Meet Kevin Johnson

Michael from Lost Season 4

I have to be totally honest – I am not a fan of Michael the character, and that is a testament to Harold Perrineau and how he has been able to turn Michael into such a reprehensible character on the show. To recap, Michael, the ever reluctant father, was last seen striking a deal with Ben to get himself off the Island and reunite with his son. And all he had to was kill two people and sell out the rest of his friends in the process – all in a day’s work I suppose…

Which leads us to tonight and one of the most highly anticipated episodes of Lost in the last two seasons. What exactly was the deal he struck with Ben? What happened with Walt? Did they make it back to civilization? Where is Walt now?

And finally, how did he end up on the freighter as Kevin Johnson?

Spoiler Warning

ABC’s Official Show Description

“Sayid confronts Ben’s spy on the freighter, and Ben urges daughter Alex to flee Locke’s camp in order to survive an impending attack.”

Though most of the episode will be Michael-centric, we will definitely see some interesting things happen with Locke’s crew as well.

Episode Preview

As usual, a few sneak peeks: Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2

About these ads
This entry was posted in Lost. Bookmark the permalink.

1,002 Responses to Meet Kevin Johnson

  1. skweez says:

    Ha! First. Let’s see if all the 100’s of posts were correct about Michael NOT making it back to civilization

  2. Gup says:

    I think that Michael did get back to civilization at some point. Where else would he have gotten that nice haircut?

  3. Katie says:

    Is this the last episode of the season?

  4. deangoodes says:

    Katie, it’s going to be 4 or 5 weeks before they start putting on new episodes again.

  5. intolost says:

    Go, Sayid! He’ll get all the info out of Michael. Heh….Man, 4-5 weeks with no new LOST episodes. : (

    Wonder who we’ll lose tonight….Juliet? Claire? Jin?

  6. rdizzle says:

    I have a feeling this is gonna be a good one! Can’t wait for my Lost-sushi night. BTW, this might be for a different thread, but I bought the LOST game for my PS3… it sucks. don’t get it. lol.

  7. Rita says:

    Yea!! It’s almost here!! Everybody ready????

  8. Rita says:

    This hopefully will put an end to our “where’s Walt-o” game. In honor of last week’s Chinese ambassador, and Jin, who I think will die this week (or soon), we are having Chinese food tonight for our “LOST dinner”. OK, so there are no Korean take out places around here in Michigan’s Thumb (Yes, we really call it that. Just look at a map!). Can’t wait for the episode to start!!

  9. Trixanna says:

    I am stuck at work and I want to get a LOST fix somehow! I need LAA NOW!!!!! I am so excited about tonight’s episode!!!

  10. Fara-dayo says:

    Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?

  11. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I guess this is where the ability to gas everyone at once would come in handy. Maybe that door is still open.

  12. jaime says:

    Alright…here we go!!!! Very excited for my last official episode. I guess the next one is set to air on April 24th and I have Cubs tickets for that night…what do i choose? Lost, Cubs, Lost, Cubs….we’ll see.

    I have feeling we will be seeing Michael back on the main land, whether it be a FF or a FB, and hopefully we will learn how he seemed to so easily infiltrate the freighter folk.

  13. Angel says:

    I think that Michael did make it back to civilization but something happened and he came back. Ben must have gotten his hands on Walt and is using him to get Michael to do things for him. Today we are probably going to find out why Michael is working for Ben again. Cant wait!

  14. Angel says:

    [quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.

  15. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.

  16. katesFriend says:

    can i discuss someone credited in the episode? it says it on my ondemand tv listing

  17. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199408"]can i discuss someone credited in the episode? it says it on my ondemand tv listing[/quote]
    Please don’t until after the episode. It would seem spoilerish and I don’t want to be spoiled!! Thanks.

  18. katesFriend says:

    no problem! that’s why i asked! thanks for responding, rita

  19. leah says:

    i bet your all glued to the tv now eh?some of us have to wait till sunday……….

  20. leah says:

    …..going to get a head start on all the posts .when ever ya ready……..

  21. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199413"]…..going to get a head start on all the posts .when ever ya ready……..[/quote]
    Sorry you have to wait Leah. Don’t think I could do it!!

  22. Angel says:

    [quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.[/quote]
    ______________________

    That could be true but you never know. If they have good weapons or some device, they can do some damage.

  23. Matt says:

    Uh, U.S. people: How long until you guys actually see the episode? I live in Australia and we don’t even get another episode until April bloody 17, so I’d like to know how many hours from now you see it, so I know when to look up spoilers. I’m just that pathetic. I know. :P

  24. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199415"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.[/quote]
    ______________________

    That could be true but you never know. If they have good weapons or some device, they can do some damage.[/quote]
    *************************

    Like the island gas chamber.

  25. jaime says:

    [quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.

    #########################################

    Frank is a bit of a mystery to me…is he good or bad?
    Why was he replaced by the other pilot Seth?
    Why did he memorize the flight manifest?

    When he went to deliver the lima beans to Sayid and Desmond he ran into Keamy
    Keamy: Do not be late upstairs
    Frank: I’ll be there

    Where would the two of them go?

  26. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199416"]Uh, U.S. people: How long until you guys actually see the episode? I live in Australia and we don’t even get another episode until April bloody 17, so I’d like to know how many hours from now you see it, so I know when to look up spoilers. I’m just that pathetic. I know. :P[/quote]
    ****************

    It comes on here at 9:00 eastern standard time.

  27. jaime says:

    Do we get an enhanced version of Ji Yeon tonight?

  28. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199418"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.

    #########################################

    Frank is a bit of a mystery to me…is he good or bad?
    Why was he replaced by the other pilot Seth?
    Why did he memorize the flight manifest?

    When he went to deliver the lima beans to Sayid and Desmond he ran into Keamy
    Keamy: Do not be late upstairs
    Frank: I’ll be there

    Where would the two of them go?[/quote]
    ********************

    Exactly! I think he was replaced by the other pilot for 815 because he has a drinking problem.

  29. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199420"]Do we get an enhanced version of Ji Yeon tonight?[/quote]
    I don’t think so. I’m bummed but I will get over it when the new episode starts!

  30. leah says:

    [quote comment="199419"][quote comment="199416"]Uh, U.S. people: How long until you guys actually see the episode? I live in Australia and we don’t even get another episode until April bloody 17, so I’d like to know how many hours from now you see it, so I know when to look up spoilers. I’m just that pathetic. I know. :P[/quote]
    ****************

    It comes on here at 9:00 eastern standard time.[/quote]

    it comes here uk,9pm sunday!

  31. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="199415"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.[/quote]
    ______________________

    That could be true but you never know. If they have good weapons or some device, they can do some damage.[/quote]

    ______________________
    Imagine 5 mercenary type guys like in “Commando”. They would rip a small group of average people apart.

  32. jaime says:

    [quote comment="199421"][quote comment="199418"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.

    #########################################

    Frank is a bit of a mystery to me…is he good or bad?
    Why was he replaced by the other pilot Seth?
    Why did he memorize the flight manifest?

    When he went to deliver the lima beans to Sayid and Desmond he ran into Keamy
    Keamy: Do not be late upstairs
    Frank: I’ll be there

    Where would the two of them go?[/quote]
    ********************

    Exactly! I think he was replaced by the other pilot for 815 because he has a drinking problem.
    ##########################

    I think your right, Naomi did refer to him as a drunk when speaking with Abbadon

  33. Fara-dayo says:

    [quote comment="199416"]Uh, U.S. people: How long until you guys actually see the episode? I live in Australia and we don’t even get another episode until April bloody 17, so I’d like to know how many hours from now you see it, so I know when to look up spoilers. I’m just that pathetic. I know. :P[/quote]
    Ha, i was just wondering if they show Lost on flights from Sydney to LA. That would be weird!
    Are people in Australia just as into Lost as US folks?

  34. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="199424"][quote comment="199415"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.[/quote]
    ______________________

    That could be true but you never know. If they have good weapons or some device, they can do some damage.[/quote]

    ______________________
    Imagine 5 mercenary type guys like in “Commando”. They would rip a small group of average people apart.[/quote]

    …not Commando I mean like in Predator.

  35. leah says:

    [quote comment="199421"][quote comment="199418"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.

    #########################################

    Frank is a bit of a mystery to me…is he good or bad?
    Why was he replaced by the other pilot Seth?
    Why did he memorize the flight manifest?

    When he went to deliver the lima beans to Sayid and Desmond he ran into Keamy
    Keamy: Do not be late upstairs
    Frank: I’ll be there

    Where would the two of them go?[/quote]
    ********************

    Exactly! I think he was replaced by the other pilot for 815 because he has a drinking problem.[/quote]
    *******************************
    They are all in the middle of the ocean.,where do you think frank and keamy would go???
    …The island of course.
    One a seperate whilst i can get a word in..Lost is getting more like ‘lost horizons ‘each episode.

  36. jaime says:

    [quote comment="199422"][quote comment="199420"]Do we get an enhanced version of Ji Yeon tonight?[/quote]
    I don’t think so. I’m bummed but I will get over it when the new episode starts!

    #########################################

    WHAT????? Does this make any sense at all? What would be the reason to not give us an ehanced version of Ji Yeon??
    breathing, breathing, deep breaths

  37. NBC says:

    They are promoting the new show, Miss Guided.

  38. leah says:

    now i wonder whether frank was sent on this mission cos he knew too much,ie,pilots body wasnt who they said it was on the news .like faraday knows too much ie.contants.? ..miles knows how to speak to the dead, i think lewis knows more about the dharma than the powers that be would like .these four could be a threat to the credibilty of the hoax?…just pondering as usual

  39. Fara-dayo says:

    [quote comment="199433"]now i wonder whether frank was sent on this mission cos he knew too much,ie,pilots body wasnt who they said it was on the news .like faraday knows too much ie.contants.? ..miles knows how to speak to the dead, i think lewis knows more about the dharma than the powers that be would like .these four could be a threat to the credibilty of the hoax?…just pondering as usual[/quote]
    Hey, just thought of something! Remember the first episode, smokey kills the pilot of the plane! Was smokey originally supposed to kill frank???

  40. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="199429"][quote comment="199421"][quote comment="199418"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.

    #########################################

    Frank is a bit of a mystery to me…is he good or bad?
    Why was he replaced by the other pilot Seth?
    Why did he memorize the flight manifest?

    When he went to deliver the lima beans to Sayid and Desmond he ran into Keamy
    Keamy: Do not be late upstairs
    Frank: I’ll be there

    Where would the two of them go?[/quote]
    ********************

    Exactly! I think he was replaced by the other pilot for 815 because he has a drinking problem.[/quote]
    *******************************
    They are all in the middle of the ocean.,where do you think frank and keamy would go???
    …The island of course.
    One a seperate whilst i can get a word in..Lost is getting more like ‘lost horizons ‘each episode.[/quote]

    _____________________
    “meet upstairs” sounds like a mission briefing.
    Maybe when Frank was replaced on 815 it was under suspicious circumstances and that’s why Frank started investigating and tried to investigate all onboard. Maybe that led him to where he is and he realizes he needs to try and save as many people as he can.

  41. Gup says:

    I was just watching E!News and they said that many questions would be answered tonight. (I won’t elaborate though cuz it would be spoilerish).

  42. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199434"][quote comment="199433"]now i wonder whether frank was sent on this mission cos he knew too much,ie,pilots body wasnt who they said it was on the news .like faraday knows too much ie.contants.? ..miles knows how to speak to the dead, i think lewis knows more about the dharma than the powers that be would like .these four could be a threat to the credibilty of the hoax?…just pondering as usual[/quote]
    Hey, just thought of something! Remember the first episode, smokey kills the pilot of the plane! Was smokey originally supposed to kill frank???[/quote]
    *******************
    Wow, that’s a thought.

  43. KillerR says:

    Micheal may have made it to fiji, but couldnt have made it much further than that.

  44. Trixanna says:

    My computer has been doing some wierd stuff lately, it had better not die on me and make me miss this blog!!! Whatever would I do???

    There are some fantastic ideas still coming in and I really enjoy reading them all!! Wow!!!

    Hammer, LA meeting going later tonight? Haven’t seen you yet ;-(

  45. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199428"][quote comment="199424"][quote comment="199415"][quote comment="199407"][quote comment="199406"][quote comment="199397"]Any predictions on who (supposedly) will attack New Otherton?[/quote]
    I think that its going to be the people in the freighter. Who else can it be. OR maybe there is not going to be an attack and its just another lie Ben tells to manipulate people and get them or his side.[/quote]
    ******************

    I wonder what Frank’s “errand” was (he took the heli somewhere)? Doesn’t seem like you could lead much of an assault with a crew that would fit in one helicopter.[/quote]
    ______________________

    That could be true but you never know. If they have good weapons or some device, they can do some damage.[/quote]

    ______________________
    Imagine 5 mercenary type guys like in “Commando”. They would rip a small group of average people apart.[/quote]

    …not Commando I mean like in Predator.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Naomi had complained to Abaddon that the “team” had no comment training and would have noone to protect them. Abbadon said “they have you” and she said “I can only do so much.’ He also told her to get in, get out and make sure noone gets hurt. The others on the ship may be burley sailors and not solders.

    Ben (actually Miss Clue) promised to “get Michael and Walt off the island,” not to get them home. I don’t think Michael got past the ship. I think it’s like the movie Bedazzeled with Dudley Moore. He keeps making deals with the devil but the devil uses words to trick him into wasting his wishes. When he wishes to be rich the devil makes him rich but unhappy, and so on. Ben has now made another deal with Michael to get him off the freighter and home if Michael will spy for him. Michael has begon to see that deals with Ben are bad. I think Michael might be the one to die tonight. I’t a gut feeling.

  46. JamieGirl says:

    I am reviewing last week’s episode because there is no enhanced version on this week…
    I can’t stop thinking about the blood that Kevin Johnson (Michael) was asked to clean up. Im just sharing some info / refresher in hopes of gaining some insight…
    Wikipedia says the blood on the wall in Sayid and Desmond’s room mirrors Radzinsky’s blood in the Swan. Radzinsky committed suicide by putting a shotgun in his mouth and firing it, causing a blood stain on the ceiling. Because of the protocol, Kelvin had to bury him within 108 minutes. Wiki also explains that Sam Toomey committed suicide. Sam Toomey worked at a military listening post monitoring long wave radio transmissions in the South Pacific. He first heard the Numbers one night and used them at a fair to win $50,000. He got into a car crash, as well as had other future unlucky occurrences, and blamed the Numbers. Hurley attempts to track him down, only to find out that Sam committed suicide in an attempt to end the curse.
    So someone on the freighter committed suicide, other than Regina… Was it Frank?

    About Frank, there was a flashback where he saw Oceanic 815 on the news, and he noticed that the body of the pilot, his friend Seth Norris, was not Seth’s body… so how come he has not asked anyone where Seth is or if he is dead ?

    Also, how cute is Sun’s baby?

  47. intolost says:

    Matt—Do you get the new episode a week late in Australia? When I lived on Guam I did. It was a bummer. 7PM Pacific time here tonight.

  48. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199447"]
    About Frank, there was a flashback where he saw Oceanic 815 on the news, and he noticed that the body of the pilot, his friend Seth Norris, was not Seth’s body… so how come he has not asked anyone where Seth is or if he is dead ?

    [/quote]
    *****************

    Good question!! I does seem like something he should have asked at some point. It was a big enough deal for him to call the airline, but not a big enough deal for him to ask about him on the island?? You are absolutely right.

  49. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199440"]Micheal may have made it to fiji, but couldnt have made it much further than that.[/quote]
    Hard to say since we don’t REALLY know just where we are. I guess we will find out in about 20 minutes!! Yea!!

  50. leah says:

    About Frank, there was a flashback where he saw Oceanic 815 on the news, and he noticed that the body of the pilot, his friend Seth Norris, was not Seth’s body… so how come he has not asked anyone where Seth is or if he is dead

    *****************
    who would he ask?

  51. leah says:

    Also, how cute is Sun’s baby?
    double cute.

  52. JamieGirl says:

    Frank would ask Jack, Kate, Sayid… anyone who was on the flight

  53. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199452"]About Frank, there was a flashback where he saw Oceanic 815 on the news, and he noticed that the body of the pilot, his friend Seth Norris, was not Seth’s body… so how come he has not asked anyone where Seth is or if he is dead

    *****************
    who would he ask?[/quote]
    ****************

    He would ask any of the Losties. They would know who survived and who didn’t, and maybe what happened to them. Why don’t you think he would ask them?

  54. JamieGirl says:

    The smoke monster killed Seth (and Eko).

  55. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199457"]The smoke monster killed Seth (and Eko).[/quote]
    Of course. But Frank doesn’t know that, and he didn’t ask about him.

  56. JamieGirl says:

    Right just was thinking aloud… ok it’s on !

  57. UKfan says:

    anyone know where episode 8 will be up for streaming first, im so excited cant wait!!please tell me if any one knows

  58. leah says:

    ‘dont be late upstairs’ weird thing to say considering they were stood on the deck of a ship at the time!

    here s a question thats been burning a hole in the back of my head…why didnt this expedition turn up on a normal ship or a yacht, It would have been more practical and quicker and considering widmore’s money,should have had more modern technology on board.
    you would only go to sea in a freighter ,if you had a large cargo would you not?
    Whats in the cargo hold? ….a piece of plane wreckage for instance?…or two pieces ???ready for dumping in the sea with the black box .which is totally not the original 815 black box…do ya get where im coming from?

  59. Michael says:

    Man on the boat wants to kill him self.ff or fb?

  60. JamieGirl says:

    The Kahana Is a supply vessel common to offshore oil fields such as those in the Gulf of Mexico, the North Sea and offshore Nigeria. This type of boat is used to ferry food, water, stores and drilling necessities like “liquid mud” to oil drilling platforms. This type of ship is generally built for speed and not duration, so the last port of call is likely close to the destination. However, it appears to have been modified for the specific task of finding the Island, and accommodates two helipads on the deck where the boat would normally carry pallets of supplies. The first helicopter allegedly went down near the Island when Naomi arrived there. The other one is piloted by Frank Lapidus.
    The sickbay is the domain of the ship’s physician, Ray. A latch on the outside ensures that persons can be quarantined within. George Minkowski, and later Desmond and Sayid, were held there. The radio room was the domain of the ship’s communications officer, George Minkowski. All calls to and from the Island and the outside world came through him in the radio room, which was filled with communications equipment. A calendar was used to keep record of the passage of time. Shortly after the ship anchored near the Island, someone on board sabotaged all the equipment.The “quieter part” is a section of the Kahana. It is described as the quieter part of the boat by Ray. There is at least one room in this section of the boat, the purpose of which is currently unknown. In this room there are cockroaches and a large blood stain on the wall.

  61. leah says:

    [quote comment="199461"]anyone know where episode 8 will be up for streaming first, im so excited cant wait!!please tell me if any one knows[/quote]
    ukfan,’US’GBers have to wait till sunday. you,ll notice its all gone quit over there cos they re all watch it!

  62. leah says:

    [quiet] i meant.

  63. leah says:

    [quote comment="199464"]The Kahana Is a supply vessel common to offshore oil fields such as those in the Gulf of Mexico, the North Sea and offshore Nigeria. This type of boat is used to ferry food, water, stores and drilling necessities like “liquid mud” to oil drilling platforms. This type of ship is generally built for speed and not duration, so the last port of call is likely close to the destination. However, it appears to have been modified for the specific task of finding the Island, and accommodates two helipads on the deck where the boat would normally carry pallets of supplies. The first helicopter allegedly went down near the Island when Naomi arrived there. The other one is piloted by Frank Lapidus.
    The sickbay is the domain of the ship’s physician, Ray. A latch on the outside ensures that persons can be quarantined within. George Minkowski, and later Desmond and Sayid, were held there. The radio room was the domain of the ship’s communications officer, George Minkowski. All calls to and from the Island and the outside world came through him in the radio room, which was filled with communications equipment. A calendar was used to keep record of the passage of time. Shortly after the ship anchored near the Island, someone on board sabotaged all the equipment.The “quieter part” is a section of the Kahana. It is described as the quieter part of the boat by Ray. There is at least one room in this section of the boat, the purpose of which is currently unknown. In this room there are cockroaches and a large blood stain on the wall.[/quote]
    i think your a ringer!

  64. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199463"]Man on the boat wants to kill him self.ff or fb?[/quote]

    Sorry! Got impatient.

  65. UKfan says:

    yeah but does it not go up tonight or tommorrow on sites like http://www.stream-lost.com that is where i usually watch it, really want to watch it tonight im so sad lol

  66. JamieGirl says:

    I believe this is Michael, off the island, before he is on the Kahana, so basically this is what Michael did during episodes 1-7, lol… correct me if I am wrong

  67. leah says:

    [quote comment="199463"]Man on the boat wants to kill him self.ff or fb?[/quote]
    what man ?impatiant

  68. Rita says:

    Wow!! Some answers at last!! Those of you who called it that: 1. Michael and Walt got back to the main land, 2. Michael is the MOB, 3. The plane in the trench is a fake/staged crash with lots of dead bodies (though not Dharma bodies, sorry), and what else? Props to you!! Good job!
    Now here’s my question: Is Michael’s mom’s house the same one where Mile’s went to do the ghost busting? Anyone know?

  69. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199473"]I believe this is Michael, off the island, before he is on the Kahana, so basically this is what Michael did during episodes 1-7, lol… correct me if I am wrong[/quote]
    Yes and season 2 also.

  70. Hammer says:

    oooooooooo, I’m feeling good about my whisperers theory!

  71. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199476"][quote comment="199473"]I believe this is Michael, off the island, before he is on the Kahana, so basically this is what Michael did during episodes 1-7, lol… correct me if I am wrong[/quote]
    Yes and season 2 also.[/quote]
    Oh, sorry, I meant season 3.

  72. Michael says:

    I knew Libby would be back.

  73. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199477"]oooooooooo, I’m feeling good about my whisperers theory![/quote]
    I’m starting to be a believer in your theory Hammer. There must be something to it!

  74. Rita says:

    OK, so who put the fake plane in the trench? Ben’s people (Ben, Tom) say it was Widmore, and Widmore’s people (the captain) say it was Ben. Hmmmmmmm. Any clues I missed as to the real culprit?

  75. JamieGirl says:

    If Michael cannot kill himself, this may apply to Jack in his ff also, he couldn’t jump off the bridge.

  76. Hammer says:

    Once again, they appear as someone/thing that is emotionally attached. I didn’t notice any whispers, but the island security systems is extremely complex. Reaching into the real world? Man o man…

  77. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199475"]Wow!! Some answers at last!! Those of you who called it that: 1. Michael and Walt got back to the main land, 2. Michael is the MOB, 3. The plane in the trench is a fake/staged crash with lots of dead bodies (though not Dharma bodies, sorry), and what else? Props to you!! Good job!
    Now here’s my question: Is Michael’s mom’s house the same one where Mile’s went to do the ghost busting? Anyone know?[/quote]

    Bodys from Tieland and the island willnot let people from the isalnd kill them selves. Did the Island stop Jack?

  78. Michael says:

    I was gonna call that ben was gonna kill his daughter and her mother.

  79. Hammer says:

    Awesome ending!!

  80. RGS says:

    Ut oh people, we are dangerously close to the Shark Jumping moment. There are some things that just don’t add up. Hopefully they will rectify these things, but “Meet Kevin Johnson” just may be the episode we point to to describe the SJM.

  81. Michael says:

    Widmore’s Plain, Tie land is were the body is found. Widmore’s boat. Bens man get Michael on the boat. Michael there to stop the boat ( kill everyone on it).

    Ben said all of his people where @ the temple. No one was there right. Wants to send his daughter and her mother. Only people really connected to Ben. He might want them to die.

    Island will not let them kill them selves. It stoped Michael. Did it stop Jack?

    Miles knows Michaels name is not Kevin but doesn’t care.

    Frank talked Widmore into looking for the plane.

    And I knew Libby would be back!!! Theres a lot more to her story.

  82. Rita says:

    Oh wow!!! Danielle and Karl both dead!! Who killed them???? Actually I was just thinking that Karl was getting a lot older looking, and wondering what they were going to do about it, and then he gets killed! Wow! A worthy cliffhanger!

  83. mlc says:

    The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?

  84. Kendra says:

    [quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]

    Aaron is part of the 6.

  85. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]

    I would say yes.

  86. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    Sure looks like it! I admit I wasn’t a follower of that theory, and it looks like I was wrong, that Aaron is an O6er afterall.

  87. Kendra says:

    Any ideas on who is in the coffin? I thought it was going to be Michael but not after watching this episode…still could be I suppose.

  88. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199495"][quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    Sure looks like it! I admit I wasn’t a follower of that theory, and it looks like I was wrong, that Aaron is an O6er afterall.[/quote]

    Alot of us were wrong. Me big time.

  89. Pam says:

    No new lost for a month?!?

  90. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    ——————-
    Didn’t we go through this just yesterday. Look at #4 at the bottom.

    No spoilers or discussion of episode previews

  91. mlc says:

    haha ok they just now updated the oceanic six on lostpedia….was it unclear before that preview whether aaron was part of the O6 or not?

  92. Michael says:

    The captain did not looked surprized at all. Strange.

  93. vanessa e says:

    so the clip at the end says we have learned of all 6… but i only count kate, hurley, jack, sun, baby and who???
    did i miss something?

  94. Andrew says:

    Dang.
    1st off why did micheal say “he was there to die.” that was kind of creepy.
    2nd who killed Carl the Others, or the Frietor people that left with Frank on his “erand”
    3rd Sayid is a Narco and Micheal is f’ed

  95. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199502"]so the clip at the end says we have learned of all 6… but i only count kate, hurley, jack, sun, baby and who???
    did i miss something?[/quote]
    Sayeed

  96. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199496"]Any ideas on who is in the coffin? I thought it was going to be Michael but not after watching this episode…still could be I suppose.[/quote]I think it’s Karl. (grin)

  97. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199499"][quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    ——————-
    Didn’t we go through this just yesterday. Look at #4 at the bottom.

    No spoilers or discussion of episode previews[/quote]
    ——
    If it is now fact, can we talk about it?

  98. mlc says:

    [quote comment="199499"][quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    ——————-
    Didn’t we go through this just yesterday. Look at #4 at the bottom.

    No spoilers or discussion of episode previews[/quote]

    MY bad. I am not a regular. I figured that commercial spots were fair game. I will stick to only the episode content in the future.

  99. vanessa e says:

    DUH!!!!![quote comment="199504"][quote comment="199502"]so the clip at the end says we have learned of all 6… but i only count kate, hurley, jack, sun, baby and who???
    did i miss something?[/quote]
    Sayeed[/quote]

    DUHHH! (-:

  100. Andrew says:

    Is this the first Jack Free episode ever?

  101. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199499"][quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    ——————-
    Didn’t we go through this just yesterday. Look at #4 at the bottom.

    No spoilers or discussion of episode previews[/quote]
    *********************
    Yes you are right. But since this has been an ongoing debate for awhile now (I mean about Aaron as an O6er) maybe we could let it go this one time? It is really nice to be able to put something to rest that we have been wrestling with.

  102. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199507"][quote comment="199499"][quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    ——————-
    Didn’t we go through this just yesterday. Look at #4 at the bottom.

    No spoilers or discussion of episode previews[/quote]

    MY bad. I am not a regular. I figured that commercial spots were fair game. I will stick to only the episode content in the future.[/quote]
    ———————
    I did too. Until yesterday. DocH straightened me out.

  103. Mr. X says:

    Claire will die.

  104. Trixanna says:

    #94 Andrew, did Michael say he was there to die because
    A. He is on a suicide mission?
    B. Because once he kills everyone on the ship, he has no way off and can no longer communicate?

    WOW!!! This episode blew my mind. Hated all of the commercials though, were there a lot or was it my imagination???

  105. Snaisy says:

    Man, I dont want to wait until the 24th! thats too far away!!!

    So, does Walt kill himself or something? I ask this because I want to know if Michael’s mom is the woman Miles went to get some $$ from by talking to that ghost in the room? Dag, Ben is a manipulative! I guess this is how we know why Sayid ends up working for Ben… bc Ben is one of the “good guys”. Oh crap! Sayid told on him! As you can guess Im watching and typing. Man, I think Ben tricked his daughter, boyfriend, and mother… I think he had them killed so that he could have his daughter to himself.

  106. meathead says:

    So Tom was gay? I guess that’s why he said Kate wasn’t his type.

  107. katesFriend says:

    so the island “course corrects” to serve it’s purposes?

    so it wanted michael to come back on the freighter

    are we to assume it wants jack to come back too?

    or did tom just switch guns w/ mike and gave him a faulty one?

  108. Bruno says:

    Where was the other helicopter?
    There are two helipads on the boat. And Naomi crashed on the island with the first.
    But in these scenes with Michael, there should have beeb two helicopters on the boat.

  109. Stymie says:

    It so obvious now. Vincent, the dog, is in the coffin. That is why the coffin is so small and why nobody attended. Who would attend a funeral for a dog. Its also why Jack looked surprised when asked if he was a friend or family of the deceased. :)

  110. Mr. X says:

    The rest of the people stay with locke on the island and live.

  111. Tim says:

    [quote comment="199515"]So Tom was gay? I guess that’s why he said Kate wasn’t his type.[/quote]

    Yes, that was funny

  112. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199517"]Where was the other helicopter?
    There are two helipads on the boat. And Naomi crashed on the island with the first.
    But in these scenes with Michael, there should have beeb two helicopters on the boat.[/quote]
    I last week’s episode Frank took it for some reason not explained to us yet

  113. katesFriend says:

    also, i’m no good w/ the timeline stuff, but did tom have enough time to go to visit michael and then be killed by sawyer on the beach?

    and how did he get off island? the sub was blown up by then, right? b/c there is an xmas tree, so close to now

    and what did tom mean, “some of us can come and go” (paraphrasing)?

  114. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199516"]
    or did tom just switch guns w/ mike and gave him a faulty one?[/quote]
    I was working on this one myself, since the bomb was a fake, the gun could have been a switch a roo too. But how about the car crash, Tom or Ben didn’t seem to be part of that and Libby got involved as well, and she’s dead (whisperer?)

  115. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="199475"]Is Michael’s mom’s house the same one where Mile’s went to do the ghost busting? Anyone know?[/quote]

    It did look similar, but Miles was in a bad part of LA, and Mr. Friendly said Michael was in Manhattan, so doesn’t sound like it is the same.

    Did anyone else think, “he throws like a girl” when they saw Mr. Friendly?

    LOL

    : ) P

  116. Rita says:

    OK, how does this sound: Sayeed ratted Michael out to the captain. Michael ends up dying and cannot carry out his mission. Sayeed then realizes that Michael’s mission was to save his friends on the island and thus ends up taking over Michael’s mission. Next thing he knows, he is working for Ben as we saw later in his ff.

  117. JamieGirl says:

    Aaron = O6rd
    Michael in coffin as “Kevin Johnson” (not sure how he dies now that he cannot kill himself). Michael’s mother’s grandson, Walt is also under an assumed name, we just don’t know the name yet. He dies (supposedly because we see Miles the Ghostbuster pay a visit to the grandmother’s house to dustbuster the dead).

    Separate topic:
    Team Ben is claiming that Widemore planted the faux plane & bodies and Team Widemore is claiming that Ben planted the faux plane & bodies. Not sure about the faux plane however Mr. Paik and Paik Heavy Industries seem to be involved in various manufacturing industry sectors, including motor and vehicle manufacture under the names Paik Motors and Paik Automotive. In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?

  118. DocH says:

    1) Some predicted the Tom backstory (Tom to Kate – You’re not my type) Tom Friendly is Gay Friendly… mystery solved.

    2) LOST is all about redemption… yada, yada. Guess what Michael, stepped up to the plate this week and hit the redemption ball out of the park.

    3) Fake Waaaallllttt in grandmas’ upstairs window looked… well… fake!

    4) About Michaels’ suicide crash, in his leprechaun green Impala (I didn’t figure Michael as an “Up With People” music fan)… did anyone notice the Widmore Freighter chugging along in the background?

    5) Full moon tonight. Fool Sun next episode. Many answers solved – many more raised.

    6) Guess we won’t get the Rousseau FB after all (or Karl). Bet the target practice on the boat had the same shooters that dropped Danielle and Karl. HMMMMM? Karl and Danielle were the two that stood between Ben and Alex. How much do you want to bet that Ben is behind their deaths? You know… to get closer to Alex. (rut-roh scooby)

  119. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199524"]also, i’m no good w/ the timeline stuff, but did tom have enough time to go to visit michael and then be killed by sawyer on the beach?

    and how did he get off island? the sub was blown up by then, right? b/c there is an xmas tree, so close to now

    and what did tom mean, “some of us can come and go” (paraphrasing)?[/quote]

    —-

    Thinks some of the people ( ben, Tom) can exist both on and off the island at the same time.

  120. Bruno says:

    [quote comment="199523"][quote comment="199517"]Where was the other helicopter?
    There are two helipads on the boat. And Naomi crashed on the island with the first.
    But in these scenes with Michael, there should have beeb two helicopters on the boat.[/quote]
    I last week’s episode Frank took it for some reason not explained to us yet[/quote]

    Teah. I know. But at the start of the voyage, when Michael gets on the boat for the first time, there should have been two helicopters on the boat. Yet I only saw one, and it’s the blue one that Frank eventually piloted to the island.

  121. Tim says:

    Who is hosting this site? I know we shouldn’t complain but it seems like this site is hosted on some old computer in someone’s basement.
    How many people could possibly be connected to the database? 10?

  122. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199518"]It so obvious now. Vincent, the dog, is in the coffin. That is why the coffin is so small and why nobody attended. Who would attend a funeral for a dog. Its also why Jack looked surprised when asked if he was a friend or family of the deceased. :)[/quote]
    LOL…you’re a Bozo.

  123. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199509"]Is this the first Jack Free episode ever?[/quote]
    That must be why I enjoyed it so much! :)

  124. maggs says:

    Bet it’s Sawyer in the coffin!

  125. JamieGirl says:

    [quote comment="199527"]OK, how does this sound: Sayeed ratted Michael out to the captain. Michael ends up dying and cannot carry out his mission. Sayeed then realizes that Michael’s mission was to save his friends on the island and thus ends up taking over Michael’s mission. Next thing he knows, he is working for Ben as we saw later in his ff.[/quote]

    Rita, you’re awesome.

    If I’m right about Paik being involved w/ the freighter, than that would explain why Jin is either dead or left behind (Paik did not want Jin w/ his daughter)

    PS – Congrats Meghan xoxo

  126. Gup says:

    I don’t understand why Sayid ratted out Michael to the captain? It seems like he is believing what the captain has told them contrary to the note- which we can now assume came from Michael?

  127. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199529"] Bet the target practice on the boat had the same shooters that dropped Danielle and Karl. HMMMMM? Karl and Danielle were the two that stood between Ben and Alex. How much do you want to bet that Ben is behind their deaths? You know… to get closer to Alex. (rut-roh scooby)[/quote]
    Yeah, seems obvious now that you pointed it out. Lapidus and the machine gun dude took off in the heli…

  128. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199483"]Once again, they appear as someone/thing that is emotionally attached. I didn’t notice any whispers, but the island security systems is extremely complex. Reaching into the real world? Man o man…[/quote]
    I think there was a brief whisper at the beginning of the scene where Libby appeared in the boat.

    Do you think the time she appeared in the hospital was a whisper/smokey-related manifestation? I took it at face value, that Mikey was having a bad dream, and they showed this to further emphasize how guilty he feels, and to set up her subsequent appearance on the boat by showing us what he’s emotionally attached (to use your term, which I agree with).

  129. DocH says:

    As for “what happened to the other helicopter?”… my guess is that it was on an errand (not the same errand as last week)… PERHAPS Naomi and her initial “strike team” had just launched on their mission. We saw her earlier in the voyage, but we did not see her after the “one helo” scene. Things were going on with the freighter folks, and we never saw the freighter tots, other than Frank. Did we see Frank on deck when we only saw one helo? That means someone else flew the 1st helo mission – which we assume – because only Naomi survived the 1st mission (barely).

  130. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199539"]I don’t understand why Sayid ratted out Michael to the captain? It seems like he is believing what the captain has told them contrary to the note- which we can now assume came from Michael?[/quote]
    Rita’s explaination is a good one. Plus DocH’s redemption comment and there you have it. Michael can die and it lines Sayid up for the FF he had.

  131. RAY says:

    [quote comment="199527"]OK, how does this sound: Sayeed ratted Michael out to the captain. Michael ends up dying and cannot carry out his mission. Sayeed then realizes that Michael’s mission was to save his friends on the island and thus ends up taking over Michael’s mission. Next thing he knows, he is working for Ben as we saw later in his ff.[/quote]

    —-
    I think you may be on to something…makes sense.

  132. Toeknee says:

    I don’t know if there are people who still think that time on the island is either ahead of or behind time off the island, but Mike’s mother’s comment that was something like “tell me what you were doing for those 2 months” is further evidence that the time on and off the island is the same.

  133. Tim says:

    OK, so the people from the boat kill Danielle and Carl and kidnap Alex.
    Then they use her to manipulate Ben, just as Ben would do with other people.

  134. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="199527"]OK, how does this sound: Sayeed ratted Michael out to the captain. Michael ends up dying and cannot carry out his mission. Sayeed then realizes that Michael’s mission was to save his friends on the island and thus ends up taking over Michael’s mission. Next thing he knows, he is working for Ben as we saw later in his ff.[/quote]
    Hey Rita, I think you are correct once again. Wow! Sayeed MUST have known this was going to get Michael killed!!! Did he not believe his story? So… now I am starting to like Michael again and not so sure about Sayeed (even though he has a cool accent).

  135. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199541"][quote comment="199483"]Once again, they appear as someone/thing that is emotionally attached. I didn’t notice any whispers, but the island security systems is extremely complex. Reaching into the real world? Man o man…[/quote]
    I think there was a brief whisper at the beginning of the scene where Libby appeared in the boat.

    Do you think the time she appeared in the hospital was a whisper/smokey-related manifestation? I took it at face value, that Mikey was having a bad dream, and they showed this to further emphasize how guilty he feels, and to set up her subsequent appearance on the boat by showing us what he’s emotionally attached (to use your term, which I agree with).[/quote]
    I most certainly do think that Libby is part of the whisperers/smokey combo package. I listened real hard and you may be right about a brief whisper, but def. not as obvious as in the past, so I’m not sure.

  136. skweez says:

    So, Ben had Karl and Rousso (i dont think she’s dead) killed. I’m sure we’ll see Harper or ageless Richard or Patchy out there in the woods.

  137. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199540"][quote comment="199529"] Bet the target practice on the boat had the same shooters that dropped Danielle and Karl. HMMMMM? Karl and Danielle were the two that stood between Ben and Alex. How much do you want to bet that Ben is behind their deaths? You know… to get closer to Alex. (rut-roh scooby)[/quote]
    Yeah, seems obvious now that you pointed it out. Lapidus and the machine gun dude took off in the heli…[/quote]

    Was that franks thing to do last week.

  138. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”

  139. lost4ever says:

    Does Michael heal extremely fast from the island or was the crash not that serious?
    Ben stated he doesn’t kill innocent people. Was that setting us up to beleive that the freighties killed Rousseau and Karl? I mean he has killed innocent people, right?

  140. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199547"][quote comment="199527"]OK, how does this sound: Sayeed ratted Michael out to the captain. Michael ends up dying and cannot carry out his mission. Sayeed then realizes that Michael’s mission was to save his friends on the island and thus ends up taking over Michael’s mission. Next thing he knows, he is working for Ben as we saw later in his ff.[/quote]
    Hey Rita, I think you are correct once again. Wow! Sayeed MUST have known this was going to get Michael killed!!! Did he not believe his story? So… now I am starting to like Michael again and not so sure about Sayeed (even though he has a cool accent).[/quote]
    My take was he knew it would get him killed and did it because he deserved it and/or was helping Michael get his wish to die. Because it seemed Michael’s FB was him narrating to Des and Sayid. Sayid knew Michael “needs” to die, so maybe he was helping him get his destiny…death.

  141. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199548"]
    I most certainly do think that Libby is part of the whisperers/smokey combo package. [/quote]
    You think that about both of her appearances? I’m not so sure of the first one (in the hospital), but I may be wrong about that.

  142. Trixanna says:

    I am still confused even though there were some awesome answers tonight. The helicoptor pilot, is he working for Ben or Widmore? He said it would be cool to find some survivors so I am not sure what his story is. It’s probably obvious, my mind is fried after this episode! (grin)

  143. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199548"][quote comment="199541"][quote comment="199483"]Once again, they appear as someone/thing that is emotionally attached. I didn’t notice any whispers, but the island security systems is extremely complex. Reaching into the real world? Man o man…[/quote]
    I think there was a brief whisper at the beginning of the scene where Libby appeared in the boat.

    Do you think the time she appeared in the hospital was a whisper/smokey-related manifestation? I took it at face value, that Mikey was having a bad dream, and they showed this to further emphasize how guilty he feels, and to set up her subsequent appearance on the boat by showing us what he’s emotionally attached (to use your term, which I agree with).[/quote]
    I most certainly do think that Libby is part of the whisperers/smokey combo package. I listened real hard and you may be right about a brief whisper, but def. not as obvious as in the past, so I’m not sure.[/quote]

    I believe i heard the whispers as well.

  144. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199527"]OK, how does this sound: Sayeed ratted Michael out to the captain. Michael ends up dying and cannot carry out his mission. Sayeed then realizes that Michael’s mission was to save his friends on the island and thus ends up taking over Michael’s mission. Next thing he knows, he is working for Ben as we saw later in his ff.[/quote]
    So then that could be Sayid in the coffin. Then after Sayid fails his mission, Jack gets the call from Benvto save his friends still left on the island

  145. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199551"][quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”[/quote]
    Absolutely this is a good catch. Ben’s been saying he’s the good one all along…made another statement about not killing innocents…hmmmm.

  146. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199555"]I am still confused even though there were some awesome answers tonight. The helicoptor pilot, is he working for Ben or Widmore? He said it would be cool to find some survivors so I am not sure what his story is. It’s probably obvious, my mind is fried after this episode! (grin)[/quote]

    Frank said he was part of the reason they where out there. that he conviced the old man Widmore.

  147. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199554"][quote comment="199548"]
    I most certainly do think that Libby is part of the whisperers/smokey combo package. [/quote]
    You think that about both of her appearances? I’m not so sure of the first one (in the hospital), but I may be wrong about that.[/quote]
    Yes, I do. But it’s most likely because of my whisperers hang up. :)

  148. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199558"][quote comment="199551"][quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”[/quote]
    Absolutely this is a good catch. Ben’s been saying he’s the good one all along…made another statement about not killing innocents…hmmmm.[/quote]
    ————-
    this is a great catch…..from LOSTPEDIA

  149. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199559"][quote comment="199555"]I am still confused even though there were some awesome answers tonight. The helicoptor pilot, is he working for Ben or Widmore? He said it would be cool to find some survivors so I am not sure what his story is. It’s probably obvious, my mind is fried after this episode! (grin)[/quote]

    Frank said he was part of the reason they where out there. that he conviced the old man Widmore.[/quote]
    Well, remember Lapidus called the “hot line” and told them that he knew for sure that the pilot was not the 815 pilot. So IMO he didn’t talk Widmore into looking for the real 815, he was recruited because Widmore knows that Lapidus would be committed…and also not return from the mission.

  150. DocH says:

    [quote comment="199546"]
    OK, so the people from the boat kill Danielle and Carl and kidnap Alex. Then they use her to manipulate Ben, just as Ben would do with other people.
    [/quote]
    While that is just as viable as my solution… WHY did Ben pick that moment, just then, to talk to them alone AND send them off (alone) with a ‘special’ map… just for them? It could have been a map solely to drive them in to his ambush. Temple – Shmemple! I bet that map’s not worth the Dharma paper it was printed on. Alex was most likely Ben’s target, not Widmores’ target.

    (sidebar: How cool did Ben look in his Hugh Hefner jammies talking on his hamm-radio to Michael? I expected Miss December to stroll out and perch on his lap, then give him a peck on the cheek.)

  151. Ed says:

    Can anyone direct me to a site where I can get a podcast or re-run of tonight’s episode ? Our esteemed ABC station here in the Carolina’s dropped the audio when Michael was about to board the ship, and did not return it until Rousseau was shot.

    Ed

  152. Trixanna says:

    Thank you Michael. Somehow I missed that.

  153. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199561"][quote comment="199558"][quote comment="199551"][quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”[/quote]
    Absolutely this is a good catch. Ben’s been saying he’s the good one all along…made another statement about not killing innocents…hmmmm.[/quote]
    ————-
    this is a great catch…..from LOSTPEDIA[/quote]
    Well, it would be nice to credit where you find things…but it’s still a good find.

  154. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199564"]Can anyone direct me to a site where I can get a podcast or re-run of tonight’s episode ? Our esteemed ABC station here in the Carolina’s dropped the audio when Michael was about to board the ship, and did not return it until Rousseau was shot.

    Ed[/quote]
    The only place I know of is ABC.com, and it won’t be on until about 2 or 3 a.m. Eastern.

  155. Tim says:

    [quote comment="199563"][quote comment="199546"]
    OK, so the people from the boat kill Danielle and Carl and kidnap Alex. Then they use her to manipulate Ben, just as Ben would do with other people.
    [/quote]
    While that is just as viable as my solution… WHY did Ben pick that moment, just then, to talk to them alone AND send them off (alone) with a ‘special’ map… just for them? It could have been a map solely to drive them in to his ambush. Temple – Shmemple! I bet that map’s not worth the Dharma paper it was printed on. Alex was most likely Ben’s target, not Widmores’ target.

    (sidebar: How cool did Ben look in his Hugh Hefner jammies talking on his hamm-radio to Michael? I expected Miss December to stroll out and perch on his lap, then give him a peck on the cheek.)[/quote]

    Some people were suggesting that it was Lapidus and pecs guy doing the shooting and I couldn’t figure out why they would be doing Ben’s work. So then I tried to figure out why they may be trying to kill Danielle and Carl. This is a solution I came up with.

  156. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199562"][quote comment="199559"][quote comment="199555"]I am still confused even though there were some awesome answers tonight. The helicoptor pilot, is he working for Ben or Widmore? He said it would be cool to find some survivors so I am not sure what his story is. It’s probably obvious, my mind is fried after this episode! (grin)[/quote]

    Frank said he was part of the reason they where out there. that he conviced the old man Widmore.[/quote]
    Well, remember Lapidus called the “hot line” and told them that he knew for sure that the pilot was not the 815 pilot. So IMO he didn’t talk Widmore into looking for the real 815, he was recruited because Widmore knows that Lapidus would be committed…and also not return from the mission.[/quote]

    What do you mean committed? I can see word getting back to Widmore cought wind of franf making calls and picked him up and put him on this boat. Or even Ben and his men put him on the boat. Ben got frank to talk to widmore told him what he knew and here he is.

  157. Trixanna says:

    I took that to mean “committed to the project” and not “committed to the looney bin”. So you are saying the Widmore put him on the ship basically to shut him up? Ouch.

  158. Trixanna says:

    I took that to mean “committed to the project” and not “committed to the looney bin”. So you are saying the Widmore put him on the ship basically to shut him up? As in… kill him off so he can’t talk? Ouch.

  159. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199569"]

    What do you mean committed? I can see word getting back to Widmore cought wind of franf making calls and picked him up and put him on this boat. Or even Ben and his men put him on the boat. Ben got frank to talk to widmore told him what he knew and here he is.[/quote]
    By committed, I mean that the real pilot of 815 was a freind of Lapidus, so he would be committed to the “mission”. This is assuming that Widmore is one that planted the plane. Of course it wouldn’t make sense if Ben planted the plane.

  160. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199565"]Thank you Michael. Somehow I missed that.[/quote]

    yep yep. Hammer pointed out “…Lapidus called the “hot line” and told them that he knew for sure that the pilot was not the 815 pilot. So IMO he didn’t talk Widmore into looking for the real 815,..”

    Does that mean frank is lying?

  161. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199571"]I took that to mean “committed to the project” and not “committed to the looney bin”. So you are saying the Widmore put him on the ship basically to shut him up? As in… kill him off so he can’t talk? Ouch.[/quote]
    Yeah, that’s my thought.

  162. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199573"][quote comment="199565"]Thank you Michael. Somehow I missed that.[/quote]

    yep yep. Hammer pointed out “…Lapidus called the “hot line” and told them that he knew for sure that the pilot was not the 815 pilot. So IMO he didn’t talk Widmore into looking for the real 815,..”

    Does that mean frank is lying?[/quote]
    No, it means that Frank THINKS his phone call conviced Widmore to do this and doesn’t know that Widmore has been looking for the island for quite some time. In other words, Widmore is lying to Frank.

  163. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199575"][quote comment="199573"][quote comment="199565"]Thank you Michael. Somehow I missed that.[/quote]

    yep yep. Hammer pointed out “…Lapidus called the “hot line” and told them that he knew for sure that the pilot was not the 815 pilot. So IMO he didn’t talk Widmore into looking for the real 815,..”

    Does that mean frank is lying?[/quote]
    No, it means that Frank THINKS his phone call conviced Widmore to do this and doesn’t know that Widmore has been looking for the island for quite some time. In other words, Widmore is lying to Frank.[/quote]

    Good stuff! He was also in the photos that naomi was going through, along with Miles charrolet an Daniel. Could Widmore be lying to them as well.

  164. Trixanna says:

    Makes sense to me Hammer. You always pick up on the tiniest of details!

    Good night!!

  165. lost4ever says:

    Locke’s on law and order on USA

  166. nicunurse says:

    [quote comment="199524"]also, i’m no good w/ the timeline stuff, but did tom have enough time to go to visit michael and then be killed by sawyer on the beach?

    and how did he get off island? the sub was blown up by then, right? b/c there is an xmas tree, so close to now

    and what did tom mean, “some of us can come and go” (paraphrasing)?[/quote]

    Last year Laura* stated that she thought the sub was a scam…I believe it now. Juliette was drugged to come to the island and then woke up on the sub…how do we know that’s really how she got there. Notice Ben was not too upset about the sub being blown up. I think he portrayed to his people that the sub was the only way off so that they wouldn’t think they could just go back and forth (“I’m going home for xmas..”). So the question is, how else do they get off the island (an airport on the north shore)?
    And if the island won’t let Michael die…how about Alex and Carl…are they still alive (like Locke who was shot head on by Ben)? Or do you only not get to die if you leave the island…sort of a reverse of the curing properties….
    And oops, Sayid…not sure you should have ratted Michael out, especially with the captain having machine guns to waste on clay pigeons…

  167. leah says:

    im off to bed . night all

  168. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199576"]
    Good stuff! He was also in the photos that naomi was going through, along with Miles charrolet an Daniel. Could Widmore be lying to them as well.[/quote]Oh, I think so. They too would be committed. Charlotte wants to study the island as well as Danielle. Their mission was to get the gas turned inert…now they are doing what THEY wanted to do. Remeber what basically is the MO of all evil empires…use people to get what you want, then kill them to keep it for yourself.

  169. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199579"]And if the island won’t let Michael die…how about Alex and Carl…are they still alive (like Locke who was shot head on by Ben)? Or do you only not get to die if you leave the island…sort of a reverse of the curing properties….
    And oops, Sayid…not sure you should have ratted Michael out, especially with the captain having machine guns to waste on clay pigeons…[/quote]It’s not that island won’t let you die, it won’t let you kill yourself until you pay your retribution. People die all the time, and the island kills when it feels you’ve made amends (Eko, Boone).

  170. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199581"][quote comment="199576"]
    Good stuff! He was also in the photos that naomi was going through, along with Miles charrolet an Daniel. Could Widmore be lying to them as well.[/quote]Oh, I think so. They too would be committed. Charlotte wants to study the island as well as Danielle. Their mission was to get the gas turned inert…now they are doing what THEY wanted to do. Remeber what basically is the MO of all evil empires…use people to get what you want, then kill them to keep it for yourself.[/quote]

    —-But what can those for possibly offer him. Hes go the means and the resources already. Just to keep them quit.

  171. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="199568"][quote comment="199563"][quote comment="199546"]
    OK, so the people from the boat kill Danielle and Carl and kidnap Alex. Then they use her to manipulate Ben, just as Ben would do with other people.
    [/quote]
    While that is just as viable as my solution… WHY did Ben pick that moment, just then, to talk to them alone AND send them off (alone) with a ‘special’ map… just for them? It could have been a map solely to drive them in to his ambush. Temple – Shmemple! I bet that map’s not worth the Dharma paper it was printed on. Alex was most likely Ben’s target, not Widmores’ target.[/quote]

    I just think it is AWFULLY fishy that Ben sent Rousseau, Carl and Alex off and a sharpshooter gets Carl and Rousseau, but NOT Alex. There wasn’t a spray of bullets, just a few fairly precise hits. I agree that Ben sent C&R to their deaths to limit the people to come between him and Alex.

    I hope they still find a way to do a Rousseau flashback because I really want to know what happened on that island for sixteen years!

    : ) P

  172. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199583"][quote comment="199581"][quote comment="199576"]
    Good stuff! He was also in the photos that naomi was going through, along with Miles charrolet an Daniel. Could Widmore be lying to them as well.[/quote]Oh, I think so. They too would be committed. Charlotte wants to study the island as well as Danielle. Their mission was to get the gas turned inert…now they are doing what THEY wanted to do. Remeber what basically is the MO of all evil empires…use people to get what you want, then kill them to keep it for yourself.[/quote]

    —-But what can those for possibly offer him. Hes go the means and the resources already. Just to keep them quit.[/quote]
    As an evil empire, you need lackey’s to do your dirty work. If you do it yourself, you can get killed. What better lackey’s than those that are motivated? Frank wants to find his friend and Charlotte wants to learn more about the DHARMA stuff and Faraday wants to study properties of the island. He gets them to do his dirty work, then offs them.

  173. Toeknee says:

    I agree with those who said it’s Ben’s people who shot Karl and Danielle, and he drew the map to lead them into a trap. But if that is indeed true, how did he communicate with the people who did the shooting?

    Also, how was he able to call the boat? Is there some sort of 411 system for short wave radios or whatever they were using?

  174. skweez says:

    [quote comment="199587"]I agree with those who said it’s Ben’s people who shot Karl and Danielle, and he drew the map to lead them into a trap. But if that is indeed true, how did he communicate with the people who did the shooting?

    Also, how was he able to call the boat? Is there some sort of 411 system for short wave radios or whatever they were using?[/quote]

    Just like he communicated with Harper, he communicated with the folks at the Temple. As far as calling the boat goes, I believe that the same people that gave him the info about Widmore and where the freighter would be, gave him the info on how to contact the boat.

  175. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199585"]I just think it is AWFULLY fishy that Ben sent Rousseau, Carl and Alex off and a sharpshooter gets Carl and Rousseau, but NOT Alex. There wasn’t a spray of bullets, just a few fairly precise hits. I agree that Ben sent C&R to their deaths to limit the people to come between him and Alex.

    I hope they still find a way to do a Rousseau flashback because I really want to know what happened on that island for sixteen years!

    : ) P[/quote]You are onto something, we haven’t learned anything about the sharpshooter. He may be another Ben plant on the boat. We didn’t see the shooter, so we don’t have to assume that Frank was with him while he was doing it. And the sharpshooter was adament that Frank NOT be late…had a date with an ambushee??
    Which also has me thinking about the list Ben asked Michael for. Ben needs to let Michael know who he is supposed to kill and not kill…innocents or Ben’s plants?

  176. skweez says:

    [quote comment="199585"][quote comment="199568"][quote comment="199563"][quote comment="199546"]
    OK, so the people from the boat kill Danielle and Carl and kidnap Alex. Then they use her to manipulate Ben, just as Ben would do with other people.
    [/quote]
    While that is just as viable as my solution… WHY did Ben pick that moment, just then, to talk to them alone AND send them off (alone) with a ‘special’ map… just for them? It could have been a map solely to drive them in to his ambush. Temple – Shmemple! I bet that map’s not worth the Dharma paper it was printed on. Alex was most likely Ben’s target, not Widmores’ target.I just think it is AWFULLY fishy that Ben sent Rousseau, Carl and Alex off and a sharpshooter gets Carl and Rousseau, but NOT Alex. There wasn’t a spray of bullets, just a few fairly precise hits. I agree that Ben sent C&R to their deaths to limit the people to come between him and Alex.

    I hope they still find a way to do a Rousseau flashback because I really want to know what happened on that island for sixteen years!

    : ) P[/quote][/quote]We’ll see a Rousseau flashback because she’s not dead.

  177. Amy says:

    I have not read every post and every comment, so I may be throwing something out there that is old and tired, but what about the island being a magical place that some just do not die on? I mean, look at ageless Richard (I think someone called him this earlier). And now Michael can’t die. And we already know the island healed Rose and Locke.

    I feel like this episode really leads us to more conclusions about the island.

  178. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199563"][quote comment="199546"]
    OK, so the people from the boat kill Danielle and Carl and kidnap Alex. Then they use her to manipulate Ben, just as Ben would do with other people.
    [/quote]
    While that is just as viable as my solution… WHY did Ben pick that moment, just then, to talk to them alone AND send them off (alone) with a ‘special’ map… just for them? It could have been a map solely to drive them in to his ambush. Temple – Shmemple! I bet that map’s not worth the Dharma paper it was printed on. Alex was most likely Ben’s target, not Widmores’ target.

    (sidebar: How cool did Ben look in his Hugh Hefner jammies talking on his hamm-radio to Michael? I expected Miss December to stroll out and perch on his lap, then give him a peck on the cheek.)[/quote]
    ————
    Karl had his hands around Alex and then they showed Ben staring right at them. And then he gives them the map. You are on to something Doc.
    Is Alex REALLY Ben’s daughter? Did he and Rousseaou meet off the island and then he had her stranded there at 8 months pregnant?
    Im sure they have a Rousseau flashback coming PJ Sander….or maybe she will be in another one of Ben’s.

  179. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199588"]
    Just like he communicated with Harper, he communicated with the folks at the Temple. As far as calling the boat goes, I believe that the same people that gave him the info about Widmore and where the freighter would be, gave him the info on how to contact the boat.[/quote]
    I thought about the Harper angle, but I’m still leaning towards that appearance of Harper being a manifestation of Smokey, because we heard the whispers. But I may very well be wrong about that.

    Good point on the contacting the boat explanation.

  180. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199586"][quote comment="199583"][quote comment="199581"][quote comment="199576"]
    Good stuff! He was also in the photos that naomi was going through, along with Miles charrolet an Daniel. Could Widmore be lying to them as well.[/quote]Oh, I think so. They too would be committed. Charlotte wants to study the island as well as Danielle. Their mission was to get the gas turned inert…now they are doing what THEY wanted to do. Remeber what basically is the MO of all evil empires…use people to get what you want, then kill them to keep it for yourself.[/quote]

    —-But what can those for possibly offer him. Hes go the means and the resources already. Just to keep them quit.[/quote]
    As an evil empire, you need lackey’s to do your dirty work. If you do it yourself, you can get killed. What better lackey’s than those that are motivated? Frank wants to find his friend and Charlotte wants to learn more about the DHARMA stuff and Faraday wants to study properties of the island. He gets them to do his dirty work, then offs them.[/quote]

    —-Aaaaaahhhh don’t know. What dirty work could they do. Hes got a boat full of mercs. I guess if they are just a distraction or the fall guy. Just doesn’t sound like a very good plan. Kinda like Naomi was say to the tall black guy ( I forget his name).

  181. Amy says:

    [quote comment="199578"]Locke’s on law and order on USA[/quote]

    I also noticed this weekend that he plays the dad on the original “Cutting Edge.”

  182. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199587"]I agree with those who said it’s Ben’s people who shot Karl and Danielle, and he drew the map to lead them into a trap. But if that is indeed true, how did he communicate with the people who did the shooting?

    Also, how was he able to call the boat? Is there some sort of 411 system for short wave radios or whatever they were using?[/quote]

    Did anyone get a good look at that map? Just me or did it look a lot like the map Daniel had?

  183. Hammer says:

    The Temple. Ben told Alex that it wasn’t for “them” just for “us”. I am thinking that it is a “do all” type of station. Maybe has communications equip., but more importantly being a hidden sanctuary. Maybe it is “hatch like” in that it would protect against another purge as well. Alpert led them there, so we can assume (since Karl mentioned it) that only a select few know about it.

  184. skweez says:

    [quote comment="199593"][quote comment="199588"]
    Just like he communicated with Harper, he communicated with the folks at the Temple. As far as calling the boat goes, I believe that the same people that gave him the info about Widmore and where the freighter would be, gave him the info on how to contact the boat. I thought about the Harper angle, but I’m still leaning towards that appearance of Harper being a manifestation of Smokey, because we heard the whispers. But I may very well be wrong about that.

    Good point on the contacting the boat explanation.[/quote][/quote]

    If I’m not mistaken, D&C stated in one of the more recent podcasts that Harper is still on the island.

  185. RAY says:

    I know there is someone out there who read the obituary for the coffin…was the name close to Kevin Johnson?

  186. jonathan says:

    tom mentions to Michael that some of the others can leave the island and come back while some don’t. Ben seems to be travelling back and forth (passports and cash in the economist), so is Richard, Ethan, Tom. But can anyone explain to me the following : when Sawyer and Kate are held prisonners in season 3, they are forced to work (remember when Sawyer is breaking rocks). Well one of the others at that point tells Sawyer that they are building a runway. Why would they build a runway??? how does that relate to the going back and forth thing? Who are they waiting for. Or are they preparing for leaving, since they know by then that Widmore’s people are coming?

  187. Michael says:

    Charrolet mentions to Juliet that “you know what Ben can due”. But what does Charrolet no about Ben. The only reson i bring that up is of the map they have and the map Ben gives his daughter.

  188. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199596"]
    —-Aaaaaahhhh don’t know. What dirty work could they do. Hes got a boat full of mercs. I guess if they are just a distraction or the fall guy. Just doesn’t sound like a very good plan. Kinda like Naomi was say to the tall black guy ( I forget his name).[/quote]Don’t mean to sound snobby, but the dirty work is obvious: Turn off the gas(they risk their lives, not him), infiltrate the Ben’s people(they risk their lives, not him) catch Ben Linus (they risk their lives, not him), get on the island (they get the side effects, not him)…

  189. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199600"]
    If I’m not mistaken, D&C stated in one of the more recent podcasts that Harper is still on the island.[/quote]
    I think they said we will see more of her in future episodes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s still alive. We could see her in someone’s FB. Regardless, it hasn’t been proven that Smokey can’t manifest itself as a living person.

  190. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199525"][quote comment="199516"]
    or did tom just switch guns w/ mike and gave him a faulty one?[/quote]
    I was working on this one myself, since the bomb was a fake, the gun could have been a switch a roo too. But how about the car crash, Tom or Ben didn’t seem to be part of that and Libby got involved as well, and she’s dead (whisperer?)[/quote]
    ——–
    I was thinking that the guy who sold Michael the gun was maybe Mr. Hawkins. Like Des and the wedding ring. Maybe he sold him a rigged gun.

  191. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199604"][quote comment="199596"]
    —-Aaaaaahhhh don’t know. What dirty work could they do. Hes got a boat full of mercs. I guess if they are just a distraction or the fall guy. Just doesn’t sound like a very good plan. Kinda like Naomi was say to the tall black guy ( I forget his name).[/quote]Don’t mean to sound snobby, but the dirty work is obvious: Turn off the gas(they risk their lives, not him), infiltrate the Ben’s people(they risk their lives, not him) catch Ben Linus (they risk their lives, not him), get on the island (they get the side effects, not him)…[/quote]

    —–
    WOw. it was obvious. not snoddy at all. Thanks.

  192. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199605"][quote comment="199600"]
    If I’m not mistaken, D&C stated in one of the more recent podcasts that Harper is still on the island.[/quote]
    I think they said we will see more of her in future episodes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s still alive. We could see her in someone’s FB. Regardless, it hasn’t been proven that Smokey can’t manifest itself as a living person.[/quote]
    Actually, I think they said something to the effect of we may see more of her because “we didn’t kill her” when talking about Harper. I still think that the Harper we/Juliette saw was a manifestation of the smokemonster/security system for dramatic effect.

  193. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199601"]I know there is someone out there who read the obituary for the coffin…was the name close to Kevin Johnson?[/quote]
    No, it was more like Jeremy Bentham or something. But that could be another alias Michael picks up after finishing up with the freighters. The rest of the obit seems to point towards Michael (man from NY, teenage son, suicide).

  194. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199607"]

    —–
    WOw. it was obvious. not snoddy at all. Thanks.[/quote]Cool.

  195. omar says:

    hey whats up losties….baby aaron is not the last survivor of the oceanic 6, but in fact its vincent, thats right, the dog….he is part of the oceanic 6 and thats who is in the coffin…come on get real who ever said that is lost, litterally.

  196. omar says:

    so that other is gay????

  197. Hammer says:

    Here’s my looking way too far into it question of the night:

    Why did Michael have to have a room mate at the hospital and why did they show him, any thoughts?

  198. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199615"]Here’s my looking way too far into it question of the night:

    Why did Michael have to have a room mate at the hospital and why did they show him, any thoughts?[/quote]
    ——-
    It looked like INMAN.

  199. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199602"]tom mentions to Michael that some of the others can leave the island and come back while some don’t. Ben seems to be travelling back and forth (passports and cash in the economist), so is Richard, Ethan, Tom. But can anyone explain to me the following : when Sawyer and Kate are held prisonners in season 3, they are forced to work (remember when Sawyer is breaking rocks). Well one of the others at that point tells Sawyer that they are building a runway. Why would they build a runway??? how does that relate to the going back and forth thing? Who are they waiting for. Or are they preparing for leaving, since they know by then that Widmore’s people are coming?[/quote]
    Part of me thinks that they weren’t really building a runway and that Ben, Tom, etc just told that to certain people like Juliet who weren’t “in the know” about what they were really doing.

    But, another part of me believes that it was a runway and they were doing that for their own use, to go to and from the island. That would be a quicker mode of transportation than the sub.

  200. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199613"]hey whats up losties….baby aaron is not the last survivor of the oceanic 6, but in fact its vincent, thats right, the dog….he is part of the oceanic 6 and thats who is in the coffin…come on get real who ever said that is lost, litterally.[/quote]
    The guy that posted that is an old friend of mine, he was joking (didn’t you see the :)?). He’s a Lost fan with a dry sense of humor.

  201. Missy says:

    [quote comment="199505"][quote comment="199496"]Any ideas on who is in the coffin? I thought it was going to be Michael but not after watching this episode…still could be I suppose.[/quote]I think it’s Karl. (grin)[/quote]

    What about Lapidus? He could die – and he must make it back from the island right? If the helicopter does…

  202. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199615"]Here’s my looking way too far into it question of the night:

    Why did Michael have to have a room mate at the hospital and why did they show him, any thoughts?[/quote]
    Makes sense he would have a roommate – they’d give him cheap “accomodations”, being that he had no ID on him, and presumably couldn’t pay for his expenses.

    I thought the roommate looked a bit like Alvar Hanso, based on his appearance in one of those Lost Experience videos…check it out here:

    Why it would be Hanso, I have no idea – nothing came of it. Maybe just an Easter Egg (a few days early).

  203. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199616"][quote comment="199615"]Here’s my looking way too far into it question of the night:

    Why did Michael have to have a room mate at the hospital and why did they show him, any thoughts?[/quote]
    ——-
    It looked like INMAN.[/quote]Close Inman’s nose is longer and he has different shaped ears.

  204. omar says:

    I think the whole coffin thing is irrelevent to the show, and that jack was just hopped up on drugs and pain pills and hopped into a funeral home for no reason at all…

  205. omar says:

    Did micheal trade jins watch for the gun??

  206. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199489"]Ut oh people, we are dangerously close to the Shark Jumping moment. There are some things that just don’t add up. Hopefully they will rectify these things, but “Meet Kevin Johnson” just may be the episode we point to to describe the SJM.[/quote]
    Not sure why you’d say this. I liked this episode.

    Good luck to your Hoyas tomorrow, RGS (that was very difficult for me to say, being an Orange fan)

  207. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199620"][quote comment="199615"]Here’s my looking way too far into it question of the night:

    Why did Michael have to have a room mate at the hospital and why did they show him, any thoughts?[/quote]
    Makes sense he would have a roommate – they’d give him cheap “accomodations”, being that he had no ID on him, and presumably couldn’t pay for his expenses.

    I thought the roommate looked a bit like Alvar Hanso, based on his appearance in one of those Lost Experience videos…check it out here:

    Why it would be Hanso, I have no idea – nothing came of it. Maybe just an Easter Egg (a few days early).[/quote]
    Maybe Hanso. In TLE he was dying or was at risk of heart problems(per Persophone’s message about his blood sample she took).

  208. Gypsy says:

    In response to Hammer’s question about Michael’s roommate in the hospital, I think there was a definite reason they showed him. In the first clip the roommate is on a ventilator and in the next clip he has an oxygen mask. That would seem to indicate that some amount of time had passed between the first time Michael looked over at him and the second time he looked over. I’m not sure what that means – that Libby really wasn’t a vision but was really there or something else.

  209. NoNonsenseGal says:

    After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going

  210. Anon says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]
    Really? It is the 21st century ya know

  211. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199626"]In response to Hammer’s question about Michael’s roommate in the hospital, I think there was a definite reason they showed him. In the first clip the roommate is on a ventilator and in the next clip he has an oxygen mask. That would seem to indicate that some amount of time had passed between the first time Michael looked over at him and the second time he looked over. I’m not sure what that means – that Libby really wasn’t a vision but was really there or something else.[/quote]
    ———–
    watched it again. It looks like 2 different people entirely.

  212. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199626"]In response to Hammer’s question about Michael’s roommate in the hospital, I think there was a definite reason they showed him. In the first clip the roommate is on a ventilator and in the next clip he has an oxygen mask. That would seem to indicate that some amount of time had passed between the first time Michael looked over at him and the second time he looked over. I’m not sure what that means – that Libby really wasn’t a vision but was really there or something else.[/quote]Good catch. Michaels monitor was different after seeing Libby too.

  213. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    ok, usually i wouldn’t respond to a comment like this, but it really makes me mad, so sorry nononsensegirl, but here goes: how in the hell is a small peck on the cheek perverted? just b/c it is two men? and if this was too much for your family to see, but tons of violence and FAR more gratuitous sex scenes are not, then you have one strange sense of appropriateness

    ok, off my soapbox

  214. Anon says:

    [quote comment="199630"][quote comment="199626"]In response to Hammer’s question about Michael’s roommate in the hospital, I think there was a definite reason they showed him. In the first clip the roommate is on a ventilator and in the next clip he has an oxygen mask. That would seem to indicate that some amount of time had passed between the first time Michael looked over at him and the second time he looked over. I’m not sure what that means – that Libby really wasn’t a vision but was really there or something else.[/quote]Good catch. Michaels monitor was different after seeing Libby too.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    These are all reasons why I think the first part, including the appearance of Libby, was a dream.

  215. jonathan says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    Lost is an intelligent and very reasonable show. If you can’t take a kiss on the cheek, what show can you still watch on American Tv?
    You have to face the fact that gay people exist as we all do. Like them or not, we have to accept their existence in society as well as on tv. A kiss on the cheek, really…
    Too bad if you stop watching that great show for this…

  216. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199632"]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    These are all reasons why I think the first part, including the appearance of Libby, was a dream.[/quote]
    My thought is no more valid than yours. I just feel that they have done so many manifestations in the past that there is no reason to think that Libby isn’t one as well.

  217. omar says:

    mann all yall lost fans are more crazy than the characters themselves…maybe yall should get lost together on some island in the south pacific and call me in 3 months and let me know who is still alive…

  218. avalanche says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    i will follow the rules of this blog and “be nice.” i am saddenend for you and will not be mean. i am sad for you because your bigotry and ignorance will prevent you from building relationships with a large swatch of the global population and therefore you will not make the most of your time on this earth. you are someone who is closed off to ideas that are strange and different from yours. you are limiting your ability to understand something and therefore limiting your own humanity–that is sad. i have always despised when someone uses the term “human nature” in a limiting fashion (ie: there will always be thieves–it’s human nature). i try to focus on what is good about human nature and i believe it is our ability to learn and share. these are the qualities that make being human an unlimitable thing. you have missed the point of “lost.” this is a tv show about differences thrown together in the crucible. you have really missed the point–but not just of this tv show but of living itself!

  219. 108 says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo… 8′(

  220. omar says:

    dam avalanche, didnt know you felt so strongly about the show….wow

  221. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199632"][~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    These are all reasons why I think the first part, including the appearance of Libby, was a dream.[/quote]
    I’m curious, do you think that her second appearance (on the boat with the bomb) was a dream as well?

  222. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199640"]dam avalanche, didnt know you felt so strongly about the show….wow[/quote]
    Everyone who visits or comments on this blog feels “so strongly about the show” or you wouldn’t be here.

  223. omar says:

    thats true hammer, i would have no less..

  224. avalanche says:

    [quote comment="199640"]dam avalanche, didnt know you felt so strongly about the show….wow[/quote]

    i do. i have a degree in literature and a passion for sci fi. i have always said that a good sci-fi show is just another theatre for the human experience. this show has more humanity in it than just about anything else on tv. i do, however, feel more strongly about ignorance and bigotry. that little kiss was a nod to another cultural difference–one of thousands that populate a show about those differences. this show has been about the “us” and “them” since the beginning. i believe the answers to the show’s other mysteries will have a lot to do about understanding who is really with us or against us–who is an other–and who is a “good” guy.

  225. Hammer says:

    Funny line of the night: Tom to Michael: “…figured flying can’t be too much fun for you.”

  226. avalanche says:

    sorry if being to debbie downer–my favorite funny line–last night he had a gun to his head today he’s eating pound cake. . .

  227. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199645"]Funny line of the night: Tom to Michael: “…figured flying can’t be too much fun for you.”[/quote]
    ——–
    I thought it was Naomi to MIchael ” I can tell by your accent”

  228. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199646"]sorry if being to debbie downer–my favorite funny line–last night he had a gun to his head today he’s eating pound cake. . .[/quote]
    Yeah, that was funny too. How about, those nuts that think the moon landing was fake, but this is real…LOL…

  229. jonathan says:

    [quote comment="199638"][quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    i will follow the rules of this blog and “be nice.” i am saddenend for you and will not be mean. i am sad for you because your bigotry and ignorance will prevent you from building relationships with a large swatch of the global population and therefore you will not make the most of your time on this earth. you are someone who is closed off to ideas that are strange and different from yours. you are limiting your ability to understand something and therefore limiting your own humanity–that is sad. i have always despised when someone uses the term “human nature” in a limiting fashion (ie: there will always be thieves–it’s human nature). i try to focus on what is good about human nature and i believe it is our ability to learn and share. these are the qualities that make being human an unlimitable thing. you have missed the point of “lost.” this is a tv show about differences thrown together in the crucible. you have really missed the point–but not just of this tv show but of living itself![/quote]

    Thumbs up avalanche!

  230. avalanche says:

    thanks jonathan. and thank you hammer-your coments are always worth reading. i am going to sleep now but i’ll be thinking about ben. didn’t he say they know what i am. what??? not who. he also pointed out that he didn’t ask for michael to kill anyone. has he been good all along? what about that craziness to juliette after she saw goodwin’s body. “you are mine!”

  231. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199649"][quote comment="199638"][quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    i will follow the rules of this blog and “be nice.” i am saddenend for you and will not be mean. i am sad for you because your bigotry and ignorance will prevent you from building relationships with a large swatch of the global population and therefore you will not make the most of your time on this earth. you are someone who is closed off to ideas that are strange and different from yours. you are limiting your ability to understand something and therefore limiting your own humanity–that is sad. i have always despised when someone uses the term “human nature” in a limiting fashion (ie: there will always be thieves–it’s human nature). i try to focus on what is good about human nature and i believe it is our ability to learn and share. these are the qualities that make being human an unlimitable thing. you have missed the point of “lost.” this is a tv show about differences thrown together in the crucible. you have really missed the point–but not just of this tv show but of living itself![/quote]

    Thumbs up avalanche![/quote]
    ——————
    i think the non should be removed from her name…no sense gal

  232. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199650"]thanks jonathan. and thank you hammer-your coments are always worth reading. i am going to sleep now but i’ll be thinking about ben. didn’t he say they know what i am. what??? not who. he also pointed out that he didn’t ask for michael to kill anyone. has he been good all along? what about that craziness to juliette after she saw goodwin’s body. “you are mine!”[/quote]
    Cool.

    Yeah, Ben is complicated…more news at 11:00 as they say.

  233. Hammer says:

    Okay, bedtime for Bonzo.

    Sorry 108, that’s my line. :)

    But I leave you with this to ponder:

    Is this the fourth or fifth straight episode with Widmore written all over it?

  234. Cheetos says:

    [quote comment="199484"][quote comment="199475"]Wow!! Some answers at last!! Those of you who called it that: 1. Michael and Walt got back to the main land, 2. Michael is the MOB, 3. The plane in the trench is a fake/staged crash with lots of dead bodies (though not Dharma bodies, sorry), and what else? Props to you!! Good job!
    Now here’s my question: Is Michael’s mom’s house the same one where Mile’s went to do the ghost busting? Anyone know?[/quote]

    Bodys from Tieland and the island willnot let people from the isalnd kill them selves. Did the Island stop Jack?[/quote]

    it’s Thailand, not Tieland

  235. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="199638"][quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    i will follow the rules of this blog and “be nice.” i am saddenend for you and will not be mean. i am sad for you because your bigotry and ignorance will prevent you from building relationships with a large swatch of the global population and therefore you will not make the most of your time on this earth. you are someone who is closed off to ideas that are strange and different from yours. you are limiting your ability to understand something and therefore limiting your own humanity–that is sad. i have always despised when someone uses the term “human nature” in a limiting fashion (ie: there will always be thieves–it’s human nature). i try to focus on what is good about human nature and i believe it is our ability to learn and share. these are the qualities that make being human an unlimitable thing. you have missed the point of “lost.” this is a tv show about differences thrown together in the crucible. you have really missed the point–but not just of this tv show but of living itself![/quote]

    incredibly well-said, thanks avalanche for putting this much more eloquently than my attempt!

  236. katesFriend says:

    one thing i have noticed the past few episodes that i think is strange, claire doesn’t seem to care much that charlie is gone!

    i mean, i know the writers can’t have her crying about it in every episode, but since the beginning of the end, she hasn’t even mentioned him or seemed upset in any way!

  237. Cheetos says:

    [quote comment="199651"][quote comment="199649"][quote comment="199638"][quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    i will follow the rules of this blog and “be nice.” i am saddenend for you and will not be mean. i am sad for you because your bigotry and ignorance will prevent you from building relationships with a large swatch of the global population and therefore you will not make the most of your time on this earth. you are someone who is closed off to ideas that are strange and different from yours. you are limiting your ability to understand something and therefore limiting your own humanity–that is sad. i have always despised when someone uses the term “human nature” in a limiting fashion (ie: there will always be thieves–it’s human nature). i try to focus on what is good about human nature and i believe it is our ability to learn and share. these are the qualities that make being human an unlimitable thing. you have missed the point of “lost.” this is a tv show about differences thrown together in the crucible. you have really missed the point–but not just of this tv show but of living itself![/quote]

    Thumbs up avalanche![/quote]
    ——————
    i think the non should be removed from her name…no sense gal[/quote]

    wow… and I thought this was America and the year was 2008

  238. Tom57 says:

    [quote comment="199502"]so the clip at the end says we have learned of all 6… but i only count kate, hurley, jack, sun, baby and who???
    did i miss something?[/quote]
    syid!!!!! :-)

  239. Tom57 says:

    [quote comment="199662"]one thing i have noticed the past few episodes that i think is strange, claire doesn’t seem to care much that charlie is gone!

    i mean, i know the writers can’t have her crying about it in every episode, but since the beginning of the end, she hasn’t even mentioned him or seemed upset in any way![/quote]
    Yeah but she also hasnt had alot of time to be really upset and we are only catching her at times with other people im sure if Kate was there she would cry with her. they seem to have a bond. just and idea.

  240. Tom57 says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    First of all the” jump the shark” comment does not apply here at all. I may have missed it but i did not see anything that would not happen in real life to get higher ratings. My lord two men kissed on the cheek, not that ! You really need to come out from the rock you live under and enjoy life . Some people are gay some are straight its a part of life.
    Im straight and forgot about the kiss till I read the comment I was more shocked he was alive. Did he get shot? Crazy Island. Open your mind you will enjoy life a lot more . If you cant its okay better off without people like this watching the show.

  241. leah says:

    Michael wrote:

    Good stuff! He was also in the photos that naomi was going through, along with Miles charrolet an Daniel. Could Widmore be lying to them as well.

    Oh, I think so. They too would be committed. Charlotte wants to study the island as well as Danielle. Their mission was to get the gas turned inert…now they are doing what THEY wanted to do. Remeber what basically is the MO of all evil empires…use people to get what you want, then kill them to keep it for yourself.
    ***********************************************

    good morning from sunny manchester !I see you ve been hard at it while ive been asleep.
    not seen the ep yet got another two days yet …but i d like to draw your attention to comment thirty eight,thats38 Trixanna,micheal and hammer,
    and that was before iv e even seen this ep!

  242. meathead says:

    I agree, the Tom inuedo was goofy to throw in.

  243. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199689"]
    ….
    Im straight and forgot about the kiss till I read the comment I was more shocked he was alive. Did he get shot? Crazy Island. [/quote]
    Tom appeared in a flashback that took place before he was shot. He was killed sometime after these FB’s occurred.

  244. Circus Mom says:

    KatesFriend, avalanche and the rest of you. Thank you for your responses to nononsensegirl. I wanted to immediatly post a irate response to her but decided to finish reading and calm down first. I so appreciate your responses and hope we never hear from nononsense again.

    Omar, you seemed angry or feisty tonight.

    How did Miles know that Michaels name wasn’t Kevin. Why dose he want 3.2 Mil. How dose he know so much about Ben, and is what he knows true? (I think it is but he didn’t learn from Widmore.) Up until tonight Miles seemed like a pretty evil self centered type. Tonight he just seemed sort of smug in his knowledge. If he lise and says Ben is dead will the freighter folks still want to kill everyone else on the island? I want a Miles episode.

  245. Toeknee says:

    There are some great screen-caps already up at Sledgeweb’s site: http://lost.cubit.net/index.php

    He has pictures of Michael’s roommate, the map Ben gave Alex, and the person who shot Rousseau & Karl, although you can’t tell who it is.

  246. Toeknee says:

    One interesting point brought up on Sledgeweb’s site – in the FB we see Walt in NY. But the timing of that scene is most likely very close (within a few days) to the time Locke saw “Walt” after Ben shot him (Locke). So, was that appearance of Walt (to Locke) just a manifestation of Smokey?

  247. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199748"][quote comment="199689"]
    ….
    Im straight and forgot about the kiss till I read the comment I was more shocked he was alive. Did he get shot? Crazy Island. [/quote]
    Tom appeared in a flashback that took place before he was shot. He was killed sometime after these FB’s occurred.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I had actually wondered why with all the charactors noone was gay. Statistickly (sp) someone should have been. I did have to stop the TIVO and figure out timelines to decide if Tom was alive or a manistefacion at that point. He was back on the island by the time Naomi landed there so he was alive in the flashback. Dead and burried now.

  248. Circus Mom says:

    Forgot to mention, when did the C word become polite again?

  249. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199756"]Forgot to mention, when did the C word become polite again?[/quote]
    LOL I don’t think it is, but it seems with each episode we get more evidence as to who may or may not be in there, and people just can’t help themselves.

  250. pete says:

    dont think the guys on the ship would use silencers on there guns. those bullits were very quiet.

  251. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199765"]dont think the guys on the ship would use silencers on there guns. those bullits were very quiet.[/quote]
    Good point. The use of silencers is more in line with the Others’ M.O.

  252. Rita says:

    If he lise and says Ben is dead will the freighter folks still want to kill everyone else on the island? I want a Miles episode.[/quote]

    Good question. So if Ben knows that once the tots have him, they plan to kill everyone else on the island, then he would have NO motivation to give Miles the $$ (for lying to the rest of the freighter folks about him already being dead) because he would then die anyway with everyone else. Miles just lost his bargaining chip.

  253. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199776"]If he lise and says Ben is dead will the freighter folks still want to kill everyone else on the island? I want a Miles episode.[/quote]

    Good question. So if Ben knows that once the tots have him, they plan to kill everyone else on the island, then he would have NO motivation to give Miles the $$ (for lying to the rest of the freighter folks about him already being dead) because he would then die anyway with everyone else. Miles just lost his bargaining chip.[/quote]
    **************
    Sorry, the initial quote was Circus Mom’s.

  254. TheoryNut says:

    I loved this episode! Great posts tonight too. I am very intrigued by the List request from Ben to Michael. Here we go again… Is Jacob pulling the strings again? Also I thought it was interesting that when Ben showed Alex, Danielle, and Karl/Carl the map, he said it was for us, I was understanding for the “others” and not the losties. Well, Danielle at least from the background we have is not an other, and when we first met Karl, he was in a cage across from Kate and Sawyer right? Maybe the gunshots were from the “others” and were protecting the “sacred” temple to the fullest that’s why Alex was sparred because she was Ben’s “daughter”, the other’s don’t give a c–p about Danielle. I just think it is too “magical” of a coinscidence that the Freightor assansains could have been so spot on. And Ben usually is one step ahead. I really do think Ben is a “good” guy in a crazy sort of way! The Dharma purge was justified by the island, perhaps, they were not “innocent” their intentions of using the island for their own wicked purposes… yada yada yada. Anywho. Great show.

    *Also, hey Hammer, your whisper theory rocks still! Awesome…

  255. TheoryNut says:

    Mr. Friendly … lol …

  256. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    I know that other people have already commented on this post, but I feel strongly enough that I simply cannot let it go.

    I do not understand how a hand to the back and a peck on the cheek can be considered “crossing the line of decency and good taste” let alone “perverted.” Sawyer and Kate’s semi-naked cage romp must not have crossed that line or you would have stopped watching at that point.

    Is it because Mr. Friendly and the object of his affection are both male? Women regularly greet each other this way, does that cross the line?

    You mentioned innuendo in a previous episode. Which episode is that? I didn’t see innuendo between two same-gender characters, but then again, I barely noticed it in this episode. It was far from blatant.

    You also mentioned “jumping the shark” in your post. Perhaps you don’t know the etymology of the term. It refers to an episode of Happy Days, which was beginning to suffer poor ratings. The show staged a big “stunt” episode in a desperate attempt to garner more viewers. In it, Fonzie actually JUMPS (on water skis) a SHARK (in a pen). It was a ridiculous stunt intended to try to boost ratings. It failed and the show was canceled, but the term lives on.

    This peck on the cheek was in no way a “Jump the Shark” moment. Indeed, it was an already very open-minded program offering yet another hint of diversity. From the beginning, the creators and writers have shown open-minded acceptance of all its characters. This was no different.

    Is homophobia the problem? Is it your religion that makes you think homosexuality is wrong? I ask, because that is usually the case. If you look carefully, I think you will see that the bible contains a few other “sins” that we now see as more acceptable. For example, we no longer put people to death for working on the sabbath (Exodus 31:14-15), we no longer have our elders stone (to death) our rebellious sons (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), we no longer kill adulterers (Leviticus 20:10-12), we no longer have the men in town stone (to death) non-virgin brides (Deuteronomy 22:20-21), so maybe you ought to reconsider the whole “homosexuality is a sin” thing?

    Whatever your reason for objecting to the eight seconds of affection between two men, I believe you ought to rethink abandoning the show. Sometimes it is healthy to watch, read, listen to, participate in, something that is outside one’s comfort zone. Sometimes one can learn something by considering another person’s perspective. The show is a fantasy, a morality play, diverse, science-fiction, and thought-provoking, not to mention brilliant. Give it, and yourself, another chance.

    : ) P

  257. Toeknee says:

    Great post, PJ

  258. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199779"]I loved this episode! Great posts tonight too. I am very intrigued by the List request from Ben to Michael. Here we go again… Is Jacob pulling the strings again? Also I thought it was interesting that when Ben showed Alex, Danielle, and Karl/Carl the map, he said it was for us, I was understanding for the “others” and not the losties. Well, Danielle at least from the background we have is not an other, and when we first met Karl, he was in a cage across from Kate and Sawyer right? Maybe the gunshots were from the “others” and were protecting the “sacred” temple to the fullest that’s why Alex was sparred because she was Ben’s “daughter”, the other’s don’t give a c–p about Danielle. I just think it is too “magical” of a coinscidence that the Freightor assansains could have been so spot on. And Ben usually is one step ahead. I really do think Ben is a “good” guy in a crazy sort of way! The Dharma purge was justified by the island, perhaps, they were not “innocent” their intentions of using the island for their own wicked purposes… yada yada yada. Anywho. Great show.

    *Also, hey Hammer, your whisper theory rocks still! Awesome…[/quote]
    Also, why didn’t Rouseau object when Ben called Alex “his” daughter? If he really kidnapped her as an infant and raised her himself, wouldn’t Rouseau be a bit more upset about it? Why would she consent to living there with Ben and allowing him to call Alex “his”? Maybe…..she IS his?

  259. deangoodes says:

    I definitely think Ben had Rousseau and Carl killed. That was a sharpshooter taking them out. I think the scene on the freighter was put there on purpose to show they were NOT good shots. They had a machine gun with dozens of bullets flying and still only hit the one clay pigeon. Plus, they had no need to kill Rousseau and Carl, they could have taken all three. Only Ben would have something to gain (Alex) by killing those two.

    And Walt in his room looked like a short Walt again, although that could have just been how it looked with a high windowsill.

    The car Michael drove into the barrier was a Plymouth Volare (A Dodge Aspen is possible, they are exactly the same except for the logos, which I think were Plymouth), about a ’76. I had one for a few years in the 80’s.

    Why did Ben not have any scars or injuries or bruises when he was in his jammies??? Hasn’t he been getting beat up pretty regularly for some time now??

  260. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199798"]
    Also, why didn’t Rouseau object when Ben called Alex “his” daughter? If he really kidnapped her as an infant and raised her himself, wouldn’t Rouseau be a bit more upset about it? Why would she consent to living there with Ben and allowing him to call Alex “his”? Maybe…..she IS his?[/quote]
    In past episodes, Rousseau has been more “firm” in her dealings with Ben – she hit him one or two of the times that he tried to talk to Alex back in the season 3 finale. At this point, Locke apparently has decided that Ben can be treated as more of an ally than a prisoner, so maybe Rousseau didn’t want to hit him again because it would piss off Locke? She did give him a dirty look, if that counts for anything.

  261. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199800"]
    Why did Ben not have any scars or injuries or bruises when he was in his jammies??? Hasn’t he been getting beat up pretty regularly for some time now??[/quote]
    Are you talking about the scene where Miles was brought in? I thought Ben’s face was somewhat bruised in that scene. There was another scene from Michael’s FB where his face was all cleaned up.

    BTW dean – good job by your Badgers last night. Did you watch the game or Lost? That’s one of the more difficult decisions in life, huh?

  262. RGS says:

    I thought the episode was just…there. I don’t know what to call it. Toe, you asked why I thought it was close to SJM (which for me means it is the moment where we can visibly see the writing going downhill, and thus the show too…great post btw PJ and all that commented on nononsense, and I’m not gay, not that there’s anything wrong with it) so here goes.

    Post 1
    To clear up my point, and I will need to watch the episode again, though I don’t feel the show JTS, it is dangerously close to that line because some things don’t make sense to me right now. I’m not going to be bullheaded about it, and open to hear everyone’s thoughts, but I’m struggling with this episode. I have quite a few questions so much so that I will have to break down this post into several smaller ones in the hopes that someone can answer something.

    Michael: So we are to believe that he can not convince his son that they should be ecstatic to have gotten off that deserted island, and have been reunited from a kidnapping? His son would be so mad at him, for the nitty gritty details of their escape from that hell hole, that it would drive Mike to suicide?

    I didn’t get an answer as to why Mike couldn’t say, “Mom, (his own mother won’t let him see his son????) we crashed on that plane, we were on an island with some crazy folks, there are other survivors left behind, but I have no way of knowing how to get back there.” If folks are saying well he’d have to tell what he did to get off that island, it’s Mike’s word against a lying Ben, who would probably not be around to go to court anyway, let alone be a trusted witness. Who from the island would testify against Mike for coming back and rescuing them? Wouldn’t that be the redemption Mike needed in order to get back his son’s respect? I needed for there to be more of a reason for Mike’s silence about the island upon his return.

  263. RGS says:

    Post 2
    Ok, so let’s say Mike’s going crazy. Friendly slips him the rigged gun (I like that theory, though it is awfully coincidental that he has the same gun) he realizes he can’t kill himself (an awfully quick recovery from his car accident, with no air bags because this all takes place is less than 2 months) and agrees to helping his former kidnappers…because he feels the only way out of his situation is suicide? So then Mike is portrayed as a punk…fine.

    “I’ll help you guys so I can kill myself and protect my new best friends I made on the island.” So this means he blindly trusts, the people who kidnapped his son, and as far as he knows has done who knows what to Jack and co., that it is actually Widmore who is evil and must be stopped at all costs?

  264. RGS says:

    Post 3
    Gets on boat with his special delivery, has to wait til he’s at sea, sees that it is a bomb. Realizes ok, they want me to detonate the bomb to destroy this ship and stop them from getting there. Cool, I’ll do it. (Enter Libby and her plea to seemingly stop him, from preventing Widmore from finding the island…that is another matter). Up pops note, “Not yet,” or whatever.

    So now Ben talks to him on phone. “Mike, I don’t kill innocents, the peeps on the freightor are innocent but Widmore is not.” As far as Mike knows, this makes sense to him and he can “trust” Ben I suppose. We as viewers have to know Ben is lying through his teeth yet again. (again another side issue because I do realize that some of you believe Ben can actually be a “good” character). Yet he instructs Mike to sabotage the engines and cut off communications. So he wants the freightor folk to die from their free will, but not from him bombing them. So Ben’s intent is the same, he just wants to go about it a different way to ease his conscience????

  265. RGS says:

    Post 4 (Thanks for any and all help???)
    I am not seeing where some of you have pointed out Mike’s redemption and thus the island then allowing whatever to take place with regard to him.
    Ben has killed innocents, and at a minimum attempted to kill innocents. You can debate the killing of his father. You can’t debate him trying to kill Locke, ordering Others to kill “anyone who gets in their way,” putting in motion the hanging of Charlie, putting in motion the killing of the freightor folk, putting in motion the killing of Goodwin and his ”rejoicing” over his death.

    I didn’t like how Locketown plainly accepted Ben’s word that if they turned him over he’d be killed. They didn’t show why Ben revealing Mike was his man, was enough of a revelation to Locke that he had to set him free? I mean if you want him at the dinner table, why not keep him tied up? I’m just not quite following that Ben has done enough to have gained that much trust.

    Assuming Widmore put the plane at the bottom of the ocean to prevent folks from looking for it a la Amelia Earhart’s plane. He keeps the freightor folk in the dark. “Just get Ben.” The Captain better not turn out to be one of Ben’s men, which could explain his lack of reaction when Sayid bring him in. Why wouldn’t Sayid do that, he doesn’t trust Ben. Why would Mike be helping Sayid and Desmond out (unlocking door) knowing that it could expose his true identity, especially since Mike is working for Ben who has shown to be the Losties enemy?

  266. lucky says:

    this show is officially ridiculous. I used to be a fan but how is it that Walt & Michael return alive from the island, back to Brooklyn, and nobody from the neighborhood (or the media) catches on to this or notices this???

  267. Paul says:

    WOW!! That was a great one. Well, here is my 2 cents:

    All throughout LOST, people from the past have been appearing ( Shannon to Boone, Kate’s horse to Kate, the polar bear from Walt’s comic, Jack’s dad, etc…) Walt has powers to look at an image and bring it to life as we have seen with the bird from the book he was reading(episode when he was with his Mom and her new husband). But then the bird flew into the window and died. I believe that the OTHERS helped Walt harness his ability and are using him to manipulate everyone else. That is why Libby appeared to Michael, as an attempt by Walt to get Michael to stop.

    And what is up with FW (Fake Walt) in the window. LOL.
    Mr. Friendly – a little too friendly with that guy in the hotel room.

  268. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199811"]this show is officially ridiculous. I used to be a fan but how is it that Walt & Michael return alive from the island, back to Brooklyn, and nobody from the neighborhood (or the media) catches on to this or notices this???[/quote]

    Not everyone in the neighborhood would know Mike’s business. I’m sure in this day and age it is not uncommon to know whether your neighbor has gone on vacation, taken a flight somewhere etc. Walt wasn’t living with Mike b4, so that part may not be so much of a mystery, thus I can sorta stomach that, but yes the media may dig around and catch wind of the situation and it would be problematic.

  269. Lins says:

    Wow, can we please just put the all the comments about Mr. Friendly being gay to rest now? Who cares if someone was offended by it? I don’t think the purpose of this site is to debate people’s religious or moral views. Can we please just discuss the show here?

    That being said…I do agree that it was Ben’s people that shot Danielle and Carl. I totally think it was a set up to keep Alex “safe”, i.e. on the island and not pregnant!

    Ben is sounding more believable every time we see him…it makes much more sense that Widmore/Paik could have planted the fake plane. I’m also wondering if Sayid is already working for Ben (they had some alone time together in the Other’s rec room area to talk when Sayid went to trade Miles for Charlotte) so maybe he was just letting Michael/Kevin die like he wanted so he could take over Ben’s job.

    Thanks and please keep it kind and helpful!!

  270. Toeknee says:

    RGS – you bring up a lot of good points. I’ll try to address some of them in future posts, if others here don’t beat me to it. But first I’ll say that watching Lost, as with many shows, frequently requires either a suspension of disbelief, or faith in the writers, or both. Perhaps more satisfactory answers will come in future episodes, perhaps not. For a show that requires a good deal of analysis (and overanalysis), there are a lot of seeming plot holes, unrealistic actions by the characters, and continuity errors that you wouldn’t expect to be see. I chalk some of that up to the fact that they are indeed making up a lot of the details as they go along (not that there’s anything wrong with that), so there’s bound to be inconsistencies – for example the character Harper was obviously not in the scenes from season 3 where the Others witness OA815 crashing, but she was shown there in The Other Woman. Personally I’m not so obsessed with details like that, but I know a lot of people who find certain inconsistencies like that completely irritating and feel it cheapens the show.

  271. Gup says:

    RGS- you bring up a lot of good points. Re: post 1- Michael- I felt that Michael probably told Walt how he was able to get them off the island as they fled in the boat. Walt, being only 10, doesn’t understand how Michael could kill. Walt was also closer to fellow Losties than Michael was. So now Walt wants nothing to do with his father.
    Now they are back in NY and how would they explain that they were on the plane that crashed and they are the only two that survived? They are forced to live under assumed identities- not sure how they do this successfully though w/Michael’s mother involved.

  272. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="199566"][quote comment="199561"][quote comment="199558"][quote comment="199551"][quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”[/quote]
    Absolutely this is a good catch. Ben’s been saying he’s the good one all along…made another statement about not killing innocents…hmmmm.[/quote]
    ————-
    this is a great catch…..from LOSTPEDIA[/quote]
    Well, it would be nice to credit where you find things…but it’s still a good find.[/quote]
    ————-
    Maybe I’m missing something on this…but for timeline sake….the Paik “D.O.C.” Flash was just after Sun & Jin were married (prostitute mommy pointed to the wedding pic in the paper)….why would he be buying a faux plane for the faux crash 4 years (according to Ji Yeon they were married in 2000) before the 815 flight?

  273. deangoodes says:

    We do not know that Miles knows Michael is not Kevin Johnson. After he said you’re not Kevin Johnson he went on to say 80% of the people on this boat aren’t who they say they are or have something to hide. I think by saying that he was making a broad comment towards Michael and not directly saying to him I know who you really are.

  274. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199808"]Post 3
    …..
    So now Ben talks to him on phone. “Mike, I don’t kill innocents, the peeps on the freightor are innocent but Widmore is not.” As far as Mike knows, this makes sense to him and he can “trust” Ben I suppose. We as viewers have to know Ben is lying through his teeth yet again. (again another side issue because I do realize that some of you believe Ben can actually be a “good” character)…..[/quote]
    I didn’t have too much of a problem believing this aspect of the episode. I’m still uncertain about whether or not to believe Ben is lying about Widmore wanting to kill everyone on the island – right now I think it’s more likely that Ben is a “good” guy than Widmore is. And Michael – his first confrontation with Tom showed us that he doesn’t trust them. But given time to think about it, perhaps realizing that Ben did indeed keep his word about letting Michael and Walt leave the island, seeing the evidence that seems compelling about Widmore’s alleged faking of the OA815 crash (Michael doesn’t exactly have the means to investigate whether that’s true or not), and for whatever reason not physically being able to kill himself, he came to believe what Tom said. Maybe us viewers who know way more about what’s been going on than Michael does don’t think Michael should trust Tom and Ben, but Michael doesn’t know that much, and at this point in his live it’s not like he has a whole lot to live for, so I found it believable that he’d go along with Tom and Ben’s scheme.

  275. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199821"][quote comment="199566"][quote comment="199561"][quote comment="199558"][quote comment="199551"][quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”[/quote]
    Absolutely this is a good catch. Ben’s been saying he’s the good one all along…made another statement about not killing innocents…hmmmm.[/quote]
    ————-
    this is a great catch…..from LOSTPEDIA[/quote]
    Well, it would be nice to credit where you find things…but it’s still a good find.[/quote]
    ————-
    Maybe I’m missing something on this…but for timeline sake….the Paik “D.O.C.” Flash was just after Sun & Jin were married (prostitute mommy pointed to the wedding pic in the paper)….why would he be buying a faux plane for the faux crash 4 years (according to Ji Yeon they were married in 2000) before the 815 flight?[/quote]
    ___________________________________________
    Now this is truly a great catch!

  276. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199821"][quote comment="199566"][quote comment="199561"][quote comment="199558"][quote comment="199551"][quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”[/quote]
    Absolutely this is a good catch. Ben’s been saying he’s the good one all along…made another statement about not killing innocents…hmmmm.[/quote]
    ————-
    this is a great catch…..from LOSTPEDIA[/quote]
    Well, it would be nice to credit where you find things…but it’s still a good find.[/quote]
    ————-
    Maybe I’m missing something on this…but for timeline sake….the Paik “D.O.C.” Flash was just after Sun & Jin were married (prostitute mommy pointed to the wedding pic in the paper)….why would he be buying a faux plane for the faux crash 4 years (according to Ji Yeon they were married in 2000) before the 815 flight?[/quote]
    ********************

    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.

  277. anOtherGay says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    Are you living in the 21st century? I think YOU are Lost. I would hate for Lost’s writers to be stuck with your narrow thinking – good riddance and don’t let the hatch door hit you on the way out! :P

  278. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199825"]We do not know that Miles knows Michael is not Kevin Johnson. After he said you’re not Kevin Johnson he went on to say 80% of the people on this boat aren’t who they say they are or have something to hide. I think by saying that he was making a broad comment towards Michael and not directly saying to him I know who you really are.[/quote]
    And yet, I was waiting for Michael to meet Miles to see if Miles would “know” anything.

  279. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199825"]We do not know that Miles knows Michael is not Kevin Johnson. After he said you’re not Kevin Johnson he went on to say 80% of the people on this boat aren’t who they say they are or have something to hide. I think by saying that he was making a broad comment towards Michael and not directly saying to him I know who you really are.[/quote]
    Yeah, I thought that scene was there partly for dramatic effect (“Oh no, is Miles gonna rat Michael out?!”), and partly to show that there wasn’t a thorough background checks of every person on the freighter, so Michael could get away with his new identity.

  280. Laura says:

    Indeed, it was an already very open-minded program offering yet another hint of diversity. From the beginning, the creators and writers have shown open-minded acceptance of all its characters.

    One of the things I love about LOST is the diversity in its cast of characters. It is the most diverse television program I have ever watched.

  281. Laura says:

    Oops, my previous comment should have been a quote from PJ.

    BTW, I find it quite ironic that Sayid turns Michael/Kevin in to the captain when he finds that he is working for Ben when we, of course, know that Sayid too ends up working for Ben.

  282. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="199828"][quote comment="199821"][quote comment="199566"][quote comment="199561"][quote comment="199558"][quote comment="199551"][quote comment="199528"]
    In “D.O.C.” Mr. Paik is having a conversation with his associates. Paik was arguing about forged shipping documents which they were supposed to provide for the Hanso Foundation (or possibly vice versa). Paik warns that they must provide the equipment soon. I was thinking someone hired Paik to manufacter the faux plane, but then Paik would know his daughter was alive and search for her… so now I am thinking Paik manufactured the freighter (unsure of it’s objective).
    Does anyone have thoughts on this?[/quote]
    This is a great catch! How the heck did you remember this?! I’ve been unsure about whether to believe Ben planted the fake plane or Widmore did it, but this seems to give evidence that Widmore did it. In which case I may have to believe Ben’s statement “We’re the good guys”[/quote]
    Absolutely this is a good catch. Ben’s been saying he’s the good one all along…made another statement about not killing innocents…hmmmm.[/quote]
    ————-
    this is a great catch…..from LOSTPEDIA[/quote]
    Well, it would be nice to credit where you find things…but it’s still a good find.[/quote]
    ————-
    Maybe I’m missing something on this…but for timeline sake….the Paik “D.O.C.” Flash was just after Sun & Jin were married (prostitute mommy pointed to the wedding pic in the paper)….why would he be buying a faux plane for the faux crash 4 years (according to Ji Yeon they were married in 2000) before the 815 flight?[/quote]
    ********************

    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    ——————-
    I know we can’t take everything literally, but for this one I am. It was a subtle way for the writers to put a time stamp on that flash, as well as verify (along with “only married 2 months”) the timeline.

  283. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199828"]
    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    The full quote from the shop keeper, per Lostpedia, was:
    “What about this… In the year of the dragon, it brings good luck”
    To me this implies it WAS the year of the dragon, otherwise he would have picked up a stuffed horse, or pig, or whatever animal whose year it was at that time.

  284. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199805"]I thought the episode was just…there. I don’t know what to call it. Toe, you asked why I thought it was close to SJM (which for me means it is the moment where we can visibly see the writing going downhill, and thus the show too…great post btw PJ and all that commented on nononsense, and I’m not gay, not that there’s anything wrong with it) so here goes.

    Post 1
    To clear up my point, and I will need to watch the episode again, though I don’t feel the show JTS, it is dangerously close to that line because some things don’t make sense to me right now. I’m not going to be bullheaded about it, and open to hear everyone’s thoughts, but I’m struggling with this episode. I have quite a few questions so much so that I will have to break down this post into several smaller ones in the hopes that someone can answer something.

    Michael: So we are to believe that he can not convince his son that they should be ecstatic to have gotten off that deserted island, and have been reunited from a kidnapping? His son would be so mad at him, for the nitty gritty details of their escape from that hell hole, that it would drive Mike to suicide?

    I didn’t get an answer as to why Mike couldn’t say, “Mom, (his own mother won’t let him see his son????) we crashed on that plane, we were on an island with some crazy folks, there are other survivors left behind, but I have no way of knowing how to get back there.” If folks are saying well he’d have to tell what he did to get off that island, it’s Mike’s word against a lying Ben, who would probably not be around to go to court anyway, let alone be a trusted witness. Who from the island would testify against Mike for coming back and rescuing them?

    Wouldn’t that be the redemption Mike needed in order to get back his son’s respect? I needed for there to be more of a reason for Mike’s silence about the island upon his return.[/quote]
    Let me try RGS: Remember that Walt is a ten year old kid. Kids tend to think in pretty black and white terms. As far as he is concerned, his dad didn’t save him from the Others when they came for him on the raft. He kept calling out to his dad to save him, and Michael didn’t (couldn’t), so he already had a chip on shoulder (to add to the one he already had there before). As someone else pointed out, Walt was closer to the other losties that Michael was, and Walt knew it and resented him for it. Then, he is with the Others for some amount of time (and put through…what?), then finds himself on a boat with his less than hero dad, only to discover that his dad killed Ana Lucia and Libby, then betrayed Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, and Kate to the Others (he saw that part himself). He isn’t mature enough to understand why he did this (not sure I am either come to think of it) or else doesn’t care why, he just despises his dad now more than anything. Thus, he now lives with grandma and won’t have anything to do with Michael. Now, his mother doesn’t know what he did, and neither he nor Walt is going to tell her. They are too distraught about it and Micheal is so guilt ridden he could never bring himself to tell her and bring down even more shame on his head. He isn’t interested in what the courts will think, or believe at this point, just what mom and Walt think, which he knows isn’t much. Mom is upset and disappointed in Michael. Michael now feels like a COMPLETE loser with nothing to live for. The ONLY people he cares about have rejected him. This is powerful. Yes, I believe this is enough to drive him to planning suicide (though, of course, it is always the wrong thing to do).

  285. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199807"]Post 2
    Ok, so let’s say Mike’s going crazy. Friendly slips him the rigged gun (I like that theory, though it is awfully coincidental that he has the same gun) he realizes he can’t kill himself (an awfully quick recovery from his car accident, with no air bags because this all takes place is less than 2 months) and agrees to helping his former kidnappers…because he feels the only way out of his situation is suicide? So then Mike is portrayed as a punk…fine.

    “I’ll help you guys so I can kill myself and protect my new best friends I made on the island.” So this means he blindly trusts, the people who kidnapped his son, and as far as he knows has done who knows what to Jack and co., that it is actually Widmore who is evil and must be stopped at all costs?[/quote]
    OK, now this one: First of all I don’t know that the gun was rigged, but doesn’t really matter to my point as long as Michael THINKS it is real. Now, in the depths of his despair, seeing no light at the end of the tunnel, Tom offers him a tiny glimpse of hope. He tells him that if he helps them, Michael can THEN be redeemed. Michael doesn’t want to bite, but then, he thinks WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE!!!!! Who are these people who can physically keep me from killing myself????? What kind of power is THAT!!!!! So, if they are THAT powerful, maybe the glimmer of hope is real. If I help them, I may get Walt’s respect back, I may not be such a loser afterall, and I may then be able to die in peace (or at all). He still doesn’t care a wit about the island losties, just about HIMSELF, Walt, and maybe momma.

  286. CindiRoe says:

    Long time reader, first time poster.
    I read through all the posts and I dont think this was asked. Did anyone else hear the nurse call Michael Mr. Dawson in the hospital room? She stated he had no ID, but then addressed him by his real name, or am I just as crazy as this show??!!!!!!

  287. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]
    ok….going to stick my neck on the line…

    I disagree with nononsensegal that it will make me stop watching the show. I also disagree about the “perversion” of the scene. Although it made me unconfortable, I do understand this is the 21st century and is considered part of normal society culture.

    I AGREED with her that it did absolutely nothing for the storyline and that the inuendo provided in the Kate shower scene would have been sufficient.

    That was my initial response….why was it necessary. But then I realized something. We’ve had gratutious Sawyer skin, Kate skin, Sun skin (season1), Juliet skin…..tattoed skin….it’s not new to the show. I just put up with it because it wasn’t “gratuitously gay”.

    Please..do not take this as bigotry as I really don’t care what people do in their own homes. It is meant more as a complaint towards the necessity for having it in the story, as well as how confusing Tom’s character now becomes. On the island he seems to be a wimpy third-string character….off island he’s the alpha male of a gay relationship….ordering both his lover and Michael around like he’s the guy in charge.

    In conclusion, my main complaint was originally that it was there in the first place, but now has become that I just don’t get Tom’s character anymore. The inconsistencies (to me) have been a deterrant to the almost perfect storytelling that has been the first 77 episodes.

    Hope I did a better job of explaining this than nononsensegal did. It’s meant more toward having Tom be “the gay character” and how it was done than the fact he is gay in the first place.

  288. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199808"]Post 3
    Gets on boat with his special delivery, has to wait til he’s at sea, sees that it is a bomb. Realizes ok, they want me to detonate the bomb to destroy this ship and stop them from getting there. Cool, I’ll do it. (Enter Libby and her plea to seemingly stop him, from preventing Widmore from finding the island…that is another matter). Up pops note, “Not yet,” or whatever.

    So now Ben talks to him on phone. “Mike, I don’t kill innocents, the peeps on the freightor are innocent but Widmore is not.” As far as Mike knows, this makes sense to him and he can “trust” Ben I suppose. We as viewers have to know Ben is lying through his teeth yet again. (again another side issue because I do realize that some of you believe Ben can actually be a “good” character). Yet he instructs Mike to sabotage the engines and cut off communications. So he wants the freightor folk to die from their free will, but not from him bombing them. So Ben’s intent is the same, he just wants to go about it a different way to ease his conscience????[/quote]
    Half way there! Now, Mike is still being set up for Ben’s mind games. No Ben IS NOT A GOOD GUY!!! He gets Michael out into the ocean with the freighter folks (some of whom are nice, seemingly good people) and Mike attempts to carry out his mission (again, only cares about HIMSELF). Then Ben lays it on him that HE didn’t tell Michael to kill Libby and Ana, Michael did that himself. (Semantics of course, Ben knew that Michael would have to do something drastic to free him). However, Mike hears this, feels the weight of his loserishness, sees the pit of despair rising up, and grabs hold of the faint, small, glimmer of hope offered by Mr. Friendly. He’s desperate to not be a loser. He NEEDS redemption any way he can get it. So, he’s in for the rest of Ben’s plan.

  289. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199837"][quote comment="199828"]
    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    The full quote from the shop keeper, per Lostpedia, was:
    “What about this… In the year of the dragon, it brings good luck”
    To me this implies it WAS the year of the dragon, otherwise he would have picked up a stuffed horse, or pig, or whatever animal whose year it was at that time.[/quote]

    For me the shopkeeper’s quote just smacked of desperation to sell him anything but the Panda. If it were actually the YOTD, it would be an even bigger selling point to say, “IT’S the YOTD, you gotta want this item.” Instead because he is an honest shopkeeper, he’s like, “IN the YOTD it will bring good luck.”

    I don’t know if it is that big a deal, but this was one of my pet peeves with regard to the shopkeeper’s comment, because folks took it as definitive that it was 2000. Besides, that would seem like too obvious a clue that it was a FB, imho.

  290. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199840"]Long time reader, first time poster.
    I read through all the posts and I dont think this was asked. Did anyone else hear the nurse call Michael Mr. Dawson in the hospital room? She stated he had no ID, but then addressed him by his real name, or am I just as crazy as this show??!!!!!![/quote]
    In that scene it was Libby who called him Mr. Dawson, then later the real nurse came in.

  291. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199809"]Post 4 (Thanks for any and all help???)
    I am not seeing where some of you have pointed out Mike’s redemption and thus the island then allowing whatever to take place with regard to him.
    Ben has killed innocents, and at a minimum attempted to kill innocents. You can debate the killing of his father. You can’t debate him trying to kill Locke, ordering Others to kill “anyone who gets in their way,” putting in motion the hanging of Charlie, putting in motion the killing of the freightor folk, putting in motion the killing of Goodwin and his ”rejoicing” over his death.

    I didn’t like how Locketown plainly accepted Ben’s word that if they turned him over he’d be killed. They didn’t show why Ben revealing Mike was his man, was enough of a revelation to Locke that he had to set him free? I mean if you want him at the dinner table, why not keep him tied up? I’m just not quite following that Ben has done enough to have gained that much trust.

    Assuming Widmore put the plane at the bottom of the ocean to prevent folks from looking for it a la Amelia Earhart’s plane. He keeps the freightor folk in the dark. “Just get Ben.” The Captain better not turn out to be one of Ben’s men, which could explain his lack of reaction when Sayid bring him in. Why wouldn’t Sayid do that, he doesn’t trust Ben. Why would Mike be helping Sayid and Desmond out (unlocking door) knowing that it could expose his true identity, especially since Mike is working for Ben who has shown to be the Losties enemy?[/quote]
    OK RGS!! Last one: As I said, BEN IS NOT A GOOD GUY!!! Would you think he was “good” if he lived next door to you???!!! Now, back in Otherton/Lockville, remember that Sawyer called everyone there “sheep”. They are playing that part well right now. They are uneasy, but are scared and are buying it that Locke has a plan. At least for the moment they are. I don’t think any of them actually TRUSTS Ben, (or Locke for that matter) but don’t know what else to do. They do know, though, that Ben sprinkles just enough truth into his lies to be believable (the mark of a truly great liar). As for Locke, we don’t really know that the Michael reveal was EVERYTHING Ben told him, but even if it was, I see Locke as growing more and more desperate as time goes on. He WANTS to be a great leader but cant’ quite put it all together. He looked a bit disturbed throughout the whole exchange, like some of what he was hearing was actually new info to him, but is weak and doesn’t know what to do (and doesn’t want his “followers” to see that he doesn’t). It’s funny that even in handcuffs, prison, whatever they do to him, BEN IS STILL IN CHARGE. I think they are believing him about the “after they have me (Ben), they will kill everyone else on the island” bit because they are already scared and feel threatened, and this threat is personal.
    Not sure what to say yet about the captain. He certainly seems to know more than HE is saying as well.

    Ha!!! Hope that helps. Good discussion anyway. Very thoughtful questions. Hang in there, I don’t think we are jumping that shark yet!

  292. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199843"][quote comment="199837"][quote comment="199828"]
    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    The full quote from the shop keeper, per Lostpedia, was:
    “What about this… In the year of the dragon, it brings good luck”
    To me this implies it WAS the year of the dragon, otherwise he would have picked up a stuffed horse, or pig, or whatever animal whose year it was at that time.[/quote]

    For me the shopkeeper’s quote just smacked of desperation to sell him anything but the Panda. If it were actually the YOTD, it would be an even bigger selling point to say, “IT’S the YOTD, you gotta want this item.” Instead because he is an honest shopkeeper, he’s like, “IN the YOTD it will bring good luck.”

    I don’t know if it is that big a deal, but this was one of my pet peeves with regard to the shopkeeper’s comment, because folks took it as definitive that it was 2000. Besides, that would seem like too obvious a clue that it was a FB, imho.[/quote]
    I agree with RGS.

  293. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199841"]
    ……
    Please..do not take this as bigotry as I really don’t care what people do in their own homes. It is meant more as a complaint towards the necessity for having it in the story, as well as how confusing Tom’s character now becomes. On the island he seems to be a wimpy third-string character….off island he’s the alpha male of a gay relationship….ordering both his lover and Michael around like he’s the guy in charge.
    …..
    [/quote]
    I disagree somewhat with this. The first few times we saw him on the island he came across as a scary dude – when he captured Walt, when he encountered Locke, Jack and Sawyer in the jungle in The Hunting Party, when he was part of the group that captured Michael as he was on is way to rescue Walt. He was portrayed as Ethan’s superior in Claire’s FB that showed what happened when she was kidnapped. In the season 3 finale he wanted to disobey Ben’s order and actually kill Sayid, Jin, and Bernard. Sure, at times in season 3 he was portrayed as a more mild-mannered guy, and subservient to Ben, but other than that he’s been pretty assertive if not aggressive.

  294. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199838"][quote comment="199805"]Let me try RGS: Remember that Walt is a ten year old kid. Kids tend to think in pretty black and white terms. As far as he is concerned, his dad didn’t save him from the Others when they came for him on the raft. He kept calling out to his dad to save him, and Michael didn’t (couldn’t), so he already had a chip on shoulder (to add to the one he already had there before). As someone else pointed out, Walt was closer to the other losties that Michael was, and Walt knew it and resented him for it. Then, he is with the Others for some amount of time (and put through…what?), then finds himself on a boat with his less than hero dad, only to discover that his dad killed Ana Lucia and Libby, then betrayed Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, and Kate to the Others (he saw that part himself). He isn’t mature enough to understand why he did this He isn’t interested in what the courts will think, or believe at this point, just what mom and Walt think, which he knows isn’t much. Mom is upset and disappointed in Michael. Michael now feels like a COMPLETE loser with nothing to live for. The ONLY people he cares about have rejected him. This is powerful. Yes, I believe this is enough to drive him to planning suicide (though, of course, it is always the wrong thing to do).[/quote]

    Toeknee and Rita. Thanks for your responses. Toe, yes I realize it is TV and a certain amount of logic has to be suspended (I do accept smokey, time traveling conscious, possible teleportation, etc.) but I have problems with inconsistencies with regard to the spectacular stuff. Which brings me to Rita’s points.

    In the beginning we are led to believe that Mike is a relatively strong father character. Knowing what’s best for Walt, making grown up decisions. It is a little inconsistent for him to now cower to the disgust his 10 year old son feels for him, to the point of suicide, with full knowledge that his son is only 10 and this is what 10 year olds do. Perhaps after viewing again I will be feeling your theory a little more. It is definitely workable.

  295. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199843"][quote comment="199837"][quote comment="199828"]
    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    The full quote from the shop keeper, per Lostpedia, was:
    “What about this… In the year of the dragon, it brings good luck”
    To me this implies it WAS the year of the dragon, otherwise he would have picked up a stuffed horse, or pig, or whatever animal whose year it was at that time.[/quote]

    For me the shopkeeper’s quote just smacked of desperation to sell him anything but the Panda. If it were actually the YOTD, it would be an even bigger selling point to say, “IT’S the YOTD, you gotta want this item.” Instead because he is an honest shopkeeper, he’s like, “IN the YOTD it will bring good luck.”

    I don’t know if it is that big a deal, but this was one of my pet peeves with regard to the shopkeeper’s comment, because folks took it as definitive that it was 2000. Besides, that would seem like too obvious a clue that it was a FB, imho.[/quote]
    __________________________
    Not to belabor the point, but there were tons of stuffed animals, he could have easily picked up a horse, if it were the year of the horse, or a pig if it were the year of the pig, etc.

    Too obvious about it being a flashback – I’d think most people watching the show wouldn’t have thought, “Oh, Year of the Dragon – this is the year 2000!” Sure, after the episode we all went on the internet to find out which years were Years of the Dragon, but by that point, we all knew it was a FB.

  296. Rita says:

    OK, I wasn’t going to comment on this point, but here is my two cents: After the “innuendo” about Tom’s orientation, Tom himself (the actor) commented in a LOST magazine that he was wondering after his line “Kate you’re not my type” whether or not he may then be gay. He said he started playing it that way. There has therefore been speculation ever since about his affections and I think the writers thought they were just putting to rest one more burning issue.

  297. Missy says:

    [quote comment="199633"][quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    Lost is an intelligent and very reasonable show. If you can’t take a kiss on the cheek, what show can you still watch on American Tv?
    You have to face the fact that gay people exist as we all do. Like them or not, we have to accept their existence in society as well as on tv. A kiss on the cheek, really…
    Too bad if you stop watching that great show for this…[/quote]

    So Ben’s gassing all the Dharma people is okay – But Tom’s kissing someone is not. I don’t even think we should take that comment above seriously…

  298. Lynne says:

    Okay, yes. Let the gay thing go. But it did seem sort of thrown in there. Is there a reason the writers put that in? Other than to show he has a life outside the island? Could Tom have a relationship on the island that effects some outcome? Although this might not be possible since Tom did die on the beach. He did die on the beach right?

  299. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199808"]Post 3
    Gets on boat with his special delivery, has to wait til he’s at sea, sees that it is a bomb. Realizes ok, they want me to detonate the bomb to destroy this ship and stop them from getting there. Cool, I’ll do it. (Enter Libby and her plea to seemingly stop him, from preventing Widmore from finding the island…that is another matter). Up pops note, “Not yet,” or whatever.

    So now Ben talks to him on phone. “Mike, I don’t kill innocents, the peeps on the freightor are innocent but Widmore is not.” As far as Mike knows, this makes sense to him and he can “trust” Ben I suppose. We as viewers have to know Ben is lying through his teeth yet again. (again another side issue because I do realize that some of you believe Ben can actually be a “good” character). Yet he instructs Mike to sabotage the engines and cut off communications. So he wants the freightor folk to die from their free will, but not from him bombing them. So Ben’s intent is the same, he just wants to go about it a different way to ease his conscience????[/quote]

    RGS, Ben has to have it look like the freightor folks went crazy, because if he bombs them, it will make them martyrs to Widmore’s cause, and may cause him to fire up even more troops to find this island. If he makes it look like they killed themselves off, he will invoke a sense of “that place is cursed, let me leave this quest alone.”

    (Slowly getting back into the fold…but this will be a bit of a process for me).

  300. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="199852"][quote comment="199633"]
    So Ben’s gassing all the Dharma people is okay – But Tom’s kissing someone is not. I don’t even think we should take that comment above seriously…[/quote]

    ————
    Actually, I was thinking the same thing during Ji Yeon. Everybody hated on Juliet for narcing on Sun, but nobody seemed mad at Sun. Which is worse, cheating on your husband or narcing on somebody who cheated on their husband?

  301. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199850"][quote comment="199843"][quote comment="199837"][quote comment="199828"]
    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    The full quote from the shop keeper, per Lostpedia, was:
    “What about this… In the year of the dragon, it brings good luck”
    To me this implies it WAS the year of the dragon, otherwise he would have picked up a stuffed horse, or pig, or whatever animal whose year it was at that time.[/quote]

    For me the shopkeeper’s quote just smacked of desperation to sell him anything but the Panda. If it were actually the YOTD, it would be an even bigger selling point to say, “IT’S the YOTD, you gotta want this item.” Instead because he is an honest shopkeeper, he’s like, “IN the YOTD it will bring good luck.”

    I don’t know if it is that big a deal, but this was one of my pet peeves with regard to the shopkeeper’s comment, because folks took it as definitive that it was 2000. Besides, that would seem like too obvious a clue that it was a FB, imho.[/quote]
    __________________________
    Not to belabor the point, but there were tons of stuffed animals, he could have easily picked up a horse, if it were the year of the horse, or a pig if it were the year of the pig, etc.

    Too obvious about it being a flashback – I’d think most people watching the show wouldn’t have thought, “Oh, Year of the Dragon – this is the year 2000!” Sure, after the episode we all went on the internet to find out which years were Years of the Dragon, but by that point, we all knew it was a FB.[/quote]

    I took it as him grabbing the first thing he could get his hands on, bcuz Jin was so determined. “Oh here’s a dragon, …Heyyyy,in the YOTD this is good luck.”

    Yes the majority of the audience needed to look up the YOTD but there is still a significant amount of people who would know when the last YOTD was, and could put that together before hand. Plus folks could have looked that up as soon as it was said, in this day and age.

  302. vavila says:

    [quote comment="199599"]The Temple. Ben told Alex that it wasn’t for “them” just for “us”. I am thinking that it is a “do all” type of station. Maybe has communications equip., but more importantly being a hidden sanctuary. Maybe it is “hatch like” in that it would protect against another purge as well. Alpert led them there, so we can assume (since Karl mentioned it) that only a select few know about it.[/quote]

    I think that Danielle and Karl were killed because they are somehow not good enough to come to the Temple (and may even compromise Temple’s powers etc by coming there). But it is also possible that the newcommers are trying to kidnap Alex (but don’t think so).

    RGS: did the 10.25 rating change in any way yet?

    if walt is so special and was clearly special enough for others to capture him (and seemingly expereiment with him what now gives him nightmares), but if he has the special powers (which we saw even before coming to the island), then why did they let him go? To get Michael to be the spy and perhaps because they know that Walt will be back and will be on their side at some point as well? I don’t think they really just let him go either… maybe that is why Ben didn’t provide Walt or Michel with a non-815 identity and a story to tell others so he can blend in into civilization.

    I also though that it was almost ironic that Michael did so much to get ‘his boy’ on the island and now in NY, it is his own mother who doesn’t let him talk to Walt and explain things to him and Michael cannot go around that? I guess he’s waiting for Walt to show initiative when he’s ready as walt saw in the window that Michael is trying to see him..

    i also wonder if Machael already knows why Walt was taken and what was done to him (otherwise i would be asking a lot more questions than he did of Ben’s man)

    p.s. i don’t trust the captain

  303. Wiserwiz says:

    [quote comment="199579"][quote comment="199524"]also, i’m no good w/ the timeline stuff, but did tom have enough time to go to visit michael and then be killed by sawyer on the beach?

    and how did he get off island? the sub was blown up by then, right? b/c there is an xmas tree, so close to now

    and what did tom mean, “some of us can come and go” (paraphrasing)?[/quote]

    Last year Laura* stated that she thought the sub was a scam…I believe it now. Juliette was drugged to come to the island and then woke up on the sub…how do we know that’s really how she got there. Notice Ben was not too upset about the sub being blown up. I think he portrayed to his people that the sub was the only way off so that they wouldn’t think they could just go back and forth (“I’m going home for xmas..”). So the question is, how else do they get off the island (an airport on the north shore)?
    And if the island won’t let Michael die…how about Alex and Carl…are they still alive (like Locke who was shot head on by Ben)? Or do you only not get to die if you leave the island…sort of a reverse of the curing properties….
    And oops, Sayid…not sure you should have ratted Michael out, especially with the captain having machine guns to waste on clay pigeons…[/quote]

    It fits with my theory that Ben and select others can travel at will from the island to the mainland. It sounds far fethced but what if .. somewhere in Ben’s secret room (with the passports) there is a “doorway” that takes you directly to the mainland. It would explain how they easily bring people (e.g. Sawyer’s dad) to the isalnd and how they keep appearing on and off the island, seemingly, at will. It would have to be in Ben’s house because he would want to control access.

  304. Lar says:

    Relatively new to this blog (which rules by the way) and first time commentor so I apologize if this is the wrong forum to ask this, but what is Hammer’s whisper theory that everyone seems to agree with?

  305. guttah says:

    Im not so sure that the people that killed Danielle and Carl are the others, not sure their from the freighter either. The fact that they used silencers and camoflauge leads me to believe they are either military or mercs not associated with the freighter. Im leaning more towards hired mercs since they missed the first shot (it hit the water bottle). Plus with the previews for the next eps, i dont think Ben would consider fighting the 2 or 3 frieghter shooters “war”. As far as Michael and Walt…I can understand both sides, Walt not wanting anything to do with his father because he is a murderer, at that point he is too young to understand what a parent would do for their kids. And Michael wanting to kill himself because he felt as though he let his son, and his island friends down and now neither one wanting anything to do with him. He seeks redemption and Ben offered that opportunity for him…I would take it too if I were in Michaels shoes. As far as Ben goes…have we really ever seen him kill anyone?? He shot Locke, but didnt kill him…He killed his father, but accorinding to Ben the whole Dharma Initiative was trying to exploit the island therefore not innocent, and no one knows how Henry Gail died…So in Bens mind he doenst kill innocent people…thats like telling a lie so often you start to believe it!! and now to the last part of my post…NoNonsenceGal….Boo Hoo, cry me a river, yada yada….if that was the worst thing u have seen on TV then u live a very sheltered life…its ignorance like that, that keeps humanity running in circles…I feel sorry for your kids…thats not an insult, but if they are being raised with the same thought process as you then they will have a rude awakening when they become adults and enter the real world…Life aint all peaches and cream….take care yall

  306. Lins says:

    So if Tom switched the guns…wouldn’t Michael notice? Or was he too disoriented and set on killing himself to care?

  307. shadman says:

    Newbie here for posting but love reading…so much good info going around. How did Michael get Jins watch?

  308. Laura says:

    Since no one has commented on this I must be totally wrong, but, wasn’t the “temple” where Charlotte and Daniel went to disable the gas emitting computer program?

  309. Wiserwiz says:

    [quote comment="199870"]Since no one has commented on this I must be totally wrong, but, wasn’t the “temple” where Charlotte and Daniel went to disable the gas emitting computer program?[/quote]

    No it was the “Tempest”

  310. Taylor says:

    Laura, that was “the tempest”.

    my question is when did tom have the time to go back to the mainland? it must have been in between the time he was with the others during stranger in a strange land and playing football with jack in par avion. still doesn’t seem like much time…

  311. Lins says:

    [quote comment="199870"]Since no one has commented on this I must be totally wrong, but, wasn’t the “temple” where Charlotte and Daniel went to disable the gas emitting computer program?[/quote]

    No, that was the Tempest…close!

  312. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199863"]Relatively new to this blog (which rules by the way) and first time commentor so I apologize if this is the wrong forum to ask this, but what is Hammer’s whisper theory that everyone seems to agree with?[/quote]
    LOL!! It’s a great theory, but we will have to let Hammer explain it to do it justice. Hammer?

  313. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199869"]Newbie here for posting but love reading…so much good info going around. How did Michael get Jins watch?[/quote]
    That happened in season 1 – first Michael found it on the beach, later Jin attacks Michael thinking he stole it, after they calm down Michael returns it to Jin, then I think when they were on the raft at the end of season 1, Jin gives the watch to Michael.

  314. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199869"]Newbie here for posting but love reading…so much good info going around. How did Michael get Jins watch?[/quote]
    In season 1. He found it on the beach in the wreckage and caused a fight with Jin over it. It wasn’t Jin’s personal watch, but one he was to deliver for Sun’s father to someone in America. Jin jumped Michael when he saw it and ended up in hand cuffs because no one had a clue as to why Jin was upset with Michael. Jin didn’t speak English and Sun hadn’t admitted to speaking it yet.

  315. vavila says:

    [quote comment="199839"][quote comment="199807"]Post 2
    Ok, so let’s say Mike’s going crazy. Friendly slips him the rigged gun (I like that theory, though it is awfully coincidental that he has the same gun) he realizes he can’t kill himself (an awfully quick recovery from his car accident, with no air bags because this all takes place is less than 2 months) and agrees to helping his former kidnappers…because he feels the only way out of his situation is suicide? So then Mike is portrayed as a punk…fine.

    “I’ll help you guys so I can kill myself and protect my new best friends I made on the island.” So this means he blindly trusts, the people who kidnapped his son, and as far as he knows has done who knows what to Jack and co., that it is actually Widmore who is evil and must be stopped at all costs?[/quote]
    OK, now this one: First of all I don’t know that the gun was rigged, but doesn’t really matter to my point as long as Michael THINKS it is real. Now, in the depths of his despair, seeing no light at the end of the tunnel, Tom offers him a tiny glimpse of hope. He tells him that if he helps them, Michael can THEN be redeemed. Michael doesn’t want to bite, but then, he thinks WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE!!!!! Who are these people who can physically keep me from killing myself????? What kind of power is THAT!!!!! So, if they are THAT powerful, maybe the glimmer of hope is real. If I help them, I may get Walt’s respect back, I may not be such a loser afterall, and I may then be able to die in peace (or at all). He still doesn’t care a wit about the island losties, just about HIMSELF, Walt, and maybe momma.[/quote]

    RGS: Michael tried killing himself with a car crash-didn’t work (nurse said it is amazing that he survived), he tried to shoot himself – didn’t work. Maybe he should have tried firing that gun at an object to make sure that gun doesn’t work only on him, but i think that the point of island’s influence on michael’s ability to die was made clear.

    Now, Michael has been put in very difficult circumstances where he could not have come out as a ‘winner’ regardless of which path he took. He got his son (tho the measures were extreme and the unintended consequences were tragic) but he ‘lost’ him and he lost himslef because of the way Walt was saved. There was no going back to ‘normal’ life with Walt in NY: Walt cannot deal with what happened and Michael is hunted by the lost of Walt and inability to deal with the killings, so that drives him to suicide.

    he cannot commit a suicide (not because of the powerful people Rita, but because of the island’s power over him in my mind) so he has no options to exit his misery. Michael looked at the evidence that Widmore was very powerful and wanted the island all to himself (saw the plane rackage on TV, saw the pictures of graves, purchase order etc., and it makes sense that someone who wants to find the ‘majic’ island and prevent others from finding it would do such a thing). Michael was not 100% convinced that Widmore would kill the losties, but this assumption made some sense if Widmore wants the island to himself, plus Michael has nothing to loose and redemption to gain by going on this mission. Michael become smore convinced that the boat people are not there to save the survivors when he sees all the ammunition they got and watches them firing shots…

    and I don’t agree with Rita that Michael is this selfish guy who does everything only for his own good. First of all he puts Walt above himself, second of all it is the loss of his relationship with Walt (which he has been denied for almost all of walt’s life) and inability to forgive himself for killing people and turning his friends in in order to get Walt he had not much to live for because him living for himself was not enough…

  316. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199803"][quote comment="199798"]
    Also, why didn’t Rouseau object when Ben called Alex “his” daughter? If he really kidnapped her as an infant and raised her himself, wouldn’t Rouseau be a bit more upset about it? Why would she consent to living there with Ben and allowing him to call Alex “his”? Maybe…..she IS his?[/quote]
    In past episodes, Rousseau has been more “firm” in her dealings with Ben – she hit him one or two of the times that he tried to talk to Alex back in the season 3 finale. At this point, Locke apparently has decided that Ben can be treated as more of an ally than a prisoner, so maybe Rousseau didn’t want to hit him again because it would piss off Locke? She did give him a dirty look, if that counts for anything.[/quote]
    ————
    I thought this odd too Rita. Read comment #178.

  317. shadman says:

    [quote comment="199876"][quote comment="199869"]Newbie here for posting but love reading…so much good info going around. How did Michael get Jins watch?[/quote]
    In season 1. He found it on the beach in the wreckage and caused a fight with Jin over it. It wasn’t Jin’s personal watch, but one he was to deliver for Sun’s father to someone in America. Jin jumped Michael when he saw it and ended up in hand cuffs because no one had a clue as to why Jin was upset with Michael. Jin didn’t speak English and Sun hadn’t admitted to speaking it yet.[/quote]

    Thanks Rita and Toeknee, it is all coming back to me. Kind of like Duh on that was the watch Jin was delivering ..total blank out on my part

  318. LOVED this episode.
    great posts so far; i’ve been reading them all morning!

    1. i’m not saying ben ISN’T behind karl/rousseau’s shootings, but i find it odd that [if he is] he’s just now killing them when he’s had a billion opportunities. he could’ve just killed karl in the cage in front of sawyer to keep sawyer in line. but he didn’t.

    2. maybe charlotte is the shooter? she sure does seem ruthless. i love how she knocks kate out and then sayd “whuu.”["what?"]

    3. if the shooters are following ben’s orders, then i’m guessing he has his house tapped and the folks at the temple can hear? i don’t know…there’s pros and cons to that.

    4. walt WAS shorter in the window, so i think that he [not smokey] PROJECTED himself to locke…maybe he wanted to be taller because in the mind of a 10 yr old, maybe that’s more authoritative.

    5. i think the whole reason michael DIDN’T tell his mom what happened/about the island is because the fact that he’s a murderer. even if he told her he murdered, he has to change his identity or the media might eventually find out he’s connected to the murders?

    6. regardless, he feels like he has nothing to lose by going to the boat. he’s already lost his son, the one person he cares most about.

    i think that ben is the lesser of two evils. i’ve always had a negative hunch about widmore, and i think that ben just wants to protect the island from people who wish to exploit it.

    frank lapidus is becoming more and more intriguing to me.

  319. WTF says:

    RGS
    Comment 294, posted 21 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Rita wrote:

    RGS wrote:

    Let me try RGS: Remember that Walt is a ten year old kid. Kids tend to think in pretty black and white terms. As far as he is concerned, his dad didn’t save him from the Others when they came for him on the raft. He kept calling out to his dad to save him, and Michael didn’t (couldn’t), so he already had a chip on shoulder (to add to the one he already had there before). As someone else pointed out, Walt was closer to the other losties that Michael was, and Walt knew it and resented him for it. Then, he is with the Others for some amount of time (and put through…what?), then finds himself on a boat with his less than hero dad, only to discover that his dad killed Ana Lucia and Libby, then betrayed Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, and Kate to the Others (he saw that part himself). He isn’t mature enough to understand why he did this He isn’t interested in what the courts will think, or believe at this point, just what mom and Walt think, which he knows isn’t much. Mom is upset and disappointed in Michael. Michael now feels like a COMPLETE loser with nothing to live for. The ONLY people he cares about have rejected him. This is powerful. Yes, I believe this is enough to drive him to planning suicide (though, of course, it is always the wrong thing to do).

    Toeknee and Rita. Thanks for your responses. Toe, yes I realize it is TV and a certain amount of logic has to be suspended (I do accept smokey, time traveling conscious, possible teleportation, etc.) but I have problems with inconsistencies with regard to the spectacular stuff. Which brings me to Rita’s points.

    In the beginning we are led to believe that Mike is a relatively strong father character. Knowing what’s best for Walt, making grown up decisions. It is a little inconsistent for him to now cower to the disgust his 10 year old son feels for him, to the point of suicide, with full knowledge that his son is only 10 and this is what 10 year olds do. Perhaps after viewing again I will be feeling your theory a little more. It is definitely workable.

    I think Michael is strung out becaues of his current relationship with Walt, but I also think that part of what has him messed up is the guilt of killing Anna Lucia and Libby. I think this is made clear by Libby’s appearances on this episode. He seems to be haunted by her. He commited murder as an act of desperation to get to his son. It was not a planned intentional act of an evil man. He has been troubled for quite some time (not able to take care of Walt, his ex-wife has him)as we saw in Season 1. He had reached his breaking point.

    I would also like to comment that I am happy to see the reaction to nononsensegal’s post. You are a good group of people.

  320. lost4ever says:

    By far the best show of the year for the simple reason…no Jack or Juliet. Plus it had Libby and Noami. AND how about are little other Alex, she is growing up fast.

  321. deangoodes says:

    Here is a question that just came to me that might explain how others come and go so easily:

    Do we really know how far the island is from “the mainland”? Maybe it’s just a trip that any boat could make??

  322. skweez says:

    [quote comment="199779"]I loved this episode! Great posts tonight too. I am very intrigued by the List request from Ben to Michael. Here we go again… Is Jacob pulling the strings again? Also I thought it was interesting that when Ben showed Alex, Danielle, and Karl/Carl the map, he said it was for us, I was understanding for the “others” and not the losties. Well, Danielle at least from the background we have is not an other, and when we first met Karl, he was in a cage across from Kate and Sawyer right? Maybe the gunshots were from the “others” and were protecting the “sacred” temple to the fullest that’s why Alex was sparred because she was Ben’s “daughter”, the other’s don’t give a c–p about Danielle. I just think it is too “magical” of a coinscidence that the Freightor assansains could have been so spot on. And Ben usually is one step ahead. I really do think Ben is a “good” guy in a crazy sort of way! The Dharma purge was justified by the island, perhaps, they were not “innocent” their intentions of using the island for their own wicked purposes… yada yada yada. Anywho. Great show.

    *Also, hey Hammer, your whisper theory rocks still! Awesome…[/quote]

    Read post 136

  323. deangoodes says:

    And then once they’re at the mainland they could fly to wherever whenever they want.

    And Alex sure was made to look hotter than ever. I don’t know if there was a reason for that or just coincidental or maybe just something I hadn’t noticed because her parts had been limited. Anyone else notice this?

    Also, as far as Ben not killing Carl and Rousseau before now, Alex would know it was Ben before, but now he could blame someone else.

  324. skweez says:

    [quote comment="199800"]I definitely think Ben had Rousseau and Carl killed. That was a sharpshooter taking them out. I think the scene on the freighter was put there on purpose to show they were NOT good shots. They had a machine gun with dozens of bullets flying and still only hit the one clay pigeon. Plus, they had no need to kill Rousseau and Carl, they could have taken all three. Only Ben would have something to gain (Alex) by killing those two.

    And Walt in his room looked like a short Walt again, although that could have just been how it looked with a high windowsill.

    The car Michael drove into the barrier was a Plymouth Volare (A Dodge Aspen is possible, they are exactly the same except for the logos, which I think were Plymouth), about a ’76. I had one for a few years in the 80’s.

    Why did Ben not have any scars or injuries or bruises when he was in his jammies??? Hasn’t he been getting beat up pretty regularly for some time now??[/quote]

    Read post 136

  325. skweez says:

    [quote comment="199805"]I thought the episode was just…there. I don’t know what to call it. Toe, you asked why I thought it was close to SJM (which for me means it is the moment where we can visibly see the writing going downhill, and thus the show too…great post btw PJ and all that commented on nononsense, and I’m not gay, not that there’s anything wrong with it) so here goes.

    Post 1
    To clear up my point, and I will need to watch the episode again, though I don’t feel the show JTS, it is dangerously close to that line because some things don’t make sense to me right now. I’m not going to be bullheaded about it, and open to hear everyone’s thoughts, but I’m struggling with this episode. I have quite a few questions so much so that I will have to break down this post into several smaller ones in the hopes that someone can answer something.

    Michael: So we are to believe that he can not convince his son that they should be ecstatic to have gotten off that deserted island, and have been reunited from a kidnapping? His son would be so mad at him, for the nitty gritty details of their escape from that hell hole, that it would drive Mike to suicide?

    I didn’t get an answer as to why Mike couldn’t say, “Mom, (his own mother won’t let him see his son????) we crashed on that plane, we were on an island with some crazy folks, there are other survivors left behind, but I have no way of knowing how to get back there.” If folks are saying well he’d have to tell what he did to get off that island, it’s Mike’s word against a lying Ben, who would probably not be around to go to court anyway, let alone be a trusted witness. Who from the island would testify against Mike for coming back and rescuing them?

    Wouldn’t that be the redemption Mike needed in order to get back his son’s respect? I needed for there to be more of a reason for Mike’s silence about the island upon his return.[/quote]

    That is exactly how i felt. I thought this was a weak reason for Michael to go back. I had hoped the writers could come up with something better, but i guess they wanted to keep it simple. It’s just hard for me to understand why a person who had been through so much would go and work for the people that put them through it in the first place. Especially, seeing how Walt would have no idea about the redemtion angle because Michael would’ve died on the boat if the bomb was real. Also, if Walt is not speaking to Michael due to him being a murderer and Michael is attempting suicide, wouldn’t he just tell his mother what happenned before he took himself out. Maybe he figured that would be putting her life in danger. Just not strong writing IMHO.

  326. skweez says:

    [quote comment="199807"]Post 2
    Ok, so let’s say Mike’s going crazy. Friendly slips him the rigged gun (I like that theory, though it is awfully coincidental that he has the same gun) he realizes he can’t kill himself (an awfully quick recovery from his car accident, with no air bags because this all takes place is less than 2 months) and agrees to helping his former kidnappers…because he feels the only way out of his situation is suicide? So then Mike is portrayed as a punk…fine.

    “I’ll help you guys so I can kill myself and protect my new best friends I made on the island.” So this means he blindly trusts, the people who kidnapped his son, and as far as he knows has done who knows what to Jack and co., that it is actually Widmore who is evil and must be stopped at all costs?[/quote]

    A HA! The proof. After all of what the Others had done, I thought it odd that Michael would believe take the Widmore “paperwork” as proof.

  327. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199888"]And then once they’re at the mainland they could fly to wherever whenever they want.

    And Alex sure was made to look hotter than ever. I don’t know if there was a reason for that or just coincidental or maybe just something I hadn’t noticed because her parts had been limited. Anyone else notice this?

    Also, as far as Ben not killing Carl and Rousseau before now, Alex would know it was Ben before, but now he could blame someone else.[/quote]
    ————
    but didnt it seem like the shooters were coming toward Alex at the end? If the shooters reveal themselves she would know her so-called father, put in that order. That was definitely sniper fire.

  328. TSOL says:

    Not gonna start reading all these posts, epecially as i still have 2 days before i can watch it here in england. Just wandered if everyone else has got onto the fact the it must be michael in the coffin? JO(HNSON) Teenage son. NY. All adds up.

  329. deangoodes says:

    Good call Skweez, I didn’t put any time into thinking who he might have do it. Those are likely options, or there could be some Others we haven’t even seen yet.

  330. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199809"]Post 4 (Thanks for any and all help???)
    I am not seeing where some of you have pointed out Mike’s redemption and thus the island then allowing whatever to take place with regard to him.
    Ben has killed innocents, and at a minimum attempted to kill innocents. You can debate the killing of his father. You can’t debate him trying to kill Locke, ordering Others to kill “anyone who gets in their way,” putting in motion the hanging of Charlie, putting in motion the killing of the freightor folk, putting in motion the killing of Goodwin and his ”rejoicing” over his death.

    I didn’t like how Locketown plainly accepted Ben’s word that if they turned him over he’d be killed. They didn’t show why Ben revealing Mike was his man, was enough of a revelation to Locke that he had to set him free? I mean if you want him at the dinner table, why not keep him tied up? I’m just not quite following that Ben has done enough to have gained that much trust.

    Assuming Widmore put the plane at the bottom of the ocean to prevent folks from looking for it a la Amelia Earhart’s plane. He keeps the freightor folk in the dark. “Just get Ben.” The Captain better not turn out to be one of Ben’s men, which could explain his lack of reaction when Sayid bring him in. Why wouldn’t Sayid do that, he doesn’t trust Ben. Why would Mike be helping Sayid and Desmond out (unlocking door) knowing that it could expose his true identity, especially since Mike is working for Ben who has shown to be the Losties enemy?[/quote]
    The redemption would be judged by the island, just as Eko was. If the island determines that Michael’s actions in helping to protect it are worthy, than he will be redeemed for killing.

  331. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199893"]Not gonna start reading all these posts, epecially as i still have 2 days before i can watch it here in england. Just wandered if everyone else has got onto the fact the it must be michael in the coffin? JO(HNSON) Teenage son. NY. All adds up.[/quote]
    ——
    someone answered that question last night. Scroll up to find it.

  332. deangoodes says:

    [quote comment="199892"][quote comment="199888"]And then once they’re at the mainland they could fly to wherever whenever they want.

    And Alex sure was made to look hotter than ever. I don’t know if there was a reason for that or just coincidental or maybe just something I hadn’t noticed because her parts had been limited. Anyone else notice this?

    Also, as far as Ben not killing Carl and Rousseau before now, Alex would know it was Ben before, but now he could blame someone else.[/quote]
    ————
    but didnt it seem like the shooters were coming toward Alex at the end? If the shooters reveal themselves she would know her so-called father, put in that order. That was definitely sniper fire.[/quote]

    —————————————
    It did seem like they were going to show themselves so that would ruin it. Good point.

  333. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199827"][————-
    Maybe I’m missing something on this…but for timeline sake….the Paik “D.O.C.” Flash was just after Sun & Jin were married (prostitute mommy pointed to the wedding pic in the paper)….why would he be buying a faux plane for the faux crash 4 years (according to Ji Yeon they were married in 2000) before the 815 flight?[/quote]For the same reason Widmore would be buying the Black Rock journal in 1996…time travel?
    ___________________________________________
    Now this is truly a great catch![/quote]

  334. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="199481"]OK, so who put the fake plane in the trench? Ben’s people (Ben, Tom) say it was Widmore, and Widmore’s people (the captain) say it was Ben. Hmmmmmmm. Any clues I missed as to the real culprit?[/quote]

    The captain never said it was Ben. He talked about the staged plane, about having been send to get Ben, and asked something like “do you know how much power someone has to have in order to pull this off?” It was not made clear if he was talking about Widmore or Ben.

  335. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199882"]LOVED this episode.
    great posts so far; i’ve been reading them all morning!

    1. i’m not saying ben ISN’T behind karl/rousseau’s shootings, but i find it odd that [if he is] he’s just now killing them when he’s had a billion opportunities. he could’ve just killed karl in the cage in front of sawyer to keep sawyer in line. but he didn’t.

    i think that ben is the lesser of two evils. i’ve always had a negative hunch about widmore, and i think that ben just wants to protect the island from people who wish to exploit it.

    [/quote]
    Shellonius funk, you should know that a father would never want the murder of his daughter’s boyfriend and her mother to look like HE did it!! Of course he couldn’t have done it in front of Sawyer, or anywhere else that Alex would know he was responsible! So, IF Ben did in fact orchestrate the killings (of Danielle and Karl), he HAD to make it look like an outside attack. Otherwise, he would look to Alex just like Michael looks to Walt.

    As for ol Benny Boy, I think the fact that so many people have decided he may be/is good makes him VERY dangerous. We still don’t know exactly WHAT is going on either on or off the island, just what we have been told (which is basically DON’T TRUST ANYBODY).

  336. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199867"]I can understand both sides, Walt not wanting anything to do with his father because he is a murderer, And Michael wanting to kill himself because he felt as though he let his son, and his island friends down and now neither one wanting anything to do with him. He seeks redemption and Ben offered that opportunity for him…I would take it too if I were in Michaels shoes. As far as Ben goes…have we really ever seen him kill anyone?? He shot Locke, but didnt kill him…He killed his father, but accorinding to Ben the whole Dharma Initiative was trying to exploit the island therefore not innocent, …So in Bens mind he doenst kill innocent people…thats like telling a lie so often you start to believe it!! [/quote]

    See the inconsistency there is that Mike doesn’t really seemed concerned about what the Losties think of him. He was only out to rescue his son. At the end of the day, he can’t feel like he let his son down, bcuz he was “peeping thru the venetian blinds with a tech in is hand” in other words, saving Walt by any means necessary.

    As far as Ben vs. Widmore goes, have we really ever seen WIDMORE kill anyone? We have witnessed Ben’s evil actions, intentions, lying etc. We have not seen Widmore’s (outside of being an A-hole to Desmond…even then he gave up his daughter’s address). Why are folks so quick to assume Widmore is more evil than Ben? Is it because Ben is being painted as evil, and we know there’s a ‘twist to the story’ so we’re going to say Ben’s good ahead of time?

  337. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="199811"]this show is officially ridiculous. I used to be a fan but how is it that Walt & Michael return alive from the island, back to Brooklyn, and nobody from the neighborhood (or the media) catches on to this or notices this???[/quote]

    When I travel I don’t tell my neighbors which flight number I am taking, or where I am going. On top of that, Mike and Walt are back under assumed names and we don’t know if the place they are living (or the mother is living) is a place they have lived for a long time, or just recently moved to. Could have “received” that house as part of their new identity.

  338. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199883"]him messed up is the guilt of killing Anna Lucia and Libby. I think this is made clear by Libby’s appearances on this episode. He seems to be haunted by her. He commited murder as an act of desperation to get to his son[/quote]

    My other issue that I alluded to and skee just kinda reminded me was that, Mike is about to blow up the ship, to save his Lost friends, LIBBY appears to him and pleads with him NOT to do it. Shouldn’t that trigger in his mind that “hey, Libby, a fellow Lostie and a person I feel some sort of indebtedness to, does NOT want me to do what BEN requests of me…there is something wrong with this redemption path.” But he goes on ahead and pushes the button anyway.

  339. skweez says:

    About this whole “they’ll kill everyone on the island” bit. SO WHAT. Atleast, that’s what the Losties should be saying. They are in a lose-lose situation. If they give up Ben, then they’ll kill everyone on the island. If they don’t give up Ben, they’ll kill everyone until they get Ben. The Losties are on a deserted island with no where to run. They can not bring in reinforcements and can not re-up on their ammo. It just seems that maybe they’re not really thinking about their precarious situation.

  340. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199863"]Relatively new to this blog (which rules by the way) and first time commentor so I apologize if this is the wrong forum to ask this, but what is Hammer’s whisper theory that everyone seems to agree with?[/quote]
    Everyone who knows…skip this post.

    Lar, my theory in brief:
    I believe that the whispers that you often hear in the jungle, sometimes when smokey is around and almost always when someone/something appears to a character are made by people who have died and are stuck on the island. I believe that these whisperers are now part of the island’s security system that includes smokey. If you go to lostpedia.com and look up “whisper transcripts” you will see that the whisperers COULD be assumed to include Eko, Boone, Christian, Ana Lucia and others. I haven’t really decided yet how important this all would be, but it seems to that since the whispers happen quite often, they are significant. But read the transcripts and decide for yourself!

  341. Lar says:

    wicked. thanks hammer

  342. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199908"]About this whole “they’ll kill everyone on the island” bit. SO WHAT. Atleast, that’s what the Losties should be saying. They are in a lose-lose situation. If they give up Ben, then they’ll kill everyone on the island. If they don’t give up Ben, they’ll kill everyone until they get Ben. The Losties are on a deserted island with no where to run. They can not bring in reinforcements and can not re-up on their ammo. It just seems that maybe they’re not really thinking about their precarious situation.[/quote]
    Oh, I think they are thinking of it! Hey, no one wants to die and they have been survivors for this long. They don’t know WHAT to do, so they are weighing their options (including whether or not to trust Locke).

  343. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199904"]
    As far as Ben vs. Widmore goes, have we really ever seen WIDMORE kill anyone? We have witnessed Ben’s evil actions, intentions, lying etc. We have not seen Widmore’s (outside of being an A-hole to Desmond…even then he gave up his daughter’s address). Why are folks so quick to assume Widmore is more evil than Ben? Is it because Ben is being painted as evil, and we know there’s a ‘twist to the story’ so we’re going to say Ben’s good ahead of time?[/quote]
    Not total proof, but he did beat the snot out of someone on Ben’s video…

  344. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199895"][quote comment="199809"]
    [/quote]
    The redemption would be judged by the island, just as Eko was. If the island determines that Michael’s actions in helping to protect it are worthy, than he will be redeemed for killing.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^
    See I also have a slightly different take on Eko’s death, but it’s been so long that I forget what the basis of it was, but anyway, I felt that Eko died from a “course correction” of sorts. That it was Eko who was supposed to die on the drug plane, not his brother. He knew this, and accepted his fate, when smokey came to correct it.

    Have folks guessed on the redemptions that have occurred for all of the deaths? I am curious as to what Shannon’s would have been, or Libby’s, or do they fall into that category at all?

  345. Rick says:

    I either found a mistake in the show of March 20th or a future clue. It was revealed that the fake plane crash was a Boeing 777. The actual plane that crashed was a DC-10. These aircraft are completely different. The 777 is a 2 engine and the DC-10 a 3 engine. Anyone preforming a deep sea salvage would easily recognize the difference. How could the writers make an obvious mistake unless in the future it will be discovered that the plane that was found was the wrong one.

  346. Miraks says:

    As far as Walt is concerned, people seem to harp on the fact that he seems “taller” or “older” at times. I think Walt is just supposed to be a ten year old- consistent with island and real time (which imho are the same).
    It is hard to do a show with child-actors, especially when the show covers a short time in several seasons. I think the directors had two choices, find a new actor to play Walt (something that other shows have done and always seems odd), or try to use camera angles to somewhat hide the fact that the ten year old is now played by a teenager. The directors know that it means the viewers will need to give them a pass on that one and not over-analyze or harp on that fact too much, but I think that is why they gave us that line about “Walt looking bigger”. I saw that as a “I know we’re asking you to just go with Walt not having aged, but “wink, wink”, we are not trying to hide that the actor has grown up a bit.

  347. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199912"][quote comment="199904"]
    As far as Ben vs. Widmore goes, have we really ever seen WIDMORE kill anyone? We have witnessed Ben’s evil actions, intentions, lying etc. We have not seen Widmore’s (outside of being an A-hole to Desmond…even then he gave up his daughter’s address). Why are folks so quick to assume Widmore is more evil than Ben? Is it because Ben is being painted as evil, and we know there’s a ‘twist to the story’ so we’re going to say Ben’s good ahead of time?[/quote]
    Not total proof, but he did beat the snot out of someone on Ben’s video…[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^
    He beat the snot out of one of BEN’S people though right?

  348. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199905"][quote comment="199811"]this show is officially ridiculous. I used to be a fan but how is it that Walt & Michael return alive from the island, back to Brooklyn, and nobody from the neighborhood (or the media) catches on to this or notices this???[/quote]

    When I travel I don’t tell my neighbors which flight number I am taking, or where I am going. On top of that, Mike and Walt are back under assumed names and we don’t know if the place they are living (or the mother is living) is a place they have lived for a long time, or just recently moved to. Could have “received” that house as part of their new identity.[/quote]
    ________________________
    Furthermore, Walt hasn’t lived in the states since he was a baby. The reason he and Michael were on OA815 is that Michael went there to take custody of Walt after his mother died. So virtually noone in the US knows Walt.

  349. Lins says:

    [quote comment="199907"][quote comment="199883"]him messed up is the guilt of killing Anna Lucia and Libby. I think this is made clear by Libby’s appearances on this episode. He seems to be haunted by her. He commited murder as an act of desperation to get to his son[/quote]

    My other issue that I alluded to and skee just kinda reminded me was that, Mike is about to blow up the ship, to save his Lost friends, LIBBY appears to him and pleads with him NOT to do it. Shouldn’t that trigger in his mind that “hey, Libby, a fellow Lostie and a person I feel some sort of indebtedness to, does NOT want me to do what BEN requests of me…there is something wrong with this redemption path.” But he goes on ahead and pushes the button anyway.[/quote]

    Yes, but wasn’t it Libby who sold Desmond the boat that eventually left him stranded on the island…isn’t there a possibility that she was somehow connected to Widmore and maybe that’s why she shows up to try to get Michael to stop blowing up Widmore’s freighter?

  350. Lins says:

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I think Libby was “sent there by Widmore” or anything like that…just a possibility that she just happens to show up when he’s about to blow up the ship.

  351. Michael says:

    I thought correction at first to. When Shannon and Boone got the wrong seats, Charlie went to the bathroom; the pilot was the wrong person. These were all people who died that were in the wrong seat during the crash. But someone talk me out of that theory awhile ago with a better one.[quote comment="199920"]Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that I think Libby was “sent there by Widmore” or anything like that…just a possibility that she just happens to show up when he’s about to blow up the ship.[/quote]

    Defiantly think Libby is/ was working for one of the power guys

  352. Lins says:

    Also, if the island won’t let you kill yourself until it has it’s redemption…what “work” does Jack still have to do? Was it the island that kept him from dying when he tried to commit suicide? I think so, but I think there’s (of course) many more answers to come :)

  353. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199825"]We do not know that Miles knows Michael is not Kevin Johnson. After he said you’re not Kevin Johnson he went on to say 80% of the people on this boat aren’t who they say they are or have something to hide. I think by saying that he was making a broad comment towards Michael and not directly saying to him I know who you really are.[/quote]
    He said “Your name isn’t Kevin.” I don’t necessarly think he knew who Michael was but he knew he wasn’t Kevin. I think it said more about Miles than anything else. Is he able, in additon to talking to ghosts, to tell when someone is lying? His comment that 80% were hiding something show that he knew this but wouldn’t reveal any of their “lie,” unless it directly benefited him. I still want a Miles epi.

  354. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199923"]Also, if the island won’t let you kill yourself until it has it’s redemption…what “work” does Jack still have to do? Was it the island that kept him from dying when he tried to commit suicide? I think so, but I think there’s (of course) many more answers to come :)[/quote]

    I thought of that earlier but What does jack need redemption for ? Does everyone that survived crash have to go through this process?

  355. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199843"][quote comment="199837"][quote comment="199828"]
    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    The full quote from the shop keeper, per Lostpedia, was:
    “What about this… In the year of the dragon, it brings good luck”
    To me this implies it WAS the year of the dragon, otherwise he would have picked up a stuffed horse, or pig, or whatever animal whose year it was at that time.[/quote]

    For me the shopkeeper’s quote just smacked of desperation to sell him anything but the Panda. If it were actually the YOTD, it would be an even bigger selling point to say, “IT’S the YOTD, you gotta want this item.” Instead because he is an honest shopkeeper, he’s like, “IN the YOTD it will bring good luck.”

    I don’t know if it is that big a deal, but this was one of my pet peeves with regard to the shopkeeper’s comment, because folks took it as definitive that it was 2000. Besides, that would seem like too obvious a clue that it was a FB, imho.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    What the shopkeeper said was a translation from Korean. I think that the asian speach pattern would say “in the year of the dragon this brings good luck” and that would mean it was the year of the dragon. My ex-mother in law was japenese and she would have said it that way.

  356. Lins says:

    [quote comment="199927"][quote comment="199923"]Also, if the island won’t let you kill yourself until it has it’s redemption…what “work” does Jack still have to do? Was it the island that kept him from dying when he tried to commit suicide? I think so, but I think there’s (of course) many more answers to come :)[/quote]

    I thought of that earlier but What does jack need redemption for ? Does everyone that survived crash have to go through this process?[/quote]

    I don’t know…but if you look at all the O6ers (except Aaron), Jack is the only one so far to show that same suicidal desperation that he either has to go back and finish what needs to be finished or he just needs to die. The only other one that I could see coming close to that type of mentality is Hurley. I think he also knows that he has to get back…but it’s all a mystery as to why!

  357. Lins says:

    [quote comment="199926"][quote comment="199825"]We do not know that Miles knows Michael is not Kevin Johnson. After he said you’re not Kevin Johnson he went on to say 80% of the people on this boat aren’t who they say they are or have something to hide. I think by saying that he was making a broad comment towards Michael and not directly saying to him I know who you really are.[/quote]
    He said “Your name isn’t Kevin.” I don’t necessarly think he knew who Michael was but he knew he wasn’t Kevin. I think it said more about Miles than anything else. Is he able, in additon to talking to ghosts, to tell when someone is lying? His comment that 80% were hiding something show that he knew this but wouldn’t reveal any of their “lie,” unless it directly benefited him. I still want a Miles epi.[/quote]

    ****************
    So is Miles really Miles? I mean, it sounds a little absurd, but if you think about Miles Straum (“maelstrom”), Charlotte Lewis (C.S. Lewis), Daniel Faraday (Faraday the physicist or whatever)…I’m sure they’re all just the writers using literary and scientific greats to make us all research the names…but don’t they all sound a little made up?

    Then the question becomes…how did Ben know their “names”?

  358. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="199931"][quote comment="199926"][quote comment="199825"]We do not know that Miles knows Michael is not Kevin Johnson. After he said you’re not Kevin Johnson he went on to say 80% of the people on this boat aren’t who they say they are or have something to hide. I think by saying that he was making a broad comment towards Michael and not directly saying to him I know who you really are.[/quote]
    He said “Your name isn’t Kevin.” I don’t necessarly think he knew who Michael was but he knew he wasn’t Kevin. I think it said more about Miles than anything else. Is he able, in additon to talking to ghosts, to tell when someone is lying? His comment that 80% were hiding something show that he knew this but wouldn’t reveal any of their “lie,” unless it directly benefited him. I still want a Miles epi.[/quote]

    ****************
    So is Miles really Miles? I mean, it sounds a little absurd, but if you think about Miles Straum (“maelstrom”), Charlotte Lewis (C.S. Lewis), Daniel Faraday (Faraday the physicist or whatever)…I’m sure they’re all just the writers using literary and scientific greats to make us all research the names…but don’t they all sound a little made up?

    Then the question becomes…how did Ben know their “names”?[/quote]
    _________________________________________
    They’re part of the 20% that used their real names.

  359. i’m guessing there are gas masks at The Temple…

  360. vavila says:

    [quote comment="199929"][quote comment="199927"][quote comment="199923"]Also, if the island won’t let you kill yourself until it has it’s redemption…what “work” does Jack still have to do? Was it the island that kept him from dying when he tried to commit suicide? I think so, but I think there’s (of course) many more answers to come :)[/quote]

    I thought of that earlier but What does jack need redemption for ? Does everyone that survived crash have to go through this process?[/quote]

    I don’t know…but if you look at all the O6ers (except Aaron), Jack is the only one so far to show that same suicidal desperation that he either has to go back and finish what needs to be finished or he just needs to die. The only other one that I could see coming close to that type of mentality is Hurley. I think he also knows that he has to get back…but it’s all a mystery as to why![/quote]

    I thought that Jack in FF wants to go back to the island and therfore takes the plane all the time, but he cannot go back. Is it because he does not work with Ben and therefore does not know how to come back? If island was preventing Jack from dying i think there would be a way for him to return there (even if this way is through Ben, Ben would want Jack back on the island to resolve whatever needs to be resolved so that Jack does not live forever on the mainland and become a human showcase for the island’s powers). I agree that Jack hits a similar low as Michael did, but unlike Michael, Jack cannot come back and island’s forces are not preventing him from dying.

  361. Hurley's Dad says:

    I’m guessing people with four toes shoot guns with silencers……it just makes sense.
    :)

  362. Trixanna says:

    When Jack tells Kate in the FF, does he want to go back to rescue the rest of the Losties? I don’t think he wants to go back to live, nor does Hurley. They know the rest of the Losties are still there and they want to rescue them, right? It would torture me to know that I am alive and well on the mainland when some of my closest friends (even for a short time) are still living on the island hoping for rescue.

  363. i think jack simply wants to go back because he’s mr. fix-it. but i also like the theory that he’s unable to kill himself…

  364. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199928"][quote comment="199843"][quote comment="199837"][quote comment="199828"]
    They weren’t necessarily married in 2000. If you are refering to the shop keeper’s comment about the year of the dragon, remember that he said, “In the year of the dragon…..”, not that it WAS the YOTD. That makes a difference to me.[/quote]
    The full quote from the shop keeper, per Lostpedia, was:
    “What about this… In the year of the dragon, it brings good luck”
    To me this implies it WAS the year of the dragon, otherwise he would have picked up a stuffed horse, or pig, or whatever animal whose year it was at that time.[/quote]

    For me the shopkeeper’s quote just smacked of desperation to sell him anything but the Panda. If it were actually the YOTD, it would be an even bigger selling point to say, “IT’S the YOTD, you gotta want this item.” Instead because he is an honest shopkeeper, he’s like, “IN the YOTD it will bring good luck.”

    I don’t know if it is that big a deal, but this was one of my pet peeves with regard to the shopkeeper’s comment, because folks took it as definitive that it was 2000. Besides, that would seem like too obvious a clue that it was a FB, imho.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    What the shopkeeper said was a translation from Korean. I think that the asian speach pattern would say “in the year of the dragon this brings good luck” and that would mean it was the year of the dragon. My ex-mother in law was japenese and she would have said it that way.[/quote]

    There you go, that will shut me up on that issue (but I’m still of the belief that it was not 2000 in that FB, bcuz I don’t think they were married that long) because I can’t refute an apparent cultural difference.

  365. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199934"][quote comment="199929"][quote comment="199927"][quote comment="199923"]Also, if the island won’t let you kill yourself until it has it’s redemption…what “work” does Jack still have to do? Was it the island that kept him from dying when he tried to commit suicide? I think so, but I think there’s (of course) many more answers to come :)[/quote]

    I thought of that earlier but What does jack need redemption for ? Does everyone that survived crash have to go through this process?[/quote]

    I don’t know…but if you look at all the O6ers (except Aaron), Jack is the only one so far to show that same suicidal desperation that he either has to go back and finish what needs to be finished or he just needs to die. The only other one that I could see coming close to that type of mentality is Hurley. I think he also knows that he has to get back…but it’s all a mystery as to why![/quote]

    I thought that Jack in FF wants to go back to the island and therfore takes the plane all the time, but he cannot go back. Is it because he does not work with Ben and therefore does not know how to come back? If island was preventing Jack from dying i think there would be a way for him to return there (even if this way is through Ben, Ben would want Jack back on the island to resolve whatever needs to be resolved so that Jack does not live forever on the mainland and become a human showcase for the island’s powers). I agree that Jack hits a similar low as Michael did, but unlike Michael, Jack cannot come back and island’s forces are not preventing him from dying.[/quote]
    ———-

    Well the only reason Michael went back is because Ben found him and needed him. Ben might not need Jack nor would he want jack. Or like with Michael and the bomb. He goes to do it and the “not yet” flag pops up. Jack could still be at the “not yet” point?

  366. Johnny_Lost says:

    Just want to bring this up

    there 6 numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42
    There are six survivors(oceanic6)
    there are 6 dharma stations
    there will be six season of lost.

    Are there any other links to the sequence of six??

  367. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199913"]Have folks guessed on the redemptions that have occurred for all of the deaths? I am curious as to what Shannon’s would have been, or Libby’s, or do they fall into that category at all?[/quote]
    IMO they were plane old murdered. Free will of sorts…the island wasn’t involved in their deaths.

  368. [quote comment="199945"]Just want to bring this up

    there 6 numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42
    There are six survivors(oceanic6)
    there are 6 dharma stations
    there will be six season of lost.

    Are there any other links to the sequence of six??[/quote]
    ___________________________

    it seems like i remember hearing 6 hours once about something and that striking a chord….anyways, here’s what i DO have:

    – 6th st. bridge: the bridge jack was gonna jump from.

    – 6 of clubs: one of the cards in the test with dan and charlotte.

    – 6 months to live: kate’s mom has been told this for the past four years.

    – 6 years apart: jin and sun. according to the zodiac, this makes them the least compatible. [found that one at LOSTpedia!]

  369. RGS says:

    [quote comment="199946"][quote comment="199913"]Have folks guessed on the redemptions that have occurred for all of the deaths? I am curious as to what Shannon’s would have been, or Libby’s, or do they fall into that category at all?[/quote]
    IMO they were plane old murdered. Free will of sorts…the island wasn’t involved in their deaths.[/quote]

    Wasn’t Shannon chasing Walt after his backward talk appearance? Like maybe the island “put her in the path” of catching a hot one from Ana Lucia. Maybe her redemption was in starting to help out, as opposed to catching rays. I dunno just guessing. I’ve got no clue on Libby.

  370. shannon’s death also indirectly caused the tailies to meet back up with the beach/cave crew. maybe she was another sacrifice.

  371. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199948"]
    Wasn’t Shannon chasing Walt after his backward talk appearance? Like maybe the island “put her in the path” of catching a hot one from Ana Lucia. Maybe her redemption was in starting to help out, as opposed to catching rays. I dunno just guessing. I’ve got no clue on Libby.[/quote]
    Now that you have me thinking. As I remember it, she said something about finally being able to love someone, then she chased Walt. Maybe it was redemption of sorts, her “torture” was over?

  372. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199945"]Just want to bring this up

    there 6 numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42
    There are six survivors(oceanic6)
    there are 6 dharma stations
    there will be six season of lost.

    Are there any other links to the sequence of six??[/quote]

    Can we find out who was sitting in the seats 4, 8, 15, 15, 23, 42, on the plane. Or is that old news?

  373. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199848"][quote comment="199841"]
    ……
    Please..do not take this as bigotry as I really don’t care what people do in their own homes. It is meant more as a complaint towards the necessity for having it in the story, as well as how confusing Tom’s character now becomes. On the island he seems to be a wimpy third-string character….off island he’s the alpha male of a gay relationship….ordering both his lover and Michael around like he’s the guy in charge.
    …..
    [/quote]
    I disagree somewhat with this. The first few times we saw him on the island he came across as a scary dude – when he captured Walt, when he encountered Locke, Jack and Sawyer in the jungle in The Hunting Party, when he was part of the group that captured Michael as he was on is way to rescue Walt. He was portrayed as Ethan’s superior in Claire’s FB that showed what happened when she was kidnapped. In the season 3 finale he wanted to disobey Ben’s order and actually kill Sayid, Jin, and Bernard. Sure, at times in season 3 he was portrayed as a more mild-mannered guy, and subservient to Ben, but other than that he’s been pretty assertive if not aggressive.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I think that the scene with Tom in the penthouse was to show him as human and vunerable in a way, not the thug he was on the island. His is shown in a relationship and enjoying a penthouse and good food. A sharp contrast to the island. He is willing to give this up to be on the island, so, we are to beleive he has good motivations to be there.

  374. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199953"][quote comment="199948"]
    Wasn’t Shannon chasing Walt after his backward talk appearance? Like maybe the island “put her in the path” of catching a hot one from Ana Lucia. Maybe her redemption was in starting to help out, as opposed to catching rays. I dunno just guessing. I’ve got no clue on Libby.[/quote]
    Now that you have me thinking. As I remember it, she said something about finally being able to love someone, then she chased Walt. Maybe it was redemption of sorts, her “torture” was over?[/quote]

    So there was Boone, Shannon, Ana, libby, Charlie, Eko. The one guy Steve or Scott, can’t remeber wich one. Anymore?

  375. lost4ever says:

    Did anyone else find the scene in the hospital strange?
    When they first show the patient next to him(pre-Libby) he has tubes in him. And he looks alot like Alvar Hanso, as someone else mentioned. Now in the same scene (post_libby), the patient is clearly wearing an oxygen mask and looks a lot like INMAN. It is definitely no the same person. You can tall by the hairline.

  376. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199956"]
    So there was Boone, Shannon, Ana, libby, Charlie, Eko. The one guy Steve or Scott, can’t remeber wich one. Anymore?[/quote]
    …Dr. Artz, Paolo, Nikki…

  377. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199960"]Did anyone else find the scene in the hospital strange?
    When they first show the patient next to him(pre-Libby) he has tubes in him. And he looks alot like Alvar Hanso, as someone else mentioned. Now in the same scene (post_libby), the patient is clearly wearing an oxygen mask and looks a lot like INMAN. It is definitely no the same person. You can tall by the hairline.[/quote]
    Actually if you look at the ears…same guy…but why the different equipment as we discussed last night?

  378. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199963"][quote comment="199956"]
    So there was Boone, Shannon, Ana, libby, Charlie, Eko. The one guy Steve or Scott, can’t remeber wich one. Anymore?[/quote]
    …Dr. Artz, Paolo, Nikki…[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Capt. Seth Norris, Barb Miller-riptide, Nathan-Goodwin killed, Gary Troupe-wrote Bad Twin(got sucked into engine), and a couple folks that died of their injuries including the agent escorting Kate.

  379. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199932"][quote comment="199931"][quote comment="199926"][quote comment="199825"]We do not know that Miles knows Michael is not Kevin Johnson. After he said you’re not Kevin Johnson he went on to say 80% of the people on this boat aren’t who they say they are or have something to hide. I think by saying that he was making a broad comment towards Michael and not directly saying to him I know who you really are.[/quote]
    He said “Your name isn’t Kevin.” I don’t necessarly think he knew who Michael was but he knew he wasn’t Kevin. I think it said more about Miles than anything else. Is he able, in additon to talking to ghosts, to tell when someone is lying? His comment that 80% were hiding something show that he knew this but wouldn’t reveal any of their “lie,” unless it directly benefited him. I still want a Miles epi.[/quote]

    ****************
    So is Miles really Miles? I mean, it sounds a little absurd, but if you think about Miles Straum (“maelstrom”), Charlotte Lewis (C.S. Lewis), Daniel Faraday (Faraday the physicist or whatever)…I’m sure they’re all just the writers using literary and scientific greats to make us all research the names…but don’t they all sound a little made up?

    Then the question becomes…how did Ben know their “names”?[/quote]
    _________________________________________
    They’re part of the 20% that used their real names.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I think Miles said 80% have secrets, not fake names.

  380. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199965"][quote comment="199960"]Did anyone else find the scene in the hospital strange?
    When they first show the patient next to him(pre-Libby) he has tubes in him. And he looks alot like Alvar Hanso, as someone else mentioned. Now in the same scene (post_libby), the patient is clearly wearing an oxygen mask and looks a lot like INMAN. It is definitely no the same person. You can tall by the hairline.[/quote]
    Actually if you look at the ears…same guy…but why the different equipment as we discussed last night?[/quote]
    ———–
    actually, if you look at the hairline, different guy

  381. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="199805"]Michael: So we are to believe that he can not convince his son that they should be ecstatic to have gotten off that deserted island, and have been reunited from a kidnapping? His son would be so mad at him, for the nitty gritty details of their escape from that hell hole, that it would drive Mike to suicide?

    I didn’t get an answer as to why Mike couldn’t say, “Mom, (his own mother won’t let him see his son????) we crashed on that plane, we were on an island with some crazy folks, there are other survivors left behind, but I have no way of knowing how to get back there.” If folks are saying well he’d have to tell what he did to get off that island, it’s Mike’s word against a lying Ben, who would probably not be around to go to court anyway, let alone be a trusted witness. Who from the island would testify against Mike for coming back and rescuing them?

    Wouldn’t that be the redemption Mike needed in order to get back his son’s respect? I needed for there to be more of a reason for Mike’s silence about the island upon his return.[/quote]

    Well the thing is that we don’t know what happened between the dory and New York. We don’t know HOW he got to the U.S., what he had to promise to be allowed to got there, who he had to pretend to be, and who is orchestrating everything. There are a lot of unknowns in this respect. It could well be that he isn’t allowed to explain what really happened.

    : ) P

  382. PJSander says:

    In light of the theories that Libby is/was working for somebody, I will say that I ALWAYS thought it was VERY odd that she was carrying that pillow conveniently in front of her when she was shot.

    Did we see her dead body? Was she buried? Could it be that she was told she MIGHT be shot and to take (okay a stretch) a bullet-proof pillow with her everywhere? Could she have then escaped in the melee that followed the shooting?

    Someone with access to the applicable episodes available, please chime in!

    : ) P

  383. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199936"]When Jack tells Kate in the FF, does he want to go back to rescue the rest of the Losties? I don’t think he wants to go back to live, nor does Hurley. They know the rest of the Losties are still there and they want to rescue them, right? It would torture me to know that I am alive and well on the mainland when some of my closest friends (even for a short time) are still living on the island hoping for rescue.[/quote]
    Hard to say whether or not they are hoping for rescue. They may just be happy with their lives on the island! Problem is, what will they do for food and electricity, etc., after Dharma (or whomever) pulls the plug?

  384. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199969"][quote comment="199805"]Michael: So we are to believe that he can not convince his son that they should be ecstatic to have gotten off that deserted island, and have been reunited from a kidnapping? His son would be so mad at him, for the nitty gritty details of their escape from that hell hole, that it would drive Mike to suicide?

    I didn’t get an answer as to why Mike couldn’t say, “Mom, (his own mother won’t let him see his son????) we crashed on that plane, we were on an island with some crazy folks, there are other survivors left behind, but I have no way of knowing how to get back there.” If folks are saying well he’d have to tell what he did to get off that island, it’s Mike’s word against a lying Ben, who would probably not be around to go to court anyway, let alone be a trusted witness. Who from the island would testify against Mike for coming back and rescuing them?

    Wouldn’t that be the redemption Mike needed in order to get back his son’s respect? I needed for there to be more of a reason for Mike’s silence about the island upon his return.[/quote]

    Well the thing is that we don’t know what happened between the dory and New York. We don’t know HOW he got to the U.S., what he had to promise to be allowed to got there, who he had to pretend to be, and who is orchestrating everything. There are a lot of unknowns in this respect. It could well be that he isn’t allowed to explain what really happened.

    : ) P[/quote]
    —————

    I think Walt had a stronger connection with not only the island but the people he was there with. And knowing that his father Did such horrible things to get off the island might brake the rocky relationship he had with him .

    And I’m sure ben would have made it clear to Michael not to talk about the island. The threat would be he would come and take walt back. To many unknowns.

  385. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199974"]In light of the theories that Libby is/was working for somebody, I will say that I ALWAYS thought it was VERY odd that she was carrying that pillow conveniently in front of her when she was shot.

    Did we see her dead body? Was she buried? Could it be that she was told she MIGHT be shot and to take (okay a stretch) a bullet-proof pillow with her everywhere? Could she have then escaped in the melee that followed the shooting?

    Someone with access to the applicable episodes available, please chime in!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———-
    They buried her. I think they had a funeral for her. Hurley spoke at it while Jack and Sayid were discussing their plan about Michael.

  386. lost4ever says:

    All the episodes are available on ABC.com

  387. Trixanna says:

    LOL PJ!!! One always wants to carry around their bullet proof pillow! I am not saying that she isn’t dead, but she sure looked dead to me. One never knows on this mysterious island though. Remember that things don’t stay buried for long. Yikes.

  388. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="199987"]LOL PJ!!! One always wants to carry around their bullet proof pillow! I am not saying that she isn’t dead, but she sure looked dead to me. One never knows on this mysterious island though. Remember that things don’t stay buried for long. Yikes.[/quote]
    ———
    Maybe it’s like Pet Cemetary

  389. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199974"]In light of the theories that Libby is/was working for somebody, I will say that I ALWAYS thought it was VERY odd that she was carrying that pillow conveniently in front of her when she was shot.

    Did we see her dead body? Was she buried? Could it be that she was told she MIGHT be shot and to take (okay a stretch) a bullet-proof pillow with her everywhere? Could she have then escaped in the melee that followed the shooting?

    Someone with access to the applicable episodes available, please chime in!

    : ) P[/quote]

    ==================

    Unfortunately they dead show her die. Jack and Hurly where in the room. They show the bodies that are rapped (don’t actual see the body) being placed in the hole. They don’t show them being covered up. That’s when Desmond’s boat arrives .

  390. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="199979"][quote comment="199936"]When Jack tells Kate in the FF, does he want to go back to rescue the rest of the Losties? I don’t think he wants to go back to live, nor does Hurley. They know the rest of the Losties are still there and they want to rescue them, right? It would torture me to know that I am alive and well on the mainland when some of my closest friends (even for a short time) are still living on the island hoping for rescue.[/quote]
    Hard to say whether or not they are hoping for rescue. They may just be happy with their lives on the island! Problem is, what will they do for food and electricity, etc., after Dharma (or whomever) pulls the plug?[/quote]
    *************
    Kind of like how Ben is happy living on the island? The Losties can’t be truly happy unless Ben is overthrown…. and they find a way to get food and supplies. Most of them do have very good reasons for staying on the island. I am just not sure which way to go with this. It seems like a lot of things would have to happen for them to be truly happy on the island as we know it.

  391. Rita says:

    [quote comment="199963"][quote comment="199956"]
    So there was Boone, Shannon, Ana, libby, Charlie, Eko. The one guy Steve or Scott, can’t remeber wich one. Anymore?[/quote]
    …Dr. Artz, Paolo, Nikki…[/quote]
    ****************

    Do you mean people who have died? The pilot, the marshall, several un-named tailies, the girl who drowned,… ?

  392. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199992"][quote comment="199979"][quote comment="199936"]When Jack tells Kate in the FF, does he want to go back to rescue the rest of the Losties? I don’t think he wants to go back to live, nor does Hurley. They know the rest of the Losties are still there and they want to rescue them, right? It would torture me to know that I am alive and well on the mainland when some of my closest friends (even for a short time) are still living on the island hoping for rescue.[/quote]
    Hard to say whether or not they are hoping for rescue. They may just be happy with their lives on the island! Problem is, what will they do for food and electricity, etc., after Dharma (or whomever) pulls the plug?[/quote]
    *************
    Kind of like how Ben is happy living on the island? The Losties can’t be truly happy unless Ben is overthrown…. and they find a way to get food and supplies. Most of them do have very good reasons for staying on the island. I am just not sure which way to go with this. It seems like a lot of things would have to happen for them to be truly happy on the island as we know it.[/quote]

    Well, whos left in Locke Town and do they have anything to go home to?

  393. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="199968"][quote comment="199965"][quote comment="199960"]Did anyone else find the scene in the hospital strange?
    When they first show the patient next to him(pre-Libby) he has tubes in him. And he looks alot like Alvar Hanso, as someone else mentioned. Now in the same scene (post_libby), the patient is clearly wearing an oxygen mask and looks a lot like INMAN. It is definitely no the same person. You can tall by the hairline.[/quote]
    Actually if you look at the ears…same guy…but why the different equipment as we discussed last night?[/quote]
    ———–
    actually, if you look at the hairline, different guy[/quote]
    Respectfully disagree, since you can’t see his hair line the second time…and the ears are the same.

  394. Michael says:

    Unfortunately they DID show her die. Jack and Hurly WERE in the room. They show the bodies that are WRAPPED (don’t actual see the body) being placed in the hole. They don’t show them being covered up. That’s when Desmond’s boat arrives .

  395. Michael says:

    [quote comment="199996"][quote comment="199963"][quote comment="199956"]
    So there was Boone, Shannon, Ana, libby, Charlie, Eko. The one guy Steve or Scott, can’t remeber wich one. Anymore?[/quote]
    …Dr. Artz, Paolo, Nikki…[/quote]
    ****************

    Do you mean people who have died? The pilot, the marshall, several un-named tailies, the girl who drowned,… ?[/quote]

    —————-

    Just trying to get a count.

  396. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200005"][quote comment="199996"][quote comment="199963"][quote comment="199956"]
    So there was Boone, Shannon, Ana, libby, Charlie, Eko. The one guy Steve or Scott, can’t remeber wich one. Anymore?[/quote]
    …Dr. Artz, Paolo, Nikki…[/quote]
    ****************

    Do you mean people who have died? The pilot, the marshall, several un-named tailies, the girl who drowned,… ?[/quote]

    —————-

    Just trying to get a count.[/quote]
    Oh…go to lostpedia.com and look up deaths…full list including off island.

  397. lost4ever says:

    That’s what’s great about this blog HAMMER. We can disagree on certain things and agree on others. Now, why would they put the oxygen mask on him post-Libby? There were whispers in that scene so was it a dream?
    Did anyone else think that Alex was looking a little pregnant?

  398. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200007"]That’s what’s great about this blog HAMMER. We can disagree on certain things and agree on others. Now, why would they put the oxygen mask on him post-Libby? There were whispers in that scene so was it a dream?
    Did anyone else think that Alex was looking a little pregnant?[/quote]
    Wow wouldn’t THAT be a twist?! Didn’t notice, but anything is possible with LOST!

  399. jaime says:

    A few things about Libby that intrigue me

    1. Her giving Des the boat
    2. She broke up the convo between Eko and Charlotte which allowed him to catch the flight
    3. She was in the Santa Rosa with Hurley
    4. She is the only one without an episode devoted to her
    5. We have never been told her last name or who her 3 past husbands were.
    6. Why is she in Michaels visions and not Ana Lucia?

    And yes Lost4ever, I thought Alex looked pregnant. That’s the first thing I said when we saw Karl put his arm around her…she was even touching her stomach when Ben interupted them to tell them of his plan.

  400. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200007"]That’s what’s great about this blog HAMMER. We can disagree on certain things and agree on others. Now, why would they put the oxygen mask on him post-Libby? There were whispers in that scene so was it a dream?
    Did anyone else think that Alex was looking a little pregnant?[/quote]
    Right on!
    I’m just as baffled as you on the bed dude.
    Didn’t notice a pooch on Alex…I’ll have to look.

  401. Michael says:

    [quote comment="200012"]A few things about Libby that intrigue me

    1. Her giving Des the boat
    2. She broke up the convo between Eko and Charlotte which allowed him to catch the flight
    3. She was in the Santa Rosa with Hurley
    4. She is the only one without an episode devoted to her
    5. We have never been told her last name or who her 3 past husbands were.
    6. Why is she in Michaels visions and not Ana Lucia?

    And yes Lost4ever, I thought Alex looked pregnant. That’s the first thing I said when we saw Karl put his arm around her…she was even touching her stomach when Ben interupted them to tell them of his plan.[/quote]

    I totally agree. That post looks fimilar. One of her husbands names was Dave.

  402. Bruno says:

    I am thinking back at older shows. THere were talks of the satellites phones brought by the freighter people (when we fist saw one, from Naomi I beleive) being “space age” or somewhat future looking. Are past that now? Have we accepted that they are from the year 2004, just that we had never seen such phones before.

    (I am still bothered about not seeing two helicopters on the freighter when it was ready to go and Michael was boarding it. And Naomi did crashed on the island but nobedy bothered to go see the crash site. THere could have been valuables in that downed helicopter, a radio for example. Anyway… )

  403. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200023"]And Naomi did crashed on the island but nobedy bothered to go see the crash site. THere could have been valuables in that downed helicopter, a radio for example. Anyway… )[/quote]
    I think it crashed into the ocean.

  404. jaime says:

    [quote comment="200021"][quote comment="200012"]A few things about Libby that intrigue me

    1. Her giving Des the boat
    2. She broke up the convo between Eko and Charlotte which allowed him to catch the flight
    3. She was in the Santa Rosa with Hurley
    4. She is the only one without an episode devoted to her
    5. We have never been told her last name or who her 3 past husbands were.
    6. Why is she in Michaels visions and not Ana Lucia?

    I totally agree. That post looks fimilar. One of her husbands names was Dave.

    ########################################
    I’m sure these questions have all been asked before hence the familiarity.
    Dave was the husband that died and named the boat after her right?
    Still, there has to be a reason that we don’t know her last name or haven’t seen a Libby centric episode

  405. Trixanna says:

    Alex could be prego?? What a twist. How do I miss these things??? That would give Ben more reason to have Karl killed, but why Danielle? Could Alex carry a baby to full-term? Okay, I know… we don’t even know if she is or isn’t pregnant. You just got my mind whirling now!

  406. jaime says:

    may seem silly , and i know its probably been asked before so no ridicule please :)
    When i reply to a comment, how do i do it so that my reply is bolder than what i am responding to….let’s hear the groans :)

  407. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200037"]may seem silly , and i know its probably been asked before so no ridicule please :)
    When i reply to a comment, how do i do it so that my reply is bolder than what i am responding to….let’s hear the groans :)[/quote]
    In the upper right corner of the post is a gray “Quote and Reply”. Click on this and it will take you directly to the submit comment section (where you post), with the whole quote already in place. Type under it and when you submit it, it will be as you wish.

  408. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200035"]Alex could be prego?? What a twist. How do I miss these things??? That would give Ben more reason to have Karl killed, but why Danielle? Could Alex carry a baby to full-term? Okay, I know… we don’t even know if she is or isn’t pregnant. You just got my mind whirling now![/quote]
    I don’t know why Ben would kill ANYBODY (I’m telling you, he is NOT GOOD) but with Danielle out of the way, Alex is all his again. If Alex IS preggers, it will add a lot of drama!

  409. jenny says:

    did the flashback happen before tom was killed in the season3 finale? or is he not dead.
    i didn’t think that they were on the ship for that long

  410. LostinSev says:

    Libby Widmore!!?? :)

  411. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200056"]Libby Widmore!!?? :)[/quote]
    Wouldn’t that be something???!!!

  412. Cindy says:

    Someone else has mentioned this theory about Alex maybe being pregnant- I dont think she looked pregnant but the way they filmed the scene of her and Carl playing with Aaron, Alex had her arm in front of her belly – sort of made it seem like she was. She definitely didn’t look pregnant when she put her hands in the air at the end and said she was Ben’s daughter. I think patchy is the shooter, by the way.

  413. Trixanna says:

    Hate to sound stupid here but WHY WOULD BEN WANT ALEX ALL TO HIMSELF?? Is it just to gross me out? Ugh… Rita, you are starting to convince me that Ben is NOT GOOD. In fact, I am starting to wonder if ANY of them are good.

    I need to attend a LostAholics meeting, do we have to wait til Thursday or can we have a couple this week? My mind is having a hard time grasping everything, it can only hold so much before my nose starts to bleed.

  414. Cindy says:

    does anyone remember what the survivors thought or said of the black box right after the crash of 815? i think sayid or someone commented on it. i just don’t know how widmore got it.

  415. LostinSev says:

    If he thinks his “daughter” Alex is pregnant, he maybe wants to get her off the island to save her life.?? Maybe the Temple is a port of some sort. Also, do we know whether or not all of the Others are still alive? Safe??

  416. Trixanna says:

    Great thought LostinSev. One does have to wonder exactly what the temple is and why it is so safe when the rest of the island isn’t.

  417. Michael says:

    [quote comment="200066"]does anyone remember what the survivors thought or said of the black box right after the crash of 815? i think sayid or someone commented on it. i just don’t know how widmore got it.[/quote]

    =========

    I think widmore got the black box out of the fake crash.

  418. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200064"]Someone else has mentioned this theory about Alex maybe being pregnant- I dont think she looked pregnant but the way they filmed the scene of her and Carl playing with Aaron, Alex had her arm in front of her belly – sort of made it seem like she was. She definitely didn’t look pregnant when she put her hands in the air at the end and said she was Ben’s daughter. I think patchy is the shooter, by the way.[/quote]
    **************

    One of the strongest points I can think of in favor of BEN being responsible for killing Karl and Danielle is: If he truly knew all along what the tots were up to, why didn’t he send Alex and co. to the temple then? Why not send her with Richard?
    He sent Richard and co. to the temple and grabbed Alex to “take her to her people” or something like that (anyone have an exact quote?). He didn’t SEEM all that concerned about her then. (Yes I know he was frustrated by her teenage angst).
    I like the idea of Patchy being the shooter, but I REALLY DO think he is dead. :(

  419. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200072"][quote comment="200066"]does anyone remember what the survivors thought or said of the black box right after the crash of 815? i think sayid or someone commented on it. i just don’t know how widmore got it.[/quote]

    =========

    I think widmore got the black box out of the fake crash.[/quote]
    ***************
    I would STILL like to hear what it says!

  420. Deangoodes says:

    Rita 419 – Ben was being held as a prisoner at that point. He was in no position to tell Alex (who was listening to Rousseau and Carl at that point, and Locke) where they should go.

    Earlier someone asked why Libby showed up and not Anna Lucia. It could be as simple as Michelle Rodriguez (I think that’s the name of the actress playing Anna Lucia) not being available to film, due to prior commitments or legal troubles(If I’m not mistaken she’s been cited for a DUI or two in the last year). Or it could be that Libby still has a part to play in upcoming shows, via flashbacks or current events(Only as a vision or dream, I believe she is dead).

  421. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200080"]Earlier someone asked why Libby showed up and not Anna Lucia. It could be as simple as Michelle Rodriguez (I think that’s the name of the actress playing Anna Lucia) not being available to film, due to prior commitments or legal troubles(If I’m not mistaken she’s been cited for a DUI or two in the last year). Or it could be that Libby still has a part to play in upcoming shows, via flashbacks or current events(Only as a vision or dream, I believe she is dead).[/quote]IMO we will find out that Libby was a Widmore-ian.

  422. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200080"]Rita 419 – Ben was being held as a prisoner at that point. He was in no position to tell Alex (who was listening to Rousseau and Carl at that point, and Locke) where they should go.
    [/quote]
    Yes, BUT he had many opportunities afterward, BEFORE he states that the threat is imminent. True, they may not have gone, but he seems persuasive enough. He could have found a way to get them to go IF he had really only their safety in mind.

  423. Deangoodes says:

    Rita 423–I believe Ben to be behind the killing of Rousseau and Carl, and if he sent Alex and them to a place to be killed maybe he had no way to communicate to his snipers when and where they would be. He may have had to wait until they got to the housing area to do that.

  424. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200085"]Rita 423–I believe Ben to be behind the killing of Rousseau and Carl, and if he sent Alex and them to a place to be killed maybe he had no way to communicate to his snipers when and where they would be. He may have had to wait until they got to the housing area to do that.[/quote]
    Yes, this is my point. That he did wait. If he had wanted only their safety etc., he COULD/WOULD have sent them earlier.

  425. Dharma peanut butter says:

    Although I have paid close attention to all of the episodes, this one had me confused about whether or not Ben is Alex’s real father. I felt an odd connection between Rouseau and Ben. Any thoughts?

    They definitely hinted that Alex is pregnant and Ben looked uncomfortable watching her with Karl.

    and “bullet proof pillow”? hilarious. question everything! haha

  426. Hammer says:

    I don’t know about the bullet proof pillow, but I am trying to figure out what she has under the nurse uniform. It looks like there is a pillow under her top…just looks goofy.

  427. LostinSev says:

    Okay! My neighbor told me her theory and I want to run it by you guys…

    She thinks that island time is six years behind real world time. For instance, when the Losties crashed on the island they are now six years behind. The island time was always set back every 180 minutes and it never advanced until the capsule exploded. Now the island is (maybe)starting to catch up with real time.??

    This would explain why Locke is not paralized (his body before his accident) and Rose doesn’t have cancer (before diagnosis). I know this may not make sense, but that is what my neighbor thinks. Please give thoughts and/or disprove this theory. Thanks!

  428. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200101"]Okay! My neighbor told me her theory and I want to run it by you guys…

    She thinks that island time is six years behind real world time. For instance, when the Losties crashed on the island they are now six years behind. The island time was always set back every 180 minutes and it never advanced until the capsule exploded. Now the island is (maybe)starting to catch up with real time.??

    This would explain why Locke is not paralized (his body before his accident) and Rose doesn’t have cancer (before diagnosis). I know this may not make sense, but that is what my neighbor thinks. Please give thoughts and/or disprove this theory. Thanks![/quote]
    Possible of course, but why does she feel it is six years and wouldn’t it make everyone go back six years? Michael would notice that Walt would only be 3 or 4, Claire wouldn’t be pregnant, etc?

  429. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200103"][quote comment="200101"]Okay! My neighbor told me her theory and I want to run it by you guys…

    She thinks that island time is six years behind real world time. For instance, when the Losties crashed on the island they are now six years behind. The island time was always set back every 180 minutes and it never advanced until the capsule exploded. Now the island is (maybe)starting to catch up with real time.??

    This would explain why Locke is not paralized (his body before his accident) and Rose doesn’t have cancer (before diagnosis). I know this may not make sense, but that is what my neighbor thinks. Please give thoughts and/or disprove this theory. Thanks![/quote]
    Possible of course, but why does she feel it is six years and wouldn’t it make everyone go back six years? Michael would notice that Walt would only be 3 or 4, Claire wouldn’t be pregnant, etc?[/quote]
    ********************

    This theory was explained (via a weblink) a couple of weeks ago. I wish I could remember the source, you should check it out. Anybody remember it?

  430. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200099"]Although I have paid close attention to all of the episodes, this one had me confused about whether or not Ben is Alex’s real father. I felt an odd connection between Rouseau and Ben. Any thoughts?

    They definitely hinted that Alex is pregnant and Ben looked uncomfortable watching her with Karl.

    and “bullet proof pillow”? hilarious. question everything! haha[/quote]
    How did they hint that Alex was pregnant? I guess I missed that. Enlighten me please!

  431. Hammer says:

    That one escapes me Rita. Don’t remember it.

  432. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199974"]In light of the theories that Libby is/was working for somebody, I will say that I ALWAYS thought it was VERY odd that she was carrying that pillow conveniently in front of her when she was shot.

    Did we see her dead body? Was she buried? Could it be that she was told she MIGHT be shot and to take (okay a stretch) a bullet-proof pillow with her everywhere? Could she have then escaped in the melee that followed the shooting?

    Someone with access to the applicable episodes available, please chime in!

    : ) P[/quote]
    There was a funeral where she and Anna Lucia were burried.

  433. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="199981"][quote comment="199969"][quote comment="199805"]Michael: So we are to believe that he can not convince his son that they should be ecstatic to have gotten off that deserted island, and have been reunited from a kidnapping? His son would be so mad at him, for the nitty gritty details of their escape from that hell hole, that it would drive Mike to suicide?

    I didn’t get an answer as to why Mike couldn’t say, “Mom, (his own mother won’t let him see his son????) we crashed on that plane, we were on an island with some crazy folks, there are other survivors left behind, but I have no way of knowing how to get back there.” If folks are saying well he’d have to tell what he did to get off that island, it’s Mike’s word against a lying Ben, who would probably not be around to go to court anyway, let alone be a trusted witness. Who from the island would testify against Mike for coming back and rescuing them?

    Wouldn’t that be the redemption Mike needed in order to get back his son’s respect? I needed for there to be more of a reason for Mike’s silence about the island upon his return.[/quote]

    Well the thing is that we don’t know what happened between the dory and New York. We don’t know HOW he got to the U.S., what he had to promise to be allowed to got there, who he had to pretend to be, and who is orchestrating everything. There are a lot of unknowns in this respect. It could well be that he isn’t allowed to explain what really happened.

    : ) P[/quote]
    —————

    I think Walt had a stronger connection with not only the island but the people he was there with. And knowing that his father Did such horrible things to get off the island might brake the rocky relationship he had with him .

    And I’m sure ben would have made it clear to Michael not to talk about the island. The threat would be he would come and take walt back. To many unknowns.[/quote]
    Walt never met the talies so he had no connection with Anna Lucia or Libby. Remember, he “appeared” to Shannon just before the talies got there.

  434. LostinSev says:

    I don’t know how my neighbor came up with six yrs. I wondered about that too, in regards to Walt’s age and Clair. I don’t think she meant that the Losties become six years younger themselves. I don’t know, I do like listening to how other people interpret the show. We all see it in different ways. I enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts and theories.

  435. Circus Mom says:

    When we first see Michael in the hospital room his moniter looks kind of old fashioned. Libby appears, Michael screams and then a nurse comes in and the moniter looks newer and the other patient looks “dirrerent.” I think the first scene when Libby appeared was Michael dreaming of when he was in the hospital after the car accident. I think Libby was really there on the first hospital visit and that Michael woke up from the “nightmare” when he screamed and we then saw the current Hospital room.
    The shocked look on Michaels face when he shot Libby in the Hatch may have been because he remembered her.

  436. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200110"]When we first see Michael in the hospital room his moniter looks kind of old fashioned. Libby appears, Michael screams and then a nurse comes in and the moniter looks newer and the other patient looks “dirrerent.” I think the first scene when Libby appeared was Michael dreaming of when he was in the hospital after the car accident. I think Libby was really there on the first hospital visit and that Michael woke up from the “nightmare” when he screamed and we then saw the current Hospital room.
    The shocked look on Michaels face when he shot Libby in the Hatch may have been because he remembered her.[/quote]
    Sounds plausible!

  437. Laura G says:

    Okay, finally finished reading all the posts! A few thoughts:

    1. That was Michael’s mom that Ghostbuster visited, but it happened while Michael & Walt were still LOST.

    2. I do think it’s Michael in the coffin, under an alias. If it were Sayid or Sawyer, I think Kate would attend the funeral. Only other possibility is Locke (as far as I can figure), but I doubt he would ever leave the island.

    3. I am thinking the “temple” is more of an ancient site…explains why Alpert knows about it (b/c he is one of the “hostiles”, an original inhabitant of the island).

    4. The only reason I don’t think it was Ben who arranged the shooting (we can NOT be sure they’re dead!) of Danielle and Carl is because he wouldn’t trust anyone to shoot so close to his girl. He really does want to keep her SAFE, and that just seems way too risky.

    5. RE: Michael & Walt, I would add that Walt never wanted to leave the island anyway!!! He told Locke he liked it there, and he was tired of moving around. Of course he wanted to be rescued from the creepy Others, but I’m sure he would have been happy just to return safely to the Lostie’s camp.

    BTW, I really despise Michael now. That is the most selfish thing to do — kill yourself and leave your son an ORPHAN, b/c you feel guilty. Boo-f’n-hoo!

  438. Hurley's sister says:

    [quote comment="200099"]Although I have paid close attention to all of the episodes, this one had me confused about whether or not Ben is Alex’s real father. I felt an odd connection between Rouseau and Ben. Any thoughts?

    [/quote]

    first time poster, avid reader–
    I also felt there was a wierd connection between Ben and Rouseau during that scene. My intuition says that Rouseau knows more than she is letting on. What she would know escapes me, but it seems she knows the island better than many currently on it and it is unlikely that she wouldnt already have come across the temple in the past. Maybe she so easily agreed they should go there because shes somehow in the know about what is at stake, or knows what the temple has to offer. I wonder how long before we get an episode focusing on Rouseau with FBs.

    Also, the way she looked at Ben was as if she deeply cared for him. Maybe she felt he was sacrificing his own life for her, Alex and Karl, but regardless it was bizarre that she did not disagree with Ben when he called Alex “his daughter.” I feel like there is something between Ben and Rouseau that goes beyond–I steal your baby, you come back and find her, I continue to tell her shes mine right in front of you.
    Thoughts?

  439. LostFan says:

    For those of you who didn’t catch… Jin didn’t actually die, If you look at the date of death on his grave it is the same day as the crash. So he probably didn’t die, he’s just left on the island and the grave is staged. Sun just came to visit it because it’s the closest thing of him she has.

    I think that Danielle and Carl got shot by the others… Like as if Ben staged the whole thing about Carl, Danielle, and Alex to go to the Tempest, and have his people shoot down Carl and Alex. We know that he never liked Carl and he probably wants Danielle gone because he doesn’t want Alex taken away from him and he probably doesn’t want to share her… which is probably why she didn’t get shot.

  440. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="200108"]I think Walt had a stronger connection with not only the island but the people he was there with. And knowing that his father Did such horrible things to get off the island might brake the rocky relationship he had with him .[/quote]

    Plus, we don’t know what the Others told Walt about his dad after they kidnapped him. His relationship with Michael was tenuous and short-lived, he might be quite easily swayed. It may be that Michael TOLD Walt, “I TRIED to rescue you! I even KILLED two people in order to see you,” not realizing that it would further alienate him.

    : ) P

  441. Lins says:

    Just re-watched and noticed a few things:

    1. Alex doesn’t look pregnant. The camera was focusing on Carl’s hand on her back and Ben looked a little upset about that.

    2. I think Danielle gave Ben weird looks because he admitted she was Alex’s mother and talked about how she would protect her…I think it surprised her to hear him talk like that.

    3. The creepy part was, at the end of that scene…Ben almost has an evil little smile on his face like he knows what’s going to happen to Danielle and Carl.

  442. Hans says:

    WOooooooo GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been going through season 2 finale ONCE AGAON and I FOUND A REMARKABLE ELEMENT!!!!!!!!

    Hate to even think but, I think…

    Penny wildmore was instrumental in getting the island coordinates to her dad, charles widmore.

    with her will or without.

    remember? when the season 2 ended, the scientists in Antarctica found an electromagnetic incident and reported to our penny?

    so i hate to wonder, but can she become part of all of this too?

    i mean it explains, why then soon afterwards:-

    1) they find the plane wreck and a freighter is sent to find the island!!!!!!! – cuz widmore got the coordinates from that scientists/or penny who analyzed and noted the incident in Antarctica and staged the scne and got ready to infiltrate into the island on the new found information…

    what do you guys think about it?

    And very good points circus mom on micheal :)

  443. reilly says:

    [quote comment="199800"]I definitely think Ben had Rousseau and Carl killed. That was a sharpshooter taking them out. I think the scene on the freighter was put there on purpose to show they were NOT good shots. They had a machine gun with dozens of bullets flying and still only hit the one clay pigeon. Plus, they had no need to kill Rousseau and Carl, they could have taken all three. Only Ben would have something to gain (Alex) by killing those two.

    And Walt in his room looked like a short Walt again, although that could have just been how it looked with a high windowsill.

    The car Michael drove into the barrier was a Plymouth Volare (A Dodge Aspen is possible, they are exactly the same except for the logos, which I think were Plymouth), about a ’76. I had one for a few years in the 80’s.

    Why did Ben not have any scars or injuries or bruises when he was in his jammies??? Hasn’t he been getting beat up pretty regularly for some time now??[/quote]
    I agree that Ben set them Rousseau and Karl up so that he could eliminate those between him and Alex, and to make sure Alex didn’t get pregnant on the island and die.

    Ben doesn’t look beat up because it’s a flashback – his conversation with Michael happened before Ben was captured, before he destroyed the ship’s radio room, before the freighter people arrived on the island. We see it because Michael is telling Sayid and Desmond how he came to be on the ship and that’s part of the story.

  444. Hermy says:

    From: Laura G

    “Okay, finally finished reading all the posts! A few thoughts:

    1. That was Michael’s mom that Ghostbuster visited, but it happened while Michael & Walt were still LOST.”

    ***Laura-

    Thanks for bringing this up – I too was trying to figure this out. At first, I thought you were right – mostly cause I didn’t want Walt to kill himself! But, remember Walt lived in Australia, not with his grandma, so… I’m not totally sure how ghost work :) but I think the implication was that Miles went to Walt’s (or whoever) bedroom to his little chatting. Which would mean, present day.

    BUT, here’s the thing. Michael sees Walt in the window. Michael tries to kill himself, meets Mr. Friendly, goes to Fiji, meets Miles, travels with Miles to almost the island, Miles helicopters away, holds a grenade in his mouth for about a month and then is relieved of this duty in order to go back to being a smart alec again.

    SO, if Walt killed himself (or got killed) does that mean he did it between the time Michael saw him in the window and when he boarded ship to Fiji?

    Does that possibly fit with Whisper Walt on the island?

    I didn’t want Walt to die – maybe it’s not really Walt in the pictures, but one of his cousins?

    *sigh*

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?

  445. Pistols says:

    [quote comment="199497"][quote comment="199495"][quote comment="199492"]The preview at the end of the episode said that all of the oceanic six have been revealed and showed images of all the obvious ones plus of aaron. Are we to now know for sure that aaron is part of the oceanic six?[/quote]
    Sure looks like it! I admit I wasn’t a follower of that theory, and it looks like I was wrong, that Aaron is an O6er afterall.[/quote]

    Alot of us were wrong. Me big time.[/quote]

    Although after this episode the creators did say that they don’t have anything to do with the way that ABC advertises…..they showed Aaron, but never clarified specifically.

  446. skweez says:

    [quote comment="200064"]Someone else has mentioned this theory about Alex maybe being pregnant- I dont think she looked pregnant but the way they filmed the scene of her and Carl playing with Aaron, Alex had her arm in front of her belly – sort of made it seem like she was. She definitely didn’t look pregnant when she put her hands in the air at the end and said she was Ben’s daughter. I think patchy is the shooter, by the way.[/quote]

    Read post 136…

  447. LostEver says:

    [quote comment="200129"]WOooooooo GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been going through season 2 finale ONCE AGAON and I FOUND A REMARKABLE ELEMENT!!!!!!!!

    Hate to even think but, I think…

    Penny wildmore was instrumental in getting the island coordinates to her dad, charles widmore.

    with her will or without.

    remember? when the season 2 ended, the scientists in Antarctica found an electromagnetic incident and reported to our penny?

    so i hate to wonder, but can she become part of all of this too?

    i mean it explains, why then soon afterwards:-

    1) they find the plane wreck and a freighter is sent to find the island!!!!!!! – cuz widmore got the coordinates from that scientists/or penny who analyzed and noted the incident in Antarctica and staged the scne and got ready to infiltrate into the island on the new found information…

    what do you guys think about it?

    And very good points circus mom on micheal :)[/quote]

    Great Point out hans..

    I was thinking about how did widmore suddenly arrived at the location of the island too..

    I think your argument got some substance in it…

    But the problem is, is pennilope helping Desmond for real or she wants to find the island/ help dad find the island too?

    But surely, i remember her face vaguely in the season 2 finale, with the weird music in the last shot..
    it sure looked bit creepy.

    Good revelation Hans!

  448. I think i agree with Lostever and Hans..

    Charles widmore suddenly sending a freighter to the island and the swan hatch blast got a connection.

    it has to be.

    and why did penny was the one those scientists reported to?

    Look, charles widmore was looking for this island and had many attempts to infiltrate it..
    henry gale for one.

    but he never successfully got through.

    but this time he sends a whole army with weapond trained mercenaries. so he got those coordinates alright!

    so either the event shoudl be :

    plane crash or hatch blown incident of swan station.

    scientist got exact location at that incident.
    on the computer screen.
    so who did scientists report to- penny widmore.

    so guys i think there is a shady coincidence now isnt it?

    think you are onto something.

  449. 345lostie says:

    Charles widmore and the [quote comment="200142"][quote comment="200129"]WOooooooo GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been going through season 2 finale ONCE AGAON and I FOUND A REMARKABLE ELEMENT!!!!!!!!

    Hate to even think but, I think…

    Penny wildmore was instrumental in getting the island coordinates to her dad, charles widmore.
    with her will or without.

    remember? when the season 2 ended, the scientists in Antarctica found an electromagnetic incident and reported to our penny?

    so i hate to wonder, but can she become part of all of this too?

    i mean it explains, why then soon afterwards:-

    1) they find the plane wreck and a freighter is sent to find the island!!!!!!! – cuz widmore got the coordinates from that scientists/or penny who analyzed and noted the incident in Antarctica and staged the scne and got ready to infiltrate into the island on the new found information…

    what do you guys think about it?

    And very good points circus mom on micheal :)[/quote]

    Great Point out hans..

    I was thinking about how did widmore suddenly arrived at the location of the island too..

    I think your argument got some substance in it…

    But the problem is, is pennilope helping Desmond for real or she wants to find the island/ help dad find the island too?

    But surely, i remember her face vaguely in the season 2 finale, with the weird music in the last shot..
    it sure looked bit creepy.

    Good revelation Hans![/quote]

    Ooooohh Charles widmore and his coordinates..

    Yeah.. sounds like a great theory.

    I always wondered why dod they show that last 2 minute clip and of the season 2. now it explains a lot..

    nice one guys.

    But I have a another one.

    Maybe charles put them scientists on Antarctica, and they are secretly working for penny maybe?

    aftrall i don’t want to think penny is evil as well.

    But surely thats a great one to ponder on..!!!

    “Where did widmore get coordinates finally to send a freighter. but of course from his Daughter!!!!!”

    Stay Lost!

  450. Hate_LocKe_GuTs says:

    [quote comment="200129"]WOooooooo GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been going through season 2 finale ONCE AGAON and I FOUND A REMARKABLE ELEMENT!!!!!!!!

    Hate to even think but, I think…

    Penny wildmore was instrumental in getting the island coordinates to her dad, charles widmore.

    with her will or without.

    remember? when the season 2 ended, the scientists in Antarctica found an electromagnetic incident and reported to our penny?

    so i hate to wonder, but can she become part of all of this too?

    i mean it explains, why then soon afterwards:-

    1) they find the plane wreck and a freighter is sent to find the island!!!!!!! – cuz widmore got the coordinates from that scientists/or penny who analyzed and noted the incident in Antarctica and staged the scne and got ready to infiltrate into the island on the new found information…

    what do you guys think about it?

    And very good points circus mom on micheal :)[/quote]

    Okay. Nice One.

    I like this theory.
    It fits th timelines and the Mythology!!!!!

    Evil father and Semi- Evil Daughter!!!

    Total Lost formula!!!!!!!!!!

    Adiozz…

  451. Laura G says:

    I am assuming that photos in Michael’s mom’s house when she hires Ghostbuster to come over are of Michael as a child, not Walt. She may or may not have ever met Walt before his Mom took him to live with her.

    Michael probably told his mom that he was going to Australia and would be bringing Walt back with him, so she knew he was on the Oceanic flight & assumed he & Walt had died.

    When Miles did his Ghostbusting thing, he may have learned something about what had actually happened to the Oceanic flight, which may have led to his getting on the freighter.

  452. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="200148"]I am assuming that photos in Michael’s mom’s house when she hires Ghostbuster to come over are of Michael as a child, not Walt. She may or may not have ever met Walt before his Mom took him to live with her.

    Michael probably told his mom that he was going to Australia and would be bringing Walt back with him, so she knew he was on the Oceanic flight & assumed he & Walt had died.

    When Miles did his Ghostbusting thing, he may have learned something about what had actually happened to the Oceanic flight, which may have led to his getting on the freighter.[/quote]

    miles ghost busting = LA
    Mike’s mom = NY

    = not the same

  453. Freckles says:

    Just curious…does Charles Widmore have an English accent?

  454. Deangoodes says:

    I don’t believe Penny is evil. Even if she did give the coordinates to her dad, I doubt she knows (or thinks) he is going to do something terrible. Penny is truly in love with Desmond and would in no way put him in danger.

    The hospital room: I have watched and re-watched that scene. It certainly looks like the same guy in the bed next to Michael. And there are two monitors in Michael’s room. If you look closely, you can see them both in both scenes. They are the same, one is monitoring is heartbeat, etc….The other is dispersing his medicine.

  455. Sim says:

    GOOD ONE.

  456. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200129"]WOooooooo GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been going through season 2 finale ONCE AGAON and I FOUND A REMARKABLE ELEMENT!!!!!!!!

    Hate to even think but, I think…

    Penny wildmore was instrumental in getting the island coordinates to her dad, charles widmore.

    with her will or without.

    remember? when the season 2 ended, the scientists in Antarctica found an electromagnetic incident and reported to our penny?

    so i hate to wonder, but can she become part of all of this too?

    i mean it explains, why then soon afterwards:-

    1) they find the plane wreck and a freighter is sent to find the island!!!!!!! – cuz widmore got the coordinates from that scientists/or penny who analyzed and noted the incident in Antarctica and staged the scne and got ready to infiltrate into the island on the new found information…

    what do you guys think about it?

    And very good points circus mom on micheal :)[/quote]
    Okay, now I’m gonna be snoddy. How many times have I said that? Here for example from the Ji Yeon thread:
    Hammer
    Comment 643, posted 2 days, 20 hours ago – Quote and reply
    lost4ever wrote:

    You are right…we don’t know how long the freighter has been there. I am guessing after the hatch exploded they were sent there. Remember the ending seen of Season 2? The sonar revealed the island location temporarily and Penny Widmore was telephoned.

    My take, Widmore knew that Penny was looking for Des. He was spying on her efforts in addition to his own efforts to find the island. The hatch blows, Penny’s folks get a bearing, hence Widmore gets a bearing and dispatches the freighter and here we are…

  457. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200218"]I don’t believe Penny is evil. Even if she did give the coordinates to her dad, I doubt she knows (or thinks) he is going to do something terrible. Penny is truly in love with Desmond and would in no way put him in danger.

    The hospital room: I have watched and re-watched that scene. It certainly looks like the same guy in the bed next to Michael. And there are two monitors in Michael’s room. If you look closely, you can see them both in both scenes. They are the same, one is monitoring is heartbeat, etc….The other is dispersing his medicine.[/quote]
    Thanks. That would make sense.

  458. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200148"]I am assuming that photos in Michael’s mom’s house when she hires Ghostbuster to come over are of Michael as a child, not Walt. She may or may not have ever met Walt before his Mom took him to live with her.

    Michael probably told his mom that he was going to Australia and would be bringing Walt back with him, so she knew he was on the Oceanic flight & assumed he & Walt had died.

    When Miles did his Ghostbusting thing, he may have learned something about what had actually happened to the Oceanic flight, which may have led to his getting on the freighter.[/quote]
    I’m not sure yet, but it seems to me that Micheals mom was not the lady Miles performed for. Faces are very different, but I haven’t done the research to if they are different actresses.

  459. Michael says:

    [quote comment="200152"]Just curious…does Charles Widmore have an English accent?[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++
    I don’t remember him having one. Which is weird? Because everyone one else who has an accent is very noticeable. You would think he does. But i can’t remember him having one.

  460. Michael says:

    [quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    “Okay, finally finished reading all the posts! A few thoughts:

    1. That was Michael’s mom that Ghostbuster visited, but it happened while Michael & Walt were still LOST.”

    ***Laura-

    Thanks for bringing this up – I too was trying to figure this out. At first, I thought you were right – mostly cause I didn’t want Walt to kill himself! But, remember Walt lived in Australia, not with his grandma, so… I’m not totally sure how ghost work :) but I think the implication was that Miles went to Walt’s (or whoever) bedroom to his little chatting. Which would mean, present day.

    BUT, here’s the thing. Michael sees Walt in the window. Michael tries to kill himself, meets Mr. Friendly, goes to Fiji, meets Miles, travels with Miles to almost the island, Miles helicopters away, holds a grenade in his mouth for about a month and then is relieved of this duty in order to go back to being a smart alec again.

    SO, if Walt killed himself (or got killed) does that mean he did it between the time Michael saw him in the window and when he boarded ship to Fiji?

    Does that possibly fit with Whisper Walt on the island?

    I didn’t want Walt to die – maybe it’s not really Walt in the pictures, but one of his cousins?

    *sigh*

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++
    I think if Michael can not kill him self then walt wouldn’t be able as well.

  461. Michael says:

    [quote comment="200120"][quote comment="200108"]I think Walt had a stronger connection with not only the island but the people he was there with. And knowing that his father Did such horrible things to get off the island might brake the rocky relationship he had with him .[/quote]

    Plus, we don’t know what the Others told Walt about his dad after they kidnapped him. His relationship with Michael was tenuous and short-lived, he might be quite easily swayed. It may be that Michael TOLD Walt, “I TRIED to rescue you! I even KILLED two people in order to see you,” not realizing that it would further alienate him.

    : ) P[/quote]

    That sounds like something Michael would do. What exactly did the others do with Walt? They gave him a bunch of test. And when Ben gave Walt back he said something like “He’s more that we bargained for” or “more than we can handle”.

  462. CAG says:

    Did anyone notice how surprised Ben was when he learned that Michael had activated the bomb? Was he surprised that Michael would actually do it, or that it didn’t blow everyone up? It could be that the “innocent people” speach was Ben covering up his surprise, making it look like he planned it all. He doesn’t seem to care about collateral damage, he gassed all the Dharmites, was instrumental in the death of goodwin, and maybe now Carl and Alex’s mom. Ben’s not a good guy, I think Hurley is the only good guy .. well, maybe Claire too.

  463. CAG says:

    Oh, and another observation, Apperantly we now have proof that Ben was lying about the island comms being out after the hatch blew, since he called Michael on the boat. Did anyone recognise the radio room Ben was in? Was it the one in the looking glass?

  464. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="200313"]Did anyone notice how surprised Ben was when he learned that Michael had activated the bomb? Was he surprised that Michael would actually do it, or that it didn’t blow everyone up? It could be that the “innocent people” speach was Ben covering up his surprise, making it look like he planned it all. He doesn’t seem to care about collateral damage, he gassed all the Dharmites, was instrumental in the death of goodwin, and maybe now Carl and Alex’s mom. Ben’s not a good guy, I think Hurley is the only good guy .. well, maybe Claire too.[/quote]
    I did notice that Ben looked a little surprised.Could it be because he didn’t think Michael would actually do it? It could have been a test to see just how far Michael would go for him and if he was willing to kill everyone on the ship, along with himself, he would be willing to do ANYTHING that was asked of him.

  465. Deangoodes says:

    CAG – It looked like Ben was in his secret room in his house at the barracks.

  466. Michael says:

    [quote comment="200338"][quote comment="200313"]Did anyone notice how surprised Ben was when he learned that Michael had activated the bomb? Was he surprised that Michael would actually do it, or that it didn’t blow everyone up? It could be that the “innocent people” speach was Ben covering up his surprise, making it look like he planned it all. He doesn’t seem to care about collateral damage, he gassed all the Dharmites, was instrumental in the death of goodwin, and maybe now Carl and Alex’s mom. Ben’s not a good guy, I think Hurley is the only good guy .. well, maybe Claire too.[/quote]
    I did notice that Ben looked a little surprised.Could it be because he didn’t think Michael would actually do it? It could have been a test to see just how far Michael would go for him and if he was willing to kill everyone on the ship, along with himself, he would be willing to do ANYTHING that was asked of him.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    He was put on that boat to kill everyone. That’s what tom told him. They gave him a bomb to do. How would tom or Ben know that the first time Michael goes to blow up would be the wrong time? So more questions. Is the Bomb real? If so, is there a different code he needs? If fake, why have him on the boat? Well that’s obvious. Ben wants to know the names of everyone on the boat. Is that the really reason Michael was sent to the boat. Just to be an informant?

  467. CAG says:

    Maybe there’s some people on the boat that Jacob deems “listworthy”

  468. CAG says:

    [quote comment="200342"]CAG – It looked like Ben was in his secret room in his house at the barracks.[/quote]

    So, that’s THREE radio rooms on the island that we know of … I wonder if the rest of the “others” know about Ben’s secret radio room

  469. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200347"][quote comment="200342"]CAG – It looked like Ben was in his secret room in his house at the barracks.[/quote]

    So, that’s THREE radio rooms on the island that we know of … I wonder if the rest of the “others” know about Ben’s secret radio room[/quote]
    ****************

    The most honest thing that Ben ever said was “I always have a plan”. I never believed that ALL the communications were really down. So this time it is HAMM radio. I think he is a dangerous very evil genious and I have to respect that (while I am so glad he lives no where around here!) Probably the Tempest station also has communications systems.

  470. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200345"][quote comment="200338"][quote comment="200313"]Did anyone notice how surprised Ben was when he learned that Michael had activated the bomb? Was he surprised that Michael would actually do it, or that it didn’t blow everyone up? It could be that the “innocent people” speach was Ben covering up his surprise, making it look like he planned it all. He doesn’t seem to care about collateral damage, he gassed all the Dharmites, was instrumental in the death of goodwin, and maybe now Carl and Alex’s mom. Ben’s not a good guy, I think Hurley is the only good guy .. well, maybe Claire too.[/quote]
    I did notice that Ben looked a little surprised.Could it be because he didn’t think Michael would actually do it? It could have been a test to see just how far Michael would go for him and if he was willing to kill everyone on the ship, along with himself, he would be willing to do ANYTHING that was asked of him.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    He was put on that boat to kill everyone. That’s what tom told him. They gave him a bomb to do. How would tom or Ben know that the first time Michael goes to blow up would be the wrong time? So more questions. Is the Bomb real? If so, is there a different code he needs? If fake, why have him on the boat? Well that’s obvious. Ben wants to know the names of everyone on the boat. Is that the really reason Michael was sent to the boat. Just to be an informant?[/quote]
    ******************

    I have been thinking that Ben’s plan could all along have been for Sayiid to be his man. In that case, Michael is just a means to an end, to ultimately get Sayiid on board to do Bens’ dirty work. (That’s on board the plan, not the boat. We will have to wait to see how this plays out) Michael is too weak and conflicted to do more than be an informant, though if the bomb had been real, that would have been the end of the boat. Therefore, Ben doesn’t WANT them all dead. He has a different plan. Again, evil genious.

  471. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200338"][quote comment="200313"]Did anyone notice how surprised Ben was when he learned that Michael had activated the bomb? Was he surprised that Michael would actually do it, or that it didn’t blow everyone up? It could be that the “innocent people” speach was Ben covering up his surprise, making it look like he planned it all. He doesn’t seem to care about collateral damage, he gassed all the Dharmites, was instrumental in the death of goodwin, and maybe now Carl and Alex’s mom. Ben’s not a good guy, I think Hurley is the only good guy .. well, maybe Claire too.[/quote]
    I did notice that Ben looked a little surprised.Could it be because he didn’t think Michael would actually do it? It could have been a test to see just how far Michael would go for him and if he was willing to kill everyone on the ship, along with himself, he would be willing to do ANYTHING that was asked of him.[/quote]
    **********************

    I think very little actually surprises Ben. He is just too good at mind games. It served his purpose for him to SOUND/SEEM surprised for Michael’s benefit, but his plan is right on schedule. I agree with Trix that it could well have been a test for Michael.

  472. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200114"]Okay, finally finished reading all the posts! A few thoughts:

    1. That was Michael’s mom that Ghostbuster visited, but it happened while Michael & Walt were still LOST.

    2. I do think it’s Michael in the coffin, under an alias. If it were Sayid or Sawyer, I think Kate would attend the funeral. Only other possibility is Locke (as far as I can figure), but I doubt he would ever leave the island.

    3. I am thinking the “temple” is more of an ancient site…explains why Alpert knows about it (b/c he is one of the “hostiles”, an original inhabitant of the island).

    4. The only reason I don’t think it was Ben who arranged the shooting (we can NOT be sure they’re dead!) of Danielle and Carl is because he wouldn’t trust anyone to shoot so close to his girl. He really does want to keep her SAFE, and that just seems way too risky.

    5. RE: Michael & Walt, I would add that Walt never wanted to leave the island anyway!!! He told Locke he liked it there, and he was tired of moving around. Of course he wanted to be rescued from the creepy Others, but I’m sure he would have been happy just to return safely to the Lostie’s camp.

    BTW, I really despise Michael now. That is the most selfish thing to do — kill yourself and leave your son an ORPHAN, b/c you feel guilty. Boo-f’n-hoo![/quote]
    Miles went to a house in California and Michaels mom lives in New York. The houses and the mothers looked different. Michael was not a young drug dealer. Michael saw the news about the plane being found while in New York. Miles went to the house in LA the day the news broke. I am however now wondering who’s house it was in LA. Perhaps one of the drug dealers who Killed Yemi?
    I think the temple is connected to Dharma somehow. The maps show it in a Dharma sign.

  473. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    “Okay, finally finished reading all the posts! A few thoughts:

    1. That was Michael’s mom that Ghostbuster visited, but it happened while Michael & Walt were still LOST.”

    ***Laura-

    Thanks for bringing this up – I too was trying to figure this out. At first, I thought you were right – mostly cause I didn’t want Walt to kill himself! But, remember Walt lived in Australia, not with his grandma, so… I’m not totally sure how ghost work :) but I think the implication was that Miles went to Walt’s (or whoever) bedroom to his little chatting. Which would mean, present day.

    BUT, here’s the thing. Michael sees Walt in the window. Michael tries to kill himself, meets Mr. Friendly, goes to Fiji, meets Miles, travels with Miles to almost the island, Miles helicopters away, holds a grenade in his mouth for about a month and then is relieved of this duty in order to go back to being a smart alec again.

    SO, if Walt killed himself (or got killed) does that mean he did it between the time Michael saw him in the window and when he boarded ship to Fiji?

    Does that possibly fit with Whisper Walt on the island?

    I didn’t want Walt to die – maybe it’s not really Walt in the pictures, but one of his cousins?

    *sigh*

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?[/quote]
    I wonder if Danielle had Charlottes vest on?

  474. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200354"][quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?[/quote]
    I wonder if Danielle had Charlottes vest on?[/quote]
    ***************

    I hope Danielle didn’t die, but I am afraid she did. She didn’t move or groan or in any way ACT like she is alive.

  475. Lynne says:

    [quote comment="200360"][quote comment="200354"][quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?[/quote]
    I wonder if Danielle had Charlottes vest on?[/quote]
    ***************

    I hope Danielle didn’t die, but I am afraid she did. She didn’t move or groan or in any way ACT like she is alive.[/quote]
    *********************************
    Then again, Locke looked pretty dead and gone when Ben shot him and he fell into the body pit…

    Hopefully someone can help me with this:
    When Tom was showing Micheal the evidence that Widmore was “bad” he showed him empty graves from Thailand that were dug up to fill the fake plane. Did anyone catch how on earth that was pulled off??

  476. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="200223"][quote comment="200129"]WOooooooo GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been going through season 2 finale ONCE AGAON and I FOUND A REMARKABLE ELEMENT!!!!!!!!

    Hate to even think but, I think…

    Penny wildmore was instrumental in getting the island coordinates to her dad, charles widmore.

    with her will or without.

    remember? when the season 2 ended, the scientists in Antarctica found an electromagnetic incident and reported to our penny?

    so i hate to wonder, but can she become part of all of this too?

    i mean it explains, why then soon afterwards:-

    1) they find the plane wreck and a freighter is sent to find the island!!!!!!! – cuz widmore got the coordinates from that scientists/or penny who analyzed and noted the incident in Antarctica and staged the scne and got ready to infiltrate into the island on the new found information…

    what do you guys think about it?

    And very good points circus mom on micheal :)[/quote]
    Okay, now I’m gonna be snoddy. How many times have I said that? Here for example from the Ji Yeon thread:
    Hammer
    Comment 643, posted 2 days, 20 hours ago – Quote and reply
    lost4ever wrote:

    You are right…we don’t know how long the freighter has been there. I am guessing after the hatch exploded they were sent there. Remember the ending seen of Season 2? The sonar revealed the island location temporarily and Penny Widmore was telephoned.

    My take, Widmore knew that Penny was looking for Des. He was spying on her efforts in addition to his own efforts to find the island. The hatch blows, Penny’s folks get a bearing, hence Widmore gets a bearing and dispatches the freighter and here we are…[/quote]
    ———-
    Be snoddy my man.

  477. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="200067"]If he thinks his “daughter” Alex is pregnant, he maybe wants to get her off the island to save her life.?? Maybe the Temple is a port of some sort. Also, do we know whether or not all of the Others are still alive? Safe??[/quote]
    Maybe when we see Ben in Sayid’s FF, he is off the island for another purpose also. Like having his “grandson” born.

  478. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="200115"][quote comment="200099"]Although I have paid close attention to all of the episodes, this one had me confused about whether or not Ben is Alex’s real father. I felt an odd connection between Rouseau and Ben. Any thoughts?

    [/quote]

    first time poster, avid reader–
    I also felt there was a wierd connection between Ben and Rouseau during that scene. My intuition says that Rouseau knows more than she is letting on. What she would know escapes me, but it seems she knows the island better than many currently on it and it is unlikely that she wouldnt already have come across the temple in the past. Maybe she so easily agreed they should go there because shes somehow in the know about what is at stake, or knows what the temple has to offer. I wonder how long before we get an episode focusing on Rouseau with FBs.

    Also, the way she looked at Ben was as if she deeply cared for him. Maybe she felt he was sacrificing his own life for her, Alex and Karl, but regardless it was bizarre that she did not disagree with Ben when he called Alex “his daughter.” I feel like there is something between Ben and Rouseau that goes beyond–I steal your baby, you come back and find her, I continue to tell her shes mine right in front of you.
    Thoughts?[/quote]
    ———————
    I brought this question up the other day, Is Alex REALLY Ben’s daughter? If so, did he and Rousseaou meet off the island, we have seen him off the island in Sayid’s FF. Maybe they hooked up and bam 8 months later her research vessel crashes on the island. Therefore Alex really is Ben’s daughter. Is that too far-fetched?
    IMO Danielle is dead. The bullet-proof vest gag is worn out. She will only live on in FB. Maybe hers or Bens.

  479. Cindy says:

    I think Sayid really must trust the freighter captain- obviously more than Michael/Ben. I am still surprised at how quick he was to turn him over to the captain.

    As for Miles’ comment, about Kevin not being Michael’s real name- I just thought it was odd because Miles talks to dead people and Michael ain’t dead. Unless some ghost clued him in, maybe Libby.

  480. Cindy says:

    [quote comment="200362"][quote comment="200360"][quote comment="200354"][quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?[/quote]
    I wonder if Danielle had Charlottes vest on?[/quote]
    ***************

    I hope Danielle didn’t die, but I am afraid she did. She didn’t move or groan or in any way ACT like she is alive.[/quote]
    *********************************
    Then again, Locke looked pretty dead and gone when Ben shot him and he fell into the body pit…

    Hopefully someone can help me with this:
    When Tom was showing Micheal the evidence that Widmore was “bad” he showed him empty graves from Thailand that were dug up to fill the fake plane. Did anyone catch how on earth that was pulled off??[/quote]

    ———–
    I want to know how Widmore got the black box if it should be with the real 815, i.e., on the island.

  481. yvette says:

    [quote comment="199627"]After having watched every episode of “Lost” and following closely, I was sickened to have to see the writer’s throw in a perverted gay scene with Tom. Wasn’t the inuendo in an earlier episode enough? My family and I are done watching it… don’t care anymore… Call it jumping the shark, but it’s really crossing the line of decency and good taste. Too bad, I thought they had a good thing going[/quote]

    With all due respect, I believe that comment you made makes me not want to read this blog. I am a heterosexual female who thinks there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and is no worse than seeing a scantily clad scene which features a male and a female. Come on your kids should be educated on the subject not taught to discriminate. You have family members Im sure that are gay. I seriously doubt LOST creators or fans alike will miss you as a fan.

  482. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200374"][quote comment="200362"][quote comment="200360"][quote comment="200354"][quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?[/quote]
    I wonder if Danielle had Charlottes vest on?[/quote]
    ***************

    I hope Danielle didn’t die, but I am afraid she did. She didn’t move or groan or in any way ACT like she is alive.[/quote]
    *********************************
    Then again, Locke looked pretty dead and gone when Ben shot him and he fell into the body pit…

    Hopefully someone can help me with this:
    When Tom was showing Micheal the evidence that Widmore was “bad” he showed him empty graves from Thailand that were dug up to fill the fake plane. Did anyone catch how on earth that was pulled off??[/quote]

    ———–
    I want to know how Widmore got the black box if it should be with the real 815, i.e., on the island.[/quote]
    ****************8

    It was the black box from the faux plane.

  483. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200373"]I think Sayid really must trust the freighter captain- obviously more than Michael/Ben.

    I am still surprised at how quick he was to turn him over to the captain.

    As for Miles’ comment, about Kevin not being Michael’s real name- I just thought it was odd because Miles talks to dead people and Michael ain’t dead. Unless some ghost clued him in, maybe Libby.[/quote]
    ***********************

    I think that Sayiid DESPISES Michael. He thinks he is despicable. He killed two unarmed women in a supreme breach of trust. Sayiid has killed too, but in a military setting or in self defense. He can’t relate to Michael AT ALL. Michael also says he is now working for Ben. Sayiid doesn’t trust Ben either. So, when faced with trusting Michael or trusting the captain, it was a no brainer for him. From his perspective, his action wasn’t surprising at all.

  484. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200381"][quote comment="200374"][quote comment="200362"][quote comment="200360"][quote comment="200354"][quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    A final thought – I think Danielle knew she was about to be shot at – my only hope is that, while she’s probably willing to give her life for Alex, she figured some nifty way to stay alive and fake it.

    Please?[/quote]
    I wonder if Danielle had Charlottes vest on?[/quote]
    ***************

    I hope Danielle didn’t die, but I am afraid she did. She didn’t move or groan or in any way ACT like she is alive.[/quote]
    *********************************
    Then again, Locke looked pretty dead and gone when Ben shot him and he fell into the body pit…

    Hopefully someone can help me with this:
    When Tom was showing Micheal the evidence that Widmore was “bad” he showed him empty graves from Thailand that were dug up to fill the fake plane. Did anyone catch how on earth that was pulled off??[/quote]

    ———–
    I want to know how Widmore got the black box if it should be with the real 815, i.e., on the island.[/quote]
    ****************8

    It was the black box from the faux plane.[/quote]
    I beleive Widmore staged the fake plane. The captain was told that Widmore found the fake plane, got the black box, and then found out that Ben had staged the fake. If it really was the black box from either plane why would Widmore send it on the freighter instead of keeping it with him. The captain said something about how hard it was for Widmore to get the box. He was using it to manipulate the captain and crew. It is probably the black box from the fake plane and was possibly never even sunk with the plane.

  485. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200362"][quote comment="200360"][quote comment="200354"][quote comment="200135"]From: Laura G

    [/quote]

    [/quote]
    *********************************
    Then again, Locke looked pretty dead and gone when Ben shot him and he fell into the body pit…

    Hopefully someone can help me with this:
    When Tom was showing Micheal the evidence that Widmore was “bad” he showed him empty graves from Thailand that were dug up to fill the fake plane. Did anyone catch how on earth that was pulled off??[/quote]

    ************************

    Locke never looked dead. When Ben left him he was “dieing” but not dead. Then he was struggling to reach the gun from the corpse (he was paralysed again) and was going to shoot himself, when Walt showed up. There were no dead Locke scenes.
    Regarding the Thai graves: Both “sides” have blamed the faux plane/bodies on each other. It occurs to me that if it HAD been BEN who did it, HE would also have the info that Tom presented (as from Widmore), so it shouldn’t really be taken as PROOF that Widmore did it.

  486. yvette says:

    also two more things, I know this is going way back but maybe Kate is raising Aaron because thats how it was supposed to be. The psychic told her that someone was going to raise her baby in Los Angeles, isin’t that where Kate is? I think Claire doesn’t get off the island but insists that Kate raise the baby giving it a better life. I mean she was going to give him up originally so its not that much of a stretch.

    Maybe Michael is going crazy cuz Libby is haunting him. That somehow makes him want to kill himself. Otherwise he wouldn’t leave Walt an orphan. Come on how many times do we here Michael say Wallt Waaaalllt, WALT, all the episodes he was in? Annoying. Also I’m so sure Sayid called him out like that! Threw him under the bus instantly makes me think now Ben is bad not Windmore. Only cuz Sayid is like one of those “trustable do no wrongish characters”

    I said Ben is bad but I mean even more evil. Cuz I have been brainwashed by him now to think he is kind of more creepy cool than creepy creepy…

  487. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200382"][quote comment="200373"]I think Sayid really must trust the freighter captain- obviously more than Michael/Ben.

    I am still surprised at how quick he was to turn him over to the captain.

    As for Miles’ comment, about Kevin not being Michael’s real name- I just thought it was odd because Miles talks to dead people and Michael ain’t dead. Unless some ghost clued him in, maybe Libby.[/quote]
    ***********************

    I think that Sayiid DESPISES Michael. He thinks he is despicable. He killed two unarmed women in a supreme breach of trust. Sayiid has killed too, but in a military setting or in self defense. He can’t relate to Michael AT ALL. Michael also says he is now working for Ben. Sayiid doesn’t trust Ben either. So, when faced with trusting Michael or trusting the captain, it was a no brainer for him. From his perspective, his action wasn’t surprising at all.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I agree, all the information to not trust the freighter folk or the captain came from Ben, Locke and Michael (for Ben). Sayid has no reason to trust any of them and he has said the captain had seemed very forthcoming. This, above all, is making me think the captain, or at least Widmore, is far more evil than Ben and that Ben is the good guy of the two.

  488. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200373"]I think Sayid really must trust the freighter captain- obviously more than Michael/Ben.

    I am still surprised at how quick he was to turn him over to the captain.

    As for Miles’ comment, about Kevin not being Michael’s real name- I just thought it was odd because Miles talks to dead people and Michael ain’t dead. Unless some ghost clued him in, maybe Libby.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I think Miles can just tell when someone is lying. Kind of a offshoot of talking to ghosts.

  489. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200385"]also two more things, I know this is going way back but maybe Kate is raising Aaron because thats how it was supposed to be. The psychic told her that someone was going to raise her baby in Los Angeles, isin’t that where Kate is? I think Claire doesn’t get off the island but insists that Kate raise the baby giving it a better life. I mean she was going to give him up originally so its not that much of a stretch.

    Maybe Michael is going crazy cuz Libby is haunting him. That somehow makes him want to kill himself. Otherwise he wouldn’t leave Walt an orphan. Come on how many times do we here Michael say Wallt Waaaalllt, WALT, all the episodes he was in? Annoying. Also I’m so sure Sayid called him out like that! Threw him under the bus instantly makes me think now Ben is bad not Windmore. Only cuz Sayid is like one of those “trustable do no wrongish characters”

    I said Ben is bad but I mean even more evil. Cuz I have been brainwashed by him now to think he is kind of more creepy cool than creepy creepy…[/quote]
    Sayid thinks at this point Ben is worse but we know that later he changes sides which is why I think Widmore is worse.

  490. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200396"][quote comment="200385"]also two more things, I know this is going way back but maybe Kate is raising Aaron because thats how it was supposed to be. The psychic told her that someone was going to raise her baby in Los Angeles, isin’t that where Kate is? I think Claire doesn’t get off the island but insists that Kate raise the baby giving it a better life. I mean she was going to give him up originally so its not that much of a stretch.

    Maybe Michael is going crazy cuz Libby is haunting him. That somehow makes him want to kill himself. Otherwise he wouldn’t leave Walt an orphan. Come on how many times do we here Michael say Wallt Waaaalllt, WALT, all the episodes he was in? Annoying. Also I’m so sure Sayid called him out like that! Threw him under the bus instantly makes me think now Ben is bad not Windmore. Only cuz Sayid is like one of those “trustable do no wrongish characters”

    I said Ben is bad but I mean even more evil. Cuz I have been brainwashed by him now to think he is kind of more creepy cool than creepy creepy…[/quote]
    Sayid thinks at this point Ben is worse but we know that later he changes sides which is why I think Widmore is worse.[/quote]
    *********************

    I believe that after Michael fails in his mission (gets killed maybe?) that Sayiid picks up for him and takes over. I don’t know yet WHO is more evil, Widmore or Linus, but I think it would be better to not trust either one.

  491. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200400"]*********************

    I believe that after Michael fails in his mission (gets killed maybe?) that Sayiid picks up for him and takes over. I don’t know yet WHO is more evil, Widmore or Linus, but I think it would be better to not trust either one.[/quote]
    I agree Rita. Sayid likely takes over when/if he gets back to the island and Ben informs Sayid he just got rid of the man who is helping keep the Losties alive…

  492. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200447"][quote comment="200400"]*********************

    I believe that after Michael fails in his mission (gets killed maybe?) that Sayiid picks up for him and takes over. I don’t know yet WHO is more evil, Widmore or Linus, but I think it would be better to not trust either one.[/quote]
    I agree Rita. Sayid likely takes over when/if he gets back to the island and Ben informs Sayid he just got rid of the man who is helping keep the Losties alive…[/quote]
    *************
    Yes, exactly. It would be the only thing that I could think of that would make Sayid work for Ben. Problem is, once you get started, where does it end? Ben is brilliant at mind games.

  493. Hammer says:

    It ends the same for all pawns in battles between good and evil…when the pawn dies.

  494. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200451"]It ends the same for all pawns in battles between good and evil…when the pawn dies.[/quote]
    Ah, good observation. Why is it that the pawn never knows he’s a pawn?

  495. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200455"][quote comment="200451"]It ends the same for all pawns in battles between good and evil…when the pawn dies.[/quote]
    Ah, good observation. Why is it that the pawn never knows he’s a pawn?[/quote]
    Because the best way to con someone is to make them think it’s their idea.

  496. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200457"][quote comment="200455"][quote comment="200451"]It ends the same for all pawns in battles between good and evil…when the pawn dies.[/quote]
    Ah, good observation. Why is it that the pawn never knows he’s a pawn?[/quote]
    Because the best way to con someone is to make them think it’s their idea.[/quote]
    **************8

    So, in the end, who’s left standing? Probably Widmore AND Ben. Anyone else?

  497. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200457"][quote comment="200455"][quote comment="200451"]It ends the same for all pawns in battles between good and evil…when the pawn dies.[/quote]
    Ah, good observation. Why is it that the pawn never knows he’s a pawn?[/quote]
    Because the best way to con someone is to make them think it’s their idea.[/quote]Well said Ben…I mean Circus Mom. :)

  498. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200459"][quote comment="200457"][quote comment="200455"][quote comment="200451"]It ends the same for all pawns in battles between good and evil…when the pawn dies.[/quote]
    Ah, good observation. Why is it that the pawn never knows he’s a pawn?[/quote]
    Because the best way to con someone is to make them think it’s their idea.[/quote]Well said Ben…I mean Circus Mom. :)[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Rita, Jack is left standing.

    Hammer, I think you meant Sawyer.

  499. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200465"]
    Hammer, I think you meant Sawyer.[/quote]
    Oops, you’re right. Jokes aren’t funny when they are inaccurate(grin).

  500. Hammer says:

    Well, 500 posts later we are running low on substance. This break is gonna suck.
    So, I bring up this quote from Damon since time travel had become more prevelant:
    “DAMON: It’s been in the DNA of the show since the very beginning. Obviously, one thing the flash backs and the flash forwards provide you with is the idea of time travel. You’re bouncing around in time and events from the past are seemingly influencing the present, but it’s not a traditional time travel story until we started talking about what the hatch was there for, and what this electromagnetic energy that the hatch is trying to contain is and what would be the effect of that hatch going away, otherwise known as the purple sky event. And it was sort of those conversations which obviously happened way back in season one when Locke and Boone found the hatch that were the early precursors of time travel. I will say, though, that the first significant event in the show where we were thinking in the back of our minds that this is going to require a story telling element that isn’t traditional narrative, is the discovery of Adam and Eve in the caves.”

    +++++++++++++
    Time to start working on who Adam and Eve are since time travel is a factor and it is possible that they found the bodies of someone who walks among them. Locke brought up to Walt when playing back gammon that it is the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, black vs. white. Is one of the folks a Whidmorian and the other a Benonite?

  501. leah says:

    [quote comment="200101"]Okay! My neighbor told me her theory and I want to run it by you guys…

    She thinks that island time is six years behind real world time. For instance, when the Losties crashed on the island they are now six years behind. The island time was always set back every 180 minutes and it never advanced until the capsule exploded. Now the island is (maybe)starting to catch up with real time.??

    This would explain why Locke is not paralized (his body before his accident) and Rose doesn’t have cancer (before diagnosis). I know this may not make sense, but that is what my neighbor thinks. Please give thoughts and/or disprove this theory. Thanks![/quote]
    \\\\\\\\\\\
    at the begining it was said that every 108 mins
    was equal to one day in the real world.evey time the code was entered another day passed until the hatch imploded.

  502. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200474"] Locke brought up to Walt when playing back gammon that it is the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, black vs. white. [/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    BTW, this was my loose interpretation of Locke was saying.

  503. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200474"]Well, 500 posts later we are running low on substance. This break is gonna suck.
    So, I bring up this quote from Damon since time travel had become more prevelant:
    “DAMON: It’s been in the DNA of the show since the very beginning. Obviously, one thing the flash backs and the flash forwards provide you with is the idea of time travel. You’re bouncing around in time and events from the past are seemingly influencing the present, but it’s not a traditional time travel story until we started talking about what the hatch was there for, and what this electromagnetic energy that the hatch is trying to contain is and what would be the effect of that hatch going away, otherwise known as the purple sky event. And it was sort of those conversations which obviously happened way back in season one when Locke and Boone found the hatch that were the early precursors of time travel. I will say, though, that the first significant event in the show where we were thinking in the back of our minds that this is going to require a story telling element that isn’t traditional narrative, is the discovery of Adam and Eve in the caves.”

    +++++++++++++
    Time to start working on who Adam and Eve are since time travel is a factor and it is possible that they found the bodies of someone who walks among them. Locke brought up to Walt when playing back gammon that it is the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, black vs. white. Is one of the folks a Whidmorian and the other a Benonite?[/quote]

    Just to get the ball rolling here are some possibilities. I only picked those that are alive now. Some I have guesses on, some not. Two of the names got lost in the wholes in my brain.

    Jack and Kate No Because of Aaron
    Sawyer and Kate No Because of Aaron
    Claire No
    Jin No
    Locke No
    Hurley No
    Sayid and ____ Probably not
    Michael No (maiby coffin)
    Hurley Probably not
    Alex
    Desmond and Penny Maiby
    Walt
    Emma and _____
    Cindy
    Richard
    Sun Probably not because of Ji
    Aaron and Ji Possibly
    Bernard and Rose
    Charlotte
    Daniel
    Miles
    Ben and Juliette
    Jack and Juliette

  504. Deangoodes says:

    Why does anybody think the black box from the fake plane is important? It has been determined that the fake 815 plane was bought by Widmore(according to Tom), painted to look like an Oceanic plane, filled with dead bodies, and then hauled to the Indian Ocean and dropped in to the bottom of the Ocean. There wouldn’t be any info on the black box from that plane.

  505. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200482"]Why does anybody think the black box from the fake plane is important? It has been determined that the fake 815 plane was bought by Widmore(according to Tom), painted to look like an Oceanic plane, filled with dead bodies, and then hauled to the Indian Ocean and dropped in to the bottom of the Ocean. There wouldn’t be any info on the black box from that plane.[/quote]
    Agreed. Even if it were actually Ben doing, still nothing on the box.

  506. Deangoodes says:

    If whoever put the plane in the ocean wanted it to be found, wouldn’t they load the black box with the information that would make it look like it had crashed; and either left the black box with the plane(hoping someone would retrieve it and play it) or make it public themselves to prove that was the real 815 down there so there would be no more searching for it???

  507. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200478"][quote comment="200101"]Okay! My neighbor told me her theory and I want to run it by you guys…

    She thinks that island time is six years behind real world time. For instance, when the Losties crashed on the island they are now six years behind. The island time was always set back every 180 minutes and it never advanced until the capsule exploded. Now the island is (maybe)starting to catch up with real time.??

    This would explain why Locke is not paralized (his body before his accident) and Rose doesn’t have cancer (before diagnosis). I know this may not make sense, but that is what my neighbor thinks. Please give thoughts and/or disprove this theory. Thanks![/quote]
    \\\\\\\\\\\
    at the begining it was said that every 108 mins
    was equal to one day in the real world.evey time the code was entered another day passed until the hatch imploded.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++
    What? Who said this? At the begining of what?Is it a theory or from the show. If from the show what epi, I want to re-watch.

    Ok, here is the math on this.
    108 minutes goes into 24 hours 13.33333 times
    This comes to 4866.6666 time a year or 13.33 years and 14599.999 times in three years or 39.999 years. Wasn’t Desmond was pushing the button for three years before the plane crashed. We know the button was being pushed before he got there.

    I’m doing math, this is going to be a long 5 weeks;(

  508. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200484"]If whoever put the plane in the ocean wanted it to be found, wouldn’t they load the black box with the information that would make it look like it had crashed; and either left the black box with the plane(hoping someone would retrieve it and play it) or make it public themselves to prove that was the real 815 down there so there would be no more searching for it???[/quote]
    I think Widmore produced the black box from the fake plane to “prove” to his crew that Ben faked the crash. I think Widmore actually did it.

  509. LostinSev says:

    Has anyone translated what was inscribed on the back of Jin’s watch Michael pawned??

  510. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200481"]
    Just to get the ball rolling here are some possibilities. I only picked those that are alive now. Some I have guesses on, some not. Two of the names got lost in the wholes in my brain.[/quote]
    Since I interpret Damon as saying that time travel is related to the discovery of Adam and Eve, I don’t want to eliminate anyone just yet. Also, the white and black rocks found on the body must be a significant clue. We don’t have to assume that the two were lovers, just one male and one female and POSSIBLY one on each side of the battle.

  511. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200487"]Has anyone translated what was inscribed on the back of Jin’s watch Michael pawned??[/quote]
    Not much, but all I could find so far:
    After returning to New York, Michael pawns the watch in exchange for a gun. It’s shown to have an inscripted Korean text: “Congratulations … mutual cooperation … business development … Mr. Paik.”

  512. WIserwiz says:

    [quote comment="200342"]CAG – It looked like Ben was in his secret room in his house at the barracks.[/quote]

    I mentioned it before but no one must think it is valid. His secret room has more to it than meets the eye. How is he able to get things on and off the island so effortlessly? There is some “portal” in his secret room that enable instant transportation.

  513. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200490"][quote comment="200342"]CAG – It looked like Ben was in his secret room in his house at the barracks.[/quote]

    I mentioned it before but no one must think it is valid. His secret room has more to it than meets the eye. How is he able to get things on and off the island so effortlessly? There is some “portal” in his secret room that enable instant transportation.[/quote]
    *******************
    Well that would certainly fit in with the CS Lewis/Wardrobe reference. Not sure how it would work but it is a possibility.

  514. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200488"][quote comment="200481"]
    Just to get the ball rolling here are some possibilities. I only picked those that are alive now. Some I have guesses on, some not. Two of the names got lost in the wholes in my brain.[/quote]
    Since I interpret Damon as saying that time travel is related to the discovery of Adam and Eve, I don’t want to eliminate anyone just yet. Also, the white and black rocks found on the body must be a significant clue. We don’t have to assume that the two were lovers, just one male and one female and POSSIBLY one on each side of the battle.[/quote]
    *******************8

    Out of the possible pairs Circus Mom put together, I like the Des/Penny combo. Not sure if one will end up on each side, but I think everyone would like to see them finally together. Maybe this is how they do it, by time traveling to the island her father is obsessed with, and thus avoiding her father all together.

  515. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200483"][quote comment="200482"]Why does anybody think the black box from the fake plane is important? It has been determined that the fake 815 plane was bought by Widmore(according to Tom), painted to look like an Oceanic plane, filled with dead bodies, and then hauled to the Indian Ocean and dropped in to the bottom of the Ocean. There wouldn’t be any info on the black box from that plane.[/quote]
    Agreed. Even if it were actually Ben doing, still nothing on the box.[/quote]
    *********************
    Yet it is important because they made such a point of showing it. It may come into play yet.

  516. leah says:

    [quote comment="200485"][quote comment="200478"][quote comment="200101"]Okay! My neighbor told me her theory and I want to run it by you guys…

    She thinks that island time is six years behind real world time. For instance, when the Losties crashed on the island they are now six years behind. The island time was always set back every 180 minutes and it never advanced until the capsule exploded. Now the island is (maybe)starting to catch up with real time.??

    This would explain why Locke is not paralized (his body before his accident) and Rose doesn’t have cancer (before diagnosis). I know this may not make sense, but that is what my neighbor thinks. Please give thoughts and/or disprove this theory. Thanks![/quote]
    \\\\\\\\\\\
    at the begining it was said that every 108 mins
    was equal to one day in the real world.evey time the code was entered another day passed until the hatch imploded.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++
    What? Who said this? At the begining of what?Is it a theory or from the show. If from the show what epi, I want to re-watch.

    Ok, here is the math on this.
    108 minutes goes into 24 hours 13.33333 times
    This comes to 4866.6666 time a year or 13.33 years and 14599.999 times in three years or 39.999 years. Wasn’t Desmond was pushing the button for three years before the plane crashed. We know the button was being pushed before he got there.

    I’m doing math, this is going to be a long 5 weeks;([/quote]
    ****************************

    the ratio is 1.13 eg.64 days is roughly two and a half years real time. il find the episode if it kills me!

  517. Rita says:

    Circus Mom, I REALLY HOPE Jack is NOT the last one standing!!
    Hammer, since you brought up the time traveling, I have a question that has been bugging me. Desmond said, about his “visions of the future”, that if everything didn’t happen exactly the way he saw it, everything would be changed. Right? So, he convinced Charlie that if he didn’t die, Claire and Aaron wouldn’t be getting on the helicopter to be rescued. Now, he had originally been going to “allow” Charlie to die on the way to the parachuter (who turned out to be Naomi) because he seemed to believe that it would therefore be PENNY rather than Naomi in the parachute. Therefore, he is implying that CURRENT actions/inactions can CHANGE THE PAST – the person in the parachute had already launched, ditched the copter, fell to the island, etc. by the time Charlie was suppose to die. What do you think? Anyone?

  518. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200510"][quote comment="200485"][quote comment="200478"][quote comment="200101"]++++++++++++++++++++
    What? Who said this? At the begining of what?Is it a theory or from the show. If from the show what epi, I want to re-watch.

    ***************************

    the ratio is 1.13 eg.64 days is roughly two and a half years real time. il find the episode if it kills me![/quote]
    ****************

    Are you saying that it was during an EPISODE that they said the 108 minutes = 1 day of real time? How could I have missed THAT????

  519. Trixanna says:

    How could we all have missed that? It seems like vital information. If anyone has any idea which season and episode, please tell!

    Any ideas how we will get through until 4/24/08? As for me, I hope to get some serious Lost DVD watching done, especially S2 since that is where I started losing interest and have lost so much information!

  520. WildBill says:

    My first post. Long time lurker.
    Regarding the shooting of Rousseau, Karl and maybe Alex: Any thoughts as to whether this “shooting” is similar to the “Sleeping Darts” that hit Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley at the end of season two? It didn’t sound like gunshots and although there was a hole in the water bottle it did not look shattered as if a bullet had gone through it.
    If the Others had such good sharp shooters, why would they have tried to recruit Juliet to do the killing of Faraday and Charlotte at the Tempest? Why not get the shooters of Alex etc to kill Faraday? The Others knew where the Freighties were going, so why get a third (possibly unreliable) party involved?
    Great blog – love to read the theories.

  521. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200543"]My first post. Long time lurker.
    Regarding the shooting of Rousseau, Karl and maybe Alex: Any thoughts as to whether this “shooting” is similar to the “Sleeping Darts” that hit Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley at the end of season two? It didn’t sound like gunshots and although there was a hole in the water bottle it did not look shattered as if a bullet had gone through it.
    If the Others had such good sharp shooters, why would they have tried to recruit Juliet to do the killing of Faraday and Charlotte at the Tempest? Why not get the shooters of Alex etc to kill Faraday? The Others knew where the Freighties were going, so why get a third (possibly unreliable) party involved?
    Great blog – love to read the theories.[/quote]
    Good point about Julliet and the sharp shooters, unless Ben needed to test Julliet somehow. But I saw a hole in Karl’s back as he lay on the ground. Pretty sure he at least really is dead.

  522. Polli Kovitch says:

    Four points…

    1)Who needs Alex alive? (Ben, the Others, the Freighters for a hostage) Who wanted to get rid of Karl? (Ben) Could Rousseau still be alive? (possible)

    2)Juliet did not shoot Karl or Rousseau. It is not in her. Charlotte could. Harper could. Juliet is one complicated lady. She is capable of sacrifice and also of survival at any cost.

    3)Michael is clearly “the man in the coffin” that only Jack goes to see in the S3 flashforward. Who else would see him? He has established himself as unable to create a relationship…and Jack appears unable to as well by that point.

    4)The key is John Locke. He is too important a character, a pivot to the Island, not to find a way to survive with Sawyer and perhaps Claire as well. Remember he “knows” something about Jacob. Claire might CHOOSE to give Aaron to Kate…or she might have no choice. She does not know that Jack is Aaron’s uncle..yet.

  523. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200606"]Four points…

    1)Who needs Alex alive? (Ben, the Others, the Freighters for a hostage) Who wanted to get rid of Karl? (Ben) Could Rousseau still be alive? (possible)

    2)Juliet did not shoot Karl or Rousseau. It is not in her. Charlotte could. Harper could. Juliet is one complicated lady. She is capable of sacrifice and also of survival at any cost.

    3)Michael is clearly “the man in the coffin” that only Jack goes to see in the S3 flashforward. Who else would see him? He has established himself as unable to create a relationship…and Jack appears unable to as well by that point.

    4)The key is John Locke. He is too important a character, a pivot to the Island, not to find a way to survive with Sawyer and perhaps Claire as well. Remember he “knows” something about Jacob. Claire might CHOOSE to give Aaron to Kate…or she might have no choice. She does not know that Jack is Aaron’s uncle..yet.[/quote]
    Excellent points all. Especially about John Locke. He could be the last man standing.

  524. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200606"]
    3)Michael is clearly “the man in the coffin” that only Jack goes to see in the S3 flashforward. Who else would see him? He has established himself as unable to create a relationship…and Jack appears unable to as well by that point.
    [/quote]Okay, Michael MAY be the coffin dweller, but he is not CLEARLY the one.
    1. We don’t know if he even survives the freighter folks to get back to NY.
    2. There are several folks that no one would care to visit and even more depending how events unfold over the rest of the series. Locke, Ben, Sawyer, Des if Penny dies. Before you mention that they don’t have teenage sons…already know that people will be living lies when they get back…

  525. leah says:

    can some one please tell me which episode ben lets juliet see her sister on a cctv moniter
    opereted by mikial the eye patch man?

  526. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200621"]can some one please tell me which episode ben lets juliet see her sister on a cctv moniter
    opereted by mikial the eye patch man?[/quote]
    Season 3, episode 16, “One of Us”.

  527. dukewm says:

    Michael (373):
    I believe all we know for sure is that Jack sat in 23B and Anna Lucia was in 42F

    Hans (443):
    That’s an OLD theory which some have claimed (incorrectly) to have originated recently. When Charlie spoke to Penny in TTLG (S3E23), it was clearly evident that Pennys’ Antarctic Team had gotten the Island coordinates and hence Widmore could have “caught wind” of that information through Penny. The Season 3 Finale was tied together with the Season 2 Finale. All of which led to Widmores’ Freighter “expedition”.

    lost4ever (479):
    The bullet-proof vest isn’t the ONLY “worn-out” discussion this week. By the time April 24th rolls around, this “thread” will be 7000 comments.

    (For Those Who are Wondering)
    This could save some reading time . . .
    An observation about how posts appear depending on how “Quote and Reply” is used:
    When clicking on “Quote and Reply” to a comment that has 1 or more “John Doe wrote” ONLY the original comment is in shadow, the replies to the original comment are NOT in shadow, all separated by a line of asterisks for each “generation” of comments contained in THAT single post.
    To avoid re-reading paragraphs, just scroll to the bottom of THAT post and read ONLY the latest comment below the LAST line of asterisks.

  528. dukewm says:

    leah (502):
    Find out any proof on your 108 = 1 day real-world time yet ?

    I’m sure you’ll post if/when you locate that Ep. which lots of us would love to re-watch.

  529. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200623"]Michael (373):
    I believe all we know for sure is that Jack sat in 23B and Anna Lucia was in 42F

    [/quote]
    Elliott Maslow 9C Alive
    Boone Carlyle 9E Dead
    Shannon Rutherford 9F Dead
    Hugo “Hurley” Reyes 20G 20H Alive
    Jack Shephard 23B Alive
    Rose Nadler 23D Alive
    Bernard Nadler 23E Alive
    John Locke 24D Alive
    Claire Littleton 27C Alive
    Edward Mars 27G Dead
    Kate Austen 27H Alive
    Charlie Pace 29C Dead
    Ana-Lucia Cortez 42F Dead

    BTW, the asteriks only get there if the second(or more) quoter puts them there.

  530. dukewm says:

    oh yeah,
    somewhere way back in this weeks discussion someone answered my question on this seasons schedule and claimed to know that beginning April 24th they were going to air only 5 of the originally planned 8 more episodes. Then, the 3 would be “made up” during S5 and S6.

    I’m wondering, first of all, is that confirmed information by ABC ? . . .
    and if so, wouldn’t that really screw up the flow of events ? . . .
    i.e. how can they just stop at the end of S3E13, take an 8 month layoff and then begin S5 with S4E14 ? . . .
    unless of course that IS a very good place to end S3.

    Anybody know whether ABC has formally announced their “air schedule” ?

  531. dukewm says:

    thanks Hammer,

    Where did you get the seat assignments ?

  532. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200627"]thanks Hammer,

    Where did you get the seat assignments ?[/quote]
    From lostpedia.com, some people don’t think it’s reliable because the info is updated by fans, but I haven’t run into any big inaccuracies yet.

  533. leah says:

    [quote comment="200624"]leah (502):
    Find out any proof on your 108 = 1 day real-world time yet ?

    I’m sure you’ll post if/when you locate that Ep. which lots of us would love to re-watch.[/quote]trawling through the episodes now

  534. dukewm says:

    leah,
    Wasn’t it from early S2 when Locke was showing the Dharma video of the oriental guy to other Losties ?

  535. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200626"]oh yeah,
    somewhere way back in this weeks discussion someone answered my question on this seasons schedule and claimed to know that beginning April 24th they were going to air only 5 of the originally planned 8 more episodes. Then, the 3 would be “made up” during S5 and S6.

    I’m wondering, first of all, is that confirmed information by ABC ? . . .
    and if so, wouldn’t that really screw up the flow of events ? . . .
    i.e. how can they just stop at the end of S3E13, take an 8 month layoff and then begin S5 with S4E14 ? . . .
    unless of course that IS a very good place to end S3.

    Anybody know whether ABC has formally announced their “air schedule” ?[/quote]
    From the 2-28-08 podcast:

    February 28, 2008
    Running length 23:26

    “Executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse rehash the mechanics of time-travel in “The Constant” and take fan questions.”

    Plans for Season 4
    There will be five more episodes this seasons after the eight that have already been completed. The plan for the originally intended eight episodes will be compressed and done in five episodes. Nothing will be missing, it will be a “supercharged five hours of show.”
    The three hours will be added to the next two seasons, so there will still be 40 hours of show in addition to the eight already produced.

  536. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200631"]leah,
    Wasn’t it from early S2 when Locke was showing the Dharma video of the oriental guy to other Losties ?[/quote]
    According to this, the film DOES NOT tell why the button is being pushed:
    Further the film details the procedures at the Swan station. It explains The Swan is station number 3, originally designed to study “the unique electromagnetic fluctuations” from its part of the island. It does not describe these characteristics however but apparently a certain “incident” occurred at some point. As a result, every 108 minutes, a code (the numbers) has to be entered into the computer terminal (see pushing the button). Reasons for the execution of the protocol are not provided, but it is emphasized that it is of “utmost importance”. Also, partners at the station are there for 540 day shifts, after which new replacements would arrive.

  537. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="200626"]oh yeah,
    somewhere way back in this weeks discussion someone answered my question on this seasons schedule and claimed to know that beginning April 24th they were going to air only 5 of the originally planned 8 more episodes. Then, the 3 would be “made up” during S5 and S6.

    I’m wondering, first of all, is that confirmed information by ABC ? . . .
    and if so, wouldn’t that really screw up the flow of events ? . . .
    i.e. how can they just stop at the end of S3E13, take an 8 month layoff and then begin S5 with S4E14 ? . . .
    unless of course that IS a very good place to end S3.

    Anybody know whether ABC has formally announced their “air schedule” ?[/quote]

    To confirm what Hammer said, and paraphrase D&C:

    We will have five more episodes in this season which will finish this arc of this season’s story.

    Over the remaining two seasons, we will have a total of 35 (16 + 16 + the “missing” 3) more episodes, which gives us the complete 48 we were promised at the end of Season Three. Those three episodes will not be part of Season Four, but rather extra episodes in Season Five, or Six, or split between them.

    : ) P

  538. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="200632"][quote comment="200626"]oh yeah,
    somewhere way back in this weeks discussion someone answered my question on this seasons schedule and claimed to know that beginning April 24th they were going to air only 5 of the originally planned 8 more episodes. Then, the 3 would be “made up” during S5 and S6.

    I’m wondering, first of all, is that confirmed information by ABC ? . . .
    and if so, wouldn’t that really screw up the flow of events ? . . .
    i.e. how can they just stop at the end of S3E13, take an 8 month layoff and then begin S5 with S4E14 ? . . .
    unless of course that IS a very good place to end S3.

    Anybody know whether ABC has formally announced their “air schedule” ?[/quote]

    The three hours will be added to the next two seasons, so there will still be 40 hours of show in addition to the eight already produced.
    [/quote]
    ===================
    40 hours fo show and 40 hours of commercials including preveiws for ELI Stone. Too many commercials.

  539. lost4ever says:

    How do you only keep a section of the original post in the shadow? HAMMER did this with Polli Kovitch #525

  540. dukewm says:

    lost4ever (540):
    I tried to edit by cutting out irrelevant sections of the comment I was “Quote and Reply” (ing)to and noticed that by doing that NOTHING appeared in “shadow”, so I figure you HAVE to include the whole comment for it to appear in “shadow” on YOUR reply.

  541. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="200647"]lost4ever (540):
    I tried to edit by cutting out irrelevant sections of the comment I was “Quote and Reply” (ing)to and noticed that by doing that NOTHING appeared in “shadow”, so I figure you HAVE to include the whole comment for it to appear in “shadow” on YOUR reply.[/quote]
    That’s what I tried also. Oh Great and wonderful HAMMER please to us your trick.

  542. Bobola says:

    I’m gonna say it one last time and after that you are on your own…
    The freighter is a SHIP not a BOAT. Just because the writers got that wrong doesn’t mean you have to.

    Do people who are getting shot at not know that running upright is not very smart…that you wanna crawl away to escape? I can understand the kids panicing maybe but not the longtime Island Vet French Lady. But someone mentioned maybe it is a ploy for her to “play dead” because she was wearing a vest…
    That would be plausible except for taking one in the head or elsewhere is so likely as well.

    Sayeed has suddenly gone stoopid! He trusts the scary Freighter Crew? Michael is a scumbag…but if I were Sayeed I’d hold my tongue and ponder a while before blowing up like a crazy Arab. HE used to be the one I trusted the most…now? Not. Looks like Michael has grown a conscience….boo hoo.

    Miles looks like he’s had a few kilometers knocked off his face but still is good for a one liner re Ben having his cake and eating it too.

    Were we not led to believe in earlier episode that it was BEN who arranged the fake crash and now are told it is Widmore?

    That Eli Stone Show is so annoying! I can’t get to the mute button fast enuf! I’d rather watch Geico Caveman commercials which were better than the CAveman Show itself. Be cool to find a CAveman on the ISland like there was in old Saturday Nite LIVE skits. Like to see more funny/silly stuff happen like with Hugo and the VW at some point.

  543. dukewm says:

    thanks again Hammer, PJSander and lost4ever on those schedule updates

    leah:
    I just re-watched all of S2E3 Orientation where Des tells Locke and Jack about the film. Like Hammer said there is no mention of WHY the button has to be pushed.
    Nor is there any reference to any time correlation.
    At least I got refreshed on the oriental guys’ name: Dr. Martin Candle (last name sounded like ‘candle’).
    When film was made (1980) he said the “partners” would be at the Swan for the next 540 days (before replacements arrived).
    540 days divided by 108 minutes = 7,200 times
    or 13.3333 times/day one of the “partners” would have to enter code/push the button.
    Also, the married Michigan doctoral candidates, the DeGroots had started the Dharma Initiative in 1970 and that Alvar Hanso was a Dutch Industrialist who dealt in munitions (among other industries).

    If there is mention of 108 = 1 day it has to be AFTER S2E3

  544. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200647"]lost4ever (540):
    I tried to edit by cutting out irrelevant sections of the comment I was “Quote and Reply” (ing)to and noticed that by doing that NOTHING appeared in “shadow”, so I figure you HAVE to include the whole comment for it to appear in “shadow” on YOUR reply.[/quote]
    ****************
    As long as you leave “quote” at the beginning, and “quote” at the end, you can delete anything in the middle that you choose.
    Regarding multi posts on one comment: I have been hoping for an opportunity to request that people who do this (that would be most of us), would PLEASE include at the beginning of your post a line of SOMETHING ie ***** or +++++ or whatever so that it is possible to just read the new part at the end. It gets frustrating trying to figure out who said what and what is new when it all runs together. THANK YOU!!!!
    Also, while I’m on the topic: When posting, your ideas will be clearer, easier to read, and taken more seriously, if you PLEASE TRY to use proper punctuation, capital letters when needed, spaces between sentences, and correct spelling. I’m not a snob (I hope) but reading some of the posts is more difficult than it needs to be because of these issues. Again, THANK YOU and keep the great ideas coming!

  545. dukewm says:

    gotta watch some hoops for awhile . . . then
    probably have to read 300 posts to catch up

  546. dukewm says:

    All right Rita!
    Thanks for the tip and I second the motion on your posting protocol.

  547. lost4ever says:

    I [quote comment="200543"]My first post. Long time lurker.
    Regarding the shooting of Rousseau, Karl and maybe Alex: Any thoughts as to whether this “shooting” is similar to the “Sleeping Darts” that hit Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley at the end of season two? It didn’t sound like gunshots and although there was a hole in the water bottle it did not look shattered as if a bullet had gone through it.
    If the Others had such good sharp shooters, why would they have tried to recruit Juliet to do the killing of Faraday and Charlotte at the Tempest? Why not get the shooters of Alex etc to kill Faraday? The Others knew where the Freighties were going, so why get a third (possibly unreliable) party involved?
    Great blog – love to read the theories.[/quote]
    A sniper rifle with a silencer would not make much sound. I don’t think a plastic water bottle would shatter. As far as Juliet getting involved, like Rita said, it was probably a test which she failed at miserably. I am not totally convinced that the “Temple” is actually a place yet. Sounds more like a code word.

  548. Trixanna says:

    Rita, thank you. I have often wondered where good grammar went. I understand about typo’s and SOME words being spelled wrong, but sometimes it appears that we don’t even try. It is MUCH easier to read with proper punctuation at the very least. This forum isn’t a text message system, go ahead and use full sentences with spaces after the periods at least.

    Bobola, I am glad that this is the last time you will bring up the “ship” vs. “boat” thing. I think we all know what the person is talking about whether they say ship or boat so it is really a moot point.

  549. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="200675"]Rita, thank you.

    Bobola, I am glad that this is the last time you will bring up the “ship” vs. “boat” thing. [/quote]
    Thank you Rita. I had to test it to see if I did it right. I agree with you Trixiana….the point is moot.

  550. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200651"]I’m gonna say it one last time and after that you are on your own…
    The freighter is a SHIP not a BOAT. Just because the writers got that wrong doesn’t mean you have to.

    …but if I were Sayeed I’d hold my tongue and ponder a while before blowing up like a crazy Arab. [/quote]
    ********************

    Bobola, I live on Lake Huron where freighters pass by daily. The locals here often refer to them as “boats”, though they own actual “boats” and do know the difference. I think it just a general term of affection or familiarity, and not meant to affend anyone (like you).

    Your comment where you said “…before blowing up like a crazy Arab” was disrespectful to a whole group of people. I think respect for others is implied under “Be kind and helpful”, which is what I am sure you intended to be.

  551. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200695"]
    Bobola, I live on Lake Huron where freighters pass by daily. The locals here often refer to them as “boats”, though they own actual “boats” and do know the difference.[/quote]
    Fellow Michiganer? You are correct, even though the primary def. of boat is a small vessel, a secondary def. is a large vessel for travel(in our crazy bastardized American english, so many in the marine community call ships boats. It’s just symantics.

  552. lost4ever says:

    [/quote]
    at the begining it was said that every 108 mins
    was equal to one day in the real world.evey time the code was entered another day passed until the hatch imploded.

    the ratio is 1.13 eg.64 days is roughly two and a half years real time. il find the episode if it kills me![/quote]
    Are you dead yet? This was never stated on any episode.

  553. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200648"][quote comment="200647"]lost4ever (540):
    I tried to edit by cutting out irrelevant sections of the comment I was “Quote and Reply” (ing)to and noticed that by doing that NOTHING appeared in “shadow”, so I figure you HAVE to include the whole comment for it to appear in “shadow” on YOUR reply.[/quote]
    That’s what I tried also. Oh Great and wonderful HAMMER please to us your trick.[/quote]
    Looks like you are all set up. “Oh Great and wonderful Hammer…”, funny. I learned most of my tricks from past and present posters, nothing special about me.

  554. CAG says:

    [quote comment="200675"]Rita, thank you. I have often wondered where good grammar went.

    Bobola, I am glad that this is the last time you will bring up the “ship” vs. “boat” thing. [/quote]

    Ships Vs. Boats, grammer and spelling, It’s only been a few days! This blog is gonna be like “Lord of the Flies” after 5 weeks!

  555. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200543"]My first post. Long time lurker.
    Regarding the shooting of Rousseau, Karl and maybe Alex: Any thoughts as to whether this “shooting” is similar to the “Sleeping Darts” that hit Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley at the end of season two? It didn’t sound like gunshots and although there was a hole in the water bottle it did not look shattered as if a bullet had gone through it.
    If the Others had such good sharp shooters, why would they have tried to recruit Juliet to do the killing of Faraday and Charlotte at the Tempest? Why not get the shooters of Alex etc to kill Faraday? The Others knew where the Freighties were going, so why get a third (possibly unreliable) party involved?
    Great blog – love to read the theories.[/quote]
    Juliette is a pretty good shot. Remember when she shot what’s his name to help Kate and Sawyer escape?

  556. Circus Mom says:

    OK, I’ve found my coping mechanism for the next 5 weeks. If I watch 1 episode a day and two each weekend day I can re-watch the whole first three seasons before we start back up. I also plan on going through the archive on this blog since I just joined this season. Most of it reads pretty fast but ther is some interesting stuff I missed in the first three seasons.

  557. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200778"]OK, I’ve found my coping mechanism for the next 5 weeks. If I watch 1 episode a day and two each weekend day I can re-watch the whole first three seasons before we start back up. I also plan on going through the archive on this blog since I just joined this season. Most of it reads pretty fast but ther is some interesting stuff I missed in the first three seasons.[/quote]
    ***************
    What a great idea Circus Mom!! I’m sure it will jar the old brain. I just joined the blog this season too, and would love a chance to go through the archive too. Plus, I have a new LA mug (LOSTaholics Anon) from my Easter basket (my family knows me!!) so I can be “in meeting” every day!

  558. Circus Mom says:

    Rita, and anyone else interested. I found the best way for me to go the the begining and read everything is this.

    Log onto the first page http://www.lostblog.net.
    Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on Next page.
    Go up to the URL and change the number 2 at the end to the page I am on. There are about 65 pages. This way I can mark the number I have gotton to and return there on my next visit.

    I don’t think I’ll post on any old threads unless other LAA members start to.

  559. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200789"]Rita, and anyone else interested. I found the best way for me to go the the begining and read everything is this.

    Log onto the first page http://www.lostblog.net.
    Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on Next page.
    Go up to the URL and change the number 2 at the end to the page I am on. There are about 65 pages. This way I can mark the number I have gotton to and return there on my next visit.

    I don’t think I’ll post on any old threads unless other LAA members start to.[/quote]
    Thanks, I’ll try that! Should be some interesting reading!!

  560. Hammer says:

    Circus Mom and Rita, you will laugh at how silly some of the stuff is because the theories are thrown out with the lack of info we now have. Also, I think you will get a chance to see how some of vets have grown. Don’t forget to point out the funny stuff you find.

    In case you didn’t know, this blog was started by a fella named Andreas who’s fandom will be obvious(I know I miss his posts). Pandora was another great contibutor that you will enjoy amongst several others. Happy hunting.

  561. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200481"][quote comment="200474"]Well, 500 posts later we are running low on substance. This break is gonna suck.
    So, I bring up this quote from Damon since time travel had become more prevelant:
    “DAMON: It’s been in the DNA of the show since the very beginning. Obviously, one thing the flash backs and the flash forwards provide you with is the idea of time travel. You’re bouncing around in time and events from the past are seemingly influencing the present, but it’s not a traditional time travel story until we started talking about what the hatch was there for, and what this electromagnetic energy that the hatch is trying to contain is and what would be the effect of that hatch going away, otherwise known as the purple sky event. And it was sort of those conversations which obviously happened way back in season one when Locke and Boone found the hatch that were the early precursors of time travel. I will say, though, that the first significant event in the show where we were thinking in the back of our minds that this is going to require a story telling element that isn’t traditional narrative, is the discovery of Adam and Eve in the caves.”

    +++++++++++++
    Time to start working on who Adam and Eve are since time travel is a factor and it is possible that they found the bodies of someone who walks among them. Locke brought up to Walt when playing back gammon that it is the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, black vs. white. Is one of the folks a Whidmorian and the other a Benonite?[/quote]

    Just to get the ball rolling here are some possibilities. I only picked those that are alive now. Some I have guesses on, some not. Two of the names got lost in the wholes in my brain.

    Jack and Kate No Because of Aaron
    Sawyer and Kate No Because of Aaron
    Claire No
    Jin No
    Locke No
    Hurley No
    Sayid and ____ Probably not
    Michael No (maiby coffin)
    Hurley Probably not
    Alex
    Desmond and Penny Maiby
    Walt
    Emma and _____
    Cindy
    Richard
    Sun Probably not because of Ji
    Aaron and Ji Possibly
    Bernard and Rose
    Charlotte
    Daniel
    Miles
    Ben and Juliette
    Jack and Juliette[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    More thoughts on this
    When (if) we find out who Adam & Eve are we still may not know which one is good and which opne is evil.
    Thinking about Rita’s Last man standing, who is the last woman standing.
    Finally, a guess that deserves some discussion.

    Aaron and Ji

  562. Michael says:

    [quote comment="200625"][quote comment="200623"]Michael (373):
    I believe all we know for sure is that Jack sat in 23B and Anna Lucia was in 42F

    [/quote]
    Elliott Maslow 9C Alive
    Boone Carlyle 9E Dead
    Shannon Rutherford 9F Dead
    Hugo “Hurley” Reyes 20G 20H Alive
    Jack Shephard 23B Alive
    Rose Nadler 23D Alive
    Bernard Nadler 23E Alive
    John Locke 24D Alive
    Claire Littleton 27C Alive
    Edward Mars 27G Dead
    Kate Austen 27H Alive
    Charlie Pace 29C Dead
    Ana-Lucia Cortez 42F Dead

    BTW, the asteriks only get there if the second(or more) quoter puts them there.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Thank you both.

  563. Michael says:

    Bodies on fuax plane from Thailand, Jack got his tattos in Thailand. Anything there?

  564. Michael says:

    Aaron and Ji make it back to the Island. Thats a neet theory. Does the Island have a name?

  565. Michael says:

    When Ben is on the radio with Michael He is in a closet. there are shirts hanging up, he’s in a robe and in a wheel chair!

  566. Michael says:

    Don’t think Danielle was wearing a vest there was blood from her wound. Where she is shot does not look like a kill shot. She will most defiantly be in the next episode

  567. dukewm says:

    I think we can be sure Karl & Rousseau have been killed !

    Who was the shooter ?
    So far I’ve heard (read):
    Ben’s Others
    Freighter Tots – either Franks’ new mission and/or CS Lewis
    Mikhail (Patchy)
    Harper

    Sounded like a silencer to me and I don’t remember seeing any weapons equipped with silencers.

    Of the “prime suspects”, I’m leaning towards the Bens’ Others theory.

    How many posts can we expect to see including
    O6,
    Man in the coffin,
    Jin dead or alive
    during the next 5 weeks ?

  568. dukewm says:

    One last thought on the Schedule:
    IF they do in fact “compress” the originally scheduled 8 remaining episodes into 5 “supercharged” hours to end Season 3
    (see Hammer # 536), I believe they’ll have to CUT some good/valuable material in order to finish at the same “end point” and allow for the 20 minutes of Eli Stone commercials in each episode. (don’t see any way around them leaving some footage on the floor)

    THAT, to me, would seem like a REAL pain in the A**, and I don’t mean just as a viewer, but also for the Producers.
    Wouldn’t it be MUCH easier to just extend the season by ANY scheduling framework they had to work with and air ALL the episodes as originally produced ?
    They could air the remaining 8 FULL episodes in the Fall.

    Also, by cutting material, they have compromised the integrity of the story.
    When you think about it, it’s a LOT more serious than “oh, they’re just gonna’ make it up”.

  569. Michael says:

    Carl is defiantly dead!

  570. Michael says:

    The captains reaction to Sayid bursting in and telling him Kevin is in fact Michael was less than shocked. More as if he already knew.

  571. Lins says:

    Maybe we can all petition ABC to air the final episodes with “limited commercial interuption”? I’m sick of the 40 minute episodes as well!

    As an aside…it is pretty funny to go back and read old posts from the past seasons…like when Ben shot Locke and everyone on here was arguing if he was really dead or alive…good times ;)

  572. sector7 says:

    I get busy over the past few days and bam! 600 posts! It’s taken me three days, on and off, to read them all. I know I’m a little late to the game, but I think the dust is starting to clear around here.

    Please stop with the Miles went to Walt’s grandmas house. 2 different cities, same time period, 2 different women, 2 different grandsons. And Miles wasn’t talking to Ben in “code” abt the 3.2 mil. I think Miles’ story is pretty straightforward. He uses his ability to make money. He used it to get money from the kids house, and he wants to use it to get money from Ben.

    Sayid doesn’t trust the cap’n. Sayid=smart. Storming in with Mikey is a great poker move — all bets are in and everyone has to show their hand now. The cap’s next words will tell Sayid who he needs to kill next.

    I was most intrigued by Tom telling Mike that “you still have work to do”… Same words Walt used to get John out of the ditch. I think this means the island was appearing to John as Walt. This contradicts my theory that Walt teleported to that scene. I think the island appeared to Hugo as Charlie too. The island must be a place that is like a bridge to “the other side”. This would explain why you can see dead people there. If there were such a place it might also exist within an area where timespace is out of synch — close to the edge so to speak. Where the living and the dead can co-exist. I’m starting to believe that Jacob is the island. It’s a place, but also a being.

  573. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="200859"]One last thought on the Schedule:
    IF they do in fact “compress” the originally scheduled 8 remaining episodes into 5 “supercharged” hours to end Season 3
    (see Hammer # 536), I believe they’ll have to CUT some good/valuable material in order to finish at the same “end point” and allow for the 20 minutes of Eli Stone commercials in each episode. (don’t see any way around them leaving some footage on the floor)

    THAT, to me, would seem like a REAL pain in the A**, and I don’t mean just as a viewer, but also for the Producers.
    Wouldn’t it be MUCH easier to just extend the season by ANY scheduling framework they had to work with and air ALL the episodes as originally produced ?
    They could air the remaining 8 FULL episodes in the Fall.

    Also, by cutting material, they have compromised the integrity of the story.
    When you think about it, it’s a LOT more serious than “oh, they’re just gonna’ make it up”.[/quote]

    Well, the reason that they are only DOING five more episodes is that they didn’t write a single WORD during the WGA strike. According to the podcast, D&C didn’t even DISCUSS the show during the strike.

    Prior to the strike, those last eight episodes were mapped out with an overall arc to the story, but the scripts were not written and footage was not shot. They are filming those episodes now. There will be film on the cutting room floor, but likely no more than during a regular editing session.

    D&C have also alluded to postponing a couple of secondary story lines until next season in order to complete the arc within the five episodes. I don’t think we will notice anything “missing” though.

    Another reason that they can’t just keep going until the eight episodes are complete is that everyone involved (cast, producers, writers, crew, etc.) has to take hiatus time to fulfill other commitments. The crew, for example, doesn’t get paid big bucks, and may have jobs on the mainland waiting for them.

    Additionally, the sixteen (plus) episodes for Season Five require planning, writing and shooting as well, and if everyone were to continue to work until the remaining eight we were expecting were done THIS season, it would delay the start of Season Five’s production. ABC schedules LOST for February through May to cover two “sweeps” periods. We already are expecting to wait until early 2009 for Season Five. If they miss that cut off, they would probably delay until the October sweeps. WHO wants to wait until FALL 2009?

    The best news (for many) is that since LOST is moving to 10pm when it returns April 24th, we may well be spared the Eli Stone commercials! Plus, if they filmed the traditional initial 13 episode pick-up, all those Eli Stone episodes will have shown by the time LOST returns. There will STILL be WAY too many commercials (too many, too often and too long) during LOST, but there always HAS been! LOL

    : ) P

  574. lost chicka says:

    omg, i STILL canNOT believe that rouseau, daniel rouseau, is dead!!!!!!!! she can’t be! i really hope she’ll just be wounded like locke was. i really don’t see it being the others that shot at them, why would they shoot at ben’s daughter? i think it’s some freighter tots or something.

    terrific episode, i can’t believe i haven’t posted till now! and i can’t believe i have have to wait till april 24th for my next new lost fix!

  575. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="200845"][quote comment="200625"][quote comment="200623"]Michael (373):
    I believe all we know for sure is that Jack sat in 23B and Anna Lucia was in 42F

    [/quote]
    Elliott Maslow 9C Alive
    Boone Carlyle 9E Dead
    Shannon Rutherford 9F Dead
    Hugo “Hurley” Reyes 20G 20H Alive
    Jack Shephard 23B Alive
    Rose Nadler 23D Alive
    Bernard Nadler 23E Alive
    John Locke 24D Alive
    Claire Littleton 27C Alive
    Edward Mars 27G Dead
    Kate Austen 27H Alive
    Charlie Pace 29C Dead
    Ana-Lucia Cortez 42F Dead

    BTW, the asteriks only get there if the second(or more) quoter puts them there.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Thank you both.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Just rewatched epi 1-5 Jack says he was in 23A.

  576. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200837"][quote comment="200481"][quote comment="200474"]
    +++++++++++++
    Time to start working on who Adam and Eve are since time travel is a factor and it is possible that they found the bodies of someone who walks among them. Locke brought up to Walt when playing back gammon that it is the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, black vs. white. Is one of the folks a Whidmorian and the other a Benonite?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    More thoughts on this
    When (if) we find out who Adam & Eve are we still may not know which one is good and which opne is evil.
    Thinking about Rita’s Last man standing, who is the last woman standing.
    Finally, a guess that deserves some discussion.

    Aaron and Ji[/quote]
    *********************************

    I like it. Aaron and Ji. Coming back to their roots. I guess that would also make them the FIRST man and woman standing, as Adam and Eve!

  577. dukewm says:

    [quote comment="200878"]I get busy over the past few days and bam! 600 posts! It’s taken me three days, on and off, to read them all. I know I’m a little late to the game, but I think the dust is starting to clear around here.

    Please stop with the Miles went to Walt’s grandmas house. 2 different cities, same time period, 2 different women, 2 different grandsons. And Miles wasn’t talking to Ben in “code” abt the 3.2 mil. I think Miles’ story is pretty straightforward. He uses his ability to make money. He used it to get money from the kids house, and he wants to use it to get money from Ben.

    Sayid doesn’t trust the cap’n. Sayid=smart. Storming in with Mikey is a great poker move — all bets are in and everyone has to show their hand now. The cap’s next words will tell Sayid who he needs to kill next.

    I was most intrigued by Tom telling Mike that “you still have work to do”… Same words Walt used to get John out of the ditch. I think this means the island was appearing to John as Walt. This contradicts my theory that Walt teleported to that scene. I think the island appeared to Hugo as Charlie too. The island must be a place that is like a bridge to “the other side”. This would explain why you can see dead people there. If there were such a place it might also exist within an area where timespace is out of synch — close to the edge so to speak. Where the living and the dead can co-exist. I’m starting to believe that Jacob is the island. It’s a place, but also a being.[/quote]

    Now there’s a thread worthy of deeper discussion (your last paragraph). Looks like a few “puzzle pieces” fit in nicely with that theory. The dead can briefly come through from “the transporter room” and then disappear.
    hmmmmm ? Star Trek from Heaven (or would it be Hell)?

  578. dukewm says:

    [quote comment="200898"][quote comment="200859"]One last thought on the Schedule:
    IF they do in fact “compress” the originally scheduled 8 remaining episodes into 5 “supercharged” hours to end Season 3
    (see Hammer # 536), I believe they’ll have to CUT some good/valuable material in order to finish at the same “end point” and allow for the 20 minutes of Eli Stone commercials in each episode. (don’t see any way around them leaving some footage on the floor)

    THAT, to me, would seem like a REAL pain in the A**, and I don’t mean just as a viewer, but also for the Producers.
    Wouldn’t it be MUCH easier to just extend the season by ANY scheduling framework they had to work with and air ALL the episodes as originally produced ?
    They could air the remaining 8 FULL episodes in the Fall.

    Also, by cutting material, they have compromised the integrity of the story.
    When you think about it, it’s a LOT more serious than “oh, they’re just gonna’ make it up”.[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    “Well, the reason that they are only DOING five more episodes is that they didn’t write a single WORD during the WGA strike. According to the podcast, D&C didn’t even DISCUSS the show during the strike.

    Prior to the strike, those last eight episodes were mapped out with an overall arc to the story, but the scripts were not written and footage was not shot. They are filming those episodes now. There will be film on the cutting room floor, but likely no more than during a regular editing session.

    D&C have also alluded to postponing a couple of secondary story lines until next season in order to complete the arc within the five episodes. I don’t think we will notice anything “missing” though.

    Another reason that they can’t just keep going until the eight episodes are complete is that everyone involved (cast, producers, writers, crew, etc.) has to take hiatus time to fulfill other commitments. The crew, for example, doesn’t get paid big bucks, and may have jobs on the mainland waiting for them.

    Additionally, the sixteen (plus) episodes for Season Five require planning, writing and shooting as well, and if everyone were to continue to work until the remaining eight we were expecting were done THIS season, it would delay the start of Season Five’s production. ABC schedules LOST for February through May to cover two “sweeps” periods. We already are expecting to wait until early 2009 for Season Five. If they miss that cut off, they would probably delay until the October sweeps. WHO wants to wait until FALL 2009?

    The best news (for many) is that since LOST is moving to 10pm when it returns April 24th, we may well be spared the Eli Stone commercials! Plus, if they filmed the traditional initial 13 episode pick-up, all those Eli Stone episodes will have shown by the time LOST returns. There will STILL be WAY too many commercials (too many, too often and too long) during LOST, but there always HAS been! LOL”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    (testing Rita’s tip)
    Dude (or Dudette ?)
    Great inside info, thanks.

    I understand all the alternate obligations/commitments by cast, crew and network. I had assumed they had this season already scripted BEFORE the strike.
    You know what they say about “assume”.

    Also, nice of you to point out the “advantage” of the 10:00 air time. My guess is Eli Stone was getting ZERO lead-in from Lost anyway.
    Of course we’ll still get 18 minutes of garbage/network promo every hour. Hope they mix it up a little.

  579. dukewm says:

    [quote comment="200972"][quote comment="200837"][quote comment="200481"][quote comment="200474"]
    +++++++++++++
    Time to start working on who Adam and Eve are since time travel is a factor and it is possible that they found the bodies of someone who walks among them. Locke brought up to Walt when playing back gammon that it is the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, black vs. white. Is one of the folks a Whidmorian and the other a Benonite?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    More thoughts on this
    When (if) we find out who Adam & Eve are we still may not know which one is good and which opne is evil.
    Thinking about Rita’s Last man standing, who is the last woman standing.
    Finally, a guess that deserves some discussion.

    Aaron and Ji[/quote]
    *********************************

    I like it. Aaron and Ji. Coming back to their roots. I guess that would also make them the FIRST man and woman standing, as Adam and Eve![/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Is the “sun burning through the clouds” here and shedding some light on the series Finale ?

    After the final tumultuous Ben vs Widmore battle where everything on the Island is destroyed, all 6 Dharma stations (or what’s left of them), New Otherton, the Temple, the dock, etc. ; all that’s left are Aaron (Adam) and Ji Yeon (Eve). Everyone else has been killed and everything has reverted back to “the beginning”.

    Last Man/Woman standing
    First Man/Woman standing
    A new beginning!

  580. Pam says:

    [quote comment="200978"][quote comment="200972"][quote comment="200837"][quote comment="200481"][quote comment="200474"]
    After the final tumultuous Ben vs Widmore battle where everything on the Island is destroyed, all 6 Dharma stations (or what’s left of them), New Otherton, the Temple, the dock, etc. ; all that’s left are Aaron (Adam) and Ji Yeon (Eve). Everyone else has been killed and everything has reverted back to “the beginning”.
    [quote]
    But Ji wasn’t born on the island.

  581. dukewm says:

    and couldn’t we say that Ji was somewhat of an “immaculate conception” ?

    One observation on the “multi-comment” thread postings:

    The lines of asterisks (plus signs, whatever) definitely help the reader, however, being left up to the “commentor” to separate the paragraphs by portions of the thread credited to each previous “commentor”, leaves room for error and hence, confusion.

    I don’t know if it’s possible but it would be nice if each “commentor” in the thread could be structured so that his/her contribution would be right below their name.

    I agree with Rita about long rambling text is also harder to follow.

    Please use LOTS of “white space” to separate thoughts.

  582. dukewm says:

    [quote comment="200981"][quote comment="200978"][quote comment="200972"][quote comment="200837"][quote comment="200481"][quote comment="200474"]
    After the final tumultuous Ben vs Widmore battle where everything on the Island is destroyed, all 6 Dharma stations (or what’s left of them), New Otherton, the Temple, the dock, etc. ; all that’s left are Aaron (Adam) and Ji Yeon (Eve). Everyone else has been killed and everything has reverted back to “the beginning”.
    [quote]
    But Ji wasn’t born on the island.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That’s weird, your comment is “in shadow”

    Anyway, so what ?
    Ji wouldn’t necessarily have to have been born on the Island. She is the “immaculate conception”.

  583. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200983"][quote comment="200981"][quote comment="200978"][quote comment="200972"][quote comment="200837"][quote comment="200481"][quote comment="200474"]
    After the final tumultuous Ben vs Widmore battle where everything on the Island is destroyed, all 6 Dharma stations (or what’s left of them), New Otherton, the Temple, the dock, etc. ; all that’s left are Aaron (Adam) and Ji Yeon (Eve). Everyone else has been killed and everything has reverted back to “the beginning”.
    [quote]
    But Ji wasn’t born on the island.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That’s weird, your comment is “in shadow”

    Anyway, so what ?
    Ji wouldn’t necessarily have to have been born on the Island. She is the “immaculate conception”.[/quote]
    *******************

    Yes, she MAY have been concieved on the island, unless she isn’t Jin’s, which is still open to debate at this stage. If she WAS concieved on the island, I guess that still counts as belonging there.

  584. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200837"]Aaron and Ji[/quote]
    Awesome idea, this is the type of stuff I was asking for!

  585. Lins says:

    [quote comment="200878"]I was most intrigued by Tom telling Mike that “you still have work to do”… Same words Walt used to get John out of the ditch. I think this means the island was appearing to John as Walt. This contradicts my theory that Walt teleported to that scene. I think the island appeared to Hugo as Charlie too. The island must be a place that is like a bridge to “the other side”. This would explain why you can see dead people there. If there were such a place it might also exist within an area where timespace is out of synch — close to the edge so to speak. Where the living and the dead can co-exist. I’m starting to believe that Jacob is the island. It’s a place, but also a being.[/quote]

    Oooh…I like this theory…makes much more sense than the teleporting thing…also explains why John heard Jacob say, “help me”…if the island was going to be under attack?

  586. jaime says:

    [quote comment="200051"][quote comment="200037"]may seem silly , and i know its probably been asked before so no ridicule please :)
    When i reply to a comment, how do i do it so that my reply is bolder than what i am responding to….let’s hear the groans :)[/quote]
    In the upper right corner of the post is a gray “Quote and Reply”. Click on this and it will take you directly to the submit comment section (where you post), with the whole quote already in place. Type under it and when you submit it, it will be as you wish.[/quote]
    Thank you Rita

  587. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200978"][quote comment="200972"][quote comment="200837"][quote comment="200481"][quote comment="200474"]
    +++++++++++++
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++
    [/quote]
    *********************************

    [/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Is the “sun burning through the clouds” here and shedding some light on the series Finale ?

    After the final tumultuous Ben vs Widmore battle where everything on the Island is destroyed, all 6 Dharma stations (or what’s left of them), New Otherton, the Temple, the dock, etc. ; all that’s left are Aaron (Adam) and Ji Yeon (Eve). Everyone else has been killed and everything has reverted back to “the beginning”.

    Last Man/Woman standing
    First Man/Woman standing
    A new beginning![/quote]

    ********************************

    dukewm, I like your idea of the “sun shining through the clouds” to shed some light on the series finale. I think the Adam and Eve/new beginning idea is exactly what we can expect. Especially with the whole time travel/can you change the past/present/future concepts. But since whomever Adam and Eve turn out to be are already there when our losties arrive, I guess they couldn’t change anything and it becomes a continuous loop to be repeated. Not sure I like THAT idea and I hope that is NOT where they are going.

    In any case, I like your idea of a final great showdown between “good and evil” (if it ever becomes apparent who is who) where everything gets destroyed, nobody wins, and the island gets a fresh start.

    I am starting to think of the island as an entity of muliple consciousnesses, ie the whisperers. It is possibly THEY, rather than “the island” per se, who are able to interact with the living. Interesting.

    Back to Adam and Eve. Would they possibly be the “parents” of the original inhabitants, the “hostiles”, so say, Aaron and Ji Yeon (for example) would be the ancesters of Richard Alpert et al? Now there would be a full circle to come! Just thinking out loud.

  588. PJSander says:

    I know that the skeletons are referred to as Adam and Eve, but do we know for sure that they are one male and one female?

    Either way, what if the skeletons are ancestors of Widmore, Ben, Paik, Hanso, or the like? Maybe one is the skeleton of the Hanso that was on the Black Rock. Maybe an ancestor of Widmore or Ben was also on the Black Rock.

    Maybe I need to get a life *g*.

    : ) P

  589. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="200990"][quote comment="200878"]I was most intrigued by Tom telling Mike that “you still have work to do”… Same words Walt used to get John out of the ditch. I think this means the island was appearing to John as Walt. This contradicts my theory that Walt teleported to that scene. I think the island appeared to Hugo as Charlie too. The island must be a place that is like a bridge to “the other side”. This would explain why you can see dead people there. If there were such a place it might also exist within an area where timespace is out of synch — close to the edge so to speak. Where the living and the dead can co-exist. I’m starting to believe that Jacob is the island. It’s a place, but also a being.[/quote]

    Oooh…I like this theory…makes much more sense than the teleporting thing…also explains why John heard Jacob say, “help me”…if the island was going to be under attack?[/quote]
    Circus Mom already brought up a similar theory in the Ji Yeon thread some around comment 460…

  590. Rita says:

    [quote comment="200994"]I know that the skeletons are referred to as Adam and Eve, but do we know for sure that they are one male and one female?

    Either way, what if the skeletons are ancestors of Widmore, Ben, Paik, Hanso, or the like? Maybe one is the skeleton of the Hanso that was on the Black Rock. Maybe an ancestor of Widmore or Ben was also on the Black Rock.

    Maybe I need to get a life *g*.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Yes, Jack said they were male and female. He would be able to tell (I hope). There were some rocks, black and white (symbolic?), placed with the skeletons though and I am interested in these. Does anyone know exactly where they were placed? I am going to go back and watch this part again. Could be important, if the black or white were by the male or female. A clue to who they might be, as in who is black/evil and who is white/good?

  591. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201007"][quote comment="200994"]I know that the skeletons are referred to as Adam and Eve, but do we know for sure that they are one male and one female?

    Either way, what if the skeletons are ancestors of Widmore, Ben, Paik, Hanso, or the like? Maybe one is the skeleton of the Hanso that was on the Black Rock. Maybe an ancestor of Widmore or Ben was also on the Black Rock.

    Maybe I need to get a life *g*.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Yes, Jack said they were male and female. He would be able to tell (I hope). There were some rocks, black and white (symbolic?), placed with the skeletons though and I am interested in these. Does anyone know exactly where they were placed? I am going to go back and watch this part again. Could be important, if the black or white were by the male or female. A clue to who they might be, as in who is black/evil and who is white/good?[/quote]
    ***********************
    OK, just rewatched the Adam and Eve episode S1E6 and of course it wasn’t as simple as I had hoped. The black and white rocks were toether in a small pouch that was on one of the bodies. Jack DOES say that one of them is female. He says, “it takes 40 to 50 years for clothing to degrade like this”. He also says it looks like someone placed them there. Then Locke says, “it looks like we have our own Adam and Eve”. So, what does this mean? Not a clue. Anyone else?

  592. skweez says:

    [quote comment="201015"][quote comment="201007"][quote comment="200994"]I know that the skeletons are referred to as Adam and Eve, but do we know for sure that they are one male and one female?

    Either way, what if the skeletons are ancestors of Widmore, Ben, Paik, Hanso, or the like? Maybe one is the skeleton of the Hanso that was on the Black Rock. Maybe an ancestor of Widmore or Ben was also on the Black Rock.

    Maybe I need to get a life *g*.

    : ) PYes, Jack said they were male and female. He would be able to tell (I hope). There were some rocks, black and white (symbolic?), placed with the skeletons though and I am interested in these. Does anyone know exactly where they were placed? I am going to go back and watch this part again. Could be important, if the black or white were by the male or female. A clue to who they might be, as in who is black/evil and who is white/good?[/quote]
    ***********************
    OK, just rewatched the Adam and Eve episode S1E6 and of course it wasn’t as simple as I had hoped. The black and white rocks were toether in a small pouch that was on one of the bodies. Jack DOES say that one of them is female. He says, “it takes 40 to 50 years for clothing to degrade like this”. He also says it looks like someone placed them there. Then Locke says, “it looks like we have our own Adam and Eve”. So, what does this mean? Not a clue. Anyone else?[/quote]
    [/quote]

    I am SO confused as to the Adam and Eve situation. I’ve watched the episode atleast 5 times and can not understand how D&C will bring it into the story line. Especially, since they said that people will point to this episode and say, “they weren’t making it up as they went along”. Can these people be from the future? Is Jack wrong in guesstimating the time it takes for the clothes to disentigrate?

  593. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="200449"][quote comment="200447"][quote comment="200400"]*********************

    I believe that after Michael fails in his mission (gets killed maybe?) that Sayiid picks up for him and takes over. I don’t know yet WHO is more evil, Widmore or Linus, but I think it would be better to not trust either one.[/quote]
    I agree Rita. Sayid likely takes over when/if he gets back to the island and Ben informs Sayid he just got rid of the man who is helping keep the Losties alive…[/quote]
    *************
    Yes, exactly. It would be the only thing that I could think of that would make Sayid work for Ben. Problem is, once you get started, where does it end? Ben is brilliant at mind games.[/quote]
    **************
    My first thought was that Widmore (or whoever Ben is really at war with) kills Nadia. This would “prove” to Sayid that Ben was on the right side and he would join him.

  594. skweez says:

    [quote comment="201018"][quote comment="200449"][quote comment="200447"][quote comment="200400"]*********************

    I believe that after Michael fails in his mission (gets killed maybe?) that Sayiid picks up for him and takes over. I don’t know yet WHO is more evil, Widmore or Linus, but I think it would be better to not trust either one.I agree Rita. Sayid likely takes over when/if he gets back to the island and Ben informs Sayid he just got rid of the man who is helping keep the Losties alive…[/quote]
    *************
    Yes, exactly. It would be the only thing that I could think of that would make Sayid work for Ben. Problem is, once you get started, where does it end? Ben is brilliant at mind games.[/quote]
    **************
    My first thought was that Widmore (or whoever Ben is really at war with) kills Nadia. This would “prove” to Sayid that Ben was on the right side and he would join him.[/quote][/quote]

    So, what is the reason that Widmore kills Nadia? I assume this happens once they are “rescued”.

  595. skweez says:

    [quote comment="200543"]My first post. Long time lurker.
    Regarding the shooting of Rousseau, Karl and maybe Alex: Any thoughts as to whether this “shooting” is similar to the “Sleeping Darts” that hit Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley at the end of season two? It didn’t sound like gunshots and although there was a hole in the water bottle it did not look shattered as if a bullet had gone through it.
    If the Others had such good sharp shooters, why would they have tried to recruit Juliet to do the killing of Faraday and Charlotte at the Tempest? Why not get the shooters of Alex etc to kill Faraday? The Others knew where the Freighties were going, so why get a third (possibly unreliable) party involved?
    Great blog – love to read the theories.[/quote]

    That is EXACTLY what I thought. Maybe I just assumed this because my first thought was that it was the Others and it sounded somewhat different than a silencer…..

  596. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="201020"][quote comment="201018"][quote comment="200449"][quote comment="200447"][quote comment="200400"]*********************

    I believe that after Michael fails in his mission (gets killed maybe?) that Sayiid picks up for him and takes over. I don’t know yet WHO is more evil, Widmore or Linus, but I think it would be better to not trust either one.I agree Rita. Sayid likely takes over when/if he gets back to the island and Ben informs Sayid he just got rid of the man who is helping keep the Losties alive…[/quote]
    *************
    Yes, exactly. It would be the only thing that I could think of that would make Sayid work for Ben. Problem is, once you get started, where does it end? Ben is brilliant at mind games.[/quote]
    **************
    My first thought was that Widmore (or whoever Ben is really at war with) kills Nadia. This would “prove” to Sayid that Ben was on the right side and he would join him.[/quote][/quote]

    So, what is the reason that Widmore kills Nadia? I assume this happens once they are “rescued”.[/quote]

    *************
    No clue why. But in The Economist, Sayid tells Ben (on island) “Forgive me, but the day I start trusting him is the day I would have sold my soul.”

    So what would make Sayid sell his soul? The strongest argument I could think of was Widmore killing Nadia.

  597. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="200129"]WOooooooo GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been going through season 2 finale ONCE AGAON and I FOUND A REMARKABLE ELEMENT!!!!!!!!

    Hate to even think but, I think…

    Penny wildmore was instrumental in getting the island coordinates to her dad, charles widmore.

    with her will or without.

    remember? when the season 2 ended, the scientists in Antarctica found an electromagnetic incident and reported to our penny?

    so i hate to wonder, but can she become part of all of this too?

    i mean it explains, why then soon afterwards:-

    1) they find the plane wreck and a freighter is sent to find the island!!!!!!! – cuz widmore got the coordinates from that scientists/or penny who analyzed and noted the incident in Antarctica and staged the scne and got ready to infiltrate into the island on the new found information…

    what do you guys think about it?

    And very good points circus mom on micheal :)[/quote]
    I don’t think this is a big stretch (Penny getting Daddy the coordinates). My only question would be how/why do they (Widmores) connect Desmond with Flight 815? Both of them disappeared?

  598. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="200640"][quote comment="200626"]oh yeah,
    somewhere way back in this weeks discussion someone answered my question on this seasons schedule and claimed to know that beginning April 24th they were going to air only 5 of the originally planned 8 more episodes. Then, the 3 would be “made up” during S5 and S6.

    I’m wondering, first of all, is that confirmed information by ABC ? . . .
    and if so, wouldn’t that really screw up the flow of events ? . . .
    i.e. how can they just stop at the end of S3E13, take an 8 month layoff and then begin S5 with S4E14 ? . . .
    unless of course that IS a very good place to end S3.

    Anybody know whether ABC has formally announced their “air schedule” ?[/quote]

    To confirm what Hammer said, and paraphrase D&C:

    We will have five more episodes in this season which will finish this arc of this season’s story.

    Over the remaining two seasons, we will have a total of 35 (16 + 16 + the “missing” 3) more episodes, which gives us the complete 48 we were promised at the end of Season Three. Those three episodes will not be part of Season Four, but rather extra episodes in Season Five, or Six, or split between them.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I think I need to re-listen to that podcast, but my recollection is that the 8 S4 episodes will be condensed to 5, and that the other two seasons will STILL be 16 episodes, but will have the other 3 hours added into them? (Maybe a couple 2-hour things?) Lostpedia doesn’t have the transcripts….I’ll try and listen now.

  599. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201017"][quote comment="201015"][quote comment="201007"][quote comment="200994"]: ) ***********************
    OK, just rewatched the Adam and Eve episode S1E6 and of course it wasn’t as simple as I had hoped. The black and white rocks were toether in a small pouch that was on one of the bodies. Jack DOES say that one of them is female. He says, “it takes 40 to 50 years for clothing to degrade like this”. He also says it looks like someone placed them there. Then Locke says, “it looks like we have our own Adam and Eve”. So, what does this mean? Not a clue. Anyone else?[/quote]
    [/quote]

    I am SO confused as to the Adam and Eve situation. I’ve watched the episode atleast 5 times and can not understand how D&C will bring it into the story line. Especially, since they said that people will point to this episode and say, “they weren’t making it up as they went along”. Can these people be from the future? Is Jack wrong in guesstimating the time it takes for the clothes to disentigrate?[/quote]
    *************************

    I was starting to think it might be significant that Locke said, “it looks like we have OUR OWN Adam and Eve”, like the skeletons were going to turn out to be related to THEM (collectively). In light of the time travel eventuality, I would think it likely that A&E are from the future, are part of their group in some way, traveled back in time somehow, and died on the island. Jack said though that it looked like they were placed there, so that becomes the question: Who was there to place them? Who cared enough about them to do that? I would guess it would be the whisperers.

  600. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="200878"]
    I was most intrigued by Tom telling Mike that “you still have work to do”… Same words Walt used to get John out of the ditch. I think this means the island was appearing to John as Walt. This contradicts my theory that Walt teleported to that scene. I think the island appeared to Hugo as Charlie too. The island must be a place that is like a bridge to “the other side”. This would explain why you can see dead people there. If there were such a place it might also exist within an area where timespace is out of synch — close to the edge so to speak. Where the living and the dead can co-exist. I’m starting to believe that Jacob is the island. It’s a place, but also a being.[/quote]
    When you talk about “the island appearing” to people, is this different than what the smoke monster does? My take is that when we’ve seen Walt’s mysterious appearances, that was a manifestation of the smoke monster, similar to the appearances of Christian and Yemi. Charlie’s appearance to Hurley off-island could also be a manifestation of Smokey (but my personal opinion is that Hurely was imagining seeing Charlie). And in this regard, Smokey is part of the island’s essence.

    And yes, like Tom, Ben has also talked about the island in ways that make it seem like he considers is a “being”.

  601. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201031"][quote comment="200878"]
    I was most intrigued by Tom telling Mike that “you still have work to do”… Same words Walt used to get John out of the ditch. I think this means the island was appearing to John as Walt. This contradicts my theory that Walt teleported to that scene. I think the island appeared to Hugo as Charlie too. The island must be a place that is like a bridge to “the other side”. This would explain why you can see dead people there. If there were such a place it might also exist within an area where timespace is out of synch — close to the edge so to speak. Where the living and the dead can co-exist. I’m starting to believe that Jacob is the island. It’s a place, but also a being.[/quote]
    When you talk about “the island appearing” to people, is this different than what the smoke monster does? My take is that when we’ve seen Walt’s mysterious appearances, that was a manifestation of the smoke monster, similar to the appearances of Christian and Yemi. Charlie’s appearance to Hurley off-island could also be a manifestation of Smokey (but my personal opinion is that Hurely was imagining seeing Charlie). And in this regard, Smokey is part of the island’s essence.

    And yes, like Tom, Ben has also talked about the island in ways that make it seem like he considers is a “being”.[/quote]
    *******************
    But the other patient at the hospital also saw Charlie. Not Hurley’s imagination then?

  602. jaime says:

    This is what they have to say when asked about Adam and Eve

    CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the Island. We don’t want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in “Not in Portland”, one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.
    LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living—or, I guess, slowly decomposing—proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, “That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.”

    Does anyone know what the anagram was from “Not in Portland”???

  603. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201034"][quote comment="201031"][quote comment="200878"]
    [/quote]
    Charlie’s appearance to Hurley off-island could also be a manifestation of Smokey (but my personal opinion is that Hurely was imagining seeing Charlie). And in this regard, Smokey is part of the island’s essence.

    And yes, like Tom, Ben has also talked about the island in ways that make it seem like he considers is a “being”.[/quote]
    *******************
    But the other patient at the hospital also saw Charlie. Not Hurley’s imagination then?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I agree with Rita, not Hugo’s imagination. Again, there is the thought that people THINK they are crazy because they see and here dead people. Hurley would THINK he is crazy if this IS happening to him, especially with his past.

    Also Hugo saw the cabin. How would he be able to imagine the same cabin Locke saw? He would have to get a very detailed story from Locke in order to conjure up the same cabin. Smokey and the whisperers are involved IMO.

  604. jaime says:

    That info was from Lostpedia

  605. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201038"]This is what they have to say when asked about Adam and Eve

    CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the Island. We don’t want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in “Not in Portland”, one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.
    LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living—or, I guess, slowly decomposing—proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, “That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.”

    Does anyone know what the anagram was from “Not in Portland”???[/quote]
    Mittlose or Lost Time

  606. Rita says:

    Well, Mittelos (Bioscience) is introduced in “Not in Portland”, and Mittelos is an anagram for lost time. Possibly this was meant as an intro to the larger mythology of time distortion/travel. Not sure how this would shed any light on the skeletons though, so it may be something else.

  607. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201045"]
    Does anyone know what the anagram was from “Not in Portland”???[/quote]
    Mittlose or Lost Time[/quote]
    +++++++
    It’s Mittlelos(lost time) Bioscience that Alpert claimed he worked for when recruiting Juliet to the island.

  608. jaime says:

    perfect, thank you

    In further researching the black and white stones i came upon something interesteing regarding Magnus Hanso..(from Lostpedia)
    Magnus was one of the greatest alchemists of all time, and was also the discoverer of the legendary “Philosopher’s Stone” (which could allegedly be combined with certain metals to create a youth-preserving elixir; that would make its general objective similar to that of the Life Extension Project) and the creator of a supernatural device, an automaton which he named “Android”. Using the “…angels from the netherworld…” and the powers of the Philosopher’s Stone, he created “metals and material unknown to this world…” and chose them “according to the stars and planets…”. This “android” was instilled with the powers of speech, thought, and according to some reports, a soul. Upon completion of this project, his student St. Thomas Aquinas destroyed the “diabolic being” and denounced it as “…a tool of Satan and a blasphemy to God.”
    The “android” could be linked to the Security System.
    Magnus, alias Magnus Lehnsherr, is a member of the Exiles, a group of alternate reality X-Men from the Marvel comic of the same name.
    One of his superpowers is the control of electromagnetic energy.

    could the black and white stones be related to the “philosophers stone?

  609. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="201034"]
    But the other patient at the hospital also saw Charlie. Not Hurley’s imagination then?[/quote]
    Well, this is just my interpretation and it may very well be wrong. I had written about this in the thread for The Beginning of the End, and I don’t think there too many people agreeing with me so I probably am wrong, but here goes nothing:

    My thinking is that at the time of that scene at the hospital, Hurley was feeling incredibly guilty about something related to them leaving the island – I think this fact is pretty well accepted, however, we don’t know yet exactly why he feels guilty. So when Charlie appears, I believe it’s Hurley’s conscience telling him things like “they need you”, and this is similar to the way Hurley had that imaginary friend Dave.

    The other patient at the hospital isn’t necessarily a good source of information. I think that one of 2 things happened: 1)that patient may have imagined seeing someone looking at Hurley, and then that caused Hurley’s “hallucination”; or 2) Hurley imagined the other patient, and imagined that patient telling him about the equally imaginary Charlie.

    There’s a couple other reasons I think he imagined Charlie’s appearance. One is that when Hurley was being interrogated by the cop, he imagined that there was water on the other side of the two-way mirror and Charlie swam up to him and broke the glass, so he was imagnining seeing Charlie in that scene. Also, we were shown the surveillance tape of Hurley freaking out in the convenience store, and the cop asked Hurely who he saw – it seems like whoever was in the store would have had to pass across the view of the camera, so as part of their investigation the cops would have looked over the entire tape and asked Hurley about each person that entered the store. But they didn’t do this and my interpretation of that is that there was noone else in the store at that time.

    Maybe I’m overanalyzing it all, but that’s my take.

  610. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201053"]perfect, thank you

    In further researching the black and white stones i came upon something interesteing regarding Magnus Hanso..(from Lostpedia)
    Magnus was one of the greatest alchemists of all time, and was also the discoverer of the legendary “Philosopher’s Stone” (which could allegedly be combined with certain metals to create a youth-preserving elixir; that would make its general objective similar to that of the Life Extension Project) and the creator of a supernatural device, an automaton which he named “Android”. Using the “…angels from the netherworld…” and the powers of the Philosopher’s Stone, he created “metals and material unknown to this world…” and chose them “according to the stars and planets…”. This “android” was instilled with the powers of speech, thought, and according to some reports, a soul. Upon completion of this project, his student St. Thomas Aquinas destroyed the “diabolic being” and denounced it as “…a tool of Satan and a blasphemy to God.”
    The “android” could be linked to the Security System.
    Magnus, alias Magnus Lehnsherr, is a member of the Exiles, a group of alternate reality X-Men from the Marvel comic of the same name.
    One of his superpowers is the control of electromagnetic energy.

    could the black and white stones be related to the “philosophers stone?[/quote]
    *************************
    Great research Jaime. But from my dim recollection of high school chemistry, the alchemists were seeking ways to turn other chemicals into gold. It never worked. There couldn’t really be a greatest alchemist then.
    However, with the normal suspension of reality needed for any tv show, we could go with Magnus discovering something else valuable in his search for gold, namely a “youth preserving elixir”, and then embarking upon a whole Life Preservation Project, and the rest of what you said. I do hope the answer isn’t as comic-booky as the Lostpedia explanation sounds. But the black and white stones might relate back to something like this.

  611. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="201054"]Hurley imagined the other patient, and imagined that patient telling him about the equally imaginary Charlie.[/quote]

    I fully admit it is foolhardy, but I still hold out hope that Charlie (with his already proven incredible lung capacity) was able to swim through the porthole and to the surface of the water in the season three finale (despite the fact that somewhere in the first season, he tells Jack he can’t swim!) and that he was ACTUALLY alive and talking to Hurley, but had to “play dead” (through coercion, agreement or self-preservation) which is why he said something like “I am dead and I am here.”

    : ) P

  612. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201054"][quote comment="201034"]
    But the other patient at the hospital also saw Charlie. Not Hurley’s imagination then?[/quote]
    …- it seems like whoever was in the store would have had to pass across the view of the camera, so as part of their investigation the cops would have looked over the entire tape and asked Hurley about each person that entered the store. But they didn’t do this and my interpretation of that is that there was noone else in the store at that time.

    Maybe I’m overanalyzing it all, but that’s my take.[/quote]
    *************************

    ToeKnee, for the sake of argument, could it be that the manifestation of Charlie might be only visable to “someone special” like Hurley? I mean, Hurley was also able to see Jacob’s cabin, while others presumably could not? Or if not due to “specialness”, then perhaps the manifestation of “the island” might only be visable to the ones it chooses at any given time, yet still be “real” as in not in ones imagination?

  613. skweez says:

    I know this should be posted under “The Constant” thread, but I fear I may not get an answer.

    Can someone tell me what it was that Sayid gave to Locke that allowed him to take Charlotte? I assumed it was Miles, but he was already in custody. Could it possibly have been some info that was given to him by Ben?

  614. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201046"]Well, Mittelos (Bioscience) is introduced in “Not in Portland”, and Mittelos is an anagram for lost time. Possibly this was meant as an intro to the larger mythology of time distortion/travel. Not sure how this would shed any light on the skeletons though, so it may be something else.[/quote]
    Since it clues you in to time travel, you COULD deduce that A&E are from past, present or future. Since it will help prove that this was something we can look back at and say it wasn’t made up, it doesn’t help us to know who they are.

  615. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201060"]I know this should be posted under “The Constant” thread, but I fear I may not get an answer.

    Can someone tell me what it was that Sayid gave to Locke that allowed him to take Charlotte? I assumed it was Miles, but he was already in custody. Could it possibly have been some info that was given to him by Ben?[/quote]
    Miles wasn’t in Sayid’s custody, he came along of his own free will. He was then in Locke’s custody as a result of a “trade” of Charlotte for Miles, which Miles probably didn’t fight too hard since in Eggtown he told Kate he was exactly where he wanted to be.

  616. jaime says:

    [quote comment="201060"]I know this should be posted under “The Constant” thread, but I fear I may not get an answer.

    Can someone tell me what it was that Sayid gave to Locke that allowed him to take Charlotte? I assumed it was Miles, but he was already in custody. Could it possibly have been some info that was given to him by Ben?[/quote

    It was Kate

  617. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="201059"]
    ToeKnee, for the sake of argument, could it be that the manifestation of Charlie might be only visable to “someone special” like Hurley? I mean, Hurley was also able to see Jacob’s cabin, while others presumably could not? Or if not due to “specialness”, then perhaps the manifestation of “the island” might only be visable to the ones it chooses at any given time, yet still be “real” as in not in ones imagination?[/quote]
    Yes that is certainly possible, and it’s why I don’t rule out the possibility that Charlie’s appearances in TBOTE were a manifestation of Smokey.

    Regarding the cabin, I agree Hurley did indeed see it. But apparently the cabin itself has the ability to appear/disappear when it wants, or shield itself when it wants. So when the whole group of Losties heading to the Barracks came across the location of the cabin, none of them could see it, not even Locke, Ben, or Hurley.

  618. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201056"]
    *************************
    Great research Jaime. But from my dim recollection of high school chemistry, the alchemists were seeking ways to turn other chemicals into gold. It never worked. There couldn’t really be a greatest alchemist then.
    However, with the normal suspension of reality needed for any tv show, we could go with Magnus discovering something else valuable in his search for gold, namely a “youth preserving elixir”, and then embarking upon a whole Life Preservation Project, and the rest of what you said. I do hope the answer isn’t as comic-booky as the Lostpedia explanation sounds. But the black and white stones might relate back to something like this.[/quote]
    This from Meriam-Webster:
    1 : a medieval chemical science and speculative philosophy aiming to achieve the transmutation of the base metals into gold, the discovery of a universal cure for disease, and the discovery of a means of indefinitely prolonging life 2 : a power or process of transforming something common into something special 3 : an inexplicable or mysterious transmuting.

    So I think that the “gold” part doesn’t apply so much as def. 2 or 3 since we know what DHARMA wanted the island for and assume they knew what Magnus Hanso did.

    Also, I need to ammend my whisper transcript where a whisperer said at the cabin when Hurley was there:

    Man: “Come to me, I need you. You’re an alchemist and uh…”

    I originally thought Dr. Artz, but maybe they were talking to Magnus Hanso himself.

  619. Miraks says:

    I think the stones are more like a representation of ying and yang- black and white- night and day… Ying and yang are not good vs. bad, but rather two opposite but complimentary sides of a whole. They are the two contradictory aspects that make up the universe.

  620. skweez says:

    [quote comment="201062"][quote comment="201060"]I know this should be posted under “The Constant” thread, but I fear I may not get an answer.

    Can someone tell me what it was that Sayid gave to Locke that allowed him to take Charlotte? I assumed it was Miles, but he was already in custody. Could it possibly have been some info that was given to him by Ben?
    Miles wasn’t in Sayid’s custody, he came along of his own free will. He was then in Locke’s custody as a result of a “trade” of Charlotte for Miles, which Miles probably didn’t fight too hard since in Eggtown he told Kate he was exactly where he wanted to be.[/quote][/quote]

    Yes, Miles was already in custody of Locke. So, how could Sayid use him as a bargaining chip?

    Jaime:

    Kate still had her gun, so she wasn’t it doesn’t seem that she was in anyone’s custody.

  621. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201066"]I think the stones are more like a representation of ying and yang- black and white- night and day… Ying and yang are not good vs. bad, but rather two opposite but complimentary sides of a whole. They are the two contradictory aspects that make up the universe.[/quote]
    So it is possible that neither Widmore and co. or Ben and co. are evil. Maybe both are just fighting for the power to control the island for the same end?

  622. skweez says:

    [quote comment="201070"][quote comment="201066"]I think the stones are more like a representation of ying and yang- black and white- night and day… Ying and yang are not good vs. bad, but rather two opposite but complimentary sides of a whole. They are the two contradictory aspects that make up the universe. So it is possible that neither Widmore and co. or Ben and co. are evil. Maybe both are just fighting for the power to control the island for the same end?[/quote][/quote]

    So, if that’s the case, it seems possible that A&E could be Ben and the Goodspeed girl. Ben representing the others and she representing the DHARMA intitiative. Both have motives to do something “goood” with the island but have different ways of achieving that “good”.

  623. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201072"]
    So, if that’s the case, it seems possible that A&E could be Ben and the Goodspeed girl. Ben representing the others and she representing the DHARMA intitiative. Both have motives to do something “goood” with the island but have different ways of achieving that “good”.[/quote]
    I’m diggin’ it.

  624. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201065"][quote comment="201056"]
    *************************
    Great research Jaime. But from my dim recollection of high school chemistry, the alchemists were seeking ways to turn other chemicals into gold. It never worked. There couldn’t really be a greatest alchemist then.
    However, with the normal suspension of reality needed for any tv show, we could go with Magnus discovering something else valuable in his search for gold, namely a “youth preserving elixir”, and then embarking upon a whole Life Preservation Project, and the rest of what you said. I do hope the answer isn’t as comic-booky as the Lostpedia explanation sounds. But the black and white stones might relate back to something like this.[/quote]
    This from Meriam-Webster:
    1 : a medieval chemical science and speculative philosophy aiming to achieve the transmutation of the base metals into gold, the discovery of a universal cure for disease, and the discovery of a means of indefinitely prolonging life

    2 : a power or process of transforming something common into something special

    3 : an inexplicable or mysterious transmuting.

    So I think that the “gold” part doesn’t apply so much as def. 2 or 3 since we know what DHARMA wanted the island for and assume they knew what Magnus Hanso did.

    Also, I need to ammend my whisper transcript where a whisperer said at the cabin when Hurley was there:

    Man: “Come to me, I need you. You’re an alchemist and uh…”

    I originally thought Dr. Artz, but maybe they were talking to Magnus Hanso himself.[/quote]
    *****************************

    Thanks Hammer! So much for my dim memory of HS Chemisty. And you are making me a believer in your whisper theory.

  625. Miraks says:

    Just a few thoughts-
    1- Locke’s mom told him that he was an “immaculate conception” sometime in season two I think
    2- the man Sawyer killed was not really Locke’s dad
    3- does Ben know who Locke’s real father is?
    4- Locke’s mom was in the same mental institution as Hurley and Libby
    Who is John Locke!

  626. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201064"][quote comment="201059"]
    [/quote]
    …Regarding the cabin, I agree Hurley did indeed see it. But apparently the cabin itself has the ability to appear/disappear when it wants, or shield itself when it wants. So when the whole group of Losties heading to the Barracks came across the location of the cabin, none of them could see it, not even Locke, Ben, or Hurley.[/quote]
    ************************

    Or, the cabin isn’t merely not visable when it wants to be, but is REALLY NOT THERE, and is able to move about at will. Remember that Hurley thought the cabin was in another direction altogether when Locke set off to look for it. If the cabin is a manafestation of “the island/smoky/whisperers”, then it isn’t always visable (to ANYONE), but chooses its time and place.

  627. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="201054"][quote comment="201034"]
    But the other patient at the hospital also saw Charlie. Not Hurley’s imagination then?[/quote]
    Well, this is just my interpretation and it may very well be wrong. I had written about this in the thread for The Beginning of the End, and I don’t think there too many people agreeing with me so I probably am wrong, but here goes nothing:

    My thinking is that at the time of that scene at the hospital, Hurley was feeling incredibly guilty about something related to them leaving the island – I think this fact is pretty well accepted, however, we don’t know yet exactly why he feels guilty. So when Charlie appears, I believe it’s Hurley’s conscience telling him things like “they need you”, and this is similar to the way Hurley had that imaginary friend Dave.

    The other patient at the hospital isn’t necessarily a good source of information. I think that one of 2 things happened: 1)that patient may have imagined seeing someone looking at Hurley, and then that caused Hurley’s “hallucination”; or 2) Hurley imagined the other patient, and imagined that patient telling him about the equally imaginary Charlie.

    There’s a couple other reasons I think he imagined Charlie’s appearance. One is that when Hurley was being interrogated by the cop, he imagined that there was water on the other side of the two-way mirror and Charlie swam up to him and broke the glass, so he was imagnining seeing Charlie in that scene. Also, we were shown the surveillance tape of Hurley freaking out in the convenience store, and the cop asked Hurely who he saw – it seems like whoever was in the store would have had to pass across the view of the camera, so as part of their investigation the cops would have looked over the entire tape and asked Hurley about each person that entered the store. But they didn’t do this and my interpretation of that is that there was noone else in the store at that time.

    Maybe I’m overanalyzing it all, but that’s my take.[/quote]
    When Jack saw Christian in the water after trying to save Johanna Kate couldn’t see him. In fact, only Jack saw his dad each time even though there were other losties around. Perhaps they appear selectivily.

  628. jaime says:

    [quote comment="201076"]Just a few thoughts-
    1- Locke’s mom told him that he was an “immaculate conception” sometime in season two I think
    2- the man Sawyer killed was not really Locke’s dad
    3- does Ben know who Locke’s real father is?
    4- Locke’s mom was in the same mental institution as Hurley and Libby
    Who is John Locke![/quote]

    Wasn’t Locke’s real father Anthony Cooper?

  629. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="201076"]Just a few thoughts-
    1- Locke’s mom told him that he was an “immaculate conception” sometime in season two I think
    2- the man Sawyer killed was not really Locke’s dad
    3- does Ben know who Locke’s real father is?
    4- Locke’s mom was in the same mental institution as Hurley and Libby
    Who is John Locke![/quote]
    He was really Locke’s dad. He was a match for the kidney transplant.

  630. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201086"]Also, we were shown the surveillance tape of Hurley freaking out in the convenience store, and the cop asked Hurely who he saw – it seems like whoever was in the store would have had to pass across the view of the camera, so as part of their investigation the cops would have looked over the entire tape and asked Hurley about each person that entered the store. But they didn’t do this and my interpretation of that is that there was noone else in the store at that time.

    Maybe I’m overanalyzing it all, but that’s my take.[/quote]
    When Jack saw Christian in the water after trying to save Johanna Kate couldn’t see him. In fact, only Jack saw his dad each time even though there were other losties around. Perhaps they appear selectivily.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    There’s this with Kate and her black horse:

    # Kate first encountered the horse after being captured by the Marshal at a bus station while she was buying a ticket to Tallahassee, FL. The horse was standing in the middle of the road and caused the marshal to swerve and hit a tree, allowing Kate to escape.
    # She sees the horse (or one identical to it) a second time, while picking fruit on the Island.
    # After leading Sawyer out of the Swan for a breath of fresh air (he had been close to death from septic poisoning), they both see the horse.

    Maybe since they both saw the horse, it is possible that more than one person can see the appearance.

    Also, (assuming that Harper was a manifestation because she was accompanied by whispers) Juliet and Jack both saw Harper (I know she’s not dead, but neither is Walt and we can assume his appearance are manifestations too.)

  631. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="201045"][quote comment="201038"]This is what they have to say when asked about Adam and Eve

    CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the Island. We don’t want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in “Not in Portland”, one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.
    LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living—or, I guess, slowly decomposing—proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, “That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.”

    Does anyone know what the anagram was from “Not in Portland”???[/quote]
    Mittlose or Lost Time[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Lost time is what occures when traveling to and from the island. It takes 1 hour to travel but 10 hours pass. Or the rocket should take 3 minutes to travel but 30 minutes instead.

  632. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201075"]
    Thanks Hammer! So much for my dim memory of HS Chemisty. And you are making me a believer in your whisper theory.[/quote]
    Cool. Now if the Whisper Theory ship/freighter/boat goes down, there will at least be a party.

  633. RGS says:

    Does anyone have an exact reference of when an ABC promotion for the show has been inaccurate? I was formally of the belief that they were just writing those to draw viewers in, and they did not necessarily have to be accurate. Now with Aaron being an O6 member, I would like to believe that the promotions are accurate.

    Thus, I do not think that Danielle Rousseau is dead, because the promo said someONE would die. It could be Karl, but since we don’t know much about him, I’m going with Danielle being alive.

    Something wants me to believe Ben’s evil azz is actually Alex’s father, but I just can’t put it together as far as Danielle and Ben. I would hope that if it is the case, they will have a tight storyline with it, and just not something that gives viewers as much creative license to speculate as we had to do with Mike/KJ.

  634. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="201097"]Does anyone have an exact reference of when an ABC promotion for the show has been inaccurate? I was formally of the belief that they were just writing those to draw viewers in, and they did not necessarily have to be accurate. Now with Aaron being an O6 member, I would like to believe that the promotions are accurate.

    Thus, I do not think that Danielle Rousseau is dead, because the promo said someONE would die. It could be Karl, but since we don’t know much about him, I’m going with Danielle being alive.

    Something wants me to believe Ben’s evil azz is actually Alex’s father, but I just can’t put it together as far as Danielle and Ben. I would hope that if it is the case, they will have a tight storyline with it, and just not something that gives viewers as much creative license to speculate as we had to do with Mike/KJ.[/quote]
    The biggest incident that comes to my mind is the preview for the dreadful Bai Ling/Jack’s tattoo’s episode. The preview said we’d get answers to 3 of the show’s biggest mysteries (or something along those lines). One answer was how/where/when Jack got his tattoos. To imply that this was a mystery that we viewers were expecting an answer to is a huge overstatement. Another is what happened to Cindy and the kids kidnapped by the Others. Well, other than showing that Cindy and the kids were still alive and living with the Others, they didn’t really give us much of an answer to that mystery. I don’t remember what the third “answer” was, but I don’t think it was related to anything we were really dying to find out about.

  635. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201097"]Does anyone have an exact reference of when an ABC promotion for the show has been inaccurate? [/quote]
    Not inaccurate, but misleading. By editing words of the announcer lined up with video, they can mislead us. For example the first promo at the top of this thread:

    “Next Thursday….someone…will…die.” They showed Clair, Des, Michael, Juliet, Jin characters while the annoucer was saying that…none of which died in the episode.

  636. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201103"][quote comment="201097"]Does anyone have an exact reference of when an ABC promotion for the show has been inaccurate? [/quote]
    Not inaccurate, but misleading. By editing words of the announcer lined up with video, they can mislead us. For example the first promo at the top of this thread:

    “Next Thursday….someone…will…die.” They showed Clair, Des, Michael, Juliet, Jin characters while the annoucer was saying that…none of which died in the episode.[/quote]
    BTW, I think they showed Jin because we all are waiting to see how/if Jin dies from the Ji Yeon episode.

  637. Hammer says:

    Podcast is out. I can finally declare victory that a person does not have to be on the manifest to be an O6 and Aaron is one!

    Also they did not rule out that Danielle’s sickness could be the same as the Minkowski side effects.

    And…very interesting comments on apparitions/monster appearances.

  638. TreyBostib says:

    Did any one notice that the music that Michael was playing, when he tried to commit suicide in his car? “Make Your Own Kind of Music” was a Mama Cass hit. I believe it is the same song that was played, when Desmond was introduced in the bunker. I don’t think there is any significance. However, I thought it was odd that an urban African American would play the song as his ‘last’.

  639. TreyBoston says:

    Opps…Did any one notice that the music that Michael was playing, when he tried to commit suicide in his car? “Make Your Own Kind of Music” was a Mama Cass hit. I believe it is the same song that was played, when Desmond was introduced in the bunker. I don’t think there is any significance. However, I thought it was odd that an urban African American would play the song as his ‘last’.

  640. jaime says:

    [quote comment="201101"][quote comment="201097"]Does anyone have an exact reference of when an ABC promotion for the show has been inaccurate? I was formally of the belief that they were just writing those to draw viewers in, and they did not necessarily have to be accurate. Now with Aaron being an O6 member, I would like to believe that the promotions are accurate.

    Thus, I do not think that Danielle Rousseau is dead, because the promo said someONE would die. It could be Karl, but since we don’t know much about him, I’m going with Danielle being alive.

    Something wants me to believe Ben’s evil azz is actually Alex’s father, but I just can’t put it together as far as Danielle and Ben. I would hope that if it is the case, they will have a tight storyline with it, and just not something that gives viewers as much creative license to speculate as we had to do with Mike/KJ.[/quote]
    The biggest incident that comes to my mind is the preview for the dreadful Bai Ling/Jack’s tattoo’s episode. The preview said we’d get answers to 3 of the show’s biggest mysteries (or something along those lines). One answer was how/where/when Jack got his tattoos. To imply that this was a mystery that we viewers were expecting an answer to is a huge overstatement. Another is what happened to Cindy and the kids kidnapped by the Others. Well, other than showing that Cindy and the kids were still alive and living with the Others, they didn’t really give us much of an answer to that mystery. I don’t remember what the third “answer” was, but I don’t think it was related to anything we were really dying to find out about.[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Maybe it was the meaning of his tattoo..if i remember right it’s something like: He walks amoung us but is not one of us
    the tattoo artitst could “see the person” and then would give them a tatto with meaning of what she saw. Not sure how this would be significant though

  641. jaime says:

    [quote comment="201113"]Did any one notice that the music that Michael was playing, when he tried to commit suicide in his car? “Make Your Own Kind of Music” was a Mama Cass hit. I believe it is the same song that was played, when Desmond was introduced in the bunker. I don’t think there is any significance. However, I thought it was odd that an urban African American would play the song as his ‘last’.[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    “Make you own kind of music” is mainly tied to Desmond. We heard it in Season 2 premier as well as in a FB of his. The song deals ties in with free will vs. destiny

    The song “It’s getting better” also by Mama Cass was playing in Michael’s car

  642. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="201112"]Podcast is out. I can finally declare victory that a person does not have to be on the manifest to be an O6 and Aaron is one!

    Also they did not rule out that Danielle’s sickness could be the same as the Minkowski side effects.

    And…very interesting comments on apparitions/monster appearances.[/quote]
    Yes, I hadn’t thought that the monster and apparitions were separate entities, but I guess they are? Unless they, along with the whispers, are different components of the same entity (i.e., the island)?

  643. Bobola says:

    …but if I were Sayeed I’d hold my tongue and ponder a while before blowing up like a crazy Arab. [/quote]
    ********************

    Bobola, I live on Lake Huron where freighters pass by daily. The locals here often refer to them as “boats”, though they own actual “boats” and do know the difference. I think it just a general term of affection or familiarity, and not meant to affend anyone (like you).

    Your comment where you said “…before blowing up like a crazy Arab” was disrespectful to a whole group of people. I think respect for others is implied under “Be kind and helpful”, which is what I am sure you intended to be.[/quote]

    Take issue with it if you want but I”M SURE I have a LOT more Arabic friends than you do and they make plenty of comments about crazy Arabs. I’ve been in an Arabic Band even though I’m not Arabic..I study the culture and now it well. He blew a fuse, blew his temper; “blew up”…but you seem to take my meaning as the sort who blows up people with bombs. Your bad. You can take this political correctness as far as you like but I prefer to live in the real world where if I see something I will make an observation;
    Sayeed plays an Arab
    He Blew up (blew his cool)
    He acted crazy (by not thinking first and biding his time, AND waiting to see if the Captain is not as dangerous as any rational person might think he is!)
    Thus, I stand by my statement. No apologies.
    Shukran!

    I think I will mention boats again; just because Suzy on the Lake says it’s a boat when a ship passes by …doesn’t mean you won’t sound ignorant to someone who hears you if you do too ….
    The writers screwed up but if you’all wanna keep using the wrong word…please, go ahead. Words are only important if you make them so.
    And if people act crazy…or ignorant; let’s be polite and look the other way. Um-kay?

  644. Bobola says:

    In the previus Comment;
    MY COMMENTS START with the phrase;

    Take issue with it if you want ….

  645. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="201133"]In the previus Comment;
    MY COMMENTS START with the phrase;

    Take issue with it if you want ….[/quote]
    Bobola, You say “words are only inportant if you make them so.” Obviously the difference between ship and boat has been very inportant to you as you have corrected it several times. Because it is inportant to you, and “mostly” correct, I have made a effort to use ship.
    I do agree with Rita that your comment about “blowing up like a crazy Arab” would be seen as offensive by most people. I am sure that in the company of your Arab friends it is accepted because they know you and your intentions but the general public dose not. It actually sounds like something Sawyer would have said while accusing Sayid of blowing up the airplane.
    I have a lot a friends who are gay and can joke with them using terms like “fruit” or “fag” but would never use those words publicly or with the general public. When used privitly they know that I am actually making fun of the world that would use those things to degrade them.
    Words are inportant if “anyone” makes them so. We all have to be careful what we say.

  646. leah says:

    To Lost4ever,Dukewarm,Rita,Hammer and Trixanna, i ve fially finished watching every episode , read every article, i can find not a mention of these facts . yet i ve believed it my self for so long.. i am extremely sorry for misleading you all. i cannot think where the 108= 24hrs theory got into my head ..too many lima beans i expect. .I cannot apologize enough ,ll keep my mouth shut from now on.

  647. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201149"]To Lost4ever,Dukewarm,Rita,Hammer and Trixanna, i ve fially finished watching every episode , read every article, i can find not a mention of these facts . yet i ve believed it my self for so long.. i am extremely sorry for misleading you all. i cannot think where the 108= 24hrs theory got into my head ..too many lima beans i expect. .I cannot apologize enough ,ll keep my mouth shut from now on.[/quote]
    No problem, and don’t keep your mouth shut – you have plenty of good ideas.

  648. Trixanna says:

    Aww Leah! No need for an apology! Please keep posting. How disappointing for you that you have believed this for so long and possibly based your ideas on this falsehood! You must be very frustrated but please DO NOT STOP posting! You must be careful about the lima beans. I have long suspected that they could do harm to us! LOL!!!

  649. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201149"]To Lost4ever,Dukewarm,Rita,Hammer and Trixanna, i ve fially finished watching every episode , read every article, i can find not a mention of these facts . yet i ve believed it my self for so long.. i am extremely sorry for misleading you all. i cannot think where the 108= 24hrs theory got into my head ..too many lima beans i expect. .I cannot apologize enough ,ll keep my mouth shut from now on.[/quote]
    Don’t sweat it. If go through all the threads from the beginning of this blog like Circus Mom and Rita plan to do, you’ll find my many wrong memories. Keep on keepin’ on.

  650. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="201129"][quote comment="201112"]Podcast is out. I can finally declare victory that a person does not have to be on the manifest to be an O6 and Aaron is one!

    Also they did not rule out that Danielle’s sickness could be the same as the Minkowski side effects.

    And…very interesting comments on apparitions/monster appearances.[/quote]
    Yes, I hadn’t thought that the monster and apparitions were separate entities, but I guess they are? Unless they, along with the whispers, are different components of the same entity (i.e., the island)?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    I was figuring that they are part of same “island security system” for lack of a better name. Separate, but the same, as well as the whisperers. Someone mentioned before that since religeon has a big influence that maybe they are comparable to the holy trinity.

  651. PBX says:

    I thought this was a great episode. One of my favorites of this season so far.

  652. Hammer says:

    RE: Danielle’s shooting.

    I don’t know if she died or not, but I don’t think it much matters. I theozied last season that she has an important role because it doesn’t make sense that she was able to hang around on the island for 16 years with out some type of arrangement with the Others(Ben). And I’m sticking with that theory…dead or alive, we will find out more about Danielle. That cliffhanger from MKJ will mean something…

  653. skweez says:

    [quote comment="201195"]RE: Danielle’s shooting.

    I don’t know if she died or not, but I don’t think it much matters. I theozied last season that she has an important role because it doesn’t make sense that she was able to hang around on the island for 16 years with out some type of arrangement with the Others(Ben). And I’m sticking with that theory…dead or alive, we will find out more about Danielle. That cliffhanger from MKJ will mean something…[/quote]

    how do we know that Rosseau is telling the truth about her background? Could she possibly be one of the “hostiles” like ageless Richard?

  654. dukewm says:

    [quote comment="201149"]To Lost4ever,Dukewarm,Rita,Hammer and Trixanna, i ve fially finished watching every episode , read every article, i can find not a mention of these facts . yet i ve believed it my self for so long.. i am extremely sorry for misleading you all. i cannot think where the 108= 24hrs theory got into my head ..too many lima beans i expect. .I cannot apologize enough ,ll keep my mouth shut from now on.[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Keep it comin’ girl!

  655. dukewm says:

    Think I’ll sniff around for some more “puzzle pieces” on the Adam & Eve theme.
    Skeletons
    Time Travel
    Jacks’ “tat”
    Black vs White
    None of that seems to fit with Aaron & Ji

    Shutting Dow
    w
    w
    w
    n

  656. blakec says:

    I think Kate’s mom would have to be in the coffin. Jack calls Kate to say he is sorry for her loss. (We don’t know it’s Kate at the time, but later he meets up with Kate and says similar things). In the episode where Kate is on trial, her mother states that she only has months to live and indicates that she has been holding on to wait for Kate. Then, after Kate rejects her, we hear she has medical problems the next day at trial.

    Any of the O6, or even Ben for that matter, would have had someone show up. Since know one shows up, we can guess that the person isn’t one of the famous people.

    Jack, only asks who as been to the viewing. He doesn’t seem the least bit interested in the actual coffin. Soon after he calls Kate.

  657. MiraKS says:

    [quote comment="201076"]Just a few thoughts-
    1- Locke’s mom told him that he was an “immaculate conception” sometime in season two I think
    2- the man Sawyer killed was not really Locke’s dad
    3- does Ben know who Locke’s real father is?
    4- Locke’s mom was in the same mental institution as Hurley and Libby
    Who is John Locke![/quote]

    OK, I was wrong. People had been posting about Ji and a possible immaculate conception, and I knew I had heard that before on this show.

    The only valid point is that Hurley, Libby, and Locke’s mom (named Emily, same as Ben’s mom)were at the same mental institution.

  658. MiraKS says:

    Question. Several people have mentioned that we have heard both Ben and Widmore blamed for the fake 815. Now, I know Michael was shown papers to “prove” that Widmore staged 815. But, as far as Ben being blamed, the only thing I remember was a discussion between Sayied, Desmond, and the captain, where the captain talked about working for Widmore and about 815 having been found, dead bodies on board. He said that it takes someone with a lot of power to make that happen, and then said they were there to get Ben. Now I took it to mean that if someone as powerful as Mr. Widmore- who can make a whole plane of dead people appear at the bottom of the ocean- tells you, you got a mission, you don’t ask questions. It doesn’t matter if your crew goes crazy and starts shooting themselves, or jumping of the boat with chains wrappen around them, failure is not an option. You know that if you do not accomplish your mission, Mr. Widmore can make you dissepear.
    If there was another scene where Ben admitted to being responsible for fake 815, or it was clearly said that he was, remind me please!

  659. Laura G says:

    [quote comment="200474"]Well, 500 posts later we are running low on substance. This break is gonna suck.
    So, I bring up this quote from Damon since time travel had become more prevelant:
    “DAMON: It’s been in the DNA of the show since the very beginning. Obviously, one thing the flash backs and the flash forwards provide you with is the idea of time travel. You’re bouncing around in time and events from the past are seemingly influencing the present, but it’s not a traditional time travel story until we started talking about what the hatch was there for, and what this electromagnetic energy that the hatch is trying to contain is and what would be the effect of that hatch going away, otherwise known as the purple sky event. And it was sort of those conversations which obviously happened way back in season one when Locke and Boone found the hatch that were the early precursors of time travel. I will say, though, that the first significant event in the show where we were thinking in the back of our minds that this is going to require a story telling element that isn’t traditional narrative, is the discovery of Adam and Eve in the caves.”

    +++++++++++++
    Time to start working on who Adam and Eve are since time travel is a factor and it is possible that they found the bodies of someone who walks among them. Locke brought up to Walt when playing back gammon that it is the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, black vs. white. Is one of the folks a Whidmorian and the other a Benonite?[/quote]

    I love the idea that it’s Aaron & Ji, but…

    From what I understand of Time Travel as it’s been presented on the show so far (“side effects”), only ones consciousness is able to time travel — and only into your own body during a different time in your life. For instance, I would not be able to travel to Victorian England, but I would be able to go back in time to my own childhood. And your body does not literally go anywhere, so there would never be 2 of you running around somewhere. So, it seems like Adam & Eve couldn’t be people who are currently alive on the island.

    And yet I really want to believe it’s Aaron & Ji! That would be so satisfying. Anyone have any ideas on this?

  660. Laura G says:

    Just a random thought, what if Adam & Eve were descendants of the Black Rock folks… It is possible that some of the slaves survived as well as some of the crew, and ended up living on the island together by necessity. The black & white stones could represent the coming together of these two groups; maybe not in the 1st generation, but by the 2nd or 3rd? I forget how long Jack said the bodies had been there — 30 years? 50?

    But that would have nothing to do with Time Travel. Hmm…

  661. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="201249"]Question. Several people have mentioned that we have heard both Ben and Widmore blamed for the fake 815. Now, I know Michael was shown papers to “prove” that Widmore staged 815. But, as far as Ben being blamed, the only thing I remember was a discussion between Sayied, Desmond, and the captain, where the captain talked about working for Widmore and about 815 having been found, dead bodies on board. He said that it takes someone with a lot of power to make that happen, and then said they were there to get Ben. Now I took it to mean that if someone as powerful as Mr. Widmore- who can make a whole plane of dead people appear at the bottom of the ocean- tells you, you got a mission, you don’t ask questions. It doesn’t matter if your crew goes crazy and starts shooting themselves, or jumping of the boat with chains wrappen around them, failure is not an option. You know that if you do not accomplish your mission, Mr. Widmore can make you dissepear.
    If there was another scene where Ben admitted to being responsible for fake 815, or it was clearly said that he was, remind me please![/quote]
    I agree. I think Widmore did it and we were just misled.

  662. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201253"][quote comment="200474"] …..Is one of the folks a Whidmorian and the other a Benonite?[/quote]

    I love the idea that it’s Aaron & Ji, but…

    From what I understand of Time Travel as it’s been presented on the show so far (“side effects”), only ones consciousness is able to time travel — and only into your own body during a different time in your life. For instance, I would not be able to travel to Victorian England, but I would be able to go back in time to my own childhood. And your body does not literally go anywhere, so there would never be 2 of you running around somewhere. So, it seems like Adam & Eve couldn’t be people who are currently alive on the island.

    And yet I really want to believe it’s Aaron & Ji! That would be so satisfying. Anyone have any ideas on this?[/quote]
    *****************************
    You’re right that the only time travel we have seen PEOPLE do involves only the conscious. We did see though that Dharma was working on experiments with actual teleportation of animals (the #15 Rabbit, possibly the polar bear in Tunisia) so it is conceivable that the experiments did or could go further and teleport people. This is pure speculation at this point but it would allow A&E to be someone we know, like Aaron and Ji.

  663. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201249"]Question. Several people have mentioned that we have heard both Ben and Widmore blamed for the fake 815. Now, I know Michael was shown papers to “prove” that Widmore staged 815. But, as far as Ben being blamed, the only thing I remember was a discussion between Sayied, Desmond, and the captain, where the captain talked about working for Widmore and about 815 having been found, dead bodies on board. He said that it takes someone with a lot of power to make that happen, and then said they were there to get Ben. Now I took it to mean that if someone as powerful as Mr. Widmore- who can make a whole plane of dead people appear at the bottom of the ocean- tells you, you got a mission, you don’t ask questions. It doesn’t matter if your crew goes crazy and starts shooting themselves, or jumping of the boat with chains wrappen around them, failure is not an option. You know that if you do not accomplish your mission, Mr. Widmore can make you dissepear.
    If there was another scene where Ben admitted to being responsible for fake 815, or it was clearly said that he was, remind me please![/quote]
    ***********************
    I think you are correct that the only mention of Ben being responsible for the fake plane is when the captain implied that it was Ben. He did not actually SAY it was Ben, but the implication was there. Ben says it was Widmore who did it. I guess we will find out in a month (I hope).

  664. Circus Mom says:

    There are two identical stones on a table when Desmond falls off the ladder painting. Go to Dark UFO screencaps and look up Adam & Eve.

    Is everything that happens part of a game of Yin and Yang? http://senseis.xmp.net/?AncientChineseRulesAndPhilosophy

  665. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201235"]I think Kate’s mom would have to be in the coffin.

    Jack calls Kate to say he is sorry for her loss. (We don’t know it’s Kate at the time, but later he meets up with Kate and says similar things).

    In the episode where Kate is on trial, her mother states that she only has months to live and indicates that she has been holding on to wait for Kate. Then, after Kate rejects her, we hear she has medical problems the next day at trial.

    Any of the O6, or even Ben for that matter, would have had someone show up. Since know one shows up, we can guess that the person isn’t one of the famous people.

    Jack, only asks who as been to the viewing. He doesn’t seem the least bit interested in the actual coffin.

    Soon after he calls Kate.[/quote]
    I agree with your logic that it would not be an O6er in the “C” (didn’t say it!). This would also open the door for it being Michael. As for Kate’s mom, I don’t think the writers would do that to us, make it someone only peripherally related to the story so I see Jack’s comment to Kate (“sorry about your loss”) as a sort of red herring. He probably hasn’t talked to her in awhile, and her mom was ill and died since he did, so he thought he should mention it.

  666. deangoodes says:

    Before the “C” talk gets rolling again, I need to add two points. First, D & C have said that the person in the coffin is someone who hasn’t been on the show yet. And second, it is a man in the “C”; and there is a newspaper clipping with certain info on it, part of his name, one teenage kid, etc…..

  667. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="201326"][quote comment="201235"]I think Kate’s mom would have to be in the coffin.

    Jack calls Kate to say he is sorry for her loss. (We don’t know it’s Kate at the time, but later he meets up with Kate and says similar things).

    In the episode where Kate is on trial, her mother states that she only has months to live and indicates that she has been holding on to wait for Kate. Then, after Kate rejects her, we hear she has medical problems the next day at trial.

    Any of the O6, or even Ben for that matter, would have had someone show up. Since know one shows up, we can guess that the person isn’t one of the famous people.

    Jack, only asks who as been to the viewing. He doesn’t seem the least bit interested in the actual coffin.

    Soon after he calls Kate.[/quote]
    I agree with your logic that it would not be an O6er in the “C” (didn’t say it!). This would also open the door for it being Michael. As for Kate’s mom, I don’t think the writers would do that to us, make it someone only peripherally related to the story so I see Jack’s comment to Kate (“sorry about your loss”) as a sort of red herring. He probably hasn’t talked to her in awhile, and her mom was ill and died since he did, so he thought he should mention it.[/quote]
    ——————————
    I don’t think Jack ever says “sorry for your loss” to Kate. Or did I forget something?

  668. Rita says:

    [quote comment="201340"][quote comment="201326"][quote comment="201235"]I think Kate’s mom would have to be in the coffin.

    Jack calls Kate to say he is sorry for her loss. (We don’t know it’s Kate at the time, but later he meets up with Kate and says similar things).

    In the episode where Kate is on trial, her mother states that she only has months to live and indicates that she has been holding on to wait for Kate. Then, after Kate rejects her, we hear she has medical problems the next day at trial.

    Any of the O6, or even Ben for that matter, would have had someone show up. Since know one shows up, we can guess that the person isn’t one of the famous people.

    Jack, only asks who as been to the viewing. He doesn’t seem the least bit interested in the actual coffin.

    Soon after he calls Kate.[/quote]
    I agree with your logic that it would not be an O6er in the “C” (didn’t say it!). This would also open the door for it being Michael. As for Kate’s mom, I don’t think the writers would do that to us, make it someone only peripherally related to the story so I see Jack’s comment to Kate (“sorry about your loss”) as a sort of red herring. He probably hasn’t talked to her in awhile, and her mom was ill and died since he did, so he thought he should mention it.[/quote]
    ——