316

316_jack_s5.jpg
Tonight is all about learning how exactly the Oceanic 6 can/will get back to the Island. At the conclusion of last week’s episode, you will recall a couple of things happening:

  • Jack, Desmond, Sun and Ben met with Eloise Hawking and she was preparing to show them the way back to the Island
  • Locke (in theory) put the frozen donkey wheel back on its proper axis – which in turn should accomplish two things – sending him away from the Island (Tunisia perhaps?) and preventing the Island from skipping through time anymore

ABC’s Official Show Description

Spoiler Alert

“The members of Oceanic 6 discover how to get back to the island, but not all of them want to return.”

The centricity of tonight’s show is again hard to pinpoint, the title itself possibly alludes to a C.S Lewis novel (according to Doc Jensen). It will be interesting to see who actually goes back to the Island and if that happens tonight. There should be a couple character surprises tonight – so keep your eyes peeled during the show!

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552 Responses to 316

  1. kindly says:

    I’m SO excited for tonight!

  2. NikkiV says:

    I would like to remind that the number “316″ has been used before..as a bible reference.

    I’m sure a lot of folks are following along as well.

    John 3:16, a biblical verse, was located in the source code on the Ajira Airways website.

    John 3:16 states: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

  3. vavila says:

    Contaxt info from wiki on john 3:16:

    The verse occurs in a narrative in the New Testament third chapter of John taking place in Jerusalem. Nicodemus, a member of the ruling council, comes to talk with Jesus, whom he calls Rabbi. Jesus’ miracles have convinced Nicodemus that Jesus is sent from God. In reply, Jesus declares, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again” (verses 5–6). John 3:16 summarizes Jesus’s lesson to Nicodemus: that belief in Jesus is the only path to eternal life.

    Note that you can see the ‘kigdom of God’ if you are ‘born again’ – I think that Christian’s and Locke’s death are necessary to be ‘born again’ and are a part of becoming initiated i.e. addimitted to the Temple, trusted to protect the island etc…

  4. ESB says:

    so, if turning/correcting the wheel does send John to Tunisia, i would like to know how he is supposed to get to L.A.?

    i mean Ben had passports, aliases and MONEY…what does John have?

    can’t wait to see how he accomplishes that little trick…

  5. Rita says:

    Wow, I’m thinking this might be the very best episode yet!! Bring it on!

  6. m says:

    This is pretty obvious: John 3:16 is all about the sacrifice to save the others. John “has to die” to save the others.

  7. Rita says:

    FYI (for us LOST obsessed!)
    tvguide.com has a poll that says American Idol will be on at the same time as LOST starting March 11 (when AI will get down to business) – they want to know which show people will be watching, and it is LOST hands down! (duh!) Just thought that was interesting.
    Check it out and add your comments at:

    http://www.tvguide.com/News/Idol-Lost-Wednesday-1002979.aspx

  8. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="314959"]FYI (for us LOST obsessed!)
    tvguide.com has a poll that says American Idol will be on at the same time as LOST starting March 11 (when AI will get down to business) – they want to know which show people will be watching, and it is LOST hands down! (duh!) Just thought that was interesting.
    Check it out and add your comments at:

    http://www.tvguide.com/News/Idol-Lost-Wednesday-1002979.aspx%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks, Rita. I added my 2¢ to the comments, but if there is a true poll, with percentages, I didn’t find it. I didn’t read ALL the comments, but the overwhelming majority are LOST fans. That may be more to do with LOST fans trolling the internet on Wednesdays than anything else! LOL

    : ) P

  9. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”314968
    Thanks, Rita. I added my 2¢ to the comments, but if there is a true poll, with percentages, I didn’t find it. I didn’t read ALL the comments, but the overwhelming majority are LOST fans. That may be more to do with LOST fans trolling the internet on Wednesdays than anything else! LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Beautifully written over there PJ, all I could do was ‘second’ you. :)

  10. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="314957"]This is pretty obvious: John 3:16 is all about the sacrifice to save the others. John “has to die” to save the others.[/quote]##################################################

    as with most things Lost related it probably pertains to a couple possible meanings. The ones you state above, a new bearing back to the island etc. Any other guesses?

  11. Jaime says:

    Tonight is going to be one of the best Lost eps. for me. I just purchased a brand new flatscreen with HD and a full surround sound set up. This is how Lost should be watched. Now i just need Tivo for the rewind action. :) Bring it on

  12. lost4ever says:

    316?

    Isn’t that the sign people hold up when kicking a field goal in football? JOHN 3:16

    We now know Ben was trying to take Aaron away from Kate, was he also the one trying to get to Sayid? Maybe Ben knows that is the only way Sayid will go to the island, sedated.

  13. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="314976"]Tonight is going to be one of the best Lost eps. for me. I just purchased a brand new flatscreen with HD and a full surround sound set up. This is how Lost should be watched. Now i just need Tivo for the rewind action. :) Bring it on[/quote]

    We have a really nice Hi-Def tv and it IS wonderful watching LOST in HD. Our TiVo, though, is basic old-school so it doesn’t even pick up HD. We MUST watch it live to experience the *true* LOST, but then watch it a second time for the “rewind action” on the regular digital version. I hear you!

    Enjoy your new experience!

    : ) P

  14. lost4ever says:

    I wonder if Airja Airways has a flight 316?

  15. Hammer says:

    John 3:16…..emphasis on the JOHN(Locke).

  16. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="314978"][quote comment="314976"]Tonight is going to be one of the best Lost eps. for me. I just purchased a brand new flatscreen with HD and a full surround sound set up. This is how Lost should be watched. Now i just need Tivo for the rewind action. :) Bring it on[/quote]

    We have a really nice Hi-Def tv and it IS wonderful watching LOST in HD. Our TiVo, though, is basic old-school so it doesn’t even pick up HD. We MUST watch it live to experience the *true* LOST, but then watch it a second time for the “rewind action” on the regular digital version. I hear you!

    Enjoy your new experience!

    : ) P[/quote]
    *********************************************
    Yes!! Thank you, i will FULLY enjoy it it all its surround sound HD glory :)

  17. I’ve actually petitioned a local movie theatre to allow a LOST fan club to watch the show live on one of their projectors in the theatre. I haven’t gotten anywhere yet but we shall see what happens!!

  18. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="314979"]I wonder if Airja Airways has a flight 316?[/quote]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:

    “The Devil’s Sea (魔の海, Ma no Umi?) or Dragon’s Triangle or The Pacific Bermuda Triangle is a region of the Pacific around Miyake Island, about 100 km south of Tokyo. One of the triangle’s corners is said to be on the island of Guam.” – from wikipedia

    Then they land on the small island runway that they Others where building (Kate and Sawyer doing the rock busting when they were kept in the bear cages).

  19. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="314977"]316?
    We now know Ben was trying to take Aaron away from Kate…[/quote]

    DO we know that? I think he was just trying to make Kate feel unsafe in her home and willing to go back to the island.

  20. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="314988"][quote comment="314979"]I wonder if Airja Airways has a flight 316?[/quote]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:

    “The Devil’s Sea (魔の海, Ma no Umi?) or Dragon’s Triangle or The Pacific Bermuda Triangle is a region of the Pacific around Miyake Island, about 100 km south of Tokyo. One of the triangle’s corners is said to be on the island of Guam.” – from wikipedia

    Then they land on the small island runway that they Others where building (Kate and Sawyer doing the rock busting when they were kept in the bear cages).[/quote]
    *******************************************
    Land or Crash?? hmmm

  21. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="314988"]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:
    [/quote]
    Nice. Is that on the Airja website?

  22. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="314992"][quote comment="314988"]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:
    [/quote]
    Nice. Is that on the Airja website?[/quote]
    +++++++++
    It’s from the DWY game, it’s part of the correct info that you punch in.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ajira_Airways

  23. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="314990"][quote comment="314977"]316?
    We now know Ben was trying to take Aaron away from Kate…[/quote]

    DO we know that? I think he was just trying to make Kate feel unsafe in her home and willing to go back to the island.[/quote]
    I am fairly certain Ben’s admission to Kate, in front of Jack, was proof. JMO:)

  24. duke says:

    Just thinking about the rules. How you can’t change the past/future. Does course correction=change? I believe that it does. It has to be. The O6 will return to the island sometime in the past and will be instrumental in changing err course correcting past mistakes on the island. What those mistakes may be is anyone’s guess but I am convinced that this is the direction of the show. Although this theory could change with further knowledge of developments. Course correction has been a big part of the series and now we will live out the next season and a half watching the Losties and others, yes pun intended, course correct (ie change) past wrong doings. Desmond has already altered Charlie’s fate by saving his life, he allowed Charlie to die a hero’s death. The outcome, Charlie dies, was always meant to be but with a flash from Desmond (or knowledge of what occurs on the island for the Losties et al) they are able to give it, by it I mean the island, different/better ways to get to the end.

  25. ESB says:

    [quote comment="314976"]Tonight is going to be one of the best Lost eps. for me. I just purchased a brand new flatscreen with HD and a full surround sound set up. This is how Lost should be watched. Now i just need Tivo for the rewind action. :) Bring it on[/quote]

    LOST in HD is definitely COOL…we always watch it uptairs in HD but i always record it so i can watch it again after the rug-rat goes to bed and i have to record it downstairs on a regular tv…haha, bums me out watching it on a regular tv…;)

  26. Rita says:

    [quote comment="314968"][quote comment="314959"]FYI (for us LOST obsessed!)
    tvguide.com has a poll that says American Idol will be on at the same time as LOST starting March 11 (when AI will get down to business) – they want to know which show people will be watching, and it is LOST hands down! (duh!) Just thought that was interesting.
    Check it out and add your comments at:

    http://www.tvguide.com/News/Idol-Lost-Wednesday-1002979.aspx%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks, Rita. I added my 2¢ to the comments, but if there is a true poll, with percentages, I didn’t find it. I didn’t read ALL the comments, but the overwhelming majority are LOST fans. That may be more to do with LOST fans trolling the internet on Wednesdays than anything else! LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    ______________________________
    I’m sorry PJ, I guess I didn’t mean an official poll, but only in the sense that they were asking a question and people were giving their answer. Sorry for the confusion – but the “poll” started Tuesday morning, not just LOST trollers Wednesday, so we are still golden, though I guess you could say that dedicated LOSTies were out trolling the net because it was the end of our LOST week, the day before a new ep!
    Nevertheless, the responses (5 pages of them!) were almost All in favor of watching LOST over ANYTHING, let alone AI. My kind of people!

  27. ESB says:

    [quote comment="314995"][quote comment="314990"][quote comment="314977"]316?
    We now know Ben was trying to take Aaron away from Kate…[/quote]

    DO we know that? I think he was just trying to make Kate feel unsafe in her home and willing to go back to the island.[/quote]
    I am fairly certain Ben’s admission to Kate, in front of Jack, was proof. JMO:)[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    i actually am also under the impression that the lawyer/taking Aaron situation was an elaborate trick by Ben to try and scare Kate back to the island. I don’t think he was really trying to take Aaron at all…JMO ;)

  28. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment="315005"][quote comment="314976"] This is how Lost should be watched. Now i just need Tivo for the rewind action. :) Bring it on[/quote]

    You really ought to get the DVR going. It is so wonderful to be able to record it and fast forward through all of the commercials! I love it! One of the best inventions..well..that and LOST. :)

  29. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315007"]

    i actually am also under the impression that the lawyer/taking Aaron situation was an elaborate trick by Ben to try and scare Kate back to the island. I don’t think he was really trying to take Aaron at all…JMO ;)[/quote]
    I guess I should have clarified better. The first couple weeks there was ALOT of speculation about who was trying to take Aaron away from Kate. Mystery solved. Now I wonder if Ben is also the one after Sayid? That’s all. :)

  30. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315015"][quote comment="315007"]

    i actually am also under the impression that the lawyer/taking Aaron situation was an elaborate trick by Ben to try and scare Kate back to the island. I don’t think he was really trying to take Aaron at all…JMO ;)[/quote]
    I guess I should have clarified better. The first couple weeks there was ALOT of speculation about who was trying to take Aaron away from Kate. Mystery solved. Now I wonder if Ben is also the one after Sayid? That’s all. :)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I thought so, because they were using darts, not bullets. Very ‘Ben’s people’ like.

  31. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315016"]
    I thought so, because they were using darts, not bullets. Very ‘Ben’s people’ like.[/quote]

    Especially since Ben “showed up” at the hospital – probably expecting to have to help Jack move Sayid’s limp body.

    : ) P

  32. Eric says:

    Duke Comment 24

    On whether returning to the island to change past events as the new direction of the show:

    I agree this is the central theme of the show.

    I’m wondering though…

    1)Is the interesting time play proposing something unique in how we view time travel–typical time travel paradox–maybe not here. Change the past and NOT cause a paradox that destroys the world. That is REAL power. I think we all agree time travel is more and more likely to be possible. What’s elusive now is this law. The island could be so cool, so powerful, that it is a way to overcome the paradox that we’re mathematically constrained to.

  33. intolost says:

    NikkiV—Yes, John 3:16. Again, the ultimate theme of redemption in LOST. The way to get back to the island is in a church with the statue of Jesus with open arms outside. The Apostle John was also the messenger of Revelation.

    GUAM! Woohoo! I will be soooooo excited if they mention Guam tonight!

    Jaime, congrats on your new tv!

  34. duke says:

    [quote comment="314975"][quote comment="314957"]This is pretty obvious: John 3:16 is all about the sacrifice to save the others. John “has to die” to save the others.[/quote]##################################################

    as with most things Lost related it probably pertains to a couple possible meanings. The ones you state above, a new bearing back to the island etc. Any other guesses?[/quote]
    Flight number? is my guess

  35. duke says:

    [quote comment="314988"][quote comment="314979"]I wonder if Airja Airways has a flight 316?[/quote]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:

    “The Devil’s Sea (魔の海, Ma no Umi?) or Dragon’s Triangle or The Pacific Bermuda Triangle is a region of the Pacific around Miyake Island, about 100 km south of Tokyo. One of the triangle’s corners is said to be on the island of Guam.” – from wikipedia

    Then they land on the small island runway that they Others where building (Kate and Sawyer doing the rock busting when they were kept in the bear cages).[/quote]
    I do not think that the runway was finished given all the drama that occurred while Kate and Sawyer were working. Also Hammer, I think that you and I believe that they will go back to the past of the island like the 70′s or 80′s so the runway won’t be there if it was finished in 2004-2005. Unless Dharma had one on the island that we do not know about yet.

  36. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315024"][quote comment="314988"][quote comment="314979"]I wonder if Airja Airways has a flight 316?[/quote]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:

    “The Devil’s Sea (魔の海, Ma no Umi?) or Dragon’s Triangle or The Pacific Bermuda Triangle is a region of the Pacific around Miyake Island, about 100 km south of Tokyo. One of the triangle’s corners is said to be on the island of Guam.” – from wikipedia

    Then they land on the small island runway that they Others where building (Kate and Sawyer doing the rock busting when they were kept in the bear cages).[/quote]
    I do not think that the runway was finished given all the drama that occurred while Kate and Sawyer were working. Also Hammer, I think that you and I believe that they will go back to the past of the island like the 70′s or 80′s so the runway won’t be there if it was finished in 2004-2005. Unless Dharma had one on the island that we do not know about yet.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    What may have happened is….remember the skip where it seemed they went forward in time? Camp was abandoned and there was an Aljira water bottle. The O6ers may land in their current time and time travel back to the 70′s to catch up with the skippers.

  37. Hammer says:

    If the island isn’t time traveling and it just moved(which I believe), then when the O6ers get back, it won’t be the 70′s on the island and therefore possible that the runway got finished. They will need to time travel once they get there….?

  38. ESB says:

    [quote comment="315015"][quote comment="315007"]

    i actually am also under the impression that the lawyer/taking Aaron situation was an elaborate trick by Ben to try and scare Kate back to the island. I don’t think he was really trying to take Aaron at all…JMO ;)[/quote]
    I guess I should have clarified better. The first couple weeks there was ALOT of speculation about who was trying to take Aaron away from Kate. Mystery solved. Now I wonder if Ben is also the one after Sayid? That’s all. :)[/quote]

    ******************************************

    gotcha, and all clear…;) and i DEFINITELY think that Ben is behind the people trying to sedate Sayid…

  39. pete says:

    is it me or does locke have to die to replace christian as jacob, and does jack have to be the one to bring him back in a coffin like he did his dad originaly. was there a mix up with locke and christian?

  40. duke says:

    [quote comment="315025"][quote comment="315024"][quote comment="314988"][quote comment="314979"]I wonder if Airja Airways has a flight 316?[/quote]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:

    “The Devil’s Sea (魔の海, Ma no Umi?) or Dragon’s Triangle or The Pacific Bermuda Triangle is a region of the Pacific around Miyake Island, about 100 km south of Tokyo. One of the triangle’s corners is said to be on the island of Guam.” – from wikipedia

    Then they land on the small island runway that they Others where building (Kate and Sawyer doing the rock busting when they were kept in the bear cages).[/quote]
    I do not think that the runway was finished given all the drama that occurred while Kate and Sawyer were working. Also Hammer, I think that you and I believe that they will go back to the past of the island like the 70′s or 80′s so the runway won’t be there if it was finished in 2004-2005. Unless Dharma had one on the island that we do not know about yet.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    What may have happened is….remember the skip where it seemed they went forward in time? Camp was abandoned and there was an Aljira water bottle. The O6ers may land in their current time and time travel back to the 70′s to catch up with the skippers.[/quote]
    You may be right. Who the hell knows? But who would have finished the runway?

  41. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315029"]is it me or does locke have to die to replace christian as jacob, and does jack have to be the one to bring him back in a coffin like he did his dad originaly. was there a mix up with locke and christian?[/quote]

    I watched White Rabbit the other night and saw the connection. My mind is whirling waiting for this to start! I am ready for some more answers!

  42. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315030"][/quote]
    You may be right. Who the hell knows? But who would have finished the runway?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I don’t know, but I don’t think they told us about it for nothing.

  43. Eric says:

    2)Is Desmond’s ability–and anyone else like him–demonstrating a totally new notion of time travel?

    His essence travels, and he pops into the corporal vessal that we know as “Desmond” at some point past (or in the future) of his own timeline. There is no 2004/1998 physical contact world ends paradox.

  44. Hammer says:

    Desmond can’t go on the plane….but how convenient that he still travels around on a boat….

  45. lost4ever says:

    Looks like all the speculation from last year and the vile vortices are correct.

  46. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="314991"][quote comment="314988"][quote comment="314979"]I wonder if Airja Airways has a flight 316?[/quote]
    Yes, from LA to Guam. I am guessing that the plane goes into this one of the 12 vile vortices:

    “The Devil’s Sea (魔の海, Ma no Umi?) or Dragon’s Triangle or The Pacific Bermuda Triangle is a region of the Pacific around Miyake Island, about 100 km south of Tokyo. One of the triangle’s corners is said to be on the island of Guam.” – from wikipedia

    Then they land on the small island runway that they Others where building (Kate and Sawyer doing the rock busting when they were kept in the bear cages).[/quote]
    *******************************************
    Land or Crash?? hmmm[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Subtract the runway part….and I’m pretty close….no?

  47. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315037"]Looks like all the speculation from last year and the vile vortices are correct.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Yep, whoever came up with that was on it.

  48. Stymie says:

    So Kate is now pregrant to simulate Claire being pregrant?

  49. michael says:

    Sayid did not want to go with ben i bet.

  50. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315041"]So Kate is now pregrant to simulate Claire being pregrant?[/quote]
    Maybe, but I think that if Claire were going back, she would need to be preg. Jack was taking his dad, so John is the proxy wearing Christian’s stuff.

    Kate just needs handcuffs. :)

  51. Tasha says:

    I KNEW it had something to do with Vile Vortices!!!!!

  52. Tasha says:

    Where the heck is Aaron???

  53. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315042"]Sayid did not want to go with ben i bet.[/quote]
    That maybe OR Des beat his butt because he was trying to kill Penny…..loose ends with an ‘old friend’.

  54. Hammer says:

    No need for Ji Yeon because she was conceived on the island.

    Aaron can’t go back in utero?

  55. michael says:

    [quote comment="315046"][quote comment="315042"]Sayid did not want to go with ben i bet.[/quote]
    That maybe OR Des beat his butt because he was trying to kill Penny…..loose ends with an ‘old friend’.[/quote]
    ====

    Not bad.

  56. Hammer says:

    Sayid has the handcuffs….Hurley has the guitar…..

  57. michael says:

    [quote comment="315049"]Sayid has the handcuffs….Hurley has the guitar…..[/quote]

    Sun has Jin ring if its needed.

  58. Hammer says:

    Course correction with the suicide note?

  59. Eric says:

    Don’t know if I was first on posts about vile vortices but I know they were original thoughts. I’m really interested to see where this goes…

  60. michael says:

    [quote comment="315051"]Course correction with the suicide note?[/quote]
    How so?

  61. Hammer says:

    Frank Lapidus course correction? He was supposed to pilot the first plane. Now we know why Smokey killed the first pilot…he wasn’t supposed to be there.

  62. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315053"][quote comment="315051"]Course correction with the suicide note?[/quote]
    How so?[/quote]
    +++++++++
    He tried to give it back to Locke, but Jack NEEDS to read it…it is supposed to happen…he had it in his hand in the opening scene after the wakes up on the island.

  63. michael says:

    Ben didn’t get hurly on the plane. Don’ think he got sayid on the plane. Katie looks like she hates jack..”Just because we’re on the same plane doesnt make us together, Jack.”

  64. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315052"]Don’t know if I was first on posts about vile vortices but I know they were original thoughts. I’m really interested to see where this goes…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++==
    Are those you theories about them on lostpedia?

  65. Krista says:

    So he found Hurley and Kate… where are the others… and what did Kate do with Aaron??

  66. Hammer says:

    Well I was wrong, they went straight to the 70′s.

  67. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315059"]Well I was wrong, they went straight to the 70′s.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    But I still feel that the skipping is done for awhile…and the last turn Locke gave the wheel put the skippers in the 70′s…I wonder how long they lived in the 70′s before the O6ers got there.

  68. PJSander says:

    So anyone wanna take bets on which dead islander talked Hurley into going back? Libby? Charlie? Ana-Lucia?

    Lots of answers. Lots of predictions shown to be correct. Big NEW questions: Where is Aaron? Where is Desmond?

    : ) P

  69. michael says:

    [quote comment="315060"][quote comment="315059"]Well I was wrong, they went straight to the 70′s.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    But I still feel that the skipping is done for awhile…and the last turn Locke gave the wheel put the skippers in the 70′s…I wonder how long they lived in the 70′s before the O6ers got there.[/quote]

    It appears a good amount of time if Jin got a scouting job.

  70. Ben says:

    Frank Lepidus = Jacob

  71. michael says:

    [quote comment="315061"]So anyone wanna take bets on which dead islander talked Hurley into going back? Libby? Charlie? Ana-Lucia?

    Lots of answers. Lots of predictions shown to be correct. Big NEW questions: Where is Aaron? Where is Desmond?

    : ) P[/quote]

    Would have to go with Charlie.

  72. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315060"]But I still feel that the skipping is done for awhile…and the last turn Locke gave the wheel put the skippers in the 70′s…I wonder how long they lived in the 70′s before the O6ers got there.[/quote]

    It looks like long enough for the remaining LOSTies to infiltrate the DI.

    Charlotte had to die in the last episode because they are returning to the time when she was already on the island. In my mind, that means that they are also arriving there BEFORE Ben and his father arrive.

    : ) P

  73. michael says:

    [quote comment="315065"][quote comment="315060"]But I still feel that the skipping is done for awhile…and the last turn Locke gave the wheel put the skippers in the 70′s…I wonder how long they lived in the 70′s before the O6ers got there.[/quote]

    It looks like long enough for the remaining LOSTies to infiltrate the DI.

    Charlotte had to die in the last episode because they are returning to the time when she was already on the island. In my mind, that means that they are also arriving there BEFORE Ben and his father arrive.

    : ) P[/quote]

    +++++

    Nice

  74. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315061"]So anyone wanna take bets on which dead islander talked Hurley into going back? Libby? Charlie? Ana-Lucia?

    Lots of answers. Lots of predictions shown to be correct. Big NEW questions: Where is Aaron? Where is Desmond?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    Desmond is on his way back to island…he has to arrive by boat…..he may not know it yet….”the island isn’t done with you”.

  75. Krista says:

    [quote comment="315065"][quote comment="315060"]But I still feel that the skipping is done for awhile…and the last turn Locke gave the wheel put the skippers in the 70′s…I wonder how long they lived in the 70′s before the O6ers got there.[/quote]

    It looks like long enough for the remaining LOSTies to infiltrate the DI.

    Charlotte had to die in the last episode because they are returning to the time when she was already on the island. In my mind, that means that they are also arriving there BEFORE Ben and his father arrive.

    : ) P[/quote]

    But Ben was born on the island… and Charlotte isn’t older than Ben…

  76. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315066"][quote comment="315065"][quote comment="315060"]But I still feel that the skipping is done for awhile…and the last turn Locke gave the wheel put the skippers in the 70′s…I wonder how long they lived in the 70′s before the O6ers got there.[/quote]

    It looks like long enough for the remaining LOSTies to infiltrate the DI.

    Charlotte had to die in the last episode because they are returning to the time when she was already on the island. In my mind, that means that they are also arriving there BEFORE Ben and his father arrive.

    : ) P[/quote]

    +++++

    Nice[/quote]
    ++++++++++++=
    Yeah, may explain why they don’t see Ben. He may be in ‘current’ time.

    Sun is missing because we need a BIG REUNION scene.

  77. TheWhiteHorse says:

    So does anyone know why on earth Sun would go w/o her daughter? And who was the Arab man in first class? Did he look really familiar to anyone else?

  78. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315045"]Where the heck is Aaron???[/quote]
    Promise me you’ll never ask that question again!

  79. lost4ever says:

    I think there may have been another Widmore plant on Ajira airways. The Middle-Earstern guy sitting next to Hurley.

  80. John says:

    This is a stretch, I know, but just thought I’d throw the idea out. Seeing as how the show seems to have a lot of religious references (i.e. 316, theory that the island is the garden of eden) and considering how distraught Kate was about Aaron and making sure Jack never mentions him again, is it possible she saw a mark on him (e.g. 666), and changed her mind about the island?

  81. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315068"]

    But Ben was born on the island… and Charlotte isn’t older than Ben…[/quote]
    Ben was not born on the island.

  82. 6th here we come says:

    There was a theme from season one where major characters would see pivotol people from their past in the jungle and episode flashbacks would describe loose ends, mistakes, and bad life decisions and there was this urgency to make things right. This dynamic parallels the idea in Christianity that salvation/redemption/eternal life is possible even after major errors in one’s life. It’s an idea of being LOST and then found;finding eternal life/true life. Could a major theme that will be tied up have to do with the idea that before coming to the Island all the characters are LOST in someway and that after their experience with the island they will find salvation/redemption/eternal life by tying up loose ends, making amends and peace with issues from their past? And I keep thinking about the storyline of the Others taking “good” plane passengers versus not taking “bad” ones. Anybody have similar thoughts?

  83. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315070"]So does anyone know why on earth Sun would go w/o her daughter? And who was the Arab man in first class? Did he look really familiar to anyone else?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    Don’t know about the guy, but Sun HAD to go without Ji because she didn’t get preg. until she arrived on the island and they had to back under similar circumstances.

  84. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315049"]Sayid has the handcuffs….Hurley has the guitar…..[/quote]
    Also a comic book – didn’t catch the name of it though.

    [quote comment="315051"]Course correction with the suicide note?[/quote]
    That was my take. Although I thought Jack’s line to Ben on the plane (something like, “I can’t get away from this thing”) was overkill by the writers.

    [quote comment="315054"]Frank Lapidus course correction? He was supposed to pilot the first plane. Now we know why Smokey killed the first pilot…he wasn’t supposed to be there.[/quote]
    Good call with Smokey – I like that idea.

  85. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315068"]But Ben was born on the island… and Charlotte isn’t older than Ben…[/quote]

    No, Ben was born in outside of Portland, Oregon. He only TOLD people he was born on the island.

    : ) P

  86. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315070"] And who was the Arab man in first class? Did he look really familiar to anyone else?[/quote]
    He was in the movie “Three Kings”.

  87. Krista says:

    [quote comment="315074"][quote comment="315068"]

    But Ben was born on the island… and Charlotte isn’t older than Ben…[/quote]
    Ben was not born on the island.[/quote]

    ===========
    Yes, he was…I remember in an episode… his father was drinking on his birthday and said basically oh yeah, happy birthday, hard to celebrate on the day you killed your mother…. ben’s dad worked for Dharma and bens mom got pregnant there, in childbirth she died, and Ben grew up with the father who reminded him constantly that he was the one who killed his mother… gee.. wonder why he’s so messed up and eventually killed almost everyone at Dharma, including his father…

  88. Toeknee says:

    Ben gets up to give Jack privacy, Jack reads the note, then the plane “crashes” or whatever.

    Was the island waiting for Jack to read the letter before the crash could occur?

    Or did Ben do something when he got up to cause the crash?

    Or, by getting up and walking to the front of the plane, did Ben create a condition similar to Charlie getting up on OA815 just before that crash, and that allowed the crash to occur at that moment?

  89. Skweez says:

    Can someone please explain to me why no one, especially Jack, asked Ben what happenned to him?

  90. lost4ever says:

    Here’s a link for you Krista.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ben

  91. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315070"]So does anyone know why on earth Sun would go w/o her daughter? And who was the Arab man in first class? Did he look really familiar to anyone else?[/quote]

    +++++++
    He kind of looked like that guy that was singing on AI last night. LOL

    So….Kate looked DEAD when she was in Jack’s room. DEAD.

    All that anticipation with the letter from Locke, for one little sentence. I KNEW that plane was gonna do that when he read it. I want to see next week’s episode!

    I was thinking whenever the O6 goes back to the island it’s for GOOD but without the kids, that can’t be possible!

  92. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315071"][quote comment="315045"]Where the heck is Aaron???[/quote]
    Promise me you’ll never ask that question again![/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I think Kate gave Aaron to the couple in LA that the psychic said is supposed to raise him.

  93. Jewelbeth says:

    What happend to Aaron? When Kate told Jack not to ever ask her about Aaron again? If all 6 had to go to the island…didn’t this mean Aaron also? Also…who beat up Ben?

  94. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315079"][quote comment="315070"] And who was the Arab man in first class? Did he look really familiar to anyone else?[/quote]
    He was in the movie “Three Kings”.[/quote]
    His name is ironically Said. He played a captain in the Iraqi army in the movie and was in also in “Vantage Point” opposite Matthew Fox.

  95. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315082"]Ben gets up to give Jack privacy, Jack reads the note, then the plane “crashes” or whatever.

    Was the island waiting for Jack to read the letter before the crash could occur?

    Or did Ben do something when he got up to cause the crash?

    Or, by getting up and walking to the front of the plane, did Ben create a condition similar to Charlie getting up on OA815 just before that crash, and that allowed the crash to occur at that moment?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++

    Maybe he was right and he CAN’T go back, maybe he died or better still, he’s still on the plane. There wasn’t a crash, maybe they just transfered to the island by going thru the window. There was a flash like time skipping as opposed to a crash, they transfer by going thru the window, there is not crash scene on the island this time.

  96. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment="315079"][quote comment="315070"] And who was the Arab man in first class? Did he look really familiar to anyone else?[/quote]
    He was in the movie “Three Kings”.[/quote]

    Thanks! He is new to the show…I looked it up. He just looked so familiar to me I was sure I must have seen him on LOST before.

  97. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315086"][quote comment="315071"][quote comment="315045"]Where the heck is Aaron???[/quote]
    Promise me you’ll never ask that question again![/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I think Kate gave Aaron to the couple in LA that the psychic said is supposed to raise him.[/quote]

    I would think she would return him to Claire’s mom before doing that…..

  98. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315080"]Yes, he was…I remember in an episode… his father was drinking on his birthday and said basically oh yeah, happy birthday, hard to celebrate on the day you killed your mother…. ben’s dad worked for Dharma and bens mom got pregnant there, in childbirth she died, and Ben grew up with the father who reminded him constantly that he was the one who killed his mother… gee.. wonder why he’s so messed up and eventually killed almost everyone at Dharma, including his father…[/quote]

    You are remembering incorrectly.

    Ben was born off the side of a road outside of Portland. His mother and father had been walking in the woods when she had a contraction. Horace and Olivia Goodspeed were there but they were NOT on the island.

    Horace got Roger (Ben’s father) the job on the island when Ben was around ten. Check out S3E20 (The Man Behind the Curtain) to refresh your memory.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  99. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315086"][quote comment="315071"][quote comment="315045"]Where the heck is Aaron???[/quote]
    Promise me you’ll never ask that question again![/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I think Kate gave Aaron to the couple in LA that the psychic said is supposed to raise him.[/quote]
    ************
    Good call. That was my thought. I understand that if that’s the case, Kate doesn’t plan to go back home. But what about Sun, does she plan to get with Jin and go home?

  100. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315087"]What happend to Aaron? When Kate told Jack not to ever ask her about Aaron again? If all 6 had to go to the island…didn’t this mean Aaron also? Also…who beat up Ben?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    See post 53 about who beat up Ben….JMO.

  101. Alex says:

    This episode really just didn’t click for me. I’m hoping that “The Life and Death of Jeremy Benthem” will fill in many of the plot holes in this episode because the LOST podcast said they were written to compliment each other. I am, however, a little shaken after watching this episode. After five incredible episodes it just felt a little rushed.

  102. Tasha says:

    Did anyone notice the CREEPY picture at Jack’s place? The one that Kate was sitting in front of?? What is up with him and Kate and creepy pics in their homes?!?!

  103. Laura says:

    Anyone catch what book Ben was reading on the plane?

    And what about Walt?? Am I forgetting something, or did no one even try to get Walt on the plane?

  104. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315095"]This episode really just didn’t click for me. I’m hoping that “The Life and Death of Jeremy Benthem” will fill in many of the plot holes in this episode because the LOST podcast said they were written to compliment each other. I am, however, a little shaken after watching this episode. After five incredible episodes it just felt a little rushed.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Well, they started a bunch of extra story lines when they didn’t have an end date…now that they do, they have to cram to answer as much as possible.

  105. duke says:

    I think it is very obvious that Ben went to kill Penny and Desmond beat the snot outta him. Also, I will pat myself on the back for predicting that they return in the past and that not ALL of them have to go back. I know that that isn’t the right thing to do but I have been wrong numerous times and am just glad that I got something right.

  106. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315095"]This episode really just didn’t click for me. I’m hoping that “The Life and Death of Jeremy Benthem” will fill in many of the plot holes in this episode because the LOST podcast said they were written to compliment each other. I am, however, a little shaken after watching this episode. After five incredible episodes it just felt a little rushed.[/quote]
    Spoiled again. Where’s the Hall Monitor when you need him.:)

  107. michael says:

    [quote comment="315089"][quote comment="315082"]Ben gets up to give Jack privacy, Jack reads the note, then the plane “crashes” or whatever.

    Was the island waiting for Jack to read the letter before the crash could occur?

    Or did Ben do something when he got up to cause the crash?

    Or, by getting up and walking to the front of the plane, did Ben create a condition similar to Charlie getting up on OA815 just before that crash, and that allowed the crash to occur at that moment?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++

    Maybe he was right and he CAN’T go back, maybe he died or better still, he’s still on the plane. There wasn’t a crash, maybe they just transfered to the island by going thru the window. There was a flash like time skipping as opposed to a crash, they transfer by going thru the window, there is not crash scene on the island this time.[/quote]
    ++++

    Was thinking that as well

  108. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315097"]Anyone catch what book Ben was reading on the plane?

    And what about Walt?? Am I forgetting something, or did no one even try to get Walt on the plane?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    My guess is the O6ers left incorrectly, had to come back. Maybe Walt left ‘properly’ (no island movement involved).

  109. Tim says:

    Does anyone think that the picture of the angels in the church looked an awful lot like Charles Widmore?

  110. Alex says:

    [quote comment="315100"][quote comment="315095"]This episode really just didn’t click for me. I’m hoping that “The Life and Death of Jeremy Benthem” will fill in many of the plot holes in this episode because the LOST podcast said they were written to compliment each other. I am, however, a little shaken after watching this episode. After five incredible episodes it just felt a little rushed.[/quote]
    Spoiled again. Where’s the Hall Monitor when you need him.:)[/quote]
    I didn’t spoil anything I apologize if anything spoiled anyone because that is the last thing I meant to do.

  111. lost123987 says:

    All I know is that you don’t F*** with Said.

  112. duke says:

    [quote comment="315059"]Well I was wrong, they went straight to the 70′s.[/quote]
    Big enough to admit when you are wrong. That is rare.

  113. Laura says:

    For some reason I just loved seeing Jin roll up in the infamous van with the 70′s tunes blasting…in a nice, fresh Dharma-issued jumpsuit.

    I think Sayid *must* have followed Ben et al to the church & followed Des/Ben afterward (my guess is Ben followed Des, Sayid followed Ben). It would be very un-Sayid not to have kept an eye on them. I’m still concerned about Penny & Aaron, though

  114. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="315097"]Anyone catch what book Ben was reading on the plane?
    [/quote]

    I believe it was Ulysses. (Could have been Odyssey)

  115. lost4ever says:

    I thought it funny how in one scene Ben was on his knees praying, then another scene when Jack asked what was gonna happen to the other passengers, Ben replied “who cares”.

  116. PJSander says:

    Okay, so which characters are alive “off” the island, but whom we did NOT see on that plane: Desmond, Aaron, Ji Yeon, Walt, Penny, baby Charlie.

    I think every one of those characters is going to play a role at some point. The Penny/Desmond story is not over. If Walt weren’t coming back, I think we would not have seen him visit Hurley at Santa Rosa.

    Other characters include Abaddon, Widmore, Mrs. Hawking, Jill, Theresa, Norton. (I wonder if the Arab man that gave his condolences to Jack – called Caesar on IMDB – is Gabriel or Jeffrey?)

    : ) P

  117. Tim says:

    To Laura: Ben was reading “Ulysses”.

  118. duke says:

    [quote comment="315072"]I think there may have been another Widmore plant on Ajira airways. The Middle-Earstern guy sitting next to Hurley.[/quote]
    I would agree and also add that the “agent” escorting Said could also be a plant.

  119. Skweez says:

    Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie!

  120. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315107"]

    I think Sayid *must* have followed Ben et al to the church & followed Des/Ben afterward (my guess is Ben followed Des, Sayid followed Ben). It would be very un-Sayid not to have kept an eye on them. [/quote]

    Why would Sayid be in handcuffs on a plane bound for Guam, escorted by what appeared to me a federal marshall?

  121. LostGrrl says:

    Why did Eloise seem so displeased when Daniel’s name came up? I was excited when Desmond finally said it out loud after all of the musings on this blog — that Eloise is Daniel’s mother. But she didn’t confirm it and in fact seemed a bit pissed at the mention of his name.

    I assumed that Daniel was the “he” she was referring to when she said that HE was responsible for all of the equations in the pendulum room.

  122. duke says:

    Who else thought that Hawking, when talking about this man who invented stuff at the church, could have been referring to Daniel? There has been speculation that Charlie programmed the signal blocker from “through the looking glass” as to why he knew it so easily. Just a thought.

  123. DocH says:

    Hugo future quote: “What guitar? This thing is packed with food!”

    So Kate, Jack & Hugo are with Jin. Are Sayid, Ben & Sun in a different “TIME”?… did they align with Sawyer, Jules, Miles and Dan? Is Frank hanging in wreckage in the treetops waiting for Smokey to come for a meal? Is there heroin hidden in the first class lav?

    When Kate split after the romantic interlude with Jack – Did she go recruit Hurley? Did she get Sayid busted and deported to Guam? Did she kick Ben’s butt down at the Harbor?

    How did Hurley get the cash to buy 78 tickets? I thought he renounced his wealth. He must have bought them MUCH earlier than last minute – or the stand-bys would have bought them. Was 78 the most he could get? or the number that put the exact same number of pax on the flight as 815?

  124. michael says:

    [quote comment="315112"][quote comment="315072"]I think there may have been another Widmore plant on Ajira airways. The Middle-Earstern guy sitting next to Hurley.[/quote]
    I would agree and also add that the “agent” escorting Said could also be a plant.[/quote]

    Anyone that Sun could have talked the other into getting on the plane. We asume that shes going because ben. But she talked to widmore first. The night before they leave she could have contacted widmore. Widmore tells her to get the others to go. She also takes aaron. Any thoughts.

  125. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I took it as she knew he was asking for help to save Char….and Hawking is queen of course correction. (Which supports my theory that Dan has ALREADY tried to save Char and was unsuccessful. :))

  126. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315110"] called Caesar on IMDB – is Gabriel or Jeffrey?)

    : ) P[/quote]
    Caesar…I like that. Et tu, Brute? now who is his Brutus.

  127. duke says:

    Also something seemed fishy about Jack’s grandpa. Like he knew what was going on. Could he have a past connection to the island? This could help to explain Christian’s role in the overall story.

  128. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315108"][quote comment="315097"]Anyone catch what book Ben was reading on the plane?
    [/quote]

    I believe it was Ulysses. (Could have been Odyssey)[/quote]
    Thanks!

  129. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315111"]To Laura: Ben was reading “Ulysses”.[/quote]
    Double thanks, guys!

  130. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="315117"]Hugo future quote: “What guitar? This thing is packed with food!”

    So Kate, Jack & Hugo are with Jin. Are Sayid, Ben & Sun in a different “TIME”?… did they align with Sawyer, Jules, Miles and Dan? Is Frank hanging in wreckage in the treetops waiting for Smokey to come for a meal? Is there heroin hidden in the first class lav?

    When Kate split after the romantic interlude with Jack – Did she go recruit Hurley? Did she get Sayid busted and deported to Guam? Did she kick Ben’s butt down at the Harbor?

    How did Hurley get the cash to buy 78 tickets? I thought he renounced his wealth. He must have bought them MUCH earlier than last minute – or the stand-bys would have bought them. Was 78 the most he could get? or the number that put the exact same number of pax on the flight as 815?[/quote]

    Yes — so much for ANSWERING more questions than ASKING. Damn show!!

  131. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="315029"]is it me or does locke have to die to replace christian as jacob, and does jack have to be the one to bring him back in a coffin like he did his dad originaly. was there a mix up with locke and christian?[/quote]

    Kudos on the catch!

  132. DocH says:

    [quote comment="315086"]I think Kate gave Aaron to the couple in LA that the psychic said is supposed to raise him.[/quote]
    - – - -
    How about. Kate dropped Aaron with Claire’s mom and she gave her the COMPLETE details about what happened. That was her self-imposed penance, her leap-of-faith, to put her life of lies behind her.
    (or the boy is with voodoo Math priestess Hawking… grannies got cash & and she needs to replace her boy Daniel)

  133. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315115"]Why did Eloise seem so displeased when Daniel’s name came up? I was excited when Desmond finally said it out loud after all of the musings on this blog — that Eloise is Daniel’s mother. But she didn’t confirm it and in fact seemed a bit pissed at the mention of his name.

    I assumed that Daniel was the “he” she was referring to when she said that HE was responsible for all of the equations in the pendulum room.[/quote]

    Yeah IMO she was talking about Dan.

    Did anyone expect to find something HUGE out when Jack met his grandfather? First time we ever see him for such a pointless scene! Anyhow, I just KNEW he was going to say that he was in Dharma at one time and jack was going to find something out about his father that would answer the questions on what Christian’s association with the island is. No such luck though.

  134. chemicalbuddha says:

    [quote comment="315073"]This is a stretch, I know, but just thought I’d throw the idea out. Seeing as how the show seems to have a lot of religious references (i.e. 316, theory that the island is the garden of eden) and considering how distraught Kate was about Aaron and making sure Jack never mentions him again, is it possible she saw a mark on him (e.g. 666), and changed her mind about the island?[/quote]

    umm…. i don’t think so

  135. duke says:

    [quote comment="315097"]Anyone catch what book Ben was reading on the plane?

    And what about Walt?? Am I forgetting something, or did no one even try to get Walt on the plane?[/quote]
    Ulysses. Not sure of the spelling but I imagine it was a book about Ulysses S Grant.

  136. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315121"]Also something seemed fishy about Jack’s grandpa. Like he knew what was going on. Could he have a past connection to the island? This could help to explain Christian’s role in the overall story.[/quote]
    Totally agree. I almost felt like we’ve seen him before, but probably not. As someone (sorry, forgot who) mentioned last week, there will probably be many more island-family-connections to come.

  137. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment="315120"][quote comment="315110"] called Caesar on IMDB – is Gabriel or Jeffrey?)

    : ) P[/quote]
    Caesar…I like that. Et tu, Brute? now who is his Brutus.[/quote]

    ———————————–

    Who are Gabriel & Jeffrey?

  138. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315114"]Why would Sayid be in handcuffs on a plane bound for Guam, escorted by what appeared to me a federal marshall?[/quote]

    The Federal Marshal thing is probably not really true. My guess is that Ben created some kind of fake documents and had him arrested because he knew it was the ONLY way to get him on the plane.

    [quote comment="315117"]Did [Kate] get Sayid busted and deported to Guam? [/quote]

    Last I heard, Guam was a US Territory. If Sayid were to be deported, it wouldn’t be to Guam! Not sure about extradition laws, but Guam isn’t a natural stopover for a trip from LA to Iraq.

    : ) P

  139. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315130"][quote comment="315121"]Also something seemed fishy about Jack’s grandpa. Like he knew what was going on. Could he have a past connection to the island? This could help to explain Christian’s role in the overall story.[/quote]
    Totally agree. I almost felt like we’ve seen him before, but probably not. As someone (sorry, forgot who) mentioned last week, there will probably be many more island-family-connections to come.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Here a wild one, that likely isn’t true.

    What if Jack’s gpa is Jacob? He was looking to go ‘somewhere better than here’. Maybe he needs ‘help’ and is confused by time travel?

  140. Hammer says:

    Here’s another silly one. The ‘cop’ that had Sayid reminded my of Ana Lucia, who was also a cop. Just saying.

  141. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315131"]Who are Gabriel & Jeffrey?[/quote]

    When Ben first visited the Butcher Shop in S5E2, he asked Jill if Gabriel and Jeffrey were there yet.

    : ) P

  142. duke says:

    [quote comment="315110"]Okay, so which characters are alive “off” the island, but whom we did NOT see on that plane: Desmond, Aaron, Ji Yeon, Walt, Penny, baby Charlie.

    I think every one of those characters is going to play a role at some point. The Penny/Desmond story is not over. If Walt weren’t coming back, I think we would not have seen him visit Hurley at Santa Rosa.

    Other characters include Abaddon, Widmore, Mrs. Hawking, Jill, Theresa, Norton. (I wonder if the Arab man that gave his condolences to Jack – called Caesar on IMDB – is Gabriel or Jeffrey?)

    : ) P[/q[quote comment="315117"]Hugo future quote: “What guitar? This thing is packed with food!”

    So Kate, Jack & Hugo are with Jin. Are Sayid, Ben & Sun in a different “TIME”?… did they align with Sawyer, Jules, Miles and Dan? Is Frank hanging in wreckage in the treetops waiting for Smokey to come for a meal? Is there heroin hidden in the first class lav?

    When Kate split after the romantic interlude with Jack – Did she go recruit Hurley? Did she get Sayid busted and deported to Guam? Did she kick Ben’s butt down at the Harbor?

    How did Hurley get the cash to buy 78 tickets? I thought he renounced his wealth. He must have bought them MUCH earlier than last minute – or the stand-bys would have bought them. Was 78 the most he could get? or the number that put the exact same number of pax on the flight as 815?[/quote]
    Now why in the world would Sayid be deported to Guam? The “marshall” had to be someone planted by Ben or maybe even Widmore.

  143. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315121"]
    ++++++++++++++
    Here a wild one, that likely isn’t true.

    What if Jack’s gpa is Jacob? He was looking to go ‘somewhere better than here’. Maybe he needs ‘help’ and is confused by time travel?[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++
    That would be totally awesome :)

  144. DharmaGreg says:

    Why would Jack’s grandpa have Christian’s shoes in a suitcase if he wasn’t trying to get back to the island too?

  145. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315134"]Here’s another silly one. The ‘cop’ that had Sayid reminded my of Ana Lucia, who was also a cop. Just saying.[/quote]

    My husband said that too!!

  146. Laura says:

    Sorry, totally messed up the quote thing, that was Hammer’s

  147. Tasha says:

    His grandpa seemed kinda young looking to be Christian’s dad. Maybe he doesn’t age no more either!

  148. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315138"]Why would Jack’s grandpa have Christian’s shoes in a suitcase if he wasn’t trying to get back to the island too?[/quote]
    I also thought that was a tad too convenient :) But perhaps the shoes were there for Jack? There’s more to Gramps than meets the eye

  149. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315135"][quote comment="315131"]Who are Gabriel & Jeffrey?[/quote]

    When Ben first visited the Butcher Shop in S5E2, he asked Jill if Gabriel and Jeffrey were there yet.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    We still need folks with an Aljira bottle shooting from a dugout boat at our skippers in a dugout boat.

  150. TheWhiteHorse says:

    [quote comment="315141"]His grandpa seemed kinda young looking to be Christian’s dad. Maybe he doesn’t age no more either![/quote]

    I thought that also. He seemed to be only a few years older than Christian.

  151. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315129"]Ulysses. Not sure of the spelling but I imagine it was a book about Ulysses S Grant.[/quote]

    Doubtful.

    Ulysses was a novel written in the 1920′s by James Joyce.

    Here is the cover from Amazon:

    http://tinyurl.com/BENSulysses

    HTH,
    : ) P

  152. duke says:

    We also got the BIG reveal as to why Jack’s dad was wearing white shoes. There were numerous questions about this over the past years. At least Darlton is trying to satisfy us Lost addicts.

  153. Tim says:

    Sorry for the long post, but here is a list of characters from the book Ulysses…seems like some of them sound similar to our Losties: List of characters
    Leopold Bloom – A 38 year old advertising canvasser in Dublin. Loves music and reading as well as thinking about science and explaining things to others. He is preoccupied with his estranged wife, Molly. Leopold Bloom identifies himself as a Jew in the Cyclops episode, although his mother, Ellen Higgins, was Roman Catholic, and his father, Rudolph Virag, was born Jewish but converted to Protestantism. Leopold himself converted to Catholicism in order to marry Molly Bloom. He does not observe Jewish customs, but nevertheless displays his sometimes flawed awareness of them throughout the novel.
    Marion (Molly) Bloom – Leopold Bloom’s wife. Molly Bloom is 33 years old, chubby, good-looking, and flirtatious. She is a professional singer, managed by Blazes Boylan, with whom she begins having an affair. Although not well-educated, she is clever and opinionated. Molly is impatient with Bloom, especially about his refusal to be intimate with her since the death of their son, Rudy, eleven years ago.
    Stephen Dedalus – The first protagonist introduced in Ulysses, Stephen’s development from a zealously religious youth to a rebellious aspiring writer is traced in Joyce’s earlier novel, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man (in which Stephen was the protagonist). The Stephen of Ulysses is a brilliant, if often abstruse, failed exile – having returned to Dublin from Paris for his mother’s death. His complex relationship with his mother (and with Ireland in general) forms the main internal conflict that Stephen deals with on June 16. As in the earlier work he appeared, Stephen is a semi-autobiographical character, largely based on Joyce himself.
    Malachi (Buck) Mulligan – A bawdy medical student and a friend of Stephen Dedalus. Mulligan is well-read and ridicules everything and everyone around him. He is well-liked by nearly everyone except for Stephen & Simon Dedalus and Leopold Bloom. Mulligan was based on Joyce’s acquaintance and one-time roommate, Oliver St. John Gogarty.
    Haines – A student at Oxford who studies Irish people and culture. He has been staying at the Martello tower where Stephen and Buck live.
    Hugh (“Blazes”) Boylan – Molly Bloom’s manager. Boylan is well-known and well-liked around town. Boylan and Molly begin an affair during the novel.
    Millicent (Milly) Bloom – Molly and Leopold Bloom’s fifteen-year-old daughter, who does not actually appear in the novel but is only referred to. The Blooms recently sent Milly to live in Mullingar to learn photography.
    Simon Dedalus – Stephen Dedalus’s father. Until his wife died, Simon Dedalus was a fairly successful man but since then his home life has been in disarray. However, he is still admired by others. Simon is a good singer and story and joke teller. He is a heavy drinker. Simon is extremely critical of Stephen. The character of Simon Dedalus was based on Joyce’s father, John Joyce.
    A.E. – the pseudonym of George Russell, a famous poet of the Irish Literary Revival. People admire his wisdom and consult him for advice.
    Richard Best – A librarian at the National Library.
    Edy Boardman – One of Gerty MacDowell’s friends.
    Josie (née Powell) and Denis Breen – Josie and Leopold Bloom were interested in each other when they were younger. At that time, Josie was good-looking but her marriage has taken its toll on her and she is now haggard and worn out. After Bloom married Molly, Josie married Denis, who is mentally unbalanced and paranoid.
    Cissy, Jacky, and Tommy Caffrey – Cissy Caffrey is one of Gerty MacDowell’s best friends. She looks after her younger toddler brothers, Jacky and Tommy.
    The citizen – An older Irish patriot, a champion of Irish nationalism. Though he has no official capacity, others look to him for news and opinions. He was formerly an athlete in Irish sports. He is belligerent, xenophobic and anti-semitic.
    Martha Clifford – A woman with whom Bloom corresponds using the pseudonym Henry Flower.
    Bella Cohen – A conniving brothel-mistress. She has a son studying at Oxford, whose tuition is paid by one of her customers.
    Martin Cunningham – The leader of Bloom’s circle of friends.
    Garrett Deasy – Headmaster of the boys’ school where Stephen teaches. Deasy is a Protestant and a rabid anti-Semite. His letter to the newspaper about foot-and-mouth disease is the object of mockery among Dublin men for the rest of the day.
    Dilly, Katey, Boody, and Maggy Dedalus – Stephen’s younger sisters. They try to keep the Dedalus household running after their mother’s death.
    Patrick Dignam, Mrs. Dignam, and Patrick Dignam, Jr. – Patrick Dignam is a friend of Bloom’s who died very recently, apparently from drinking. His funeral takes place on the day of the novel and Bloom and others raise money for the widow Dignam and her children, who were left with almost nothing.
    Ben Dollard – A man known around Dublin for his superior bass voice. Ben Dollard’s business and career collapsed a while ago.
    John Eglinton – An essayist who spends time at the National Library. He attacks Stephen’s theories about Shakespeare.
    Richie, Sara (Sally), and Walter Goulding – Richie Goulding is Stephen Dedalus’s uncle. Richie is a law clerk, who has been less able to work recently because of a bad back — a fact that makes him an object of ridicule for Simon Dedalus. Richie and Sara’s son, Walter, is “skeweyed” and has a stutter.
    Zoe Higgins – A prostitute in Bella Cohen’s brothel.
    Joe Hynes – A reporter for the Dublin newspaper who seems to be broke — he borrowed three pounds from Bloom and has not paid him back. He does not know Bloom well, but he appears to be good friends with the citizen in Episode Twelve.
    Corny Kelleher – An undertaker’s assistant.
    Mina Kennedy and Lydia Douce – The barmaids at the Ormond hotel. Mina and Lydia are flirtatious and friendly to the men who come into the bar, though they tend to be scornful of the opposite sex when they talk among themselves. Miss Douce is bronze-haired and has a crush on Blazes Boylan. Miss Kennedy, who is golden-haired, is more reserved than the more outgoing Miss Douce.
    Ned Lambert – A friend of Simon Dedalus, often found joking and laughing. He works in a seed and grain warehouse downtown.
    Lenehan – A racing editor at a Dublin newspaper. Lenehan is a jokester and flirtatious with women. He is mocking of Bloom but respectful towards Simon and Stephen Dedalus.
    Lynch – A medical student and old friend of Stephen. He is seeing Kitty Ricketts. Based on Joyce’s one-time friend Vincent Cosgrave.
    Thomas W. Lyster – A librarian at the National Library in Dublin and a Quaker.
    Gerty MacDowell – A woman in her early twenties from a lower-middle-class family who suffers from a permanent limp. She is fastidious about her clothing and beauty regimen and she hopes to fall in love and marry.
    John Henry Menton – A solicitor in Dublin who employed Paddy Dignam before he died. When Bloom and Molly were first courting, Menton was a rival for Molly’s affections.
    The narrator of episode twelve – The unnamed narrator of Episode Twelve is currently a debt collector, the most recent of many different jobs.
    City Councillor Nannetti – A head printer for a Dublin newspaper and a member of Parliament.
    J. J. O’Molloy – A lawyer who is now out of work and money. O’Molloy is thwarted in his attempts to borrow money from friends. He sticks up for Bloom in Barney Kiernan’s pub in Episode Twelve.
    Jack Power – A friend of Simon Dedalus and Martin Cunningham.
    Kitty Ricketts – One of the prostitutes working in Bella Cohen’s brothel. She is thin and her clothing reflects her upper-class aspirations.
    Florry Talbot – One of the prostitutes in Bella Cohen’s brothel. Florry is plump and seems slow but eager to please.

  154. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315143"][quote comment="315135"][quote comment="315131"]Who are Gabriel & Jeffrey?[/quote]

    When Ben first visited the Butcher Shop in S5E2, he asked Jill if Gabriel and Jeffrey were there yet.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    We still need folks with an Aljira bottle shooting from a dugout boat at our skippers in a dugout boat.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    And that was in the future, after the camp had been established and subsequently ransacked. I am liking the idea that they were not all “transported” to the same time. Although plastic bottles last a long time in landfills.

  155. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315095"]This episode really just didn’t click for me. I’m hoping that “The Life and Death of Jeremy Benthem” will fill in many of the plot holes in this episode because the LOST podcast said they were written to compliment each other. I am, however, a little shaken after watching this episode. After five incredible episodes it just felt a little rushed.[/quote]

    Honestly, that is how I felt LAST week. This Place is Death didn’t THRILL me, but 316 definitely did!

    : ) P

  156. chemicalbuddha says:

    Thought I’d throw this out… see what you all think:

    In Hinduism there’s a concept of “dharma.” This concept suggests that everyone has a one true purpose in life, and that they spend the rest of their life acting on this purpose, or trying to find it.

    In the process of acting on his dharma, a person will commit actions… “karma.” Those who commit good actions (good karma) along their path to complete one true purpose in life… they achieve salvation, or “moksha.”

    Those who commit bad actions along the way (bad karma) are bound to the physical world. They get to repeat their lives (reincarnation) to find their dharma through good actions… they essentially get an infinite number of chances to do so. Hindu’s refer to this endless cycle of life, death, and rebirth as “samsara.” Hindus believe that most people will go through many turns of this wheel of samsara before they actually find their dharma.

    This is my version of a crash course in comparative religion here… John 3:16 is an example of the concept of reincarnation in a Christian context.

    “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again”

    Of course, there have been many different interpretations of this, but all in all the literal message is that of reincarnation.

    In Hinduism, a person cannot achieve salvation unless he is reincarnated… at least a few times. =)

  157. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315152"]Thought I’d throw this out… see what you all think:

    In Hinduism there’s a concept of “dharma.” This concept suggests that everyone has a one true purpose in life, and that they spend the rest of their life acting on this purpose, or trying to find it.

    In the process of acting on his dharma, a person will commit actions… “karma.” Those who commit good actions (good karma) along their path to complete one true purpose in life… they achieve salvation, or “moksha.”

    Those who commit bad actions along the way (bad karma) are bound to the physical world. They get to repeat their lives (reincarnation) to find their dharma through good actions… they essentially get an infinite number of chances to do so. Hindu’s refer to this endless cycle of life, death, and rebirth as “samsara.” Hindus believe that most people will go through many turns of this wheel of samsara before they actually find their dharma.

    This is my version of a crash course in comparative religion here… John 3:16 is an example of the concept of reincarnation in a Christian context.

    “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again”

    Of course, there have been many different interpretations of this, but all in all the literal message is that of reincarnation.

    In Hinduism, a person cannot achieve salvation unless he is reincarnated… at least a few times. =)[/quote]

    ______

    There are some similarities to Dharma and Buddhism that can relate to this show as well…..

  158. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315144"][quote comment="315141"]His grandpa seemed kinda young looking to be Christian’s dad. Maybe he doesn’t age no more either![/quote]

    I thought that also. He seemed to be only a few years older than Christian.[/quote]
    Alcoholism ages you as Christian appeared to be an alcoholic.

  159. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315149"]
    ++++++++++++++++
    And that was in the future, after the camp had been established and subsequently ransacked. I am liking the idea that they were not all “transported” to the same time. Although plastic bottles last a long time in landfills.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Yeah, they are ‘grouped’ again. Like how the skippers were together, but the Others weren’t with them. Now the O6 are grouped together, maybe Ben and the plants are together, collateral people, etc., etc…..

  160. Tasha says:

    Here is some interesting stuff on Dharma and Buddhism.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_(Buddhism)

  161. samhandley says:

    OK. Here are my theories…

    1. Charlie “visited” Hurley and told him to go back to the island.
    2. Claire “visited” Kate and told her to go back to the island but to leave Aaron here, presumably with her mom. (I totally think Kate gave him up voluntarily.)
    3. Maybe Shannon “visited” Sayed. He decided to turn himself into the authorities and head back to the island.

    In any case, the Island wants them all back, hence, the ghosts of the island are returning to get the unwilling to come back.

    Don’t think Ben killed anyone. I think he went to kill Penny but got his ass kicked by Desmond instead. Time will tell.

  162. Hope says:

    There definitely seemed to be importance to having similar situations to the original flight from Australia.

    On that original flight…..
    Jack was bringing his fathers body home
    Kate was arrested and with a US Marshall
    Jin was pregnant and trying to escape from her marriage with Jin – but changes her mind and does not leave him
    Hurley had gone to Australia to try to understand the numbers.
    I have forgotten why Sayid was on the flight from Australia

    My theory is that in this return flight, since some of the folks lifes have changed – another of the Oceanic 6 “filled in for the changes”

    For example:
    Sayid on the plane as a captured fugitive – a la Kate
    Kate (pregnant from her evening with Jack) traveling with the father of the baby – a la Sun
    Jack fulfilled the same role both times.
    Still trying to figure out Sun, Sayid, Hurley – any thoughts?

    Like several of you have mentioned, I think the woman Marshall and mystery man are plants from Widmore or Ben.

    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island. There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.

  163. DocH says:

    [quote]Last I heard, Guam was a US Territory. If Sayid were to be deported, it wouldn’t be to Guam! Not sure about extradition laws, but Guam isn’t a natural stopover for a trip from LA to Iraq.[/quote]
    [quote]Now why in the world would Sayid be deported to Guam? [/quote]
    jeez louise… Don’t you people think before you blog? He is not getting deported TO Guam prpoer, or even extradited there. He is not getting sent to Iraq either. GUAM is exactly halfway between LA and the Seychelles. Guam is the place where Sayid is going to be handed-over to Seychellean (sic?) authorities for the murder he committed on a golf course. Hmmmm? let me think – who knew about that? Who could have told authorities about the crime that Sayid committed… so that Sayid would be busted… and deported… thru Guam. Sorry, I’m stumped… I can’t think who.

    Anyway, I hear they have a super new rendition prison there for terrorists at the Naval Base. He can wait a few days in it waiting for Seychelles to pick-em up. I here it’s the new Guantanamo… (kinda like Club Med).

  164. samhandley says:

    [quote comment="315121"]Also something seemed fishy about Jack’s grandpa. Like he knew what was going on. Could he have a past connection to the island? This could help to explain Christian’s role in the overall story.[/quote]

    I’m totally with you on this one. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was part of the contigent on the island during the “Jughead” episode with Widmore & Ellie…

    I’m really into the idea of this being a circular generational story and this would play right into that.

  165. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315158"]There definitely seemed to be importance to having similar situations to the original flight from Australia.

    On that original flight…..
    Jack was bringing his fathers body home
    Kate was arrested and with a US Marshall
    Jin was pregnant and trying to escape from her marriage with Jin – but changes her mind and does not leave him
    Hurley had gone to Australia to try to understand the numbers.
    I have forgotten why Sayid was on the flight from Australia

    My theory is that in this return flight, since some of the folks lifes have changed – another of the Oceanic 6 “filled in for the changes”

    For example:
    Sayid on the plane as a captured fugitive – a la Kate
    Kate (pregnant from her evening with Jack) traveling with the father of the baby – a la Sun
    Jack fulfilled the same role both times.
    Still trying to figure out Sun, Sayid, Hurley – any thoughts?

    Like several of you have mentioned, I think the woman Marshall and mystery man are plants from Widmore or Ben.

    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island.

    There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.[/quote]
    Good correlations but Sun was not pregnant. I think you mean Claire Sun/Jin could not have children until they arrived on the island.

  166. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315158"]
    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island.

    There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    This seems fishy to me too. And whatever happened to the whole “If I move the island, I can’t come back, blah, blah, blah” that Ben laid on John? Just more trickery I guess; typical.

  167. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315159"][quote]Last I heard, Guam was a US Territory. If Sayid were to be deported, it wouldn’t be to Guam! Not sure about extradition laws, but Guam isn’t a natural stopover for a trip from LA to Iraq.[/quote]
    [quote]Now why in the world would Sayid be deported to Guam? [/quote]
    jeez louise… Don’t you people think before you blog? He is not getting deported TO Guam prpoer, or even extradited there. He is not getting sent to Iraq either. GUAM is exactly halfway between LA and the Seychelles. Guam is the place where Sayid is going to be handed-over to Seychellean (sic?) authorities for the murder he committed on a golf course. Hmmmm? let me think – who knew about that? Who could have told authorities about the crime that Sayid committed… so that Sayid would be busted… and deported… thru Guam. Sorry, I’m stumped… I can’t think who.

    Anyway, I hear they have a super new rendition prison there for terrorists at the Naval Base. He can wait a few days in it waiting for Seychelles to pick-em up. I here it’s the new Guantanamo… (kinda like Club Med).[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Oh, oh,….I have a guess who would know….:)

  168. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315162"][quote comment="315158"]
    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island.

    There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    This seems fishy to me too. And whatever happened to the whole “If I move the island, I can’t come back, blah, blah, blah” that Ben laid on John? Just more trickery I guess; typical.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.

  169. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315164"][quote comment="315162"][quote comment="315158"]
    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island.

    There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    This seems fishy to me too. And whatever happened to the whole “If I move the island, I can’t come back, blah, blah, blah” that Ben laid on John? Just more trickery I guess; typical.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    nice one!

  170. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315164"]
    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.[/quote]
    So the plane lands in Guam a couple passengers less? Did they disappear as Jin did in front of Danielle?

  171. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315119"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I took it as she knew he was asking for help to save Char….and Hawking is queen of course correction. (Which supports my theory that Dan has ALREADY tried to save Char and was unsuccessful. :))[/quote]

    *****************
    hmmmm, didn’t think about that… I guess you could be right. It would make sense that she would be all blaise blah about it. She would have none of that changing the pass to change the future nonsense.

  172. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315166"][quote comment="315164"]
    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.[/quote]
    So the plane lands in Guam a couple passengers less? Did they disappear as Jin did in front of Danielle?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I suppose if my theory holds, then yep.

  173. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315164"]

    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.[/quote]
    I just ran out to shovel off my driveway, and I was mulling this over. I could see the O6 somehow being transported off of the plane onto the island. But if Ben didn’t go with them, because he CAN’T go back to the island as you said earlier, why did he even bother getting on the plane?

  174. Laura says:

    [quote comment="315166"][quote comment="315164"]
    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.[/quote]
    So the plane lands in Guam a couple passengers less? Did they disappear as Jin did in front of Danielle?[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I don’t know about the whole vanishing-into-thin-air part…maybe some kind of memory blackout – like they don’t remember there were ever more passengers on the plane?

  175. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315159"]jeez louise… Don’t you people think before you blog? He is not getting deported TO Guam prpoer, or even extradited there. He is not getting sent to Iraq either. GUAM is exactly halfway between LA and the Seychelles. Guam is the place where Sayid is going to be handed-over to Seychellean (sic?) authorities for the murder he committed on a golf course. Hmmmm? let me think – who knew about that? Who could have told authorities about the crime that Sayid committed… so that Sayid would be busted… and deported… thru Guam. Sorry, I’m stumped… I can’t think who.
    [/quote]

    DocH, it is unlike you to lay the snark-factor on so thickly!

    However, your Seychelles theory makes sense. But is Guam really the kind of place where a transpacific airline flight would refuel? (Not being snarky, really asking!)

    : ) P

  176. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315169"][quote comment="315164"]

    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.[/quote]
    I just ran out to shovel off my driveway, and I was mulling this over.

    I could see the O6 somehow being transported off of the plane onto the island.

    But if Ben didn’t go with them, because he CAN’T go back to the island as you said earlier, why did he even bother getting on the plane?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    He could be like Dan, trying to change things but it just ain’t workin’. Hugo seemed to ‘know’ that Ben wasn’t supposed to be there and was afraid it was going to mess things up. I also think he got his butt kicked trying to kill Penny because she wasn’t supposed to die yet. I think Ben was wrong about Alex. Ben said the rules were changed, but maybe they weren’t. Maybe Ben is the one that messed everything up by moving the island and all of this is course correction.

  177. TheWhiteHorse says:

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

    A few thoughts/parallels from a Christian perspective:

    *John Locke gives his life. (Son/Jesus)
    *John Locke is incarnate/humanly form/made of flesh. (Son/Jesus)

    *Jacob/Christian is father figure. (God the Father)
    *Jacob/Christian is not of the flesh, is more spirit (God the Father)

    *In Christianity, when you believe in Christ, salvation is immediate.
    *When Jack read the suicide note, which said something to the effect of “I wish you would have believed,” it seemed at that point he did believe and the effect was immediate – turbulence, flash to island.

    *And then of course, in the real story, Jesus is resurrected in a bodily and spiritual form after He gives His life.
    *John will be resurrected in a different form after his return to the island?

    Just a few thoughts I thought I’d toss out there!

  178. Vaughn K says:

    I know you guys dont watch the preview for next week but it is going to be the single most exciting, important episode we have ever seen on this show before. I cannot wait for next week because it is going to be the best episode yet guarenteed. If anyone did watch the preview you know why lol. Unbelieveable.

  179. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315170"]
    I don’t know about the whole vanishing-into-thin-air part…maybe some kind of memory blackout – like they don’t remember there were ever more passengers on the plane?[/quote]
    That is what we are led to believe happens when the time shifts as what Danielle saw when Jin did it last week.

    DANIELLE: You! You disappeared! Are you sick too? You’re a carrier?

  180. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315171"][quote comment="315159"]jeez louise… Don’t you people think before you blog? He is not getting deported TO Guam prpoer, or even extradited there. He is not getting sent to Iraq either. GUAM is exactly halfway between LA and the Seychelles. Guam is the place where Sayid is going to be handed-over to Seychellean (sic?) authorities for the murder he committed on a golf course. Hmmmm? let me think – who knew about that? Who could have told authorities about the crime that Sayid committed… so that Sayid would be busted… and deported… thru Guam. Sorry, I’m stumped… I can’t think who.
    [/quote]

    DocH, it is unlike you to lay the snark-factor on so thickly!

    However, your Seychelles theory makes sense. But is Guam really the kind of place where a transpacific airline flight would refuel? (Not being snarky, really asking!)

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    No refueling because Ajira doesn’t fly to Seychelles. They would have to change airlines in Guam.

  181. DocH says:

    [quote comment="315164"]
    What do you think of my theory that Ben is still on the plane as it carries on to Guam? There doesn’t seem to be a crash and he’s NOT part of the O6. They had to re-enter under similar circumstances. There is a chance that he has to enter a different way.[/quote]
    - – - -
    Ben has the Christian Shephard magic shoes on. He got them off of Locke when his people did the security search of the casket… he found the letter too. That’s why he was late getting on-board the aircraft – things to do, inspectors to bribe.
    Ben’s going home to the island Wizard of OZ-style. Clicking some heels.

  182. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315172"] Maybe Ben is the one that messed everything up by moving the island and all of this is course correction.[/quote]
    I think your right there h but then that would mean Ben is supposed to return to the island if he was never supposed to move it. Course-correcting. I do not believe he CANT return, that is what he told our gullible Locke. Ben never lies also.:) Mrs. Hawking put a smile on my face when she said “probably not”, after being asked if he was telling the truth.

  183. Tasha says:

    I used to think that not too many people knew about the island but now it seems like everyone knew about it. SOmeone BUILT a station off the island so they could find the location? Under a church? Doesn’t surprise me that Charles funded Dan’s research especially if he built with that money…the one thing that can get him the island back. Now why they are helping Ben?? That is my question….something fishy is going on here!!!

    Is anyone here familiar with the Philadelphia experiment?

  184. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315162"][quote comment="315158"]
    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island.

    There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    This seems fishy to me too. And whatever happened to the whole “If I move the island, I can’t come back, blah, blah, blah” that Ben laid on John? Just more trickery I guess; typical.[/quote]
    **************
    I think Ben was telling a big fat lie in order to move the island himself and screw over Locke.

  185. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315179"]I used to think that not too many people knew about the island but now it seems like everyone knew about it. SOmeone BUILT a station off the island so they could find the location? Under a church? Doesn’t surprise me that Charles funded Dan’s research especially if he built with that money…the one thing that can get him the island back. Now why they are helping Ben?? That is my question….something fishy is going on here!!!

    Is anyone here familiar with the Philadelphia experiment?[/quote]
    DHARMA built the Lamp Post (under the church) DHARMA = Widmore funding. No more people added to the mix.

  186. lindsey says:

    I’m thinking that the boat with the ajira bottle is from the new losties and they were shooting at the old losties in the future which means Juliette could have shot a new lostie.

    I think Kate gave Aaron to Clare’s mom – she was in town.

  187. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315180"][quote comment="315162"][quote comment="315158"]
    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island.

    There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    This seems fishy to me too. And whatever happened to the whole “If I move the island, I can’t come back, blah, blah, blah” that Ben laid on John? Just more trickery I guess; typical.[/quote]
    **************
    I think Ben was telling a big fat lie in order to move the island himself and screw over Locke.[/quote]

    ____
    That’s what I am thinking. John was supposed to go and he screwed him over.

  188. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315178"][quote comment="315172"] Maybe Ben is the one that messed everything up by moving the island and all of this is course correction.[/quote]
    I think your right there h but then that would mean Ben is supposed to return to the island if he was never supposed to move it. Course-correcting. I do not believe he CANT return, that is what he told our gullible Locke. Ben never lies also.:) Mrs. Hawking put a smile on my face when she said “probably not”, after being asked if he was telling the truth.[/quote]

    **************
    I think Ben messed up when he got Jack to operate on him. That tumor was supposed to kill him and now there is a ton of course correction that has to go on.

  189. lindsey says:

    The lamp post in the C S Lewis’ Lion witch and wardrobe
    basically marked the place they could move from our world to Narnia. Time also moved differently in Narnia. One year our world time could have been a thousand years or just a couple Narnia years.

  190. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315182"]I’m thinking that the boat with the ajira bottle is from the new losties and they were shooting at the old losties in the future which means Juliette could have shot a new lostie.

    I think Kate gave Aaron to Clare’s mom – she was in town.[/quote]

    I agree with all that OR they were shooting at their future Selves…excluding Char or anyone else that dies….

  191. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315182"]I’m thinking that the boat with the ajira bottle is from the new losties and they were shooting at the old losties in the future which means Juliette could have shot a new lostie.
    [/quote]
    It couldn’t have been Kate, Jack or Hurley as they were in the past ( Dharma Days ). UNLESS, they start skipping through time also, which I hope not. The scene you are referring to happened AFTER the crash of flight 815 ( way past Dharma Days ).

  192. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315186"][quote comment="315182"]I’m thinking that the boat with the ajira bottle is from the new losties and they were shooting at the old losties in the future which means Juliette could have shot a new lostie.

    I think Kate gave Aaron to Clare’s mom – she was in town.[/quote]

    I agree with all that OR they were shooting at their future Selves…excluding Char or anyone else that dies….[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Man, I got shot down pretty hard when I said this theory back when it happened. :)

  193. lindsey says:

    That’s right – your right – I am so lost :-)

    What about the light they saw in the windows of the
    plane? Could they have been going over the island mid flash and the flash took them out of the plane?

  194. Trixanna says:

    I think the marshall’s days are numbered. She’s a red-shirt for sure, I don’t think she was a plant by Widmore or anyone else. She was just there to simulate Kate’s first trip.

    Why did Frank Lapidus look so different? I was pretty excited to find out he was the pilot.

    I have no idea what happened to Aaron but I would love to find out. Wasn’t it decided long ago that there was no couple in LA to adopt Aaron, that is just what the psychic told Claire to get her on the plane?

    I believe that Ben totally got Sayid busted for a murder that he had him commit. Maybe that was the “loose ends” he had to tie up.

    Fantastic episode! I need answers and I need them soon!!! LA Meeting anyone???

  195. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo. I hope I’m not beating a dead horse with this. You might sniff the bait and swim away and I hope I’m not harshing anyones buzz, but heres’ my ponder of the day(how ya like dem apples DH and L4E?):}.

    Aaron and Ji are not on the island…..yet. I I get the feeling we are being set up for a whole new generation for next season as Sun told Ji that she found a friend for her in the US (Aaron). We have a new Charlie, and people think Kate is going to be preggers (if that’s true…bad news for Saywer).

  196. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315188"][quote comment="315186"][quote comment="315182"]I’m thinking that the boat with the ajira bottle is from the new losties and they were shooting at the old losties in the future which means Juliette could have shot a new lostie.

    I think Kate gave Aaron to Clare’s mom – she was in town.[/quote]

    I agree with all that OR they were shooting at their future Selves…excluding Char or anyone else that dies….[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Man, I got shot down pretty hard when I said this theory back when it happened. :)[/quote]
    _____
    Not from me!! If you are talking about them shooting the new losties or future losties Hmmm…anyhow I DONT think it was just some random people they were shooting at!

  197. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315189"]That’s right – your right – I am so lost :-)

    What about the light they saw in the windows of the
    plane? Could they have been going over the island mid flash and the flash took them out of the plane?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Dude….I already said that. LOL.

  198. freckles20 says:

    JACK–”Wherever you are john, you must be laughing you A– off”

    that was funny:)

  199. DocH says:

    This Blog Needs A Hall Monitor.

    I nominate Hammer and/or duke… do I hear a second?

  200. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315197"]This Blog Needs A Hall Monitor.

    I nominate Hammer and/or duke… do I hear a second?[/quote]
    _____
    I don’t understand this hall monitor thing…Can you explain?

  201. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315197"]This Blog Needs A Hall Monitor.

    I nominate Hammer and/or duke… do I hear a second?[/quote]
    I second Duke, he seems to know his way around the net and investigates theories fairly well. Besides, didn’t Hammer do it before?

  202. DocH says:

    [quote comment="315198"]
    I don’t understand this hall monitor thing… Can you explain? [/quote]
    Real-world: A fellow student that enforces rules during school hours, when students are not in class… “no-running in the halls.”

    This joint: When snarky people start calling other snarky people ‘snarky’, or when rabid theorists expel venom at other rabid theorists, a fair-handed, open-minded blogger arbitrates said venom and snark.

  203. 6th here we come says:

    [quote comment="315077"][quote comment="315049"]Sayid has the handcuffs….Hurley has the guitar…..[/quote]
    Also a comic book – didn’t catch the name of it though.

    [quote comment="315051"]Course correction with the suicide note?[/quote]
    That was my take. Although I thought Jack’s line to Ben on the plane (something like, “I can’t get away from this thing”) was overkill by the writers.

    [quote comment="315054"]Frank Lapidus course correction? He was supposed to pilot the first plane. Now we know why Smokey killed the first pilot…he wasn’t supposed to be there.[/quote]
    Good call with Smokey – I like that idea.[/quote]

    The comic book name was “El Ultimo hombre” which means “the last man” in spanish. There was a skull on the cover with a hat.

  204. 6th here we come says:

    [quote comment="315097"]Anyone catch what book Ben was reading on the plane?

    And what about Walt?? Am I forgetting something, or did no one even try to get Walt on the plane?[/quote]

    It was called Ulysses by James Joyce

  205. 444EK8 says:

    On the plane to Guam Jack looks over and asks been Ben how he can be reading. Ben answers
    my mother taught me. In earlier episodes we
    learned that Bens mother died giving birth to him. Is this an error or has Ben changed the past…..

  206. Tasha says:

    If you search “top secret EY” in google…there is an interesting PDF document dealing with missiles in 1954.

  207. Claire says:

    Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?

  208. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315206"]On the plane to Guam Jack looks over and asks been Ben how he can be reading. Ben answers
    my mother taught me. In earlier episodes we
    learned that Bens mother died giving birth to him. Is this an error or has Ben changed the past…..[/quote]

    IMO he was being sarcastic.

  209. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315049"]Sayid has the handcuffs….Hurley has the guitar…..[/quote]
    50 comments left but, Yes Hammer, good points.

  210. Scooter says:

    [quote comment="315210"][quote comment="315206"]On the plane to Guam Jack looks over and asks been Ben how he can be reading. Ben answers
    my mother taught me. In earlier episodes we
    learned that Bens mother died giving birth to him. Is this an error or has Ben changed the past…..[/quote]

    IMO he was being sarcastic.[/quote]
    yes, but why not say his father taught him? Ben saw his mother as a child in a prev ep

  211. Kelly Mosser says:

    I was curious about why Hurley was carrying a guitar also. Any ideas on why Sahid is being marshalled to Guam? Is the agent working for the DHARMA initiative? I thought they were all dead?

  212. Toeknee says:

    In the scene at the church, Desmond refers to Ben by his name. I think the was brought up on a thread for a previous episode, but had Desmond and Ben ever met each other? I’m sure Ben knew who Desmond was, but I don’t recall any scenes where Desmond would have met Ben, so I don’t think Desmond would know Ben. Or am I forgetting something?

  213. Toeknee says:

    Have we ever seen Locke’s handwriting before? I’m wondering if he’s really the one who wrote that note. The content of the note is certainly something Locke would write. But I’ve never been sold on the whole “suicide” angle – I’m thinking Ben had something to do with his death, and then Ben concocted the suicide story and forged the suicide note. (although I’m probably wrong about that)

  214. kimm says:

    First time blogger.

    TO HAMMER [i think]:

    The comic book Hugo was reading is called “Y the Last Man” He had the spanish version of it. It is written by one of the producers: Brian K Vaughn. It is actually a really good series but I don’t see how it relates to LOST. I think it may be shameless self promotion maybe?

    Secondly, Sayid’s marshall lady, I haven’t had all the time to go through all the comments but, has anyone thought about Hawkings said to recreate as much as they can from the original flight. That’s why Jack is transporting another dead body, Hugo has the guitar case [presumably charlies] and Sayid is now in Kate’s place when she first arrived to the island, in handcuffs with a marshall. Sayid did look really surprised when they came on the plane.

    AHHH going to be late for school!

  215. kimm says:

    Oh yes, and also, clearly there are A LOT of missing parts [Aaron, how Hurley found out etc] and Sayid DID kill three people so maybe that is why he is with the marshall

  216. resoulution says:

    From LOSTPEDIA about Ben: “He exited through the sonar fence using a rabbit to make sure the fence was disabled.”

    Dead Rabbit = Dead Man in a coffin = Christian Shepard (1st round) = Locke (2nd round)

  217. Toeknee says:

    I’m trying to figure out part of the timeline here (and I know we’ll probably get a lot of this filled in next week)

    When we see Jin, it’s most likely in the ’70′s. And because he’s wearing a Dharma unifor, he’s got a gun, he’s driving the van, and he’s out by himself, I’m assuming he’s not new to DI – it seems like someone with that much apparent responsibility would have had to have been part of the DI for a while.

    Similarly, at the beginning of the season premiere, when we saw Daniel working at the construction of the Orchid Station, the construction foreman seemed comfortable in saying to Daniel that Dr. Chang and the time travel idea were crazy.

    I’m assuming those two scenes are taking place at the same general time, and that time is where Daniel, Jin, Sawyer, etc all ended up after Locke turned the FDW.

    Given all that, I’d say a considerable amount of time has passed in the lives of Daniel, Jin, Sawyer, etc between the time Locke turned the FDW and the time Jin finds Jack, Kate and Hurley. Like months, or even years, maybe even the full 3 years that the O6 have been away, so that Daniel and Jin have integrated into the DI. Right?

    So, then, how far into the future did Locke travel when he turned the FDW? Wouldn’t he have had to have been back in the US for the same amount of time Daniel and Jin have been part of the DI?

  218. Hammer says:

    I think are close if not correct Toeknee. I think Hugo went into the hospital very soon after getting home. He told Jack that Locke visited him at the home. My guess is that Locke didn’t just show up at the end of the 3 years and make a plea, then died. Maybe not the whole 3 years, but not just a couple of days either.

  219. LizS says:

    [quote comment="315075"]There was a theme from season one where major characters would see pivotol people from their past in the jungle and episode flashbacks would describe loose ends, mistakes, and bad life decisions and there was this urgency to make things right. This dynamic parallels the idea in Christianity that salvation/redemption/eternal life is possible even after major errors in one’s life. It’s an idea of being LOST and then found;finding eternal life/true life. Could a major theme that will be tied up have to do with the idea that before coming to the Island all the characters are LOST in someway and that after their experience with the island they will find salvation/redemption/eternal life by tying up loose ends, making amends and peace with issues from their past? And I keep thinking about the storyline of the Others taking “good” plane passengers versus not taking “bad” ones. Anybody have similar thoughts?[/quote]
    ____
    Yes, I’ve always thought that too–or at least hoped that was at the base of it. Redemption.
    Liz

  220. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315246"]I think are close if not correct Toeknee. I think Hugo went into the hospital very soon after getting home. He told Jack that Locke visited him at the home. My guess is that Locke didn’t just show up at the end of the 3 years and make a plea, then died. Maybe not the whole 3 years, but not just a couple of days either.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Hugo did not tell Jack that Locke came to him at the visit I was thinking of, he just said that they shouldn’t have left… sorry. It was implied that he knew who Jeremey was when Walt came to see him.

  221. vavila says:

    Some thoughts/ideas:

    If Jin and others traveleld and got stuck in 70s then they may not age like Alpert until they catch up with their timeline (start aging after 2004)

    Christian when transported by Jack originally was a proxy for someone else; now Locke is a proxy because he was on the original flight. However in future, family members may be used to ‘recreate’ the original flight. What i mean is that Christian could have been a proxy for someone and Jack could have been a proxy for Christian since they are related on the orginal flight. Just an idea. This can be one of the reasons why kids are important…

    Grandpa knew whats up… those shoes were conviently there for a reason… it is a generational course correction effort at least for some losties…

  222. vavila says:

    I don’t have enough info yet, but I am also beginning to re-evaluate the whole Widmore vs Ben and co… I think that Widmore has been crucial in the course correction – he did not let Des marry Penny (but right now they are together and he could have stopped this, but he wanted to stop them then not now), he sponsored the sailing race, which brought Des to the island (Hawkins told Des this is where he ought to be and Widmore made it happen). Right now Widmore knows where Hawkins is and she works with Ben, and he sponsored her son’s research – sounds more like allies. I do think that Widmore thinks that Ben took his palce in the island, but i do not think it is one side vs. another anymore… What do you guys think?

  223. Tasha says:

    Don’t remember if this was mentioned, but can a plane that size fly internationally? Shouldn’t they be on an airbus or something?

  224. lostfan says:

    [quote comment="315173"]“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

    A few thoughts/parallels from a Christian perspective:

    *John Locke gives his life. (Son/Jesus)
    *John Locke is incarnate/humanly form/made of flesh. (Son/Jesus)

    *Jacob/Christian is father figure. (God the Father)
    *Jacob/Christian is not of the flesh, is more spirit (God the Father)

    *In Christianity, when you believe in Christ, salvation is immediate.
    *When Jack read the suicide note, which said something to the effect of “I wish you would have believed,” it seemed at that point he did believe and the effect was immediate – turbulence, flash to island.

    *And then of course, in the real story, Jesus is resurrected in a bodily and spiritual form after He gives His life.
    *John will be resurrected in a different form after his return to the island?

    Just a few thoughts I thought I’d toss out there![/quote]

    In keeping with these biblical references – and to draw together the other comments about the O6 being pulled out of the airplane…has anyone read even the first book in the Left Behind series?

    In Left Behind – a fictional recounting of the book of Revelations in the bible – the very first chapters take place on an airplane. Suddenly, without warning, people disappear from the plane. Those “left behind” are left to wonder what happened to them. Those in the know – realize it was the “rapture” when God pulls those who have been saved up to Heaven. It is the precurser to the second-coming of Christ.

  225. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315251"]I don’t have enough info yet, but I am also beginning to re-evaluate the whole Widmore vs Ben and co… I think that Widmore has been crucial in the course correction – he did not let Des marry Penny (but right now they are together and he could have stopped this, but he wanted to stop them then not now), he sponsored the sailing race, which brought Des to the island (Hawkins told Des this is where he ought to be and Widmore made it happen). Right now Widmore knows where Hawkins is and she works with Ben, and he sponsored her son’s research – sounds more like allies. I do think that Widmore thinks that Ben took his palce in the island, but i do not think it is one side vs. another anymore… What do you guys think?[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Interesting. I had mentioned before that I thought maybe Widmore was kind of ‘letting’ the O6 and Des do their thing because it HAS to happen or ‘God help us all’. He also may be letting this happen so that he can ‘follow’ them to the island.

  226. lostfan says:

    another question – did anyone catch when Ben said, “We’re all convinced sooner or later, John.” He was saying this to Jack. Coincidence?

  227. Becky says:

    This episode was great, but left me with so many questions. I posted them on my blog here: http://thevioletfig.com/?p=537#content I hope you’ll come help me with your theories!

  228. LostinSev says:

    Now, do all of the O6ers think they are going back to the island for good? They sort of act like they will be coming back home (LA). If I were going back to stay forever, I would have packed more!! LOL

  229. birdwatcher says:

    Did anyone watch the re-run of “This Place is Death” before “316″. I missed what the captions at the bottom said about the smoke monster when it pulled Montand into the ground. I hope someone can answer this. I don’t think it’s considered a spoiler or anything – right?

    Also, just my two cents, I think the Losties who were skipping through time, stopped in the 70s when John turned the wheel and spent thr same 3 years there. So 3 years went by for everyone (except Locke, I guess), just in different time periods.

    Thanks

  230. Missy says:

    Great episode – posed a few new questions in addition to the ones we’re already chomping at the bit for answers on – but next week looks fantastic!

    My thoughts on 316:

    Aaron – I suspect that Kate left him with Claire’s mother. Perhaps that was the other part of Ben’s plan to entice Kate to come back to the island – knowing that there was someone (family) that would take care of him. Claire’s mum had to have been in LA for more than just a check from the airlines – and we know her “lawyer” is more than what meets the eye.

    Penny – I hope that by judging by the beating Ben got that means she is alive and Desmond pummeled his @ss. I definitely think that she was the “thing he promised an old friend” he take care of. Ben was phoning Jack from what looked to be a pier or marina – perhaps where Des’ boat was docked.

    The airport/plane – Would you want to ride on a plane with 6 folks who have all crashed together before, a bloodied up evil little man and one man who insists on buying up all the extra seats? Me thinks that all the Ajira people have to be in the know – similar to how all the Oceanic people were in the know. Heck – Kate’s not even allowed to leave the state, let alone travel to Guam – wouldn’t she have to show ID of some sort?

    The crash – Or lack there of. The ones we’ve seen so far looked as if they did the time traveling thing right off the plane, not making it to wherever the plane crashes. They’ve definitely jumped back into the past. Was that Jeronimo Jackson that was blaring out of the VW bus?

    Charlotte – In watching the “This Place is Death” enhanced version last night something I noticed something. Charlotte yells (in Korean and English) “Don’t bring her back…” she never says Sun or Ji Yeon but we assume that’s who she means since she is looking at Jin; however, do you think that’s the moment she has that memory of Daniel from her childhood warning her? Shortly after the scene with Jin, she tells Daniel of that memory and describes what he said to her – it sounds just like the message she repeated to Jin.

  231. Missy says:

    Here’s a list of scenes I hope to see explaining unanswered things. Feel free to elaborate, add your own, or tell me how bunk these scenes would be.

    • Old man Daniel telling little girl Charlotte to not come back to the island, and Charlotte telling her dad (Goodspeed) good-bye
    • Kate turning over Aaron to Claire’s mom in her hotel room
    • Daniel coming up with all of those crazy equations his mom was talking about
    • An explanation of what the heck the smoke monster is
    • A glimpse of all the people who have been in the temple all this time
    • Charlie programming the device in the looking glass – remember it was programmed by a musician
    • How the “Jughead” gets buried
    • When Alex was stolen from Danielle as a baby
    • Someone programming the numbers to broadcast from the radio tower…hey, maybe it’s Hurley who does it!
    • Someone showing their bare feet and revealing only FOUR toes
    • And finally….The INCIDENT!

  232. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="315046"][quote comment="315042"]Sayid did not want to go with ben i bet.[/quote]
    That maybe OR Des beat his butt because he was trying to kill Penny…..loose ends with an ‘old friend’.[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    I’ll speculate a bit further and say that Ben went to go kill Penny — and did.

    Now we know why Ben gave a funny look when he saw Des — he knew how to find Penny.

  233. Mia says:

    In response to those who were wondering why Ben would go on the plane after stating he can’t go back to the island – perhaps he was there to make sure Jack read the note from Locke to ensure the plane crashes?

  234. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="315072"]I think there may have been another Widmore plant on Ajira airways. The Middle-Earstern guy sitting next to Hurley.[/quote]

    Totally agree that there are “plants” on the plane. If Hawking knew abt the plane, then Widmore knows.

  235. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="315086"][quote comment="315071"][quote comment="315045"]Where the heck is Aaron???[/quote]
    Promise me you’ll never ask that question again![/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I think Kate gave Aaron to the couple in LA that the psychic said is supposed to raise him.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I think Kate was visted by Claire again, or Claire and Christian, and was told what she had to do with Aaron.

  236. intolost says:

    I like the Biblical references. Yes, it is like the Left Behind rapture. Where are Ben, Sun, and Sayid? I liked Ben’s note about the Apostle Thomas in the church.

    Sure, Sayid may very well be taken via Guam to Seychelles.

    Sayid must’ve beat up Ben. Wow!

    Jin looks good in the Dharma outfit! So, are Jules, Sawyer, and the other losties on island now Dharma?

    Not looking forward to Locke’s demise next episode. That’s terrible.

  237. Tasha says:

    Has anyone brought this up? Besides me awhile back?

    Did Kate seem a little bit off? I still say she looked dead. Remember that movie the Sixth Sense? I mean something seemed off besides the fact that she lost or gave up Aaron. I never saw her interact with any other character.

    When she is laying in Jack’s bed, how the heck does he hear her when she is just laying there lifeless? He walks in and the music sounds like….WHEN THE SAINTS GO MARCHING IN….the first 3 notes. They play it twice. Creepy huh? That song is traditional for a funeral march. It is nicknamed “The Monster” by some jazz musicians.

    Then the next morning she makes the comment, “Why hold on to something that makes you feel sad?” Aaron maybe??

    Here is a common standard version of the song…

    We are trav’ling in the footsteps
    Of those who’ve gone before,
    And we’ll all be reunited,
    On a new and sunlit shore,

    Oh, when the saints go marching in
    Oh, when the saints go marching in
    Lord, how I want to be in that number
    When the saints go marching in

    And when the sun refuse to shine
    And when the sun refuse to shine
    Lord, how I want to be in that number
    When the sun refuse to shine

    And when the moon turns red with blood
    And when the moon turns red with blood
    Lord, how I want to be in that number
    When the moon turns red with blood

    Oh, when the trumpet sounds its call
    Oh, when the trumpet sounds its call
    Lord, how I want to be in that number
    When the trumpet sounds its call

    Some say this world of trouble,
    Is the only one we need,
    But I’m waiting for that morning,
    When the new world is revealed.

  238. sector7 says:

    You all realize that unless something significant happened to Des after leaving Hawking, that his story appears to be done. Why else would we see him again? Has to be something like Ben killed Penny so Des goes back to the island to avenge her death…

  239. Mia says:

    Hi chemicalbuddha – You wrote that “In Hinduism, a person cannot achieve salvation unless he is reincarnated… at least a few times.” Reincarnation is a huge part of Hinduism but the life long goal is to NOT be reincarnated, the goal is to reach nirvana and go to “heaven”. If you are reincarnated that means that you did not do things “properly” (morally, honorably, etc) in your life and you keep reincarnating until you do. I am eastern Indian and grew up with Hindu parents so I know… :)

  240. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315202"]This joint: When snarky people start calling other snarky people ‘snarky’, or when rabid theorists expel venom at other rabid theorists, a fair-handed, open-minded blogger arbitrates said venom and snark.[/quote]

    DocH, I hope that I didn’t offend when I said it was “unlike you to lay the snark-factor on so thickly!” I thought your post, “jeez louise… Don’t you people think before you blog?” WAS kind of snarky, and as a friend, I called you on it because it was out of character for you, I think.

    Perhaps you were responding to MY post: “Last I heard, Guam was a US Territory. If Sayid were to be deported, it wouldn’t be to Guam! Not sure about extradition laws, but Guam isn’t a natural stopover for a trip from LA to Iraq.”

    If you interpreted that post as snarky, I am really sorry that it came across that way. I certainly didn’t INTEND for it to.

    I regret that I have offended you, if I did. I apologize.

    : ) P
    (who heretofore will refrain from using the word SNARK because really, it is a WEIRD word! LOL)

  241. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315273"]You all realize that unless something significant happened to Des after leaving Hawking, that his story appears to be done. Why else would we see him again? Has to be something like Ben killed Penny so Des goes back to the island to avenge her death…[/quote]
    Yup.
    Or Ben killed little Charlie.

  242. Toeknee says:

    Some Numbers:

    Date on photo of island – 9/23/54
    Flight left from gate 15
    Jack was in row 8

  243. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315278"]Some Numbers:

    Date on photo of island – 9/23/54
    Flight left from gate 15
    Jack was in row 8[/quote]

    Co-incidentally, the date is FIFTY YEARS (less one day) before the date of the Oceanic crash.

    : ) P

  244. Vaughn K says:

    I cant remember what comment it is but the whole why did Hurley buy all the tickets? i really think that the only reason he bought them was because he tought the plane would crash again and didnt want those people to die. not everything in the show has a bigger message.

    also, eloise hawkings is ellie (army girl from 1954 on island) because at the church she had a picture of the island that was taken by someone from the u.s. army in 1954. thats a little too coincidental.

  245. Rach says:

    [quote comment="315253"]Don’t remember if this was mentioned, but can a plane that size fly internationally? Shouldn’t they be on an airbus or something?[/quote]

    LOL! I just think it’s funny that we can suspend our reality to the time-traveling, reincarnation, smoke monster, polar bear on tropical island…but we question the size of the plane!!!

  246. Mia says:

    Being the mother of young children, doesn’t it seem very unbelievable to you that two mothers (Kate, Sun) could leave their children and go off to an island that is supposedly moving and the first time they were on it they had to endure incredible ordeals to leave? Makes me wonder what amazing reasons were given to Kate to go and what other things Sun knows that we don’t.

  247. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="315282"]Being the mother of young children, doesn’t it seem very unbelievable to you that two mothers (Kate, Sun) could leave their children and go off to an island that is supposedly moving and the first time they were on it they had to endure incredible ordeals to leave? Makes me wonder what amazing reasons were given to Kate to go and what other things Sun knows that we don’t.[/quote]

    i am obviously not a mother so you would know more than me but with the case of sun at least…if your husband was presumed dead but may actually be alive wouldnt you want to go find him and at least know if he is alive or dead especially when someone says they know for a fact that he is alive. plus she may be under the impression that they can get back again whenever thinking they can be one big happy family again when they get back but i dont think that they will ever see the real world again. could be wrong. probably am.

  248. LostinSev says:

    Okay, I am trying to wrap my mind around what all of this could mean! I see the references to Literature, the Bible, Physics, etc., but what is the final outcome suppose to be??

    It is like putting a huge puzzle together without knowing what the picture is.

    What do you all think the purpose of going back to the island is for the O6′ers?

    To protect it? Widmore knows it is moving and they know how to get back to the island, so why are they going back? I know you all don’t know all the answers, but I guess I am getting frustrated because I don’t know if all the simmilarites make a difference anyway (other than make us crazy).

    Theories on why it matters. Are the O6′ers going back to bring the rest home? I think Smokie does a great job protecting the island itself, do they don’t need to protect it. Time travel….to change the past…to change the future?

    I still think everyone is in some building somewhere, ALL in comas (mind manipulation) and Daniel/Christian are the MAD SCIENTIST/DOCTOR (all funded by Widmore) controlling it all.

  249. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315267"]In response to those who were wondering why Ben would go on the plane after stating he can’t go back to the island – perhaps he was there to make sure Jack read the note from Locke to ensure the plane crashes?[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I heard that on the radio too. Not buying it. I don’t think the plane crashed, they just passed thru their window, when they got to it.

  250. Toeknee says:

    More thoughts about the plane “crash”:

    It may still be possible that the plane crashed on the island. Yes, we saw no evidence of it, no wreckage on the island, but the plane crashed in 2007/2008. When we see Jack, Hurley and Kate back on the island it’s the 70′s or 80′s. So if the plane itself doesn’t time travel, there’d be no wreckage on the island at the time we saw it.

    On the other hand, if there were no crash, what is the reaction of the others on the plane – 5 (or more) passengers (and 5 of the O6!) just disappeared right in front of our eyes. How does that story get explained to the world (or covered up)?

  251. Jaime says:

    PJ, ESB, NikkiV, Intolost……I wanted to let you guys know that the new TV set up was AWESOME!!!

    132″][quote comment="315114"]Why would Sayid be in handcuffs on a plane bound for Guam, escorted by what appeared to me a federal marshall?[/quote]

    The Federal Marshal thing is probably not really true. My guess is that Ben created some kind of fake documents and had him arrested because he knew it was the ONLY way to get him on the plane.
    : ) P[/quote]
    ********************************
    This also mimics the Fed Marshall/Kate from Oceanic

    [quote comment="315191"]
    Aaron and Ji are not on the island…..yet. I I get the feeling we are being set up for a whole new generation for next season as Sun told Ji that she found a friend for her in the US (Aaron). We have a new Charlie, and people think Kate is going to be preggers (if that’s true…bad news for Saywer).[/quote]
    **************************************
    Aaron and Ji…another possibility for Adam and Eve??

    1.Jack was in seat 8C, does anyone know what seats everyone else were in?

    2. Did anyone notice the Oceanic Airliner behind the Ajira plane when it was taking off?

    3.I took a closer look at the Dharma Logo on Jins uniform. It’s partially hidden but it almost looks like a star of some sort. Someone check it out and let me know what you think.

    4. I heard that next weeks ep will run 6 minutes over. Those of you recording be aware

  252. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315277"][quote comment="315273"]You all realize that unless something significant happened to Des after leaving Hawking, that his story appears to be done. Why else would we see him again? Has to be something like Ben killed Penny so Des goes back to the island to avenge her death…[/quote]
    Yup.
    Or Ben killed little Charlie.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Or, like Michael, the island is not done with him yet…..like Hawking said. Remember that he IS Dan’s constant.

  253. ESB says:

    another SWEET episode…a little slower then the last few but still really good…

    LOVE Ms. Hawking…she’s one spooky lady…seems like she might bake cookies for the neighborhood kids, but sprinkle a little rat poison on the top right after she takes them out of the oven…

    LOVED when she said ‘probably not’ in response to Jack asking her if Ben was telling the truth…classic…

    also, loved when Ben said ‘i’m reading because my mother taught me how’ to Jack on the plane…;)

    got chills when they finally showed what Locke had written in the letter to Jack…”i wish you would have believed me.”

    and just what in the heck did Kate do to/with Aaron? and wasn’t he part of the O6? shouldn’t he have been brought back also?

    GREAT stuff. this show rules.
    Bad Robot! ;)

  254. Eric says:

    VaughnK Comment 244

    On Ms. Hawking and Ellie from 1954 being the same person.

    I agree 100%. Does this make Widmore his father?

  255. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="315218"][quote comment="315210"][quote comment="315206"]On the plane to Guam Jack looks over and asks been Ben how he can be reading. Ben answers
    my mother taught me. In earlier episodes we
    learned that Bens mother died giving birth to him. Is this an error or has Ben changed the past…..[/quote]

    IMO he was being sarcastic.[/quote]
    yes, but why not say his father taught him? Ben saw his mother as a child in a prev ep[/quote]

    It was just an irrelevant quip from Ben. He has a million of those.

  256. ESB says:

    [quote comment="315287"]PJ, ESB, NikkiV, Intolost……I wanted to let you guys know that the new TV set up was AWESOME!!![/quote]

    **************************************

    haha, SWEET! it’s cool being able to see every pore, eyelash and beard hair so clearly, isn’t it? ;)

  257. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315286"]More thoughts about the plane “crash”:

    It may still be possible that the plane crashed on the island. Yes, we saw no evidence of it, no wreckage on the island, but the plane crashed in 2007/2008. When we see Jack, Hurley and Kate back on the island it’s the 70′s or 80′s. So if the plane itself doesn’t time travel, there’d be no wreckage on the island at the time we saw it.

    On the other hand, if there were no crash, what is the reaction of the others on the plane – 5 (or more) passengers (and 5 of the O6!) just disappeared right in front of our eyes. How does that story get explained to the world (or covered up)?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Good points….but they were touching the plane…LOL.

    As far as a cover up? They had a plane in the ocean with ALL the passengers in it…then 6 folks arrived alive…..

  258. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315293"][quote comment="315286"]More thoughts about the plane “crash”:

    It may still be possible that the plane crashed on the island. Yes, we saw no evidence of it, no wreckage on the island, but the plane crashed in 2007/2008. When we see Jack, Hurley and Kate back on the island it’s the 70′s or 80′s. So if the plane itself doesn’t time travel, there’d be no wreckage on the island at the time we saw it.

    On the other hand, if there were no crash, what is the reaction of the others on the plane – 5 (or more) passengers (and 5 of the O6!) just disappeared right in front of our eyes. How does that story get explained to the world (or covered up)?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Good points….but they were touching the plane…LOL.

    As far as a cover up? They had a plane in the ocean with ALL the passengers in it…then 6 folks arrived alive…..[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Oh, and either way, they need a story because those O6ers are GONE again!!!!!

  259. Tasker says:

    [quote comment="315271"]Has anyone brought this up? Besides me awhile back?

    Did Kate seem a little bit off? I still say she looked dead. I mean something seemed off besides the fact that she lost or gave up Aaron. I never saw her interact with any other character.

    When she is laying in Jack’s bed, how the heck does he hear her when she is just laying there lifeless?

    —————————————
    I thought the same thing – she looked dead. I really hope they aren’t heading towards a “The Sixth Sense” cop-out explanation.

  260. ESB says:

    [quote comment="315287"]
    Aaron and Ji…another possibility for Adam and Eve??

    [/quote]

    I have always thought that Adam and Eve will end up being Aaron and Ji Yeon…occasionally, i talk myself out of it, thinking that it’s too obvious but then i go always go back to it…and some things Sun has said in the last few episodes, make me think it’s true…;)

  261. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315288"][quote comment="315277"][quote comment="315273"]You all realize that unless something significant happened to Des after leaving Hawking, that his story appears to be done. Why else would we see him again? Has to be something like Ben killed Penny so Des goes back to the island to avenge her death…[/quote]
    Yup.
    Or Ben killed little Charlie.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Or, like Michael, the island is not done with him yet…..like Hawking said. Remember that he IS Dan’s constant.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Right the island isn’t done with him yet. But a series of events have been put in motion, perhaps by the island, that lead to Desmond returning to the island:

    Freighter folks fail in mission to kill everyone on island
    Desmond gets off island
    Keamy kills Alex
    Ben seeks revenge, kills Penny and/or Charlie
    Desmond seeks revenge, goes to the island to find Ben

  262. Vaughn K says:

    i dont know about the rest of you but i would be completly blown away if we never saw desmond again. i believe aside from locke and jack, desmond is the most important character in the show not to mention that he came in the first episode of season 2. they would not have him be such a huge part of the show and than just have him walk out a door and never return. trust me desmond will be back.

  263. ESB says:

    i don’t think for one second that the island or the show are done with Desmond…;)

  264. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315298"]i dont know about the rest of you but i would be completly blown away if we never saw desmond again. i believe aside from locke and jack, desmond is the most important character in the show not to mention that he came in the first episode of season 2. they would not have him be such a huge part of the show and than just have him walk out a door and never return. trust me desmond will be back.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    You are correct, no way he’s done.

    Plus, I still think he and Penny are Adam and Eve (even though Ji and Aaron are showing up big on the radar).

  265. wallyp says:

    something is up with Kate, suddenly so cryptic! Maybe Kate from the future has taken over her body in 2007! Maybe Kate from the future isn’t actually there except in Jacks head! Either way, she’s kinda sexy when she’s being all dark and creepy…no? If she is somehow “dead” maybe she needs to have her pregnancy on the island.

    I had a thought about Suns pregnancy. Her purpose being to go to the island, get pregnant, bring the baby home where its safe, go back to the island… and get pregnant again…,etc.

    And Frank Lapidus definately cleaned up for the occasion, right? Did anyone ask him what year it was? Tell me he’s getting somebody pregnant. Juliet?

    Jack waking up on the ground was perfect. I had been waiting for it… they even showed it twice. Who remembers if he had a note in his hand or not in the season one opener?

    Great episode, even though it seemed deliberately choppy… I thinks this is just the events from Jacks point of View though, and we’ll get more POVs soon to fill in the holes.

  266. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="315082"]Ben gets up to give Jack privacy, Jack reads the note, then the plane “crashes” or whatever.

    Was the island waiting for Jack to read the letter before the crash could occur?

    Or did Ben do something when he got up to cause the crash?

    Or, by getting up and walking to the front of the plane, did Ben create a condition similar to Charlie getting up on OA815 just before that crash, and that allowed the crash to occur at that moment?[/quote]
    ***************************************************
    Lostpedia says….cannon?
    Jack needed to read the letter because Sawyer was reading his letter to “Sawyer” when the plane started going down. Ben was in the bathroom because Charlie was in the bathroom when the plane went down.

  267. ESB says:

    [quote comment="315294"][quote comment="315293"][quote comment="315286"]More thoughts about the plane “crash”:

    It may still be possible that the plane crashed on the island. Yes, we saw no evidence of it, no wreckage on the island, but the plane crashed in 2007/2008. When we see Jack, Hurley and Kate back on the island it’s the 70′s or 80′s. So if the plane itself doesn’t time travel, there’d be no wreckage on the island at the time we saw it.

    On the other hand, if there were no crash, what is the reaction of the others on the plane – 5 (or more) passengers (and 5 of the O6!) just disappeared right in front of our eyes. How does that story get explained to the world (or covered up)?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Good points….but they were touching the plane…LOL.

    As far as a cover up? They had a plane in the ocean with ALL the passengers in it…then 6 folks arrived alive…..[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Oh, and either way, they need a story because those O6ers are GONE again!!!!![/quote]

    ******************************

    i don’t think they will bother much with giving us a new story about the O6 in the ‘real’ world, because in my opinion (except maybe in flash backs) the O6 are done with the ‘real’ world…i think from here on out it’s going to be about the O6 and the island…more flash backs? maybe…flash forwards? think we are done with those…the O6 are back! ;)

  268. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="315083"]Can someone please explain to me why no one, especially Jack, asked Ben what happenned to him?[/quote]
    I think they were all igniring each other/ trying to make it look like they were not all traveling together. Jack could have asked him, but why ask when you know you are very unlikely to get an honest answer

  269. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315304"][quote comment="315294"][quote comment="315293"][quote comment="315286"]More thoughts about the plane “crash”:

    It may still be possible that the plane crashed on the island. Yes, we saw no evidence of it, no wreckage on the island, but the plane crashed in 2007/2008. When we see Jack, Hurley and Kate back on the island it’s the 70′s or 80′s. So if the plane itself doesn’t time travel, there’d be no wreckage on the island at the time we saw it.

    On the other hand, if there were no crash, what is the reaction of the others on the plane – 5 (or more) passengers (and 5 of the O6!) just disappeared right in front of our eyes. How does that story get explained to the world (or covered up)?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Good points….but they were touching the plane…LOL.

    As far as a cover up? They had a plane in the ocean with ALL the passengers in it…then 6 folks arrived alive…..[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Oh, and either way, they need a story because those O6ers are GONE again!!!!![/quote]

    ******************************

    i don’t think they will bother much with giving us a new story about the O6 in the ‘real’ world, because in my opinion (except maybe in flash backs) the O6 are done with the ‘real’ world…i think from here on out it’s going to be about the O6 and the island…more flash backs? maybe…flash forwards? think we are done with those…the O6 are back! ;)[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Agreed, I was just saying…..

  270. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="315263"]

    Also, just my two cents, I think the Losties who were skipping through time, stopped in the 70s when John turned the wheel and spent thr same 3 years there. So 3 years went by for everyone (except Locke, I guess), just in different time periods.

    Thanks[/quote]
    I think that the O6 spend three years in the real world, while the rest of the Losties spend three years becoming part of Dharma. Locke “skipped” some time when he turned the wheel to the real world. Kind of like Ben. After he turned up in Tunesia (after turning the wheel) he asked what year it was.

  271. ESB says:

    [quote comment="315302"]something is up with Kate, suddenly so cryptic! Maybe Kate from the future has taken over her body in 2007! Maybe Kate from the future isn’t actually there except in Jacks head! Either way, she’s kinda sexy when she’s being all dark and creepy…no? If she is somehow “dead” maybe she needs to have her pregnancy on the island.

    I had a thought about Suns pregnancy. Her purpose being to go to the island, get pregnant, bring the baby home where its safe, go back to the island… and get pregnant again…,etc.

    And Frank Lapidus definately cleaned up for the occasion, right? Did anyone ask him what year it was? Tell me he’s getting somebody pregnant. Juliet?

    Jack waking up on the ground was perfect. I had been waiting for it… they even showed it twice. Who remembers if he had a note in his hand or not in the season one opener?

    Great episode, even though it seemed deliberately choppy… I thinks this is just the events from Jacks point of View though, and we’ll get more POVs soon to fill in the holes.[/quote]

    i’m pretty sure he did not have a note in his hand in the season opener…

  272. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315307"][quote comment="315263"]

    Also, just my two cents, I think the Losties who were skipping through time, stopped in the 70s when John turned the wheel and spent thr same 3 years there. So 3 years went by for everyone (except Locke, I guess), just in different time periods.

    Thanks[/quote]
    I think that the O6 spend three years in the real world, while the rest of the Losties spend three years becoming part of Dharma. Locke “skipped” some time when he turned the wheel to the real world. Kind of like Ben. After he turned up in Tunesia (after turning the wheel) he asked what year it was.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Hopefully we will find out how long John was Jeremey. I think that will directly confirm how long the skippers were in the 70′s.

  273. Miraks says:

    It really bothers me that Jack let Kate get away with the “don’t ever ask about Aaron again” thing. This is a boy he was raising as his own son AND who was his real life nephew. You would think he would want to know what happened to him.

    I think Hurley is going back because he got a visit from Charlie who asked him to come back and bring him a new guitar :-)

  274. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315310"]It really bothers me that Jack let Kate get away with the “don’t ever ask about Aaron again” thing. This is a boy he was raising as his own son AND who was his real life nephew. You would think he would want to know what happened to him.

    I think Hurley is going back because he got a visit from Charlie who asked him to come back and bring him a new guitar :-)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I wonder if that guitar was for proxy use that same way as the shoes?……nah.

  275. SBT says:

    duke
    Comment 127, posted 12 hours, 33 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Also something seemed fishy about Jack’s grandpa. Like he knew what was going on. Could he have a past connection to the island? This could help to explain Christian’s role in the overall story.

    i know this is waaay out there, but i think jacks grandpa is jacob which would link christian to jacob, claire and now aaron.
    it would also be interesting if kate did get pregnant after her night with jack!

  276. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315312"]duke
    Comment 127, posted 12 hours, 33 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Also something seemed fishy about Jack’s grandpa. Like he knew what was going on. Could he have a past connection to the island? This could help to explain Christian’s role in the overall story.

    i know this is waaay out there, but i think jacks grandpa is jacob which would link christian to jacob, claire and now aaron.
    it would also be interesting if kate did get pregnant after her night with jack![/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Post 139.

  277. Tasha says:

    I think the plane ends up on the island, maybe in a different time. I don’t buy the whole, the O6 disappear off the plane in front of everyone. I believe Frank Lapidus is going back on that island. He was supposed to be there to begin with. So if he flashes off the plane, who is going to fly it? It will surely be doomed then! So there. That is solved! Hee Hee J/K. I am sure people disagree.

  278. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315313"][quote comment="315312"]duke
    Comment 127, posted 12 hours, 33 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Also something seemed fishy about Jack’s grandpa. Like he knew what was going on. Could he have a past connection to the island? This could help to explain Christian’s role in the overall story.

    i know this is waaay out there, but i think jacks grandpa is jacob which would link christian to jacob, claire and now aaron.
    it would also be interesting if kate did get pregnant after her night with jack![/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Post 139.[/quote]

    In the Bible, Jacob is the great-great-grandfather of Aaron.

  279. Miraks says:

    Ulysses is considered in many ways a modern version of the Odyssey, with many parallels between the two books. Maybe the reason why it was blatantly displayed as the book Ben was reading was to give us a further hint. In the past Desmond has been compared to Oddyseus and all his adventures and travails before finding his way back home (with a “Penelope” waiting for him). It could mean that the person Ben went to see when he got beat up was really Dez and family.

  280. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315314"]I think the plane ends up on the island, maybe in a different time. I don’t buy the whole, the O6 disappear off the plane in front of everyone. I believe Frank Lapidus is going back on that island. He was supposed to be there to begin with. So if he flashes off the plane, who is going to fly it? It will surely be doomed then! So there. That is solved! Hee Hee J/K. I am sure people disagree.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Here’s a compromise. The O6ers flashed off the plane and into the 70′s to catch up with their group. The rest of the plane landed on runway in current time. LOL

  281. Hammer says:

    I mean the runway the Others built on the little island.

  282. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315315"]In the Bible, Jacob is the great-great-grandfather of Aaron.[/quote]

    So maybe Jack’s grandad, Ray, is the SON of Jacob? I can get on that train. I really don’t think we saw that scene of Jack in the retirement home just because of the shoes.

    : ) P

  283. wallyp says:

    Jack always wakes up in the same spot… if someone was to take his spot on the plane, would they wake up in his spot on the island?

  284. RGS says:

    I haven’t seen last night’s episode yet, but from what I’m reading I’m getting nervous about watching it. But there seems to be some inconsistencies in the posts.

    On Ben working with Widmore…that seems like a JTS moment, if Ben has already shown up to warn Wid, he’d kill his daughter, Wid has already sent mercenaries in to kill Ben. Ben has promised Widmore that he’d never find the island…

    On Ben trying to kill Penny…how does that fit into the whole notion that Ben is actually a good guy? He’s going to deviate from the plan to save the world to avenge a death in cold blood?

    On Ben’s response about “collateral damage” being “who cares [about the other passengers]” that seems to be a bit of a step from “I don’t kill innocent’s Michael” (if those who believe Ben to be good, believe he meant that).

    On the 05 disappearing before other passenger’s eyes…I can handle that IF all those associated with Ajira airways (crew & passengers) are totally and purposefully in on the whole thing, and all flew that specific route knowing something like that could happen. Thus no one would report anything strange.

    On recreating the circumstances of flight 815…despite my last paragraph, this would be the most troubling hardest-to-deal-with fantastical event of the episode. I mean previously there were 48 other survivors, who had notable roles on the island, and did not seemingly die of course correction. It seems like if it is that important to have the minutiae of handcuffs and/or someone needing to be in the bathroom, or (insert other “minor” detail) then it would seem equally important to have some of these fringe character types from the other 40+ 815 survivors.

    It sounds like more questions than answers occurred this week, so next week we’ll get a prestige (great movie btw)?

  285. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="315318"][quote comment="315314"]I think the plane ends up on the island, maybe in a different time. I don’t buy the whole, the O6 disappear off the plane in front of everyone. I believe Frank Lapidus is going back on that island. He was supposed to be there to begin with. So if he flashes off the plane, who is going to fly it? It will surely be doomed then! So there. That is solved! Hee Hee J/K. I am sure people disagree.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Here’s a compromise. The O6ers flashed off the plane and into the 70′s to catch up with their group. The rest of the plane landed on runway in current time. LOL[/quote]

    I think that no one expects to go back to 1970′s, this is a result of Ben spinning the wheel instead of Locke. The plane is jsut supposed to crash, but before that can happen, the group gets flashed into the seventies to be with their group,,, I like it… Lapidus flashes too, so the rest of the plane crashes and becomes the new 2007 losties.

  286. ESB says:

    umm, there are a whole bunch of people (myself included) who don’t think Ben is a good guy…but the point has been argued to death…

    even if he is somehow a good guy, he obviously has no problem with people dying for the ‘greater good’ and he obviously has no problem with revenge…he told Widmore straight up that he was going to kill Penny, so…

  287. DocH says:

    [quote comment="315253"]Don’t remember if this was mentioned, but can a plane that size fly internationally? Shouldn’t they be on an airbus or something?[/quote]
    Short answer yes. They announced the flight at the airport as departing for Honolulu and Guam. They were in a 737-700(+) which can fly the first to HI with two hours of spare fuel, and the second leg to Guam with an hour of fuel to spare.

    Here is my question. Did anyone notice the ACTUAL takeoff airport? I could not tell if it was LAX or Honolulu. If it was LAX, they made it seem like after they just got to altitude is when Frank was discovered at the helm. That means that he would have landed in HI – and hopefully said see ya. If they took off from Hawaii – in the footage they used, that means Frank wasn’t the pilot for the first leg… or he didn’t make the announcements for that first leg.

  288. Steve says:

    OK, unlike most of you, I really didn’t like this episode…while I do appreciate that information is being revealed faster this season, I think it’s getting a little haphazard. All of the dialogue in this episode felt really forced, and focused on revealing information rather than staying true to these characters we’re so invested in at this point. I would like to hear other opinions on this point: Weren’t you expecting a better way of them getting back to the island? Jack was riding in planes right when we saw him off the island, and that was supposed to be a naive way of doing things. Apparently, all he had to do was get on the plane in a mildly similar way to when they crashed (let’s face it, they didn’t exactly re-create the contents of the first plane crash) and boom, they’re back on the island. Locke had to die for that? There was a full cabin of people that didn’t even REMOTELY resemble the first flight, but Locke had to die so there’d be a casket on the plane? I don’t know. This show is so smart and so good, and every detail is paid such attention to in other regards, I feel cheated that such a big thing that we’ve been building up to for so long was completely skimmed over, hoping we’d buy it. Here’s my big question…how is this path back to the island a good solution? Am I missing something, because I hope I am…I love this show, and I want this whole “going back to the island” thing to work…but, at this point, I just don’t get it.

  289. emit says:

    [quote comment="315108"][quote comment="315097"]Anyone catch what book Ben was reading on the plane?
    [/quote]

    I believe it was Ulysses. (Could have been Odyssey)[/quote]
    ===================
    It was James Joyce’s Ulyseses

  290. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315325"]Here is my question. Did anyone notice the ACTUAL takeoff airport? I could not tell if it was LAX or Honolulu. If it was LAX, they made it seem like after they just got to altitude is when Frank was discovered at the helm. That means that he would have landed in HI – and hopefully said see ya. If they took off from Hawaii – in the footage they used, that means Frank wasn’t the pilot for the first leg… or he didn’t make the announcements for that first leg.[/quote]

    It was LAX.

    : ) P

  291. SBT says:

    In the Bible, Jacob is the great-great-grandfather of Aaron.

    So maybe Jack’s grandad, Ray, is the SON of Jacob? I can get on that train. I really don’t think we saw that scene of Jack in the retirement home just because of the shoes.

    : ) P

    Thanks for the Bible reference (I should have known that). Well now the puzzle is fitting together!

  292. ShelbyDee says:

    To Hammer and others who question Ben being on the plane and his ability to get back to the island….. Christian did tell John that he (John) was suppose to move the island, not Ben. In that case, Ben never should have left the island. He needs to go back.

    I think Des may have bargained with Ben for Penny’s life after kicking Ben’s butt. If Des had restrained Ben while fighting, Ben might have agreed to anything in order to get to the plane on time. Then again, what was he more committed to: killing Widmore’s daughter or getting back to the island? Not sure. I just don’t want to believe the writers would kill her off.

    I think Des will get back to the island. Like some other posters, I think he has to go by boat. It will be interesting to see how he shows up (and if he’s drunk!).

    I also think the falling out b/t Ben and Sayid was about killing Penny. I think Ben may have sent Sayid to take her out and Sayid refused.

    On Walt not being there: although no one said it in any episode, I’ve assumed he was “released” by the island. He didn’t escape and wasn’t rescued so I don’t think his departure caused a tilt with the island’s balance. He doesn’t need to return.

    This is really getting to be a lot of fun!!

  293. intolost says:

    Yes, they would’ve gone through Honolulu to Guam. Also, I don’t think I saw any native Chamorros from Guam as extras in the airport scene. They’re would’ve been many of them sitting there waiting for the plane!

  294. vavila says:

    [quote comment="315326"]OK, unlike most of you, I really didn’t like this episode…while I do appreciate that information is being revealed faster this season, I think it’s getting a little haphazard. All of the dialogue in this episode felt really forced, and focused on revealing information rather than staying true to these characters we’re so invested in at this point. I would like to hear other opinions on this point: Weren’t you expecting a better way of them getting back to the island? Jack was riding in planes right when we saw him off the island, and that was supposed to be a naive way of doing things. Apparently, all he had to do was get on the plane in a mildly similar way to when they crashed (let’s face it, they didn’t exactly re-create the contents of the first plane crash) and boom, they’re back on the island. Locke had to die for that? There was a full cabin of people that didn’t even REMOTELY resemble the first flight, but Locke had to die so there’d be a casket on the plane? I don’t know. This show is so smart and so good, and every detail is paid such attention to in other regards, I feel cheated that such a big thing that we’ve been building up to for so long was completely skimmed over, hoping we’d buy it. Here’s my big question…how is this path back to the island a good solution? Am I missing something, because I hope I am…I love this show, and I want this whole “going back to the island” thing to work…but, at this point, I just don’t get it.[/quote]


    I somewhat agree with you, it was rushed but good nevertheless :) Go to wiki to read up more on this episode. I agree that we have a lot left to find with regards to this travel back to the island – why exactly did John had to ‘die’ (my theory is that he’s not dead but he has proven himself), what exactly did John and Ben do convince O6ers to get back to the island, why Hurley and Sayid ended on the plane… Don’t worry i think we’ll find out more eventually :)

  295. emit says:

    [quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?

  296. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="315287"]

    1.Jack was in seat 8C, does anyone know what seats everyone else were in?

    3.I took a closer look at the Dharma Logo on Jins uniform. It’s partially hidden but it almost looks like a star of some sort. Someone check it out and let me know what you think.

    4. I heard that next weeks ep will run 6 minutes over. Those of you recording be aware[/quote]
    *****************************************************

    Has anyone looked into my questions 1 and 3 yet? I keep looking at Jin’s logo and want some other guesses and help.

  297. i need answers says:

    [quote comment="315266"][quote comment="315046"][quote comment="315042"]Sayid did not want to go with ben i bet.[/quote]
    That maybe OR Des beat his butt because he was trying to kill Penny…..loose ends with an ‘old friend’.[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    I’ll speculate a bit further and say that Ben went to go kill Penny — and did.

    Now we know why Ben gave a funny look when he saw Des — he knew how to find Penny.[/quote]
    Exactly…Ben called from the Marina that he killed penny in….Des will be arriving on the Island by boat..again

  298. Katie says:

    This was, in my opinion, one of the worst episodes so far and I have seen every episode. It didn’t tell us much of anything and the story line was kinda boring. Whoo hoo… the Oceanic Six crashed on another plane to get back to the island. I agree with what Steve said in his post. This episode just left more questions… and there are SO MANY questions at this point, I don’t believe there is any way for the show to answer even a large portion of them before its off the air… unless its rushed.

    Additionally, did anyone else feel that there were WAY TOO MANY COMMERCIALS?! I’m curious, were there more than 30 minutes of program time? And that said, were more than 20 of them more than just characters stalling (i.e. Jack starring at the note from Locke, we got the point when he put it in the casket… he didn’t want to open it… now lets ponder on that for 5 more minutes)?

    I love Lost… and I expect way more from it. Ratings are down (unfortunate, but expected) and I hope they don’t just skim over the last 14 episodes.

  299. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.

  300. emit says:

    [quote comment="315286"]More thoughts about the plane “crash”:

    It may still be possible that the plane crashed on the island. Yes, we saw no evidence of it, no wreckage on the island, but the plane crashed in 2007/2008. When we see Jack, Hurley and Kate back on the island it’s the 70′s or 80′s. So if the plane itself doesn’t time travel, there’d be no wreckage on the island at the time we saw it.

    On the other hand, if there were no crash, what is the reaction of the others on the plane – 5 (or more) passengers (and 5 of the O6!) just disappeared right in front of our eyes. How does that story get explained to the world (or covered up)?[/quote]

    ===============================
    I believe the guitar is the element that tells us that the plane did crashed since lock and charlie find the guitar case in season 1, nearby the place where jack finds the coffin (he thought it was his fathers, might it be that it was John’s coffin all the time???????.

  301. LizS says:

    [quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz

  302. LizS says:

    [quote comment="315126"][quote comment="315086"]I think Kate gave Aaron to the couple in LA that the psychic said is supposed to raise him.[/quote]
    - – - -
    How about. Kate dropped Aaron with Claire’s mom and she gave her the COMPLETE details about what happened. That was her self-imposed penance, her leap-of-faith, to put her life of lies behind her.
    (or the boy is with voodoo Math priestess Hawking… grannies got cash & and she needs to replace her boy Daniel)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I thought the psychic really wanted Aaron to be with Claire, and just said that about the couple to get her to go on that plane.

    ALSO–maybe little Aaron is on that plane! in the back with a caretaker. You think Ben would have left that one to chance? I can see him lying to Kate about making a deal for Aaron’s safety to get HER on the plane, but then…well, doing a Ben.

    –Liz

  303. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]

    Dan is probably not her REAL son.

  304. pete says:

    if the survivors infiltrate the dharma initiative will they be killed in the purge or are they going to stop it

  305. LizS says:

    [quote comment="315258"]another question – did anyone catch when Ben said, “We’re all convinced sooner or later, John.” He was saying this to Jack. Coincidence?[/quote]
    Oh, good! Someone else caught that!!! What does it mean? It has to be deliberate, but it was real quick and smooth. John sacrifices a la Baptist? setting up Jack for an even bigger sacrifice? Or implying Jack has now become the Man of Faith (as someone posed last week’s comments)???

    Cheers, Liz

  306. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="315344"]if the survivors infiltrate the dharma initiative will they be killed in the purge or are they going to stop it[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Or are they going to start it?

  307. emit says:

    [quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    =================
    charlies guitar wasnt on the plane he tells this himself while talking to lock on episode “Rabbit Hole” of the first season

  308. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Doesn’t it seem obvious now that Charlie appeared to Hugo and convinced him to get on the plane?

  309. LizS says:

    [quote comment="315326"]OK, unlike most of you, I really didn’t like this episode…while I do appreciate that information is being revealed faster this season, I think it’s getting a little haphazard. All of the dialogue in this episode felt really forced, and focused on revealing information rather than staying true to these characters we’re so invested in at this point. I would like to hear other opinions on this point: Weren’t you expecting a better way of them getting back to the island? Jack was riding in planes right when we saw him off the island, and that was supposed to be a naive way of doing things. Apparently, all he had to do was get on the plane in a mildly similar way to when they crashed (let’s face it, they didn’t exactly re-create the contents of the first plane crash) and boom, they’re back on the island. Locke had to die for that? There was a full cabin of people that didn’t even REMOTELY resemble the first flight, but Locke had to die so there’d be a casket on the plane? I don’t know. This show is so smart and so good, and every detail is paid such attention to in other regards, I feel cheated that such a big thing that we’ve been building up to for so long was completely skimmed over, hoping we’d buy it. Here’s my big question…how is this path back to the island a good solution? Am I missing something, because I hope I am…I love this show, and I want this whole “going back to the island” thing to work…but, at this point, I just don’t get it.[/quote]
    I hear what you’re saying, Steve–there’s a lack of drama to these sequences of them going back, because, well, we know they have to for the story to continue. ho-hum, go back already!

    I kinda hoped there would be more pivotal revelations to the off island stories to make more sense of what they needed to gain by leaving–in order to bring something IMPORTANT to the end game they have to play out back on the Island.

    Now, I just get the sense of, well, they left, because they didn’t like Island Life, but, well, the story has to unfold on the Island, so, well, I guess it was pointless to make them leave, let’s, um, uh, get them back!!!

    I’m not feeling the Big Point to this whole sequence.

    Hawking’s revelations about the multiple electro-mag points around the world, that’s an interesting thing, and a lot more could have been made of it–revving up the engines of suspense and risk.

    It all feels kinda rushed (and yet too S L O W, because the suspense of it dried up) and that there was a potential for some key things to happen, but they didn’t.

    And has Jack taken stupid pills, or what? Did he ask Hawking any of the Qs I wanted him to? Like, What am I supposed to do on this Island? Why?

    Ben said, you have to go back, and Locke said, you have to go back, and suddenly that’s good enough for Jack. Why no longer matters. Since he’s pretty much screwed up his chance at a normal life back stateside, and he realizes, well, my life was in danger back on the Island, but I was less bored. And less stupid. So, what the heck, Kate keeps screwing me over, so, my life sucks anyway, maybe I can save the world. Or something.

    So, man of Faith he may have become, but he’s not the Jack I love.

    Cheers, Liz

  310. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="315347"][quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    =================
    charlies guitar wasnt on the plane he tells this himself while talking to lock on episode “Rabbit Hole” of the first season[/quote]
    ___________________

    He was not allowes to take it with him on the plane as a carry on, it WAS on the plane in cargo.

  311. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315347"][quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    =================
    charlies guitar wasnt on the plane he tells this himself while talking to lock on episode “Rabbit Hole” of the first season[/quote]
    ______
    I don’t really know WHAT he says, but on my Myspace, I have various videos and scenes that show Charlie stuffing his guitar into a locker on the plane.

  312. Mia says:

    I don’t know if this was discussed before but any thoughts about Penny being on the island in the 70s? I recall it being mentioned that Charles Widmore has been looking for the island for ~20 years. If he found it in 2004, then that would mean he got off the island in ~1984. Therefore he could have been living on the island from ~1954 to ~1984. That would put Penny on the island during that time (since she is obviously older than 20). Does this make sense? Of course Widmore could have been able to leave the island at that time too and have Penny off the island. Maybe we’ll see a young Penny soon as an Other??? Possibly being born?

  313. emit says:

    [quote comment="315348"][quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Doesn’t it seem obvious now that Charlie appeared to Hugo and convinced him to get on the plane?[/quote]

    ============

    Yes it seems the most plausible way Hurley was informed or my other guess is Lock told Hurley I dont know, still I incline more for Charlie telling him.

  314. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315347"]charlies guitar wasnt on the plane he tells this himself while talking to lock on episode “Rabbit Hole” of the first season[/quote]

    There wasn’t an episode called “Rabbit Hole” but there was one called “White Rabbit” (S1E5).

    However, Charlie said he had to CHECK his guitar, not that it wasn’t on the plane. From the Episode “House of the Rising Sun” (S1E6):

    CHARLIE: And guitar — on a couple of tracks. You really heard of us?

    LOCKE: Hey, just because I’m over 40 doesn’t mean I’m deaf. I have both your albums. Although, I thought that your self-titled debut was a much stronger effort than Oil Change. It’s a shame what happened to the band. How long since you played?

    CHARLIE: My guitar? Uh, 8 days, 11 hours, give or take.

    LOCKE: You miss it? [Charlie nods] Well, a lot of wreckage. It might still turn up.

    CHARLIE: Undamaged? Still playable? I don’t think so. I mean, I wish, but there was this bloke at the counter made me check it in.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  315. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315351"][quote comment="315347"][quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    =================
    charlies guitar wasnt on the plane he tells this himself while talking to lock on episode “Rabbit Hole” of the first season[/quote]
    ___________________

    He was not allowes to take it with him on the plane as a carry on, it WAS on the plane in cargo.[/quote]

    _________________
    Here is the exact lines….

    CHARLIE: My guitar? Uh, 8 days, 11 hours, give or take.

    LOCKE: You miss it? [Charlie nods] Well, a lot of wreckage. It might still turn up.

    CHARLIE: Undamaged? Still playable? I don’t think so. I mean, I wish, but there was this bloke at the counter made me check it in.

    LOCKE: No.

    CHARLIE: Yeah. There wasn’t enough room in the cabin, fascist.

    LOCKE: You’ll see it again.

    CHARLIE: Oh yeah? What makes you say that?

    LOCKE: Because I have faith, Charlie.

    From “House of the Rising Sun”

  316. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315352"][quote comment="315347"][quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    =================
    charlies guitar wasnt on the plane he tells this himself while talking to lock on episode “Rabbit Hole” of the first season[/quote]
    ______
    I don’t really know WHAT he says, but on my Myspace, I have various videos and scenes that show Charlie stuffing his guitar into a locker on the plane.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    This should clear it up, Charlie himself knows it was on his flight, just not in the cabin:

    transcript from lostpedia

    LOCKE: You miss it? [Charlie nods] Well, a lot of wreckage. It might still turn up.

    CHARLIE: Undamaged? Still playable? I don’t think so. I mean, I wish, but there was this bloke at the counter made me check it in.

    LOCKE: No.

    CHARLIE: Yeah. There wasn’t enough room in the cabin, fascist.

  317. Hammer says:

    Beat me to it Tasha.

  318. LizS says:

    Back to Steve–
    So yes, what IS the point of Locke having to die? It has to be more than a plot contrivance to get the O6 back. HAS to be, or it will be beyond disappointing. I’m hopeful it will be, but I guess we’ll see next week.

    Cheers, Liz

  319. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315353"]I don’t know if this was discussed before but any thoughts about Penny being on the island in the 70s? I recall it being mentioned that Charles Widmore has been looking for the island for ~20 years. If he found it in 2004, then that would mean he got off the island in ~1984. Therefore he could have been living on the island from ~1954 to ~1984. That would put Penny on the island during that time (since she is obviously older than 20). Does this make sense? Of course Widmore could have been able to leave the island at that time too and have Penny off the island. Maybe we’ll see a young Penny soon as an Other??? Possibly being born?[/quote]

    Definitely possible.

    : ) P

  320. Tasha says:

    Sorry PJ! I was typing that at the same time!!

  321. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315361"]Sorry PJ! I was typing that at the same time!![/quote]
    +++++++++
    Hello, my name is Hammer…nice to meet you. LOL.

  322. PJSander says:

    Tasha, Hammer – we’re all working hard together! Hey Hammer, your post was *316* – guess that means you were meant to be on the Ajira Airways flight, too! LOL

    : ) P

  323. duke says:

    [quote comment="315158"]There definitely seemed to be importance to having similar situations to the original flight from Australia.

    On that original flight…..
    Jack was bringing his fathers body home
    Kate was arrested and with a US Marshall
    Jin was pregnant and trying to escape from her marriage with Jin – but changes her mind and does not leave him
    Hurley had gone to Australia to try to understand the numbers.
    I have forgotten why Sayid was on the flight from Australia

    My theory is that in this return flight, since some of the folks lifes have changed – another of the Oceanic 6 “filled in for the changes”

    For example:
    Sayid on the plane as a captured fugitive – a la Kate
    Kate (pregnant from her evening with Jack) traveling with the father of the baby – a la Sun
    Jack fulfilled the same role both times.
    Still trying to figure out Sun, Sayid, Hurley – any thoughts?

    Like several of you have mentioned, I think the woman Marshall and mystery man are plants from Widmore or Ben.

    Also think Ben was not suppose to get back to the island via the flight. In past seasons, we have seen him, Richard Alpert, and other “others” move back and forth from the island.

    There must be other ways to get back – and his being on the plane makes me suspicious.[/quote]
    Sun got pregnant on the island not before hand.

  324. LostMom says:

    [quote comment="315359"]Back to Steve–
    So yes, what IS the point of Locke having to die? It has to be more than a plot contrivance to get the O6 back. HAS to be, or it will be beyond disappointing. I’m hopeful it will be, but I guess we’ll see next week.

    Cheers, Liz[/quote]

    Okay…so I’ve only commented on here a couple of times, but what if this goes back to the Bible verse, John 3:16? Locke has to die (as a “son” of Jacob) in order for the rest of the islanders and the O6 to live? Some kind of connection to that?

  325. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315362"][quote comment="315361"]Sorry PJ! I was typing that at the same time!![/quote]
    +++++++++
    Hello, my name is Hammer…nice to meet you. LOL.[/quote]

    _______
    I didn’t see that! I think we were all posting at the same time!

  326. sector7 says:

    LizS wrote: So, man of Faith he may have become, but he’s not the Jack I love.
    ______________________________________
    Liz, I feel you on all points. However, the creators are merely storytellers and this is a tv show. I think we have been spoiled by great work up to this point and just expect too much. Our expectations for what’s to come are so high that they can never be met.

  327. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315359"]Back to Steve–
    So yes, what IS the point of Locke having to die? It has to be more than a plot contrivance to get the O6 back. HAS to be, or it will be beyond disappointing. I’m hopeful it will be, but I guess we’ll see next week.

    Cheers, Liz[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Okay, JMO, but I thought it was kind of clear. Locke had to sacrifice himself to be he proxy for Christian so that Jack could go back under similar circumstances. Locke is the one that was chosen to do this because he is the ONLY one who has faith.

    I think we will see that if Ben suceeded in killing Penny that Des will be going back to the island for the same reason as the first time….his love for Penny.

  328. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315363"]Tasha, Hammer – we’re all working hard together! Hey Hammer, your post was *316* – guess that means you were meant to be on the Ajira Airways flight, too! LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Awesome you two!!!

    I was on the plane, didn’t you notice the short funny lookin’ dude in the back?

  329. joke says:

    [quote comment="315112"][quote comment="315072"]I think there may have been another Widmore plant on Ajira airways. The Middle-Earstern guy sitting next to Hurley.[/quote]
    I would agree and also add that the “agent” escorting Said could also be a plant.[/quote]

    why would sayid be extrodited to guam??

  330. JohnCML says:

    [quote comment="315354"][quote comment="315348"][quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Doesn’t it seem obvious now that Charlie appeared to Hugo and convinced him to get on the plane?[/quote]

    ============

    Yes it seems the most plausible way Hurley was informed or my other guess is Lock told Hurley I dont know, still I incline more for Charlie telling him.[/quote]

    Problem is, that is not the same kind of guitar case as Charlie had in S1. Charlie was carrying an Ovation half round in a hard shell case. Hurley has a standard pressboard case for a flat backed guitar. See pics from S1E6 House of the rising sun.

  331. duke says:

    Desmond and Penny are Adam and Eve from the caves. Hawking very adamant about Desmond the first time we saw her and again last night. He was supposed to go through this struggle to feel like he “deserved” Penny’s love. Like Hawking said the island isn’t done with him yet.

  332. LizS says:

    [quote comment="315368"][quote comment="315359"]Back to Steve–
    So yes, what IS the point of Locke having to die? It has to be more than a plot contrivance to get the O6 back. HAS to be, or it will be beyond disappointing. I’m hopeful it will be, but I guess we’ll see next week.

    Cheers, Liz[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Okay, JMO, but I thought it was kind of clear. Locke had to sacrifice himself to be he proxy for Christian so that Jack could go back under similar circumstances. Locke is the one that was chosen to do this because he is the ONLY one who has faith.

    I think we will see that if Ben suceeded in killing Penny that Des will be going back to the island for the same reason as the first time….his love for Penny.[/quote]
    Yes, but that, to me, is not BIG enough. From a plot standpoint, Why make everyone leave? What did they gain by leaving? Just knowledge that they had to go back? Well, heck, we could have told them that! ; )

    So now, John Locke, with blind faith, which, ok, granted, satisfies him and fulfills him, it’s the life path he’s chosen, has to die to get them to go back.

    Yeah, drama and all, but, well, not quite…I dunno, maybe I’m in a sour mood or something, but it’s just not working so good for me today.

    I demand more from my off-island hours!!!

  333. emit says:

    Ok this is what i see:

    Oceanic 815 crashed when Christian Sheppard died.
    Ajira 316 crashed when John Lock died.

    The flashes mean time travel.
    When the hatch exploded or imploded there was a flash.

    From that point on we don’t know when or where the island is. (Maybe we could tell by when Penny found it, or the freighter, or Daniel).

    What we know is that after the flash, Christian Sheppard appears to be in the cabin, able to been seen by Claire, Lock, etc. He gains certain powers for being dead in his timeline, but his spirit on the island.

    When John Lock dies in the realword, but is returned to the island he will become the new Jacob persona and be able to help the Losties to change in the island at some point if the island travels to any point where his dead body is on the island, but he is alive in the real world.

  334. duke says:

    leading to my theory that Charlie, programmed the looking glass signal block

  335. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315368"][quote comment="315359"]Back to Steve–
    So yes, what IS the point of Locke having to die? It has to be more than a plot contrivance to get the O6 back. HAS to be, or it will be beyond disappointing. I’m hopeful it will be, but I guess we’ll see next week.

    Cheers, Liz[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Okay, JMO, but I thought it was kind of clear. Locke had to sacrifice himself to be he proxy for Christian so that Jack could go back under similar circumstances. Locke is the one that was chosen to do this because he is the ONLY one who has faith.

    I think we will see that if Ben suceeded in killing Penny that Des will be going back to the island for the same reason as the first time….his love for Penny.[/quote]

    ______________
    Speaking of Des going back to the island….lately the characters change their minds with the snap of fingers. I mean for all we know, Des might just wake up one day and say “This is what he is supposed to do!”
    He might wake up with a memory or something!

  336. ESB says:

    hmm, so i’m going to venture a guess…and if i’m wrong so be it, because i don’t really mind being wrong about this show…

    i’m going to say that Hurley brought the guitar case along as sort of a tribute to Charlie and that there isn’t even a guitar in it…what’s in it you ask? no clue but i’m going on record as saying it’s not a guitar…

    as for Charlie’s guitar, it was, as has already been stated, in the cargo hold of 815, and it his guitar that is up on the cliff when Locke tells him to look up and that he plays throughout season 1…NOT some guitar Hurley drops/loses from the 316 flight…

  337. duke says:

    [quote comment="315245"]I’m trying to figure out part of the timeline here (and I know we’ll probably get a lot of this filled in next week)

    When we see Jin, it’s most likely in the ’70′s. And because he’s wearing a Dharma unifor, he’s got a gun, he’s driving the van, and he’s out by himself, I’m assuming he’s not new to DI – it seems like someone with that much apparent responsibility would have had to have been part of the DI for a while.

    Similarly, at the beginning of the season premiere, when we saw Daniel working at the construction of the Orchid Station, the construction foreman seemed comfortable in saying to Daniel that Dr. Chang and the time travel idea were crazy.

    I’m assuming those two scenes are taking place at the same general time, and that time is where Daniel, Jin, Sawyer, etc all ended up after Locke turned the FDW.

    Given all that, I’d say a considerable amount of time has passed in the lives of Daniel, Jin, Sawyer, etc between the time Locke turned the FDW and the time Jin finds Jack, Kate and Hurley.

    Like months, or even years, maybe even the full 3 years that the O6 have been away, so that Daniel and Jin have integrated into the DI. Right?

    So, then, how far into the future did Locke travel when he turned the FDW? Wouldn’t he have had to have been back in the US for the same amount of time Daniel and Jin have been part of the DI?[/quote]
    I think that he was in the Us for a couple of years but the island time is completely different. With Juliet knowing so much about the island and it’s story then she probably knew about Dharma and how infiltrate them.

  338. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315377"]______________
    Speaking of Des going back to the island….lately the characters change their minds with the snap of fingers. I mean for all we know, Des might just wake up one day and say “This is what he is supposed to do!”
    He might wake up with a memory or something![/quote]
    +++++++++++
    IMO, they didn’t change their minds with a snap. Locke tried to convince them by telling them to have faith, that they were supposed to go back. Ben uses MUCH more convincing methods. Once Ben got to them….

  339. LostMom says:

    One more thought…looking more into the Biblical reference stuff (it interests me)…Benjamin and Joseph were the two sons of Jacob from his wife Rachel, who died giving birth to Benjamin. Joseph was the favored son of Jacob who rose to become the highest official of the Pharoh, saving the nation from the famine that was prophesied. When Jacob’s family came back to Egypt, Joseph was the one who kept them alive. Just interesting information…

  340. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315383"]One more thought…looking more into the Biblical reference stuff (it interests me)…Benjamin and Joseph were the two sons of Jacob from his wife Rachel, who died giving birth to Benjamin. Joseph was the favored son of Jacob who rose to become the highest official of the Pharoh, saving the nation from the famine that was prophesied. When Jacob’s family came back to Egypt, Joseph was the one who kept them alive. Just interesting information…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Just so you don’t feel ignored. This may be new for some of the newbies, but a rehash for the vets. If you want more, lostpedia.com has this covered well.

  341. duke says:

    [quote comment="315279"][quote comment="315278"]Some Numbers:

    Date on photo of island – 9/23/54
    Flight left from gate 15
    Jack was in row 8[/quote]

    Co-incidentally, the date is FIFTY YEARS (less one day) before the date of the Oceanic crash.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Great catch. Also with the time differences for different parts of the world it took off on 9/23 but crashed or whatever on the 24th like Oceanic 815. Haven’t done the research on it but it is plausible depending on the time flight left and timezones to where it was going.

  342. duke says:

    [quote comment="315279"][quote comment="315278"]Some Numbers:

    Date on photo of island – 9/23/54
    Flight left from gate 15
    Jack was in row 8[/quote]

    Co-incidentally, the date is FIFTY YEARS (less one day) before the date of the Oceanic crash.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Great catch. Also with the time differences for different parts of the world it took off on 9/23 but crashed or whatever on the 24th like Oceanic 815. Haven’t done the research on it but it is plausible depending on the time flight left and timezones to where it was going.

  343. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315381"][quote comment="315377"]______________
    Speaking of Des going back to the island….lately the characters change their minds with the snap of fingers. I mean for all we know, Des might just wake up one day and say “This is what he is supposed to do!”
    He might wake up with a memory or something![/quote]
    +++++++++++
    IMO, they didn’t change their minds with a snap. Locke tried to convince them by telling them to have faith, that they were supposed to go back. Ben uses MUCH more convincing methods. Once Ben got to them….[/quote]

    ______
    So what do you think about some of them changing their minds in the last 36 hours before the flight? When Kate went stomping off she sure didn’t look like she was going back to that island. We don’t quite know what Sayid and Hurley are doing on the plane. My guess is Sayid got arrested and it’s his destiny to go back, just like all of them. So in Des’s case, I don’t think something BAD needs to necessarily happen. Fate will work it’s way in. Maybe it will end up being Penny’s decision to go back. Maybe the sail boat will end up there.

    If Hawkings knows the island isn’t done with him yet, she would know why. She knew why he went the first time. Now I know she believes that the universe decides are fate blah blah blah, but if she knows that Ben is going to go kill Penny or the baby and just not say anything, then I think she is Evil too.

    Plus what does all this say about everyone’s theory about Dan and Penny being half bro and sis. I would think she is Penny’s mom and baby charlie her grandchild possibly, so just letting ben go do away with one of them would be kind of odd.

    Dangit! That just confused me so I think ya’ll will be confused reading it. I can’t even explain this stuff right!

  344. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315388"]
    So what do you think about some of them changing their minds in the last 36 hours before the flight? [/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Well, I hope they show it, but I THINK that Ben spent that 36 hours kicking ass and taking names to get things done by the deadline…and he certainly looked like it. :)

  345. Frank says:

    So many excellent comments and points.
    Like many, I thought the episode left much to be desired, though I’ll give it time to play out a little further. Maybe coming episodes will “thicken” 316.

    A couple other comments:
    1) Eloise specifically said ‘the island is constantly moving.’ That’s why it’s so hard to find. Does this mean the island is moving regardless of the wheel being turned? What if entering the numbers and pressing the button actually moved the island?
    2) How come it had to be “this flight” – 316? remember season 3 finale when Ben met Jack at the funeral home and said ‘I heard you’ve been flying back and forth across the pacific hoping for the plane to crash – dark Jack, very dark’ If Eloise is correct that windows open to access the island, then how come with all the flights Jack was taking he didn’t stumble across an open window?

    I found it very odd that Eloise said that everything had to be as close to original crash as possible.

    As others have stated, Desmond is one of the key characters on the show so he is far from done. Just a few weeks back, Faraday: ‘because you’re special Desmond. The rules don’t apply to you.’

    Is Jack just stupid? Everything is about his father and he doesn’t realize this? Even Eloise said something like ‘come on Jack.’

  346. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315390"]2) How come it had to be “this flight” – 316? remember season 3 finale when Ben met Jack at the funeral home and said ‘I heard you’ve been flying back and forth across the pacific hoping for the plane to crash – dark Jack, very dark’ If Eloise is correct that windows open to access the island, then how come with all the flights Jack was taking he didn’t stumble across an open window?
    [/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    I’ll stab at this one. He didn’t have his father or a proxy (dead Locke w/shoes) or the rest of his group. It was ‘their’ window as I am sticking with the plane didn’t crash, it was a ‘flash’ that took them.

  347. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315326"]OK, unlike most of you, I really didn’t like this episode…while I do appreciate that information is being revealed faster this season, I think it’s getting a little haphazard. All of the dialogue in this episode felt really forced, and focused on revealing information rather than staying true to these characters we’re so invested in at this point. I would like to hear other opinions on this point: Weren’t you expecting a better way of them getting back to the island? Jack was riding in planes right when we saw him off the island, and that was supposed to be a naive way of doing things. Apparently, all he had to do was get on the plane in a mildly similar way to when they crashed (let’s face it, they didn’t exactly re-create the contents of the first plane crash) and boom, they’re back on the island. Locke had to die for that? There was a full cabin of people that didn’t even REMOTELY resemble the first flight, but Locke had to die so there’d be a casket on the plane? I don’t know. This show is so smart and so good, and every detail is paid such attention to in other regards, I feel cheated that such a big thing that we’ve been building up to for so long was completely skimmed over, hoping we’d buy it. Here’s my big question…how is this path back to the island a good solution? Am I missing something, because I hope I am…I love this show, and I want this whole “going back to the island” thing to work…but, at this point, I just don’t get it.[/quote]

    I know I’m in the minority, but I’m with you on this one. We received some good information, but the return trip was lame. Especially with the flash. I think the whole idea of jumping on a plane that just happens to be on the path through one of the vortices is absurd. I know there is only 20 plus hours of programming left, but I think they could have done a better job with showing some new way (to us viewers)or old way (however Locke and Mr. Friendly or Guyliner) gets to and from the island. Also, they continue to raise plenty of questions which I’m not sure they’ll have time to answer, unless they have someone blurt it all out like Ms. Hawking.

  348. Timeline says:

    1954 – Widmore is an Other on the Island
    Adam and Eve die about this time?
    (based on Jack’s observation)

    1956 – Locke born off-island

    1960s – Alpert tests Locke as a child
    Ben born off-island

    1970s – Ben comes to island
    Penny born on island?
    Charlotte born on island?
    *Losties unite*

    1984? – Widmore leaves island
    (been searching for island for about 20 years?)

    1988 – Rousseau arrives on island
    Alex is born

    1992 – The purge
    Ben leads the Others

    1994 – Penny meets Des off island
    Walt is born

    1996 – Des leaps to this year and
    1) Talks with Widmore after he purchases journal
    2) Finds Penny and tells her about the phone call
    3) Visits Faraday at Oxford and Faraday succeeds in rat experiment

    2001/2002 – Libby gives Des boat
    Jack meets Des at the stadium
    Des lands on island
    Juliet arrives on island?

    2004 – Oceanic Plane crashes
    Widmore Finds island
    O6 leave island
    *Sawyer and gang travel to the 70s*

    2005 – Ben lands in Tunisia and later finds
    out O6 left island too; visits Sayid

    2007 – Des visits Widmore to get Faraday’s
    mothers address
    *Jack and gang go back to island (to the 70s?)*

  349. Lostie82 says:

    [quote comment="315345"][quote comment="315258"]another question – did anyone catch when Ben said, “We’re all convinced sooner or later, John.” He was saying this to Jack. Coincidence?[/quote]
    Oh, good! Someone else caught that!!! What does it mean? It has to be deliberate, but it was real quick and smooth. John sacrifices a la Baptist? setting up Jack for an even bigger sacrifice? Or implying Jack has now become the Man of Faith (as someone posed last week’s comments)???

    Cheers, Liz[/quote]

    i got the video here.. it says “jack”
    i played it over and over..

    wait! lemme play it again…

    now i’m confused.. it did sounded like “john”..

  350. TechLost says:

    This is really late and might have been addressed but some1 asked how hurley had that kind of money to be able to purchase the 78 tickets. He gave the 150 mil to his parents but Oceanic gave all the oceanic 6 a huge settlement. Sun said she bought a controlling amount of shares in her fathers company so for her to able to do that the settlement oceanic paid had to be anywhere from 5-10 million.

  351. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315080"][quote comment="315074"][quote comment="315068"]

    But Ben was born on the island… and Charlotte isn’t older than Ben…[/quote]
    Ben was not born on the island.[/quote]

    ===========
    Yes, he was…I remember in an episode… his father was drinking on his birthday and said basically oh yeah, happy birthday, hard to celebrate on the day you killed your mother…. ben’s dad worked for Dharma and bens mom got pregnant there, in childbirth she died, and Ben grew up with the father who reminded him constantly that he was the one who killed his mother… gee.. wonder why he’s so messed up and eventually killed almost everyone at Dharma, including his father…[/quote]//////////////////////////////
    ben was born at the side of the road in portland, he told sawyer he had been on the island all his life.

  352. ESB says:

    okay, so…just a thought…

    IF it turns out that Ben has gone to the marina/dock and killed Penny and/or Charlie and/or Desmond…can we FINALLY officially put to the rest the notion that Ben is a good guy?? haha ;)

  353. ESB says:

    Ben was not born on the island…he came to the island with his father when he was what appeared to be maybe ten or eleven…exact info is probably on Lostpedia…;)

  354. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315400"]
    ben was born at the side of the road in portland, he told sawyer he had been on the island all his life.[/quote]

    See posts 85 and 98.

  355. emit says:

    [quote comment="315356"][quote comment="315351"][quote comment="315347"][quote comment="315339"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    _____
    Charlie’s guitar was on the plane.[/quote]
    =================
    charlies guitar wasnt on the plane he tells this himself while talking to lock on episode “Rabbit Hole” of the first season[/quote]
    ___________________

    He was not allowes to take it with him on the plane as a carry on, it WAS on the plane in cargo.[/quote]

    _________________
    Here is the exact lines….

    CHARLIE: My guitar? Uh, 8 days, 11 hours, give or take.

    LOCKE: You miss it? [Charlie nods] Well, a lot of wreckage. It might still turn up.

    CHARLIE: Undamaged? Still playable? I don’t think so. I mean, I wish, but there was this bloke at the counter made me check it in.

    LOCKE: No.

    CHARLIE: Yeah. There wasn’t enough room in the cabin, fascist.

    LOCKE: You’ll see it again.

    CHARLIE: Oh yeah? What makes you say that?

    LOCKE: Because I have faith, Charlie.

    From “House of the Rising Sun”[/quote]

    ===============

    thanks for the transcript, had it wrong in my head

  356. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315309"]
    Hopefully we will find out how long John was Jeremey. I think that will directly confirm how long the skippers were in the 70′s.[/quote]
    Not sure I follow you on this one. When Ben moved the wheel he jumped 10 months into the future as confirmed by D & C. I think Locke would also have to experience some kind of time-travel when turning the wheel. I am not sure Locke’s timeline would be the same as those left on the island when he moved it.

    As Toeknee stated ( Comment 217 ), Jin was fairly embedded in Dharma, meaning it didn’t happen overnight. They were in the Dharma Days for awhile, maybe as long as Locke was off the island or maybe not. I am wondering how much of the “infiltrating Dharma” they are gonna show us?

  357. Hammer says:

    Important or not?

    JACK: You packed a bag?

    RAY: Of course I did. One of these times, I’m actually gonna get away. They won’t ever find me either.

    We’ve heard that kind of talk before….more proof that he’s been on the island.

  358. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315380"]
    I think that he was in the Us for a couple of years but the island time is completely different. With Juliet knowing so much about the island and it’s story then she probably knew about Dharma and how infiltrate them.[/quote]
    I would have to disagree that Locke was back home for a couple of years. In last year’s finale Jack said Locke came to see him “about a month ago”. Now, aybe it took some time for Locke to wheel himself ( he must be paralyzed again ) to L.A. and get in touch with Jack, but I doubt it took too long. Locke seemed very eager in trying to get back and help the O6 return. I imagine he got right to work but I could be wrong.

  359. intolost says:

    best line: Frank: “We’re not going to Guam, are we?”

  360. Hammer says:

    My favorite line:

    JACK: Wherever you are, John… you must be laughing your ass off that I’m actually doing this.

  361. reba83 says:

    what is the loose end Benjamin Linus had to tie up? does this have anything to do with the cuts on his face.

  362. Bobola says:

    Why did Jack have such a crappy painting on wall of his Apt.?
    I hate Modern paintings where the face is just this anonymous wash…a sign of a third rate artist.
    Contrasts strongly with the painting of Doubting Thomas…a painting that is actually about something…although in an old style.

    Weird that Jack would also not read John’s note…
    might be important??? YA think?
    He’s just always going to an arrogant fool.
    And why does Kate just jump in bed with Jack again?
    “I lost my baby…so let’s fuck…?”

    Damn Hurley; splashing around like a 12 year old sissy. He certainly has enough blubber to float!
    I hope he gets his ass smoked soon; tired of his antics.

    What didn’t make sense;
    Sun’s about to shoot Ben…and then chills out before she gets any sort of proof Jin is alive as Ben advertised…hunh?

    Looks like Ben got worked over good…like he was beaten up to get information out of him.

  363. Rooney says:

    GOD! I love this show. I’m probably as bad as any of you because I will watch the episodes at least three times before I’m satisfied. The pendulum kinda made me mad though. You could see it swinging in circles and shaking as though someone just pushed it. If you’ve ever seen a real one you know how they work and how straight they are. The episode was SO AWESOME though. I’m just waiting for Shannon and Boone.

  364. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315420"]
    What didn’t make sense;
    Sun’s about to shoot Ben…and then chills out before she gets any sort of proof Jin is alive as Ben advertised…hunh?
    [/quote]
    Yeah, and then Ben says we have to go see someone, implying that person has the “proof” about Jin. So they get to the parking lot at the church, Ben reaches into his pocket to pull out Jin’s ring. But she doesn’t ask, “Why did you bring me all the way out here to give me that, you #%@!@”

  365. DocH says:

    [quote comment="315419"]what is the loose end Benjamin Linus had to tie up? does this have anything to do with the cuts on his face.[/quote]
    #1 – Loose End: Get Sayid arrested and deported.

    #2 – Loose End: Confront Des, kill Penny.

    #3 – Loose End: Arrangements for Aaron kidnap.

    #4 – Loose End: One last romantic interlude with Jill the Butcher.

    (unconfirmed: bruises and cuts on face are from Loose End #4)

  366. Amber says:

    Bobola your comments are so funny they crack me up!

  367. Lostobsessed says:

    [quote comment="315083"]Can someone please explain to me why no one, especially Jack, asked Ben what happenned to him?[/quote]
    I think he went back and killed Penny, remember he promised widmore he would do the same to his daughter.

  368. duke says:

    [quote comment="315319"]I mean the runway the Others built on the little island.[/quote]

    I do not believe the runway got finished. It seemed tongue in cheek when Juliet said it so I don’t really think that’s what they were doing.

  369. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment="315423"][quote comment="315419"]what is the loose end Benjamin Linus had to tie up? does this have anything to do with the cuts on his face.[/quote]
    #1 – Loose End: Get Sayid arrested and deported.

    #2 – Loose End: Confront Des, kill Penny.

    #3 – Loose End: Arrangements for Aaron kidnap.

    #4 – Loose End: One last romantic interlude with Jill the Butcher.

    (unconfirmed: bruises and cuts on face are from Loose End #4)[/quote]

    ———
    Ben may have also had something to do with Hurley. Ben knew Hurley would be released from jail the next morning and could have sent someone to threaten him/his family if he didn’t get on the plane. Hurley seemed a little freaked out on the plane.

  370. duke says:

    [quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]
    Just because Desmond spoke to Hawking doesn’t mean that she is Daniel’s mother. It wasn’t confirmed for me at this point although she could in fact be his mother. Did Widmore actually tell Desmond were to find Daniel’s mom or was he sending Desmond there in hopes that he too would return to the island thereby leaving Penny again? He most certainly does not want Des and Penny together. JUst a thought.

  371. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315146"]We also got the BIG reveal as to why Jack’s dad was wearing white shoes. There were numerous questions about this over the past years. At least Darlton is trying to satisfy us Lost addicts.[/quote]
    ////////////////
    having not watched 316 yet i can only summise, with only 357 posts before this to go on. so here goes… one white training shoe was hung on a bamboo cane in the forest ,just after the jacks eye scene…..i dont think the purge will happen again because dan and charlotte disarmed the dharma station where goodwin worked making the gas[i forget the name of the
    place?].were all the passengers on 315 present in locks dream ,when he went into the sweat lodge? …can someone remind me how sawyer got shot in the shoulder on the way back with ana lucia s party after him and jin were captured?..that may have some bearing on who was shot in the canoe by juliet ???. What im getting at is …instead of traveling back and forth in time, perhaps parallel is a better way of describing the whole situation ? when the original crash occured ,i think they all should have died . But..desmond caused a glitch , at that very moment above the island which caused the plane and its occupants to remain suspended in time and space ,making them alive when they are all supposed to be dead . so long as they stay on the island . once they leave, the balance is upset . thats why they have to go back. desmond is the only person to have arrived on the island by accident . he wasnt looking for the island . his boat was intact . He can come and go as he pleases [by boat].he is probably the keyholder in all of this.i am definately behind the hinduism theory. i will see on sunday night. course i could be a talking a load of old cobblers!
    ps . Absolutley not’ DUKE’ for hall monitor… far too insultive.no offence. thats like having me as a “spelling and puncuation monitor” lol

  372. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315197"]This Blog Needs A Hall Monitor.

    I nominate Hammer and/or duke… do I hear a second?[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////
    i nominate you . dohc

  373. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315432"][quote comment="315197"]This Blog Needs A Hall Monitor.

    I nominate Hammer and/or duke… do I hear a second?[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////
    i nominate you . dohc[/quote]
    ///////////////////
    sorry ,DOCH!

  374. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315403"][quote comment="315400"]
    ben was born at the side of the road in portland, he told sawyer he had been on the island all his life.[/quote]

    See posts 85 and 98.[/quote]
    ///////////////////////
    THATS WHAT I SAID!

  375. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315430"][quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]
    Just because Desmond spoke to Hawking doesn’t mean that she is Daniel’s mother. It wasn’t confirmed for me at this point although she could in fact be his mother. Did Widmore actually tell Desmond were to find Daniel’s mom or was he sending Desmond there in hopes that he too would return to the island thereby leaving Penny again? He most certainly does not want Des and Penny together. JUst a thought.[/quote]
    ////////////////
    im with you . im not convinced hawkins is dans mother either.tooo easy.

  376. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315435"][quote comment="315403"][quote comment="315400"]
    ben was born at the side of the road in portland, he told sawyer he had been on the island all his life.[/quote]

    See posts 85 and 98.[/quote]
    ///////////////////////
    THATS WHAT I SAID![/quote]

    * * * * * * * *

    Yes, I know.

    I was simply pointing out that the question had already been answered previously 250 odd posts earlier… and actually, three other times. No worries.

    : ) P

  377. bearded bum says:

    I was wondering if anyone has thought about Locke being Jacob.

  378. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315430"][quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]
    Just because Desmond spoke to Hawking doesn’t mean that she is Daniel’s mother. It wasn’t confirmed for me at this point although she could in fact be his mother. Did Widmore actually tell Desmond were to find Daniel’s mom or was he sending Desmond there in hopes that he too would return to the island thereby leaving Penny again? He most certainly does not want Des and Penny together. JUst a thought.[/quote]

    *******************
    That’s my point Duke, I’m not convinced she’s his mother either. Especially the way that Ben looked at Des when he said he was there to find Faraday’s mother. Also, something that’s still bothering me is when Widmore said to Des, give her your message and take Penny and be done with this mess (paraphrasing). How did he know Des had a message for her.

  379. Skweez says:

    Here’s my take on grandpa. He has a successful son and a successful grandson and he’s in some funky old folks home. Just doesn’t seem to make sense.

  380. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315420"]Why did Jack have such a crappy painting on wall of his Apt.?
    I hate Modern paintings where the face is just this anonymous wash…a sign of a third rate artist.
    Contrasts strongly with the painting of Doubting Thomas…a painting that is actually about something…although in an old style.

    [/quote]

    I noticed that painting too. Kate’s house had a similar creepy painting. If I had something like that hanging in my house I would NEVER sleep!!!!

  381. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315445"]Here’s my take on grandpa. He has a successful son and a successful grandson and he’s in some funky old folks home. Just doesn’t seem to make sense.[/quote]

    FISHY!!!! First off the whole scene was odd. When they said he had been breaking out I immediately thought of Hurley. Then when I see him I had to take a second look really good because I thought it was Whidmore. Did anyone else think that he oddly reminded them of Charles but with a nicer personality? It was more about the way he looked. Coincidence?? Or fate??

  382. wally p says:

    [quote comment="315436"][quote comment="315430"][quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]
    Just because Desmond spoke to Hawking doesn’t mean that she is Daniel’s mother. It wasn’t confirmed for me at this point although she could in fact be his mother. Did Widmore actually tell Desmond were to find Daniel’s mom or was he sending Desmond there in hopes that he too would return to the island thereby leaving Penny again? He most certainly does not want Des and Penny together. JUst a thought.[/quote]
    ////////////////
    im with you . im not convinced hawkins is dans mother either.tooo easy.[/quote]

    I’m thinking Whitmore sent Desmond there to screw up Bens face personally, but I’d still say that Hawking is Dans mom. At least the lady he meant for Des to meet. My guessing is that Ben pulls strings with Dharma cuz of his ties, but Whitmore and Ellie Hawkin still like to kick him around for laughs whenever they get the chance. The more the merrier.

  383. Hman says:

    Wait did I miss somthing or didnt they say ben could never return because he moved the island….?

  384. Hman says:

    Wait did I miss somthing or didnt they say ben could never return because he moved the island….?

  385. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315461"]Wait did I miss somthing or didnt they say ben could never return because he moved the island….?[/quote]
    Yes, he did say that, but he has been known to be somewhat less than truthful at times.

  386. TechLost says:

    ABADDON: You know what you need, Mr. Locke? You need to go on a walkabout.

    LOCKE: Wha–what’s a walkabout?

    ABADDON: It’s a journey of self-discovery. You go out into the Australian Outback with nothing more than a knife and your wits.

    LOCKE: I can’t “walkabout” anything. In case you haven’t noticed, I’m a cripple.

    ABADDON: Is that what you are, Mr. Locke? I went on my walkabout convinced I was one thing, but I came back another. I found out what I was made of, who I was.

    LOCKE: And here you are, an orderly.

    ABADDON: Oh, I’m a lot more than just an orderly, John.

    [Elevator bell dings]

    ABADDON: When you’re ready, Mr. Locke… (presses button) you’ll listen to what I’m saying. And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.

    I got this from the transcript of cabin fever on lost pedia. i assume since the episode is called the life and death of jeremy bentham we will see Locke and Abbadon meet again…… Anybody have any idea what Abbadon wants Locke to do for him?

  387. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315444"]*******************
    That’s my point Duke, I’m not convinced she’s his mother either. Especially the way that Ben looked at Des when he said he was there to find Faraday’s mother. [/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    On top of all the hints before hand, this is all I needed for proof:

    DESMOND: [Sighs, scoffs] I came here to deliver a message. Daniel Faraday–your son–sent me here. He wanted me to tell you that he and all the people on the Island need your help. He said that only you could help them. He didn’t say Jack. He didn’t say Sun. He didn’t say Ben. He said you.

    ELOISE: But I am helping, dear.

    ‘I am’ = Dan’s mom in this case.

  388. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Very interesting idea Emit – we will have to watch to see what Hurley does with the guitar, where it ends up. Could very well be Charlie’s new island guitar!

  389. RGS says:

    Ok finally watched it last night. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be.

    Now I’m thinking Ben, and the new character(s) are the ones shooting at the left behinders on those boats.

    Chances that Ms. Hawkings is NOT Daniel’s mother…less than 1%. Desmond storms off in a huff, he’s not going to be looking for Daniel’s mother anymore to deliver a message…it will probably be the end of this season before we see him again. I just doubt that they bring in yet another character to act as Daniel’s mother. Finally, the writer’s love to relate all of these character’s in some way.

    My fear is that we will never really know why the island is so important. We’ve gone from “we only have 70 hrs or we’re toast, to well let’s just get it as close as possible,” and she would have to know that it would bring a disjointed result.

    If I’m Jack, as soon as the plane takes off, I’m pulling Kate up, “all jokes aside, what did you do with my nephew?”

    I think either Claire or Locke took Aaron. It will be consistent with Island mythos.

    I don’t think Ben called Jack, John. I think it’s just sounded that way because he’s soft spoken. I actually had to go back to see what part y’all were talking about because on first view I never got that take. I’m also not listening to it in surround sound though, or 42 inch HD TV (there’s a recession going on just in case some of you don’t know ;-p). Soon y’all will be saying, “Did you hear that?!?!!!”

    “What?”

    “Ben just called me by my middle name.”

  390. Hammer says:

    Emerson has a different speech pattern. He often draws out vowels. Sometimes, when he’s being dramatic he says Jaack (like Jock).

  391. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315420"]Why did Jack have such a crappy painting on wall of his Apt.?
    I hate Modern paintings where the face is just this anonymous wash…a sign of a third rate artist.
    Contrasts strongly with the painting of Doubting Thomas…a painting that is actually about something…although in an old style.

    Weird that Jack would also not read John’s note…
    might be important??? YA think?
    He’s just always going to an arrogant fool.
    And why does Kate just jump in bed with Jack again?
    “I lost my baby…so let’s fuck…?”

    Damn Hurley; splashing around like a 12 year old sissy. He certainly has enough blubber to float!
    I hope he gets his ass smoked soon; tired of his antics.

    What didn’t make sense;
    Sun’s about to shoot Ben…and then chills out before she gets any sort of proof Jin is alive as Ben advertised…hunh?

    Looks like Ben got worked over good…like he was beaten up to get information out of him.[/quote]
    Sounds like somebody needs a nap….and a cookie!

  392. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="315491"]Ok finally watched it last night. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be.[/quote]
    That’s the problem with reading or hearing what people have to say about an episode before you see it yourself, I think. If people say “Oh that was the best episode ever” before I watch the episode, it gets my hopes up and then I’m always disappointed in it. It has an adverse effect on your viewing experience, IMHO. So most times I avoid the thread for an episode until after I’ve seen it.

  393. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315482"]ABADDON: You know what you need, Mr. Locke? You need to go on a walkabout.

    LOCKE: Wha–what’s a walkabout?

    ABADDON: It’s a journey of self-discovery. You go out into the Australian Outback with nothing more than a knife and your wits.

    LOCKE: I can’t “walkabout” anything. In case you haven’t noticed, I’m a cripple.

    ABADDON: Is that what you are, Mr. Locke? I went on my walkabout convinced I was one thing, but I came back another. I found out what I was made of, who I was.

    LOCKE: And here you are, an orderly.

    ABADDON: Oh, I’m a lot more than just an orderly, John.

    [Elevator bell dings]

    ABADDON: When you’re ready, Mr. Locke… (presses button) you’ll listen to what I’m saying. And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.

    I got this from the transcript of cabin fever on lost pedia. i assume since the episode is called the life and death of jeremy bentham we will see Locke and Abbadon meet again…… Anybody have any idea what Abbadon wants Locke to do for him?[/quote]

    **********************

    I have this strange feeling that when Abbadon shows up, he’ll definitely be in a different “role” than he has been in the past couple of times we’ve seen him. He’s an odd character and I think he’s way up on “Other” hiearchy.

  394. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315486"][quote comment="315334"][quote comment="315208"]Whose guitar was Hurley carring? Could it be recreating Charlie’s presence on the plane?[/quote]

    =================
    in season 1 when lock asks charlie about his guitar he tells him that customs didn’t let him take it on the plane (oceanic 815), lock tells hims the island could give him what he wanted but he had to give something in exchange, he gave lock the heroin and then lock told him to look over him, and there was a guitar amid all the crash wreckage, (also the coffin was nearby) maybe this wasn’t oceanic wreckage it was Ajira (they arrived back in the seventies didnt they) (all this happened at the place where they found Adam and eve), i think this was the guitar case that Hurley took on the plane, maybe charlie told him to take it?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Very interesting idea Emit – we will have to watch to see what Hurley does with the guitar, where it ends up. Could very well be Charlie’s new island guitar![/quote]
    ________________________________
    AAAAAAAAAACH! Sorry for the repeat – that’s what I get for not reading ALL the posts before responding!

  395. Rita says:

    OK, this time I DID read EVERY SINGLE ONE of the posts – some truly great ideas out there! Thanks everyone. Here are a few of mine:

    1) Kate’s kiss: I think it meant one of two things – a)”I am really hurting because I just lost my child to be with you so you had better be worth it!” OR b)”enjoy this while you can get it because I’m going back to the island…for SAWYER!”

    2) Speaking of Kate: Something seemed “off” about Kate. She really did look DEAD on Jack’s bed. When Lapidis came out of the plane cabin and looked around at the LOSTies, the camera focused on EVERYONE but Kate. Did he even mention her name, as he did for the rest of them? Also, watch Hurley come out of the water toward Jack and Kate – he is watching Jack the whole time (if I remember correctly) and doesn’t actually speak to Kate. Also odd, I know JACK can’t ask her about Aaron, but why doesn’t anyone else? Sun maybe? Like, “Kate, where is Aaron?”

    3) Regarding how Sayid ended up on the plane: Try this out – Ben told Sayid to kill Penny and Charlie, Sayid says “@!!#$” and pulls a Hurley – turns himself in to be safe from Ben (and his island plans), but Ben pulls a Ben, and gets him sent to Guam via THE PLANE.

    4) Ben COULDN’T kill Penny – we would never tolerate that. It would end all speculation about Ben being good/bad and change the whole dynamic of the show. Therefore, I propose that Ben threatened Desmond with SOMETHING BIG related to Penny, and NOW Des has to go back to the island to yet again win/free Penny. Ben probably got the snot beat out of him in the process (go Des!)

    5) We never got a good look at the back of the plane – because the other passengers are all “red shirts” or because we aren’t meant to see… Aaron back there perhaps?

    That’s it for now! I actually LOVED this episode, though I am so obsessed that I am not that hard to please – just give me another LOST fix and I’m good.

  396. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315343"][quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]

    Dan is probably not her REAL son.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I think Dan is her real son, and that she cares deeply about what he is going through, but like any good mom, she knows that sometimes he just has to go through stuff. She knows (somehow) that it is his destiny and it will all come out OK in the end. For example: a mom takes her child to the doctor for an immunization. The child cries for mom to help them the whole time – they don’t like it but mom knowns it needs to happen and will help them in the long run. It isn’t that she doesn’t care. She’s there, holding their hand and watching over them the whole time. Of course I understand that this analogy only goes so far, but you get the idea.

  397. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315500"]_______________________________
    I think Dan is her real son, and that she cares deeply about what he is going through, but like any good mom, she knows that sometimes he just has to go through stuff. She knows (somehow) that it is his destiny and it will all come out OK in the end. For example: a mom takes her child to the doctor for an immunization. The child cries for mom to help them the whole time – they don’t like it but mom knowns it needs to happen and will help them in the long run. It isn’t that she doesn’t care. She’s there, holding their hand and watching over them the whole time. Of course I understand that this analogy only goes so far, but you get the idea.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    It’s a good analogy, because Hawking has the advantage of knowing that saving someone’s life if futile….just the mother has the advantage of knowing that stopping the needle won’t help the child…just delay pain.

  398. vavila says:

    [quote comment="315374"][quote comment="315368"][quote comment="315359"]Back to Steve–
    So yes, what IS the point of Locke having to die? It has to be more than a plot contrivance to get the O6 back. HAS to be, or it will be beyond disappointing. I’m hopeful it will be, but I guess we’ll see next week.

    Cheers, Liz[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Okay, JMO, but I thought it was kind of clear. Locke had to sacrifice himself to be he proxy for Christian so that Jack could go back under similar circumstances. Locke is the one that was chosen to do this because he is the ONLY one who has faith.

    So now, John Locke, with blind faith, which, ok, granted, satisfies him and fulfills him, it’s the life path he’s chosen, has to die to get them to go back.

    [/quote]


    I personally do not believe that Locke had to die just to serve as a proxy to get the )6ers back, I don’t think he is dead and I think that his willingness to die is a part of the long process of proving that he is the chosen leader and slowly being promoted upwards. he was recruited since childhood by Alpert (who said they chose leaders very carefully from birth), he saw Christian, he is leading losties, the willingness to die will get him to the next leadership level on the island. I think…

  399. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315499"]

    2) Speaking of Kate: Something seemed “off” about Kate. She really did look DEAD on Jack’s bed. When Lapidis came out of the plane cabin and looked around at the LOSTies, the camera focused on EVERYONE but Kate. Did he even mention her name, as he did for the rest of them? Also, watch Hurley come out of the water toward Jack and Kate – he is watching Jack the whole time (if I remember correctly) and doesn’t actually speak to Kate. Also odd, I know JACK can’t ask her about Aaron, but why doesn’t anyone else? Sun maybe? Like, “Kate, where is Aaron?”

    [/quote]

    He doesn’t speak to Kate but the camera DOES focus on her. I watched it OVER and OVER trying to get a hint at that part. Still, why didn’t her and Dun talk? They were just friendly 36 hours beforehand. Something was definitely up with Kate. I think it wasn’t her but I don’t know. Her eyes were weird and her lips were blue.

    She is definitely a zombie and when she gets back to the island she is going to come back to life!!!

    That or she killed Aaron. Crazy woman.

  400. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315500"][quote comment="315343"][quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]

    Dan is probably not her REAL son.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I think Dan is her real son, and that she cares deeply about what he is going through, but like any good mom, she knows that sometimes he just has to go through stuff. She knows (somehow) that it is his destiny and it will all come out OK in the end. For example: a mom takes her child to the doctor for an immunization. The child cries for mom to help them the whole time – they don’t like it but mom knowns it needs to happen and will help them in the long run. It isn’t that she doesn’t care. She’s there, holding their hand and watching over them the whole time. Of course I understand that this analogy only goes so far, but you get the idea.[/quote]

    ************************

    Yes, I guess you could be right. She is the mother of all course correction and she’d be damned if she’s going to go against the grain when she already knows the outcome. This just continues to get shadier by the episode.

    ps. That was an excellent analogy.

  401. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315500"][quote comment="315343"][quote comment="315341"][quote comment="315113"]Is it me or was it odd the way Ms. Hawking reacted to Dez’s message? It was as if she could care less about Mr. Skinny Tie![/quote]
    Yah, she hasn’t seemed real motherly so far–i hope we learn more about da baby Dan, and all that. Maybe she’s a scientist obsessed with her work. Little boy Dan was not of interest to her…?
    –Liz[/quote]

    Dan is probably not her REAL son.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I think Dan is her real son, and that she cares deeply about what he is going through, but like any good mom, she knows that sometimes he just has to go through stuff. She knows (somehow) that it is his destiny and it will all come out OK in the end. For example: a mom takes her child to the doctor for an immunization. The child cries for mom to help them the whole time – they don’t like it but mom knowns it needs to happen and will help them in the long run. It isn’t that she doesn’t care. She’s there, holding their hand and watching over them the whole time. Of course I understand that this analogy only goes so far, but you get the idea.[/quote]

    I don’t know. The last name thing doesn’t add up so I am guessing he is her adopted or stepson or something on those lines. But who knows!

  402. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315504"][quote comment="315499"]

    2) Speaking of Kate: Something seemed “off” about Kate. She really did look DEAD on Jack’s bed. When Lapidis came out of the plane cabin and looked around at the LOSTies, the camera focused on EVERYONE but Kate. Did he even mention her name, as he did for the rest of them? Also, watch Hurley come out of the water toward Jack and Kate – he is watching Jack the whole time (if I remember correctly) and doesn’t actually speak to Kate. Also odd, I know JACK can’t ask her about Aaron, but why doesn’t anyone else? Sun maybe? Like, “Kate, where is Aaron?”

    [/quote]

    He doesn’t speak to Kate but the camera DOES focus on her. I watched it OVER and OVER trying to get a hint at that part. Still, why didn’t her and Dun talk? They were just friendly 36 hours beforehand. Something was definitely up with Kate. I think it wasn’t her but I don’t know. Her eyes were weird and her lips were blue.

    She is definitely a zombie and when she gets back to the island she is going to come back to life!!!

    That or she killed Aaron. Crazy woman.[/quote]

    *************

    I intially thought Kate gave Aaron to the couple who were going to adopt him in LA. But now I’m thinking Claire came back and got her baaaybeeee, and sucked the life outta Kate in the process for rasining him in the first place.

  403. Eric says:

    Been thinking. New theory :-)

    Lapidus=Pilot and Captain

    Lapidus=Captain of Black Rock?

    Magnus Hanso owned the ship.

    Lapidus is either Hanso or the Captain of his ship.

    Been wondering why the church element seems important too. Hanso, the German philosopher, had a student, St. Thomas Aquinas. Thomas is widely considered one of the most important Philosophers ever. For Catholics, he is a rock (I went to Jesuit schools and had this crap force fed to me).

    More interesting still, is that James Joyce cites Thomas as a huge influence, and calls him second only to Aristotle among Philosphers in world history.

    I’m wondering if these people with names that match historic philosphers and others of interest aren’t tied to the notion of reincarnation central to the show. Perhaps the clues necessary to solve the issues facing the Losties are hidden in literature and philosophy and physics?

  404. Eric says:

    Was odd to me to have this Desmond/monk thing (from Catch-22). And the picture of Hawking and the monk. Now I’m thinking the monks have been at odds with Hanso through the Aquinas/Hanso link. Ben’s reading Ulysses because in there Joyce embedded info (from Aquinas) and his fight with Hanso.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magnus_Hanso

    Never read this before, but now I am 100% convinced Smokey in the outcome of Hanso alchemy experiments!

    Aquinas, and now the monks and Hawking (and Ben) are on the side against the Hanso followers.

    Now I’m wondering where Alpert fits…

  405. vavila says:

    [quote comment="315482"]ABADDON: You know what you need, Mr. Locke? You need to go on a walkabout.

    LOCKE: Wha–what’s a walkabout?

    ABADDON: It’s a journey of self-discovery. You go out into the Australian Outback with nothing more than a knife and your wits.

    LOCKE: I can’t “walkabout” anything. In case you haven’t noticed, I’m a cripple.

    ABADDON: Is that what you are, Mr. Locke? I went on my walkabout convinced I was one thing, but I came back another. I found out what I was made of, who I was.

    LOCKE: And here you are, an orderly.

    ABADDON: Oh, I’m a lot more than just an orderly, John.

    [Elevator bell dings]

    ABADDON: When you’re ready, Mr. Locke… (presses button) you’ll listen to what I’m saying. And then when you and me run into each other again… you’ll owe me one.

    I got this from the transcript of cabin fever on lost pedia. i assume since the episode is called the life and death of jeremy bentham we will see Locke and Abbadon meet again…… Anybody have any idea what Abbadon wants Locke to do for him?[/quote]

    Nah, don’t know what he’ll ask Locke to do for him, but I’m glad to brought Abbadon into dicussion because he is one of the characters I really wanna see more of :) I agree with you that he’s somewhere most likely higher up in the hierarchy… Don’t forget that he recruited Naomi, etc what also fits into my new belief that Widmore is actually working with Hawkins and everyone else (still don’t know what their goal is – save the island, save the people on the island???)…

  406. vavila says:

    [quote comment="315511"]Was odd to me to have this Desmond/monk thing (from Catch-22). And the picture of Hawking and the monk. Now I’m thinking the monks have been at odds with Hanso through the Aquinas/Hanso link. Ben’s reading Ulysses because in there Joyce embedded info (from Aquinas) and his fight with Hanso.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magnus_Hanso

    Never read this before, but now I am 100% convinced Smokey in the outcome of Hanso alchemy experiments!

    Aquinas, and now the monks and Hawking (and Ben) are on the side against the Hanso followers.

    Now I’m wondering where Alpert fits…[/quote]


    Really interesting, i think thsi make more sense than Ben vs Widmore… Have to think more about it…

    Alpert gotta be with ‘monks’ – people who believe that the island is sacred and do not want to see Dharma or anybody else expereimenting with the ‘order of things’. Hence Alpert took others to the Temple and this is why Alpert recruited Ben for the purge…

    Do not know where the smokey came, he (she lol) could be native to the island to maintain its sacredness…

  407. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment="315462"]Wait did I miss somthing or didnt they say ben could never return because he moved the island….?[/quote]

    —————-

    Christian told Locke that Locke was the one who was suppose to move the island, not Ben. Ben never should have left so I think he must go back. Not only that, but Ben was the one who said he couldn’t come back and we all know what a liar he is. . .

  408. i need answers says:

    is it just me…or has Ben and Desmond never met before. desmond tried to leave the island at the begining of season 2 only to find his way back at the end of season 2…Ben shows up after desmond leaves..and leaves before desmond got back…and i think the next time that ben and the “losties” meet up is at the radio tower…and desmond is in the looking glass with charlie…am i missing something or has Des and Ben been in different places for a reason or just coincidence….also concerning the doubting thomas painting…could there be a dirrect connection between the apostles and the Losties…say Locke is Jesus..maybe Michael is Judas and jack is Thomas…just a thought

  409. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315430"]
    Just because Desmond spoke to Hawking doesn’t mean that she is Daniel’s mother. It wasn’t confirmed for me at this point although she could in fact be his mother.[/quote]
    I am not sure how much clearer it could have been that Ms. Hawking IS Faraday’s mother.

    DESMOND: [Sighs, scoffs] I came here to deliver a message. Daniel Faraday–your son–sent me here. He wanted me to tell you that he and all the people on the Island need your help. He said that only you could help them. He didn’t say Jack. He didn’t say Sun. He didn’t say Ben. He said you.

    ELOISE: But I am helping, dear.

  410. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315515"]is it just me…or has Ben and Desmond never met before. desmond tried to leave the island at the begining of season 2 only to find his way back at the end of season 2…Ben shows up after desmond leaves..and leaves before desmond got back…and i think the next time that ben and the “losties” meet up is at the radio tower…and desmond is in the looking glass with charlie…am i missing something or has Des and Ben been in different places for a reason or just coincidence[/quote]

    You may be on to something. I have maintained that the characters are regularly separated into different groups and that there ARE reasons.

    I cannot recall a time (prior to this episode) when Ben and Desmond were together on screen. However, Ben has, at the very least, KNOWN about Desmond, if not the other way around. Ben told Sayid that he used Desmond’s boat to leave the island. Yes, we know this is a lie, but he still knew about the boat.

    Whether or not Desmond and Ben have a prior relationship remains to be seen. I would love to hear if anyone can recall a time when the two characters have met on screen, or communicated, prior to meeting outside the church in S5E6.

    : ) P

  411. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="315428"][quote comment="315319"]I mean the runway the Others built on the little island.[/quote]

    I do not believe the runway got finished. It seemed tongue in cheek when Juliet said it so I don’t really think that’s what they were doing.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Agree. I think it was a sarcastic remark. Like Ben saying his mom tought him to read.

  412. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="315462"]Wait did I miss somthing or didnt they say ben could never return because he moved the island….?[/quote]
    Yes and no. He said that if you moved the island you could not come back. BUT, Ben was not supposed to move the island, John was. So, since he was not supposed to move it, he was not supposed to leave…. hence he can come back alive?

  413. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="315504"][quote comment="315499"]

    That or she killed Aaron. Crazy woman.[/quote]

    ——
    Takes one to know one.

  414. Miraks says:

    Been thinking about why Ben was reading “Ulysses” and the painting of St. Thomas in the church. Here is my humble opinion.

    The story of Thomas is something we’ll see in the future. Thomas did not believe that Jesus had risen from the dead, even when he saw him with his own eyes. He had to touch the wounds of Christ before his faith was restored. We’ll see a parallel to this when Locke rises from the dead. Some (Jack?) will not believe, until they are convinced by some dramatic means. This scene also goes with my previous theory that Jack is turning into the “man of faith”, but is not there yet.

    Ben knew the story of St. Thomas, a big story especially for catholics. But, on the plane he reads James Joyce, an author that was raised as a catholic, but lost his faith in the church and turned his back on it. Maybe a hint that Ben is at odds with the island now because he has lost his faith in it? (because of his tumor? because Alex got killed?)

  415. Jaime says:

    O.k i finally got a better pic of the Dharma logo on Jin’s Dharma uniform

    So will they be assigned positions like we all were when we took those tests?

  416. SDlost says:

    [quote comment="315507"][quote comment="315504"][quote comment="315499"]

    2) Speaking of Kate: Something seemed “off” about Kate. She really did look DEAD on Jack’s bed. When Lapidis came out of the plane cabin and looked around at the LOSTies, the camera focused on EVERYONE but Kate. Did he even mention her name, as he did for the rest of them? Also, watch Hurley come out of the water toward Jack and Kate – he is watching Jack the whole time (if I remember correctly) and doesn’t actually speak to Kate. Also odd, I know JACK can’t ask her about Aaron, but why doesn’t anyone else? Sun maybe? Like, “Kate, where is Aaron?”

    [/quote]

    He doesn’t speak to Kate but the camera DOES focus on her. I watched it OVER and OVER trying to get a hint at that part. Still, why didn’t her and Dun talk? They were just friendly 36 hours beforehand. Something was definitely up with Kate. I think it wasn’t her but I don’t know. Her eyes were weird and her lips were blue.

    She is definitely a zombie and when she gets back to the island she is going to come back to life!!!

    That or she killed Aaron. Crazy woman.[/quote]

    *************

    I intially thought Kate gave Aaron to the couple who were going to adopt him in LA. But now I’m thinking Claire came back and got her baaaybeeee, and sucked the life outta Kate in the process for rasining him in the first place.[/quote]

    _____________________________

    HAHA! “Baaaaaybeeeee”! It drives me nuts everytime I hear Claire say “MY BAAAYYBEEE”

  417. SDlost says:

    Isn’t it kind of ridiculous that Jack showed up for the flight in a suit? Come on, Jack! I can understand that they were supposed to mirror the O815 flight but put some cargo pants and hiking boots on!

    I also agree with Amber – Bobola’s post are hilarious, I look forward to them!

  418. SDlost says:

    Ben was totally lying when he told Jack that he didn’t know that Locke hanged himself. Ben is a liar.

  419. Anton Young says:

    good place to keep track of lost: http://www.spotep.com/#serieid=lost

  420. Tasha says:

    I think we are looking too deep into Des not ever seeing Ben before. Ben was the buzz/gossip of the island. I mean what do you think these people were doing when they sat around building campfires? If asked to describe him….a creepy little man with brown hair and eyes that look like they will pop out of his head! It’s kind of obvious. I mean for all we know, someone had a picture of him, maybe even on the freighter.

    Again…I might be wrong. Maybe it’s A CLUE A CLUE!!! I shall go back and investigate every second of the first 4 seasons just in case though!!!

  421. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="315523"][quote comment="315515"]is it just me…or has Ben and Desmond never met before. desmond tried to leave the island at the begining of season 2 only to find his way back at the end of season 2…Ben shows up after desmond leaves..and leaves before desmond got back…and i think the next time that ben and the “losties” meet up is at the radio tower…and desmond is in the looking glass with charlie…am i missing something or has Des and Ben been in different places for a reason or just coincidence[/quote]

    You may be on to something. I have maintained that the characters are regularly separated into different groups and that there ARE reasons.

    I cannot recall a time (prior to this episode) when Ben and Desmond were together on screen. However, Ben has, at the very least, KNOWN about Desmond, if not the other way around. Ben told Sayid that he used Desmond’s boat to leave the island. Yes, we know this is a lie, but he still knew about the boat.

    Whether or not Desmond and Ben have a prior relationship remains to be seen. I would love to hear if anyone can recall a time when the two characters have met on screen, or communicated, prior to meeting outside the church in S5E6.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ********************************************
    this is from Lostpedia (not cannon though)

    Desmond has never met Walt, Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Charlotte, or Miles. However, he has met the rest of the main characters.

    * Despite both characters being around since season 2, the first dialogue spoken between Desmond and Ben occurred near the end of the season 5 episode “This Place is Death”.

  422. Jaime says:

    From what i can find/remember the only real scenes of the two were form “Through the looking glass” When Desmond and Charlie are in the looking glass with Bonnie, Greta, and Mikhail. They never speak nor see each other. Ben contacts the station and Mikhail speaks to him privately.

  423. Tasha says:

    YES! I can recall a time their characters were together! When Ben was Jack’s prisoner at the beginning of season 4. ALSO, I am pretty sure someone already answered that many MANY posts ago. I remember reading it!

  424. RGS says:

    Ok so why does Ben feel HE needs to turn the FDW? Assuming that he’s lying in that he who turns the wheel can’t return, why does he want to send the island through a wacky time warp?

    According to Mrs. Faraday/Hawkings, the island is constantly moving…this suggests this occurs independent of the turning of the FDW. I’m assuming, this is also independent of the 108 minute button pushing, because they are still able to calculate when and where the island will appear at the LampPost and that button pushing has long since stopped, moreover they used the LampPost to find it originally, no?

    If Widmore knows where Hawkings is, and assuming that they were both on the island..can’t he deduce that the LampPost must be within the church and therefore he can find the island anytime he wants? Are they going to show how Widmore found it for the mercenary mission in the first place?

    So Ben’s little statement that “he’ll never be able to find it” is rather strange.

    Do we think Widmore was associated with Dharma?

  425. Tasha says:

    I found the scene. Not quite the EXACT scene but put them together! They may not speak but they are there and I am sure Des KNOWS it’s Ben!

    Then Ben asks for permission to go with Locke!!!

  426. Tasha says:

    Here is the next part….wouldn’t let me post together….

  427. Denny says:

    316 is one number higher than 315 which is a recurring number throughout the series. Flight 315, the man stalking the mental institution that Hurley was staying in told Sayid it was 8:15 when Sayid shot him.

    Still trying to determine 816 significance in relation to the everything else on the table.

    Excellent TV entertainment, we eagerly anticipate every episode.

  428. PJSander says:

    Great detective work, Tasha, thank you!

    I didn’t remember Desmond being in that scene, I had forgotten that he made it back to the beach at that point.

    Well that settles that question once and for all!

    : ) P

  429. TanziTwo says:

    Even if they had never met (Ben ‘n Des). Don’t you just think (maybe a little) that in the THREE YEARS following The Lie (fake rescue of OA 6) that at some point Pen/Des and some/all of the OA6 traded notes/stories about the island. Penny probably knows who he is – regardless.

    Penny: “Desmond, you didn’t happen to meet a bugged-eyed, bubble-butt, ego-maniac on the island, did you? The Losties keep mentioning him – his name is Ben – and he is pure evil.”

    Des: “That was in anutha life, sistuh.”

  430. black rock n roller says:

    I am so into the show and this board and while all of these posts are far more thought out than mine will ever be two things

    1) Best line of the night

    Jack to Ben: how are you reading?

    Ben: My Mother taught me

    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?

  431. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315554"]
    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I’ve wondered the same thing.

  432. ShelbyDee says:

    Did anyone else have a Dorothy/Wizard of Oz moment over the whole shoe thing? All Jack needed to do was click Locke’s heels together!

  433. Bobola says:

    Let’s see now…hmmmm, I’m gettin ready for my trip back to the island…and what would I be taking?

    Sayid: Extra Hair Gel and a copy of Gentle Torturing for Dummies. Hell, I’m handcuffed to the hottest Marshall in History…What Me Worry?

    Kate (Freckles): A set of Wife Beaters that say: A Smoke Monster Ate My Baby… and a box of Camouflaged condoms.

    Sun: Seeds for my Tropical Garden that include Cannibus and crazy glue for Jin’s ring to stay put this time. Baby photos so I can have a good cry near Emmy Awards time.

    Doc Jack: Hmmm…Medical Supplies? Jack Daniels? No, I think I’ll take my buddy John in a casket…but nothing that could help me SURVIVE on a remote Island that might have a few dangerous people there trying to kill me. It’s a Tropical island…why would I need a Hat, fer Christ’s sake when I got a shiny blue suit?

    Ben: A copy of Lord of the Flies and a big bottle of Arnica.

    Hurley: A guitar case full of Ho Hos and Doritos. Bonus Points: They float better than I do!
    I’ll leave behind my mirror because I don’t care that my hair looks like it got sent to me thru a time warp from the original Woodstock.

    Desmond; ooops…Dezzy had a hissy fit and walked out…wanna bet he’s hog tied and packed into the area of the plane set aside for Pets? Probably knocked him out with a Scottish golf club or maybe force fed a few bottles of Monastery Wine.

    And I also bet; One of those passengers in the rear is someone they really won’t want to get onto the island. Someone working for Widmore.

    In Flight Movie: A Jimmy Stewart Double Feature;
    The Flight of the Phoenix and It’s a Wonderful Life!

  434. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315542"]Ok so why does Ben feel HE needs to turn the FDW? Assuming that he’s lying in that he who turns the wheel can’t return, why does he want to send the island through a wacky time warp?

    According to Mrs. Faraday/Hawkings, the island is constantly moving…this suggests this occurs independent of the turning of the FDW. I’m assuming, this is also independent of the 108 minute button pushing, because they are still able to calculate when and where the island will appear at the LampPost and that button pushing has long since stopped, moreover they used the LampPost to find it originally, no?

    If Widmore knows where Hawkings is, and assuming that they were both on the island..can’t he deduce that the LampPost must be within the church and therefore he can find the island anytime he wants? Are they going to show how Widmore found it for the mercenary mission in the first place?

    So Ben’s little statement that “he’ll never be able to find it” is rather strange.

    Do we think Widmore was associated with Dharma?[/quote]
    Good points. Maybe Ben turned the wheel under someone’s orders and didn’t FULLY understand the consequences? But your right, WHAT was the motivation? I’m still wondering how Ben and his others in seasons 3 and 4 seem to move so freely to and from the island. Especially after Hawking’s explanation that the island is always moving.

    As for Widmore knowing about Hawking and the LampPost, I think he had a different way to find the island. That probably went to part of Faraday’s funding. After all, Hawking said there were unique pockets of electromagnetic energy all of the world. Maybe one in London near Oxford?

  435. Runamuck says:

    did anyone else notice the giant * flux capacitor* in the lamppost? made me giggle

  436. LICU says:

    Hey, could new asian guy (who sees dead people) be JIN’S son (and not Marvin Candle’s) or, wait, could Jin be Marvin Candle’s son?…hmmmm

  437. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315534"]Ben was totally lying when he told Jack that he didn’t know that Locke hanged himself. Ben is a liar.[/quote]
    I think you may be right about that, in fact, I am sure Ben played some part in his death. Maybe he made the noose for him if he even really did hang himself. I wish more people would understand that Ben is probably always lying. Like when he said he CAN NEVER go back to the island to Locke.

  438. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315596"][quote comment="315534"][/quote]
    …I wish more people would understand that Ben is probably always lying. Like when he said he CAN NEVER go back to the island to Locke.[/quote]
    __________________________________

    Ben is such a skilled liar that he sprinkles just enough truth into his lies that you never know which is which. He doesn’t ALWAYS lie, that would be too easy. He is more dangerous this way.

  439. LizS says:

    [quote comment="315560"]Did anyone else have a Dorothy/Wizard of Oz moment over the whole shoe thing? All Jack needed to do was click Locke’s heels together![/quote]
    LOL, love it!

  440. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315600"][quote comment="315596"][quote comment="315534"][/quote]
    …I wish more people would understand that Ben is probably always lying. Like when he said he CAN NEVER go back to the island to Locke.[/quote]
    __________________________________

    Ben is such a skilled liar that he sprinkles just enough truth into his lies that you never know which is which. He doesn’t ALWAYS lie, that would be too easy. He is more dangerous this way.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Agreed. He doesn’t ALWAYS lie. That’s why I said probably, like Hawking said when asked if he was telling the truth, “probably not”.

  441. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315595"]Hey, could new asian guy (who sees dead people) be JIN’S son (and not Marvin Candle’s) or, wait, could Jin be Marvin Candle’s son?…hmmmm[/quote]

    I thought about that awhile back….more on the lines of, I am thinking maybe JUST maybe, all the oceanic 6 were once on the island. Maybe they got killed in the purge. Doubtful though. I am thinking as CHILDREN they were all taken off, like Charlotte. Miles doesn’t remember being there. Not really any evidence to support this much but I am keeping my mind open to it in case we get thrown some twists.

  442. Tasha says:

    I have a question….

    Has Ben ever admitted that he lied about being BORN on the island? I know we know from his flashbacks, but has he ever said to John….Hey! I Lied!!!! I wasn’t born here!!! I think he did but can’t remember?

  443. Bobola says:

    Ben is great lier but that doesn’t make him bad. Hell, I’d lie like hell to manipulate these Losties. They are no prizes themselves.
    I think Ben will turn out to be a hero of this tale.
    How come no one said; HEY, I thought you couldn’t go back? when he shows up for the flight.

    Seems they need me at the script writing sessions.

    First suggestion;
    Let’s kill off Hurley before he gets a chance to strum that guitar assuming it’s not full of “comfort food”.
    then;
    Love triangle! Sayeed and Ben compete for the affections of the new Marshall cuffed to Sayeed. But the Marshall is more into three way with Sun and Jin.
    Jin is way into it because the Marshall is a great seafood chef!
    Also; Sawyer finally gets all ghetto on the Doc Jack and wins back Kate after one smug comment too many from Dr. Jekyll. Jack is left brain dead after a fight; almost no one notices.
    Kate and Sawyer start the first Trailer park on the island and raise some pistol packin youngins.
    The polar bear eats Locke but in turn is gobbled up by Smokie.
    Widmore has been trying so hard to keep Desmond apart from his daughter because they are actually half siblings. Same mother …but Ben is Dez’s Dad. Who knew?
    Miles steals Hurley’s guitar and starts an “unplugged” rock band …The Enemic Oceanic Asians. Sun sings and Jin plays coconut bongos.
    Miles perviously visited Jim Morrison’s grave in Paris and stole lyrics from the Lizard King himself. Miles calls himself the Gekko King. A recording is smuggled off the island and Josh Groban, tired of all the crap he’s been singing, steals all the music for his new project.
    Ben shows up backstage at the Grammies and kills Groban with his collapsible baton.

    Could happen.

  444. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="315534"]Ben was totally lying when he told Jack that he didn’t know that Locke hanged himself. Ben is a liar.[/quote]

    I am confused about this — didn’t the obit say he died from suicide. Why then did Jack acted all surprised Locke died from suicide? I mean, somehow we all knew it was a suicide from the obit right?

  445. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315636"]
    How come no one said; HEY, I thought you couldn’t go back? when he shows up for the flight.
    [quote comment="315637"]
    Ben told that only to Locke, just before turning the FDW.
    I am confused about this — didn’t the obit say he died from suicide. Why then did Jack acted all surprised Locke died from suicide? I mean, somehow we all knew it was a suicide from the obit right?
    [/quote]
    You are correct, it was in the obit. However it was never stated for the average viewer.

  446. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315636"]
    How come no one said; HEY, I thought you couldn’t go back? when he shows up for the flight.
    [/quote]
    I have to work on my double-quotting responses. I don’t think any of the O6 knew about that. He told that only to Locke, just before turning the FDW.

  447. katesFriend says:

    [quote]
    You are correct, it was in the obit. However it was never stated for the average viewer.[/quote]

    But it seems really silly for Jack to make such a big deal about it, like he didn’t know! And for Ben to say, yeah, they don’t print stuff like that in obits (paraphrasing)

    I know the casual viewer wouldn’t know, but for those of us who did, it seems stupid to pretend Jack didn’t know

  448. RGS says:

    [quote comment="315648"]You are correct, it was in the obit. However it was never stated for the average viewer.

    But it seems really silly for Jack to make such a big deal about it, like he didn’t know! And for Ben to say, yeah, they don’t print stuff like that in obits (paraphrasing)

    I know the casual viewer wouldn’t know, but for those of us who did, it seems stupid to pretend Jack didn’t know[/quote]

    Was it explicitly revealed in an episode that Bentham committed suicide, or was this something we got out of super scrutiny of screencaps? If it was the latter, the writer’s can claim that it wasn’t really in the obit, information was just made up…I’m not sure but in the screencap scrutiny I thought the name was different from Jeremy Bentham.

  449. Missy says:

    Now that we’ve seen how people can get to the island, do you think the reason Alpert and Ethan drugged Juliette for her submarine voyage was so she would be unconsious for her “arrival” and therefore would not notice the flash of light? She did grab her head when she came to like the losties after each flash. Or do you think rigamorole was a special case pertaining to the O6? Seems Alpert and Ben have come and gone many times to have to recreate scenarios to come and go….

  450. wingman says:

    LMAO @ Jin getting his 2nd cliffhanger ending of the season^^…

  451. Hammer says:

    I’m gonna pull the dead horse from the TPID thread. I just watched Deja Vu, the movie about an ATF agent that time travels to stop the murder of a women and terrorist bombing of a ferry. She dies the first time around, he goes back in time, creating two of himself. The ‘new’ him in the past dies saving her, and the original ‘him’ goes on living in the same time frame as when the second him dies and that’s how he was able to actually change the past/future. So that’s the cop out, the second him dies to change the rules. The first time around he gets a phone call from the coroner “You got to see this.” and it’s the girl, what is assumed (they didn’t show it, but the scientist that sends him to the future aludes to it) the second time around he gets a call from the coroner, it’s the second him.

    If D&C are going to use this…my theory goes up in smoke. LOL. But, my theory that Dan already was in the 70′s to create his book is still alive, but now he travels back again, creating two of himself, sacrificing one of himself to change the rules….

  452. PJSander says:

    Oh golly, Hammer, I hope not. I can’t say for SURE, but I seem to remember D&C promising that they weren’t going to have multiple Marty McFly guys running around. Course, then again, they also very EARLY on said that LOST was not about time-travel. At the TIME, it was true. But I DO know that they have repeatedly said this is NOT Back to the Future time traveling.

  453. Hammer says:

    Me too PJ, I want my original theory to pan out. :)

  454. lost4ever says:

    I watched the same movie on FX tonight Hammer and was wondering the same thing. That’s the problem I have with time-travrl, I find the RULES from different shows and movies confusing.

    I have also heard them say that PJ, but what did they mean by it? I forget. Was it that there couldn’t be multiple futures?

  455. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315705"]I watched the same movie on FX tonight Hammer and was wondering the same thing. That’s the problem I have with time-travrl, I find the RULES from different shows and movies confusing.

    I have also heard them say that PJ, but what did they mean by it? I forget. Was it that there couldn’t be multiple futures?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I remember it as no multiple futures for fans to keep track of, but I can’t find it.

  456. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315687"]

    If D&C are going to use this…my theory goes up in smoke. LOL. But, my theory that Dan already was in the 70′s to create his book is still alive, but now he travels back again, creating two of himself, sacrificing one of himself to change the rules….[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Hammer, I think I understand what you are saying, but here’s the problem (maybe!): In the movie you referred to, the man who time traveled stayed in his own timeline the whole time, and only a COPY of himself went to the past. That’s how the current time line version could remain unscathed by the experience (the copy died). In our LOST version, the current time line version (in your theory Dan) goes back in time, meets his earlier self – but BOTH versions are in the past at the same time. So, the younger or older version may die trying to change things, but there is no guarantee WHICH version will live (if either). More could end up changing than was expected and have potentially catastrophic consequences. Oh well, on second thought, maybe it wouldn’t make much difference!

  457. Hammer says:

    Rita. IMO it doesn’t matter if he’s a copy or the real thing in the past. Either way, there were two of him in the past because he didn’t do the LOST concious trick. Also, the end result was he changed the major events of what happened while all the minor details stayed the same. Kind of opposite of what LOST has been showing us….little things don’t matter but major events will course correct and happen.

    Side note:I thought it was a good movie until the end. They were pushing the ‘can’t change things’ rule and using evidence of that concept the whole time….then bang….he travels creating a second him, sacrifices himself, changes only the MAJOR things, all the little stuff is the same….and his original self is STILL alive….didn’t like the end.

    Ironic part….she ends up living this time around (opposite of Rousseau) and obviously remembers the man telling her that he’s from the future to savesher….but the original him meets her afterward and doesn’t remember doing all that stuff because it was a ‘second’ him doing it and that version of him died.

  458. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315751"]Rita. IMO it doesn’t matter if he’s a copy or the real thing in the past. Either way, there were two of him in the past because he didn’t do the LOST concious trick. Also, the end result was he changed the major events of what happened while all the minor details stayed the same. Kind of opposite of what LOST has been showing us….little things don’t matter but major events will course correct and happen.

    Side note:I thought it was a good movie until the end. They were pushing the ‘can’t change things’ rule and using evidence of that concept the whole time….then bang….he travels creating a second him, sacrifices himself, changes only the MAJOR things, all the little stuff is the same….and his original self is STILL alive….didn’t like the end.

    Ironic part….she ends up living this time around (opposite of Rousseau) and obviously remembers the man telling her that he’s from the future to savesher….but the original him meets her afterward and doesn’t remember doing all that stuff because it was a ‘second’ him doing it and that version of him died.[/quote]
    ________________________________
    So that brings us back to our recurring question: What happens if the old self meets the young self? The old self would of course understand what is going on, but the young self would understandably be a bit freaked out. Then, what happens if the young self is the one who dies? Does that negate the existance of the old self? Or if the old self dies, does that become a loop of sorts, that ALWAYS happens, (you live – as younger self – until you age to older self – then go back to younger self as older self – and die, then as younger self, you live until …) Yikes!

  459. Rita says:

    One issue about the time travel thing that has always bothered me – traveling to the future. Can they do that? When Sawyer et al were in the dug out canoes with the Ajira Airways water bottles, it seemed that they were in the future. Here’s my problem: When little Rat Eloise traveled to the future and learned the maze (consciouness travel), when she came back to the current time, already knowing the maze (having learned it in the future) she DIED of TD. Therefore, she never was alive in the part of the future where she had learned the maze – she was dead so Dan never actually taught her. Her future where she learned the maze was therefore an alternate timeline from the one that actually happened. I know D&C have said this would not be about alternate timelines for us to keep track of, but as they have shown, there exists the possibility of alternates all the same. Eloise changed the future by dying in the past (so to speak) and others may be able to do the same, with or without course correction.

  460. Tasha says:

    If they live in Dharma for awhile, and with all this time travel…..I think I am going to watch this show backwards, from the last episode to the first episode….and then maybe it will all make sense!

    The very last episode of season 6 will have a line at the end…
    “For all you viewers who just don’t get it, watch backwards from the last episode and then it will all make sense!”

    Deja Vu….is that the movie where the boat blows up at the beginning???

  461. Miss Kim says:

    Whew! I did it. Got through all the posts. Good theories everyone! I agree w/ Tasha and Rita and emit……somthin’ was definitely up w/ Kate. She really didn’t look right….I need to re-watch but I think that Jack really may have been the only one who actually interacted w/ her. Good points were made about this…is she dead? Undead? Imagined? The whole thing was just plain strange…..

  462. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315431"][quote comment="315146"]We also got the BIG reveal as to why Jack’s dad was wearing white shoes. There were numerous questions about this over the past years. At least Darlton is trying to satisfy us Lost addicts.[/quote]
    ////////////////
    having not watched 316 yet i can only summise, with only 357 posts before this to go on. so here goes… one white training shoe was hung on a bamboo cane in the forest ,just after the jacks eye scene…..i dont think the purge will happen again because dan and charlotte disarmed the dharma station where goodwin worked making the gas[i forget the name of the
    place?].were all the passengers on 315 present in locks dream ,when he went into the sweat lodge? …can someone remind me how sawyer got shot in the shoulder on the way back with ana lucia s party after him and jin were captured?..that may have some bearing on who was shot in the canoe by juliet ???. What im getting at is …instead of traveling back and forth in time, perhaps parallel is a better way of describing the whole situation ? when the original crash occured ,i think they all should have died . But..desmond caused a glitch , at that very moment above the island which caused the plane and its occupants to remain suspended in time and space ,making them alive when they are all supposed to be dead . so long as they stay on the island . once they leave, the balance is upset . thats why they have to go back. desmond is the only person to have arrived on the island by accident . he wasnt looking for the island . his boat was intact . He can come and go as he pleases [by boat].he is probably the keyholder in all of this.i am definately behind the hinduism theory. i will see on sunday night. course i could be a talking a load of old cobblers!
    ps . Absolutley not’ DUKE’ for hall monitor… far too insultive.no offence. thats like having me as a “spelling and puncuation monitor” lol[/quote]
    ////////////////////////
    scratch all that. Watched lost tonight . Im totally lost! I dont know whats going on….

  463. londonboy says:

    Finally. Honestly, it’s hell waiting the four extra days before England gets Lost and avoiding this site like the plague. Now, I’m going to go back in time myself and start reading the…deep breath…463 comments from when this thread began. Excellent episode btw. My wife and I had many ‘ooh’ moments.

    From watching the episode, obviously.

  464. fitty says:

    I’ve noticed a trend in this season, and it is that all these ‘ooh’ moments, as londonboy calls them, are totally reliant on just “OMG its Danielle” etc. I am interested to see if they go back to young charles whitmore.

    Hopefully the next ep. will have take the plot to a new level!

  465. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315782"]somthin’ was definitely up w/ Kate. She really didn’t look right….I need to re-watch but I think that Jack really may have been the only one who actually interacted w/ her. Good points were made about this…is she dead? Undead? Imagined? The whole thing was just plain strange…..[/quote]

    I understand why some people think that something was weird about Kate, but honestly I chalked it up to her giving up “her” son, for what she imagines might be forever. If I were forced to do something like that, I might be morose and zombie-like.

    It’s the same thing I said last week, and that someone else mentioned this week… how can Sun leave her baby? She has believed (and reconciled the idea) that Jin is dead – for three years. How could she walk away from her baby on a CHANCE she could be with her husband again? That does NOT, at its core, follow the “natural” parental instinct, in my mind. In MOST cases (unless addiction is involved), a woman asked to choose between her husband or children, will choose her children.

    Kate is not genetically tied to Aaron, but has been his parent for three years. They are bonded. For whatever reason (Claire visits, promise to Sawyer, Ben forces her), she has had to turn away from Aaron. The “deadness” that we see would not be an unnatural reaction to giving Aaron up, IMO.

    : ) P

  466. Andy says:

    [quote comment="315401"]okay, so…just a thought…

    IF it turns out that Ben has gone to the marina/dock and killed Penny and/or Charlie and/or Desmond…can we FINALLY officially put to the rest the notion that Ben is a good guy?? haha ;)[/quote]

    First post – love reading all your comments, you guys really are hardcore fans! On the Ben killing Penny theme….. didn’t Whitmore, when Des asked him for Faraday’s mum, warn him not to get involved as Penny would get hurt….? Seem to remember this, might signal bad thinhs to come for the beautiful Penny?! I reckon Des will hurry bk to Island to get revenge……!

  467. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315789"]Finally. Honestly, it’s hell waiting the four extra days before England gets Lost and avoiding this site like the plague. Now, I’m going to go back in time myself and start reading the…deep breath…463 comments from when this thread began. Excellent episode btw. My wife and I had many ‘ooh’ moments.

    From watching the episode, obviously.[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////////////
    Tell me about it .I find if i start reading the posts as soon as lost is aired on wednesdays in usa, then by the time its on over here , your ready to post. Unfortunatly , its always more or less in the 400+ post mark . At least you,ll know if a subjects been covered.Otherwise if you leave the reading until after the airing over here,its a lot of ‘reviseing’ before you have caught up. I know it seems spoilerish to us . But thats the only way you can keep up .Also,I try and post before the airing if its about a general subject . It helps me keep my hand in.Ive trailed behind since before s4 . twice as much work for us GMTers.lol

  468. gmta leah says:

    I think that Elouis hawkins was describing danial faraday when she was telling the group about a man developing a way of detecting where the island is ‘going to be…..that writing on the blackboard was the same writing danial had on his board in his lab at oxford .,and his journal is the same.
    All he would have to do ,is skip forward ,find a change in the earths crust , record it . skip back in time, plot the co ordinates, cross ref with airline flight plans …hey presto….?! Which leads me to think ….the original 815 flight was staged just like the flight to guam. thats why cindi was planted there , cos she had done it before. and also ,all the survivors were not sat in the front of the plane originly,were they ? where was libby, ana lucia,eko and bernard sat?

  469. gmta leah says:

    I think that Elouis hawkins was describing danial faraday when she was telling the group about a man developing a way of detecting where the island is ‘going to be…..that writing on the blackboard was the same writing danial had on his board in his lab at oxford .,and his journal is the same.
    All he would have to do ,is skip forward ,find a change in the earths crust , record it . skip back in time, plot the co ordinates, cross ref with airline flight plans …hey presto….?! Which leads me to think ….the original 815 flight was staged just like the flight to guam. thats why cindi was planted there , cos she had done it before. and also ,all the survivors were not sat in the front of the plane originly,were they ? where was libby, ana lucia,eko and bernard sat?

  470. gmta leah says:

    I can actually see where the storyline is going …but ive jumped to conclusions before .and been dead wrong so im just going to wait.

  471. gmta leah says:

    WHY HAVE MY COMMENTS POSTED TWICE?” i didnt touch nothin onest guv”

  472. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315639"][quote comment="315636"]
    How come no one said; HEY, I thought you couldn’t go back? when he shows up for the flight.
    [quote comment="315637"]
    Ben told that only to Locke, just before turning the FDW.
    I am confused about this — didn’t the obit say he died from suicide. Why then did Jack acted all surprised Locke died from suicide? I mean, somehow we all knew it was a suicide from the obit right?
    [/quote]
    You are correct, it was in the obit. However it was never stated for the average viewer.[/quote]
    Hmmmmmm?? I thought locke[mr benthem ]died falling out of a hotel window????

  473. MissKim says:

    PJ: I understand exactly what you are saying….and the loss of a child–for whatever reason–should make a parent seem “out of it”….everything combined mad it seem kind of weird to me though–the noise Jack heard which alerted him to Kate being in house was unusual….especially since she was laying on the bed when he found her. Also, imo, Kate was REALLY passionate for a parent in mourning. I need to re-watch and see if anyone else besides Jack (Lapidus maybe)noticed her/looked at her/exchanged glances/whatever with Kate. Hurley surely saw her after they were off the plane/on the island. It may be nothing at all….just thought it seemed a little….weird.

  474. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315801"]
    Hmmmmmm?? I thought locke[mr benthem ]died falling out of a hotel window????[/quote]
    Locke was paralyzed when he was pushed out of the window by his presumably father, Anthony Cooper.

    I agree with your point about Kate, PJ, nothing too suspicious there. She was raising a baby for the first 3 years of his life. Some sort of depression would have to follow. But not sure how I feel about your point on Sun, but then again I am not a mother. I also have not LOST a spouse.

  475. Tasha says:

    I am really not sure about the Kate thing. I thought it was still a little off. The chords to When the Saints Go Marching In. The noise that Jack heard and she was just laying there. BUT…I have never been in that position so i don’t know. It just seemed kind of eerie to me. Like when we saw Claire in cabin fever. I think if she is that upset to act like that, then something BAD happened to Aaron, not just that she gave him to Claire’s mom. Hopefully we will find out soon!

  476. Hman says:

    Hey was this the first episode that the white sneakers Jack puts on Christians body have been talked about? I did some investigating and he is wearing white sneakers in “The Beginning of the End” when he appears to Hugo in Jacob’s cabin. Does this prove that Jacob is alive rather then an apparition??? Your thoughts???

  477. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315340"][quote comment="315286"]More thoughts about the plane “crash”:

    It may still be possible that the plane crashed on the island. Yes, we saw no evidence of it, no wreckage on the island, but the plane crashed in 2007/2008. When we see Jack, Hurley and Kate back on the island it’s the 70′s or 80′s. So if the plane itself doesn’t time travel, there’d be no wreckage on the island at the time we saw it.

    On the other hand, if there were no crash, what is the reaction of the others on the plane – 5 (or more) passengers (and 5 of the O6!) just disappeared right in front of our eyes. How does that story get explained to the world (or covered up)?[/quote]

    ===============================
    I believe the guitar is the element that tells us that the plane did crashed since lock and charlie find the guitar case in season 1, nearby the place where jack finds the coffin (he thought it was his fathers, might it be that it was John’s coffin all the time???????.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Back when we were trying to decide who was in the coffin we compared screnecaps of the two. They were not the same coffin.

  478. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315395"]1954 – Widmore is an Other on the Island
    Adam and Eve die about this time?
    (based on Jack’s observation)

    1956 – Locke born off-island

    1960s – Alpert tests Locke as a child
    Ben born off-island

    1970s – Ben comes to island
    Penny born on island?
    Charlotte born on island?
    *Losties unite*

    1984? – Widmore leaves island
    (been searching for island for about 20 years?)

    1988 – Rousseau arrives on island
    Alex is born

    1992 – The purge
    Ben leads the Others

    1994 – Penny meets Des off island
    Walt is born

    1996 – Des leaps to this year and
    1) Talks with Widmore after he purchases journal
    2) Finds Penny and tells her about the phone call
    3) Visits Faraday at Oxford and Faraday succeeds in rat experiment

    2001/2002 – Libby gives Des boat
    Jack meets Des at the stadium
    Des lands on island

    Juliet arrives on island?

    2004 – Oceanic Plane crashes
    Widmore Finds island
    O6 leave island
    *Sawyer and gang travel to the 70s*

    2005 – Ben lands in Tunisia and later finds
    out O6 left island too; visits Sayid

    2007 – Des visits Widmore to get Faraday’s
    mothers address
    *Jack and gang go back to island (to the 70s?)*[/quote]
    Penny was born in 1979.

  479. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315395"]1954 – Widmore is an Other on the Island
    Adam and Eve die about this time?
    (based on Jack’s observation)

    1956 – Locke born off-island

    1960s – Alpert tests Locke as a child
    Ben born off-island

    1970s – Ben comes to island
    Penny born on island?
    Charlotte born on island?
    *Losties unite*

    1984? – Widmore leaves island
    (been searching for island for about 20 years?)

    1988 – Rousseau arrives on island
    Alex is born

    1992 – The purge
    Ben leads the Others

    1994 – Penny meets Des off island
    Walt is born

    1996 – Des leaps to this year and
    1) Talks with Widmore after he purchases journal
    2) Finds Penny and tells her about the phone call
    3) Visits Faraday at Oxford and Faraday succeeds in rat experiment

    2001/2002 – Libby gives Des boat
    Jack meets Des at the stadium
    Des lands on island

    Juliet arrives on island?

    2004 – Oceanic Plane crashes
    Widmore Finds island
    O6 leave island
    *Sawyer and gang travel to the 70s*

    2005 – Ben lands in Tunisia and later finds
    out O6 left island too; visits Sayid

    2007 – Des visits Widmore to get Faraday’s
    mothers address
    *Jack and gang go back to island (to the 70s?)*[/quote]
    Charlotte was born in 1979.

  480. Circus Mom says:

    Charlotte was born in 1979. Not sure when Penny was born. That was a typo.

  481. duke says:

    We presume that Christian has been on the island before. Could he have been used in the same way Locke is being used. Had to die to help the island. Could his relationship with his son be somewhat explained by his past with the island? We know that he has some kind of faith by his talks with Jack when Sarah got hurt. Just a thought. I think we can agree that Christian has unknown ties to the island because he seems VERY crucial to the islands survival.

  482. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="315857"]We presume that Christian has been on the island before. Could he have been used in the same way Locke is being used. Had to die to help the island. Could his relationship with his son be somewhat explained by his past with the island? We know that he has some kind of faith by his talks with Jack when Sarah got hurt. Just a thought. I think we can agree that Christian has unknown ties to the island because he seems VERY crucial to the islands survival.[/quote]

    **************************

    I was thinking that his “job” was to get Jack to the island. In doing so, he proved his “worthiness” and is now a spokesperson for Jacob. Not sure about how long he may have been on the island or when, though?

  483. TanziTwo says:

    [quote comment="315844"]Charlotte was born in 1979. Not sure when Penny was born. That was a typo.[/quote]
    How about this then? Penny and Charlotte are twins from 79. Penny went with papa off-island, Charlotte said with mum.

  484. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315554"]I am so into the show and this board and while all of these posts are far more thought out than mine will ever be two things

    1) Best line of the night

    Jack to Ben: how are you reading?

    Ben: My Mother taught me

    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    The steering on the Black rock would have been a wheele of about 4 feet in diameter with spokes comming off about 9 inches from a 2 1/2 foot diameter hub. They would likely be turned wood with knobs on the ends.

    The FDW was a 8-10 foot diameter wheele with a hub of around 5-6 feet and 2-3 foot flat spokes.

    I also beleive the FDW predates the Black Rock by quite some time.

  485. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315859"][quote comment="315844"]Charlotte was born in 1979. Not sure when Penny was born. That was a typo.[/quote]
    How about this then? Penny and Charlotte are twins from 79. Penny went with papa off-island, Charlotte said with mum.[/quote]
    That would make Penny 15 when she met Desmond at the monastary and she was much older than that.

  486. londonboy says:

    We found out that the island is always moving in space and time, that’s how it wasn’t found. But Hawking, as I think Frank said, didn’t suggest that moving the wheel has changed this.

    Does this mean, then, that the wheel, or whatever it connects to, ‘protects’ the island from the movements in time, so people on the island experience life normally, either in real (off-island) time or a slower version of it? And when Ben moves the wheel, they’re then experiencing the natural movements of the island.

    The lack of movement with the flashes by the Others maybe kiboshes that argument, but otherwise it seems to make sense.

    And how did Widmore’s freighter stay close to the island if it’s always moving – it stayed for a long time, didn’t it?

    And I thought Ben’s reaction to Hawking’s lying comment was interesting. He may have been reacting to the slur, wondering if he is losing the faith of his superiors. Or was the question more relevant? Has he been in this room before and is he not meant to know about it? And does Hawkings know?

    I still really liked this ep.

  487. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315864"][quote comment="315554"]I am so into the show and this board and while all of these posts are far more thought out than mine will ever be two things

    1) Best line of the night

    Jack to Ben: how are you reading?

    Ben: My Mother taught me

    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    The steering on the Black rock would have been a wheele of about 4 feet in diameter with spokes comming off about 9 inches from a 2 1/2 foot diameter hub. They would likely be turned wood with knobs on the ends.

    The FDW was a 8-10 foot diameter wheele with a hub of around 5-6 feet and 2-3 foot flat spokes.

    I also beleive the FDW predates the Black Rock by quite some time.[/quote]
    ///////////////
    i think the island moving wheel is the black rocks wheel… But a Donkey Wheel.the one
    thats used to hoist sails or draw in the anchor.

  488. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315875"][quote comment="315864"][quote comment="315554"]I am so into the show and this board and while all of these posts are far more thought out than mine will ever be two things

    1) Best line of the night

    Jack to Ben: how are you reading?

    Ben: My Mother taught me

    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    The steering on the Black rock would have been a wheele of about 4 feet in diameter with spokes comming off about 9 inches from a 2 1/2 foot diameter hub. They would likely be turned wood with knobs on the ends.

    The FDW was a 8-10 foot diameter wheele with a hub of around 5-6 feet and 2-3 foot flat spokes.

    I also beleive the FDW predates the Black Rock by quite some time.[/quote]
    ///////////////
    i think the island moving wheel is the black rocks wheel… But a Donkey Wheel.the one
    thats used to hoist sails or draw in the anchor.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I admit it could be one of those but I still think it predates the Black Rock.

    I also did some more research and some ships steering wheels were much larger. Had only seen the 4 -5 foot ones at the local maritime mueseum.

  489. Jen says:

    I have been looking for a thread that talks about the episode when Ben was at the church & Mrs. Hawkings enters the room & she issues the 70 hour warning. Ben called her Penny Locke? Does anyone remember what episode that was in? Can someone direct me to that discussion or tell me some ideas that were shared. I tried to find it in the archives with no luck.

  490. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315879"]I have been looking for a thread that talks about the episode when Ben was at the church & Mrs. Hawkings enters the room & she issues the 70 hour warning. Ben called her Penny Locke? Does anyone remember what episode that was in? Can someone direct me to that discussion or tell me some ideas that were shared. I tried to find it in the archives with no luck.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Jen, that was the season opener, “The Lie” and here is the thread for that:

    http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/lost-season-5-premiere-destiny-calls#comment-308175

    Enjoy!

  491. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315879"]I have been looking for a thread that talks about the episode when Ben was at the church & Mrs. Hawkings enters the room & she issues the 70 hour warning. Ben called her Penny Locke? Does anyone remember what episode that was in? Can someone direct me to that discussion or tell me some ideas that were shared. I tried to find it in the archives with no luck.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Oh, and he didn’t call her Penny Locke, he said “any luck?”

  492. Jen says:

    [quote comment="315880"][quote comment="315879"]I have been looking for a thread that talks about the episode when Ben was at the church & Mrs. Hawkings enters the room & she issues the 70 hour warning. Ben called her Penny Locke? Does anyone remember what episode that was in? Can someone direct me to that discussion or tell me some ideas that were shared. I tried to find it in the archives with no luck.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Jen, that was the season opener, “The Lie” and here is the thread for that:

    http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/lost-season-5-premiere-destiny-calls#comment-308175

    Enjoy![/quote]
    ________________________________
    Rita, thank you

  493. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315879"]I have been looking for a thread that talks about the episode when Ben was at the church & Mrs. Hawkings enters the room & she issues the 70 hour warning. Ben called her Penny Locke? Does anyone remember what episode that was in? Can someone direct me to that discussion or tell me some ideas that were shared. I tried to find it in the archives with no luck.[/quote]
    You can also check out lostpedia.com for general answers. Here is a recap of that episode.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lie

    The “LIE” was actually the second episode after “Because You Left.”

  494. Christie says:

    I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the opening and ending scenes are different. When Jack dives in the water in the first scene, he has to help Hurley and let him know the water is shallow enough to stand. The second time, Hurley is already standing when Jack reaches him. Also, the dialogue between Kate and Jack is slightly different. And according to lostpedia, the handwriting in the suicide note is slightly different as well(although I didn’t notice that myself). I don’t think we would have seen this same sequence twice in one episode if the differences did not me something.

    Also, in the pilot episode, Jack says to Kate that he doesn’t remember the plane crashing. Kate tells him that she remembers the whole thing. This time, none of them remember anything. Does this perhaps mean that the Flight 815 crash was Kate’s first time to the island, but not Jack’s?

  495. Christie says:

    I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the opening and ending scenes are different. When Jack dives in the water in the first scene, he has to help Hurley and let him know the water is shallow enough to stand. The second time, Hurley is already standing when Jack reaches him. Also, the dialogue between Kate and Jack is slightly different. And according to lostpedia, the handwriting in the suicide note is slightly different as well(although I didn’t notice that myself). I don’t think we would have seen this same sequence twice in one episode if the differences did not me something.

    Also, in the pilot episode, Jack says to Kate that he doesn’t remember the plane crashing. Kate tells him that she remembers the whole thing. This time, none of them remember anything. Does this perhaps mean that the Flight 815 crash was Kate’s first time to the island, but not Jack’s?

  496. Frank says:

    I watched the episode a few more times over the weekend and like it better. It’s one of those that if you watch it over and over, you like it more and more. Sometimes, the first time you see an ep, it’s just phenomenol. I didn’t feel that way first time watching 316.

    Christie – i think you are onto something. If you notice, Pilot episode and 316 opening are exactly the same – Jack’s eye opening as he’s lying in the jungle. I thought that was very strange – and implies that Jack arrived on the island differently than others did on O815.

    Additionally, I am more confused than ever regarding the relationships of Ben, Eloise, and with whom they are working. Charles Widmore told Desmond where to find Eloise and Ben is working with her (or is she not working with him?) Implication is that Eloise and Widmore might be working together and if Ben and Eloise are, then who are the allies and who are the opponents?

    Also, I suspect that the ‘very intelligent man’ who came up with the equations to predict ‘where the island will be in time’ is not Daniel Faraday. If that were true, wouldn’t that be one of those time paradoxes? Rather, I think the man to which Eloise referred might be Widmore.

    For those of you who don’t know (maybe it’s not on your local ABC affilites) but Lost is being replayed every Saturday night back-to-back episodes starting at 11:35pm till 1:30am. It’s great watching a new episode during the week and watching old ones on the weekend. In fact, the last one played over the weekend was ‘Live Together Die Alone part 1′ the season 2 finale. Some very interesting stuff in there with Desmond.

  497. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315888"]I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the opening and ending scenes are different. When Jack dives in the water in the first scene, he has to help Hurley and let him know the water is shallow enough to stand. The second time, Hurley is already standing when Jack reaches him. Also, the dialogue between Kate and Jack is slightly different. And according to lostpedia, the handwriting in the suicide note is slightly different as well(although I didn’t notice that myself). I don’t think we would have seen this same sequence twice in one episode if the differences did not me something.[/quote]

    I noticed differences, but I chalked it up to storytelling.

    [quote comment="315888"]
    Also, in the pilot episode, Jack says to Kate that he doesn’t remember the plane crashing. Kate tells him that she remembers the whole thing. This time, none of them remember anything. Does this perhaps mean that the Flight 815 crash was Kate’s first time to the island, but not Jack’s?[/quote]

    Good catch!

    : ) P

  498. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315888"]I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the opening and ending scenes are different. When Jack dives in the water in the first scene, he has to help Hurley and let him know the water is shallow enough to stand. The second time, Hurley is already standing when Jack reaches him. Also, the dialogue between Kate and Jack is slightly different. And according to lostpedia, the handwriting in the suicide note is slightly different as well(although I didn’t notice that myself). I don’t think we would have seen this same sequence twice in one episode if the differences did not me something.
    I couldn’t find anything in lostpedia about the handwrighting being different. Do you have a link to the page?
    Also, in the pilot episode, Jack says to Kate that he doesn’t remember the plane crashing. Kate tells him that she remembers the whole thing. This time, none of them remember anything. Does this perhaps mean that the Flight 815 crash was Kate’s first time to the island, but not Jack’s?[/quote]
    I think the second time we saw them landing on the island was the same as the first but they edited out much of it to get to the Jin reveal.

  499. wally p says:

    [quote comment="315888"]I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the opening and ending scenes are different. When Jack dives in the water in the first scene, he has to help Hurley and let him know the water is shallow enough to stand. The second time, Hurley is already standing when Jack reaches him. Also, the dialogue between Kate and Jack is slightly different. And according to lostpedia, the handwriting in the suicide note is slightly different as well(although I didn’t notice that myself). I don’t think we would have seen this same sequence twice in one episode if the differences did not me something.

    Also, in the pilot episode, Jack says to Kate that he doesn’t remember the plane crashing. Kate tells him that she remembers the whole thing. This time, none of them remember anything. Does this perhaps mean that the Flight 815 crash was Kate’s first time to the island, but not Jack’s?[/quote]
    ******************
    Good stuff! I always believed that Jack had been there before 815, I only saw 316 once, but now I def need to see it again, if it plays out differently the first time and the second time they show it then something WEIRD definately went down in those 30 hours!

  500. ESB says:

    i was under the same impression as Circus Mom. I thought the beginning was just edited the second time to save on the length of time that the scene ran – condensing, so to speak…are you guys saying that there are actual differences that can’t be explained by editing?

  501. duke says:

    [quote comment="315879"]I have been looking for a thread that talks about the episode when Ben was at the church & Mrs. Hawkings enters the room & she issues the 70 hour warning. Ben called her Penny Locke? Does anyone remember what episode that was in? Can someone direct me to that discussion or tell me some ideas that were shared. I tried to find it in the archives with no luck.[/quot

    I believe she said any luck not Penny Locke.

  502. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315905"]
    I believe she said any luck not Penny Locke.[/quote]
    See post 493.

  503. neofunk says:

    Hi all,
    I am new to this but there is defo something up with Kate,others have already said how frank did not even look her way on the plane and also hurley on the plane or when they land and her apparant zombie state etc.
    But as I thought when i looked Up the transcript she does not converse with anyone else the entire episode and also when Desmond confronts Hawking he says ” I came here to deliver a message. Daniel Faraday–your son–sent me here. He wanted me to tell you that he and all the people on the Island need your help. He said that only you could help them. He didn’t say Jack. He didn’t say Sun. He didn’t say Ben. He said you.” NO Kate even though she was standing there i think this is very deliberate it is like Jack was the only how could see her.That’s my two cents lol.
    Hi all from Ireland

  504. osnap says:

    5) We never got a good look at the back of the plane – because the other passengers are all “red shirts” or because we aren’t meant to see… Aaron back there perhaps?
    _____________

    I agree, there must be other important people on the plane. I was thinking about how the people on the Ajira flight are recreating the situations of flight 815, and it seems like:

    John Locke takes the place of Christian Shepard — dead, in a coffin
    Sayid takes the place of Kate — in handcuffs with a guard
    Ben takes the place of Hurley — rushes onto the plane at the last moment, and is leaking bodily fluids
    Kate takes the place of Claire — if you assume that Kate is pregnant
    Hurley takes the place of Charlie — carrying a guitar case
    Frank the pilot takes the place of the pilot of 815 — because Frank was supposed to be flying 815 that day
    Jack still seems to be Jack — in both flights he was travelling with a coffin

    but who does Sun take the place of, and where are neo- Boone, Shannon, Jin, Bernard, Rose, Libby, Ana Lucia, Eko, Sawyer, etc.?

    and what if these people are on the plane:
    Aaron takes the place of John Locke — Locke had to be carried onto 815 by the flight crew; and Aaron would probably be carried onto a plane
    Desmond and his son Charlie take the place of Michael and Walt — father/son pair

  505. neofunk says:

    Sorry guys just remembered Kate pissed off at the end of this place is death she was not in the room with Desmond but the rest still holds the show is playing tricks with my memory lol

  506. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="315875"][quote comment="315864"][quote comment="315554"]I am so into the show and this board and while all of these posts are far more thought out than mine will ever be two things

    1) Best line of the night

    Jack to Ben: how are you reading?

    Ben: My Mother taught me

    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    The steering on the Black rock would have been a wheele of about 4 feet in diameter with spokes comming off about 9 inches from a 2 1/2 foot diameter hub. They would likely be turned wood with knobs on the ends.

    The FDW was a 8-10 foot diameter wheele with a hub of around 5-6 feet and 2-3 foot flat spokes.

    I also beleive the FDW predates the Black Rock by quite some time.[/quote]
    ///////////////
    i think the island moving wheel is the black rocks wheel… But a Donkey Wheel.the one
    thats used to hoist sails or draw in the anchor.[/quote]

    _____________

    I think it represents the BIBLE WHEEL!

  507. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315911"]Hi all,
    I am new to this but there is defo something up with Kate,others have already said how frank did not even look her way on the plane and also hurley on the plane or when they land and her apparant zombie state etc.
    But as I thought when i looked Up the transcript she does not converse with anyone else the entire episode and also when Desmond confronts Hawking he says ” I came here to deliver a message. Daniel Faraday–your son–sent me here. He wanted me to tell you that he and all the people on the Island need your help. He said that only you could help them. He didn’t say Jack. He didn’t say Sun. He didn’t say Ben. He said you.” NO Kate even though she was standing there i think this is very deliberate it is like Jack was the only how could see her.That’s my two cents lol.
    Hi all from Ireland[/quote]
    +++++++
    Frank also didn’t mention Sun. The camera panned over Kate and Sun but Frank never mentioned their names.

    You caught yoursell of Kate not being there with Mrs. H.

  508. Kyle says:

    Who is the man that gives his condolences to Jack at the airport for losing a friend?
    - Ana Lucia’s Brother
    - Works for Charles Whitmore?

  509. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315920"][quote comment="315875"][quote comment="315864"][quote comment="315554"]I am so into the show and this board and while all of these posts are far more thought out than mine will ever be two things

    1) Best line of the night

    Jack to Ben: how are you reading?

    Ben: My Mother taught me

    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    The steering on the Black rock would have been a wheele of about 4 feet in diameter with spokes comming off about 9 inches from a 2 1/2 foot diameter hub. They would likely be turned wood with knobs on the ends.

    The FDW was a 8-10 foot diameter wheele with a hub of around 5-6 feet and 2-3 foot flat spokes.

    I also beleive the FDW predates the Black Rock by quite some time.[/quote]
    ///////////////
    i think the island moving wheel is the black rocks wheel… But a Donkey Wheel.the one
    thats used to hoist sails or draw in the anchor.[/quote]

    _____________

    I think it represents the BIBLE WHEEL![/quote]
    +++++++

    I think it is more likely that it represents the Dharma wheele with the 8 spokes.

  510. fitty says:

    [quote comment="315922"]Who is the man that gives his condolences to Jack at the airport for losing a friend?
    - Ana Lucia’s Brother
    - Works for Charles Whitmore?[/quote]

    I do not believe we know that yet, but it is important to note that he set across from Hurley on the plane which has led me to believe that Hurley is up to no good.

    Also, how is it possible that Jack has been to the island before? Furthermore, how do you know this?

  511. Kyle says:

    [quote comment="315924"][quote comment="315922"]Who is the man that gives his condolences to Jack at the airport for losing a friend?
    - Ana Lucia’s Brother
    - Works for Charles Whitmore?[/quote]

    I do not believe we know that yet, but it is important to note that he set across from Hurley on the plane which has led me to believe that Hurley is up to no good.

    Also, how is it possible that Jack has been to the island before? Furthermore, how do you know this?[/quote]

    I don’t think that Jack has been to the Island previous to the first time. I do believe that Jack’s father has been on the island before.
    Jacks father was in a coffin and when they crashed Jack started seeing them as if he was alive—some what similar to Locke. Maybe other people on the plane are some how tied to Locke, seeing the Claire and Jack were to his father

  512. wally p says:

    [/quote]

    Also, how is it possible that Jack has been to the island before? Furthermore, how do you know this?[/quote]

    The very first scene of the show is Jack waking up on the ground and running to the plane. Always seemed to me like he wasn’t really on the plane- everyone else is on the beach with the wreckage, except Jack, whos 100 paces in the jungle.

    In this ep. he wakes up in the exact same way. So it seems that 815 was also a recreation of another flight, …this time none of them remember the crash. On 815 Jack was the only one who didn’t remember the crash.

    If Jack didn’t have something to do with the island before 815, then maybe he took his fathers place. Maybe we will see an ep. with Christian waking up with the dialating eyeball, a nip in his pocket and in the same spot… I dunno. I guess I always figured that Jack is meant to be on the island, but always tries to get away… then ends up back, tries to get off… ends up back etc. Like a lost soul or something… but maybe not, just the way I had always thought it in his case.

  513. Kyle says:

    [quote comment="315934"][/quote]

    Also, how is it possible that Jack has been to the island before? Furthermore, how do you know this?[/quote]

    The very first scene of the show is Jack waking up on the ground and running to the plane. Always seemed to me like he wasn’t really on the plane- everyone else is on the beach with the wreckage, except Jack, whos 100 paces in the jungle.

    In this ep. he wakes up in the exact same way. So it seems that 815 was also a recreation of another flight, …this time none of them remember the crash. On 815 Jack was the only one who didn’t remember the crash.

    If Jack didn’t have something to do with the island before 815, then maybe he took his fathers place. Maybe we will see an ep. with Christian waking up with the dialating eyeball, a nip in his pocket and in the same spot… I dunno.

    I guess I always figured that Jack is meant to be on the island, but always tries to get away… then ends up back, tries to get off… ends up back etc. Like a lost soul or something… but maybe not, just the way I had always thought it in his case.[/quote]

    It could possibly be that Jack was born on the island but doesn’t remember. Charlotte was born or lived on the island when she was younger but did not remember details until later on before she was dying. Jack could have been born on the Island, while his Father was working/running Dharma.
    Also for a lot of the characters they either 1) do not have a relationship with their mother/father or 2) have a distant or difficult relationship with them.

    Mr. Eko and Yemi(his brother): both crash on the Island
    Jin: Father isn’t sure if Jin is his son, and mother not in picture
    Kate: Never knows who her real father is
    Jack: Strained relationship w/ dad
    Sawyer: Father kills his mother at age 8 and himself
    Hurley: Father runs away
    Claire: Does not know who father is (Christian Shepherd)
    Sun: Semi-strained relationship with father
    Walt: Strained relationship with Michael
    Others like Michael, Desmond, Sayid have strained relationships with loved ones.

  514. naina says:

    hi .i’m new to this site like it a lott i am having some questions n i was wondering if u would answer it for me
    1. when aloise says that there r windows which are opening to the island then there must be hundreds of planes that travel everyday shouldnt there be many planes ending up on the island ..when she says their window is going to close in few hrs n they all need to be on that plane as it travels thru/over it does it mean even if the jack n grp were not on that plane still it would have crashed ? that is if it did crash

    2. why did sayid stop working for ben . one time he is killing ppl for him n next he is advising hurley not to trust ben .what happened

    3.when ben’s daughter gets shot .he gets into a room n locks himself for somtime . what was he doing unleashing the smoke monster or getting his fake passport . if he took his passport it means he knew he would be turning that wheel n getting off the island then if he knew alrdy wat to do why does he act like he doesnt know wat to do next, all that time when locke is trying to find cabin n jacob n trying to find the answer for how to save the island n its ppl

    4. in season 3 when kate jack n sawyer n were caputured they realise that they are on a different island .i thought that there were two island .watever happend to it? is it also going thru time travelling .

    i understand maybe u hav alrdy discussed it, but if u could clear my doubts i would really appreciate it

  515. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315939"]
    1. when aloise says that there r windows which are opening to the island then there must be hundreds of planes that travel everyday shouldnt there be many planes ending up on the island

    2. why did sayid stop working for ben . one time he is killing ppl for him n next he is advising hurley not to trust ben .what happened

    3.when ben’s daughter gets shot .he gets into a room n locks himself for somtime . what was he doing unleashing the smoke monster or getting his fake passport . if he took his passport it means he knew he would be turning that wheel n getting off the island then if he knew alrdy wat to do why does he act like he doesnt know wat to do next, all that time when locke is trying to find cabin n jacob n trying to find the answer for how to save the island n its ppl

    4. in season 3 when kate jack n sawyer n were caputured they realise that they are on a different island .i thought that there were two island .watever happend to it? is it also going thru time travelling .

    i understand maybe u hav alrdy discussed it, but if u could clear my doubts i would really appreciate it[/quote]

    Not sure if you are asking for theories or real answers, but none of the questions you posted have legitimate answers onscreen. Theories? I am sure there are plenty!

    : ) P

  516. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315938"][quote comment="315934"][/quote]

    Also, how is it possible that Jack has been to the island before? Furthermore, how do you know this?[/quote]

    The very first scene of the show is Jack waking up on the ground and running to the plane. Always seemed to me like he wasn’t really on the plane- everyone else is on the beach with the wreckage, except Jack, whos 100 paces in the jungle.

    In this ep. he wakes up in the exact same way. So it seems that 815 was also a recreation of another flight, …this time none of them remember the crash. On 815 Jack was the only one who didn’t remember the crash.

    If Jack didn’t have something to do with the island before 815, then maybe he took his fathers place. Maybe we will see an ep. with Christian waking up with the dialating eyeball, a nip in his pocket and in the same spot… I dunno.

    I guess I always figured that Jack is meant to be on the island, but always tries to get away… then ends up back, tries to get off… ends up back etc. Like a lost soul or something… but maybe not, just the way I had always thought it in his case.[/quote]

    It could possibly be that Jack was born on the island but doesn’t remember. Charlotte was born or lived on the island when she was younger but did not remember

    details until later on before she was dying. Jack could have been born on the Island, while his Father was working/running Dharma.
    Also for a lot of the characters they either 1) do not have a relationship with their mother/father or 2) have a distant or difficult relationship with them.

    Mr. Eko and Yemi(his brother): both crash on the Island
    Jin: Father isn’t sure if Jin is his son, and mother not in picture
    Kate: Never knows who her real father is
    Jack: Strained relationship w/ dad
    Sawyer: Father kills his mother at age 8 and himself
    Hurley: Father runs away
    Claire: Does not know who father is (Christian Shepherd)
    Sun: Semi-strained relationship with father
    Walt: Strained relationship with Michael
    Others like Michael, Desmond, Sayid have strained relationships with loved ones.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Kate thought her real dad was the one who was in the military and raised her. He tells her, after she kills her mothers husband, that the one she killed was her real birth father.

  517. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="315869"]We found out that the island is always moving in space and time, that’s how it wasn’t found. But Hawking, as I think Frank said, didn’t suggest that moving the wheel has changed this.

    And how did Widmore’s freighter stay close to the island if it’s always moving – it stayed for a long time, didn’t it?
    [/quote]
    Well, I see two possibilities. 1.The freighter was within the moving radius.
    2. And this is my take- I did not think that hawking meant that the Island is moving every second and minute of the day. Rather, I thought she meant it as the Island always can move and has moved throughout the history of it’s existence. It’s like saying “I’ve always moved around a lot as a child with my family”- meaning we moved often, but not necessarily ALL the time.

  518. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315963"][quote comment="315869"]We found out that the island is always moving in space and time, that’s how it wasn’t found. But Hawking, as I think Frank said, didn’t suggest that moving the wheel has changed this.

    And how did Widmore’s freighter stay close to the island if it’s always moving – it stayed for a long time, didn’t it?
    [/quote]
    Well, I see two possibilities. 1.The freighter was within the moving radius.
    2. And this is my take- I did not think that hawking meant that the Island is moving every second and minute of the day. Rather, I thought she meant it as the Island always can move and has moved throughout the history of it’s existence. It’s like saying “I’ve always moved around a lot as a child with my family”- meaning we moved often, but not necessarily ALL the time.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    That’s what I thought at first but if you go back and listen to the way Hawking describes it, she is definitely suggesting that the island is constantly moving.

  519. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315963"][quote comment="315869"]We found out that the island is always moving in space and time, that’s how it wasn’t found. But Hawking, as I think Frank said, didn’t suggest that moving the wheel has changed this.

    And how did Widmore’s freighter stay close to the island if it’s always moving – it stayed for a long time, didn’t it?
    [/quote]
    Well, I see two possibilities. 1.The freighter was within the moving radius.
    2. And this is my take- I did not think that hawking meant that the Island is moving every second and minute of the day. Rather, I thought she meant it as the Island always can move and has moved throughout the history of it’s existence. It’s like saying “I’ve always moved around a lot as a child with my family”- meaning we moved often, but not necessarily ALL the time.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Absolutley IMO, no.2 is what she meant. Remember the windows?

  520. Hammer says:

    It has to stay put for some increment of time in order to be found at all. Windows….

  521. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315966"]
    Absolutley IMO, no.2 is what she meant. Remember the windows?[/quote]
    Here is what she said:

    Well, this fellow presumed, and correctly, as it turned out, that the Island was always moving. Why do you think you were never rescued? Now while the movements of the Island seem random, this man and his team created a series of equations which tell us, with a high degree of probability, where it is going to be at a certain point… in time. Windows, as it were, that while open, provide a route back. Unfortunately, these windows don’t stay open for very long. Yours closes… in 36 hours.

    After reading it again, now I am really confused. Is she suggesting that the “window” has been open since they crashed on the island? Is that the same window Ben and his “others” used to travel to and from the island?

  522. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315968"][quote comment="315966"]
    Absolutley IMO, no.2 is what she meant. Remember the windows?[/quote]
    Here is what she said:

    Well, this fellow presumed, and correctly, as it turned out, that the Island was always moving. Why do you think you were never rescued? Now while the movements of the Island seem random, this man and his team created a series of equations which tell us, with a high degree of probability, where it is going to be at a certain point… in time. Windows, as it were, that while open, provide a route back. Unfortunately, these windows don’t stay open for very long. Yours closes… in 36 hours.

    After reading it again, now I am really confused. Is she suggesting that the “window” has been open since they crashed on the island? Is that the same window Ben and his “others” used to travel to and from the island?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    This could explain why they had to go back or it could be trouble. They entered together(group), in a window. But some left incorrectly by Ben moving the island. Now they have to meet back up with the group ON THE ISLAND before the window closes or “who knows what will happen”. It doesn’t matter that they are in the 70′s for the window, only that they are together on the island. The physical moving and time moving do not need to be synced up, just that the GROUP is together.

  523. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="315970"]
    This could explain why they had to go back or it could be trouble. They entered together(group), in a window. But some left incorrectly by Ben moving the island. Now they have to meet back up with the group ON THE ISLAND before the window closes or “who knows what will happen”. It doesn’t matter that they are in the 70′s for the window, only that they are together on the island. The physical moving and time moving do not need to be synced up, just that the GROUP is together.[/quote]
    Nice. I like that. So that would mean Sun and Sayid are with them. Now if we could just see how Ben, Richard, Mr. Friendly, Ethan, etc., traveled to and from the island…:)

  524. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315971"][quote comment="315970"]
    This could explain why they had to go back or it could be trouble. They entered together(group), in a window. But some left incorrectly by Ben moving the island. Now they have to meet back up with the group ON THE ISLAND before the window closes or “who knows what will happen”. It doesn’t matter that they are in the 70′s for the window, only that they are together on the island. The physical moving and time moving do not need to be synced up, just that the GROUP is together.[/quote]
    Nice. I like that. So that would mean Sun and Sayid are with them. Now if we could just see how Ben, Richard, Mr. Friendly, Ethan, etc., traveled to and from the island…:)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    That’s why I said ‘incorrectly’. They were on a helicopter when the island moved. You have to use the correct bearing for the window you are in to leave…..maybe? Michael used the correct bearing to leave.

  525. Hooked says:

    When Ben allowed Michael and Walt to leave on the boat he gave them a bearing of 325. Later, Faraday gave Lapidus a bearing of 305 when he was transporting Des and Sayid to the freighter. I always wondered about that. Could be proof of the island moving before we knew it could move.

  526. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="315911"]Hi all,
    I am new to this but there is defo something up with Kate,others have already said how frank did not even look her way on the plane and also hurley on the plane or when they land and her apparant zombie state etc.
    But as I thought when i looked Up the transcript she does not converse with anyone else the entire episode and also when Desmond confronts Hawking he says ” I came here to deliver a message. Daniel Faraday–your son–sent me here. He wanted me to tell you that he and all the people on the Island need your help. He said that only you could help them. He didn’t say Jack. He didn’t say Sun. He didn’t say Ben. He said you.” NO Kate even though she was standing there i think this is very deliberate it is like Jack was the only how could see her.That’s my two cents lol.
    Hi all from Ireland[/quote]
    Once again, I think people are over-analyzing. Kate was VERY opposed to going back, BUT then something happened. We don’t know what that was, but it has obviously shaken her up A LOT. I’m sure we’ll find out eventually. Either way, the fact that she did not talk/ intersct with anyone is not really a big deal. Not everyone interacted with everyone else either, but that doesn’t mean they all didn’t see each other. Besides, Hurley did see her in the water when Jack was trying to wake her up. So IMHO, for some people here it’s just much ado about nothing.

  527. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315974"]When Ben allowed Michael and Walt to leave on the boat he gave them a bearing of 325. Later, Faraday gave Lapidus a bearing of 305 when he was transporting Des and Sayid to the freighter. I always wondered about that. Could be proof of the island moving before we knew it could move.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Good point. Maybe the island ‘drifts’ during a window.

  528. jaime says:

    [quote comment="315922"]Who is the man that gives his condolences to Jack at the airport for losing a friend?
    - Ana Lucia’s Brother
    - Works for Charles Whitmore?[/quote]
    **************************************************

    The first thing i thought was that he could be from Tunisia. Possibly Bedouin?

  529. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="315976"][quote comment="315974"]When Ben allowed Michael and Walt to leave on the boat he gave them a bearing of 325. Later, Faraday gave Lapidus a bearing of 305 when he was transporting Des and Sayid to the freighter. I always wondered about that. Could be proof of the island moving before we knew it could move.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Good point. Maybe the island ‘drifts’ during a window.[/quote]

    * * * * * * * *

    Of course, the first flash – the purple sky event – when Desmond used the fail safe key – was not long after Michael and Walt left. Perhaps the island moved a little bit then?

    : ) P

  530. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="315980"][quote comment="315976"][quote comment="315974"]When Ben allowed Michael and Walt to leave on the boat he gave them a bearing of 325. Later, Faraday gave Lapidus a bearing of 305 when he was transporting Des and Sayid to the freighter. I always wondered about that. Could be proof of the island moving before we knew it could move.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Good point. Maybe the island ‘drifts’ during a window.[/quote]

    * * * * * * * *

    Of course, the first flash – the purple sky event – when Desmond used the fail safe key – was not long after Michael and Walt left. Perhaps the island moved a little bit then?

    : ) P[/quote]
    Aren’t we just a bunch of brainiacs? LOL.

  531. Tarzan says:

    LOST for Dummies – by Tarzan

    Island has snow globe shield ’round it.

    Snow globe shield make island not visible for explorer beyond snow globe shield.

    Light enter snow globe shield through narrow spectrum. (Tarzan use smart word!)

    Visitor (plane, boat, helo) only get through narrow slit on certain heading.

    This standard operating procedure.

    Non-standard procedure – when someone mess with frozen wheel or not enter numbers every one zero eight minute.

    Island god not liking open snow globe shield.

    Island god make island move quickly because island goddess not most pretty in world.

    Move island take energy.

    Take energy mean island god rest everytime move.

    Rest everytime move mean island expose when rest.

    Hawking woman know this – make island god mad.

    Mad island god move island no more – let Hawking put whiney, arrogant survivors back on island.

    Island god have big smokie monster take care of whiners.

    (Tarzan swim to small island now.)

  532. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="315986"]LOST for Dummies – by Tarzan

    Island has snow globe shield ’round it.

    Snow globe shield make island not visible for explorer beyond snow globe shield.

    Light enter snow globe shield through narrow spectrum. (Tarzan use smart word!)

    Visitor (plane, boat, helo) only get through narrow slit on certain heading.

    This standard operating procedure.

    Non-standard procedure – when someone mess with frozen wheel or not enter numbers every one zero eight minute.

    Island god not liking open snow globe shield.

    Island god make island move quickly because island goddess not most pretty in world.

    Move island take energy.

    Take energy mean island god rest everytime move.

    Rest everytime move mean island expose when rest.

    Hawking woman know this – make island god mad.

    Mad island god move island no more – let Hawking put whiney, arrogant survivors back on island.

    Island god have big smokie monster take care of whiners.

    (Tarzan swim to small island now.)[/quote]
    Tarzan smart. Make good theory.

    I swim to small island too, bring polar bear named cheetah.

  533. Rita says:

    [quote comment="315976"][quote comment="315974"]When Ben allowed Michael and Walt to leave on the boat he gave them a bearing of 325. Later, Faraday gave Lapidus a bearing of 305 when he was transporting Des and Sayid to the freighter. I always wondered about that. Could be proof of the island moving before we knew it could move.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Good point. Maybe the island ‘drifts’ during a window.[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    yes, unless you move the FDW – the island moved pretty quickly then! Out of site in nothing flat.

  534. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315864"][quote comment="315554"]I am so into the show and this board and while all of these posts are far more thought out than mine will ever be two things

    1) Best line of the night

    Jack to Ben: how are you reading?

    Ben: My Mother taught me

    2) In any of the past season has anyone ever seen the Black Rock’s steering wheel? DW anyone?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    The steering on the Black rock would have been a wheele of about 4 feet in diameter with spokes comming off about 9 inches from a 2 1/2 foot diameter hub. They would likely be turned wood with knobs on the ends.

    The FDW was a 8-10 foot diameter wheele with a hub of around 5-6 feet and 2-3 foot flat spokes.

    I also beleive the FDW predates the Black Rock by quite some time.[/quote]
    //////////////////////////
    i dont think you can get much ‘pre black rock’ sailing ship technology . circa 1700s can you ?

  535. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="315981"][quote comment="315980"][quote comment="315976"][quote comment="315974"]When Ben allowed Michael and Walt to leave on the boat he gave them a bearing of 325. Later, Faraday gave Lapidus a bearing of 305 when he was transporting Des and Sayid to the freighter. I always wondered about that. Could be proof of the island moving before we knew it could move.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Good point. Maybe the island ‘drifts’ during a window.[/quote]

    * * * * * * * *

    Of course, the first flash – the purple sky event – when Desmond used the fail safe key – was not long after Michael and Walt left. Perhaps the island moved a little bit then?

    : ) P[/quote]
    Aren’t we just a bunch of brainiacs? LOL.[/quote]
    /////////////////////
    i was wondering about the first purple flash …was that the island moving or time moving ?As i ve said before ,i think we are dealing with two different aspects. The island is moving in time , its not atually moving co ordinates,although moving in time would possibly make it shift co ordinates slightly wouldnt it ? from 325 to 305? ? I dont know , my ‘space time continuem ‘is a bit rusty!Im finding it hard to believe that every purple flashes causes a complete island shift like the one witnessed from the helecopter by the OA6.When jack ,kate and sawyer were on the dock , ben seemed suprised at the purple sky event . surely he would know what was going on ? and if that was a time shift ,how come nothing changed ? . no nose bleeds or anything!

  536. gmta leah says:

    p.s I think the woman sayid is hancuffed to ,on the flight is naomis sister.she s the only other mixed race female been mentioned in previous episodes.
    Its obvious sayed would have to be forced on to the plane ,cosidering he had no intention of going back.Hence the handcuffs.

  537. londonboy says:

    I agree with the idea that the island is not constantly moving, ie. every second or minute. But I wasn’t sure how long the freighter was by the island – didn’t it arrive end of Season 3 and only go down last ep of Season 4? How long was that exactly?

    I don’t think it could have been within the island radius as it disappeared in front of Sawyer and Juliet’s eyes.

    My point was whether we think the freighter found a different way to the island. And if there are other ‘normal/correct’ ways to the island (sub?), presumably they still have to go the right co-ordinates if the island moves around. How would they know those if Ben isn’t supposed to have been in that room before?

    Or are we back to the magic box?

  538. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="316080"]I agree with the idea that the island is not constantly moving, ie. every second or minute. But I wasn’t sure how long the freighter was by the island – didn’t it arrive end of Season 3 and only go down last ep of Season 4? How long was that exactly?

    I don’t think it could have been within the island radius as it disappeared in front of Sawyer and Juliet’s eyes.

    My point was whether we think the freighter found a different way to the island. And if there are other ‘normal/correct’ ways to the island (sub?), presumably they still have to go the right co-ordinates if the island moves around. How would they know those if Ben isn’t supposed to have been in that room before?

    Or are we back to the magic box?[/quote]
    ///////////////
    i think the boat came between 95 and 100 th day. the oa6 left on the 108 th day helecopter arrived on the hundredth day, naomi parachuted in on about the ninetyeighth day . i think

  539. gmta leah says:

    I think faraday found the island.

  540. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment="316079"]p.s I think the woman sayid is hancuffed to ,on the flight is naomis sister.she s the only other mixed race female been mentioned in previous episodes.
    Its obvious sayed would have to be forced on to the plane ,cosidering he had no intention of going back.Hence the handcuffs.[/quote]
    —————

    Didn’t Miles say to Daniel/Kate/Jack that Naomi didn’t have a sister? that the message to her “sister” was really code for being in trouble?

    I think Ben called the feds and notified them of Sayid’s presence and connection to the Seychelles hit. After all, Ben ordered the hit so he could divulge details. Sayid being on the flight to Guam is en route to Seychelles – as some other brilliant Lost fan proposed. (Or the woman is posing as a fed and is really an Off Island Other working with Ben. There is ALWAYS more than one possibility which elates me and drives me nuts at the same time!)

  541. Flyboy says:

    First time posting…. If I am repeating something that has already been discussed I apologize.

    No one thus far has pointed out that Ms. Hawking told them that the window will close in ’36 HOURS’, yet the text when the scene opens says ’46 HOURS EARLIER’. In other words the losties flashed/crashed on the island 10 hours after Ms. Hawking told them their window will close.

    I think this discrepancy along with the one that Daniel tested on the island with the rocket and the clock are important clues to a bigger picture that we are missing.

    Another time discrepancy is how long the losties spent on the island and how much time passed in the real world.

    I am going to try to see if their is any math similarities between these different events that can be gleaned.

    Could it be that there are multiple timelines and the people that are dead (Chrisitian Shepard, Charlie, Locke, etc.) are in fact dead but they can still travel and appear in times that they were alive before. In other words if someone died in 2001 like Christian Shepard for example, could he still appear alive to people in times between the date he was born and the date in 2001 when he died. When 815 crashed it could have landed on the island in a time that was pre 2001 hence Christian Shepard would still appear alive. However, when the island time reaches 2001 after the date that he died he would no longer appear alive. This may explain Jacob. Jacob could be the entity that uses proxies (dead bodies from a future time) to speak through. This may also explain what is happening with Locke and why Hurley could see Charlie. Charlie could have died post 2004 on the island (when he drowned) if the island was constantly moving through time hence back in the real world during 2004 Hurley could still see him. And so could other people due to the fact that the other guy at the psych ward also saw Charlie, not just Hurley.

    Or maybe I am way off…. what do you guys think?

    Also, like Charlotte not remembering that she was on the island prior to the moment where she died, could it be that Charlie programmed the Beach Boys song code for the looking glass jammer and just didn’t remember it prior to that moment. Could this type of thing be happening alot more on this show. Could this be part of the main theme of the show?

  542. Flyboy says:

    Another thing…. When Jack first appeared in the pilot episode he didn’t remember the crash but Kate did. This time Jack, Hurley, and Kate don’t remember the crash. Could it be that Jack didn’t remember the crash because he died in that crash but when the scene plays out on the island they have already time traveled back in time to a time prior to the crash. Could that mean that since Hurley and Kate also don’t remember the crash this time they really died during the flight 316 crash. They still appear alive to each other because they went back in time to the 70′s (guessing that by Jin’s darma clothes and the van) which is a time between their birth and their death so during that period they are still alive. When they reach the time that 316 crashed then they will no longer appear alive. Maybe through some sort of ‘universe course correction’ death that hawking was talking about.

    Maybe Desmond’s flashes of Charlie dying were not seeing the future so much as remembering the past?

  543. londonboy says:

    Hi gmta leah, thanks for the timeline, that’s very helpful. I guess as we don’t know what Hawkings idea of a ‘short time’ is, we can’t really tell how often the island moves normally.

    If my theory that the time flashes were a result of the Losties being subject to the island’s natural movements is correct, that would suggest it moves quite regularly but hapharzardly. And I’m presuming that the window means that’s where the island is at that particular time, rather than just a portal to where it actually is.

    Head scratching time again…

    As for your earlier comment re reading these boards before you see the ep, I used to do that several years ago with another show and it ended up that actually watching the show was almost an afterthought and became less fun.

    I’ve watched Lost from the very beginning but it was episode four, Walkabout, that just floored me. That revelation with Locke in the wheelchair pretty much ensured I’d watch the rest of the series, it was that good.

    I’d hate that to have been spoiled, so while I miss this site and all the debate for half the week and then have to play catchup, it’s worth it for me.

    But that’s just me, you plough your own furrow just fine :-)

  544. Flyboy says:

    Here is another aspect of my theory…

    Let’s say you die in 2004 but then time travel to 2000. In 2000, your 2004 body could still appear alive and could interact with anyone that did not know you died in 2004. But people that knew you died in 2004 could not see or interact with your 2004 body in the year 2000. The people that knew you died in 2004 could only see and interact with your 2000 body in the year 2000. That also means that people in 2000 who didn’t know you died could possibly see both your 2000 body and your 2004 body.

    Hence if Charlie died post 2004 let’s say 2008 maybe for example then Hurley could still interact with 2004 Charlie but not post 2008 Charlie.

    If I am confusing you guys I would be glad to explain more, because it is clear to me…

  545. Flyboy says:

    My theory would also explain Locke’s legs miraculously healing and then constantly getting re-injured. If they crashed in time prior to the time when Locke’s legs were injured in the fall from the window, then his legs would be alright because it didn’t happen yet. Then the universe would find different ways to re-injure Locke’s legs through some sort of hawking ‘course correction’ event.

  546. lostmama says:

    forgive me if it’s been said or disscussed before but what do you think Ben was doing when Jack called him and he looked all beaten up. bloddy? I was htinking maybe he followed Desmond and tried to get to Penny since he swore to Widmore he’d get him back through her. Again sorry I haven’t been able to read all the post so don’t know if it’s been mentioned before.

  547. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="315528"]Been thinking about why Ben was reading “Ulysses” and the painting of St. Thomas in the church. Here is my humble opinion.

    The story of Thomas is something we’ll see in the future. Thomas did not believe that Jesus had risen from the dead, even when he saw him with his own eyes. He had to touch the wounds of Christ before his faith was restored. We’ll see a parallel to this when Locke rises from the dead. Some (Jack?) will not believe, until they are convinced by some dramatic means. This scene also goes with my previous theory that Jack is turning into the “man of faith”, but is not there yet.

    Ben knew the story of St. Thomas, a big story especially for catholics. But, on the plane he reads James Joyce, an author that was raised as a catholic, but lost his faith in the church and turned his back on it. Maybe a hint that Ben is at odds with the island now because he has lost his faith in it? (because of his tumor? because Alex got killed?)[/quote]
    thats amazing I love the connection you made, ties in nicely with the is Ben good/evil paradox. Maybe he started off spiritually connected with the island but was coherced into doing evil in its name (eg. the purge, killings…) and has lost his faith and that is why the island has displaced him with Locke. He seems increasingly sidelined in power terms, though strangely unfazed by it.

  548. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="315772"]One issue about the time travel thing that has always bothered me – traveling to the future. Can they do that? When Sawyer et al were in the dug out canoes with the Ajira Airways water bottles, it seemed that they were in the future. Here’s my problem: When little Rat Eloise traveled to the future and learned the maze (consciouness travel), when she came back to the current time, already knowing the maze (having learned it in the future) she DIED of TD. Therefore, she never was alive in the part of the future where she had learned the maze – she was dead so Dan never actually taught her. Her future where she learned the maze was therefore an alternate timeline from the one that actually happened. I know D&C have said this would not be about alternate timelines for us to keep track of, but as they have shown, there exists the possibility of alternates all the same. Eloise changed the future by dying in the past (so to speak) and others may be able to do the same, with or without course correction.[/quote]
    yeh but as memory serves eliose didnt die instantly so he may have had time to teach her of screen. need to check on lostepedia to be sure.

  549. roses12 says:

    didnt mean to post half way through a thought, trying to establish allegiances

    sorry

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