seem particularly surprised to see the Losties. Why would Frank have memorized the manifest? How did he get a COPY of the manifest? Maybe Oceanic (or someone) creates the fake plane and submerges it BECAUSE of events that are about to unfold – tonight even!

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    : ) P

  568. Hammer says:

    Didn’t Locke’s dad say something about the plane being found? Wasn’t it before we met the helo folks?

  569. DocH says:

    [quote comment="185013"]
    … Don’t we still think there is a band of folks still wandering around in tatered clothes?[/quote]
    Why yes we do! Jacob-fashion review. Call it pirate style, call it native style, last of the mohican style, hillbilly casual… Richard Alpert wore it when he introduced to young Ben. Jin & Eko hid in the bushes as the barefooted young mohicans marched silently by. Our snapshot of Jacob had him dressed as such. I bet if T4TS was built completely it would be wearing the same.

    ( The only thing I didn’t see was the Seinfeld “puffy” shirt. ) [;^)

  570. Hammer says:

    Not to mention (but I am) report is that all were presumed dead. Why would they plant a plane after the O6 and say they are all presumed dead?

  571. Tina says:

    [quote comment="185016"]cel- we don’t for sure if there are natives anymore, but DHARMA didn’t arrive until the 70’s. Alpert was likely there before DHARMA, the Black Rock certainly was, and someone built the statue. So we know at least there WAS “natives”.[/quote]
    I still think there are two groups of “others” the othertons & the natives (whoever they are). They might be the whisperers and/or the four toed statue descendants or descendants of the Black Rock Expedition and/or alpert’s people (maybe all one in the same) because they were definitely there when Ben was a kid just arriving on the island. When Alpert appeared to him, he was wearing distinctly period garb. I definitely think they were there BEFORE Dharma arrived.

  572. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185020"]
    Why yes we do! Jacob-fashion review… [/quote]
    Thanks DocH, I thought I may have missed something.

  573. skweez says:

    Can someone tell me what episode it is that the Others go to the temple?

  574. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185024"]
    I still think there are two groups of “others” the othertons & the natives (whoever they are)… [/quote]
    Ahhh, my trusty vets coming through…

  575. Tina says:

    [quote comment="185028"][quote comment="185024"]
    I still think there are two groups of “others” the othertons & the natives (whoever they are)… [/quote]
    Ahhh, my trusty vets coming through…[/quote]
    Nice to be back Hammer..:)

  576. DocH says:

    [quote comment="185017"]
    … Naomi said there were no survivors of 815, but the helo-4 don’t seem particularly surprised to see the Losties.
    [/quote]
    Think… I know you know this.
    A: Because when Naomi got there it was a surprise. When the B-Team got there, Jack had already been talking with the freighter, telling them that he was on 815. They sent the second helo well after they knew 815 survivors were on the island.

  577. Lost Addict says:

    [quote comment="183684"][quote We do know that he had met with Mr. Widmore and that after that he felt that completing the solo race would somehow win him the right to be with Pene. I always wondered about that too. Why would the race affect anything? .[/quote]

    According to the story line if I remember correctly, he was doing the race, b/c the payout was a lot of money that he felt would provide for him a way to be with Penny financially

  578. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185026"]Can someone tell me what episode it is that the Others go to the temple?[/quote]
    I hope I’m correct here, but it’s got to be either 1 or 2 eps. before the finale. You’ll get a better answer soon.

  579. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="185026"]Can someone tell me what episode it is that the Others go to the temple?[/quote]
    We never actually saw them go there. In the season 3 finale, Ben ordered Richard to take the remaining Others to the temple.

  580. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="185034"]
    I hope I’m correct here, but it’s got to be either 1 or 2 eps. before the finale. You’ll get a better answer soon.[/quote]
    Nice prediction :)

  581. Hammer says:

    Just found it, “The Looking Glass”. Ben tells Alpert to go there with the rest of the group of others.

  582. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185037"][quote comment="185034"]
    I hope I’m correct here, but it’s got to be either 1 or 2 eps. before the finale. You’ll get a better answer soon.[/quote]
    Nice prediction :)[/quote]
    Well the vets are out in full force. This is type of thing I was trying to tell Miss Kim the other day…this is what makes THIS blog great.

  583. skweez says:

    [quote comment="185019"]Didn’t Locke’s dad say something about the plane being found? Wasn’t it before we met the helo folks?[/quote]

    Yes, i believe it was in “The Brig” episode… He thought they were in Hell….

  584. Tina says:

    [quote comment="185032"][quote comment="183684"][quote We do know that he had met with Mr. Widmore and that after that he felt that completing the solo race would somehow win him the right to be with Pene. I always wondered about that too. Why would the race affect anything? .[/quote]

    According to the story line if I remember correctly, he was doing the race, b/c the payout was a lot of money that he felt would provide for him a way to be with Penny financially[/quote]

    It was a combination of factors:

    A. Proving himself worthy of Penny to her Father Charles Widmore.
    B. Providing for them financially

    I tend to think it was more about pride & proof and less about cash money.

  585. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185042"]

    I tend to think it was more about pride & proof and less about cash money.[/quote]
    Or MAYBE even a good excuse to separate from Penny while he does her father’s dirty work?

  586. skweez says:

    [quote comment="185045"][quote comment="185042"]

    I tend to think it was more about pride & proof and less about cash money.[/quote]
    Or MAYBE even a good excuse to separate from Penny while he does her father’s dirty work?[/quote]

    You may be on to something… I didstinclty remember Mr. Widmore calling Des a coward. Maybe this was his way of showing him that he wasn’t….

  587. DocH says:

    [quote comment="185038"]
    Just found it, “The Looking Glass”. Ben tells Alpert to go there with the rest of the group of others.
    [/quote]

    They bugged out of the barracks on their trek in 3-15, LEFT BEHIND. (Jules, Kate, Smokey, Fence)

    By THE BRIG, 3-19, they were well enroute, with Lockes/Sawyers dad in-tow. (Dad tied to pillar, kill him Locke!, Ben in Tent).

  588. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185049"][quote comment="185038"]
    Just found it, “The Looking Glass”. Ben tells Alpert to go there with the rest of the group of others.
    [/quote]

    They bugged out of the barracks on their trek in 3-15, LEFT BEHIND. (Jules, Kate, Smokey, Fence)

    By THE BRIG, 3-19, they were well enroute, with Lockes/Sawyers dad in-tow. (Dad tied to pillar, kill him Locke!, Ben in Tent).[/quote]
    You’re a beast! I think we proved that one out ‘ay?

  589. Tina says:

    [quote]You may be on to something… I didstinclty remember Mr. Widmore calling Des a coward. Maybe this was his way of showing him that he wasn’t….[/quote]

    Eh, I don’t buy it. Of all the ways to prove he isn’t a coward, he travels to an unknown island and kills a guy accidently, turns a fail safe key that blows his clothes off, starts have nightmarish futuristic predictive flashes and loses the one guy(charlie) who in effect has been his only friend on the island?

    If there’s a mole in the camp, my money isn’t on Desmond but on Kate.

  590. DocH says:

    [quote comment="184880"]
    Doc: 16+4+3 is 23. A Bachelor’s degree in England is three years of study. A Master’s degree requires one additional year of study after the bachelor’s degree. (16 + 4 bachelor’s/masters + 3 doctoral = 23.) Sorry if I wrote it in a confusing manner.
    [/quote]
    Again, I do the research. (when I knew better)
    At 16 (end of form five) you get a GED Equiv. Like you said – end of mandatory education.
    You go in to a trade school then, if you want, or,
    If you are college bound you do your last two-three years (sixth form). That is Jr-Sr year here plus a year of college prep/GCE.
    16+3=19 before you start your 3 year undergrad. The college prep year equates to college freshman “core” classes. 19+3=22 before masters grad degree. A one years masters is 22+1=23. A 3 years doctoral is 23+3=26 at the earliest. COME ON. You new there were no 23 yr old PhDs’ walking around (unless a 200 plus IQ prodigy).

  591. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="185054"][quote]You may be on to something… I didstinclty remember Mr. Widmore calling Des a coward. Maybe this was his way of showing him that he wasn’t….[/quote]

    Eh, I don’t buy it. Of all the ways to prove he isn’t a coward, he travels to an unknown island and kills a guy accidently, turns a fail safe key that blows his clothes off, starts have nightmarish futuristic predictive flashes and loses the one guy(charlie) who in effect has been his only friend on the island?

    If there’s a mole in the camp, my money isn’t on Desmond but on Kate.[/quote]
    I hear you Tina, but not Kate either for the same types of reasons as you use for Dez (ie. getting caught by a federal agent to end up on the island). It’s just an idea I’m throwing around because it’s plausible. I don’t think there are any moles. I’m leaning towards the O6 being coerced into their future actions.

  592. vavila says:

    [quote comment="185055"][quote comment="184880"]
    Doc: 16+4+3 is 23. A Bachelor’s degree in England is three years of study. A Master’s degree requires one additional year of study after the bachelor’s degree. (16 + 4 bachelor’s/masters + 3 doctoral = 23.) Sorry if I wrote it in a confusing manner.
    [/quote]
    Again, I do the research. (when I knew better)
    At 16 (end of form five) you get a GED Equiv. Like you said – end of mandatory education.
    You go in to a trade school then, if you want, or,
    If you are college bound you do your last two-three years (sixth form). That is Jr-Sr year here plus a year of college prep/GCE.
    16+3=19 before you start your 3 year undergrad. The college prep year equates to college freshman “core” classes. 19+3=22 before masters grad degree. A one years masters is 22+1=23. A 3 years doctoral is 23+3=26 at the earliest. COME ON. You new there were no 23 yr old PhDs’ walking around (unless a 200 plus IQ prodigy).[/quote]

    I belive that classes you take to pass A-levels (exams needed to get into unis in UK) are 2 not 3 year long.

    Also, in some universities your MSc can be counted as a first year of PHD (shrinkign the overall time it takes you to go from BSc/BA to PHD)

    Theoretically speaking: by 18 she passed A levels and got into uni,then 3 years to get BSc and another 3 to get PHD (with 1st year counting as MSc, which got counted towards PHD if in the same discipline).

    Does this really matter? I’m sure Ben got the facts right when he said she had a PHD….

  593. Laura says:

    [quote comment="184904"]

    Laura (or any other ‘resident’ Science ‘guru’): Any input on the physics of how such an electro-magnetic “force” would linger/dissipate after a massive RELEASE ?[/quote]

    Honestly, I don’t think much of the ‘magnetic charge release’ stuff can be explained scientifically. There
    is a pretty good page on lostpedia, it goes through a lot of the stuff that has been mentioned in different episodes and possible theories, but all in all the entire scenario was pretty farfetched (although great tv).

    In basic terms, lost writers took an idea that could somewhat work in very small terms (the buildup of electrical charges, and consistent release…) and increased the proportions to make for a better and more interesting show. While doing so, they ignored the fact that some of these things can’t really work on a large scale without throwing a lot more fundamentals out of whack, or the storyline being somewhat consistent.

    For example… it is awfully hard to understand how the magnetic field could be strong enough to pull an AIRLANE out of the sky, and for the entire dharma station to “implode”… while allowing our four losties (who were in the hatch at the time) to survive.

    I guess this sort of contradicts what I was saying earlier about believing that the writers base everything in science, when this seems to be a topic that cannot be readily explained by scientific theories… but then again this is a topic that is simple to ‘understand’ but more difficult to dispute, so maybe this is what the writers are going for…

    I still think the relativity thing is way too ‘basic’ of a principle (in physics) for the writers to so blatantly misrepresent for it to be our answer, but who knows.

    (check out the plausible mechanisms section at the bottom)
    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Magnet

  594. Rita says:

    Something has been bothering me about the polar bear in Tunesia. The collar he was wearing appears to be leather. How long does it take to break down leather? Or a polar bear? Why was the polar bear dry bones but the leather collar was fully intact? I think the collar would prove a tele-portation theory, but not sure why anyone would teleport bear bones. Anyway, Charlotte may have been involved with the teleportation (for Dharma?)and was therefore looking for the bones and the collar.

  595. cel says:

    Lock’s dad said “island? this is not an island, this is hell”, when Sawyer asked about how did he got there.
    He said he had a car accident and the paramedics injected something to him, and didn’t know anything til he was there…

    Apparently the father figure is an issue common in most losties, Jack, Hurley, Locke, Kate, Michael, Sun… obviously Ben’s issue too.

    Hammer, we don’t know if Alpert was there before Dharma, we know that by the time Ben got there, Dharma people were already there…and Alpert could have been one of Dharma’s team.

    We don’t know if the Dharma team split up for some reason, and they were considered “hostiles” maybe they were against the system.

    The fact is that Alpert doesn’t age and that is a big mystery…

  596. vavila says:

    [quote comment="185066"]Something has been bothering me about the polar bear in Tunesia. The collar he was wearing appears to be leather. How long does it take to break down leather? Or a polar bear? Why was the polar bear dry bones but the leather collar was fully intact? I think the collar would prove a tele-portation theory, but not sure why anyone would teleport bear bones. Anyway, Charlotte may have been involved with the teleportation (for Dharma?)and was therefore looking for the bones and the collar.[/quote]

    I guess bear could decompose pretty fast: especially with very hot weather and animals/insects to speed up the process. The bear bones are also quite close to the earth/sand surface, which also means that they have not been there for too long. In the movies (yeah i know a great source!) we often see decomposed bodies but clothing and accessories often ‘survive’ much better (i can see how flesh of a bear who had to die fast in such different and harsh environemnt would decompose very fast compared to collar).
    But the whole thing still puzzels me! Bear teleportation!? Charlotte!?

  597. cel says:

    When i saw the episode i thought Charlotte found that collar very easily, as if she knew it was going to be there…

    Still running in my mind when Ben told Locke about the box that can make everything possible or something like that he said, we haven’t seen that magic box yet…

  598. cel says:

    Oh! and i don’t remember who mentioned about Jacob being with ragged clothes, but when Hurley look into the window we could get a glimpse at him wearing a tie, like a suit and white shoes…is he going to ve a vet? a doc? scientist? we’ll see….

  599. dukewm says:

    [quote comment="185065"][quote comment="184904"]

    Laura (or any other ‘resident’ Science ‘guru’): Any input on the physics of how such an electro-magnetic “force” would linger/dissipate after a massive RELEASE ?[/quote]

    Honestly, I don’t think much of the ‘magnetic charge release’ stuff can be explained scientifically. There
    is a pretty good page on lostpedia, it goes through a lot of the stuff that has been mentioned in different episodes and possible theories, but all in all the entire scenario was pretty farfetched (although great tv).

    In basic terms, lost writers took an idea that could somewhat work in very small terms (the buildup of electrical charges, and consistent release…) and increased the proportions to make for a better and more interesting show. While doing so, they ignored the fact that some of these things can’t really work on a large scale without throwing a lot more fundamentals out of whack, or the storyline being somewhat consistent.

    For example… it is awfully hard to understand how the magnetic field could be strong enough to pull an AIRLANE out of the sky, and for the entire dharma station to “implode”… while allowing our four losties (who were in the hatch at the time) to survive.

    I guess this sort of contradicts what I was saying earlier about believing that the writers base everything in science, when this seems to be a topic that cannot be readily explained by scientific theories… but then again this is a topic that is simple to ‘understand’ but more difficult to dispute, so maybe this is what the writers are going for…

    I still think the relativity thing is way too ‘basic’ of a principle (in physics) for the writers to so blatantly misrepresent for it to be our answer, but who knows.

    (check out the plausible mechanisms section at the bottom)
    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Magnet%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks Laura,

    It’s just my basic theory that the electro-magnetic “force” contained within the Swan had experienced a “leak” as was revealed by Desmonds ‘hatchmate’ (still can’t remember his name) and THAT’S why they had to keep pushing the button every 108 minutes.

    The status of the electro-magnetic “force” had 3 possible stages:
    1. controlled – by pushing the button every 108 minutes they were releasing a controlled amount
    2. System Failure – AFTER the warning siren when they did push the button within the 4 minute ‘emergency’ phase. This phase was responsible for all the earthquake type releases and brought about all the wrecks (the Nigerian Cessna, Des’s sailboat and O-815 at least).
    Remember Des found the date/time stamp on the logs in the Swan and Jules Book Club meeting experienced the earthquake type tremors right before O-815 came down.
    3. Fail Safe – when Des turned the key and blew the hatch the entire “force” was RELEASED.

    I agree that none of those in the Swan should have survived (Des, Ecko, Charlie) but I guess that’s just TV.

    And now, that “force” is responsible for the time shift discrepancy by “bending” clocks, distorting light etc.

    The rate of time elapsed “on Island” is the SAME as “off Island”.

    Countdown: 2 Hrs 38 Mins to SHOW TIME !

  600. Circus Mom says:

    Ok, on the aging/time dirrerence thing. Perhaps we are reading something into this that isn’t there. Lets look at our 3 examples that are fact and not speculation.

    The Baby: You cant use a baby under 3 months old in filming so Aaron looks older.

    Walt: The actor playing Walt has aged since the show began. We, the audience, would probably not accept a different actor in the role so we are stuck with “taller ghost Walt.”

    Richard Alpert: Lets suppose for a minute that the producers didn’t mean for us to think that he dosn’t age. When we first meet him he has long hair, like a young adult might. Later he has a more “professional” shorter hair look. Perhaps that was a way to use the same actor but show aging and we are just looking too hard here.

    That would leave the 70 year old uterus’s being the only thing that ages in a unusual way. Womens cycles, like tides, are affected by the moons gravitational field. Perhaps they are accelerated by the magnitic field that the hatch was there to controll. If this is true, Sun and Kate still had young uteruses when they arrived and may be able to have healthy babies.

  601. cel says:

    Did you noticed the image of the leather collar? it’s like an octopus…or like a snake with lots of heads…that has to mean something,….

  602. Rita says:

    Cel, it was the hydra, the emblem on the hydra station (Dharma).

  603. cel says:

    Aww, maybe has something to do with time traveling? haha, j/k…

    all this theories and ideas are making me crazy :)

    very soon for new episode!!!

  604. Laura says:

    dukewm – i am willing to ‘buy’ the story as it has been presented to us, i was just trying to point out that it in fact did not have any solid scientific basis, and perhaps we should consider this while analyzing the whole time-space continuum theory. lost loves to back things in science, but they definitely dont always do this.

  605. skweez says:

    One last thought before the next ep. I believe Daniel tells Lapidus to make sure he stays on the bearing, no matter what, due to the expirement. I think he believes there will be some “interference” but if he stays on the bearing he will eventually get there.

  606. lola says:

    anyone notice at the end of the episode that one of the dogs in the kennels looked just like walt’s dog vincent?

  607. JamieGirl says:

    Ghostwriter – How do you know “Ben killed the ghostbuster’s father, Marvin Candle, when he gassed the Dharma people during the purge. That’s why he wants to find Ben”… Was this revealed to viewers on the show or on another blog? Thanks very much, Jamie

  608. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="185593"]Ghostwriter – How do you know “Ben killed the ghostbuster’s father, Marvin Candle, when he gassed the Dharma people during the purge. That’s why he wants to find Ben”… Was this revealed to viewers on the show or on another blog? Thanks very much, Jamie[/quote]
    That is not a fact – just a theory of Ghostwriter’s.

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