Lost Hiatus – Update

The hiatus blues have seriously kicked in after 8 fantastic episodes of Lost so far this season – now the wait starts again… Here are some interesting things happening in the Lost-world to keep your mind occupied (24 more days until Season 4 resumes!):

*Find815.com Part II – The Find815.com homepage was updated with the following message from Sam Thomas:

Not sleeping again.
Something’s still not right.

The reporters have stopped calling. Everyone is moving on. Flight 815 is a closed book for them. They think they have all the answers they need.

But I don’t…
S.T.

This could be an indication of a restart in the ARG – or a prelude to something we can expect at the conclusion of Season 4…

*The title of Episode 9 has been released by ABC – “The Shape of Things To Come”; there is also an episode description circulating out there that is a bit spoiler-esque, so I will leave it off of the blog until the EP preview in a few weeks – needless to say it looks to be awesome!

*Article in The Age about Season 4 – This article provides a pretty good recap of Season 4 thus far. I find the comment about Ben/Michael Emerson to be spot-on:

The greatest transformation, however, is happening with the nominal villain, Ben Linus (Michael Emerson). Lonely child, patricidal killer, manipulator and instigator of abduction and mass murder, he’s slowly evolving into the most important character on Lost. He creates confusion within confusion, but it’s increasingly unclear whether he’s a true believer or a malignant force.

Take “Meet Kevin Johnson” as the most recent example – where Ben once again flexes his truly unique manipulative powers – what a head case Michael must be now after that end-around!?!

Also, I would be interested in your thoughts about whether or not Ben was responsible for setting up Rousseau and Karl – and if not, then who do you think will ultimately be responsible for their (attempted) murders? There were some comments about this in the MKJ post – but I think it’s worth discussing a bit further.

DocH pointed out, rightfully so, the most subscribed to theory thus far:

Guess we won’t get the Rousseau FB after all (or Karl). Bet the target practice on the boat had the same shooters that dropped Danielle and Karl. HMMMMM? Karl and Danielle were the two that stood between Ben and Alex. How much do you want to bet that Ben is behind their deaths? You know… to get closer to Alex.

It’s possible Rousseau is still breathing – she has continued to find a way to survive on the Island for sometime (not quite as spectacularly as Patchy, but close). However, I’m not exactly sold on who the shooters were. Ben sent them off together, and I doubt he was crazy enough to do that had he not absolutely known Alex would be safe and the other two would be eliminated. So, what possibilities does that leave for the “who dunnit” in terms of trigger-pulling?

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291 Responses to Lost Hiatus – Update

  1. Circus Mom says:

    In meet Keven Johnson Michael had a flashback to the crew skeetshooting on the freighter and they rarely hit the target. I wonder if this was to show that is was one of the others who did the sharpshooting. Could it have been Sayid, doing his first dirtywork for Ben?

  2. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="204453"]In meet Keven Johnson Michael had a flashback to the crew skeetshooting on the freighter and they rarely hit the target. I wonder if this was to show that is was one of the others who did the sharpshooting. Could it have been Sayid, doing his first dirtywork for Ben?[/quote]

    Oooh, Circus Mom, that is a good theory. But Sayid was on the freighter at that time, wasn’t he? Maybe it was Locke? If Ben was able to convince Locke to let him go, (after Ben tried to KILL Locke!) who KNOWS what Ben could convince Locke to do.

    I wonder what “The Shape of Thing to Come” references? Sun’s belly? The newest form of the smoke monster? The four toed statue?

    Counting down the days… how many LAA meeting ARE there in the next 24 days? LOL

    : ) P

  3. lost4ever says:

    Weren’t they using automatic weapons on the freighter? The shots we saw were aimed, steady shots, with a silencer possibly. They did not seem like the shots that would come from an automatic weapon. CircusMom is right, they were not very good shots.

    I watched the first episodes again and never realized that OUR beloved doctor Jack took flying lessons. Who needs the Lawnmower Man? Jack can use the line from the Govenator, “GET TO THE CHOPPER”, and fly them outta there.

    PJ Sander wrote—I wonder what “The Shape of Thing to Come” references? Sun’s belly? The newest form of the smoke monster? The four toed statue?

    TOO FUNNY-keep them coming

  4. lost4ever says:

    I read that article and it states ther are 7 more episodes this year? Can anyone confirm how many episodes are left?

  5. withoutsee says:

    [quote comment="204453"]In meet Keven Johnson Michael had a flashback to the crew skeetshooting on the freighter and they rarely hit the target. I wonder if this was to show that is was one of the others who did the sharpshooting. Could it have been Sayid, doing his first dirtywork for Ben?[/quote]

    I assumed sayid’s work for ben was directly correlated to maintaining the safety of those left on the island, implying, it won’t be until he’s off the island that he has this obligation (and/or guilt) to work for ben

  6. PoopyPants says:

    Two theories on the deaths(?) of Carl and Rousseau

    -#1 I don’t know, but it seems pretty obvious that Ben knew exactly what he was doing,sending Carl and Rousseau to get sharpshooted to death.My money is on the guy with the eyeliner who never ages…whats his name(now i have to look it up it)

    -#2 But it could also be that Lepedis(remember he and the chopper were missing from the frieghter last episode)was on a run to drop off the sniper team in the bushes before sending in Omar and the boys.Now im not in the military so take it with a grain of salt but it would seem to me thats the order you would do something like that.Snipers first,grunts second.

    But between the two theories …I say its Richard Alpert(and yes i had to look it up)
    thoughts?

  7. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="204453"]In meet Keven Johnson Michael had a flashback to the crew skeetshooting on the freighter and they rarely hit the target. I wonder if this was to show that is was one of the others who did the sharpshooting. Could it have been Sayid, doing his first dirtywork for Ben?[/quote]
    Someone brought that up once before. I don’t know if the writers realize this, but most sharp shooting is not done with rapid fire automatice weapons like the once used in the skeet shooting scene. It’s actually VERY difficult to hit skeet this way. The sharp shooters may have used these same weapons, but only one shot at a time and likley with a high powered scope. So IMO you can’t discount them missing skeet with an automatic weapon as reasons to think they are not sharp shooters.

  8. Eric Atkins says:

    Rousseau and Karl have been killed by a SWAT team from the ship. The helicopter has been gone for about a day. It went to the island to get Ben’s daughter to use as collateral. Ben did not have Rousseau or Karl killed.

  9. TanziTwo says:

    [quote comment="204600"]
    … went to the island to get Ben’s daughter to use as collateral. Ben did not have Rousseau or Karl killed.
    [/quote]
    Very good, viable idea – minor input… Small assault team – VERY BIG island. How’d they manage to ambush Rousseau (party of 3)? on a specific trail – to specific loccation – at specifically the right time?

    Poss 1: The assault team surveyed the Barracks and eye-balled their target (Alex) leaving they moved to set the ambush.

    Poss 2: Someone inside the Barracks knew of the trek and warned/activated the assault team.

    2A: Ben (as suggested) – to get Alex to the Temple, or off-island, or away from mom & beau, etc..

    2B: Hidden camera(s) in the Barracks saw the Ben map and activated/tasked the assault team. Who?

    -2B1: Ben forces on the freighter?
    -2B2: Anti-Ben forces on the freighter?
    -2B3: Anti-Ben forces on the island?
    -2B4: Ben forces on the island?
    -2B5: Disgruntled Others (now anti-Ben) on the island?

    2C: Someone inside the Barracks (Team Locke). How about Miles? He is “exactly where he wants to be.”

  10. Hammer says:

    I am leaning towards the assualt was from the folks on the freighter and that their mission was two fold. To get Alex as a hostage so that they can take Ben alive and to attack the rest of the islands population.

    I think this for two reasons:

    1. If we step back and DON’T over analyze the events and look at it like the casual viewer, it points that way. Ben tells us that “they” would want Alex to use against him, the gun toter indicates there is a mission and makes sure Lapidus will not be late (as though he has an “appointment”).

    2. If Ben set it up and the folks who didn’t shoot Karl and Danielle leave Alex their alone(otherwise Alex would know that Ben killed Karl) why would he risk her safety and being alone in the jungle.

  11. Hammer says:

    I sure with we had the edit ability back:

    In point 2. I meant to say: …the folks who shot Karl and Danielle leave Alex there alone…

  12. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="204491"]I read that article and it states ther are 7 more episodes this year? Can anyone confirm how many episodes are left?[/quote]

    There were SUPPOSED to be sixteen episodes this season. The WGA strike delayed production long enough that they are only shooting a total of thirteen episodes this season. ABC has aired eight episodes. Starting April 24th, there will be five more new episodes.

    Then, according to their plan, we wait until early 2009 for the next set of episodes. The producers have promised that the three episodes “missing” from season four will be “made up” in seasons five and / or six.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  13. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="204635"][quote comment="204491"]I read that article and it states ther are 7 more episodes this year? Can anyone confirm how many episodes are left?[/quote]

    There were SUPPOSED to be sixteen episodes this season. The WGA strike delayed production long enough that they are only shooting a total of thirteen episodes this season. ABC has aired eight episodes. Starting April 24th, there will be five more new episodes.

    Then, according to their plan, we wait until early 2009 for the next set of episodes. The producers have promised that the three episodes “missing” from season four will be “made up” in seasons five and / or six.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]

    I know that I have read that before, about being 5 episodes. But, if you read that article from WIll above, it states seven episodes and that is a pretty recent article. Just wondering if maybe they changed their mind or is the author of that article completely wrong

  14. TanziTwo says:

    [quote comment="204639"]
    … it states seven episodes and that is a pretty recent article. Just wondering if maybe they changed their mind or is the author of that article completely wrong
    [/quote]
    Nothing wrong with the article
    Notice the “.au” at the end of the http?
    That is australia. the “seven” network airs it
    three weeks later than in the states & canada. My little sis lives there and it ticks her off- that I am always so far ahead of her in Lost thinking. They had only seen 6 shows when the articel was written. They missed the freighter though on the 16 plus 16 eps for S5 & S6.

  15. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="204657"][quote comment="204639"]
    … it states seven episodes and that is a pretty recent article. Just wondering if maybe they changed their mind or is the author of that article completely wrong
    [/quote]
    Nothing wrong with the article
    Notice the “.au” at the end of the http?
    That is australia. the “seven” network airs it
    three weeks later than in the states & canada. My little sis lives there and it ticks her off- that I am always so far ahead of her in Lost thinking. They had only seen 6 shows when the articel was written. They missed the freighter though on the 16 plus 16 eps for S5 & S6.[/quote]
    ———-
    TY. I guess i should read more closely.
    Your little sis lives there? Is her name Claire and yours Jack?

  16. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="204639"]I know that I have read that before, about being 5 episodes. But, if you read that article from WIll above, it states seven episodes and that is a pretty recent article. Just wondering if maybe they changed their mind or is the author of that article completely wrong[/quote]

    The article Will references comes from an Australian source. It could well be that they are two episodes behind us.

    The author’s numbers are wacky anyway, because he says “THERE are 39 episodes of Lost left — seven to finish this year’s writers’ strike-shortened season, 16 in 2009, and 16 in 2010.”

    I don’t believe he is, but if the author is correct and we DO have seven episodes left in the season, there would still be a one episode deficit in the total which means that either season five or six would have 17 episodes.

    This all leads me to believe that the author is both mistaken AND that Australian television is at a different place in the season. *bg*

    The bottom line, though, is that if TPTB had changed their mind about the remaining episodes for the season, I am pretty sure ABC would have announced it on their website or on a podcast.

    : ) P

  17. lost4ever says:

    The title is very intriguing. Not only is it a song by the greatest song writer ever, IMO, Chris Cornell; more importantly, it was a book written by HG wells back in the 30′s.

    In this book he foreshadowed what was gonna happen in WWII. Cities being detroyed from airstrikes. He beleived that the war would last into the 1960′s, being ended by a plague that almost destorys civilization. He also beleived that the solution to mankinds problems was a “world state”, being run by a dictatorship. This dictatorship promotes science, enforces basic English as a global language, and gets rid of religion. When this dictatorship needs to get rid of political opponents, it gives them a chance to take a poison tablet in the envronment of their choice.

  18. Michael says:

    Carl is dead. Danielle will die, but not yet. One more episode with her with some fb’s as she’s dying. They had to kill off Carl. ( don’t know if I can go into it on this blog).

    No coincidence on this show. Ben sends them out there one a path and they get shot. Patchy could come back?

  19. Hammer says:

    “This could be an indication of a restart in the ARG – or a prelude to something we can expect at the conclusion of Season 4…”

    Yeah, makes sense. Since the ARG let us know that a duplicate jet was found and we now that we know the O6 will be getting off the island soon they will likely address the planted jet again in the ARG. I am anxious to see how Oceanic explains the survivors of a broken plane when an intact plane was found.

  20. TanziTwo says:

    Intact planes don’t sink right away. If they are safely (correctly) “ditched” , they may float for minutes, time to evacuate many Losties.

    [twern't the crash that killt them... twas the sharks... arrggh!]

  21. Michael says:

    “…I am anxious to see how Oceanic explains the survivors of a broken plane when an intact plane was found…”

    ++++++
    The Plane was found intact? I thought thet found the faux plane in three peices all next to each other?

    What episode do they show the faux plane in?

  22. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="204724"]Intact planes don’t sink right away. If they are safely (correctly) “ditched” , they may float for minutes, time to evacuate many Losties.

    [twern't the crash that killt them... twas the sharks... arrggh!][/quote]
    twern’t the sharks nietherrr…all the barnicle ridden mates where in thar seats…um…arrggh…

    Though I will admit, Jack nor anyone else said anything about the plane breaking apart in the FFs.

    So you figuring the story will just be, “Oh, the eight of us got our seat belts off and open a door…everyone else just sat there and breathed in water…I was like, “Dudes…you should go with us O8.” But they were like, “No, save yourselves…go on without us O316.” So we started swimming but two of us decided to stop swimming and breathe water. So I was like “Dudes, you should come with us O6.” But they were like, “No, save yourselves…go on without us O2.”….?

  23. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="204729"]“…I am anxious to see how Oceanic explains the survivors of a broken plane when an intact plane was found…”

    ++++++
    The Plane was found intact? I thought thet found the faux plane in three peices all next to each other?

    What episode do they show the faux plane in?[/quote]
    I guess intact isn’t the correct word. I appears to me that the planes pieces separated at the bottom of the ocean as opposed to breaking apart in the air or on impact.

    The video is in “Confirmed Dead”.

  24. Michael says:

    Ok. Thanks. Not trying to split hairs. I thought i had missed something.

    So the Faux plane was supposed to have either broken apart when it hit the water, just before or after it sank?

  25. Michael says:

    [quote comment="204745"]Ok. Thanks. Not trying to split hairs. I thought i had missed something.

    So the Faux plane was supposed to have either broken apart when it hit the water, just before or after it sank?[/quote]
    +++++++

    U answered that. Sorry. At work and distracted /

  26. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="204745"]Ok. Thanks. Not trying to split hairs. I thought i had missed something.

    So the Faux plane was supposed to have either broken apart when it hit the water, just before or after it sank?[/quote]
    We may never know…(we may also never get the story of how the 8 got out alive either)but the way the plane pieces are laying, it would be very odd that it broke apart before it hit the bottom. Who ever put the plane there placed the pieces right next to each other in order. To me, if it would have broken apart before hand the parts would be separated and maybe upside down or strewn about. The current media story is all 326 are dead, so obviously there will have to be some updated media story about how 8 got out and the 6 survived.

    So I guess I’m splitting hairs too, but 8 people getting out of what you see in the video alive is pretty far fetched.

  27. Hammer says:

    I guess the seating chart would help explain a story if we knew where Sun and Sayid were seated. Hugo, Jack, Claire(w/Aaron) and Kate were all in twenty-something rows.

  28. Michael says:

    Ha! Far fetched. I remeber watching the first episode thinking, “These people survived that plane wreck? Little far fetched for me.” Now I can’t stop talking about it.

    I totaly get what your saying. However put the plane there ( Widmore/Ben) may have made a mistake.

  29. Michael says:

    [quote comment="204751"]I guess the seating chart would help explain a story if we knew where Sun and Sayid were seated. Hugo, Jack, Claire(w/Aaron) and Kate were all in twenty-something rows.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++

    That seating chart would save lives.

  30. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="204756"]Ha! Far fetched. I remeber watching the first episode thinking, “These people survived that plane wreck? Little far fetched for me.” Now I can’t stop talking about it.

    I totaly get what your saying. However put the plane there ( Widmore/Ben) may have made a mistake.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++
    Really! What the hell am I thinking. LOL.

    You are correct though, who ever put it there assumed there would never be six folks getting off the island. Seems like the story will be six people getting off, followed by some of them getting back on, followed by…????

  31. deangoodes says:

    So whoever put the fake plane in the ocean either didn’t know there were any survivors at the time they put the plane there, or figured they could stop any survivors from going public with their story. I wonder which it is…. I guess if we knew when the plane was planted we would have some idea as to which of my theories is correct (if either one is).

  32. Michael says:

    [quote comment="204763"]So whoever put the fake plane in the ocean either didn’t know there were any survivors at the time they put the plane there, or figured they could stop any survivors from going public with their story. I wonder which it is…. I guess if we knew when the plane was planted we would have some idea as to which of my theories is correct (if either one is).[/quote]

    ++++++
    Nice, depending on when they planted it. When Tom showed Michael the ticket for the faux plane did it have a date on it?

    I’m starting to think the boat & the people are all Bens.

  33. TanziTwo says:

    Wow!
    [quote]
    > From AP & CNN
    > 01-04-08 1238 PDT
    > Just released at ABC.com. Producers at Bad Robot Prods. held a press conference just minutes ago announcing that they intend to terminate the popular hit television show, “LOST”, at the end of this strike shortened season. They specifically stated that they feel incredible remorse at causing more divisivness among loyal viewers each succceeding year, and, that they feel the pending actors strike, expected this summer, will cause an even greater break in continuity in the Emmy award winning action-drama series. The series finale is expected to be air 22 May 2008.
    [/quote]

    I know… WOW… that is the best April Fool’s Day joke I’ve heard all day here. Oh wait – that’s because it is the first one – all day.

  34. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="204763"]So whoever put the fake plane in the ocean either didn’t know there were any survivors at the time they put the plane there, or figured they could stop any survivors from going public with their story. I wonder which it is…. I guess if we knew when the plane was planted we would have some idea as to which of my theories is correct (if either one is).[/quote]
    ——————
    Or maybe their plan was, if there are survivors, to make sure they don’t make it back. But somehow we know that 6 do. Can’t wait for that season FINALE.

  35. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="204769"]Wow!
    [quote]
    > From AP & CNN
    > 01-04-08 1238 PDT
    > Just released at ABC.com. Producers at Bad Robot Prods. held a press conference just minutes ago announcing that they intend to terminate the popular hit television show, “LOST”, at the end of this strike shortened season. They specifically stated that they feel incredible remorse at causing more divisivness among loyal viewers each succceeding year, and, that they feel the pending actors strike, expected this summer, will cause an even greater break in continuity in the Emmy award winning action-drama series. The series finale is expected to be air 22 May 2008.
    [/quote]

    I know… WOW… that is the best April Fool’s Day joke I’ve heard all day here. Oh wait – that’s because it is the first one – all day.[/quote]
    Been waiting all day for something like this…

  36. Michael says:

    Where the plane wreckage was found, was there a beach or island close by?

  37. leah says:

    [Quote comment="204770"][Quote comment="204763"]So whoever put the fake plane in the ocean either didn’t know there were any survivors at the time they put the plane there, or figured they could stop any survivors from going public with their story. I wonder which it is…. I guess if we knew when the plane was planted we would have some idea as to which of my theories is correct (if either one is). [/quote]
    ——————
    Or maybe their plan was, if there are survivors, to make sure they don’t make it back. But somehow we know that 6 do. Can’t wait for that season FINALE. [/quote]
    /////////////////
    just a couple of questions,
    if you were planting a faux plane in the ocean ,you would first wait until all hope of finding survivours was gone..?at what point would that be?surly it would be just as well to search for survivors from the original plane?
    If they new the where the original went down.
    In short, why would a person or persons, dig up 326 bodies from a cemetery
    In Thailand,transport them to a faux plane dump it in the ocean and claim it to be flight 815,and run the risk of the original being found with survivors or even dead bodies?Was the faux plane dumped there before the crash ?how far was the faux plane to the island ?

    Have I not been paying attention in class?

    Did I miss something?

    Whats my name??

    Why am I covered in fur??

    Easy now!……

    ………Deep breaths! !

  38. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="204803"]Where the plane wreckage was found, was there a beach or island close by?[/quote]
    ————–
    The wreckage was found in the Sundra Trench near the coast of Bali

  39. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="204816"]
    just a couple of questions,
    if you were planting a faux plane in the ocean ,you would first wait until all hope of finding survivours was gone..?[/quote]

    At some point it was said that the phony fuselage was planted so that the “search” would be called off. Don’t remember who said it or when, though, sorry. (Bad fan, bad bad fan.)

    [quote comment="204816"]
    surly it would be just as well to search for survivors from the original plane?
    [/quote]

    Whoever planted the phoney fuselage did so to prevent people from finding the island.

    [quote comment="204816"]
    In short, why would a person or persons, dig up 326 bodies from a cemetery
    In Thailand,transport them to a faux plane dump it in the ocean and claim it to be flight 815,and run the risk of the original being found with survivors or even dead bodies?[/quote]

    Good questions – one that will keep us puzzled until 2010 I imagine!

    [quote comment="204816"]
    Was the faux plane dumped there before the crash ?[/quote]

    Since we have been led to believe that the phony fuselage was planted to lead search and rescue away from the island, it makes sense that it was placed AFTER the actual crash. But given how many times we have been fed red herrings, who knows!?

    [quote comment="204816"]
    how far was the faux plane to the island ?[/quote]

    The last port of call for the freighter was Fiji which is around 1000 miles east of Australia. This makes sense given that the pilot told Jack and Kate (in the pilot LOL) that the plane was 1000 miles off course when it went down. The phony fuselage was found in the Sundra Trench which is off the coast of Indonesia, north west of Australia. This makes no sense for a plane that should have been flying northeast out of Australia to get to Los Angeles.

    : ) P

  40. PJSander says:

    Hmmm.

    The devastating tsunami of 12/26/2004 originated from an earthquake IN Indonesia. I wonder if that will play into the placement of the phoney fuselage. We have been told that it is so deep that they have no hope of recovering the bodies.

    Interesting…

    : ) P

  41. Lins says:

    [quote comment="204756"]Ha! Far fetched. I remeber watching the first episode thinking, “These people survived that plane wreck? Little far fetched for me.” Now I can’t stop talking about it.

    I totaly get what your saying. However put the plane there ( Widmore/Ben) may have made a mistake.[/quote]

    I thought that too…especially after re-watching S1 when Sayid says that their section of the plane did “cartwheels through the jungle”…hard to believe anyone survived, but apparently the “island wanted them to!”

  42. Lins says:

    [quote comment="204803"]Where the plane wreckage was found, was there a beach or island close by?[/quote]

    Didn’t they say in the news report that it was found off the coast of somewhere…Tanzania or something like that? I’ll have to go back and check.

  43. Lins says:

    Oops, see that question was already answered…sorry!

  44. leah says:

    [quote comment="204861"][quote comment="204816"]
    just a couple of questions,
    if you were planting a faux plane in the ocean ,you would first wait until all hope of finding survivours was gone..?[/quote]

    At some point it was said that the phony fuselage was planted so that the “search” would be called off. Don’t remember who said it or when, though, sorry. (Bad fan, bad bad fan.)

    [quote comment="204816"]
    surly it would be just as well to search for survivors from the original plane?
    [/quote]

    Whoever planted the phoney fuselage did so to prevent people from finding the island.

    [quote comment="204816"]
    In short, why would a person or persons, dig up 326 bodies from a cemetery
    In Thailand,transport them to a faux plane dump it in the ocean and claim it to be flight 815,and run the risk of the original being found with survivors or even dead bodies?[/quote]

    Good questions – one that will keep us puzzled until 2010 I imagine!

    [quote comment="204816"]
    Was the faux plane dumped there before the crash ?[/quote]

    Since we have been led to believe that the phony fuselage was planted to lead search and rescue away from the island, it makes sense that it was placed AFTER the actual crash. But given how many times we have been fed red herrings, who knows!?

    [quote comment="204816"]
    how far was the faux plane to the island ?[/quote]

    The last port of call for the freighter was Fiji which is around 1000 miles east of Australia. This makes sense given that the pilot told Jack and Kate (in the pilot LOL) that the plane was 1000 miles off course when it went down. The phony fuselage was found in the Sundra Trench which is off the coast of Indonesia, north west of Australia. This makes no sense for a plane that should have been flying northeast out of Australia to get to Los Angeles.

    : ) P[/quote]
    /////////////////////////////
    Soooooooooooooooo!Naomi,didnt know what the captain knew .she was convinced,every one had died and the plane had gone down,when she was talking to charlie?so she didnt know about the ringer.
    The black box on the freighter,was it the dummy one or the 815?
    the captain seems to know both ends of the story ie. he knows about the ringer plane ,widmore, and how much the operation cost he also knew ,des knew widmore.
    and about the island and survivors.
    just recapping. seems the ideal time to do it , during this rest

  45. leah says:

    [quote comment="204858"][quote comment="204803"]Where the plane wreckage was found, was there a beach or island close by?[/quote]
    ————–
    The wreckage was found in the Sundra Trench near the coast of Bali[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////
    now is that the same bali that the hanso book was discovered? or am i lima’d up again?

  46. Michael says:

    [quote comment="204866"]Hmmm.

    The devastating tsunami of 12/26/2004 originated from an earthquake IN Indonesia. I wonder if that will play into the placement of the phoney fuselage. We have been told that it is so deep that they have no hope of recovering the bodies.

    Interesting…

    : ) P[/quote]

    Very intresting. That would be neat if they could tie in the tsunami into the plot. Does the lost time line match Real life time line still?

  47. Michael says:

    Thank you all who answered all of the question and for your, what seems to be, infinite knowledge of LOST.

  48. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205098"][quote comment="204866"]Hmmm.

    The devastating tsunami of 12/26/2004 originated from an earthquake IN Indonesia. I wonder if that will play into the placement of the phoney fuselage. We have been told that it is so deep that they have no hope of recovering the bodies.

    Interesting…

    : ) P[/quote]

    Very intresting. That would be neat if they could tie in the tsunami into the plot. Does the lost time line match Real life time line still?[/quote]
    It would be close, I think it’s day 99 on the island which would be Dec. 29th, the tsunami what Dec. 26th. With time not being exactly what we think, who knows?

    Here is what lostpedia has:

    ” Day 99 – Wednesday, December 29, 2004 (on the Island)/Monday, December 27, 2004 (on the Kahana)1

    “Meet Kevin Johnson”

    * Sayid and Desmond confront Michael, who tells them the story of how he came to be Kevin Johnson.
    * Sayid reveals Michael’s identity to Captain Gault.
    * On the way to the Temple, Danielle, Alex and Karl are ambushed. Rousseau and Karl are shot before Alex surrenders.

    Notes

    1 There is an inconsistancy in the timeline information provided by the show. Following the timeline of events by observation of statements and events in the show itself leads to a time calculation that is two days ahead of the explicit date references presented in the enhanced episodes of Lost and in “The Constant”. As there is at present no method to explain the inconsistancy, dual dates are presented. The first set of dates presented correspond to the calculated dates on the Island as per observation of the show. The second set of dates reflect dates calculated based on the calander presented on the Kahana in “The Constant”. The two sets of dates should not be taken as endorsing or proving any theories about time gaps between the Island and the outside world. The difference in the calculated dates in the timeline is currently considered unexplained pending further canonical information.”

  49. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="204866"]Hmmm.

    The devastating tsunami of 12/26/2004 originated from an earthquake IN Indonesia. I wonder if that will play into the placement of the phoney fuselage. We have been told that it is so deep that they have no hope of recovering the bodies.

    Interesting…

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———–
    The Sunda Trench is where the tsunami originated from. What a coincidence( or is it fate). It is the second deepest trench in the Indian Ocean. Maybe that is an excuse they use to call of any retrieval mission. Our freighter is somewhere near the Fiji islands in the South Pacific. I am not sure if the Fiji Isalnds and the sorrounding ocean was affected by that tsunami.

  50. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="205023"][quote comment="204858"][quote comment="204803"]Where the plane wreckage was found, was there a beach or island close by?[/quote]
    ————–
    The wreckage was found in the Sundra Trench near the coast of Bali[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////
    now is that the same bali that the hanso book was discovered? or am i lima’d up again?[/quote]
    ————-
    Do you mean the journal that widmore bought at the auction? That was found in Madagascar.

  51. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205126"][quote comment="204866"]Hmmm.

    The devastating tsunami of 12/26/2004 originated from an earthquake IN Indonesia. I wonder if that will play into the placement of the phoney fuselage. We have been told that it is so deep that they have no hope of recovering the bodies.

    Interesting…

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———–
    The Sunda Trench is where the tsunami originated from. What a coincidence( or is it fate). It is the second deepest trench in the Indian Ocean. Maybe that is an excuse they use to call of any retrieval mission. Our freighter is somewhere near the Fiji islands in the South Pacific. I am not sure if the Fiji Isalnds and the sorrounding ocean was affected by that tsunami.[/quote]

    This from the Figi Times Online:

    Respect for nature’s power

    TIMOTHY NAIVALUWAQA
    Tuesday, April 03, 2007

    …”The Boxing Day tsunami of 2004 that swept through 11 countries killing hundreds of thousands of people is a grim reminder of its hand of destruction.

    Even though Fiji was not affected by the Indian Ocean tsunami, we are not immune to such a disaster.”…

  52. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="205021"]

    The last port of call for the freighter was Fiji which is around 1000 miles east of Australia. This makes sense given that the pilot told Jack and Kate (in the pilot LOL) that the plane was 1000 miles off course when it went down. The phony fuselage was found in the Sundra Trench which is off the coast of Indonesia, north west of Australia. This makes no sense for a plane that should have been flying northeast out of Australia to get to Los Angeles.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ————
    I totally agree with you that the spot where the fake wreckage was found would make no sense. It makes sense from the standpoint of the person who planted it there. Why would you want people searching near the correct area?

    Also, the pilot stated that they were flying for 6 hours before they LOST radio communication, then turned back toward FIJI and were flying for another 2 hours before they crashed.

  53. lost4ever says:

    That last reply was in regards to what PJ Sander wrote. I am still working on the cutting of “Qoutes and Reply”.

  54. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205139"][quote comment="205021"]

    The last port of call for the freighter was Fiji which is around 1000 miles east of Australia. This makes sense given that the pilot told Jack and Kate (in the pilot LOL) that the plane was 1000 miles off course when it went down. The phony fuselage was found in the Sundra Trench which is off the coast of Indonesia, north west of Australia. This makes no sense for a plane that should have been flying northeast out of Australia to get to Los Angeles.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ————
    I totally agree with you that the spot where the fake wreckage was found would make no sense. It makes sense from the standpoint of the person who planted it there. Why would you want people searching near the correct area?

    Also, the pilot stated that they were flying for 6 hours before they LOST radio communication, then turned back toward FIJI and were flying for another 2 hours before they crashed.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++
    This might be trivial, but it’s from lostpedia and is estimated using the info from the pilot and Cindy the flight attendant:

    “In two hours, at 908 km/hour, Oceanic 815 would have travelled about 1810 kilometers. This is about 1,125 miles or 977 nautical miles, which is consistent with the pilot’s statement that the flight was “1000 miles off course.”

    From the estimate turnaround position, a course/speed of 224/908 km toward NAN and a flight time of two hours would put the crash location of Oceanic 815 in the vicinity of 15.73102S 179.66479E, somewhere north of the Fiji island of Vanua Levu.”

    It is a least consistent with the different character’s dialog of being somewhere near Fiji.

  55. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="205147"][quote comment="205139"][quote comment="205021"]

    The last port of call for the freighter was Fiji which is around 1000 miles east of Australia. This makes sense given that the pilot told Jack and Kate (in the pilot LOL) that the plane was 1000 miles off course when it went down. The phony fuselage was found in the Sundra Trench which is off the coast of Indonesia, north west of Australia. This makes no sense for a plane that should have been flying northeast out of Australia to get to Los Angeles.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ————
    I totally agree with you that the spot where the fake wreckage was found would make no sense. It makes sense from the standpoint of the person who planted it there. Why would you want people searching near the correct area?

    Also, the pilot stated that they were flying for 6 hours before they LOST radio communication, then turned back toward FIJI and were flying for another 2 hours before they crashed.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++
    This might be trivial, but it’s from lostpedia and is estimated using the info from the pilot and Cindy the flight attendant:

    “In two hours, at 908 km/hour, Oceanic 815 would have travelled about 1810 kilometers. This is about 1,125 miles or 977 nautical miles, which is consistent with the pilot’s statement that the flight was “1000 miles off course.”

    From the estimate turnaround position, a course/speed of 224/908 km toward NAN and a flight time of two hours would put the crash location of Oceanic 815 in the vicinity of 15.73102S 179.66479E, somewhere north of the Fiji island of Vanua Levu.”

    It is a least consistent with the different character’s dialog of being somewhere near Fiji.[/quote]
    ————
    I agree with that. They crashed near Fiji. I don’t understand why the rest of the world would be satisfied that they crashed in a completely different direction (and Ocean)than they were supposed to be heading. Unless the reasoning has already been revealed to us and I just missed it.

  56. Michael says:

    Question. Why was anyone looking in the spot where they found the plane?

  57. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="205098"]Very intresting. That would be neat if they could tie in the tsunami into the plot. Does the lost time line match Real life time line still?[/quote]

    The tsunami ITSELF would likely not affect those on the island or on the freighter because they are northeast (by best guess) of Australia and the tsunami would have headed southeast of Indonesia.

    There is a good graphic here:

    According to wikipedia, Australia felt some tremors from the actual earthquake and saw some heavier wave activity, but I don’t think that an additional 1000 miles away would.

    Whether or not anyone on the freighter will MENTION it remains to be seen. The timeline (especially with the on island / off island disparity) is a little unclear.

    We know that Desmond called Penny on Christmas Eve from the freighter. Since that episode, we have seen a number of night time shots. Wouldn’t SOMEONE have mentioned that it was Christmas? On the freighter or ON the island? I mean, I know not everyone is christian, but it is notable, none-the-less. The earthquake and tsunami happened on December 26th, 2004, so if they aren’t mentioning Christmas, I don’t really think they will mention the tsunami. But that’s just my 2¢.

    : ) P

  58. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205161"]Question. Why was anyone looking in the spot where they found the plane?[/quote]
    The transcripts here indicate a salvage mission looking for sunken trade ships. My guess is whoever planted the plane knew this mission was going to happen…or made it happen.

  59. Hammer says:

    Oops, here they are:
    [An underwater camera scours the ocean floor]

    MAN 1: Sorry, Ron. Drone’s got nothing but seafood at five thousand meters below. You picking up anything with yours?

    RON: Zip. Trying to get her a peek over this ridge as soon as I can. Sonar’s picking up something now.

    MAN 1: Hey you wanna switch feeds?

    RON: Roger that.

    [The camera switches to another underwater drone]

    RON: I’m headed on a baring of about 137 from the co-ordinates we pulled off our guys map. But don’t hold your breath.

    MAN 1: Magnetometer’s picking up a hell of a lot of anomalies around here.

    RON: Chests full of doubloons?

    MAN 1: Keep dreaming, Ron. Let’s swing round to the next grid and recalibrate.

    [The camera suddenly views the tail of a plane. The plane has the Oceanic logo on it]

    MAN 1: Are you getting this?

    RON: What, what’s up?

    MAN 1: Its, its an airplane. Oh my god, its Oceanic 815.

    [We then see a shot of the front of the plane, the camera pulls back to show that we are watching a television news report]

    NEWSCASTER: This haunting footage comes to us from the Christiane I, a salvage vehicle in the Indian Ocean. For more than two months, its been scouring the depths of the Sunda Trench off Bali, in search of the remains of sunken trading ships. Late last night, the Christiane deployed two remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, that verified what the National Transportation Safety Board had long feared, that the commercial….

  60. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="205098"]. The earthquake and tsunami happened on December 26th, 2004, so if they aren’t mentioning Christmas, I don’t really think they will mention the tsunami. But that’s just my 2¢.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Unless it’s not really 2004.

  61. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="204751"]I guess the seating chart would help explain a story if we knew where Sun and Sayid were seated. Hugo, Jack, Claire(w/Aaron) and Kate were all in twenty-something rows.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    In one of the first episodes Sawyer mentions that Sayid was sitting in the back row with his hands in his lap. The las row in the middle section would be about row 47.

  62. jaime says:

    [quote comment="205198"][quote comment="204751"]I guess the seating chart would help explain a story if we knew where Sun and Sayid were seated. Hugo, Jack, Claire(w/Aaron) and Kate were all in twenty-something rows.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    In one of the first episodes Sawyer mentions that Sayid was sitting in the back row with his hands in his lap. The las row in the middle section would be about row 47.[/quote]

    #########################################

    looking at the plane on oceanic’s website, the last row is 42. If he sat back that far, he would have been a “tailie” but as we know he was not….hmmmmmm more questions to ponder

    Another question for you all… When Miles went to visit that lady to “get rid of” her grandson’s ghost,we saw pictures in frames hanging on the wall. When he comes back down the stairs the pictures are all in different frames and some of them had changed. Was this addressed or discussed by any of you? I found the thread for that ep but nothing on this topic. What do you think it means????

  63. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205203"]
    Another question for you all… When Miles went to visit that lady to “get rid of” her grandson’s ghost,we saw pictures in frames hanging on the wall. When he comes back down the stairs the pictures are all in different frames and some of them had changed. Was this addressed or discussed by any of you? I found the thread for that ep but nothing on this topic. What do you think it means????[/quote]
    I don’t remember that coming up. Gonna have to rewatch that.

  64. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="204751"]

    Another question for you all… When Miles went to visit that lady to “get rid of” her grandson’s ghost,we saw pictures in frames hanging on the wall. When he comes back down the stairs the pictures are all in different frames and some of them had changed. Was this addressed or discussed by any of you? I found the thread for that ep but nothing on this topic. What do you think it means????[/quote]
    ———————
    They do make production errors from time to time. They list them, by episode, on lostpedia.
    This one however is not listed. Good Catch.

  65. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205198"][quote comment="204751"]I guess the seating chart would help explain a story if we knew where Sun and Sayid were seated. Hugo, Jack, Claire(w/Aaron) and Kate were all in twenty-something rows.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    In one of the first episodes Sawyer mentions that Sayid was sitting in the back row with his hands in his lap. The las row in the middle section would be about row 47.[/quote]

    +++++++++++
    Warning, this is from lostpedia and may not be accurate:

    “she reported him to airport security as an “Arab man” who had left his bag unattended. After interrogation, airport security released him with apologies, and he successfully boarded Flight 815, where he sat in the last seat in business class, looking at photos of Nadia. (“Exodus, Part 2″)”

    Puts him in the front.

  66. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="205213"][quote comment="205198"][quote comment="204751"]I guess the seating chart would help explain a story if we knew where Sun and Sayid were seated. Hugo, Jack, Claire(w/Aaron) and Kate were all in twenty-something rows.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    In one of the first episodes Sawyer mentions that Sayid was sitting in the back row with his hands in his lap. The las row in the middle section would be about row 47.[/quote]

    +++++++++++
    Warning, this is from lostpedia and may not be accurate:

    “she reported him to airport security as an “Arab man” who had left his bag unattended. After interrogation, airport security released him with apologies, and he successfully boarded Flight 815, where he sat in the last seat in business class, looking at photos of Nadia. (“Exodus, Part 2″)”

    Puts him in the front.[/quote]
    ————
    It sounds like I am not the only one re-watching Season 1. Jack took flying lessons. I didn’t catch the “cave murals” though in episode 6.

  67. Lins says:

    [quote comment="205230"][quote comment="205213"][quote comment="205198"][quote comment="204751"]I guess the seating chart would help explain a story if we knew where Sun and Sayid were seated. Hugo, Jack, Claire(w/Aaron) and Kate were all in twenty-something rows.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    In one of the first episodes Sawyer mentions that Sayid was sitting in the back row with his hands in his lap. The las row in the middle section would be about row 47.[/quote]

    +++++++++++
    Warning, this is from lostpedia and may not be accurate:

    “she reported him to airport security as an “Arab man” who had left his bag unattended. After interrogation, airport security released him with apologies, and he successfully boarded Flight 815, where he sat in the last seat in business class, looking at photos of Nadia. (“Exodus, Part 2″)”

    Puts him in the front.[/quote]
    ————
    It sounds like I am not the only one re-watching Season 1. Jack took flying lessons. I didn’t catch the “cave murals” though in episode 6.[/quote]

    ****************
    They’re not very obvious…more like carvings in the rock…I had to watch it like five times to catch it!
    Good thing I have nothing better to do with my time…. ;)

  68. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="205206"][quote comment="205203"]
    Another question for you all… When Miles went to visit that lady to “get rid of” her grandson’s ghost,we saw pictures in frames hanging on the wall. When he comes back down the stairs the pictures are all in different frames and some of them had changed. Was this addressed or discussed by any of you? I found the thread for that ep but nothing on this topic. What do you think it means????[/quote]
    I don’t remember that coming up. Gonna have to rewatch that.[/quote]
    +++++++++++

    I could have sworn it was discussed on the blog. That’s why I went back and rewatched….

    OK, came to my senses and checked the Confirmed dead thread. Do a controll F and search for frame or Wall and you will find several references. The following is a entry from DocH on the Confirmed dead recap.

    DocH
    Comment 151, posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago – Quote and reply
    Thoughts:

    1) One of the major entertainment reviewers, one of the best, says he believes that the picture “changing” in the Inglewood/Miles scene was just an honest continuity error by the production folks – not a plotline.

    Not sure if I agree.

  69. leah says:

    [quote comment="205163"][quote comment="205098"]Very intresting. That would be neat if they could tie in the tsunami into the plot. Does the lost time line match Real life time line still?[/quote]

    The tsunami ITSELF would likely not affect those on the island or on the freighter because they are northeast (by best guess) of Australia and the tsunami would have headed southeast of Indonesia.

    There is a good graphic here:

    According to wikipedia, Australia felt some tremors from the actual earthquake and saw some heavier wave activity, but I don’t think that an additional 1000 miles away would.

    Whether or not anyone on the freighter will MENTION it remains to be seen. The timeline (especially with the on island / off island disparity) is a little unclear.

    We know that Desmond called Penny on Christmas Eve from the freighter. Since that episode, we have seen a number of night time shots. Wouldn’t SOMEONE have mentioned that it was Christmas? On the freighter or ON the island? I mean, I know not everyone is christian, but it is notable, none-the-less. The earthquake and tsunami happened on December 26th, 2004, so if they aren’t mentioning Christmas, I don’t really think they will mention the tsunami. But that’s just my 2¢.

    : ) P[/quote]
    i believe i mentioned about the omiting of christmas on the island back in the constant!

  70. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205287"]The following is a entry from DocH on the Confirmed dead recap.

    DocH
    Comment 151, posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago – Quote and reply
    Thoughts:

    1) One of the major entertainment reviewers, one of the best, says he believes that the picture “changing” in the Inglewood/Miles scene was just an honest continuity error by the production folks – not a plotline.

    Not sure if I agree.[/quote]
    ==============
    Good show Circus, rings a bell now.

    I tend to agree with you, production errors happen often, but this isn’t the normal type. Sometimes things get moved or disappear/appear, but I’ve never scene photographs changed.

    I don’t see how it would fit into the mythology of the show. But at the very least, I think someone in production did it to see just how far the bloggers will go…don’t think it was an accident.

  71. Trixanna says:

    I felt they intentionally showed the pictures before Miles went upstairs and then again when he came down. It seems like a huge clue but I don’t know what the clue is! I don’t feel it was a boo-boo. It was too obvious to be an error.

  72. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="205304"]I felt they intentionally showed the pictures before Miles went upstairs and then again when he came down. It seems like a huge clue but I don’t know what the clue is! I don’t feel it was a boo-boo. It was too obvious to be an error.[/quote]
    I agree, they focused on the pictures before Miles went upstairs and again when he came down and they were different. He didn’t seem supprised. I don’t think focusing on a production error would get past editing. It was intentional.

  73. Circus Mom says:

    Just a thought. If they said “you can’t change the future.” it could be technically true even if you can affect outcomes. You can’t change what hasn’t happened yet. There is nothing to change. Perhaps you can affect things yet to happen.

    Not sure if I am making sense but the pictures did change so something was affected.

  74. Omar Kamel says:

    I don’t believe for a second that Ben was responsible for Rousseau and Karl’s deaths.

    My reasoning is very simple and to me, quite bulletproof.

    1. He’s had ample reason to kill both of them before, had he wanted them dead they’d never have survived as long as they have.

    2. It is in BEN’s interest to keep alive the two people MOST likely to protect Alex.

    My money’s on various boat people – NOT losties, and NOT the Others. This is why Alex screamed that she was Ben’s daughter – she understood that this information is the only reason they’d keep her alive. That she could be used as leverage against Ben.

  75. lost4ever says:

    Was Karl freed from ROOM 23 by Sawyer and Kate, with Aldo on guard?
    When was the next time Ben saw Karl?
    I think the bug-eyed man finally got his chance and took it. He stated he doesn’t KILL innocent people. Who WAS Karl? ( Whidmore maybe, Libby’s son).

  76. RGS says:

    [quote comment="205312"]Just a thought. If they said “you can’t change the future.” it could be technically true even if you can affect outcomes. You can’t change what hasn’t happened yet. There is nothing to change. Perhaps you can affect things yet to happen.

    Not sure if I am making sense but the pictures did change so something was affected.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Blocking and tackling approach. Someone mention previously that Lostpedia lists quite a few production errors. The error of the pictures has not been listed, maybe as of yet.

    There are however, tons of other errors that can be thrown into the same boat as the picture frame “error.” There are even errors mentioned (and shown) that the camera seems to deliberately focus on, that have to be viewed as errors.

    I can’t recall reading any theory on what the purpose of the frames deliberately changing from the result of Miles speaking to the ghost.
    Are we theorizing that because Miles spoke to the ghost and found the hidden drug money, the ghost’s history changed?

  77. jaime says:

    This is why I love this blog. I throw out a question i have in my head (picture frames) and wait for logical ideas, theories. Thank you for the responses. I agree that it was done on purpose but why I don’t know.
    I very interested in Miles lately, would love to know a bit more about him. (From Lostpedia)When Miles is talking to Naomi’s body, he is actually talking in reverse – much like the Whispers. When the audio is reversed he is clearly saying “You’ve got to see it through”.
    Interesting fellow

  78. TanziTwo says:

    Entertainment Weekly reviews LOST (3 patges)

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20188031,00.html

  79. RGS says:

    Ok you guys had me digging around, googling Lost Production errors, and within the darkufo continuity section, an eagle eye observer saw that the photo with the metal frame (and I haven’t rewatched the ep. to confirm) is actually present in the room as Miles is leaving, and then it is shown at the bottom of the stairs.

    To me that suggests that the prop person quickly grabbed the picture out of the “upstairs room” and put it on the wall. This especially makes sense to me because the other photos are switched around too. Since it was a small scene in the overall episode, they probably didn’t spend much time on cleaning it up.

    “Double Photo”

    http://lostcontinuity.blogspot.com/

  80. jaime says:

    Another little tid-bit of info i came upon….When Ben’s “room” is discovered and the money in his drawer is revealed, the face on the money is Michael Faraday. Also, this partcular note was only in circulation from 1991-2001…why does he keep money that can’t be spent?

  81. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205713"]Ok you guys had me digging around, googling Lost Production errors, and within the darkufo continuity section, an eagle eye observer saw that the photo with the metal frame (and I haven’t rewatched the ep. to confirm) is actually present in the room as Miles is leaving, and then it is shown at the bottom of the stairs.

    To me that suggests that the prop person quickly grabbed the picture out of the “upstairs room” and put it on the wall. This especially makes sense to me because the other photos are switched around too. Since it was a small scene in the overall episode, they probably didn’t spend much time on cleaning it up.

    “Double Photo”

    http://lostcontinuity.blogspot.com/%5B/quote%5D

    ++++++++++++++
    That makes more sense than photos “changing” and being called an error. Like I mentioned earlier, production errors are usually things like objects being moved, not changing them altogether. So, I’d buy that one.

  82. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205718"]Another little tid-bit of info i came upon….When Ben’s “room” is discovered and the money in his drawer is revealed, the face on the money is Michael Faraday. Also, this partcular note was only in circulation from 1991-2001…why does he keep money that can’t be spent?[/quote]
    Is there a screne cap?

    Why can’t it be spent? Our two dollars bills,Susan B. Anothony, JFK 50 cent pieces are all still good.

    Maybe 2001 was the last time he was in that country? It’s probabally more of a Faraday hint than anything.

  83. TanziTwo says:

    [quote comment="205718"]
    …When Ben’s “room” is discovered and the money in his drawer is revealed, the face on the money is Michael Faraday. Also, this partcular note was only in circulation from 1991-2001… why does he keep money that can’t be spent?
    [/quote]
    Bcuz it is money and still good… just because they stopped printing it in 2001 doesn’t make it worthless. The next time it is circulated thru a bank would be the time they would replace it with more current currency. they might even let it pass back to the public if it is in good shape (hence – mint condition).

  84. jaime says:

    [quote comment="205726"][quote comment="205718"]Another little tid-bit of info i came upon….When Ben’s “room” is discovered and the money in his drawer is revealed, the face on the money is Michael Faraday. Also, this partcular note was only in circulation from 1991-2001…why does he keep money that can’t be spent?[/quote]
    Is there a screne cap?

    .[/quote]

    **************************
    let me see if i can find the one i was looking at

  85. jaime says:

    Here is a screen cap with a little info attached to it…
    docarzt.com/lost-easter-eggs/lost-easter-egg-403-funny-mone.php

  86. jaime says:

    Here is a screen cap with a little info attached to it…

    http://www.docarzt.com/lost-easter-eggs/lost-easter-egg-403-funny-mone.php

  87. Hammer says:

    Here are some interesting anagrams for Dean Moriarty(Ben’s passport when the money was found).

    Funny:
    anatomy rider
    dainty roamer

    Interesting:
    army ordinate
    army rationed
    detain armory

    ?:
    raid monetary – which is what Sayid was doing when he found it. LOL.

  88. jaime says:

    [quote comment="205736"]Here are some interesting anagrams for Dean Moriarty(Ben’s passport when the money was found).

    Funny:
    anatomy rider
    dainty roamer

    Interesting:
    army ordinate
    army rationed
    detain armory

    ?:
    raid monetary – which is what Sayid was doing when he found it. LOL.[/quote]

    ****************************
    That’s some good research there Hammer :)…I actually laughed outloud on the first couple anagrams.

  89. leah says:

    [quote comment="205728"][quote comment="205726"][quote comment="205718"]Another little tid-bit of info i came upon….When Ben’s “room” is discovered and the money in his drawer is revealed, the face on the money is Michael Faraday. Also, this partcular note was only in circulation from 1991-2001…why does he keep money that can’t be spent?[/quote]
    Is there a screne cap?

    .[/quote]

    **************************
    let me see if i can find the one i was looking at[/quote]
    //////////////////
    what the writers want you to ask yourself is…how did he happen to have the money that you could only get your hands on between 1991 and 2001 ? ,where was he between 91 and 2001?

  90. leah says:

    [quote comment="205312"]Just a thought. If they said “you can’t change the future.” it could be technically true even if you can affect outcomes. You can’t change what hasn’t happened yet. There is nothing to change. Perhaps you can affect things yet to happen.

    Not sure if I am making sense but the pictures did change so something was affected.[/quote]
    ////////////
    but you can change the present by meddling with the past!!!

  91. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205759"]

    ,where was he between 91 and 2001?[/quote]
    Somewhere in Britain, making Widmore angry…

  92. Michael says:

    “I think the bug-eyed man finally got his chance and took it. He stated he doesn’t KILL innocent people.”

    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_
    When he said that he doesn’t kill innocent people he means HE doesn’t. Just like when he said he keeps his word. He told jack he could leave the island on the submarine. He knew Locke would blow it up. Ben did not not blow it up even though he wanted it to be.

  93. Hammer says:

    I don’t know if it’s Clinton-speak or whatever, but he pulled the trigger on Locke, and left him for dead. Is Locke not innocent?

  94. jaime says:

    [quote comment="205759"][quote comment="205728"][quote comment="205726"][quote comment="205718"]Another little tid-bit of info i came upon….When Ben’s “room” is discovered and the money in his drawer is revealed, the face on the money is Michael Faraday. Also, this partcular note was only in circulation from 1991-2001…why does he keep money that can’t be spent?[/quote]
    Is there a screne cap?

    .[/quote]

    **************************
    let me see if i can find the one i was looking at[/quote]
    //////////////////
    what the writers want you to ask yourself is…how did he happen to have the money that you could only get your hands on between 1991 and 2001 ?

    ,where was he between 91 and 2001?[/quote]

    #######################################

    Yes Leah, precisely

  95. jaime says:

    But as Hammer stated in post 82
    It’s more of a Faraday easter egg than trying to figure out where Ben has been.

  96. Hammer says:

    Woo Hoo!!!

    Someone finally disected the whispers when Harper appeared in the jungle AND when Juliet opens the door at the Tempest(bonus for me!):

    Juliet, Harper, and Jack in the Jungle
    Right before Juliet runs into Harper in the jungle:

    “Sarah is having another…”
    “Is that the other woman?”

    Right when Juliet runs into Harper in the jungle:

    “Look out”
    “Sarah is having another…”
    “Did you hear that?”
    “If she won’t save us then who is?”
    “Sarah, somebody’s coming”
    “There is somebody coming”
    “Hold on one second”
    “There is somebody coming”

    After Jack runs into Juliet and Harper:

    “Look out”
    “Sarah, it’s someone we know. Sarah, it’s someone we know”
    “I’m not answering”
    “Answer them”
    “We have our answer”
    “Can we trust her?””

    Finally, a very faint whisper can be heard right before Juliet uses the pulley door contraption at the Tempest Station.

    “It’s Juliet”

  97. Lins says:

    Hammer, I finally read all the whisper transcripts and I think I am agreeing more with your whisper theory…they are a little creepy to read though!

  98. Michael says:

    [quote comment="205796"]Woo Hoo!!!

    Someone finally disected the whispers when Harper appeared in the jungle AND when Juliet opens the door at the Tempest(bonus for me!):

    Juliet, Harper, and Jack in the Jungle
    Right before Juliet runs into Harper in the jungle:

    “Sarah is having another…”
    “Is that the other woman?”

    Right when Juliet runs into Harper in the jungle:

    “Look out”
    “Sarah is having another…”
    “Did you hear that?”
    “If she won’t save us then who is?”
    “Sarah, somebody’s coming”
    “There is somebody coming”
    “Hold on one second”
    “There is somebody coming”

    After Jack runs into Juliet and Harper:

    “Look out”
    “Sarah, it’s someone we know. Sarah, it’s someone we know”
    “I’m not answering”
    “Answer them”
    “We have our answer”
    “Can we trust her?””

    Finally, a very faint whisper can be heard right before Juliet uses the pulley door contraption at the Tempest Station.

    “It’s Juliet”
    ”[/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    Wow. Sounds like people that know Juliet. The women that died under her care?

  99. Michael says:

    [quote comment="205800"]Hammer, I finally read all the whisper transcripts and I think I am agreeing more with your whisper theory…they are a little creepy to read though![/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_

    Hammer, Where can i read that theory?

  100. jaime says:

    [quote comment="205796"]Woo Hoo!!!

    Someone finally disected the whispers when Harper appeared in the jungle AND when Juliet opens the door at the Tempest(bonus for me!):

    [/quote]
    #########################
    That is fricken great!!! You rock Hammer
    So the next question is WHO IS SARAH?

    1. Sarah Shephard (Jack’s ex wife)
    2. Sarah (nickname given to Ana Lucia by Christian Shephard)

  101. Rita says:

    [quote comment="205790"]I don’t know if it’s Clinton-speak or whatever, but he pulled the trigger on Locke, and left him for dead. Is Locke not innocent?[/quote]
    ***********************

    Well….technically he DIDN’T KILL him.

  102. Rita says:

    [quote comment="205796"]Woo Hoo!!!

    Someone finally disected the whispers when Harper appeared in the jungle AND when Juliet opens the door at the Tempest(bonus for me!):

    Juliet, Harper, and Jack in the Jungle
    Right before Juliet runs into Harper in the jungle:

    “Sarah is having another…”
    “Is that the other woman?”

    Right when Juliet runs into Harper in the jungle:

    “Look out”
    “Sarah is having another…”
    “Did you hear that?”
    “If she won’t save us then who is?”
    “Sarah, somebody’s coming”
    “There is somebody coming”
    “Hold on one second”
    “There is somebody coming”

    After Jack runs into Juliet and Harper:

    “Look out”
    “Sarah, it’s someone we know. Sarah, it’s someone we know”
    “I’m not answering”
    “Answer them”
    “We have our answer”
    “Can we trust her?””

    Finally, a very faint whisper can be heard right before Juliet uses the pulley door contraption at the Tempest Station.

    “It’s Juliet”
    ”[/quote]
    **************************

    VERY VERY COOL, Hammer!!! Good stuff.

  103. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="205809"][quote comment="205796"]Woo Hoo!!!

    Someone finally disected the whispers when Harper appeared in the jungle AND when Juliet opens the door at the Tempest(bonus for me!):

    [/quote]
    #########################
    That is fricken great!!! You rock Hammer
    So the next question is WHO IS SARAH?

    1. Sarah Shephard

    (Jack’s ex wife)
    2. Sarah

    (nickname given to Ana Lucia by Christian Shephard)[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    I was thinking it was Jacks ex wife and that “Sarah is having another…” would be finished with baby. In Jacks FF she is pregnant. But if the wispers are all dead then Ana Lucia makes sense but what is she having another of.
    “Is that the other woman.” could be someone asking Harper or….

  104. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205809"][quote comment="205796"]Woo Hoo!!!

    Someone finally disected the whispers when Harper appeared in the jungle AND when Juliet opens the door at the Tempest(bonus for me!):

    [/quote]
    #########################
    That is fricken great!!! You rock Hammer
    So the next question is WHO IS SARAH?

    1. Sarah Shephard

    (Jack’s ex wife)
    2. Sarah

    (nickname given to Ana Lucia by Christian Shephard)[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    or 3. Someone we haven’t met. Since they really haven’t given us anything yet on the whisperers other than the whisper themselves and people with hi-tech equipment to hear them, my guess is there will be some type of explanation coming when we learn more about smokey and the security system.

  105. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205804"][quote comment="205800"]Hammer, I finally read all the whisper transcripts and I think I am agreeing more with your whisper theory…they are a little creepy to read though![/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_

    Hammer, Where can i read that theory?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I don’t have it published anywhere.LOL.

    Rather simple:

    IMO, the whispers come from folks that have died (on or off the island). They seem to accompany smokey(but not always) and seem to accompany apparitions (not imaginations). It is my theory that they can show themselves(Ben’s mom) or appear as someone/something important to a character (Kate’s horse).

    If you go to lostpedia and search whisper transcripts, you will see that many of the whispers sound like things certain dead people might say. There are some that could be Boone, Yemi, Ana Lucia(Sarah), Christian, etc.

    My current belief is that smokey, the whisperers and apparitions/manifestations are separate entities but linked to become the island’s security system that Rouseau mentioned.

    I don’t think that the whispers are just extra noise. We will learn more about them…

  106. Trixanna says:

    That is an awesome theory! I can’t wait to find out how they reveal the truth to us. Love your idea though!

    I must say that I am sooooo excited that there is an enhanced episode on tonight. I am getting my LOST fix and it is MUCH needed!!!

  107. Hammer says:

    Micheal and Trix,

    If interested, in the Constant thread posts 485 and 507 I broke down specifically what I think are comments by certain dead folks. I have other ramblings in the threads since then too. You’d have to do the control f trick to find them all, but the first two I mentioned will give the gist of my thinking.

  108. Trixanna says:

    Thanks Hammer… You Da Man!!!!

  109. TanziTwo says:

    Kate’s horse was a whisperer (horse-whisperer?) what did he say “Oh Wilbur” (Mr Ed.) jokes for all!

    Really – - – I think the ghost-buster drama was solved tonight. Some have said the photos when Miles went in to the house in Inglewood were different than when he left. After watching again, closely, for the umpteenth time, it hit me. From the shadows, it looked like Miles walked in the house from a northern facing door. He dropped his suitcase, configured the noise-maker and headed upstairs. The pictures were on the wall to the right of the door, as you come in the door. When he came back down, he dismantled the noise-maker and put it back in to the suitcase. Then when he reflected on the dead young man, he looked hard to the right (east). I think he did not not look at the pictures on the north wall of the house… I think that he looked at the pictures on the “wing-wall” (east), just behind the door to the left as you come in, not to the right of the door. Of course they were different frames and photos, he was looking at a completely different wall.

  110. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="205884"]Kate’s horse was a whisperer (horse-whisperer?) what did he say “Oh Wilbur” (Mr Ed.) jokes for all!

    Really – - – I think the ghost-buster drama was solved tonight. Some have said the photos when Miles went in to the house in Inglewood were different than when he left. After watching again, closely, for the umpteenth time, it hit me. From the shadows, it looked like Miles walked in the house from a northern facing door. He dropped his suitcase, configured the noise-maker and headed upstairs. The pictures were on the wall to the right of the door, as you come in the door. When he came back down, he dismantled the noise-maker and put it back in to the suitcase. Then when he reflected on the dead young man, he looked hard to the right (east). I think he did not not look at the pictures on the north wall of the house… I think that he looked at the pictures on the “wing-wall” (east), just behind the door to the left as you come in, not to the right of the door. Of course they were different frames and photos, he was looking at a completely different wall.[/quote]
    I strongly dissagree. You can see the handrail for the stairs in front of the pictures both times and the lines on the wood wall paneling are the same in both. If you are judging direction from shadows, they probably moved in the many hours it took to film at that location. Also, since you don’t know what time of day Miles went there I don’t know how the shadows could indicate direction.

  111. Circus Mom says:

    A couple of thoughts after the enhanced epi.

    If Ben had wanted to kill Locke he would have shot him in the head or the chest, not the side.

    I don’t think Ben knew Charlotte had a vest on. If he did and was faking trying to kill her he would have shot lower to insure the bullet not going over the vest and hitting her in the neck.

  112. Circus Mom says:

    Dose anyone recall the 2001 movie “The Others” starring Nicole Kidman? It’s on late night TV now. Look it up on IMDB

    Quotes from the movie;

    Anna “I don’t beleive the holy spirit is a dog.”

    Mrs. Mills “there are places where the dead and the living get mixed up.”

    The movie is complete with whispers.

    Anyone know the movie? Any thoughts?

  113. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="205983"]Dose anyone recall the 2001 movie “The Others” starring Nicole Kidman? It’s on late night TV now. Look it up on IMDB

    Quotes from the movie;

    Anna “I don’t beleive the holy spirit is a dog.”

    Mrs. Mills “there are places where the dead and the living get mixed up.”

    The movie is complete with whispers.

    Anyone know the movie? Any thoughts?[/quote]
    I don’t know that one. Funny you mention it though, last night I was watch the Chiller channel and they are replaying an old series called “The Others” about a girl who sees the past(of other folks) and joins up with a group of supernaturalists…

  114. deangoodes says:

    I have seen the Nicole Kidman movie The Others. I enjoyed it, nice twists. But I don’t want to spoil it for anyone going to watch it. But I do see how it could be similar to Lost. I want to write more but don’t want to ruin the movie.

  115. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206007"]I have seen the Nicole Kidman movie The Others. I enjoyed it, nice twists. But I don’t want to spoil it for anyone going to watch it. But I do see how it could be similar to Lost. I want to write more but don’t want to ruin the movie.[/quote]
    Remember this is no spoilers for LOST. Put a spoiler warning at the beginning and tell us about it!

  116. deangoodes says:

    DO NOT READ!! THIS COULD BE SPOILERISH!! DO NOT READ, POSSIBLE SPOILER MATERIAL!! TO THE MOVIE “THE OTHERS” OR TO “LOST”!!

    Here is what I remember from the movie, if someone remembers it clearer or in a different way please add to this. In the movie, the main characters (Nicole Kidman and her two children) move into a house that is already inhabited by the servants. Strange occurrences keep happening in the house and to the main characters, making Nicole Kidman think the servants are ghosts. It turns out her and her kids died and they are actually the ghosts.
    So is it possible that Ben and the Others are dead people (ghosts), or maybe the Losties are(which may have already been thrown out there as a possibility in a past thread)??

  117. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206016"]DO NOT READ!! THIS COULD BE SPOILERISH!! DO NOT READ, POSSIBLE SPOILER MATERIAL!! TO THE MOVIE “THE OTHERS” OR TO “LOST”!!

    Here is what I remember from the movie, if someone remembers it clearer or in a different way please add to this. In the movie, the main characters (Nicole Kidman and her two children) move into a house that is already inhabited by the servants. Strange occurrences keep happening in the house and to the main characters, making Nicole Kidman think the servants are ghosts. It turns out her and her kids died and they are actually the ghosts.
    So is it possible that Ben and the Others are dead people (ghosts), or maybe the Losties are(which may have already been thrown out there as a possibility in a past thread)??[/quote]
    —————-
    It sounds like “the sixth sense”.

    Hammer I love your whisper theory. I agree with you about the whispers being related to the character in some sort of way. The first time we heard the whispers was after Sayid was released by Danielle. S1E9. I wonder though, if they are always related to the character?

  118. Michael says:

    [quote comment="205867"][quote comment="205809"][quote comment="205796"]Woo Hoo!!!

    Someone finally disected the whispers when Harper appeared in the jungle AND when Juliet opens the door at the Tempest(bonus for me!):

    [/quote]
    #########################
    That is fricken great!!! You rock Hammer
    So the next question is WHO IS SARAH?

    1. Sarah Shephard

    (Jack’s ex wife)
    2. Sarah

    (nickname given to Ana Lucia by Christian Shephard)[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    or 3. Someone we haven’t met. Since they really haven’t given us anything yet on the whisperers other than the whisper themselves and people with hi-tech equipment to hear them, my guess is there will be some type of explanation coming when we learn more about smokey and the security system.[/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    What was Juliets sisters name?

  119. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206025"]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    What was Juliets sisters name?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Rachel.

  120. Michael says:

    [quote comment="206026"][quote comment="206025"]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    What was Juliets sisters name?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Rachel.[/quote]

    _+_+_+_+_+
    Thanks.we don’t know her last name? For some reason i thought her name was Sara as well. Do like whispers theory. Got me thinking about it again. Danielle called a security system. The others have a fence to keep it out. I Thinking maybe Smokey was made or at least trained to be a watch dog but with the collecting of souls it grew and got out of hand and that’s why there is a fence.

  121. jaime says:

    I agree Hammer. I believe the whispers are from people that have died.
    some specific quotes from the whisper transcripts

    1. “Maybe we should just talk to him (sawyer)
    they could help us”
    2. “I know what it’s like for a plane to crash”
    3. “Dying sucks, Hi sis” (taken from “abandoned” when Shannon was in the jungle)
    4. “Your life and time is up Shannon, meet me on the other side”
    5. “You have to beleive it’s me, Nikki” (“The beginning on the End” when Hurley is approaching the cabin)
    6. “Dennis, find out what’s going on” (who the heck is dennis)
    The whispers are usually heard in moments of tension and are mostly heard in the jungle. Sawyer is the only one to hear them on the beach, Michael heard them on the boat.
    The women’s voice that can be heard seems to be empathetic towards the survivors. She tends to want to reveal herself and the other whisperers by “talking to them”
    Some of the whispers are in german

  122. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206028"][quote comment="206026"][quote comment="206025"]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    What was Juliets sisters name?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Rachel.[/quote]

    _+_+_+_+_+
    Thanks.we don’t know her last name? For some reason i thought her name was Sara as well. Do like whispers theory. Got me thinking about it again. Danielle called a security system. The others have a fence to keep it out. I Thinking maybe Smokey was made or at least trained to be a watch dog but with the collecting of souls it grew and got out of hand and that’s why there is a fence.[/quote]

    ++++++++
    Rachael Carlson.

    Yes, I think that the fence was put up by DHARMA to keep smokey out, I don’t think that the Others fear smokey unless they do something worth being attacked.

  123. RGS says:

    [quote comment="206047"][quote comment="206028"][quote comment="206026"][quote comment="206025"]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    What was Juliets sisters name?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Rachel.[/quote]

    _+_+_+_+_+
    Thanks.we don’t know her last name? For some reason i thought her name was Sara as well. Do like whispers theory. Got me thinking about it again. Danielle called a security system. The others have a fence to keep it out. I Thinking maybe Smokey was made or at least trained to be a watch dog but with the collecting of souls it grew and got out of hand and that’s why there is a fence.[/quote]

    ++++++++
    Rachael Carlson.

    Yes, I think that the fence was put up by DHARMA to keep smokey out, I don’t think that the Others fear smokey unless they do something worth being attacked.[/quote]

    I think it was put up to keep the Hostiles out. Plus Juliette seemed to know to run from it (possible knowledge through Others-lore?).

  124. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206052"]
    I think it was put up to keep the Hostiles out. Plus Juliette seemed to know to run from it (possible knowledge through Others-lore?).[/quote]
    Right…hostiles=others=smokey(maybe)

  125. Lins says:

    [quote comment="205974"][quote comment="205884"]Kate’s horse was a whisperer (horse-whisperer?) what did he say “Oh Wilbur” (Mr Ed.) jokes for all!

    Really – - – I think the ghost-buster drama was solved tonight. Some have said the photos when Miles went in to the house in Inglewood were different than when he left. After watching again, closely, for the umpteenth time, it hit me. From the shadows, it looked like Miles walked in the house from a northern facing door. He dropped his suitcase, configured the noise-maker and headed upstairs. The pictures were on the wall to the right of the door, as you come in the door. When he came back down, he dismantled the noise-maker and put it back in to the suitcase. Then when he reflected on the dead young man, he looked hard to the right (east). I think he did not not look at the pictures on the north wall of the house… I think that he looked at the pictures on the “wing-wall” (east), just behind the door to the left as you come in, not to the right of the door. Of course they were different frames and photos, he was looking at a completely different wall.[/quote]
    I strongly dissagree. You can see the handrail for the stairs in front of the pictures both times and the lines on the wood wall paneling are the same in both. If you are judging direction from shadows, they probably moved in the many hours it took to film at that location. Also, since you don’t know what time of day Miles went there I don’t know how the shadows could indicate direction.[/quote]

    *************
    I agree Circus Mom, they are the same pictures, not from a different part of the house or anything.

    I do think there is a significance to them though, I think it tells us something about Miles and his ability to affect the dead. The pictures do look different. Not sure why they’re in different frames, that may be a production error, but I think the fact that the pictures look different is a clue to Miles that we have yet to see.

  126. Lins says:

    After re-watching last night, it still seems weird that the freighter folks weren’t somewhat surprised to see survivors of the crash…Charlotte seemed interested, but not really surprised. Especially seemed weird since Abbadon told Naomi very specifically that there were “no survivors”.

    I also thought that conversation was weird between those two. He told her that her job was to get the team in and out and don’t let anyone get hurt, and yet she came onto the island solo at least what, a week before the rest of the team? Why would she have to come before them?

  127. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206078"] Why would she have to come before them?[/quote]
    Recon. She was supposed to make sure they didn’t get hurt, she had to check out the area first. Turns out she got whacked, so the mission goes on without her.

  128. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206047"]

    Yes, I think that the fence was put up by DHARMA to keep smokey out, I don’t think that the Others fear smokey unless they do something worth being attacked.[/quote]
    We know the fence can keep out the smoke, we have seen it. But we also saw in Ben’s flashback that the aparitions are able to get through. He saw a vision of his mother twice, I beleive. 1 outside the fence and 1 inside. How was this possible if the 2 are connected? Was 1 vision smokey, and the other not

  129. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206087"][quote comment="206078"] Why would she have to come before them?[/quote]
    Recon. She was supposed to make sure they didn’t get hurt, she had to check out the area first. Turns out she got whacked, so the mission goes on without her.[/quote]
    I guess you answered your own question about Locke’s innocence. He is about as innocent when it comes to people’s deaths as Ben is.
    Preceding the Naomi incident, he also let Boone die( the sacrifice the island demanded ), and had Sawyer kill his father. I know his father was maybe one of the worst human beings ever, in any TV show, it was still murder.

  130. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206078"]After re-watching last night, it still seems weird that the freighter folks weren’t somewhat surprised to see survivors of the crash…Charlotte seemed interested, but not really surprised. Especially seemed weird since Abbadon told Naomi very specifically that there were “no survivors”.

    [/quote]
    In Michael’s episode, we Frank tell Michael, a lowly deckhand, that he beleives there are survivors on the island. In fact, he thinks the whole mission is because HE convinced Widmore that there were survivors. I’m sure he shared that news with other people. Kind of like gloating. Like us bloggers do when our theories turn out to be correct.

  131. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206099"][quote comment="206047"]

    Yes, I think that the fence was put up by DHARMA to keep smokey out, I don’t think that the Others fear smokey unless they do something worth being attacked.[/quote]
    We know the fence can keep out the smoke, we have seen it. But we also saw in Ben’s flashback that the aparitions are able to get through. He saw a vision of his mother twice, I beleive. 1 outside the fence and 1 inside. How was this possible if the 2 are connected? Was 1 vision smokey, and the other not[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++
    Well, connected doesn’t mean they are the same(since this is just a theory anyway). I don’t think one was a smokey manifestation, I think both were apparitions. My theory is that they (smokey/whisperers) are related. Smokey seems to be a physical object that can cause physical harm and contact therefore can’t get through the fence, maybe the apparitions are a different type of energy? Maybe working together to secure attempt to secure the island?

  132. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="206099"][quote comment="206047"]

    Yes, I think that the fence was put up by DHARMA to keep smokey out, I don’t think that the Others fear smokey unless they do something worth being attacked.[/quote]
    We know the fence can keep out the smoke, we have seen it. But we also saw in Ben’s flashback that the aparitions are able to get through. He saw a vision of his mother twice, I beleive. 1 outside the fence and 1 inside. How was this possible if the 2 are connected? Was 1 vision smokey, and the other not[/quote]
    ++++++++++[quote comment="206016"]
    +++++++++++++Possibly Ben’s mother got acrosswhen the fence was off.

  133. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206102"][quote comment="206078"]After re-watching last night, it still seems weird that the freighter folks weren’t somewhat surprised to see survivors of the crash…Charlotte seemed interested, but not really surprised. Especially seemed weird since Abbadon told Naomi very specifically that there were “no survivors”.

    [/quote]
    In Michael’s episode, we Frank tell Michael, a lowly deckhand, that he beleives there are survivors on the island. In fact, he thinks the whole mission is because HE convinced Widmore that there were survivors. I’m sure he shared that news with other people. Kind of like gloating. Like us bloggers do when our theories turn out to be correct.[/quote]
    Agreed, there are many reasons they wouldn’t be surprised. Charlotte was chasing DHARMA bears, Frank knew his buddy wasn’t the pilot in the faux plane, you know about Miles comment, and Daniel’s notebook tells him enough to be suspicious too.

  134. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="205983"]Dose anyone recall the 2001 movie “The Others” starring Nicole Kidman? It’s on late night TV now. Look it up on IMDB

    Quotes from the movie;

    Anna “I don’t beleive the holy spirit is a dog.”

    Mrs. Mills “there are places where the dead and the living get mixed up.”

    The movie is complete with whispers.

    Anyone know the movie? Any thoughts?[/quote]
    I have not seen the movie, i’m not really a fan of Kidman or her EX. I wonder though if there are any prodcers/writers/actors in the movie that also have a connection to LOST?

  135. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="206016"]DO NOT READ!! THIS COULD BE SPOILERISH!! DO NOT READ, POSSIBLE SPOILER MATERIAL!! TO THE MOVIE “THE OTHERS” OR TO “LOST”!!

    Here is what I remember from the movie, if someone remembers it clearer or in a different way please add to this. In the movie, the main characters (Nicole Kidman and her two children) move into a house that is already inhabited by the servants. Strange occurrences keep happening in the house and to the main characters, making Nicole Kidman think the servants are ghosts. It turns out her and her kids died and they are actually the ghosts.
    So is it possible that Ben and the Others are dead people (ghosts), or maybe the Losties are(which may have already been thrown out there as a possibility in a past thread)??[/quote]
    The movie was from Nicole Kidmans charactors point of view. She and the kids died in the house. She smothered them and then shot herself. They don’t know they are dead. The servents are ghosts who know they are dead and come to take care of the family. “The Others” who haunt them are actually the live people who have moved into the house. One of “The Others” is a witch and she can talk to the dead (the girl Anna and her brother Nick.)

    At one point Nicole Kidman trys to walk to town but the fog won’t let her leave. Her husband, who died in the war, appears to her and “comes home” for a few days visit. He comments that “Sometimes I bleed.”

  136. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206103"]
    Well, connected doesn’t mean they are the same(since this is just a theory anyway). I don’t think one was a smokey manifestation, I think both were apparitions. My theory is that they (smokey/whisperers) are related. Smokey seems to be a physical object that can cause physical harm and contact therefore can’t get through the fence, maybe the apparitions are a different type of energy? Maybe working together to secure attempt to secure the island?[/quote]
    Agreed. They both have the same objective in maintaining the securtiy. They both look out for the “good” of the island.

  137. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206107"][quote comment="206016"]DO NOT READ!! THIS COULD BE SPOILERISH!! DO NOT READ, POSSIBLE SPOILER MATERIAL!! TO THE MOVIE “THE OTHERS” OR TO “LOST”!!

    Here is what I remember from the movie, if someone remembers it clearer or in a different way please add to this. In the movie, the main characters (Nicole Kidman and her two children) move into a house that is already inhabited by the servants. Strange occurrences keep happening in the house and to the main characters, making Nicole Kidman think the servants are ghosts. It turns out her and her kids died and they are actually the ghosts.
    So is it possible that Ben and the Others are dead people (ghosts), or maybe the Losties are(which may have already been thrown out there as a possibility in a past thread)??[/quote]
    The movie was from Nicole Kidmans charactors point of view. She and the kids died in the house. She smothered them and then shot herself. They don’t know they are dead. The servents are ghosts who know they are dead and come to take care of the family. “The Others” who haunt them are actually the live people who have moved into the house. One of “The Others” is a witch and she can talk to the dead (the girl Anna and her brother Nick.)

    At one point Nicole Kidman trys to walk to town but the fog won’t let her leave. Her husband, who died in the war, appears to her and “comes home” for a few days visit. He comments that “Sometimes I bleed.”[/quote]

    ++++++++++++
    Sounds like a good idea, but not really Lost related. More like the Sixth Sense. Dead folks not realizing they are dead has been done many times.

    In Lost world, I think the whisperers know they are dead, they are reaching out to living folks knowingly.

  138. lost4ever says:

    Mrs. Hawking appeares in he movie as Bertha Mills.

  139. Rita says:

    [quote comment="206105"][quote comment="206102"][quote comment="206078"]After re-watching last night, it still seems weird that the freighter folks weren’t somewhat surprised to see survivors of the crash…Charlotte seemed interested, but not really surprised. Especially seemed weird since Abbadon told Naomi very specifically that there were “no survivors”.

    [/quote]
    In Michael’s episode, we Frank tell Michael, a lowly deckhand, that he beleives there are survivors on the island. In fact, he thinks the whole mission is because HE convinced Widmore that there were survivors. I’m sure he shared that news with other people. Kind of like gloating. Like us bloggers do when our theories turn out to be correct.[/quote]
    Agreed, there are many reasons they wouldn’t be surprised. Charlotte was chasing DHARMA bears, Frank knew his buddy wasn’t the pilot in the faux plane, you know about Miles comment, and Daniel’s notebook tells him enough to be suspicious too.[/quote]
    *************************

    Yes, the freighter crew have no doubt been talking about a faux plane, coverup, what happened to the real plane, are there survivors, etc. I suppose the survivors were a “theory” until they were actually confirmed. I thought when Abaddon was telling Naomi that “there were NO survivors”, we was in fact telling her to make sure there weren’t any.

  140. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206135"] I thought when Abaddon was telling Naomi that “there were NO survivors”, we was in fact telling her to make sure there weren’t any.[/quote]
    Ahh, interesting take.

  141. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206140"][quote comment="206135"] I thought when Abaddon was telling Naomi that “there were NO survivors”, we was in fact telling her to make sure there weren’t any.[/quote]
    Ahh, interesting take.[/quote]
    —————
    Very interesting. Maybe that is why there is an O6. Naomi is dead and can not carry that order out.

  142. RGS says:

    [quote comment="206100"][quote comment="206087"][quote comment="206078"] Why would she have to come before them?[/quote]
    Recon. She was supposed to make sure they didn’t get hurt, she had to check out the area first. Turns out she got whacked, so the mission goes on without her.[/quote]
    I guess you answered your own question about Locke’s innocence. He is about as innocent when it comes to people’s deaths as Ben is.
    Preceding the Naomi incident, he also let Boone die( the sacrifice the island demanded ), and had Sawyer kill his father. I know his father was maybe one of the worst human beings ever, in any TV show, it was still murder.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I would disagree in that Locke acts w/o full knowledge of what is going on..under a perceived trust factor with the island. Ben on the other hand acts with knowledge and malice. Not only has Ben attempted to kill seemingly innocent folks, but he has also ordered folks to be killed. Putting Sawyer in the same room as Cooper would not be murder either…not on Locke’s part.

  143. Hammer says:

    RGS, I think I agree. Letting people die isn’t murder.

  144. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206166"][quote comment="206100"][quote comment="206087"][quote comment="206078"] Why would she have to come before them?[/quote]
    Recon. She was supposed to make sure they didn’t get hurt, she had to check out the area first. Turns out she got whacked, so the mission goes on without her.[/quote]
    I guess you answered your own question about Locke’s innocence. He is about as innocent when it comes to people’s deaths as Ben is.
    Preceding the Naomi incident, he also let Boone die( the sacrifice the island demanded ), and had Sawyer kill his father. I know his father was maybe one of the worst human beings ever, in any TV show, it was still murder.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I would disagree in that Locke acts w/o full knowledge of what is going on..under a perceived trust factor with the island. Ben on the other hand acts with knowledge and malice. Not only has Ben attempted to kill seemingly innocent folks, but he has also ordered folks to be killed. Putting Sawyer in the same room as Cooper would not be murder either…not on Locke’s part.[/quote]
    ————–
    Beg to differ. IMO Locke is being groomed in the same way Ben was. Maybe Ben has the same “trust factor” with the island. In time that trust factor tells you to kill certain people to “protect” the island( Naomi for Locke, Dharma for Ben ). Did Ben really give the order to gas Dharma? I don’t think so.
    Also I think Locke is just as guilty as Sawyer for the killing of Cooper. He knew the end result that was needed for him to be accepted. He couldn’t do it himself so he got his “assassin”. That’s like saying Ben or Widmore, whichever one, is not responsible for the death of Karl and Rousseaou ( if they are in fact dead). But that’s just my opinion

  145. RGS says:

    [quote comment="206181"][quote comment="206166"][quote comment="206100"][quote comment="206087"][quote comment="206078"] Why would she have to come before them?[/quote]
    [/quote]
    I guess you answered your own question about Locke’s innocence. He is about as innocent when it comes to people’s deaths as Ben is.
    Preceding the Naomi incident, he also let Boone die( the sacrifice the island demanded ), and had Sawyer kill his father. I know his father was maybe one of the worst human beings ever, in any TV show, it was still murder.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I would disagree in that Locke acts w/o full knowledge of what is going on..under a perceived trust factor with the island. Ben on the other hand acts with knowledge and malice. Not only has Ben attempted to kill seemingly innocent folks, but he has also ordered folks to be killed. Putting Sawyer in the same room as Cooper would not be murder either…not on Locke’s part.[/quote]
    ————–
    Beg to differ. IMO Locke is being groomed in the same way Ben was. Maybe Ben has the same “trust factor” with the island. In time that trust factor tells you to kill certain people to “protect” the island( Naomi for Locke, Dharma for Ben ). Did Ben really give the order to gas Dharma? I don’t think so.
    Also I think Locke is just as guilty as Sawyer for the killing of Cooper. He knew the end result that was needed for him to be accepted. He couldn’t do it himself so he got his “assassin”. That’s like saying Ben or Widmore, whichever one, is not responsible for the death of Karl and Rousseaou ( if they are in fact dead). But that’s just my opinion[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    I can see the point in Locke being potentially groomed in the same way as Ben could have been, however Ben has definitely shown evil intent. He told Mikhail to kill the two women, in the Looking Glass. Contrastly, Locke does not tell Sawyer, kill Cooper. No court in the US (maybe anywhere) would put those two actions on the same level.

    Ben has certainly, and admittedly lied to his people. Locke has not been shown to lie to his folks.

    Did Ben give the order to gas Dharma, probably not, but he did directly kill his father by gas poisoning? Yep. Couple that with the fact that his father was likely not high up in the chain of command, ordering folks or actively trying to stamp out the “hostiles” and one could conclude that killing was more on a personal level, imho.

    For those reasons, and a host of others, I respectfully disagree with the notion that Ben is just as innocent as Locke.

  146. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="206124"]Mrs. Hawking appeares in he movie as Bertha Mills.[/quote]
    Bertha Mills is the servent who sort of guides Nicoles charactor to understanding that she is dead.

  147. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="206135"][quote comment="206105"][quote comment="206102"][quote comment="206078"]After re-watching last night, it still seems weird that the freighter folks weren’t somewhat surprised to see survivors of the crash…Charlotte seemed interested, but not really surprised. Especially seemed weird since Abbadon told Naomi very specifically that there were “no survivors”.

    [/quote]
    In Michael’s episode, we Frank tell Michael, a lowly deckhand, that he beleives there are survivors on the island. In fact, he thinks the whole mission is because HE convinced Widmore that there were survivors. I’m sure he shared that news with other people. Kind of like gloating. Like us bloggers do when our theories turn out to be correct.[/quote]
    Agreed, there are many reasons they wouldn’t be surprised. Charlotte was chasing DHARMA bears, Frank knew his buddy wasn’t the pilot in the faux plane, you know about Miles comment, and Daniel’s notebook tells him enough to be suspicious too.[/quote]
    *************************

    Yes, the freighter crew have no doubt been talking about a faux plane, coverup, what happened to the real plane, are there survivors, etc. I suppose the survivors were a “theory” until they were actually confirmed. I thought when Abaddon was telling Naomi that “there were NO survivors”, we was in fact telling her to make sure there weren’t any.[/quote]
    ++++++++++

    When I rewatched last night I started to doubt that Abaddon was telling her to kill any survivors. He said her job was to “make sure no one got hurt,” not “make sure the team dosn’t get hurt”

  148. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="206192"][quote comment="206181"][quote comment="206166"][quote comment="206100"][quote comment="206087"][quote comment="206078"] Why would she have to come before them?[/quote]
    [/quote]
    I guess you answered your own question about Locke’s innocence. He is about as innocent when it comes to people’s deaths as Ben is.
    Preceding the Naomi incident, he also let Boone die( the sacrifice the island demanded ), and had Sawyer kill his father. I know his father was maybe one of the worst human beings ever, in any TV show, it was still murder.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I would disagree in that Locke acts w/o full knowledge of what is going on..under a perceived trust factor with the island. Ben on the other hand acts with knowledge and malice. Not only has Ben attempted to kill seemingly innocent folks, but he has also ordered folks to be killed. Putting Sawyer in the same room as Cooper would not be murder either…not on Locke’s part.[/quote]
    ————–
    Beg to differ. IMO Locke is being groomed in the same way Ben was. Maybe Ben has the same “trust factor” with the island. In time that trust factor tells you to kill certain people to “protect” the island( Naomi for Locke, Dharma for Ben ). Did Ben really give the order to gas Dharma? I don’t think so.
    Also I think Locke is just as guilty as Sawyer for the killing of Cooper. He knew the end result that was needed for him to be accepted. He couldn’t do it himself so he got his “assassin”. That’s like saying Ben or Widmore, whichever one, is not responsible for the death of Karl and Rousseaou ( if they are in fact dead). But that’s just my opinion[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    I can see the point in Locke being potentially groomed in the same way as Ben could have been, however Ben has definitely shown evil intent. He told Mikhail to kill the two women, in the Looking Glass. Contrastly, Locke does not tell Sawyer, kill Cooper. No court in the US (maybe anywhere) would put those two actions on the same level.

    Ben has certainly, and admittedly lied to his people. Locke has not been shown to lie to his folks.

    Did Ben give the order to gas Dharma, probably not, but he did directly kill his father by gas poisoning? Yep. Couple that with the fact that his father was likely not high up in the chain of command, ordering folks or actively trying to stamp out the “hostiles” and one could conclude that killing was more on a personal level, imho.

    For those reasons, and a host of others, I respectfully disagree with the notion that Ben is just as innocent as Locke.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Locke has lied. Locke knocked Sayid out when Sayid was trying to find the source of the transmission. He blames Sawyer for it. He and Boone told everyone they were going Boar hunting when they were trying to get into the hatch. Locke also said that Boone fell rather then tell about the plane. Hiding where he had Miles was a lie of sorts. He is gaining more experience lying all the time.

  149. leah says:

    I reckon old Miles is along to interoperate the whispers .Since, he is fluent in reverse
    Speaking?

  150. Rita says:

    [quote comment="206195"][quote comment="206135"][quote comment="206105"][quote comment="206102"][quote comment="206078"]After re-watching last night, it still seems weird that the freighter folks weren’t somewhat surprised to see survivors of the crash…Charlotte seemed interested, but not really surprised. Especially seemed weird since Abbadon told Naomi very specifically that there were “no survivors”.

    [/quote]
    In Michael’s episode, we Frank tell Michael, a lowly deckhand, that he beleives there are survivors on the island. In fact, he thinks the whole mission is because HE convinced Widmore that there were survivors. I’m sure he shared that news with other people. Kind of like gloating. Like us bloggers do when our theories turn out to be correct.[/quote]
    Agreed, there are many reasons they wouldn’t be surprised. Charlotte was chasing DHARMA bears, Frank knew his buddy wasn’t the pilot in the faux plane, you know about Miles comment, and Daniel’s notebook tells him enough to be suspicious too.[/quote]
    *************************

    Yes, the freighter crew have no doubt been talking about a faux plane, coverup, what happened to the real plane, are there survivors, etc. I suppose the survivors were a “theory” until they were actually confirmed. I thought when Abaddon was telling Naomi that “there were NO survivors”, we was in fact telling her to make sure there weren’t any.[/quote]
    ++++++++++

    When I rewatched last night I started to doubt that Abaddon was telling her to kill any survivors. He said her job was to “make sure no one got hurt,” not “make sure the team dosn’t get hurt”[/quote]
    ************************
    I humbly disagree. He EMPHATICALLY said, more than once, that there were NO survivors. When he said to make sure no one got hurt, she had to understand that to mean the team, since there wasn’t anyone right? She seemed unconvinced that there were no survivors, so she asked several times. I think his meaning was clear. He didn’t say “well, we canvassed the entire area, we checked everything out, and there just wasn’t anyone who survived”. He just looked levely at Naomi and clearly said “there are NO survivors”. If she believed that, then when she landed and discovered survivors, would she not have been surprised, and immediately called the ship and said “Hey, we were wrong, there are survivors of 814 here!!!!” No, she understood his real meaning.

  151. leah says:

    Ben has nt actually, phisically killed anyone. i dont think he can.
    perhaps he knows this , thats why he uses others to do his dirty work.Those of them that
    are not on the list?

  152. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206192"]
    For those reasons, and a host of others, I respectfully disagree with the notion that Ben is just as innocent as Locke.[/quote]
    Sure Ben is the more evil of the 2, My original point was that Locke is not an innocent man. Maybe after 20 plus years on the island, Locke could be worse than Ben.

    Ben was on the island for how long before he killed his father? Years. Locke has been there for 3 months and already has sacrificed BOONE, had a BIG hand in his father’s death, and actually killed Naomi.

    Still disagree with you about his hand in Cooper’s death. He NEEDED him to die to prove his worth. He pulled the trigger when he put him in the room. He read the file that Richard gave him and knew what the end result would be.
    You are right, no court would convict him, does that make him not guilty? Sometimes the intent of the crime is as bad as committing the crime itself. “L&O Criminal INTENT.”

  153. Michael says:

    “Ben has certainly, and admittedly lied to his people. Locke has not been shown to lie to his folks.”

    _+_+_+_+__+_+_+_

    Not trying to argue because i like Locke. I don’t put him in the same leauge as ben yet. I think he’s a little naive but i like him. He does tend to lie to his own though. One example that comes to mind is the c4 he took from patch’s house. Him and sayid get into an argument and Locke said he was told there was c4 in the house… He new there was c4 in the house because he put it in his bag.

  154. lost4ever says:

    I think we need another Ben FB. We need to find out more about his background. Hopefully, one of the 5 left will be one. Locke has been very deceiving since he arrived on the island as CircusMom stated. I think his island time might be coming to an end.

  155. jaime says:

    Hey all…check this site out
    It’s a whole lot of information, facts, theories, etc

    http://www.quasiadam.com/theory/bdm.html

  156. jaime says:

    ok…forget the others…use this instead :)

    http://www.quasiadam.com/theoryenglish.html

  157. Omar Kamel says:

    Okay…

    As best I recall – it’s not like Locke heard the island ask him to kill Boone as a sacrifice and went ahead and did it ;)

    Boone had chosen to go with Locke, they found the plane, Locke’s legs weren’t working, so he asked Boone to climb up – the damn plane FELL off the tree, taking Boone with it and crushing him. Locke then did his best to save Boone.

    He did, later, yes – INTERPRET Boone’s death as being a sacrifice that the island required – but at no point did he premeditate sacrificing Boone to the Island.

    So…easy on Locke ;)

  158. RGS says:

    Lol, nothing gets past you folks. I was actually in a little bit of a rush to get out of work when I typed my last lil bit, and realized that Locke has lied but to try to distinguish his lying antics would have taken up too much time/not worth it.

    Lost4, I had a feeling you or someone would drop a L&O C.I. reference, lol. Yes, you could argue based on those portrayals, that me stating NO court would find him… is an overstatement. However, I can confidently say that 995 out of 1,000 times, Locke would not be found guilty, whereas Ben’s chances are not so good. Is Locke guilty for having ill thoughts? Quietly wishing death upon someone? I guess, but then that would make quite a few characters guilty.

    Locke basically just tricked Sawyer into going in the room with Cooper. I don’t even think he told him who Cooper was or anything. He just tricked Sawyer and hoped for things too fall into place.

  159. Omar Kamel says:

    AS for Cooper…

    Well – I might get flamed for this post – but frankly, if anybody deserved to die or get killed – it was Cooper.

    The fact that Locke has scruples (and this may seem like a stretch for sum) is why he chose not to kill the bastard himself.

    Instead – he handed over Cooper to the one man who could kill him guilt-free – the child whose parents Cooper had destroyed.

    It may rub you the wrong way – that Locke ‘allowed’ an execution – even created the context in which it would most likely happen – but I don’t see what the big deal is – knowing what we know. If you’re against captial punishment on principle – that’s another matter altogether – but knowing what we know – a jury would surely have sentenced Cooper to that kind of end. Given that both Locke and Sawyer have been badly (to say the least) effected by Cooper just makes the ‘kill’ less cold-blooded than that enforced by a court. In arranging for it to happen – Locke may have hurt some sensibilities, irked a few bits here and there, but I don’t for a second consider him ‘evil’ on account of it.

    I’m still pretty firmly convinced that Locke is a good guy doing the absolute best he can knowing what he does.

    And the Sayid thing – with the radio? He admitted it to Sayid eventually.

    You can fault Locke on the grounds that he does not always believe in full-disclosure – but really – that it. He likes to keep some things to himself – a ‘sin’ which I find relatively easy to tolerate.

    Killing Naomi – I’ve already explained how I look at that a long time ago, so I won’t go over that again.

  160. Hammer says:

    Testify Omar! I get ya. I agree Locke isn’t evil, he’s following his new faith because he’s been healed and it’s the only thing in his recent past that has gone his way…and he has a special abilities. His mother claimed immaculate conception…we wait for another FB..

  161. Rita says:

    [quote comment="206258"]Testify Omar! I get ya. I agree Locke isn’t evil, he’s following his new faith because he’s been healed and it’s the only thing in his recent past that has gone his way…and he has a special abilities. His mother claimed immaculate conception…we wait for another FB..[/quote]
    *******************************

    I can’t believe I am saying it, but I agree that Locke is more pittiable than evil. I agree that he is following his new faith because he has ALWAYS wanted to belong SOMEWHERE. He finally feels that he belongs. He has been healed and now has special abilities (unfortunately, not abilities in leadership). However, it is clear that his insecurities and anxieties will get the better of him, and he has made some poor choices, but he is nevertheless just a “little boy lost” at heart.

  162. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="206258"]Testify Omar! I get ya. I agree Locke isn’t evil, he’s following his new faith because he’s been healed and it’s the only thing in his recent past that has gone his way…and he has a special abilities. His mother claimed immaculate conception…we wait for another FB..[/quote]

    LOL

    Also – while we’re on Locke…

    Locke has exhibited great moments of simple kindness – Finding Vincent for Walt and letting Michael deliver him, helping Claire with her baby, the cot, etc..

    Ben hasn’t shown any of that – we have not actually (correct me if I’m wrong) seen Ben do anything kind! Being protective of his own daughter hardly counts ;)

    So – that will be the difference. Ben may eventually be ‘right’ – in the sense of him being one of the ‘good guys’ – but in all other ways – Ben is ruthless. Locke is a believer – but his fervor I think – will be tempered by kindness – and that is precisly how he cannot be next ‘Ben’ – grooming or not.

  163. Omar Kamel says:

    Edit: ‘cannot be the next Ben’…

    Sorry, it’s 3:35am here, and my grammar is falling apart.

  164. leah says:

    [quote comment="206262"][quote comment="206258"]Testify Omar! I get ya. I agree Locke isn’t evil, he’s following his new faith because he’s been healed and it’s the only thing in his recent past that has gone his way…and he has a special abilities. His mother claimed immaculate conception…we wait for another FB..[/quote]

    LOL

    Also – while we’re on Locke…

    Locke has exhibited great moments of simple kindness – Finding Vincent for Walt and letting Michael deliver him, helping Claire with her baby, the cot, etc..

    Ben hasn’t shown any of that – we have not actually (correct me if I’m wrong) seen Ben do anything kind! Being protective of his own daughter hardly counts ;)

    So – that will be the difference. Ben may eventually be ‘right’ – in the sense of him being one of the ‘good guys’ – but in all other ways – Ben is ruthless. Locke is a believer – but his fervor I think – will be tempered by kindness – and that is precisly how he cannot be next ‘Ben’ – grooming or not.[/quote]
    /////////////////////
    actually when ben was being Henry gale[FHG] ,imprisoned at the hatch, he was very kind to locke when he had his legs trapped under the blast doors.ben could have left locke.
    but chose to stay.Quite an endearing scene.

  165. PJSander says:

    Okay, I finally watched Confirmed Dead with enhancements tonight!

    Regarding the photos in the house in Inglewood, where Miles does his “ghostbusting,” I have yet another opinion! LOL

    When Miles first comes into the home, before he goes upstairs, we see the photo in a sort of bamboo-like frame. When he LEAVES the house, he passes the same wall, and on it is the SAME photo but in a gold shiny frame (and the photo has not been cropped).

    Here is what *I* think happened. I think that we were SUPPOSED to notice the photo (in the gold frame) in the shot at the end, but that when it was originally filmed, they did not get proper coverage with the camera to do so. I think they probably went BACK to that house and put the bamboo framed photo up (in error, should have put up the gold frame) along with some other photos and re-shot that first scene so that the camera could “hesitate” on the photo longer.

    I think it WAS a production error. Here is a page from Lostpedia which shows the two framed photos side-by-side:

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Mrs._Gardner%27s_grandson

    Just one more opinion to add to the mix!

    I would also like to point out that the “pop-ups” mentioned that Daniel was watching the tv footage “sometime before” he goes to the island. In none of the other “freighter tots” flashes, did they specify that it happened BEFORE. I think we know from the way he was talking in the freighter in subsequent episodes, that Frank’s flash was a flashback. I am still willing to entertain the idea that Charlotte and / or Miles’ flashes were forward.

    As we have not yet been treated to an enhanced version of Ji Yeon and Meet Kevin Johnson, I have hopes that THOSE will be the two episodes that we see next week and the week after.

    Keep your fingers crossed!

    : ) P

  166. PJSander says:

    Good news!

    According to lost.abc.com, they are airing Ji Yeon at 9pm, and Meet Kevin Johnson at 10pm on April 17th.

    According to tvguide.com, there are two hours of LOST on April 17th at 8pm, the first hour being Ji Yeon and the second hour being Meet Kevin Johnson.

    (All times Eastern.)

    Hopefully, one of those listings is correct and we WILL get to see enhanced versions of them!

    : ) P

  167. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="206298"]Good news![/quote]

    Of course, the BAD news is that there is NO episode of LOST scheduled for April 10th!

    Now, more questions to pose to everyone…

    Most of the time, I see the word DHARMA as all caps. I thought it meant it was an acronym (and I seem to remember a podcast where D&C said it was). Lostpedia says it stands for Department of Heuristics And Research on Material Applications Initiative. (I looked up Heuristic and it seems to mean informal research and “rule of thumb” decisions.)

    However, I DID notice that in Ben’s flashback episode where he is a boy, they get onto the island and are greeted by a sign with says Dharma and NAMASTE, and that time, only the first letter is uppercase in Dharma, but the entire word NAMASTE is uppercase. Curious.

    Additionally, I have noticed in the pop-ups, that when the word LOST appears, it is always all-caps. An acronym perhaps?

    Look
    Over
    Six
    Tyrants?

    Losties
    Others
    Scientists
    Tailies?

    Leave
    Out
    Single
    Things?

    Forgive me if this has been discussed in prior seasons. Just thinking out loud (or typing, I suppose) because we have a couple of weeks to kill before we get our next fix! LOL

    : ) P

  168. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206246"]Okay…

    As best I recall – it’s not like Locke heard the island ask him to kill Boone as a sacrifice and went ahead and did it ;)

    Boone had chosen to go with Locke, they found the plane, Locke’s legs weren’t working, so he asked Boone to climb up – the damn plane FELL off the tree, taking Boone with it and crushing him. Locke then did his best to save Boone.

    He did, later, yes – INTERPRET Boone’s death as being a sacrifice that the island required – but at no point did he premeditate sacrificing Boone to the Island.

    So…easy on Locke ;)[/quote]
    I dont think he saw Boone’s death as INTERPRETED. I think he ACTUALLY saw it like Desmond/Charlie.
    You say Boone chose to go with Locke? I disagree. I think he was scared not to. Almost “forced” by the island. Locke is still learning Ben’s powers. The first is manipulation.

  169. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206247"] Is Locke guilty for having ill thoughts? Quietly wishing death upon someone?
    [/quote]
    I’m not sure, if what I think Locke has done, qualifies as Ill “thoughts”, but that’s my opinion. He didn’t just “wish” death on someone. He put the only man on the earth, ( Sawyer), that hated Cooper more than himself, in the same room. He knew Sawyer would do what he chickened out to do. SORRY. IMHO, he is guilty or evil ( If Ben is.) ON The same side I mean. How many sides are there?

  170. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206259"][quote comment="206258"]Testify Omar! I get ya. I agree Locke isn’t evil, he’s following his new faith because he’s been healed and it’s the only thing in his recent past that has gone his way…and he has a special abilities. His mother claimed immaculate conception…we wait for another FB..[/quote]
    *******************************

    I can’t believe I am saying it, but I agree that Locke is more pittiable than evil. I agree that he is following his new faith because he has ALWAYS wanted to belong SOMEWHERE. He finally feels that he belongs. He has been healed and now has special abilities (unfortunately, not abilities in leadership). However, it is clear that his insecurities and anxieties will get the better of him, and he has made some poor choices, but he is nevertheless just a “little boy lost” at heart.[/quote]
    He is the biggest PAWN in this game. His next FB might be it.

  171. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206262"] I

    So – that will be the difference. Ben may eventually be ‘right’ – in the sense of him being one of the ‘good guys’ – but in all other ways – Ben is ruthless. Locke is a believer – but his fervor I think – will be tempered by kindness – and that is precisly how he cannot be next ‘Ben’ – grooming or not.[/quote]
    ————
    I feel we need another Ben FB to decide on his level of “evilness”, but i think Locke is down the same path.
    I Hated Sawyer before I saw his FB. Ben has had only 1 FB. Who knows what has happened to him?

  172. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206279"][quote comment="206262"][quote comment="206258"]Testify Omar! I get ya. I agree Locke isn’t evil, he’s following his new faith because he’s been healed and it’s the only thing in his recent past that has gone his way…and he has a special abilities. His mother claimed immaculate conception…we wait for another FB..[/quote]

    LOL

    Also – while we’re on Locke…

    Locke has exhibited great moments of simple kindness – Finding Vincent for Walt and letting Michael deliver him, helping Claire with her baby, the cot, etc..

    Ben hasn’t shown any of that – we have not actually (correct me if I’m wrong) seen Ben do anything kind! Being protective of his own daughter hardly counts ;)

    So – that will be the difference. Ben may eventually be ‘right’ – in the sense of him being one of the ‘good guys’ – but in all other ways – Ben is ruthless. Locke is a believer – but his fervor I think – will be tempered by kindness – and that is precisly how he cannot be next ‘Ben’ – grooming or not.[/quote]
    /////////////////////
    actually when ben was being Henry gale[FHG] ,imprisoned at the hatch, he was very kind to locke when he had his legs trapped under the blast doors.ben could have left locke.
    but chose to stay.Quite an endearing scene.[/quote]
    ——————
    Why did Ben try to save Locke? To use him later I think. Kill Naomi.

  173. Polli Kovitch says:

    Locke has a perpetual psychological need for a father. He has been abandoned, rejected by his own father. The need for revenge (carried out by Sawyer..who also lost his father)..was in so intense that Locke carried it out. He could not pull the trigger..so to speak. BUT ..he COULD KILL Naomi. The Island (Jacob) is his NEW father. Just as he was blind to his real father’s intention…so is similarly blind to Ben and to the value of connecting with Jack. Locke is his own worst enemy. On some level, oddly naive..he only sees what he wants to see..that is the downside of “faith”. He won’t survive by the last episode in the final year of the series. The Island will betray him.

  174. Michael says:

    [quote comment="206304"][quote comment="206247"] Is Locke guilty for having ill thoughts? Quietly wishing death upon someone?
    [/quote]
    I’m not sure, if what I think Locke has done, qualifies as Ill “thoughts”, but that’s my opinion. He didn’t just “wish” death on someone. He put the only man on the earth, ( Sawyer), that hated Cooper more than himself, in the same room. He knew Sawyer would do what he chickened out to do. SORRY. IMHO, he is guilty or evil ( If Ben is.) ON The same side I mean. How many sides are there?[/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+

    He wanted Cooper dead. Yes. Did he want to kill him. no. Sawyer did. He did Sawyer a favor. How long has he wanted to kill this man, then he gets the chance. And is it ill to want the person responsible for the death of a family member or the attempted murder of you to die.

  175. leah says:

    [quote comment="206456"]Locke has a perpetual psychological need for a father. He has been abandoned, rejected by his own father. The need for revenge (carried out by Sawyer..who also lost his father)..was in so intense that Locke carried it out. He could not pull the trigger..so to speak. BUT ..he COULD KILL Naomi. The Island (Jacob) is his NEW father. Just as he was blind to his real father’s intention…so is similarly blind to Ben and to the value of connecting with Jack. Locke is his own worst enemy. On some level, oddly naive..he only sees what he wants to see..that is the downside of “faith”. He won’t survive by the last episode in the final year of the series. The Island will betray him.[/quote]

  176. leah says:

    “daddy issues”

  177. leah says:

    locke,jack,ben,kate,sawyer,walt,shannon,charlie,sun,jin,hugo all have daddy issues.

  178. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206463"] And is it ill to want the person responsible for the death of a family member or the attempted murder of you to die.[/quote]
    ——————
    I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer to your question. It depends on your own personal beleifs.

  179. Rita says:

    When discussing and thinking about the behaviors and motivations of characters on LOST, I can’t help but think how differently we would all view them if it were all going on in OUR neighborhoods. Of COURSE we understand how people might want someone dead, but to actually kill them? To shoot people? To knife people? Many of these people would be considered criminals if they lived HERE, but on LOST island, we find ourselves rooting for them to kill someone, or making excuses for them when they do. Just an observation.

  180. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206514"]When discussing and thinking about the behaviors and motivations of characters on LOST, I can’t help but think how differently we would all view them if it were all going on in OUR neighborhoods. Of COURSE we understand how people might want someone dead, but to actually kill them? To shoot people? To knife people? Many of these people would be considered criminals if they lived HERE, but on LOST island, we find ourselves rooting for them to kill someone, or making excuses for them when they do. Just an observation.[/quote]
    Well yeah…they are on an island that almost nobody knows about…after somehow surviving a plane crash…then being attacked by the others…with mythological happenings and odd creatures…and people showing up and telling them they found the plane at the bottom of the ocean. They are fighting for their own survival.

  181. Rita says:

    [quote comment="206532"][quote comment="206514"]When discussing and thinking about the behaviors and motivations of characters on LOST, I can’t help but think how differently we would all view them if it were all going on in OUR neighborhoods. Of COURSE we understand how people might want someone dead, but to actually kill them? To shoot people? To knife people? Many of these people would be considered criminals if they lived HERE, but on LOST island, we find ourselves rooting for them to kill someone, or making excuses for them when they do. Just an observation.[/quote]
    Well yeah…they are on an island that almost nobody knows about…after somehow surviving a plane crash…then being attacked by the others…with mythological happenings and odd creatures…and people showing up and telling them they found the plane at the bottom of the ocean. They are fighting for their own survival.[/quote]

    ********************************
    I competely understand THAT. I was just worrying about everyone who posts things like “he had to be killed” and “I wanted them to die” (or similar sentiments), about old-baggage issues (Locke’s daddy issues, etc.), NOT survival/defense issues. Not trying to start something, just making an observation.

  182. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="206535"]
    ********************************
    I competely understand THAT. I was just worrying about everyone who posts things like “he had to be killed” and “I wanted them to die” (or similar sentiments), about old-baggage issues (Locke’s daddy issues, etc.), NOT survival/defense issues. Not trying to start something, just making an observation.[/quote]
    Oh, gotcha. Don’t give out your address. ;)

  183. Trixanna says:

    I hear what you are saying Rita, and I agree. If it was okay to murder a person because they annoyed you or ticked you off, I have to believe I might not be here today! Even some fellow bloggers may have done me in a time or two… lol. Self-Defense is one thing but to get even is another. You can’t go into a court and say, “Well, your Honor, she just bugged me and she didn’t agree with the way I was doing things so what choice did I have but to shoot her?”

  184. Lins says:

    More things to notice from Season 1…

    On a funny note, Locke mentions that Ethan was a good hunter and had spotted a rabbitt…hmmm, a white one with a number on its back maybe?

    Rousseau mentions that when she left her message at the radio tower it was before “they” controlled it…do you think this means the whole purge, Dharma take-over happened less than 16 years ago? I guess it’s possible.

    In one of the ep’s, Claire starts out having a dream that her baby is in the jungle and when she runs in there to find it, Locke it sitting at a table playing cards. He tells her it’s her fault, he was her responsibility and she let him go…seems a little more eerie now that we know Aaron makes it off the island and Claire doesn’t…not to mention Locke’s one black eye and one white eye!

    The whole scheme of things makes so much more sense now when you watch it…it’s crazy to think back about how things happened and now you can (somewhat) see the reasons why.

  185. Rita says:

    [quote comment="206609"]More things to notice from Season 1…

    On a funny note, Locke mentions that Ethan was a good hunter and had spotted a rabbitt…hmmm, a white one with a number on its back maybe?

    Rousseau mentions that when she left her message at the radio tower it was before “they” controlled it…do you think this means the whole purge, Dharma take-over happened less than 16 years ago? I guess it’s possible.

    In one of the ep’s, Claire starts out having a dream that her baby is in the jungle and when she runs in there to find it, Locke it sitting at a table playing cards. He tells her it’s her fault, he was her responsibility and she let him go…seems a little more eerie now that we know Aaron makes it off the island and Claire doesn’t…not to mention Locke’s one black eye and one white eye!

    The whole scheme of things makes so much more sense now when you watch it…it’s crazy to think back about how things happened and now you can (somewhat) see the reasons why.[/quote]
    ******************************

    Wow, good observations! It makes you wonder why, during 16 years, Ben’s group never shut off Rousseau’s message (Now that THEY controlled the tower). Good catch re: Locke’s “white and black” eyes, and Claire’s dream, especially since it was LOCKE that spoke to her in the dream. It does put things into perspective. I think I had better sit down and watch the whole thing.

  186. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206609"]More things to notice from Season 1…

    On a funny note, Locke mentions that Ethan was a good hunter and had spotted a rabbitt…hmmm, a white one with a number on its back maybe?

    Rousseau mentions that when she left her message at the radio tower it was before “they” controlled it…do you think this means the whole purge, Dharma take-over happened less than 16 years ago? I guess it’s possible.

    In one of the ep’s, Claire starts out having a dream that her baby is in the jungle and when she runs in there to find it, Locke it sitting at a table playing cards. He tells her it’s her fault, he was her responsibility and she let him go…seems a little more eerie now that we know Aaron makes it off the island and Claire doesn’t…not to mention Locke’s one black eye and one white eye!

    The whole scheme of things makes so much more sense now when you watch it…it’s crazy to think back about how things happened and now you can (somewhat) see the reasons why.[/quote]
    I am also watching season 1 again for the fourth or fifth time. Regarding your question about the Purge, Ben tells Jack that “NOT SO LONG AGO, Jack, I made a decision that took the lives of over 40 people in a single day.” So I guess it is very possible that Rousseou was on the island during the purge.

    I saw the Claire episode the other day and thought that Locke in the dream was very creepy. That Locke could represent the current Locke. The different colored eyes was maybe hinting at the island has him working for both sides unknowingly. He is, after all a “man of faith”. Very gullible in beleiving that everything he does is for the greater good. Kind of fascist in my opinion.

    Rita, I understand your point above #182. But, I think it is safe to say that Locke NEEDED Cooper dead in order to be accepted by Ben’s people. Ben left Locke with Cooper and told him not to bother to find them unless he was carrying the dead body of his father.

  187. Polli Kovitch says:

    Characters cannot be stereotyped in LOST and that is part of the allure of the program. In a soap opera, good and bad would be clear. In LOST, we can all laugh and enjoy Sawyer..who can turn around and kill a man with his bare hands. We can cheer for the spirited and beautiful Kate who displays and immediate love for Jack, but betrays him with Sawyer. Locke seems like such a victim with a soul..yet he throws a knife in Naomi’s back. Sayid was literally a torturer who displays great sensitivity. Hurley is seens as having a serious mental illness and is often the most sane. Charlie was an addict and becomes a martyr. Jack…on the surface..seems our clear leader..but he is cracking in California in our flash forward and nearly kills a driver who sees him ready to jump off a bridge. We think we have found these characters and then we get lost. Could Ben actually be a “good guy” trying to save us all? And, for me, the most complex and difficult to fathom…Juliet.

  188. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”206802″ Jack…on the surface..seems our clear leader..but he is cracking in California in our flash forward and nearly kills a driver who sees him ready to jump off a bridge. [/quote]
    After Meet Kevin Johnson, I am pretty sure the island had something to do with Jakc on the bridge. And I think Sawyer was a murderer before he came to the island.

  189. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="204489"]Weren’t they using automatic weapons on the freighter? The shots we saw were aimed, steady shots, with a silencer possibly. They did not seem like the shots that would come from an automatic weapon. CircusMom is right, they were not very good shots.

    I watched the first episodes again and never realized that OUR beloved doctor Jack took flying lessons. Who needs the Lawnmower Man? Jack can use the line from the Govenator, “GET TO THE CHOPPER”, and fly them outta there.

    PJ Sander wrote—I wonder what “The Shape of Thing to Come” references? Sun’s belly? The newest form of the smoke monster? The four toed statue?

    TOO FUNNY-keep them coming[/quote]

    Were the flying lessons Jack took in a chopper or plane; quite different animals.
    Also; Jack is not beloved by my and from I read…not by a few others too. I think I like Miles better.

  190. Polli Kovitch says:

    Lost4ever wrote:
    After Meet Kevin Johnson, I am pretty sure the island had something to do with Jakc on the bridge. And I think Sawyer was a murderer before he came to the island.[/quote]

    You are right. But, I think Jack was heading for some rough waters before the crash. His marriage was a disaster and his relationship with his dad was not looking good either. The curious episode Stranger in a Strange Land..suggests he will be a leader..but.. “lonely, and frightened, and angry.” Jack is the lead; the hero; the protaganist of LOST. Follow Jack, and the plot will play out.

  191. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="206836"]Lost4ever wrote:
    After Meet Kevin Johnson, I am pretty sure the island had something to do with Jakc on the bridge. And I think Sawyer was a murderer before he came to the island.[/quote]

    You are right. But, I think Jack was heading for some rough waters before the crash. His marriage was a disaster and his relationship with his dad was not looking good either. The curious episode Stranger in a Strange Land..suggests he will be a leader..but.. “lonely, and frightened, and angry.” Jack is the lead; the hero; the protaganist of LOST. Follow Jack, and the plot will play out.[/quote]
    I agree with you. Funny though, that in the beginning, the character was supposed to be played by Michael Keaton and killed off in the first episode.

  192. Michael says:

    In one of the ep’s, Claire starts out having a dream that her baby is in the jungle and when she runs in there to find it, Locke it sitting at a table playing cards. He tells her it’s her fault, he was her responsibility and she let him go…seems a little more eerie now that we know Aaron makes it off the island and Claire doesn’t…not to mention Locke’s one black eye and one white eye!

    _+_++__+_+_+_+_+

    Doesn’t Locke go on to say that she is responsible for all of them or something like that?

  193. Lins says:

    [quote comment="207048"]In one of the ep’s, Claire starts out having a dream that her baby is in the jungle and when she runs in there to find it, Locke it sitting at a table playing cards. He tells her it’s her fault, he was her responsibility and she let him go…seems a little more eerie now that we know Aaron makes it off the island and Claire doesn’t…not to mention Locke’s one black eye and one white eye!

    _+_++__+_+_+_+_+

    Doesn’t Locke go on to say that she is responsible for all of them or something like that?[/quote]

    I didn’t catch that – but I was a little distracted with my 2 year old son running around so it’s possible he might have said that! Somehow children just don’t understand that when LOST is on you’re supposed to be quiet!

  194. Michael says:

    Question . What do we no about Jacob? And what people on the Island about Jacob? And other than the others and Rose, who knows about Locke being in a wheel chair? Last one. DO we know who is on Jacobs list? We know Jack is not.

  195. Lins says:

    [quote comment="207060"]Question . What do we no about Jacob? And what people on the Island about Jacob? And other than the others and Rose, who knows about Locke being in a wheel chair? Last one. DO we know who is on Jacobs list? We know Jack is not.[/quote]

    I’d check lostpedia…I know they have a whole section on lists.

  196. Michael says:

    [quote comment="207059"][quote comment="207048"]In one of the ep’s, Claire starts out having a dream that her baby is in the jungle and when she runs in there to find it, Locke it sitting at a table playing cards. He tells her it’s her fault, he was her responsibility and she let him go…seems a little more eerie now that we know Aaron makes it off the island and Claire doesn’t…not to mention Locke’s one black eye and one white eye!

    _+_++__+_+_+_+_+

    Doesn’t Locke go on to say that she is responsible for all of them or something like that?[/quote]

    I didn’t catch that – but I was a little distracted with my 2 year old son running around so it’s possible he might have said that! Somehow children just don’t understand that when LOST is on you’re supposed to be quiet![/quote]

    +_+_+_+_+_+_

    Ha! I have the same problem with my 30 year old brother.

  197. Michael says:

    [quote comment="207061"][quote comment="207060"]Question . What do we no about Jacob? And what people on the Island about Jacob? And other than the others and Rose, who knows about Locke being in a wheel chair? Last one. DO we know who is on Jacobs list? We know Jack is not.[/quote]

    I’d check lostpedia…I know they have a whole section on lists.[/quote]

    +_+_+_+_+_+

    Thank you!

  198. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207059"][quote comment="207048"]In one of the ep’s, Claire starts out having a dream that her baby is in the jungle and when she runs in there to find it, Locke it sitting at a table playing cards. He tells her it’s her fault, he was her responsibility and she let him go…seems a little more eerie now that we know Aaron makes it off the island and Claire doesn’t…not to mention Locke’s one black eye and one white eye!

    _+_++__+_+_+_+_+

    Doesn’t Locke go on to say that she is responsible for all of them or something like that?[/quote]

    I didn’t catch that – but I was a little distracted with my 2 year old son running around so it’s possible he might have said that! Somehow children just don’t understand that when LOST is on you’re supposed to be quiet![/quote]
    —————–
    I think Lins summed it up pretty well. I don’t recall Locke saying anything else

  199. deangoodes says:

    I think the purge happened more than 16 years ago, otherwise Rousseau would have been gassed as well.

  200. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207060"]Question . What do we no about Jacob? And what people on the Island about Jacob? And other than the others and Rose, who knows about Locke being in a wheel chair? Last one. DO we know who is on Jacobs list? We know Jack is not.[/quote]
    We dont’ really know anything about Jacob except that he has a cabin surrounded by ash that can apparently move. And Christian Sheperd was sitting in his rocking chair.

  201. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207072"]I think the purge happened more than 16 years ago, otherwise Rousseau would have been gassed as well.[/quote]
    It depends on where the gassing occurred. In that particular episode, I think the gassing occurred at the barracks and Ben gassed his father in the van. If the gassing affects the whole island then yes, I agree with you. However, as was stated in comment 187, Ben says NOT SO LONG AGO. Maybe 16 years is not that long for Ben.

  202. Lins says:

    [quote comment="207078"][quote comment="207072"]I think the purge happened more than 16 years ago, otherwise Rousseau would have been gassed as well.[/quote]
    It depends on where the gassing occurred. In that particular episode, I think the gassing occurred at the barracks and Ben gassed his father in the van. If the gassing affects the whole island then yes, I agree with you. However, as was stated in comment 187, Ben says NOT SO LONG AGO. Maybe 16 years is not that long for Ben.[/quote]

    **************
    And Rousseau lived underground…maybe that helped?

  203. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="207093"][quote comment="207078"][quote comment="207072"]I think the purge happened more than 16 years ago, otherwise Rousseau would have been gassed as well.[/quote]
    It depends on where the gassing occurred. In that particular episode, I think the gassing occurred at the barracks and Ben gassed his father in the van. If the gassing affects the whole island then yes, I agree with you. However, as was stated in comment 187, Ben says NOT SO LONG AGO. Maybe 16 years is not that long for Ben.[/quote]

    **************
    And Rousseau lived underground…maybe that helped?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    The fact that Ben had to use a seperate can of gas to kill his father would indicate that Rousseau would just have to be a mile or two away to be safe. It’s a big island.

  204. Bobbi says:

    I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.

  205. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin and Claire. Claire gave birth after the crash and wasn’t a O6.

  206. Michael says:

    [quote comment="207205"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin and Claire. Claire gave birth after the crash and wasn’t a O6.[/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_

    Adam & Eve = Jin & Clair- No.

  207. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="207212"][quote comment="207205"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin and Claire. Claire gave birth after the crash and wasn’t a O6.[/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_

    Adam & Eve = Jin & Clair- No.[/quote]
    +++++++
    I could hear more on that theory. Why were they so decomposed?

    Just two descripancys I found this week. Jack says Adam and Eve were there about 40 years becaues of the decomposition of their clothing. In epi 1-24? when Locke finds the beechcraft he says that clothing would usually decompose in two years but since the “priest” was wearing good quality polyester it would be hard to judge how long he had been there. Could be 5 years, could be 20.

    Jack says to Anna Lucia he is in 23B but in a earlier epi he told someone he was in 23A.

  208. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207263"][quote comment="207212"][quote comment="207205"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin and Claire. Claire gave birth after the crash and wasn’t a O6.[/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_

    Adam & Eve = Jin & Clair- No.[/quote]
    +++++++
    I could hear more on that theory. Why were they so decomposed?

    Just two descripancys I found this week. Jack says Adam and Eve were there about 40 years becaues of the decomposition of their clothing. In epi 1-24? when Locke finds the beechcraft he says that clothing would usually decompose in two years but since the “priest” was wearing good quality polyester it would be hard to judge how long he had been there. Could be 5 years, could be 20.

    Jack says to Anna Lucia he is in 23B but in a earlier epi he told someone he was in 23A.[/quote]
    —————
    I saw that episode today with Locke and Boone it was S1E19, when they find the beechcraft. It got me thinking, wasn’t that the same cliff he took Eko to? Maybe Locke was supposed to find that station ( the Pearl )then, instead of later with Eko. Maybe he misinterpreted the sign from the island

  209. intolost says:

    Pondering:
    Re: Karl and Russeau….
    Where’s Frank and the chopper? Anything to do with Russeau and Karl? Do we know who, if anyone, went with Frank? Did Frank go to get Miles? Could Miles have been involved in the Russeau/Karl shooting? Ben the Ever Almighty Manipulator most likely has some claws into Miles, too, in exchange for the 3.2 mil. I bet Frank’s dead, too, so he’ll shut up about 815. Michael/Kevin told Sayid he’s there to die. Since Frank has blabbed about 815 to the tots, maybe that’s part of the reason why Ben wants to blow up the boat.

  210. DocH says:

    - been thinking alot about miles and the 3.2 million dollar request. we know miles is high strung. seems like everyone on the freighter new the mission was always ‘get ben’.
    - miles seems more like one of the thugs on the ship than one of the scientists. as much as the mercenaries, and crew, on the ship are getting paid by ‘whoever’, maybe miles is the point man on the island for the thugs/mercs. perhaps the 3.2 million dollars buys the mercenaries’ loyalty outright.
    - miles wanted the money in two days and ben said a week. maybe popping danielle and karl, then taking alexandra hostage, is an insurance policy of sorts for the mercenaries, until they get what they are asking for.

  211. Lins says:

    [quote comment="207381"]- miles wanted the money in two days and ben said a week.[/quote]

    Hmmm…how long has it been since Ben asked Miles to give him a week (in LOST time)? At least a few days, right?

  212. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="207381"]- been thinking alot about miles and the 3.2 million dollar request. we know miles is high strung. seems like everyone on the freighter new the mission was always ‘get ben’.
    - miles seems more like one of the thugs on the ship than one of the scientists. as much as the mercenaries, and crew, on the ship are getting paid by ‘whoever’, maybe miles is the point man on the island for the thugs/mercs. perhaps the 3.2 million dollars buys the mercenaries’ loyalty outright.
    - miles wanted the money in two days and ben said a week. maybe popping danielle and karl, then taking alexandra hostage, is an insurance policy of sorts for the mercenaries, until they get what they are asking for.[/quote]

    Glad to see you are still safe since we are hearing about attacks on the green zone.

    I don’t know what’s up with the 3.2 million. I thought it was odd that when Ben asked the obvious question of why 3.2, Miles gave hime the “you know why” look and Ben backed off. It was like the number of 3.2 was some sort of “inside info”.

  213. WTF says:

    [quote comment="206295"]Okay, I finally watched Confirmed Dead with enhancements tonight!

    Regarding the photos in the house in Inglewood, where Miles does his “ghostbusting,” I have yet another opinion! LOL

    When Miles first comes into the home, before he goes upstairs, we see the photo in a sort of bamboo-like frame. When he LEAVES the house, he passes the same wall, and on it is the SAME photo but in a gold shiny frame (and the photo has not been cropped).

    Here is what *I* think happened. I think that we were SUPPOSED to notice the photo (in the gold frame) in the shot at the end, but that when it was originally filmed, they did not get proper coverage with the camera to do so. I think they probably went BACK to that house and put the bamboo framed photo up (in error, should have put up the gold frame) along with some other photos and re-shot that first scene so that the camera could “hesitate” on the photo longer.

    I think it WAS a production error. Here is a page from Lostpedia which shows the two framed photos side-by-side:

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Mrs._Gardner%27s_grandson

    Just one more opinion to add to the mix!

    : ) P[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sorry to go back to the picture frames when you all have moved on, but catching up and had to read everything before commenting.

    About the frames being a production error…
    I know nothing about shooting a TV show, but why would they put all of these pictures in differnt frames anyway if it were not intentional. Once the scenes were shot, would they have not just been put away as is. To take them all out of one type of frame and put them back into another type of frame just does not make sense to me. If they had to do a reshoot, would they not just grab what they previously had from the prop room and use them?
    The change feels intentional to me. IMO.

  214. jaime says:

    Back in Season 2 “The Whole Truth” when Ben was “Henry Gale”, he drew a map for Ana Lucia. He told Locke and Jack “Of course, if I WAS one of them… what would I do? Well, there’d be no balloon, so I’d draw a map to a real secluded place like a cave or some underbrush..good place for a trap, an ambush.”

    Interesting….could this be what he did to Karl/Rousseau

  215. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207381"]- been thinking alot about miles and the 3.2 million dollar request. we know miles is high strung. seems like everyone on the freighter new the mission was always ‘get ben’.
    - miles seems more like one of the thugs on the ship than one of the scientists. as much as the mercenaries, and crew, on the ship are getting paid by ‘whoever’, maybe miles is the point man on the island for the thugs/mercs. perhaps the 3.2 million dollars buys the mercenaries’ loyalty outright.
    - miles wanted the money in two days and ben said a week. maybe popping danielle and karl, then taking alexandra hostage, is an insurance policy of sorts for the mercenaries, until they get what they are asking for.[/quote]
    I like that idea. I am thinking more and more that it was the freighties who shot them. But I am sure I will change my mind over the next 16 days. I agree with Hammer about 3.2 million being some sort of inside info or code. I am not a rich man, but if Miles has to split the ransom with Keamy and Omar and who knows who else, 3.2 doesn’t seem like enough money.

  216. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207399"][quote comment="207381"]- miles wanted the money in two days and ben said a week.[/quote]

    Hmmm…how long has it been since Ben asked Miles to give him a week (in LOST time)? At least a few days, right?[/quote]
    —————-
    Lostpedia has Miles asking for the money on December 25 and Karl and Rousseaou being shot on Dec. 29. I am not sure how accurate their timeline is though. They also have the Kahana two days behind the island. I am not sure if I agree with that.

  217. jaime says:

    [quote comment="207408"][quote comment="206295"]Okay, I finally watched Confirmed Dead with enhancements tonight!

    Regarding the photos in the house in Inglewood, where Miles does his “ghostbusting,” I have yet another opinion! LOL

    When Miles first comes into the home, before he goes upstairs, we see the photo in a sort of bamboo-like frame. When he LEAVES the house, he passes the same wall, and on it is the SAME photo but in a gold shiny frame (and the photo has not been cropped).

    Here is what *I* think happened. I think that we were SUPPOSED to notice the photo (in the gold frame) in the shot at the end, but that when it was originally filmed, they did not get proper coverage with the camera to do so. I think they probably went BACK to that house and put the bamboo framed photo up (in error, should have put up the gold frame) along with some other photos and re-shot that first scene so that the camera could “hesitate” on the photo longer.

    I think it WAS a production error. Here is a page from Lostpedia which shows the two framed photos side-by-side:

    http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Mrs._Gardner%27s_grandson

    Just one more opinion to add to the mix!

    : ) P[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sorry to go back to the picture frames when you all have moved on, but catching up and had to read everything before commenting.

    About the frames being a production error…
    I know nothing about shooting a TV show, but why would they put all of these pictures in differnt frames anyway if it were not intentional. Once the scenes were shot, would they have not just been put away as is. To take them all out of one type of frame and put them back into another type of frame just does not make sense to me. If they had to do a reshoot, would they not just grab what they previously had from the prop room and use them?
    The change feels intentional to me. IMO.[/quote]

    ############################################

    I was thinking the same thing…although I don’t have any ideas as to why they would be different. It could be one of those findings that we overanalyze but come to find out was nothing, could be significant to the future story arc.

  218. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207409"]Back in Season 2 “The Whole Truth” when Ben was “Henry Gale”, he drew a map for Ana Lucia. He told Locke and Jack “Of course, if I WAS one of them… what would I do? Well, there’d be no balloon, so I’d draw a map to a real secluded place like a cave or some underbrush..good place for a trap, an ambush.”

    Interesting….could this be what he did to Karl/Rousseau[/quote]
    There you go. Changing my mind again. Did you start re-watching all the episodes again? I did last week, but I am only up to Locke’s second FB. I find him very fascinating.

  219. jaime says:

    [quote comment="207414"][quote comment="207409"]Back in Season 2 “The Whole Truth” when Ben was “Henry Gale”, he drew a map for Ana Lucia. He told Locke and Jack “Of course, if I WAS one of them… what would I do? Well, there’d be no balloon, so I’d draw a map to a real secluded place like a cave or some underbrush..good place for a trap, an ambush.”

    Interesting….could this be what he did to Karl/Rousseau[/quote]
    There you go. Changing my mind again. Did you start re-watching all the episodes again? I did last week, but I am only up to Locke’s second FB. I find him very fascinating.[/quote]

    ##################################
    Yes i have been re-watching seasons 1 and 2 and when i saw this, i immediately thought of Karl/Rousseau
    I’ve always thought that it was someone from the freighter, possible someone we haven’t even seen yet, but when i saw this it made me go hmmmmmmmm

  220. Lins says:

    [quote comment="207416"][quote comment="207414"][quote comment="207409"]Back in Season 2 “The Whole Truth” when Ben was “Henry Gale”, he drew a map for Ana Lucia. He told Locke and Jack “Of course, if I WAS one of them… what would I do? Well, there’d be no balloon, so I’d draw a map to a real secluded place like a cave or some underbrush..good place for a trap, an ambush.”

    Interesting….could this be what he did to Karl/Rousseau[/quote]
    There you go. Changing my mind again. Did you start re-watching all the episodes again? I did last week, but I am only up to Locke’s second FB. I find him very fascinating.[/quote]

    ##################################
    Yes i have been re-watching seasons 1 and 2 and when i saw this, i immediately thought of Karl/Rousseau
    I’ve always thought that it was someone from the freighter, possible someone we haven’t even seen yet, but when i saw this it made me go hmmmmmmmm[/quote]

    ********************
    I agree, I’ve always thought it was Ben’s people that attacked them. They are well-trained. Ethan took out Jin in S1, and Mr. Friendly took out Michael pretty easy in S2(?)…they also used those blow dart thingies to take down Jack and Kate and Sawyer at the end of S2. They’re trained for these sneak attacks.

  221. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="207408"]About the frames being a production error… I know nothing about shooting a TV show, but why would they put all of these pictures in differnt frames anyway if it were not intentional. Once the scenes were shot, would they have not just been put away as is. To take them all out of one type of frame and put them back into another type of frame just does not make sense to me. If they had to do a reshoot, would they not just grab what they previously had from the prop room and use them?
    The change feels intentional to me. IMO.[/quote]

    It may well BE intentional.

    However, I think what is likely is that they had several versions of the photo from which the set designer could pick. Then, shooting was over and the crew took the pictures out of the home (they regularly say they are using actual homes which is unusual in television). The director or editor saw the cut, felt that stopping on the photo was not significant enough on the first shoot, and sent a crew back to capture just that footage again. Different day, different set designer, grabbed the wrong frame.

    This is, of course, entirely speculation, but I really feel as if it is not significant enough to be purposeful.

    : ) Petra

  222. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin wasn’t one of the two “survivors” in Jack’s made-up story – Jin’s tombstone said he died on Sept 22, 2004, the date of the plane crash.

  223. leah says:

    [quote comment="207127"][quote comment="207093"][quote comment="207078"][quote comment="207072"]I think the purge happened more than 16 years ago, otherwise Rousseau would have been gassed as well.[/quote]
    It depends on where the gassing occurred. In that particular episode, I think the gassing occurred at the barracks and Ben gassed his father in the van. If the gassing affects the whole island then yes, I agree with you. However, as was stated in comment 187, Ben says NOT SO LONG AGO. Maybe 16 years is not that long for Ben.[/quote]

    **************
    And Rousseau lived underground…maybe that helped?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    The fact that Ben had to use a seperate can of gas to kill his father would indicate that Rousseau would just have to be a mile or two away to be safe. It’s a big island.[/quote]
    ///////////////////
    and rousseau lived on a different island did she not??

  224. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207617"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin wasn’t one of the two “survivors” in Jack’s made-up story – Jin’s tombstone said he died on Sept 22, 2004, the date of the plane crash.[/quote]
    ————–
    Excellent point, AGAIN, toeknee. Now do you know which 2 survived? Or does it even matter….I am not sure about Claire either. Did Kate claim Aaron as her own? Just pondering.
    15 days left…..and then NEXT February, I think. ( in my opinion Jan. 31 is Feb. ) 16 weeks for the next 2 years. Sweeps is in May, and I think these “breaks” are awful. Agin JMO.

  225. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207666"]
    and rousseau lived on a different island did she not??[/quote]
    ————
    Not in the first season. Sayid went to map out the beach front on their island. Then he found the wire in the sand and walked the wrong way. He fell in one of Danielle’s traps and became her prisoner.

  226. leah says:

    [quote comment="207674"][quote comment="207666"]
    and rousseau lived on a different island did she not??[/quote]
    ————
    Not in the first season. Sayid went to map out the beach front on their island. Then he found the wire in the sand and walked the wrong way. He fell in one of Danielle’s traps and became her prisoner.[/quote]
    ////////////////
    yes but that was a different island to where the gas was ? ……….in fact when ben was showing sawyer ,Didnt he say they worked on one island and lived on the other.it was the one they lived on that was gassed .

  227. tret says:

    If you want to be the most powerful in game, you should have the enough
    Wow gold then you can buy the best weapons, equipment, etc. But Farming
    wow Gold is very boring and waste a lot of time.

  228. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="207687"]
    yes but that was a different island to where the gas was ? ……….in fact when ben was showing sawyer ,Didnt he say they worked on one island and lived on the other.it was the one they lived on that was gassed .[/quote]
    What Ben showed Sawyer was the island they lived on, as seen from the Hydra island, the island they work on. After the Others captured Sawyer, Kate and Jack at the end of season 2, they took them off the main island to Hydra island where they were held prisoner. Remember, eventually Sawyer and Kate escaped, and took a small boat (with Karl) back to the main island. Based on what we’ve been shown, Sawyer, Kate and Jack are the only non-Others who have been to Hydra island.

  229. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="207671"][quote comment="207617"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin wasn’t one of the two “survivors” in Jack’s made-up story – Jin’s tombstone said he died on Sept 22, 2004, the date of the plane crash.[/quote]
    ————–
    Excellent point, AGAIN, toeknee. Now do you know which 2 survived? Or does it even matter….I am not sure about Claire either. Did Kate claim Aaron as her own? Just pondering.
    15 days left…..and then NEXT February, I think. ( in my opinion Jan. 31 is Feb. ) 16 weeks for the next 2 years. Sweeps is in May, and I think these “breaks” are awful. Agin JMO.[/quote]

    +++++++++++++
    Okay, to get nit picky, it still could be Jin because Jack’s story hasn’t told us WHEN the two that died actually died. He said that they landed in the water, “she tried to save the other two, but they didn’t…”. Since we were told that the other “two” are insignificant to the story, they may have died on 9-22-04.

    I’m going to go with it just doesn’t matter until the story says it does. We don’t have definate reasons to believe that the two Jack speaks about are actually going to be dead. They may just be stuck on the island and that MIGHT be why D&C say it’s not important.

  230. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="207788"]
    Okay, to get nit picky, it still could be Jin because Jack’s story hasn’t told us WHEN the two that died actually died. He said that they landed in the water, “she tried to save the other two, but they didn’t…”. Since we were told that the other “two” are insignificant to the story, they may have died on 9-22-04.

    I’m going to go with it just doesn’t matter until the story says it does. We don’t have definate reasons to believe that the two Jack speaks about are actually going to be dead. They may just be stuck on the island and that MIGHT be why D&C say it’s not important.[/quote]

    I agree that it’s possible that Jin may have survived the crash yet still died on 9/22. I don’t think that will end up being part of the cover-up story – I didn’t interpret Jack’s statements that way – but I agree that it’s possible. Therefore, I retract my comment (#223) that Jin is not one of the other two survivors. My apologies, Bobbi.

    I agree that who the two are is not important. I assume we will eventually be told who the two are, because I assume that when we see the actual circumstances of the rescue, we will be told the reason for the fake story, and consequently we will find out what the fake story is.

    I agree that the two Jack mentioned may not be dead in reality (er, um, in the reality of Lost).

    I agree that this is all being nitpicky. But this is what happens when we are deprived of new episodes. :)

  231. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="207826"]I agree that it’s possible that Jin may have survived the crash yet still died on 9/22. I don’t think that will end up being part of the cover-up story – I didn’t interpret Jack’s statements that way – but I agree that it’s possible. Therefore, I retract my comment (#223) that Jin is not one of the other two survivors. My apologies, Bobbi.

    I agree that who the two are is not important. I assume we will eventually be told who the two are, because I assume that when we see the actual circumstances of the rescue, we will be told the reason for the fake story, and consequently we will find out what the fake story is.

    I agree that the two Jack mentioned may not be dead in reality (er, um, in the reality of Lost).

    I agree that this is all being nitpicky. But this is what happens when we are deprived of new episodes. :)[/quote]

    Now see, I agree that the two that “survived, then died” is NOT important, but I think that the reason it was brought up that Jin may have been one of those two, is because we know he had to “survive” long enough to get Sun pregnant. Since his gravestone says he didn’t, then I have to guess that they will say Sun was pregnant when she got on the plane (unless she tells everyone they joined the mile high club *evil grin*).

    Now I fully admit that I am tempting fate by even mentioning it, but I think it IS worth noting… we have had 220+ posts and NO *C* talk! Yay us!

    : ) P

  232. Hammer says:

    Just wanted to throw out a hiatus observation:

    Many folks have tried to make sense of Locke’s statement that “things never stay buried” on the island. I was thinking that it was Locke’s way of warning Paolo that the island’s kharma would be claiming him soon(since D&C said that the spider=monster). I really think that Locke is past his infancy of learning about the island and is in his “formative stage”…and he IS “special”. I am waiting to see if he(and Ben for that matter) get “visions” or “readings” about people. Locke seems to be getting better at judging who is trustworthy and who isn’t. We went through a stage when we thought he was just screwing up everyone’s chances of getting off the island, but it’s coming together more and more that he doing “the right thing”.

  233. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207890"]Just wanted to throw out a hiatus observation:

    Many folks have tried to make sense of Locke’s statement that “things never stay buried” on the island. I was thinking that it was Locke’s way of warning Paolo that the island’s kharma would be claiming him soon(since D&C said that the spider=monster). I really think that Locke is past his infancy of learning about the island and is in his “formative stage”…and he IS “special”. I am waiting to see if he(and Ben for that matter) get “visions” or “readings” about people. Locke seems to be getting better at judging who is trustworthy and who isn’t. We went through a stage when we thought he was just screwing up everyone’s chances of getting off the island, but it’s coming together more and more that he doing “the right thing”.[/quote]
    I think Rose might disagree with you. Who is he doing “the right thing” for?

  234. Michael says:

    Defiantly agree that Locke is becoming the man on the island but Ben keeps screwing it up for him with his mind games. I think that is one of the reasons why Ben leaves or is forced off the island. Locke becomes Alpha Dog.

    Question- Jacks story, Kate saves them. Where does she save them to? Where they found on a raft or make it to an island. If so where? Any thoughts or doe we just have to wait for them to tell us.

  235. Michael says:

    So after so many years of the other living “peacefully” on the island alone Things get all botched up. Two days before the plane crash Ben finds out he has cancer… wait he lied about that. When Juliet was talking to him about what she had found she did not say cancer, he did. So he knew longer than the two days. So Ben has cancer on his spine on an island where people do not have cancer. Some time later a plane crashes with a spinal surgeon. Anyone think that the island/ Jacob is testing Ben to see if he puts his own life over the greater good of the island. Picket had muttered that jack was not on the list.

  236. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207915"]Defiantly agree that Locke is becoming the man on the island but Ben keeps screwing it up for him with his mind games. I think that is one of the reasons why Ben leaves or is forced off the island. Locke becomes Alpha Dog.

    Question- Jacks story, Kate saves them. Where does she save them to? Where they found on a raft or make it to an island. If so where? Any thoughts or doe we just have to wait for them to tell us.[/quote]
    That’s a good point. Locke is special. He defintely serves someone’s purpose. But why have his “visons” stopped? He had no idea what to do next until Ben told him.

    When we se Ben in Sayid’s FF, I never really thought he was forced off the island. I assumed he was still working from the island. He just ran out of cronies to do his off-island dirty work.

  237. RGS says:

    [quote comment="207921"]So after so many years of the other living “peacefully” on the island alone Things get all botched up. Two days before the plane crash Ben finds out he has cancer… wait he lied about that. When Juliet was talking to him about what she had found she did not say cancer, he did. So he knew longer than the two days. So Ben has cancer on his spine on an island where people do not have cancer. Some time later a plane crashes with a spinal surgeon. Anyone think that the island/ Jacob is testing Ben to see if he puts his own life over the greater good of the island. Picket had muttered that jack was not on the list.[/quote]

    I’m a little confused about this. Are you sure that Ben is lying? I thought that Jack not only also saw the X-rays, but removed the tumor.

  238. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207857"]
    Now see, I agree that the two that “survived, then died” is NOT important, but I think that the reason it was brought up that Jin may have been one of those two, is because we know he had to “survive” long enough to get Sun pregnant.

    : ) P[/quote]
    —————
    The gravestone is the date of the crash. Their story is that Jin died the DAY of the crash. Even if Jin is one of the 2, he survived the crash, impregnated Sun and then died the same day?
    The story must be that she was pregnant before the flight IMO.

  239. Michael says:

    I’m a little confused about this. Are you sure that Ben is lying? I thought that Jack not only also saw the X-rays, but removed the tumor.

    _++_+_+_+_+_+_+

    Sorry. I wasn’t clear with that. Ben tells Jack the two days before the plane crash he found out that he had cancer.

    Before that, after she takes the X-ray she has a sit down with Ben. She tells Ben that she found something on his spine. Ben said something to the effect that he had cancer. Then Juliet said that she never told him that.

    It came off as he already new. Sorry, i have to re-watch it for exact quotes.

    Ben was lying about the time line not the cancer.

  240. Michael says:

    So Ben has cancer on his spine on an island where people do not have cancer. Some time later a plane crashes with a spinal surgeon. Anyone think that the island/ Jacob is testing Ben to see if he puts his own life over the greater good of the island.

    Ben has Jack captured along with Kate and Sawyer to save his life. Picket had muttered that jack was not on the list. Is Ben going against Jacob will to save his own life.

    Alpert seems to think that Bens not worthy of his position any longer. He was a Hostile and would know of Jacob well. He seemed to help Locke. Jacob has seem to help Locke. He can walk. Gave him his Father.

    On that note, it seems that Ben is trying to replace Alpert with Sayid. Having Sayid as his man off the Island.

  241. Michael says:

    That’s a good point. Locke is special. He definitely serves someone’s purpose. But why have his “visions” stopped? He had no idea what to do next until Ben told him.

    When we se Ben in Sayid’s FF, I never really thought he was forced off the island. I assumed he was still working from the island. He just ran out of cronies to do his off-island dirty work.

    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    I wish I knew. All I can come up with is both Ben and Locke are being tested.

    With him being of the island. It appears his people have been disbanded. Although he still can manipulate things, he is not in total control. TO me it appears he is doing more things for him self than the island. Alpert make a remark that they should be putting more effort into some of there other projects besides the pregnancy which Ben is strongly for probably because of Juliet which he won’t let leave because “She is his”.

  242. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207951"]. Alpert make a remark that they should be putting more effort into some of there other projects besides the pregnancy which Ben is strongly for probably because of Juliet which he won’t let leave because “She is his”.[/quote]
    —————
    I think the original issue of pregnancy has something to do with Annie. I think we might see that in the next Ben FB, at least I hope one of the 5 remaining is his. Has anyone ever speculated that ANNIE, could be Annie Widmore? I think the death of Annie initiated the purge.

  243. jaime says:

    [quote comment="207926"][quote comment="207915"]Defiantly agree that Locke is becoming the man on the island but Ben keeps screwing it up for him with his mind games. I think that is one of the reasons why Ben leaves or is forced off the island. Locke becomes Alpha Dog.[/quote]
    *****************************************
    That’s a good point. Locke is special. He defintely serves someone’s purpose. But why have his “visons” stopped? He had no idea what to do next until Ben told him.

    [/quote]
    ########################################
    I beleive the island was hopeful that Locke was “the one” to take over Ben’s position. (Ben has been deemed “not a good person” which is why he was able to get the tumor). Jacob saw Locke, and his attraction toward the island, as the one who could help him. (Help him in what way, I’m not sure) He/the Island gave Locke “special” abilities. Locke’s decent as a good person made the island weary of his ability and thus stopped his visions until he gets back on the track to the right and true. I beleive Jacob thought Hurley was the next best “good person” thus giving him the opportunity to see the cabin.

    Just my thoughts off the top of my head
    It’s so hard to relay theories…all comes out like a jumble of words

  244. Rita says:

    I’ve been thinking about Juliet. I can’t put my finger on it fully yet, but I don’t think she is what she seems to be. I now believe that Juliet is STILL working for Ben (against the losties and whomever). When she got “left behind” by the others (and handcuffed to Kate), she later admitted that that was staged, and she was working for Ben. However, she didn’t admit it until she was in the lostie camp and no one trusted her. She could have easily told PART of the truth, that she was working for Ben in THAT instance, in order to gain the trust of the losties. She could appear to work with them, even against Ben, without doing any real damage to Ben. She hasn’t tried to actually hurt Ben, nor has he tired to hurt her. Yes, she wants desperately to leave the island. She could have struck another bargain with Ben: that if she gained the trust of the losties and appeared to work against him (for who knows what purpose), he would arrange for her to leave. She would know he could do it too. She knows what he can do and would be more likely to put her trust in him than in anyone. I expect to see one day a scene where Juliet and Ben are talking:
    Juliet: No one knows, they all trust me now, They think I am one of them.
    Ben: Good. Keep it up awhile longer. I just need a little more time.
    Juliet: I’m going to have to hit you or break something small, like a finger or nose, in order to make this believeable.
    Ben: OK, how about if I fake a broken arm? I’m a great faker.

  245. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207966"]I’ve been thinking about Juliet. I can’t put my finger on it fully yet, but I don’t think she is what she seems to be. I now believe that Juliet is STILL working for Ben (against the losties and whomever). When she got “left behind” by the others (and handcuffed to Kate), she later admitted that that was staged, and she was working for Ben. However, she didn’t admit it until she was in the lostie camp and no one trusted her. She could have easily told PART of the truth, that she was working for Ben in THAT instance, in order to gain the trust of the losties. She could appear to work with them, even against Ben, without doing any real damage to Ben. She hasn’t tried to actually hurt Ben, nor has he tired to hurt her. Yes, she wants desperately to leave the island. She could have struck another bargain with Ben: that if she gained the trust of the losties and appeared to work against him (for who knows what purpose), he would arrange for her to leave. She would know he could do it too. She knows what he can do and would be more likely to put her trust in him than in anyone. I expect to see one day a scene where Juliet and Ben are talking:
    Juliet: No one knows, they all trust me now, They think I am one of them.
    Ben: Good. Keep it up awhile longer. I just need a little more time.
    Juliet: I’m going to have to hit you or break something small, like a finger or nose, in order to make this believeable.
    Ben: OK, how about if I fake a broken arm? I’m a great faker.[/quote]
    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that is true. Juliet still working for Ben. Although, after failing her last mission for Ben, he might not feel the same way.

  246. Rita says:

    [quote comment="207978"][quote comment=”207966 [/quote]
    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that is true. Juliet still working for Ben. Although, after failing her last mission for Ben, he might not feel the same way.[/quote]
    ****************************
    Even still, that COULD have also been a fake-out, to cement the idea that she is a true lostie now, AGAINST Ben. It’s possible. It would explain to me my vague feelings of distrust for her. It’s not that I don’t LIKE her, I just don’t TRUST her!

  247. PJSander says:

    *NEWS*

    Earlier, I tried to post a link to news from Michael Ausiello (TV GUIDE dot com), but my post got rejected as possible spam.

    I will cut and paste this possible, potential great news!
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
    From tvguide . com

    “According to one of my 815 snitches, Team Darlton is in advanced talks with ABC to produce — wait for it, wait for it — an additional hour of Lost this season!

    [The crowd roars]

    Now, before you go French-kissing a total stranger out of sheer elation, my source stresses that this is by no means a done deal. In fact, the scheduling hurdles alone are enough to make a grown man cry. But you have to admit, the prospect of a 14th hour is a tantalizing one. And it raises so darn many questions. For instance:

    • If the dream becomes a reality, how would it work? As it stands, Lost’s Season 4 climax is slated to air on May 22 on a season-finale-themed night that also includes the cappers of Ugly Betty and Grey’s Anatomy. So would the additional Lost hour be broadcast the following Thursday? Or would it perhaps run on another night?

    • What does this do to the finale that was going to air on May 22? Would elements of it be incorporated into the new finale? Would this 14th hour come before that episode? And since we were originally supposed to get 16 eppies this season before the strike cut that number back to 13, does this mean we would now be getting a season finale that is more in line with what Darlton intended? Or more exposition that they ran out of time to include? The mind boggles.”

    - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    As yet, no confirmation on ABC’s website… but we can hope.

    Now. What to do tomorrow when there isn’t even a REPEAT episode! Ack.

    Next LAA meeting is…?

    : ) P

  248. Michael says:

    [quote comment="207986"][quote comment="207978"][quote comment=”207966 [/quote]
    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that is true. Juliet still working for Ben. Although, after failing her last mission for Ben, he might not feel the same way.[/quote]
    ****************************
    Even still, that COULD have also been a fake-out, to cement the idea that she is a true lostie now, AGAINST Ben. It’s possible. It would explain to me my vague feelings of distrust for her. It’s not that I don’t LIKE her, I just don’t TRUST her![/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_

    Time and time again she has expressed the dislike for Ben yet still believes him and does what he asks. I don’t see her not helping Ben until she believes he can do nothing fo r her, then he might kill her.

  249. Lins says:

    Something interesting I remembered when re-watching…Nadia also came from a wealthy family (like Sun and Penny) and it was told to Sayid by the CIA lady that Nadia was working as a lab tech at a medical facility in LA. Could be a Dharma or Mittelos connection? Who knows! Just interesting that these three girls have such wealthy families.

  250. Toeknee says:

    I thought this was funny:

  251. Rita says:

    [quote comment="208131"]I thought this was funny:

    ******************
    Yes it was! Thanks ToeKnee!

  252. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="208157"][quote comment="208131"]I thought this was funny:

    ******************
    Yes it was! Thanks ToeKnee![/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Um…what?

  253. leah says:

    [quote comment="208131"]I thought this was funny:

    bang off.

  254. Trixanna says:

    LOL!!! That was pretty funny. Question though, who has time to do that??? I guess that’s what one can resort to in the absense of Lost!!! Too funny!

  255. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="207409"]Back in Season 2 “The Whole Truth” when Ben was “Henry Gale”, he drew a map for Ana Lucia. He told Locke and Jack “Of course, if I WAS one of them… what would I do? Well, there’d be no balloon, so I’d draw a map to a real secluded place like a cave or some underbrush..good place for a trap, an ambush.”

    Interesting….could this be what he did to Karl/Rousseau[/quote]
    Ben knew who Henry Gale was correct? He knew details about him. Why would he leave his wallet on him? I am not saying he killed him, but he knew of his whereabouts. That whole experience, his capture, interrogation, time spent with Locke, and his release, all seem a little fishy to me.

  256. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="207857"]Now I fully admit that I am tempting fate by even mentioning it, but I think it IS worth noting… we have had 220+ posts and NO *C* talk! Yay us!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I feel like beating a dead horse. :)

    For grins, what if Sayid and the rest of the O6 hijack the heli (since I think it is back on the island with a group of folks shooting Karl and Danielle) and bring along the O2. These O2 get the “side effects” and die somewhere between the island and final rescue, therefore they need the story of 8 reduced to two?

    This would also explain why there ever be an O6 since Ben’s and Widmore’s groups BOTH wouldn’t want anyone to get off this island?

  257. jaime says:

    [quote comment="208684"][quote comment="207409"]Back in Season 2 “The Whole Truth” when Ben was “Henry Gale”, he drew a map for Ana Lucia. He told Locke and Jack “Of course, if I WAS one of them… what would I do? Well, there’d be no balloon, so I’d draw a map to a real secluded place like a cave or some underbrush..good place for a trap, an ambush.”

    Interesting….could this be what he did to Karl/Rousseau[/quote]
    Ben knew who Henry Gale was correct? He knew details about him. Why would he leave his wallet on him? I am not saying he killed him, but he knew of his whereabouts. That whole experience, his capture, interrogation, time spent with Locke, and his release, all seem a little fishy to me.[/quote]

    #########################################
    Well, Ethan and Goodwin didn’t do a very good job infiltrating the losties so maybe Ben decided to take it upon himself to get captured. The only thing though is the way he was caught. I seem to remember Rousseau setting a trap for an Other by using one of the dolls that Annie had made. Does anyone remember if it was the boy or girl doll?

  258. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="208736"][quote comment="207857"]Now I fully admit that I am tempting fate by even mentioning it, but I think it IS worth noting… we have had 220+ posts and NO *C* talk! Yay us!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I feel like beating a dead horse. :)

    For grins, what if Sayid and the rest of the O6 hijack the heli (since I think it is back on the island with a group of folks shooting Karl and Danielle) and bring along the O2. These O2 get the “side effects” and die somewhere between the island and final rescue, therefore they need the story of 8 reduced to two?

    This would also explain why there ever be an O6 since Ben’s and Widmore’s groups BOTH wouldn’t want anyone to get off this island?[/quote]
    —————
    I like that idea of them hijacking the chopper. It is going to be interesting to see exactly how Sayid joins the rest of the O6. He is stll on the freighter and the other 5 are still on the island.
    I am not sure if Ben wont mind the O6 getting of the island. He might need them at some future point, ala Michael, Sayid, maybe even Aaron someday.

  259. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="208760"]
    Well, Ethan and Goodwin didn’t do a very good job infiltrating the losties so maybe Ben decided to take it upon himself to get captured. The only thing though is the way he was caught. I seem to remember Rousseau setting a trap for an Other by using one of the dolls that Annie had made. Does anyone remember if it was the boy or girl doll?[/quote]
    I don’t think that was the episode with the “doll trap”. I think it was Kate who fell for that one when she and Jack were “caught in the net”.
    Sayid finds Danielle in the jungle and she leads him to Benry already in the net. Sayid cuts him free and he tries to escape. Then Danielle shoots him with a crossbow.

  260. jaime says:

    [quote comment="208777"][quote comment="208760"]
    Well, Ethan and Goodwin didn’t do a very good job infiltrating the losties so maybe Ben decided to take it upon himself to get captured. The only thing though is the way he was caught. I seem to remember Rousseau setting a trap for an Other by using one of the dolls that Annie had made. Does anyone remember if it was the boy or girl doll?[/quote]
    I don’t think that was the episode with the “doll trap”. I think it was Kate who fell for that one when she and Jack were “caught in the net”.
    Sayid finds Danielle in the jungle and she leads him to Benry already in the net. Sayid cuts him free and he tries to escape. Then Danielle shoots him with a crossbow.[/quote]

    #############################
    Yes, you’re right. We do not know how Ben fell for her trap. Interesting….all the other traps she has set, we have known how the person set if off, not Ben’s though

  261. Michael says:

    So Ben gets caught in Danielle’s trap, then arrowed and survives. Then Danielle gets caught in one of Bens traps, shot and survives. Somethin fishy there.

  262. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="208824"]So Ben gets caught in Danielle’s trap, then arrowed and survives. Then Danielle gets caught in one of Bens traps, shot and survives. Somethin fishy there.[/quote]
    Are we sure that was one of Ben’s traps? His traps seem a little more elaborate.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if you are right though. There is definitely something not right between Ben and Danielle. I wonder when Henry Gale crashed on the island?
    And how did he exactly get his balloon over the island? This UNREACHABLE place.

  263. Michael says:

    [quote comment="208971"][quote comment="208824"]So Ben gets caught in Danielle’s trap, then arrowed and survives. Then Danielle gets caught in one of Bens traps, shot and survives. Somethin fishy there.[/quote]
    Are we sure that was one of Ben’s traps? His traps seem a little more elaborate.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if you are right though. There is definitely something not right between Ben and Danielle. I wonder when Henry Gale crashed on the island?
    And how did he exactly get his balloon over the island? This UNREACHABLE place.[/quote]

    _+_+_+_+_+_+_

    Did the balloon have a Dharma symbol on it? What if he didn’t come to the island? But was trying to leave it. That might explain why Ben knows so much about him and why he is dead.

  264. Michael says:

    Are we sure that was one of Ben’s traps? His traps seem a little more elaborate.

    +_+_+_+_+_
    No, we are not sure. But a lot of pieces fit to conclude it’s him.

  265. leah says:

    Did the balloon have a Dharma symbol on it? What if he didn’t come to the island? But was trying to leave it. That might explain why Ben knows so much about him and why he is dead.

    //////////////
    I think the balloon had the widmore logo on it …or was it a smiley face………?

  266. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="209161"]
    Did the balloon have a Dharma symbol on it? What if he didn’t come to the island? But was trying to leave it. That might explain why Ben knows so much about him and why he is dead.[/quote]ey was
    Henry had 4 or 5 sponsors on his balloon. Widmore being one, I think Hurley was also. What year did Henry Gale “crash” on the island? and was he wearing POLYESTER?

  267. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="208971]
    And how did he exactly get his balloon over the island? This UNREACHABLE place.[/quote]
    This island is hardly “UNREACHABLE”…there is a “door way”. The Black Rock, Yemi’s plane, Henry’s balloon, Danielle’s boat, Desmond’s boat, ALL of the DHARMA craft, Flight 815 and lastley the helicopters. Pretty obvious how the balloon got there.

    Also, I thought there was something fishy with Ben and Danielle even before she made the statement about surviving the island for sixteen years by avoiding the Others In the “Enter 77″ episode. This comment sparked a good debate in the “Enter 77″ and “Who is Danielle Rousseau” threads.

  268. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="209592"][quote comment="208971]
    And how did he exactly get his balloon over the island? This UNREACHABLE place.[/quote]
    This island is hardly “UNREACHABLE”…there is a “door way”. The Black Rock, Yemi’s plane, Henry’s balloon, Danielle’s boat, Desmond’s boat, ALL of the DHARMA craft, Flight 815 and lastley the helicopters. Pretty obvious how the balloon got there.
    quote]
    I guess I should have used the term “seemingly” unreachable. Obvioulsy there is a way to get on and off the island or we would not have a show to talk about. Please enlighten me on how and when the balloon crashed. I must have missed the FB with the Real Henry Gale.

  269. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="209622"][quote comment="209592"][quote comment="208971]
    And how did he exactly get his balloon over the island? This UNREACHABLE place.[/quote]
    This island is hardly “UNREACHABLE”…there is a “door way”. The Black Rock, Yemi’s plane, Henry’s balloon, Danielle’s boat, Desmond’s boat, ALL of the DHARMA craft, Flight 815 and lastley the helicopters. Pretty obvious how the balloon got there.
    quote]
    I guess I should have used the term “seemingly” unreachable. Obvioulsy there is a way to get on and off the island or we would not have a show to talk about. Please enlighten me on how and when the balloon crashed. I must have missed the FB with the Real Henry Gale.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    No FB with the real Henr Gale. Sayid found his body burried with his wifes near the balloon. Don’t think we know when it crashed. Ben had said several weeks or months ago but that dosn’t gaurentee timeline.

  270. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="209673"][quote comment="209622"][quote comment="209592"][quote comment="208971]
    And how did he exactly get his balloon over the island? This UNREACHABLE place.[/quote]
    This island is hardly “UNREACHABLE”…there is a “door way”. The Black Rock, Yemi’s plane, Henry’s balloon, Danielle’s boat, Desmond’s boat, ALL of the DHARMA craft, Flight 815 and lastley the helicopters. Pretty obvious how the balloon got there.
    quote]
    I guess I should have used the term “seemingly” unreachable. Obvioulsy there is a way to get on and off the island or we would not have a show to talk about. Please enlighten me on how and when the balloon crashed. I must have missed the FB with the Real Henry Gale.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    No FB with the real Henr Gale. Sayid found his body burried with his wifes near the balloon. Don’t think we know when it crashed. Ben had said several weeks or months ago but that dosn’t gaurentee timeline.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++
    The only clues I can find about time are:

    Henry would have been 40 years old when the show started (if he were alive).

    His driver’s liscense expired in ’03. Not conclusive, but he likely arrived before it expired and would have expected to be home in time to renew?

    May just be prop issue, but the $20.00 bill was put into circlulation in October of 2003.

  271. Hammer says:

    I was reading a post from a different site from lady (don’t remember her name) refering to Miles’ apparent ability to talk to the dead. Her take was that maybe he uses electromagnetics to do the concious time time and talks to them in a different time. Maybe the dust buster was used to create electromagnetism(which he didn’t need on the island to talk to Naomi). She based this on when he was talking to Naomi, he said in reverse language “you have to see this through”. Which could be interpreted as he was talking to before she made it too the island.

    It’s interesting, but doesn’t explain how she could tell him that the story is true about who killed her if he was talking to her before she got there?

  272. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="207205"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin and Claire. Claire gave birth after the crash and wasn’t a O6.[/quote]

    Yeah but we don’t know if the ‘world’ knows Claire is Aaron’s mom. She would be the other of the two survivors Jack spoke on stand about if the world knows she had a baby on island. But if Kate brought the baby home claiming to be his mother, then the world wouldn’t necessarily know about Claire.
    We know that the world all knew Kate was a fugitive. I can’t imagine she just returns with a baby and says it was Claire’s wish that she adopts him. Processes would still need to be followed and I’m not sure they’d just allow her to adopt him while fighting trial.
    Also, how’d she get the big house she owns if she was arrested upon arrival to ‘real world’. Seems so strange to me, the whole thing.

  273. Bobbi says:

    ToeKnee, No apologies needed! (post 231)

    I was just figuring that Sun being in the spotlight of the O6, she’d be subject to speculation on how she got pregnant on island. People would be able to count and know when she got pregnant it seems. But I hadn’t realized Jin’s grave said Sept 22…hmmm.

    I know they said it wasn’t relevant who the two were, but I still don’t believe that. They had to ‘account’ for those two people for some reason, whoever they are. While it may not be of huge significance, it sure is intriguing to see why they needed to come up with two almost-survivors.

  274. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="210350"]Good article

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20190415,00.html/quote
    Beware…full of spoilers.

  275. jaime says:

    [quote comment="208684"][quote comment="207409"]
    Ben knew who Henry Gale was correct? He knew details about him. Why would he leave his wallet on him? I am not saying he killed him, but he knew of his whereabouts. That whole experience, his capture, interrogation, time spent with Locke, and his release, all seem a little fishy to me.[/quote]

    #####################
    I’m thinking that Ben definantely saw Henry when he got to the island. Whether Henry was alive or badly hurt from the balloon wreck, I have a feling that Ben was there when it crashed into the tree and possibly got information out of him. All speculation till they give me more to go on.

  276. jaime says:

    [quote comment="210368"][quote comment="210350"]Good article

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20190415,00.html/quote
    Beware…full of spoilers.[/quote]
    *********************
    Ya, I started to read and then had to stop.

  277. Brandie says:

    I am wondering what the deal is with Jacob. I recently went back and watched all 3 of the previous seasons and before Locke left the cabbin I noticed that he did catch a view of this “Jacob”. And is that how Locke was really saved from the gun shot wound thanks to Ben? Was it jacob who saved him? Or the Island itself? Any ideas? I am also curious about the beginning of an eppisode I saw. There was a bunch of people in the desert digging up somebones and then a woman(I am not sure who) shows up and says its a polar bear and it has one of the Dharma Inititive collar on it…… what’s up with that? I thought the island was the only place on earth with special powers. If that’s the case why is Dharma in other places as well doing the same things?

  278. Brandie says:

    [quote comment="209965"][quote comment="207205"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin and Claire. Claire gave birth after the crash and wasn’t a O6.[/quote]

    Yeah but we don’t know if the ‘world’ knows Claire is Aaron’s mom. She would be the other of the two survivors Jack spoke on stand about if the world knows she had a baby on island. But if Kate brought the baby home claiming to be his mother, then the world wouldn’t necessarily know about Claire.
    We know that the world all knew Kate was a fugitive. I can’t imagine she just returns with a baby and says it was Claire’s wish that she adopts him. Processes would still need to be followed and I’m not sure they’d just allow her to adopt him while fighting trial.
    Also, how’d she get the big house she owns if she was arrested upon arrival to ‘real world’. Seems so strange to me, the whole thing.[/quote]

    And another thing, I thought the psychic said the baby was not suppose to be raised by anyone else and he knew about the crash…..if thats the case then wouldnt he know claire would die?

  279. Michael says:

    [quote comment="211260"]I am wondering what the deal is with Jacob. I recently went back and watched all 3 of the previous seasons and before Locke left the cabbin I noticed that he did catch a view of this “Jacob”. And is that how Locke was really saved from the gun shot wound thanks to Ben? Was it jacob who saved him? Or the Island itself? Any ideas? I am also curious about the beginning of an eppisode I saw. There was a bunch of people in the desert digging up somebones and then a woman(I am not sure who) shows up and says its a polar bear and it has one of the Dharma Inititive collar on it…… what’s up with that? I thought the island was the only place on earth with special powers. If that’s the case why is Dharma in other places as well doing the same things?[/quote]
    _++_+_+_+_+_+

    The faith healer in Australia Tells rose that there are different spots on the earth that have powers.

  280. Michael says:

    [quote comment="211261"][quote comment="209965"][quote comment="207205"][quote comment="207143"]I know they said that it wasn’t important that Jack revealed on the witness stand that two survivors died on the island. But I don’t think that is the case. I think we know that one of those two people was Jin, because they had to account for why his wife got pregnant on the island. So since they had to account for that, I’d like to know who else they had to account for in their ‘island lies’. I think their story that two survivors died is significant afterall.[/quote]
    Jin and Claire. Claire gave birth after the crash and wasn’t a O6.[/quote]

    Yeah but we don’t know if the ‘world’ knows Claire is Aaron’s mom. She would be the other of the two survivors Jack spoke on stand about if the world knows she had a baby on island. But if Kate brought the baby home claiming to be his mother, then the world wouldn’t necessarily know about Claire.
    We know that the world all knew Kate was a fugitive. I can’t imagine she just returns with a baby and says it was Claire’s wish that she adopts him. Processes would still need to be followed and I’m not sure they’d just allow her to adopt him while fighting trial.
    Also, how’d she get the big house she owns if she was arrested upon arrival to ‘real world’. Seems so strange to me, the whole thing.[/quote]

    And another thing, I thought the psychic said the baby was not suppose to be raised by anyone else and he knew about the crash…..if thats the case then wouldnt he know claire would die?[/quote]
    +_+_+_+_+_+_

    At first he said the baby can not be raised by anyone else. Then later he said that he found a couple in LA that would be good and she had to get on flight 815. We are never told that he knew about the crash.

  281. Brandie says:

    At first he said the baby can not be raised by anyone else. Then later he said that he found a couple in LA that would be good and she had to get on flight 815. We are never told that he knew about the crash.[/quote]

    There is an episode where claire and I think Charlie are talking about the psychic and Charlie points out that it’s strange he says no one else can raise the baby and then all the sudden he gives her money and a plane ticket so another couple can take the baby and says she HAS to take this flight and cant wait till the
    next flight like Claire wanted. Then Claire’s eyes got real big and she says “he knew. When he gave me the plane tickets and the money he knew we would crash here.” So we are not directly told that but thats what they want us to believe.

  282. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="211297"][quote comment="211260"]I am wondering what the deal is with Jacob. I recently went back and watched all 3 of the previous seasons and before Locke left the cabbin I noticed that he did catch a view of this “Jacob”. And is that how Locke was really saved from the gun shot wound thanks to Ben? Was it jacob who saved him? Or the Island itself? Any ideas? I am also curious about the beginning of an eppisode I saw. There was a bunch of people in the desert digging up somebones and then a woman(I am not sure who) shows up and says its a polar bear and it has one of the Dharma Inititive collar on it…… what’s up with that? I thought the island was the only place on earth with special powers. If that’s the case why is Dharma in other places as well doing the same things?[/quote]
    _++_+_+_+_+_+

    The faith healer in Australia Tells rose that there are different spots on the earth that have powers.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++
    Check the Vile Vortices page on lostpedia.com. It may be a clue as to why DHARMA was at more than one spot.

  283. Michael says:

    “Check the Vile Vortices page on lostpedia.com. It may be a clue as to why DHARMA was at more than one spot..”
    _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
    Just read the Vile Vortices (theory) & I like it. I happen to like the idea of and have seen just about every show on the Bermuda Triangle.

    I also like how that could explain any time travel. And i don’t care for the physical time travel idea.

  284. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="212372"]“Check the Vile Vortices page on lostpedia.com. It may be a clue as to why DHARMA was at more than one spot..”
    _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
    Just read the Vile Vortices (theory) & I like it. I happen to like the idea of and have seen just about every show on the Bermuda Triangle.

    I also like how that could explain any time travel. And i don’t care for the physical time travel idea.[/quote]
    ———————
    I think the “fountain of youth” may be on the island.

  285. Michael says:

    [quote comment="212684"][quote comment="212372"]“Check the Vile Vortices page on lostpedia.com. It may be a clue as to why DHARMA was at more than one spot..”
    _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
    Just read the Vile Vortices (theory) & I like it. I happen to like the idea of and have seen just about every show on the Bermuda Triangle.

    I also like how that could explain any time travel. And i don’t care for the physical time travel idea.[/quote]
    ———————
    I think the “fountain of youth” may be on the island.[/quote]

    +_+_+_+_+_+_

    Haven’t ever thought about that. That would explain Alpert’s appearance.

  286. DocH says:

    [quote comment="212684"]
    I think the “fountain of youth” may be on the island.
    [/quote]
    I have always thought that!

    Juliet went with the Mittelos dudes (Alpert/Rom)at the ‘airport’ just outside of Miami. She took a sedative, and just hours later (by sub) arrived on the LOST island. I assume she never left the States. Florida is known (mythically) for the ‘Fountain of Youth’. Ponce de Leon searched for it centuries ago. The ‘youth’ part of the equation may account for the ‘time differential’ between the island and the real-world.

    My postulate (one of many) is that the island is genuinely in central Florida. That doesn’t account for the South Pacific disappearance of OA815… unless they slipped through an anomaly/vortice there. (Think Tunisian polar bear). Maybe the “Man from Tallahassee” did not come from as far away as we believed??

    some background data here -

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_of_Youth
    and
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Ponce_de_Leon

    Note that the folks on the island all drink from the streams, wells and springs there.
    ((It’s all in the water!))

  287. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="213133"]

    Juliet went with the Mittelos dudes (Alpert/Rom)at the ‘airport’ just outside of Miami. She took a sedative, and just hours later (by sub) arrived on the LOST island. I assume she never left the States. [/quote]
    ——————
    I always thought Juliet’s journey to the island was suspicious. That so-called submarine was just for show, a prop, for Ben’s people.
    SIDENOTE-Ben let them believe that was how they came to the island. Maybe that’s why he let Locke blow it up, so some of his people would put Locke in a “bad light”. Just a thought.
    I like your idea about there being maybe an accessible passage/anamoly/vortice to the island somewhere in Florida, but I am not sure if the actual island is there.

  288. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="213133"]
    ((It’s all in the water!))[/quote]
    Funny, they usually say when many women get pregnant that it’s because of the water…now it’s water keeping them from having babies? :)

  289. DocH says:

    [quote comment="213322"]
    I like your idea about there being maybe an accessible passage/anamoly/vortice to the island somewhere in Florida, but I am not sure if the actual island is there.
    [/quote]

    I will happily concede the Florida point and meet you in the middle. ‘Actual’ Island may not be (likely not?) there… Some sort of Passage/Anomaly/Vortice to the Island – probably located in/near Florida.

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