There’s No Place Like Home, Part 2

Lost Season $ Finale - Ther's No Place Like Home, Part 2

Last year it was aptly called the “rattlesnake in the mailbox” (i.e. the moment you realized Jack’s flash was forward, not back, and that yes, they really did get off the Island) and this year it is being called “the frozen donkey wheel” – what exactly “it” is I am not sure, but we will find out tonight and it will undoubtedly be jaw-dropping. Season 4 ends tonight, with what should be two hours of “darkness, violence, and casualties” according to Michael Emerson. Savor the moment, because it’s off to hiatus-ville from here. They are re-airing Part 1 prior to the finale tonight, and it should contain some additional footage we did not see when it originally aired two weeks ago.

Spoiler Warning

ABC’s Official Show Description

“The face-off between the survivors and the freighter people continues, and the Oceanic Six find themselves closer to rescue, on the two-hour Season Finale!”

Questions that “should” be answered tonight:

  • Who is in the coffin?
  • What is the frozen donkey wheel?
  • How do the Oceanic 6 ultimately escape and why just them?
  • Is Locke really able to “move” the Island?
  • Death toll – How many and who?

Episode Preview

Finale Sneak Peeks: Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3 | Sneak Peek 4

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1,179 Responses to There’s No Place Like Home, Part 2

  1. Renato says:

    ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh boyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

  2. Renato says:

    12 hours and counting…

  3. i am confused.com says:

    12 hours yippee!! I have a MASSIVE 78, yes 78 hours to wait here in England!!!

    Hope we get answers……….OMG can’t believe I am comment 3!!!

  4. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    Almost time for…. Previous on Lost :-D

    Does anyone else find themselves dreaming about Lost? I had a dream the other night that I was carrying Aaron and running away from Smokey. Meanwhile, Sawyer yelled at me because I was wearing heals on the island and made me hide in the trees with Aaron until Smokey disappeared.

    While I’ve always loved this show, I think I am officially addicted to Lost.

  5. Rita says:

    Wow, finally its Thursday!! I am so excited about 3 HOURS OF LOST TONIGHT that I can hardly stand it!! I think we may get some actual answers tonight! Here’s hoping anyway. And Bailey Loves Lost, No, can’t say I have actually DREAMED about LOST, but I sure think about it a lot! LAA meeting, anyone?

  6. Angel says:

    WOW!! I AM SOOOOOO EXCITED FOR TONIGHT! I CAN’T WAIT. THERE ARE SOOOOOO MANY QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED…..WHAT QUESTIONS DOES EVERYBODY WANT ANSWERED???

    I personally want to know HOW they got off the island and what happened to the rest?

  7. wally p says:

    [quote comment="227472"]Almost time for…. Previous on Lost :-D

    Does anyone else find themselves dreaming about Lost? I had a dream the other night that I was carrying Aaron and running away from Smokey. Meanwhile, Sawyer yelled at me because I was wearing heals on the island and made me hide in the trees with Aaron until Smokey disappeared.

    While I’ve always loved this show, I think I am officially addicted to Lost.[/quote]

    I had two. Last week I had one that was very detailed, but I’ve since forgotten it. But it was straight up an episode of Lost in my dream. I guess it was probably the universe trying to course correct the fact that there was no show last thursday… Last night I had one that ended when a fire alarm went off across the street… I woke up in a flash… I had to convince myself that I was in my proper time line…

    Yeah, I think I may have a bit of a problem…

  8. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    A question I want answered is WHY the big cover up from the Oceanic Six. Also, who’s in the coffin? Is Claire actually dead or alive? Why does Jack want to go back to the island so badly?

  9. PJSander says:

    Every time I realize it is THURSDAY and *THE* Thursday, my heart skips a beat… and then I get just a little bit anxious. I am afraid that I have built it up in my mind so much that no matter what, I will be disappointed.

    I got that feeling a little bit at the end of “Ji Yeon” when I realized that it was the simultaneous FF and FB. But I wasn’t disappointed in the SHOW, just in the outcome. I don’t know.

    As for who I want to die tonight, that seems too morbid even for television! But as I’ve said before, it doesn’t matter if a character dies, the actor could still work on the show! So even if there were a character I could manage without, and I think Michael would be it, we could still see a lot of Harold Perrineau in years to come.

    : ) P

  10. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227515"]Every time I realize it is THURSDAY and *THE* Thursday, my heart skips a beat… and then I get just a little bit anxious. I am afraid that I have built it up in my mind so much that no matter what, I will be disappointed.

    I got that feeling a little bit at the end of “Ji Yeon” when I realized that it was the simultaneous FF and FB. But I wasn’t disappointed in the SHOW, just in the outcome. I don’t know.

    As for who I want to die tonight, that seems too morbid even for television! But as I’ve said before, it doesn’t matter if a character dies, the actor could still work on the show! So even if there were a character I could manage without, and I think Michael would be it, we could still see a lot of Harold Perrineau in years to come.

    : ) P[/quote]
    *********************************
    PJ, I don’t think we need worry about being disappointed tonight. I think we are going to have our socks blown off (hopefully not with C4!). I agree that we could do without Michael, mostly since we have already gotten used to him being gone before, but I don’t really mind him staying either. I admit I don’t really like his character, but he does add something (not just sure WHAT exactly!).

  11. lost4ever says:

    From the questions above:

    1. Who is in the coffin?
    2. What is the frozen donkey wheel?
    3. How do the Oceanic 6 ultimately escape and why just them?
    4. Is Locke really able to “move” the Island?
    5. Death toll – How many and who?

    1. I originally believed it to be Locke, but now I am thinking Ben. He has many passports and therefore many names. Locke would also NEVER leave the island willingly.
    2. I like MissKim’s idea, it could be what they use to “move” the island or transport off it.
    3. At first it must be the chopper. The O6, minus Sun, were heading near it. I am not really sure what happens after that or why those 5, but the good doctor Jack has always been determined on rescue.
    4. Can’t wait too see that or is that gonna be in season 5?
    5. Numerous. Keamy and crew, all the extra’s, Michael, and maybe Desmond, but I don’t think Jin.

  12. Austin says:

    WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!

    kkk, too excited. k

    soo, i am thinking the teleportation doohicky that ben uses to get off island, which is a weird thing for Locke to be playing with. maybe its an allusion to 2001 Space Odyssey and being inside HAL’s brain?! UHG!!!!!! toooo much excitement, i’m going to take some nightquil so i can function today.

  13. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="227523"]WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!
    [/quote]
    WHAT DOOR? I am outta here. Too many newbies gonna be talking about the previews.

  14. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227526"][quote comment="227523"]WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!
    [/quote]
    WHAT DOOR? I am outta here. Too many newbies gonna be talking about the previews.[/quote]
    I’m with you, the finale is too big, see you guys at the start….

  15. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="227492"]…..WHAT QUESTIONS DOES EVERYBODY WANT ANSWERED???[/quote]

    1. whose balloon was it?
    2. why do the others only come after you see the smoke in the sky?
    3. what was it that killed the pilot?
    4. if Vincent pees in the jungle alone, does he make any noise?
    5. did Boone and Shannon ever do it?

    Had to get those off my chest to ease the pain of waiting another 5 HOURS until showtime.

    I’d like to know more about:
    1. the whisperers
    2. smokie
    3. where’s Jacob? He was there a week ago but now he needs CS to speak for him?
    4. the coffin. I have resigned myself that it will either be a predictable letdown OR is going to blow our minds!!! So I’m trying not to get too geared up about it.

    See you tonight…same Lost channel…same Lost time (err,ummm,…I mean, ahh…)

  16. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    Lol, no preview talk! Everytime I even try to speculate about a preview I am proven wrong. So I don’t pay attention to the previews anymore :-)

  17. DocH says:

    I ran through some of the “Wish List” type responses from last week and compiled & paraphrased them.
    Here are some that appear unanswered, or only partially answered.
    – – – –
    I want to know more about the Orchid?.
    I want to know more about The Four-Toed Statue?
    I want to know what ‘The Temple’ is?
    I want to know what happens to the people who stay on the island?
    I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
    I want to know why Alpert does not age?
    I want to know why THESE numbers?
    I want to know what happens to Rose?
    I want to know how Ben ended-up in Tunisia in Oct 2005?
    I want to know who “they” are, when Hurley asked Ben about the purge?
    I want to know if Hurley is still rich?
    I want to know if Jin is really dead?
    I want to see anything “Walt”?
    I want to know why Libby was at the mental hospital with Hurley?
    I want to know what happened to all of the children?
    I want to know where the children from flight 815 are?
    I want to know what happened to Claire and the ‘vision’ of her leaving?
    I want to know why so many of the people on the plane are connected?
    I want to know if Kate and Sawyer ever get together?
    – – – –
    I got two of my wants answered last week

    I want to see the Others get back in to the mix?
    I want to know if Ben has a plan for this situation?

  18. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="227578"]I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
    I want to know why Alpert does not age?[/quote]

    The Alpert questions are also some of the more interesting. If we consider Ben’s FBs and the more recent Locke FBs, we realize that Alpert was trying to recruit Locke before he even met Ben. It may be that Ben was just preparing the way for Locke. This should also be viewed in the context of several conversations Ben had with Locke when Ben was imprisoned in the hatch, especially the “I came for you John,” comment.

    Also consider that Abaddon(sp) put the walkabout idea into Locke’s head. This would seem to indicate that Alpert and Abaddon are on the same team, and not on Widmore’s.

  19. Kathy says:

    I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something. Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that. I know in another post I said I thought she might be in the coffin, plausible but highly unlikely.

    Also Miles. He has had some input/interaction but his character must really be able to do something cool on a island where so many people have died. I hope they let his character do his thing with some awesome results. I also think Jack would take an interest in some one like Miles.

  20. Austin says:

    @ Lost4eva and Hammer

    Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.

  21. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="227606"][quote comment="227578"]I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
    I want to know why Alpert does not age?[/quote]

    The Alpert questions are also some of the more interesting. If we consider Ben’s FBs and the more recent Locke FBs, we realize that Alpert was trying to recruit Locke before he even met Ben. It may be that Ben was just preparing the way for Locke. This should also be viewed in the context of several conversations Ben had with Locke when Ben was imprisoned in the hatch, especially the “I came for you John,” comment.

    ——————————————
    Don’t forget about Ben shooting Locke in the bread basket with every intention of killing him.

  22. DocH says:

    [quote comment="227610"]
    I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something.

    Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that.

    Also Miles. He has had some input/interaction but his character must really be able to do something cool on a island where so many people have died. I hope they let his character do his thing with some awesome results.
    [/quote]
    Let’s not forget pilot Frank too.

    I am so total on-board with getting more ANSWERS from the ‘freighter tots’.

    Though Naomi was not so exuberant about signing-up the fab-four… as I remember, Abaddon was fairly insistent that the four (M-D-F-C) be on the leading edge when it came to taking the island. They had them on the island ASAP as soon as Naomi made initial contact. Team Keamy (get Ben/2nd protocol) are almost like a secondary mission, an after-thought, from what I thought the scientist were going to do.

    Yes… Charlotte needs tons more explaining. Miles = un-tapped resource. More ghost-busting… less restraining orders. Daniel may have reached his potential (Constant & Tempest) but… I’d like to see him reconstitute the Swan Hatch or Orchid. Frank = loose cannon, unknown loyalties, all-around good guy.

    I can see Keamy now. “Get that twitchy little Faraday guy up here now (Orchid)… I want to see him work his magic on this thing!”

  23. CAG says:

    [quote comment="227606"][quote comment="227578"]I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
    I want to know why Alpert does not age?[/quote]

    The Alpert questions are also some of the more interesting. If we consider Ben’s FBs and the more recent Locke FBs, we realize that Alpert was trying to recruit Locke before he even met Ben. It may be that Ben was just preparing the way for Locke. This should also be viewed in the context of several conversations Ben had with Locke when Ben was imprisoned in the hatch, especially the “I came for you John,” comment.

    Also consider that Abaddon(sp) put the walkabout idea into Locke’s head. This would seem to indicate that Alpert and Abaddon are on the same team, and not on Widmore’s.[/quote]
    **************************
    They can’t be on the same team, Alpert knows about the survivors, Abbadon doesn’t … he tried to get Hugo to spill the beans. I think they are working against each other, but they both know that Locke will play an important role in the future of the island so they’re both angling for some influence.

  24. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer

    Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
    *************************************

    I would say that until the “no spoilers or discussion of episode previews” guideline for comments on this site is removed or changed, it really doesn’t matter what this blog considered doing/used to do before or after the transition of ownership. If you don’t wanna play by the rules go find yourself another sandbox.

  25. DocH says:

    http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20202804,00.html

    jeff jensen has a nice “WHAT IF” review here… no spoilers, but it will bring personal FBs from the season. I would wait until 20 minutes before your 1st viewing tonight before visiting.

  26. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer

    Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
    ****************************************
    I guess I’m not sure what the point you’re making is. I have only been here for 2 seasons, but I have gone back through the archives and read EVERYTHING that was done before I arrived. Actually, I find the comments to about the same: some periods of great debate/ some periods of general comments, but truly not much different over time. Just people excited about a great story, and wanting some place to join with others who feel the same. Personally, though I was not part of the original debate over discussing/not discussing previews, I like it this way just fine. I like being spoiler-free and just excited to see the story unfold. There is plenty to discuss without adding the previews, and we don’t have to wait that long before we can discuss the ACTUAL events (rather than the MIGHT BE events as they appear in the previews). Many of the same names are appearing now, that appeared in the earlier postings, so I guess not everyone feels the same way you do.

  27. approaching infinity says:

    Is anyone getting a three line outline of the picture on their television? I have checked a few TVs and all of them are getting this. Thanks.

  28. Andrew says:

    wow so libby, Charlie, and Boone were the other 3 survivors who “died” makes sense cause there actually dead.

  29. Tasha says:

    Did anyone notice that in the interview of the oceanic 6, Jack states there were 8 of them…then they ask what happened to the other 3…then gives out the three names.
    Then a lady asks another question about the six of them. That makes no sense at all. Mind Games…LOL

    Oh crud. Is this supposed to go in last week’s comments??

  30. approaching infinity says:

    There were 8 of them that survived the crash. Libby, Charlie, and Boone died so there are 5 left. Aaron is born which puts the total number of survivors at 6.

  31. Tasha says:

    NEVER MIND!! I JUST GOT IT!! Sorry to sound so dumb LOL.

  32. Tasker says:

    Five bank accounts = the five survivors. I bet they put the payoff money together and buy out Paik.

  33. kay says:

    First time I’m reading/commenting here and I sure feel like this place fits Lost perfectly with all the questions about what should or should not be here and why. It’s pretty amusing from an outsider’s view–and I don’t mean that in a bad way.
    Anywho,
    I think Ben shot Locke because Ben didn’t want to be replaced by Locke, which would seem to be the intention of the island.
    I am also pretty darn sure that a frozen donkey wheel is an old expression for the actual donkey wheels used in mills when they “froze” from rust/grit/whatever. Could it be so simple that the island actually has a giant rudder? That’s what I’m guessing since it would be totally in line with many sci-fi themes of a simple thing fixing/coming to the rescue.
    What I want answered more than anything is how Desmond bounced in time. Could the request to move the island mean both geographicly and in time both? Which is contrary to my rudder theory….but still a good explanation for some of the bigger contradictions in the story line.

    I am hoping against all odds that the finale is all about what is going on on the island. I love mysteries but this is a but much. They need to give us better clues and more info to keep us interested. I know a few people who have quit watching because of this.
    I would love to see Jack and Kate gone from the story line. Jack at the very least because he’s become so boring of a character.

  34. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227652"]There were 8 of them that survived the crash. Libby, Charlie, and Boone died so there are 5 left. Aaron is born which puts the total number of survivors at 6.[/quote]

    I was typing my comment when you were. I guess I was just LOOKING for a reason to be confused about something! I have been convinced and prepared to go completely crazy tonight. I know at the very end of the finale I am going to be soooo mad! I will then tell my husband how I totally hate this show and will never watch this crap again. Then he will tell me he is going to have a brain aneurysm. Then I will get on this blog until Sunday. LOL

  35. CAG says:

    Hey … what’s Aaron been eating for a day and a half since Claire wandered off? That baby should be screaming like crazy by now

  36. omar says:

    Whats up losties…. Is every1 ready for tonight, i know i am….I wanna know what is happening to sayid and kate, and if alpert reveals any secrets to them…??

  37. JamieGirl says:

    [quote comment="227654"]Five bank accounts = the five survivors. I bet they put the payoff money together and buy out Paik.[/quote]

    OMG this exact thought crossed my mind today. I cut my date short (ahhh) to get home and watch !

  38. Found says:

    Just putting in my final thoughts before the finale… I think that Jack is going to be responsible for the freighter blowing up. I think that Keamy is going to have Kate as a hostage. Jack will have a gun aimed at him, Keamy will tell Jack that he doesn’t want to do that… Jack won’t believe him and shoots him… BOOOOOOM!!!. Jack never forgives himself for this. I think that Jack is the “Frozen Donkey Wheel”. It defines his absolute stubbornness ie. “Stubborn as a Donkey” Its hard enough to get a donkey to do something that it doesn’t want to do, but if it is pulling something like a cart with a frozen wheel… it won’t be going anywhere. Kate is Jack’s Frozen Donkey wheel. His decisions are based on saving Kate over everything else. And it will cost him and a lot of other people dearly… Well Just a guess, we’ll see what happens in a few moments. See you after the finale!

  39. lost chicka says:

    O! M! G! IT”S ON!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!! YAY!!!!!!!!

  40. Tasha says:

    WHO???

  41. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer

    Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
    Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.

  42. Megalost says:

    [quote comment="227664"][quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer

    Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
    Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.[/quote]

    hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer. ;-)—

  43. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227671"][quote comment="227664"][quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer

    Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
    Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.[/quote]

    hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer. ;-)—[/quote]
    This is an exciting nite for me and I love everyone who shares the love of Lost with me….but let’s not ruin that! LOL. I have to say though, I have been coming here since season 1 and as far as I can remember back…we don’t discuss spoilers or previews. That carried over with the new owner as well. I may be wrong…my mind isn’t quite right anymore after watching this show…but pretty sure they haven’t been discussed since at least season 2.

    May I also say…..
    I guess we were ALL wrong!!! Jeremy WHO? I love how this show answers questions that only bring up new ones! LOL? What is the monster? Oh just black smoke that flies around and kills people/security system. Who is in the coffin?? Oh yeah! Jeremy! Remember him?? Huh?

  44. Snaisy says:

    OH MY!!!

  45. omar says:

    man i think u need to be on lsd to watch this show….lol….

  46. Rita says:

    OMG!!! Sun’s baby IS Michael’s!!!!!!!

  47. Snaisy says:

    Who is Jeremy again?

  48. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227678"]Who is Jeremy again?[/quote]
    We don’t know yet. Still could be Locke maybe? Or Ben?

  49. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227677"]OMG!!! Sun’s baby IS Michael’s!!!!!!![/quote]

    Are you kidding me? LOL

    [quote comment="227678"]Who is Jeremy again?[/quote]

    You know Jeremy!! Remember him from the past 4 seasons? LOL

  50. omar says:

    i think jeremy is the dharma intuitive doctor on the video tapes….sawyer jumped off the chopper, what he say to kate???

  51. Hammer says:

    Jeremy is like a passenger that gets of the island after the O6 and will need an alias as Sayid said no possibilty of any other survivors.

  52. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227671"]
    hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer. ;-)—[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Thanks Megalost.

  53. Hammer says:

    The Whisperers are popping up all over the place. Hugo is seeing the regularly, Michael now….they are SOOOO part of the security system!!!

  54. Tasha says:

    OMG….that was dramatic. I am going to cry.

  55. Kathy says:

    Austin you better hang it up on smack talk to Hammer cuz it just won’t be tolerated. He knows whats up and runs an excellent blog.

  56. della says:

    BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?

  57. JamieGirl says:

    This better pick up

  58. Hammer says:

    Wow literally frozen donkey wheel!!!

  59. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227689"]Austin you better hang it up on smack talk to Hammer cuz it just won’t be tolerated. He knows whats up and runs an excellent blog.[/quote]
    Thanks Kathy.

  60. Andrew says:

    frozen donkey wheel haha. NICE!!!

  61. CAG says:

    [quote comment="227690"]BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?[/quote]

    I think that’s why CS told him that he “could go now” … now he CAN die

  62. JamieGirl says:

    [quote comment="227671"][quote comment="227664"][quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer

    Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
    Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.[/quote]

    hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer. ;-)—[/quote]

    Hammer is Jacob !

  63. thril says:

    WOW!!! Well there goes the island!!!

  64. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227695"][quote comment="227690"]BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?[/quote]

    I think that’s why CS told him that he “could go now” … now he CAN die[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yes, spot on.

  65. JamieGirl says:

    [quote comment="227680"][quote comment="227677"]OMG!!! Sun’s baby IS Michael’s!!!!!!![/quote]

    Are you kidding me? LOL

    [quote comment="227678"]Who is Jeremy again?[/quote]

    You know Jeremy!! Remember him from the past 4 seasons? LOL[/quote]

    OMG yes I agree. It’s Michael’s !

  66. MLC says:

    Not looking good for desmond or lapidus

  67. omar says:

    I love this show… penny n desmond!!!

  68. JamieGirl says:

    Des is 100% getting back to the mainland, not sure about Frank !!!

  69. Hammer says:

    Sun is the economist?

  70. della says:

    [quote comment="227701"]I love this show… penny n desmond!!![/quote]
    it gave me chills when they saw each other

  71. Snaisy says:

    Frank was the pilot remember? Maybe he can sneak his way!

  72. JamieGirl says:

    [quote comment="227703"]Sun is the economist?[/quote]

    Definitely !

  73. Tasha says:

    I kept reading that Penny would show up cause she shows up in every finale. Of course I was looking for the submarine!

    OMG he is gonna open it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  74. helen says:

    happy beyond words about Des+Penny reunion

  75. Hammer says:

    Hammer
    Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.

    ++++++++++++++
    Hey, I got one!

  76. Snaisy says:

    JOHN

  77. thril says:

    WTF?!?!?!? Locke!?!?!?!

  78. thril says:

    WTF!?!?!?! Locke?!?!?

  79. Pam says:

    Jeremy Bentham is John Locke! Woo Hoo! I’m so relived for AN answer!

  80. Hammer says:

    Now how in the heck did the island let Locke die? Guess it doesn’t matter since it wants all of them back.

    So it looks like we spend next season getting back on the island.

  81. lust4lost says:

    i said all along john locke was in the coffin!!

  82. omar says:

    so john locke is jeremy bentham???

  83. Snaisy says:

    I hope this is a fake Lock body… a double. Just to get the Lost 6-ers to return. I am not going to let the ‘Lock is dead now’ fool me!!!

  84. thril says:

    WTF!?!?! Locke!?!?!

  85. MLC says:

    Weekend at Bernie’s 3 once Locke gets back to the island…

  86. Toeknee says:

    Well, thus ends one of the best seasons of any TV show I’ve ever seen.

    Congrats to those who said Locke was in the coffin. I was sure surprised.

  87. lust4lost says:

    i knew it! i knew it! it was john locke. but why jeremy bentham???

  88. lust4lost says:

    i knew it! i knew it! it was john locke. but why jeremy bentham???

  89. JDL says:

    Locke?! Ah! I’m so glad it was Ben, I have a soft spot for him…

    But Penelope and Desmond’s touching reunion and Juliet’s new drinking habit aside, what was that ARG site again? The advertisement? Global Paragon Recruiting?

    The website they gave on screen doesn’t seem to work…

  90. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227709"]Hammer
    Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.

    ++++++++++++++
    Hey, I got one![/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Good call Hammer. Until that last scene I thought she was blaming Widmore, and was planning on taking her revenge. Not exactly sure why she should blame Jack – Ben or Widmore are more culpable, IMHO.

  91. dukewm says:

    A*W*E*S*O*M*E

    I’m speechless (for now)!

  92. lost-on-mars says:

    where the heck did the island go to?

  93. Pam says:

    Woo Hoo! An answer about the coffin!

  94. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227720"]Well, thus ends one of the best seasons of any TV show I’ve ever seen.

    Congrats to those who said Locke was in the coffin. I was sure surprised.[/quote]
    Hear, hear.

    @ Locke, it makes sense now. The gang, especially Aaron is supposed to be on the island. Something happened (folks leaving?) that drove Locke to leave the island looking for help. I think Aaron has to get back. I also think that maybe Jack and Kate are my current Adam and Eve. Jack is supposed to be on the island too. I’m rambling from a Lost high.

  95. RD says:

    ok, a lot of questions got answered, but I agree this episode was boring. I was ready to say I did not care about next season until Locke showed up in the coffin.

  96. vaughn says:

    michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team

  97. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227724"][quote comment="227709"]Hammer
    Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.

    ++++++++++++++
    Hey, I got one![/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Good call Hammer. Until that last scene I thought she was blaming Widmore, and was planning on taking her revenge. Not exactly sure why she should blame Jack – Ben or Widmore are more culpable, IMHO.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Yeah, it seemed she is just pissed at ALL the bad decisions Jack pushed the group into and I got that feeling from part 1. In part 2/3 Jack kept yelling to take off, don’t go here, go there, etc. Her anger may be directed incorrectly, but it’s at Jack nontheless.

  98. Andrew says:

    so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
    plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.

  99. Bobbi says:

    octagonglobalrecruiting.com

    can’t wait to see what will be brewing there!

  100. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227538"][quote comment="227526"][quote comment="227523"]WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!
    [/quote]
    WHAT DOOR? I am outta here. Too many newbies gonna be talking about the previews.[/quote]
    I’m with you, the finale is too big, see you guys at the start….[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Wow! I’m glad I placed myself on a self-imposed exile from Lost-internet sites for the past week. I didn’t want to take the chance of getting any whiff of a spoiler. I can’t imagine watching this show after getting hints about what’s going to happen in an episode – it must really take away from the experience.

  101. Deep Dish says:

    Jeremy Bentham= philosopher who came up with the idea for a prison called the Panopticon (the concept was that prisoners would be more easily controlled if they thought someone was always watching them; the idea of an invisible omniscient prison guard is most effective).

  102. dclindberg says:

    Anyone catch the ad for Octagon Global Recruiting? Is there another ARG in the works?

  103. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
    Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.

  104. Dharma Bums says:

    This was a really great season, and is the best show ever to be on television.

    Questions:

    Why can the person who moves the island not return?

    How did Locke/Bentham end up off of the island and dead?

    What took place after Jack and company left that was so horrible?

    Do Desmond and Lapitus have to return with the Oceanic 6?

  105. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227739"]This was a really great season, and is the best show ever to be on television.

    Questions:

    Why can the person who moves the island not return?

    How did Locke/Bentham end up off of the island and dead?

    What took place after Jack and company left that was so horrible?

    Do Desmond and Lapitus have to return with the Oceanic 6?[/quote]
    John didn’t end up off the island and dead he came “home” and then died. He met with all of the surivors.

  106. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227733"]so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
    plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.[/quote]
    Maybe dead, but not gone….whisperers. Plus we have see how and why Locke left the island looking for help. His story is not over and looks like he will become like CS….a whisperer!

  107. WWWaaalllt says:

    [quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]

    Actually that was a flashback for Jin coupled with a flash forward for Sun.

  108. vaughn says:

    [quote comment="227738"][quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
    Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.[/quote]

    that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF

  109. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227733"]so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
    plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.[/quote]
    *********************************
    I still have a feeling that Jin will NOT be dead afterall, though Sun (and everyone) thinks he is. He may yet turn up. Claire is dead for sure, as is Michael – since the island “released” him. I am wondering about Ben though. Is HE dead as well? He seemed alive in the flash forward in Tunesia (wearing the parka), but who waits in funeral parlors in the night just in case someone should show up and break in???? Did he die at the FDW, and THAT’S why “the one who moves the island can never come back”??? (At least not in live form)

  110. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227719"]Weekend at Bernie’s 3 once Locke gets back to the island…[/quote]
    This really made me LOL!

  111. Hammer says:

    BTW, there were plenty of whispers going on when Alpert’s team showed up. Please see Whisper Theory thread.

  112. E says:

    Crazy episode…as weird as it sounds, I was glad Ben didn’t die, or “not come back”…I almost took that as we wouldnt be seeing Ben anymore…I hope for the same from Locke and that he is not dead

    One thing I noticed was that the whispers seem to appear when a death is about to occur or there is something with death related i.e. Michael on the ship as well as Hurley playing chess against Eko (a nice “appearance” from his character)…and I cannot back this up with every whispers occurrence but it seemed that way tonite…Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again

  113. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227610"]I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something. Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that.
    [/quote]
    Great call, Kathy. I was glad to see this development.

    I hope Faraday is still alive and remains a regular character – I wonder what happened to that raft?

  114. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227743"][quote comment="227738"][quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
    Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.[/quote]

    that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    This isn’t the right thread to debate. Please do a little research, it was confirmed by D&C that Jin’s was a FB and Sun’s was an FF.

  115. wish i were lost says:

    Charlotte was born on the island???? Nobody can be born on the island…could she be Alpert’s long lost sister???
    A great finale.
    I miss Jin already.
    And thank god we saw who was in the coffin. I don’t think i could handle having to read more speculation about who it was.

  116. Trixanna says:

    Sayid said that Bentham talked to him, Hurley talked to him, they all seemed to talk to him. Bentham = Locke, but HOW did he find everyone and how did he die? Did Sayid kill him and then tell Hurley it was an apparent suicide? How did Jack know it was him when he read the obit? Oh… because he talked to him too!!! I am so confused.

    Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.

    As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!!

  117. Christal says:

    Did anyone see the commercial that was for
    ‘octagonglobalresearch’ it was like a spoof
    type thing that said “Paid for by ABC” in the
    bottom left hand corner of the screen. I’ve
    googled and googled but nothing has come up.
    If someone else saw it, could you let me know
    if I have the right info for searching for it?
    Thank you! PS~LOVED this finale!

  118. lost-on-mars says:

    did anyone else have problems with their cable reception during the show?

  119. LostFan says:

    omg there is so much stuff im still in shock from like how they killed jin

    and did faraday and the others die as well?
    why did christian shepard appear in front of micahael right before he died?
    and i think that the second person sun blames jins death on is ben and that her and whitmore will tem up to kill him
    and omg the end was amazing locke is in the coffin?!?!?
    i never expected that at all!!!…BUT WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME
    it was sooo cool how ben managed to move the island
    omg theres so much to sayy about this
    its the best finale=)

  120. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227655"]
    I am also pretty darn sure that a frozen donkey wheel is an old expression for the actual donkey wheels used in mills when they “froze” from rust/grit/whatever. Could it be so simple that the island actually has a giant rudder? That’s what I’m guessing since it would be totally in line with many sci-fi themes of a simple thing fixing/coming to the rescue.
    [/quote]
    Great call, Kay. I was a bit disappointed to see that their secret code/term was actually what we saw on-screen.

  121. CAG says:

    [quote comment="227743"][quote comment="227738"][quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
    Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.

    that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]

    No … this one has been proven over and over.
    Sun = FF
    Jin = FB
    That’s all I’ll say as I am against cruelty to animals, including dead horses. :)

  122. Mr. Echo 311 says:

    Am I crazy or did it seem like Michael could be the father of Sun’s baby? It always seemed like something was going on between them through out the first two seasons… Isn’t Jin sterile??? I do not recall if they ever show what the baby looks like this season…

  123. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227752"]
    Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.

    As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
    *******************************
    You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
    Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????

  124. Max says:

    The site was octagonglobalrecruiting.com. I had problems w/adobe player, so I wasn’t able to submit my e-mail. Oh well, it’s not like I’d be schlepping out to San Diego in July anyway.

  125. Kim says:

    [quote comment="227753"]Did anyone see the commercial that was for
    ‘octagonglobalresearch’ it was like a spoof
    type thing that said “Paid for by ABC” in the
    bottom left hand corner of the screen. I’ve
    googled and googled but nothing has come up.
    If someone else saw it, could you let me know
    if I have the right info for searching for it?
    Thank you! PS~LOVED this finale![/quote]

    Go to http://www.octagonglobalresearch.com. I’m hoping it’s another summer diversion!!!

  126. Writer says:

    Ok, you can’t say that Jin is still alive because we saw him in a flashforward with a panda. We didn’t see him in a flashforward. That part of the episode wasn’t a flashforward, but a flash back.
    Overall, I thought it was a great episode with good twists and turns. Also thought it was great how they tied this episode to last year’s finale.

    Just a few points:

    * Sun told her father last week that two people were responsible for her husband’s death. Does she blame Jack or Widmore? I can’t believe that she would be in cohoots (there is a good Southern word from a Southern boy, LOL) with Widmore in the future.

    * For all of the conflict between Jack and Locke over the last three years, Jack did exactly what Locke told him to do and apparently drank the Koolaid that Locke was serving up to him before Locke’s untimely “suicide.”

    * Widmore had to have had Locke killed.

    * Don’t forget that Ben has already put Widmore on notice that he is going after Penny. That should be interesting over the next two seasons and also keep Desmond involved in the show. Can anyone else think of a Desmond angle now that he and Penny are together?

    so much more to talk about…..

  127. DocH says:

    [quote comment="227751"]
    Charlotte was born on the island???? Nobody can be born on the island…
    [/quote]
    Come on…. breathe deep… think about it. AARON was born on the island. You can be conceived on the island OR you can be squeezed out on the island. Just not both – conceived & squeezed.

  128. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227747"]BTW, there were plenty of whispers going on when Alpert’s team showed up. Please see Whisper Theory thread.[/quote]
    Hammer – I didn’t see you mention this yet. But in Kate’s FF, when she had her dream, she answered the phone, and the closed-captioning said “Ghostly whispering on the phone”. After seeing Claire, it makes sense, but without the closed-captioning I wouldn’t have guessed that they were whispers coming over the phone.

  129. wish i were lost says:

    Charlotte is Annie, Ben’s childhood friend on the island. Rita you are so right.

  130. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227744"][quote comment="227733"]so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
    plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.[/quote]
    *********************************
    I still have a feeling that Jin will NOT be dead afterall, though Sun (and everyone) thinks he is. He may yet turn up. Claire is dead for sure, as is Michael – since the island “released” him. I am wondering about Ben though. Is HE dead as well? He seemed alive in the flash forward in Tunesia (wearing the parka), but who waits in funeral parlors in the night just in case someone should show up and break in???? Did he die at the FDW, and THAT’S why “the one who moves the island can never come back”??? (At least not in live form)[/quote]

    I said the same thing! What the heck was Ben doing there? I even thought HE might be dead. He looked a little pale….actually VERY pale. He needs a tan if he is alive LOL! Everything with the Oceanic six seems creepy. Claire, Ben, Hurley. Weird picture that hung in Kate’s house.

  131. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
    Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.

    As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
    *******************************
    You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
    Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Brilliant idea!!!!!!!!

  132. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227730"]ok, a lot of questions got answered, but I agree this episode was boring. [/quote]
    Really? You didn’t have your TV tuned to NBC by mistake did you?

  133. Keys says:

    Anyone run that phone call to Kate backwards yet?

  134. Andrew says:

    2 more things
    – I wonder what happened to Farraday and his group of 815 survivors, i mean if they made it back to mainland woudnt the world know, and have questioned the Oceanic 6?
    -Walt thinks his pops is alive he’s gonna go back!!

  135. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227764"][quote comment="227747"]BTW, there were plenty of whispers going on when Alpert’s team showed up. Please see Whisper Theory thread.[/quote]
    Great catch, I don’t use the captioning.

  136. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227743"]that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]

    Um, no.

    SUN was in a FlashFORWARD, while simultaneously, Jin was in a FlashBACK. This isn’t just speculation, D&C confirmed it in a podcast.

    : ) P

  137. wish i were lost says:

    Nothing gets past the DocH. You are correct. maybe two hours of lost is just too much for me

  138. jim says:

    did anyone get there email to work for the octagon registration??

  139. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227755"]
    and omg the end was amazing locke is in the coffin?!?!?
    i never expected that at all!!!…BUT WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME
    [/quote]
    Locke had to change his name – he was presumed to have died in the plane crash. Just like Ben has a bunch of fake passports for when he leaves the island, Locke probably has to do the same.

  140. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227730"]ok, a lot of questions got answered, but I agree this episode was boring. I was ready to say I did not care about next season until Locke showed up in the coffin.[/quote]

    Boring? There was not one SINGLE second of this episode that was boring, in my opinion. I was really worried that I would be disappointed because of the built-up anticipation, but it was freekin amazing.

    So, now… whether Ji Yeon is Jin’s or Michael’s, does SHE have to go back to the island?

    : ) P

  141. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
    Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.

    As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
    *******************************
    You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
    Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]

    I thought about that with Charlotte so it could be possible but I don’t know…I would think Ben would have been with Annie cause they had a childhood thing.

    Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!!

  142. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227762"]Ok, you can’t say that Jin is still alive because we saw him in a flashforward with a panda. We didn’t see him in a flashforward. That part of the episode wasn’t a flashforward, but a flash back.
    Overall, I thought it was a great episode with good twists and turns. Also thought it was great how they tied this episode to last year’s finale.

    Just a few points:

    * Sun told her father last week that two people were responsible for her husband’s death. Does she blame Jack or Widmore? I can’t believe that she would be in cohoots (there is a good Southern word from a Southern boy, LOL) with Widmore in the future.

    * For all of the conflict between Jack and Locke over the last three years, Jack did exactly what Locke told him to do and apparently drank the Koolaid that Locke was serving up to him before Locke’s untimely “suicide.”

    * Widmore had to have had Locke killed.

    * Don’t forget that Ben has already put Widmore on notice that he is going after Penny. That should be interesting over the next two seasons and also keep Desmond involved in the show. Can anyone else think of a Desmond angle now that he and Penny are together?

    so much more to talk about…..[/quote]
    I don’t think the thing was with Jin and the panda and Sun giving birth was a complete flash forward. I think the parts with Jin was a flash back and the parts with Sun was a flash forward, unless I missed something.

  143. Wwwaaalllt says:

    [quote comment="227776"]did anyone get there email to work for the octagon registration??[/quote]

    Yes, but not through IE, It worked through avant browser

  144. omar says:

    The Los Angeles Lakers head to the NBA finals as they have just won the Western Conf. Finals over the San Antonia Spurs….

  145. DocH says:

    I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.

  146. jim says:

    Remind me who annie is?

  147. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227779"][quote comment="227730"]
    So, now… whether Ji Yeon is Jin’s or Michael’s, does SHE have to go back to the island?

    : ) P[/quote]
    *******************************
    I think she would have to as well. And Aaron. What was with the “vision” of Claire demanding that Kate never take him back to the island? Ji Yeon and Aaron. Adam and Eve.

  148. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227773"][quote comment="227743"]that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]

    Um, no.

    SUN was in a FlashFORWARD, while simultaneously, Jin was in a FlashBACK. This isn’t just speculation, D&C confirmed it in a podcast.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Oops, sorry for commenting on your commented comment.

  149. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
    Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.

    As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
    *******************************
    You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
    Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Yes, Rita. In my excitement I mistakenly said Aaron. Thanks for the correction!!

    Charlotte as Annie? Wow! Did she ever see Ben? Is he why she wanted to stay? I think you might have hit that one one the head!

  150. omar says:

    [quote comment="227770"]Anyone run that phone call to Kate backwards yet?[/quote]

    LOL not yet, is that even possible??

  151. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227762"]
    * Don’t forget that Ben has already put Widmore on notice that he is going after Penny. That should be interesting over the next two seasons and also keep Desmond involved in the show. Can anyone else think of a Desmond angle now that he and Penny are together?
    [/quote]
    When Jack said goodbye to Desmond, he said something like, “Don’t let him/them find you”. He may have been talking about Widmore. Remember too that Sun said to Widmore something like “You know we weren’t the only ones to get off the island.” So perhaps Widmore knows Desmond is still alive and is off the island, and Widmore trying to track down Desmond will be a plotline next season.

  152. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]

    I agree completely… except that I would venture to add the first hour and say THREE of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.

    LOST better not get shut out of the Emmys THIS year!

    : ) P

  153. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227778"][quote comment="227755"]
    and omg the end was amazing locke is in the coffin?!?!?
    i never expected that at all!!!…BUT WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME
    [/quote]
    Locke had to change his name – he was presumed to have died in the plane crash. Just like Ben has a bunch of fake passports for when he leaves the island, Locke probably has to do the same.[/quote]

    Did Sun say something along the lines of Charles had been to the island too? If this is true…then who is Charles Whidmore REALLY?

  154. omar says:

    [quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
    ============

    ENCORE!!!

  155. Dez4Pres says:

    DocH –
    Agree with you 100%. Fantastic episode and show.

  156. jim says:

    And just to make sure…there is no way this is the last season is it…I keep hearing people say this and it makes me want to strangle myself!

  157. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
    Well put…..period.

  158. PJSander says:

    Well we didn’t see Charlie. *pout*

    So even though I have to have something to keep my hope going for the next SEVEN months, I admit that bringing him back in Season 5 or 6 would be “pushing it” as far as the audience accepting his return.

    *I* won’t bring him up again, but I reserve the right to discuss him again should someone ELSE mention his name!

    LOL

    : ) P

  159. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227802"]Well we didn’t see Charlie. *pout*

    So even though I have to have something to keep my hope going for the next SEVEN months, I admit that bringing him back in Season 5 or 6 would be “pushing it” as far as the audience accepting his return.

    *I* won’t bring him up again, but I reserve the right to discuss him again should someone ELSE mention his name!

    LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    ****************************
    Well PJ, he DID get to be one of the 3 who didn’t live after initially making it out of the plane!! That’s something isn’t it?

  160. vaughn says:

    dude i dont care if u like him or not but keamy was a bad ass

  161. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227780"]
    Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
    Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.

  162. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227796"]And just to make sure…there is no way this is the last season is it…I keep hearing people say this and it makes me want to strangle myself![/quote]
    I have the same question. How many more seasons? Is there only going to be 4 and a half seasons in the series? I think that is my last recollection, but I can’t find answers ANYWHERE.
    But I want more!

  163. PJSander says:

    Hey, the Octagon Global Recruiting site… they mention July 24 to 27 in San Diego. Is that when Comic-Con is?

    Also, a little chuckle to share… my niece is trying to think of something she can do to help people and travel. The Peace Corps is too structured for her, so when I saw that commercial, I thought, “Ooh, I should give that web address to Katie.”

    LOL

    Good thing I checked it out first!

    : ) P

  164. omar says:

    [quote comment="227765"]Charlotte is Annie, Ben’s childhood friend on the island. Rita you are so right.[/quote]
    =========

    Thats right, i also think RED is ben’s friend from childhood in his fb, and that same girl could be aplerts sister also(aplert reminds me of peter pan)…, but no way is michael the father of sun’s baby, thats just stupid, go watch the episode they showed her baby, i didnt see ant black in there…

  165. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="227754"]did anyone else have problems with their cable reception during the show?[/quote]
    blame jack!

  166. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227792"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]

    I agree completely… except that I would venture to add the first hour and say THREE of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.

    LOST better not get shut out of the Emmys THIS year!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I want to nominate the entire scene when Ben and Locke were in the Orchid and Ben had absolutley no patience for the green horn Locke. I couldn’t get enough of the actor exchanges. Totally Emmy worthy.

  167. Garth says:

    Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?

  168. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227811"]Hey, the Octagon Global Recruiting site… they mention July 24 to 27 in San Diego. Is that when Comic-Con is?[/quote]

    Replying to myself.

    YUP!

    http://www.comic-con.org/cci/

    : ) P

  169. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227785"]Remind me who annie is?[/quote]
    Annie was Ben’s childhood friend/sweetheart. In Ben’s FB episode from season 3 when we saw him arrive on the island as a young boy, he and Annie became very close.

  170. What happened to Daniel and the castaway extras on the raft?

  171. Trixanna says:

    I felt terrible when
    A. Sawyer jumped from the helicopter. My heart broke and then I saw the island… yeah! Jack made it sound like he CHOSE to stay behind… he chose to SACRIFICE!!!

    B. Jin ran to the helicopter and Sun was screaming for him. Ouch!!! No wonder she is so bitter.

    Did anyone else jump 2 feet into the air when Ben spoke to Jack at the funeral home??? Scared me half to death!!!

    Not impressed with the Sawyer/Kate kiss. Not with Jack only feet away. Des/Penny… now THAT was a kiss!!!

    ENJOYED seeing Sawyer walking onto the beach with NO shirt on! Ahhhh.

    Oops… after midnight here… time for bed!

  172. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
    Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.

    As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
    *******************************
    You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
    Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]
    I love Annie theories! Yes, I’m a sucker for that one, but if that’s true, why would she say she’s NEVER seen where she was born before?

  173. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227813"]no way is michael the father of sun’s baby, thats just stupid, go watch the episode they showed her baby, i didnt see ant black in there…[/quote]

    I don’t REALLY think Michael is Ji Yeon’s father, but I leave the door open that it IS possible.

    Well FWIW, many newborn babies are very pale. Some African-American newborns look Caucasian and their skin darkens over time. This is especially so with bi-racial babies. I am not speaking from a medical POV, just as someone who has seen a whole LOT of newborns!

    : ) P

  174. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
    Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
    Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
    ****************************
    The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.

  175. jim says:

    [quote comment="227822"][quote comment="227785"]Remind me who annie is?[/quote]
    Annie was Ben’s childhood friend/sweetheart. In Ben’s FB episode from season 3 when we saw him arrive on the island as a young boy, he and Annie became very close.[/quote]

    Thanks Toeknee! I remember… Thats awesome, she probably is Charlotte! :)

  176. omar says:

    that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…

  177. Laura says:

    [quote comment="227788"]

    Charlotte as Annie? Wow! Did she ever see Ben? Is he why she wanted to stay? I think you might have hit that one one the head![/quote]

    Charlotte is way younger than Ben, there is no way she could be Annie. She could however be Annie’s daughter (?) This fits a lot better with the character ages. It would also make sense if Annie got off the island right before the purge if she had told her daughter about the island and maybe also about her friend Ben Linus.

  178. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.

  179. meathead530 says:

    What happened from the Sayid/Hurley conversation to when the boat was sinking? I missed about 10 minutes because my daughter messed with the DVR. Any summaries are appreciated!

  180. Toeknee says:

    In case any of you missed this, or forgot about it, supposedly 3 different endings for this episode were filmed, and the other two will be shown on Good Morning America tomorrow. I’m sure they’ll eventually be on ABC.com too.

  181. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227827"]The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]

    I completely agree that based on what we saw tonight, it LOOKS like it could be that way. But the only hesitation I have is that Sun was so overwhelmingly relieved that it was not Jae’s baby. I can’t imagine that she would feel that kind of relief only to worry that her baby could be Michael’s.

    : ) P

  182. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227827"][quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
    Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
    Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
    ****************************
    The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]

    Wow I didn’t interpret that scene that way at all. I thought Micheal’s happiness came from the ultimate end of their “thing”. Because he knew he could never be with her happily ever after, he had a bomb to take care of, and he didn’t have the greatest faith in his plan.

  183. Courtney says:

    [quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    Freezing the battery was just a way of stalling, or delaying the inevitable. They WERE trying to un-arm the bomb, they were just freezing the bomb to give them more time.

    I have to say — I was very well pleased with this season finale. And as far as I’m concerned, Penny + Desmond = A very happy me. All I wanted to see was them get back together; they can do whatever they want with the show from now on, and I won’t care.

  184. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227830"]Charlotte is way younger than Ben, there is no way she could be Annie. She could however be Annie’s daughter (?)

    This fits a lot better with the character ages. It would also make sense if Annie got off the island right before the purge if she had told her daughter about the island and maybe also about her friend Ben Linus.[/quote]

    As much as I love the idea that Charlotte is Annie, I am not sure I agree it is the case. However, the age difference MAY be explained Charlotte she was somewhere “not aging” like Captain Eyeliner, oops, I mean Alpert.

    : ) P

  185. vaughn says:

    [quote comment="227829"]that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…[/quote]

    im not trying to burst the sayid bad ass bubble but keamy would have killed him if he wasnt shot in the back cause he was gonna choke him to death

  186. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.

  187. Rita says:

    Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.

    Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.

  188. omar says:

    Hey what about Hugo playing chess with Mr. Echo…, he said “checkmate”…any comments on that….

  189. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227839"][quote comment="227830"]Charlotte is way younger than Ben, there is no way she could be Annie. She could however be Annie’s daughter (?)

    This fits a lot better with the character ages. It would also make sense if Annie got off the island right before the purge if she had told her daughter about the island and maybe also about her friend Ben Linus.[/quote]

    As much as I love the idea that Charlotte is Annie, I am not sure I agree it is the case. However, the age difference MAY be explained Charlotte she was somewhere “not aging” like Captain Eyeliner, oops, I mean Alpert.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?

  190. tboof says:

    [quote comment="227811"]Hey, the Octagon Global Recruiting site… they mention July 24 to 27 in San Diego. Is that when Comic-Con is?

    Also, a little chuckle to share… my niece is trying to think of something she can do to help people and travel. The Peace Corps is too structured for her, so when I saw that commercial, I thought, “Ooh, I should give that web address to Katie.”

    LOL

    Good thing I checked it out first!

    : ) P[/quote]
    Comic Con is indeed in San Diego on those dates. The “terms and conditions” on the Octagon site seemed to be related to sweepstakes entries, so I’m guessing this is not an ARG…:( Bummer.

  191. omar says:

    [quote comment="227840"][quote comment="227829"]that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…[/quote]

    im not trying to burst the sayid bad ass bubble but keamy would have killed him if he wasnt shot in the back cause he was gonna choke him to death[/quote]
    ================

    Say vaughn, Who the F*** asked you??

  192. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
    Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
    Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
    Would you watch it here or there?
    Would you watch it on an island with a boar?

  193. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t catch that. Sometimes I think I have adult onset ADD.

  194. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227810"]I have the same question. How many more seasons? Is there only going to be 4 and a half seasons in the series? I think that is my last recollection, but I can’t find answers ANYWHERE.
    But I want more![/quote]

    There are two more seasons left. Originally, we were promised 48 episodes. Seasons 4, 5 and 6 were each going to be sixteen episodes long. Then the WGA strike interfered with Season 4, and we ended up with twelve episodes (which include the three hour finale).

    The producers then said that the deficit of episodes would be made up to us in Seasons 5 and 6.

    Then, S4E12 expanded to three hours. That gives us 12 episodes, but fourteen HOURS. If you count episodes, we have 36 left to go. If you count hours, we have 34 left to go.

    D&C have not clarified if they are counting the final episode as one, two or three episodes with respect to the total 48.

    But either way, we have two more seasons to look forward to. Season 5 is scheduled for early 2009.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  195. Garth says:

    [quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]

    Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:

    A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in

    or

    B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh

    I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all

  196. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.

    Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
    I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.

  197. wish i were lost says:

    Anyone wonder why all of the “visions” of dead people are telling the losties to back to the island except for Kate? I am.

  198. omar says:

    [quote comment="227848"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
    Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
    Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
    Would you watch it here or there?
    Would you watch it on an island with a boar?[/quote]
    ===========

    Ok Dr. Seuss, lol, where u been at…and the last one didnt rhyme…

  199. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227827"][quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
    Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
    Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
    ****************************
    The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]

    was that in part 1 of the finale?

  200. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227850"][quote comment="227810"]I have the same question. How many more seasons? Is there only going to be 4 and a half seasons in the series? I think that is my last recollection, but I can’t find answers ANYWHERE.
    But I want more![/quote]

    There are two more seasons left. Originally, we were promised 48 episodes. Seasons 4, 5 and 6 were each going to be sixteen episodes long. Then the WGA strike interfered with Season 4, and we ended up with twelve episodes (which include the three hour finale).

    The producers then said that the deficit of episodes would be made up to us in Seasons 5 and 6.

    Then, S4E12 expanded to three hours. That gives us 12 episodes, but fourteen HOURS. If you count episodes, we have 36 left to go. If you count hours, we have 34 left to go.

    D&C have not clarified if they are counting the final episode as one, two or three episodes with respect to the total 48.

    But either way, we have two more seasons to look forward to. Season 5 is scheduled for early 2009.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]
    ————–
    Thank you SO much. I haven’t been keeping up with Lostnews recently.

  201. DocH says:

    Hey Vaughn! Who might have been killed if he wasn’t shot in the back, because he was gonna be choked to death.

  202. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="227807"]dude i dont care if u like him or not but keamy was a bad ass[/quote]
    there is a big difference between bad ass and asshole….(sorry to offend)

  203. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227852"][quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.

    Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
    I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.[/quote]
    ****************************
    Yeah, you’re right, not officially confimed, so we will just have to wait and see (like with everything else we want to know!). Just curious Hammer, why DON’T you think she is Michael’s?

  204. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227854"][quote comment="227848"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
    Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
    Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
    Would you watch it here or there?
    Would you watch it on an island with a boar?[/quote]
    ===========

    Ok Dr. Seuss, lol, where u been at…and the last one didnt rhyme…[/quote]
    ———————————
    Are there even boars on the island?
    JK

  205. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227844"]Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?[/quote]

    Early in S4 (don’t know the episodes well enough to say which one), Ben is held captive and John is asking for answers. Ben rattles off Charlotte’s vital statistics, which include that she is 25 (which caused issues, given that she has a PhD in anthropology, not easy to get so young).

    We know Ben was born in the early 60’s, making him somewhere in his early 40’s in 2004.

    : ) P

  206. vaughn says:

    [quote comment="227857"]Hey Vaughn! Who might have been killed if he wasn’t shot in the back, because he was gonna be choked to death.[/quote]

    i was talking about keamy and sayid fighting and how keamy would have beat sayid if keamy was not shot in the back because he was choking sayid to death…and yes keamy was an asshole but u cant deny that the man wasnt taking care of his business although i think it was cool ben killed him

  207. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227860"][quote comment="227854"][quote comment="227848"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know –
    I don’t care what you think –
    I don’t care what you think you might know –
    I don’t care what you know you might think…
    That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
    Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
    Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
    Would you watch it here or there?
    Would you watch it on an island with a boar?[/quote]
    ===========

    Ok Dr. Seuss, lol, where u been at…and the last one didnt rhyme…[/quote]
    ———————————
    Are there even boars on the island?
    JK[/quote]
    *******************************
    Well there were season 1. That’s what they ate until the Dharma food drops were discovered.

  208. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]

    Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:

    A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in

    or

    B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh

    I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
    ———————————–
    I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.

  209. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227865"][quote comment="227844"]Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?[/quote]

    Early in S4 (don’t know the episodes well enough to say which one), Ben is held captive and John is asking for answers. Ben rattles off Charlotte’s vital statistics, which include that she is 25 (which caused issues, given that she has a PhD in anthropology, not easy to get so young).

    We know Ben was born in the early 60’s, making him somewhere in his early 40’s in 2004.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———————————————–
    Thanks!

  210. Halliwax says:

    My 2 cents on Charlotte/Annie..

    when we first saw her she was searching for the island in the sahara desert/tunisia vicinity.. a similar locale to where ben was found wandering earlier this year.. the only way she could have known about that place was if she had previous knowledge of the island and/or was on the island.. and the sahara coast is probably one of the other locations for the island after it’s moved.. so she most likely is annie

  211. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227851"]
    Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:

    A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in

    or

    B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh

    I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
    Thanks for your insight – I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with pointing out mistakes or unrealistic events in this show. Like Pam, I know nothing about explosives or electricity, so I bought Desmond’s explanation. I know they occasionally have some unrealistic scenarios on this show for dramatic purposes, and unless I’m knowledgeable about the subject, I’ll shrug it off. However, I will be interested in seeing what Popular Mechanics has to say about those explosives.

  212. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227871"][
    I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]

    The thing is, even if they COULD have disarmed the bomb in any way, they had to KNOW how to do it. They were TRYING to figure it out, but none of them had enough expertise to disarm the bomb in the time they had.

    : ) P

  213. Garth says:

    [quote comment="227871"][quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]

    Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:

    A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in

    or

    B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh

    I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
    ———————————–
    I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]

    Point A is a hypothetical. IF the bomb is going to explode without a power source, it would explode immediately after the battery was frozen, because there is no power being emmited. The frozen battery may as well be a rock.

    Point B is that, if the bomb doesnt explode because the battery is frozen, then why can’t they just disconnect it.

  214. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]

    Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:

    A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in

    or

    B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh

    I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]

    COuldn’t the time difference play into that or no?

  215. omar says:

    yall r making too much of the bomb….if the island didnt want the bomb to go off it would not have…but jacob showed up and the bomb exploded, so yes the island blew up the freighter cause it does not want anyone to leave….

  216. PJSander says:

    Anyone want to take any guesses as to how many people, between now and midnight tomorrow night, post with “I don’t have time to read all the posts, but…” or something like it?

    : ) P

  217. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227859"][quote comment="227852"][quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.

    Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
    I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.[/quote]
    ****************************
    Yeah, you’re right, not officially confimed, so we will just have to wait and see (like with everything else we want to know!). Just curious Hammer, why DON’T you think she is Michael’s?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Like I say, I appreciate your thoughts on it. I just never really bought into the idea. I think it’s a case of you are interpreting the acting to support your idea. Just like how I did with Sun being pissed at Jack. So you could be totally correct.

  218. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227920"]Anyone want to take any guesses as to how many people, between now and midnight tomorrow night, post with “I don’t have time to read all the posts, but…” or something like it?

    : ) P[/quote]
    Vegas has the over/under at 12. :)

  219. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227748"]Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again[/quote]

    Was that the same way that Desmond said goodbye to Jack in the flashback,when they were both running at the stadium?

    : ) P

  220. Hammer says:

    I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this….just too quiet.

  221. Halliwax says:

    [quote comment="227865"][quote comment="227844"]Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?[/quote]

    Early in S4 (don’t know the episodes well enough to say which one), Ben is held captive and John is asking for answers. Ben rattles off Charlotte’s vital statistics, which include that she is 25 (which caused issues, given that she has a PhD in anthropology, not easy to get so young).

    We know Ben was born in the early 60’s, making him somewhere in his early 40’s in 2004.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Actually I’m 25 and majored in archaeology in college, which is within the framework of the anthropology departments, and would be nearing the completion of my phD right now had I not gone a different route.. several friends have accomplished what they’re saying Charlotte has so I’d say her age is legit.. shes probably experienced some of that non-aging phenomenon Alpert somehow exhibits

  222. DocH says:

    [quote comment="227912"]
    Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion.
    [/quote]
    Essentially correct, but the explosives scenario presented was BASICALLY correct. No errors.

  223. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227923"][quote comment="227748"]Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again[/quote]

    Was that the same way that Desmond said goodbye to Jack in the flashback,when they were both running at the stadium?

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Yep.

  224. Tasha says:

    I don’t think that Micheal and Sun were that close. He ran into her with no shirt once, she told him the truth about speaking English, but that’s about it….I don’t know. I would think that the writers would just let us know. Plus she confided in Juliet that she had an affair, why wouldn’t she just tell her she had sex with Micheal too? I really need to see this look that he gave her.

  225. Len says:

    Looks like they’re all going back. Widmore is so wealthy. Ben must have worked with him at one time. They either had a bet or a common experiment, or both. Widmore broke the rules by killing Ben’s daughter. Is the island under some kind of a dome? It’s studying behavior for one thing. Remember back in the beginning when all the mind games were going on? Kate in the cage? They’ve tested Jack and Sawyer a lot. They had their records. I also think Widmore would do anything to keep Penny away from her one true love. This could also be a dream or a fantasy – maybe Hurley’s. He’s saved them a bunch of times. Charlotte is connected to Ben somehow – and it is possible that Sun’s baby is Michael’s. It’s a tangled web of relationships and personal conflicts – just like life! Looks like someone decided to study it!

  226. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227924"]I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this….just too quiet.[/quote]

    He may be in Arizona watching it late! Didn’t he do that not long ago or was that someone else?

  227. MLC says:

    Ugh….so Lost is turning into one big religious allegory. I was kinda hoping Reason (Jack) would dominate Faith (Locke). Oh well, still an entertaining and thought provoking show. Before you got to sleep tonight pray to the island for your soul to keep…..

  228. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="227928"][quote comment="227912"]
    Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion.
    [/quote]
    Essentially correct, but the explosives scenario presented was BASICALLY correct. No errors.[/quote]

    Can you please tell me what number comment you quoted?

  229. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227936"][quote comment="227924"]I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this….just too quiet.[/quote]

    He may be in Arizona watching it late! Didn’t he do that not long ago or was that someone else?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I think DocH was pulling our collective chain back then.

  230. DocH says:

    [quote]
    I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this… just too quiet.
    [/quote]
    IT IS TOUGH to write a 12 page thesis when 95% of your questions (short-term) HAVE BEEN addressed. Frozen donkey wheel? – close but no cigarillo. Frozen = Parka (DUH!). Arm wound = broken FDW ladder (DUH!).

  231. PJSander says:

    So the Octagon thing has me thinking… eight is one of the numbers. If the four toed statue was built as a monument to someone or something, it would have had eight toes in total.

    Eight people “survived” the crash. Eight people were on the helicopter / life raft.

    There are eight main characters “left” behind: Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles and Locke.

    Btw, I noticed that in the last few episodes they’ve only shown Claire from the shoulders up. Couple that with the puffiness in her face, I would venture to guess that Emilie de Ravin is pregnant.

    Just a thought.

    : ) P

  232. Hammer says:

    Okay, for the last time this season I have a bedtime for Bonzo ponder thought:

    Sun: Why does she enlist CW to find the island instead of talking with the O6? She’s pissed at how it all went down. She blames Jack for all the circumstances that lead to Jin’s possible death. She knows CW managed to find the island once, so is she riding his back to find it again? Does she become the economist because of her obsession with getting revenge for Jin much like how Ben is paying for his need to get revenge for Alex?

    The look on her face when she walked away from CW reminded my of everytime Ben turned away from someone he just conned into thinking something was their own idea……………………

  233. Miss Kim says:

    [quote comment="227930"][quote comment="227923"][quote comment="227748"]Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again[/quote]

    Was that the same way that Desmond said goodbye to Jack in the flashback,when they were both running at the stadium?

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Yep.[/quote]
    ****************************************

    Yay. I made it! For some reason I thought Des told Jack “See you in another life, brotha.” Maybe I’m thinking of some one else.

  234. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227944"][quote]
    I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this… just too quiet.
    [/quote]
    IT IS TOUGH to write a 12 page thesis when 95% of your questions (short-term) HAVE BEEN addressed. Frozen donkey wheel? – close but no cigarillo. Frozen = Parka (DUH!). Arm wound = broken FDW ladder (DUH!).[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Yeah, I was really pulling for the time line collision….maybe next season?

  235. DocH says:

    [quote]
    I think DocH was pulling our collective chain back then.
    [/quote]
    Okay… thanks for the love. Career pilot – fly my own Baron. Four Homes. Fort Worth, Durango, Tucson and Sonoma. Three daughters, widower, getting ready to adopt a fourth girl – best friends’ only child… catch you all next season (maybe).

  236. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="227964"][quote]
    I think DocH was pulling our collective chain back then.
    [/quote]
    Okay… thanks for the love. Career pilot – fly my own Baron. Four Homes. Fort Worth, Durango, Tucson and Sonoma. Three daughters, widower, getting ready to adopt a fourth girl – best friends’ only child… catch you all next season (maybe).[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Good luck sir. I hope you aren’t checking out until next season, but if you are….I don’t like the “maybe”. I’ll be very bummed out if you don’t come back.

  237. slugdoc says:

    Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.

    You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
    He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
    Let’s say in real time 2004 he is say 38 years old. (and wears eyeliner). He realizes that the island will need aomone to save it so he goes back in time and recruits Ben. Zoom! Back to 2004. Ben can’t do it all. Alpert zooms back to recruit Locke. Locke’s not ready? Zoom to another time point and try again! OK now go and get Juliet.
    All of it is happening at or close to the same time so of course Alpert doesn’t look much different! It is the same 2004 (or whatever time) Alpert in each scene!

    Whew. Got that?

    Ok other small points – people were asking whether Hugo gave Sun his fortune to buy out dad? No. We know Hugo have the money to HIS dad. When he saw the car and freaked his dad said “we got this for you before you gave us the money”

  238. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227974"]You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age. He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.[/quote]

    Could be. Except I seem to remember in a flashback, Alpert was hanging around a pre-teen Ben quite a bit.

    [quote comment="227974"]Ok other small points – people were asking whether Hugo gave Sun his fortune to buy out dad? No. We know Hugo have the money to HIS dad. When he saw the car and freaked his dad said “we got this for you before you gave us the money”[/quote]

    Hurley won $156 million. The interest alone (at a meager 3% simple interest) would generate about $400,000 a month. He could have given his parents HALF the money (or even less) and still had enough to help Sun. I am not saying he DID, just that he could have.

    : ) P

  239. daddy03 says:

    Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?

  240. squad says:

    Didn’t Sun state that she received a big settlement from the airline and that was how she bought out a controlling interest in her father’s company?

  241. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Well daddy03, YOU might not care about all those people (and Rose and Bernard), but I do think Jack cared.

    : ) P

  242. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227910"][quote comment="227871"][
    I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]

    The thing is, even if they COULD have disarmed the bomb in any way, they had to KNOW how to do it. They were TRYING to figure it out, but none of them had enough expertise to disarm the bomb in the time they had.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———————————————–
    Ookay! Now I see your point.

  243. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227911"][quote comment="227871"][quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]

    I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]

    Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:

    A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in

    or

    B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh

    I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
    ———————————–
    I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]

    Point A is a hypothetical. IF the bomb is going to explode without a power source, it would explode immediately after the battery was frozen, because there is no power being emmited. The frozen battery may as well be a rock.

    Point B is that, if the bomb doesnt explode because the battery is frozen, then why can’t they just disconnect it.[/quote]
    ———————————————–
    Thanks for the simpler language. It’s getting clearer and clearer. The nice thing about watching people on tv interact with bombs is that it’s fictional. In the end all that matters is if you were entertained then the show served it’s purpose.

  244. Circus Mom says:

    I havn’t read so breifly,

    John “Did he say what I think he said?”
    Ben “If you mean time traveling bunnies, then yes!”

    I thought Sun would go up against Widmore but…..

    They ALL have to go back?

    Four years trying to get off the island, two trying to return.

    W O W

  245. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="227992"]Didn’t Sun state that she received a big settlement from the airline and that was how she bought out a controlling interest in her father’s company?[/quote]

    All the O6 did, apparently. However, there was a discussion after a previous episode that Paik Industries was very large company and that the settlement would like not have been enough to buy a controlling interest.

    There was talk of Hurley giving Sun some of the lottery money.

    Now, with “five banks” involved, it was suggested that it was the five adult O6’ers that contributed to Sun’s controlling interest.

    : ) P

  246. Pam says:

    [quote comment="227993"][quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Well daddy03, YOU might not care about all those people (and Rose and Bernard), but I do think Jack cared.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———————————————–
    Ditto!

  247. Newbie says:

    Can someone please enlighten me on the following:

    Why did the island choose to ‘release’ Michael at this particular moment and not before? How did that serve a greater purpose because it didn’t seem like he sacrificed his life to save anyone because everyone on the freighter except Sun and Desmond died anyway? Him freezing the battery may have bought them some time but, again, it only saveed Sun and Desmond.

    I really really hope that Jin is not dead. It didn’t sadden me so much that Charlie died or that Locke’s dead, but I really want Jin and Sun to have a happy ending. Their few moments of reconciliation and redemption for Sun admitting that she had an affair didn’t really give much closure to the whole Sun-Jin story. Also, when CW asked Sun why she wanted to go back to the island, I’m hoping that its because she has some clue that Jin’s alive. Maybe Jeremy Bentham/Locke told her??

    And how come the island let Locke die?? He must not be the chosen one, or, like the island stopped being happy with Ben, it stopped being happy with Locke.
    And if Aaron is the chosen one, why does Claire not want him to come back?

    I also think that the dead people, like Charlie, Echo etc, are themselves. They’re not the island using their bodies. Otherwise, why would Claire show so much concern for Aaron if that wasn’t her in Kate’s dream. Or maybe she’s not dead?

    Okey..lotsa questions!! Greatly appreciate any thoughts!

  248. intolost says:

    Whoa, dude!!! How will we all make it until January??? Sigh….

    Ponderings:

    1. Well, apparently Michael was right when he said he was there on the frieghter to die.

    2. Ji Yeon is Jin’s. She looks just like Jin. I think Sun had just had a fight with Jin when she ran into Michael in the jungle. There was no love scene between them cuz Vincent interrupted them before they kissed. Considering Michael’s constant freak outs about Walt, Michael would have totally freaked out if he knew Sun was pregnant with his child. Sun just told Michael she was pregnant because he knew she and Jin were having big problems when he was still on the island. Sun just wanted Michael to know that she and Jin are happy and pregnant now.

    3. WHAT ABOUT VINCENT??? : (

    4. Alpert, Locke, CS Lewis connection?
    CSLewis “Red”—-wild thought—-she’s Locke’s baby sis. Emily (Locke’s mom—very red!) had Locke when she was a teen, right? Therefore, she could’ve still had another baby much later—-CS Lewis. Maybe by Alpert since he came to see baby Locke, doesn’t seem to age, and maybe later took interest in Locke’s mom. Remember, Alpert told Locke, “Welcome home.”

    5. Why did the island let Locke die? The “apparent suicide” totally has to be cover up of the real cause of his death. Did Ben kill him? Did Widmore kill him? Obviously the island is not done with Jack. Hmmm…well, if the island still needs Locke, why isn’t he “here, but not here” like Charlie?

    6. What bad things are happening on the island? Alpert up to no good?

    7. Wow, what’s up with Sun? Femme fatale or what? It will be interesting to see how her role will play out. I think Sun blames Ben or Widmore as the second person for Jin’s death, not Jack. I could totally see her being vengeful towards Ben, but not Jack. Is she going after Ben, or is she setting a trap for Widmore?

    8. Did Sun look pregnant for the second time when she met with Widmore? Hard to tell with her trench coat, but I think so. She was talking to Ji Yeon on the phone, so it would be baby number 2 she’s pregnant with. Hurley, Jr.? Jin must truly be dead for Sun to transform into this femme fatale. Or maybe not.

    9. Penny, keep running! But with Des now, of course.

    10. Whatever Sawyer told Kate on the chopper was the errand she was running for him.

    11. Night, night!

  249. kellyboy says:

    So Charlotte and Miles have been to the island before right? Were they raised on the island? Could Miles be the son of the instructor on the Dharma Initiative videos?

  250. Pam says:

    I have thoughts on Sun and Widmore, but it reads like a messy, un-researched term paper that deserves a “D”. What I need is a peer-review…well, here is the rough draft:

    Sun

    When she talked to Widmore in London I think her plan was to lay the ground work of a sort of business/blackmail relationship with him. She wants him to come to her the next time they meet, that’s why she gave him her business card which opens possible, but not mandatory interactions in the future. If she lets him, and if she plays him right, Widmore will come to Sun. This I hope, is Sun’s plan to get just close enough to Widmore to get her revenge. When she was talking to him face to face I saw a face of a practiced business woman with a plan. I think after watching her love (Jin that is, her husband, her baby’s father, she loves him) probably die on the freighter (I have a feeling the producers will clarify that Jin died on the freighter-you know there will be questions asked for their podcast) Sun gained something from her life on the island that empowers her. Her whole life was lived as a subordinate daughter and wife until she crashed onto an island. I think her covert flirting with Micheal (they shared great chemistry) and her experience of having to actually work and fight to survive gave her mental strength, diplomatic skill, and personal identity. Sun is a new woman.

    Now, with a love to grieve, a daughter to raise Sun has a new life, and a new self to direct. I think, I hope that this new woman is planning to make Widmore pay…to get revenge.

    *Now I want to know if I can work this into a theory, although it’s just a character sketch. Any thoughts on my Sunny thoughts?

    **Maybe we should have threads where we can discuss individual characters, like theories, but just disections of who they are and what they can become…what the series can become…

    I apologize for my 2 am attempts at television fueled enlightenment.

  251. Kathy says:

    [quote comment="227749"][quote comment="227610"]I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something. Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that.
    [/quote]
    Great call, Kathy. I was glad to see this development.

    I hope Faraday is still alive and remains a regular character – I wonder what happened to that raft?[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    Thanks man. I think I just got a little over zealous in my Charlotte analyzing. Now I’m boggled over this Charlotte born on the island thing. I was shocked at how she seemed to just blow off Faraday.

    I was sorta thinking Sun’s baby was Micheal’s. There was a part on the freighter where she actually screamed for Micheal and not Jin, when both guys were in the same vicinity.

    Not concrete on this Micheal’s baby idea…it would negate a lot of last season Jin stuff but the idea did occur to me as I watched the show.

    Could any one make out what was said on the phone that woke Kate up for her Claire apparition? What is whispers? It sounded more like some one (Sawyer’s voice?) actually saying something just low and creepy.

  252. Pam says:

    Wow maybe I shouldn’t think about Lost this late at night. intolost, you summarized my Sun ramblings in two words, “Femme Fatale”.

    Okay here are my thoughts about Locke, pay no heed:

    Locke and the Island

    John’s motto, if you want to look at it that way, is, “This Island has a purpose”. Some people ask, if the Island has a purpose for Locke, why did he die? Locke didn’t die on the Island did he? What if Locke fullfilled his purpose, and when he returned “home” to talk the O6 into returning because the Island has a purpose for them NOW. So maybe Locke reached Island-induced enlightenment and died peacfully.

  253. Pam says:

    I apologize for my grammar mistakes. My grammar will improve with sleep.
    Ugggggggggggggggh, sleep.

  254. Bobola says:

    The reason that they HAVE to go back is they are all dead. The world is out of balance with them off the island.

    Cool episodes.
    Too bad Keamy is gone; Now who am I gonna be terrified of? Glad to see him back from the dead for a minute.
    Tip; when fighting BAd dudes; check the damn pulse and then shoot them in the head for good luck…ha!

    I want more smarty mouth Miles! Someone has to tell that pouty Charlotte off.

    One Bitch;
    One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!

    Jack seems dense trying to tell Hugo the island didn’t move…what Medical School did he go to?
    In Dumbsville? Someone said pill popping Jack represents “reason”…oh please!

    Rose sure was a bitch to Miles…why?

    Happy that; Michaels dead…finally.

    Why didn’t Jin jump off the damn Ship?
    Don’t believe he’s dead at all; as someone mentioned isn’t he in some Fast Forwards. How’s that?

    And Sawyer; it was a ship not a “boat”.
    And now that’s it’s gone I can’t stop mentioning my Pet Peeve…(I hear sighs of relief out there…ha.)

    Where did the Zodiac boat go when the island moved?

    I think Jin is setting Widmore up; she can’t be dumb enough to side with him—and also not such a slutty pig to screw Michael. She was so happy to be pregnant and if she had Jungle Fever on the island she would be super worried about the baby coming along. No way.

    And LOST CHICKA: One can be both a bad ass and an asshole, me thinks.

    Miss Kim; scolding about the rules just makes me want to break them. Rules are made to be broken. John Locke told me that (Don’t tell me what I can’t do!)

  255. mimi says:

    Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…

    I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???

  256. Halliwax says:

    Jin is either dead or on some random island in the middle of nowhere with natives.. therefore probably dead

    He may have been able to jump off ship easily because they panned out with the camera and didn’t show us much.. but he would then be stuck in the water.. since lapidus said there was only ocean in each direction.. and he couldnt swim back to the island prior to it being moved because even the helicopter couldnt make it back in time

    and since indonesia is 3000 miles and one week away.. hes stuck in no mans land.. unless the producers come up with some whacked out crazy angle to bring him back to life for a season 6 reunion with his desperate asian housewife

  257. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="227709"]Hammer
    Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.

    ++++++++++++++
    Hey, I got one![/quote]
    ————-
    Don’t sell your self short….It was #156 last week.

  258. Mustachio says:

    Just some quick random comments after reading everyone’s posts:

    . Widmore told Ben he was hiding his daughter and Ben would never find her. We now know Desmond is also in hiding with her. Thats why Sun said Widmore knew more people got off the island. He is hiding Penny and Des.
    . Ben ends up in Tunisia the same way that Desmond ended up back in time after the hatch exploded. They both came in contact with the ‘mystery matter’ that is apparently part of the source of the island’s powers. Ben’s purposeful contact moved the island while Desmond’s obviously did not.
    . It is ridiculous that I am already this excited for next season. I think that all the “current” action will be the intertwined stories of Jack trying to get the Oceanic Six back to the Island and Ben trying to track down Penny(along with Desmond), while the flashbacks will deal with everything that happened on the island from the moment it moved(including Faraday’s raft people. I would think the season will culminate with everyone getting back to Island in the final episode setting up the last season which will be all island, all the time. SWEET LORD, I LOVE THIS SHOW.

  259. rose says:

    “Im gonna keep my eye on you shorty”.

  260. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227974"]Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.

    You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
    He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
    Let’s say in real time 2004 he is say 38 years old. (and wears eyeliner). He realizes that the island will need aomone to save it so he goes back in time and recruits Ben. Zoom! Back to 2004. Ben can’t do it all. Alpert zooms back to recruit Locke. Locke’s not ready? Zoom to another time point and try again! OK now go and get Juliet.
    All of it is happening at or close to the same time so of course Alpert doesn’t look much different! It is the same 2004 (or whatever time) Alpert in each scene!

    Whew. Got that?
    [/quote]
    That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.

  261. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228024"]Can someone please enlighten me on the following:

    Why did the island choose to ‘release’ Michael at this particular moment and not before? How did that serve a greater purpose because it didn’t seem like he sacrificed his life to save anyone because everyone on the freighter except Sun and Desmond died anyway? Him freezing the battery may have bought them some time but, again, it only saveed Sun and Desmond.
    [/quote]

    The timing did seem a bit odd to me also. He didn’t seem to accomplish much between the time Keamy tried to kill him (and failed) and the time the ship exploded. Other than saving a few characters, which also included Aaron. So maybe that was the point, he was able to help Aaron get rescued, and if Aaron is an important character as many have speculated, the timing makes a little more sense.

  262. lostfan says:

    I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?

  263. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228024"]
    And if Aaron is the chosen one, why does Claire not want him to come back?
    [/quote]
    That scene puzzled me. It could have just been a dream – earlier in the episode there was the scene where Kate yelled at Jack for suggesting they go back. So with that on her mind, she had a dream relating to that issue. But I don’t believe that Claire’s appearance was simply a dream. There were whispers on the phone in that scene, which makes me think that Claire’s appearance was caused by, or allowed by, the island. Also, Claire’s insistence that Aaron not be brought back to the island seems to be consistent with the scene from “Cabin Fever” with Claire and Christian in the cabin. Claire was very calm and happy in that scene, as if that is where she belonged, and Christian said something about Aaron being where he belonged (which was with Sawyer, who would help get Aaron off the island, and this ties into what I mentioned in the previous post about Michael’s work being done once Aaron was off the ship and headed for rescue).

    However, how does this tie in with Ben telling Jack they ALL must go back to the island (presumably including Aaron also)? If Ben’s viewpoint is opposite of Claire’s and Christian’s, does that mean Ben no longer in the island’s good graces? (as an aside, it seemed to me that when Richard and Ben came face to face, Richard didn’t seem particularly happy to see Ben, so maybe Richard knew the island no longer wanted/needed Ben, and he only helped save Ben from Keamy so he could move the island and subsequently could never come back to the island) (as another aside, perhaps Widmore has a similar relationship with the island – at one point he lived on the island and was a leader, but then he fell out of favor with the island, and at one point had to move the island, so he cannot go back to it and he doesn’t know where it is). But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.

    Sorry for rambling but this show continues to leave me confused (but in a good way) and a million different ideas are running through my mind. I hope this made sense. It’s amazing how they can answer so many questions, yet still raise more and more.

  264. Toeknee says:

    And yet ANOTHER puzzler – Locke was told to move the island as a way of escaping the threat of Keamy and his crew. Once those guys were all killed, and the ship had blown up, and almost everyone that Widmore hired (except Mile, Charlotte, Frank and Daniel) had died, the threat was eliminated, no? Widmore himself didn’t know where the island was, and without all those people on the ship, he wouldn’t be able to find it. So it seems like it wouldn’t have been necessary to move the island?

  265. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
    1) I think D&C explained that electrical signals do not experience the time differential. There have been numerous examples of this – people on the island talking via sat phone to people on the freighter, the morse code message. So presumably Keamy’s arm thingy works in the same fashion.

    2) I wonder if they were to try to take Keamy’s arm thingy off, it would immediately detect no pulse, and that would set off the explosives.

  266. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228011"]
    John “Did he say what I think he said?”
    Ben “If you mean time traveling bunnies, then yes!”
    [/quote]

    [quote comment="228087"]“Im gonna keep my eye on you shorty”.[/quote]

    LOL! Those were two of my favorite lines. Also:

    (while Jack and Locke were talking at the Orchid Station)
    Sawyer: “What are those two talking about?”
    Hurley: “Leader stuff?”

  267. Toeknee says:

    RE: comment 250, Pam’s “Sun Theory”:

    I agree with a lot of what you wrote, that Sun may very well be playing Widmore and looking to exact revenge. However, I disagree that she is a “new woman”. She’s always been portrayed as manipulative and less than innocent. For example: planning to leave Jin and secretly run away with Jae to the US; using her father’s name to threaten Jin’s real mother; as a little girl, she let the maid take the blame for “The Glass Ballerina” breaking.

  268. Rita says:

    [quote comment="227921"][quote comment="227859"][quote comment="227852"][quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.

    Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
    I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.[/quote]
    ****************************
    Yeah, you’re right, not officially confimed, so we will just have to wait and see (like with everything else we want to know!). Just curious Hammer, why DON’T you think she is Michael’s?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Like I say, I appreciate your thoughts on it. I just never really bought into the idea. I think it’s a case of you are interpreting the acting to support your idea. Just like how I did with Sun being pissed at Jack. So you could be totally correct.[/quote]
    *************************
    And I think you are totally correct about Sun being pissed at Jack – in complete agreement there.

  269. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228051"]
    One Bitch;
    One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!
    [/quote]
    I assume you’re joking – the tank was a bit out of reach.

    But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off, and they would have noticed the leaking then (at least by smell, if not by sight).

  270. BigE says:

    I agree that Widmore was on the island and had to move it, therefore nt allowing him back. Wasn’t John told to move the island, but in fact Ben moved it? Did this put a wrench in Jacobs plan?

  271. Toeknee says:

    First scene:

    I loved how they showed the final scene from TTLG, and then the first scene of this episode picked up right where they left off.

    Here’s some of the dialogue about Jeremy Bentham:

    Kate: When he came to me and I heard what he had to say I knew he was crazy, but you believed him.
    Jack: Yes I did because he said that was the only way to keep you and Aaron safe.

    So, what did Jeremy Bentham say? That he wanted them to go back to the island? And if so, why? And, did Locke have the ability to come and go from the island, like Ben did? Or was this a one time (and one-way) trip?

  272. adriennez says:

    Ben said that whoever moves the island cannot come back…maybe Charles Widmore had the island, moved it, and could not come back but has been trying to for some time…when he and Ben talk about it, it sounds like Ben took the island from him.

    Another thought…maybe Charlotte is another Widmore daughter who was born on the island when Charles was there…Charlotte is kind of a feminine form of Charles…!

  273. spiralturtle says:

    [quote comment="227658"]Hey … what’s Aaron been eating for a day and a half since Claire wandered off? That baby should be screaming like crazy by now[/quote]
    ***
    I’ve been wondering that myself. Plus the lack of a diaper bag. I guess it’s just one of those details the writers decided not to worry about.

  274. Toeknee says:

    Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:

    “That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”

  275. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228051"]Why didn’t Jin jump off the damn Ship? Don’t believe he’s dead at all; as someone mentioned isn’t he in some Fast Forwards. How’s that?
    [/quote]

    Jin MAY have jumped off the freighter. If he did, he may have been “sucked down” when the island “disappeared.” I say sucked down because of the weird ripple it left behind when it left.

    But for the love of Pete, people, JIN WAS NOT IN A FLASHFORWARD! Please see posts 136, 103, 107, 114, 121, and 142 on THIS page (not to mention about a hundred other posts on other pages).

    Jin may well still be alive, but the panda/baby flashback is proof of NOTHING to do with his health in the future.

    : ) P

  276. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    The website is up and running now. ‘What website’ you ask? octagonglobalrecruiting.com

  277. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]

    I was wondering the same thing. It would have been worth a try. Slip it off and stick it on yourself.

    Someone also said that even if Jin jumped off the boat he would be in no man’s land. Where did the Faraday’s boat go? If that is still out there somewhere they could have picked up Jin. If they got transported with the island….so did Jin….maybe. I am sticking with this idea because there is no other explanation except that he is dead and I truly do not believe Jin is dead:(

  278. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…

    I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]

    In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P

  279. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="228129"]Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:

    “That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”[/quote]

    That is very interesting. Then he will be the one who speaks on behalf of Jacob? I thought history was going to repeat itself when they were floating in the raft and saw the light from the boat. Reminded me of when they took Walt, I thought they were coming for Aaron, and since the island was gone, it would have really been a WTF moment!

  280. Other42 says:

    [quote comment="228117"][quote comment="228051"]
    One Bitch;
    One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!
    [/quote]
    I assume you’re joking – the tank was a bit out of reach.

    But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off, and they would have noticed the leaking then (at least by smell, if not by sight).[/quote]

    That’s what bothered you?

    What bothered me was the stupid idea that Lapidas could patch the gas tank by putting some duct tape over the hole on the outside of the helicopter.

  281. well, it appears that “who’s the father” has now replaced “who’s in the coffin?”!! :)

    well, at least now we know why christian’s funeral was 10 months later….and why aaron didn’t seem older…because the island moved IN TIME. it was october 2005 when ben woke up in the desert, and since we know he just hurt his arm in the orchid, i think his desert traveling is just around the corner.

    when the island moved and the sky turned purple, it reminded me of the LAST time it turned purple…when the hatch imploded. that’s also when penny got the blip on the radar, right? i’m wondering if the island moved the FIRST time the sky turned purple and that’s why suddenly everyone can find them. thoughts?

    i don’t think charlotte is annie because charlotte is in her late 20s, and annie is roughly ben’s age. but more than that, i think that since ben knew everything about charlotte, i’m pretty sure he’d KNOW if she was annie.

    i’ve already got my ticket to san diego!!

  282. Other42 says:

    Sorry, the quoting failed. Let me try that again…

    [quote comment="228138"]
    But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off[/quote]

    That’s what bothered you?

    What bothered me was the stupid idea that Lapidas could patch the gas tank by putting some duct tape over the hole on the outside of the helicopter.[/quote]

  283. Slugdoc says:

    [quote comment="228101"][quote comment="227974"]Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.

    You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
    He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
    [/quote]
    That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]

    ***************’
    Excellent point, but he may just be making fun of Alpert’s habit of time traveling so much that birthdays become meaningless. (Since there is no more absolutist “now” and “then”)

  284. Margaret says:

    Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility!

  285. KillerR says:

    sayid loves to tackle some people i think.

  286. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="228138"][quote comment="228117"][quote comment="228051"]
    One Bitch;
    One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!
    [/quote]
    I assume you’re joking – the tank was a bit out of reach.

    But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off, and they would have noticed the leaking then (at least by smell, if not by sight).[/quote]

    That’s what bothered you?

    What bothered me was the stupid idea that Lapidas could patch the gas tank by putting some duct tape over the hole on the outside of the helicopter.[/quote]

    No, Not joking at all;
    I looked closely at the shot where the one hole was and one could easily reach it from the side opening. Look again. Someone could hold onto your legs as you reached out.

    And yes, the Duck tape (aka Duct Tape) would work…maybe not for long, but long enough to fly the short distance. That tape is famous for doing miracles…I use it all the time.

    I mentioned just before the show that they would have a bullit hole to deal with in the tank. ANY pilot always checks the craft before they fly; standard procedure…ok, ok, they were in a hurry but so much that no one noticed the holes?
    Hell, they were just in the middle of a fire fight.
    I don’t want to be such a nit picker but I’m also right about someone being able to stem the flow of at least one hole and that the tape would work at least temporarily. But not a big deal to me as a whole (hole).

    Jin’s head was just too small to see among the flotsam; he lives! Dude is just too tough to die. Maybe he survives and takes up with Charlotte later (who speaks his lingo). The plot thickens.

    Cool fight with Sayid and Keamy; Sayid is one bad ass mf…Keamy met his match!

    Creepy how on the flight back the Oceanic lady says in her weird tone re “the Oceanic Six”; …it’s not the best “branding”….ha, just like a Corporate drone speaks.

  287. steve f. says:

    Might be wrong here, but after Hurley checkmated Echo, Hurley’s piece (I think it was a queen) disappeared. Not sure if anyone else caught that.

  288. Sheppard says:

    [quote comment="228038"]Wow maybe I shouldn’t think about Lost this late at night. intolost, you summarized my Sun ramblings in two words, “Femme Fatale”.

    Okay here are my thoughts about Locke, pay no heed:

    Locke and the Island

    John’s motto, if you want to look at it that way, is, “This Island has a purpose”. Some people ask, if the Island has a purpose for Locke, why did he die? Locke didn’t die on the Island did he? What if Locke fullfilled his purpose, and when he returned “home” to talk the O6 into returning because the Island has a purpose for them NOW. So maybe Locke reached Island-induced enlightenment and died peacfully.[/quote]

    —-

    So I guess Ben would already have this ‘Island-induced enlightenment’. He doesn’t seem to be very enlightened to me. LOL

  289. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Would it make much sense if Jack says: “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, and mysterious others. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.” Um…I doubt he’d say that, or everything else they’ve all done to survive.

  290. GuttahMan says:

    So why does everyone seem to think Sun is a whore now? I dont believe Yi Jeon is Michaels for one minute….if so, dont you think Mike would have said something other than “congrats” to Sun when she told him? He also made Jin leave the bomb room because he is going to be a father…just doesnt make sense to me.

    Overall, this has been the best season finale i have ever seen, and proably the best season of lost to date. Kudos to those who guessed Locke was in the coffin….my theory on that is this….

    After the O6 leave Jack says that Jeremy (Locke) told him that terrible things happened on the island…im guessing that another situation occured and Locke may have had to move the island once more, therefore sending him back to the “real world”.

    I wonder how big of a part Walt will play next season, i have a feeling there is more to his story than meets the eye.

    I also like the theory that Charlotte is Annie or some variation of her.

    Thats all i got for now, the countdown to next season begins!!

  291. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
    yeah, i was yelling at locke to put the bloody heart monitor on! between michael freezing it and the time delay, he coulda saved everybody!

  292. JCK says:

    [quote comment="228144"]Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Ah, the plot thickens. I thought Jeremy Bentham was such an odd name…I was thinking that it was sort of an anagram of Benjamin – used just to throw us off for two hours, but I’m glad there is a more intriguing possibility.

  293. JCK says:

    [quote comment="228144"]Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Ah, the plot thickens. I thought Jeremy Bentham was such an odd name…I was thinking that it was sort of an anagram of Benjamin – used just to throw us off for two hours, but I’m glad there is a more intriguing possibility.

  294. swimmer99 says:

    great episode!!!

    i’m pissed that they killed off Jin’s character! there is still a slim possiblility that he could be alive. maybe he jumped off the boat, but it wasn’t shown on screen. but even if he did get off the boat would he have be relocated with the island? he was a good character, but so was charlie.

    locke being in the coffin was a huge surprise! i think that he will be brought back to life when they take him to the island because the island heals him.

    the fight scene between sayiid and keamy was AWESOME!!! sayid has to be one of my favorite characters.

    in no way is sun’s baby michael’s baby!!! sun is not that much of a slut. we have never been leaded to belive that they had an affair. it’s jin’s baby, and the show has clearly pointed that out. the reason sun told michael that she was pregnant was because she wanted him to know so he’d get jin out of the bomb area.

    i don’t think claire is dead; she’s missing. there was an episode in the first season where claire went to a psychic and he told her that she has to raise her baby, nobody else can. he also told her that her baby will save them all. so claire can’t be dead.

  295. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="228129"]Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:

    “That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”[/quote]
    OMG! that’s just awesome connection. OMG! Will Locke be Jacob’s new person to speak through? OMG!

  296. GuttahMan says:

    Another thing about Yi Jeon being Michaels….If this were true, and Michael fathered Sun’s baby, there would be no way that Sun’s family would forgive her for not only having an affair, but having a baby with a black man. So that little small talk between daddy Paik and Sun would’nt happen because she would easily be disowned by her family. Trust me, im an asian man who dates a black woman, i know about these things!!

  297. Margaret says:

    I thought that Jeremy Bentham was just an anagram and that it was actually BEN in the coffin. Pretty cool that the writers chose that name though because of the history behind the REAL Jeremy Bentham.

  298. ninny says:

    [quote comment="228125"]Ben said that whoever moves the island cannot come back…maybe Charles Widmore had the island, moved it, and could not come back but has been trying to for some time…when he and Ben talk about it, it sounds like Ben took the island from him.

    Another thought…maybe Charlotte is another Widmore daughter who was born on the island when Charles was there…Charlotte is kind of a feminine form of Charles…![/quote]

    I agree with the Widmore having been to the island and been the one to move it before.
    But what about Charlotte being Ben’s real daughter with Annie. She would be about the right age, Maybe Annie moved the island before and was preggers at the time and had baby off island.

  299. Lins says:

    So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?

  300. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    My two favorite parts of the episode:

    1.) When Sawyer swims back to the island and says to Juliette, “Nice day for a swim.”

    2.) When Hurley gives Sawyer the 14-year-old cracker and says it’s good and Sawyer takes a bite and likes it.

  301. skweez says:

    [quote comment="228108"]And yet ANOTHER puzzler – Locke was told to move the island as a way of escaping the threat of Keamy and his crew. Once those guys were all killed, and the ship had blown up, and almost everyone that Widmore hired (except Mile, Charlotte, Frank and Daniel) had died, the threat was eliminated, no? Widmore himself didn’t know where the island was, and without all those people on the ship, he wouldn’t be able to find it. So it seems like it wouldn’t have been necessary to move the island?[/quote]

    *****

    I initially thought the same thing. Then I realized that the purpose of moving the island was to get it out of the reach of Widmore, because he had found it. And I think he found it by using the Black Rock journal as well as beating up one of Ben’s operative’s for info. And of course any prior knowledge he may have had.

  302. Lins says:

    Also, since we had a literal frozen wheel…does that make Ben the donkey? ;)

  303. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.

    Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward.

    I was so creeped out when Christian Shephard appeared to Michael and told him he could go now. I interpreted that as him telling Michael that he could die now. But I don’t understand what the island’s purpose would be for him blowing up the freigther.

    Sawyer must have swam very fast for him to get to the island so quickly before the island moved. And I also want to know what happened to Daniel and the people in the raft. I think they couldn’t have been too far off shore and maybe they moved with the island.

    I think there is a good chance that Jin is still alive. When the explosion happened he could have been blown off the ship or jumped into the water. Is it possible that anything in the water within a certain vicinity around the island moves with the island when it moved? If so, that could explain where Daniel and the people on the raft went, and possibly allow Jin to still be with the island.

  304. RGS says:

    ****Whoop-Whoop-whoop!****…****Whoop-whoop-whoop***

    YELLOW ALERT…YELLOW ALERT. I would be derelict in my duty if I did not at least warn folks about the strength of the Potential Jumping of the Shark by our beloved show Lost.

    Yes a lot happened, some felt rushed imho, and yes questions answered, questions raised, but if the show begins to get even more extra nutty, I’m going to point to this episode as the JTS.

    Why? Well for me the O6 seeing the island disappear, is too incredible of an event for them to be so nonchalant in accepting Jack’s plan to lie about their whereabouts.

    None of them question him? If Jack was so hell bent on getting EVERYONE off, and he doesn’t think the island moved (when he clearly saw it, which incidentally broke the lid on the Pandora’s box of possibilities) AND becasue he is so hands on and didn’t witness any mercenary killing, would have probably thought that Locke in some way egged on any type of gun play. So it would seem to me, he’d try to go to the location to get the rest of them.

    I really have quite a long list of reasons, that I won’t get into because it is only lil ole me’s opinion and I don’t want to bash the show that I will continue to watch/blog about, as I’m heavily invested at this point.

    Ji Yeon is NOT Michael and Sun’s lovechild. For me that falls into the Charlie is alive category. Hell we could say that Juliette and Jin were lovers based on Juliette whistleblowing on Sun, and the way she looks at Jin. A Michael/Sun baby storyline does not even make sense to me as far as being a storyline…what is the purpose? To show that Sun is truly an evil b*tch? I mean I know that Pandora’s lid is broken so it is possible, but for me that would continue the downward slide.

    Charlotte being Annie? Um, wasn’t Ben in love, pupply love, crushing on Annie? Why would he try to shoot her? Why wouldn’t he remember her? To me she could possibly be his child if you want to connect those dots, but I’m thinking it will be another related, yet unrelated to the big storyline of the whole thing…like Charlie having to die for Desmond’s “vision.” Or Sawyer “choosing” to stay, when he actually chose to sacrifice himself.

    I think Frank Lapidus will die in the next season, as he will be an expendable person “in-the-know.”

    Sorry for the long post, but I’ve got a lot of work to do today so I couldn’t break it up.

  305. approaching infinity says:

    Did anyone watch the two lost alternate endings on good morning america? Is there anywhere I can watch this online?

  306. AnneK says:

    [quote comment="228037"]

    Could any one make out what was said on the phone that woke Kate up for her Claire apparition? What is whispers? It sounded more like some one (Sawyer’s voice?) actually saying something just low and creepy.[/quote]

    According to lostpedia: During her flash-forward dream sequence, Kate receives a garbled phone call. When played backwards, the message states: “The Island needs you. You have to go back before it’s too late.”

  307. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228185"][quote comment="228108"]And yet ANOTHER puzzler – Locke was told to move the island as a way of escaping the threat of Keamy and his crew. Once those guys were all killed, and the ship had blown up, and almost everyone that Widmore hired (except Mile, Charlotte, Frank and Daniel) had died, the threat was eliminated, no? Widmore himself didn’t know where the island was, and without all those people on the ship, he wouldn’t be able to find it. So it seems like it wouldn’t have been necessary to move the island?[/quote]

    *****

    I initially thought the same thing. Then I realized that the purpose of moving the island was to get it out of the reach of Widmore, because he had found it. And I think he found it by using the Black Rock journal as well as beating up one of Ben’s operative’s for info. And of course any prior knowledge he may have had.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    That could be. I was thinking that Widmore himself had no idea exactly where the island was. But he must have had at least a general idea, and if that was the case, he hired the freighter crew to just camp out and wait for it to appear somehow, so he could do that again in the future.

    (BTW, nice to see you back here, skweez)

  308. ninny says:

    Regarding the metal stuff put in the little room that blew a hole in the wall – maybe it has to be done this way now since the swan? was imploded with the failsafe key.
    It may have needed a magnetic pull or push to get to the hole of the donkey wheel.
    Maybe

    By the time Sun comes to see Widmore, Ben will have already been to see Widmore right?

  309. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="227789"][quote comment="227770"]Anyone run that phone call to Kate backwards yet?[/quote]

    LOL not yet, is that even possible??[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Anything is possible!

    Here’s the link: http://getlostpodcast.com/2008/05/29/lost-episode-4×13–quottheres-no-place-like-homequot-easter-eggs-screencaps-audio.aspx

  310. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228198"]Did anyone watch the two lost alternate endings on good morning america? Is there anywhere I can watch this online?[/quote]
    Yup – here you go:

    http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2008/05/season-finale-2-alternate-endings.html

  311. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228198"]Did anyone watch the two lost alternate endings on good morning america? Is there anywhere I can watch this online?[/quote]

    They have it posted on the home page of this site now:

    http://www.lostblog.net/

    : ) P

  312. spiralturtle says:

    [quote comment="228173"][quote comment="228125"]Ben said that whoever moves the island cannot come back…maybe Charles Widmore had the island, moved it, and could not come back but has been trying to for some time…when he and Ben talk about it, it sounds like Ben took the island from him.

    Another thought…maybe Charlotte is another Widmore daughter who was born on the island when Charles was there…Charlotte is kind of a feminine form of Charles…![/quote]

    I agree with the Widmore having been to the island and been the one to move it before.
    But what about Charlotte being Ben’s real daughter with Annie. She would be about the right age, Maybe Annie moved the island before and was preggers at the time and had baby off island.[/quote]

    ***

    But Charlotte said she was born on the island when she was talking to Miles. That part blew me away.

  313. Rita says:

    MOST people who have died have had a nice corpse to prove it, with the exception of Patchy. We saw Charlie floating dead (I’m sorry PJ!), Nicki and Paolo were buried, Ecko and Boone had dead bodies, Naomi, Danielle, Alex, Alex’s boyfriend (whose name escapes me at the moment), Arzt, etc. We never actually SEE a DEAD Claire, yet she is most likely dead all the same. Michael is “released” by the island to be dead now. Jin was NOT seen floating dead, flying through the air, or burning up in the explosion. Therefore, I think he IS FOR SURE alive SOMEWHERE. No way they kill off a major character and just move on without closure. He’s not dead IMHO.

  314. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228211"]Charlotte said she was born on the island when she was talking to Miles. That part blew me away.[/quote]

    DID she say that? I thought she said she was searching for the place she was born. I think it was IMPLIED, but I don’t remember her actually saying it. Lostpedia doesn’t have the transcript up yet, so we can’t check there. You may well be right, I just don’t remember it that way.

    : ) P

  315. spiralturtle says:

    [quote comment="228114"]RE: comment 250, Pam’s “Sun Theory”:

    I agree with a lot of what you wrote, that Sun may very well be playing Widmore and looking to exact revenge. However, I disagree that she is a “new woman”. She’s always been portrayed as manipulative and less than innocent. For example: planning to leave Jin and secretly run away with Jae to the US; using her father’s name to threaten Jin’s real mother; as a little girl, she let the maid take the blame for “The Glass Ballerina” breaking.[/quote]
    *****

    Spot on, ToeKnee. I totally agree with you there.

    I disagree with those who believe Ji Yeon is Michael’s. For one thing, we SAW the baby, and she’s all Korean. There would be some element of darker skin there. It’s incredibly rare for a mixed-race baby to show only the racial characteristics of one of its parents.

  316. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="227827"][quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
    Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
    Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
    ****************************
    The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]

    —————————–

    I disagree about the reason he was smiling – I think the big smile was to hide the fact that he didn’t think the nitrogen thing was going to work and that the bomb was going to blow up with his friend Sun and her unborn child on the boat. There was that moment where he looked scared out of his mind, and then the big smile. He was trying to make Sun feel better. No way they hooked up, no way it’s his baby.

  317. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="227790"]
    When Jack said goodbye to Desmond, he said something like, “Don’t let him/them find you”. He may have been talking about Widmore. Remember too that Sun said to Widmore something like “You know we weren’t the only ones to get off the island.” So perhaps Widmore knows Desmond is still alive and is off the island, and Widmore trying to track down Desmond will be a plotline next season.[/quote]
    I think Penny and Desmond are hiding from Widmore. Widmore is trying to find them and Sun knows this.

    [quote comment="228058"]Jin is either dead or on some random island in the middle of nowhere with natives.. therefore probably dead

    He may have been able to jump off ship easily because they panned out with the camera and didn’t show us much.. but he would then be stuck in the water.. since lapidus said there was only ocean in each direction.. and he couldnt swim back to the island prior to it being moved because even the helicopter couldnt make it back in time

    and since indonesia is 3000 miles and one week away.. hes stuck in no mans land.. unless the producers come up with some whacked out crazy angle to bring him back to life for a season 6 reunion with his desperate asian housewife[/quote]
    I agree. If he somehow manages to swim to the island before it takes off (in super-speed time), I will have a hard time buying that. He is dead- though he might still appear aka Christian, Charlie, etc.

    [quote comment="228191"]
    I was so creeped out when Christian Shephard appeared to Michael and told him he could go now. I interpreted that as him telling Michael that he could die now. But I don’t understand what the island’s purpose would be for him blowing up the freigther.[/quote]
    The freighter blowing up was just a casualty. The purpose of Michael being there had been fullfilled. Locke has become the Leader, and Ben has left the island. That is a HUGE change in terms of how the island is run.

  318. Miraks says:

    I really do not believe that Charlotte is Annie. She is way too young to be Annie. Plus I really don’t think Ben would shoot Annie as he shot Charlotte.
    Ben came to the island sometime in the early 70s. At that time he was about 10 years old. Annie looked a year or two younger. Charlotte was born in 1979. So she could be a teenage Annie’s daughter, but that would mean that Annie would have left the island thirteen years before the purge and hidden the pregnancy (and herself) from Ben. SOmething is just not making sense.

  319. wally p says:

    [quote comment="228202"]Regarding the metal stuff put in the little room that blew a hole in the wall – maybe it has to be done this way now since the swan? was imploded with the failsafe key.
    It may have needed a magnetic pull or push to get to the hole of the donkey wheel.
    Maybe

    [/quote]

    Looked to me like the Orchid was built over the donkey wheel. The idea was to run the orchid off of the intense power of the ancient donkey wheel device. I dont think that anything is supposed to blow a hole in the wall, but Ben knows it will work, and that he can get down to the original structure.

    This was a very cool scene.. I want to know more about the pre-Dharma history of this island. And being that I think some people are eternal, due to island powers (Richard) i hope we can get some flashbacks in s5 s6 to the original inhabitants, who would have constructed that donkey wheel and that four toed statue…

  320. Slugdoc says:

    Richard is not eternal. He just time travels all over the place. See above. (at least in theory).

    Still unresolved –? The food drops. were they still continuing? HOw did they know where the island was. How will they get food now? There was no indication that the island was self-sustaining agriculturally or that they imported other outside foodstuffs.
    (There were some chickens and pigs, but Locke cooked the last one just a few days after moving to the barracks. Clearly not a big livestock population.

  321. lola says:

    [quote comment="227651"]Did anyone notice that in the interview of the oceanic 6, Jack states there were 8 of them…then they ask what happened to the other 3…then gives out the three names.
    Then a lady asks another question about the six of them. That makes no sense at all. Mind Games…LOL

    Oh crud. Is this supposed to go in last week’s comments??[/quote]
    yeah but if aaron wasn’t born yet-taht makes 5 +3+ 8

  322. Lins says:

    Ok, here’s my wish list:

    1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
    2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
    3. Why did Locke die?
    4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
    5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
    6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
    7. Where is Vincent!!

    Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!!

  323. LOST24 says:

    [quote comment="227690"]BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?[/quote]

    Michael can not kill himself. But he could die by the explosion. I’d say he’s toast. And yes, Jin’s a goner.

  324. Michelle says:

    “[quote comment="228240"]Ok, here’s my wish list:

    1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
    2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
    3. Why did Locke die?
    4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
    5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
    6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
    7. Where is Vincent!!

    Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!![/quote]

    5 — Remember in the flash forward Kate was doing something for Sawyer – something possibly involving money and his daughter? When he whispered in her ear – he was telling her what he wanted her to do for him once she got home.

  325. lost_fan_107 says:

    wish #8 – find out what happens romanticaly with juliette & sawyer, they looked cozy sitting on the beach watching the sea drinking dharma rum,.

  326. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="228240"]Ok, here’s my wish list:

    1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
    2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
    3. Why did Locke die?
    4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
    5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
    6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
    7. Where is Vincent!!

    Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!![/quote]
    4- I don’t think Walt thinks his dad is alive. He knows his dad was there, but I didn’t hear anything to indicate he thought that Michael was alive.

  327. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
    *********************
    I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”

  328. Tim says:

    [quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Claire.

  329. Lins says:

    [quote comment="228253"]
    4- I don’t think Walt thinks his dad is alive. He knows his dad was there, but I didn’t hear anything to indicate he thought that Michael was alive.[/quote]

    *******************
    When he came to visit Hurley…he said that Locke (Bentham) came to visit him and asked Hurley why the O6 were lying and when Hurley said to protect the people that remained on the island, Walt said, “like my dad?”…could just be an innocent comment, but have to wonder if Locke said anything to sway him…?

  330. Sheppard says:

    [quote comment="228183"]So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?[/quote]

    —-

    They were looking for the economist. If Sun was the economist they would not have to locate her. They know where Sun is.

  331. Tim says:

    [quote comment="227994"][quote comment="227910"][quote comment="227871"][
    I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]

    The thing is, even if they COULD have disarmed the bomb in any way, they had to KNOW how to do it. They were TRYING to figure it out, but none of them had enough expertise to disarm the bomb in the time they had.

    : ) P[/quote]

    If spraying the battery and freezing it to make it inert would stop the explosion from happening until the freezing wore off, wouldn’t removing the cables from the battery have the same effect as keeping the battery permanently frozen, which they would have done if there was more chemicals.

  332. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="228256"][quote comment="228253"]
    4- I don’t think Walt thinks his dad is alive. He knows his dad was there, but I didn’t hear anything to indicate he thought that Michael was alive.[/quote]

    *******************
    When he came to visit Hurley…he said that Locke (Bentham) came to visit him and asked Hurley why the O6 were lying and when Hurley said to protect the people that remained on the island, Walt said, “like my dad?”…could just be an innocent comment, but have to wonder if Locke said anything to sway him…?[/quote]
    ______________________

    I took that to mean that they were lying the same way his dad had lied about what had happened to them when they got back from the island. His dad had lied (something we saw earlier Walt had been very upset about) in order to protect his son. The O6 are lying now to protect people on the island.
    I saw it more as Walt being older having a better understanding of why his dad had lied, especially seeing that the O6 (many of whom he respects) are doing the same now.

  333. Sheppard says:

    [quote comment="228240"]Ok, here’s my wish list:

    1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
    2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
    3. Why did Locke die?
    4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
    5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
    6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
    7. Where is Vincent!!

    Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!![/quote]

    —-

    8. How does Ben get off the island?
    9. Who is left on the beach beside Julia, Sawyer, Miles and Charlotte?
    10. How many toes does Richard Alpert have?

  334. Sheppard says:

    [quote comment="228254"][quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
    *********************
    I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”[/quote]
    *********
    He could have at least tried. Better than doing nothing.

  335. MJH says:

    My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?

    Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.

  336. Sheppard says:

    [quote comment="228254"][quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
    *********************
    I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”[/quote]

    ******

    And how would the signal get from the room at the bottom of the elevator to 5 miles off island. That is one powerful transmitter.

  337. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment="228111"][quote comment="228106"]2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]

    2) I wonder if they were to try to take Keamy’s arm thingy off, it would immediately detect no pulse, and that would set off the explosives.[/quote]

    This was my question the whole evening as well. Why couldn’t someone else have tried that super-dee-duper arm bracelet/bomb detinator thingy on for size??

  338. LostGrrl says:

    Forgive the ignorance (if it is), but have we heard the name “Jeremy Bentham” on the show before this episode?

  339. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="228135"][quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…

    I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]

    In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——————————-
    But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.

  340. Toeknee says:

    Here’s what one of the “experts” at Popular Mechanics says about the explosives:

    “First things first: the explosives. We blow a lot of things up on MythBusters, so I know from experience that last night Lost missed the mark. The 500 pounds of C4, that whole movie thing about “dummy triggers” and fake tripwires—it’s all a load of crap. Nobody does that. At least that’s what my friends at the FBI tell me. Would you want to set up explosives so that pretty much anything you did would make them go off? It’s just like guessing and cutting one of the wires in the movies: Nobody would survive using that technique for very long, including Keamy and his crew. The whole training of a bomb tech is to work safely with explosives, not dangerously. There are too many ways to mess it up. Also, I’m pretty sure that C4 isn’t conductive, which it would need to be to set up its wiring as a resistance feedback loop that could tell if you started to pull out the detonators. And if freezing the battery works, why not just disconnect it? Oh, right, the monitored feedback loop. But wait, C4 isn’t conductive … never mind.”

    Here’s the link: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/robotics/4266333.html

  341. wally p says:

    [quote comment="228252"]wish #8 – find out what happens romanticaly with juliette & sawyer, they looked cozy sitting on the beach watching the sea drinking dharma rum,.[/quote]

    Juliet. I saw her looking flirty with Daniel Faraday last night too. What a tramp.

  342. Miraks says:

    I kind of thought that the lie was made up by all of the O6- with maybe Jack pushing for it. He just said they needed to lie. The lie was made up with the help of Penny (on her boat), who would have known that her dad wouldn’t be happy about the O6.

  343. Trixanna says:

    Is it possible that Ben had Sayid kill Locke? If Locke is dead and Ben could manipulate the O6 to return, he could possibly return to power. Okay, I KNOW anything is possible at this point but is it plausible? When Sayid told Hurley that “they said it was suicide”, I just had the feeling that Sayid had done the killing.

    Who was the man sitting outside Hurley’s mental hospital?

  344. Sheppard says:

    Sun told Widmore that the O6 were not the only ones who left the island. I assume she was talking about Desmond and the pilot. Why would Widmore care about those two leaving the island. Are Penny and Desmond hiding from Penny’s dad?

  345. Tim says:

    [quote comment="228168"]Another thing about Yi Jeon being Michaels….If this were true, and Michael fathered Sun’s baby, there would be no way that Sun’s family would forgive her for not only having an affair, but having a baby with a black man. So that little small talk between daddy Paik and Sun would’nt happen because she would easily be disowned by her family. Trust me, im an asian man who dates a black woman, i know about these things!![/quote]

    The baby hasn’t been born yet.

  346. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="227843"]
    I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
    When was that scene? That wasn’t much of a confirmation IMO. I have read that a lot of people are speculating that Ji-Yeon MAY be Michael’s. I don’t agree, in no way was it confirmed.[quote comment="227827"] Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]

    Sun has always been that way. When she was little she broke a statue( I think) and lied to her father about. She had an affair. She spoke english and didn’t tell her husband.

    I’m only up to #200. I just felt the need to comment on this issue. Be back fo more.

  347. Tim says:

    [quote comment="228191"]I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.

    Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward….[/quote]

    It was time traveling because he had the same arm wound that he got when falling down the ladder.

  348. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228265"][quote comment="228254"][quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
    *********************
    I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”[/quote]

    ******

    And how would the signal get from the room at the bottom of the elevator to 5 miles off island. That is one powerful transmitter.[/quote]
    ************************
    Ahhhhhh! A most excellent point!

  349. wally p says:

    I am a little confused as to why Hurley sometimes says he wants to go back, and sometimes he doesn’t. Like last night, he says to Sayid “we’re not going to go back are we?” like he didn’t want to. and Sayid says “no, just somewhere safe.”

    I wonder if some whiperers give good advice and some give evil advice? Maybe?

  350. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    I may be completely wrong on this, but I am going to rewatch the episode tonight….. when Locke met up with The Others at the end of the episode, did they show the sky changing colors and the load noise? If not – could this possibly be a flash forward to when Locke returns to the island after he dies off the island, and that is why Alpert said, “Welcome home”? That’s probably way off, but just throwing the thought out there :-)

  351. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228270"][quote comment="228135"][quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…

    I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]

    In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——————————-
    But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]
    ****************************
    Well, they spent a week on Penny’s boat tweaking and planning their story. Penny’s money is no doubt helping them cover up the truth.

  352. jaime says:

    Yea…My Turn

    1. Any significance with the flower Antheriums?

    2.Hurley did not seem “crazy” at all when speaking to Walt

    3.The Orchid was built 20 years ago

    4.How did Miles know that Charlotte had been to the island before? I love the way he said “How DO I know? hmmmm

    5.Favorite line: Sawyer calling Frank Kenny Rogers…so funny i laughed out loud

    6.What would make Juliet stay on the island? Who was left for her to get off?

    7.I believe Jin jumped and got on the zodiac with Daniel. Since the Hydra island dissapeared as well i am believing that the raft went with them as well. They will show up next season.

    8.Oct. 24th 2005 is when Ben ended up in Tunisia. That is 10 months from when the island moved. Are we to think that the island rematerialized 10 months into the future like Ben?

    9.Was the donkey wheel deliberately frozen to keep the island in check similar to what Michael did witht eh freighter bomb?

    10. Does the island get all its power from the substance within the donkey wheel?

    11.C.S. Lewis wrote a book called “Miracles” It is very similar to the conversation Jack and Locke at the Orchid about the possibilities of miracles.

    12. Was there a videocamera in the corner of the room where the bomb was? I would like a screen cap if anyone can find one. After Michael heard the wispers he looked to the left (videocamera) and then to the right and saw CS

    13. The phone call Kate received with the wispers said “the island needs you, you have to go back before it’s too late”

    These are off the top of my head reading through all of your comments. Please enlighten me with answers if you have them. Thank you

  353. Pam says:

    [quote comment="228114"]RE: comment 250, Pam’s “Sun Theory”:

    I agree with a lot of what you wrote, that Sun may very well be playing Widmore and looking to exact revenge. However, I disagree that she is a “new woman”. She’s always been portrayed as manipulative and less than innocent. For example: planning to leave Jin and secretly run away with Jae to the US; using her father’s name to threaten Jin’s real mother; as a little girl, she let the maid take the blame for “The Glass Ballerina” breaking.[/quote]

    Good insight. I think now that she’s a widow and on her own she can use her manipulative side in the light of day. She is who she is now.

  354. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    [quote comment="228290"][quote comment="228191"]I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.

    Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward….[/quote]

    It was time traveling because he had the same arm wound that he got when falling down the ladder.[/quote]

    *****
    Sorry, I meant he wasn’t time travelling in that particular episode when Alex died (I don’t remember the name of the episode – but it was the one where Keamy and his guys came and blew up half of New Otherton). It seemed at the time that Ben was time travelling, but in that episode it was actually a flash forward.

  355. wally p says:

    [quote comment="228290"][quote comment="228191"]I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.

    Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward….[/quote]

    It was time traveling because he had the same arm wound that he got when falling down the ladder.[/quote]

    Ben is still a bad guy, no? I don’t think he’s a good guy, anyway.
    I think that Ben really is not ever getting back on the island, just like Whitmore… thats why he now needs people to get back on the island for him. Why he wakes up in the desert is beyond me, but I think that the island was already located there at one point, someone said that Charlotte had been checking it out previously. Perhaps there are a few certain locations on the wheel, you spin the wheel and see which one you end up at.

  356. Pam says:

    [quote comment="228152"][quote comment="228038"]Wow maybe I shouldn’t think about Lost this late at night. intolost, you summarized my Sun ramblings in two words, “Femme Fatale”.

    Okay here are my thoughts about Locke, pay no heed:

    Locke and the Island

    John’s motto, if you want to look at it that way, is, “This Island has a purpose”. Some people ask, if the Island has a purpose for Locke, why did he die? Locke didn’t die on the Island did he? What if Locke fullfilled his purpose, and when he returned “home” to talk the O6 into returning because the Island has a purpose for them NOW. So maybe Locke reached Island-induced enlightenment and died peacfully.[/quote]

    —-

    So I guess Ben would already have this ‘Island-induced enlightenment’.

    He doesn’t seem to be very enlightened to me. LOL[/quote]

    Maybe you don’t need to be enlightened for the Island to use you. Maybe Ben should have stayed on the Island.

    I agree, Ben is no Buddah. But that’s what I like about him; he’s trying to survive the best way he knows and if he doesn’t do what the Island wants, he’d throw everybody in front of the cart and risk a lot if he can get what he wants.

  357. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    I just thought of something! Maybe everything that was within a certain radius of the island disappeared with the island. I’m not sure how many miles out it was, but you ha ve to go to and from the island at a certain bearing. If this is true and the freighter was withing that radius, perhaps Jin jumped or was blown off the boat and was either rescued by Daniel’s raft or not, but moved with the island. The reason the helicopter didn’t vanish as well – maybe because it was in the air?

  358. LOST24 says:

    [quote comment="227829"]that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…[/quote]

    But that was the first time Sayid was on the ropes. He was choking until Alpert came along and saved him. Still, the Sayid in the future is a badass.

  359. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228101"][quote comment="227974"]Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.

    You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
    He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
    Let’s say in real time 2004 he is say 38 years old. (and wears eyeliner). He realizes that the island will need aomone to save it so he goes back in time and recruits Ben. Zoom! Back to 2004. Ben can’t do it all. Alpert zooms back to recruit Locke. Locke’s not ready? Zoom to another time point and try again! OK now go and get Juliet.
    All of it is happening at or close to the same time so of course Alpert doesn’t look much different! It is the same 2004 (or whatever time) Alpert in each scene!

    Whew. Got that?
    [/quote]
    That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.

  360. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228300"]I just thought of something! Maybe everything that was within a certain radius of the island disappeared with the island. I’m not sure how many miles out it was, but you ha ve to go to and from the island at a certain bearing. If this is true and the freighter was withing that radius, perhaps Jin jumped or was blown off the boat and was either rescued by Daniel’s raft or not, but moved with the island. The reason the helicopter didn’t vanish as well – maybe because it was in the air?[/quote]
    Beat me to it! That’s exactly what I think, whatever was in the snow globe went to the new “location”.

  361. JCK says:

    I was reminded of this last night – this goes back a couple episodes, but I don’t remember anyone discussing it…

    Does anyone know how Faraday had prior knowledge of the Orchid’s existence in his notebook? When he said that they have to get off the island, he knew what the Orchid could do…how?

    We already suspect he’s a time traveler (with Des as his constant) but does that mean he’s been to the island before?

  362. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228183"]So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?[/quote]
    Yepper Lins you might be onto something. But me thinks that since Locke can go back dead, so can Sun. Maybe dead or alive is acceptable (whisperers).

  363. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228306"]I was reminded of this last night – this goes back a couple episodes, but I don’t remember anyone discussing it…

    Does anyone know how Faraday had prior knowledge of the Orchid’s existence in his notebook? When he said that they have to get off the island, he knew what the Orchid could do…how?

    We already suspect he’s a time traveler (with Des as his constant) but does that mean he’s been to the island before?[/quote]
    I think so, and we’ll find out next season about all three of them (Char, Miles, Dan).

  364. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228193"]****Whoop-Whoop-whoop!****…****Whoop-whoop-whoop***

    YELLOW ALERT…YELLOW ALERT. I would be derelict in my duty if I did not at least warn folks about the strength of the Potential Jumping of the Shark by our beloved show Lost.

    Yes a lot happened, some felt rushed imho, and yes questions answered, questions raised, but if the show begins to get even more extra nutty, I’m going to point to this episode as the JTS.

    Why? Well for me the O6 seeing the island disappear, is too incredible of an event for them to be so nonchalant in accepting Jack’s plan to lie about their whereabouts.

    [/quote]
    I totally disagree, this was the best two hours of TV I’ve seen.

    The reason they accept the island disappearing is because they have just gone through 3 months of outrageous dream like events. If I were in that chopper I would have said, “No one will believe this shit, what’s the lie we need again?”

  365. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228262"]
    8. How does Ben get off the island?
    [/quote]
    I thought that was pretty apparent. By turning the wheel and moving the island he was transported to the Sahara Desert in Oct 2005.

  366. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="228270"]
    But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]

    Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.

    : ) P

  367. frank says:

    First off, phenomenol episodes. I was riveted.

    Highlights:
    1) Desmond and Penny re-uniting (I hope they keep both characters heavily involved in the story – they would contribute so much, so many dimensions)
    2) Sayid-Keamy scrum – awesome fight scene
    3) Ben and John’s exchanges in the Orchid
    4) Kate’s “dream” about Claire

    Lowlights:
    1) Sun’s wailing about Jin (like he was going to hear her as the freighter was exploding and the helo was like 100 feet above
    2) Sawyer/Kate kiss – what was the point again?

    New questions raised:
    1) what did Alpert mean when he said to John, welcome home?
    2) why does Miles want to stay?
    3) To whom was Ben talking when he said: “Are you happy now, Jacob?”

    I’ve read all these comments and a couple questions I have that I haven’t yet seen:
    1) Why was Kate apologizing to Aaron so much? 2) what is the connection between John and Jack? I know about the Man of Reason/Man of Faith dichotomy, but there has to be more to it. there has to be some other relationship between these 2. John said at the Orchid that he needed Jack to stay.

    Anyway, great episodes – great comments.

  368. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?

    Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
    I think you are onto something for sure.

  369. LOST24 says:

    [quote comment="227919"]yall r making too much of the bomb….if the island didnt want the bomb to go off it would not have…but jacob showed up and the bomb exploded, so yes the island blew up the freighter cause it does not want anyone to leave….[/quote]

    Of course you also need to take into account Ben knew the boat would explode if Keamy died and he still killed him. IMO Ben is responsible for the whole thing.

  370. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228139"]

    well, at least now we know why christian’s funeral was 10 months later….and why aaron didn’t seem older…because the island moved IN TIME. it was october 2005 when ben woke up in the desert, and since we know he just hurt his arm in the orchid, i think his desert traveling is just around the corner.
    [/quote]
    I think they were still rescued in the “real world” timeline in January of ’05.

  371. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228334"]New questions raised:
    2) why does Miles want to stay?

    *snip*

    I’ve read all these comments and a couple questions I have that I haven’t yet seen:
    1) Why was Kate apologizing to Aaron so much?[/quote]

    I think Miles wants to stay because he is curious. I think that is why he agreed to go in the first place. He is a scientist and he wants to know MORE.

    I think Kate was apologizing because her dream of Claire was a “wake-up call” and she realizes maybe they should have stayed. I believe that will be the beginning of KATE’s downward spiral which will eventually lead to her standing at the end of a runway, in the middle of the night, doped up on pills and screaming, “We have to go BACK!”

    LOL

    : ) P

  372. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228283"]
    Who was the man sitting outside Hurley’s mental hospital?[/quote]
    He must have been working for Widmore. Did you notice when Sayid asked him the time, I think he was gonna reply 8:15.

  373. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
    I got the impression he was trying to protect themselves as well. He knew that whoever planted the fake wreckage would have the resources to find and hunt them down. I think that is why they went all the way to Membata to be rescued. Maybe so they could actually claim, if Widmore ever came knocking, “what island”? Until Sun ruined it for them.

  374. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228358"]
    I think Kate was apologizing because her dream of Claire was a “wake-up call” and she realizes maybe they should have stayed. I believe that will be the beginning of KATE’s downward spiral which will eventually lead to her standing at the end of a runway, in the middle of the night, doped up on pills and screaming, “We have to go BACK!”

    LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    You really might be on to something. The island hasn’t come calling to them all at the same time. Hurley saw the numbers after returning to the island. Jack didn’t see CS until about 2 years after the rescue. Maybe the island is just starting to call Kate.

  375. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228352"] IMO Ben is responsible for the whole thing.[/quote]
    That’s why Michael couldn’t die UNTIL Ben killed Keamy. The island needed Ben to be responsible for the death of “innocent people” as Locke said. Up until that time, Michael did not serve the island’s purpose. He may have served Ben’s purpose but not the Island’s.

  376. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?

    Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
    I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
    ————-
    I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”

  377. Hammer says:

    Rewatching the freighter explode, I don’t see how Jin could have survived. There isn’t any hint of him jumping and the O6 are looking right at the boat, they would have seen him jump.

  378. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228389"][quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?

    Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
    I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
    ————-
    I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Yep, yep.

  379. Hammer says:

    Oh forgive me if I missed someone mentioning this…

    The video got stuck on rewind so we wouldn’t know exactly what happens in the white room. Then Ben ruins it. What up with that? Is the white room destroyed? Why destroy it and NOT tell us what really happens?

  380. LOST24 says:

    But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.

    Remember, Ben always has a plan!

  381. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228352"][quote comment="227919"]yall r making too much of the bomb….if the island didnt want the bomb to go off it would not have…but jacob showed up and the bomb exploded, so yes the island blew up the freighter cause it does not want anyone to leave….[/quote]

    Of course you also need to take into account Ben knew the boat would explode if Keamy died and he still killed him. IMO Ben is responsible for the whole thing.[/quote]
    *****************************
    Keamy called Ben’s bluff (and killed Alex), and now Ben has called Keamy’s bluff (and let the boat blow up). Both thought the other would NEVER do it.

  382. LOST24 says:

    [quote comment="228129"]Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:

    “That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”[/quote]

    That’s a pretty cool thought.

  383. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228403"]But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.

    Remember, Ben always has a plan![/quote]
    ****************************
    Ben is still absolutely committed to the island. He knew as soon as Locke told him Jacob wanted the island moved, just what it would cost him, and he did it without hesitating. Even now, he shows up at Locke/Bentham’s funeral home (still think he may be dead) still trying to protect the island and do its bidding. He is NOT a bitter man who was thrown out by the island. He is a devoted follower who is doing what needs to be done, whatever the personal cost to him, absolutely committed.

  384. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228400"]Oh forgive me if I missed someone mentioning this…

    The video got stuck on rewind so we wouldn’t know exactly what happens in the white room. Then Ben ruins it. What up with that? Is the white room destroyed? Why destroy it and NOT tell us what really happens?[/quote]
    I don’t think it was completely destroyed. I think that was the only way Ben could get to the Wheel of Fortune. He used it as his own C4 to get thorugh the wall. If only he knew how much was on the freighter he could have asked Keamy for a favor before taking out his jugular. Does that wand give Ben “James Bond” like skills or what?

  385. Hammer says:

    Another random thought. I had mentioned that I think the others are dead and whisperers that show themselves. I don’t think that they are all natives of the island as a race. The scene when Locke walks up on them they are made up of several races.

  386. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="228024"]Can someone please enlighten me on the following:

    Why did the island choose to ‘release’ Michael at this particular moment and not before? How did that serve a greater purpose because it didn’t seem like he sacrificed his life to save anyone because everyone on the freighter except Sun and Desmond died anyway? Him freezing the battery may have bought them some time but, again, it only saveed Sun and Desmond.[/quote]

    Sun and Desmond = Libby and Analucia. He killed two, he saved two.

  387. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="228285"]Sun told Widmore that the O6 were not the only ones who left the island.

    I assume she was talking about Desmond and the pilot. Why would Widmore care about those two leaving the island.

    Are Penny and Desmond hiding from Penny’s dad?[/quote]

    I think Widmore is hiding them from Ben. Widmore is still hunting Ben, who Sun blames for Jin’s (alleged) death. I think she is referring to Ben when she says they both know that others got off.

  388. Seajam says:

    Hands up – who believes everything Ben says?
    Can the person that moves the island never realy return?
    Can Ben really help Jack get back to the island?
    Did Ben really have a plan as he gave himself up and did that plan include the knowledge that he would be rescued in the immediate future?

  389. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228431"]
    Widmore is still hunting Ben, who Sun blames for Jin’s (alleged) death. [/quote]
    I thought it wa pretty clear that the other person Sun blamed was Jack not Widmore.

  390. lovelovelost says:

    Thoughts from a first-time poster:

    1. I think that Jin is still alive. Writers love to make it look like major characters are dead so that they can bring them back in surprising ways. I think that Sun believes that Jin could still be alive, and for that reason she is trying to find the Island. Since Widmore already found the Island once, she goes to him for assistance (“we have common interests”.) Even though she knows he’s evil, she could be so blinded by her love for Jin that she is willing to work with him anyway. Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father. He already feels a lot of guilt for betraying his friends; if it was his baby, he’d feel guilty and confused, not elated. He is happy for Jin and Sun because they were friends.

    2. Charlotte is too young to be Annie, but she could be Annie’s daughter. Maybe Annie grows up on the Island, falls in love, and has a daughter. Ben would be jealous, but would still love her. Maybe he allowed Annie and her daughter (Charlotte) to escape before the purge. (This would make a cool FB episode for Ben.) (Although I still think this is a long shot; I think the writers will come up with a unique story for Charlotte.)

    And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. I think that John will turn out to be a flawed leader too, and I agree with the people who say that John probably came back because he had to move the Island.

    3. I think that Ben might have a sinister motive in trying to get people back to the Island. If Jack was supposed to stay on the Island, Ben would have known (he always knows.) So why did he encourage Jack to leave right during that scene with Locke at the Orchid Station? Maybe bringing Jack and the others back is a way for him to be allowed back on the Island? The writers have been making Ben seem like a possible good guy for a while know, so I think there has to be a surprise twist coming . . .

  391. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228403"]But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.

    Remember, Ben always has a plan![/quote]
    He’s also got “a few ideas” for Jack on how to return to the island. Did Ben visit Kate and that’s how he found out Jack has Been flying again?

  392. jaime says:

    [quote comment="228302"][quote comment=”228101[/quote]
    That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.[/quote]

    I absolutely agree with your thought of Alpert being dead. I thought that the minute we heard the whispers and he emerged from the jungle. If you go back to the whisper transcripts you will find his name once or twice. A womens voice says “Richard”

  393. jaime says:

    So Ben allows Keamy to die which he knew would blow up the freighter not caring if he killed innocent people. This is the same reason he gave Michael why he shouldn’t blow it to begin with. Is this because for that breif moment he had a laspse in judgment and was fuled by revenge?

  394. Tim says:

    Charlotte was conceived on the island but her mother had to leave the island to give birth so they wouldn’t die. That is why Charlotte’s words were so carefully chosen.

  395. JHC says:

    So, I may be slow, but WHY do the O6 have to lie? I’ve heard “to protect themselves”, “to protect those still on the island”, “to protect the island itself”. OK, but protect X from what? Please help me understand what would likely happen if the 06 walked off the plane, into the press conference, and told the complete “truth” as they understood it. What happens that is so bad?

  396. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228439"] Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father.

    And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. [/quote]
    I do agree about the “Michael not being the father” theory. But what if he was. Walt would have half-sister, born in a different country, that he is unaware of….Sound familiar.

    I have stated in previous threads that I find it odd that pregnant island women die around the same time as Ben’s mother did. Too much of a coincidence. So I could see under another island “leader” that babies were once concieved and born on the island.

  397. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228451"]So Ben allows Keamy to die which he knew would blow up the freighter not caring if he killed innocent people. This is the same reason he gave Michael why he shouldn’t blow it to begin with. Is this because for that breif moment he had a laspse in judgment and was fuled by revenge?[/quote]
    That and the “rules” changed, or at least the rules HE played by.

  398. jaime says:

    Here are the occupations listed on the intro video on octagonglobalrecruiting.com/

    Microbiologists
    Psychologists
    Parapsychologists
    Zoologists
    Physicists
    Mathematicians
    Botanical Researchers
    Engineers
    Builders
    Drivers
    Health Care Workers
    Communication Specialists
    Neuroscientists
    Janitors
    Engineers
    Biologists
    Astrophysicists
    Ex-Military
    Electricians
    Vets
    IVF Consultants
    Teachers
    Architects
    Ichthyologists
    Transport Mechanics
    Immunologists
    Nurses
    Illustrators
    Auditors
    Minibus Drivers
    Recycling Coordinators
    Aeronautical Engineers
    Horticulturalists
    Dentists

    Taking the first letter of each occupation starting from the bottom and going up, gives:

    DHARMA INITIATIVE….and then a bunch of jumbled letters. Can anyone decode the other letters?

    Also, they are looking for IVF consultants. Did DI know of the fertility problems on the island?

  399. jaime says:

    [quote comment="228468"][quote comment="228451"]So Ben allows Keamy to die which he knew would blow up the freighter not caring if he killed innocent people. This is the same reason he gave Michael why he shouldn’t blow it to begin with. Is this because for that breif moment he had a laspse in judgment and was fuled by revenge?[/quote]
    That and the “rules” changed, or at least the rules HE played by.[/quote]
    ####################
    Ah yes, i beleive you are right

  400. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="228270"]
    But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]

    Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——————-
    Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.

  401. Tim says:

    [quote comment="228459"][quote comment="228439"] Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father.

    And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. [/quote]
    I do agree about the “Michael not being the father” theory. But what if he was. Walt would have half-sister, born in a different country, that he is unaware of….Sound familiar.

    I have stated in previous threads that I find it odd that pregnant island women die around the same time as Ben’s mother did. Too much of a coincidence. So I could see under another island “leader” that babies were once concieved and born on the island.[/quote]

    In the case of Locke, prematurely.

  402. Lins says:

    So do you think when Ben shows up at Nadia’s funeral…was that just a few days after he moved the island? Makes his answer to Sayid’s question of “how did you get off the island?” sound pretty silly…if Sayid saw what had happened when the island was moved…why would he believe Ben’s “I used Des’s boat” story?

  403. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228478"][quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="228270"]
    But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]

    Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——————-
    Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.[/quote]
    ————-
    Boy would I have liked to have been on That boat for a week.

    Sun: “So Penny, what exactly does your father do again?”

    Penny: “He’s a wealthy industrialist, who despises the man I fell in love with. And how about your father?”

    Sun: “He is the CEO of Paik Heavy Industries who also despises the man I fell in love with. Do you have any money I can borrow?”

  404. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="228509"][quote comment="228478"][quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="228270"]
    But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]

    Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——————-
    Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.[/quote]
    ————-
    Boy would I have liked to have been on That boat for a week.

    Sun: “So Penny, what exactly does your father do again?”

    Penny: “He’s a wealthy industrialist, who despises the man I fell in love with. And how about your father?”

    Sun: “He is the CEO of Paik Heavy Industries who also despises the man I fell in love with. Do you have any money I can borrow?”[/quote]
    ————–
    LOL.

  405. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="228509"][quote comment="228478"][quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.

    This is now happening on LOST.

    I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="228270"]
    But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]

    Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——————-
    Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.[/quote]
    ————-
    Boy would I have liked to have been on That boat for a week.

    Sun: “So Penny, what exactly does your father do again?”

    Penny: “He’s a wealthy industrialist, who despises the man I fell in love with. And how about your father?”

    Sun: “He is the CEO of Paik Heavy Industries who also despises the man I fell in love with. Do you have any money I can borrow?”[/quote]
    ————————-
    LOL

  406. jaime says:

    [quote comment="228507"]So do you think when Ben shows up at Nadia’s funeral…was that just a few days after he moved the island? Makes his answer to Sayid’s question of “how did you get off the island?” sound pretty silly…if Sayid saw what had happened when the island was moved…why would he believe Ben’s “I used Des’s boat” story?[/quote]
    #########################
    From the day of rescue Day 108 to scene with Sayid and Ben in Tunisia 10 months had passed. Dec 2004-Oct 2005

  407. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228519"]
    From the day of rescue Day 108 to scene with Sayid and Ben in Tunisia 10 months had passed. Dec 2004-Oct 2005[/quote]
    Not for Ben. But Sayid wouldn’t know this. Just because he saw the island move doesn’t mean Sayid would know that he traveled to the future. It is puzzling why Sayid wouldn’t have asked him something like “Hey, where did the island go?” But as far as he knew Ben was still on it.

  408. LOST24 says:

    [quote comment="228183"]So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?[/quote]

    So when Sayid tells Hurley he’s taking him someplace safe, he’s referring to the island?

  409. Lins says:

    [quote comment="228519"][quote comment="228507"]So do you think when Ben shows up at Nadia’s funeral…was that just a few days after he moved the island? Makes his answer to Sayid’s question of “how did you get off the island?” sound pretty silly…if Sayid saw what had happened when the island was moved…why would he believe Ben’s “I used Des’s boat” story?[/quote]
    #########################
    From the day of rescue Day 108 to scene with Sayid and Ben in Tunisia 10 months had passed. Dec 2004-Oct 2005[/quote]

    *********************
    I understand that time had passed as far as Sayid was concerned…but still, after seeing the island disappear and assuming Ben was on it, even if it was 10 months prior, his answer of using Des’s boat just doesn’t make sense to me…obviously it was a lie, but Sayid was there looking into the ocean where the island used to be and there was nothing in sight…no boat or anything…these are the things that keep me up at night!! :)

  410. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="228255"][quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Claire.[/quote]
    ——————————

    Themselves. Remember, he mentioned the plane being planted on the bottom of the ocean? He knows (thinks) that if they come out talking about the island, they’ll all end up dead.

  411. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="228459"][quote comment="228439"] Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father.

    And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. [/quote]
    I do agree about the “Michael not being the father” theory. But what if he was. Walt would have half-sister, born in a different country, that he is unaware of….Sound familiar.

    I have stated in previous threads that I find it odd that pregnant island women die around the same time as Ben’s mother did. Too much of a coincidence. So I could see under another island “leader” that babies were once concieved and born on the island.[/quote]

    ————————————

    That’s an interesting point – but I just don’t see HOW Michael and Sun could’ve done the nasty in private. Maybe I’m just being unimaginative, I’m sure it could’ve happened – but I guess what I don’t buy is that they could’ve done it without it becoming part of the Lost narrative earlier.

  412. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="228389"][quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?

    Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
    I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
    ————-
    I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”[/quote]
    ——————————————

    My thought was that Locke was travelling freely between the island and civilization, just like Ben did (we think). Something went wrong – not sure if that’s because Charlotte’s still on the island and maybe the rest of the freighter tots who were in the zodiac on their way back to the freighter from the island when the one blew up and the othe moved, or if it’s the Others. But when it went wrong, Jacob told him that it’s because the 6 left and that he had to bring them back. So John left the island to convince them to come back and someone killed him while he was in LA. The same someone who’s stalking Hurley and following Sayid.

    I’m also not 100% sure that Christian is a “good guy” or isn’t working to his own motives. Something about the look on Claire’s face when she’s in the cabin seemed a little off. Also, there’s the conflict b/w John trying to get the 6 back to the island, Ben saying that’s what had to happen, and Claire telling Kate not to bring “him” back to the island (whether she means Aaron or Jack is kind of a moot point – although maybe she means Ben??).

  413. Freckles says:

    Far-fetched, but maybe Charlie Pace, Charles Widmore, and Charlotte Lewis are all somehow related. They all hail from England anyways…

    Glad to see that Sawyer is back to his funny nick-names. :)

  414. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="228358"][quote comment="228334"]New questions raised:
    2) why does Miles want to stay?

    *snip*

    I’ve read all these comments and a couple questions I have that I haven’t yet seen:
    1) Why was Kate apologizing to Aaron so much?[/quote]

    I think Miles wants to stay because he is curious. I think that is why he agreed to go in the first place. He is a scientist and he wants to know MORE.

    I think Kate was apologizing because her dream of Claire was a “wake-up call” and she realizes maybe they should have stayed. I believe that will be the beginning of KATE’s downward spiral which will eventually lead to her standing at the end of a runway, in the middle of the night, doped up on pills and screaming, “We have to go BACK!”

    LOL

    : ) P[/quote]

    ——————————-

    About Miles – maybe he wants to stay because of the abundance of dead people on the island. It probably feels more like home to him because everyone else can see the DP too.

  415. RGS says:

    [quote comment="228458"]So, I may be slow, but WHY do the O6 have to lie? I’ve heard “to protect themselves”, “to protect those still on the island”, “to protect the island itself”. OK, but protect X from what? Please help me understand what would likely happen if the 06 walked off the plane, into the press conference, and told the complete “truth” as they understood it. What happens that is so bad?[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    Moreover, how in the bloody hell are they protecting an island that can vanish into thin air at any point and time as far as they know. They know the island disappeared, so even if they told some semblance of the story…so what, no one can find it.

    Now that time travel has been introduced, despite what I thought was denied by D&C, I can now go back and believe the theory that they are/were in purgatory.

    They are also starting to abuse the dream sequence schtick.

  416. lost-on-mars says:

    Well I read all 379 comments after a riveting show. Some more mysteries and comments:

    Why did the video start rewinding when Locke was watching the rabbit time travel sequence?

    I believe that sawyer whispered in Kates ear that whatever happens to me, please make sure you take care of Clementine (his daughter) and tell her I love her.
    Absolute funniest scene was when Frank says “we’d make it a helluva lot farther if we just dropped 100 lbs.” and the camera did a closeup of Hurley really nervous.

    I believe that the island has been there for centuries and that it must continually find a leader to guide its destiny. Jacob> Ben>Locke> and finally to Aaron.

    Don’t think Jin could survive but I guess nobody is ever dead for sure there.

  417. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="228154"][quote So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Would it make much sense if Jack says: “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, and mysterious others. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.” Um…I doubt he’d say that, or everything else they’ve all done to survive.[/quote]
    ——–
    HA!
    That’s one of the funniest comments I ever read on here…and just the basic truth!

    And as they drag Jack off to Hugo’s room to be his new roomate; …”and it cures cancer too…”

    Good one Lost Chicka!

  418. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228554"][quote comment="228389"][quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?

    Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
    I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
    ————-
    I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”[/quote]
    ——————————————

    My thought was that Locke was travelling freely between the island and civilization, just like Ben did (we think). Something went wrong – not sure if that’s because Charlotte’s still on the island and maybe the rest of the freighter tots who were in the zodiac on their way back to the freighter from the island when the one blew up and the othe moved, or if it’s the Others. But when it went wrong, Jacob told him that it’s because the 6 left and that he had to bring them back. So John left the island to convince them to come back and someone killed him while he was in LA. The same someone who’s stalking Hurley and following Sayid.
    [/quote]
    I like that theory. The only problem is the only time we have ever seen Ben off the island, before being brought their by his father, has been AFTER he moved it. So we don’t really know if he is able to travel on/off like Alpert, that is just assumed. Maybe the island “leader” can’t leave until they move it?
    Also WOULD Locke be able to walk? If not I doubt he would ever leave willingly.

  419. dawn says:

    How come Sawyer did not hear the explosion when he was swiming to the beach
    He did not realize anything until he turned around after Jullettte told him ????? does not make sense.
    I think Jin is still alive he jumped before the explosion because he knew how long it would take to exploed
    I dont think that Charlette is Annie at all does not add up
    I wonder how there all going to get back to the island together??? Charter a plane
    Walt will make his way back to the island as well

  420. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228358"]

    I think Miles wants to stay because he is curious. I think that is why he agreed to go in the first place. He is a scientist and he wants to know MORE.
    [/quote]
    I stated a couple of threads ago that MAYBE he was Halliwax’s ( The Scientist ) son.
    [quote comment="228558"]
    About Miles – maybe he wants to stay because of the abundance of dead people on the island. It probably feels more like home to him because everyone else can see the DP too.[/quote]
    There is definitely something more to Miles. He can do more than just HEAR dead people . How does he know Red was on the island before?

  421. dawn says:

    Does anyone know how Clarie dies
    Why would her mother fly all the way to LA from Aus. just for a servcie did jake tell kate about Clare being his sister
    What took so long for kate to find saywers daughter

  422. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228572"]Does anyone know how Clarie dies
    Why would her mother fly all the way to LA from Aus. just for a servcie did jake tell kate about Clare being his sister
    What took so long for kate to find saywers daughter[/quote]
    IF Claire is dead, it would have been the house explosion.

  423. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228302"]
    That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hmmmm, I hadn’t thought of that before. Had you mentioned it before this – sorry if I missed it.

    But you do know that the whispers are not only associated with dead people, right? I just listened to one of the recent podcasts, and they stated that when we saw Harper appear to Jack and Juliet in The Other Woman, that really was Harper. And there were whispers before she appeared. So I don’t think the fact that we heard whispers definitely means Richard is dead, but the fact that Richard never seems to age could be explained by him actually being dead. (As Christian is dead)

  424. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228561"]
    Absolute funniest scene was when Frank says “we’d make it a helluva lot farther if we just dropped 100 lbs.” and the camera did a closeup of Hurley really nervous.
    [/quote]
    I liked the scene when Locke told Jack he was gonna have to lie “to protect the island.”

    BEN: “Am I interrupting?
    Jack turns and aims the gun at Ben.
    BEN: “Nice to see you too Jack.”
    BEN: “Couldn’t dind the Anthuriums could you?”
    LOCKE: ” I don’t even know what they look like.”

    I thought that was hilarious. Ben was like let’s go rookie and proceded with HIS plan.
    Here’s the wiki page for anthurium someone inquired about them earlier.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthurium

  425. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228574"][quote comment="228302"]
    That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hmmmm, I hadn’t thought of that before. Had you mentioned it before this – sorry if I missed it.

    But you do know that the whispers are not only associated with dead people, right? I just listened to one of the recent podcasts, and they stated that when we saw Harper appear to Jack and Juliet in The Other Woman, that really was Harper. And there were whispers before she appeared. So I don’t think the fact that we heard whispers definitely means Richard is dead, but the fact that Richard never seems to age could be explained by him actually being dead. (As Christian is dead)[/quote]
    Yes, ToeKnee I do. Haven’t you read my theory? I was using both the fact that he appeared during whispers and doesn’t SEEM to age to theorize he is dead. That’s all.

  426. Hammer says:

    Oh, also, IF one were to buy into Alpert being a whisperer and it is really him who appears, it COULD also apply to Harper….no?

  427. Hammer says:

    Real quick, I meant to put a :) after “haven’t you read my theory”, that must have sounded snippy and it wasn’t intended.

  428. Halliwax says:

    I think the series will end in two years with Jack becoming the leader of the Others/island.. because we least expect it and because it depicts a coming of age from reason to faith over the course of the show for him.. hes been a natural leader from day one and will eventually assume his throne as leader of the island

    and Jacob is actually Jack.. an extension of his name.. the entity of Jacob that cannot be seen is a futuristic ‘whisper’ like the past whispers of those who have died since the whole premise of the show has been revealed now to be based on folding of the space time continuum.. his whispers are telling the current leaders like Ben and Locke how to go about furthering and fulfilling the destiny of the island to ensure the future occurs (Jack/Jacob becoming the leader)

    other factors pointing to this conclusion are his spokesperson in the cabin being his father christian.. who may have been a previous leader.. and his sister claire now being present in the cabin..

    Jack/Jacob most likely told Locke to bring them all back because its necessary to fulfill the destiny.. by bringing him back and the future leader after Jack.. his nephew by bloodline Aaron

  429. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228581"]Real quick, I meant to put a :) after “haven’t you read my theory”, that must have sounded snippy and it wasn’t intended.[/quote]
    No, no – I didn’t think you were being snippy. (although I couldn’t blame you, with the Pistons on the brink of elimination! :) )

    I have read that Whispers thread, although I haven’t checked it in at least a week. And I didn’t recall you saying specifically that Richard is dead. But I suppose if I were to put 1+1 together I’d get 2 (i.e., The Whisperers are dead people, Richard may be one of the Whisperers, so if he is, he must be dead).

  430. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment="228565"][quote comment="228154"][quote So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Would it make much sense if Jack says: “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, and mysterious others. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.” Um…I doubt he’d say that, or everything else they’ve all done to survive.[/quote]
    ——–
    HA!
    That’s one of the funniest comments I ever read on here…and just the basic truth!

    And as they drag Jack off to Hugo’s room to be his new roomate; …”and it cures cancer too…”

    Good one Lost Chicka![/quote]
    ____
    thank you but i forgot 2 other vital pieces of information: Jack Says “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, A CRAZY FRENCH CHICK, and mysterious others. WHILE WE WERE THERE WE BLEW UP A COUPLE OF THESE DHARMA INTIATIVE HATCHES. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.” :) now they escort jack to santa rosa to bcome hurley’s new roomate. and together they shall play chess with mr. ecko. :)

  431. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228586"][quote comment="228581"]Real quick, I meant to put a :) after “haven’t you read my theory”, that must have sounded snippy and it wasn’t intended.[/quote]
    No, no – I didn’t think you were being snippy. (although I couldn’t blame you, with the Pistons on the brink of elimination! :) )

    I have read that Whispers thread, although I haven’t checked it in at least a week. And I didn’t recall you saying specifically that Richard is dead. But I suppose if I were to put 1+1 together I’d get 2 (i.e., The Whisperers are dead people, Richard may be one of the Whisperers, so if he is, he must be dead).[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I’ve left it very loose in the post. Because Harper appeared and at the time we assumed she is alive. I’m not fully committed to the others being dead, it’s just part of my very fluid theory. I just feel that there is a bombshell waiting for us about the whisperers because they appear so often. I think some things that the writers started before they were given an end date my not get followed through on, but they keep using whispers. So I think I have to stay fluid in my theory.

  432. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228586"]No, no – I didn’t think you were being snippy. (although I couldn’t blame you, with the Pistons on the brink of elimination! :) )
    [/quote]
    Oooh, that’s cold. We’ll see!

  433. dawn says:

    Thats right what happened to Harper?
    Is she dead or alive

  434. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
    Is she dead or alive[/quote]
    Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.

  435. Bobola says:

    New rule?
    No Sports Jabber…
    or I’m gonna start talking about my favorite abstract painters.
    Go Mets!

  436. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228605"]New rule?
    No Sports Jabber…
    or I’m gonna start talking about my favorite abstract painters.
    Go Mets![/quote]
    Pistons go down, NBA gets what they wanted.

  437. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228606"][quote comment="228605"]New rule?
    No Sports Jabber…
    or I’m gonna start talking about my favorite abstract painters.
    Go Mets![/quote]
    Pistons go down, NBA gets what they wanted.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    My condolences, Hammer. At least your Wings are looking good. Go C’s!

  438. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
    Is she dead or alive[/quote]
    Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.

  439. Kathy says:

    Hey JCK, post #362, I think Faraday may have gotten his knowledge about the Orchid from Charlotte. Maybe she told him, maybe he was some how was able to study her (like the rat) and gain info about the Orchid.

  440. buggly says:

    I think the reason Ben is saying that everyone has to go back to the island (I’m assuming he will include Desmond in this)is because he wants the help in finding Desmond and by default Penny so he can get his revenge on Whitmore by killing Penny.

  441. lostie says:

    What did Sawyer whisper to Kate before jumping?

  442. Janet says:

    I don’t know if this has been discussed before since I just happened on to this blog {which I’m very excited about!}, but it really bugs me that Aaron supposedly survived without getting any mama’s milk. How did they feed the kid? And it also really bugs me that they never showed Claire breastfeeding, just mentioned “feeding Aaron.” They could have at least showed her doing it with a blanket over her or something. Breastfeeding is natural, especially when you birth the kid on an island!

  443. Janet says:

    [quote comment="228616"]What did Sawyer whisper to Kate before jumping?[/quote]

    I think he told her about his daughter and asked her to keep an eye on her for him.

  444. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228557"]Far-fetched, but maybe Charlie Pace, Charles Widmore, and Charlotte Lewis are all somehow related. They all hail from England anyways…

    Glad to see that Sawyer is back to his funny nick-names. :)[/quote]

    The fact that they are all derivatives of the name Charles is interesting and when we brought it up before, I don’t think we discussed that Charles means “free man.”

    However, I think the “England” connection might not be particularly meaningful. Originally Charlotte was supposed to be portrayed by Kristin Bell who is very decidedly American. I suppose they MAY have wanted her to use an English accent, but I seem to remember Rebecca Mader saying that D&C changed the part to make Charlotte British because they liked Rebecca’s accent so much.

    I guess she had auditioned in an American accent and then when they heard her real speaking voice, asked her to read in her own accent, and then changed the character to fit the actress.

    This would not be out of character for TPTB. The producers CREATED roles for Yunjin Kim and Jorge Garcia after they read for other parts.

    : ) P

  445. lostie says:

    Another question: How could heroic Jack justify escaping on the helicopter when there were other people on the boat, including the first set of survivors who had been ferried from the island and the people who worked onboard the ship. Wouldn’t they all have been clamoring around begging to be allowed onboard?

  446. Cat6405 says:

    Who is Harper?

  447. approaching infinity says:

    So im watching the finale over again.. and Yunjin Kim (Sun) did a really good job acting when she saw the ship blow up. I got chills both times watching that scene!! :o

  448. RAY says:

    Did anyone think that Claire’s face looked wide? No offense to Emilie de Ravin (if she is reading this), but I was wondering if was really pregnant when this was shot?

    Maybe that’s why she is off with the dead people…they had to get rid of her for awhile while she has a baby (a real baby).

    If you discussed this already, sorry. I did the control-f thing to see if it was discussed.

  449. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="228620"]Another question: How could heroic Jack justify escaping on the helicopter when there were other people on the boat, including the first set of survivors who had been ferried from the island and the people who worked onboard the ship. Wouldn’t they all have been clamoring around begging to be allowed onboard?[/quote]
    ——–
    Because Jack is really not a hero at all. And yeah, most of the Freighties wudda been crazy to get on the chopper but seems most had no clue about the C-4?
    Or why wuddint they be jumping off the sides?

    Ok, just thought of something that bugged me;
    How Ben tells Locke how to get to the Orchids and what switches to pull to move the Island…and he can’t even get past the first door!
    What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? Am I the only one who thought that was very strange? Seems not very well thought out by the writers…almost no one would have figured that out so why even write the part about him telling Locke anything?
    It’s like telling someone to do brain surgery and handing me a bottle of aspirin and walking off.

    But, yeah, I look past this stuff and dig it anyway.
    Can I get a job as an advisor on the show?
    I promise to bring back the polar Bear!
    Hey, how many toes does a Polar Bear have?
    Maybe the statue is a Bear?
    You heard it here first.

  450. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228630"]
    What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? [/quote]
    Maybe Ben just wanted Locke to go down there and explore for awhile, because he sure was in a hurry when he came back. I don’t think he expected Locke to move the island if that is what you are hinting at. That seemed to be Ben’s “job”. Locke just delivered him the message from Jacob.

  451. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228625"]Who is Harper?[/quote]
    Harper Stanhope. Juliet was sleeping with her husband Goodwin. Here is a link from lostpedia.com.

    http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Harper_Stanhope

  452. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="228610"][quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
    Is she dead or alive[/quote]
    Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    You are prob. correct, can’t seem to find the transcript. I’ll have to listen again.

  453. Melissa says:

    This has probably already been talked about, but when Rita posted somewhere up there about Aaron and Jin Yeon being Adam and Eve, it got me thinking – the black and white might be yin and yang (more than a racial call-out). I think there’s something to the idea of them specifically having to go back to the island – also plays into the fortune teller’s reading of Claire.

  454. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="228585"]I think the series will end in two years with Jack becoming the leader of the Others/island.. because we least expect it and because it depicts a coming of age from reason to faith over the course of the show for him.. hes been a natural leader from day one and will eventually assume his throne as leader of the island

    and Jacob is actually Jack.. an extension of his name.. the entity of Jacob that cannot be seen is a futuristic ‘whisper’ like the past whispers of those who have died since the whole premise of the show has been revealed now to be based on folding of the space time continuum.. his whispers are telling the current leaders like Ben and Locke how to go about furthering and fulfilling the destiny of the island to ensure the future occurs (Jack/Jacob becoming the leader)

    other factors pointing to this conclusion are his spokesperson in the cabin being his father christian.. who may have been a previous leader.. and his sister claire now being present in the cabin..

    Jack/Jacob most likely told Locke to bring them all back because its necessary to fulfill the destiny.. by bringing him back and the future leader after Jack.. his nephew by bloodline Aaron[/quote]

    That is very interesting. Surprised no one has given you any feedback on it. Maybe because nobody seems to like Jack.

  455. Seajam says:

    Here’s just a thought that may be relevant to the timelines:

    Ben and Locke go to the Orchid. Ben starts filling it up with metal, to Locke’s dismay. Ben starts the machine, which blows a big hole in the wall. According to the video, the machine was built in close proximity to an anomaly that had been discovered (the wheel – although I suspect Dharma never found the actual wheel). If this had been done before, the hole would already be there. The wheel room was built in Jacob-fashion, ie the oil lamp and the old wooden ladders. Instead of entering a sequence in a computer (DI style), one had to turn a mechanical wheel.

    So, I’ll throw out the theory that the island has not been moved since at least the beginning of the DI, sometime in the early to mid-Seventies.

  456. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="228567"]How come Sawyer did not hear the explosion when he was swiming to the beach
    He did not realize anything until he turned around after Jullettte told him ????? does not make sense.

    Walt will make his way back to the island as well[/quote]
    I wondered that as well but figured if you are swimming in the ocean, the waves are probably pretty loud and your head is sometimes under water. The ship was far enough out that by the time the sound got to him, it was pretty toned down.

    As far as Walt, Wow! He is growing into his features, not so awkward looking anymore. He MUST play some important role in the future or else they wouldn’t have had him coming clear across the country to see Hurley. I laughed when his grandma asked Hurley if he was dangerous (is that what she asked??) because I don’t think anyone who is mentally unstable will say YES, I AM!!! However, with that said, I don’t think Hurley is truly mentally unstable.

  457. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="228632"][quote comment="228630"]
    What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? [/quote]
    Maybe Ben just wanted Locke to go down there and explore for awhile, because he sure was in a hurry when he came back. I don’t think he expected Locke to move the island if that is what you are hinting at. That seemed to be Ben’s “job”. Locke just delivered him the message from Jacob.[/quote]
    I agree. Locke was not supposed to actually move the island, if he did, he wouldn’t be able to return. Ben knew it was his job to do it, otherwise once down there, he could have instructed Locke on what to do and not told him he couldn’t return. Ben has lied and been sneaky in the past (Seriously… LOL)and I am a little surprised that he didn’t tell Locke how to do it!

  458. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228722"][quote comment="228632"][quote comment="228630"]
    What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? [/quote]
    Maybe Ben just wanted Locke to go down there and explore for awhile, because he sure was in a hurry when he came back. I don’t think he expected Locke to move the island if that is what you are hinting at. That seemed to be Ben’s “job”. Locke just delivered him the message from Jacob.[/quote]
    I agree. Locke was not supposed to actually move the island, if he did, he wouldn’t be able to return. Ben knew it was his job to do it, otherwise once down there, he could have instructed Locke on what to do and not told him he couldn’t return. Ben has lied and been sneaky in the past (Seriously… LOL)and I am a little surprised that he didn’t tell Locke how to do it![/quote]
    **********************************
    Definitely one of Ben’s more noble acts. He told Locke that although Jacob told Locke to move the island, he didn’t tell him how to do it, because he (Jacob) wanted the consequences to fall on him (Ben). Ben knew this and fulfilled his destiny. Go Ben!!

  459. barbara williams says:

    [quote comment="228158"][quote comment="228144"]Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Ah, the plot thickens. I thought Jeremy Bentham was such an odd name…I was thinking that it was sort of an anagram of Benjamin – used just to throw us off for two hours, but I’m glad there is a more intriguing possibility.[/quote]

  460. barbara williams says:

    There is also an anagram for Jeremy Bentham and it pertains to Locke…”THE MERE MAN By J”

  461. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228629"]Did anyone think that Claire’s face looked wide? No offense to Emilie de Ravin (if she is reading this), but I was wondering if was really pregnant when this was shot?

    Maybe that’s why she is off with the dead people…they had to get rid of her for awhile while she has a baby (a real baby).

    If you discussed this already, sorry. I did the control-f thing to see if it was discussed.[/quote]

    Guess your CTRL-F didn’t work right! LOL

    See #231.

    : ) P

  462. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="228702"]Here’s just a thought that may be relevant to the timelines:

    Ben and Locke go to the Orchid. Ben starts filling it up with metal, to Locke’s dismay. Ben starts the machine, which blows a big hole in the wall. According to the video, the machine was built in close proximity to an anomaly that had been discovered (the wheel – although I suspect Dharma never found the actual wheel). If this had been done before, the hole would already be there. The wheel room was built in Jacob-fashion, ie the oil lamp and the old wooden ladders. Instead of entering a sequence in a computer (DI style), one had to turn a mechanical wheel.

    So, I’ll throw out the theory that the island has not been moved since at least the beginning of the DI, sometime in the early to mid-Seventies.[/quote]

    I think that is a great observation. I suspect that much of DI’s outwardly visible research was intended to distract the workers from the “real” research that was going on behind closed doors.

    : ) P

  463. Kathy P says:

    Im wondering when Sun went to see Widmore she said she was a manager at the company and it appeared that her father was still running things. We know she bought a controlling share so why is she letting her father seem in control? Im thinking she is keeping a low profile cause she thinks Jin is alive and wants to go back to the island to get him. That being said I also think Ben is now working for Sun. It seems the island is done with Ben he can’t go back so now he is driven to kill Penny for revenge. If Ben can help Sun get back to the island then maybe Sun can help Ben find Penny through Widmore? Not sure.
    Funny thought opening scene for next season the island rises from the water catching the Raftys and Jin.
    Also one other thing didn’t the island heal Jin ? He could not make babies before the island now it appears he can. Jin is special and maybe he cannot die?
    Love the comments took me hours to read them all.

  464. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228694"]
    Maybe because nobody seems to like Jack.[/quote]
    I like Jack. He is easily one of the most complexed characters on the show. Some people just don’t seem to like his smugness maybe ( SMUG ALERT)? Dude had his appendix taken out , then trekked through the jungle to help them get rescued. Not really sure what is wrong with that. I am just not really sure if he is Jacob. Jack is not derived from the name Jacob. Jacob is actually a cognate of the name JAMES. HMMMM

  465. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228751"]Im wondering when Sun went to see Widmore she said she was a manager at the company and it appeared that her father was still running things. We know she bought a controlling share so why is she letting her father seem in control? [/quote]
    She called herself the “managing director”, which in a lot of companies is the CEO. They are usually responsible for the daily running of the company and developing business plans for the long-term future of the company.

  466. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="227739"]This was a really great season, and is the best show ever to be on television.

    Question:

    Do Desmond and Lapitus have to return with the Oceanic 6?[/quote]

    No. Because D & L were not onboard 815, they can go back to civilization and say anything about were they had been. The media will not question them because they have no basis to connect them to the 815 crash.

  467. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="227752"]Sayid said that Bentham talked to him, Hurley talked to him, they all seemed to talk to him. Bentham = Locke, but HOW did he find everyone and how did he die? Did Sayid kill him and then tell Hurley it was an apparent suicide? How did Jack know it was him when he read the obit? Oh… because he talked to him too!!! I am so confused.

    Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.

    As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]

    I’m on the side that believes Mike is NOT the father of Sun’s baby. I think they threw that scene in there to fuel the speculation of that possibility. Toss in the bait and fish will bite.

  468. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]

    Ben tells Jack he has to lie because this is a place where miracles happen. Jack is in denial, but I think he somewhat does believe this. He knows that people will kill unconditionally regarding almost any matter concerning the island. He knows it will impossible to get the outside world to believe the truth. He knows that some of his people want to stay. He believes everyone else who wanted to leave the island is dead. I think the lying makes sense now.

  469. Bobola says:

    Still puzzling over the directive to Locke to go down to the Orchid by Ben;
    Did Ben know he would survive Keamy? I sure would not have bet on Ben in the situation. Maybe he was hoping Smokey or Patchy would show…ha.
    Bet we see his dead daughter’s ghost next season.

    So why didn’t Ben just say; hey look for the red flower and that’s where the door is…instead of by a name unknown to Locke (Anthuriums).
    Locke seems to only know the latin for Cannibus!

    Locke is getting dumber by the episode; “How many times do I HAVE to tell you…” (Ben perviously)
    and then him standing there like a 10 year old asking questions as Ben hurries to blow a hole in the portal…
    never seems to get it that BEn knows what he’s doing…doesn’t even ask; how the hell did you get away from that maniac Keamy!

    Anyhew; Seems Ben wudda just said get thee below and wait for me.
    Bygones.

    As far as Dr, Jack; what the hell good did he do when the coconuts hit the fan with the Keamy Krew? Hell, Freckles did a lot more.
    Funny scene; Ben asks what was promised to the Losties by Alpert…and very business like says; ok, fair enough…(something like that).

    Gonna be very let down if Sun is stabbing the Losties in the back by helping Widmore. Please don’t make her into a cliche Dragon Lady. Sun’s father looks like he’s always had a bad meal…did he get a hold of a box of those old crackers Hugo ate?

    Very weird feel to Alpert’s camp; like a homeless camp of hobos; if they have been on the island for so long why don’t they have better digs? Seems there’s plenty of nice bunkers on the island…and they seem to have been at this camp for a while because Ben knew they would get his signal via the mirror.

    I suspect what has gone wrong on the island is a coup by Alpert after Locke won’t stop asking dumb questions. Locke getting to be like Chauncey Gardener!
    (from Kosinski’s Being There)

    Yeah, I thought it weird that Sawyer didn’t hear the Ship blow up either. Probably stood in front of the band’s speakers too many times at a Lynard Skinner Concert. Note to Ocean swimmers; the side stroke or back stroke will probably do better for long distances.
    Sawyer went right at it with the breast stroke. (ah, I knew he was a breast man.)
    Took me about an hour and a half to swim the mile in a pool when I was a boyscout. Sawyer must be part tadpole or maybe the current was with him.

    Have not seen anyone mention how close the Ship was by the time it blew…looked a lot closer than the 5 miles the pilot said he was going to come because of the fuzzy navigational equipment. And how did they cover that distance in the time it seems passed if they were 90 or even 40 miles out? Looked like about 2 miles away to me.

  470. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228770"][quote comment="227752"][/quote]

    I’m on the side that believes Mike is NOT the father of Sun’s baby. I think they threw that scene in there to fuel the speculation of that possibility. Toss in the bait and fish will bite.[/quote]

    **************************
    Chomp chomp nibble nibble……………

  471. MiraKS says:

    Few thoughts:
    1. Absolutely will be very disappointed if Michael ends up being the father of Sun’s baby. To me it would cheapen the show to the equivelent of a soap opera. Michael and Sun were just friends (almost kissed once, but that’s all).
    2. Do have serious doubts that Jin is still alive. I could see him coming back ala Christian or Charlie, but it would take a lot to explain how he could have gotten away from the sinking boat. Even if he had jumped, the sinking whirl would have pulled him under.
    3. I think Miles knows that Charlotte has been on the island before- or has some connection to it- because the whispers told him. Something like one of the whisperers saying: “Hey, look ya’all, it’s Charlotte. Haven’t seen her in twenty years!”

  472. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228782"]
    So why didn’t Ben just say; hey look for the red flower and that’s where the door is…instead of by a name unknown to Locke (Anthuriums).
    Locke seems to only know the latin for Cannibus!

    Locke is getting dumber by the episode; “How many times do I HAVE to tell you…” (Ben perviously)
    and then him standing there like a 10 year old asking questions as Ben hurries to blow a hole in the portal…
    never seems to get it that BEn knows what he’s doing…doesn’t even ask; how the hell did you get away from that maniac Keamy!

    [/quote]

    ***********************************
    I think we should give Locke a bit of a break here. I mean, how well would YOU have done without any real information about what is going on or what the heck this place is? Locke keeps being TOLD by Ben that HE is the new leader, but then Ben withholds all pertinent information. No wonder Locke is confused: we ALL would be in his situation.

    Now, that said, Locke’s insecurities have no doubt gotten the best of him as the new leader (post Ben) and have caused the trouble that Ben refers to, but that is another matter.

  473. Rita says:

    [quote comment="228785"]Few thoughts:

    2. Do have serious doubts that Jin is still alive. I could see him coming back ala Christian or Charlie, but it would take a lot to explain how he could have gotten away from the sinking boat. Even if he had jumped, the sinking whirl would have pulled him under.
    [/quote]

    ****************************
    I was pretty committed to the “Jin is alive” theory, but it is starting to look alot like when Claire blew up in her house, but looked just fine, unscathed even, afterward. Most of us now believe her to be dead, I think. Jin may be like her then: Among the “undead” maybe? I fully expect to see more of him (in some form) however. He is still central to the story.

  474. Ma' halo says:

    [quote comment="228791"]
    I think. Jin may be like her then: Among the “undead” maybe? I fully expect to see more of him (in some form) however. He is still central to the story.
    [/quote]
    yeah.. you’ll see more Jin (DUI GIN) if you want to visit him at the Hawaii State Correctional Facility during visiting hours.

  475. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228791"]
    Most of us now believe her to be dead, I think. [/quote]
    That is just a theory, Claire being dead. I don’t see how they could get away with killing off one of the ORIGINAL main characters without an explanation. We were led to believe Sawyer rescued her from the house ( ALIVE ), and later wandered off with her father then ended up in Jacob’s cabin. She doesn’t have to be dead to be in Jacob’s cabin.

    At least we now know Charlie is as dead as Mr. Ekko.

  476. elveszett says:

    When Ben said to John: “I’m sorry I made your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island, or was he talking about John’s whole life?

  477. elveszett says:

    When Ben told John “Sorry for making your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island or John’s entire life?

  478. elveszett says:

    Oops – I posted that twice. Sorry!

  479. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="228788"]
    ***********************************
    I think we should give Locke a bit of a break here. I mean, how well would YOU have done without any real information about what is going on or what the heck this place is? Locke keeps being TOLD by Ben that HE is the new leader, but then Ben withholds all pertinent information. No wonder Locke is confused: we ALL would be in his situation.

    Now, that said, Locke’s insecurities have no doubt gotten the best of him as the new leader (post Ben) and have caused the trouble that Ben refers to, but that is another matter.[/quote]
    ———–
    He already had his big break; remember when he fell out of the window?
    No way!
    If he’s gonna try and step up to the plate and play Leader he’s gonna have to act like one.
    The stakes are too high in the life and Death game on that island.

  480. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="229001"]When Ben told John “Sorry for making your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island or John’s entire life?[/quote]

    ——————————————

    Good point! Because what was up with the visit to the foster home – and Locke chose the knife, and Alpert was all “are you sure that’s yours?” I think that’s going to play into the troubles after Ben leaves and Locke’s finally in charge. Maybe there was some choice between Locke and Ben that the Others had to make (both mothers named Emily, both born prematurely) – but at the same time, I don’t know what influence Ben would’ve had over whether they chose Ben or Locke to be apologizing for it. Remember when Ben saw his mother in the woods? That was the first time he met Alpert too, and there wasn’t a test. So my question is, why did they choose Ben instead of Locke? Or did they – maybe from the beginning they’ve both been chosen to have different roles? One the warrior (Ben) and the other the peace-maker (Locke)?

  481. tom scott says:

    Sorry, to be honest, I did not read all the the posts thoroughly. Did anyone else happen to mention that John Locke and Jeremy Bentham were BOTH radical English political philosophers.

    John Locke lived in the 17th Century and was influential in kicking off the French Enlightenment. Among other things he believed at birth that an infant’s brain is a clean slate and is molded only by teaching and experience. Doesn’t that sound a little bit like Lost’s Locke who believes that everybody on the island can start over from scratch?

    Jeremy Bentham lived and wrote in the 18th Century. He had a radical and very expansive view of personal freedom (again that sounds to me a lot like our Locke).

    Anyway, when they started talking about Jeremy Bentham, I knew that had to be a pseudonym for John Locke. I guess a liberal arts education is not a total waste in watching broadacast TV.

  482. achtungpv says:

    Two questions…

    couldn’t they have just dumped all the C4 that wasn’t connected to the wires in the ocean thus making it a much smaller explosion and thus not sinking the boat?

    why not just snap off the antenna from the radio receiver? Then it can’t receive a signal. Assuming it wasn’t receiving a “green” signal.

  483. achtungpv says:

    another question, which episode did SUn sleep with Michael? I have no memory of it.

  484. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229008"]Sorry, to be honest, I did not read all the the posts thoroughly. Did anyone else happen to mention that John Locke and Jeremy Bentham were BOTH radical English political philosophers.
    [/quote]
    I did not read your whole post because it has been mentioned numerous times already. There is a great feature that you can use…CTRL F. You can then search any subject like BENTHAM or JEREMY. :)

  485. Miss Kim says:

    Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?

  486. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]

    I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane. I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.

    : ) P

  487. RGS says:

    [quote comment="228772"][quote comment="227991"][/quote]

    Ben tells Jack he has to lie because this is a place where miracles happen. Jack is in denial, but I think he somewhat does believe this. He knows that people will kill unconditionally regarding almost any matter concerning the island. He knows it will impossible to get the outside world to believe the truth. He knows that some of his people want to stay. He believes everyone else who wanted to leave the island is dead. I think the lying makes sense now.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^
    But in telling their modified true story, why would they have to give any details about the island itself? “We were stuck on an island, not even sure where, we decided, hey we can live together on this island [(or die alone) just wanted to get a show title in] so we decided to set sail on this raft hoping we’d hit land, and we eventually did…it was a miracle, you’ll understand if we don’t want to go near an ocean again anytime soon, so please save the questions about the island.”

    Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks, “Hey the damn thing disappeared, I have no clue where it is, none of us do. Push come to shove I’d even be willing to take you to where I last saw it.”

    Naturally when the O6 are picked up, they’d go through some medical screenings to just get checked out I mean they’d been missing for 3 months. “Hmmm, Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh…it looks like..an appendectomy scar?” “Um, no, I uh cut myself and stitched myself up.”

    Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?

  488. CAG says:

    [quote comment="229007"][quote comment="229001"]When Ben told John “Sorry for making your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island or John’s entire life?[/quote]

    ——————————————

    Good point! Because what was up with the visit to the foster home – and Locke chose the knife, and Alpert was all “are you sure that’s yours?” I think that’s going to play into the troubles after Ben leaves and Locke’s finally in charge. Maybe there was some choice between Locke and Ben that the Others had to make (both mothers named Emily, both born prematurely) – but at the same time, I don’t know what influence Ben would’ve had over whether they chose Ben or Locke to be apologizing for it. Remember when Ben saw his mother in the woods? That was the first time he met Alpert too, and there wasn’t a test. So my question is, why did they choose Ben instead of Locke? Or did they – maybe from the beginning they’ve both been chosen to have different roles? One the warrior (Ben) and the other the peace-maker (Locke)?[/quote]
    *************************
    I wonder if Charlotte’s mother’s name was Emily

  489. CAG says:

    [quote comment="227752"]Sayid said that Bentham talked to him, Hurley talked to him, they all seemed to talk to him. Bentham = Locke, but HOW did he find everyone and how did he die? Did Sayid kill him and then tell Hurley it was an apparent suicide?
    [/quote]
    ———————-
    I can’t see sayid making it look like a suicide … that wouldn’t be his style. I can see the obit: Jeremy Bentham apparently committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest and head 9 times!

  490. Rita says:

    [quote comment="229097"][quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]

    I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.

    I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ************************************
    I had thought that they just picked 3 people who were FOR SURE dead, so that there was no possibility of them turning up one day and messing up the story (who knows who might eventually get off the island some other way?). However, if one were to pick the most likely to really make it off the plane in THEIR scenario, I wouldn’t have picked Kate, who was allegedidly 6 months pregnant and handcuffed to the marshall. I wouldn’t have picked Hurley, who wouldn’t have been the likeliest to move that fast or swim that well. The rest, OK, why not? But their own story has holes in it from the beginning. Why would ANYONE believe it I wonder?

  491. Gandurf says:

    Sorry Brothas, I am tired of the many posts about Jin surviving and was its Michael’s baby!! Jin died and its NOT michael’s baby..just get over it..and these are very minor issues and I was hoping to see comments on the crux of the episode about JeremyBentham and the time travel.

    My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.

  492. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229214"]
    My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.[/quote]
    Ben and Richard have important roles with the island, so by your theory they are related to Jack also? If that is your basis, that’s a pretty shaky theory. I think Jin being alive and Michael being JI Yeon’s father holds more weight. :)

  493. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229145"]
    I wonder if Charlotte’s mother’s name was Emily[/quote]
    Aaron’s mother’s is.
    EMILIE de Ravin

  494. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229214"]I was hoping to see comments on the crux of the episode about JeremyBentham and the time travel.[/quote]

    Go for it. Whatcha got to share on those things? Then maybe we can comment.

    : ) P

  495. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229103"]
    Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]
    [quote comment="229103"]
    Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? [/quote]
    It sounds like you answered your own question. Or the island really is the only thing that can kill Widmore. When it comes calling you have to end your OWN life, like Locke.

  496. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="229097"][quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]

    I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.

    I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Charlie and Libby were near and dear to Hugo’s heart. Maybe during the lie discussion Hugo pushed for those two to pay homage. Still lost on Boone.

  497. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="229255"][quote comment="229103"]
    Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]
    [quote comment="229103"]
    Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? [/quote]
    It sounds like you answered your own question.

    Or the island really is the only thing that can kill Widmore. When it comes calling you have to end your OWN life, like Locke.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Did Micheal take his own life? It’s debatable, he tried to use the bomb, but the island wouldn’t let him, then when he was trying NOT to blow up….he did.

  498. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229291"]
    Did Micheal take his own life? It’s debatable, he tried to use the bomb, but the island wouldn’t let him, then when he was trying NOT to blow up….he did.[/quote]
    I don’t think he took his own life, but he knew his mission on the freighter was to die. I was suggesting that if you once had “control” of the island, we are currently led to believe Widmore, Ben, and Locke all have, maybe taking your own life is the only way to die.
    BEN: We both know I can’t do that.

  499. Bobola says:

    That damn Polar Bear must be hungry!
    What the hell does he eat? Certainly not 15 year old crackers.
    Maybe washed up Freighties and remains of Charlie, Ekko, Patchy, and Keamy? Musta not have liked the taste of Dharma Pit flesh.

  500. RGS says:

    [quote comment="229255"][quote comment="229103"]
    Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]
    [quote comment="229103"]
    Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? [/quote]
    It sounds like you answered your own question.

    Or the island really is the only thing that can kill Widmore. When it comes calling you have to end your OWN life, like Locke.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    Though that is a plausible explanation, my point with how approachable Widmore is was to suggest that he is touchable. They could’ve taken him to the island all by himself and kept him tied up ala Locke’s father.

  501. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="229298"][quote comment="229291"]
    Did Micheal take his own life? It’s debatable, he tried to use the bomb, but the island wouldn’t let him, then when he was trying NOT to blow up….he did.[/quote]
    I don’t think he took his own life, but he knew his mission on the freighter was to die. I was suggesting that if you once had “control” of the island, we are currently led to believe Widmore, Ben, and Locke all have, maybe taking your own life is the only way to die.
    BEN: We both know I can’t do that.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Gotcha.

  502. Kitly says:

    [quote comment="229236"][quote comment="229214"]
    My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.[/quote]
    Ben and Richard have important roles with the island, so by your theory they are related to Jack also?

    If that is your basis, that’s a pretty shaky theory. I think Jin being alive and Michael being JI Yeon’s father holds more weight. :)[/quote]
    —-
    It makes sense locke,jack are connected somehow. Ben/Richard know about the island but they identify aaron,claire,jack’s dad as the “key” to the island

  503. Lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229214"]Sorry Brothas, I am tired of the many posts about Jin surviving and was its Michael’s baby!! Jin died and its NOT michael’s baby..just get over it..and these are very minor issues and I was hoping to see comments on the crux of the episode about JeremyBentham and the time travel.

    My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.[/quote]


    Wow..I like this idea that Locke and Jack are blood related….I will think along this line and see the possiblities.

  504. Miss Kim says:

    In addition to Libby, Boone, and Charlie, the following people are known to have survived the crash of 815 but have since died: Ana Lucia, Arzt, Donald, Edwin Mars, Eko, Nathan, Nikki, Paolo, Scott, Shannon, and Steve. I purposely omitted Michael/Walt for obvious reasons and Seth Norris as it seems the pilot was visible in the “plane wreckage” footage. Since their names were mentioned at the O6 press conference as an addition to TNPLH part 1, I’m thinkin’ there’s got to be a reason. Of course, I could just be “overthinking” as well. I can see Libby and Charlie to be quite significant to things we have yet to see unfold…..but Boone? Hmmmm.

  505. della says:

    [quote comment="228295"]Yea…My Turn

    1. Any significance with the flower Antheriums?

    2.Hurley did not seem “crazy” at all when speaking to Walt

    3.The Orchid was built 20 years ago

    4.How did Miles know that Charlotte had been to the island before? I love the way he said “How DO I know? hmmmm

    5.Favorite line: Sawyer calling Frank Kenny Rogers…so funny i laughed out loud

    6.What would make Juliet stay on the island? Who was left for her to get off?

    7.I believe Jin jumped and got on the zodiac with Daniel. Since the Hydra island dissapeared as well i am believing that the raft went with them as well. They will show up next season.

    8.Oct. 24th 2005 is when Ben ended up in Tunisia. That is 10 months from when the island moved. Are we to think that the island rematerialized 10 months into the future like Ben?

    9.Was the donkey wheel deliberately frozen to keep the island in check similar to what Michael did witht eh freighter bomb?

    10. Does the island get all its power from the substance within the donkey wheel?

    11.C.S. Lewis wrote a book called “Miracles” It is very similar to the conversation Jack and Locke at the Orchid about the possibilities of miracles.

    12. Was there a videocamera in the corner of the room where the bomb was? I would like a screen cap if anyone can find one. After Michael heard the wispers he looked to the left (videocamera) and then to the right and saw CS

    13. The phone call Kate received with the wispers said “the island needs you, you have to go back before it’s too late”

    These are off the top of my head reading through all of your comments. Please enlighten me with answers if you have them. Thank you[/quote]

    Anthuriums are hermaphodites. I don’t think that they have anything to do with anything. I certainly don’t think they were trying to tell us that Ben or Locke are hermaphrodites.

    By the way, who were any of the characters with Faraday? You know that these are people who we will see next season. I just watched the episode again, and I didn’t recognize a one.

  506. Hilltop says:

    Locke and Jack are cousins

  507. Andrew says:

    Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.

  508. leah says:

    well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .i would have been happier if it all ended right there.read most of the posts,mmmmm is all i can say about it.as most of you know ive watched since jacks eye, but …..i grow tired of the show …me thinks they re dragging it out …..???

  509. Newbie says:

    Can Walt travel to and from the island? Remember when Ben shot Locke and left him in the ditch in Season 3 and Walt comes up and say we have work to do..well, if the island only inhabits dead or ‘undead’ peoples’ bodies like Charlie or Ecko or Libby, then only two things are possible.
    1. Walt is dead/undead
    2. Walt can space/time travel

    Since both of these dont seem very plausible, the theory that the island only inhabits dead peoples’ bodies is flawed to begin with. Maybe the island can create any apparition it wants to..of the dead and the living??

    I think that the second person Sun blames for Jin’s apparent death is Jack because in the last scene of the finale Jack says “Sun blames me for…” so its implied that its for Jin’s death.

  510. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229391"]
    1. Walt is dead/undead
    2. Walt can space/time travel
    [/quote]
    3. He was a manifestation. Not sure if you need to be on the island for that.

  511. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="229380"]Locke and Jack are cousins[/quote]
    Please explain how you came to that conclusion. It’s a wild theory and I am just wondering why you think that.

  512. leah says:

    [quote comment="229396"][quote comment="229380"]Locke and Jack are cousins[/quote]
    Please explain how you came to that conclusion. It’s a wild theory and I am just wondering why you think that.[/quote]
    ///////////
    so am i

  513. RGS says:

    Another idea I’m struggling with. Ben dons the Halliwax jacket, turns the donkey wheel and suddenly appears in Tunisia. Beats up the two horsemen and promptly goes to check into the hotel where he asks for clarification of the date. Something to the effect of, “October…2005?” So he has a general idea of where he will end up?

    At that point he’s viewing Sayid mourning his wife’s death on tv, so I don’t think he had anything to do with it, but recognizes that he could potentially recruit Sayid based on Nadia’s death. He must have some fast acting intelligence that feed him info. So then he goes to reruit Sayid with the belief that the killer would also follow Sayid to the funeral service. Lots of fast action there.

    I originally thought Ben got off the island and was doing things before appearing in the desert, but it looks like he turns the wheel and then gets right to work 10 months later.

    Incidentally Hammer there is now about a .03 chance that Ben could tell Sayid to go after Penny, when Penny is the person who rescued them on her ship and he witnessed the Des/Penny reunion.

    So why does Ben get so pleased with himself that he was able to recruit Sayid on the mission to exact revenge on Widmore’s daughter, assuming that was his plan from the onset of Keamy killing his adopted daughter?

  514. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="229103"][quote comment="228772"][quote comment="227991"][/quote]

    Ben tells Jack he has to lie because this is a place where miracles happen. Jack is in denial, but I think he somewhat does believe this. He knows that people will kill unconditionally regarding almost any matter concerning the island. He knows it will impossible to get the outside world to believe the truth. He knows that some of his people want to stay. He believes everyone else who wanted to leave the island is dead. I think the lying makes sense now.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^
    But in telling their modified true story, why would they have to give any details about the island itself? “We were stuck on an island, not even sure where, we decided, hey we can live together on this island [(or die alone) just wanted to get a show title in] so we decided to set sail on this raft hoping we’d hit land, and we eventually did…it was a miracle, you’ll understand if we don’t want to go near an ocean again anytime soon, so please save the questions about the island.”

    Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks, “Hey the damn thing disappeared, I have no clue where it is, none of us do. Push come to shove I’d even be willing to take you to where I last saw it.”

    Naturally when the O6 are picked up, they’d go through some medical screenings to just get checked out I mean they’d been missing for 3 months. “Hmmm, Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh…it looks like..an appendectomy scar?” “Um, no, I uh cut myself and stitched myself up.”

    Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]

    ________________________________

    “We were stuck on an island, not even sure where… is very similar to what they told the press. Just had to say they started in the water because of the fake wreckage already found.

    Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks… they would probably kill them.

    Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh… A week on Penny’s boat with medical supplies can do wonders.

    Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out? — The island won’t let him die yet.

  515. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="229406"]Another idea I’m struggling with. Ben dons the Halliwax jacket, turns the donkey wheel and suddenly appears in Tunisia. Beats up the two horsemen and promptly goes to check into the hotel where he asks for clarification of the date. Something to the effect of, “October…2005?” So he has a general idea of where he will end up?

    At that point he’s viewing Sayid mourning his wife’s death on tv, so I don’t think he had anything to do with it, but recognizes that he could potentially recruit Sayid based on Nadia’s death. He must have some fast acting intelligence that feed him info. So then he goes to reruit Sayid with the belief that the killer would also follow Sayid to the funeral service. Lots of fast action there.

    I originally thought Ben got off the island and was doing things before appearing in the desert, but it looks like he turns the wheel and then gets right to work 10 months later.

    Incidentally Hammer there is now about a .03 chance that Ben could tell Sayid to go after Penny, when Penny is the person who rescued them on her ship and he witnessed the Des/Penny reunion.

    So why does Ben get so pleased with himself that he was able to recruit Sayid on the mission to exact revenge on Widmore’s daughter, assuming that was his plan from the onset of Keamy killing his adopted daughter?[/quote]

    ____________________________________
    First, I think Ben and the island went to 2 different places in space and time. Good point about the timeline after Ben arrives in Tunisia, though. When and how did he get the photo of the guy in CA? He has to be getting help from Others who are spread out throughout the world.

  516. RGS says:

    [quote comment="229407"][quote comment="229103"][quote comment="228772"][quote comment="227991"][/quote]
    _______________________________

    “We were stuck on an island, not even sure where… is very similar to what they told the press. Just had to say they started in the water because of the fake wreckage already found.

    Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks… they would probably kill them.

    Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh… A week on Penny’s boat with medical supplies can do wonders.

    Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out? — The island won’t let him die yet.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I buy pt 1, I can swallow pt 3. Regarding pt. 2, I was thinking Abbadon is connected to Widmore and he’s asking questions w/o killing. If he is not connected to Widmore is Widmore just going to not have folks try to question anyone, especially after Sun approaches him talking about “we have common interests.” Doesn’t Sun know who she’s effin with?

    Pt 4 is going down like some dry chicken only because if the island is not letting him die seems like he’d have carte blanche to do many a thing knowing he can’t die. But I can swallow it based on show consistency.

  517. RGS says:

    Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.

  518. Andrew says:

    [quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.[/quote]

    _____________________________________________________

    I think they wanted to protect Aaron from Widmore, or Ben and they knew the only way to do that is if one of them looked after him. if they said it was Claires then her mom would have probably been the legal gurdian of him. Plus yeah Kate probably got attached to him and found it hard to let go

  519. TanziTwo says:

    \\I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.//

    it doesn’t matter who was where. the fake plane ditched intact. the story was that eight got out thru one door before the plane went down intact. seating chart, tailies, nosies, fuselagies have no bearing on the FAKE story.

  520. ghostrider says:

    Wax Locke in coffin.

  521. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229406"]
    So why does Ben get so pleased with himself that he was able to recruit Sayid on the mission to exact revenge on Widmore’s daughter, assuming that was his plan from the onset of Keamy killing his adopted daughter?[/quote]
    That is an excellent point about Ben getting right to work. It was also pretty convenient for him. Right at the time of Nadia’s death. Now that’s a fickle bitch (Destiny?). I assumed he knew the details about Sayid and Nadia, but how could he?

    Now I am wondering how Widmore knew that Alex was killed. He would have had to learn that from someone that was on the island, right. Someone that was rescued that knew of Alex’s death. Who knew of Alex’s death?

    His revenge plan on Penny is an objective for him, but like Widmore, his ULTIMATE goal maybe to return to the island, UNLESS it is just a big ruse to get near Desmond.

  522. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? [/quote]
    I’m not sure if they knew that Claire’s mother was in a coma for years or not. She had a miraculous recovery. Even so, if they claim that Claire gave birth, they would have another Elian Gonzalez on their hands. I’m still puzzled why they lied about Aaron’s age, but that’s probably not important. Just like the producers said the other people that survived the wreckage but were not O6er’s was not important.

  523. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229389"]Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.[/quote]
    I posted that in comment 419 and no one replied. What do you think?

  524. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229429"]I’m not sure if they knew that Claire’s mother was in a coma for years or not. She had a miraculous recovery. Even so, if they claim that Claire gave birth, they would have another Elian Gonzalez on their hands. I’m still puzzled why they lied about Aaron’s age, but that’s probably not important. Just like the producers said the other people that survived the wreckage but were not O6er’s was not important.[/quote]

    They had to lie about Aaron’s age because Kate’s status as a fugitive would mean that she couldn’t have been AS pregnant as Claire was or SOMEONE would have noticed! Claire was eight months pregnant when she got on that flight (Oceanic shouldn’t have let her fly! LOL). If KATE had been eight months pregnant, she would have SHOWN. The authorities overseeing her transfer from Australia to the US would have KNOWN. She had to be early enough in the pregnancy that she could have been “hiding” it.

    They couldn’t say that Kate was eight months pregnant, so “Kate’s” Aaron couldn’t have been born when the “real” Aaron was. The pop-ups put Aaron’s “real age,” as of the press-conference, at about eight weeks. This is only three weeks off what Kate was saying at the press conference (about five weeks), so the numbers are still a bit wacky (except that we may well have ruled out the accuracy of the pop-ups).

    Hopefully, we’ll see some footage of the conversations / arguments that took place on Penny’s boat which were revolving around the development of the lie. I would like that. I’d like to see the O6, plus Desmond, taking their first REAL shower, eating their first non-DHARMA food, enjoying air-conditioning and NOT living in terror and mortal danger 24/7.

    : ) P

  525. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="228635"][quote comment="228610"][quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
    Is she dead or alive[/quote]
    Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    You are prob. correct, can’t seem to find the transcript. I’ll have to listen again.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I listened again over the weekend. D&C didn’t specifically use the words “alive” or “not dead”, but from the way they describe her situation, it certainly sounds like she’s alive. They talk about “the real Harper”, use the word “corporeal” and mention that she’s with the rest of the Others whereve they may be. So my take is she is alive.

    If you choose to listen again, it’s towards the end of the podcast, maybe around the 18 or 19 minute mark?

  526. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="229423"][quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.[/quote]

    _____________________________________________________

    I think they wanted to protect Aaron from Widmore, or Ben and they knew the only way to do that is if one of them looked after him. if they said it was Claires then her mom would have probably been the legal gurdian of him. Plus yeah Kate probably got attached to him and found it hard to let go[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Those explanations seem reasonable. Another possibility is that they thought if they said the baby was Kate’s, it would make her a more sympathetic figure in the eyes of the authorities when it came time to apprehend and prosecute her. From “Eggtown”, it seemed like portions of their story were tailored to help Kate’s defense during her trial.

  527. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="229280"][quote comment="229097"][quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]

    I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.

    I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Charlie and Libby were near and dear to Hugo’s heart. Maybe during the lie discussion Hugo pushed for those two to pay homage. Still lost on Boone.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I’d read on another site the theory that Jack had a direct connection to the deaths of the 3 characters mentioned. With both Boone and Libby, he provided medical attention in an effort to save their lives, but ultimately failed. With Charlie, Jack was opposed to the idea of Charlie swimming down to the Looking Glass station. So for each of those 3 characters, Jack probably feels some level of guilt over their deaths.

  528. sector7 says:

    To re-enforce the lie. Boone was a swimmer, he might survive crashing in the water, so they better try to account for that. Charlie was famous — don’t want any crazed fans to be searching for him so let’s confirm his death. Libby? Maybe Penny knew of Libby. It’s obvious she was planted by someone — probably Widmore, so to confirm her death means someone will not be looking for her.

  529. Rita says:

    [quote comment="229410"][quote comment="229406"]
    I originally thought Ben got off the island and was doing things before appearing in the desert, but it looks like he turns the wheel and then gets right to work 10 months later.

    [/quote]

    ____________________________________
    First, I think Ben and the island went to 2 different places in space and time. Good point about the timeline after Ben arrives in Tunisia, though. When and how did he get the photo of the guy in CA? He has to be getting help from Others who are spread out throughout the world.[/quote]
    ************************************
    Agreed that Ben and the island went to separate locations. We don’t really know though how long between his arrival in Tunesia, and his arrival in Iraq (for the funeral). Could have been awhile maybe? Could he have perhaps gone to America between Tunesia and Iraq? Am I just assuming he went directly to Iraq?

  530. RGS says:

    Andrew, L4, Toe, and Sec, thanks for the responses in helping me get some further understanding. I’m satisfied with the soap opera surrounding Kate and Aaron, so I’ll leave it at that.

    L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.

  531. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="229573"][quote comment="228635"][quote comment="228610"][quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
    Is she dead or alive[/quote]
    Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    You are prob. correct, can’t seem to find the transcript. I’ll have to listen again.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I listened again over the weekend. D&C didn’t specifically use the words “alive” or “not dead”, but from the way they describe her situation, it certainly sounds like she’s alive. They talk about “the real Harper”, use the word “corporeal” and mention that she’s with the rest of the Others whereve they may be. So my take is she is alive.

    If you choose to listen again, it’s towards the end of the podcast, maybe around the 18 or 19 minute mark?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Thanks Toeknee. Since I am allowing myself to believe that some if not all of the others are whisperers, I’m leaving the door open that some of them are dead (Alpert,Harper?).

  532. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229592"]To re-enforce the lie. Boone was a swimmer, he might survive crashing in the water, so they better try to account for that. Charlie was famous — don’t want any crazed fans to be searching for him so let’s confirm his death. Libby? Maybe Penny knew of Libby. It’s obvious she was planted by someone — probably Widmore, so to confirm her death means someone will not be looking for her.[/quote]
    I like the reasoning behind most of the theories about why they chose those 3 people. However, I remember them saying that the characters were not important. I like to speculate also.
    Jack said Boone sufferred massive internal injuries and died shortly after. I first thought that they said Boone because he was a lifeguard and could have aided in the rescue, but then I watched the scene again. They could have said Libby because she had some medical knowledge. Who knows why they said Charlie? Maybe it was because of the AWFUL music he played. :)

  533. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229603"]
    L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.[/quote]
    Point taken. We just never saw him “recruit” like we have Alpert. How do they get on/off the island now that the sub is gone? Ah, yes, Desmond’s boat. Maybe that is why Ben said that to Sayid ( He used Desmond’s boat ), to explain to us, the viewer, that it wasn’t what they used but, as we know, the bearing.

  534. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229573"]I listened again over the weekend. D&C didn’t specifically use the words “alive” or “not dead”, but from the way they describe her situation, it certainly sounds like she’s alive. They talk about “the real Harper”, use the word “corporeal” and mention that she’s with the rest of the Others whereve they may be. So my take is she is alive.[/quote]

    Yeah, I have been thinking about that. A while ago, I ended up listening to the podcasts from the beginning (in reverse chronological order) and have determined that in more recent podcasts (specifically those still available on ABC’s website), they are MUCH more careful about they way they parse their words.

    Their avoidance of the words “alive” and “dead” MEAN something I think. Perhaps their joking about “the zombie season” is meaningful. We know, for example, that they said there was no time traveling – clearly there IS some kind of travel across the dimension of time, but perhaps they have a more closely defined definition of the term. Perhaps their definitions of alive, dead, and undead are different than the “average” definition.

    Maybe Alpert’s group and some of the Others ARE “undead,” which based on their words would mean that Harper is undead, which would tie in to Hammer’s whisper theory. It would also explain Captain Eyeliner’s apparent ability to avoid wrinkles.

    I caught a few minutes of some kind of zombie movie this weekend (I’m not one to enjoy those normally) and I saw some parallels to LOST (which is kind of scary all by itself).

    Sometimes… I wish I could be like my friends who watch this show, say, “Wow, that was awesome,” and then forget about it until the next episode is on.

    : ) P

  535. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="229603"]Andrew, L4, Toe, and Sec, thanks for the responses in helping me get some further understanding. I’m satisfied with the soap opera surrounding Kate and Aaron, so I’ll leave it at that.

    L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.[/quote]

    ——————————

    Also Tom visiting Michael in New York – he’s got a boyfriend! So it seemed pretty obvious that he’s visited NY before, probably often. The Others and Ben definitely went on and off at will, or at least at Jacob’s discretion.

  536. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229432"]
    They couldn’t say that Kate was eight months pregnant, so “Kate’s” Aaron couldn’t have been born when the “real” Aaron was. The pop-ups put Aaron’s “real age,” as of the press-conference, at about eight weeks. This is only three weeks off what Kate was saying at the press conference (about five weeks), so the numbers are still a bit wacky (except that we may well have ruled out the accuracy of the pop-up.[/quote]
    I have no idea so I will defer to the experts on the subject. If 3 weeks makes that much of a difference, then that really does make sense. Although I know in the movie KNOCKED UP, I think they said the girl’s sister didn’t show until 6 or 7 months. That’s the extent of my knowledge. :)

  537. sector7 says:

    Maybe Libby gets brought up on Pen’s boat and Desmond realizes she was the one who gave him his boat (the Elizabeth). Not to mention, Penny probably shared all of her knowledge regarding her father.

    I think S5 will reveal most of everything that is going on in order to set up conclusions for S6. Mittleworks Labs (or whatever it’s called) is probably the Others inland headquarters and I’m thinking we will see this next season. This is where all the files are compliled and kept of the losties. Ben would know who Nadia was from Sayid’s file.

    I think S5 will start with Daniel’s raft finding Jin in the water. They go back to shore and the new lost group — with Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Dan, Char, Miles, and any other red shirts is formed. Then the very bad things start to happen.

  538. Rita says:

    [quote comment="229663"]
    I think S5 will start with Daniel’s raft finding Jin in the water. They go back to shore and the new lost group — with Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Dan, Char, Miles, and any other red shirts is formed. Then the very bad things start to happen.[/quote]
    *************************
    Yes, my thoughts exactly. Was anyone on the raft with Daniel BESIDES red shirts?

  539. Clay says:

    I believe that Alpert might originally have come from the Black Pearl since he never ages and that the ship is the oldest form of transportation which made it to the Island. Wouldn’t it be great if they had a flashback of Richard being a pirate?

  540. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229661"][quote comment="229603"]Andrew, L4, Toe, and Sec, thanks for the responses in helping me get some further understanding. I’m satisfied with the soap opera surrounding Kate and Aaron, so I’ll leave it at that.

    L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.[/quote]

    ——————————

    Also Tom visiting Michael in New York – he’s got a boyfriend! So it seemed pretty obvious that he’s visited NY before, probably often. [/quote]
    Yes it was obvious Tom visited NY before but even he said it wasn’t often.

    TOM: Don’t make it to the mainland too often–

  541. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229682"]I believe that Alpert might originally have come from the Black Pearl since he never ages and that the ship is the oldest form of transportation which made it to the Island. Wouldn’t it be great if they had a flashback of Richard being a pirate?[/quote]
    You must have been watching USA this weekend. Jack Sparrow was after the Black Pearl. I have heard that theory before, Alpert being a pirate, that would be interesting.

  542. Clay says:

    [quote comment="229685"][quote comment="229682"]I believe that Alpert might originally have come from the Black Pearl since he never ages and that the ship is the oldest form of transportation which made it to the Island. Wouldn’t it be great if they had a flashback of Richard being a pirate?[/quote]
    You must have been watching USA this weekend. Jack Sparrow was after the Black Pearl. I have heard that theory before, Alpert being a pirate, that would be interesting.[/quote]

    Whoops sorry, meant the Black Rock, yeah I actually hate those Jack Sparrow movies!

  543. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229678"][quote comment="229663"]
    I think S5 will start with Daniel’s raft finding Jin in the water. They go back to shore and the new lost group — with Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Dan, Char, Miles, and any other red shirts is formed. Then the very bad things start to happen.[/quote]
    *************************
    Yes, my thoughts exactly. Was anyone on the raft with Daniel BESIDES red shirts?[/quote]
    ————–
    I dont think so. I was thinking that season 5 has to FB to more of the island’s past. The DI, Rousseau’s team ( if there was one ), Richard the Pirate, the four toed-statue, etc. At least I hope they do.

  544. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229431"][quote comment="229389"]Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.[/quote]
    I posted that in comment 419 and no one replied.

    What do you think?[/quote]
    ————-
    Now I am thinking he might have been able to walk. When the O6 mentioned that he visited them off the island, none of them said anything about the wheelchair. Did any of them know he was paralyzed pre-island? I realize that would have given away who was in the coffin but at least Hurley would have said “Dude, did you notice anything different about him. How did that happen?”

  545. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="229390"]well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .i would have been happier if it all ended right there.read most of the posts,mmmmm is all i can say about it.as most of you know ive watched since jacks eye, but …..i grow tired of the show …me thinks they re dragging it out …..???[/quote]
    —————

    Bah Humbug?

    Oh, come on…
    for me it’s just getting started;
    They have the game set up…
    now to answer all the questions and see if the Losties off island now can get back …and why do they HAVE to get back?
    Sun is going to be a big contender and we still have to flesh out Miles and Charlotte.
    Sawyer will hook up again with….?
    Alpert needs some splainin’ and the weird Others with him. More stations to discover?

    And then there’s Ben…by the way he didn’t just “beat up” those guys in the desert (as one wrote), he gave them the Big Sleep.
    But why was he photographing Sayid? Ben sure has taken his share of blows in the show…tough little weasel is he.

    So; Just getting started, me thinks.

  546. ANON2 says:

    I don’t know who keeps claiming that pregnant gals can’t fly. Below is an industry standard. SACs are airline staff, a.k.a. Special Assistance Coordinators, who work with customers who have identified themselves as having disabilities or unique needs.
    =====================
    Pregnant Women – Domestic Travel

    -> A medical certificate is required if travel is within four weeks of the delivery date in an uncomplicated pregnancy.

    -> Travel is not permitted when requested within seven days before or after the delivery date without a medical certificate. SAC clearance is required.

    Pregnant Women – International Travel

    -> Travel is not advised within 30 days of the due date, unless the passenger is examined by an obstetrician within 48 hours of the outbound departure and certified in writing as medically stable for flight.

    -> Travel within ten days of the due date on international travel must have SAC clearance.

  547. Lins says:

    [quote comment="229662"][quote comment="229432"]
    They couldn’t say that Kate was eight months pregnant, so “Kate’s” Aaron couldn’t have been born when the “real” Aaron was. The pop-ups put Aaron’s “real age,” as of the press-conference, at about eight weeks. This is only three weeks off what Kate was saying at the press conference (about five weeks), so the numbers are still a bit wacky (except that we may well have ruled out the accuracy of the pop-up.[/quote]
    I have no idea so I will defer to the experts on the subject. If 3 weeks makes that much of a difference, then that really does make sense. Although I know in the movie KNOCKED UP, I think they said the girl’s sister didn’t show until 6 or 7 months. That’s the extent of my knowledge. :)[/quote]

    ***************************
    It really just depends on how the mother is carrying the baby…with my son my stomach shot out real fast and everyone knew I was pregnant…now with my daughter I’m 7 months along and people still have to ask (and I’m not a heavy person which can make it even harder to tell). The size of the baby isn’t a great predictor of age either…my son was huge and everyone thought he looked older than he really was, but I have a friend who has an 8 month old who still wears size 3 month clothes. They should have been able to tell a difference developmentally between 5 week old and 8 week old Aaron though…but that could still be subjective because all babies develop at different rates…what I don’t get is that if CS’s funeral was supposed to be 10 months after the crash, why does baby Aaron look the same as he did at the press conference? Wouldn’t he be at least 6 or 7 months old by that time?

  548. ESB says:

    so, i thought the finale was pretty damn cool…a few things (and yes i have read MOST of the previous posts;). Disclaimer: The following are just my opinions:

    1-The gunfight between the others and Keamy and the mercs was cheesy and it kinda bummed me out…it was like they turned into a Charles Bronson/Chuck Norris movie for a second…but that is really my ONLY complaint…
    2-all the talk about Charlotte being Annie and Sun’s daughter being Michaels is confusing to me…while those things could turn out to be true (i guess;), i think people who think that are really reaching…there isn’t any concrete reasoning or evidence behind either and lots of things that go against them…in my opinion those theories are incorrect…
    3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy….some of you talk about him like he and the others are heroes…these are people who kidnapped children…locked people in cages…Ben shot Locke point blank, tried to kill him in cold blood…and it shouldn’t have taken him killing Keamy and then saying i don’t care about all the people who blew up on the boat to remind everyone he is not a “good-guy”…that being said, he is one of the best bad guys and ‘favorite-people-to-hate’ in the history of TV…
    4-the island disappearing was COOL!
    5-Locke being in the coffin was COOL and i am dying to know how that comes to be…
    6-i think Jinn is still alive…although i have no idea what will happen to him now…seems like he’sd be lost at sea with no island to swim to…
    7-Sun is a bad-a** and i can’t wait to find out more about Claire
    8-as a HUGE fan of the character, i thought it was AWESOME when Hurley moves his chess piece and says ‘Checkmate, Mr Eko…’ ;)i hope they bring him back in some way, either as a ghost, vision, flashback, whatever…

    anyways, can’t wait to watch the whole season again on DVD…Lost Rules!

  549. della says:

    In Season 1, Claire is traveling to the U.S, LA specifically, to meet with the adoptive parents for her baby. If they would have told everyone that it was her baby, then the baby surely would have gone to the adoptive couple.

    Wouldn’t it be interesting if those parents came out and questioned whether Aaron was really “their” baby?

  550. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229724"]
    3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
    [/quote]
    That depends on what is GOOD.
    I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?

  551. Lisa says:

    Hey all,
    What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.

    Any thoughts?

    Lisa

  552. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229735"]Hey all,
    What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.
    [/quote]
    She wasn’t telling the truth. She had an affair with the man she was originally set up on a date with before meeting Jin.

    http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jae_Lee

  553. ANON2 says:

    [quote comment="229727"]
    Wouldn’t it be interesting if those (adoptive) parents came out and questioned whether Aaron was really “their” baby?
    [/quote]
    better yet… what if Jack & Kate were the adoptive parents?… then the australian psychic realized that ‘was very bad’.

  554. Lisa says:

    [quote comment="229738"][quote comment="229735"]Hey all,
    What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.
    [/quote]
    She wasn’t telling the truth. She had an affair with the man she was originally set up on a date with before meeting Jin.

    http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jae_Lee%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks:) So do you think it could be his baby? Or do you think it is Jins? I am wondering if it matters to the story! I just thought it was a great catch to think it may be Michaels:)

  555. Lisa says:

    [quote comment="229738"][quote comment="229735"]Hey all,
    What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.
    [/quote]
    She wasn’t telling the truth. She had an affair with the man she was originally set up on a date with before meeting Jin.

    http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jae_Lee%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks:). I just tried to write back to you , but I did not see my post. So here goes again. Do you think Jin is the father? I thought people brought up a good point about Michael. What are your thoughts?

  556. Lisa says:

    Sorry that posted twice. I should be a little more patient..

  557. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
    3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
    [/quote]
    That depends on what is GOOD.
    I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]

    *******************************************

    i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…

  558. jaime says:

    [quote comment="228618"][quote comment="228616"]What did Sawyer whisper to Kate before jumping?[/quote]

    I think he told her about his daughter and asked her to keep an eye on her for him.[/quote]
    #####################
    This is what Doc Artz says the decoded whisper is
    “I have a daughter in Albuquerque. I need you to find her. Tell her I’m sorry.”

    The only thing was that they couldn’t quite hear it well enough to say if it was Albuquerque or Alabama but the consensus was Albuquerque

  559. Andrew says:

    [quote comment="229694"][quote comment="229431"][quote comment="229389"]Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.[/quote]
    I posted that in comment 419 and no one replied.

    What do you think?[/quote]
    ————-
    Now I am thinking he might have been able to walk. When the O6 mentioned that he visited them off the island, none of them said anything about the wheelchair. Did any of them know he was paralyzed pre-island? I realize that would have given away who was in the coffin but at least Hurley would have said “Dude, did you notice anything different about him. How did that happen?”[/quote]

    ——————————————
    I don’t Know the Island seems to let him walk remember in season 2 (i think) when John suddenly became paralyzed and then Boone died. If he was banished from the island or had to leave it then he probably can’t walk.
    If like Ben or Tom or Richard Alpert he was of the island on some kind of business like trying to convince the others to come back, then he probably would be able to walk. But if thats the case then why did he die. People only seem to die when the island lets them or wants them to.

  560. wally p says:

    [quote comment="229660"][quote comment="229573"][/quote]

    We know, for example, that they (D&C) said there was no time traveling – clearly there IS some kind of travel across the dimension of time, but perhaps they have a more closely defined definition of the term.

    : ) P[/quote]
    \
    Ah hah … did they really say there was no time travelling?

    Because even Ben said something along the lines of Time travelling bunny, right?

    Mis use and misunderstanding of island properties sounds more like it to me. So I’d say its safe to say that even Ben doesn’t really know too much about the power of that wheel…

  561. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229769"]Ah hah … did they really say there was no time travelling?

    Because even Ben said something along the lines of Time travelling bunny, right?

    Mis use and misunderstanding of island properties sounds more like it to me. So I’d say its safe to say that even Ben doesn’t really know too much about the power of that wheel…[/quote]

    They did say there was no time travel – but they were joking like it was a RIDICULOUS idea. Very MUCH like they were joking about the zombie season. They are very tricky fellows, so I now see that it likely that they are interpreting things very differently so that they CAN say those things to be misleading without being “dishonest” as it were.

    : ) P

  562. PJSander says:

    Regarding time travel:

    From podcast 11/08/2005, which was around just before Episode 206 (Abandoned) aired:

    Carlton Cuse: You’re not going to tell them about the time travel, are you?

    Damon Lindelof: No, no, I’m not going to, in fact, I’m going to go back in time and prevent you from having said that. [Laughs]

    : ) P

  563. Ger from Holland says:

    How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?

    I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.

    Which means Jack and the others have to go back to face whatever lie it is they are telling themselves… and die. Which would leave Aaron nowhere to go.

    Oh – and Whitmore may not be a bad guy.

    Not a perfect theory, though. For instance, it doesn’t explain why so many of the passengers of the flight seem to have been chosen or destined to get on that plane.

  564. Deangoodes says:

    It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.

  565. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229778"]How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?

    I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.

    Which means Jack and the others have to go back to face whatever lie it is they are telling themselves… and die. Which would leave Aaron nowhere to go.

    Oh – and Whitmore may not be a bad guy.

    Not a perfect theory, though. For instance, it doesn’t explain why so many of the passengers of the flight seem to have been chosen or destined to get on that plane.[/quote]

    ******************************************

    i agree…who says Widmore is the ‘bad guy’? the only things that support that theory are the fact that he didn’t like Desmond and the videotape of him beating one of ‘Ben’s people’…but he most certainly hasn’t done anything as bad or worse (that we know of) than some of the crap Ben and the Others have pulled…i personally think they are ALL evil but that’s not the point…the show loves to change things up to make you start rooting for people you used to hate…making heroes out of murderers, thieves & liars…gotta love it! ;)

  566. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229778"]How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?[/quote]

    Well, because it IS a fake planted by Widmore? LOL.

    No, I know I thought twice about it, and your idea did cross my mind. But we saw the photos of the empty graves, the bill of sale for the fake plane and Frank KNOWS the pilot wasn’t his friend, Seth.

    [quote comment="229778"]I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.[/quote]

    But if your theory is right, then it means that Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Boone, Shannon must have redeemed themselves. You can say Eko and possibly Boone did redeem themselves, but I am not sure you can say Shannon and Libby did. And what about Sawyer? The guy sacrificed himself for his friends (and has done a few other heroic things recently). If that doesn’t qualify as redeeming oneself, what the heck will?

    JMO,
    : ) P

  567. Deangoodes says:

    Also not mentioned so far was Kate’s reaction when she saw Sawyer come out of the jungle. Her eyes lit up (This makes it look like Sawyer is her true love, not Jack; and that hurts because I am a big fan of Jack and all he has done to help keep the Losties safe.)like firecrackers and then she came back to reality when Jack emerged from the jungle bleeding. She was definitely concerned over Jack’s health but her heart belongs to Sawyer.

    The funny line of the movie; Sawyer to Lapidus-Hey Kenny Rogers, what you trying to do there-pick a lock? That was a great nickname and line. Although I would have thought Sawyer would have been able to pick that lock instead of having to cut it with a hacksaw.

  568. CAG says:

    [quote comment="229752"][quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
    3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
    [/quote]
    That depends on what is GOOD.
    I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]

    *******************************************

    i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…[/quote]
    _________________________

    Ben isn’t selfless … he’s a spoiled brat! He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. He turns the wheel because he’s taking his ball and going home. He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”

    Bottom line: Ben = bad guy

  569. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229785"]Also not mentioned so far was Kate’s reaction when she saw Sawyer come out of the jungle. Her eyes lit up (This makes it look like Sawyer is her true love, not Jack; and that hurts because I am a big fan of Jack and all he has done to help keep the Losties safe.)like firecrackers and then she came back to reality when Jack emerged from the jungle bleeding. She was definitely concerned over Jack’s health but her heart belongs to Sawyer.

    The funny line of the movie; Sawyer to Lapidus-Hey Kenny Rogers, what you trying to do there-pick a lock? That was a great nickname and line. Although I would have thought Sawyer would have been able to pick that lock instead of having to cut it with a hacksaw.[/quote]

    ************************************

    i know i’ll probably get crucified for this but i think Jack is kinda lame…he’s arrogant, stuborn, blind to what is really going on on the island and acts like a petulant child….he defintely has done some super cool stuff in the past but pretty much every single decision he’s made since Naomi fell from the sky has been the wrong one…think about it…and now he’s some pathetic pill-popping drunk crying all the time about how they need to go back…he is a flawed-hero at best…just an opinion, feel free to curse my name, haha ;)

  570. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229786"][quote comment="229752"][quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
    3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
    [/quote]
    That depends on what is GOOD.
    I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]

    *******************************************

    i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…[/quote]
    _________________________

    Ben isn’t selfless … he’s a spoiled brat! He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. He turns the wheel because he’s taking his ball and going home. He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”

    Bottom line: Ben = bad guy[/quote]

    ******************
    amen…that’s what i was saying…;)

  571. Deangoodes says:

    ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.

  572. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]

    ***************************

    totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
    -Jack
    -Locke
    -Juliet
    -Michael
    -Charlie
    -Claire

    haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)

  573. Andrew says:

    [quote comment="229795"][quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]

    ***************************

    totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
    -Jack
    -Locke
    -Juliet
    -Michael
    -Charlie
    -Claire

    haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)[/quote

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    I know every season i like and dislike different people

    Originally i liked Jack and hated locke now its opposite
    Plus im starting to like Ben even though he is bad, he’s bad in a good way.
    I used to Hate Kate even though she was always sexy
    and I never liked Sawyer untill this season.
    I like Juliet always thought she was a good guy

  574. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229797"][quote comment="229795"][quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]

    ***************************

    totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
    -Jack
    -Locke
    -Juliet
    -Michael
    -Charlie
    -Claire

    haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)[/quote

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    I know every season i like and dislike different people

    Originally i liked Jack and hated locke now its opposite
    Plus im starting to like Ben even though he is bad, he’s bad in a good way.
    I used to Hate Kate even though she was always sexy
    and I never liked Sawyer untill this season.
    I like Juliet always thought she was a good guy[/quote]

    ******************************************
    -HATE Ben, haha…
    -i go back and forth with Locke and Jack…don’t like either right now…
    -i used to hate Juliet, now i like her…
    -i’ve always kinda liked Kate although she’s not as tough and cool now as she used to be…
    -i’ve always liked Sayid, Hurley and Sawyer…i know Sawyer was a major jack-a** for a long time but i’ve always thought he was SUPER entertaining and when the rubber met the road he usually did the right thing…

    bummer that the season is over…time for the ‘longwait’…

  575. Rita says:

    [quote comment="229790"][quote comment="229786"][quote comment="229752"][quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
    3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
    [/quote]
    That depends on what is GOOD.
    I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]

    *******************************************

    i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…[/quote]
    _________________________

    Ben isn’t selfless … he’s a spoiled brat! He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. He turns the wheel because he’s taking his ball and going home. He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”

    Bottom line: Ben = bad guy[/quote]

    ******************
    amen…that’s what i was saying…;)[/quote]
    *****************************
    While I agree, it has to be said: Ben sure seems to have a lot of power and authority OFF the island as well!

  576. Rita says:

    [quote comment="229805"][quote comment="229797"][quote comment="229795"][quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]

    ***************************

    totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
    -Jack
    -Locke
    -Juliet
    -Michael
    -Charlie
    -Claire

    haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)[/quote

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    I know every season i like and dislike different people

    Originally i liked Jack and hated locke now its opposite
    Plus im starting to like Ben even though he is bad, he’s bad in a good way.
    I used to Hate Kate even though she was always sexy
    and I never liked Sawyer untill this season.
    I like Juliet always thought she was a good guy[/quote]

    ******************************************
    -HATE Ben, haha…
    -i go back and forth with Locke and Jack…don’t like either right now…
    -i used to hate Juliet, now i like her…
    -i’ve always kinda liked Kate although she’s not as tough and cool now as she used to be…
    -i’ve always liked Sayid, Hurley and Sawyer…i know Sawyer was a major jack-a** for a long time but i’ve always thought he was SUPER entertaining and when the rubber met the road he usually did the right thing…

    bummer that the season is over…time for the ‘longwait’…[/quote]
    ************************
    Ha ha! Here’s my two cents:

    RESPECT, maybe even admire, Ben. Yes, he’s usually pretty bad, but you have to admit that he “always has a plan”.

    Used to hate Sawyer, but there is something honorable in him afterall.

    Frustrated with Kate. Needs to decide what (who?) she wants.

    Frustrated with Jack. Needs to get a grip on what he can and can’t do. Who really EXPECTED Jack to get them off the island?

    Frustrated with Locke. Needs to stop trying to be what he isn’t, and start accepting what he is.

    Like Juliet, Hurley, and Sayid. What you see is what you get. Same with Rose and Bernard.

    Used to hate (OK, strongly dislike) Jin. Now, I see him as one of the more noble characters.

    Can’t stand Michael and am glad he blew up. Bye bye! Jury is still out on Walt.

    Next season, everything will no doubt change again!

  577. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229752"]he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) [/quote]
    So by that logic Locke is also bad. He killed Naomi.
    [quote comment="229786"]
    Ben isn’t selfless [/quote]
    Please reread my text and then yours. I never said Ben was selfless. You state
    [quote comment="229786"] He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. [/quote]
    And your exactly right. He does not want to leave the island. But in a selfless ACT he does.
    I was just trying to say, originally, we really don’t know yet who is good or bad. Someone suggested Widmore may be good, but his goal was to kill everyone on the island.

    BEN: He changed the rules.

    I think the “torch the island” line was also evidence against Widmore being good. Faraday sure was worried when he heard about the secondary protocol.

    Point being the BAD guys always seem to change on the show and with 34 more episodes left, they will change again.

  578. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229786"] He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”
    [/quote]
    I disagree on that. From what we have seen, he has over-protected 2 things, the island and his daughter. So it’s not always “what Ben wants.”
    He didn’t care about the people on the boat because he wanted to kill the man that murdered his daughter. That was step 1 on his revenge warpath.
    While I agree, he stole Alex from an “insane woman”, ( can’t wait for that FB ) he still raised her as his own. Just as Kate is now raising Aaron as hers. Is Ben gonna steal him too?

  579. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.[/quote]
    ——
    I’d dispute that;
    Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
    I’m sure Jin made it off and we will see that he makes it back to the island. (my theory)
    By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
    Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
    Now Keamy; 200% bad. Hope they come up with more villains next season. But I think we will see one of the Losties is really a mole! Desmond I think.

  580. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229783"]

    Well, because it IS a fake planted by Widmore? LOL.

    No, I know I thought twice about it, and your idea did cross my mind. But we saw the photos of the empty graves, the bill of sale for the fake plane and Frank KNOWS the pilot wasn’t his friend, Seth. [/quote]
    After everything we have seen since MKJ, I have to agree with you. Especially last week, when Sun introduces herslf to Widmore, and he acknowledges Paik Industries. He may not have known that control of Paik Industries had changed hands because he hasn’t needed to plant fake planes or dig up graves in awhile. :)

    I like the little island too. I hope you don’t mind me appearing there when this island gets too far gone. What the hell happened to DocH? Did Ben need him also to get back to the island?

  581. CAG says:

    [quote comment="229821"][quote comment="229786"] He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”
    [/quote]
    I disagree on that. From what we have seen, he has over-protected 2 things, the island and his daughter. So it’s not always “what Ben wants.”
    He didn’t care about the people on the boat because he wanted to kill the man that murdered his daughter. That was step 1 on his revenge warpath.
    While I agree, he stole Alex from an “insane woman”, ( can’t wait for that FB ) he still raised her as his own. Just as Kate is now raising Aaron as hers. Is Ben gonna steal him too?[/quote]
    _________________________
    He protected the island to keep his power, just like his daughter … remember what he did to her boyfriend? Ben is an insane control freak … in my humble opinion :)

  582. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229822"].
    Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
    Now Keamy; 200% bad. Hope they come up with more villains next season. But I think we will see one of the Losties is really a mole! Desmond I think.[/quote]
    One of them has to be a mole. How else would Widmore know about the death of Alex? Maybe Desmond or Lapidus, but neither was there when Alex died. I think Jin is still alive also or at least Ben told Sun he was via Locke. Her visit to Widmore would explain her trying to find the island to search for Jin.
    Anyone notice the name of Penny’s boat? SEARCHER

  583. CAG says:

    I think it would be easier to try to figure out who’s good, most everyone on the island is bad, except Hurley, and maybe Rose, but she’s married to a dentist, and dentists are bad!

  584. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229826"] Ben is an insane control freak … in my humble opinion :)[/quote]
    I completely agree with you. IMO, he is also the best at being in control for what suits him. The island and his daughter. He always has a plan. :)
    [quote comment="229826"]
    He protected the island to keep his power, just like his daughter … remember what he did to her boyfriend? [/quote]
    OVER-protective, YES. Again, I agree with you, I was just debating a comment earlier that I din’t agree with, YET.
    :)

  585. CAG says:

    [quote comment="229821"]I disagree on that. From what we have seen, he has over-protected 2 things, the island and his daughter. So it’s not always “what Ben wants.”
    He didn’t care about the people on the boat because he wanted to kill the man that murdered his daughter. That was step 1 on his revenge warpath.
    While I agree, he stole Alex from an “insane woman”, ( can’t wait for that FB ) he still raised her as his own. Just as Kate is now raising Aaron as hers. Is Ben gonna steal him too?[/quote]
    ___________________
    Didn’t he try to do that already? (steal Aaron)

  586. Clay says:

    So what about Sun, good or bad? She can go either way in my book… P.S., I’ve always hated her character until the finale

  587. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229823"]I like the little island too. I hope you don’t mind me appearing there when this island gets too far gone. What the hell happened to DocH? Did Ben need him also to get back to the island?[/quote]

    You’re welcome anytime, L4E.

    : ) P

  588. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229830"]
    Thanks:). I just tried to write back to you , but I did not see my post. So here goes again. Do you think Jin is the father? I thought people brought up a good point about Michael. What are your thoughts?[/quote]
    I think Jin is the father, but honestly, it might not effect my OVERALL experience of the show. But if it is Michael, would he be like CS? I mean having 2 children with 2 different women from 2 different cultures. Maybe also even like Widmore, IN THAT SENSE( Penny and Libby )? And if Jin was the father, it would be a MIRACLE.

    Sometimes the post doesn’t appear to go through right away. It used to happen to me all the time. My browser only updates every 5 minutes. :)

  589. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229832"]
    Didn’t he try to do that already? (steal Aaron)[/quote]
    I can’t remember, of hand, if Ben has tried to kidnap Aaron or not. I remember Rousseaou trying to in Season 1. Ethan kidnapped Claire but not under Ben’s orders.
    At least that is what Juliet made us believe.

    JULIET: He kidnapped her, on his own. That was never the plan.

    Was their another time I can’t think of? Unless you are thinking he took her from Claire and left him to Sawyer.

  590. RGS says:

    [quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
    ——
    By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
    Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
    [/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    Overreacting? I admit I haven’t rewatched the episode yet, but I thought Sun was screaming and carrying on because she WANTED to go back for Jin, and then got upset that they didn’t go back to look for him.

    Widmore may not have denied responsibility for Alex’s death, but he certainly didn’t claim it either.

    IMHO, Ben is worse than Widmore, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my opinion changed.

  591. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.[/quote]
    They said Boone, Libby and Charlie were the ones who died because they know they are dead. They think (or know) that Claire is still alive back on the island. If she were ever to show up it would prove their whole story a lie if they said she died after the crash.

  592. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="228572"]Does anyone know how Clarie dies
    Why would her mother fly all the way to LA from Aus. just for a servcie did jake tell kate about Clare being his sister
    What took so long for kate to find saywers daughter[/quote]
    Kate was in the room when Claire’s mother told Jack that Claire was his sister.

  593. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="228403"]But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.

    Remember, Ben always has a plan![/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Although I beleive Ben still has a connection with the island he could have been refering to the )6 when talking to Sayid.

  594. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…

    I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]
    We are all sheep and we beleive what the media tells us to. Some may question things but the rest of the world just wants to think there are answers. Those people don’t post on Lost blogs.

  595. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="229859"]We are all sheep and we beleive what the media tells us to. Some may question things but the rest of the world just wants to think there are answers. Those people don’t post on Lost blogs.[/quote]

    LOL. Well said, Circus Mom. In the past, Americans have denounced propaganda in other countries, crying out so that citizens of communist countries would hear the truth. Today, we accept what we hear and read and see as the truth, despite the fact that our “news” is barely more than propaganda itself. All it takes is twenty minutes of watching BBC World News to realize that.

    What I don’t get is that the general public even *buys* our “news” when Anna-Nicole Smith, Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears and are top, if not leading, stories on so-called MAINSTREAM news.

    I see the breakdown of the line between information and entertainment beginning with the OJ trial.

    So yeah, the people “out there” blindly accept the story when six survivors appear and say they came from a plane at the bottom of the ocean. We LOST bloggers, though? We question EVERYTHING! LOL

    : ) P

  596. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229817"][quote comment="229752"]he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) [/quote]
    So by that logic Locke is also bad. He killed Naomi.
    [quote comment="229786"]
    Ben isn’t selfless [/quote]
    Please reread my text and then yours. I never said Ben was selfless. You state
    [quote comment="229786"] He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. [/quote]
    And your exactly right. He does not want to leave the island. But in a selfless ACT he does.
    I was just trying to say, originally, we really don’t know yet who is good or bad. Someone suggested Widmore may be good, but his goal was to kill everyone on the island.

    BEN: He changed the rules.

    I think the “torch the island” line was also evidence against Widmore being good. Faraday sure was worried when he heard about the secondary protocol.

    Point being the BAD guys always seem to change on the show and with 34 more episodes left, they will change again.[/quote]

    ******************************************

    haha, i get it…you are a ‘Ben-apologist’…;)it’s cool…
    and yes, by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)…or at the very least crazy…i mean he he stuck a knife in a persons back, for God’s sack…but at least with Locke it seemed out of character…with Ben it’s par for the course…he has lied about pretty much everything, whenever possible and has had no qualms about sacraficing anyone or killing them himself if he thinks it’s necessary…i can totally get liking his character and maybe even respecting his conviction…but in my opinion, he cannot be considered to be one of the ‘good-guys’ in any way, shape or form…all we have to go on is the actions we’ve seen the characters do and i think Ben’s past actions support my opinion…;)
    the only argument for him being okay, is that he’s trying to protect the island…but who says that protecting this island -where you have to admit that some jacked up stuff has happened- is a good thing? ;)

  597. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.[/quote]
    ——
    I’d dispute that;
    Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
    I’m sure Jin made it off and we will see that he makes it back to the island. (my theory)
    By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
    Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
    Now Keamy; 200% bad. Hope they come up with more villains next season. But I think we will see one of the Losties is really a mole! Desmond I think.[/quote]

    *********************************************

    i think they are all evil SOB’s, as i stated in an earlier post so i’m with you there for sure…except for one part….ben did let some of the survivors go, but he was never completely honest with any of them and there was always a catch…yeah, he’s a real stand up guy for sure, haha ;)

  598. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229839"][quote comment="229832"]
    Didn’t he try to do that already? (steal Aaron)[/quote]
    I can’t remember, of hand, if Ben has tried to kidnap Aaron or not. I remember Rousseaou trying to in Season 1.

    Ethan kidnapped Claire but not under Ben’s orders.
    At least that is what Juliet made us believe.

    JULIET: He kidnapped her, on his own. That was never the plan.

    Was their another time I can’t think of? Unless you are thinking he took her from Claire and left him to Sawyer.[/quote]

    *******************************************

    good point…;) but let’s not forget that Juliet hasn’t always been the most honest person on this show and for quite a while during season three her character and loyalties were questionable at best…so in my opinion her ‘testimony’ isn’t necessarily super reliable…

  599. ESB says:

    haha…one last post before i go to bed…it’s all good and i love debating the ‘moral value’ of certain characters with you all but i would like to suggest this:

    -Anyone who thinks the Others are good and cool people…go back and watch seasons 1, 2 and 3…yeah, i’d LOVE to be stranded on an island with those guys, haha ;)
    -Anyone who thinks Ben is a good and cool guy…just go back and watch the end of season 2 and season 3 (i won’t even get into all the shady crap he’s done this season)…yeah, i’d love to be stranded on an island with this creep too, haha ;)

    also, don’t get me wrong…i DO NOT think Widmore and/or Mr. Paik are nice people…i was only playing Devils’ advocate…

    peace out good people…LOST rules…;)

  600. Ger from Holland says:

    [quote comment="229778"]I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.[/quote]

    But if your theory is right, then it means that Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Boone, Shannon must have redeemed themselves. You can say Eko and possibly Boone did redeem themselves, but I am not sure you can say Shannon and Libby did. And what about Sawyer? The guy sacrificed himself for his friends (and has done a few other heroic things recently). If that doesn’t qualify as redeeming oneself, what the heck will?

    JMO,
    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="229783"][quote comment="229778"]How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?[/quote]

    Well, because it IS a fake planted by Widmore? LOL.

    No, I know I thought twice about it, and your idea did cross my mind. But we saw the photos of the empty graves, the bill of sale for the fake plane and Frank KNOWS the pilot wasn’t his friend, Seth.

    I understood that Seth was the pilot who took his place, hence the one who flew the plane that crashed… did I get something wrong?

    You are right about the redeeming of others… and how about the Others? Or those two who got buried alive? Maybe only a few people were chosen?

    Still, to ‘explain’ everything I would be loking for a simple answer, not a qualified one. This is television, they have to be able to explain it in one act break.

    The search goes on.

  601. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229937"][quote comment="229778"]I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.[/quote]

    But if your theory is right, then it means that Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Boone, Shannon must have redeemed themselves. You can say Eko and possibly Boone did redeem themselves, but I am not sure you can say Shannon and Libby did. And what about Sawyer? The guy sacrificed himself for his friends (and has done a few other heroic things recently). If that doesn’t qualify as redeeming oneself, what the heck will?

    ******************************************

    it’s a strecth but you could argue that Shannon redeemed herself by watching after Vincent and falling for Sayid, there by becomming a better and less-selfish person…like i said, it’s a stretch…;) Libby is easy tho…she kept Hurley from jumping off of a cliff in season two…that alone could be what redeemed her or what the island wanted her for…just a thought…;)

  602. Rita says:

    [quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.[/quote]
    ***********************************
    Well, the chopper DID go into the ocean without a place to land, and they lived. Michael’s “delay” saved Sun’s life, and Aaron and Desmond, and probably allowed Jin to live too, by giving him time to get to the deck, instead of blowing up in the bomb room with Michael. Red shirts, as usual, are on their own.

  603. ESB says:

    hey, just to stimulate conversation…i was wondering what everyone’s favorite season is? i ask because i’ve read alot of stuff online where people are saying this season (4) is their favorite, so now i’m curious…;)

    my personal favorite is 3 (followed closely by 1)…

  604. ESB says:

    [quote comment="229830"]I think it would be easier to try to figure out who’s good, most everyone on the island is bad, except Hurley, and maybe Rose, but she’s married to a dentist, and dentists are bad![/quote]

    **************************************

    this is true…especially if you go back to before they all crashed on the island…MOST of the characters were leading ‘morally-bankrupt’ (haha) lives…;)and they (the 06) don’t seem to be doing so well since getting rescued either…;)

  605. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="229896"]
    by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
    Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
    good point[/quote]
    What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.

    Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.

    I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.

  606. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="229847"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
    ——
    By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
    Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
    [/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    Overreacting? I admit I haven’t rewatched the episode yet, but I thought Sun was screaming and carrying on because she WANTED to go back for Jin, and then got upset that they didn’t go back to look for him.

    Widmore may not have denied responsibility for Alex’s death, but he certainly didn’t claim it either.

    IMHO, Ben is worse than Widmore, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my opinion changed.[/quote]
    ——-
    So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
    Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
    Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.

    Widmore NOT saying; I DIDN”T kill her or have her killed means one thing!
    And his plan B was to kill everyone on the Island via Keamy. Widmore hired a bloody maniac killer to do his bidding!
    Ben does not kill unless he has a reason (How many times does he have to tell you… John!). He also admits that emotion got the best of him when he killed Keamy.

    Can’t wait for the South Park parody; “Keamy’s (Kenny) Dead!

    I WANT the back story on Patchy!

  607. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230054"][quote comment="229896"]
    by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
    Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
    good point[/quote]
    What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.

    Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.

    I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.[/quote]

    ******************************************

    so, you’d like to wait until you’ve heard all the evidence at the end of season six before discussing your opinions? ;)

    i actually do read your whole posts, i just don’t always comment on every point you make in all of them…it’s all good…i thought the point of this blog (or any blog really) was to debate theories, put forth opinions and impressions and talk to other Lost fans…if you choose to drop out of this particular debate then cool…;) i never meant for it to be a big debate anyways, my original comment was just that IN MY OPINION, Ben showed his true colors once again in the finale AND that i thought it was interesting how some people seemed to think that Ben and the Others were the ‘good guys’ now…then you commented on my post…then some other people commented too…and we were talking about it…which was the whole point, to talk about the show…like i said, if you’re tired of the subject, cool…seems that we don’t agree some stuff and that’s cool too…;) we are all entitled to our opinions, right?

    ps-i’m stoked when people disagree with me on blogs…it what makes me re-think things…be a pretty boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else…;)

  608. ESB says:

    “Ethan kidnapped Claire but not under Ben’s orders.
    At least that is what Juliet made us believe.

    JULIET: He kidnapped her, on his own. That was never the plan.” Lost4Ever

    and this was what i was saying ‘good point’ too…that’s why i went to to give an opinion about Juliet…

    “but let’s not forget that Juliet hasn’t always been the most honest person on this show and for quite a while during season three her character and loyalties were questionable at best…so in my opinion her ‘testimony’ isn’t necessarily super reliable…” ESB

    sorry i didn’t clarify… ;)

  609. Rita says:

    [quote comment="230063"][quote comment="229847"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
    ——
    [/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^

    [/quote]
    ——-
    So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
    Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
    Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.

    [/quote]
    **************************
    I’m not sure that there is a RATIONAL sort of response to watching your husband die. Did you really expect her to sit down and calmly call down to Jin, “sorry honey, you’re going to die but you understand, we have ourselves to think of”? You’re not married, are you?

  610. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230063"][quote comment="229847"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
    ——
    By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
    Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
    [/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    Overreacting? I admit I haven’t rewatched the episode yet, but I thought Sun was screaming and carrying on because she WANTED to go back for Jin, and then got upset that they didn’t go back to look for him.

    Widmore may not have denied responsibility for Alex’s death, but he certainly didn’t claim it either.

    IMHO, Ben is worse than Widmore, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my opinion changed.[/quote]
    ——-
    So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
    Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
    Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.

    Widmore NOT saying; I DIDN”T kill her or have her killed means one thing!
    And his plan B was to kill everyone on the Island via Keamy. Widmore hired a bloody maniac killer to do his bidding!
    Ben does not kill unless he has a reason (How many times does he have to tell you… John!). He also admits that emotion got the best of him when he killed Keamy.

    Can’t wait for the South Park parody; “Keamy’s (Kenny) Dead!

    I WANT the back story on Patchy![/quote]

    ****************************************

    -my opinion of Sun’s reaction to everything was that she was hysterical and grief stricken and not ‘thinking’ logically…as a married person, it seemed like a pretty reasonable reaction to seeing your spouse apparently die and/or get left behind…
    -as for ‘Widmore vs. Ben’…i think it’s probably safe to say that they both have their own agendas and God help you if you get in their way…Neither are saints…;)
    -backstory on Patchy would be VERY cool, as would the back story on Rousseau…hopefully we’ll get both before it’s all done…

  611. Ma'halo says:

    Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
    Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
    Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
    ummm, let me guess….
    Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.

    Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.

  612. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="230063"]So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
    Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
    Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.
    [/quote]

    Oh Bobola,

    In the beginning, Sun was screaming to go WAIT for and then go BACK for Jin, and then she was screaming because she watched the freighter explode and her husband with it (for all we know). How is THAT over-reacting?

    I don’t think she was saying “screw you” to everyone else. I don’t think she had time to make the connection. She was thinking ONLY of what she was leaving and losing: her husband and the father of the baby she was carrying. It is a natural and normal response in a moment of fear.

    I don’t think that makes her a crazy lady.

    : ) P

  613. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230074"]Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
    Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
    Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
    ummm, let me guess….
    Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.

    Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.[/quote]

    ************************************

    are there characters who have gotten DUI’s or had other ‘issues’ that are still on the show?
    i can admire making a statement about drunk driving, but it’s a little disturbing that those things might be totally affecting the direction of the story and characters…i mean what if ‘Jack’ or ‘Ben’ or ‘Sun’ or ‘Locke’ get a DUI?

  614. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.
    ——
    I’d dispute that;
    Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    I don’t think Jack could have done a lot of swimming with his recent surgery. He was already barely standing.

    Aaron would not make it.

    Sun is five-six months pregnant- not the best time to “swim for your life”.

    Hurley not a very good swimmer.

  615. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="230074"]Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
    Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
    Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
    ummm, let me guess….
    Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.

    Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.[/quote]

    Well D&C *claim* that both Adewale and Michelle had only signed one year contracts and that the DUI’s played no part in Eko and Ana-Lucia’s deaths. I think that if that *IS* the case, they were BOTH pretty short-sighted to do it. “Hmmm… I am being invited to participate in one of the biggest and best shows on television ever, but eh, I think I will only do it for a year.”

    As for Cynthia’s character, she died, but has appeared in flashbacks. Whether or not Jin is dead, we are going to see him again, I am pretty sure – in flashbacks, as an apparition, or on the island alive. Besides, Daniel’s DUI was back in October, if they really wanted to kick him off the show for that, they wouldn’t have brought his character back after the WGA strike.

    So despite the cast’s apparent inability to hold their liquor, I don’t think their DUI’s have played too big a part in each character’s survival.

    JMO,
    : ) P

  616. anon says:

    [quote comment="230065"][quote comment="230054"][quote comment="229896"]
    by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
    Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
    good point[/quote]
    What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.

    Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.

    I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.[/quote]

    ******************************************

    so, you’d like to wait until you’ve heard all the evidence at the end of season six before discussing your opinions? ;)

    i actually do read your whole posts, i just don’t always comment on every point you make in all of them…it’s all good…i thought the point of this blog (or any blog really) was to debate theories, put forth opinions and impressions and talk to other Lost fans…if you choose to drop out of this particular debate then cool…;) i never meant for it to be a big debate anyways, my original comment was just that IN MY OPINION, Ben showed his true colors once again in the finale AND that i thought it was interesting how some people seemed to think that Ben and the Others were the ‘good guys’ now…then you commented on my post…then some other people commented too…and we were talking about it…which was the whole point, to talk about the show…like i said, if you’re tired of the subject, cool…seems that we don’t agree some stuff and that’s cool too…;) we are all entitled to our opinions, right?

    ps-i’m stoked when people disagree with me on blogs…it what makes me re-think things…be a pretty boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else…;)[/quote]
    ################
    Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.

  617. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230089"][quote comment="230065"][quote comment="230054"][quote comment="229896"]
    by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
    Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
    good point[/quote]
    What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.

    Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.

    I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.[/quote]

    ******************************************

    so, you’d like to wait until you’ve heard all the evidence at the end of season six before discussing your opinions? ;)

    i actually do read your whole posts, i just don’t always comment on every point you make in all of them…it’s all good…i thought the point of this blog (or any blog really) was to debate theories, put forth opinions and impressions and talk to other Lost fans…if you choose to drop out of this particular debate then cool…;) i never meant for it to be a big debate anyways, my original comment was just that IN MY OPINION, Ben showed his true colors once again in the finale AND that i thought it was interesting how some people seemed to think that Ben and the Others were the ‘good guys’ now…then you commented on my post…then some other people commented too…and we were talking about it…which was the whole point, to talk about the show…like i said, if you’re tired of the subject, cool…seems that we don’t agree some stuff and that’s cool too…;) we are all entitled to our opinions, right?

    ps-i’m stoked when people disagree with me on blogs…it what makes me re-think things…be a pretty boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else…;)[/quote]
    ################
    Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]

    ******************************

    haha, yeah, i’ve noticed…;) it’s all good tho…i love the show and love to debate so…no harm, no foul…;)

  618. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230089"]
    Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
    I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.

  619. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230101"]
    I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
    I also tend to get snippy when I have been drinking. Drunk-blogging is almost as bad as drunk-dialing.

  620. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230107"][quote comment="230101"]
    I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
    I also tend to get snippy when I have been drinking. Drunk-blogging is almost as bad as drunk-dialing.[/quote]

    **************************************

    haha, yeah, i try to avoid drunk-blogging, if at all possible…;)

    and i most certainly didn’t mean to ‘twist your words’ and if i did so, i sincerely apologize…

    like i said, it’s all good and no harm, no foul…i’m not here to have bad feelings and be upset or pissed off…if i wanted that i’d go back to the sports blogs…;)

  621. Bailey Loves Lost says:

    [quote comment="229836"][quote comment="229830"]
    Thanks:). I just tried to write back to you , but I did not see my post. So here goes again. Do you think Jin is the father? I thought people brought up a good point about Michael. What are your thoughts?[/quote]
    I think Jin is the father, but honestly, it might not effect my OVERALL experience of the show. But if it is Michael, would he be like CS? I mean having 2 children with 2 different women from 2 different cultures. Maybe also even like Widmore, IN THAT SENSE( Penny and Libby )? And if Jin was the father, it would be a MIRACLE.

    Sometimes the post doesn’t appear to go through right away. It used to happen to me all the time. My browser only updates every 5 minutes. :)[/quote]
    ****
    Libby’s Widmore’s daughter?? When was this?

  622. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230122"]
    Libby’s Widmore’s daughter?? When was this?[/quote]
    It was never stated only speculated on previous posts, hence the Maybe and the question mark. :)
    [quote comment="229836"] Maybe also even like Widmore, IN THAT SENSE( Penny and Libby )? [/quote]

  623. jaime says:

    [quote comment="230101"][quote comment="230089"]
    Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
    I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
    ########################

    I have always found you helpful. And i think we all get a little testy when it comes to “newbies” who don’t follow the rules. Shoot i still consider myself a newbie and on i’m on this site almost everyday :)

  624. Kathy says:

    on post #579 lost 4 ever asked id Ben was gonna steal Aaron? I totally think is something that could possibly be going on off-island, it would help explain Kate’s extreme paranoia about the baby.

  625. Deangoodes says:

    I don’t necessarily think there has to be a mole amongst the Losties. Couldn’t Widmore have gotten his information straight from Keamy? Isn’t it possible he has a way to communicate with the man that hired him?

  626. Rita says:

    [quote comment="230153"]on post #579 lost 4 ever asked id Ben was gonna steal Aaron? I totally think is something that could possibly be going on off-island, it would help explain Kate’s extreme paranoia about the baby.[/quote]
    ******************************
    In Kate’s “vision”, Claire was ADAMENT about NOT taking Aaron back to the island under any circumstances. Ben, however, is just adament that they ALL have to go back. After re-watching the Ben-at-the-funeral-home scene, it struck me that Ben is “doing it again” – he’s being manipulative and Jack is buying it. Think about it: When has been EVER been genuinely helpful? Why is he speaking in a sort of conspiritorial tone of voice, telling Jack “I have some ideas” for getting everyone else to go back to the island? I don’t know if he wants to steal Aaron, but he DEFINITELY has an agenda and can’t be trusted.

    Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.

  627. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="228743"][quote comment="228702"]Here’s just a thought that may be relevant to the timelines:

    Ben and Locke go to the Orchid. Ben starts filling it up with metal, to Locke’s dismay. Ben starts the machine, which blows a big hole in the wall. According to the video, the machine was built in close proximity to an anomaly that had been discovered (the wheel – although I suspect Dharma never found the actual wheel). If this had been done before, the hole would already be there. The wheel room was built in Jacob-fashion, ie the oil lamp and the old wooden ladders. Instead of entering a sequence in a computer (DI style), one had to turn a mechanical wheel.

    So, I’ll throw out the theory that the island has not been moved since at least the beginning of the DI, sometime in the early to mid-Seventies.[/quote]

    I think that is a great observation. I suspect that much of DI’s outwardly visible research was intended to distract the workers from the “real” research that was going on behind closed doors.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———-
    I thought the same thing about the island not moving before the whole DI experiment. I had a conversation with my brother, who is an avid watcher, and mentioned this. What he understood it as the island has moved and most recently. He thought the whole purple sky event we saw, after Ben turned the wheel, was the same event as Desmond turning the FAIL-SAFE key. Hence, when Desmond turned the key, he moved the island unknowingly. I am not sure what to think but we did see the same purple sky event.

  628. Deangoodes says:

    Maybe Keamy wrote that note so the Losties wouldn’t trust the Captain and the bad things the Captain might say about Keamy and his intentions….

  629. Rita says:

    [quote comment="230174"]Maybe Keamy wrote that note so the Losties wouldn’t trust the Captain and the bad things the Captain might say about Keamy and his intentions….[/quote]
    ******************************
    It’s not clear that the captain KNEW Keamy’s intentions before the gun incident.

  630. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230149"][quote comment="230101"][quote comment="230089"]
    Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
    I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
    ########################

    I have always found you helpful. And i think we all get a little testy when it comes to “newbies” who don’t follow the rules. Shoot i still consider myself a newbie and on i’m on this site almost everyday :)[/quote]
    :):):):):):):):)
    TY Jaime. I try to be helpful and I do get testy. So I guess ANON is right, but “quite often”, I don’t think so. I am not sure what ANON was talking about when he said “many many occasions”. He/she has 3 posts all year unless he/she is also ANON2, then maybe 10. Never the less, we are all entitled to our own opinion, even if we just lurk, then jump out of the shadows to put someone down. That little island is looking better and better all the time. :)

  631. Deangoodes says:

    Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.

  632. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]

    Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
    *************************************
    The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation!

  633. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230159"]I don’t necessarily think there has to be a mole amongst the Losties. Couldn’t Widmore have gotten his information straight from Keamy? Isn’t it possible he has a way to communicate with the man that hired him?[/quote]
    Good point. Maybe when Keamy got back to the freighter he contacted Widmore. It would have been nice if they showed that though, instead of making the viewer assume it.

  634. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]

    Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
    *************************************
    The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation![/quote]
    ———–
    I always took it that Michael slipped Des and Sayid the note. The reason being for what they were about to hear, the Captain telling them that Ben was responsible for the fake plane.

  635. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
    Completely agree. The fail-safe was built by Dharma and the wheel was there long before the good old DI. The sky changing as a result of both actions were the same for the viewer though. I never thought if it that way until my brother brought it up.

  636. CAG says:

    [quote comment="230074"]Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
    Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
    Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
    ummm, let me guess….
    Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.

    Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.[/quote]
    _______________________
    All these people got DUIs?!!? What bar did they hold auditions for this show?

  637. Rita says:

    [quote comment="230187"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
    Completely agree. The fail-safe was built by Dharma and the wheel was there long before the good old DI. The sky changing as a result of both actions were the same for the viewer though. I never thought if it that way until my brother brought it up.[/quote]
    *******************************
    Either way, a massive discharge of magnetic energy? If that’s what moved the island, then I would say it was moved twice (Desmond and Ben). It wasn’t until AFTER Desmond moved it (if that is what happened) that contact was able to be made from the outside. Maybe moved it back to it’s previously known location?

  638. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]

    [quote comment="230187"]Completely agree. The fail-safe was built by Dharma and the wheel was there long before the good old DI. The sky changing as a result of both actions were the same for the viewer though. I never thought if it that way until my brother brought it up.[/quote]

    Hmmm… good points.

    First, I think it is possible that the FDW *was* the invention of DI. They may have used that new-age elevator-time shifter thing to HIDE the FDW until it was necessary to use it. I really think that much of the open experimentation was a ruse behind which the REAL experiments were hidden.

    Second, I think the idea that the fail-safe time-shifted the island makes some sense, but we will have to see how it plays out. Perhaps that is what explains the time difference between the rocket and the watch, or the time shift between the freighter and the island. The time difference cannot be TOO great though, because there was a calendar on the freighter, and the Oceanic representative was talking about them finding a raft on day 103 and coming ashore on day 108, which can’t be TOO far off from “island” count.

    Very curious, all of it!

    : ) P

  639. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="230080"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.
    ——
    I’d dispute that;
    Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    I don’t think Jack could have done a lot of swimming with his recent surgery. He was already barely standing.

    Aaron would not make it.

    Sun is five-six months pregnant- not the best time to “swim for your life”.

    Hurley not a very good swimmer.[/quote]
    ————
    They were not that far from the island;
    Working together they could have done it…after all, they didn’t all drown when the Chopper went down, did they?
    They had vests and could have shared keeping Aaron afloat. Hurley’s filled with buoyant fat. If he’s too weak to tread water; well, Darwin at work.
    Sun has the motivation to keep going with her kid; seen plenty of very pregnant women do physically demanding things.
    Jack had the quick healing magic of the island to help him up until it went poof. Come on. he already traipsed across the island.

    And what sort of ridiculous comment is this;
    You aren’t married? So, married people can’t keep their cool in an emergency? Sun had her own unborn kid and another baby on the Chopper to worry about plus all the others…so bouncing off the walls of the chopper was…not a good survival technique for the group.
    And Sun cheated on her hubby before so please spare me the “married” vs not comments. Seems unkind. I never cheated on my wife but I won’t make any value judgments. But we may also find out later that Sun is the Mole!
    I’m sure plenty of other people would get hysterical in the same situation but Sun was so cool before that I didn’t expect of her. I take all bets that Jin is alive. But if I was Jin the instant I saw the Chopper lift off; BAM, I’d hit the water and swim like I was heading for Korea!
    He knew the Ship was gonna blow.
    So, don’t shoot the messenger.

  640. Clay says:

    [quote comment="230195"][quote comment="230080"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.
    ——
    I’d dispute that;
    Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    I don’t think Jack could have done a lot of swimming with his recent surgery. He was already barely standing.

    Aaron would not make it.

    Sun is five-six months pregnant- not the best time to “swim for your life”.

    Hurley not a very good swimmer.[/quote]
    ————
    They were not that far from the island;
    Working together they could have done it…after all, they didn’t all drown when the Chopper went down, did they?
    They had vests and could have shared keeping Aaron afloat. Hurley’s filled with buoyant fat. If he’s too weak to tread water; well, Darwin at work.
    Sun has the motivation to keep going with her kid; seen plenty of very pregnant women do physically demanding things.
    Jack had the quick healing magic of the island to help him up until it went poof. Come on. he already traipsed across the island.

    And what sort of ridiculous comment is this;
    You aren’t married? So, married people can’t keep their cool in an emergency? Sun had her own unborn kid and another baby on the Chopper to worry about plus all the others…so bouncing off the walls of the chopper was…not a good survival technique for the group.
    And Sun cheated on her hubby before so please spare me the “married” vs not comments. Seems unkind. I never cheated on my wife but I won’t make any value judgments. But we may also find out later that Sun is the Mole!
    I’m sure plenty of other people would get hysterical in the same situation but Sun was so cool before that I didn’t expect of her. I take all bets that Jin is alive. But if I was Jin the instant I saw the Chopper lift off; BAM, I’d hit the water and swim like I was heading for Korea!
    He knew the Ship was gonna blow.
    So, don’t shoot the messenger.[/quote]

    Let’s not forget that Michael keeping the bomb frozen allowed for the helicopter to land and take off. The helicopter got high enough to keep from moving with the Island. Michael allowed for the Oceanic Six to make it off the island and that’s how he redeemed himself.

  641. della says:

    [/quote]
    _________[/quote]
    ———-

    Let’s not forget that Michael keeping the bomb frozen allowed for the helicopter to land and take off. The helicopter got high enough to keep from moving with the Island. Michael allowed for the Oceanic Six to make it off the island and that’s how he redeemed himself.[/quote]

    This is a brilliant point! We were all trying to figure out how Michael blowing up with the ship after the eminent threat was removed made any sense.

    MICHAEL ALLOWED THE O6 TO LEAVE

    that makes so much sense now!

  642. leah says:

    [quote comment="229706"][quote comment="229390"]well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .i would have been happier if it all ended right there.read most of the posts,mmmmm is all i can say about it.as most of you know ive watched since jacks eye, but …..i grow tired of the show …me thinks they re dragging it out …..???[/quote]
    —————

    Bah Humbug?

    Oh, come on…
    for me it’s just getting started;
    They have the game set up…
    now to answer all the questions and see if the Losties off island now can get back …and why do they HAVE to get back?
    Sun is going to be a big contender and we still have to flesh out Miles and Charlotte.
    Sawyer will hook up again with….?
    Alpert needs some splainin’ and the weird Others with him. More stations to discover?

    And then there’s Ben…by the way he didn’t just “beat up” those guys in the desert (as one wrote), he gave them the Big Sleep.
    But why was he photographing Sayid? Ben sure has taken his share of blows in the show…tough little weasel is he.

    So; Just getting started, me thinks.[/quote]
    ///////////
    im sorry??
    are you new here ?

  643. leah says:

    [quote comment="228234"][quote comment="228202"]Regarding the metal stuff put in the little room that blew a hole in the wall – maybe it has to be done this way now since the swan? was imploded with the failsafe key.
    It may have needed a magnetic pull or push to get to the hole of the donkey wheel.
    Maybe

    [/quote]

    Looked to me like the Orchid was built over the donkey wheel. The idea was to run the orchid off of the intense power of the ancient donkey wheel device. I dont think that anything is supposed to blow a hole in the wall, but Ben knows it will work, and that he can get down to the original structure.

    This was a very cool scene.. I want to know more about the pre-Dharma history of this island. And being that I think some people are eternal, due to island powers (Richard) i hope we can get some flashbacks in s5 s6 to the original inhabitants, who would have constructed that donkey wheel and that four toed statue…[/quote]
    //////////////
    I think the donkey wheel is or was part of the black rock ??? didnt ships have one ? but men push them ,not donkeys because the ones donkeys pushed were bigger and had one arm not six arms ,ie… six sailors?

  644. leah says:

    [quote comment="230075"][quote comment="230063"]So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
    Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
    Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.
    [/quote]

    Oh Bobola,

    In the beginning, Sun was screaming to go WAIT for and then go BACK for Jin, and then she was screaming because she watched the freighter explode and her husband with it (for all we know). How is THAT over-reacting?

    I don’t think she was saying “screw you” to everyone else. I don’t think she had time to make the connection. She was thinking ONLY of what she was leaving and losing: her husband and the father of the baby she was carrying. It is a natural and normal response in a moment of fear.

    I don’t think that makes her a crazy lady.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I wonder …would any of them be so quick to jump in any airborne machine ?given the circumstances of how they arrived at the island?? they all calmly got in the helecopter on the island …not one of them said”what if it crashes” or when it was ditching said”oh no not again “!

  645. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
    Desmond couldn’t have moved the island because whoever moves the island can’t ever come back.

    But Ben always lies, except when he’s telling the truth.

  646. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]

    Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
    *************************************
    The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation![/quote]
    The captain probably died when Keamy shot him before returning to the island.

  647. Rita says:

    [quote comment="230252"][quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]

    Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
    *************************************
    The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation![/quote]
    The captain probably died when Keamy shot him before returning to the island.[/quote]
    **********************************
    Yes, and now that he is dead (along with most of the others on board), I guess we will never know what the note was all about.

  648. PJSander says:

    Has anyone received an email from that Octagon Global Recruiting, DHARMA or ABC? I registered that night and haven’t heard.

    : ) P

  649. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="230298"]Has anyone received an email from that Octagon Global Recruiting, DHARMA or ABC? I registered that night and haven’t heard.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I think they got to DocH. He just up and vanished.

  650. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230149"][quote comment="230101"][quote comment="230089"]
    Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
    I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
    ########################

    I have always found you helpful. And i think we all get a little testy when it comes to “newbies” who don’t follow the rules. Shoot i still consider myself a newbie and on i’m on this site almost everyday :)[/quote]

    ***************************************

    i think Lost4Ever is generally pretty helpful too…and he/she defintely knows the show…
    as for being a ‘newbie’, that is definitely true, but i do read all the previous posts and i do follow the rules…;) yesterday didn’t have anything to do with that, it was just a debate…;)

    so, i noticed that the transcript for the finale is on Lostpedia and i know this is a little off the subject so far today, but this probably my favorite exchange EVER between Locke and Jack…

    “JACK: (Chuckles) You threw a knife into the back of an unarmed woman. You led half of our people across the island and got most of them killed.

    LOCKE: Well, Jack, you put a gun to my head and you pulled the trigger. I was hoping we could let bygones be bygones. ”

    classic! i laughed out loud at that part during the show…;)

  651. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230251"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
    Desmond couldn’t have moved the island because whoever moves the island can’t ever come back.

    But Ben always lies, except when he’s telling the truth.[/quote]

    ***********************************

    If you believe the flash forwards, then we already know Ben lied about not being able to come back…since he’s telling Jack now that they all have to go back and I didn’t get the impression that he was planning on being excluded from that…and i can’t off the top of my head think of one time when Ben has been entirely truthful, haha ;)

  652. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230186"][quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]

    ———–
    I always took it that Michael slipped Des and Sayid the note. The reason being for what they were about to hear, the Captain telling them that Ben was responsible for the fake plane.[/quote]

    ****************************************

    i think this is probably the correct theory involving the note, since they never followed up on it…

  653. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]

    I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….

    So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.

  654. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="230298"]Has anyone received an email from that Octagon Global Recruiting, DHARMA or ABC? I registered that night and haven’t heard.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Nope.

  655. Rita says:

    [quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]

    I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….

    So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.[/quote]
    ***********************************
    Before he “returned” to the island, Desmond also did some “time traveling” after turning the fail-safe key. Might not be all that different than what happened to Ben, except that Ben was expecting it and knew what was happening. Desmond was able to “return” though, maybe Ben will too at some point.

  656. wally p says:

    [quote comment="230265"][quote comment="230252"][quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]

    Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]

    ************************************

    Michael wrote this note, because he believed it to be true. As he was informed by Ben. Seems like this happens all the time. You have to go on raw instincts here, and a lot of the time, those are the easiest to manipulate.

    I gotta couple things I was up late thinking about last night, sort of related. Like, why John Locke has been acting so sketchy lately. Easy answer… he’s being manipulated by Ben to think these things.
    The more I think about it, the more I realize that John Locke was put here for one purpose, and that was to make sure that Jack stayed on the island.
    John is struggling to keep this in the front of his mind, but he’s getting all warped up by Ben, who seems to have his own self satisfying solution to every single one of Lockes puzzles. Once Locke goes back to the real world in order to get Jack back, he’s killed, by Ben, so that Ben can warp this action even further.

    Good Whispers/Bad Whispers come into play. Everyone needs to go back to the island according to Ben… but not everyone needs to go back to the island, according to Claire. Do not bring him back, most likely means Aaron, but could possibly mean Ben… but it doesn’t mean Jack. (this leads my head into another two hour revelation and a beaut of an “Adam and Eve” vs. “Adoptive Couple in L.A” theory- that I will dispense later on…)

  657. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230348"][quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]

    I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….

    So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.[/quote]
    ***********************************
    Before he “returned” to the island, Desmond also did some “time traveling” after turning the fail-safe key. Might not be all that different than what happened to Ben, except that Ben was expecting it and knew what was happening. Desmond was able to “return” though, maybe Ben will too at some point.[/quote]

    *************************************

    in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)

  658. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="230354"]

    *************************************

    in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Yep, rules have changed…..

  659. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230364"][quote comment="230354"]

    *************************************

    in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Yep, rules have changed…..[/quote]

    ******************************************

    yes, indeed…

    for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)

  660. ANON2 says:

    J.Wood finally posted his LOST summary.
    It is for LOST PhD’s.
    The comments are good too.

    http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=3350#more-3350

  661. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230370"]J.Wood finally posted his LOST summary.
    It is for LOST PhD’s.
    The comments are good too.

    http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=3350#more-3350/quote

    ***************************

    very cool…thanks!

  662. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230370"]J.Wood finally posted his LOST summary.
    It is for LOST PhD’s.
    The comments are good too.

    http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=3350#more-3350/quote

    *******************************

    intersting part of this summary is that Jeremy Bentham is described as being an economist…;)

  663. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="230368"][quote comment="230364"][quote comment="230354"]

    *************************************

    in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Yep, rules have changed…..[/quote]

    ******************************************

    yes, indeed…

    for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    My first thought during that scene was that Ben was lying because HE wanted to leave the island to pursue Penny. In hind sight, Locke isn’t ready to handle the island alone, gets into trouble, leaves the island, dies, etc., etc. Now we Ben trying to fix his mistake by telling Jack to go back and take Locke with him…..

  664. wally p says:

    ..Ok, if you guys are gonna twist my arm, I’ll spill it now, but I dont want anybody considering this as a spoiler later on :)

    Some people have tossed out a few Adam and Eve theories on this thread, like, I’ve read that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard, or Walt and whoever. Personally, I never considered that Adam and Eve would be the corpses of two of our Losties until recently. But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone. Also the fact that he BELONGS on the island.

    Kate is not Eve though, because Kate is one half of the adoptive couple in LA, who is supposed to raise Aaron. We already know that Jack isn’t the other half there.

    Nope, Jack goes back, figures out what needs to be done, saves the day at the end, and lives happily ever after on the island, with his destined other half, a doctor, yep, I mean Juliet… who become the island saviors, and are placed in the cave upon their death, with the backgammon stones, to symbolize the fact that they came together, despite one being on the island in the name of good… and one being brought to the island in the name of evil.

    ok, so thats it. Someone may have already been on this tip, but I had to get it off my chest, so that I can hopefully stop having these LOST dreams at night. They are really starting to make me feel crazy!

  665. Hammer says:

    Good theory wally p. My only hang up is that it turns out that Jack and Kate ARE the adoptive couple, it just turns out that THEY shouldn’t be raising him off the island. I don’t know that Kate would be Eve, but I’m not ready for it to be Juliette either.

    But I like your thinking.

  666. ESB says:

    [quote comment="230373"][quote comment="230368"][quote comment="230364"][quote comment="230354"]

    *************************************

    in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Yep, rules have changed…..[/quote]

    ******************************************

    yes, indeed…

    for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    My first thought during that scene was that Ben was lying because HE wanted to leave the island to pursue Penny. In hind sight, Locke isn’t ready to handle the island alone, gets into trouble, leaves the island, dies, etc., etc. Now we Ben trying to fix his mistake by telling Jack to go back and take Locke with him…..[/quote]

    ***************************************

    i can buy that…Ben wants to leave to pursue ‘other goals’, knowing that he can come back under the ‘right circumstances’, but he lies to Locke about this because he wants Locke to believe that if you do this you can’t come back…he also probably wants Locke to believe that he’s out of the picture and Locke doesn’t need to worry about him anymore…it’s just another way of manipulating and controlling Locke…

  667. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="229390"]well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .

    …me thinks they re dragging it out …..???[/quote]

    ——-
    And on another post you asked if I’m new here…
    What difference would that make?
    Because I said the show is just “getting started” (I meant that figuratively).
    But, no I’m not “new”…
    But I wonder WHY you are here..since you seem unhappy about the show…and think it should have ended!

  668. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="230374"]..Ok, if you guys are gonna twist my arm, I’ll spill it now, but I dont want anybody considering this as a spoiler later on :)

    Some people have tossed out