Last year it was aptly called the “rattlesnake in the mailbox” (i.e. the moment you realized Jack’s flash was forward, not back, and that yes, they really did get off the Island) and this year it is being called “the frozen donkey wheel” – what exactly “it” is I am not sure, but we will find out tonight and it will undoubtedly be jaw-dropping. Season 4 ends tonight, with what should be two hours of “darkness, violence, and casualties” according to Michael Emerson. Savor the moment, because it’s off to hiatus-ville from here. They are re-airing Part 1 prior to the finale tonight, and it should contain some additional footage we did not see when it originally aired two weeks ago.
Spoiler Warning
ABC’s Official Show Description
“The face-off between the survivors and the freighter people continues, and the Oceanic Six find themselves closer to rescue, on the two-hour Season Finale!”
Questions that “should” be answered tonight:
- Who is in the coffin?
- What is the frozen donkey wheel?
- How do the Oceanic 6 ultimately escape and why just them?
- Is Locke really able to “move” the Island?
- Death toll – How many and who?
Episode Preview
Finale Sneak Peeks: Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3 | Sneak Peek 4
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh boyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
12 hours and counting…
12 hours yippee!! I have a MASSIVE 78, yes 78 hours to wait here in England!!!
Hope we get answers……….OMG can’t believe I am comment 3!!!
Almost time for…. Previous on Lost
Does anyone else find themselves dreaming about Lost? I had a dream the other night that I was carrying Aaron and running away from Smokey. Meanwhile, Sawyer yelled at me because I was wearing heals on the island and made me hide in the trees with Aaron until Smokey disappeared.
While I’ve always loved this show, I think I am officially addicted to Lost.
Wow, finally its Thursday!! I am so excited about 3 HOURS OF LOST TONIGHT that I can hardly stand it!! I think we may get some actual answers tonight! Here’s hoping anyway. And Bailey Loves Lost, No, can’t say I have actually DREAMED about LOST, but I sure think about it a lot! LAA meeting, anyone?
WOW!! I AM SOOOOOO EXCITED FOR TONIGHT! I CAN’T WAIT. THERE ARE SOOOOOO MANY QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED…..WHAT QUESTIONS DOES EVERYBODY WANT ANSWERED???
I personally want to know HOW they got off the island and what happened to the rest?
[quote comment="227472"]Almost time for…. Previous on Lost
Does anyone else find themselves dreaming about Lost? I had a dream the other night that I was carrying Aaron and running away from Smokey. Meanwhile, Sawyer yelled at me because I was wearing heals on the island and made me hide in the trees with Aaron until Smokey disappeared.
While I’ve always loved this show, I think I am officially addicted to Lost.[/quote]
I had two. Last week I had one that was very detailed, but I’ve since forgotten it. But it was straight up an episode of Lost in my dream. I guess it was probably the universe trying to course correct the fact that there was no show last thursday… Last night I had one that ended when a fire alarm went off across the street… I woke up in a flash… I had to convince myself that I was in my proper time line…
Yeah, I think I may have a bit of a problem…
A question I want answered is WHY the big cover up from the Oceanic Six. Also, who’s in the coffin? Is Claire actually dead or alive? Why does Jack want to go back to the island so badly?
Every time I realize it is THURSDAY and *THE* Thursday, my heart skips a beat… and then I get just a little bit anxious. I am afraid that I have built it up in my mind so much that no matter what, I will be disappointed.
I got that feeling a little bit at the end of “Ji Yeon” when I realized that it was the simultaneous FF and FB. But I wasn’t disappointed in the SHOW, just in the outcome. I don’t know.
As for who I want to die tonight, that seems too morbid even for television! But as I’ve said before, it doesn’t matter if a character dies, the actor could still work on the show! So even if there were a character I could manage without, and I think Michael would be it, we could still see a lot of Harold Perrineau in years to come.
: ) P
[quote comment="227515"]Every time I realize it is THURSDAY and *THE* Thursday, my heart skips a beat… and then I get just a little bit anxious. I am afraid that I have built it up in my mind so much that no matter what, I will be disappointed.
I got that feeling a little bit at the end of “Ji Yeon” when I realized that it was the simultaneous FF and FB. But I wasn’t disappointed in the SHOW, just in the outcome. I don’t know.
As for who I want to die tonight, that seems too morbid even for television! But as I’ve said before, it doesn’t matter if a character dies, the actor could still work on the show! So even if there were a character I could manage without, and I think Michael would be it, we could still see a lot of Harold Perrineau in years to come.
: ) P[/quote]
*********************************
PJ, I don’t think we need worry about being disappointed tonight. I think we are going to have our socks blown off (hopefully not with C4!). I agree that we could do without Michael, mostly since we have already gotten used to him being gone before, but I don’t really mind him staying either. I admit I don’t really like his character, but he does add something (not just sure WHAT exactly!).
From the questions above:
1. Who is in the coffin?
2. What is the frozen donkey wheel?
3. How do the Oceanic 6 ultimately escape and why just them?
4. Is Locke really able to “move” the Island?
5. Death toll – How many and who?
1. I originally believed it to be Locke, but now I am thinking Ben. He has many passports and therefore many names. Locke would also NEVER leave the island willingly.
2. I like MissKim’s idea, it could be what they use to “move” the island or transport off it.
3. At first it must be the chopper. The O6, minus Sun, were heading near it. I am not really sure what happens after that or why those 5, but the good doctor Jack has always been determined on rescue.
4. Can’t wait too see that or is that gonna be in season 5?
5. Numerous. Keamy and crew, all the extra’s, Michael, and maybe Desmond, but I don’t think Jin.
WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!
kkk, too excited. k
soo, i am thinking the teleportation doohicky that ben uses to get off island, which is a weird thing for Locke to be playing with. maybe its an allusion to 2001 Space Odyssey and being inside HAL’s brain?! UHG!!!!!! toooo much excitement, i’m going to take some nightquil so i can function today.
[quote comment="227523"]WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!
[/quote]
WHAT DOOR? I am outta here. Too many newbies gonna be talking about the previews.
[quote comment="227526"][quote comment="227523"]WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!
[/quote]
WHAT DOOR? I am outta here. Too many newbies gonna be talking about the previews.[/quote]
I’m with you, the finale is too big, see you guys at the start….
[quote comment="227492"]…..WHAT QUESTIONS DOES EVERYBODY WANT ANSWERED???[/quote]
1. whose balloon was it?
2. why do the others only come after you see the smoke in the sky?
3. what was it that killed the pilot?
4. if Vincent pees in the jungle alone, does he make any noise?
5. did Boone and Shannon ever do it?
Had to get those off my chest to ease the pain of waiting another 5 HOURS until showtime.
I’d like to know more about:
1. the whisperers
2. smokie
3. where’s Jacob? He was there a week ago but now he needs CS to speak for him?
4. the coffin. I have resigned myself that it will either be a predictable letdown OR is going to blow our minds!!! So I’m trying not to get too geared up about it.
See you tonight…same Lost channel…same Lost time (err,ummm,…I mean, ahh…)
Lol, no preview talk! Everytime I even try to speculate about a preview I am proven wrong. So I don’t pay attention to the previews anymore
I ran through some of the “Wish List” type responses from last week and compiled & paraphrased them.
Here are some that appear unanswered, or only partially answered.
- – - -
I want to know more about the Orchid?.
I want to know more about The Four-Toed Statue?
I want to know what ‘The Temple’ is?
I want to know what happens to the people who stay on the island?
I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
I want to know why Alpert does not age?
I want to know why THESE numbers?
I want to know what happens to Rose?
I want to know how Ben ended-up in Tunisia in Oct 2005?
I want to know who “they” are, when Hurley asked Ben about the purge?
I want to know if Hurley is still rich?
I want to know if Jin is really dead?
I want to see anything “Walt”?
I want to know why Libby was at the mental hospital with Hurley?
I want to know what happened to all of the children?
I want to know where the children from flight 815 are?
I want to know what happened to Claire and the ‘vision’ of her leaving?
I want to know why so many of the people on the plane are connected?
I want to know if Kate and Sawyer ever get together?
- – - -
I got two of my wants answered last week
I want to see the Others get back in to the mix?
I want to know if Ben has a plan for this situation?
[quote comment="227578"]I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
I want to know why Alpert does not age?[/quote]
The Alpert questions are also some of the more interesting. If we consider Ben’s FBs and the more recent Locke FBs, we realize that Alpert was trying to recruit Locke before he even met Ben. It may be that Ben was just preparing the way for Locke. This should also be viewed in the context of several conversations Ben had with Locke when Ben was imprisoned in the hatch, especially the “I came for you John,” comment.
Also consider that Abaddon(sp) put the walkabout idea into Locke’s head. This would seem to indicate that Alpert and Abaddon are on the same team, and not on Widmore’s.
I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something. Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that. I know in another post I said I thought she might be in the coffin, plausible but highly unlikely.
Also Miles. He has had some input/interaction but his character must really be able to do something cool on a island where so many people have died. I hope they let his character do his thing with some awesome results. I also think Jack would take an interest in some one like Miles.
@ Lost4eva and Hammer
Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.
[quote comment="227606"][quote comment="227578"]I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
I want to know why Alpert does not age?[/quote]
The Alpert questions are also some of the more interesting. If we consider Ben’s FBs and the more recent Locke FBs, we realize that Alpert was trying to recruit Locke before he even met Ben. It may be that Ben was just preparing the way for Locke. This should also be viewed in the context of several conversations Ben had with Locke when Ben was imprisoned in the hatch, especially the “I came for you John,” comment.
——————————————
Don’t forget about Ben shooting Locke in the bread basket with every intention of killing him.
[quote comment="227610"]
I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something.
Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that.
Also Miles. He has had some input/interaction but his character must really be able to do something cool on a island where so many people have died. I hope they let his character do his thing with some awesome results.
[/quote]
Let’s not forget pilot Frank too.
I am so total on-board with getting more ANSWERS from the ‘freighter tots’.
Though Naomi was not so exuberant about signing-up the fab-four… as I remember, Abaddon was fairly insistent that the four (M-D-F-C) be on the leading edge when it came to taking the island. They had them on the island ASAP as soon as Naomi made initial contact. Team Keamy (get Ben/2nd protocol) are almost like a secondary mission, an after-thought, from what I thought the scientist were going to do.
Yes… Charlotte needs tons more explaining. Miles = un-tapped resource. More ghost-busting… less restraining orders. Daniel may have reached his potential (Constant & Tempest) but… I’d like to see him reconstitute the Swan Hatch or Orchid. Frank = loose cannon, unknown loyalties, all-around good guy.
I can see Keamy now. “Get that twitchy little Faraday guy up here now (Orchid)… I want to see him work his magic on this thing!”
[quote comment="227606"][quote comment="227578"]I want to know backstory for Danielle, freighter tots & Richard Alpert?
I want to know why Alpert does not age?[/quote]
The Alpert questions are also some of the more interesting. If we consider Ben’s FBs and the more recent Locke FBs, we realize that Alpert was trying to recruit Locke before he even met Ben. It may be that Ben was just preparing the way for Locke. This should also be viewed in the context of several conversations Ben had with Locke when Ben was imprisoned in the hatch, especially the “I came for you John,” comment.
Also consider that Abaddon(sp) put the walkabout idea into Locke’s head. This would seem to indicate that Alpert and Abaddon are on the same team, and not on Widmore’s.[/quote]
**************************
They can’t be on the same team, Alpert knows about the survivors, Abbadon doesn’t … he tried to get Hugo to spill the beans. I think they are working against each other, but they both know that Locke will play an important role in the future of the island so they’re both angling for some influence.
[quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer
Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
*************************************
I would say that until the “no spoilers or discussion of episode previews” guideline for comments on this site is removed or changed, it really doesn’t matter what this blog considered doing/used to do before or after the transition of ownership. If you don’t wanna play by the rules go find yourself another sandbox.
http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20202804,00.html
jeff jensen has a nice “WHAT IF” review here… no spoilers, but it will bring personal FBs from the season. I would wait until 20 minutes before your 1st viewing tonight before visiting.
[quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer
Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
****************************************
I guess I’m not sure what the point you’re making is. I have only been here for 2 seasons, but I have gone back through the archives and read EVERYTHING that was done before I arrived. Actually, I find the comments to about the same: some periods of great debate/ some periods of general comments, but truly not much different over time. Just people excited about a great story, and wanting some place to join with others who feel the same. Personally, though I was not part of the original debate over discussing/not discussing previews, I like it this way just fine. I like being spoiler-free and just excited to see the story unfold. There is plenty to discuss without adding the previews, and we don’t have to wait that long before we can discuss the ACTUAL events (rather than the MIGHT BE events as they appear in the previews). Many of the same names are appearing now, that appeared in the earlier postings, so I guess not everyone feels the same way you do.
Is anyone getting a three line outline of the picture on their television? I have checked a few TVs and all of them are getting this. Thanks.
wow so libby, Charlie, and Boone were the other 3 survivors who “died” makes sense cause there actually dead.
Did anyone notice that in the interview of the oceanic 6, Jack states there were 8 of them…then they ask what happened to the other 3…then gives out the three names.
Then a lady asks another question about the six of them. That makes no sense at all. Mind Games…LOL
Oh crud. Is this supposed to go in last week’s comments??
There were 8 of them that survived the crash. Libby, Charlie, and Boone died so there are 5 left. Aaron is born which puts the total number of survivors at 6.
NEVER MIND!! I JUST GOT IT!! Sorry to sound so dumb LOL.
Five bank accounts = the five survivors. I bet they put the payoff money together and buy out Paik.
First time I’m reading/commenting here and I sure feel like this place fits Lost perfectly with all the questions about what should or should not be here and why. It’s pretty amusing from an outsider’s view–and I don’t mean that in a bad way.
Anywho,
I think Ben shot Locke because Ben didn’t want to be replaced by Locke, which would seem to be the intention of the island.
I am also pretty darn sure that a frozen donkey wheel is an old expression for the actual donkey wheels used in mills when they “froze” from rust/grit/whatever. Could it be so simple that the island actually has a giant rudder? That’s what I’m guessing since it would be totally in line with many sci-fi themes of a simple thing fixing/coming to the rescue.
What I want answered more than anything is how Desmond bounced in time. Could the request to move the island mean both geographicly and in time both? Which is contrary to my rudder theory….but still a good explanation for some of the bigger contradictions in the story line.
I am hoping against all odds that the finale is all about what is going on on the island. I love mysteries but this is a but much. They need to give us better clues and more info to keep us interested. I know a few people who have quit watching because of this.
I would love to see Jack and Kate gone from the story line. Jack at the very least because he’s become so boring of a character.
[quote comment="227652"]There were 8 of them that survived the crash. Libby, Charlie, and Boone died so there are 5 left. Aaron is born which puts the total number of survivors at 6.[/quote]
I was typing my comment when you were. I guess I was just LOOKING for a reason to be confused about something! I have been convinced and prepared to go completely crazy tonight. I know at the very end of the finale I am going to be soooo mad! I will then tell my husband how I totally hate this show and will never watch this crap again. Then he will tell me he is going to have a brain aneurysm. Then I will get on this blog until Sunday. LOL
Hey … what’s Aaron been eating for a day and a half since Claire wandered off? That baby should be screaming like crazy by now
Whats up losties…. Is every1 ready for tonight, i know i am….I wanna know what is happening to sayid and kate, and if alpert reveals any secrets to them…??
[quote comment="227654"]Five bank accounts = the five survivors. I bet they put the payoff money together and buy out Paik.[/quote]
OMG this exact thought crossed my mind today. I cut my date short (ahhh) to get home and watch !
Just putting in my final thoughts before the finale… I think that Jack is going to be responsible for the freighter blowing up. I think that Keamy is going to have Kate as a hostage. Jack will have a gun aimed at him, Keamy will tell Jack that he doesn’t want to do that… Jack won’t believe him and shoots him… BOOOOOOM!!!. Jack never forgives himself for this. I think that Jack is the “Frozen Donkey Wheel”. It defines his absolute stubbornness ie. “Stubborn as a Donkey” Its hard enough to get a donkey to do something that it doesn’t want to do, but if it is pulling something like a cart with a frozen wheel… it won’t be going anywhere. Kate is Jack’s Frozen Donkey wheel. His decisions are based on saving Kate over everything else. And it will cost him and a lot of other people dearly… Well Just a guess, we’ll see what happens in a few moments. See you after the finale!
O! M! G! IT”S ON!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!! YAY!!!!!!!!
WHO???
[quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer
Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.
[quote comment="227664"][quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer
Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.[/quote]
hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer.
—
[quote comment="227671"][quote comment="227664"][quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer
Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.[/quote]
hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer.
—[/quote]
This is an exciting nite for me and I love everyone who shares the love of Lost with me….but let’s not ruin that! LOL. I have to say though, I have been coming here since season 1 and as far as I can remember back…we don’t discuss spoilers or previews. That carried over with the new owner as well. I may be wrong…my mind isn’t quite right anymore after watching this show…but pretty sure they haven’t been discussed since at least season 2.
May I also say…..
I guess we were ALL wrong!!! Jeremy WHO? I love how this show answers questions that only bring up new ones! LOL? What is the monster? Oh just black smoke that flies around and kills people/security system. Who is in the coffin?? Oh yeah! Jeremy! Remember him?? Huh?
OH MY!!!
man i think u need to be on lsd to watch this show….lol….
OMG!!! Sun’s baby IS Michael’s!!!!!!!
Who is Jeremy again?
[quote comment="227678"]Who is Jeremy again?[/quote]
We don’t know yet. Still could be Locke maybe? Or Ben?
[quote comment="227677"]OMG!!! Sun’s baby IS Michael’s!!!!!!![/quote]
Are you kidding me? LOL
[quote comment="227678"]Who is Jeremy again?[/quote]
You know Jeremy!! Remember him from the past 4 seasons? LOL
i think jeremy is the dharma intuitive doctor on the video tapes….sawyer jumped off the chopper, what he say to kate???
Jeremy is like a passenger that gets of the island after the O6 and will need an alias as Sayid said no possibilty of any other survivors.
[quote comment="227671"]
—[/quote]
hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer.
++++++++++
Thanks Megalost.
The Whisperers are popping up all over the place. Hugo is seeing the regularly, Michael now….they are SOOOO part of the security system!!!
OMG….that was dramatic. I am going to cry.
Austin you better hang it up on smack talk to Hammer cuz it just won’t be tolerated. He knows whats up and runs an excellent blog.
BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?
This better pick up
Wow literally frozen donkey wheel!!!
[quote comment="227689"]Austin you better hang it up on smack talk to Hammer cuz it just won’t be tolerated. He knows whats up and runs an excellent blog.[/quote]
Thanks Kathy.
frozen donkey wheel haha. NICE!!!
[quote comment="227690"]BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?[/quote]
I think that’s why CS told him that he “could go now” … now he CAN die
[quote comment="227671"][quote comment="227664"][quote comment="227611"]@ Lost4eva and Hammer
Newbie? Maybe if you read this blog since before the transition of ownership, you would remember the heated discussions of the readership on whether previews should be discusses in entries (this was back when there were actual posts that discussed past episodes, lengthy, intelligent responses to theories, and actual discussions about these very previews. SO, for all of you newbies who haven’t been here long enough to remember such events on this blog, should think about how much better it can be, because this blog at one point was the destination for true theory banter.[/quote]
Check your facts and look in the archives…I’ve been here for YEARS…nice try.[/quote]
hi hammer i love u. ya austin, don’t u dare go after hammer.
—[/quote]
Hammer is Jacob !
WOW!!! Well there goes the island!!!
[quote comment="227695"][quote comment="227690"]BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?[/quote]
I think that’s why CS told him that he “could go now” … now he CAN die[/quote]
+++++++++++++
Yes, spot on.
[quote comment="227680"][quote comment="227677"]OMG!!! Sun’s baby IS Michael’s!!!!!!![/quote]
Are you kidding me? LOL
[quote comment="227678"]Who is Jeremy again?[/quote]
You know Jeremy!! Remember him from the past 4 seasons? LOL[/quote]
OMG yes I agree. It’s Michael’s !
Not looking good for desmond or lapidus
I love this show… penny n desmond!!!
Des is 100% getting back to the mainland, not sure about Frank !!!
Sun is the economist?
[quote comment="227701"]I love this show… penny n desmond!!![/quote]
it gave me chills when they saw each other
Frank was the pilot remember? Maybe he can sneak his way!
[quote comment="227703"]Sun is the economist?[/quote]
Definitely !
I kept reading that Penny would show up cause she shows up in every finale. Of course I was looking for the submarine!
OMG he is gonna open it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
happy beyond words about Des+Penny reunion
Hammer
Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.
++++++++++++++
Hey, I got one!
JOHN
WTF?!?!?!? Locke!?!?!?!
WTF!?!?!?! Locke?!?!?
Jeremy Bentham is John Locke! Woo Hoo! I’m so relived for AN answer!
Now how in the heck did the island let Locke die? Guess it doesn’t matter since it wants all of them back.
So it looks like we spend next season getting back on the island.
i said all along john locke was in the coffin!!
so john locke is jeremy bentham???
I hope this is a fake Lock body… a double. Just to get the Lost 6-ers to return. I am not going to let the ‘Lock is dead now’ fool me!!!
WTF!?!?! Locke!?!?!
Weekend at Bernie’s 3 once Locke gets back to the island…
Well, thus ends one of the best seasons of any TV show I’ve ever seen.
Congrats to those who said Locke was in the coffin. I was sure surprised.
i knew it! i knew it! it was john locke. but why jeremy bentham???
i knew it! i knew it! it was john locke. but why jeremy bentham???
Locke?! Ah! I’m so glad it was Ben, I have a soft spot for him…
But Penelope and Desmond’s touching reunion and Juliet’s new drinking habit aside, what was that ARG site again? The advertisement? Global Paragon Recruiting?
The website they gave on screen doesn’t seem to work…
[quote comment="227709"]Hammer
Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.
++++++++++++++
Hey, I got one![/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good call Hammer. Until that last scene I thought she was blaming Widmore, and was planning on taking her revenge. Not exactly sure why she should blame Jack – Ben or Widmore are more culpable, IMHO.
A*W*E*S*O*M*E
I’m speechless (for now)!
where the heck did the island go to?
Woo Hoo! An answer about the coffin!
[quote comment="227720"]Well, thus ends one of the best seasons of any TV show I’ve ever seen.
Congrats to those who said Locke was in the coffin. I was sure surprised.[/quote]
Hear, hear.
@ Locke, it makes sense now. The gang, especially Aaron is supposed to be on the island. Something happened (folks leaving?) that drove Locke to leave the island looking for help. I think Aaron has to get back. I also think that maybe Jack and Kate are my current Adam and Eve. Jack is supposed to be on the island too. I’m rambling from a Lost high.
ok, a lot of questions got answered, but I agree this episode was boring. I was ready to say I did not care about next season until Locke showed up in the coffin.
michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team
[quote comment="227724"][quote comment="227709"]Hammer
Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.
++++++++++++++
Hey, I got one![/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good call Hammer. Until that last scene I thought she was blaming Widmore, and was planning on taking her revenge. Not exactly sure why she should blame Jack – Ben or Widmore are more culpable, IMHO.[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Yeah, it seemed she is just pissed at ALL the bad decisions Jack pushed the group into and I got that feeling from part 1. In part 2/3 Jack kept yelling to take off, don’t go here, go there, etc. Her anger may be directed incorrectly, but it’s at Jack nontheless.
so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.
octagonglobalrecruiting.com
can’t wait to see what will be brewing there!
[quote comment="227538"][quote comment="227526"][quote comment="227523"]WHAT WAS THAT DOOR?! It was right when they were showing the preview to the non-repeat final. all white?!
[/quote]
WHAT DOOR? I am outta here. Too many newbies gonna be talking about the previews.[/quote]
I’m with you, the finale is too big, see you guys at the start….[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow! I’m glad I placed myself on a self-imposed exile from Lost-internet sites for the past week. I didn’t want to take the chance of getting any whiff of a spoiler. I can’t imagine watching this show after getting hints about what’s going to happen in an episode – it must really take away from the experience.
Jeremy Bentham= philosopher who came up with the idea for a prison called the Panopticon (the concept was that prisoners would be more easily controlled if they thought someone was always watching them; the idea of an invisible omniscient prison guard is most effective).
Anyone catch the ad for Octagon Global Recruiting? Is there another ARG in the works?
[quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.
This was a really great season, and is the best show ever to be on television.
Questions:
Why can the person who moves the island not return?
How did Locke/Bentham end up off of the island and dead?
What took place after Jack and company left that was so horrible?
Do Desmond and Lapitus have to return with the Oceanic 6?
[quote comment="227739"]This was a really great season, and is the best show ever to be on television.
Questions:
Why can the person who moves the island not return?
How did Locke/Bentham end up off of the island and dead?
What took place after Jack and company left that was so horrible?
Do Desmond and Lapitus have to return with the Oceanic 6?[/quote]
John didn’t end up off the island and dead he came “home” and then died. He met with all of the surivors.
[quote comment="227733"]so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.[/quote]
Maybe dead, but not gone….whisperers. Plus we have see how and why Locke left the island looking for help. His story is not over and looks like he will become like CS….a whisperer!
[quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
Actually that was a flashback for Jin coupled with a flash forward for Sun.
[quote comment="227738"][quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.[/quote]
that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF
[quote comment="227733"]so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.[/quote]
*********************************
I still have a feeling that Jin will NOT be dead afterall, though Sun (and everyone) thinks he is. He may yet turn up. Claire is dead for sure, as is Michael – since the island “released” him. I am wondering about Ben though. Is HE dead as well? He seemed alive in the flash forward in Tunesia (wearing the parka), but who waits in funeral parlors in the night just in case someone should show up and break in???? Did he die at the FDW, and THAT’S why “the one who moves the island can never come back”??? (At least not in live form)
[quote comment="227719"]Weekend at Bernie’s 3 once Locke gets back to the island…[/quote]
This really made me LOL!
BTW, there were plenty of whispers going on when Alpert’s team showed up. Please see Whisper Theory thread.
Crazy episode…as weird as it sounds, I was glad Ben didn’t die, or “not come back”…I almost took that as we wouldnt be seeing Ben anymore…I hope for the same from Locke and that he is not dead
One thing I noticed was that the whispers seem to appear when a death is about to occur or there is something with death related i.e. Michael on the ship as well as Hurley playing chess against Eko (a nice “appearance” from his character)…and I cannot back this up with every whispers occurrence but it seemed that way tonite…Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again
[quote comment="227610"]I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something. Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that.
[/quote]
Great call, Kathy. I was glad to see this development.
I hope Faraday is still alive and remains a regular character – I wonder what happened to that raft?
[quote comment="227743"][quote comment="227738"][quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.[/quote]
that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]
+++++++++++
This isn’t the right thread to debate. Please do a little research, it was confirmed by D&C that Jin’s was a FB and Sun’s was an FF.
Charlotte was born on the island???? Nobody can be born on the island…could she be Alpert’s long lost sister???
A great finale.
I miss Jin already.
And thank god we saw who was in the coffin. I don’t think i could handle having to read more speculation about who it was.
Sayid said that Bentham talked to him, Hurley talked to him, they all seemed to talk to him. Bentham = Locke, but HOW did he find everyone and how did he die? Did Sayid kill him and then tell Hurley it was an apparent suicide? How did Jack know it was him when he read the obit? Oh… because he talked to him too!!! I am so confused.
Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.
As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!!
Did anyone see the commercial that was for
‘octagonglobalresearch’ it was like a spoof
type thing that said “Paid for by ABC” in the
bottom left hand corner of the screen. I’ve
googled and googled but nothing has come up.
If someone else saw it, could you let me know
if I have the right info for searching for it?
Thank you! PS~LOVED this finale!
did anyone else have problems with their cable reception during the show?
omg there is so much stuff im still in shock from like how they killed jin
and did faraday and the others die as well?
why did christian shepard appear in front of micahael right before he died?
and i think that the second person sun blames jins death on is ben and that her and whitmore will tem up to kill him
and omg the end was amazing locke is in the coffin?!?!?
i never expected that at all!!!…BUT WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME
it was sooo cool how ben managed to move the island
omg theres so much to sayy about this
its the best finale=)
[quote comment="227655"]
I am also pretty darn sure that a frozen donkey wheel is an old expression for the actual donkey wheels used in mills when they “froze” from rust/grit/whatever. Could it be so simple that the island actually has a giant rudder? That’s what I’m guessing since it would be totally in line with many sci-fi themes of a simple thing fixing/coming to the rescue.
[/quote]
Great call, Kay. I was a bit disappointed to see that their secret code/term was actually what we saw on-screen.
[quote comment="227743"][quote comment="227738"][quote comment="227731"]michael is gone the island let him go…jin isnt dead we saw him in a flashforward earlier with the big panda…couldnt believe it was locke…feel bad for ben cause he cant go back to the island cause that was his home and all he knew…way to take one for the team[/quote]
Jin may still be alive, but he WAS NOT IN AN FF WITH A PANDA!!! That was an FB.
that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]
No … this one has been proven over and over.
Sun = FF
Jin = FB
That’s all I’ll say as I am against cruelty to animals, including dead horses.
Am I crazy or did it seem like Michael could be the father of Sun’s baby? It always seemed like something was going on between them through out the first two seasons… Isn’t Jin sterile??? I do not recall if they ever show what the baby looks like this season…
[quote comment="227752"]
Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.
As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
*******************************
You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????
The site was octagonglobalrecruiting.com. I had problems w/adobe player, so I wasn’t able to submit my e-mail. Oh well, it’s not like I’d be schlepping out to San Diego in July anyway.
[quote comment="227753"]Did anyone see the commercial that was for
‘octagonglobalresearch’ it was like a spoof
type thing that said “Paid for by ABC” in the
bottom left hand corner of the screen. I’ve
googled and googled but nothing has come up.
If someone else saw it, could you let me know
if I have the right info for searching for it?
Thank you! PS~LOVED this finale![/quote]
Go to http://www.octagonglobalresearch.com. I’m hoping it’s another summer diversion!!!
Ok, you can’t say that Jin is still alive because we saw him in a flashforward with a panda. We didn’t see him in a flashforward. That part of the episode wasn’t a flashforward, but a flash back.
Overall, I thought it was a great episode with good twists and turns. Also thought it was great how they tied this episode to last year’s finale.
Just a few points:
* Sun told her father last week that two people were responsible for her husband’s death. Does she blame Jack or Widmore? I can’t believe that she would be in cohoots (there is a good Southern word from a Southern boy, LOL) with Widmore in the future.
* For all of the conflict between Jack and Locke over the last three years, Jack did exactly what Locke told him to do and apparently drank the Koolaid that Locke was serving up to him before Locke’s untimely “suicide.”
* Widmore had to have had Locke killed.
* Don’t forget that Ben has already put Widmore on notice that he is going after Penny. That should be interesting over the next two seasons and also keep Desmond involved in the show. Can anyone else think of a Desmond angle now that he and Penny are together?
so much more to talk about…..
[quote comment="227751"]
Charlotte was born on the island???? Nobody can be born on the island…
[/quote]
Come on…. breathe deep… think about it. AARON was born on the island. You can be conceived on the island OR you can be squeezed out on the island. Just not both – conceived & squeezed.
[quote comment="227747"]BTW, there were plenty of whispers going on when Alpert’s team showed up. Please see Whisper Theory thread.[/quote]
Hammer – I didn’t see you mention this yet. But in Kate’s FF, when she had her dream, she answered the phone, and the closed-captioning said “Ghostly whispering on the phone”. After seeing Claire, it makes sense, but without the closed-captioning I wouldn’t have guessed that they were whispers coming over the phone.
Charlotte is Annie, Ben’s childhood friend on the island. Rita you are so right.
[quote comment="227744"][quote comment="227733"]so Gin, Micheal, and Locke are all dead
plus it looks like Claire since she was in that apperation or whatever it was. Wow 4 originals all gone.[/quote]
*********************************
I still have a feeling that Jin will NOT be dead afterall, though Sun (and everyone) thinks he is. He may yet turn up. Claire is dead for sure, as is Michael – since the island “released” him. I am wondering about Ben though. Is HE dead as well? He seemed alive in the flash forward in Tunesia (wearing the parka), but who waits in funeral parlors in the night just in case someone should show up and break in???? Did he die at the FDW, and THAT’S why “the one who moves the island can never come back”??? (At least not in live form)[/quote]
I said the same thing! What the heck was Ben doing there? I even thought HE might be dead. He looked a little pale….actually VERY pale. He needs a tan if he is alive LOL! Everything with the Oceanic six seems creepy. Claire, Ben, Hurley. Weird picture that hung in Kate’s house.
[quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.
As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
*******************************
You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++
Brilliant idea!!!!!!!!
[quote comment="227730"]ok, a lot of questions got answered, but I agree this episode was boring. [/quote]
Really? You didn’t have your TV tuned to NBC by mistake did you?
Anyone run that phone call to Kate backwards yet?
2 more things
- I wonder what happened to Farraday and his group of 815 survivors, i mean if they made it back to mainland woudnt the world know, and have questioned the Oceanic 6?
-Walt thinks his pops is alive he’s gonna go back!!
[quote comment="227764"][quote comment="227747"]BTW, there were plenty of whispers going on when Alpert’s team showed up. Please see Whisper Theory thread.[/quote]
Great catch, I don’t use the captioning.
[quote comment="227743"]that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]
Um, no.
SUN was in a FlashFORWARD, while simultaneously, Jin was in a FlashBACK. This isn’t just speculation, D&C confirmed it in a podcast.
: ) P
Nothing gets past the DocH. You are correct. maybe two hours of lost is just too much for me
did anyone get there email to work for the octagon registration??
[quote comment="227755"]
and omg the end was amazing locke is in the coffin?!?!?
i never expected that at all!!!…BUT WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME
[/quote]
Locke had to change his name – he was presumed to have died in the plane crash. Just like Ben has a bunch of fake passports for when he leaves the island, Locke probably has to do the same.
[quote comment="227730"]ok, a lot of questions got answered, but I agree this episode was boring. I was ready to say I did not care about next season until Locke showed up in the coffin.[/quote]
Boring? There was not one SINGLE second of this episode that was boring, in my opinion. I was really worried that I would be disappointed because of the built-up anticipation, but it was freekin amazing.
So, now… whether Ji Yeon is Jin’s or Michael’s, does SHE have to go back to the island?
: ) P
[quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.
As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
*******************************
You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]
I thought about that with Charlotte so it could be possible but I don’t know…I would think Ben would have been with Annie cause they had a childhood thing.
Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!!
[quote comment="227762"]Ok, you can’t say that Jin is still alive because we saw him in a flashforward with a panda. We didn’t see him in a flashforward. That part of the episode wasn’t a flashforward, but a flash back.
Overall, I thought it was a great episode with good twists and turns. Also thought it was great how they tied this episode to last year’s finale.
Just a few points:
* Sun told her father last week that two people were responsible for her husband’s death. Does she blame Jack or Widmore? I can’t believe that she would be in cohoots (there is a good Southern word from a Southern boy, LOL) with Widmore in the future.
* For all of the conflict between Jack and Locke over the last three years, Jack did exactly what Locke told him to do and apparently drank the Koolaid that Locke was serving up to him before Locke’s untimely “suicide.”
* Widmore had to have had Locke killed.
* Don’t forget that Ben has already put Widmore on notice that he is going after Penny. That should be interesting over the next two seasons and also keep Desmond involved in the show. Can anyone else think of a Desmond angle now that he and Penny are together?
so much more to talk about…..[/quote]
I don’t think the thing was with Jin and the panda and Sun giving birth was a complete flash forward. I think the parts with Jin was a flash back and the parts with Sun was a flash forward, unless I missed something.
[quote comment="227776"]did anyone get there email to work for the octagon registration??[/quote]
Yes, but not through IE, It worked through avant browser
The Los Angeles Lakers head to the NBA finals as they have just won the Western Conf. Finals over the San Antonia Spurs….
I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.
Remind me who annie is?
[quote comment="227779"][quote comment="227730"]
So, now… whether Ji Yeon is Jin’s or Michael’s, does SHE have to go back to the island?
: ) P[/quote]
*******************************
I think she would have to as well. And Aaron. What was with the “vision” of Claire demanding that Kate never take him back to the island? Ji Yeon and Aaron. Adam and Eve.
[quote comment="227773"][quote comment="227743"]that wasnt a flashback because sun was having her baby at the same time and it made it look like he was going to her but he really wasnt…he went to the executive guys hospital…she only has one kid and that was it FF FF FF[/quote]
Um, no.
SUN was in a FlashFORWARD, while simultaneously, Jin was in a FlashBACK. This isn’t just speculation, D&C confirmed it in a podcast.
: ) P[/quote]
Oops, sorry for commenting on your commented comment.
[quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.
As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
*******************************
You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, Rita. In my excitement I mistakenly said Aaron. Thanks for the correction!!
Charlotte as Annie? Wow! Did she ever see Ben? Is he why she wanted to stay? I think you might have hit that one one the head!
[quote comment="227770"]Anyone run that phone call to Kate backwards yet?[/quote]
LOL not yet, is that even possible??
[quote comment="227762"]
* Don’t forget that Ben has already put Widmore on notice that he is going after Penny. That should be interesting over the next two seasons and also keep Desmond involved in the show. Can anyone else think of a Desmond angle now that he and Penny are together?
[/quote]
When Jack said goodbye to Desmond, he said something like, “Don’t let him/them find you”. He may have been talking about Widmore. Remember too that Sun said to Widmore something like “You know we weren’t the only ones to get off the island.” So perhaps Widmore knows Desmond is still alive and is off the island, and Widmore trying to track down Desmond will be a plotline next season.
[quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
I agree completely… except that I would venture to add the first hour and say THREE of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.
LOST better not get shut out of the Emmys THIS year!
: ) P
[quote comment="227778"][quote comment="227755"]
and omg the end was amazing locke is in the coffin?!?!?
i never expected that at all!!!…BUT WHY DID HE CHANGE HIS NAME
[/quote]
Locke had to change his name – he was presumed to have died in the plane crash. Just like Ben has a bunch of fake passports for when he leaves the island, Locke probably has to do the same.[/quote]
Did Sun say something along the lines of Charles had been to the island too? If this is true…then who is Charles Whidmore REALLY?
[quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
============
ENCORE!!!
DocH -
Agree with you 100%. Fantastic episode and show.
And just to make sure…there is no way this is the last season is it…I keep hearing people say this and it makes me want to strangle myself!
[quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
Well put…..period.
Well we didn’t see Charlie. *pout*
So even though I have to have something to keep my hope going for the next SEVEN months, I admit that bringing him back in Season 5 or 6 would be “pushing it” as far as the audience accepting his return.
*I* won’t bring him up again, but I reserve the right to discuss him again should someone ELSE mention his name!
LOL
: ) P
[quote comment="227802"]Well we didn’t see Charlie. *pout*
So even though I have to have something to keep my hope going for the next SEVEN months, I admit that bringing him back in Season 5 or 6 would be “pushing it” as far as the audience accepting his return.
*I* won’t bring him up again, but I reserve the right to discuss him again should someone ELSE mention his name!
LOL
: ) P[/quote]
****************************
Well PJ, he DID get to be one of the 3 who didn’t live after initially making it out of the plane!! That’s something isn’t it?
dude i dont care if u like him or not but keamy was a bad ass
[quote comment="227780"]
Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.
[quote comment="227796"]And just to make sure…there is no way this is the last season is it…I keep hearing people say this and it makes me want to strangle myself![/quote]
I have the same question. How many more seasons? Is there only going to be 4 and a half seasons in the series? I think that is my last recollection, but I can’t find answers ANYWHERE.
But I want more!
Hey, the Octagon Global Recruiting site… they mention July 24 to 27 in San Diego. Is that when Comic-Con is?
Also, a little chuckle to share… my niece is trying to think of something she can do to help people and travel. The Peace Corps is too structured for her, so when I saw that commercial, I thought, “Ooh, I should give that web address to Katie.”
LOL
Good thing I checked it out first!
: ) P
[quote comment="227765"]Charlotte is Annie, Ben’s childhood friend on the island. Rita you are so right.[/quote]
=========
Thats right, i also think RED is ben’s friend from childhood in his fb, and that same girl could be aplerts sister also(aplert reminds me of peter pan)…, but no way is michael the father of sun’s baby, thats just stupid, go watch the episode they showed her baby, i didnt see ant black in there…
[quote comment="227754"]did anyone else have problems with their cable reception during the show?[/quote]
blame jack!
[quote comment="227792"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
I agree completely… except that I would venture to add the first hour and say THREE of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.
LOST better not get shut out of the Emmys THIS year!
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++
I want to nominate the entire scene when Ben and Locke were in the Orchid and Ben had absolutley no patience for the green horn Locke. I couldn’t get enough of the actor exchanges. Totally Emmy worthy.
Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?
[quote comment="227811"]Hey, the Octagon Global Recruiting site… they mention July 24 to 27 in San Diego. Is that when Comic-Con is?[/quote]
Replying to myself.
YUP!
http://www.comic-con.org/cci/
: ) P
[quote comment="227785"]Remind me who annie is?[/quote]
Annie was Ben’s childhood friend/sweetheart. In Ben’s FB episode from season 3 when we saw him arrive on the island as a young boy, he and Annie became very close.
What happened to Daniel and the castaway extras on the raft?
I felt terrible when
A. Sawyer jumped from the helicopter. My heart broke and then I saw the island… yeah! Jack made it sound like he CHOSE to stay behind… he chose to SACRIFICE!!!
B. Jin ran to the helicopter and Sun was screaming for him. Ouch!!! No wonder she is so bitter.
Did anyone else jump 2 feet into the air when Ben spoke to Jack at the funeral home??? Scared me half to death!!!
Not impressed with the Sawyer/Kate kiss. Not with Jack only feet away. Des/Penny… now THAT was a kiss!!!
ENJOYED seeing Sawyer walking onto the beach with NO shirt on! Ahhhh.
Oops… after midnight here… time for bed!
[quote comment="227759"][quote comment="227752"]
Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.
As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
*******************************
You mean Ji Yeon is Michael’s, right? And YES, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!
Also, does anyone else think that Charlotte could be our long lost Annie????[/quote]
I love Annie theories! Yes, I’m a sucker for that one, but if that’s true, why would she say she’s NEVER seen where she was born before?
[quote comment="227813"]no way is michael the father of sun’s baby, thats just stupid, go watch the episode they showed her baby, i didnt see ant black in there…[/quote]
I don’t REALLY think Michael is Ji Yeon’s father, but I leave the door open that it IS possible.
Well FWIW, many newborn babies are very pale. Some African-American newborns look Caucasian and their skin darkens over time. This is especially so with bi-racial babies. I am not speaking from a medical POV, just as someone who has seen a whole LOT of newborns!
: ) P
[quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
****************************
The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.
[quote comment="227822"][quote comment="227785"]Remind me who annie is?[/quote]
Annie was Ben’s childhood friend/sweetheart. In Ben’s FB episode from season 3 when we saw him arrive on the island as a young boy, he and Annie became very close.[/quote]
Thanks Toeknee! I remember… Thats awesome, she probably is Charlotte!
that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…
[quote comment="227788"]
Charlotte as Annie? Wow! Did she ever see Ben? Is he why she wanted to stay? I think you might have hit that one one the head![/quote]
Charlotte is way younger than Ben, there is no way she could be Annie. She could however be Annie’s daughter (?) This fits a lot better with the character ages. It would also make sense if Annie got off the island right before the purge if she had told her daughter about the island and maybe also about her friend Ben Linus.
[quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.
What happened from the Sayid/Hurley conversation to when the boat was sinking? I missed about 10 minutes because my daughter messed with the DVR. Any summaries are appreciated!
In case any of you missed this, or forgot about it, supposedly 3 different endings for this episode were filmed, and the other two will be shown on Good Morning America tomorrow. I’m sure they’ll eventually be on ABC.com too.
[quote comment="227827"]The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]
I completely agree that based on what we saw tonight, it LOOKS like it could be that way. But the only hesitation I have is that Sun was so overwhelmingly relieved that it was not Jae’s baby. I can’t imagine that she would feel that kind of relief only to worry that her baby could be Michael’s.
: ) P
[quote comment="227827"][quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
****************************
The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]
Wow I didn’t interpret that scene that way at all. I thought Micheal’s happiness came from the ultimate end of their “thing”. Because he knew he could never be with her happily ever after, he had a bomb to take care of, and he didn’t have the greatest faith in his plan.
[quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
Freezing the battery was just a way of stalling, or delaying the inevitable. They WERE trying to un-arm the bomb, they were just freezing the bomb to give them more time.
I have to say — I was very well pleased with this season finale. And as far as I’m concerned, Penny + Desmond = A very happy me. All I wanted to see was them get back together; they can do whatever they want with the show from now on, and I won’t care.
[quote comment="227830"]Charlotte is way younger than Ben, there is no way she could be Annie. She could however be Annie’s daughter (?)
This fits a lot better with the character ages. It would also make sense if Annie got off the island right before the purge if she had told her daughter about the island and maybe also about her friend Ben Linus.[/quote]
As much as I love the idea that Charlotte is Annie, I am not sure I agree it is the case. However, the age difference MAY be explained Charlotte she was somewhere “not aging” like Captain Eyeliner, oops, I mean Alpert.
: ) P
[quote comment="227829"]that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…[/quote]
im not trying to burst the sayid bad ass bubble but keamy would have killed him if he wasnt shot in the back cause he was gonna choke him to death
[quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.
Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.
Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.
Hey what about Hugo playing chess with Mr. Echo…, he said “checkmate”…any comments on that….
[quote comment="227839"][quote comment="227830"]Charlotte is way younger than Ben, there is no way she could be Annie. She could however be Annie’s daughter (?)
This fits a lot better with the character ages. It would also make sense if Annie got off the island right before the purge if she had told her daughter about the island and maybe also about her friend Ben Linus.[/quote]
As much as I love the idea that Charlotte is Annie, I am not sure I agree it is the case. However, the age difference MAY be explained Charlotte she was somewhere “not aging” like Captain Eyeliner, oops, I mean Alpert.
: ) P[/quote]
Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?
[quote comment="227811"]Hey, the Octagon Global Recruiting site… they mention July 24 to 27 in San Diego. Is that when Comic-Con is?
Also, a little chuckle to share… my niece is trying to think of something she can do to help people and travel. The Peace Corps is too structured for her, so when I saw that commercial, I thought, “Ooh, I should give that web address to Katie.”
LOL
Good thing I checked it out first!
: ) P[/quote]
Comic Con is indeed in San Diego on those dates. The “terms and conditions” on the Octagon site seemed to be related to sweepstakes entries, so I’m guessing this is not an ARG…:( Bummer.
[quote comment="227840"][quote comment="227829"]that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…[/quote]
im not trying to burst the sayid bad ass bubble but keamy would have killed him if he wasnt shot in the back cause he was gonna choke him to death[/quote]
================
Say vaughn, Who the F*** asked you??
[quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
Would you watch it here or there?
Would you watch it on an island with a boar?
[quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t catch that. Sometimes I think I have adult onset ADD.
[quote comment="227810"]I have the same question. How many more seasons? Is there only going to be 4 and a half seasons in the series? I think that is my last recollection, but I can’t find answers ANYWHERE.
But I want more![/quote]
There are two more seasons left. Originally, we were promised 48 episodes. Seasons 4, 5 and 6 were each going to be sixteen episodes long. Then the WGA strike interfered with Season 4, and we ended up with twelve episodes (which include the three hour finale).
The producers then said that the deficit of episodes would be made up to us in Seasons 5 and 6.
Then, S4E12 expanded to three hours. That gives us 12 episodes, but fourteen HOURS. If you count episodes, we have 36 left to go. If you count hours, we have 34 left to go.
D&C have not clarified if they are counting the final episode as one, two or three episodes with respect to the total 48.
But either way, we have two more seasons to look forward to. Season 5 is scheduled for early 2009.
HTH,
: ) P
[quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]
Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:
A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in
or
B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh
I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all
[quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.
Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.
Anyone wonder why all of the “visions” of dead people are telling the losties to back to the island except for Kate? I am.
[quote comment="227848"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
Would you watch it here or there?
Would you watch it on an island with a boar?[/quote]
===========
Ok Dr. Seuss, lol, where u been at…and the last one didnt rhyme…
[quote comment="227827"][quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
****************************
The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]
was that in part 1 of the finale?
[quote comment="227850"][quote comment="227810"]I have the same question. How many more seasons? Is there only going to be 4 and a half seasons in the series? I think that is my last recollection, but I can’t find answers ANYWHERE.
But I want more![/quote]
There are two more seasons left. Originally, we were promised 48 episodes. Seasons 4, 5 and 6 were each going to be sixteen episodes long. Then the WGA strike interfered with Season 4, and we ended up with twelve episodes (which include the three hour finale).
The producers then said that the deficit of episodes would be made up to us in Seasons 5 and 6.
Then, S4E12 expanded to three hours. That gives us 12 episodes, but fourteen HOURS. If you count episodes, we have 36 left to go. If you count hours, we have 34 left to go.
D&C have not clarified if they are counting the final episode as one, two or three episodes with respect to the total 48.
But either way, we have two more seasons to look forward to. Season 5 is scheduled for early 2009.
HTH,
: ) P[/quote]
————–
Thank you SO much. I haven’t been keeping up with Lostnews recently.
Hey Vaughn! Who might have been killed if he wasn’t shot in the back, because he was gonna be choked to death.
[quote comment="227807"]dude i dont care if u like him or not but keamy was a bad ass[/quote]
there is a big difference between bad ass and asshole….(sorry to offend)
[quote comment="227852"][quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.
Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.[/quote]
****************************
Yeah, you’re right, not officially confimed, so we will just have to wait and see (like with everything else we want to know!). Just curious Hammer, why DON’T you think she is Michael’s?
[quote comment="227854"][quote comment="227848"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
Would you watch it here or there?
Would you watch it on an island with a boar?[/quote]
===========
Ok Dr. Seuss, lol, where u been at…and the last one didnt rhyme…[/quote]
———————————
Are there even boars on the island?
JK
[quote comment="227844"]Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?[/quote]
Early in S4 (don’t know the episodes well enough to say which one), Ben is held captive and John is asking for answers. Ben rattles off Charlotte’s vital statistics, which include that she is 25 (which caused issues, given that she has a PhD in anthropology, not easy to get so young).
We know Ben was born in the early 60′s, making him somewhere in his early 40′s in 2004.
: ) P
[quote comment="227857"]Hey Vaughn! Who might have been killed if he wasn’t shot in the back, because he was gonna be choked to death.[/quote]
i was talking about keamy and sayid fighting and how keamy would have beat sayid if keamy was not shot in the back because he was choking sayid to death…and yes keamy was an asshole but u cant deny that the man wasnt taking care of his business although i think it was cool ben killed him
[quote comment="227860"][quote comment="227854"][quote comment="227848"][quote comment="227784"]I don’t care what you know -
I don’t care what you think -
I don’t care what you think you might know -
I don’t care what you know you might think…
That was easily two of the best produced, acted, written, directed, filmed – hours of TV ever presented.[/quote]
Would you watch it in a house with a mouse?
Would you watch it in a box with a fox?
Would you watch it here or there?
Would you watch it on an island with a boar?[/quote]
===========
Ok Dr. Seuss, lol, where u been at…and the last one didnt rhyme…[/quote]
———————————
Are there even boars on the island?
JK[/quote]
*******************************
Well there were season 1. That’s what they ate until the Dharma food drops were discovered.
[quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]
Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:
A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in
or
B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh
I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
———————————–
I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.
[quote comment="227865"][quote comment="227844"]Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?[/quote]
Early in S4 (don’t know the episodes well enough to say which one), Ben is held captive and John is asking for answers. Ben rattles off Charlotte’s vital statistics, which include that she is 25 (which caused issues, given that she has a PhD in anthropology, not easy to get so young).
We know Ben was born in the early 60′s, making him somewhere in his early 40′s in 2004.
: ) P[/quote]
———————————————–
Thanks!
My 2 cents on Charlotte/Annie..
when we first saw her she was searching for the island in the sahara desert/tunisia vicinity.. a similar locale to where ben was found wandering earlier this year.. the only way she could have known about that place was if she had previous knowledge of the island and/or was on the island.. and the sahara coast is probably one of the other locations for the island after it’s moved.. so she most likely is annie
[quote comment="227851"]
Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:
A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in
or
B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh
I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
Thanks for your insight – I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with pointing out mistakes or unrealistic events in this show. Like Pam, I know nothing about explosives or electricity, so I bought Desmond’s explanation. I know they occasionally have some unrealistic scenarios on this show for dramatic purposes, and unless I’m knowledgeable about the subject, I’ll shrug it off. However, I will be interested in seeing what Popular Mechanics has to say about those explosives.
[quote comment="227871"][
I might be misunderstanding your point. I don't understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn't have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]
The thing is, even if they COULD have disarmed the bomb in any way, they had to KNOW how to do it. They were TRYING to figure it out, but none of them had enough expertise to disarm the bomb in the time they had.
: ) P
[quote comment="227871"][quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]
Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:
A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in
or
B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh
I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
———————————–
I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]
Point A is a hypothetical. IF the bomb is going to explode without a power source, it would explode immediately after the battery was frozen, because there is no power being emmited. The frozen battery may as well be a rock.
Point B is that, if the bomb doesnt explode because the battery is frozen, then why can’t they just disconnect it.
[quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]
Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:
A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in
or
B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh
I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
COuldn’t the time difference play into that or no?
yall r making too much of the bomb….if the island didnt want the bomb to go off it would not have…but jacob showed up and the bomb exploded, so yes the island blew up the freighter cause it does not want anyone to leave….
Anyone want to take any guesses as to how many people, between now and midnight tomorrow night, post with “I don’t have time to read all the posts, but…” or something like it?
: ) P
[quote comment="227859"][quote comment="227852"][quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.
Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.[/quote]
****************************
Yeah, you’re right, not officially confimed, so we will just have to wait and see (like with everything else we want to know!). Just curious Hammer, why DON’T you think she is Michael’s?[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Like I say, I appreciate your thoughts on it. I just never really bought into the idea. I think it’s a case of you are interpreting the acting to support your idea. Just like how I did with Sun being pissed at Jack. So you could be totally correct.
[quote comment="227920"]Anyone want to take any guesses as to how many people, between now and midnight tomorrow night, post with “I don’t have time to read all the posts, but…” or something like it?
: ) P[/quote]
Vegas has the over/under at 12.
[quote comment="227748"]Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again[/quote]
Was that the same way that Desmond said goodbye to Jack in the flashback,when they were both running at the stadium?
: ) P
I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this….just too quiet.
[quote comment="227865"][quote comment="227844"]Is there a big age difference between Charlotte and Ben? Couldn’t she just look young and youthful for her age?[/quote]
Early in S4 (don’t know the episodes well enough to say which one), Ben is held captive and John is asking for answers. Ben rattles off Charlotte’s vital statistics, which include that she is 25 (which caused issues, given that she has a PhD in anthropology, not easy to get so young).
We know Ben was born in the early 60′s, making him somewhere in his early 40′s in 2004.
: ) P[/quote]
Actually I’m 25 and majored in archaeology in college, which is within the framework of the anthropology departments, and would be nearing the completion of my phD right now had I not gone a different route.. several friends have accomplished what they’re saying Charlotte has so I’d say her age is legit.. shes probably experienced some of that non-aging phenomenon Alpert somehow exhibits
[quote comment="227912"]
Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion.
[/quote]
Essentially correct, but the explosives scenario presented was BASICALLY correct. No errors.
[quote comment="227923"][quote comment="227748"]Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again[/quote]
Was that the same way that Desmond said goodbye to Jack in the flashback,when they were both running at the stadium?
: ) P[/quote]
+++++++++
Yep.
I don’t think that Micheal and Sun were that close. He ran into her with no shirt once, she told him the truth about speaking English, but that’s about it….I don’t know. I would think that the writers would just let us know. Plus she confided in Juliet that she had an affair, why wouldn’t she just tell her she had sex with Micheal too? I really need to see this look that he gave her.
Looks like they’re all going back. Widmore is so wealthy. Ben must have worked with him at one time. They either had a bet or a common experiment, or both. Widmore broke the rules by killing Ben’s daughter. Is the island under some kind of a dome? It’s studying behavior for one thing. Remember back in the beginning when all the mind games were going on? Kate in the cage? They’ve tested Jack and Sawyer a lot. They had their records. I also think Widmore would do anything to keep Penny away from her one true love. This could also be a dream or a fantasy – maybe Hurley’s. He’s saved them a bunch of times. Charlotte is connected to Ben somehow – and it is possible that Sun’s baby is Michael’s. It’s a tangled web of relationships and personal conflicts – just like life! Looks like someone decided to study it!
[quote comment="227924"]I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this….just too quiet.[/quote]
He may be in Arizona watching it late! Didn’t he do that not long ago or was that someone else?
Ugh….so Lost is turning into one big religious allegory. I was kinda hoping Reason (Jack) would dominate Faith (Locke). Oh well, still an entertaining and thought provoking show. Before you got to sleep tonight pray to the island for your soul to keep…..
[quote comment="227928"][quote comment="227912"]
Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion.
[/quote]
Essentially correct, but the explosives scenario presented was BASICALLY correct. No errors.[/quote]
Can you please tell me what number comment you quoted?
[quote comment="227936"][quote comment="227924"]I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this….just too quiet.[/quote]
He may be in Arizona watching it late! Didn’t he do that not long ago or was that someone else?[/quote]
++++++++++++
I think DocH was pulling our collective chain back then.
[quote]
I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this… just too quiet.
[/quote]
IT IS TOUGH to write a 12 page thesis when 95% of your questions (short-term) HAVE BEEN addressed. Frozen donkey wheel? – close but no cigarillo. Frozen = Parka (DUH!). Arm wound = broken FDW ladder (DUH!).
So the Octagon thing has me thinking… eight is one of the numbers. If the four toed statue was built as a monument to someone or something, it would have had eight toes in total.
Eight people “survived” the crash. Eight people were on the helicopter / life raft.
There are eight main characters “left” behind: Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles and Locke.
Btw, I noticed that in the last few episodes they’ve only shown Claire from the shoulders up. Couple that with the puffiness in her face, I would venture to guess that Emilie de Ravin is pregnant.
Just a thought.
: ) P
Okay, for the last time this season I have a bedtime for Bonzo ponder thought:
Sun: Why does she enlist CW to find the island instead of talking with the O6? She’s pissed at how it all went down. She blames Jack for all the circumstances that lead to Jin’s possible death. She knows CW managed to find the island once, so is she riding his back to find it again? Does she become the economist because of her obsession with getting revenge for Jin much like how Ben is paying for his need to get revenge for Alex?
The look on her face when she walked away from CW reminded my of everytime Ben turned away from someone he just conned into thinking something was their own idea……………………
[quote comment="227930"][quote comment="227923"][quote comment="227748"]Lastly, I liked the way Jack said goodbye to Desmond, leaving me to believe they will meet again[/quote]
Was that the same way that Desmond said goodbye to Jack in the flashback,when they were both running at the stadium?
: ) P[/quote]
+++++++++
Yep.[/quote]
****************************************
Yay. I made it! For some reason I thought Des told Jack “See you in another life, brotha.” Maybe I’m thinking of some one else.
[quote comment="227944"][quote]
I have a feeling good ole DocH is gonna have a 12 page thesis on this… just too quiet.
[/quote]
IT IS TOUGH to write a 12 page thesis when 95% of your questions (short-term) HAVE BEEN addressed. Frozen donkey wheel? – close but no cigarillo. Frozen = Parka (DUH!). Arm wound = broken FDW ladder (DUH!).[/quote]
++++++++++
Yeah, I was really pulling for the time line collision….maybe next season?
[quote]
I think DocH was pulling our collective chain back then.
[/quote]
Okay… thanks for the love. Career pilot – fly my own Baron. Four Homes. Fort Worth, Durango, Tucson and Sonoma. Three daughters, widower, getting ready to adopt a fourth girl – best friends’ only child… catch you all next season (maybe).
[quote comment="227964"][quote]
I think DocH was pulling our collective chain back then.
[/quote]
Okay… thanks for the love. Career pilot – fly my own Baron. Four Homes. Fort Worth, Durango, Tucson and Sonoma. Three daughters, widower, getting ready to adopt a fourth girl – best friends’ only child… catch you all next season (maybe).[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++
Good luck sir. I hope you aren’t checking out until next season, but if you are….I don’t like the “maybe”. I’ll be very bummed out if you don’t come back.
Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.
You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
Let’s say in real time 2004 he is say 38 years old. (and wears eyeliner). He realizes that the island will need aomone to save it so he goes back in time and recruits Ben. Zoom! Back to 2004. Ben can’t do it all. Alpert zooms back to recruit Locke. Locke’s not ready? Zoom to another time point and try again! OK now go and get Juliet.
All of it is happening at or close to the same time so of course Alpert doesn’t look much different! It is the same 2004 (or whatever time) Alpert in each scene!
Whew. Got that?
Ok other small points – people were asking whether Hugo gave Sun his fortune to buy out dad? No. We know Hugo have the money to HIS dad. When he saw the car and freaked his dad said “we got this for you before you gave us the money”
[quote comment="227974"]You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age. He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.[/quote]
Could be. Except I seem to remember in a flashback, Alpert was hanging around a pre-teen Ben quite a bit.
[quote comment="227974"]Ok other small points – people were asking whether Hugo gave Sun his fortune to buy out dad? No. We know Hugo have the money to HIS dad. When he saw the car and freaked his dad said “we got this for you before you gave us the money”[/quote]
Hurley won $156 million. The interest alone (at a meager 3% simple interest) would generate about $400,000 a month. He could have given his parents HALF the money (or even less) and still had enough to help Sun. I am not saying he DID, just that he could have.
: ) P
Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?
Didn’t Sun state that she received a big settlement from the airline and that was how she bought out a controlling interest in her father’s company?
[quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Well daddy03, YOU might not care about all those people (and Rose and Bernard), but I do think Jack cared.
: ) P
[quote comment="227910"][quote comment="227871"][
I might be misunderstanding your point. I don't understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn't have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]
The thing is, even if they COULD have disarmed the bomb in any way, they had to KNOW how to do it. They were TRYING to figure it out, but none of them had enough expertise to disarm the bomb in the time they had.
: ) P[/quote]
———————————————–
Ookay! Now I see your point.
[quote comment="227911"][quote comment="227871"][quote comment="227851"][quote comment="227841"][quote comment="227831"][quote comment="227817"]Assuming the liquid nitrogen really could stop the battery from functioning, why could they not then disconnect the battery and completely avoid the explosion?[/quote]
I don’t know ANYTHING about bombs and such, but I’ve seen movies with bombs where disconnection meant EXPLOSION.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Desmond explained that this was the case. The system was set us so if anyone tried to tamper with it in just about any possible way, it would explode.[/quote]
Thanks for the response (Pam, saw yours too). Here is the thing. Plastic explosives only explode if there is an electrical charge. So, if the method of providing that charge was removed, there would be no explosion. So, one of two scenarios occurs:
A) The Battery is not the only method of providing a charge, and thus the explosion occurs immediately after the remote device signals because, while the battery is disabled, the “secondary charge” kicks in
or
B) The Battery is the only method of providing a charge, and thus once the freezing method proves effective, disconnecting the charge becomes possible, and the plastic explosives become no more dangerous than Play-Doh
I know this is an upbeat site, and I dont want to bring down your enthusiasm for a well made show, but there are a lot of little things about the writting that irk me. Thats all[/quote]
———————————–
I might be misunderstanding your point. I don’t understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn’t have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]
Point A is a hypothetical. IF the bomb is going to explode without a power source, it would explode immediately after the battery was frozen, because there is no power being emmited. The frozen battery may as well be a rock.
Point B is that, if the bomb doesnt explode because the battery is frozen, then why can’t they just disconnect it.[/quote]
———————————————–
Thanks for the simpler language. It’s getting clearer and clearer. The nice thing about watching people on tv interact with bombs is that it’s fictional. In the end all that matters is if you were entertained then the show served it’s purpose.
I havn’t read so breifly,
John “Did he say what I think he said?”
Ben “If you mean time traveling bunnies, then yes!”
I thought Sun would go up against Widmore but…..
They ALL have to go back?
Four years trying to get off the island, two trying to return.
W O W
[quote comment="227992"]Didn’t Sun state that she received a big settlement from the airline and that was how she bought out a controlling interest in her father’s company?[/quote]
All the O6 did, apparently. However, there was a discussion after a previous episode that Paik Industries was very large company and that the settlement would like not have been enough to buy a controlling interest.
There was talk of Hurley giving Sun some of the lottery money.
Now, with “five banks” involved, it was suggested that it was the five adult O6′ers that contributed to Sun’s controlling interest.
: ) P
[quote comment="227993"][quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Well daddy03, YOU might not care about all those people (and Rose and Bernard), but I do think Jack cared.
: ) P[/quote]
———————————————–
Ditto!
Can someone please enlighten me on the following:
Why did the island choose to ‘release’ Michael at this particular moment and not before? How did that serve a greater purpose because it didn’t seem like he sacrificed his life to save anyone because everyone on the freighter except Sun and Desmond died anyway? Him freezing the battery may have bought them some time but, again, it only saveed Sun and Desmond.
I really really hope that Jin is not dead. It didn’t sadden me so much that Charlie died or that Locke’s dead, but I really want Jin and Sun to have a happy ending. Their few moments of reconciliation and redemption for Sun admitting that she had an affair didn’t really give much closure to the whole Sun-Jin story. Also, when CW asked Sun why she wanted to go back to the island, I’m hoping that its because she has some clue that Jin’s alive. Maybe Jeremy Bentham/Locke told her??
And how come the island let Locke die?? He must not be the chosen one, or, like the island stopped being happy with Ben, it stopped being happy with Locke.
And if Aaron is the chosen one, why does Claire not want him to come back?
I also think that the dead people, like Charlie, Echo etc, are themselves. They’re not the island using their bodies. Otherwise, why would Claire show so much concern for Aaron if that wasn’t her in Kate’s dream. Or maybe she’s not dead?
Okey..lotsa questions!! Greatly appreciate any thoughts!
Whoa, dude!!! How will we all make it until January??? Sigh….
Ponderings:
1. Well, apparently Michael was right when he said he was there on the frieghter to die.
2. Ji Yeon is Jin’s. She looks just like Jin. I think Sun had just had a fight with Jin when she ran into Michael in the jungle. There was no love scene between them cuz Vincent interrupted them before they kissed. Considering Michael’s constant freak outs about Walt, Michael would have totally freaked out if he knew Sun was pregnant with his child. Sun just told Michael she was pregnant because he knew she and Jin were having big problems when he was still on the island. Sun just wanted Michael to know that she and Jin are happy and pregnant now.
3. WHAT ABOUT VINCENT??? : (
4. Alpert, Locke, CS Lewis connection?
CSLewis “Red”—-wild thought—-she’s Locke’s baby sis. Emily (Locke’s mom—very red!) had Locke when she was a teen, right? Therefore, she could’ve still had another baby much later—-CS Lewis. Maybe by Alpert since he came to see baby Locke, doesn’t seem to age, and maybe later took interest in Locke’s mom. Remember, Alpert told Locke, “Welcome home.”
5. Why did the island let Locke die? The “apparent suicide” totally has to be cover up of the real cause of his death. Did Ben kill him? Did Widmore kill him? Obviously the island is not done with Jack. Hmmm…well, if the island still needs Locke, why isn’t he “here, but not here” like Charlie?
6. What bad things are happening on the island? Alpert up to no good?
7. Wow, what’s up with Sun? Femme fatale or what? It will be interesting to see how her role will play out. I think Sun blames Ben or Widmore as the second person for Jin’s death, not Jack. I could totally see her being vengeful towards Ben, but not Jack. Is she going after Ben, or is she setting a trap for Widmore?
8. Did Sun look pregnant for the second time when she met with Widmore? Hard to tell with her trench coat, but I think so. She was talking to Ji Yeon on the phone, so it would be baby number 2 she’s pregnant with. Hurley, Jr.? Jin must truly be dead for Sun to transform into this femme fatale. Or maybe not.
9. Penny, keep running! But with Des now, of course.
10. Whatever Sawyer told Kate on the chopper was the errand she was running for him.
11. Night, night!
So Charlotte and Miles have been to the island before right? Were they raised on the island? Could Miles be the son of the instructor on the Dharma Initiative videos?
I have thoughts on Sun and Widmore, but it reads like a messy, un-researched term paper that deserves a “D”. What I need is a peer-review…well, here is the rough draft:
Sun
When she talked to Widmore in London I think her plan was to lay the ground work of a sort of business/blackmail relationship with him. She wants him to come to her the next time they meet, that’s why she gave him her business card which opens possible, but not mandatory interactions in the future. If she lets him, and if she plays him right, Widmore will come to Sun. This I hope, is Sun’s plan to get just close enough to Widmore to get her revenge. When she was talking to him face to face I saw a face of a practiced business woman with a plan. I think after watching her love (Jin that is, her husband, her baby’s father, she loves him) probably die on the freighter (I have a feeling the producers will clarify that Jin died on the freighter-you know there will be questions asked for their podcast) Sun gained something from her life on the island that empowers her. Her whole life was lived as a subordinate daughter and wife until she crashed onto an island. I think her covert flirting with Micheal (they shared great chemistry) and her experience of having to actually work and fight to survive gave her mental strength, diplomatic skill, and personal identity. Sun is a new woman.
Now, with a love to grieve, a daughter to raise Sun has a new life, and a new self to direct. I think, I hope that this new woman is planning to make Widmore pay…to get revenge.
*Now I want to know if I can work this into a theory, although it’s just a character sketch. Any thoughts on my Sunny thoughts?
**Maybe we should have threads where we can discuss individual characters, like theories, but just disections of who they are and what they can become…what the series can become…
I apologize for my 2 am attempts at television fueled enlightenment.
[quote comment="227749"][quote comment="227610"]I feel that something must come about for Charlotte. She has had really minimal parts so far and her character must be a catalyst for something. Faraday might give us some clues about her but Charlotte in and of herself has to do something valuable at some point, season 4 all she’s been is a pain in the rear, she’s got to have a bigger role than that.
[/quote]
Great call, Kathy. I was glad to see this development.
I hope Faraday is still alive and remains a regular character – I wonder what happened to that raft?[/quote]
******************************************************
Thanks man. I think I just got a little over zealous in my Charlotte analyzing. Now I’m boggled over this Charlotte born on the island thing. I was shocked at how she seemed to just blow off Faraday.
I was sorta thinking Sun’s baby was Micheal’s. There was a part on the freighter where she actually screamed for Micheal and not Jin, when both guys were in the same vicinity.
Not concrete on this Micheal’s baby idea…it would negate a lot of last season Jin stuff but the idea did occur to me as I watched the show.
Could any one make out what was said on the phone that woke Kate up for her Claire apparition? What is whispers? It sounded more like some one (Sawyer’s voice?) actually saying something just low and creepy.
Wow maybe I shouldn’t think about Lost this late at night. intolost, you summarized my Sun ramblings in two words, “Femme Fatale”.
Okay here are my thoughts about Locke, pay no heed:
Locke and the Island
John’s motto, if you want to look at it that way, is, “This Island has a purpose”. Some people ask, if the Island has a purpose for Locke, why did he die? Locke didn’t die on the Island did he? What if Locke fullfilled his purpose, and when he returned “home” to talk the O6 into returning because the Island has a purpose for them NOW. So maybe Locke reached Island-induced enlightenment and died peacfully.
I apologize for my grammar mistakes. My grammar will improve with sleep.
Ugggggggggggggggh, sleep.
The reason that they HAVE to go back is they are all dead. The world is out of balance with them off the island.
Cool episodes.
Too bad Keamy is gone; Now who am I gonna be terrified of? Glad to see him back from the dead for a minute.
Tip; when fighting BAd dudes; check the damn pulse and then shoot them in the head for good luck…ha!
I want more smarty mouth Miles! Someone has to tell that pouty Charlotte off.
One Bitch;
One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!
Jack seems dense trying to tell Hugo the island didn’t move…what Medical School did he go to?
In Dumbsville? Someone said pill popping Jack represents “reason”…oh please!
Rose sure was a bitch to Miles…why?
Happy that; Michaels dead…finally.
Why didn’t Jin jump off the damn Ship?
Don’t believe he’s dead at all; as someone mentioned isn’t he in some Fast Forwards. How’s that?
And Sawyer; it was a ship not a “boat”.
And now that’s it’s gone I can’t stop mentioning my Pet Peeve…(I hear sighs of relief out there…ha.)
Where did the Zodiac boat go when the island moved?
I think Jin is setting Widmore up; she can’t be dumb enough to side with him—and also not such a slutty pig to screw Michael. She was so happy to be pregnant and if she had Jungle Fever on the island she would be super worried about the baby coming along. No way.
And LOST CHICKA: One can be both a bad ass and an asshole, me thinks.
Miss Kim; scolding about the rules just makes me want to break them. Rules are made to be broken. John Locke told me that (Don’t tell me what I can’t do!)
Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…
I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???
Jin is either dead or on some random island in the middle of nowhere with natives.. therefore probably dead
He may have been able to jump off ship easily because they panned out with the camera and didn’t show us much.. but he would then be stuck in the water.. since lapidus said there was only ocean in each direction.. and he couldnt swim back to the island prior to it being moved because even the helicopter couldnt make it back in time
and since indonesia is 3000 miles and one week away.. hes stuck in no mans land.. unless the producers come up with some whacked out crazy angle to bring him back to life for a season 6 reunion with his desperate asian housewife
[quote comment="227709"]Hammer
Comment 279, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
Okay, I hear you all about Sun being in Korea…but remember me when she’s pissed at Jack.
++++++++++++++
Hey, I got one![/quote]
————-
Don’t sell your self short….It was #156 last week.
Just some quick random comments after reading everyone’s posts:
. Widmore told Ben he was hiding his daughter and Ben would never find her. We now know Desmond is also in hiding with her. Thats why Sun said Widmore knew more people got off the island. He is hiding Penny and Des.
. Ben ends up in Tunisia the same way that Desmond ended up back in time after the hatch exploded. They both came in contact with the ‘mystery matter’ that is apparently part of the source of the island’s powers. Ben’s purposeful contact moved the island while Desmond’s obviously did not.
. It is ridiculous that I am already this excited for next season. I think that all the “current” action will be the intertwined stories of Jack trying to get the Oceanic Six back to the Island and Ben trying to track down Penny(along with Desmond), while the flashbacks will deal with everything that happened on the island from the moment it moved(including Faraday’s raft people. I would think the season will culminate with everyone getting back to Island in the final episode setting up the last season which will be all island, all the time. SWEET LORD, I LOVE THIS SHOW.
“Im gonna keep my eye on you shorty”.
[quote comment="227974"]Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.
You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
Let’s say in real time 2004 he is say 38 years old. (and wears eyeliner). He realizes that the island will need aomone to save it so he goes back in time and recruits Ben. Zoom! Back to 2004. Ben can’t do it all. Alpert zooms back to recruit Locke. Locke’s not ready? Zoom to another time point and try again! OK now go and get Juliet.
All of it is happening at or close to the same time so of course Alpert doesn’t look much different! It is the same 2004 (or whatever time) Alpert in each scene!
Whew. Got that?
[/quote]
That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.
[quote comment="228024"]Can someone please enlighten me on the following:
Why did the island choose to ‘release’ Michael at this particular moment and not before? How did that serve a greater purpose because it didn’t seem like he sacrificed his life to save anyone because everyone on the freighter except Sun and Desmond died anyway? Him freezing the battery may have bought them some time but, again, it only saveed Sun and Desmond.
[/quote]
The timing did seem a bit odd to me also. He didn’t seem to accomplish much between the time Keamy tried to kill him (and failed) and the time the ship exploded. Other than saving a few characters, which also included Aaron. So maybe that was the point, he was able to help Aaron get rescued, and if Aaron is an important character as many have speculated, the timing makes a little more sense.
I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?
[quote comment="228024"]
And if Aaron is the chosen one, why does Claire not want him to come back?
[/quote]
That scene puzzled me. It could have just been a dream – earlier in the episode there was the scene where Kate yelled at Jack for suggesting they go back. So with that on her mind, she had a dream relating to that issue. But I don’t believe that Claire’s appearance was simply a dream. There were whispers on the phone in that scene, which makes me think that Claire’s appearance was caused by, or allowed by, the island. Also, Claire’s insistence that Aaron not be brought back to the island seems to be consistent with the scene from “Cabin Fever” with Claire and Christian in the cabin. Claire was very calm and happy in that scene, as if that is where she belonged, and Christian said something about Aaron being where he belonged (which was with Sawyer, who would help get Aaron off the island, and this ties into what I mentioned in the previous post about Michael’s work being done once Aaron was off the ship and headed for rescue).
However, how does this tie in with Ben telling Jack they ALL must go back to the island (presumably including Aaron also)? If Ben’s viewpoint is opposite of Claire’s and Christian’s, does that mean Ben no longer in the island’s good graces? (as an aside, it seemed to me that when Richard and Ben came face to face, Richard didn’t seem particularly happy to see Ben, so maybe Richard knew the island no longer wanted/needed Ben, and he only helped save Ben from Keamy so he could move the island and subsequently could never come back to the island) (as another aside, perhaps Widmore has a similar relationship with the island – at one point he lived on the island and was a leader, but then he fell out of favor with the island, and at one point had to move the island, so he cannot go back to it and he doesn’t know where it is). But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.
Sorry for rambling but this show continues to leave me confused (but in a good way) and a million different ideas are running through my mind. I hope this made sense. It’s amazing how they can answer so many questions, yet still raise more and more.
And yet ANOTHER puzzler – Locke was told to move the island as a way of escaping the threat of Keamy and his crew. Once those guys were all killed, and the ship had blown up, and almost everyone that Widmore hired (except Mile, Charlotte, Frank and Daniel) had died, the threat was eliminated, no? Widmore himself didn’t know where the island was, and without all those people on the ship, he wouldn’t be able to find it. So it seems like it wouldn’t have been necessary to move the island?
[quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
1) I think D&C explained that electrical signals do not experience the time differential. There have been numerous examples of this – people on the island talking via sat phone to people on the freighter, the morse code message. So presumably Keamy’s arm thingy works in the same fashion.
2) I wonder if they were to try to take Keamy’s arm thingy off, it would immediately detect no pulse, and that would set off the explosives.
[quote comment="228011"]
John “Did he say what I think he said?”
Ben “If you mean time traveling bunnies, then yes!”
[/quote]
[quote comment="228087"]“Im gonna keep my eye on you shorty”.[/quote]
LOL! Those were two of my favorite lines. Also:
(while Jack and Locke were talking at the Orchid Station)
Sawyer: “What are those two talking about?”
Hurley: “Leader stuff?”
RE: comment 250, Pam’s “Sun Theory”:
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, that Sun may very well be playing Widmore and looking to exact revenge. However, I disagree that she is a “new woman”. She’s always been portrayed as manipulative and less than innocent. For example: planning to leave Jin and secretly run away with Jae to the US; using her father’s name to threaten Jin’s real mother; as a little girl, she let the maid take the blame for “The Glass Ballerina” breaking.
[quote comment="227921"][quote comment="227859"][quote comment="227852"][quote comment="227843"]Ji Yeon and Aaron. Black (’cause she’s MICHAEL’S!!) and White stones. Adam and Eve.
Also, remember back to when Hurley and Sun are in Korea (FF) and Hurley looks at Ji Yeon and says “she looks just like Jin doesn’t she?” and Sun hesitates before answering? I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
I appreciate what you are saying, but in no way was it confirmed. I am on the other side. I don’t think she is Michael’s.[/quote]
****************************
Yeah, you’re right, not officially confimed, so we will just have to wait and see (like with everything else we want to know!). Just curious Hammer, why DON’T you think she is Michael’s?[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Like I say, I appreciate your thoughts on it. I just never really bought into the idea. I think it’s a case of you are interpreting the acting to support your idea. Just like how I did with Sun being pissed at Jack. So you could be totally correct.[/quote]
*************************
And I think you are totally correct about Sun being pissed at Jack – in complete agreement there.
[quote comment="228051"]
One Bitch;
One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!
[/quote]
I assume you’re joking – the tank was a bit out of reach.
But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off, and they would have noticed the leaking then (at least by smell, if not by sight).
I agree that Widmore was on the island and had to move it, therefore nt allowing him back. Wasn’t John told to move the island, but in fact Ben moved it? Did this put a wrench in Jacobs plan?
First scene:
I loved how they showed the final scene from TTLG, and then the first scene of this episode picked up right where they left off.
Here’s some of the dialogue about Jeremy Bentham:
Kate: When he came to me and I heard what he had to say I knew he was crazy, but you believed him.
Jack: Yes I did because he said that was the only way to keep you and Aaron safe.
So, what did Jeremy Bentham say? That he wanted them to go back to the island? And if so, why? And, did Locke have the ability to come and go from the island, like Ben did? Or was this a one time (and one-way) trip?
Ben said that whoever moves the island cannot come back…maybe Charles Widmore had the island, moved it, and could not come back but has been trying to for some time…when he and Ben talk about it, it sounds like Ben took the island from him.
Another thought…maybe Charlotte is another Widmore daughter who was born on the island when Charles was there…Charlotte is kind of a feminine form of Charles…!
[quote comment="227658"]Hey … what’s Aaron been eating for a day and a half since Claire wandered off? That baby should be screaming like crazy by now[/quote]
***
I’ve been wondering that myself. Plus the lack of a diaper bag. I guess it’s just one of those details the writers decided not to worry about.
Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:
“That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”
[quote comment="228051"]Why didn’t Jin jump off the damn Ship? Don’t believe he’s dead at all; as someone mentioned isn’t he in some Fast Forwards. How’s that?
[/quote]
Jin MAY have jumped off the freighter. If he did, he may have been “sucked down” when the island “disappeared.” I say sucked down because of the weird ripple it left behind when it left.
But for the love of Pete, people, JIN WAS NOT IN A FLASHFORWARD! Please see posts 136, 103, 107, 114, 121, and 142 on THIS page (not to mention about a hundred other posts on other pages).
Jin may well still be alive, but the panda/baby flashback is proof of NOTHING to do with his health in the future.
: ) P
The website is up and running now. ‘What website’ you ask? octagonglobalrecruiting.com
[quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
I was wondering the same thing. It would have been worth a try. Slip it off and stick it on yourself.
Someone also said that even if Jin jumped off the boat he would be in no man’s land. Where did the Faraday’s boat go? If that is still out there somewhere they could have picked up Jin. If they got transported with the island….so did Jin….maybe. I am sticking with this idea because there is no other explanation except that he is dead and I truly do not believe Jin is dead:(
[quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…
I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]
In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P
[quote comment="228129"]Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:
“That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”[/quote]
That is very interesting. Then he will be the one who speaks on behalf of Jacob? I thought history was going to repeat itself when they were floating in the raft and saw the light from the boat. Reminded me of when they took Walt, I thought they were coming for Aaron, and since the island was gone, it would have really been a WTF moment!
[quote comment="228117"][quote comment="228051"]
One Bitch;
One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!
[/quote]
I assume you’re joking – the tank was a bit out of reach.
But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off, and they would have noticed the leaking then (at least by smell, if not by sight).[/quote]
That’s what bothered you?
What bothered me was the stupid idea that Lapidas could patch the gas tank by putting some duct tape over the hole on the outside of the helicopter.
well, it appears that “who’s the father” has now replaced “who’s in the coffin?”!!
well, at least now we know why christian’s funeral was 10 months later….and why aaron didn’t seem older…because the island moved IN TIME. it was october 2005 when ben woke up in the desert, and since we know he just hurt his arm in the orchid, i think his desert traveling is just around the corner.
when the island moved and the sky turned purple, it reminded me of the LAST time it turned purple…when the hatch imploded. that’s also when penny got the blip on the radar, right? i’m wondering if the island moved the FIRST time the sky turned purple and that’s why suddenly everyone can find them. thoughts?
i don’t think charlotte is annie because charlotte is in her late 20s, and annie is roughly ben’s age. but more than that, i think that since ben knew everything about charlotte, i’m pretty sure he’d KNOW if she was annie.
i’ve already got my ticket to san diego!!
Sorry, the quoting failed. Let me try that again…
[quote comment="228138"]
But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off[/quote]
That’s what bothered you?
What bothered me was the stupid idea that Lapidas could patch the gas tank by putting some duct tape over the hole on the outside of the helicopter.[/quote]
[quote comment="228101"][quote comment="227974"]Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.
You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
[/quote]
That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
***************’
Excellent point, but he may just be making fun of Alpert’s habit of time traveling so much that birthdays become meaningless. (Since there is no more absolutist “now” and “then”)
Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility!
sayid loves to tackle some people i think.
[quote comment="228138"][quote comment="228117"][quote comment="228051"]
One Bitch;
One of the guys on the chopper could have leaned out and stuck their finger in the gas leak; come on!
[/quote]
I assume you’re joking – the tank was a bit out of reach.
But I do have a complaint with that whole scenario – if the gas tank were leaking due to a bullet passing all the way through the gas tank, the leaking would have started on the island before they took off, and they would have noticed the leaking then (at least by smell, if not by sight).[/quote]
That’s what bothered you?
What bothered me was the stupid idea that Lapidas could patch the gas tank by putting some duct tape over the hole on the outside of the helicopter.[/quote]
No, Not joking at all;
I looked closely at the shot where the one hole was and one could easily reach it from the side opening. Look again. Someone could hold onto your legs as you reached out.
And yes, the Duck tape (aka Duct Tape) would work…maybe not for long, but long enough to fly the short distance. That tape is famous for doing miracles…I use it all the time.
I mentioned just before the show that they would have a bullit hole to deal with in the tank. ANY pilot always checks the craft before they fly; standard procedure…ok, ok, they were in a hurry but so much that no one noticed the holes?
Hell, they were just in the middle of a fire fight.
I don’t want to be such a nit picker but I’m also right about someone being able to stem the flow of at least one hole and that the tape would work at least temporarily. But not a big deal to me as a whole (hole).
Jin’s head was just too small to see among the flotsam; he lives! Dude is just too tough to die. Maybe he survives and takes up with Charlotte later (who speaks his lingo). The plot thickens.
Cool fight with Sayid and Keamy; Sayid is one bad ass mf…Keamy met his match!
Creepy how on the flight back the Oceanic lady says in her weird tone re “the Oceanic Six”; …it’s not the best “branding”….ha, just like a Corporate drone speaks.
Might be wrong here, but after Hurley checkmated Echo, Hurley’s piece (I think it was a queen) disappeared. Not sure if anyone else caught that.
[quote comment="228038"]Wow maybe I shouldn’t think about Lost this late at night. intolost, you summarized my Sun ramblings in two words, “Femme Fatale”.
Okay here are my thoughts about Locke, pay no heed:
Locke and the Island
John’s motto, if you want to look at it that way, is, “This Island has a purpose”. Some people ask, if the Island has a purpose for Locke, why did he die? Locke didn’t die on the Island did he? What if Locke fullfilled his purpose, and when he returned “home” to talk the O6 into returning because the Island has a purpose for them NOW. So maybe Locke reached Island-induced enlightenment and died peacfully.[/quote]
—-
So I guess Ben would already have this ‘Island-induced enlightenment’. He doesn’t seem to be very enlightened to me. LOL
[quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Would it make much sense if Jack says: “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, and mysterious others. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.” Um…I doubt he’d say that, or everything else they’ve all done to survive.
So why does everyone seem to think Sun is a whore now? I dont believe Yi Jeon is Michaels for one minute….if so, dont you think Mike would have said something other than “congrats” to Sun when she told him? He also made Jin leave the bomb room because he is going to be a father…just doesnt make sense to me.
Overall, this has been the best season finale i have ever seen, and proably the best season of lost to date. Kudos to those who guessed Locke was in the coffin….my theory on that is this….
After the O6 leave Jack says that Jeremy (Locke) told him that terrible things happened on the island…im guessing that another situation occured and Locke may have had to move the island once more, therefore sending him back to the “real world”.
I wonder how big of a part Walt will play next season, i have a feeling there is more to his story than meets the eye.
I also like the theory that Charlotte is Annie or some variation of her.
Thats all i got for now, the countdown to next season begins!!
[quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
yeah, i was yelling at locke to put the bloody heart monitor on! between michael freezing it and the time delay, he coulda saved everybody!
[quote comment="228144"]Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility![/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ah, the plot thickens. I thought Jeremy Bentham was such an odd name…I was thinking that it was sort of an anagram of Benjamin – used just to throw us off for two hours, but I’m glad there is a more intriguing possibility.
[quote comment="228144"]Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility![/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ah, the plot thickens. I thought Jeremy Bentham was such an odd name…I was thinking that it was sort of an anagram of Benjamin – used just to throw us off for two hours, but I’m glad there is a more intriguing possibility.
great episode!!!
i’m pissed that they killed off Jin’s character! there is still a slim possiblility that he could be alive. maybe he jumped off the boat, but it wasn’t shown on screen. but even if he did get off the boat would he have be relocated with the island? he was a good character, but so was charlie.
locke being in the coffin was a huge surprise! i think that he will be brought back to life when they take him to the island because the island heals him.
the fight scene between sayiid and keamy was AWESOME!!! sayid has to be one of my favorite characters.
in no way is sun’s baby michael’s baby!!! sun is not that much of a slut. we have never been leaded to belive that they had an affair. it’s jin’s baby, and the show has clearly pointed that out. the reason sun told michael that she was pregnant was because she wanted him to know so he’d get jin out of the bomb area.
i don’t think claire is dead; she’s missing. there was an episode in the first season where claire went to a psychic and he told her that she has to raise her baby, nobody else can. he also told her that her baby will save them all. so claire can’t be dead.
[quote comment="228129"]Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:
“That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”[/quote]
OMG! that’s just awesome connection. OMG! Will Locke be Jacob’s new person to speak through? OMG!
Another thing about Yi Jeon being Michaels….If this were true, and Michael fathered Sun’s baby, there would be no way that Sun’s family would forgive her for not only having an affair, but having a baby with a black man. So that little small talk between daddy Paik and Sun would’nt happen because she would easily be disowned by her family. Trust me, im an asian man who dates a black woman, i know about these things!!
I thought that Jeremy Bentham was just an anagram and that it was actually BEN in the coffin. Pretty cool that the writers chose that name though because of the history behind the REAL Jeremy Bentham.
[quote comment="228125"]Ben said that whoever moves the island cannot come back…maybe Charles Widmore had the island, moved it, and could not come back but has been trying to for some time…when he and Ben talk about it, it sounds like Ben took the island from him.
Another thought…maybe Charlotte is another Widmore daughter who was born on the island when Charles was there…Charlotte is kind of a feminine form of Charles…![/quote]
I agree with the Widmore having been to the island and been the one to move it before.
But what about Charlotte being Ben’s real daughter with Annie. She would be about the right age, Maybe Annie moved the island before and was preggers at the time and had baby off island.
So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?
My two favorite parts of the episode:
1.) When Sawyer swims back to the island and says to Juliette, “Nice day for a swim.”
2.) When Hurley gives Sawyer the 14-year-old cracker and says it’s good and Sawyer takes a bite and likes it.
[quote comment="228108"]And yet ANOTHER puzzler – Locke was told to move the island as a way of escaping the threat of Keamy and his crew. Once those guys were all killed, and the ship had blown up, and almost everyone that Widmore hired (except Mile, Charlotte, Frank and Daniel) had died, the threat was eliminated, no? Widmore himself didn’t know where the island was, and without all those people on the ship, he wouldn’t be able to find it. So it seems like it wouldn’t have been necessary to move the island?[/quote]
*****
I initially thought the same thing. Then I realized that the purpose of moving the island was to get it out of the reach of Widmore, because he had found it. And I think he found it by using the Black Rock journal as well as beating up one of Ben’s operative’s for info. And of course any prior knowledge he may have had.
Also, since we had a literal frozen wheel…does that make Ben the donkey?
I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.
Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward.
I was so creeped out when Christian Shephard appeared to Michael and told him he could go now. I interpreted that as him telling Michael that he could die now. But I don’t understand what the island’s purpose would be for him blowing up the freigther.
Sawyer must have swam very fast for him to get to the island so quickly before the island moved. And I also want to know what happened to Daniel and the people in the raft. I think they couldn’t have been too far off shore and maybe they moved with the island.
I think there is a good chance that Jin is still alive. When the explosion happened he could have been blown off the ship or jumped into the water. Is it possible that anything in the water within a certain vicinity around the island moves with the island when it moved? If so, that could explain where Daniel and the people on the raft went, and possibly allow Jin to still be with the island.
****Whoop-Whoop-whoop!****…****Whoop-whoop-whoop***
YELLOW ALERT…YELLOW ALERT. I would be derelict in my duty if I did not at least warn folks about the strength of the Potential Jumping of the Shark by our beloved show Lost.
Yes a lot happened, some felt rushed imho, and yes questions answered, questions raised, but if the show begins to get even more extra nutty, I’m going to point to this episode as the JTS.
Why? Well for me the O6 seeing the island disappear, is too incredible of an event for them to be so nonchalant in accepting Jack’s plan to lie about their whereabouts.
None of them question him? If Jack was so hell bent on getting EVERYONE off, and he doesn’t think the island moved (when he clearly saw it, which incidentally broke the lid on the Pandora’s box of possibilities) AND becasue he is so hands on and didn’t witness any mercenary killing, would have probably thought that Locke in some way egged on any type of gun play. So it would seem to me, he’d try to go to the location to get the rest of them.
I really have quite a long list of reasons, that I won’t get into because it is only lil ole me’s opinion and I don’t want to bash the show that I will continue to watch/blog about, as I’m heavily invested at this point.
Ji Yeon is NOT Michael and Sun’s lovechild. For me that falls into the Charlie is alive category. Hell we could say that Juliette and Jin were lovers based on Juliette whistleblowing on Sun, and the way she looks at Jin. A Michael/Sun baby storyline does not even make sense to me as far as being a storyline…what is the purpose? To show that Sun is truly an evil b*tch? I mean I know that Pandora’s lid is broken so it is possible, but for me that would continue the downward slide.
Charlotte being Annie? Um, wasn’t Ben in love, pupply love, crushing on Annie? Why would he try to shoot her? Why wouldn’t he remember her? To me she could possibly be his child if you want to connect those dots, but I’m thinking it will be another related, yet unrelated to the big storyline of the whole thing…like Charlie having to die for Desmond’s “vision.” Or Sawyer “choosing” to stay, when he actually chose to sacrifice himself.
I think Frank Lapidus will die in the next season, as he will be an expendable person “in-the-know.”
Sorry for the long post, but I’ve got a lot of work to do today so I couldn’t break it up.
Did anyone watch the two lost alternate endings on good morning america? Is there anywhere I can watch this online?
[quote comment="228037"]
Could any one make out what was said on the phone that woke Kate up for her Claire apparition? What is whispers? It sounded more like some one (Sawyer’s voice?) actually saying something just low and creepy.[/quote]
According to lostpedia: During her flash-forward dream sequence, Kate receives a garbled phone call. When played backwards, the message states: “The Island needs you. You have to go back before it’s too late.”
[quote comment="228185"][quote comment="228108"]And yet ANOTHER puzzler – Locke was told to move the island as a way of escaping the threat of Keamy and his crew. Once those guys were all killed, and the ship had blown up, and almost everyone that Widmore hired (except Mile, Charlotte, Frank and Daniel) had died, the threat was eliminated, no? Widmore himself didn’t know where the island was, and without all those people on the ship, he wouldn’t be able to find it. So it seems like it wouldn’t have been necessary to move the island?[/quote]
*****
I initially thought the same thing. Then I realized that the purpose of moving the island was to get it out of the reach of Widmore, because he had found it. And I think he found it by using the Black Rock journal as well as beating up one of Ben’s operative’s for info. And of course any prior knowledge he may have had.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That could be. I was thinking that Widmore himself had no idea exactly where the island was. But he must have had at least a general idea, and if that was the case, he hired the freighter crew to just camp out and wait for it to appear somehow, so he could do that again in the future.
(BTW, nice to see you back here, skweez)
Regarding the metal stuff put in the little room that blew a hole in the wall – maybe it has to be done this way now since the swan? was imploded with the failsafe key.
It may have needed a magnetic pull or push to get to the hole of the donkey wheel.
Maybe
By the time Sun comes to see Widmore, Ben will have already been to see Widmore right?
[quote comment="227789"][quote comment="227770"]Anyone run that phone call to Kate backwards yet?[/quote]
LOL not yet, is that even possible??[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anything is possible!
Here’s the link: http://getlostpodcast.com/2008/05/29/lost-episode-4×13–quottheres-no-place-like-homequot-easter-eggs-screencaps-audio.aspx
[quote comment="228198"]Did anyone watch the two lost alternate endings on good morning america? Is there anywhere I can watch this online?[/quote]
Yup – here you go:
http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2008/05/season-finale-2-alternate-endings.html
[quote comment="228198"]Did anyone watch the two lost alternate endings on good morning america? Is there anywhere I can watch this online?[/quote]
They have it posted on the home page of this site now:
http://www.lostblog.net/
: ) P
[quote comment="228173"][quote comment="228125"]Ben said that whoever moves the island cannot come back…maybe Charles Widmore had the island, moved it, and could not come back but has been trying to for some time…when he and Ben talk about it, it sounds like Ben took the island from him.
Another thought…maybe Charlotte is another Widmore daughter who was born on the island when Charles was there…Charlotte is kind of a feminine form of Charles…![/quote]
I agree with the Widmore having been to the island and been the one to move it before.
But what about Charlotte being Ben’s real daughter with Annie. She would be about the right age, Maybe Annie moved the island before and was preggers at the time and had baby off island.[/quote]
***
But Charlotte said she was born on the island when she was talking to Miles. That part blew me away.
MOST people who have died have had a nice corpse to prove it, with the exception of Patchy. We saw Charlie floating dead (I’m sorry PJ!), Nicki and Paolo were buried, Ecko and Boone had dead bodies, Naomi, Danielle, Alex, Alex’s boyfriend (whose name escapes me at the moment), Arzt, etc. We never actually SEE a DEAD Claire, yet she is most likely dead all the same. Michael is “released” by the island to be dead now. Jin was NOT seen floating dead, flying through the air, or burning up in the explosion. Therefore, I think he IS FOR SURE alive SOMEWHERE. No way they kill off a major character and just move on without closure. He’s not dead IMHO.
[quote comment="228211"]Charlotte said she was born on the island when she was talking to Miles. That part blew me away.[/quote]
DID she say that? I thought she said she was searching for the place she was born. I think it was IMPLIED, but I don’t remember her actually saying it. Lostpedia doesn’t have the transcript up yet, so we can’t check there. You may well be right, I just don’t remember it that way.
: ) P
[quote comment="228114"]RE: comment 250, Pam’s “Sun Theory”:
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, that Sun may very well be playing Widmore and looking to exact revenge. However, I disagree that she is a “new woman”. She’s always been portrayed as manipulative and less than innocent. For example: planning to leave Jin and secretly run away with Jae to the US; using her father’s name to threaten Jin’s real mother; as a little girl, she let the maid take the blame for “The Glass Ballerina” breaking.[/quote]
*****
Spot on, ToeKnee. I totally agree with you there.
I disagree with those who believe Ji Yeon is Michael’s. For one thing, we SAW the baby, and she’s all Korean. There would be some element of darker skin there. It’s incredibly rare for a mixed-race baby to show only the racial characteristics of one of its parents.
[quote comment="227827"][quote comment="227809"][quote comment="227780"]
Where is everyone getting this Micheal is Sun’s baby’s daddy? I thought it was a joke earlier! Did I miss something? If that is true I never saw that coming!! What episode is it in that everyone is getting the idea from? I want to see!![/quote]
Yeah, I’m not buying this theory either. I think it’s based in part on the time in season one when Sun and Jin were not getting along, and Sun and Michael were becoming closer. In one episode, they almost kissed. But it makes no sense for Michael to be the father. It makes the whole season 3 storyline of “Is the baby Jin’s or not?” pointless.[/quote]
****************************
The moment Sun blurted out to Michael “I’m pregnant” I knew the baby was his. He knew it too – you could tell by his big smile. He knew it was his. No way it isn’t his. As for the storyline being pointless if it isn’t Jin’s: Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]
—————————–
I disagree about the reason he was smiling – I think the big smile was to hide the fact that he didn’t think the nitrogen thing was going to work and that the bomb was going to blow up with his friend Sun and her unborn child on the boat. There was that moment where he looked scared out of his mind, and then the big smile. He was trying to make Sun feel better. No way they hooked up, no way it’s his baby.
[quote comment="227790"]
When Jack said goodbye to Desmond, he said something like, “Don’t let him/them find you”. He may have been talking about Widmore. Remember too that Sun said to Widmore something like “You know we weren’t the only ones to get off the island.” So perhaps Widmore knows Desmond is still alive and is off the island, and Widmore trying to track down Desmond will be a plotline next season.[/quote]
I think Penny and Desmond are hiding from Widmore. Widmore is trying to find them and Sun knows this.
[quote comment="228058"]Jin is either dead or on some random island in the middle of nowhere with natives.. therefore probably dead
He may have been able to jump off ship easily because they panned out with the camera and didn’t show us much.. but he would then be stuck in the water.. since lapidus said there was only ocean in each direction.. and he couldnt swim back to the island prior to it being moved because even the helicopter couldnt make it back in time
and since indonesia is 3000 miles and one week away.. hes stuck in no mans land.. unless the producers come up with some whacked out crazy angle to bring him back to life for a season 6 reunion with his desperate asian housewife[/quote]
I agree. If he somehow manages to swim to the island before it takes off (in super-speed time), I will have a hard time buying that. He is dead- though he might still appear aka Christian, Charlie, etc.
[quote comment="228191"]
I was so creeped out when Christian Shephard appeared to Michael and told him he could go now. I interpreted that as him telling Michael that he could die now. But I don’t understand what the island’s purpose would be for him blowing up the freigther.[/quote]
The freighter blowing up was just a casualty. The purpose of Michael being there had been fullfilled. Locke has become the Leader, and Ben has left the island. That is a HUGE change in terms of how the island is run.
I really do not believe that Charlotte is Annie. She is way too young to be Annie. Plus I really don’t think Ben would shoot Annie as he shot Charlotte.
Ben came to the island sometime in the early 70s. At that time he was about 10 years old. Annie looked a year or two younger. Charlotte was born in 1979. So she could be a teenage Annie’s daughter, but that would mean that Annie would have left the island thirteen years before the purge and hidden the pregnancy (and herself) from Ben. SOmething is just not making sense.
[quote comment="228202"]Regarding the metal stuff put in the little room that blew a hole in the wall – maybe it has to be done this way now since the swan? was imploded with the failsafe key.
It may have needed a magnetic pull or push to get to the hole of the donkey wheel.
Maybe
[/quote]
Looked to me like the Orchid was built over the donkey wheel. The idea was to run the orchid off of the intense power of the ancient donkey wheel device. I dont think that anything is supposed to blow a hole in the wall, but Ben knows it will work, and that he can get down to the original structure.
This was a very cool scene.. I want to know more about the pre-Dharma history of this island. And being that I think some people are eternal, due to island powers (Richard) i hope we can get some flashbacks in s5 s6 to the original inhabitants, who would have constructed that donkey wheel and that four toed statue…
Richard is not eternal. He just time travels all over the place. See above. (at least in theory).
Still unresolved –? The food drops. were they still continuing? HOw did they know where the island was. How will they get food now? There was no indication that the island was self-sustaining agriculturally or that they imported other outside foodstuffs.
(There were some chickens and pigs, but Locke cooked the last one just a few days after moving to the barracks. Clearly not a big livestock population.
[quote comment="227651"]Did anyone notice that in the interview of the oceanic 6, Jack states there were 8 of them…then they ask what happened to the other 3…then gives out the three names.
Then a lady asks another question about the six of them. That makes no sense at all. Mind Games…LOL
Oh crud. Is this supposed to go in last week’s comments??[/quote]
yeah but if aaron wasn’t born yet-taht makes 5 +3+ 8
Ok, here’s my wish list:
1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
3. Why did Locke die?
4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
7. Where is Vincent!!
Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!!
[quote comment="227690"]BOOM! IT WENT BOOM!?! Michael cannot die, so he’s still gotta be around. Do you really think they killed off Jin?[/quote]
Michael can not kill himself. But he could die by the explosion. I’d say he’s toast. And yes, Jin’s a goner.
http://jonnyontheweb.com/lostcracker.gif
“[quote comment="228240"]Ok, here’s my wish list:
1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
3. Why did Locke die?
4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
7. Where is Vincent!!
Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!![/quote]
5 — Remember in the flash forward Kate was doing something for Sawyer – something possibly involving money and his daughter? When he whispered in her ear – he was telling her what he wanted her to do for him once she got home.
wish #8 – find out what happens romanticaly with juliette & sawyer, they looked cozy sitting on the beach watching the sea drinking dharma rum,.
[quote comment="228240"]Ok, here’s my wish list:
1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
3. Why did Locke die?
4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
7. Where is Vincent!!
Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!![/quote]
4- I don’t think Walt thinks his dad is alive. He knows his dad was there, but I didn’t hear anything to indicate he thought that Michael was alive.
[quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
*********************
I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”
[quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Claire.
[quote comment="228253"]
4- I don’t think Walt thinks his dad is alive. He knows his dad was there, but I didn’t hear anything to indicate he thought that Michael was alive.[/quote]
*******************
When he came to visit Hurley…he said that Locke (Bentham) came to visit him and asked Hurley why the O6 were lying and when Hurley said to protect the people that remained on the island, Walt said, “like my dad?”…could just be an innocent comment, but have to wonder if Locke said anything to sway him…?
[quote comment="228183"]So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?[/quote]
—-
They were looking for the economist. If Sun was the economist they would not have to locate her. They know where Sun is.
[quote comment="227994"][quote comment="227910"][quote comment="227871"][
I might be misunderstanding your point. I don't understand point A, and point B was a problem for Micheal because he didn't have enough stuff to freeze the battery.[/quote]
The thing is, even if they COULD have disarmed the bomb in any way, they had to KNOW how to do it. They were TRYING to figure it out, but none of them had enough expertise to disarm the bomb in the time they had.
: ) P[/quote]
If spraying the battery and freezing it to make it inert would stop the explosion from happening until the freezing wore off, wouldn’t removing the cables from the battery have the same effect as keeping the battery permanently frozen, which they would have done if there was more chemicals.
[quote comment="228256"][quote comment="228253"]
4- I don’t think Walt thinks his dad is alive. He knows his dad was there, but I didn’t hear anything to indicate he thought that Michael was alive.[/quote]
*******************
When he came to visit Hurley…he said that Locke (Bentham) came to visit him and asked Hurley why the O6 were lying and when Hurley said to protect the people that remained on the island, Walt said, “like my dad?”…could just be an innocent comment, but have to wonder if Locke said anything to sway him…?[/quote]
______________________
I took that to mean that they were lying the same way his dad had lied about what had happened to them when they got back from the island. His dad had lied (something we saw earlier Walt had been very upset about) in order to protect his son. The O6 are lying now to protect people on the island.
I saw it more as Walt being older having a better understanding of why his dad had lied, especially seeing that the O6 (many of whom he respects) are doing the same now.
[quote comment="228240"]Ok, here’s my wish list:
1. What is the four toed statue for and where is the Temple?
2. What happened to Daniel and the rest of the people in the raft?
3. Why did Locke die?
4. Why did Locke visit Walt and why does Walt think his dad is still on the island?
5. What did Sawyer say to Kate before he jumped?
6. What happens to Smokey when the island moves?
7. Where is Vincent!!
Ok, that’s all I can think of for now…what a great episode!!!![/quote]
—-
8. How does Ben get off the island?
9. Who is left on the beach beside Julia, Sawyer, Miles and Charlotte?
10. How many toes does Richard Alpert have?
[quote comment="228254"][quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
*********************
I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”[/quote]
*********
He could have at least tried. Better than doing nothing.
My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?
Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.
[quote comment="228254"][quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
*********************
I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”[/quote]
******
And how would the signal get from the room at the bottom of the elevator to 5 miles off island. That is one powerful transmitter.
[quote comment="228111"][quote comment="228106"]2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
2) I wonder if they were to try to take Keamy’s arm thingy off, it would immediately detect no pulse, and that would set off the explosives.[/quote]
This was my question the whole evening as well. Why couldn’t someone else have tried that super-dee-duper arm bracelet/bomb detinator thingy on for size??
Forgive the ignorance (if it is), but have we heard the name “Jeremy Bentham” on the show before this episode?
[quote comment="228135"][quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…
I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]
In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P[/quote]
——————————-
But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.
Here’s what one of the “experts” at Popular Mechanics says about the explosives:
“First things first: the explosives. We blow a lot of things up on MythBusters, so I know from experience that last night Lost missed the mark. The 500 pounds of C4, that whole movie thing about “dummy triggers” and fake tripwires—it’s all a load of crap. Nobody does that. At least that’s what my friends at the FBI tell me. Would you want to set up explosives so that pretty much anything you did would make them go off? It’s just like guessing and cutting one of the wires in the movies: Nobody would survive using that technique for very long, including Keamy and his crew. The whole training of a bomb tech is to work safely with explosives, not dangerously. There are too many ways to mess it up. Also, I’m pretty sure that C4 isn’t conductive, which it would need to be to set up its wiring as a resistance feedback loop that could tell if you started to pull out the detonators. And if freezing the battery works, why not just disconnect it? Oh, right, the monitored feedback loop. But wait, C4 isn’t conductive … never mind.”
Here’s the link: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/robotics/4266333.html
[quote comment="228252"]wish #8 – find out what happens romanticaly with juliette & sawyer, they looked cozy sitting on the beach watching the sea drinking dharma rum,.[/quote]
Juliet. I saw her looking flirty with Daniel Faraday last night too. What a tramp.
I kind of thought that the lie was made up by all of the O6- with maybe Jack pushing for it. He just said they needed to lie. The lie was made up with the help of Penny (on her boat), who would have known that her dad wouldn’t be happy about the O6.
Is it possible that Ben had Sayid kill Locke? If Locke is dead and Ben could manipulate the O6 to return, he could possibly return to power. Okay, I KNOW anything is possible at this point but is it plausible? When Sayid told Hurley that “they said it was suicide”, I just had the feeling that Sayid had done the killing.
Who was the man sitting outside Hurley’s mental hospital?
Sun told Widmore that the O6 were not the only ones who left the island. I assume she was talking about Desmond and the pilot. Why would Widmore care about those two leaving the island. Are Penny and Desmond hiding from Penny’s dad?
[quote comment="228168"]Another thing about Yi Jeon being Michaels….If this were true, and Michael fathered Sun’s baby, there would be no way that Sun’s family would forgive her for not only having an affair, but having a baby with a black man. So that little small talk between daddy Paik and Sun would’nt happen because she would easily be disowned by her family. Trust me, im an asian man who dates a black woman, i know about these things!![/quote]
The baby hasn’t been born yet.
[quote comment="227843"]
I started suspecting it then, that Ji Yeon WASN’T REALLY JIN’S. Now it is confimed, she’s Michael’s.[/quote]
When was that scene? That wasn’t much of a confirmation IMO. I have read that a lot of people are speculating that Ji-Yeon MAY be Michael’s. I don’t agree, in no way was it confirmed.[quote comment="227827"] Sun is being set up as being quite adept at keeping secrets and telling lies, qualities she will use in her new role as Paik Industries new honcho.[/quote]
Sun has always been that way. When she was little she broke a statue( I think) and lied to her father about. She had an affair. She spoke english and didn’t tell her husband.
I’m only up to #200. I just felt the need to comment on this issue. Be back fo more.
[quote comment="228191"]I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.
Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward….[/quote]
It was time traveling because he had the same arm wound that he got when falling down the ladder.
[quote comment="228265"][quote comment="228254"][quote comment="228106"]I’m pretty sure no one brought this up – so here I go: Did anyone else find it odd that 1) Keamy’s arm thingy went dead exactly at the same time the light turned red on the freighter? Isn’t there a time differential of like a day and a half? 2) Why couldn’t Locke have ripped off Keamy’s arm thingy and quickly put it on his own arm to keep the heart beat going?[/quote]
*********************
I wondered the same thing… maybe the split second it would have taken to remove it and put it on his own arm would have been enough to trigger the explosives. I was watching that and thinking, “Just put your wrist in there and move it to your own body!!!!!”[/quote]
******
And how would the signal get from the room at the bottom of the elevator to 5 miles off island. That is one powerful transmitter.[/quote]
************************
Ahhhhhh! A most excellent point!
I am a little confused as to why Hurley sometimes says he wants to go back, and sometimes he doesn’t. Like last night, he says to Sayid “we’re not going to go back are we?” like he didn’t want to. and Sayid says “no, just somewhere safe.”
I wonder if some whiperers give good advice and some give evil advice? Maybe?
I may be completely wrong on this, but I am going to rewatch the episode tonight….. when Locke met up with The Others at the end of the episode, did they show the sky changing colors and the load noise? If not – could this possibly be a flash forward to when Locke returns to the island after he dies off the island, and that is why Alpert said, “Welcome home”? That’s probably way off, but just throwing the thought out there
[quote comment="228270"][quote comment="228135"][quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…
I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]
In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P[/quote]
——————————-
But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]
****************************
Well, they spent a week on Penny’s boat tweaking and planning their story. Penny’s money is no doubt helping them cover up the truth.
Yea…My Turn
1. Any significance with the flower Antheriums?
2.Hurley did not seem “crazy” at all when speaking to Walt
3.The Orchid was built 20 years ago
4.How did Miles know that Charlotte had been to the island before? I love the way he said “How DO I know? hmmmm
5.Favorite line: Sawyer calling Frank Kenny Rogers…so funny i laughed out loud
6.What would make Juliet stay on the island? Who was left for her to get off?
7.I believe Jin jumped and got on the zodiac with Daniel. Since the Hydra island dissapeared as well i am believing that the raft went with them as well. They will show up next season.
8.Oct. 24th 2005 is when Ben ended up in Tunisia. That is 10 months from when the island moved. Are we to think that the island rematerialized 10 months into the future like Ben?
9.Was the donkey wheel deliberately frozen to keep the island in check similar to what Michael did witht eh freighter bomb?
10. Does the island get all its power from the substance within the donkey wheel?
11.C.S. Lewis wrote a book called “Miracles” It is very similar to the conversation Jack and Locke at the Orchid about the possibilities of miracles.
12. Was there a videocamera in the corner of the room where the bomb was? I would like a screen cap if anyone can find one. After Michael heard the wispers he looked to the left (videocamera) and then to the right and saw CS
13. The phone call Kate received with the wispers said “the island needs you, you have to go back before it’s too late”
These are off the top of my head reading through all of your comments. Please enlighten me with answers if you have them. Thank you
[quote comment="228114"]RE: comment 250, Pam’s “Sun Theory”:
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, that Sun may very well be playing Widmore and looking to exact revenge. However, I disagree that she is a “new woman”. She’s always been portrayed as manipulative and less than innocent. For example: planning to leave Jin and secretly run away with Jae to the US; using her father’s name to threaten Jin’s real mother; as a little girl, she let the maid take the blame for “The Glass Ballerina” breaking.[/quote]
Good insight. I think now that she’s a widow and on her own she can use her manipulative side in the light of day. She is who she is now.
[quote comment="228290"][quote comment="228191"]I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.
Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward….[/quote]
It was time traveling because he had the same arm wound that he got when falling down the ladder.[/quote]
*****
Sorry, I meant he wasn’t time travelling in that particular episode when Alex died (I don’t remember the name of the episode – but it was the one where Keamy and his guys came and blew up half of New Otherton). It seemed at the time that Ben was time travelling, but in that episode it was actually a flash forward.
[quote comment="228290"][quote comment="228191"]I was so mad at Ben after he killed Keamy. He acted like he didn’t care at all about the people on the boat that died. I understand he was probably just acting out of emotions since they killed his daughter, but still, that was being a very bad leader.
Also, if I recall correctly, after he put all those metal things in that door and it looked like it exploded, can it never be fixed or does it become fixed after the island moves? And how does Ben then get off the island? I’m thinking that the episode where Ben was in the desert wasn’t him time travelling but actually a flash forward….[/quote]
It was time traveling because he had the same arm wound that he got when falling down the ladder.[/quote]
Ben is still a bad guy, no? I don’t think he’s a good guy, anyway.
I think that Ben really is not ever getting back on the island, just like Whitmore… thats why he now needs people to get back on the island for him. Why he wakes up in the desert is beyond me, but I think that the island was already located there at one point, someone said that Charlotte had been checking it out previously. Perhaps there are a few certain locations on the wheel, you spin the wheel and see which one you end up at.
[quote comment="228152"][quote comment="228038"]Wow maybe I shouldn’t think about Lost this late at night. intolost, you summarized my Sun ramblings in two words, “Femme Fatale”.
Okay here are my thoughts about Locke, pay no heed:
Locke and the Island
John’s motto, if you want to look at it that way, is, “This Island has a purpose”. Some people ask, if the Island has a purpose for Locke, why did he die? Locke didn’t die on the Island did he? What if Locke fullfilled his purpose, and when he returned “home” to talk the O6 into returning because the Island has a purpose for them NOW. So maybe Locke reached Island-induced enlightenment and died peacfully.[/quote]
—-
So I guess Ben would already have this ‘Island-induced enlightenment’.
He doesn’t seem to be very enlightened to me. LOL[/quote]
Maybe you don’t need to be enlightened for the Island to use you. Maybe Ben should have stayed on the Island.
I agree, Ben is no Buddah. But that’s what I like about him; he’s trying to survive the best way he knows and if he doesn’t do what the Island wants, he’d throw everybody in front of the cart and risk a lot if he can get what he wants.
I just thought of something! Maybe everything that was within a certain radius of the island disappeared with the island. I’m not sure how many miles out it was, but you ha ve to go to and from the island at a certain bearing. If this is true and the freighter was withing that radius, perhaps Jin jumped or was blown off the boat and was either rescued by Daniel’s raft or not, but moved with the island. The reason the helicopter didn’t vanish as well – maybe because it was in the air?
[quote comment="227829"]that fight with keamy and sayid was the best fight scene on the show by far…like i said before…, sayid is a raw killer, probably the best character on the show…[/quote]
But that was the first time Sayid was on the ropes. He was choking until Alpert came along and saved him. Still, the Sayid in the future is a badass.
[quote comment="228101"][quote comment="227974"]Hi all. I’ve been meaning to point this out ever since the episode where Alpert shows up all over the place (or time) to recruit Locke.
You all want to know why Alpert doesn’t age. He DOES age. Of course he does. He is human and humans age.
He looks the same age all the time when we see him because he TIME TRAVELS. He goes to whatever time he needs to be in to do what is needed for the island. But really all of this is happening at around the same time point in Alpert’s frame of reference.
Let’s say in real time 2004 he is say 38 years old. (and wears eyeliner). He realizes that the island will need aomone to save it so he goes back in time and recruits Ben. Zoom! Back to 2004. Ben can’t do it all. Alpert zooms back to recruit Locke. Locke’s not ready? Zoom to another time point and try again! OK now go and get Juliet.
All of it is happening at or close to the same time so of course Alpert doesn’t look much different! It is the same 2004 (or whatever time) Alpert in each scene!
Whew. Got that?
[/quote]
That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
++++++++++++++
He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.
[quote comment="228300"]I just thought of something! Maybe everything that was within a certain radius of the island disappeared with the island. I’m not sure how many miles out it was, but you ha ve to go to and from the island at a certain bearing. If this is true and the freighter was withing that radius, perhaps Jin jumped or was blown off the boat and was either rescued by Daniel’s raft or not, but moved with the island. The reason the helicopter didn’t vanish as well – maybe because it was in the air?[/quote]
Beat me to it! That’s exactly what I think, whatever was in the snow globe went to the new “location”.
I was reminded of this last night – this goes back a couple episodes, but I don’t remember anyone discussing it…
Does anyone know how Faraday had prior knowledge of the Orchid’s existence in his notebook? When he said that they have to get off the island, he knew what the Orchid could do…how?
We already suspect he’s a time traveler (with Des as his constant) but does that mean he’s been to the island before?
[quote comment="228183"]So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?[/quote]
Yepper Lins you might be onto something. But me thinks that since Locke can go back dead, so can Sun. Maybe dead or alive is acceptable (whisperers).
[quote comment="228306"]I was reminded of this last night – this goes back a couple episodes, but I don’t remember anyone discussing it…
Does anyone know how Faraday had prior knowledge of the Orchid’s existence in his notebook? When he said that they have to get off the island, he knew what the Orchid could do…how?
We already suspect he’s a time traveler (with Des as his constant) but does that mean he’s been to the island before?[/quote]
I think so, and we’ll find out next season about all three of them (Char, Miles, Dan).
[quote comment="228193"]****Whoop-Whoop-whoop!****…****Whoop-whoop-whoop***
YELLOW ALERT…YELLOW ALERT. I would be derelict in my duty if I did not at least warn folks about the strength of the Potential Jumping of the Shark by our beloved show Lost.
Yes a lot happened, some felt rushed imho, and yes questions answered, questions raised, but if the show begins to get even more extra nutty, I’m going to point to this episode as the JTS.
Why? Well for me the O6 seeing the island disappear, is too incredible of an event for them to be so nonchalant in accepting Jack’s plan to lie about their whereabouts.
[/quote]
I totally disagree, this was the best two hours of TV I’ve seen.
The reason they accept the island disappearing is because they have just gone through 3 months of outrageous dream like events. If I were in that chopper I would have said, “No one will believe this shit, what’s the lie we need again?”
[quote comment="228262"]
8. How does Ben get off the island?
[/quote]
I thought that was pretty apparent. By turning the wheel and moving the island he was transported to the Sahara Desert in Oct 2005.
[quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="228270"]
But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]
Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.
: ) P
First off, phenomenol episodes. I was riveted.
Highlights:
1) Desmond and Penny re-uniting (I hope they keep both characters heavily involved in the story – they would contribute so much, so many dimensions)
2) Sayid-Keamy scrum – awesome fight scene
3) Ben and John’s exchanges in the Orchid
4) Kate’s “dream” about Claire
Lowlights:
1) Sun’s wailing about Jin (like he was going to hear her as the freighter was exploding and the helo was like 100 feet above
2) Sawyer/Kate kiss – what was the point again?
New questions raised:
1) what did Alpert mean when he said to John, welcome home?
2) why does Miles want to stay?
3) To whom was Ben talking when he said: “Are you happy now, Jacob?”
I’ve read all these comments and a couple questions I have that I haven’t yet seen:
1) Why was Kate apologizing to Aaron so much? 2) what is the connection between John and Jack? I know about the Man of Reason/Man of Faith dichotomy, but there has to be more to it. there has to be some other relationship between these 2. John said at the Orchid that he needed Jack to stay.
Anyway, great episodes – great comments.
[quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?
Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
I think you are onto something for sure.
[quote comment="227919"]yall r making too much of the bomb….if the island didnt want the bomb to go off it would not have…but jacob showed up and the bomb exploded, so yes the island blew up the freighter cause it does not want anyone to leave….[/quote]
Of course you also need to take into account Ben knew the boat would explode if Keamy died and he still killed him. IMO Ben is responsible for the whole thing.
[quote comment="228139"]
well, at least now we know why christian’s funeral was 10 months later….and why aaron didn’t seem older…because the island moved IN TIME. it was october 2005 when ben woke up in the desert, and since we know he just hurt his arm in the orchid, i think his desert traveling is just around the corner.
[/quote]
I think they were still rescued in the “real world” timeline in January of ’05.
[quote comment="228334"]New questions raised:
2) why does Miles want to stay?
*snip*
I’ve read all these comments and a couple questions I have that I haven’t yet seen:
1) Why was Kate apologizing to Aaron so much?[/quote]
I think Miles wants to stay because he is curious. I think that is why he agreed to go in the first place. He is a scientist and he wants to know MORE.
I think Kate was apologizing because her dream of Claire was a “wake-up call” and she realizes maybe they should have stayed. I believe that will be the beginning of KATE’s downward spiral which will eventually lead to her standing at the end of a runway, in the middle of the night, doped up on pills and screaming, “We have to go BACK!”
LOL
: ) P
[quote comment="228283"]
Who was the man sitting outside Hurley’s mental hospital?[/quote]
He must have been working for Widmore. Did you notice when Sayid asked him the time, I think he was gonna reply 8:15.
[quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
I got the impression he was trying to protect themselves as well. He knew that whoever planted the fake wreckage would have the resources to find and hunt them down. I think that is why they went all the way to Membata to be rescued. Maybe so they could actually claim, if Widmore ever came knocking, “what island”? Until Sun ruined it for them.
[quote comment="228358"]
I think Kate was apologizing because her dream of Claire was a “wake-up call” and she realizes maybe they should have stayed. I believe that will be the beginning of KATE’s downward spiral which will eventually lead to her standing at the end of a runway, in the middle of the night, doped up on pills and screaming, “We have to go BACK!”
LOL
: ) P[/quote]
You really might be on to something. The island hasn’t come calling to them all at the same time. Hurley saw the numbers after returning to the island. Jack didn’t see CS until about 2 years after the rescue. Maybe the island is just starting to call Kate.
[quote comment="228352"] IMO Ben is responsible for the whole thing.[/quote]
That’s why Michael couldn’t die UNTIL Ben killed Keamy. The island needed Ben to be responsible for the death of “innocent people” as Locke said. Up until that time, Michael did not serve the island’s purpose. He may have served Ben’s purpose but not the Island’s.
[quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?
Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
————-
I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”
Rewatching the freighter explode, I don’t see how Jin could have survived. There isn’t any hint of him jumping and the O6 are looking right at the boat, they would have seen him jump.
[quote comment="228389"][quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?
Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
————-
I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”[/quote]
++++++++++
Yep, yep.
Oh forgive me if I missed someone mentioning this…
The video got stuck on rewind so we wouldn’t know exactly what happens in the white room. Then Ben ruins it. What up with that? Is the white room destroyed? Why destroy it and NOT tell us what really happens?
But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.
Remember, Ben always has a plan!
[quote comment="228352"][quote comment="227919"]yall r making too much of the bomb….if the island didnt want the bomb to go off it would not have…but jacob showed up and the bomb exploded, so yes the island blew up the freighter cause it does not want anyone to leave….[/quote]
Of course you also need to take into account Ben knew the boat would explode if Keamy died and he still killed him. IMO Ben is responsible for the whole thing.[/quote]
*****************************
Keamy called Ben’s bluff (and killed Alex), and now Ben has called Keamy’s bluff (and let the boat blow up). Both thought the other would NEVER do it.
[quote comment="228129"]Matthew Gilbert of the Boston Globe made a great connection in his review of the finale:
“That Jack will most likely bring Locke’s body back to the island raises interesting questions about the original flight 815. Jack’s father’s body was on that plane — was he being returned to the island in the same way Locke must be returned? Is some kind of history repeating itself now, as Jack tries to get back to the island with Locke‘s body?”[/quote]
That’s a pretty cool thought.
[quote comment="228403"]But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.
Remember, Ben always has a plan![/quote]
****************************
Ben is still absolutely committed to the island. He knew as soon as Locke told him Jacob wanted the island moved, just what it would cost him, and he did it without hesitating. Even now, he shows up at Locke/Bentham’s funeral home (still think he may be dead) still trying to protect the island and do its bidding. He is NOT a bitter man who was thrown out by the island. He is a devoted follower who is doing what needs to be done, whatever the personal cost to him, absolutely committed.
[quote comment="228400"]Oh forgive me if I missed someone mentioning this…
The video got stuck on rewind so we wouldn’t know exactly what happens in the white room. Then Ben ruins it. What up with that? Is the white room destroyed? Why destroy it and NOT tell us what really happens?[/quote]
I don’t think it was completely destroyed. I think that was the only way Ben could get to the Wheel of Fortune. He used it as his own C4 to get thorugh the wall. If only he knew how much was on the freighter he could have asked Keamy for a favor before taking out his jugular. Does that wand give Ben “James Bond” like skills or what?
Another random thought. I had mentioned that I think the others are dead and whisperers that show themselves. I don’t think that they are all natives of the island as a race. The scene when Locke walks up on them they are made up of several races.
[quote comment="228024"]Can someone please enlighten me on the following:
Why did the island choose to ‘release’ Michael at this particular moment and not before? How did that serve a greater purpose because it didn’t seem like he sacrificed his life to save anyone because everyone on the freighter except Sun and Desmond died anyway? Him freezing the battery may have bought them some time but, again, it only saveed Sun and Desmond.[/quote]
Sun and Desmond = Libby and Analucia. He killed two, he saved two.
[quote comment="228285"]Sun told Widmore that the O6 were not the only ones who left the island.
I assume she was talking about Desmond and the pilot. Why would Widmore care about those two leaving the island.
Are Penny and Desmond hiding from Penny’s dad?[/quote]
I think Widmore is hiding them from Ben. Widmore is still hunting Ben, who Sun blames for Jin’s (alleged) death. I think she is referring to Ben when she says they both know that others got off.
Hands up – who believes everything Ben says?
Can the person that moves the island never realy return?
Can Ben really help Jack get back to the island?
Did Ben really have a plan as he gave himself up and did that plan include the knowledge that he would be rescued in the immediate future?
[quote comment="228431"]
Widmore is still hunting Ben, who Sun blames for Jin’s (alleged) death. [/quote]
I thought it wa pretty clear that the other person Sun blamed was Jack not Widmore.
Thoughts from a first-time poster:
1. I think that Jin is still alive. Writers love to make it look like major characters are dead so that they can bring them back in surprising ways. I think that Sun believes that Jin could still be alive, and for that reason she is trying to find the Island. Since Widmore already found the Island once, she goes to him for assistance (“we have common interests”.) Even though she knows he’s evil, she could be so blinded by her love for Jin that she is willing to work with him anyway. Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father. He already feels a lot of guilt for betraying his friends; if it was his baby, he’d feel guilty and confused, not elated. He is happy for Jin and Sun because they were friends.
2. Charlotte is too young to be Annie, but she could be Annie’s daughter. Maybe Annie grows up on the Island, falls in love, and has a daughter. Ben would be jealous, but would still love her. Maybe he allowed Annie and her daughter (Charlotte) to escape before the purge. (This would make a cool FB episode for Ben.) (Although I still think this is a long shot; I think the writers will come up with a unique story for Charlotte.)
And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. I think that John will turn out to be a flawed leader too, and I agree with the people who say that John probably came back because he had to move the Island.
3. I think that Ben might have a sinister motive in trying to get people back to the Island. If Jack was supposed to stay on the Island, Ben would have known (he always knows.) So why did he encourage Jack to leave right during that scene with Locke at the Orchid Station? Maybe bringing Jack and the others back is a way for him to be allowed back on the Island? The writers have been making Ben seem like a possible good guy for a while know, so I think there has to be a surprise twist coming . . .
[quote comment="228403"]But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.
Remember, Ben always has a plan![/quote]
He’s also got “a few ideas” for Jack on how to return to the island. Did Ben visit Kate and that’s how he found out Jack has Been flying again?
[quote comment="228302"][quote comment="228101[/quote]
That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
++++++++++++++
He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with your thought of Alpert being dead. I thought that the minute we heard the whispers and he emerged from the jungle. If you go back to the whisper transcripts you will find his name once or twice. A womens voice says “Richard”
So Ben allows Keamy to die which he knew would blow up the freighter not caring if he killed innocent people. This is the same reason he gave Michael why he shouldn’t blow it to begin with. Is this because for that breif moment he had a laspse in judgment and was fuled by revenge?
Charlotte was conceived on the island but her mother had to leave the island to give birth so they wouldn’t die. That is why Charlotte’s words were so carefully chosen.
So, I may be slow, but WHY do the O6 have to lie? I’ve heard “to protect themselves”, “to protect those still on the island”, “to protect the island itself”. OK, but protect X from what? Please help me understand what would likely happen if the 06 walked off the plane, into the press conference, and told the complete “truth” as they understood it. What happens that is so bad?
[quote comment="228439"] Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father.
And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. [/quote]
I do agree about the “Michael not being the father” theory. But what if he was. Walt would have half-sister, born in a different country, that he is unaware of….Sound familiar.
I have stated in previous threads that I find it odd that pregnant island women die around the same time as Ben’s mother did. Too much of a coincidence. So I could see under another island “leader” that babies were once concieved and born on the island.
[quote comment="228451"]So Ben allows Keamy to die which he knew would blow up the freighter not caring if he killed innocent people. This is the same reason he gave Michael why he shouldn’t blow it to begin with. Is this because for that breif moment he had a laspse in judgment and was fuled by revenge?[/quote]
That and the “rules” changed, or at least the rules HE played by.
Here are the occupations listed on the intro video on octagonglobalrecruiting.com/
Microbiologists
Psychologists
Parapsychologists
Zoologists
Physicists
Mathematicians
Botanical Researchers
Engineers
Builders
Drivers
Health Care Workers
Communication Specialists
Neuroscientists
Janitors
Engineers
Biologists
Astrophysicists
Ex-Military
Electricians
Vets
IVF Consultants
Teachers
Architects
Ichthyologists
Transport Mechanics
Immunologists
Nurses
Illustrators
Auditors
Minibus Drivers
Recycling Coordinators
Aeronautical Engineers
Horticulturalists
Dentists
Taking the first letter of each occupation starting from the bottom and going up, gives:
DHARMA INITIATIVE….and then a bunch of jumbled letters. Can anyone decode the other letters?
Also, they are looking for IVF consultants. Did DI know of the fertility problems on the island?
[quote comment="228468"][quote comment="228451"]So Ben allows Keamy to die which he knew would blow up the freighter not caring if he killed innocent people. This is the same reason he gave Michael why he shouldn’t blow it to begin with. Is this because for that breif moment he had a laspse in judgment and was fuled by revenge?[/quote]
That and the “rules” changed, or at least the rules HE played by.[/quote]
####################
Ah yes, i beleive you are right
[quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="228270"]
But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]
Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.
: ) P[/quote]
——————-
Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.
[quote comment="228459"][quote comment="228439"] Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father.
And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. [/quote]
I do agree about the “Michael not being the father” theory. But what if he was. Walt would have half-sister, born in a different country, that he is unaware of….Sound familiar.
I have stated in previous threads that I find it odd that pregnant island women die around the same time as Ben’s mother did. Too much of a coincidence. So I could see under another island “leader” that babies were once concieved and born on the island.[/quote]
In the case of Locke, prematurely.
So do you think when Ben shows up at Nadia’s funeral…was that just a few days after he moved the island? Makes his answer to Sayid’s question of “how did you get off the island?” sound pretty silly…if Sayid saw what had happened when the island was moved…why would he believe Ben’s “I used Des’s boat” story?
[quote comment="228478"][quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="228270"]
But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]
Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.
: ) P[/quote]
——————-
Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.[/quote]
————-
Boy would I have liked to have been on That boat for a week.
Sun: “So Penny, what exactly does your father do again?”
Penny: “He’s a wealthy industrialist, who despises the man I fell in love with. And how about your father?”
Sun: “He is the CEO of Paik Heavy Industries who also despises the man I fell in love with. Do you have any money I can borrow?”
[quote comment="228509"][quote comment="228478"][quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="228270"]
But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]
Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.
: ) P[/quote]
——————-
Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.[/quote]
————-
Boy would I have liked to have been on That boat for a week.
Sun: “So Penny, what exactly does your father do again?”
Penny: “He’s a wealthy industrialist, who despises the man I fell in love with. And how about your father?”
Sun: “He is the CEO of Paik Heavy Industries who also despises the man I fell in love with. Do you have any money I can borrow?”[/quote]
————–
LOL.
[quote comment="228509"][quote comment="228478"][quote comment="228332"][quote comment="228135"]In real life, rich people, big corporations and corrupt leaders have been known to influence the media in a way that settles people’s qualms about big scary things that don’t make a lot of sense.
This is now happening on LOST.
I expect that there will be some conspiracy theorists in the general population that question the official story in S5 or S6. They will be called quacks and their patriotism will be called into question. Whether or not the real story ever comes to light, who knows.
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="228270"]
But there’s no big corporation or corrupt leader making their story up. Just Jack.[/quote]
Jack came up with the lie, had a week on Penny’s boat with six+ other adults to come up with the fine details. If Penny knew things, she would might have been happy to help screw over her evil father (you know these people all have daddy issues!). Oceanic, Widmore, and possibly Paik, have good reason to perpetuate that lie, whether they believe it or not. But SOMEONE with BIG BUCKS – whoever put that faux plane in the Sunda Trench – knows FULL WELL that it is a lie.
: ) P[/quote]
——————-
Yeah, clearly the fake plane crash is a big cover-up by someone with power/affluence. I was thinking more about the reason the O6 made up that story. There was a lot of speculation as to the “big reason” why they were lying. It was on everyone’s list of questions. But it was really just Jack’s idea, given to him by Locke, quickly planned out by the O6, so it was no big shocker or revelation.[/quote]
————-
Boy would I have liked to have been on That boat for a week.
Sun: “So Penny, what exactly does your father do again?”
Penny: “He’s a wealthy industrialist, who despises the man I fell in love with. And how about your father?”
Sun: “He is the CEO of Paik Heavy Industries who also despises the man I fell in love with. Do you have any money I can borrow?”[/quote]
————————-
LOL
[quote comment="228507"]So do you think when Ben shows up at Nadia’s funeral…was that just a few days after he moved the island? Makes his answer to Sayid’s question of “how did you get off the island?” sound pretty silly…if Sayid saw what had happened when the island was moved…why would he believe Ben’s “I used Des’s boat” story?[/quote]
#########################
From the day of rescue Day 108 to scene with Sayid and Ben in Tunisia 10 months had passed. Dec 2004-Oct 2005
[quote comment="228519"]
From the day of rescue Day 108 to scene with Sayid and Ben in Tunisia 10 months had passed. Dec 2004-Oct 2005[/quote]
Not for Ben. But Sayid wouldn’t know this. Just because he saw the island move doesn’t mean Sayid would know that he traveled to the future. It is puzzling why Sayid wouldn’t have asked him something like “Hey, where did the island go?” But as far as he knew Ben was still on it.
[quote comment="228183"]So on the TNPLH Part 1 thread, I said that maybe Sun was the Economist…sounds like that might be more accepted now than it was then…I think someone mentioned at that time that there’s no way Sayid would kill Sun, but after last night’s episode…what if he wasn’t trying to find her to kill her? What if Ben had him killing all the Widmore people around her so that Sayid could convince her to come back to the island? I think it’s probably obvious that Ben sent Sayid to collect Hurley for the same purpose? Why not Sun too?[/quote]
So when Sayid tells Hurley he’s taking him someplace safe, he’s referring to the island?
[quote comment="228519"][quote comment="228507"]So do you think when Ben shows up at Nadia’s funeral…was that just a few days after he moved the island? Makes his answer to Sayid’s question of “how did you get off the island?” sound pretty silly…if Sayid saw what had happened when the island was moved…why would he believe Ben’s “I used Des’s boat” story?[/quote]
#########################
From the day of rescue Day 108 to scene with Sayid and Ben in Tunisia 10 months had passed. Dec 2004-Oct 2005[/quote]
*********************
I understand that time had passed as far as Sayid was concerned…but still, after seeing the island disappear and assuming Ben was on it, even if it was 10 months prior, his answer of using Des’s boat just doesn’t make sense to me…obviously it was a lie, but Sayid was there looking into the ocean where the island used to be and there was nothing in sight…no boat or anything…these are the things that keep me up at night!!
[quote comment="228255"][quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Claire.[/quote]
——————————
Themselves. Remember, he mentioned the plane being planted on the bottom of the ocean? He knows (thinks) that if they come out talking about the island, they’ll all end up dead.
[quote comment="228459"][quote comment="228439"] Oh, and I absolutely agree that there is no way that Michael is the father.
And, I think that babies used to be born on the Island; I think that Ben probably turned out to be a flawed/power hungry leader and then the Island started to punish him by not letting women have children and giving him cancer. [/quote]
I do agree about the “Michael not being the father” theory. But what if he was. Walt would have half-sister, born in a different country, that he is unaware of….Sound familiar.
I have stated in previous threads that I find it odd that pregnant island women die around the same time as Ben’s mother did. Too much of a coincidence. So I could see under another island “leader” that babies were once concieved and born on the island.[/quote]
————————————
That’s an interesting point – but I just don’t see HOW Michael and Sun could’ve done the nasty in private. Maybe I’m just being unimaginative, I’m sure it could’ve happened – but I guess what I don’t buy is that they could’ve done it without it becoming part of the Lost narrative earlier.
[quote comment="228389"][quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?
Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
————-
I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”[/quote]
——————————————
My thought was that Locke was travelling freely between the island and civilization, just like Ben did (we think). Something went wrong – not sure if that’s because Charlotte’s still on the island and maybe the rest of the freighter tots who were in the zodiac on their way back to the freighter from the island when the one blew up and the othe moved, or if it’s the Others. But when it went wrong, Jacob told him that it’s because the 6 left and that he had to bring them back. So John left the island to convince them to come back and someone killed him while he was in LA. The same someone who’s stalking Hurley and following Sayid.
I’m also not 100% sure that Christian is a “good guy” or isn’t working to his own motives. Something about the look on Claire’s face when she’s in the cabin seemed a little off. Also, there’s the conflict b/w John trying to get the 6 back to the island, Ben saying that’s what had to happen, and Claire telling Kate not to bring “him” back to the island (whether she means Aaron or Jack is kind of a moot point – although maybe she means Ben??).
Far-fetched, but maybe Charlie Pace, Charles Widmore, and Charlotte Lewis are all somehow related. They all hail from England anyways…
Glad to see that Sawyer is back to his funny nick-names.
[quote comment="228358"][quote comment="228334"]New questions raised:
2) why does Miles want to stay?
*snip*
I’ve read all these comments and a couple questions I have that I haven’t yet seen:
1) Why was Kate apologizing to Aaron so much?[/quote]
I think Miles wants to stay because he is curious. I think that is why he agreed to go in the first place. He is a scientist and he wants to know MORE.
I think Kate was apologizing because her dream of Claire was a “wake-up call” and she realizes maybe they should have stayed. I believe that will be the beginning of KATE’s downward spiral which will eventually lead to her standing at the end of a runway, in the middle of the night, doped up on pills and screaming, “We have to go BACK!”
LOL
: ) P[/quote]
——————————-
About Miles – maybe he wants to stay because of the abundance of dead people on the island. It probably feels more like home to him because everyone else can see the DP too.
[quote comment="228458"]So, I may be slow, but WHY do the O6 have to lie? I’ve heard “to protect themselves”, “to protect those still on the island”, “to protect the island itself”. OK, but protect X from what? Please help me understand what would likely happen if the 06 walked off the plane, into the press conference, and told the complete “truth” as they understood it. What happens that is so bad?[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^
Moreover, how in the bloody hell are they protecting an island that can vanish into thin air at any point and time as far as they know. They know the island disappeared, so even if they told some semblance of the story…so what, no one can find it.
Now that time travel has been introduced, despite what I thought was denied by D&C, I can now go back and believe the theory that they are/were in purgatory.
They are also starting to abuse the dream sequence schtick.
Well I read all 379 comments after a riveting show. Some more mysteries and comments:
Why did the video start rewinding when Locke was watching the rabbit time travel sequence?
I believe that sawyer whispered in Kates ear that whatever happens to me, please make sure you take care of Clementine (his daughter) and tell her I love her.
Absolute funniest scene was when Frank says “we’d make it a helluva lot farther if we just dropped 100 lbs.” and the camera did a closeup of Hurley really nervous.
I believe that the island has been there for centuries and that it must continually find a leader to guide its destiny. Jacob> Ben>Locke> and finally to Aaron.
Don’t think Jin could survive but I guess nobody is ever dead for sure there.
[quote comment="228154"][quote So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Would it make much sense if Jack says: “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, and mysterious others. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.” Um…I doubt he’d say that, or everything else they’ve all done to survive.[/quote]
——–
HA!
That’s one of the funniest comments I ever read on here…and just the basic truth!
And as they drag Jack off to Hugo’s room to be his new roomate; …”and it cures cancer too…”
Good one Lost Chicka!
[quote comment="228554"][quote comment="228389"][quote comment="228336"][quote comment="228264"]My possible theory on Locke. After the O6 leave the island, something goes wrong and Locke is forced to move the island again. As we now know, those who move the island cannot go back so Locke is returned to the real world. Somehow, he knows that in order to save the island and the people left behind, Jack and the O6 must return. Locke knows that he also must return, but since he moved the island, he cannot return while alive. Therefore, he commits suicide so that his body can be returned, knowing that he will become a Christian Shepard like entity…or Jacob?
Probably totaly wrong, but thought I’d share.[/quote]
I think you are onto something for sure.[/quote]
————-
I like it. Maybe after returning to the real world he has another visit by Abaddon who steers him in the right direction. Abaddon did tell Locke “And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.”[/quote]
——————————————
My thought was that Locke was travelling freely between the island and civilization, just like Ben did (we think). Something went wrong – not sure if that’s because Charlotte’s still on the island and maybe the rest of the freighter tots who were in the zodiac on their way back to the freighter from the island when the one blew up and the othe moved, or if it’s the Others. But when it went wrong, Jacob told him that it’s because the 6 left and that he had to bring them back. So John left the island to convince them to come back and someone killed him while he was in LA. The same someone who’s stalking Hurley and following Sayid.
[/quote]
I like that theory. The only problem is the only time we have ever seen Ben off the island, before being brought their by his father, has been AFTER he moved it. So we don’t really know if he is able to travel on/off like Alpert, that is just assumed. Maybe the island “leader” can’t leave until they move it?
Also WOULD Locke be able to walk? If not I doubt he would ever leave willingly.
How come Sawyer did not hear the explosion when he was swiming to the beach
He did not realize anything until he turned around after Jullettte told him ????? does not make sense.
I think Jin is still alive he jumped before the explosion because he knew how long it would take to exploed
I dont think that Charlette is Annie at all does not add up
I wonder how there all going to get back to the island together??? Charter a plane
Walt will make his way back to the island as well
[quote comment="228358"]
I think Miles wants to stay because he is curious. I think that is why he agreed to go in the first place. He is a scientist and he wants to know MORE.
[/quote]
I stated a couple of threads ago that MAYBE he was Halliwax’s ( The Scientist ) son.
[quote comment="228558"]
About Miles – maybe he wants to stay because of the abundance of dead people on the island. It probably feels more like home to him because everyone else can see the DP too.[/quote]
There is definitely something more to Miles. He can do more than just HEAR dead people . How does he know Red was on the island before?
Does anyone know how Clarie dies
Why would her mother fly all the way to LA from Aus. just for a servcie did jake tell kate about Clare being his sister
What took so long for kate to find saywers daughter
[quote comment="228572"]Does anyone know how Clarie dies
Why would her mother fly all the way to LA from Aus. just for a servcie did jake tell kate about Clare being his sister
What took so long for kate to find saywers daughter[/quote]
IF Claire is dead, it would have been the house explosion.
[quote comment="228302"]
That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
++++++++++++++
He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmmm, I hadn’t thought of that before. Had you mentioned it before this – sorry if I missed it.
But you do know that the whispers are not only associated with dead people, right? I just listened to one of the recent podcasts, and they stated that when we saw Harper appear to Jack and Juliet in The Other Woman, that really was Harper. And there were whispers before she appeared. So I don’t think the fact that we heard whispers definitely means Richard is dead, but the fact that Richard never seems to age could be explained by him actually being dead. (As Christian is dead)
[quote comment="228561"]
Absolute funniest scene was when Frank says “we’d make it a helluva lot farther if we just dropped 100 lbs.” and the camera did a closeup of Hurley really nervous.
[/quote]
I liked the scene when Locke told Jack he was gonna have to lie “to protect the island.”
BEN: “Am I interrupting?
Jack turns and aims the gun at Ben.
BEN: “Nice to see you too Jack.”
BEN: “Couldn’t dind the Anthuriums could you?”
LOCKE: ” I don’t even know what they look like.”
I thought that was hilarious. Ben was like let’s go rookie and proceded with HIS plan.
Here’s the wiki page for anthurium someone inquired about them earlier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthurium
[quote comment="228574"][quote comment="228302"]
That all sounds plausible. But how does Ben’s line to Alpert, “You remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?” fit in? I took that line to be a clue that Alpert somehow does not get older.[/quote]
++++++++++++++
He appeared during the whispers, I am thinking he’s dead.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmmm, I hadn’t thought of that before. Had you mentioned it before this – sorry if I missed it.
But you do know that the whispers are not only associated with dead people, right? I just listened to one of the recent podcasts, and they stated that when we saw Harper appear to Jack and Juliet in The Other Woman, that really was Harper. And there were whispers before she appeared. So I don’t think the fact that we heard whispers definitely means Richard is dead, but the fact that Richard never seems to age could be explained by him actually being dead. (As Christian is dead)[/quote]
Yes, ToeKnee I do. Haven’t you read my theory? I was using both the fact that he appeared during whispers and doesn’t SEEM to age to theorize he is dead. That’s all.
Oh, also, IF one were to buy into Alpert being a whisperer and it is really him who appears, it COULD also apply to Harper….no?
Real quick, I meant to put a
after “haven’t you read my theory”, that must have sounded snippy and it wasn’t intended.
I think the series will end in two years with Jack becoming the leader of the Others/island.. because we least expect it and because it depicts a coming of age from reason to faith over the course of the show for him.. hes been a natural leader from day one and will eventually assume his throne as leader of the island
and Jacob is actually Jack.. an extension of his name.. the entity of Jacob that cannot be seen is a futuristic ‘whisper’ like the past whispers of those who have died since the whole premise of the show has been revealed now to be based on folding of the space time continuum.. his whispers are telling the current leaders like Ben and Locke how to go about furthering and fulfilling the destiny of the island to ensure the future occurs (Jack/Jacob becoming the leader)
other factors pointing to this conclusion are his spokesperson in the cabin being his father christian.. who may have been a previous leader.. and his sister claire now being present in the cabin..
Jack/Jacob most likely told Locke to bring them all back because its necessary to fulfill the destiny.. by bringing him back and the future leader after Jack.. his nephew by bloodline Aaron
[quote comment="228581"]Real quick, I meant to put a
after “haven’t you read my theory”, that must have sounded snippy and it wasn’t intended.[/quote]
)
No, no – I didn’t think you were being snippy. (although I couldn’t blame you, with the Pistons on the brink of elimination!
I have read that Whispers thread, although I haven’t checked it in at least a week. And I didn’t recall you saying specifically that Richard is dead. But I suppose if I were to put 1+1 together I’d get 2 (i.e., The Whisperers are dead people, Richard may be one of the Whisperers, so if he is, he must be dead).
[quote comment="228565"][quote comment="228154"][quote So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Would it make much sense if Jack says: “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, and mysterious others. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.” Um…I doubt he’d say that, or everything else they’ve all done to survive.[/quote]
——–
HA!
That’s one of the funniest comments I ever read on here…and just the basic truth!
And as they drag Jack off to Hugo’s room to be his new roomate; …”and it cures cancer too…”
Good one Lost Chicka![/quote]
now they escort jack to santa rosa to bcome hurley’s new roomate. and together they shall play chess with mr. ecko. 
____
thank you but i forgot 2 other vital pieces of information: Jack Says “Hey, I’m Jack Shepheard. We all just got off this island with polar bears, boars, smoke monsters, A CRAZY FRENCH CHICK, and mysterious others. WHILE WE WERE THERE WE BLEW UP A COUPLE OF THESE DHARMA INTIATIVE HATCHES. You can’t go back to it tho, bcuz it just dissapeared.”
[quote comment="228586"][quote comment="228581"]Real quick, I meant to put a
after “haven’t you read my theory”, that must have sounded snippy and it wasn’t intended.[/quote]
)
No, no – I didn’t think you were being snippy. (although I couldn’t blame you, with the Pistons on the brink of elimination!
I have read that Whispers thread, although I haven’t checked it in at least a week. And I didn’t recall you saying specifically that Richard is dead. But I suppose if I were to put 1+1 together I’d get 2 (i.e., The Whisperers are dead people, Richard may be one of the Whisperers, so if he is, he must be dead).[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++
I’ve left it very loose in the post. Because Harper appeared and at the time we assumed she is alive. I’m not fully committed to the others being dead, it’s just part of my very fluid theory. I just feel that there is a bombshell waiting for us about the whisperers because they appear so often. I think some things that the writers started before they were given an end date my not get followed through on, but they keep using whispers. So I think I have to stay fluid in my theory.
[quote comment="228586"]No, no – I didn’t think you were being snippy. (although I couldn’t blame you, with the Pistons on the brink of elimination!
)
[/quote]
Oooh, that’s cold. We’ll see!
Thats right what happened to Harper?
Is she dead or alive
[quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
Is she dead or alive[/quote]
Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.
New rule?
No Sports Jabber…
or I’m gonna start talking about my favorite abstract painters.
Go Mets!
[quote comment="228605"]New rule?
No Sports Jabber…
or I’m gonna start talking about my favorite abstract painters.
Go Mets![/quote]
Pistons go down, NBA gets what they wanted.
[quote comment="228606"][quote comment="228605"]New rule?
No Sports Jabber…
or I’m gonna start talking about my favorite abstract painters.
Go Mets![/quote]
Pistons go down, NBA gets what they wanted.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My condolences, Hammer. At least your Wings are looking good. Go C’s!
[quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
Is she dead or alive[/quote]
Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.
Hey JCK, post #362, I think Faraday may have gotten his knowledge about the Orchid from Charlotte. Maybe she told him, maybe he was some how was able to study her (like the rat) and gain info about the Orchid.
I think the reason Ben is saying that everyone has to go back to the island (I’m assuming he will include Desmond in this)is because he wants the help in finding Desmond and by default Penny so he can get his revenge on Whitmore by killing Penny.
What did Sawyer whisper to Kate before jumping?
I don’t know if this has been discussed before since I just happened on to this blog {which I’m very excited about!}, but it really bugs me that Aaron supposedly survived without getting any mama’s milk. How did they feed the kid? And it also really bugs me that they never showed Claire breastfeeding, just mentioned “feeding Aaron.” They could have at least showed her doing it with a blanket over her or something. Breastfeeding is natural, especially when you birth the kid on an island!
[quote comment="228616"]What did Sawyer whisper to Kate before jumping?[/quote]
I think he told her about his daughter and asked her to keep an eye on her for him.
[quote comment="228557"]Far-fetched, but maybe Charlie Pace, Charles Widmore, and Charlotte Lewis are all somehow related. They all hail from England anyways…
Glad to see that Sawyer is back to his funny nick-names.
[/quote]
The fact that they are all derivatives of the name Charles is interesting and when we brought it up before, I don’t think we discussed that Charles means “free man.”
However, I think the “England” connection might not be particularly meaningful. Originally Charlotte was supposed to be portrayed by Kristin Bell who is very decidedly American. I suppose they MAY have wanted her to use an English accent, but I seem to remember Rebecca Mader saying that D&C changed the part to make Charlotte British because they liked Rebecca’s accent so much.
I guess she had auditioned in an American accent and then when they heard her real speaking voice, asked her to read in her own accent, and then changed the character to fit the actress.
This would not be out of character for TPTB. The producers CREATED roles for Yunjin Kim and Jorge Garcia after they read for other parts.
: ) P
Another question: How could heroic Jack justify escaping on the helicopter when there were other people on the boat, including the first set of survivors who had been ferried from the island and the people who worked onboard the ship. Wouldn’t they all have been clamoring around begging to be allowed onboard?
Who is Harper?
So im watching the finale over again.. and Yunjin Kim (Sun) did a really good job acting when she saw the ship blow up. I got chills both times watching that scene!!
Did anyone think that Claire’s face looked wide? No offense to Emilie de Ravin (if she is reading this), but I was wondering if was really pregnant when this was shot?
Maybe that’s why she is off with the dead people…they had to get rid of her for awhile while she has a baby (a real baby).
If you discussed this already, sorry. I did the control-f thing to see if it was discussed.
[quote comment="228620"]Another question: How could heroic Jack justify escaping on the helicopter when there were other people on the boat, including the first set of survivors who had been ferried from the island and the people who worked onboard the ship. Wouldn’t they all have been clamoring around begging to be allowed onboard?[/quote]
——–
Because Jack is really not a hero at all. And yeah, most of the Freighties wudda been crazy to get on the chopper but seems most had no clue about the C-4?
Or why wuddint they be jumping off the sides?
Ok, just thought of something that bugged me;
How Ben tells Locke how to get to the Orchids and what switches to pull to move the Island…and he can’t even get past the first door!
What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? Am I the only one who thought that was very strange? Seems not very well thought out by the writers…almost no one would have figured that out so why even write the part about him telling Locke anything?
It’s like telling someone to do brain surgery and handing me a bottle of aspirin and walking off.
But, yeah, I look past this stuff and dig it anyway.
Can I get a job as an advisor on the show?
I promise to bring back the polar Bear!
Hey, how many toes does a Polar Bear have?
Maybe the statue is a Bear?
You heard it here first.
[quote comment="228630"]
What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? [/quote]
Maybe Ben just wanted Locke to go down there and explore for awhile, because he sure was in a hurry when he came back. I don’t think he expected Locke to move the island if that is what you are hinting at. That seemed to be Ben’s “job”. Locke just delivered him the message from Jacob.
[quote comment="228625"]Who is Harper?[/quote]
Harper Stanhope. Juliet was sleeping with her husband Goodwin. Here is a link from lostpedia.com.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Harper_Stanhope
[quote comment="228610"][quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
Is she dead or alive[/quote]
Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.[/quote]
++++++++++++
You are prob. correct, can’t seem to find the transcript. I’ll have to listen again.
This has probably already been talked about, but when Rita posted somewhere up there about Aaron and Jin Yeon being Adam and Eve, it got me thinking – the black and white might be yin and yang (more than a racial call-out). I think there’s something to the idea of them specifically having to go back to the island – also plays into the fortune teller’s reading of Claire.
[quote comment="228585"]I think the series will end in two years with Jack becoming the leader of the Others/island.. because we least expect it and because it depicts a coming of age from reason to faith over the course of the show for him.. hes been a natural leader from day one and will eventually assume his throne as leader of the island
and Jacob is actually Jack.. an extension of his name.. the entity of Jacob that cannot be seen is a futuristic ‘whisper’ like the past whispers of those who have died since the whole premise of the show has been revealed now to be based on folding of the space time continuum.. his whispers are telling the current leaders like Ben and Locke how to go about furthering and fulfilling the destiny of the island to ensure the future occurs (Jack/Jacob becoming the leader)
other factors pointing to this conclusion are his spokesperson in the cabin being his father christian.. who may have been a previous leader.. and his sister claire now being present in the cabin..
Jack/Jacob most likely told Locke to bring them all back because its necessary to fulfill the destiny.. by bringing him back and the future leader after Jack.. his nephew by bloodline Aaron[/quote]
That is very interesting. Surprised no one has given you any feedback on it. Maybe because nobody seems to like Jack.
Here’s just a thought that may be relevant to the timelines:
Ben and Locke go to the Orchid. Ben starts filling it up with metal, to Locke’s dismay. Ben starts the machine, which blows a big hole in the wall. According to the video, the machine was built in close proximity to an anomaly that had been discovered (the wheel – although I suspect Dharma never found the actual wheel). If this had been done before, the hole would already be there. The wheel room was built in Jacob-fashion, ie the oil lamp and the old wooden ladders. Instead of entering a sequence in a computer (DI style), one had to turn a mechanical wheel.
So, I’ll throw out the theory that the island has not been moved since at least the beginning of the DI, sometime in the early to mid-Seventies.
[quote comment="228567"]How come Sawyer did not hear the explosion when he was swiming to the beach
He did not realize anything until he turned around after Jullettte told him ????? does not make sense.
Walt will make his way back to the island as well[/quote]
I wondered that as well but figured if you are swimming in the ocean, the waves are probably pretty loud and your head is sometimes under water. The ship was far enough out that by the time the sound got to him, it was pretty toned down.
As far as Walt, Wow! He is growing into his features, not so awkward looking anymore. He MUST play some important role in the future or else they wouldn’t have had him coming clear across the country to see Hurley. I laughed when his grandma asked Hurley if he was dangerous (is that what she asked??) because I don’t think anyone who is mentally unstable will say YES, I AM!!! However, with that said, I don’t think Hurley is truly mentally unstable.
[quote comment="228632"][quote comment="228630"]
What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? [/quote]
Maybe Ben just wanted Locke to go down there and explore for awhile, because he sure was in a hurry when he came back. I don’t think he expected Locke to move the island if that is what you are hinting at. That seemed to be Ben’s “job”. Locke just delivered him the message from Jacob.[/quote]
I agree. Locke was not supposed to actually move the island, if he did, he wouldn’t be able to return. Ben knew it was his job to do it, otherwise once down there, he could have instructed Locke on what to do and not told him he couldn’t return. Ben has lied and been sneaky in the past (Seriously… LOL)and I am a little surprised that he didn’t tell Locke how to do it!
[quote comment="228722"][quote comment="228632"][quote comment="228630"]
What did Ben expect? He never told Locke about piling metal in the portal…how to manipulate the dials…about blowing the hole to get down to the Wheel did he? [/quote]
Maybe Ben just wanted Locke to go down there and explore for awhile, because he sure was in a hurry when he came back. I don’t think he expected Locke to move the island if that is what you are hinting at. That seemed to be Ben’s “job”. Locke just delivered him the message from Jacob.[/quote]
I agree. Locke was not supposed to actually move the island, if he did, he wouldn’t be able to return. Ben knew it was his job to do it, otherwise once down there, he could have instructed Locke on what to do and not told him he couldn’t return. Ben has lied and been sneaky in the past (Seriously… LOL)and I am a little surprised that he didn’t tell Locke how to do it![/quote]
**********************************
Definitely one of Ben’s more noble acts. He told Locke that although Jacob told Locke to move the island, he didn’t tell him how to do it, because he (Jacob) wanted the consequences to fall on him (Ben). Ben knew this and fulfilled his destiny. Go Ben!!
[quote comment="228158"][quote comment="228144"]Interesting Finale. FYI…it really bothered me that they kept calling (Locke)him Jeremy Benthan. I am a History nerd and I recognized the name immediately. Jeremy Bentham was a philosopher in the 1700, who (when he died) had his body preserved to sit at the head table of the London College permanently. His head, which was decomposing, was replaced with a wax head!!! So maybe, Locke was not really Locke, but a wax replica. Read up on him. Makes an interesting possibility![/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ah, the plot thickens. I thought Jeremy Bentham was such an odd name…I was thinking that it was sort of an anagram of Benjamin – used just to throw us off for two hours, but I’m glad there is a more intriguing possibility.[/quote]
There is also an anagram for Jeremy Bentham and it pertains to Locke…”THE MERE MAN By J”
[quote comment="228629"]Did anyone think that Claire’s face looked wide? No offense to Emilie de Ravin (if she is reading this), but I was wondering if was really pregnant when this was shot?
Maybe that’s why she is off with the dead people…they had to get rid of her for awhile while she has a baby (a real baby).
If you discussed this already, sorry. I did the control-f thing to see if it was discussed.[/quote]
Guess your CTRL-F didn’t work right! LOL
See #231.
: ) P
[quote comment="228702"]Here’s just a thought that may be relevant to the timelines:
Ben and Locke go to the Orchid. Ben starts filling it up with metal, to Locke’s dismay. Ben starts the machine, which blows a big hole in the wall. According to the video, the machine was built in close proximity to an anomaly that had been discovered (the wheel – although I suspect Dharma never found the actual wheel). If this had been done before, the hole would already be there. The wheel room was built in Jacob-fashion, ie the oil lamp and the old wooden ladders. Instead of entering a sequence in a computer (DI style), one had to turn a mechanical wheel.
So, I’ll throw out the theory that the island has not been moved since at least the beginning of the DI, sometime in the early to mid-Seventies.[/quote]
I think that is a great observation. I suspect that much of DI’s outwardly visible research was intended to distract the workers from the “real” research that was going on behind closed doors.
: ) P
Im wondering when Sun went to see Widmore she said she was a manager at the company and it appeared that her father was still running things. We know she bought a controlling share so why is she letting her father seem in control? Im thinking she is keeping a low profile cause she thinks Jin is alive and wants to go back to the island to get him. That being said I also think Ben is now working for Sun. It seems the island is done with Ben he can’t go back so now he is driven to kill Penny for revenge. If Ben can help Sun get back to the island then maybe Sun can help Ben find Penny through Widmore? Not sure.
Funny thought opening scene for next season the island rises from the water catching the Raftys and Jin.
Also one other thing didn’t the island heal Jin ? He could not make babies before the island now it appears he can. Jin is special and maybe he cannot die?
Love the comments took me hours to read them all.
[quote comment="228694"]
Maybe because nobody seems to like Jack.[/quote]
I like Jack. He is easily one of the most complexed characters on the show. Some people just don’t seem to like his smugness maybe ( SMUG ALERT)? Dude had his appendix taken out , then trekked through the jungle to help them get rescued. Not really sure what is wrong with that. I am just not really sure if he is Jacob. Jack is not derived from the name Jacob. Jacob is actually a cognate of the name JAMES. HMMMM
[quote comment="228751"]Im wondering when Sun went to see Widmore she said she was a manager at the company and it appeared that her father was still running things. We know she bought a controlling share so why is she letting her father seem in control? [/quote]
She called herself the “managing director”, which in a lot of companies is the CEO. They are usually responsible for the daily running of the company and developing business plans for the long-term future of the company.
[quote comment="227739"]This was a really great season, and is the best show ever to be on television.
Question:
Do Desmond and Lapitus have to return with the Oceanic 6?[/quote]
No. Because D & L were not onboard 815, they can go back to civilization and say anything about were they had been. The media will not question them because they have no basis to connect them to the 815 crash.
[quote comment="227752"]Sayid said that Bentham talked to him, Hurley talked to him, they all seemed to talk to him. Bentham = Locke, but HOW did he find everyone and how did he die? Did Sayid kill him and then tell Hurley it was an apparent suicide? How did Jack know it was him when he read the obit? Oh… because he talked to him too!!! I am so confused.
Aaron is absolutely Michael’s son. When Michael asked, “Did you tell anyone?”, we were supposed to believe he was talking about the C4 but when Sun told him she is pregnant… it was OBVIOUS that there was something between them.
As my niece would say, “Oh My Stars!!!!” What a great night for LOST!!!![/quote]
I’m on the side that believes Mike is NOT the father of Sun’s baby. I think they threw that scene in there to fuel the speculation of that possibility. Toss in the bait and fish will bite.
[quote comment="227991"]Jack turning to lying to protect the others seems not to make much sense to me. For all they knew, there was noone left on the island except for sawyer (who for all they knew drowned), Locke (who Jack could care less about), Ben (ditto), Juliet (who may or may not have been on the raft), miles (dont care) , farraday (dont care) ,Charlotte (dont care) and the others. So who did he want to protect?[/quote]
Ben tells Jack he has to lie because this is a place where miracles happen. Jack is in denial, but I think he somewhat does believe this. He knows that people will kill unconditionally regarding almost any matter concerning the island. He knows it will impossible to get the outside world to believe the truth. He knows that some of his people want to stay. He believes everyone else who wanted to leave the island is dead. I think the lying makes sense now.
Still puzzling over the directive to Locke to go down to the Orchid by Ben;
Did Ben know he would survive Keamy? I sure would not have bet on Ben in the situation. Maybe he was hoping Smokey or Patchy would show…ha.
Bet we see his dead daughter’s ghost next season.
So why didn’t Ben just say; hey look for the red flower and that’s where the door is…instead of by a name unknown to Locke (Anthuriums).
Locke seems to only know the latin for Cannibus!
Locke is getting dumber by the episode; “How many times do I HAVE to tell you…” (Ben perviously)
and then him standing there like a 10 year old asking questions as Ben hurries to blow a hole in the portal…
never seems to get it that BEn knows what he’s doing…doesn’t even ask; how the hell did you get away from that maniac Keamy!
Anyhew; Seems Ben wudda just said get thee below and wait for me.
Bygones.
As far as Dr, Jack; what the hell good did he do when the coconuts hit the fan with the Keamy Krew? Hell, Freckles did a lot more.
Funny scene; Ben asks what was promised to the Losties by Alpert…and very business like says; ok, fair enough…(something like that).
Gonna be very let down if Sun is stabbing the Losties in the back by helping Widmore. Please don’t make her into a cliche Dragon Lady. Sun’s father looks like he’s always had a bad meal…did he get a hold of a box of those old crackers Hugo ate?
Very weird feel to Alpert’s camp; like a homeless camp of hobos; if they have been on the island for so long why don’t they have better digs? Seems there’s plenty of nice bunkers on the island…and they seem to have been at this camp for a while because Ben knew they would get his signal via the mirror.
I suspect what has gone wrong on the island is a coup by Alpert after Locke won’t stop asking dumb questions. Locke getting to be like Chauncey Gardener!
(from Kosinski’s Being There)
Yeah, I thought it weird that Sawyer didn’t hear the Ship blow up either. Probably stood in front of the band’s speakers too many times at a Lynard Skinner Concert. Note to Ocean swimmers; the side stroke or back stroke will probably do better for long distances.
Sawyer went right at it with the breast stroke. (ah, I knew he was a breast man.)
Took me about an hour and a half to swim the mile in a pool when I was a boyscout. Sawyer must be part tadpole or maybe the current was with him.
Have not seen anyone mention how close the Ship was by the time it blew…looked a lot closer than the 5 miles the pilot said he was going to come because of the fuzzy navigational equipment. And how did they cover that distance in the time it seems passed if they were 90 or even 40 miles out? Looked like about 2 miles away to me.
[quote comment="228770"][quote comment="227752"][/quote]
I’m on the side that believes Mike is NOT the father of Sun’s baby. I think they threw that scene in there to fuel the speculation of that possibility. Toss in the bait and fish will bite.[/quote]
**************************
Chomp chomp nibble nibble……………
Few thoughts:
1. Absolutely will be very disappointed if Michael ends up being the father of Sun’s baby. To me it would cheapen the show to the equivelent of a soap opera. Michael and Sun were just friends (almost kissed once, but that’s all).
2. Do have serious doubts that Jin is still alive. I could see him coming back ala Christian or Charlie, but it would take a lot to explain how he could have gotten away from the sinking boat. Even if he had jumped, the sinking whirl would have pulled him under.
3. I think Miles knows that Charlotte has been on the island before- or has some connection to it- because the whispers told him. Something like one of the whisperers saying: “Hey, look ya’all, it’s Charlotte. Haven’t seen her in twenty years!”
[quote comment="228782"]
So why didn’t Ben just say; hey look for the red flower and that’s where the door is…instead of by a name unknown to Locke (Anthuriums).
Locke seems to only know the latin for Cannibus!
Locke is getting dumber by the episode; “How many times do I HAVE to tell you…” (Ben perviously)
and then him standing there like a 10 year old asking questions as Ben hurries to blow a hole in the portal…
never seems to get it that BEn knows what he’s doing…doesn’t even ask; how the hell did you get away from that maniac Keamy!
[/quote]
***********************************
I think we should give Locke a bit of a break here. I mean, how well would YOU have done without any real information about what is going on or what the heck this place is? Locke keeps being TOLD by Ben that HE is the new leader, but then Ben withholds all pertinent information. No wonder Locke is confused: we ALL would be in his situation.
Now, that said, Locke’s insecurities have no doubt gotten the best of him as the new leader (post Ben) and have caused the trouble that Ben refers to, but that is another matter.
[quote comment="228785"]Few thoughts:
2. Do have serious doubts that Jin is still alive. I could see him coming back ala Christian or Charlie, but it would take a lot to explain how he could have gotten away from the sinking boat. Even if he had jumped, the sinking whirl would have pulled him under.
[/quote]
****************************
I was pretty committed to the “Jin is alive” theory, but it is starting to look alot like when Claire blew up in her house, but looked just fine, unscathed even, afterward. Most of us now believe her to be dead, I think. Jin may be like her then: Among the “undead” maybe? I fully expect to see more of him (in some form) however. He is still central to the story.
[quote comment="228791"]
I think. Jin may be like her then: Among the “undead” maybe? I fully expect to see more of him (in some form) however. He is still central to the story.
[/quote]
yeah.. you’ll see more Jin (DUI GIN) if you want to visit him at the Hawaii State Correctional Facility during visiting hours.
[quote comment="228791"]
Most of us now believe her to be dead, I think. [/quote]
That is just a theory, Claire being dead. I don’t see how they could get away with killing off one of the ORIGINAL main characters without an explanation. We were led to believe Sawyer rescued her from the house ( ALIVE ), and later wandered off with her father then ended up in Jacob’s cabin. She doesn’t have to be dead to be in Jacob’s cabin.
At least we now know Charlie is as dead as Mr. Ekko.
When Ben said to John: “I’m sorry I made your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island, or was he talking about John’s whole life?
When Ben told John “Sorry for making your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island or John’s entire life?
Oops – I posted that twice. Sorry!
[quote comment="228788"]
***********************************
I think we should give Locke a bit of a break here. I mean, how well would YOU have done without any real information about what is going on or what the heck this place is? Locke keeps being TOLD by Ben that HE is the new leader, but then Ben withholds all pertinent information. No wonder Locke is confused: we ALL would be in his situation.
Now, that said, Locke’s insecurities have no doubt gotten the best of him as the new leader (post Ben) and have caused the trouble that Ben refers to, but that is another matter.[/quote]
———–
He already had his big break; remember when he fell out of the window?
No way!
If he’s gonna try and step up to the plate and play Leader he’s gonna have to act like one.
The stakes are too high in the life and Death game on that island.
[quote comment="229001"]When Ben told John “Sorry for making your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island or John’s entire life?[/quote]
——————————————
Good point! Because what was up with the visit to the foster home – and Locke chose the knife, and Alpert was all “are you sure that’s yours?” I think that’s going to play into the troubles after Ben leaves and Locke’s finally in charge. Maybe there was some choice between Locke and Ben that the Others had to make (both mothers named Emily, both born prematurely) – but at the same time, I don’t know what influence Ben would’ve had over whether they chose Ben or Locke to be apologizing for it. Remember when Ben saw his mother in the woods? That was the first time he met Alpert too, and there wasn’t a test. So my question is, why did they choose Ben instead of Locke? Or did they – maybe from the beginning they’ve both been chosen to have different roles? One the warrior (Ben) and the other the peace-maker (Locke)?
Sorry, to be honest, I did not read all the the posts thoroughly. Did anyone else happen to mention that John Locke and Jeremy Bentham were BOTH radical English political philosophers.
John Locke lived in the 17th Century and was influential in kicking off the French Enlightenment. Among other things he believed at birth that an infant’s brain is a clean slate and is molded only by teaching and experience. Doesn’t that sound a little bit like Lost’s Locke who believes that everybody on the island can start over from scratch?
Jeremy Bentham lived and wrote in the 18th Century. He had a radical and very expansive view of personal freedom (again that sounds to me a lot like our Locke).
Anyway, when they started talking about Jeremy Bentham, I knew that had to be a pseudonym for John Locke. I guess a liberal arts education is not a total waste in watching broadacast TV.
Two questions…
couldn’t they have just dumped all the C4 that wasn’t connected to the wires in the ocean thus making it a much smaller explosion and thus not sinking the boat?
why not just snap off the antenna from the radio receiver? Then it can’t receive a signal. Assuming it wasn’t receiving a “green” signal.
another question, which episode did SUn sleep with Michael? I have no memory of it.
[quote comment="229008"]Sorry, to be honest, I did not read all the the posts thoroughly. Did anyone else happen to mention that John Locke and Jeremy Bentham were BOTH radical English political philosophers.
[/quote]
I did not read your whole post because it has been mentioned numerous times already. There is a great feature that you can use…CTRL F. You can then search any subject like BENTHAM or JEREMY.
Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?
[quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]
I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane. I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.
: ) P
[quote comment="228772"][quote comment="227991"][/quote]
Ben tells Jack he has to lie because this is a place where miracles happen. Jack is in denial, but I think he somewhat does believe this. He knows that people will kill unconditionally regarding almost any matter concerning the island. He knows it will impossible to get the outside world to believe the truth. He knows that some of his people want to stay. He believes everyone else who wanted to leave the island is dead. I think the lying makes sense now.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^
But in telling their modified true story, why would they have to give any details about the island itself? “We were stuck on an island, not even sure where, we decided, hey we can live together on this island [(or die alone) just wanted to get a show title in] so we decided to set sail on this raft hoping we’d hit land, and we eventually did…it was a miracle, you’ll understand if we don’t want to go near an ocean again anytime soon, so please save the questions about the island.”
Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks, “Hey the damn thing disappeared, I have no clue where it is, none of us do. Push come to shove I’d even be willing to take you to where I last saw it.”
Naturally when the O6 are picked up, they’d go through some medical screenings to just get checked out I mean they’d been missing for 3 months. “Hmmm, Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh…it looks like..an appendectomy scar?” “Um, no, I uh cut myself and stitched myself up.”
Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?
[quote comment="229007"][quote comment="229001"]When Ben told John “Sorry for making your life so hard,” was he talking about John’s life on the island or John’s entire life?[/quote]
——————————————
Good point! Because what was up with the visit to the foster home – and Locke chose the knife, and Alpert was all “are you sure that’s yours?” I think that’s going to play into the troubles after Ben leaves and Locke’s finally in charge. Maybe there was some choice between Locke and Ben that the Others had to make (both mothers named Emily, both born prematurely) – but at the same time, I don’t know what influence Ben would’ve had over whether they chose Ben or Locke to be apologizing for it. Remember when Ben saw his mother in the woods? That was the first time he met Alpert too, and there wasn’t a test. So my question is, why did they choose Ben instead of Locke? Or did they – maybe from the beginning they’ve both been chosen to have different roles? One the warrior (Ben) and the other the peace-maker (Locke)?[/quote]
*************************
I wonder if Charlotte’s mother’s name was Emily
[quote comment="227752"]Sayid said that Bentham talked to him, Hurley talked to him, they all seemed to talk to him. Bentham = Locke, but HOW did he find everyone and how did he die? Did Sayid kill him and then tell Hurley it was an apparent suicide?
[/quote]
———————-
I can’t see sayid making it look like a suicide … that wouldn’t be his style. I can see the obit: Jeremy Bentham apparently committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest and head 9 times!
[quote comment="229097"][quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]
I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.
I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.
: ) P[/quote]
************************************
I had thought that they just picked 3 people who were FOR SURE dead, so that there was no possibility of them turning up one day and messing up the story (who knows who might eventually get off the island some other way?). However, if one were to pick the most likely to really make it off the plane in THEIR scenario, I wouldn’t have picked Kate, who was allegedidly 6 months pregnant and handcuffed to the marshall. I wouldn’t have picked Hurley, who wouldn’t have been the likeliest to move that fast or swim that well. The rest, OK, why not? But their own story has holes in it from the beginning. Why would ANYONE believe it I wonder?
Sorry Brothas, I am tired of the many posts about Jin surviving and was its Michael’s baby!! Jin died and its NOT michael’s baby..just get over it..and these are very minor issues and I was hoping to see comments on the crux of the episode about JeremyBentham and the time travel.
My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.
[quote comment="229214"]
My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.[/quote]
Ben and Richard have important roles with the island, so by your theory they are related to Jack also? If that is your basis, that’s a pretty shaky theory. I think Jin being alive and Michael being JI Yeon’s father holds more weight.
[quote comment="229145"]
I wonder if Charlotte’s mother’s name was Emily[/quote]
Aaron’s mother’s is.
EMILIE de Ravin
[quote comment="229214"]I was hoping to see comments on the crux of the episode about JeremyBentham and the time travel.[/quote]
Go for it. Whatcha got to share on those things? Then maybe we can comment.
: ) P
[quote comment="229103"]
Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]
[quote comment="229103"]
Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? [/quote]
It sounds like you answered your own question. Or the island really is the only thing that can kill Widmore. When it comes calling you have to end your OWN life, like Locke.
[quote comment="229097"][quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]
I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.
I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++
Charlie and Libby were near and dear to Hugo’s heart. Maybe during the lie discussion Hugo pushed for those two to pay homage. Still lost on Boone.
[quote comment="229255"][quote comment="229103"]
Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]
[quote comment="229103"]
Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? [/quote]
It sounds like you answered your own question.
Or the island really is the only thing that can kill Widmore. When it comes calling you have to end your OWN life, like Locke.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++
Did Micheal take his own life? It’s debatable, he tried to use the bomb, but the island wouldn’t let him, then when he was trying NOT to blow up….he did.
[quote comment="229291"]
Did Micheal take his own life? It’s debatable, he tried to use the bomb, but the island wouldn’t let him, then when he was trying NOT to blow up….he did.[/quote]
I don’t think he took his own life, but he knew his mission on the freighter was to die. I was suggesting that if you once had “control” of the island, we are currently led to believe Widmore, Ben, and Locke all have, maybe taking your own life is the only way to die.
BEN: We both know I can’t do that.
That damn Polar Bear must be hungry!
What the hell does he eat? Certainly not 15 year old crackers.
Maybe washed up Freighties and remains of Charlie, Ekko, Patchy, and Keamy? Musta not have liked the taste of Dharma Pit flesh.
[quote comment="229255"][quote comment="229103"]
Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]
[quote comment="229103"]
Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? [/quote]
It sounds like you answered your own question.
Or the island really is the only thing that can kill Widmore. When it comes calling you have to end your OWN life, like Locke.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^
Though that is a plausible explanation, my point with how approachable Widmore is was to suggest that he is touchable. They could’ve taken him to the island all by himself and kept him tied up ala Locke’s father.
[quote comment="229298"][quote comment="229291"]
Did Micheal take his own life? It’s debatable, he tried to use the bomb, but the island wouldn’t let him, then when he was trying NOT to blow up….he did.[/quote]
I don’t think he took his own life, but he knew his mission on the freighter was to die. I was suggesting that if you once had “control” of the island, we are currently led to believe Widmore, Ben, and Locke all have, maybe taking your own life is the only way to die.
BEN: We both know I can’t do that.[/quote]
++++++++++
Gotcha.
[quote comment="229236"][quote comment="229214"]
My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.[/quote]
Ben and Richard have important roles with the island, so by your theory they are related to Jack also?
If that is your basis, that’s a pretty shaky theory. I think Jin being alive and Michael being JI Yeon’s father holds more weight.
[/quote]
—-
It makes sense locke,jack are connected somehow. Ben/Richard know about the island but they identify aaron,claire,jack’s dad as the “key” to the island
[quote comment="229214"]Sorry Brothas, I am tired of the many posts about Jin surviving and was its Michael’s baby!! Jin died and its NOT michael’s baby..just get over it..and these are very minor issues and I was hoping to see comments on the crux of the episode about JeremyBentham and the time travel.
My thoughts…it seems that the lineage is important..jack’s dad,claire(jack’s sister), aaron (jack’s nephew) all hold very important roles with controlling/connecting to the island. For this reason I beleive that Jack and Locke are related by blood somehow.[/quote]
–
Wow..I like this idea that Locke and Jack are blood related….I will think along this line and see the possiblities.
In addition to Libby, Boone, and Charlie, the following people are known to have survived the crash of 815 but have since died: Ana Lucia, Arzt, Donald, Edwin Mars, Eko, Nathan, Nikki, Paolo, Scott, Shannon, and Steve. I purposely omitted Michael/Walt for obvious reasons and Seth Norris as it seems the pilot was visible in the “plane wreckage” footage. Since their names were mentioned at the O6 press conference as an addition to TNPLH part 1, I’m thinkin’ there’s got to be a reason. Of course, I could just be “overthinking” as well. I can see Libby and Charlie to be quite significant to things we have yet to see unfold…..but Boone? Hmmmm.
[quote comment="228295"]Yea…My Turn
1. Any significance with the flower Antheriums?
2.Hurley did not seem “crazy” at all when speaking to Walt
3.The Orchid was built 20 years ago
4.How did Miles know that Charlotte had been to the island before? I love the way he said “How DO I know? hmmmm
5.Favorite line: Sawyer calling Frank Kenny Rogers…so funny i laughed out loud
6.What would make Juliet stay on the island? Who was left for her to get off?
7.I believe Jin jumped and got on the zodiac with Daniel. Since the Hydra island dissapeared as well i am believing that the raft went with them as well. They will show up next season.
8.Oct. 24th 2005 is when Ben ended up in Tunisia. That is 10 months from when the island moved. Are we to think that the island rematerialized 10 months into the future like Ben?
9.Was the donkey wheel deliberately frozen to keep the island in check similar to what Michael did witht eh freighter bomb?
10. Does the island get all its power from the substance within the donkey wheel?
11.C.S. Lewis wrote a book called “Miracles” It is very similar to the conversation Jack and Locke at the Orchid about the possibilities of miracles.
12. Was there a videocamera in the corner of the room where the bomb was? I would like a screen cap if anyone can find one. After Michael heard the wispers he looked to the left (videocamera) and then to the right and saw CS
13. The phone call Kate received with the wispers said “the island needs you, you have to go back before it’s too late”
These are off the top of my head reading through all of your comments. Please enlighten me with answers if you have them. Thank you[/quote]
Anthuriums are hermaphodites. I don’t think that they have anything to do with anything. I certainly don’t think they were trying to tell us that Ben or Locke are hermaphrodites.
By the way, who were any of the characters with Faraday? You know that these are people who we will see next season. I just watched the episode again, and I didn’t recognize a one.
Locke and Jack are cousins
Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.
well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .i would have been happier if it all ended right there.read most of the posts,mmmmm is all i can say about it.as most of you know ive watched since jacks eye, but …..i grow tired of the show …me thinks they re dragging it out …..???
Can Walt travel to and from the island? Remember when Ben shot Locke and left him in the ditch in Season 3 and Walt comes up and say we have work to do..well, if the island only inhabits dead or ‘undead’ peoples’ bodies like Charlie or Ecko or Libby, then only two things are possible.
1. Walt is dead/undead
2. Walt can space/time travel
Since both of these dont seem very plausible, the theory that the island only inhabits dead peoples’ bodies is flawed to begin with. Maybe the island can create any apparition it wants to..of the dead and the living??
I think that the second person Sun blames for Jin’s apparent death is Jack because in the last scene of the finale Jack says “Sun blames me for…” so its implied that its for Jin’s death.
[quote comment="229391"]
1. Walt is dead/undead
2. Walt can space/time travel
[/quote]
3. He was a manifestation. Not sure if you need to be on the island for that.
[quote comment="229380"]Locke and Jack are cousins[/quote]
Please explain how you came to that conclusion. It’s a wild theory and I am just wondering why you think that.
[quote comment="229396"][quote comment="229380"]Locke and Jack are cousins[/quote]
Please explain how you came to that conclusion. It’s a wild theory and I am just wondering why you think that.[/quote]
///////////
so am i
Another idea I’m struggling with. Ben dons the Halliwax jacket, turns the donkey wheel and suddenly appears in Tunisia. Beats up the two horsemen and promptly goes to check into the hotel where he asks for clarification of the date. Something to the effect of, “October…2005?” So he has a general idea of where he will end up?
At that point he’s viewing Sayid mourning his wife’s death on tv, so I don’t think he had anything to do with it, but recognizes that he could potentially recruit Sayid based on Nadia’s death. He must have some fast acting intelligence that feed him info. So then he goes to reruit Sayid with the belief that the killer would also follow Sayid to the funeral service. Lots of fast action there.
I originally thought Ben got off the island and was doing things before appearing in the desert, but it looks like he turns the wheel and then gets right to work 10 months later.
Incidentally Hammer there is now about a .03 chance that Ben could tell Sayid to go after Penny, when Penny is the person who rescued them on her ship and he witnessed the Des/Penny reunion.
So why does Ben get so pleased with himself that he was able to recruit Sayid on the mission to exact revenge on Widmore’s daughter, assuming that was his plan from the onset of Keamy killing his adopted daughter?
[quote comment="229103"][quote comment="228772"][quote comment="227991"][/quote]
Ben tells Jack he has to lie because this is a place where miracles happen. Jack is in denial, but I think he somewhat does believe this. He knows that people will kill unconditionally regarding almost any matter concerning the island. He knows it will impossible to get the outside world to believe the truth. He knows that some of his people want to stay. He believes everyone else who wanted to leave the island is dead. I think the lying makes sense now.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^
But in telling their modified true story, why would they have to give any details about the island itself? “We were stuck on an island, not even sure where, we decided, hey we can live together on this island [(or die alone) just wanted to get a show title in] so we decided to set sail on this raft hoping we’d hit land, and we eventually did…it was a miracle, you’ll understand if we don’t want to go near an ocean again anytime soon, so please save the questions about the island.”
Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks, “Hey the damn thing disappeared, I have no clue where it is, none of us do. Push come to shove I’d even be willing to take you to where I last saw it.”
Naturally when the O6 are picked up, they’d go through some medical screenings to just get checked out I mean they’d been missing for 3 months. “Hmmm, Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh…it looks like..an appendectomy scar?” “Um, no, I uh cut myself and stitched myself up.”
Widmore seemed rather approachable when Sun walked up to him, if the island needs so much protection, why not start with the guy who seemed the most knowledgable about its whereabouts, and came the closest to getting on? Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out?[/quote]
________________________________
“We were stuck on an island, not even sure where… is very similar to what they told the press. Just had to say they started in the water because of the fake wreckage already found.
Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks… they would probably kill them.
Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh… A week on Penny’s boat with medical supplies can do wonders.
Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out? — The island won’t let him die yet.
[quote comment="229406"]Another idea I’m struggling with. Ben dons the Halliwax jacket, turns the donkey wheel and suddenly appears in Tunisia. Beats up the two horsemen and promptly goes to check into the hotel where he asks for clarification of the date. Something to the effect of, “October…2005?” So he has a general idea of where he will end up?
At that point he’s viewing Sayid mourning his wife’s death on tv, so I don’t think he had anything to do with it, but recognizes that he could potentially recruit Sayid based on Nadia’s death. He must have some fast acting intelligence that feed him info. So then he goes to reruit Sayid with the belief that the killer would also follow Sayid to the funeral service. Lots of fast action there.
I originally thought Ben got off the island and was doing things before appearing in the desert, but it looks like he turns the wheel and then gets right to work 10 months later.
Incidentally Hammer there is now about a .03 chance that Ben could tell Sayid to go after Penny, when Penny is the person who rescued them on her ship and he witnessed the Des/Penny reunion.
So why does Ben get so pleased with himself that he was able to recruit Sayid on the mission to exact revenge on Widmore’s daughter, assuming that was his plan from the onset of Keamy killing his adopted daughter?[/quote]
____________________________________
First, I think Ben and the island went to 2 different places in space and time. Good point about the timeline after Ben arrives in Tunisia, though. When and how did he get the photo of the guy in CA? He has to be getting help from Others who are spread out throughout the world.
[quote comment="229407"][quote comment="229103"][quote comment="228772"][quote comment="227991"][/quote]
_______________________________
“We were stuck on an island, not even sure where… is very similar to what they told the press. Just had to say they started in the water because of the fake wreckage already found.
Then if anyone from Widmore or whoever asks… they would probably kill them.
Dr. Shepherd, whats this blood, looks like this abrasion on your abdomen is rather fresh… A week on Penny’s boat with medical supplies can do wonders.
Why hasn’t Sayid or anyone on Ben’s side gone ahead and taken him out? — The island won’t let him die yet.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I buy pt 1, I can swallow pt 3. Regarding pt. 2, I was thinking Abbadon is connected to Widmore and he’s asking questions w/o killing. If he is not connected to Widmore is Widmore just going to not have folks try to question anyone, especially after Sun approaches him talking about “we have common interests.” Doesn’t Sun know who she’s effin with?
Pt 4 is going down like some dry chicken only because if the island is not letting him die seems like he’d have carte blanche to do many a thing knowing he can’t die. But I can swallow it based on show consistency.
Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.
[quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.[/quote]
_____________________________________________________
I think they wanted to protect Aaron from Widmore, or Ben and they knew the only way to do that is if one of them looked after him. if they said it was Claires then her mom would have probably been the legal gurdian of him. Plus yeah Kate probably got attached to him and found it hard to let go
\\I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.//
it doesn’t matter who was where. the fake plane ditched intact. the story was that eight got out thru one door before the plane went down intact. seating chart, tailies, nosies, fuselagies have no bearing on the FAKE story.
Wax Locke in coffin.
[quote comment="229406"]
So why does Ben get so pleased with himself that he was able to recruit Sayid on the mission to exact revenge on Widmore’s daughter, assuming that was his plan from the onset of Keamy killing his adopted daughter?[/quote]
That is an excellent point about Ben getting right to work. It was also pretty convenient for him. Right at the time of Nadia’s death. Now that’s a fickle bitch (Destiny?). I assumed he knew the details about Sayid and Nadia, but how could he?
Now I am wondering how Widmore knew that Alex was killed. He would have had to learn that from someone that was on the island, right. Someone that was rescued that knew of Alex’s death. Who knew of Alex’s death?
His revenge plan on Penny is an objective for him, but like Widmore, his ULTIMATE goal maybe to return to the island, UNLESS it is just a big ruse to get near Desmond.
[quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? [/quote]
I’m not sure if they knew that Claire’s mother was in a coma for years or not. She had a miraculous recovery. Even so, if they claim that Claire gave birth, they would have another Elian Gonzalez on their hands. I’m still puzzled why they lied about Aaron’s age, but that’s probably not important. Just like the producers said the other people that survived the wreckage but were not O6er’s was not important.
[quote comment="229389"]Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.[/quote]
I posted that in comment 419 and no one replied. What do you think?
[quote comment="229429"]I’m not sure if they knew that Claire’s mother was in a coma for years or not. She had a miraculous recovery. Even so, if they claim that Claire gave birth, they would have another Elian Gonzalez on their hands. I’m still puzzled why they lied about Aaron’s age, but that’s probably not important. Just like the producers said the other people that survived the wreckage but were not O6er’s was not important.[/quote]
They had to lie about Aaron’s age because Kate’s status as a fugitive would mean that she couldn’t have been AS pregnant as Claire was or SOMEONE would have noticed! Claire was eight months pregnant when she got on that flight (Oceanic shouldn’t have let her fly! LOL). If KATE had been eight months pregnant, she would have SHOWN. The authorities overseeing her transfer from Australia to the US would have KNOWN. She had to be early enough in the pregnancy that she could have been “hiding” it.
They couldn’t say that Kate was eight months pregnant, so “Kate’s” Aaron couldn’t have been born when the “real” Aaron was. The pop-ups put Aaron’s “real age,” as of the press-conference, at about eight weeks. This is only three weeks off what Kate was saying at the press conference (about five weeks), so the numbers are still a bit wacky (except that we may well have ruled out the accuracy of the pop-ups).
Hopefully, we’ll see some footage of the conversations / arguments that took place on Penny’s boat which were revolving around the development of the lie. I would like that. I’d like to see the O6, plus Desmond, taking their first REAL shower, eating their first non-DHARMA food, enjoying air-conditioning and NOT living in terror and mortal danger 24/7.
: ) P
[quote comment="228635"][quote comment="228610"][quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
Is she dead or alive[/quote]
Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.[/quote]
++++++++++++
You are prob. correct, can’t seem to find the transcript. I’ll have to listen again.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I listened again over the weekend. D&C didn’t specifically use the words “alive” or “not dead”, but from the way they describe her situation, it certainly sounds like she’s alive. They talk about “the real Harper”, use the word “corporeal” and mention that she’s with the rest of the Others whereve they may be. So my take is she is alive.
If you choose to listen again, it’s towards the end of the podcast, maybe around the 18 or 19 minute mark?
[quote comment="229423"][quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.[/quote]
_____________________________________________________
I think they wanted to protect Aaron from Widmore, or Ben and they knew the only way to do that is if one of them looked after him. if they said it was Claires then her mom would have probably been the legal gurdian of him. Plus yeah Kate probably got attached to him and found it hard to let go[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Those explanations seem reasonable. Another possibility is that they thought if they said the baby was Kate’s, it would make her a more sympathetic figure in the eyes of the authorities when it came time to apprehend and prosecute her. From “Eggtown”, it seemed like portions of their story were tailored to help Kate’s defense during her trial.
[quote comment="229280"][quote comment="229097"][quote comment="229071"]Any relevence in Boone, Libby, and Charlie being the other survivors of the flight that ultimately died? Why them?[/quote]
I questioned that, too. Particularly since we know that Libby was in the tail section and flight manifests would show that the rest were in a different part of the plane.
I suppose they wanted to choose someone who HAD died on the island. But to make the lie more realistic, they might have chosen Shannon since she was in the same section of the plane.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++
Charlie and Libby were near and dear to Hugo’s heart. Maybe during the lie discussion Hugo pushed for those two to pay homage. Still lost on Boone.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’d read on another site the theory that Jack had a direct connection to the deaths of the 3 characters mentioned. With both Boone and Libby, he provided medical attention in an effort to save their lives, but ultimately failed. With Charlie, Jack was opposed to the idea of Charlie swimming down to the Looking Glass station. So for each of those 3 characters, Jack probably feels some level of guilt over their deaths.
To re-enforce the lie. Boone was a swimmer, he might survive crashing in the water, so they better try to account for that. Charlie was famous — don’t want any crazed fans to be searching for him so let’s confirm his death. Libby? Maybe Penny knew of Libby. It’s obvious she was planted by someone — probably Widmore, so to confirm her death means someone will not be looking for her.
[quote comment="229410"][quote comment="229406"]
I originally thought Ben got off the island and was doing things before appearing in the desert, but it looks like he turns the wheel and then gets right to work 10 months later.
[/quote]
____________________________________
First, I think Ben and the island went to 2 different places in space and time. Good point about the timeline after Ben arrives in Tunisia, though. When and how did he get the photo of the guy in CA? He has to be getting help from Others who are spread out throughout the world.[/quote]
************************************
Agreed that Ben and the island went to separate locations. We don’t really know though how long between his arrival in Tunesia, and his arrival in Iraq (for the funeral). Could have been awhile maybe? Could he have perhaps gone to America between Tunesia and Iraq? Am I just assuming he went directly to Iraq?
Andrew, L4, Toe, and Sec, thanks for the responses in helping me get some further understanding. I’m satisfied with the soap opera surrounding Kate and Aaron, so I’ll leave it at that.
L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.
[quote comment="229573"][quote comment="228635"][quote comment="228610"][quote comment="228604"][quote comment="228603"]Thats right what happened to Harper?
Is she dead or alive[/quote]
Don’t know, we only know that it was her and not an manifestation.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think in the April 25 podcast they specifically said she’s alive.[/quote]
++++++++++++
You are prob. correct, can’t seem to find the transcript. I’ll have to listen again.[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I listened again over the weekend. D&C didn’t specifically use the words “alive” or “not dead”, but from the way they describe her situation, it certainly sounds like she’s alive. They talk about “the real Harper”, use the word “corporeal” and mention that she’s with the rest of the Others whereve they may be. So my take is she is alive.
If you choose to listen again, it’s towards the end of the podcast, maybe around the 18 or 19 minute mark?[/quote]
++++++++++++++++
Thanks Toeknee. Since I am allowing myself to believe that some if not all of the others are whisperers, I’m leaving the door open that some of them are dead (Alpert,Harper?).
[quote comment="229592"]To re-enforce the lie. Boone was a swimmer, he might survive crashing in the water, so they better try to account for that. Charlie was famous — don’t want any crazed fans to be searching for him so let’s confirm his death. Libby? Maybe Penny knew of Libby. It’s obvious she was planted by someone — probably Widmore, so to confirm her death means someone will not be looking for her.[/quote]
I like the reasoning behind most of the theories about why they chose those 3 people. However, I remember them saying that the characters were not important. I like to speculate also.
Jack said Boone sufferred massive internal injuries and died shortly after. I first thought that they said Boone because he was a lifeguard and could have aided in the rescue, but then I watched the scene again. They could have said Libby because she had some medical knowledge. Who knows why they said Charlie? Maybe it was because of the AWFUL music he played.
[quote comment="229603"]
L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.[/quote]
Point taken. We just never saw him “recruit” like we have Alpert. How do they get on/off the island now that the sub is gone? Ah, yes, Desmond’s boat. Maybe that is why Ben said that to Sayid ( He used Desmond’s boat ), to explain to us, the viewer, that it wasn’t what they used but, as we know, the bearing.
[quote comment="229573"]I listened again over the weekend. D&C didn’t specifically use the words “alive” or “not dead”, but from the way they describe her situation, it certainly sounds like she’s alive. They talk about “the real Harper”, use the word “corporeal” and mention that she’s with the rest of the Others whereve they may be. So my take is she is alive.[/quote]
Yeah, I have been thinking about that. A while ago, I ended up listening to the podcasts from the beginning (in reverse chronological order) and have determined that in more recent podcasts (specifically those still available on ABC’s website), they are MUCH more careful about they way they parse their words.
Their avoidance of the words “alive” and “dead” MEAN something I think. Perhaps their joking about “the zombie season” is meaningful. We know, for example, that they said there was no time traveling – clearly there IS some kind of travel across the dimension of time, but perhaps they have a more closely defined definition of the term. Perhaps their definitions of alive, dead, and undead are different than the “average” definition.
Maybe Alpert’s group and some of the Others ARE “undead,” which based on their words would mean that Harper is undead, which would tie in to Hammer’s whisper theory. It would also explain Captain Eyeliner’s apparent ability to avoid wrinkles.
I caught a few minutes of some kind of zombie movie this weekend (I’m not one to enjoy those normally) and I saw some parallels to LOST (which is kind of scary all by itself).
Sometimes… I wish I could be like my friends who watch this show, say, “Wow, that was awesome,” and then forget about it until the next episode is on.
: ) P
[quote comment="229603"]Andrew, L4, Toe, and Sec, thanks for the responses in helping me get some further understanding. I’m satisfied with the soap opera surrounding Kate and Aaron, so I’ll leave it at that.
L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.[/quote]
——————————
Also Tom visiting Michael in New York – he’s got a boyfriend! So it seemed pretty obvious that he’s visited NY before, probably often. The Others and Ben definitely went on and off at will, or at least at Jacob’s discretion.
[quote comment="229432"]
They couldn’t say that Kate was eight months pregnant, so “Kate’s” Aaron couldn’t have been born when the “real” Aaron was. The pop-ups put Aaron’s “real age,” as of the press-conference, at about eight weeks. This is only three weeks off what Kate was saying at the press conference (about five weeks), so the numbers are still a bit wacky (except that we may well have ruled out the accuracy of the pop-up.[/quote]
I have no idea so I will defer to the experts on the subject. If 3 weeks makes that much of a difference, then that really does make sense. Although I know in the movie KNOCKED UP, I think they said the girl’s sister didn’t show until 6 or 7 months. That’s the extent of my knowledge.
Maybe Libby gets brought up on Pen’s boat and Desmond realizes she was the one who gave him his boat (the Elizabeth). Not to mention, Penny probably shared all of her knowledge regarding her father.
I think S5 will reveal most of everything that is going on in order to set up conclusions for S6. Mittleworks Labs (or whatever it’s called) is probably the Others inland headquarters and I’m thinking we will see this next season. This is where all the files are compliled and kept of the losties. Ben would know who Nadia was from Sayid’s file.
I think S5 will start with Daniel’s raft finding Jin in the water. They go back to shore and the new lost group — with Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Dan, Char, Miles, and any other red shirts is formed. Then the very bad things start to happen.
[quote comment="229663"]
I think S5 will start with Daniel’s raft finding Jin in the water. They go back to shore and the new lost group — with Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Dan, Char, Miles, and any other red shirts is formed. Then the very bad things start to happen.[/quote]
*************************
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Was anyone on the raft with Daniel BESIDES red shirts?
I believe that Alpert might originally have come from the Black Pearl since he never ages and that the ship is the oldest form of transportation which made it to the Island. Wouldn’t it be great if they had a flashback of Richard being a pirate?
[quote comment="229661"][quote comment="229603"]Andrew, L4, Toe, and Sec, thanks for the responses in helping me get some further understanding. I’m satisfied with the soap opera surrounding Kate and Aaron, so I’ll leave it at that.
L4 your comment #420, I was thinking that the implication that Ben goes off the island is quite strong, considering his alias is a preferred customer at the hotel, and has all those different passports and currencies in his secret room. Plus they had the photo of him in front of that computer, and that pic looked fairly recent.[/quote]
——————————
Also Tom visiting Michael in New York – he’s got a boyfriend! So it seemed pretty obvious that he’s visited NY before, probably often. [/quote]
Yes it was obvious Tom visited NY before but even he said it wasn’t often.
TOM: Don’t make it to the mainland too often–
[quote comment="229682"]I believe that Alpert might originally have come from the Black Pearl since he never ages and that the ship is the oldest form of transportation which made it to the Island. Wouldn’t it be great if they had a flashback of Richard being a pirate?[/quote]
You must have been watching USA this weekend. Jack Sparrow was after the Black Pearl. I have heard that theory before, Alpert being a pirate, that would be interesting.
[quote comment="229685"][quote comment="229682"]I believe that Alpert might originally have come from the Black Pearl since he never ages and that the ship is the oldest form of transportation which made it to the Island. Wouldn’t it be great if they had a flashback of Richard being a pirate?[/quote]
You must have been watching USA this weekend. Jack Sparrow was after the Black Pearl. I have heard that theory before, Alpert being a pirate, that would be interesting.[/quote]
Whoops sorry, meant the Black Rock, yeah I actually hate those Jack Sparrow movies!
[quote comment="229678"][quote comment="229663"]
I think S5 will start with Daniel’s raft finding Jin in the water. They go back to shore and the new lost group — with Sawyer, Juliet, Rose, Bernard, Dan, Char, Miles, and any other red shirts is formed. Then the very bad things start to happen.[/quote]
*************************
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Was anyone on the raft with Daniel BESIDES red shirts?[/quote]
————–
I dont think so. I was thinking that season 5 has to FB to more of the island’s past. The DI, Rousseau’s team ( if there was one ), Richard the Pirate, the four toed-statue, etc. At least I hope they do.
[quote comment="229431"][quote comment="229389"]Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.[/quote]
I posted that in comment 419 and no one replied.
What do you think?[/quote]
————-
Now I am thinking he might have been able to walk. When the O6 mentioned that he visited them off the island, none of them said anything about the wheelchair. Did any of them know he was paralyzed pre-island? I realize that would have given away who was in the coffin but at least Hurley would have said “Dude, did you notice anything different about him. How did that happen?”
[quote comment="229390"]well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .i would have been happier if it all ended right there.read most of the posts,mmmmm is all i can say about it.as most of you know ive watched since jacks eye, but …..i grow tired of the show …me thinks they re dragging it out …..???[/quote]
—————
Bah Humbug?
Oh, come on…
for me it’s just getting started;
They have the game set up…
now to answer all the questions and see if the Losties off island now can get back …and why do they HAVE to get back?
Sun is going to be a big contender and we still have to flesh out Miles and Charlotte.
Sawyer will hook up again with….?
Alpert needs some splainin’ and the weird Others with him. More stations to discover?
And then there’s Ben…by the way he didn’t just “beat up” those guys in the desert (as one wrote), he gave them the Big Sleep.
But why was he photographing Sayid? Ben sure has taken his share of blows in the show…tough little weasel is he.
So; Just getting started, me thinks.
I don’t know who keeps claiming that pregnant gals can’t fly. Below is an industry standard. SACs are airline staff, a.k.a. Special Assistance Coordinators, who work with customers who have identified themselves as having disabilities or unique needs.
=====================
Pregnant Women – Domestic Travel
-> A medical certificate is required if travel is within four weeks of the delivery date in an uncomplicated pregnancy.
-> Travel is not permitted when requested within seven days before or after the delivery date without a medical certificate. SAC clearance is required.
Pregnant Women – International Travel
-> Travel is not advised within 30 days of the due date, unless the passenger is examined by an obstetrician within 48 hours of the outbound departure and certified in writing as medically stable for flight.
-> Travel within ten days of the due date on international travel must have SAC clearance.
[quote comment="229662"][quote comment="229432"]
[/quote]
They couldn’t say that Kate was eight months pregnant, so “Kate’s” Aaron couldn’t have been born when the “real” Aaron was. The pop-ups put Aaron’s “real age,” as of the press-conference, at about eight weeks. This is only three weeks off what Kate was saying at the press conference (about five weeks), so the numbers are still a bit wacky (except that we may well have ruled out the accuracy of the pop-up.[/quote]
I have no idea so I will defer to the experts on the subject. If 3 weeks makes that much of a difference, then that really does make sense. Although I know in the movie KNOCKED UP, I think they said the girl’s sister didn’t show until 6 or 7 months. That’s the extent of my knowledge.
***************************
It really just depends on how the mother is carrying the baby…with my son my stomach shot out real fast and everyone knew I was pregnant…now with my daughter I’m 7 months along and people still have to ask (and I’m not a heavy person which can make it even harder to tell). The size of the baby isn’t a great predictor of age either…my son was huge and everyone thought he looked older than he really was, but I have a friend who has an 8 month old who still wears size 3 month clothes. They should have been able to tell a difference developmentally between 5 week old and 8 week old Aaron though…but that could still be subjective because all babies develop at different rates…what I don’t get is that if CS’s funeral was supposed to be 10 months after the crash, why does baby Aaron look the same as he did at the press conference? Wouldn’t he be at least 6 or 7 months old by that time?
so, i thought the finale was pretty damn cool…a few things (and yes i have read MOST of the previous posts;). Disclaimer: The following are just my opinions:
1-The gunfight between the others and Keamy and the mercs was cheesy and it kinda bummed me out…it was like they turned into a Charles Bronson/Chuck Norris movie for a second…but that is really my ONLY complaint…
i hope they bring him back in some way, either as a ghost, vision, flashback, whatever…
2-all the talk about Charlotte being Annie and Sun’s daughter being Michaels is confusing to me…while those things could turn out to be true (i guess;), i think people who think that are really reaching…there isn’t any concrete reasoning or evidence behind either and lots of things that go against them…in my opinion those theories are incorrect…
3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy….some of you talk about him like he and the others are heroes…these are people who kidnapped children…locked people in cages…Ben shot Locke point blank, tried to kill him in cold blood…and it shouldn’t have taken him killing Keamy and then saying i don’t care about all the people who blew up on the boat to remind everyone he is not a “good-guy”…that being said, he is one of the best bad guys and ‘favorite-people-to-hate’ in the history of TV…
4-the island disappearing was COOL!
5-Locke being in the coffin was COOL and i am dying to know how that comes to be…
6-i think Jinn is still alive…although i have no idea what will happen to him now…seems like he’sd be lost at sea with no island to swim to…
7-Sun is a bad-a** and i can’t wait to find out more about Claire
8-as a HUGE fan of the character, i thought it was AWESOME when Hurley moves his chess piece and says ‘Checkmate, Mr Eko…’
anyways, can’t wait to watch the whole season again on DVD…Lost Rules!
In Season 1, Claire is traveling to the U.S, LA specifically, to meet with the adoptive parents for her baby. If they would have told everyone that it was her baby, then the baby surely would have gone to the adoptive couple.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if those parents came out and questioned whether Aaron was really “their” baby?
[quote comment="229724"]
3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
[/quote]
That depends on what is GOOD.
I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?
Hey all,
What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.
Any thoughts?
Lisa
[quote comment="229735"]Hey all,
What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.
[/quote]
She wasn’t telling the truth. She had an affair with the man she was originally set up on a date with before meeting Jin.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jae_Lee
[quote comment="229727"]
Wouldn’t it be interesting if those (adoptive) parents came out and questioned whether Aaron was really “their” baby?
[/quote]
better yet… what if Jack & Kate were the adoptive parents?… then the australian psychic realized that ‘was very bad’.
[quote comment="229738"][quote comment="229735"]Hey all,
What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.
[/quote]
She wasn’t telling the truth. She had an affair with the man she was originally set up on a date with before meeting Jin.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jae_Lee/quote
Thanks:) So do you think it could be his baby? Or do you think it is Jins? I am wondering if it matters to the story! I just thought it was a great catch to think it may be Michaels:)
[quote comment="229738"][quote comment="229735"]Hey all,
What an episode. I loved it. When watching it I had not caught the connection that Michael could be the father when I read all of the posts I thought it could be possible. I am convienced that it is not Jins however. My husband is just now going back and watching all of the episodes for the first time and I was watching with him and caught in S2 The whole truth… When Sun tells Jin she is pregnant and says that he is the only man she has been with her face looks like she is not telling the truth. We know that she can with hold the truth very well. I know that people have brought up that the Island could have healed him to allow him to not be sterile.
[/quote]
She wasn’t telling the truth. She had an affair with the man she was originally set up on a date with before meeting Jin.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jae_Lee/quote
Thanks:). I just tried to write back to you , but I did not see my post. So here goes again. Do you think Jin is the father? I thought people brought up a good point about Michael. What are your thoughts?
Sorry that posted twice. I should be a little more patient..
[quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
[/quote]
That depends on what is GOOD.
I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]
*******************************************
i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…
[quote comment="228618"][quote comment="228616"]What did Sawyer whisper to Kate before jumping?[/quote]
I think he told her about his daughter and asked her to keep an eye on her for him.[/quote]
#####################
This is what Doc Artz says the decoded whisper is
“I have a daughter in Albuquerque. I need you to find her. Tell her I’m sorry.”
The only thing was that they couldn’t quite hear it well enough to say if it was Albuquerque or Alabama but the consensus was Albuquerque
[quote comment="229694"][quote comment="229431"][quote comment="229389"]Hey I don’t know if this has been brought up. But do u guys think Locke can walk when he leaves the island.[/quote]
I posted that in comment 419 and no one replied.
What do you think?[/quote]
————-
Now I am thinking he might have been able to walk. When the O6 mentioned that he visited them off the island, none of them said anything about the wheelchair. Did any of them know he was paralyzed pre-island? I realize that would have given away who was in the coffin but at least Hurley would have said “Dude, did you notice anything different about him. How did that happen?”[/quote]
——————————————
I don’t Know the Island seems to let him walk remember in season 2 (i think) when John suddenly became paralyzed and then Boone died. If he was banished from the island or had to leave it then he probably can’t walk.
If like Ben or Tom or Richard Alpert he was of the island on some kind of business like trying to convince the others to come back, then he probably would be able to walk. But if thats the case then why did he die. People only seem to die when the island lets them or wants them to.
[quote comment="229660"][quote comment="229573"][/quote]
We know, for example, that they (D&C) said there was no time traveling – clearly there IS some kind of travel across the dimension of time, but perhaps they have a more closely defined definition of the term.
: ) P[/quote]
\
Ah hah … did they really say there was no time travelling?
Because even Ben said something along the lines of Time travelling bunny, right?
Mis use and misunderstanding of island properties sounds more like it to me. So I’d say its safe to say that even Ben doesn’t really know too much about the power of that wheel…
[quote comment="229769"]Ah hah … did they really say there was no time travelling?
Because even Ben said something along the lines of Time travelling bunny, right?
Mis use and misunderstanding of island properties sounds more like it to me. So I’d say its safe to say that even Ben doesn’t really know too much about the power of that wheel…[/quote]
They did say there was no time travel – but they were joking like it was a RIDICULOUS idea. Very MUCH like they were joking about the zombie season. They are very tricky fellows, so I now see that it likely that they are interpreting things very differently so that they CAN say those things to be misleading without being “dishonest” as it were.
: ) P
Regarding time travel:
From podcast 11/08/2005, which was around just before Episode 206 (Abandoned) aired:
Carlton Cuse: You’re not going to tell them about the time travel, are you?
Damon Lindelof: No, no, I’m not going to, in fact, I’m going to go back in time and prevent you from having said that. [Laughs]
: ) P
How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?
I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.
Which means Jack and the others have to go back to face whatever lie it is they are telling themselves… and die. Which would leave Aaron nowhere to go.
Oh – and Whitmore may not be a bad guy.
Not a perfect theory, though. For instance, it doesn’t explain why so many of the passengers of the flight seem to have been chosen or destined to get on that plane.
It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.
[quote comment="229778"]How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?
I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.
Which means Jack and the others have to go back to face whatever lie it is they are telling themselves… and die. Which would leave Aaron nowhere to go.
Oh – and Whitmore may not be a bad guy.
Not a perfect theory, though. For instance, it doesn’t explain why so many of the passengers of the flight seem to have been chosen or destined to get on that plane.[/quote]
******************************************
i agree…who says Widmore is the ‘bad guy’? the only things that support that theory are the fact that he didn’t like Desmond and the videotape of him beating one of ‘Ben’s people’…but he most certainly hasn’t done anything as bad or worse (that we know of) than some of the crap Ben and the Others have pulled…i personally think they are ALL evil but that’s not the point…the show loves to change things up to make you start rooting for people you used to hate…making heroes out of murderers, thieves & liars…gotta love it!
[quote comment="229778"]How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?[/quote]
Well, because it IS a fake planted by Widmore? LOL.
No, I know I thought twice about it, and your idea did cross my mind. But we saw the photos of the empty graves, the bill of sale for the fake plane and Frank KNOWS the pilot wasn’t his friend, Seth.
[quote comment="229778"]I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.[/quote]
But if your theory is right, then it means that Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Boone, Shannon must have redeemed themselves. You can say Eko and possibly Boone did redeem themselves, but I am not sure you can say Shannon and Libby did. And what about Sawyer? The guy sacrificed himself for his friends (and has done a few other heroic things recently). If that doesn’t qualify as redeeming oneself, what the heck will?
JMO,
: ) P
Also not mentioned so far was Kate’s reaction when she saw Sawyer come out of the jungle. Her eyes lit up (This makes it look like Sawyer is her true love, not Jack; and that hurts because I am a big fan of Jack and all he has done to help keep the Losties safe.)like firecrackers and then she came back to reality when Jack emerged from the jungle bleeding. She was definitely concerned over Jack’s health but her heart belongs to Sawyer.
The funny line of the movie; Sawyer to Lapidus-Hey Kenny Rogers, what you trying to do there-pick a lock? That was a great nickname and line. Although I would have thought Sawyer would have been able to pick that lock instead of having to cut it with a hacksaw.
[quote comment="229752"][quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
[/quote]
That depends on what is GOOD.
I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]
*******************************************
i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…[/quote]
_________________________
Ben isn’t selfless … he’s a spoiled brat! He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. He turns the wheel because he’s taking his ball and going home. He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”
Bottom line: Ben = bad guy
[quote comment="229785"]Also not mentioned so far was Kate’s reaction when she saw Sawyer come out of the jungle. Her eyes lit up (This makes it look like Sawyer is her true love, not Jack; and that hurts because I am a big fan of Jack and all he has done to help keep the Losties safe.)like firecrackers and then she came back to reality when Jack emerged from the jungle bleeding. She was definitely concerned over Jack’s health but her heart belongs to Sawyer.
The funny line of the movie; Sawyer to Lapidus-Hey Kenny Rogers, what you trying to do there-pick a lock? That was a great nickname and line. Although I would have thought Sawyer would have been able to pick that lock instead of having to cut it with a hacksaw.[/quote]
************************************
i know i’ll probably get crucified for this but i think Jack is kinda lame…he’s arrogant, stuborn, blind to what is really going on on the island and acts like a petulant child….he defintely has done some super cool stuff in the past but pretty much every single decision he’s made since Naomi fell from the sky has been the wrong one…think about it…and now he’s some pathetic pill-popping drunk crying all the time about how they need to go back…he is a flawed-hero at best…just an opinion, feel free to curse my name, haha
[quote comment="229786"][quote comment="229752"][quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
[/quote]
That depends on what is GOOD.
I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]
*******************************************
i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…[/quote]
_________________________
Ben isn’t selfless … he’s a spoiled brat! He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. He turns the wheel because he’s taking his ball and going home. He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”
Bottom line: Ben = bad guy[/quote]
******************
amen…that’s what i was saying…;)
ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.
[quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]
***************************
totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
-Jack
-Locke
-Juliet
-Michael
-Charlie
-Claire
haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)
[quote comment="229795"][quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]
***************************
totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
-Jack
-Locke
-Juliet
-Michael
-Charlie
-Claire
haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)[/quote
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I know every season i like and dislike different people
Originally i liked Jack and hated locke now its opposite
Plus im starting to like Ben even though he is bad, he’s bad in a good way.
I used to Hate Kate even though she was always sexy
and I never liked Sawyer untill this season.
I like Juliet always thought she was a good guy
[quote comment="229797"][quote comment="229795"][quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]
***************************
totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
-Jack
-Locke
-Juliet
-Michael
-Charlie
-Claire
haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)[/quote
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I know every season i like and dislike different people
Originally i liked Jack and hated locke now its opposite
Plus im starting to like Ben even though he is bad, he's bad in a good way.
I used to Hate Kate even though she was always sexy
and I never liked Sawyer untill this season.
I like Juliet always thought she was a good guy[/quote]
******************************************
-HATE Ben, haha…
-i go back and forth with Locke and Jack…don’t like either right now…
-i used to hate Juliet, now i like her…
-i’ve always kinda liked Kate although she’s not as tough and cool now as she used to be…
-i’ve always liked Sayid, Hurley and Sawyer…i know Sawyer was a major jack-a** for a long time but i’ve always thought he was SUPER entertaining and when the rubber met the road he usually did the right thing…
bummer that the season is over…time for the ‘longwait’…
[quote comment="229790"][quote comment="229786"][quote comment="229752"][quote comment="229732"][quote comment="229724"]
3-i’m glad the finale finally reminded everyone that Ben is a BAD guy…
[/quote]
That depends on what is GOOD.
I would say him turning the wheel, was a very selfless act. He sacrificed “his” island to protect it. Letting the freighter blow was definitely not a good thing but, his goal was to kill the man who killed his daughter. Is that a bad thing?[/quote]
*******************************************
i don’t think killing the man who murdered his daughter (aka-a girl he kidnapped from her mother) is necessarily a bad thing (even tho he was at least partially respsonsible for that also)…unless it involves knowing that doing so will cause the death of other ‘innocent people’…and yes, he is ‘selfless’ when it comes to the island…but we don’t know that that is a good thing…he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) when neither had directly threatened him…not sure what your definition of ‘bad’ is…;) it doesn’t matter, i just think it’s kinda funny how general opinion of the others seesm to have changed from season one to now…[/quote]
_________________________
Ben isn’t selfless … he’s a spoiled brat! He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. He turns the wheel because he’s taking his ball and going home. He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”
Bottom line: Ben = bad guy[/quote]
******************
amen…that’s what i was saying…;)[/quote]
*****************************
While I agree, it has to be said: Ben sure seems to have a lot of power and authority OFF the island as well!
[quote comment="229805"][quote comment="229797"][quote comment="229795"][quote comment="229792"]ESB- No cursing coming from me. That’s one of the things that makes Lost so great. Everybody has a differing opinion on which characters are strong, which are weak, which ones are right and which ones are wrong; there are so many shades of grey in the actions they take that you can’t tell if a character is good or bad, or somewhere inbetween.[/quote]
***************************
totally agree…it’s what makes the show great…the characters you like, you love to like and the characters you don’t like, you love to hate…and alot of the time it changes…during this show, i have both liked AND dis-liked all of the following characters:
-Jack
-Locke
-Juliet
-Michael
-Charlie
-Claire
haha, who knows who i’ll like and who i won’t next season…;)[/quote
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I know every season i like and dislike different people
Originally i liked Jack and hated locke now its opposite
Plus im starting to like Ben even though he is bad, he's bad in a good way.
I used to Hate Kate even though she was always sexy
and I never liked Sawyer untill this season.
I like Juliet always thought she was a good guy[/quote]
******************************************
-HATE Ben, haha…
-i go back and forth with Locke and Jack…don’t like either right now…
-i used to hate Juliet, now i like her…
-i’ve always kinda liked Kate although she’s not as tough and cool now as she used to be…
-i’ve always liked Sayid, Hurley and Sawyer…i know Sawyer was a major jack-a** for a long time but i’ve always thought he was SUPER entertaining and when the rubber met the road he usually did the right thing…
bummer that the season is over…time for the ‘longwait’…[/quote]
************************
Ha ha! Here’s my two cents:
RESPECT, maybe even admire, Ben. Yes, he’s usually pretty bad, but you have to admit that he “always has a plan”.
Used to hate Sawyer, but there is something honorable in him afterall.
Frustrated with Kate. Needs to decide what (who?) she wants.
Frustrated with Jack. Needs to get a grip on what he can and can’t do. Who really EXPECTED Jack to get them off the island?
Frustrated with Locke. Needs to stop trying to be what he isn’t, and start accepting what he is.
Like Juliet, Hurley, and Sayid. What you see is what you get. Same with Rose and Bernard.
Used to hate (OK, strongly dislike) Jin. Now, I see him as one of the more noble characters.
Can’t stand Michael and am glad he blew up. Bye bye! Jury is still out on Walt.
Next season, everything will no doubt change again!
[quote comment="229752"]he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) [/quote]
So by that logic Locke is also bad. He killed Naomi.
[quote comment="229786"]
Ben isn’t selfless [/quote]
Please reread my text and then yours. I never said Ben was selfless. You state
[quote comment="229786"] He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. [/quote]
And your exactly right. He does not want to leave the island. But in a selfless ACT he does.
I was just trying to say, originally, we really don’t know yet who is good or bad. Someone suggested Widmore may be good, but his goal was to kill everyone on the island.
BEN: He changed the rules.
I think the “torch the island” line was also evidence against Widmore being good. Faraday sure was worried when he heard about the secondary protocol.
Point being the BAD guys always seem to change on the show and with 34 more episodes left, they will change again.
[quote comment="229786"] He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”
[/quote]
I disagree on that. From what we have seen, he has over-protected 2 things, the island and his daughter. So it’s not always “what Ben wants.”
He didn’t care about the people on the boat because he wanted to kill the man that murdered his daughter. That was step 1 on his revenge warpath.
While I agree, he stole Alex from an “insane woman”, ( can’t wait for that FB ) he still raised her as his own. Just as Kate is now raising Aaron as hers. Is Ben gonna steal him too?
[quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.[/quote]
——
I’d dispute that;
Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
I’m sure Jin made it off and we will see that he makes it back to the island. (my theory)
By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
Now Keamy; 200% bad. Hope they come up with more villains next season. But I think we will see one of the Losties is really a mole! Desmond I think.
[quote comment="229783"]
Well, because it IS a fake planted by Widmore? LOL.
No, I know I thought twice about it, and your idea did cross my mind. But we saw the photos of the empty graves, the bill of sale for the fake plane and Frank KNOWS the pilot wasn’t his friend, Seth. [/quote]
After everything we have seen since MKJ, I have to agree with you. Especially last week, when Sun introduces herslf to Widmore, and he acknowledges Paik Industries. He may not have known that control of Paik Industries had changed hands because he hasn’t needed to plant fake planes or dig up graves in awhile.
I like the little island too. I hope you don’t mind me appearing there when this island gets too far gone. What the hell happened to DocH? Did Ben need him also to get back to the island?
[quote comment="229821"][quote comment="229786"] He didn’t care about the people on the boat because nothing matters to him except “what Ben wants”
[/quote]
I disagree on that. From what we have seen, he has over-protected 2 things, the island and his daughter. So it’s not always “what Ben wants.”
He didn’t care about the people on the boat because he wanted to kill the man that murdered his daughter. That was step 1 on his revenge warpath.
While I agree, he stole Alex from an “insane woman”, ( can’t wait for that FB ) he still raised her as his own. Just as Kate is now raising Aaron as hers. Is Ben gonna steal him too?[/quote]
_________________________
He protected the island to keep his power, just like his daughter … remember what he did to her boyfriend? Ben is an insane control freak … in my humble opinion
[quote comment="229822"].
Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
Now Keamy; 200% bad. Hope they come up with more villains next season. But I think we will see one of the Losties is really a mole! Desmond I think.[/quote]
One of them has to be a mole. How else would Widmore know about the death of Alex? Maybe Desmond or Lapidus, but neither was there when Alex died. I think Jin is still alive also or at least Ben told Sun he was via Locke. Her visit to Widmore would explain her trying to find the island to search for Jin.
Anyone notice the name of Penny’s boat? SEARCHER
I think it would be easier to try to figure out who’s good, most everyone on the island is bad, except Hurley, and maybe Rose, but she’s married to a dentist, and dentists are bad!
[quote comment="229826"] Ben is an insane control freak … in my humble opinion
[/quote]
I completely agree with you. IMO, he is also the best at being in control for what suits him. The island and his daughter. He always has a plan.
[quote comment="229826"]
He protected the island to keep his power, just like his daughter … remember what he did to her boyfriend? [/quote]
OVER-protective, YES. Again, I agree with you, I was just debating a comment earlier that I din’t agree with, YET.
[quote comment="229821"]I disagree on that. From what we have seen, he has over-protected 2 things, the island and his daughter. So it’s not always “what Ben wants.”
He didn’t care about the people on the boat because he wanted to kill the man that murdered his daughter. That was step 1 on his revenge warpath.
While I agree, he stole Alex from an “insane woman”, ( can’t wait for that FB ) he still raised her as his own. Just as Kate is now raising Aaron as hers. Is Ben gonna steal him too?[/quote]
___________________
Didn’t he try to do that already? (steal Aaron)
So what about Sun, good or bad? She can go either way in my book… P.S., I’ve always hated her character until the finale
[quote comment="229823"]I like the little island too. I hope you don’t mind me appearing there when this island gets too far gone. What the hell happened to DocH? Did Ben need him also to get back to the island?[/quote]
You’re welcome anytime, L4E.
: ) P
[quote comment="229830"]
Thanks:). I just tried to write back to you , but I did not see my post. So here goes again. Do you think Jin is the father? I thought people brought up a good point about Michael. What are your thoughts?[/quote]
I think Jin is the father, but honestly, it might not effect my OVERALL experience of the show. But if it is Michael, would he be like CS? I mean having 2 children with 2 different women from 2 different cultures. Maybe also even like Widmore, IN THAT SENSE( Penny and Libby )? And if Jin was the father, it would be a MIRACLE.
Sometimes the post doesn’t appear to go through right away. It used to happen to me all the time. My browser only updates every 5 minutes.
[quote comment="229832"]
Didn’t he try to do that already? (steal Aaron)[/quote]
I can’t remember, of hand, if Ben has tried to kidnap Aaron or not. I remember Rousseaou trying to in Season 1. Ethan kidnapped Claire but not under Ben’s orders.
At least that is what Juliet made us believe.
JULIET: He kidnapped her, on his own. That was never the plan.
Was their another time I can’t think of? Unless you are thinking he took her from Claire and left him to Sawyer.
[quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
——
By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^
Overreacting? I admit I haven’t rewatched the episode yet, but I thought Sun was screaming and carrying on because she WANTED to go back for Jin, and then got upset that they didn’t go back to look for him.
Widmore may not have denied responsibility for Alex’s death, but he certainly didn’t claim it either.
IMHO, Ben is worse than Widmore, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my opinion changed.
[quote comment="229420"]Another puzzler. They are on Penny’s ship for a week getting their story together, nursing wounds etc. Why do they agree to say Kate is the biological mother? Why can’t they say Claire died, after or during childbirth? Seems like that would have been believable. Apparently Kate seemed to bond with Aaron in that week’s time on the Penny’s ship to the point where she needed ownership of Aaron.[/quote]
They said Boone, Libby and Charlie were the ones who died because they know they are dead. They think (or know) that Claire is still alive back on the island. If she were ever to show up it would prove their whole story a lie if they said she died after the crash.
[quote comment="228572"]Does anyone know how Clarie dies
Why would her mother fly all the way to LA from Aus. just for a servcie did jake tell kate about Clare being his sister
What took so long for kate to find saywers daughter[/quote]
Kate was in the room when Claire’s mother told Jack that Claire was his sister.
[quote comment="228403"]But if Ben is not in the island’s good graces, how does that tie in to Ben asking Sayid “Do you want me to protect your friends or not?” in the Economist? That implied that Ben still has a connection to the island, knows where it is, and has control over the fate of those on the island.
Remember, Ben always has a plan![/quote]
++++++++++++++
Although I beleive Ben still has a connection with the island he could have been refering to the )6 when talking to Sayid.
[quote comment="228056"]Maybe this has been discussed before, but someone please help me understand here…
I believed the public thought that all passengers of the Oceanic 815 were found dead because Widmore had put the fake plane with dead bodies in the bottom of the ocean. It was broadcasted in news too. Then Oceanic 6 suddenly appeared as “survivors”… how could the public not question about the contradiction that there wasn’t supposed to be any survivors in the first place???[/quote]
We are all sheep and we beleive what the media tells us to. Some may question things but the rest of the world just wants to think there are answers. Those people don’t post on Lost blogs.
[quote comment="229859"]We are all sheep and we beleive what the media tells us to. Some may question things but the rest of the world just wants to think there are answers. Those people don’t post on Lost blogs.[/quote]
LOL. Well said, Circus Mom. In the past, Americans have denounced propaganda in other countries, crying out so that citizens of communist countries would hear the truth. Today, we accept what we hear and read and see as the truth, despite the fact that our “news” is barely more than propaganda itself. All it takes is twenty minutes of watching BBC World News to realize that.
What I don’t get is that the general public even *buys* our “news” when Anna-Nicole Smith, Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears and are top, if not leading, stories on so-called MAINSTREAM news.
I see the breakdown of the line between information and entertainment beginning with the OJ trial.
So yeah, the people “out there” blindly accept the story when six survivors appear and say they came from a plane at the bottom of the ocean. We LOST bloggers, though? We question EVERYTHING! LOL
: ) P
[quote comment="229817"][quote comment="229752"]he has also tried to kill at lest two people directly (Charlotte & Locke) [/quote]
So by that logic Locke is also bad. He killed Naomi.
[quote comment="229786"]
Ben isn’t selfless [/quote]
Please reread my text and then yours. I never said Ben was selfless. You state
[quote comment="229786"] He wants to stay on the island because on the island he has power and authority! Now he thinks the island doesn’t want him and he acts like a kid who doesn’t get his way. [/quote]
And your exactly right. He does not want to leave the island. But in a selfless ACT he does.
I was just trying to say, originally, we really don’t know yet who is good or bad. Someone suggested Widmore may be good, but his goal was to kill everyone on the island.
BEN: He changed the rules.
I think the “torch the island” line was also evidence against Widmore being good. Faraday sure was worried when he heard about the secondary protocol.
Point being the BAD guys always seem to change on the show and with 34 more episodes left, they will change again.[/quote]
******************************************
haha, i get it…you are a ‘Ben-apologist’…;)it’s cool…
and yes, by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)…or at the very least crazy…i mean he he stuck a knife in a persons back, for God’s sack…but at least with Locke it seemed out of character…with Ben it’s par for the course…he has lied about pretty much everything, whenever possible and has had no qualms about sacraficing anyone or killing them himself if he thinks it’s necessary…i can totally get liking his character and maybe even respecting his conviction…but in my opinion, he cannot be considered to be one of the ‘good-guys’ in any way, shape or form…all we have to go on is the actions we’ve seen the characters do and i think Ben’s past actions support my opinion…;)
the only argument for him being okay, is that he’s trying to protect the island…but who says that protecting this island -where you have to admit that some jacked up stuff has happened- is a good thing?
[quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.[/quote]
——
I’d dispute that;
Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
I’m sure Jin made it off and we will see that he makes it back to the island. (my theory)
By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
Now Keamy; 200% bad. Hope they come up with more villains next season. But I think we will see one of the Losties is really a mole! Desmond I think.[/quote]
*********************************************
i think they are all evil SOB’s, as i stated in an earlier post so i’m with you there for sure…except for one part….ben did let some of the survivors go, but he was never completely honest with any of them and there was always a catch…yeah, he’s a real stand up guy for sure, haha
[quote comment="229839"][quote comment="229832"]
Didn’t he try to do that already? (steal Aaron)[/quote]
I can’t remember, of hand, if Ben has tried to kidnap Aaron or not. I remember Rousseaou trying to in Season 1.
Ethan kidnapped Claire but not under Ben’s orders.
At least that is what Juliet made us believe.
JULIET: He kidnapped her, on his own. That was never the plan.
Was their another time I can’t think of? Unless you are thinking he took her from Claire and left him to Sawyer.[/quote]
*******************************************
good point…;) but let’s not forget that Juliet hasn’t always been the most honest person on this show and for quite a while during season three her character and loyalties were questionable at best…so in my opinion her ‘testimony’ isn’t necessarily super reliable…
haha…one last post before i go to bed…it’s all good and i love debating the ‘moral value’ of certain characters with you all but i would like to suggest this:
-Anyone who thinks the Others are good and cool people…go back and watch seasons 1, 2 and 3…yeah, i’d LOVE to be stranded on an island with those guys, haha
-Anyone who thinks Ben is a good and cool guy…just go back and watch the end of season 2 and season 3 (i won’t even get into all the shady crap he’s done this season)…yeah, i’d love to be stranded on an island with this creep too, haha
also, don’t get me wrong…i DO NOT think Widmore and/or Mr. Paik are nice people…i was only playing Devils’ advocate…
peace out good people…LOST rules…;)
[quote comment="229778"]I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.[/quote]
But if your theory is right, then it means that Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Boone, Shannon must have redeemed themselves. You can say Eko and possibly Boone did redeem themselves, but I am not sure you can say Shannon and Libby did. And what about Sawyer? The guy sacrificed himself for his friends (and has done a few other heroic things recently). If that doesn’t qualify as redeeming oneself, what the heck will?
JMO,
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="229783"][quote comment="229778"]How come everyone accepts the story that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is a fake planted by Whitmore?[/quote]
Well, because it IS a fake planted by Widmore? LOL.
No, I know I thought twice about it, and your idea did cross my mind. But we saw the photos of the empty graves, the bill of sale for the fake plane and Frank KNOWS the pilot wasn’t his friend, Seth.
I understood that Seth was the pilot who took his place, hence the one who flew the plane that crashed… did I get something wrong?
You are right about the redeeming of others… and how about the Others? Or those two who got buried alive? Maybe only a few people were chosen?
Still, to ‘explain’ everything I would be loking for a simple answer, not a qualified one. This is television, they have to be able to explain it in one act break.
The search goes on.
[quote comment="229937"][quote comment="229778"]I said it before (and had it be discounted)… I still think it is possble that they are all dead and have been given a chance by the island (through some sort of time or interdimensional shifting) to redeem themselves… and the island only releases them once they do.[/quote]
But if your theory is right, then it means that Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Boone, Shannon must have redeemed themselves. You can say Eko and possibly Boone did redeem themselves, but I am not sure you can say Shannon and Libby did. And what about Sawyer? The guy sacrificed himself for his friends (and has done a few other heroic things recently). If that doesn’t qualify as redeeming oneself, what the heck will?
******************************************
it’s a strecth but you could argue that Shannon redeemed herself by watching after Vincent and falling for Sayid, there by becomming a better and less-selfish person…like i said, it’s a stretch…;) Libby is easy tho…she kept Hurley from jumping off of a cliff in season two…that alone could be what redeemed her or what the island wanted her for…just a thought…;)
[quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.[/quote]
***********************************
Well, the chopper DID go into the ocean without a place to land, and they lived. Michael’s “delay” saved Sun’s life, and Aaron and Desmond, and probably allowed Jin to live too, by giving him time to get to the deck, instead of blowing up in the bomb room with Michael. Red shirts, as usual, are on their own.
hey, just to stimulate conversation…i was wondering what everyone’s favorite season is? i ask because i’ve read alot of stuff online where people are saying this season (4) is their favorite, so now i’m curious…;)
my personal favorite is 3 (followed closely by 1)…
[quote comment="229830"]I think it would be easier to try to figure out who’s good, most everyone on the island is bad, except Hurley, and maybe Rose, but she’s married to a dentist, and dentists are bad![/quote]
**************************************
this is true…especially if you go back to before they all crashed on the island…MOST of the characters were leading ‘morally-bankrupt’ (haha) lives…;)and they (the 06) don’t seem to be doing so well since getting rescued either…;)
[quote comment="229896"]
by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
good point[/quote]
What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.
Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.
I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.
[quote comment="229847"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
——
By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^
Overreacting? I admit I haven’t rewatched the episode yet, but I thought Sun was screaming and carrying on because she WANTED to go back for Jin, and then got upset that they didn’t go back to look for him.
Widmore may not have denied responsibility for Alex’s death, but he certainly didn’t claim it either.
IMHO, Ben is worse than Widmore, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my opinion changed.[/quote]
——-
So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.
Widmore NOT saying; I DIDN”T kill her or have her killed means one thing!
And his plan B was to kill everyone on the Island via Keamy. Widmore hired a bloody maniac killer to do his bidding!
Ben does not kill unless he has a reason (How many times does he have to tell you… John!). He also admits that emotion got the best of him when he killed Keamy.
Can’t wait for the South Park parody; “Keamy’s (Kenny) Dead!
I WANT the back story on Patchy!
[quote comment="230054"][quote comment="229896"]
by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
good point[/quote]
What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.
Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.
I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.[/quote]
******************************************
so, you’d like to wait until you’ve heard all the evidence at the end of season six before discussing your opinions?
i actually do read your whole posts, i just don’t always comment on every point you make in all of them…it’s all good…i thought the point of this blog (or any blog really) was to debate theories, put forth opinions and impressions and talk to other Lost fans…if you choose to drop out of this particular debate then cool…;) i never meant for it to be a big debate anyways, my original comment was just that IN MY OPINION, Ben showed his true colors once again in the finale AND that i thought it was interesting how some people seemed to think that Ben and the Others were the ‘good guys’ now…then you commented on my post…then some other people commented too…and we were talking about it…which was the whole point, to talk about the show…like i said, if you’re tired of the subject, cool…seems that we don’t agree some stuff and that’s cool too…;) we are all entitled to our opinions, right?
ps-i’m stoked when people disagree with me on blogs…it what makes me re-think things…be a pretty boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else…;)
“Ethan kidnapped Claire but not under Ben’s orders.
At least that is what Juliet made us believe.
JULIET: He kidnapped her, on his own. That was never the plan.” Lost4Ever
and this was what i was saying ‘good point’ too…that’s why i went to to give an opinion about Juliet…
“but let’s not forget that Juliet hasn’t always been the most honest person on this show and for quite a while during season three her character and loyalties were questionable at best…so in my opinion her ‘testimony’ isn’t necessarily super reliable…” ESB
sorry i didn’t clarify…
[quote comment="230063"][quote comment="229847"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
——
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^
[/quote]
——-
So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.
[/quote]
**************************
I’m not sure that there is a RATIONAL sort of response to watching your husband die. Did you really expect her to sit down and calmly call down to Jin, “sorry honey, you’re going to die but you understand, we have ourselves to think of”? You’re not married, are you?
[quote comment="230063"][quote comment="229847"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"].[/quote]
——
By the way Sun screaming on the Chopper was some pretty bad overacting to me. And I would have jumped on her ass and said settle down if she acted that crazy. She didn’t even wait to scan the water carefully…VERY hard to see a bobbing head in the confusion so she was just assuming Jin was dead.
Widmore didn’t deny to Ben that he was responsible for Ben’s daughter’s death; he is Bad. He acts like a prick too. Ben, sure he’s Bad but not all Bad; he lived up to the bargain to let some Losties go!
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^
Overreacting? I admit I haven’t rewatched the episode yet, but I thought Sun was screaming and carrying on because she WANTED to go back for Jin, and then got upset that they didn’t go back to look for him.
Widmore may not have denied responsibility for Alex’s death, but he certainly didn’t claim it either.
IMHO, Ben is worse than Widmore, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my opinion changed.[/quote]
——-
So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.
Widmore NOT saying; I DIDN”T kill her or have her killed means one thing!
And his plan B was to kill everyone on the Island via Keamy. Widmore hired a bloody maniac killer to do his bidding!
Ben does not kill unless he has a reason (How many times does he have to tell you… John!). He also admits that emotion got the best of him when he killed Keamy.
Can’t wait for the South Park parody; “Keamy’s (Kenny) Dead!
I WANT the back story on Patchy![/quote]
****************************************
-my opinion of Sun’s reaction to everything was that she was hysterical and grief stricken and not ‘thinking’ logically…as a married person, it seemed like a pretty reasonable reaction to seeing your spouse apparently die and/or get left behind…
-as for ‘Widmore vs. Ben’…i think it’s probably safe to say that they both have their own agendas and God help you if you get in their way…Neither are saints…;)
-backstory on Patchy would be VERY cool, as would the back story on Rousseau…hopefully we’ll get both before it’s all done…
Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
ummm, let me guess….
Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.
Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.
[quote comment="230063"]So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.
[/quote]
Oh Bobola,
In the beginning, Sun was screaming to go WAIT for and then go BACK for Jin, and then she was screaming because she watched the freighter explode and her husband with it (for all we know). How is THAT over-reacting?
I don’t think she was saying “screw you” to everyone else. I don’t think she had time to make the connection. She was thinking ONLY of what she was leaving and losing: her husband and the father of the baby she was carrying. It is a natural and normal response in a moment of fear.
I don’t think that makes her a crazy lady.
: ) P
[quote comment="230074"]Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
ummm, let me guess….
Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.
Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.[/quote]
************************************
are there characters who have gotten DUI’s or had other ‘issues’ that are still on the show?
i can admire making a statement about drunk driving, but it’s a little disturbing that those things might be totally affecting the direction of the story and characters…i mean what if ‘Jack’ or ‘Ben’ or ‘Sun’ or ‘Locke’ get a DUI?
[quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.
——
I’d dispute that;
Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
[/quote]
______________________________________
I don’t think Jack could have done a lot of swimming with his recent surgery. He was already barely standing.
Aaron would not make it.
Sun is five-six months pregnant- not the best time to “swim for your life”.
Hurley not a very good swimmer.
[quote comment="230074"]Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
ummm, let me guess….
Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.
Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.[/quote]
Well D&C *claim* that both Adewale and Michelle had only signed one year contracts and that the DUI’s played no part in Eko and Ana-Lucia’s deaths. I think that if that *IS* the case, they were BOTH pretty short-sighted to do it. “Hmmm… I am being invited to participate in one of the biggest and best shows on television ever, but eh, I think I will only do it for a year.”
As for Cynthia’s character, she died, but has appeared in flashbacks. Whether or not Jin is dead, we are going to see him again, I am pretty sure – in flashbacks, as an apparition, or on the island alive. Besides, Daniel’s DUI was back in October, if they really wanted to kick him off the show for that, they wouldn’t have brought his character back after the WGA strike.
So despite the cast’s apparent inability to hold their liquor, I don’t think their DUI’s have played too big a part in each character’s survival.
JMO,
: ) P
[quote comment="230065"][quote comment="230054"][quote comment="229896"]
by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
good point[/quote]
What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.
Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.
I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.[/quote]
******************************************
so, you’d like to wait until you’ve heard all the evidence at the end of season six before discussing your opinions?
i actually do read your whole posts, i just don’t always comment on every point you make in all of them…it’s all good…i thought the point of this blog (or any blog really) was to debate theories, put forth opinions and impressions and talk to other Lost fans…if you choose to drop out of this particular debate then cool…;) i never meant for it to be a big debate anyways, my original comment was just that IN MY OPINION, Ben showed his true colors once again in the finale AND that i thought it was interesting how some people seemed to think that Ben and the Others were the ‘good guys’ now…then you commented on my post…then some other people commented too…and we were talking about it…which was the whole point, to talk about the show…like i said, if you’re tired of the subject, cool…seems that we don’t agree some stuff and that’s cool too…;) we are all entitled to our opinions, right?
ps-i’m stoked when people disagree with me on blogs…it what makes me re-think things…be a pretty boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else…;)[/quote]
################
Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.
[quote comment="230089"][quote comment="230065"][quote comment="230054"][quote comment="229896"]
by that logic Locke is bad too (by the way, i never said i thought Locke was a ‘good guy’)[/quote]
Great, and I Never said Ben was a good guy. [quote comment="229908"]
good point[/quote]
What point are you referring to? I was just replying to a question that was asked and stated 2 facts.
Sorry ESB, but it seems like you don’t read my whole posts or at least you interpret them wrong.
I’m done with the whole Good vs. bad, I like to wait until I’ve heard all the eveidence and then render a verdict.[/quote]
******************************************
so, you’d like to wait until you’ve heard all the evidence at the end of season six before discussing your opinions?
i actually do read your whole posts, i just don’t always comment on every point you make in all of them…it’s all good…i thought the point of this blog (or any blog really) was to debate theories, put forth opinions and impressions and talk to other Lost fans…if you choose to drop out of this particular debate then cool…;) i never meant for it to be a big debate anyways, my original comment was just that IN MY OPINION, Ben showed his true colors once again in the finale AND that i thought it was interesting how some people seemed to think that Ben and the Others were the ‘good guys’ now…then you commented on my post…then some other people commented too…and we were talking about it…which was the whole point, to talk about the show…like i said, if you’re tired of the subject, cool…seems that we don’t agree some stuff and that’s cool too…;) we are all entitled to our opinions, right?
ps-i’m stoked when people disagree with me on blogs…it what makes me re-think things…be a pretty boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else…;)[/quote]
################
Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
******************************
haha, yeah, i’ve noticed…;) it’s all good tho…i love the show and love to debate so…no harm, no foul…;)
[quote comment="230089"]
Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.
[quote comment="230101"]
I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
I also tend to get snippy when I have been drinking. Drunk-blogging is almost as bad as drunk-dialing.
[quote comment="230107"][quote comment="230101"]
I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
I also tend to get snippy when I have been drinking. Drunk-blogging is almost as bad as drunk-dialing.[/quote]
**************************************
haha, yeah, i try to avoid drunk-blogging, if at all possible…;)
and i most certainly didn’t mean to ‘twist your words’ and if i did so, i sincerely apologize…
like i said, it’s all good and no harm, no foul…i’m not here to have bad feelings and be upset or pissed off…if i wanted that i’d go back to the sports blogs…;)
[quote comment="229836"][quote comment="229830"]
Thanks:). I just tried to write back to you , but I did not see my post. So here goes again. Do you think Jin is the father? I thought people brought up a good point about Michael. What are your thoughts?[/quote]
I think Jin is the father, but honestly, it might not effect my OVERALL experience of the show. But if it is Michael, would he be like CS? I mean having 2 children with 2 different women from 2 different cultures. Maybe also even like Widmore, IN THAT SENSE( Penny and Libby )? And if Jin was the father, it would be a MIRACLE.
Sometimes the post doesn’t appear to go through right away. It used to happen to me all the time. My browser only updates every 5 minutes.
[/quote]
****
Libby’s Widmore’s daughter?? When was this?
[quote comment="230122"]
Libby’s Widmore’s daughter?? When was this?[/quote]
It was never stated only speculated on previous posts, hence the Maybe and the question mark.
[quote comment="229836"] Maybe also even like Widmore, IN THAT SENSE( Penny and Libby )? [/quote]
[quote comment="230101"][quote comment="230089"]
Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
########################
I have always found you helpful. And i think we all get a little testy when it comes to “newbies” who don’t follow the rules. Shoot i still consider myself a newbie and on i’m on this site almost everyday
on post #579 lost 4 ever asked id Ben was gonna steal Aaron? I totally think is something that could possibly be going on off-island, it would help explain Kate’s extreme paranoia about the baby.
I don’t necessarily think there has to be a mole amongst the Losties. Couldn’t Widmore have gotten his information straight from Keamy? Isn’t it possible he has a way to communicate with the man that hired him?
[quote comment="230153"]on post #579 lost 4 ever asked id Ben was gonna steal Aaron? I totally think is something that could possibly be going on off-island, it would help explain Kate’s extreme paranoia about the baby.[/quote]
******************************
In Kate’s “vision”, Claire was ADAMENT about NOT taking Aaron back to the island under any circumstances. Ben, however, is just adament that they ALL have to go back. After re-watching the Ben-at-the-funeral-home scene, it struck me that Ben is “doing it again” – he’s being manipulative and Jack is buying it. Think about it: When has been EVER been genuinely helpful? Why is he speaking in a sort of conspiritorial tone of voice, telling Jack “I have some ideas” for getting everyone else to go back to the island? I don’t know if he wants to steal Aaron, but he DEFINITELY has an agenda and can’t be trusted.
Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.
[quote comment="228743"][quote comment="228702"]Here’s just a thought that may be relevant to the timelines:
Ben and Locke go to the Orchid. Ben starts filling it up with metal, to Locke’s dismay. Ben starts the machine, which blows a big hole in the wall. According to the video, the machine was built in close proximity to an anomaly that had been discovered (the wheel – although I suspect Dharma never found the actual wheel). If this had been done before, the hole would already be there. The wheel room was built in Jacob-fashion, ie the oil lamp and the old wooden ladders. Instead of entering a sequence in a computer (DI style), one had to turn a mechanical wheel.
So, I’ll throw out the theory that the island has not been moved since at least the beginning of the DI, sometime in the early to mid-Seventies.[/quote]
I think that is a great observation. I suspect that much of DI’s outwardly visible research was intended to distract the workers from the “real” research that was going on behind closed doors.
: ) P[/quote]
———-
I thought the same thing about the island not moving before the whole DI experiment. I had a conversation with my brother, who is an avid watcher, and mentioned this. What he understood it as the island has moved and most recently. He thought the whole purple sky event we saw, after Ben turned the wheel, was the same event as Desmond turning the FAIL-SAFE key. Hence, when Desmond turned the key, he moved the island unknowingly. I am not sure what to think but we did see the same purple sky event.
Maybe Keamy wrote that note so the Losties wouldn’t trust the Captain and the bad things the Captain might say about Keamy and his intentions….
[quote comment="230174"]Maybe Keamy wrote that note so the Losties wouldn’t trust the Captain and the bad things the Captain might say about Keamy and his intentions….[/quote]
******************************
It’s not clear that the captain KNEW Keamy’s intentions before the gun incident.
[quote comment="230149"][quote comment="230101"][quote comment="230089"]
Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
########################
I have always found you helpful. And i think we all get a little testy when it comes to “newbies” who don’t follow the rules. Shoot i still consider myself a newbie and on i’m on this site almost everyday
[/quote] 
:):):):):):):)
TY Jaime. I try to be helpful and I do get testy. So I guess ANON is right, but “quite often”, I don’t think so. I am not sure what ANON was talking about when he said “many many occasions”. He/she has 3 posts all year unless he/she is also ANON2, then maybe 10. Never the less, we are all entitled to our own opinion, even if we just lurk, then jump out of the shadows to put someone down. That little island is looking better and better all the time.
Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.
[quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]
Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
*************************************
The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation!
[quote comment="230159"]I don’t necessarily think there has to be a mole amongst the Losties. Couldn’t Widmore have gotten his information straight from Keamy? Isn’t it possible he has a way to communicate with the man that hired him?[/quote]
Good point. Maybe when Keamy got back to the freighter he contacted Widmore. It would have been nice if they showed that though, instead of making the viewer assume it.
[quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]
Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
*************************************
The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation![/quote]
———–
I always took it that Michael slipped Des and Sayid the note. The reason being for what they were about to hear, the Captain telling them that Ben was responsible for the fake plane.
[quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
Completely agree. The fail-safe was built by Dharma and the wheel was there long before the good old DI. The sky changing as a result of both actions were the same for the viewer though. I never thought if it that way until my brother brought it up.
[quote comment="230074"]Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character,
Ana-Lucia = Michelle R = DUI = dead character,
Libby = Cynthia W = DUI = dead character,
ummm, let me guess….
Jin = Daniel K = DUI = DEAD character.
Disney Domestic TV & ABC have a tough policy that demands its employees adhere to the same standards as society. DUI = severance check.[/quote]
_______________________
All these people got DUIs?!!? What bar did they hold auditions for this show?
[quote comment="230187"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
Completely agree. The fail-safe was built by Dharma and the wheel was there long before the good old DI. The sky changing as a result of both actions were the same for the viewer though. I never thought if it that way until my brother brought it up.[/quote]
*******************************
Either way, a massive discharge of magnetic energy? If that’s what moved the island, then I would say it was moved twice (Desmond and Ben). It wasn’t until AFTER Desmond moved it (if that is what happened) that contact was able to be made from the outside. Maybe moved it back to it’s previously known location?
[quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
[quote comment="230187"]Completely agree. The fail-safe was built by Dharma and the wheel was there long before the good old DI. The sky changing as a result of both actions were the same for the viewer though. I never thought if it that way until my brother brought it up.[/quote]
Hmmm… good points.
First, I think it is possible that the FDW *was* the invention of DI. They may have used that new-age elevator-time shifter thing to HIDE the FDW until it was necessary to use it. I really think that much of the open experimentation was a ruse behind which the REAL experiments were hidden.
Second, I think the idea that the fail-safe time-shifted the island makes some sense, but we will have to see how it plays out. Perhaps that is what explains the time difference between the rocket and the watch, or the time shift between the freighter and the island. The time difference cannot be TOO great though, because there was a calendar on the freighter, and the Oceanic representative was talking about them finding a raft on day 103 and coming ashore on day 108, which can’t be TOO far off from “island” count.
Very curious, all of it!
: ) P
[quote comment="230080"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.
——
I’d dispute that;
Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
[/quote]
______________________________________
I don’t think Jack could have done a lot of swimming with his recent surgery. He was already barely standing.
Aaron would not make it.
Sun is five-six months pregnant- not the best time to “swim for your life”.
Hurley not a very good swimmer.[/quote]
————
They were not that far from the island;
Working together they could have done it…after all, they didn’t all drown when the Chopper went down, did they?
They had vests and could have shared keeping Aaron afloat. Hurley’s filled with buoyant fat. If he’s too weak to tread water; well, Darwin at work.
Sun has the motivation to keep going with her kid; seen plenty of very pregnant women do physically demanding things.
Jack had the quick healing magic of the island to help him up until it went poof. Come on. he already traipsed across the island.
And what sort of ridiculous comment is this;
You aren’t married? So, married people can’t keep their cool in an emergency? Sun had her own unborn kid and another baby on the Chopper to worry about plus all the others…so bouncing off the walls of the chopper was…not a good survival technique for the group.
And Sun cheated on her hubby before so please spare me the “married” vs not comments. Seems unkind. I never cheated on my wife but I won’t make any value judgments. But we may also find out later that Sun is the Mole!
I’m sure plenty of other people would get hysterical in the same situation but Sun was so cool before that I didn’t expect of her. I take all bets that Jin is alive. But if I was Jin the instant I saw the Chopper lift off; BAM, I’d hit the water and swim like I was heading for Korea!
He knew the Ship was gonna blow.
So, don’t shoot the messenger.
[quote comment="230195"][quote comment="230080"][quote comment="229822"][quote comment="229779"]It was mentioned earlier that Michael served no purpose to staying alive on the freighter but he saved everyone that landed on the deck in the helicopter (Lapidus, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kate) because they would have gone into the ocean without a place to land or without a place to take off from after getting some gas. If the bomb had gone off immediately when Keamy died, none of them would have lived.
——
I’d dispute that;
Insted of getting on the chopper they could have jumped off and swam for it. By the time it blew it wasn’t all that far away that people with strong survival skill (which they all have) would not be able to make the distance back to the island…especially if they grabbed onto some debris from the freighter or even grabbed a life vest or life saver from the Freighter before leaping.
[/quote]
______________________________________
I don’t think Jack could have done a lot of swimming with his recent surgery. He was already barely standing.
Aaron would not make it.
Sun is five-six months pregnant- not the best time to “swim for your life”.
Hurley not a very good swimmer.[/quote]
————
They were not that far from the island;
Working together they could have done it…after all, they didn’t all drown when the Chopper went down, did they?
They had vests and could have shared keeping Aaron afloat. Hurley’s filled with buoyant fat. If he’s too weak to tread water; well, Darwin at work.
Sun has the motivation to keep going with her kid; seen plenty of very pregnant women do physically demanding things.
Jack had the quick healing magic of the island to help him up until it went poof. Come on. he already traipsed across the island.
And what sort of ridiculous comment is this;
You aren’t married? So, married people can’t keep their cool in an emergency? Sun had her own unborn kid and another baby on the Chopper to worry about plus all the others…so bouncing off the walls of the chopper was…not a good survival technique for the group.
And Sun cheated on her hubby before so please spare me the “married” vs not comments. Seems unkind. I never cheated on my wife but I won’t make any value judgments. But we may also find out later that Sun is the Mole!
I’m sure plenty of other people would get hysterical in the same situation but Sun was so cool before that I didn’t expect of her. I take all bets that Jin is alive. But if I was Jin the instant I saw the Chopper lift off; BAM, I’d hit the water and swim like I was heading for Korea!
He knew the Ship was gonna blow.
So, don’t shoot the messenger.[/quote]
Let’s not forget that Michael keeping the bomb frozen allowed for the helicopter to land and take off. The helicopter got high enough to keep from moving with the Island. Michael allowed for the Oceanic Six to make it off the island and that’s how he redeemed himself.
[/quote]
_________[/quote]
———-
Let’s not forget that Michael keeping the bomb frozen allowed for the helicopter to land and take off. The helicopter got high enough to keep from moving with the Island. Michael allowed for the Oceanic Six to make it off the island and that’s how he redeemed himself.[/quote]
This is a brilliant point! We were all trying to figure out how Michael blowing up with the ship after the eminent threat was removed made any sense.
MICHAEL ALLOWED THE O6 TO LEAVE
that makes so much sense now!
[quote comment="229706"][quote comment="229390"]well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .i would have been happier if it all ended right there.read most of the posts,mmmmm is all i can say about it.as most of you know ive watched since jacks eye, but …..i grow tired of the show …me thinks they re dragging it out …..???[/quote]
—————
Bah Humbug?
Oh, come on…
for me it’s just getting started;
They have the game set up…
now to answer all the questions and see if the Losties off island now can get back …and why do they HAVE to get back?
Sun is going to be a big contender and we still have to flesh out Miles and Charlotte.
Sawyer will hook up again with….?
Alpert needs some splainin’ and the weird Others with him. More stations to discover?
And then there’s Ben…by the way he didn’t just “beat up” those guys in the desert (as one wrote), he gave them the Big Sleep.
But why was he photographing Sayid? Ben sure has taken his share of blows in the show…tough little weasel is he.
So; Just getting started, me thinks.[/quote]
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im sorry??
are you new here ?
[quote comment="228234"][quote comment="228202"]Regarding the metal stuff put in the little room that blew a hole in the wall – maybe it has to be done this way now since the swan? was imploded with the failsafe key.
It may have needed a magnetic pull or push to get to the hole of the donkey wheel.
Maybe
[/quote]
Looked to me like the Orchid was built over the donkey wheel. The idea was to run the orchid off of the intense power of the ancient donkey wheel device. I dont think that anything is supposed to blow a hole in the wall, but Ben knows it will work, and that he can get down to the original structure.
This was a very cool scene.. I want to know more about the pre-Dharma history of this island. And being that I think some people are eternal, due to island powers (Richard) i hope we can get some flashbacks in s5 s6 to the original inhabitants, who would have constructed that donkey wheel and that four toed statue…[/quote]
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I think the donkey wheel is or was part of the black rock ??? didnt ships have one ? but men push them ,not donkeys because the ones donkeys pushed were bigger and had one arm not six arms ,ie… six sailors?
[quote comment="230075"][quote comment="230063"]So Sun’s Attitude was; Screw everyone on the Chopper including the baby and the fact there’s no fuel; let’s just go get Jin who MIGHT even be dead already.
Right. (she’s sure no Spock; the concerns of the many outweigh…)
Sit the hell down crazy lady and don’t rock the Chopper…hell, they didn’t even make it back to the island before they had to ditch.
[/quote]
Oh Bobola,
In the beginning, Sun was screaming to go WAIT for and then go BACK for Jin, and then she was screaming because she watched the freighter explode and her husband with it (for all we know). How is THAT over-reacting?
I don’t think she was saying “screw you” to everyone else. I don’t think she had time to make the connection. She was thinking ONLY of what she was leaving and losing: her husband and the father of the baby she was carrying. It is a natural and normal response in a moment of fear.
I don’t think that makes her a crazy lady.
: ) P[/quote]
I wonder …would any of them be so quick to jump in any airborne machine ?given the circumstances of how they arrived at the island?? they all calmly got in the helecopter on the island …not one of them said”what if it crashes” or when it was ditching said”oh no not again “!
[quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
Desmond couldn’t have moved the island because whoever moves the island can’t ever come back.
But Ben always lies, except when he’s telling the truth.
[quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]
Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
*************************************
The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation![/quote]
The captain probably died when Keamy shot him before returning to the island.
[quote comment="230252"][quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]
Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
*************************************
The captain has gone down with his ship, yes? They did let the ball drop on that whole idea. It was as if the captain knew something and was evil somehow but we never found out any more about it. Looks like it is too late to persue this story line now. How do you remember all of these details??? Good observation![/quote]
The captain probably died when Keamy shot him before returning to the island.[/quote]
**********************************
Yes, and now that he is dead (along with most of the others on board), I guess we will never know what the note was all about.
Has anyone received an email from that Octagon Global Recruiting, DHARMA or ABC? I registered that night and haven’t heard.
: ) P
[quote comment="230298"]Has anyone received an email from that Octagon Global Recruiting, DHARMA or ABC? I registered that night and haven’t heard.
: ) P[/quote]
I think they got to DocH. He just up and vanished.
[quote comment="230149"][quote comment="230101"][quote comment="230089"]
Don’t take it personally ESB, i have been on this site on many many occasions and lost4ever tends to get an attitude quite often if you bother or bore himor her or say something that has already been said etc.[/quote]
I just don’t like my words being twisted as I am sure most people don’t. As far as something being mentioned before, I do tend to get annoyed when people write “I haven’t read all the posts”.[/quote]
########################
I have always found you helpful. And i think we all get a little testy when it comes to “newbies” who don’t follow the rules. Shoot i still consider myself a newbie and on i’m on this site almost everyday
[/quote]
***************************************
i think Lost4Ever is generally pretty helpful too…and he/she defintely knows the show…
as for being a ‘newbie’, that is definitely true, but i do read all the previous posts and i do follow the rules…;) yesterday didn’t have anything to do with that, it was just a debate…;)
so, i noticed that the transcript for the finale is on Lostpedia and i know this is a little off the subject so far today, but this probably my favorite exchange EVER between Locke and Jack…
“JACK: (Chuckles) You threw a knife into the back of an unarmed woman. You led half of our people across the island and got most of them killed.
LOCKE: Well, Jack, you put a gun to my head and you pulled the trigger. I was hoping we could let bygones be bygones. ”
classic! i laughed out loud at that part during the show…;)
[quote comment="230251"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
Desmond couldn’t have moved the island because whoever moves the island can’t ever come back.
But Ben always lies, except when he’s telling the truth.[/quote]
***********************************
If you believe the flash forwards, then we already know Ben lied about not being able to come back…since he’s telling Jack now that they all have to go back and I didn’t get the impression that he was planning on being excluded from that…and i can’t off the top of my head think of one time when Ben has been entirely truthful, haha
[quote comment="230186"][quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]
———–
I always took it that Michael slipped Des and Sayid the note. The reason being for what they were about to hear, the Captain telling them that Ben was responsible for the fake plane.[/quote]
****************************************
i think this is probably the correct theory involving the note, since they never followed up on it…
[quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….
So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.
[quote comment="230298"]Has anyone received an email from that Octagon Global Recruiting, DHARMA or ABC? I registered that night and haven’t heard.
: ) P[/quote]
Nope.
[quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….
So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.[/quote]
***********************************
Before he “returned” to the island, Desmond also did some “time traveling” after turning the fail-safe key. Might not be all that different than what happened to Ben, except that Ben was expecting it and knew what was happening. Desmond was able to “return” though, maybe Ben will too at some point.
[quote comment="230265"][quote comment="230252"][quote comment="230182"][quote comment="230167"][quote comment="230153"][/quote]
Speaking of being trusted, what was that all about, on the boat with the note to Sayid and Desmond, saying “don’t trust the captain”? Was that just a story line they dumped for the writer’s strike, or after they got an end date to the series, that they decided not to pursue? Seems odd, since the captain turned out to be a pretty decent guy.[/quote]
************************************
Michael wrote this note, because he believed it to be true. As he was informed by Ben. Seems like this happens all the time. You have to go on raw instincts here, and a lot of the time, those are the easiest to manipulate.
I gotta couple things I was up late thinking about last night, sort of related. Like, why John Locke has been acting so sketchy lately. Easy answer… he’s being manipulated by Ben to think these things.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that John Locke was put here for one purpose, and that was to make sure that Jack stayed on the island.
John is struggling to keep this in the front of his mind, but he’s getting all warped up by Ben, who seems to have his own self satisfying solution to every single one of Lockes puzzles. Once Locke goes back to the real world in order to get Jack back, he’s killed, by Ben, so that Ben can warp this action even further.
Good Whispers/Bad Whispers come into play. Everyone needs to go back to the island according to Ben… but not everyone needs to go back to the island, according to Claire. Do not bring him back, most likely means Aaron, but could possibly mean Ben… but it doesn’t mean Jack. (this leads my head into another two hour revelation and a beaut of an “Adam and Eve” vs. “Adoptive Couple in L.A” theory- that I will dispense later on…)
[quote comment="230348"][quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….
So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.[/quote]
***********************************
Before he “returned” to the island, Desmond also did some “time traveling” after turning the fail-safe key. Might not be all that different than what happened to Ben, except that Ben was expecting it and knew what was happening. Desmond was able to “return” though, maybe Ben will too at some point.[/quote]
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in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)
[quote comment="230354"]
*************************************
in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Yep, rules have changed…..
[quote comment="230364"][quote comment="230354"]
*************************************
in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Yep, rules have changed…..[/quote]
******************************************
yes, indeed…
for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)
J.Wood finally posted his LOST summary.
It is for LOST PhD’s.
The comments are good too.
http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=3350#more-3350
[quote comment="230370"]J.Wood finally posted his LOST summary.
It is for LOST PhD’s.
The comments are good too.
http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=3350#more-3350/quote
***************************
very cool…thanks!
[quote comment="230370"]J.Wood finally posted his LOST summary.
It is for LOST PhD’s.
The comments are good too.
http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=3350#more-3350/quote
*******************************
intersting part of this summary is that Jeremy Bentham is described as being an economist…;)
[quote comment="230368"][quote comment="230364"][quote comment="230354"]
*************************************
in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Yep, rules have changed…..[/quote]
******************************************
yes, indeed…
for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
My first thought during that scene was that Ben was lying because HE wanted to leave the island to pursue Penny. In hind sight, Locke isn’t ready to handle the island alone, gets into trouble, leaves the island, dies, etc., etc. Now we Ben trying to fix his mistake by telling Jack to go back and take Locke with him…..
..Ok, if you guys are gonna twist my arm, I’ll spill it now, but I dont want anybody considering this as a spoiler later on
Some people have tossed out a few Adam and Eve theories on this thread, like, I’ve read that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard, or Walt and whoever. Personally, I never considered that Adam and Eve would be the corpses of two of our Losties until recently. But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone. Also the fact that he BELONGS on the island.
Kate is not Eve though, because Kate is one half of the adoptive couple in LA, who is supposed to raise Aaron. We already know that Jack isn’t the other half there.
Nope, Jack goes back, figures out what needs to be done, saves the day at the end, and lives happily ever after on the island, with his destined other half, a doctor, yep, I mean Juliet… who become the island saviors, and are placed in the cave upon their death, with the backgammon stones, to symbolize the fact that they came together, despite one being on the island in the name of good… and one being brought to the island in the name of evil.
ok, so thats it. Someone may have already been on this tip, but I had to get it off my chest, so that I can hopefully stop having these LOST dreams at night. They are really starting to make me feel crazy!
Good theory wally p. My only hang up is that it turns out that Jack and Kate ARE the adoptive couple, it just turns out that THEY shouldn’t be raising him off the island. I don’t know that Kate would be Eve, but I’m not ready for it to be Juliette either.
But I like your thinking.
[quote comment="230373"][quote comment="230368"][quote comment="230364"][quote comment="230354"]
*************************************
in my opinion, you can absolutely count on Ben being able to go back to the island at some point…i have a very hard time believing that in the next two seasons Ben won’t be back on the island and i have an equally hard time believing that Ben was telling the truth about not being able to return to the island…he lies about EVERYTHING and i’m sure there is some kind of island-loophole he knows about…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Yep, rules have changed…..[/quote]
******************************************
yes, indeed…
for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
My first thought during that scene was that Ben was lying because HE wanted to leave the island to pursue Penny. In hind sight, Locke isn’t ready to handle the island alone, gets into trouble, leaves the island, dies, etc., etc. Now we Ben trying to fix his mistake by telling Jack to go back and take Locke with him…..[/quote]
***************************************
i can buy that…Ben wants to leave to pursue ‘other goals’, knowing that he can come back under the ‘right circumstances’, but he lies to Locke about this because he wants Locke to believe that if you do this you can’t come back…he also probably wants Locke to believe that he’s out of the picture and Locke doesn’t need to worry about him anymore…it’s just another way of manipulating and controlling Locke…
[quote comment="229390"]well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .
…me thinks they re dragging it out …..???[/quote]
——-
And on another post you asked if I’m new here…
What difference would that make?
Because I said the show is just “getting started” (I meant that figuratively).
But, no I’m not “new”…
But I wonder WHY you are here..since you seem unhappy about the show…and think it should have ended!
[quote comment="230374"]..Ok, if you guys are gonna twist my arm, I’ll spill it now, but I dont want anybody considering this as a spoiler later on
Some people have tossed out a few Adam and Eve theories on this thread, like, I’ve read that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard, or Walt and whoever. Personally, I never considered that Adam and Eve would be the corpses of two of our Losties until recently. But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone. Also the fact that he BELONGS on the island.
Kate is not Eve though, because Kate is one half of the adoptive couple in LA, who is supposed to raise Aaron. We already know that Jack isn’t the other half there.
Nope, Jack goes back, figures out what needs to be done, saves the day at the end, and lives happily ever after on the island, with his destined other half, a doctor, yep, I mean Juliet… who become the island saviors, and are placed in the cave upon their death, with the backgammon stones, to symbolize the fact that they came together, despite one being on the island in the name of good… and one being brought to the island in the name of evil.
ok, so thats it. Someone may have already been on this tip, but I had to get it off my chest, so that I can hopefully stop having these LOST dreams at night. They are really starting to make me feel crazy![/quote]
So will Kate and Sawyer be the couple to raise Aaron?
Could Claire be Eve?
The Wood essay is long, (as so far, very good) and it will take time (without the many interruptions my day has) to read it, but it does have an error:
“Locke ended up being the one in the coffin (although he was one of three options; if any leaks escaped, two other endings were ready in the wings, one with Sawyer in the coffin, and one with Desmond).”
The producers were not going to CHANGE who was in the casket in the final scene if there were leaks. They just filmed three endings so that there was only a one in three chance that a leak would be right!
: ) P
[quote comment="230374"]..Ok, if you guys are gonna twist my arm, I’ll spill it now, but I dont want anybody considering this as a spoiler later on
Some people have tossed out a few Adam and Eve theories on this thread, like, I’ve read that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard, or Walt and whoever. Personally, I never considered that Adam and Eve would be the corpses of two of our Losties until recently. But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone. Also the fact that he BELONGS on the island.
Kate is not Eve though, because Kate is one half of the adoptive couple in LA, who is supposed to raise Aaron. We already know that Jack isn’t the other half there.
Nope, Jack goes back, figures out what needs to be done, saves the day at the end, and lives happily ever after on the island, with his destined other half, a doctor, yep, I mean Juliet… who become the island saviors, and are placed in the cave upon their death, with the backgammon stones, to symbolize the fact that they came together, despite one being on the island in the name of good… and one being brought to the island in the name of evil.
ok, so thats it. Someone may have already been on this tip, but I had to get it off my chest, so that I can hopefully stop having these LOST dreams at night. They are really starting to make me feel crazy![/quote]
****************************************
no clue if it’s true or not, but i like it…i know a lot of people want Kate and Jack to be together, but Jack and Juliet make more sense to me…outside of the tension and excitement of the island, what do Kate and Jack have in common? not a whole hell of a lot…;)
the main problem is that of those three only Jack wants to be there…Kate doesn’t want to go back or have anything to do with Jack now and all Juliet ever wanted was to leave so…
i love your point/theory about the stones tho…Jack did pocket them and they were never mentioned or seen again…hmmm
i have yet to be able to wrap my brian around this one in any solid way but i personally like the theory out there that ‘Adam and Eve’ are Aaron and Ji Yeon Kwon and that at some point the stones are given to them by Jack and Juliet/Kate…
haha, still don’t see any possible way for the writers to wrap all of this up in two shorter seasons…;)
[quote comment="230385"][quote comment="230374"]..Ok, if you guys are gonna twist my arm, I’ll spill it now, but I dont want anybody considering this as a spoiler later on
Some people have tossed out a few Adam and Eve theories on this thread, like, I’ve read that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard, or Walt and whoever. Personally, I never considered that Adam and Eve would be the corpses of two of our Losties until recently. But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone. Also the fact that he BELONGS on the island.
Kate is not Eve though, because Kate is one half of the adoptive couple in LA, who is supposed to raise Aaron. We already know that Jack isn’t the other half there.
Nope, Jack goes back, figures out what needs to be done, saves the day at the end, and lives happily ever after on the island, with his destined other half, a doctor, yep, I mean Juliet… who become the island saviors, and are placed in the cave upon their death, with the backgammon stones, to symbolize the fact that they came together, despite one being on the island in the name of good… and one being brought to the island in the name of evil.
ok, so thats it. Someone may have already been on this tip, but I had to get it off my chest, so that I can hopefully stop having these LOST dreams at night. They are really starting to make me feel crazy![/quote]
****************************************
no clue if it’s true or not, but i like it…i know a lot of people want Kate and Jack to be together, but Jack and Juliet make more sense to me…outside of the tension and excitement of the island, what do Kate and Jack have in common? not a whole hell of a lot…;)
the main problem is that of those three only Jack wants to be there…Kate doesn’t want to go back or have anything to do with Jack now and all Juliet ever wanted was to leave so…
i love your point/theory about the stones tho…Jack did pocket them and they were never mentioned or seen again…hmmm
i have yet to be able to wrap my brian around this one in any solid way but i personally like the theory out there that ‘Adam and Eve’ are Aaron and Ji Yeon Kwon and that at some point the stones are given to them by Jack and Juliet/Kate…
haha, still don’t see any possible way for the writers to wrap all of this up in two shorter seasons…;)[/quote]
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‘my brian’??? hahaha
[quote comment="230385"]the main problem is that of those three only Jack wants to be there…Kate doesn’t want to go back or have anything to do with Jack now and all Juliet ever wanted was to leave so…
i love your point/theory about the stones tho…Jack did pocket them and they were never mentioned or seen again…hmmm[/quote]
Juliet wants to get back to her sister. If while they’re in the real world, someone finds out Juliet’s sister and baby have died, her reason to leave the island diminishes.
I like Kate and Sawyer being the adoptive couple. Claire told Locke that Aaron was where he was supposed to be while Sawyer was holding him.
Adam and Eve… well there’s all kind of theories. For all we know, it is Rose and Bernard. They must still be on the island!
: ) P
They’d have to re-introduce her character (because i don’t think that it’s Charlotte one bit) but there is also the idea that Adam and Eve are Ben and Annie…sheesh, who knows?!
[quote comment="230390"][quote comment="230385"]
I like Kate and Sawyer being the adoptive couple. Claire told Locke that Aaron was where he was supposed to be while Sawyer was holding him.
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="230348"][quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….
So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.[/quote]
***********************************
Before he “returned” to the island, Desmond also did some “time traveling” after turning the fail-safe key. Might not be all that different than what happened to Ben, except that Ben was expecting it and knew what was happening. Desmond was able to “return” though, maybe Ben will too at some point.[/quote]
#########################
Here is what i think on this matter
The island never physically moves. When Desmond turned the key he made the island visible to the outside world. When Ben turned the wheel he made the island “disappear” to the outside world. I believe the 305 heading will now change as well.
I wonder WHY Widmore decided to plant a fake plane in the ocean. What made him think that Losties were on the island and how would he have known they were on the island before the freighter arrived? I too suspect there is a mole on the island! Does anyone know when/what date it was that the fake plane crash site was discovered? And didn’t they put dead bodies of Korean people in the plane (or was it Phillipine? I have to go back and watch). That would just lead me more to believe that Sun’s father is in cahoots with Widmore.
I guess now that we know who was in the Coffin A&E will be in every post.
I suggested Aaron and Ji Young as soon as we new Ji Young was a girl. Somehow it just makes sense to me.
A&E don’t have to be a couple either. They were laid out several feet apart, not as a couple. This opens the possibilities up to many others. It also knnd of removes Rose and Bernard or Des and Penny from the list as they were definite couples.
Could be:
Good and bad
Both conceived on the islans
Both born on the island
Saved the island
Alpert &
Alex &
My gut still says Aaron and Ji but who knows what twists will change my mind later?
hey, at the very end of that article by J. Wood, he asks the question:
“did anyone see the Hurley bird in this episode?”
i did not. did any of you? and if so where/when?
[quote comment="230394"]I wonder WHY Widmore decided to plant a fake plane in the ocean. What made him think that Losties were on the island and how would he have known they were on the island before the freighter arrived? I too suspect there is a mole on the island! Does anyone know when/what date it was that the fake plane crash site was discovered? And didn’t they put dead bodies of Korean people in the plane (or was it Phillipine? I have to go back and watch). That would just lead me more to believe that Sun’s father is in cahoots with Widmore.[/quote]
I agree Mr. Paik is/was working for Widmore. I think Widmore found out about the Losties at the end of season 2 when Des turned the fail-safe and the eloectromagnetic anamoly appeared on the radar. The 2 men who saw the radar contacted Penny. He may have been keeping a close eye on her, or Penny may have even told him not knowing any better. The fake plane was discovered about 10 days after this event. The bodies were dug up in Thailand.
[quote comment="230390"]
Juliet wants to get back to her sister. If while they’re in the real world, someone finds out Juliet’s sister and baby have died, her reason to leave the island diminishes.
: ) P[/quote]
That’s what I assumed also. That’s why I found it odd that she did not want to get on the raft when Faraday asked her. Was she afraid if she left her sister might get sick again?
[quote comment="230368"]
for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)[/quote]
Yep. It reminds me of the good old hatch days. Locke got stuck under the door and Ben started testing his “island faith” about pushing the button.
My questions regarding the theory that Desmond potentially moved the island.
Desmond turned a fail-safe key, if that key actually moved the island, what would have happened if he did not turn the key?
It appeared that the magnetic force was drawing objects in, until he turned the fail-safe key thereby allowing that particular hatch to implode.
If he had moved the island, Ben and Co. seemed rather non-chalant on that pier.
Weren’t Sayid & Jin on a boat circling the island at the time of Desmond turning the key? It seems they would have ended up just floating around.
IMO, not everything that happens on the show has a reason, and I’m almost certain that a great deal of things will be attributed to island mythos. I think there are a lot of theatrics and red herrings built into the show.
That stated, for me:
Purple sky =theatrics/island mythos.
Whispers/island mythos (sorry Hammer).
Smoke Monster/ island mythos…psych your mind!…I think that one will be explained.
Black & white stones/island mythos.
Adam & Eve…dare I say it…island mythos.
The identity of the Economist…theatrics.
Psychic of Claire…theatrics.
Daniel’s Constant…theatrics.
Magic Box that Ben spoke of that brought anything you wanted (or whatever he said)…theatrics (do they think we’ll forget about that?)
that’s all I got for now.
I don’t watch the Daily show but my sister emailed this link to me. I thought I would share it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1E5TPafClzo
[quote comment="230407"][quote comment="230390"]
Juliet wants to get back to her sister. If while they’re in the real world, someone finds out Juliet’s sister and baby have died, her reason to leave the island diminishes.
: ) P[/quote]
That’s what I assumed also. That’s why I found it odd that she did not want to get on the raft when Faraday asked her. Was she afraid if she left her sister might get sick again?[/quote]
###############################
I’m thinking that she realizes her destiny may be to stay on the island. She, unlike Jack, is following up on her commitment to stay on the island until she could get everyone off.
[quote comment="230412"][quote comment="230407"][quote comment="230390"]
Juliet wants to get back to her sister. If while they’re in the real world, someone finds out Juliet’s sister and baby have died, her reason to leave the island diminishes.
: ) P[/quote]
That’s what I assumed also. That’s why I found it odd that she did not want to get on the raft when Faraday asked her. Was she afraid if she left her sister might get sick again?[/quote]
###############################
I’m thinking that she realizes her destiny may be to stay on the island. She, unlike Jack, is following up on her commitment to stay on the island until she could get everyone off.[/quote]
*************************************
i don’t really agree with her thinking it’s her destiny to stay on the island…
but i totally agree that she feels some sort of commitment to stay on the island and help everybody else get off of it first…probably in some attempt to make up for the fact (redeem herself) that she was an Other…
and i defintely think she’d be at least a little concerned/preoccupied with wondering what the consequences for her sister will be if she leaves the island…
then again, she seemed totally ready to get on the submarine and take off, before it blew up…poor girl, all her rides of the rock have blown up…;)
[quote comment="230408"][quote comment="230368"]
for most of this season, Locke has seemed like some little kid that Ben just toys with and manipulates, so I am really skeptical about the truth of anything that Ben says to Locke…;)[/quote]
Yep. It reminds me of the good old hatch days. Locke got stuck under the door and Ben started testing his “island faith” about pushing the button.[/quote]
*****************************
yeah, Ben was at his mind-game-manipulating best when he was a ‘prisoner’ of the survivors…the way he played Locke aginst Jack was super entertaining…he defintely seemed to be back at it this season…
Widmore is obviously involved on a very deep level in this show… but is there any real reason to think (or evidence to suggest) that Mr Paik is anything more than Sun’s mean old dad?? it just occured to me that i couldn’t think of anything that really ties him to the island or the search for it, or to anyone else attached to the island…
[quote comment="230412"]I’m thinking that she realizes her destiny may be to stay on the island. She, unlike Jack, is following up on her commitment to stay on the island until she could get everyone off.[/quote]
I am not sure it is fair to say that Jack didn’t follow up on his commitment. When he got on that helicopter, he had no reason to believe that Frank couldn’t come back to the island to get more people, not to mention he could have thought that everyone who had been on the beach was already ON the freighter.
: ) P
[quote comment="230416"]Widmore is obviously involved on a very deep level in this show… but is there any real reason to think (or evidence to suggest) that Mr Paik is anything more than Sun’s mean old dad?? it just occured to me that i couldn’t think of anything that really ties him to the island or the search for it, or to anyone else attached to the island…[/quote]
In one of Sun’s FB, Mr. Paik is overheard talking on the phone about the Widmore corporation. Also, it has only been speculated, no evidence yet I don’t think, that Widmore bought the fake plane from Paik Heavy Industries.
[quote comment="230419"][quote comment="230416"]Widmore is obviously involved on a very deep level in this show… but is there any real reason to think (or evidence to suggest) that Mr Paik is anything more than Sun’s mean old dad?? it just occured to me that i couldn’t think of anything that really ties him to the island or the search for it, or to anyone else attached to the island…[/quote]
In one of Sun’s FB, Mr. Paik is overheard talking on the phone about the Widmore corporation. Also, it has only been speculated, no evidence yet I don’t think, that Widmore bought the fake plane from Paik Heavy Industries.[/quote]
***********************************
hmm…okay, thanks!
[quote comment="230380"][quote comment="229390"]well just watched the episode, finally.and finally is where it should stay .
…me thinks they re dragging it out …..???[/quote]
——-
And on another post you asked if I’m new here…
What difference would that make?
Because I said the show is just “getting started” (I meant that figuratively).
But, no I’m not “new”…
But I wonder WHY you are here..since you seem unhappy about the show…and think it should have ended![/quote]
/////////////
im here because i find the blog more interesting than the shows, season four finale!and what does the shows just getting started[figuratively] mean?newbie!
have you watched lost since the begining?just curious?
newbie!
[quote comment="230413"][quote comment="230412"][quote comment="230407"][quote comment="230390"]
Juliet wants to get back to her sister. If while they’re in the real world, someone finds out Juliet’s sister and baby have died, her reason to leave the island diminishes.
: ) P[/quote]
That’s what I assumed also. That’s why I found it odd that she did not want to get on the raft when Faraday asked her. Was she afraid if she left her sister might get sick again?[/quote]
###############################
I’m thinking that she realizes her destiny may be to stay on the island. She, unlike Jack, is following up on her commitment to stay on the island until she could get everyone off.[/quote]
*************************************
i don’t really agree with her thinking it’s her destiny to stay on the island…
but i totally agree that she feels some sort of commitment to stay on the island and help everybody else get off of it first…probably in some attempt to make up for the fact (redeem herself) that she was an Other…
and i defintely think she’d be at least a little concerned/preoccupied with wondering what the consequences for her sister will be if she leaves the island…
then again, she seemed totally ready to get on the submarine and take off, before it blew up…poor girl, all her rides of the rock have blown up…;)[/quote]
////////////////////
i think she was secretly waitin for jack to return ,instead he flew overhead.
bye bye juliet??!
Time to kiss and make up! Wow!!
[quote comment="230452"][quote comment="230380"][/quote]
Leah, Bobola – how about you guys take this outside? Or at least get a room? LOL
Seriously, guys, there’s no need to be at each other’s throats.
I think we need to all subscribe to sandbox rules: make every effort to share, get along and no throwing of sand. *G*
: ) P
It has been mentioned by several people that they believe the “adoptive couple in LA” is Jack and Kate or Kate and Sawyer etc. I have always believed that the psychic used that excuse to get Claire on the plane knowing that it would never make it to LA thus forcing her to raise Aaron herself. He INSISTED that SHE had to raise him. I am still not convinced that there ever was a couple, it was a ruse. Only my opinion and I will probably be proven to be wrong.
[quote comment="230458"]Time to kiss and make up! Wow!![/quote]
GMTA, eh Trixanna?
: ) P
[quote comment="230460"]It has been mentioned by several people that they believe the “adoptive couple in LA” is Jack and Kate or Kate and Sawyer etc. I have always believed that the psychic used that excuse to get Claire on the plane knowing that it would never make it to LA thus forcing her to raise Aaron herself. He INSISTED that SHE had to raise him. I am still not convinced that there ever was a couple, it was a ruse. Only my opinion and I will probably be proven to be wrong.[/quote]
Or MAYBE someone (Widmore, Ben, Jacob) convinced the psychic to get Claire on the plane BECAUSE Kate and Sawyer were supposed to raise Aaron.
Not that I really can speculate about that, but just throwing ideas out there! LOL
: ) P
is richard alpert portuguese? anyone?
[quote comment="230464"]is richard alpert portuguese? anyone?[/quote]
*********************************
I think Richard Alpert is on EVERYONE’S wish list for more information. We really don’t know ANYTHING about his background. Why do you ask? A new theory?
[quote comment="230461"][quote comment="230458"]Time to kiss and make up! Wow!![/quote]
GMTA, eh Trixanna?
: ) P[/quote]
I am sure there were many with that same thought! I put it with more kindness than I did though. Great job!!!
PJ, I meant that YOU put it more kindly than I did! What a typo… YOU YOU YOU put it better!!!
trixanna,pj. the only thing in common we all have is lost . It does not make us all bum chums !debating is not about being nice ,its about different opinions ,i have no prejudices,you could be man woman or child, we could walk past one another in the street !we are from all walks and countries, a bit of playful banter never hurts ,it breaks up the monotony sometimes.. it wasnt an insult …..
it was the truth ..LOL.. only messin..no apologies
[quote comment="230467"][quote comment="230464"]is richard alpert portuguese? anyone?[/quote]
*********************************
I think Richard Alpert is on EVERYONE’S wish list for more information. We really don’t know ANYTHING about his background. Why do you ask? A new theory?[/quote]
//////////////////
the black rock interests me ,i think it holds answers to the islands beginings ,especially the pre dharma inhabitants
causing trouble is very trying, i grow weary,me bo bo’s.
g’night all, from across the pond.
[quote comment="230463"][quote comment="230460"]It has been mentioned by several people that they believe the “adoptive couple in LA” is Jack and Kate or Kate and Sawyer etc. I have always believed that the psychic used that excuse to get Claire on the plane knowing that it would never make it to LA thus forcing her to raise Aaron herself. He INSISTED that SHE had to raise him. I am still not convinced that there ever was a couple, it was a ruse. Only my opinion and I will probably be proven to be wrong.[/quote]
Or MAYBE someone (Widmore, Ben, Jacob) convinced the psychic to get Claire on the plane BECAUSE Kate and Sawyer were supposed to raise Aaron.
Not that I really can speculate about that, but just throwing ideas out there! LOL
: ) P[/quote]
———
That’s the way I understood it as. Someone “convincing” the psychic to get Claire onto the plane. If I remember correctly it seemed like he had a rather quick change of heart on the subject. “Your suppose to raise him”/ “your not suppose to raise him”.
Not to sue about who is supposed to raise him though. Didn’t he tell Ekko he was a fraud? That was all pretty close to the same real time too, I think.
Well, PJ and Lost4ever, you make an interesting argument. SOMEBODY knew how to get all the players on the plane. Why not use the man to pretend he is a psychic to get Claire on the plane? But even if he was a fraud, wouldn’t that still mean that there was never a couple in LA? If someone put him up to that lie, there was no couple. I don’t know, I am confused, tired, and LOST!!! I am going to bed!!!
[quote comment="230499"]Well, PJ and Lost4ever, you make an interesting argument. SOMEBODY knew how to get all the players on the plane. Why not use the man to pretend he is a psychic to get Claire on the plane? But even if he was a fraud, wouldn’t that still mean that there was never a couple in LA? If someone put him up to that lie, there was no couple. I don’t know, I am confused, tired, and LOST!!! I am going to bed!!![/quote]
I will be honest here and tell you that I don’t remember ANYTHING about the psychic! I am rewatching from the beginning, so hopefully that will help. All I am saying is that maybe the psychic was getting his information from elsewhere in some cases. Maybe he was told Eko wouldn’t believe him, so he needed to pretend to “come clean” about being a fraud. But I probably shouldn’t say more until I have seen the scenes in question!
LOL
: ) P
[quote comment="230499"]Well, PJ and Lost4ever, you make an interesting argument. SOMEBODY knew how to get all the players on the plane. Why not use the man to pretend he is a psychic to get Claire on the plane? But even if he was a fraud, wouldn’t that still mean that there was never a couple in LA? If someone put him up to that lie, there was no couple. I don’t know, I am confused, tired, and LOST!!! I am going to bed!!![/quote]
I guess what I said came out wrong. I was agreeing with you about the couple in LA. I don’t think there was one, IF the pyschic was a fraud as he claimed to Mr. Ekko. I think D & C mentioned something about it in one of their podcasts which confirmed he was a fraud, but I can’t honestly remember.
[quote comment="230526"][quote comment="230499"]Well, PJ and Lost4ever, you make an interesting argument. SOMEBODY knew how to get all the players on the plane. Why not use the man to pretend he is a psychic to get Claire on the plane? But even if he was a fraud, wouldn’t that still mean that there was never a couple in LA? If someone put him up to that lie, there was no couple. I don’t know, I am confused, tired, and LOST!!! I am going to bed!!![/quote]
I guess what I said came out wrong. I was agreeing with you about the couple in LA. I don’t think there was one, IF the pyschic was a fraud as he claimed to Mr. Ekko. I think D & C mentioned something about it in one of their podcasts which confirmed he was a fraud, but I can’t honestly remember.[/quote]
*******************************************
i thought the same thing…i always thought the psychic put Claire on the plane knowing it was never going to make it to LA, and then she wouldn’t be able to give the baby up…and i had the impression that he ‘admitted’ to being a fake because someone or something freaked him out…it had only recently occured to me that maybe he was someone’s ‘payroll’ and really was a fake…and now, who knows, because it sure would appear that Kate and someone are raising him…
[quote comment="230410"]
Weren’t Sayid & Jin on a boat circling the island at the time of Desmond turning the key? It seems they would have ended up just floating around.
IMO, not everything that happens on the show has a reason, and I’m almost certain that a great deal of things will be attributed to island mythos. I think there are a lot of theatrics and red herrings built into the show.
That stated, for me:
Purple sky =theatrics/island mythos.
Whispers/island mythos (sorry Hammer).
Smoke Monster/ island mythos…psych your mind!…I think that one will be explained.
Black & white stones/island mythos.
Adam & Eve…dare I say it…island mythos.
The identity of the Economist…theatrics.
Psychic of Claire…theatrics.
Daniel’s Constant…theatrics.
Magic Box that Ben spoke of that brought anything you wanted (or whatever he said)…theatrics (do they think we’ll forget about that?)
that’s all I got for now.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Rebuttle:
The boat Sayid and Jin were circling the island on was plenty close enough to move with the island since the second island, Faraday’s raft, and the freighter wreckage most likley all moved when Ben moved the island.
They don’t expect us to forget about the box since they had Locke bring it back up in the finale.
The rest of your list is up for grabs, but I sincerely doubt that the whispers will be ignored since they keep using them.
[quote comment="230698"][quote comment="230410"]
Weren’t Sayid & Jin on a boat circling the island at the time of Desmond turning the key? It seems they would have ended up just floating around.
IMO, not everything that happens on the show has a reason, and I’m almost certain that a great deal of things will be attributed to island mythos. I think there are a lot of theatrics and red herrings built into the show.
That stated, for me:
Purple sky =theatrics/island mythos.
Whispers/island mythos (sorry Hammer).
Smoke Monster/ island mythos…psych your mind!…I think that one will be explained.
Black & white stones/island mythos.
Adam & Eve…dare I say it…island mythos.
The identity of the Economist…theatrics.
Psychic of Claire…theatrics.
Daniel’s Constant…theatrics.
Magic Box that Ben spoke of that brought anything you wanted (or whatever he said)…theatrics (do they think we’ll forget about that?)
that’s all I got for now.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Rebuttle:
The boat Sayid and Jin were circling the island on was plenty close enough to move with the island since the second island, Faraday’s raft, and the freighter wreckage most likley all moved when Ben moved the island.
They don’t expect us to forget about the box since they had Locke bring it back up in the finale.
The rest of your list is up for grabs, but I sincerely doubt that the whispers will be ignored since they keep using them.
[/quote]
————–
TY for all the responses to my brother’s idea about the island moving when Des turned the key. As I stated, I am not sure what to make of it, that’s why I threw it out there.
I agree with Hammer, the boat in Season 2 was probably even closer than Faraday and his raft. We don’t know yet what happened to that, but I assume it moved with the island.
RGS, what does that exactly mean “island mythos”? And are you suggesting those topics will not be answered? If so, I would have to disagree on the Adam and Eve being island mythos.
[quote comment="230698"][quote comment="230410"]
Weren’t Sayid & Jin on a boat circling the island at the time of Desmond turning the key? It seems they would have ended up just floating around.
IMO, not everything that happens on the show has a reason, and I’m almost certain that a great deal of things will be attributed to island mythos. I think there are a lot of theatrics and red herrings built into the show.
That stated, for me:
Purple sky =theatrics/island mythos.
Whispers/island mythos (sorry Hammer).
Smoke Monster/ island mythos…psych your mind!…I think that one will be explained.
Black & white stones/island mythos.
Adam & Eve…dare I say it…island mythos.
The identity of the Economist…theatrics.
Psychic of Claire…theatrics.
Daniel’s Constant…theatrics.
Magic Box that Ben spoke of that brought anything you wanted (or whatever he said)…theatrics (do they think we’ll forget about that?)
that’s all I got for now.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Rebuttle:
The boat Sayid and Jin were circling the island on was plenty close enough to move with the island since the second island, Faraday’s raft, and the freighter wreckage most likley all moved when Ben moved the island.
They don’t expect us to forget about the box since they had Locke bring it back up in the finale.
The rest of your list is up for grabs, but I sincerely doubt that the whispers will be ignored since they keep using them.
[/quote]
**************************************
i also thought that D&C said that they showed us Adam and Eve early on in the show so that later, people woud know that they had it ‘all planned out’ from the beginning and no one could say that they made it up as they went along…so i definitely think Adam and Eve will be explained at some point…probably in the last scene of the last episode in season six…;)
ps-i SWEAR i heard that in a podcast…if anyone knows which one, can they refresh my memory please?
[quote comment="230698"][quote comment="230410"]
Weren’t Sayid & Jin on a boat circling the island at the time of Desmond turning the key? It seems they would have ended up just floating around.
IMO, not everything that happens on the show has a reason, and I’m almost certain that a great deal of things will be attributed to island mythos. I think there are a lot of theatrics and red herrings built into the show.
That stated, for me:
Purple sky =theatrics/island mythos.
Whispers/island mythos (sorry Hammer).
Smoke Monster/ island mythos…psych your mind!…I think that one will be explained.
Black & white stones/island mythos.
Adam & Eve…dare I say it…island mythos.
The identity of the Economist…theatrics.
Psychic of Claire…theatrics.
Daniel’s Constant…theatrics.
Magic Box that Ben spoke of that brought anything you wanted (or whatever he said)…theatrics (do they think we’ll forget about that?)
that’s all I got for now.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Rebuttle:
The boat Sayid and Jin were circling the island on was plenty close enough to move with the island since the second island, Faraday’s raft, and the freighter wreckage most likley all moved when Ben moved the island.
They don’t expect us to forget about the box since they had Locke bring it back up in the finale.
The rest of your list is up for grabs, but I sincerely doubt that the whispers will be ignored since they keep using them.
[/quote]
*****************************
Also, D&C said early on that A&E would prove that they had a plan all along for the show. They will come back up again eventually.
[quote comment="230727"][quote comment="230698"][quote comment="230410"]
Weren’t Sayid & Jin on a boat circling the island at the time of Desmond turning the key? It seems they would have ended up just floating around.
IMO, not everything that happens on the show has a reason, and I’m almost certain that a great deal of things will be attributed to island mythos. I think there are a lot of theatrics and red herrings built into the show.
That stated, for me:
Purple sky =theatrics/island mythos.
Whispers/island mythos (sorry Hammer).
Smoke Monster/ island mythos…psych your mind!…I think that one will be explained.
Black & white stones/island mythos.
Adam & Eve…dare I say it…island mythos.
The identity of the Economist…theatrics.
Psychic of Claire…theatrics.
Daniel’s Constant…theatrics.
Magic Box that Ben spoke of that brought anything you wanted (or whatever he said)…theatrics (do they think we’ll forget about that?)
that’s all I got for now.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Rebuttle:
The boat Sayid and Jin were circling the island on was plenty close enough to move with the island since the second island, Faraday’s raft, and the freighter wreckage most likley all moved when Ben moved the island.
They don’t expect us to forget about the box since they had Locke bring it back up in the finale.
The rest of your list is up for grabs, but I sincerely doubt that the whispers will be ignored since they keep using them.
[/quote]
**************************************
i also thought that D&C said that they showed us Adam and Eve early on in the show so that later, people woud know that they had it ‘all planned out’ from the beginning and no one could say that they made it up as they went along…so i definitely think Adam and Eve will be explained at some point…probably in the last scene of the last episode in season six…;)
ps-i SWEAR i heard that in a podcast…if anyone knows which one, can they refresh my memory please?
[/quote]
***************************
here we are; quote from an interview with D&C:
“What is the meaning or significance of the two skeletons that Jack and Kate found in the cave of season 1?
CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the island. We don’t want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in [the Feb. 7 episode], one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.
LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living — or, I guess, slowly decomposing — proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, ”That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.”
[quote comment="230728"][quote comment="230698"][quote comment="230410"]
Weren’t Sayid & Jin on a boat circling the island at the time of Desmond turning the key? It seems they would have ended up just floating around.
IMO, not everything that happens on the show has a reason, and I’m almost certain that a great deal of things will be attributed to island mythos. I think there are a lot of theatrics and red herrings built into the show.
That stated, for me:
Purple sky =theatrics/island mythos.
Whispers/island mythos (sorry Hammer).
Smoke Monster/ island mythos…psych your mind!…I think that one will be explained.
Black & white stones/island mythos.
Adam & Eve…dare I say it…island mythos.
The identity of the Economist…theatrics.
Psychic of Claire…theatrics.
Daniel’s Constant…theatrics.
Magic Box that Ben spoke of that brought anything you wanted (or whatever he said)…theatrics (do they think we’ll forget about that?)
that’s all I got for now.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Rebuttle:
The boat Sayid and Jin were circling the island on was plenty close enough to move with the island since the second island, Faraday’s raft, and the freighter wreckage most likley all moved when Ben moved the island.
They don’t expect us to forget about the box since they had Locke bring it back up in the finale.
The rest of your list is up for grabs, but I sincerely doubt that the whispers will be ignored since they keep using them.
[/quote]
*****************************
Also, D&C said early on that A&E would prove that they had a plan all along for the show. They will come back up again eventually.[/quote]
****************************
seems quite a few of us are on the same page today…;)
Rita, ESB….great minds think alike.
[quote comment="230734"]Rita, ESB….great minds think alike.
[/quote]
********************************
true that…;) haha, and i’m always stoked when i remember things correctly…
i wanted to ask again because no one replied when i asked the first time, but did any of you see the Hurley-bird in the finale?
[quote comment="230732"]here we are; quote from an interview with D&C:
“What is the meaning or significance of the two skeletons that Jack and Kate found in the cave of season 1?
CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the island. We don’t want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in [the Feb. 7 episode], one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.
LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living — or, I guess, slowly decomposing — proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, ”That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.”[/quote]
Does anyone know the anagram they refer to?
And no, I didn’t hear a Hurley-bird.
And no, I still haven’t heard anything from Octagon or DHARMA.
: ) P
[quote comment="230748"]
Does anyone know the anagram they refer to?
And no, I didn’t hear a Hurley-bird.
And no, I still haven’t heard anything from Octagon or DHARMA.
: ) P[/quote]
I think that was around the time Mittelos was introduced.
I didn’t respond to the Hurley bird question because I didn’t see it in the episode. Those Jwood recaps are a bit too long and over-sophisticated for my liking.
They might be tracking you PJ, too see if your Dharma material.
Wow, things are getting a little hostile around here! I have been trying to post forever now and each time I get on here there’s like 100 new posts to read!!
Anyway, re-watched last night and found a few questions…
1. Why did Walt want to come see Hurley? I know he had questions after his visit with Locke, but why would he choose to see Hurley? And was Locke dangerous, is that why Walt’s g-ma asked if Hurley was dangerous or crazy or whatever she said?
2. Locke told Jack that they would have to lie to protect the island…but the conversation between Hurley and Walt made it seem like Locke was saying they shouldn’t be lying…is he trying to get them back on the island and trying to make them realize they shouldn’t be living a lie or is he threatening to blow their cover and expose them? What bad things happen on the island after Jack leaves?
3. Did anyone else notice the weird look between Kate and Sayid after the Keamy fight?
And I’ll throw my two cents in re: A&E…since the clue was LOST TIME and we just had the island moved and we know that when Ben shows up in the desert it’s sometime in 2005 (ok, that can be speculation) would it be safe to say that that is the time lost and perhaps Adam and Eve were on the island when it was moved?
Love the debating…ya’ll are funny to read!! Glad to be here, be nice please!
[quote comment="230754"]
Anyway, re-watched last night and found a few questions…
1. Why did Walt want to come see Hurley? I know he had questions after his visit with Locke, but why would he choose to see Hurley? And was Locke dangerous, is that why Walt’s g-ma asked if Hurley was dangerous or crazy or whatever she said?
[/quote]
**********************************
I think it was more protecting Walt because they were visiting in a mental hospital. Pretty freaky, they lock you in. She was just making sure Hurley was safe for Walt to visit. Walt probably wanted to visit Hurley (after Locke/Bentham came to him) because he has questions about his dad. I imagine that when Locke saw Walt and mentioned Michael, Walt was still mad and wouldn’t listen. Then, later, he wished he had listened and felt that Hurley was the most likely to be willing to talk with him and help him, tell him what happened. This is how kids act!
Oh yeah I had forgotten all about that Podcast. Good catch. I started rollin with my idea and couldn’t stop.
Hammer regarding the whispers. The reason I think it won’t be explained (island mythos D&c term not mine) is because none of the characters ever really mention hearing the Whispers, and no one has asked that question to Ben, whereas for the other stuff they do ask.
Though I think Faraday and co. got swept up with the island move, it is a little bit of a guess on our part that their lil boat never made it back in time to get swept up.
Ok more island mythos, unexplained stuff:
Henry Gale story
Nth degree of separation of characters (except Jack and Claire of course, and any that have already been revealed Sawyer, Christian, Jack)
That one I really don’t think they will be able to explain, all these random folks being gathered up for a specific plane ride…I would be interested to hear that explanation. Who am I fooling, I want to hear any damn explanation, lol.
Why the island won’t let one commit suicide
How Harper disappeared when confronting Juliet
The numbers
Ash stuff around Jacob’s cabin. (ok I’m starting to reach, but THAT one really bothers me!)
by boat making it back on time, to get physically swept up is what I meant.
[quote comment="230760"]
Hammer regarding the whispers. The reason I think it won’t be explained (island mythos D&c term not mine) is because none of the characters ever really mention hearing the Whispers, and no one has asked that question to Ben, whereas for the other stuff they do ask.
[/quote]
**************************
RGS, I know you addressed this to Hammer, but I think the whispers question WILL be answered. The only one I can think of who specifically MENTIONED hearing them was Rousseau, when she first met Sayid (Season 1), she told him she had never seen the “others”, but she heard them, they “whisper”. However, everyone RESPONDS to the whispers when they hear them. Eventually, I expect someone to address them out loud – (“what the heck ARE these whispers we keep hearing anyway???”).
[quote comment="230764"][quote comment="230760"]
Hammer regarding the whispers. The reason I think it won’t be explained (island mythos D&c term not mine) is because none of the characters ever really mention hearing the Whispers, and no one has asked that question to Ben, whereas for the other stuff they do ask.
[/quote]
**************************
RGS, I know you addressed this to Hammer, but I think the whispers question WILL be answered. The only one I can think of who specifically MENTIONED hearing them was Rousseau, when she first met Sayid (Season 1), she told him she had never seen the “others”, but she heard them, they “whisper”. However, everyone RESPONDS to the whispers when they hear them. Eventually, I expect someone to address them out loud – (“what the heck ARE these whispers we keep hearing anyway???”).[/quote]
********************************
Maybe they’ll just show us the whisperers whispering, and we will figure it out ourselves.
[quote comment="230754"]Wow, things are getting a little hostile around here! I have been trying to post forever now and each time I get on here there’s like 100 new posts to read!!
Anyway, re-watched last night and found a few questions…
1. Why did Walt want to come see Hurley? I know he had questions after his visit with Locke, but why would he choose to see Hurley? And was Locke dangerous, is that why Walt’s g-ma asked if Hurley was dangerous or crazy or whatever she said?
[/quote]
I would think Hurley would make the most sense. Sun is in Korea; Sayid could be anywhere; Kate, Jack never connected much to Walt; Aaron is a baby.
Walt probably wondered why the O6 were lying and why none of them had bothered to come see him. Locke told him that they were lying to protect the Island, and that they all needed to come back and probably said some proof- something Walt would understand. Maybe now that Locke is dead it will be Walt’s job to convince the O6 to go back!
[quote comment="230766"][quote comment="230754"]Wow, things are getting a little hostile around here! I have been trying to post forever now and each time I get on here there’s like 100 new posts to read!!
Anyway, re-watched last night and found a few questions…
1. Why did Walt want to come see Hurley? I know he had questions after his visit with Locke, but why would he choose to see Hurley? And was Locke dangerous, is that why Walt’s g-ma asked if Hurley was dangerous or crazy or whatever she said?
[/quote]
I would think Hurley would make the most sense. Sun is in Korea; Sayid could be anywhere; Kate, Jack never connected much to Walt; Aaron is a baby.
Walt probably wondered why the O6 were lying and why none of them had bothered to come see him. Locke told him that they were lying to protect the Island, and that they all needed to come back and probably said some proof- something Walt would understand. Maybe now that Locke is dead it will be Walt’s job to convince the O6 to go back![/quote]
********************
I know I know, I think I’m making things more complicated than they should be…just seems weird that his g-ma would fly him all the way across the country to see a guy in a mental hospital…maybe she’s desperate for him to act normal and get better!
[quote comment="230760"]
Hammer regarding the whispers. The reason I think it won’t be explained (island mythos D&c term not mine) is because none of the characters ever really mention hearing the Whispers, and no one has asked that question to Ben, whereas for the other stuff they do ask.
[/quote]I get you RGS, just don’t agree on that one. I think they would have just let it go if it was something that was written in to kill time because there wasn’t an end date (Nikki/Paulo). I think most of the stuff you pointed out has meaning to the mythology and will likely be explained or loosely explained like Rita said by showing us.
While we are talkin’ whisperers (sort of), I’ve been wondering about Hugo playing chess with Eko. When Smokey gave Eko the heave-ho, we were show Eko and Yemi wandering off to eternity together……why is he back playing chess?
[quote comment="230760"] I want to hear any damn explanation, lol.
Why the island won’t let one commit suicide.[/quote]
I’ll take any explanation also on any of the numerous things you mentioned. But I think this one, in a sense, has been answered.
[quote comment="230789"]While we are talkin’ whisperers (sort of), I’ve been wondering about Hugo playing chess with Eko. When Smokey gave Eko the heave-ho, we were show Eko and Yemi wandering off to eternity together……why is he back playing chess?[/quote]
JK…
In their latest podcast thay said that was a shout out to PJSander, implying Charlie was dead.
That’s a good point. Was that Mr. Ekko or a manifestation of the island?
[quote comment="230797"][quote comment="230760"] I want to hear any damn explanation, lol.
Why the island won’t let one commit suicide.[/quote]
I’ll take any explanation also on any of the numerous things you mentioned. But I think this one, in a sense, has been answered.[/quote]
Agreed, Michael needed to fulfill his “requirements” and so does Jack.
But here’s a question that I am sure was asked before: Was Michael’s life being held hostage by island because he killed folks to free the island’s keeper? Was he just supposed to open the door and let him out, but since he panicked and killed some folks had to redeem himself?
Now, what did Jack do that was so horrible that his life is being held hostage?
Or……..is the island just holding their lives hostage because their destiny is to serve the island before they die?
[quote comment="230800"][quote comment="230789"]While we are talkin’ whisperers (sort of), I’ve been wondering about Hugo playing chess with Eko. When Smokey gave Eko the heave-ho, we were show Eko and Yemi wandering off to eternity together……why is he back playing chess?[/quote]
JK…
In their latest podcast thay said that was a shout out to PJSander, implying Charlie was dead.
That’s a good point. Was that Mr. Ekko or a manifestation of the island?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ah ha…you are picking up what I am laying down….do you hear the whispers?
Hammer- In response to post #730
Really I think the show is trying to display Hurley’s affinity for the dead, not really alter Eko’s eternity. Maybe he will go back to the island and be used in a Miles type fashion or go against Miles or be able to dispute something that Miles says.
[quote comment="230809"]Hammer- In response to post #730
Really I think the show is trying to display Hurley’s affinity for the dead, not really alter Eko’s eternity. Maybe he will go back to the island and be used in a Miles type fashion or go against Miles or be able to dispute something that Miles says.[/quote]
++++++++++++
Very possible. If so, he’s in the refining stages because he isn’t seeing his love Libby. So it seems that they have to come to him, like all manifestations and apparitions (whisperers) do for the folks on the island. Now for Hugo and Jack they are happening off the island.
I do feel the show will finally give Hurley his “Libby moment” from the afterlife at some point. Maybe she will visit him on a regular basis. Hugo going back to the island would naturally re-trigger all his Libby stuff and maybe be a platform for her character/spirit to re-surface.
Well we’ve now had a Sayid/Nadia reunion, a Des/Penny reunion, a Sawyer/Kate/Jack thing (again)…so maybe that means we will get a Hurley/Libby moment, but that also leaves the door open for a Charlie/Claire moment (although that might be a little weird)…and maybe a Jin/Sun moment but in the latter three combinations, at least one party is presumed dead so I’m not sure how that would play out. I could see it happening most easily with Hurley though since he’s already seeing dead people
[quote comment="230789"]While we are talkin’ whisperers (sort of), I’ve been wondering about Hugo playing chess with Eko. When Smokey gave Eko the heave-ho, we were show Eko and Yemi wandering off to eternity together……why is he back playing chess?[/quote]
We didn’t see Eko, so who knows if Hurley really did think he was playing with him? Maybe that was him just saying something creepy because Sayid was there.
: ) P
[quote comment="230803"][quote comment="230800"][quote comment="230789"]While we are talkin’ whisperers (sort of), I’ve been wondering about Hugo playing chess with Eko. When Smokey gave Eko the heave-ho, we were show Eko and Yemi wandering off to eternity together……why is he back playing chess?[/quote]
JK…
In their latest podcast thay said that was a shout out to PJSander, implying Charlie was dead.
That’s a good point. Was that Mr. Ekko or a manifestation of the island?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ah ha…you are picking up what I am laying down….do you hear the whispers?[/quote]
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
I didn’t hear whispers in Hurley’s room. Did you?
Whether or not Charlie is really dead, whenever a character is seen by another character, *WE* have seen it, too. WE didn’t see Eko, so I am not sure Hurley saw Eko REALLY. (I still maintain that Hurley only THINKS he is crazy because he THINKS he is seeing dead people.)
My suspicion is that Hurley said Eko’s name more because TPTB want us to remember the character, just as Locke mentioned the “magic box” and Juliet mentioned the kidnapped O815 kids.
: ) P
[quote comment="230749"][quote comment="230748"]
Does anyone know the anagram they refer to?
And no, I didn’t hear a Hurley-bird.
And no, I still haven’t heard anything from Octagon or DHARMA.
: ) P[/quote]
I think that was around the time Mittelos was introduced.
I didn’t respond to the Hurley bird question because I didn’t see it in the episode. Those Jwood recaps are a bit too long and over-sophisticated for my liking.
They might be tracking you PJ, too see if your Dharma material.[/quote]
**************************************
yeah, i just watched it again on-line and didn’t see or hear any Hurley-bird either, but thanks for the response…;)
[quote comment="230822"][quote comment="230803"][quote comment="230800"][quote comment="230789"]While we are talkin’ whisperers (sort of), I’ve been wondering about Hugo playing chess with Eko. When Smokey gave Eko the heave-ho, we were show Eko and Yemi wandering off to eternity together……why is he back playing chess?[/quote]
JK…
In their latest podcast thay said that was a shout out to PJSander, implying Charlie was dead.
That’s a good point. Was that Mr. Ekko or a manifestation of the island?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ah ha…you are picking up what I am laying down….do you hear the whispers?[/quote]
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
I didn’t hear whispers in Hurley’s room. Did you?
Whether or not Charlie is really dead, whenever a character is seen by another character, *WE* have seen it, too. WE didn’t see Eko, so I am not sure Hurley saw Eko REALLY. (I still maintain that Hurley only THINKS he is crazy because he THINKS he is seeing dead people.)
My suspicion is that Hurley said Eko’s name more because TPTB want us to remember the character, just as Locke mentioned the “magic box” and Juliet mentioned the kidnapped O815 kids.
: ) P[/quote]
************************************
as much as i believe almost everything that happens on this show happens for a reason…AND as much as i DIG the Eko character…i honestly think the writers just had Hurley say that because it was a cool and freaky thing for him to say at that moment…and it probably made Sayid stop to consider the state of Hurley’s mental health…
but hey, i’m probably wrong…;)
1) Seeing the freighter just 2 miles off-shore just before the ‘vanishing’ says ALOT about the collapsing phenomena that protects the island.
2) Frozen or Unfrozen Donkey Wheel says tons about who can operate it… that would be a donkey OR a jack@$$… like Ben.
3) The finale tells us – the OA6 are last seasons’ story – look forward to the last two seasons, because… what we just told you – is nowhere near the truth!
4) No Hurley bird in the S4 or S3 finale… just S1 & S2… probably not a key to the saga.
5) Nadia, Mrs Littleton & CEO Sun are the key to the next two years.
[quote comment="230802"][quote comment="230797"][quote comment="230760"] I want to hear any damn explanation, lol.
Why the island won’t let one commit suicide.[/quote]
I’ll take any explanation also on any of the numerous things you mentioned. But I think this one, in a sense, has been answered.[/quote]
Agreed, Michael needed to fulfill his “requirements” and so does Jack.
But here’s a question that I am sure was asked before: Was Michael’s life being held hostage by island because he killed folks to free the island’s keeper? Was he just supposed to open the door and let him out, but since he panicked and killed some folks had to redeem himself?
Now, what did Jack do that was so horrible that his life is being held hostage?
Or……..is the island just holding their lives hostage because their destiny is to serve the island before they die?[/quote]
^^^^^^^^
Or dare I type it, they are in some kind of purgatory…despite D&C denying that!
I’m thinking there will be loose explanations galore. Like for instance in Mike’s death by freightor bomb, we would guess that the island determined that his purpose was served and then he could die for whatever loose explanation we come up with.
The messenger was Christian. His purpose was to allow the O6 to leave the island? But the island actually really wants them to stay right?
So the rebuttal may be, no, technically the island wants one to CHOOSE to stay. Well if the island wants one to choose to stay, does tormenting someone until they finally acquiescence (man I had to look up that spelling, sure doesn’t sound like how its spelled…akwee-sense…whatever) qualify as choosing? “The beatings will continue until morale improves.”
Yeah I’m leaning towards Rita’s thought about letting us figure out what the whispers mean, though I don’t think they are a time killer, I think it is theatrics…to signify something weird’s happening brace yourself viewer.
“Fickle Bitch” = Island.
The island will do what it needs to do to survive.
Mess you up – YES,
Make you want to commit suicide – YES,
Prevent you from doing so – YES,
Run, hide, move – YES,
Lie to you AND Tell you the incomprehensible truth in the same breath – YES,
Present you with terrible apparitions AND sentient absolutes – YES.
Science OR Faith? No matter – the island does what its’ fickle self wants to do.
[quote comment="230852"]“Fickle Bitch” = Island.
The island will do what it needs to do to survive.
Mess you up – YES,
Make you want to commit suicide – YES,
Prevent you from doing so – YES,
Run, hide, move – YES,
Lie to you AND Tell you the incomprehensible truth in the same breath – YES,
Present you with terrible apparitions AND sentient absolutes – YES.
Science OR Faith? No matter – the island does what its’ fickle self wants to do.[/quote]
DocH, welcome back! We thought you’d disappeared with the island! We miss you over at the small island, too. Come on back, k?
: ) P
Ok less than 45 minutes to the new episode! Right?
OH and my spelling isn’t as bad as I thought, when I googled it the first listing was acquiescence and in my rush I didn’t look at acquiesce which is what I meant to type…blame it on the island.
[quote comment="230863"]Ok less than 45 minutes to the new episode! Right?[/quote]
LOL.
I am surprisingly, handling today quite well. Might be because I have watched the first four hours of Season One already this week *bg*.
LAA meeting anyone?
: ) P
Hey PJ… I am most definately up for an LA meeting!!!
RGS… you are a big bully!!! I got a little excited thinking there was an episode I wasn’t aware of. Pout, Pout! How are we ever going to survive until January?
Did anyone read the article on tvguide.com about Michael’s departure? He sure sounded bitter, I was starting to like him again until I read the article. Shame on you Harry! (That is his real name, right?)
I wonder if Locke moved the island again and then left. He can’t get back…alive. He kills himself knowing the other losties will have to take his body back to the island where he’ll be resurrected.
I’ve listened to some pod casts and heard jokes made about the “Zombie Season”. After contemplating, comparing, and contrasting the major differences of Locke, Bentham, and Hume, I ended up branching out into metaphysics and existentialism. I found a different kind of philosophy worth taking a look at.
Anyhoo….pretty interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
Maybe we are in for a “Zombie Season”!
how about this sudden brain storm that came to me in a blinding purple flash…..wait for it…What if locke actually died when his father pushed him out of the window???and thats the locke in the coffin.the “other locke “is still the leader of the pack in fantasy island.it seems wierd that he should pick the same method of sucide as his dad tried to kill him with.
it seems to me that the reason you cant die in the real world, because your dead on the island already,not every one but those who s life issues have been resolved before they ve past.ie.boon saw life for what it was finally instead of living in a fantasy world as a spoilt wedding planner.dead
.shannon finally got the love she craved for and someone to believe her .dead
.eko found his brothers resting place
.dead.
charlie became the’ true hero ‘nadia called him.dead
.and locke finally became the adventurer and go getter he d dreamed of.dead and reauseau finally found her long lost daughter.dead
.if you died before the crash, your alive on the island,if you die on the island your alive in the real world.
some losties died in the crash
ie .clare but had to have the baby first.jin died but not before buying some time for sun.micheal redeemed himself as in ‘you can go now’for killig ana lucia and libby in the pursuit of getting walt back…can anyone catch my drift??
i think they all have to perform a selfless act
if they want to move on ,out of the limbo they re trapped in
I think the oa6 really are the only survivors
of flight 815.And i think adam and eve are the couple that got bitten by a spider [i forget thier names]and were buried alive.
i think you’ve had too much to drink lol
[quote comment="230873"]I’ve listened to some pod casts and heard jokes made about the “Zombie Season”. After contemplating, comparing, and contrasting the major differences of Locke, Bentham, and Hume, I ended up branching out into metaphysics and existentialism. I found a different kind of philosophy worth taking a look at.
Anyhoo….pretty interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
Maybe we are in for a “Zombie Season”![/quote]
You might be on to something there. They sure do “joke” ALOT in thode podcasts. It’s hard to tell when they are serious or not sometimes. You found a great “read”.
[quote comment="230869"]Did anyone read the article on tvguide.com about Michael’s departure? He sure sounded bitter, I was starting to like him again until I read the article. Shame on you Harry! (That is his real name, right?)[/quote]
I read it, but he has since “clarified” those statements. He sounded very disgruntled. He thought his come back meant more to the show. It might have if there were 2 more episodes…but it was definitely his time.
[quote comment="230852"]“Fickle Bitch” = Island.
The island will do what it needs to do to survive.
Mess you up – YES,
Make you want to commit suicide – YES,
Prevent you from doing so – YES,
Run, hide, move – YES,
Lie to you AND Tell you the incomprehensible truth in the same breath – YES,
Present you with terrible apparitions AND sentient absolutes – YES.
Science OR Faith? No matter – the island does what its’ fickle self wants to do.[/quote]
Are you trying to say the ISLAND has something to do with it? Both islands missed you.
[quote comment="230911"]how about this sudden brain storm that came to me in a blinding purple flash…..wait for it…[/quote]
You could be on to something Leah, but there are some questions I have.
[quote comment="230911"]What if locke actually died when his father pushed him out of the window???and thats the locke in the coffin.the “other locke “is still the leader of the pack in fantasy island.it seems wierd that he should pick the same method of sucide as his dad tried to kill him with.[/quote]
Where did anyone say *how* Locke tried to kill himself. Sayid says that “they” said it was suicide, but I do not remember anyone talking about *how* Locke died.
[quote comment="230911"]
charlie became the’ true hero ‘nadia called him.dead[/quote]
Huh? I get the part about Charlie being a hero, but what do you mean about Nadia calling?
[quote comment="230916"]I think the oa6 really are the only survivors
of flight 815.And i think adam and eve are the couple that got bitten by a spider [i forget thier names]and were buried alive.[/quote]
Nikki and Paulo. Hmmm. While I don’t think we have seen the last of Nikki and Paulo (I don’t really buy the producers killing them off just because the fans didn’t like their story line), I am not ready to agree that they are A&E.
: ) P
[quote comment="231027"][quote comment="230911"]how about this sudden brain storm that came to me in a blinding purple flash…..wait for it…[/quote]
You could be on to something Leah, but there are some questions I have.
[quote comment="230911"]What if locke actually died when his father pushed him out of the window???and thats the locke in the coffin.the “other locke “is still the leader of the pack in fantasy island.it seems wierd that he should pick the same method of sucide as his dad tried to kill him with.[/quote]
Where did anyone say *how* Locke tried to kill himself. Sayid says that “they” said it was suicide, but I do not remember anyone talking about *how* Locke died.
[quote comment="230911"]
charlie became the’ true hero ‘nadia called him.dead[/quote]
Huh? I get the part about Charlie being a hero, but what do you mean about Nadia calling?
[quote comment="230916"]I think the oa6 really are the only survivors
of flight 815.And i think adam and eve are the couple that got bitten by a spider [i forget thier names]and were buried alive.[/quote]
Nikki and Paulo. Hmmm. While I don’t think we have seen the last of Nikki and Paulo (I don’t really buy the producers killing them off just because the fans didn’t like their story line), I am not ready to agree that they are A&E.
: ) P[/quote]
****
Nadia called Charlie a hero when he saved her from being mugged in England.
leah wrote:
charlie became the’ true hero ‘nadia called him.dead
Huh? I get the part about Charlie being a hero, but what do you mean about Nadia calling
****
Nadia called Charlie a hero when he saved her from being mugged in the alley in England.
If Desmond did move the island (in space or in time) when he turned the fail-safe key, I was trying to determine what the similarities are between the Swan and the Orchid. Both are are very deep in the ground and have some sort of strong magnetic force down there. Any other thoughts on this?
[quote comment="230852"]“Fickle Bitch” = Island.
The island will do what it needs to do to survive.
Mess you up – YES,
Make you want to commit suicide – YES,
Prevent you from doing so – YES,
Run, hide, move – YES,
Lie to you AND Tell you the incomprehensible truth in the same breath – YES,
Present you with terrible apparitions AND sentient absolutes – YES.
Science OR Faith? No matter – the island does what its’ fickle self wants to do.[/quote]
********************************
this post reminds me of what i was saying a few days ago…about the whole Ben/Widmore-good/bad thing…yes, Ben is protecting the island, but who says that is a good thing or the island should be protected?? i mean the island is a pretty dark place and God help you if it doesn’t have a use for you or is done with you…
also, i don’t know that being ‘redeemed’ is the key to dying on the island…i think it’s more just if the island is done with you or needed you in the first place…i mean id didn’t see any ‘redemption’ with Nikki and Paulo…not SUPER obvious with Eko or Shannon either…am i overlookiing something regarding the ‘redemption theory’?
by the way, after watching the island disappear again yesterday, i think the island is a flying saucer/alien spacecraft with a REALLY good disguise, haha
[quote comment="231072"]Nadia called Charlie a hero when he saved her from being mugged in the alley in England.[/quote]
Thank you!
: ) P
Boone, Shannon, Charlie – all were interested in pursuing other (non-LOST) activities and departed the show on cue.
Paulo & Nikki were discarded due to fan disinterest.
Michael seems to be gone for good now.
Apparently it is our (fan) fault… as our blood-lust is being pandered to. I read the interview. http://www.tvguide.com/news/lost-harold-perrineau/080530-03 . . . Thanks Trixi..
[quote comment="231109"]Boone, Shannon, Charlie – all were interested in pursuing other (non-LOST) activities and departed the show on cue.[/quote]
Do you mean the ACTORS were interested in pursuing other roles? Because from what I read, Ian Somerhalder and Maggie Grace were both shocked and disappointed when their characters were killed. Both have gone on to do other things, but I don’t remember them interested in leaving LOST before it happened.
As for Dominic Monaghan, maybe he was interested in leaving, though I don’t remember anything about that. He didn’t pitch a fit about his character’s demise, but I remember him saying he trusted the producers to do what was necessary to move the story forward.
As for Nikki and Paulo, well that remains to be seen. D&C claim that they brought those characters forward in an effort to flush out some more survivors in response to fans’ requests to do so. They claim that they killed them off for the same reason. I am just not sure I believe that. If Nikki and Paulo were a “mistake” then why would we be shown “Expose” on television in Ji Yeon? Like the magic box and the O815 children, I think we are being reminded of these things for a reason.
: ) P
[quote comment="231109"]Boone, Shannon, Charlie – all were interested in pursuing other (non-LOST) activities and departed the show on cue.
Paulo & Nikki were discarded due to fan disinterest.
Michael seems to be gone for good now.
Apparently it is our (fan) fault… as our blood-lust is being pandered to. I read the interview. http://www.tvguide.com/news/lost-harold-perrineau/080530-03 . . . Thanks Trixi..[/quote]
**************************************
not sure about Maggie Grace, but I had heard that both Ian Somerhalder and Dominic Monaghan were pretty upset about being written off of Lost…not too surprising when you think about the fact that Dominic was dating Evangeline Lilly at the time and Ian was suppposedly involved with Maggie Grace…i
[quote comment="231109"]Boone, Shannon, Charlie – all were interested in pursuing other (non-LOST) activities and departed the show on cue.
Paulo & Nikki were discarded due to fan disinterest.
Michael seems to be gone for good now.
Apparently it is our (fan) fault… as our blood-lust is being pandered to. I read the interview. http://www.tvguide.com/news/lost-harold-perrineau/080530-03 . . . Thanks Trixi..[/quote]
**************************************
not sure about Maggie Grace, but I had heard that both Ian Somerhalder and Dominic Monaghan were pretty upset about being written off of Lost…not too surprising when you think about the fact that Dominic was dating Evangeline Lilly at the time and Ian was suppposedly involved with Maggie Grace…i mean they
[quote comment="231109"]Boone, Shannon, Charlie – all were interested in pursuing other (non-LOST) activities and departed the show on cue.
Paulo & Nikki were discarded due to fan disinterest.
Michael seems to be gone for good now.
Apparently it is our (fan) fault… as our blood-lust is being pandered to. I read the interview. http://www.tvguide.com/news/lost-harold-perrineau/080530-03 . . . Thanks Trixi..[/quote]
**************************************
not sure about Maggie Grace, but I had heard that both Ian Somerhalder and Dominic Monaghan were pretty upset about being written off of Lost…not too surprising when you think about the fact that Dominic was dating Evangeline Lilly at the time and Ian was suppposedly involved with Maggie Grace…i mean
[quote comment="231109"]Boone, Shannon, Charlie – all were interested in pursuing other (non-LOST) activities and departed the show on cue.
Paulo & Nikki were discarded due to fan disinterest.
Michael seems to be gone for good now.
Apparently it is our (fan) fault… as our blood-lust is being pandered to. I read the interview. http://www.tvguide.com/news/lost-harold-perrineau/080530-03 . . . Thanks Trixi..[/quote]
**************************************
not sure about Maggie Grace, but I had heard that both Ian Somerhalder and Dominic Monaghan were initially pretty upset about being written off of Lost…not too surprising when you think about the fact that Dominic was dating Evangeline Lilly at the time and Ian was suppposedly involved with Maggie Grace…i mean they were off the show and their girlfriends were still on it…;)
i have absolutely NO CLUE how i was able to post the same comment four times but i totally apologize…that was definitely an accident…is there any way to delete them all but the last one?
[quote comment="231027"][quote comment="230911"]how about this sudden brain storm that came to me in a blinding purple flash…..wait for it…[/quote]
You could be on to something Leah, but there are some questions I have.
[quote comment="230911"]What if locke actually died when his father pushed him out of the window???and thats the locke in the coffin.the “other locke “is still the leader of the pack in fantasy island.it seems wierd that he should pick the same method of sucide as his dad tried to kill him with.[/quote]
Where did anyone say *how* Locke tried to kill himself. Sayid says that “they” said it was suicide, but I do not remember anyone talking about *how* Locke died.
[quote comment="230911"]
charlie became the’ true hero ‘nadia called him.dead[/quote]
apologies ,my grammer and punctuation are not so good in the middle of the night
i meant to say” charlie became the true hero” [that] nadia had said he was. Now dead .
Huh? I get the part about Charlie being a hero, but what do you mean about Nadia calling?
Didnt the newspaper report jack was reading ,on the bridge, report that a man threw himself out of a window ?
[quote comment="231027"][quote comment="230911"]how about this sudden brain storm that came to me in a blinding purple flash…..wait for it…[/quote]
You could be on to something Leah, but there are some questions I have.
[quote comment="230911"]What if locke actually died when his father pushed him out of the window???and thats the locke in the coffin.the “other locke “is still the leader of the pack in fantasy island.it seems wierd that he should pick the same method of sucide as his dad tried to kill him with.[/quote]
Where did anyone say *how* Locke tried to kill himself. Sayid says that “they” said it was suicide, but I do not remember anyone talking about *how* Locke died.
[quote comment="230911"]
charlie became the’ true hero ‘nadia called him.dead[/quote]
Huh? I get the part about Charlie being a hero, but what do you mean about Nadia calling?
[quote comment="230916"]I think the oa6 really are the only survivors
of flight 815.And i think adam and eve are the couple that got bitten by a spider [i forget thier names]and were buried alive.[/quote]
Nikki and Paulo. Hmmm. While I don’t think we have seen the last of Nikki and Paulo (I don’t really buy the producers killing them off just because the fans didn’t like their story line), I am not ready to agree that they are A&E.
: ) P[/quote]
i didnt mean locke s father pushed him out of the window recently ,i meant when he crippled him in s3
[quote comment="230203"][/quote]
_________[/quote]
———-
Let’s not forget that Michael keeping the bomb frozen allowed for the helicopter to land and take off. … Michael allowed for the Oceanic Six to make it off the island and that’s how he redeemed himself.[/quote]
[/quote]
——————
What the Hell? Michael REDEEMED himself?
Sorry, but there’s no way to redeem murder.
I must have just an opposite feeling about it than many here but suppose it was YOUR wife, child, sister…that got MURDERED by Mr. Michael. I’m sure you’d be whistling a different tune. The rationale goes; he was just looking out for his son (family)…well, then Logically if Michael was to kill your family then you’d want his blood in the worst way.
And I just went over and read the TV Guide comments via link someone posted..by the actor…he’s surprised at the “blood lust” of the fans who wanted to see Michael punished; what did he expect? At Least his character got a chance to do some good after his unforgivable behavior…. he didn’t like his characters demise, but so few actors ever get a part on a hugely successful show; He just complains—If I were the writers I’d never bring him back after the actors very ungrateful comments. The show put him on the map in a huge way.
I will miss Ekko. He had so much charisma.
Re: Shannon’s Departure From LOST
I researched it and Maggie Grace (Margaret Grace Denig) was very upset (bawling like crazy) when she was told they were writing her character out of the show. Apparently she had just bought a home in Oahu and was expecting a longer run on the show. She did have other projects lined-up though.
One might say that she recovered well. I the 3:17 minute video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_zVROAdLU
she has a little fun with the death of her character. There is a LOST prayer for those who dread the next 8 months, and, one of the stars is ‘Will’ – but I hope it is not our Will here at LostBlog. The 7meg video is PG-10, or less, for one bleeped word, cartoonish violence and some mild innuendo.
[quote comment="231177"][quote comment="230203"][/quote]
_________[/quote]
———-
Let’s not forget that Michael keeping the bomb frozen allowed for the helicopter to land and take off. … Michael allowed for the Oceanic Six to make it off the island and that’s how he redeemed himself.[/quote]
[/quote]
——————
What the Hell? Michael REDEEMED himself?
Sorry, but there’s no way to redeem murder.
I must have just an opposite feeling about it than many here but suppose it was YOUR wife, child, sister…that got MURDERED by Mr. Michael. I’m sure you’d be whistling a different tune. The rationale goes; he was just looking out for his son (family)…well, then Logically if Michael was to kill your family then you’d want his blood in the worst way.
And I just went over and read the TV Guide comments via link someone posted..by the actor…he’s surprised at the “blood lust” of the fans who wanted to see Michael punished; what did he expect? At Least his character got a chance to do some good after his unforgivable behavior…. he didn’t like his characters demise, but so few actors ever get a part on a hugely successful show; He just complains—If I were the writers I’d never bring him back after the actors very ungrateful comments. The show put him on the map in a huge way.
I will miss Ekko. He had so much charisma.[/quote]
****************************************
yeah, even before he murdered two people in cold blood, i didn’t like Michael’s character much…and while he did try to help the survivors out at the end, i don’t think that made up for killing two people…and trying to kill himself in NY when he still had a son to think about…as for the actor, agree with it it or not i can respect his opinion and understand why he would be upset about not being on the show anymore…and he is a great actor (Oz & William Shakespeare’s Romeo & Juliet)…as for Michael, i’m cool with his character’s death…the island used him up and threw him away and he paid the price for betrayal…;)
Thanks to DocH for the link to the youbtube video with Maggie Grace (which was very funny!), because from there, I found this clip
http://tinyurl.com/5qjz3h
which chronicles most of the flashforwards (not including part 2/3 of There’s No Place Like Home) in what appear to be chronological order.
: ) P
When Jeremy Bentham (aka John Locke) told Jack that bad things have been happening on the island be because Charles Widmore found the island and took over? That’s why Ben and the O6 must get back?
[quote comment="230489"][quote comment="230463"][quote comment="230460"]It has been mentioned by several people that they believe the “adoptive couple in LA” is Jack and Kate or Kate and Sawyer etc. I have always believed that the psychic used that excuse to get Claire on the plane knowing that it would never make it to LA thus forcing her to raise Aaron herself. He INSISTED that SHE had to raise him. I am still not convinced that there ever was a couple, it was a ruse. Only my opinion and I will probably be proven to be wrong.[/quote]
Or MAYBE someone (Widmore, Ben, Jacob) convinced the psychic to get Claire on the plane BECAUSE Kate and Sawyer were supposed to raise Aaron.
Not that I really can speculate about that, but just throwing ideas out there! LOL
: ) P[/quote]
———
That’s the way I understood it as. Someone “convincing” the psychic to get Claire onto the plane. If I remember correctly it seemed like he had a rather quick change of heart on the subject. “Your suppose to raise him”/ “your not suppose to raise him”.
Not to sue about who is supposed to raise him though. Didn’t he tell Ekko he was a fraud? That was all pretty close to the same real time too, I think.[/quote]
++++++++++++++
I think the phycic was real. He “knew” Claire was supposed to raise Aaron. Later he “knew” that Claire had to be on the plane so that she would end up raising Aaron. Perhaps someone pushed him to send her on the plane.
I think he told Mr. Eko he was a fraud either because someone talked him into sending Clair to LA and he knew that was wrong or because he was seeing things about to happen that were too overwhelming to him. He was overcome by what he saw and didn’t want any more responsibility related to it.
Didn’t he also see Rose?
Laura
Correction on my last comment.
The phycic new that Claire would end up with Aaron if she got on that plane. He insisted it had to be that flight. He lied to her about there being a couple in LA to get her to go. He knew the plane would crash. Later he felt guilty for lying to her and that’s why he told Eko he was a fraud.
[quote comment="231186"]Thanks to DocH for the link to the youbtube video with Maggie Grace (which was very funny!), because from there, I found this clip
http://tinyurl.com/5qjz3h
which chronicles most of the flashforwards (not including part 2/3 of There’s No Place Like Home) in what appear to be chronological order.
: ) P[/quote]
In that clip they have Hurley’s birthday after the CS funeral, but TNPLH part 1, Hurley’s suprise partywas before Th CS funeral.
[quote comment="231206"]Correction on my last comment.
The phycic new that Claire would end up with Aaron if she got on that plane. He insisted it had to be that flight. He lied to her about there being a couple in LA to get her to go. He knew the plane would crash. Later he felt guilty for lying to her and that’s why he told Eko he was a fraud.[/quote]
*****************************
This has always been my view too.
[quote comment="231206"]Correction on my last comment.
The phycic new that Claire would end up with Aaron if she got on that plane. He insisted it had to be that flight. He lied to her about there being a couple in LA to get her to go. He knew the plane would crash. Later he felt guilty for lying to her and that’s why he told Eko he was a fraud.[/quote]
**************************************
i agree….i said something very similar to this in comment 710 and i think Lost4Ever said something similar even before that…i think you have to think the psychic ‘put’ her on flight 815 (knowing it was going to crash) to keep her from giving the baby up…but by that logic, since Claire doesn’t currently have Aaron, things don’t seemed to have worked out
that way, do they?
Some more finale links – jeff jensen has a two page wrap-up at
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20204819,00.html?iid=top25-20080606-%27Lost%27%3A+4+open+questions
the fun stuff is the three or four links to other sites – that really go into depth. you decide. i’d never steer anyone away from here… this is good background info tho.
[quote comment="231241"][quote comment="231206"]Correction on my last comment.
The phycic new that Claire would end up with Aaron if she got on that plane. He insisted it had to be that flight. He lied to her about there being a couple in LA to get her to go. He knew the plane would crash. Later he felt guilty for lying to her and that’s why he told Eko he was a fraud.[/quote]
**************************************
i agree….i said something very similar to this in comment 710 and i think Lost4Ever said something similar even before that…i think you have to think the psychic ‘put’ her on flight 815 (knowing it was going to crash) to keep her from giving the baby up…but by that logic, since Claire doesn’t currently have Aaron, things don’t seemed to have worked out
[/quote]
that way, do they?
*************************************
So was it actually “Claire” manifesting herself in Aaron’s room, or some “dark force” manifesting itself as Claire, in order to prevent Aaron from being brought back? Why wouldn’t Claire want Aaron to be brought back? Why did the psychic insist that Claire herself HAD to raise Aaron?
“Don’t you dare bring him back!”
Why does it have to be Aaron that she is talking about?
Don’t bring Jack back!
Don’t bring Locke back! (Ben?)
[quote comment="231552"]
So was it actually “Claire” manifesting herself in Aaron’s room, or some “dark force” manifesting itself as Claire, in order to prevent Aaron from being brought back? Why wouldn’t Claire want Aaron to be brought back? Why did the psychic insist that Claire herself HAD to raise Aaron?[/quote]
No really sure. IMO, Claire appeared to Kate clearly in a dream sequence, just as Libby appeared to Michael in the hospital, a dream sequence. When Jack saw CS, both times, and Hurley talked to Charlie, they were both wide awake and not sleeping as Kate was. To me these appear to be different types of island “manifestations”. Maybe those are the type of “nightmares” Widmore was referring to.
I said this jokingly before about the psychic warning Claire because maybe he knew Aaron would be raised by a murderer ( Kate ) living in a crappy city like LA.
[quote comment="231567"]“Don’t you dare bring him back!”
Why does it have to be Aaron that she is talking about?
Don’t bring Jack back!
Don’t bring Locke back! (Ben?)[/quote]
That’s a good point. Are you assuming that none of them can return without all of them returning? Ben is the one who stated: “All of you have to go back”, are we to believe that he is telling the truth this time?
[quote comment="231567"]“Don’t you dare bring him back!”
Why does it have to be Aaron that she is talking about?
Don’t bring Jack back!
Don’t bring Locke back! (Ben?)[/quote]
Amen.
[quote comment="230374"] But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone.
[/quote]
He probably put them in his backpack right? The same backpack he threw off the chopper which will probably float back to the island after the move is complete. So they could end up in anyone’s hands.
[quote]
Ben is the one who stated: “All of you have to go back”, are we to believe that he is telling the truth this time?
[/quote]
Ben frequently ‘visits’ the truth.
It’s just that he rarely visits the other part of the oath – “… the whole truth… and nothing but the truth.”
[quote comment="231572"][quote comment="230374"] But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone.
[/quote]
He probably put them in his backpack right? The same backpack he threw off the chopper which will probably float back to the island after the move is complete. So they could end up in anyone’s hands.[/quote]
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
I just watched that episode last night. Jack puts the stones back in the little pouch, but the episode does NOT show what he does with them after that (at least in that episode).
Do we see the stones again in a later episode? How do you/we know they are backgammon stones?
: ) P
[quote comment="231578"][quote]
Ben is the one who stated: “All of you have to go back”, are we to believe that he is telling the truth this time?
[/quote]
Ben frequently ‘visits’ the truth.
It’s just that he rarely visits the other part of the oath – “… the whole truth… and nothing but the truth.”[/quote]
————–
So, I am assuming by your response, you believe that they ALL must return together. Ben does “frequently visit the truth”, especially when it seems to benefit his “plans”.
Back when we say Michael try and visit Walt in NY it was speculated that Walt was angry at Michael because he told him he had killed Libby and Ana Lucia. I now think we were wrong.
I think Walt was mad at Michael because they left the island with Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley being held by the others. Walt probably thought all the other losties would be killed by the others and blamed Michael for that. More guilt was added on when they got home and lied about their names and didn’t send help to the island for their friends.
When the O6 returned and told a public lie Walt really started to wonder what was going on. He asked Hurley why no-opne came to see him. I would assume that no-one knew where he was. He didn’t try and call or see they untill after Locke came and talked to him.
I think Locke came and told Walt that Michael had gone back to try and help his friends and that is why Walt forgave Michael and the other O6. Locke told him why they all had to lie in a way that Walt could understand and accept.
I also wonder if when Hurley said “I’mm sorry I went with Locke” he meant off island after the rescue. Something happens that we havn’t seen yet.
[quote comment="231602"]Back when we say Michael try and visit Walt in NY it was speculated that Walt was angry at Michael because he told him he had killed Libby and Ana Lucia. I now think we were wrong.
[/quote]
That part was not speculated. At that time, the reason wa because he shot Libby and Ana Lucia. At least that was how the conversation he had with Tom went.
MICHAEL: Why would I help the son of a bitch who kidnapped my son?
TOM: We gave him back to you in one piece, Mike, you’re the one who lost him. You told him, didn’t you? You couldn’t carry the guilt of what you did to those two women all by yourself, so you shared it with a 10-year-old kid. Is that why you wanna kill yourself, Michael? Because that’s the way he looks at you now? Because he knows you’re a murderer?
[quote comment="231596"][quote comment="231572"][quote comment="230374"] But I’m gonna say that Adam is Jack. It makes total sense to me, as Jack was the one who found those backgammon stones, and kept them, and never told anyone.
[/quote]
He probably put them in his backpack right? The same backpack he threw off the chopper which will probably float back to the island after the move is complete. So they could end up in anyone’s hands.[/quote]
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
I just watched that episode last night. Jack puts the stones back in the little pouch, but the episode does NOT show what he does with them after that (at least in that episode).
Do we see the stones again in a later episode? How do you/we know they are backgammon stones?
: ) P[/quote]
———
There is no mention of the stones appearing again on lostpedia.
[quote comment="231184"][quote comment="231177"][quote comment="230203"][/quote]
_________[/quote]
———-
Let’s not forget that Michael keeping the bomb frozen allowed for the helicopter to land and take off. … Michael allowed for the Oceanic Six to make it off the island and that’s how he redeemed himself.[/quote]
[/quote]
——————
What the Hell? Michael REDEEMED himself?
Sorry, but there’s no way to redeem murder.
I must have just an opposite feeling about it than many here but suppose it was YOUR wife, child, sister…that got MURDERED by Mr. Michael. I’m sure you’d be whistling a different tune. The rationale goes; he was just looking out for his son (family)…well, then Logically if Michael was to kill your family then you’d want his blood in the worst way.
And I just went over and read the TV Guide comments via link someone posted..by the actor…he’s surprised at the “blood lust” of the fans who wanted to see Michael punished; what did he expect? At Least his character got a chance to do some good after his unforgivable behavior…. he didn’t like his characters demise, but so few actors ever get a part on a hugely successful show; He just complains—If I were the writers I’d never bring him back after the actors very ungrateful comments. The show put him on the map in a huge way.
I will miss Ekko. He had so much charisma.[/quote]
****************************************
yeah, even before he murdered two people in cold blood, i didn’t like Michael’s character much…and while he did try to help the survivors out at the end, i don’t think that made up for killing two people…and trying to kill himself in NY when he still had a son to think about…as for the actor, agree with it it or not i can respect his opinion and understand why he would be upset about not being on the show anymore…and he is a great actor (Oz & William Shakespeare’s Romeo & Juliet)…as for Michael, i’m cool with his character’s death…the island used him up and threw him away and he paid the price for betrayal…;)[/quote]
_________________________
Yeesh! You guys are harsh! Let’s look at who Michael kills …
Ana Lucia: Murderer of two innocent islanders and all around bad cop.
Libby: Probable widmore plant spying on Hugo and Probably also responsible for Desmond and the Oceanic group being stranded on the island.
I, for one, would like to see a Michael/Walt reunion .. and I don’t rule it out. From the finale we are shown that Walt might still believe his father is alive, after having spoken to Locke. Ater all, Desmond was still alive after blowing up in the hatch.
[quote comment="231241"][quote comment="231206"]Correction on my last comment.
The phycic new that Claire would end up with Aaron if she got on that plane. He insisted it had to be that flight. He lied to her about there being a couple in LA to get her to go. He knew the plane would crash. Later he felt guilty for lying to her and that’s why he told Eko he was a fraud.[/quote]
**************************************
i agree….i said something very similar to this in comment 710 and i think Lost4Ever said something similar even before that…i think you have to think the psychic ‘put’ her on flight 815 (knowing it was going to crash) to keep her from giving the baby up…but by that logic, since Claire doesn’t currently have Aaron, things don’t seemed to have worked out
[/quote]
that way, do they?
______________________
Maybe it was just important that Aaron be born on the island
[quote comment="231600"][quote comment="231578"][quote]
Ben is the one who stated: “All of you have to go back”, are we to believe that he is telling the truth this time?
[/quote]
Ben frequently ‘visits’ the truth.
It’s just that he rarely visits the other part of the oath – “… the whole truth… and nothing but the truth.”[/quote]
————–
So, I am assuming by your response, you believe that they ALL must return together. Ben does “frequently visit the truth”, especially when it seems to benefit his “plans”.[/quote]
_________________
Maybe Ben sees this as a loophope to get back to the island?
[quote comment="230819"]Well we’ve now had a Sayid/Nadia reunion, a Des/Penny reunion, a Sawyer/Kate/Jack thing (again)…so maybe that means we will get a Hurley/Libby moment, but that also leaves the door open for a Charlie/Claire moment (although that might be a little weird)…and maybe a Jin/Sun moment but in the latter three combinations, at least one party is presumed dead so I’m not sure how that would play out. I could see it happening most easily with Hurley though since he’s already seeing dead people
[/quote]
______________________
I’m wondering … the “imaginary” guy from Hugo’s first trip to the funny farm: Hallucination? Real dead guy? Early manifestation of the island? Jacob?? Anyone remember his name?
[quote comment="231854"][quote comment="230819"]Well we’ve now had a Sayid/Nadia reunion, a Des/Penny reunion, a Sawyer/Kate/Jack thing (again)…so maybe that means we will get a Hurley/Libby moment, but that also leaves the door open for a Charlie/Claire moment (although that might be a little weird)…and maybe a Jin/Sun moment but in the latter three combinations, at least one party is presumed dead so I’m not sure how that would play out. I could see it happening most easily with Hurley though since he’s already seeing dead people
[/quote]
______________________
I’m wondering … the “imaginary” guy from Hugo’s first trip to the funny farm: Hallucination? Real dead guy? Early manifestation of the island? Jacob?? Anyone remember his name?[/quote]
—————–
Dave. It was stated in a podcast that he was imaginary in the hospital and a manifestation on the island.
[quote comment="231846"]
Yeesh! You guys are harsh! Let’s look at who Michael kills …
Ana Lucia: Murderer of two innocent islanders and all around bad cop.
Libby: Probable widmore plant spying on Hugo and Probably also responsible for Desmond and the Oceanic group being stranded on the island.
[/quote]
All around bad cop? We saw her exact revenge on the monster that took her unborn baby’s life. Maybe in your opinion, that ‘s BAD, but not mine. She knew justice would never be served and decided to hand out her own brand of punishment. She did kill Goodwin, but Goodwin killed how many tailies? One that we know of Nathan. She was led to believe the he was out to harm them. I have no explanation for Shannon though.
What have we seen Libby do that was wrong? She gave Des a boat and broke the fat guy’s heart. Hurley had a second lotto ticket with her.
[quote comment="231856"]
All around bad cop? We saw her exact revenge on the monster that took her unborn baby’s life. Maybe in your opinion, that ‘s BAD, but not mine. She knew justice would never be served and decided to hand out her own brand of punishment.
She did kill Goodwin, but Goodwin killed how many tailies? One that we know of Nathan. She was led to believe the he was out to harm them. I have no explanation for Shannon though.
What have we seen Libby do that was wrong? She gave Des a boat and broke the fat guy’s heart. Hurley had a second lotto ticket with her.[/quote]
_______________
Yeah, bad cop, you know the type, emotional, violent, pulls guns on unarmed civilians … the kind of person who’d throw someone in a pit for acting “suspicious” and threaten to cut off his fingers one-by-one.
Libby’s way too connected to everything not to be a Widmore plant.
— All I’m saying is: if you can forgive Ana Lucia, you can forgive Michael. He was a desperate Father trying to save his son. I’ve said it several times, Noone on that island is “good” except Hugo, and maybe Rose.
I’m a forgiving guy, I’d have liked to see the Michael/Walt reunion
[quote comment="231862"][quote comment="231856"]
All around bad cop? We saw her exact revenge on the monster that took her unborn baby’s life. Maybe in your opinion, that ‘s BAD, but not mine. She knew justice would never be served and decided to hand out her own brand of punishment.
She did kill Goodwin, but Goodwin killed how many tailies? One that we know of Nathan. She was led to believe the he was out to harm them. I have no explanation for Shannon though.
What have we seen Libby do that was wrong? She gave Des a boat and broke the fat guy’s heart. Hurley had a second lotto ticket with her.[/quote]
_______________
Yeah, bad cop, you know the type, emotional, violent, pulls guns on unarmed civilians … the kind of person who’d throw someone in a pit for acting “suspicious” and threaten to cut off his fingers one-by-one.
Libby’s way too connected to everything not to be a Widmore plant.
— All I’m saying is: if you can forgive Ana Lucia, you can forgive Michael. He was a desperate Father trying to save his son. I’ve said it several times, Noone on that island is “good” except Hugo, and maybe Rose.
I’m a forgiving guy, I’d have liked to see the Michael/Walt reunion[/quote]
——————
I never liked Ana Lucia. And she did kill people. I thought you were trying to justify murder, that’s all. Because that is what Michael did, he committed murder. Then he proceded to tell his 12 year-old son that he did it for him. LOL. IMO, Michael was never a real man. He desrves no reunion with his supposed son, who he knew for about 70 days.
[quote comment="231848"][quote comment="231241"][quote comment="231206"]Correction on my last comment.
The phycic new that Claire would end up with Aaron if she got on that plane. He insisted it had to be that flight. He lied to her about there being a couple in LA to get her to go. He knew the plane would crash. Later he felt guilty for lying to her and that’s why he told Eko he was a fraud.[/quote]
**************************************
i agree….i said something very similar to this in comment 710 and i think Lost4Ever said something similar even before that…i think you have to think the psychic ‘put’ her on flight 815 (knowing it was going to crash) to keep her from giving the baby up…but by that logic, since Claire doesn’t currently have Aaron, things don’t seemed to have worked out
[/quote]
that way, do they?
______________________
Maybe it was just important that Aaron be born on the island[/quote]
***********************************
Interesting! When I read your comment, I immediately thought about how Ben used to tell everyone that he was born on the island, like it justified his position among the others because he was born on the island. Of course, he wasn’t. As far as we know, Alex was, and Aaron was. Don’t know about Carl or anyone else for sure, but it could be very important that Aaron was.
[quote comment="231867"][quote comment="231862"][quote comment="231856"]
All around bad cop? We saw her exact revenge on the monster that took her unborn baby’s life. Maybe in your opinion, that ‘s BAD, but not mine. She knew justice would never be served and decided to hand out her own brand of punishment.
She did kill Goodwin, but Goodwin killed how many tailies? One that we know of Nathan. She was led to believe the he was out to harm them. I have no explanation for Shannon though.
What have we seen Libby do that was wrong? She gave Des a boat and broke the fat guy’s heart. Hurley had a second lotto ticket with her.[/quote]
_______________
Yeah, bad cop, you know the type, emotional, violent, pulls guns on unarmed civilians … the kind of person who’d throw someone in a pit for acting “suspicious” and threaten to cut off his fingers one-by-one.
Libby’s way too connected to everything not to be a Widmore plant.
— All I’m saying is: if you can forgive Ana Lucia, you can forgive Michael. He was a desperate Father trying to save his son. I’ve said it several times, Noone on that island is “good” except Hugo, and maybe Rose.
I’m a forgiving guy, I’d have liked to see the Michael/Walt reunion[/quote]
——————
I never liked Ana Lucia. And she did kill people. I thought you were trying to justify murder, that’s all. Because that is what Michael did, he committed murder. Then he proceded to tell his 12 year-old son that he did it for him. LOL. IMO, Michael was never a real man. He desrves no reunion with his supposed son, who he knew for about 70 days.[/quote]
********************************
Well, in his defense, he did know about Walt his whole life, but was pressured to give him up to be adopted by Brian when Walt was very young. He didn’t want to, but he did it anyway, and now has to get his mind around having a son again. HOWEVER, ALL the people who killed someone, for WHATEVER the reason, are criminals and are NOT good people.
[quote comment="231872"] HOWEVER, ALL the people who killed someone, for WHATEVER the reason, are criminals and are NOT good people.[/quote]
Again we come back to this argument that is a matter of opinion. It’s almost like a debate on capital punishment, abortion, or euthenasia. There ARE different situations for different people. Some people think an EYE for an EYE is OK, and who am I to argue. But I think general statements like that are opinions.
[quote comment="231867"]
——————
I never liked Ana Lucia. And she did kill people. I thought you were trying to justify murder, that’s all. Because that is what Michael did, he committed murder. Then he proceded to tell his 12 year-old son that he did it for him. LOL. IMO, Michael was never a real man. He desrves no reunion with his supposed son, who he knew for about 70 days.[/quote]
_____________________
No, I wan’t trying to do that, I just thought ESB and Bobola were being a little harsh, condemning one murderer while canonizing another. I mean, Sawyer killed someone in cold blood for revenge (a worse excuse than Michael’s) and I don’t hear anyone trying to vote him off the island.
[quote comment="231886"]
[/quote]
No, I wan’t trying to do that, I just thought ESB and Bobola were being a little harsh, condemning one murderer while canonizing another. I mean, Sawyer killed someone in cold blood for revenge (a worse excuse than Michael’s) and I don’t hear anyone trying to vote him off the island.
I didn’t read where they “canonized” a murderer. You brought up Ana Lucia. But that’s fine, we can’t all see things the same, and that is what makes the show great. I guess you would have had to walk in someone’s shoes to know what would justify the killing of another. But I have said my two ( probably more ) cents.
Yeah, bad cop, you know the type, emotional, violent, pulls guns on unarmed civilians … the kind of person who’d throw someone in a pit for acting “suspicious” and threaten to cut off his fingers one-by-one.
Libby’s way too connected to everything not to be a Widmore plant.
— All I’m saying is: if you can forgive Ana Lucia, you can forgive Michael. He was a desperate Father trying to save his son. I’ve said it several times, Noone on that island is “good” except Hugo, and maybe Rose
///////////////
trixanna and pj .just for you, Ive changed my name.
Death plays a big roll in the losties lives.
they,ve either , cheated death,or should have died,or have killed some one ,or even been responsable for the death of some one indirectly, some where along the line. prior to coming to the island.
Ive lost count of how many hospital beds and funerals and car crashes there have been.If i was ben i should give them a wide birth!lolthey are all bad luck!
[quote comment="231886"][quote comment="231867"]
[/quote]
——————
I never liked Ana Lucia. And she did kill people. I thought you were trying to justify murder, that’s all. Because that is what Michael did, he committed murder. Then he proceded to tell his 12 year-old son that he did it for him. LOL. IMO, Michael was never a real man. He desrves no reunion with his supposed son, who he knew for about 70 days.[/quote]
_____________________
No, I wan’t trying to do that, I just thought ESB and Bobola were being a little harsh, condemning one murderer while canonizing another. I mean, Sawyer killed someone in cold blood for revenge (a worse excuse than Michael’s) and I don’t hear anyone trying to vote him off the island.
+++++++++++
I think we need to look at what people did off island and on island dirrerently.
Off island they were living by the rules of society. Sayer killed someone in cold blood for revenge years after the origional crime. In society I don’t think there is anyone who would justify that.
On the island the rules of society arn’t there to guide of protect our losties.They are being taken or killed by unseen others. They are kidnaped, drugged and no-one seems to know the rules (except Ben). It is a survival situation and that changes how people react.
Look at Juliette. She came to the island as a fertility doc. Now she can track in the jungle, fight and is pretty good with a gun. If you counted out 40 of your friends how many of them could shoot a gun. Almost everyone on the island has searned to by now.
What I want to know is how and why there are soo many guns and soo much amo on a isolated island. Why does the island allow all these guns. If the island wouldn’t let Michael kill himself or let Keamy shoot Michael why did it “allow” Keamy to shoot Alex.
Maybe the island always has a plan and needed Alex dead to controll Ben.
[quote comment="231901"]
Maybe the island always has a plan and needed Alex dead to controll Ben.[/quote]
Nice. Putting Ben on a revenge warpath OFF the island.
What I want to know is how and why there are soo many guns and soo much amo on a isolated island. Why does the island allow all these guns. If the island wouldn’t let Michael kill himself or let Keamy shoot Michael why did it “allow” Keamy to shoot Alex.
///////////////////////
Because i think you cant kill, what is dead already.
[quote comment="231901"]
+++++++++++
I think we need to look at what people did off island and on island dirrerently.
Off island they were living by the rules of society. Sayer killed someone in cold blood for revenge years after the origional crime. In society I don’t think there is anyone who would justify that.
On the island the rules of society arn’t there to guide of protect our losties.They are being taken or killed by unseen others. They are kidnaped, drugged and no-one seems to know the rules (except Ben). It is a survival situation and that changes how people react.
Look at Juliette. She came to the island as a fertility doc. Now she can track in the jungle, fight and is pretty good with a gun. If you counted out 40 of your friends how many of them could shoot a gun. Almost everyone on the island has searned to by now.
What I want to know is how and why there are soo many guns and soo much amo on a isolated island. Why does the island allow all these guns. If the island wouldn’t let Michael kill himself or let Keamy shoot Michael why did it “allow” Keamy to shoot Alex.
Maybe the island always has a plan and needed Alex dead to controll Ben.[/quote]
_________________________
Great points! Maybe the argument of who’s “good” and who’s”bad” is irrelevant. I’ve been working from the assumption that, since the island is a magical place where miracles happen, that the island is good, and I think that it is. But maybe whatever supernatural consciousness that is “protecting” it (i.e Jacob) is BAD! He protects people he wants to use and lets people he doesn’t need die. When he’s through using someone he throws them away (Michael, Ben Etc.) Widmore wants to use the island, Ben uses the island, their greed/power lust makes them easily manipulated by Jacob. Maybe Jacob and the others have been holding the island hostage for hundreds or thousands of years? Maybe Jacob (the supplanter) doesn’t care who’s in charge of the island, as long as they do what he (Jacob) wants. Maybe the donkey wheel is “a flaming sword which turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life” (Gen 3:24)
… or maybe hanging out at the beach listening to Reggae music and drinking beer all day has affected me in some way
[quote comment="231952"]What I want to know is how and why there are soo many guns and soo much amo on a isolated island. Why does the island allow all these guns. If the island wouldn’t let Michael kill himself or let Keamy shoot Michael why did it “allow” Keamy to shoot Alex.
///////////////////////
Because i think you cant kill, what is dead already.[/quote]
______________________
“But as for the cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and decievers of every sort, their lot is the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death” (Rev 21:8)
800 comments, but I guess I have until January ’09 to get through them, no?
[quote comment="231901"] If the island wouldn’t let Michael kill himself or let Keamy shoot Michael why did it “allow” Keamy to shoot Alex.[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
That is the best question in the last few hundred comments.
Lots of people have been killed on the island, how does the island choose who is protected?
I remember Mikhail thanking Locke for pushing him into the sonic fence. Even though he didn’t die because the fence was on “stun” he seemed grateful that someone “killed” him.
Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?
[quote comment="231967"]
“But as for the cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and decievers of every sort, their lot is the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death” (Rev 21:8)[/quote]
Not familiar with that book. Which book is “eye for en eye” in?
[quote comment="232013"][quote comment="231967"]
“But as for the cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and decievers of every sort, their lot is the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death” (Rev 21:8)[/quote]
Not familiar with that book. Which book is “eye for en eye” in?[/quote]
____________________
Not familiar with the Revelation of St. John? It’s the last book in the Christian bible. I quoted it here as it seemed relevant to the topic; whether one could kill people who are already dead. The writers seem to be incorporating many aspects of world religions into the show, and being familiar with Christianity, I thought I could contribute to the discussion.
Eye for an eye is in Exodus.
[quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there!
[quote comment="232021"][quote comment="232013"][quote comment="231967"]
“But as for the cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and decievers of every sort, their lot is the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death” (Rev 21:8)[/quote]
Not familiar with that book. Which book is “eye for en eye” in?[/quote]
____________________
Not familiar with the Revelation of St. John? It’s the last book in the Christian bible. I quoted it here as it seemed relevant to the topic; whether one could kill people who are already dead. The writers seem to be incorporating many aspects of world religions into the show, and being familiar with Christianity, I thought I could contribute to the discussion.
Eye for an eye is in Exodus.[/quote]
————
TY
[quote comment="231602"]
I also wonder if when Hurley said “I’mm sorry I went with Locke” he meant off island after the rescue. Something happens that we havn’t seen yet.[/quote]
****
IMO he meant going with Locke and Ben to the Ochrid. Maybe he was feels that if Jack didn’t go to the Orchid for him Jack would of had time to use the Chopper to get to the Freighter, discover the Bomb and get everyone back to the island before an explosion. (Assuming the rest of the events still played out the way they did)
[quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.
[quote comment="232240"]I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
Did Ben work for DHARMA? I know his dad was a workman when Ben was a kid, and when Ben gassed him. But did Ben work for DHARMA? I always thought that Captain Eyeliner “recruited” him as a kid, and likely counseled him throughout his teen years.
: ) P
[quote comment="231567"]“Don’t you dare bring him back!”
Why does it have to be Aaron that she is talking about?
Don’t bring Jack back!
Don’t bring Locke back! (Ben?)[/quote]
**************************
i think we assume it’s Aaron because she is sitting at his bedside when she says this…and because Kate would be directly responsible for bringing Aaron back…but this a great point and just goes to show how easily an audience can be ‘lead’…;)
i was gone all weekend, but since i was mentioned, one last thing from me regarding the whole Michael/Sawyer/Ana Lucia -thing…
Ana Lucia murdered some people (although Shannon was an ‘accident’, if there is such a thing on this island and Goodman could be considerd self defense;) and look what it got her…dead! i don’t think her character was morally better than Michaels, i just thought she was more interesting…she probably ‘deserved’ to get whacked as much as Michael…
i said in an earlier post that this show was interesting because it made heroes out of murderers, liars and thieves…i mean most of my favorite characters were shady at best before the island (Sayid, Sawyer, Mr Eko, Kate)…they ALL have blood on their hands…
but i tend to separate characters actions into two categories: before the island and on the island (now i should probably add a third: after the island;) and while most of the characters on the island seemed to be becoming ‘better’ people, Michael got ‘worse’…
also, personally, i just never really liked Michael as a character very much…
also, as a side note, until we get more information, Libby was totally ‘innocent’…her only ‘crimes’ so far are being in the asylum and giving Desmond a boat…hopefully we get more info on her next season…
[quote comment="232276"][quote comment="232240"]I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
Did Ben work for DHARMA? I know his dad was a workman when Ben was a kid, and when Ben gassed him. But did Ben work for DHARMA? I always thought that Captain Eyeliner “recruited” him as a kid, and likely counseled him throughout his teen years.
: ) P[/quote]
**********************************************
i think by the time he killed his dear old dad, Benjamin was defintely not loyal to the DI, but i’m pretty sure that in the scene where he gasses his dad, he is also wearing a ‘DI workman’ jumpsuit…does anyone know for sure?
[quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
****************************************
LOVE this whole train of thought..it gives us a reason for the polar bears…;)
as for Ben’s knowledge of DI when he was a lowly ‘janitor-type’, i always assumed he was probably spying and gathering information while with the DI before the purge AND doing the same plus being directed/informed by Jacob and Alpert after the purge…
[quote comment="232280"][quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
****************************************
LOVE this whole train of thought..it gives us a reason for the polar bears…;)
as for Ben’s knowledge of DI when he was a lowly ‘janitor-type’, i always assumed he was probably spying and gathering information while with the DI before the purge AND doing the same plus being directed/informed by Jacob and Alpert after the purge…[/quote]
+++++++++++
Can someone go back and reqad the job on Bens Dharma suit. I don’t think he was a workman. He was Dharma educated and trained and may have had a more important job than his father, at least by a little.
[quote comment="232009"][quote comment="231901"] If the island wouldn’t let Michael kill himself or let Keamy shoot Michael why did it “allow” Keamy to shoot Alex.[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
That is the best question in the last few hundred comments.
Lots of people have been killed on the island, how does the island choose who is protected?
I remember Mikhail thanking Locke for pushing him into the sonic fence. Even though he didn’t die because the fence was on “stun” he seemed grateful that someone “killed” him.[/quote]
***************************************
the simple and confusing answer is…because it (the island) was thru with her and didn’t need her anymore…but i like the thought that her death was ‘allowed’ because it put Ben on a certain path…the whole destiny/fate/everything-happens-for-a-reason foundation that the show was built on…;)
****************************************
LOVE this whole train of thought..it gives us a reason for the polar bears…;)
as for Ben’s knowledge of DI when he was a lowly ‘janitor-type’, i always assumed he was probably spying and gathering information while with the DI before the purge AND doing the same plus being directed/informed by Jacob and Alpert after the purge…[/quote]
+++++++++++
Can someone go back and reqad the job on Bens Dharma suit. I don’t think he was a workman. He was Dharma educated and trained and may have had a more important job than his father, at least by a little.[/quote]
***************************************
i know it’s not official canon but this is what Lostpedia says about Ben’s DI job…
“Years later, an adult Ben, WHO WAS A WORKMAN LIKE HIS FATHER, accompanied Roger on a supply run. Ben reminded him that it was his birthday and Roger, having forgotten again, suggested they have a beer together after work…” (“The Man Behind the Curtain”)”
also, it says this in more than one place (once in the Benjamin Linus section and once in the section for his dad…;)
[quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
>>>>>>>>>
seems to me i have read this comment in a few other places. I think lost4ever should fess up to where he/she is getting his/her good ideas. I think you use spoiler/other sites and act as though they are your ideas because i read those sites and whenever i visit this one, you are always using the info i had just read and passing it off as your own. Yes, No?
[quote comment="232298"]seems to me i have read this comment in a few other places. I think lost4ever should fess up to where he/she is getting his/her good ideas. I think you use spoiler/other sites and act as though they are your ideas because i read those sites and whenever i visit this one, you are always using the info i had just read and passing it off as your own. Yes, No?[/quote]
Honestly, I don’t really think WHERE L4E gets the ideas shared here really matters. Whether the ideas are inspired by reading elsewhere, or not, shouldn’t make a difference. It is good to SHARE ideas, whatever the source (though, when cribbing something as “fact,” it is important to cite the source so that others can make a judgment about that fact. I for one, don’t take anything on Lostpedia as fact).
: ) P
[quote comment="232290"]****************************************
LOVE this whole train of thought..it gives us a reason for the polar bears…;)
as for Ben’s knowledge of DI when he was a lowly ‘janitor-type’, i always assumed he was probably spying and gathering information while with the DI before the purge AND doing the same plus being directed/informed by Jacob and Alpert after the purge…[/quote]
+++++++++++
Can someone go back and reqad the job on Bens Dharma suit. I don’t think he was a workman. He was Dharma educated and trained and may have had a more important job than his father, at least by a little.[/quote]
***************************************
i know it’s not official canon but this is what Lostpedia says about Ben’s DI job…
“Years later, an adult Ben, WHO WAS A WORKMAN LIKE HIS FATHER, accompanied Roger on a supply run. Ben reminded him that it was his birthday and Roger, having forgotten again, suggested they have a beer together after work…” (“The Man Behind the Curtain”)”
also, it says this in more than one place (once in the Benjamin Linus section and once in the section for his dad…;)[/quote]
*******************************************
Just to verify…screencap from Lost-media, episode ‘The Man Behind The Curtain’…
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1287-571.html
Does Walt need a machine to travel to the island, or is such a “very special boy” that he can appear–travel–anywhere he wants? Since time issue is present, maybe he needs a “constant” for the trick of it.
He did draw the birds while they held him prisoner. Were they all native to the island, or did he summon them somehow, flying on just the right bearing to reach the island?
I think Walt will return, and ultimately will succeed Locke on the island.
[quote comment="232314"]Just to verify…screencap from Lost-media, episode ‘The Man Behind The Curtain’…
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1287-571.html/quote
Cool. Thanks, ESB.
: ) P
[quote comment="232319"][quote comment="232314"]Just to verify…screencap from Lost-media, episode ‘The Man Behind The Curtain’…
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1287-571.html/quote
Cool. Thanks, ESB.
: ) P[/quote]
************************************
no problem…i was curious if i had remembered it right and if Lostpedia was right…;)
[quote comment="232318"]Does Walt need a machine to travel to the island, or is such a “very special boy” that he can appear–travel–anywhere he wants? Since time issue is present, maybe he needs a “constant” for the trick of it.
He did draw the birds while they held him prisoner. Were they all native to the island, or did he summon them somehow, flying on just the right bearing to reach the island?
I think Walt will return, and ultimately will succeed Locke on the island.[/quote]
*************************************
i hope you’re right…i hope Walt returns to the island
and uses some of those powers to clean house…,;)
[quote comment="232298"][quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
>>>>>>>>>
seems to me i have read this comment in a few other places. I think lost4ever should fess up to where he/she is getting his/her good ideas. I think you use spoiler/other sites and act as though they are your ideas because i read those sites and whenever i visit this one, you are always using the info i had just read and passing it off as your own. Yes, No?[/quote]
_____________________
Man! Way to rain on the parade. I was so excited that we came up with some really cool new insight into the show, only to be told it’s cudos to who-knows.
Well, I’m still happy, it’s a pretty good solve.
It really doesn’t matter to me where the info came from. Thank you for sharing it with us, L4E! I don’t go to other sites so it never would have occurred to me that this is a possibility. Thanks! Great find!
[quote comment="232420"]It really doesn’t matter to me where the info came from. Thank you for sharing it with us, L4E! I don’t go to other sites so it never would have occurred to me that this is a possibility. Thanks! Great find![/quote]
TY Trixianna and PJ. It was really a question ( Note the question mark ). I do try to say ” this is from lostpedia” when I find it there. I am not sure what ANON is talking about. But as I stated before, he/she doesn’t post. That is the 4th post by he/she all year and two of them were RIPPING me. So, I don’t hold ANY weight to what he/she says. This is a blog, right? I also do not blog elsewhere ( except for the little island ) and do not appreciate the implication. Sorry if I watched season 4 again ( my sis has TIVO ) and mentioned it. I like the rules of this blog, Be constructive, Be kind and be helpful. If ANON could do any of the 3, that would be great.
[quote comment="232318"]
I think Walt will return, and ultimately will succeed Locke on the island.[/quote]
I like that idea. I have been fascinated by him since his first FB, and then the mobisode, with the birds, really shook things up. He really put a scare into some of Ben’s people.
I am not sure if Walt has traveled to the island though thru time, but maybe he tries and that explains “taller ghost Walt”. Who knows? D & C stated that Walt has appeared as different “forms” in the show. Not just Walt, the person. I think you are right, his story is yet to come. It is starting to seem like the island has had many “leaders”?
I wonder if Locke reached out to Walt before the O6?
[quote comment="232462"]
I wonder if Locke reached out to Walt before the O6?[/quote]
And is Walt included in the Ben line ” I’m here to tell you that the island won’t let you come alone. ALL of you have to go back. ” ( From LOSTPEDIA )
What about Des and Lapidus? Are they included in Ben’s plan?
Before Ben and Locke went into the “Orchid”, Ben Told Jack that “If i were you, id want to be on that freighter whithin the hour”, in reference to him and the others getting to the helicopter and getting to the freighter. Maybe Ben knew there was explosives on it and maybe Ben wanted Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurly, and Sawyer to be on it when it blew up. and when it did he might of thought they were on it.
[quote comment="230180"]
So I guess ANON is right, but “quite often”, I don’t think so. I am not sure what ANON was talking about when he said “many many occasions”. He/she has 3 posts all year unless he/she is also ANON2, then maybe 10.
[/quote]
No relation to “anon”… I’ve got close to 60 posts in the past year. You can see my picture when they post the “South Park” group picture here in a few weeks. (ANdrew ON**** Jr. or II – vis-a-vis ANON2). Pops does not use ANON1.
[quote comment="232457"]
I also do not blog elsewhere (except for the little island) and do not appreciate the implication.
[/quote]
I googled “lost4ever” (case sensitive) and got a few hits to other blogs. Comcast, etc… but that was more than a year ago. Sure sounded like you (a good thing)/ What is the little island? You mean the Hydra Island?
I thought you raised the polar bear issue tactfully. No claim of ownership – just a ‘what if’ for all of us to ponder.
When Locke is wandering outside the ‘greenhouse’ and Jack walks up to him, you can see Locke has something in his left hand: like a white pamphlet or book. It’s in about 2 scenes. In the second scene I believe he puts it into his right hand and then sets it down. Could someone get a screencap of this? I thought I saw a Dharma logo on the cover and some writing or drawings inside. You have to look close, but there’s something definately in his hand. I’m thinking a guide to the plants that are present, or something about the greenhouse itself.
[quote comment="232481"]When Locke is wandering outside the ‘greenhouse’ and Jack walks up to him, you can see Locke has something in his left hand: like a white pamphlet or book. It’s in about 2 scenes. In the second scene I believe he puts it into his right hand and then sets it down. Could someone get a screencap of this? I thought I saw a Dharma logo on the cover and some writing or drawings inside. You have to look close, but there’s something definately in his hand. I’m thinking a guide to the plants that are present, or something about the greenhouse itself.[/quote]
****************************************
Or perhaps the paper/map he took out of Horace’s pocket?
[quote comment="232478"][quote comment="230180"]
So I guess ANON is right, but “quite often”, I don’t think so. I am not sure what ANON was talking about when he said “many many occasions”. He/she has 3 posts all year unless he/she is also ANON2, then maybe 10.
[/quote]
No relation to “anon”… I’ve got close to 60 posts in the past year. You can see my picture when they post the “South Park” group picture here in a few weeks. (ANdrew ON**** Jr. or II – vis-a-vis ANON2). Pops does not use ANON1.
[quote comment="232457"]
I also do not blog elsewhere (except for the little island) and do not appreciate the implication.
[/quote]
I googled “lost4ever” (case sensitive) and got a few hits to other blogs. Comcast, etc… but that was more than a year ago. Sure sounded like you (a good thing)/ What is the little island? You mean the Hydra Island?
I thought you raised the polar bear issue tactfully. No claim of ownership – just a ‘what if’ for all of us to ponder.[/quote]
******************************************
i think the ‘little island’ is where a select group of posters on this blog go when they get sick of talking to all us ‘other’ people…;)
Sounds like a nice place…;)
[quote comment="232466"][quote comment="232462"]
I wonder if Locke reached out to Walt before the O6?[/quote]
And is Walt included in the Ben line ” I’m here to tell you that the island won’t let you come alone. ALL of you have to go back. ” ( From LOSTPEDIA )
What about Des and Lapidus? Are they included in Ben’s plan?[/quote]
******************************************
in my opinion Walt would/should be included, as he was a survivor of Oceanic 815 and seems to be pretty ‘special’…Desmond And Lapidus are the real questions because while neither was on 815, they both had quite a bit to do with events that happened on the island…ESPECIALLY Desmond, whom we are lead to beleive caused the crash of 815…very interesting question…;)
[quote comment="232560"][quote comment="232466"][quote comment="232462"]
I wonder if Locke reached out to Walt before the O6?[/quote]
And is Walt included in the Ben line ” I’m here to tell you that the island won’t let you come alone. ALL of you have to go back. ” ( From LOSTPEDIA )
What about Des and Lapidus? Are they included in Ben’s plan?[/quote]
******************************************
in my opinion Walt would/should be included, as he was a survivor of Oceanic 815 and seems to be pretty ‘special’…Desmond And Lapidus are the real questions because while neither was on 815, they both had quite a bit to do with events that happened on the island…ESPECIALLY Desmond, whom we are lead to beleive caused the crash of 815…very interesting question…;)[/quote]
*********************************
then again, Ben had Walt and let him go…so you could argue that Ben DOESN’T want Walt on the island (because he is so ‘special’ maybe?)and isn’t including him in that group…hmmm
[quote comment="232469"]Before Ben and Locke went into the “Orchid”, Ben Told Jack that “If i were you, id want to be on that freighter whithin the hour”, in reference to him and the others getting to the helicopter and getting to the freighter. Maybe Ben knew there was explosives on it and maybe Ben wanted Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurly, and Sawyer to be on it when it blew up. and when it did he might of thought they were on it.[/quote]
*******************************************
i think this brings up interesting questions…it seemed obvious to me that Ben didn’t care one bit about the possibility that those survivors would be on the boat when it blew up…but now he supposedly needs everyone to come back…so is Ben secretly thanking his lucky stars that they survived? does he specifically need those survivors? or does he only need the ones who managed to escape before the Island was moved? i mean, if everything happened the way that it did, but everyone on the helicopter blew up with the boat, instead of escaping, who would there be to take back to island now? no one, right? i’m so confused…Of course, Ben lies ALOT so who knows if any of what he’s saying to Jack is true…
Maybe , he just wants to get everyone who knows about the island back to the island so he can get rid of them…get rid of everyone who knows ‘things’…then he wouldn’t have to worry about anyone spilling the beans…and his precious island would be safe…
[quote comment="232559"]i think the ‘little island’ is where a select group of posters on this blog go when they get sick of talking to all us ‘other’ people…;)
Sounds like a nice place…;)[/quote]
LOL.
You’re not far off, ESB. There is a group of people from this island that post there, but it isn’t about being sick of “the others” or anything even mildly nefarious.
The little island was created over that weekend when “they moved the island” and no one could get onto this blog. There were a bunch of us posting on a different thread that weeken,d worrying about never finding the island again because the main thread had an error message. That’s all. Find us and join us if you like!
: ) P
[quote comment="232559"]i think the ‘little island’ is where a select group of posters on this blog go when they get sick of talking to all us ‘other’ people…;)
Sounds like a nice place…;)[/quote]
LOL.
You’re not far off, ESB. There is a group of people from this island that post there, but it isn’t about being sick of “the others” or anything even mildly nefarious.
The little island was created over that weekend when “they moved the island” and no one could get onto this blog. There were a bunch of us posting on a different thread that weekend, worrying about never finding the island again because the main thread had an error message. That’s all. Find us and join us if you like!
: ) P
[quote comment="232543"][quote comment="232481"]When Locke is wandering outside the ‘greenhouse’ and Jack walks up to him, you can see Locke has something in his left hand: like a white pamphlet or book. It’s in about 2 scenes. In the second scene I believe he puts it into his right hand and then sets it down. Could someone get a screencap of this? I thought I saw a Dharma logo on the cover and some writing or drawings inside. You have to look close, but there’s something definately in his hand. I’m thinking a guide to the plants that are present, or something about the greenhouse itself.[/quote]
****************************************
Or perhaps the paper/map he took out of Horace’s pocket?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
Good catch Rita. My first thought was that Locke had taken notes from Ben and was trying to find the plant which would lead him to the elevator.
[quote comment="232570"][quote comment="232559"]i think the ‘little island’ is where a select group of posters on this blog go when they get sick of talking to all us ‘other’ people…;)
Sounds like a nice place…;)[/quote]
LOL.
You’re not far off, ESB. There is a group of people from this island that post there, but it isn’t about being sick of “the others” or anything even mildly nefarious.
The little island was created over that weekend when “they moved the island” and no one could get onto this blog. There were a bunch of us posting on a different thread that weekend, worrying about never finding the island again because the main thread had an error message. That’s all. Find us and join us if you like!
: ) P[/quote]
*****************************************
haha, when i’ve been posting on this island a little longer and don’t feel like such a newbie, (i’ve been watching the show religously since the beginning, but my very first post on a blog about it was right after the first part of this seasons finale;) maybe i will go exploring for the little one…thanks for the info and kindness!;)
[quote comment="232574"][quote comment="232570"][quote comment="232559"]i think the ‘little island’ is where a select group of posters on this blog go when they get sick of talking to all us ‘other’ people…;)
Sounds like a nice place…;)[/quote]
LOL.
You’re not far off, ESB. There is a group of people from this island that post there, but it isn’t about being sick of “the others” or anything even mildly nefarious.
The little island was created over that weekend when “they moved the island” and no one could get onto this blog. There were a bunch of us posting on a different thread that weekend, worrying about never finding the island again because the main thread had an error message. That’s all. Find us and join us if you like!
: ) P[/quote]
*****************************************
haha, when i’ve been posting on this island a little longer and don’t feel like such a newbie, (i’ve been watching the show religously since the beginning, but my very first post on a blog about it was right after the first part of this seasons finale;) maybe i will go exploring for the little one…thanks for the info and kindness!;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++
That’s funny. I was waiting for someone to comment ont the “small island” stuff.
[quote comment="232584"][quote comment="232574"][quote comment="232570"][quote comment="232559"]i think the ‘little island’ is where a select group of posters on this blog go when they get sick of talking to all us ‘other’ people…;)
Sounds like a nice place…;)[/quote]
LOL.
You’re not far off, ESB. There is a group of people from this island that post there, but it isn’t about being sick of “the others” or anything even mildly nefarious.
The little island was created over that weekend when “they moved the island” and no one could get onto this blog. There were a bunch of us posting on a different thread that weekend, worrying about never finding the island again because the main thread had an error message. That’s all. Find us and join us if you like!
: ) P[/quote]
*****************************************
haha, when i’ve been posting on this island a little longer and don’t feel like such a newbie, (i’ve been watching the show religously since the beginning, but my very first post on a blog about it was right after the first part of this seasons finale;) maybe i will go exploring for the little one…thanks for the info and kindness!;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++
That’s funny. I was waiting for someone to comment ont the “small island” stuff.[/quote]
*****************************************
it seemed pretty obvious to me what you guys were talking about, but i didn’t see any reason to ask about it or mention it (this island is still ‘comfortable’ to me;)…but then somebody else did, so i figured i’d post my theory on it…;)
It’s still comfortable here for us too! Like PJ said, it was place to hang out until our favorite blog was back up. It’s not a secret club, you just needed to be a little resourceful while the frozen donkey wheel was being turned. You’ll find it if you keep looking for a “purple sky” incident.
[quote comment="232586"]It’s still comfortable here for us too! Like PJ said, it was place to hang out until our favorite blog was back up. It’s not a secret club, you just needed to be a little resourceful while the frozen donkey wheel was being turned. You’ll find it if you keep looking for a “purple sky” incident.
[/quote]
LOL.
Well said, Hammer. I think some will see that as a challenge, and we welcome newcomers. *g*
: ) P
okay, so ive been thinking about it more and more and this is my official theory on Ben’s motivation/agenda:
I think keeping the island secret is exactly what Ben is trying to do by getting the survivors back to the island (and probably what Locke was trying to do too)…
-think about it…you’ve got Hurley in an asylum, already being questioned by Abaddon…easy to discredit, because he’s ‘crazy’ but he talks and Abaddon/Widmore is gonna listen, believe that…
-you’ve got Jack wandering around high as a kite, making phone calls to Kate (can you say bugged phone lines?) about how they have to go back and jumping on an airplane every chance he gets (strange behaviour for someone involved in a plane crash)…how confident do you feel, if you’re Ben, that he’s gonaa continue to keep the secret?
-More importantly, at some point in time Widmore will get sick of waiting and just snatch everyone up to see what they know…and Sun is already ‘talking’ to Widmore…Ben has got to be freakin’…how much ‘intense questioning’ would it take before someone spills the beans about Walt and his ‘abilities’ to Widmore?
-If Ben get’s them back to island before Widmore just snatches them up, then the secret is safe again…and in my opinion, the whole theory fits perfectly with Ben’s personality and MO…
okay, so there it is…it might not be original but i swear i didn’t read it anywhere else…thought of it while reading this blog…now feel free to shoot it full of holes please…;)
[quote comment="232587"][quote comment="232586"]It’s still comfortable here for us too! Like PJ said, it was place to hang out until our favorite blog was back up. It’s not a secret club, you just needed to be a little resourceful while the frozen donkey wheel was being turned. You’ll find it if you keep looking for a “purple sky” incident.
[/quote]
LOL.
Well said, Hammer. I think some will see that as a challenge, and we welcome newcomers. *g*
: ) P[/quote]
*****************************************
haha, i’m definitely curious and at some point in time i’ll probably do a little exploring…but i’m content to stay here for now and shake off the newbie status…;)One Lost blog taking up my free time is more than enough for me right now…;)
[quote comment="232588"]okay, so ive been thinking about it more and more and this is my official theory on Ben’s motivation/agenda:
I think keeping the island secret is exactly what Ben is trying to do by getting the survivors back to the island (and probably what Locke was trying to do too)…
-think about it…you’ve got Hurley in an asylum, already being questioned by Abaddon…easy to discredit, because he’s ‘crazy’ but he talks and Abaddon/Widmore is gonna listen, believe that…
-you’ve got Jack wandering around high as a kite, making phone calls to Kate (can you say bugged phone lines?) about how they have to go back and jumping on an airplane every chance he gets (strange behaviour for someone involved in a plane crash)…how confident do you feel, if you’re Ben, that he’s gonaa continue to keep the secret?
-More importantly, at some point in time Widmore will get sick of waiting and just snatch everyone up to see what they know…and Sun is already ‘talking’ to Widmore…Ben has got to be freakin’…how much ‘intense questioning’ would it take before someone spills the beans about Walt and his ‘abilities’ to Widmore?
-If Ben get’s them back to island before Widmore just snatches them up, then the secret is safe again…and in my opinion, the whole theory fits perfectly with Ben’s personality and MO…
okay, so there it is…it might not be original but i swear i didn’t read it anywhere else…thought of it while reading this blog…now feel free to shoot it full of holes please…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++++
Very plausible. And with what we know so far, my gun jams every time I try to shoot your theory.
[quote comment="232478"]
I googled “lost4ever” (case sensitive) and got a few hits to other blogs. Comcast, etc… but that was more than a year ago. Sure sounded like you (a good thing)/ What is the little island? You mean the Hydra Island?
I thought you raised the polar bear issue tactfully. No claim of ownership – just a ‘what if’ for all of us to ponder.[/quote]
TY. That was my goal ANON2 and I apologize for under crediting your post count. I did blog on another site a while ago ( not Comcast though ), but I didn’t find it near as interesting or as easy to use as this one.
For me ESB, the little island is not a place to go when I get sick of here. I enjoy debating with all. The more the merrier.
I hope you can find it, in case it happens to “move”. Do we have our own easter egg game now?
[quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
************************
This may sound like a stupid question…but how would a polar bear fit down that hole? I mean, Ben had to climb down a ladder and break the ice and then fall down into the snowy hole…how would a polar bear get in there? I like this theory though and it makes a lot of sense to me (other than the polar bear climbing down a ladder part) so I’m going to say there’s another entrance somewhere…?
I have been wondering about the finale timeline, specifically parts 2 and 3. It begins with Kate turning her car around and ends with Locke in the coffin. I assume that all the other events ( off-island ) happen in chronological order, between these 2 points. Is that correct?
[quote comment="232596"]I have been wondering about the finale timeline, specifically parts 2 and 3. It begins with Kate turning her car around and ends with Locke in the coffin. I assume that all the other events ( off-island ) happen in chronological order, between these 2 points. Is that correct?[/quote]
That’s how I saw it – a flashback within a flashback *G*.
: ) P
[quote comment="232572"][quote comment="232543"][quote comment="232481"]When Locke is wandering outside the ‘greenhouse’ and Jack walks up to him, you can see Locke has something in his left hand: like a white pamphlet or book. It’s in about 2 scenes. In the second scene I believe he puts it into his right hand and then sets it down. Could someone get a screencap of this? I thought I saw a Dharma logo on the cover and some writing or drawings inside. You have to look close, but there’s something definately in his hand. I’m thinking a guide to the plants that are present, or something about the greenhouse itself.[/quote]
****************************************
Or perhaps the paper/map he took out of Horace’s pocket?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
Good catch Rita. My first thought was that Locke had taken notes from Ben and was trying to find the plant which would lead him to the elevator.[/quote]
*****
Locke found a blueprint for the cabin in Horace’s pocket. So that’s not it.
Did anyone else see this white booklet in Locke’s hand in that scene?
[quote comment="232594"][quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
************************
This may sound like a stupid question…but how would a polar bear fit down that hole? I mean, Ben had to climb down a ladder and break the ice and then fall down into the snowy hole…how would a polar bear get in there? I like this theory though and it makes a lot of sense to me (other than the polar bear climbing down a ladder part) so I’m going to say there’s another entrance somewhere…?[/quote]
___________________
That’s be my guess too, except, if there were another entrance, why didn’t Ben enter that way? … unless there’s polar bears guarding that entrance!
For me ESB, the little island is not a place to go when I get sick of here. I enjoy debating with all. The more the merrier.
I hope you can find it, in case it happens to “move”. Do we have our own easter egg game now?[/quote]
****************************************
haha, well it was just a theory…i definitely didn’t mean to make you guys sound snobby or anything…;)
[quote comment="232588"]okay, so ive been thinking about it more and more and this is my official theory on Ben’s motivation/agenda:
I think keeping the island secret is exactly what Ben is trying to do by getting the survivors back to the island (and probably what Locke was trying to do too)…
-think about it…you’ve got Hurley in an asylum, already being questioned by Abaddon…easy to discredit, because he’s ‘crazy’ but he talks and Abaddon/Widmore is gonna listen, believe that…
-you’ve got Jack wandering around high as a kite, making phone calls to Kate (can you say bugged phone lines?) about how they have to go back and jumping on an airplane every chance he gets (strange behaviour for someone involved in a plane crash)…how confident do you feel, if you’re Ben, that he’s gonaa continue to keep the secret?
-More importantly, at some point in time Widmore will get sick of waiting and just snatch everyone up to see what they know…and Sun is already ‘talking’ to Widmore…Ben has got to be freakin’…how much ‘intense questioning’ would it take before someone spills the beans about Walt and his ‘abilities’ to Widmore?
-If Ben get’s them back to island before Widmore just snatches them up, then the secret is safe again…and in my opinion, the whole theory fits perfectly with Ben’s personality and MO…
okay, so there it is…it might not be original but i swear i didn’t read it anywhere else…thought of it while reading this blog…now feel free to shoot it full of holes please…;)[/quote]
_______________
I guess the question is: how written in stone is this “can’t go back to the island” thing. I think it’s more in Ben’s personality to just kill everyone rather than talk them into going back. Maybe bringing them back is the only way for Ben to be allowed back … it’s his sneaky loophole. Or I could be completely wrong once again
[quote comment="232602"][quote comment="232588"]okay, so ive been thinking about it more and more and this is my official theory on Ben’s motivation/agenda:
I think keeping the island secret is exactly what Ben is trying to do by getting the survivors back to the island (and probably what Locke was trying to do too)…
-think about it…you’ve got Hurley in an asylum, already being questioned by Abaddon…easy to discredit, because he’s ‘crazy’ but he talks and Abaddon/Widmore is gonna listen, believe that…
-you’ve got Jack wandering around high as a kite, making phone calls to Kate (can you say bugged phone lines?) about how they have to go back and jumping on an airplane every chance he gets (strange behaviour for someone involved in a plane crash)…how confident do you feel, if you’re Ben, that he’s gonaa continue to keep the secret?
-More importantly, at some point in time Widmore will get sick of waiting and just snatch everyone up to see what they know…and Sun is already ‘talking’ to Widmore…Ben has got to be freakin’…how much ‘intense questioning’ would it take before someone spills the beans about Walt and his ‘abilities’ to Widmore?
-If Ben get’s them back to island before Widmore just snatches them up, then the secret is safe again…and in my opinion, the whole theory fits perfectly with Ben’s personality and MO…
okay, so there it is…it might not be original but i swear i didn’t read it anywhere else…thought of it while reading this blog…now feel free to shoot it full of holes please…;)[/quote]
[/quote]
_______________
I guess the question is: how written in stone is this “can’t go back to the island” thing. I think it’s more in Ben’s personality to just kill everyone rather than talk them into going back. Maybe bringing them back is the only way for Ben to be allowed back … it’s his sneaky loophole. Or I could be completely wrong once again
*****************************************
nope, this is a great point…it would be easier to just kill em all…i hadn’t considered that…hmm, i’ll have to think about it some more…;)
but i don’t think the ‘can’t go back to the island’ thing is written in stone at all…consider the source of the comment, Ben…God knows he won’t win any awards for honesty…;)
[quote comment="232600"][quote comment="232594"][quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
************************
This may sound like a stupid question…but how would a polar bear fit down that hole? I mean, Ben had to climb down a ladder and break the ice and then fall down into the snowy hole…how would a polar bear get in there? I like this theory though and it makes a lot of sense to me (other than the polar bear climbing down a ladder part) so I’m going to say there’s another entrance somewhere…?[/quote]
___________________
That’s be my guess too, except, if there were another entrance, why didn’t Ben enter that way? … unless there’s polar bears guarding that entrance![/quote]
****************************************
could be a simple as the other entrance is no longer accessible…broken ladder, imploding hatch, etc…;)
[quote comment="232604"][quote comment="232600"][quote comment="232594"][quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
************************
This may sound like a stupid question…but how would a polar bear fit down that hole? I mean, Ben had to climb down a ladder and break the ice and then fall down into the snowy hole…how would a polar bear get in there? I like this theory though and it makes a lot of sense to me (other than the polar bear climbing down a ladder part) so I’m going to say there’s another entrance somewhere…?[/quote]
___________________
That’s be my guess too, except, if there were another entrance, why didn’t Ben enter that way? … unless there’s polar bears guarding that entrance![/quote]
****************************************
could be a simple as the other entrance is no longer accessible…broken ladder, imploding hatch, etc…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?
[quote comment="232606"][quote comment="232604"][quote comment="232600"][quote comment="232594"][quote comment="232240"][quote comment="232023"][quote comment="232012"]Is it safe to assume that Dharma used a poler bear ( the one found by Red in Tunisia ) to move the island or can the “time-traveling bunny machine” transport things to other places as well?[/quote]
_______________
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there![/quote]
**********************************
YES! Now THAT’S using the old noodle! Thinking outside the box. I love this idea, and it makes the most sense, especially since Ben ended up in the same place when HE moved the wheel. It could also explain how Ben knew about it, if Dharma was involved – but that’s another thing: For a low-level “workman” for Dharma, Ben sure did know an awful lot about everything that was going on. He has the knowledge and information of a true Dharma top-dog insider.[/quote]
************************
This may sound like a stupid question…but how would a polar bear fit down that hole? I mean, Ben had to climb down a ladder and break the ice and then fall down into the snowy hole…how would a polar bear get in there? I like this theory though and it makes a lot of sense to me (other than the polar bear climbing down a ladder part) so I’m going to say there’s another entrance somewhere…?[/quote]
___________________
That’s be my guess too, except, if there were another entrance, why didn’t Ben enter that way? … unless there’s polar bears guarding that entrance![/quote]
****************************************
could be a simple as the other entrance is no longer accessible…broken ladder, imploding hatch, etc…;)[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
***************************************
haha, do we REALLY have to wait until January or February of ’09 to see what happens next?!?!
[quote comment="232606"]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
*********************
Also, the room that the wheel was in…looked similar to the tunnel that Ben ran down to set Smokey on the mercs…not sure how the two may be connected, but there were what looked like hieroglyphics in the wheel room too, on what looked like a large stone in the middle of the room…does anyone know if those have been “decoded”?
Hammer, I like the theory that the island can move from place to place and that’s perhaps what the polar bear ended up dead in the desert…
This also makes me wonder about Charlotte…she knew about DI when she saw the polar bear in the desert, she may have been born on the island – making her a “miracle baby” along with Alex and Aaron…I hope we get more back story on her before this is all said and done!
[quote comment="232612"]
This also makes me wonder about Charlotte…she knew about DI when she saw the polar bear in the desert, she may have been born on the island – making her a “miracle baby” along with Alex and Aaron…I hope we get more back story on her before this is all said and done![/quote]
++++++++++++++++
Don’t know if I’m in the park with the “away from the moving island theory”, but maybe that’s what happened to Charlotte too. Maybe she is looking for the place she was born because she happened to be too far from the “island” when it was moved and has been researching “where” is ever since? Maybe that’s what Miles was talking about (“What DO I mean?”)
[quote comment="232606"]
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
That’s a very good possibility, that when the island moves things may get stranded. But I think when Locke said “It’s not an island. It’s a place where miracles happen.” He was being more the philospher John Locke, responding to Jack’s obtuse statement: “It’s an island, John. No one needs to protect it.” So I don’t know if that is what Locke meant literally. When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. Did they arrive at the beginning of the DI?
[quote comment="232644"][quote comment="232606"]
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
That’s a very good possibility, that when the island moves things may get stranded. But I think when Locke said “It’s not an island. It’s a place where miracles happen.” He was being more the philospher John Locke, responding to Jack’s obtuse statement: “It’s an island, John. No one needs to protect it.” So I don’t know if that is what Locke meant literally. When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. Did they arrive at the beginning of the DI?[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Yes, and that is clearly why I said “I want to take the comment out of context.” My extremely loose theory is that the island doesn’t need to stay in the water when it moves. Maybe it’s an island merely because of location?
Another loose end….the DHARMA shark….do you think it stayed close enough to the island to get moved? Or would it show up like the polar bear? Maybe on a fishing boat with someone like Charlotte looking at it with a big grin?
[quote comment="232644"] “It’s an island, John. No one needs to protect it.” So I don’t know if that is what Locke meant literally. [/quote]
++++++++++++++
By the way, I agree that it is what was meant….but if that’s what the writers wanted us to believe, they should have written the line…”It’s not JUST and island, Jack.” or something similar. JMO.
[quote comment="232644"][quote comment="232606"]
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
That’s a very good possibility, that when the island moves things may get stranded. But I think when Locke said “It’s not an island. It’s a place where miracles happen.” He was being more the philospher John Locke, responding to Jack’s obtuse statement: “It’s an island, John. No one needs to protect it.” So I don’t know if that is what Locke meant literally. When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. Did they arrive at the beginning of the DI?[/quote]
***************************************
i got the impression that the DI was already up and running and ‘well-oiled’ by the time Ben and his dad arrived…but i’d have to go back and watch that episode again…and i agree, i think the ‘it’s not an island, it’s a place where miracles happen…” statement was just Locke being…well, Locke…;)
“the problem with looking for a little island is…there are ALOT of little islands…”
[quote comment="232658"]
“the problem with looking for a little island is…there are ALOT of little islands…”[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Easter egg = Ben F Craver
[quote comment="232644"]
When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. [/quote]
Juliet took the sub too. She was asked to take some drugs to knock her out because ‘the trip can be kind of rough’. She was just an hour, or so, outside of Miami when she ‘departed’ for the island. Still, she came to the island in the sub. That little sub is no trans-oceaninc vessel… it had one mission… to ferry people and supplies back & forth to the Looking Glass Station & the dock. That little moonpool that Des & Charlie entered was a perfect size for the sub. The sleeping pills are needed to hide the fact that folks are going thru a time portal, then being loaded onto the sub for the final two miles. The rough part of the trip is the disorientation (or newbie disbelief) you suffer… like Ben coming to in the middle of the desert with no clue as to the date.
Where does that leave us. Two portals… maybe you can only go one way thru them… in thru the “Looking Glass”, out thru the “Orchid”.
[quote comment="232655"][quote comment="232644"][quote comment="232606"]
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
That’s a very good possibility, that when the island moves things may get stranded. But I think when Locke said “It’s not an island. It’s a place where miracles happen.” He was being more the philospher John Locke, responding to Jack’s obtuse statement: “It’s an island, John. No one needs to protect it.” So I don’t know if that is what Locke meant literally. When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. Did they arrive at the beginning of the DI?[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Yes, and that is clearly why I said “I want to take the comment out of context.” My extremely loose theory is that the island doesn’t need to stay in the water when it moves. Maybe it’s an island merely because of location?
Another loose end….the DHARMA shark….do you think it stayed close enough to the island to get moved? Or would it show up like the polar bear? Maybe on a fishing boat with someone like Charlotte looking at it with a big grin?[/quote]
———-
I guess we have to wait to see what happens to Faraday and the zodiac survivors. They need to survive or they might be running out of “red shirts”.
Regarding Locke’s statement, I read your out of context comment and replied hastily. My bad. I was trying to remind people the context of the original statement.
[quote comment="232674"][quote comment="232658"]
“the problem with looking for a little island is…there are ALOT of little islands…”[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Easter egg = Ben F Craver[/quote]
++++++++++++
Damn, tried to be funny and messed it up:
Ben F Cravier
I’m a Bozo.
[quote comment="232677"][quote comment="232655"]
Regarding Locke’s statement, I read your out of context comment and replied hastily. My bad. I was trying to remind people the context of the original statement.[/quote]
++++++++++++
Cool beans.
[quote comment="232679"][quote comment="232674"][quote comment="232658"]
“the problem with looking for a little island is…there are ALOT of little islands…”[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Easter egg = Ben F Craver[/quote]
++++++++++++
Damn, tried to be funny and messed it up:
Ben F Cravier
I’m a Bozo.
[/quote]
********************************************
haha, now that just hurts my feelings…;) i still plan on shaking the newbie tag as much as possible first but my curiosity got the best of me…and i like puzzles so…;)
[quote comment="232676"][quote comment="232644"]
When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. [/quote]
Juliet took the sub too. She was asked to take some drugs to knock her out because ‘the trip can be kind of rough’. She was just an hour, or so, outside of Miami when she ‘departed’ for the island. Still, she came to the island in the sub. That little sub is no trans-oceaninc vessel… it had one mission… to ferry people and supplies back & forth to the Looking Glass Station & the dock. That little moonpool that Des & Charlie entered was a perfect size for the sub. The sleeping pills are needed to hide the fact that folks are going thru a time portal, then being loaded onto the sub for the final two miles. The rough part of the trip is the disorientation (or newbie disbelief) you suffer… like Ben coming to in the middle of the desert with no clue as to the date.
Where does that leave us. Two portals… maybe you can only go one way thru them… in thru the “Looking Glass”, out thru the “Orchid”.[/quote]
———–
In previous threads, I have always been skeptical about the method used to travel to and fro from the island. I am not sure if I ever believed it was the sub. When Juliet first traveled to the island, she didn’t wake until the sub was at the landing.
So I agree with you about the possibility of portals. How many? Not sure. We have seen 3 of “Ben’s” people off the island on recruitment missions, Alpert, Ethan and Tom. Are there any more people I forgot and do they know about how to travel off island? Are they all, minus Richard, led to believe the sub was the way to travel?
[quote comment="232676"][quote comment="232644"]
When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. [/quote]
Juliet took the sub too. She was asked to take some drugs to knock her out because ‘the trip can be kind of rough’. She was just an hour, or so, outside of Miami when she ‘departed’ for the island. Still, she came to the island in the sub. That little sub is no trans-oceaninc vessel… it had one mission… to ferry people and supplies back & forth to the Looking Glass Station & the dock. That little moonpool that Des & Charlie entered was a perfect size for the sub. The sleeping pills are needed to hide the fact that folks are going thru a time portal, then being loaded onto the sub for the final two miles. The rough part of the trip is the disorientation (or newbie disbelief) you suffer… like Ben coming to in the middle of the desert with no clue as to the date.
Where does that leave us. Two portals… maybe you can only go one way thru them… in thru the “Looking Glass”, out thru the “Orchid”.[/quote]
****************************************
hmmm, portals and time travel are obviously not the ONLY way to get to or leave the island tho…the Freighter, Michael and Walt, and the O6…if we’re supposed to believe that Michael took that little boat to somewhere semi-civilized then it’s not a stretch that the sub could make that same journey…if you go back and watch that episode, the sub isn’t THAT small…
[quote comment="232722"]
… I agree with you about the possibility of portals. How many? Not sure. We have seen 3 of “Ben’s” people off the island on recruitment missions, Alpert, Ethan and Tom. Are there any more people I forgot and do they know about how to travel off island?…
[/quote]
Maybe the “Looking Glass” was bi-directional (to/fro) but the “Orchid” is a ‘last resort’ sort of portal (fro), where large time differentials are generated (not the preferred method). As for Richard, Tom & Ethan… maybe they did not use the ‘portal’ to come & go. Maybe they travelled like Mike/Walt… on the correct heading… and caught a flight out of Fiji or Tahiti. BUT… we saw Ethan & Richard three years back, recruiting Juliet AND we saw Tom, a month back, recruiting Michael – I think the ‘Looking Glass’ was still operational then, before Charlie got the place all moist. I’d just hate to be the first one coming through ‘Looking Glass’ portal after the flood… and 150 feet below the surface (glug-glug… mort).
[quote comment="232740"][quote comment="232676"][quote comment="232644"]
When Ben first arrived as a kid, with good old dad, it was clearly an island, surrounded by water, they took a submarine to get there. [/quote]
Juliet took the sub too. She was asked to take some drugs to knock her out because ‘the trip can be kind of rough’. She was just an hour, or so, outside of Miami when she ‘departed’ for the island. Still, she came to the island in the sub. That little sub is no trans-oceaninc vessel… it had one mission… to ferry people and supplies back & forth to the Looking Glass Station & the dock. That little moonpool that Des & Charlie entered was a perfect size for the sub. The sleeping pills are needed to hide the fact that folks are going thru a time portal, then being loaded onto the sub for the final two miles. The rough part of the trip is the disorientation (or newbie disbelief) you suffer… like Ben coming to in the middle of the desert with no clue as to the date.
Where does that leave us. Two portals… maybe you can only go one way thru them… in thru the “Looking Glass”, out thru the “Orchid”.[/quote]
****************************************
hmmm, portals and time travel are obviously not the ONLY way to get to or leave the island tho…the Freighter, Michael and Walt, and the O6…if we’re supposed to believe that Michael took that little boat to somewhere semi-civilized then it’s not a stretch that the sub could make that same journey…if you go back and watch that episode, the sub isn’t THAT small…[/quote]
*******************************************
actually based upon what is above the water, i would say that sub is pretty large…although my submarine knowledge is somewhat lacking…;)
screencap from lost-media, ‘One Of Us’:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1272-246.html
[quote comment="232748"]
actually based upon what is above the water, i would say that sub is pretty large…although my submarine knowledge is somewhat lacking…;)
screencap from lost-media, ‘One Of Us’:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1272-246.html/quote
That thing is tiny. My sub knowledge is not great either but I have seen “The Hunt for Red October”, “Das Boot”, and “Crimson Tide”.
[quote comment="232764"][quote comment="232748"]
actually based upon what is above the water, i would say that sub is pretty large…although my submarine knowledge is somewhat lacking…;)
screencap from lost-media, ‘One Of Us’:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1272-246.html/quote
That thing is tiny. My sub knowledge is not great either but I have seen “The Hunt for Red October”, “Das Boot”, and “Crimson Tide”.[/quote]
***************************************
you could very well be right…my opinion came only from my limted knowledge of of WWII subs…and i was basing my opinion upon what is sticking out of the water and how high it is sticking up, the majority of the length of the sub would under the water and not visible…but i could totally be wrong…;)
either way tho, the boat that Michael and Walt left on was pretty small too…and looked a lot older and less capable of serious open seas travel to me…;)
[quote comment="232771"][quote comment="232764"][quote comment="232748"]
actually based upon what is above the water, i would say that sub is pretty large…although my submarine knowledge is somewhat lacking…;)
screencap from lost-media, ‘One Of Us’:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1272-246.html/quote
That thing is tiny. My sub knowledge is not great either but I have seen “The Hunt for Red October”, “Das Boot”, and “Crimson Tide”.[/quote]
***************************************
you could very well be right…my opinion came only from my limted knowledge of of WWII subs…and i was basing my opinion upon what is sticking out of the water and how high it is sticking up, the majority of the length of the sub would under the water and not visible…but i could totally be wrong…;)
either way tho, the boat that Michael and Walt left on was pretty small too…and looked a lot older and less capable of serious open seas travel to me…;)[/quote]
____________________
First of all, I don’t think that’s a sub at all, it’s probably a prop
I’ve seen trident subs, they look incredibly small on the surface … then look about 200 feet behind it and you’ll see the tail fin! How long do you all think a sub ride from L.A. to the island would take … a week? That’s a long time to keep Juliet unconcious
[quote comment="232606"]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
_________________
OK, I’m on board with the island being able to move onto dry land, but I’m not giving in on the bears turning the wheel idea, it fits too good. What else were they training them to do with all those fish cakes anyway? I think that collar the tunesia bear was wearing was hooked onto the wheel. What a way to go if you’re a polar bear! Waking up in a desert!
[quote comment="232612"][quote comment="232606"]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
*********************
Also, the room that the wheel was in…looked similar to the tunnel that Ben ran down to set Smokey on the mercs…not sure how the two may be connected, but there were what looked like hieroglyphics in the wheel room too, on what looked like a large stone in the middle of the room…does anyone know if those have been “decoded”?
Hammer, I like the theory that the island can move from place to place and that’s perhaps what the polar bear ended up dead in the desert…
This also makes me wonder about Charlotte…she knew about DI when she saw the polar bear in the desert, she may have been born on the island – making her a “miracle baby” along with Alex and Aaron…I hope we get more back story on her before this is all said and done![/quote]
Perhaps the polar bear got to the donkey wheel through the caves and just happened to turn it some how and thats how he ended up in the desert.
Wasn’t there speculation a long time ago about whether or not Juliette was REALLY transported to the island by submarine? Maybe I dreamed it, and I hope I am not having LOST dreams now, but I was under the impression that people thought she was placed in the sub prior to being awakened from her sleep so she would think she was transported that way. To confuse her. I got very little sleep last night so I may be way off here, but I thought it was discussed before. Please tell me that I am NOT having LOST dreams!!!!
AHA!!!! Excellent idea!! Sure, the machine might have been able to transport the bear to Tunisia … but if they could train a bear … perhaps with some machine that dispenses fish cakes … to turn the wheel, they could move the island without having to risk not coming back. It was, after all, quite cold in the donkey wheel room, a polar bear would be very happy in there
///////////////////
Also, the room that the wheel was in…looked similar to the tunnel that Ben ran down to set Smokey on the mercs…not sure how the two may be connected,
///////////////
i thought staight away when ben entered the tunnel/room ,that it was the polar bears lair , the one locke rescued mr eko from ????
[quote comment="232775"][quote comment="232612"][quote comment="232606"]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Let’s think a little deeper. Keep in mind, Locke told Jack “this isn’t an island” in the finale. I want to take that comment out of context. What if at some point in time the island was hiding in the desert and one of the bears wondered too far from the island that isn’t an island? The island gets moved and the bear is standed? I think wheel might only have so many locations to move to and from. One click = the Sahara, two clicks = Fiji area?[/quote]
*********************
Also, the room that the wheel was in…looked similar to the tunnel that Ben ran down to set Smokey on the mercs…not sure how the two may be connected, but there were what looked like hieroglyphics in the wheel room too, on what looked like a large stone in the middle of the room…does anyone know if those have been “decoded”?
Hammer, I like the theory that the island can move from place to place and that’s perhaps what the polar bear ended up dead in the desert…
This also makes me wonder about Charlotte…she knew about DI when she saw the polar bear in the desert, she may have been born on the island – making her a “miracle baby” along with Alex and Aaron…I hope we get more back story on her before this is all said and done![/quote]
Perhaps the polar bear got to the donkey wheel through the caves and just happened to turn it some how and thats how he ended up in the desert.[/quote]
///////////////////
I think that everytime the island moves whether it be to dry land or sea, if an object occupies that space already, then the island merges with it or distorts it in some way. ie.the black rock ,was found in land.Perhaps it was sailing along ,minding its own business when….. whooosh!…the sky turned purple ,and dirty great island appeared under it .Then there was henry gale …floating along ,enjoying the view …sky turned purple..balloon went down.
Which brings us to 815, ….unbeknown to ben there is another way to move the island…by turning the failsafe key in the hatch…which happens to be situated back to back with the donkey wheel room[i bet}remember the drawing on the blastdoors showing a map of stations in the shape of a wheel ,and in the hub was the orchid .
So ..Desmond turns the key, warms up the island to start its moving prosses,just as the plane comes into its airspace,at that very moment., one half of the plane is where the island is about to transport to, and the tail section is where the island stands at that point! ..breaks in half falls miles apart???
A simalar thing happened to echos brothers plane and reaussau s boat i think.
[quote comment="232777"]Wasn’t there speculation a long time ago about whether or not Juliette was REALLY transported to the island by submarine? Maybe I dreamed it, and I hope I am not having LOST dreams now, but I was under the impression that people thought she was placed in the sub prior to being awakened from her sleep so she would think she was transported that way. To confuse her. I got very little sleep last night so I may be way off here, but I thought it was discussed before. Please tell me that I am NOT having LOST dreams!!!![/quote]
It has been discussed here before…Hopefully they are Locke dreams and not Widmorian nightmares.
[quote comment="232658"]“the problem with looking for a little island is…there are ALOT of little islands…”[/quote]
True.
Just remember *I* told you, we created the little island when “they moved the island” okay?
Never underestimate the power of a good search engine! *bg*
: ) P
….And finally …Where will the island pop up in season five? ..my money is on the sundi trench [if thats how you spell it].anyone else ?
[quote comment="232602"] I think it’s more in Ben’s personality to just kill everyone rather than talk them into going back. Maybe bringing them back is the only way for Ben to be allowed back ..[/quote]
How does Hammer do it?
( sniffs bait )…..swims away
[quote comment="232781"]
I think that everytime the island moves whether it be to dry land or sea, if an object occupies that space already, then the island merges with it or distorts it in some way. ie.the black rock ,was found in land.Perhaps it was sailing along ,minding its own business when….. whooosh!…the sky turned purple ,and dirty great island appeared under it .Then there was henry gale …floating along ,enjoying the view …sky turned purple..balloon went down.
Which brings us to 815, ….unbeknown to ben there is another way to move the island…by turning the failsafe key in the hatch…which happens to be situated back to back with the donkey wheel room[i bet}remember the drawing on the blastdoors showing a map of stations in the shape of a wheel ,and in the hub was the orchid .
So ..Desmond turns the key, warms up the island to start its moving prosses,just as the plane comes into its airspace,at that very moment., one half of the plane is where the island is about to transport to, and the tail section is where the island stands at that point! ..breaks in half falls miles apart???
A simalar thing happened to echos brothers plane and reaussau s boat i think.[/quote]
I like your idea as a whole. One thing I am unclear of though is when you get to Desmond turning the key. Are you referring to flight 815? He turned the key well after the original crash of flight 815. He was out killing Kelvin ( did he die? ) when the original crash occured.
What does GMTA mean? anyone. I know LOL, some of the cast initials CS ( Christian Shepherd ) or CW ( Charles Widmore ), and even some of the show titles TNPLH, but what is GMTA?
[quote comment="232787"]….And finally …Where will the island pop up in season five? ..my money is on the sundi trench [if thats how you spell it].anyone else ?[/quote]
I think the question is “when” will the island pop-up.
There are too many people discussing it to accurately quote and reply, so I’ll just start it out new…
What if… the polar bears WERE trained (with fish cookies) to turn the donkey wheel (the one we saw, or maybe another one), and were used to do so UNTIL someone was set up in the hatch to push the button every 108 minutes? Then, the polar bears escaped or were allowed to run amok.
Sorry if that doesn’t make sense to anyone else! I just need a way to tie the numbers, the computer, the fail safe, the purple sky and the donkey wheel together!
: ) P
[quote comment="232679"]
Easter egg = Ben F Cravier
[/quote]
Gees, Hammer, I KNOW where the little island is and you lost me with that Easter Egg. I can’t even find a decent anagram!
A little help?
: ) P
[quote comment="232786"][quote comment="232658"]“the problem with looking for a little island is…there are ALOT of little islands…”[/quote]
True.
Just remember *I* told you, we created the little island when “they moved the island” okay?
Never underestimate the power of a good search engine! *bg*
: ) P[/quote]
———
I liked Hammer’s Easter Egg….Ben F Cravier
[quote comment="232794"][quote comment="232679"]
Easter egg = Ben F Cravier
[/quote]
Gees, Hammer, I KNOW where the little island is and you lost me with that Easter Egg. I can’t even find a decent anagram!
A little help?
: ) P[/quote]
I’ll post it on the little island for you.
[quote comment="232795"]
I liked Hammer’s Easter Egg….Ben F Cravier[/quote]
Oh mylanta, I finally figured it out.
BRILLIANT.
*whew*
: ) P
[quote comment="232791"]What does GMTA mean? anyone. I know LOL, some of the cast initials CS ( Christian Shepherd ) or CW ( Charles Widmore ), and even some of the show titles TNPLH, but what is GMTA?[/quote]
Great
Minds
Think
Alike
I think Leah changed her name because she posted similar ideas at the same times as others. And several of us said GMTA to her!
: ) P
[quote comment="232798"][quote comment="232791"]What does GMTA mean? anyone. I know LOL, some of the cast initials CS ( Christian Shepherd ) or CW ( Charles Widmore ), and even some of the show titles TNPLH, but what is GMTA?[/quote]
Great
Minds
Think
Alike
I think Leah changed her name because she posted similar ideas at the same times as others. And several of us said GMTA to her!
: ) P[/quote]
TY. And they sure do.
[quote comment="232788"][quote comment="232602"] I think it’s more in Ben’s personality to just kill everyone rather than talk them into going back. Maybe bringing them back is the only way for Ben to be allowed back ..
_______________
How does Hammer do it?
( sniffs bait )…..swims away[/quote]
_______________
I think this was a shot!?!
[quote comment="228163"]great episode!!!
…..in no way is sun’s baby michael’s baby!!! sun is not that much of a slut. we have never been leaded to belive that they had an affair. it’s jin’s baby, and the show has clearly pointed that out. the reason sun told michael that she was pregnant was because she wanted him to know so he’d get jin out of the bomb area.
[quote]
if by slut you mean she wouldnt sleep with anyone but her husband – have you then forgotten Jae Lee! also she did get very close to Michael on the island before her reconciliation with Jin. it was very ambigious. however i take the point that Michael sent out Jin as the father. good point. unless….that was his ultimate scarifice saving his unborn child. as we know his history of putting his child’s welfare above all else.
but i like Seajams theory of two lives taken, two lives saved better. Altough a bit tough on the non-surviours heh. bet their a bit miffed with the island!
[quote comment="232794"][quote comment="232679"]
Easter egg = Ben F Cravier
[/quote]
Gees, Hammer, I KNOW where the little island is and you lost me with that Easter Egg. I can’t even find a decent anagram!
A little help?
: ) P[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++++
I know I’m an idiot, first I left out the I and had two R’s and only caught the missing I. Too damned busy…..
I found the little island pretty easily but won’t post there untill I have the time to read all the posts. It will be good to be able to travel between islands during the long, long, long break.
[quote comment="232914"]I found the little island pretty easily but won’t post there untill I have the time to read all the posts. It will be good to be able to travel between islands during the long, long, long break.[/quote]
Cool. Here is another attempt for anyone I have confused….sorry. I’ll let PJ do any further hints.
Ben F Cavier
Cool- I had just figured it out but was wondering about the extra “r”. Now I just have to find the island…
[quote comment="232791"][quote comment="232781"]
I think that everytime the island moves whether it be to dry land or sea, if an object occupies that space already, then the island merges with it or distorts it in some way. ie.the black rock ,was found in land.Perhaps it was sailing along ,minding its own business when….. whooosh!…the sky turned purple ,and dirty great island appeared under it .Then there was henry gale …floating along ,enjoying the view …sky turned purple..balloon went down.
Which brings us to 815, ….unbeknown to ben there is another way to move the island…by turning the failsafe key in the hatch…which happens to be situated back to back with the donkey wheel room[i bet}remember the drawing on the blastdoors showing a map of stations in the shape of a wheel ,and in the hub was the orchid .
So ..Desmond turns the key, warms up the island to start its moving prosses,just as the plane comes into its airspace,at that very moment., one half of the plane is where the island is about to transport to, and the tail section is where the island stands at that point! ..breaks in half falls miles apart???
A simalar thing happened to echos brothers plane and reaussau s boat i think.[/quote]
I like your idea as a whole. One thing I am unclear of though is when you get to Desmond turning the key. Are you referring to flight 815? He turned the key well after the original crash of flight 815. He was out killing Kelvin ( did he die? ) when the original crash occured.
What does GMTA mean? anyone. I know LOL, some of the cast initials CS ( Christian Shepherd ) or CW ( Charles Widmore ), and even some of the show titles TNPLH, but what is GMTA?[/quote]
you are correct ,i shall have to thinfk about that one, perhaps i should have said during melt down stage .that maybe when it happens
[quote comment="232799"][quote comment="232798"][quote comment="232791"]What does GMTA mean? anyone. I know LOL, some of the cast initials CS ( Christian Shepherd ) or CW ( Charles Widmore ), and even some of the show titles TNPLH, but what is GMTA?[/quote]
Great
Minds
Think
Alike
I think Leah changed her name because she posted similar ideas at the same times as others. And several of us said GMTA to her!
: ) P[/quote]
[/quote]
TY. And they sure do.
///////////
and here,s me thinkin it meant
greenwich mean time ass
[quote comment="232793"]There are too many people discussing it to accurately quote and reply, so I’ll just start it out new…
What if… the polar bears WERE trained (with fish cookies) to turn the donkey wheel (the one we saw, or maybe another one), and were used to do so UNTIL someone was set up in the hatch to push the button every 108 minutes? Then, the polar bears escaped or were allowed to run amok.
Sorry if that doesn’t make sense to anyone else! I just need a way to tie the numbers, the computer, the fail safe, the purple sky and the donkey wheel together!
: ) P[/quote]
it makes perfect sense
[quote comment="232925"]Cool- I had just figured it out but was wondering about the extra “r”. Now I just have to find the island…[/quote]
Sorry for the mix up gup.
in my opinion the theory that the bears were used to turn the wheel and move the island and that is how one ended up in the Sahara desert seems alot more likely than the whole island moving to the Sahara desert and a bear just wondering off of it…so i’m gonna vote for the DI training polar bears to turn the wheel so that when they had to move the island, no one had to leave, they just had to sacrifice a bear…but then the questions are why weren’t Ben and the Others using them for the same thing?/how did the bears get loose?/why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)
[quote comment="232931"]in my opinion the theory that the bears were used to turn the wheel and move the island and that is how one ended up in the Sahara desert seems alot more likely than the whole island moving to the Sahara desert and a bear just wondering off of it…so i’m gonna vote for the DI training polar bears to turn the wheel so that when they had to move the island, no one had to leave, they just had to sacrifice a bear…but then the questions are why weren’t Ben and the Others using them for the same thing?/how did the bears get loose?/why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
*******************************************
it was a good morning for exploring…;)
[quote comment="232931"]in my opinion the theory that the bears were used to turn the wheel and move the island and that is how one ended up in the Sahara desert seems alot more likely than the whole island moving to the Sahara desert and a bear just wondering off of it…so i’m gonna vote for the DI training polar bears to turn the wheel so that when they had to move the island, no one had to leave, they just had to sacrifice a bear…but then the questions are why weren’t Ben and the Others using them for the same thing?/how did the bears get loose?/why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
I tend to agree even though it was my idea about the island being in the desert.
It makes sense that they might use the bears to turn the wheel, do you figure Alpert’s group just did it themselves?
Now someone suggested that the computer replaced the turning of the wheel. Where I am LOST is what exactly did turning the key do? The purple sky event was similar to moving the island.
If turning the wheel = 108 = moving the island and purple sky = moving the island AND turning the key = purple sky, then did turning the key move the island?
I was hoping the turning the key stopped island and would support DOCH’s theory of all the timelines colliding. But it doesn’t seem like that’s what happened?
[quote comment="232931"]why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
Good point. Why would they let them go? I don’t think Ben or Richard ( the hostiles ) were into “silly experiments” with animals, so maybe they were into freeing them. They were probably protected behind the sonar fence and when they traveled past it they have appeared to be elite hunters, so I don’t think a polar bear would worry them too much.
[quote comment="232786"][quote comment="232658"]“the problem with looking for a little island is…there are ALOT of little islands…”[/quote]
True.
Just remember *I* told you, we created the little island when “they moved the island” okay?
Never underestimate the power of a good search engine! *bg*
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a nice hint too PJ, you controlling fiend.
[quote comment="232933"][quote comment="232931"]in my opinion the theory that the bears were used to turn the wheel and move the island and that is how one ended up in the Sahara desert seems alot more likely than the whole island moving to the Sahara desert and a bear just wondering off of it…so i’m gonna vote for the DI training polar bears to turn the wheel so that when they had to move the island, no one had to leave, they just had to sacrifice a bear…but then the questions are why weren’t Ben and the Others using them for the same thing?/how did the bears get loose?/why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
I tend to agree even though it was my idea about the island being in the desert.
It makes sense that they might use the bears to turn the wheel, do you figure Alpert’s group just did it themselves?
Now someone suggested that the computer replaced the turning of the wheel. Where I am LOST is what exactly did turning the key do? The purple sky event was similar to moving the island.
If turning the wheel = 108 = moving the island and purple sky = moving the island AND turning the key = purple sky, then did turning the key move the island?
I was hoping the turning the key stopped island and would support DOCH’s theory of all the timelines colliding. But it doesn’t seem like that’s what happened?[/quote]
****************************************
i honestly don’t know what to think about all of this stuff…i mean if turning the key moved the island, then what was the deal with having to enter the numbers every 108 minutes? did that keep the island from moving? and when the key was turned and the whole hatch ‘blew up’, why all of a sudden did the numbers not have to be entered anymore? i could totally see if the wheel was the old fashioned way of moving the island and the key/computer the modernized way, but the key/computer way could apparently only be used once…sheesh…there’s too much we don’t know about this and just trying to type it confused the heck out of me…;)
[quote comment="232935"][quote comment="232931"]why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
Good point. Why would they let them go? I don’t think Ben or Richard ( the hostiles ) were into “silly experiments” with animals, so maybe they were into freeing them. They were probably protected behind the sonar fence and when they traveled past it they have appeared to be elite hunters, so I don’t think a polar bear would worry them too much.[/quote]
**************************************
oh yeah, the sonar fence…thanks for reminding me…that makes sense…;) considering Desmond was left alone and the other stations had an abandoned feel to them, doesn’t seem like the others left the circle of the sonar fence very often (not until 815 crashed anyways) and so didn’t need to worry about the bears much…although i’m still confused (BIG surprise i know) because weren’t the bear cages that Sawyer and Kate were locked up in on the small island?
[quote comment="232933"]
I was hoping the turning the key stopped island and would support DOCH’s theory of all the timelines colliding. But it doesn’t seem like that’s what happened?[/quote]
What if turning the key started the island time and the timelines did collide eventually. I know someone brought this up before on earlier threads, but what if the island was always “stuck” in time and every 108 minutes it reset itself. Des turned the key and the island could not reset itself, and started to catch up with real world time.
Did anyone notice the interesting ripple effect the island made when it finally disappeared? Almost like it sunk.
[quote comment="232939"] because weren’t the bear cages that Sawyer and Kate were locked up in on the small island?[/quote]
Yes, as I recall, that is where the animal research station was kept by DHARMA. So it would make sense that the bears would be training and kept away from the other DHARMA workers for safety. No?
Oh, and the small island talk reminded me of something. What about the landing strip the others were building?
[quote comment="232940"][quote comment="232933"]
I was hoping the turning the key stopped island and would support DOCH’s theory of all the timelines colliding. But it doesn’t seem like that’s what happened?[/quote]
What if turning the key started the island time and the timelines did collide eventually. I know someone brought this up before on earlier threads, but what if the island was always “stuck” in time and every 108 minutes it reset itself. Des turned the key and the island could not reset itself, and started to catch up with real world time.
Did anyone notice the interesting ripple effect the island made when it finally disappeared? Almost like it sunk.[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++
Yeah, maybe they are still heading down that path. There was lots of clues like the doctor washing up on shore before he was dead and the morse code message saying he was dead before he was.
That ripple did look like the island sunk, but that would be weird eh?
[quote comment="232941"][quote comment="232939"] because weren’t the bear cages that Sawyer and Kate were locked up in on the small island?[/quote]
Yes, as I recall, that is where the animal research station was kept by DHARMA. So it would make sense that the bears would be training and kept away from the other DHARMA workers for safety. No?[/quote]
************************************
yeah, and polar bears are obviously awesome swimmers so they must be how they got to the big island, but why? it’s just weird and hopefully it’ll be explained at some point…
[quote comment="232942"]Oh, and the small island talk reminded me of something. What about the landing strip the others were building?[/quote]
I thought that was already explained. For the UFO’s.
[quote comment="232942"]Oh, and the small island talk reminded me of something. What about the landing strip the others were building?[/quote]
***************************************
haha, good question…i had kind of forgetten about that…probably distracted by the dress they made Kate wear while she was breaking rocks…;)
so, we add the landing strip to the incredibly long list of things that neeed explaining eh?
[quote comment="232938"]i honestly don’t know what to think about all of this stuff…i mean if turning the key moved the island, then what was the deal with having to enter the numbers every 108 minutes? did that keep the island from moving? and when the key was turned and the whole hatch ‘blew up’, why all of a sudden did the numbers not have to be entered anymore? i could totally see if the wheel was the old fashioned way of moving the island and the key/computer the modernized way, but the key/computer way could apparently only be used once…sheesh…there’s too much we don’t know about this and just trying to type it confused the heck out of me…;)[/quote]
Here’s how my mind is working around it… donkey wheels were originally used for many purposes, one of which was to “create” energy. Suppose that a polar bear wheel was intended to RELEASE energy? (I’m not talking about the wheel we saw Ben push – I will get to that.) The polar bears were trained to turn the wheel on a regular basis to keep the island “where it was.”
(The polar bears were ALSO used to MOVE the island as Ben did – sacrificed, as someone suggested, because they move off the island when it is done. Again, as someone suggested, explaining how a polar bear ended up in Tunisia. The bear population decreased with time.)
Eventually, they (not sure which THEY I am talking about) replaced the polar bears (running low on bears?) with the computer and a person to punch in numbers.
When Desmond didn’t enter the numbers in time, a huge amount of energy built up. When he finally did input the numbers, this energy was released just as the plane flew overhead, causing the crash. Perhaps the sky turned violet, lavender or mauve?
Then Locke destroyed the computer, it caused the energy to build up so much that when Desmond finally turned the key, it caused the purple sky event and perhaps moved the island a LITTLE bit. (Remember that Michael had to leave the island at 325° before the fail safe key was turned and everyone moved on and off the island at 305° afterwards.)
So now Widmore’s got a track on where the island is and so it has to be moved. The only polar bear left on the island is the one that Sawyer shot in season one, so Ben “sacrifices” himself by turning the donkey wheel.
I am sure there are lots of holes in the theory, but it is the first thing I’ve been able to get my head around that ties those ends together relatively neatly.
: ) P
[quote comment="232946"]
yeah, and polar bears are obviously awesome swimmers so they must be how they got to the big island, but why? it’s just weird and hopefully it’ll be explained at some point…[/quote]
What if Dharma brought both bears to turn the wheel and when the first one went thru, it was transported. The second one was not and made it’s home in the cave and found another way out. Good enough?
[quote comment="232952"][quote comment="232946"]
yeah, and polar bears are obviously awesome swimmers so they must be how they got to the big island, but why? it’s just weird and hopefully it’ll be explained at some point…[/quote]
What if Dharma brought both bears to turn the wheel and when the first one went thru, it was transported. The second one was not and made it’s home in the cave and found another way out. Good enough?[/quote]
*************************************
haha, yeah, that works…;)
[quote comment="232951"][quote comment="232938"]i honestly don’t know what to think about all of this stuff…i mean if turning the key moved the island, then what was the deal with having to enter the numbers every 108 minutes? did that keep the island from moving? and when the key was turned and the whole hatch ‘blew up’, why all of a sudden did the numbers not have to be entered anymore? i could totally see if the wheel was the old fashioned way of moving the island and the key/computer the modernized way, but the key/computer way could apparently only be used once…sheesh…there’s too much we don’t know about this and just trying to type it confused the heck out of me…;)[/quote]
Here’s how my mind is working around it… donkey wheels were originally used for many purposes, one of which was to “create” energy. Suppose that a polar bear wheel was intended to RELEASE energy? (I’m not talking about the wheel we saw Ben push – I will get to that.) The polar bears were trained to turn the wheel on a regular basis to keep the island “where it was.”
(The polar bears were ALSO used to MOVE the island as Ben did – sacrificed, as someone suggested, because they move off the island when it is done. Again, as someone suggested, explaining how a polar bear ended up in Tunisia. The bear population decreased with time.)
Eventually, they (not sure which THEY I am talking about) replaced the polar bears (running low on bears?) with the computer and a person to punch in numbers.
When Desmond didn’t enter the numbers in time, a huge amount of energy built up. When he finally did input the numbers, this energy was released just as the plane flew overhead, causing the crash. Perhaps the sky turned violet, lavender or mauve?
Then Locke destroyed the computer, it caused the energy to build up so much that when Desmond finally turned the key, it caused the purple sky event and perhaps moved the island a LITTLE bit. (Remember that Michael had to leave the island at 325° before the fail safe key was turned and everyone moved on and off the island at 305° afterwards.)
So now Widmore’s got a track on where the island is and so it has to be moved. The only polar bear left on the island is the one that Sawyer shot in season one, so Ben “sacrifices” himself by turning the donkey wheel.
I am sure there are lots of holes in the theory, but it is the first thing I’ve been able to get my head around that ties those ends together relatively neatly.
: ) P[/quote]
***********************************
haha…first of all ‘running low on bears?’ mad e me laugh…not sure why exactly but that is FUNNY to me…;)
and i’m with you on all of your post but i do wonder why no one’s worrying anymore about too much energy building up every 108 minutes…it would seem that turning the key was a pemanent solution to that particular problem then, right?
[quote comment="232951"]
When Desmond didn’t enter the numbers in time, a huge amount of energy built up. When he finally did input the numbers, this energy was released just as the plane flew overhead, causing the crash. Perhaps the sky turned violet, lavender or mauve?
I like your whole train of thought. The sky didn’t really turn any color when Des was late to pushing the button though. We saw the sky from the others perspective in the season 3 premier, A Tale of 2 Cities.
I especially like your idea about the bearings changing. I have always been curious as to why the 2 different bearings.
: ) P[/quote]
[quote comment="232952"][quote comment="232946"]
yeah, and polar bears are obviously awesome swimmers so they must be how they got to the big island, but why? it’s just weird and hopefully it’ll be explained at some point…[/quote]
What if Dharma brought both bears to turn the wheel and when the first one went thru, it was transported. The second one was not and made it’s home in the cave and found another way out. Good enough?[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Sounds good to me, wasn’t there a cave scene where they found some more bones and children’s toys. I think back then there was a theory that the bears may have killed some kids in a cave?
[quote comment="232958"][quote comment="232951"]
When Desmond didn’t enter the numbers in time, a huge amount of energy built up. When he finally did input the numbers, this energy was released just as the plane flew overhead, causing the crash. Perhaps the sky turned violet, lavender or mauve?
—————–
I like your whole train of thought. The sky didn’t really turn any color when Des was late to pushing the button though. We saw the sky from the others perspective in the season 3 premier, A Tale of 2 Cities.
I especially like your idea about the bearings changing. I have always been curious as to why the 2 different bearings.
: ) P[/quote][/quote]
What a newbie post.
[quote comment="232944"][quote comment="232940"][quote comment="232933"]
I was hoping the turning the key stopped island and would support DOCH’s theory of all the timelines colliding. But it doesn’t seem like that’s what happened?[/quote]
What if turning the key started the island time and the timelines did collide eventually. I know someone brought this up before on earlier threads, but what if the island was always “stuck” in time and every 108 minutes it reset itself. Des turned the key and the island could not reset itself, and started to catch up with real world time.
Did anyone notice the interesting ripple effect the island made when it finally disappeared? Almost like it sunk.[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++
Yeah, maybe they are still heading down that path. There was lots of clues like the doctor washing up on shore before he was dead and the morse code message saying he was dead before he was.
That ripple did look like the island sunk, but that would be weird eh?[/quote]
****************************************
on a side note, i have to say that i thought the ‘island disappearing’ looked WAY cool…i was afraid if they actually showed that it would look cheesy but i thought they did a really good job with the effects on that…;)
[quote comment="232951"][quote comment="232938"]i honestly don’t know what to think about all of this stuff…i mean if turning the key moved the island, then what was the deal with having to enter the numbers every 108 minutes? did that keep the island from moving? and when the key was turned and the whole hatch ‘blew up’, why all of a sudden did the numbers not have to be entered anymore? i could totally see if the wheel was the old fashioned way of moving the island and the key/computer the modernized way, but the key/computer way could apparently only be used once…sheesh…there’s too much we don’t know about this and just trying to type it confused the heck out of me…;)[/quote]
Here’s how my mind is working around it… donkey wheels were originally used for many purposes, one of which was to “create” energy. Suppose that a polar bear wheel was intended to RELEASE energy? (I’m not talking about the wheel we saw Ben push – I will get to that.) The polar bears were trained to turn the wheel on a regular basis to keep the island “where it was.”
(The polar bears were ALSO used to MOVE the island as Ben did – sacrificed, as someone suggested, because they move off the island when it is done. Again, as someone suggested, explaining how a polar bear ended up in Tunisia. The bear population decreased with time.)
Eventually, they (not sure which THEY I am talking about) replaced the polar bears (running low on bears?) with the computer and a person to punch in numbers.
When Desmond didn’t enter the numbers in time, a huge amount of energy built up. When he finally did input the numbers, this energy was released just as the plane flew overhead, causing the crash. Perhaps the sky turned violet, lavender or mauve?
Then Locke destroyed the computer, it caused the energy to build up so much that when Desmond finally turned the key, it caused the purple sky event and perhaps moved the island a LITTLE bit. (Remember that Michael had to leave the island at 325° before the fail safe key was turned and everyone moved on and off the island at 305° afterwards.)
So now Widmore’s got a track on where the island is and so it has to be moved. The only polar bear left on the island is the one that Sawyer shot in season one, so Ben “sacrifices” himself by turning the donkey wheel.
I am sure there are lots of holes in the theory, but it is the first thing I’ve been able to get my head around that ties those ends together relatively neatly.
: ) P[/quote]
********************************
I like this PJ, but I keep wondering what would have happened if Desmond had NOT turned the fail-safe key? We know that when he entered the numbers LATE, the plane crashed. What would have happened if NOTHING had been done? No numbers entered, no key turned? Would the island (or world?) have imploded? If so, then the plan to HOPE the guy in the hatch just kept entering the numbers, was a poor one. Too much at stake.
[quote comment="232947"][quote comment="232942"]Oh, and the small island talk reminded me of something. What about the landing strip the others were building?[/quote]
[/quote]
I thought that was already explained. For the UFO’s.
*******************************************
like i said a week ago…the whole island is actually a UFO with a really good disguise, haha
just to refresh my memory since we’re talking abou this today:
there are three bears that we know about for sure, right?
-the one that Sawyer killed.
-the one that attacked Mr Eko and took him to the cave.
-the skeleton of one that Charlotte found in Tunisia.
[quote comment="232968"]just to refresh my memory since we’re talking abou this today:
there are three bears that we know about for sure, right?
-the one that Sawyer killed.
-the one that attacked Mr Eko and took him to the cave.
-the skeleton of one that Charlotte found in Tunisia.[/quote]
What about the one that attacked Walt…or is that the same as Mr. Ekko?
[quote comment="232961"]Sounds good to me, wasn’t there a cave scene where they found some more bones and children’s toys. I think back then there was a theory that the bears may have killed some kids in a cave?[/quote]
In White Rabbit, S1E05, Jack finds some dolls, including one in water, up near the caves. But it is in among other debris from the crash (including Charlie’s guitar), so I don’t know if those are the toys you are referencing.
: ) P
[quote comment="232972"][quote comment="232968"]just to refresh my memory since we’re talking abou this today:
there are three bears that we know about for sure, right?
-the one that Sawyer killed.
-the one that attacked Mr Eko and took him to the cave.
-the skeleton of one that Charlotte found in Tunisia.[/quote]
What about the one that attacked Walt…or is that the same as Mr. Ekko?[/quote]
************************************
my guess would be that was the same one that got Mr Eko, but there is absolutely no proof of that so we could have at least four…
i’m not sure why i’m stuck on the bears today…guess until the finale, i just hadn’t really thought about their ‘meaning’ in a long time…;)
[quote comment="232978"][quote comment="232961"]Sounds good to me, wasn’t there a cave scene where they found some more bones and children’s toys. I think back then there was a theory that the bears may have killed some kids in a cave?[/quote]
In White Rabbit, S1E05, Jack finds some dolls, including one in water, up near the caves. But it is in among other debris from the crash (including Charlie’s guitar), so I don’t know if those are the toys you are referencing.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Nope, I might be remembering this wrong, but I thought it was during the tail section episodes. There was dump trucks or play cars or something like that. I thought there were tattered clothes (like the ones the Others used) as well?
Found it: It was in “Further Instructions”.
Polar bear cave
From Lostpedia
First seen
“Further Instructions”
Last seen
“Further Instructions”
Constructed by
Natural forces
Controlled by
Polar Bears
Locke ventured into a polar bear cave in search of Mr. Eko. Inside he found a wounded Eko and a polar bear, which he burned with a torch and a can of aerosol hairspray. (“Further Instructions”)
Contents
* A yellow Tonka truck.
* A skeleton partly covered by some fabric with the logo from the Pearl. There are at least two human skulls.
There is a picture on lostpedia. There are two human skulls and what looks like at least one bear skull? I guess add it to the bear count?
[quote comment="232995"]There is a picture on lostpedia. There are two human skulls and what looks like at least one bear skull? I guess add it to the bear count?[/quote]
**********************************
haha, okay…so we be up to at least four, possibly five polar bears…running wild on a tropical island…damn, i LOVE this show…;)
[quote comment="232925"]Cool- I had just figured it out but was wondering about the extra “r”. Now I just have to find the island…[/quote]
Find it yet?
Shhhhhhhhh.
[quote comment="233008"][quote comment="232925"]Cool- I had just figured it out but was wondering about the extra “r”. Now I just have to find the island…[/quote]
Find it yet?
Shhhhhhhhh.[/quote]
Hammer, are you whispering?
Btw, that reminds me… I rewatched episode nine of the first season (Solitary) where the whispers first appear (as far as I can tell).
Initially, it SOUNDS like whispers when Sayid first wakes up captive in Rousseau’s shelter. In actuality, I think it is his brain trying to “focus” on coming back to reality. However, the voices – that sound like whispers – seem to be “Where is Alex?” in many different languages – all in a sort of morphed version of Danielle’s voice.
Danielle then talks about hearing the “others’” whispers.
At the END of the episode, when Sayid is making his way through the jungle, he hears the whispers.
Curiouser and curiouser.
: ) P
Mmmmm…polar bears on a tropical island???? snow? …then ,tunisian desert?
I think the bears could have died of dehydration. and why polar bears?
why not donkeys?
there were three bear cages.
do sharks eat fish biscuits? lots of questions,
The answers are coming.
[quote comment="233016"][quote comment="233008"][quote comment="232925"]Cool- I had just figured it out but was wondering about the extra “r”. Now I just have to find the island…[/quote]
Find it yet?
Shhhhhhhhh.[/quote]
Hammer, are you whispering?
[/quote]
++++++++++++
[quote comment="233020"][quote comment="233016"][quote comment="233008"][quote comment="232925"]Cool- I had just figured it out but was wondering about the extra “r”. Now I just have to find the island…[/quote]
Find it yet?
Shhhhhhhhh.[/quote]
Hammer, are you whispering?
[/quote]
[/quote]
++++++++++++
Okay, I didn’t do that quote and reply correctly. But no, I haven’t had much luck today. Any additional hints?
[quote comment="232939"][quote comment="232935"][quote comment="232931"]why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
Good point. Why would they let them go? I don’t think Ben or Richard ( the hostiles ) were into “silly experiments” with animals, so maybe they were into freeing them. They were probably protected behind the sonar fence and when they traveled past it they have appeared to be elite hunters, so I don’t think a polar bear would worry them too much.[/quote]
**************************************
oh yeah, the sonar fence…thanks for reminding me…that makes sense…;) considering Desmond was left alone and the other stations had an abandoned feel to them, doesn’t seem like the others left the circle of the sonar fence very often (not until 815 crashed anyways) and so didn’t need to worry about the bears much…although i’m still confused (BIG surprise i know) because weren’t the bear cages that Sawyer and Kate were locked up in on the small island?[/quote]
+++++
Polar bears are good swimmers.
[quote comment="233051"][quote comment="232939"][quote comment="232935"][quote comment="232931"]why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
Good point. Why would they let them go? I don’t think Ben or Richard ( the hostiles ) were into “silly experiments” with animals, so maybe they were into freeing them. They were probably protected behind the sonar fence and when they traveled past it they have appeared to be elite hunters, so I don’t think a polar bear would worry them too much.[/quote]
**************************************
oh yeah, the sonar fence…thanks for reminding me…that makes sense…;) considering Desmond was left alone and the other stations had an abandoned feel to them, doesn’t seem like the others left the circle of the sonar fence very often (not until 815 crashed anyways) and so didn’t need to worry about the bears much…although i’m still confused (BIG surprise i know) because weren’t the bear cages that Sawyer and Kate were locked up in on the small island?[/quote]
+++++
Polar bears are good swimmers.[/quote]
***************************************
haha, yeah after that post i relaized that, considering their natural habitat, they would have to be good swimmers…;)
[quote comment="233042"]Okay, I didn’t do that quote and reply correctly. But no, I haven’t had much luck today. Any additional hints?[/quote]
See post 903.
Additional hint: Yahoo (apparently) is NOT a good search engine. *G* But Google and answers dot com both seem to be. *G*
: ) P
Ok, so the island creates this energy. Let’s think of it as steam. Dharma builds a “tank” to harness this energy and store it. They have to be careful to release some of the energy periodically so as not to blow the tank. The numbers are entered every 108 minutes to “let off steam.” When the computer is broken Desmond has to turn the fail safe kee to “Blow the hatch” and stop the storage process thereby eliminating the tank. By the time he turns the key extra steam has built up causing the event.
To me this seems different that moving the island with the donkey wheel but still related. It has me wondering about the numbers again though. Dates, times, bible verses. Was any of this discussed before I joined the blog this season.
4 years
8 hours
15 days
16 hours
23 minutes
42 seconds
Don’t know what it would mean but?????
[quote comment="233067"]Ok, so the island creates this energy. Let’s think of it as steam. Dharma builds a “tank” to harness this energy and store it. They have to be careful to release some of the energy periodically so as not to blow the tank. The numbers are entered every 108 minutes to “let off steam.” When the computer is broken Desmond has to turn the fail safe kee to “Blow the hatch” and stop the storage process thereby eliminating the tank. By the time he turns the key extra steam has built up causing the event.
To me this seems different that moving the island with the donkey wheel but still related. It has me wondering about the numbers again though. Dates, times, bible verses. Was any of this discussed before I joined the blog this season.
4 years
8 hours
15 days
16 hours
23 minutes
42 seconds
Don’t know what it would mean but?????[/quote]
********************************
Hey Circus Mom, I’ve been wondering how Circus Dork is? Did she lose interest or did we scare her off? Welcome her back for me!
[quote comment="233067"]Ok, so the island creates this energy. Let’s think of it as steam. Dharma builds a “tank” to harness this energy and store it. They have to be careful to release some of the energy periodically so as not to blow the tank. The numbers are entered every 108 minutes to “let off steam.” When the computer is broken Desmond has to turn the fail safe kee to “Blow the hatch” and stop the storage process thereby eliminating the tank. By the time he turns the key extra steam has built up causing the event.
To me this seems different that moving the island with the donkey wheel but still related. It has me wondering about the numbers again though. Dates, times, bible verses. Was any of this discussed before I joined the blog this season.
4 years
8 hours
15 days
16 hours
23 minutes
42 seconds
Don’t know what it would mean but?????[/quote]
*******************************
okay, so once the key was used, the storage of this ‘energy’ no longer occured, so the tank was no longer necessary nor the scheduled release of said energy…is this what you’re saying? i dig it and thinking about it more leads me to also say this:
both the turning of the key and the turning of the donkey wheel relate to the electromagnetic energy of the island and have to do with using or controlling this energy. Since they both relate to this energy, both caused a ‘purple sky event’…but otherwise there is no real proof that both cause the island to move…as a matter of fact since Ben was on the dock when the key was turned and was fully aware of the event when it happened, but never referred to this event when talking to Locke about moving the island, we can make an educated guess that turning the key DID NOT move the island…
right?
(haha, i feel like i’m back in school
polar bears joking around
tinyurl.com/3gt3kd
funny
[quote comment="233086"]polar bears joking around
tinyurl.com/3gt3kd
funny[/quote]
************************
haha
[quote comment="233082"] but never referred to this event when talking to Locke about moving the island, we can make an educated guess that turning the key DID NOT move the island…
right?
[/quote]
If Ben telling Locke about anything to do with the island is your “proof” that the island did not move when turning the key, I would have to disagree. He never really informed Locke of much about the island.
Also, I am not much of a science person, but we were led to believe that the hatch contained an electromagnetic force that had to be discharged every 108 minutes. The Orchid, however, contained “exotic matter”, at least that is what the tape said ( before Jacob started rewinding it ). Are these 2 different types of energy or the same?
[quote comment="233102"][quote comment="233082"] but never referred to this event when talking to Locke about moving the island, we can make an educated guess that turning the key DID NOT move the island…
right?
[/quote]
If Ben telling Locke about anything to do with the island is your “proof” that the island did not move when turning the key, I would have to disagree. He never really informed Locke of much about the island.
Also, I am not much of a science person, but we were led to believe that the hatch contained an electromagnetic force that had to be discharged every 108 minutes. The Orchid, however, contained “exotic matter”, at least that is what the tape said ( before Jacob started rewinding it ). Are these 2 different types of energy or the same?[/quote]
*****************************************
i agree that Ben’s actions aren’t usually ‘proof’ of anything…but it seems likely (to me anyways) he would’ve mentioned it to Locke in passing while on their way to the Orchid to move the island (again)…if it had just been done so recently…but it’s just a theory…
as for the two different types of energy, i really don’t have a clue…i think i missed the organic energy part…;)
basically i was just thinking that we were all (myself included) kind of jumping to conclusions by thinking that turning the key moved the island just because their was a similar ‘purple sky event’…it’s possible there is another common denominator that causes that phenomenon…like the energy used/released…haha, again, just a theory and probably incorrect…;)
[quote comment="233082"][quote comment="233067"]Ok, so the island creates this energy. Let’s think of it as steam. Dharma builds a “tank” to harness this energy and store it. They have to be careful to release some of the energy periodically so as not to blow the tank. The numbers are entered every 108 minutes to “let off steam.” When the computer is broken Desmond has to turn the fail safe kee to “Blow the hatch” and stop the storage process thereby eliminating the tank. By the time he turns the key extra steam has built up causing the event.
To me this seems different that moving the island with the donkey wheel but still related. It has me wondering about the numbers again though. Dates, times, bible verses. Was any of this discussed before I joined the blog this season.
4 years
8 hours
15 days
16 hours
23 minutes
42 seconds
Don’t know what it would mean but?????[/quote]
*******************************
okay, so once the key was used, the storage of this ‘energy’ no longer occured, so the tank was no longer necessary nor the scheduled release of said energy…is this what you’re saying? i dig it and thinking about it more leads me to also say this:
both the turning of the key and the turning of the donkey wheel relate to the electromagnetic energy of the island and have to do with using or controlling this energy. Since they both relate to this energy, both caused a ‘purple sky event’…but otherwise there is no real proof that both cause the island to move…as a matter of fact since Ben was on the dock when the key was turned and was fully aware of the event when it happened, but never referred to this event when talking to Locke about moving the island, we can make an educated guess that turning the key DID NOT move the island…
right?
(haha, i feel like i’m back in school
[/quote]
+++++++++++++
I think the tank could no longer be controlled so was destroyed and the energy no longer contained. Perhaps this is what aided Widmore in finding the island. I agree, the island wasn’t moved by this event.Same energy source, different Machines for different uses. The same energy source could be what powers the elevator, new othertown and the sonic fence to name a few. More different machines tapping into the power source.
[quote comment="233067"]
4 years
8 hours
15 days
16 hours
23 minutes
42 seconds
Don’t know what it would mean but?????[/quote]
Ah. The Numbers. Unfortuneatly it appears that what the numbers are may never be answered.
[quote comment="233102"][quote comment="233082"] but never referred to this event when talking to Locke about moving the island, we can make an educated guess that turning the key DID NOT move the island…
right?
[/quote]
If Ben telling Locke about anything to do with the island is your “proof” that the island did not move when turning the key, I would have to disagree. He never really informed Locke of much about the island.
Also, I am not much of a science person, but we were led to believe that the hatch contained an electromagnetic force that had to be discharged every 108 minutes. The Orchid, however, contained “exotic matter”, at least that is what the tape said ( before Jacob started rewinding it ). Are these 2 different types of energy or the same?[/quote]
*************************************
sorry, i mis-quoted your post…you said ‘exotic matter’, not ‘organic energy’, haha, been a long day…;)
i guess we would need to know more about the definition of ‘exotic matter’:
“Exotic matter is a hypothetical concept of particle physics. It covers any material which violates one or more classical conditions or is not made of known baryonic particles. Such materials would possess qualities like negative mass or being repelled rather than attracted by gravity. It is used in certain speculative theories, such as on the construction of wormholes. The closest known real representative of exotic matter is a region of pseudo-negative pressure density produced by the Casimir effect.”
hmm, doesn’t really help me any…how about you?
quote]
Ah. The Numbers. Unfortuneatly it appears that what the numbers are may never be answered.[/quote]
********************************
no offense meant what-so-ever but i REALLY hope you’re wrong about this…;)
I think the “organic material” is the source of the “electromagnetic energy.” This is the energy source for everything on the island.
[quote comment="233104"][quote comment="233082"][quote comment="233067"]Ok, so the island creates this energy. Let’s think of it as steam. Dharma builds a “tank” to harness this energy and store it. They have to be careful to release some of the energy periodically so as not to blow the tank. The numbers are entered every 108 minutes to “let off steam.” When the computer is broken Desmond has to turn the fail safe kee to “Blow the hatch” and stop the storage process thereby eliminating the tank. By the time he turns the key extra steam has built up causing the event.
To me this seems different that moving the island with the donkey wheel but still related. It has me wondering about the numbers again though. Dates, times, bible verses. Was any of this discussed before I joined the blog this season.
4 years
8 hours
15 days
16 hours
23 minutes
42 seconds
Don’t know what it would mean but?????[/quote]
*******************************
okay, so once the key was used, the storage of this ‘energy’ no longer occured, so the tank was no longer necessary nor the scheduled release of said energy…is this what you’re saying? i dig it and thinking about it more leads me to also say this:
both the turning of the key and the turning of the donkey wheel relate to the electromagnetic energy of the island and have to do with using or controlling this energy. Since they both relate to this energy, both caused a ‘purple sky event’…but otherwise there is no real proof that both cause the island to move…as a matter of fact since Ben was on the dock when the key was turned and was fully aware of the event when it happened, but never referred to this event when talking to Locke about moving the island, we can make an educated guess that turning the key DID NOT move the island…
right?
(haha, i feel like i’m back in school
[/quote]
+++++++++++++
I think the tank could no longer be controlled so was destroyed and the energy no longer contained. Perhaps this is what aided Widmore in finding the island. I agree, the island wasn’t moved by this event.Same energy source, different Machines for different uses. The same energy source could be what powers the elevator, new othertown and the sonic fence to name a few. More different machines tapping into the power source.[/quote]
*******************************
haha, YES! this is pretty much what i was trying to say, but i didn’t do anywhere near as good of a job of explaining myself…thanks! the energy used, and NOT the action performed are what caused the purple sky incident…;)
[quote comment="233103"]
basically i was just thinking that we were all (myself included) kind of jumping to conclusions by thinking that turning the key moved the island just because their was a similar ‘purple sky event’…it’s possible there is another common denominator that causes that phenomenon…like the energy used/released…haha, again, just a theory and probably incorrect…;)[/quote]
Yes. I agree. Especially since they were 2 different types of energy. I first brought the question up after talking with my brother who is an avid watcher of the show. ( # 628 )
[quote comment="233109"]I think the “organic material” is the source of the “electromagnetic energy.” This is the energy source for everything on the island.[/quote]
I think it was called “exotic matter” found near the Orchid.
[quote comment="233107"]
hmm, doesn’t really help me any…how about you?
[/quote]
Not at all. But if it was the same energy I am sure it would have been stated in the Swan orientaion film as it was in the Orchid film….
My browesr is so slow….
[quote comment="233108"]quote]
Ah. The Numbers. Unfortuneatly it appears that what the numbers are may never be answered.[/quote]
********************************
no offense meant what-so-ever but i REALLY hope you’re wrong about this…;)[/quote]
————-
Me too. Here is the Lostpedia page about the numbers…. scroll down to PRODUCTION NOTES.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Numbers
[quote comment="233111"][quote comment="233103"]
basically i was just thinking that we were all (myself included) kind of jumping to conclusions by thinking that turning the key moved the island just because their was a similar ‘purple sky event’…it’s possible there is another common denominator that causes that phenomenon…like the energy used/released…haha, again, just a theory and probably incorrect…;)[/quote]
Yes. I agree. Especially since they were 2 different types of energy. I first brought the question up after talking with my brother who is an avid watcher of the show. ( # 628 )[/quote]
******************************************
i went back and read that post and it seemed like your brother was thinking that turning the key did move the island (because of the similar purple sky) where as i’m saying the exact opposite…or am i misunderstanding?
[quote comment="233113"][quote comment="233107"]
hmm, doesn’t really help me any…how about you?
[/quote]
Not at all. But if it was the same energy I am sure it would have been stated in the Swan orientaion film as it was in the Orchid film….
My browesr is so slow….[/quote]
***********************************
hmm, i’m not sure about anything in any of those films…including if they are even the complete versions…so more power to you there…haha
[quote comment="233115"][quote comment="233111"][quote comment="233103"]
basically i was just thinking that we were all (myself included) kind of jumping to conclusions by thinking that turning the key moved the island just because their was a similar ‘purple sky event’…it’s possible there is another common denominator that causes that phenomenon…like the energy used/released…haha, again, just a theory and probably incorrect…;)[/quote]
Yes. I agree. Especially since they were 2 different types of energy. I first brought the question up after talking with my brother who is an avid watcher of the show. ( # 628 )[/quote]
******************************************
i went back and read that post and it seemed like your brother was thinking that turning the key did move the island (because of the similar purple sky) where as i’m saying the exact opposite…or am i misunderstanding?[/quote]
As I stated, I was not sure what to make of it and I don’t think I still am. I won’t be convinced either way.
———
I misunderstood you.
To me, the act performed is not the important part of the equation but the ingredients ( energy ) are.
[quote comment="233114"][quote comment="233108"]quote]
Ah. The Numbers. Unfortuneatly it appears that what the numbers are may never be answered.[/quote]
********************************
no offense meant what-so-ever but i REALLY hope you’re wrong about this…;)[/quote]
————-
Me too. Here is the Lostpedia page about the numbers…. scroll down to PRODUCTION NOTES.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Numbers/quote
*********************************
yeah, so i just went and read the production notes and it definitely sounds like they could totally avoid ever explaining the numbers…which is a BUMMER…although i totally get what they are talking about about with Star Wars and the Force…;)
[quote comment="233114"][quote comment="233108"]quote]
Ah. The Numbers. Unfortuneatly it appears that what the numbers are may never be answered.[/quote]
********************************
no offense meant what-so-ever but i REALLY hope you’re wrong about this…;)[/quote]
————-
Me too. Here is the Lostpedia page about the numbers…. scroll down to PRODUCTION NOTES.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Numbers/quote
*****************************
Bummer. I understand what they are trying to say about not wanting to demystify the experience, but I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS MEAN.
[quote comment="233117"][quote comment="233115"][quote comment="233111"][quote comment="233103"]
basically i was just thinking that we were all (myself included) kind of jumping to conclusions by thinking that turning the key moved the island just because their was a similar ‘purple sky event’…it’s possible there is another common denominator that causes that phenomenon…like the energy used/released…haha, again, just a theory and probably incorrect…;)[/quote]
Yes. I agree. Especially since they were 2 different types of energy. I first brought the question up after talking with my brother who is an avid watcher of the show. ( # 628 )[/quote]
******************************************
i went back and read that post and it seemed like your brother was thinking that turning the key did move the island (because of the similar purple sky) where as i’m saying the exact opposite…or am i misunderstanding?[/quote]
As I stated, I was not sure what to make of it and I don’t think I still am. I won’t be convinced either way.
———
I misunderstood you.
To me, the act performed is not the important part of the equation but the ingredients ( energy ) are.[/quote]
*************************************
gotcha…and we’re pretty much on the same page here…;)
OK, lots of great ideas! Don’t be mad, I’m going to respond to several here in this way-too-long post.
Yes ESB, you’re right, the bear cages were on the other island … maybe that’s where the other entrance to the donkey wheel room is. Remember, there was an underwater station there, maybe it went all the way to the other island. Ben and Locke wouldn’t have had time to get a boat and go there, so Ben trashed their “time/space teleport” chamber to get there faster … maybe there’s another wheel under water, and they used GMTA Leah’s trained sharks to turn that one!
The force in the first hatch with the computer had to me more than electromagnetic … because Faraday said Desmond’s problem arose because he was exposed to radiation recently. So that could be an exotic matter pocket, or some other radiation source. either way … Maybe the donkey wheel is like a ships wheel, turning a rudder and steering the island where to go, like Hammer said. And maybe the hatch with the mystery force is like a boat motor, or more accurately, the force is the motor, and the hatch is the clutch. Dharma set up the hatch with the 108 minute timer to keep the island from inadvertently moving (maybe you have to turn the wheel while the “current” is flowing to move .. like an air-boat). Ben wanted the power to move the island so he manipulated Locke into breaking the clutch, forcing Desmond to turn the key. Now with the “motor” running unimpeded, the wheel can steer the island again … maybe
Did turning the key move the island? PJSander raises a good point that the save azimuth changed, but when did the purple-sky event occur, before or after Michael and Walt left? I know one of you guys have this on DVD, could you look it up? If the sky thing happened before, then I’d say turning the key didn’t move the island (or at least didn’t change the azimuth), but now that the clutch is broken, the island can “drift” a little, accounting for the changing safe azimuth. Or maybe the turning the wheel just pulls up the anchor, and the island just goes wherever it wants.
Here’s the question we probably won’t be able to answer until the final episode (if then) Why make it so a person has to type all those numbers in all the time? That could have been so easily automated.
I hope this wasn’t too long, maybe I could have trimmed out a few “maybe”s
[quote comment="233125"]Here’s the question we probably won’t be able to answer until the final episode (if then) Why make it so a person has to type all those numbers in all the time? That could have been so easily automated.
I hope this wasn’t too long, maybe I could have trimmed out a few “maybe”s
[/quote]
Eh, long posts seem to be readily accepted around here. And yours, unlike many, was all your own ideas (rather than quotes of quotes of quotes which tend to confuse me!).
The lack of automation with the number entering and button pushing confuses me, too. Maybe “they” think that machines are too unreliable to do such an important job? Remember, both the “economist” and Jacob eschew modern technology.
Just a thought.
: ) P
Hey GUP.. enter ‘PJSander’ into your google search..
*DING*
(That is my way of changing the subject! LOL)
My kids have been reading Harry Potter. The rule in our house is that you have to read the book before you see the movie. We’ve now watched HP1 and HP2 and I’ve noticed a couple of things.
I know that D&C like to refer to literary things, usually classics. And I suppose books that haven’t been around more than ten years don’t REALLY qualify as classics, but they HAVE mentioned JK Rowling on several occasions.
Harry Potter can UNDERSTAND parseltongue (for the uninitiated, it is “snake speak”) but doesn’t realize that no one else can. He hears “whispers” from what eventually becomes the hidden basilisk and when he asks his friends, they have no idea what he is referencing because they don’t hear it. He is a parselmouth – which is very special and rare – so he understands and can speak to snakes.
What if our islanders are “special” because they CAN hear the whispers? Have ALL of our characters HEARD the whispers? Off the top of my head, I can’t say that I know they all have. Hammer – you may know based on your more extensive work on the whisper theory.
The other thing, which is much more random, but as long as I am bringing up HP, I will mention. The “floo” powder (which allows the wizards and witches to travel by way of the fireplaces) looks suspiciously like the “ash” surrounding Jacob’s cabin and in the vial that Captain Eyeliner offered to young John Locke. This is more likely because of various propmasters having access to similar items, than anything else, but I thought I would throw it out there!
: ) P
stop using my name….i thought this was a lost blog….whats all this harry potter garbage….might as well blog about a similar snd maybe better show called heroes….cag your comment makes absolutely no sense….are you some kind of mechanic….esb lost4ver you 2 need lives….
Whew- found it! Thanks for the assistance…it helps to know that there is a back up just in case. January 2009 is a long ways away.
[quote comment="233130"]
The lack of automation with the number entering and button pushing confuses me, too. Maybe “they” think that machines are too unreliable to do such an important job? Remember, both the “economist” and Jacob eschew modern technology.
Just a thought.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, but it wasn’t Jacob or the economist(I’m not positive that the economist isn’t part of DHARMA) that set up the computer, it was DHARMA.
[quote comment="233080"][quote comment="233067"]Ok, so the island creates this energy. Let’s think of it as steam. Dharma builds a “tank” to harness this energy and store it. They have to be careful to release some of the energy periodically so as not to blow the tank. The numbers are entered every 108 minutes to “let off steam.” When the computer is broken Desmond has to turn the fail safe kee to “Blow the hatch” and stop the storage process thereby eliminating the tank. By the time he turns the key extra steam has built up causing the event.
To me this seems different that moving the island with the donkey wheel but still related. It has me wondering about the numbers again though. Dates, times, bible verses. Was any of this discussed before I joined the blog this season.
4 years
8 hours
15 days
16 hours
23 minutes
42 seconds
Don’t know what it would mean but?????[/quote]
********************************
Hey Circus Mom, I’ve been wondering how Circus Dork is? Did she lose interest or did we scare her off? Welcome her back for me![/quote]
+++++++
School, rehearsal and circus performances have kept her pretty buisy. I think she is overwhelmed by over 900 comments.
[quote comment="233125"]
The force in the first hatch with the computer had to me more than electromagnetic … because Faraday said Desmond’s problem arose because he was exposed to radiation recently.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Point of clarification, Faraday asked if Desmond had been exposed to radiation OR high levels of electromagnetism. Not disagreeing with anything that you stated, except that minor point.
[quote comment="233144"]stop using my name….i thought this was a lost blog….whats all this harry potter garbage….might as well blog about a similar snd maybe better show called heroes….cag your comment makes absolutely no sense….are you some kind of mechanic….esb lost4ver you 2 need lives….[/quote]
*******************************
haha, yes, i do need a life…actually just a job that pays the same but keeps me busier from 9-5 would about cover it…thanks for the suggestion…;)
[quote comment="233144"]stop using my name….i thought this was a lost blog….whats all this harry potter garbage….might as well blog about a similar snd maybe better show called heroes….cag your comment makes absolutely no sense….are you some kind of mechanic….esb lost4ver you 2 need lives….[/quote]
Okay, everyone gets two guesses as to which previous poster is using “Ben F Cavier” as his or her new ID.
Mine, based on the attitude and lack of punctuation is
1) Bobola
2) Omar.
Any other guesses?
: ) P
[quote comment="233261"][quote comment="233130"]
The lack of automation with the number entering and button pushing confuses me, too. Maybe “they” think that machines are too unreliable to do such an important job? Remember, both the “economist” and Jacob eschew modern technology.
Just a thought.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, but it wasn’t Jacob or the economist(I’m not positive that the economist isn’t part of DHARMA) that set up the computer, it was DHARMA.[/quote]
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Fair enough. I am still willing to leave the door open though. That Widmore / Ben / the economist / DHARMA were all on the “same side” at some point. You know, like in the cartoons from when we were kids… Three scientists all working to find a cure for world hunger, and one gets power hungry and his evil side comes through and eventually, he’s selling his science secrets for money and uses that to change the weather and finally, take over the world!
: ) P
DING! DING! DING!
Congratulations PJ. Post 1000.
1000 posts in 2 weeks. 500 posts/per week. APPROX. 30 weeks left. 500 X 30 = way too much blogging.
Ben F Cravier – You may be right. I also enjoy the show heroes. Is there a heroesblog.net? Could also be ANON, he seems to take potshots at me, but just me so maybe not.
[quote comment="233310"][quote comment="233261"][quote comment="233130"]
The lack of automation with the number entering and button pushing confuses me, too. Maybe “they” think that machines are too unreliable to do such an important job? Remember, both the “economist” and Jacob eschew modern technology.
Just a thought.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, but it wasn’t Jacob or the economist(I’m not positive that the economist isn’t part of DHARMA) that set up the computer, it was DHARMA.[/quote]
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Fair enough. I am still willing to leave the door open though. That Widmore / Ben / the economist / DHARMA were all on the “same side” at some point. You know, like in the cartoons from when we were kids… Three scientists all working to find a cure for world hunger, and one gets power hungry and his evil side comes through and eventually, he’s selling his science secrets for money and uses that to change the weather and finally, take over the world!
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++
Sure, why not?
Personally, I’m going to stick with DHARMA was always seen as invaders. The Others tried “fighting” them off at first hence the nick name Hostiles. But eventually found Ben and used him as in insider to defeat DHARMA. I like the loose theory that Jacob and Widmore might be twins and Widmore is the “evil twin” that eventually invested in DHARMA to get to the island.
[quote comment="233303"][quote comment="233144"]stop using my name….i thought this was a lost blog….whats all this harry potter garbage….might as well blog about a similar snd maybe better show called heroes….cag your comment makes absolutely no sense….are you some kind of mechanic….esb lost4ver you 2 need lives….[/quote]
Okay, everyone gets two guesses as to which previous poster is using “Ben F Cavier” as his or her new ID.
Mine, based on the attitude and lack of punctuation is
1) Bobola
2) Omar.
Any other guesses?
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++
What is funny is ESB types the same way, but why would he rip himself?
LOL
[quote comment="233261"][quote comment="233130"]
The lack of automation with the number entering and button pushing confuses me, too. Maybe “they” think that machines are too unreliable to do such an important job? Remember, both the “economist” and Jacob eschew modern technology.
Just a thought.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, but it wasn’t Jacob or the economist(I’m not positive that the economist isn’t part of DHARMA) that set up the computer, it was DHARMA.[/quote]
——–
It is all very confusing to me. The control of the island.
1. Dharma is on the island and the “hostile’s” leader orders the purge. ( Not Ben )
2. Ben stole the island from Widmore “like a rat”.
3. If Ben came in control after the purge, that would mean that Widmore was involved with the DI, correct?
4. Who is the leader that orders the “purge”?
It’s all very confusing to me.
The economist. Did Sayid ever complete the mission and get to the economist or did he move on to the next name that Ben gave him? My guess for the name that Ben gave him at the end of the ECONOMIST, which I am sure aomeone has said elsewhere, is Jeremy Bentham. And as we saw at the end of TNPLH, he succeeded in his mission.
[quote comment="233303"][quote comment="233144"]stop using my name….i thought this was a lost blog….whats all this harry potter garbage….might as well blog about a similar snd maybe better show called heroes….cag your comment makes absolutely no sense….are you some kind of mechanic….esb lost4ver you 2 need lives….[/quote]
Okay, everyone gets two guesses as to which previous poster is using “Ben F Cavier” as his or her new ID.
Mine, based on the attitude and lack of punctuation is
1) Bobola
2) Omar.
Any other guesses?
: ) P[/quote]
——-
Bobola is kind enough to use proper punctuation in some of his posts and CAPS to.
[quote comment="232938"][quote comment="232933"][quote comment="232931"]in my opinion the theory that the bears were used to turn the wheel and move the island and that is how one ended up in the Sahara desert seems alot more likely than the whole island moving to the Sahara desert and a bear just wondering off of it…so i’m gonna vote for the DI training polar bears to turn the wheel so that when they had to move the island, no one had to leave, they just had to sacrifice a bear…but then the questions are why weren’t Ben and the Others using them for the same thing?/how did the bears get loose?/why exactly are they ‘allowed’ to run wild on the island? I mean, you’d think the Others would’ve killed or recaptured them or Rousseau would’ve killed them…if for no other reason, then just to avoid getting eaten when you were out and about…;)[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
I tend to agree even though it was my idea about the island being in the desert.
It makes sense that they might use the bears to turn the wheel, do you figure Alpert’s group just did it themselves?
Now someone suggested that the computer replaced the turning of the wheel. Where I am LOST is what exactly did turning the key do? The purple sky event was similar to moving the island.
If turning the wheel = 108 = moving the island and purple sky = moving the island AND turning the key = purple sky, then did turning the key move the island?
I was hoping the turning the key stopped island and would support DOCH’s theory of all the timelines colliding. But it doesn’t seem like that’s what happened?[/quote]
****************************************
i honestly don’t know what to think about all of this stuff…i mean if turning the key moved the island, then what was the deal with having to enter the numbers every 108 minutes? did that keep the island from moving? and when the key was turned and the whole hatch ‘blew up’, why all of a sudden did the numbers not have to be entered anymore? i could totally see if the wheel was the old fashioned way of moving the island and the key/computer the modernized way, but the key/computer way could apparently only be used once…sheesh…there’s too much we don’t know about this and just trying to type it confused the heck out of me…;)[/quote]
***************************************
Ok, so I get that they are two different types of energy…but the Swan video was hidden in a book called The Turn of the Screw…could be a donkey wheel reference…also on the Swan video it talks about how an incident occurred that necessitated the pushing of the button. What if that incident also has something to do with the reason the polar bears are running loose?
[quote comment="233347"][quote comment="233303"][quote comment="233144"]stop using my name….i thought this was a lost blog….whats all this harry potter garbage….might as well blog about a similar snd maybe better show called heroes….cag your comment makes absolutely no sense….are you some kind of mechanic….esb lost4ver you 2 need lives….[/quote]
Okay, everyone gets two guesses as to which previous poster is using “Ben F Cavier” as his or her new ID.
Mine, based on the attitude and lack of punctuation is
1) Bobola
2) Omar.
Any other guesses?
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++
What is funny is ESB types the same way, but why would he rip himself?
LOL[/quote]
***************************************
haha, i DO type that way, don’t i? too funny…wasn’t me tho, i don’t post with that kind of attitude, joking or not…;) besides i like my ESB ID better than Ben F Cavier ID and i definitely wouldn’t rip myself, haha
lost4ever: did you put forth the theory in an earlier post that maybe Sayid killed Bentham/Locke? VERY interesting…funny, because when Sayid showed up to collect Hurley from the asylum, i had a brief thought that maybe he was there to dispose of Hurley…Sayid’s character has definitely become darker and scarier…he kills people like he’s swatting flies…;)
[quote comment="233383"][quote comment="233347"][quote comment="233303"][quote comment="233144"]stop using my name….i thought this was a lost blog….whats all this harry potter garbage….might as well blog about a similar snd maybe better show called heroes….cag your comment makes absolutely no sense….are you some kind of mechanic….esb lost4ver you 2 need lives….[/quote]
Okay, everyone gets two guesses as to which previous poster is using “Ben F Cavier” as his or her new ID.
Mine, based on the attitude and lack of punctuation is
1) Bobola
2) Omar.
Any other guesses?
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++
What is funny is ESB types the same way, but why would he rip himself?
LOL[/quote]
***************************************
haha, i DO type that way, don’t i? too funny…wasn’t me tho, i don’t post with that kind of attitude, joking or not…;) besides i like my ESB ID better than Ben F Cavier ID and i definitely wouldn’t rip myself, haha
lost4ever: did you put forth the theory in an earlier post that maybe Sayid killed Bentham/Locke? VERY interesting…funny, because when Sayid showed up to collect Hurley from the asylum, i had a brief thought that maybe he was there to dispose of Hurley…Sayid’s character has definitely become darker and scarier…he kills people like he’s swatting flies…;)[/quote]
*****************
I thought about that too when he told Hurley that “they said it was a suicide”…who else could make it look like a suicide than a trained killer like Sayid? Very interesting. Although, I still think the Economist is Sun.
[quote comment="233387"]
I thought about that too when he told Hurley that “they said it was a suicide”…who else could make it look like a suicide than a trained killer like Sayid? Very interesting. Although, I still think the Economist is Sun.[/quote]
I also thought about Hurley and that is very plausible as is Sun being the Economist. Maybe Ben’s goal for the Economist ( SUN ), was not to kill her, just to make sure that she was aware that someone was after her. To get the ball rolling, in a sense, on the return mission.
[quote comment="233387"] Although, I still think the Economist is Sun.[/quote]
Quite likely, except the comment about the economist not liking technology?
I think that Ben F. Cavier is Omar.
[quote comment="233398"]
I also thought about Hurley and that is very plausible as is Sun being the Economist. Maybe Ben’s goal for the Economist ( SUN ), was not to kill her, just to make sure that she was aware that someone was after her. To get the ball rolling, in a sense, on the return mission.[/quote]
++++++++++++
If so, I’d say “message received” since she tried to have Sayid killed.
[quote comment="233398"][quote comment="233387"]
I thought about that too when he told Hurley that “they said it was a suicide”…who else could make it look like a suicide than a trained killer like Sayid? Very interesting. Although, I still think the Economist is Sun.[/quote]
I also thought about Hurley and that is very plausible as is Sun being the Economist. Maybe Ben’s goal for the Economist ( SUN ), was not to kill her, just to make sure that she was aware that someone was after her. To get the ball rolling, in a sense, on the return mission.[/quote]
********************
That’s kind of what I thought, see post 299.
Hammer, I’m not sure about the technology thing though…and also not sure why she would try to have Sayid killed unless she changes and finds out something from Widmore that makes her want to help him?
[quote comment="233407"]If so, I’d say “message received” since she tried to have Sayid killed.[/quote]
Okay, I think I missed something! Sun tried to have Sayid killed? I know she met with Widmore, but that was a very cryptic meeting. Was there more to it that I missed?
: ) P
[quote comment="233426"][quote comment="233407"]If so, I’d say “message received” since she tried to have Sayid killed.[/quote]
Okay, I think I missed something! Sun tried to have Sayid killed? I know she met with Widmore, but that was a very cryptic meeting. Was there more to it that I missed?
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++
Yes you did! We are ASSUMING that Sun is the economist….just theorizing.
Is there any evidence or clues that are pointing to Sun being the Economist? Or is this strictly a guess-theory? Because I honestly have a hard time believing Sun and Sayid would try to kill each other. Or that Sun would kill Nadia or have her killed or try to harm any of the survivors left behind on the island. Aren’t these the things Ben uses to enlist Sayid? Also, I agree that, while Sun did approach Widmore, the meeting was enigmatic at best and as she walked away i got the impression she had a secret agenda and was maybe trying to manipulate Widmore or set some kind of ‘trap’ for him…
[quote comment="233427"]Yes you did! We are ASSUMING that Sun is the economist….just theorizing.[/quote]
A-ha. Okay. Well going with the theory that Sun *is* the economist (which honestly, I think is a stretch… unless Ilsa had never met her employer and she alluded the fact that she had), is it possible that she told Elsa to shoot the guy, not KNOWING he was Sayid? After all, Sayid didn’t know Sun was the “guy” he was after.
Ben, Ben, Ben… where do your loyalties lie?
LOL
: ) P
OK, I’ll play the next who’s in the coffin game. My first thought was Hammer or Omar also and I also thought Omar on gut feeling but Omar hasn’t posted in 13 days.
My new guess is RGS.
[quote comment="233428"]Is there any evidence or clues that are pointing to Sun being the Economist? Or is this strictly a guess-theory? Because I honestly have a hard time believing Sun and Sayid would try to kill each other. Or that Sun would kill Nadia or have her killed or try to harm any of the survivors left behind on the island. Aren’t these the things Ben uses to enlist Sayid? Also, I agree that, while Sun did approach Widmore, the meeting was enigmatic at best and as she walked away i got the impression she had a secret agenda and was maybe trying to manipulate Widmore or set some kind of ‘trap’ for him…[/quote]
Nope, no evidence or clues at all…strictly a guess, and probably not a very good one!!
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore and who says the Economist and Widmore are working together? I also don’t think the Economist is necessarily trying to harm the survivors, we don’t really know what his/her purpose is, do we? I mean, all we really know is that they don’t like technology and they gave the orders to kill Sayid. Doesn’t mean whoever it is knew that it was Sayid that they were giving the command to kill.
I could see it as the Economist (being Sun in this extremely loose and full of holes theory) is somehow working against Ben, possibly as revenge for Jin’s death or a reason we haven’t seen yet…she’s working with Widmore, but for her own reasons, not because she necessarily agrees with or supports him…and Sayid has to kill the people around her because they all have Widmore ties, I don’t think even he knows who the Economist is, but Ben does and he’s trying to get her alone and back to the island so he’s using Sayid to pick off the people around her.
But there have been several theories as to who the Economist is…Widmore, Penny, Locke…just to name a few. Maybe I’ll change my vote and go for Frank as the economist…haha, wouldn’t that be a laugh!!
[quote comment="233431"][quote comment="233427"]Yes you did! We are ASSUMING that Sun is the economist….just theorizing.[/quote]
A-ha. Okay. Well going with the theory that Sun *is* the economist (which honestly, I think is a stretch… unless Ilsa had never met her employer and she alluded the fact that she had), is it possible that she told Elsa to shoot the guy, not KNOWING he was Sayid? After all, Sayid didn’t know Sun was the “guy” he was after.
Ben, Ben, Ben… where do your loyalties lie?
LOL
: ) P[/quote]
*******************************************
I think it’s a stretch too but these are good points regardless in my opinion…;)
[quote comment="233433"][quote comment="233428"]Is there any evidence or clues that are pointing to Sun being the Economist? Or is this strictly a guess-theory? Because I honestly have a hard time believing Sun and Sayid would try to kill each other. Or that Sun would kill Nadia or have her killed or try to harm any of the survivors left behind on the island. Aren’t these the things Ben uses to enlist Sayid? Also, I agree that, while Sun did approach Widmore, the meeting was enigmatic at best and as she walked away i got the impression she had a secret agenda and was maybe trying to manipulate Widmore or set some kind of ‘trap’ for him…[/quote]
Nope, no evidence or clues at all…strictly a guess, and probably not a very good one!!
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore and who says the Economist and Widmore are working together? I also don’t think the Economist is necessarily trying to harm the survivors, we don’t really know what his/her purpose is, do we? I mean, all we really know is that they don’t like technology and they gave the orders to kill Sayid. Doesn’t mean whoever it is knew that it was Sayid that they were giving the command to kill.
I could see it as the Economist (being Sun in this extremely loose and full of holes theory) is somehow working against Ben, possibly as revenge for Jin’s death or a reason we haven’t seen yet…she’s working with Widmore, but for her own reasons, not because she necessarily agrees with or supports him…and Sayid has to kill the people around her because they all have Widmore ties, I don’t think even he knows who the Economist is, but Ben does and he’s trying to get her alone and back to the island so he’s using Sayid to pick off the people around her.
But there have been several theories as to who the Economist is…Widmore, Penny, Locke…just to name a few. Maybe I’ll change my vote and go for Frank as the economist…haha, wouldn’t that be a laugh!![/quote]
*****************************************
okay, i gotcha…the only reason i was associating the Economist with Nadia’s death or trying to harm the people back on the island is because those are the things that Ben uses to enlist Sayid…but you have to at least consider the possibility that Ben isn’t being entirely truthful with Sayid…BIG stretch, i know…;)
Locke could maybe make sense, because the real Jeremy Bentham was considered an economist and it ties in with L4E’s thoery that maybe Sayid killed Bentham/Locke…but all that seems like kind of a stretch too…
[quote comment="233442"][quote comment="233433"][quote comment="233428"]Is there any evidence or clues that are pointing to Sun being the Economist? Or is this strictly a guess-theory? Because I honestly have a hard time believing Sun and Sayid would try to kill each other. Or that Sun would kill Nadia or have her killed or try to harm any of the survivors left behind on the island. Aren’t these the things Ben uses to enlist Sayid? Also, I agree that, while Sun did approach Widmore, the meeting was enigmatic at best and as she walked away i got the impression she had a secret agenda and was maybe trying to manipulate Widmore or set some kind of ‘trap’ for him…[/quote]
Nope, no evidence or clues at all…strictly a guess, and probably not a very good one!!
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore and who says the Economist and Widmore are working together? I also don’t think the Economist is necessarily trying to harm the survivors, we don’t really know what his/her purpose is, do we? I mean, all we really know is that they don’t like technology and they gave the orders to kill Sayid. Doesn’t mean whoever it is knew that it was Sayid that they were giving the command to kill.
I could see it as the Economist (being Sun in this extremely loose and full of holes theory) is somehow working against Ben, possibly as revenge for Jin’s death or a reason we haven’t seen yet…she’s working with Widmore, but for her own reasons, not because she necessarily agrees with or supports him…and Sayid has to kill the people around her because they all have Widmore ties, I don’t think even he knows who the Economist is, but Ben does and he’s trying to get her alone and back to the island so he’s using Sayid to pick off the people around her.
But there have been several theories as to who the Economist is…Widmore, Penny, Locke…just to name a few. Maybe I’ll change my vote and go for Frank as the economist…haha, wouldn’t that be a laugh!![/quote]
*****************************************
okay, i gotcha…the only reason i was associating the Economist with Nadia’s death or trying to harm the people back on the island is because those are the things that Ben uses to enlist Sayid…but you have to at least consider the possibility that Ben isn’t being entirely truthful with Sayid…BIG stretch, i know…;)
Locke could maybe make sense, because the real Jeremy Bentham was considered an economist and it ties in with L4E’s thoery that maybe Sayid killed Bentham/Locke…but all that seems like kind of a stretch too…[/quote]
+++++++++++
OK, Now I am buying Locke as the econimist. Or at least someone who lives on the island. That rules Sun out. Remember, the econimist only shows up once or twice a year for a short time. Perhaps the reluctance to use new technology is due to some problem with the mode of travel or being from a different time so as now to be up on the technology. That would place Jacob before electricity.
Also, new technology could interfeer with the travel.
[quote]
+++++++++++
OK, Now I am buying Locke as the econimist. Or at least someone who lives on the island. That rules Sun out. Remember, the econimist only shows up once or twice a year for a short time. Perhaps the reluctance to use new technology is due to some problem with the mode of travel or being from a different time so as now to be up on the technology. That would place Jacob before electricity.
Also, new technology could interfeer with the travel.[/quote]
**************************************
i like the thinking except that we’re told the Economist only comes to Berlin once or twice a year by Elsa, and she was obviously under-cover and most likely lying about everything…
Also, if it is Locke, where did he meet Elsa and how did she end up working for him…could we assume then that the Others, whom Locke is now the leader of, have all kinds of ‘agents’ off the island? And why would Ben now be working against Locke and the Others?
[quote comment="233428"]Is there any evidence or clues that are pointing to Sun being the Economist? Or is this strictly a guess-theory? Because I honestly have a hard time believing Sun and Sayid would try to kill each other. Or that Sun would kill Nadia or have her killed or try to harm any of the survivors left behind on the island. Aren’t these the things Ben uses to enlist Sayid? Also, I agree that, while Sun did approach Widmore, the meeting was enigmatic at best and as she walked away i got the impression she had a secret agenda and was maybe trying to manipulate Widmore or set some kind of ‘trap’ for him…[/quote]
Just a guess IMO….but I totally disagree. IF Sayid believes that Widmore’s group killed Nadia, and we already know Sun is actively looking for revenge for Jin….then both would be willing to kill each other. Before the island they were strangers, there is no loyalty.
I’m not totally buying that the story is going this way, but it is plausible.
Hey, I know I already asked this…but do we know if anyone has decoded the pictures on the stone in the donkey wheel room?
I just re-watched the last 15 minutes and have some ideas.
Hurley asked Sayid “why are we doing this dude, going to another island 3000 miles away.” Sayid answere “It’s the only way to protect them.” We seem to have been assuming it was those left behind on the island but I think he is refering to Aaron and Ji. Widmore dosn’t know exactly who was on the island and even if he planted the fake plane they could have escaped from the real one. The story works for the public but even more so for Widmore.
Kate has to claim Aaron as her own so Widmore won’t know he was Clairs baby. Claire was put on that plane for a reason. Kate may have just been collateral damage.
I do’t think Ben plans on returning to the island with the O6. He keept saying “you all have to go back.”
I think Locke is the visitor that Charlie told Hurley Jack would be getting.
I think Widmore may have moved the island in the past and he can’t go back himself either. He is trying to find it and gain some power. Now ben is in the same position.
I’ve almost got the Ben/Widmore conversation figured out in relation to this but I need some good debate to clarify my thoughts.
[quote comment="233265"][quote comment="233080"][quote comment="233067"][/quote]
********************************
Hey Circus Mom, I’ve been wondering how Circus Dork is? Did she lose interest or did we scare her off? Welcome her back for me![/quote]
+++++++
School, rehearsal and circus performances have kept her pretty buisy. I think she is overwhelmed by over 900 comments.[/quote]
*************************
Interesting! Send her over to the little island. Maybe it would be less intimidating there. I would like to hear about the circus performances.
[quote comment="233448"][quote comment="233265"][quote comment="233080"][quote comment="233067"][/quote]
********************************
Hey Circus Mom, I’ve been wondering how Circus Dork is? Did she lose interest or did we scare her off? Welcome her back for me![/quote]
+++++++
School, rehearsal and circus performances have kept her pretty buisy. I think she is overwhelmed by over 900 comments.[/quote]
*************************
Interesting! Send her over to the little island. Maybe it would be less intimidating there. I would like to hear about the circus performances.[/quote]
++++++++++
I’ll send her over when she gets home from school.
[quote comment="233448"][quote comment="233265"][quote comment="233080"][quote comment="233067"][/quote]
********************************
Hey Circus Mom, I’ve been wondering how Circus Dork is? Did she lose interest or did we scare her off? Welcome her back for me![/quote]
+++++++
School, rehearsal and circus performances have kept her pretty buisy. I think she is overwhelmed by over 900 comments.[/quote]
*************************
Interesting! Send her over to the little island. Maybe it would be less intimidating there. I would like to hear about the circus performances.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++
I’ll send her over when she gets home from school.
[quote comment="233447"]I think Locke is the visitor that Charlie told Hurley Jack would be getting.[/quote]
Interesting thought…any reason why you think Christian showed up too?
I still think something’s going on with Jacob and Christian, I don’t think they are the same person and I think it’s weird that lately Jacob hasn’t been in his cabin but CS has…like he’s taken over or something…I think that’s why Jacob said “help me” to Locke.
Maybe Hurley’s message to Jack about how “you’re not supposed to raise him” didn’t refer to Aaron but to Locke? Not that I think Jack could raise him from the dead or anything, but maybe in more of a “don’t bring his body back to the island” sense?
[quote comment="233443"]
OK, Now I am buying Locke as the econimist. Or at least someone who lives on the island. That rules Sun out. Remember, the econimist only shows up once or twice a year for a short time.
[/quote]
I think we are forgetting there are 2 different people Sayid and Ben are after in “the Economist.” The first, the Economist, the second is at the end of the show in the Vet’s office.
BEN: Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid? I have another name for you.
SAYID: But they know I’m after them now.
BEN: Good.
I guess the question is who are Sayid’s friends?
[quote comment="233456"]
I still think something’s going on with Jacob and Christian, I don’t think they are the same person and I think it’s weird that lately Jacob hasn’t been in his cabin but CS has…like he’s taken over or something…I think that’s why Jacob said “help me” to Locke.
[/quote]
You might have something there. Claire giving up Aaron because of CS, Claire appearing in Kate’s dream to keep him off the island. CS maybe be on Widmore’s zombie team? The cabin moved away from the ash circle, why? I like this because I just wasn’t understanding why Kate is fighting going back and keeping Aaron off the island and why Claire wouldn’t want him back on the island either.
[quote comment="233447"]
I do’t think Ben plans on returning to the island with the O6. He keept saying “you all have to go back.”
[/quote]
Respectfully disagree with that point. He actually says
BEN: Jack… I said, all of you. We’re gonna have to bring him, too.
I thought that he implied he was going back with them, but he could have meant we ( Ben and Jack ) have to take him out of this funeral parlor.
[quote comment="233457"][quote comment="233443"]
OK, Now I am buying Locke as the econimist. Or at least someone who lives on the island. That rules Sun out. Remember, the econimist only shows up once or twice a year for a short time.
[/quote]
I think we are forgetting there are 2 different people Sayid and Ben are after in “the Economist.” The first, the Economist, the second is at the end of the show in the Vet’s office.
BEN: Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid? I have another name for you.
SAYID: But they know I’m after them now.
BEN: Good.
I guess the question is who are Sayid’s friends?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
Yeah, I am thinking Sun isn’t the economist. I am more likley to believe she is the “new name”.
I am Ben F Cavier
[quote comment="233456"][quote comment="233447"]I think Locke is the visitor that Charlie told Hurley Jack would be getting.[/quote]
Interesting thought…any reason why you think Christian showed up too?
I still think something’s going on with Jacob and Christian, I don’t think they are the same person and I think it’s weird that lately Jacob hasn’t been in his cabin but CS has…like he’s taken over or something…I think that’s why Jacob said “help me” to Locke.
Maybe Hurley’s message to Jack about how “you’re not supposed to raise him” didn’t refer to Aaron but to Locke? Not that I think Jack could raise him from the dead or anything, but maybe in more of a “don’t bring his body back to the island” sense?[/quote]
*****************************************
We kind of already know that Jacob and CS are not the same person/thing, don’t we? When asked by Locke if he was Jacob, CS said ‘no, but I can speak for him’. I like the thinking behind Jacob saying help me tho. Maybe Jacob IS being used and/or held prisoner…
And you could be right about Jack/Hurley/Aaron/Locke but in my opinion, he is actually referring to Aaron…
[quote comment="233457"][quote comment="233443"]
OK, Now I am buying Locke as the econimist. Or at least someone who lives on the island. That rules Sun out. Remember, the econimist only shows up once or twice a year for a short time.
[/quote]
I think we are forgetting there are 2 different people Sayid and Ben are after in “the Economist.” The first, the Economist, the second is at the end of the show in the Vet’s office.
BEN: Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid? I have another name for you.
SAYID: But they know I’m after them now.
BEN: Good.
I guess the question is who are Sayid’s friends?[/quote]
*****************************************
i think the final goal is to get to the Economist…maybe Ben has another name for Sayid because Elsa (the previous name given to Sayid) is dead and Sayid cannot get to the Economist through her now…
[quote comment="233459"][quote comment="233447"]
I do’t think Ben plans on returning to the island with the O6. He keept saying “you all have to go back.”
[/quote]
Respectfully disagree with that point. He actually says
BEN: Jack… I said, all of you. We’re gonna have to bring him, too.
I thought that he implied he was going back with them, but he could have meant we ( Ben and Jack ) have to take him out of this funeral parlor.[/quote]
**************************************
yeah, i have a very hard time believing Ben is gonna miss out on that little party….as has been said before, i just think he probably needs to O6 (actually more if you count Walt, Desmond, Lapidus & Locke) to get back himself…
[quote comment="233460"][quote comment="233457"][quote comment="233443"]
OK, Now I am buying Locke as the econimist. Or at least someone who lives on the island. That rules Sun out. Remember, the econimist only shows up once or twice a year for a short time.
[/quote]
I think we are forgetting there are 2 different people Sayid and Ben are after in “the Economist.” The first, the Economist, the second is at the end of the show in the Vet’s office.
BEN: Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid? I have another name for you.
SAYID: But they know I’m after them now.
BEN: Good.
I guess the question is who are Sayid’s friends?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
Yeah, I am thinking Sun isn’t the economist. I am more likley to believe she is the “new name”.[/quote]
+++++++++
Sun could be the new name but Ben had said “All of you have to go back.”
[quote comment="233465"][/quote]
+++++++++
Sun could be the new name but Ben had said “All of you have to go back.”[/quote]
+++++++++++
Just for debate…the new name doesn’t have to be killed, Ben sent Sayid to Hugo……
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of them have to go back, including Locke.
Who else was on the island before with Christian and had to go back on flight 815???
Libby, Cindy, who else could have been there before? Eko had a connection with the island. Maiby the mom of Emma and her brother?
Was the list a list of those who had been there before and “proven themselves” (necessary).
Who else will end up on the island when the O6 return?
[quote comment="233432"]OK, I’ll play the next who’s in the coffin game. My first thought was Hammer or Omar also and I also thought Omar on gut feeling but Omar hasn’t posted in 13 days.
My new guess is RGS.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^
*Hand over mouth gasping*. I’ll chalk up this guess as you being Lost-dramatic. You posting my name hit me the same way as seeing Locke in the coffin…and I ended up clutching my heart. Though my post does come a few posts after the “mystery” person I would like to think I am a little more clever and indirect when I make my lil jokes, but I offer my alibi and an alternative solution.
That particular post looks like it came in around 3:30 a.m. EST, it therefore was early Thursday morning EST, I’m gonna assume, this person posted at a more reasonable 12:30 am PST. Evidence suggests that I have posted during, or shortly after the end of an episode’s airing…EST. So I’m on the East Coast. My post coming right after yours sequentially, came as I arrived to my office, killing some early morning time, meaning I’d be operating on less than 3-4 hrs sleep (takes me hour from door to door to get to work in the morning) and I frankly I need my “beauty” rest or the paparazzi will make thousands of dollars off pics of me looking tired. 3 initial bloggers, have an unwritten rule about attacking other 3 letter bloggers…we don’t do it, and that poster put CAG and ESB in there.
Finally, I am a Harry Potter fan (though I’d never go to a movie by myself for fear of being arrested as a potential pedophile) so I could not bad mouth the lil Wizard hero.
*Breaking out my Trusty Rusty Internet Sleuthing for Dummies Detective Guide* it seems that the poster has a genuine dislike of Harry Potter books. That eliminates PJ, (who incidentally is the only regular I’ve even come close to making derogatory comments toward, and that’s only because he’s a great sport) and Hammer, because the poster actually spelled the anagram correctly. I’ll try a different approach before making my guess.
Ben do you think Jin survived the explosion on the boat? That boat seemed to have exploded to smithereens. Why do you think they spent a week on Penny’s rescue boat. (There, there’s my cheese).
[quote comment="233467"][quote comment="233465"][/quote]
+++++++++
Sun could be the new name but Ben had said “All of you have to go back.”[/quote]
+++++++++++
Just for debate…the new name doesn’t have to be killed, Ben sent Sayid to Hugo……[/quote]
++++++++++I won’t debate that. You could be right.
[quote comment="233469"][quote comment="233432"]OK, I’ll play the next who’s in the coffin game. My first thought was Hammer or Omar also and I also thought Omar on gut feeling but Omar hasn’t posted in 13 days.
My new guess is RGS.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^
*Hand over mouth gasping*. I’ll chalk up this guess as you being Lost-dramatic. You posting my name hit me the same way as seeing Locke in the coffin…and I ended up clutching my heart. Though my post does come a few posts after the “mystery” person I would like to think I am a little more clever and indirect when I make my lil jokes, but I offer my alibi and an alternative solution.
That particular post looks like it came in around 3:30 a.m. EST, it therefore was early Thursday morning EST, I’m gonna assume, this person posted at a more reasonable 12:30 am PST. Evidence suggests that I have posted during, or shortly after the end of an episode’s airing…EST. So I’m on the East Coast. My post coming right after yours sequentially, came as I arrived to my office, killing some early morning time, meaning I’d be operating on less than 3-4 hrs sleep (takes me hour from door to door to get to work in the morning) and I frankly I need my “beauty” rest or the paparazzi will make thousands of dollars off pics of me looking tired. 3 initial bloggers, have an unwritten rule about attacking other 3 letter bloggers…we don’t do it, and that poster put CAG and ESB in there.
Finally, I am a Harry Potter fan (though I’d never go to a movie by myself for fear of being arrested as a potential pedophile) so I could not bad mouth the lil Wizard hero.
*Breaking out my Trusty Rusty Internet Sleuthing for Dummies Detective Guide* it seems that the poster has a genuine dislike of Harry Potter books. That eliminates PJ, (who incidentally is the only regular I’ve even come close to making derogatory comments toward, and that’s only because he’s a great sport) and Hammer, because the poster actually spelled the anagram correctly. I’ll try a different approach before making my guess.
Ben do you think Jin survived the explosion on the boat? That boat seemed to have exploded to smithereens. Why do you think they spent a week on Penny’s rescue boat. (There, there’s my cheese).[/quote]
****************************************
hahahaha! dig it!
[quote comment="233445"][quote comment="233428"]Is there any evidence or clues that are pointing to Sun being the Economist? Or is this strictly a guess-theory? Because I honestly have a hard time believing Sun and Sayid would try to kill each other. Or that Sun would kill Nadia or have her killed or try to harm any of the survivors left behind on the island. Aren’t these the things Ben uses to enlist Sayid? Also, I agree that, while Sun did approach Widmore, the meeting was enigmatic at best and as she walked away i got the impression she had a secret agenda and was maybe trying to manipulate Widmore or set some kind of ‘trap’ for him…[/quote]
Just a guess IMO….but I totally disagree. IF Sayid believes that Widmore’s group killed Nadia, and we already know Sun is actively looking for revenge for Jin….then both would be willing to kill each other. Before the island they were strangers, there is no loyalty.
I’m not totally buying that the story is going this way, but it is plausible.[/quote]
*****************************************
i get what your saying and it totally makes sense, but based on what we currently know, i still say those two wouldn’t knowingly want to kill each other..they were both part of the O6 and have a ‘connection’ now…it’s far more likely to me that they BOTH would want to kill Jack, haha
[quote comment="233469"] Hammer, because the poster actually spelled the anagram correctly.
[/quote]
How rude! JK, I can take it too.
[quote comment="233467"][quote comment="233465"][/quote]
+++++++++
Sun could be the new name but Ben had said “All of you have to go back.”[/quote]
+++++++++++
Just for debate…the new name doesn’t have to be killed, Ben sent Sayid to Hugo……[/quote]
——–
The person doesn’t have to be alive either, like Locke.
[quote comment="233461"]I am Ben F Cavier[/quote]
I thought you were Dr. Marvin Candle.
[quote comment="233470"][quote comment="233467"][quote comment="233465"][/quote]
+++++++++
Sun could be the new name but Ben had said “All of you have to go back.”[/quote]
+++++++++++
Just for debate…the new name doesn’t have to be killed, Ben sent Sayid to Hugo……[/quote]
++++++++++I won’t debate that. You could be right.[/quote]
********************************
hmmm…yes, this is an interesting point…
[quote comment="233474"][quote comment="233467"][quote comment="233465"][/quote]
+++++++++
Sun could be the new name but Ben had said “All of you have to go back.”[/quote]
+++++++++++
Just for debate…the new name doesn’t have to be killed, Ben sent Sayid to Hugo……[/quote]
——–
The person doesn’t have to be alive either, like Locke.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Two shay (touche).
RGS
I actually took the Ben F Cavier post a a joke and not a serious attack. I might have even guesses Hammer or Doc H if Doc hadn’t gone AWOL for a while and Hammer wasn’t trying to guess who it was.
Do we really think this was a serious post and not a joke? I guess upon re-reading it is a little less Joke than I thought.
RGS, I woudn’t think you would write this as a serious comment. In that case I wouldn’t say Bobola or Omar either. They don’t hide behind ANON names but are willing to debate their thoughts openly.
Wow, RGS, you sure did a lot of detective work to prove that you are innocent! Way to go!!! Could it be Leah? Leah, aren’t you from another country where the time difference could match? Not accusing, just wondering. Too funny! All I can say is that there couldn’t possibly be a real “Ben F Cavier” who would actually look at the Lost blog right when people are posting his name. Too much of a coincidence.
P.S. I was sleeping when it was posted so I am clearly not the culprit.
[quote comment="233465"][quote comment="233460"][quote comment="233457"][quote comment="233443"]
OK, Now I am buying Locke as the econimist. Or at least someone who lives on the island. That rules Sun out. Remember, the econimist only shows up once or twice a year for a short time.
[/quote]
I think we are forgetting there are 2 different people Sayid and Ben are after in “the Economist.” The first, the Economist, the second is at the end of the show in the Vet’s office.
BEN: Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid? I have another name for you.
SAYID: But they know I’m after them now.
BEN: Good.
I guess the question is who are Sayid’s friends?[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
Yeah, I am thinking Sun isn’t the economist. I am more likley to believe she is the “new name”.[/quote]
+++++++++
Sun could be the new name but Ben had said “All of you have to go back.”[/quote]
******************************
Yes, good point about Sun, but Ben said John could go back dead, so why not others as well? Maybe that’s his “idea” for helping get them all there.
[quote comment="233480"]RGS
I actually took the Ben F Cavier post a a joke and not a serious attack. I might have even guesses Hammer or Doc H if Doc hadn’t gone AWOL for a while and Hammer wasn’t trying to guess who it was.
Do we really think this was a serious post and not a joke? I guess upon re-reading it is a little less Joke than I thought.
RGS, I woudn’t think you would write this as a serious comment. In that case I wouldn’t say Bobola or Omar either. They don’t hide behind ANON names but are willing to debate their thoughts openly.[/quote]
Geeeeeezzzz!
I’m away for a few days and I come back to being accused of…bad punctuation and spelling errors!
NO, hell no twasn’t me, but thanks to Circus Mom, who sticks up for me. I rarely miss spelling errors so thanks, whoever missed that little fact and…sparingly use my colons, semi colons, et al.
This blog is gonna sink if it’s getting down some supposed Drama about me. I already got an anonymous handle, why the hell would I need to use “Ben F Cavier”? Especially when I don’t know who that is…the only thing I have in common with the mystery poster is; I also hate Harry Potter.
Ok, shoot at me now.
All those in favor of it having been a Polar Bear that did in John, raise your paw. Or is it Kill your paw?
[quote comment="233461"]I am Ben F Cavier[/quote]
**************************************
isn’t this a confession?
[quote comment="233261"][quote comment="233130"]
The lack of automation with the number entering and button pushing confuses me, too. Maybe “they” think that machines are too unreliable to do such an important job? Remember, both the “economist” and Jacob eschew modern technology.
Just a thought.
: ) P[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, but it wasn’t Jacob or the economist(I’m not positive that the economist isn’t part of DHARMA) that set up the computer, it was DHARMA.[/quote]
___________________
and if you hated technology, wouldn’t you just devise some lever to pull to fix things every 108 minutes?
[quote comment="233387"]
I thought about that too when he told Hurley that “they said it was a suicide”…who else could make it look like a suicide than a trained killer like Sayid? Very interesting. Although, I still think the Economist is Sun.[/quote]
Yeah Said’s clever enough to do it, but he seems to prefer to just shoot people 10 or 15 times.
[quote comment="233433"]
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore?
[/quote]
______________________
Actually, we’re just taking Ben’s word for that. My money’s on Ben because he is(cover your eyes L4E) an evil liar who wanted to manipulate Sayid into doing his dirty work.
[quote comment="233492"][quote comment="233433"]
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore?
[/quote]
______________________
Actually, we’re just taking Ben’s word for that. My money’s on Ben because he is(cover your eyes L4E) an evil liar who wanted to manipulate Sayid into doing his dirty work.[/quote]
******************
True, so I guess to your point…why should we speculate on any of this until we have a clear answer…? I guess the real question will become, is Ben a good guy or a bad guy…and either way, does it justify his lying in the end?
[quote comment="233480"]RGS
I actually took the Ben F Cavier post a a joke and not a serious attack. I might have even guesses Hammer or Doc H if Doc hadn’t gone AWOL for a while and Hammer wasn’t trying to guess who it was.
Do we really think this was a serious post and not a joke? I guess upon re-reading it is a little less Joke than I thought.
RGS, I woudn’t think you would write this as a serious comment. In that case I wouldn’t say Bobola or Omar either. They don’t hide behind ANON names but are willing to debate their thoughts openly.[/quote]
Honestly, I was HOPING it was a joke, but GENERALLY, when someone is MAKING a joke online, they pepper it with *grins* or LOLs to SHOW it is a joke.
I don’t necessarily think that whoever wrote it was “hiding” behind the Cavier name. They were just using a clever name that had come up already (thanks to Hammer – that really WAS a good clue, even if it took a couple of shots to get it right! *G*).
Anyway, I selected Omar and Bobola as possible culprits because they tend to share their opinions without any sugar coating. That’s all. Sorry if I offended anyone. It wasn’t meant that way, though I recognize that it could have been read that way. So I heartily apologize.
: ) P
[quote comment="233492"][quote comment="233433"]
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore?
[/quote]
______________________
Actually, we’re just taking Ben’s word for that. My money’s on Ben because he is(cover your eyes L4E) an evil liar who wanted to manipulate Sayid into doing his dirty work.[/quote]
———-
It was shown to be Widmore by Ben. I don’t recall anyone ASSuming the economist had Nadia killed. Ben told Sayid that Widmore killed Nadia, not the Economist. You are right, CAG, Ben is a liar, but his Personality is to manipulate not kill. JMHO.
[quote comment="233483"] I already got an anonymous handle, why the hell would I need to use “Ben F Cavier”? .
[/quote]
Really? ANON, I found you. I stuck up for you too. When did you start posting on this blog? I remember someone called you a “newbie”.
[quote comment="233566"][quote comment="233483"] I already got an anonymous handle, why the hell would I need to use “Ben F Cavier”? .
[/quote]
Really? ANON, I found you. I stuck up for you too. When did you start posting on this blog?
I remember someone called you a “newbie”.[/quote]
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
L4E, I think that maybe Bobola meant that “Bobola” is anonymous, meaning none of us know who he actually is, (just as Circus Mom, Hammer and L4E are relatively anonymous) rather than that he was posting *as* ANON.
Btw, when Hammer first gave the Ben F Cavier clue (in its various forms!), I googled “him.” Got nothing, but it DID remind me something I heard about John Locke, the philosopher. Apparently, he was an advocate of developing a completely secular government. That doesn’t really fit with the “faith” filled John Locke from the show, but I thought it was an interesting thing to note.
: ) P
[quote comment="233565"][quote comment="233492"][quote comment="233433"]
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore?
[/quote]
______________________
Actually, we’re just taking Ben’s word for that. My money’s on Ben because he is(cover your eyes L4E) an evil liar who wanted to manipulate Sayid into doing his dirty work.[/quote]
———-
It was shown to be Widmore by Ben. I don’t recall anyone ASSuming the economist had Nadia killed. Ben told Sayid that Widmore killed Nadia, not the Economist. You are right, CAG, Ben is a liar, but his Personality is to manipulate not kill. JMHO.[/quote]
*************************************
haha, yeah…his personality is to manipulate, not kill IF you exclude his dad, Locke, Charlotte and Keamy…;) granted, he was unsuccessful with Locke and Charlotte, his dad probably deserved it and Keamy definitely deserved it, but that really is beside the point…;)
[quote comment="233638"][Ben's] personality is to manipulate, not kill IF you exclude his dad, Locke, Charlotte and Keamy…;) granted, he was unsuccessful with Locke and Charlotte, his dad probably deserved it and Keamy definitely deserved it, but that really is beside the point…;)[/quote]
I am not sure I buy into the “island” controlling who dies and who doesn’t, but suppose Ben knows that the island won’t LET him kill people who aren’t supposed to die, and shoots Locke and Charlotte knowing they wouldn’t die, but rather to prove a point? To Locke, he proves Locke *is* special. With Charlotte, he proves he is still in the thick of it, even as a captive.
Just a thought.
: ) P
[quote comment="233656"][quote comment="233638"][Ben's] personality is to manipulate, not kill IF you exclude his dad, Locke, Charlotte and Keamy…;) granted, he was unsuccessful with Locke and Charlotte, his dad probably deserved it and Keamy definitely deserved it, but that really is beside the point…;)[/quote]
I am not sure I buy into the “island” controlling who dies and who doesn’t, but suppose Ben knows that the island won’t LET him kill people who aren’t supposed to die, and shoots Locke and Charlotte knowing they wouldn’t die, but rather to prove a point? To Locke, he proves Locke *is* special. With Charlotte, he proves he is still in the thick of it, even as a captive.
Just a thought.
: ) P[/quote]
******************************************
i don’t necessarily agree with this but i do think it’s an interesting point/thought..;) but, all we as the viewers KNOW is that his (attempted) body count is at least four, and in my opinion, shows him to be pretty comfortable with killing…
it really all goes back to whether you think Ben is a ‘villain’ or a ‘hero’ (quotes, because i’m using these words very loosely)…and i always have and still do think that he is defintely on the ‘villain’ side of the coin…;)
[quote comment="233565"][quote comment="233492"][quote comment="233433"]
I don’t know why we assume that the Economist had Nadia killed, that was shown to be Widmore?
[/quote]
______________________
Actually, we’re just taking Ben’s word for that. My money’s on Ben because he is(cover your eyes L4E) an evil liar who wanted to manipulate Sayid into doing his dirty work.[/quote]
———-
It was shown to be Widmore by Ben. I don’t recall anyone ASSuming the economist had Nadia killed. Ben told Sayid that Widmore killed Nadia, not the Economist. You are right, CAG, Ben is a liar, but his Personality is to manipulate not kill. JMHO.[/quote]
***************************
I have always thought that it was Ben who had Nadia killed. He just “happened” to show up in Iraq on the day of Nadia’s funeral and just “happened” to see the funeral procession (I believe on TV)? Telling Sayid that Widmore had it done was his way of manipulating Sayid into doing his killing. Yes, he is a manipulator, but he is also a killer (for starters, his own father).
So basically what we’re all saying is that the question of the next two seasons is going to be Ben vs. Widmore…who is right, who is wrong, good vs. evil, villian vs. hero…both have done bad things and both can play the hero…so now we just have to sit back and wait for more evidence as to who the true good guy is…fair enough?
[quote comment="233695"]So basically what we’re all saying is that the question of the next two seasons is going to be Ben vs. Widmore…who is right, who is wrong, good vs. evil, villian vs. hero…both have done bad things and both can play the hero…so now we just have to sit back and wait for more evidence as to who the true good guy is…fair enough?[/quote]
*****************************************
yes, and we need to know more about Widmore and Widmore and Ben’s past to really know what’s going on with all of that…but just for the record, i don’t really think either of them are going to turn out to be ‘heroes’…i think they are both’evil’ haha
mainly i was just disagreeing with the statement ‘his personality is to manipulate, not kill’…it seems obvious he’s comfortable with doing both…;)
[quote comment="233697"][quote comment="233695"]So basically what we’re all saying is that the question of the next two seasons is going to be Ben vs. Widmore…who is right, who is wrong, good vs. evil, villian vs. hero…both have done bad things and both can play the hero…so now we just have to sit back and wait for more evidence as to who the true good guy is…fair enough?[/quote]
*****************************************
yes, and we need to know more about Widmore and Widmore and Ben’s past to really know what’s going on with all of that…but just for the record, i don’t really think either of them are going to turn out to be ‘heroes’…i think they are both’evil’ haha
mainly i was just disagreeing with the statement ‘his personality is to manipulate, not kill’…it seems obvious he’s comfortable with doing both…;)[/quote]
_____________________
Agreed … they’re BOTH evil! That’s why the island and Alpert needed Locke .. a good guy, and that’s why Ben has been so determined to turn Locke into a bad guy by manipulating him into killing his dad and Naomi.
Quick thoughts
1 – I think all the Flashbacks and Flashforwads all exist inside of the smoke monster and that sound we hear when the flashes fade back to the island are the sound of smokey rebooting the memories it has stolen (Which means smokey will examine the O6 when they get back aswell…LOL in the end we’ll find out we were just watching smokey’s insides all along..
2) Christian Sheperd was a substance abusive compulsive who died before he really got what he was looking for…Jack JUST LIKE HIS FATHER has turned into a substance abusive compulsive…Perhaps Christian was seeing island related things that made him go crazy to the point he had to fly to Australia that’s coicidentally in the islands path…I wouldn’t be suprised 1 bit if he also had a stake in the island and Jack has to redeem his father in some way by going back just as he turns into the exact same person his father was…
[quote comment="233723"] Locke into a bad guy by manipulating him into killing his dad and Naomi.[/quote]
Sawyer killed Cooper. Locke killed Naomi. Ther is no evidence that Ben told Locke to kill Naomi, wasn’t that “taller” ghost Walt he saw?
Before killing Keamy, we only saw Ben kill one person, not as many as Michael and just as many as Locke. Was killing people ever a part of Michael’s or Locke’s personality? Ben killed his father ( not his orders, but I am sure he didn’t mind ).
It was a mistake to say “not kill”. It is obvious that his personality is more to manipulate people than kill. That’s what we have seen him do since he was Henry Gale. The ultimate chessplayer who “always has a plan.”
But, yes, he doesn’t seem to mind killing.
If the island is ultimately a “good” place that may protect all of humanity, I would have to say WHOMEVER and HOWEVER it is protected would have to be considered heroes. But as Lins implied we just don’t know yet. JMO.
[quote comment="233481"]Wow, RGS, you sure did a lot of detective work to prove that you are innocent! Way to go!!! Could it be Leah? Leah, aren’t you from another country where the time difference could match? Not accusing, just wondering. Too funny! All I can say is that there couldn’t possibly be a real “Ben F Cavier” who would actually look at the Lost blog right when people are posting his name. Too much of a coincidence.
P.S. I was sleeping when it was posted so I am clearly not the culprit.[/quote]
/////////////////
im not cabin fever ,cant even find little island ,i was awake but off line at the time,b’sides i declared my name change.
[quote comment="233744"][quote comment="233723"] Locke into a bad guy by manipulating him into killing his dad and Naomi.[/quote]
Sawyer killed Cooper. Locke killed Naomi. Ther is no evidence that Ben told Locke to kill Naomi, wasn’t that “taller” ghost Walt he saw?
Before killing Keamy, we only saw Ben kill one person, not as many as Michael and just as many as Locke. Was killing people ever a part of Michael’s or Locke’s personality? Ben killed his father ( not his orders, but I am sure he didn’t mind ).
It was a mistake to say “not kill”. It is obvious that his personality is more to manipulate people than kill. That’s what we have seen him do since he was Henry Gale. The ultimate chessplayer who “always has a plan.”
But, yes, he doesn’t seem to mind killing.
If the island is ultimately a “good” place that may protect all of humanity, I would have to say WHOMEVER and HOWEVER it is protected would have to be considered heroes. But as Lins implied we just don’t know yet. JMO.[/quote]
++++++++++++++
I question if the island is a “good” place when it requires so many people to die to protect it. Obviously it is not protecting “all” of humanity. People do, however, tend to take things that are neither good or bad and find bad uses for them. Atomic energy for example.
[quote comment="233818"]
I question if the island is a “good” place when it requires so many people to die to protect it. Obviously it is not protecting “all” of humanity. People do, however, tend to take things that are neither good or bad and find bad uses for them. Atomic energy for example.[/quote]
Good point.
However, it is possible that is a point the creators are trying to make. They regularly use literary and biblical references. Since many people have killed, and been killed, in the name of, and / or to protect, their god(s), perhaps so too, does the island?
: ) P
I am reading “Lost Boy” by Greg Laurie (nothing to do with our LOST) and came across the name “Dr. Richard Alpert” so I Googled the name and came up with this:
Dr. Richard Alpert (born April 6, 1931), also known as Baba Ram Dass, is a contemporary spiritual teacher who wrote the 1971 bestseller Be Here Now. He is well-known for his association with Timothy Leary at Harvard University in the early 1960s, both having been dismissed from their professorships for experiments on the effects of psychedelic drugs on human subjects. He is also known for his travels to India and his association with the Hindu guru Neem Karoli Baba.
Just thought it was intersting to come across a name I recognize from Lost while reading. I could probably Google ALL of the characters and find SOMEBODY out there with the same name though.
LIKE I AM STUPID ENOUGH TO LEAVE CLUES….LIKE PUNCTUATION AND GRAMMAR….YOU MIGHT ALL BE DUMBER NOW FOR THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM….WHICH ANY IDIOT WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT….
83 POSTS SINCE MY LAST….BEN F CRAVIER WAS MENTIONED 26 TIMES AFTER IT WAS FINALLY SPELLED PROPERLY….I LOVE LOST AND HEROES….TIME WILL TELL WHICH IS BETTER
[quote comment="233866"]LIKE I AM STUPID ENOUGH TO LEAVE CLUES….LIKE PUNCTUATION AND GRAMMAR….YOU MIGHT ALL BE DUMBER NOW FOR THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM….WHICH ANY IDIOT WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT….
83 POSTS SINCE MY LAST….BEN F CRAVIER WAS MENTIONED 26 TIMES AFTER IT WAS FINALLY SPELLED PROPERLY….I LOVE LOST AND HEROES….TIME WILL TELL WHICH IS BETTER[/quote]
You posted at 12:30 PST so you’re not likely from Detroit or the east coast.
[quote comment="233880"][quote comment="233866"]LIKE I AM STUPID ENOUGH TO LEAVE CLUES….LIKE PUNCTUATION AND GRAMMAR….YOU MIGHT ALL BE DUMBER NOW FOR THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM….WHICH ANY IDIOT WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT….
83 POSTS SINCE MY LAST….BEN F CRAVIER WAS MENTIONED 26 TIMES AFTER IT WAS FINALLY SPELLED PROPERLY….I LOVE LOST AND HEROES….TIME WILL TELL WHICH IS BETTER[/quote]
You posted at 12:30 PST so you’re not likely from Detroit or the east coast.[/quote]
__________________
Just a theory, no offense to anyone, but Omar is a big Lakers fan, (west coast) is probably bitter right about now for the Celtics success, and consistently uses four dots (….) to denote a pause.
… or not
[quote comment="233744"][quote comment="233723"] Locke into a bad guy by manipulating him into killing his dad and Naomi.[/quote]
Sawyer killed Cooper. Locke killed Naomi. Ther is no evidence that Ben told Locke to kill Naomi, wasn’t that “taller” ghost Walt he saw?
Before killing Keamy, we only saw Ben kill one person, not as many as Michael and just as many as Locke. Was killing people ever a part of Michael’s or Locke’s personality? Ben killed his father ( not his orders, but I am sure he didn’t mind ).
It was a mistake to say “not kill”. It is obvious that his personality is more to manipulate people than kill. That’s what we have seen him do since he was Henry Gale. The ultimate chessplayer who “always has a plan.”
But, yes, he doesn’t seem to mind killing.
If the island is ultimately a “good” place that may protect all of humanity, I would have to say WHOMEVER and HOWEVER it is protected would have to be considered heroes. But as Lins implied we just don’t know yet. JMO.[/quote]
________________
True, Sawyer killed cooper, but Ben was the one who tried to get Locke to do it by bribing him with answers. All we heard Walt say to Locke (granted, on camera) was that he still had work to do. It was the bug Ben planted in Locke’s ear about how the Widmorians had to be stopped at any cost that led Locke to kill Naomi. IMO that was the wrong thing to do in light of Alpert’s rejection of Locke on the grounds of his choosing the knife.
I agree with you though about Ben, he’s a masterful (and highly effective) manipulator first and formost. He gets the job done by convincing others that it was their idea to do it! Your comment about heroes opens a debate on weather the ends justify the means … and I’m not going to be the guy to open THAT can of worms!
[quote comment="233866"]LIKE I AM STUPID ENOUGH TO LEAVE CLUES….LIKE PUNCTUATION AND GRAMMAR….YOU MIGHT ALL BE DUMBER NOW FOR THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM….WHICH ANY IDIOT WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT….
83 POSTS SINCE MY LAST….BEN F CRAVIER WAS MENTIONED 26 TIMES AFTER IT WAS FINALLY SPELLED PROPERLY….I LOVE LOST AND HEROES….TIME WILL TELL WHICH IS BETTER[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
sniffs bait….swims away
[quote comment="233866"]LIKE I AM STUPID ENOUGH TO LEAVE CLUES….LIKE PUNCTUATION AND GRAMMAR….YOU MIGHT ALL BE DUMBER NOW FOR THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM….WHICH ANY IDIOT WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT….
83 POSTS SINCE MY LAST….BEN F CRAVIER WAS MENTIONED 26 TIMES AFTER IT WAS FINALLY SPELLED PROPERLY….I LOVE LOST AND HEROES….TIME WILL TELL WHICH IS BETTER[/quote]
LOL.
Hey, Ben. You say “any idiot” would have figured out “THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM” except that THAT is not the web address for the little island. Close though. ‘Cept close doesn’t get you ANYWHERE on the ‘net. *g*
: ) P
[quote comment="233995"][quote comment="233866"]LIKE I AM STUPID ENOUGH TO LEAVE CLUES….LIKE PUNCTUATION AND GRAMMAR….YOU MIGHT ALL BE DUMBER NOW FOR THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM….WHICH ANY IDIOT WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT….
83 POSTS SINCE MY LAST….BEN F CRAVIER WAS MENTIONED 26 TIMES AFTER IT WAS FINALLY SPELLED PROPERLY….I LOVE LOST AND HEROES….TIME WILL TELL WHICH IS BETTER[/quote]
LOL.
Hey, Ben. You say “any idiot” would have figured out “THEYMOVEDTHEISLAND.COM” except that THAT is not the web address for the little island. Close though. ‘Cept close doesn’t get you ANYWHERE on the ‘net. *g*
: ) P[/quote]
+++++++++++++++++
Now that’s funny, make fun of me for spelling then type in the wrong address….my sides and cheeks hurt from laughter.
Happy father’s day to all you dad’s and happy daddio’s day to all you cool cats.
(fingers snapping)
[quote comment="234307"]Happy father’s day to all you dad’s and happy daddio’s day to all you cool cats.
(fingers snapping)[/quote]
What he said.
*g*
HFD to all,
: ) P
Okay this has probably been brought up in another post in the past. If so my apologies. In the bible Aaron is the great-great-grandson of Jacob. (According to lostpedia) If so this makes Claire and Jack his great-grandchildren and CS his grandson. Maybe this is why CS can speak for Jacob and Claire is so comfortable in his cabin.
[quote comment="234292"]
Now that’s funny, make fun of me for spelling then type in the wrong address….my sides and cheeks hurt from laughter.[/quote]
He also spelled his own name wrong. LOL.
Happy Father’s Day to all. You never know how long they will be around.
[quote comment="234502"]Okay this has probably been brought up in another post in the past. If so my apologies. In the bible Aaron is the great-great-grandson of Jacob. (According to lostpedia) If so this makes Claire and Jack his great-grandchildren and CS his grandson. Maybe this is why CS can speak for Jacob and Claire is so comfortable in his cabin.[/quote]
Jacob also had 12 sons the youngest named Benjamin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob
lets just ignore him ,perhaps he’ll go away
when he writes things in capitals, does that mean he,s shouting?….. how rude.
ya’ll need to grow some manners – great minds stink alike – sniffs butt swims away. ooh. we are the cool kids – we have our own dweebsite.
[quote comment="234578"]ya’ll need to grow some manners – great minds stink alike – sniffs butt swims away. ooh. we are the cool kids – we have our own dweebsite.[/quote]
sniffs bait yet again….swims away
[quote comment="233744"][quote comment="233723"] Locke into a bad guy by manipulating him into killing his dad and Naomi.[/quote]
Sawyer killed Cooper. Locke killed Naomi. Ther is no evidence that Ben told Locke to kill Naomi, wasn’t that “taller” ghost Walt he saw?
Before killing Keamy, we only saw Ben kill one person, not as many as Michael and just as many as Locke. Was killing people ever a part of Michael’s or Locke’s personality? Ben killed his father ( not his orders, but I am sure he didn’t mind ).
It was a mistake to say “not kill”. It is obvious that his personality is more to manipulate people than kill. That’s what we have seen him do since he was Henry Gale. The ultimate chessplayer who “always has a plan.”
But, yes, he doesn’t seem to mind killing.
If the island is ultimately a “good” place that may protect all of humanity, I would have to say WHOMEVER and HOWEVER it is protected would have to be considered heroes. But as Lins implied we just don’t know yet. JMO.[/quote]
*****************************************
Ben has ‘attempted’ to kill four people and succeeded twice but it doesn’t matter…hell, even Jack attempted to kill Locke…;)
funny tho because i think Sawyer has the highest (on island) body count of any single person on the island with three…
-Anthony Cooper
-Tom
-namelss Other who is following them at the end of season two when Michael is leading them into the trap…
Is that all for Sawyer? is there anyone on the island more murderous than that?
[quote comment="234578"]ya’ll need to grow some manners – great minds stink alike – sniffs butt swims away. ooh. we are the cool kids – we have our own dweebsite.[/quote]
*************************************
you seem a little angry…cheer up!
and Heroes is a cool show but in no way is it better than Lost…just an opinion…;)
as for other good shows on TV, i highly recommend Rescue Me (Dennis Leary) and The Riches (Eddie Izzard)…both on fairly late on FX…;)
funny tho because i think Sawyer has the highest (on island) body count of any single person on the island with three…
-Anthony Cooper
-Tom
-namelss Other who is following them at the end of season two when Michael is leading them into the trap…
Is that all for Sawyer? is there anyone on the island more murderous than that?
[/quote]
*****************************************
haha, oh yeah…and one polar bear, a tree frog and at least one boar…i think that covers it…;)
[quote comment="234811"]Ben has ‘attempted’ to kill four people and succeeded twice but it doesn’t matter…hell, even Jack attempted to kill Locke…;)
funny tho because i think Sawyer has the highest (on island) body count of any single person on the island with three…
-Anthony Cooper
-Tom
-namelss Other who is following them at the end of season two when Michael is leading them into the trap…
Is that all for Sawyer? is there anyone on the island more murderous than that?
[/quote]
Sawyer killed the Marshal in season one. Yes, it was a mercy killing, but a murder none-the-less.
: ) P
[quote comment="234820"][quote comment="234811"]Ben has ‘attempted’ to kill four people and succeeded twice but it doesn’t matter…hell, even Jack attempted to kill Locke…;)
funny tho because i think Sawyer has the highest (on island) body count of any single person on the island with three…
-Anthony Cooper
-Tom
-namelss Other who is following them at the end of season two when Michael is leading them into the trap…
Is that all for Sawyer? is there anyone on the island more murderous than that?
[/quote]
Sawyer killed the Marshal in season one. Yes, it was a mercy killing, but a murder none-the-less.
: ) P[/quote]
***************************************
oh yeah, i completely forgot about that…so he’s actually killed at least four people…and he’s one of favorite charcters so who am i to judge…;)
[quote comment="234821"][quote comment="234820"][quote comment="234811"]Ben has ‘attempted’ to kill four people and succeeded twice but it doesn’t matter…hell, even Jack attempted to kill Locke…;)
funny tho because i think Sawyer has the highest (on island) body count of any single person on the island with three…
-Anthony Cooper
-Tom
-namelss Other who is following them at the end of season two when Michael is leading them into the trap…
Is that all for Sawyer? is there anyone on the island more murderous than that?
[/quote]
Sawyer killed the Marshal in season one. Yes, it was a mercy killing, but a murder none-the-less.
: ) P[/quote]
***************************************
oh yeah, i completely forgot about that…so he’s actually killed at least four people…and he’s one of favorite charcters so who am i to judge…;)[/quote]
**************************************
That’s exactly the point though, isn’t it? We all (mostly) like Sawyer and Kate and Jack and Jin and Locke because despite their faults, they are portrayed as likeable people and we laugh with them and cry when bad things happen and so on…with someone like Ben, it’s a totally different game because that’s the way his character is portrayed. We’re not supposed to know if he’s good or bad or what and there are times when he seems nice and good and times when we all (mostly) hate him. That’s what makes it great TV!!
[quote comment="234824"][quote comment="234821"][quote comment="234820"][quote comment="234811"]Ben has ‘attempted’ to kill four people and succeeded twice but it doesn’t matter…hell, even Jack attempted to kill Locke…;)
funny tho because i think Sawyer has the highest (on island) body count of any single person on the island with three…
-Anthony Cooper
-Tom
-namelss Other who is following them at the end of season two when Michael is leading them into the trap…
Is that all for Sawyer? is there anyone on the island more murderous than that?
[/quote]
Sawyer killed the Marshal in season one. Yes, it was a mercy killing, but a murder none-the-less.
: ) P[/quote]
***************************************
oh yeah, i completely forgot about that…so he’s actually killed at least four people…and he’s one of favorite charcters so who am i to judge…;)[/quote]
**************************************
That’s exactly the point though, isn’t it? We all (mostly) like Sawyer and Kate and Jack and Jin and Locke because despite their faults, they are portrayed as likeable people and we laugh with them and cry when bad things happen and so on…with someone like Ben, it’s a totally different game because that’s the way his character is portrayed. We’re not supposed to know if he’s good or bad or what and there are times when he seems nice and good and times when we all (mostly) hate him. That’s what makes it great TV!![/quote]
***************************************
haha, well i don’t ever think Ben seems nice and good…although he is funny sometimes…but i totally get your point and i agree…;) if these characters were real people, i don’t think i’d invite any of them over for a beer…except maybe Hurley…;)
have you all run off to ya private web site now ?ten posts in 24 hours .not good.
Hi Leah, with no new episodes to discuss, things have sure slowed down! How will we ever survive until January?
[quote comment="234932"]have you all run off to ya private web site now ?ten posts in 24 hours .not good.[/quote]
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i was trying to stir things up a little yesterday but couldn’t think of anything really interesting to talk about and not too many people were posting back…i’ve also visited the little island tho and it was fairly slow there too so, who knows…;)
[quote comment="234824"]
That’s exactly the point though, isn’t it? We all (mostly) like Sawyer and Kate and Jack and Jin and Locke because despite their faults, they are portrayed as likeable people and we laugh with them and cry when bad things happen and so on…with someone like Ben, it’s a totally different game because that’s the way his character is portrayed. We’re not supposed to know if he’s good or bad or what and there are times when he seems nice and good and times when we all (mostly) hate him. That’s what makes it great TV!![/quote]
Exactly the point. Didn’t Hurley even run people over in the Dharma Van?
[quote comment="235074"][quote comment="234824"]
That’s exactly the point though, isn’t it? We all (mostly) like Sawyer and Kate and Jack and Jin and Locke because despite their faults, they are portrayed as likeable people and we laugh with them and cry when bad things happen and so on…with someone like Ben, it’s a totally different game because that’s the way his character is portrayed. We’re not supposed to know if he’s good or bad or what and there are times when he seems nice and good and times when we all (mostly) hate him. That’s what makes it great TV!![/quote]
Exactly the point. Didn’t Hurley even run people over in the Dharma Van?[/quote]
***************************************
yes, he sure did…and i felt like cheering when it happened…;)
[quote comment="235074"][quote comment="234824"]
That’s exactly the point though, isn’t it? We all (mostly) like Sawyer and Kate and Jack and Jin and Locke because despite their faults, they are portrayed as likeable people and we laugh with them and cry when bad things happen and so on…with someone like Ben, it’s a totally different game because that’s the way his character is portrayed. We’re not supposed to know if he’s good or bad or what and there are times when he seems nice and good and times when we all (mostly) hate him. That’s what makes it great TV!![/quote]
Exactly the point. Didn’t Hurley even run people over in the Dharma Van?[/quote]
*****************************************
although, to be fair…the only reason that Hurley had to run over Others in the van was because the Others came to the camp to kidnap some people (Kate and Sun, i think) on Ben’s orders…;)
[quote comment="230348"][quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….
So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.[/quote]
***********************************
Before he “returned” to the island, Desmond also did some “time traveling” after turning the fail-safe key. Might not be all that different than what happened to Ben, except that Ben was expecting it and knew what was happening. Desmond was able to “return” though, maybe Ben will too at some point.[/quote]
hi hope someone is still around…
i was thinking about the link between Des’ hatch and the Orchid as both being devices to move the island. My problem is this. Des had to keep entering the code every 102 minutes. When he didnt we had the purple sky explosion and Des’ time travelling. This would imply, following the theory’s logic, that the island moved (becoming accessible to widmore once again). However, the implication of this series of events is that Des was pushing the button to prevent the island from moving. plausible. but why? was the island at constant risk of time travel? did the island contiunally move every 102 minutes until Dharma came up with a means to prevent it?
i’m not saying its not the case just that i cannt reason it out. anyone else??
8 months left…..
[quote comment="235127"][quote comment="230348"][quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]Desmond turned what looked like a Dharma failsafe key, while it looked like Ben turned a wheel from before Dharma was on the island. That doesn’t mean that what Desmond did wasn’t him moving the island, merely an observation that the two incidents were performed quite differently.[/quote]
I assume that the two incidents are related. Desmond’s incident looked identical. Des ended up naked and confused in the jungle with new “powers”, Ben ended up clothed and wondering “when” he was….
So we don’t yet have confirmation that turning the key moved the island….but I suspect it did. DHARMA’s key seems different than “natives” wheel. My guess is that both the key and the wheel had some level of access to the islands power to be moved. Remember Ben had to blow a hole in the wall to get to the wheel. DHARMA had their key set up in another station.[/quote]
***********************************
Before he “returned” to the island, Desmond also did some “time traveling” after turning the fail-safe key. Might not be all that different than what happened to Ben, except that Ben was expecting it and knew what was happening. Desmond was able to “return” though, maybe Ben will too at some point.[/quote]
hi hope someone is still around…
i was thinking about the link between Des’ hatch and the Orchid as both being devices to move the island. My problem is this. Des had to keep entering the code every 102 minutes. When he didnt we had the purple sky explosion and Des’ time travelling. This would imply, following the theory’s logic, that the island moved (becoming accessible to widmore once again). However, the implication of this series of events is that Des was pushing the button to prevent the island from moving. plausible. but why? was the island at constant risk of time travel? did the island contiunally move every 102 minutes until Dharma came up with a means to prevent it?
i’m not saying its not the case just that i cannt reason it out. anyone else??
8 months left…..[/quote]
*******************************************
the whole fly in the ointment to the whole theory that both moved the island, is the having to the push the button every 108 minutes…why, once the key was turned, was it no longer important to enter the numbers and push the button?
my own personal theory on this is:
1-pushing the button every 108 minutes kept the island ‘hidden’ (how? who knows) …and in case of emergency, the key is used but then the island is no longer hidden…which is why Widmore was able to locate it…
2-Turning the wheel moves the island. Used in the event that the island is located before it can, somehow, be hidden again…
3- Other than the ‘purple sky event’ (which may have been caused by similar energies used, not similar actions/results), the two actions did not seem very similar to me and i don’t believe that both moved the island…
just an opinion…;)
[quote comment="230809"]Hammer- In response to post #730
Really I think the show is trying to display Hurley’s affinity for the dead, not really alter Eko’s eternity. Maybe he will go back to the island and be used in a Miles type fashion or go against Miles or be able to dispute something that Miles says.[/quote]
hi i also think that the fact Eko’s seat was empty underlined the fact that Charlie was dead. Jack couldn’t see Eko only Hurley. Remember when Charlie appeared to Hurley we speculated as to whether he had really died or just time travelled or just gone over to the *others* side.
[quote comment="235129"][quote comment="235127"][quote comment="230348"][quote comment="230338"][quote comment="230181"]
*******************************************
the whole fly in the ointment to the whole theory that both moved the island, is the having to the push the button every 108 minutes…why, once the key was turned, was it no longer important to enter the numbers and push the button?
my own personal theory on this is:
1-pushing the button every 108 minutes kept the island ‘hidden’ (how? who knows) …and in case of emergency, the key is used but then the island is no longer hidden…which is why Widmore was able to locate it…
2-Turning the wheel moves the island. Used in the event that the island is located before it can, somehow, be hidden again…
3- Other than the ‘purple sky event’ (which may have been caused by similar energies used, not similar actions/results), the two actions did not seem very similar to me and i don’t believe that both moved the island…
just an opinion…;)[/quote]
glad i’m not the only one still here:) thats what i was thinking. i hope we find out how Des’ hatch worked and it doesnt end up as island mythos.
[quote comment="230864"]OH and my spelling isn’t as bad as I thought, when I googled it the first listing was acquiescence and in my rush I didn’t look at acquiesce which is what I meant to type…blame it on the island.[/quote]
ahh that was evil. it has taken me a week (alongside my boring real life) to get to your comment and you made me think i had missed a one-off special. ahhhhhhh. ;p
[quote comment="235129"]
1 – pushing the button every 108 minutes kept the island ‘hidden’ (how? who knows) …and in case of emergency, the key is used but then the island is no longer hidden… which is why Widmore was able to locate it…
2 – Turning the wheel moves the island. Used in the event that the island is located before it can, somehow, be hidden again…
3- Other than the ‘purple sky event’ (which may have been caused by similar energies used, not similar actions/results), the two actions did not seem very similar to me and i don’t believe that both moved the island…
[/quote]
yep… I am pretty much on board with everything all of your key points too.
Frozen Wheel = Move,
Swan Hatch = Hide and/or Cloak,
I’d add
Looking Glass and/or Orchid = Come/Go from Island,
- – - -
Two points to ponder.
~ When Desmond did his Tarzan, run through the jungle naked thing… was it like Ben’s trip to Tunisia thing? Only just more of a localized ‘event’… where he just reappeared on the island, and not on the otherside of the globe.
~ Why did Ben take the course of action he took when he left the march to the Temple and engaged the Losties? Seems to me that if HE KNEW that the freighter tots and Widmore were in hot pursuit of the island… he simply would have hiked directly to the frozen wheel, and moved the island ASAP, to avoid outsider contact.
ok i must be tired i have responded to the wrong quote. i meant the one that claimed 75 mins to the next show!!!!!!!!!Bed beckons.
[quote comment="235135"][quote comment="235129"]
1 – pushing the button every 108 minutes kept the island ‘hidden’ (how? who knows) …and in case of emergency, the key is used but then the island is no longer hidden… which is why Widmore was able to locate it…
2 – Turning the wheel moves the island. Used in the event that the island is located before it can, somehow, be hidden again…
3- Other than the ‘purple sky event’ (which may have been caused by similar energies used, not similar actions/results), the two actions did not seem very similar to me and i don’t believe that both moved the island…
[/quote]
yep… I am pretty much on board with everything all of your key points too.
Frozen Wheel = Move,
Swan Hatch = Hide and/or Cloak,
I’d add
Looking Glass and/or Orchid = Come/Go from Island,
- – - -
Two points to ponder.
~ When Desmond did his Tarzan, run through the jungle naked thing… was it like Ben’s trip to Tunisia thing? Only just more of a localized ‘event’… where he just reappeared on the island, and not on the otherside of the globe.
~ Why did Ben take the course of action he took when he left the march to the Temple and engaged the Losties? Seems to me that if HE KNEW that the freighter tots and Widmore were in hot pursuit of the island… he simply would have hiked directly to the frozen wheel, and moved the island ASAP, to avoid outsider contact.[/quote]
**************************************
well, Ben didn’t lose his clothing, so i’m not sure about that…Desmond losing his clothing always seemed weird to me and i blew it off figuring they would explain it evntually and they never did…i think it’s safe to assume that Des ‘traveled somewhere’ tho so yeah, maybe it’s the same thing as what happened to Ben, on a smaller level…hmm…
and i agree that Ben’s ‘path’ to the Orchid seemed less-than-urgent…i think that was supposed to be explained by his ‘last resort’ comment and so at first he wasn’t planning to do that…but i’m really unsure of what could’ve happened differently to change the way things went down…even if Jack had not made the call and Michael had blown the boat up, they were in the right area at that point, Widmore knew about it and you would think the island would still have to be moved, regardless…
those are great questions/points…
[quote comment="235131"]hi i also think that the fact Eko’s seat was empty underlined the fact that Charlie was dead. Jack couldn’t see Eko only Hurley. Remember when Charlie appeared to Hurley we speculated as to whether he had really died or just time travelled or just gone over to the *others* side.[/quote]
Well big surprise from me, but I think it proves the opposite *G*. Hurley DOESN’T really see the dead, but he was pretending to play chess with someone because he *THINKS* he does see the dead and he *THINKS* he is crazy.
We saw Charlie. So did someone else at Santa Rosa. We didn’t see Eko, neither did Sayid.
Thinking about when we have seen “dead” characters – who were they? Libby was in Michael’s dream. Claire (who may or may not be dead) was in Kate’s dream. Horace was in Locke’s dream. Harper, who was accompanied by Whispers, was NOT dead (according to D&C – though they did mention that our concept of dead might be different from theirs). I know that Eko saw Yemi, but don’t remember the circumstances.
When else have we, the viewers, seen people we know to be dead, interacting with other characters? With the exception of Christian (who until the last few episodes, had not spoken to or interacted with other characters, but had simply been seen), and Charlie (who, as everyone knows, I believe is alive) who else, do we know to be dead, has interacted with characters on screen NOT during a dream sequence?
: ) P
[quote comment="235138"]
well, Ben didn’t lose his clothing, so i’m not sure about that…Desmond losing his clothing always seemed weird to me and i blew it off figuring they would explain it evntually and they never did… i think it’s safe to assume that Des ‘traveled somewhere’ tho so yeah, maybe it’s the same thing as what happened to Ben, on a smaller level…
[/quote]
Ben left somewhere very cold, and arrived somewhere very warm. Who knows with Des? He may have left somewhere very warm… or arrived at a very warm place where he had to “get nakid” quickly. He was dis-oriented. The first thing you do when it that state is ‘get comfortable’… before you get re-oriented.
(note: Many people that freeze to death are found naked, or barely dressed, because as their core temperature drops, they feel like they are burning-up… not freezing. Word!)
[quote comment="235143"]
Thinking about when we have seen “dead” characters – who were they? Libby was in Michael’s dream. Claire (who may or may not be dead) was in Kate’s dream. Horace was in Locke’s dream. Harper, who was accompanied by Whispers, was NOT dead (according to D&C – though they did mention that our concept of dead might be different from theirs). I know that Eko saw Yemi, but don’t remember the circumstances.
When else have we, the viewers, seen people we know to be dead, interacting with other characters? With the exception of Christian (who until the last few episodes, had not spoken to or interacted with other characters, but had simply been seen), and Charlie (who, as everyone knows, I believe is alive) who else, do we know to be dead, has interacted with characters on screen NOT during a dream sequence?
: ) P[/quote]
Was Libby’s appearance to Michael in a dream sequence? I thought she appeared to him when he was going to blow up the boat?
[quote comment="235144"][quote comment="235138"]
well, Ben didn’t lose his clothing, so i’m not sure about that…Desmond losing his clothing always seemed weird to me and i blew it off figuring they would explain it evntually and they never did… i think it’s safe to assume that Des ‘traveled somewhere’ tho so yeah, maybe it’s the same thing as what happened to Ben, on a smaller level…
[/quote]
Ben left somewhere very cold, and arrived somewhere very warm. Who knows with Des? He may have left somewhere very warm… or arrived at a very warm place where he had to “get nakid” quickly. He was dis-oriented. The first thing you do when it that state is ‘get comfortable’… before you get re-oriented.
(note: Many people that freeze to death are found naked, or barely dressed, because as their core temperature drops, they feel like they are burning-up… not freezing. Word!)[/quote]
_________________
Maybe he was vaporized in the sudden energy discharge and was “reborn” (no one is born with clothes on)
[quote comment="235152"]Was Libby’s appearance to Michael in a dream sequence? I thought she appeared to him when he was going to blow up the boat?[/quote]
I was thinking about when he dreamed he saw her in the hospital. I forgot that she appeared to him on the freighter. Thanks!
: ) P
[quote comment="235153"]
Maybe he was vaporized in the sudden energy discharge and was “reborn” (no one is born with clothes on)
[/quote]
Good point.
Ben & Charlotte were allegedly “born” on the island. Maybe they were simply “reborn” there. Wouldn’t mind a naked ‘run through the jungle’ visually in that case…
(HER!, not him).
[8^)
[quote comment="235143"]
Harper, who was accompanied by Whispers, was NOT dead (according to D&C – though they did mention that our concept of dead might be different from theirs). I know that Eko saw Yemi, but don’t remember the circumstances.
[/quote]
As a side note, I think that when Juliette asked Harper “What are you doing here.”, she didn’t mean in the jungle, she meant this “time line”. And that’s what D&C might mean. I think Charlie and Harper are both “dead but here”.
[quote comment="235144"][quote comment="235138"]
well, Ben didn’t lose his clothing, so i’m not sure about that…Desmond losing his clothing always seemed weird to me and i blew it off figuring they would explain it evntually and they never did… i think it’s safe to assume that Des ‘traveled somewhere’ tho so yeah, maybe it’s the same thing as what happened to Ben, on a smaller level…
[/quote]
Ben left somewhere very cold, and arrived somewhere very warm. Who knows with Des? He may have left somewhere very warm… or arrived at a very warm place where he had to “get nakid” quickly. He was dis-oriented. The first thing you do when it that state is ‘get comfortable’… before you get re-oriented.
Or maybe he was simply in the shower when he was pulled back
[quote comment="235187"][quote comment="235152"]Was Libby’s appearance to Michael in a dream sequence? I thought she appeared to him when he was going to blow up the boat?[/quote]
I was thinking about when he dreamed he saw her in the hospital. I forgot that she appeared to him on the freighter. Thanks!
: ) P[/quote]
I believe in the hospital it was a “dream” sequence as was Kate with Claire. They both clearly woke up.
Remember, after Libby appeared, the whole scene was different. The oxygen mask, the christmas tree, and the different monitors. When Libby appeared to Michael on the freighter, she was accompanied by the same music that Michael had playing in his car when he crashed. He was clearly awake before this appearance. I don’t know what the difference between the two tpyes of “visions” are, but there is one.
[quote comment="235143"]
We saw Charlie. So did someone else at Santa Rosa. We didn’t see Eko, neither did Sayid.
[/quote]
That was a hint to us as the viewer that Charlie IS dead. At least as dead as Ekko. Ekko WAS there as Charlie was. The apparitions have always seem to show themselves to only certain people and then disappear when someone unintended for the vision arrives. We have seen this on numerous occasions throughout the 4 seasons. So, because Sayid didn’t see Ekko, IMO, doesn’t really mean anything, except that the visit from Ekko was intended for Hurley and him alone.
[quote comment="235203"][quote comment="235153"]
Maybe he was vaporized in the sudden energy discharge and was “reborn” (no one is born with clothes on)
[/quote]
Good point.
Ben & Charlotte were allegedly “born” on the island. Maybe they were simply “reborn” there. Wouldn’t mind a naked ‘run through the jungle’ visually in that case…
(HER!, not him).
[8^)[/quote]
———
Ben, the person, was not born on the island, Charlotte may have been.
Ben, one-time workman, the ultimate chessplayer, master-manipulator, FDW turner, island protector, island leader ( sometimes ), O6 recruiter, Juliet-owner ( “you are mine” ), Dharma-hater, Cancer survivor, Henry Gale claimer, and yes sometimes killer, may have been “re-born” on the island.
[quote comment="235135"]
~ Why did Ben take the course of action he took when he left the march to the Temple and engaged the Losties? Seems to me that if HE KNEW that the freighter tots and Widmore were in hot pursuit of the island… he simply would have hiked directly to the frozen wheel, and moved the island ASAP, to avoid outsider contact.[/quote]
I wondered that too originally. Then Hurley asked him alot of questions and he answered “it’s a measure of last resort.” He never wanted to leave the island and knew the consequences he would suffer in moving it. Adios amigo. Sayonara. Namaste. And Good Luck.
[quote comment="235407"]That was a hint to us as the viewer that Charlie IS dead. At least as dead as Ekko. Ekko WAS there as Charlie was. The apparitions have always seem to show themselves to only certain people and then disappear when someone unintended for the vision arrives. We have seen this on numerous occasions throughout the 4 seasons. So, because Sayid didn’t see Ekko, IMO, doesn’t really mean anything, except that the visit from Ekko was intended for Hurley and him alone.[/quote]
But *we* didn’t see Eko. When a character on LOST has seen someone who (through death or displacement) should NOT be there (Walt, Libby, Charlie, Claire, Boone, Harper, Christian), we, the viewers have ALSO seen that character. We did not see Eko.
I know full well that I don’t remember all details of every episode, but if there is evidence of a character being seen by another character (other than Eko at Santa Rosa) when the viewers did NOT see him or her, please tell me who it was and when it happened!
: ) P
[quote comment="235203"][quote comment="235153"]
Maybe he was vaporized in the sudden energy discharge and was “reborn” (no one is born with clothes on)
[/quote]
Good point.
Ben & Charlotte were allegedly “born” on the island. Maybe they were simply “reborn” there. Wouldn’t mind a naked ‘run through the jungle’ visually in that case…
(HER!, not him).
[8^)[/quote]
**********************************************
haha, yeah…a ‘Charlotte running naked through the jungle’ scene would be pretty cool…;)
[quote comment="235418"][quote comment="235407"]That was a hint to us as the viewer that Charlie IS dead. At least as dead as Ekko. Ekko WAS there as Charlie was. The apparitions have always seem to show themselves to only certain people and then disappear when someone unintended for the vision arrives. We have seen this on numerous occasions throughout the 4 seasons. So, because Sayid didn’t see Ekko, IMO, doesn’t really mean anything, except that the visit from Ekko was intended for Hurley and him alone.[/quote]
But *we* didn’t see Eko. When a character on LOST has seen someone who (through death or displacement) should NOT be there (Walt, Libby, Charlie, Claire, Boone, Harper, Christian), we, the viewers have ALSO seen that character. We did not see Eko.
[/quote]
——
Because Sayid was in the room.
[quote comment="235407"][quote comment="235143"]
We saw Charlie. So did someone else at Santa Rosa. We didn’t see Eko, neither did Sayid.
[/quote]
That was a hint to us as the viewer that Charlie IS dead. At least as dead as Ekko. Ekko WAS there as Charlie was. The apparitions have always seem to show themselves to only certain people and then disappear when someone unintended for the vision arrives. We have seen this on numerous occasions throughout the 4 seasons. So, because Sayid didn’t see Ekko, IMO, doesn’t really mean anything, except that the visit from Ekko was intended for Hurley and him alone.[/quote]
******************************************
yes, i agree with al of this…but i also really like the idea of Hurley playing chess with Mr. Eko’s ghost…i think that is too cool…and i’m hoping that it means we’ll see that character again at some point…a long shot i know but hey, we all have dreams…right PJ? haha
[quote comment="235369"][quote comment="235143"]
Harper, who was accompanied by Whispers, was NOT dead (according to D&C – though they did mention that our concept of dead might be different from theirs). I know that Eko saw Yemi, but don’t remember the circumstances.
[/quote]
As a side note, I think that when Juliette asked Harper “What are you doing here.”, she didn’t mean in the jungle, she meant this “time line”. And that’s what D&C might mean. I think Charlie and Harper are both “dead but here”.[/quote]
Actually they stated about Harper,
CARLTON: “Is this the last we have seen of Harper?”
DAMON: “No, ah, she’s an other, she’s still on the island, we didn’t kill her.”
Ben, the person, was not born on the island, Charlotte may have been.
Ben, one-time workman, the ultimate chessplayer, master-manipulator, FDW turner, island protector, island leader ( sometimes ), O6 recruiter, Juliet-owner ( “you are mine” ), Dharma-hater, Cancer survivor, Henry Gale claimer, and yes sometimes killer, may have been “re-born” on the island.[/quote]
***************************************
haha, you forget ‘one EVIL SOB’! nah, just kidding…good post, made me laugh…;)
[quote comment="235434"][quote comment="235369"][quote comment="235143"]
Harper, who was accompanied by Whispers, was NOT dead (according to D&C – though they did mention that our concept of dead might be different from theirs). I know that Eko saw Yemi, but don’t remember the circumstances.
[/quote]
As a side note, I think that when Juliette asked Harper “What are you doing here.”, she didn’t mean in the jungle, she meant this “time line”. And that’s what D&C might mean. I think Charlie and Harper are both “dead but here”.[/quote]
Actually they stated about Harper,
CARLTON: “Is this the last we have seen of Harper?”
DAMON: “No, ah, she’s an other, she’s still on the island, we didn’t kill her.”[/quote]
*****************************************
i hope Harper shows up again…Andrea Roth is cool! She also plays Tommy Gavin’s wife on Rescue Me and she is amazing on that show…;) also, i think the Harper character is kinda scary and they could do some cool stuff with her over the next two seasons…
[quote comment="235428"]
Because Sayid was in the room.[/quote]
Okay, that’s fair.
But I think if Hurley REALLY saw Eko, D&C would have found a way to show us – with Hurley in the room before Sayid came in, or something.
: ) P
[quote comment="235428"][quote comment="235418"][quote comment="235407"]That was a hint to us as the viewer that Charlie IS dead. At least as dead as Ekko. Ekko WAS there as Charlie was. The apparitions have always seem to show themselves to only certain people and then disappear when someone unintended for the vision arrives. We have seen this on numerous occasions throughout the 4 seasons. So, because Sayid didn’t see Ekko, IMO, doesn’t really mean anything, except that the visit from Ekko was intended for Hurley and him alone.[/quote]
But *we* didn’t see Eko. When a character on LOST has seen someone who (through death or displacement) should NOT be there (Walt, Libby, Charlie, Claire, Boone, Harper, Christian), we, the viewers have ALSO seen that character. We did not see Eko.
[/quote]
——
Because Sayid was in the room.[/quote]
It is not the first time that Sayid has appeared and visions or apparitions disappear. I am not sure what episode you are currently watching, but In S2E6 “Abandoned”, Walt appears to Shannon then disappears when Sayid comes.
SAYID: There’s nothing — no one there.
SHANNON: I am telling you I saw Walt.
SAYID: It was a dream, Shannon.
SHANNON: He was here. I saw him. He went into the tent.
SAYID: I was only gone a few moments. You must have fallen asleep.
SHANNON: This was not a dream! I saw Walt!
SAYID: Then where is he?
I realize Walt is not dead. But as stated in the podcast.
Damon: “Walt the person is a person. But there are, there are apparations of Walt that may not be Walt. And also monster related.”
[quote comment="235459"][quote comment="235428"]
Because Sayid was in the room.[/quote]
Okay, that’s fair.
But I think if Hurley REALLY saw Eko, D&C would have found a way to show us – with Hurley in the room before Sayid came in, or something.
: ) P[/quote]
Agreed, if the brilliant actor that plays Ekko was available.
[quote comment="235434"][quote comment="235369"][quote comment="235143"]
Harper, who was accompanied by Whispers, was NOT dead (according to D&C – though they did mention that our concept of dead might be different from theirs). I know that Eko saw Yemi, but don’t remember the circumstances.
[/quote]
As a side note, I think that when Juliette asked Harper “What are you doing here.”, she didn’t mean in the jungle, she meant this “time line”. And that’s what D&C might mean. I think Charlie and Harper are both “dead but here”.[/quote]
Actually they stated about Harper,
CARLTON: “Is this the last we have seen of Harper?”
DAMON: “No, ah, she’s an other, she’s still on the island, we didn’t kill her.”[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++++
Good call, stand corrected. She was a live person accompanied by whispers. How quickly I forget, for crying out loud it’s in my own stinkin’ theory.
Anyone have thoughts on the whispering going on in the Orchid video? They sound much clearer than the most whispers. My first thought was it was just the Orchid video “production crew” talking between takes, but I wonder……..
Hi just my second post since season 3, but I felt I has to write out my thoughts…
Remember Walt was “special” because it was implied that things he drew or created within his mind could come to life…Fast Forward to S4 when Richard visits Locke as a child and asks him to pick what is his…We see a picture that Locke drew of the smoke-monster attacking someone….Also the item that Richard wanted him to remember was the “ash” found outside Jacob’s cabin…
All this leads me to speculate that Jacob is indeed John Locke, and the smoke monster is his own creation manifested into reality by the island’s “whateverness” mystical properties (Like what Walt did on occasion there)…Now thinking back on the time-space sickness Desmond had I think the reason John can be “dead” in the real-world and Jacob on the island is because he is somehow caught or trapped between time and space…Remember Desmond had a time-limit, that if it ran out he would die like the guy on the freighter who he was laying next too…
I think John “died” because he ran out of time when he left to warn the O6 (Perhaps the reason Ben was waiting in the funeral home is because he KNEW someone would eventually go and see Locke and he could use that person to help him with whatever goal he had to get back to the island—Locke’s body could just be a set-up, like he’s “dead” but he was never embalmed or anything)…I think Ben knows everything about Jacob and while it appeared he shot Locke in S3 because of his selfish reasons, it seems to me it was more to test whether John really was Jacob (The guy this cult of people have been told would come to the island as his “real” self)…The Widmore plant who tells John in the hospital that he can still walk only furthers my speculation that he knows John is Jacob…I think Widmore is trying to protect Jacob somehow…
OK destroy my theory, because it will help me fill in the missing pieces, because something flashed in my mind that tells me I’m on the right path, but I’m missing something…
[quote comment="235459"]But I think if Hurley REALLY saw Eko, D&C would have found a way to show us – with Hurley in the room before Sayid came in, or something.[/quote]
[quote comment="235468"]
Agreed, if the brilliant actor that plays Ekko was available.[/quote]
Okay, well let’s say AAA wasn’t available. Why Eko? Why not Ana Lucia, or Boone, or Shannon (none of whom have done all that much work since LOST).
[quote comment="235466"]
It is not the first time that Sayid has appeared and visions or apparitions disappear. I am not sure what episode you are currently watching, but In S2E6 “Abandoned”, Walt appears to Shannon then disappears when Sayid comes.[/quote]
Yes, but again… WE saw Walt. (I was getting creative with the quote and reply feature – hope it worked!)
: ) P
[quote comment="235551"][quote comment="235459"]But I think if Hurley REALLY saw Eko, D&C would have found a way to show us – with Hurley in the room before Sayid came in, or something.[/quote]
[quote comment="235468"]
Agreed, if the brilliant actor that plays Ekko was available.[/quote]
Okay, well let’s say AAA wasn’t available. Why Eko? Why not Ana Lucia, or Boone, or Shannon (none of whom have done all that much work since LOST).
[quote comment="235466"]
It is not the first time that Sayid has appeared and visions or apparitions disappear. I am not sure what episode you are currently watching, but In S2E6 “Abandoned”, Walt appears to Shannon then disappears when Sayid comes.[/quote]
Yes, but again… WE saw Walt. (I was getting creative with the quote and reply feature – hope it worked!)
: ) P[/quote]
__________________
Very impressive “quote and reply” technique! You’ll have to teach me that sometime.
I agree, by the way, not seeing Mr Eko may be important … we could even see Hurley’s imaginary friend … and HE wasn’t even there!
[quote comment="235551"]
Yes, but again… WE saw Walt. (I was getting creative with the quote and reply feature – hope it worked!)
[/quote]
Exactly my point. When Sayid enters Walt disappears just like Ekko may have.
[quote comment="235551"]
Okay, well let’s say AAA wasn’t available. Why Eko? Why not Ana Lucia, or Boone, or Shannon (none of whom have done all that much work since LOST).
[/quote]
I am not sure why they chose to use Mr. Ekko, but he was obviously more important to the island mythology then the 3 you mention. In fact did any of those 3 ever see a dead relative on the island as Ekko saw Yemi? Really, looking back now, those three contributed as much to the island as Nikki and Paulo.
You did a fine job on the quote and reply.:)
[quote comment="235698"]
Very impressive “quote and reply” technique! You’ll have to teach me that sometime.
[/quote]
You have to include the beggining (qoute comment) and the ending (quote)….give it a try.
[quote comment="235731"][quote comment="235551"]
Yes, but again… WE saw Walt. (I was getting creative with the quote and reply feature – hope it worked!)
[/quote]
Exactly my point. When Sayid enters Walt disappears just like Ekko may have.
[quote comment="235551"]
Okay, well let’s say AAA wasn’t available. Why Eko? Why not Ana Lucia, or Boone, or Shannon (none of whom have done all that much work since LOST).
[/quote]
I am not sure why they chose to use Mr. Ekko, but he was obviously more important to the island mythology then the 3 you mention. In fact did any of those 3 ever see a dead relative on the island as Ekko saw Yemi? Really, looking back now, those three contributed as much to the island as Nikki and Paulo.
You did a fine job on the quote and reply.:)[/quote]
+++++++++++++++
I agree, Eko’s walking stick had info that Locke used about island. I think the character was supposed to have more to do with island before the actor decided to move on(I think actor left to do other work). Now they can use him since he can be invisible. The whisperers control when they are seen and who will see them.
[quote comment="235733"]
You have to include[/quote]
Yes …
[quote comment="235733"]
the beggining (quote comment)[/quote]
uh-huh …
[quote comment="235733"]
and the ending (quote)[/quote]
go on …
[quote comment="235733"]
….give it a try.[/quote]
OK … I will!
(How’d I do?)
[quote comment="235758"]I agree, Eko’s walking stick had info that Locke used about island. I think the character was supposed to have more to do with island before the actor decided to move on(I think actor left to do other work). Now they can use him since he can be invisible. The whisperers control when they are seen and who will see them.[/quote]
I believe that AAA only signed on to do one year. I remember D&C saying that was part of the deal. Same with Michelle Rodriguez. Why on earth, as I have said before, would ANY actor willingly CHOOSE to limit their contract on a wild hit show, is beyond me. But that is what was reported.
I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the relevance of our NOT seeing Mr. Eko playing chess at Santa Rosa. It seems like most of you see it as proof that Charlie *IS* dead. I don’t. I can live with that! LOL
: ) P
[quote comment="230074"]
Eko = Adewale A = DUI = dead character
[/quote]
[quote comment="235790"]
I believe that AAA only signed on to do one year…
Why on earth, as I have said before, would ANY actor willingly CHOOSE to limit their contract on a wild hit show, is beyond me.
[/quote]
Some one reported above that AAA “triple-A” had a DUI. I checked it out. Not true. AAA was pulled-over, had an invalid license… and then was disruptive (combative) with law enforcement. [probably as bad as a DUI IMO].
What would have been cool is if, when playing chess, a chess piece had moved opposite Hurley… but no one had seen it (except us of course).
[quote comment="235818"]What would have been cool is if, when playing chess, a chess piece had moved opposite Hurley… but no one had seen it (except us of course).[/quote]
I totally expected that to happen cause they played that creepy music for a second after Hurley said his name…that would have been cool, oh well.
[quote comment="236026"][quote comment="235818"]What would have been cool is if, when playing chess, a chess piece had moved opposite Hurley… but no one had seen it (except us of course).[/quote]
I totally expected that to happen cause they played that creepy music for a second after Hurley said his name…that would have been cool, oh well.[/quote]
**************************************
i agree…that would’ve been VERY cool…;)
Finally made it through ALL of the posts up to #1148…
The most confusing thing to me is why anyone would think ‘Heroes’ is even comparable to the quality of LOST. I liked ‘Heroes’ when it came out 7 years ago and was called ‘Smallville’.
BTW, I really like the polar bear theory.
January is too far away…
[quote comment="234935"]Hi Leah, with no new episodes to discuss, things have sure slowed down! How will we ever survive until January?[/quote]/////////////////////////////
maybe a game or a competition to keep the old brain matter sharp ? any idea s ?
[quote comment="235818"]What would have been cool is if, when playing chess, a chess piece had moved opposite Hurley… but no one had seen it (except us of course).[/quote]
I agree! I actually thought the chess piece that Hurley moved changed colors when I watched the episode the first time! I had to re-watch it a couple of times after to realize it was just a weird camera angle.
[quote comment="236141"]
I liked ‘Heroes’ when it came out 7 years ago and was called ‘Smallville’.
[/quote]
Heroes is actually much different than Smallville. The two really aren’t even comparable. Heroes is much more comparable to LOST, although I agree not as good. Damon worked for ( Crossing Jordan ) and is good friends with the show creator Tim Kring. I didn’t watch the first season of heroes until just before last fall, because LOST wasn’t coming back until January. I watched the whole first season in about 4 days. It really is a good show for people that enjoy good TV, like LOST. If anyone else is a fan and know of a good heroes blog, please let me know. Heroes comes out in the fall and will get me thru until Jan. 29.
OK, rewatched this morning. On the way to the island they threw out anything that wasn’t bolted down in the chopper. When they headed back and the island disapeered there was a life boat and verst. They were only on the freighter 3-4 minutes. I can see them loading vests, maybe but not a lifeboat. I guess we can chalk this up to a production error.
Attention HEROES fans…
In an effort to give you a place to gather to discuss LOST, I started a new “little island.” Except that this is the “basement” at Primatech Paper.
Please feel free to stop in and talk about HEROES while we wait (perhaps not too patiently) for the return of LOST.
http://HeroesNotLOST.blogspot.com
: ) P
I re-watched today too and noticed a couple of things…
1. Do you think Alpert shot Keamy in the back on purpose knowing that it wouldn’t really kill him?
2. Do you think Jack couldn’t kill Locke when he tried because the island wouldn’t let him?
3. This is not really a question and it’s a little out there…but assuming that Richard is the real leader of the Others, what if when the island is moved, anyone who has died on the island now suddenly is part of Richard’s group of Others? I just thought it was weird that when they showed up to help Kate free Ben, the first thing anyone heard were the whispers…what if when the island is moved, the whisperers finally become part of the island by joining the Alpert crew?
[quote comment="236344"]Attention HEROES fans…
In an effort to give you a place to gather to discuss LOST, I started a new “little island.” Except that this is the “basement” at Primatech Paper.
Please feel free to stop in and talk about HEROES while we wait (perhaps not too patiently) for the return of LOST.
http://HeroesNotLOST.blogspot.com
: ) P[/quote]
Thanks PJ!!
[quote comment="236344"]Attention HEROES fans…
In an effort to give you a place to gather to discuss LOST, I started a new “little island.” Except that this is the “basement” at Primatech Paper.
Please feel free to stop in and talk about HEROES while we wait (perhaps not too patiently) for the return of LOST.
http://HeroesNotLOST.blogspot.com
: ) P[/quote]
TY PJ. You are quite the blogmaker. I joined this blog this year and just went strolling through the archives and found a couple of “Heroes” topics. I found them pretty interesting. Someone mentioned that Desmond’s physicist friend also appeared in heroes as a physics professor and he does. Also, the pilot from the plane ( JJ’s childhood friend )is a main character ( Parkman ).
I hate to say I told you so, but this is what I said at the end of last year’s finale:
stretchlimo
Comment 540, posted 1 year ago – Quote and reply
Someone mentioned they think the final scene of this season is also the final scene in the series. I think it may be a scene from an upcoming episode, and following episodes will be how Jack & Kate go back to the island to complete some unfinished business.
Also, after reading nearly all of the comments, I don’t recall seeing any that say Ben may be telling the truth about Naomi’s boat.
to all,nothing much doing..so..signing off til christmas , bye for now..x x
Going back to the episodes in the first season, I see that the writers were setting up the Jack’s camp versus Locke’s camp right at the beginning. In fact, there were even some actual references to “are you going with Jack, or are you going with Locke” within the episodes.
What other underlying themes have we seen throughout the series? We’ve had the obvious, good v. bad, man v. nature, man v. the island. Any others?
: ) P
[quote comment="236336"]OK, rewatched this morning. On the way to the island they threw out anything that wasn’t bolted down in the chopper. When they headed back and the island disapeered there was a life boat and verst. They were only on the freighter 3-4 minutes. I can see them loading vests, maybe but not a lifeboat. I guess we can chalk this up to a production error.[/quote]
*****************************************
Actually, i’m pretty sure if you watch closely you can see Sayid either grabbing or being handed the lifeboat (it’s pretty small before being inflated) in the frenzy right before they take off again…i’ll try to watch it again this week and confirm…;)
[quote comment="236284"][quote comment="236141"]
I liked ‘Heroes’ when it came out 7 years ago and was called ‘Smallville’.
[/quote]
Heroes is actually much different than Smallville. The two really aren’t even comparable. Heroes is much more comparable to LOST, although I agree not as good. Damon worked for ( Crossing Jordan ) and is good friends with the show creator Tim Kring. I didn’t watch the first season of heroes until just before last fall, because LOST wasn’t coming back until January. I watched the whole first season in about 4 days. It really is a good show for people that enjoy good TV, like LOST. If anyone else is a fan and know of a good heroes blog, please let me know. Heroes comes out in the fall and will get me thru until Jan. 29.[/quote]
————————-
I really did try to get through the first few discs of Heroes Season 1. I just never found that point where I was hooked like with LOST. It just didn’t seem as innovative. Of course, that might be an unfair comparison. If you can think of an episode that might change my mind let me know.
[quote comment="236713"]I hate to say I told you so, but this is what I said at the end of last year’s finale:
stretchlimo
Comment 540, posted 1 year ago – Quote and reply
Someone mentioned they think the final scene of this season is also the final scene in the series. I think it may be a scene from an upcoming episode, and following episodes will be how Jack & Kate go back to the island to complete some unfinished business.
Also, after reading nearly all of the comments, I don’t recall seeing any that say Ben may be telling the truth about Naomi’s boat.[/quote]
are you just stupid too….what do you want a medal….i missed all your brilliant predictions in between….i apoligise to the rest of you for earlier posts….this guy is a complete retard….i would have capitalized retard if you all weren’t so smart….RETARD….
Heres what I don’t understand about everybody claiming that Desmond moved the island when he turned the key…. it is completely irrelevant! I don’t really expect the producers of the show to go back and explain that Desmond moved the island when it has pretty much no bearing on the outcome of the remaining two seasons. The only thing that matters is where/when the island was moved to when Ben moved it. I would love to hear some proof or at least some clues besides the sky turning purple that Desmond moved the island. And remember, Locke saw Desmond running through the jungle naked and that seemed to be right after the implosion, so I don’t think Desmond traveled anywhere, although he did have that flashback (which could have been a dream). Ben on the other hand physically moved to the desert.
[quote comment="241673"]Heres what I don’t understand about everybody claiming that Desmond moved the island when he turned the key…. it is completely irrelevant! I don’t really expect the producers of the show to go back and explain that Desmond moved the island when it has pretty much no bearing on the outcome of the remaining two seasons. The only thing that matters is where/when the island was moved to when Ben moved it. I would love to hear some proof or at least some clues besides the sky turning purple that Desmond moved the island. And remember, Locke saw Desmond running through the jungle naked and that seemed to be right after the implosion, so I don’t think Desmond traveled anywhere, although he did have that flashback (which could have been a dream). Ben on the other hand physically moved to the desert.[/quote]
I think if Desmond turning the key meant that Widmore was able to find the island…thus the two guys in the snow station who called Penny…then yes, it does matter and it is relevant.
[quote comment="242062"][quote comment="241673"]Heres what I don’t understand about everybody claiming that Desmond moved the island when he turned the key…. it is completely irrelevant! I don’t really expect the producers of the show to go back and explain that Desmond moved the island when it has pretty much no bearing on the outcome of the remaining two seasons. The only thing that matters is where/when the island was moved to when Ben moved it. I would love to hear some proof or at least some clues besides the sky turning purple that Desmond moved the island. And remember, Locke saw Desmond running through the jungle naked and that seemed to be right after the implosion, so I don’t think Desmond traveled anywhere, although he did have that flashback (which could have been a dream). Ben on the other hand physically moved to the desert.[/quote]
I think if Desmond turning the key meant that Widmore was able to find the island…thus the two guys in the snow station who called Penny…then yes, it does matter and it is relevant.[/quote]
Not relevant to the rest of the show, so probably not gonna talk about it anymore, so therefore no reason to argue that the event moved the island
Disagree Jaru.
Two purple sky events:
D&C even touted that there would be ANOTHER purple sky event (ie. Ben moving the island). This makes Des turning the key very relevant. I for one want to know what was THE PURPOSE of the fail safe key if turning it had the same purple sky effect as actually moving the island using the frozen donkey wheel.
I think this was mentioned on this posting before, but it’s been awhile. Someone mentioned before that there is some sort of relevant information in the pilot episode. I rewatched that episode recently, and the opening scene is the close-up of Jack’s eye when he is laying in the jungle. Then he also finds a bottle of liquor in his jacket pocket. Then at some point Vincent ran by. When the showed his flashback to when he was on the plane, the stewardess (I’m drawing a blank on her name) came over and gave him a free bottle of the liquor – which I thought he poured into his drink and drank it. Well, he later used that bottle to pour on his wound to disinfect it. Anyway, I think that this was a very key moment. Any thoughts on this??
[quote comment="241673"]Heres what I don’t understand about everybody claiming that Desmond moved the island when he turned the key…. it is completely irrelevant! I don’t really expect the producers of the show to go back and explain that Desmond moved the island when it has pretty much no bearing on the outcome of the remaining two seasons. The only thing that matters is where/when the island was moved to when Ben moved it. I would love to hear some proof or at least some clues besides the sky turning purple that Desmond moved the island. And remember, Locke saw Desmond running through the jungle naked and that seemed to be right after the implosion, so I don’t think Desmond traveled anywhere, although he did have that flashback (which could have been a dream). Ben on the other hand physically moved to the desert.[/quote]
I thought Desmond traveled through time, consciously, after turning the key. Just as he did in the constant episode, but maybe it was a dream. How do we know that Des turning the key has no “relevance” on the outcome of the final 2 seasons? But, you may be right, the producers NEVER delve back into the past (wink).
[quote comment="242469"]I think this was mentioned on this posting before, but it’s been awhile. Someone mentioned before that there is some sort of relevant information in the pilot episode. I rewatched that episode recently, and the opening scene is the close-up of Jack’s eye when he is laying in the jungle. Then he also finds a bottle of liquor in his jacket pocket. Then at some point Vincent ran by. When the showed his flashback to when he was on the plane, the stewardess (I’m drawing a blank on her name) came over and gave him a free bottle of the liquor – which I thought he poured into his drink and drank it. Well, he later used that bottle to pour on his wound to disinfect it. Anyway, I think that this was a very key moment. Any thoughts on this??[/quote]
It has been specualeted before that the baton Ben used was lying next to Jack in the opening scene. This is from the thread TNPLH part 1.
That didn’t work to well. But take a look at these 2.
bp1.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zlCw/S…
That is from Ben in the desert. Take a close look at the baton. Now take a look at this screencap from the PILOT episode.
bp2.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S…
Is that it? It’s hard for me to tell. The opening scene of Ben’s FF did remind me of Jack in the pilot episode, although Jack didn’t puke like Ben.
As for the liquor bottle being the same, not sure about that. Did he pull the bottle from his pocket and then directly use it? Or was it another scene later in the episode? I can’t remember, but the plane would have been full of mini-liquor bottles.
Bailey,
I saw on another blog something that might one of the things that was relevant about the first episode. Keep in mind, the name of the first episode is “Pilot”. Frank said he was supposed to be the pilot of 815. The actual pilot was killed by Smokey for no apparent reason. We have learned this season that Smokey has rules, which is why Smokey didn’t kill all of the mercs. Smokey may have killed the actual pilot because it was not his “destiny” to be on the island.
It has been specualeted before that the baton Ben used was lying next to Jack in the opening scene. This is from the thread TNPLH part 1.
That didn’t work to well. But take a look at these 2.
bp1.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zlCw/S…
That is from Ben in the desert. Take a close look at the baton. Now take a look at this screencap from the PILOT episode.
bp2.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S…
Is that it? It’s hard for me to tell. The opening scene of Ben’s FF did remind me of Jack in the pilot episode, although Jack didn’t puke like Ben.
As for the liquor bottle being the same, not sure about that. Did he pull the bottle from his pocket and then directly use it? Or was it another scene later in the episode? I can’t remember, but the plane would have been full of mini-liquor bottles.[/quote]
****
Can you send those links again? They didn’t work when I tried them.
Jack didn’t use the liquor directly, it was a few scenes later.
[quote comment="242901"]
Can you send those links again? They didn’t work when I tried them.
Jack didn’t use the liquor directly, it was a few scenes later.[/quote]
——————
My apologies. I’ll try it again. If it doesn’t work, it was comment 373 from the last thread. Just click on Archives then TNPLH part 1.
lost4ever
Comment 373, posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago – Quote and reply
lost4ever wrote:
ANON2 wrote:
No one has mentioned the telescoping baton yet.
We didn’t see him use it as a telescope. I believe it is the same weapon that he used in the desert. It looked like he had it behind his back. Here are the 2 screencaps. Note the wardrobe change. Shirt with a collar. Shirt without.
bp1.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zlCw/S…
That didn’t work to well. But take a look at these 2.
bp1.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zlCw/S…
That is from Ben in the desert. Take a close look at the baton. Now take a look at this screencap from the PILOT episode.
bp2.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S…
Is that it? It’s hard for me to tell. The opening scene of Ben’s FF did remind me of Jack in the pilot episode, although Jack didn’t puke like Ben
———————
I am looking forward to Monday’s this fall. Aside from the fantastic show Heroes, LOST will be airing on Sci-Fi. For more info look under the “Fantasy League” thread.
Cindy, sthe stewardess gave Jack 2 bottles of liquor. One he pored into his drink and one he put in his pocket. On the island he drank some and then saved the rest for his wound.
Desmond turning the key made the island “visible” for a while. It led toWidmore finding it. Moving the island made it “impossible” for Widmore to find again. The two things are different but related.
I think that the hatch was like a storage bin for power (electromagnic) created by the island. They had to push the button every 108 minutes to “let off steam” from the tank so it wouldn’t overload. When Locke broke the computer Desmond had to turn the failsafe key to prevent the storage tank from building up too much energy and destroying the island. Turning the key “blew the hatch” on the tank and released all the currently storred power. The release of this power is how Penny’s men were able to see the island for a moment and then track it down.
When Ben moved the island he drew on some of the same island energy but concentrated in a different way. This also released energy causing a purple sky but since the island is now somewhere else that won’t help Widmore find them again.
The person moving the island ending up somewhere else seems like a bouncing effect of some sort. Like a rebound or the kickback when a gun is fired. My question is why can’t you go back once you move the island. Is it because you can’t find it anymore? or because you could be tracked there or harm the island in some way?
I’d also like to know where the island went. It is a tropical island as we know it. Some have speculated that it went somewhere cold. If it does more somewhere with a different climet each time than the vegitation would not be so lush and full. If it had been recently moved to where we know it there would be no way for the seeds and such of tropical plants to get there and germinate and to grow so large. Either the island stayes in the same slimit zone always or it hasn’t been moved for a very long time.
[quote comment="243438"]I’d also like to know where the island went. It is a tropical island as we know it. Some have speculated that it went somewhere cold. If it does more somewhere with a different climet each time than the vegitation would not be so lush and full. If it had been recently moved to where we know it there would be no way for the seeds and such of tropical plants to get there and germinate and to grow so large. Either the island stayes in the same slimit zone always or it hasn’t been moved for a very long time.[/quote]
****
That’s a very interesting idea – the island moving to a different climate. Maybe that’s how the polar bears once survived on the island. If it did move someplace cold how would the people left on the island adapt to that?
Also, I thought pushing the button in the hatch was resetting time.
[quote comment="243438"]I’d also like to know where the island went. It is a tropical island as we know it. Some have speculated that it went somewhere cold. If it does more somewhere with a different climet each time than the vegitation would not be so lush and full. If it had been recently moved to where we know it there would be no way for the seeds and such of tropical plants to get there and germinate and to grow so large. Either the island stayes in the same slimit zone always or it hasn’t been moved for a very long time.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Wasn’t there clues about a snow globe early on? Maybe the island is in sort of a “tropical globe” and climate doesn’t matter?
[quote comment="244684"][quote comment="243438"]I’d also like to know where the island went. It is a tropical island as we know it. Some have speculated that it went somewhere cold. If it does more somewhere with a different climet each time than the vegitation would not be so lush and full. If it had been recently moved to where we know it there would be no way for the seeds and such of tropical plants to get there and germinate and to grow so large. Either the island stayes in the same slimit zone always or it hasn’t been moved for a very long time.[/quote]
++++++++++++++++++
Wasn’t there clues about a snow globe early on? Maybe the island is in sort of a “tropical globe” and climate doesn’t matter?[/quote]
*****
In season two when Desmond’s boat was floating just off the beach. He told the Losties that he was sailing for days and kept ending up at the island. He referred to it as like being in a snow globe.
Bobola
Comment 74, posted 15 hours, 38 minutes ago – Quote and reply
To hell with the numbers;
I want to know how the hell Freckles was able to get off from the crimes the Police were chasing her for?
All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
From lostpedia:
Her mother was to be the “star witness” against Kate. Kate’s mother was weakened by a terminal illness: she explained that she did not want to testify, and would not if she was allowed to see her “grandson”. Kate refused, but Diane still did not testify. (“Eggtown”)
After this development, the prosecution offered Kate a deal: 10 years of probation and confinement to the state of California.