Jughead

desmond_season5.jpg

Tonight’s episode is more Island-focused, which means there should be a bit of excitement given the way things ended last week. However, we will see Desmond try to follow-up on Farraday’s request to find his mother. That could help solve one of the lingering questions from last week – are Faraday’s mother and Ms. Hawking one in the same? The chalkboard scribble did reek of a trait passed down from mother to son, but I am not totally convinced yet…

ABC’s Official Show Description

Spoiler Alert

“Desmond goes in search of Faraday’s mother who could be the key to helping Daniel stop the island’s erratic movements through time, and Locke discovers the identity of the unknown forces who have been attacking the survivors.”

The first two episodes of Season 5 have opened up a number of questions (go figure) – here are a few to ponder as we prepare for the third episode tonight – let us know what you think about the following:

  • Who hired Dan Norton (the attorney that harassed Kate about the maternity test)?
  • If “the rules” don’t apply to Desmond, does that mean he can alter the present by changing something in the past?
  • Why the 70 hour window to get back to the Island?

Jughead Preview

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578 Responses to Jughead

  1. Robert says:

    I hope this is sufficiently on topic, but I tend to think the pre-episode write-ups you make are almost entirely spoilers, even though it seems that your basic write-ups contain information that is generally considered part of what one can expect from a preview. Is it just me, are my expectations on what is a spoiler different from yours? I almost want your day-of-episode posts to say “(spoilers)”.

    Don’t get me wrong, your posts are awesome. Thanks!

  2. Rita says:

    Only a few more hours to some more answers (I hope!)!! I have to add to Will’s list of questions I hope get answered:
    1. Who is Faraday’s mother?
    2. What is Sun up to?
    3. Who are the soldiers and the flame throwers?
    4. Where are the freighter survivors – like Jin hopefully?
    This is just getting started, I want answers to EVERYTHING!!! How about the rest of you?

  3. Hammer says:

    Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?

  4. Hammer says:

    Oh and why did Ben’s Others ‘bury’ their dead by putting them in the ocean? Locke’s comment about things don’t stay buried?

  5. PJSander says:

    The way I see it, we have 32 odd hours left for them to answer all the questions. I think that if I started now and wrote a question every minute for 32 hours, I wouldn’t have written down all the questions! LOL.

    : ) P

  6. Will says:

    [quote comment=”310126″]I hope this is sufficiently on topic, but I tend to think the pre-episode write-ups you make are almost entirely spoilers, even though it seems that your basic write-ups contain information that is generally considered part of what one can expect from a preview. Is it just me, are my expectations on what is a spoiler different from yours? I almost want your day-of-episode posts to say “(spoilers)”.

    Don’t get me wrong, your posts are awesome. Thanks![/quote]
    Robert – the spoiler issue is always a contentious one – I dread going to almost any lost-related website now because you typically see reviews and dissections of things to come in the next 5 episodes, especially in a Season like this one where all the episodes are essentially finished and have been leaked. In order to make things interesting, we inevitably have to allude to things that take place in the pre-show post, however you’ll notice that we don’t post til day of, and we only embed the preview from the conclusion of last week’s show. We have the links to the sneak peeks if people want to see them, but that’s optional.

  7. Will says:

    [quote comment=”310163″]Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?[/quote]
    Hammer – how far back in time do you think the Island went last week during the “skipping”? I’m curious because everything I’ve researched would say not that far back, but the flaming arrows would indicate warfare of significantly further back, especially given the fact that DHARMA had heavy artillery…

  8. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310165″]The way I see it, we have 32 odd hours left for them to answer all the questions. I think that if I started now and wrote a question every minute for 32 hours, I wouldn’t have written down all the questions! LOL.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    haha PJ! I’m with you. I have a feeling that many question will never get answered, but I still want to know! Maybe when it’s all over, D&C can hold a sort of de-briefing for us die-hard LOSTies.
    And Hammer, I want to know all your Post # 3 and 4 questions too, I forgot all about the burial at sea thing, so thanks alot, now I have even MORE burning questions!

  9. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310167″][quote comment=”310163″]Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?[/quote]
    Hammer – how far back in time do you think the Island went last week during the “skipping”? I’m curious because everything I’ve researched would say not that far back, but the flaming arrows would indicate warfare of significantly further back, especially given the fact that DHARMA had heavy artillery…[/quote]
    Well, the arrows are curious, but we didn’t see a skip occur between the arrows and the military folks catching S & J. So I don’t think that was more than 50 or 60 years. My guess is that they stumbled on the Hostiles fighting off DHARMA or more likeley someone else that was trying to take over the island during the time when the rifles would have been used and they managed to obtain some of the guns from their attackers. In other words, the Hostiles have acquired weapons over the years by defeating attackers, but didn’t have enough for everyone, so they still used flaming arrows in the time we saw S &J skip to.

    I HOPE that they can skip back to when the statue was built so we can see about a four toed being.

  10. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310167″][quote comment=”310163″]Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?[/quote]
    Hammer – how far back in time do you think the Island went last week during the “skipping”? I’m curious because everything I’ve researched would say not that far back, but the flaming arrows would indicate warfare of significantly further back, especially given the fact that DHARMA had heavy artillery…[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Will, I hope you don’t mind if I respond?
    Your comment opens up a whole new line of thinking for me. How far back did they go? If Dharma had already mastered the time travel thing, they could have sent people – soldiers – “way back” so to speak (for whatever purpose). Our LOSTies, could have gone back far enough to meet the time traveling Dharma-ites, AND the original island inhabitants (the flame throwers). Wow, we cant’ really know ANYTHING for sure at this point, can we???

  11. Will says:

    [quote comment=”310170″][quote comment=”310167″][quote comment=”310163″]Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?

    Hammer – how far back in time do you think the Island went last week during the “skipping”? I’m curious because everything I’ve researched would say not that far back, but the flaming arrows would indicate warfare of significantly further back, especially given the fact that DHARMA had heavy artillery…
    ____________________________________
    Will, I hope you don’t mind if I respond?
    Your comment opens up a whole new line of thinking for me. How far back did they go? If Dharma had already mastered the time travel thing, they could have sent people – soldiers – “way back” so to speak (for whatever purpose). Our LOSTies, could have gone back far enough to meet the time traveling Dharma-ites, AND the original island inhabitants (the flame throwers). Wow, we cant’ really know ANYTHING for sure at this point, can we???[/quote]

    Right – and it gets even more headache inducing when you start questioning how many things we have seen in the past couple of seasons that were altered by the Island skipping we are seeing now…

  12. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310171″][quote comment=”310170″][quote comment=”310167″][quote comment=”310163″]Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?

    Hammer – how far back in time do you think the Island went last week during the “skipping”? I’m curious because everything I’ve researched would say not that far back, but the flaming arrows would indicate warfare of significantly further back, especially given the fact that DHARMA had heavy artillery…
    ____________________________________
    Will, I hope you don’t mind if I respond?
    Your comment opens up a whole new line of thinking for me. How far back did they go? If Dharma had already mastered the time travel thing, they could have sent people – soldiers – “way back” so to speak (for whatever purpose). Our LOSTies, could have gone back far enough to meet the time traveling Dharma-ites, AND the original island inhabitants (the flame throwers). Wow, we cant’ really know ANYTHING for sure at this point, can we???[/quote]

    Right – and it gets even more headache inducing when you start questioning how many things we have seen in the past couple of seasons that were altered by the Island skipping we are seeing now…[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    You’re blowing my mind Will! It will be really interesting once this is over, to re-watch the entire thing from the vantage point of knowing what is really happening – I expect we will see all kinds of things, clues, that we missed because we made assumptions.

  13. Hammer says:

    Here’s one for ya…strap on your boots.

    Valenzetti came up with that formula that predicts the end of the world. The numbers are the factors. DHARMA screwed something up by changing something in the past and Valenzetti’s equation found the resulting ‘D Day’ so to speak. DHARMA used the island to try to find a way to change one of the factors to ‘save’ the world, but was stopped by the purge. Now, Ms. Hawking has found the island and now nows that it has 70 hours until the end of world. In effect, Ben’s group is changing a number to ‘save us all’.

    Is Ms. Hawking’s scribblings actually Valentzetti’s equation?

  14. Toeknee says:

    So this is where everyone disappeared to!

    Well, like I was saying, when Desmond met Daniel in 1996 –

    Ah forget it…

  15. Hammer says:

    ****crickets chirping******
    I’ve either busted everyone’s brain cells or you are all still on the floor laughing. :)

  16. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310184″]So this is where everyone disappeared to!

    Well, like I was saying, when Desmond met Daniel in 1996 –

    Ah forget it…[/quote]
    ROTFL. Yep, here we are.

  17. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310182″]Here’s one for ya…strap on your boots.

    Valenzetti came up with that formula that predicts the end of the world. The numbers are the factors. DHARMA screwed something up by changing something in the past and Valenzetti’s equation found the resulting ‘D Day’ so to speak. DHARMA used the island to try to find a way to change one of the factors to ‘save’ the world, but was stopped by the purge. Now, Ms. Hawking has found the island and now nows that it has 70 hours until the end of world. In effect, Ben’s group is changing a number to ‘save us all’.

    Is Ms. Hawking’s scribblings actually Valentzetti’s equation?[/quote]
    That would be an interesting twist. But I can’t imagine it would be a major plot point because at least 95% of the viewers have no idea what Valenzetti’s equation is.

  18. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310190″]That would be an interesting twist. But I can’t imagine it would be a major plot point because at least 95% of the viewers have no idea what Valenzetti’s equation is.[/quote]
    +++++
    True, but the numbers are significant to the plot and DHARMA objective was to change them. Most viewers can’t handle the time traveling paradoxes either, but they are still in the show.

  19. PJSander says:

    By George, Hammer, I think you’ve got it. Or at least stumbled close to it. WOW.

    : ) P

  20. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310192″][quote comment=”310190″]That would be an interesting twist. But I can’t imagine it would be a major plot point because at least 95% of the viewers have no idea what Valenzetti’s equation is.[/quote]
    +++++
    True, but the numbers are significant to the plot and DHARMA objective was to change them. Most viewers can’t handle the time traveling paradoxes either, but they are still in the show.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Just to add to it.

    I couldn’t wrap my head around why the world is in trouble if the group doesn’t get back to the island. I mean to ask, “What is the REAL reason why they have to get back?” Yeah to save the world, but WHY? What does it change or unchange. So I started pondering recurring themes. And BANG, the numbers. They told us about them early on for a reason…I think.

  21. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310167″][quote comment=”310163″]Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?[/quote]
    Hammer – how far back in time do you think the Island went last week during the “skipping”? I’m curious because everything I’ve researched would say not that far back, but the flaming arrows would indicate warfare of significantly further back, especially given the fact that DHARMA had heavy artillery…[/quote]

    _____________________________________________

    The Others might use flaming arrows to appear low-tech.[quote comment=”310172″][quote comment=”310171″][quote comment=”310170″][quote comment=”310167″][quote comment=”310163″]Why aren’t the true ‘Others’ effected by the time skipping?

    How far back in time can they go?

    What about the statue?

    Hammer – how far back in time do you think the Island went last week during the “skipping”? I’m curious because everything I’ve researched would say not that far back, but the flaming arrows would indicate warfare of significantly further back, especially given the fact that DHARMA had heavy artillery…
    ____________________________________
    Will, I hope you don’t mind if I respond?
    Your comment opens up a whole new line of thinking for me. How far back did they go? If Dharma had already mastered the time travel thing, they could have sent people – soldiers – “way back” so to speak (for whatever purpose). Our LOSTies, could have gone back far enough to meet the time traveling Dharma-ites, AND the original island inhabitants (the flame throwers). Wow, we cant’ really know ANYTHING for sure at this point, can we???[/quote]

    Right – and it gets even more headache inducing when you start questioning how many things we have seen in the past couple of seasons that were altered by the Island skipping we are seeing now…[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    You’re blowing my mind Will! It will be really interesting once this is over, to re-watch the entire thing from the vantage point of knowing what is really happening – I expect we will see all kinds of things, clues, that we missed because we made assumptions.[/quote]

    ________________________________________

    Season 1, episode “Deux ex Machina”, Locke is unable to climb up to the plane becuase his left leg is mysteriously hurt.

  22. sector7 says:

    Sorry for the long quote and reply in comment 21. I know we made a point of trying to avoid that last season. I’ll edit a bit next time. ;P

  23. LINS says:

    Well, the others are pretty primitive themselves, they can walk through the jungle barefoot without making noise, Jacob refuses to use “man-made” light sources (flashlights), when jack and kate and sawyer went after michael (i think) in the second (?) season and friendly tom confronted them and he told them to “light them up” they all had torches, so it’s possible that the flaming arrows are not that old…maybe? the confusing part is that there wasn’t a flash between that and the crazy arm hacking soldiers…?

  24. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310203″]Well, the others are pretty primitive themselves, they can walk through the jungle barefoot without making noise, Jacob refuses to use “man-made” light sources (flashlights), when jack and kate and sawyer went after michael (i think) in the second (?) season and friendly tom confronted them and he told them to “light them up” they all had torches, so it’s possible that the flaming arrows are not that old…maybe? the confusing part is that there wasn’t a flash between that and the crazy arm hacking soldiers…?[/quote]
    +++++++
    Good point, maybe the arrow flingers and gun wielders were in battle with each other. We assumed that are on the same side.

  25. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310195″][quote comment=”310192″][quote comment=”310190″]That would be an interesting twist. But I can’t imagine it would be a major plot point because at least 95% of the viewers have no idea what Valenzetti’s equation is.[/quote]
    +++++
    True, but the numbers are significant to the plot and DHARMA objective was to change them. Most viewers can’t handle the time traveling paradoxes either, but they are still in the show.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Just to add to it.

    I couldn’t wrap my head around why the world is in trouble if the group doesn’t get back to the island. I mean to ask, “What is the REAL reason why they have to get back?” Yeah to save the world, but WHY? What does it change or unchange. So I started pondering recurring themes. And BANG, the numbers. They told us about them early on for a reason…I think.[/quote]

    ___________________________________________

    I think you’re on the right track. In “Flashes before my eyes”, Ms. Hawking told Des he has to go to the island or it will be the end for all of us. Des is the reason 815 crashes there. It’s looking like our losties have to be on the island or it’s the end for all of us. The losties being on the island must be the part of the “equation” necessary for the end of the world NOT to happen. How could the losties and the numbers be related to each other?

  26. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310204″][quote comment=”310203″]Well, the others are pretty primitive themselves, they can walk through the jungle barefoot without making noise, Jacob refuses to use “man-made” light sources (flashlights), when jack and kate and sawyer went after michael (i think) in the second (?) season and friendly tom confronted them and he told them to “light them up” they all had torches, so it’s possible that the flaming arrows are not that old…maybe? the confusing part is that there wasn’t a flash between that and the crazy arm hacking soldiers…?[/quote]
    +++++++
    Good point, maybe the arrow flingers and gun wielders were in battle with each other. We assumed that are on the same side.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    It could explain WHY the Others had the costumes of the primitives – running around dirty and barefoot, etc., if Dharma had at some point in their past been fighting with primitives (how distant past??)they could infiltrate and blend in with the island’s original inhabitants using the costumes. I think the soldiers and the flame throwers were fighting each other and the LOSTies wandered into it. We’ve seen some of the soldiers, why not any of the flame throwers?

  27. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310204″][quote comment=”310203″]Well, the others are pretty primitive themselves, they can walk through the jungle barefoot without making noise, Jacob refuses to use “man-made” light sources (flashlights), when jack and kate and sawyer went after michael (i think) in the second (?) season and friendly tom confronted them and he told them to “light them up” they all had torches, so it’s possible that the flaming arrows are not that old…maybe? the confusing part is that there wasn’t a flash between that and the crazy arm hacking soldiers…?[/quote]
    +++++++
    Good point, maybe the arrow flingers and gun wielders were in battle with each other. We assumed that are on the same side.[/quote]

    *****************
    well, just watched the sneak peaks and they may blow this little theory…anyone else watch them yet? so excited for tonight…

  28. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310208″][quote comment=”310195″][quote comment=”310192″][quote comment=”310190″] [/quote]
    [/quote]
    +++++++
    Just to add to it.

    I couldn’t wrap my head around why the world is in trouble if the group doesn’t get back to the island. I mean to ask, “What is the REAL reason why they have to get back?” Yeah to save the world, but WHY? What does it change or unchange. So I started pondering recurring themes. And BANG, the numbers. They told us about them early on for a reason…I think.[/quote]

    ___________________________________________

    I think you’re on the right track. In “Flashes before my eyes”, Ms. Hawking told Des he has to go to the island or it will be the end for all of us. Des is the reason 815 crashes there. It’s looking like our losties have to be on the island or it’s the end for all of us. The losties being on the island must be the part of the “equation” necessary for the end of the world NOT to happen. How could the losties and the numbers be related to each other?[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    It seems we may finally be asking the right questions! I think you are both onto something here. Not sure WHAT exactly yet, but I think you are right in saying that there is a REASON WHY EVERYONE has to be on the island, and that there is a time limit for this happening “or God help us all” – beyond just being dramatic. WOW – can’t wait for tonight’s episode.

  29. Walter says:

    Season 5 is going to be awesome…there are so many themes..its ridiculous.. So anyone who is a Knicks/Rangers should know of Al Trautwig, he does commentary for Knicks and Rangers and is actually a Lost fan. He started this weekly video blog..Check it out: http://blogs.msg.com/themonitor/2009/01/23/al-trautwigs-lost-thoughts-episode-1/

    it’s really awesome! he talks about his theory on how the characters just keep reliving their lives and how he thinks that Miles is the son of Dr. Marvin Candle!

  30. Miraks says:

    Hopefully we’ll get to see Faraday’s mom. My guess is still that it is not Mrs. Hawkins. If anything I can see her being Charlotte’s mom/ grandma. We don’t even know if that is her real name- since her name has never been stated on the show. Maybe her real last name is Lewis. It has been implied that Charlotte was born on the island, and she was searching for clues about it/ Dharma in Tunesia.

  31. Jaime says:

    [quote comment=”310211″][quote comment=”310204″][quote comment=”310203″]Well, the others are pretty primitive themselves, they can walk through the jungle barefoot without making noise, Jacob refuses to use “man-made” light sources (flashlights), when jack and kate and sawyer went after michael (i think) in the second (?) season and friendly tom confronted them and he told them to “light them up” they all had torches, so it’s possible that the flaming arrows are not that old…maybe? the confusing part is that there wasn’t a flash between that and the crazy arm hacking soldiers…?[/quote]
    +++++++
    Good point, maybe the arrow flingers and gun wielders were in battle with each other. We assumed that are on the same side.[/quote]

    *****************
    well, just watched the sneak peaks and they may blow this little theory…anyone else watch them yet? so excited for tonight…[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    Well besides knowing about the sneak peak (thanks) I fully agree with this theory. I think that the guys who attacked Sawyer and Juliet are Others. They call it “their island” just like Mr. Happy did.

  32. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310222″][quote comment=”310211″][quote comment=”310204″][quote comment=”310203″][/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    Well besides knowing about the sneak peak (thanks) I fully agree with this theory. I think that the guys who attacked Sawyer and Juliet are Others. They call it “their island” just like Mr. Happy did.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Yes, but WHICH Others, and at what point in time?

  33. Jaime says:

    So who, what, is Jughead? Any ideas?

    I did a little wikiopedia research on JUGHEAD and came up with a few things that i thought were interseting

    1. Jughead, a 19th century slang term meaning a mule

    2. Mark 17 nuclear bomb – Nicknamed “Jughead”

    3. The Kool-Aid Man, known in Canada as “Jug Head”

    Its got to be the Kool-Aid man :)

  34. Jaime says:

    [quote comment=”310223″][quote comment=”310222″][quote comment=”310211″][quote comment=”310204″][quote comment=”310203″][/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    Well besides knowing about the sneak peak (thanks) I fully agree with this theory. I think that the guys who attacked Sawyer and Juliet are Others. They call it “their island” just like Mr. Happy did.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Yes, but WHICH Others, and at what point in time?[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    Before Dharma time.

  35. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310225″][quote comment=”310223″][quote comment=”310222″][quote comment=”310211″][quote comment=”310204″][quote comment=”310203″][/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    Well besides knowing about the sneak peak (thanks) I fully agree with this theory. I think that the guys who attacked Sawyer and Juliet are Others. They call it “their island” just like Mr. Happy did.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Yes, but WHICH Others, and at what point in time?[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    Before Dharma time.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    So….they are the hostiles then? I don’t think so. I think they ARE Dharma, back in time. Our LOSTies have met up with Dharma in the past, the past for ALL of them – time travelers all.

  36. LINS says:

    I think they’re hostiles, they act much more like the “hostiles” than the dharma group and it makes sense that dharma would be so protective and worried about the “hostiles” given their supposed practice of cutting off hands! remember the drill they had when ben was a little boy in dharma school and when dr. candle went to record the orientation film in S5E1 he was talking about whichever station it was that was specifically for defending dharma or something like that…i think they’re hostiles…

  37. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310228″]I think they’re hostiles, they act much more like the “hostiles” than the dharma group and it makes sense that dharma would be so protective and worried about the “hostiles” given their supposed practice of cutting off hands! remember the drill they had when ben was a little boy in dharma school and when dr. candle went to record the orientation film in S5E1 he was talking about whichever station it was that was specifically for defending dharma or something like that…i think they’re hostiles…[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    The current “Others” are the former Hostiles. It if is them, including Alpert et al., they seem to have changed their ways since then. They will probably turn out to be a third group we don’t know about yet, but I still think they are early Dharma.

  38. Circus Mom says:

    I think they are using arrows because Jacob dosn’t like technology. I also think he dosn’t like it because he dosn’t want any of it to travel to a time before it should exist, thereby changing the future (of the past).

  39. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310231″]I think they are using arrows because Jacob dosn’t like technology. I also think he dosn’t like it because he dosn’t want any of it to travel to a time before it should exist, thereby changing the future (of the past).[/quote]

    good point, that makes a lot of sense now!

  40. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310224″]So who, what, is Jughead? Any ideas?

    I did a little wikiopedia research on JUGHEAD and came up with a few things that i thought were interseting

    1. Jughead, a 19th century slang term meaning a mule

    2. Mark 17 nuclear bomb – Nicknamed “Jughead”

    3. The Kool-Aid Man, known in Canada as “Jug Head”

    Its got to be the Kool-Aid man :)[/quote]
    4. The character from Archie Comics named “Jughead”?

  41. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310233″][quote comment=”310231″]I think they are using arrows because Jacob dosn’t like technology. I also think he dosn’t like it because he dosn’t want any of it to travel to a time before it should exist, thereby changing the future (of the past).[/quote]

    good point, that makes a lot of sense now![/quote]
    ____________________________________
    But I’m confused Circus Mom. Are you saying that the flame throwers are with Jacob (no technology), so THEY are the current Others/former Hostiles….then who are the technology weilding soldiers? I still think THEY are early Dharma. Not sure yet that the flame throwers are a known group, but you could be right that they are the current Others.

  42. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310234″][quote comment=”310224″]So who, what, is Jughead? Any ideas?

    I did a little wikiopedia research on JUGHEAD and came up with a few things that i thought were interseting

    1. Jughead, a 19th century slang term meaning a mule

    2. Mark 17 nuclear bomb – Nicknamed “Jughead”

    3. The Kool-Aid Man, known in Canada as “Jug Head”

    Its got to be the Kool-Aid man :)[/quote]
    4. The character from Archie Comics named “Jughead”?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I thought of him too Toe, but was thinking that he was probably named after the mule reference. I like the Kool-Aide Man idea (just kidding :)

  43. omar says:

    i said time travel 4 years ago..but now im just lost…Desmond is the key to this whole mystery

  44. Dawn says:

    Did anyone notice that when Jack said to Ben he is dead Ben did not say yes or no

  45. Dawn says:

    Did anyone notice that when Jack said to Ben he is dead (Locke)Ben did not say yes or no

  46. Runamuck says:

    the people have to be on the island so the valenzetti equation will work.. kinda like how they needed Arthurt Dents brain to make earth 2 since Arthur dent was part of the computer that was earth… kinda like the losties are part of a big island computer… working on an equation…

  47. lostmama says:

    ughh what happened so far I missed it and didn’t catch it on the DVR either

  48. LINS says:

    wasn’t dan’s time traveling rat also named eloise…perhaps after his mother?

    i totally thought that chick that came out with the gun in the very beginning was going to be rousseau…bummer :)

  49. lostmama says:

    yeah I’m pretty sure that was the rats name too

  50. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”310235″][quote comment=”310233″][quote comment=”310231″]I think they are using arrows because Jacob dosn’t like technology. I also think he dosn’t like it because he dosn’t want any of it to travel to a time before it should exist, thereby changing the future (of the past).[/quote]

    good point, that makes a lot of sense now![/quote]
    ____________________________________
    But I’m confused Circus Mom. Are you saying that the flame throwers are with Jacob (no technology), so THEY are the current Others/former Hostiles….then who are the technology weilding soldiers? I still think THEY are early Dharma. Not sure yet that the flame throwers are a known group, but you could be right that they are the current Others.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    I guess I am saying that the arrow folk are the islands origional inhabitants. Probably Richard and his crew. I’m not sure Dharma folk would be running around cutting off hands.
    I do find it interesting that the hatch devoted to protecting the Dharma group from the hostils is called the Arrow. Somehow I don’t think this is a coinsidence.

    I am now reconsidering that Jack is Adam. Don’t know who Eve is yet but I am basing this on the fact that Jack took the black and white stones from Adam and put them in his pocket and that Ben and Locke are so insistant that Jack has to return to the island. Somehow I don’t think Eve is either Juliette or Kate. just a feeling

  51. Hammer says:

    Jughead is a bomb. My guess about the Others obtaining weapons from the enemies panned out!

  52. Snaisy says:

    Good call! they are Richard’s crew! Faraday said “nothing is going to happen to you-i wont let it” to Charlotte. Does this mean you CAN change the past? If so, why did he tell Sawyer that?

  53. LINS says:

    dan was surprisingly brave in front of alpert…usually, he’s the one to keep the peace and play nice, wonder if he’s met alpert before?

  54. lostmama says:

    How do the “others” speak Latin a dead language, I though Alpert was a hostile not other, or are they all called other if they’re not from the plane crash? Maybe Latin is a clue to the orign / age of the hostiles

  55. lostmama says:

    How do the “others” speak Latin a dead language, I though Alpert was a orignalinhabitant not other, or are they all called other if they’re not from the plane crash? Maybe Latin is a clue to the orign / age of the original island inhabitants

  56. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310250″]
    I am now reconsidering that Jack is Adam. Don’t know who Eve is yet but I am basing this on the fact that Jack took the black and white stones from Adam and put them in his pocket and that Ben and Locke are so insistant that Jack has to return to the island. Somehow I don’t think Eve is either Juliette or Kate. just a feeling[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Good point, it has me thinking that Jack will place the stones with Adam and Eve when they die…you know when Des and Pen get back to the island and die. :)

  57. lostmama says:

    [quote comment=”310253″]dan was surprisingly brave in front of alpert…usually, he’s the one to keep the peace and play nice, wonder if he’s met alpert before?[/quote]

    I def. think so seems like he’s meet all of them before

  58. LINS says:

    who’s the girl in the picture with dan?!?

  59. lostmama says:

    who’s the woman in the pic, Des looked at that is with Faraday?

  60. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”310256″][quote comment=”310250″]
    I am now reconsidering that Jack is Adam. Don’t know who Eve is yet but I am basing this on the fact that Jack took the black and white stones from Adam and put them in his pocket and that Ben and Locke are so insistant that Jack has to return to the island. Somehow I don’t think Eve is either Juliette or Kate. just a feeling[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Good point, it has me thinking that Jack will place the stones with Adam and Eve when they die…you know when Des and Pen get back to the island and die. :)[/quote]
    +++++

    Another dead Horse. I still say Adam and Eve wern’t a couple. It may be a while before we know, or it could be in a hour.

    Signing off now. Can’t watch until 10:30 tonight and I’m on the west coast for I have a four hour wait. I did look at the sneak peeks though.

  61. lostmama says:

    ahh I’m lost a Hydrogen bomb, what do they need that for?

  62. LINS says:

    hammer you were right…it is a reference to a bomb

  63. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310259″]who’s the woman in the pic, Des looked at that is with Faraday?[/quote]

    Looks like a young eloise

  64. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310255″]How do the “others” speak Latin a dead language, I though Alpert was a orignalinhabitant not other, or are they all called other if they’re not from the plane crash? Maybe Latin is a clue to the orign / age of the original island inhabitants[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    The Others is the name for the former Hostiles, or who we think of as the original island inhabitants. They killed all the Dharma people.

  65. lostmama says:

    can anyone tell me what happened right before the first commercial break, I missed it, did I miss anything important?

  66. Snaisy says:

    WHo is Eloise again? I thought Eloise was the name for the rat…

  67. Rita says:

    I’m waiting to find out if the soldier girl will turn out to be Faraday’s mother – who may be Eloise/Mrs. Hawkings/ ?

  68. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310262″]hammer you were right…it is a reference to a bomb[/quote]

    So the us army was there to tst a bomb in the 50’s?

    Where abouts in the world was the u s doing that in that time.

  69. michael says:

    I was wrong

  70. LINS says:

    whoa…so widmore was funding daniel’s research? i wonder what happened to that girl? was he messing with her conciousness? is she stuck in some kind of time travelling state now? so what was widmore’s real reason for putting daniel on the boat?

  71. michael says:

    Richard isn’t time traveling. hes that old

  72. LINS says:

    haha, john asking how old richard is…that was funny.

  73. omar says:

    Crazytown??

  74. lostmama says:

    hold on who was the girl in the bed suppost to be? someone dan expiremented on? and how does he know that woman, does she remind him of the woman in the bed?

  75. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310272″]whoa…so widmore was funding daniel’s research? i wonder what happened to that girl? was he messing with her conciousness? is she stuck in some kind of time travelling state now? so what was widmore’s real reason for putting daniel on the boat?[/quote]

    Why would widmore fund daniel in conscience time travel. Does that soldier look like a young widmore???

  76. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310272″]whoa…so widmore was funding daniel’s research? i wonder what happened to that girl? was he messing with her conciousness? is she stuck in some kind of time travelling state now? so what was widmore’s real reason for putting daniel on the boat?[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I’m guessing that Daniel didn’t “run off to the states and leave the girl”. I am guessing he is back at the island because he thinks it is there that he can save her.

  77. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310273″]Richard isn’t time traveling. hes that old[/quote]
    I think he does time travel. Ben did say last season something about, you remember birthdays don’t you? He’s an island protector, and I’ll bet he has four toes.

  78. LINS says:

    i guess it helps that “jughead” is actually printed on the bomb :)

  79. lostmama says:

    [quote comment=”310278″][quote comment=”310272″]whoa…so widmore was funding daniel’s research? i wonder what happened to that girl? was he messing with her conciousness? is she stuck in some kind of time travelling state now? so what was widmore’s real reason for putting daniel on the boat?[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I’m guessing that Daniel didn’t “run off to the states and leave the girl”. I am guessing he is back at the island because he thinks it is there that he can save her.[/quote]

    ahh, maybe that explains seeing him in last weeks episode working on the island

  80. michael says:

    Snap I called it!!!!

  81. lostmama says:

    is it really widmore! I’ll bet it does go way way back!

  82. LINS says:

    holy freaking cow…so widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island…that just blew my mind…

  83. Iowakid says:

    I love this show-my first post this year and I am so sorry it is not a deep thinking one-but I love this show

  84. omar says:

    hold up…Charles Widmore…man this shyt is getting good…

  85. Snaisy says:

    WHy does Widmore age?

  86. michael says:

    WOw. Gave me chills

  87. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310284″]holy freaking cow…so widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island…that just blew my mind…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Whoa! I’ll bet the girl in the bed is also a Widmore – Penny’s sister maybe?

  88. lostmama says:

    [quote comment=”310287″]WHy does Widmore age?[/quote]
    yeah it seems like some of them do and some, namely Alpert, don’t Who knows this is Lost after all

  89. Stymie says:

    I think Alpert was from the Black Rock.

  90. Iowakid says:

    How Widmer ages but Alpert seems not to? Is it because he stays on the island more? And Widmer left? How did Widmer leave and why? Man my head is expanding

  91. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310289″][quote comment=”310284″]holy freaking cow…so widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island…that just blew my mind…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Whoa! I’ll bet the girl in the bed is also a Widmore – Penny’s sister maybe?[/quote]

    ***********
    why else would he funding her care…and widmore is funding daniel’s research because he knows his mother and knows that’s his best chance to find the island and get back there!

  92. Snaisy says:

    Maybe Widmore ages bc he left the island!!!

  93. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310284″]holy freaking cow…so widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island…that just blew my mind…[/quote]
    He told Ben last season that the island was his and always was. He’s been there as long as Richard. I mentioned before that he screwed up and moved the island. And he’s been trying to get back ever since. He planted people on 815 and on and on and on….

  94. kindly says:

    I’m new here but… I thought that maybe the girl who is in the bed is actually the red head Daniel is in love with and that he is trying to go back to try to save her. Maybe?

  95. omar says:

    So Richard and his crew are military and cant get off the island cause the government did testing on this island 50 years ago, and Widmore is in the military mission (probably the UK army or some secret government military organization testing bombs) and they cant get off the island either and widmore makes it off and has been searching for 50 years for the island cause evry1 wants to go back….

  96. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310291″]I think Alpert was from the Black Rock.[/quote]
    Maybe, but I really think Widmore is.

  97. LINS says:

    awww…des named his son charlie…does that make you feel better pj, technically now there is a charlie on the show :)

  98. michael says:

    good girl penny!!!

  99. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310295″][quote comment=”310284″]holy freaking cow…so widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island…that just blew my mind…[/quote]
    He told Ben last season that the island was his and always was. He’s been there as long as Richard. I mentioned before that he screwed up and moved the island. And he’s been trying to get back ever since. He planted people on 815 and on and on and on….[/quote]

    i agree

  100. michael says:

    We found out why he had to give the compass to richard, so when john is born or some time after he can doe his test on him with it.

  101. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310302″]We found out why he had to give the compass to richard, so when john is born or some time after he can doe his test on him with it.[/quote]
    Yep and it’s why Alpert storms off when the little guy doesn’t remember it…because it didn’t happen yet.

  102. lostmama says:

    [quote comment=”310301″][quote comment=”310295″][quote comment=”310284″]holy freaking cow…so widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island…that just blew my mind…[/quote]
    He told Ben last season that the island was his and always was. He’s been there as long as Richard. I mentioned before that he screwed up and moved the island. And he’s been trying to get back ever since. He planted people on 815 and on and on and on….[/quote]

    i agree[/quote]

    me too, so is widmore really trying to expose the island like ben says? And why do they need to bring everyone back to fix it?

  103. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310297″]So Richard and his crew are military and cant get off the island cause the government did testing on this island 50 years ago, and Widmore is in the military mission (probably the UK army or some secret government military organization testing bombs) and they cant get off the island either and widmore makes it off and has been searching for 50 years for the island cause evry1 wants to go back….[/quote]
    ++++

    dont think so. richard and alpert and others live there. US arm comes, Others kill them and take there stuff

  104. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310299″]awww…des named his son charlie…does that make you feel better pj, technically now there is a charlie on the show :)[/quote]

    Yes!

    Wow. That was a WHOLE LOT of answers, wasn’t it? Of course, to mostly new questions, but still. Wow.

    Did anyone catch “Walt” in the Anytizers commercial during the enhanced version of “The Lie” tonight?

    : ) P

  105. Hammer says:

    Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.

  106. Rita says:

    Well, that clinches it, Mrs. Hawkings (Eloise maybe??) IS Dan’s mom – in LA. If that was a young Widmore on the island, then the girl would be about the right age to be Mrs. Hawkings now – and be Dan’s mom.

  107. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]
    ++++

    Have we given up on walt

  108. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]
    Or Walt?

  109. Snaisy says:

    [quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]

    NICE!!! Now we know why Aaron needs to come back! This is great. No wonder Sun’s baby girl isn’t mentioned. She isn’t as special bc she was not BORN on the island. Conceived yes, but not Born!

  110. lostmama says:

    [quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]

    Which reminds me where is Claire and how the heck does her & Jacks dad fit into this, is he Jacob.

    Ben “became” an other by killing Dahrma, Widmore was an Other, what happened tm make them hate one another?

  111. Rita says:

    Interesting that Alpert WAS present at Locke’s birth. Wow. I gotta go to bed, gotta work early tomorrow. See you all tomorrow morning! Happy blogging!

  112. Snaisy says:

    [quote comment=”310311″][quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]
    Or Walt?[/quote]

    I dont think Walt is as important… he was not born on the island. I think there has to be something said regarding one’s first breath on the special island… Walt doesnt have that aspect. Just AAron.

  113. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310309″]Well, that clinches it, Mrs. Hawkings (Eloise maybe??) IS Dan’s mom – in LA. If that was a young Widmore on the island, then the girl would be about the right age to be Mrs. Hawkings now – and be Dan’s mom.[/quote]
    I would hope that no one is suprised that Hawking is Dan’s mom. Now we are saying that the young lady in bed and the old lady in LA are the same woman in the same time line?

  114. michael says:

    So widmore looks about 20 something in 1954.

  115. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310316″][quote comment=”310309″]Well, that clinches it, Mrs. Hawkings (Eloise maybe??) IS Dan’s mom – in LA. If that was a young Widmore on the island, then the girl would be about the right age to be Mrs. Hawkings now – and be Dan’s mom.[/quote]
    I would hope that no one is suprised that Hawking is Dan’s mom. Now we are saying that the young lady in bed and the old lady in LA are the same woman in the same time line?[/quote]

    No… What was the girls name in the bed?

  116. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310316″][quote comment=”310309″]Well, that clinches it, Mrs. Hawkings (Eloise maybe??) IS Dan’s mom – in LA. If that was a young Widmore on the island, then the girl would be about the right age to be Mrs. Hawkings now – and be Dan’s mom.[/quote]
    I would hope that no one is suprised that Hawking is Dan’s mom. Now we are saying that the young lady in bed and the old lady in LA are the same woman in the same time line?[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Ok, one more comment. No, not the girl in the bed, I mean the girl on the island is Dan’s mom, the soldier girl. I think the girl in the bed is a Widmore.

  117. Snaisy says:

    What is happening in the future is affecting how the past is occurring! Its like planet of the apes-one BIG LOOP!

  118. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310319″][quote comment=”310316″][quote comment=”310309″]Well, that clinches it, Mrs. Hawkings (Eloise maybe??) IS Dan’s mom – in LA. If that was a young Widmore on the island, then the girl would be about the right age to be Mrs. Hawkings now – and be Dan’s mom.[/quote]
    I would hope that no one is suprised that Hawking is Dan’s mom. Now we are saying that the young lady in bed and the old lady in LA are the same woman in the same time line?[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Ok, one more comment. No, not the girl in the bed, I mean the girl on the island is Dan’s mom, the soldier girl. I think the girl in the bed is a Widmore.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Got it….good night Rita.

  119. lostmama says:

    I was thinking soilder girl could be dans mother too

  120. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310323″][quote comment=”310319″][quote comment=”310316″][quote comment=”310309″]Well, that clinches it, Mrs. Hawkings (Eloise maybe??) IS Dan’s mom – in LA. If that was a young Widmore on the island, then the girl would be about the right age to be Mrs. Hawkings now – and be Dan’s mom.[/quote]
    I would hope that no one is suprised that Hawking is Dan’s mom. Now we are saying that the young lady in bed and the old lady in LA are the same woman in the same time line?[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Ok, one more comment. No, not the girl in the bed, I mean the girl on the island is Dan’s mom, the soldier girl. I think the girl in the bed is a Widmore.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Got it….good night Rita.[/quote]
    +++++

    open to the idea that the girl on the island could be dans mom. don’t think the girl in the bed is a widmore.think hes funding her medical because she might prove to be useful some how.

  121. PJSander says:

    I don’t think the girl in the bed is a Widmore. He is paying for her care because the research that Daniel did, which Widmore funded, caused her current state of health.

    I can buy that unnamed blonde soldier girl COULD be Mrs. Hawking. Or she could be Penny’s mother. Or both I guess.

    : ) P

  122. analucia says:

    could there be a connection between the girl in the bed and charlotte? seems to be 2 women Faraday care alot for.

  123. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310312″][quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]

    NICE!!! Now we know why Aaron needs to come back! This is great. No wonder Sun’s baby girl isn’t mentioned. She isn’t as special bc she was not BORN on the island. Conceived yes, but not Born![/quote]

    yea but Locke has been made leader of the others and he was not born on the island either so that really doesnt fit although i think aaron is probably special somehow

  124. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310320″]What is happening in the future is affecting how the past is occurring! Its like planet of the apes-one BIG LOOP![/quote]
    ++++

    Yeh This time loop had to happen. if jack never left the island and the time traveling island never happend richard would have never met locke .

  125. Ben says:

    Something must have happened in time that made Richard choose Ben over Widmore.

  126. Hammer says:

    Just a thought. Is the girl in the bed the same actress as the soldier girl?

  127. RGS says:

    Locke wasn’t born on the island yet he’s special. Walt has a chance. The selection process starts young that’s why they were so interested in the kids.

    I like Rita’s idea of the soldier woman being Mrs. Hawkings and Daniels mom.

  128. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310334″]Something must have happened in time that made Richard choose Ben over Widmore.[/quote]

    Think he had to choose. Widmore is kinda of a hot head. Ben might have noticed it and got widmore kicked off the island… one idea…

  129. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310332″][quote comment=”310312″][quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]

    NICE!!! Now we know why Aaron needs to come back! This is great. No wonder Sun’s baby girl isn’t mentioned. She isn’t as special bc she was not BORN on the island. Conceived yes, but not Born![/quote]

    yea but Locke has been made leader of the others and he was not born on the island either so that really doesnt fit although i think aaron is probably special somehow[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I don’t think you have to be born on the island. He just said the selection takes place at a very early age…like before they are born is how I took it. Again, Locke’s mom and Aaron’s mom were both led to believe they were carrying a special child.

  130. Snaisy says:

    [quote comment=”310332″][quote comment=”310312″][quote comment=”310307″]Oh and I think Alpert gave away who Locke’s successor will be. The selection process starts at a young age. Locke’s mom knew that Locke was going to be special. Aaron is next.[/quote]

    NICE!!! Now we know why Aaron needs to come back! This is great. No wonder Sun’s baby girl isn’t mentioned. She isn’t as special bc she was not BORN on the island. Conceived yes, but not Born![/quote]

    yea but Locke has been made leader of the others and he was not born on the island either so that really doesnt fit although i think aaron is probably special somehow[/quote]
    ~~~~~~

    Hmmm Maybe Locke was an exception due to his “future come into the past to create the future” trick. Perhaps the exception of the rule was bc Locke began to walk on the Island…something he couldnt do off of it. Maybe the Island chose Locke as evidenced by his ability to walk again. Which is why the Island is allowing the “future come to the past and create the future” trick. Maybe only CERTAIN things CAN change in the past. Faraday could be aware of this. If this was correct, it could be why Ben was intimidated by Locke since the Island gave Locke special abilities like walking/hearing Jacob which allowed Richard and his crew to recognize Locke as their leader.

    I guess is this was so, then the question to how Ben got his power would be in limbo too.

  131. Vaughn K says:

    i cant remember when richard came to see locke when he was a boy, did locke pick the compass up or did he pick one of the other items up?

  132. Hammer says:

    Walt is special but not a chosen leader. Hugo is special but not a chosen leader. Miles is special but not a chosen leader. Desmond is special but not a chosen leader.

    They are all helpful to the island, but not the chosen leaders.

  133. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310342″]i cant remember when richard came to see locke when he was a boy, did locke pick the compass up or did he pick one of the other items up?[/quote]
    I think he had to pick three things. He picked the knife, compass and a book. i think the book was the wrong choice

  134. RGS says:

    Locke probably tells Alpert that Widmore is bad news, due to the circular nature of what is to come. (not sure I like that but it is what it is). Alpert already is doubting Widmore and will probably want to punish him once Locke reveals how he really escaped.

    Widmore is then somehow banished from the island, but uses what he’s learned from the island to create his financial empire, with the idea of getting back to the island.

    He thus begins funding the Dharma initiative. Ben (who also wasn’t born on the island but is able to communicate with Jacob) kills off Dharma thus temporarily protecting the island from Widmore’s revenge and making Widmore an enemy in the process…

  135. Ben says:

    He looked at the book and the compass but chose the knife.

  136. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310346″][quote comment=”310342″]i cant remember when richard came to see locke when he was a boy, did locke pick the compass up or did he pick one of the other items up?[/quote]
    I think he had to pick three things. He picked the knife, compass and a book. i think the book was the wrong choice[/quote]

    He had to pick which item was “already his” and he chose the knife.

    Maybe the reason why Captain Eyeliner got so angry about little John picking the knife is that ever since 1954, he has been searching for the “real” John Locke who came to see him and this little boy was yet another disappointment! Even though it WAS the right John Locke.

    : ) P

  137. Snaisy says:

    [quote comment=”310347″]Locke probably tells Alpert that Widmore is bad news, due to the circular nature of what is to come. (not sure I like that but it is what it is). Alpert already is doubting Widmore and will probably want to punish him once Locke reveals how he really escaped.

    Widmore is then somehow banished from the island, but uses what he’s learned from the island to create his financial empire, with the idea of getting back to the island.

    He thus begins funding the Dharma initiative. Ben (who also wasn’t born on the island but is able to communicate with Jacob) kills off Dharma thus temporarily protecting the island from Widmore’s revenge and making Widmore an enemy in the process…[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Yea, I like that! That would explained why Ben and Widmore aren’t buddies. Maybe the Island chooses its leader based on their abilities to assist the Island at that moment in time.

  138. Ben says:

    Episodes without Jack and Kate are the best.

  139. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310347″]Locke probably tells Alpert that Widmore is bad news, due to the circular nature of what is to come. (not sure I like that but it is what it is). Alpert already is doubting Widmore and will probably want to punish him once Locke reveals how he really escaped.

    Widmore is then somehow banished from the island, but uses what he’s learned from the island to create his financial empire, with the idea of getting back to the island.

    He thus begins funding the Dharma initiative. Ben (who also wasn’t born on the island but is able to communicate with Jacob) kills off Dharma thus temporarily protecting the island from Widmore’s revenge and making Widmore an enemy in the process…[/quote]
    Very good. I like it.

  140. RGS says:

    [/quote]

    He had to pick which item was “already his” and he chose the knife.

    Maybe the reason why Captain Eyeliner got so angry about little John picking the knife is that ever since 1954, he has been searching for the “real” John Locke who came to see him and this little boy was yet another disappointment! Even though it WAS the right John Locke.

    : ) P[/quote]

    The item that was “already his” was the compass. If Locke didn’t pick it then that’s the thing that upset him because Old Locke gave him the compass, so baby Locke should have picked out the compass. Far as Alpert knew, everything Old Locke was telling was coming true. Told him when and where he would be born, Alpert goes there. Still not sure, he tests him with the compass trick.

  141. Vaughn K says:

    does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?

  142. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310355″][/quote]

    He had to pick which item was “already his” and he chose the knife.

    Maybe the reason why Captain Eyeliner got so angry about little John picking the knife is that ever since 1954, he has been searching for the “real” John Locke who came to see him and this little boy was yet another disappointment! Even though it WAS the right John Locke.

    : ) P[/quote]

    The item that was “already his” was the compass. If Locke didn’t pick it then that’s the thing that upset him because Old Locke gave him the compass, so baby Locke should have picked out the compass. Far as Alpert knew, everything Old Locke was telling was coming true. Told him when and where he would be born, Alpert goes there. Still not sure, he tests him with the compass trick.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Right, but Locke didn’t know it was his because it didn’t happen yet….like I said earlier. :)

  143. Snaisy says:

    [quote comment=”310359″][quote comment=”310355″][/quote]

    He had to pick which item was “already his” and he chose the knife.

    Maybe the reason why Captain Eyeliner got so angry about little John picking the knife is that ever since 1954, he has been searching for the “real” John Locke who came to see him and this little boy was yet another disappointment! Even though it WAS the right John Locke.

    : ) P[/quote]

    The item that was “already his” was the compass. If Locke didn’t pick it then that’s the thing that upset him because Old Locke gave him the compass, so baby Locke should have picked out the compass. Far as Alpert knew, everything Old Locke was telling was coming true. Told him when and where he would be born, Alpert goes there. Still not sure, he tests him with the compass trick.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Right, but Locke didn’t know it was his because it didn’t happen yet….like I said earlier. :)[/quote]
    ~~~~

    Maybe Locke didnt pick it bc is Wasn’t his… Richard gave it to Locke. So it belongs to Richard not Locke.

  144. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment=”310335″]Just a thought. Is the girl in the bed the same actress as the soldier girl?[/quote]

    Just looked it up…I had the same thought b/c they look so similar. “Ellie” (soldier girl) & Theresa (girl in the bed) are two different actresses. Whoever the soldier girl is I’m going to bet her full name is Eloise and she is who Daniel named his rat after. I’m going to place my money on the theory that she’s Daniel’s Mom & Mrs. Hawkings.

  145. Missy says:

    I sooo thought the girl with the rifle was going to be Rousseau..I guess it still could be – doubtful though…maybe Theresa Spencer. But because I was waiting for that to be revealed, I was totally caught off guard with Widmore! Can you imagine what would have happened if Sawyer or John would have killed him when they had the chance? I guess it would leave us without a story.

    At least Widmore (old) telling Des that Faraday’s mom lives in LA answers the question of last week on how Ben was able to see both her and Hurley in such a short period of time. But who can the girl in the bed be? And is she sick because she needs her constant, or would one have died from that already? We all know that Faraday isn’t the “love em and leave” em kinda guy – so maybe he got assigned to the special freighter project and had to leave the girl. Who was the guy in Faraday’s office though – that scene was confusing to me.

    I’m still processing the idea of Widmore funding Faraday’s research. Clearly it’s a possible means to his ends of wanting to reclaim the island – but doesn’t that pose his mother (who seems to be on Ben’s side) against his benefactor? What side is Faraday playing for?

    So John gives Alpert back his compass, completing that circle – so we know why Alpert was there when John was born…he invited him! By doing so, is that what leads to the car accident, and being born early/adopted. You know how the island seems to make things happen to our friends in the real world. But we know when Alpert visits little boy Locke and places the items (including the compass and the “Book of Laws” that Locke chooses something else (the knife, I think) which leads Alpert to leave in a huff. Can anything change that outcome?

    Lastly, so what DOES happen to the bomb since the island IS there 50 years later? Does it get buried or otherwise disposed of? Why did Widmore’s fatigues say “Jones” on it, not Widmore?

    Seriously – one last question – Does the rifle girl know Faraday – when she says,”You just couldn’t stay away,” – it’s like she’s seen him before.

    That’s all for now on the quickest hour of TV.

  146. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    That’s what I think. Mentioned it early on the last thread. I think Dan told us last season that it effects people at different rates. Minkowski and the guy that left the blood stain on the wall died days apart. The girl that wore the heavy chain swim suit and jumped off the freightor was starting her issues too. Des was saved by Faraday. Now Faraday is trying to delay/stop Char’s until someone stops the traveling. Everyone is in danger unless the group goes back to the island.

  147. Snaisy says:

    [quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]
    ~~~~

    Maybe she is affected by it bc she has been traveling through time for so many years? Or maybe everyone else’s consent are the oceanic 6 off the island.

  148. lostmama says:

    [quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]

    maybe like ppl said last week this is the sickness that happened to Rouseous (spelling sorry) people that all got sick and died. I hoe thay dont’ all get sick, maybe she’s been there before too, I always kinda felt like she had maybe it’s messed her all up

  149. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310362″][quote comment=”310335″]Just a thought. Is the girl in the bed the same actress as the soldier girl?[/quote]

    Just looked it up…I had the same thought b/c they look so similar. “Ellie” (soldier girl) & Theresa (girl in the bed) are two different actresses. Whoever the soldier girl is I’m going to bet her full name is Eloise and she is who Daniel named his rat after. I’m going to place my money on the theory that she’s Daniel’s Mom & Mrs. Hawkings.[/quote]
    +++++
    Yeah, that’s the obvious route. I just wondered. Thanks for the research.

  150. Missy says:

    Oh snap! Watching it again – young Widmore addresses rifle girl as “ellie” signs pointing to Faraday’s mom (the rat’s namesake) or perhaps the person in the coma.

  151. Donna says:

    So is it safe to say that the bomb is what is buried behind the concrete wall in The Swan?

  152. michael says:

    [quote comment=”310361″][quote comment=”310359″][quote comment=”310355″][/quote]

    He had to pick which item was “already his” and he chose the knife.

    Maybe the reason why Captain Eyeliner got so angry about little John picking the knife is that ever since 1954, he has been searching for the “real” John Locke who came to see him and this little boy was yet another disappointment! Even though it WAS the right John Locke.

    : ) P[/quote]

    The item that was “already his” was the compass. If Locke didn’t pick it then that’s the thing that upset him because Old Locke gave him the compass, so baby Locke should have picked out the compass. Far as Alpert knew, everything Old Locke was telling was coming true. Told him when and where he would be born, Alpert goes there. Still not sure, he tests him with the compass trick.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Right, but Locke didn’t know it was his because it didn’t happen yet….like I said earlier. :)[/quote]
    ~~~~

    Maybe Locke didnt pick it bc is Wasn’t his… Richard gave it to Locke. So it belongs to Richard not Locke.[/quote]
    Wow…wait….whos compass is it. that like the checn and the egg question

  153. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]

    Was wondering the exact same thing! What about the theory that she’s been to the island b/f or that she was born there or was possibly Ben’s “Annie”? Last week she said she couldn’t remember her mother’s maiden name so some on this blog suggested that was to make us wonder who her mother was. Maybe if she left the island and came back she would be more affected than the others?

  154. ChemicalBuddha says:

    [quote comment=”310296″]I’m new here but… I thought that maybe the girl who is in the bed is actually the red head Daniel is in love with and that he is trying to go back to try to save her. Maybe?[/quote]

    The girl in the bed is the same girl that’s in the cracked picture in Daniel Faraday’s office in Oxford. I believe she is the “poor girl” who the janitor mentioned when describing the atrocities of Faraday’s research, and the reasons the university would wish to cover up his tenure there.

    I think the girl on the bed (Teresa Spencer) might be related to the girl who takes Daniel to the H-bomb at gun point on the 1954 island. I recall he told her “you look sooooo much like somebody I used to know.”

  155. RGS says:

    [/quote]
    ~~~~

    Maybe Locke didnt pick it bc is Wasn’t his… Richard gave it to Locke. So it belongs to Richard not Locke.[/quote]

    Yep I agree and Alpert didn’t understand it at that time, hence the hissy fit, eyeliner was probably beginning to run down his cheek as he left.

  156. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?

  157. RGS says:

    So if Soldier Girl is Daniel’s mom, she probably at some point becomes pregnant (by Widmore? lol) and Juliette will probably tell her, if you don’t get off the island you will die so she leaves to give birth to Daniel.

    Since Widmore knows Daniel is her son, and he has an interest in this stuff he begins funding Daniel’s studies because he believes in Daniel.

  158. ChemicalBuddha says:

    [quote comment=”310309″]Well, that clinches it, Mrs. Hawkings (Eloise maybe??) IS Dan’s mom – in LA. If that was a young Widmore on the island, then the girl would be about the right age to be Mrs. Hawkings now – and be Dan’s mom.[/quote]

    True! I was thinking the girl on the island was related to Teresa Spencer (the girl lying vegetated on the bed)… but I like your theory a lot more!

  159. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310363″]Why did Widmore’s fatigues say “Jones” on it, not Widmore?
    [/quote]

    Because when Alpert “had” to kill all the US Army folks, they took their clothes and used them. Why else would all those “US Army” folks have questionable accents!?

    : ) P

  160. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]

    duuuuuude that would make so much sense

  161. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]

    Yep that’d be my guess, good catch.

  162. pete says:

    wow some answers finally first the girl on the island with the gun on faraday is the girl in the bed.second faraday asks for lead and concrete remember the concrete wall in the hatch with magnetic pull he said bury it hmm.also widmores intrest in the auction for the manifest of the black rock just a thought .

  163. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310388″]wow some answers finally first the girl on the island with the gun on faraday is the girl in the bed.second faraday asks for lead and concrete remember the concrete wall in the hatch with magnetic pull he said bury it hmm.also widmores intrest in the auction for the manifest of the black rock just a thought .[/quote]

    maybe that was why the hatch exploded because the h-bomb went off but it was underground so the explosion wouldnt destroy the whole island. and if the button wasnt pressed every 108 mins, the bomb would detonate. good idea

  164. Missy says:

    Can nyone shed some light on the title of tonight’s episode, “Jughead” – other than the fact that it was painted on the side of the bomb.

    A quick yahoo search gives results for comics, and in particular a Jughead Jones – coincidense considering Jones is the name on Widmore’s fatigues? Anybody have any other references to it?

  165. PJSander says:

    Personally, I don’t think the woman in the bed is going to be important. Not EVERY character has to be connected!

    The blonde soldier girl was called Ellie. I think she will grow up to be Eloise Hawking. Although I would like to note that the ONLY reason we know that Mrs. Hawking’s first name is Eloise is because of the pop-ups in the repeat of “The Lie” and those HAVE been known to be slightly incorrect and D&C have said that we should NOT consider them cannon.

    I do believe that Mrs. Hawking could be Daniel’s mother. I think it is very odd that Daniel would name his pet rat Eloise after his mother. Also, Daniel giving Desmond the code word “Eloise” would be odd if his MOTHER’s name was Eloise because that just isn’t obscure enough for Faraday to trust.

    However, it could be that Eloise is his REAL mother and he was raised by another. Perhaps only a very small number of people know who his real mother is.

    A lot of speculation, I admit. But I stand beside the idea that Abigail and Theresa are not connected to Widmore outside of what we’ve been told.

    : ) P

  166. Herkey says:

    I know I am going back to last weeks episode, but did anyone notice the computer that “Mrs. Hawkins” was working on in the church. A little old for being present time. It looks alot like the computer in the hatch. Maybe it links back to the island every 108 minutes?

  167. ChemicalBuddha says:

    [quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]

    No.. everyone else… Juliet and Sawyer found their constants at the hatch. Daniel took them there on purpose… now they have that as their constant.

    I think charlotte is having issues because she’s been on the island before (in a different time). Remember: the last episode of season 4… Miles turns to Charlotte and says “you’re not leaving this island… not after all you went to to get BACK here.”

  168. lostmama says:

    [quote comment=”310390″][quote comment=”310388″]wow some answers finally first the girl on the island with the gun on faraday is the girl in the bed.second faraday asks for lead and concrete remember the concrete wall in the hatch with magnetic pull he said bury it hmm.also widmores intrest in the auction for the manifest of the black rock just a thought .[/quote]

    maybe that was why the hatch exploded because the h-bomb went off but it was underground so the explosion wouldnt destroy the whole island. and if the button wasnt pressed every 108 mins, the bomb would detonate. good idea[/quote]

    i love it, it would make all of that make some sense

  169. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310395″]No.. everyone else… Juliet and Sawyer found their constants at the hatch. Daniel took them there on purpose… now they have that as their constant.[/quote]

    Excellent!

    [quote comment=”310390″]maybe that was why the hatch exploded because the h-bomb went off but it was underground so the explosion wouldnt destroy the whole island. and if the button wasnt pressed every 108 mins, the bomb would detonate. good idea[/quote]

    Excellent as well! Are there STILL people who question that the show’s complete story arc was planned from the beginning?

    : ) P

  170. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310393″]Personally, I don’t think the woman in the bed is going to be important. Not EVERY character has to be connected!

    The blonde soldier girl was called Ellie. I think she will grow up to be Eloise Hawking. Although I would like to note that the ONLY reason we know that Mrs. Hawking’s first name is Eloise is because of the pop-ups in the repeat of “The Lie” and those HAVE been known to be slightly incorrect and D&C have said that we should NOT consider them cannon.

    I do believe that Mrs. Hawking could be Daniel’s mother. I think it is very odd that Daniel would name his pet rat Eloise after his mother. Also, Daniel giving Desmond the code word “Eloise” would be odd if his MOTHER’s name was Eloise because that just isn’t obscure enough for Faraday to trust.

    However, it could be that Eloise is his REAL mother and he was raised by another. Perhaps only a very small number of people know who his real mother is.

    A lot of speculation, I admit. But I stand beside the idea that Abigail and Theresa are not connected to Widmore outside of what we’ve been told.

    : ) P[/quote]

    i agree pj, ellie is more than likely eloise hawking and has no (known) relation to the girl in the bed…it is interesting that widmore and her were that close and in the same “camp” at such a young age.

    i would like to know who their current leader at that time was, i don’t think richard is really their leader, there’s always someone else, and ben is a bit younger than widmore so i’m wondering what happened to make widmore (and hawking) leave the island?

    also, alpert is so clean cut in these scenes, but if you remember, when he meets ben for what we we see as the first time, he’s very dirty and long hair…i wonder if there’s a connection there.

    i think it’s possible that aaron is supposed to be the next leader, but i think alpert would be looking for him too

    great episode though, i’m starting to like dan! and widmore actually seemed like a nice guy when he had his encounter with des…i think he may be genuinely worried for the safety of penny…

    good night, happy posting!

  171. JHCxyz says:

    Girl with gun on island is Daniel’s mom, and he was fathered by the young Charles Widmore (maybe on the island, maybe off.) Daniel and Penny are either brother/sister, or half-brother/sister. Widmore funds his son Daniels research, then picks up the cost of the girlfriend that he whacked out doing his testing. He has seen Charlotte’s symptoms before — in the girl in the bed.

  172. Missy says:

    Okay – so Jughead was also a cryogenic bomb from the early 1950s as part of the “Emergency Capability” program, one of the first of its kind.

    From Wikipedia:
    Jughead – A small number of EC-16s (jugheads) were produced on an emergency basis to provide a stop-gap thermonuclear weapon capability in response to the Russian nuclear weapons program.

    The test device, code-named “Jughead”, had been prepared as a backup in case the non-cryogenic “Shrimp” fusion device (first tested in Castle Bravo) failed to work. The test of “Jughead” was cancelled when the Bravo device was successful, and the few EC-16s which were actually built were withdrawn and dismantled.

  173. Laura says:

    [quote comment=”310224″]So who, what, is Jughead? Any ideas?

    I did a little wikiopedia research on JUGHEAD and came up with a few things that i thought were interseting

    1. Jughead, a 19th century slang term meaning a mule

    2. Mark 17 nuclear bomb – Nicknamed “Jughead”

    3. The Kool-Aid Man, known in Canada as “Jug Head”

    Its got to be the Kool-Aid man :)[/quote]

    According to this article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb

    the “Jughead” Mark 17 nuclear bomb was cryogenic!!! (aka very low temperatures…) I’m thinking this explains the frozen donkey wheel situation!!

  174. ChemicalBuddha says:

    [quote comment=”310363″]I sooo thought the girl with the rifle was going to be Rousseau..I guess it still could be – doubtful though…maybe Theresa Spencer. But because I was waiting for that to be revealed, I was totally caught off guard with Widmore! Can you imagine what would have happened if Sawyer or John would have killed him when they had the chance? I guess it would leave us without a story.

    At least Widmore (old) telling Des that Faraday’s mom lives in LA answers the question of last week on how Ben was able to see both her and Hurley in such a short period of time. But who can the girl in the bed be? And is she sick because she needs her constant, or would one have died from that already? We all know that Faraday isn’t the “love em and leave” em kinda guy – so maybe he got assigned to the special freighter project and had to leave the girl. Who was the guy in Faraday’s office though – that scene was confusing to me.

    I’m still processing the idea of Widmore funding Faraday’s research. Clearly it’s a possible means to his ends of wanting to reclaim the island – but doesn’t that pose his mother (who seems to be on Ben’s side) against his benefactor? What side is Faraday playing for?

    So John gives Alpert back his compass, completing that circle – so we know why Alpert was there when John was born…he invited him! By doing so, is that what leads to the car accident, and being born early/adopted. You know how the island seems to make things happen to our friends in the real world. But we know when Alpert visits little boy Locke and places the items (including the compass and the “Book of Laws” that Locke chooses something else (the knife, I think) which leads Alpert to leave in a huff. Can anything change that outcome?

    Lastly, so what DOES happen to the bomb since the island IS there 50 years later? Does it get buried or otherwise disposed of? Why did Widmore’s fatigues say “Jones” on it, not Widmore?

    Seriously – one last question – Does the rifle girl know Faraday – when she says,”You just couldn’t stay away,” – it’s like she’s seen him before.

    That’s all for now on the quickest hour of TV.[/quote]

    The girl with the rifle says “you just couldn’t stay away,” because she thinks Faraday, Miles, and Charlotte are American soldiers who came to the island to do their H-bomb testing. That’s why she also tells Miles that “we didn’t put them there… you guys did,” with regard to the mines and trip-wires. The girl is an “other” (aka “hostile”).

    The “hostiles” killed the “first” battalion of American soldiers and assumed that the twenty Americans who mysteriously showed up on the beach (time warped) were a “second” battalion of American soldiers who had come to rescue the first battalion.

    The reason Widmore’s fatigues have “Jones” on them is because the “hostiles” stole the fatigues off of the US soldiers they killed.

  175. Laura says:

    oh you beat me missy!

  176. lostfanaticgrl says:

    [quote comment=”310342″]i cant remember when richard came to see locke when he was a boy, did locke pick the compass up or did he pick one of the other items up?[/quote]

    He picked up the knife

  177. Herkey says:

    [quote comment=”310403″]Girl with gun on island is Daniel’s mom, and he was fathered by the young Charles Widmore (maybe on the island, maybe off.) Daniel and Penny are either brother/sister, or half-brother/sister. Widmore funds his son Daniels research, then picks up the cost of the girlfriend that he whacked out doing his testing. He has seen Charlotte’s symptoms before — in the girl in the bed.[/quote]
    Maybe this is why Desmond & Daniel are constants

  178. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310402″]also, alpert is so clean cut in these scenes, but if you remember, when he meets ben for what we we see as the first time, he’s very dirty and long hair…i wonder if there’s a connection there.[/quote]

    My thought is that it was the 70’s and that was the style. *g* It could be a plot point, or it could be that D&C wanted us to see him in the 70’s with the long hair and think, ” Wait! Is that the same guy twenty-five years earlier?” We didn’t know Richard “didn’t age” and could “time travel” back then.

    : ) P

  179. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310412″][quote comment=”310403″]Girl with gun on island is Daniel’s mom, and he was fathered by the young Charles Widmore (maybe on the island, maybe off.) Daniel and Penny are either brother/sister, or half-brother/sister. Widmore funds his son Daniels research, then picks up the cost of the girlfriend that he whacked out doing his testing. He has seen Charlotte’s symptoms before — in the girl in the bed.[/quote]
    Maybe this is why Desmond & Daniel are constants[/quote]

    no we know why they are constants because desmond went and saw daniel in oxford and then saw him on the island. and then remember daniel knew des was his constant cause in his diary on one of the pages, it said if anything happens desmond is my constant.

  180. lostfanaticgrl says:

    [quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]
    I like that thought. What else would it be for?

  181. Timmy says:

    My tivo missed taping the last conversation between John Locke and Richard Alpert Locke begins to say on a date in the future (he gives actual date) … it cuts off can anyone help me fill in what he said?

  182. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310420″]My tivo missed taping the last conversation between John Locke and Richard Alpert Locke begins to say on a date in the future (he gives actual date) … it cuts off can anyone help me fill in what he said?[/quote]

    he says that on this date he is born and gives him the location where he is born and tells richard to come visit him. this completes the circle of the flashback last season where richard comes to visit locke as a boy to see if he is special or not.

  183. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment=”310421″][quote comment=”310420″]My tivo missed taping the last conversation between John Locke and Richard Alpert Locke begins to say on a date in the future (he gives actual date) … it cuts off can anyone help me fill in what he said?[/quote]

    he says that on this date he is born and gives him the location where he is born and tells richard to come visit him. this completes the circle of the flashback last season where richard comes to visit locke as a boy to see if he is special or not.[/quote]

    I think he gives his actual birthdate in 1956 which is 2 years into the future as they are presently in 1954 in that scene.

  184. Vaughn K says:

    yea he does say the exact date, i just couldnt remember what it was lol

  185. JHCxyz says:

    So the storyline we’re following off-island is three years after Oceanic Six return. (i.e., Aaron is three years old.) But what about the storyline we’re following on the island — that’s not three years later, is it? Put aside the time travel part. When we see Locke or Juliette or Daniel on island, are they also three years older than when the island moved / freighter blew up / helicopter crashed? Seems more like the same day.

  186. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment=”310428″]So the storyline we’re following off-island is three years after Oceanic Six return. (i.e., Aaron is three years old.) But what about the storyline we’re following on the island — that’s not three years later, is it? Put aside the time travel part. When we see Locke or Juliette or Daniel on island, are they also three years older than when the island moved / freighter blew up / helicopter crashed? Seems more like the same day.[/quote]

    That’s about how I understand it too :)

  187. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310429″][quote comment=”310428″]So the storyline we’re following off-island is three years after Oceanic Six return. (i.e., Aaron is three years old.) But what about the storyline we’re following on the island — that’s not three years later, is it? Put aside the time travel part. When we see Locke or Juliette or Daniel on island, are they also three years older than when the island moved / freighter blew up / helicopter crashed? Seems more like the same day.[/quote]

    That’s about how I understand it too :)[/quote]

    yes when we are watching the O6, it is three years later but when they go back to the island, it is right after the island moved. so eventually they will fill everything in that happened in the three years before the O6 comes back to the island i hope but that is a long time to cover with only this season and next season remaining.

  188. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310428″]So the storyline we’re following off-island is three years after Oceanic Six return. (i.e., Aaron is three years old.) But what about the storyline we’re following on the island — that’s not three years later, is it? Put aside the time travel part. When we see Locke or Juliette or Daniel on island, are they also three years older than when the island moved / freighter blew up / helicopter crashed? Seems more like the same day.[/quote]

    From comment 357 from last week’s thread:

    SerbianChris wrote: So where in time would you put the on-island group?

    PJSander wrote: The CIT [Current Island Time] from the survivors’ perspective is early 2005. The helicopter has just left and the freighter has just exploded. Where they are in “REAL” time depends on which flash just occurred.

    SerbianChris wrote: and I completely agree. But from the perspective of the oceanic six, 3 yrs have passed, correct?

    PJSander wrote: The off-island characters are living in a time which is three years later. But I believe that is because that is the time we are being SHOWN by the producers, NOT because the times are running simultaneously.

    SerbianChris wrote: And when Faraday spoke to Desmond he created a new memory that Desmond “remembered” 3 years later in his bed.

    But in fact those events happened simultaneously.

    PJSander wrote: TO US, yes, they happened simultaneously, because that is what we were SHOWN. But from the characters’ perspectives, I do not think they were simultaneous. The truth is that to be TRUE to the timeline, the scene where we saw Desmond wake up from the dream/memory SHOULD have happened while Desmond et al were still on the life raft. Since it didn’t, we have to accept that Desmond “remembered” the dream three years after it happened.

    The good news, I think, is that the on-island survivors aren’t jumping around in time for three years *from their perspective* while they wait for Desmond to have that dream/memory.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  189. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”310403″]Girl with gun on island is Daniel’s mom, and he was fathered by the young Charles Widmore (maybe on the island, maybe off.) Daniel and Penny are either brother/sister, or half-brother/sister. Widmore funds his son Daniels research, then picks up the cost of the girlfriend that he whacked out doing his testing. He has seen Charlotte’s symptoms before — in the girl in the bed.[/quote]

    I agree completely.

    Perhaps when Ellie gets pregnant and must leave the island, Widmore is forced to go with her. Could explain why he and Ellie are no longer together — because he resents having had to leave the island. But he has a soft spot for her, the mother of his son, so he continues to keep tabs on her.

  190. ChemicalBuddha says:

    Time out… time out… I know that close quarters make for good bed partners… but does that necessarily mean that the young island-dwelling Widmore and Ellie, the girl escorting Faraday to the H-bomb at gunpoint on the 1954 island, hooked it up and banged out Daniel Faraday AND Penelope Widmore? I’ll have to wait on this theory to pan out a bit more.

    I have a question: Widmore leaves the island and ages. Ellie leaves the island and ages. Alpert stays on the island and does not age. So then, why does Ben, who lives on and grows up on the Island, go from being a young Harry Potterish spectacled boy in the flashbacks of Season 3 to the full grown bug-eyed buck that he is in modern day? There’s something more to the aging of these characters and the timelessness of Alpert…

    I think this ability to not age is tied in with the inability for women to birth children on the island. I remember reading somewhere in a college biology book back in my undergraduate studies about the cycle of life… for a race of animal to exist with a very long lifespan, the race of animal has to reproduce slowly (if not at all) for it to have a sustainable existence on Earth (due to limited resources). This is sorta why an elephant… which lives naturally to the ages of 70 or 80 years old… births once every two years or so. Humans… back in the primitive days, would have only lived to about 40 years… that’s almost half that of the life span of an elephant… thus the human can birth every 9 to 10 months (almost half of that of the elephant). Perhaps the “others” live an eternal life at the expense of not reproducing… sucks to live on a desert island with hot chicks, and no sex… if you ask me.

    LINS: I also caught that Alpert was disheveled when he met up with adolescent Ben. I think that the Dharma initiative (created and established by Widmore) could somehow keep the “hostiles” at bay… forcing them (and Alpert) into a jungle existence… but when they found Ben and flipped him to their side, they killed off the Dharma initiative and reclaimed their superiority on the island, found some clean clothes, a few razor blades, and perhaps even some tooth paste.

  191. Ben says:

    Um think what this episode has done, only 2 people from season one locke and sawyer. My how this show has turned since it was about a plane crash. Im hooked though.

  192. Christine says:

    Perhaps the woman in the bed is important, she seems to be time travelng also. Her sister said some days she thinks she is three and some days she is talking to her father who died 2 years ago. That means that he father died before the crash. Could she be related to Kate who killed her father a year before the crash and thats why Kate has to go back to the island?

  193. Christine says:

    sorry, her father died 5 years ago

  194. Ben says:

    A painting in Widmores office said Namaste! The same thing the Dharma intiative sign said.

  195. Lost Chicka says:

    [quote comment=”310352″]Episodes without Jack and Kate are the best.[/quote]
    Amen. And Captain Guyliner makes them better too.

    Missy “Seriously – one last question – Does the rifle girl know Faraday – when she says,”You just couldn’t stay away,” – it’s like she’s seen him before.” Yeah I noticed that too. I loved it and I just figured it’s cuz Daniel is from that time. But if she’s his mother, how would that work?

  196. Dennis says:

    So the bomb is the device in that station Faraday disarms when he first lands on the island… didn’t see that coming!

  197. Lost Chicka says:

    [quote comment=”310450″]So the bomb is the device in that station Faraday disarms when he first lands on the island… didn’t see that coming![/quote]

    OMG! Yes!

  198. Dennis says:

    1. why do you think the bomb was suspended in the air? It was held up by chains, the wooden scaffold built around it. Could it have been “caught” by something?

    2. the “time stuck” girl faraday had messed, it sounded like her symptoms were backwards. When desmond got stuck, his conciousness awoke in his body of the past. But with the girl, she awakes asking for her dead father, or her “dollies, as if she were 3 years old”. So in her case, it appears her conciousness from other time periods awakes in her present body. Any thoughts?

  199. Miraks says:

    [quote comment=”310299″]awww…des named his son charlie…does that make you feel better pj, technically now there is a charlie on the show :)[/quote]
    Or he was named for his grandfather- Charles. (no, probably not, but I’m just sayin…)

  200. NGB says:

    [quote comment=”310438″]Time out… time out… I know that close quarters make for good bed partners… but does that necessarily mean that the young island-dwelling Widmore and Ellie, the girl escorting Faraday to the H-bomb at gunpoint on the 1954 island, hooked it up and banged out Daniel Faraday AND Penelope Widmore? I’ll have to wait on this theory to pan out a bit more.

    I have a question: Widmore leaves the island and ages. Ellie leaves the island and ages. Alpert stays on the island and does not age. So then, why does Ben, who lives on and grows up on the Island, go from being a young Harry Potterish spectacled boy in the flashbacks of Season 3 to the full grown bug-eyed buck that he is in modern day? There’s something more to the aging of these characters and the timelessness of Alpert…

    I think this ability to not age is tied in with the inability for women to birth children on the island. I remember reading somewhere in a college biology book back in my undergraduate studies about the cycle of life… for a race of animal to exist with a very long lifespan, the race of animal has to reproduce slowly (if not at all) for it to have a sustainable existence on Earth (due to limited resources). This is sorta why an elephant… which lives naturally to the ages of 70 or 80 years old… births once every two years or so. Humans… back in the primitive days, would have only lived to about 40 years… that’s almost half that of the life span of an elephant… thus the human can birth every 9 to 10 months (almost half of that of the elephant). Perhaps the “others” live an eternal life at the expense of not reproducing… sucks to live on a desert island with hot chicks, and no sex… if you ask me.

    LINS: I also caught that Alpert was disheveled when he met up with adolescent Ben. I think that the Dharma initiative (created and established by Widmore) could somehow keep the “hostiles” at bay… forcing them (and Alpert) into a jungle existence… but when they found Ben and flipped him to their side, they killed off the Dharma initiative and reclaimed their superiority on the island, found some clean clothes, a few razor blades, and perhaps even some tooth paste.[/quote]

    ———————————————–

    Alpert is the Captain of the Black Rock, Young Widmore and Ellie and those with them are the Crew and Mates of the boat…they have been there for a long time, notice Young Widmore asks what are you doing on “our” island to time shifting Sawyer and Juliet. They stole all their clothing from US infantry that stormed the island to retrieve that Hydrogen Bomb….Richard and his crew have seen and been their awhile…(probably seen a view visitors and dealt with them)….Widmore and Ellie (Possible Eloise) leave the island eventually and Alpert Stays (Not Aging)-as long as he stays or returns soon he won’t show signs of aging. Widmore buys the Journal later in 2000’s to learn more of his Captains notes and how they landed their…in his search to return to the island.
    Just some random thoughts nothing more…..so many twists and turns can debunk theories…..

    Is Charlie (Des and Penny’s Offspring) named after “Charles Widmore or Charlie (Rock-n-Roll)”?? So many Charlies in this story, coincidence are reason for these namings being the same??

  201. NGB says:

    Alpert is the Captain of the Black Rock, Young Widmore and Ellie and those with them are the Crew and Mates of the boat…they have been there for a long time, notice Young Widmore asks what are you doing on “our” island to time shifting Sawyer and Juliet. They stole all their clothing from US infantry that stormed the island to retrieve that Hydrogen Bomb….Richard and his crew have seen and been their awhile…(probably seen a view visitors and dealt with them)….Widmore and Ellie (Possible Eloise) leave the island eventually and Alpert Stays (Not Aging)-as long as he stays or returns soon he won’t show signs of aging. Widmore buys the Journal later in 2000’s to learn more of his Captains notes and how they landed their…in his search to return to the island.
    Just some random thoughts nothing more…..so many twists and turns can debunk theories…..

    Is Charlie (Des and Penny’s Offspring) named after “Charles Widmore or Charlie (Rock-n-Roll)”?? So many Charlies in this story, coincidence are reason for these namings being the same??

  202. Byanka says:

    I thought it was so interesting that Locke didn’t kill who we now know was young Widmore because “he is one of my people”…and, Widmore does seem very genuine and truthful when Des visits him. We think that Locke is a good person (from what we know and feel). Which then makes me think…if this is a battle between Ben and Widmore then who is the guy that we want to win? Who is the good guy? Right now I am thinking Widmore is the good of the two and Ben is not. Especially is Widmore is one of John’s people. Does that make any sense or am I just totally LOST? :)

  203. Byanka says:

    [quote comment=”310467″]Alpert is the Captain of the Black Rock, Young Widmore and Ellie and those with them are the Crew and Mates of the boat…they have been there for a long time, notice Young Widmore asks what are you doing on “our” island to time shifting Sawyer and Juliet. They stole all their clothing from US infantry that stormed the island to retrieve that Hydrogen Bomb….Richard and his crew have seen and been their awhile…(probably seen a view visitors and dealt with them)….Widmore and Ellie (Possible Eloise) leave the island eventually and Alpert Stays (Not Aging)-as long as he stays or returns soon he won’t show signs of aging. Widmore buys the Journal later in 2000’s to learn more of his Captains notes and how they landed their…in his search to return to the island.
    Just some random thoughts nothing more…..so many twists and turns can debunk theories…..

    Is Charlie (Des and Penny’s Offspring) named after “Charles Widmore or Charlie (Rock-n-Roll)”?? So many Charlies in this story, coincidence are reason for these namings being the same??[/quote]

    Interesting, but I don’t know if Charlie is their son because
    -If DES got off the Island 3 years ago, and Charlie was the one who warned him that its “not Penny’s Boat” right before he got off the Island. Penny and Des have their son after all this. After Charlie dies.
    -ALSO…Charlie had a brother…another musician. I can’t recall if it was an older or younger brother though.

  204. Scooter says:

    Choosing their leadership at a young age starts to explain their obession with aaron – taking claire and making sure the baby is kept healthy…

    Interesting that Alpert knows nothing about time travel capabilities of the island in the ’50s (he must know in the 2000s, right?)…

    Locke not born on the island but tapped as “leader” – I think he’s a pawn because Alpert knows he needs to go on these trips through time to set up all the events needed to result in whatever reality it is Alpert or Jacob want. Alpert calls him the “leader” for his vanity and to get him to take the actions Alpert knows are needed…

    Agree with some no Jack, Kate, Hurley was a nice break…

    I still am a bit confused by the whole “Constant” thing. If Desmond is Faraday’s constant, what happens if they’re stuck in 1954 for a long time (and no Desmond back then)? Can someone re-explain to me why the Constant thing works?

    Ellie on the island in the 50s – good looking girl =)

  205. JHCxyz says:

    So, apologies if already said (I’m new to this discussion group.) So the moving of the island is how the Black Rock wound up so deep in the island jungle? Just as we saw the island seemingly sink out of sight when it vanished, it was “unsink” into sight when it reappears. So is it possible that the island just happened to re-appear right underneath where the Black Rock was sailing at that moment, thereby stranding it deep on the island?

  206. JHCxyz says:

    So, I thought one of the cardinal rules of time travel was you can’t alter the course of history. Daniel says that to Sawyer a number of times. But Locke visits Richard in this episode, tells him that he, Locke, will be borne two years hence and that Richard should visit, which Richard does. So the history that WOULD have unfolded (Richard does NOT visit the unknown John Locke) is altered to unfold WITH Richard visiting the young John Locke. What am I missing?

    Or is Richard exempt, or special somehow like Desmond, or everyone’s constant? When he meets Locke in jungle after Locke is shot, he gives him the compass with the definitive statement “Next time you meet me, I won’t know you.” So Richard is at that point remembering John Locke appearing to him in 1952. But which handoff happened “first” — Locke gives compass to Richard in 1952, or Richard gives compass to Locke in 200X? And regardless of your answer of which handoff happened first, the how did the other happen as a result?

  207. RGS says:

    I’m not that familiar with H-bombs, but are they supposed to be extremely magnetic? If not, the idea that the H-bomb needed “diffusing” every 108 minutes doesn’t fly. The 108 minutes was keeping that high amount of electricity in check.

  208. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”310463″]1. why do you think the bomb was suspended in the air? It was held up by chains, the wooden scaffold built around it. Could it have been “caught” by something?

    2. the “time stuck” girl faraday had messed, it sounded like her symptoms were backwards. When desmond got stuck, his conciousness awoke in his body of the past. But with the girl, she awakes asking for her dead father, or her “dollies, as if she were 3 years old”. So in her case, it appears her conciousness from other time periods awakes in her present body. Any thoughts?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Remember, when Desmonds 2004 mind went to another time it was like he switched places. He was on the Helo and didn’t know how he got there and didn’t remember anyone.

    My question is why dosn’t Daniel know who or what Teresa’s constant is. Or Charlotts for that matter.

  209. Circus Mom says:

    Did anyone else notice that Lock told Alpert the “Jacob sent me” instead of you sent me?

  210. BaileyLovesLost says:

    One of my favorite moments of last nights show was when Locke just stomped through the Others’ camp calling out “Richard Alpert!”
    Could it be that the Others bury the hydrogen bomb where they later build the Swan Station and that is what causes all of the electromagnet stuff? The bombs are high in radiation and that would explain why Desmond was exposed to high amounts of radiation last season when he was traveling back and forth between the freighter and 1996. Also, when the lady at Oxford asked Desmond if he knew what year Faraday worked there in, Desmond didn’t know. Why couldn’t he remember that he went there in 1996??
    How does Daniel know so much and know that there was a hydrogen bomb on the island?
    I love this show!

  211. ChemicalBuddha says:

    [quote comment=”310489″]So, apologies if already said (I’m new to this discussion group.) So the moving of the island is how the Black Rock wound up so deep in the island jungle? Just as we saw the island seemingly sink out of sight when it vanished, it was “unsink” into sight when it reappears. So is it possible that the island just happened to re-appear right underneath where the Black Rock was sailing at that moment, thereby stranding it deep on the island?[/quote]

    GREAT THEORY! I like it. Also explains why the freighter was just parked off the coast of the island. Going by the coordinates that widmore got from the captain’s log of the Black Rock, he may have been off by a few miles. Also… the Black Rock may have been parked there for a while before the island reappeared.

    I want to ask my question again about the aging. If Widmore and Ellie aged because they spent some significant time off the island, and Alpert never aged because he didn’t spend much time off the island, then does that mean that Ben, too, must have spent quite a bit of time off the island? How else could we explain that he went from the teen that killed off the Dharma Initiative to the full grown 40-something leader of the “Others?”

  212. Rita says:

    Here’s my thought about Dan/Eloise/Widmore/Penny: If we, for the moment, presume that Ellie is Dan’s mom, she obviously knows Charles Widmore and was in fact on the same “side” at one point. What put them on opposite sides? They seem to be still connected in some way as evidenced by Widmore having her whereabouts and address immediately available. Widmore MAY be Dan’s father (who knows at this point?) – which could explain his not wanting Dan and Penny to be together (they would then be at minimum half brother/sister). Did anyone else think, when “Ellie” asked Dan “who are you?”, and he answered “I am …… your best bet to disarm the bomb”, that he was about to say “I am … your son”? At any rate, the connection to Dan’s mother would explain WHY Widmore has been funding Daniel’s research, and Dan’s connection to Eloise would explain why he is doing it.

    As for Theresa in the bed, I don’t think Widmore is the type of guy who would feel obligated to pay for care for someone just because he had funded the experiment that put her there – he’s not that nice of a guy. There will be a connection there that we will see later. Dan’s sister maybe?

    Now remember, Desmond has MET Mrs. Hawkings and may have made the connection already to his own experiences with her, when he saw her name on the paper that Widmore gave him. He had a funny look on his face when he saw it and a sudden reluctance to follow through on his determined search for her. Now it is PENNY who is pushing the continued search. What does she really know?

    No matter what, this was ONE FABULOUS EPISODE!! LOVED THE WHOLE THING!!

  213. BaileyLovesLost says:

    If Widmore knows who Faraday’s mom is and Faraday’s mom is Ms. Hawkings….. then wouldn’t it be possible for Widmore to know that Faraday’s mom is in cahoots with Ben?!

  214. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310472″][quote comment=”310467″]

    Is Charlie (Des and Penny’s Offspring) named after “Charles Widmore or Charlie (Rock-n-Roll)”?? So many Charlies in this story, coincidence are reason for these namings being the same??[/quote]

    Interesting, but I don’t know if Charlie is their son because
    -If DES got off the Island 3 years ago, and Charlie was the one who warned him that its “not Penny’s Boat” right before he got off the Island. Penny and Des have their son after all this. After Charlie dies.
    -ALSO…Charlie had a brother…another musician. I can’t recall if it was an older or younger brother though.[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Too many Charlies, Byanka. Charlie PACE was the musician and was Desmond’s friend on the island – Desmond kept having visions of Charlie’s death and kept trying to save him. Charles WIDMORE is Penny’s dad (and much more). Charlie HUME is the baby, Desmond’s and Penny’s new son.

  215. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310551″]If Widmore knows who Faraday’s mom is and Faraday’s mom is Ms. Hawkings….. then wouldn’t it be possible for Widmore to know that Faraday’s mom is in cahoots with Ben?![/quote]
    ______________________________
    I’m sure he DOES know. More evidence of everyone being somehow connected.

  216. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310509″]I’m not that familiar with H-bombs, but are they supposed to be extremely magnetic? If not, the idea that the H-bomb needed “diffusing” every 108 minutes doesn’t fly. The 108 minutes was keeping that high amount of electricity in check.[/quote]
    At this point, I don’t think the bomb was part of the swan station. I think the swan was harnessing the island’s powers. I like the idea already stated that the device that Dan disabled when he first arrived at the island was set to have Jughead explode.

  217. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310554″][quote comment=”310509″]I’m not that familiar with H-bombs, but are they supposed to be extremely magnetic? If not, the idea that the H-bomb needed “diffusing” every 108 minutes doesn’t fly. The 108 minutes was keeping that high amount of electricity in check.[/quote]
    At this point, I don’t think the bomb was part of the swan station. I think the swan was harnessing the island’s powers. I like the idea already stated that the device that Dan disabled when he first arrived at the island was set to have Jughead explode.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I like this idea too. We now know that Widmore knew all about the bomb AND what was done with it. Dan knew too. What, though, about the special suits and gas masks that they were wearing in order to do it? Would those things protect them from radiation burns? And I have to ask, why would Widmore have wanted to nuke the whole island? Then HE couldn’t have it either.

  218. BaileyLovesLost says:

    I think possibly the girl with the gun could either be the girl in the bed (who wouldn’t be Daniel’s mom because Widmore said she was in L.A.), or Ms. Hawkings – who could be Daniel’s mom. That could mean that Ms. Hawkings is working with Widmore and is maybe working against Ben??

  219. Melissa says:

    [quote comment=”310295″][quote comment=”310284″]holy freaking cow…so widmore was an other, a hostile, on the island…that just blew my mind…[/quote]
    He told Ben last season that the island was his and always was. He’s been there as long as Richard. I mentioned before that he screwed up and moved the island. And he’s been trying to get back ever since. He planted people on 815 and on and on and on….[/quote]

    I was thinking that he got kicked off by Alpert/Jacob – he seems kind of out of control. I don’t think he was on the Black Rock, though – I think he found the Black Rock. He seems to have the kind of personality that would assume control of something he feels very strongly about (i.e., saying he’s been on the island as long as Richard). I think Richard was there waaaaay before those British soldiers (including Widmore) showed up. I like the idea of him having 4 toes – sweet!

  220. LostGrrl says:

    New thought…

    Why was Widmore suddenly so gracious to Desmond — the man who’s been hiding his daughter? It seems as though Widmore is now afraid for his daughter’s safety and thinks that the longer she’s out of sight, the better. But safe from whom??

  221. Melissa says:

    [quote comment=”310551″]If Widmore knows who Faraday’s mom is and Faraday’s mom is Ms. Hawkings….. then wouldn’t it be possible for Widmore to know that Faraday’s mom is in cahoots with Ben?![/quote]

    It’s crazy – at first I was thinking “Okay, so she is Faraday’s mom.” Then I was thinking “Widmore’s setting Des up.” Maybe she’s not really his mother, but that was code from the Faraday/Widmore connection for her – because if she’s interested in time travel like Faraday is, then in a way she’s his intellectual mother. And ultimately Widmore wants these guys to get back to the Island – so he can follow them. But why make the speech about keeping Penny out of it and then send them into Ben’s hands???

  222. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310564″]New thought…

    Why was Widmore suddenly so gracious to Desmond — the man who’s been hiding his daughter? It seems as though Widmore is now afraid for his daughter’s safety and thinks that the longer she’s out of sight, the better. But safe from whom??[/quote]
    Ben told Widmore he was going to kill his daughter….so from Ben.

  223. Melissa says:

    [quote comment=”310414″][quote comment=”310402″]also, alpert is so clean cut in these scenes, but if you remember, when he meets ben for what we we see as the first time, he’s very dirty and long hair…i wonder if there’s a connection there.[/quote]

    My thought is that it was the 70’s and that was the style. *g* It could be a plot point, or it could be that D&C wanted us to see him in the 70’s with the long hair and think, ” Wait! Is that the same guy twenty-five years earlier?” We didn’t know Richard “didn’t age” and could “time travel” back then.

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think that like all of the Others, he was in disguise. At that time, they were warring with the Dharma folks, so they were probably dressing like savages (same as they did when 815 crashed).

  224. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310557″][quote comment=”310554″][quote comment=”310509″]I’m not that familiar with H-bombs, but are they supposed to be extremely magnetic? If not, the idea that the H-bomb needed “diffusing” every 108 minutes doesn’t fly. The 108 minutes was keeping that high amount of electricity in check.[/quote]
    At this point, I don’t think the bomb was part of the swan station. I think the swan was harnessing the island’s powers. I like the idea already stated that the device that Dan disabled when he first arrived at the island was set to have Jughead explode.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I like this idea too. We now know that Widmore knew all about the bomb AND what was done with it. Dan knew too. What, though, about the special suits and gas masks that they were wearing in order to do it? Would those things protect them from radiation burns? And I have to ask, why would Widmore have wanted to nuke the whole island? Then HE couldn’t have it either.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    I have to go rewatch that episode. Was the device’s countdown to go off after Ben was extracted? Widmore doesn’t care about the people who would have died on the island from and H-Bomb, it would have made the island go away, just uninhabited.

  225. DocH says:

    Agree with Hammer on – the bomb was not part of the swan station.

    Could all of the nosebleeds we have seen recently have anything to do with radiation “allergies” (acute sensitivity)?

    Good to see that the ‘hostiles’ can age. Widmore has been off-island awhile – seems to age normally. How’d he get so rich? – knowing folks from his future might have helped.

    Ellie may be travelling (in her mind) like Desmond – “the other she thought she was three years old”.

    Why did Pen & Des have a split-up. She alluded to a brief period after the rescue that they weren’t together (we were on a break!) no?

  226. BaileyLovesLost says:

    I thought of something! Widmore obviously wants to keep Penny safe because Ben cleary told him last season that he is going to kill his daughter since the rules were changed and Alex was killed by Keamy. That’s why Widmore wants Penny to stay hiding!

  227. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310498″]So, I thought one of the cardinal rules of time travel was you can’t alter the course of history. Daniel says that to Sawyer a number of times. But Locke visits Richard in this episode, tells him that he, Locke, will be borne two years hence and that Richard should visit, which Richard does. So the history that WOULD have unfolded (Richard does NOT visit the unknown John Locke) is altered to unfold WITH Richard visiting the young John Locke. What am I missing?

    Or is Richard exempt, or special somehow like Desmond, or everyone’s constant? When he meets Locke in jungle after Locke is shot, he gives him the compass with the definitive statement “Next time you meet me, I won’t know you.” So Richard is at that point remembering John Locke appearing to him in 1952. But which handoff happened “first” — Locke gives compass to Richard in 1952, or Richard gives compass to Locke in 200X? And regardless of your answer of which handoff happened first, the how did the other happen as a result?[/quote]
    Regarding your first point about altering history….I don’t think anything was altered. Like Daniel and Mrs. Hawkings have said, you can’t change the past. So whether you’re viewing Locke’s birth from the perspective of Locke’s mother, who gets a visit from Richard in the hospital, or from our perspective, when we saw in a flashback Richard showing up at the hospital, Richard was always at the hospital when Locke was born. Now we know how he knew to get there – a time-traveling John Locke gave him the idea.

    Regarding the compass handoff….very intriguing issue. The lifespan of the compass as depicted in the show allows no time for the compass to actually be built! This seems to be a paradox of time travel.

  228. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”310470″]I thought it was so interesting that Locke didn’t kill who we now know was young Widmore because “he is one of my people”…and, Widmore does seem very genuine and truthful when Des visits him. We think that Locke is a good person (from what we know and feel). Which then makes me think…if this is a battle between Ben and Widmore then who is the guy that we want to win? Who is the good guy? Right now I am thinking Widmore is the good of the two and Ben is not. Especially if Widmore is one of John’s people. Does that make any sense or am I just totally LOST?
    :)[/quote]

    I don’t believe either one of them are the “good guys” they are just battling for island control. Each want control to manipulate some island quality. Widmore is a hothead. His whole cutting off arm trick was probably not sanctioned and I’m pretty sure snapping the neck of his ‘captain’ will be frowned upon, otherwise he would have come clean when Alpert pressed him.

  229. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310572″]
    Ellie may be travelling (in her mind) like Desmond – “the other she thought she was three years old”.

    Why did Pen & Des have a split-up. She alluded to a brief period after the rescue that they weren’t together (we were on a break!) no?[/quote]
    That wasn’t Ellie, that was Daniel’s old girlfriend(?) in the bed. And I agree she’s experiencing the same thing Desmond and Minkwitz did., only for some reason she hasn’t died like Minkwitz did. And like others here have said, her situation is most likely due to Faraday’s experiments.

    Regarding the Penny and desmond split up – she was talking about their split-up before Desmond went to the island. That was shown back in season 2, when Desmond went off on the round-the-world boat race.

  230. Toeknee says:

    PJ – regarding your comment #188 – I am thoroughly impressed by your use of italics and bold! What’s your secret? Is it [b][/b] or something like that?

  231. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”310465″][quote comment=”310299″]awww…des named his son charlie…does that make you feel better pj, technically now there is a charlie on the show :)[/quote]
    Or he was named for his grandfather- Charles. (no, probably not, but I’m just sayin…)[/quote]

    I didn’t even think of that! Great catch. It can’t be just and accident that there is so much repetition with that name. I’m still waiting to see if there’s any connection between Claire’s psychic’s daughter Charlotte (the one with the near death experience) and Charlotte Lewis…

  232. Vaughn K says:

    i bet that by the series finale next season, everything in this show will go back to the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42). it will sum it all up i mean they have been around basically since the show started and the writers always sneak them in places but never tell us what they mean. until the series finale…

  233. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”310489″]So, apologies if already said (I’m new to this discussion group.) So the moving of the island is how the Black Rock wound up so deep in the island jungle? Just as we saw the island seemingly sink out of sight when it vanished, it was “unsink” into sight when it reappears. So is it possible that the island just happened to re-appear right underneath where the Black Rock was sailing at that moment, thereby stranding it deep on the island?[/quote]

    OOOHHH – I LOVE that idea! that would explain how its stranded smack in the middle!

  234. Lotto Winner says:

    [quote comment=”310345″]Walt is special but not a chosen leader. Hugo is special but not a chosen leader. Miles is special but not a chosen leader. Desmond is special but not a chosen leader.

    They are all helpful to the island, but not the chosen leaders.[/quote]

    This may have been discussed previously, but regarding ‘choosing new leaders’. The selection process for Locke was just like how new Dalai Lama’s are choosen. They then become the spiritual leader.

  235. jleebee says:

    [quote comment=”310587″][quote comment=”310345″]Walt is special but not a chosen leader. Hugo is special but not a chosen leader. Miles is special but not a chosen leader. Desmond is special but not a chosen leader.

    They are all helpful to the island, but not the chosen leaders.[/quote]

    This may have been discussed previously, but regarding ‘choosing new leaders’. The selection process for Locke was just like how new Dalai Lama’s are choosen. They then become the spiritual leader.[/quote]

    i love that!

    there are a ton of spiritual and metaphysical references, i am not sure if they mean anything…

    Bentham, Alpert, Jacob, Hawking, all are references, i am quite sure there are more as well.

  236. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”310564″]New thought…

    Why was Widmore suddenly so gracious to Desmond — the man who’s been hiding his daughter? It seems as though Widmore is now afraid for his daughter’s safety and thinks that the longer she’s out of sight, the better. But safe from whom??[/quote]

    I also thought this, especially the way he reacted to SUN approaching him. And Desmond stormed right into his office! I think Widmore knows exactly what is going down with Ben’s plan to get everyone back to the island. He also knows that what Ben wants most is Penny – dead. So that’s what I took it to mean. But he could have warned him that Ben was after Penny, that would have only been polite.

  237. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310377″]
    I think the girl on the bed (Teresa Spencer) might be related to the girl who takes Daniel to the H-bomb at gun point on the 1954 island. I recall he told her “you look sooooo much like somebody I used to know.”[/quote]
    You may have figured out from the other comments that he was most likely referring to his mother when he made that statement. So it’s kind of funny that she said something about him being a real Romeo, and also funny that he said something like “far from it”.

    But another thought about that line – did he actually word it “used to know”? So does that mean he has lost contact with his mother? Remember how he told Desmond to go to Oxford, but she was no longer there. So does he have parent issues too, like so many other characters? Or am I reading too much into it?

  238. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”310572″]Agree with Hammer on – the bomb was not part of the swan station.

    Could all of the nosebleeds we have seen recently have anything to do with radiation “allergies” (acute sensitivity)?

    Good to see that the ‘hostiles’ can age. Widmore has been off-island awhile – seems to age normally. How’d he get so rich? – knowing folks from his future might have helped.

    Ellie may be travelling (in her mind) like Desmond – “the other she thought she was three years old”.

    Why did Pen & Des have a split-up. She alluded to a brief period after the rescue that they weren’t together (we were on a break!) no?[/quote]

    I took that to mean she was refering to the time just after they got their picture taken, when he decides he has to prove himself by entering in the boat race.

  239. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310583″]PJ – regarding your comment #188 – I am thoroughly impressed by your use of italics and bold! What’s your secret? Is it [b][/b] or something like that?[/quote]

    Why thank you, Toeknee. *blushing*

    Bold and italics and underline are not difficult once you know the key – kind of like figuring out LOST!

    to do bold, you insert
    (without the spaces) before and
    (also without the spaces) after whatever you want to be bold.

    italics is
    and
    (without the spaces)

    underline is
    and
    (without the spaces)

    Of course, I haven’t ever tried underline on this blog, so it might not work and I won’t know until I post this! LOL

    : ) P

  240. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310585″]i bet that by the series finale next season, everything in this show will go back to the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42). it will sum it all up i mean they have been around basically since the show started and the writers always sneak them in places but never tell us what they mean. until the series finale…[/quote]
    Vaughn, just in case you aren’t aware of this, in one of the alternate reality games the producers came up with to fill the time between seasons of Lost, the nubers were shown to be related to what they called Valenzetti’s equation. Hammer touched upon this in his comment #13, and you can read more about it here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Valenzetti_Equation

  241. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310594″]Of course, I haven’t ever tried underline on this blog, so it might not work and I won’t know until I post this! LOL
    [/quote]

    Okay, so not only did the underline feature not work, but putting extra spaces in the HTML code didn’t fool the blog.

    you use b and /b inside these brackets

    for bold

    and i and /i inside these brackets

    for italics

    and on some blogs u and /u works for underline.

    : ) P

  242. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310596″]Okay, so not only did the underline feature not work, but putting extra spaces in the HTML code didn’t fool the blog.
    [/quote]

    Okay, so the blog doesn’t print the brackets at all – even if there isn’t anything in between them. So I will tell you that the brackets you use for HTML code are those that you get when you hit SHIFT and the period and SHIFT and the comma.

    I officially give up on figuring out a way to explain it if this doesn’t work.

    : ) P

  243. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310595″][quote comment=”310585″]i bet that by the series finale next season, everything in this show will go back to the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42). it will sum it all up i mean they have been around basically since the show started and the writers always sneak them in places but never tell us what they mean. until the series finale…[/quote]
    Vaughn, just in case you aren’t aware of this, in one of the alternate reality games the producers came up with to fill the time between seasons of Lost, the nubers were shown to be related to what they called Valenzetti’s equation. Hammer touched upon this in his comment #13, and you can read more about it here:

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Valenzetti_Equation%5B/quote%5D

    yea i know all about that but that doesnt mean that part of the show is done because we still see the numbers everywhere, im just saying by the end of the show they will prove to play a huge part in this show

  244. duke says:

    [quote comment=”310267″]I’m waiting to find out if the soldier girl will turn out to be Faraday’s mother – who may be Eloise/Mrs. Hawkings/ ?[/quote]
    I believe that the island girl who walked faraday to the bomb is the mother of the girl in the vegatative state that faraday had a hand in putting her in that condition.

  245. duke says:

    [quote comment=”310346″][quote comment=”310342″]i cant remember when richard came to see locke when he was a boy, did locke pick the compass up or did he pick one of the other items up?[/quote]
    I think he had to pick three things. He picked the knife, compass and a book. i think the book was the wrong choice[/quote]
    The knife was the wrong choice. he picked the compass, a jar of ashes/dirt, and the knife.

  246. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310572″]Why did Pen & Des have a split-up. She alluded to a brief period after the rescue that they weren’t together (we were on a break!) no?[/quote]

    I thought she was talking about when Des left to go on the boat race instead of marrying her.

  247. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310554″][quote comment=”310509″]I’m not that familiar with H-bombs, but are they supposed to be extremely magnetic? If not, the idea that the H-bomb needed “diffusing” every 108 minutes doesn’t fly. The 108 minutes was keeping that high amount of electricity in check.[/quote]
    At this point, I don’t think the bomb was part of the swan station. I think the swan was harnessing the island’s powers. I like the idea already stated that the device that Dan disabled when he first arrived at the island was set to have Jughead explode.[/quote]

    ****************
    that does make sense, especiallly since dan noticed the radiation burns on that one guy and isn’t that the same thing that juliett treated goodwin for? didn’t he work in the station that housed the now supposed bomb?

  248. Miraks says:

    Some questions/ thoughts/ comments.
    Alpert:
    -He is obviously in charge at the camp, but not the highest up (that would be Jacob?).
    -Can he really time travel? From what we are finding out, it seems that he never did time travel. Not only that, he didn’t even know it was possible until Locke told him. He went to see baby Locke because he was told to AHEAD of time to do so.
    Hostiles/ Others:
    -How do we know they don’t age? I can’t think of anyone besides Alpert that does not age. We didn’t see Ethan or Tom or any of the other Others we know at the camp last night. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that they DO age, BUT Alpert is the exception?
    Ellie soldier girl/ Eloise Hawkins:
    -Definately think that she one and the same person, quite possibly Daniel’s mom.
    -NOT the same girl in the coma.
    Charles Widmore:
    -I think the reason he told Ben the island was “his” was not because he was actualy ever in charge of the island, but because he had been there before Ben. He seemed just as arrogant back in his youth as he is now. Maybe after Locke’s revelations to Alpert about what was going to happen in the future, Widmore freaked out.
    -Could Widmore been have behind Locke’s mom getting run over when he was born?

  249. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310498″]So, I thought one of the cardinal rules of time travel was you can’t alter the course of history. Daniel says that to Sawyer a number of times. But Locke visits Richard in this episode, tells him that he, Locke, will be borne two years hence and that Richard should visit, which Richard does. So the history that WOULD have unfolded (Richard does NOT visit the unknown John Locke) is altered to unfold WITH Richard visiting the young John Locke. What am I missing?

    Or is Richard exempt, or special somehow like Desmond, or everyone’s constant? When he meets Locke in jungle after Locke is shot, he gives him the compass with the definitive statement “Next time you meet me, I won’t know you.” So Richard is at that point remembering John Locke appearing to him in 1952. But which handoff happened “first” — Locke gives compass to Richard in 1952, or Richard gives compass to Locke in 200X? And regardless of your answer of which handoff happened first, the how did the other happen as a result?[/quote]

    I also believe it IS possible to change things, which contradicts what Dan told James. I think Dan knows things can be changed and wants to make sure he is the only one who makes the changes…

    As for the compass paradox, I have thought about this for a while and can only conclude that it is what it is. Moving the compass through time put it on a different course — one where it loops continuously from John to Richard to John again. This would be hard to explain to a theoretical physicist, so I won’t even attempt it in this blog!

  250. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310585″]i bet that by the series finale next season, everything in this show will go back to the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42). it will sum it all up i mean they have been around basically since the show started and the writers always sneak them in places but never tell us what they mean. until the series finale…[/quote]
    The owners were kind enough to give me a thread for a Numbers Theory today where we can discuss this further….if you like.

  251. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”310498″]So, I thought one of the cardinal rules of time travel was you can’t alter the course of history. Daniel says that to Sawyer a number of times. But Locke visits Richard in this episode, tells him that he, Locke, will be borne two years hence and that Richard should visit, which Richard does. So the history that WOULD have unfolded (Richard does NOT visit the unknown John Locke) is altered to unfold WITH Richard visiting the young John Locke. What am I missing?

    Or is Richard exempt, or special somehow like Desmond, or everyone’s constant? When he meets Locke in jungle after Locke is shot, he gives him the compass with the definitive statement “Next time you meet me, I won’t know you.” So Richard is at that point remembering John Locke appearing to him in 1952. But which handoff happened “first” — Locke gives compass to Richard in 1952, or Richard gives compass to Locke in 200X? And regardless of your answer of which handoff happened first, the how did the other happen as a result?[/quote]

    My problem with this is why didnt Locke recognize Alpert the first time they met (I think it was when Alpert gave Locke Sawyer’s file so Locke could have Sawyer kill his dad). Shouldn’t Locke have remembered Alpert from when he visited him as a child?

    Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?

  252. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310606″] This would be hard to explain to a theoretical physicist, so I won’t even attempt it in this blog![/quote]
    ++++++
    Slap!!!!! :)

  253. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310611″][quote comment=”310498″]Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?[/quote]

  254. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310611″][quote comment=”310498″]Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?[/quote]

  255. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310611″][quote comment=”310498″]Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?[/quote]

    This is what I was alluding to in comment 25. I think the numbers represent the O6 in some way.

  256. sector7 says:

    katesFriend wrote: My problem with this is why didnt Locke recognize Alpert the first time they met (I think it was when Alpert gave Locke Sawyer’s file so Locke could have Sawyer kill his dad). Shouldn’t Locke have remembered Alpert from when he visited him as a child?

    ____________________________________________

    I think this is because when you go to the past and change something, it creates a new reality. Yes, Dan said you can’t do that, but Des proved you can if you’re “special”. Isn’t John special too?

  257. wallyp says:

    Does anybody remember when Richard visits young Locke that there is a crayon drawing of the smoke monster? I don’t know if Richard catches it either. Either Richard has no idea of time travel at that time, OR he is trying to catch Locke at a point where Locke is communicating through his past self.

    If Richard doesn’t know about time travel by the early sixties, I’m guessing that Charles Widmore is the one who discovers it… accidentally exiting himself from the island, but starting a whole obsessive search, which could lead to a hundred different possibilities of where Daniel Faraday, Locke, that creepy Abbadon guy etc. fit in. messing with Richard Alperts purpose, which is solely to maintain seclusiveness to the island since the year one.

    Anyway, I think Richard gets the compass back to Locke at some point, and in Season one Locke decides he doesn’t need it anymore, when he gets to the island.

  258. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310611″][quote comment=”310498″]So, I thought one of the cardinal rules of time travel was you can’t alter the course of history. Daniel says that to Sawyer a number of times. But Locke visits Richard in this episode, tells him that he, Locke, will be borne two years hence and that Richard should visit, which Richard does. So the history that WOULD have unfolded (Richard does NOT visit the unknown John Locke) is altered to unfold WITH Richard visiting the young John Locke. What am I missing?

    Or is Richard exempt, or special somehow like Desmond, or everyone’s constant? When he meets Locke in jungle after Locke is shot, he gives him the compass with the definitive statement “Next time you meet me, I won’t know you.” So Richard is at that point remembering John Locke appearing to him in 1952. But which handoff happened “first” — Locke gives compass to Richard in 1952, or Richard gives compass to Locke in 200X? And regardless of your answer of which handoff happened first, the how did the other happen as a result?[/quote]

    My problem with this is why didnt Locke recognize Alpert the first time they met (I think it was when Alpert gave Locke Sawyer’s file so Locke could have Sawyer kill his dad). Shouldn’t Locke have remembered Alpert from when he visited him as a child?

    Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?[/quote]
    __________________________
    I wouldn’t expect Locke to remember Alpert. Locke was 5 at the time, and they met again 40+ years later. I sure don’t remember too many things from when I was 5, let alone a person who spent 5 minutes talking to me.

  259. pete says:

    wondering what happened to #1 the degroots #2mittlewerk we never see the degroots on the island just horace. where is mittlewerk and this virus?

  260. WillbeLost says:

    when we see Faraday in last season episode entitled, Confirmed Dead, where he is sitting in his chair, watching the recovery of Oceanic airplane, why is he crying and who is the nurse behind him, is it the same nurse is caring for Theresa Spencer?

  261. Is Penny and Desmond’s son Charlie named after rocker Charlie who died in the underwater hatch or actually the same person? Or named after Grandpa Charles Whitmore? A time warp could have separated baby Charlie from Mom Penny and Daddy Des and then brought him back to the island on 815. I’d like to rewatch the episodes with Des in the underwater hatch and Charlie, as well as when he spoke to Penny on the screen. Maybe when rocker Charlie and Claire were abducted in season 1 they weren’t just after Claire. Any thoughts?

  262. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310615″][quote comment=”310611″][quote comment=”310498″]Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?[/quote]

    This is what I was alluding to in comment 25. I think the numbers represent the O6 in some way.[/quote]
    +++++++
    I am going to copy and paste this on the new Numbers Theory thread.

  263. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310621″]Is Penny and Desmond’s son Charlie named after rocker Charlie who died in the underwater hatch or actually the same person? Or named after Grandpa Charles Whitmore? A time warp could have separated baby Charlie from Mom Penny and Daddy Des and then brought him back to the island on 815. I’d like to rewatch the episodes with Des in the underwater hatch and Charlie, as well as when he spoke to Penny on the screen. Maybe when rocker Charlie and Claire were abducted in season 1 they weren’t just after Claire. Any thoughts?[/quote]
    I think we saw Charlie’s dad in an episode about his childhood. It wasn’t Des.

  264. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”310611″][quote comment=”310498″][/quote]

    My problem with this is why didnt Locke recognize Alpert the first time they met (I think it was when Alpert gave Locke Sawyer’s file so Locke could have Sawyer kill his dad). Shouldn’t Locke have remembered Alpert from when he visited him as a child?

    Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?[/quote]

    It’s asking alot of a four year old kid to remember a person forty years in the future… but- it should also be noted that time travelers have constant memory lapses, this is why Daniel Farady always has to check his journal. I think the memory lapses are caused by the fact that history is always changing.

  265. SerbianChris says:

    [quote comment=”310204″]
    +++++++
    Good point, maybe the arrow flingers and gun wielders were in battle with each other. We assumed that are on the same side.[/quote]
    —————————————————-

    Without a doubt.
    The “others” only fought with arrows. the guns they carry are stolen/taken from the US soldiers. They arents theirs.

  266. JotBar says:

    here’s a thought that you guys will definately find some fault in but its just a raw theory…….Widmore was supposed to rule the island and felt it was his right to be the highest rank above richard when the time was right… later, richard discovered Ben Linus and Widmore began to get jealous……Ben using his manipulation skills “manipulated” his way into becoming the leader and proved his loyalty with the purge. with ben being appointed leader, Widmore became angry and out of control and either did something stupid and got banished or ben just didnt like him and got the other others to help him be-rid of him…. my thoughts are that widmore was supposed to be the true leader and richard made a mistake. in an episode when u meet jacod, jacod said to locke “help me” because ben has probably found some way of controling jacob to fully control the island. as a result, the island gives ben a large tumor and kills every mother who tries to give birth to a new child attempting to ruin their civilization.

  267. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310627″]It’s asking alot of a four year old kid to remember a person forty years in the future.[/quote]

    Exactly.

    To anyone who thinks Locke should remember Alpert from the brief visit with him as a five year old. I challenge you to remember the name and face of your kindergarten teacher, your pediatrician at the time and the mother of your best friend. If you can do that, then MAYBE you can remember the name and face of every person who ever had a short conversation with you during the year you were five. *bg*

    I think sometimes we are looking for connections and issues where there are none. Not EVERYTHING on this show is going to have a connection to something! LOL. And I think D&C are purposefully putting in red herrings to throw us off.

    : ) P

  268. SerbianChris says:

    In my opinion I’m pretty certain Hawking is Daniel’s Mother.
    I think that The young lady soldier, Ellie, is Ms Hawking, Daniel’s mom. from a timeline poitn of view it makes lots of sense, and daniel sees her as very familiar, of course this is her way before daniel was born so he wouldnt know exactly how she looked like but he’s super familiar. my money’s on the fact that

    Hawking = Ellie = Dan’s mom.

    However Eloise (sick lady) isnt, her and faraday were the same age in the pic, plus the sister knows faraday and so on.. too many reasons not to believe it.
    It might be charlotte tho, but i doubt that too.

    one thing we should mention is that the sister said that eloise had been talking to her dad, who’s been dead 5 years.
    That about the time the plane crashed. Is Eloise’s dad one of the losties? I’ll bet!
    Probably an older guy, but who.

  269. Jaime says:

    [quote comment=”310407″][quote comment=”310224″]So who, what, is Jughead? Any ideas?

    I did a little wikiopedia research on JUGHEAD and came up with a few things that i thought were interseting

    1. Jughead, a 19th century slang term meaning a mule

    2. Mark 17 nuclear bomb – Nicknamed “Jughead”

    3. The Kool-Aid Man, known in Canada as “Jug Head”

    Its got to be the Kool-Aid man :)[/quote]

    According to this article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb

    the “Jughead” Mark 17 nuclear bomb was cryogenic!!! (aka very low temperatures…) I’m thinking this explains the frozen donkey wheel situation!![/quote]
    ******************************************

    Ooooh good one

  270. SerbianChris says:

    Regarding the Alpert storming off thing
    He didnt really get mad, it was an act, he purposely added a false item to make sure it’s john, and john actually passed.
    He just pretended that he failed and left.
    He was there under the pretext that he was sending john to a special school, so he had to pretend locke failed otherwise he’d have to take the kid to that school, and it was bs to start with.
    Also he might have done that to incite john to be more curious about this later on.
    But john didnt fail as a child.

  271. and found... says:

    i guess the dog is finally gone, he was my favorite character cause he survived so much but since all the other people have disappeared i guess he has too

  272. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310635″]In my opinion I’m pretty certain Hawking is Daniel’s Mother.
    I think that The young lady soldier, Ellie, is Ms Hawking, Daniel’s mom. from a timeline poitn of view it makes lots of sense, and daniel sees her as very familiar, of course this is her way before daniel was born so he wouldnt know exactly how she looked like but he’s super familiar. my money’s on the fact that

    Hawking = Ellie = Dan’s mom.

    However Eloise (sick lady) isnt, her and faraday were the same age in the pic, plus the sister knows faraday and so on.. too many reasons not to believe it.
    It might be charlotte tho, but i doubt that too.

    one thing we should mention is that the sister said that eloise had been talking to her dad, who’s been dead 5 years.
    That about the time the plane crashed. Is Eloise’s dad one of the losties? I’ll bet!
    Probably an older guy, but who.[/quote]

    the sick girl’s name is theresa though, not eloise. mrs. hawking’s first name is supposedly eloise which i suppose ellie could be a nickname for…

  273. Jay says:

    Did anyone notice that Widmore told Des to “deliver your message” (to Dan’s mother) and then vanish again with Penny? I don’t remember Desmond saying anything about a message. If he did, I’m wrong. If he didn’t – then Widmore already knows why Des came to see him. Did he get this information from something that happened in the past or is yet to happen in the futrue?

    Also, I think Richard is as old as the island itself. Not human – he is probably the same type of force/entity/special powers as Jacob: all of the others can be categorized as something less special.

  274. whodey says:

    the bomb was definately in the swan because i just watched an episode of season 2 and there is a huge wall of concrete sayid says is about 10 feet thick and there is concrete poured all over the place…what did daniel say they needed to do? bury it in concrete…thanks

  275. Francesco says:

    [quote comment=”310631″][quote comment=”310627″]It’s asking alot of a four year old kid to remember a person forty years in the future.[/quote]

    Exactly.

    To anyone who thinks Locke should remember Alpert from the brief visit with him as a five year old. I challenge you to remember the name and face of your kindergarten teacher, your pediatrician at the time and the mother of your best friend. If you can do that, then MAYBE you can remember the name and face of every person who ever had a short conversation with you during the year you were five. *bg*

    I think sometimes we are looking for connections and issues where there are none. Not EVERYTHING on this show is going to have a connection to something! LOL. And I think D&C are purposefully putting in red herrings to throw us off.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Agreed. I remember going through a bunch of tests at school in Grade 3 (so, about 8-9 years old – 4 years older than Locke) that lasted about 1-2 hours. I don’t remember the face of the person giving the test. I don’t even recall whether it was a male or a female. There is know way Locke should remember Alpert.

  276. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”310631″][quote comment=”310627″]It’s asking alot of a four year old kid to remember a person forty years in the future.[/quote]

    Exactly.

    To anyone who thinks Locke should remember Alpert from the brief visit with him as a five year old. I challenge you to remember the name and face of your kindergarten teacher, your pediatrician at the time and the mother of your best friend. If you can do that, then MAYBE you can remember the name and face of every person who ever had a short conversation with you during the year you were five. *bg*

    I think sometimes we are looking for connections and issues where there are none. Not EVERYTHING on this show is going to have a connection to something! LOL. And I think D&C are purposefully putting in red herrings to throw us off.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Ok, I will give you that it is hard to remember stuff from 5yo, but that seemed like a pretty important event, something unusual in the life of an orphan at a foster home (how many other visitors do you think he had there?)

    But still, I feel there are other things like this: why didn’t Locke recognize Ethan? if that was in the past, then when Ethan pretended to be a flight survivor, Locke should have known

    Or Desmond and Faraday: shouldn’t Des have remembered Farady (I mean when they originally met from our perspective) from when some strange man banged on the hatch door?

    I guess the main confusion I am having is with travelling to the past — how and when can/does it change people’s memories?

  277. Miraks says:

    [/quote]

    But still, I feel there are other things like this: why didn’t Locke recognize Ethan? if that was in the past, then when Ethan pretended to be a flight survivor, Locke should have known

    Or Desmond and Faraday: shouldn’t Des have remembered Farady (I mean when they originally met from our perspective) from when some strange man banged on the hatch door?

    I guess the main confusion I am having is with travelling to the past — how and when can/does it change people’s memories?[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Because it had not happened yet. The past as it is now had not happened. It is hard to understand, but Locke had not met Ethan when they first met after the crash. Their meeting in the jungle occured after the crash (from their perspective), but before froma linear time perspective.

  278. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”310644″][quote comment=”310631″][quote comment=”310627″]It’s asking alot of a four year old kid to remember a person forty years in the future.[/quote]

    Exactly.

    To anyone who thinks Locke should remember Alpert from the brief visit with him as a five year old. I challenge you to remember the name and face of your kindergarten teacher, your pediatrician at the time and the mother of your best friend. If you can do that, then MAYBE you can remember the name and face of every person who ever had a short conversation with you during the year you were five. *bg*

    I think sometimes we are looking for connections and issues where there are none. Not EVERYTHING on this show is going to have a connection to something! LOL. And I think D&C are purposefully putting in red herrings to throw us off.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Ok, I will give you that it is hard to remember stuff from 5yo, but that seemed like a pretty important event, something unusual in the life of an orphan at a foster home (how many other visitors do you think he had there?)

    But still, I feel there are other things like this: why didn’t Locke recognize Ethan? if that was in the past, then when Ethan pretended to be a flight survivor, Locke should have known

    Or Desmond and Faraday: shouldn’t Des have remembered Farady (I mean when they originally met from our perspective) from when some strange man banged on the hatch door?

    I guess the main confusion I am having is with travelling to the past — how and when can/does it change people’s memories?[/quote]

    Time travelers suffer memory loss… but also, when Desmond was inside himself in 1996, his 1996 concience was switched with his 2004. He in 1996 never had a chance to talk to Daniel. He was on the freightor wondering why in the hell he had a beard, and thought he was having some crazy dream

  279. SerbianChris says:

    [quote comment=”310639″]
    the sick girl’s name is theresa though, not eloise. mrs. hawking’s first name is supposedly eloise which i suppose ellie could be a nickname for…[/quote]

    ————————————————
    Right, my bad… i meant theresa.
    still dont think theresa is ellie or hawking. but who knows.

  280. vavila says:

    katesFriend, I’ll do my best to explain because it all makes sense to me, but it is really diffcult to explain… basically, in the last night’s episode, following PJ’s Current Island Time definition (2005), we had 2005 Lock who travelled to 1950s and met 1950s Alpert. 1950s Alpert did not meet Lock yet thus does not recognize him, unlike 2005 Lock, who met Alpert.

    The same, but a bit more complicated with Des: 2005 Daniel meets 2005 Des, when 2005 Daniel travels into the past and meets button pushing Des, Des did not meet Daniel yet (since they meet only in 2005). That is also why when 2005 Des travels to when was it -1996?- to meet Daniel in Oxford, 1996 Daniel has not met Des yet and therefore does not recognize him…

    It is confusing, basically when characters travel they do not recognize each other if they were not acquainted at the time they travel into even if they meet in the future…
    Hope it helps…

  281. katesFriend says:

    Also, is Theresa’s (the girl in the coma) caretaker, the same person we thought was taking care of Faraday when we first met him?

    Maybe Faraday didn’t need a caretaker, but instead lived with Theresa and her caretaker, that is why the woman said Faraday abandoned Theresa

  282. SerbianChris says:

    [quote comment=”310434″]
    The good news is that the on-island survivors aren’t jumping around in time for three years *from their perspective* while they wait for Desmond to have that dream/memory.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]
    ————————————————–

    PJ, would you elaborate on this, I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.

    The on-island are jumping all over time, while off island are fixed 3 yrs after the freighter explosion.

    If this is what you said I agree, but what do you mean by “wait”, and why is that good news?

  283. vavila says:

    [

    I guess the main confusion I am having is with travelling to the past — how and when can/does it change people’s memories?[/quote]

    Time travelers suffer memory loss… but also, when Desmond was inside himself in 1996, his 1996 concience was switched with his 2004. He in 1996 never had a chance to talk to Daniel. He was on the freightor wondering why in the hell he had a beard, and thought he was having some crazy dream[/quote]


    I think that if 2005 Lock will now return to 2005, then he will now remember how he travelled to 1950s, but he had no memory of this prior to O6’s departure because his travel to 1950s did not happen yet…
    That’s why Des in 2008 remembers what Daniel telling him to find his mother – because it just happened int he past and only now in 2008 became his memory…

  284. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”310650″]katesFriend, I’ll do my best to explain because it all makes sense to me, but it is really diffcult to explain… basically, in the last night’s episode, following PJ’s Current Island Time definition (2005), we had 2005 Lock who travelled to 1950s and met 1950s Alpert. 1950s Alpert did not meet Lock yet thus does not recognize him, unlike 2005 Lock, who met Alpert.

    The same, but a bit more complicated with Des: 2005 Daniel meets 2005 Des, when 2005 Daniel travels into the past and meets button pushing Des, Des did not meet Daniel yet (since they meet only in 2005). That is also why when 2005 Des travels to when was it -1996?- to meet Daniel in Oxford, 1996 Daniel has not met Des yet and therefore does not recognize him…

    It is confusing, basically when characters travel they do not recognize each other if they were not acquainted at the time they travel into even if they meet in the future…
    Hope it helps…[/quote]

    Thanks Vavila, but I think we may be talking about different things, again difficult to explain but here goes:

    Locke and Alpert: Why does Locke (after the crash, before frozen donkey wheel) not recognize Alpert when Alpert brings him Sawyer’s file? PJ et al above suggest Locke just didn’t remember Alpert from his childhood, but I think it would have been a significant experience

    Des/Faraday: Des works for Dharma (well, Kelvin) pushing a button in a hatch. Some man knocks on the door, IDs himself as Faraday, tells Des info. Then, a few years later, 815 crashes, Locke finds Des, Des ends up meeting Faraday for the first time (I think when everything happened on the freighter). Why did Des (on the freighter/at Oxford the first time) not remember Faraday as that strange man that knocked on the hatch door when he was with Kelvin?

    Sorry so long, I just really want to figure this out! Thanks for any help!

  285. duke says:

    Does anyone remember when Lost first introduced Daniel. He was watching news footage of the discovery of Oceanic flight 815 plane wreckage. Could the lady in the bed be the one who asked him why he was crying? I do not remember if they showed her face or not.

  286. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”310656″]Does anyone remember when Lost first introduced Daniel. He was watching news footage of the discovery of Oceanic flight 815 plane wreckage. Could the lady in the bed be the one who asked him why he was crying? I do not remember if they showed her face or not.[/quote]

    see comment 281, i think the 3 of them (faraday, caretaker, theresa) lived together, and it was Theresa’s caretaker, not faraday’s

  287. Miraks says:

    Still need these questions answered
    -Can Alpert really time travel? From what we are finding out, it seems that he never did time travel. Not only that, he didn’t even know it was possible until Locke told him. He went to see baby Locke because he was told to AHEAD of time to do so.
    -Why do people believe that the Others/ Hostiles don’t age? I can’t think of anyone besides Alpert that does not age. We didn’t see Ethan or Tom or any of the other Others we know at the camp last night. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that they DO age, BUT Alpert is the exception?
    -Could Widmore been have behind Locke’s mom getting run over the day he was born?
    -Could he also have been behind Juliette’s ex getting run over by the bus (maybe she was the real target)?

    Also, last week I remember several posters saying that you could only travel back to a time when you had been alive. This is obviously not the case, since none of our guys were alive in the time they went back to last night.

  288. katesFriend says:

    ok,the numbers (4,8,15,16,23, 42) add up to 108, the amount of time after which a button must be pressed to save the world

    and if each O6 is one of the numbers, they all add up to something else that will save the world, i guess returning to the island together

  289. katesFriend says:

    From Lostpedia:

    The numbers in actuality are said to represent human and environmental factors in the equation (given numerical form), though their precise meaning is uncertain. One purpose of the DHARMA Initiative was to change the factors leading to humanity’s demise, which will be indicated by an alteration in at least one of the human/environmental factors – i.e. the numbers

  290. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310655″][quote comment=”310650″]katesFriend, I’ll do my best to explain because it all makes sense to me, but it is really diffcult to explain… basically, in the last night’s episode, following PJ’s Current Island Time definition (2005), we had 2005 Lock who travelled to 1950s and met 1950s Alpert. 1950s Alpert did not meet Lock yet thus does not recognize him, unlike 2005 Lock, who met Alpert.

    The same, but a bit more complicated with Des: 2005 Daniel meets 2005 Des, when 2005 Daniel travels into the past and meets button pushing Des, Des did not meet Daniel yet (since they meet only in 2005). That is also why when 2005 Des travels to when was it -1996?- to meet Daniel in Oxford, 1996 Daniel has not met Des yet and therefore does not recognize him…

    It is confusing, basically when characters travel they do not recognize each other if they were not acquainted at the time they travel into even if they meet in the future…
    Hope it helps…[/quote]

    Thanks Vavila, but I think we may be talking about different things, again difficult to explain but here goes:

    Locke and Alpert: Why does Locke (after the crash, before frozen donkey wheel) not recognize Alpert when Alpert brings him Sawyer’s file? PJ et al above suggest Locke just didn’t remember Alpert from his childhood, but I think it would have been a significant experience

    Des/Faraday: Des works for Dharma (well, Kelvin) pushing a button in a hatch. Some man knocks on the door, IDs himself as Faraday, tells Des info. Then, a few years later, 815 crashes, Locke finds Des, Des ends up meeting Faraday for the first time (I think when everything happened on the freighter). Why did Des (on the freighter/at Oxford the first time) not remember Faraday as that strange man that knocked on the hatch door when he was with Kelvin?

    Sorry so long, I just really want to figure this out! Thanks for any help![/quote]
    _________________________________
    kate, I have to agree with the majority on your first q. Locke was too young to remember Alpert.

    As far as Des and Dan… What scene were they in together (physically) last season?

  291. katesFriend says:

    sorry guys, i thought i was posting those last few posts on Hammer’s number theory page!

  292. duke says:

    [quote comment=”310659″][quote comment=”310656″]Does anyone remember when Lost first introduced Daniel. He was watching news footage of the discovery of Oceanic flight 815 plane wreckage. Could the lady in the bed be the one who asked him why he was crying? I do not remember if they showed her face or not.[/quote]

    see comment 281, i think the 3 of them (faraday, caretaker, theresa) lived together, and it was Theresa’s caretaker, not faraday’s[/quote]
    I did not take that women who questioned Daniel as to why he was crying as a caretaker but a girlfriend/wife etc…..

  293. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”310655″][quote comment=”310650″]

    Thanks Vavila, but I think we may be talking about different things, again difficult to explain but here goes:

    Locke and Alpert: Why does Locke (after the crash, before frozen donkey wheel) not recognize Alpert when Alpert brings him Sawyer’s file? PJ et al above suggest Locke just didn’t remember Alpert from his childhood, but I think it would have been a significant experience

    Des/Faraday: Des works for Dharma (well, Kelvin) pushing a button in a hatch. Some man knocks on the door, IDs himself as Faraday, tells Des info. Then, a few years later, 815 crashes, Locke finds Des, Des ends up meeting Faraday for the first time (I think when everything happened on the freighter). Why did Des (on the freighter/at Oxford the first time) not remember Faraday as that strange man that knocked on the hatch door when he was with Kelvin?

    Sorry so long, I just really want to figure this out! Thanks for any help![/quote]

    Ok, I dropped this theory, but I’m picking it up again now… When Daniel told Desmond to meet him in 1996, it was just a theory that Daniel had (I think I remember him saying “I hope this works”) so at that point the two had not crossed paths in 1996. at least not according to Desmond… Desmond also didn’t have the memory of meeting Mrs. Hawking in the jewlry store and her telling him he couldn’t save Charlie, until it was relevant.
    Why? ??? but remeber also that Daniel didn’t know that Des was his constant until he read it in his journal. Des never had a journal.

  294. sector7 says:

    Oh yeah. They only saw each other off island at Oxford. So, there is no moment, on-island when Des and Dan meet (except for this season!)

  295. KLost says:

    JHCxyz wrote:

    So, apologies if already said (I’m new to this discussion group.) So the moving of the island is how the Black Rock wound up so deep in the island jungle? Just as we saw the island seemingly sink out of sight when it vanished, it was “unsink” into sight when it reappears. So is it possible that the island just happened to re-appear right underneath where the Black Rock was sailing at that moment, thereby stranding it deep on the island?

    *********************
    So, if Richard and his crew did get on the island that way, were they the first? And since he wouldn’t have been born there why doesn’t he age? And if they were the first, how did they get the “other” women since they were most likely not on a ship??

  296. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310653″][quote comment=”310434″]
    The good news is that the on-island survivors aren’t jumping around in time for three years *from their perspective* while they wait for Desmond to have that dream/memory.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]
    ————————————————–

    PJ, would you elaborate on this, I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.

    The on-island are jumping all over time, while off island are fixed 3 yrs after the freighter explosion.

    If this is what you said I agree, but what do you mean by “wait”, and why is that good news?[/quote]

    * * * * * * * * * * *

    To the survivors, they have only spent a day or two “jumping around” since the helicopter left. In theory, three years that pass in “real” time between when Daniel saw Desmond in the hatch and Desmond “remembered” it.

    I think the time jumping will be the way the producers allow island time to “catch up” to real time. The survivors will jump a bit more (in Jughead, they jumped for the fifth time) and eventually, I think they will land in 2005 – hopefully in time for the O6 to arrive.

    From the survivor’s perspective, I don’t think three years of CIT will pass.

    This is, of course, pure conjecture. I just don’t see how the remaining islanders can jump around in time for three years while they wait for Daniel to “remember” and the O6 to coordinate for a rescue.

    : ) P

  297. katesFriend says:

    [quote]kate, I have to agree with the majority on your first q. Locke was too young to remember Alpert.

    As far as Des and Dan… What scene were they in together (physically) last season?[/quote]

    I guess when Des calls Faraday on the phone (or somehow Des is talking to Faraday b/c he gives him the instructions to go to Oxford) then 2005 Des Consciousness (who has been in the hatch) goes to 1996 Faraday in Oxford. The minute Des walked into Faraday’s office, why didn’t Des say, “omg you are the guy who knocked on the hatch”?

  298. SerbianChris says:

    Hey, just noticed old Widmore has an office painting of the island a polar bear and the word NAMASTE on it.
    Pretty cool.
    Probably stole it after wiping out the Dharma crew?

  299. flgrl says:

    I don’t seem to be able to catch up to the posts so pardon me if this has already been posted, but…
    When Richard comes to visit young John Locke, he leaves disgusted because John doesn’t pick the right things. Maybe this is because John really shouldn’t be chosen as their leader. Maybe he did it wrong and therefore is not the special one that he thinks he is.

    Also, I’m afraid that we may be getting too caught up in the specifics of time travel. I really think they are wanting us to just think of this is general terms instead of trying to comprehend quantum physics.

  300. Nikki Loves Lost says:

    [quote comment=”310377″][quote comment=”310296″]I’m new here but… I thought that maybe the girl who is in the bed is actually the red head Daniel is in love with and that he is trying to go back to try to save her. Maybe?[/quote]

    The girl in the bed is the same girl that’s in the cracked picture in Daniel Faraday’s office in Oxford. I believe she is the “poor girl” who the janitor mentioned when describing the atrocities of Faraday’s research, and the reasons the university would wish to cover up his tenure there.

    I think the girl on the bed (Teresa Spencer) might be related to the girl who takes Daniel to the H-bomb at gun point on the 1954 island. I recall he told her “you look sooooo much like somebody I used to know.”[/quote]

    Yes his mother.

  301. SerbianChris says:

    [quote comment=”310673″]
    I guess when Des calls Faraday on the phone (or somehow Des is talking to Faraday b/c he gives him the instructions to go to Oxford) then 2005 Des Consciousness (who has been in the hatch) goes to 1996 Faraday in Oxford. The minute Des walked into Faraday’s office, why didn’t Des say, “omg you are the guy who knocked on the hatch”?[/quote]
    —————————————————-
    Because Faraday knocked on the hatch in 2004
    When they met at oxford it was 1996, 8 years earlier.

  302. Melissa says:

    [quote comment=”310635″]In my opinion I’m pretty certain Hawking is Daniel’s Mother.
    I think that The young lady soldier, Ellie, is Ms Hawking, Daniel’s mom. from a timeline poitn of view it makes lots of sense, and daniel sees her as very familiar, of course this is her way before daniel was born so he wouldnt know exactly how she looked like but he’s super familiar. my money’s on the fact that

    Hawking = Ellie = Dan’s mom.

    However Eloise (sick lady) isnt, her and faraday were the same age in the pic, plus the sister knows faraday and so on.. too many reasons not to believe it.
    It might be charlotte tho, but i doubt that too.

    one thing we should mention is that the sister said that eloise had been talking to her dad, who’s been dead 5 years.
    That about the time the plane crashed. Is Eloise’s dad one of the losties? I’ll bet!
    Probably an older guy, but who.[/quote]

    The sick woman isn’t an Eloise – her name is Theresa. Ms. Hawking is Eloise and Ellie.

  303. Miraks says:

    [quote comment=”310673″][quote]kate, I have to agree with the majority on your first q. Locke was too young to remember Alpert.

    As far as Des and Dan… What scene were they in together (physically) last season?[/quote]

    I guess when Des calls Faraday on the phone (or somehow Des is talking to Faraday b/c he gives him the instructions to go to Oxford) then 2005 Des Consciousness (who has been in the hatch) goes to 1996 Faraday in Oxford. The minute Des walked into Faraday’s office, why didn’t Des say, “omg you are the guy who knocked on the hatch”?[/quote]
    ___________________

    Because that had not happened yet. Think of it as “photoshopping” new things into an old picture/ or memory as it may be the case here. You have Des in 1996- no idea the island even exists. Des in 2005- his mind travels into the past, to 1996 and meets Faraday. That experience has been photoshopped into his memories now, but was not there the day before. The same is true with this new meeting. When Faraday arrived on the island, the memory of him knocking on Des’s door had not been photoshopped into Desmond’s mind yet, because it did not occur yet.
    Hope this makes a little bit of sense.

  304. SerbianChris says:

    [quote comment=”310675″]
    When Richard comes to visit young John Locke, he leaves disgusted because John doesn’t pick the right things. Maybe this is because John really shouldn’t be chosen as their leader. Maybe he did it wrong and therefore is not the special one that he thinks he is.[/quote]
    ————————————————–
    I think he did it right, Richard’s reaction was an act, please check post 270 above to get my point of view on this.

  305. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310667″][quote comment=”310659″][quote comment=”310656″]Does anyone remember when Lost first introduced Daniel. He was watching news footage of the discovery of Oceanic flight 815 plane wreckage. Could the lady in the bed be the one who asked him why he was crying? I do not remember if they showed her face or not.[/quote]

    see comment 281, i think the 3 of them (faraday, caretaker, theresa) lived together, and it was Theresa’s caretaker, not faraday’s[/quote]
    I did not take that women who questioned Daniel as to why he was crying as a caretaker but a girlfriend/wife etc…..[/quote]
    ++++++++
    This makes sense. The woman Des met said that he just picked up and left her behind. I would bet that was when he was recruited by Abbadon and Naomi to head for the island. It may have been that she was having a ‘good’ day when we saw that scene.

  306. SerbianChris says:

    [quote comment=”310679″]
    The sick woman isn’t an Eloise – her name is Theresa. Ms. Hawking is Eloise and Ellie.[/quote]
    —————————————————-
    Yep, I know, I corrected myself back at post 279

  307. vavila says:

    [quote comment=”310655″][quote comment=”310650″]

    Des/Faraday: Des works for Dharma (well, Kelvin) pushing a button in a hatch. Some man knocks on the door, IDs himself as Faraday, tells Des info. Then, a few years later, 815 crashes, Locke finds Des, Des ends up meeting Faraday for the first time (I think when everything happened on the freighter). Why did Des (on the freighter/at Oxford the first time) not remember Faraday as that strange man that knocked on the hatch door when he was with Kelvin?

    [/quote]


    my thinking is that Des in 2004 did not remember Daniel because when they met in 2004, Daniel has not travelled back and banged on Des’s door when he was pushing the button yet (yes he was pushing it in 1998 i think but Daniel travelled to 1998 only in 2005, thus he could not have this memory in 2004 when they met).
    The whole thing with consciousness travel is different to begin with because Des was having side-effects and had to realign his 2004 and 1996 time and that’s why he needed a constant and he suceeded… Des who travelled in consiousness to 1996 and met Daniel, could not rememebr him in 1998 (during button pushing) because Des meets Daniel in his consiouness in 1996 travel only in 2004… he travelled in 2004 thus 1998 Des could not have this memory yet – the Oxford 1996 meeting did not happen until 2004 travel… more confusing? :)

  308. katesFriend says:

    [quote]Because that had not happened yet. Think of it as “photoshopping” new things into an old picture/ or memory as it may be the case here. You have Des in 1996- no idea the island even exists. Des in 2005- his mind travels into the past, to 1996 and meets Faraday. That experience has been photoshopped into his memories now, but was not there the day before. The same is true with this new meeting. When Faraday arrived on the island, the memory of him knocking on Des’s door had not been photoshopped into Desmond’s mind yet, because it did not occur yet.
    Hope this makes a little bit of sense.[/quote]

    Miraks, this is the most sense anyone has made to me yet, thank you! I guess I am just confused about time travel, b/c it seems that if you jump to a period in the past, any interaction should affect the future

  309. Jaime says:

    [quote comment=”310381″]So if Soldier Girl is Daniel’s mom, she probably at some point becomes pregnant (by Widmore? lol) and Juliette will probably tell her, if you don’t get off the island you will die so she leaves to give birth to Daniel.

    Since Widmore knows Daniel is her son, and he has an interest in this stuff he begins funding Daniel’s studies because he believes in Daniel.[/quote]
    ***************************
    I like this RGS

    [quote comment=”310383″][quote comment=”310363″]Why did Widmore’s fatigues say “Jones” on it, not Widmore?
    [/quote]

    Because when Alpert “had” to kill all the US Army folks, they took their clothes and used them. Why else would all those “US Army” folks have questionable accents!?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ***************************************************
    Great call[quote comment=”310385″][quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]

    duuuuuude that would make so much sense[/quote]
    *************************************************

    Yes, yes, yes….love this[quote comment=”310395″][quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]

    [/quote]
    **************************************************
    Maybe this has something to do with her origin[quote comment=”310421″][quote comment=”310420″]My tivo missed taping the last conversation between John Locke and Richard Alpert Locke begins to say on a date in the future (he gives actual date) … it cuts off can anyone help me fill in what he said?[/quote]

    he says that on this date he is born and gives him the location where he is born and tells richard to come visit him. this completes the circle of the flashback last season where richard comes to visit locke as a boy to see if he is special or not.[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    1954 meeting with Locke was brilliant….explains so much. We thought Alpert has been monitoring Locke since birth, so not the case.[quote comment=”310436″][quote comment=”310403″]Girl with gun on island is Daniel’s mom, and he was fathered by the young Charles Widmore (maybe on the island, maybe off.) Daniel and Penny are either brother/sister, or half-brother/sister. Widmore funds his son Daniels research, then picks up the cost of the girlfriend that he whacked out doing his testing. He has seen Charlotte’s symptoms before — in the girl in the bed.[/quote]

    I agree completely.

    Perhaps when Ellie gets pregnant and must leave the island, Widmore is forced to go with her. Could explain why he and Ellie are no longer together — because he resents having had to leave the island. But he has a soft spot for her, the mother of his son, so he continues to keep tabs on her.[/quote]
    ***************************************

    How did he get to the island? Why did he leave? not by choice i think. Maybe he had a falling out with Alpert. For as much as he knows about the island i find it funny that he has no idea how important Des may be[quote comment=”310445″]A painting in Widmores office said Namaste! The same thing the Dharma intiative sign said.[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    It also had a polar bear on it….anyone has a screen cap for both the paintings?

    Also what if the the whispers are the time jumping Losties talking to themselves. The current losties interfering with past losties

    Wow, that’s a lot to digest

  310. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310681″]Because that had not happened yet. Think of it as “photoshopping” new things into an old picture/ or memory as it may be the case here. [/quote]

    Excellent analogy! I was formulating an encyclopedia theory, but yours is much easier to understand.

    : ) P

  311. Erin says:

    [quote comment=”310385″][quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]

    duuuuuude that would make so much sense[/quote]

    Except that Juliet was being sarcastic when she said it. I don’t think we were meant to take it literally!

  312. wallyp says:

    I think Daniels appearance was different in 1996 also… he had long hair or a beard or a fuller beard or something… not sure exactly… but he was also not as spacey either…

  313. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310690″][quote comment=”310385″][quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]

    duuuuuude that would make so much sense[/quote]

    Except that Juliet was being sarcastic when she said it. I don’t think we were meant to take it literally![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Sarcastic when said what?

  314. Erin says:

    [quote comment=”310674″]Hey, just noticed old Widmore has an office painting of the island a polar bear and the word NAMASTE on it.
    Pretty cool.
    Probably stole it after wiping out the Dharma crew?[/quote]

    The DHARMA crew were wiped out about 12 years ago, weren’t they? I’m sure Widmore was off the island long before that. Penny has never mentioned that her father was absent… Also, Widmore has created quite an empire. I think it would have taken years and years to establish that kind of money and power.

    We saw him at an auction purchasing a painting of the Black Rock. He has the money to search out things related to the island to add to his collection.

  315. katesFriend says:

    got it vavila! thanks! here is a thought experiment, that I hope will explain where I get stuck:

    Say there is person X in 1990, 2000, and 2010.

    2000X has a special diamond ring (just as an example) that she loves very much that she acquired in 1990

    Then, 2010X goes back to 1990X and makes sure 1990X never acquires the special diamond ring

    Then, how is that 2000X could have ever loved that special ring? 2010X has the memories of loving the ring, goes back and makes sure the ring never becomes a memory. Now, suddenly does 2000X not have the memory of the ring? If so, how would 2010X even know there was a ring that she could prevent 1990X’s acquisition of?

    Confused? me too. sorry, I’m just trying to figure it out!

  316. Erin says:

    [quote comment=”310693″][quote comment=”310690″][quote comment=”310385″][quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]

    duuuuuude that would make so much sense[/quote]

    Except that Juliet was being sarcastic when she said it. I don’t think we were meant to take it literally![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Sarcastic when said what?[/quote]

    Sawyer asked why they were breaking rocks and she said to clear a space for a runway!

  317. vavila says:

    [quote comment=”310660″]Still need these questions answered
    -Can Alpert really time travel? From what we are finding out, it seems that he never did time travel. Not only that, he didn’t even know it was possible until Locke told him. He went to see baby Locke because he was told to AHEAD of time to do so.
    -Why do people believe that the Others/ Hostiles don’t age? I can’t think of anyone besides Alpert that does not age. We didn’t see Ethan or Tom or any of the other Others we know at the camp last night. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that they DO age, BUT Alpert is the exception?
    -Could Widmore been have behind Locke’s mom getting run over the day he was born?
    -Could he also have been behind Juliette’s ex getting run over by the bus (maybe she was the real target)?

    Also, last week I remember several posters saying that you could only travel back to a time when you had been alive. This is obviously not the case, since none of our guys were alive in the time they went back to last night.[/quote]

    I agree with you that Alpert cannot time travel and i also think that he is the only one who does not age – special
    I think that everyone who matters on the flight was set up to be on it – i don’t know whether it was done by Widmore (how could he?!) or Ben (then why play the ‘losties’ vs. ‘others’ games) or future Lock or who knows who but i do think that it was a set up…
    With regards to time travel, i think we see different ones. In the consiousness involuntary travel Des had (which was a side effect) he obeviously could travel only to the time when he was alive and he kept on switching between only two timelines 2004 and 1996. The time travel losties expereince now is completely different, definately not consiousness travel, plus done in a group – smth different…

  318. bekzod says:

    So since the bomb is not properly sealed and apparently allows some level of radiation to escape, could this explain why pregnant women are unable to come to full term?
    Has there been radioactive “seepage” that effects the reproductive system of women?

  319. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment=”310667″][quote comment=”310659″][quote comment=”310656″]Does anyone remember when Lost first introduced Daniel. He was watching news footage of the discovery of Oceanic flight 815 plane wreckage. Could the lady in the bed be the one who asked him why he was crying? I do not remember if they showed her face or not.[/quote]

    see comment 281, i think the 3 of them (faraday, caretaker, theresa) lived together, and it was Theresa’s caretaker, not faraday’s[/quote]
    I did not take that women who questioned Daniel as to why he was crying as a caretaker but a girlfriend/wife etc…..[/quote]

    ************************************************

    When the episode where Daniel was seen crying in a chair while watching a news story of flight 815 was rebroadcast as a “pop-up” episode the following week it was revealed that the woman with Daniel was a caretaker and until now many of us have assumed it was Daniel’s caretaker.

  320. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment=”310667″][quote comment=”310659″][quote comment=”310656″]Does anyone remember when Lost first introduced Daniel. He was watching news footage of the discovery of Oceanic flight 815 plane wreckage. Could the lady in the bed be the one who asked him why he was crying? I do not remember if they showed her face or not.[/quote]

    see comment 281, i think the 3 of them (faraday, caretaker, theresa) lived together, and it was Theresa’s caretaker, not faraday’s[/quote]
    I did not take that women who questioned Daniel as to why he was crying as a caretaker but a girlfriend/wife etc…..[/quote]

    ************************************************

    When the episode where Daniel was seen crying in a chair while watching a news story of flight 815 was rebroadcast as a “pop-up” episode it was revealed that the woman with Daniel was a caretaker and until now many of us have assumed it was Daniel’s caretaker.

  321. PJSander says:

    Okay, this blog doesn’t usually allow more than two url links in one post, so I am going to post them separately, to be sure they come through.

    Here is a screencap of the photo that Desmond found at Daniel’s old office in Oxford. The woman in the photo with Daniel is Theresa.

    http://tinyurl.com/danielphoto

    : ) P

  322. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310696″][quote comment=”310693″][quote comment=”310690″][quote comment=”310385″][quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?[/quote]

    duuuuuude that would make so much sense[/quote]

    Except that Juliet was being sarcastic when she said it. I don’t think we were meant to take it literally![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Sarcastic when said what?[/quote]

    Sawyer asked why they were breaking rocks and she said to clear a space for a runway![/quote]
    +++++++++
    Oh right, but that’s not what I said. I said for the O6 to land. Juliet didn’t know why they were building it.

    From lostpedia:
    SAWYER: So, when you pulled us out of those polar bear cages and put us on the chain gang, what the hell you have us breaking all those rocks for anyway?
    JULIET: We were building a runway.
    SAWYER: Runway, for what?
    JULIET: [Turns to him] The aliens.
    [She smirks]
    JULIET: I don’t know what for, do you think they told me everything?

  323. PJSander says:

    Here is Theresa in bed:

    http://tinyurl.com/theresabed

    : ) P

  324. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”310696″][quote comment=”310693″][quote comment=”310690″][quote comment=”310385″][quote comment=”310380″]Bedtime for Bonzo. He’s my ponderous thought for you:

    The runway that the Others were building last year……could it be for the O6 to have a safe place to land?

    duuuuuude that would make so much sense

    Except that Juliet was being sarcastic when she said it. I don’t think we were meant to take it literally!
    +++++++++++++
    Sarcastic when said what?
    +++++++++++++
    Sawyer asked why they were breaking rocks and she said to clear a space for a runway![/quote]

    If memory serves, Juliet was being sarcastic about the alien part, not necessarily the runway part.

    From Lostpedia transcript:

    JULIET: We were building a runway.
    SAWYER: Runway, for what?
    JULIET: [Turns to him] The aliens.
    [She smirks]
    JULIET: I don’t know what for, do you think they told me everything?

  325. Miraks says:

    [quote comment=”310687″][quote]Because that had not happened yet. Think of it as “photoshopping” new things into an old picture/ or memory as it may be the case here. You have Des in 1996- no idea the island even exists. Des in 2005- his mind travels into the past, to 1996 and meets Faraday. That experience has been photoshopped into his memories now, but was not there the day before. The same is true with this new meeting. When Faraday arrived on the island, the memory of him knocking on Des’s door had not been photoshopped into Desmond’s mind yet, because it did not occur yet.
    Hope this makes a little bit of sense.[/quote]

    Miraks, this is the most sense anyone has made to me yet, thank you! I guess I am just confused about time travel, b/c it seems that if you jump to a period in the past, any interaction should affect the future[/quote]
    _____________________
    I think that is also why Daniel keeps checking his journal. Once a new memorie is “photoshopped”, it appears in his old notes. That is why he checks his journal and says “I hope this works” before knocking on Desmonds door. The idea is that there is nothing about that encounter in his notes yet, but will appear in his notes after the encounter.

  326. PJSander says:

    Here is the painting of the polar bear from Widmore’s office:

    http://tinyurl.com/widmorepainting

    : ) P

  327. Hurley's Dad says:

    should’ve known Hammer would beat me to it :)

  328. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310707″]should’ve known Hammer would beat me to it :)[/quote]
    LOL. ;)

  329. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310706″]Here is the painting of the polar bear from Widmore’s office:

    http://tinyurl.com/widmorepainting

    : ) P[/quote]
    We’ve seen it before….’Flashes Before Your Eyes’….lospedia under ‘paintings’.

  330. vavila says:

    KatesFriend,
    I think that this scenario cannot happen because you cannot change the past and especially fate… so if you had a ring in 2010 then you have to have it and you cannot undo the past otherwise you cannot love your ring in 2010 if you did not get it in 1990. But if you get your ring in 1990 and in 2010 someone travels into your past and tells the 1990 you to never leave thins ring anattended, then you will get this memory only in 2010 and since 2010 you won’t be leaving your ring unattended… so you can not change the past but you can travelt o the past and give tips ont he future, whcih is yet to come (2005 Lock telling 1950s Alpert to visit him when he’s born in 2 years)

  331. SerbianChris says:

    Has anyone watched the movie “Philadelphia Experiment”?
    I’ve had this movie in mind ever since Lost started.
    It’s a similar theme, I recommend it, could give some hints on what’s happening. I’m sure the writers were influenced by it. Based on a true story too.

  332. Bobola says:

    I thought the old lady in the bed looked like an elderly Charlotte.

    Seems Widmore has been a crazy violent thug for a long time; nice touch having him as a maniac Other.

    I liked this episode the best so far this season and especially because it had no Hurley.

    Why was Des so far from professional help with a preggers Penny…Why the hell did Desmond even need that dirty “Doctor”? All he did was say; “Push”
    Does he get paid for that?
    Weird that Des would panic and run off to some Gambling Den for help… WTF?

    Jughead was a character in Archie Comics.
    It would line up with the sort of naming WWII soldiers put on planes and such.
    Archie Comics started out in 1939. Time fits.

  333. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”310715″]
    Jughead was a character in Archie Comics.
    It would line up with the sort of naming WWII soldiers put on planes and such.
    Archie Comics started out in 1939. Time fits.[/quote]

    Jughead was the name of the bomb. It said so on the side.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb

    There were also 5 examples of the EC16 “Jughead” cryogenic bomb, a direct development of the “Mike” device produced, starting in January 1954

  334. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310705″][quote comment=”310687″][quote]Because that had not happened yet. Think of it as “photoshopping” new things into an old picture/ or memory as it may be the case here. You have Des in 1996- no idea the island even exists. Des in 2005- his mind travels into the past, to 1996 and meets Faraday. That experience has been photoshopped into his memories now, but was not there the day before. The same is true with this new meeting. When Faraday arrived on the island, the memory of him knocking on Des’s door had not been photoshopped into Desmond’s mind yet, because it did not occur yet.
    Hope this makes a little bit of sense.[/quote]

    Miraks, this is the most sense anyone has made to me yet, thank you! I guess I am just confused about time travel, b/c it seems that if you jump to a period in the past, any interaction should affect the future[/quote]
    _____________________
    I think that is also why Daniel keeps checking his journal. Once a new memorie is “photoshopped”, it appears in his old notes. That is why he checks his journal and says “I hope this works” before knocking on Desmonds door. The idea is that there is nothing about that encounter in his notes yet, but will appear in his notes after the encounter.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Yes, this has long been my theory as well. I’ve tried to explain it before, but no one ever understood me because I didn’t explain it as well as you did. Good job!

  335. RGS says:

    Welp, here’s my foray into the time travel explanations. I was going to wait to build up a lil more confidence based upon how they are dropping these paradoxes on us like it’s trick or treat candy…they just can’t all be potential plot holes. So I did my rudimentary investigation (wikipedia…that’s just a nice Internet novelty…someday it will be quote in a court of law…kangaroo court but I digress…).

    So anyway last season during the Constant there were a flurry of discussions on the net talking about “The Slaughterhouse Five” which is a book I’ve never read but wiki’d. A basic theme or notion appears to be that everything has already happened, and has done so in this 4th dimension, Time. We currently only know to experience Time at a one second pace. Similar to how we can only travel distances at a per meter(for you Euro’s) pace. That is a whole other discussion, and I’m sure somebody on this site got sexually aroused at the fact that a mere mortal such as myself is actually trying to grasp this 4th dimension.

    All that being said, these “paradoxes” we as viewers are seeing, are actually events that have already taken place. The character(s) simply remember them randomly because the memory becomes unstuck in time at the “time” they experience it. So that is one way they can get around the paradox argument…because there is no way to determine what happens first in this fourth dimension.

    I kinda think it’s hard to remember stuff that isn’t traumatic especially the minutiae. Whether something is traumatic or a big deal is in the eyes of the beholder. They could have been setting us up with this with all of those chance encounters the characters had with each other, but do not remember.

    SRTAFK.

  336. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310702″][quote comment=”310696″][quote comment=”310693″][quote comment=”310690″][quote comment=”310385″][quote comment=”310380″] [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    From lostpedia:
    SAWYER: So, when you pulled us out of those polar bear cages and put us on the chain gang, what the hell you have us breaking all those rocks for anyway?
    JULIET: We were building a runway.
    SAWYER: Runway, for what?
    JULIET: [Turns to him] The aliens.
    [She smirks]
    JULIET: I don’t know what for, do you think they told me everything?[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    This is evidence that the Others do what Jacob tells them to do, and do it blindly. They just obey. They do not know WHY they are building a runway – even though it seems to make absolutely no sense at the time – but they are doing what Jacob – through whatever leader – tells them to do. NOW it seems to make sense that the returning O6 might need a runway – Jacob would have already known that (presumably).

  337. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”310695″]got it vavila! thanks! here is a thought experiment, that I hope will explain where I get stuck:

    Say there is person X in 1990, 2000, and 2010.

    2000X has a special diamond ring (just as an example) that she loves very much that she acquired in 1990

    Then, 2010X goes back to 1990X and makes sure 1990X never acquires the special diamond ring

    Then, how is that 2000X could have ever loved that special ring? 2010X has the memories of loving the ring, goes back and makes sure the ring never becomes a memory. Now, suddenly does 2000X not have the memory of the ring? If so, how would 2010X even know there was a ring that she could prevent 1990X’s acquisition of?

    Confused? me too. sorry, I’m just trying to figure it out![/quote]

    Why would 2010X want to stop herself from getting the ring if she loved it so much? -JK-

    But this ain’t Back TO THe Future… theres no room for plotholes! I think what is being presented here is that 2000x really can’t stop 1990x from doing anything… but they can drop a message, that will later be recieved by 2010x to think differently about the ring. It’s like as if 2000x is calling 2010x long distance, from 1990.

    that was fun!

  338. Rita says:

    [/quote]
    ___________________________________
    This is evidence that the Others do what Jacob tells them to do, and do it blindly. They just obey. They do not know WHY they are building a runway – even though it seems to make absolutely no sense at the time – but they are doing what Jacob – through whatever leader – tells them to do. NOW it seems to make sense that the returning O6 might need a runway – Jacob would have already known that (presumably).[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Just trying to say they take their leaders VERY seriously. For example, Locke telling Alpert that he is their leader and references Jacob is a VERY BIG DEAL to Alpert, to be taken very seriously.

  339. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”310720″][quote comment=”310695″]got it vavila! thanks! here is a thought experiment, that I hope will explain where I get stuck:

    Say there is person X in 1990, 2000, and 2010.

    2000X has a special diamond ring (just as an example) that she loves very much that she acquired in 1990

    Then, 2010X goes back to 1990X and makes sure 1990X never acquires the special diamond ring

    Then, how is that 2000X could have ever loved that special ring? 2010X has the memories of loving the ring, goes back and makes sure the ring never becomes a memory. Now, suddenly does 2000X not have the memory of the ring? If so, how would 2010X even know there was a ring that she could prevent 1990X’s acquisition of?

    Confused? me too. sorry, I’m just trying to figure it out![/quote]

    Why would 2010X want to stop herself from getting the ring if she loved it so much? -JK-

    But this ain’t Back TO THe Future… theres no room for plotholes!

    I think what is being presented here is that 2000x really can’t stop 1990x from doing anything… but they can drop a message, that will later be recieved by 2010x to think differently about the ring. It’s like as if 2000x is calling 2010x long distance, from 1990.

    that was fun![/quote]

    Maybe we’re “just not thinking 4th dimensionally.” ( :

  340. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310719″]___________________________________
    This is evidence that the Others do what Jacob tells them to do, and do it blindly. They just obey. They do not know WHY they are building a runway – even though it seems to make absolutely no sense at the time – but they are doing what Jacob – through whatever leader – tells them to do. NOW it seems to make sense that the returning O6 might need a runway – Jacob would have already known that (presumably).[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Yes, especially if you agree with RGS above.

  341. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”310673″][quote]kate, I have to agree with the majority on your first q. Locke was too young to remember Alpert.

    As far as Des and Dan… What scene were they in together (physically) last season?[/quote]

    I guess when Des calls Faraday on the phone (or somehow Des is talking to Faraday b/c he gives him the instructions to go to Oxford) then 2005 Des Consciousness (who has been in the hatch) goes to 1996 Faraday in Oxford. The minute Des walked into Faraday’s office, why didn’t Des say, “omg you are the guy who knocked on the hatch”?[/quote]

    __________________________________________

    I’m going to say it’s because it had not happened in that timeline. Sorry Dan believers, but multiple timelines have to exist in theoretical time travel. Think the past cannot be changed. What if you time traveled to the past with a nuclear device and set it off as soon as you arrived? Change, my friends… and on a seperate timeline from the one where you came from.

  342. Mia says:

    I’m a LOST fanatic but this is my FIRST post….

    Here are my thoughts:

    1. I think Ellie is Mrs. Hawkings and is possibly Penny’s mother, not Faraday’s. Being Faraday’s mother is just too palpable. I don’t think he would name a mouse after his mother either. And I don’t think Widmore would send Des to Mrs. Hawkings since she is with Ben and Ben said he would kill Penny.
    2. Widmore knew Des was going to come see him and wants him to go find Faraday’s mother. This makes Des not want to follow through because he obviously doesn’t trust him.
    3. I believe Faraday is trying to “make things right” to help Charlotte AND Theresa (the sick girl Des visited) get back to normal. He was probably not romantically involved with Theresa either but cares for her. I think Widmore is paying for her care not because she is related or that he is concerned for her but she must be useful to him somehow. Could be one reason why Faraday continues to “work” for Widmore.
    4. The reason why Faraday is so assertive towards the Others is that he knows he can’t be killed – that would change his original course and he knows the future cannot be rewritten.

    Mia

  343. WillbeLost says:

    in the episode “confirmed dead” faraday is watching the news about the discovery of Oceanic plane, why does he look worry or disturbed and is that the time he left England and fled to the states? please explain

  344. shellonius funk says:

    i was just thinking about the runway too….juliet knows WAY more than she lets on; i love how she cuts locke off as he’s about to say it was ethan who shot him.

    regarding the whole compass thing…i’m most curious about why it was the KNIFE that pissed of richard.

    i LOVE ethan shooting locke. it calls back to season 1 when locke and boone found the plane. locke had to climb the tree to the plane because his leg(s) stopped working….because ethan shot him?!

    and the very next episdode, a Teresa is mentioned….calling back to the same boone/locke ep: teresa falls up the stairs, teresa falls down the stairs?
    that’s the first thing i thought of.

    i think hawking may be his mum, but had they NOT shown her in that episode, i don’t even think she’d come to mind. the fact that everyone thinks she IS makes me expect a curveball in the future.

    i think widmore turned the donkey wheel in the past and that’s why he can’t go back. well…i assume he can’t go back.
    he reminds me of biff in back to the future 2….capitalizing on dan…funding his research because he knows he’s right/it works.
    why did it take him ten years to find the island “last time”, and how long ago was that?

    i think that richard is daniel’s son.
    neither seem to age.

    ps…BACON is my CONSTANT!

    http://shop.cafepress.com/design/32609709

  345. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310725″]I think Widmore is paying for her care not because she is related or that he is concerned for her but she must be useful to him somehow. Could be one reason why Faraday continues to “work” for Widmore.[/quote]

    Good thought! Daniel HAS to work for Widmore to pay off the debt of caring for Theresa. I will have to ponder that one some more.

    [quote comment=”310725″]The reason why Faraday is so assertive towards the Others is that he knows he can’t be killed – that would change his original course and he knows the future cannot be rewritten.[/quote]

    And this may well be why Michael and Jack couldn’t kill themselves. Michael had to be Ben’s spy on the boat and Jack had to get back to the island. They were futures that, at the time, we had yet to see.

    Hmmm.

    : ) P

  346. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”310724″][quote comment=”310673″][quote]kate, I have to agree with the majority on your first q. Locke was too young to remember Alpert.

    As far as Des and Dan… What scene were they in together (physically) last season?[/quote]

    I guess when Des calls Faraday on the phone (or somehow Des is talking to Faraday b/c he gives him the instructions to go to Oxford) then 2005 Des Consciousness (who has been in the hatch) goes to 1996 Faraday in Oxford. The minute Des walked into Faraday’s office, why didn’t Des say, “omg you are the guy who knocked on the hatch”?[/quote]

    __________________________________________

    I’m going to say it’s because it had not happened in that timeline. Sorry Dan believers, but multiple timelines have to exist in theoretical time travel. Think the past cannot be changed. What if you time traveled to the past with a nuclear device and set it off as soon as you arrived? Change, my friends… and on a seperate timeline from the one where you came from.[/quote]

    The device would never go off. Sort of like all of those guns that could never fire. If anything you would set off a nuclear device in the past, and then it wouldn’t have any effect until a point in time where it wouldn’t alter the time line. But in order to even do THAT it would have to be special.

  347. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310726″]in the episode “confirmed dead” faraday is watching the news about the discovery of Oceanic plane, why does he look worry or disturbed and is that the time he left England and fled to the states? please explain[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    according to LOSTpedia, Daniel was seen looking worried, and in the presence of the “caregiver”, 8 years after the “accident” with Theresa Spencer. He is (according to LP) living in America, in Essex, Mass. Therefore, if this is to be believed, the caregiver is HIS (or someone else we haven’t seen yet) because Theresa Spencer is still in England. check it out at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Daniel_Faraday
    (doesn’t clear anything up, but it is interesting!)

  348. Amber says:

    I like the idea of Richard being like the”protector” of the island. and who knows maybe he does have four toes. I also agree with him being as old as the island and thats why he doesnt age, because everyone else does. I do think that everyone was set up to be on 815. It seems like almost everyone on 815 had someone previously on or had something to do with the islad
    Widmore- Penny and desmond
    Christian- Clair and jake
    Dr.Candle- Miles
    Mr. Hawkins/Elli- Daniel
    I dont know just a thought

  349. LostinSev says:

    Theresa in the bed in a coma reminds me of when Michael was in the hospital (after the car crash suicide attempt) and the older man in the bed next to him. On the blog, people were thinking he was Mr. Hanso.

    At this point, I wouldn’t surprised this is all in Hurley’s mind. This is someone’s dream state while in a coma.

    This is a Dharma experiment and everyone is in a building somewhere with the virtual reality masks on. Like what they did to Alex’s boyfriend (forgot name). Someone is juicing them up with the white stuff in the syringes.

    I hope it’s not, I think that would suck!!

  350. shellonius funk says:

    one more thing….what makes desmond, as dan said after knocking on the hatch, uniquely special?
    as in…special in some way that no one else is?

    thoughts?

  351. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310735″]I like the idea of Richard being like the”protector” of the island. and who knows maybe he does have four toes. I also agree with him being as old as the island and thats why he doesnt age, because everyone else does. I do think that everyone was set up to be on 815. It seems like almost everyone on 815 had someone previously on or had something to do with the islad
    Widmore- Penny and desmond
    Christian- Clair and jake
    Dr.Candle- Miles
    Mr. Hawkins/Elli- Daniel
    I dont know just a thought[/quote]
    ________________________________
    I agreed with you up until you named the 815ers with island connections. The only ones you named who were ON 815 are Claire and Jack. The rest definitely have island connections, but were NOT of flight 815. Nevertheless, I agree that at this point, it sure looks like they were on the plane “for a reason”.

  352. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310738″]one more thing….what makes desmond, as dan said after knocking on the hatch, uniquely special?
    as in…special in some way that no one else is?

    thoughts?[/quote]
    Well, maybe …. because he was ground zero at the fail-safe explosion, and became therefore “unstuck” in time? Maybe that had permanent unsticking qualities to it?

  353. Hurley's Dad says:

    What about this.

    Confirmed Dead: Faraday sees the 815 wreckage, he is living with Theresa in the U.K.

    Does whatever he does to her (time-traveling experiment?) and makes her a vegetable, then takes off to the island.

    The woman in Comfirmed Dead with Daniel has a British accent and is wearing a wedding ring.

    I know Lostpedia is saying it was 8 years after the Theresa accident, but….why? What have we heard/seen to show that?

  354. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310739″][quote comment=”310735″]I like the idea of Richard being like the”protector” of the island. and who knows maybe he does have four toes. [/quote]
    ______________________________________
    OK, this has been said before but I liked it so much it deserves to be said again (Kudos to whomever put it out there last week!): It is unlikely that D&C spent so long on the shot of Sawyer’s poor impaled toe (running in the jungle) for no reason. Therefore, I, along with whoever said it first, think that it will turn out to be SAWYER loosing a toe, who will be the model for the 4 toed statue. Ha! That would be hilarious and perfect!

  355. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310742″]What about this.

    Confirmed Dead: Faraday sees the 815 wreckage, he is living with Theresa in the U.K.

    Does whatever he does to her (time-traveling experiment?) and makes her a vegetable, then takes off to the island.

    The woman in Comfirmed Dead with Daniel has a British accent and is wearing a wedding ring.

    I know Lostpedia is saying it was 8 years after the Theresa accident, but….why? What have we heard/seen to show that?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I don’t know why the 8 years, or why they think he is living in America at the time. It makes more sense to think he is living in England with Theresa and the caregivers, and then leaves from there to “go to America” (cover story) – really off on the freighter to go to the island to look for answers to help poor Theresa.

  356. Amber says:

    Wow I got everyone all mixed up didnt i Rita woops lol. i didnt even think about when sawyer hurt his toe!

  357. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310745″]Wow I got everyone all mixed up didnt i Rita woops lol. i didnt even think about when sawyer hurt his toe![/quote]
    _____________________________
    No problem! That’s why we’re all here, to help each other sort this all out!

  358. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment=”310725″]The reason why Faraday is so assertive towards the Others is that he knows he can’t be killed – that would change his original course and he knows the future cannot be rewritten.[/quote]

    And this may well be why Michael and Jack couldn’t kill themselves. Michael had to be Ben’s spy on the boat and Jack had to get back to the island. They were futures that, at the time, we had yet to see.

    Hmmm.

    : ) P[/quote]

    this is also why sawyer could have shot at widmore when he was running away 30 itmes and would have never hit him because you CANNOT change the future. he couldnt have just killed widmore there and be done with it.

  359. Hurley's Dad says:

    For those that like the idea of the H-Bomb being behind the concrete in the Swan.

    In “Further Instructions”
    CHARLIE: What happened?
    LOCKE: Looks like it imploded.

    Radiation Implosion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_implosion

    The term radiation implosion describes the process behind a class of devices which use high levels of electromagnetic radiation to compress a target. The major use for this technology is in fusion bombs and inertial confinement fusion research.

  360. Serafina says:

    [quote comment=”310735″]I like the idea of Richard being like the”protector” of the island. and who knows maybe he does have four toes. I also agree with him being as old as the island and thats why he doesnt age, because everyone else does. I do think that everyone was set up to be on 815. It seems like almost everyone on 815 had someone previously on or had something to do with the islad
    Widmore- Penny and desmond
    Christian- Clair and jake
    Dr.Candle- Miles
    Mr. Hawkins/Elli- Daniel
    I dont know just a thought[/quote]

    Interesting.

    I believe that young Widmore fell in love with the gun-toting girl with the British accent from last night and that together, they had both Penny and Daniel Farday. This would explain why Widmore wants to keep Penny away from Desmond and the Island, and why he is funding Daniel Faraday’s research.

    I believe that Elli is Faraday’s mother and the parallel between the Elouise mouse (whose consciousness is sent back in time) and Elli his mom (whose laying in bed, sharing memories as a 3 yr old) give us yet another reason why Daniel is working so hard on his project. We cannot know the extent to which Widmore and Elli are in contact, but Widmore is funding Faraday’s research for multiple reasons (possibly to help Elli’s consciousness find the present, to prevent Penny from going to the island, to get back to the Island himself).

    Also thoughts on this?: The fact that Widmore is funding Farady who has asked Desmond to find help him at various points off of the island underscores two things in my mind: Widmore does not like that the rules do not apply to Des, and Widmore thinks Des is key to his being able to return to the island.

  361. shellonius funk says:

    bomb in the swan….thanks for the radiation link, Hurley’s Dad.
    now we know where Kelvin got his name….

  362. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”310753″]bomb in the swan….thanks for the radiation link, Hurley’s Dad.
    now we know where Kelvin got his name….[/quote]
    Wanted to make sure about spoiler talk before talking, but can we talk about D&C podcast information?

  363. shellonius funk says:

    i’m not sure, so i’d say no. unless it confirms something…i dunno.
    but i’m shelley_raymond at hotmail!

  364. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”310755″]i’m not sure, so i’d say no. unless it confirms something…i dunno.
    but i’m shelley_raymond at hotmail![/quote] :) Well, it doesn’t confirm anything. So I’ll just mention there is a new D&C vidcast out today for those that are interested.

  365. PJSander says:

    It was generally decided at some point that D&C podcasts can be considered cannon and are acceptable to discuss. FWIW.

    : ) P

  366. Courtney says:

    I suspect that Alpert’s apparent unaging has to do with the healing effects of the island. The reason we age is that our cells copy and replace themselves, and as our bodies make copies of the copies, the copies deteriorate. Perhaps the healing properties of the island stop or slow the deterioration of the cell replication? The healing effects don’t affect everyone, so this could be why not everyone appears to not age.

    I would also suspect that either Alpert came to the island at the age he appears (40ish), or he’s uber old, since it would take an extremely long time for cell replication to age him to the age he appears (if my theory is correct).

    And as far as pregnant women not carrying to full term, I was thinking it might be possible that the mother is in CIT, but when the fetus is conceived it’s in another time, and that time difference complicates the pregnancy. A little far-fetched? Yeah, but I thought I’d throw it out there anyway.

    All I know is that they can keep putting Alpert in episodes, because I can look at Nestor Carbonell all day long. :D

  367. Dennis says:

    [quote comment=”310751″][quote comment=”310735″]I like the idea of Richard being like the”protector” of the island. and who knows maybe he does have four toes. I also agree with him being as old as the island and thats why he doesnt age, because everyone else does. I do think that everyone was set up to be on 815. It seems like almost everyone on 815 had someone previously on or had something to do with the islad
    Widmore- Penny and desmond
    Christian- Clair and jake
    Dr.Candle- Miles
    Mr. Hawkins/Elli- Daniel
    I dont know just a thought[/quote]

    Interesting.

    I believe that young Widmore fell in love with the gun-toting girl with the British accent from last night and that together, they had both Penny and Daniel Farday. This would explain why Widmore wants to keep Penny away from Desmond and the Island, and why he is funding Daniel Faraday’s research.

    I believe that Elli is Faraday’s mother and the parallel between the Elouise mouse (whose consciousness is sent back in time) and Elli his mom (whose laying in bed, sharing memories as a 3 yr old) give us yet another reason why Daniel is working so hard on his project. We cannot know the extent to which Widmore and Elli are in contact, but Widmore is funding Faraday’s research for multiple reasons (possibly to help Elli’s consciousness find the present, to prevent Penny from going to the island, to get back to the Island himself).

    Also thoughts on this?: The fact that Widmore is funding Farady who has asked Desmond to find help him at various points off of the island underscores two things in my mind: Widmore does not like that the rules do not apply to Des, and Widmore thinks Des is key to his being able to return to the island.[/quote]
    ——————–

    Widmore wants to keep Penny away from the island situation because ben told him that he was going to kill Penny, since widmore “broke the rules” and killed ben’s daughter, alex. Desmond is Penny’s only real connection to ben now, and it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out when he reaches LA.

    And I’m almost completely sure that the H-bomb is the device Faraday defuses in the Tempest station when he first arrived on the island. Although the bomb going off could create an implosion, as someone else had said, the hydrogen bomb going off underground would not create a purple sky, and the resulting explosion and radiation would probably have a more devastating physical effect on the island. The bomb being in the swan would not explain the electromagnetically charged plate wall, or why a “fail-safe” would detonate a hydrogen bomb…

  368. Dennis says:

    Not to mention that the swan station is next to the beach, and the bomb was located in a valley plain, surrounded by mountains.

  369. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310765″]Not to mention that the swan station is next to the beach, and the bomb was located in a valley plain, surrounded by mountains.[/quote]
    I happen to agree with Dennis…for now.

  370. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310768″][quote comment=”310765″]Not to mention that the swan station is next to the beach, and the bomb was located in a valley plain, surrounded by mountains.[/quote]
    I happen to agree with Dennis…for now.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Me too, for now. It seems odd though that the Swan station is the one where the “incident” was buried in concrete, and the Tempest station doesn’t seem to be the case – when the bomb was suppose to be encased in concrete, per Daniel.

  371. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310769″][quote comment=”310768″][quote comment=”310765″]Not to mention that the swan station is next to the beach, and the bomb was located in a valley plain, surrounded by mountains.[/quote]
    I happen to agree with Dennis…for now.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Me too, for now. It seems odd though that the Swan station is the one where the “incident” was buried in concrete, and the Tempest station doesn’t seem to be the case – when the bomb was suppose to be encased in concrete, per Daniel.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Well it’s hard to argue that fail safe means discharge the bomb. They were doing something every 108 minutes to stop something and if you couldn’t…then turn the key. Why would fail safe mean do the opposite?

  372. SerbianChris says:

    Hey guys, Regarding what Theresa’s sister said when Desmond was visiting.
    She said Theresa has been talking to our dad [in her consciousness travels] , our dad has been dead 5 years , which is about the time the plane crashed.
    Would that mean that Theresa’s father is someone who was in the Oceanic flight?
    This might help us figure out who Theresa is.
    also this disproves the theory that she’s a Widmore, because the sister claims that Widmore is taking care of them and their father died.

  373. agentLOST says:

    [quote comment=”310355″][/quote]
    The item that was “already his” was the compass. If Locke didn’t pick it then that’s the thing that upset him because Old Locke gave him the compass, so baby Locke should have picked out the compass. Far as Alpert knew, everything Old Locke was telling was coming true. Told him when and where he would be born, Alpert goes there. Still not sure, he tests him with the compass trick.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________________

    The reason young Locke did not know to pick the compass is because Alpert gave it to him as an adult. He could not have had a memory of ever receiving the compass.

  374. Dennis says:

    I still think that the swan was meant to plug a leak in the electromagnetic energy field contained in the giant wheel room, which was created when someone(faraday) did something to breach the walls against the doctor’s warnings, as seen in the first episode of the season. If you look at the blast door map

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jcarlson.com/files/images/TheTempleLost.preview.jpg&imgrefurl=http://jcarlson.com/lost/lost-cartography&usg=__qUG6aEabTsMq0B03CLOh0TlPycI=&h=394&w=700&sz=21&hl=en&start=13&sig2=gp1hpl9Do5_cjNlZBQ6V0A&um=1&tbnid=KFjlGepcW6t9tM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=140&ei=81OCSfe6MYqa-gaY3OEs&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlost%2Btempest%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DN

    You’ll see that the swan(as well as all the other stations) does attempt to connect to the center, which i assume is the wheel chamber. So it’s possible that each of the stations was originally created and mined out in order to find a way to access the energy in the wheel room, the swan station being the result of an accident that caused a leak that needed to be controlled, and the orchid the access point.

  375. duke says:

    [quote comment=”310679″][quote comment=”310635″]In my opinion I’m pretty certain Hawking is Daniel’s Mother.
    I think that The young lady soldier, Ellie, is Ms Hawking, Daniel’s mom. from a timeline poitn of view it makes lots of sense, and daniel sees her as very familiar, of course this is her way before daniel was born so he wouldnt know exactly how she looked like but he’s super familiar. my money’s on the fact that

    Hawking = Ellie = Dan’s mom.

    However Eloise (sick lady) isnt, her and faraday were the same age in the pic, plus the sister knows faraday and so on.. too many reasons not to believe it.
    It might be charlotte tho, but i doubt that too.

    one thing we should mention is that the sister said that eloise had been talking to her dad, who’s been dead 5 years.
    That about the time the plane crashed. Is Eloise’s dad one of the losties? I’ll bet!
    Probably an older guy, but who.[/quote]

    The sick woman isn’t an Eloise – her name is Theresa. Ms. Hawking is Eloise and Ellie.[/quote]

    How do we know that dan’s mom’s name is Eloise. The only Eloise that I have heard/remember is the rat?

  376. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310771″][quote comment=”310769″][quote comment=”310768″][quote comment=”310765″]Not to mention that the swan station is next to the beach, and the bomb was located in a valley plain, surrounded by mountains.[/quote]
    I happen to agree with Dennis…for now.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Me too, for now. It seems odd though that the Swan station is the one where the “incident” was buried in concrete, and the Tempest station doesn’t seem to be the case – when the bomb was suppose to be encased in concrete, per Daniel.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Well it’s hard to argue that fail safe means discharge the bomb. They were doing something every 108 minutes to stop something and if you couldn’t…then turn the key. Why would fail safe mean do the opposite?[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Hammer I’m really sorry, but I have no idea what you are saying! Would you mind trying again please?

  377. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310660″]Still need these questions answered
    -Can Alpert really time travel? From what we are finding out, it seems that he never did time travel. Not only that, he didn’t even know it was possible until Locke told him. He went to see baby Locke because he was told to AHEAD of time to do so.
    -Why do people believe that the Others/ Hostiles don’t age? I can’t think of anyone besides Alpert that does not age. We didn’t see Ethan or Tom or any of the other Others we know at the camp last night. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that they DO age, BUT Alpert is the exception?
    -Could Widmore been have behind Locke’s mom getting run over the day he was born?
    -Could he also have been behind Juliette’s ex getting run over by the bus (maybe she was the real target)?
    [/quote]
    1. We still don’t have any evidence either way to say whether or not Alpert ever time-travelled
    2. Yeah I never agreed with the theory that “Others” never age. The only person we’ve seen who never ages is Richard. There may be others but we have yet to see that
    3. Quite possible
    4. Not likely – we were led to believe that Richard arranged for that. Juliet interviewed with Richard, I think in “Not in Portland”. She said she couldn’t take the job unless her ex got hit by a bus. Shortly after, the ex gets hit by a bus.

  378. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310776″]
    How do we know that dan’s mom’s name is Eloise. The only Eloise that I have heard/remember is the rat?[/quote]
    The only way I found this out is in last night’s repeat of “The Lie”, one of the “pop-up” pieces of info was…”This is Eloise Hawkins”. Kind of an uncool, almost spoilerish way to reveal that piece of info, IMHO.

  379. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310757″][quote comment=”310755″]i’m not sure, so i’d say no. unless it confirms something…i dunno.
    but i’m shelley_raymond at hotmail![/quote] :) Well, it doesn’t confirm anything. So I’ll just mention there is a new D&C vidcast out today for those that are interested.[/quote]

    [quote comment=”310758″]It was generally decided at some point that D&C podcasts can be considered cannon and are acceptable to discuss. FWIW.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Yup, like PJ says, it’s considered OK to discuss podcasts her.

  380. SerbianChris says:

    I’m not sure the counter thing and the H-bomb are connected at all.
    It’s possible that the only reason Faraday wants that bomb intact and in the ground is so that he can use it to blow the island to piece once and for all, once the time comes.
    I think that H-bomb might be used at the series finale.

  381. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310777″]______________________________________
    Hammer I’m really sorry, but I have no idea what you are saying! Would you mind trying again please?[/quote]
    +++++++++
    I’m sorry Rita, that is confusing. I was just trying to reinforce Dennis’s point that the Swan isn’t where Jughead is. (I say ‘is’ because I don’t think it’s been discharged.)

    I was trying to say that fail safe means to stop what is going to happen in another way than you normally do. So how can turning the fail safe key discharge the bomb? Better?

  382. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310724″][quote comment=”310673″][quote]kate, I have to agree with the majority on your first q. Locke was too young to remember Alpert.

    As far as Des and Dan… What scene were they in together (physically) last season?[/quote]

    I guess when Des calls Faraday on the phone (or somehow Des is talking to Faraday b/c he gives him the instructions to go to Oxford) then 2005 Des Consciousness (who has been in the hatch) goes to 1996 Faraday in Oxford. The minute Des walked into Faraday’s office, why didn’t Des say, “omg you are the guy who knocked on the hatch”?[/quote]

    __________________________________________

    I’m going to say it’s because it had not happened in that timeline. Sorry Dan believers, but multiple timelines have to exist in theoretical time travel. Think the past cannot be changed. What if you time traveled to the past with a nuclear device and set it off as soon as you arrived? Change, my friends… and on a seperate timeline from the one where you came from.[/quote]
    ____________________

    I don’t know about any rules of theoretical time travel – but really, if it’s theoretical, I’m sure every theorist could make up his or her own rules to suit their theory.

    However, in the context of this show, whether you agree or disagree, it has been made clear that there is only one timeline. Both Mrs. Hawkings and Daniel have stated you cannot change the past. There’s been such an emphasis placed on that rule in this show that at this point it would be a big cop-out if they came along and said well, we didn’t really mean that. And, I believe there was some interview with D&C where they outright stated that would be no paradoxes in the time travel presented on the show – for example, a character can’t travel back in time and kill his own mother before the character was born. I’ll see if I can find that interview.

  383. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310783″]
    However, in the context of this show, whether you agree or disagree, it has been made clear that there is only one timeline. Both Mrs. Hawkings and Daniel have stated you cannot change the past. There’s been such an emphasis placed on that rule in this show that at this point it would be a big cop-out if they came along and said well, we didn’t really mean that. And, I believe there was some interview with D&C where they outright stated that would be no paradoxes in the time travel presented on the show – for example, a character can’t travel back in time and kill his own mother before the character was born. I’ll see if I can find that interview.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Agreed, I heard/saw that too. Thanks for stating it.

  384. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310782″][quote comment=”310777″]______________________________________
    Hammer I’m really sorry, but I have no idea what you are saying! Would you mind trying again please?[/quote]
    +++++++++
    I’m sorry Rita, that is confusing. I was just trying to reinforce Dennis’s point that the Swan isn’t where Jughead is. (I say ‘is’ because I don’t think it’s been discharged.)

    I was trying to say that fail safe means to stop what is going to happen in another way than you normally do. So how can turning the fail safe key discharge the bomb? Better?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    OK gotcha! And I agree that Jughead is still there – probably at the Tempest station. Weird though, that they encased the “incident” at the swan in concrete (rather than Jughead), but that might have been just to throw us all off.

  385. SerbianChris says:

    [quote comment=”310724″]
    __________________________________________

    I’m going to say it’s because it had not happened in that timeline. Sorry Dan believers, but multiple timelines have to exist in theoretical time travel. Think the past cannot be changed. What if you time traveled to the past with a nuclear device and set it off as soon as you arrived? Change, my friends… and on a seperate timeline from the one where you came from.[/quote]
    —————————————————
    If you were to travel to the past and as much as breathe, you would change the whole future drastically, so much so that next to nothing would be the same. It’s the butterfly effect. you dont need an atomic bomb. Throw a pebble into the past and you wont recognize the future anymore.
    But of course it’s all fiction here on the show, anything goes, and we go with it.

  386. Toeknee says:

    Here’s one example of what D&C have said about time travel:

    CUSE: We want the audience to believe that is THE future. We don’t want people thinking, ”Well, since there are five iterations of this, I’m not going to invest in what’s happening to the characters.”

    LINDELOF: We’re not going to tell you that we’re against bending the time-space continuum. We are very for it. Carlton and I are PRO time-space continuum bending! But we’re ANTI-paradox. Paradox creates issues. In Heroes, Masi Oka’s character travels back from the future to say, ”You must prevent New York from being destroyed.” But if they prevent New York from being destroyed, Masi Oka can never travel back from the future to warn you, because Future Hiro no longer exists. Right? So when we start having those conversations at Lost, we go, ”This show is already confusing enough as it is.” To actually have characters traveling through time has to be handled very deftly.

    This was from the 3rd page of this interview:

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20179125_3,00.html

  387. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310744″][quote comment=”310742″]What about this.

    Confirmed Dead: Faraday sees the 815 wreckage, he is living with Theresa in the U.K.

    Does whatever he does to her (time-traveling experiment?) and makes her a vegetable, then takes off to the island.

    The woman in Comfirmed Dead with Daniel has a British accent and is wearing a wedding ring.

    I know Lostpedia is saying it was 8 years after the Theresa accident, but….why? What have we heard/seen to show that?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I don’t know why the 8 years, or why they think he is living in America at the time. It makes more sense to think he is living in England with Theresa and the caregivers, and then leaves from there to “go to America” (cover story) – really off on the freighter to go to the island to look for answers to help poor Theresa.[/quote]
    __________________
    In the episode “Confirmed Dead”, when they showed Daniel watching the footage of the crash of Oceanic 815, a subtitle came on the screen saying his location was Essex, Massachusetts.

  388. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310790″][quote comment=”310744″][quote comment=”310742″]What about this.

    Confirmed Dead: Faraday sees the 815 wreckage, he is living with Theresa in the U.K.

    Does whatever he does to her (time-traveling experiment?) and makes her a vegetable, then takes off to the island.

    The woman in Comfirmed Dead with Daniel has a British accent and is wearing a wedding ring.

    I know Lostpedia is saying it was 8 years after the Theresa accident, but….why? What have we heard/seen to show that?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I don’t know why the 8 years, or why they think he is living in America at the time. It makes more sense to think he is living in England with Theresa and the caregivers, and then leaves from there to “go to America” (cover story) – really off on the freighter to go to the island to look for answers to help poor Theresa.[/quote]
    __________________
    In the episode “Confirmed Dead”, when they showed Daniel watching the footage of the crash of Oceanic 815, a subtitle came on the screen saying his location was Essex, Massachusetts.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Rats! Another perfectly good theory down the drain!

  389. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310637″]Regarding the Alpert storming off thing
    He didnt really get mad, it was an act, he purposely added a false item to make sure it’s john, and john actually passed.
    He just pretended that he failed and left.
    He was there under the pretext that he was sending john to a special school, so he had to pretend locke failed otherwise he’d have to take the kid to that school, and it was bs to start with.
    Also he might have done that to incite john to be more curious about this later on.
    But john didnt fail as a child.[/quote]
    I don’t quite get this. “He purposely added a false item” How was the knife any more or less false than the other items. After these last two episodes I think it’s pretty clear the compass was the item he was supposed to pick. It’s the only item we know actually belonged to Locke.

    If Locke did select the compass, Alpert would have been glad to take Locke to the island. And I don’t think the foster mother would have cared – Alpert probably could have paid her and she’d be glad to get rid of the kid. I don’t think that lady would follow up and make sure Locke was really going to a special school. Although, on the island, I’m sure there would be a special program set up for Locke.

    And i can’t see how Richard leaving would motivate Locke to be more curious about this later. I don’t think Locke had any sort clue about what was going on. To a 5 year old, school’s school, he wouldn’t be disappointed about not being selected for a special school. I’m sure he forgot about that encounter very shortly after it happened.

  390. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310791″][quote comment=”310790″][quote comment=”310744″][quote comment=”310742″]What about this.

    Confirmed Dead: Faraday sees the 815 wreckage, he is living with Theresa in the U.K.

    Does whatever he does to her (time-traveling experiment?) and makes her a vegetable, then takes off to the island.

    The woman in Comfirmed Dead with Daniel has a British accent and is wearing a wedding ring.

    I know Lostpedia is saying it was 8 years after the Theresa accident, but….why? What have we heard/seen to show that?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I don’t know why the 8 years, or why they think he is living in America at the time. It makes more sense to think he is living in England with Theresa and the caregivers, and then leaves from there to “go to America” (cover story) – really off on the freighter to go to the island to look for answers to help poor Theresa.[/quote]
    __________________
    In the episode “Confirmed Dead”, when they showed Daniel watching the footage of the crash of Oceanic 815, a subtitle came on the screen saying his location was Essex, Massachusetts.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Rats! Another perfectly good theory down the drain![/quote]

    ********************
    maybe he’s a serial “time traveling-induced coma” guy and he has women all over the globe that he’s affected… :)

    i’m sure there’s a reason he wasn’t there with theresa and why there was a caretaker with him we’ll just have to wait and see :)

  391. Toeknee says:

    Actually, Rita, and LINS, and Hurley’s Dad, I still think the theory is possible, it’s just that the location was wrong. It could very well be that a vegetative Theresa was in Essex with Daniel and a caretaker. Amd when he left to go on the freighter, Theresa’s family took her back to England.

  392. Toeknee says:

    Oops, sorry, I have to take that back. Here’s the transcript, per Lostpedia. Theresa wasn’t in Essex with Daniel:

    DESMOND: I’m sorry. Um, this was a mistake. I… I shouldn’t have come.

    (Daniel moves to leave.)

    ABIGAIL: Of course. Why would you want to stay? Daniel certainly didn’t.

    DESMOND: (Turning) He left her like this?

    ABIGAIL: Went running off to the States, never to be heard from again. He abandoned her. What kind of a man does that?

  393. Amber says:

    This is kind of out there and not even sure if its possible seeing as how Richard is doesnt age and is special. But what if Richard and Elli the gun girl are Daniels parents. and Richard new she couldnt have the baby there and made Widmore take her off the island. Maybe thats why Elli is special and knows so much about the island. And so Widmore has been trying to get back ever sense. Yea i know im really reaching here but hey who knows

  394. Amber says:

    Im just trying to figure out how Widmore got off the island in the first place

  395. DocH says:

    Jughead? Did anyone get the same vibe as I did when we first saw the h-bomb hanging from the tower? The vibe that the tower was the EXACT same location as the radio tower that was broadcasting Rousseau’s transmission. The structure next to it and the tower were identical. Not the same material, but oriented the same way… only updated – metal tower… more modern structure. I offer this without having reviewed the ep.

  396. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”310809″]Jughead? Did anyone get the same vibe as I did when we first saw the h-bomb hanging from the tower? The vibe that the tower was the EXACT same location as the radio tower that was broadcasting Rousseau’s transmission. The structure next to it and the tower were identical. Not the same material, but oriented the same way… only updated – metal tower… more modern structure. I offer this without having reviewed the ep.[/quote]

    it did look similar, i remember that the radio tower had a room at the bottom that they went into to stop the signal from broadcasting, that’s pretty much all i remember though…

    as far as the bomb being kept at the tempest, wasn’t that where goodwin worked? didn’t juliet treat him for chemical burns, could that possibly have been radiation burns? makes more sense after dan noticing the radiation burns on the “other” guy with the wraps on his hands…

  397. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310779″]The only way I found this out is in last night’s repeat of “The Lie”, one of the “pop-up” pieces of info was…”This is Eloise Hawkins”.

    Kind of an uncool, almost spoilerish way to reveal that piece of info, IMHO.[/quote]

    Again, D&C have said that they are NOT in control of the pop-ups and that is a separate company hired by ABC. They have said that pop-ups are NOT cannon. I cannot remember the specific incident but there WAS one last season where the pop up was a slight misdirection.

    So, neither Daniel’s “caretaker” nor his geographic location (there IS an Essex in England!), nor Mrs. Hawking’s first name are set in stone. I expect that they ARE correct, but well… mistakes happen.

    : ) P

  398. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310783″]I believe there was some interview with D&C where they outright stated that would be no paradoxes in the time travel presented on the show – for example, a character can’t travel back in time and kill his own mother before the character was born. I’ll see if I can find that interview.[/quote]

    True. And I believe them in this case. But as a NOTE, D&C ALSO teased us by vehemently DENYING that there would be ANY time travel in this show. In fairness, there was a LOT of joking around, but those words came out of their mouths. I don’t know which podcast, but it was in one of the very early ones they did. I referenced it on this blog last year sometime.

    As I said, I DO believe them when they say there will be no paradox. I feel as if they believe that paradox is the easy way out for the writer. They want to take the “high road” and make sure that they have closed any possible loops with respect to paradox. But I had to put it out there, that they have messed with us before! *bg*

    : ) P

  399. DocH says:

    [quote]
    “This is Eloise Hawkins”.
    [/quote]
    Also note that ‘Ellie’ is a nickname for Eloise AND the time travelling rat was Eloise.

  400. rew says:

    I have a question?
    Wheres Rose and Bernard, they are still on the island but are clearly not with the rest of the remaining survivors. Are they just chillen in the woods or did they die with the rest of the survivors?

  401. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310811″][quote comment=”310779″]The only way I found this out is in last night’s repeat of “The Lie”, one of the “pop-up” pieces of info was…”This is Eloise Hawkins”.

    Kind of an uncool, almost spoilerish way to reveal that piece of info, IMHO.[/quote]

    Again, D&C have said that they are NOT in control of the pop-ups and that is a separate company hired by ABC. They have said that pop-ups are NOT cannon. I cannot remember the specific incident but there WAS one last season where the pop up was a slight misdirection.

    So, neither Daniel’s “caretaker” nor his geographic location (there IS an Essex in England!), nor Mrs. Hawking’s first name are set in stone. I expect that they ARE correct, but well… mistakes happen.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Agreed that caretaker and Eloise are not set in stone, but Essex, MA is. That wasn’t revealed in a “pop-up”. There was text on the screen, similar to how some of this season’s episode have had text saying “Three Years Earlier”

  402. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310922″][quote comment=”310811″][quote comment=”310779″]The only way I found this out is in last night’s repeat of “The Lie”, one of the “pop-up” pieces of info was…”This is Eloise Hawkins”.

    Kind of an uncool, almost spoilerish way to reveal that piece of info, IMHO.[/quote]

    Again, D&C have said that they are NOT in control of the pop-ups and that is a separate company hired by ABC. They have said that pop-ups are NOT cannon. I cannot remember the specific incident but there WAS one last season where the pop up was a slight misdirection.

    So, neither Daniel’s “caretaker” nor his geographic location (there IS an Essex in England!), nor Mrs. Hawking’s first name are set in stone. I expect that they ARE correct, but well… mistakes happen.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Agreed that caretaker and Eloise are not set in stone, but Essex, MA is. That wasn’t revealed in a “pop-up”. There was text on the screen, similar to how some of this season’s episode have had text saying “Three Years Earlier”[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Maybe Dan ran to the states ended up doing to himself what he did to Theresa? Maybe Ms. H pulled him out of it and sent him on his way to the island.

  403. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310810″][quote comment=”310809″]Jughead? Did anyone get the same vibe as I did when we first saw the h-bomb hanging from the tower? The vibe that the tower was the EXACT same location as the radio tower that was broadcasting Rousseau’s transmission. The structure next to it and the tower were identical. Not the same material, but oriented the same way… only updated – metal tower… more modern structure. I offer this without having reviewed the ep.[/quote]

    it did look similar, i remember that the radio tower had a room at the bottom that they went into to stop the signal from broadcasting, that’s pretty much all i remember though…

    as far as the bomb being kept at the tempest, wasn’t that where goodwin worked? didn’t juliet treat him for chemical burns, could that possibly have been radiation burns? makes more sense after dan noticing the radiation burns on the “other” guy with the wraps on his hands…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    The only thing is, we previously thought that the Tempest is where the purge gas came from because the characters where basically telling us that. I choose to believe for now that we were being mislead and Jughead is in the Tempest.

  404. shellonius funk says:

    PEOPLE:

    LOCKE PICKED THE COMPASS. HE DID PICK IT.

    please go watch the episode again and stop talking about the friggin’ compass and why he didn’t pick it. HE DID!!! :-)

  405. shellonius funk says:

    LINS….i agree about the chemical burn…i remember thinking about her saying she knew he was lying about the type of burn.

  406. shellonius funk says:

    i’m on board with the Bomb In The Hatch idea.
    and the name Kelvin sures it up for me.
    dan did ask for concrete and lead, but electromagnetism is another means of compression.
    i think the electromagnetism used to compress it was being piped in from the orchid.
    the button deals with the electromagnetic charge building up every 108 minutes. and the fail safe key implodes the bomb. but it’s a smaller/safer blast because of the compression that’s been happening over all the time with the button-hitting.
    the day des killed kelvin and just missed the button was the day the plane crashed. a result of the electromagnetic charge.

  407. shellonius funk says:

    i meant bomb in the swan.

  408. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310931″]PEOPLE:

    LOCKE PICKED THE COMPASS. HE DID PICK IT.

    please go watch the episode again and stop talking about the friggin’ compass and why he didn’t pick it. HE DID!!! :-)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++=
    Finally! A fact check! He picked three things, the compass being one of them.

    RICHARD: I want you to look at these things… and think about ‘em.

    (He places some items on the table)

    RICHARD: Okay, now tell me, John, which of these things belong to you?

    JOHN: To–to keep?

    RICHARD: No, no, John. Which of these things belong to you already?

    (John takes a vial of some kind of substance, a compass and after a pause, a knife.)

    RICHARD: Are you sure the knife belongs to you, John?

    (John nods)

    RICAHRD: You sure about that?

    (sighs)

    RICHARD: Well, it doesn’t.

    (Richard snatches the knife away)

    WOMAN: How did he do?

    RICHARD: I’m afraid John isn’t quite ready for our school. I’m sorry I’ve wasted your time.

  409. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310934″]i’m on board with the Bomb In The Hatch idea.
    and the name Kelvin sures it up for me.
    dan did ask for concrete and lead, but electromagnetism is another means of compression.
    i think the electromagnetism used to compress it was being piped in from the orchid.
    the button deals with the electromagnetic charge building up every 108 minutes. and the fail safe key implodes the bomb. but it’s a smaller/safer blast because of the compression that’s been happening over all the time with the button-hitting.
    the day des killed kelvin and just missed the button was the day the plane crashed. a result of the electromagnetic charge.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    I get all of your points except ‘the name Kelvin’ arguement. What do you mean?

  410. shellonius funk says:

    kelvin is the unit that measures temperatures, and a light went off in my head when i saw it on the radiation implosion wiki page. i’m not saying it seals the deal, but i dig it.

  411. Hurley's Dad says:

    Hammer – take a look at my post #359. It’s got a link to the wiki page and an excerpt about Radiation Implosion.

    It basically says electromagnatism is a part of the H-bombs. It also talks about “Kelvins”, which would be another subtle hint from the producers using a name to tell us more of the story.

  412. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310938″]Finally! A fact check! He picked three things, the compass being one of them.
    [/quote]

    I agree that, according to the TRANSCRIPT, John picked three things. However, if you look at the screen, he picks up and puts down the first two things. If you parse the script, it seems like Captain Eyeliner might be asking young John to pick as many things as he likes. And that may INDEED be what he is saying. But on screen, the child CONSIDERS the first two things and then puts them down. It would be different if he picked all three things and held them near him, but I do not believe that to be the case.

    Your point is valid, though, because it could be that he was SUPPOSED to pick the compass and the vial, but when he picks up the knife (probably because he wants it), that “ruins it” in the eyes of Alpert.

    : ) P

  413. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310942″]Hammer – take a look at my post #359. It’s got a link to the wiki page and an excerpt about Radiation Implosion.

    It basically says electromagnatism is a part of the H-bombs. It also talks about “Kelvins”, which would be another subtle hint from the producers using a name to tell us more of the story.[/quote]
    Thank you.

  414. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310943″][quote comment=”310938″]Finally! A fact check! He picked three things, the compass being one of them.
    [/quote]

    I agree that, according to the TRANSCRIPT, John picked three things. However, if you look at the screen, he picks up and puts down the first two things. If you parse the script, it seems like Captain Eyeliner might be asking young John to pick as many things as he likes. And that may INDEED be what he is saying. But on screen, the child CONSIDERS the first two things and then puts them down. It would be different if he picked all three things and held them near him, but I do not believe that to be the case.

    Your point is valid, though, because it could be that he was SUPPOSED to pick the compass and the vial, but when he picks up the knife (probably because he wants it), that “ruins it” in the eyes of Alpert.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Touche!! I tried to watch the scene but my laptop was ‘hanging up’. So I went to the script. So I must now say…finally! A BETTER fact check.

    My mind is now changed back to Alpert being angered that Locke chose the knife…because Locke didn’t know about it yet. :)

  415. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310749″]For those that like the idea of the H-Bomb being behind the concrete in the Swan.

    In “Further Instructions”
    CHARLIE: What happened?
    LOCKE: Looks like it imploded.

    Radiation Implosion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_implosion

    The term radiation implosion describes the process behind a class of devices which use high levels of electromagnetic radiation to compress a target. The major use for this technology is in fusion bombs and inertial confinement fusion research.[/quote]
    In your research, did you find anything that would clue us in to why there would be a need to ‘relieve’ a build up on an ongoing basis?

  416. Toeknee says:

    I just watched that scene here:

    And I’m with PJ – Locke only selects one object, the knife. He appears to be considering the vial and the compass, but while looking at them, he never looks at Richard. Then he picks up the knife, and after a few seconds, he looks at Richard, as if to say “this one.” Then, Richard says, are you sure the knife is yours? etc

  417. Dennis says:

    After reading up on the Tempest station, I’ll have to change my mind and agree that the jughead isn’t there. I didn’t know the character’s pretty much said right out that it’s a chemical station. I was put off guard by Dan’s confidence in his dangerous-device defusing skills. :)

    But I still would find it hard to believe it’s in the Swan… from teh barracks to the beach is a long way to move a large, unstable hydrogen bomb which probably weighs a few tons, especially since it’s leaking dangerous chemicals everywhere. I’ll stand by my theory that the swan is a plug for a hole in the wheel room, for now.

    It is possible that the jughead is sealed in lead and concrete, but there just wasn’t a station built around it. Afterall, how would dharma know that it was there if the bomb was sealed 30 years before Dharma’s arrival, and why would it be necessary to build an entire station around it?

  418. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”310948″]After reading up on the Tempest station, I’ll have to change my mind and agree that the jughead isn’t there. I didn’t know the character’s pretty much said right out that it’s a chemical station. I was put off guard by Dan’s confidence in his dangerous-device defusing skills. :)

    But I still would find it hard to believe it’s in the Swan… from teh barracks to the beach is a long way to move a large, unstable hydrogen bomb which probably weighs a few tons, especially since it’s leaking dangerous chemicals everywhere. I’ll stand by my theory that the swan is a plug for a hole in the wheel room, for now.

    It is possible that the jughead is sealed in lead and concrete, but there just wasn’t a station built around it. Afterall, how would dharma know that it was there if the bomb was sealed 30 years before Dharma’s arrival, and why would it be necessary to build an entire station around it?[/quote]

    What if Jughead is inside the giat 4-toed foot! jk

  419. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310947″]I just watched that scene here:

    And I’m with PJ – Locke only selects one object, the knife. He appears to be considering the vial and the compass, but while looking at them, he never looks at Richard. Then he picks up the knife, and after a few seconds, he looks at Richard, as if to say “this one.” Then, Richard says, are you sure the knife is yours? etc[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Here comes the flip flopping (mine). Now that I have watched the scene (thanks ToeKnee for the link), I am thinking there is plenty of room of interpretation. First, Alpert doesn’t ask ‘which ONE of these things’, but just ‘which of these’. Then, I took Locke’s pulling the objects and putting them directly in front of himself as choosing them and looked up when he was done picking items that belong to him. Alpert SEEMED content with the first two items separated from the rest, but became angered when he added the knife.
    I’m just saying, it could be interpreted both ways.

  420. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310948″]After reading up on the Tempest station, I’ll have to change my mind and agree that the jughead isn’t there. I didn’t know the character’s pretty much said right out that it’s a chemical station. I was put off guard by Dan’s confidence in his dangerous-device defusing skills. :)

    But I still would find it hard to believe it’s in the Swan… from teh barracks to the beach is a long way to move a large, unstable hydrogen bomb which probably weighs a few tons, especially since it’s leaking dangerous chemicals everywhere. I’ll stand by my theory that the swan is a plug for a hole in the wheel room, for now.

    It is possible that the jughead is sealed in lead and concrete, but there just wasn’t a station built around it. Afterall, how would dharma know that it was there if the bomb was sealed 30 years before Dharma’s arrival, and why would it be necessary to build an entire station around it?[/quote]
    I’m not opposing your comment here. But DHARMA would absolutley know about the bomb because Widmore was there when the bomb arrived and Widmore was funding DHARMA.

  421. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”310951″]
    Here comes the flip flopping (mine). Now that I have watched the scene (thanks ToeKnee for the link), I am thinking there is plenty of room of interpretation. First, Alpert doesn’t ask ‘which ONE of these things’, but just ‘which of these’. Then, I took Locke’s pulling the objects and putting them directly in front of himself as choosing them and looked up when he was done picking items that belong to him. Alpert SEEMED content with the first two items separated from the rest, but became angered when he added the knife.
    I’m just saying, it could be interpreted both ways.[/quote]
    I hear you, and I could see how people would interpret it as if he selected three items.

    And if you want to get more technical, he said “Which of these belong to you?”, not “Which of these belongs to you?”, and because he used belong, one could infer that he intended the noun (Locke’s selection) to be plural.

    Aside to PJSander – I shall remain eternally grateful to you for teaching me about using bold and italics!

  422. Miraks says:

    [quote comment=”310951″][quote comment=”310947″]I just watched that scene here:

    And I’m with PJ – Locke only selects one object, the knife. He appears to be considering the vial and the compass, but while looking at them, he never looks at Richard. Then he picks up the knife, and after a few seconds, he looks at Richard, as if to say “this one.” Then, Richard says, are you sure the knife is yours? etc[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Here comes the flip flopping (mine). Now that I have watched the scene (thanks ToeKnee for the link), I am thinking there is plenty of room of interpretation. First, Alpert doesn’t ask ‘which ONE of these things’, but just ‘which of these’. Then, I took Locke’s pulling the objects and putting them directly in front of himself as choosing them and looked up when he was done picking items that belong to him. Alpert SEEMED content with the first two items separated from the rest, but became angered when he added the knife.
    I’m just saying, it could be interpreted both ways.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    I tend to think that he did pick those two things. The compass was a good choice. The vial looked like it held sand/ soil from the island- another good choice. But then he picked the knife instead of the book of laws. Bad choice.

    But this underscores Locke’s whole attitude and wanting to be a warrior. In the same episode we see Locke as a high schooler, and his science teacher tells him there is some science camp that he would be great for. Locke insists he would rather play football. His teacher tells him he is not a football player, but a scientist, but Locke gets mad.

    All of this leads to the Man of Science/ Man of Faith idea from season one. Back then it looked like Jack was going to be the man of science and Locke the man of faith, but I think by the end it will be the “shepherd” Jack who is the man of faith, and Locke who is the man of science.

  423. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310954″]
    I tend to think that he did pick those two things. The compass was a good choice. The vial looked like it held sand/ soil from the island- another good choice. But then he picked the knife instead of the book of laws. Bad choice.

    But this underscores Locke’s whole attitude and wanting to be a warrior. In the same episode we see Locke as a high schooler, and his science teacher tells him there is some science camp that he would be great for. Locke insists he would rather play football. His teacher tells him he is not a football player, but a scientist, but Locke gets mad.

    All of this leads to the Man of Science/ Man of Faith idea from season one. Back then it looked like Jack was going to be the man of science and Locke the man of faith, but I think by the end it will be the “shepherd” Jack who is the man of faith, and Locke who is the man of science.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Good stuff Miraks.

  424. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310954″]All of this leads to the Man of Science/ Man of Faith idea from season one. Back then it looked like Jack was going to be the man of science and Locke the man of faith, but I think by the end it will be the “shepherd” Jack who is the man of faith, and Locke who is the man of science.[/quote]

    Oooh, deep. No, seriously that is a terrific observation.

    : ) P

  425. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310953″]And if you want to get more technical, he said “Which of these belong to you?”, not “Which of these belongs to you?”, and because he used belong, one could infer that he intended the noun (Locke’s selection) to be plural.[/quote]

    And this is what I meant about parsing the script.

    When we watched that scene originally, we saw Captain Eyeliner, the crayon drawing of the smoke monster, and a collection of weird things out of a bag. Little boy Locke certainly appeared to pick the knife and we had no reason to parse Alpert’s words.

    Now that we know about the compass, we re-visit that scene and find things we didn’t GET before suddenly make sense. I have a suspicion that ALL of those items will come to mean something eventually. But let’s face facts, Locke DOES have a real THING for knives!

    The most important thing I draw from this conversation (ours, not LBL and Captain Eyeliner’s) is that D&C are freaking brilliant. I really feel as if nearly every scene we didn’t QUITE understand (the first time we watched) will all make sense by the time we are done.

    : ) P

  426. Miraks says:

    [quote comment=”310804″]Im just trying to figure out how Widmore got off the island in the first place[/quote]

    I think Widmore was banned by Jacob/ his people. We saw young Widmore break the neck of his fellow other when he felt like the guy was revealing to much information. He was also bitting at the bit to kill our guys when they rolled into camp (same with Ellie by the way). I think that by the time our group “flashed away” again, Alpert was convinced that Locke was the revealed new leader that they were instructed to eventually find, but Widmore (and maybe a group with him) did not believe that an “outsider” was meant to be in charge of “his” island. Thus setting up two rival groups, one in the Widmore camp, the other in the Alpert/ Ben/ Locke camp. Widmore’s group ended up off island. The question is which group does Jacob belong to? Was Christian Shepherd also part of this (maybe Widmore’s group)?

  427. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310960″]Was Christian Shepherd also part of this (maybe Widmore’s group)?[/quote]

    Oooh. Yeah. He is/was about the right age!

    MAYBE… just MAYBE… if you were on the island under some specific circumstance, you can return to the island after you die, to continue “living” in eternity!? Maybe THAT is why 815 had to crash? To return Christian to the island? Maybe THAT is why the O6 have to take Locke back? Maybe THAT is why Alpert appears never to age?

    Hmmm.

    : ) P

  428. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310959″]The most important thing I draw from this conversation (ours, not LBL and Captain Eyeliner’s) is that D&C are freaking brilliant. I really feel as if nearly every scene we didn’t QUITE understand (the first time we watched) will all make sense by the time we are done.

    : ) P[/quote]Now that I have NO debate for!!

  429. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”310961″][quote comment=”310960″]Was Christian Shepherd also part of this (maybe Widmore’s group)?[/quote]

    Oooh. Yeah. He is/was about the right age!

    MAYBE… just MAYBE… if you were on the island under some specific circumstance, you can return to the island after you die, to continue “living” in eternity!? Maybe THAT is why 815 had to crash? To return Christian to the island? Maybe THAT is why the O6 have to take Locke back? Maybe THAT is why Alpert appears never to age?

    Hmmm.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I like where you guys are going with this.

  430. PJSander says:

    So I ran the theory of eternal “living” past my dh and he asked why they have to take Locke back. Maybe Locke HAD to die to TRULY become the leader. Maybe Alpert and Christian and Locke, the unseen Jacob and possibly others are needed as some kind of quorum to accomplish the final goal (maybe as it relates to the Valenzetti equation).

    Maybe that is why Ben needed to be healed by Jack, because to become a leader, he has to die off island (not from a tumor ON island)?

    Okay, I have to turn my brain OFF for a few minutes!

    : ) P

  431. Miraks says:

    [quote comment=”310964″]So I ran the theory of eternal “living” past my dh and he asked why they have to take Locke back. Maybe Locke HAD to die to TRULY become the leader. Maybe Alpert and Christian and Locke, the unseen Jacob and possibly others are needed as some kind of quorum to accomplish the final goal (maybe as it relates to the Valenzetti equation).

    Maybe that is why Ben needed to be healed by Jack, because to become a leader, he has to die off island (not from a tumor ON island)?

    Okay, I have to turn my brain OFF for a few minutes!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——————
    Maybe that is why Locke would not/ could not die before? When he fell/ was pushed out the window by his father? It was not his time to die yet. Same as Michael could not shoot himself.

  432. LostinSev says:

    So Ben was never a leader of the Others? He ages right?? I think Ben is real in the flesh. He needed back surgery, remember?

  433. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”310968″]So Ben was never a leader of the Others? He ages right?? I think Ben is real in the flesh. He needed back surgery, remember?[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    I think perhaps Ben was never a legitimate leader of the Others.
    I still think it is important that Ben lied to his people (the Others, not Dharma) about being born on the island. He told Locke that they think he was, but he wasn’t. I think being born on the island gave him credibility with the Others that he would never have had otherwise – so he was chosen on false pretenses so to speak. He tried to hold onto that power, knowing that for him it was illegitimate. (NOT saying you have to be born on the island to be chosen a leader – just that this seems to be a part of Ben’s being chosen). He CAN hear/see Jacob, but so can several others. It isn’t enough by itself to become the leader.

  434. vavila says:

    [quote comment=”310974″][quote comment=”310968″]So Ben was never a leader of the Others? He ages right?? I think Ben is real in the flesh. He needed back surgery, remember?[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    I think perhaps Ben was never a legitimate leader of the Others.
    I still think it is important that Ben lied to his people (the Others, not Dharma) about being born on the island. He told Locke that they think he was, but he wasn’t. I think being born on the island gave him credibility with the Others that he would never have had otherwise – so he was chosen on false pretenses so to speak. He tried to hold onto that power, knowing that for him it was illegitimate. (NOT saying you have to be born on the island to be chosen a leader – just that this seems to be a part of Ben’s being chosen). He CAN hear/see Jacob, but so can several others. It isn’t enough by itself to become the leader.[/quote]


    I think that undoubtedly Ben is some kind of leader of ‘Others’, I never thought that he was the highest in the hierarchy and i think he has to do a lot of dirty work… Alpert said that leaders are chosen very carefully, so for Ben to be anywhere in the hierarchy, he must have been chosen, so i think that Ben is special and is key for preserving the island. Surely his role in the purge was essential. There are many reasons why Ben might have had to lie to the Others about being born on the island, there are reasons for being hostile towards losties and then proclaiming Locke to be the new leader, but somehow it’ll all make sense :)

  435. Bananahands says:

    Not sure if this was brought up but I couldn’t read every post. I read this idea somewhere else but expanded it.

    The polar bears were being trained on the island to move the island with the donkey wheel. Remember it was really cold when Ben was there. The reason being is that who ever moves the island is banished from it.

    So I’m thinking Whitmore moves the island at some point which is why he has been looking for it ever since. This also explains why the polar bear was in the dessert last season bc a polar bear moved the island as well at some point resulting in it being in the dessert. And we also now know that Ben is trying to get back to the island because he was the one who moved the donkey wheel at the end of last season.

    So now time is jumping and by getting the O6 back will somehow result in time correction (how I’m not sure yet) but the numbers will come into play…and so will the atom bomb.

  436. shellonius funk says:

    i need your help: who was it that said [about widmore?] “it took him 10 years to find it (the island) last time.”

    did they say 10 years? and who said it? my boss and i are scouring LOSTpedia because we can’t remember.

  437. agentLOST says:

    yes when we are watching the O6, it is three years later but when they go back to the island, it is right after the island moved. so eventually they will fill everything in that happened in the three years before the O6 comes back to the island i hope but that is a long time to cover with only this season and next season remaining.[/quote]
    ______________________________________________________

    Yes, three years is a lot of ground to cover in the remaining time the show has left. I’m especially looking forward to the rest of Locke’s story. I really want to see how he figures out how to leave the island and contact the O6’ers.

  438. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”310977″]Not sure if this was brought up but I couldn’t read every post. I read this idea somewhere else but expanded it.

    The polar bears were being trained on the island to move the island with the donkey wheel. Remember it was really cold when Ben was there. The reason being is that who ever moves the island is banished from it.

    So I’m thinking Whitmore moves the island at some point which is why he has been looking for it ever since. This also explains why the polar bear was in the dessert last season bc a polar bear moved the island as well at some point resulting in it being in the dessert. And we also now know that Ben is trying to get back to the island because he was the one who moved the donkey wheel at the end of last season.

    So now time is jumping and by getting the O6 back will somehow result in time correction (how I’m not sure yet) but the numbers will come into play…and so will the atom bomb.[/quote]
    I like that theory. It makes sense – the cages where they were training the bears with the fish biscuits. Able to maintain in frigid temperatures found in the Orchid. It alligns with the polar bears in tunisia.

    Would it also account for the polar bear that Sawyer shot – could it be plausible that like the bunny experiment Dr. Candle did in the Orchid that the bears multiplied and somehow got free on the island? Maybe I took your theory too far – but it does add up.

  439. agentLOST says:

    [quote comment=”310438″]Perhaps the “others” live an eternal life at the expense of not reproducing… sucks to live on a desert island with hot chicks, and no sex… if you ask me.
    ________________________________________________________

    Maybe there will be a spinoff show that will address this glaring issue…lol.

  440. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”310984″]i need your help: who was it that said [about widmore?] “it took him 10 years to find it (the island) last time.”

    did they say 10 years? and who said it? my boss and i are scouring LOSTpedia because we can’t remember.[/quote]

    Miles said 20 years to find it.

  441. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”310984″]i need your help: who was it that said [about widmore?] “it took him 10 years to find it (the island) last time.”

    did they say 10 years? and who said it? my boss and i are scouring LOSTpedia because we can’t remember.[/quote]

    It was Miles who said it to Charlotte in S5E1 “Because You Left”

    CHARLOTTE: Hey, do you think he’s looking for us?

    MILES: Who?

    CHARLOTTE: Widmore.

    MILES: It took him, like, 20 years to find this place the first time. I’ll start holding my breath now.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  442. agentLOST says:

    [quote comment=”310564″]New thought…

    Why was Widmore suddenly so gracious to Desmond — the man who’s been hiding his daughter? It seems as though Widmore is now afraid for his daughter’s safety and thinks that the longer she’s out of sight, the better. But safe from whom??[/quote]
    _______________________________________________________

    Ben. After Ben’s daughter Alex was killed by Keamy (the mercenary from last season), Ben swore to get revenge. Widmore needs to make sure Ben doesn’t find Penny.

  443. shellonius funk says:

    love the bears hitting the button [to move the wheel].
    nice work, bananahands.

  444. shellonius funk says:

    thanks pj.

  445. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”310948″]But I still would find it hard to believe it’s in the Swan… from teh barracks to the beach is a long way to move a large, unstable hydrogen bomb which probably weighs a few tons, especially since it’s leaking dangerous chemicals everywhere. I’ll stand by my theory that the swan is a plug for a hole in the wheel room, for now.[/quote]

    According to the screencaps, the bomb was not at the Barracks. It is at the Mesa, the same place Hurley found the VW bus and MUCH closer to The Swan.

  446. Tasker says:

    I searched for this on the blog but I don’t think anyone has caught it yet…

    Jughead Jones: Forsythe Pendleton “Jughead” Jones III was a regularly featured character in Archie Comics, notable as the lead character in a 1990 cartoon series, Jughead’s Time Police. In the series, Jughead, using a special beanie given by an unknown benefactor, travels through time fixing disturbances in the timeline with the help of one of his own descendants from the 29th century.

  447. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”310946″][quote comment=”310749″]For those that like the idea of the H-Bomb being behind the concrete in the Swan.

    In “Further Instructions”
    CHARLIE: What happened?
    LOCKE: Looks like it imploded.

    Radiation Implosion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_implosion

    The term radiation implosion describes the process behind a class of devices which use high levels of electromagnetic radiation to compress a target. The major use for this technology is in fusion bombs and inertial confinement fusion research.[/quote]
    In your research, did you find anything that would clue us in to why there would be a need to ‘relieve’ a build up on an ongoing basis?[/quote]

    Unfortunately no.

    I know we’ve been taught to look for alternatives with this show, but The Swan had electromagnatism, concrete and a Chernobyl reference.

    The entire reason Candle gave for pushing the button every 108 minutes was to avoid another “incident”.

    I’m having a very tough time believing a leaking H-Bomb isn’t the reason for the button.

  448. ShelbyDee says:

    My first post. I’ve been reading these comments looking for discussion of the following and I don’t think any one has mentioned it:
    – when Des travelled through time, it was his consciousness which did so, not his body. I like that idea because it made it impossible for him to meet himself in the past/future. Why is it the Losties are time travelling in body? Or are they? Maybe the island is travelling underneath them afterall as Daniel suggested (“either the island is travelling through time or we are”).
    – if one of the rules is that you can’t change significant historical lines, how is it that people are dying within their time travels? Both Losties and Others have been killed.
    – I love the name speculation brought up by Missy in comment 231 about “Charlotte” although I’m taking it in a different direction. I wonder about this affection that Daniel and Charlotte have for each other. I keep wondering why there hasn’t been a big slobbery kiss, only awkward hugs. Then I had a flash of Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker. . . they had a flirtation that went nowhere b/c they were brother/sister. Knowing the producers have a thing for Star Wars and now thanks to Missy seeing a connection between “Charlotte” and possibly Charles Widmore by name (wasn’t Charlotte Lewis one of three sisters?)… what if the two are related? Perhaps when Ben says he is going to kill Widmore’s daughter he is not talking about Penny.
    – What’s up with the box that Ben pulled out of the hotel a/c vent and stashed quickly into his luggage? I get a creepy feeling about what’s inside that box.
    – No one has really picked up on the missing Jin idea. I don’t believe for a millisecond he is dead. So where is he? He’s got to be in the Oceanic6 timeline so did Widmore take freighter survivors and stash them away? Did Others living off the island intervene to protect them (like the butcher lady). If Ben wants all the Losties to go back, wouldn’t this include Jin, Walt and any other 815 survivors who made it to the freighter? Or, if the island is moving in time, not the Losties, then is the freighter still with the island in 2003…. Ouch. That really hurt my brain.

    I’d love somebody to set me straight.

  449. great theory’s here the whole thing that the world will be saved if they all return to the island will actually be a bit cliche if that is indeed what is happening. perhaps none of this is real , perhaps its all a dream somehow explained in the later episodes, david lynch style…

  450. Eric says:

    Ms. Hawking is not Farraday’s mom. Ms. Hawking is the girl in the bed. Ms. Hawking is a special case, sent into Lost-time issues by Daniel’s experiments.

    Charlotte is his daughter with girl in bed/Ms. Hawking.

    Daniel’s exposure to radiation was just explained by his proximity to the bomb.

  451. Hurley's Dad says:

    Jughead was the 85th episode of the series, with 31 left until the finale.

    For some perspective, episode 54 was “Not in Portland” (3×07), the Juliet-centric episode that introduced “Mittelos”.

    When thinking about all the twists and turns we’ve had since NIP, is it humanly possible to see exactly where this thing will end???

    I hope not…. :)

  452. Hurley's Dad says:

    By the way…which one of our Losties is going to splice the Swan Orientation film, put it in a bible and bring it to the Arrow so Mr. Eko can find it?

  453. LostinSev says:

    [quote comment=”311043″]By the way…which one of our Losties is going to splice the Swan Orientation film, put it in a bible and bring it to the Arrow so Mr. Eko can find it?[/quote]

    Can you explain that further? I seem to have forgotten about that. What do you think Ecko and Yemi’s role is in all of this. And how did Yemi’s plane crash on the island?

    WHO is still sending Dharma supplies and food to the island if Widmore didn’t know where it was for so long?

  454. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311029″]My first post. – Perhaps when Ben says he is going to kill Widmore’s daughter he is not talking about Penny.
    – No one has really picked up on the missing Jin idea. I don’t believe for a millisecond he is dead. So where is he? .

    I’d love somebody to set me straight.[/quote]
    ___________________________________________
    Welcome ShelbyDee! Nice to see new “faces”.
    I really like your idea that it is NOT Penny Ben has in mind when he says he is going to kill Widmore’s daughter. That opens up some new possibilities we haven’t really explored yet.
    We have talked about what happened to Jin in the last couple of threads quite a bit. I agree with you that he isn’t dead, though there is some debate over whether he was within the radius of the island when it moved (so moved WITH the island)or not. Either way, where is he?

  455. Hurley's Dad says:

    OK..not taking credit for it because I read it on Lostpedia, but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been discussed here…

    What if Mrs. Hawking’s maiden name was Widmore, as in Ellie and Charles are brother/sister?

    The “conversation” they had seemed like she derided him and he snapped at her.

    YOUNG BLONDE HOSTILE: Outnumbered, eh?
    JONES: Shut up, Ellie.

  456. Hooked says:

    I’m a little shy about making comments because you all seem so brilliant, but I couldn’t hold it in any longer. No one in my circle watches LOST, so I come here to hang out with you guys for my daily fix.

    I was about to totally dismiss asking everyone to consider Daniel as Jacob until I read Tasker’s comment about Jughead Jones. After all, Daniel is travelling through time “fixing disturbances in the timeline.” Who else would be able to figure out how to “move” the island but the not so absentminded professor. Perhaps, over time, the cabin became the place he passed through most frequently or the cabin moves through time with him because he “touches” it, or something like that or not. Also, I’m beginning to believe the H-bomb is the reason behind a lot of the island mysteries: radiation treatment cures cancer and can affect pregnant women; caused the build up of electromagnet energy in the Swan station; provides the energy to induce time travel. The jolt from the crash could have helped along Locke’s recovery. If we think about it, everything could have a non-paranormal explanation. I used to just WATCH Lost because I thought it was creepy–the smoke monster, polar bears in the tropics, the whispers, Ben’s eyes — but it’s much more than that. It’s like a college course. We should all get some kind of degree once it’s over. I love all of your theories.

  457. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”311049″]OK..not taking credit for it because I read it on Lostpedia, but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been discussed here…

    What if Mrs. Hawking’s maiden name was Widmore, as in Ellie and Charles are brother/sister?

    The “conversation” they had seemed like she derided him and he snapped at her.

    YOUNG BLONDE HOSTILE: Outnumbered, eh?
    JONES: Shut up, Ellie.[/quote]

    I like it. It negates the need for an explanation about why Daniel named his rat after his mother. But then we have to ask… who is Daniel’s mother? Jill from the butcher shop maybe?

    : ) P

  458. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”311052″][quote comment=”311049″]OK..not taking credit for it because I read it on Lostpedia, but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been discussed here…

    What if Mrs. Hawking’s maiden name was Widmore, as in Ellie and Charles are brother/sister?

    The “conversation” they had seemed like she derided him and he snapped at her.

    YOUNG BLONDE HOSTILE: Outnumbered, eh?
    JONES: Shut up, Ellie.[/quote]

    I like it. It negates the need for an explanation about why Daniel named his rat after his mother. But then we have to ask… who is Daniel’s mother? Jill from the butcher shop maybe?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ———–
    No reason Ellie still can’t be his Mom and Charles Widmore is his uncle.

    I do think blonde Ellie is Daniel’s mother and that he knows it when he sees her.

    ELLIE: Why do you keep looking at me?
    FARADAY: No, no, I’m–I’m not. I–
    ELLIE: You are.
    FARADAY: You know what? You’re right. I’m–I’m sorry. It’s just… you look so much like… someone I used to know.
    ELLIE: Someone other than the girl you just professed your love for? Well, aren’t you the Romeo.
    FARADAY: Far from it, believe me.

    Wouldn’t that fit if Faraday knew he was talking to his mother (Back to the Future’esque?)?

  459. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”311048″]I really like your idea that it is NOT Penny [that] Ben has in mind when he says he is going to kill Widmore’s daughter. That opens up some new possibilities we haven’t really explored yet.[/quote]

    I considered this as well. Widmore’s seed may well be spread far and wide, but Ben did mention Penny by name:

    BEN: I’m here, Charles, to tell you that I’m going to kill your daughter. Penelope, is it? And once she’s gone… once she’s dead… then you’ll understand how I feel. And you’ll wish you hadn’t changed the rules.

    : ) P

  460. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”311050″]Also, I’m beginning to believe the H-bomb is the reason behind a lot of the island mysteries: radiation treatment cures cancer and can affect pregnant women; caused the build up of electromagnet energy in the Swan station….I love all of your theories.[/quote]

    I love yours too! Well done!

  461. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”311053″]No reason Ellie still can’t be his Mom and Charles Widmore is his uncle.
    [/quote]

    Fair enough. I just agree with Circus Mom that Mrs. Hawking as Daniel’s mother is being spoon fed to us. Then again, it might be that it is being spoon fed to the casual viewer who hasn’t realized that we’ve seen Mrs. Hawking several times before.

    : ) P

  462. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”311057″]
    Fair enough. I just agree with Circus Mom that Mrs. Hawking as Daniel’s mother is being spoon fed to us. Then again, it might be that it is being spoon fed to the casual viewer who hasn’t realized that we’ve seen Mrs. Hawking several times before.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Agreed. My biggest problem with her being his mother is Faraday doesn’t have an accent. That HAS to be intentional.

  463. DocH says:

    And we also now know that Ben is trying to get back to the island because…

    I think Ben knows how to get back to the island… he just needs to get the gang to go with him as part of his mission. Remember the obscure airport an hour outside of Miami – when they took Juliet to the island.

    WHO is still sending Dharma supplies and food to the island if Widmore didn’t know where it was…?

    Guessing that since Ben’s off-island support network (Sayid’s kidnappers, Butcher shop gal, etc…) still knows where the island is thanks to Ms Hawking (voo-doo math priestess). They can get to the location quickly with the re-supply plane. Widmore doesn’t have a Voo-doo mathematician.

  464. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311060
    Widmore doesn’t have a Voo-doo mathematician.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Well, he did, (or does?) – Daniel works/ed for Widmore.
    (I LOVE the “Voo-doo Math Priestess” reference! Too funny)

  465. DocH says:

    Daniel working for / worked for Widmore does not mean, or imply that he is complicit in Widmore’s grand scheme. Widmore may have simply presented himself as a rich benefactor in support of Daniel’s research. Widmore has an advantage on Daniel – Widmore met Daniel when Widmore was young. Widmore knew (going through life) to intercept and recruit Daniel when Daniel got to a certain point in his life. On the other, Daniel never met young Widmore until just now… a disadvantage. I doubt Daniel has any loyalties to old Widmore… but then old Widmore… he already placed Daniel on the island to meet young Widmore… to his advantage.

  466. duke says:

    [quote comment=”310787″][quote comment=”310724″]
    __________________________________________

    I’m going to say it’s because it had not happened in that timeline. Sorry Dan believers, but multiple timelines have to exist in theoretical time travel. Think the past cannot be changed. What if you time traveled to the past with a nuclear device and set it off as soon as you arrived? Change, my friends… and on a seperate timeline from the one where you came from.[/quote]
    —————————————————
    If you were to travel to the past and as much as breathe, you would change the whole future drastically, so much so that next to nothing would be the same. It’s the butterfly effect. you dont need an atomic bomb. Throw a pebble into the past and you wont recognize the future anymore.
    But of course it’s all fiction here on the show, anything goes, and we go with it.[/quote]
    I believe the point is that things did happen in the past, like Dan telling Desmond to find his mom, but we are just seeing them happen so that the storylines and shows connect. I do not remember everyone I have ever had a conversation with in my lifetime but sometime things occur that make you remember. They aren’t necessarily changing the past but tryine to change their futures.

  467. duke says:

    [quote comment=”310943″][quote comment=”310938″]Finally! A fact check! He picked three things, the compass being one of them.
    [/quote]

    I agree that, according to the TRANSCRIPT, John picked three things. However, if you look at the screen, he picks up and puts down the first two things. If you parse the script, it seems like Captain Eyeliner might be asking young John to pick as many things as he likes. And that may INDEED be what he is saying. But on screen, the child CONSIDERS the first two things and then puts them down. It would be different if he picked all three things and held them near him, but I do not believe that to be the case.

    Your point is valid, though, because it could be that he was SUPPOSED to pick the compass and the vial, but when he picks up the knife (probably because he wants it), that “ruins it” in the eyes of Alpert.

    : ) P[/quote]
    He obviously picked the compass, jar of something and the knife. He placed the items right in front of him. He would have put them back in their place if he did not pick them.

  468. duke says:

    [quote comment=”310947″]I just watched that scene here:

    And I’m with PJ – Locke only selects one object, the knife. He appears to be considering the vial and the compass, but while looking at them, he never looks at Richard. Then he picks up the knife, and after a few seconds, he looks at Richard, as if to say “this one.” Then, Richard says, are you sure the knife is yours? etc[/quote]
    I watched the scene again too. He clearly picks the compass and vial of something and places them in front of him. By the look on Richard’s face he is pleased with these selections only when he makes another choice does Richard get upset and leaves. But he CLEARLY picks the compass and jar and Richard is pleased based on his facial expressions. There is no need for Richard to respond to the first two items because they must be correct he only responds when John fails his test. Watch it again and look for Locke to place the items in front of him and Richard’s expressions when he choices correctly and when he doesn’t they clearly change.

  469. LostinSev says:

    Okay! Do you think Locke has now changed the course? We know that young Locke had visions (smokie) and he remembers something. Do you think that now that Locke and Richard had that talk that when Richard goes to see young Locke in 1956, Locke will choose the right item?? Just a thought. The Others and the Losties must be screwing up something while they are time traveling.

    Could Theresa while time traveling got killed or STUCK and Daniel found a way to change something in the past to help Theresa!! Just like when Claire’s mum was in a coma for yrs (?) and all of a sudden awoke sometime after Claire took that flight to LA?

  470. RGS says:

    [/quote]
    I watched the scene again too. He clearly picks the compass and vial of something and places them in front of him. By the look on Richard’s face he is pleased with these selections only when he makes another choice does Richard get upset and leaves. But he CLEARLY picks the compass and jar and Richard is pleased based on his facial expressions. There is no need for Richard to respond to the first two items because they must be correct he only responds when John fails his test. Watch it again and look for Locke to place the items in front of him and Richard’s expressions when he choices correctly and when he doesn’t they clearly change.[/quote]

    I am in the camp that Locke chooses the knife and no other object. He moves the objects but clearly takes ownership of the knife. I actually don’t really see any reaction out of Capt. Eyeliner, til he has to snatch Locke’s knife.

    I can see how folks can see things the way they want to though.

    But if was picking all of those items, why does Capt. Eyeliner stop him at the knife? Why doesn’t he allow Locke to keep picking objects and claiming ownership? Are folks who believe he’s picked the prior two items saying that the one object Locke could NOT pick was the knife?

  471. Amber says:

    This is what im wondering,Daniel doesnt seem like the type to be in love with two women(landy in bed and Charlotte) so is it safe to assume with one of them it has to be a different kind of love, like maybe brother/sister

  472. Tasker says:

    Theory:

    I’ll try to substantiate it by the fact that there is an obvious connection between Faraday and Charlotte, however no real ‘intimacy’ has been shown b/t them… I posit that they are step-siblings.

    Widmore and Ellie are Faraday’s and/or Charlote’s parents. It feels to me that Charles would be their father, possibly different mothers.

    Any outright objections to this?

  473. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311080″]Theory:

    I’ll try to substantiate it by the fact that there is an obvious connection between Faraday and Charlotte, however no real ‘intimacy’ has been shown b/t them… I posit that they are step-siblings.

    Widmore and Ellie are Faraday’s and/or Charlote’s parents. It feels to me that Charles would be their father, possibly different mothers.

    Any outright objections to this?[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    None from me. Several of us have posted similar theories.

  474. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”311020″]I searched for this on the blog but I don’t think anyone has caught it yet…

    Jughead Jones: Forsythe Pendleton “Jughead” Jones III was a regularly featured character in Archie Comics, notable as the lead character in a 1990 cartoon series, Jughead’s Time Police. In the series, Jughead, using a special beanie given by an unknown benefactor, travels through time fixing disturbances in the timeline with the help of one of his own descendants from the 29th century.[/quote]

    that’s funny, also, wasn’t jones the name on the army uniform widmore was wearing…?

  475. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311119″][quote comment=”311020″]I searched for this on the blog but I don’t think anyone has caught it yet…

    Jughead Jones: Forsythe Pendleton “Jughead” Jones III was a regularly featured character in Archie Comics, notable as the lead character in a 1990 cartoon series, Jughead’s Time Police. In the series, Jughead, using a special beanie given by an unknown benefactor, travels through time fixing disturbances in the timeline with the help of one of his own descendants from the 29th century.[/quote]

    that’s funny, also, wasn’t jones the name on the army uniform widmore was wearing…?[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    If Dan was wearing the Jones name tag, that would have sealed the idea!

  476. Skweez says:

    [quote comment=”311076″][/quote]
    I watched the scene again too. He clearly picks the compass and vial of something and places them in front of him. By the look on Richard’s face he is pleased with these selections only when he makes another choice does Richard get upset and leaves. But he CLEARLY picks the compass and jar and Richard is pleased based on his facial expressions. There is no need for Richard to respond to the first two items because they must be correct he only responds when John fails his test. Watch it again and look for Locke to place the items in front of him and Richard’s expressions when he choices correctly and when he doesn’t they clearly change.[/quote]

    I am in the camp that Locke chooses the knife and no other object. He moves the objects but clearly takes ownership of the knife. I actually don’t really see any reaction out of Capt. Eyeliner, til he has to snatch Locke’s knife.

    I can see how folks can see things the way they want to though.

    But if was picking all of those items, why does Capt. Eyeliner stop him at the knife? Why doesn’t he allow Locke to keep picking objects and claiming ownership? Are folks who believe he’s picked the prior two items saying that the one object Locke could NOT pick was the knife?[/quote]
    ********************************************

    I believe that the only item young Locke should not have picked was the knife. It seems to me that the Others/Natives were peaceful folk until outsiders started invading their space.

    Also seeing how Richard waited several years to try and recruit John again, it seems that he was giving him time to “find” his true self.

  477. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”311119″][quote comment=”311020″]I searched for this on the blog but I don’t think anyone has caught it yet…

    Jughead Jones: Forsythe Pendleton “Jughead” Jones III was a regularly featured character in Archie Comics, notable as the lead character in a 1990 cartoon series, Jughead’s Time Police. In the series, Jughead, using a special beanie given by an unknown benefactor, travels through time fixing disturbances in the timeline with the help of one of his own descendants from the 29th century.[/quote]

    that’s funny, also, wasn’t jones the name on the army uniform widmore was wearing…?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    So are you saying that Widmore is the one traveling through time trying to fix things?

  478. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”310698″]So since the bomb is not properly sealed and apparently allows some level of radiation to escape, could this explain why pregnant women are unable to come to full term?
    Has there been radioactive “seepage” that effects the reproductive system of women?[/quote]
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    I like this idea but I think someone would have had to uncover the bomb to cause the problem since Sombody, maiby Ben, said pregnancy wasn’t always a problem. Perhaps the “incident” that Dr. Chang mentions in the orientation film is the radiation getting out and that is when pregnancy became a problem, during dharma reighn.

  479. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”310810″][quote comment=”310809″]Jughead? Did anyone get the same vibe as I did when we first saw the h-bomb hanging from the tower? The vibe that the tower was the EXACT same location as the radio tower that was broadcasting Rousseau’s transmission. The structure next to it and the tower were identical. Not the same material, but oriented the same way… only updated – metal tower… more modern structure. I offer this without having reviewed the ep.[/quote]

    it did look similar, i remember that the radio tower had a room at the bottom that they went into to stop the signal from broadcasting, that’s pretty much all i remember though…

    as far as the bomb being kept at the tempest, wasn’t that where goodwin worked? didn’t juliet treat him for chemical burns, could that possibly have been radiation burns? makes more sense after dan noticing the radiation burns on the “other” guy with the wraps on his hands…[/quote]
    +
    I think Juliette would have known the difference between Chemical and radiation burns.

  480. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”311049″]OK..not taking credit for it because I read it on Lostpedia, but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been discussed here…

    What if Mrs. Hawking’s maiden name was Widmore, as in Ellie and Charles are brother/sister?

    The “conversation” they had seemed like she derided him and he snapped at her.

    YOUNG BLONDE HOSTILE: Outnumbered, eh?
    JONES: Shut up, Ellie.[/quote]
    ++++++
    Best thought yet imho.

  481. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”311054″][quote comment=”311048″]I really like your idea that it is NOT Penny [that] Ben has in mind when he says he is going to kill Widmore’s daughter. That opens up some new possibilities we haven’t really explored yet.[/quote]

    I considered this as well. Widmore’s seed may well be spread far and wide, but Ben did mention Penny by name:

    BEN: I’m here, Charles, to tell you that I’m going to kill your daughter. Penelope, is it? And once she’s gone… once she’s dead… then you’ll understand how I feel. And you’ll wish you hadn’t changed the rules.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Ben also indicated that Widmor had only one daughter. We don’t know, however, if Widmore is her real father. Who might he have kidnaped her from???

  482. Skweez says:

    [quote comment=”311140″][quote comment=”310810″][quote comment=”310809″]Jughead? Did anyone get the same vibe as I did when we first saw the h-bomb hanging from the tower? The vibe that the tower was the EXACT same location as the radio tower that was broadcasting Rousseau’s transmission. The structure next to it and the tower were identical. Not the same material, but oriented the same way… only updated – metal tower… more modern structure. I offer this without having reviewed the ep.[/quote]

    it did look similar, i remember that the radio tower had a room at the bottom that they went into to stop the signal from broadcasting, that’s pretty much all i remember though…

    as far as the bomb being kept at the tempest, wasn’t that where goodwin worked? didn’t juliet treat him for chemical burns, could that possibly have been radiation burns? makes more sense after dan noticing the radiation burns on the “other” guy with the wraps on his hands…[/quote]
    +
    I think Juliette would have known the difference between Chemical and radiation burns.[/quote][quote comment=”310809″]

    Speaking of Juliet, I still don’t trust her. I still think she has some hidden agenda.

  483. Amber says:

    Ok so i was on lostpedia reading stuff and i was looking at the character connections part. and The psycic that Clair sees name is Richard Malkin. Who has a daugther with a near death drowning expierence that Eko comes to investiage the daughters name was CHARLOTTE

  484. Amber says:

    Ok so i looked at her picture and its not the same chalotte that we are dealing with now but she does tell eko that she sees yemi when she is “between places” thats intersting

  485. DocH says:

    I think Juliet would have known the difference between chemical and radiation burns.

    Radiation burns are chemical in nature. Chemicals in your skin/flesh super-heat and interact – think of chemical burns as “un-heated” radiation burns.

  486. LostieLou says:

    Started reading this blog a year ago…new to post. I might be on the wrong thread. If so, let me know. Ever since “The Constant”, I’ve been trying to wrap my head around the time-traveling idea.

    Time is on a thread, like Faraday said. Time is also infinite–we don’t know when it started or when it will end.

    Because time is infinite, it can constantly repeat itself.

    But like Faraday and Dr. Chang said: “There are rules!”. Yes, Locke showed Richard the compass. And, yes, that is the same compass Richard showed 5 year old Locke. But, following the rules, we shouldn’t think that time traveling 2004 Locke encouraged 1952 Richard to visit Baby Locke in the hospital. It’s a super-satisfying idea and it happened. Just not to 2004 Locke.

    Continue to think infinite thread with me.

    I do believe that Ellie is Ms. Hawking and Faraday’s Mom and I have a real problem with the idea of her not recognizing her son (after she gave birth to him) as the man who approached her when she was 20 and told her about his time traveling!

    The infinite thread pulls it all together for me. The infinite time thread remains. Whatever happened in time remains.

    On another note, I haven’t seen any mention of this: Unbeknownst to Desmond, is Penny getting killed off soon? Ben wants to kill Whitmore’s daughter. Desmond and Penny are off to L.A. to hook up with Faraday’s mom, presumably Hawking. Ben is working with Hawking. In season 3, Hawking told Desmond at the jewelery store that he and Penny aren’t supposed to be together.

  487. DocH says:

    Time thread… many theories (real, NOT LOST) suggest that thread is not stretched straight, but can be rolled back next to itself… think center of a golf ball. While the thread never passes through itself, it does repeatedly press up against itself in many places. Advanced physics, quantum and otherwise, suggest that different influences (gravity, EM, exotic matter, etc…) may allow some level of transfer (Hammer’s whispers) between portions of the time thread touching one another. Look into ‘string theory’ for your PhD.

  488. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”311135″][quote comment=”311076″][/quote]
    I watched the scene again too. He clearly picks the compass and vial of something and places them in front of him. By the look on Richard’s face he is pleased with these selections only when he makes another choice does Richard get upset and leaves. But he CLEARLY picks the compass and jar and Richard is pleased based on his facial expressions. There is no need for Richard to respond to the first two items because they must be correct he only responds when John fails his test. Watch it again and look for Locke to place the items in front of him and Richard’s expressions when he choices correctly and when he doesn’t they clearly change.[/quote]

    I am in the camp that Locke chooses the knife and no other object. He moves the objects but clearly takes ownership of the knife. I actually don’t really see any reaction out of Capt. Eyeliner, til he has to snatch Locke’s knife.

    I can see how folks can see things the way they want to though.

    But if was picking all of those items, why does Capt. Eyeliner stop him at the knife? Why doesn’t he allow Locke to keep picking objects and claiming ownership? Are folks who believe he’s picked the prior two items saying that the one object Locke could NOT pick was the knife?[/quote]
    ********************************************

    I believe that the only item young Locke should not have picked was the knife. It seems to me that the Others/Natives were peaceful folk until outsiders started invading their space.

    Also seeing how Richard waited several years to try and recruit John again, it seems that he was giving him time to “find” his true self.[/quote]

    I do have a problem with thinking the Others/Natives are peaceful folks, because if they are peaceful, even if some strangers trespass, they inherently shouldn’t think to kill them with flaming arrows. I don’t buy that they were thinking the Losties were soldiers, because they weren’t dressed as such, didn’t appear to have weapons, and had older women and men in their group.

    Alternatively, if they have no problem taking lives to defend their territory, then choosing to own a knife should indicate that young Locke is ready to fight for what he believes in…protecting the island.

    I am thinking when Alpert goes to visit Locke again later in life, it is the result of another meeting between he and Locke on the island.

  489. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311170″]Started reading this blog a year ago…new to post.

    I do believe that Ellie is Ms. Hawking and Faraday’s Mom and I have a real problem with the idea of her not recognizing her son (after she gave birth to him) as the man who approached her when she was 20 and told her about his time traveling!

    The infinite thread pulls it all together for me. The infinite time thread remains. Whatever happened in time remains.

    On another note, I haven’t seen any mention of this: Unbeknownst to Desmond, is Penny getting killed off soon? Ben wants to kill Whitmore’s daughter. Desmond and Penny are off to L.A. to hook up with Faraday’s mom, presumably Hawking. Ben is working with Hawking. In season 3, Hawking told Desmond at the jewelery store that he and Penny aren’t supposed to be together.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Welcome.

    A couple of counter points. How would Ellie recognize her son if in her time she hadn’t had him yet?

    Also, Ms. Hawking didn’t say that Des and Pen wouldn’t be together. Just that at that point in time Des was supposed to have second thoughts, break Pen’s heart and end up in the race that gets him to the island or ‘every single one of us is dead’. So you may be correct that Pen dies, but not because of what Ms. Hawking told Des.

  490. Hammer says:

    I also think as stated in the past. That Des and Pen end up on the island, get killed and are ‘Adam and Eve’. Jack and Locke become more in concert. Jack and or Locke (who is in touch with ‘black and white’ by the backgammon references) put the stones with the bodies.

  491. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311210″]I also think as stated in the past. That Des and Pen end up on the island, get killed and are ‘Adam and Eve’. Jack and Locke become more in concert. Jack and or Locke (who is in touch with ‘black and white’ by the backgammon references) put the stones with the bodies.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    On the “black and white” theme: I’m starting to get a picture of the opposing forces – the black/white if you will. What is “doomsday” for one side, may or may not be for the other side, and in fact may be the GOAL he/they are working towards. Clearly, our LOSTies are pawns in the overall game. Hard to say who the players are, or even who is REALLY “playing” for whom. Everyone is so connected.
    I’m thinking it may come down in the short run to Ellie and Widmore – on the same side in the past, but on different sides in the present. Alpert doesn’t seem to be on anyone’s side as far as I can see (or Jacob’s? Who’s side is Jacob on?)
    We don’t really know WHICH side is even the “good guys”!! Evil is the flip side of good and it seems that both sides are playing it both ways.

  492. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”311138″][quote comment=”311119″][quote comment=”311020″]I searched for this on the blog but I don’t think anyone has caught it yet…

    Jughead Jones: Forsythe Pendleton “Jughead” Jones III was a regularly featured character in Archie Comics, notable as the lead character in a 1990 cartoon series, Jughead’s Time Police. In the series, Jughead, using a special beanie given by an unknown benefactor, travels through time fixing disturbances in the timeline with the help of one of his own descendants from the 29th century.[/quote]

    that’s funny, also, wasn’t jones the name on the army uniform widmore was wearing…?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    So are you saying that Widmore is the one traveling through time trying to fix things?[/quote]

    **************
    haven’t worked that out yet, but the name “jones” on his clothes seems a little too coincidental to me

  493. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”311274″][quote comment=”311210″]I also think as stated in the past. That Des and Pen end up on the island, get killed and are ‘Adam and Eve’. Jack and Locke become more in concert. Jack and or Locke (who is in touch with ‘black and white’ by the backgammon references) put the stones with the bodies.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    On the “black and white” theme: I’m starting to get a picture of the opposing forces – the black/white if you will. What is “doomsday” for one side, may or may not be for the other side, and in fact may be the GOAL he/they are working towards. Clearly, our LOSTies are pawns in the overall game. Hard to say who the players are, or even who is REALLY “playing” for whom. Everyone is so connected.
    I’m thinking it may come down in the short run to Ellie and Widmore – on the same side in the past, but on different sides in the present. Alpert doesn’t seem to be on anyone’s side as far as I can see (or Jacob’s? Who’s side is Jacob on?)
    We don’t really know WHICH side is even the “good guys”!! Evil is the flip side of good and it seems that both sides are playing it both ways.[/quote]
    ++++++++

    This makes me wonder if Ellie and Widmore are Adam and Eve. This works for me if they are brother and sister as I don’t think Adam and Eve are a couple.

  494. Found says:

    “As the Time Loops Unfold”… I think we will find that Widmore learned of the Losties while he is young Widmore through the time jumps. After leaving the Island, he then engineers all of their fates to be on the plane that he knows Desmond will cause to crash, thus revealing to him the location of the island so that he can again return to take what he thinks is his “rightful ownership”. Because of the paradoxes of time travel, everything that we see as happening in the past to the losties during the time jumps, would all ready have happened in the present and be in the current memories of the people they interacted with during the jumps. Widmore has been waiting his whole life for time to catch up to were he was going to be able to finally be able to regain control of the island. Bacause of the time jumps Jacob knew of the future plane crash as well, and that is why Ben wanted the lists of the survivors to see if this was the event they were waiting for, because Jacob knew who the passengers would be and who the important ones were, because of the time jumps, and also knew that it would trigger all of the events that will bring the return of Widmore and the danger that brings to the island. Ben only knew what jacob revealed to him and that is why he felt threatened by Locke. Ben finally accepts Locke after he realizes what “must be done ” to save the Island. This also explains why Desmond was aloud to remain in the Hatch punching in the numbers… because it WAS his destiny, and the future did depend on it. (This is just some quick thoughts, I will be developing it further…)

  495. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”311297″]”As the Time Loops Unfold”… I think we will find that Widmore learned of the Losties while he is young Widmore through the time jumps. After leaving the Island, he then engineers all of their fates to be on the plane that he knows Desmond will cause to crash, thus revealing to him the location of the island so that he can again return to take what he thinks is his “rightful ownership”. Because of the paradoxes of time travel, everything that we see as happening in the past to the losties during the time jumps, would all ready have happened in the present and be in the current memories of the people they interacted with during the jumps. Widmore has been waiting his whole life for time to catch up to were he was going to be able to finally be able to regain control of the island. Bacause of the time jumps Jacob knew of the future plane crash as well, and that is why Ben wanted the lists of the survivors to see if this was the event they were waiting for, because Jacob knew who the passengers would be and who the important ones were, because of the time jumps, and also knew that it would trigger all of the events that will bring the return of Widmore and the danger that brings to the island. Ben only knew what jacob revealed to him and that is why he felt threatened by Locke. Ben finally accepts Locke after he realizes what “must be done ” to save the Island. This also explains why Desmond was aloud to remain in the Hatch punching in the numbers… because it WAS his destiny, and the future did depend on it. (This is just some quick thoughts, I will be developing it further…)[/quote]

    As good as anything, if not better, than what I’ve read so far. Nice.

  496. Circus Mom says:

    Freaky thought just hit me. Montand lost his hand. So did Dr. Chang, who is also Dr. Marvin Candle. Perhaps they are one and the same?

  497. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”311326″]Freaky thought just hit me. Montand lost his hand. So did Dr. Chang, who is also Dr. Marvin Candle. Perhaps they are one and the same?[/quote]

    i always assumed that he was french for one, and that he lost his arm due to the unstable dynamite on the black rock…but i guess at this point anything is possible! maybe we will get to see more of rousseau’s story and find out what really happened!

  498. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311326″]Freaky thought just hit me. Montand lost his hand. So did Dr. Chang, who is also Dr. Marvin Candle. Perhaps they are one and the same?[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Well, so far we know him as Dr. Halliwax, Dr. Pierre Change, Dr. Marvin Candle, Dr. Mark Wickman,so why not also Montand? Makes sense to me.

  499. Rita says:

    I’ve been thinking about the Others’ “leaders”. So far, everyone we have seen is/was/might be a leader is still involved in some capasity. Bear with me here, but since it seems that no one ever actually “dies”, then leaders are raised up from young children, and the former leader steps aside. Alpert seems to be the leader during the 1954 time period. We know that Ben is/was the leader since the purge. We are speculating that Widmore and/or Christian Shepherd have been leaders. Possibly also Daniel and/or Ms. Hawkings. Now it appears that Locke is a/the leader. If leaders stepping aside for the new leader has been a peaceful transition of power in the past, it seems that it hasn’t always worked out that way. If Widmore was a leader, then he didn’t want to give up his power, and is fighting “the system” so to speak, in order to get it back. Not sure where I am going with this, just an observation. Maybe Jacob then, isn’t ONE person, but rather a collective consciousness from over time of ALL the former leaders. Help me out here!

  500. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”311338″]I’ve been thinking about the Others’ “leaders”. So far, everyone we have seen is/was/might be a leader is still involved in some capasity. Bear with me here, but since it seems that no one ever actually “dies”, then leaders are raised up from young children, and the former leader steps aside. Alpert seems to be the leader during the 1954 time period. We know that Ben is/was the leader since the purge. We are speculating that Widmore and/or Christian Shepherd have been leaders. Possibly also Daniel and/or Ms. Hawkings. Now it appears that Locke is a/the leader. If leaders stepping aside for the new leader has been a peaceful transition of power in the past, it seems that it hasn’t always worked out that way. If Widmore was a leader, then he didn’t want to give up his power, and is fighting “the system” so to speak, in order to get it back. Not sure where I am going with this, just an observation. Maybe Jacob then, isn’t ONE person, but rather a collective consciousness from over time of ALL the former leaders. Help me out here![/quote]

    That sounds logical.

    Maybe babies conceived on the island have NEVER been born. Leaders are chosen as young children. That could be why Ben was recruited from the DI, why Alex was kidnapped, why Emma and Zach were taken, why Walt was taken, why Claire was kidnapped, why Alpert had to look off island for Locke, and why there is interest in Aaron (and perhaps Ji Yeon).

    But why the REST of the O6? I was thinking that there are several groups within the what we call the Others. Alpert leads the Whisperers, who may be former leaders and other not-dead-but-not-alive redshirts. Ben led the Others, like Tom, Juliet, Ethan, Goodwin, etc. Of that group, only Juliet is left. (And Juliet’s loyalties are questionable at best.) Ben’s group of Others needs to be replenished. Maybe the O6, plus Locke have to go back just to fill the seats.

    Maybe needing seat fillers is why the Black Rock arrived, why Yemi’s plane crashed (though it would appear that didn’t work since all perished), why Desmond’s boat shipwrecked, and why O815 crashed.

    Just thinking out loud.

    : ) P

  501. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”311047″][quote comment=”311043″]By the way…which one of our Losties is going to splice the Swan Orientation film, put it in a bible and bring it to the Arrow so Mr. Eko can find it?[/quote]

    Can you explain that further? I seem to have forgotten about that. What do you think Ecko and Yemi’s role is in all of this. And how did Yemi’s plane crash on the island?

    WHO is still sending Dharma supplies and food to the island if Widmore didn’t know where it was for so long?[/quote]
    ===============
    Someone took the original Swan Orientation video, spliced part of it out and put it in a bible in The Arrow. Eko found it in S2.

    So now that we know people are traveling through time, any thoughts on who would have done that?

  502. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”311337″][quote comment=”311326″]Freaky thought just hit me. Montand lost his hand. So did Dr. Chang, who is also Dr. Marvin Candle. Perhaps they are one and the same?[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Well, so far we know him as Dr. Halliwax, Dr. Pierre Change, Dr. Marvin Candle, Dr. Mark Wickman,so why not also Montand? Makes sense to me.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Unless Montand has something to do with ‘candles’ in another language, I’m not buying it. :) I do think Widmore had Chang’s hand cut off later on, like he wanted to do to Juliet.

    Along the Rousseau line. Her message was playing on a loop for 16 years (per Sayid, The Pilot).

    In Cabin Fever, Locke’s dream with Horace Goodspeed stated “I’ve been dead for 12 years”.

    If Danielle’s message started in 1988 and Horace died in the purge in 1992…..

    Why didn’t Danielle die too?

  503. Trixanna says:

    Oh my stars! It has taken me all day to read through the 500+ posts. Whew! My mind is spinning so fast with so much information that I can’t even begin to remember what I wanted to say several hours ago. Just a few comments:

    1. Daniel and Charlotte may be related but I doubt it. Some have mentioned that they seem a little distant but it could just be that his love isn’t returned by her.

    2. Ever since Juliette was introduced into the show, I have gone back and forth on whether or not she is good or bad. I finally decided that she was okay but after this week, I think she is sneaky and mean. I don’t trust her for a second.

    3. For a bomb that is extremely dangerous, why is it on some rickety old wooden frame? It seems like they would have kept that a little more safe.

    4. This one is for PJ. I am with you on Charlie being alive. We WILL see him again. Hold on to the hope!

    5. You people are amazing! If I didn’t have my sister (you know who you are ;-) ) here to discuss LOST with, my nose would have bled a long time ago.

  504. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”311327″]i guess at this point anything is possible! maybe we will get to see more of rousseau’s story and find out what really happened![/quote]

    In a podcast, D&C alluded to the fact that we will see more about Rousseau, but with possibly (one of their favorite words! LOL) another actress portraying her. That sounds like flashback (or time travel) to me!

    : ) P

  505. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311297″]”As the Time Loops Unfold”… I think we will find that Widmore learned of the Losties while he is young Widmore through the time jumps. After leaving the Island, he then engineers all of their fates to be on the plane that he knows Desmond will cause to crash, thus revealing to him the location of the island so that he can again return to take what he thinks is his “rightful ownership”. Because of the paradoxes of time travel, everything that we see as happening in the past to the losties during the time jumps, would all ready have happened in the present and be in the current memories of the people they interacted with during the jumps. Widmore has been waiting his whole life for time to catch up to were he was going to be able to finally be able to regain control of the island. Bacause of the time jumps Jacob knew of the future plane crash as well, and that is why Ben wanted the lists of the survivors to see if this was the event they were waiting for, because Jacob knew who the passengers would be and who the important ones were, because of the time jumps, and also knew that it would trigger all of the events that will bring the return of Widmore and the danger that brings to the island. Ben only knew what jacob revealed to him and that is why he felt threatened by Locke. Ben finally accepts Locke after he realizes what “must be done ” to save the Island. This also explains why Desmond was aloud to remain in the Hatch punching in the numbers… because it WAS his destiny, and the future did depend on it. (This is just some quick thoughts, I will be developing it further…)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Good stuff. May even explain why Jack ‘isn’t even on the list’, if Jacob’s list ends up being the folks that end up time traveling. We know Jack, Kate and Sayid are not on Jacob’s list.

  506. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311501″][quote comment=”311297″]”As the Time Loops Unfold”… I think we will find that Widmore learned of the Losties while he is young Widmore through the time jumps. After leaving the Island, he then engineers all of their fates to be on the plane that he knows Desmond will cause to crash, thus revealing to him the location of the island so that he can again return to take what he thinks is his “rightful ownership”. Because of the paradoxes of time travel, everything that we see as happening in the past to the losties during the time jumps, would all ready have happened in the present and be in the current memories of the people they interacted with during the jumps. Widmore has been waiting his whole life for time to catch up to were he was going to be able to finally be able to regain control of the island. Bacause of the time jumps Jacob knew of the future plane crash as well, and that is why Ben wanted the lists of the survivors to see if this was the event they were waiting for, because Jacob knew who the passengers would be and who the important ones were, because of the time jumps, and also knew that it would trigger all of the events that will bring the return of Widmore and the danger that brings to the island. Ben only knew what jacob revealed to him and that is why he felt threatened by Locke. Ben finally accepts Locke after he realizes what “must be done ” to save the Island. This also explains why Desmond was aloud to remain in the Hatch punching in the numbers… because it WAS his destiny, and the future did depend on it. (This is just some quick thoughts, I will be developing it further…)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Good stuff. May even explain why Jack ‘isn’t even on the list’, if Jacob’s list ends up being the folks that end up time traveling. We know Jack, Kate and Sayid are not on Jacob’s list.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    This is the most reasonable explanation of “the lists” I have seen so far. We always wondered why certain people were, or weren’t, on “the list”. Which brings me to Cindy (the stewardess): she seems pretty cozy in the Others camp now. Was she a plant, or a new recruit? She doesn’t seem to be at all torn in her loyalties.

  507. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”311297″]I think we will find that Widmore learned of the Losties while he is young Widmore through the time jumps. After leaving the Island, he then engineers all of their fates to be on the plane that he knows Desmond will cause to crash, thus revealing to him the location of the island so that he can again return to take what he thinks is his “rightful ownership”. [/quote]

    My only question here is that if he KNEW that Desmond was going to bring down O815, why didn’t he just arrange to be aboard?

    : ) P

  508. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311508″][quote comment=”311297″]I think we will find that Widmore learned of the Losties while he is young Widmore through the time jumps. After leaving the Island, he then engineers all of their fates to be on the plane that he knows Desmond will cause to crash, thus revealing to him the location of the island so that he can again return to take what he thinks is his “rightful ownership”. [/quote]

    My only question here is that if he KNEW that Desmond was going to bring down O815, why didn’t he just arrange to be aboard?

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I guess we need to find out if Ben was telling the truth about not being able to go back if you turn the wheel. If he is, and CW turned the wheel, maybe it’s more complex than being on the plane.

  509. Found says:

    Widmore knows the “rules” of time travel. He wasn’t on the plane the first time. He could not predict his new fate, or guarantee that he would survive the crash. Remember “Fate is a fickle Bitch”.

  510. ShelbyDee says:

    Just had a thought on the Yemi plane crash. If the island is moving through time and space (not the survivors) then during these jumps it could have moved to wherever it could have “intercepted” Yemi’s plane. When they showed Mrs. Hawking doing her calculations in the church basement, she appeared to be tracking multiple coordinates (there were lots of star markers on the floor map and the computer screen). I’m wondering now – if all of the survivors are in Los Angeles and they only have a couple of days, will the island appear near California? I’ve been assuming they would have to make some kind of hypertime/space jump to get back. Maybe not.

    Does anybody else have a suspicion that Sun is not really after Ben, but after Widmore and she is just setting him up? Can someone remind me why she would blame Ben for her husband’s death? I may be on the wrong thread for that, but it leads to my next speculation. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? It leaves some interesting questions about the protection the island might give to its past leaders. And maybe allude to a collective as suggested above for Jacob. If so, Sun isn’t going to get revenge by killing either one of them.

  511. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311530″]Just had a thought on the Yemi plane crash. If the island is moving through time and space (not the survivors) then during these jumps it could have moved to wherever it could have “intercepted” Yemi’s plane. When they showed Mrs. Hawking doing her calculations in the church basement, she appeared to be tracking multiple coordinates (there were lots of star markers on the floor map and the computer screen). I’m wondering now – if all of the survivors are in Los Angeles and they only have a couple of days, will the island appear near California? I’ve been assuming they would have to make some kind of hypertime/space jump to get back. Maybe not.

    Does anybody else have a suspicion that Sun is not really after Ben, but after Widmore and she is just setting him up? Can someone remind me why she would blame Ben for her husband’s death? I may be on the wrong thread for that, but it leads to my next speculation. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? It leaves some interesting questions about the protection the island might give to its past leaders. And maybe allude to a collective as suggested above for Jacob. If so, Sun isn’t going to get revenge by killing either one of them.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I haven’t decided if I believe that the island is still moving. My guess is that here calculations where wrong, and when she fianlly got it right, they are down to 70 hours. The Losties are still skipping in time, but I think maybe the island only ‘moved’ once.

  512. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311535″][quote comment=”311530″]Just had a thought on the Yemi plane crash. If the island is moving through time and space (not the survivors) then during these jumps it could have moved to wherever it could have “intercepted” Yemi’s plane. When they showed Mrs. Hawking doing her calculations in the church basement, she appeared to be tracking multiple coordinates (there were lots of star markers on the floor map and the computer screen). I’m wondering now – if all of the survivors are in Los Angeles and they only have a couple of days, will the island appear near California? I’ve been assuming they would have to make some kind of hypertime/space jump to get back. Maybe not.

    Does anybody else have a suspicion that Sun is not really after Ben, but after Widmore and she is just setting him up? Can someone remind me why she would blame Ben for her husband’s death? I may be on the wrong thread for that, but it leads to my next speculation. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? It leaves some interesting questions about the protection the island might give to its past leaders. And maybe allude to a collective as suggested above for Jacob. If so, Sun isn’t going to get revenge by killing either one of them.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I haven’t decided if I believe that the island is still moving. My guess is that here calculations where wrong, and when she fianlly got it right, they are down to 70 hours. The Losties are still skipping in time, but I think maybe the island only ‘moved’ once.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I guess I’m with you thinking the island itself only moved once, and the PEOPLE keep skipping in time. Interesting that the O6ers are now all together in one place – convenient for any plan to get them all to go back. However, what about Ji? Or Walt? Or for that matter, Frank? Desmond and Penny are on their way!

  513. elaine says:

    WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO SUN’S BABY? IF SHE TAKES THE BABY wILL THAT THROW OFF THE EQUATION . tHERE WILL BE SEVEN INSTEAD OF 6, WILL PENNY GO WITH DESMOND? THEY HAVE A BABY,TOO.

  514. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311626″]WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO SUN’S BABY? IF SHE TAKES THE BABY wILL THAT THROW OFF THE EQUATION . tHERE WILL BE SEVEN INSTEAD OF 6, WILL PENNY GO WITH DESMOND? THEY HAVE A BABY,TOO.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Well, I don’t remember anyone saying that SIX need to go back, just “You all have to go back, including Locke” (my paraphrase – anyone have an exact transcript?). We all assumed that meant the 6, but could actually include more people.

  515. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311626″]WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO SUN’S BABY? IF SHE TAKES THE BABY wILL THAT THROW OFF THE EQUATION . tHERE WILL BE SEVEN INSTEAD OF 6, WILL PENNY GO WITH DESMOND? THEY HAVE A BABY,TOO.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I’M, NOT SURE THAT THE…..sorry that was ‘loud’ :). I’m not sure that the amount of people coming back is the issue so much as the people that left are now ‘time separated’ from the group and have to go back. I think going ‘back’ isn’t just to the island, but they must go ‘back’ to the time they left…..maybe.

  516. gmta leah says:

    just this minute finished watching jughead!better late then never!
    heres a few of my observations …. 1.the girl in the bed is charlotte.2. The janitor at faradays lab said faraday was researching travelling ‘back’ in time ,not time travel.3.Young widmore is sent away from the island by Alpert for breaking the other soldiers neck whilst escaping capture.4.The H. bomb was suspended over a hatch when faraday went to look at it.5.Why did the soldier girl say to faraday ‘you just cant keep away can you’but then later when she had a gun on him ,asked him who he was?.6.latin would have been the language of the black rock crew?.7.the girl soldier is familiar but i dont think she is faradays mom or widmores concubine…i think she s familiar to faraday for other reasons. And finally here s my theory..The island losties are ‘students’ in a history class. ..a giant ‘history book ‘if you will. the pages of the book are turning but the losties are staying still,each chapter is a different period in the islands history,every time there s a flash, a different chapter.What they are seeing is the events that lead up to why they are there. and for what reason.
    Obviously,now richard has spoken to lock ,when he presents him with his choice of items in the future ,lock will pick the compass.Another point is , if des had not got off the island on the helecopter ,would he have been with sawyer juliet and daniel knocking on his own hatch front door?? which makes me think that charlotte is sick because there is another one of her on the island at the same time,like the dual rabbit senario in the orientation film

  517. gmta leah says:

    I haven’t decided if I believe that the island is still moving. My guess is that here calculations where wrong, and when she fianlly got it right, they are down to 70 hours. The Losties are still skipping in time, but I think maybe the island only ‘moved’ once.
    /////////////////////////////////////////
    its been debated whether or not 70 hours real time is longer on the island

  518. gmta leah says:

    can any one tell me if sun has been in anyone elses back stories ? even in the background ?any connection at all with any one else ?

  519. gmta leah says:

    Who is montand

  520. Rita says:

    from LOSTpedia:
    Montand was mentioned briefly by Danielle when they were entering the Dark Territory on the way to the Black Rock: “This is where Montand lost his arm.” (“Exodus, Part 1″)
    Hope that helps!

  521. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311635″]can any one tell me if sun has been in anyone elses back stories ? even in the background ?any connection at all with any one else ?[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Also from LOSTpedia:
    Sun was the fifth character to ever have a flashback and the fifth to have a flashforward. Sun’s episode count is 62, as of “The Lie” Out of her 9 centric episodes, 6 of them contained at least one flashback/flashforward from at least one other character, making her the character with the most multi/shared centric episodes.
    I don’t know WHICH episodes Sun was in for other characters, but LOSTpedia says she was in 6 of them for other characters (maybe just Jin’s – not sure). Anyway, hope this answers at least part of your question.

  522. CLM says:

    A few things I don’t think have been mentioned:

    -Two observations:
    1) Alpert carries the memory of John Locke visiting him in 1954 (we know this because he visits baby Locke, child Locke, etc…)
    2) Desmond does NOT carry the memory of Daniel visiting him – he instead remembers it when it happens (I believe someone described it as ‘photoshopping’ above – which I like btw :) )

    My first question is why is their experience of people time traveling into their lives different AND which experience does Widmore have? Has he remembered Locke all this time? Or did he just wake up one morning like Desmond with the memory of John Locke?

    My second question is what happens when the flash goes off? When John is talking to Alpert and the light goes off and they time travel, what does Alpert see on his end?

  523. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”311649″]A few things I don’t think have been mentioned:

    -Two observations:
    1) Alpert carries the memory of John Locke visiting him in 1954 (we know this because he visits baby Locke, child Locke, etc…)
    2) Desmond does NOT carry the memory of Daniel visiting him – he instead remembers it when it happens (I believe someone described it as ‘photoshopping’ above – which I like btw :) )

    My first question is why is their experience of people time traveling into their lives different AND which experience does Widmore have? Has he remembered Locke all this time? Or did he just wake up one morning like Desmond with the memory of John Locke?

    i think because john locke visited alpert . thats why alpert has the memory and des visited daniel thats why daniel has the memory.alpert and daniel were both living in real time when they were visited from the future.and as far as daniel talking to des at the hatch door ,des would have no memory of visiting daniel at oxford because it hadnt happened then.

  524. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311631″]j5.Why did the soldier girl say to faraday ‘you just cant keep away can you’but then later when she had a gun on him ,asked him who he was?.[/quote]
    That was just disception. It was made to look like she saw him before, but actually she just assumed he was this the folks they defeated that brought the jughead.

  525. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”311530″]Just had a thought on the Yemi plane crash. If the island is moving through time and space (not the survivors) then during these jumps it could have moved to wherever it could have “intercepted” Yemi’s plane. When they showed Mrs. Hawking doing her calculations in the church basement, she appeared to be tracking multiple coordinates (there were lots of star markers on the floor map and the computer screen).

    Does anybody else have a suspicion that Sun is not really after Ben, but after Widmore and she is just setting him up? Can someone remind me why she would blame Ben for her husband’s death? I may be on the wrong thread for that, but it leads to my next speculation. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? It leaves some interesting questions about the protection the island might give to its past leaders. And maybe allude to a collective as suggested above for Jacob. If so, Sun isn’t going to get revenge by killing either one of them.[/quote]

    I’m with you on the island moving through time and space. When the island moved the first time there was a big flash and the accompanying noise. The same thing occurs with each jump, at least that would be consistent with what we’ve been shown.

    Ben can be a source of blame for a variety of reasons. He wouldn’t let them off the island, he wouldn’t give himself up, forcing Wimdore’s mercs to kill folks standing in their way, are the main two I can think of, off the top of my head. This assumes that at some point (off tv camera) information is shared with Sun about what Ben has done.

    I also interpreted Ben’s statement to mean that Ben couldn’t do kill him, only because it seems the “island” makes the decision as to when someone can die.

  526. gmta leah says:

    To CLM i think because john locke visited alpert . thats why alpert has the memory and des visited daniel thats why daniel has the memory.alpert and daniel were both living in real time when they were visited from the future.and as far as daniel talking to des at the hatch door ,des would have no memory of visiting daniel at oxford because it hadnt happened then.

  527. ShelbyDee says:

    Thanks RGS. If that’s the crux of the Sun/Ben acrimony then it seems weak. There is a more direct blame line to Widmore that Sun has first knowledge of. I’m going to hold on to my skepticism of Sun targeting Ben. In the meantime, I want her to reunite with Jin before she does something unforgivable Michael-style. (I’m way too emotionally invested in these characters!!) I’m going to let my speculation rest.

    And I’m convinced the island, not the people are moving. It’s just too different from the way Des moved in The Constant. Plus it explains things like the Black Rock and the plane. The island could also swing by and pick up our survivors outside LA! I’m not sure what difference it makes really, people or island, but it’s one of those things that is looping in my head. I think I’ll give that one a rest too!

  528. duke says:

    [quote comment=”311631″]just this minute finished watching jughead!better late then never!
    heres a few of my observations …. 1.the girl in the bed is charlotte.2. The janitor at faradays lab said faraday was researching travelling ‘back’ in time ,not time travel.3.Young widmore is sent away from the island by Alpert for breaking the other soldiers neck whilst escaping capture.4.The H. bomb was suspended over a hatch when faraday went to look at it.5.Why did the soldier girl say to faraday ‘you just cant keep away can you’but then later when she had a gun on him ,asked him who he was?.6.latin would have been the language of the black rock crew?.7.the girl soldier is familiar but i dont think she is faradays mom or widmores concubine…i think she s familiar to faraday for other reasons. And finally here s my theory..The island losties are ‘students’ in a history class. ..a giant ‘history book ‘if you will. the pages of the book are turning but the losties are staying still,each chapter is a different period in the islands history,every time there s a flash, a different chapter.What they are seeing is the events that lead up to why they are there. and for what reason.
    Obviously,now richard has spoken to lock ,when he presents him with his choice of items in the future ,lock will pick the compass.Another point is , if des had not got off the island on the helecopter ,would he have been with sawyer juliet and daniel knocking on his own hatch front door?? which makes me think that charlotte is sick because there is another one of her on the island at the same time,like the dual rabbit senario in the orientation film[/quote]
    The girl in the bed is OBVIOUSLY not Charlotte. Also, the hatches were not even built in 1954, as far as we know, the Dharma initiative built them sometime in the 1970’s.

  529. duke says:

    [quote comment=”311649″]A few things I don’t think have been mentioned:

    -Two observations:
    1) Alpert carries the memory of John Locke visiting him in 1954 (we know this because he visits baby Locke, child Locke, etc…)
    2) Desmond does NOT carry the memory of Daniel visiting him – he instead remembers it when it happens (I believe someone described it as ‘photoshopping’ above – which I like btw :) )

    My first question is why is their experience of people time traveling into their lives different AND which experience does Widmore have? Has he remembered Locke all this time? Or did he just wake up one morning like Desmond with the memory of John Locke?

    My second question is what happens when the flash goes off? When John is talking to Alpert and the light goes off and they time travel, what does Alpert see on his end?[/quote]
    Widmore probably doesn’t remember Locke at this point. He has been off the island for a long time. He may remember him if he makes it back to the island and sees him again but at this point why would he rember him. He wasn’t with alpert during his and locke’s conversation.

  530. roses12 says:

    just thinking about the cabin appearing and disappearing and horace’s nose bleed-does anyone think that the cabin is time shifting? which would explain why it keeps appearing to different people at different locations. Charlotte’s nose bleed made me think there was a link with Horace.

  531. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”311899″]just thinking about the cabin appearing and disappearing and horace’s nose bleed-does anyone think that the cabin is time shifting? which would explain why it keeps appearing to different people at different locations. Charlotte’s nose bleed made me think there was a link with Horace.[/quote]
    ++++++
    I believe Horace got his nose bleed when he was poisoned by Ben, not from time skipping.

    But…you may still have a point about the cabin as it went missing when Locke attempted a second visit, but reappeared upon a successful second visit.

  532. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”311882″] Widmore probably doesn’t remember Locke at this point. He has been off the island for a long time. He may remember him if he makes it back to the island and sees him again but at this point why would he rember him. He wasn’t with alpert during his and locke’s conversation.[/quote]

    I guess it would depend on what happens when the flashes occur, to the folks not affected. Locke did come out of nowhere and shoot down some of his men (where did Locke get the gun to shoot the men anyway) throw a knife into the heart of another.

    Then, much to his disbelief, Locke tracked him to the camp, which might have proved that he knew the island better than even he, and came busting in to see Alpert, even confirming Widmore’s full name…then to top it all off, he pulls an “Anything’s possible in the world of magic” Doug Henning disappearring act into thin air.

  533. roses12 says:

    [quote comment=”311900″][quote comment=”311899″]Charlotte’s nose bleed made me think there was a link with Horace.[/quote]
    ++++++
    I believe Horace got his nose bleed when he was poisoned by Ben, not from time skipping.

    But…you may still have a point about the cabin as it went missing when Locke attempted a second visit, but reappeared upon a successful second visit.[/quote]

    yes thats true cheers.

    following that train of thought – all four leaders: jacob ?; richard (crash time), ben(06 time), locke(fluid) are now existing in separate times – why? hmm

  534. roses12 says:

    [quote comment=”311901″]Locke did come out of nowhere and shoot down some of his men (where did Locke get the gun to shoot the men anyway) throw a knife into the heart of another.
    [/quote]

    locke got the gun in “the lie” when he saved Sawyer & Juliet

    [i]lostepedia: Later at night, after another time shift, Locke encountered Sawyer & Juliet who were being attacked by “Jones” and his men. Locke attacked the men, knocking two of them out with rocks, and killing one with his knife. He took his knife out of the man and said “James. Juliet. Nice to see you.” (“The Lie”) [/i]

    so reckon gun belonged to “Jones” and his men.

  535. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”311901″]Locke did come out of nowhere and shoot down some of his men (where did Locke get the gun to shoot the men anyway) throw a knife into the heart of another.[/quote]

    I believe that Locke just threw rocks in his first couple of attempts to thwart the attackers. He finished with the knife, yes, but I don’t believe he had a gun.

    : ) P

  536. Mia says:

    [quote comment=”311530…. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? …..

    This leads to my question……
    Has anyone that has left the island ever died? We know that Michael and Jack have tried but couldn’t…

    I guess Locke (as Jeremy Bentham) did but was that really “off” the island?

  537. RGS says:

    Thanks PJ and roses. I didn’t realize “Nolan Ryan” was throwing rocks. I thought he shot them, now I have to watch that scene again (not doubting your accounts).

  538. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”311880″]
    And I’m convinced the island, not the people are moving. It’s just too different from the way Des moved in The Constant. Plus it explains things like the Black Rock and the plane. The island could also swing by and pick up our survivors outside LA! I’m not sure what difference it makes really, people or island, but it’s one of those things that is looping in my head. I think I’ll give that one a rest too![/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Not so sure the people aren’t moving too. If ONLY the island were moving, I don’t know how we would explain why EVERYONE on the island doesn’t move as well – However since we see our heros disappear and reappear without the whole Other crowd, we have to believe that at least in those cases, the people were moving independantly of the island.

  539. ShelbyDee says:

    Mia in Comment 536- I don’t think “Jeremy Bentham” is really dead and that’s why it’s important his body goes with them. (Did anyone else have flashes of the spider bite/bury the people alive episode?) There was a scene with Ben taking a wrapped box out of a hotel air vent and quickly hiding it in some luggage. I’m thinkin the box has something to do with bringing Locke back.

    So you may be on to something. . .

  540. duke says:

    [quote comment=”311907″][quote comment=”311530…. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? …..

    This leads to my question……
    Has anyone that has left the island ever died? We know that Michael and Jack have tried but couldn’t…

    I guess Locke (as Jeremy Bentham) did but was that really “off” the island?[/quote]
    Technically, Jack never tried to kill himself. He got interrupted by the car crash when he was on the bridge. So at this point we do not know if he can die or not.

  541. Newbie says:

    Hello all! I’m relatively new here. And I say relatively because everything is relative when it comes to LOST. I’m confused about something and need some enlightenment: Its about not being able to change the course of events that take place when travelling back in time: When the islanders suddenly shifted to the 1950s and then were attacked by the flaming arrows that killed Frobert, wouldn’t that be a significant alteration of the future, since now Frobert wont be alive in 2004. But he was alive in 2004! How can you course-correct that. Will something else happen along the time-hop-skip-and-jumpathon that will change the course of events so that Frobert manages to stay alive? Mind is CONFUSED! Help!

  542. DocH says:

    [quote]
    I believe that Locke just threw rocks in his first couple of attempts to thwart the attackers. He finished with the knife, yes, but I don’t believe he had a gun.
    [/quote]
    True. Juliet is getting ready to lose her hand to a machete. That guy gets a big rock in the kisser. Young Widmore gets the same. Juliet goes for the 30cal rifle. James starts to pound somebodies face. Machete guy goes after James and then gets the flying knife in the back from Locke. Juliet never fires.

    Naomi got a knife Locke in the back too. Locke had all those knives on the plane. Maybe Jeremy Bentham gave the OA6 the proverbial ‘knife in the back’.

  543. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”312035″]Hello all! I’m relatively new here. And I say relatively because everything is relative when it comes to LOST. I’m confused about something and need some enlightenment: Its about not being able to change the course of events that take place when travelling back in time: When the islanders suddenly shifted to the 1950s and then were attacked by the flaming arrows that killed Frobert, wouldn’t that be a significant alteration of the future, since now Frobert wont be alive in 2004. But he was alive in 2004! How can you course-correct that. Will something else happen along the time-hop-skip-and-jumpathon that will change the course of events so that Frobert manages to stay alive? Mind is CONFUSED! Help![/quote]

    Yikes! I don’t think we’re supposed to remember his death, or any of the other redshirts that caught a hot one in that scene. This is one of those posts that D&C will try to sweep under the rug or chalk up to island mystery.

  544. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”311899″]just thinking about the cabin appearing and disappearing and horace’s nose bleed-does anyone think that the cabin is time shifting? which would explain why it keeps appearing to different people at different locations. Charlotte’s nose bleed made me think there was a link with Horace.[/quote]
    ____
    I thought Horace had the nosebleed because he died with the poison gas in the purge?

  545. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”311900″][quote comment=”311899″]just thinking about the cabin appearing and disappearing and horace’s nose bleed-does anyone think that the cabin is time shifting? which would explain why it keeps appearing to different people at different locations. Charlotte’s nose bleed made me think there was a link with Horace.[/quote]
    ++++++
    I believe Horace got his nose bleed when he was poisoned by Ben, not from time skipping.

    But…you may still have a point about the cabin as it went missing when Locke attempted a second visit, but reappeared upon a successful second visit.[/quote]
    ___
    Oops – should have read down a few more before I replied. Something else just came to mind: Wasn’t there something special about the blueprints for the cabin he was building? I do think that that has something to do with how the cabin moves…or maybe it’s not moving? One question I have – is Claire still chilling in the cabin with her dad/Jacob? No one has mentioned her yet…not even when Daniel asked if everyone was accounted for…is Locke the only one who knows where she is?

  546. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”311907″][quote comment=”311530…. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? …..

    This leads to my question……
    Has anyone that has left the island ever died? We know that Michael and Jack have tried but couldn’t…

    I guess Locke (as Jeremy Bentham) did but was that really “off” the island?[/quote]
    ____
    Is Michael dead? Wasn’t he in the explosive room on the freighter when it ignited? Are we to believe that he survived that?

  547. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”312035″]When the islanders suddenly shifted to the 1950s and then were attacked by the flaming arrows that killed Frobert, wouldn’t that be a significant alteration of the future, since now Frobert wont be alive in 2004.[/quote]

    Frogurt, and all the redshirts, WERE alive in early 2005, yes. But they died. It just HAPPENS that they died in a different “time zone” so to speak. They didn’t return to THEIR lives in 1950 and die, their 2005 selves went to a time before they existed.

    I was working on an encyclopedia analogy to help figure out the time travel issues when Rita developed (pun intended) the photoshop analogy. Since that was such a GREAT analogy, I put mine away. I will return to that analogy because it makes the dying in a different “time zone” easier to explain.

    Okay, so think of the history of the island as an encyclopedia set in a font in a thick book. Everything that happened in linear fashion is listed in this book.

    When the LOSTies traveled back the first time, we go in and handwrite the things they did in the margin on the page in the time they landed. Same goes for the next time they land – we write whatever happens in the margin. It doesn’t CHANGE history, but what they did must be noted.

    So we get to the most recent jump where the flaming arrows fly through the sky. We’re madly writing this information in the margins of our encyclopedia. When the redshirts die, we include that. But writing in the margins does NOT CHANGE what is typewritten in the encyclopedia already. Frogurt and the redshirts existed in 2005. Then they died.

    If Sawyer, Juliet et al travel to late 2004, they might encounter the redshirts. If they travel to a week AFTER the freighter exploded, they will not.

    There will have to be a footnote in early 2005, which explains that the redshirts perished while time traveling.

    Hope this makes sense,

    : ) P

  548. Miraks says:

    [quote comment=”312118″]

    Frogurt, and all the redshirts, WERE alive in early 2005, yes. But they died. It just HAPPENS that they died in a different “time zone” so to speak. They didn’t return to THEIR lives in 1950 and die, their 2005 selves went to a time before they existed.

    I was working on an encyclopedia analogy to help figure out the time travel issues when Rita developed (pun intended) the photoshop analogy. Since that was such a GREAT analogy, I put mine away.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Actually the photoshop analogy was mine, but thank you anyway.

    I like your encyclopedia analogy, too. It goes with the “you can’t change what will happen” idea. What has been printed already is set in stone, but that does not mean you can’t have additions in the margins to further expand on how thigs happened/ came to be (sounds like my college books!).

  549. TechLost says:

    Anybody else think it’s possible that the people who we’ve seen pop up on the island such as walt harper yemi christian and dave are all time traveling? it would make sense that they just dissappear out of nowhere. The others must be confused on how desmond locke juliet faraday sawyer miles and charlotte, all just dissappear w/o a trace. i think my theory has flaws in it but to me it could be a very reasonable explaination for why every time we see some1 pop up they tell our survivors exactly what to do like they already know whats going to happen

  550. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”312120″]Actually the photoshop analogy was mine, but thank you anyway.
    [/quote]

    So sorry, Miraks! You definitely deserve credit because it really was a GREAT analogy!

    : ) P

  551. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”312114″][quote comment=”311907″][quote comment=”311530…. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? …..

    This leads to my question……
    Has anyone that has left the island ever died? We know that Michael and Jack have tried but couldn’t…

    I guess Locke (as Jeremy Bentham) did but was that really “off” the island?[/quote]
    ____
    Is Michael dead? Wasn’t he in the explosive room on the freighter when it ignited? Are we to believe that he survived that?[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Yes, Michael is dead. And he never went back to the actual island (although I still think that the freighter was in the island’s radius). Christian told Michael that he can ‘go now’ just before the bomb went. That was D&C’s way of telling us Michael is dead.

  552. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”312128″]Anybody else think it’s possible that the people who we’ve seen pop up on the island such as walt harper yemi christian and dave are all time traveling? it would make sense that they just dissappear out of nowhere. The others must be confused on how desmond locke juliet faraday sawyer miles and charlotte, all just dissappear w/o a trace. i think my theory has flaws in it but to me it could be a very reasonable explaination for why every time we see some1 pop up they tell our survivors exactly what to do like they already know whats going to happen[/quote]

    that makes a lot of sense. When Locke first saw Walt, he was older. Since it is still supposed to be 2004 when that happens, then Walt must be from the future. The question is, when does Walt get back on the island to be able to do this? Or does he somehow time travel from off the island?

    I think there is one piece to this time travelling thing that holds the answer, but at the moment I’m pretty sure that all of the characters that appear mysterioulsy are also time travelling, which is why sometimes when they appear they say nothing and just stare at you crypticlly, they are dumfounded themselves…

    -I also am very interested in Locke again. His whole science vs. Faith thing. He’s not the smartest one around, but he always follows his instinct usually on the contrary to what everyone else wants of him.

    Locke has got to be a pawn of Whitmores, (abbadon set him up to be on the plane, right) he is always being set up by somebody to be a pawn, this time he is planted as the chosen leader. He was placed on 815 specifically to be the one to go to 1954 and trip up Richard Alpert into thinking he is up for selective process… (say the Others have been looking for some sort of a sign now for a while) but since he so desperately wants to help Richard Alpert, he will follow his instinct always, making things that much more difficult on Whittmores behalf because Locke wants to be on the “good” side, and be he a leader or not, I think he will be the one who saves the day in the end.

    In other words John Locke is still the loose screw. And I don’t doubt that Daniel Faraday turns out to be on the wrong side. (serial time rapist)

  553. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”312118″][quote comment=”312035″]When the islanders suddenly shifted to the 1950s and then were attacked by the flaming arrows that killed Frobert, wouldn’t that be a significant alteration of the future, since now Frobert wont be alive in 2004.[/quote]

    Frogurt, and all the redshirts, WERE alive in early 2005, yes. But they died. It just HAPPENS that they died in a different “time zone” so to speak. They didn’t return to THEIR lives in 1950 and die, their 2005 selves went to a time before they existed.

    I was working on an encyclopedia analogy to help figure out the time travel issues when Rita developed (pun intended) the photoshop analogy. Since that was such a GREAT analogy, I put mine away. I will return to that analogy because it makes the dying in a different “time zone” easier to explain.

    Okay, so think of the history of the island as an encyclopedia set in a font in a thick book. Everything that happened in linear fashion is listed in this book.

    When the LOSTies traveled back the first time, we go in and handwrite the things they did in the margin on the page in the time they landed. Same goes for the next time they land – we write whatever happens in the margin. It doesn’t CHANGE history, but what they did must be noted.

    So we get to the most recent jump where the flaming arrows fly through the sky. We’re madly writing this information in the margins of our encyclopedia. When the redshirts die, we include that. But writing in the margins does NOT CHANGE what is typewritten in the encyclopedia already. Frogurt and the redshirts existed in 2005. Then they died.

    If Sawyer, Juliet et al travel to late 2004, they might encounter the redshirts. If they travel to a week AFTER the freighter exploded, they will not.

    There will have to be a footnote in early 2005, which explains that the redshirts perished while time traveling.

    Hope this makes sense,

    : ) P[/quote]

    I sorta understand what you are saying but in your analogy: Encyclopedia=everything that happened in linear fashion. Encyclopedia therefore=history.

    If you write in the margins you are changing the enclyclopedia. For example, Trixanna picks up the encyclopedia at 10 AM, reads the first 100 pages before becoming overcome with grief that Charlie has drowned. She puts the encyclopedia down. PJ comes along at noon and starts reading the same 100 pages, except, he writes in the margin on page 82, that Charlie is alive and well and making music.

    PJ: Why are you so sad Trixanna?
    T: I don’t know, I just got so attached to Charlie, it was so sad how he died.
    PJ: (laughing) Charlie’s not dead.
    T: What do you mean, I read it in the encyclopedia.
    PJ: Are you surrrrre?(turns to page to reveal his handwritten notation in the margin…smiling).

    Librarian: Security, we have a vandal in our midst. Security!

    So my point is that by writing in the encyclopedia you are changing the overall presentation of the information, from what it previously stated. One is not changing what is already written, but they are definitely modifying it.

    A 4th dimension person may argue that what is written in the margins was already there, just unnoticed, or illegible.

  554. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”312156″]I sorta understand what you are saying but in your analogy: Encyclopedia=everything that happened in linear fashion. Encyclopedia therefore=history.

    If you write in the margins you are changing the enclyclopedia. For example, Trixanna picks up the encyclopedia at 10 AM, reads the first 100 pages before becoming overcome with grief that Charlie has drowned. She puts the encyclopedia down. PJ comes along at noon and starts reading the same 100 pages, except, he writes in the margin on page 82, that Charlie is alive and well and making music.

    *snip*

    So my point is that by writing in the encyclopedia you are changing the overall presentation of the information, from what it previously stated. One is not changing what is already written, but they are definitely modifying it.
    [/quote]

    What you are saying would be true, EXCEPT that any notations in the margins don’t actually affect what is written in the text.

    Plus, using your analogy, if I had written that Charlie was alive and playing music, I would not have been writing something that is true.

    I did, however, ENJOY your analogy because well, you know.

    : ) P

  555. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”312158″]Plus, using your analogy, if I had written that Charlie was alive and playing music, I would not have been writing something that is true.
    [/quote]

    To clarify, I mean that I would not have been writing something that I KNOW to be true, but rather something I believe, and indeed HOPE, to be true! LOL

    : ) P

  556. Jack MD says:

    [quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]

    It seems Charlotte has all the symptoms of a BRAIN TUMOR

  557. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”311928″]Mia in Comment 536- I don’t think “Jeremy Bentham” is really dead and that’s why it’s important his body goes with them. (Did anyone else have flashes of the spider bite/bury the people alive episode?) There was a scene with Ben taking a wrapped box out of a hotel air vent and quickly hiding it in some luggage. I’m thinkin the box has something to do with bringing Locke back.

    So you may be on to something. . .[/quote]

    the “box” looked an awful lot like the book thing that widmore bought at the black rock auction…that would make sense in that it may contain information on how to find the island if that is, in fact, what ben had with him.

  558. emitnitsol says:

    [quote comment=”310365″][quote comment=”310358″]does anyone else wonder why charlotte is getting all messed up from the time traveling and no one else is? we know why daniel isnt becuase he has the constant of desmond. but no one else has a constant, so is it just a matter of time before this starts to happen to everyone else?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    That’s what I think. Mentioned it early on the last thread. I think Dan told us last season that it effects people at different rates. Minkowski and the guy that left the blood stain on the wall died days apart. The girl that wore the heavy chain swim suit and jumped off the freightor was starting her issues too. Des was saved by Faraday. Now Faraday is trying to delay/stop Char’s until someone stops the traveling. Everyone is in danger unless the group goes back to the island.[/quote]

    I believe that is incorrect, that nose bleeding thing happened when your counsiousness was traveling through time, like desmond did, like minkowski did, in that time traveling kind, only your mind time traveled, you in your present time only seemed to faint, in THAT kind of time travel you needed a constant to remid you which was the “real” time if not it was too much for your brain.
    In this case charlotte is not mentally time traveling they are all actually disapearing (alpert told us so) and physically travelling through time, body and mind, so there is no need for a constant.
    If you look at charlottes symptoms and ask a doctor you will find out she actually has a BRain Tumor.

  559. Hattori says:

    [quote comment=”311907″][quote comment=”311530…. If Ben said, about killing Widmore, “you know I can’t do that” does that mean that Widmore cannot be killed (perhaps like Michael) or cannot be killed by Ben? …..

    This leads to my question……
    Has anyone that has left the island ever died? We know that Michael and Jack have tried but couldn’t…

    I guess Locke (as Jeremy Bentham) did but was that really “off” the island?[/quote]

    Could it be that Locke is in some sort of long term mind time-traveling (similar to Desmond’s body just going comatose when he had his problems on the freighter) and that when Ben brings his body back to the island they will catch up with Locke’s conciousness…

  560. DocH says:

    Hmmm… Epistaxis (nose bleed)
    Anatomical deformity, Blunt trauma, Foreign bodies (nose-picking), Inflammatory reaction Insufflated drugs (…cocaine), Nasal tumors, Low humidity, Nasal sprays/steroids, Barotrauma (aircraft or scuba diving), Surgical Trauma, Vasodilation, Allergies, Anemia, Connective Tissue Disease, Dyscrasias, Envenomation (snake/spider), Hypertension, Infectious Disease, Pregnancy, Vascular Disorders,
    Vitamin Deficiency.

    I am sorry, brain tumors and time travel just aren’t on the list of nose bleed causers. But what do I know?

  561. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”312176″][quote comment=”312158″]Plus, using your analogy, if I had written that Charlie was alive and playing music, I would not have been writing something that is true.
    [/quote]

    To clarify, I mean that I would not have been writing something that I KNOW to be true, but rather something I believe, and indeed HOPE, to be true! LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Um, PJ, I know it’s LOST and all, but…..

  562. Wafflecopter says:

    Some thoughts (sorry if I repeat, I tried to read most of the posts):

    -Jacob is known to give severe sicknesses to people but gives them an out for it, seemingly as a warning. Ben was misusing his power. Island didn’t like that. Ben got a spinal tumor but Jack removed it; Jack was trying to get everyone to leave. Island didn’t like that. Jack gets appendicitis but Juliet can remove it; and now what did Charlotte do to piss off the island? I believe she’s going to be saved.

    -The theory that the whispers are past Losties, and the appearances of Walt et al. is from time travel doesn’t hold up. The whispering appeared whenever the Others were nearby, usually right when someone was about to get kidnapped. Invisible people accompanied by the whispers captured Jack/Kate/Sawyer at the end of S02, and Harper showed up with whispers, so we know the Others have some control over it. It can’t be past Losties doing it independently. The Others are not bewildered by the whispers at all.

    As for the appearances, what is more likely is that Jacob can manifest the person that “haunts” the Losties in order to manipulate them for some purpose. This accounts for Christian, Yemi, Boone, Hurley’s imaginary friend, Harper, and Ben’s mom off the top of my head. Walt is probably a special case, since he’s supposed to be psychic. It makes more sense too since they all speak on behalf of Jacob (except for Harper). It also seems to be tied with death. After a person dies is typically when they show up.

    -What’s wrong with the idea that Jughead is the reason the Swan station was built? We don’t know exactly what happened to the bomb after John and company skipped off into the past/future, but we do know there was an accident, the hatch was marked quarantine, is highly magnetic, and that people got sick on the island. What better explanation for that than a leaking nuke? Perhaps the button pushing and the end of the world has something to do with the island’s mysterious properties in conjunction with the bomb. Maybe together it would explode exponentially through TIME. or something along those lines.

    -Also, we know that Richard Alpert learned of John Locke by meeting him in the past. Perhaps Ben learns of Juliet by meeting her in the past. If he did, it gives reason why the Others wouldn’t take no for an answer in bringing her and keeping her on the island (You know, besides Ben being crazy… maybe the reason for his crazy). I wonder if Sawyer will also have a strange past connection from the time skipping. So far his island connections are very loose.

  563. Newbie says:

    [quote comment=”312158″][quote comment=”312156″]I sorta understand what you are saying but in your analogy: Encyclopedia=everything that happened in linear fashion. Encyclopedia therefore=history.

    If you write in the margins you are changing the enclyclopedia. For example, Trixanna picks up the encyclopedia at 10 AM, reads the first 100 pages before becoming overcome with grief that Charlie has drowned. She puts the encyclopedia down. PJ comes along at noon and starts reading the same 100 pages, except, he writes in the margin on page 82, that Charlie is alive and well and making music.

    *snip*

    So my point is that by writing in the encyclopedia you are changing the overall presentation of the information, from what it previously stated. One is not changing what is already written, but they are definitely modifying it.
    [/quote]

    What you are saying would be true, EXCEPT that any notations in the margins don’t actually affect what is written in the text.

    Plus, using your analogy, if I had written that Charlie was alive and playing music, I would not have been writing something that is true.

    I did, however, ENJOY your analogy because well, you know.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Thanks PJ Sanders and RGS..I think I do understand your points. So if the Losties on the island time travel to 2004 they would find the redshirts alive, even though the red shirts died in 1954, because they are going back to the main text of the encyclopeadia, and I guess we’re to assume that what happens in the margins in 1954 does not affect the main text in 2004, but it DOES affect the main text in 2005 because that is when the author of the encyclopeadia took a pause, put her pen down, and turned the pages back to 1954 and looked at the margins and said ‘Oh darn, they just died. Better make a note of that in chapter 2005.’
    Hey..this kinda gives me hope that Jin will end up being alive..at least for some time. I really didn’t want Jin to die and if he is dead then I wont like Darlton very much. Hopefully some wierd time-skiparoo can happen and Jin will end up being alive after the freighter explodes as well.

  564. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”312253″]I think I do understand your points. So if the Losties on the island time travel to 2004 they would find the redshirts alive, even though the red shirts died in 1954, because they are going back to the main text of the encyclopeadia, and I guess we’re to assume that what happens in the margins in 1954 does not affect the main text in 2004, but it DOES affect the main text in 2005 because that is when the author of the encyclopeadia took a pause, put her pen down, and turned the pages back to 1954 and looked at the margins and said ‘Oh darn, they just died. Better make a note of that in chapter 2005.'[/quote]

    Sounds like you have it! I think you may no longer qualify as a “newbie!”

    [quote comment=”312253″]Hey..this kinda gives me hope that Jin will end up being alive..at least for some time. I really didn’t want Jin to die and if he is dead then I wont like Darlton very much. Hopefully some wierd time-skiparoo can happen and Jin will end up being alive after the freighter explodes as well.[/quote]

    We had a few theories flying around about Jin surviving in last week’s thread. Check out messages 287, 289, 416, 418, and 419.

    : ) P

  565. RGS says:

    How ’bout this PJ. If the historical notations written in the margins of the encyclopedia has no affect on the encyclopedia, why does it have to be noted?

  566. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”312330″]How ’bout this PJ. If the historical notations written in the margins of the encyclopedia has no affect on the encyclopedia, why does it have to be noted?[/quote]

    It doesn’t. I was just using that as an example as to how they can visit the past without affecting it.

    : ) P

  567. Newbie says:

    [quote comment=”312257″][quote comment=”312253″]I think I do understand your points. So if the Losties on the island time travel to 2004 they would find the redshirts alive, even though the red shirts died in 1954, because they are going back to the main text of the encyclopeadia, and I guess we’re to assume that what happens in the margins in 1954 does not affect the main text in 2004, but it DOES affect the main text in 2005 because that is when the author of the encyclopeadia took a pause, put her pen down, and turned the pages back to 1954 and looked at the margins and said ‘Oh darn, they just died. Better make a note of that in chapter 2005.'[/quote]

    Sounds like you have it! I think you may no longer qualify as a “newbie!”

    [quote comment=”312253″]Hey..this kinda gives me hope that Jin will end up being alive..at least for some time. I really didn’t want Jin to die and if he is dead then I wont like Darlton very much. Hopefully some wierd time-skiparoo can happen and Jin will end up being alive after the freighter explodes as well.[/quote]

    We had a few theories flying around about Jin surviving in last week’s thread. Check out messages 287, 289, 416, 418, and 419.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ___
    Thanks! I checked them out. I’m hoping he jumped off the freighter and started skipping around in time too.

  568. BaileyLovesLost says:

    Let’s say if Ms. Hawkings is Daniel’s mom and her first name is Eloise and she is “Elle,” the girl on the island in 1954 with the gun….. Eloise was the name of Daniel’s rat. So all the evidence points to Daniel is his own father, so when he was born it turned his mother into a rat! After all, Daniel does kind of resemble Ratatouille.

  569. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”312453″]So all the evidence points to Daniel is his own father,[/quote]

    Huh???

  570. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”312453″]Let’s say if Ms. Hawkings is Daniel’s mom and her first name is Eloise and she is “Elle,” the girl on the island in 1954 with the gun….. Eloise was the name of Daniel’s rat. So all the evidence points to Daniel is his own father, so when he was born it turned his mother into a rat! After all, Daniel does kind of resemble Ratatouille.[/quote]
    I think we need a new episode to think about.

  571. BaileyLovesLost says:

    Lol! We definitely needed a new episode.

  572. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”311881″][quote comment=”311631″]just this minute finished watching jughead!better late then never!
    heres a few of my observations …. 1.the girl in the bed is charlotte.2. The janitor at faradays lab said faraday was researching travelling ‘back’ in time ,not time travel.3.Young widmore is sent away from the island by Alpert for breaking the other soldiers neck whilst escaping capture.4.The H. bomb was suspended over a hatch when faraday went to look at it.5.Why did the soldier girl say to faraday ‘you just cant keep away can you’but then later when she had a gun on him ,asked him who he was?.6.latin would have been the language of the black rock crew?.7.the girl soldier is familiar but i dont think she is faradays mom or widmores concubine…i think she s familiar to faraday for other reasons. And finally here s my theory..The island losties are ‘students’ in a history class. ..a giant ‘history book ‘if you will. the pages of the book are turning but the losties are staying still,each chapter is a different period in the islands history,every time there s a flash, a different chapter.What they are seeing is the events that lead up to why they are there. and for what reason.
    Obviously,now richard has spoken to lock ,when he presents him with his choice of items in the future ,lock will pick the compass.Another point is , if des had not got off the island on the helecopter ,would he have been with sawyer juliet and daniel knocking on his own hatch front door?? which makes me think that charlotte is sick because there is another one of her on the island at the same time,like the dual rabbit senario in the orientation film[/quote]
    The girl in the bed is OBVIOUSLY not Charlotte. Also, the hatches were not even built in 1954, as far as we know, the Dharma initiative built them sometime in the 1970’s.[/quote]/////////////////////
    but there is a hatch under the bomb . and that would make sense, because in the future the bomb was encased in concrete .

  573. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”312156″][quote comment=”312118″][quote comment=”312035″]When the islanders suddenly shifted to the 1950s and then were attacked by the flaming arrows that killed Frobert, wouldn’t that be a significant alteration of the future, since now Frobert wont be alive in 2004.[/quote]

    Frogurt, and all the redshirts, WERE alive in early 2005, yes. But they died. It just HAPPENS that they died in a different “time zone” so to speak. They didn’t return to THEIR lives in 1950 and die, their 2005 selves went to a time before they existed.

    I was working on an encyclopedia analogy to help figure out the time travel issues when Rita developed (pun intended) the photoshop analogy. Since that was such a GREAT analogy, I put mine away. I will return to that analogy because it makes the dying in a different “time zone” easier to explain.

    Okay, so think of the history of the island as an encyclopedia set in a font in a thick book. Everything that happened in linear fashion is listed in this book.

    When the LOSTies traveled back the first time, we go in and handwrite the things they did in the margin on the page in the time they landed. Same goes for the next time they land – we write whatever happens in the margin. It doesn’t CHANGE history, but what they did must be noted.

    So we get to the most recent jump where the flaming arrows fly through the sky. We’re madly writing this information in the margins of our encyclopedia. When the redshirts die, we include that. But writing in the margins does NOT CHANGE what is typewritten in the encyclopedia already. Frogurt and the redshirts existed in 2005. Then they died.

    If Sawyer, Juliet et al travel to late 2004, they might encounter the redshirts. If they travel to a week AFTER the freighter exploded, they will not.

    There will have to be a footnote in early 2005, which explains that the redshirts perished while time traveling.

    Hope this makes sense,

    : ) P[/quote]

    I sorta understand what you are saying but in your analogy: Encyclopedia=everything that happened in linear fashion. Encyclopedia therefore=history.

    If you write in the margins you are changing the enclyclopedia. For example, Trixanna picks up the encyclopedia at 10 AM, reads the first 100 pages before becoming overcome with grief that Charlie has drowned. She puts the encyclopedia down. PJ comes along at noon and starts reading the same 100 pages, except, he writes in the margin on page 82, that Charlie is alive and well and making music.

    PJ: Why are you so sad Trixanna?
    T: I don’t know, I just got so attached to Charlie, it was so sad how he died.
    PJ: (laughing) Charlie’s not dead.
    T: What do you mean, I read it in the encyclopedia.
    PJ: Are you surrrrre?(turns to page to reveal his handwritten notation in the margin…smiling).

    Librarian: Security, we have a vandal in our midst. Security!

    So my point is that by writing in the aencyclopedi you are changing the overall presentation of the information, from what it previously stated. One is not changing what is already written, but they are definitely modifying it.

    A 4th dimension person may argue that what is written in the margins was already there, just unnoticed, or illegible.[/quote]
    /////////////////////////////////////
    …..same as newspapers printing a story of a ..lets say ,a big fire. ..they all have reporters on the scene. as well as,other news teams ,and live tv cameras and so on .All of them watching the same fire. But no two news reports are the same, The reporters were all at the same incident , but looked at it from different perspectives..ONE story, many angles.Its still the fire ,but seen though different eyes .
    I think lost is not always shown from the perspctive of the viewer ,some times its through the eyes of other characters. And its not so easy to spot the difference.
    On the encyclopedia issue , whether, the information is in print or written in the margin, the next person to read it reads the print and the pencil notes !And when the next edition is extended or upgraded ,it will include all the text as fact. pencil or print!

  574. duke says:

    Just rewatched Jughead with the info across the bottom and the conversation between Daniel and Ellie on the way to the nuke struck me as interesting. She metioned something about him being something of a ladies man and he responded brushing it off with a no. It seems that she reminded him of someone he used to love in a romantic way not the love he would have for his mother. I am convinced that she is linked to coma girl that Daniel screwed up with his time travelling equip at Oxford.

    Also because of the info at the bottom it was revealed that Daniel used the lamp to send RADIATION into the rat for it’s consciousness to time travel and learn the route to run the maze. Jughead was a nuke that was leaking radiation. Connection, I do think so.

  575. duke says:

    One last thought, why would we learn such great information as Ms. Hawking’s first name being Eloise by reading some info on the bottom of a repeat episode and not during the first broadcast. That info to me would qualify as a WOW moment. Much bigger during actual program and not in the fashion it was released if ELLie in 1954 was Daniel’s mother.

  576. Hooked says:

    [quote comment=”311055″][quote comment=”311050″]Also, I’m beginning to believe the H-bomb is the reason behind a lot of the island mysteries: radiation treatment cures cancer and can affect pregnant women; caused the build up of electromagnet energy in the Swan station….I love all of your theories.[/quote]

    I love yours too! Well done![/quote]
    ***************
    Thank you, Hurley’s Dad, for your encouraging words.

  577. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”313361″]Just rewatched Jughead with the info across the bottom and the conversation between Daniel and Ellie on the way to the nuke struck me as interesting. She metioned something about him being something of a ladies man and he responded brushing it off with a no. It seems that she reminded him of someone he used to love in a romantic way not the love he would have for his mother. I am convinced that she is linked to coma girl that Daniel screwed up with his time travelling equip at Oxford.

    Also because of the info at the bottom it was revealed that Daniel used the lamp to send RADIATION into the rat for it’s consciousness to time travel and learn the route to run the maze. Jughead was a nuke that was leaking radiation. Connection, I do think so.[/quote]

    Makes lots of sense… It wasd a while ago I watched the episode with the rat, but I think he set the radiation level on the lamp to 316 (maybe not, but it was an important number, 108 maybe?) Anyway, I have been thinking for some time that this Time Travel business was created some time AFTER the Jughead bomb, and a direct result of the radiation mixing with the unique energy of the island… This would make any of the items associated with time travel (ie the donkey wheel) have to have been made AFTER 1954. …However, the wheel still could have been made 1000 years ago, just by people who were born around or after 1954.

    Anyway, to get to Ellie. I have been thinking theres lots more to Daniel Faraday and Eloise Hawking then him just being her son. Resulting from them in the fifties. Faraday seems to have messed a lot of things up, and I wonder if he in fact created time travel to begin with. Therefore maybe he was adopted by Eloise at some point, because she knew what importance he would have… He’s That time travelling kid who knows the ins and outs…

    I’m flying off a lid here obviously, but so far this season, I think this Jughead episode has been the most deserving of revisiting. Tons here to chew on…

  578. wallyp says:

    BTW… Young Ellie can put the handcuffs on me anyday! Woot!

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