The Other Woman

Juliet - Lost Episode - The Other Woman - Season 4

Juliet becomes the center of attention in tonight’s episode – and just in time, as her role has been minimal thus far through the first 5 episodes – we’ll see if things spice back up between her and Jack – and if we get any more information related to what she knows about the Island. The episode description would suggest that she is coerced into doing something unwillingly…

Spoiler Warning

ABC’s Official Show Description

“Juliet receives an unwelcome visit from someone from her past and is given orders to track down Charlotte and Faraday in order to stop them from completing their mission — by any means necessary. Meanwhile, Ben offers Locke an enticing deal.”

Based on the information that has been published – this episode should provide some extremely compelling back story about the Island and Juliet’s time spent there prior to the crash of Flight 815.

Episode Preview

Here are an abundance of sneak peeks for this week’s Lost episode, The Other Woman:
Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3 | Sneak Peek 4

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658 Responses to The Other Woman

  1. Rita says:

    WOW!! I just watched the previews and WOW!! (I couldn’t help myself) Hard to believe this just keeps getting better and better!! Maybe some answers tonight.

  2. rdizzle says:

    my lord… this show is insane! The preview looked crazy!! My Lost-Sushi night finally arrived :)

  3. UnLocke says:

    Fabulous idea, rdizzle. I can’t think of a better combination that sushi and Lost!

  4. Hammer says:

    The Detroit Chapter LAA meeting ends at 7:55 E.S.T.!!

  5. Rita says:

    [quote comment="192783"]The Detroit Chapter LAA meeting ends at 7:55 E.S.T.!![/quote]
    I think we’d better all be there!

  6. Hammer says:

    Previews are usually deceiving, but I have a theory about the other woman already…waiting…waiting…it’s only 3:00 E.S.T. Damn!

  7. Tina says:

    [quote comment="192785"]Previews are usually deceiving, but I have a theory about the other woman already…waiting…waiting…it’s only 3:00 E.S.T. Damn![/quote]
    Already a theory? Geez man, does it involve Juliet having an affair with Goodwin, because THAT’s my theory…?

  8. skweez says:

    Finally, more info about Juliet and this stinkin’ island. Can’t wait.

  9. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192790"][quote comment="192785"]Previews are usually deceiving, but I have a theory about the other woman already…waiting…waiting…it’s only 3:00 E.S.T. Damn![/quote]
    Already a theory? Geez man, does it involve Juliet having an affair with Goodwin, because THAT’s my theory…?[/quote]
    No, but your’s is probabally more accurate…I was thinking she’s dead and made herself appear…dun, dun, duuuuunnn.

  10. Tina says:

    Hammer: Oh, that kind of theory…well it could still be true!

    I think that Juliet was brought to the island for figure out the pregnancy problem and be Ben’s super secret evil genius wife, but she didn’t want to have any of it because she was falling for the devil may care & handsome Goodwin, who was supposed to be with someone else according to Ben’s super secret evil genius plan of attack. This is why Ben sent Goodwin to the tailies, to off him so he could steal Juliet’s grieving affections for himself.

  11. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192807"]Hammer: Oh, that kind of theory…well it could still be true!

    I think that Juliet was brought to the island for figure out the pregnancy problem and be Ben’s super secret evil genius wife, but she didn’t want to have any of it because she was falling for the devil may care & handsome Goodwin, who was supposed to be with someone else according to Ben’s super secret evil genius plan of attack. This is why Ben sent Goodwin to the tailies, to off him so he could steal Juliet’s grieving affections for himself.[/quote]
    Hmmmmm….

  12. Rita says:

    [quote comment="192807"]Hammer: Oh, that kind of theory…well it could still be true!

    I think that Juliet was brought to the island for figure out the pregnancy problem and be Ben’s super secret evil genius wife, but she didn’t want to have any of it because she was falling for the devil may care & handsome Goodwin, who was supposed to be with someone else according to Ben’s super secret evil genius plan of attack. This is why Ben sent Goodwin to the tailies, to off him so he could steal Juliet’s grieving affections for himself.[/quote]

    Well anything is possible at this point, but Goodwin aside, I DO think Ben has a thing for Juliette. Can’t wait till they tell us something!!4 1/2 more hours to go!

  13. Mel says:

    I want to know if any of them has an evil twin?

  14. NikkiV says:

    Since Juliet’s character was introduced, I liked her. Here she looks a little scary, which thus makes me return to my original question, to trust her or not…

  15. Rita says:

    [quote comment="192848"]Since Juliet’s character was introduced, I liked her. Here she looks a little scary, which thus makes me return to my original question, to trust her or not…[/quote]

    Yes I know what you mean. I really WANT to trust her, but that’s probably reason enough to NOT. Time will tell…..

  16. LLOL says:

    This is my first post. Not as smart or kind as most of you, but I LOVE your blog. Can’t stop thinking about the show, especially since I have about a dozen people at work who also talk about it non-stop.

    My first query: does everybody think Miles is still biting down on the grenade? There must have been a number of hours passing since Locke gave it to him.
    Second question: If it turns out that Desmond survives his time on the freighter, does anyone else predict that he will return to the island (like in next week’s episode), and in what “new” state–whole, impaired, ill, re-energized, etc.?
    Thanks for reading me.

  17. Missy says:

    [quote comment="192817"][quote comment="192807"]Hammer: Oh, that kind of theory…well it could still be true!

    I think that Juliet was brought to the island for figure out the pregnancy problem and be Ben’s super secret evil genius wife, but she didn’t want to have any of it because she was falling for the devil may care & handsome Goodwin, who was supposed to be with someone else according to Ben’s super secret evil genius plan of attack. This is why Ben sent Goodwin to the tailies, to off him so he could steal Juliet’s grieving affections for himself.[/quote]

    Well anything is possible at this point, but Goodwin aside, I DO think Ben has a thing for Juliette. Can’t wait till they tell us something!!4 1/2 more hours to go![/quote]

    I wonder if we’ll get an explanation of that painting in Ben’s house. Some people think it’s of Ben’s mom. I’ve always thought that it has to be Juliet because the woman is holding a mouse and when Alpert is interviewing Juliet they speak of some male field mouse she impregnated. So she must be a fertility genius!

  18. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192855"]This is my first post. Not as smart or kind as most of you, but I LOVE your blog. Can’t stop thinking about the show, especially since I have about a dozen people at work who also talk about it non-stop.

    My first query: does everybody think Miles is still biting down on the grenade? There must have been a number of hours passing since Locke gave it to him.
    Second question: If it turns out that Desmond survives his time on the freighter, does anyone else predict that he will return to the island (like in next week’s episode), and in what “new” state–whole, impaired, ill, re-energized, etc.?
    Thanks for reading me.[/quote]
    I’m am the self appointed and unofficial welcome committee, welcome…our
    Detroit Chapter LAA meeting ends in 25 minutes.

    Yes he’s likely still alive and biting the grenade.

    Des will likely go back to the island, I think that knowing there are several more seasons, this is not the rescue method that gets us to the O6.

  19. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="192848"]Since Juliet’s character was introduced, I liked her. Here she looks a little scary, which thus makes me return to my original question, to trust her or not…[/quote]

    In the picture at the top of the page, she looks a little emaciated, if you ask me… and she kind of looks like she is sucking her cheeks in, like she just tasted something sour? LOL

    24 minutes and 11 seconds until the enhanced version of The Constant. Has anyone heard if they will continue to show enhanced versions when they come back after Grey’s Anatomy? Maybe on Tuesday or Wednesday, to give us junkies a mini-fix to get us through until Thursdays at TEN pm?

    : ) P

  20. Hammer says:

    Yes!!! More whispers!!

  21. Hammer says:

    Okay, maybe still premature, but the preview wasn’t any different. The other woman appeared and disappeared during whispers. I get the feeling she’s dead and made herself visible…

  22. Hammer says:

    Again, maybe premature, but I’m giving myself kudos for saying that Widmore set up Des to end up on the island…assuming Ben isn’t pulling another fast one.

  23. Angel says:

    Okay so I live in L.A. And I haven’t seen this week’s episode yet. Can someone please tell me what happened because the suspense is KILLING ME!

  24. Hammer says:

    Damn it…who’s on the boat?

  25. mlc says:

    It’s gotta be michael

  26. Lostie says:

    I think that Goodwin’s wife disappeared during the whispers because the others control the black smoke and used it to divert Jack’s attention so she could get away.

    I am also convinced that Juliet must make it off the island- I don’t see how Jack could be so happy post island if she weren’t with him. She doesn’t have to be accounted for in the Oceanic 6 since she wasn’t onboard

    Also, I think it’s pretty clear Michael is on the boat as the spy for Ben.

  27. katesFriend says:

    what i don’t understand is if Charles Widmore is so concerned with getting to the island, wouldn’t he be ALL FOR penny talking to des? i mean, he of all people would both know stuff about the island and have a reason to kiss Widmore’s ass….seems like an important asset so why wouldn’t he freighter pick up penny’s call and try to reunite she and des?

    also, i don’t want to be this person, but i’m going to be, i didn’t like this episode. i kept waiting for something big to happen and then was let down…oh well, guess they can’t all be like the constant!

  28. LostNaked says:

    why do you all think Michael is Ben’s spy?

  29. DocH says:

    [quote comment="192895"]Okay, maybe still premature, but the preview wasn’t any different. The other woman appeared and disappeared during whispers. I get the feeling she’s dead and made herself visible…
    [/quote]
    her name is Harper. I did not hear the whispers when she arrived… but they were in full force when she slipped away.

  30. somewhere in time guy says:

    I think many feel it’s Micheal because there are few options for who could be “brought back” as the promo says. In addition, the actor that plays Micheal has been back in the credits this season. Anything is possible though.

  31. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="192914"]Also, I think it’s pretty clear Michael is on the boat as the spy for Ben.[/quote]

    But why would Locke have to “sit down” to hear it is Michael on the boat? Maybe it is Locke’s father? Or Boone!? Or Ana-Lucia – they mentioned her in the episode. Okay, I am grasping at straws, here, I know. But after all, the only thing that is definite about this show is that nothing is at it appears to be.

    Great episode. Love Elizabeth Mitchell. And Rebecca Mader is definitely growing on me.

    : ) P

  32. RAY says:

    I think it’s interesting that Harper says that Juliet looks just like “her” and implies that Juliet looks like Bens wife/girlfriend/something?.

    And in the episodes when Jack was being held captive to fix Ben’s back, Ben says that Juliet looks like Jack’s ex-wife.

    Coincidence? I think not. What do you think that means?

  33. DocH says:

    [quote comment="192920"]
    why do you all think Michael is Ben’s spy?[/quote]
    Ben gave Michael the bearing to leave on in the boat. Michael did Ben’s bidding when he told him to kill Ana-Lucia and Libby, Michael led 4 Losties “on the list” to the pier to be taken captive by Ben. Michael is Ben’s beyotch… tho it could still be the yet seen – Regina.

  34. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192918"]what i don’t understand is if Charles Widmore is so concerned with getting to the island, wouldn’t he be ALL FOR penny talking to des? i mean, he of all people would both know stuff about the island and have a reason to kiss Widmore’s ass….seems like an important asset so why wouldn’t he freighter pick up penny’s call and try to reunite she and des?
    quote]My guess would be that Whidmore doesn’t want the outside world to know where the island is. Penny is trying find Des to rescue him, daddy needs Des there for some reason we haven’t seen yet.

  35. Snaisy says:

    Crap!

    This episode was Wild. I get too excited. I keep going back and forth about the people on the boat. are they good? Are they bad? Now, we know Penny and her daddy are going after the same thing. but for different reasons. What’s daddy’s reason?

    I wondered why the others just disappeared. Where the hell are they? Since there is a time warp situation going on as evidenced by last week’s episode, do you think the others are back in regular time? Or is there another island in regular-non time warp time?

    Also, did anyone hear when Goodwin’s wife said “you look like her” who is “Her”? Could it be Ben’s mom? I forget what she looked like,lol. And I really want to go out and get the previous seasons so I can see when Goodwin died. I don’t recall him much, but I need to know more!!

    AHHH! LOST I love it!

  36. RGS says:

    RE: Michael, the last promo clip when it showed Sayid and Des meeting someone looked like a man with an afro. The man has to be Michael. Didn’t they say something about being reunited too?

  37. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192922"][quote comment="192895"]Okay, maybe still premature, but the preview wasn’t any different. The other woman appeared and disappeared during whispers. I get the feeling she’s dead and made herself visible…
    [/quote]
    her name is Harper. I did not hear the whispers when she arrived… but they were in full force when she slipped away.[/quote]
    Oh they were they when she arrived.

  38. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="192930"][quote comment="192920"]
    why do you all think Michael is Ben’s spy?[/quote]
    Ben gave Michael the bearing to leave on in the boat. Michael did Ben’s bidding when he told him to kill Ana-Lucia and Libby, Michael led 4 Losties “on the list” to the pier to be taken captive by Ben. Michael is Ben’s beyotch… tho it could still be the yet seen – Regina.[/quote]
    _______

    How about Paulo (?-the guy Nikki was with). He got bitten by the spider and burried, but wasn’t dead. And- we saw the dog digging around the grave. He could be the man on the boat- and there would be a reason why he was on the show in the first place.

  39. DocH says:

    It felt like “high school musical” with the Ben-Juliet-Goodwin-Harper love quadrangle.
    Or any episode of “Friends”. Ben came off as Ross, Juliet was Rachel, Harper was Monica, Goodwin was Chandler, Jack was Joey and Kate was Phoebe. I can hear it now “but we were on a break!”

  40. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192807"]Hammer: Oh, that kind of theory…well it could still be true!

    I think that Juliet was brought to the island for figure out the pregnancy problem and be Ben’s super secret evil genius wife, but she didn’t want to have any of it because she was falling for the devil may care & handsome Goodwin, who was supposed to be with someone else according to Ben’s super secret evil genius plan of attack. This is why Ben sent Goodwin to the tailies, to off him so he could steal Juliet’s grieving affections for himself.[/quote]
    Um….good guess :)

  41. Lost Addict* says:

    quote]
    _______

    How about Paulo (?-the guy Nikki was with). He got bitten by the spider and burried, but wasn’t dead. And- we saw the dog digging around the grave. He could be the man on the boat- and there would be a reason why he was on the show in the first place.[/quote]

    I could see that theory. That episode with them and the spiders was so random, it could come up again. Didn’t the others supposedly go to the “temple”…where are they???

  42. lust4lost says:

    i remember goodwin and ethan.. ethan was creepy … and i remember the scene when he was axed .. but who did it? was it sawyer? it wasn’t jack, was it?? oh gawd .. that would be a twist, wouldn’t it?

  43. lust4lost says:

    i remember goodwin and ethan.. ethan was creepy … and i remember the scene when he was axed .. but who did it? was it sawyer? it wasn’t jack, was it?? oh gawd .. that would be a twist, wouldn’t it?

  44. lust4lost says:

    i remember goodwin and ethan.. ethan was creepy … and i remember the scene when he was axed .. but who did it? was it sawyer? it wasn’t jack, was it?? oh gawd .. that would be a twist, wouldn’t it?

  45. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192925"]I think it’s interesting that Harper says that Juliet looks just like “her” and implies that Juliet looks like Bens wife/girlfriend/something?.

    And in the episodes when Jack was being held captive to fix Ben’s back, Ben says that Juliet looks like Jack’s ex-wife.

    Coincidence? I think not. What do you think that means?[/quote]
    My take is that Harper was talking about Ben’s mother when she told Juliet she looked like “her”, hence Ben’s crush on her.

    I’m glad they finally showed this “history” that Ben & Juliet have, which Tom referred to back in early season 3.

  46. DocH says:

    [quote comment="192938"]
    How about Paulo (?-the guy Nikki was with). He got bitten by the spider and burried, but wasn’t dead. And- we saw the dog digging around the grave. He could be the man on the boat- and there would be a reason why he was on the show in the first place.
    [/quote]
    [quote comment="192938"]
    How about Paulo (?-the guy Nikki was with). He got bitten by the spider and burried, but wasn’t dead. And- we saw the dog digging around the grave. He could be the man on the boat- and there would be a reason why he was on the show in the first place.
    [/quote]
    Nikki was the one that was still kickin’. Paolo was “dead” hours longer than she. She had the half waking moment as the Losties were pumping sand onto her mug. And if I were Vincent, I’d be sniffing me up some Nikki, not Paolo.

  47. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192944"]i remember goodwin and ethan.. ethan was creepy … and i remember the scene when he was axed .. but who did it? was it sawyer? it wasn’t jack, was it?? oh gawd .. that would be a twist, wouldn’t it?[/quote]
    As I remember it, it was Ana Lucia.

  48. PJSander says:

    Okay, so when they “replayed” Juliet’s flashback to the scene where Ben tells Goodwin to go to the beach and pretend to be a survivor, was it the SAME scene as when it first aired? Did they infuse Harper into the scene? Did they re-shoot it? It was very accurate to my recollection, but who out there has the DVD’s and can watch the first time we saw that flashback?

    : ) P

  49. achtungpv says:

    Is the person on the boat being Michael a bit obvious?

    My wife thinks BEN is on the boat. He’s working the time travel thingie so he’s in both places at once. Now that would be mind-blowing and something Lost would pull.

  50. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”192948
    My take is that Harper was talking about Ben’s mother when she told Juliet she looked like “her”, hence Ben’s crush on her.

    I’m glad they finally showed this “history” that Ben & Juliet have, which Tom referred to back in early season 3.
    [/quote]
    Could be that the “she” Juliet looked like was Ben’s sweetie when he was a kid. The one that he shared the VooDoo dolls with.
    Tom also referred to Kate as “not his type”. Meaning? Someone that Ben liked so much that Tom would be sent to his death, like Goodwin.

  51. skweez says:

    I think that Ben’s man on the boat is Kelvin from the Swan. Also, i’ve said before that the whole “Dez is a coward” plays a really big role. Just haven’t figured it all out yet. But I certainly didn’t like this episode very much. Maybe i’m getting spoiled!

  52. Laura* says:

    In terms of who Juliet looks like… Remember (I believe it was Ben) who said that Juliet was picked to talk to Jack because she looked like Jack’s wife Sarah!

  53. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192957"]Is the person on the boat being Michael a bit obvious?

    My wife thinks BEN is on the boat. He’s working the time travel thingie so he’s in both places at once. Now that would be mind-blowing and something Lost would pull.[/quote]
    Could also explain the “bad brother”/”evil twin” references.

  54. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192959"]
    Could be that the “she” Juliet looked like was Ben’s sweetie when he was a kid. The one that he shared the VooDoo dolls with.
    [/quote]
    That girl, Annie, had reddish-brown hair. I think Juliet looks a lot like Ben’s mother.

  55. DocH says:

    [quote comment="192944"]
    i remember goodwin and ethan.. ethan was creepy … and i remember the scene when he was axed .. but who did it? was it sawyer? it wasn’t jack, was it?? oh gawd .. that would be a twist, wouldn’t it?
    [/quote]
    [quote comment="192951"]
    As I remember it, it was Ana Lucia.
    [/quote]
    Ana Lucia whacked Goodwin. They went up the hillside to recon the area. Ana challenged him, he revealed, they rolled down the slope, he dove at her and she raised her walking stick just in time – she Shish-kabobed him.
    Ethan got the Charlie treatment… Ethan came after Claire. Jack attacked Ethan and lost his gun in a fist fight. Jack put a severe beating on Ethan. After Jack stepped away Sawyer stepped in to interrogate Ethan for answers. Charlie then stepped in, picked up Jacks gun, shot at Ethan 6 times, hitting him in the chest 5 times.

  56. lust4lost says:

    but ben would only have pictures to remember his mother by … she died at childbirth … and they had cameras on the island?? this is a stretch

  57. Hammer says:

    I’ll admit the obsession with the whispers:

    It struck me odd that Harper said that Ben sent her, when in the hell did Ben get a chance to talk to her? Oh wait, I know, when he spoke to smokey/whisperers. How would Harper know that Ben is right where he wants to be since she hasn’t had a chance to see him? Oh wait, I know, when Ben spoke to smokey/whisperers.

    Futherererer, smokey/whisperers appear to people as someone that would effect them emotionally…anyone?

  58. lust4lost says:

    and Ben’s dad HATED Ben and greived the loss of his wife. I doubt he would have allowed pictures of her in the house…too painful

  59. RAY says:

    [quote comment="192973"]but ben would only have pictures to remember his mother by … she died at childbirth … and they had cameras on the island?? this is a stretch[/quote]

    Maybe he went back in time to see her….?

  60. Toeknee says:

    So what’s everyone’s vote:

    -Harper herself really appeared to Juliet

    -Harper was a manifestation of Smokey.

    I think it was a manifestation of smokey, between the whispers and the sudden disappearance. Not to mention the fact that Ben has been locked up so how exactly would he talk to Harper or any of the Others?

  61. lust4lost says:

    smokey/whispers is jacob

  62. DocH says:

    [quote comment="192969"]
    That girl, Annie, had reddish-brown hair. I think Juliet looks a lot like Ben’s mother.[/quote]
    And Juliet has jet-black eyebrows. Women are tricking. And you don’t nned the identical same hair color to remind another person (facially/emotionally) of another. I take license.

  63. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192978"][quote comment="192973"]but ben would only have pictures to remember his mother by … she died at childbirth … and they had cameras on the island?? this is a stretch[/quote]

    Maybe he went back in time to see her….?[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ben DID have a picture of her – we saw it in his FB episode. And he saw her (i.e., smokey) in that same episode. He knows what she looked like. Presumably “the therapist” would know that also, and would know Ben’s issues with missing his mother.

  64. Suey says:

    I thought that Ben saw her mother in the woods in a previous season when he was younger and ran away from the dharma intiative camp?

  65. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192979"]So what’s everyone’s vote:

    -Harper herself really appeared to Juliet

    -Harper was a manifestation of Smokey.

    I think it was a manifestation of smokey, between the whispers and the sudden disappearance. Not to mention the fact that Ben has been locked up so how exactly would he talk to Harper or any of the Others?[/quote]
    Guess your picking up what I’m laying down eh?

  66. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192982"][quote comment="192969"]
    That girl, Annie, had reddish-brown hair. I think Juliet looks a lot like Ben’s mother.[/quote]
    And Juliet has jet-black eyebrows. Women are tricking. And you don’t nned the identical same hair color to remind another person (facially/emotionally) of another. I take license.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Well as Laura* pointed out a few comments back, D&C have already used the “Juliet looks like Sarah” card, so to me it’s obvious they’re now using the “Juliet looks like Ben’s mom” card.

  67. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192988"]
    Guess your picking up what I’m laying down eh?[/quote]
    LOL I was typing mine as you were typing yours apparently. Great minds and all that…..

  68. Peanuts says:

    Harper was not really Harper. Ben/Jacob can manifest himself into other ppl. Think of all the dead ppl that have appeared to the ppl on and off the island. Ben is the one on the freighter, he is just appearing as someone else to everyone.

  69. DocH says:

    Some belly slapping humor tonight too.

    Locke brings Ben a meal:

    Ben: “Rabbit, John?”

    Locke: “We’re running low on chickens”,

    Ben: (under his breath) “I hope this one didn’t have a number on it.”

  70. skweez says:

    [quote comment="192979"]So what’s everyone’s vote:

    -Harper herself really appeared to Juliet

    -Harper was a manifestation of Smokey.

    I think it was a manifestation of smokey, between the whispers and the sudden disappearance. Not to mention the fact that Ben has been locked up so how exactly would he talk to Harper or any of the Others?[/quote]

    The whispers gave it away. Harper wasn’t “really” there. I guess smokey really can manifest itself in human form.

  71. peanut says:

    how did Locke, Swayer and the rest get to the houses??? weren’t they on a smaller island off the main Island.

  72. katesFriend says:

    maybe i misheard, someone w/ tivo check maybe for me, but i thought harper said ben is “whoever he wants to be” not “wherever he wants to be”

    would make sense, juliet said ben is a prisoner, harper says he is whoever he wants to be, and adds a little mystery. anyone know?

  73. lust4lost says:

    and it tastes like chicken

  74. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192957"]
    My wife thinks BEN is on the boat. He’s working the time travel thingie so he’s in both places at once. Now that would be mind-blowing and something Lost would pull.[/quote]
    I don’t know about that…supposedly the time travelling thing is a person’s consciousness travelling to that person’s own body at a different time. People’s bodies aren’t travelling. Otherwise there are two Ben’s, which would be a paradox, which D&C have said they are averse to.

    Further, I’d be very very VERY disappointed if the rest of the show turns into a series of voluntary time travelling by certain characters so they can obtain whatever they need whenever they need it.

  75. skweez says:

    [quote comment="192979"]So what’s everyone’s vote:

    -Harper herself really appeared to Juliet

    -Harper was a manifestation of Smokey.

    I think it was a manifestation of smokey, between the whispers and the sudden disappearance. Not to mention the fact that Ben has been locked up so how exactly would he talk to Harper or any of the Others?[/quote]

    The whispers gave it away. Harper wasn’t “really” there. I guess smokey really can manifest itself in human form.

  76. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192895"]Okay, maybe still premature, but the preview wasn’t any different. The other woman appeared and disappeared during whispers. I get the feeling she’s dead and made herself visible…[/quote]
    Hammer I missed this comment of yours too – sorry.

    I agree that it wasn’t really Harper, that it as smokey, which presumably means she’s dead as you said. But, wouldn’t Juliet know that she was dead? Unless she just died in the last few days. (I’m assuming that if Harper died before Alex left the Others, Alex would know, and it would be big enough news that Alex would tell Juliet, say during their trek to the radio tower back in the season 3 finale, which took place just a few days prior to this episode’s events).

  77. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="192998"]maybe i misheard, someone w/ tivo check maybe for me, but i thought harper said ben is “whoever he wants to be” not “wherever he wants to be”

    would make sense, juliet said ben is a prisoner, harper says he is whoever he wants to be, and adds a little mystery. anyone know?[/quote]
    Neither:
    Juliet “How can Ben possibley know where they are when he’s a prisoner?”
    Harper “Ben is exactly where he wants to be.”

  78. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="192998"]maybe i misheard, someone w/ tivo check maybe for me, but i thought harper said ben is “whoever he wants to be” not “wherever he wants to be”

    would make sense, juliet said ben is a prisoner, harper says he is whoever he wants to be, and adds a little mystery. anyone know?[/quote]
    I’m pretty sure she said “where he wants to be”…this ties into Locke’s conversation with Ben, when Ben says “I always have a plan”. You can see how easily he manipulated Locke into freeing him. “See you guys at dinner” I was cracking up at that.

    BTW, katesfriend, I can understand your earlier comment about not liking this episode. I did like it, but felt it was a little lacking in spots (like the whole idea of this Harper character seemed kind of forced to me), so it definitely didn’t seem as good as last week’s episode. But I’d still put it above Eggtown.

  79. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193010"][quote comment="192895"]Okay, maybe still premature, but the preview wasn’t any different. The other woman appeared and disappeared during whispers. I get the feeling she’s dead and made herself visible…[/quote]
    Hammer I missed this comment of yours too – sorry.

    I agree that it wasn’t really Harper, that it as smokey, which presumably means she’s dead as you said. But, wouldn’t Juliet know that she was dead? Unless she just died in the last few days. (I’m assuming that if Harper died before Alex left the Others, Alex would know, and it would be big enough news that Alex would tell Juliet, say during their trek to the radio tower back in the season 3 finale, which took place just a few days prior to this episode’s events).[/quote]
    That’s why I say premature, maybe she’s not dead, but Juliet seemed just as bewildered when she disappeared as Jack was.

  80. jonathan says:

    [quote comment="193010"][quote comment="192895"]Okay, maybe still premature, but the preview wasn’t any different. The other woman appeared and disappeared during whispers. I get the feeling she’s dead and made herself visible…[/quote]
    Hammer I missed this comment of yours too – sorry.

    I agree that it wasn’t really Harper, that it as smokey, which presumably means she’s dead as you said. But, wouldn’t Juliet know that she was dead? Unless she just died in the last few days. (I’m assuming that if Harper died before Alex left the Others, Alex would know, and it would be big enough news that Alex would tell Juliet, say during their trek to the radio tower back in the season 3 finale, which took place just a few days prior to this episode’s events).[/quote]
    hi all. new to this post.
    Maybe Juliet knows that smokey can make dead people appear. So she would not be that surprised by seeing Harper…I think Juliet is a lot more aware of the island’s secret than what we already know of.

  81. intolost says:

    Cool!!!! It keeps getting better and better. Here’s my two cents:

    1. I think maybe it’s Dr. Candle on the boat. Michael is just way too obvious! There’s got to be a huge twist coming there. We never did see him in the Dharma scenes in person. Wasn’t he always on video? Someone we never thought we’d see again? Dr. Candle, Dr. Candle, Dr. Candle!!! Wouldn’t that be a cool twist?

    2. It’s Sayid! Ben tells Locke to sit down. It’s obviously someone Locke is close too. I’m thinking he wouldn’t necessarily need to sit down to hear it is Michael, but he sure would need to sit down if it’s Sayid! Ben is a total genius and has had everything planned all along, has his claws in all of them. Or maybe not genius, just been able to time travel? He’s managed to get his claws into Sayid. Based on the flashforwards, he for sure got his claws in Sayid and looks like Jack and Kate, too.

    3. Ben has his claws into Jack based on something with Juliet (she’s not dead in the future), and his claws in Kate based on Aaron. Again I wonder. Is Ben’s ultimate plot for the greater good of everyone and the island or not? Dang, his plot to get was Juliet totally selfish. Last episode, I wondered if he really was good. Love Ben, hate Ben, love Ben, hate Ben!!!! Aaargggg!!

    3. Yes! I was right! Widmore is totally evil, knows everything!!

    4. Abaddon is working for Widmore. Yep, Ben vs. Widmore coming up! Abaddon sent the tots to get Ben and gas everyone! Widmore wants Ben alive, but why? What’s the Ben/Widmore connection? But why these tots? Love ‘em but they are totally not the people to send on this mission. Gotta have some close to connection to Widmore, the island, Dharma?

    5. Juliet is okay! She has been a victim of it all just as much as the losties have.

  82. katesFriend says:

    thanks hammer and toeknee, i just misheard

    i guess i just felt like this was a filler episode, and i wasn’t expecting it since i thought this season was supposed to move a lot quicker

    i kept feeling like i was missing something big :)

  83. Elana.O says:

    I have reviewed the episode and I believe Harper said that “Ben is whoever he wants to be”. This opens up a lot of new thoughts for me…I do not believe however that Ben is time traveling because Daniel made it seem as if a persons conscious mind was traveling and not their bodies…! This is random but does anyone believe that Walt appearing to Locke was also Smokey?

  84. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193018"]Maybe Juliet knows that smokey can make dead people appear. So she would not be that surprised by seeing Harper…I think Juliet is a lot more aware of the island’s secret than what we already know of.[/quote]
    Hello, I am the self appointed unofficial welcoming committee, welcome. I agree with you, and would like to believe that because the look on Juliette’s face when Harper appeared could have just been because she was expecting Jack to be there, but I choose to believe it was because she knew Harper shouldn’t have been there. Also, I notice that the lines Harper used were lines we heard from Ben before.

  85. intolost says:

    I bet Ben totally paid off Michael to shut up and just get lost!!!!

  86. Laura* says:

    I’m not sure I buy the idea that Ben thinks of Juliet as his mother. Ben is obviously coming on to Juliet in a romantic way, and I don’t believe this is the way he would act if he thought of her in the same light as he thought of his mother.

    Ben lost his mother when he was very young, so I believe if he met someone that he correlated to his mother he would act like a child, wanted to be held or patted on the head or told he was a good boy. I don’t think he would immediately begin to feel romantic feelings towards her.

    Because of this, I feel like the “her” that Juliet reminds Ben of, HAS to be someone who he has been romantically involved with (whether physically or emotionally… someone he wanted that type of relationship with). I think Annie is a great idea.

    I also think tonight demonstrated a huge turning point for Juliet… I think this is the first time that she has truly doubted Ben’s nature. Sure he’s done bad things, but Charlotte’s words seemed to resonate with her (‘do you honestly think he wouldn’t try and use the gas… he’s used it before’).

    It will be interesting to see where she takes this, will she turn against Ben (like she kind of did by kissing Jack)? Also, we know that Jack “ends up” liking Kate (during the trial) so I gets he ‘bounces’ right back too :)

  87. jonathan says:

    I’m watching the show in Canada, a canadian channel (CTV) is airing the show. After the episode, they showed a sneek peak, and the off-voice/announcer of the station said ‘be prepared in next week’s lost to see someone you havn’t seen in a while’.
    I think the Michael is on the boat theory, as much as I hate it, is right.
    Would have loved to see someone else there. Can I still have hope that it is not Michael?

  88. Elana.O says:

    2. It’s Sayid! Ben tells Locke to sit down. It’s obviously someone Locke is close too. I’m thinking he wouldn’t necessarily need to sit down to hear it is Michael, but he sure would need to sit down if it’s Sayid! Ben is a total genius and has had everything planned all along, has his claws in all of them. Or maybe not genius, just been able to time travel? He’s managed to get his claws into Sayid. Based on the flashforwards, he for sure got his claws in Sayid and looks like Jack and Kate, too.

    I don’t think that it’s Micheal either but it would be a nice twist is Sayid was somehow contacted by Ben and is now reporting to him somehow from the boat…I do however think that Ben has something on him..in the flash forwards its not exactly like Sayid and Ben are skipping and holding hands..he is doing Ben’s dirty work for a reason..we just need to find out what this is?

  89. Toeknee says:

    In this week’s podcast, D&C said that in the first 5 minutes of tonight’s episode, we’ll find out if Juliet is one of the Oceanic 6. Did anyone else hear them say that?

    Well, what did I miss in this episode? There was no answer one way or the other. Unless they mean that by not telling us she is one of the O6, they are telling us she isn’t?

  90. Laura* says:

    I agree that Michael would be “obvious” but we’ve had a bunch of those before (we’re just too good at guessing!) Examples:

    1. Claire and Jack related
    2. Locke’s dad is the real Sawyer

  91. shells says:

    forgive me if I have missed something, but what is “the List”? When Ben and Juliet were having a lovely ham dinner, Ben said something about the 815 children being on the ‘List ‘
    and “who are we to question?” What was that all about?

  92. jonathan says:

    [quote comment="193024"][quote comment="193018"]Maybe Juliet knows that smokey can make dead people appear. So she would not be that surprised by seeing Harper…I think Juliet is a lot more aware of the island’s secret than what we already know of.[/quote]
    Hello, I am the self appointed unofficial welcoming committee, welcome. I agree with you, and would like to believe that because the look on Juliette’s face when Harper appeared could have just been because she was expecting Jack to be there, but I choose to believe it was because she knew Harper shouldn’t have been there. Also, I notice that the lines Harper used were lines we heard from Ben before.[/quote]
    Thanks. I do take your point on this one.

  93. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193031"]In this week’s podcast, D&C said that in the first 5 minutes of tonight’s episode, we’ll find out if Juliet is one of the Oceanic 6. Did anyone else hear them say that?

    Well, what did I miss in this episode? There was no answer one way or the other. Unless they mean that by not telling us she is one of the O6, they are telling us she isn’t?[/quote]
    I’m guessing the latter, because the previews say that next week we learn who the last O6er is…which I think confirms that Aaron is one (Sweet vindication if true, dont’ have to be on the manifest…just on the plane.).

  94. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193027"]I’m not sure I buy the idea that Ben thinks of Juliet as his mother. [/quote]
    I don’t think he thinks of her as his mother. I thought the therapist said to Juliet “you remind him of her” or something along those lines. I wasn’t thinking too much in terms of the psychology of it all, just the physical resemblance. However, i don’t see Ben as being the most socially well-adjusted person in the world, given his relationship with his fater, and lack of a mother, so who’s to say what he’s looking for in a relationship. He did refer to Juliet as being his, as if he owned her.

  95. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193037"]
    I’m guessing the latter, because the previews say that next week we learn who the last O6er is…which I think confirms that Aaron is one (Sweet vindication if true, dont’ have to be on the manifest…just on the plane.).[/quote]
    Unless they tell us who #5 AND #6 are next week? (just playing devil’s advocate – I think you’re right about Aaron)

  96. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193033"]forgive me if I have missed something, but what is “the List”? When Ben and Juliet were having a lovely ham dinner, Ben said something about the 815 children being on the ‘List ‘
    and “who are we to question?” What was that all about?[/quote]
    It gets confusing as there are several lists. My guess is the list that the other’s referred to when they were complaining that Jack was being held in the Hydra because he wasn’t on Jacob’s list. It is assumed that the people on Jacob’s list are “special”. Go to lostpedia.com and search for list to get more…

  97. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193041"][quote comment="193037"]
    I’m guessing the latter, because the previews say that next week we learn who the last O6er is…which I think confirms that Aaron is one (Sweet vindication if true, dont’ have to be on the manifest…just on the plane.).[/quote]
    Unless they tell us who #5 AND #6 are next week? (just playing devil’s advocate – I think you’re right about Aaron)[/quote]
    Good point!

  98. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193041"][quote comment="193037"]
    I’m guessing the latter, because the previews say that next week we learn who the last O6er is…which I think confirms that Aaron is one (Sweet vindication if true, dont’ have to be on the manifest…just on the plane.).[/quote]
    Unless they tell us who #5 AND #6 are next week? (just playing devil’s advocate – I think you’re right about Aaron)[/quote]
    Although I am running with the fact that the preview claimed that we would learn who #5 was before the Eggtown episode and the only person new the real world was Aaron…

  99. intolost says:

    I think no. I think Ben gets Jack to lie about the losties and cover it up because that’s gonna be part of Ben’s big plan and agreement to save Juliet (Ben’s gonna threaten to kill her), keep Kate out of jail, and cover up whatever is gonna happen to Claire. Juliet can’t be 06 cuz she wasn’t on the manifest. Juliet’s going to have to agree to hide out if she’s saved so she won’t be interrogated about the island.

  100. monika says:

    what has that Harper been in before?

  101. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193047"]
    Although I am running with the fact that the preview claimed that we would learn who #5 was before the Eggtown episode and the only person new the real world was Aaron…[/quote]
    I forgot about that, although I never know how much to trust what is said in the previews.

  102. Hammer says:

    Now that we are being lead to believe that Widmore is trying to get to the island and we know that he bought the journal in 1996 to find the island, and (I believe) that he set up Des to get to the island: Can we assume that Libby was a Widmore plant to get Des a boat?

  103. Shooter says:

    [quote comment="193049"]what has that Harper been in before?[/quote]

    She’s been in lots of things. She played jake’s wife on ENG and she played Dennis Leary’s wife on Rescue me. She’s been a guest star on CSI too among others.

  104. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193018"]
    hi all. new to this post. Maybe Juliet knows that smokey can make dead people appear. So she would not be that surprised by seeing Harper…I think Juliet is a lot more aware of the island’s secret than what we already know of.
    [/quote]
    I don’t think Juliet knows too much more than the Losties about “the island mysteries”. Ben told Locke, and I believe him when he said, he did not know what the Smoke Monster was. The Others had their sonic barrier to keep Smokey out of the barracks, Juliet knew the code to get thru the barrier, but was genuinely imperiled when Smokey cornered her and Kate – no clue… I think that is all she knows… same follows with the whispers she just heard – no clue, Ben neither.

  105. katesFriend says:

    elana.o: i think she said “whoever” too, but i have no way to check

    monika, go to imdb.com and check Andrea Roth,it will tell you everything she has been in

  106. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193053"][quote comment="193047"]
    Although I am running with the fact that the preview claimed that we would learn who #5 was before the Eggtown episode and the only person new the real world was Aaron…[/quote]
    I forgot about that, although I never know how much to trust what is said in the previews.[/quote]
    I’ve had trust issues too, but since that said “you will discover the last of the oceanic 6″ and ” the last two” (which would have been a correction if they didn’t show us #5) I’m sticking with Aaron.

  107. intolost says:

    I think it’s Sun and Jin. Aaron was in gestation. Not on the manifest.

  108. Andrew says:

    I like how they through some of the old stuff in like the wispers, the kids from the tail section which it seamed like they just forgot about, and the comment about “did the rabbit have a number on it”

    Kinda wanted to see what was going on with miles though

  109. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193057"][ but was genuinely imperiled when Smokey cornered her and Kate – no clue… I think that is all she knows… same follows with the whispers she just heard – no clue, Ben neither.[/quote]
    Really? You think Ben talks to Jacob but doesn’t have a clue about smokey or the whispers…even though he heard them and talked to his dead mom?

  110. DocH says:

    Fresh thought – show title – The Other Woman.

    We all think that Juliet fooling around with married Goodwin is – the other woman -. But ToeKnee made me think (there is a first) that “the other woman” is the female that Ben is reminded of by Juliet.

  111. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193021"]thanks hammer and toeknee, i just misheard

    i guess i just felt like this was a filler episode, and i wasn’t expecting it since i thought this season was supposed to move a lot quicker

    i kept feeling like i was missing something big :)[/quote]
    I didn’t think the whole thing was a filler – we got some good information. They confirmed that Widmore is the one who hired the freighter. We found out a little more about the “work” the freighter people have to do on the island. We got a little more background about Juliet & Ben’s relationship, and we see how that probably affects Juliet’s allegiance to the Losties.

    Certainly nothing as big and shocking as some of the things we found out in the last few episodes, but enough to keep the story moving, IMHO.

  112. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193066"]
    Really? You think Ben talks to Jacob but doesn’t have a clue about smokey or the whispers…even though he heard them and talked to his dead mom?
    [/quote]
    When did we conclude that Ben talks to Jacob? Wasn’t the last (only) encounter with Jacob when Ben asked Locke “what did he say?”. And what says Jacob, whispers, and smokey aren’t all three mutually exclusive?

  113. monika says:

    Thanks Shooter, that’s been driving me crazy!

  114. KyBook says:

    D&C mentioned in their last podcast that Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6. And that Aaron is Claire’s Aaron.
    Least favorite episode of the season so far, but necessary for some of the reveals.

  115. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193070"][quote comment="193066"]
    Really? You think Ben talks to Jacob but doesn’t have a clue about smokey or the whispers…even though he heard them and talked to his dead mom?
    [/quote]
    When did we conclude that Ben talks to Jacob? Wasn’t the last (only) encounter with Jacob when Ben asked Locke “what did he say?”. And what says Jacob, whispers, and smokey aren’t all three mutually exclusive?[/quote]
    Well I guess we haven’t 100%, but you would have to dismiss the encounter at the cabin as a hoax., Ben was arguing with Jacob in the cabin, we saw Jacob in the chair, and all hell broke loose when he argued with Jacob. How would Ben know about Jacob if he wasn’t having contact with him?

    I don’t disagree that the three CAN be mutally exclusive, but from what I’ve seen of the transcripts…they are related.

  116. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193068"]
    … They confirmed that Widmore is the one who hired the freighter. We found out a little more about the “work” the freighter people have to do on the island.
    [/quote]
    About that. We now have a better read on Widmore. But, bottomline, is Penny anti-dad as we suspect, or a pro-dad operative? What was the candid camera deal in the warehouse with Widmore? The guy getting whooped kind of looked like 1996 Desmond, from the back. Why when Widmore looked-up at the candid camera person, did he seem to recognize them AND why did the camera go immediately to dead air?

  117. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193081"]D&C mentioned in their last podcast that Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6. And that Aaron is Claire’s Aaron.
    Least favorite episode of the season so far, but necessary for some of the reveals.[/quote]
    Which podcast and where can I hear it?

  118. skweez says:

    [quote comment="193081"]D&C mentioned in their last podcast that Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6. And that Aaron is Claire’s Aaron.
    Least favorite episode of the season so far, but necessary for some of the reveals.[/quote]

    I didn’t here that. Which podcast?

  119. jonathan says:

    here’s a theory: next week we’ll see michael. Not as the man on the boat, but in a flashback as the father of jin’s baby.
    The man on the boat has to be more twisted than this. Locke needs to sit to hear it, and when he does, he immediately frees Ben. So it’s someone Locke knows. And probably someone Locke trusts to be able to counter whatever mission the freighters are at. Because Locke has to feel relieved or reassured by this news to free Ben. So, Sayid? I’m not sure. Ben mentioned that he had a man on the boat before Sayid went over there (also, the man on the boat has to be the one who opens the door to Sayid, Des and Minkowski, so its not one of these three).
    Anyways, might be Michael after all, but i don’t understand how he would have gotten into Widmore’s crew…

  120. MIKEY says:

    did anyone else find it funny when locke opened the safe and found a tape labled Red Sox? following a dramatic pause, ben says “i taped over it”. i’m just thinking of all the discussions of how it was mentioned earlier that Boston had won the World Series. were they messing with our heads?

  121. jonathan says:

    jin’s baby..meant sun :)

  122. Hammer says:

    I’m listening to the 2-28 audio podcast. To me they are strongly hinting that there are still two open spots for the O6. They left the door open for Aaron, but I think that after next week I will have to concede that Aaron is not considered an O6.

  123. Ben says:

    Guy on Boat: I think the announcer for next week: “face you’d never thought you’d see again” rules out a lot of people: Nikki, Patchy, Sayid, etc. Michael I think is it. The trouble with this is how do the writers deal with Walt and provide the motivation for Michael? Perhaps Walt’s dead and that’s why Ben told Locke to sit down.

    Harper: I believe she was super imposed into the shot when Ben instructs Goodwin to go find the tailies.

    So where are the rest of the others and the kids from 815? Weren’t they going to the Temple? Or was it the Tempest?

    If Ben gassed all the Dharma people, how did they find out that he did the gassing once before and who delivered the Dharma food to the island?

  124. lost chicka says:

    hey, a couple thoughts:

    why wouldn’t locke just let claire see miles after he took the bomb outa his mouth. i mean, ya just might wanna take that out first, but then let her talk to him. if you wanna find out what’s going on i’d think you’d let her give it a shot. and i thought it was hilarious when she said something about them being hostiles. lol…….they really are turning into the new “others”!!!!

    BEN
    ben always gets his way. and he’s the funniest thing! he goes from screaming at juliet to, “take your time” as calm as day. and ben somehow is always exactly where he wants to be & can somehow always get people to do exactly what he wants. i feel as tho they should all be bowing at his feet going “all mighty and powerful super maniupulator, i do your will and full fill your every wish. mackalackhigh….” oh, wait, they already do that basically….

    JULIET
    omg, never thought about it, but juliet does look an awful lot like ben’s mom. oh and loved the opener. i thought she was off the island & one of the O6 somehow or is famous cuz she’s an other on the island…..why didn’t juliet shoot charlotte. i really wanted juliet to shoot her after how much of a b!tch charlotte was being (yes, i can’t believe i just said that). not even a cool accent can make up for being awful to kate!!!! and i like it when juliet tells jack about harper being her phsyciatrist “it’s stressfull being an other.” lol….

    Lust for Lost (74): yes, everything tastes like chicken! rabbits, rabbits with numbers, etc… (but it wasn’t the rabbit they used to scare the crap outta sawyer was it? that one was white and this one was grey right? i’d hate to think fluffy got eaten….)

    Elana O (89): what? they weren’t singing merrily while skipping hand in hand?????? how could i have missed that???? ;) no, ben does have something on sayid. while sayid is a man and on the boat, he is not ben’s man on the boat.

    i love the whispers!!!!!!!

  125. RGS says:

    I definitely do not think Aaron is an O6, and I’m basing it off the podcast that Hammer is referencing.

    I don’t think there can be any doubt that Ben is bad news. The only question remains is whether he is the lesser of two evils?

    I’m not sure Widmore is evil, I need a refresher as to what evil actions he has done. Not saying he is good either.

    Sayid is NOT the man on the boat. Don’t you think they would have recognized him when he got off the helicopter? Moreover there would have been no need for Sayid to act the way he has on the boat, and going to the boat. If Sayid is the man on the boat, my friends, the show will have officially Jumped the Shark.

    I don’t believe that Harper is dead, it just doesn’t make sense, unless they are going to introduce a flashback or something that demonstrates how she died. Whenever the “manifestation” occur, I don’t think other folks have seen it (I could be wrong) just the person most emotionally attached to it. However, I don’t think smokey has to manifest as a dead person either. (Assuming he manifested as Walt).

    Also we know Smokey can kill w/o assistance, why does Smokey want the option of gassing the island left on? (Wants them to stop Dan & Char from turning it off).

    Are there whispers everytime there is a manifestation?

    Though I am ambivalent as to whether that the Harper person was Smokey, something doesn’t make sense to me. I’ll have to rewatch the show and get back. Strongest point that it could have been is the disappearance at the drop of a dime.

    I don’t think the show was filler, it just couldn’t live up to The Constant. We learned that Juliette, more likely than not, is genuine in her dislike of Ben. She still could be for self, as far as her true concerns in getting off the island.

    We know that Ben, more likely than not, is real bad news and is a lil immature be-yotch.

    We learned that Charlotte and Daniel, more likely than not, are not cold blooded killers. (They could have killed Kate, Juliette where was Charlotte’s gun during that fight?) As scientists they may have a little more pure reason as to why they want to be there (speculation).

    Intolost Post 82 I am not following the Abbadon sent the freightors in to gas everyone to take Ben alive. They shut the gas off.
    I am also very curious to find out what Widmore knows about the island.

    I’m glad we haven’t heard the Harper is Juliette’s Constant commentary :p.

  126. goochie says:

    Hi,

    I have just found an anagram for Harper Stanhope:

    Perhaps another

    I really liked that episode, have fun with the new fact :D

  127. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="192930"][quote comment="192920"]
    why do you all think Michael is Ben’s spy?[/quote]
    Ben gave Michael the bearing to leave on in the boat. Michael did Ben’s bidding when he told him to kill Ana-Lucia and Libby, Michael led 4 Losties “on the list” to the pier to be taken captive by Ben. Michael is Ben’s beyotch… tho it could still be the yet seen – Regina.[/quote]
    +++++++++

    Re watched the episode and I don’t think Michael was told to kill Ana Lucia and Libby. He was told to help Ben escape and Ana Lucia was guarding him so she had to go. Libby just walked in at the wrong time so he killed her too.

  128. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193124"]Hi,

    I have just found an anagram for Harper Stanhope:

    Perhaps another

    I really liked that episode, have fun with the new fact :D[/quote]

    Or Perhaps an Other
    (The author of this post does not subscribe to the theory that anagrams in names or objects are hidden clues to the intention of the writers).

  129. Laura* says:

    [quote comment="193121"]

    I’m not sure Widmore is evil, I need a refresher as to what evil actions he has done. Not saying he is good either.

    [/quote]

    I’m not sure that the actions that we have seen of Charlie Widmore are necessarily “evil” but he isn’t exactly a nice guy. When we were first introduced to Mr. Widmore (“Flashes before your eyes”) he drank a shot of whiskey (i believe) and told Desmond the drink was worth more than Desmond would ever be.

    When we saw Mr. Widmore last episode he was surprisingly “nice” to Desmond, at least in comparison to how he had acted when we originally met him. The ‘only’ difference between occasions (that we are aware of) is that Desmond is no longer after Penny (Penny no longer loves Desmond)

  130. yogamom says:

    Hammer, I can’t wait for you to get us the breakdown of those whispers. You’ve gotten me hooked!

  131. JamieGirl says:

    who is juliet’s father?

  132. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193250"]Hammer, I can’t wait for you to get us the breakdown of those whispers. You’ve gotten me hooked![/quote]
    I am relying on lostpedia.com for them. If you want to read all of them go there and do a search for whisper transcripts, maybe you’ll get more out them.

  133. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193252"]who is juliet’s father?[/quote]
    Charles Widmore, again…lostpedia.com will give you all that we know so far.

  134. Tim says:

    “…Re watched the episode and I don’t think Michael was told to kill Ana Lucia and Libby. He was told to help Ben escape and Ana Lucia was guarding him so she had to go. Libby just walked in at the wrong time so he killed her too…”

    Did someone tell Michael to help Ben? I thought he killed Ana Lucia just to make the others look bad so the losties would attack them and rescue Walt.

  135. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    Could anybody understand what the whispers were saying? This time above all others it was almost hearable. I had a wife walking in and out, washing dishes, using the garbage disposable……all very annoying. Can’t she do those after the show???!!! ; )

  136. JamieGirl says:

    Holy Sht!

  137. intolost says:

    Intolost Post 82 I am not following the Abbadon sent the freightors in to gas everyone to take Ben alive. They shut the gas off.
    I am also very curious to find out what Widmore knows about the island.

    Ah, just a guess. ; ) Wait. Weren’t they trying to turn on the gas? Farraday was having a real hard time about it during his conversation in the jungle with CS Lewis. She was trying to convince him. I don’t know.

    I still think Sayid is Ben’s man on the boat. He’s the techie. Ben knew Sayid would be on there and will manage to contact him.

  138. Bruno says:

    Random thoughts:

    It was only Harper’s image we saw, and it was somehow sent to Juliet and Ben was clearly behind this somehow. It does not matter if Harper is alibve or not at this point. The image of Harper was in fact a warning to Juliet “remember what happenned to your lover the last time you cheated/you disobeyed me” and this is a direct threat to Jack. Juliet got the message and was fully prepared to shoot Dan and the anthropologist.

    Harper was not “real” and could not have done the job. This was clearly addressed in the episode: “you hve to pull the trigger” she said.

    How did Ben achieved this, being locked away in a cellar? I believe it is not Ben projecting himself, or time travelling. I think however that he has powerful “friends” on the island that he can contact and they do his bidding (-if it is in their interest too, but not always-). THis relationship is not as easy of simple. I think that maybe his relationship with Jacob/Smokey/The Island is that he is the best thing they have FOR NOW. If someone better comes along (Locke?) they would gladly dump him in favor of a better leader/defender of the island. Locke did not see this, did not even realize he was being considered and failed his “job interview”, so back to Ben being the guy in charge.

  139. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193260"]“…Re watched the episode and I don’t think Michael was told to kill Ana Lucia and Libby. He was told to help Ben escape and Ana Lucia was guarding him so she had to go. Libby just walked in at the wrong time so he killed her too…”

    Did someone tell Michael to help Ben? I thought he killed Ana Lucia just to make the others look bad so the losties would attack them and rescue Walt.[/quote]
    As I recall, there was a deal struck with Bea Klugh. If Micheal helped Ben escape and brought back the list of folks(Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley) then Ben would give Walt back to Michael and give them a boat…

  140. Bobbi says:

    I’m wondering about this great debate of whether Harper was in real-life, or manifestation. Jack saw her right? So could she still be a manifestation if both Jack and Juliette saw her? Is this the first time more than one person saw a whisper-related image? I think it is.

  141. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193256"][quote comment="193252"]who is juliet’s father?[/quote]
    Charles Widmore, again…lostpedia.com will give you all that we know so far.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think you mean to say Widmore is Penny’s father. We don’t know who Juliet’s father is (yet).

  142. Tina says:

    Wow, I’ve finally been right about something!

    Thoughts on the Harper’s Manifestation: I’m buying into her connection with smokey/whispers. I’m still uncertain that the two have to come together, but…

    There were definitely whispers when she appeared and left and the way she spoke was if she were repeating something, not as though she were speaking from her own mind. Perhaps Ben is projecting his consciousness into the manifestions of those who have died on the island and are “stuck” there. I mean, if the consciousness can time travel AND older consciousnesses can get switched into newere bodies, why can’t they manifest themselves in completely separate forms, assuming there’s some kindof connection between the consciousness and the form in which it manifests…?

    Elana.O: I like the idea of Sayid being Ben’s man on the boat. It may tie into the whole consciousness travelling and how Sayid ends up as Ben’s gun for hire. It would also be rather shocking for Ben to explain all of this to Locke…Can’t we just imagine that going down, “So John, Sayid is my man on the boat, only he doesn’t know it yet because I’m going to time travel my consciousness…blah blah blah…”

    Daniel & Charlotte may know alot more than we intitially suspected, but I still don’t think they know the whole story, but I’m beginning to suspect Juliet is playing a wicked dangerous game on the island. I imagine Ben shared a bit too much information with her in his attempts to woo her and now, he’s going to pay for it. I also think there’s a possibility the reason Jack & Kate had the exchange they did over the baby in Kate’s flashforward had as much to do with Claire as Juliet…

  143. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193261"]Could anybody understand what the whispers were saying? This time above all others it was almost hearable. I had a wife walking in and out, washing dishes, using the garbage disposable……all very annoying. Can’t she do those after the show???!!! ; )[/quote]
    In general, I don’t think it’s possible to determine what the whispers are saying as you watch the show. People who have determined what is being said have some audio software where they can play the whispers backwards, and separate the sound into different channels (left, center and right).

  144. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193283"]I’m wondering about this great debate of whether Harper was in real-life, or manifestation. Jack saw her right? So could she still be a manifestation if both Jack and Juliette saw her? Is this the first time more than one person saw a whisper-related image? I think it is.[/quote]
    Sawyer and Kate both saw the black horse on the island – presumably that was a manifestation of smokey, but we don’t know that for sure.

    And if you consider that Walt’s appearances on the island were actually smokey, then Sayid and Shannon both saw him.

    If you include what happened in the mobisodes from this past January, Vincent saw Jack’s dad on the island, as Jack has.

  145. Bobbi says:

    ToeKnee….THANKS! That is exactly what I was wondering, if anyone shared the same ‘manifestation’ simultaneously before. It’s hard to keep track of everything!

  146. wish i were lost says:

    Sayid can NOT be the man on the boat. the Man on the boat unlocked the door when Sayid, Minkowski, and Des were locked in there. Not possible.

    Don’t believe a word Ben says. Ben is telling Locke what he needs to hear, just another manipulation. Locke loves the island and will protect it at any cost, Ben knows this and tells him Widmore will destroy the island. So now Locke will try to defeat Widmore. Not sure what Widmore really wants with the island, but i doubt everything Ben has told us.

    As far as Smokey and the whispers…i am lost, but i think Ben has some control over them.

    I think the tempest station is the one that controls Smokey(smokey has looked like a tempest at times). Maybe Patchy is controlling smokey from the station…

  147. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193244"][quote comment="193121"]

    I’m not sure Widmore is evil, I need a refresher as to what evil actions he has done. Not saying he is good either.

    [/quote]

    I’m not sure that the actions that we have seen of Charlie Widmore are necessarily “evil” but he isn’t exactly a nice guy. When we were first introduced to Mr. Widmore (“Flashes before your eyes”) he drank a shot of whiskey (i believe) and told Desmond the drink was worth more than Desmond would ever be.

    When we saw Mr. Widmore last episode he was surprisingly “nice” to Desmond, at least in comparison to how he had acted when we originally met him. The ‘only’ difference between occasions (that we are aware of) is that Desmond is no longer after Penny (Penny no longer loves Desmond)[/quote]

    I still haven’t rewatched it, but in the vhs tape Ben was playing, did it show Widmore and his henchman, killing the bound and gagged dude? That would lend itself to evil intentions, other than that because he is an A-hole to the beloved Desmond, he is evil?

    Admit it you have a crush on Desmond.

  148. lostrocks says:

    “he’s exactly where he wants to be” sounds like what Miles said when he was traded for Charlotte… thoughts?

  149. Eric says:

    I’m interested too in the comment Ben made about his “people storming the camp” if they still wanted him.

    It seems Alpert and the original islanders went to the temple knowing another “cycle” was coming, and Ben thinks they’ve abandoned him. I hope we see Alpert and hear more about the temple and get solid Alpert flashbacks. This is a key piece of the story still without solid connection to all other events.

  150. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193286"][quote comment="193256"][quote comment="193252"]who is juliet’s father?[/quote]
    Charles Widmore, again…lostpedia.com will give you all that we know so far.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think you mean to say Widmore is Penny’s father. We don’t know who Juliet’s father is (yet).[/quote]
    Oops.

  151. JamieGirl says:

    Please clarify – huge difference if Widemore is Juliet’s father AND Penny’s father or just Penny’s father?

  152. Lisa says:

    [quote comment="193252"]who is juliet’s father?[/quote]

    Juliet and Penny look alike (in terms of finding actresses to play sisters) so I agree with Hammer.

    Ben has someone on the boat…we don’t know who the captain is either. So there are two people we haven’t physically seen yet…unless the captain is Ben’s plant.

  153. nakira says:

    More questions, argh.
    What’s the connection for the Widmore/abbadon thing? It might be 3 parties vying for the island. I haven’t been able to come up with a clear link betweeen Widmore and Abbadon. I mean Naomi had Des’ photo which could be the link (Widmore gave Abbadon the photo and Naomi used it to identify Des on the island). But how does Widmore know that Des is on the island.

    Love how they made Ben look like a lovestruck puppy in this episode. He almost resembled a human. I guess growing up with Dharma people and an alcoholic dad and seeing your dead mother can really take a toll on your communication skills with the opposite sex!

    I missed some of the episode since it comes on at 8 and i put my son to bed. Did they show how Harper died? Also did Ben say something to Locke like he could make “things” happen or something. I am guessing Sun is one of the O6 but maybe Jin gives up his spot for someone else?

  154. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193307"]Please clarify – huge difference if Widemore is Juliet’s father AND Penny’s father or just Penny’s father?[/quote]
    We do not know who Juliet’s father is.

  155. sector7 says:

    Listen closely: “Ben is exactly when he wants to be.”

    This means Ben’s conscience can time travel like Desmond’s. Ben’s constant? Juliet?

    This how Ben was able to give the meesage to Harper while “imprisoned”.

  156. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193307"]Please clarify – huge difference if Widemore is Juliet’s father AND Penny’s father or just Penny’s father?[/quote]
    Widmore is def. Penny’s father. I’m not sure why anyone would want to know about Juliette’s father, did I miss something in the plot?

  157. deangoodes says:

    Once again I loved last night’s episode. I do have a couple of questions. Had we seen Harper before, and if she’s dead how and when did she die?
    And do we know that Widmore sent Desmond to the island? Did he map out Des’ round the world boat trip? Or is it just a big coincidence that Des came upon the island, the same one the love of his life’s father is trying to find?
    Also, I wanted to say my thoughts about Daniel and Charlotte seemed to be proved accurate, at least for now, as they do not want to harm the Losties at all. They just want to find Ben, for whatever purpose we will have to wait and see.

  158. lola says:

    [quote comment="192957"]Is the person on the boat being Michael a bit obvious?

    My wife thinks BEN is on the boat. He’s working the time travel thingie so he’s in both places at once. Now that would be mind-blowing and something Lost would pull.[/quote]
    the people on the boat are looking for ben-it couldn’t be him

  159. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193311"]Listen closely: “Ben is exactly when he wants to be.”

    This means Ben’s conscience can time travel like Desmond’s. Ben’s constant? Juliet?

    This how Ben was able to give the meesage to Harper while “imprisoned”.[/quote]
    From the lostpedia transcripts:

    “How can Ben possibly know where they are when he’s a prisoner?”

    “Ben is exactly where he wants to be.”

  160. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    I believed Ben (silly, I know) when he said that he has no idea how Widmore knows about the island. I think I know, Widmore bought the manifest of the Black Rock and it’s in there. Can anybody be completely sure that Ben was at the auction? I never saw him.

  161. sector7 says:

    I suppose it is impossible for lostpedia to be wrong.

  162. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193321"]I suppose it is impossible for lostpedia to be wrong.[/quote]
    Relax, no one said it is official. I am telling you for your information…theorize all you want.

  163. sector7 says:

    Hammer – thanks. I think if Ben can time jump like Des, it would explain why he is always a step ahead of everyone. Harper would know Ben can do this becuase she is his therapist.

  164. Angel says:

    Okay so I think that its not Sayid. He can’t be Ben’s man because he had been talking about him when Sayid was still at the beach. Remember that someone called Ben to tell him that they were there and gave him info on daniel and the rest. And it can’t be Sayid because who opened the door? Another thing I’m wonderig is when is Locke going to learn that he can’t trust Ben? I am 100% sure that Ben is going to turn around and stab Locke in the back (or shoot). Does anyone back me up on that?

  165. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193311"]Listen closely: “Ben is exactly when he wants to be.”

    This means Ben’s conscience can time travel like Desmond’s. Ben’s constant? Juliet?

    This how Ben was able to give the meesage to Harper while “imprisoned”.[/quote]

    I believe when you re-watch the episode with Closed caption, you will read, “where he wants to be.”

  166. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193323"]Hammer – thanks. I think if Ben can time jump like Des, it would explain why he is always a step ahead of everyone. Harper would know Ben can do this becuase she is his therapist.[/quote]
    You have a valid point IMO, I’m just hung up on the whispers theory…I’m waiting to find out about how Ben was able to get Harper to show up at a random spot in the jungle and disappear just a quickly…I just don’t buy that the whispers are a coincidence.

  167. JamieGirl says:

    Hammer – Yes, I asked (Post #132) who Juliet’s father was because in last night’s episode, in a flashback of Juliet arriving on the island, Tom told her (and don’t quote me) “She will make you want your daddy back”, referring to Harper’s demeanor. If someone has the exact quote that would be great. That line made me recall that Ben killed his father (Gassed him in the VW) and then Ben instructed Locke to kill his father (which Sawyer did his dirty work, end result = Locke’s father dead). So for a second, I wondered if Juliet’s father was dead, and that perhaps she killed him, so I asked if anyone knew who her father was.
    You replied in #134 that it was Charles Widemore, which freaked me out, but I was excited and okay with that idea… but then ToeKnee said he thinks you meant to say Charles Widemore in reference to him being Penny’s father, not Juliet’s and now there is some back & forth dialogue and confusion. Can someone please clarify if JULIET’s FATHER has ever been mentioned on the show? Or Mother for that matter.
    On a separate note, the kids, Zach & Emma who were asking about their mother in LA… who’s their mother? Could it be Jack’s ex-wife Sarah? And was it ever clear whether she was hooking up with his father, Christian Shephard?
    Thanks – My co-worker and I love this blog !

  168. Toeknee says:

    FWIW, Lostpedia and Closed Captioning can both be wrong. Lostpedia’s info is provided by regular people like you and me (same as Wikipedia). And I don’t know how many times I’ve watched a show with Closed Captioning and gotten a laugh out of the mistakes they make.

    Regardless, as I and others have said before, I’m quite sure she says “where he wants to be”.

  169. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193320"]I believed Ben (silly, I know) when he said that he has no idea how Widmore knows about the island. I think I know, Widmore bought the manifest of the Black Rock and it’s in there. Can anybody be completely sure that Ben was at the auction? I never saw him.[/quote]

    I haven’t seen any confirmation that Ben was at the auction, I don’t think he was, but I’m also not sure if it is relevant. Widmore won the auction and hence could’ve read the journal like you suggested, and learned or likely confirmed where it is. I don’t think he was just bidding on it by chance.

    (**Disclaimer** I am still somewhat attached to the little website, with the Hanso page, as it listed 2 Widmores, 1 was the First Mate and journal owner? as being on the ship, along with Hanso.)

  170. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193329"]Hammer – Yes, I asked (Post #132) [/quote]
    I’m sorry I have confused you. I screwed up and assumed you meant Penny. As far as I can tell, the ONLY mention of Juliette’s father is this quote that you mentioned: “That Harper’s a piece of work. (Chuckles) But you give her a week, she’ll have you cryin’ about your daddy. I’m speaking from personal experience here.”

  171. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193331"] Widmore won the auction and hence could’ve read the journal like you suggested, and learned or likely confirmed where it is. I don’t think he was just bidding on it by chance.[/quote]
    I agree RGS, I think Widmore already knew about the island, the book seems to be something he wanted for more info.

  172. CHARLIE says:

    CHARLIE IS THE SPY ON THE BOAT…MARK MY WORDS…HE’S DOING IT BECAUSE HE MADE A DEAL WITH BE THAT AARON AND HIS GIRL WOULD GET OUT SAFELY…

  173. CHARLIE says:

    CHARLIE IS THE SPY ON THE BOAT…MARK MY WORDS…HE’S DOING IT BECAUSE HE MADE A DEAL WITH BEN THAT AARON AND HIS GIRL WOULD GET OUT SAFELY…

  174. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="193027"]I’m not sure I buy the idea that Ben thinks of Juliet as his mother. Ben is obviously coming on to Juliet in a romantic way, and I don’t believe this is the way he would act if he thought of her in the same light as he thought of his mother.

    Ben lost his mother when he was very young, so I believe if he met someone that he correlated to his mother he would act like a child, wanted to be held or patted on the head or told he was a good boy. I don’t think he would immediately begin to feel romantic feelings towards her.

    Because of this, I feel like the “her” that Juliet reminds Ben of, HAS to be someone who he has been romantically involved with (whether physically or emotionally… someone he wanted that type of relationship with). I think Annie is a great idea.

    I also think tonight demonstrated a huge turning point for Juliet… I think this is the first time that she has truly doubted Ben’s nature. Sure he’s done bad things, but Charlotte’s words seemed to resonate with her (‘do you honestly think he wouldn’t try and use the gas… he’s used it before’).

    It will be interesting to see where she takes this, will she turn against Ben (like she kind of did by kissing Jack)? Also, we know that Jack “ends up” liking Kate (during the trial) so I gets he ‘bounces’ right back too :)[/quote]

    have you heard of the oedipus complex? it’s subconcious to “fall in love with your mother.” besides, i don’t know if we can say he was coming onto juliet romantically. maybe he just wanted to be close to her (i’m thinking about the dinner for two). but i always suspected ben liked her so maybe i’m contradicting myself. but i think it would be easy for someone to fall in love with someone who reminds them of a parent. people do it all the time…

  175. sector7 says:

    As the story is unfolding, doesn’t it make sense that we would learn more poeple have this ability to time travel with their mind? Like Desmond and Mrs. Hawking? They can’t be the only ones, right?

  176. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193314"]Once again I loved last night’s episode. I do have a couple of questions. Had we seen Harper before, and if she’s dead how and when did she die?
    And do we know that Widmore sent Desmond to the island? Did he map out Des’ round the world boat trip? Or is it just a big coincidence that Des came upon the island, the same one the love of his life’s father is trying to find?
    Also, I wanted to say my thoughts about Daniel and Charlotte seemed to be proved accurate, at least for now, as they do not want to harm the Losties at all. They just want to find Ben, for whatever purpose we will have to wait and see.[/quote]

    She seemed so familiar but the IMDB only has her listed in one episode last night (Andrea Roth). We don’t know anything about her being dead, or potentially dead for certain.

    Some people believe Widmore set Des up, it could also be somewhat of a coincidence that Des ended up on the island. I’m going with some kind of modified version of the former.

  177. LLOL says:

    I keep wondering who filmed Widmore and gave the tape to Ben. Ben says to Locke “I taped over the game (the Red Sox game).” Does that suggest that Ben videotaped Widmore? If he didn’t, who did? That was very confusing…

  178. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="193048"]I think no. I think Ben gets Jack to lie about the losties and cover it up because that’s gonna be part of Ben’s big plan and agreement to save Juliet (Ben’s gonna threaten to kill her), keep Kate out of jail, and cover up whatever is gonna happen to Claire. Juliet can’t be 06 cuz she wasn’t on the manifest. Juliet’s going to have to agree to hide out if she’s saved so she won’t be interrogated about the island.[/quote]

    after seeing eggtown, i thought that there were more survivors, but that they were in hiding or something. i think 6 people were chosen to be the Oceanic 6 just to cover up some other ulterior motive (like getting rid of the Dharma leaders??). jack’s story on the stand really made me think that there were more survivors.

  179. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193342"][quote comment="193048"]I think no. I think Ben gets Jack to lie about the losties and cover it up because that’s gonna be part of Ben’s big plan and agreement to save Juliet (Ben’s gonna threaten to kill her), keep Kate out of jail, and cover up whatever is gonna happen to Claire. Juliet can’t be 06 cuz she wasn’t on the manifest. Juliet’s going to have to agree to hide out if she’s saved so she won’t be interrogated about the island.[/quote]

    after seeing eggtown, i thought that there were more survivors, but that they were in hiding or something. i think 6 people were chosen to be the Oceanic 6 just to cover up some other ulterior motive (like getting rid of the Dharma leaders??). jack’s story on the stand really made me think that there were more survivors.[/quote]
    According to the podcast, you can assume that the other two are just a lie and that there will be no story to account for who they are.

  180. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193309"]More questions, argh.
    What’s the connection for the Widmore/abbadon thing? It might be 3 parties vying for the island. I haven’t been able to come up with a clear link betweeen Widmore and Abbadon. I mean Naomi had Des’ photo which could be the link (Widmore gave Abbadon the photo and Naomi used it to identify Des on the island). But how does Widmore know that Des is on the island.

    Love how they made Ben look like a lovestruck puppy in this episode. He almost resembled a human. I guess growing up with Dharma people and an alcoholic dad and seeing your dead mother can really take a toll on your communication skills with the opposite sex!

    I missed some of the episode since it comes on at 8 and i put my son to bed. Did they show how Harper died? Also did Ben say something to Locke like he could make “things” happen or something. I am guessing Sun is one of the O6 but maybe Jin gives up his spot for someone else?[/quote]

    Abbadon arranged the “motley crew” and gave the orders to Naomi. Ben “confirmed” that Widmore is the boat owner. That’s why it appears that Abbadon is just a sidekick, or a yes man (surprise surprise).

    Widmore could know Des is on the island based on 1) the race, 2) if he intercepted transmissions of Des pushing the button. What is unclear to me is how an extra copy of the photo could have been generated, when it appeared they only bought one, and then Des broke up with her (so I doubt she would go back and ask for the negative).

    I don’t recall Ben saying he could make things happen (Insert Bryant Gumbel voice, “Did you make it rain?”).

  181. Scott says:

    I thought it was funny that the writers threw Juliet the line: “It’s hard being an other” …

  182. Scott says:

    [quote comment="193344"]

    Abbadon arranged the “motley crew” and gave the orders to Naomi. Ben “confirmed” that Widmore is the boat owner. That’s why it appears that Abbadon is just a sidekick, or a yes man (surprise surprise).

    Widmore could know Des is on the island based on 1) the race, 2) if he intercepted transmissions of Des pushing the button. What is unclear to me is how an extra copy of the photo could have been generated, when it appeared they only bought one, and then Des broke up with her (so I doubt she would go back and ask for the negative).

    I don’t recall Ben saying he could make things happen (Insert Bryant Gumbel voice, “Did you make it rain?”).[/quote]

    Recalling Widmore/Desmond in the bathroom in “The Constant”: Seems to me Widmore knew Desmond was time travelling. He gave him Penny’s information because he needed Desmond to be calling Penny in the future. He left the water running (with the drain stopped) as he walked out on purpose, but I don’t know the reason.

  183. sector7 says:

    For all we know, Widmore could be from the island just like Richard.

  184. Toeknee says:

    Here’s a screencap of Daniel’s map:

    I wonder who drew this? Ben’s man on the boat? Or maybe Widmore got it from the Black Rock’s journal?

  185. Bobbi says:

    Now see, I thought Des/Widmore in bathroom was BEFORE the other flashbacks we’ve seen. For some reason, I felt like the bathroom at auction scene takes place before he and Penny temporarily reconcile and get photo taken. Afterall she goes to see him at stadium bleachers where he’s training and about to take off on boat race.

  186. Black Rock N' Roller says:

    1st post here:

    What’s the deal with all the Red Sox mentions?

    Jack & Pilot… I get that one, now Ben’s tape.

    I’m stretching but the organization is know for a few things:

    the last to embrace black players, the curse, overcoming huge odds to win.

    And does it seem a little dramatic that the tape is the only thing in the safe? Why would it need to be protected so well from the “others”?

  187. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193357"]1st post here:

    What’s the deal with all the Red Sox mentions?

    Jack & Pilot… I get that one, now Ben’s tape.

    I’m stretching but the organization is know for a few things:

    the last to embrace black players, the curse, overcoming huge odds to win.

    And does it seem a little dramatic that the tape is the only thing in the safe? Why would it need to be protected so well from the “others”?[/quote]
    My honest thoughts on the Red Sox tape was just to remind of where we are in ‘time’. We are in 2004. But aside from that, the ‘Red Sox’ tape was viewed by Jack while captive. So we know that Ben (or whoever shot the Widmore footage) did so AFTER Jack watched Red Sox win. Right? And as far as it being in the safe, according to Liar Ben, it was his final bargaining chip. What I did think was interesting at this point in the episode however, was how he mentions that if his people were still following him…they’d have stormed the camp already. Isn’t Harper still under his command? Perhaps this whole thing is still a ruse? I mean, afterall, just days ago (Lost time) he ordered his men to the beach and to kill the three Losties who were there to sabotage them. (sawyer, rose’s hubby, etc.) My thoughts are that Ben still is in control of his followers, and somehow communicating with them. I’ll buy into the time travel theory!

  188. Tina says:

    [quote comment="193351"]Here’s a screencap of Daniel’s map:

    I wonder who drew this? Ben’s man on the boat? Or maybe Widmore got it from the Black Rock’s journal?[/quote]
    That’s a good question. It looks rather primitive doesn’t it?

  189. Bobbi says:

    Well, there is a Dharma station on that map, so it couldn’t be from Black Rock era, right? Also, why are no other stations on the map? And, why so many ‘unknown’ written on it?

    I’m not entirely ready to trust Daniel and Charlotte. Why bother going there to shut off gas? They went all the way to island to find Ben, not to shut off gas. The whole thing seems off still.

  190. John says:

    It doesn’t make sense that Widmore owns the boat, at least in the way Ben is characterizing it. I think Widmore would consider exploiting the island as beneath him. Also, Ben already admitted that the team was looking for him, so why would Widmore send in a team looking for only Ben if Widmore wanted to exploit the island, as Ben said?

  191. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193370"]It doesn’t make sense that Widmore owns the boat, at least in the way Ben is characterizing it. I think Widmore would consider exploiting the island as beneath him. Also, Ben already admitted that the team was looking for him, so why would Widmore send in a team looking for only Ben if Widmore wanted to exploit the island, as Ben said?[/quote]
    I have to disagree slightly here. Widmore is obviously interested in the Black Rock, as shown at auction, therefore interested in island. Also, obviously there is some connection between him and Ben. Ben wouldn’t have a tape of him for no reason, perhaps Ben has wronged him. Either way, I think Widmore could definitely be trying to exploit the island. Perhaps not merely for monetary reasons though, I think its something much bigger. We know the island ‘seems’ to have special powers. I’d like to know how the journal from the Black Rock was not on the ship, but actually at an auction though.

  192. Wiserwiz says:

    I believe Juliette does not make it off the island. Every other “lostie” this season has flashforwards. She only had flashbacks – hence I don’t think she makes it off. Also, I think Ben will kill her before the Oceanic 6 get off the isalnd but this is a guess.

    [quote comment="193031"]In this week’s podcast, D&C said that in the first 5 minutes of tonight’s episode, we’ll find out if Juliet is one of the Oceanic 6. Did anyone else hear them say that?

    Well, what did I miss in this episode? There was no answer one way or the other. Unless they mean that by not telling us she is one of the O6, they are telling us she isn’t?[/quote]

  193. dawn says:

    I’m a little confused, is there anyone left from the others on the isand and where has Harper been all this time if half the camp is living in the others houses, were has harper and the rest of them been
    Ben said somthing about his people would bust him out can anyonne helpme with answers

  194. deangoodes says:

    I don’t think Juliet makes it off the island either. I don’t know if she ends up dying, or being forced to stay on the island or what it might be, but I don’t see Jack being without her in the future world and in all the flash forwards of him their has been no mention of her and no signs of her being there. That could be why Jack wants to go back to the island, to help her or to be with her.

  195. lostrocks says:

    Just some thoughts…

    Bruno 139- when Harper says “you have to pull the trigger” could we interpret that as ‘that is something Juliette HAS to do, or it will be course-corrected anyways?’ Will she eventually have to kill Faraday and Charlotte?

    I think Faraday was trying to emit the gas. Check out the screenshots of the computer, and what the output is. I’m no computer wizard, but it seems as though he is enabling the system to work until Juliette shows up. Suddenly he rips off his suit and is in recovery mode to stop the gas.

    I still don’t understand how Ben knew Goodwin was going to die with certainty! He MUST be able to time travel.

    One last thing… Juliette- seriously. Kissing Jack, telling him to are into him. Cmon, I don’t buy it. She’s an emotional wreck!

  196. Tina says:

    [quote comment="193370"]It doesn’t make sense that Widmore owns the boat, at least in the way Ben is characterizing it. I think Widmore would consider exploiting the island as beneath him. Also, Ben already admitted that the team was looking for him, so why would Widmore send in a team looking for only Ben if Widmore wanted to exploit the island, as Ben said?[/quote]
    I think its likely that Ben is the “key” to something on the island or about the island that Widmore wants. And I think you’re wrong to think that Widmore wouldn’t “exploit” the island. He’s a multimillion dollar corporate leader, he certainly is up for exploitation.

  197. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="193374"]I’m a little confused, is there anyone left from the others on the isand and where has Harper been all this time if half the camp is living in the others houses, were has harper and the rest of them been
    Ben said somthing about his people would bust him out can anyonne helpme with answers[/quote]

    they went to the temple, right? the Others are still there just out of sight for the time being.

  198. deangoodes says:

    Dawn, the others have headed for the Temple (wherever that is). Presumably, that is where Harper has been as well, although we’ve never seen or heard of her before (at least I haven’t). As far as the others coming to rescue Ben, he may just be messing with Ben’s mind or they may not know he needs rescuing, or they don’t care about him enough to help him, or he may have told them to stay at the temple no matter what; there could be any amount of reasons why they haven’t shown the others on recent episodes.

  199. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193368"]Well, there is a Dharma station on that map, so it couldn’t be from Black Rock era, right? Also, why are no other stations on the map? And, why so many ‘unknown’ written on it?

    I’m not entirely ready to trust Daniel and Charlotte. Why bother going there to shut off gas? They went all the way to island to find Ben, not to shut off gas. The whole thing seems off still.[/quote]
    If you were planning a new attack on the others, and you knew that there was a device that could release a gas that would kill everyone, wouldn’t you want to render it inert before you sent your troops in? Just a guess.

  200. Bobola says:

    I thought this was a great episode!
    Can’t believe so many didn’t like it. Infidels!

    Wow, more about Julliet and we see; she really does seem to be a good person.
    But again; she holds back info from Jack while they are on the way to stop the feared gassing;
    and also; I may have been fooled; I thought that Charlotte was a baddie and now may actually be a hero!
    BUT; why the hell didn’t Charlotte and Daniel just come clean with the Losties and say; “we gotta neutralize the Gas”! Maybe they fear a mole among the Losties?
    And how much MORE does Juleitte know that she has not told Jack?

    Goodwin’s wife sure is a harpy; she looks part Klingon.
    Like too much plastic surgery or pineapple astringent.

    How could Ben know Goodwin would get killed?

    Meanest comment;
    when Julliet is next to Goodwin’s body…
    Ben says; Take as long as you need to… and walks off (something like that).
    Nit pick; Wouldn’t that body be pretty stinky and despite her grieving; wouldn’t Julliet also be holding her nose some?
    Goodwin looked more like he’s been embalmed.

    Most ominous comment;
    Ben says something like; if the surviving Others wanted to…they could come and take over the compound again. And Ben’s weird eyes,,,,spooky!

    Funniest moment; the look on Sawyer’s face when he and Hugo see Ben out and about like he’s on Holiday carrying his linen into the house. HA!

    I WISH; People knew the difference between a boat and a SHIP—the Freighter is a SHIP, and Des should know that being in the Military…but maybe the Scots get that backwards the way Brits seem to delight in mispronouncing foreign words (especially Spanish);

    SHIP: A ship is a large watercraft capable of deep water navigation.
    any water vehicle of considerable size navigating deep water, especially one powered by an engine.

    BOAT: A small vessel used to travel on the water, powered either by wind, power or oars. Also any small vessel carried on a larger ship.

    Shocker:
    The SPY on the Boat is….Vincent!
    Remember, you heard it from me first.

    Cheers.

  201. Uzuri says:

    i don’t remember who commented on the scene when the plane crashes in the flashback but i think they just re-shot it. i don’t remember juliet being surprised when goodwin was chosen but then again that was season 2, right? i might’ve just forgotten or didn’t notice.

  202. Bobbi says:

    Hammer-True,BUT if they were planning attack, wouldn’t they just set off the gas, since they had masks? It just seems too corny for me, they have the means (the gas) to use as an ‘attack’, why not just do it. I mean, we already know that saving 815 survivors was not their reason for going to island. Naomi and Abaddon specifically acknowledged to each other that there would not be any survivors. As if to say that they wouldnt be acknowledging survivors if found nor saving them.

  203. Meg says:

    [quote comment="193395"]
    Goodwin’s wife sure is a harpy; she looks part Klingon.
    Like too much plastic surgery or pineapple astringent.
    [/quote]
    I was thinking that too. Whenever she was in a scene, I had trouble concentrating on the dialogue. I just stared at her face and wondered how many times she’d been under the knife.

  204. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="193394"][quote comment="193368"]Well, there is a Dharma station on that map, so it couldn’t be from Black Rock era, right? Also, why are no other stations on the map? And, why so many ‘unknown’ written on it?

    I’m not entirely ready to trust Daniel and Charlotte. Why bother going there to shut off gas? They went all the way to island to find Ben, not to shut off gas. The whole thing seems off still.[/quote]
    If you were planning a new attack on the others, and you knew that there was a device that could release a gas that would kill everyone, wouldn’t you want to render it inert before you sent your troops in? Just a guess.[/quote]

    ______

    good point. i don’t know if i trust the freighter folks. if it was simply that they didn’t want ben to gas them (again?), why all the secrecy? there probably is an ulterior motive at work, like with all the other sketchy people.

  205. sector7 says:

    When Harper says she’s afraid Ben will hurt Goodwin, she knows about Ben’s ability. When Ben sends Goodwin to the tail, he knows he’s sending Goodwin off to die. Harper knows it to.

    On the “date”, Ben says Goodwin’s mission will be over soon. This is because Ben knows Goodwin is going to die before it happens.

  206. Bobbi says:

    So, if Sayid has to fix the communications room in order to let Des talk to Penny. Then how were Daniel and Charlotte talking to woman an hour before. George said the communications room has been sabotaged days before. However, Daniel and Charlotte called the ship to find out if helicopter landed. So, either they were NOT really talking to boat. (hence using the emergency number, they weren’t supposed to) Or, there is a timing issue again. Or perhaps they are all talking via sat. phones now? But that would have meant that Daniel and Charlotte KNEW the communications room had been sabotaged, yet still went to island.

  207. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193329"]
    On a separate note, the kids, Zach & Emma who were asking about their mother in LA… who’s their mother? Could it be Jack’s ex-wife Sarah? And was it ever clear whether she was hooking up with his father, Christian Shephard?
    [/quote]
    We don’t know who their mother is. I don’t think Sarah would be their mother – the kids are too old, considering that the times we saw Sarah in Jack’s FB’s she didn’t have any kids.

    I don’t think she ever hooked up with Christian – that was just Jack’s paranoia getting the better of him.

  208. Bobbi says:

    Uzuri, I agree. When speaking of how Ben gassed people before…how do they know? Who could know that Ben gassed the entire Dharma village? Someone who used to be on his side?

  209. JB says:

    Thinking that the spy on the boat is Saiid (sp?). We’ve already seen him doing work for ben in the ‘future.’ and he was extra insistent on the people taking him back to the boat the first opportunity he could get there.
    We gotta remember that Jack ‘miraculously’ showed up on the island in time to cure ben of the tumor. Who’s to say that he didnt also have Saiid planted the whole time?

  210. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193398"]Hammer-True,BUT if they were planning attack, wouldn’t they just set off the gas, since they had masks? It just seems too corny for me, they have the means (the gas) to use as an ‘attack’, why not just do it. I mean, we already know that saving 815 survivors was not their reason for going to island. Naomi and Abaddon specifically acknowledged to each other that there would not be any survivors. As if to say that they wouldnt be acknowledging survivors if found nor saving them.[/quote]
    Well, you are assuming that not taking the survivors home and not wanting them are the same thing. What if they are interesting in keeping the “special ones” alive, maybe they don’t want to purge everyone.

  211. lost4ever says:

    The SPY on the Boat is….Vincent!
    Remember, you heard it from me first

    The dog is the spy on the boat? Can Ben speak K9? maybe thats another one of his special powers. Also I think Harper was the person that Widmore had captured.

  212. lost chicka says:

    how come juliet didn’t shoot charlotte or daniel? she had no problem killing picket last season.

    deangoodes (158): nobody knows for sure if harper is dead or alive, they are just assuming she’s dead bcuz of the whispers. i don’t think you have to be dead to show up when the whispers happen.

    ben doesn’t shoot or stab people in the back, he does it in front of them…

  213. deangoodes says:

    Harper (Andrea Roth) did look a bit on the weird side but I think they were just trying to ugly her up a bit, I’ve seen her on other shows and she is a beautiful blonde woman.
    As far as the communications room being tore up, that wouldn’t matter to Daniel and Charlotte, they have always used just the SAT phones.

  214. Bobbi says:

    Hammer, I can absolutely see your point. Interesting. I also think that when Ben said in ‘Economist’ to Sayid, “want to protect your friends or not” that he was NOT talking about the Oceanic 6. I think they were referring to the people still on island. So if Ben were also concerned about the well being of those remaining on island, then is that why he has Sayid executing the people involved with frieghtie/widmore/whoever they are. Sayid is killing those people off, could it be because they are still attempting to exploit island, and he wants to let his friends remain on island unharmed?

  215. docjock says:

    They couldn’t release the gas. They absolutely need Ben alive. Miles implied as much when he brokered the deal with Ben.

    And there is no “force” waiting on the ship to attack the island. There was a team of five specialists sent for a specific purpose. Faraday is the time/space guy, Miles is there to commune with Jacob(?), Charlotte is there for the Temple, the pilot has the 815 connection (something more on the way), and of course Naomi was there to protect them.

    Ben is the target, Aaron is the key.

    And, this is a major stretch, so someone shoot it down but, could it be Ekko on the ship? The African port makes me wonder, as does Locke’s reaction. It is far more spectacular than Michael (who really seems most likely).

  216. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193419"]The SPY on the Boat is….Vincent!
    Remember, you heard it from me first

    The dog is the spy on the boat? Can Ben speak K9? maybe thats another one of his special powers. Also I think Harper was the person that Widmore had captured.[/quote]
    Not that I agree that Vincent is the spy, but according to the Lost Missing Pieces, Vincent sure understand Christian’s human speak/English.

  217. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193423"]Harper (Andrea Roth) did look a bit on the weird side but I think they were just trying to ugly her up a bit, I’ve seen her on other shows and she is a beautiful blonde woman.
    As far as the communications room being tore up, that wouldn’t matter to Daniel and Charlotte, they have always used just the SAT phones.[/quote]
    Right, they use sat phones, but to call ship. Wouldn’t they be calling the communications room? Even if everyone is using sat phones now…wouldn’t they be worried about who sabotaged the room? Wouldn’t they be worried when no one was answering their first calls? Worried that something or someone took over the ship?

  218. lost4ever says:

    Is it me or does Miles look like the guy from Dharma in the videotapes

  219. TKemery says:

    If Michael is on the ship, then what happened to Walt?

  220. deangoodes says:

    They may not even know the comm room has been destroyed, they’ve been on the island a couple of days already; and Minkowski said the comm room was destroyed a couple of days ago. I don’t think Charlotte and Daniel have any expertise in communications or the likes and just know how to use their SAT phones.

  221. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="193424"]Hammer, I can absolutely see your point. Interesting. I also think that when Ben said in ‘Economist’ to Sayid, “want to protect your friends or not” that he was NOT talking about the Oceanic 6. I think they were referring to the people still on island. So if Ben were also concerned about the well being of those remaining on island, then is that why he has Sayid executing the people involved with frieghtie/widmore/whoever they are. Sayid is killing those people off, could it be because they are still attempting to exploit island, and he wants to let his friends remain on island unharmed?[/quote]

    i like that theory. that’s what i’d been thinking but you voiced it better. i really think that there are more than 6 survivors but that the rest of them are in hiding, or i guess possibly still on the island. it would just be so sad if there were only six people out of all the characters. :(

  222. Miraks says:

    Not sure about this, but wasn’t Harper the woman Sun shot dead on the boat?

  223. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193422"]how come juliet didn’t shoot charlotte or daniel? she had no problem killing picket last season.

    deangoodes (158): nobody knows for sure if harper is dead or alive, they are just assuming she’s dead bcuz of the whispers. i don’t think you have to be dead to show up when the whispers happen.

    ben doesn’t shoot or stab people in the back, he does it in front of them…[/quote]

    lost chicka. Juliet shot pickett because she thought Ben would let her off the island. When Charlotte said something about trusting Ben i think she changed her mine on killing them. We saw in her flashback how big of a psycho stalker Ben is and she doesn;t trust him. Part 2- I think Harper was the person that Widmore had captured. Maybe she is dead.
    Part 3- Ben shot Locke in the back

  224. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193444"]Not sure about this, but wasn’t Harper the woman Sun shot dead on the boat?[/quote]

    Sun shot the blonde lady, cant remember her name but it was Pcikett’s wife

  225. docjock says:

    Next season will be “Get Aaron Back to the Island.”

  226. Miraks says:

    Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?

  227. sector7 says:

    When Ben takes Jules to see Goodwin, she realizes Ben can see the future. He admits he knew Goodiwin was going to die and he wanted it happen, “because you are mine!”…

  228. Uzuri says:

    no, sun shot someone else. i don’t remember her character name but the actress used to be on third watch (i think?? my memory’s horrible sometimes). and didn’t ben shoot locke when he was facing him? the bullet went out his back, where his kidney used to be.

  229. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193450"]When Ben takes Jules to see Goodwin, she realizes Ben can see the future. He admits he knew Goodiwin was going to die and he wanted it happen, “because you are mine!”…[/quote]

    So if Ben can see the future, and told JUliet u r mine, then he must know that they end up together. Thats a bummer

  230. Uzuri says:

    i don’t understand aaron’s importance. why do you think he’s the key?

  231. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193444"]Not sure about this, but wasn’t Harper the woman Sun shot dead on the boat?[/quote]
    Nope, that was Colleen.

  232. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193457"]i don’t understand aaron’s importance. why do you think he’s the key?[/quote]

    Aaron was the first person born on the island

  233. docjock says:

    Claire was also told that tragedy would ensue if he was raised by anyone but her.

  234. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193449"]Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?[/quote]
    I think that is what we were to think. The only thing is Ben’s puppet Harper is the one that told us they were going to release the gas…lie to not?

  235. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193449"]Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?[/quote]
    In hindsight, I can see that we were being set up through the course of the episode to think Daniel & Charlotte wanted to release the gas. But it turned out they were tryin to somehow fix it so the gas could never be released, I think.

    In an earlier scene, Daniel says something to Charlotte like, “WHat if I can’t do it?” I wonder if he had to remember a precise code to input into the computer to make sure the gas doesn’t go off, and he was worried his memory would fail him again.

  236. RGS says:

    I understand a lot of us Lost Junkies are hyped up after a week of waiting. Some have OD’d and can hardly contain themselves. Sayid has a .0025 percent chance of being Ben’s man on the SHIP (for Bobola). Ben tells Sayid and Locke that he has a man on the boat. I’ve already mentioned that not only the people awaiting the arrival of the heli, NOT recognize Sayid, neither do Dan, Charlotte, or Frank.

    Re: Knowledge of Ben gassing the island. Dharma built the gas machine for whatever reason. It would not seem like a far leap for the Dharma folks outside the island to put two and two together.

    Bobbi, I’m not sure I am following you when you stated if they were planning an attack wouldn’t they set the gas off? I would say yes, but since they didn’t it would seem to suggest they were trying to prevent Ben from doing it.

    Imo I don’t think they were interrupted from trying to emit the gas by Juliette, as Daniel was punching in his little 2.342 11 mghz (I made that up) trying to prevent the countdown. If the machine had already been set in motion to emit gas, why punch numbers on a computer? Put your gas masks on, hide and w8 for the fun to begin.

  237. Uzuri says:

    gotcha. :)

  238. deangoodes says:

    Sector 7 wrote: When Ben takes Jules to see Goodwin, she realizes Ben can see the future. He admits he knew Goodiwin was going to die and he wanted it happen, “because you are mine!”…

    I think some bloggers are taking some things that are said on the show as being definitive even though the character is just trying to impose his will by sounding dominating. This would also be supported by when Harper tells Juliette you HAVE to shoot Charlotte and Miles. These are not necessarily absolute facts, just people trying to sound important.

  239. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193467"]
    I think that is what we were to think. The only thing is Ben’s puppet Harper is the one that told us they were going to release the gas…lie to not?[/quote]
    Dammit Hammer you did beat me to it again!

  240. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193467"][quote comment="193449"]Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?[/quote]
    I think that is what we were to think. The only thing is Ben’s puppet Harper is the one that told us they were going to release the gas…lie to not?[/quote]

    Nit pick, but Harper only told Juliette to stop them, not they were going to release gas.

  241. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="193456"][quote comment="193450"]When Ben takes Jules to see Goodwin, she realizes Ben can see the future. He admits he knew Goodiwin was going to die and he wanted it happen, “because you are mine!”…[/quote]

    So if Ben can see the future, and told JUliet u r mine, then he must know that they end up together. Thats a bummer[/quote]

    ____________________
    I think Ben telling Juliette “you are mine” doesn’t necesserily mean he can see the future, just that he is very possessive and a little psycho (lots of people out there like that).

    I also don’t think that he knew Goodwin would get killed. Sending him there just gave him an excuse to get him away from Juliette for a while and HOPE that Goodwin would get whacked (or, if that didn’t happen, whack Goodwin himself and blame the tailies).

  242. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193476"][quote comment="193467"][quote comment="193449"]Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?[/quote]
    I think that is what we were to think. The only thing is Ben’s puppet Harper is the one that told us they were going to release the gas…lie to not?[/quote]

    Nit pick, but Harper only told Juliette to stop them, not they were going to release gas.[/quote]
    Nit pick back…”The two people you’re looking for–Faraday and Lewis… the Tempest. And if they figure out how to deploy that gas… then everyone on this island is going to die.”

  243. Bobbi says:

    RGS, Harper did tell Juliet to head to Tempest to stop Daniel and Charlotte or else they’d kill everyone on island. I’m not sure she said anything about gas, can’t remember, but I am sure she said they were going to ‘kill everyone on the island’.

  244. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193427"][quote comment="193423"]Harper (Andrea Roth) did look a bit on the weird side but I think they were just trying to ugly her up a bit, I’ve seen her on other shows and she is a beautiful blonde woman.
    As far as the communications room being tore up, that wouldn’t matter to Daniel and Charlotte, they have always used just the SAT phones.[/quote]
    Right, they use sat phones, but to call ship. Wouldn’t they be calling the communications room? Even if everyone is using sat phones now…wouldn’t they be worried about who sabotaged the room? Wouldn’t they be worried when no one was answering their first calls? Worried that something or someone took over the ship?[/quote]

    I agree with dean, in that they have always used the Sat phones and were not calling the ship. When Frank gives Sayid the phone he says, “don’t go calling Baghdad, these things can only call each other.”

  245. rusty075 says:

    1st post!

    The “her” that Juliet reminds Ben of is his “little girlfriend” from his pubescent flashback. Don’t you remember the blond girl on the swingset with the “kissing dolls” that are now old and tattered and in a shoebox in Ben’s closet? Theory: Ben got her pregnant, and she died.

    Ben is not time traveling. That’s exactly the kind of duex ex machina that Lost doesn’t do. Now that it was presented once its too convenient an answer to throw out there when you don’t have any other explanation. The “consciousness separation” is a sidewffect of leaving/arriving at the island improperly. (without its permission?) Bens not magic. If he was the rest of the story just doesn’t make sense. He’s just smart.

  246. PJSander says:

    I am going to ask again, since the first post was long ago.

    Who has the DVD’s and can check last nights “replay” of the flashback where Ben tells Goodwin to go be a survivor against the first time we saw that scene?

    Is Harper really in the scene from the first time they showed it – or was she infused into the same scene using the magic of television – or did they re-shoot the scene completely?

    TIA,
    : ) P

  247. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193422"]how come juliet didn’t shoot charlotte or daniel? she had no problem killing picket last season.

    deangoodes (158): nobody knows for sure if harper is dead or alive, they are just assuming she’s dead bcuz of the whispers. i don’t think you have to be dead to show up when the whispers happen.

    ben doesn’t shoot or stab people in the back, he does it in front of them…[/quote]

    Just a wild guess, but because they had gas masks on, she may have been scared there was some gasses in the air already, and firearms and gas are not a good mix. Also if she shot him we would not have been able to see the cat fight.

  248. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193471"]I understand a lot of us Lost Junkies are hyped up after a week of waiting. Some have OD’d and can hardly contain themselves. Sayid has a .0025 percent chance of being Ben’s man on the SHIP (for Bobola). Ben tells Sayid and Locke that he has a man on the boat. I’ve already mentioned that not only the people awaiting the arrival of the heli, NOT recognize Sayid, neither do Dan, Charlotte, or Frank.

    Re: Knowledge of Ben gassing the island. Dharma built the gas machine for whatever reason. It would not seem like a far leap for the Dharma folks outside the island to put two and two together.

    Bobbi, I’m not sure I am following you when you stated if they were planning an attack wouldn’t they set the gas off? I would say yes, but since they didn’t it would seem to suggest they were trying to prevent Ben from doing it.

    Imo I don’t think they were interrupted from trying to emit the gas by Juliette, as Daniel was punching in his little 2.342 11 mghz (I made that up) trying to prevent the countdown. If the machine had already been set in motion to emit gas, why punch numbers on a computer? Put your gas masks on, hide and w8 for the fun to begin.[/quote]

    I think the chance that Sayid is Ben’s man is a lot greater than u hink. We already know that Sayid becomes Ben’s man in Sayid’s furture episode. It is the perfect cover for Ben’s man to get back to society as himself and operate as Ben’s man. Ben “always has a plan” not simple plans either. He sees things 5 turns out. He would probably be the greatest chess player ever.

  249. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193481"][quote comment="193476"][quote comment="193467"][quote comment="193449"]Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?[/quote]
    I think that is what we were to think. The only thing is Ben’s puppet Harper is the one that told us they were going to release the gas…lie to not?[/quote]

    Nit pick, but Harper only told Juliette to stop them, not they were going to release gas.[/quote]
    Nit pick back…”The two people you’re looking for–Faraday and Lewis… the Tempest. And if they figure out how to deploy that gas… then everyone on this island is going to die.”[/quote]

    Good catch I stand corrected. You too Bobbi.

  250. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193492"][quote comment="193471"]I understand a lot of us Lost Junkies are hyped up after a week of waiting. Some have OD’d and can hardly contain themselves. Sayid has a .0025 percent chance of being Ben’s man on the SHIP (for Bobola). Ben tells Sayid and Locke that he has a man on the boat. I’ve already mentioned that not only the people awaiting the arrival of the heli, NOT recognize Sayid, neither do Dan, Charlotte, or Frank.

    Re: Knowledge of Ben gassing the island. Dharma built the gas machine for whatever reason. It would not seem like a far leap for the Dharma folks outside the island to put two and two together.

    Bobbi, I’m not sure I am following you when you stated if they were planning an attack wouldn’t they set the gas off? I would say yes, but since they didn’t it would seem to suggest they were trying to prevent Ben from doing it.

    Imo I don’t think they were interrupted from trying to emit the gas by Juliette, as Daniel was punching in his little 2.342 11 mghz (I made that up) trying to prevent the countdown. If the machine had already been set in motion to emit gas, why punch numbers on a computer? Put your gas masks on, hide and w8 for the fun to begin.[/quote]

    I think the chance that Sayid is Ben’s man is a lot greater than u hink. We already know that Sayid becomes Ben’s man in Sayid’s furture episode. It is the perfect cover for Ben’s man to get back to society as himself and operate as Ben’s man. Ben “always has a plan” not simple plans either. He sees things 5 turns out. He would probably be the greatest chess player ever.[/quote]

    Now that is not a good catch :P.

  251. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="193487"]I am going to ask again, since the first post was long ago.

    Who has the DVD’s and can check last nights “replay” of the flashback where Ben tells Goodwin to go be a survivor against the first time we saw that scene?

    Is Harper really in the scene from the first time they showed it – or was she infused into the same scene using the magic of television – or did they re-shoot the scene completely?

    TIA,
    : ) P[/quote]

    i answered a little further up. well, speculated. i think they just re-shot it. i don’t remember juliet being surprised when goodwin was chosen, but then again, maybe i just didn’t notice. i’d have to check when i get home. that’s season 2, right?

  252. docjock says:

    Anyone else think the island is Shambhala/Xanadu?

    That sure looks like the diagram Locke saw in the hatch (look it up on wikipedia). Many, many other facts line up as well.

    Not exactly episode relevant, should I post this on a “general” thread? (I’m new here)

  253. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193487"]I am going to ask again, since the first post was long ago.

    Who has the DVD’s and can check last nights “replay” of the flashback where Ben tells Goodwin to go be a survivor against the first time we saw that scene?

    Is Harper really in the scene from the first time they showed it – or was she infused into the same scene using the magic of television – or did they re-shoot the scene completely?

    TIA,
    : ) P[/quote]
    Harper was not in the original scene “Tales of Two Cities”. Don’t know if it’s a reshoot or infusion yet.

  254. Meg says:

    [quote comment="193500"][quote comment="193487"]I am going to ask again, since the first post was long ago.

    Who has the DVD’s and can check last nights “replay” of the flashback where Ben tells Goodwin to go be a survivor against the first time we saw that scene?

    Is Harper really in the scene from the first time they showed it – or was she infused into the same scene using the magic of television – or did they re-shoot the scene completely?

    TIA,
    : ) P[/quote]

    i answered a little further up. well, speculated. i think they just re-shot it. i don’t remember juliet being surprised when goodwin was chosen, but then again, maybe i just didn’t notice. i’d have to check when i get home. that’s season 2, right?[/quote]
    Season three, season premiere

  255. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193493"]‘sall good!

    Good catch I stand corrected. You too Bobbi.[/quote]

  256. skweez says:

    Here’s a thought concerning Ben’s “man” on the boat. The way the dialogue was set up, we were led to believe that Ben received his info. on the freighter tots from his spy on the boat. But could it have been that he already had that info. (especially since he knew about Widmore and said that it was his boat). And that he does have a spy on the boat, NOW, that Dez and Sayid are there?

  257. Miraks says:

    A thought on Harper. this is from Ecyclopedia Britanicca (a reliable source, I would say.

    Definition of Harpy
    in Greco-Roman classical mythology, a fabulous creature, probably a wind spirit. The presence of harpies as tomb figures, however, makes it possible that they were also conceived of as ghosts. In Homer’s Odyssey they were winds that carried people away. Elsewhere, they were sometimes connected with the powers of the underworld.

  258. skweez says:

    [quote comment="193425"]They couldn’t release the gas. They absolutely need Ben alive. Miles implied as much when he brokered the deal with Ben.

    And there is no “force” waiting on the ship to attack the island. There was a team of five specialists sent for a specific purpose. Faraday is the time/space guy, Miles is there to commune with Jacob(?), Charlotte is there for the Temple, the pilot has the 815 connection (something more on the way), and of course Naomi was there to protect them.

    Ben is the target, Aaron is the key.

    And, this is a major stretch, so someone shoot it down but, could it be Ekko on the ship? The African port makes me wonder, as does Locke’s reaction. It is far more spectacular than Michael (who really seems most likely).[/quote]

    Now THAT would def. be a reason for Ben to tell Locke to sit down!

  259. Meg says:

    [quote comment="193508"]Here’s a thought concerning Ben’s “man” on the boat. The way the dialogue was set up, we were led to believe that Ben received his info. on the freighter tots from his spy on the boat. But could it have been that he already had that info. (especially since he knew about Widmore and said that it was his boat). And that he does have a spy on the boat, NOW, that Dez and Sayid are there?[/quote]
    Then who let Sayid and Des out of the sick bay?

  260. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193486"]1st post!

    The “her” that Juliet reminds Ben of is his “little girlfriend” from his pubescent flashback. Don’t you remember the blond girl on the swingset with the “kissing dolls” that are now old and tattered and in a shoebox in Ben’s closet? Theory: Ben got her pregnant, and she died.

    Ben is not time traveling. That’s exactly the kind of duex ex machina that Lost doesn’t do. Now that it was presented once its too convenient an answer to throw out there when you don’t have any other explanation. The “consciousness separation” is a sidewffect of leaving/arriving at the island improperly. (without its permission?) Bens not magic. If he was the rest of the story just doesn’t make sense. He’s just smart.[/quote]

    I tend to agree with your theories.

  261. Uzuri says:

    i keep wondering why claire wanted to speak to miles. was it because kate was so persistant? i didn’t understand where claire came from with that.

  262. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193340"][quote comment="193314"]Once again I loved last night’s episode. I do have a couple of questions. Had we seen Harper before, and if she’s dead how and when did she die?
    And do we know that Widmore sent Desmond to the island? Did he map out Des’ round the world boat trip? Or is it just a big coincidence that Des came upon the island, the same one the love of his life’s father is trying to find?
    Also, I wanted to say my thoughts about Daniel and Charlotte seemed to be proved accurate, at least for now, as they do not want to harm the Losties at all. They just want to find Ben, for whatever purpose we will have to wait and see.[/quote]

    She seemed so familiar but the IMDB only has her listed in one episode last night (Andrea Roth). We don’t know anything about her being dead, or potentially dead for certain.

    Some people believe Widmore set Des up, it could also be somewhat of a coincidence that Des ended up on the island. I’m going with some kind of modified version of the former.[/quote]

    Harper may now be dead. I think she was the one that Widmore had on Ben’s videotape.

  263. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="193486"]1st post!

    Ben is not time traveling. That’s exactly the kind of duex ex machina that Lost doesn’t do. Now that it was presented once its too convenient an answer to throw out there when you don’t have any other explanation. The “consciousness separation” is a sidewffect of leaving/arriving at the island improperly. (without its permission?) Bens not magic. If he was the rest of the story just doesn’t make sense. He’s just smart.[/quote]

    Rusty – nice. I had to look up duex ex machina. I believe this contradicts the part of the storyline that includes Mrs. Hawking. Her existence means at least 2 people on the show can see the future. Daniel said to Jack that it is known that “some people have this side effect”. So maybe there are more than 2?

  264. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193520"]i keep wondering why claire wanted to speak to miles. was it because kate was so persistant? i didn’t understand where claire came from with that.[/quote]
    To me it was just the set up Locke needed to pursue whose boat it is with Ben…then Ben told him who’s boat it is.

  265. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="193525"][quote comment="193486"]1st post!

    Ben is not time traveling. That’s exactly the kind of duex ex machina that Lost doesn’t do. Now that it was presented once its too convenient an answer to throw out there when you don’t have any other explanation. The “consciousness separation” is a sidewffect of leaving/arriving at the island improperly. (without its permission?) Bens not magic. If he was the rest of the story just doesn’t make sense. He’s just smart.[/quote]

    Rusty – nice. I had to look up duex ex machina. I believe this contradicts the part of the storyline that includes Mrs. Hawking. Her existence means at least 2 people on the show can see the future. Daniel said to Jack that it is known that “some people have this side effect”. So maybe there are more than 2?[/quote]

    Oh yeah. George and Brandon had the ability. That makes 4.

  266. Tim says:

    “…Recalling Widmore/Desmond in the bathroom in “The Constant”: Seems to me Widmore knew Desmond was time traveling. He gave him Penny’s information because he needed Desmond to be calling Penny in the future. He left the water running (with the drain stopped) as he walked out on purpose, but I don’t know the reason….”

    Much of the time traveling seems to occur when water is nearby, like rain during the basic training of Desmond.
    In one case he wakes up near what might be a water pipe in a stairwell.

  267. Tim says:

    “…I think the chance that Sayid is Ben’s man is a lot greater than u think. …”

    How could he get to and from the boat? This consciousness time traveling only occurs between different times but the person has to be at that location the consciousness travels to.

  268. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment="193536"]“…Recalling Widmore/Desmond in the bathroom in “The Constant”: Seems to me Widmore knew Desmond was time traveling. He gave him Penny’s information because he needed Desmond to be calling Penny in the future. He left the water running (with the drain stopped) as he walked out on purpose, but I don’t know the reason….”

    Much of the time traveling seems to occur when water is nearby, like rain during the basic training of Desmond.
    In one case he wakes up near what might be a water pipe in a stairwell.[/quote]

    that’s interesting. kind of like what someone said on “the constant” thread about how there always seems to be a storm when people come and go from the island. maybe widmore knew that because that bothered me that he didn’t turn the water off. but maybe that’s just the environmentalist in me, hehe. but what made desmond go back to ’96 because i don’t think there was water involved with that…

  269. UnLocke says:

    I don’t think Juliet is an honorable character. Yes, the stuff with Ben is rather creepy, and I feel bad for her, but she knowingly has an affair with a married man while on a work assignment. I know I am not the moral police, but her affair is only further proof of her lack of morality. We know she has killed and had an affair. I can’t say that her actions make her look so trustworthy. Personally, I think her sweet words to Jack are manipulative, too. Afterall, we know that Jack still loves Kate in the future, not Juliet. She asks Jack with big, puppy dog eyes, “Will you help me?” If there is one thing Jack wants to do, it is to help people. She’s playing him for her own agenda. She may have been a somewhat good person upon arriving on the island, but in all the time she has spent with Ben, she has learned to be a ruthless, calculating soul. I don’t trust her for a second, and I wish Jack would stop believing her.

  270. lost chicka says:

    Bobbi (186): i have been thinking the same thing as you. and obviously something has to happen to make penny & des fall in love again & come find him at the stadium in LA & search for him for 3 years. i think the flash backs des has had before are AFTER 1996.

    Bobola (201): oh yes, juliet is such a nice person. she’s murdered, she’s cheated, she’s a liar….i like juliet a lot more then last season, i just still don’t trust her.

    I wonder if we’ll ever see flashforwards of people staying on the island (ex. sawyer, locke, etc.). That would be interesting to see.

    i’m pretty sure locke was shot facing ben. bcuz if he was shot from behing he’d have been face down in the pit & not looking up at ben. also didn’t locke say it went OUT his back when he was talking to sawyer?

    i still think it was hilarious when ben was like “you’re mine” to juliet throwing a fit (i’m surprised he wasn’t on the ground kicking an screaming) and then calm as day “take your time.”

  271. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="193539"]I don’t think Juliet is an honorable character. Yes, the stuff with Ben is rather creepy, and I feel bad for her, but she knowingly has an affair with a married man while on a work assignment. I know I am not the moral police, but her affair is only further proof of her lack of morality. We know she has killed and had an affair. I can’t say that her actions make her look so trustworthy. Personally, I think her sweet words to Jack are manipulative, too. Afterall, we know that Jack still loves Kate in the future, not Juliet. She asks Jack with big, puppy dog eyes, “Will you help me?” If there is one thing Jack wants to do, it is to help people. She’s playing him for her own agenda. She may have been a somewhat good person upon arriving on the island, but in all the time she has spent with Ben, she has learned to be a ruthless, calculating soul. I don’t trust her for a second, and I wish Jack would stop believing her.[/quote]
    She’s using Jack to help her escape from Ben. How does Juliet know how to fight so well? She kicked major ass in this ep and in the one where she used kung-fu on Kate in the billiard room.

  272. dukewm says:

    Damn, 1 1/2 hours to catch up and it’s really a pain when you refresh to find 50 more posts to read before posting.

    Anyway, here’s how I tie it together:
    Widmore is controlling the Freighter and sent the team in to PREVENT the gas from being released.
    Ben has sent someone to the Tempest to initiate a timed RELEASE and kill everyone on the Island.
    Harper (or smokey) told Jules to kill Faraday & Charlotte to PREVENT them from turning the sequence OFF (she was lying to Jules).
    Widmore wants to control the Island for monetary reasons, i.e. the Island will become a huge attraction. (remember when Ben told Locke something like “imagine how many people will come to see the miraculous ‘cure’ of a man in a wheelchair who survived a plane crash” – and a gunshot wound).
    Charlotte was trying to convince Faraday that he could STOP the release (they had the masks for protection in case he FAILED).
    Charlotte & Faraday had to sneak out of camp and get to the Tempest without having to convince anyone of their mission AND in order to avoid being STOPPED (they knew somebody would try to stop them).

    Another point:
    (if anyone recalls), I mentioned several weeks ago that Widmore was behind Desmond’s arrival. He baited him into the race, set the course to traverse somewhere near where he suspected the Island might be and then got Radzinski (was that the name of the guy who was in the Swan that Des killed?) to let the 108 minutes elapse, thereby RELEASING a significant electro-magnetic gravitational force to “pull” his sailboat onto the rocks. He could have tracked Des’ progress with a transmitter planted on the Elizabeth.
    And yeah, the Elizabeth was granted to Des by the woman Widmore sent to “bump into him”.

    Widmore bought the Black Rock Journal to see if there was any navigational clues about the Island coordinates that may have been entered right before they crashed.
    I agree it’s a “stretch” on how that Journal got back to the real world.

    Oh yeah:
    Wonder why Jules told Jack (something like)
    “trust me, you don’t want to see my file Jack”
    SHE is DEFINITELY a threat and will NOT reveal any more than she needs to as she goes along, (she desperately wants to get back to Sis & nephew at ANY cost).

    stay tuned ‘Losties’

  273. deangoodes says:

    She was a single woman in whatever city it is when Alpert came and got her. It is not a stretch by any means to think she would have taken some self-defense courses.

  274. Lisa says:

    [quote comment="193538"][quote comment="193536"]“…Recalling Widmore/Desmond in the bathroom in “The Constant”: Seems to me Widmore knew Desmond was time traveling. He gave him Penny’s information because he needed Desmond to be calling Penny in the future. He left the water running (with the drain stopped) as he walked out on purpose, but I don’t know the reason….”

    Much of the time traveling seems to occur when water is nearby, like rain during the basic training of Desmond.
    In one case he wakes up near what might be a water pipe in a stairwell.[/quote]

    that’s interesting. kind of like what someone said on “the constant” thread about how there always seems to be a storm when people come and go from the island. maybe widmore knew that because that bothered me that he didn’t turn the water off. but maybe that’s just the environmentalist in me, hehe. but what made desmond go back to ’96 because i don’t think there was water involved with that…[/quote]

    It was raining at the military camp.

    I was bothered by the stopper being in the sink. I can’t recall ever seeing someone use a stopper in a public restroom (I’ve never used it). Lots of public restrooms I’ve been in don’t even have that option. So I didn’t understand why it would’ve been in except to mean something with the water overflowing…

    I apologize, I know this is the area for last night’s episode!

  275. Tina says:

    On Juliet: Clearly she’s badass and a manor threat the the longterm safety of the Losties & the others. She’s a wildcard. I’m unsure of her loyalities to anyone at this point in the sotryline. Clearly she wants to go home and will do whatever it takes to get there, including kill people.

    She really is a perfect match for Ben and I think when he brought her to the island, he knew that. This episode was as much about her as it was about Ben. As far as her being “the other woman” I think this references her affair, and her relationship to whomever she looks like to Ben. She is also the “Other” woman. I think that’s important for us to remember. It calls her loyalty into question. I can’t remember if it was in the Constant or the episode before, but someone makes reference to Juliet being “one of us” when the freighter tots freak out that she’s a “native”. We need to remember (and so does Jack) that she never was and isn’t now one of the Losties. She’s not an O6er and she’s certainly NOT to be trusted.

  276. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="193524"]She seemed so familiar but the IMDB only has her listed in one episode last night (Andrea Roth).[/quote]

    I don’t think she has appeared before, but FWIW, if an actor does not have a speaking role, his or her name does not usually appear in any credits, and by extension would not appear in IMDB. Plus IMDB is not infallible. I don’t think either applies here, but thought it might be worth mentioning.

    sector7 wrote: How does Juliet know how to fight so well? She kicked major ass in this ep and in the one where she used kung-fu on Kate in the billiard room.

    I expect she attended the JJ Abrams Academy of Kick-Ass Fighting (with Sydney Bristow).

    : ) P

  277. Tim says:

    I was just thinking. These manifestations of people that we are attributing to the island itself, like Harper in this episode, are they actual flesh and blood people or just mirages.
    My point being that when Charlie showed up at Hurley’s hospital in the flash forward, could that have been done by the island itself also?
    Who is to say that it is limited in its range?

  278. dukewm says:

    The “Man on the Boat” ?

    Hmmmmmm ?
    How ’bout Richard Alpert ?

  279. Tim says:

    “…that’s interesting. kind of like what someone said on “the constant” thread about how there always seems to be a storm when people come and go from the island. maybe widmore knew that because that bothered me that he didn’t turn the water off. but maybe that’s just the environmentalist in me, hehe. but what made desmond go back to ‘96 because i don’t think there was water involved with that……”

    They were in a helicopter over water, flying through some storm clouds.

  280. dukewm says:

    the “Man on the Boat” II ?

    I also like Charlie. (CHARLIE # 173)

  281. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193557"]“…that’s interesting. kind of like what someone said on “the constant” thread about how there always seems to be a storm when people come and go from the island. maybe widmore knew that because that bothered me that he didn’t turn the water off. but maybe that’s just the environmentalist in me, hehe. but what made desmond go back to ‘96 because i don’t think there was water involved with that……”

    They were in a helicopter over water, flying through some storm clouds.[/quote]
    No water in his first travel, he was in bed. No water when he was at Oxford in Faraday’s office. No water when walking away from Penny’s apartment with the number…just saying…

  282. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193550"]
    I was bothered by the stopper being in the sink. I can’t recall ever seeing someone use a stopper in a public restroom (I’ve never used it). Lots of public restrooms I’ve been in don’t even have that option. So I didn’t understand why it would’ve been in except to mean something with the water overflowing…
    [/quote]
    This was discussed a bit last week in the thread for “The Constant”. I don’t think there was a stopper in place – they didn’t show Widmore putting it in place. It could just be that the pipe was partially clogged, so the rate at which the water drained was slower than the rate it came out of the faucet.

  283. skweez says:

    [quote comment="193487"]I am going to ask again, since the first post was long ago.

    Who has the DVD’s and can check last nights “replay” of the flashback where Ben tells Goodwin to go be a survivor against the first time we saw that scene?

    Is Harper really in the scene from the first time they showed it – or was she infused into the same scene using the magic of television – or did they re-shoot the scene completely?

    TIA,
    : ) P[/quote]

    Just watched S3E1 and S3E16 and Harper wasn’t in either shots. I believe she was super imposed.

  284. dukewm says:

    The electro-magnetic force that now surrounds the Island, i.e. after Des blew the hatch, is causing severe thunderstorms.
    Severe enough to bring down 2 helos, cause clocks to “bend” inaccurately, and make the daylight appear (what did Faraday say?) diffused.
    Still a dangerous place for ships and aircraft.

  285. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193554"]I was just thinking. These manifestations of people that we are attributing to the island itself, like Harper in this episode, are they actual flesh and blood people or just mirages.
    My point being that when Charlie showed up at Hurley’s hospital in the flash forward, could that have been done by the island itself also?
    Who is to say that it is limited in its range?[/quote]
    Hmmm. Good question. Makes me think back to when the Others were questioning Michael (Mrs.So&So) asked Michael about Walt “has he ever been somewhere he shouldn’t be?”. Something to that effect. As if to say he had powers of some sort. Interesting that Charlie shows up at Hurley’s hospital telling him that he “has to” do something. Just like Harper told Juliet that she must do something. In fact, most of the ‘appearances’ that I can think of were giving some sort of directive.

  286. skweez says:

    Then who let Sayid and Des out of the sick bay?[/quote]

    It could be Lapidus for all we know. Lapidus seems like he wants to help, and that doesn’t mean he’s Ben’s man on the boat.

  287. Tim says:

    “…how come juliet didn’t shoot charlotte or daniel? she had no problem killing picket last season….”

    Wouldn’t she have died from the poisonous gas?

  288. Bobbi says:

    I’m not sure I buy into the water theme theory for the time traveling. It’s a tropical island, which is prone to many storms. There have been storms in the past, plenty. The rain stops as fast as it starts, always been that way on this show. I don’t think it has to do with either time travel, and I don’t think it has to do with hatch blowing up.

  289. skweez says:

    [quote comment="193541"]Bobbi (186): i have been thinking the same thing as you. and obviously something has to happen to make penny & des fall in love again & come find him at the stadium in LA & search for him for 3 years. i think the flash backs des has had before are AFTER 1996.

    Bobola (201): oh yes, juliet is such a nice person. she’s murdered, she’s cheated, she’s a liar….i like juliet a lot more then last season, i just still don’t trust her.

    I wonder if we’ll ever see flashforwards of people staying on the island (ex. sawyer, locke, etc.). That would be interesting to see.

    i’m pretty sure locke was shot facing ben. bcuz if he was shot from behing he’d have been face down in the pit & not looking up at ben. also didn’t locke say it went OUT his back when he was talking to sawyer?

    i still think it was hilarious when ben was like “you’re mine” to juliet throwing a fit (i’m surprised he wasn’t on the ground kicking an screaming) and then calm as day “take your time.”[/quote]

    I think Penny finally got a hold of all the letters Dez wrote and this is what made her fall in love with him again!

  290. Tim says:

    “..This was discussed a bit last week in the thread for “The Constant”. I don’t think there was a stopper in place – they didn’t show Widmore putting it in place. It could just be that the pipe was partially clogged, so the rate at which the water drained was slower than the rate it came out of the faucet….”

    Where did he toss the paper towel he used to dry his hands? Or did he use it to open the door?

  291. skweez says:

    [quote comment="193568"]“..This was discussed a bit last week in the thread for “The Constant”. I don’t think there was a stopper in place – they didn’t show Widmore putting it in place. It could just be that the pipe was partially clogged, so the rate at which the water drained was slower than the rate it came out of the faucet….”

    Where did he toss the paper towel he used to dry his hands? Or did he use it to open the door?[/quote]

    They never showed him drying his hands…

  292. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193568"]“..This was discussed a bit last week in the thread for “The Constant”. I don’t think there was a stopper in place – they didn’t show Widmore putting it in place. It could just be that the pipe was partially clogged, so the rate at which the water drained was slower than the rate it came out of the faucet….”

    Where did he toss the paper towel he used to dry his hands? Or did he use it to open the door?[/quote]
    I think he was using a cloth towel, he used it to turn sink on, as if not to touch it himself. That is probably why he simply let the water run, he didn’t want to touch faucet. It also helps us to see that he cares nothing about conservation, lol. All joking aside, its a good way to show us that he is not interested in the island for conservation reasons. He could care less about the environment, just about himself.

  293. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193560"][quote comment="193550"]
    I was bothered by the stopper being in the sink. I can’t recall ever seeing someone use a stopper in a public restroom (I’ve never used it). Lots of public restrooms I’ve been in don’t even have that option. So I didn’t understand why it would’ve been in except to mean something with the water overflowing…
    [/quote]
    This was discussed a bit last week in the thread for “The Constant”. I don’t think there was a stopper in place – they didn’t show Widmore putting it in place. It could just be that the pipe was partially clogged, so the rate at which the water drained was slower than the rate it came out of the faucet.[/quote]

    I don’t know why I’m encouraging this, but maybe Widmore’s evil self, just threw the hand towel into the sink after he dried his hands.

  294. Bobbi says:

    You know, my husband brought up a really good point last night. WHY was Widmore kicking ass in the alley? Nothing about Widmore seems like he would do any of his own dirty work? Why do we see him beating someone up, seems out of place, and way out of character. The guy can’t shut off his own sink, but he’ll fight? And if you add that with how he looks up at camera at end of footage, it almost makes me think it was staged. Totally out of place.

  295. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193561"][quote comment="193487"]I am going to ask again, since the first post was long ago.

    Who has the DVD’s and can check last nights “replay” of the flashback where Ben tells Goodwin to go be a survivor against the first time we saw that scene?

    Is Harper really in the scene from the first time they showed it – or was she infused into the same scene using the magic of television – or did they re-shoot the scene completely?

    TIA,
    : ) P[/quote]

    Just watched S3E1 and S3E16 and Harper wasn’t in either shots. I believe she was super imposed.[/quote]

    Are you guys checking this to suggest…dare I type it, these guys are making stuff up as they go along or just morbid curiosity?

  296. Tim says:

    “…No water in his first travel, he was in bed….”

    So did he travel from the bed to the helicopter or from the helicopter to the bed? Or both?

  297. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193574"]“…No water in his first travel, he was in bed….”

    So did he travel from the bed to the helicopter or from the helicopter to the bed? Or both?[/quote]
    Just my opinion, but I stated before that it seemed like 1996 Des was traveling to 2004 because 2004 Des didn’t know what was going on around him, but 1996 Des did.

  298. Tina says:

    [quote comment="193576"][quote comment="193574"]“…No water in his first travel, he was in bed….”

    So did he travel from the bed to the helicopter or from the helicopter to the bed? Or both?[/quote]
    Just my opinion, but I stated before that it seemed like 1996 Des was traveling to 2004 because 2004 Des didn’t know what was going on around him, but 1996 Des did.[/quote]
    ________
    I thought it was confirmed that the 1996 consciousness was travelling to the 2004 body and then back again to the 1996 body. The 2004 consciousness never moved.

  299. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193576"][quote comment="193574"]“…No water in his first travel, he was in bed….”

    So did he travel from the bed to the helicopter or from the helicopter to the bed? Or both?[/quote]
    Just my opinion, but I stated before that it seemed like 1996 Des was traveling to 2004 because 2004 Des didn’t know what was going on around him, but 1996 Des did.[/quote]
    Didn’t Des do this before though? I mean where he jumped around from place/place and that is what his visions basically were? The difference is, he always stayed oriented, he knew he was in different place/time. This time, because of the ‘side effect’ he wasn’t oriented, he needed a ‘constant’.

  300. PJSander says:

    [[quote comment="193573"]Are you guys checking this to suggest…dare I type it, these guys are making stuff up as they go along or just morbid curiosity?[/quote]

    I asked that someone check it because the scene looked a LOT like the original scene as I remembered it. I also know that in the Nikki and Paulo episodes, they superimposed Nikki into a scene which flashed back to the day of the crash, so I knew it was something they did. However, there was one scene when the camera appeared to pan over Harper, and seemed to hesitate on her as if to say, “See, she is in this scene” which is what piqued my curiosity.

    As far as TPTB “making stuff up as they go along” the answer is a hearty no! I just discovered the original podcasts (done at the beginning of season 2) and in the very first one, D&C teased each other about not letting the “time travel” element slip. They were joking as if it would never happen, and that’s why they let it “slip” but here we are two full seasons later, and we’ve only JUST been given actual evidence of it.

    They also talked about planting the seeds in Season 1 for Mr. Eko’s flashback which happened in Season 2. These guys are geniuses.

    : ) P

  301. Tim says:

    Here is an interesting screen shot from another site.

  302. Tim says:

    “…No water in his first travel, he was in bed….”

    So did he travel from the bed to the helicopter or from the helicopter to the bed? Or both?

    Just my opinion, but I stated before that it seemed like 1996 Des was traveling to 2004 because 2004 Des didn’t know what was going on around him, but 1996 Des did.

    Didn’t Des do this before though? I mean where he jumped around from place/place and that is what his visions basically were? The difference is, he always stayed oriented, he knew he was in different place/time. This time, because of the ’side effect’ he wasn’t oriented, he needed a ‘constant’….

    Anyway, when he was in bed, there was rain all around him, it was raining cats and dogs outside. How far was his head from the wall of the barracks?

  303. RGS says:

    Has there been a manifestation that has suggested or prodded someone to do something that we are fairly certain was a positive thing? I’m leaning toward believing that the manifestations are bad news. This would/could include Charlie manifesting to Hurley. He had on all black too. The talking manifestations seem to ask a person to do something that we may ultimately view as negative.

    Yemi-Eko–Killed him.
    Dave-Hurley, tried to get Hurley to commit suicide right or was that Libby?
    Walt-Locke–kill Naomi
    Harper-Juliette–stop them from shutting gas off
    Charlie-Hurley???

    Also it seems that these human manifestations have menacing glares when they are talking to their target. I can’t remember what Walt looked like or Dave for that matter.

  304. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193583"]
    Anyway, when he was in bed, there was rain all around him, it was raining cats and dogs outside. How far was his head from the wall of the barracks?[/quote]
    That’s a stretch, but what about at Oxford, or when leaving Penny’s?

  305. GeriBNJ says:

    Michael has to be on the boat….. he is listed on IMDB as being in next weeks episode and not just in the credits…

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0994367/

  306. Tim says:

    “…That’s a stretch, but what about at Oxford, or when leaving Penny’s?…”

    That’s why it almost seems like he is traveling back from 2004 – to get the phone number from Penny. Not traveling up to 2004.
    So he travels back to 1996 to get the info and then when he get it he travels back to 2004.

    Also, Daniel tells Desmond to go and see him at Oxford when it happens again. Which means when he time travels again. Meaning he isn’t time traveling at that point in time in 2004.

  307. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    [quote comment="193425"]They couldn’t release the gas. They absolutely need Ben alive. Miles implied as much when he brokered the deal with Ben.

    And there is no “force” waiting on the ship to attack the island. There was a team of five specialists sent for a specific purpose. Faraday is the time/space guy, Miles is there to commune with Jacob(?), Charlotte is there for the Temple, the pilot has the 815 connection (something more on the way), and of course Naomi was there to protect them.

    Ben is the target, Aaron is the key.

    And, this is a major stretch, so someone shoot it down but, could it be Ekko on the ship? The African port makes me wonder, as does Locke’s reaction. It is far more spectacular than Michael (who really seems most likely).[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This is the most believable scenario I have seen! Well thought out DocJoc!! I think you nailed it!

  308. JATER says:

    OK, I never really liked Juliet but the battle lines have now been drawn. Hitting Kate in the head – THAT was uncalled for. Jack must be on some kind of meds to go for a wacko like that. Sure, Kate blew up her dad but she never hit anyone over the head. LISTEN UP JATERS!! There is still hope if we stick together.

  309. ScariW says:

    To those of you with the “water” connection . . .

    I definitely think water plays some part in the equation here. First of all, the island itself, by just being an island, is surrounded by water. Secondly, the rain coming and going has got to be significant. Third, the overflowing water in the bathroom when Desmond and Widmore were talking.

    Also, does anyone remember when Hurley did the canonball a few episodes ago? Was that HIS flashforward episode? At first I thought that the canonball was “comic relief” but I am having second thoughts.

    Can someone help me analyze here?

  310. Meg says:

    [quote comment="193591"]OK, I never really liked Juliet but the battle lines have now been drawn. Hitting Kate in the head – THAT was uncalled for. Jack must be on some kind of meds to go for a wacko like that. Sure, Kate blew up her dad but she never hit anyone over the head. LISTEN UP JATERS!! There is still hope if we stick together.[/quote]
    Um, did I miss something?

  311. LostinSev says:

    When did Juliet hit Kate?? That was Charlotte that hit Kate last night.

  312. Hammer says:

    Hey Jater, that was Charlotte that hit Kate.

  313. Amarie says:

    I don’t know if someone brought this up yet but juliet told jack that she couldn’t go into all the details of what she knows b/c he would be in danger…couple that with harper appearing and disappearing in a flash…what if ben can tap into juliet feelings or mind and if she told jack ben would know and thus be in danger?
    any thoughts?

  314. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    Help me remember back, who died and how. If my theory is correct, when somebody dies due to the island (smokey, electrical fence, etc…) they aren’t really dead (Echo, Patchy, others(?) but if they are killed by people on the island then they are really dead. I really believe there’s something here. I also think Echo is the man on the boat. Great theory DocJoc!!

  315. dave says:

    Ben’s man on the boat is…..Locke! That’s why he told him to sit down.

  316. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    It’s also funny how so many people watch the same show and see different things. It was Charlotte who hit Kate, Jaters! Not Juliette! This is why so many people get convicted on bad witness testimony. ; )

  317. Freckles says:

    Was Goodwin’s chemical burn from the gas chamber? Was he snooping around in there or does he work there?

    I kept staring at Harper’s mole when they did close-ups of her. LOL. And did you see what Ben did when Juliet first stepped into her new house…he stared at her butt!!! And Kate’s hair was just *WiLd*…must be all that humidity.

    For some reason, I don’t really trust Juliet. She’s a man-stealer, information-withholder, and she did kind of follow Ben’s commands (except for the shooting part).

    My fave line – Hurley: “I guess I’m just lucky.”

  318. docjock says:

    More Shambhala/Xanadu/Hollow Earth references –

    “The Old Ones – In an article entitled “The Hollow Earth: Myth or Reality” for Atlantis Rising, Brad Steiger writes of the legends of “the Old Ones,” an ancient race that populated the surface world millions of years ago and then moved underground. “The Old Ones, an immensely intelligent and scientifically advanced race,” Steiger writes, “have chosen to structure their own environment under the surface of the planet and manufacture all their necessities.”
    “The Old Ones are hominid, extremely long-lived, and pre-date Homo sapiens by more than a million years. The Old Ones generally remain aloof from the surface peoples, but from time to time, they have been known to offer constructive criticism; and it has been said, they often kidnap human children to tutor and rear as their own.”

    Also –

    “The Smoky God, or A Voyage Journey to the Inner Earth is a novel of 1908 by Willis George Emerson (1856..1918), which is presented as a true account of the Norwegian sailor Olaf Jansen and explains how Jansen’s sloop sailed through an entrance to the Earth’s interior at the North Pole. It is notable as an early story about an underground civilization.”

    If the Valenzetti numbers reflect the impending doom of humanity on Earth, it might be that the island is the only safe refuge from the disaster – thus, Widmore and everyone’s else’s extreme interest. It’s more than exploitation and money, guaranteed.

  319. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="193591"]OK, I never really liked Juliet but the battle lines have now been drawn. Hitting Kate in the head – THAT was uncalled for. Jack must be on some kind of meds to go for a wacko like that. Sure, Kate blew up her dad but she never hit anyone over the head. LISTEN UP JATERS!! There is still hope if we stick together.[/quote]
    It was Charlotte that hit Kate in the head.

  320. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193598"]Help me remember back, who died and how. If my theory is correct, when somebody dies due to the island (smokey, electrical fence, etc…) they aren’t really dead (Echo, Patchy, others(?) but if they are killed by people on the island then they are really dead. I really believe there’s something here. I also think Echo is the man on the boat. Great theory DocJoc!![/quote]

    Desmond kills Patchy. Are you trying to count the sonic fence as a mysterious island “mechanism?”

  321. docjock says:

    Also, Also –

    The biggest desire of the Others has been to be able to reproduce -> to repopulate the Earth from this safe haven once the planet has been wiped clean?

  322. sector7 says:

    Seems obvious that Michael is Ben’s “man”. Ben must have communicated with Michael after he left the pier and before he reached the frieghter. Is it possible that Michael and Walt went straight from the island to the frieghter? Or did they make it to civilization first, then only Michael went to the frieghter? With the time displacement coming to and from the island, and uncertainty about how much time passes while on or off the island, seems both senarios are possible.

  323. nicunurse says:

    Smokey…is that what Goodwin was doing (Ben has me mixing chemicals…)…is smokey some type of toxic gas (but not too toxic)?

    I agree that the Widmore tape was a bit contrived…how did Ben “tape over the red sox” if the tape was sent to him…or did he watch it on a TV and then go back and tape it? And WHY would the nicely dressed Widmore go beat someone up himself…and THEN look at the camera. I think Ben got John AGAIN!! (gullible John)

    Harper said to Juliette…”Ben wants you to do it…” not, “I am a ghost, I can’t kill…” She is alive somewhere.

    I LOVE the idea that Charlie is on the boat but I think it will be Michael (boring…).

    I am worried about Claire…not much of a story line left for her…”I want to talk to Miles…” seemed like just an attempt to get her some air time…without Charlie, who cares about Claire?

    Has to be Sun and Jin as the final six…based on next week’s previews..but who the heck is jumping off the freighter and what is in their front pack?

    BTW WHERE are the children? What was that all about, Juliette agreeing that they have to abide by the list.

    I am also worried about Juliette..what was with her “you don’t want to see my file” and why does she meet weekly with a therapist? Is she mental? We never heard about her parents but know that she had a very close bond to her sister…

    Did Kate see Jack kiss Juliette?

    BTW, remember Juliette flashed that warning to Jack during his imprisonment…she was going against Ben way back then..(then Jack had to open his big mouth…)

    Hey and so what is Laura* has a crush on Desmond..he is such a nice guy (with a great accent)…

  324. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193591"]OK, I never really liked Juliet but the battle lines have now been drawn. Hitting Kate in the head – THAT was uncalled for. Jack must be on some kind of meds to go for a wacko like that. Sure, Kate blew up her dad but she never hit anyone over the head. LISTEN UP JATERS!! There is still hope if we stick together.[/quote]
    When did Juliet hit Kate in the head? Charlotte did…not Juliet.

  325. Lostie says:

    It is clear that someone (being) can manifest itself in human form i.e. (Jack’s Dad, Kate’s horse, Yemi, Shannon (when Boone was tied up) and now Harper. Ben or Jacob are dealing with more than we think in terms of the island’s power.
    And on a different note, that tape was staged – just look at the way Widemore looked right into the camera. Widemore is working with Ben.
    Juliet took off on Jack and Kate was once again left with Jack. Ah, back to the way things are supposed to be.

  326. Jater says:

    Ok I admit it – I was just trying to launch a false revolution against Juliet. But you caught me people. What do you say we all sit down, have a drink and discuss the many reasons that Juliet has to go and Jack and Kate need to get together. Sound good?
    Remember people!! Juliet is an OTHER!!!
    Losties – Trust Others – Do Not Trust.

  327. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193608"][quote comment="193598"]Help me remember back, who died and how. If my theory is correct, when somebody dies due to the island (smokey, electrical fence, etc…) they aren’t really dead (Echo, Patchy, others(?) but if they are killed by people on the island then they are really dead. I really believe there’s something here. I also think Echo is the man on the boat. Great theory DocJoc!![/quote]

    Desmond kills Patchy. Are you trying to count the sonic fence as a mysterious island “mechanism?”[/quote]

    RGS, didn’t Patchy die because he used a grenade to blow up the underwater hatch?

  328. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193590"][quote comment="193425"]They couldn’t release the gas. They absolutely need Ben alive. Miles implied as much when he brokered the deal with Ben.

    And there is no “force” waiting on the ship to attack the island. There was a team of five specialists sent for a specific purpose. Faraday is the time/space guy, Miles is there to commune with Jacob(?), Charlotte is there for the Temple, the pilot has the 815 connection (something more on the way), and of course Naomi was there to protect them.

    Ben is the target, Aaron is the key.

    And, this is a major stretch, so someone shoot it down but, could it be Ekko on the ship? The African port makes me wonder, as does Locke’s reaction. It is far more spectacular than Michael (who really seems most likely).[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This is the most believable scenario I have seen! Well thought out DocJoc!! I think you nailed it![/quote]

    I like the idea of it being Ekko on the ship but why? I think Ekko only met Ben that one time when he apologized for killing his 3 of Ben’s people. I beleive Ben’s man on the boat is Sayid. We already know that he is Ben’s man in the future. And I think he has already started down that path. There could also be another on the boat. One working for Ben and one against

  329. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="193613"]Seems obvious that Michael is Ben’s “man”. Ben must have communicated with Michael after he left the pier and before he reached the frieghter. Is it possible that Michael and Walt went straight from the island to the frieghter? Or did they make it to civilization first, then only Michael went to the frieghter? With the time displacement coming to and from the island, and uncertainty about how much time passes while on or off the island, seems both senarios are possible.[/quote]

    Yes, I also can’t help but remember how Ben told Michael that if he stayed EXACTLY to those coordinates, he’d be fine. Perhaps the same coordinates as the helicopter had to stay! I think maybe Ben sent Michael straight for the ship.

  330. Trixanna says:

    I am not sure how it could be Sayid on the boat. If it was him, why would he have been surprised that they left at dusk and got there in the daylight? Wouldn’t he have known that would happen if he had been there before? I do agree with some that it really can’t be Michael because it is too obvious.

    Also, Ben walked out of Locke’s house last night but we didn’t see Locke again. Are we sure he is okay? Maybe he is having a grendade dinner now too. I used to love Locke but not any longer!

    Hammer, do you want to be a guest speaker at our LAA meeting?? LOL!

  331. docjock says:

    Memory fails me…

    Didn’t Ekko and Ben have a private conversation while Ben was a prisoner in the hatch? Isn’t this what spurs Ekko to take over punching in the numbers once Locke loses faith?

    Still think it’s Michael on the ship (but holding out hope for Ekko)

    We can accurately presuppose that whomever he is personally, he is the captain of the ship and is African in decent.

    Walt (he sure grows fast), Michael, Ekko..?

  332. Lisa says:

    [quote comment="193598"]Help me remember back, who died and how. If my theory is correct, when somebody dies due to the island (smokey, electrical fence, etc…) they aren’t really dead (Echo, Patchy, others(?) but if they are killed by people on the island then they are really dead. I really believe there’s something here. I also think Echo is the man on the boat. Great theory DocJoc!![/quote]

    Oh if Ekko were on the ship I’d be thrilled. I found his storyline to be very interesting and I also loved his view on things in general.

    I like you theory re: how someone dies (or doesn’t). I can see that.

    I am still trying to figure out why those five specialists were chosen. Does anyone have ideas?

  333. eve101 says:

    i dont know if anyones said this but, there’s 3 things i want to talk about 1 is ben, i think sector 7 is right about him and juliet. the second thing is the oceanic 6,i dont think they counted aaron so there has to be 2 left i think sun and jin made it with there baby. the last thing is what i want to know, how did ben become the others leader? Not many trust him now, and they may throw him over. 1 last thing i want to know where’s jacob?

  334. Ecko4Eva says:

    This is my first post and love this site…2 things..

    1. We never met the man that stole Jack’s wife…Why cant it be Ben? We know the has come to and from the island. We did meet the one dude but Jack asked if it was him by the car. Sarah replied “what does it matter” so we do not know who it is even though Jack really wants to meet him. If Juliet looks like Jack’s wife and everyone keeps referring to Juliet as referring to “her”? What if Ben stole Sarah from Jack?
    2. This is my long running theory about what is really going on here. If you have read “And then there were none” by Agatha Christie this is similar. I believe that everyone on that island was put there by Ben/Jacob/or maybe someone even more higher up then we know yet. I think every single person had their lives manipulated in order to be on that plane for one reason or another. I believe that person to be Ben. This episode helps validate this twice. When Ben finds out from Juliet that Jack was a surgeon he is not surpised at all, nothing. He knew Jack was on that plane and I think manipulated his life to get him there. Whoa, kinda ties into my first point…wow head spining…Locke might be on the island so he can walk..and so on and so forth. Dont want to get into all of them..Second the way Ben sent Goodwin immediately, like he had so muc time to think that over. I think Ben got that plane to crash, he sabatoged it to crash on the island and because everyone has a purpose on that island.

    Ok you either really liked that or thing I am crazy I will listen to all comments…

  335. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="193630"]This is my first post and love this site…2 things..

    1. We never met the man that stole Jack’s wife…Why cant it be Ben? We know the has come to and from the island. We did meet the one dude but Jack asked if it was him by the car. Sarah replied “what does it matter” so we do not know who it is even though Jack really wants to meet him. If Juliet looks like Jack’s wife and everyone keeps referring to Juliet as referring to “her”? What if Ben stole Sarah from Jack?
    2. This is my long running theory about what is really going on here. If you have read “And then there were none” by Agatha Christie this is similar. I believe that everyone on that island was put there by Ben/Jacob/or maybe someone even more higher up then we know yet. I think every single person had their lives manipulated in order to be on that plane for one reason or another. I believe that person to be Ben. This episode helps validate this twice. When Ben finds out from Juliet that Jack was a surgeon he is not surpised at all, nothing. He knew Jack was on that plane and I think manipulated his life to get him there. Whoa, kinda ties into my first point…wow head spining…Locke might be on the island so he can walk..and so on and so forth. Dont want to get into all of them..Second the way Ben sent Goodwin immediately, like he had so muc time to think that over. I think Ben got that plane to crash, he sabatoged it to crash on the island and because everyone has a purpose on that island.

    Ok you either really liked that or thing I am crazy I will listen to all comments…[/quote]
    I don’t think Ben made the plane crash — I think he knew it was going to happen.

  336. AnneK says:

    When Locke comes in with the “rabbit” Ben is shown reading Philip K. Dick’s VALIS (an acronym for Vast Active Living Intelligence System). look it up:grin:

  337. nicunurse says:

    OH and one more thing about Ben telling John why all the people would want to come on the island…what a way to play to John…(well, you’ve been miraculously saved so everyone would want to be like you…). Ben gased all those Dharma people before..because Richard told him to..but there had to be more to it than that…Ben wouldn’t just gas everyone he knew because one guy said to…there has to be a whole lot going on beyond that…and for Ben to be all noble…”they would come and ruin our island…” I don’t think so…something more is up with that whole thing.

  338. Tasha says:

    Ok. I am going to do something I have NEVER done before. I ALWAYS read through all the comments as best as I can but there were so many after 110 that I started kind of skipping…..

    Anyhow, IF anybody has said this already….then I TOTALLY agree that Ben and Penny’s dad are working together!

  339. katesFriend says:

    i too am leaning towards ben and widmore as pals

    which makes me think, how did the black rock log get to the real world? maybe on one of his trips to the real world, ben took it and sold it

    maybe after widmore bought it in 1996 he used is connects and money to find ben and team up, or maybe ben added something to the log that would tell the buyer to contact him? (ok, that ones kind of a stretch)

  340. katesFriend says:

    ok, as per my last comment, i just realized they said a hanso was selling the book, so scratch ben selling it

    but, when do we think the purge was? when hanso sold the log in 1996, was that before or after the purge?

  341. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="193615"]BTW WHERE are the children? What was that all about, Juliette agreeing that they have to abide by the list.[/quote]

    I think the children are going to play into the story again, otherwise the writers would not have had Juliet mention them.

    I would love to find out that Charlie (or Mr. Eko) is on the freighter. Like I said a couple of weeks ago, Charlie proved by swimming down TO the hatch that he had a good lung capacity! He COULD have managed to swing through that porthole to the surface! (But an interesting note is that on one of the early podcasts, there was a clip of Charlie screaming for help [because he saw people in the water - first episode maybe?] and he actually said the words, “I can’t swim!”)

    : ) P

  342. donna says:

    How about the man on the boat being Jack’s father????? They never did find his body and Jack and Claire have to find out about being siblings soon. This sets up something happening to Claire and Kate ending up with Aaron.

  343. docjock says:

    Just to be Official –

    SAFE HAVEN THEORY-

    If the Valenzetti numbers reflect the impending doom of humanity on Earth, it might be that the island (Shambhala) is the only safe refuge from the disaster.

    Thus, Widmore and everyone’s else’s extreme interest and willingness to kill.

    The biggest desire of the Others has been to be able to reproduce -> to repopulate the Earth from this safe haven once the planet has been wiped clean.

  344. Miraks says:

    I don’t believe that Charlotte and Danny Boy were trying to stop some gas from killing all the people like they claimed.
    1- When the Purge occured, there were gas canisters thrown into the compound, not some big huge gas release. The Others then came in and checked if everyone was dead.
    2- It would not make sense for Ben to gas the whole island and kill everyone (including himself).
    3- The Freighter Tots brought gas masks with them, leading me to believe that they planned on gassing the island themselves, without regard to the people on the island (and they did not know 815 survivors were there, so they only planned on killing the Others).

  345. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="193651"]I don’t believe that Charlotte and Danny Boy were trying to stop some gas from killing all the people like they claimed.
    1- When the Purge occured, there were gas canisters thrown into the compound, not some big huge gas release. The Others then came in and checked if everyone was dead.
    2- It would not make sense for Ben to gas the whole island and kill everyone (including himself).
    3- The Freighter Tots brought gas masks with them, leading me to believe that they planned on gassing the island themselves, without regard to the people on the island (and they did not know 815 survivors were there, so they only planned on killing the Others).[/quote]

    Well except that Ben could have set up the Tempest long ago, planning to pass out masks to those he wasn’t planning on killing (as he did with the first purge). And the Tots might have brought masks IN CASE Ben released the gas or set up a booby trap that would make the gas release if someone broke into the Tempest.

    Not saying you are wrong – I have no idea! Just putting alternate ideas out there.

    : ) P

  346. Miraks says:

    Don’t think Ben and Windmore are working together. I see it as Widmore trying to find the island and Ben trying to prevent him from doing so. If anything, Widmore has a connection to Hanso and the organization that was running the island before the purge.
    It seems that there is a way to and from the island via a certain bearing- the one the helicopters came in on, probably the submarine, the hot air baloon, Desmond… although there is the possibility of some “side effects”. I would guess that the original Hanso, the one who was on the Black Rock, somehow managed to escape the island (on a raft perhaps?) after the ship was lost there during a storm. He made it back to civilization with his diary, but was desmissed as a crazy guy if he rambled on about a misterious island. That was until some other Hanso (maybe a grandson) took it upon himself to investigate and found the island- starting all the research that was being done. Maybe with the help and funding of Mr. Widmore? Until Ben purged the island.
    As far as, how did they know Ben was behind the purge. We know they had a picture of Ben off the island, so it would not be that hard to put two and two together- i.e. lost communication, something went wrong, oh,there is the Ben guy, maybe we should ask him, what? he doesn’t want to be asked/ found, maybe he is the one responsible since someone had to disable the fence in order for the “natives” to kill our researchers…

  347. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193619"][quote comment="193608"][quote comment="193598"]Help me remember back, who died and how. If my theory is correct, when somebody dies due to the island (smokey, electrical fence, etc…) they aren’t really dead (Echo, Patchy, others(?) but if they are killed by people on the island then they are really dead. I really believe there’s something here. I also think Echo is the man on the boat. Great theory DocJoc!![/quote]

    Desmond kills Patchy. Are you trying to count the sonic fence as a mysterious island “mechanism?”[/quote]

    RGS, didn’t Patchy die because he used a grenade to blow up the underwater hatch?[/quote]

    Yes, but prior to that Desmond had supposedly killed him, so I was trying to see if that could be reconciled, but I guess he wasnt “really” dead then, but I thought that was the point of the exercise.

  348. Miraks says:

    By the way, from what I remember from college, The Tempest (the play by Shakespeare) deals with a shipwreck on a misterious island, refers to a storm that got the ship there, and there are some spirits that protect the island- one of them taking on the form of a Harpie. Not sure how this fits in, but just thought I’d throw it out there.

  349. Bobbi says:

    RGS, I was not negating you at all, I am actually intrigued. I can’t remember this…how did Des kill him?

  350. DocH says:

    Help (I’m not afraid to ask). How did we connect the freighter to an “African Port”?

    Follow-up thought: Looking at the scr cap of Daniel’s handwritten map, the coords are 8N 33E, with directions. Checking my mapping software, those coords are far West Ethopia and Southern Sudan. The thing is – the river on dan’s map that runs thru our island – it matches (bends/turns) the real river in Africa at that Lat/Long.

  351. RGS says:

    Lost of good stuff out there since I left work.

    Amarie 314 that would seem to suggest Ben is a very powerful person. If he can do that, why not just start taking over everyone’s minds?

    Docjoc 322—I thought Alpert stated that the fertility issue was not something they cared too much about, something along those lines.

    Lostie 326 et al Interesting theory but I’m not sure the tape was staged. If they didn’t show Widmore’s picture directly, folks would probably say it wasn’t him. I think they had him look up there for a plausible reason as to why the tape was cut short

    Lost4ever 329…I think we can say there are quite a few working against Ben on that boat.

    Trix 331 Lol

    Doc 332 when u typed that it made me think Abbaddon

    335&336 I think that will be one of those mysteries folks will debate (whether he knew or didn’t) even after the show is over.

    Miraks Love your 347 post, but I disagree with your 345.

  352. Tasha says:

    WEll I was thinking that Harper(that her name?) said Ben was exactly where he wants to be. If she has the power to float around or whatever it is she does, couldn’t she have planted the tape? Even if she didn’t, Ben has a way of knowing things are going to happen or having backup plans. It seems like this tape was a backup plan. I mean who the heck filmed it and why? Looks like it was staged to me. BUT….I might be way off.

    I never thought about Jack’s dad. I have always had a theory he is in on all this. MAYBE HE IS the guy on the boat. I don’t know…..

  353. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193661"]
    I can’t remember this… how did Des kill him?
    [/quote]
    Desmond did not kill Mikhail.
    Mikhail just shot Bonnie & Greta in the Looking Glass Station, on Bens’ orders.
    Des came out and shot Mikhail with a spear gun (appearing to die).
    Des freed Charlie. Things began to happen in the radio room. Mikhail slipped away in the confusion. Later we see Mikhail w/ a grenade outside Charlies’ sealed room. He pulls the pin and smiles. The shock of the grenade opens the window to the sea and Charlie drowns. Again, we do not see Mikhail actually die. He could not have dropped the grenade as it exploded exactly where he was holding it, BUT, we saw no blood in the water or even a bloody stump. Patchie may very well be alive.

  354. LLOL says:

    [quote comment="193538"][quote comment="193536"]“…Recalling Widmore/Desmond in the bathroom in “The Constant”: Seems to me Widmore knew Desmond was time traveling. He gave him Penny’s information because he needed Desmond to be calling Penny in the future. He left the water running (with the drain stopped) as he walked out on purpose, but I don’t know the reason….”

    Much of the time traveling seems to occur when water is nearby, like rain during the basic training of Desmond.
    In one case he wakes up near what might be a water pipe in a stairwell.[/quote]

    that’s interesting. kind of like what someone said on “the constant” thread about how there always seems to be a storm when people come and go from the island. maybe widmore knew that because that bothered me that he didn’t turn the water off. but maybe that’s just the environmentalist in me, hehe. but what made desmond go back to ’96 because i don’t think there was water involved with that…[/quote]

    It was raining throughout most of that army scene.

  355. docjock says:

    As Bela would say, “pull the string.”

    Look up:

    “Beasts, Gods, and Men” / “Agartha”
    “The Living Buddha” / “Tulku”
    “Aaron Ben Jacob”

    Interesting reads…

  356. DocH says:

    Open question for any.
    The Dharma stations we know, or think we know: Swan, Arrow, Staff, Pearl, Flame, Hydra, Looking Glass, Orchid, and now Tempest.

    They called the Swan “3 of 6″ in the orientation video. Yet Tempest makes #9 total ‘places of interest’, not counting the Barracks.

    Is the Tempest one of the original Dharma six?, or does it fall into anOther category?

  357. DocH says:

    More Questions – for a few days we heard the ship was 80 nautical miles offshore then, recently we have heard and seen 40 nautical miles offshore.

    What is happening? Is the window withdrawing back toward the island now that the EM generator is out of commission?

    If this is what is going on, they will be able to drop anchor on the Looking Glass Station in a few days.

  358. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193673"]Open question for any.
    The Dharma stations we know, or think we know: Swan, Arrow, Staff, Pearl, Flame, Hydra, Looking Glass, Orchid, and now Tempest.

    They called the Swan “3 of 6″ in the orientation video. Yet Tempest makes #9 total ‘places of interest’, not counting the Barracks.

    Is the Tempest one of the original Dharma six?, or does it fall into anOther category?[/quote]
    They referred to the Tempest as a power station, so I don’t think it was used for tests/experiments/research like the other stations were, so I’d say it’s not one of the 6.

  359. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193598"]Help me remember back, who died and how. If my theory is correct, when somebody dies due to the island (smokey, electrical fence, etc…) they aren’t really dead (Echo, Patchy, others(?) but if they are killed by people on the island then they are really dead. I really believe there’s something here. I also think Echo is the man on the boat. Great theory DocJoc!![/quote]
    This is an interesting idea, but there are no characters who have come back from the dead. D&C have said that once a character dies it stays dead.

    Patchy didn’t die at the fence, he was just badly injured. Remember the one scene where he said to Ben something like “fortunately for me it was set to a lethal level”.

    Also, in a podcast last summer D&C said Mikhail did die due to the hand grenade.

    So, Eko and Mikhail both died and are both still dead and neither one is Ben’s man on the boat.

  360. RAY says:

    My favorite scene was when Juliette arrives at Ben’s for the dinner party and Ben runs like a girl to get the ham out of the oven. Hilarious. “It’s gonna dry out….”. Such a geek.

  361. Lostie says:

    [quote comment="193093"]did anyone else find it funny when locke opened the safe and found a tape labled Red Sox? following a dramatic pause, ben says “i taped over it”. i’m just thinking of all the discussions of how it was mentioned earlier that Boston had won the World Series. were they messing with our heads?[/quote]

    I think the fact it has “red sox” written on the side may just mean that the footage was taped after Ben showed Jack the world series when he was holding Jack/Kate/Sawyer.

  362. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193589"]
    That’s why it almost seems like he is traveling back from 2004 – to get the phone number from Penny. Not traveling up to 2004.
    So he travels back to 1996 to get the info and then when he get it he travels back to 2004.

    Also, Daniel tells Desmond to go and see him at Oxford when it happens again. Which means when he time travels again. Meaning he isn’t time traveling at that point in time in 2004.[/quote]

    Some of these things had been said prior to your post, but I’ll repeat them and try to put the larger picture together.

    At all times that we see the 2004 Desmond prior to his Christmas Eve phone call with Penny, that Desmond doesn’t know where he is, doesn’t recognize Sayid, and thinks it’s 1996. From time to time Desmond’s 1996 body passes out – these are the times that his 1996 consciousness leaves the 1996 body and goes to the 2004 body. So, it is his 1996 consciousness that travels back and forth between 1996 and 2004.

    While in 2004, the 1996 consciousness gets some information (the settings on Daniel’s machine, the date in 2004), and when the 1996 consciousness returns to the 1996 body, Desmond can share the info he obtained from the future.

    When Daniel told Desmond to go to Oxford, Daniel was talking to Desmond’s 1996 consciousness (which at that time was in the 2004 body). Daniel knew that the 1996 consciousness would return to the 1996 body and could take that info with it.

  363. Lostie says:

    After reading several of the posts I am starting to wonder it is WALT as Ben’s spy on the boat. It just seems like Locke has a real connection to Walt compared to any other survivor. Also, after being shot by Ben, it was Walt that told Locke to get up again and that was pretty inspiring for him. If you think about it, Locke even told the group about having seen Walt. If Ben told Locke, “you’re going to need to sit down for this” and then told him it was WALT on the boat- I would think that would be the only person that would make Locke just free Ben the way he did. It would make him feel like he wasn’t nuts after all and truly does have some sort of connection to the island and be vindicated to some extent.
    I was curious if anyone thought that Walt was doing the time travel thing to explain how Shannon and Locke saw him.

  364. Angel says:

    [quote comment="193446"][quote comment="193422"]how come juliet didn’t shoot charlotte or daniel? she had no problem killing picket last season.

    deangoodes (158): nobody knows for sure if harper is dead or alive, they are just assuming she’s dead bcuz of the whispers. i don’t think you have to be dead to show up when the whispers happen.

    ben doesn’t shoot or stab people in the back, he does it in front of them…[/quote]

    lost chicka. Juliet shot pickett because she thought Ben would let her off the island. When Charlotte said something about trusting Ben i think she changed her mine on killing them. We saw in her flashback how big of a psycho stalker Ben is and she doesn;t trust him. Part 2- I think Harper was the person that Widmore had captured. Maybe she is dead.
    Part 3- Ben shot Locke in the back[/quote]

    Even if he didn’t shoot him in the back…it isnt that much metter to shoot someone while they are looking at you

  365. Lins says:

    I don’t think Ben was telling the truth when he told Locke about Widmore, I think he told him what he did because he knew Locke is weak and so ready to protect the island at all costs that he would believe whatever Ben said if it meant the island would remain safe. I also don’t think that the Others have deserted Ben, it’s all part of a plan…besides when has Ben ever really told the truth?

    I think the freighter folks are just following orders…like Sawyer called Locke’s group sheep. I think Dan and Charlotte were trying to turn off the gas so that it couldn’t be used against them. I think Ben knew that and that’s why he sent Harper. Also, I’m not really sure if it was really Ben that sent her…maybe Jacob did…knowing that Juliette would follow an order from Ben if it came from Harper. I thought she was dead too, but then she interacted with Jack and that was a little weird…

    On a different note – now that we have a CS Lewis on the island, I’m wondering if anyone has read the CS Lewis book Prince Caspian, part of the Narnia series? Interesting parallels…a group of people mysteriously pulled out of another time to help resuce an “island” from an evil dictator. There’s even a reference to a group of people called “Others”, I had to laugh when I read that one.

  366. Omar Kamel says:

    Hmm. Here it goes.

    1. I also think this episode was relatively filler material. Not as bad, obviously as the infamous how-did-Jack-get-his-tattooes episode, but not that great an episode overall. I had two main problems with the episode:

    2. Despite all the fuss over the Tempest, nothing eventually happened there. They may or may not have ‘disarmed’ Ben’s weapon as they claim. Bah. An almost but not-quite event equals a non-event for me.

    3. The so-called revelation about the frighter folk working for Widmore was telegraphed as far as I’m concerned, and I mentioned in a previous post that this would be the case, so for me at least the Abbadon/Widmore connection was nothing new.

    4. Again, the whole ‘Ben’ is obsessed with Juliette angle played far too slowly, it was made clear too early in the episode and made the whole Goodwin/Ben backstory predictable.

    5. Jokes. A few too many, as some other posters have noted. The writing was a bit off this episode. I haven’t checked the credits to see what’s different, but something certainly was.

    6. I will really, REALLy, be bummed out if Michael turns out to be Ben’s Man on the Boat. With all due respect to people who favor this notion, I just think it would be quite lame. The closest I’ve read here to an interesting theory is the one hypothesizing that Ben is himself his ‘man’ on the ship – although I find that explanation very unlikely.

    7. Claire’s scene with Locke regarding Miles. Okay – so that’s been set up, I guess we’ll have to wait for some sort of payoff later on. Maybe Claire will find a way to get to Miles – she obviously wants to ask him about herself and Aaron and whether or not she should be trying to get off the Island.

    8. Despite the comedic value of the last scene with Ben walking around the barracks unattended – it just seemed like a MAJOR leap for me. Locke might be desperate for information, but it occurs to me that he’s got a few options to exhaust before he’d surrender that much liberty to Ben, especially knowing firsthand how dangerous Ben can be. As for options, well, he could’ve went on a walkabout so to speak, look for Walt or Jacob’s Cabin and try to put together his ‘plan’ that way. However, surrendering his grip no Ben just to find out the there’s some rich guy called Widmore behind the frighter…well, it all sounds a bit iffy to me. UNLESS – the identity of Ben’s man on the boat somehow leads Locke to the conclusion that Ben is somehow ‘good’ and ‘trustworthy’. But that makes no sense whatsoever. I just don’t buy it.

    9. Harper & the Whispers. Yeah. That was way overplayed. Which leads me to one of two conclusions – yes – a) she’s a manifestation of the monster, but in that case, then Ben DOES communicate with the monster. Unsatisfactory explanation at this point. Or b) The whispers were there explicitly to pull our collective legs. Unfortunately, based on the quality of the whole episode, I sadly believe this to be the case.

    Well, I guess 9 bullet points is plenty :)

  367. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="193694"]At all times that we see the 2004 Desmond prior to his Christmas Eve phone call with Penny, that Desmond doesn’t know where he is, doesn’t recognize Sayid, and thinks it’s 1996.

    From time to time Desmond’s 1996 body passes out – these are the times that his 1996 consciousness leaves the 1996 body and goes to the 2004 body. So, it is his 1996 consciousness that travels back and forth between 1996 and 2004.

    While in 2004, the 1996 consciousness gets some information (the settings on Daniel’s machine, the date in 2004), and when the 1996 consciousness returns to the 1996 body, Desmond can share the info he obtained from the future.

    When Daniel told Desmond to go to Oxford, Daniel was talking to Desmond’s 1996 consciousness (which at that time was in the 2004 body). Daniel knew that the 1996 consciousness would return to the 1996 body and could take that info with it.[/quote]

    Thanks, Toeknee. Best, most concise, and easily understood explanation yet. Now my head isn’t spinning (so much). LOL

    : ) P

  368. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193705"]Hmm. Here it goes.

    1. I also think this episode was relatively filler material. Not as bad, obviously as the infamous how-did-Jack-get-his-tattooes episode, but not that great an episode overall. I had two main problems with the episode:

    2. Despite all the fuss over the Tempest, nothing eventually happened there. They may or may not have ‘disarmed’ Ben’s weapon as they claim. Bah. An almost but not-quite event equals a non-event for me.

    3. The so-called revelation about the frighter folk working for Widmore was telegraphed as far as I’m concerned, and I mentioned in a previous post that this would be the case, so for me at least the Abbadon/Widmore connection was nothing new.

    4. Again, the whole ‘Ben’ is obsessed with Juliette angle played far too slowly, it was made clear too early in the episode and made the whole Goodwin/Ben backstory predictable.

    5. Jokes. A few too many, as some other posters have noted. The writing was a bit off this episode. I haven’t checked the credits to see what’s different, but something certainly was.

    6. I will really, REALLy, be bummed out if Michael turns out to be Ben’s Man on the Boat. With all due respect to people who favor this notion, I just think it would be quite lame. The closest I’ve read here to an interesting theory is the one hypothesizing that Ben is himself his ‘man’ on the ship – although I find that explanation very unlikely.

    7. Claire’s scene with Locke regarding Miles. Okay – so that’s been set up, I guess we’ll have to wait for some sort of payoff later on. Maybe Claire will find a way to get to Miles – she obviously wants to ask him about herself and Aaron and whether or not she should be trying to get off the Island.

    8. Despite the comedic value of the last scene with Ben walking around the barracks unattended – it just seemed like a MAJOR leap for me. Locke might be desperate for information, but it occurs to me that he’s got a few options to exhaust before he’d surrender that much liberty to Ben, especially knowing firsthand how dangerous Ben can be. As for options, well, he could’ve went on a walkabout so to speak, look for Walt or Jacob’s Cabin and try to put together his ‘plan’ that way. However, surrendering his grip no Ben just to find out the there’s some rich guy called Widmore behind the frighter…well, it all sounds a bit iffy to me. UNLESS – the identity of Ben’s man on the boat somehow leads Locke to the conclusion that Ben is somehow ‘good’ and ‘trustworthy’. But that makes no sense whatsoever. I just don’t buy it.

    9. Harper & the Whispers. Yeah. That was way overplayed. Which leads me to one of two conclusions – yes – a) she’s a manifestation of the monster, but in that case, then Ben DOES communicate with the monster. Unsatisfactory explanation at this point. Or b) The whispers were there explicitly to pull our collective legs. Unfortunately, based on the quality of the whole episode, I sadly believe this to be the case.

    Well, I guess 9 bullet points is plenty :)[/quote]

    PLEASE!!! Dont make me read that much again about so many negative things about the show, without 1 original thought. You said you had 2 main problems with the show but yet you listed 8.

    I do agree with you about it being Michael on the boat. It is too obvious, My bet is Sayid and I also like the post about Ekko. He was my favorite character.

  369. Omar Kamel says:

    Lost4Ever – sorry, but that’s an idiotic message. First of all, if you suffered so greatly reading my post, then why did you then QUOTE the whole of it? To make others have to read it or scroll past it TWICE?

    As for original thoughts – well, jeez. I guess I’ll have to see what pearls of wisdom you come up or have come up with.

    Get a life.

    Wait a minute. This is NOT me being constructive or helpful. Apologies to everybody else reading this, but I find lost4ever’s reply quite rude.

  370. Omar Kamel says:

    Also I didn’t list 8. My 2 ‘problems’ are the ones immediately following that statement. The others were general notes about the episode.

  371. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="193765"]Lost4Ever – sorry, but that’s an idiotic message. First of all, if you suffered so greatly reading my post, then why did you then QUOTE the whole of it? To make others have to read it or scroll past it TWICE?

    As for original thoughts – well, jeez. I guess I’ll have to see what pearls of wisdom you come up or have come up with.

    Get a life.

    Wait a minute. This is NOT me being constructive or helpful. Apologies to everybody else reading this, but I find lost4ever’s reply quite rude.[/quote]
    \
    I do apologize for being rude. That was not my intention. I do however think that someone telling me to get a life is VERY rude. I now know just to skip over any thing that you post here. It was very uninteresting.

  372. Toeknee says:

    No disrespect to lost4ever intended, and I’m sure Omar Kamel dosn’t need my defense, but I thought his comment (#367) was interesting. There were some original thoughts, and yes, some repetition of ideas already expressed, but he put his spin on those ideas. And really, the same could be said about 90% of the comments on this blog (my own comments included).

    Regarding Omar’s comments, I didn’t think there were too many jokes in this episode – an episode like this needed those jokes, I think. As far as the credits go, one of the writers of this episode was Christina Kim, and I’ve noticed I tend to not enjoy her episodes as much.

  373. Iowakid says:

    1st Post Be Nice To Me-Post 302 could the buttons be brille?

  374. Tim says:

    So then, you consciousness can be unstuck in time a decade before you are exposed to whatever is causing the problem?
    How does that happen? Your brain hasn’t been exposed to anything yet.
    Oh no, I think the writers have to make up something – quick!!!

  375. MP Clark says:

    Last 2 of Oceanic 6 (Sorry if somebody already posted…was reading and reading and started falling asleep)…Sun & baby?

  376. Bobola says:

    Omar;
    I TOO would be unhappy to see Michael as Ben’s man on the SHIP (it’s not a bloody Boat!).
    I’d Like to see Michael used as chum instead of chummy to Ben.

    OK, Lost Chicka—please help me;
    I may have missed that episode…or have a bad memory; Who did Juliette “murder” before?
    Murder is not justifiable….so did she just kill someone or…? I did miss a feww scenes along the way.
    I like how she showed great restraint when she was hovering over Daniel at the Gas controls. I think THAT shows she is not ruthless.
    Loved that station by the way…Who built all this stuff? Musta had deep pockets!

  377. Scott says:

    [quote comment="193755"]
    PLEASE!!! Dont make me read that much again about so many negative things about the show, without 1 original thought. You said you had 2 main problems with the show but yet you listed 8.

    I do agree with you about it being Michael on the boat. It is too obvious, My bet is Sayid and I also like the post about Ekko. He was my favorite character.[/quote]
    Lost4ever, you’re like GW Bush if all you want to hear is positives and not some well-written thoughts about the episode. Omar’s posts are consistently reasonable and interesting. Keep going Omar.

    As for Ecko, he’s dead and the dead supposedly stay dead.

  378. vavila says:

    hello fellow addicts

    1) frighters: not sure about them. We know that their prime agenda is not to save losties, so what their main agenda is? They seem to have several: 1)Capture Ben, 2)interfere with gas stuff, 3) conduct expereiments on the island (card memory tests, rocket time test) to confirm island’s qualities and maybe discover new ones and 4)possibly something else?
    Then each of them may have personal agendas: Miles willing to switch sides/sabotage capture Ben mission. I think that they know some things about island that losties do not, but they don’t want to tell losties what they know and what they are there for, potentially to protect them (similar to what julliet told jack – that if she told him things that would endanger him) and aid their reintegration if they are saved (if they know too much about island’s qualities there may be a need to kill them or silence them otherwise). At the same time i belive that frighters do not know everything, they are being used, and they may switch sides (Dan opens up much more than Charlotte, Frank is open as well).
    2) i want to bring Ben’s 124 comment question up: if Ben gassed Dharma, who has been supplying food to the island? I don’t think it was Widmore, this means that there is a powerful and rich person (group) behind Ben off the island who finances him for whatever reason. This other person (maybe with help from Ben’s person on the boat) also helped to sabotage Widmore’s boat’s communication system.
    3) I think that Dharam initiative must of had people stationed/involved and aware of the initiative off-the-island. I do not think there was an off-the-island purge, which means that people who are knowledgeble about the island and its properties may be alive. If this is the case, then what relationship may exist between Dharma off-the-island personnel, Widmore and Ben? Widmore must be aware of Dharma – this is how he knows about island’s properties, about the importance of Ben, and also why he hired Charlotte who is also aware of Dharma (bear collar). If Widmore is aware of Dharma and Dharma people off-the-island have survided the purge, then why he cannot find out from them how to get to the island, etc? What stops Widmore from taking over the island? He seems to know where it is…
    If Dharma people who were stationed off-the-island are still alive, then what relationship they may have with Ben? Could they still be dropping food? What would make them do that?

    I’m still convinced that Ben is not the sole man behind everything, unless he somehow orchestrated off-the-island purge as well? But even then, who drops food?

    Also if Widmore is the main threat to the island then why Ben with his connections and killing/manipulating expereince cannot get him killed? that would get this problem solved

    i need to think much more about ‘course correction’, which i belive is key to everything…

  379. intolost says:

    Miraks wrote:

    Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?

    Miraks, yeah that was a weird scene. In the jungle it seemed Charlotte was trying to convince Farraday to do the gassing. It seemed to me they were both madly trying to turn on the gas. They had the masks on. It seemed when Juliet showed up, they were trying to get the gas on faster before she could stop them. It seemed to malfunction and stop for whatever reason. They seemed very, very surprised and relieved that it stopped. Not sure what to think.

  380. JamieGirl says:

    I think Ben’s man on the boat is Locke – in the past or in the future.

  381. Michael says:

    deangoodes
    Comment 158, posted 1 day ago – Quote and reply
    Once again I loved last night’s episode. I do have a couple of questions. Had we seen Harper before, and if she’s dead how and when did she die?
    And do we know that Widmore sent Desmond to the island? Did he map out Des’ round the world boat trip? Or is it just a big coincidence that Des came upon the island, the same one the love of his life’s father is trying to find?

    That would be a good cover up story for him to spend a lot of money and time looking for the island, if he didn’t want anyone to know he was looking for it. Windmore sends Desmond on this path , Desmond ends up missing . Penny has a change of heart about Desmond and goes to her dad to look for him. Mean while dad has been researching the island the whole time getting ready to find/ or deployed to the island.

    RGS
    Comment 170, posted 23 hours, 41 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Sawyer’s Evil Twin wrote:
    I believed Ben (silly, I know) when he said that he has no idea how Widmore knows about the island. I think I know, Widmore bought the manifest of the Black Rock and it’s in there. Can anybody be completely sure that Ben was at the auction? I never saw him.
    I haven’t seen any confirmation that Ben was at the auction, I don’t think he was, but I’m also not sure if it is relevant. Widmore won the auction and hence could’ve read the journal like you suggested, and learned or likely confirmed where it is. I don’t think he was just bidding on it by chance.

    There was a phone bidder who was one of the highest bidders. That could have been Ben?

    LLOL
    Comment 178, posted 23 hours, 21 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    I keep wondering who filmed Widmore and gave the tape to Ben. Ben says to Locke “I taped over the game (the Red Sox game).” Does that suggest that Ben videotaped Widmore? If he didn’t, who did? That was very confusing…

    That sound Plausible. If Ben was at the action house or on the phone and lost the bid, maybe he wanted to see who had it and where they live or what not. Just after the action Desmoned is leaving Penny’s house. Penny could have gotten upset called her dad. Dad picks him up and beats the crap out of him. The man the have blind foolded resembles Desmond and his cloughs .

    deangoodes
    Comment 239, posted 20 hours, 36 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Sector 7 wrote: When Ben takes Jules to see Goodwin, she realizes Ben can see the future. He admits he knew Goodiwin was going to die and he wanted it happen, “because you are mine!”…

    I have to disagree. I think been had him killed. Harper implies that something could happen to him if Ben finds out.

  382. Michael says:

    Sorry for any and all grammar mistakes. I’m trying to catch up and reading and righting at a hundred mph.

  383. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193668"] Again, we do not see Mikhail actually die. He could not have dropped the grenade as it exploded exactly where he was holding it, BUT, we saw no blood in the water or even a bloody stump. Patchie may very well be alive.[/quote]
    From my favorite info site: “As heard on the August 2 podcast, Damon Lindelof confirmed at Comic-Con 2007 that Mikhail is deceased. [1] This can further be heard on the September 21st podcast and on the Blu-ray Disc of Lost: The Complete Third Season.”

  384. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193888"]
    From my favorite info site: “As heard on the August 2 podcast, Damon Lindelof confirmed at Comic-Con 2007 that Mikhail is deceased. [1] This can further be heard on the September 21st podcast and on the Blu-ray Disc of Lost: The Complete Third Season.”
    [/quote]
    Oh I have no doubt that they said that about Mikhail. They also said no time-traveling… where are we now?

    After the spear in the chest, we were supposed to see, ergo, believe he was dead. Now that we did NOT see him ‘splode w/ the grenade, are we to assume, de facto, that he is gone?

    The producers have fibbed before. They’ll do it again. Hope to see Mikhail eventually, if only in flashback.

    (LOST Trivia: If Patchy was in charge of all the ships, subs & boats after the Purge… would they have called it ‘Mikhails Navy’?;^)

  385. Michael says:

    The Gas.
    -If Charlotte & Dan went to turn on the gas. That would kill everyone including Ben & Miles. Miles would know this and there for not be “ where he wants to be” because he would die.
    -If they went there to turn the gas off, Why would Ben send Harper to tell Jules to stop them . If she stopped then Ben would have died.
    – So would Smoky, Jacob or the island want to either A- gas the island and have Jules Kill Dan and Charlotte from stopping it. Or B- Not gas the island, have Jules kill Dan from gassing the island. Making Jules believe that Ben is telling her to do this. I that is hard to follow sorry.

    Charles Widmore. What does he want with the Island.
    It appears Widmore knows a lot about the Island or knows people who do, if in fact that is Widmore’s boat & his people.
    He would know that there is a threat on the island.
    Knows where the island is.
    Knows about the gas.
    Knows about Dharma.
    I don’t think he wants to exploit the island but reopen it as it was with Dharma. Look at who he sent in these people are more suited for researching and running as the facility it was. He might have original help fund it as a silent partner. And the Abbadon is hired professional help like mercenaries.

    Widmore sent Desmond to the island?
    That would be a good cover up story for him to spend a lot of money and time looking for the island, if he didn’t want anyone to know he was looking for it. Widmore sends Desmond on this path , Desmond ends up missing . Penny has a change of heart about Desmond and goes to her dad to look for him. Mean while dad has been researching the island the whole time getting ready to find/ or deployed to the island.

    Juliet-
    Does Juliet look anything like Jacks ex-wife Sarah, I can’t remember. If she does, Maybe Ben nose that and that is one of his uses for Juliet. To keep tabs on Jack.

    My little theory.
    This a little theory of mine that I haven’t heard any where else yet. That might be because it’s a stretch. In the first season Clair’s Boy friend, Thomas, Looks a lot like a younger Ben. A lot! Thomas is a painter. I thought Ben painted that picture of the dog? I’m not sure. There are also paintings in the hatch on the walls in the first episodes of season two. Now the paintings on the wall do look like a kid did them but there not to far off from the painting of Thomas’s in his apartment. Similar Behavior- When Ben shows Juliet the body of Goodwin he’s calm, get very upset, then freakishly calm again. When Thomas brakes up with Clair it’s almost in the same matter. Now I know some sort of time travel would have to be explained here, but if Thomas is Ben. Could Juliet remind him of Clair? From there, Aaron would be his son. Aaron gets of the island. That would be a reason why Ben leaves the island. Also could be the reason why Jack does not want to see Aaron. And I think that there is some sort off bridge there to Charlie.

  386. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193891"]
    (LOST Trivia: If Patchy was in charge of all the ships, subs & boats after the Purge… would they have called it ‘Mikhails Navy’?;^)[/quote]
    I like that one…I’ll be using it with my Lost friends.

  387. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="193696"]After reading several of the posts I am starting to wonder it is WALT as Ben’s spy on the boat. It just seems like Locke has a real connection to Walt compared to any other survivor. Also, after being shot by Ben, it was Walt that told Locke to get up again and that was pretty inspiring for him. If you think about it, Locke even told the group about having seen Walt. If Ben told Locke, “you’re going to need to sit down for this” and then told him it was WALT on the boat- I would think that would be the only person that would make Locke just free Ben the way he did. It would make him feel like he wasn’t nuts after all and truly does have some sort of connection to the island and be vindicated to some extent.
    I was curious if anyone thought that Walt was doing the time travel thing to explain how Shannon and Locke saw him.[/quote]
    I agree, in fact I had logged on to post that exact theory. Michael may be on the boat but Walt is Bens “mand on the boat.”

  388. nicunurse says:

    [quote comment="193755"][quote comment="193705"]Hmm. Here it goes.

    7. Claire’s scene with Locke regarding Miles. Okay – so that’s been set up, I guess we’ll have to wait for some sort of payoff later on. Maybe Claire will find a way to get to Miles – she obviously wants to ask him about herself and Aaron and whether or not she should be trying to get off the Island.

    I agree that something is up with Claire and Miles and Aaron…is it because Miles is some sort of psychic? Claire doesn’t have any reason to not get off the island..all she was told was that SHE was supposed to raise Aaron..why would she ask Miles anything (she doesn’t know about his ghostly abilities…) That whole thing, Claire wanting to talk to Miles makes no sense…
    And why does Sun slap Juliette in the preview (I think it is because Juliette knows the baby was conceived off the island, with that other guy, not Jin…and I think Sun finds out that Juliette was lying about the ultrasound dates…)
    Can’t wait until next week!

  389. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193625"]
    Hammer, do you want to be a guest speaker at our LAA meeting?? LOL![/quote]
    Sure…they are exactly where I want to be…or should I say they are exactly WHEN I want to be. ;)

  390. Amarie says:

    i like the idea of walt or micheal being ben’s man on the ship but that would seem a little obvious…and the preview made it seem like it would be more surprising than that…i would only say the person would have to be someone locke knows and trusted…

    also…
    the fact that locke released ben and sayid works for ben in the future…would seem to either confirm that ben is a great manipulator or…maybe the island and him are interconnected not to stay this can’t change

  391. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193891"][/quote]
    Oh I have no doubt that they said that about Mikhail. They also said no time-traveling… where are we now?[/quote]
    Doc, do you know we can find video, audio or a transcript of when Damon said no time travel. I would like to see if he was using “Clinton speak”. Maybe he meant up that point in the story or maybe he meant no travel in the more popular sense, because I think he was responding to someone asking about a time machine.

  392. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="193848"]1st Post Be Nice To Me-Post 302 could the buttons be brille?[/quote]
    Did you mean Braille? If so I don’t know about that but the box had a plaque on it that said “box maker” and I found that interesting. Hurley owned a box company, that later burned down, and Locke worked in collections for that company.

  393. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193852"]So then, you consciousness can be unstuck in time a decade before you are exposed to whatever is causing the problem?
    How does that happen? Your brain hasn’t been exposed to anything yet.
    Oh no, I think the writers have to make up something – quick!!![/quote]

    I understood the situation as the side effect, made Des’s exposed 2004 consciousness jump back to 1996.

  394. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193910"][quote comment="193852"]So then, you consciousness can be unstuck in time a decade before you are exposed to whatever is causing the problem?
    How does that happen? Your brain hasn’t been exposed to anything yet.
    Oh no, I think the writers have to make up something – quick!!![/quote]

    I understood the situation as the side effect, made Des’s exposed 2004 consciousness jump back to 1996.[/quote]
    Man this is confusing sometimes!

    RGS makes sense that the side effect happens in 2004 so you would think that his 2004 mind is doing the traveling. The problem is, his 1996 mind is what is traveling back and forth based on the fact that when his mind returns to 2004(before the constant) he thinks he is still in 1996.

    I DO NOT believe that they are making this up as they go along, but I don’t follow yet.

  395. sector7 says:

    Michael wrote in 382: Sector 7 wrote: When Ben takes Jules to see Goodwin, she realizes Ben can see the future. He admits he knew Goodiwin was going to die and he wanted it happen, “because you are mine!”…

    I have to disagree. I think been had him killed. Harper implies that something could happen to him if Ben finds out.
    I have to disagree. I think been had him killed. Harper implies that something could happen to him if Ben finds out.

    Mike, Anna killed Goodwin. Please watch season 2. Harper new Ben would find a way to kill Goodwin. Ben new if he sent Goodwin to the tail, Goodwin would be killed by Anna. When he was telling Goodwin to go to the tail, Harper looked at Juliet as if to say “See, Juliet, I told you Ben would find a way to kill Goodwin”, and the look on Juliet’s face says Juliet suspected what was happening.

  396. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="193873"]Miraks wrote:

    Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?

    Miraks, yeah that was a weird scene. In the jungle it seemed Charlotte was trying to convince Farraday to do the gassing. It seemed to me they were both madly trying to turn on the gas. They had the masks on. It seemed when Juliet showed up, they were trying to get the gas on faster before she could stop them. It seemed to malfunction and stop for whatever reason. They seemed very, very surprised and relieved that it stopped. Not sure what to think.[/quote]

    I think you guys are over analyzing this one to the extreme. Right now this is a chess match. Dan And Char were trying to disable the gas so Ben could not use it — as they said. The gas masks were in case Dan couldn’t do it — render the gas inert, which he almost failed to do.

  397. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193907"]
    If so I don’t know about that but the box had a plaque on it that said “box maker” and I found that interesting. Hurley owned a box company, that later burned down, and Locke worked in collections for that company.
    [/quote]
    Not to mention the “magic box” Ben alluded to.

  398. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="193911"][quote comment="193910"][quote comment="193852"]So then, you consciousness can be unstuck in time a decade before you are exposed to whatever is causing the problem?
    How does that happen? Your brain hasn’t been exposed to anything yet.
    Oh no, I think the writers have to make up something – quick!!![/quote]

    I understood the situation as the side effect, made Des’s exposed 2004 consciousness jump back to 1996.[/quote]
    Man this is confusing sometimes!

    RGS makes sense that the side effect happens in 2004 so you would think that his 2004 mind is doing the traveling. The problem is, his 1996 mind is what is traveling back and forth based on the fact that when his mind returns to 2004(before the constant) he thinks he is still in 1996.

    I DO NOT believe that they are making this up as they go along, but I don’t follow yet.[/quote]

    I think the way the ability is supposed to work is that your present conscience can go back in time, and see flashes of things to come. “Some people” traveling to or from the island at the wrong coordinates produces a side effect where the present conscience is not in control. Hence, Des’ 1996 conscience was in control until he established his constant.

  399. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193873"]Miraks wrote:

    Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?

    Miraks, yeah that was a weird scene. In the jungle it seemed Charlotte was trying to convince Farraday to do the gassing. It seemed to me they were both madly trying to turn on the gas. They had the masks on. It seemed when Juliet showed up, they were trying to get the gas on faster before she could stop them. It seemed to malfunction and stop for whatever reason. They seemed very, very surprised and relieved that it stopped. Not sure what to think.[/quote]

    IMO, far more likely than not, they were there to render the gas inert. We don’t know all the steps involved, as we only caught the tail end of it. So it seems as if they had to activate it, probably to introduce the inert gas and thereby making the whole reactor/machine/bad news island flatulence inert.

    IMO Charlotte was just trying to boost Dan up, give him confidence that he could pull it off.

    Yes they were relieved and surprised that they pulled it off, as no lives were lost, lives which may have answers that they need.

    I’m not sure if I’m following the thought process if they were turning it on.

    1) Gas not on, go to the tempest to turn on.
    2) Turn on gas release process.
    3) Juliette comes in and interrupts, “ut oh, we better shut this thing down, so Juliette does not catch “wind” of what we’re doing?”[Inset Austin Powers snarky look into the camera]

    I’m not sure I understand what the motivation would be for Daniel to stop what he’s doing if they were intending to kill everyone. They clearly continued to do what they wanted…just dissed Juliette (didn’t the cat fight start off with a face mush?…like shut up ho’ you’re always tryin to tell us what to do!).

    Since they were determined to continue to do what they wanted, the gas would’ve been released.

    They were wearing their masks in case they failed. Rescuing the survivors of 815…can’t exactly say that’s their primary mission.

    It’s kinda funny how in some ways the writer’s can’t win for losing. It seems like they wrote the previous episodes and this episode slanted so that viewers would think the freightor folks were bad, then they flip the switch and slant them to look good. Flipping the switch to make them look good was not a very obvious turn of events.

    Then it appears that Michael has a very strong chance of being the man on the bo…ship. In fact, it will be the obvious choice, and folks will be disappointed with that too for being too obvious.

  400. sector7 says:

    I don’t think this establishes the tots as good or bad, just pieces in the chess match/war that is coming.

    I don’t think Michael being the man on the boat is bad. We are so consumed with this show that we made Michael being the obvious bad choice ourselves. Let’s hear the story John had to sit down for before we say Michael being Ben’s man is a bad choice.

  401. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193925"][Then it appears that Michael has a very strong chance of being the man on the bo…ship. In fact, it will be the obvious choice, and folks will be disappointed with that too for being too obvious.[/quote]
    Yeah, you are right. The complaining has already started, but I think that it would validate the show. Michael was left in limbo after he left thinking he was headed for rescue, but we all know that Ben wouldn’t let happen. Since he has not yet popped up back on the island (ala Des circling the island in his boat) he must have been headed to somewhere Ben could keep track of him and Walt. Why is this disappointing? We’ve heard complaints about not getting answers of where Michael and Walt are, now if they are on the boat we are going to hear more complaints about where they were?

  402. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193891"][quote comment="193888"]
    From my favorite info site: “As heard on the August 2 podcast, Damon Lindelof confirmed at Comic-Con 2007 that Mikhail is deceased. [1] This can further be heard on the September 21st podcast and on the Blu-ray Disc of Lost: The Complete Third Season.”
    [/quote]
    Oh I have no doubt that they said that about Mikhail. They also said no time-traveling… where are we now?

    After the spear in the chest, we were supposed to see, ergo, believe he was dead. Now that we did NOT see him ‘splode w/ the grenade, are we to assume, de facto, that he is gone?

    The producers have fibbed before. They’ll do it again. Hope to see Mikhail eventually, if only in flashback.

    (LOST Trivia: If Patchy was in charge of all the ships, subs & boats after the Purge… would they have called it ‘Mikhails Navy’?;^)[/quote]
    Lol@Mikhail’s Navy.

    When have the writer’s fibbed before?

    As far as time traveling, I can roll with the “spin” that they have put in that people aren’t physically time traveling, rather just the minds. Even so, it quietly hasn’t been that major in the story, just local to Des… so far. (Don’t really count Minkowski,as he is just a sideshow).

  403. Bobola says:

    Picking up from my thread earlier; I didn’t remember Juliett shooting Pickett (dunno why cuz that was an intense scene);
    But Lost Chicka…I don’t consider that murder when Pickett was just about to kill Sawyer! That is defense of another person and justifiable. I think she was happy to do it too because between Pickett and Sawyer, Pickett clearly was the nasty one.
    So yeah; there’s no real evidence that Juliett is bad…not yet! Except for her taste in men…that was one lame kiss with Jack.

  404. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193896"][quote comment="193696"]After reading several of the posts I am starting to wonder it is WALT as Ben’s spy on the boat. It just seems like Locke has a real connection to Walt compared to any other survivor. Also, after being shot by Ben, it was Walt that told Locke to get up again and that was pretty inspiring for him. If you think about it, Locke even told the group about having seen Walt. If Ben told Locke, “you’re going to need to sit down for this” and then told him it was WALT on the boat- I would think that would be the only person that would make Locke just free Ben the way he did. It would make him feel like he wasn’t nuts after all and truly does have some sort of connection to the island and be vindicated to some extent.
    I was curious if anyone thought that Walt was doing the time travel thing to explain how Shannon and Locke saw him.[/quote]
    I agree, in fact I had logged on to post that exact theory. Michael may be on the boat but Walt is Bens “mand on the boat.”[/quote]

    I hate to admit it, but I like that theory. I like it alot, I wonder how they would explain it though?

  405. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="193940"]I don’t think this establishes the tots as good or bad, just pieces in the chess match/war that is coming.

    I don’t think Michael being the man on the boat is bad. We are so consumed with this show that we made Michael being the obvious bad choice ourselves. Let’s hear the story John had to sit down for before we say Michael being Ben’s man is a bad choice.[/quote]
    The chess match, just like in Through the Looking Glass, Who will be the red queen and yell, “Off with their heads.” Who is Alice trying to safely navigate the chess board.

  406. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193911"][quote comment="193910"][quote comment="193852"]So then, you consciousness can be unstuck in time a decade before you are exposed to whatever is causing the problem?
    How does that happen? Your brain hasn’t been exposed to anything yet.
    Oh no, I think the writers have to make up something – quick!!![/quote]

    I understood the situation as the side effect, made Des’s exposed 2004 consciousness jump back to 1996.[/quote]
    Man this is confusing sometimes!

    RGS makes sense that the side effect happens in 2004 so you would think that his 2004 mind is doing the traveling. The problem is, his 1996 mind is what is traveling back and forth based on the fact that when his mind returns to 2004(before the constant) he thinks he is still in 1996.

    I DO NOT believe that they are making this up as they go along, but I don’t follow yet.[/quote]

    I don’t think the ’96 mind and the ’04 mind are mutually exclusive. The ’96 mind has to make up the ’04 mind right? If so, it is this part of his mind that is doing the traveling. The side effects, affect everyone differently, and they (Dan) don’t even know how it works, just something happens. I think they left themselves an out, in that they don’t get specific in how it works.

  407. sector7 says:

    What Ben told John must be a whopper. Why else would John let him go. The same guy who shot him and left him for dead because he was jealous?

  408. sector7 says:

    RGS wrote: The side effects, affect everyone differently, and they (Dan) don’t even know how it works, just something happens. I think they left themselves an out, in that they don’t get specific in how it works.

    Dan does know how it works. He told Des he needed a constant.

  409. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193960"]I don’t think the ’96 mind and the ’04 mind are mutually exclusive. The ’96 mind has to make up the ’04 mind right? If so, it is this part of his mind that is doing the traveling. The side effects, affect everyone differently, and they (Dan) don’t even know how it works, just something happens. I think they left themselves an out, in that they don’t get specific in how it works.[/quote]
    You are likely correct. Just over analyzing again trying to find out the possibilities going forward.

  410. sector7 says:

    RGS, Hammer, come on guys, you don’t think Dan knows how it works. He has been doing tests on this stuff since ’96. Why else was he chosen to be on the team?

  411. skweez says:

    RGS, thank you for the comments. I agree 100%..

    The reason why some feel that Michael being Ben’s man on the boat is lame is because that has been the obvious choice since Ben said he had a man on the boat. We’re so used to BIG twists that we feel this wouldn’t be BIG enough. But actually, it’s huge. We didn’t know what happenned to Michael or Walt, and we’re gonna find out. I’m sure Michael is gonna give some insight into Ben being “one of the good guys”. And maybe, just maybe, they’ll tell us why Walt is so tall in such a short period of time!

  412. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193972"]RGS wrote: The side effects, affect everyone differently, and they (Dan) don’t even know how it works, just something happens. I think they left themselves an out, in that they don’t get specific in how it works.

    Dan does know how it works. He told Des he needed a constant.[/quote]

    No I meant how the affect on the mind in veering off course. Yes he knows how conscious traveling works, but he doesn’t know what affect will happen when one goes to and from the island.

    JACK: Why does he think he’s in 1996?

    DAN: I don’t know, I don’t know. It’s unpredictable, it’s a random effect. Sometimes it takes place for only a couple of hours, sometimes it’s years.

  413. RGS says:

    [quote comment="193991"]RGS, thank you for the comments. I agree 100%..

    The reason why some feel that Michael being Ben’s man on the boat is lame is because that has been the obvious choice since Ben said he had a man on the boat. We’re so used to BIG twists that we feel this wouldn’t be BIG enough. But actually, it’s huge. We didn’t know what happenned to Michael or Walt, and we’re gonna find out. I’m sure Michael is gonna give some insight into Ben being “one of the good guys”. And maybe, just maybe, they’ll tell us why Walt is so tall in such a short period of time![/quote]

    Easy tiger, if this were Pulp Fiction and I was the Wolf, I’d hit you with a, “let’s not…” I’m not ready to make the leap that Ben is good…far from that in fact. But I believe he could be manipulating. But it is still a nice theory.

  414. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193903"]
    Doc, do you know we can find video, audio or a transcript of when Damon said no time travel. I would like to see if he was using “Clinton speak”. Maybe he meant up that point in the story or maybe he meant no travel in the more popular sense, because I think he was responding to someone asking about a time machine.
    [/quote]
    I think I lumped PURGATORY in w/ TIME TRAVEL.
    They said no PURGATORY, which is the suspension of time, where nothing and everything happens at once, AND not at all. Time travel has been a running tease (my read) and they use it as their scientific catch-all phrase to hide behind, when they talk about what they haven’t disclosed yet. They joke, they deflect and they hesitate. Classic tells of fibbers. They also use the word “incarnation”. I hate long posts too. Apologies.
    _________
    From the ABC show recap -Flashes Before Your Eyes
    – Desmond’s convinced he’s remembering his future, that he’s traveling through time. He asks his friend, Donovan, a physics teacher, about it. Donovan tells him there’s no such thing as time travel, that it’s his anxiety about Penny moving in and her father. But Desmond tries to prove he knows what’s going to happen by predicting things: how a football match ends and how the bartender gets his head bashed in.
    – They wait, but nothing happens as predicted. Donovan’s convinced it’s all in Desmond’s head.
    ___________
    20 Feb 07:
    Carlton Cuse: …Remember the last episode when Juliet asked whose organs were in the pictures? She said the woman could be about 70 years old. The man answered that the woman’s age was about 30. Then Juliet asked what had happened to the woman. I think that was – she looking at her own pictures, but she didn’t realize it. She would get old because of time travel. True?
    Damon Lindelof: False! I love questions like that, they’re easy. False. With a capital F.
    __________
    8 Nov 05
    Damon Lindelof: …there’s a big picture within the bigger picture, so it’s always in service of that. So, I feel, obviously, with fans…
    Carlton Cuse: You’re not going to tell them about the time travel, are you?
    Damon Lindelof: No, no, I’m not going to, in fact, I’m going to go back in time and prevent you from having said that. [Laughs]
    ___________________
    20 Feb 07
    Carlton Cuse: So talk about Dam- uh Desmond’s flashback, Damon. I can’t say Damon and Desmond in the same sentence so. Did he really go back, or is that still questionable? What are the implications of his vision? And will he be able to harness this power?
    Damon Lindelof: Yeah, I guess it wasn’t really quite a flashback in the, in the conventional sense of the way that we do flashbacks on the show, you know, the reality of it is, this is more the experience that he had when he turned the fail safe key and obviously as evidenced by certain future memories that he’s having during his flashback. Uh, for the first time in the history of the show we actually allowed a character to have an opportunity to make a different choice than they make before and, uh, Desmond doesn’t. He is, he’s, he, he is, he is course corrected by, by a certain mysterious, uh, older lady in a ring shop. So uh, uh what, what was your question?
    Damon Lindelof: You know, one of the things that we’ve tried very rarely to do on the show is to, to play something as only having been imagined or dreamed. And you know, I’d, I would, I would say that in the global sense of things, that Desmond, back in, you know back in the, the year 1996, actually had that experience. Now, I would venture to guess that in future flashbacks of Desmond’s, that they would be, treated as traditional flashbacks where he doesn’t really have any awareness of his destiny, but in this particular instance, uh, we went outside the box a little.
    Carlton Cuse: Right, I mean I think it’s, uh, it’s entirely possible he can have a traditional flashback story as well.
    Damon Lindelof: Absolutely, but I think what’s interesting is there are, there are certain things that happen the way that they used to happen, that he changed as a result of being in the past, that might sort of resonate over time, you know. Like getting hit in the face, instead of the bartender, or the fact that the photograph of he and Penny got take uh – got, got taken the day that he broke up with her. Maybe, maybe in a, in another incarnation there were two photographs, you know. Maybe they, maybe they’ve, maybe there was a two for.

  415. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193991"]RGS, thank you for the comments. I agree 100%..

    The reason why some feel that Michael being Ben’s man on the boat is lame is because that has been the obvious choice since Ben said he had a man on the boat. We’re so used to BIG twists that we feel this wouldn’t be BIG enough. But actually, it’s huge. We didn’t know what happenned to Michael or Walt, and we’re gonna find out. I’m sure Michael is gonna give some insight into Ben being “one of the good guys”. And maybe, just maybe, they’ll tell us why Walt is so tall in such a short period of time![/quote]
    Another aspect of this issue is that to those of us who spend every waking moment of our lives wathching, analyzing, reading about, and discussing Lost, it seems predictable and anticlimactic for Michael to be Ben’s man on the boat. But for 99% of the viewers, they probably have little to no clue and very well may have forgotten about Michael completely. For them, it will be a surprise and a “huge twist”.

  416. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193892"]
    Juliet-
    Does Juliet look anything like Jacks ex-wife Sarah, I can’t remember. If she does, Maybe Ben nose that and that is one of his uses for Juliet. To keep tabs on Jack.
    [/quote]
    Yes Juliet looks similar to Sarah, well, at least in that they are attractive blondes. IIRC, it was specifically stated on the show that the reason Juliet was the Other that was chosen to interact with Jack the most while he was a captive was because of her resemblance to Sarah.

  417. skweez says:

    Easy tiger, if this were Pulp Fiction and I was the Wolf, I’d hit you with a, “let’s not…” I’m not ready to make the leap that Ben is good…far from that in fact. But I believe he could be manipulating. But it is still a nice theory.[/quote]

    Not sure I understand your reply?????

  418. DocH says:

    [quote comment="193948"]
    So yeah; there’s no real evidence that Juliett is bad…not yet! Except for her taste in men…that was one lame kiss with Jack.
    [/quote]
    I agree. Even when she was holding Jack in the aquarium on the Hydra Island, she wasn’t ‘bad’ bad, she just wanted to press him into service on her “Big Mission” – getting home to her sister.
    And I agree with your “reality check” last week. Having a swim, picnic and sipping wine on a deserted beach with her married boy-toy Goodwin, I expect a little skinny-dipping would be the order of the day.
    8)

  419. Toeknee says:

    OK, here’s some great reading if you want some further explanation of what went on in The Constant. This is an article by Jeff Jensen at EW.com, with input from Damon Lindeloff. May be a bit spoilerish:

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20182393,00.html

    A key excerpt:
    “In ”The Constant,” Desmond became ”unstuck in time” after flying through a thundercloud crackling with strange electricity. He experienced something like time travel, though not bodily time travel; instead, his consciousness shuttled between two different time periods, Island present 2004 and Desmond’s past 1996. But here’s the tricky twist: Desmond’s Island-present mind wasn’t the one doing the time traveling. When Desmond got hit with Island magic, his consciousness got knocked off-line and was replaced by his 1996 self. It was this older Desmond consciousness that toggled between present and past throughout the episode. Once Desmond ’96 completed the errand of getting Penny’s phone number so he could call her on Christmas Eve 2004, Desmond’s present-day mind came back online, but rebooted with the new memories created by his time-travel adventure. I know: tricky stuff. But I had the chance to run all this by Damon Lindelof — and he says this interpretation is correct.”

    The best line:
    Damon also said ”Looking for specific rules for how all this works will lead you down the path of insanity.”

  420. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="193915"][quote comment="193873"]Miraks wrote:

    Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?

    Miraks, yeah that was a weird scene. In the jungle it seemed Charlotte was trying to convince Farraday to do the gassing. It seemed to me they were both madly trying to turn on the gas. They had the masks on. It seemed when Juliet showed up, they were trying to get the gas on faster before she could stop them. It seemed to malfunction and stop for whatever reason. They seemed very, very surprised and relieved that it stopped. Not sure what to think.[/quote]

    I think you guys are over analyzing this one to the extreme. Right now this is a chess match. Dan And Char were trying to disable the gas so Ben could not use it — as they said. The gas masks were in case Dan couldn’t do it — render the gas inert, which he almost failed to do.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I agree about the over-analysis bit, but then again, that’s why we’re all here.

    Look, you don’t have to try to read into what anyone said or did. All you had to do was listen to the computerized voice as Daniel was typing into the computer. As soon as Juliet entered the station, the voice was saying “Repeated attempts to access storage tanks will result in contamination”. Yet Daniel continued to type stuff into the computer. If they wanted release the gas (i.e., create “contamination”), he wouldn’t have any reason to continue typing. He didn’t stop typing until he was able to prevent the contamination from happening.

  421. RGS says:

    [quote comment="194010"]Easy tiger, if this were Pulp Fiction and I was the Wolf, I’d hit you with a, “let’s not…” I’m not ready to make the leap that Ben is good…far from that in fact. But I believe he could be manipulating. But it is still a nice theory.[/quote]

    Not sure I understand your reply?????[/quote]

    I am being silly, did you ever see ‘Pulp Fiction?’ In it there’s a scene where characters are doing some premature rejoicing, before the Wolf steps in and calms the situation down.

    My reply was just that while yes I am following you, I interpreted your post as going on to mention how they will somehow show Ben as a “good guy.” I disagree with that part.

  422. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="193991"]The reason why some feel that Michael being Ben’s man on the boat is lame is because that has been the obvious choice since Ben said he had a man on the boat. We’re so used to BIG twists that we feel this wouldn’t be BIG enough.[/quote]

    Well, yes. I have to admit it’s PARTLY that, but not just. The other reason I feel it would be lame is that I can’t imagine a satisfactory reason for it to happen that way. It would involve:

    1. Ben more or less lying to Michael about letting him go. Yes, it could be argued that he promised to get him ‘off the island’ and that the ‘frighter’ is technically, ‘off’ the island – but still – it would be Ben not holding up his end of the deal. I know a lot of people don’t think Ben would keep up his end of a deal anyway, but I tend to think otherwise. Ben is a deceitful, manipulative man, but I don’t see that he’s been that much of a liar since the whole Henry Gale thing boiled over.

    2. It would also involve Michael somehow (and after being deceived by Ben) willfully helping Ben instead of turning against him. Why would he do that? Unless Ben still has Walt?

    3. UNLESS – Michael can be Ben’s ‘man on the boat’ without KNOWING it. I.e. he has some kind of plant on him (unlikely? and does not explain the radio sabotage or the door opening for Sayid, Desmond, and Minkowski) or that Ben can trade consciousness with him (even more unlikely…and we’ve had no demo of ‘that’ kind of thin happeneing..) in order to ‘be’ on the frighter.

    4. ALL of this would furthermore be contingent on the frighter folk being ‘friendly’ to Michael, and letting him hang out on the ship, and with enough liberty to be able to do things on the ship. This seems unlikely. Why would they trust him? At all?

    5. Also – it occurs to me that had the frighter folk known about Michael – than Naomi would have known about him too – and this would make the fact that she didn’t mention Michael to Desmond, Charlie, or Jack or anybody really ridiculous. She never said “You’re all dead, OH – Except for that guy Michael, your friend.”, etc…see? It gets silly.

    So, it’s not just that for us it would be a ‘predictable choice’ – I also think it’s difficult as hell to ‘explain’ it in a satisfying way. Of course, it’s been a ‘while’ since Michael was gone, so it’s theoretically possible to fill that time-gap with something that would resolve these motivational issues, but I’m just doubtful about it.

    Sorry if that was long-winded.

  423. Freckles says:

    sector7 – I think Dan is extremely intelligent, but he has a problem with memory.

  424. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194038"]
    Ben is a deceitful, manipulative man, but I don’t see that he’s been that much of a liar since the whole Henry Gale thing boiled over.
    [/quote]
    > Yeah, that whole lying to Juliet about her sister thing, before the Gale thing, and lying to her since, that doesn’t paint his true stripes?
    > I think his Lieutenants’, Goodwin & Ethan are gone, his medical Captain, Juliet has gone rogue, and the only one he truly confides in his Colonel – Richard Alpert, now leading the troops to safety.
    > Ben’s Army of nasties may be growing by one. After this last episode, I think Locke was in the recruiting office AND he just raised his hand and took the oath.
    > Was Harper really there, or a vision. She may be Bens’ Captain (of psych) too. We’ve seen a hatch that we only got a glimpse of (the Pearl?) where we saw cig butts and lots of camera converage around the island. Maybe a living breathing Harper is holed-up there, detecting the freighter tots enroute to the Tempest. Maybe Ben is exactly where he wants to be… back in the Barracks… where Harper can see and monitor him. With all of the tunnels under the barracks, she may even be able to get to him now.

  425. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="194057"]Yeah, that whole lying to Juliet about her sister thing, before the Gale thing, and lying to her since, that doesn’t paint his true stripes?[/quote]

    Maybe I’ve forgotten something? What about her sister? He said he’d save her – do we know he hasn’t?

  426. DocH says:

    Ben saying he has a “Man” on the boat doesn’t mean his “Man” on the boat is a male, could be a female.
    So if Michael made it to the freighter, where is the red, 25′ tender he drove there? Did they sink it? Set it adrift? Tow it to Fiji during their port-call there?
    Maybe Michael was taken to Fiji or, is being held on the freighter and interrogated for info. I’ll help with the water-boarding.

    And Walt, if he is still on the freighter, waiting for dad to catch his breath, perhaps he is responsible for the Communication Room chaos. He has willed things from his mind before. Maybe he got someone (Minkowski) to go nuts on the radio systems for him? Still trying to help or protect Locke? Protect the other kids that were taken?

    We ended TOW on Day 97 (wiki), Mike & Walt left on Day 67 meaning they’d be on the freighter for about a month.

  427. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194073"]
    Maybe I’ve forgotten something? What about her sister? He said he’d save her – do we know he hasn’t?
    [/quote]
    I don’t think we know either way.
    Clarifying – Bad Ben + the sister thing = lying to Juliet in order to keep her on-island 2.5 years longer than the 0.5 years she agreed to, “just to get some”.

  428. RGS says:

    Ben also lied about being born on the island.

    A little nugget that may mean something regarding the continued Dharma drops, possible reasoning. When Ben shot Locke, he said he was ONE of the people that was smart enough not to end up in the ditch.

    Conceivably, some of these other Dharma folks could have help him with the ruse that though they had an issue, it had been resolved and everything could continue as planned.

  429. DocH says:

    Seems more like “Bens’ Person On The Boat” would have to infiltrate the mission before it started (via Naomi, Abba, Wid), rather than a loose cannon like Michael being trusted – coming from the island, he would immediately be suspect as a Benonnite.

  430. JamieGirl says:

    Is Juliet Ben’s constant? “You are mine” …

  431. JamieGirl says:

    Charlotte never tells Daniel that Ben claimed to have a man on the freighter.

  432. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="194057"]Maybe Ben is exactly where he wants to be… back in the Barracks… where Harper can see and monitor him. With all of the tunnels under the barracks, she may even be able to get to him now.[/quote]

    Two things…

    First, yes, tunnels under the barracks! Didn’t Locke keep Ben in Ben’s OWN basement? That would mean he might know about a secret exit from the “cell” he was being kept in. Even if it were someone else’s basement, he still might. Because, after the first night, it appeared that Ben was “free to move about the cabin” so to speak.

    Second, we don’t really know the timing when Locke let Ben wander New Otherton, we only SAW him AFTER Harper “whispered” her message to Juliet and Jack. It is definitely possible that he was “free” early enough to get a message to her – over a walkie, even perhaps with Locke’s permission – but that we didn’t SEE him free until Hurley and Sawyer did.

    Who knows!?

    : ) P

  433. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194103"]
    … yes, tunnels under the barracks! Didn’t Locke keep Ben in Ben’s OWN basement? That would mean he might know about a secret exit from the “cell” he was being kept in.
    [/quote]
    Yepper… we saw a secret door upstairs too, into Ben’s private walk-in closet – mad clothes, mad money and passports! (= mad fun).

  434. Andrew says:

    i dont think micheal is a bad choice for micheals boat, if it wansnt for this blog i would have never thought of him being brought back to this show. i would say its a pretty good suprise for most of the lost watchers

  435. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194103"]…it appeared that Ben was “free to move about the cabin” so to speak.
    [/quote]
    Yes to that also. Locke brought Ben his rabbit dinner. Ben was sitting on the floor reading the VALIS novel that he rejected before. He was untied in his cell. Locke did tie Ben up later when he took him upstairs to find the hidden vault. Man, if I were Locke, I’d tear those Barracks to shreds looking for hidden stuff. I wonder if Sayid even told Locke about the hidden closet.?

  436. shai says:

    i think..

    the thing Ben has on Sayid in the future is the whereabouts of Nadia (I think thats her name). The girl Sayid fell in love before the island.

  437. shai says:

    and.. i also think that #5 and #6 of the oceanic 6 are walt and michael.. they were on the plane and probably left the island..

  438. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="194108"][quote comment="194103"]…it appeared that Ben was “free to move about the cabin” so to speak.
    [/quote]
    Yes to that also. Locke brought Ben his rabbit dinner. Ben was sitting on the floor reading the VALIS novel that he rejected before. He was untied in his cell. Locke did tie Ben up later when he took him upstairs to find the hidden vault. Man, if I were Locke, I’d tear those Barracks to shreds looking for hidden stuff. I wonder if Sayid even told Locke about the hidden closet.?[/quote]
    When Kate yelled for Sayid he ran out of the secret room to find Locke pointing a gun at his head so yes, Locke knows about that room at least.

  439. vavila says:

    [quote comment="194028"][quote comment="193915"][quote comment="193873"]Miraks wrote:

    Need some clarification if this is wrong. What I got from this episode was that Charlotte and Dan went to the Tempest to release the gas. That is what they were doing when Juliette showed up. When they got interupted, they turned the gas back off. Then- they claimed that they had been trying to turn it off from the start. Did I completely misunderstand that?

    Miraks, yeah that was a weird scene. In the jungle it seemed Charlotte was trying to convince Farraday to do the gassing. It seemed to me they were both madly trying to turn on the gas. They had the masks on. It seemed when Juliet showed up, they were trying to get the gas on faster before she could stop them. It seemed to malfunction and stop for whatever reason. They seemed very, very surprised and relieved that it stopped. Not sure what to think.[/quote]

    I think you guys are over analyzing this one to the extreme. Right now this is a chess match. Dan And Char were trying to disable the gas so Ben could not use it — as they said. The gas masks were in case Dan couldn’t do it — render the gas inert, which he almost failed to do.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I agree about the over-analysis bit, but then again, that’s why we’re all here.

    Look, you don’t have to try to read into what anyone said or did. All you had to do was listen to the computerized voice as Daniel was typing into the computer. As soon as Juliet entered the station, the voice was saying “Repeated attempts to access storage tanks will result in contamination”. Yet Daniel continued to type stuff into the computer. If they wanted release the gas (i.e., create “contamination”), he wouldn’t have any reason to continue typing. He didn’t stop typing until he was able to prevent the contamination from happening.[/quote]
    —————————-
    What if Dan and Charlotte wanted to release the gas to get rid of it, so it cannot be used against them (or other people) in future. If Widmore moves in physically to ‘take over’ the island, then Ben’s ppl and Losties can organize a purge, access gas masks to survive the purge; and we know that Ben under such circumstances would want to gas the invaders- an effective way to get rid of them. But such purge will not be done by releasing the gas from the station it will be done like it was done in Dharma – multiple gas tanks will be delivered and released in a relatively small area where enemy lives.

    This being said, the release of the gas from the station only, will not kill all island’s inhabitants because of the station’s distance from where losties are. Thus it is possible that Dan’s and Charlotte’s gas release mission was simply about making gas ‘weapon’ unavilable to Ben rather than killing island’s inhabitants.

    Because Juliet came, Dan and Charlotte i guess didn’t want to kill her, and stopped ‘contamination’, which means that gas may still be used by Ben in future unless Dan and Charlotte do attempt #2…

  440. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="194090"]Seems more like “Bens’ Person On The Boat” would have to infiltrate the mission before it started (via Naomi, Abba, Wid), rather than a loose cannon like Michael being trusted – coming from the island, he would immediately be suspect as a Benonnite.[/quote]

    That’s why I suspect Michael made it to civilization first. There’s no doubt that if he did, Ben could have gotten to him wherever he was.

    This would also explain why the small boat he left on is not at the frieghter.

    This might also explain why he would not be labeled one of the O-6. I suspect he has changed his identity for some reason.

  441. sector7 says:

    vavila wrote: Because Juliet came, Dan and Charlotte i guess didn’t want to kill her, and stopped ‘contamination’, which means that gas may still be used by Ben in future unless Dan and Charlotte do attempt #2…

    Dan made the gas inert. That was his intention all along. The masks and suits were just in case he failed. I highly doubt it will be a factor again.

  442. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="193991"]RGS, thank you for the comments. I agree 100%..

    The reason why some feel that Michael being Ben’s man on the boat is lame is because that has been the obvious choice since Ben said he had a man on the boat. We’re so used to BIG twists that we feel this wouldn’t be BIG enough. But actually, it’s huge. We didn’t know what happenned to Michael or Walt, and we’re gonna find out. I’m sure Michael is gonna give some insight into Ben being “one of the good guys”. And maybe, just maybe, they’ll tell us why Walt is so tall in such a short period of time![/quote]
    What about this? IMO, Michael has to be on the boat because where else would he be? Could it be that Michael is on the boat helping the Losties, but someone else on the boat is Ben’s spy?

  443. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="194000"][I think I lumped PURGATORY in w/ TIME TRAVEL.
    They said no PURGATORY, which is the suspension of time, where nothing and everything happens at once, AND not at all.quote]

    Thanks for the effort DocH.

  444. sector7 says:

    I think Michael is on the boat because the preview makes it sound that way and because we know they are going to bring him back this year.

    I think Michael is the spy and not by choice. I think Ben is manipulating him to be his spy (a la future Sayid). There’s no way Michael would be doing this because he thinks Ben is good now. Ben has either told him he has to do this to save Walt or to save the other survivors. If Michael used his real name on the boat, the tots would know he was from 815.

  445. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="194246"]I think Michael is on the boat because the preview makes it sound that way and because we know they are going to bring him back this year.

    I think Michael is the spy and not by choice. I think Ben is manipulating him to be his spy (a la future Sayid). There’s no way Michael would be doing this because he thinks Ben is good now. Ben has either told him he has to do this to save Walt or to save the other survivors. If Michael used his real name on the boat, the tots would know he was from 815.[/quote]
    I very much agree with you, I threw my last post out as a “would that appease you?” idea.

  446. CAG says:

    Ben’s “man on the boat” could be Locke’s dad … that would make Locke have to sit down!
    I don’t like the “Red Sox” tape business … By the time Jack saw the tape, the hatch had been blown up and all communication off the island was lost, and a few days later, Locke blew up the sub. When did Ben have time to get the widmore video?

  447. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="194250"]Ben’s “man on the boat” could be Locke’s dad … that would make Locke have to sit down!
    I don’t like the “Red Sox” tape business … By the time Jack saw the tape, the hatch had been blown up and all communication off the island was lost, and a few days later, Locke blew up the sub. When did Ben have time to get the widmore video?[/quote]

    The creators have stated that once someone dies, they are dead for good. That includes John’s dad and Ecko.

    Your second point is interesting. We need to research exactly what was said about the after effects of the hatch being blown.

  448. sector7 says:

    I had to think about it for a minute, but Jack saw the tape near the beginning of season 3. Ben would have had time to get the tape before the sub was blown. I think another question is, does Ben have another way to leave the island besides the sub that we are unaware of?

  449. CAG says:

    [quote comment="194253"]I had to think about it for a minute, but Jack saw the tape near the beginning of season 3. Ben would have had time to get the tape before the sub was blown. I think another question is, does Ben have another way to leave the island besides the sub that we are unaware of?[/quote]

    Yeah, depending on how long it takes to get to and from the island. Also, I’m remembering that maybe the whole communications problem was a ruse by Ben, who had the women in the underwater lab jam transmissions, but not telling Mikhail about it. Gotta wonder, though, why Ben doesn’t have more tapes … I mean, the world series?!!? He should’ve taped over Xanadu!!

  450. RGS says:

    [quote comment="194250"]Ben’s “man on the boat” could be Locke’s dad … that would make Locke have to sit down!
    I don’t like the “Red Sox” tape business … By the time Jack saw the tape, the hatch had been blown up and all communication off the island was lost, and a few days later, Locke blew up the sub. When did Ben have time to get the widmore video?[/quote]

    I am not sure all communication off the island was lost afer the hatch blew up. The Flame station was still operational. It appeared down after Locke beat the chess game, but that does not mean it could operate otherwise. In fact, it was wired to explode with C4.

    The computer game had the option of signalling in a food pallet drop, commuincation with mainland, and a station uplink. I think that’s how food kept getting dropped, as Mikhail dressed in his Dharma suit, would make contact, keeping their ruse up. I think once the Flame got blown up, current Dharma I. THEN knew something was up.

    Ben then had all forms of communications blocked at the Looking Glass. I also believe Widmore & Dharma are working together, if not 1 and the same, and alternatively, at a minimum Widmore is very connected to Dharma. (Maybe used the Black Rock Journal as a bargaining chip).

    As far as time to get the video, we dont know when it was taped, or taped over. It could have been taped the day after shown to Jack. It could’ve been received b4 the sub being blown up.

  451. Cutley says:

    More of this at http://robotindisguiseblog.blogspot.com/

    I think most of us can agree that “The Other Woman” episode was not classic LOST. But if the show has taught us anything, it’s that the episodes must be viewed in the right light. Isolated episodes may not seem to have great importance, much the same way a single tile of a mosaic appears insignificant apart from its whole. However, both stand as integral parts of a larger whole that gain greater significance when placed within their proper context.

    Last season, I felt the episode about Hurley and the old VW bus was a nice episode and would have fit perfectly in season one, but felt out of place in season three. I thought it was a waste of an episode. But over the course of the next few episodes, when the skeleton in the bus was revealed to be Ben’s awful father and the bus saved the lives of Sayid, Jin and Bernard, the episodes full meaning was revealed. The surrounding tiles and new perspective gave the singular tile its proper and complete context. Then there was the Jack in Bali episode when he got the tattoos, which was awful at the time of airing and when the full story arc of season three was played out. Here’s to hoping that “The Other Woman” is more like the former than the latter.

  452. LLOL says:

    [quote comment="193966"]What Ben told John must be a whopper. Why else would John let him go. The same guy who shot him and left him for dead because he was jealous?[/quote]

    I haven’t seen anyone suggest the following yet: Perhaps Locke didn’t let Ben go…we never saw the actual conversation that supposedly was powerful enough to change Locke’s mind. I think it is possible that Locke was overpowered and we won’t see this until later. Was Locke in any of the scenes for the next show?

  453. LLOL says:

    I enjoyed the horseshoes match–with all the magnetism on the island, it was pretty funny to see the ringers and leaners.

  454. LLOL says:

    One more…
    Charlotte is still a real mystery. Young, trained as an anthropologist, with a real tough side. Makes you wonder A LOT about her connections. We haven’t really seen her do anything related to her education, other than that scene from Tunisia. She asserts herself wherever she is, suggesting that she is either used to getting her way (rich and spoiled) or very well-connected to the leader of this whole thing. Assuming she is either, it isn’t yet clear why she is part of a mission that could endanger her life. If she is neither rich nor well-connected, I’d like some insight into her motives. She is somewhat out of place IMO.

  455. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="194267"][quote comment="193966"]What Ben told John must be a whopper. Why else would John let him go. The same guy who shot him and left him for dead because he was jealous?[/quote]

    I haven’t seen anyone suggest the following yet: Perhaps Locke didn’t let Ben go…we never saw the actual conversation that supposedly was powerful enough to change Locke’s mind. I think it is possible that Locke was overpowered and we won’t see this until later. Was Locke in any of the scenes for the next show?[/quote]

    Doesn’t seem likely seeing as how John was able to beat the crap out of patchy at the drop of a dime. Besides, overpowering isn’t Ben’s way. Now, Ben might have held something over John to let him go. You know, like something John feels strongly about.

  456. LLOL says:

    [quote comment="194270"][quote comment="194267"][quote comment="193966"]What Ben told John must be a whopper. Why else would John let him go. The same guy who shot him and left him for dead because he was jealous?[/quote]

    I haven’t seen anyone suggest the following yet: Perhaps Locke didn’t let Ben go…we never saw the actual conversation that supposedly was powerful enough to change Locke’s mind. I think it is possible that Locke was overpowered and we won’t see this until later. Was Locke in any of the scenes for the next show?[/quote]

    Doesn’t seem likely seeing as how John was able to beat the crap out of patchy at the drop of a dime. Besides, overpowering isn’t Ben’s way. Now, Ben might have held something over John to let him go. You know, like something John feels strongly about.[/quote]

    O.K. John has been completely hoodwinked by Ben at least once before; he was embarrassed publicly when he lead the group to see Jacob’s house and it wasn’t there; he knew that Ben was working on him again (when he threw the breakfast tray against the wall); and now he falls for whatever Ben tells him and release him. It must something pretty powerful. It seems that Locke had been really stoked after Walt spoke to him and he left the body pit. Now he has pathetically returned to the guy who was unable to shoot the undercover cop at the marijuana farm.

  457. RGS says:

    [quote comment="194237"][quote comment="194028"][quote comment="193915"][quote comment="193873"]
    This being said, the release of the gas from the station only, will not kill all island’s inhabitants because of the station’s distance from where losties are. Thus it is possible that Dan’s and Charlotte’s gas release mission was simply about making gas ‘weapon’ unavilable to Ben rather than killing island’s inhabitants.[/quote]

    I believe it is the writer’s intent that if the gas at the Tempest were to be released everyone would have died.

    Dan & Charlotte knew they had to deactivate it.
    Harper/Smokey tried to allude that those 2 were trying to release it and kill everyone.
    Goodwin, displaying his machismo, said he worked with chemicals that could kill everyone on the island if he flipped the wrong switch.

  458. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="194252"]The creators have stated that once someone dies, they are dead for good. That includes John’s dad and Ecko.[/quote]

    Well now, here is a question. Did we actually SEE Locke’s dad die? I mean Locke was shot through and through and miraculously survived and they share DNA. I know Sawyer shot Locke’s dad, but we only saw a sack with a man shaped weight inside it after the fact.

    And as for Mr. Eko. Did he actually die? I sort of remember him kind of disintegrating from the smoke monster. (Maybe I am wrong.) If that IS the case, who KNOWS what that means.

    : ) P

  459. Lins says:

    Re-watched and noticed a few things:

    1. What happened to Jin and Sun? They were wandering in the jungle in the rain too…did they just give up and go back to the beach?

    2. Charlotte is a little evil! She pulled that gun out on Kate pretty quick and held her own fighting Juliette. BTW, you can totally see the stnut girl’s face in that scene with her and Juliette fighting.

    3. If Ben has given Locke all the info on Widemore and told him it’s his now…why is Ben still calling the shots in the future (a.k.a. Sayid and the “list”)?

    4. IMO, Michael is probably the man on the ship, it would come as a shock to Locke and most of the other Losties, you have to look at it from that perspective…not a shock to us because we know he’s supposed to appear again this season

  460. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="194271"][quote comment="194270"][quote comment="194267"][quote comment="193966"]What Ben told John must be a whopper. Why else would John let him go. The same guy who shot him and left him for dead because he was jealous?[/quote]

    I haven’t seen anyone suggest the following yet: Perhaps Locke didn’t let Ben go…we never saw the actual conversation that supposedly was powerful enough to change Locke’s mind. I think it is possible that Locke was overpowered and we won’t see this until later. Was Locke in any of the scenes for the next show?[/quote]

    Doesn’t seem likely seeing as how John was able to beat the crap out of patchy at the drop of a dime. Besides, overpowering isn’t Ben’s way. Now, Ben might have held something over John to let him go. You know, like something John feels strongly about.[/quote]

    O.K. John has been completely hoodwinked by Ben at least once before; he was embarrassed publicly when he lead the group to see Jacob’s house and it wasn’t there; he knew that Ben was working on him again (when he threw the breakfast tray against the wall); and now he falls for whatever Ben tells him and release him. It must something pretty powerful. It seems that Locke had been really stoked after Walt spoke to him and he left the body pit. Now he has pathetically returned to the guy who was unable to shoot the undercover cop at the marijuana farm.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    This is why I think that Walt is Bens man on the boat. Locke threw a knife into Naomi’s back because Walt told him to. He has had a connection with Walt since the plane landed. He told Walt about his miracal in the first few days on the island and he associates Walt with the island and Jacob.
    The story we didn’t hear Ben tell Locke may have included what Walt’s connection to the island is and why he is special. It may not be the truth, or all of the truth, but it would convince Locke. Ben tells him “boat people bad”, taller ghost Walt told him “boat people bad.” Ben had said that Locke didn’t have a plan and that Ben did. He probabley also sharred his plan with Locke. The version that would make Locke cooroporate.
    It would be a lot harder to sway Locke with anyone else who is still alive being on the boat.

  461. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="194275"][quote comment="194252"]The creators have stated that once someone dies, they are dead for good. That includes John’s dad and Ecko.[/quote]

    Well now, here is a question. Did we actually SEE Locke’s dad die? I mean Locke was shot through and through and miraculously survived and they share DNA. I know Sawyer shot Locke’s dad, but we only saw a sack with a man shaped weight inside it after the fact.

    And as for Mr. Eko. Did he actually die? I sort of remember him kind of disintegrating from the smoke monster. (Maybe I am wrong.) If that IS the case, who KNOWS what that means.

    : ) P[/quote]
    They burried him after retriving his “Jesus stick.”

  462. Circus Mom says:

    I forgot to mention, Walt can be places where he is not supposed to be. He could find out more on the boat and would have a way to communicate with Ben.
    Since I beleive he may have caused his mothers death, perhaps he killed Michael too. We may see the flashback of Walt throwing Michael off the small boat before being picked up by the freighter. I hope not but it is possible.
    Isn’t it time to see Vincent again?

  463. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194275"]
    Did we actually SEE Locke’s dad die?
    [/quote]
    We saw Sawyer strangle him, Adam Seward (Kevin Tighe) to death in “The Brig”, while Locke waited outside. I am going w/ a YES. We did actually SEE Locke’s (conman) dad die.

    [quote comment="194267"]
    I haven’t seen anyone suggest… Perhaps Locke didn’t let Ben go… I think it is possible that Locke was overpowered and we won’t see this until later.
    [/quote]
    Although I like the concept, because tunnels under the house may have let Others in to aid Ben, why would Ben trot to another house with sheets and towels and a “see you at dinner” call to Fric & Frac play horseshoes? Seems he’d escape or lock down his house. Bit of a stretch there with Ben re-exposing himself to capture. Hurley & Sawyer would surely check with Locke (immediately) to get the scoop on the Ben reprieve.

  464. m3ll0w says:

    [quote comment="193029"]2. It’s Sayid! Ben tells Locke to sit down. It’s obviously someone Locke is close too. I’m thinking he wouldn’t necessarily need to sit down to hear it is Michael, but he sure would need to sit down if it’s Sayid! Ben is a total genius and has had everything planned all along, has his claws in all of them. Or maybe not genius, just been able to time travel? He’s managed to get his claws into Sayid. Based on the flashforwards, he for sure got his claws in Sayid and looks like Jack and Kate, too.

    I don’t think that it’s Micheal either but it would be a nice twist is Sayid was somehow contacted by Ben and is now reporting to him somehow from the boat…I do however think that Ben has something on him..in the flash forwards its not exactly like Sayid and Ben are skipping and holding hands..he is doing Ben’s dirty work for a reason..we just need to find out what this is?[/quote]

    He wouldn’t need to sit down to hear that it is Micheal; but he would need to sit down to hear that it is WALT! As all the true lost fans know, John has a strange, yet stronge, and unsual bond that no one can explain with Walt. Micheal saw it from the very beginning. Walt can do things that no one can explain and has been able to for a very long time. Does any one remember the birds from the first season?

  465. m3ll0w says:

    [quote comment="194278"][quote comment="194275"][quote comment="194252"]The creators have stated that once someone dies, they are dead for good. That includes John’s dad and Ecko.[/quote]

    Well now, here is a question. Did we actually SEE Locke’s dad die? I mean Locke was shot through and through and miraculously survived and they share DNA. I know Sawyer shot Locke’s dad, but we only saw a sack with a man shaped weight inside it after the fact.

    And as for Mr. Eko. Did he actually die? I sort of remember him kind of disintegrating from the smoke monster. (Maybe I am wrong.) If that IS the case, who KNOWS what that means.

    : ) P[/quote]
    They burried him after retriving his “Jesus stick.”[/quote]

    James didn’t shoot Anthony, there weren’t any bullets in the gun. He strangled him with a chain, I believe.

  466. GNHUK says:

    I think Juliet is Bens constant, which is why he did so much to get her to the island and why he needs to keep her close.

    When Harper appeared in the jungle it was raining. There is definitley something in this water thing.

  467. intolost says:

    I just mentioned the gas thing cuz this is what the 3rd episode of the season where we’ve seen the bag o’ gas masks.

  468. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194283"]
    He wouldn’t need to sit down to hear that it is Micheal; but he would need to sit down to hear that it is WALT! As all the true lost fans know, John has a strange, yet stronge, and unsual bond that no one can explain with Walt. Micheal saw it from the very beginning. Walt can do things that no one can explain and has been able to for a very long time. Does any one remember the birds from the first season?
    [/quote]
    How about this… This Regina we have heard on the SatPhone is really Ben’s spy. The ‘sit down’ portion of the chat was that his spy on the boat had informed him, before he left the Others, that Mike & Walt are being held prisoner on the freighter and had not gotten back to freedom. Locke would want to sit down for that. Ben was released because he promised Locke he would help get Mike & Walt back (free).
    Now here is the twist. Ben, the man with the never-ending plan, actually sent Mike & Walt towards the freighter, instructing his spy to make sure they were caught.

  469. m3ll0w says:

    [quote comment="193456"][quote comment="193450"]When Ben takes Jules to see Goodwin, she realizes Ben can see the future. He admits he knew Goodiwin was going to die and he wanted it happen, “because you are mine!”…[/quote]

    So if Ben can see the future, and told JUliet u r mine, then he must know that they end up together. Thats a bummer[/quote]

    No he knows they WON’T END UP TOGETHER; that’s why he’s pissed.

  470. m3ll0w says:

    [quote comment="194287"][quote comment="194283"]
    He wouldn’t need to sit down to hear that it is Micheal; but he would need to sit down to hear that it is WALT! As all the true lost fans know, John has a strange, yet stronge, and unsual bond that no one can explain with Walt. Micheal saw it from the very beginning. Walt can do things that no one can explain and has been able to for a very long time. Does any one remember the birds from the first season?
    [/quote]
    How about this… This Regina we have heard on the SatPhone is really Ben’s spy. The ‘sit down’ portion of the chat was that his spy on the boat had informed him, before he left the Others, that Mike & Walt are being held prisoner on the freighter and had not gotten back to freedom. Locke would want to sit down for that. Ben was released because he promised Locke he would help get Mike & Walt back (free).
    Now here is the twist. Ben, the man with the never-ending plan, actually sent Mike & Walt towards the freighter, instructing his spy to make sure they were caught.[/quote]

    That could be possible… because Ben did send them on a heading of 325 or 315, was it? And we all know that not a single compass on that island is any where near right. The only one I would trust would be the one in the chopper because they knew the heading they came in on. Sorry, back to the subject, I truely believe that Micheal and Walt are on that boat.

  471. Rita says:

    Whew! Took me all weekend to get through all the posts (well, I was also busy with my daughter’s bridal shower!) but it was well worth it. I took notes so I would know what was already said, so here’s hoping this isn’t repeating:
    1. I too believe that Walt is Ben’s man on the boat, and that Michael is also on the boat. They left the island on a small, non-ocean worthy boat. Where else would they go? They most likely strayed off course, or even if not, then they still could have had “side effects”. Especially Walt. We have never had more than a glimpse of his “specialness”, even though they have said it many times. What I think happened is this:
    Michael and/or Walt experience the “side effects”. One of them sees the freighter and flags it down. Maybe, like Desmond, they don’t remember who/where they are, so they don’t reveal that they are 815ers. They are taken aboard the freighter and are in a nice padded room somewhere, with nose bleeds. Except that in his “specialness”, Walt is able to wander the ship, help the losties, and communicate with Ben in some way. I think more of an exploration of his “specialness” needs to come into play at some time.

    2. Isn’t it interesting that Daniel knew that you have to stay on his set course headings, or else experience the “side effects”? How many times have the tots (or just him?) traveled back and forth, in order him to discover this truth and this specific heading? Could they have learned all of this from the journal, which wasn’t really research (I wouldn’t think), but just someone’s journal who had experienced the island?

    3. Who ever mentioned that Ben could be Thomas (Claire’s boyfriend), I don’t think so because surely Claire would recognize him, even older.

    4. When Claire asked to speak with Miles, I felt is was mostly a set-up to Ben’s comment to Locke, that people would start questioning his leadership, etc. So in this case, it was Claire, the least likely to question anything, so it made it even worse for Locke, making him more susceptible to whatever else Ben had to say.

    5. As for the video tape, I guess the only reason we would have for believing that all the communications on the island were down would be because Ben said so. Even Mikhail thought they were all down, and was surprised to discover the looking glass station was still operational, and in fact still is (only now, not jammed). There is VERY LIKELY addtional communications still operational as well. Ben said he always has a plan. Can anyone get a screen cap of the “victim” on the tape? Some people have said it looked like Harper, and others said Desmond. Can we see who it is for sure? Ben likely has operatives “on assignment” all over the world. One of them got the video, fed Ben a link, and he recorded it on the Red Sox tape.

    6. I doubt that the tots whom we have seen are evil. Several of you have mentioned that Charlotte seems evil. She seems pretty tender to Dan really, but not in a romantic way. I don’t see her as evil, just cautious and determined to finish her mission (whatever that is). Their boss may be evil, but they aren’t necessarily also evil.

    7. Harper didn’t seem so much jeolous of Juliet, as scared of Ben, for her husband. I got something odd from her during that exchange with Juliet, and ended up thinking that HARPER was the “other woman” (too?), I think SHE had a think for Ben, or maybe was Ben’s former girlfriend/whatver, before Juliet came, and was displaced by Juliet, because she “looks just like her”.

    8. When Juliet said to Ben that he “knew Goodwin would be killed”, I didn’t take that as Ben had definite forsight, or ordered it (from Ana Lucia??) so much as he knew that sooner or later Goodwin would be discovered and killed if he stayed there.

    9. I was wondering that if the “smokie/whisperers” wanted someone dead, why did they need Juliet to do it? “It” has been known to kill before without any help so it’s not likely to have needed Juliet, if killing two people was the whole goal. Personally, I don’t believe that Harper is dead and part of the whisperers/smoke monster. I think she knows the island tunnels and communication systems and has been in contact with Ben in some way. Not sure what they are all up to.

    Well, this is enough for several different posts, so thanks for hearing me out. I would love to hear all of your comments back. Thank you!! Lost is so much fun!

  472. Trixanna says:

    Great post Rita! I always enjoy reading your posts as they are well thought out! Lost IS fun!

  473. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="194291"]
    3. Who ever mentioned that Ben could be Thomas (Claire’s boyfriend), I don’t think so because surely Claire would recognize him,
    quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Great post. I especially liked #3. I’d been looking for a screne cap for two days and your answer should have been so easy and obvious. That is what is great about this site. If we get bogged down we can see a new view.

  474. sector7 says:

    Rita wrote: he knew that sooner or later Goodwin would be discovered and killed if he stayed there.

    How did he know? You’re saying it, just not connecting the obvious. See how sure of himself he his on their date? “His assignment will be over soon. I promise”.

  475. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194302"]Rita wrote: he knew that sooner or later Goodwin would be discovered and killed if he stayed there.

    How did he know? You’re saying it, just not connecting the obvious. See how sure of himself he his on their date? “His assignment will be over soon. I promise”.[/quote]

    I think anyone, even without supernatural abilities, could have forseen that Goodwin would eventually be discovered and killed. Juliet even mentioned that Ethan was already killed. They knew that the tailies were angry at the Others because many of them had been killed or kidnapped, angry enough to kill anyone who they discovered to be an Other. Sooner or later, Goodwin would be discovered and killed. Ben could have brought him back after Ethan was killed, but didn’t because he was waiting for the inevitable.

  476. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194291"]…I doubt that the tots whom we have seen are evil. Several of you have mentioned that Charlotte seems evil. She seems pretty tender to Dan really, but not in a romantic way. I don’t see her as evil, just cautious and determined to finish her mission (whatever that is). Their boss may be evil, but they aren’t necessarily also evil.
    [/quote]
    As much as I dislike Charlotte, I tend to agree with you. She has an erudite air to her… BUT… I have to admit, the Abbadon & Naomi conversation about putting the four freighter tots together seems to lean away from her having evil combat skills, and more towards her being employed for her unique skills as a Cultural Anthropologist… even though we haven’t seen her use those skills yet. Perhaps, once Naomi went missing, Charlotte had to step-up her game and become more Naomi-like. Maybe she put on her Indiana Jones hat… and now we can call Char-Loot. ;)

  477. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="194304"][quote comment="194302"]Rita wrote: he knew that sooner or later Goodwin would be discovered and killed if he stayed there.

    How did he know? You’re saying it, just not connecting the obvious. See how sure of himself he his on their date? “His assignment will be over soon. I promise”.[/quote]

    I think anyone, even without supernatural abilities, could have forseen that Goodwin would eventually be discovered and killed. Juliet even mentioned that Ethan was already killed. They knew that the tailies were angry at the Others because many of them had been killed or kidnapped, angry enough to kill anyone who they discovered to be an Other. Sooner or later, Goodwin would be discovered and killed. Ben could have brought him back after Ethan was killed, but didn’t because he was waiting for the inevitable.[/quote]

    If it was so obvious, why didn’t Ethan and Goodwin know they were running off to be killed? Why not run away and live? Why would Goodwin run to the tail section to die?

  478. shai says:

    wasn’t there another island? remember when kate and sawyer were fleeing from the others.. they got on a raft/boat to get to their island..

  479. shai says:

    I suggest you guys read this.. its by far the most convincing lost theory i’ve read:

    http://timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.htm

  480. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="194352"]I suggest you guys read this.. its by far the most convincing lost theory i’ve read[/quote]

    Gave it a read. Some of it makes sense, but it throws around the course correction a few too many times for me. Basically anything at all that doesn’t make sense is considered to be the work of ‘fate’ course correcting, and the bet about the ‘C’ word is off, I think.

    But an interesting read nontheless, if only because when you read the bits you disagree on, it makes your own ideas clearer to you.

  481. RGS says:

    [quote comment="194322"][quote comment="194304"][quote comment="194302"]Rita wrote: he knew that sooner or later Goodwin would be discovered and killed if he stayed there.

    How did he know? You’re saying it, just not connecting the obvious. See how sure of himself he his on their date? “His assignment will be over soon. I promise”.[/quote]

    I think anyone, even without supernatural abilities, could have forseen that Goodwin would eventually be discovered and killed. Juliet even mentioned that Ethan was already killed. They knew that the tailies were angry at the Others because many of them had been killed or kidnapped, angry enough to kill anyone who they discovered to be an Other. Sooner or later, Goodwin would be discovered and killed. Ben could have brought him back after Ethan was killed, but didn’t because he was waiting for the inevitable.[/quote]

    If it was so obvious, why didn’t Ethan and Goodwin know they were running off to be killed? Why not run away and live? Why would Goodwin run to the tail section to die?[/quote]

    I think Goodwin did have an interest in bringing Ana Lucia into the fold. That would be the reason he would stay around a little longer.

  482. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194322"][quote comment="194304"][quote comment="194302"]Rita wrote: he knew that sooner or later Goodwin would be discovered and killed if he stayed there.

    How did he know? You’re saying it, just not connecting the obvious. See how sure of himself he his on their date? “His assignment will be over soon. I promise”.[/quote]

    I think anyone, even without supernatural abilities, could have forseen that Goodwin would eventually be discovered and killed. Juliet even mentioned that Ethan was already killed. They knew that the tailies were angry at the Others because many of them had been killed or kidnapped, angry enough to kill anyone who they discovered to be an Other. Sooner or later, Goodwin would be discovered and killed. Ben could have brought him back after Ethan was killed, but didn’t because he was waiting for the inevitable.[/quote]

    If it was so obvious, why didn’t Ethan and Goodwin know they were running off to be killed? Why not run away and live? Why would Goodwin run to the tail section to die?[/quote]
    ***********************************

    They follow orders without questions, as soldiers of sorts (or like cult members?). Even if they expect it to result in their deaths. They didn’t even hesitate when Ben told them to go, just turned and ran off. Goodwin had been back and forth, in order to give them the lists of children, what they were wearing etc. Yes he could have run off but he wouldn’t have (and didn’t) because he was unquestioningly following orders from a leader he absolutely believed in.

  483. skweez says:

    [quote comment="194352"]I suggest you guys read this.. its by far the most convincing lost theory i’ve read:

    http://timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.htm%5B/quote%5D

    Very, very interesting. I don’t agree with everything, but it seems that there may be a lot of “truth” in the timeline.

  484. sector7 says:

    Rita, I respect your theories and truly enjoy a good debate. I am simply basing my conclusions on the evidence presented: what is said and what is implied by the characters facial expressions.

  485. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194619"]Rita, I respect your theories and truly enjoy a good debate. I am simply basing my conclusions on the evidence presented: what is said and what is implied by the characters facial expressions.[/quote]
    Me too. I guess we will all have to wait and see! Probably we are all wrong, who knows? But it is fun to speculate and debate. Thanks.

  486. Ruckis says:

    I’m new to the blog but i have a thought and i wanted to share with you and see what you guys think. okay, We know that syid ends up working for ben in the future and we know that syid ended up locked up with ben for a brief moment when he came to drop off miles. What are the odds that syid is bens “guy” on the inside. Ben knew a whole lot about everyone on boat but they also knew alot about him. Ben could have been bluffing about the man on he inside until he found an oppertunity to make it so. Maybe ben knows where syids girl is? but i digress, I also believe that des and jewls die this season which would explain why they have flash backs and not flash forwards. Any thoughts guys?

  487. Ruckis says:

    oh yea, and i KNOW that micheals back this season because theirs alot of talk about familliar faces returning this year and i read somewhere that micheal and walt make a comeback. however i don’t believe their on the boat. i dont believe they ever left. i think they are a big part of the end of the new season. I dont have a good theory for them yet but i know they are in this season. Its a good idea to assume that micheal is bens “man” on the boat but that doesn’t explain walt. what happened to him? Lock said he’s talking to walt on the island right? just more thoughts. thowin it out their to see what bits

  488. skweez says:

    [quote comment="194626"]I’m new to the blog but i have a thought and i wanted to share with you and see what you guys think. okay, We know that syid ends up working for ben in the future and we know that syid ended up locked up with ben for a brief moment when he came to drop off miles. What are the odds that syid is bens “guy” on the inside. Ben knew a whole lot about everyone on boat but they also knew alot about him. Ben could have been bluffing about the man on he inside until he found an oppertunity to make it so. Maybe ben knows where syids girl is? but i digress, I also believe that des and jewls die this season which would explain why they have flash backs and not flash forwards. Any thoughts guys?[/quote]

    Read comment 257…

  489. Tim says:

    So then, when Abadddon meets Hurley at the mental institution, is that actually Smokey too?
    And if so, why doesn’t Smokey know if there are any more people left on the island?
    Does that mean we are misinterpreting who Abaddon is referring to?

  490. Tim says:

    “…So then, when Abadddon meets Hurley at the mental institution, is that actually Smokey too?
    And if so, why doesn’t Smokey know if there are any more people left on the island?
    Does that mean we are misinterpreting who Abaddon is referring to?…”

    Sorry, we went through that many times before. Just trying to determine all of the times Smokey has shown up in human form to talk to various people.

  491. skweez says:

    [quote comment="194638"]So then, when Abadddon meets Hurley at the mental institution, is that actually Smokey too?
    And if so, why doesn’t Smokey know if there are any more people left on the island?
    Does that mean we are misinterpreting who Abaddon is referring to?[/quote]

    No, that was Abaddon, flesh n blood, alive.

  492. Michael says:

    [quote comment="194267"][quote comment="193966"]What Ben told John must be a whopper. Why else would John let him go. The same guy who shot him and left him for dead because he was jealous?[/quote]

    I haven’t seen anyone suggest the following yet: Perhaps Locke didn’t let Ben go…we never saw the actual conversation that supposedly was powerful enough to change Locke’s mind. I think it is possible that Locke was overpowered and we won’t see this until later. Was Locke in any of the scenes for the next show?[/quote]

    I’m thinking there is a reason for Ben telling Locke to sit down other than what he is going to tell him. Maybe what Ben tells him effects locks legs ?

  493. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194626"]I’m new to the blog but i have a thought and i wanted to share with you and see what you guys think. okay, We know that syid ends up working for ben in the future and we know that syid ended up locked up with ben for a brief moment when he came to drop off miles. What are the odds that syid is bens “guy” on the inside. Ben knew a whole lot about everyone on boat but they also knew alot about him. Ben could have been bluffing about the man on he inside until he found an oppertunity to make it so. Maybe ben knows where syids girl is? but i digress, I also believe that des and jewls die this season which would explain why they have flash backs and not flash forwards. Any thoughts guys?[/quote]
    I think it is too early to assume that people who haven’t had flashforwards are for sure going to die. I think D&C didn’t want to give away the O6 too soon so not everyone who makes it has had a flashforward yet, which would give it away. I’m thinking that after the O6 are known, we may start seeing flashforwards for people who stay on the island. That would be cool!

  494. docjock says:

    I thought the link above provided some very reasonable thoughts on the the version of time travel we are being presented. But, without Valenzetti consideration it is incomplete.

    Throw the end of humanity in there as motivation overall, and add the “Adam and Eve” factor for the Others, and you may have something.

    Also, I believe we’ve already met Jacob in “real time.”

  495. Tina says:

    [quote comment="194322"]
    If it was so obvious, why didn’t Ethan and Goodwin know they were running off to be killed? Why not run away and live? Why would Goodwin run to the tail section to die?[/quote]

    Because they were diehard followers of whatever cause/society that Ben was leading and believed wholeheartedly (at least Ethan, maybe Goodwin less) in whatever Ben told them to do.

    The point is that Ben knew that Goodwin’s death was a highly likely possiblity, especially after the news of Ethan’s death. He may even have “known” that Goodwin would die. Either way the likelihood of eliminating Goodwin from the Juliet/Ben/Goodwin triangle was multiplied by sending him on a dangerous recognisance mission.

  496. stupidmop says:

    Ok i know it’s kinda late (and hopefully no one has posted this yet) but just a far fetched theory, what if Walt is Ben’s man on the boat. We know that time behaves differently on the island and off, and also maybe Michael’s “redemption” is that he raises Walt to help the people he turned his back on..just a thought

  497. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    [quote comment="194672"]Ok i know it’s kinda late (and hopefully no one has posted this yet) but just a far fetched theory, what if Walt is Ben’s man on the boat. We know that time behaves differently on the island and off, and also maybe Michael’s “redemption” is that he raises Walt to help the people he turned his back on..just a thought[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Wow. Never thought of that…..in the last 4 minutes. But 200 other posters did. It may be the reason you should at least try to read a few of the posts before you post your theories.

  498. DocH says:

    [quote comment="194666"]
    The point is that Ben knew that Goodwin’s death was a highly likely possiblity, especially after the news of Ethan’s death. He may even have “known” that Goodwin would die. Either way the likelihood of eliminating Goodwin from the Juliet/Ben/Goodwin triangle was multiplied by sending him on a dangerous recognisance mission.[/quote]
    Agree… mostly. The recon (list) mission wasn’t as dangerous as the missions to kidnap kids… where adults started dying… and he had to maintain a “it wasn’t me” posture in front of the mighty Ana & Eko.

  499. RGS says:

    [quote comment="194672"]Ok i know it’s kinda late (and hopefully no one has posted this yet) but just a far fetched theory, what if Walt is Ben’s man on the boat. We know that time behaves differently on the island and off, and also maybe Michael’s “redemption” is that he raises Walt to help the people he turned his back on..just a thought[/quote]

    Just a little late. I originally liked this theory a lot, but then I got to thinking, why would Walt want to help Ben, his former kidnapper? How would he, a little boy, be allowed to be on the ship?

    If it is Michael on the other hand, there could be something Ben’s holding over Mike…namely maybe there is something funny about Walt’s behavior post island. Thus, he’s gotta help Ben to help Walt.

    I’m skeptical Walt would want to help Ben because he was very relieved to be reunited with his dad, I’m sure they wanted the get the hell outta dodge. At that age, for someone to kidnap you, the way that they went about it, just doesn’t make me think it is likely. I therefore withdraw my endorsement of that theory.

  500. skweez says:

    [quote comment="194661"]I thought the link above provided some very reasonable thoughts on the the version of time travel we are being presented. But, without Valenzetti consideration it is incomplete.

    Throw the end of humanity in there as motivation overall, and add the “Adam and Eve” factor for the Others, and you may have something.

    Also, I believe we’ve already met Jacob in “real time.”[/quote]

    What does that mean, “real time”?

  501. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194688"][quote comment="194672"]Ok i know it’s kinda late (and hopefully no one has posted this yet) but just a far fetched theory, what if Walt is Ben’s man on the boat. We know that time behaves differently on the island and off, and also maybe Michael’s “redemption” is that he raises Walt to help the people he turned his back on..just a thought[/quote]

    Just a little late. I originally liked this theory a lot, but then I got to thinking, why would Walt want to help Ben, his former kidnapper? How would he, a little boy, be allowed to be on the ship?

    If it is Michael on the other hand, there could be something Ben’s holding over Mike…namely maybe there is something funny about Walt’s behavior post island. Thus, he’s gotta help Ben to help Walt.

    I’m skeptical Walt would want to help Ben because he was very relieved to be reunited with his dad, I’m sure they wanted the get the hell outta dodge. At that age, for someone to kidnap you, the way that they went about it, just doesn’t make me think it is likely. I therefore withdraw my endorsement of that theory.[/quote]

    ********************************
    Hey RGS: I like where you are going with this idea. I definitely do think that both Michael and Walt are on the freighter. I had been thinking that Walt might be the “man”, but I think you are onto something with the idea that Walt’s behavior may be “funny”, from the “side effects” while trying to leave the island. I could see Walt freaking out on the boat (like Desmond) and then Michael flags down help from the freighter. Once aboard, Ben could have somehow communicated with Michael that he could help Walt, if Michael helps him (who knows how Ben does his communicating??). I agree that neither of them would help willingly.

  502. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="194628"][quote comment="194626"]I’m new to the blog but i have a thought and i wanted to share with you and see what you guys think. okay, We know that syid ends up working for ben in the future and we know that syid ended up locked up with ben for a brief moment when he came to drop off miles. What are the odds that syid is bens “guy” on the inside. Ben knew a whole lot about everyone on boat but they also knew alot about him. Ben could have been bluffing about the man on he inside until he found an oppertunity to make it so. Maybe ben knows where syids girl is? but i digress, I also believe that des and jewls die this season which would explain why they have flash backs and not flash forwards. Any thoughts guys?[/quote]

    Read comment 257…[/quote]

    READ COMMENT 249

  503. lost4ever says:

    7. Harper didn’t seem so much jeolous of Juliet, as scared of Ben, for her husband. I got something odd from her during that exchange with Juliet, and ended up thinking that HARPER was the “other woman” (too?), I think SHE had a think for Ben, or maybe was Ben’s former girlfriend/whatver, before Juliet came, and was displaced by Juliet, because she “looks just like her”.

    Wasn’t the title “the Other Woman” referring to Juliet and how the others on the island saw her?

  504. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194698"]7. Harper didn’t seem so much jeolous of Juliet, as scared of Ben, for her husband. I got something odd from her during that exchange with Juliet, and ended up thinking that HARPER was the “other woman” (too?), I think SHE had a think for Ben, or maybe was Ben’s former girlfriend/whatver, before Juliet came, and was displaced by Juliet, because she “looks just like her”.

    Wasn’t the title “the Other Woman” referring to Juliet and how the others on the island saw her?[/quote]

    Sure, but as with the other titles (ie Eggtown, etc.) they have more than one meaning. An obvious one and one or more subtle ones. Just thought this might make sense as one of the subtle ones.

  505. JamieGirl says:

    When Locke asks Ben to disclose the identity of Ben’s man on the freighter,Ben agrees to tell him, but warns that he “might want to sit down.” (like in a wheelchair?). I don’t know…

  506. Missy says:

    I finally figured it out! Ever since we met Minkowski I’ve been trying to place why he is so familiar to me…he played Phoebe’s boyfriend on an episode or two of Friends! Whew! I feel better now.

  507. Toeknee says:

    Whispers….

    You can here the forward and reversed audio here:

    http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/03/whispers-in-jungle.html

    In the reversed audio, it sounds like a male voice says something like “Sarah is somebody coming”

  508. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="194733"]Whispers….

    You can here the forward and reversed audio here:

    http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/03/whispers-in-jungle.html

    In the reversed audio, it sounds like a male voice says something like “Sarah is somebody coming”[/quote]

    Actually I take that back – I heard that in the forward audio, which is in the window on the right side at that link. Reverse audio is on the left side.

  509. KWeed says:

    [quote comment="193067"]Fresh thought – show title – The Other Woman.

    We all think that Juliet fooling around with married Goodwin is – the other woman -. But ToeKnee made me think (there is a first) that “the other woman” is the female that Ben is reminded of by Juliet.[/quote]

    I think Juliet is Jack’s “Other Woman”. Remember that Jack said he loves Kate.

  510. CAG says:

    [quote comment="194694"][quote comment="194688"][quote comment="194672"]Ok i know it’s kinda late (and hopefully no one has posted this yet) but just a far fetched theory, what if Walt is Ben’s man on the boat. We know that time behaves differently on the island and off, and also maybe Michael’s “redemption” is that he raises Walt to help the people he turned his back on..just a thought[/quote]

    Just a little late. I originally liked this theory a lot, but then I got to thinking, why would Walt want to help Ben, his former kidnapper? How would he, a little boy, be allowed to be on the ship?

    If it is Michael on the other hand, there could be something Ben’s holding over Mike…namely maybe there is something funny about Walt’s behavior post island. Thus, he’s gotta help Ben to help Walt.

    I’m skeptical Walt would want to help Ben because he was very relieved to be reunited with his dad, I’m sure they wanted the get the hell outta dodge. At that age, for someone to kidnap you, the way that they went about it, just doesn’t make me think it is likely. I therefore withdraw my endorsement of that theory.[/quote]

    ********************************
    Hey RGS: I like where you are going with this idea. I definitely do think that both Michael and Walt are on the freighter. I had been thinking that Walt might be the “man”, but I think you are onto something with the idea that Walt’s behavior may be “funny”, from the “side effects” while trying to leave the island. I could see Walt freaking out on the boat (like Desmond) and then Michael flags down help from the freighter. Once aboard, Ben could have somehow communicated with Michael that he could help Walt, if Michael helps him (who knows how Ben does his communicating??). I agree that neither of them would help willingly.[/quote]
    ——————————
    I think this is good! Maybe Walt is affected by the time thing, and he’s popping back and forth from the freighter and the time where Ben had him prisoner, Michael is feeding him info and he’s feeding it to Ben in the past!

  511. DocH says:

    From above:
    …but I think you are onto something with the idea that Walt’s behavior may be “funny”, from the “side effects” while trying to leave the island. I could see Walt freaking out on the boat (like Desmond) and then Michael flags down help from the freighter.
    ***************
    So we should expect to see Walt strapped down like Minkowski, getting ready to have Maraschino cherry juice pop out of his nose, and then croak in the next few episodes. That means Des is dead in a few weeks, in freighter-time. Just asking – not projecting.

  512. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="194711"][quote comment="194698"]7. Harper didn’t seem so much jeolous of Juliet, as scared of Ben, for her husband. I got something odd from her during that exchange with Juliet, and ended up thinking that HARPER was the “other woman” (too?), I think SHE had a think for Ben, or maybe was Ben’s former girlfriend/whatver, before Juliet came, and was displaced by Juliet, because she “looks just like her”.

    Wasn’t the title “the Other Woman” referring to Juliet and how the others on the island saw her?[/quote]

    Sure, but as with the other titles (ie Eggtown, etc.) they have more than one meaning. An obvious one and one or more subtle ones. Just thought this might make sense as one of the subtle ones.[/quote]

    I guess i forgot about the Eggtown double meanings….what were they again?

  513. sector7 says:

    I don’t think Walt is on the boat. This does not explain how he was taller, and standing over John telling him to get to work. We know Walt is special right? He was displaying special qualities before he even came to the island. Walt can be somewhere he’s not supposed to be. Des or George are nothing like Walt. Only one that has abilities close to Walt’s is Jacob.

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?

  514. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="194153"]and.. i also think that #5 and #6 of the oceanic 6 are walt and michael.. they were on the plane and probably left the island..[/quote]

    if they are supposed to reveal the last 2 this week than it obviously is two people tied to the same story line…ala michael and walt, jin and sun, or rose and bernard, My bet though is on jin and sun because I think sun needs to get off the island because she needs to give birth to stay alive

  515. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="194252"]I guess i forgot about the Eggtown double meanings….what were they again?[/quote]

    1) The last of the eggs (Locke killed the chicken) for Ben’s breakfast (then he fed a DIFFERENT kind of EGG to Miles!)

    2) Kate’s fertilized (or not) egg

    3) Eggtown is apparently an old traveling salesman term used to describe a smaller town that is so poor the townspeople try to trade fresh eggs for goods. Not sure quite how that ties in to the episode (maybe the bartering going on among the characters), but it was very interesting information!

    HTH
    : ) P

  516. Mikey says:

    I can’t wait for this week’s episode mainly so that we can end 2 discussions that have dominated this blog for weeks: who is ben’s spy and who are the remaining O6’ers. The argument is starting to bore me.

    However, it would be rude to post this without adding something to the conversation. I agree with the theory that Michael is the one on the freighter. It’s the only theory I’ve heard that makes any sense. Clearly, it was Ben’s spy that opened the medical bay door in the Constant, so that would eliminate Sayid. No one has ever been brought back from the dead on this show, so I don’t see how it could be Eko or Charlie. The theory about it actually being Ben or someone else currently on the island is an interesting one, but that would take things into an ultra-surreal territory that LOST has avoided up until this point so I don’t buy it. I had entertained the idea of Walt being the spy but I have been convinced by RGS’s post #500. Primarily, I’m interested to learn what Michael and Walt have been up to since we last saw them. I’m not going to get into my theories with that.

    I also agree with the theory that Sun and Jin are the remaining O6’ers. I just feel like things have been set up for this to happen. That’s not really a good argument. When I consider all the other Losties, Sun and Jin are the only ones that make sense to me as far as getting off the island. But again, the interesting thing will be what is revealed in their flash-forward about what their life is like off the island.

    Digressing slightly, most serious fans of LOST can predict these big “shock and awe” moments that are hinted at but sometimes it is more fun to think about how the story and characters will develop and try to predict some revelations that no one saw coming (like the end of the Economist or Eggtown). I have my theories and look forward to sharing them later when I have more time. I’ve already gone on long enough.

    I’ve been reading this blog since the new season started but haven’t really posted anything. I really enjoy thinking about everyone’s theories and perspectives on this highly addictive program. Thank you all for keeping me occupied while I’m at my boring 3rd shift job.

  517. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194782"]From above:
    …but I think you are onto something with the idea that Walt’s behavior may be “funny”, from the “side effects” while trying to leave the island. I could see Walt freaking out on the boat (like Desmond) and then Michael flags down help from the freighter.
    ***************
    So we should expect to see Walt strapped down like Minkowski, getting ready to have Maraschino cherry juice pop out of his nose, and then croak in the next few episodes. That means Des is dead in a few weeks, in freighter-time. Just asking – not projecting.[/quote]

    Hey DocH, Des won’t die, he has his constant now! Walt probably does too, since his dad is with him now, was on the island, and was in his early life and could be his constant. (this isn’t to say that I buy into EVERYONE needing a constant, but if Walt is time tripping he might need one).

  518. Rita says:

    [quote comment="194880"]I can’t wait for this week’s episode mainly so that we can end 2 discussions that have dominated this blog for weeks: who is ben’s spy and who are the remaining O6’ers. The argument is starting to bore me.

    .[/quote]

    I don’t think we will learn about Ben’s man on the “boat” until next week. This week we should learn who the last 2 O6ers are. Can’t wait!! (Personally, I agree that it could be Jin and Sun)

  519. Lins says:

    [quote comment="194813"][quote comment="194252"]
    3) Eggtown is apparently an old traveling salesman term used to describe a smaller town that is so poor the townspeople try to trade fresh eggs for goods. Not sure quite how that ties in to the episode (maybe the bartering going on among the characters), but it was very interesting information!

    HTH
    : ) P[/quote]

    It basically meant that if you were a salesman and you were headed for a town and someone told you not to go there because it was an “eggtown” you were pretty much screwed either way. Either they lied to you and you could have made a lot of money there or they’re telling the truth and if you do go there you’ll lose everything. Either way it’s a bad deal. Kind of makes sense if you think about it in terms of Locke’s new “camp”, have the people that chose to stay there made a good choice or bad choice?

  520. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="194736"][quote comment="194733"]Whispers….

    You can here the forward and reversed audio here:

    http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/03/whispers-in-jungle.html

    In the reversed audio, it sounds like a male voice says something like “Sarah is somebody coming”[/quote]

    Actually I take that back – I heard that in the forward audio, which is in the window on the right side at that link. Reverse audio is on the left side.[/quote]
    Thanks for the heads up!

  521. blb53081 says:

    Could there be a possibility of Ben being Ben’s man on the boat. If time moves slower on the island, wouldnt that mean “real” time off the island has elasped at a faster rate. Maybe Ben is able to manipulate it so he can be both be on the island and the boat.

    That would definetly be something I would need to sit down to hear….

  522. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="194000"][quote comment="193903"]
    Doc, do you know we can find video, audio or a transcript of when Damon said no time travel. I would like to see if he was using “Clinton speak”. Maybe he meant up that point in the story or maybe he meant no travel in the more popular sense, because I think he was responding to someone asking about a time machine.
    [/quote]
    I think I lumped PURGATORY in w/ TIME TRAVEL.
    They said no PURGATORY, which is the suspension of time, where nothing and everything happens at once, AND not at all. Time travel has been a running tease (my read) and they use it as their scientific catch-all phrase to hide behind, when they talk about what they haven’t disclosed yet. They joke, they deflect and they hesitate. Classic tells of fibbers. They also use the word “incarnation”. I hate long posts too. Apologies.
    [/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hammer – I’ve spent the last two days scouring the internet nonstop, no sleeping, no eating, no work, no family time – and I’ve finally uncoverd the source of the “no time travel” quote.

    Here’s the link to an interview with Damon Lindeloff:

    http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/handheld/30246.html

    And here’s the quote:
    “As the show progresses, he added, it won’t venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. “We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact,” he said in an interview. “I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel.” ”

    Now, keep in mind these statements were made in the middle of season 1, so when he uses the word “yet”, perhaps that could be interpreted as meaning that his statements only applied to what had been televised up to that point. But more likely, people have just taken the last 5 words and assumed that would be applicable to the entire duration of the show. Also, “too far into science fiction” and “firmly esconced in the world of science fact” are open to interpretation as well.

  523. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195058"]
    Hammer – I’ve spent the last two days scouring the internet nonstop, no sleeping, no eating, no work, no family time – and I’ve finally uncoverd the source of the “no time travel” quote.

    Here’s the link to an interview with Damon Lindeloff:

    http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/handheld/30246.html

    And here’s the quote:
    “As the show progresses, he added, it won’t venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. “We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact,” he said in an interview. “I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel.” ”

    Now, keep in mind these statements were made in the middle of season 1, so when he uses the word “yet”, perhaps that could be interpreted as meaning that his statements only applied to what had been televised up to that point. But more likely, people have just taken the last 5 words and assumed that would be applicable to the entire duration of the show. Also, “too far into science fiction” and “firmly esconced in the world of science fact” are open to interpretation as well.[/quote]
    Thank you ToeKnee, this is what I was looking for!

    I def. felt that he meant “so far” and I remembered wrong about the “time machine”, he said “space ship”.

    Now, you can go back to your regular life. :)

  524. vavila says:

    [quote comment="194789"]I don’t think Walt is on the boat. This does not explain how he was taller, and standing over John telling him to get to work. We know Walt is special right? He was displaying special qualities before he even came to the island. Walt can be somewhere he’s not supposed to be. Des or George are nothing like Walt. Only one that has abilities close to Walt’s is Jacob.

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?[/quote]

    I like your theory and the fact that it deals with teleportation – something that i have not heard a very sound and comprehensive theory on. I don’t know if Walt can teleport, but you are right that Jacob can (and i guess this skill was somehow used to teleport polar bear). I have a couple of questions. If your theory is correct (that Walt can teleport like Jacob), then what do you think is the relationship between them two? Also, what do you think is Jacobs relationship with Ben and how Walt fits into it?

    Let’s say Walt has teleportation abilities (i’m not convinced yet, but i know he’s ‘special’ because of bird scene before the island), Alpert does not age, Locke and Rose got healed -these are some clear examples of special abilities/attributes. If all of them have these social abilities, then do you think Ben – seemingly the leader of ‘others’ including the non-aging Alpert – might have some ‘special’ abilities apart from beign able to communicate with Jacob (note manipulation doesn’t count as special)? If not then why is he the ‘leader’ or is he the ‘leader’?

  525. vavila says:

    [quote comment="194276"]Re-watched and noticed a few things:

    3. If Ben has given Locke all the info on Widemore and told him it’s his now…why is Ben still calling the shots in the future (a.k.a. Sayid and the “list”)?

    [/quote]

    I’m not sure if Ben gave Locke all the info, but i do think that Ben and Locke will join forces to some extent and Ben may be ‘calling the shots in the future (a.k.a. Sayid…)’ off the island while Locke will remain ‘in charge’ on the island: Locke is already losties’ leader and we know that others quite like him too….

  526. JAC says:

    So lets think about Libby for a minute:

    We can assume that it wasn’t by accident that she happened to run into Desmond and plant this idea about her dead husband’s sailboat in his head, and that she had a lot to do with his getting shipwrecked on the island.

    We know she had this weird mental hospital encounter with Hurley, which he couldn’t really remember, and that she was trying to get close to him somehow (or maybe they were really in love, who knows?).

    Now I’m not sure how this works in the timeline of the story arc (or if we can even count on that anymore), but in that line from Harper regarding “of course he likes you, you look like her” to Juliette, could she have been referring to Libby? Did Libby know that it was Ben locked up in the hatch back when he was “Henry Gale”? Was she a “double agent” type between Widmore and Ben?

  527. Rita says:

    [quote comment="195085"]So lets think about Libby for a minute:

    We can assume that it wasn’t by accident that she happened to run into Desmond and plant this idea about her dead husband’s sailboat in his head, and that she had a lot to do with his getting shipwrecked on the island.

    We know she had this weird mental hospital encounter with Hurley, which he couldn’t really remember, and that she was trying to get close to him somehow (or maybe they were really in love, who knows?).

    Now I’m not sure how this works in the timeline of the story arc (or if we can even count on that anymore), but in that line from Harper regarding “of course he likes you, you look like her” to Juliette, could she have been referring to Libby? Did Libby know that it was Ben locked up in the hatch back when he was “Henry Gale”? Was she a “double agent” type between Widmore and Ben?[/quote]

    Interesting theory. I also note that it was quite a coincidence that Libby never actually met Desmond on the island. He had run off before the tailies joined the losties, and she had died before he came back. Don’t know how that fits anything, just a weird timing thing, so he never got to say “hey, weren’t you the one who gave me this dang boat???”.

  528. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="195080"][quote comment="194789"]I don’t think Walt is on the boat. This does not explain how he was taller, and standing over John telling him to get to work. We know Walt is special right? He was displaying special qualities before he even came to the island. Walt can be somewhere he’s not supposed to be. Des or George are nothing like Walt. Only one that has abilities close to Walt’s is Jacob.

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?[/quote]

    I like your theory and the fact that it deals with teleportation – something that i have not heard a very sound and comprehensive theory on. I don’t know if Walt can teleport, but you are right that Jacob can (and i guess this skill was somehow used to teleport polar bear). I have a couple of questions. If your theory is correct (that Walt can teleport like Jacob), then what do you think is the relationship between them two? Also, what do you think is Jacobs relationship with Ben and how Walt fits into it?

    Let’s say Walt has teleportation abilities (i’m not convinced yet, but i know he’s ‘special’ because of bird scene before the island), Alpert does not age, Locke and Rose got healed -these are some clear examples of special abilities/attributes. If all of them have these social abilities, then do you think Ben – seemingly the leader of ‘others’ including the non-aging Alpert – might have some ‘special’ abilities apart from beign able to communicate with Jacob (note manipulation doesn’t count as special)? If not then why is he the ‘leader’ or is he the ‘leader’?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think all theories are possible until proven otherwise. A few facts: Jacob was visible for a split second, invisible the next; Jacob’s cabin was in one place one second, and in another place the next second; Walt has suddenly appeared in places mysteriously. This is a world where several character’s minds can see flashes of the future and travel to the past. Jacob is definitely more powerful than that and Walt appears to be that powerful as well based the way he is treated.

    I don’t think Walt and Jacob have a relationship as of yet, they are two people with special abilities that have been brought to the island for a reason yet unknown. Ben is Jacob’s chosen leader for his people but events are implying Jacob might be ready for a change from Ben. I don’t think Jacob’s people would follow Ben unless he had a special ability, which I have stated previously I believe Ben has the same ability as Des. This explains why Ben is able to stay a step ahead of everyone.

  529. skweez says:

    [quote comment="195085"]So lets think about Libby for a minute:

    We can assume that it wasn’t by accident that she happened to run into Desmond and plant this idea about her dead husband’s sailboat in his head, and that she had a lot to do with his getting shipwrecked on the island.

    We know she had this weird mental hospital encounter with Hurley, which he couldn’t really remember, and that she was trying to get close to him somehow (or maybe they were really in love, who knows?).

    Now I’m not sure how this works in the timeline of the story arc (or if we can even count on that anymore), but in that line from Harper regarding “of course he likes you, you look like her” to Juliette, could she have been referring to Libby? Did Libby know that it was Ben locked up in the hatch back when he was “Henry Gale”? Was she a “double agent” type between Widmore and Ben?

    Rita wrote Interesting theory. I also note that it was quite a coincidence that Libby never actually met Desmond on the island. He had run off before the tailies joined the losties, and she had died before he came back. Don’t know how that fits anything, just a weird timing thing, so he never got to say “hey, weren’t you the one who gave me this dang boat???”.

    [/quote]

    It seems that that was much more than a slight coincidence. Did Libby ever say where she was going? I think she may be part of the “new” Dharma (Widmore/Abaddon)

  530. Rita says:

    When Walt first appeared to Shannon, while still a captive of the Others, he seemed scared and tried to give Shannon some kind of message. When he appeared to Locke, after he had “left the island”, he appeared confident and sure of himself. Also more substantial physically (not just a quick here and gone image). He was able to speak clearly and give a complete message. If he is using his “abilities”, then he is developing them over time. I like the theory that someone stated that the man on the “boat/freigter/ship” could be a time traveling Walt. Daniel mentioned that the time shifting could be hours or years (so why not weeks?). It makes some kind of sense that it could be Walt coming back and forth to the time when he was in the Other’s camp, and giving Ben information. So why would he do that? Who knows what happened to him during that time, and maybe it is Michael that is in trouble (side effects?) and Ben told Walt he could help him, for some information. Any theory is just “out there” until we get some more information. Should be interesting!

  531. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195091"]When Walt first appeared to Shannon, while still a captive of the Others, he seemed scared and tried to give Shannon some kind of message. [/quote] He was also soaking wet as if under water…

  532. Lins says:

    Someone had mentioned that Walt and Michael’s boat headed toward the freighter and that there was a possibility that they had to change their names so that they wouldn’t be recognized as survivors of O815. What if Walt became Brandon…got friendly with Minkowski and convinced him to try to go to the island, went a little crazy and it’s really Walt that’s dead. Not sure about the timeline of when Brandon died and Walt appeared to Locke so there are lots of holes in this theory!! Honestly though, how seriously would the freighter folks take a kid, how much would he really be able to do for Ben? Again, not sure what kind of work he has been doing, maybe it’s the kind of stuff that only an innocent kid could get away with…like I said, lots of holes.

  533. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195102"]Honestly though, how seriously would the freighter folks take a kid, how much would he really be able to do for Ben? Again, not sure what kind of work he has been doing, maybe it’s the kind of stuff that only an innocent kid could get away with…like I said, lots of holes.[/quote]
    I am not endorsing or denying your theory…but THESE folks would take Walt (especially if he can show his abilities to them) serious at any age because they are aware of who they are dealing with and that the island isn’t a normal place or situation.

  534. DocH says:

    I wrote: So we should expect to see Walt strapped down like Minkowski, getting ready to have Maraschino cherry juice pop out of his nose, and then croak in the next few episodes. That means Des is dead in a few weeks, in freighter-time. Just asking – not projecting.

    Rita wrote: Hey DocH, Des won’t die, he has his constant now! Walt probably does too, since his dad is with him now, was on the island, and was in his early life and could be his constant. (this isn’t to say that I buy into EVERYONE needing a constant, but if Walt is time tripping he might need one).

    My turn: I don’t know that a PERSON equates to a “Constant”. I think an EVENT is more likely the constant to our astral travelers. A specific occurrence that benchmarks, aligns, will align, or ‘course correct” the perceived timeline(s).

    For Eloise it was “The Maze” that failed to be her constant. She died, maybe she wasn’t supposed to run it correctly, or run it in front of Desmond, or a minute later/sooner.

    For Des the Constant wasn’t Penny, it was the event, the well timed Phone Call.

    We see that Daniel wrote Des will be his Constant. I don’t think the man, Des, physically will be his Constant, but something Des is supposed to say or do, or not say or not do, will lead to Daniels’ benchmark EVENT.

    What event did or did not happen to kill Minkowski. Never meet Des? Brandon was supposed to ___? Maybe just having Sayid getting to the freighter killed Minkowski?
    (hmmm… Sayid sent thru time by Ben as a… “Time Assassin”… cue eerie music.)

  535. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="195089"][quote comment="195085"]So lets think about Libby for a minute:

    We can assume that it wasn’t by accident that she happened to run into Desmond and plant this idea about her dead husband’s sailboat in his head, and that she had a lot to do with his getting shipwrecked on the island.

    We know she had this weird mental hospital encounter with Hurley, which he couldn’t really remember, and that she was trying to get close to him somehow (or maybe they were really in love, who knows?).

    Now I’m not sure how this works in the timeline of the story arc (or if we can even count on that anymore), but in that line from Harper regarding “of course he likes you, you look like her” to Juliette, could she have been referring to Libby? Did Libby know that it was Ben locked up in the hatch back when he was “Henry Gale”? Was she a “double agent” type between Widmore and Ben?

    Rita wrote Interesting theory. I also note that it was quite a coincidence that Libby never actually met Desmond on the island. He had run off before the tailies joined the losties, and she had died before he came back. Don’t know how that fits anything, just a weird timing thing, so he never got to say “hey, weren’t you the one who gave me this dang boat???”.

    [/quote]

    It seems that that was much more than a slight coincidence. Did Libby ever say where she was going? I think she may be part of the “new” Dharma (Widmore/Abaddon)[/quote]

    Libby has been seen running into many losties. I think a part of the show is that nothing is a coincidence. How about the psychic that influenced Claire and Ecko to get on the plane? More than one person trying to set-up these events implies a conspiracy IMO.

  536. Hammer says:

    Maybe Doc, but we were lead to believe that Penny was his constant because when Dan told him what he needed he said “Penny”. If you add that to Dan writing that Des is his constant, one CAN conclude that a person can be a constant (though maybe doesn’t have to be).

  537. sector7 says:

    Another character I find suspicious in a similar way to Libby is Cindy the flight attendant. Remember when the tailies where on the beach and Cindy said she remembered everyone from the plane except “going to the bathroom guy”? Why didn’t she say something about not seeing Goodwin on the plane? Then she disappears right before they make it to the survivors camp and then we see her smiling and happy, living with the others… C’mon guys –this implies she was a planted spy for Ben on the plane.

  538. ADP says:

    [quote comment="192954"]Okay, so when they “replayed” Juliet’s flashback to the scene where Ben tells Goodwin to go to the beach and pretend to be a survivor, was it the SAME scene as when it first aired? Did they infuse Harper into the scene? Did they re-shoot it? It was very accurate to my recollection, but who out there has the DVD’s and can watch the first time we saw that flashback?

    : ) P[/quote]
    In the original scene, I thought Ben said “good one” when flight 815 crashed. They did not show Goodwin then, only Ben telling Ethan what to do. Now we know he really said “Goodwin”, not “good one”.

  539. Lins says:

    [quote comment="195107"]My turn: I don’t know that a PERSON equates to a “Constant”. I think an EVENT is more likely the constant to our astral travelers. A specific occurrence that benchmarks, aligns, will align, or ‘course correct” the perceived timeline(s).

    For Eloise it was “The Maze” that failed to be her constant. She died, maybe she wasn’t supposed to run it correctly, or run it in front of Desmond, or a minute later/sooner.

    For Des the Constant wasn’t Penny, it was the event, the well timed Phone Call.

    We see that Daniel wrote Des will be his Constant. I don’t think the man, Des, physically will be his Constant, but something Des is supposed to say or do, or not say or not do, will lead to Daniels’ benchmark EVENT.

    [/quote]

    Des asked Dan if a person could be his constant…I don’t remember his exact reply, but he did say that it had to be something he really really cared about. For Des, that could be Penny, just Penny, not the specific phone call or an event, but the fact that he cared so much for Penny. For Dan, I think it was the event of meeting Des on the island someday. That meeting and that event would be be something that Dan would really care about IMO.

  540. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    What event did or did not happen to kill Minkowski. Never meet Des? Brandon was supposed to ___? Maybe just having Sayid getting to the freighter killed Minkowski?
    (hmmm… Sayid sent thru time by Ben as a… “Time Assassin”… cue eerie music.)[/quote]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That Ben, he’s sure one smart dude! ; ) I actually am starting to really like him.

  541. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195058"] …I’ve spent the last two days scouring the internet nonstop…
    “… But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel.”
    … keep in mind these statements were made in the middle of season 1, so when he uses the word “yet”, perhaps that could be interpreted as meaning that his statements only applied to what had been televised up to that point… Also, “too far into science fiction” and “firmly ensconced in the world of science fact” are open to interpretation as well.
    _____________
    Good effort. Thnx. I hate it when I can’t immediately back a claim, or, have some immediately disprove a claim. Either way, s’all good.
    I quit looking for this one after 8 hours. I think we need to buy a Cray super-computer to start tracking this show for us… as we remain “firmly ensconsed” – in our world of LOST addiction.

  542. Tim says:

    If Michael is Ben’s man on the boat and Jin and Sun are the remaining two of the Oceanic 6, then what happens to Michael that prevents him from being one of the Oceanic survivors (Oceanic 7 or Oceanic 8 if Walt is also there).
    Obviously,getting to the freighter does not guarantee rescue, assuming Jin and Sun are the final 2.

  543. Ruckis says:

    [quote comment="193397"]i don’t remember who commented on the scene when the plane crashes in the flashback but i think they just re-shot it. i don’t remember juliet being surprised when goodwin was chosen but then again that was season 2, right? i might’ve just forgotten or didn’t notice.[/quote]

    I would have to look at my season 3 dvd to be sure, but i’m pretty sure that their was a look exchanged during the scene. If anyone remembers,their was a flash back with juliet in season three where she was laying in bed with goodwin. its only in 4 do we learn he was having an affair. again, not sure about the “glance” but it wouldn’t surprise me.

  544. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="195086"]I also note that it was quite a coincidence that Libby never actually met Desmond on the island. He had run off before the tailies joined the losties, and she had died before he came back. Don’t know how that fits anything, just a weird timing thing, so he never got to say “hey, weren’t you the one who gave me this dang boat???”.[/quote]

    And this ties into the notion that the survivors are regularly divided up into two and three groups (caves vs. beach, hatch vs. non-hatch, raft vs. island, captive vs. free) when major events occur. Some experience these situations, or meet specific characters, others do not. (Yet, oddly, we rarely see them discussing these things when they do get together again!) I believe that these separations play into future storylines in a greater way than is originally obvious.

    You’ve offered the example of Desmond never meeting Libby. We know that Daniel has never met Rousseau, or Locke and most of his followers. Perhaps there is a reason for this – one of them knows Daniel from life before the island. What other characters has fate kept apart on the island? How will that play into things?

    Two days, four hours, fifty-five minutes and eighteen seconds until the enhanced version of “The Other Woman.”

    Anyone know when the next LAA meeting might be? *g*

    : ) P

    : ) P

  545. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195124"]
    Anyone know when the next LAA meeting might be? *g*

    : ) P

    : ) P[/quote]
    Detroit Chapter is 7p Eastern until 7:59p Eastern on Thursdays when the enhanced reruns end. Daily when on hiatus!

  546. Ruckis says:

    [quote comment="195121"]If Michael is Ben’s man on the boat and Jin and Sun are the remaining two of the Oceanic 6, then what happens to Michael that prevents him from being one of the Oceanic survivors (Oceanic 7 or Oceanic 8 if Walt is also there).
    Obviously,getting to the freighter does not guarantee rescue, assuming Jin and Sun are the final 2.[/quote]

    everyone is assumeing that the final two are going to be related to each other in someway. I have a good feelling the final two are going to be more of a shock factore than some would imagin. I can see the twist of jin being left behind and sun leaving to birth her child. i know this doesnt make to much sence because if we think this way its hard to narrow down the last survivor. I believe that micheals on the boat but i don’t think he is the man on the inside. its likely that micheal is a survivor and is once again seperated from his boy in some way. This would give him reason to come back to the island in a flash-forward, since this is a reoccuring theme in the flash forwards. this kinda explains walts constant reappearance on the island since the begging of season two. just a guess, we won’t know for sure till this thurday

  547. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195109"]
    Maybe Doc, but we were lead to believe that Penny was his constant because when Dan told him what he needed he said “Penny”. If you add that to Dan writing that Des is his constant, one CAN conclude that a person can be a constant (though maybe doesn’t have to be).
    [/quote]
    Oh, I’m not saying the other person is not important. Of course it has to be Penny on the other end of the phone call… but… if his Constant is his “love for her” as some suggest. Then why did he even have one side effect if he has ‘always’ loved her? The event (phone call) is the bottleneck in time (the twist tie on baggie) the holds it all together, she’s on the other side of the planet. Des is on the other side of the “anomaly” from Daniel. How does that help Daniel?

  548. leah says:

    walt is bens man on the boat ,cos walt is the only one locke would trust based on letting ben walk free.remember walt is not a child any more , since the real world goes by faster than island time.he would be a man by now.walt was locke s friend.
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts!

  549. Ruckis says:

    i wonder if they will ever show flashbacks of walts time with the others? that would be something to hear about. I want to know what tests they ran on walt and how bad did he mess with “the others”? I kinda remember ben saying something like ” walt was more trouble then we bargined for” at the end of season two but he couldnt be talking about people trying to rescue him because they had micheal wrapped around bens finger and jack and kate and sawyer were all dealing with the hatch and not really lookin for walt. Just wondered if anyone else feels the same.

  550. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="195113"]What event did or did not happen to kill Minkowski. Never meet Des? Brandon was supposed to ___? Maybe just having Sayid getting to the freighter killed Minkowski?
    (hmmm… Sayid sent thru time by Ben as a… “Time Assassin”… cue eerie music.)[/quote]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That Ben, he’s sure one smart dude! ; ) I actually am starting to really like him.[/quote]
    I guess i still am having a hard time understanding this time travel… I thought that the actual physical person DID NOT travel through time, only their mind did. When Des was on the chopper and they went through the electrical storm his mind, not his body, traveled back 8 years earlier, correct? in 2004, on the chopper, when his mind first traveled back through time, his body would have went limp, almost as if passing out. We saw it happen to minkowski on the table. Meaning he was still physically in the future. So i dont agree with a “time-traveling” Sayid. I don’t think that is possible. But maybe I am just not understanding time travel correctly. I agree it is Sayid but i think he is already on Ben’s payroll like Locke is now. Sayid to protect his friend’s and find Nadia and Locke to protect the island.

  551. vavila says:

    [quote comment="195136"][quote comment="195113"]What event did or did not happen to kill Minkowski. Never meet Des? Brandon was supposed to ___? Maybe just having Sayid getting to the freighter killed Minkowski?
    (hmmm… Sayid sent thru time by Ben as a… “Time Assassin”… cue eerie music.)[/quote]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That Ben, he’s sure one smart dude! ; ) I actually am starting to really like him.[/quote]
    I guess i still am having a hard time understanding this time travel… I thought that the actual physical person DID NOT travel through time, only their mind did. When Des was on the chopper and they went through the electrical storm his mind, not his body, traveled back 8 years earlier, correct? in 2004, on the chopper, when his mind first traveled back through time, his body would have went limp, almost as if passing out. We saw it happen to minkowski on the table. Meaning he was still physically in the future. So i dont agree with a “time-traveling” Sayid. I don’t think that is possible. But maybe I am just not understanding time travel correctly. I agree it is Sayid but i think he is already on Ben’s payroll like Locke is now. Sayid to protect his friend’s and find Nadia and Locke to protect the island.[/quote]
    ————
    i think u understand it correctly. The term ‘time travelling’ is just not the best one… However what we saw with Des is not necessarily the only way people can ‘travel’. I personally belive that some people (Mrs Hawkis, Charlie) can materialize (note, not necessarily travel through time but become present, actually Hawkins may travel since she’s on course correction mission and Charlie materialize since he is dead). So we are not sure about all different ways people may time-travel/manifest but you description of Des’ travel is accurate in my opinion :) But i do belive there are other ways too :)

  552. BeenJammin says:

    [quote comment="195131"]
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]
    I reply nicely, not to scold or embarrass, but when you say you “can’t be bothered” reading what others here have written, what makes you think they will take the time (bother) to read what you have written? or even respond to you?

    Also, here is a neat trick. Most computers have a “find” function. On my PC I hold down the “control button” and type “F”. A small window appears and I can type in a word that I want to find on the blog. I choose words that relate to what I want to discuss. For you, I would have typed in “rabbit”, because that appears to be the topic you want to share with us. I did it and found the word rabbit a dozen times. Then the trick is to read what those folks wrote about “rabbit” and add to the conversation, or make your point.

    This help prevents the “I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this” syndrome that non-readers bring here. Seems like you want to say something important, you just don’t care enough to listen to what others think might be important…… :^|

    (spelling & grammar help too.)

  553. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="195131"]walt is bens man on the boat ,cos walt is the only one locke would trust based on letting ben walk free.remember walt is not a child any more , since the real world goes by faster than island time.he would be a man by now.walt was locke s friend.
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]

    I think Locke would be very shocked if Sayid is the name he hears from Ben. He told Locke in the Economist “Forgive me, but the day I start trusting him is the day I would’ve sold my soul.” Now that’s EERIE.
    I also agree with what BEENJAMIN posted

  554. RGS says:

    [quote comment="195107"]I wrote: So we should expect to see Walt strapped down like Minkowski, getting ready to have Maraschino cherry juice pop out of his nose, and then croak in the next few episodes. That means Des is dead in a few weeks, in freighter-time. Just asking – not projecting.

    Rita wrote: Hey DocH, Des won’t die, he has his constant now! Walt probably does too, since his dad is with him now, was on the island, and was in his early life and could be his constant. (this isn’t to say that I buy into EVERYONE needing a constant, but if Walt is time tripping he might need one).

    My turn: I don’t know that a PERSON equates to a “Constant”. I think an EVENT is more likely the constant to our astral travelers. A specific occurrence that benchmarks, aligns, will align, or ‘course correct” the perceived timeline(s).

    For Eloise it was “The Maze” that failed to be her constant. She died, maybe she wasn’t supposed to run it correctly, or run it in front of Desmond, or a minute later/sooner.

    For Des the Constant wasn’t Penny, it was the event, the well timed Phone Call.

    We see that Daniel wrote Des will be his Constant. I don’t think the man, Des, physically will be his Constant, but something Des is supposed to say or do, or not say or not do, will lead to Daniels’ benchmark EVENT.

    What event did or did not happen to kill Minkowski. Never meet Des? Brandon was supposed to ___? Maybe just having Sayid getting to the freighter killed Minkowski?
    (hmmm… Sayid sent thru time by Ben as a… “Time Assassin”… cue eerie music.)[/quote]

    If you are counting making contact with the Constant as the EVENT then your theory is not that much different from the person being the Constant. When Des asked Daniel if a person could be the Constant, Daniel said, “yeah, maybe but you have to make some sort of contact.”

    Daniel was saying the Constant has to be something familiar in both time periods. If it were simply the EVENT of placing the call, it seems it wouldn’t matter if Penny was on the other side answering it. He could place the call in any year after 1996. As long as he thought it was Penny’s number, it would have qualified as an event right?

    Penny however had to answer the phone, because he selected her person as his Constant.

    Eloise the rat, I would have to assume can not understand the idea of needing a constant…R.I.P.

    Daniel wrote Des because that was something that he knew with some degree of certainty would be on the island in 2004, where this time concious travelling takes place. (Does not explain why he thought Des would be a good Constant in 1997-2003, or any year after 2004, if his mind were to travel to any year or time before the specific day he met Desmond).

    So in my opinion the Des being Daniel’s constant was for dramatic effect and that’s why IMO I don’t think it will be a situation where folks will need constants.

  555. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="195149"][quote comment="195107"][/quote]
    Daniel wrote Des because that was something that he knew with some degree of certainty would be on the island in 2004, where this time concious travelling takes place. (Does not explain why he thought Des would be a good Constant in 1997-2003, or any year after 2004, if his mind were to travel to any year or time before the specific day he met Desmond).

    So in my opinion the Des being Daniel’s constant was for dramatic effect and that’s why IMO I don’t think it will be a situation where folks will need constants.[/quote]

    What if you need the constant to return to the time you left from. Daniele may have known he would need the constant to return to 2004 so needed a constant that was in 2004, thus Des. He somehow knew he wouldn’t need a constant from 1997 to 2003 because he wouldn’t have the opportunity to leave his time until 2004.

  556. Rita says:

    [quote comment="195124"][quote comment="195086"]I also note that it was quite a coincidence that Libby never actually met Desmond on the island. He had run off before the tailies joined the losties, and she had died before he came back. Don’t know how that fits anything, just a weird timing thing, so he never got to say “hey, weren’t you the one who gave me this dang boat???”.[/quote]

    And this ties into the notion that the survivors are regularly divided up into two and three groups (caves vs. beach, hatch vs. non-hatch, raft vs. island, captive vs. free) when major events occur. Some experience these situations, or meet specific characters, others do not. (Yet, oddly, we rarely see them discussing these things when they do get together again!) I believe that these separations play into future storylines in a greater way than is originally obvious.

    You’ve offered the example of Desmond never meeting Libby. We know that Daniel has never met Rousseau, or Locke and most of his followers. Perhaps there is a reason for this – one of them knows Daniel from life before the island. What other characters has fate kept apart on the island? How will that play into things?

    Two days, four hours, fifty-five minutes and eighteen seconds until the enhanced version of “The Other Woman.”

    Anyone know when the next LAA meeting might be? *g*

    : ) P

    : ) P[/quote]
    ****************************

    Wow that is an interesting idea! I guess we should start watching for meetings between people who haven’t met yet. That would be Frank and Daniel with the whole Locke camp, including Rouseau and Ben; most of the Others (the ones who went to the temple) and pretty much everybody else except Jack, Kate, and Sawyer; the rest of the freighter people and the island people; and probably lots more.

  557. Rita says:

    [quote comment="195167"][quote comment="195149"][quote comment="195107"][/quote]
    Daniel wrote Des because that was something that he knew with some degree of certainty would be on the island in 2004, where this time concious travelling takes place. (Does not explain why he thought Des would be a good Constant in 1997-2003, or any year after 2004, if his mind were to travel to any year or time before the specific day he met Desmond).

    So in my opinion the Des being Daniel’s constant was for dramatic effect and that’s why IMO I don’t think it will be a situation where folks will need constants.[/quote]

    What if you need the constant to return to the time you left from. Daniele may have known he would need the constant to return to 2004 so needed a constant that was in 2004, thus Des. He somehow knew he wouldn’t need a constant from 1997 to 2003 because he wouldn’t have the opportunity to leave his time until 2004.[/quote]
    *****************
    That’s very possible, but it may be enough for the constant to just be available. If Daniel had needed a constant from 1997-2003, he could have CALLED him, presumably. Perhaps you just have to KNOW the constant is actually there, being “constant” so to speak. I still believe that Dan picked Des because he KNEW FOR SURE Des would BE in his future. How many people, things, anything do you KNOW FOR SURE will be in YOUR future? People die, things get lost, burn down, whatever. If YOU had to choose a constant then, you would choose something/someone who you could KNOW FOR SURE would be there.

  558. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="194606"][quote comment="194352"]I suggest you guys read this.. its by far the most convincing lost theory i’ve read:

    http://timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.htm%5B/quote%5D

    Very, very interesting. I don’t agree with everything, but it seems that there may be a lot of “truth” in the timeline.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Interesting and enjoyable to read but full of holes. I would hate to think that the writers would just explain away so much with “course corrections.” I don’t think they would want to dissapoint us that way. Also, it is a complicated explanation that many non LAA members would not get at all. Beleive it or not there are more of them than there are of us so the answer has to be something they would understand.
    I would, however, like to nominate the author of this theory, Jason Hunter, to a position of high standing in LAA as this took a lot of time to formulate.

  559. RGS says:

    [quote comment="195167"][quote comment="195149"][quote comment="195107"][/quote]
    [/quote]

    What if you need the constant to return to the time you left from. Daniele may have known he would need the constant to return to 2004 so needed a constant that was in 2004, thus Des. He somehow knew he wouldn’t need a constant from 1997 to 2003 because he wouldn’t have the opportunity to leave his time until 2004.[/quote]

    I think it has to be something familiar in both time periods. If he needs a constant to return to 2004, where is his mind coming from? Wherever that is Desmond would have to be. So if Dan’s ’04 conscious travels to 2009, the ’09 is at risk of being disoriented. So then he needs a constant to anchor him in ’09, who would be….

    If Daniel’s ’09 conscious is bouncing back and forth to ’04 something has to be in both time frames to anchor him. While Des is there in ’04 he could not possibly anticipate he’d be wherever Daniel is in ’09.

    The side effect is random and the time displacement can be hours, weeks, months, or years. So for example, if Daniel travels back 5 months, and bounces back and forth, he’s not going to be able to get in contact with Des to anchor

  560. RGS says:

    [quote comment="195170"][quote comment="194606"][quote comment="194352"]I suggest you guys read this.. its by far the most convincing lost theory i’ve read:

    http://timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.htm%5B/quote%5D

    Very, very interesting. I don’t agree with everything, but it seems that there may be a lot of “truth” in the timeline.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Interesting and enjoyable to read but full of holes. I would hate to think that the writers would just explain away so much with “course corrections.” I don’t think they would want to dissapoint us that way. Also, it is a complicated explanation that many non LAA members would not get at all. Beleive it or not there are more of them than there are of us so the answer has to be something they would understand.
    I would, however, like to nominate the author of this theory, Jason Hunter, to a position of high standing in LAA as this took a lot of time to formulate.[/quote]

    I agree with you 100%

  561. LOST24 says:

    [quote comment="193031"]In this week’s podcast, D&C said that in the first 5 minutes of tonight’s episode, we’ll find out if Juliet is one of the Oceanic 6. Did anyone else hear them say that?

    Well, what did I miss in this episode? There was no answer one way or the other. Unless they mean that by not telling us she is one of the O6, they are telling us she isn’t?[/quote]
    __________________________________________________________

    How could Juliet be one of the O6? She wasn’t on the plane. She was already on the island, living with the Others. I believe she arrived by submarine.

  562. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195167"]
    What if you need the constant to return to the time you left from. Daniele may have known he would need the constant to return to 2004 so needed a constant that was in 2004, thus Des. He somehow knew he wouldn’t need a constant from 1997 to 2003 because he wouldn’t have the opportunity to leave his time until 2004.
    [/quote]
    You, my friend, would be a good logic debatee. Perhaps Minkowski did not disconnect from his Constant in the past (Brandon?). Just maybe… he did NOT connect with his Constant in the future – say 2012. We can then carry this concept (backwards) to “the Black Rock” or thereabouts, or the 4-toed statue. hmmm. (seriously)

  563. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195192"]
    We can then carry this concept (backwards) to “the Black Rock” or thereabouts, or the 4-toed statue. hmmm. (seriously)
    [/quote]
    to finish the thought… or… maybe the last episode of the show just goes back to 22 Sep 04, and the pilot of OA815 feels woozie, gets a nose bleed… and the flight never takes-off.

  564. leah says:

    [quote comment="195140"][quote comment="195131"]
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]
    I reply nicely, not to scold or embarrass, but when you say you “can’t be bothered” reading what others here have written, what makes you think they will take the time (bother) to read what you have written? or even respond to you?

    Also, here is a neat trick. Most computers have a “find” function. On my PC I hold down the “control button” and type “F”. A small window appears and I can type in a word that I want to find on the blog. I choose words that relate to what I want to discuss. For you, I would have typed in “rabbit”, because that appears to be the topic you want to share with us. I did it and found the word rabbit a dozen times. Then the trick is to read what those folks wrote about “rabbit” and add to the conversation, or make your point.

    This help prevents the “I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this” syndrome that non-readers bring here. Seems like you want to say something important, you just don’t care enough to listen to what others think might be important…… :^|

    (spelling & grammar help too.)[/quote]
    you sould be called benja mean,the word twister !

  565. leah says:

    [quote comment="195143"][quote comment="195131"]walt is bens man on the boat ,cos walt is the only one locke would trust based on letting ben walk free.remember walt is not a child any more , since the real world goes by faster than island time.he would be a man by now.walt was locke s friend.
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]

    I think Locke would be very shocked if Sayid is the name he hears from Ben. He told Locke in the Economist “Forgive me, but the day I start trusting him is the day I would’ve sold my soul.” Now that’s EERIE.
    I also agree with what BEENJAMIN posted[/quote]
    [quote comment="195143"][quote comment="195131"]walt is bens man on the boat ,cos walt is the only one locke would trust based on letting ben walk free.remember walt is not a child any more , since the real world goes by faster than island time.he would be a man by now.walt was locke s friend.
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]

    I think Locke would be very shocked if Sayid is the name he hears from Ben. He told Locke in the Economist “Forgive me, but the day I start trusting him is the day I would’ve sold my soul.” Now that’s EERIE.
    I also agree with what BEENJAMIN posted[/quote]
    [quote comment="195140"][quote comment="195131"]
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]
    I reply nicely, not to scold or embarrass, but when you say you “can’t be bothered” reading what others here have written, what makes you think they will take the time (bother) to read what you have written? or even respond to you?

    Also, here is a neat trick. Most computers have a “find” function. On my PC I hold down the “control button” and type “F”. A small window appears and I can type in a word that I want to find on the blog. I choose words that relate to what I want to discuss. For you, I would have typed in “rabbit”, because that appears to be the topic you want to share with us. I did it and found the word rabbit a dozen times. Then the trick is to read what those folks wrote about “rabbit” and add to the conversation, or make your point.

    This help prevents the “I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this” syndrome that non-readers bring here. Seems like you want to say something important, you just don’t care enough to listen to what others think might be important…… :^|

    (spelling & grammar help too.)[/quote]
    Ive read some of your posts. your way off the mark,you might think youve got all the answers … well ,you carry on thinking . some of us got the jist in middle of season3 without all the waffle [not to be confused with the american breakfast thingy!]half the posts didnt ought to be given page room.Thats just my opinion . As everyone is entitled to theirs.and i dont say this in a kind and helpful manner been-ja-mean and lost-for-ever

  566. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="195189"][quote comment="193031"]In this week’s podcast, D&C said that in the first 5 minutes of tonight’s episode, we’ll find out if Juliet is one of the Oceanic 6. Did anyone else hear them say that?

    Well, what did I miss in this episode? There was no answer one way or the other. Unless they mean that by not telling us she is one of the O6, they are telling us she isn’t?[/quote]
    __________________________________________________________

    How could Juliet be one of the O6? She wasn’t on the plane. She was already on the island, living with the Others. I believe she arrived by submarine.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You’re absolutely right. I never thought Juliet could be one of the O6 for the reasons you state. So I was surprised when D&C said that question would be answered “in the first 5 minutes’ of this episode. And then I was confused about D&C’s comment when the first 5 minutes told us nothing of Juliet’s future.

  567. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="195149"]
    So in my opinion the Des being Daniel’s constant was for dramatic effect and that’s why IMO I don’t think it will be a situation where folks will need constants.[/quote]
    I completely agree with this point. I’ve never understood why people on this and other boards have felt the need to figure out who or what would be anybody’s constant.

  568. leah says:

    [quote comment="195211"][quote comment="195149"]
    So in my opinion the Des being Daniel’s constant was for dramatic effect and that’s why IMO I don’t think it will be a situation where folks will need constants.[/quote]
    I completely agree with this point. I’ve never understood why people on this and other boards have felt the need to figure out who or what would be anybody’s constant.[/quote]
    hear hear

  569. leah says:

    i stand corrected bean-ja-mean….you havent written any thing constructive for a while ,its easy to sit back let every one else answer burning questions , put their observations down in print .
    All you ve done is cast critical eye over the spelling and grammer of my post.who cares if its spelt wrong as long as the point of the post is understood? I wonder how many people find it frustrating to be four days behind the majority of losties on this blog because of the airing times of the show.?perhaps thats why i wrote ‘cant be bothered reading five hundred posts!Ihave read two hundred since my first post earlier.

  570. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="195222"]I wonder how many people find it frustrating to be four days behind the majority of losties on this blog because of the airing times of the show.?perhaps thats why i wrote ‘cant be bothered reading five hundred posts!Ihave read two hundred since my first post earlier.[/quote]

    Leah,

    I think if perhaps you had prefaced your original comment with something like

    “I am four days behind everyone because my country has only just aired ‘The Other Woman.’ I haven’t had a chance to read the 500 posts yet, but….”

    your post might have been less directly criticized. However, honestly, I think that BeenJammin had a point because your first post DID say you couldn’t be “bothered” to read the other posts. That does make it sound as if you think your point is more valid or important than anyone else’s.

    I completely understand your need to wait until after you have seen the episode to come here, and the need to post quickly in the excitement of having just watched the episode. But I hope that you understand that can be construed as bad netiquette to blindly post and say our prior posts aren’t worth reading. I expect you didn’t MEAN it that way, but it is what your first post implied.

    : ) P

  571. leah says:

    Thank you pjsander I stand corrected.very diplomatically put. Apologies to all ,If ive misled anyone to thinking i dont read all the post.I do at some point in the week.

  572. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="195224"]Thank you pjsander I stand corrected.very diplomatically put. Apologies to all ,If ive misled anyone to thinking i dont read all the post.I do at some point in the week.[/quote]
    Thank for the apoligy. I too was offended by the choice of words and think pjsander expressed it well. It is easy to write something that in your head is a “funny” or “joke” comment but reads differently. Please re-read Beenjammin’s post with the idea in mind that he is trying to be kind and helpful and not sarcastic. Without tonality and facil expression it could read either way and I would like to think he was trying to help. His information on how to find references will certainly help me. I always try and wait a couple of minutes and re-read my posts before sending. I’ve caught a couple of things that might be misunderstood and corrected them that way. I enjoy reading all the posts and hope everyone else can also.

  573. skweez says:

    I thought this might be nice for the next LAA meeting.

    http://www.rhettandlink.com/perspective

    This is NOT spoilerish…..

  574. Trixanna says:

    BeenJammin #553
    That’s quite the trick! I just tried it to find your post and it worked! Thanks for the great tip.

    Just think, in less than 48 hours we will have more answers! (and, of course, more questions).

  575. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="195235"]I thought this might be nice for the next LAA meeting.

    http://www.rhettandlink.com/perspective

    This is NOT spoilerish…..[/quote]
    Perfect! I love that picture – “Only Actors”

  576. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="193948"]Picking up from my thread earlier; I didn’t remember Juliett shooting Pickett (dunno why cuz that was an intense scene);
    But Lost Chicka…I don’t consider that murder when Pickett was just about to kill Sawyer! That is defense of another person and justifiable. I think she was happy to do it too because between Pickett and Sawyer, Pickett clearly was the nasty one.
    So yeah; there’s no real evidence that Juliett is bad…not yet! Except for her taste in men…that was one lame kiss with Jack.[/quote]

    of course that kiss was. for whatever reason jack somehow always gets the girls and i’ve never had a clue why bcuz i def. do no like him. and i guess killing pickett isn’t cold blooded no reason murder, but it’s still shooting somebody else which i would still call murder even tho it was to save one of my favorite characters…

  577. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195201"][quote comment="195192"]
    We can then carry this concept (backwards) to “the Black Rock” or thereabouts, or the 4-toed statue. hmmm. (seriously)
    [/quote]
    to finish the thought… or… maybe the last episode of the show just goes back to 22 Sep 04, and the pilot of OA815 feels woozie, gets a nose bleed… and the flight never takes-off.[/quote]Now that’s deep! Hold on to that one.

  578. dukewm says:

    WOW !!!
    Doesn’t ANYBODY read ALL these before posting?
    I thought we resolved the Gas Issue about 40 times.
    Actually, I’ll “stick up” for Leah for admitting it upfront and then defending her position with the “secret trick” of using the ‘Control-F keyword’ function and then commenting on THAT subject. THANKS for the tip.

    Now (I’ll admit I missed the connection before): Are we confirming that Libby (Hurley’s ‘crush’) was the same woman who gave Des the Elizabeth ?

  579. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195465"]

    Now (I’ll admit I missed the connection before): Are we confirming that Libby (Hurley’s ‘crush’) was the same woman who gave Des the Elizabeth ?[/quote]
    Yep. Same character, same actress.

  580. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195465"]
    Now (I’ll admit I missed the connection before): Are we confirming that Libby (Hurley’s ‘crush’) was the same woman who gave Des the Elizabeth ?[/quote]
    Also, in case you missed this too: She was in the mental hospital too as a patient. Long ago we debated as to whether she was there because she was ill or because she was covert and getting info on Hugo since he won the lottery using the numbers…I suspect she worked for Widmore.

  581. lost4ever says:

    I just got an email from a friend who just started watching the show and all it said was
    “who is Kevin Johnson”…I can’t remember if that is the guy who was in the hatch before Des? I think his name was Kevin. Can anyone help?

  582. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195479"]I just got an email from a friend who just started watching the show and all it said was
    “who is Kevin Johnson”…I can’t remember if that is the guy who was in the hatch before Des? I think his name was Kevin. Can anyone help?[/quote]
    His name was Kelvin Inman, not Kevin.

  583. WTF says:

    sector7 wrote:

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?

    If Walt can teleport himself then why did he have to wait for Michael to rescue him from the Others?

  584. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195473"]
    …I suspect she worked for Widmore.
    [/quote]
    So… did Goodwin feed Libby’s name to Ben before the Henry Gale charade? Ben seemed to run files on everyone before he went undercover.
    What are the choices?
    > She had her info protected as an operative for Widmore.
    > Ben got her Widmore background, but Michael was her eraser.
    > She was an operative, but not for Widmore.
    > She was not connected to anyone.

    She always seemed a “timid Tess” – but who wouldn’t next to Ana and Tunde? I guess she was pretty tough – compared to Bernard.

  585. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="195479"]I just got an email from a friend who just started watching the show and all it said was “who is Kevin Johnson”…I can’t remember if that is the guy who was in the hatch before Des? I think his name was Kevin. Can anyone help?[/quote]

    Hope this isn’t considered spoiler, but I think that the most recent podcast said that Episode 8 is called, “Who is Kevin Johnson” (though I don’t know if it includes a question mark!) *G*.

    : ) P

  586. Hammer says:

    Doc, I haven’t put any of that together. Just going on, why was she in the mental institute, why was she in Austrailia, why did she give Des a boat (goes with my theory that Widmore planted Des), why did she help Claire meditate to find out about the Others, why didn’t she ever get a flashback episode (I think that we will get more info on Widmore one day and she’ll be part of the info)…

  587. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195487"]Doc, I haven’t put any of that together. Just going on, why was she in the mental institute, why was she in Austrailia, why did she give Des a boat (goes with my theory that Widmore planted Des), why did she help Claire meditate to find out about the Others, why didn’t she ever get a flashback episode (I think that we will get more info on Widmore one day and she’ll be part of the info)…[/quote]
    Further, I think she may have been killed off so that we might sort of forget about her until Widmore gets more integrated into the story…hence more proof that the story isn’t made up as we go along.

  588. Rita says:

    [quote comment="195487"]Doc, I haven’t put any of that together. Just going on, why was she in the mental institute, why was she in Austrailia, why did she give Des a boat (goes with my theory that Widmore planted Des), why did she help Claire meditate to find out about the Others, why didn’t she ever get a flashback episode (I think that we will get more info on Widmore one day and she’ll be part of the info)…[/quote]
    I agree. It’s interesting to revisit old stories in light of new information. I suspect we will learn more about Libby in future episodes. I’m not convinced that she worked for anyone, but equally not convinced she didn’t. How did she end up on the plane? Was “someone” trying to put her on the island? How did they know she would survive the crash? Was her death a “course correction”? What would have happened if she and Desmond HAD met on the island? Can’t wait to find out!

  589. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="195481"][quote comment="195479"]I just got an email from a friend who just started watching the show and all it said was
    “who is Kevin Johnson”…I can’t remember if that is the guy who was in the hatch before Des? I think his name was Kevin. Can anyone help?[/quote]
    His name was Kelvin Inman, not Kevin.[/quote]

    KELVIN INMAN. that’s right. Ty Hammer. shawshank. I hope that wasn’t a spoiler for me either PJ. What’s with all this talk about Libby lately? She died in season 2 correct?

  590. Michael says:

    I’ve been trying to go through the five hundred and something post here looking if anyone has mention of the pregnancy test found on the island made by Widmore labs. We think Widmore is trying to get to an island where people can not Successfully conceive on the island , and his company make pregnancy test. I know Sawyer found the test and gave it to sun. Is there any other info on the subject?

  591. Hammer says:

    Now that Widmore seems to be getting more of a role in the story I would like to bring up some old connections and how it would play into some people’s theory that Sun is one of the O6. Widmore’s company made the balloon that real Henry Gale crashed on the island. Another attempt to get someone on the island? Since Widmore has a partnership with Paik Industries, could it be that is why Sun gets rescued? Again, not my theory that Sun is an O6er, just going off others’s theories.

  592. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195487"]
    Doc, I haven’t put any of that together. Just going on, why was she?…
    [/quote]
    Yeah, I was just brainstorming some potential Libby solutions…

    sidebar: Watros (Libby) was on one of the Law & Orders a few weeks ago. Tall girl. Looked better than ever (enhanced version). Evil character – well played. No spoiler discussion for me (lips=zipped).

  593. Uzuri says:

    nicunurse wrote: I agree that something is up with Claire and Miles and Aaron…is it because Miles is some sort of psychic? Claire doesn’t have any reason to not get off the island..all she was told was that SHE was supposed to raise Aaron..why would she ask Miles anything (she doesn’t know about his ghostly abilities…) That whole thing, Claire wanting to talk to Miles makes no sense…
    And why does Sun slap Juliette in the preview (I think it is because Juliette knows the baby was conceived off the island, with that other guy, not Jin…and I think Sun finds out that Juliette was lying about the ultrasound dates…)
    Can’t wait until next week!

    _____
    I said the same thing about claire. I didn’t understand that scene but someone, possibly Hammer, said that it was possibly to just bring up the subject, but why her?? Maybe that’ll be addressed soon.

    That’s interesting about Juliet but why would she lie?? That would mean Sun’s not in any danger because the baby was conceived off the island. Have any theories?

  594. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="195482"]sector7 wrote:

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?

    If Walt can teleport himself then why did he have to wait for Michael to rescue him from the Others?[/quote]

    Because his abilities were still not fully developed at that point. This explains why Walt’s first attempts at teleporting consisted of him speaking backwards. Plus, if the Others knew about Walt’s ability, it’s possible they know how to counter it. Such as the ring around Jacob’s cabin.

  595. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195502"][quote comment="195487"]
    Doc, I haven’t put any of that together. Just going on, why was she?…
    [/quote]
    Yeah, I was just brainstorming some potential Libby solutions…

    sidebar: Watros (Libby) was on one of the Law & Orders a few weeks ago. Tall girl. Looked better than ever (enhanced version). Evil character – well played. No spoiler discussion for me (lips=zipped).[/quote]
    What would be spoilerish about her playing on Law and Order?

  596. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="193054"]Now that we are being lead to believe that Widmore is trying to get to the island and we know that he bought the journal in 1996 to find the island, and (I believe) that he set up Des to get to the island: Can we assume that Libby was a Widmore plant to get Des a boat?[/quote]

    Ctrl-F search finds Doc as first bringing up Libby while speculating about Michael’s journey. I believe Hammer’s post above led to further speculation about Libby’s true nature.

    I think Libby and Cindy were both “planted” on the plane. Cindy by Ben. Libby by someone else. I’ll let you know when I come up with something.

  597. lost4ever says:

    What would be spoilerish about law and order….unless She was shot by harold perrineau as a guest character and later came back to testify under oath what smokey is

  598. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="195131"]walt is bens man on the boat ,cos walt is the only one locke would trust based on letting ben walk free.remember walt is not a child any more , since the real world goes by faster than island time.he would be a man by now.walt was locke s friend.
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]

    I don’t agree that island time is different from real world time. I think from what we have seen abd heard, they are the same- but there is a time “scramble” while going between the two.

  599. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="195500"]Now that Widmore seems to be getting more of a role in the story I would like to bring up some old connections and how it would play into some people’s theory that Sun is one of the O6. Widmore’s company made the balloon that real Henry Gale crashed on the island. Another attempt to get someone on the island? Since Widmore has a partnership with Paik Industries, could it be that is why Sun gets rescued? Again, not my theory that Sun is an O6er, just going off others’s theories.[/quote]

    Hammer, please inform me of the Widmore/Paik partnership. Thanks!

  600. Miraks says:

    Here is my thought on what is happening, or not happening. Many people keep talking about time travel, but time travel implies the ability to go back or forth to ANY time one desires, which we have seen no evidance of so far. All we have seen, is that people’s consciousness can travel indipendent of their body.

    Let me try to explain this better. Everyone has a physical body as well as a consciousness. Those two are almost always connected , but can seperate. (kind of like if you have ever been in an accident and had the sensation of watching it happen while it was happening) While the consciousness is fluid (can go back and forth) the physical body can’t. The islands magnetic force or whatever it might be, can seperate the body from the consciousness, BUT sooner or later the consciousness needs to return back to the body. That is why the lady at the jewelry store tells Desmond that he can’t change the future, i.e. his body is already on the island, and he can not change that.

    Daniel is doing experiments on this- this seperation of mind from body. The problem is that if one goes through it too many times, the mind starts having a hard time returning (like people who had been under anasthesia it becomes harder to wake up every time) and/or figuring out where the body is- at what time point in life . That is why we saw Daniel with a nurse, his mind “confused”. But, when Des goes back to ’96, he gives Daniel a reference point (a constant) for the future time line. Once Daniel gets there, his consciousness/ mind and physical body allign, and he is ok.

  601. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="195512"][quote comment="195131"]walt is bens man on the boat ,cos walt is the only one locke would trust based on letting ben walk free.remember walt is not a child any more , since the real world goes by faster than island time.he would be a man by now.walt was locke s friend.
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]

    I don’t agree that island time is different from real world time. I think from what we have seen abd heard, they are the same- but there is a time “scramble” while going between the two.[/quote]
    ======================
    I agree with you. The time is the same off the island as on. Wasn’t it christmas eve 2004 on the freighter when Des made the call? I haven’t looked at a calender but that seems about 97 days.

  602. Uzuri says:

    skweez wrote: And maybe, just maybe, they’ll tell us why Walt is so tall in such a short period of time!

    ___

    People keep bringing that up. I don’t think it’s purposeful that he’s taller. Kids grow up quickly, especially in TV and movies. I guess if they wanted to keep continuity, they would get a new actor who’s younger/shorter to keep with Walt’s age… I don’t know. I just think Walt’s taller because the actor is. But then again, to contradict myself, maybe they DID want him to seem different by NOT changing the actor. Again, don’t know.

  603. Ruckis says:

    [quote comment="194656"][quote comment="194626"]I’m new to the blog but i have a thought and i wanted to share with you and see what you guys think. okay, We know that syid ends up working for ben in the future and we know that syid ended up locked up with ben for a brief moment when he came to drop off miles. What are the odds that syid is bens “guy” on the inside. Ben knew a whole lot about everyone on boat but they also knew alot about him. Ben could have been bluffing about the man on he inside until he found an oppertunity to make it so. Maybe ben knows where syids girl is? but i digress, I also believe that des and jewls die this season which would explain why they have flash backs and not flash forwards. Any thoughts guys?[/quote]
    I think it is too early to assume that people who haven’t had flashforwards are for sure going to die. I think D&C didn’t want to give away the O6 too soon so not everyone who makes it has had a flashforward yet, which would give it away. I’m thinking that after the O6 are known, we may start seeing flashforwards for people who stay on the island. That would be cool![/quote]

    Its never to early to think about whose going to die in the season,man. Season one and Two someone dies in the First few episodes of the season. I’m always watchful of whose next to get canned. ; )

  604. Ruckis says:

    [quote comment="195519"][quote comment="195500"]Now that Widmore seems to be getting more of a role in the story I would like to bring up some old connections and how it would play into some people’s theory that Sun is one of the O6. Widmore’s company made the balloon that real Henry Gale crashed on the island. Another attempt to get someone on the island? Since Widmore has a partnership with Paik Industries, could it be that is why Sun gets rescued? Again, not my theory that Sun is an O6er, just going off others’s theories.[/quote]

    Hammer, please inform me of the Widmore/Paik partnership. Thanks![/quote]

    when did we find out that the balloon was widmores? I recall?

  605. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="194626"]I’m new to the blog but i have a thought and i wanted to share with you and see what you guys think. okay, We know that syid ends up working for ben in the future and we know that syid ended up locked up with ben for a brief moment when he came to drop off miles. What are the odds that syid is bens “guy” on the inside. Ben knew a whole lot about everyone on boat but they also knew alot about him. Ben could have been bluffing about the man on he inside until he found an oppertunity to make it so. Maybe ben knows where syids girl is? but i digress, I also believe that des and jewls die this season which would explain why they have flash backs and not flash forwards. Any thoughts guys?[/quote]

    Just yesterday I was 99 pct sure Sayid was Ben’s man on the boat. Not sure sure anymore. I am 100 pct sure that Michael is on the boat but I don’t think he is working for Ben. It makes sense that Ben’s spy would have to have been in place already. Which gives us 2 options that we have seen. I don’t count private ryan or the lawnmower man. It’s either Miles, with his crazy coded messages, or Charlotte, with her bulletproof vest. I, at first sight, believed Miles to be the son of the Dharma employee that we see on the orientation films. Remember how angry he was when he showed the picture of Ben. Which leads me to beleive it is Charlotte

  606. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="195503"]nicunurse wrote: I agree that something is up with Claire and Miles and Aaron…is it because Miles is some sort of psychic? Claire doesn’t have any reason to not get off the island..all she was told was that SHE was supposed to raise Aaron..why would she ask Miles anything (she doesn’t know about his ghostly abilities…) That whole thing, Claire wanting to talk to Miles makes no sense…
    And why does Sun slap Juliette in the preview (I think it is because Juliette knows the baby was conceived off the island, with that other guy, not Jin…and I think Sun finds out that Juliette was lying about the ultrasound dates…)
    Can’t wait until next week!

    _____
    I said the same thing about claire. I didn’t understand that scene but someone, possibly Hammer, said that it was possibly to just bring up the subject, but why her?? Maybe that’ll be addressed soon.

    That’s interesting about Juliet but why would she lie?? That would mean Sun’s not in any danger because the baby was conceived off the island. Have any theories?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Just a guess but what if Clair wants to see Miles because Kate did. After Kate talked to Miles she went back to the beach. Claire may not know why and she wants to know if she is with the right group. After typing this it is starting to make more sense since Kate ends up with Aaron somehow.

  607. vavila says:

    [quote comment="195520"]Here is my thought on what is happening, or not happening. Many people keep talking about time travel, but time travel implies the ability to go back or forth to ANY time one desires, which we have seen no evidance of so far. All we have seen, is that people’s consciousness can travel indipendent of their body.

    Let me try to explain this better. Everyone has a physical body as well as a consciousness. Those two are almost always connected , but can seperate. (kind of like if you have ever been in an accident and had the sensation of watching it happen while it was happening) While the consciousness is fluid (can go back and forth) the physical body can’t. The islands magnetic force or whatever it might be, can seperate the body from the consciousness, BUT sooner or later the consciousness needs to return back to the body. That is why the lady at the jewelry store tells Desmond that he can’t change the future, i.e. his body is already on the island, and he can not change that.

    Daniel is doing experiments on this- this seperation of mind from body. The problem is that if one goes through it too many times, the mind starts having a hard time returning (like people who had been under anasthesia it becomes harder to wake up every time) and/or figuring out where the body is- at what time point in life . That is why we saw Daniel with a nurse, his mind “confused”. But, when Des goes back to ’96, he gives Daniel a reference point (a constant) for the future time line. Once Daniel gets there, his consciousness/ mind and physical body allign, and he is ok.[/quote]

    HI Miraks,

    – I agree with you that we have seen clear evidence of consciousness travel.
    – With regards to your idea that body and consciousness absolutely need to be unified I agree with regards to the type of consciousness travel Des went through (and we saw what happened to Malinowski who failed to realigned his consciousness with his body and reality), but i belive that the island enables ‘coinsciousness’ to live without a permanent body – manifestations of horse for Kate, Charlie for Hurly and other patient, etc are examples of that. Wispers are potentially an example of that as well.
    – I also suspect that some people may time-travel wihtout it being a side-effect from which they can die, but with a full control of where in time they are goign and ability to go back and forth, especially those people who are orchistrating ‘course correction’ like Mrs Hawkins….
    – But i think you are right with regards to what happened to Des, i’m just convinced that there are other ways either physical bodies or simply consiousness can ‘travel’/materialize.

  608. vavila says:

    [quote comment="195562"][quote comment="195503"]nicunurse wrote: I agree that something is up with Claire and Miles and Aaron…is it because Miles is some sort of psychic? Claire doesn’t have any reason to not get off the island..all she was told was that SHE was supposed to raise Aaron..why would she ask Miles anything (she doesn’t know about his ghostly abilities…) That whole thing, Claire wanting to talk to Miles makes no sense…
    And why does Sun slap Juliette in the preview (I think it is because Juliette knows the baby was conceived off the island, with that other guy, not Jin…and I think Sun finds out that Juliette was lying about the ultrasound dates…)
    Can’t wait until next week!

    _____
    I said the same thing about claire. I didn’t understand that scene but someone, possibly Hammer, said that it was possibly to just bring up the subject, but why her?? Maybe that’ll be addressed soon.

    That’s interesting about Juliet but why would she lie?? That would mean Sun’s not in any danger because the baby was conceived off the island. Have any theories?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Just a guess but what if Clair wants to see Miles because Kate did. After Kate talked to Miles she went back to the beach. Claire may not know why and she wants to know if she is with the right group. After typing this it is starting to make more sense since Kate ends up with Aaron somehow.[/quote]
    ———-
    i think it may also draw a parallel between Clair and Juliet and Locke and Ben. If Locke is becoming like Ben in terms of his leadership status, then perhaps Clair is becoming like Juliet, who infeltrated losties, might have been collecting and providing info for Ben all along, might have been working for him all this time and following his order sent through ‘harper’ in this episode. Maybe Clair – the innocent Clair no one would expect to be ‘tricky’ will use her ‘tactics’ of befriending (like Juliet) to get needed info :)

  609. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195505"]
    What would be spoilerish about her playing on Law and Order?
    [/quote]
    Evil character – well played.
    No spoiler discussion for me (lips=zipped).

    When I said no spoiler, I meant about the evil character she played on L&O (nothing to do with LOST). I figured if any of the LOST bums here wanted to catch the L&0 w/ Watros when it comes back around this summer, I wouldn’t spoil that for them. She acts really well, her character is pure evil, and you will NEVER figure out the whodunnit.

    (caveat – I liked Watros on the Drew Carey show too – so my judgment may be impaired). [:>)

  610. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="195567"]

    HI Miraks,

    – I agree with you that we have seen clear evidence of consciousness travel.
    – With regards to your idea that body and consciousness absolutely need to be unified I agree with regards to the type of consciousness travel Des went through (and we saw what happened to Malinowski who failed to realigned his consciousness with his body and reality), but i belive that the island enables ‘coinsciousness’ to live without a permanent body – manifestations of horse for Kate, Charlie for Hurly and other patient, etc are examples of that. Wispers are potentially an example of that as well.
    – I also suspect that some people may time-travel wihtout it being a side-effect from which they can die, but with a full control of where in time they are goign and ability to go back and forth, especially those people who are orchistrating ‘course correction’ like Mrs Hawkins….
    – But i think you are right with regards to what happened to Des, i’m just convinced that there are other ways either physical bodies or simply consiousness can ‘travel’/materialize.[/quote]
    – I think body and consciousness can only be seperated if the body is dead. It is possible though that people with “special powers” like Jacob or Walt can make their physical body visible when talking to other people.
    -Makes me wonder if Walt is still alive.

  611. RGS says:

    [quote comment="195567"][quote comment="195520"]Here is my thought on what is happening, or not happening. Many people keep talking about time travel, but time travel implies the ability to go back or forth to ANY time one desires, which we have seen no evidance of so far. All we have seen, is that people’s consciousness can travel indipendent of their body.

    Let me try to explain this better. Everyone has a physical body as well as a consciousness. Those two are almost always connected , but can seperate. (kind of like if you have ever been in an accident and had the sensation of watching it happen while it was happening) While the consciousness is fluid (can go back and forth) the physical body can’t. The islands magnetic force or whatever it might be, can seperate the body from the consciousness, BUT sooner or later the consciousness needs to return back to the body. That is why the lady at the jewelry store tells Desmond that he can’t change the future, i.e. his body is already on the island, and he can not change that.

    Daniel is doing experiments on this- this seperation of mind from body. The problem is that if one goes through it too many times, the mind starts having a hard time returning (like people who had been under anasthesia it becomes harder to wake up every time) and/or figuring out where the body is- at what time point in life . That is why we saw Daniel with a nurse, his mind “confused”. But, when Des goes back to ’96, he gives Daniel a reference point (a constant) for the future time line. Once Daniel gets there, his consciousness/ mind and physical body allign, and he is ok.[/quote]

    HI Miraks,

    – I agree with you that we have seen clear evidence of consciousness travel.
    – With regards to your idea that body and consciousness absolutely need to be unified I agree with regards to the type of consciousness travel Des went through (and we saw what happened to Malinowski who failed to realigned his consciousness with his body and reality), but i belive that the island enables ‘coinsciousness’ to live without a permanent body – manifestations of horse for Kate, Charlie for Hurly and other patient, etc are examples of that. Wispers are potentially an example of that as well.
    – I also suspect that some people may time-travel wihtout it being a side-effect from which they can die, but with a full control of where in time they are goign and ability to go back and forth, especially those people who are orchistrating ‘course correction’ like Mrs Hawkins….
    – But i think you are right with regards to what happened to Des, i’m just convinced that there are other ways either physical bodies or simply consiousness can ‘travel’/materialize.[/quote]

    I’ve been kinda struggling with this too. When sector gave his theory about Walt’s teleportation ability I was thinking to myself, “that is a great theory…for me…to poop on.” (Triumph the Insult Comic Dog). But admittedly, I’m not so sure how they will explain his earlier appearance dripping wet, nor his appearance to Locke.

    When he appeared wet, he said in his backward talk, “they are coming and they are close” or something like that. Wish I had the link for that but I will get it later. But he seemed too scared to be referring to Michael and co.

    He does appear to have the conscious traveling ability, I’m just not sure how he would end up in front of Locke. I say that because in Season 1, he lit the first raft on fire, trying to prevent it from being launched. When they were building the 2nd raft, he was trying to talk Mike outta it. He even seems like he did something to make Mike sick, (gave him sea water to drink?) because when he later talks to Locke before anyone says anything he all like, “I didn’t do it.”

    Maybe he confides to Locke in that scene because he knows Locke knows about the 1st raft fire. But then he tells Locke to “not open it.” I now think he was referring to the hatch (sorry if this has been posted b4 I’m relatively new) and Locke doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    So if Walt is conscious traveling, so far, you’d think he’d have to be on the island to do it which works for the first of his reappearances, but so far not for the 2nd (w/Locke). We probably won’t know more until info about the Orchid is revealed.

    All that to say, I’m in limbo.

  612. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="195562"][quote comment="195503"]nicunurse wrote: I agree that something is up with Claire and Miles and Aaron…is it because Miles is some sort of psychic? Claire doesn’t have any reason to not get off the island..all she was told was that SHE was supposed to raise Aaron..why would she ask Miles anything (she doesn’t know about his ghostly abilities…) That whole thing, Claire wanting to talk to Miles makes no sense…
    And why does Sun slap Juliette in the preview (I think it is because Juliette knows the baby was conceived off the island, with that other guy, not Jin…and I think Sun finds out that Juliette was lying about the ultrasound dates…)
    Can’t wait until next week!

    _____
    I said the same thing about claire. I didn’t understand that scene but someone, possibly Hammer, said that it was possibly to just bring up the subject, but why her?? Maybe that’ll be addressed soon.

    That’s interesting about Juliet but why would she lie?? That would mean Sun’s not in any danger because the baby was conceived off the island. Have any theories?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Just a guess but what if Clair wants to see Miles because Kate did. After Kate talked to Miles she went back to the beach. Claire may not know why and she wants to know if she is with the right group. After typing this it is starting to make more sense since Kate ends up with Aaron somehow.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Maybe Claire goes to talk to Miles and OOPS the grenade explodes and thats how Kate ends up with AAron. That would be sweet

  613. vavila says:

    Miraks 612
    you might be right that body and consciousness can be permanently separated when the body is dead. Then some ‘consciousnesses’ can make themselves visible temporarely (like Charlie and maybe Jacob).
    But i also think that Jacob may have teleportation powers as sector7 suggested in an earlier post and that his powers are so developed that he may be able to teleport objects as well (his cabin). Such powers in turn may explain pollar bear in Tunisia…

  614. Rita says:

    To RGS, Vavila,and Miraks (who were discussing Walt’s appearant abilities):
    Walt was with the Others right up until his dad (Michael) got onto the little boat to leave the island. We don’t know what happened to Walt while with Ben and the Others. He may have been given a “mission” of sorts, and is developing his ablilites while carrying it out. We saw evidence of his “specialness” even before he came to the island, so it isn’t just an island thing with him. It seems that Ben pointed their little boat toward the freighter, or to meet “something” (their boat was not ocean worthy, they would have had to find some help in order to make it). If they were sent to the freighter, Walt could be Ben’s “man”. The question would be, then, why would Walt do it? Who knows WHAT Ben told him or promised him if he would tell him certain things about the freighter? If Walt consciousness travels to back when he was with the Others, he could be passing information to Ben right along (meaning, it would have been given to Ben during the time when Walt was with him, if Walt “traveled” back to that time. Ben would, then, already know everything, because he would have received it in the past). Makes sense to me anyway!

  615. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="195586"]To RGS, Vavila,and Miraks (who were discussing Walt’s appearant abilities):
    Walt was with the Others right up until his dad (Michael) got onto the little boat to leave the island. We don’t know what happened to Walt while with Ben and the Others. He may have been given a “mission” of sorts, and is developing his ablilites while carrying it out. We saw evidence of his “specialness” even before he came to the island, so it isn’t just an island thing with him. It seems that Ben pointed their little boat toward the freighter, or to meet “something” (their boat was not ocean worthy, they would have had to find some help in order to make it). If they were sent to the freighter, Walt could be Ben’s “man”. The question would be, then, why would Walt do it? Who knows WHAT Ben told him or promised him if he would tell him certain things about the freighter? If Walt consciousness travels to back when he was with the Others, he could be passing information to Ben right along (meaning, it would have been given to Ben during the time when Walt was with him, if Walt “traveled” back to that time. Ben would, then, already know everything, because he would have received it in the past). Makes sense to me anyway![/quote]
    I like it. The only thing is Ben was supprised when he was told that Naomi had landed on the island ansd that there was a ship 80 miles offshore. I guess he may not have known when it would arrive or he could have thought he had stopped it by other means already. Either way, I do think that Walt is Ben’s “man.”

  616. sector7 says:

    RGS wrote: I’ve been kinda struggling with this too. When sector gave his theory about Walt’s teleportation ability I was thinking to myself, “that is a great theory…for me…to poop on.” (Triumph the Insult Comic Dog). But admittedly, I’m not so sure how they will explain his earlier appearance dripping wet, nor his appearance to Locke.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Triumph the Insult Comic Dog rocks! Where’s the poop? “The Walt Teleports Theory” is cleanly intact. Do we agree Jacob’s cabin teleports? How do we explain this? The only link to the show, or evidence, that can explain this comes from the Orchid video that references the Casimir effect. Within the Casimir effect, it is possible to have a traversable wormhole. Why give this ability to a cabin and leave it at that? I conclude that Jacob has this ability because they make it seem like he is the most powerful character on the show. I conclude Walt has this ability because they make it seem he has special abilities and we have seen him suddenly appear and disappear. This would also explain why he is tall now, because he has been somewhere in time for a while.

  617. DocH says:

    [quote comment="195575"]
    “that is a great theory… for me… to poop on.” (Triumph the Insult Comic Dog).
    [/quote]
    you had me at

    … for me… to poop on.

    I was waiting for someone to pull that diamond out of their… well.

    I thought it a million times – Triumph – better than Don Rickles on his best day. I hear Triumph is down to 5 cigars a day, and the smokers’ lung is getting better.

  618. sector7 says:

    Furthermore, Walt being able to teleport explains how he appeared to Sayid and Shannon dripping wet. The Others had Walt during this time and were making him do tests. Maybe in one test they put him in water while he was trying to teleport. His abilities were still not fully developed, so when he appeared he spoke backwards and then was gone again.

  619. Megalost says:

    [quote comment="193049"]what has that Harper been in before?[/quote]

    She’s definitely been on an episode of Criminal Minds. Hey eyebrows were scary!

  620. Rita says:

    [quote comment="195597"]Furthermore, Walt being able to teleport explains how he appeared to Sayid and Shannon dripping wet. The Others had Walt during this time and were making him do tests. Maybe in one test they put him in water while he was trying to teleport. His abilities were still not fully developed, so when he appeared he spoke backwards and then was gone again.[/quote]
    There is likely to be something to this, or some version of this.

  621. leah says:

    [quote comment="195523"][quote comment="195512"][quote comment="195131"]walt is bens man on the boat ,cos walt is the only one locke would trust based on letting ben walk free.remember walt is not a child any more , since the real world goes by faster than island time.he would be a man by now.walt was locke s friend.
    on a different note , remenmber the rabbit orienation film?when there was a big fuss when the two rabbits appeared together ,perhaps they were the same rabbit ,in different time zones ? one might be from 1996 and the other from 2004 ?to let them meet would be disasterous
    excuse if some one has already mentioned this . couldnt be bothered reading five hundred posts![/quote]

    I don’t agree that island time is different from real world time. I think from what we have seen abd heard, they are the same- but there is a time “scramble” while going between the two.[/quote]
    ======================
    I agree with you. The time is the same off the island as on. Wasn’t it christmas eve 2004 on the freighter when Des made the call? I haven’t looked at a calender but that seems about 97 days.[/quote]
    …and was it christmas eve 2004 on the island??? I think not…..remember the scene when jack was a prisoner in the hydra? when ben told him the redsox had won a game or something . was he shocked? yes he was because much more time had gone by, than days he d been on the island…

  622. Missy says:

    [quote comment="195585"]Miraks 612
    you might be right that body and consciousness can be permanently separated when the body is dead. Then some ‘consciousnesses’ can make themselves visible temporarely (like Charlie and maybe Jacob).
    But i also think that Jacob may have teleportation powers as sector7 suggested in an earlier post and that his powers are so developed that he may be able to teleport objects as well (his cabin). Such powers in turn may explain pollar bear in Tunisia…[/quote]

    Maybe that’s what the whispers are….

  623. RGS says:

    [quote comment="195586"] If they were sent to the freighter, Walt could be Ben’s “man”. The question would be, then, why would Walt do it? Who knows WHAT Ben told him or promised him if he would tell him certain things about the freighter?[/quote]

    Makes sense to me too. I sorta don’t want it to be Walt, but damn I’m finally starting to see what you all were talking about. Only thing is I think I would need for Walt to be in hiding on that ship. It still is a tight turnaround, in terms of events. He gets kidnapped, a few weeks later he’s reunited, within the next few months he’s on his way BACK to his captors.

    Or if I’m following your explanation correctly, Walt would be giving Ben information while he’s a captive. How long was Ben back at his camp with Walt b4 he turned him over. Not that it matters that much I guess, since we’re talking about time concious travel.

    Sigh. You guys are pulling me back onto Team Walt-is-Ben’s-Ma…Dammit, right when I was about to type out ‘man’ I just couldn’t bring myself to do it, if only because he’s a lil boy. I will wait, but will definitely give up the props if this is correct.

  624. RGS says:

    [quote comment="195595"]RGS wrote: I’ve been kinda struggling with this too. When sector gave his theory about Walt’s teleportation ability I was thinking to myself, “that is a great theory…for me…to poop on.” (Triumph the Insult Comic Dog). But admittedly, I’m not so sure how they will explain his earlier appearance dripping wet, nor his appearance to Locke.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Triumph the Insult Comic Dog rocks! Where’s the poop? “The Walt Teleports Theory” is cleanly intact. Do we agree Jacob’s cabin teleports? How do we explain this? The only link to the show, or evidence, that can explain this comes from the Orchid video that references the Casimir effect. Within the Casimir effect, it is possible to have a traversable wormhole. Why give this ability to a cabin and leave it at that? I conclude that Jacob has this ability because they make it seem like he is the most powerful character on the show. I conclude Walt has this ability because they make it seem he has special abilities and we have seen him suddenly appear and disappear. This would also explain why he is tall now, because he has been somewhere in time for a while.[/quote]

    I’m following you…and I’m almost ready to sip the Kool-Aid.

  625. NICUNurse says:

    I just read a quote of John Locke’s somewhere…that things don’t stay buried on the island…I think the man on the freighter could be Paolo!!! Now THAT would be surprising! (Sadly I think it will be Michael)…
    I LOVE the idea that Claire blows up with Miles…that would get rid of Miles (who is a problem) and put Aaron without a mother. Jack wants Aaron to be adopted by the people who were supposed to adopt him, Kate doesn’t so Kate pretends Aaron is hers….hence, Jack annoyed with Kate when they get off the island!

  626. Megalost says:

    [quote comment="193256"][quote comment="193252"]who is juliet’s father?[/quote]
    Charles Widmore, again…lostpedia.com will give you all that we know so far.[/quote]

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!??! What episode and season is that on? I have S 1-3 on dvd & the last 2 S4’s saved to my DVR…This is the first I’ve heard this!

  627. DocH says:

    Day 36 – Wednesday, October 27, 2004
    World Series Finale – Boston Red Sox win the World Series. (off-Island event that Ben is aware of, and later shows Jack on the Hydra television).

    Day 69 – Monday, November 29, 2004
    Ben plays Jack a video of the Red Sox victory, then offers to take him home if he co-operates.

    Day 97 – Monday, December 27, 2004
    Ben makes a deal with Locke to help him and reveals Charles Widmore’s interest in the Island. (Ben’s tape of Widmore appears to have been recorded over the Red Sox World Series finale video that Ben had shown Jack).

    To answer your –
    [quote comment="195602"]
    … and was it christmas eve 2004 on the island??? I think not…..remember the scene when jack was a prisoner in the hydra? when ben told him the redsox had won a game or something . was he shocked? yes he was because much more time had gone by, than days he d been on the island…
    [/quote]

    The reason for Jacks’ amazement was his favorite sports team had not won the championship in over 8.6 decades. Not island time – but sports fan time – nearly the same.
    Jack was shocked… we all were.
    [quote]
    “Red Sox fans have longed to hear it! The Boston Red Sox are World Champions!
    It has been 86 years, generations have come and gone, and for the first time since 1918 the Boston Red Sox are champions of baseball!
    A clean sweep for the Saint Louis Cardinals, and the Red Sox celebrate in the middle of the diamond here at Busch Stadium.”
    [/quote]

  628. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="195617"]I just read a quote of John Locke’s somewhere…that things don’t stay buried on the island…I think the man on the freighter could be Paolo!!! Now THAT would be surprising! (Sadly I think it will be Michael)…
    I LOVE the idea that Claire blows up with Miles…that would get rid of Miles (who is a problem) and put Aaron without a mother. Jack wants Aaron to be adopted by the people who were supposed to adopt him, Kate doesn’t so Kate pretends Aaron is hers….hence, Jack annoyed with Kate when they get off the island![/quote]
    I think both Claire and Miles will be with us a while longer. First there is still the issue of the 3.2 MIL. If the grenaid was going to kill Miles it would have already as it has been 2 days on the island since Locke fed it to him. If it had exploded Claire, Hurley or Sawyer would most likely have heard it.

    I am quite curious as to why Miles needs the 3.2 MIL. The amount is so specific that there has to be a interesting story connected with it.

  629. Miraks says:

    Remember that Ben started working with the Others when his dead mother appeared to him. Maybe it is the same reason why Walt could be working with them now? Remember he came to live with his dad (who he did not think wanted him- similarity to young Ben) when his mom died.

  630. Rita says:

    [quote comment="195626"]Remember that Ben started working with the Others when his dead mother appeared to him. Maybe it is the same reason why Walt could be working with them now? Remember he came to live with his dad (who he did not think wanted him- similarity to young Ben) when his mom died.[/quote]
    Wow, good point!

  631. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195571"]
    When I said no spoiler, I meant about the evil character she played on L&O (nothing to do with LOST). I figured if any of the LOST bums here wanted to catch the L&0 w/ Watros when it comes back around this summer, I wouldn’t spoil that for them. She acts really well, her character is pure evil, and you will NEVER figure out the whodunnit.

    [/quote]
    Gotcha, that was actually cool of you. (I’m not a L&O fan.)

  632. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195533"][quote comment="195519"][quote comment="195500"]Now that Widmore seems to be getting more of a role in the story I would like to bring up some old connections and how it would play into some people’s theory that Sun is one of the O6. Widmore’s company made the balloon that real Henry Gale crashed on the island. Another attempt to get someone on the island? Since Widmore has a partnership with Paik Industries, could it be that is why Sun gets rescued? Again, not my theory that Sun is an O6er, just going off others’s theories.[/quote]

    Hammer, please inform me of the Widmore/Paik partnership. Thanks![/quote]

    when did we find out that the balloon was widmores? I recall?[/quote]
    The Widmore/Paik connection was made in the novel Bad Twin, chapter 8. The novel was introduced by the show, I forget at the moment who was reading it in the show. The connection is also made during TLE as both being part of the Hanso Foundation.

    (the Bad Twin book and TLE along with other stuff are things that you don’t have to experience to watch Lost, but help people to understand details of the story that die hards want to explore…if you didn’t already know.)

    As far as the balloon, the Widmore logo was on it.

  633. leah says:

    [quote comment="195623"]Day 36 – Wednesday, October 27, 2004
    World Series Finale – Boston Red Sox win the World Series. (off-Island event that Ben is aware of, and later shows Jack on the Hydra television).

    Day 69 – Monday, November 29, 2004
    Ben plays Jack a video of the Red Sox victory, then offers to take him home if he co-operates.

    Day 97 – Monday, December 27, 2004
    Ben makes a deal with Locke to help him and reveals Charles Widmore’s interest in the Island. (Ben’s tape of Widmore appears to have been recorded over the Red Sox World Series finale video that Ben had shown Jack).

    To answer your –
    [quote comment="195602"]
    … and was it christmas eve 2004 on the island??? I think not…..remember the scene when jack was a prisoner in the hydra? when ben told him the redsox had won a game or something . was he shocked? yes he was because much more time had gone by, than days he d been on the island…
    [/quote]

    The reason for Jacks’ amazement was his favorite sports team had not won the championship in over 8.6 decades. Not island time – but sports fan time – nearly the same.
    Jack was shocked… we all were.
    [quote]
    “Red Sox fans have longed to hear it! The Boston Red Sox are World Champions!
    It has been 86 years, generations have come and gone, and for the first time since 1918 the Boston Red Sox are champions of baseball!
    A clean sweep for the Saint Louis Cardinals, and the Red Sox celebrate in the middle of the diamond here at Busch Stadium.”
    [/quote][/quote]

    oh it wasnt a question .thanks.
    it was an example of time being different on the island,to the outside world….not a who,s who of american football teams!

  634. sector7 says:

    Thanks, Hammer. As much of a fan as I think I am, I still haven’t read Bad Twin or seen some of the other stuff. The Widmore/Paik connection is very curious to me. I always imagined they were on opposite sides. Doesn’t it seem like Paik sent Jin to be on the plane on purpose? Why was it so important to have Jin personally deliver a watch to LA?

  635. skweez says:

    sidebar: Watros (Libby) was on one of the Law & Orders a few weeks ago. Tall girl. Looked better than ever (enhanced version). Evil character – well played. No spoiler discussion for me (lips=zipped).[/quote]
    [/quote]

    Do you remember the date or the name of the episode?

  636. DocH says:

    Leah – as “perceptive” and “worldly” as you are, I have to wash my hands of attempting to assist you. You’re not exactly the sharpest Spork in the happy meal. Cheers little one.

    Skweez – Google “law order watros guest act”. It should point you at the episode “Offense”. But it will totally spoil the ep if you go to the wrong site.

  637. WTF says:

    sector replied:Comment 596, posted 17 hours, 10 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    WTF wrote:

    sector7 wrote:

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?

    If Walt can teleport himself then why did he have to wait for Michael to rescue him from the Others?

    Because his abilities were still not fully developed at that point. This explains why Walt’s first attempts at teleporting consisted of him speaking backwards. Plus, if the Others knew about Walt’s ability, it’s possible they know how to counter it. Such as the ring around Jacob’s cabin.

    But had Walt not already appeared to Shannon several times, and to Sayid, before Michael had returned to the beach camp and after Walt’s abduction by the others? I am not absoultely refuting that he learned to teleport or communicate to people in some way, but then why not to Michael?

  638. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="195847"]sector replied:Comment 596, posted 17 hours, 10 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    WTF wrote:

    sector7 wrote:

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?

    If Walt can teleport himself then why did he have to wait for Michael to rescue him from the Others?

    Because his abilities were still not fully developed at that point. This explains why Walt’s first attempts at teleporting consisted of him speaking backwards. Plus, if the Others knew about Walt’s ability, it’s possible they know how to counter it. Such as the ring around Jacob’s cabin.

    But had Walt not already appeared to Shannon several times, and to Sayid, before Michael had returned to the beach camp and after Walt’s abduction by the others? I am not absoultely refuting that he learned to teleport or communicate to people in some way, but then why not to Michael?[/quote]

    Walt appeared to Shannon and Sayid 3 times. The Others were doing tests on him so that implies more than one test was done. I don’t know for sure, I’m only trying to fit the pieces together based on what they’ve shown us. Walt did communicate with Michael through the computer but I can only speculate that his abilities were not fully developed as to why he did not appear to Michael.

  639. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="195639"]Thanks, Hammer. As much of a fan as I think I am, I still haven’t read Bad Twin or seen some of the other stuff. The Widmore/Paik connection is very curious to me. I always imagined they were on opposite sides. Doesn’t it seem like Paik sent Jin to be on the plane on purpose? Why was it so important to have Jin personally deliver a watch to LA?[/quote]
    These are questions some of us have been waiting for two season to get answers. We have had suspicions, but it looks like some loose ends are going to get tied up now that we have and end to the show.

  640. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="195620"][quote comment="193256"][quote comment="193252"]who is juliet’s father?[/quote]
    Charles Widmore, again…lostpedia.com will give you all that we know so far.[/quote]

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!??! What episode and season is that on? I have S 1-3 on dvd & the last 2 S4’s saved to my DVR…This is the first I’ve heard this![/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This was a mistake – you have to keep reading the subsequent comments where this was cleared up.

  641. vavila says:

    [quote comment="195586"]To RGS, Vavila,and Miraks (who were discussing Walt’s appearant abilities):
    Walt was with the Others right up until his dad (Michael) got onto the little boat to leave the island. We don’t know what happened to Walt while with Ben and the Others. He may have been given a “mission” of sorts, and is developing his ablilites while carrying it out. We saw evidence of his “specialness” even before he came to the island, so it isn’t just an island thing with him. It seems that Ben pointed their little boat toward the freighter, or to meet “something” (their boat was not ocean worthy, they would have had to find some help in order to make it). If they were sent to the freighter, Walt could be Ben’s “man”. The question would be, then, why would Walt do it? Who knows WHAT Ben told him or promised him if he would tell him certain things about the freighter? If Walt consciousness travels to back when he was with the Others, he could be passing information to Ben right along (meaning, it would have been given to Ben during the time when Walt was with him, if Walt “traveled” back to that time. Ben would, then, already know everything, because he would have received it in the past). Makes sense to me anyway![/quote]

    Hi Rita,
    With regards to your question ‘why would Walt do it? Who knows what ben told him or promised him etc.’, this implies that Ben is the sole mastermind behind it all. I’m not 100% about that. Miraks post 631 goes straight to that point that others have been on the island for longer and they have recruited Ben for the purge, so maybe Ben is not the only leader? His is most definately a crucial mastermind and player, but his orders may be coming from someone else (Jacob? maybe another powerful ‘other’) who is the ‘real leader’. Then Ben didn’t not necessarily had to promise anythign to Walt, maybe Jacob established a relationship with Walt?

  642. leah says:

    [quote comment="195714"]Leah – as “perceptive” and “worldly” as you are, I have to wash my hands of attempting to assist you. You’re not exactly the sharpest Spork in the happy meal. Cheers little one.

    Skweez – Google “law order watros guest act”. It should point you at the episode “Offense”. But it will totally spoil the ep if you go to the wrong site.[/quote]

    I was joking ,I know the differance between football and baseball!

  643. Ruckis says:

    [quote comment="195547"][quote comment="194626"]I’m new to the blog but i have a thought and i wanted to share with you and see what you guys think. okay, We know that syid ends up working for ben in the future and we know that syid ended up locked up with ben for a brief moment when he came to drop off miles. What are the odds that syid is bens “guy” on the inside. Ben knew a whole lot about everyone on boat but they also knew alot about him. Ben could have been bluffing about the man on he inside until he found an oppertunity to make it so. Maybe ben knows where syids girl is? but i digress, I also believe that des and jewls die this season which would explain why they have flash backs and not flash forwards. Any thoughts guys?[/quote]

    Just yesterday I was 99 pct sure Sayid was Ben’s man on the boat. Not sure sure anymore. I am 100 pct sure that Michael is on the boat but I don’t think he is working for Ben. It makes sense that Ben’s spy would have to have been in place already. Which gives us 2 options that we have seen. I don’t count private ryan or the lawnmower man. It’s either Miles, with his crazy coded messages, or Charlotte, with her bulletproof vest. I, at first sight, believed Miles to be the son of the Dharma employee that we see on the orientation films. Remember how angry he was when he showed the picture of Ben. Which leads me to beleive it is Charlotte[/quote]

    I like where your goin with this. of the 3 of them charletts the one i trust the least. She was quick to put the beat down on kate, and she’s always giving suspicious looks. Kudos boss, never thought about one of them bein the spy. Also i like your idea that miles is offspring of mr orientation man.

  644. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="195482"]sector7 wrote:

    I’m sure everyone will think this is a stretch but it does explain things: Walt can teleport more than his mind through time and space, he can teleport his body. He probably teleported right off the boat with Michael, to go develop his abilites for a few years somewhere in the past or future or another dimension, then returned as tall Walt. We already see evidence of Jacob being able to teleport himself and his cabin. I believe this is where the Casimir effect from the Orchid video ties in. Walt and Jacob have the ability to telepathically generate fields that contain the Casimir effect. Walt has figured out how to teleport himself. Jacob has developed his ability to the point where he can generate a big enough field to teleport his cabin at will. I can see the “I-don’t-think-so posts” now. However, my theory can explain things. Can yours?

    If Walt can teleport himself then why did he have to wait for Michael to rescue him from the Others?[/quote]

    I love your theory. I only wish I had thought of it. It would help explain about Walt and his appearances all over the island. I still don’t think he is Ben’s MOB. Now what kind of teleportation are we talking about? I assume they would use the “beam me up scotty” type right? since JJ is doing star terk next year.
    I dont think they would use the “HIRO NAKAMURA” rules, both time and space. Would they?

  645. Hammer says:

    I am certain that Michael is Ben’s man because it’s fairly obvious. We know he’s coming back to the show, we know he was sent to a very similar coordinate as the freighter and we know that there is some sort of time travel being used.

    I saw on another site a theory that Michael and Walt were sent on not just a coordinate geographically, but also in time. Basically they were sent to the past, and somehow ended up on the freighter. I add to this theory: Maybe now that we know Ben has/had the ability to leave the island, maybe he met up with them and had them find their onto the freighter. Maybe he did to them what he does to Sayid in the future…”Do this to help your friends.” And maybe Micheal feels like he needs to redeem himself for killing Ana and Libby?

    Might add some impact to the predictable man on the boat.

  646. lost4ever says:

    Comment #640
    Walt did communicate with Michael through the computer but I can only speculate that his abilities were not fully developed as to why he did not appear to Michael.
    +++++++++++++++
    Thanks for bringing that up. I never really thought it was walt communicating with michael on the computer. I always thought it was the others. And enlight of new info I beleive it was. We know Ben to always have a plan. His plan was to get captured in season 2. And wit his PRE-COG ability, Like he had with GOODWIN, He knew he would be needing rescue so I think he summoned Michael to find Walt.

  647. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="195968"]Comment #640
    Walt did communicate with Michael through the computer but I can only speculate that his abilities were not fully developed as to why he did not appear to Michael.
    +++++++++++++++
    Thanks for bringing that up. I never really thought it was walt communicating with michael on the computer. I always thought it was the others. And enlight of new info I beleive it was. We know Ben to always have a plan. His plan was to get captured in season 2. And wit his PRE-COG ability, Like he had with GOODWIN, He knew he would be needing rescue so I think he summoned Michael to find Walt.[/quote]
    I agree it wasn’t Walt talking to Michael on the computer. Probably Patchy, at Miss Clue’s orders.

    I also think that when Walt appears where he isn’t supposed to be that it is his consisnous(sp) that he is somehow able to show to people. His body dosn’t teleport at all. I am also not sold on him moving through time yet. I could be, but not yet.

  648. lostfanatic says:

    Sayid is Ben’s spy.

  649. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="196009"]Sayid is Ben’s spy.[/quote]

    I beleived he was until yesterday. It is Michael and I think by now we all know it.

  650. Megalost says:

    [quote comment="193425"]They couldn’t release the gas. They absolutely need Ben alive. Miles implied as much when he brokered the deal with Ben.

    And there is no “force” waiting on the ship to attack the island. There was a team of five specialists sent for a specific purpose. Faraday is the time/space guy, Miles is there to commune with Jacob(?), Charlotte is there for the Temple, the pilot has the 815 connection (something more on the way), and of course Naomi was there to protect them.

    Ben is the target, Aaron is the key.

    And, this is a major stretch, so someone shoot it down but, could it be Ekko on the ship? The African port makes me wonder, as does Locke’s reaction. It is far more spectacular than Michael (who really seems most likely).[/quote]

    I LOVE your theory! U gave me chills from head to toe.

  651. Megalost says:

    I just keep thinking back to the episode with Claire and the pyschic and all the talk about the baby being doomed if she doesn’t raise him and all that stuff. The psychic’s behavior was so strange & creeoy…..

  652. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="196022"]I just keep thinking back to the episode with Claire and the pyschic and all the talk about the baby being doomed if she doesn’t raise him and all that stuff. The psychic’s behavior was so strange & creeoy…..[/quote]

    Maybe the he knew that the baby would end up in a crappy city like LA being raised by a murderer, Kate.

  653. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="196036"]Maybe the he knew that the baby would end up in a crappy city like LA being raised by a murderer, Kate.[/quote]
    LOL!

  654. lostmike says:

    [quote comment="192933"]Crap!

    This episode was Wild. I get too excited. I keep going back and forth about the people on the boat. are they good? Are they bad? Now, we know Penny and her daddy are going after the same thing. but for different reasons. What’s daddy’s reason?

    I wondered why the others just disappeared. Where the hell are they? Since there is a time warp situation going on as evidenced by last week’s episode, do you think the others are back in regular time? Or is there another island in regular-non time warp time?

    Also, did anyone hear when Goodwin’s wife said “you look like her” who is “Her”? Could it be Ben’s mom? I forget what she looked like,lol. And I really want to go out and get the previous seasons so I can see when Goodwin died. I don’t recall him much, but I need to know more!!

    AHHH! LOST I love it![/quote]

    there is another island…remember, where they took Jack, Sawyer, Kate, animal cages, Ben’s surgery…still a good question though

  655. Megalost says:

    [quote comment="194021"]OK, here’s some great reading if you want some further explanation of what went on in The Constant. This is an article by Jeff Jensen at EW.com, with input from Damon Lindeloff. May be a bit spoilerish:

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20182393,00.html

    A key excerpt:
    “In ”The Constant,” Desmond became ”unstuck in time” after flying through a thundercloud crackling with strange electricity. He experienced something like time travel, though not bodily time travel; instead, his consciousness shuttled between two different time periods, Island present 2004 and Desmond’s past 1996. But here’s the tricky twist: Desmond’s Island-present mind wasn’t the one doing the time traveling. When Desmond got hit with Island magic, his consciousness got knocked off-line and was replaced by his 1996 self. It was this older Desmond consciousness that toggled between present and past throughout the episode. Once Desmond ’96 completed the errand of getting Penny’s phone number so he could call her on Christmas Eve 2004, Desmond’s present-day mind came back online, but rebooted with the new memories created by his time-travel adventure. I know: tricky stuff. But I had the chance to run all this by Damon Lindelof — and he says this interpretation is correct.”

    The best line:
    Damon also said ”Looking for specific rules for how all this works will lead you down the path of insanity.”[/quote]
    _________________________________

    Toe Knee-I love u!! Thanks for this. I have the hardest time understanding the Des related sequences….Penny tellin’ Des to leave her alone, then the phone call where she says she luvz him and has been looking for him for 3 years, it’s so confusing. Even when I watch it multiple times. Thx for ur explanation. Someone else explained it really well too. I just want to give u all a big shout out and say thanks for this blog. I absolutely love spending hours here absorbing all of this! MWAH.

  656. Megalost says:

    [quote comment="194285"]I think Juliet is Bens constant, which is why he did so much to get her to the island and why he needs to keep her close.

    When Harper appeared in the jungle it was raining. There is definitley something in this water thing.[/quote]
    __________________________________________________________

    Ben is Juliet’s constant? So if she were gone what would that MEAN exactly????????

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