Numbers Theory

This theory was sent in by our friend Hammer.

Valenzetti came up with a formula that predicts the end of the world. The numbers are the factors. What if DHARMA or anyone for that matter messed something up by changing something in the past?

Valenzetti’s equation found the resulting ‘D Day’ so to speak. DHARMA used the island to try to find a way to change one of the factors to ’save’ the world, but was stopped by the purge. Now, Ms. Hawking has found the island and now knows that they have 70 hours until the end of world. In effect, Ben’s group is trying to change a number to ’save us all’.

Is Ms. Hawking’s scribblings actually Valenzetti’s equation?

I couldn’t wrap my head around why the world (yes I am assuming that Ms. Hawking means the world and not just her people) is in trouble if the group doesn’t get back to the island. I mean to ask, “What is the REAL reason why they have to get back?” Yes to save the world, but WHY? What does it un-change or better yet change? So I started pondering recurring themes. And BANG, the numbers. They told us about them early on for a reason.

I am thinking that the Swan’s caretakers really were saving the world, then Desmond turned the key and we had the purple sky event with a huge discharge, which set off the chain of events that has us where we are today, trying to fix everything and save the world.

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138 Responses to Numbers Theory

  1. Hammer says:

    Thanks Nick for posting this….let the debunking begin!!

  2. Hammer says:

    sector7 wrote:

    katesFriend wrote:

    JHCxyz wrote:

    Also, I wonder if it is a coincidence that there are 6 numbers in the equation and there are 6 in the 0ceanic 6. Could they each be one part of the equation?

    This is what I was alluding to in comment 25. I think the numbers represent the O6 in some way.

    ++++++++++++++
    Okay, let’s say the O6 is the 6 in the equation. We are lead to believe that at least one of the numbers has to change to change the day the world ends. What if they come back….but not all of them. If only 5 come back, then the factors change and alters the date of the end of the world.

  3. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="310624"]Okay, let’s say the O6 is the 6 in the equation. We are lead to believe that at least one of the numbers has to change to change the day the world ends. What if they come back….but not all of them. If only 5 come back, then the factors change and alters the date of the end of the world.[/quote]

    I’ll bite. I wonder, though, if Aaron is really one of the six. He had not yet been born. What is LOCKE is the 6th? How does that change things?

    : ) P

  4. Hammer says:

    PJ, I was actually ‘biting’ too. I was just throwing that out there. I am banging my head trying to figure out why the O6 have to come back as far as the end of days is concerned.

  5. katesFriend says:

    Perhaps it would be helpful to look at each number and each O6 member individually, see if we could at least narrow down who is associated with which number, if that is even the case

    I don’t have any suggestions yet, but I will ponder!

  6. katesFriend says:

    4 = Aarons age when they return? Just throwing out any possible connections…

  7. katesFriend says:

    I meant to post these here originally, accidentally posted on the jughead page:

    ok,the numbers (4,8,15,16,23, 42) add up to 108, the amount of time after which a button must be pressed to save the world

    and if each O6 is one of the numbers, they all add up to something else that will save the world, i guess returning to the island together

    From Lostpedia:

    The numbers in actuality are said to represent human and environmental factors in the equation (given numerical form), though their precise meaning is uncertain. One purpose of the DHARMA Initiative was to change the factors leading to humanity’s demise, which will be indicated by an alteration in at least one of the human/environmental factors – i.e. the numbers

  8. Hammer says:

    katefriend, since the equation was done based on the cold war. I don’t think that each number is represented by an O6. I think it’s just another number association for hinting purposes by the writers. I think that their coming back or lack thereof alters one of the 6 factors.

  9. katesFriend says:

    This is a little different, each number could represent something that would relate to variables in an end of the world “prophecy”:

    4: seasons, dimensions
    8: scientists say humans have 8 senses
    15: “” 15 emotions
    16: ??
    23: chromosomes
    42: averages months between solar eclipses?

    Just throwing this stuff out there, not sure how it relates!

  10. Hammer says:

    It’s good stuff. There has to be something that the number represent!

  11. Hammer says:

    Also, DHARMA’s research stations had themes. Human behavior, animal behavior, underwater, etc. They were trying to find something they could change.

  12. Vaughn K says:

    i dont really care about getting the credit but i brought the numbers up last night and everyone basically thought nothing of it than hammer said something about it and everyone is like hey he might be onto something. lol thats pretty salty

  13. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="310728"]i dont really care about getting the credit but i brought the numbers up last night and everyone basically thought nothing of it than hammer said something about it and everyone is like hey he might be onto something. lol thats pretty salty[/quote]
    Not to get into a pissing match, but I brought it up in comment 13 long before the show even started last night, yours is 232. I had also submitted my theory to the owners of this blog between 2 and 3 o’clock eastern time.

  14. Vaughn K says:

    congrats

  15. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="310728"]i dont really care about getting the credit but i brought the numbers up last night and everyone basically thought nothing of it than hammer said something about it and everyone is like hey he might be onto something. lol thats pretty salty[/quote]

    Vaughn, Hammer brought it up early in the day yesterday. I think it was in the first twenty or so comments.

    I expect that it was because you brought it up again, followed by Hammer – who let us know that there was a new thread in which to dicsuss it, that it got some traction. Don’t fret – we’re all having fun with it.

    : ) P

  16. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="310733"]congrats[/quote]
    I’m not shoving it in your face. You brought it up so I felt like I should explain.

    We good?

  17. Steve Baker says:

    Anyone know what kind of car Kate was driving in last night’s episode? I tried to catch the name, but it went too fast.

  18. Rita says:

    Ok, I’ll weigh in. Lets lay all the numbers out there: first we have the original numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42. Then we have the 108 (minutes between button pushes), 815 (flight number), 6 (number of O6ers) and now 70 (number of hours…until what?) What do they have in common? Nah, I got nothing.

  19. Rita says:

    OK, here’s something I just learned from LOSTpedia: 8/15 is the time the Hiroshema bomb went off (JST). It is also Independence day in Korea and India (where Nameste is a greeting word – Hindi) So here’s a thought – perhaps depending on which SIDE you are on, the numbers mean either THE END (bomb-esque ending) or INDEPENDENCE DAY -Nameste greetings of a sort. Just trying to participate!

  20. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="310759"]OK, here’s something I just learned from LOSTpedia: 8/15 is the time the Hiroshema bomb went off (JST). It is also Independence day in Korea and India (where Nameste is a greeting word – Hindi) So here’s a thought – perhaps depending on which SIDE you are on, the numbers mean either THE END (bomb-esque ending) or INDEPENDENCE DAY -Nameste greetings of a sort. Just trying to participate![/quote]This is good stuff. Keep brain storming Rita. Someone is gonna figure this out!

  21. Omar Kamel says:

    Hammer!

    It’s been a while :)

    Well, I’m in no position to de-bunk – but I can offer a couple of notes – maybe helpful – maybe not…

    For a start, I think the 70 Hours do NOT refer to the Valenzetti Equation ‘D-Day’ – simply because I think that it’s related to how long ‘reality’ can deal with the possible rupture in space time that’s now in place.

    Let me explain what I think I think is happening (not a typo…) -

    When the Island ‘moved’ – it moved without our Oceanic 6 – and in so doing has introduced an imbalance in reality caused specifically by the lack of conservation of their masses through time – this imbalance caused a rupture and in essence is the reason that the time-skips referred to by Faraday are happening – time is stuck in a loop within which it’s trying to fix itself – and it can basically sustain that loop without totally falling apart – for around 70 or so hours – what mathematics contribute to that number, I have no clue :)

    So I think the 70 hour thing is directly related to how long ‘reality’ can handle the stress of that mass imbalance through time/space.’

    I don’t think it refers to the Valenzetti D-Day.

    As for the bigger question – well – as this Season begins – and I see the interactions especially between Alpert and Locke – I am more and more reminded of when the writers mentioned something to the effect that Lost was basically a Rube Goldberg device – so yeah – somehow everything that’s been going on could be times’ attempt to fix itself somehow.

    We’ll see how it goes :)

  22. Hammer says:

    Well Omar, if in fact that is what is going on, then you just de-bunked. :)

    BTW, good to ‘see’ you.

  23. Rita says:

    I don’t know Omar. When Hawkings used the words “then God help us all” to refer to the 70 hour window, it sure SOUNDED like a D-day of some sort. Whether or not it is the same D-day they were initially trying to prevent (Dharma?) or not, it sounds bad all the same.

  24. Rita says:

    I still think the 70 (hours) is important in terms of the numbers. So far, all numbers have been significant.

  25. Marvin says:

    I just figured something out… 4,8,15,16,23, 42. If you add them all together they equal 108.

  26. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="310796"]I don’t know Omar. When Hawkings used the words “then God help us all” to refer to the 70 hour window, it sure SOUNDED like a D-day of some sort. Whether or not it is the same D-day they were initially trying to prevent (Dharma?) or not, it sounds bad all the same.[/quote]

    Well, yeah – it sure sounds bad – but then again – if I’m right well – it’s not like reality falling apart because of a mass/time imbalance is anything to sneeze at ;) I’m just saying it’s not the D-Day referenced by Valenzetti :)

    And Hammer, de-bunk not intended, but if I’m right about this – then I guess it is kind of a de-bunk.

    I kind of think I’m right – my other clue for the mass-imbalance theory is Ben’s insistence that they need to take Locke’s body along…

  27. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="310800"]I just figured something out… 4,8,15,16,23, 42. If you add them all together they equal 108.[/quote]

    Marvin :) Are you serious or is this your first time here :) ?

  28. Omar Kamel says:

    And Vaughn – don’t worry about the credit – the more I think about what I just theorized – the more I’m sure you’re both wrong and I’m right :)

    We’ll see. I might even have to eat my words!

  29. Kassie says:

    Nice theory!!! Hey- Check out my lost blog at lostkassicast.blogspot.com
    It’s just some recaps, easter eggs, and theories- started as an email sent to friends and family who watch the show- but would love to get more people on there and leaving theories and comments!! Become a fan and tell us your ideas!! Thanks!

  30. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="310632"][quote comment="310624"]Okay, let’s say the O6 is the 6 in the equation. We are lead to believe that at least one of the numbers has to change to change the day the world ends. What if they come back….but not all of them. If only 5 come back, then the factors change and alters the date of the end of the world.[/quote]

    I’ll bite. I wonder, though, if Aaron is really one of the six. He had not yet been born. What is LOCKE is the 6th? How does that change things?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ___________________________________________

    I was thinking maybe the O6 represent the numbers, but not so much now. I think the people who are on Jacob’s list might represent the numbers, though. Remember: Jack isn’t on Jacob’s list.

  31. Rita says:

    Well back to the numbers. :)
    They keep showing up, all over the world, in all sorts of situations (Hurley’s odometer, alarm clocks, etc.) like they are HAUNTING our LOSTies. All the numbers so far seem to be significant and keep being added (the 70 hour “deadline”). Can it be that the reason we can’t figure it out yet is because we don’t have them ALL yet? Like the 70 hours, we will be given additional numbers that will be clues to the final answer?
    That aside, the original numbers DO add up to the 108 minutes between button pushes – which seems to lead us to the Swan hatch – which NOW potentially is/was the home of the Jughead bomb, or more likely a doorway leading to the electromagnatism which allows time travel(the frozen donkey wheel chamber). To any mathmeticians out there, the numbers appear to me to be the first part of a longer logrhythim – what would the next numbers in sequence be? Have we already been given these numbers and just haven’t connected them yet?

  32. MyraBird says:

    A few things don’t add up for me for the Valenzetti’s equation thoery.

    From the statement, “then God help us all” – if those working with Ben really are trying to save the world from some kind of D-day.

    1) Why not just come out and say it? It would be a whole lot easier to recruit or persuade people for such a noble cause then all the subversive manipulation Ben has to do.

    2) If the 70 hours is some kind of a deadline, and they KNEW they had a deadline but just not how long … why wait 3 years to start rounding up the O6 if it’s so important?

    3) Adding to 1 – why so many different groups (others, Ben, Widmore, Dharma) competing with each other to get control or physically onto the island? With a D-day scenario it doesn’t make sense? It would imply that they are fighting each other to be the group to save the world first – what’s in it for them? Why not work together?

  33. Skweez says:

    Could the numbers somehow relate to the items that were set out by Guyliner for young Locke?

    6 numbers
    6 items (baseball glove, book of laws, sand/earth, compass, comic book and knife)

  34. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="310975"]WAll the numbers so far seem to be significant and keep being added (the 70 hour “deadline”). Can it be that the reason we can’t figure it out yet is because we don’t have them ALL yet? Like the 70 hours, we will be given additional numbers that will be clues to the final answer?
    [/quote]

    The 70 hours thing has me confused too. I mean three years AFTER they leave the island, they suddenly have a 70 hour window? There has to be a significance to it, but until we learn it, I will be skeptical of that.

    : ) P

  35. Hammer says:

    Just a thought, maybe it’s not a 70 hour window, but there are only 70 hours left until Valenzetti’s calculated time.

  36. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311117"]Just a thought, maybe it’s not a 70 hour window, but there are only 70 hours left until Valenzetti’s calculated time.[/quote]

    I just wonder why Ben is FINALLY working SO hard to get the O6 together when he has had three years. I mean surely he thought, I don’t know, a WEEK ago, “Oh gees, time is running out, I better get cracking!”

    It sounded as if Mrs. Hawking was reminding him about the 70 hours, but I could be wrong. She may only have just figured OUT that there are 70 hours left.

    : ) P

  37. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="311155"][quote comment="311117"]Just a thought, maybe it’s not a 70 hour window, but there are only 70 hours left until Valenzetti’s calculated time.[/quote]

    I just wonder why Ben is FINALLY working SO hard to get the O6 together when he has had three years. I mean surely he thought, I don’t know, a WEEK ago, “Oh gees, time is running out, I better get cracking!”

    It sounded as if Mrs. Hawking was reminding him about the 70 hours, but I could be wrong. She may only have just figured OUT that there are 70 hours left.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I agree with your last thought. He asked if she had Anne Locke…lol…any luck. He was surprised when she said yes….and even more surprised when she said 70 hours.

  38. Losty says:

    I just wonder why Ben is FINALLY working SO hard to get the O6 together when he has had three years. I mean surely he thought, I don’t know, a WEEK ago, “Oh gees, time is running out, I better get cracking!”

    It sounded as if Mrs. Hawking was reminding him about the 70 hours, but I could be wrong. She may only have just figured OUT that there are 70 hours left.

    : ) P[/quote]

    My first time on the forum so bear with me if someone has already thought of this… seems like some people here are very serious about credit :P…
    Since the island is moving in time, 70 hrs might refer to Ben and Ms. Hawking knowing exactly “where” and “when” the island will be 70 hrs later. If they miss this chance then “God help us all”. Just following Hammer’s thought, it took them 3 years of “searching” to find the island and how they can fix the problem.

  39. Rita says:

    [quote comment="311263"]
    [/quote]

    My first time on the forum so bear with me if someone has already thought of this… seems like some people here are very serious about credit :P…
    Since the island is moving in time, 70 hrs might refer to Ben and Ms. Hawking knowing exactly “where” and “when” the island will be 70 hrs later. If they miss this chance then “God help us all”. Just following Hammer’s thought, it took them 3 years of “searching” to find the island and how they can fix the problem.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Yes, this is my thought too. So the question here is, What is the big emergency? Why does God have to help us all, if they miss the window? I guess if this is the case, then the rest of the show will be about extreme urgency – will we see the ever calm-in-control Ben finally losing it? Why doesn’t he just tell the O6ers what is at stake? At this point, I think they have seen enough to believe ANYTHING related to the island.

  40. howulikethemapples? says:

    isn’t the 70 hours simply the time window they have to get back on the island before it disappears in time again? Think of it like the record going round and round.

  41. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311270"]Why does God have to help us all, if they miss the window? I guess if this is the case, then the rest of the show will be about extreme urgency – will we see the ever calm-in-control Ben finally losing it? Why doesn’t he just tell the O6ers what is at stake? At this point, I think they have seen enough to believe ANYTHING related to the island.[/quote]

    Okay, I get it. So maybe it is something like planets aligning – they’ve been waiting three years for “Mars, Jupiter and the moon” to all be the alignment and they will only be aligned for 70 hours?

    : ) P

  42. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311309"] — editor removed the spoiler-ish post [/quote]

    I can only assume, Jose, that you are new to this blog and therefore don’t know the “rules” here. I expect that you are referring to a) either a preview or b) a spoiler you have seen elsewhere.

    On this blog, we make it a point not to discuss spoilers INCLUDING episode previews. (I ask that you please refer to the guidelines above the comment form.) If you would like to discuss these things, there are many blogs on the web that encourage spoiler-talk. But those of us that “hang out” here, do so because it IS spoiler-free.

    Thanks,
    : ) P

  43. Circus Mom says:

    We may have something out of order. Mrs. Hawkings may have started doing her research after Desmond came and gave her Daniels message. Things arn’t necessarly in the order we see them.

    70 hours is equal to 4200 minutes.

    42 weeks is a full term baby. Most Doctors will induce at 42 weeks if you don’t deliver before then. Since pregnancy had been a issue on the show….

    Perhaps the problem is one of the numbers has changed and they have to change it back to save the world?

  44. new losty says:

    weren’t the O6 on the island 108. the numbers(4,8,15,16,23,42) added up

  45. new losty says:

    [quote comment="310759"]OK, here’s something I just learned from LOSTpedia: 8/15 is the time the Hiroshema bomb went off (JST). It is also Independence day in Korea and India (where Nameste is a greeting word – Hindi) So here’s a thought – perhaps depending on which SIDE you are on, the numbers mean either THE END (bomb-esque ending) or INDEPENDENCE DAY -Nameste greetings of a sort. Just trying to participate![/quote]

    there was one of thoses bombs on the island and daniel told there to put the bomb in the ground the darama station desmond was in maybe the bomb had somthing to do with the typing of the numbers to deactivate it

  46. Rita says:

    [quote comment="311328"]We may have something out of order. Mrs. Hawkings may have started doing her research after Desmond came and gave her Daniels message. Things arn’t necessarly in the order we see them.

    70 hours is equal to 4200 minutes.

    42 weeks is a full term baby. Most Doctors will induce at 42 weeks if you don’t deliver before then. Since pregnancy had been a issue on the show….

    Perhaps the problem is one of the numbers has changed and they have to change it back to save the world?[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I feel like my brain is ALMOST getting something here, but not quite! If the last number represents a baby, maybe that’s the key of sorts – but a specific baby, and they are trying to figure out which one? They kidnapped Walt and the plane crash survivor children, and Aaron (pre-birth). We don’t know that they kidnapped Ji, but Sun IS acting wierd. As far as we know, they don’t know about Charlie Hume yet. So why THESE children? Because they were either on the plane (and pre-planted there in all likelihood), or are the off-spring of people who were planted there (on the island) – so they are ALL special in a way. They are waiting for Jacob to decide – so if he hasn’t, then it isn’t someone on the island. Therefore, they ALL have to go back.
    OK, like I said, my brain isn’t QUITE getting it. I’ll keep working on it.

  47. Circus Mom says:

    4 four toes

  48. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="311488"]4

    four toes[/quote]
    Hmmmmm.

  49. new losty says:

    umm can someone answer this for me. Were they on the island 108 days? if not how many

  50. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311513"]umm can someone answer this for me. Were they on the island 108 days? if not how many[/quote]

    Yes, they were.

    : ) P

  51. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311513"]umm can someone answer this for me. Were they on the island 108 days? if not how many[/quote]

    Let me qualify that. They were “rescued” on day 108.

    : ) P

  52. new losty says:

    thanks and I think that the show was written so that everythig relates to the numbers thats why there are all theses totally diffrent things all connecting to the number i also think that 8/15 shoud be added in too

  53. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311595"]thanks and I think that the show was written so that everythig relates to the numbers thats why there are all theses totally diffrent things all connecting to the number i also think that 8/15 shoud be added in too[/quote]

    815 IS one of the numbers. 4 8 15 16 23 42.

    : ) P

  54. new losty says:

    ya sorry i spaced but that goes back to the thought that everything revolves around the numbers

  55. Rita says:

    [quote comment="311624"]ya sorry i spaced but that goes back to the thought that everything revolves around the numbers[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Hey New LOSTy! For some research into the numbers theories, check out LOSTpedia at lostpedia.com and search under numbers. You will be amazed at what you will find out, and what new ideas you might have after checking it out. LOSTpedia can answer most of your questions, which will be MANY if you are a new LOSTy! Welcome to the blog.

  56. new losty says:

    Thanks PJ and Rita. I’ll check that out.

  57. new losty says:

    Hi. Thanks again PJ and Rita for the info. Rita on lostpedia I learnd that not only is the cover story amount of people (324) 108×3. It’s also in the seires of numbers 4,8,15,16,23,42. The last three digets is the cover story amount of people dead

  58. Lily says:

    I think the island is looking for the six and won’t stop jumping time until it finds them. It’s looking for them “present” time. I think when they get back, the island will go back to the time they left and those who have died since will come back. I don’t know how the 70 hrs fits in… and I don’t know why Ben would have ever let them off the island if he new how much their leaving would screw things up.

    PS has anyone ever seen Alpert’s feet? Does he have only four toes?

  59. andre gr says:

    Just an observation:
    Numbers are: 4 8 15 16 23 42
    4+8 + 16+42 = 70

  60. PuRe says:

    Hi I’m to this posting lark I normally just read lol.

    there was some talk about why has it taken Ben 3 years to tell them they have to go back, well we dont know that when Ben left the Island that he “landed” in the “present” (i.e. 3 years ago) what if he landed in this “present” (i.e. now or closer to now) so for him this has been almost instantanious and therefore hasnt been twindling his thumbs but has been working out how to fix what he did. I also think only he can fix it coz he turned the wheel….

    just a thought… :o)

  61. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311812"]there was some talk about why has it taken Ben 3 years to tell them they have to go back, well we dont know that when Ben left the Island that he “landed” in the “present” (i.e. 3 years ago) what if he landed in this “present” (i.e. now or closer to now) so for him this has been almost instantanious and therefore hasnt been twindling his thumbs but has been working out how to fix what he did. I also think only he can fix it coz he turned the wheel….
    [/quote]

    Actually, we know EXACTLY when Ben landed, October 24, 2005, because he asked the clerk at the hotel in Tunisia. So yes, he hasn’t been “off island” an entire three years, but certainly long enough to work on his plan for a while.

    : ) P

  62. JohnCML says:

    My numbers theory??? Darlton are reading our post over the last few years and having a good laugh.

    Hey guys. We love your mental abuse. Keep it coming. (just in case they are reading)

  63. new losty says:

    Guess what I found out today, Dharma is a word it means the religious and moral dutys of the hindus. Hope this helps

  64. robert says:

    This makes things clear… a little. Lost is still twisted.

  65. Rich says:

    OK, here’s something I’ve been mulling over. I read through this, I hope I’m not posting something that’s already up. I think we need to boil this down to a simpler problem. Farady said something very important when he said you can move up and back along the time line, but not away from it (I’m TOTALLY paraphrasing there). So I wonder what happens if you DO move away? What I mean is what if one of the O6 does something because they are not where they are “supposed” to be. For example, Jack is driving around and he hits someone in his car, that person was supposed to be the next president. You see where I’m going? All of a sudden EVERYTHING is messed up. What if in 70 hours, one of the O6 does something to really “screw up time”? This might be full of holes, if it is let me know.

  66. new losty says:

    Hi Rich. I don’t really get what your getting out but if you want more info I sugest going to lostpedia. I love getting peoples opinin though so could you try to explain that again.

  67. Rita says:

    [quote comment="311943"]OK, here’s something I’ve been mulling over. I read through this, I hope I’m not posting something that’s already up. I think we need to boil this down to a simpler problem. Farady said something very important when he said you can move up and back along the time line, but not away from it (I’m TOTALLY paraphrasing there). So I wonder what happens if you DO move away? What I mean is what if one of the O6 does something because they are not where they are “supposed” to be. For example, Jack is driving around and he hits someone in his car, that person was supposed to be the next president. You see where I’m going? All of a sudden EVERYTHING is messed up. What if in 70 hours, one of the O6 does something to really “screw up time”? This might be full of holes, if it is let me know.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I think what Ms Hawkings was telling Des (during his purple sky event travels) that you CAN’T change things (as in it is impossible, rather than just that you aren’t suppose to) because even if you TRY TO (ala Desmond trying to save Charlie’s life), it will “course correct” and what was SUPPOSE to happen, will happen another way, but it WILL happen. The bigger question seems to be, if the “rules” don’t apply to everyone, can THEY (like Desmond) change things? THEN what?

  68. new losty says:

    I think they will get back but it will involve the numbers. Did you guys read what I found out today about dharma and do you think it could relate?

  69. new losty says:

    I’m kinda LOST there are some many things the numbers relate to. What does it all mean?

  70. new losty says:

    Rita I’m kinda new I’ve wated some last season all of this season and some online. Could you tell me some big bentch marks with the numbers. I know Desmond’s relation and Hurly’s relation with the numbers.

  71. Rita says:

    [quote comment="311958"]Rita I’m kinda new I’ve wated some last season all of this season and some online. Could you tell me some big bentch marks with the numbers. I know Desmond’s relation and Hurly’s relation with the numbers.[/quote]
    ______________________________
    The numbers have been seen in every episode through all the current and previous seasons, at least in SOME way (i.e. when Dr. Chang’s alarm went off at the opening of The Lie (season premiere), the time was 8:15. I’m not sure what to tell you about numbers benchmarks because I haven’t figured it all out myself! Just keep watching and looking for the numbers – they show up in everything! One day, one of us is sure to figure it out. You are right though in thinking that it will all come down to the numbers. I think so too.

  72. new losty says:

    Thanks Rita that really helped. Do you think that definition of dharma relates to anything?

  73. achtungpv says:

    The British chick with the gun is Daniel’s mother…which is why she looks familiar to him. I’ll guess Widmore is his absentee father thus funding of his research.

    The rule that was broken: A 2nd timeline was created when the key was turned. When Ben’s daughter had a gun to her head, he was not concerned. He’d been to the future and she existed so he knew fate would not let her die. When she did, the first thing he said was “the rules have changed”. He realizes he’s not in the right timeline anymore.

    They must end the incorrect timeline. Desmond will be the one that has to make the choice…live with Penelope and his son in the current incorrect timeline or save the world and never see Penelope again and eliminate his son’s existence.

  74. Bobola says:

    To hell with the numbers;
    I want to know how the hell Freckles was able to get off from the crimes the Police were chasing her for?
    All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.

  75. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="311977"]
    All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.[/quote]

    Well then, find a different thread! THIS is the NUMBERS THEORY thread.

    : ) P

  76. b_mac says:

    I know this has been said [howulikethemapples]:
    What if the island has jumped around in time (this could be days or weeks in island time) and it “lands” (for lack of a better word) in 2008 for 70 hrs. This would be the only time in God-knows-when they will be able to get back since they can only travel through space. I have neither doomsday nor numbers hypothesis. Like I said this sounds a little too simple but you know; Occums Razor. if this is dumb please explain why the simplest answer is not the best. :)
    -B

  77. Newbie says:

    Hello. Question here: Jacob is the one who told Locke to move the island. Didn’t Jacob know the consequences that the move would have? Why would he want that to happen? Wasn’t there any other way to protect the island apart from moving it and risking the end of times. Seems like Jacob is kinda evil in that sense. He has something up his sleeve.

  78. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="312037"]Hello. Question here: Jacob is the one who told Locke to move the island. Didn’t Jacob know the consequences that the move would have? Why would he want that to happen? Wasn’t there any other way to protect the island apart from moving it and risking the end of times. Seems like Jacob is kinda evil in that sense. He has something up his sleeve.[/quote]
    It is possible that the time shifts are only happening because the button was not being pushed anymore and Desmond turned the failsafe key. They may have moved the island before without “side effects”. Daniel is actually the only one who seemed to know in advance that they would move in time. Richard Alpert certainly didn’t seem to know. We have assumed that Ben, Mrs Hawkins and Widmore knew what would happen but we can’t be sure.

  79. Circus Mom says:

    Sorry Hammer, I was replying to newbie and realized this was the numbers thread after I hit send.

  80. Rita says:

    [quote comment="311965"]Thanks Rita that really helped. Do you think that definition of dharma relates to anything?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    From LOSTpedia:
    The word DHARMA was revealed to be an backronym in the Official Lost Podcast. Later in the ARG The Lost Experience, through the clues of Rachel Blake (known as the hacker Persephone at that time), players were directed to play a memory game available at the Hanso Foundation’s website. Gradually the acronym was revealed and upon reaching level 42, the full acronym DHARMA was revealed as being “Department of Heuristics And Research on Material Applications”. The acronym was later confirmed by Alvar Hanso in the Sri Lanka Video and in an ABC press release [1].

    Little is known what the actual explanation behind the name is, although a heuristic is a particular technique of directing one’s attention in learning, discovery, or problem-solving.[2] Also, in the Sri Lanka Video, Alvar Hanso (standing in front of the DHARMA acronym) says “it also stands for the one true way”, a reference to the word’s meaning in Sanskrit.
    I think the name is meaningful on several levels. At this point, all meanings are equally valid and are clues to the ultimate end.

  81. new losty says:

    Oh. That DHARMA is an abreveation. Thanks I hadn’t thought it related but I wanted to check.

  82. Jaime says:

    What if the time shifts are happening at 4,8,15,16,23,42 minutes apart? Like a ripple in time… moving further and further away. There was a point when one time shift happens with one shortly after (just after Locke is shot). That could have been the 15,16. Maybe we could go back and count the number of shifts that happen. Maybe they will keep shifting further and further until they reach the 70 hour point…then?????

  83. Jaime says:

    In “Jughead,” we learn that Locke was born in 1956, and gives Richard the compass in 1954; Richard doesn’t seem convinced by Locke’s claim the Richard gave him the compass. This means Richard visited Locke around 1961 or 1962. That would put Richard’s visit some 42 years before Richard gave Locke the compass on the island during the flashes — and there’s one of the numbers, 42. Hmmmmmmm

  84. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="312141"]What if the time shifts are happening at 4,8,15,16,23,42 minutes apart? Like a ripple in time… moving further and further away. There was a point when one time shift happens with one shortly after (just after Locke is shot). That could have been the 15,16. Maybe we could go back and count the number of shifts that happen. Maybe they will keep shifting further and further until they reach the 70 hour point…then?????[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Good thought, keep that one in mind.

  85. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="311991"][quote comment="311977"]
    All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.[/quote]

    Well then, find a different thread! THIS is the NUMBERS THEORY thread.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Blah blah blah;
    well, that IS my theory; that all this nonsense is not what the drama is all about…it’s simply boring.
    It’s like some guy who yaks on and on about Music Theory yet cannot play a single tune with any kind of feeling.
    So sorry to ruffle the feathers, not.

  86. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="311977"]To hell with the numbers;
    I want to know how the hell Freckles was able to get off from the crimes the Police were chasing her for?
    All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I put your answer in the ‘There’s No Place Like Home, Part 2′ thread.

  87. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="312146"][quote comment="311991"][quote comment="311977"]
    All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.[/quote]

    Well then, find a different thread! THIS is the NUMBERS THEORY thread.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    You would be well served to read the 5th bullet point in the guidelines for posting on this blog. Then read 2nd one as you have violated both.
    Blah blah blah;
    well, that IS my theory; that all this nonsense is not what the drama is all about…it’s simply boring.
    It’s like some guy who yaks on and on about Music Theory yet cannot play a single tune with any kind of feeling.
    So sorry to ruffle the feathers, not.[/quote]

  88. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="312151"][quote comment="312146"][quote comment="311991"][quote comment="311977"]
    All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.[/quote]

    Well then, find a different thread! THIS is the NUMBERS THEORY thread.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Blah blah blah;
    well, that IS my theory; that all this nonsense is not what the drama is all about…it’s simply boring.
    It’s like some guy who yaks on and on about Music Theory yet cannot play a single tune with any kind of feeling.
    So sorry to ruffle the feathers, not.[/quote][/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Let me fix that….
    You would be well served to read the 5th bullet point in the guidelines for posting on this blog. Then read 2nd one as you have violated both.

  89. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="312143"][quote comment="312141"]What if the time shifts are happening at 4,8,15,16,23,42 minutes apart? Like a ripple in time… moving further and further away. There was a point when one time shift happens with one shortly after (just after Locke is shot). That could have been the 15,16. Maybe we could go back and count the number of shifts that happen. Maybe they will keep shifting further and further until they reach the 70 hour point…then?????[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Good thought, keep that one in mind.[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    Can’t take cred for this one. It’s a theory i read and really liked. Thought it would be a good point to possibly dissect on this thread

  90. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="312146"]Blah blah blah;
    well, that IS my theory; that all this nonsense is not what the drama is all about…it’s simply boring.
    It’s like some guy who yaks on and on about Music Theory yet cannot play a single tune with any kind of feeling.
    So sorry to ruffle the feathers, not.[/quote]

    I guess I “simply” don’t understand, Bobola. If you think that what we are writing here is “nonsense” and “not what the drama is all about” and “boring” then why do you continue to visit this thread? Generally, when someone does something which they find unappealing, they stop doing it.

    : ) P

  91. Hurley's Dad says:

    Not sure what all this means..I’ll let you guys theorize. :)

    From Lostpedia interview with David Fury, writer of “Numbers” (1×18)

    Lostpedia: Speaking of the Numbers, who came up with them? What is their origin, and why those numbers rather than others? Whose decision was it to drop in references to these numbers in subsequent episodes as easter eggs for the fans?

    J.J., Damon and I met at some restaurant on our day off to break that episode. Hurley winning the lottery was Damon’s idea. But I believe the “Numbers” and their importance was J.J.’s. When I started writing the episode, I already figured to use numbers that had been heard on the show… 4 (number of years Locke was in wheelchair); 8, 15 (Flight 815), etc. When I confirmed my number choices with Damon, I was still missing the last number. I had thought to make it “42” (an homage to Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy – Answer to the Ultimate Question). When Damon had the same idea, that clinched it. It was my idea to have the numbers engraved on the hatch at the end of the episode. After that, I can only assume Damon is the easter egg dropper.

  92. Rita says:

    [quote comment="312109"]Oh. That DHARMA is an abreveation. Thanks I hadn’t thought it related but I wanted to check.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Yes, it is an acronym (or a bacronym – I had to look that one up!), but you weren’t wrong about it having several other meanings as well – it IS a Hindi word, as you said, with religious meanings. There is a definite spiritual emphasis on the island (remember Eko the priest for example), so hang in there New LOSTy! EVERYTHING is related as far as we know!

  93. new losty says:

    I’ve got a new theroy what if desmoned had typed in the numbers to stop the island from jumping

  94. Radcliffe says:

    The Island is a spaceship that can travel through space and time. Ben is just being used by the Aliens to gather Intel. and get baby’s to be breed on that Island so they can expand.
    Aliens such as Richard and the rest of them can’t reproduce on earth, and Dharma came to the Island when they figured, that’s where a meteor landed through scientific research. Thinking that it was a meteor of somekind crashed unto earth, they fowllowed the trail. When members from Dharma got there miracles started to happen to them such as special healing abilities (damn hippies lol). But no spaceship! so they thought but instead they found that they weren’t the first inhabitants of that island. (Because they didn’t know that what they thought was a meteor was actually a UFO

  95. Rita says:

    [quote comment="312216"]The Island is a spaceship that can travel through space and time. Ben is just being used by the Aliens to gather Intel. and get baby’s to be breed on that Island so they can expand.
    Aliens such as Richard and the rest of them can’t reproduce on earth, and Dharma came to the Island when they figured, that’s where a meteor landed through scientific research. Thinking that it was a meteor of somekind crashed unto earth, they fowllowed the trail. When members from Dharma got there miracles started to happen to them such as special healing abilities (damn hippies lol). But no spaceship! so they thought but instead they found that they weren’t the first inhabitants of that island. (Because they didn’t know that what they thought was a meteor was actually a UFO[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I sure hope not.

  96. new losty says:

    [quote comment="312216"]The Island is a spaceship that can travel through space and time. Ben is just being used by the Aliens to gather Intel. and get baby’s to be breed on that Island so they can expand.
    Aliens such as Richard and the rest of them can’t reproduce on earth, and Dharma came to the Island when they figured, that’s where a meteor landed through scientific research. Thinking that it was a meteor of somekind crashed unto earth, they fowllowed the trail. When members from Dharma got there miracles started to happen to them such as special healing abilities (damn hippies lol). But no spaceship! so they thought but instead they found that they weren’t the first inhabitants of that island. (Because they didn’t know that what they thought was a meteor was actually a UFO[/quote]
    Okay but what does that have to do with the numbers? Where did you get that thery anyway

  97. Wafflecopter says:

    [quote comment="311948"][quote comment="311943"]OK, here’s something I’ve been mulling over. I read through this, I hope I’m not posting something that’s already up. I think we need to boil this down to a simpler problem. Farady said something very important when he said you can move up and back along the time line, but not away from it (I’m TOTALLY paraphrasing there). So I wonder what happens if you DO move away? What I mean is what if one of the O6 does something because they are not where they are “supposed” to be. For example, Jack is driving around and he hits someone in his car, that person was supposed to be the next president. You see where I’m going? All of a sudden EVERYTHING is messed up. What if in 70 hours, one of the O6 does something to really “screw up time”? This might be full of holes, if it is let me know.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I think what Ms Hawkings was telling Des (during his purple sky event travels) that you CAN’T change things (as in it is impossible, rather than just that you aren’t suppose to) because even if you TRY TO (ala Desmond trying to save Charlie’s life), it will “course correct” and what was SUPPOSE to happen, will happen another way, but it WILL happen. The bigger question seems to be, if the “rules” don’t apply to everyone, can THEY (like Desmond) change things? THEN what?[/quote]

    Ooh, idea time!

    I think you guys hit on something there, but take it back a little. Everyone says the 06 were not supposed to leave the island. When Ben up-anchored it in time with the donkey wheel, the 06 were supposed to be on it. Now the island is skipping time because it is trying to “course correct.” Sort of like the idea of the island trying to find them, but not exactly.

    Like Charlie’s death, I think Desmond’s adventures interfered with the island-time. It is up to Desmond to determine what happens, just like it was up to him to decide what incident would kill Charlie. In the end, Charlie’s death wasn’t in vain. Maybe it will be the same thing for the 06.

  98. Radcliffe says:

    The Island is a spaceship that can travel through space and time. Ben is just being used by the Aliens to gather Intel. and get baby’s to be breed on that Island so they can expand.
    Aliens such as Richard and the rest of them can’t reproduce on earth, and Dharma came to the Island when they figured, that’s where a meteor landed through scientific research. Thinking that it was a meteor of somekind crashed unto earth, they fowllowed the trail. When members from Dharma got there miracles started to happen to them such as special healing abilities (damn hippies lol). But no spaceship! so they thought but instead they found that they weren’t the first inhabitants of that island. (Because they didn’t know that what they thought was a meteor was actually a UFO

    I thought this was a general Lost Theory blog, sorry about my blog it has nothing to do with numbers but I do believe if you take this into consideration it will unlock “Other” things to come

  99. Radcliffe says:

    “Jughead” is the bomb the Army who was suppose tp use to blow up this spaceship they found during 50′s and held as classified information so no one would panic, the numbers are like a SOS signal sent from the spaceship to whoever are linked through space and time directly to the island (spaceship, that’s the best I can come up with so far!

  100. Radcliffe says:

    Jughead” is the bomb the Army was suppose to use to blow up this spaceship they found during 50’s and held as classified information so no one would panic, the numbers are like a SOS signal sent from the spaceship to whoever are linked through space and time directly to the island (spaceship), that’s the best I can come up with so far!*********************

  101. PuRe says:

    I think Kate is number 23. In the first season (Exodus part 3) Hurley is muttering the numbers an Kate asks him what he was saying as she thinks she heard 23. He replies why does it mean something to you? She says the guy who called the fed on me in Australia did it for $23,000.

    what do you guys think?

  102. DocH says:

    I think the “Little Prince” will have a big influence on the “numbers”. The last thing we saw off-island, before this episode was Math Witch Hawking doing her equation voo-doo with Ben.

  103. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="312500"]I think the “Little Prince” will have a big influence on the “numbers”. The last thing we saw off-island, before this episode was Math Witch Hawking doing her equation voo-doo with Ben.[/quote]
    Yes, yes…you are onto something.

  104. Rita says:

    [quote comment="312526"][quote comment="312500"]I think the “Little Prince” will have a big influence on the “numbers”. The last thing we saw off-island, before this episode was Math Witch Hawking doing her equation voo-doo with Ben.[/quote]
    Yes, yes…you are onto something.[/quote]
    ______________________________
    I hope so. It’s time for more info about – what did you call her before? – the VooDoo Math Priestess? (love it!)

  105. Rita says:

    Ben told Jack to meet at slip 23 – the numbers again!

  106. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="312155"][quote comment="312146"]Blah blah blah;
    well, that IS my theory; that all this nonsense is not what the drama is all about…it’s simply boring.
    It’s like some guy who yaks on and on about Music Theory yet cannot play a single tune with any kind of feeling.
    So sorry to ruffle the feathers, not.[/quote]

    I guess I “simply” don’t understand, Bobola. If you think that what we are writing here is “nonsense” and “not what the drama is all about” and “boring” then why do you continue to visit this thread? Generally, when someone does something which they find unappealing, they stop doing it.

    : ) P[/quote]

    I just find it amusing to annoy the geeks.
    I guess there’s a little Sawyer in me by the numbers freaks only like him as a fictional character.
    HA!

  107. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="312152"][quote comment="312151"][quote comment="312146"][quote comment="311991"][quote comment="311977"]
    All this numbers theory stuff is so boring.[/quote]

    Well then, find a different thread! THIS is the NUMBERS THEORY thread.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Blah blah blah;
    well, that IS my theory; that all this nonsense is not what the drama is all about…it’s simply boring.
    It’s like some guy who yaks on and on about Music Theory yet cannot play a single tune with any kind of feeling.
    So sorry to ruffle the feathers, not.[/quote][/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Let me fix that….
    You would be well served to read the 5th bullet point in the guidelines for posting on this blog. Then read 2nd one as you have violated both.[/quote]

    ——-
    And where in the Bullet points does it say HAMMER is appointed to be the Official Scold?
    Get over yourself. Hammer?
    More like Tool.

  108. Rita says:

    Have to say I LOVED THE EPISODE! A little sad that we didn’t get all our answers (once again!) but there’s always next week. Not even a glimps of the voo-doo math Priestess! No more 70 hour window mentioned – just the urgency by Ben and now Jack. The only numbers references I could spot were the marina slip #23, and the French scientists mentioning they were following the numbers (and then got caught in the island). The story progressed (yea!) but not the numbers. Please tell me I missed something!

  109. Hammer says:

    Here’s one you missed:

    SAYID: Do we know anyone who lives at 42 Panorama Crest?

    JACK: That’s Kate’s address.

  110. Circus Mom says:

    Bobola,

    Since you enjoy arguing so much here is my suggestion. From this point on, nobody engage. If Bobola makes good suggestions or comments acknoledge them, otherwise, he’s invisible.

    I hope Bobola participates with good theories. That is always more fun.

  111. Rita says:

    [quote comment="312941"]Here’s one you missed:

    SAYID: Do we know anyone who lives at 42 Panorama Crest?

    JACK: That’s Kate’s address.[/quote]
    __________________________
    Thanks Hammer, there are ALWAYS more numbers!

  112. jack says:

    heres a theroy every one on the island will die so they go back to save them but they are also going back to save the island from an infinate time lap that could change the events on the island

  113. new losty says:

    What if hugo dosen’t go back to the island and the 6 are
    john ben jack kate aron and sun.
    just a thought I don’t know if it is true but I have anthor thery that ben isn’t supposed to go back to the island and he need the O6 because he knows the island won’t turn all of them away cause what does he care about them.

  114. Rita says:

    I don’t think it matters how many people go back, so long as it is EVERYONE – how ever many it turns out to be.

  115. Monika says:

    4 + 8 + 15 +16 +23 + 42 = 108

    108 is :
    -number of minutes for countdown in hatch
    -number of days they spent after the crash till Mumbata
    -they were rescued on 108th day by Penny…which was January 8th 2005…or let me put it this way

    8.1.’5

    Do you see that every third year something happens…2001 Desmond and Juliette came on the island…2004 Losties crashed…2007/08 they are coming back…

    Next thing…Jack was sitting in seat 23 on the plane…so maybe its the numbers of their seats….hm…

    70h is the time left until portal opens again…in a sense that in 70 hours the island will be for some time in the same time as O6 which is 2007 end/2008 start…

    The term Dharma is an Indian spiritual and religious term, that means one’s righteous duty, or any virtuous path in the common sense of the term.
    In Indian languages it contextually implies one’s religion. Throughout Indian philosophy, Dharma is presented as a central concept that is used in order to explain the “higher truth” or ultimate reality of the universe.
    The word dharma literally translates as that which upholds or supports, and is generally translated into English as law. The word “dharma” can also be translated as “the teachings of the Buddha”.

    and you now what I saw ….
    Six realms
    1. Deva
    2. Asura
    3. Human Being
    4. Animal
    5. Hungry Ghost
    6. Naraka

    The Bhavacakra or “Wheel of Life” is a very useful and popular teaching tool. It is a kind of diagram which portrays these realms and the mechanism that causes these samsaric rebirths. In this depiction, the realm of the Devas is shown at the top, followed clockwise by the realms of the Asuras, the Pretas, Naraka, Animals, and Humans. Close examination will show that the Buddha is shown as being present in every one of these realms.
    Leading from the human realm to the outside of the wheel depicts the Buddhist path. (Epstein 1995, p.15-16)
    The areas between the six spokes represent the six forms of unenlightened existence.

    The wheel has a form of our very own “donkey wheel” that Ben pushed…coincidence? Dont think so…and its like a PORTAL of Buddhism.. and let me tell you about Richard Alpert…Harvard professor who changed his name to Ram Das after being kicked from Harvard for using LSD…he went to India and started learning about Buddhism..he wrote a book BE HERE NOW….or BE NOWHERE …or BE KAHANA….ring any bells…KAHANA means nowhere…book is very interesting…on front cover theres an empty chair with footprints on the floor…hm…Jakob? The movie is great…I have it for some time…and the book is very interesting…page 108 is very very interesting…look it up…and not to mention that he did his experiments in 50s went to India in 60s and published his book in beginning of 70s…

  116. Rita says:

    Hey Monica, NICE! Very good stuff. Thanks.

  117. Hammer says:

    Nice ideas Monika…new here? We should hear more from you.

  118. Rita says:

    Monika, I did a little research on your research and here’s what I found:

    1. Deva
    (From Wiki)A deva in Buddhism is one of many different types of non-human beings who share the characteristics of being more powerful, longer-lived, and, in general, living more contentedly than the average human being.
    Also:
    From a human perspective, devas share the characteristic of being invisible to the physical human eye. The presence of a deva can be detected by those humans who have opened the divyacakṣus, an by which one can see beings from other planes. Their voices can also be heard by those who have cultivated a similar power of the ear.

    Most devas are also capable of constructing illusory forms by which they can manifest themselves to the beings of lower worlds.

    Devas are also capable of moving great distances speedily and of flying through the air, although the lower devas sometimes accomplish this through magical aids such as a flying chariot.

    All this to say that it seems our Others could DEFINITELY be “devas” – some of our LOSTies have the “abilities” needed to see/hear them. Some have a partial ability, and can only hear whispers. Hurley seems to have full abilities. Maybe this is what being “special” means to the Others.

    6. Naraka – according to Wiki, means HELL, or a state of being in hell, not the western concept, but a karma pay-back state of being in mental and anxiety until the karma debt is paid.

    Anyway Monika – this is great stuff and absolutely applies to our LOST!

  119. Rita says:

    [quote comment="313238"]

    … but a karma pay-back state of being in mental and anxiety …
    [/quote]

    Sorry, typing too fast! Should read “mental ANGUISH and anxiety…” Thanks again Monika! :)

  120. shawn says:

    First time poster. Read most of th thread above save for a few. not sure if this is mentioned or not, but what if the numbers somehow represent the amount of time between flashes? or perhaps how much time is traveled on each consecutive flash? just a thought.

  121. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="313250"]First time poster. Read most of th thread above save for a few. not sure if this is mentioned or not, but what if the numbers somehow represent the amount of time between flashes? or perhaps how much time is traveled on each consecutive flash? just a thought.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Welcome. Though I think you are likely correct that the time between flashes correlate to the numbers, I don’t think that is their main purpose. I think we still need to find out what each number represents in the equation and whether or not Ms. Hawking was using the equation to find out how long ’till the end of the world.

    Just MO.

  122. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="313238"]Monika, I did a little research on your research and here’s what I found:

    1. Deva
    (From Wiki)A deva in Buddhism is one of many different types of non-human beings who share the characteristics of being more powerful, longer-lived, and, in general, living more contentedly than the average human being.
    Also:
    From a human perspective, devas share the characteristic of being invisible to the physical human eye. The presence of a deva can be detected by those humans who have opened the divyacakṣus, an by which one can see beings from other planes. Their voices can also be heard by those who have cultivated a similar power of the ear.

    Most devas are also capable of constructing illusory forms by which they can manifest themselves to the beings of lower worlds.

    Devas are also capable of moving great distances speedily and of flying through the air, although the lower devas sometimes accomplish this through magical aids such as a flying chariot.

    All this to say that it seems our Others could DEFINITELY be “devas” – some of our LOSTies have the “abilities” needed to see/hear them. Some have a partial ability, and can only hear whispers. Hurley seems to have full abilities. Maybe this is what being “special” means to the Others.

    6. Naraka – according to Wiki, means HELL, or a state of being in hell, not the western concept, but a karma pay-back state of being in mental and anxiety until the karma debt is paid.

    Anyway Monika – this is great stuff and absolutely applies to our LOST![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++==
    Sounds like Smokey too. Maybe the Devas are Smokey?

  123. Rita says:

    [quote comment="313333"][quote comment="313238"][/quote]
    +++++++++++++++==
    Sounds like Smokey too. Maybe the Devas are Smokey?[/quote]
    I was thinking about Richard, but I could see smokey too. Also, the Naraka, being ‘hell’ of a sort, sounds like the LOSTies having to face their past selves, and are living in this naraka state until they do.

  124. Stymie says:

    If Dez imputting the numbers was so important, why wouldn’t their be a backup, replacements, etc.? Ben obviously knew that Dez was in the hatch by himself.

  125. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="313365"]If Dez imputting the numbers was so important, why wouldn’t their be a backup, replacements, etc.? Ben obviously knew that Dez was in the hatch by himself.[/quote]
    Who was broadcasting the numbers before Danielle changed the broadcast? I’m wondering if it will be one of our losties during travel to the past in order to insure Danielle’s arrivial and perhaps Hurley’s.

  126. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="313365"]If Dez imputting the numbers was so important, why wouldn’t their be a backup, replacements, etc.? Ben obviously knew that Dez was in the hatch by himself.[/quote]
    Ummmmm, there was a back up, the ‘fail safe’ key. And as far as Ben would be concerned, as long as Des was alive and ‘button pushing’ he didn’t need to worry about it.

  127. Hammer says:

    Stymie, the second paragraph is the important one about Ben ‘obviously’ knowing that Des was alone in the Swan.

    (from lostpedia)

    The Others initially seemed to have no knowledge of the purpose or function of the Swan station. Shortly after the castaways entered the Swan, the Others became aware of what they had done via surveillance. On November 7, 2004 (three days after the castaways entered the Swan) Tom is known to have used the Pearl to observe the interior of the Swan. Two days later, Ben and Juliet visited the Pearl to briefly observe Jack. At that time, Ben outlined a plan that strongly suggested that the Others were able to send messages to the Swan computer from an unknown location. These messages were apparently directed at Michael.

    In the March 20, 2007 Official Lost Podcast, Carlton Cuse confirmed that The Others had no knowledge of the Swan station; hence, Radzinsky, Kelvin Joe Inman, and/or Desmond were not killed during the Purge along with the rest of the DHARMA Initiative.

  128. Zach says:

    ok,the numbers (4,8,15,16,23, 42) add up to 108, the amount of time after which a button must be pressed to save the world

    and if each O6 is one of the numbers, they all add up to something else that will save the world, i guess returning to the island together

    so isn’t 108 the day that the O6 got rescued off the island? hmmm.

  129. Zach says:

    ok,the numbers (4,8,15,16,23, 42) add up to 108, the amount of time after which a button must be pressed to save the world

    and if each O6 is one of the numbers, they all add up to something else that will save the world, i guess returning to the island together

    so isn’t 108 the number of days after the crash that the O6 got rescued off the island? hmmm.

  130. PuRe says:

    [quote comment="313210"]4 + 8 + 15 +16 +23 + 42 = 108

    108 is :
    -number of minutes for countdown in hatch
    -number of days they spent after the crash till Mumbata
    -they were rescued on 108th day by Penny…which was January 8th 2005…or let me put it this way

    8.1.’5

    Do you see that every third year something happens…2001 Desmond and Juliette came on the island…2004 Losties crashed…2007/08 they are coming back…

    Next thing…Jack was sitting in seat 23 on the plane…so maybe its the numbers of their seats….hm…

    70h is the time left until portal opens again…in a sense that in 70 hours the island will be for some time in the same time as O6 which is 2007 end/2008 start…

    The term Dharma is an Indian spiritual and religious term, that means one’s righteous duty, or any virtuous path in the common sense of the term.
    In Indian languages it contextually implies one’s religion. Throughout Indian philosophy, Dharma is presented as a central concept that is used in order to explain the “higher truth” or ultimate reality of the universe.
    The word dharma literally translates as that which upholds or supports, and is generally translated into English as law. The word “dharma” can also be translated as “the teachings of the Buddha”.

    and you now what I saw ….
    Six realms
    1. Deva
    2. Asura
    3. Human Being
    4. Animal
    5. Hungry Ghost
    6. Naraka

    The Bhavacakra or “Wheel of Life” is a very useful and popular teaching tool. It is a kind of diagram which portrays these realms and the mechanism that causes these samsaric rebirths. In this depiction, the realm of the Devas is shown at the top, followed clockwise by the realms of the Asuras, the Pretas, Naraka, Animals, and Humans. Close examination will show that the Buddha is shown as being present in every one of these realms.
    Leading from the human realm to the outside of the wheel depicts the Buddhist path. (Epstein 1995, p.15-16)
    The areas between the six spokes represent the six forms of unenlightened existence.

    The wheel has a form of our very own “donkey wheel” that Ben pushed…coincidence? Dont think so…and its like a PORTAL of Buddhism.. and let me tell you about Richard Alpert…Harvard professor who changed his name to Ram Das after being kicked from Harvard for using LSD…he went to India and started learning about Buddhism..he wrote a book BE HERE NOW….or BE NOWHERE …or BE KAHANA….ring any bells…KAHANA means nowhere…book is very interesting…on front cover theres an empty chair with footprints on the floor…hm…Jakob? The movie is great…I have it for some time…and the book is very interesting…page 108 is very very interesting…look it up…and not to mention that he did his experiments in 50s went to India in 60s and published his book in beginning of 70s…[/quote]

    Jack was actually in seat 42F

  131. Hammer says:

    Maybe being able to change the past/future without course correction is how you change a factor in the equation (numbers)?

  132. fitty says:

    [quote comment="311013"]Could the numbers somehow relate to the items that were set out by Guyliner for young Locke?

    6 numbers
    6 items (baseball glove, book of laws, sand/earth, compass, comic book and knife)[/quote]

    very interesting

  133. matthew g says:

    i just want to hint about this lost site: http://www.spotep.com/#serieid=lost

  134. DocH says:

    The numbers will figure prominently in the time flashes back to Dharma-ville.

  135. Ron says:

    [quote comment="314545"][quote comment="313210"]4 + 8 + 15 +16 +23 + 42 = 108

    108 is :
    -number of minutes for countdown in hatch
    -number of days they spent after the crash till Mumbata
    -they were rescued on 108th day by Penny…which was January 8th 2005…or let me put it this way

    8.1.’5

    Do you see that every third year something happens…2001 Desmond and Juliette came on the island…2004 Losties crashed…2007/08 they are coming back…

    Next thing…Jack was sitting in seat 23 on the plane…so maybe its the numbers of their seats….hm…

    70h is the time left until portal opens again…in a sense that in 70 hours the island will be for some time in the same time as O6 which is 2007 end/2008 start…

    The term Dharma is an Indian spiritual and religious term, that means one’s righteous duty, or any virtuous path in the common sense of the term.
    In Indian languages it contextually implies one’s religion. Throughout Indian philosophy, Dharma is presented as a central concept that is used in order to explain the “higher truth” or ultimate reality of the universe.
    The word dharma literally translates as that which upholds or supports, and is generally translated into English as law. The word “dharma” can also be translated as “the teachings of the Buddha”.

    and you now what I saw ….
    Six realms
    1. Deva
    2. Asura
    3. Human Being
    4. Animal
    5. Hungry Ghost
    6. Naraka

    The Bhavacakra or “Wheel of Life” is a very useful and popular teaching tool. It is a kind of diagram which portrays these realms and the mechanism that causes these samsaric rebirths. In this depiction, the realm of the Devas is shown at the top, followed clockwise by the realms of the Asuras, the Pretas, Naraka, Animals, and Humans. Close examination will show that the Buddha is shown as being present in every one of these realms.
    Leading from the human realm to the outside of the wheel depicts the Buddhist path. (Epstein 1995, p.15-16)
    The areas between the six spokes represent the six forms of unenlightened existence.

    The wheel has a form of our very own “donkey wheel” that Ben pushed…coincidence? Dont think so…and its like a PORTAL of Buddhism.. and let me tell you about Richard Alpert…Harvard professor who changed his name to Ram Das after being kicked from Harvard for using LSD…he went to India and started learning about Buddhism..he wrote a book BE HERE NOW….or BE NOWHERE …or BE KAHANA….ring any bells…KAHANA means nowhere…book is very interesting…on front cover theres an empty chair with footprints on the floor…hm…Jakob? The movie is great…I have it for some time…and the book is very interesting…page 108 is very very interesting…look it up…and not to mention that he did his experiments in 50s went to India in 60s and published his book in beginning of 70s…[/quote]

    Jack was actually in seat 42F[/quote]

    Jack was sitting in seat 23, remember Anna lucia was sitting in seat 42(aka the wing)

    i also had a theory… Jack was the leader of the 42 survivors and Anna lucia was the leader of the other 23 from the tail section. Both match their seat numbers in the plane…

    It might of already been discussed , not too sure.
    ps. forgive my spelling

  136. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318194"]The numbers will figure prominently in the time flashes back to Dharma-ville.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Gosh, I hope so. I want to see if there is any validity to the Valenzetti equation.

  137. Hammer says:

    Hammer
    Comment 15, posted 0 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Circus Mom wrote:

    Let’s say Daniel is correct and you can’t change things but Dharma is working on being able to change things. Dr. Chang commented that he hoped those watching the video about the upcoming purge that they couldn’t prevent it but he hoped that those in the future could. Widmore is working to be able to change the past, and using Desmond, because he thinks the island is his. Hawkings is working to make sure what happened, happened because she knows that once you can change the future all hell will break loose.

    +++++++++++++++
    Isn’t that the kind of the whole point of the Valenzetti equation and the numbers? To try to change something to stop the end of the world? One of the ‘factors’ needs to change in order to stop ‘whatever happened, happened’?

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