The Constant

Desmond - The Constant

Tonight’s Desmond-centric episode will mostly focus on Sayid and Desmond’s trip with Frank Lapidus back to the freighter – and accordingly we will see the introduction of a number of new characters. Hopefully we get much more insight into how cohesive a group the freighties are (or not) and additional information on who might be Ben’s man on the boat. I would expect to see a strange sequence related to Desmond’s flash – and we’ll probably have a difficult time determining if we are seeing past or future – should be a great episode.

Spoiler Warning

ABC’s Official Show Description

Sayid and Desmond run into turbulence on their way to the freighter, causing Desmond to suffer unusual side effects.

Episode Preview

As always here are a few sneak peeks of The Constant:
Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3

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745 Responses to The Constant

  1. ainee says:

    what if ben doesn’t really have any man on the boat.. what if he can just read minds.. just what if..
    and is it me? coz i really miss the black smoke monster.. will they show the black smoke monster this season? so i think i hardly saw it last season…

  2. ainee says:

    i love the sneak peeks!! thank you..
    i’m so excited to see this episode.. i’m so curious about the side effects.. hmm… it’s just odd when he said we’re @ 40 ft.. does he mean below sea level?

  3. Johnny_Lost says:

    My Prediction for tonight

    By the very end of the Episode the shocker will be Michael appearing as the Spy.

    A Desmond Flash Forward

    Widmore Connection revealed.

  4. Rita says:

    I just watched the previews and WOW!! (couldn’t help myself) Can’t wait for tonights episode!! 3 1/2 hours to go!

  5. Hammer says:

    I think we are finding out why Faraday didn’t know why the plane footage in his FF made him act weird with his “care taker”…eh?

  6. Hammer says:

    I feel somewhat vindicated of my theory from last season that Des is VERY important to this story.

  7. Rick says:

    I feel like LOST just became the movie Primer. Awesome episode.

  8. Hammer says:

    So what’s up with Widmore buying that 1st mates journal? Needs to know something don’t he?

  9. Toeknee says:

    Well, that was pretty friggin’ awesome! I just hope this doesn’t mean Desmond will be dying soon (but I fear that it does).

    I hope we’ll get to find out what the contents are in that journal from the Black Rock. And I wonder if Mr. Widmore knew about the island before getting the journal.

    I can’t wait to see where this all goes! Is it next Thursday yet!?

  10. Josh says:

    My TV has poor reception and I couldn’t read the Faraday’s note to himself in the last scene. What did it say?

  11. Hammer says:

    If anyone can find the bearing that Ben gave Michael, we can find out if he’s on the boat.

  12. Tasha says:

    So….my mind is spinning right now. Thought I would get a comment in before the crowd gets here. I think I could have a brain aneurysm from watching this show.

    Right now all I can say is Ben has a spy on the boat who also seems to be a friend of the Losties….could it be Micheal or Walt?

    Also, I have to say I had tears in my eyes when Des called penny. That was so sweet!

  13. Rita says:

    [quote comment="188973"]Well, that was pretty friggin’ awesome! I just hope this doesn’t mean Desmond will be dying soon (but I fear that it does).

    I hope we’ll get to find out what the contents are in that journal from the Black Rock. And I wonder if Mr. Widmore knew about the island before getting the journal.

    I can’t wait to see where this all goes! Is it next Thursday yet!?[/quote]
    No I don’t think Des will die soon! Finding the “constant” saved him and he will be alright now. How did the Black Rock journal come to light I wonder?

  14. RGS says:

    [quote comment="188951"]I think we are finding out why Faraday didn’t know why the plane footage in his FF made him act weird with his “care taker”…eh?[/quote]

    That was quite an episode, and a mind blower. It’s going to take me some time to put my thoughts together.

  15. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="188975"]My TV has poor reception and I couldn’t read the Faraday’s note to himself in the last scene. What did it say?[/quote]
    Desmond will be my constant.

  16. omar says:

    man can u beleive that….the island can transport people into the past now, this show is just making things up now…i think the writers got there 6 year old kids writing for them now….that was a waste of a episode…desmond gonna die anywayzzz… wat up lost chicka…

  17. JakeMatrix says:

    >

    The note said something like… “If anything goes wrong, Desmond will be MY anchor”

  18. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="188975"]My TV has poor reception and I couldn’t read the Faraday’s note to himself in the last scene. What did it say?[/quote]

    It said, and I paraphrase,

    If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume is MY constant.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  19. Johhny_Lost says:

    WOW!!! TIme Travel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW
    WOW
    WOW
    Maybe the only way losties can get back to Island is through the MIND TIME TRAVEL

    HIghly unlikeyl BUt Possible.

    MIchael is the man on the boat Im sure of it.

    WOW

  20. JMatrix says:

    >

    The note said something like… “If anything goes wrong, Desmond will be MY constant”

  21. The Journeyman says:

    All I can say is this was what we (all of us who believed time travel was central to the island) have been waiting for. Hate to say I told you so… but… We told you so… Not gloating just Happy!

    An incredible Epi.

  22. TheErikfromTallahassee says:

    Clearly the best episode in years. I was floored and I’m a guy and I even had tears when Dez made contact with Penny. Beautiful. What an episode!

  23. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="188976"]If anyone can find the bearing that Ben gave Michael, we can find out if he’s on the boat.[/quote]
    I was just thinking about this. Michael was given 325, Frank was given 305. Who knows where Michael might be? (or when, to quote Hurley)

  24. Trixanna says:

    I agree with Rita, Desmond will be okay because he has his “constant”. No way would they kill him off now, he’s WAY too important in the whole time travel scheme. Loved the episode, but as I predicted, more questions than ever!!!

    What room is the LAA meeting in? I am lost!

  25. RGS says:

    [quote comment="188979"][quote comment="188973"]Well, that was pretty friggin’ awesome! I just hope this doesn’t mean Desmond will be dying soon (but I fear that it does).

    I hope we’ll get to find out what the contents are in that journal from the Black Rock. And I wonder if Mr. Widmore knew about the island before getting the journal.

    I can’t wait to see where this all goes! Is it next Thursday yet!?[/quote]
    No I don’t think Des will die soon! Finding the “constant” saved him and he will be alright now. How did the Black Rock journal come to light I wonder?[/quote]

    Even though I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, I hope folks can relax a little bit with over-analyzing it, because there are definitely some plot holes. Stuff happened quite fast with Penny and Des. She changed her number the same day she asked him to stop calling. She moved to a different address, the address she moved to happened to be walking distance from the Auction, which happened to be close to Daniel Farraday’s office. Mr. Widmore happened to be at the auction, and despite his apparent dislike for Dez, gives his daughter’s address to him.

    But, I can buy the keeping the number bit, just for entertainment purposes.

  26. Hammer says:

    Trying to wrap my head around time travel by conscience only. Walt seems to be able to do it. That explains why he is “taller” when he talks to Locke.

    Is this what Charlie meant when he said “I’m dead, but I’m also here.”?

  27. Tasha says:

    The people on the boat didn’t seem to know where they were at either. The guy said they knew they were in the Pacific and about the last port being Fiji. Then the guy that dies said that they just wanted to “see” the island. I wonder if its like middle earth or something. I mean Time travel is a little far fetched so why can’t it be Middle Earth?

  28. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="188994"]Clearly the best episode in years. I was floored and I’m a guy and I even had tears when Dez made contact with Penny. Beautiful. What an episode![/quote]
    LOL! I usually hate the mushy stuff to, but that was a great scene between Des & Pen

  29. prtp3warrior says:

    That episode was great. Go Desmond. I always knew there was more to Desmod than meets the eye.
    This is confirmation that the writers are not just making it up as they go.

  30. lust4lost says:

    time travel — that explains the polar bear and the french lady’s recording for 16 years — and walt appearing to john locke and telling him he has ‘work to do’

  31. Shane says:

    New to blog: AMAZING revelation!!!! Years ago my wife and I saw this old movie “Somewhere in Time” In it, a guy travels through time through hypnosis. Essentially he travels to 1912 by convincing himself it is 1912. The professer he consults before his little journey says his clothes/etc. everything must be 1912 or earlier. He falls in love with a woman from the past but accidentally is brought back by a modern “penny” is in his pocket. This reference to modern times ruins his link. A “penny” brought him back! No way it is a coincidence. They love to pay omage to sci fi flicks…but this also proves they planned this plot sequence from the start! The movie was from around 1980 and had C. Reeves and J. Seymour I think. Anyone else remember this?

  32. Andrew says:

    I think all the radiation from those experiments cuased Daniel to lose his short term memory, remember how he didnt have protection on his head with the mouse experiment.

  33. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="188995"][quote comment="188976"]If anyone can find the bearing that Ben gave Michael, we can find out if he’s on the boat.[/quote]
    I was just thinking about this. Michael was given 325, Frank was given 305. Who knows where Michael mig ht be? (or when, to quote Hurley)[/quote]Michael might be on the boat, it seems if you are on 305 you get the side effect…eventually. The guy who died in Dez’s arms had a buddy who died much quicker.

  34. prtp3warrior says:

    By the way that was the best representation of time travel that I have ever seen. Very clever. None of this get in the mabic machine stuff. All in the concious just as einstien would have liked it.

  35. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189001"]The people on the boat didn’t seem to know where they were at either. The guy said they knew they were in the Pacific and about the last port being Fiji. Then the guy that dies said that they just wanted to “see” the island.

    I wonder if its like middle earth or something. I mean Time travel is a little far fetched so why can’t it be Middle Earth?[/quote]
    You’re right, they don’t know where they are. Last season said something like “Island? We were given coordinates in the middle of the bloody ocean” I’d imagine some crew members know more than others.

  36. The Journeyman says:

    I like the “Constant” theme.

    Shane “Some where in time” was a great example…and very relevant to this epi..

  37. Trixanna says:

    Somewhere In Time was filmed at Mackinac Island in Michigan. Remember it well! (As do most Michiganders I am sure) Penny in his pocket, I don’t remember that part but WOW!!!

    I believe the writers know exactly what they are doing and it is all planned out. They bring us amazing episodes week after week!

  38. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189005"]New to blog: AMAZING revelation!!!! Years ago my wife and I saw this old movie “Somewhere in Time” In it, a guy travels through time through hypnosis. Essentially he travels to 1912 by convincing himself it is 1912. The professer he consults before his little journey says his clothes/etc. everything must be 1912 or earlier. He falls in love with a woman from the past but accidentally is brought back by a modern “penny” is in his pocket. This reference to modern times ruins his link. A “penny” brought him back! No way it is a coincidence. They love to pay omage to sci fi flicks…but this also proves they planned this plot sequence from the start! The movie was from around 1980 and had C. Reeves and J. Seymour I think. Anyone else remember this?[/quote]
    Welcome Shane…and thanks for the tidbit.

  39. Evan says:

    Desmond will be fine, he’s not gonna die, he has reconnected with his constant…Minkowski on the other hand has not found his constant…and Daniel knows this and that’s why he wrote it down back in 1996 in his notepad, Daniel’s not so much of a headcase anymore, just is smarter than all of the others and knows much more than anyone…can’t wait to see his episode

  40. island_girl89 says:

    WHAT A SHOW, it is getting really interesting..
    can’t wait until thursday!!!!!!
    i was wondering who is the captain on the ship?????

  41. Hammer says:

    Off topic but not really…I see another Cloverfield connection. The guys said he was just on a ferris wheel. I’ll take this to the Cloverfield Update thread….sorry.

  42. lust4lost says:

    shane — yes, saw the movie with chris reeve and jayne seymour … and you’re right— this episode was similar to that

    i believe the island is in the middle of this time portal … that’s why it’s so important to ben …that’s why ben is protecting it…just don’t know why ben didn’t go to the future and cure himself of the tumor

  43. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189007"]
    Michael might be on the boat, it seems if you are on 305 you get the side effect…eventually. The guy who died in Dez’s arms had a buddy who died much quicker.[/quote]
    It wouldn’t surprise me if Michael is on the boat. I thought the reason Des had his “experiences” was because the copter veered slightly off course during the storm. Remember how emphatic (to use the description from the pop-up in tonight’s “Eggtown”) Daniel was in telling Frank to absolutely stay on course?

    I do wonder what determines how a person reacts to it? Sayid and Frank were unaffected, but Desmond was affected, because of the electromagnetism. But why was Brandon affected more severely than Minkowski?

  44. ctkmike says:

    Maybe I’m crazy, but when we see Sayid on the freighter alone (16 minutes in) the camera scans toward the top of the ship…and it looks like an African American man with a goatee looking through binoculars….could this be Michael?

  45. Lisa says:

    SO……would the whole “Dharma Initiative” be a time travel experiment…and Desmond and Daniel started the chain of events with Mr. Widmore being the financier of this experiment and he recieves his info from the book he just bought at auction?

  46. lost chicka says:

    ok, awesome episode. a bit confusing but i liked it. i couldn’t get on here for 20 minutes so i had plenty of time to think about the show.
    > so daniel faraday is going thorugh the same thing as des. this makes SOOO much sense.
    > desmond is daniel’s constant!?!?! since des is his constant, when is he flipping back and forth in time?
    > minkowski got the same thing as desmond! and he died. i hope des doesn’t. is that why frank didn’t want daniel to talk to him? it explains why minkowski couldn’t come to the phone tho.
    > omg, i was so happy when des found penny at the end!!!! i’ve been waiting forever for that moment!!!!!!!
    > so with the time change thinga mabober it’s dusk when they start to go through the cloud and day when they get through it. when des goes back and forth between time it christmas eve ’04 and ’96.
    > would oxford really hire faraday??? i don’t see him getting through the front desk with hair like that.
    > omar wat up with you?????
    > so does penny remember desmond saying he’ll call her on dec 24 ’04? or is it like she can’t remember him saying that?
    > i loved this ep! but if anything like the lake house movie starts happening i’m not gonna be able to watch the show

  47. Toeknee says:

    A few weeks ago someone brought up the concept of “vile vortices”, and said that is may be related to the mysteries of Lost. I don’t fully understand it, but I remember that one vile vortex is near Madagascar, which I think is where they said the journal was found.

    You can read about vile vortices here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vile_Vortices

  48. omar says:

    How come Sahid can fix anything??? That commincations tower on the boat was pretty messed up, and how does penelope have the same phone number for 8 years, and if she did then how she gonna give him the real number after that crazy story….This show is not making any sense now or maybe it was just this episode… if i was in charge i would blow up the whole island and be done for it…Obama for president 08….

  49. poopypants says:

    Des will be one of the “O6″,either that or he will be one of the “DO8″(2 Dead “O6″survivors from Jacks BS court story).I assume this because he is with Syaid now so… what happens next,its up to you but I say the big dude fom Vegas is not the ships libraian so expect fireworks next episode.Also,Ben’s “Man on the Boat”?… I think its the chopper pilot,what say you?

  50. Rikki says:

    ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT WAS THE GREATEST EPISODE OF LOST SINCE THE ONE WHERE ANNA LUCIA AND LIBBY DIED. Desmond is not going to die. Sawyer is going to die, i’m 100% sure. Also, Jack wont go to see aaron because he is probably responsible for the death of Claire. Farraday or Charlotte die next episode. i hope its charlotte because farraday is cool

  51. Tasha says:

    CTKMIKE- I went back and looked. The dude seems bigger than Micheal but who knows. My picture isn’t that clear.

  52. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189029"]SO……would the whole “Dharma Initiative” be a time travel experiment…and Desmond and Daniel started the chain of events with Mr. Widmore being the financier of this experiment and he recieves his info from the book he just bought at auction?[/quote]
    Well it seem the Orchid video was hinting that DHARMA had Daniel’s device, but it duplicated the rabbit instead of just the rabbit’s conscience.

  53. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189033"]How come Sahid can fix anything??? That commincations tower on the boat was pretty messed up, and how does penelope have the same phone number for 8 years, and if she did then how she gonna give him the real number after that crazy story….This show is not making any sense now or maybe it was just this episode… if i was in charge i would blow up the whole island and be done for it…Obama for president 08….[/quote]
    Yeah, the communications center stuff was a bit far-fetched. Desmond said, “Can you fix it”, and Sayid said, “I’ll need a minute”. The thing was in a million pieces, torn wires everywhere……

    Same number for 8 years….I’ve had the same one for 11 years, my parents have had the same one for 40 years….

  54. The Journeyman says:

    [quote comment="189028"]Maybe I’m crazy, but when we see Sayid on the freighter alone (16 minutes in) the camera scans toward the top of the ship…and it looks like an African American man with a goatee looking through binoculars….could this be Michael?[/quote]

    I have a 61″ DLP and HD with DVR… I just went back and it sure looks like Michael with a cap and a goatee. Good Eye.

  55. omar says:

    Ya tokenee i mentioned the whole vile vortices thing couple weeks back….if you wanna read up on that theory, just hit the tailsection blog..

  56. dukewm says:

    Bizarro! I don’t know what to think yet.

    I need to clear my head.

  57. omar says:

    there is supposedly 12 vile vortices around the world (which is a true theory), example would be the bermuda triangle and such where one can jump all reality and perception of real time and place…there is one in the south pacific where the plane went down and people believe that is what happened to amelia earheart..

  58. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="189032"]A few weeks ago someone brought up the concept of “vile vortices”, and said that is may be related to the mysteries of Lost. I don’t fully understand it, but I remember that one vile vortex is near Madagascar, which I think is where they said the journal was found.

    You can read about vile vortices here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vile_Vortices%5B/quote%5D

    Vile Vortices = Hollow Earth

    That’s what I’m talking about!

  59. The Journeyman says:

    [quote comment="189035"]ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT WAS THE GREATEST EPISODE OF LOST SINCE THE ONE WHERE ANNA LUCIA AND LIBBY DIED. Desmond is not going to die. Sawyer is going to die, i’m 100% sure. Also, Jack wont go to see aaron because he is probably responsible for the death of Claire. Farraday or Charlotte die next episode. i hope its charlotte because farraday is cool[/quote]

    Charlotte is not going to die yet…Did you read her interview two weeks back?

  60. Frank says:

    Minkowski as Ben’s man on the boat? Ben talking to him in the past?

  61. Lost Addict* says:

    very confusing. So, with Des’s time travel what
    ‘s the theory on how this factor’s into him being able to see flashes of the future???

  62. meathead says:

    Stinkin’ amazing! Wow! How can they top this?

    Did anyone freak out when Des first sees that communication officer strapped in the bed? The background music made it seem he was someone we were supposed to know and then they go to commercial.

  63. Andrew says:

    [quote comment="189056"]Minkowski as Ben’s man on the boat? Ben talking to him in the past?[/quote]

    no becuase then who opend the door to let them out of the clinic

  64. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189021"][quote comment="189007"]
    Michael might be on the boat, it seems if you are on 305 you get the side effect…eventually. The guy who died in Dez’s arms had a buddy who died much quicker.[/quote]
    It wouldn’t surprise me if Michael is on the boat. I thought the reason Des had his “experiences” was because the copter veered slightly off course during the storm. Remember how emphatic (to use the description from the pop-up in tonight’s “Eggtown”) Daniel was in telling Frank to absolutely stay on course?

    I do wonder what determines how a person reacts to it? Sayid and Frank were unaffected, but Desmond was affected, because of the electromagnetism. But why was Brandon affected more severely than Minkowski?[/quote]

    I think Brandon and Minkowski got it because they probably did not go exactly on the heading. I think the Freightor knew how to get close to it, but they don’t know the exact heading to go in on, without the side effects (and have probably tried b4 w/o success). I don’t think Daniel’s coordinates (305?) are as correct as the 325, which probably does not produce any side effects, (but he believes it is, or has slightly miscalculated but can accept the difference) or they are minimal. If they knew the exact way to get in, it would seem they would just go right in, but they don’t so they sent the 4 in first to see if there would be any effects.

    I agree with whoever originally posted in thinking that Widmore is the person after Ben.

    Time travel kinda opens the door up to a lot of possiblities, I hope they give a nice explanation soon to tighten up the storyline.

  65. Shane says:

    If the guy piloting the boat is Micheal that would certainly explain who is Ben’s “man” on the boat. I will have to check the dvr tomorrow.

  66. LostinSev says:

    Penny said she has been looking for Des for three years. Is that how long it has been since Des turned that key and got radiated??

  67. Frank says:

    [quote comment="189059"][quote comment="189056"]Minkowski as Ben’s man on the boat? Ben talking to him in the past?[/quote]

    no becuase then who opend the door to let them out of the clinic[/quote]

    I thought it was Frank… Someone who does not appear to be Ben’s man…

  68. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189057"]very confusing. So, with Des’s time travel what
    ‘s the theory on how this factor’s into him being able to see flashes of the future???[/quote]
    Just a guess, but now that Dez has found his constant, he may be able to better understand how to use his visions. He’s still vital to the story IMO.

  69. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189060"]I think the Freightor knew how to get close to it, but they don’t know the exact heading to go in on, without the side effects (and have probably tried b4 w/o success). I don’t think Daniel’s coordinates (305?) are as correct as the 325, which probably does not produce any side effects, (but he believes it is, or has slightly miscalculated but can accept the difference) or they are minimal.[/quote]

    Okay, I don’t know anything about headings, but if Michael’s little boat left from a totally different place on the island from the helicopter, would that account for the difference in the heading that each was given?

    : ) P

  70. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189063"]Penny said she has been looking for Des for three years. Is that how long it has been since Des turned that key and got radiated??[/quote]

    No, it’s still 2004 on island time. Des got the heavy electromagnetism exposure within a month or 2 of the plane crash.

  71. any four word phase says:

    [quote comment="189063"]Penny said she has been looking for Des for three years. Is that how long it has been since Des turned that key and got radiated??[/quote]

    No, it is when his boat went missing

    also, if anyone is interested in a video about the dif. dimensions/ time travel, check this out.

    http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php

  72. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189066"][quote comment="189060"]I think the Freightor knew how to get close to it, but they don’t know the exact heading to go in on, without the side effects (and have probably tried b4 w/o success). I don’t think Daniel’s coordinates (305?) are as correct as the 325, which probably does not produce any side effects, (but he believes it is, or has slightly miscalculated but can accept the difference) or they are minimal.[/quote]

    Okay, I don’t know anything about headings, but if Michael’s little boat left from a totally different place on the island from the helicopter, would that account for the difference in the heading that each was given?

    : ) P[/quote]

    I don’t know much about heading either, but I play like I do on this site…lol. I would imagine that since the helicopter can fly, it doesn’t matter where it takes off from. Don’t quote me.

  73. Mark says:

    Can someone help me out? My dvr crashed and I did not get the last two minutes. Desmond was calling Penny and the phone was ringing when I it went dead. I can now tell that Penny picked up. What did she say? Would love a blow by blow of those last two minutes. Thanks.

  74. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189063"]Penny said she has been looking for Des for three years. Is that how long it has been since Des turned that key and got radiated??[/quote]
    No, Dez has been on the island for that long.

  75. Andrew says:

    What if Micheals on the boat but he’s not Bens man the boat. Whatif micheal came back to help the lost people and Frank or somone else is the real “man on the boat” cause why would micheal help Ben. Wouldnt he just want to get of the island with his son and live a normal life. or try to help his friends back on the island.

  76. CGHouston says:

    The best episode of Lost yet. I beleieve that it also foreshadows the Oceanic 6 experience when they leave the island.

  77. lostlaur* says:

    Whoa Micheal on the boat? I would LOVE to see a screencap of that bad boy.

    I’ve had the same CELL phone number for 8 years- it’s not too much of a stretch to keep the same house number.
    And we don’t know how much time was going by in between Desmond going to the auction hall & Penny’s so it seemed pretty realistic to me. What was he talking about with the whole exponential thing? Smarty posters- care to help a non science girl out?

    Did anybody else catch the whole Hanso mention as the previous Black Rock Journal owner? Reinforces the whole Hanso vs. Widmore theory.

    Why would they ignore Penny’s calls if it was her father’s boat? It’s either A. not his boat or B. an order he gave them to keep Penny from Des (though honestly how can a father hate his daughter’s boyfriend THAT much? I know he didn’t like desmond but that seems a little out of control to me?)

    Also- big thank you to the Lost writers, FINALLY an episode where I feel like things get answered. Now you just need to spill about the 5000 other mysteries involving the island : )

    I refuse to acknowledge the idea that Sawyer dies because he is my biggest person-who-doesn’t-really-exist crush.

    LASTLY (well for now- my head is still in a whirlwind…) where is Naomi? I was really disappointed we didn’t see her. & am I the only one who thought the doctor looked familiar?

  78. lost chicka says:

    prtp3warrior (35): agreed. i loved that. i liked how you (or at least me) kinda felt like desmond where you’re just like “what? how’d i get here? what’s going on?” it was a great idea (tho that is what he’s been doing before). and with minkowski it was REALLY scary and totally unexpected. and daniel? no way i woulda guessed that one (till daniel started talking to des on the phone, from there i knew he’s like des). and elouise was a great touch too.

    > oh, i loved it when minkoswki “came back” and is like i was just on a ferris wheel. it’s like the perfect thing to go to.

    > des is affected by the electromagnets (and possibly radiation from the implosion?). daniel by the radiation of his experiments. so what was minkowski and brandon affected by???

    omar (48): yes, sayid is superman of the communication devices. the republican guard trains very well apparently. who else could fix that messed up of a thing and make it work? and penny having the same number for 8 years, makes sense but for whatever reason i don’t see her keeping a number that long (i know she’s not kate but it still doesn’t seem to fit her really) unless for some reason she took des seriously when he said the 12/24/04 and rememberd it somehow.

    > i’m gonna have to rewatch this to make any sense of anything in this episode!

    frank (60): yep, on a ferris wheel. probably eating cotton candy. :P

    > des has been on the island for 3 years.

    > i’m gonna take a wild guess and say ben knows how to go to and from the island w/o side effects, and the freighter tots don’t as they don’t live on the island.

  79. LostinSev says:

    Okay? It is 2004 on the island but is it 2007 real time (off island). Did Penny search for Des before is promised Dec. 24, 2004 call? Is the real call 12/24/07 (3 years later than he said)??

  80. RAY says:

    As far as the touching scene at the end with Des and Penny goes, I have to share something with you all.

    In the twelve years I have known my husband, I have seen him cry five times. 1) When we broke up temporarily while dating, 2) When his favorite aunt died, 3) when he was really sorry for something he had done, 4) when our newborn daughter required OPEN-HEART surgery and lastly, 5) when two fictional characters re-unite on a sci-fi show. Huh?

    I looked over at him in utter disbelief. Pretty sweet.

  81. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189077"]What if Micheals on the boat but he’s not Bens man the boat. Whatif micheal came back to help the lost people and Frank or somone else is the real “man on the boat” cause why would micheal help Ben. Wouldnt he just want to get of the island with his son and live a normal life. or try to help his friends back on the island.[/quote]
    For likely the same reason Sayid is a hitman for Ben…he’s got something on him.

  82. lostlaur* says:

    AND (haha that totally didn’t last long) WHAT do these people keep injecting people with? I think whatever he gave Minkowski is related to what Juliet got on the submarine and Sayid received from Ben. Some sort of vaccine that counter-acts the effects of the island.

    And I think Desmond being the only one affected by the island mind-blower thing had something to do with him being in the Hatch and/or the explosion. Faraday asked him if he had been exposed to radiation or electro magnetic something or other & he was definitely involved in something of the sort with the whole button pushing and eventual blowing up of the Hatch.

  83. SOS_LOST says:

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHO IS MICHEAL AGAIN???

    I AM A LITTLE CONFUSED!!!!

  84. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189060"]
    I don’t think Daniel’s coordinates (305?) are as correct as the 325, which probably does not produce any side effects, (but he believes it is, or has slightly miscalculated but can accept the difference) or they are minimal. [/quote]
    thee heading is 325. frank flew 305, as scribed by daniel on the note. at the very end when Des was freaking out, frank took a descending right turn (correcting back to 325?) and des got better.

    more numbers = des to past daniel freq = 2.342 on 11 hertz. 11 doesnt register but 2.342 is our famous 23 & 42. how about penny’s future london phone number? no bells rung there.

    minkowski (NOT DEAD) is faking the time travel bit and pushing des’s buttons. he knows and copies daniel’s time “fits’ to get des to reveal what des knows. Des & Daniel are like the lab rat that brain-farted – expendable.

    Where does Abbadon fit with any of the new folks?

    Best episode in years. Everyone that follows LOST will have to reflect on this episode – it is the portal from the first half of the series to the second half.

    Only one thing I did not like – the skunky POS freighter – I was expecting a modern, state-of-the-art, hi-tech, almost carrier like freighter. What we got was a junky, trash-hauling relic of a freighter with Tunisian registry.

    (DOH – Tunisian connection there?)

  85. RAY says:

    Okay? It is 2004 on the island but is it 2007 real time (off island). Did Penny search for Des before is promised Dec. 24, 2004 call? Is the real call 12/24/07 (3 years later than he said)??

    I think it’s 2004 on the show and not 2007. They started in 2004 and although we have been watching for 3 years, they have only been on the island 90 days.

  86. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189082"]Okay? It is 2004 on the island but is it 2007 real time (off island). Did Penny search for Des before is promised Dec. 24, 2004 call? Is the real call 12/24/07 (3 years later than he said)??[/quote]

    LostinSev, aye brotha we’ve got to get you a constant! Think of something that you care deeply about. The show is taking place in 2004. It’s 2004 on the island, AND on the freightor. To our knowledge, no one has traveled into the future yet.

  87. lostlaur* says:

    [quote comment="189083"]
    In the twelve years I have known my husband, I have seen him cry five times.[/quote]

    Hilarious. My uncle has been making fun of me because of how I lock down the house when Lost is on (no talking, no lights, no walking in my peripheral vision and seriously NO TALKING) but he hasn’t ever seen the show & always misses it because he works a night job. So tonight even though he was running late, he caught the very beginning and COULD NOT stop watching the TV to leave haha! I’m going to have to leave the ABC episode site up on the computer tonight to help him on his way to LOST addiction…

  88. omar says:

    LOL ray on number 5

  89. Trixanna says:

    Michael is Walt’s father. Walt is the kid that the “Others” kidnapped from the boat.

  90. lust4lost says:

    did you catch widmore telling des after he gave des penny’s address “here .. go see her so she can tell you herself” what? that he’s behind the time travel? that she’s married? (she was wearing a gold band on her right hand … but many europeans wear wedding bands on the right hand) did you see all the gifts in the background?
    michael is not on the boat … the man in the tower was walt — in future-grown up- now he’s charge

  91. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189081"]prtp3warrior (35): agreed. .[/quote]

    Lost chicka, maybe Minkowski and Brandon? got their exposure from being in the communications room all the time.

  92. dukewm says:

    The actual “quote” in Danials’ notebook was:
    “If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant”. Lots of close paraphrases.

    The 325 bearing vs. the 305 bearing: It is true that the dock from which Ben sent Michael and the Huey takeoff site could be far enough apart to require that much difference in “headings” to arrive at the SAME destination. Of course the freighter may have moved since Michael shoved off also.

    The time travel theory needs some serious explanation. Lots of us have believed the Island existed in some time-warp or was only reached by traveling thru some portal. More recently, I’ve discounted those theories in my own mind due to the live radio communications and was leaning more towards the electro-magnetic effects just “bending” time slightly.

    Can anyone explain a reasonable theory now ?

  93. DocH says:

    I just did the math
    the crash (Day one) was 22 Sep 2004
    the reveal tonight was 24 Dec 2004
    or Day 94. that lines up with the pop-up enhanced repeats. Jacks 100 days or so without baseball means he didn’t see a game the week before he left Sydney.

  94. omar says:

    man yall need to get off this whole micheal on the boat thing….micheal got fired from the show like 2 seasons ago, he aint on no boat or is he coming back for his dog…poor walt just got the boot with him…

  95. lostlaur* says:

    [quote comment="189093"][quote comment="189060"]
    Only one thing I did not like – the skunky POS freighter – I was expecting a modern, state-of-the-art, hi-tech, almost carrier like freighter. What we got was a junky, trash-hauling relic of a freighter with Tunisian registry.

    (DOH – Tunisian connection there?)[/quote]

    That’s really interesting- can you elaborate on the Tunisian registry and what POS means? I didn’t catch the first part & know nothing about freighters.

  96. buckeyejon says:

    ok, newbie here. loved that episode! love time travel stuff…. does it mean anything that the first mates shiplog belonged to someone named “hanso”? isnt that the name of the company that did the dharma iniative? i think penny’s RICH dad sent desmond to the island 6 years ago and had him type those numbers in hoping he would freak out and die from a time traveler brain anuerism. but he never did. does that make any sense to anyone but me????

  97. omar says:

    man yall need to get off this whole micheal on the boat thing….micheal got fired from the show like 2 seasons ago, he aint on no boat or is he coming back for his dog…poor walt just got the boot with him…no lost chicka im superman

  98. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189074"]Can someone help me out? My dvr crashed and I did not get the last two minutes. Desmond was calling Penny and the phone was ringing when I it went dead. I can now tell that Penny picked up. What did she say? Would love a blow by blow of those last two minutes. Thanks.[/quote]
    I can’t quite do a blow-by-blow, but she answered, he said “You remembered” she said “I’ve been searching for you for 3 years. I know about the island” there was some static they said they loved each other ….. I think that was the gist of it.

  99. skweez says:

    Can someone please explain what just went on. I am totally lost. Maybe i’m just dense, but i don’t get the whole “conscience time travel” thing. Am I to understand that the only way to go to and from the island is by time travel? If so, how does that make sense?

  100. dukewm says:

    Oh yeah another thing:
    Did anyone else expect the auctioneer to announce a familiar name (or two) from the Black Rock ? Maybe Richard Alpert ?

    Perhaps the freighter is ALSO “under the influence” or effected by a time-warp ?

  101. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189104"]
    man yall need to get off this whole micheal on the boat thing….micheal got fired from the show like 2 seasons ago, he aint on no boat or is he coming back for his dog…poor walt just got the boot with him…
    [/quote]
    YET… this entire season – they have been showing Harold Perrineau’s name in the 10 minute open credit crawl – five episodes!
    not a spoiler – they advertise it – every week.

    COUNTERPOINT?

  102. lust4lost says:

    who is richard alpert?

  103. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189079"]
    where is Naomi? I was really disappointed we didn’t see her.[/quote]
    By Naomi, you mean her body, right? (she died a couple episodes ago) That’s a good point – you’d think some of the ship’s crew would go to get her off the copter.

    [quote comment="189087"] WHAT do these people keep injecting people with? I think whatever he gave Minkowski is related to what Juliet got on the submarine and Sayid received from Ben. Some sort of vaccine that counter-acts the effects of the island.
    [/quote]
    I thought he just gave Minkowski a sedative because he was yelling and trying to get out of the bed. Supposedly Juliet got a sedative too, and I believe that – they wanted to make sure she wasn’t awake to see the way they get to the island.

    [quote comment="189096"]
    My uncle has been making fun of me because of how I lock down the house when Lost is on (no talking, no lights, no walking in my peripheral vision and seriously NO TALKING) [/quote]
    LOL! That’s me too – my wife gets mad at me – she’s starting to dread Thursday nights.

  104. Mark says:

    [quote comment="189110"][quote comment="189074"]Can someone help me out? My dvr crashed and I did not get the last two minutes. Desmond was calling Penny and the phone was ringing when I it went dead. I can now tell that Penny picked up. What did she say? Would love a blow by blow of those last two minutes. Thanks.[/quote]
    I can’t quite do a blow-by-blow, but she answered, he said “You remembered” she said “I’ve been searching for you for 3 years. I know about the island” there was some static they said they loved each other ….. I think that was the gist of it.[/quote]

    Thank you! Holy cow.

  105. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189081"]des is affected by the electromagnets (and possibly radiation from the implosion?). daniel by the radiation of his experiments. so what was minkowski and brandon affected by???[/quote]

    Perhaps one or both had cancer and received radiation treatments? Maybe that is why Ben wanted his tumor removed on island to avoid “mainland” hospital radiation?

    Oh, and Omar, “Michael” is played by Harold Perrineau who was NOT fired (but allowed to film a movie) and in fact has been in the credits (though not yet on the show) since the first episode of this season.

    : ) P

  106. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189093"][quote comment="189060"]
    I don’t think Daniel’s coordinates (305?) are as correct as the 325, which probably does not produce any side effects, (but he believes it is, or has slightly miscalculated but can accept the difference) or they are minimal. [/quote]
    thee heading is 325. frank flew 305, as scribed by daniel on the note. at the very end when Des was freaking out, frank took a descending right turn (correcting back to 325?) and des got better.

    more numbers = des to past daniel freq = 2.342 on 11 hertz. 11 doesnt register but 2.342 is our famous 23 & 42. how about penny’s future london phone number? no bells rung there.

    minkowski (NOT DEAD) is faking the time travel bit and pushing des’s buttons. he knows and copies daniel’s time “fits’ to get des to reveal what des knows. Des & Daniel are like the lab rat that brain-farted – expendable.quote]

    I think you’re giving Minkowski too much credit. I think it was just as he said, that’s why when they would call to talk to him, the woman would say, “um, he’s …unavailable…” because dude had spaced out and gon’ bonkers.

    I also think that after they came back, they felt they needed to destroy the radio room (I’m not sure why they’d know the exposure would get them, if it in fact did cause the disorientation) bcuz the radio room is the work of the devil, work of the devil, work-of-the-devvv-illll.

  107. Lost Addict* says:

    [/quote]
    YET… this entire season – they have been showing Harold Perrineau’s name in the 10 minute open credit crawl – five episodes!
    not a spoiler – they advertise it – every week.

    COUNTERPOINT?[/quote]

    I have been purposely watching this and you are on point-his name is up there every week!

  108. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189114"][quote comment="189104"]
    man yall need to get off this whole micheal on the boat thing….micheal got fired from the show like 2 seasons ago, he aint on no boat or is he coming back for his dog…poor walt just got the boot with him…
    [/quote]
    YET… this entire season – they have been showing Harold Perrineau’s name in the 10 minute open credit crawl – five episodes!
    not a spoiler – they advertise it – every week.

    COUNTERPOINT?[/quote]
    Not to mention he was rehired last year.

  109. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189111"]Can someone please explain what just went on. I am totally lost. Maybe i’m just dense, but i don’t get the whole “conscience time travel” thing. Am I to understand that the only way to go to and from the island is by time travel? If so, how does that make sense?[/quote]
    I don’t fully get it either, but time travel is NOT the only way to get to the island. But apparently if you don’t approach the island from the correct angle, some funky things happen. A person’s body doesn’t physically jump from one period of time to another, but the person’s mind apparently does, jumping to their own body at a different point in time.

  110. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189115"]who is richard alpert?[/quote]
    Ah come on! Let me recommend reading lostpedia.com.

  111. lostlaur* says:

    [quote comment="189112"]Oh yeah another thing:
    Did anyone else expect the auctioneer to announce a familiar name (or two) from the Black Rock ? Maybe Richard Alpert ?

    Perhaps the freighter is ALSO “under the influence” or effected by a time-warp ?[/quote]

    YES. I totally did.

    and Skweez on the island confusion-
    Who knows haha?
    I personally think that MAYBE with the exception of Desmond they are actually physically on the island. So far the only ones we’ve even gotten flash forwards of besides Desmond’s crazy time warping are Jack, Sayid, Hurley & Kate. So if it was only by mind that you could get to the island I don’t really get all the flashbacks for the first 3 seasons. That would be THREE paths of time simultaneously right? Past, Present and Future?

    And Penny acknowledged that Desmond was somewhere far away, Ben had passports which leads me to believe that being on the island is a physical thing, and while traveling back and forth you apparently pass out, get nosebleeds etc. & I think the other Losties would notice other people acting like that. Also, I think there would be some weirdness concerning the people on the island who died- where would their bodies go? In the future & disappear from the past? Fall down dead in their past timeline? I’m sticking with actually physically being on the island.

    Also- Walt may have that whole mind travel thing going on but he also has some other really weird abilities (killing the bird for one) so who knows. I always thought that Walt must have a lot more to do with things than original because why would they make him seem so special & have that comic book with the polar bear & island with the bubble and lightning bolt if he wasn’t providing foreshadowing? Maybe I just really like Walt and want him to come back.

  112. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189106"]ok, newbie here. loved that episode! love time travel stuff…. does it mean anything that the first mates shiplog belonged to someone named “hanso”? isnt that the name of the company that did the dharma iniative? i think penny’s RICH dad sent desmond to the island 6 years ago and had him type those numbers in hoping he would freak out and die from a time traveler brain anuerism. but he never did. does that make any sense to anyone but me????[/quote]
    Welcome! The name Hanso appeared on that blast door map in the Swan Hatch that Locke saw for about 10 seconds back in season 2. And you’re right, the Hanso Foundation sponsored the Dharma Initiative. I think there was some additional information about the Black Rock-Hanso connection in the Lost Experience online game they had a couple years ago.

    You may be right about Mr. Widmore’s motivations in sponsoring the round-the-world race, and hoping Desmond would be gone forever.

  113. lust4lost says:

    to the person that also asked “who’s michael?” lostpedia.com

    thanks,hammer! i’m new to this blog and trying to play catch-up

  114. Hammer says:

    Seems like people are confusing the time travel thing with the island time thing. I don’t think is necessarily one in the same. The conscience time travel was presented as a side effect to the travel between the island and the real world.

  115. omar says:

    didnt know i could stir up so much about micheal…sorrryyyy….but the real deal is that they run everyones name on the opening credits and it is just another lost illusion to keep the audience guessing, so untill he and walt time travel back to the island and charlie comes riding in with a sea turtle attached to him with captain Jack Sparrow on his side,,,i will not bring out the lost theories thats have already failed us…u say micheal name on the credits well so is charlies…???

  116. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”189131You may be right about Mr. Widmore’s motivations in sponsoring the round-the-world race, and hoping Desmond would be gone forever.[/quote]
    I’m going back to my old theory that Widmore actually set Dez up to end up on the island, not because he wanted to get rid of him, but to make sure he was there for later purposes.

  117. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189105"]
    That’s really interesting – can you elaborate on the Tunisian registry and what POS means? I didn’t catch the first part; know nothing about freighters.
    [/quote]
    POS means Piece Of S*&^ (Crap). Most guys with old clunky cars know the reference. As for freighters, African countries like Liberia, Algeria, Tunisia, etc… are notorious for their run-down POS freighters (think the first Indiana Jones movie) that will do almost any drug-smuggling, human trafficking no-no for just a few bucks. I rewound my not so hi-def and saw no flags flying on the freighter. I saw a side mark that was not so intelligable. The Tunisia thing was more of giggle thing based on the Polar Bear Charlotte found, combined with POS shipping.

  118. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189131"]You may be right about Mr. Widmore’s motivations in sponsoring the round-the-world race, and hoping Desmond would be gone forever.[/quote]
    Screwed up the quote…this is what I was referring to.

  119. lost chicka says:

    ray (80): now that’s just a bit sad. you’re newborn daughter requiring open heart surgery just doesn’t really compare to 2 fictional characters re-uniting on a sci-fi show.

    buckeyejo (96): welcome….whoa, penny’s dad must really hate dez to want him to get time traveler brain anuerism (whoa, big word).

    PJSander (105): thanx. that makes sense why ben wouldn’t want to get treatment for his tumor off the island. sooo much sense!!!

    Hammer (114): yes, exactly what was said in the episode.

    > lots of banging people into walls in this episode.
    > so, how does daniel know about 1996, but can’t play a memory game? and can time travel affect the future then or not?
    > richard alpert is the king of guyliner who gave locke the giant folder on sawyer in the brig which gave locke what he needed to know to get sawyer to kill cooper/the original sawyer.

    >>daniel and des rock my sox off!!!!!

  120. bb says:

    if you look at danie’s journal the map that locke saw seems to be on there

  121. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189138"]
    I’m going back to my old theory that Widmore actually set Dez up to end up on the island, not because he wanted to get rid of him, but to make sure he was there for later purposes.[/quote]
    I could see that too. Maybe he’s in cahoots with the old lady in the jewelry store and that monk.

    But…..I remember hearing that when Desmond was first on the show, he was only supposed to be on for 3 episodes, but then D&C decided to bring the character back. I wonder how that ties into D&C’s original plan for this part of the story. Like you said earlier, Desmond is a VERY important part of the story. I couldn’t imagine the show if we never saw him again after he ran away from the Hatch.

  122. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189145"] so, how does daniel know about 1996, but can’t play a memory game? and can time travel affect the future then or not?[/quote]
    Well, were they playing a memory game or was he trying to get rid of the side effect? Now that he has his constant…

  123. mlc says:

    So does this mean desmond knows daniel before he meets him on the island? If you look towards the end of the third episode this season when desmond is asking the pilot at Penny….daniel looks at desmond as if he knows him.

  124. mlc says:

    sorry asking the pilot about penny not at penny

  125. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189147"][quote comment="189138"]
    I’m going back to my old theory that Widmore actually set Dez up to end up on the island, not because he wanted to get rid of him, but to make sure he was there for later purposes.[/quote]
    I could see that too. Maybe he’s in cahoots with the old lady in the jewelry store and that monk.

    But…..I remember hearing that when Desmond was first on the show, he was only supposed to be on for 3 episodes, but then D&C decided to bring the character back. I wonder how that ties into D&C’s original plan for this part of the story. Like you said earlier, Desmond is a VERY important part of the story. I couldn’t imagine the show if we never saw him again after he ran away from the Hatch.[/quote]
    It could have been a different character that was going to do all this travel stuff…and decided Dez was the better characer?

  126. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189137"]u say micheal name on the credits well so is charlies…???[/quote]

    I don’t believe “Charlie” who is portrayed by Dominic Monaghan is in the opening credits, Omar.

    Toeknee (#121) This was discussed in a podcast (don’t know which one since I listened to all of them for the first time this week). Not sure if it is okay to discuss here, though. If someone gives the “go-ahead” I will share what I remember.

    : ) P

  127. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189157"]Toeknee (#121) This was discussed in a podcast (don’t know which one since I listened to all of them for the first time this week). Not sure if it is okay to discuss here, though. If someone gives the “go-ahead” I will share what I remember.[/quote]

    Oops, replying to my own post. I actually think what I heard on the podcast was about Michael Emerson (Ben), not Desmond. Still, it may apply *grin*.

    : ) P

  128. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189156"]
    It could have been a different character that was going to do all this travel stuff…and decided Dez was the better characer?[/quote]
    Could be – I know that’s basically what they did with Henry Gale/Ben. And I’m sure if they did, a lot of the plot we’ve seen would have been significantly different. My head is spinning enough after this great episode – I couldn’t even begin to imagine how else these first four seasons could have played out with someone else doing Desmond’s duties.

  129. Angel says:

    is the dream a flashfoward or what?

  130. Angel says:

    i meant the dream in the beginning.

  131. skweez says:

    Thanks ToeKnee and Dukewm…

    OK, i remember Ms. Hawkings saying that you can’t change anything. So, if that’s the case, what was the deal with Dez going to see Daniel. Did Daniel write that “Desmond Hume is MY constant” note after Dez left and right before he decided to try his experiment on himself?

    Someone, please correct me if I’m wrong…. When Daniel saw the wreckage of 815, he didn’t know why he was upset. This was due to the fact that his future self had been to the island and knew what would happen OR is that scene to be looked at as a FF?

  132. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189137"]
    …u say micheal name on the credits well so is charlies…???
    [/quote]
    don’t lie (lying liarson). or waste time. Dom Monaghan was not of this shows credits. It went Mader… O’quinn… Perrineau. then the creators. then the guest stars. What bugs me is that Jeff Fahey (Frank) and Fisher Stevens (Minkowsy) are in the guest section. guess they won’t be around for long. While Miles, Charlotte and Daniel are up with the recurring regulars. That says something for who stays and goes!

  133. mlc says:

    [quote comment="189153"]So does this mean desmond knows daniel before he meets him on the island? If you look towards the end of the third episode this season when desmond is asking the pilot at Penny….daniel looks at desmond as if he knows him.[/quote]

    A further thought….Desmond was discharged from the army for disobeying orders. Could it be that he went AWOL to find Daniel as told by the 2004 Daniel which sets him on the course that he is on. Maybe the past desmond he knew he was going to need to call penny on christmas eve 2004 from an island so he takes part on the around the world sailing competition as a search for the island in a way.

  134. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189159"]
    Oops, replying to my own post. I actually think what I heard on the podcast was about Michael Emerson (Ben), not Desmond. Still, it may apply *grin*.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Dang! You got my hopes up – I was hoping to get more scoop about Desmond.

    But to address your comment about podcasts – I think they’re pretty much fair game for discussion unless you’re talking about events in upcoming episodes (i.e., spoilers).

  135. Hammer says:

    Bed time for Bonzo(me)…but I leave you all with this to ponder: Faraday says “you can’t change the future”. That is DHARMA’S whole objective, to change a factor in the Valenzetti equation to save the world(change the future). So is Faraday DHARMA?

  136. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189122"]
    more numbers = des to past daniel freq = 2.342 on 11 hertz. 11 doesnt register but 2.342 is our famous 23 & 42. how about penny’s future london phone number? no bells rung there.
    [/quote]
    Good catch on the frequency. Even seeing it written on Desmond’s hand I didn’t pick up on that.

    Another number – Penny’s address was 423.

    And, going back to the Eggtown episode, in tonight’s pop-ups, they said that the court dockett number was something like 23421516

  137. skweez says:

    What significance is it that Dez is Daniels constant. It didn’t seem like Daniel acted any different after first encountering Dez. Also, is this the reason Daniel comes to the island. He received info. that Dez was there?

  138. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189165"]What bugs me is that Jeff Fahey (Frank) and Fisher Stevens (Minkowsy) are in the guest section. guess they won’t be around for long. While Miles, Charlotte and Daniel are up with the recurring regulars. That says something for who stays and goes![/quote]

    It may have also have to do with how good their agents are ($$) or if they are under contract to some other studio. *grin*

    For example, if an actor is under contract elsewhere, they may be allowed to work for another studio only as a guest actor.

    Hope this makes sense.

    : ) P

  139. hurley says:

    The one thing that (possibly) confused me was the very last shot.

    If Penny, at the present point, contained knowledge of her past interaction with Desmond, than Daniel, at the present point, should also contain knowledge of his interaction with Desmond. Based on the way the scene was shot and played, it seemed that Daniel did not contain this knowledge until he came upon it in his journal. Now, if this is the case, it may be possible that Daniel, at the present point, somehow lost that memory until coming upon it in his journal – that seems to be the only explanation. However, my interpretation of the scene may be wrong and, perhaps, Daniel, at the present point, did contain this memory and was searching through his journal to come upon that page and remind himself of the impact and meaning of his work and his current setting. Remember, I am only talking about the last shot of Daniel, as his self ( his consciousness) then had experienced different circumstances than that of the one previously seen throughout the show.

    The parameters of Lost’s take on time haven’t been fully set out, so it is hard to judge anything yet. So far, the theory presented is ridiculous, but it is quite entertaining.

  140. skweez says:

    [quote comment="188993"]All I can say is this was what we (all of us who believed time travel was central to the island) have been waiting for. Hate to say I told you so… but… We told you so… Not gloating just Happy!

    An incredible Epi.[/quote]

    Can you expound, please?

  141. skweez says:

    [quote comment="189004"]time travel — that explains the polar bear and the french lady’s recording for 16 years — and walt appearing to john locke and telling him he has ‘work to do’[/quote]

    How does this explain the recording?

  142. Tasha says:

    Can someone explain to me….if time is slower on the island, then how come OFF of the island the dates are the same??? Or did I miss something???

  143. skweez says:

    [quote comment="189178"]Can someone explain to me….if time is slower on the island, then how come OFF of the island the dates are the same??? Or did I miss something???[/quote]

    I don’t think time is slower on the island, especially not after what happenned with the time it took for the helicopter to reach the freighter. If anything, time moves faster.

  144. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189171"]
    It may have also have to do with how good their agents are ($$) or if they are under contract to some other studio. *grin*. For example, if an actor is under contract elsewhere, they may be allowed to work for another studio only as a guest actor.
    [/quote]
    Same with Perrineau. Once he agreed to do another episode, his sweet deal was that he’d get a starring credit in every episode leading-up to the one that he actually appears in. That way he’d get union scale ($700+) per ep without doing any actual work. When he does show he’ll get at least 10 x Scale. Its been awhile for me. Scale is probably $1,000 now.

  145. Angel says:

    thats not fair. i live in california and im barely watching the episode and you guys have already watched it :(

  146. JD says:

    Does this episode explain some of the Oceanic Six? When the hatch explosion occurred, there were serveral who were off the beach away from the radiation, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley – held hostage by the Others. I believe Sayid, Jin and Sun were on Desmond’s boat trying to reach Jack and crew. Perhaps it was not safe for the ones who were on the beach in the vincinity of the hatch to be rescued since they were potentially exposed to radiation and it would not be safe to return given what Desmond experienced and probably all of them would not have a constant. Aaron can return because he doesn’t have any memories of the past but he’s not part of the six.

  147. omar says:

    [quote comment="189182"][quote comment="189171"]
    It may have also have to do with how good their agents are ($$) or if they are under contract to some other studio. *grin*. For example, if an actor is under contract elsewhere, they may be allowed to work for another studio only as a guest actor.
    [/quote]
    Same with Perrineau. Once he agreed to do another episode, his sweet deal was that he’d get a starring credit in every episode leading-up to the one that he actually appears in. That way he’d get union scale ($700+) per ep without doing any actual work. When he does show he’ll get at least 10 x Scale. Its been awhile for me. Scale is probably $1,000 now.[/quote]

    Yall need to quit speculating and bring some hard cold facts to the table

  148. skweez says:

    Last question before bed…

    Did Jack ever get an answer as to why it seemed like a day since the huey took off but it wasn’t really that long?

  149. mlc says:

    So this episode does mean that Desmond and Faraday knew each other before the island? Desmond’s dishonorable discharge from the army is a result of going AWOL in order to find Faraday which he was told to do from the “present” Faraday? Am I right to assume this?

  150. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189184"]
    thats not fair. i live in california and im barely watching the episode and you guys have already watched it :(
    [/quote]
    option 1: move.
    option 2: read fast and go to school on those you are watching with.
    :)

  151. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189186"]Yall need to quit speculating and bring some hard cold facts to the table[/quote]

    What is making you such a grumble-bump tonight, Omar, love? Saying that “Michael” is in the credits and “Charlie” isn’t in the credits was not speculation. It was fact.

    The remainder of the answer was meant to show that an actor’s credit as star or guest star does not necessarily indicate the “health” or future demise of his or her character, because it may also be dictated by his or her contract.

    : ) P

  152. Angel says:

    [quote comment="189192"][quote comment="189184"]
    thats not fair. i live in california and im barely watching the episode and you guys have already watched it :(
    [/quote]
    option 1: move.
    option 2: read fast and go to school on those you are watching with.
    :)[/quote]

    i dont understand the second option

  153. Nice to see a lot of familiar names around here! (Hammer, DocH, lostchika, Toeknee, Tasha)
    I’m forcing myself to stay away from all LOST online content… but I couldn’t resist tonight.

    They’ve been knocking it out of the park this whole season. Each episode gets better, and tonight was probably one of their best episodes of all time.

    Above all, the acting tonight, from everyone – but especially from Desmond and Faraday – was absolutely superb…just downright moving. Emmy-award quality.

  154. lostlaur* says:

    hurley (#139)

    I don’t really get that too much either but I think it has to do with that random mind altering bubble around the island. Both Desmond and Dan broke through it the wrong way or were exposed to something that invoked the effects of what I’m going to call the bubble from now on.
    Since Penny is off the island and has never encountered the bubble she would only know the random intrusion Desmond made in her life before disappearing for a few years to disappear on a sailboat.

    Daniel is also kind of a different case though- he’s been messing with this stuff for a while so he’s been exposed to all sorts of stuff that others haven’t. It really seems to me that he knew about the island & its effect since he thought ahead of time to write “Desmond Hume is my constant”

    Does that make any sense haha? This stuff is all so mind-blowing and not fully explained so I’m just reaching for straws here.

    Side note: Hammer where is “Bedtime for Bonzo” from? My mom used to say it to me all the time & I’ve never asked what it was from…

    Anyway I’ve been obsessing for almost 3 hrs now. I’ll be back tomorrow for the 800 new posts : )

  155. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189195"][quote comment="189192"][quote comment="189184"]
    thats not fair. i live in california and im barely watching the episode and you guys have already watched it :(
    [/quote]
    option 1: move.
    option 2: read fast and go to school on those you are watching with.
    :)[/quote]

    i dont understand the second option[/quote]

    I think it means, read all the posts and then shock your friends with all the cool insights you have on the episode before it is even over yet!

    : ) P

  156. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="189179"][quote comment="189178"]Can someone explain to me….if time is slower on the island, then how come OFF of the island the dates are the same??? Or did I miss something???[/quote]

    I don’t think time is slower on the island, especially not after what happenned with the time it took for the helicopter to reach the freighter. If anything, time moves faster.[/quote]

    Umm….Sorry? LOL. That is what I meant. Either way. IT seems that time might be moving faster on the island or off….WOW I am confusing myself!

    Time on AND off the island moves differently, am I right or wrong? If so why is the date still the same?

  157. lost chicka says:

    >> if daniel has memory problems, how can he remember all this scientific stuff????

    > minkoski seemed to have a good idea of what was happening in the present time and past. he could still remember what happened a while back when the wires got cut off when his nose started to believe, right before he died. desmond doesn’t even remember sayid on the other hand and is still alive. so how does that whole thing work????

  158. murrayhead says:

    I am new to the posts here but love everyone’s theories about what the heck is going on! I would like someone to clarify for me what the journal Mr. Widmore bid on is all about – I missed that.

    Thanks!

  159. hurley says:

    [quote comment="189200"]>> if daniel has memory problems, how can he remember all this scientific stuff????

    > minkoski seemed to have a good idea of what was happening in the present time and past. he could still remember what happened a while back when the wires got cut off when his nose started to believe, right before he died. desmond doesn’t even remember sayid on the other hand and is still alive. so how does that whole thing work????[/quote]

    The thing is, Desmond, after the initial time travel on the heli, is actually a consciousness from the past. While Minkowski seemed to retain himself as a consciousness from the present. Why is it different between the two? Who knows. What happened to the consciousness of Desmond that existed before the incident on the heli? Who knows. It doesn’t have to make perfect sense. That’s the beauty of fiction.

  160. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189197"]
    Since Penny is off the island and has never encountered the bubble, she would only know the random intrusion Desmond made in her life before disappearing…
    Side note: Hammer where is “Bedtime for Bonzo” from? My mom used to say it to me all the time; I’ve never asked what it was from…
    [/quote]
    Don’ assume anything about Penny. My advice. Remember when Des first aprroached Daniel in ’96 in the courtyard at the Univ. Daniel was affronted and implied that some of his peers or higher ups sent Des there to humiliate or mock him. Des quickly assuaded Daniel, but my first impression was that the Widmore, Hanso, Paik types were behind the Daniel mocking.
    The Bonzo ref is in re: to the ’50s movie starring b-movie actor Ron Reagan and a chimp named Bonzo. There were several. Reagan made fun of that thru his political career. Hammer refers to Hammer as Bonzo because Hammer is the next lab animal to go through Daniels experimental time travel (slash death ray) tests. [;^)

    lostlaur* = mom was calling the youthful you – a chimpanzee!

  161. Angel says:

    does anybody know who or what hume is?

  162. hurley says:

    I don’t think Daniel broke through “it” the wrong way. I don’t think there is any evidence that he is experiencing any sort of time travel. In fact, I think Daniel’s experience is quite normal.

    However, what you have to understand is that the Daniel (and in fact everyone else) that you see at the end is (or should be) a somewhat different Daniel than you have seen so far – based on his interaction with Des. That is not to say I make any assumptions about what happened between the time Des visited him at Oxford and when we last see him – in fact, the time between may not exist (think of an instant of time not as a segment in a line but as a single point – to get from A to C we may not need to pass through B even though B exists). In any case, the Daniel we see at the end DID meet Des. So, he should have knowledge of this in the moment in which we see him. Truth is, he may. However, the way the scene was played by the actor it appeared he didn’t until he came across the note in his journal – which would be inconsistent with Penny’s behavior over the phone – unless this memory was somehow wiped.

    Again, it’s sci-fi so it doesn’t really have to make perfect sense.

    [quote comment="189197"]hurley (#139)

    I don’t really get that too much either but I think it has to do with that random mind altering bubble around the island. Both Desmond and Dan broke through it the wrong way or were exposed to something that invoked the effects of what I’m going to call the bubble from now on.
    Since Penny is off the island and has never encountered the bubble she would only know the random intrusion Desmond made in her life before disappearing for a few years to disappear on a sailboat.

    Daniel is also kind of a different case though- he’s been messing with this stuff for a while so he’s been exposed to all sorts of stuff that others haven’t. It really seems to me that he knew about the island & its effect since he thought ahead of time to write “Desmond Hume is my constant”

    Does that make any sense haha? This stuff is all so mind-blowing and not fully explained so I’m just reaching for straws here.

    Side note: Hammer where is “Bedtime for Bonzo” from? My mom used to say it to me all the time & I’ve never asked what it was from…

    Anyway I’ve been obsessing for almost 3 hrs now. I’ll be back tomorrow for the 800 new posts : )[/quote]

  163. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="189213"]does anybody know who or what hume is?[/quote]

    desmond’s last name. :)

  164. Angel says:

    [quote comment="189217"][quote comment="189213"]does anybody know who or what hume is?[/quote]

    desmond’s last name. :)[/quote]

    but didnt he write. “if anything goes wrong desmond, hume is my constant.”

  165. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="189213"]does anybody know who or what hume is?[/quote]

    All I know is David Hume who was a very important figure in Philosophy.

  166. DocH says:

    I was just re-watching the beginning of “The Constant” and saw the big electrical storm ahead of the helo when –
    Whoa!
    I just had a major flashback of 28 years when I first saw the movie “Final Countdown” – Kirk Douglas, Martin Sheen just North of Hawaii on a USN Carrier. They go thru a massive electrical storm and wind-up back in time – the day before Pearl Harbor – with the chance to launch all the jet fighters/bombers against the Japanese fleet before they attack.
    Okay. I’m back now. Nose is a little bloody.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Countdown_%28film%29

  167. lost chicka says:

    daniel does have locke’s map he drew in lockdown. why????

    the beauty of sci-fi, or any fiction really, it doesn’t have to make sense. the good guy doesn’t always get the girl, and the good guy sometimes winds up time traveling in need of a constant among all his variables.

  168. Equation says:

    Time only goes slower when you pass through the bubble. But the phones are in sync, so its confusing. Missile takes off from ship…shows up late. Helicopter takes off from island. Shows up late.

  169. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189215"]However, the way the scene was played by the actor it appeared he didn’t until he came across the note in his journal – which would be inconsistent with Penny’s behavior over the phone – unless this memory was somehow wiped.[/quote]

    Well this may be why we see Daniel “practicing” his memory with Charlotte. Maybe they gave him a history of forgetting stuff to explain why he doesn’t remember meeting Desmond in 1996.

    : ) P

  170. chicago37 says:

    Just a thought, but I am wondering if Jack is time traveling too and if what these events we are seeing on the island are already “the past,” so to speak. That is to say that our main characters have gone back in time to be there.

    The opening scene of the pilot episode has never made sense to me. Jack wakes up in the woods – nowhere near the wreckage. He is looking up at tall trees that are close together. There is no way he fell out of the sky and through those trees and only suffered that one laceration (the one Kate sewed up). It just seemed like he was placed there or something. And when he woke up, he headed straight for the beach where the wreckage was. How did he know which way to go?

    And, of course, Locke always knows when it is going to rain. And didn’t he sort of have a vision of Boone dying before it happened?

    I thought some people had theorized a long time ago that the dead bodies in the cave were Kate and Jack. This was based on the time travel/looping thing.

  171. Ben says:

    I have a picture of the guy with binoculars. Too big for Michael. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/bengance/man_lost_the_constant.jpg

  172. NewHere says:

    Daniel Faraday . . . anyone care to discuss the connection to Michael Faraday, the physicist and chemist after whom Faraday’s Constant is named, and one of the founders of electromagnetism? (Might be too obvious, but I was excited to see the reference).

  173. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189215"]… he should have knowledge of this in the moment in which we see him. Truth is, he may. However, the way the scene was played by the actor it appeared he didn’t until he came across the note in his journal – which would be inconsistent with Penny’s behavior over the phone – unless this memory was somehow wiped.
    [/quote]
    Here is a brain-bender. Last week – Charlotte and Daniel doing the three card monty where Daniel has to recite the value & suit of the three face down playing cards. Now the question. Did Charlotte JUST show Daniel the cards? or did she show him 8 years (or any # of yrs) ago? And this is the test they use (repeatedly?) to test Daniel, whenever Daniel starts to lose it or zone out. Kind of like his own personal DUI/sobriety test.

  174. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="189235"]I have a picture of the guy with binoculars. Too big for Michael. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/bengance/man_lost_the_constant.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    I think its too big to be him unless he gained a whole lot of weight!

    Chicago 37- I always wondered about that too. I have always thought that it was all staged at the beginning but it never added up. I have blown it off but you might be on to something there.

  175. lost chicka says:

    chicago37: well jack may have known where the crash was bcuz he could hear people screaming (as you can on the episode). it was a miracle any of them survived the crash, like sayid said in one of the first couple of episodes to kate (yes i watch the old ones frequently enough that i remember that). and predicting rain is pretty easy, rain has a smell and jungle man locke can do just about anything on the island (predicting rain is one of his gifts from the island :P).

  176. dorian says:

    The best episode of Lost and probably the best episode of TV (and I’m a trek fan) ever. Absolutely incredible. I had tears streaming down my face, and I’m bloke. Incredible. How can they top that?

  177. skyky says:

    Anyone think the shot that the communication officer got in this episode was the same shot Sayid got from Ben 2 weeks ago?

    If so, does Sayid get affected by the time travel issue, or is this just a precautionary measure by Ben because he is going to send Sayid back to the island.

  178. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="189236"]Daniel Faraday . . . anyone care to discuss the connection to Michael Faraday, the physicist and chemist after whom Faraday’s Constant is named, and one of the founders of electromagnetism? (Might be too obvious, but I was excited to see the reference).[/quote]

    michael faraday was born on….September 22, 1791. lol.

  179. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189230"]
    Time only goes slower when you pass through the bubble. But the phones are in sync, so its confusing. Missile takes off from ship…shows up late. Helicopter takes off from island. Shows up late.
    [/quote]
    – the 120 mph helicopter took about 6 hours to get to the freighter,
    – the 1200 mph rocket took just over a half hour to get to the freighter,
    – 669,600,000 mph radio phone call took “X” seconds to get to the freighter?

    (Answer: 0.003871 seconds)
    I thought I noticed the difference.

  180. Jeff Brown says:

    This has to be one of the top episodes ever. If you didn’t get choked up at the end with Penny and Desmond you just didn’t get it. First series that I’ve ever watch that started great and then kind of sucked and then has come back to be one of the best show out there.

  181. Rachel says:

    [quote comment="189014"]Desmond will be fine, he’s not gonna die, he has reconnected with his constant…Minkowski on the other hand has not found his constant…and Daniel knows this and that’s why he wrote it down back in 1996 in his notepad, Daniel’s not so much of a headcase anymore, just is smarter than all of the others and knows much more than anyone…can’t wait to see his episode[/quote]

  182. Robuscus says:

    [quote comment="189247"][quote comment="189230"]
    Time only goes slower when you pass through the bubble. But the phones are in sync, so its confusing. Missile takes off from ship…shows up late. Helicopter takes off from island. Shows up late.
    [/quote]
    – the 120 mph helicopter took about 6 hours to get to the freighter,
    – the 1200 mph rocket took just over a half hour to get to the freighter,
    – 669,600,000 mph radio phone call took “X” seconds to get to the freighter?

    (Answer: 0.003871 seconds)
    I thought I noticed the difference.[/quote]

    What’s up, Doc? Having fun with your calculator, I see. But seriously…good comments this week. That’s what you should be doing–keeping everyone in line utilizing your mad googlin’ skills.

  183. mike says:

    -I didn’t really think about this until right now, but when Rousseau’s exploration ship or whatever it was crashed and everyone died from a “sickness”, what do you think the chances are that the sickness was the sort of thing des experienced.

  184. Gigantopithecus says:

    Oceanic flight 815 crashed and the passengers are all dead. Their consciousnesses, however, are somehow trapped in the time warp that is associated with this Island.

  185. hurley says:

    [quote comment="189231"][quote comment="189215"]However, the way the scene was played by the actor it appeared he didn’t until he came across the note in his journal – which would be inconsistent with Penny’s behavior over the phone – unless this memory was somehow wiped.[/quote]

    Well this may be why we see Daniel “practicing” his memory with Charlotte. Maybe they gave him a history of forgetting stuff to explain why he doesn’t remember meeting Desmond in 1996.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Again, the Daniel we saw before the last scene of this episode HAD NOT met Des. Only the Daniel we see at the very end HAD met Des. So, it would be impossible for him to have remembered or forgot Des when he first arrived on the island because that interaction hadn’t happened yet. It appears time is not a continuous line in Lost and that moments in time can be altered by other moments in time. There is no fatalism here – the future can be changed.

  186. Freckles says:

    >When Charlie got in touch w/ Penny did it look like she was in her apartment?
    >What’s up with Penny’s pop leaving the water on in the bathroom?

  187. Lost Fan 99 says:

    I think there is some significance that Desmond’s left eye looks slightly bigger than his right eye in 1996. Might be that his mind travel caused the right side of his brain to trigger a growth in his left eye.

  188. PigmeHippo says:

    I just thought of this… I wonder if Frank and Sawyer are related? They look very similar….maybe a little too similar????

  189. JabaModern says:

    If you go back to the scene in the auction house, take a long hard look at the crowd. I’m positive Naomi, Anna Lucia and Charlie are sitting there!

  190. any four word phase says:

    OTHER BIDDERS

    does anyone have a screen shot of the auction scene? I’m pretty sure BEN and Ms Hawking are both there. Ben is on the opposite side of Widimore, back row, isle seat. He has a pony tail. Hawkings is directly in front of him.

    A screenshot would be greatly appreciated. Thoughts?

  191. any four word phase says:

    [quote comment="189275"]If you go back to the scene in the auction house, take a long hard look at the crowd. I’m positive Naomi, Anna Lucia and Charlie are sitting there![/quote]

    I definitely don’t see any of them there. Maybe Ben and Hawkings. Do you have a screen shot of the audience head on?

  192. Bobola says:

    Great episode.
    The Auction scene was cool; I love villains and Penny’s Dad seems like a good fit. Nice painting of the Ship.

    I like the Chopper pilot too. Seems like a good guy trying to help the Losties. But he seems a bit scared of the Ship Crew; is he the one who opened to door for them?
    Why is the Ship crew too dumb to post a guard?

    LostChicka; Have you ever been to Oxford?
    I’m sure they care a lot more about brains than haircuts…I’ve seen plenty of freaks at big colleges.

    Charlotte is one super bitch; condescending and catty.
    I would have slapped her silly when she started telling Daniel to shut up. I’d bet she and Miles are a couple as they both have smart mouths and keep secrets. I’d keep her ass tied up; she can’t be trusted at all and she is sure to cause trouble.
    I’d separate her and Daniel; ask questions, and if I didn’t believe her…I’d give her just one more chance to tell the truth before she got her own Miles Style Sandwich. (…enjoy your breakfast!)
    I bet Charlotte and Freckles go at it soon. Or maybe a cat fight with Sun…or….?
    I miss Jin and Sun…come on…more please.

    If I was on the Chopper that landed on the ship I’d be asking about food pretty quickly. Don’t these folks get hungry?

  193. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="189237"][quote comment="189215"]… he should have knowledge of this in the moment in which we see him. Truth is, he may. However, the way the scene was played by the actor it appeared he didn’t until he came across the note in his journal – which would be inconsistent with Penny’s behavior over the phone – unless this memory was somehow wiped.
    [/quote]
    Here is a brain-bender. Last week – Charlotte and Daniel doing the three card monty where Daniel has to recite the value & suit of the three face down playing cards. Now the question. Did Charlotte JUST show Daniel the cards? or did she show him 8 years (or any # of yrs) ago? And this is the test they use (repeatedly?) to test Daniel, whenever Daniel starts to lose it or zone out. Kind of like his own personal DUI/sobriety test.[/quote]

    Daniel did say that the side effect was different for everyone. When he first landed on the island Jack asked him who he was and it took about 3-4 seconds before he gave his name. Like he couldn’t remember it. He could be “remembering” the cards from sometime in the near future. Perhaps Charlotte deals three cards and then Daniel “remembers” what they will be when they are turned over.

    I was wondering why Desmond would be Daniele’s constant since he told Des that the constant had to be something very important to you but I guess it’s because Des helped him with his research.

    Toeknee, It was next Thursday 31 minutes ago. We now have to wait for it to come around again.

  194. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189259"]-I didn’t really think about this until right now, but when Rousseau’s exploration ship or whatever it was crashed and everyone died from a “sickness”, what do you think the chances are that the sickness was the sort of thing des experienced.[/quote]
    Absolutely…possible. LOL

  195. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189196"]Nice to see a lot of familiar names around here! (Hammer, DocH, lostchika, Toeknee, Tasha)
    I’m forcing myself to stay away from all LOST online content… but I couldn’t resist tonight.

    They’ve been knocking it out of the park this whole season. Each episode gets better, and tonight was probably one of their best episodes of all time.

    Above all, the acting tonight, from everyone – but especially from Desmond and Faraday – was absolutely superb…just downright moving. Emmy-award quality.[/quote]Sorry you’ve been hiding, you were always helpful in the past.

  196. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189197"]
    Side note: Hammer where is “Bedtime for Bonzo” from? My mom used to say it to me all the time & I’ve never asked what it was from…

    )[/quote]I’m strugglin to remember if it was TV show or just a story book. But Bonzo was a monkey and that was the catch phrase for him to go to bed.

  197. Hammer says:

    So just trying to put it all together. Widmore buys the book, finds out about the island and what’s going on there, sets up Dez to end up there(don’t know why yet). Dez goes missing, Penny decides that she needs to find him…

    Faraday’s card game was one attempt to stop the side effects, then Dez comes along and he realizes that’s his constant. Also, he is the “mad man”(one of the four Naomi tells the Addenon(sp?) she feels shouldn’t be going on the trip). So he is assumed crazy because of the conscience time travel. (Is Hurley doing the same thing or is he really nutzo?).

    I agree with an earlier post that the virus is not virus but the side effect and the injections are an attempt to fix the side effects but obviously don’t completely work.

  198. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189310"]
    Here is a brain-bender. Last week – Charlotte and Daniel doing the three card monty where Daniel has to recite the value & suit of the three face down playing cards. Now the question. Did Charlotte JUST show Daniel the cards? or did she show him 8 years (or any # of yrs) ago? [/quote].[/quote]
    I think the time from for the jump was short for the card game…similar to the one hour deal for the mouse.

  199. brooke says:

    Does anyone know how many episodes we will have left? Thanks!

  200. DP says:

    Shane –

    I love that movie, and it never even occurred to me that Penny being an anchor might homage to the penny in C. Reeves’ pocket that blew the whole thing in the movie. It was one of the most beautiful movies I’ve ever seen.

    I’m also anxious to see what is in that journal Widmore bought and how it might relate to Penny finally finding Desmond.

    Peace.

  201. DP says:

    Hammer & Lostlaur:

    “Bedtime for Bonzo” was a flick from 1951 starring Ronald Reagan and a chimp (Bonzo).

    D

  202. Pibby says:

    [quote comment="189033"]How come Sahid can fix anything??? That commincations tower on the boat was pretty messed up, and how does penelope have the same phone number for 8 years, and if she did then how she gonna give him the real number after that crazy story….This show is not making any sense now or maybe it was just this episode… if i was in charge i would blow up the whole island and be done for it…Obama for president 08….[/quote]

  203. Pibby says:

    how does penelope have the same phone number for 8 years

    I’ve had my phone number for the past 20 years. Why would she change her number?

  204. intolost says:

    Wow! It’s like Star Trek! I think Widmore is totally evil and definitely knows all about the island, Black Rock, etc. I’m thinking maybe Abaddon is working for Widmore. Perhaps Ben is the good guy trying to protect the losties and the island. Sorry, but I’m afraid our Des is a dead man walking.

  205. intolost says:

    I think a dead Des and more is why Faraday is bawling in his fast forward.

  206. Tim says:

    [quote comment="189441"]I think a dead Des and more is why Faraday is bawling in his fast forward.[/quote]

    I think it was a flash back.

    That being said, maybe he time travels and appears to blank out while doing it.
    That would account for his caretaker.

    And when he was crying, it was because he had just time traveled to somewhere that involves the island story and he just “came back”.

  207. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189265"][quote comment="189231"][quote comment="189215"]However, the way the scene was played by the actor it appeared he didn’t until he came across the note in his journal – which would be inconsistent with Penny’s behavior over the phone – unless this memory was somehow wiped.[/quote]

    Well this may be why we see Daniel “practicing” his memory with Charlotte. Maybe they gave him a history of forgetting stuff to explain why he doesn’t remember meeting Desmond in 1996.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Again, the Daniel we saw before the last scene of this episode HAD NOT met Des. Only the Daniel we see at the very end HAD met Des. So, it would be impossible for him to have remembered or forgot Des when he first arrived on the island because that interaction hadn’t happened yet. It appears time is not a continuous line in Lost and that moments in time can be altered by other moments in time. There is no fatalism here – the future can be changed.[/quote]

    I’m not so sure that your conclusion is accurate, that the future can be changed. Daniel had to have met Desmond, in order to record in his notebook that Desmond is his Constant.

    If you buy into the future can not be changed then it does not matter how they interacted prior to Desmond getting on the heli. If future can not be changed, Faraday will figure out that his radiation exposure machine will work eventually, whether in 1996 Desmond tells him or not.

    As it stands he thinks that Desmond is the key to him understanding how his radiation machine worked, so Desmond became important to him, and at some point after their encounter he realized that Desmond should be his Constant.

  208. Bruno says:

    How do we know it’s really 2004 on the boat? Only because of the calendar on the wall!
    This could have been planted there to confuse Des.

    And when he called Penny, it was Xmas eve, right, but nothing to say it was 2004. In his conversation with Penny there is no mention of dates or time.

  209. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189191"]So this episode does mean that Desmond and Faraday knew each other before the island? Desmond’s dishonorable discharge from the army is a result of going AWOL in order to find Faraday which he was told to do from the “present” Faraday? Am I right to assume this?[/quote]

    We don’t know what his dishonorable discharge is for yet. I don’t think he went AWOL to find Farrady, he told Penny he had 2 days leave and he was going to go see her. He then went to see 1996 Farraday.

  210. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189451"]How do we know it’s really 2004 on the boat? Only because of the calendar on the wall!
    This could have been planted there to confuse Des.

    And when he called Penny, it was Xmas eve, right, but nothing to say it was 2004. In his conversation with Penny there is no mention of dates or time.[/quote]

    The short answer is that writers in podcasts said that everything (save flash forwards) is taking place in 2004.

  211. Tim says:

    So when Desmond goes back in time and inhabits his own body, he goes and talks to Penny.
    When he goes back to the current time, does his conscience self of 1996 realize what happened?
    I don’t think so, which means Desmond didn’t know he had met Daniel before, but Daniel did.

    What I mean is, only one of the consciences, either the one from 1996 or the one from 2004 could perceive what was happening at the time and it was clearly the one from 2004. The one from 1996 must have been blacked-out.

  212. Josh says:

    Not much time, but I don’t think this has been mentioned yet:
    Des destroys the hatch
    Des escapes by sailboat, comes back after hitting a big storm
    Des begins to see the future
    Des leaves by heli, begins to see the past

  213. adriennez says:

    I am interested in the previously mentioned “vile vortices” idea. The map on wikipedia show the places on the globe where they are supposedly located and there is one on either side of the continent of Australia, one near Madagascar(where the Black Rock journal that Charles Widmore won in auction was found), one near Antarctica(polar bears), and one near Tunisia(where Charlotte found the polar bear skeleton with the Dharma tag). Very interesting…

    This was an awesome episode. The scene with Des and Penny on the phone was so moving…I love their love story!

    I still do not understand why Charles Widmore hates Des so much…it just seems more than you’re not good enough for my daughter. Did anyone else think it was weird when they were in the bathroom at the auction house and when he was done washing his hands, he left the faucet running…did he know that it would do something to Des?!

    I still stick with my thought from last week that Miles was Ben’s “man on the boat”. Their conversation was not really about extortion but they were talking in code. They both have that ghost whisperer thing going on and maybe got in contact that way, which is why Miles asked Ben if he knew who he was.

    I think maybe there are two different factions on that boat…the scientist guys and Frank(who is there because he feels some kind of responsibility because he was supposed to be the pilot of 815) and the tough guys who I think work for Charles Widmore.

    Great episode!

  214. rdizzle says:

    [quote comment="189059"][quote comment="189056"]Minkowski as Ben’s man on the boat? Ben talking to him in the past?[/quote]

    no becuase then who opend the door to let them out of the clinic[/quote]

    I think Ben’s spy on the boat is BEN. He probably has the ability to choose when he goes back in time, and he’s jumping all over the place. I don’t know. I’m at work… bored and tired. lol.

  215. lostfanatic says:

    Did anyone else notice that Sayid has a scar on his left arm through some of the episode of the Economist(when on the island) but not in the future when he is with the woman that he killed. I also noticed that he had the scar in this episode. Does this have anything to do with the time travel?

  216. Tim says:

    “…Again, the Daniel we saw before the last scene of this episode HAD NOT met Des. Only the Daniel we see at the very end HAD met Des…”

    I think it is the other way around. Daniel had met him and even noted his name in his journal.
    Desmond had not met Daniel yet because his 1996 conscience was blacked out when the 2004 conscience took over and met Daniel.

  217. Lost101773 says:

    IMO, last night’s episode that centered around Desmond was the most brilliant since the LOST series began. Brilliant writing. I can’t even begin to comment on what all of it means…nor will I attempt to hypothesize about it! I’m just along for the riding and enjoying the heck out of it!!!!

  218. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189459"]So when Desmond goes back in time and inhabits his own body, he goes and talks to Penny.
    When he goes back to the current time, does his conscience self of 1996 realize what happened?
    I don’t think so, which means Desmond didn’t know he had met Daniel before, but Daniel did.

    What I mean is, only one of the consciences, either the one from 1996 or the one from 2004 could perceive what was happening at the time and it was clearly the one from 2004. The one from 1996 must have been blacked-out.[/quote]

    I hadn’t thought of things like that, but now that you mention it, Desmond of 2004 SHOULD have known who Farraday was,as Farraday was the impetus of him naming Penny as his Constant. Surely the crazy set of circumstances in 1996 would have stayed with him.

    The only explanation I can come up with, is the effects of the heavy exposure to electromagnetism, when the hatch exploded, affected his memory, but they just didn’t really talk about it on the show.

  219. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189451"]And when he called Penny, it was Xmas eve, right, but nothing to say it was 2004. In his conversation with Penny there is no mention of dates or time.[/quote]

    Hmmm. She did say she had been looking for him for three years. She did see him sometime in 2001, so she might have started when he first went missing on his sailing adventure. Perhaps she started looking on December 24, 2004, when she didn’t get the call she was expecting?

    RGS (#211) The podcasts did talk about it being 2004, but I thought, as usual, D&C were a little guileful in their answer! *g*

    : ) P

  220. Fara-dayo says:

    Great that we finally see something about the Black Rock! Next up, some info on the 4 toed people who made the statue.

  221. rdizzle says:

    [quote comment="189081"]

    > des is affected by the electromagnets (and possibly radiation from the implosion?). daniel by the radiation of his experiments. so what was minkowski and brandon affected by???

    omar (48): yes, sayid is superman of the communication devices. the republican guard trains very well apparently. who else could fix that messed up of a thing and make it work? and penny having the same number for 8 years, makes sense but for whatever reason i don’t see her keeping a number that long (i know she’s not kate but it still doesn’t seem to fit her really) unless for some reason she took des seriously when he said the 12/24/04 and rememberd it somehow.

    quote]

    Who is this “Brandon” people keep talking about? I think I must have missed something.

    Also, everyone keeps saying Sayid fixing the communications is bogus…. I would agree, BUT, he only fixed the red phone and hooked it up to a battery… it’s not like he fixed all that equipment… Just one little thing, so it’s plausible.

  222. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189474"][quote comment="189451"]And when he called Penny, it was Xmas eve, right, but nothing to say it was 2004. In his conversation with Penny there is no mention of dates or time.[/quote]

    Hmmm. She did say she had been looking for him for three years. She did see him sometime in 2001, so she might have started when he first went missing on his sailing adventure. Perhaps she started looking on December 24, 2004, when she didn’t get the call she was expecting?

    RGS (#211) The podcasts did talk about it being 2004, but I thought, as usual, D&C were a little guileful in their answer! *g*

    : ) P[/quote]

    It is Lost and now that time travelling consciousness is involved…who knows. But my question would then be, how did they know Desmond was going to go into the room with the calendar? Why would they pick 2004 as the year that they need to fool him with, he wasn’t on the plane crash, and they supposedly didn’t think there’d be any 815 survivors to link that up with?

  223. RGS says:

    rdizz 222 Brandon and Minkowski went to look for the island on a boat. He said as much, when they returned the time traveling stuff started happening to them. Brandon ended up dying quicker (not exactly sure how he died).

  224. lostfanatic says:

    And the time travel can also explain how Mikale can come back from the dead.

  225. Tim says:

    I thought the creators of the show dismissed all of this time travel stuff (except for Desmond).
    Now if this is going to become widespread, doesn’t that mean they lied or mislead us?
    Either that or we are theorizing to much about time travel in this show.

  226. rdizzle says:

    [quote comment="189132"]to the person that also asked “who’s michael?” lostpedia.com

    thanks,hammer! i’m new to this blog and trying to play catch-up[/quote]

    you must also be new to LOST…

  227. 2sweetpete says:

    des and faraday havent met in the past untill they met on the island sort of a back to the future thing it has to happen in the future and changes the past

  228. Pete says:

    How long have the Losties actually been on the island? We know that on the island the helicopter was gone for a day and a half, but in reality only about twenty minutes. We also know that when the rocket with the clock was shot from the boat to the island it was over an hour behind schedule.

    Based on the time that past on the island (36 hrs) since the helicopter left and how long it actually took the helicopter to get to the boat (20 min), does that mean that in the world outside of the island Flight 851 crashed only approximately 21 hours ago?

    There’s some holes in this theory based on things that have gone on in the outside world between the crash and now. Thoughts?

  229. Tasha says:

    They must have known Des was on the island. Why would Naomi have had a picture of him and Penny?

  230. Tim says:

    This is from 3 years ago but…

    http://www.lostisagame.com/articles/debunk_time%20_travel.htm

    “I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel.”

  231. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189488"]How long have the Losties actually been on the island? We know that on the island the helicopter was gone for a day and a half, but in reality only about twenty minutes. We also know that when the rocket with the clock was shot from the boat to the island it was over an hour behind schedule.

    Based on the time that past on the island (36 hrs) since the helicopter left and how long it actually took the helicopter to get to the boat (20 min), does that mean that in the world outside of the island Flight 851 crashed only approximately 21 hours ago?

    There’s some holes in this theory based on things that have gone on in the outside world between the crash and now. Thoughts?[/quote]

    Why do we know the helicopter has only been gone in “our” world for only 20 minutes? I think CircusM or one of the Lauras, and I agree with it, that the time loss only occurs when you are passing in the “bubble” that surrounds the island. So for instance, it may take 18 hours to get through the bubble via air.

  232. Tina says:

    Gr..I wrote this lengthy post and the internet ate it. I hate you internets…

    RGS: I think you’re on to something! However, I think that though the universe “course corrects” the people involved still sort of need to be involved in the course corrections for the sake of continuity. I’m not sure why, but mostly I think its to avoid paradoxes.

    On Headings: Nautical Headings are directional navigation tool. If someone is at point a and wants to get to point c they would head south. If the same person were at point b and wanted to head to point c, they might need to head southwest. This is why longtitudinal & lattitudianl coordinates are so neccesary and helpful. They are more exact points than directions. When these two tools are used in concert, accuracy in enhanced.

    On Time Bending: I think the mental deterioration we witness of the Desmond, Minikowski, & Daniel is the result of the consciousness time travelling. The brain compartmentalizes the experiences in such a way as to allow the brain to decompress and not effectually “implode” from the effects of the travel. This has got to be related to the sickness Rousseau mentions earlier in the episodes. The question becomes, why some and not others?

    I also think getting to the island is sort of like looking at those 3d image opitcal puzzles. If you stare at them long enough and relax your ocular muscles you begin to see the hidden image, but as soon as you blink or look away you lose it. However you get it back when you look again and it takes less time to find the image.

    LAA meeting soon guys?

  233. Tasha says:

    I still think it is some type of dimensional thing which ties into time travel. Maybe in a different dimension time is different or moves differently. During the first part of the episode I felt that way because Des kept “leaving.” He even said that. He told his friend that he left. Daniel asked where he was. Not only could it have been time travel but the question could have been “where” as in “what dimension.” The mind was traveling back and forth between two different times and worlds. In one world he had met Daniel in the other he hadn’t.

    Yeah I know….a little far fetched. I am not getting a degree in physics….I am trying to get a degree in communications so I don’t know much about this kind of stuff.

  234. nicunurse says:

    Several things:

    The injections given are two different things (one clear, one yellow)…I had the impression that Sayid’s shot was supposed to be a numbing agent before removing the bullet…and Minkowski’s was a sedative.

    RE Doc H 173:Excellent idea with the cards…and how long ago he was supposed to remember them from…since Charlotte was the one that put out the cards, it had to be a test from the not to distant past (assuming Charlotte and Daniel have only known eachother since this venture)
    RE JD 146: LOVED the idea that only some can go back because of the exposure to radiation (and thus Sayid, Jack, Hurley, Kate Jin and Sun COULD go back) (as could Sawyer but I think he chooses not to). This might help explain why Jack is so upset about Aaron…Jack thinks Aaron should have stayed with Claire (who can’t leave)but Claire asks Kate to take Aaron back to have a normal life and kate agrees..
    Great episode….Hey Laura*…could you decifer those equations Daniel of Oxford had on his blackboard?

  235. Robin says:

    New to the blog – Love the theories – We have yet to meet the woman (Regina?/Naomi’s sister) who supposedly received satelitte phone calls on the freighter (same boat?) and launched the missile in Dan’s time test. She may also have some answers.

  236. Tasha says:

    Oh and I was thinking….regarding pregnant women on the island. We don’t really know why the mothers and babies die, but could it be an affect of the radiation or electromagnetism? They do not travel through the bubble though. But womens hormones whack out when pregnant….could this have something to do with like the rat dying? I remember Claire’s nose bleeding anyway.

  237. vavila says:

    lostlaur* 77: i think that the exponential thing was that once Des got off the island and the sideeffects began to kick in exponential manner: he was travellign into the past more frequently(and soon he would completely loose his ancor and would not be able to distinguish between pasta nd present and if he could not realign past and present through the constant he would die like Malinawski)

    lost chika 78: you said that you thought that Daniel is like Des. I disagree. I think Daniel knows how to helo Des as he has been studying that stuff (so he gave Des the instructions on how to realign past with present and overcome the side-effect), Daniel doe snot have the side effect, but he knows about it and therefore writes himself a note we see at the end (in case he expereinces the same side effect)

    Hammer 114: agreed. And this is not ‘trime travelling’ as such, it is more like a ‘time disorder’ side-effect: they cannot control when they gonna go and they’ll die if they do not figure out a way to realign past and present.

    skweez 137: significance of Des being Daneil’s constant is that a) Des has been through the side effect and daniel sucessfully helped him to realign past and present and overcome it so Des knows what side effect is and expereinced how it can be overcome b) Daniel is aware that he may expereince the same side effect too (he was exposed in the past through his work to radiation) and he knows that Des will be the best constant for him in case side eefects happen

    Hurley 159 & 162: agreed

    i thought that the episode supports the assumption that there is some kind of difference in the way time passes (it took heli a lot longer to get to the boat than island time expectations)

    there is gonna be a lot me of ‘competing loyalties’ ahead: Ben got his man on the boat, Frank seems willing to help Sayid, i think Malinowski was helping Sayid and Des, Sayid will join forces with Ben, in the preview we see that Locke and Ben will have ‘we have common enemies’ talk – alliance talk perhaps. I expect a lot more to be revealved about who is really in whose camp…

  238. rdizzle says:

    [quote comment="189264"]Oceanic flight 815 crashed and the passengers are all dead. Their consciousnesses, however, are somehow trapped in the time warp that is associated with this Island.[/quote]

    I’m starting to believe this theory…

  239. nakira says:

    Omg best episode ever! I love how the writers timed it to Christmas Eve, like the episode was a big present for us loyal viewers.

    mlc – Yes, I do think that is why Des ended up in the guard’s prison for going awol to see Faraday at Oxford

    DocH- The cards do seem to be a way to test Faraday’s memory or status or mental functioning. I was also thinking it may be a way for the tots to check the effects of making it to the island somehow.

    Freckles & adriennez- It did seem strange that Widmore left the water running. I think for some reason it was on purpose to make Des go forward/backward in time subconsciously.

    I think Widmore knows alot about the island and seems to be very close to making connections via the journal. Why would Widmore give Penny’s address away unless he thinks Penny would reject Des, and thereby ending their relationship. Maybe Des and Widmore will come face to face (past Dec. 24 2004) and Widmore too will travel in time subconsciously.

    I totally dig this form of time travel. Although it does remind me of movies like “Somewhere in Time” it also reflects people’s cognitive functioning. Like people with advanced Alzheimers think its 1942 and there in a nightclub when they are really in an assisted living center’s locked unit. You can’t convince them otherwise about the date and if you do they get really upset and cry or yell. Also there have been cases where brain surgery was being performed and people’s memories became vivid when a neurostimilator instrument touched a part of the brain.

    Charlotte is not a nice person. I hope she gets whats coming to her like Ben did.

    Also this episode makes me think what happened with the explosion where Des was exposed to the radiation. The whole sky lit up and it seems almost everyone was exposed. Especially for Locke since he was also close to the radiation. Ecko and Charlie were there but died (too bad) so we don’t know who else was affected. It seems that since Aaron was an infant that same dose of outside exposure would affect him more so than the adults. I hope he’s okay when he gets back to the states.

    Totallyloved the dialogue between Penny and Des, so sweet. We needed something like this since this season’s other episodes haven’t been so fairy-tale-ending like.

  240. macky says:

    [quote comment="188975"]My TV has poor reception and I couldn’t read the Faraday’s note to himself in the last scene. What did it say?[/quote]
    it said ” if something goes wrong desmond is my constant”

  241. DOCH(132): i think that daniel and minkowski are simply listed as guests because they are bigger stars than miles and charlotte.

    miles and charlotte both seem like such smart asses…and i still think miles and ben are in cahoots. esp. after miles said he doesn’t wanna leave and is exactly where he wants to be.

    this ep. was AWESOME, and affirmed a lot of theories we’ve all been sharing. but the only thing that baffles me is whether it’s 12/24/04 with penny.
    i was almost CERTAIN that time was different on the island, as they’ve mentioned before. the difference of the rocket clocks by almost x 10 would mean that 90+ days is really 2.5ish years, explaining how walt could look taller if he got off the island, and explaining how frank didn’t seem wonder why jack would mention the red socks 100 days later. the sox had just one another series in 07. and we KNOW that the bearded jack future flashes take place in 07 because of the date on the newspaper article.

    i can wrap my head around everything else, but is it really 04 in penny land? i can understand if the freighter is on island time; those guys obviously aren’t clued in on whatever the chopper folks know.

    then again, it seems like the freighter folks thought daniel was crazy. he was previously referred to as a head case.

    at first i thought that minkowski was leonard from the crazy house with hurley. even though he’s not, i STILL think there’s a sam toomey connection. sam used the numbers at a carnival to guess the beans in a jar. then later got in the freak accident.
    minkowski mentioned a ferris wheel…(carnival)

    lastly,

  242. Michele says:

    First time blogger…I seem to recall that Ben had a nose bleed either early this season or late in the last season. This may indicate that Ben has the side effects of time travel and why he knows how to manipulate people so well. When the plane crashed, Ben ordered “files” on all passengers meaning that maybe some of the “others” can also time travel. How else would Ben/”others” know such details about the passengers. I also remember from posts past that some thought the writers would somehow incorporate the Tsunami on Dec 25, 2004 into the story. We will see.

  243. nicunurse says:

    BTW, side effects of radiation include memory loss.
    additionally, radiation affects dividing cells which is what a fetus is filled with…the radiation may affect the ability of women to remain pregnant..also affects development of capillaries (hence bleeding).
    Why wouldn’t Dr. Juliette know all this? (oh, maybe she didn’t know that the island was filled with radiation…)
    Don’t know of an injection to counteract radiation effects…

  244. willisbrown says:

    [quote comment="189500"]Oh and I was thinking….regarding pregnant women on the island. We don’t really know why the mothers and babies die, but could it be an affect of the radiation or electromagnetism? They do not travel through the bubble though. But womens hormones whack out when pregnant….could this have something to do with like the rat dying? I remember Claire’s nose bleeding anyway.[/quote]

    in regards to why pregnant women lose their children: a possible theory may be that if island time is slower than non-island time, then babies concieved on the island grow at a slower rate. thus delivering baby at 7 or 8 months perceived time, is really only a month or two island time and the baby is not developed at all. those conceived and/or born off of the island age at a normal pace i.e. ben and aaron. that is also why ben seems to be aging and richard alpert (born on the island), for example, is not.

    just a thought.

  245. Lost Fan says:

    i just skimed the posts so im just puting this out there and sorry if someone already said this but, did anyone notice that there was a blcok rock ship on the island and there was also a block rock diary? and also why did mr. widmore leave the sink running in the bathroom, not a normal thing to do after washing ur hands..

  246. bruno(209): i like the idea of the planted calendar!

    somethings i forgot earlier:
    a lot of things reminded me of “through the looking glass”. minkowski said something about the blinking yellow light/answering the call. my next immediate thought was “IS CHARLIE REALLY DEAD?!?!?” …even though i think he is. but still. i explored the “what if he’s not”/time travel thing, and thought of the greatest hits episode where he helps nadia from getting mugged. she said that no one else stopped, and it’s almost like he knew to go over there…i dunno. maybe that’s a stretch.

    i also thought of mikhail…how what if HE’s the man on the boat. and what if the sonar fence exposed him to something that could make similar things happen to him as des and dan. again..maybe a stretch.

    so what’s up with the cable-cutting?! whoever did that was not only trying to eff with the communication but also make a statement with it. seems like that might be outing yourself if you were trying to lay low.

  247. Tim says:

    Minkowski tell Desmond that he looks a lot older now when Desmond is looking in the mirror.
    Maybe Minkowski realizes that Desmond is time traveling forward in time and thinks he looks a lot older when he looks in the mirror at himself.
    We all assume Desmond is time traveling back in time but maybe he can travel forward as well.
    Maybe when he travels back in time into his 1996 body, his 1996 conscience travels forward at the same time.

    That may explain confusion of the various time travelers during the 2004 timeframe.

  248. jake says:

    [quote comment="189185"]Does this episode explain some of the Oceanic Six? When the hatch explosion occurred, there were serveral who were off the beach away from the radiation, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley – held hostage by the Others. I believe Sayid, Jin and Sun were on Desmond’s boat trying to reach Jack and crew. Perhaps it was not safe for the ones who were on the beach in the vincinity of the hatch to be rescued since they were potentially exposed to radiation and it would not be safe to return given what Desmond experienced and probably all of them would not have a constant. Aaron can return because he doesn’t have any memories of the past but he’s not part of the six.[/quote]

    I really like this possibility… especially since I have a feeling Sawyer isn’t gonna make it. That leaves 6 plus Aaron and it works out nicely.
    Des can survive and not be part of the 6 since he wasn’t on the plane…

  249. adriennez says:

    Not only do the mothers lose their babies but the mothers actually die.

  250. maria says:

    and also why did mr. widmore leave the sink running in the bathroom, not a normal thing to do after washing ur hands..

    I think the water running was just for effect, to show the time-lapse with desmond jumping from that time to the future/present. leaving the tap running showed how quickly he came in and out of consciousness, and how much time went by between “leaps.”

    i really dug the concept of time travel as a conscious thing, not a physical thing. i thought desmond finding daniel in the past was a little marty mcfly/doc brown, but in a good way. gotta love sci-fi and how anything is possible. i just hope the time-travel concept doesn’t stray too far from all the other key questions we need answered about this show, like why the plane crash? why these people? why have the others? how did ben get so powerful? and how are they all connected?
    love live lost!!

  251. adriennez says:

    Lost Fan…I said this up in Post 214…I think it was really weird too…who just leaves the sink running. Maybe Widmore knew it would somehow affect Des?

  252. Tasker says:

    This episode? Vonnegut. Slaughterhouse-Five?

  253. Tasha says:

    Okay this is off the subject a little bit. But Rose had Cancer and decided to go off of radiation. TH eplane could not have possible taken that coordinate onto the island…or could it….or does it not matter since there was a bubble when the hatch was still there?

    Anyhow, could this be the reason why she is healed? Those who have been exposed to radiation have wierd side effects. I really doubt that NOBODY else on the plane was not exposed. Maybe Locke was with him being paralyzed? Jack was a dr, he must have been exposed to radiation at some point….. Maybe why he has hallucinations?

    OMG! MY MIND IS FRIED!

  254. Tasha says:

    So fried I just realized all the typos I had in my comment…hope everyone gets what I was TRYING to say!

  255. Evan says:

    sorry to say, but that is not ben in the auction room, get a better set of peepers

  256. lost chicka says:

    this episode, the economist, and confirmed dead are all among the BEST episodes of lost EVER!!!

    mike (183): good idea, but i think the only way you can get what des & minkoski got if you leave the island. but then that doesn’t make sense if daniel has it, so i guess you could be right. i love the idea, but i think they had that thing they gave claire

    freckles (186): i thought she was in her apartment too. was desmond in the apartment in flashes before your eyes too????

    tasha (230): possibly bcuz she’s been calling them constantly according to george.

    i looked at the screen caps on dark ufo. there’s no ben, naomi, anna lucia, charlie, or mrs. hawkings there.

    everybody seems to tell daniel to stay quiet – miles, frank, charlotte – why? bcuz he’s got whatever issue? daniel seems like an important character more & more each week. oh, and you should look at the screencaps of daniel’s book it’s very interesting.

    so which is better bonzo or lost????? hmmmm….

  257. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189540"]sorry to say, but that is not ben in the auction room, get a better set of peepers[/quote]
    LOL! Agreed. and it’s not mrs. Hawkings either.

  258. Erin says:

    “I refuse to acknowledge the idea that Sawyer dies because he is my biggest person-who-doesn’t-really-exist crush.”

    Mine too! I love him. Named my baby after him! (seriously…) :~)

  259. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189196"]Nice to see a lot of familiar names around here! (Hammer, DocH, lostchika, Toeknee, Tasha)
    I’m forcing myself to stay away from all LOST online content… but I couldn’t resist tonight.
    [/quote]
    Hey FMGreenSteve – we miss seeing you around here, but glad to see you’re enjoying this season as much as the rest of us!
    ___________________________________________
    [quote comment="189197"]
    Side note: Hammer where is “Bedtime for Bonzo” from? My mom used to say it to me all the time & I’ve never asked what it was from…
    [/quote]
    Hmmm, this comment sure made me feel old
    _____________________________________________
    [quote comment="189220"]
    but didnt he write. “if anything goes wrong desmond, hume is my constant.”[/quote]
    There was no comma between desmond and hume.

  260. Tim says:

    So all we have to realize is that when Daniel or Desmond go back in time, their consciousness from the time they go back to actually goes forward to the current time.
    Their consciousnesses actually switch times.
    Therefore he is confused when he is on the helicopter and freighter because his consciousness changes from current 2004 to 1996 and he doesn’t realize what is happening.
    When Daniel starts crying after seeing the wreck of the Oceanic 815 a few episodes ago, his body was being inhabited by his consciousness from a time that he was aware of some connection to that flight.

  261. Joel says:

    I can’t believe I read the whole thing! Keep coming with the good thoughts. I was most interested in the auction of the journal from the Black Rock. It probably contains more writing about someone who traveled like Desmond and Faraday. Once Widmore reads it, this leads him to exploit the island.

    Best line: Sayid, in response to the questions about if he can fix the communications room: “I’ll need a minute.”
    Second best line? Anyone?

  262. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189202"]I am new to the posts here but love everyone’s theories about what the heck is going on! I would like someone to clarify for me what the journal Mr. Widmore bid on is all about – I missed that.

    Thanks![/quote]
    It goes something like this….

    The journal belonged to one of the crew members, named Hanso, on The Black Rock, the slave trading ship from the 1800’s that is currently located in the middle of the island. The auctioneer said that the Black Rock was lost at sea so apparently noone knew what happened to it. The Hanso that wrote the journal is an ancestor to Alvar Hanso, of the Hanso Corporation, which sponsored the Dharma Initiative. The journal somehow appeared in or near Madagascar, and was being auctioned off. I’m sure a better explanation could be found at Lostpedia.com.

  263. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189544"]“I refuse to acknowledge the idea that Sawyer dies because he is my biggest person-who-doesn’t-really-exist crush.”

    Mine too! I love him. Named my baby after him! (seriously…) :~)[/quote]

    **Attention Lostblog associates, we have a Sawyer Stalker in aisle 259. Please approach with care***

  264. Erin says:

    If Widmore was willing to pay over 300,000 pounds for the journal, he must have had a very good idea that its contents were important. He probably got all sorts of inside knowledge of the island from reading it…

    Why do you think he gave Des Penny’s address? Seemed unlike him. Unless he really thought Pen was over him and wouldn’t see him, and that might make Des give up on her?

  265. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189548"]I can’t believe I read the whole thing! Keep coming with the good thoughts. I was most interested in the auction of the journal from the Black Rock. It probably contains more writing about someone who traveled like Desmond and Faraday. Once Widmore reads it, this leads him to exploit the island.

    Best line: Sayid, in response to the questions about if he can fix the communications room: “I’ll need a minute.”
    Second best line? Anyone?[/quote]

    Lol, I felt a missing line was when Sayid (with gun in waist) asks Frank for the phone and Frank asks for the gun. I believe Sayid should have stated, “Perhaps you misunderstood me, GIVE me the phone.” *flashes gun*

  266. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189099"]did you catch widmore telling des after he gave des penny’s address “here .. go see her so she can tell you herself” what? that he’s behind the time travel? that she’s married? (she was wearing a gold band on her right hand … but many europeans wear wedding bands on the right hand) did you see all the gifts in the background?
    michael is not on the boat … the man in the tower was walt — in future-grown up- now he’s charge[/quote]
    Earlier in the conversation, Mr. Widmore told Desmond something like Penny hates him. So the “she can tell you herself” was in reference to that.

  267. Erin says:

    If I’m a Sawyer stalker, might as well make the aisle number something more relevant… #23 or 42, for example!

    I’m not a stalker. I just love that character and think Sawyer is a cool name. Suits my little guy (though let’s hope he grows up to be less messed up than our Lostie Sawyer!)
    [quote comment="189550"][quote comment="189544"]“I refuse to acknowledge the idea that Sawyer dies because he is my biggest person-who-doesn’t-really-exist crush.”

    Mine too! I love him. Named my baby after him! (seriously…) :~)[/quote]

    **Attention Lostblog associates, we have a Sawyer Stalker in aisle 259. Please approach with care***[/quote]

  268. Erin says:

    Actually, when I was at the health unit to get baby Sawyer’s immunizations, met a couple there who’d named their baby Desmond… So, I’m not the only one!

  269. drea says:

    [quote comment="189503"]Omg best episode ever! I love how the writers timed it to Christmas Eve, like the episode was a big present for us loyal viewers.

    mlc – Yes, I do think that is why Des ended up in the guard’s prison for going awol to see Faraday at Oxford

    DocH- The cards do seem to be a way to test Faraday’s memory or status or mental functioning. I was also thinking it may be a way for the tots to check the effects of making it to the island somehow.

    Freckles & adriennez- It did seem strange that Widmore left the water running. I think for some reason it was on purpose to make Des go forward/backward in time subconsciously.

    I think Widmore knows alot about the island and seems to be very close to making connections via the journal. Why would Widmore give Penny’s address away unless he thinks Penny would reject Des, and thereby ending their relationship. Maybe Des and Widmore will come face to face (past Dec. 24 2004) and Widmore too will travel in time subconsciously.

    I totally dig this form of time travel. Although it does remind me of movies like “Somewhere in Time” it also reflects people’s cognitive functioning. Like people with advanced Alzheimers think its 1942 and there in a nightclub when they are really in an assisted living center’s locked unit. You can’t convince them otherwise about the date and if you do they get really upset and cry or yell. Also there have been cases where brain surgery was being performed and people’s memories became vivid when a neurostimilator instrument touched a part of the brain.

    Charlotte is not a nice person. I hope she gets whats coming to her like Ben did.

    Also this episode makes me think what happened with the explosion where Des was exposed to the radiation. The whole sky lit up and it seems almost everyone was exposed. Especially for Locke since he was also close to the radiation. Ecko and Charlie were there but died (too bad) so we don’t know who else was affected. It seems that since Aaron was an infant that same dose of outside exposure would affect him more so than the adults. I hope he’s okay when he gets back to the states.

    Totallyloved the dialogue between Penny and Des, so sweet. We needed something like this since this season’s other episodes haven’t been so fairy-tale-ending like.

    just to add on to what was said about Aaron’s radiation exposure-I believe he has been affected by either the hatch implosion or time travelly thing, and while this may have never shown up had he stayed on the island-it shows up when he leaves with Kate, in the form of Down syndrome or something similar. The older, 3? year old Aaron looked abnormal as Kate picks him up out of bed, and maybe this is why Jack is so adamant about not seeing Aaron. He can’t stand to see how little Aaron has been affected by the island.

  270. withoutsee says:

    gosh. the ending with penny and des was just INCREDIBLE. those two make jack and kate look like ……… well, let’s just say i know about eloise.

    easily the best episode ever.

  271. Wish I were lost says:

    Watching the previous ep i believe that Daniel could see the future. We only saw the cards after they were down and then Charlotte says 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. I think its not his memory she is checking, but in the previous two attempts he knew the cards that ne never saw. so maybe he knows what the cards are without ever seeing them, but gets it wrong on the try we see. His exposure to the machine at Oxford gives him some effect of seeing the future, when he goes through the time warp(force field)and possibly he starts mentally time traveling in the coming eps.

    Going through the coordinates doesn’t affect anyone unless they have been near electromagnetic device(Des) or radiation(why ben couldn’t leave the island for chemo, because he knew he would start jumping in his mind to the past).

    If you don’t go directly at those coordiantes then you go through a time warp(mental). Minkowsky and the other guy don’t go through and they start time traveling. The rocket goes through different coordiantes and the time is off on the two clocks. Sayid and the Pilot are fine and time is the same for them.

    Happy for Des and Penny(almost shed a tear).

    Best episode in a while. I would go through the time warp if it allowed me to see next weeks ep sooner, i dont care if i get an anyurism.

  272. 272: i think the cards stuff is DEFINITELY a memory thing and not about predicting them. i also wonder if he’s “seen those cards BEFORE”/been there before.
    lostpedia says this: Back at the beach, Daniel and Charlotte are conducting a memory experiment with DHARMA playing cards. After being timed by Charlotte, Daniel can only remember two of three cards and, contrary to what Charlotte says, he feels he is making no progress.

    i also wonder about his line to jack…paraphrasing: the time you’re fretting about your friends’ arrival is not the same amount of time they’ve been gone.

  273. i mentioned earlier that i think george has a sam toomey connection. sam used the numbers at a carnival, and george was momentarily “on a ferris wheel.”

    anyone?

  274. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189474"][quote comment="189451"]And when he called Penny, it was Xmas eve, right, but nothing to say it was 2004. In his conversation with Penny there is no mention of dates or time.[/quote]

    Hmmm. She did say she had been looking for him for three years. She did see him sometime in 2001, so she might have started when he first went missing on his sailing adventure. Perhaps she started looking on December 24, 2004, when she didn’t get the call she was expecting?

    RGS (#211) The podcasts did talk about it being 2004, but I thought, as usual, D&C were a little guileful in their answer! *g*

    : ) P[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think it’s definitely 2004 in Penny’s time. In that phone call, one of the first things Des said was “You remembered!”, and if it wasn’t 2004 she would have said something in reference to it not being 2004, like “Remembered!? You said you’d call me 3 years ago you lying *$#^*#@”

  275. vavila says:

    [quote comment="189000"]Trying to wrap my head around time travel by conscience only. Walt seems to be able to do it. That explains why he is “taller” when he talks to Locke.

    Is this what Charlie meant when he said “I’m dead, but I’m also here.”?[/quote]

    Hammer, I’m thinking about the point you made about Charlie and how this all relates to JD’s point (146). If Des had 2 timelines and he was expereincing both of them and they were competing (it was hard to say which once is present because he was living both when they occured), so if Charlie somehow during his death got the ‘side-effect’ in such a way that Charlie in the present had died (one timeline) but Charlie in alternative timeline is still somewhat alive (maybe like a ghost). So Charlie’s ghost manifestation is a form the side-effect may take if you had two timelines but died in one of them? maybe the side-effect then inables him, despite his ‘death’, to appear in the world whereas the side-effect kills people who have two active timelines. I know this is confusing, don’t know if i managed to communicate this… what do you guys think? Could this also have something to do with wispers?

  276. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189551"]If Widmore was willing to pay over 300,000 pounds for the journal, he must have had a very good idea that its contents were important. He probably got all sorts of inside knowledge of the island from reading it…

    Why do you think he gave Des Penny’s address? Seemed unlike him. Unless he really thought Pen was over him and wouldn’t see him, and that might make Des give up on her?[/quote]

    That episode put be back on my “red herring” website I mentioned a few weeks ago. Now I have to consider it again. Besides, when I did the WHOIS on it, it said it was created in March 2006, while the specific Hanso page appears to have been created in 2005. It has to be related some kind of way, because some of the names on it we weren’t introduced on the show yet. Of course calling the number gave me a voicemail.

    Anyway I type all that to say, that may be why Widmore was interested in the journal.

  277. desmond’s been on the island 3 years, and penny’s been looking for him for 3 years, but we don’t KNOW that those are the same three years.
    there was definitely 5 years from when she was pissed about him to when he did the boat race. i wonder what would make her change her tune…why she’d even wanna research the island in the first place.

  278. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="189568"]
    I think it’s definitely 2004 in Penny’s time. In that phone call, one of the first things Des said was “You remembered!”, and if it wasn’t 2004 she would have said something in reference to it not being 2004, like “Remembered!? You said you’d call me 3 years ago you lying *$#^*#@”[/quote]

    ROFLOL. I truly laughed out LOUD. You are SO right!

    Admittedly, my memory of past episodes is not as good as I’d like, so I put this out there as a supposition. There have been a number of times where the Losties and the Lockies have been separated and so, for example, most of the Lockies have not seen Daniel or Frank. (Is there a reason for this? Does one of the Lockies KNOW one of them?)

    And in fact, there have been lots of times when the Losties have been divided into two (or more) groups when something significant has happened. We rarely see the Losties discussing what I deem to be important story elements (“Jack, did you SEE the sky turn strange colors and HEAR the high pitched SCREAMING sound?” or “Kate, you wouldn’t believe it but Locke actually BLEW up a submarine and ruined yet ANOTHER chance of getting of this island!” for example).

    I wonder how these separations will play into future episodes and / or answer our questions. It won’t happen EXACTLY the same way, but I expect given how clever the producers are, we will see a sort of “Sixth Sense” twist that will ensure everyone will buy the complete series on DVD so that we can rewatch every episode to see them knowing the “new truth” that will be revealed at the end.

    : ) P

  279. Matt in da hatt says:

    Been a lurker here for about 2 years. Finally have something to add. Charlie was Desmonds constant last season, only he found his constant in the past, when he ran into charlie on the street.

  280. shells says:

    ‘The Constant’ reminded me of some key aspects of Victor Frankl’s ‘Man Search for Meaning.’ One of the major ideas from Frankl was how love can sustain people through anything. In his case it was a concentration camp. Perhaps love is the Constant in “the Constant.” This is what will sustain Des through his time travel.

  281. lostfan says:

    On the whole Charlie thing – if you recall, when the hatch blew up, he was there too, and his hearing was affected. So let’s say he had a touch of what Des had BEFORE his death….but we never saw those scenes. If you’ve ever read “The Time Traveler’s Wife” you’d see a similarity. In the book, the protagonist travels to the past and future…though he dies young – he still manages to visit his wife when she’s very old because he did so before he died. That would mean that Charlie could have visited Hurley at the mental institution (season 4’s opener) before he died because he saw the future and traveled to it. That would explain two things: 1. Why the other guy at the institution was able to see Charlie (meaning, he wasn’t a figure of Hurley’s imagination or a ghost), and it would explain why Charlie said, “I am dead, but I’m here too.” Just a thought.

  282. Tina says:

    [quote comment="189589"]On the whole Charlie thing – if you recall, when the hatch blew up, he was there too, and his hearing was affected. So let’s say he had a touch of what Des had BEFORE his death….but we never saw those scenes. If you’ve ever read “The Time Traveler’s Wife” you’d see a similarity. In the book, the protagonist travels to the past and future…though he dies young – he still manages to visit his wife when she’s very old because he did so before he died. That would mean that Charlie could have visited Hurley at the mental institution (season 4’s opener) before he died because he saw the future and traveled to it. That would explain two things: 1. Why the other guy at the institution was able to see Charlie (meaning, he wasn’t a figure of Hurley’s imagination or a ghost), and it would explain why Charlie said, “I am dead, but I’m here too.” Just a thought.[/quote]
    Excellent observation and point!

  283. Mike L says:

    Some responses to posts above.

    – Radiation that Desmond had was when he turned the key and blew up the hatch.

    – Charlie is dead. Period. He’s not traveling anywhere in time. Whatever Hurley saw, it wasn’t Charlie time warping.

    – Faraday has memory loss because of the radiation he was exposed to when not putting protection over his head when doing his experiments in the past

    – Ben must already have knowledgeable ways to manipulate the islands time travel capability

    – Oceanic 815 crashed on 9/24/2004. Sayid notices the calendar to be 12/24/2004 – exactly 3 months in the real world. On the island it’s day 10_? So there is definitely a time descrepancy.

  284. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189591"]Some responses to posts above.

    – Radiation that Desmond had was when he turned the key and blew up the hatch.

    – Charlie is dead. Period. He’s not traveling anywhere in time. Whatever Hurley saw, it wasn’t Charlie time warping.

    – Faraday has memory loss because of the radiation he was exposed to when not putting protection over his head when doing his experiments in the past

    – Ben must already have knowledgeable ways to manipulate the islands time travel capability

    – Oceanic 815 crashed on 9/24/2004. Sayid notices the calendar to be 12/24/2004 – exactly 3 months in the real world. On the island it’s day 10_? So there is definitely a time descrepancy.[/quote]
    On the island it’s day 94. Oceanic 815 crashed on 9/22. Based on that, there’s no discrepancy.

  285. jophelias says:

    So is everyone on the island time travelling? If everyone on the island is time travelling and trying to find a constant to keep them alive, that would explain many of the characters’ connections to each other in the past for example Jack and Desmond meeting on the stadium stairs. Although now we don’t know whether the “flashbacks” are really flashbacks or flashforwards.

    Jack can walk now, but couldn’t walk in his “flashbacks.” It would make more sense that those “flashbacks” were really flashforwards to when he’s no longer able to walk. Just a thought.

  286. lostinboston says:

    any four word phase
    Comment 192, posted 10 hours, 6 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    got one:

    bp3.blogger.com/_pG1kU-zfuxM/R…

    the woman on the left, short white hair, looks like isabel (the other) http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Isabel

    yes?

  287. jophelias says:

    Is the Dharma Initiative a time travel experiment lead by Daniel Faraday?

  288. lostlaur* says:

    [quote comment="189502"][quote comment="189264"]Oceanic flight 815 crashed and the passengers are all dead. Their consciousnesses, however, are somehow trapped in the time warp that is associated with this Island.[/quote]

    I’m starting to believe this theory…[/quote]

    I don’t know if I agree that this is possible- whenever Desmond was traveling he was limited to where his physical body was located. When he mind-traveled to the freighter from the staircase for example he blacked out and his body stayed right where he was on the staircase. He always ended up back on the freighter wherever he was last- he obviously couldn’t function in both bodies at the same time. Daniel said he zoned out and had to carry him to the chair- the mind would not be capable of controlling the bodies in both places. So if they were dead and under the water, their mind would have to go back to the dead body eventually and they would never have actually BEEN on the island to see what it looked like or run around eating papayas and stuff.

    Also- 2 things I noticed & don’t really get:
    1. When Widmore weirdly (or rudely) left the faucet running doesn’t Desmond actually turn it off before he passes out? And then he wakes up and it’s been running for a long time?

    2. If you watch the calendar part again there are random weeks that are left un-xed. It just looked really weird to me- I’m crap at finding screencaps did anyone else notice?

    Also- in regards to if Daniel started feeling any effects BEFORE the island, I can’t stop wondering why exactly the others pushed him out of the helicopter first. It didn’t seem like he wanted them to do it & he definitely didn’t seem ready. He’s the least cohesive part of the group to me. Frank doesn’t really care for Miles & Miles is willing to shove Charlotte under the bus for 3.2 million it seems but they all treat Dan like he’s crazy & needs to have his mouth taped shut.

    And I’m going to have to have a talk with my mom about the whole “goodnight monkey” haha…

  289. Johnny_Lost says:

    Im a throw this out there…………..

    What if Charlie contacts Penny and tells her about desmond????????????

    any one

  290. Eric says:

    Last night’s episode was such a tremendous payoff. I’ve long thought Desmond was central to the story. Below is a post from 16 months ago…the “eternal now” concept makes so much sense. I’m not so sure Desmond is out of peril, though I think in the end the series will wrap with either their reunion, or with Desmond Hume giving up his life heroically to save many others.

    Eric
    Comment 101, posted 1 year, 4 months ago – Quote and reply
    They are stuck in an eternal now. An electromagnetic tear in timespace.

    Desmond didn’t crash the plane, his slip up moved them through the fold. Desmond’s lady has waited for this “signature” to find her one love.

    Walt has some mastery over this. He was there before and appeared to the Others.

    The mishap at the Swan with Locke…something else has come through now too.

    A little heavy reading on elctromagnetism and the eternal now:

    How finely can we divide our little 3-second lives? The shortest perceivable time division – sensory psychologists call it the fusion threshold – is between 2 and 30 milliseconds (ms) depending on sensory modality. Two sounds seem to fuse into one acoustic sensation if they are separated by less than 2 to 5 milliseconds. Two successive touches merge if they occur within about 10 milliseconds of one another, while flashes of light blur together if they are separated by less than about 20 to 30 milliseconds.6

  291. vavila says:

    Matt 280: interesting, need to refresh my memory, but Charlie and Des definately were close. Very interesting

    lostfan 282: didn’t read that book but i think there’s soemthing to the ‘time travel’ & Charlie, which is connected to side-effects

    also, mrs hawkins tells Desmond that he’s not supposed to buy they ring, he’ll not propose to penny (why she’s mad at him), he will enter the contest and will end up on the island pushing buttons for 3 years, or else ‘all of us will be dead’ (who is she representing – the wisperers?). So she like Charlie i’d say can appear where needed to aide future developments.

    This makes me belive that there are two forms of ‘time travel’ (don’t really like this term):
    1) Desmond in the last episode – lives in two timelines, which compete, and will cause death unless they are realigned (once gain more like a time disorder than voluntary time travel)
    2) ability to materialize where needed to aid future developments like Charlie and Mrs hawkins (no competing timelines, no deadly consequences to the one who travels/materializes)

    hmmm……

  292. Tina says:

    Toeknee:

    I thought it was day 96 on the island and day 94 on the freighter, Christmas Eve, which would make the island roughly 2 days ahead.

  293. vavila says:

    [quote comment="189591"]

    – Charlie is dead. Period. He’s not traveling anywhere in time. Whatever Hurley saw, it wasn’t Charlie time warping.

    [/quote]

    don’t know if i explained my point clearly, i’m not disputign that Charlie died. I am saying that Charlie might of had 2 timelines (not 2 Charlies) and he died in one of them, but the other one still allows him to materialize hence Hugo AND Hugo’s buddy both see Charlie, then Charlie evaporates because he’s dead and can only materialize temporarely (and unlike other dead people Charlie is the one who can materialize due to the side-effect which opened up this ability to materialize) but cannot live like others… so Charlie was there and was dead…

  294. RGS says:

    lostlaur 289. All the days are X’d but 4 days in October are done with a highlighter type marker, or just plain yellow so it doesn’t readily show up. Can’t make anything out of the randomness of the other X colors.

  295. Tina says:

    Matt in da Hatt: Excellent point about Charlie being Desmond’s constant earlier in the season! IT makes sense in relationship to the constant needed to exist in some form in both times.

  296. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189606"][quote comment="189591"]

    – Charlie is dead. Period. He’s not traveling anywhere in time. Whatever Hurley saw, it wasn’t Charlie time warping.

    [/quote]

    don’t know if i explained my point clearly, i’m not disputign that Charlie died. I am saying that Charlie might of had 2 timelines (not 2 Charlies) and he died in one of them, but the other one still allows him to materialize hence Hugo AND Hugo’s buddy both see Charlie, then Charlie evaporates because he’s dead and can only materialize temporarely (and unlike other dead people Charlie is the one who can materialize due to the side-effect which opened up this ability to materialize) but cannot live like others… so Charlie was there and was dead…[/quote]

    But if everyone on the island is time travelling, Charlie may have been time travelling before he “died” and therefore was able to jump to the future to talk to Hurley.

    Also, just thinking about Walt’s appearances on the island after he was taken away by the guys on the boat, he may have been getting too good at time travelling or something, he was always really wise for his age, so maybe they took him out of the experiment because maybe he was getting to close to being able to change the future? thoughts?

    Were the guys on the boat who took Walt away the same guys who are on the ship right now with Des and Sayid?

  297. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189535"]
    This episode? Vonnegut. Slaughterhouse-Five?
    [/quote]
    Nice catch!
    SH5 = a man who has come “unstuck in time,” without any forewarning, finds himself suddenly transported to other points in time in his own past or future. …themes include the dangers of unchecked technology, the limitations of human action in a seemingly random and meaningless universe, and the need for people, adrift in an indifferent world, to treat one another with kindness and decency.
    [quote comment="189500"]
    I remember Claire’s nose bleeding anyway.[/quote]
    [quote comment="189509"]
    I seem to recall that Ben had a nose bleed[/quote]
    I guess the “nose bleed” is new island “whispers”. Great Clues. Follow the blood drops to the next time distortion “lab rat”.

  298. Tina says:

    [quote comment="189604"]This makes me belive that there are two forms of ‘time travel’ (don’t really like this term):
    1) Desmond in the last episode – lives in two timelines, which compete, and will cause death unless they are realigned (once gain more like a time disorder than voluntary time travel)
    2) ability to materialize where needed to aid future developments like Charlie and Mrs hawkins (no competing timelines, no deadly consequences to the one who travels/materializes)
    [/quote]
    This is where Mrs. Hawkings universal course correction comment makes sense. I agree with you that this is less like time travel and more like a phasic displacement issue. Its almost like Desmond is phasing in and out of current, future, &past time that must be exisiting simultaneously. They all have to be at the same time in order for this to really work.

  299. Hope says:

    Newbie here. But I was trying to remember everything we know about the freight and its occupants:
    1. They want Ben;
    2. They were chosen by the same guy that went to talk to Hurley in the mental hospital;
    3. Naomi had a pic of Des and Penny.
    4. They were forbidden to answer Penny’s calls.
    Does the freight relate somehow to Penny’s father? Perhaps to Ben’s enemies, which Sayid was decimating in the FF?

  300. Tina says:

    DocH: Billy Pilgrim, name of Desmond’s army mate.

  301. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189605"]Toeknee:

    I thought it was day 96 on the island and day 94 on the freighter, Christmas Eve, which would make the island roughly 2 days ahead.[/quote]
    I was going by the pop-up info in last night’s Eggtown episode, which said that episode was occuring on day 93. I believe once the copter reaches the freighter it’s the next day, or day 94.

  302. SuzySchool says:

    I was thinking that when Sayid got the communications fixed…he would have called some military backup..from somewhere (not Republican Guard) but somebody to come help..not just hand the phone over to Des to talk to his LOST girlfriend.

    But I loved this episode…so cool to see the link between Hanso and Widmore. To see what is going on with Faraday and the time travel thing. I don’t think that is the only way into / off the island. I don’t know how the time travel really plays into the island’s powers other than it is time travel. But I believe it is obvious those people are really there and got there from a plane crash, submarine, etc.

    GREAT episode!

  303. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189623"]DocH: Billy Pilgrim, name of Desmond’s army mate.[/quote]

    Really? Good call Task.

  304. vavila says:

    [quote comment="189613"][quote comment="189606"][quote comment="189591"]

    – Charlie is dead. Period. He’s not traveling anywhere in time. Whatever Hurley saw, it wasn’t Charlie time warping.

    [/quote]

    don’t know if i explained my point clearly, i’m not disputign that Charlie died. I am saying that Charlie might of had 2 timelines (not 2 Charlies) and he died in one of them, but the other one still allows him to materialize hence Hugo AND Hugo’s buddy both see Charlie, then Charlie evaporates because he’s dead and can only materialize temporarely (and unlike other dead people Charlie is the one who can materialize due to the side-effect which opened up this ability to materialize) but cannot live like others… so Charlie was there and was dead…[/quote]

    But if everyone on the island is time travelling, Charlie may have been time travelling before he “died” and therefore was able to jump to the future to talk to Hurley.

    Also, just thinking about Walt’s appearances on the island after he was taken away by the guys on the boat, he may have been getting too good at time travelling or something, he was always really wise for his age, so maybe they took him out of the experiment because maybe he was getting to close to being able to change the future? thoughts?

    [/quote]


    i personally do not think everyone on the island is time travelling, i do belive as is discussed in earlier posts by others that ‘time travelling’ is due to radiation exposure coupled with deviation from the pathway, which causes ‘side-effects’ (so i don’t know if anyone really time travells on the island)

    i think that walt was a person of interest because of his special abilities – didn’t walt (before the island) caused a bird to crash into a window to get his stepfather’s attention?

  305. nicunurse says:

    [quote comment="189610"]Matt in da Hatt: Excellent point about Charlie being Desmond’s constant earlier in the season! IT makes sense in relationship to the constant needed to exist in some form in both times.[/quote]
    But what if, actually, Desmond is CHARLIE”S constant….perhaps Desmond had some significance to Charlie that we don’t know about yet (in past time) so that he could be the constant in Island time.

    I’m starting to believe this theory…[/quote]

    1. When Widmore weirdly (or rudely) left the faucet running doesn’t Desmond actually turn it off before he passes out? And then he wakes up and it’s been running for a long time?

    2. If you watch the calendar part again there are random weeks that are left un-xed. It just looked really weird to me- I’m crap at finding screencaps did anyone else notice?

    I rewatched the episode…Whitmore never actually turns off the water…he reaches to and then we have the flashforward.

    Even if those weeks are x-ed in a different color…what does that mean? Were they in port or was it a different crew? Must be some significanc…

  306. nicunurse says:

    Sorry about above…coudn’t quote and reply twice…sure you have noticed that part of my comments were from lostlaur* comment 289

  307. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="189623"]DocH: Billy Pilgrim, name of Desmond’s army mate.[/quote]
    Haha.

  308. Alex says:

    I have thought all along that this entire show is about Des. The characters are all created from Des’s mind. Again, this show is all about Des.

  309. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189609"]
    lostlaur 289. All the days are X’d but 4 days in October are done with a highlighter type marker, or just plain yellow so it doesn’t readily show up. Can’t make anything out of the randomness of the other X colors.
    [/quote]
    I checked lost.wikia and here is what their timeline for the “yellow highlighter” days.
    ——————————–
    October 27, 2004 – Day 36
    “Numbers” – Hurley heads out into the jungle to find Rousseau, and is followed by Jack, Charlie and Sayid. Claire and Locke begin building an object. Hurley encounters Rousseau in the jungle and asks her about the numbers only to discover she wasn’t aware of their power, he retrieves a battery from her and reunites with his camp. Claire reveals that it is her birthday, and Locke reveals that the object they were building was a cradle for her child.
    ——————————–
    October 28/29, 2004 – Day 37/38
    Occurred Off-Screen
    The events of this day have either not yet been revealed, or occurred off-screen due to either plot points yet to be revealed, or the fact that there were no relevant happenings.
    ——————————–
    October 30, 2004 – Day 39
    “Deus Ex Machina” – Locke and Boone construct a trebuchet to break the glass on the door of the hatch, but it fails. A piece of metal that shattered off became lodged in Locke’s leg, and he hadn’t noticed until Boone pointed it out. Later that night, Locke pokes himself with a safety pin and uses a torch on his foot and realizes he has no feeling in his legs.
    ________________
    It is all pre-Des pre-hatch battle.
    Maybe those two middle days are reserved for some freighter shenanigans 7 flashes.

  310. jophelias says:

    I disagr[quote comment="189632"]I have thought all along that this entire show is about Des. The characters are all created from Des’s mind. Again, this show is all about Des.[/quote]

    I think the show is entirely about Desmond and Faraday.

  311. Tina says:

    nicunurse: i don’t know about the reverse, but maybe. If radiation is the key to this, Charlie definitely experienced some of it when the hatch imploded.

  312. Alex says:

    Does anyone remember that the conversation that Desmond has with Penny at the end of the show was actually a conversation that they had in a prior episode? My wife said that she rememberd Penny and Des having the same conversation in a prior show. Thoughts?

  313. LostJen says:

    The doctor on the boat didn’t just say “was your friend (Desmond) exposed to radiation” he also asked if he was exposed to high levels of electromagnitism recently.

    If you remember, in Season II, Des told some of the Lost survivors that he thinks he caused their plane to crrash because of him letting the countdown in the hatch go so long before he turned the key, causing an overwhelming electromagnetic field that reaped havoc with flight 815 instruments, causing it to crash (94 days ago – Des exposed to strong electromagnetic field).

    Then when Locke didn’t press the button at all in the hatch, causing that huge surge of electromagnetic energy (Desmond again, this time being thrown from the hatch when it blew up), it was after then that Des started to see the future where Charlie would die, and kept trying to prevent it from happening.

  314. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189639"]Does anyone remember that the conversation that Desmond has with Penny at the end of the show was actually a conversation that they had in a prior episode? My wife said that she rememberd Penny and Des having the same conversation in a prior show. Thoughts?[/quote]

    No I don’t remember that. Maybe your wife has been doing some time travelling of her own :)

  315. Alex says:

    [quote comment="189634"]I disagr[quote comment="189632"]I have thought all along that this entire show is about Des. The characters are all created from Des’s mind. Again, this show is all about Des.[/quote]

    I think the show is entirely about Desmond and Faraday.[/quote]

    You are prob right. But who are all of the other characters? Are they in a different dimension or are they figments of Des and Daniels imagination?

  316. Miraks says:

    IMO we need to stop calling what is happening time travel which implies a physical ability to go between different times. This is not what is happening. What does seem to be happening is that the conscience can go back to any point where the person was (or will be?) with the knowledge the person has currently. Then, when the conscience jumps back to the present, there is a “new” past that the person has from that point on.Really hard to explain this.
    An example, Daniel found that comment about Dez being his constant in his journal at the end of the episode (after Dez’s conscience went back). If he had looked through his journal in the beginning of the episode, it would not have been there, because Dez had not gone to him yet.

  317. Alex says:

    [quote comment="189641"][quote comment="189639"]Does anyone remember that the conversation that Desmond has with Penny at the end of the show was actually a conversation that they had in a prior episode? My wife said that she rememberd Penny and Des having the same conversation in a prior show. Thoughts?[/quote]

    No I don’t remember that. Maybe your wife has been doing some time travelling of her own :)[/quote]

    LOL. Very funny. Had to text the wife to tell her what you said. However, a few people in my office do recall that conversation. Either way, when this is all done, I think we are all going to have to watch all of the episodes again. Damn this show is insane

  318. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="189449"][quote comment="189265"][quote comment="189231"][quote comment="189215"]However, the way the scene was played by the actor it appeared he didn’t until he came across the note in his journal – which would be inconsistent with Penny’s behavior over the phone – unless this memory was somehow wiped.[/quote]

    Well this may be why we see Daniel “practicing” his memory with Charlotte. Maybe they gave him a history of forgetting stuff to explain why he doesn’t remember meeting Desmond in 1996.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Again, the Daniel we saw before the last scene of this episode HAD NOT met Des. Only the Daniel we see at the very end HAD met Des. So, it would be impossible for him to have remembered or forgot Des when he first arrived on the island because that interaction hadn’t happened yet. It appears time is not a continuous line in Lost and that moments in time can be altered by other moments in time. There is no fatalism here – the future can be changed.[/quote]

    I’m not so sure that your conclusion is accurate, that the future can be changed. Daniel had to have met Desmond, in order to record in his notebook that Desmond is his Constant.

    If you buy into the future can not be changed then it does not matter how they interacted prior to Desmond getting on the heli. If future can not be changed, Faraday will figure out that his radiation exposure machine will work eventually, whether in 1996 Desmond tells him or not.

    As it stands he thinks that Desmond is the key to him understanding how his radiation machine worked, so Desmond became important to him, and at some point after their encounter he realized that Desmond should be his Constant.[/quote]

    I agree with Hurley. I think his explaination is a pretty good one. I kinda think Daniel used Desmond so that he would become his constant. He obviously has more knowledge of what’s going on with the “bubble” than any of the Losties. There was really no other reason I can think of for Daniel to tell him to find his past self. He told Desomnd those numbers so that the past Daniel would listen to him. And that solved his equation. The fact that he had the answer to the equation and the experiment in the present shows that Desmond and Daniel were successful in meeting in 1996. And when Daniel was looking in the notebook at the end and saw his note, he remembered meeting Desmond in the past. It all came back to him then…

    And don’t throw rocks at me but this epi wasn’t one of my favs. It reminded me of the epi when Nikki and Paolo died. It almost felt like a self-contained episode. Don’t get me wrong, I did enjoy it. And I do know things will come up again and it did bring up the time issues. I don’t know…

  319. lostfan says:

    If we go with the theory that lots of people are time traveling, then it would make sense that “taller Walt” visited Locke to tell him what he needed to do when he was shot. It would be Walt visiting from the future. It would also give the Charlie scene some credence, and would also explain other oddities – like Jack’s father showing up on the island, polar bears coming from maybe the ice age and even way back in Season 2 – when suddenly Libby was in a Hurley flashback when she wasn’t in there to begin with. We could find a lot more examples if we tried.

  320. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189643"]IMO we need to stop calling what is happening time travel which implies a physical ability to go between different times. This is not what is happening. What does seem to be happening is that the conscience can go back to any point where the person was (or will be?) with the knowledge the person has currently. Then, when the conscience jumps back to the present, there is a “new” past that the person has from that point on.Really hard to explain this.
    An example, Daniel found that comment about Dez being his constant in his journal at the end of the episode (after Dez’s conscience went back). If he had looked through his journal in the beginning of the episode, it would not have been there, because Dez had not gone to him yet.[/quote]

    Have you seen the documentary “What the Bleep Do We Know?” It’s all about quantum physics and our perception of reality. Basically talks about how our concept of time being linear (past, present, future) is wrong and that it’s more productive to think about time as cyclical/overlapping. In other words, everything we think has happened in the “past” and that will happen in the “future” is actually happening now we just don’t see it because of our brain’s inability to perceive it.

    So with this in mind, maybe by being exposed to the right amount of radiation and straying from the path or the current dimension is causing the mind to tap into these alternate, overlapping realities. Thus explaining the lack of “physical” time travel.

  321. deangoodes says:

    What happens when the 1996 Desmond eventually becomes 2004 Desmond? Does he head back to 1996 again? and then again? and then again?? That is the very confusing part about time travel; what happens when the past catches up with what was then the future? As Desmond walks away from Penny’s apartment at the end of the scene when she gave him her number, he looks back up at her window and then walks away; presumably back to his life in the British Army. So he goes on with his life as if nothing has happened? How much of the future does Des remember when he comes to in 1996? Does he just remember the flashback, or does he remember everything that he did and thought during the flashback? Somebody please help me with these Time Travel questions….

  322. Alex says:

    [quote comment="189648"]What happens when the 1996 Desmond eventually becomes 2004 Desmond? Does he head back to 1996 again? and then again? and then again?? That is the very confusing part about time travel; what happens when the past catches up with what was then the future? As Desmond walks away from Penny’s apartment at the end of the scene when she gave him her number, he looks back up at her window and then walks away; presumably back to his life in the British Army. So he goes on with his life as if nothing has happened? How much of the future does Des remember when he comes to in 1996? Does he just remember the flashback, or does he remember everything that he did and thought during the flashback? Somebody please help me with these Time Travel questions….[/quote]

    you just confused me more than i was before…thanks. :)

  323. deangoodes says:

    Also I have a comment about the Bubble theory and the fact that the helicopter took 18 hours to fly through it- I don’t see how that could be, Frank said the chopper only had a limited amount of fuel available. I doubt even a chopper full of fuel could fly that long.

  324. Tina says:

    [quote comment="189648"]What happens when the 1996 Desmond eventually becomes 2004 Desmond? Does he head back to 1996 again? and then again? and then again?? That is the very confusing part about time travel; what happens when the past catches up with what was then the future? As Desmond walks away from Penny’s apartment at the end of the scene when she gave him her number, he looks back up at her window and then walks away; presumably back to his life in the British Army. So he goes on with his life as if nothing has happened? How much of the future does Des remember when he comes to in 1996? Does he just remember the flashback, or does he remember everything that he did and thought during the flashback? Somebody please help me with these Time Travel questions….[/quote]
    You’re thinking about linear time, which can’t be the case if any of the what’s happening in the show is to be believed. Time exists in multiplicity and simultaneously. The present and past are happening and simultaneously which is why the consciousness can phase in and out of those periods, notice that the body doesn’t necessarily phase, but simply the mind. As long as time isn’t linear, then you avoid the grandfather paradox, i.e. if a man goes back in time and kills his grandfather, does he kill himself as well? It also works in the idea of the universe course correcting, so that things that “can’t” happen, like you killing your granfather in the past making it impossible for you to be born and travel back to kill him, impossible.

  325. Tina says:

    Oh, one more thing Deangoodes, A result of the pahsing is memory deterioration which is why it appears that Desmond & Daniel can’t remember all the different events and experiences of the time phasing. The mind must be too fragile to allow all that information & experience to exist together so it compartmentalizes or “forgets” in order to avoid imminent implosion which I think is what happened to Minikowski.

  326. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189656"][quote comment="189648"]What happens when the 1996 Desmond eventually becomes 2004 Desmond? Does he head back to 1996 again? and then again? and then again?? That is the very confusing part about time travel; what happens when the past catches up with what was then the future? As Desmond walks away from Penny’s apartment at the end of the scene when she gave him her number, he looks back up at her window and then walks away; presumably back to his life in the British Army. So he goes on with his life as if nothing has happened? How much of the future does Des remember when he comes to in 1996? Does he just remember the flashback, or does he remember everything that he did and thought during the flashback? Somebody please help me with these Time Travel questions….[/quote]
    You’re thinking about linear time, which can’t be the case if any of the what’s happening in the show is to be believed. Time exists in multiplicity and simultaneously. The present and past are happening and simultaneously which is why the consciousness can phase in and out of those periods, notice that the body doesn’t necessarily phase, but simply the mind. As long as time isn’t linear, then you avoid the grandfather paradox, i.e. if a man goes back in time and kills his grandfather, does he kill himself as well? It also works in the idea of the universe course correcting, so that things that “can’t” happen, like you killing your granfather in the past making it impossible for you to be born and travel back to kill him, impossible.[/quote]
    ___________________________

    Exactly. This show is bringing the reality of non-linear time to mainstream thought.

  327. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="189656"][quote comment="189648"]What happens when the 1996 Desmond eventually becomes 2004 Desmond? Does he head back to 1996 again? and then again? and then again?? That is the very confusing part about time travel; what happens when the past catches up with what was then the future? As Desmond walks away from Penny’s apartment at the end of the scene when she gave him her number, he looks back up at her window and then walks away; presumably back to his life in the British Army. So he goes on with his life as if nothing has happened? How much of the future does Des remember when he comes to in 1996? Does he just remember the flashback, or does he remember everything that he did and thought during the flashback? Somebody please help me with these Time Travel questions….[/quote]
    You’re thinking about linear time, which can’t be the case if any of the what’s happening in the show is to be believed. Time exists in multiplicity and simultaneously. The present and past are happening and simultaneously which is why the consciousness can phase in and out of those periods, notice that the body doesn’t necessarily phase, but simply the mind. As long as time isn’t linear, then you avoid the grandfather paradox, i.e. if a man goes back in time and kills his grandfather, does he kill himself as well? It also works in the idea of the universe course correcting, so that things that “can’t” happen, like you killing your granfather in the past making it impossible for you to be born and travel back to kill him, impossible.[/quote]
    ____________________________________

    I agree. Time is not linear in this case. In this sense, there is no 1996 Desmond vs. 2004 Desmond, there is only Desmond. So the Desmond from 96 will not catch up to the Desmond from 2004.

  328. jophelias says:

    It’s time phasing, not time travel that’s happening, right?

  329. you guys are awesome. i keep hitting REFRESH every 5 minutes!

    alex…not sure if we’ve heard the conversation before, but i DID notice that it seemed like the last few lines of their conversation were said in unison.
    like they were both saying the same thing.

  330. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    [quote comment="189658"]Oh, one more thing Deangoodes, A result of the pahsing is memory deterioration which is why it appears that Desmond & Daniel can’t remember all the different events and experiences of the time phasing. The mind must be too fragile to allow all that information & experience to exist together so it compartmentalizes or “forgets” in order to avoid imminent implosion which I think is what happened to Minikowski.[/quote]

    But at the end of the ep Des remembers everything, at least that’s the way I took it. He said hello to Sayid and Sayid asked him if he was allright now. Des said yes. His ‘constant’ helped him make everything right.

    There should be some things we can figure out now since we know this is about time/conscience travel. Jack had Des appear to him in one of his flashbacks. Was that the real Des or the conscience Des? Real Jack or conscience Jack? This is all very confusing. My head is starting to hurt.

  331. imaginary says:

    this episode reminded me of a book called Slaughterhouse Five.

  332. deangoodes says:

    Joel–comment 262–The second best line hast to be when Penny finally answers Des’s call at the end and says something like, “Desmond,…. is it really you?” You could feel the despair of her years of searching for him become a sort of euphoria and a big, dark cloud was lifted off of her shoulders, and off of his too. What a terrific moment that was.

  333. Tina says:

    [quote comment="189663"]It’s time phasing, not time travel that’s happening, right?[/quote]
    That’s what I’m calling it to avoid “travel” because D&C already said there is no time travel in the show, which makes sense if time exists, well, all the time and one just phases in and out of specific instances.

  334. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189672"]this episode reminded me of a book called Slaughterhouse Five.[/quote]

    Yeah, that was mentioned earlier (above). Someone also mentioned that Des’ army mate was named Billy Pilgrim.

  335. UnLocke says:

    In answer to the question of David Hume’s significance, it is worth pointing out that both Hume (Desmond’s last name) and John Locke were philosophers with different takes on the nature of knowledge. While Locke argued that we rely upon reason to determine our knowledge and understanding of our world, Hume pointed out that what we call “reason” is still a product of our passions. Basically, Locke had faith in the ability of human reason, while Hume was considered a skeptic.

    Originally, Locke and Jack were at odds, and I loved the faith vs. reason dichotomy they represented. Once Desmond was introduced to the story, however, I noted his last name immediately. Though we have not seen Locke and Desmond pitted against one another to the same degree, I think their names are entirely too deliberate to overlook. Of course, there was the incident with blowing up the hatch, where Locke and Desmond disagreed over whether or not to stop pushing the button, and this conflict had rather significant results.

    Considering all of the philosophical, scientific, and anthropological issues involved in the show, it is interesting that two of the main characters are named after famous philosophers who attempted to explain their versions of human knowledge and reality. All the while, we viewers continue to analyze the reality of the experiences we see on the show. Who are the “good” guys? Who are the “bad” guys? Upon what grounds can the characters formulate any real knowledge? Their world is a shaky one, just as ours is.

    I certainly hope Desmond is central to the overall plot. I have never been a big fan of Locke. While I sympathize with his tragic past, I have always questioned his dedication to his particular faith in the island and his importance. He has his abilities, but he also has major ego issues. His recent dictatorship with no clear direction only makes me continue to doubt him. I don’t blame Jack for wanting to pull the trigger on him. Locke is motivated by his desire to be important, while I think both Jack and Desmond are motivated by their desire to be honorable men. Of course, their motivations are just as selfish when you begin to break them down. We are all motivated by our particular passions, and our realities are thereby shaped accordingly. I am pretty certain that is David Hume’s stand in the first place.

    As far as Jack’s name is concerned (Shepherd), his biblical significance has already been noted. “He walks among us though he is not one of us.” He is the savior, and I have to admit that I love the ironic spin that the so-called savior later regrets his good deed.

    Jack, Locke, and Desmond are all pivotal characters. If any of them disappear anytime soon, I will be concerned.

  336. Tina says:

    [quote comment="189671"][quote comment="189658"]Oh, one more thing Deangoodes, A result of the pahsing is memory deterioration which is why it appears that Desmond & Daniel can’t remember all the different events and experiences of the time phasing. The mind must be too fragile to allow all that information & experience to exist together so it compartmentalizes or “forgets” in order to avoid imminent implosion which I think is what happened to Minikowski.[/quote]

    But at the end of the ep Des remembers everything, at least that’s the way I took it. He said hello to Sayid and Sayid asked him if he was all right now. Des said yes. His ‘constant’ helped him make everything right.

    There should be some things we can figure out now since we know this is about time/conscience travel. Jack had Des appear to him in one of his flashbacks. Was that the real Des or the conscience Des? Real Jack or conscience Jack? This is all very confusing. My head is starting to hurt.[/quote]
    I’m not sure, you may be right. It seems a bit mushy to me. ;)

  337. deangoodes says:

    Linear time, comments by Miraks and Jophelias–If that is the case they shouldn’t have shown Desmond walking away from Penny’s apartment as if he was going to go on with his life from that point, should they have?

  338. Rachel says:

    I just wanted to say that last nights episode, which I just watched on the website because I missed it, has been my favorite one yet!! Brilliant writing, brilliant story arc, I loved everything about it! I cried during Desmond and Penny’s conversation. I hope that Desmond makes it out of this ordeal and they find each other in the end.

  339. Johnny_Lost says:

    Ok I just noticed something in the Lost eastereggs, a screencap of Eko and Yemi’s photo, Im might be mistaken but I believe that to be the same people in the photos of the house miles was “ghostbusting” at

    Can some one arrange a screencao comparison??????????????????

  340. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189680"]Linear time, comments by Miraks and Jophelias–If that is the case they shouldn’t have shown Desmond walking away from Penny’s apartment as if he was going to go on with his life from that point, should they have?[/quote]

    ____________________

    I’m not sure why Des walking away from Penny is so significant and keeps being brought up. But I may be missing something. We don’t know yet what happens after that, and I’m not convinced that Des suddenly remembered everything after he was able to contact Penny on the phone with Sayid. We’ll have to wait till next week.

  341. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189645"][quote comment="189449"][quote comment="189265"][quote comment="189231"][quote comment="189215"]

    I agree with Hurley. I think his explaination is a pretty good one. I kinda think Daniel used Desmond so that he would become his constant. There was really no other reason I can think of for Daniel to tell him to find his past self. He told Desomnd those numbers so that the past Daniel would listen to him. And that solved his equation. The fact that he had the answer to the equation and the experiment in the present shows that Desmond and Daniel were successful in meeting in 1996. And when Daniel was looking in the notebook at the end and saw his note, he remembered meeting Desmond in the past. It all came back to him then…
    [/quote]

    I think it is one of those which came first the Chicken or the Egg premises. Thing is it appears that the writers are wanting us to believe that the future can not be changed (Ms. Hawking, Daniel 1996 both state it).

    If the 1996 event hadn’t happened yet, the note could not have been in his notebook.

    If you accept that the future can not be changed, then Daniel will figure out how the radiation machine will work (regardless of Dez’s input), and as a matter of fact he HAS figured it out prior to Des getting on the heli. We know he has figured out how his machine will work because he tells Dez the numbers for the equation or whatever.

    So then it kinda poses the paradox, did he figure out the machine (say 2000) because he gave Dez the numbers (in ’04) to give to himself (in ’96)?

    Or alternatively, did he have the numbers to give to dez, to give to himself, because of talking with Dez in 2004?

    To the non-linear time folks, is my account conflicting with that theory, if so I will go sit down somewhere and be sad.

  342. Tina says:

    [quote comment="189680"]Linear time, comments by Miraks and Jophelias–If that is the case they shouldn’t have shown Desmond walking away from Penny’s apartment as if he was going to go on with his life from that point, should they have?[/quote]
    Can you explain that a little more, I mean its hard to portay the pahsing of consciousness in TV land I imagine.

  343. Tina says:

    RGS: I think its both/and. If time is nonlinear then it can be both changed and unchanging. Its all happening together. I think this is what Mrs. Hawking was getting at when she said the universe course corrects. It must course correct if its all happening together because its all already happened, not happened yet and will eventually happen.

  344. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189688"][quote comment="189645"][quote comment="189449"][quote comment="189265"][quote comment="189231"][quote comment="189215"]

    I agree with Hurley. I think his explaination is a pretty good one. I kinda think Daniel used Desmond so that he would become his constant. There was really no other reason I can think of for Daniel to tell him to find his past self. He told Desomnd those numbers so that the past Daniel would listen to him. And that solved his equation. The fact that he had the answer to the equation and the experiment in the present shows that Desmond and Daniel were successful in meeting in 1996. And when Daniel was looking in the notebook at the end and saw his note, he remembered meeting Desmond in the past. It all came back to him then…
    [/quote]

    I think it is one of those which came first the Chicken or the Egg premises. Thing is it appears that the writers are wanting us to believe that the future can not be changed (Ms. Hawking, Daniel 1996 both state it).

    If the 1996 event hadn’t happened yet, the note could not have been in his notebook.

    If you accept that the future can not be changed, then Daniel will figure out how the radiation machine will work (regardless of Dez’s input), and as a matter of fact he HAS figured it out prior to Des getting on the heli. We know he has figured out how his machine will work because he tells Dez the numbers for the equation or whatever.

    So then it kinda poses the paradox, did he figure out the machine (say 2000) because he gave Dez the numbers (in ’04) to give to himself (in ’96)?

    Or alternatively, did he have the numbers to give to dez, to give to himself, because of talking with Dez in 2004?

    To the non-linear time folks, is my account conflicting with that theory, if so I will go sit down somewhere and be sad.[/quote]

    Ok I hope folks know what I’m talking about because I just made the same statement with the timeline. I will now go somewhere and be sad.

  345. johnny_lost: it’s not eko. i posted screen caps in the blog on that episode. there are also some on lostpedia.com

  346. deangoodes says:

    Here’s a thought that hasn’t been addressed yet: There seemed to be a lot of buyers for the Black Rock chronicles at the auction house. Mr Widmore ultimately won the item, but I wonder if any of the other bidders were connected to the island as well??..

  347. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189693"]Here’s a thought that hasn’t been addressed yet: There seemed to be a lot of buyers for the Black Rock chronicles at the auction house. Mr Widmore ultimately won the item, but I wonder if any of the other bidders were connected to the island as well??..[/quote]

    _______________

    Possibly, but I don’t remember recognizing any of their faces and wouldn’t remember them if they were to appear later. The auction was in 1996, right?

  348. Johnny_Lost says:

    shellonius funk
    Comment 346, posted 13 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    johnny_lost: it’s not eko. i posted screen caps in the blog on that episode. there are also some on lostpedia.com

    Thanks Shellonius it was a shot in the dark , I know it was way off topic

  349. froggirl says:

    Wow! Dan has been my fav new character this season since we first met him. I thought that he had forgotten about meeting Desmond because of his memory problem, but talking on the phone to him triggered the memory, and that is why he was going thru is journal at the end.

    About who left the door open for the guys on the ship:

    I had the impression that it was Frank. He seemed very sincere when he told Sayid that he was trying to help, and he had been there minutes before, already breaking protocal by bringing the phone to Desmond. I’m sure he could have left it open on his way out.

    Can someone explain–

    Didn’t Walt and Michael leave the island like a month ago island time? How in the world would they be found and be aboard a ship that arrived days ago?

  350. i don’t know if any of the auction folks were supposed to be significant. i DO think that widmore WANTED to have desmond in the race, and that makes me think of libby:
    she gave him the boat in the cafe, and the whole thing
    had that familiar sayid/elsa/cafe set-up feeling to it.
    i think there’s definitely more of a story with her, but i just wonder if there’s any way she could have actually been on the plane by accident or whatever.

  351. jophelias says:

    interesting observation from a Lost article: the item up for bid after the Black Rock journal was the Charles Dickens book “Our Mutual Friend” which is the same book that Des brings on board his boat and which he claims will be the very last thing that he reads…

  352. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    [quote comment="189464"]I am interested in the previously mentioned “vile vortices” idea. The map on wikipedia show the places on the globe where they are supposedly located and there is one on either side of the continent of Australia, one near Madagascar(where the Black Rock journal that Charles Widmore won in auction was found), one near Antarctica(polar bears), and one near Tunisia(where Charlotte found the polar bear skeleton with the Dharma tag). Very interesting…

    This was an awesome episode. The scene with Des and Penny on the phone was so moving…I love their love story!

    I still do not understand why Charles Widmore hates Des so much…it just seems more than you’re not good enough for my daughter. Did anyone else think it was weird when they were in the bathroom at the auction house and when he was done washing his hands, he left the faucet running…did he know that it would do something to Des?!

    I still stick with my thought from last week that Miles was Ben’s “man on the boat”. Their conversation was not really about extortion but they were talking in code. They both have that ghost whisperer thing going on and maybe got in contact that way, which is why Miles asked Ben if he knew who he was.

    I think maybe there are two different factions on that boat…the scientist guys and Frank(who is there because he feels some kind of responsibility because he was supposed to be the pilot of 815) and the tough guys who I think work for Charles Widmore.

    Great episode![/quote]

    Polar bears don’t live in Antarctica, they live in the arctic (North Pole).

  353. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="189699"]Wow! Dan has been my fav new character this season since we first met him. I thought that he had forgotten about meeting Desmond because of his memory problem, but talking on the phone to him triggered the memory, and that is why he was going thru is journal at the end.
    [/quote]
    I don’t think that he had met Desmond yet in the begining of the episode because Dez had not gone “back” to 96 yet. As I said earlier, I believe that the entry in the journal would only appear after Desmond goes to 96.

    [quote comment="189699"]
    Didn’t Walt and Michael leave the island like a month ago island time? How in the world would they be found and be aboard a ship that arrived days ago?[/quote]

    I’m not sure the boat only arrived days ago. They could have been out there trying to find whatever “portal” leads to the island for longer then that.

  354. jophelias says:

    Could Desmond being quarantined in the hatch have anything to do with the universal cause correction theory…like his power to time phase could somehow change the course of the universe? Or was he just in the hatch hitting the button to keep the magnetic fields (alternate dimensions?) in line so no-one could cross over and get the “sickness”?

    Could the injections the doctor was giving Minkowski on the boat be the same injections that Desmond was taking when he was in the hatch?

    When Desmond began his trip around the world, did he already know about the island from Hildmore?

  355. jophelias says:

    Widmore, not Hildmore

  356. els says:

    remember when ben said he put a pacemaker in the rabit to scare sawyer? and then he died in front of sawyer but later ben showed him the rabbit was alive and well. Maybe the rabit was time traveling?

  357. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189646"]If we go with the theory that lots of people are time traveling, then it would make sense that “taller Walt” visited Locke to tell him what he needed to do when he was shot. It would be Walt visiting from the future. It would also give the Charlie scene some credence, and would also explain other oddities – like Jack’s father showing up on the island, polar bears coming from maybe the ice age and even way back in Season 2 – when suddenly Libby was in a Hurley flashback when she wasn’t in there to begin with. We could find a lot more examples if we tried.[/quote]

    I don’t know if the theory that lots of folks are having their conscience phasing in and out of time. It seems the people have to have a high exposure to radiation or electro-magnetism AND go through the “bubble” to feel the effects the way Des does.

  358. drock says:

    A few thoughts:

    1. To make the confusing time thing even more confusing… The calendar on the freighter boat is correct. It is December 24, 2004.
    Desmond confirms this by calling Penny on the exact day he said he would. According to dialog and people who keep track of such things, it is December 26th on the island. So the island is two days ahead of the freighter. Confusing. However, if time is faster on the island, that may explain why people heal quicker?

    2. By the logic of Daniel wanting Desmond to be his constant couldn’t it have been as easy for Daniel to be Desmonds. After they meet in the past and talk in the present Desmond could consider Daniel a constant, no? He probably could have saved himself the drama of seeing Penny.

    3. Fun Fact: The guy who plays Daniel was in a movie called “The Million Dollar Hotel”. In the movie, he is in love with a woman named Eloise. Eloise was his rat in the episode of Lost. Those writers really think about everything.

  359. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="189711"]A few thoughts:

    1. To make the confusing time thing even more confusing… The calendar on the freighter boat is correct. It is December 24, 2004.
    Desmond confirms this by calling Penny on the exact day he said he would. According to dialog and people who keep track of such things, it is December 26th on the island. So the island is two days ahead of the freighter. Confusing. However, if time is faster on the island, that may explain why people heal quicker?
    [/quote]

    How do you figure it’s the 26th on the island?

  360. Julie says:

    Hey guys… sorry it took me so long to get here! Today is EOM and closing.. and ablgh.. anyways..
    SO.. yea… totally cried my eyes out the last 15min! I actually had friends that called to see if I was crying. I’m such a girl! Ugh!
    Okay… so.. that out of the way. Let me go read some posts and then I’ll give my ideas.

  361. Julie says:

    [quote comment="188995"][quote comment="188976"]If anyone can find the bearing that Ben gave Michael, we can find out if he’s on the boat.[/quote]
    I was just thinking about this. Michael was given 325, Frank was given 305. Who knows where Michael might be? (or when, to quote Hurley)[/quote]

    Wouldn’t the heading change with where they are on the island?

  362. did I cry last night after that phone exchange between penny and des? I may have some serious issues.

    point being I gots da good stuff

    SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT

    penny’s dad is ben’s arch-enemy

    BOOM you’s gots served.

    Think about it. The journal from the wreaked ship. Oxford dudes journal. Its all in the sheets.

  363. did anyone else think of adam & eve lastnight? the writers said that they would be the proof that they had the ending in mind all along.

    i’m starting to think that calendar was in there just to mess with us. it could very well be island time/a way to keep track of the survivors. and it was where they keep the sick/crazies…

  364. Freckles says:

    So…Brotha Desmond joining the monastery, running at the stadium where he bumps into Jack, and taking that photo with Penny…this was all pre-1996?

    Thanks to the previous blogger – I now understand that perhaps the reason why the water was left running was to demonstrate how much time lapsed between Desmond’s blackout.

    To add to the previous post about the eerie music before showing Minkowski – I was really freaking out because it sounded like the music they played when Hurley and Locke went to the cabin. I screamed in those episodes!

    p.s. I loved Sayid’s “Give me a minute” line. I totally laughed out loud.

  365. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189711"]A few thoughts:

    2. By the logic of Daniel wanting Desmond to be his constant couldn’t it have been as easy for Daniel to be Desmonds. After they meet in the past and talk in the present Desmond could consider Daniel a constant, no? He probably could have saved himself the drama of seeing Penny.[/quote]

    Des couldn’t use Daniel as a Constant, he was just getting explained that theory by Daniel in 1996. He then gets the idea to call Penny. If he could easily use Desmond, he’d just sit down and say I’m using you as my constant. Daniel doesn’t mean anything to him at that point.

    Froggirl 350 I do believe Daniel had forgotten about meeting Desmond, due to his radiation exposure (I think nickunurse referenced how it effects memory) but as far as the show goes, Daniel says to Desmond, “if you are meeting me in the future I should remember you, this here right now” (paraphrased), then Desmond says, “maybe you just forgot,” Daniel sarcastically says, “yeah right, how would that happen?”

    Sounds like in 1996 he’s assumes he remembers everything, however at some point he realizes he may not remember, and then writes it in his notebook. Not necessarily to trigger his Constant, but as a precautionary measure.

  366. Trixanna says:

    Wish I Were Lost said, “Best episode in a while. I would go through the time warp if it allowed me to see next weeks ep sooner, i dont care if i get an anyurism.”

    Dude! You really need to join the LAA group! Too funny ;-)

  367. Amarie says:

    Okay my first post…so I have been reading all the posts…so great I have learned so much…so I was thinking in the Economist episode…what if the person Sayid was assigned to kill was Widmore …and when Ben says to Sayid…don’t you want to save/help your friends he is refering to the losties still stuck on the island because of the various side effects caused by leaving (for certain characters)…meaning they don’t/can’t leave because of that…
    Also once you establish a constant…Desmond with Penny and Daniel with Desmond…maybe st that point you can control (your) timetravel instead of being a helpless victim…

  368. Julie says:

    [quote comment="189166"][quote comment="189153"]So does this mean desmond knows daniel before he meets him on the island? If you look towards the end of the third episode this season when desmond is asking the pilot at Penny….daniel looks at desmond as if he knows him.[/quote]

    A further thought….Desmond was discharged from the army for disobeying orders. Could it be that he went AWOL to find Daniel as told by the 2004 Daniel which sets him on the course that he is on. Maybe the past desmond he knew he was going to need to call penny on christmas eve 2004 from an island so he takes part on the around the world sailing competition as a search for the island in a way.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Well we do know that Des has been in prison. So if he went AWOL which is what I was guessing…this would lead to him going to prison.

  369. Amarie says:

    [quote comment="189035"]ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT WAS THE GREATEST EPISODE OF LOST SINCE THE ONE WHERE ANNA LUCIA AND LIBBY DIED. Desmond is not going to die. Sawyer is going to die, i’m 100% sure. Also, Jack wont go to see aaron because he is probably responsible for the death of Claire. Farraday or Charlotte die next episode. i hope its charlotte because farraday is cool[/quote]
    Why are you so sure Swayer is going to die…he cant…neither can Sayid…there too beautiful…if anyone needs to go is Jack…why is he always so controlling and thinks he knows what’s best for everyone…its annoying

  370. LostinSev says:

    People say that Walt kills the bird…maybe Walt time travels and knew that the bird was going to fly into the glass. Wasn’t he drawing the scene before it happened? He may have known his mom was going to die as well.

  371. LostinSev says:

    Who would Aaron’s constant be? Kate?? Claire may have died because she had no one?? Does anyone think Jack and Claire will ever find out they are half sibs?

  372. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189723"]
    did anyone else think of adam & eve lastnight? the writers said that they would be the proof that they had the ending in mind all along.
    quote]
    > So Adam & Eve, alone in the bare/ransacked hatch are? Future and/or past Charlotte & Daniel. (didn’t they have playing cards too).
    > That could make Jacob? Future and/or past Locke.
    > Same logic. Ben = Future and/or past Aaron.

    re: The 325 heading. Daniel wrote down 305 because he couldn’t remember the correct heading of 325.

  373. Julie says:

    Also… has anyone seen that movie OH CRAP I just forgot the name. Maybe I have the faraday disease….UGH!
    No, its a movie from like well…04.. that pretty much played backwards. It starred Guy Pierce and Carrie Ann Moss. The had no short term memory because of a traumatic incident. So he tattood everything he needed to remember on himself so he knew that he could trust it.
    I think what Faraday is dealing with is like that. He can remember the past but not anything current (or atleast not everything).
    I dont believe that Faraday is experiencing what Des is at all..and I dont believe that what his notebook said at the ending was to refer to that..
    I think that the whole point of that final shot was a closure of sorts….. once faraday saw that in his notebook he was assured that Des had reached him in the past. Up until that point… he had talked to des on the phone… told him what to do… but hadn’t spoken to him again so he didn’t know if it had actually worked. When he saw that… which he had obviously written in the past… he knew it had.
    Sorry if thats kind of all over the place and filled with typos but I’m walking out the door from work.

  374. SOS_LOST says:

    HEY YOU GUYS WHAT DO YOU THINK THE X’S ON THE CALENDER REPRESENT?
    ALSO WHY WERE THE PEOPLE ON THE BOAT SO ANGRY THAT FRANK BROUGHT PEOPLE ON THE BOAT?????

  375. cpro says:

    The Desmond-Minkowski phenomena is Future Sight, not Time Travel.

  376. Michael is on the boat because if you look at the credits each week, the actors who plays him is in the credits, which means he’s going to be appearing this season. And that’s the logical choice of Ben’s spy.

    Also, did any of you see that Hanso film with the rabbits where they scream “DON’T LET THEM SEE EACH OTHER!”?

    Now we know why.

  377. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment="189030"]…if anything like the lake house movie starts happening i’m not gonna be able to watch the show[/quote]

    Ok. I have to be honest and say I couldn’t get through reading all of the comments. There are so many! Sheesh. But I feel the same about the “cheese” factor. I did love the scene where Desmond calls Penny and she finally picks up. I was getting a little misty-eyed. I know..I know..but I couldn’t help it. It was lovely. HOWEVER…if it does begin to get too cheesy with time travel aspects, I don’t know how LOST and I can continue our relationship.

    I do wish to leave my theory after the show last night. Obviously now we know several people who have made it off the island and back to the “real world” (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, Ben, Aaron, Desmond). I think they may want to go back to the island, but CAN’T, simply because they can’t time travel like Desmond can. And the other Losties on the beach CAN’T get off the island because they time travel too much and have brain aneurysms and can’t make it too far before dying. And I think they are connected because of their exposure to radiation. REMEMBER: Hurley, Sawyer, Kate and Jack were on the dock with the Others and Ben when the Hatch exploded with Desmond in it. I know this does not explain Aaron, but maybe it’s because he was a teeny baby. I don’t know. I’m still trying to investigate the “Michael Faraday” connection. As I’m sure you all know, Michael Faraday was a British physicist and chemist, best known for his discoveries of electromagnetic induction and of the laws of electrolysis.

    Just my thoughts…

  378. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment="189739"]Also… has anyone seen that movie OH CRAP I just forgot the name. Maybe I have the faraday disease….UGH!
    No, its a movie from like well…04.. that pretty much played backwards. It starred Guy Pierce and Carrie Ann Moss. The had no short term memory because of a traumatic incident. So he tattood everything he needed to remember on himself so he knew that he could trust it.
    I think what Faraday is dealing with is like that. He can remember the past but not anything current (or atleast not everything).
    I dont believe that Faraday is experiencing what Des is at all..and I dont believe that what his notebook said at the ending was to refer to that..
    I think that the whole point of that final shot was a closure of sorts….. once faraday saw that in his notebook he was assured that Des had reached him in the past. Up until that point… he had talked to des on the phone… told him what to do… but hadn’t spoken to him again so he didn’t know if it had actually worked. When he saw that… which he had obviously written in the past… he knew it had.
    Sorry if thats kind of all over the place and filled with typos but I’m walking out the door from work.[/quote]

    You are thinking of Memento and I believe it was discussed in another section of posts. You should look into it. Sounds like it could maybe lead somewhere. :)

  379. Matt in da hatt says:

    So it seems to me that Dan did know Desmond when he got on the island. The podcast today said the sort of “time travel” (simplicities sake) is non paradoxical. Therefore Desmond and Dan both knew each other when they got on the island. Sort of. Dan figured out his radiation machine because he sends Desmond with the info from the future. The origin of this info I cannot account for. You cannot change the past, but you can causally interact with it. meaning.
    I’ll use back to the future as an antithesis. When Marty returns to 1985 in the first film, there are changes. Biff is waxing Marty’s car, they have a nice truck, his brother doesn’t work fast food, etc. If Marty had truly gone back in time, the only way for it to make sense is that these changes would have already occurred before he went back in time. Otherwise it is simply an alternate time line like we see in part 2, when Biff gets the almanac, and it should be corrected.
    My point is, Desmond’s consciousness on the freighter was his 1996 self, and he would have experienced feeling as if he were on a boat, visiting Dan, etc. MY explanation for them acting as if they had never met on the island: How crazy would the rest of them think they were?
    Desmond is still probably not sure whether what happened to him in 1996 in military camp was real or not. Dan understands the need to introduce the time issues with the island slowly to the islanders.
    Dan has the correct info when he arrives on the island because it was determined that desmond would bring it to him from the frieghter. Those familiar with determinism and compatiblism will understand this, if not, look them up on a philosophy site.

  380. TheoryNut says:

    [quote comment="189000"]Trying to wrap my head around time travel by conscience only. Walt seems to be able to do it. That explains why he is “taller” when he talks to Locke.

    Is this what Charlie meant when he said “I’m dead, but I’m also here.”?[/quote]

    Great theory, Charlie is only dead on the island, not in the future. He figured out the time swap conscious thing before he drowned!

  381. Rita says:

    Wow great ideas everybody! Finally got through all the posts and loved it!
    I have a few thoughts to add to what I’ve read:

    Daniel may have picked Desmond as his constant because Des is the only thing in his future that he can be absolutely sure will be there (because Des told him he knows him from the future, and gives him info/message from his future self). I think he tries the experiments on himself that he did with Eloise. He said in his note “if anything goes wrong, Desmond Humes will be my constant”. This to me is strong evidence that he did the experiments on himself or why else would he NEED a constant?

    Desmonds “time travel” seemed different from before in that this time it seemed that rather than travel back in time from his present self, he seemed to travel forward in time from his past self. He didn’t know the people around him (his past self hadn’t met them yet). Don’t know what this would mean, just an observation.

    When Desmond “got his constant”, his nose appeared to stop bleeding. He became calm and said he was OK now, and he seemed to know Sayeed. Now that Daniel also has his constant (Desmond) he seemed more together too, but we will have to wait to verify that.
    I believe that “the constants” have made a difference and that neither of them will therefore die (as did Minkowski and Brandon – and Eloise).

    The whole Walt “time traveling/phasing/shifting whatever” idea is fascinating. Perhaps rather than “cause” certain events to happen, he is simply aware of the outcome ahead of time, from having already “been there”. ie: he “saw” a bird fly into the window and die, then found a picture of the bird in a book and tried to show it to his stepfather, who didn’t look until after the event happened (bird died) and we all THOUGHT Walt made it happen.

    Keep the good ideas flowing, I can’t get enough! Thanks everybody!

  382. Cari says:

    This might be a stretch – but could Minkowski have died because Desmond changed both of their courses and therefore caused Minkowski to lose his ‘constant’? It just seems like the time frame would fit since Minkowski died shortly after Desmond changed his own history by going to Penny.

  383. KillerR says:

    LIFT UP
    YOUR EYES
    AND LOOK NORTH
    JOHN 3:05

    -Further Instructions-

  384. DocH says:

    More fuel for the fire: I agree that there is probably no actual travel thru time – per the producers and half the folks here. The term that fits best is “Astral Projection”. It was researched some in the 50’s and 60’s, but became quite a phenomena in the 70’s, right around the time when the DeGroots and Dharma were stepping things up.

    Astral Projection – The partial or complete separation of the *Astral Body* from the physical body, and visiting another locality, near or far. This normally occurs in sleep – though, as a general rule, one does not recall the experience on waking. The adept can command their astral body to go any place they desire in order to make observations and investigations, and acquire essential information. Vivid dreams are sometimes the result of these travel episodes.

    *Astral Body* – A replica of the physical body, but more subtle and tenuous. It penetrates every nerve, fibre and cell of the physical organism and is constantly in a supersensitive state of oscillation and pulsation. The psychic faculty within the astral body is impressionable to extra-sensory vibrations. The astrological concept is that of a magnetic field wherein the individual does most of his thinking, and from which they draw impressions by way of interpreting changes in the field due to cosmic radiation.

  385. TheoryNut says:

    I think Desmond is Jack’s constant. I also think that when Jack keeps flying (Finale Season 3) hoping to get back on the island, it’s not necessarly via crashing, perhaps he is returning there in his mind, like “Somewhere In Time” theories mentioned above.

  386. Rita says:

    [quote comment="189768"]More fuel for the fire: I agree that there is probably no actual travel thru time – per the producers and half the folks here. The term that fits best is “Astral Projection”. It was researched some in the 50’s and 60’s, but became quite a phenomena in the 70’s, right around the time when the DeGroots and Dharma were stepping things up.

    Astral Projection – The partial or complete separation of the *Astral Body* from the physical body, and visiting another locality, near or far. This normally occurs in sleep – though, as a general rule, one does not recall the experience on waking. The adept can command their astral body to go any place they desire in order to make observations and investigations, and acquire essential information. Vivid dreams are sometimes the result of these travel episodes.

    *Astral Body* – A replica of the physical body, but more subtle and tenuous. It penetrates every nerve, fibre and cell of the physical organism and is constantly in a supersensitive state of oscillation and pulsation. The psychic faculty within the astral body is impressionable to extra-sensory vibrations. The astrological concept is that of a magnetic field wherein the individual does most of his thinking, and from which they draw impressions by way of interpreting changes in the field due to cosmic radiation.[/quote]
    I don’t know DocH, Desmond is not so much going to another PLACE as another TIME. He is going back and forth to HIMSELF, in a physical body, not to a metaphysical or astral body. I believe him to be REALLY “there” when he “travels/shifts/phases”.

  387. Rita says:

    [quote comment="189769"]I think Desmond is Jack’s constant. I also think that when Jack keeps flying (Finale Season 3) hoping to get back on the island, it’s not necessarly via crashing, perhaps he is returning there in his mind, like “Somewhere In Time” theories mentioned above.[/quote]
    I’m not convinced that EVERYBODY is time traveling/shifting or that everybody therefore NEEDS a constant.

  388. Lostinspace says:

    I’m leaning towards Walt being Michaels dad. I know it sounds nuts but it fits with all the time travel stuff. It’s a bit creepy though. Also, Naiomi was very dark skinned. So seems obvious that Michael or Walt it is her father. Same goes for Said’s lady. Haven’t worked out what relation Abbadon is though. Could be anything.
    Does anybody wonder who was in the coffin? Or is that old news?

  389. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189774"]
    I don’t know DocH, Desmond is not so much going to another PLACE as another TIME. He is going back and forth to HIMSELF, in a physical body, not to a metaphysical or astral body. I believe him to be REALLY “there” when he “travels/shifts/phases”.
    [/quote]
    I don’t know Rita – re: Astral Projection.
    The Institute of Psychophysical Research in London, at Oxford University (Daniel’s school) is one of the premiere (top 3) institutions to advance understanding of the working of the human mind by scientific research, in this field.

    (there may be a screen cap out there that shows which department Daniel is in.-?)

  390. forum_newbie says:

    First time online searching for lost discussion due to last nights episode – the theory/count about the Oceanic 6 is pretty insightful.

    I just had to mention that one of my issues leading up to this episode was the Kate/Aaron timeline — it didn’t seem reasonable that the world would believe she had a baby, but with the time disruption between the island and the “real world” it at least opens a possible explanation.

  391. Lostie says:

    [quote comment="189775"][quote comment="189769"]I think Desmond is Jack’s constant. I also think that when Jack keeps flying (Finale Season 3) hoping to get back on the island, it’s not necessarly via crashing, perhaps he is returning there in his mind, like “Somewhere In Time” theories mentioned above.[/quote]
    I’m not convinced that EVERYBODY is time traveling/shifting or that everybody therefore NEEDS a constant.[/quote]

    That’s interesting because I was starting to wonder if Jack’s issue later on is his lack of a constant and inability to make Kate his constant. KAte seems to be fine- maybe because she’s got Aaron as her constant. Hurley is just nuts, but that’s not new.

    I really like the notion of a time travelling conscious. I was worried it would get kooky with a more traditional concept of time travel where Desmond would have looked as he does today back in 1996. That would have been annoying.

    The other thought is that maybe the future Jack’s conscious is going back to the island and forth to the future. The problem is that he doesn’t have a constant from the island and his future self. Maybe in the end he finds his constant in Aaron and reconciles in the end realizing at that point he is his uncle.

    great episode!

  392. TheoryNut says:

    O M G!

    YOU GUYS HAVE TO WATCH THE AUCTION SCENE LIKE TEN TIMES! BEN IS THERE! THE SCENE PANES EVERYONE, THE GUY WITH THE PONY TAIL IS SITTING BEHIND THE BLONDE LADY, BEN IS SITTING BEHIND THE SHORT GRAY HAIRED LADY. WHEN THE SCENE PANES FROM BEHIND HE DISAPPERS! THE PONY TAIL GUY IS SITTING CATY CORNER TO THE BLONDE. THE LADY IN THE SECOND ROW ON THE LEFT KINDA DOES LOOK LIKE A OLD ANA LUCIA, IT’S HARD TO TELL, BUT HER LIPS ARE PURSED. CORRECT ME IF I’M WRONG, JUST KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE BACK OF THE OLD LADY, AND (BEN) IS THERE AND NOT THERE!

  393. TheoryNut says:

    WHEN DESMOND COMES IN, BEN IS GONE!

  394. jophelias says:

    [quote comment="189735"][quote comment="189035"]ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT WAS THE GREATEST EPISODE OF LOST SINCE THE ONE WHERE ANNA LUCIA AND LIBBY DIED. Desmond is not going to die. Sawyer is going to die, i’m 100% sure. Also, Jack wont go to see aaron because he is probably responsible for the death of Claire. Farraday or Charlotte die next episode. i hope its charlotte because farraday is cool[/quote]
    __________________________

    there is absolutely no way Daniel Farraday is going to die anytime soon. He’s the one who discovered time phasing. The whole show is centered around Des and Farraday right now.

  395. Love's Labour Lost says:

    [quote comment="189136"]Seems like people are confusing the time travel thing with the island time thing. I don’t think is necessarily one in the same. The conscience time travel was presented as a side effect to the travel between the island and the real world.[/quote]

    This poster isn’t the only offender, but I’ve finally had enough–the word is “conscious” — as in “a state of conscious.” Your conscience is the thing that keeps you from stealing and lying.

  396. smith says:

    [quote comment="189028"]Maybe I’m crazy, but when we see Sayid on the freighter alone (16 minutes in) the camera scans toward the top of the ship…and it looks like an African American man with a goatee looking through binoculars….could this be Michael?[/quote]

    i took another look and it didn’t appear to me that the person with the binoculars was michael…the person did not appear to be african-american.

  397. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189793"][quote comment="189136"]Seems like people are confusing the time travel thing with the island time thing. I don’t think is necessarily one in the same. The conscience time travel was presented as a side effect to the travel between the island and the real world.[/quote]

    This poster isn’t the only offender, but I’ve finally had enough–the word is “conscious” — as in “a state of conscious.” Your conscience is the thing that keeps you from stealing and lying.[/quote]
    And -‘s are used in math, as in subtracting two numbers.

  398. Freckles says:

    Could it be that almost everyone could have a constant since they crossed paths at one time or another?

  399. Love's Labour Lost says:

    [quote comment="189804"][quote comment="189793"][quote comment="189136"]Seems like people are confusing the time travel thing with the island time thing. I don’t think is necessarily one in the same. The conscience time travel was presented as a side effect to the travel between the island and the real world.[/quote]

    This poster isn’t the only offender, but I’ve finally had enough–the word is “conscious” — as in “a state of conscious.” Your conscience is the thing that keeps you from stealing and lying.[/quote]
    And -‘s are used in math, as in subtracting two numbers.[/quote]

    First of all, a hyphen is a perfectly acceptable grammatical tool. Secondly, “apostrophe s” represents a contraction, not a plural.

  400. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”189573 maybe the side-effect then inables him, despite his ‘death’, to appear in the world whereas the side-effect kills people who have two active timelines. I know this is confusing, don’t know if i managed to communicate this… what do you guys think? Could this also have something to do with wispers?[/quote]I def. think this has to do with the whispers. I wish we had a whispers thread so we can discuss theories on them as feel they might be spoilerish.

  401. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189807"][quote comment="189804"][quote comment="189793"][quote comment="189136"]Seems like people are confusing the time travel thing with the island time thing. I don’t think is necessarily one in the same. The conscience time travel was presented as a side effect to the travel between the island and the real world.[/quote]

    This poster isn’t the only offender, but I’ve finally had enough–the word is “conscious” — as in “a state of conscious.” Your conscience is the thing that keeps you from stealing and lying.[/quote]
    And -‘s are used in math, as in subtracting two numbers.[/quote]

    First of all, a hyphen is a perfectly acceptable grammatical tool. Secondly, “apostrophe s” represents a contraction, not a plural.[/quote]
    Thanks for all the grammer lessons. Do you want to discuss any of my theories or just complain?

  402. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189813"]
    Thanks for all the grammer lessons. Do you want to discuss any of my theories or just complain?
    [/quote]
    nyuk-nyuk-nyuk
    Hammer – you are fun.
    You said grammer (like hammer), instead of grammar.
    Feed me theories!

  403. Hammer says:

    I struggling with future time travel/phasing. We haven’t seen any one go to the future have we? Just from the present to the past and back right? Faraday said you can’t change the future, but he talking to someone who had traveled to the past. It seems you can change the past. Desmond talked Penny into giving him the number, which didn’t happen before. And Faraday told Dez to get on a train and go him, etc. which didn’t happen before.

  404. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189820"][quote comment="189813"]
    Thanks for all the grammer lessons. Do you want to discuss any of my theories or just complain?
    [/quote]
    nyuk-nyuk-nyuk
    Hammer – you are fun.
    You said grammer (like hammer), instead of grammar.
    Feed me theories![/quote]
    LOL, I hope triple L doesn’t get bent out of shape over it. It’s my warped sense of humor. It’s a pet peave of mine to get corrected on a blog, it’s not like you don’t understand my points, right?

  405. Hammer says:

    DocH (or anyone else) do you think that talking about the whispers would spoilerish?

  406. Omar Kamel says:

    Once again, I’m late to post. I’ve gone through most of the comments, but may have missed something. Here are my thoughts:

    1. For Daniel, well, something obviously DOES go wrong – but it is yet to happen. I think the message in his notebook is from a future self of his who remains in touch with Desmond and who had ‘oscillated’ to some point in our Daniels’ past, and had left this clue for Daniel to eventually find. Whatever it is that went wrong is also the thing that had him so disturbed when he was watching TV when Oceanic 815 was ‘found’.

    2. It also seems that the time-phasing creates a ‘memory scar’ or trace that reality then heals together, which would somehow explain why after the periods in which the flashes/phases occur – recollection of the events involved would dim away and disappear. This might explain why present Daniel doesn’t recall meeting Desmond before.

    3. The Black Rock’s ledger was an interesting link, yeah – and seems to imply that Widmore & Abbadon are on the same side – assuming there are two sides to this struggle, which I’m still likely to believe. If not, then Widmore is a third party. More likely, Abbadon is an agent for Widmore, and they have been searching for this Island for years. This implies however, that Widemore knew OF the Island’s existence before 1996. Something about that smells of Ben, but I can’t tell how exactly.

    4. The bearing Ben gave to Michael is not the same one Daniel gave to Frank. It’s therefore possible that it’s not so much a certain bearing – but that there’s an ‘area’ or gateway that you have to pass through.

    5. The only explanation I have for how something are NOT slowed down and some are would be the frequency of the thing. Solid matter, being of lowest frequency, would take the most time to get through the time-bubble or field, whereas, much higher frequenies, such as the signal between the phones, would take much less time.

    Otherwise, ungh.

    Waiting for the next episode.

  407. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189789"]O M G!

    YOU GUYS HAVE TO WATCH THE AUCTION SCENE LIKE TEN TIMES! BEN IS THERE! THE SCENE PANES EVERYONE, THE GUY WITH THE PONY TAIL IS SITTING BEHIND THE BLONDE LADY, BEN IS SITTING BEHIND THE SHORT GRAY HAIRED LADY. WHEN THE SCENE PANES FROM BEHIND HE DISAPPERS! THE PONY TAIL GUY IS SITTING CATY CORNER TO THE BLONDE. THE LADY IN THE SECOND ROW ON THE LEFT KINDA DOES LOOK LIKE A OLD ANA LUCIA, IT’S HARD TO TELL, BUT HER LIPS ARE PURSED. CORRECT ME IF I’M WRONG, JUST KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE BACK OF THE OLD LADY, AND (BEN) IS THERE AND NOT THERE![/quote]

    We would need a screencap to be positive, but I do not think that is Ben. At 30:44 you get another angle of the guy sitting behind the blonde (right before Desmond enters) and it is definitely not Ben. (Assuming you are talking about the man in the blue shirt).

  408. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="189832"]DocH (or anyone else) do you think that talking about the whispers would spoilerish?[/quote]

    Well, as usual – if it’s information that is both factual (canonical) and given before it’s released officially, then yes – it would be a spoiler. But speculation-wise, I don’t think anything is spoiler-ish?

    I was actually re-thinking the whispers tonight, in relation to them being fragments/voices, etc – bouncing back and forth in time. It’s a loose explanation, but starting to make more sense…

  409. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="189806"]Could it be that almost everyone could have a constant since they crossed paths at one time or another?[/quote]

    Brilliant notion.

    Not quite sure that everybody has a SINGLE constant – but the idea that people and connections can serve as a constant or anchor will certainly help explain why our Losties have crossed paths so many times before. Those moments in the past may serve as entry points for time-phasing Losties to help each other out.

    Wow. That would actually be quite trippy.

  410. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189835"][quote comment="189832"]DocH (or anyone else) do you think that talking about the whispers would spoilerish?[/quote]

    Well, as usual – if it’s information that is both factual (canonical) and given before it’s released officially, then yes – it would be a spoiler. But speculation-wise, I don’t think anything is spoiler-ish?

    I was actually re-thinking the whispers tonight, in relation to them being fragments/voices, etc – bouncing back and forth in time. It’s a loose explanation, but starting to make more sense…[/quote]
    Yes, I really think that they are hints about the CONCIOUS travel/phasing. But since they are in the actual episodes, do we get liscense?

  411. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189774"][quote comment="189768"]Astral Projection – The partial or complete separation of the *Astral Body* from the physical body, and visiting another locality, near or far. This normally occurs in sleep – though, as a general rule, one does not recall the experience on waking. The adept can command their astral body to go any place they desire in order to make observations and investigations, and acquire essential information. Vivid dreams are sometimes the result of these travel episodes.

    [/quote]
    I don’t know DocH, Desmond is not so much going to another PLACE as another TIME. He is going back and forth to HIMSELF, in a physical body, not to a metaphysical or astral body. I believe him to be REALLY “there” when he “travels/shifts/phases”.[/quote]

    I’m tending to agree with Rita(again) on this issue. 1) Des recalls the experience upon waking, but 2) and I think more important, is that he is not the least bit in control of the conscious phasing.

  412. Miss Kim says:

    OK. Lots of great ideas. Instead of astral projection, what about teleportation? Teleportation is known in Tibetan Buddhism….as is Dharma….

  413. Debbie Downer says:

    Have you ever wondered if the reason that this show is called LOST is because of all the time we spend watching, thinking about, and analyzing it is LOST. We can’t get this time back. It’s lost.

    We could be doing something productive, but no, here we are all at our computers reading the thoughts of strangers about a pretend group of people while we neglect the real people around us.

    Are we going to be on our death beds wondering, “Wow, I wish I would have spent more time blogging about Lost.”

    Just a thought.

  414. Miss Kim says:

    Teleportation and the Vile Vortices……somehow one has something to do with the other.

  415. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189833"]
    4. The bearing Ben gave to Michael is not the same one Daniel gave to Frank. It’s therefore possible that it’s not so much a certain bearing – but that there’s an ‘area’ or gateway that you have to pass through.[/quote]

    There could be bearings for air (305) and sea (325). My only issue with that is it seems that Freightors should be able to go in there since they have a bearing and know the gateway, but they do not because of…?

    So that may be why they need Ben, because they know they are not quite right and can’t risk entry because of the side effects, that have been written about in the Black Rock journal (speculation) when the Black Rock did not enter on the exact bearings.

  416. Miss Kim says:

    Dear Ms. Downer: Learning and thinking–which is something LOST and this blog help me do–is nothing I would ever regret. LOST is a brilliant show and those of us who enjoy enriching our lives with thoughts of science and philosophy are not “losing” anything. Maybe your comments would be better served on The American Idol blog.

  417. Mewonder says:

    Hello Lost Friends, I just wanted to say that there is a lot of good stuff on that sheet from Faradays notebook. The sheet with all the globes/bubbles (could the globes be the vile vortices ?) with lines running between them with names like Real Time, Space Time, etc. If you look up Spacetime…..you will learn about Hermann MINKOWSKI one of Einsteins teachers. You can read about 4 dimensions and how time is not a constant but time slows down when speed is increased.
    I had 1 question. Wasn’t Faraday one of the scientists in the arctic ie one of the poles/vortices — the scene at the end of the season which introduced the picture of Des & Penny ?

  418. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189844"]Have you ever wondered if the reason that this show is called LOST is because of all the time we spend watching, thinking about, and analyzing it is LOST. We can’t get this time back. It’s lost.

    We could be doing something productive, but no, here we are all at our computers reading the thoughts of strangers about a pretend group of people while we neglect the real people around us.

    Are we going to be on our death beds wondering, “Wow, I wish I would have spent more time blogging about Lost.”

    Just a thought.[/quote]
    Not for me, I just spent 3 hours coaching my daughter’s fast pitch softball team practice. I am helping my wife put together flyers for our side biz between reading and posts. Right now, Lost is my HOBBY instead of painting ceramics, etc. I’m not neglecting anyone.

  419. Mewonder says:

    Forgot to say some of the other lines going between the globes, besides real time and space time, read imaginary space, imaginary time, and pole

  420. Debbie Downer says:

    It was a sick joke. Sorry to offend. I love this show, too. I am a total LOST fan. Please forgive me.

  421. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189852"]It was a sick joke. Sorry to offendor. I love this show, too. I am a total LOST fan. Please forgive me.[/quote]
    Forgiven…request the “Downer” removed from you name. :)

  422. RGS says:

    [quote comment="189844"]Have you ever wondered if the reason that this show is called LOST is because of all the time we spend watching, thinking about, and analyzing it is LOST. We can’t get this time back. It’s lost.

    We could be doing something productive, but no, here we are all at our computers reading the thoughts of strangers about a pretend group of people while we neglect the real people around us.

    Are we going to be on our death beds wondering, “Wow, I wish I would have spent more time blogging about Lost.”

    Just a thought.[/quote]

    2 weeks ago when I was sick with the flu, I felt I was on my deathbed…I was hoping I could get enough energy to get to the computer to blog about Lost. :-/

  423. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189851"]Forgot to say some of the other lines going between the globes, besides real time and space time, read imaginary space, imaginary time, and pole[/quote]
    Is there a screen cap somewhere of his note book?

  424. Trixanna says:

    Ms. Downer, I will be on my deathbed wishing I had “figured it out”! Hopefully I have a few more seasons in me… LOL!!! I was not offended by your comment, you were using the word “We” which indicated you consider yourself to be addicted also.

  425. Mewonder says:

    I don’t know of a screen cap. It comes at the very end when Faraday is flipping thru his notebook. There is also a diagram of a line running from point A to point B Time is at the top, Imaginary space is on the left side, S Pole (south pole) is on the right side, and real time is at the bottom. This is on the page opposite, If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant

  426. genethemachine says:

    i don’t believe it’s about time travel, rather a parallel universe.

    in parallel universes, time is not relevant. scientists believe there are parallel universes, but we just have no way of “entering” them since we cannot control a force to enter worm holes into those universes.

    remember when desmond didn’t push the buttons and the magnetic force was released from the island? that force enabled a worm hole to open up and oceanic 815 entered into the islands parallel universe.

    read this site link to learn more about m-theory. i think this is what the basis of lost is about.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/spacechat/livechat/michio_kaku.shtml

  427. TheoryNut says:

    [quote comment="189834"][quote comment="189789"]O M G!

    YOU GUYS HAVE TO WATCH THE AUCTION SCENE LIKE TEN TIMES! BEN IS THERE! THE SCENE PANES EVERYONE, THE GUY WITH THE PONY TAIL IS SITTING BEHIND THE BLONDE LADY, BEN IS SITTING BEHIND THE SHORT GRAY HAIRED LADY. WHEN THE SCENE PANES FROM BEHIND HE DISAPPERS! THE PONY TAIL GUY IS SITTING CATY CORNER TO THE BLONDE. THE LADY IN THE SECOND ROW ON THE LEFT KINDA DOES LOOK LIKE A OLD ANA LUCIA, IT’S HARD TO TELL, BUT HER LIPS ARE PURSED. CORRECT ME IF I’M WRONG, JUST KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE BACK OF THE OLD LADY, AND (BEN) IS THERE AND NOT THERE![/quote]

    We would need a screencap to be positive, but I do not think that is Ben. At 30:44 you get another angle of the guy sitting behind the blonde (right before Desmond enters) and it is definitely not Ben. (Assuming you are talking about the man in the blue shirt).[/quote]

    *** You could be right, but I swear I watched it over and over, Possible Ben was wearing what looked like a gray shirt and tie under suit. The guy your refering to is a blue suit. I just thought the scene was quite interesting for all the shots. I’ll watch again, but I think there was a reason for showing him multiple times. Perhaps Ben is Mr. Widemore constant and he had to be there for some reason so he could win the auction. Also on a side note, I thought it was also interesting that Mr. Widemore said to Des in the bathroom, I’m not the one that hates you. If he was referring to Penny, why would he even give Des the time of day or give him Penny’s address. There’s so many levels to that auction/bathroom scene for sure. I LOVE IT!

  428. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189869"]I don’t know of a screen cap. It comes at the very end when Faraday is flipping thru his notebook. There is also a diagram of a line running from point A to point B Time is at the top, Imaginary space is on the left side, S Pole (south pole) is on the right side, and real time is at the bottom. This is on the page opposite, If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant[/quote]
    Here are some screencaps. Maybe the one you’re thinking of is there?

  429. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189881"][quote comment="189834"][quote comment="189789"]O M G!

    YOU GUYS HAVE TO WATCH THE AUCTION SCENE LIKE TEN TIMES! BEN IS THERE! THE SCENE PANES EVERYONE, THE GUY WITH THE PONY TAIL IS SITTING BEHIND THE BLONDE LADY, BEN IS SITTING BEHIND THE SHORT GRAY HAIRED LADY. WHEN THE SCENE PANES FROM BEHIND HE DISAPPERS! THE PONY TAIL GUY IS SITTING CATY CORNER TO THE BLONDE. THE LADY IN THE SECOND ROW ON THE LEFT KINDA DOES LOOK LIKE A OLD ANA LUCIA, IT’S HARD TO TELL, BUT HER LIPS ARE PURSED. CORRECT ME IF I’M WRONG, JUST KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE BACK OF THE OLD LADY, AND (BEN) IS THERE AND NOT THERE![/quote]

    We would need a screencap to be positive, but I do not think that is Ben. At 30:44 you get another angle of the guy sitting behind the blonde (right before Desmond enters) and it is definitely not Ben. (Assuming you are talking about the man in the blue shirt).[/quote]

    *** You could be right, but I swear I watched it over and over, Possible Ben was wearing what looked like a gray shirt and tie under suit. The guy your refering to is a blue suit. I just thought the scene was quite interesting for all the shots. I’ll watch again, but I think there was a reason for showing him multiple times. Perhaps Ben is Mr. Widemore constant and he had to be there for some reason so he could win the auction. Also on a side note, I thought it was also interesting that Mr. Widemore said to Des in the bathroom, I’m not the one that hates you. If he was referring to Penny, why would he even give Des the time of day or give him Penny’s address. There’s so many levels to that auction/bathroom scene for sure. I LOVE IT![/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Go back to comment #192. Some screencaps were already provided and discussed. I don’t think that’s Ben.

  430. skweez says:

    When Dez came to in Daniels office, Daniel said that he was out for 75 minutes. Then he asks Dez how long he was in the “future” and Dez says, 5 minutes. Any thoughts????

  431. Circus Mom says:

    If I could travel in time I would go 2 hours into the future to where I had read all the posts. Then I could post my replys and theories that havn’t been covered yet. I’m on post 327. Everytime I leave the computer 50 more posts show up.

  432. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="189678"]In answer to the question of David Hume’s significance, it is worth pointing out that both Hume (Desmond’s last name) and John Locke were philosophers with different takes on the nature of knowledge. While Locke argued that we rely upon reason to determine our knowledge and understanding of our world, Hume pointed out that what we call “reason” is still a product of our passions. Basically, Locke had faith in the ability of human reason, while Hume was considered a skeptic.

    Originally, Locke and Jack were at odds, and I loved the faith vs. reason dichotomy they represented. Once Desmond was introduced to the story, however, I noted his last name immediately. Though we have not seen Locke and Desmond pitted against one another to the same degree, I think their names are entirely too deliberate to overlook. Of course, there was the incident with blowing up the hatch, where Locke and Desmond disagreed over whether or not to stop pushing the button, and this conflict had rather significant results.

    Considering all of the philosophical, scientific, and anthropological issues involved in the show, it is interesting that two of the main characters are named after famous philosophers who attempted to explain their versions of human knowledge and reality. All the while, we viewers continue to analyze the reality of the experiences we see on the show. Who are the “good” guys? Who are the “bad” guys? Upon what grounds can the characters formulate any real knowledge? Their world is a shaky one, just as ours is.

    I certainly hope Desmond is central to the overall plot. I have never been a big fan of Locke. While I sympathize with his tragic past, I have always questioned his dedication to his particular faith in the island and his importance. He has his abilities, but he also has major ego issues. His recent dictatorship with no clear direction only makes me continue to doubt him. I don’t blame Jack for wanting to pull the trigger on him. Locke is motivated by his desire to be important, while I think both Jack and Desmond are motivated by their desire to be honorable men. Of course, their motivations are just as selfish when you begin to break them down. We are all motivated by our particular passions, and our realities are thereby shaped accordingly. I am pretty certain that is David Hume’s stand in the first place.

    As far as Jack’s name is concerned (Shepherd), his biblical significance has already been noted. “He walks among us though he is not one of us.” He is the savior, and I have to admit that I love the ironic spin that the so-called savior later regrets his good deed.

    Jack, Locke, and Desmond are all pivotal characters. If any of them disappear anytime soon, I will be concerned.[/quote]

    Great post.

  433. Circus Mom says:

    Jake 249: Best possibility for the O6 I have seen yet.

    Nakira: I think the cards are checking Daniels memory of the near future. All the small doses of radiation he was exposed to over time caused small “jumps” in his consciousness. Short jumps, short term memory loss.

    If Aaron left on the correct barring with the (other?) O6 he wouldn’t have the side affects.

    Wish I were lost #272: Eloise had been “unlocked from time” without going near the island so it is possible elsewhere. Just easier or more unavoidable when traveling to or from there.

    lostfan 282: Great theory on how Charlie appeared to Hurley in the future.

    deangoodes #322: When Des in “traveling” back and forth his 1996 self is the only one active. He is in one time or the other and his other body is passed out during his absense. When he contacted his constant, Penny, his 2004 self returned to his 2004 body. This sent his 1996 self back to his 1996 body to stay.

    I think his 2004 self remembers all of what happened but his 1996 self may think it was a dream or hallucination so he eventually forgets about it untell it happens (in 2004).

    Once the constant is contacted is the travelor cured untill they pass the bubble again or do they have to have constant, constant contact.

    Anyone care to predict how many comments there will be on this thread before next Thursday? No fair traveling there to find out first.

  434. Meathead says:

    Question (sorry if this has been addressed).

    Is what Desmond had the same as what happened to Patchy when passing through the fence. Is that a connection….

  435. mike says:

    [quote comment="189034"]Des will be one of the “O6″,either that or he will be one of the “DO8″(2 Dead “O6″survivors from Jacks BS court story).I assume this because he is with Syaid now so… what happens next,its up to you but I say the big dude fom Vegas is not the ships libraian so expect fireworks next episode.Also,Ben’s “Man on the Boat”?… I think its the chopper pilot,what say you?[/quote]
    des cant be one of the oceamic 6 because he never was on oceanic flight 815 he crashed on a boat into the island years before the plane crash

  436. AnneK says:

    (I took one link out,’cause I got this message telling me my comment was caught by the spam filter, probably because it had 2 links in it)
    Hey, new here(but not to the show!)
    I’ve read almost all comments on this page, so I don’t think this has been mentioned here yet(perhaps under other entries). I’ve just realised this now, although it should’ve hit me much earlier on: Penelope and Des are a total reference to Penelope and Ulysses from the Greek Oddissey! Penelope is the epitome of the faithful wife longing for her lost at sea husband. Check these pages out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penelope
    As another interesting little fact: in the Oddissey Penelope”devises tricks to delay her suitors, one of which is pretending to weave a burial shroud for Odysseus’ elderly father Laertes and claiming she will choose one suitor when she has finished. Every night for three years she has undone part of the shroud” (check the wiki link for more). How long does Penny say on the phone she’s waited Des for?Yeah, for 3 years.
    I just love the fact that this show is so full of literary references. The writers are surely well-read guys, to say the least. And I believe nothing is random here. Episodes like this one, as well as the careful choosing of names of characters and objects, places are definitely arguments that everything has been well planned since the beginning.
    The entire show could in fact be interpreted in terms of intertextualism.

  437. avalanche says:

    to miss downer ,who obviously can joke about herself: time is never lost. i think we all have an appreciation for this show due to its puzzle like nature/its literary value–in references and structure/its character development/its sense of fun! i get more out of watching, discussing, and thinking about lost than i would out of mindlessly consuming two and a half men or some other crap on tv. not to mention a show that makes me check out physic books from a library has accomplished something my high school teachers nor college profesors could do!

    what i’m curious about–i would like some feedback on the nature of “lost” as a show not in the form of what’s going on?” but rather what does lost say about people. i’m just as interested to solve the riddles of the island as the next guy but what does this show say about us as people. i think all great science fiction (and i love science fiction) is simply another theatre for the human condition. i think of the characters on lost and i see a multi-cultural group that is lost. emotionally spiritually and physically. i can’t help but see this as a microcosm of the world. is sayid iraq? is he our idea of iraq? how do we as americans treat him as an iraqi? what does this say about us? how would we interact with an iraqi torturer? how should we?

    at the risk of being a “donny” downer i wonder why we focus on the simplest side of the riddles on lost. whats easier to discuss–the wormhole theory or what these characters say about a global community that is shrinking and still can’t live with itself?

  438. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189835"]
    … talking about the whispers would spoilerish?
    [/quote]
    [quote comment="189832"]
    … before it’s released officially, then yes – it would be a spoiler. But speculation-wise, I don’t think anything is spoiler-ish?…
    [/quote]
    I think anything that has gone before is fair game – if it pertains to this episode in some way, per guideline #2 above – staying on topic. ‘Conjecture about whisper’ + ‘Constant fact #X’ does NOT = ‘spoiler’. (IMO)
    Just don’t use the C word (coffin). plz!
    ;^o

  439. DocH says:

    Owners of above quotes in 439 are reversed – apologies.

  440. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="189952"]to miss downer ,who obviously can joke about herself: time is never lost. i think we all have an appreciation for this show due to its puzzle like nature/its literary value–in references and structure/its character development/its sense of fun! i get more out of watching, discussing, and thinking about lost than i would out of mindlessly consuming two and a half men or some other crap on tv. not to mention a show that makes me check out physic books from a library has accomplished something my high school teachers nor college profesors could do!

    what i’m curious about–i would like some feedback on the nature of “lost” as a show not in the form of what’s going on?” but rather what does lost say about people. i’m just as interested to solve the riddles of the island as the next guy but what does this show say about us as people. i think all great science fiction (and i love science fiction) is simply another theatre for the human condition. i think of the characters on lost and i see a multi-cultural group that is lost. emotionally spiritually and physically. i can’t help but see this as a microcosm of the world. is sayid iraq? is he our idea of iraq? how do we as americans treat him as an iraqi? what does this say about us? how would we interact with an iraqi torturer? how should we?

    at the risk of being a “donny” downer i wonder why we focus on the simplest side of the riddles on lost. whats easier to discuss–the wormhole theory or what these characters say about a global community that is shrinking and still can’t live with itself?[/quote]
    Certanly a great topic for disscussion but would probably need it’s own thread. Just the fact alone that so many of our losties have killed someone, yet we are still able to love, admire and root for them says sometning profound about societys values.

  441. Circus Mom says:

    The c word seems to be a “constant” for this blog.

  442. DocH says:

    [quote comment="189894"]
    When Dez came to in Daniels office, Daniel said that he was out for 75 minutes. Then he asks Dez how long he was in the “future” and Dez says, 5 minutes. Any thoughts????
    [/quote]
    I rewatched last night and caught that too. The ratio is 15:1 – about the same as the rocket flight and the helo flight (I was thinking 12:1 or thereabouts).

  443. jason davis says:

    dejavu
    after reading nearlly all of the posts for the last hour or so i dont believe any one has noticed about the numbers in this episode.
    the year is 200(4) and desmond goes back (8) years,the numbers faraday gives desmond are (2.3)=23(42) coincedence? i dont think so.

    the black rock found the island and the first mate wrote a journal about everything that was going on on the island,the journal then centuries later turned up with mr hanso who founded the darmah initive and went to the island himself who then carried out experiments on animals (polar bears) which i guess were sent back in time explaining why the new girl found one at an archelogical dig, also the hatch with the numbers was made because of side effects due to the island which is obviously people dying from exposure to the islands time shifting and the numbers are the setings of the electro magnetism field to keep the island in sinc with normal time as farday gave part of these numbers to desmond to tell him in the past as i said above.(i will get back to the hatch in a bit)
    the french lady said all of her people died when she got to the island obviously from the same sickness as desmond(time travelling) the others(possibly black rock crew?) then have ben kill his dad and the rest of the darmah initive,is bens anchor(constant) his dad and by killing him he has some how severed his constant enabelling him to travel back and forward at will, is this why he wanted john to kill his dad as this is johns constant,
    are all of these flashbacks we keep seing every episode real time and not flashbacks at all as if i rember corectly when claire had her car crash she said she just blacked out and the next thing she rembered was waking up in hospital,desmond blacked out when he time shiffted aswell,maybe this is why claire can not leave the island and her son does.
    the machiene in the hatch obviously admits a huge magnetic field set at the same radiation levels as the island which i believe hanso made to keep the island in sync with normal time when the hatch imploded the islands time has gone awol again to normal time,the whispers in the jungle are echos of past or future left behind is this why mr eko got his name as the black smoke did get him is the black smoke echos as if you watch carefully when it gets mr echo you can see images of people in it.
    the oceanic 6 is kate,jack,hurlley,syiad,earron,for sure which leaves one place up for grabs
    as for dejavu we all have it when something happens and you think youve experienced it before,is this why faraday ,desmond cant rember things are all of the losties subconciously travellig back with out knowing like a dejavu?

    tell me what you think

  444. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190048"]
    as for dejavu we all have it when something happens and you think youve experienced it before,is this why faraday ,desmond cant rember things are all of the losties subconciously travellig back with out knowing like a dejavu?
    [/quote]
    > Once Desmond had his initial meltdown on the helo, he had no memory of Sayid. He was flashing back and forth all of the show. At the very end, once he connected with past Penny and current Penny (finding his Constant), he called Sayid by name, appeared to recognize him, where they were and why they were there.
    > Seems like Deja Vu would have at least kept Desmond somewhat comfortable and familiar with Sayid every time he popped/flashed forward to the freighter. (?)

  445. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="189982"]I think anything that has gone before is fair game – if it pertains to this episode in some way, per guideline #2 above – staying on topic. ‘Conjecture about whisper’ + ‘Constant fact #X’ does NOT = ‘spoiler’. (IMO)
    Just don’t use the C word (coffin). plz!
    ;^o[/quote]
    Okay, I feel that there are clues in the whispers that may pertain to this episode. I have to collect my thoughts and do some research so it doesn’t sound like babble…

  446. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190048"]dejavu
    after reading nearlly all of the posts for the last hour or so i dont believe any one has noticed about the numbers in this episode.
    the year is 200(4) and desmond goes back (8) years,the numbers faraday gives desmond are (2.3)=23(42) coincedence? i dont think so.

    the oceanic 6 is kate,jack,hurlley,syiad,earron,for sure which leaves one place up for grabs
    as for dejavu we all have it when something happens and you think youve experienced it before,is this why faraday ,desmond cant rember things are all of the losties subconciously travellig back with out knowing like a dejavu?

    tell me what you think[/quote]

    I think you are another Lost Junkie…welcome to the fold. Your post displays classic symptoms, hurried, parts convoluted, some fact, some fiction, I got the feeling that every now and again you clapped your hands wildly, before rubbing your arms because of the spiders you think may or may not be there.

    I can say your O6 members are a popular theory. It is sometimes easier to post separate thoughts, especially when they will each require quite a bit of independent analysis. Other than that, welcome to our crazy world.

  447. jason davis says:

    just watched bits of the last episode again pennys house number is 423

  448. jason davis says:

    and also looked at what others have seen eg.ben in the auction house and michale on the boat with binoculars ,it is definatley not them

  449. DdoubleO says:

    [quote comment="189643"]IMO we need to stop calling what is happening time travel which implies a physical ability to go between different times. This is not what is happening. What does seem to be happening is that the conscience can go back to any point where the person was (or will be?) with the knowledge the person has currently. Then, when the conscience jumps back to the present, there is a “new” past that the person has from that point on.Really hard to explain this.
    An example, Daniel found that comment about Dez being his constant in his journal at the end of the episode (after Dez’s conscience went back). If he had looked through his journal in the beginning of the episode, it would not have been there, because Dez had not gone to him yet.[/quote]
    [quote comment="189768"]More fuel for the fire: I agree that there is probably no actual travel thru time – per the producers and half the folks here. The term that fits best is “Astral Projection”. It was researched some in the 50’s and 60’s, but became quite a phenomena in the 70’s, right around the time when the DeGroots and Dharma were stepping things up.

    Astral Projection – The partial or complete separation of the *Astral Body* from the physical body, and visiting another locality, near or far. This normally occurs in sleep – though, as a general rule, one does not recall the experience on waking. The adept can command their astral body to go any place they desire in order to make observations and investigations, and acquire essential information. Vivid dreams are sometimes the result of these travel episodes.

    *Astral Body* – A replica of the physical body, but more subtle and tenuous. It penetrates every nerve, fibre and cell of the physical organism and is constantly in a supersensitive state of oscillation and pulsation. The psychic faculty within the astral body is impressionable to extra-sensory vibrations. The astrological concept is that of a magnetic field wherein the individual does most of his thinking, and from which they draw impressions by way of interpreting changes in the field due to cosmic radiation.[/quote]

    I watched this a little stoned last night and it totally blew me away. For a few minutes i totally understood how Desmonds timeline and consciousness were fragmented and out of sync, that bit were Des walked from Penny’s flat were mixed in with him while the phone was ringing in 2004, he wasnt waking up after hours of ‘dreaming’ or picking up items that were there just a second ago before he ‘shifted’ he was ok. I realised that his timeline and consciousness were synchronising.
    But then i thought a little more, and maybe his flashback to 1996 was just a way of remembering pennys number, and all this time phasing or travelling is just how Desmond remembers things, how his memory is arranged, but i preferred the first realisation, and yes, it was some good shit.

  450. DdoubleO says:

    I also think that as far as Desmond is concerned, he was going out with penny, didn’t marry her, joined the army then started having some crazy vision of the future. Luckily he believed it was important so didn’t end up in an asylum or dead, and his memory is complete from his freak-out on the helicopter onwards. So his memory has an 8 year gap! All the bizarre decisions he has made throughout his life could have been as a result of this time/conscious paradox. Can you imagine how he will feel when he is told of how he has filled this time? After the army you became a monk, then you got a boat and tried to sail around the world. You got marooned on an island and effectively imprisoned in a bunker where you had to press a button every 108 minutes until someone comes along to relieve you of your duty. You did this for 3 years, then you didnt one day and you were exposed to levels of electromagnetism that by all rights should have killed you. For a short time you could see the future and tried to stop a young man from meeting his inevitable death, then you began to literally time travel. One minute you were on the island, the next you’d fallen off a ladder whilst still in a relationship with penny, but you thought it was 2004, and if i carry on and tell you absolutely everything, you wont believe me, infact, you will have a brain aneurysm.

    i had to write it all down to fully understand that myself, and if i’m totally honest i’m not sure i do. All i do know is that Desmonds story is absolutely outstanding, and yes, i shed a little tear when he finally called her 8 years later, or 10 minutes, i just still dont know anymore.

  451. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190077"]
    I feel that there are clues in the whispers that may pertain to this episode. I have to collect my thoughts and do some research so it doesn’t sound like babble…
    [/quote]
    Super.
    ————-
    For those that aren’t too familiar with the Island Whispers. Some really techno smart guys deconstruct the whispers into their original separate sound tracks. The last time I checked there are normally 8 separate sound tracks or channels overlayed throughout the whisper. Those tracks associate with different areas in each of your speakers. When we hear the whispers, it is different conversations piled on top of one other, no single conversation is audible. The guys that deconstruct and transcribe each separate channel find some great ‘hidden’ clues.

    Am I close Hammer?

  452. nicunurse says:

    Meathead wrote:

    Is what Desmond had the same as what happened to Patchy when passing through the fence. Is that a connection….[/quote]
    Now THAT is interesting…they never explained how he got throught that fence…and what kind of fence is it? electromagnetic? Is Patchy an adept time traveler?

  453. TheoryNut says:

    Here’s another possibility:

    Jack’s constant – Christian Shepherd

    Hurley’s constant – the mental institution

    John’s constant – his father

    Kate’s constant – her crime

    Ben’s constant – Richard Alpert

    Sayeed- Nadia

    Des – Penny

    don’t know what to do with Claire, Jin, Sun, & Sawyer…

  454. TheoryNut says:

    I say that Richard Alpert could be Ben’s constant, as he first met Ben as a child, we know for sure Richard moves freely off the island, that is why he is able to recrut Juliette. Seem’s that Ben has also been able to go to and from the island. I don’t know… just a rambling thought on my part. I hope they do some more with Richard Alpert soon, his character is so intriguing to me, just like Jacob’s.

  455. TheoryNut says:

    [quote comment="189936"]Question (sorry if this has been addressed).

    Is what Desmond had the same as what happened to Patchy when passing through the fence. Is that a connection….[/quote]

    Interesting, also when Miss Clue and I forgot who else get’s killed in that episode. That’s why they weren’t afraid because they knew how to move their conscious/soul to another time dimension. What is intriguing… we know what the Losties do with their “dead” they bury them. However, I don’t recall what the Other’s do with their dead in recent episodes, only know about the big pit from the Purge.

  456. TheoryNut says:

    So maybe Miss Clue is still alive along with Patchy. More clues to come hopefully :)

  457. Found says:

    Ben & Richard leaving the Island is very different from the type of travel Des and Minkowski were experiencing. I believe that there are two different types of travel being done on the Island. The one is “conscious” traveling and the other is teleportation. Obviously Ben and Alpert would have to have their entire physical bodies transported on & off of the island to do they types of things that they were doing. (“The Magic Box”). I believe that the research began with the natural effects of the island causing the conscious travel and that they were trying to harness this effect for their own use by expanding the effect to become teleportation. Remember, the Rabbit experiment produced another Rabbit in the same time frame, not just the conscious time shifting of Eloise.

  458. Gumby1019 says:

    [quote comment="189033"]How come Sahid can fix anything??? That commincations tower on the boat was pretty messed up, and how does penelope have the same phone number for 8 years, and if she did then how she gonna give him the real number after that crazy story….This show is not making any sense now or maybe it was just this episode… if i was in charge i would blow up the whole island and be done for it…Obama for president 08….[/quote]

    Why do you find it hard to believe that she’s had the same phone number for 8 years? My parents have had the same number for 34 years! And Sayid…he’s well trained. A military commando and electronics specialist.

  459. intolost says:

    I don’t recall what the Other’s do with their dead in recent episodes, only know about the big pit from the Purge.

    They float them out to sea on a raft.

  460. intolost says:

    That’s what they did with the girl Sun shot dead on the boat. Dang, almost every single lostie is a murderer now that I think of it! Except Claire, Des, and Hurley. Is Jack? I think not. I can’t remember.

  461. intolost says:

    Actually, Hurley is a murderer, too. He ran over those guys on the beach!

  462. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190112"]
    That’s what they did with the girl Sun shot dead on the boat. Dang, almost every single lostie is a murderer now that I think of it! Except Claire, Des, and Hurley. Is Jack? I think not. I can’t remember.
    [/quote]
    – Desmond followed his hatch-buddy (Kelvin) to his boat, attacked and accidentally killed him by slamming his head against the rocks.
    – Claire’s mom (Carole) is in a permanent coma (brain dead?) after Claire said she hated her, wished she were dead and wrecked their auto.
    – Jack’s a surgeon – draw your own conclusion. He did forfeit Shannon’s fathers life in order to save (future wife) Sarah.

  463. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190090"]Meathead wrote:

    Is what Desmond had the same as what happened to Patchy when passing through the fence. Is that a connection….[/quote]
    Now THAT is interesting…they never explained how he got throught that fence…and what kind of fence is it? electromagnetic? Is Patchy an adept time traveler?[/quote]

    I think that Patchy said the sonic system was not “set to kill” or turned all the way up. Something like that.

  464. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190089"][quote comment="190077"]
    I feel that there are clues in the whispers that may pertain to this episode. I have to collect my thoughts and do some research so it doesn’t sound like babble…
    [/quote]
    Super.
    ————-
    For those that aren’t too familiar with the Island Whispers. Some really techno smart guys deconstruct the whispers into their original separate sound tracks. The last time I checked there are normally 8 separate sound tracks or channels overlayed throughout the whisper. Those tracks associate with different areas in each of your speakers. When we hear the whispers, it is different conversations piled on top of one other, no single conversation is audible. The guys that deconstruct and transcribe each separate channel find some great ‘hidden’ clues.

    Am I close Hammer?[/quote]

    My 2 cents, talk about the whispers would not be spoilers because it is information given to us in the show, it’s just hard to decipher or understand. Plus from my reading of the whispers, I don’t see any foreshadowing done by them. I would like to know what some of the ideas are concerning them.

  465. LoveLost says:

    I have read most of the posts and have not seen anyone comment on Penny’s comment to Des – “I talked to your friend Charlie. I knew you were still alive.”

  466. DocH says:

    Meathead then NicNurse commented:
    …they never explained how he got throught that fence…and what kind of fence is it? electromagnetic? Is Patchy an adept time traveler?
    then RGS replied:
    I think that Patchy said the sonic system was not “set to kill” or turned all the way up. Something like that.

    Yep. Mikhail fried in 3-12 Par Avion, appeared in two eps, then explained in 3-20 Man-B-T-Curtain as he caught up with Ben on the way to the temple.

    [Out in the jungle, a man runs. Mikhail sprints into the Others camp]

    MIKHAIL: Where is Ben!!! Where is he!!!

    [Ben steps out of his tent]

    BEN: I thought you were dead.

    MIKHAIL: I’m fortunate the pylons were not set to a lethal level.

    [Locke exits the tent too]

    MIKHAIL: What is he doing here?

    BEN: It’s all right.

    MIKHAIL: He’s the one who tried to kill me!

    BEN: He’s with us now. Where have you been Mikhail?

    MIKHAIL: I encountered several of his people in the jungle. They had an injured woman with them. Apparently she had just parachuted onto the Island.

    BEN: What!

    MIKHAIL: Her helo crashed into water. She says her ship is approximately 130 clicks to the West of us. She has a radio telephone.

  467. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="190098"]Ben & Richard leaving the Island is very different from the type of travel Des and Minkowski were experiencing. I believe that there are two different types of travel being done on the Island. The one is “conscious” traveling and the other is teleportation. Obviously Ben and Alpert would have to have their entire physical bodies transported on & off of the island to do they types of things that they were doing. (“The Magic Box”). I believe that the research began with the natural effects of the island causing the conscious travel and that they were trying to harness this effect for their own use by expanding the effect to become teleportation. [/quote]

    I think that you are onto something here. Astral projection, a form of teleportation, occurs when electromagnetic forces and an unprepared individual leave the island through some kind of energy portal. Ben and Alpert (and possibly Faraday) have mastered astral projection and are able to teleport their physical body using an advanced technique via the same portal. I know the whispers are important, as are many clues we’ve been given along the way. I think the whispers may be a form of the future/past characters visiting themselves. However, since “the past cannot be changed” they are merely whispers. Things that can manifest themselves without altering inevitable outcomes can appear in more visable and clear forms–such as Kate’s horse. There was a post written at the beginning of this episode mentioning Jack’s location at the beginning of the first episode….how he was removed from the group but got up and knew where to run to assist the others, etc. Perhaps this is where Jack goes back to…to “the beginning” as we know it. The story is just being told out of order, from the future we have yet to see. Kate may not want to go back because of Aaron and her life after the island. She has endured enough and is unwilling to return, possibly risking her freedom and her child. Maybe you can only project yourself into the past/future with your mind, but if you teleport backwards you have to stay in the past. Jack needs to re-do the events “for the greater good”….whatever that may be. Just a thought.

  468. CAG says:

    I’ve only read about 300 of the nearly 500 posts here, so if anyone has said this, please forgive me. But has anyone conjectured weather the time delay gets worse as you veer farther off the 305° azimuth? Also, I think maybe Widmore after he bought the journal, found the course the ship was taking and sent Desmond on that course for his round-the-world race.

  469. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="190096"][quote comment="189936"]Question (sorry if this has been addressed).

    Is what Desmond had the same as what happened to Patchy when passing through the fence. Is that a connection….[/quote]

    Interesting, also when Miss Clue and I forgot who else get’s killed in that episode. That’s why they weren’t afraid because they knew how to move their conscious/soul to another time dimension. What is intriguing… we know what the Losties do with their “dead” they bury them. However, I don’t recall what the Other’s do with their dead in recent episodes, only know about the big pit from the Purge.[/quote]
    After the losties killed Mr Friendly and his cohorts Juliette was digging a grave in the sand.

  470. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190109"][quote comment="189033"]How come Sahid can fix anything??? That commincations tower on the boat was pretty messed up, and how does penelope have the same phone number for 8 years, and if she did then how she gonna give him the real number after that crazy story….This show is not making any sense now or maybe it was just this episode… if i was in charge i would blow up the whole island and be done for it…Obama for president 08….[/quote]

    Why do you find it hard to believe that she’s had the same phone number for 8 years? My parents have had the same number for 34 years! And Sayid…he’s well trained. A military commando and electronics specialist.[/quote]

    Couple of minor points. We aren’t sure how long it took Sayid to fix the phone, he could have been working on it for upwards of 2 hours (but then it would seem folks would be looking for them) as Des had his conscious travel while Sayid was fixing the phone.

    A couple of folks thought it was strange that Widmore (who I’m not so sure is a bad guy) left the faucet running. He may just not like touching things in the bathroom. He turns on the faucet by using a hand towel, and then leaves the water running for the “lowly” Desmond to touch and turn off. They don’t show him touching the bathroom door upon exiting either.

  471. nicunurse says:

    [quote comment="190215"][quote comment="190109"][quote comment="189033"]How come Sahid can fix anything??? That commincations tower on the boat was pretty messed up, and how does penelope have the same phone number for 8 years, and if she did then how she gonna give him the real number after that crazy story….This show is not making any sense now or maybe it was just this episode… if i was in charge i would blow up the whole island and be done for it…Obama for president 08….[/quote]

    Why do you find it hard to believe that she’s had the same phone number for 8 years? My parents have had the same number for 34 years! And Sayid…he’s well trained. A military commando and electronics specialist.[/quote]

    Couple of minor points. We aren’t sure how long it took Sayid to fix the phone, he could have been working on it for upwards of 2 hours (but then it would seem folks would be looking for them) as Des had his conscious travel while Sayid was fixing the phone.

    A couple of folks thought it was strange that Widmore (who I’m not so sure is a bad guy) left the faucet running. He may just not like touching things in the bathroom. He turns on the faucet by using a hand towel, and then leaves the water running for the “lowly” Desmond to touch and turn off. They don’t show him touching the bathroom door upon exiting either.[/quote]
    I noticed that too…is trying to be sure he doesn’t leave fingerprints? Is he a germaphobe?

  472. Rita says:

    [quote comment="189837"][quote comment="189835"][quote comment="189832"]DocH (or anyone else) do you think that talking about the whispers would spoilerish?[/quote]

    Well, as usual – if it’s information that is both factual (canonical) and given before it’s released officially, then yes – it would be a spoiler. But speculation-wise, I don’t think anything is spoiler-ish?

    I was actually re-thinking the whispers tonight, in relation to them being fragments/voices, etc – bouncing back and forth in time. It’s a loose explanation, but starting to make more sense…[/quote]
    Yes, I really think that they are hints about the CONCIOUS travel/phasing. But since they are in the actual episodes, do we get liscense?[/quote]
    Go for it. I would like to hear what you have to say about them.

  473. Lostie says:

    [quote comment="190088"]
    i had to write it all down to fully understand that myself, and if i’m totally honest i’m not sure i do. All i do know is that Desmonds story is absolutely outstanding, and yes, i shed a little tear when he finally called her 8 years later, or 10 minutes, i just still dont know anymore.[/quote]

    I’m thinking along the same line here. So the stories of Des meeting Daniel at Oxford, the rat finishing the maze, Des talking to Penny at her new home DID occur in 1996. But in 1996, they might not have a clear understanding of why they were doing it. They just did it. Now, in 2004, on the freighter, Des regains his memory of what actually happened in 1996 and remembers Penny’s number. Indeed, Des has a memory gap of 8 years and during that period he was doing things he couldn’t understand why he was doing them. Really cool!!!

  474. jake says:

    [quote comment="190091"]Here’s another possibility:

    Jack’s constant – Christian Shepherd

    Hurley’s constant – the mental institution

    John’s constant – his father

    Kate’s constant – her crime

    Ben’s constant – Richard Alpert

    Sayeed- Nadia

    Des – Penny

    don’t know what to do with Claire, Jin, Sun, & Sawyer…[/quote]

    Whether or not any of the above are correct constants, its a good point that the constant does NOT have to be a person. Also, its not a given that all people who leave the island will need a constant, is it? Maybe Sayid and Frank will need a constant at some point, but maybe not, right?
    Based on what we see in the flash forwards, Claire didn’t find her constant if she needed one, because it seems she didn’t leave at all or didn’t survive when she left.

  475. DocH says:

    re: Communications rooms destroyed, who fixes what how fast, who unlocks the door when they get out the infirmary, Minkowski croaking on cue.

    It just hit me. The whole freighter is like the rat maze that Eloise ran. Come on! Two thugs with nothing better to do than watch the two newbie islanders… and the thugs always magically disappear long enough for Des & Sayid to start to fumble, fix, plot, connive, etc…

    I think there are some VERY smart folks on that boat, Abbadon hires like Naomi, and they are watching Des & Sayid every second, assessing the skillsets they display, watching the main lab rat the closest – Desmond.

  476. Rita says:

    [quote comment="190134"]I have read most of the posts and have not seen anyone comment on Penny’s comment to Des – “I talked to your friend Charlie. I knew you were still alive.”[/quote]
    She talked to him just before he died, after he turned off the radio jamming device. He mentioned Desmond to her then so she knew he was there and was alive.

  477. Rita says:

    [quote comment="190244"]re: Communications rooms destroyed, who fixes what how fast, who unlocks the door when they get out the infirmary, Minkowski croaking on cue.

    It just hit me. The whole freighter is like the rat maze that Eloise ran. Come on! Two thugs with nothing better to do than watch the two newbie islanders… and the thugs always magically disappear long enough for Des & Sayid to start to fumble, fix, plot, connive, etc…

    I think there are some VERY smart folks on that boat, Abbadon hires like Naomi, and they are watching Des & Sayid every second, assessing the skillsets they display, watching the main lab rat the closest – Desmond.[/quote]
    It struck me that way too, and the whole bit about the whispers may support this. Not sure how yet, but I am working on it. Would still LOVE to hear more thoughts about the whispers.

  478. KillerR says:

    the black rock may have been used in the same way as the frieghter the fact that it has dynamite on it is very interesting

  479. Kelly says:

    Long time lurker. Quick thought…I think we should pay attention to the people bidding on the Black Rock book. They are probably on Sayid’s hit list in the futire.

  480. rich.bow says:

    kates constant the toy plane?

  481. Joel says:

    [quote comment="189673"]Joel–comment 262–The second best line hast to be when Penny finally answers Des’s call at the end and says something like, “Desmond,…. is it really you?” You could feel the despair of her years of searching for him become a sort of euphoria and a big, dark cloud was lifted off of her shoulders, and off of his too. What a terrific moment that was.[/quote]

    Thanks, Deangoodes, for replying. You are right. That was a beautiful scene. These actors are fantastic.

  482. Trixanna says:

    Rich.bow #481
    If, in fact, Kate needs a “constant” then it certainly could be the toy plane!!! I am just not convinced that everybody needs a constant.

    Everybody has such great ideas, I love visiting this blog! You are all so much more creative than I am!

  483. JGut says:

    Hey, I’ve been reading this blog for the past two full seasons, but first time posting.

    Sorry if this was posted already – I read through most of the comments but didn’t see anything on it….

    One thing I noticed and found interesting was that the flash-back, flash-forward effect that Desmond suffered from in this episode was different from what Minkowski suffered. Once desmond flashed back to 1996, and then to the helicoper, he didn’t remember anything from 1996 to the present moment, and freaked out in the helicopter and on the boat. He didn’t remember Sayid or anything from the island.

    Minkowski, on the other hand, remembered everything about when he took the boat to see the island, and then came back and started having these episodes of departure to another time. Why could Minkowski recall the present but Desmond could not? Does it matter? Maybe it was just something to make the storyline for this particular episode more interesting or convenient, but I thought it was strange and wondered why the difference between Desmond and Minkowski’s experience. Will Desmond be back to normal now that he made contact with his constant? i.e. will he now begin to remember everything that happened between 1996 at the present time?

  484. Hammer says:

    I hope this does not disappoint and is not over hyped, but this is what I think the whispers are clues to:

    First let me say that it is my personal belief that when we die, our conscious mind does not just go away. I feel that it is an energy that goes somewhere (not necessarily a religeous thing).

    Now that we are lead to believe that the concious can time travel, let’s assume for the purposes of my theory that the interpretations of the whispers are correct.

    It seems to me that when people die on(or even off) the island, their concious mind is being held at the island. The whispers are of the “dead”. I use the example of when Shannon and Sayid are in the jungle, the whispers include words that can be assumed to be from Boone.

    (“She likes this guy” “Dying sucks””Hi sis” “Here she comes, here she comes””She drives me crazy”) These things that would be consistent with what Boone would say.

    Then there was this one (Man (Sounds like Christian Shephard): “Sarah, Is somebody coming?”) I believe that Sarah is the name that C. Shephard called Ana Lucia , so it is at least debatable that both Christian and Ana Lucia are in the whispers…and dead.

    Another possible example is Eko’s brother Yemie could be the one who says this (He’s been in a plane crash””Are you sure?”
    “I know what it’s like for a plane to crash”)

    Now let’s add Charlie. Though we haven’t had him in the whispers yet, he APPEARS to Hugo. We are lead to believe that it is because Hugo is mentally unstable, but I have something that may dispute that theory. (Female Voice- “Maybe we should just talk to him”Male Voice- “No if he see us it will ruin everything”Male Voice- “What did he see”Female Voice- “They could help us”) It seems that the whisperers can show themselves if they so desire, which Charlie did. Not to mention that Ben’s mother showed herself during whispers and of course we are lead to believe that Jacob(who I assume is dead) shows himself to Ben and talked to Locke.

    Now this is where I get into real speculation. I think that the smoke monster is actually an accumulation of the concious of all the dead folks, and it is their objective to protect the island, it’s powers and it’s secrets. Since we know that electromagnetics cause side effects that include concious time travel, and we also know that the sonic fence is used to keep smokey away from the others base camp, I think that it is at least debatable.

    I hope that I made sense. I am ready for the debunking. And again, I hope it didn’t disappoint.

  485. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190291"]Hey, I’ve been reading this blog for the past two full seasons, but first time posting.

    Sorry if this was posted already – I read through most of the comments but didn’t see anything on it….

    One thing I noticed and found interesting was that the flash-back, flash-forward effect that Desmond suffered from in this episode was different from what Minkowski suffered. Once desmond flashed back to 1996, and then to the helicoper, he didn’t remember anything from 1996 to the present moment, and freaked out in the helicopter and on the boat. He didn’t remember Sayid or anything from the island.

    Minkowski, on the other hand, remembered everything about when he took the boat to see the island, and then came back and started having these episodes of departure to another time. Why could Minkowski recall the present but Desmond could not? Does it matter? Maybe it was just something to make the storyline for this particular episode more interesting or convenient, but I thought it was strange and wondered why the difference between Desmond and Minkowski’s experience. Will Desmond be back to normal now that he made contact with his constant? i.e. will he now begin to remember everything that happened between 1996 at the present time?[/quote]

    Actually Daniel said that traveling to the island effects everyone differently. He did not know the exact cause. So perhaps Minkowski had a different effect than Des. Also when Minkowski referenced Brandon, he said Brandon went crazy, though presumably, he does not consider himself crazy. At a minimum it means that the effect on Brandon was different than it was on Minkowski because he died much quicker.

    It also could mean the “sickness” that effected Rousseau’s crew could be any number of things, as I am not so sure it was a mere time travel/conscious/ unsure of how to deal with it, IF she had to kill everyone, as they would have died on their own.

  486. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190298"]I hope this does not disappoint and is not over hyped, but this is what I think the whispers are clues to:

    First let me say that it is my personal belief that when we die, our conscious mind does not just go away. I feel that it is an energy that goes somewhere (not necessarily a religeous thing).

    Now that we are lead to believe that the concious can time travel, let’s assume for the purposes of my theory that the interpretations of the whispers are correct.

    It seems to me that when people die on(or even off) the island, their concious mind is being held at the island. The whispers are of the “dead”. I use the example of when Shannon and Sayid are in the jungle, the whispers include words that can be assumed to be from Boone.

    (“She likes this guy” “Dying sucks””Hi sis” “Here she comes, here she comes””She drives me crazy”) These things that would be consistent with what Boone would say.

    Then there was this one (Man (Sounds like Christian Shephard): “Sarah, Is somebody coming?”) I believe that Sarah is the name that C. Shephard called Ana Lucia , so it is at least debatable that both Christian and Ana Lucia are in the whispers…and dead.

    Another possible example is Eko’s brother Yemie could be the one who says this (He’s been in a plane crash””Are you sure?”
    “I know what it’s like for a plane to crash”)

    Now let’s add Charlie. Though we haven’t had him in the whispers yet, he APPEARS to Hugo. We are lead to believe that it is because Hugo is mentally unstable, but I have something that may dispute that theory. (Female Voice- “Maybe we should just talk to him”Male Voice- “No if he see us it will ruin everything”Male Voice- “What did he see”Female Voice- “They could help us”) It seems that the whisperers can show themselves if they so desire, which Charlie did. Not to mention that Ben’s mother showed herself during whispers and of course we are lead to believe that Jacob(who I assume is dead) shows himself to Ben and talked to Locke.

    Now this is where I get into real speculation. I think that the smoke monster is actually an accumulation of the concious of all the dead folks, and it is their objective to protect the island, it’s powers and it’s secrets. Since we know that electromagnetics cause side effects that include concious time travel, and we also know that the sonic fence is used to keep smokey away from the others base camp, I think that it is at least debatable.

    I hope that I made sense. I am ready for the debunking. And again, I hope it didn’t disappoint.[/quote]

    Lol, not over-hyped at all. This is good stuff, and as plausible or more so, than any theory I have seen.

    Did you come across a whisper sequence, (I believe it was b4 Ben’s mother appeared?) but the whisperer said something about, “I am your prisoner…and you are mine…crazy laughter.” What do you think of that one?

    I am sorry if I can’t recall when it exactly occurred, maybe when I get back from going out to eat, I can find it if you don’t know what I’m referencing.

  487. Taranton says:

    The time differentiation thing puzzles me a little. In an earlier episode, Faraday records that a probe sent from the boat takes longer to arrive at the island than expected. Does this mean that time is moving more slowly on the island? If so, how many days have they really been there? What a hundred “island days” in “real” time?

  488. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190307"]
    Did you come across a whisper sequence, (I believe it was b4 Ben’s mother appeared?) but the whisperer said something about, “I am your prisoner…and you are mine…crazy laughter.” What do you think of that one?

    I am sorry if I can’t recall when it exactly occurred, maybe when I get back from going out to eat, I can find it if you don’t know what I’m referencing.[/quote]It was when Ben was little and talking to his dead mother. IMO it was Jacob talking to Ben for the first time because the sequence was Ben heard the whisper and told his dead mother he was scared and that’s when she said it will be alright.

  489. whiteroom says:

    Now that time travel is playing into the plot, do you think when future Jack is telling Kate they need to go “back,” he could actually be talking about going back in time to get back to the island?

  490. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190340"]Now that time travel is playing into the plot, do you think when future Jack is telling Kate they need to go “back,” he could actually be talking about going back in time to get back to the island?[/quote]
    Or are they one in the same?

  491. Rick says:

    I’m surprised nobody has commented on Killer’s comment (#364). The carving on Eko’s cane told the correct bearing to the boat. Do we think this is a coincidence (305 referencing something else) or that Eko was literally trying to direct Locke to the boat? If the latter, how does he gain that knowledge?

  492. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190351"]I’m surprised nobody has commented on Killer’s comment (#364). The carving on Eko’s cane told the correct bearing to the boat. Do we think this is a coincidence (305 referencing something else) or that Eko was literally trying to direct Locke to the boat? If the latter, how does he gain that knowledge?[/quote]
    I believe the latter, and of course I think he knows this because as you may recall, it seemed as he getting more “in touch” with island. I think the info was being passed by the concious travelers. :)

  493. bb says:

    idk if anyone has commented about this but the doctor, ray, looks exactly like mikhalil…
    bens spy???

  494. TheoryNut says:

    [quote comment="190298"]I hope this does not disappoint and is not over hyped, but this is what I think the whispers are clues to:

    First let me say that it is my personal belief that when we die, our conscious mind does not just go away. I feel that it is an energy that goes somewhere (not necessarily a religeous thing).

    Now that we are lead to believe that the concious can time travel, let’s assume for the purposes of my theory that the interpretations of the whispers are correct.

    It seems to me that when people die on(or even off) the island, their concious mind is being held at the island. The whispers are of the “dead”. I use the example of when Shannon and Sayid are in the jungle, the whispers include words that can be assumed to be from Boone.

    (“She likes this guy” “Dying sucks””Hi sis” “Here she comes, here she comes””She drives me crazy”) These things that would be consistent with what Boone would say.

    Then there was this one (Man (Sounds like Christian Shephard): “Sarah, Is somebody coming?”) I believe that Sarah is the name that C. Shephard called Ana Lucia , so it is at least debatable that both Christian and Ana Lucia are in the whispers…and dead.

    Another possible example is Eko’s brother Yemie could be the one who says this (He’s been in a plane crash””Are you sure?”
    “I know what it’s like for a plane to crash”)

    Now let’s add Charlie. Though we haven’t had him in the whispers yet, he APPEARS to Hugo. We are lead to believe that it is because Hugo is mentally unstable, but I have something that may dispute that theory. (Female Voice- “Maybe we should just talk to him”Male Voice- “No if he see us it will ruin everything”Male Voice- “What did he see”Female Voice- “They could help us”) It seems that the whisperers can show themselves if they so desire, which Charlie did. Not to mention that Ben’s mother showed herself during whispers and of course we are lead to believe that Jacob(who I assume is dead) shows himself to Ben and talked to Locke.

    Now this is where I get into real speculation. I think that the smoke monster is actually an accumulation of the concious of all the dead folks, and it is their objective to protect the island, it’s powers and it’s secrets. Since we know that electromagnetics cause side effects that include concious time travel, and we also know that the sonic fence is used to keep smokey away from the others base camp, I think that it is at least debatable.

    I hope that I made sense. I am ready for the debunking. And again, I hope it didn’t disappoint.[/quote]

    Hammer! You are definately onto something, great posts as usual. Thanks for such great insight!

  495. TheoryNut says:

    [quote comment="190415"]idk if anyone has commented about this but the doctor, ray, looks exactly like mikhalil…
    bens spy???[/quote]

    Nope… Marc Vann plays The Doctor (see IMDB.com)

    Mikhail is played by Andrew Divoff. They do look similar though. It would have been interesting if they were one in the same.

  496. treddingwater says:

    Remember folks Penny DOES see Desmond again AFTER she gives him her phone number…..remember…..Outside the stadium where he was training for the sailboat race and meets Jake….mmmmm so could Desmond also be Jake’s constant?

    Or maybe Desmond is OUR constant. After all we are flashing back to older episodes to connect the newer ones. Without Desmond our minds would blow and we would go crazy- if they havn’t already :) After all we have been searching for 3 years for the island just like Penny.

    Ben sells antiques that are on the island. In 1996 Ben was still on the island with the submarine. He could have gone to the black rock to get the journal (or have gotten it from the others) sail to shore in the submarine and auction off the journal and other stuff.

    TIIL

  497. TheoryNut says:

    Okay… I have to keep mentioning this auction scene. I just looked at the screencaps. There are two, one of the front of auction and one behind. The asian lady sitting behind Mr. Whidmore from the front view has a blonde lady sitting behind her. Directly across the aisle from the blond is my Maybe Ben, who is sitting behind the old lady with short hair with lace collar. The old lace lady is sitting next to Mr. Ponytail. When you look at the behind auction shot, both the Maybe Ben and Mysterious Blonde lady are Gone. Someone please check this out. Maybe they just screwed up and didn’t put everyone back in place during the lunch break. But there is some wacky Musical Auction chairs going on and people are there in one scene and gone in the next!

  498. TheoryNut says:

    screen cap site:

    losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

  499. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190310"]The time differentiation thing puzzles me a little. In an earlier episode, Faraday records that a probe sent from the boat takes longer to arrive at the island than expected. Does this mean that time is moving more slowly on the island? If so, how many days have they really been there? What a hundred “island days” in “real” time?[/quote]

    Actually to me, it seems the only time discrepancy occurs in going to and from the island. In the island “bubble.” If time were going slower or faster on the island, when Des calls Penny it would either be much later in the calendar, or much earlier, because the “bubble” discrepancy is so great that it would have to be extrapolated one way or the other.

  500. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190316"][quote comment="190307"]
    Did you come across a whisper sequence, (I believe it was b4 Ben’s mother appeared?) but the whisperer said something about, “I am your prisoner…and you are mine…crazy laughter.” What do you think of that one?

    I am sorry if I can’t recall when it exactly occurred, maybe when I get back from going out to eat, I can find it if you don’t know what I’m referencing.[/quote]It was when Ben was little and talking to his dead mother. IMO it was Jacob talking to Ben for the first time because the sequence was Ben heard the whisper and told his dead mother he was scared and that’s when she said it will be alright.[/quote]

    I was kinda thinking that too, but it just seems like that whisperer seems to be in control, and there’s something that bothers me concerning how Ben interacted with Jacob. I will stew on it some more.

  501. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190351"]I’m surprised nobody has commented on Killer’s comment (#364). The carving on Eko’s cane told the correct bearing to the boat. Do we think this is a coincidence (305 referencing something else) or that Eko was literally trying to direct Locke to the boat? If the latter, how does he gain that knowledge?[/quote]

    That is a strange etching. 1) that is not how one normally references the Bible, 2) that scripture is largely irrelevant to what is going on, at the same token, 3)was the boat already there? Why does he give a bearing to get to the boat by air (305), when there is no method to fly there?

  502. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190443"][quote comment="190351"]I’m surprised nobody has commented on Killer’s comment (#364). The carving on Eko’s cane told the correct bearing to the boat. Do we think this is a coincidence (305 referencing something else) or that Eko was literally trying to direct Locke to the boat? If the latter, how does he gain that knowledge?[/quote]

    That is a strange etching. 1) that is not how one normally references the Bible, 2) that scripture is largely irrelevant to what is going on, at the same token, 3)was the boat already there? Why does he give a bearing to get to the boat by air (305), when there is no method to fly there?[/quote]
    Maybe the boat wasn’t there yet, maybe the boat just happens to be at the opening to get in/out. The differnt bearings are given to get out from a certain point?

  503. Rita says:

    Hammer thanks for your thoughts on the whispers. I think you are definitely onto something (although I disagree with your personal beliefs). Your idea makes the most sense to me so far. LOTS of things seem to fit.
    I had a thought during the night that I couldn’t wait to post (almost got up at 3a.m. to post it): When Desmond goes back to 1996 and meets Daniel, Dan tells him “you can’t change the future” but then he immediately DOES change the future. Think about Eloise’s future: He put her through the maze, which she could run, because he said he was going to teach her to run it in the next hour. She had learned to run it IN THE FUTURE because he hadn’t taught her yet as of the present. HOWEVER, she died BEFORE he actually DID teach her. HER future was therefore changed. She was NEVER taught to run the maze. Are you with me so far? So, since Eloise’s future had been changed, it follows that ANYONE’S future could also be changed. I therefore believe that Daniel had NOT met Desmond until 2004 and that by sending Des back to meet him in 1996, He changed the future, at least Desmond’s future (and his – Daniel’s)and possibly everyone’s. Desmond remembers everything now and his nose is no longer bleeding. I think future episodes will show that Daniel is different too, now that both of them have their constant. Feedback please, I believe this idea opens up some interesting possibilites. Thanks.

  504. Hammer says:

    Rita, thanks. This future changing thing has me confused too. I agree that going to the past and altering events to ensure something happens in the present is actually changing the future.

  505. Meathead says:

    So are all the flashbacks and flashforwards really each character traveling in time and reaching a constant of some kind to bring them back to the present?

    How come Lost gets more cool each episode?

  506. Hammer says:

    Some things I left out of my original post while waiting to see some reactions:

    This reinforces that the whisperer are smokey. These were whispered after smokey throw Eko to the ground:

    “It’s over ”
    “The black man” (?)
    “(unknown)”
    “Right now / Right here”
    “Locke”
    “Eko”
    “(unknown)”
    “What happened”
    “Shhhh”
    “What’s happening”
    “Now we got his… / I don’t want to kill him”
    “What just happened”
    “What’d he say”
    “Help me up”
    “Is he following?”

    More:

    “You have to believe it’s me, Nikki” was whispered when Hugo was at the cabin, long after Nikki died. It is either Nikki whispering or someone whispering to Nikki.

    Man: “Come to me, I need you. You’re an alchemist and uh…” also whispered when Hugo was at the cabin. I believe someone was whispering to Dr. Artz.

    “Naomi. I don’t know that name” was whispered to Locke when he was getting ready to shoot himself. I take it that after this Loce was told by Walt or the whisperers that she needs to be eliminated.

  507. Missy says:

    [quote comment="190298"]I hope this does not disappoint and is not over hyped, but this is what I think the whispers are clues to:

    First let me say that it is my personal belief that when we die, our conscious mind does not just go away. I feel that it is an energy that goes somewhere (not necessarily a religeous thing).

    Now that we are lead to believe that the concious can time travel, let’s assume for the purposes of my theory that the interpretations of the whispers are correct.

    It seems to me that when people die on(or even off) the island, their concious mind is being held at the island. The whispers are of the “dead”. I use the example of when Shannon and Sayid are in the jungle, the whispers include words that can be assumed to be from Boone.

    (“She likes this guy” “Dying sucks””Hi sis” “Here she comes, here she comes””She drives me crazy”) These things that would be consistent with what Boone would say.

    Then there was this one (Man (Sounds like Christian Shephard): “Sarah, Is somebody coming?”) I believe that Sarah is the name that C. Shephard called Ana Lucia , so it is at least debatable that both Christian and Ana Lucia are in the whispers…and dead.

    Another possible example is Eko’s brother Yemie could be the one who says this (He’s been in a plane crash””Are you sure?”
    “I know what it’s like for a plane to crash”)

    Now let’s add Charlie. Though we haven’t had him in the whispers yet, he APPEARS to Hugo. We are lead to believe that it is because Hugo is mentally unstable, but I have something that may dispute that theory. (Female Voice- “Maybe we should just talk to him”Male Voice- “No if he see us it will ruin everything”Male Voice- “What did he see”Female Voice- “They could help us”) It seems that the whisperers can show themselves if they so desire, which Charlie did. Not to mention that Ben’s mother showed herself during whispers and of course we are lead to believe that Jacob(who I assume is dead) shows himself to Ben and talked to Locke.

    Now this is where I get into real speculation. I think that the smoke monster is actually an accumulation of the concious of all the dead folks, and it is their objective to protect the island, it’s powers and it’s secrets. Since we know that electromagnetics cause side effects that include concious time travel, and we also know that the sonic fence is used to keep smokey away from the others base camp, I think that it is at least debatable.

    I hope that I made sense. I am ready for the debunking. And again, I hope it didn’t disappoint.[/quote]

    I agree 100% with you on the whispers. After reading up on all the whispers on lostpedia that’s totally the conclusion I came to.

    I’m still not sure about the smoke monster. To me it seems like there are two different pieces to it – one that’s smoke and floats around, the other is the clear thing that sounds like a giant robot, but can’t been seen.

    I think they might be two seperate things. Hey – do you think the robot drawings on Aaron’s bedroom wall coul be the thing from the island? Maybe because of some electromagnetic force, the robots can make themsleves invisible. Is that a totally off the wall idea?

  508. Missy says:

    [quote comment="190316"][quote comment="190307"]
    Did you come across a whisper sequence, (I believe it was b4 Ben’s mother appeared?) but the whisperer said something about, “I am your prisoner…and you are mine…crazy laughter.” What do you think of that one?

    I am sorry if I can’t recall when it exactly occurred, maybe when I get back from going out to eat, I can find it if you don’t know what I’m referencing.[/quote]It was when Ben was little and talking to his dead mother. IMO it was Jacob talking to Ben for the first time because the sequence was Ben heard the whisper and told his dead mother he was scared and that’s when she said it will be alright.[/quote]

    I agree – maybe he manifests into something familiar as to not scare the person. Remember Eko talking to “Yemi” – he went through a whole conversation with him and at the end – “Yemi” says something like – You don’t know who I am, do you?

    That would seem that it was someone or something appearing as Yemi – Jacob, maybe?

  509. Missy says:

    [quote comment="190415"]idk if anyone has commented about this but the doctor, ray, looks exactly like mikhalil…
    bens spy???[/quote]

    Ooh – Interensting. I’ll have to go back and take another look. Patchy could look like a new man if he were all cleaned up.

  510. Missy says:

    [quote comment="190542"]So are all the flashbacks and flashforwards really each character traveling in time and reaching a constant of some kind to bring them back to the present?

    How come Lost gets more cool each episode?[/quote]

    Good point – is every flashback/flash forward we’ve seen so far from our characters been a “memory” or a “journey of the subconsious” – interesting….

    It would seem plausible that all of our losties could possibly be affected by their entrance to the island and may b affected by the exposion of the hatch.

    I think it was Danielle who heeded someone to watch your people very closely. It may not happen right away, but that the sickness will set in. At the moment – I am thinking that Danielle’s crew’s sickness was similar to what is happening to Desmond. It’s possible that she coud have killed them before they died on their own from the condition.

  511. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190550"]Hey – do you think the robot drawings on Aaron’s bedroom wall coul be the thing from the island? Maybe because of some electromagnetic force, the robots can make themsleves invisible. Is that a totally off the wall idea?[/quote]I don’t know about invisible robots, but when I looked at the things on the wall, my original thought was that they are crude drawings of the natives of the island, they have less than five toes…three or FOUR?

  512. TheoryNut says:

    [quote comment="190545"]Some things I left out of my original post while waiting to see some reactions:

    This reinforces that the whisperer are smokey. These were whispered after smokey throw Eko to the ground:

    “It’s over ”
    “The black man” (?)
    “(unknown)”
    “Right now / Right here”
    “Locke”
    “Eko”
    “(unknown)”
    “What happened”
    “Shhhh”
    “What’s happening”
    “Now we got his… / I don’t want to kill him”
    “What just happened”
    “What’d he say”
    “Help me up”
    “Is he following?”

    More:

    “You have to believe it’s me, Nikki” was whispered when Hugo was at the cabin, long after Nikki died. It is either Nikki whispering or someone whispering to Nikki.

    Man: “Come to me, I need you. You’re an alchemist and uh…” also whispered when Hugo was at the cabin. I believe someone was whispering to Dr. Artz.

    “Naomi. I don’t know that name” was whispered to Locke when he was getting ready to shoot himself. I take it that after this Loce was told by Walt or the whisperers that she needs to be eliminated.[/quote]

    Again, Hammer you have got it, do you think that as more people have died on the island, the whispers are getting louder? I’m thinking that Jacob=Smokey=Whispers for sure. And this next thought goes entirely against my personal beliefs as well, but I’m thinking that this is a sort of Trinity, Jacob is the physical incarnation (like Christ). The Whispers (the mind /or conscious) and The Smoke (kinda a holy spirit) kinda of thing. However the represent not just One…does this make sense? I’m thinking along the lines of you that they are everyone who has died on the island. And unlike the Christian Worldview, when one dies the go to heaven to be with God. I think that when they die on the island, their souls inhabit the island in these forms. Just some thoughts, I love where your going with this though.

  513. TheoryNut says:

    [quote comment="190556"][quote comment="190415"]idk if anyone has commented about this but the doctor, ray, looks exactly like mikhalil…
    bens spy???[/quote]

    Ooh – Interensting. I’ll have to go back and take another look. Patchy could look like a new man if he were all cleaned up.[/quote]

    Missy, read comment 496. :) Thanks

    [quote comment="190545"]Some things I left out of my original post while waiting to see some reactions:

    This reinforces that the whisperer are smokey. These were whispered after smokey throw Eko to the ground:

    “It’s over ”
    “The black man” (?)
    “(unknown)”
    “Right now / Right here”
    “Locke”
    “Eko”
    “(unknown)”
    “What happened”
    “Shhhh”
    “What’s happening”
    “Now we got his… / I don’t want to kill him”
    “What just happened”
    “What’d he say”
    “Help me up”
    “Is he following?”

    More:

    “You have to believe it’s me, Nikki” was whispered when Hugo was at the cabin, long after Nikki died. It is either Nikki whispering or someone whispering to Nikki.

    Man: “Come to me, I need you. You’re an alchemist and uh…” also whispered when Hugo was at the cabin. I believe someone was whispering to Dr. Artz.

    “Naomi. I don’t know that name” was whispered to Locke when he was getting ready to shoot himself. I take it that after this Loce was told by Walt or the whisperers that she needs to be eliminated.[/quote]

    Again, Hammer you have got it, do you think that as more people have died on the island, the whispers are getting louder? I’m thinking that Jacob=Smokey=Whispers for sure. And this next thought goes entirely against my personal beliefs as well, but I’m thinking that this is a sort of Trinity, Jacob is the physical incarnation (like Christ). The Whispers (the mind /or conscious) and The Smoke (kinda a holy spirit) kinda of thing. However the represent not just One…does this make sense? I’m thinking along the lines of you that they are everyone who has died on the island. And unlike the Christian Worldview, when one dies the go to heaven to be with God. I think that when they die on the island, their souls inhabit the island in these forms. Just some thoughts, I love where your going with this though.

  514. TheoryNut says:

    I think we’ve seen Jacob in several forms (meaning) people. Ben’s Mom, Yemi, Walt, Christian Shepherd. who else…?

  515. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190557]I am thinking that Danielle’s crew’s sickness was similar to what is happening to Desmond. It’s possible that she coud have killed them before they died on their own from the condition.[/quote]
    Agreed, I think a couple of us brought this up earlier in this thread. I very much believe that there is no “virus” and the injections that Des and Kelvin where taking were to attempt to stop or slow down the side effects. Des started having his side effect some time after he fled the hatch and stopped worring about the virus.

  516. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190565"] but I’m thinking that this is a sort of Trinity, Jacob is the physical incarnation (like Christ). The Whispers (the mind /or conscious) and The Smoke (kinda a holy spirit) kinda of thing. However the represent not just One…does this make sense? [/quote]
    Yep, makes sense to me. I’m glad some of you folks are buying this one and adding to it!

  517. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="189466"]Did anyone else notice that Sayid has a scar on his left arm through some of the episode of the Economist(when on the island) but not in the future when he is with the woman that he killed. I also noticed that he had the scar in this episode. Does this have anything to do with the time travel?[/quote]

    Wasn’t Sayeed shot in the arm when he first met Patchy at the house that Locke blew up later?
    I’m a little hazy on it but I remember Locke was off searching the house and Patchy was patching up whoever got shot and suddenly attacked.

    It’s funny how little things take on an ominous quality; like Widmore leaving the water on in the Restroom.
    Widmore has such an evil presence!

    Why do Charlotte and Miles not seem all that concerned with their access to the Chopper and their way off the island? Or even show all that much anxiety with being prisoners of the Losties? Except for that last scene where Locke put the grenade in Miles’ mouth.

    From the preview for next week; it looks as if Julliete is fighting with someone and I sense she also may have some secrets and a bad streak.
    Love her line that went something like; tell us slowly and we will try to follow along…when Charlotte said telling them the truth would only confuse them.

    Where is the hell did the French lady go? And how the hell did she survive so long sans cigarettes and Baguettes? There’s a chunk ‘o dialogue missing between mother and daughter!

    I still say there are conversations missing about food and sex. People on an island would be thinking about food all the time like Prisoners in a camp did. And there’s got to be some more sex; Why not a scene where some guy is whacking off and gets walked in on? That would be funny. Maybe it would break some taboos but more in line with reality!
    If Jimmy Kimmel can sing about F##king Ben Affleck on Network TV….we can have at least a fraction of real life situations on LOST re sex. It’s just that it gets so many other things just right. Less Polar bear and more bear asses? Just not Hurley…

  518. im4lost says:

    [quote comment="189034"]Des will be one of the “O6″,either that or he will be one of the “DO8″(2 Dead “O6″survivors from Jacks BS court story).I assume this because he is with Syaid now so… what happens next,its up to you but I say the big dude fom Vegas is not the ships libraian so expect fireworks next episode.Also,Ben’s “Man on the Boat”?… I think its the chopper pilot,what say you?[/quote]
    Des wasn’t on flight, therefore can’t be of the O6. Michael, the captain,and ben’s man?

  519. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190530"]Hammer thanks for your thoughts on the whispers. I think you are definitely onto something (although I disagree with your personal beliefs). Your idea makes the most sense to me so far. LOTS of things seem to fit.
    I had a thought during the night that I couldn’t wait to post (almost got up at 3a.m. to post it): When Desmond goes back to 1996 and meets Daniel, Dan tells him “you can’t change the future” but then he immediately DOES change the future. Think about Eloise’s future: He put her through the maze, which she could run, because he said he was going to teach her to run it in the next hour. She had learned to run it IN THE FUTURE because he hadn’t taught her yet as of the present. HOWEVER, she died BEFORE he actually DID teach her. HER future was therefore changed. She was NEVER taught to run the maze. Are you with me so far? So, since Eloise’s future had been changed, it follows that ANYONE’S future could also be changed. I therefore believe that Daniel had NOT met Desmond until 2004 and that by sending Des back to meet him in 1996, He changed the future, at least Desmond’s future (and his – Daniel’s)and possibly everyone’s. Desmond remembers everything now and his nose is no longer bleeding. I think future episodes will show that Daniel is different too, now that both of them have their constant. Feedback please, I believe this idea opens up some interesting possibilites. Thanks.[/quote]

    It may be loose writing but perhaps he did teach her in the 75 minutes Des was zoned out. So the timeline could be: Des passes out. Dan zaps rat bringing rat back to present. Dan teaches maze to rat. Rat dies. Des comes back, and asks what happened to rat. Daniel unconcerned just wants to record the events, blah, blah, blah.

  520. Gup says:

    First time to post….just wanted to say how helpful reading everyone’s ideas has been. It really makes me feel like I have a better understanding when I watch each episode. Thanks everyone!

  521. Rita says:

    [quote comment="190678"][quote comment="190530"]Hammer thanks for your thoughts on the whispers. I think you are definitely onto something (although I disagree with your personal beliefs). Your idea makes the most sense to me so far. LOTS of things seem to fit.
    I had a thought during the night that I couldn’t wait to post (almost got up at 3a.m. to post it): When Desmond goes back to 1996 and meets Daniel, Dan tells him “you can’t change the future” but then he immediately DOES change the future. Think about Eloise’s future: He put her through the maze, which she could run, because he said he was going to teach her to run it in the next hour. She had learned to run it IN THE FUTURE because he hadn’t taught her yet as of the present. HOWEVER, she died BEFORE he actually DID teach her. HER future was therefore changed. She was NEVER taught to run the maze. Are you with me so far? So, since Eloise’s future had been changed, it follows that ANYONE’S future could also be changed. I therefore believe that Daniel had NOT met Desmond until 2004 and that by sending Des back to meet him in 1996, He changed the future, at least Desmond’s future (and his – Daniel’s)and possibly everyone’s. Desmond remembers everything now and his nose is no longer bleeding. I think future episodes will show that Daniel is different too, now that both of them have their constant. Feedback please, I believe this idea opens up some interesting possibilites. Thanks.[/quote]

    It may be loose writing but perhaps he did teach her in the 75 minutes Des was zoned out. So the timeline could be: Des passes out. Dan zaps rat bringing rat back to present. Dan teaches maze to rat. Rat dies. Des comes back, and asks what happened to rat. Daniel unconcerned just wants to record the events, blah, blah, blah.[/quote]
    I hear (see?) what you are saying but I don’t think so. First of all, why would Dan have to teach the rat NOW, she already KNOWS the maze? So it has to either be loose writing, OR as I stated, YOU CAN CHANGE THE FUTURE! I doubt it is the loose writing, it has been pretty tight to date. I also think that the fact that the future was in fact changed (Eloise’s) RIGHT AFTER Dan said it couldn’t be changed was a hint for us so we wouldn’t have to look too hard to find it.

  522. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190703"][quote comment="190678"][quote comment="190530"][/quote]

    [/quote]
    I hear (see?) what you are saying but I don’t think so. First of all, why would Dan have to teach the rat NOW, she already KNOWS the maze? So it has to either be loose writing, OR as I stated, YOU CAN CHANGE THE FUTURE! I doubt it is the loose writing, it has been pretty tight to date. I also think that the fact that the future was in fact changed (Eloise’s) RIGHT AFTER Dan said it couldn’t be changed was a hint for us so we wouldn’t have to look too hard to find it.[/quote]

    The thing is the writer’s seem to be going out of their way to state the future can not be changed. Even in their podcasts they state, we are very much against the future changing paradox. That’s why no matter what Des tried, he could not save Charlie, or Ms. Hawking with the red shoes man.

    If Dan zaps the rat bringing the rat back to the present, he would have to teach the rat the maze. On second thought he probably doesn’t even have to zap the rat, as it is slipping in and out of present and future consciousness anyway.

    If you buy into the future can’t be changed, Dan is going to teach the rat the maze regardless of the mini events that happen b4 actually teaching her.

    If the future CAN be changed, then there is the possibility that the FF’s that we see may not occur. The writers are definitely dead set against that, as that would be a form of alternative realities, and they state that they want the viewer to be invested in the flash forward that they see. The ability of the future changing opens up all kinds of possibilities that I do not believe they want as an option.

  523. RGS says:

    Also that’s what I meant by loose writing, because as someone pointed out b4, may have even been you, that when Des changes the way Charlie dies, he is in fact technically changing the future. But the writer’s are chalking that particular change as a “course correction.”

  524. Joel says:

    [quote comment="190656"][quote comment="189466"]
    I still say there are conversations missing about food and sex. People on an island would be thinking about food all the time like Prisoners in a camp did. And there’s got to be some more sex; Why not a scene where some guy is whacking off and gets walked in on? That would be funny. Maybe it would break some taboos but more in line with reality!
    If Jimmy Kimmel can sing about F##king Ben Affleck on Network TV….we can have at least a fraction of real life situations on LOST re sex. It’s just that it gets so many other things just right. Less Polar bear and more bear asses? Just not Hurley…[/quote]

    Are you in Junior High??? I, for one, am very happy that at least one TV show doesn’t need to use sex to get viewers. This is about the only show on TV that actually stimulates your mind instead of something lower! Please see that as a huge movement in the right direction.

  525. Rita says:

    [quote comment="190717"]Also that’s what I meant by loose writing, because as someone pointed out b4, may have even been you, that when Des changes the way Charlie dies, he is in fact technically changing the future. But the writer’s are chalking that particular change as a “course correction.”[/quote]
    Thanks RGS for the feedback. I will have to think this all through a bit more but you have given me some things to think about.

  526. Sean C. says:

    One thing: Some people have commented about Des’ going AWOL and if it’s related to Daniel Faraday. I think the fact that Des goes AWOL IS directly related to Des’ looking for Daniel at Oxford in 1996. Why? Well, if we assume that Des’ 2004 consciousness takes over Des’ 1996 body, there is very little chance that Des’ 2004 consciousness would remember the “fact” that Des has “two days of leave coming,” as Des tells Penny while he’s on the pay phone (especially considering that Des has no reference point as to what date it is). Most logical conclusion = Des makes up the “leave” story to convince Penny to see him, Des goes AWOL and gets thrown out of the army.

    Also, as someone else has already pointed out, it seems as though the past and present consciousnesses switch places during time phases (see Des’ failure to recognize anyone on the helo ride during the initial time-phase). This, then, poses some other questions.

    Does switching of consciousnesses ALWAYS happen? Remember, 1996 Daniel told 2004 Des’ consciousness that Des had been out for about 75 minutes (in Daniel’s office when Des stopped talking in midsentence). Where was Des’ 1996 consciousness during the 75 minutes (when, presumably, Des’ 2004 consciousness was back with his 2004 body)? And at the end, when Des is “back to normal,” we’re assuming that Des’ 1996 consciousness is back with Des’ 1996 body. Where was it all that time?

    And it seemed to me that as the episode went on, the writers wanted to make it clear that Des’ blackouts in 1996 were becoming longer and longer. For example, in the beginning of the episode when Des’ 2004 consciousness first inhabited Des’ 1996 body, it seemed like 1996 time went by very quickly during the times Des’ 2004 consciousness reunited with Des’ 2004 body (the wakeup call in the morning in the barracks, the pushups scene, the picking up of the coins off the pavement–if Des’ 2004 consciousness had been gone for more than a moment in 1996 time, Des’ 1996 body would have slumped/gone limp, as no consciousness would be controlling Des’ 1996 body–remember back to the scene in the stairwell when Des collapses when he time-phases back to 2004 and the bathroom scene with the running water. Incidentally, the running water was a poor plot device, IMHO. Why? You try leaving the water on in most higher-end bathroom sinks [as that bathroom looked like] and see how long it takes for the water to flood. The answer = very rarely. Even if we assume the drain was clogged, either purposely by Widmore or not [probably not, as I think the fact Widmore didn't turn off the water was more a plot device to register time passing than anything that added to the storytelling], most sinks–especially the higher-end ones–have those holes towards the tops of the sinkbowls to prevent just the kind of overflow we saw in this scene). Towards the end of the episode, though, Des was out for upwards of 70 minutes (in 1996 Daniel’s office). Where was Des’ 1996 consciousness during all this time? And how does it come back at the end to inhabit Des’ 1996 body when everything turns out ok?

    Maybe the past conciousnesses do come back to inhabit the past bodies during the time-phases, only the 1996 bodies are in a blackout state during these times. And it seems like the past consciousnesses are only able to inhabit their respective future bodies once, during the intial time-phase, after which, the past consciousness are AWOL, MIA, or otherwise incapacitated.

  527. RGS says:

    [quote comment="190729"]One thing: Some people have commented about Des’ going AWOL and if it’s related to Daniel Faraday. I think the fact that Des goes AWOL IS directly related to Des’ looking for Daniel at Oxford in 1996. Why? Well, if we assume that Des’ 2004 consciousness takes over Des’ 1996 body, there is very little chance that Des’ 2004 consciousness would remember the “fact” that Des has “two days of leave coming,” as Des tells Penny while he’s on the pay phone (especially considering that Des has no reference point as to what date it is). Most logical conclusion = Des makes up the “leave” story to convince Penny to see him, Des goes AWOL and gets thrown out of the army.

    Also, as someone else has already pointed out, it seems as though the past and present consciousnesses switch places during time phases (see Des’ failure to recognize anyone on the helo ride during the initial time-phase). This, then, poses some other questions.

    Does switching of consciousnesses ALWAYS happen? Remember, 1996 Daniel told 2004 Des’ consciousness that Des had been out for about 75 minutes (in Daniel’s office when Des stopped talking in midsentence). Where was Des’ 1996 consciousness during the 75 minutes (when, presumably, Des’ 2004 consciousness was back with his 2004 body)? And at the end, when Des is “back to normal,” we’re assuming that Des’ 1996 consciousness is back with Des’ 1996 body. Where was it all that time?

    And it seemed to me that as the episode went on, the writers wanted to make it clear that Des’ blackouts in 1996 were becoming longer and longer. For example, in the beginning of the episode when Des’ 2004 consciousness first inhabited Des’ 1996 body, it seemed like 1996 time went by very quickly during the times Des’ 2004 consciousness reunited with Des’ 2004 body (the wakeup call in the morning in the barracks, the pushups scene, the picking up of the coins off the pavement–if Des’ 2004 consciousness had been gone for more than a moment in 1996 time, Des’ 1996 body would have slumped/gone limp, as no consciousness would be controlling Des’ 1996 body–remember back to the scene in the stairwell when Des collapses when he time-phases back to 2004 and the bathroom scene with the running water. Incidentally, the running water was a poor plot device, IMHO. Why? You try leaving the water on in most higher-end bathroom sinks [as that bathroom looked like] and see how long it takes for the water to flood. The answer = very rarely. Even if we assume the drain was clogged, either purposely by Widmore or not [probably not, as I think the fact Widmore didn't turn off the water was more a plot device to register time passing than anything that added to the storytelling], most sinks–especially the higher-end ones–have those holes towards the tops of the sinkbowls to prevent just the kind of overflow we saw in this scene). Towards the end of the episode, though, Des was out for upwards of 70 minutes (in 1996 Daniel’s office). Where was Des’ 1996 consciousness during all this time? And how does it come back at the end to inhabit Des’ 1996 body when everything turns out ok?

    Maybe the past conciousnesses do come back to inhabit the past bodies during the time-phases, only the 1996 bodies are in a blackout state during these times. And it seems like the past consciousnesses are only able to inhabit their respective future bodies once, during the intial time-phase, after which, the past consciousness are AWOL, MIA, or otherwise incapacitated.[/quote]

    Dez’s 2004 consciousness is gone when he grips the chair on the helicopter. It does not return until he talks to Penny as his Constant.

    Almost the whole episode is told from Dez’s 1996 consciousness. I do think that it is possible that Des made up the 2 days leave story, but it still would have come from the 96 consciousness. When Des is out in 1996, his 96 conscious is in 2004. The amount of time he spends in either time zone is part of the whole brain aneurysm issue. I agree with the sink, that’s another example of potential loose writing/poor plot device, but maybe that’s how the English bathrooms are (w/o 3 holes at top I’ve never been to England).

    As far as the phasing in and out, there was some good discussion on this subject a couple hundred posts ago.

  528. Cutley says:

    More of this at http://robotindisguiseblog.blogspot.com/

    So this is what I gather from the time-traveling consciousness: If someone is exposed to high levels of radiation or electro-magnetism and then comes in contact with the Island without following specific directions for getting to the Island, then they will have Desmond’s jumping consciousness problem. Without that combination, you are OK We know Desmond was exposed to the electro-magnetism when he turned the fail-safe key at the end of season two and that the helicopter was knocked slightly off course when they flew to the freighter. Desmond lost it at that point. That logic train says if Locke, Charlie and Eko (who were in the Hatch when it exploded) were on the helicopter, they would have experienced the same problem as it pulls into the station. My guess is that we will find out that Minkowski at some point was also exposed to radiation and that when he left the freighter and went to look for the Island, he lost it. (We also know now why he couldn’t make it to the phone in previous episodes…)

    If you believe that, then it explains why Farraday hasn’t flipped out when he arrived even though he had radiation exposure. The helicopter followed the exact right path on their approach to the Island. And since the pilot and Sayid hadn’t had the radiation exposure, they didn’t loose it on the helicopter when the copter was knocked off course.

    As for Desmond and his flashes about Charlie’s death, this is all I have: Desmond has slight conscious distortion while on the Island that allows/forces him to see a few days into the future or past because of the Island’s strange surrounding environment exacerbated by the turning of the failsafe key. As he leaves the Island, the environmental distortion further disorients his sense of surroundings and enables a conscious jump that is measured in years, not days.

    That’s all I have on that. My only question is why exactly does Farraday need a constant? And why would he choose Desmond if Desmond in 2004 was going to be on a deserted Island and isolated on the freighter? What if Farraday ended up in Aug. 2004 and Desmond was alone on the Island? How would Farraday get a hold of his constant?

  529. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190691"]First time to post….just wanted to say how helpful reading everyone’s ideas has been. It really makes me feel like I have a better understanding when I watch each episode. Thanks everyone![/quote]
    That’s great.

    I was listening to a local radio show in the Detroit area on Friday morning. They were commenting on the show and had people calling in to talk about it. I laughed when the hosts and a caller were frustrated because they think there is a “magic box” (the metaphor Ben used on Locke when he brought Cooper on the island) and they haven’t seen it yet. LOL.

    They also don’t understand the numbers thing. They only know that they are used but knew nothing about their meaning. One person even said that even though some of the numbers Dan told Des to tell him in 1996 couldn’t be related because not ALL of them were used…cracked me up. I tried to call in to tell them about the blog, but since Lost is so popular I couldn’t get through.

  530. Hammer says:

    Cutley, @ 529, IMO they didn’t have to be by the hatch when it blew. Early in the show, when folks walked through the hatch they were being exposed to the magnet. Remember the key on one of Losties neck would stick straight out when he walked by, and Sayid found that the walls were extremely think so they couldn’t get to the magnet. My thought is every one on or near the island is being exposed, but folks with heavy exposure get the side effects more in more freqeunt and robust fashion.

  531. Rita says:

    [quote comment="190748"]More of this at http://robotindisguiseblog.blogspot.com/

    My only question is why exactly does Farraday need a constant? And why would he choose Desmond if Desmond in 2004 was going to be on a deserted Island and isolated on the freighter? What if Farraday ended up in Aug. 2004 and Desmond was alone on the Island? How would Farraday get a hold of his constant?[/quote]
    Daniel Faraday knew Desmond would be on the island to meet him in 2004 because Desmond told Daniel they met on the island and that Daniel had told Des where to find him in 1996. I think he chose Desmond as his constant because Des was the only person or thing that Daniel knew FOR SURE was going to be in his future (because Desmond came back and told him they had met there). As to why Daniel NEEDED a constant, as I said before, I believe he tried the experiments on himself (the ones he used on Eloise). Either that, or the lead apron he wore for protection did not work and he was exposed anyway. If I had to bet, I would go with that he tried it on himself. He is a scientist and who could resist?

  532. Rita says:

    OK Hammer, I have to ask. I am not much of a texter so I don’t know the “lingo” but what does “IMO” or “IMHO” MEAN??

  533. Hammer says:

    In my opinon, in my humble opinion.

  534. Cutley says:

    Thank you Rita. I’ll believe that. I just couldn’t figure out a way to articulate it/work my way though that problem.

    My post is finally up and done. Sorry for the delay if you checked it.

    http://robotindisguiseblog.blogspot.com/

  535. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190748"]
    … and that the helicopter was knocked slightly off course when they flew to the freighter. Desmond lost it at that point.
    [/quote]
    I still believe that Frank was EXACTLY on course. To leave the island anomaly… he had to precisely fly through a specific window. If you look at his note from Daniel, it says 40 Miles N (I assume that to mean 40 nautical miles) @ 305 degrees. Then it says the freighter is 6 K (kilometers) to the East. There was even a litle diagram depicting that exact thing. We saw Frank fly that course, he said he had to wait a bit longer, while Desmond had his fit and Sayid aided. Then we saw Frank make a descending left turn (East) and then we saw the freighter just over 6 km later.
    I think Des had a reaction to flying thru the “window” because he is simply hypersensitive to the phenomena, because of his time in the hatch, etc…. I think his time in the Royal Army (events we have yet to see yet) probably had him as some sort of “lab rat” in an elaborate experiment working on electro-magnetics, military camouflage, etc…. (ala “The Philidelphia Experiment” – read the theory at

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment)

    Daniel may have had a similar “disorienting” event on his way to the island, because of his repeated exposure in his life. Remember how goofy he was for the first few days after he arrived.

  536. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="189094"]
    I think it’s 2004 on the show and not 2007. They started in 2004 and although we have been watching for 3 years, they have only been on the island 90 days.[/quote]

    doesnt that just freak you all out…..(sinister music:..dum dum dum dum…..)

  537. Cutley says:

    DocH – You don’t think Farraday is just as nuts now as he was during “Confirmed Dead”? I think he is and that’s the only reason why I tried to rationalize why Farraday hasn’t gone nuts/forgotten everyone and what happened to Desmond on the way out. I’d agree that Frank flew in the directions provided, but didn’t Farraday tell Jack there would be side-effects only if he didn’t fly exactly on the given directions?

  538. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190803"]
    … Then we saw Frank make a descending left turn (East) and then we saw the freighter just over 6 km later.
    [/quote]
    Correction, I meant descending right turn… Lysdexia runs in the family… I mean Dyslexia.

  539. gman says:

    I have a vauge theory about Des. Is it possible that his future conscience is coming back to the island in order to correct the things that may have prevented him from re-uninting with Penny? For instance everytime he saves Charlie he says that he saw him die. From the emotion in his voice it seems that he was actually there, not simply having a vision of it but being physically there. Is it possible that he is purposefully reliving the time following the hatch explosion over and over until he gets it right? I’m a long time addict, but fairly new to posting so please be patient.

  540. leah says:

    any one know a web site that watches lost on a sunday night ,which lost has just this minute finished . 10 pm . I cant keep reading 500 or so posts every week because im four days behind. need a uk website.

  541. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190806"]
    …You don’t think Farraday is just as nuts now as he was during “Confirmed Dead”? I think he is and that’s the only reason why I tried to rationalize why Farraday hasn’t gone nuts/forgotten everyone and what happened to Desmond on the way out.
    I’d agree that Frank flew in the directions provided, but didn’t Farraday tell Jack there would be side-effects only if he didn’t fly exactly on the given directions?
    [/quote]
    There is still a question of “when” Daniel had his snivel/weep episode watching the 815 wreckage discovery. Was he weeping because he had already visited and returned from LOST island? Or was he having his little meltdown because he recognized his destiny and knew he was going to have to start his journey to LOST island?
    There was the warning about flying exactly to get out without side-effects. Not doing that may provide adverse side-effects for ALL onboard the helo, while the “sensitives” onboard will always have a negative reaction, no matter how close they come to the anomaly / window.

  542. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190808"]Is it possible that his future conscience is coming back to the island in order to correct the things that may have prevented him from re-uninting with Penny? For instance everytime he saves Charlie he says that he saw him die. From the emotion in his voice it seems that he was actually there, not simply having a vision of it but being physically there. Is it possible that he is purposefully reliving the time following the hatch explosion over and over until he gets it right? I’m a long time addict, but fairly new to posting so please be patient.[/quote]
    I have to do some research, but I am remembering that Desmond pretty much said somthing to that effect when he was looking at the photo after he had his episode where he went back in time. He bought the ring from the woman who said he wasn’t supposed to and that he can’t change fate. He almost asked Penny to marry him. I think that was when he decided not to mess with fate, but afterwards he regretted not staying with Penny and promised himself he would find her and fix it.

  543. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190812"]
    any one know a web site that watches lost on a sunday night ,which lost has just this minute finished . 10 pm . I cant keep reading 500 or so posts every week because im four days behind. need a uk website.
    [/quote]
    here is one that seems to be active at
    Neowin Forums » Recreational Activities »
    The Media Room (over 120 pages +)

    tinyurl.com/ywj2mr

  544. gman says:

    Thanks for the reply Hammer. I believe you’re right. He did say something along the lines of “I will fix it.” Maybe that is exactly what he has been trying to do. Something else that makes me think this is that I believe he said to Charlie “You died this morning” (in S. 3) Notice he didn’t say “You were supposed to die” Just some thoughts.

  545. Hammer says:

    Hey DocH. Have you had a chance to look at my two posts about the whispers? Thoughts?

  546. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="189550"][quote comment="189544"]“I refuse to acknowledge the idea that Sawyer dies because he is my biggest person-who-doesn’t-really-exist crush.”

    Mine too! I love him. Named my baby after him! (seriously…) :~)[/quote]

    **Attention Lostblog associates, we have a Sawyer Stalker in aisle 259. Please approach with care***[/quote]

    it is fairly easy to stalk somebody who lives on a bloody island & is on TV every thursday night at 7 PM – 9 PM. =] besides who ever said stalking is bad obviously never did it….lol

  547. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190830"]
    Have you had a chance to look at my two posts about the whispers? Thoughts?
    [/quote]
    Yes I did. I read everyone’s comment on the whispers. The island whispers have really interested me for two years now, ever since they started dissecting them. There were not many transcripts a year ago, and I couldn’t get my friends interested in them – so interest waned – and I need to research and get a little “better read” on what has happened with the whispers recently.

    [After driving 11 hours last night, getting the family to the ski cabin for the week, I am a bit groggy and need time to digest fresh data. The only whispers I hear right now are the imaginary ones under my watch cap and between my sideburns.]

  548. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190839"][quote comment="190830"]
    Have you had a chance to look at my two posts about the whispers? Thoughts?
    [/quote]
    Yes I did. I read everyone’s comment on the whispers. The island whispers have really interested me for two years now, ever since they started dissecting them. There were not many transcripts a year ago, and I couldn’t get my friends interested in them – so interest waned – and I need to research and get a little “better read” on what has happened with the whispers recently.

    [After driving 11 hours last night, getting the family to the ski cabin for the week, I am a bit groggy and need time to digest fresh data. The only whispers I hear right now are the imaginary ones under my watch cap and between my sideburns.][/quote]
    Jealous…here is MI the skiing is fun, but we can go backwards with a beer blind folded…just foothills.

  549. Cutley says:

    DocH –

    “When” exactly did Farraday watch the wreckage of 815? I always thought it was before they went to the Island. The producers said to Doc Jensen at EW a few weeks ago that the sequence of flashbacks in each episode are in chronological order (i.e. Sayid killed the guy on the golf course before he met Elsa). So at the end of Confirmed Dead, Abaddon gave Naomi her marching orders with the Freighter Foursome. That would leave me to believe that the 815 wreckage was found before the freighter left. That also explains why Naomi knew the wreckage had been found in the Sunda(sp?) Trench with all the survivors. Thoughts?

  550. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190848"]DocH –

    “When” exactly did Farraday watch the wreckage of 815? I always thought it was before they went to the Island. The producers said to Doc Jensen at EW a few weeks ago that the sequence of flashbacks in each episode are in chronological order (i.e. Sayid killed the guy on the golf course before he met Elsa). So at the end of Confirmed Dead, Abaddon gave Naomi her marching orders with the Freighter Foursome. That would leave me to believe that the 815 wreckage was found before the freighter left. That also explains why Naomi knew the wreckage had been found in the Sunda(sp?) Trench with all the survivors. Thoughts?[/quote]
    Can I stab at it? I think they meant that when watching an ep. and there is a series of FBs or FFs for a character, they will be chronological. If there are FFs or FBs for more than one character in an ep. they may not be. So I don’t think we know when Dan sees the wreck, before or after he gets to the island since we now know that he could end up with side effects when he leaves again.

  551. Hammer says:

    Oh BTW, I think that all of the flashes we saw for the freighter folks were before they came to the island simply because Cooper knew about the plane being found.

  552. intolost says:

    Hey DocH—Remind me of Des’s hatchmate and the situation with Jack letting Shannon’s father die. I forgot. Thx.

  553. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190859"]Hey DocH—Remind me of Des’s hatchmate and the situation with Jack letting Shannon’s father die. I forgot. Thx.[/quote]
    Go to lostpedia.com, search for Kelvin to see about Des’s hatchmate.

    As far as Shannon’s father, I think Jack operated on his future wife’s spine instead of an older man who is supposedly Shannon’s dad.

  554. achtungpv says:

    I don’t see how time travel (as it currently exists on the show) explains the polar bear in the desert. Right now, your consciousness travels not your physical being. There’s been no indication that you can travel back to a time or place in your existing time line. Polar bears have never been in the Middle East, particularly the ones on the island. They got there some other way.

  555. Cutley says:

    More of this at http://robotindisguiseblog.blogspot.com/

    I think we all need to be thankful for Desmond.

    You remember that scene in Saving Private Ryan when Tom Hank’s character gives a monologue about the importance of finding Ryan to him? That it was a way home to his wife; that amid the horror and brutality of France’s northern coast, there was a very humane, heartfelt reason behind these GIs’ actions. It was merely an end to a personal means. Desmond is the embodiment of that speech to LOST, serving the exact same purpose. At the tail end of LOST’s most scientifically trippy and fanciful episode, Desmond’s call to Penny re-grounded the show in what differentiates it from other shows in the “science fiction” genre – The X-Files, Star Trek, even Heroes – if you can even make the claim LOST belongs in the same category. LOST, at its core, is about basic human emotions with the focus on the characters and their personal struggles rather than the mysterious island playground they find themselves on. If the characters didn’t elicit some emotion, we’d never watch the show. Answers about the Island come too infrequently to sustain viewers. We have to be invested in the characters and be reminded that the shows strength lies in the 815 survivors, the Others, and the Freighter Foursome, not with the Black Smoke nor the Four-Toed Statue. And Desmond, more than any other character, serves of a reminder of the character’s importance to the audience and the narrative. The audience will be able to swallow wormholes and time traveling consciouses if at the end the payoff is something as primal as finding the one you love. Desmond is a noble Odysseus, firmly planting the airy-fairy back into the realm of personal relationships. Like Odysseus, Desmond is completing an arduous journey back to a Penelope who has been faithfully waiting against the wishes of those surrounding her until her man can reclaim that which he left – except our Odysseus doesn’t fail from the same ethical shortcomings as Homer’s. Homer’s Odysseus would sleep with Kate, Claire, Juliet, the stewardess, Rose and Sun if he thought it would help him off the Island, but that is neither here nor there.

  556. Michael says:

    Desmond conscience goes back in time eight years. He finds a constant (something familiar in both the present and the past) and his conscience returns to the present with full knowledge of what has gone on.

    The other guy on the boat whose conscience was also being transported through time. When he comes to on the boat he is fully aware of what is going on. As if he is in the past. Like Desmond
    Is aware in 96, that guy is in 04. So if his conscience is being transported like Desmond, that would mean he is from the future or he is having different side effects?

  557. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190848"]
    “When” exactly did Faraday watch the wreckage of 815? I always thought it was before they went to the Island. The producers said to Doc Jensen at EW a few weeks ago that the sequence of flashbacks in each episode are in chronological order (i.e. Sayid killed the guy on the golf course before he met Elsa). So at the end of Confirmed Dead, Abbadon gave Naomi her marching orders with the Freighter Foursome. That would leave me to believe that the 815 wreckage was found before the freighter left. That also explains why Naomi knew the wreckage had been found in the Sunda Trench with all the survivors…
    [/quote]

    > Great point! I read the Jensen interview and “In chronological order” is PER episode, obviously NOT by episode. But the contrast to that is – Des 04, Des 96, Des 04, Des 96, Des 04, Des 96, etc… in a single episode. So if the rule is true, then Des never travels back, it was purely in his reflective (psychotic) mind… occuring as we saw it in present time – that would eliminate “time travel” and endorse “astral projection”.

    > Small spin… What if the Abbadon and Naomi “team-building” discussion was ‘just’ after the film of the 815 wreckage ‘went public’. It may have been ‘recorded’ a month or two before, with both Abba & Naomi having full knowledge of the faking/filming. Only when things got ‘hot’ (Swan Hatch failure) did they (or TPTB) release the film to the news outlets. Once released, and well after they had identified many potential hires, did they decide on the four (+Minkowski) that they hauled off to the South Pacific. (I live for a good conspiracy theory!)

    > The bottom line, anybody can spin a potential solution to our LOST discussion here. I am not taking an solid stance on any of those positions here because we won’t know a single thing until they show us in future episodes… I am just trying to facilitate an honest, open, friendly, fun debate. I don’t have to be correct… ever… I just want to be in the ballpark… but mostly, I just want to make sure we explore all possibilities – the icing on life’s cake.

  558. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="190905"]
    > Great point! I read the Jensen interview and “In chronological order” is PER episode, obviously NOT by episode. But the contrast to that is – Des 04, Des 96, Des 04, Des 96, Des 04, Des 96, etc… in a single episode. So if the rule is true, then Des never travels back, it was purely in his reflective (psychotic) mind… occuring as we saw it in present time – that would eliminate “time travel” and endorse “astral projection”.[/quote]Well didn’t the mean that FFs would be in order and FBs would be in order. In other words you can have an FB then a FF, then the next FB would be chronolically after the first FB and so on?

    Even still your point about the going back and forth is less likely time travel and more likely astral projection is a strong one.

  559. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190875"]
    … I don’t see how time travel (as it currently exists on the show) explains the polar bear in the desert.
    … Polar bears have never been in the Middle East, particularly the ones on the island. They got there some other way.
    [/quote]
    I agree that the bear is not time traveling (or astral projecting). Technically, Tunisia is not the Middle East, but sub-Saharan/Mediterreanean North Africa. I will offer this, there are PBears all over the planet, in all climates right now. They are in Zoo’s! If Dharma had a North African Initiative, like the South Pacific Intiatitive, then maybe their Hydra Island experiment had an equivalent zoological operation in equatorial Africa… it could happen???

  560. DocH says:

    [quote comment="190912"]
    … In other words you can have an FB then a FF, then the next FB would be chronologically after the first FB and so on?
    [/quote]

    I concur.

    (FYI. Durango, CO is perfecto. Puragtory on Monday, Wolf Creek, then Telluride, Wolf and back to Puratory at the end of the week. God help the first snowboarder that catches my elbow this week. LOST… Rockies-style. minus polar bears.)

  561. raichey says:

    i’m newly obsessed, don’t have tv, and started and finished every episode online during the last part of my pregnancy, the last 8 weeks

    question: was that picture of the ship the black rock? and i thought from find 815 site it said that it last left in 1881, and last episode said 1845? what does this have to do with anything?

    do we for sure know who the oceanic6 are?
    is sayid one or not?

  562. leah says:

    [quote comment="189016"]WHAT A SHOW, it is getting really interesting..
    can’t wait until thursday!!!!!!
    i was wondering who is the captain on the ship?????[/quote]
    Richard alpert i bet.

  563. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="190656"]
    Why do Charlotte and Miles not seem all that concerned with their access to the Chopper and their way off the island? Or even show all that much anxiety with being prisoners of the Losties? Except for that last scene where Locke put the grenade in Miles’ mouth.
    [/quote]
    Should they wring their hands together and whisper a prayer?
    (just kidding, and paraphrasing Charlotte)

  564. UK Chris says:

    Whilst reading through this forum, a thought occurred to me regarding the ‘constant’ thing. In the first couple of series, when we are seeing flashbacks from the characters, didn’t they all in one way or another meet each other, or at least cross paths? In the airport, on the street, somehow they all met. They could all be each others ‘constant’ and that is why no-one has suffered the side effects.

    Just a thought…

  565. leah says:

    [quote comment="190346"][quote comment="190340"]Now that time travel is playing into the plot, do you think when future Jack is telling Kate they need to go “back,” he could actually be talking about going back in time to get back to the island?[/quote]
    Or are they one in the same?[/quote]
    Not go back to the island, go back to the right timeframe.

  566. leah says:

    [quote comment="191082"]Whilst reading through this forum, a thought occurred to me regarding the ‘constant’ thing. In the first couple of series, when we are seeing flashbacks from the characters, didn’t they all in one way or another meet each other, or at least cross paths? In the airport, on the street, somehow they all met. They could all be each others ‘constant’ and that is why no-one has suffered the side effects.

    Just a thought…[/quote]
    i like that idea, but it wasnt just the characters that crossed paths it was sometimes people they knew eg.kates father was kelvins superior officer in the gulf,as well as capturing sayid.

  567. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="190737"]
    I agree with the sink, that’s another example of potential loose writing/poor plot device, but maybe that’s how the English bathrooms are (w/o 3 holes at top I’ve never been to England).
    [/quote]
    Kind of a nit-picky thing, but…..
    whether or not there are holes at the top of the sink, it could overflow. The purpose of those holes is to prevent an overflow if someone blocks the drain at the bottom of the sink. However, water that goes through the holes at the top of the sink and water that goes through the drain at the bottom of the sink all goes to the same pipe – look under any sink, you’ll only see one drain pipe. So, if the pipe itself was clogged, the sink could easily overflow.

  568. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191093"][quote comment="191082"]Whilst reading through this forum, a thought occurred to me regarding the ‘constant’ thing. In the first couple of series, when we are seeing flashbacks from the characters, didn’t they all in one way or another meet each other, or at least cross paths? In the airport, on the street, somehow they all met. They could all be each others ‘constant’ and that is why no-one has suffered the side effects.

    Just a thought…[/quote]
    i like that idea, but it wasnt just the characters that crossed paths it was sometimes people they knew eg.kates father was kelvins superior officer in the gulf,as well as capturing sayid.[/quote]

    Not that I think the show will turn into everyone looking for their constant, or even the O6 for that matter, but if it was necessary, the Constant has to be something important to them now and in their past.

    If folks started having these “time traveling conscious” side effects, imho, it would be poor writing to have a character travel back to the random instances where they encountered a person who is now on the island. Moreover, those random encounters did not lend themselves to be occurrences that would/should be considered important to them in both time frames. Island yes, but street corner random guy?

    Desmond was a great character, if not the best and only character, to have this effect happen to, and have it be story worthy, because one could now argue that just about everything that he has done since deciding to not ask Penny to marry him, has led him back to the point where he needed to get back in touch with her.

  569. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="190803"]
    I still believe that Frank was EXACTLY on course. To leave the island anomaly… he had to precisely fly through a specific window. If you look at his note from Daniel, it says 40 Miles N (I assume that to mean 40 nautical miles) @ 305 degrees. Then it says the freighter is 6 K (kilometers) to the East. There was even a litle diagram depicting that exact thing. We saw Frank fly that course, he said he had to wait a bit longer, while Desmond had his fit and Sayid aided. Then we saw Frank make a descending left turn (East) and then we saw the freighter just over 6 km later.
    [/quote]
    As I said in comment #43, I respectfully disagree that the copter stayed “EXACTLY” on course. When they were flying through the storm, the camera focused on the dial showing the bearing, and it seemed to move slightly, very slightly, off of 305, maybe to 305 or 307 or so. My thought is that this slight deviation was enough to trigger Desmond’s experiences.

    Another way to think about it, the writers threw in the storm to ensure that the copter went off course. If there were perfectly clear skies, there would be no reason for them to veer off of bearing 305. But they needed that to happen so the rest of the story could take place, otherwise Daniel’s statement about needing to stay on 305 would be invalid.

  570. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="190991"]i’m newly obsessed, don’t have tv, and started and finished every episode online during the last part of my pregnancy, the last 8 weeks

    question: was that picture of the ship the black rock? and i thought from find 815 site it said that it last left in 1881, and last episode said 1845? what does this have to do with anything?

    do we for sure know who the oceanic6 are?
    is sayid one or not?[/quote]
    I’d have to rewatch that scene to be sure (the transcript at Lostpedia is incomplete), but maybe they said the ship was commissioned in 1845, and not that it disappeared 1845? If so, then it’s possible it sailed many voyages until its disappearance in 1881.

    Sayid claimed to be one of the O6 in “The Economist”, and this was confirmed to be the case in a recent podcast.

  571. Tina says:

    RGS & Rita: Perhaps there are a myriad of possible ways to accomplish the same end and the actual end goal is what can’t be changed rather than the ways its is accomplished. That would fall in line with the whole change the future without changing the future idea of course correction. The man in the red shoes was supposed to die, and perhaps Mrs. Hawking tried to stop him fron dying repeatedly only to realize that he always ended up dying in some way or another. THis also eliminates the idea of pardox and doesn’t force one into the plane of alternate realities.

  572. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="191141"]
    Another way to think about it, the writers threw in the storm to ensure that the copter went off course. If there were perfectly clear skies, there would be no reason for them to veer off of bearing 305. But they needed that to happen so the rest of the story could take place, otherwise Daniel’s statement about needing to stay on 305 would be invalid.[/quote]

    I don’t think the writers just threw the storm in. As I said last week, there seems to be a storm pretty much every time someone goes to or tries to leave the island:
    -Danielle and her crew
    -Desmond
    -Losties on the raft
    -the guy in the hotair baloon (presumably)
    -Yemi (presumably)
    -the Black Rock (?)
    -Naomi
    -the four new freighter tots
    -…

  573. K. Wallin says:

    Interesting twist… the electormagnetic thing. It ties back in to the number being punched in, etc. It also brings to mind the Philadelphia Experiment (1943), which was puportedly an attempt by the Navy to make a ship invisible and involved high levels of electromagnetic energy. The crew suffered weird and sometimes fatal effects… similiar to Desmond. Google it…very interesting.

  574. Tina says:

    [quote comment="191211"][quote comment="191141"]
    Another way to think about it, the writers threw in the storm to ensure that the copter went off course. If there were perfectly clear skies, there would be no reason for them to veer off of bearing 305. But they needed that to happen so the rest of the story could take place, otherwise Daniel’s statement about needing to stay on 305 would be invalid.

    I don’t think the writers just threw the storm in. As I said last week, there seems to be a storm pretty much every time someone goes to or tries to leave the island:
    -Danielle and her crew
    -Desmond
    -Losties on the raft
    -the guy in the hotair baloon (presumably)
    -Yemi (presumably)
    -the Black Rock (?)
    -Naomi
    -the four new freighter tots
    -…[/quote]
    _____________
    Almost like someone or something is forcing the weather to bring people to the island and keep others out…cue scary & eerie music.

  575. Rita says:

    [quote comment="191181"]RGS & Rita: Perhaps there are a myriad of possible ways to accomplish the same end and the actual end goal is what can’t be changed rather than the ways its is accomplished. That would fall in line with the whole change the future without changing the future idea of course correction. The man in the red shoes was supposed to die, and perhaps Mrs. Hawking tried to stop him fron dying repeatedly only to realize that he always ended up dying in some way or another. THis also eliminates the idea of pardox and doesn’t force one into the plane of alternate realities.[/quote]
    I like this explanation. Thanks!

  576. Toeknee says:

    Hammer: Re the whispers (comments 485 and 507)…..

    I agree with your thinking that the whispers are voices of those that have died on the island, but I’m not 100% sure about the whispers and smokey being one and the same, which I think is what you’re saying. I think the whispers and smokey are on the same side, if you will – in general it seems like the whispers are providing commentary on what they’re seeing, including what they see smokey doing. I don’t think they control smokey, and I don’t think smokey controls them (despite the “I don’t want to kill him” you quoted in comment 507) . The main reason I say this is that it seems there have been scenes with smokey, but no whispers, and vice versa. It’s possible there is some other entity that controls both of them. Maybe Jacob?

    But I haven’t studied the whispers a lot so I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right about all this. In general I had thought the fact that you can actually hear things in the whispers was more of an easter egg – interesting information that may enhance the viewing experience, but is not essential. So I’ve always thought maybe we’d eventually (like, in the series finale) get an explanation for what the whispers are, but I’ve expected that the whispers are a small component of all the weird features on this island. It is intriguing, though…..

  577. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="190438"][quote comment="190310"]The time differentiation thing puzzles me a little. In an earlier episode, Faraday records that a probe sent from the boat takes longer to arrive at the island than expected. Does this mean that time is moving more slowly on the island? If so, how many days have they really been there? What a hundred “island days” in “real” time?[/quote]

    Actually to me, it seems the only time discrepancy occurs in going to and from the island. In the island “bubble.” If time were going slower or faster on the island, when Des calls Penny it would either be much later in the calendar, or much earlier, because the “bubble” discrepancy is so great that it would have to be extrapolated one way or the other.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I agree with RGS’s comments. But in rewatching the episode last night, I caught this line from Daniel to Jack & Juliet: “Your perception of how long your friends have been gone, it’s not necessarily how long they’ve actually been gone.” And I have no idea what to make of that, other than it relates to the rocket experiment that he did. I mean, from all accounts, it took the copter almost a full day to go 80 miles, so how could that not be how long they were actually gone?

  578. stormclouds13 says:

    Whew, you guys wore me out. But I had to obey the rules and read everything. So here we go:

    [quote comment="189236"]Daniel Faraday . . . anyone care to discuss the connection to Michael Faraday, the physicist and chemist after whom Faraday’s Constant is named, and one of the founders of electromagnetism? (Might be too obvious, but I was excited to see the reference).[/quote]

    I think this is really quite interesting and would like to see more discussion on it. Daniel Faraday is named after noted physicist Michael Faraday, Desmond is Daniel Faraday’s constant, so in essence, Desmond is the Faraday Constant which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_constant

    Then you have to take into consideration that Desmond is named after David Hume who theorized greatly on the philosophical concept of cause and effect.

    Tying an electromagnetic constant into cause and effect in a narrative based on conscious time travel due to electromagnetic exposure. Coincidence? I think not.

  579. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191238"]Hammer: Re the whispers (comments 485 and 507)…..

    I agree with your thinking that the whispers are voices of those that have died on the island, but I’m not 100% sure about the whispers and smokey being one and the same, which I think is what you’re saying. I think the whispers and smokey are on the same side, if you will – in general it seems like the whispers are providing commentary on what they’re seeing, including what they see smokey doing. I don’t think they control smokey, and I don’t think smokey controls them (despite the “I don’t want to kill him” you quoted in comment 507) . The main reason I say this is that it seems there have been scenes with smokey, but no whispers, and vice versa. It’s possible there is some other entity that controls both of them. Maybe Jacob?

    But I haven’t studied the whispers a lot so I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right about all this. In general I had thought the fact that you can actually hear things in the whispers was more of an easter egg – interesting information that may enhance the viewing experience, but is not essential. So I’ve always thought maybe we’d eventually (like, in the series finale) get an explanation for what the whispers are, but I’ve expected that the whispers are a small component of all the weird features on this island. It is intriguing, though…..[/quote]
    Thanks for indulging.

  580. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191246"][“Your perception of how long your friends have been gone, it’s not necessarily how long they’ve actually been gone.”

    And I have no idea what to make of that, other than it relates to the rocket experiment that he did. I mean, from all accounts, it took the copter almost a full day to go 80 miles, so how could that not be how long they were actually gone?[/quote]
    Right on. I struggled with that too, because the once they hit the freighter they were talking in real time on the phone. So if time on island is moving slower, then how do things catch up to talk to folks in real time. Sayid didn’t wait a day call, right?

  581. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="191246"]I caught this line from Daniel to Jack & Juliet: “Your perception of how long your friends have been gone, it’s not necessarily how long they’ve actually been gone.”

    And I have no idea what to make of that, other than it relates to the rocket experiment that he did. I mean, from all accounts, it took the copter almost a full day to go 80 miles, so how could that not be how long they were actually gone?[/quote]

    I think he meant that from Desmond and Sayid’s perspective, they were only gone a short time, i.e. they perceived the flight to have only taken a half-an-hour or so. From Jack et.al. perspective on the other hand, they were gone for a day or so.

    While I am getting on the side of IT=OIT (Island Time= Off Island Time), I think there is something- a barrier or something- between the two where time can be suspended in a way. Something like a time black hole where a second can take a year, and a year can take a second. Not sure this makes sense.

  582. stormclouds13 says:

    [quote comment="190905"]
    Great point! I read the Jensen interview and “In chronological order” is PER episode, obviously NOT by episode. But the contrast to that is – Des 04, Des 96, Des 04, Des 96, Des 04, Des 96, etc… in a single episode. So if the rule is true, then Des never travels back, it was purely in his reflective (psychotic) mind… occuring as we saw it in present time – that would eliminate “time travel” and endorse “astral projection”.[/quote]

    What the interview stated was that chronology is per narrative, not per episode. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to have flashbacks or flashforwards because they would be out of chronological order. They wanted to make sure we knew that Sayid killed the guy on the golf course before he went to Berlin. All of Desmond’s events in 1996 are happening chronologically, as are all of his events in 2004. So I would argue that, although they obviously overlap, those are two distinct narratives and therefore can be in two distinct time periods.

  583. Tina says:

    [quote comment="191273"][quote comment="191246"]While I am getting on the side of IT=OIT (Island Time= Off Island Time), I think there is something- a barrier or something- between the two where time can be suspended in a way. Something like a time black hole where a second can take a year, and a year can take a second. Not sure this makes sense.[/quote]

    I think this is right on! I think the time differential only occurs inside the bubble between the Island and the Not Island. I also think that the time differential is variable depending on the size, exposure to electromagnetism & radiation & materials of the objects passing through it.

  584. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191273"]
    While I am getting on the side of IT=OIT (Island Time= Off Island Time), I think there is something- a barrier or something- between the two where time can be suspended in a way. Something like a time black hole where a second can take a year, and a year can take a second. Not sure this makes sense.[/quote]
    Well it must be something like you say, because it isn’t matching up.

  585. Hammer says:

    Here’s one to think about. When Juliette was recruited and knocked out for “the ride”, do you think that being unconscience allows one to pass through without side effects?

  586. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191278"]Here’s one to think about. When Juliette was recruited and knocked out for “the ride”, do you think that being unconscience allows one to pass through without side effects?[/quote]
    Oops, did it again…unconcious.

  587. Tina says:

    [quote comment="191278"]Here’s one to think about. When Juliette was recruited and knocked out for “the ride”, do you think that being unconscience allows one to pass through without side effects?[/quote]

    It wouldn’t really make sense otherwise. Aside from not wanting people to know the direct route & mode of transport to the island, side effects ranks number one on my list of reasons to get knocked out while travelling through the bubble. Maybe people who have certain abilities (walt?ben?alpert?ethan?) can pass through it without side effects and without being knocked out and maybe those people are on the infamous “List”.

  588. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="191273"]
    I think he meant that from Desmond and Sayid’s perspective, they were only gone a short time, i.e. they perceived the flight to have only taken a half-an-hour or so. From Jack et.al. perspective on the other hand, they were gone for a day or so.

    While I am getting on the side of IT=OIT (Island Time= Off Island Time), I think there is something- a barrier or something- between the two where time can be suspended in a way. Something like a time black hole where a second can take a year, and a year can take a second. Not sure this makes sense.[/quote]
    On the freighter, Sayid said to Frank, “Then perhaps you’ll share how we left in the helicopter at dusk and landed in the day”, and in true Lost fashion, Frank did not answer. But I had taken this to mean they were travelling for many hours. Now that I think about it a little more, I suppose it’s possible their flight took only 1/2 hour. This means that somehow the Sayid/Desmond storyline picked up almost immediately after The Economist, and when they passed through the barrier or whatever, they sort of skipped over the time of the Eggtown events? Too much for my mind to handle…..

  589. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="191273"]I think he meant that from Desmond and Sayid’s perspective, they were only gone a short time, i.e. they perceived the flight to have only taken a half-an-hour or so. From Jack et.al. perspective on the other hand, they were gone for a day or so.[/quote]

    Once the helicopter arrived at the freighter, didn’t Sayid ask something about “taking off at dusk and arriving at mid-day” (I paraphrase, of course)?

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    : ) P

  590. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="189600"]
    2. If you watch the calendar part again there are random weeks that are left un-xed. It just looked really weird to me- I’m crap at finding screencaps did anyone else notice?
    [/quote]
    Here’s a screencap:

  591. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191290"][quote comment="189600"]
    2. If you watch the calendar part again there are random weeks that are left un-xed. It just looked really weird to me- I’m crap at finding screencaps did anyone else notice?
    [/quote]
    Here’s a screencap:

    http://bp2.blogger.com/_pG1kU-zfuxM/R8eBSgnj8kI/AAAAAAAAAH0/OOzacgn4Zms/s1600-h/screen-capture-11.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    There is probably something to the different colors and patterning of the colors. Where’s our math helpers?

  592. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="191286"][quote comment="191278"]Here’s one to think about. When Juliette was recruited and knocked out for “the ride”, do you think that being unconscience allows one to pass through without side effects?[/quote]

    It wouldn’t really make sense otherwise. Aside from not wanting people to know the direct route & mode of transport to the island, side effects ranks number one on my list of reasons to get knocked out while travelling through the bubble. Maybe people who have certain abilities (walt?ben?alpert?ethan?) can pass through it without side effects and without being knocked out and maybe those people are on the infamous “List”.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I agree. So presumably, Dharma Initiative employees were knocked out for their trip to the island as well? Yet Ben’s father didn’t complain about that, and we know he liked to complain about almost everything.

  593. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191238"]Hammer: Re the whispers (comments 485 and 507)…..

    I agree with your thinking that the whispers are voices of those that have died on the island, but I’m not 100% sure about the whispers and smokey being one and the same, which I think is what you’re saying. I think the whispers and smokey are on the same side, if you will – [/quote]
    I def. feel that they are related, not necessarily one in the same. Also, I don’t think the whispers are just easter eggs, I think(as you can tell) that they will end up being very important to understanding some of the mysteries.

  594. Tina says:

    I assume that Dharma employees were knocked out prior to arrival on the island, maybe the writers didn’t include Ben’s Dad’s complaint about it in order to not give away more of the story than they wanted to at the time?

    Or maybe the bubble was different, or affects people differently?

  595. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191295"]
    I agree. So presumably, Dharma Initiative employees were knocked out for their trip to the island as well? Yet Ben’s father didn’t complain about that, and we know he liked to complain about almost everything.[/quote]
    Maybe it hit the cutting room floor since they aleady dropped the hint?

  596. Tina says:

    14 red Xs
    12 blue Xs
    4 yellow Xs
    53 black Xs

  597. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191299"]I assume that Dharma employees were knocked out prior to arrival on the island, maybe the writers didn’t include Ben’s Dad’s complaint about it in order to not give away more of the story than they wanted to at the time?

    Or maybe the bubble was different, or affects people differently?[/quote]
    That’s a good point, we still haven’t seen the full extent of what has been effected by turning the key.

  598. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191304"]14 red Xs
    12 blue Xs
    4 yellow Xs
    53 black Xs[/quote]
    I’m curious about the patterning, in real life people use the color closest to their hand, but a prop guy would likely just use one color. It’s got to be an egg.

  599. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="191306"][quote comment="191299"]I assume that Dharma employees were knocked out prior to arrival on the island, maybe the writers didn’t include Ben’s Dad’s complaint about it in order to not give away more of the story than they wanted to at the time?

    Or maybe the bubble was different, or affects people differently?[/quote]
    That’s a good point, we still haven’t seen the full extent of what has been effected by turning the key.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    At one point I thought the key-turning may have changed things but then I realized Juliet and the DI folks all arrived pre-key-turning.

    In hindsight I don’t know why I bothered mentioning Ben’s Dad – of course both of you are right – they already gave us the hint with Juliet, and they can’t give away too much more of their secrets.

  600. Tina says:

    [quote comment="191310"]
    I’m curious about the patterning, in real life people use the color closest to their hand, but a prop guy would likely just use one color. It’s got to be an egg.[/quote]
    It sort of looks like different handwriting to be though..some of the Xs are hooked on the bottom and some look like they were written by someone with a shaky hand. Granted they could have have one or two prop guys making the calendar, but who knows.

    I also think its interesting that it only goes from October-December. I wonder if that’s how long the freighter has been searching for the island?

  601. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="191297"][quote comment="191238"]Hammer: Re the whispers (comments 485 and 507)…..

    I agree with your thinking that the whispers are voices of those that have died on the island, but I’m not 100% sure about the whispers and smokey being one and the same, which I think is what you’re saying. I think the whispers and smokey are on the same side, if you will – [/quote]
    I def. feel that they are related, not necessarily one in the same. Also, I don’t think the whispers are just easter eggs, I think(as you can tell) that they will end up being very important to understanding some of the mysteries.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    OK, sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were saying smokey and the whispers were the same entity.

    You may very well be right about the importance of the whispers. I am inclined to downplay their importance mostly because 99% of the viewing audience probably has no clue what they consist of. Depending on the how the whispers are explained, it may turn off many viewers – “What!? You expected us to go on the internet and track down what these whispers were!? And you tell us this NOW?!”

  602. Tina says:

    I want to know who opened the sick bay door.

  603. Tina says:

    There’s also the implication that the freighties that landed on the island, Frank, Charlotte, Miles, Naomi, & Daniel don’t know who the captain of the freighter is. In the sick bay, Keamy says he’s taking Frank to meet the captain. Doesn’t that imply he doesn’t know who he is? Who is on a ship for that long without knowing everyone on board? I smell fish. big stinky fish.

  604. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191322"][quote comment="191297"][quote comment="191238"]Hammer: Re the whispers (comments 485 and 507)…..

    I agree with your thinking that the whispers are voices of those that have died on the island, but I’m not 100% sure about the whispers and smokey being one and the same, which I think is what you’re saying. I think the whispers and smokey are on the same side, if you will – [/quote]
    I def. feel that they are related, not necessarily one in the same. Also, I don’t think the whispers are just easter eggs, I think(as you can tell) that they will end up being very important to understanding some of the mysteries.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    OK, sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were saying smokey and the whispers were the same entity.

    You may very well be right about the importance of the whispers. I am inclined to downplay their importance mostly because 99% of the viewing audience probably has no clue what they consist of. Depending on the how the whispers are explained, it may turn off many viewers – “What!? You expected us to go on the internet and track down what these whispers were!? And you tell us this NOW?!”[/quote]

    I am inclined to agree with Toe’s assessment. To even get a breakdown or the whispers required a paragraph explanation of how to do it, including sectioning off speaker lines. I would suspect that would be a tough sell to the ABC execs.

    They’ve got some brass ones, if they expect the avg. viewer to go through all that to get that info. They’ve already supposedly been quoted as saying that not all the mysteries of the island will get answers. So far, I’m anticipating 2 grab bags of explanations, one being “course correction” and the other being, unexplained mystery of the island.

  605. Rita says:

    [quote comment="191318"][quote comment="191306"][quote comment="191299"]I assume that Dharma employees were knocked out prior to arrival on the island, maybe the writers didn’t include Ben’s Dad’s complaint about it in order to not give away more of the story than they wanted to at the time?

    Or maybe the bubble was different, or affects people differently?[/quote]
    That’s a good point, we still haven’t seen the full extent of what has been effected by turning the key.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    At one point I thought the key-turning may have changed things but then I realized Juliet and the DI folks all arrived pre-key-turning.

    In hindsight I don’t know why I bothered mentioning Ben’s Dad – of course both of you are right – they already gave us the hint with Juliet, and they can’t give away too much more of their secrets.[/quote]
    Ben’s dad said he was in a car crash and then ended up on the island. He could be right, if he was unconscious from the accident and was taken by Ben’s people, injected for the trip, and awoke to find himself on the island. Plausible anyway. Just a thought.

  606. Rita says:

    It’s possible that the writers expect people to go online and get more info (ie the whispers) and in fact encourage that in order to generate more buzz about the show. Therefore, there may in the end be layers of answers to the questions. The show will stand alone, so to speak, for the average viewer but will be greatly enhanced (more answers) for those who dig deeper into the mysteries by going online and finding all that can be found. Answers may be more available for those who seek them, but the show will still make sense to those who don’t.

  607. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="191331"]There’s also the implication that the freighties that landed on the island, Frank, Charlotte, Miles, Naomi, & Daniel don’t know who the captain of the freighter is. In the sick bay, Keamy says he’s taking Frank to meet the captain. Doesn’t that imply he doesn’t know who he is? Who is on a ship for that long without knowing everyone on board? I smell fish. big stinky fish.[/quote]
    According to the transcript at Lostpedia, the line is:
    OMAR: (to Frank) Outside now. The captain wants to talk to you.

    [quote comment="191344"]It’s possible that the writers expect people to go online and get more info (ie the whispers) and in fact encourage that in order to generate more buzz about the show. Therefore, there may in the end be layers of answers to the questions. The show will stand alone, so to speak, for the average viewer but will be greatly enhanced (more answers) for those who dig deeper into the mysteries by going online and finding all that can be found. Answers may be more available for those who seek them, but the show will still make sense to those who don’t.[/quote]
    I agree, and that’s why I said I don’t think the whispers will be a significant part of the answers to the island’s mysteries. Just like The Lost Experience and Find815.com, knowledge the whispers can add to your enjoyment of the show, but now knowing about the whispers should not detract from your understanding of it.

  608. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="190555"][quote comment="190316"][quote comment="190307"]
    Did you come across a whisper sequence, (I believe it was b4 Ben’s mother appeared?) but the whisperer said something about, “I am your prisoner…and you are mine…crazy laughter.” What do you think of that one?

    I am sorry if I can’t recall when it exactly occurred, maybe when I get back from going out to eat, I can find it if you don’t know what I’m referencing.[/quote]It was when Ben was little and talking to his dead mother. IMO it was Jacob talking to Ben for the first time because the sequence was Ben heard the whisper and told his dead mother he was scared and that’s when she said it will be alright.[/quote]

    I agree – maybe he manifests into something familiar as to not scare the person. Remember Eko talking to “Yemi” – he went through a whole conversation with him and at the end – “Yemi” says something like – You don’t know who I am, do you?

    That would seem that it was someone or something appearing as Yemi – Jacob, maybe?[/quote]
    I think he said, “You think I am your brother Yemi, but I am not.”

  609. roses12 says:

    [quote]lust4lost Welcome newbie (now i’m not the newbie yeh)
    Comment 30, posted 2 days, 17 hours ago – Quote and reply
    time travel — that explains the polar bear and the french lady’s recording for 16 years — and walt appearing to john locke and telling him he has ‘work to do’[/quote]
    does that mean you think Danielle is really in the future and not on the island at all, thus explaining her frequent dissappearences?

    #146 jd great theory on 06, Aaron and the best news of all that means Sawyer could be saved!!!!

    #160 DocH how do you know the next lab animal is called Hammer? Does that mean our lostblog Hammer has known the plot all along because he’s really a conciousness from his future (labrat)self directing him to choose the name Hammer. Always thought he was insightful ;]

    #365 freckkes [quote] So…Brotha Desmond joining the monastery, running at the stadium where he bumps into Jack, and taking that photo with Penny…this was all pre-1996?
    [/quote] they dont have to be pre 1996 because when Desmond time jumped to Penny post hatch explosion he tried not to go on the boat so that happened after this jump (Des hasnt been to prison for going AWOL yet but needs to do that before abandoning Penny and joining the race)..

    and finally

    does anyone think Ben’s plant destroyed the communications aboard the ship to stop them revealing their location to the mainland? Ben does have a history of destroying communication channels.

  610. Francesco says:

    Just some musings:

    I believe flight 815 crashed on September 22 – Michael Faraday was born on September 22

    Dan Faraday commented on how the light falls on the island – Michael Farady, known partly in physics for his discovery of the Faraday effect, discovered that electromagnetism can have an effect on how light travels

  611. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191288"][quote comment="191273"]
    I think he meant that from Desmond and Sayid’s perspective, they were only gone a short time, i.e. they perceived the flight to have only taken a half-an-hour or so. From Jack et.al. perspective on the other hand, they were gone for a day or so.

    While I am getting on the side of IT=OIT (Island Time= Off Island Time), I think there is something- a barrier or something- between the two where time can be suspended in a way. Something like a time black hole where a second can take a year, and a year can take a second. Not sure this makes sense.[/quote]
    On the freighter, Sayid said to Frank, “Then perhaps you’ll share how we left in the helicopter at dusk and landed in the day”, and in true Lost fashion, Frank did not answer.

    But I had taken this to mean they were travelling for many hours. Now that I think about it a little more, I suppose it’s possible their flight took only 1/2 hour. This means that somehow the Sayid/Desmond storyline picked up almost immediately after The Economist, and when they passed through the barrier or whatever, they sort of skipped over the time of the Eggtown events? Too much for my mind to handle…..[/quote]

    Someone addressed this earlier but they stated that the island is 2 days ahead of the freightor. How does one come to that conclusion? This is the timeline from lostpedia which also says the island is 2 days ahead, but I’m missing how that conclusion is reached.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline:December_2004

    I can buy into everything else, I guess, but when I wiped my nose and saw blood I stopped trying to figure it out. I guess I will have to start wearing my old high school football helmet at work, since my computer monitor must be giving off high levels of radiation.

    Lost more than ever.

  612. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="191358"]

    Someone addressed this earlier but they stated that the island is 2 days ahead of the freightor. How does one come to that conclusion? This is the timeline from lostpedia which also says the island is 2 days ahead, but I’m missing how that conclusion is reached.

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline:December_2004

    I can buy into everything else, I guess, but when I wiped my nose and saw blood I stopped trying to figure it out. I guess I will have to start wearing my old high school football helmet at work, since my computer monitor must be giving off high levels of radiation.

    Lost more than ever.[/quote]

    I posted my thoughts on the dates in comment #302. But I’ll add that Lostpedia is like wikipedia – anyone can go in and enter any information they want, so it’s likely there are some mistakes, and I think this is one of them.

  613. Toeknee says:

    Here’s another I caught on my 2nd viewing that bothered me:

    Minkowski said Penny’s been trying to call the boat, but when Penny spoke to Charlie, Charlie asked if she was on the boat, and she said “What boat?” And that conversation with Charlie and Penny took place just a few days prior to “The Constant”.

    So, how did Minkowski know that was Penny calling if they never answered? (caller ID?) And, if she is calling the boat, why did she say “What boat?” to Charlie?

  614. DocH says:

    While I was contemplating my decision to remain in the “mind time-travel” vs. the “body time-travel” camp… I had this thought – perhaps… the Dharma food drops did not occur in the “current timeline” we’ve observed. If they were dropped above the anomaly (snowglobe), and time has been so perverted… maybe the supplies were, in fact, dropped before the Purge… while Dharma was still the boss of the island. Only, just recently, because of the Des Swan Hatch malfunction with the E-M generator, did the parachute resupply manage to make it to the surface. Heck – there be more of them up there in the ether making their way to the surface as we blog.

  615. roses12 says:

    ok working through des’ timeline, trying to keep in mind d&c dont like paradox (using lostpedia as my reference).

    des first meets penny.
    moves in with penny.
    meets widmore.
    meets charlie.
    meets hawking.
    photo.
    leaves penny.
    joins army.
    meets daniel.
    goes awol.
    in prison.
    widmore suggests race.
    meets libby.
    meets penny in US.
    meets jack.
    sails in race.
    crashes on island.
    pushes buttons.
    kills kelvin.
    815 crash.
    hooks up with losties.
    turns fail safe.
    time travels back to penny widmore meeting (moved in stage).
    relives up to photo and leaving penny.
    time travels back to island.
    saves charlie.
    accepts charlies inevitable death.
    naomi has photo.
    leaves on helicopter.
    time-shifts to army.
    meets daniel.
    tells penny he wont see her again till 04.
    on freighter.

    so mostly reads on a linear timeline, thus paradox free. except….he meets penny in the US, which we know is after his army career and persumably daniel and 24 dec 04 conversation with Penny.

    love to hear any thoughts on this?

  616. mcotter says:

    Charlie wasn’t his constant in the old seasons because Desmond hadn’t left the island and had these new side effects. He didn’t need a constant, he just saw flashes of the future.

  617. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191377"]Here’s another I caught on my 2nd viewing that bothered me:

    Minkowski said Penny’s been trying to call the boat, but when Penny spoke to Charlie, Charlie asked if she was on the boat, and she said “What boat?” And that conversation with Charlie and Penny took place just a few days prior to “The Constant”.

    So, how did Minkowski know that was Penny calling if they never answered? (caller ID?) And, if she is calling the boat, why did she say “What boat?” to Charlie?[/quote]

    It is possible that it can be explained away by, Penny frantically searching for the boat after her contact with Charlie. So Charlie contacts her, mentions a boat, conversation cuts off, Penny starts snooping around the fleet of boats Widmore Co. owns or uses, finds one rarely used one is off in the Pacific, and starts calling it.

    OR, she’s got a few teams of people looking for Des. She tells them find Des by any means necessary (does she know he went in the around the world race, I can’t remember but if she does, she had a brain fart, simply for the storytelling effect) she finds out that the freightor with Naomi’s team is in the Pacific, starts calling frantically. This assumes we don’t know exactly who Naomi works for.

    Or course correction (just throwing that out there no rhyme or reason).

    Or the future CAN be changed (that’s for Rita again no rhyme or reason).

    Or my favorite, loose writing.

  618. drawboard says:

    LostLaur wrote
    & am I the only one who thought the doctor looked familiar?

    The Doctor also plays Conrad Ecklie (Gil Grissoms boss) on CSI. I picked him out right away.

  619. datrut says:

    Minkowski said he was told to not answer pennys call. She did not know there was a boat because no one ever answered her calls, the same calls that she sent to the island. She basically had that signal over a large area.

    This gives credence to the theory that pennys dad is bens archenemy. He sends the boat asks that pennys calls never be answered.

    [quote comment="191377"]Here’s another I caught on my 2nd viewing that bothered me:

    Minkowski said Penny’s been trying to call the boat, but when Penny spoke to Charlie, Charlie asked if she was on the boat, and she said “What boat?” And that conversation with Charlie and Penny took place just a few days prior to “The Constant”.

    So, how did Minkowski know that was Penny calling if they never answered? (caller ID?) And, if she is calling the boat, why did she say “What boat?” to Charlie?[/quote]

  620. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="191399"]Charlie wasn’t his constant in the old seasons because Desmond hadn’t left the island and had these new side effects. He didn’t need a constant, he just saw flashes of the future.[/quote]

    Early in Season 3 Desmond went back in time, or his consience did, to the day he was painting his apartment for Penny to move in. He then met with Mr. Widmore, saw charlie playing guitar on the street corner. He is having dejavu throught the whole experience. He meets with a physisist friend of his and asks about time travel and is told it dosn’t exist. He goes in to buy a ring for Penny and Mrs. Hastings runs the shop. She shows him a ring he can afford and he says “I’ll take it”
    .” Mrs. Hastings then tells him he isn’t supposed to buy the ring, he is supposed to break up with Penny, go on the race, and push a button for three years. His 2004 body was pasesed out during this travel. He was with his Constant, Penny, for part of the trip.

    I think the “side effect” was not being able to “remember” both times at once and one concience taking over both bodies untill his constant was connected with.

  621. confused!!! says:

    I have two comments

    1. What happened to Desmond’s 2004 consciousness? George Michowski appears to be aware of this 2004 self so he must be traveling “BACK” with his 2004 consciousness so he is not disoriented when he is in 2004…..whilst Desmond appears to be traveling BACK and FORTH with this 1996 self….Can anyone help me?

    2. Since Naomi said “there were no survivors of Oceanic 815″ when Hurley first saw here, does that mean everyone on the island is time traveling?

  622. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="191515"]I have two comments

    1. What happened to Desmond’s 2004 consciousness? George Michowski appears to be aware of this 2004 self so he must be traveling “BACK” with his 2004 consciousness so he is not disoriented when he is in 2004…..whilst Desmond appears to be traveling BACK and FORTH with this 1996 self….Can anyone help me?

    2. Since Naomi said “there were no survivors of Oceanic 815″ when Hurley first saw here, does that mean everyone in the island is time traveling?[/quote]

    When Desmond traveled back before leaving the Island his 2004 consience was subdued, but he seemed to remember the island and Charlie and was begining to remember other things. After leaving the island and going slightly off the bering he had what Daniel call “side effects.” His 2004 consience seemed to dissapear and the 1996 consience took over both time frames in turn. Once he connected with Penny his 2004 consience returned.

  623. confused!!! says:

    Ok thanks… but do you think his 2004 consciousness has returned? It appears that he just appears calmer after having spoken to Penny but the tentative way in which he said “Sayid” made me think he was just grateful to him for having connected him with Penny but otherwise I thought he still had his 1996 conscious active.

  624. confused!!! says:

    “Not quite sure that everybody has a SINGLE constant – but the idea that people and connections can serve as a constant or anchor will certainly help explain why our Losties have crossed paths so many times before. Those moments in the past may serve as entry points for time-phasing Losties to help each other out.

    Wow. That would actually be quite trippy”

    OMG… does that mean all the references we see in the flashbacks are actually the constants for each person on the island? How you see Jack’s father is also father to Claire, you know everyone seems “connected” I mean how we see Jack and Desmond meet on the steps… does that mean Desmond is Jack’s constant?

  625. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191523"]Ok thanks… but do you think his 2004 consciousness has returned? It appears that he just appears calmer after having spoken to Penny but the tentative way in which he said “Sayid” made me think he was just grateful to him for having connected him with Penny but otherwise I thought he still had his 1996 conscious active.[/quote]

    His 2004 conscious returned, as evidenced by him calling Sayid by his name. His 96 conscious did not recognize or know Sayid at all. Moreover he said that he’s perfect.

    Also you have to remember that the travel “side effects” affect everyone differently (Daniel said as much, and he doesn’t understand why this is so) so Minkowski’s mind is traveling backwards in time, but he is retaining his 04 conscious as opposed to Desmond who retained his 96 conscious.

    Naomi says there were no survivors for a couple of plausible reasons, 1) Abbadon told her there were no survivors and she takes him at his word, 2) the plane footage at the bottom of the ocean indicates no survivors.

    It is not likely that everyone is time traveling because the brain aneurysms would be common. Also some factors are involved to induce the time traveling, and only a few characters have those factors (high electromagnetic exposure, or radiation, traveled through “bubble” of the island).

  626. confused!!! says:

    Also,
    In the last scene when Daniel is looking at his journal, the page open next to the one about Desmond being HIS constant, the graph shows a line going from point A to point B but on a scale that is on Time / Space/ Imaginary Time and Imaginary space…..what thoughts do you all have?

  627. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191338"]

    You may very well be right about the importance of the whispers. I am inclined to downplay their importance mostly because 99% of the viewing audience probably has no clue what they consist of. Depending on the how the whispers are explained, it may turn off many viewers – “What!? You expected us to go on the internet and track down what these whispers were!? And you tell us this NOW?!”[/quote]

    I am inclined to agree with Toe’s assessment. To even get a breakdown or the whispers required a paragraph explanation of how to do it, including sectioning off speaker lines. I would suspect that would be a tough sell to the ABC execs.

    They’ve got some brass ones, if they expect the avg. viewer to go through all that to get that info. They’ve already supposedly been quoted as saying that not all the mysteries of the island will get answers. So far, I’m anticipating 2 grab bags of explanations, one being “course correction” and the other being, unexplained mystery of the island.[/quote]

    Well, just because most people don’t have access to them doesn’t mean that they don’t help confirm what’s going on. They may not be important to finding out what the whispers are in the end…but they can be an important forward clue…right?

  628. Tina says:

    [quote comment="191595"][quote comment="191338"]

    You may very well be right about the importance of the whispers. I am inclined to downplay their importance mostly because 99% of the viewing audience probably has no clue what they consist of. Depending on the how the whispers are explained, it may turn off many viewers – “What!? You expected us to go on the internet and track down what these whispers were!? And you tell us this NOW?!”[/quote]

    I am inclined to agree with Toe’s assessment. To even get a breakdown or the whispers required a paragraph explanation of how to do it, including sectioning off speaker lines. I would suspect that would be a tough sell to the ABC execs.

    They’ve got some brass ones, if they expect the avg. viewer to go through all that to get that info. They’ve already supposedly been quoted as saying that not all the mysteries of the island will get answers. So far, I’m anticipating 2 grab bags of explanations, one being “course correction” and the other being, unexplained mystery of the island.[/quote]

    Well, just because most people don’t have access to them doesn’t mean that they don’t help confirm what’s going on. They may not be important to finding out what the whispers are in the end…but they can be an important forward clue…right?[/quote]
    ________
    Right!

  629. Hammer says:

    Thanks Tina. Thanks DocH, RGS, ToeKnee and anyone missed for commenting on the posts and giving them your time.

  630. Jocco says:

    Here’s my theory:

    Widmore and Hanso were obviously partners in the past. Because Hanso’s family (Black Rock)crashed on the island, Alvar learned of its location and properties. Somehow Widmore took Hanso out of the equation, but sees that people like Desmond, Locke, and Ben could take something from him (money, power, etc.).

    Now he seeks to create a paradox that can ensure he never even has to deal with Hanso. If the freighter tots can find Alpert, Widmore can use the Black Rock journal to send him back to prevent the ship from crashing. This would make Widmore the ultimate villain of the story. He must be stopped at all costs, or he will destroy time, and I’ll bet the numbers will have something to do with it as well.

    My nose is bleeding again.

  631. Tina says:

    [quote comment="191672"]Here’s my theory:

    Widmore and Hanso were obviously partners in the past. Because Hanso’s family (Black Rock)crashed on the island, Alvar learned of its location and properties. Somehow Widmore took Hanso out of the equation, but sees that people like Desmond, Locke, and Ben could take something from him (money, power, etc.).

    Now he seeks to create a paradox that can ensure he never even has to deal with Hanso. If the freighter tots can find Alpert, Widmore can use the Black Rock journal to send him back to prevent the ship from crashing. This would make Widmore the ultimate villain of the story. He must be stopped at all costs, or he will destroy time, and I’ll bet the numbers will have something to do with it as well.

    My nose is bleeding again.[/quote]
    Ambitious, involves pirating to a certain degree. I like it. Good job!

  632. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="191672"]Here’s my theory:

    Widmore and Hanso were obviously partners in the past. Because Hanso’s family (Black Rock)crashed on the island, Alvar learned of its location and properties. Somehow Widmore took Hanso out of the equation, but sees that people like Desmond, Locke, and Ben could take something from him (money, power, etc.).

    Now he seeks to create a paradox that can ensure he never even has to deal with Hanso. If the freighter tots can find Alpert, Widmore can use the Black Rock journal to send him back to prevent the ship from crashing. This would make Widmore the ultimate villain of the story. He must be stopped at all costs, or he will destroy time, and I’ll bet the numbers will have something to do with it as well.

    My nose is bleeding again.[/quote]
    The only problem I have with that is that Widmore WOULD be time-traveling if that was the case. I think you can only travel to a time when you were actualy ALIVE, not to times before.

  633. Scott says:

    Forgive me if this has been asked already but the body of Naomi was never mentioned last week. They loaded her on the helicopter when leaving the island.

    The reason I wonder about that is because they seemed to continually show her body in the previous two episoides making it appear they want to remind you that she is REALLY dead here folks. Makes me wonder that if you die on the island but then leave through the storm or whatever it is would you then be alive on the other side? Des totally forgot what happend on the island and that was his side effect. Would there be an effect on a dead body coming back from another time? I wonder if they just plan to drop that whole caracter now.

  634. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191730"][quote comment="191672"]Here’s my theory:

    Widmore and Hanso were obviously partners in the past. Because Hanso’s family (Black Rock)crashed on the island, Alvar learned of its location and properties. Somehow Widmore took Hanso out of the equation, but sees that people like Desmond, Locke, and Ben could take something from him (money, power, etc.).

    Now he seeks to create a paradox that can ensure he never even has to deal with Hanso. If the freighter tots can find Alpert, Widmore can use the Black Rock journal to send him back to prevent the ship from crashing. This would make Widmore the ultimate villain of the story. He must be stopped at all costs, or he will destroy time, and I’ll bet the numbers will have something to do with it as well.

    My nose is bleeding again.[/quote]
    The only problem I have with that is that Widmore WOULD be time-traveling if that was the case. I think you can only travel to a time when you were actualy ALIVE, not to times before.[/quote]
    Also, the rat was able to travel to a time in the future. What if you are able to travel to a time when you are not alive? I wonder if the rat died before the hour that it traveled to learn the maze?

  635. Rita says:

    I’ve been thinking about the whole idea of whether or not the future can be changed and although the writers SEEM to be going out of their way to say it CAN’T, they keep demonstrating that it CAN. Bear with me here:
    1. We already talked about Eloise’s future being changed (she dies BEFORE she actually learned the maze, though she had learned it in her future).
    2. Desmond’s visions: He keeps saying that if something does not happen exactly the way he saw it, it would change other things (ie if Charlie didn’t die Claire and Aaron would not get onto the helicopter).
    3. Charlie didn’t die the way Desmond first saw (in his vision) so he was able to live long enough to affect other things. Yes, he still died, but he wouldn’t have turned off the communications jammer or talked to Penny if he had died earlier, as per any of Desmond’s visions.
    4. Even if you claim “course correction” and say that SOMEONE ELSE would have done what Charlie did at the looking glass hatch, it would STILL have been a changed future. Would someone else have died? (def. a changed future for someone else then!) If they lived, would they have still gotten the message from Penny? (remember that Charlie was able to log in the code because he was a musician). I say, it would still have been a changed future and put a whole other set of things into play.
    5. The Black Rock Journal: If Widmore does try to manipulate things by using the journal (making some assumptions about its contents here), then it could conceivably change future events, including the arrival of the losties.
    6. Any of these changes seem small in the overall scheme of things, but small changes lead to exponentially HUGE changes as they are multiplied over time.
    Thoughts, please! And thank you.

  636. David Banner says:

    [quote comment="191731"]Forgive me if this has been asked already but the body of Naomi was never mentioned last week. They loaded her on the helicopter when leaving the island.

    The reason I wonder about that is because they seemed to continually show her body in the previous two episoides making it appear they want to remind you that she is REALLY dead here folks. Makes me wonder that if you die on the island but then leave through the storm or whatever it is would you then be alive on the other side? Des totally forgot what happend on the island and that was his side effect. Would there be an effect on a dead body coming back from another time? I wonder if they just plan to drop that whole caracter now.[/quote]

    Do we know if a spidr was on the copter when it flew through, because if a spider bit Sayeed, he may have super-strength as a side effect, and that’s y he gave up his gun, because he figures u guys can’t kill me anyway.

    If they had not showed Naimi anymore we wuld probably say she’s alive o the island lookin for Bin.

  637. Hammer says:

    Rita, no extra thoughts. I think you have it…

  638. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191731"]Forgive me if this has been asked already but the body of Naomi was never mentioned last week. They loaded her on the helicopter when leaving the island.

    The reason I wonder about that is because they seemed to continually show her body in the previous two episoides making it appear they want to remind you that she is REALLY dead here folks. Makes me wonder that if you die on the island but then leave through the storm or whatever it is would you then be alive on the other side? Des totally forgot what happend on the island and that was his side effect. Would there be an effect on a dead body coming back from another time? I wonder if they just plan to drop that whole caracter now.[/quote]
    I’m gonna guess that they likely shot a scene showing her being unloaded, but didn’t have enough time during this action packed episode, I bet they address it later.

  639. Jocco says:

    Miraks-Widmore couldn’t go to the past himself. He would need the cooperation of someone that was on the Black Rock, someone like Richard Alpert. And yes, I understand that that would mean no one goes to the island, and yet Widmore would still know about it. That’s what a paradox is.

  640. lostsurvivor says:

    one question: would aaron be considered one of the oceanic 6? i guess he wasn’t technically on the flight log.

    also, i keep remembering back to one of the first seasons when the pyschic tells claire not to have the baby. cant wait to see how that one plays out.

  641. Rita says:

    [quote comment="191751"]one question: would aaron be considered one of the oceanic 6? i guess he wasn’t technically on the flight log.

    also, i keep remembering back to one of the first seasons when the pyschic tells claire not to have the baby. cant wait to see how that one plays out.[/quote]
    The psychic does not tell Claire to not have the baby. He tells her that she MUST raise the baby herself. Then he tells her that she needs to give the baby up to a couple in California (a ruse to get her onto the plane which he knew would crash and ensure that Claire KEEPS the baby).

  642. RGS says:

    Rita 636

    I’ve actually been waiting for the other shoe to drop on this. Ultimately you are right in that the future does appear to change, as technically the details do change. Therefore, I believe the writer’s would chalk up these as “minor details” and factors that contribute to the predestined event, and hence their catch-all “course correction” phrase would come into play.

    What you mention in point 6, and touch on in pt. 4, is the Butterfly Effect in a timeline.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_paradox.

    All I am suggesting is that it is the writer’s belief and intent to state that one can’t change the future. We believe however that it is extremely difficult to make that kind of assertion w/o the result ultimately being a circular line of reasoning. As once information is passed back in time, that information affects everything else if acted upon. In addition, that information that comes from the future, is supposed to be the RESULT of the past, not CAUSING the past.

    Moreover, a problem arises when you introduce a paradox involving death. Death is inevitable. Could Desmond have spent the rest of his life preventing the myriad ways that Charlie would die? At what point does the exact way Charlie dies become a predestined event? At some point it would happen, and where would the blame lie? (That’s a whole other tangent issue). But to answer your statements, imho, I think the writer’s will try to resolve them by:

    1) course correction/predestination. Rat was going to learn maze regardless, how it ultimately happens doesn’t matter, he was destined to learn it, and you can’t change that. She dies in the 75 min. Des is out. It is therefore within the acceptable timeframe of 1 hour for her learning the maze to occur in HER timeline.

    2-4 You’ve actually walked through the predestination course correction argument. Though the details change the overall big picture “predestined event” does not. (Yes therein lies the problem again, what is predestined and what isn’t? a question better suited for philosophers).

    There are definitely inconsistencies from the way the story is being presented from a time traveling perspective. For example Ms. Hawkings tells Desmond you can’t change the future. Well if she knows she can’t change it, why bother to tell Desmond, “no you don’t buy the ring, blah, blah, blah” as, even if he does buy the ring, the events will still take place if you can’t change the future.

    So while you can make a compelling argument, that I would probably ultimately agree with, I am just stating that the writer’s seem to be going out of their way to state one can’t change the future. Based on character dialogue (Ms.H, Dan ’96), actions (Des trying to save Charlie but continually seeing his death), and their podcasts.

  643. David Banner says:

    [quote comment="191761"]Rita 636

    I’ve actually been waiting for the other shoe to drop on this. Ultimately you are right in that the future does appear to change, as technically the details do change. Therefore, I believe the writer’s would chalk up these as “minor details” and factors that contribute to the predestined event, and hence their catch-all “course correction” phrase would come into play.

    What you mention in point 6, and touch on in pt. 4, is the Butterfly Effect in a timeline.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_paradox.

    All I am suggesting is that it is the writer’s belief and intent to state that one can’t change the future. We believe however that it is extremely difficult to make that kind of assertion w/o the result ultimately being a circular line of reasoning. As once information is passed back in time, that information affects everything else if acted upon. In addition, that information that comes from the future, is supposed to be the RESULT of the past, not CAUSING the past.

    Moreover, a problem arises when you introduce a paradox involving death. Death is inevitable. Could Desmond have spent the rest of his life preventing the myriad ways that Charlie would die? At what point does the exact way Charlie dies become a predestined event? At some point it would happen, and where would the blame lie? (That’s a whole other tangent issue). But to answer your statements, imho, I think the writer’s will try to resolve them by:

    1) course correction/predestination. Rat was going to learn maze regardless, how it ultimately happens doesn’t matter, he was destined to learn it, and you can’t change that. She dies in the 75 min. Des is out. It is therefore within the acceptable timeframe of 1 hour for her learning the maze to occur in HER timeline.

    2-4 You’ve actually walked through the predestination course correction argument. Though the details change the overall big picture “predestined event” does not. (Yes therein lies the problem again, what is predestined and what isn’t? a question better suited for philosophers).

    There are definitely inconsistencies from the way the story is being presented from a time traveling perspective. For example Ms. Hawkings tells Desmond you can’t change the future. Well if she knows she can’t change it, why bother to tell Desmond, “no you don’t buy the ring, blah, blah, blah” as, even if he does buy the ring, the events will still take place if you can’t change the future.

    So while you can make a compelling argument, that I would probably ultimately agree with, I am just stating that the writer’s seem to be going out of their way to state one can’t change the future. Based on character dialogue (Ms.H, Dan ’96), actions (Des trying to save Charlie but continually seeing his death), and their podcasts.[/quote]

    If I’m not clear, I’m not stating you are wrong, I’m playing more of a devil’s advocate from what I think the writer’s perspective is.

  644. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191741"]I’ve been thinking about the whole idea of whether or not the future can be changed and although the writers SEEM to be going out of their way to say it CAN’T, they keep demonstrating that it CAN. Bear with me here:
    1. We already talked about Eloise’s future being changed (she dies BEFORE she actually learned the maze, though she had learned it in her future).
    2. Desmond’s visions: He keeps saying that if something does not happen exactly the way he saw it, it would change other things (ie if Charlie didn’t die Claire and Aaron would not get onto the helicopter).
    3. Charlie didn’t die the way Desmond first saw (in his vision) so he was able to live long enough to affect other things. Yes, he still died, but he wouldn’t have turned off the communications jammer or talked to Penny if he had died earlier, as per any of Desmond’s visions.
    4. Even if you claim “course correction” and say that SOMEONE ELSE would have done what Charlie did at the looking glass hatch, it would STILL have been a changed future. Would someone else have died? (def. a changed future for someone else then!) If they lived, would they have still gotten the message from Penny? (remember that Charlie was able to log in the code because he was a musician). I say, it would still have been a changed future and put a whole other set of things into play.
    5. The Black Rock Journal: If Widmore does try to manipulate things by using the journal (making some assumptions about its contents here), then it could conceivably change future events, including the arrival of the losties.
    6. Any of these changes seem small in the overall scheme of things, but small changes lead to exponentially HUGE changes as they are multiplied over time.
    Thoughts, please! And thank you.[/quote]

    I also just thought of something, Desmond attempting to save Charlie’s life over and over again was predestined. He was going to try to do that anyway. Thus he never really changed the future, because he was always going to save Charlie’s life, thinking he was changing the future. That’s another way and possibly the writer’s way of looking at it.

  645. Tina says:

    [quote comment="191761"]Rita 636

    I’ve actually been waiting for the other shoe to drop on this. Ultimately you are right in that the future does appear to change, as technically the details do change. Therefore, I believe the writer’s would chalk up these as “minor details” and factors that contribute to the predestined event, and hence their catch-all “course correction” phrase would come into play.

    Moreover, a problem arises when you introduce a paradox involving death. Death is inevitable. Could Desmond have spent the rest of his life preventing the myriad ways that Charlie would die? At what point does the exact way Charlie dies become a predestined event? At some point it would happen, and where would the blame lie? (That’s a whole other tangent issue). But to answer your statements, imho, I think the writer’s will try to resolve them …

    2-4 You’ve actually walked through the predestination course correction argument. Though the details change the overall big picture “predestined event” does not. (Yes therein lies the problem again, what is predestined and what isn’t? a question better suited for philosophers).
    [/quote]

    This is where I go back to my belief in the myriad of possible futures theory. If there are an infinite number of possiblities floating out there in the ether, theoretically “set in stone” they still only become a reality when they are actualized through personal choice. Those choices are both pre-ordained (i hate the word predestination it takes me back to John Calvin, ick)and choosable simultaneously.
    You’re right, Desmond could have spent his life trying to avoid “allowing” Charlie to die and theoretically could have prevented it for X number of days, weeks, years etc, however could not have avoided the inevitablility of his eventual death. What he prevented was not in fact his death, but his death by certain means, i.e drowning, getting head wacked by that arrow, etc. Charlie’s “future” was to die, which he chose to allow after he fixed the jamming in the Looking Glass Hatch. The future was both changed and unchanged. Perhaps the things Desmond saw of Charlie’s “future” where engineered by the PTBs to guide Desmond & Charlie to their inevitable futures, unjamming the signal and sacrificing himself and well, whatever Desmond ends up doing.

    There’s no logical reason for Ms. Hawkings to tell Desmond NOT to buy the ring if she truly believed in the inevitability of his purchase. However, if she said nothing, what possibility would have been actualized by Desmond? We don’t know. However, I think it highly likely that he still would not have married Penny and still ended up on the island, because the PTBs have a knack for getting their way.

  646. katesFriend says:

    RGS, i went to the wiki cite you provided, and found this one too:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_paradox

    sound familiar???

    i agree that small things can be changed (ie how charlie actually dies, when dan figures out the equation) but the end result is always the same

  647. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191798"]RGS, i went to the wiki cite you provided, and found this one too:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_paradox

    sound familiar???

    i agree that small things can be changed (ie how charlie actually dies, when dan figures out the equation) but the end result is always the same[/quote]

    That is an even better link. Thanks!

  648. Christos says:

    An interesting anagram of the auction house Southfield’s:

    Shifted Soul

    and the funny ones:

    Fished Lotus
    Lofted Sushi

  649. Rita says:

    [quote comment="191805"][quote comment="191798"]RGS, i went to the wiki cite you provided, and found this one too:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_paradox

    sound familiar???

    i agree that small things can be changed (ie how charlie actually dies, when dan figures out the equation) but the end result is always the same[/quote]

    That is an even better link. Thanks![/quote]

    I went to the link (Thank you to you and katesfriend). I understand what you are saying but I think the “butterfly effects” are too great to ignore or chalk up to “course correction”. Therefore, I have to remember that this won’t make perfect sense because IT ISN’T REAL. I guess with that in mind, I will enjoy it (A LOT!!!) for what it is.

  650. Michael says:

    Does anyone else think that Thomas ( the kid who get s Clair pregnant) looks a lot like a younger Ben.

  651. PJSander says:

    I love all these theories about time shifts and course correction and conscious travel… it makes me dizzy, but I love them!

    One thing that comes to mind as I try to figure out what everyone means and how the different theories play out, is that D&C said in their podcast that the future cannot be changed with respect to the flash forwards we have already seen. In other words, some change that Desmond or anyone else who may or may not be conscious traveling will not make a flash forward we have already seen become different. We aren’t going to see a different version of Sayid killing or not killing Else. She will die at his hand exactly as we saw it.

    However, they did use very unusual parameters when describing changing the future, they qualified it very specifically. So I suspect that perhaps the future that we saw in a flash forward IS a changed future. If that makes sense.

    I think I just confused myself! LOL

    : ) P

  652. DocH says:

    More Devils’ Advocacy… I think that too many theories above buy into the “you can’t change the future” postulate, used as the basis for the underlying hypothesis.

    Fatalism, destiny, kharma are all noble outcomes, but what if each and every factor exactly influences genuine outcome (ala butterfly or ripple effect). Charlie dying because of the lightning strike or trying to save Claire may have provided an entirely different outcome for the island inhabitants, beneficial or punitive. Same for Naomi surviving to continue her mission. What would life be like if Eco were still in the fight?

    The inputs by Ms. Hawkings may have been entirely selfish. She may have told Desmond what she did for one reason – to influence her greater good (+those she works with/for), and nothing so noble as what she implied.

  653. Rita says:

    [quote comment="191829"]More Devils’ Advocacy… I think that too many theories above buy into the “you can’t change the future” postulate, used as the basis for the underlying hypothesis.

    Fatalism, destiny, kharma are all noble outcomes, but what if each and every factor exactly influences genuine outcome (ala butterfly or ripple effect). Charlie dying because of the lightning strike or trying to save Claire may have provided an entirely different outcome for the island inhabitants, beneficial or punitive. Same for Naomi surviving to continue her mission. What would life be like if Eco were still in the fight?

    The inputs by Ms. Hawkings may have been entirely selfish. She may have told Desmond what she did for one reason – to influence her greater good (+those she works with/for), and nothing so noble as what she implied.[/quote]
    Hah!! I’m liking this, DocH!!

  654. DocH says:

    [quote comment="191830"]
    Hah!! I’m liking this, DocH!!
    [/quote]
    Fate, destiny and kharma are the tools the sheepdog uses to get the sheep to follow him to safety. The wolf also uses the same tools to get the sheep to run into harms’ way.

    The wise sheep is the one that can tell the difference between the sheepdog and the wolf, trusting neither, and making only the wisest of choices with every step, rarely relying on emotion, intuition or fear of a predestined future.

  655. PJSander says:

    With respect to changing the future, here is the transcript from the pertinent part of the podcast (The asterisk * notes words that I feel are important. Capital letters note words that D&C emphasized.):

    DAMON: We are very paradox-averse. That is to say, when our characters are time-traveling, nothing that they do can change the present or the future *that you have seen.*

    *snip*

    CARLTON: For us, what we don’t want is for the audience to not be invested in the flash forwards. When you see that, it would be pretty meaningless if they were a changeable reality.

    DAMON: Well, as far as time-travel goes…

    CARLTON: As far as time-travel goes…

    DAMON: As far as TIME-TRAVEL GOES, definitely not changeable.

    CARLTON: Right, or that you have a different Jack popping up in an alternative reality which is different from the one we established.

    End quote. *g*

    : ) P

  656. DocH says:

    [quote comment="191885"]
    DAMON: We are very paradox-averse. That is to say, when our characters are time-traveling, nothing that they do can change the present or the future “that you have seen.”
    [/quote]
    A perfect example of what a sheepdog (or wolf) says to the flock. I live a linear life. So far I think the last point in time is Jack & Kate at the runway – having a we need to go back moment. I don’t think anything “that we have seen” will be recanted, per the producers. Except “flashes”, which can be “course corrected”. There are a thousand separate forks in the road between the freighter and “we have to go back Kate.” Maybe half of the forks eventually arrive in the same destiny, we just won’t a know a single thing until they walk us down the path and show us – one episode at a time. (43 to go).

  657. Lostie says:

    [quote comment="191354"]Just some musings:

    I believe flight 815 crashed on September 22 – Michael Faraday was born on September 22

    Dan Faraday commented on how the light falls on the island – Michael Farady, known partly in physics for his discovery of the Faraday effect, discovered that electromagnetism can have an effect on how light travels[/quote]

    I was curious if anyone thought that the “cloud” that Frank/Desmond/Sayid flew through was not a storm but a “cloud” of electromagnetism- maybe like the black smoke. The coordinates that they needed to stay on were the “hole” to this cloud. Maybe someone commented on this already and i missed it but I was curious if that may also be why the light scatters in a different way on the island or may have something to do with the way the sky turned purple when Desmond turned the key.

  658. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="191924"]A perfect example of what a sheepdog (or wolf) says to the flock. I live a linear life. So far I think the last point in time is Jack & Kate at the runway – having a we need to go back moment. I don’t think anything “that we have seen” will be recanted, per the producers. Except “flashes”, which can be “course corrected”. There are a thousand separate forks in the road between the freighter and “we have to go back Kate.” Maybe half of the forks eventually arrive in the same destiny, we just won’t a know a single thing until they walk us down the path and show us – one episode at a time. (43 to go).[/quote]
    Uh oh, your clarity here is making my Lostie senses tingle. ;)

  659. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191835"][quote comment="191830"]
    Hah!! I’m liking this, DocH!!
    [/quote]
    Fate, destiny and kharma are the tools the sheepdog uses to get the sheep to follow him to safety. The wolf also uses the same tools to get the sheep to run into harms’ way.

    The wise sheep is the one that can tell the difference between the sheepdog and the wolf, trusting neither, and making only the wisest of choices with every step, rarely relying on emotion, intuition or fear of a predestined future.[/quote]

    Hmmm… I bet a sheep will often meet with its destiny on the path the sheep took to avoid it. For the willing, destiny guides them, for the unwilling, destiny drags them.

    Maybe the writers would say that your sheep thinks they are making all these wise decisions, but alas those decisions were already made long before they thought they would make them.

    “Lossst will work it out (if you let it), Lossst will work it out (if you let it).”

  660. DocH says:

    [quote comment="191949"]
    Uh oh, your clarity here is making my Lostie senses tingle. ;)
    [/quote]
    S’all good. Hurley’s imaginary friend Dave explained it all to me. We share a room here in the Santa Rosa mental health facility. They share a king sized bed (?). Our “friend” Charlie is coming by later for some four-handed full-tilt poker. Double wink-grin back atcha.
    [the air is kinda thin here.]

    Lighten up folks – life is good – LOST humor is better.

  661. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="191994"]“Lossst will work it out (if you let it), Lossst will work it out (if you let it).”[/quote]

    As Sawyer told Locke, “Baaa.”

    LOL

    : ) P

  662. DocH says:

    [quote comment="191999"]
    As Sawyer told Locke, “Baaa.”
    [/quote]
    Perfect. You just reminded where I got all of my inspiration… Sawyer / James Ford.

    No – seriously.

    ABC has always listed just 4 major actors in its LOST media releases. Fox, Lily, O’Quinn and HOLLOWAY. They all will definitely figure in thee final episode. I think James will be come SO important in the last 3 seasons. See the change recently… he is closer to Jack, Ben, Kate and Locke than ever, yet – riding the fence between all camps. We need a ‘pertinent’ Sawyer-centric, soon!

    James ‘Sawyer’ Ford… smartest of the sheep? dumbest sheepdog ever? very clever wolf?

  663. Found says:

    You can’t change the future because the future will always wind up becoming what it was always meant to be… the future! ha just a little zen humor…

  664. Rita says:

    [quote comment="191994"][quote comment="191835"][quote comment="191830"]
    Hah!! I’m liking this, DocH!!
    [/quote]
    Fate, destiny and kharma are the tools the sheepdog uses to get the sheep to follow him to safety. The wolf also uses the same tools to get the sheep to run into harms’ way.

    The wise sheep is the one that can tell the difference between the sheepdog and the wolf, trusting neither, and making only the wisest of choices with every step, rarely relying on emotion, intuition or fear of a predestined future.[/quote]

    Hmmm… I bet a sheep will often meet with its destiny on the path the sheep took to avoid it.

    For the willing, destiny guides them, for the unwilling, destiny drags them.

    Maybe the writers would say that your sheep thinks they are making all these wise decisions, but alas those decisions were already made long before they thought they would make them.

    “Lossst will work it out (if you let it), Lossst will work it out (if you let it).”[/quote]
    OK so DocH, I think that makes James/Sawyer/Ford one who sees himself as the “wise sheep” who follows neither sheepdog nor wolf, but imagines that he makes his own decisions. Problem with sheep is that they tend to follow who/whatever appears to be leading. Maybe the sheep will follow him.

  665. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="190725"][quote comment="190656"][quote comment="189466"]
    I still say there are conversations missing about food and sex. People on an island would be thinking about food all the time like Prisoners in a camp did. And there’s got to be some more sex; Why not a scene where some guy is whacking off and gets walked in on? That would be funny. Maybe it would break some taboos but more in line with reality!
    If Jimmy Kimmel can sing about F##king Ben Affleck on Network TV….we can have at least a fraction of real life situations on LOST re sex. It’s just that it gets so many other things just right. Less Polar bear and more bear asses? Just not Hurley…[/quote]

    Are you in Junior High??? I, for one, am very happy that at least one TV show doesn’t need to use sex to get viewers. This is about the only show on TV that actually stimulates your mind instead of something lower! Please see that as a huge movement in the right direction.[/quote]

    No Joel;
    I live in a world where sex and food are integral and not considered “”something lower” as you put it. When characters on the show act as if those things don’t exist it takes away from the story for me.
    Oh, and thanks for being kind and helpful, not.

  666. RGS says:

    [quote comment="191885"]
    CARLTON: For us, what we don’t want is for the audience to not be invested in the flash forwards. When you see that, it would be pretty meaningless if they were a changeable reality.

    DAMON: Well, as far as time-travel goes…

    CARLTON: As far as time-travel goes…

    DAMON: As far as TIME-TRAVEL GOES, definitely not changeable.

    : ) P[/quote]

    What in the heck else could they be referencing as far as changeable reality? I’m missing that, are they saying there is potential for episodes to be imaginary? Are we going to have to keep our eyes open for a dream sequence episode?

  667. Tim says:

    You can’t change the past. Here is an example of why.

    If someone in 2008 went back to stop Hitler from becoming the German chancellor and starting WWII, then Hitler wouldn’t have caused all the trouble he did.
    So then, nobody would go back and do whatever they had to to stop Hitler from becoming the German chancellor, because he didn’t cause any trouble in this altered history.
    So he would become chancellor of Germany and start WWII because of the lack of intervention.

  668. Rita says:

    [quote comment="192145"]You can’t change the past. Here is an example of why.

    If someone in 2008 went back to stop Hitler from becoming the German chancellor and starting WWII, then Hitler wouldn’t have caused all the trouble he did.
    So then, nobody would go back and do whatever they had to to stop Hitler from becoming the German chancellor, because he didn’t cause any trouble in this altered history.
    So he would become chancellor of Germany and start WWII because of the lack of intervention.[/quote]
    Sorry, don’t think I follow you. Explain please.

  669. Found says:

    Perhaps the phrase “You can’t change the future” is more of a doctrine of time travelers, not a “law” of quantum physics. Similar to Star Treks “Prime Directive” of not interfering with developing planets progress timeline.

  670. Jocco says:

    I watch Lost so that I can escape from a world filled with people eating and whacking off.

  671. lostfreak14 says:

    great episode. i’m glad to see LOST getting back to the freaky stuff.

  672. rdizzle says:

    [quote comment="190097"]So maybe Miss Clue is still alive along with Patchy. More clues to come hopefully :)[/quote]

    who the heck is Miss Clue and Patchy? Am I watching the same show as you guys?!

  673. Rita says:

    [quote comment="192109"][quote comment="190725"][quote comment="190656"][quote comment="189466"]
    I still say there are conversations missing about food and sex. People on an island would be thinking about food all the time like Prisoners in a camp did. And there’s got to be some more sex; Why not a scene where some guy is whacking off and gets walked in on? That would be funny. Maybe it would break some taboos but more in line with reality!
    If Jimmy Kimmel can sing about F##king Ben Affleck on Network TV….we can have at least a fraction of real life situations on LOST re sex. It’s just that it gets so many other things just right. Less Polar bear and more bear asses? Just not Hurley…[/quote]

    Are you in Junior High??? I, for one, am very happy that at least one TV show doesn’t need to use sex to get viewers. This is about the only show on TV that actually stimulates your mind instead of something lower! Please see that as a huge movement in the right direction.[/quote]

    No Joel;
    I live in a world where sex and food are integral and not considered “”something lower” as you put it. When characters on the show act as if those things don’t exist it takes away from the story for me.
    Oh, and thanks for being kind and helpful, not.[/quote]

    ****************************************
    Bobola, there actually WAS an episode between Nikki, Paulo, and Claire, like the one you describe above. When the losties first arrived, food was the focus for most of the first season, and the first half of the second season. I think the writers feel they have addressed these baser matters and can move on to bigger and better, more thought provoking issues. Personally, I love a good intellectual challenge. Reading everyone’s thoughts and theories has sharpened my logic skills and forced me to think more deeply about what I think and why I think it. If the show was ONLY about what we see everyday on the surface, I think it wouldn’t really hold our interest for long. Instead, it is one of our time’s most fun, challenging, and thinking puzzles. That’s why we are all here. Something for everybody.

  674. rdizzle says:

    ummm… I don’t know if this has any significance, but if you look at the books in both of these screencaps, they’re the same books. I knwo Lost likes to use a lot of book references, so maybe this is another clue. Either they want us to see these books, or they were lazy and didn’t feel like finding more book props. :) Personally, i think i’m overanalyzing. I tried reading the title of the dark book in the screenshot with the calender, and all I can get is, “American xxxx xxxx Manual” Can someone figure out the other two words? the book is upside down.

  675. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192296"]ummm… I don’t know if this has any significance, but if you look at the books in both of these screencaps, they’re the same books. I knwo Lost likes to use a lot of book references, so maybe this is another clue. Either they want us to see these books, or they were lazy and didn’t feel like finding more book props. :)

    Personally, i think i’m overanalyzing.

    I tried reading the title of the dark book in the screenshot with the calender, and all I can get is, “American xxxx xxxx Manual”

    Can someone figure out the other two words?

    the book is upside down.

    http://bp1.blogger.com/_pG1kU-zfuxM/R8eBKQnj8jI/AAAAAAAAAHs/hv64yUTYnac/s1600-h/screen-capture-10.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    Hmmmmm…interesting because that photo of the calendar is different from the one I posted in comment #591:

    Which one is from the actual televised show?

    At any rate, the book’s title is “American Merchant Seaman’s Manual”

  676. ANON2 says:

    @rdizzle

    “American xxxx xxxx Manual” is

    “AMERICAN MERCHANT SEAMAN’S MANUAL”

    Seventh Edition
    written by –
    William B. Hayler and John M. Keever
    “For Seamen by Seamen”
    Pub Date: 2003
    Size: 6 x 9
    ISBN: 0-87033-549-9
    Price:$60.00

    Updated edition of the primary seamanship text and reference for the American Merchant Marine for over 60 years. Includes new chapters on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers and revised chapter on wire rope. Trusted.

  677. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="192109"][quote comment="190725"][quote comment="190656"][quote comment="189466"]
    I still say there are conversations missing about food and sex. People on an island would be thinking about food all the time like Prisoners in a camp did. And there’s got to be some more sex; Why not a scene where some guy is whacking off and gets walked in on? That would be funny. Maybe it would break some taboos but more in line with reality!
    If Jimmy Kimmel can sing about F##king Ben Affleck on Network TV….we can have at least a fraction of real life situations on LOST re sex. It’s just that it gets so many other things just right. Less Polar bear and more bear asses? Just not Hurley…[/quote]

    Are you in Junior High??? I, for one, am very happy that at least one TV show doesn’t need to use sex to get viewers. This is about the only show on TV that actually stimulates your mind instead of something lower! Please see that as a huge movement in the right direction.[/quote]

    No Joel;
    I live in a world where sex and food are integral and not considered “”something lower” as you put it. When characters on the show act as if those things don’t exist it takes away from the story for me.
    Oh, and thanks for being kind and helpful, not.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    We also don’t see scenes on this or most any other show about people going to the bathroom either, which I think you agree everyone needs to do. The wrighter put in only what is needed to tell the story. They only have 40 minutes a week to fit everything in and I’m glad they don’t put scenes about sex or food in just to have them. When they feel it’s important to the story they add it.

  678. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="192300"]@rdizzle

    “American xxxx xxxx Manual” is

    “AMERICAN MERCHANT SEAMAN’S MANUAL”

    Seventh Edition
    written by –
    William B. Hayler and John M. Keever
    “For Seamen by Seamen”
    Pub Date: 2003
    Size: 6 x 9
    ISBN: 0-87033-549-9
    Price:$60.00

    Updated edition of the primary seamanship text and reference for the American Merchant Marine for over 60 years. Includes new chapters on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers and revised chapter on wire rope. Trusted.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    The book is also upside down in both pictures.

  679. Rita says:

    [quote comment="192300"]@rdizzle

    “American xxxx xxxx Manual” is

    “AMERICAN MERCHANT SEAMAN’S MANUAL”

    Seventh Edition
    written by –
    William B. Hayler and John M. Keever
    “For Seamen by Seamen”
    Pub Date: 2003
    Size: 6 x 9
    ISBN: 0-87033-549-9
    Price:$60.00

    Updated edition of the primary seamanship text and reference for the American Merchant Marine for over 60 years. Includes new chapters on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers and revised chapter on wire rope. Trusted.[/quote]
    Is this manual something that would be used ONLY by AMERICAN sailors?

  680. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="192299"][quote comment="192296"]ummm… I don’t know if this has any significance, but if you look at the books in both of these screencaps, they’re the same books. I knwo Lost likes to use a lot of book references, so maybe this is another clue. Either they want us to see these books, or they were lazy and didn’t feel like finding more book props. :)

    Personally, i think i’m overanalyzing.

    I tried reading the title of the dark book in the screenshot with the calender, and all I can get is, “American xxxx xxxx Manual”

    Can someone figure out the other two words?

    the book is upside down.

    http://bp1.blogger.com/_pG1kU-zfuxM/R8eBKQnj8jI/AAAAAAAAAHs/hv64yUTYnac/s1600-h/screen-capture-10.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    Hmmmmm…interesting because that photo of the calendar is different from the one I posted in comment #591:

    Which one is from the actual televised show?

    At any rate, the book’s title is “American Merchant Seaman’s Manual”[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    The pic of the calandar alone is from the show. I didn’t see the books in the show at all but will check again after works this evening.

    The calandar is placed next to the books for the other pic. The books are in the same order and in the same place. The papers under the calandar are the ones next to the books in the other pic.

  681. ANON2 says:

    The two pics w/ the ABC logo were aired. The calendar w/ books pic are from a (french-speaking?) spoiler blog site. The pic even has the site credit on it. That pic is a posed pic. Every shoot they allow some of the spoiler folks out there to come on set and snoop around, take photos of props (tinker around). This is one of those photos, and leads to effective promotion of the show. And it helps producers keep the spoilers folks on a short leash as to what they can spill. (my guess)
    ____________
    The maritime manual is more like a “boy scout” manual of standards and practices. I am sure that all american-flagged and registered ships and crews are familiar with it. Other countries vessels might have it too, particularly if their standards and practices vary from international maritime law. In the middle of the Pacific, I would expect to see a dozen maritime manuals like the one in the pic, from S & Central America, Asia, Australia, Indonesia, etc.
    ___________
    Do NOT go to the website referenced in the picture UNLESS you want to have the next episode totally and completely SPOILED. I am sorry I did.