LaFleur

sawyer_lafleur_s5.jpg
Craziness – crazy that we are already at the mid-point of Season 5! And even more crazy that I think the questions in my head far outnumber the answers we have left to (hopefully) get over the last season and a half of our favorite show. Enjoy this week’s episode, because I believe we are due for a one week hiatus after “LaFleur” – which in case you were wondering, is French for “Flower”.

ABC’s Official Show Description

Spoiler Alert

“Sawyer perpetuates a lie with some of the other island survivors in order to protect themselves from mistakes of the past.”

The episode preview would suggest that we are going to get the reunion of the Oceanic 6 (or 3) with those originally left behind. So, a few questions to ponder heading into tonight’s episode (and to stimulate some pre-show commentary):

  • What is the current time period the Island is now in?
  • Why did Ben really kill Locke, given Locke was a nanosecond from committing suicide? Lots of theories out there…
  • Presented yet again with the never-ending love triangle that is Jack, Kate, Sawyer; who will Kate ultimately choose?

Episode Preview: LaFleur

Episode Sneak Peeks

Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3

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1,048 Responses to LaFleur

  1. PJSander says:

    If the photo of Josh Holloway is any indication that this will be a Sawyer-centric episode, I know there will be some happy female fans this evening!

    The title of the episode leads one to think along French lines, but I think we may not want to jump directly into the Rousseau connection. La fleur, in French, is flower, which could relate to The Little Prince who tamed his flower.

    One interesting thing that I did consider is that in Tunisia, although Arabic is the official language, French is spoken widely, particularly in schools and the media. From Wikipedia: It is widely used in education (e.g. as the language of instruction in the sciences in secondary school), the press, and in business. Most educated Tunisians are able to speak it. Many Tunisians, particularly those residing in large urban areas, readily mix Tunisian Arabic with French.

    I wonder if Charlotte also spoke French? Perhaps Pierre Chang taught her?

    : ) P

  2. LostGrrl says:

    GOT IT! I know what the title must mean. Sawyer is French. And we’ll finally find out that what he whispered to Kate before he jumped is:
    “L’eau des fleurs de mon retour à la maison.”
    (“Water my flowers back home.”)

    And THAT’s the favor that ultimately broke up Kate and Jack off the island!

    Well… maybe not.

    We haven’t head any really funny lines in a few weeks, so at least an Island-centric ep with Sawyer (and Miles, perhaps) is guaranteed to produce some.

  3. Hammer says:

    Though PJ is likely correct on the connection to tonight’s title, I DO want to jump into the Rousseau connection as the ‘second’ meaning (as the titles often do). Since LaFleur is also a common French name and I don’t remember getting info the last names of her group, maybe there is a connection?

  4. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318069"]GOT IT! I know what the title must mean. Sawyer is French.
    “L’eau des fleurs de mon retour à la maison.”
    (“Water my flowers back home.”)
    [/quote]
    Good one.:) You my be right in some way. When I first heard the title, I though it was obviously a character’s name. I wasn’t sure if they were going to introduce us to a new character or if it was an alias. Then I thought if it were an alias, it is probably Faraday’s so he can infiltrate Dharma. Then I logged on here and found out who the episode is about ( It’s about time for another Sawyer episode, BTW ).

  5. Rita says:

    It’s Wednesday! Yay! OK, my take on the title:
    In the Little Prince, the book, the Prince needed to return to his world to care for his flower – he had left the flower because it had become tiresome and a bit demanding, and he wanted to see what else was out there. In the end, he realized that he loved the flower, it was special to him, and he desperately needed to return to it. In fact, he needed to die to get there. So, the remaining island LOSTies are the “flower” perhaps? Or the Others? – if Locke is the Prince and needs to return to “his people”. In any case, I think that this episode references the world, and people – collectively – that are left behind when the Little Prince leaves.

  6. Miraks says:

    Perhaps La Fleur is another station on the island?

  7. Rita says:

    Still think that LaFleur references “The Little Prince” (Comment 5) but as most LOST title have more than one meaning, I propose that since it is spelled as one word (rather than La fleur for the flower), it is in fact a name, as Hammer, L4E, and LostGrrl have suggested. Maybe it is a name – someone’s name, or alias. If our LOSTies are in the 70’s and have really infiltrated Dharma, they may have come up with alias’s for whatever reason. If the picture above is any indication, then maybe Sawyer is now going by James LaFleur.

  8. Skippy says:

    [quote comment="318094"]Though PJ is likely correct on the connection to tonight’s title, I DO want to jump into the Rousseau connection as the ‘second’ meaning (as the titles often do).
    Another possible layer: that ‘La Fleur’ refers to Clementine, Sawyer’s baby daughter. The photo of him sitting on the beached rowboat also shows a shabby armchair, ugly lamp, and ancient t.v. “Be it ever so humble, there’s no place like home”… When he’s reunited with Kate (tonight?), will she be able to tell him she fulfilled her promise?

  9. Skippy says:

    Sorry for not separating the thoughts – I’ll try
    again:
    ———————————
    [quote comment="318124"][quote comment="318094"]Though PJ is likely correct on the connection to tonight’s title, I DO want to jump into the Rousseau connection as the ‘second’ meaning (as the titles often do).
    [/quote]
    ——————————
    Another possible layer: that ‘La Fleur’ refers to Clementine, Sawyer’s baby daughter. The photo of him sitting on the beached rowboat also shows a shabby armchair, ugly lamp, and ancient t.v. “Be it ever so humble, there’s no place like home”… When he’s reunited with Kate (tonight?), will she be able to tell him she fulfilled her promise?

  10. jeramy says:

    happy lost episode on my birthday….can’t wait!

  11. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318126"]happy lost episode on my birthday….can’t wait![/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Happy bday Lajeramyleur (that’s my attempt to make the post episode relevant. :)

  12. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318105"]It’s Wednesday! Yay! OK, my take on the title:
    In the Little Prince, the book, the Prince needed to return to his world to care for his flower – he had left the flower because it had become tiresome and a bit demanding, and he wanted to see what else was out there. In the end, he realized that he loved the flower, it was special to him, and he desperately needed to return to it. In fact, he needed to die to get there. So, the remaining island LOSTies are the “flower” perhaps? Or the Others? – if Locke is the Prince and needs to return to “his people”. In any case, I think that this episode references the world, and people – collectively – that are left behind when the Little Prince leaves.[/quote]
    Like it Rita, like it.

  13. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="318125"]Sorry for not separating the thoughts – I’ll try
    again:
    ———————————
    [quote comment="318124"][quote comment="318094"]Though PJ is likely correct on the connection to tonight’s title, I DO want to jump into the Rousseau connection as the ‘second’ meaning (as the titles often do).
    [/quote]
    ——————————
    Another possible layer: that ‘La Fleur’ refers to Clementine, Sawyer’s baby daughter. The photo of him sitting on the beached rowboat also shows a shabby armchair, ugly lamp, and ancient t.v. “Be it ever so humble, there’s no place like home”… When he’s reunited with Kate (tonight?), will she be able to tell him she fulfilled her promise?[/quote]
    ____________________

    Looks like 70’s style furniture to me. All that is missing is the orange shag carpet. Dharma years here we come.
    Maybe that is why Jin has been sporting that funky perm style? He is living in the 70’s? Maybe they’ll all break out into a chorus of “Stay’in Alive, Stay’in Alive, oh, oh , oh, oh,………Stay’in Aliiiiiive…

  14. Skippy says:

    Happy Birthday Jeramy! Now go get LOST!
    =D

  15. i need answers says:

    In watching the past season over and over like we all do…I still cant figure out the time on the Island compared to the time off….it had been 4 days since locke saw Widmore on the Island…he still has a broken leg…locke then visits everyone..still with a broken leg…ben kills him with a broken leg…so where does 3 years fit in anywhere…I understand that locke didnt see all the losties cronologically but it couldnt have taken place over 3 years because of his cast…then he dies and goes back to the island within say a week….am I wrong or doesnt that mean lockes 4 days on the Island = close to 3 years…

    another thought I had is if Ben Killed locke to reinact the first flight…do we know how christian died…was he murdered perhaps?

  16. Skippy says:

    [quote comment="318129"]
    Looks like 70’s style furniture to me. All that is missing is the orange shag carpet. Dharma years here we come.
    Maybe that is why Jin has been sporting that funky perm style? He is living in the 70’s? Maybe they’ll all break out into a chorus of “Stay’in Alive, Stay’in Alive, oh, oh , oh, oh,………Stay’in Aliiiiiive…[/quote]
    LOL…”Life goin nowhere. somebody help me.
    Somebody help me, yeah.” The BeeGees WERE from Australia…and Des Does have that Barry Gibb coif goin’ on…
    Bet you’re right, though, Miraks.

  17. Aggie Mo says:

    I like this interpretation, except rather than the whole 06, I’ll bet the “flower” is Sawyer and Kate the little prince. This would fit nice if, as another poster suggests, Sawyer’s Dharma pseudo-name is LaFleur.

    [quote comment="318105"]It’s Wednesday! Yay! OK, my take on the title:
    In the Little Prince, the book, the Prince needed to return to his world to care for his flower – he had left the flower because it had become tiresome and a bit demanding, and he wanted to see what else was out there. In the end, he realized that he loved the flower, it was special to him, and he desperately needed to return to it. In fact, he needed to die to get there. So, the remaining island LOSTies are the “flower” perhaps? Or the Others? – if Locke is the Prince and needs to return to “his people”. In any case, I think that this episode references the world, and people – collectively – that are left behind when the Little Prince leaves.[/quote]

  18. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318134"]In watching the past season over and over like we all do…I still cant figure out the time on the Island compared to the time off….it had been 4 days since locke saw Widmore on the Island…he still has a broken leg…locke then visits everyone..still with a broken leg…ben kills him with a broken leg…so where does 3 years fit in anywhere…I understand that locke didnt see all the losties cronologically but it couldnt have taken place over 3 years because of his cast…then he dies and goes back to the island within say a week….am I wrong or doesnt that mean lockes 4 days on the Island = close to 3 years…

    another thought I had is if Ben Killed locke to reinact the first flight…do we know how christian died…was he murdered perhaps?[/quote]

    Since Ben “jumped” ten months when he turned the FDW, we are guessing that Locke did as well. His “four days” before turning the FDW would have been early 2005. Since the O6’ers are all saying “three years” since they returned, we have to assume that when A316 takes off, it is early 2008. The jury is out on how LONG Locke was talking to the O6’ers, but I think we’re debating whether it was a few days, a few weeks or a few months. I think it is safe to say he was NOT off island for three years.

    IF, as we suspect, the RLOSTies ended up in DHARMA years, the 70’s, and have been living in “real time” (where a day actually lasts a day) since the flashes stopped, then we will figure out how long Locke was off-island (eventually). For example, if we learn they’ve been living in DHARMA time for two months, then I think it is likely that Locke spent two months in 2008.

    It is definitely possible that Christian was murdered… perhaps even after a suicide attempt. The man WAS in horrific shape emotionally.

    : ) P

  19. Skippy says:

    [quote comment="318134"]In watching the past season over and over like we all do…I still cant figure out the time on the Island compared to the time off….it had been 4 days since locke saw Widmore on the Island…he still has a broken leg…locke then visits everyone..still with a broken leg…ben kills him with a broken leg…so where does 3 years fit in anywhere…I understand that locke didnt see all the losties cronologically but it couldnt have taken place over 3 years because of his cast…then he dies and goes back to the island within say a week….am I wrong or doesnt that mean lockes 4 days on the Island = close to 3 years…

    another thought I had is if Ben Killed locke to reinact the first flight…do we know how christian died…was he murdered perhaps?[/quote]
    ‘The three years’ began when the O6 were rescued by Penny and finishes as they’re boarding Flight 316. John Locke’s time difference is completely separate. Locke tells Widmore that he time travelled back to 1954 and met the young Widmore, and that time traveling happened 4 days ago (meaning 4 days before Locke and Widmore are talking in Tunisia). Then Locke spends several weeks traveling to meet/convince the O6 to return to The Island and is shortly thereafter 86ed by Ben.
    Also, Christian died of a massive heart attack after a drinking binge while in Australia.

  20. Skippy says:

    [quote comment="318142"]I like this interpretation, except rather than the whole 06, I’ll bet the “flower” is Sawyer and Kate the little prince. This would fit nice if, as another poster suggests, Sawyer’s Dharma pseudo-name is LaFleur./quote]
    Fresh thoughts, Aggie Mo. I like it!

  21. i need answers says:

    ‘The three years’ began when the O6 were rescued by Penny and finishes as they’re boarding Flight 316. John Locke’s time difference is completely separate. Locke tells Widmore that he time travelled back to 1954 and met the young Widmore, and that time traveling happened 4 days ago (meaning 4 days before Locke and Widmore are talking in Tunisia). Then Locke spends several weeks traveling to meet/convince the O6 to return to The Island and is shortly thereafter 86ed by Ben.
    Also, Christian died of a massive heart attack after a drinking binge while in Australia.[/quote]

    Right…several weeks…not 3 years..not even 1 year…
    all im saying that this whole time hurleys in the mental institution..kates raising aaron..jacks goin nuts…sayids killing people for ben…the other losties spent 4 days on the island…..ur explaination stinks…PJ is on to something but there are still alot of time holes…as far as I can tell…Locke turned the wheel and has been off the Island..alive or dead..whatever..in total for no more than 6 months..leaving alot of questions…also..christian was murdered…noone on this show dies of “natural” causes..name 1…i doubt christian was the first

  22. shellonius funk says:

    i want it to be late 80s on the island…just for the sake of it being post-rousseau arrival and pre-purge.

    i guess we’ll know if it’s 70s or 80s by whether or not we see widmore; he left mid-80s.
    so he SAID.
    ;-)

  23. shellonius funk says:

    speaking of rousseau, i watched the pilot again last night, and it was definitely a younger rousseau on the looped recording.
    like many thing LOST, it’s neat to see how obvious something was all along once you know to look for it.

  24. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="318149"] ur explaination stinks…[/quote]

    Easy tiger. No one theory is better than any other at this point. That’s the reason we’re (not working and) posting to this blog.

    I happen to agree with Skippy, that Locke’s timeline is completely separate from that of the O6 after they left (i.e. what is 4 days to him is 3 years to them).

  25. Aggie Mo says:

    One big question I have about the time discrepancy: how much did the O6ers age relative to the Losties on the island? If 3 years of time passed for the O6ers, and only a few months for the island-bound Losties, would that mean that the O6ers aged more during that time so that, for example if Sawyer and Kate were the same age initially, now Kate is almost 3 years older?

    Not that it matters, but just another paradox resulting from the time travel. But I thought the producers said there would be “no time paradoxes”? :)

    [quote comment="318143"][quote comment="318134"]In watching the past season over and over like we all do…I still cant figure out the time on the Island compared to the time off….it had been 4 days since locke saw Widmore on the Island…he still has a broken leg…locke then visits everyone..still with a broken leg…ben kills him with a broken leg…so where does 3 years fit in anywhere…I understand that locke didnt see all the losties cronologically but it couldnt have taken place over 3 years because of his cast…then he dies and goes back to the island within say a week….am I wrong or doesnt that mean lockes 4 days on the Island = close to 3 years…

    Since Ben “jumped” ten months when he turned the FDW, we are guessing that Locke did as well. His “four days” before turning the FDW would have been early 2005. Since the O6’ers are all saying “three years” since they returned, we have to assume that when A316 takes off, it is early 2008. The jury is out on how LONG Locke was talking to the O6’ers, but I think we’re debating whether it was a few days, a few weeks or a few months. I think it is safe to say he was NOT off island for three years.

    IF, as we suspect, the RLOSTies ended up in DHARMA years, the 70’s, and have been living in “real time” (where a day actually lasts a day) since the flashes stopped, then we will figure out how long Locke was off-island (eventually). For example, if we learn they’ve been living in DHARMA time for two months, then I think it is likely that Locke spent two months in 2008.

    : ) P[/quote]

  26. i need answers says:

    haha…i knew someone was gonna call me out on the “ur explaination stinks” comment…that was just me being frustrated as im sure everyone gets trying to figure this stuff out…I do appologize it was alittle harsh..but i still stand by the fact that it makes no sense…half the time I just think its the writers actually trying to make nosense out of it and have nerds like us..talk about it all day and come up with crazy theories…

    anyone like the theory that Widmore is the co-pilot of the plane?

  27. Melissa says:

    LaFleur – it should be two words if it’s supposed to mean “the flower.” In addition to “The Little Prince,” it could also be an allusion to TS Eliot’s “Ulysses” (which Ben was reading on the plane) – the protagonist’s last name is Bloom. Doc Jensen’s EW write-up was pretty interesting addressing a link between Bloom and Sawyer.

    My thoughts – it had been almost (like months shy of) 3 years for the O6 before Locke even left the island. The island was moving on a completely different time-line than the rest of the world (i.e., back and forth and all over the place) until Locke fixed the wheel. It’s obvious that Jin has been with Dharma for a little bit when the O6’ers show back up, but we’ll all just have to wait until tonight to find out just how long that’s been.

    Wouldn’t Faraday’s experiment show that there is some difference b/w time on the island and time off the island, even when the island isn’t skipping? I think that even when we find out how long the crew has been with Dharma, we’re not going to know exactly how long Locke was off-island.

  28. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="318149"]‘The three years’ began when the O6 were rescued by Penny and finishes as they’re boarding Flight 316. John Locke’s time difference is completely separate. Locke tells Widmore that he time travelled back to 1954 and met the young Widmore, and that time traveling happened 4 days ago (meaning 4 days before Locke and Widmore are talking in Tunisia). Then Locke spends several weeks traveling to meet/convince the O6 to return to The Island and is shortly thereafter 86ed by Ben.
    Also, Christian died of a massive heart attack after a drinking binge while in Australia.[/quote]

    Right…several weeks…not 3 years..not even 1 year…
    all im saying that this whole time hurleys in the mental institution..kates raising aaron..jacks goin nuts…sayids killing people for ben…the other losties spent 4 days on the island…..ur explaination stinks…PJ is on to something but there are still alot of time holes…as far as I can tell…Locke turned the wheel and has been off the Island..alive or dead..whatever..in total for no more than 6 months..leaving alot of questions…also..christian was murdered…noone on this show dies of “natural” causes..name 1…i doubt christian was the first[/quote]

    you sound like you are LOST in time…

    my guess is that time has gone by 3 years on the island once the flashes stopped. It seems to me that time moves fine when the island is still, but when the island is moving then time gets bunked completely (which ultimately becomes the source for what is “time travel”) …Its already been said that results are unpredictable, but I’d say that there are certain points in time that are connected in some way (guess)…

    sep1954–some point in the 70’s—some point in 1988—sep2004—some point in 2007…

    all of these points in our real time are the same point in island time, if that makes any sense…

  29. Jason says:

    Anyone else think that Eloise was exiled along with Widmore?

  30. Christie says:

    My first thought was that “La Fleur” simply refers to the Orchid Station.

  31. Ben says:

    - creole
    – hootnannie
    – reiko anysworth
    – richard alpert tells of the last time he met jon locke.

  32. Mr. $tuart says:

    Post 19 stated that Christian died from a massive heart attack. The coroner who tells Jack that information ironically does not have an Australian accent. Maybe there is more to Christian’s death.

  33. i need answers says:

    Wheres Vincent!?!?!?!….The part of the story I don’t like is that the losties gave up looking for Vincent after a few flashes. They didn’t put posters up or anything, they just sat on the porch like a goon and waited for a flash. Those Losties gotta think ‘You got a pet. You got a responsibility. If your dog gets lost you don’t look for an hour then call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that fu@#in dog.

  34. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318149"]…noone on this show dies of “natural” causes..name 1…i doubt christian was the first[/quote]
    Admittedly, Abaddon could have been lying too, but Helen died of a brain aneurysm.

  35. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318191"] ‘You got a pet. You got a responsibility. If your dog gets lost you don’t look for an hour then call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that fu@#in dog.[/quote]
    That reminds me of a time when Adam Sandler was actually funny.

    [quote comment="318185"]- creole
    – hootnannie
    – reiko anysworth
    – richard alpert tells of the last time he met jon locke.[/quote]
    What?

  36. Skippy says:

    [quote comment="318149"]‘
    …..ur explaination stinks……also..christian was murdered…noone on this show dies of “natural” causes..name 1…i doubt christian was the first[/quote]
    ===============
    Sounds like you may need more than answers, friend.
    A heart attack brought on by binge drinking is an accidental death, not death by “natural causes.” But Mr. $tuart makes a good (and civil) point – there may be more to Christian’s death than the ‘facts’ we were given in ‘White Rabbit.’

  37. LaDeuche says:

    What dharma station were Carlos and Sayid’s cop lady at last episode (where he got the shotgun)? I remember seeing a flower (in Dharma style) on one of the folders/binders he was looking through. Could this be the reference “LeFluer” is aimed at?

    -je ne se pas

  38. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318196"][quote comment="318149"]…noone on this show dies of “natural” causes..name 1…i doubt christian was the first[/quote]
    Admittedly, Abaddon could have been lying too, but Helen died of a brain aneurysm.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Walt’s mom, Susan Lloyd died of a blood disorder.

  39. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318203"]What dharma station (where he got the shotgun)[/quote]
    The Hydra.

  40. Skippy says:

    Ben’s mother died in childbirth.

  41. i need answers says:

    TWO SHEA HAMMER-
    Admittedly, Abaddon could have been lying too, but Helen died of a brain aneurysm.

    But dont you find it funny that a “brain aneurysm” killed her..out of everything they could have picked….isnt that what happens to alot of other people in this show….like…charlotte..is it too much to assume helen has a role in the time travel somewhere…

    it just seems kinda silly that this huge player on the Island was just allowed to drink himself to death…granted maybe he had to die because that was hir role…but again..isnt that sort of a form of suicide..christian was murdered..possibly after his attempted suicide (drinking)…JMHO

  42. LaDeuche says:

    [quote comment="318207"][quote comment="318203"]What dharma station (where he got the shotgun)[/quote]
    The Hydra.[/quote]

    merci.

  43. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318209"]TWO SHEA HAMMER-
    Admittedly, Abaddon could have been lying too, but Helen died of a brain aneurysm.

    But dont you find it funny that a “brain aneurysm” killed her..out of everything they could have picked….isnt that what happens to alot of other people in this show….like…charlotte..is it too much to assume helen has a role in the time travel somewhere…

    it just seems kinda silly that this huge player on the Island was just allowed to drink himself to death…granted maybe he had to die because that was hir role…but again..isnt that sort of a form of suicide..christian was murdered..possibly after his attempted suicide (drinking)…JMHO[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    I think you may be onto something…I was just pointing out that other folks were ‘supposed’ to have died from natural causes. Any yes, you have a good theory that maybe Helen died of TD, seemed odd that they brought her back into the story.

  44. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318179"]Anyone else think that Eloise was exiled along with Widmore?[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Why yes, I brought it up either in the LADOJB thread or the 316 thread, don’t remember which, but I know it was ‘smacked’ around a bit.

    Don’t have any support for the theory yet, but I thought about it.

  45. i need answers says:

    I agree with widmore and Hawking being exiled or thrown off at the same time…I also strongly think that penny and faraday are brother and sister..there is a reason we havent seen or heard anything of Pennys Mom…also…I think we might just end up liking widmore..Christian tells locke “when has listening to ben ever got you anywhere worth a damn”…richards done with Ben too and has moved on to Locke…everything really points to Ben being the bad guy and Widmore is someone the writers geniously made us hate for the past 5 seasons and then have it all come together and us realize that we hate Widmore and think hes bad because of Ben

  46. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="318224"] I think we might just end up liking widmore..[/quote]

    Agreed. I think the last episode cleared up the bad guy (definitely Ben) from the potential good guy (Widmore). I don’t think we’ve ever seen Ben do anything genuinely selfless, without expecting something in return. (And yet people still give him the benefit of the doubt… aarrrgh!)

    Widmore is trying to look after Penny, and (perhaps) the island. But too many more episodes before the end to know for sure.

    4 hours and counting…

  47. neofunk says:

    I defo think it has always happened theory to be correct well except for Desmond.Especially with Abaddon bringing Locke to “where he needed to be” for his walkabout cause Whitmore knew that is the way it had always happened and he probably manipulated the others losties on to that flight also as he knew them from the 70’s on the island and Faraday would have provided all other information as he worked for him in the future to bring it back to the past but wouldn’t Faraday warn him of what is to come so maybe they are in the 80’s or there was not enogh time for Whitmore to change events

  48. neofunk says:

    Or Faraday told Whitmore because this the way things have always happened but because of course correction things cant be changed but Whitmore has always known the future and has been a step ahead and this has how he became so rich once off the island but knows he has to stick to the main blueprint and cant deviate to much sorry rattling on here.
    Hi all from Ireland love the show

  49. shellonius funk says:

    ok…now i’m starting to think it IS 70s (and not late 80s) based on pierre chang filming the arrow video. that’s assuming that miles is the crying baby.
    but in the comic con video, chang has knowledge of the future, i’m guessing from our LOSTies, and i’m starting to think that daniel’s previous appearance in the 70s/orchid era was a new flash in [current island] time that we will see forthcoming.

  50. Jen says:

    i’m starting to think that daniel’s previous appearance in the 70s/orchid era was a new flash in [current island] time that we will see forthcoming.[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    I agree & think that’s when Daniel tells a young Charlotte to never come back to the island.

    I believe it will be revealed eventually that Daniel & Penny are brother & sister. (mentioned in comment 45)

  51. PJSander says:

    For those of you who have not yet been bludgeoned by the sad concept of reality, I will try to let you down easy…

    According to ABC.com, next Wednesday, they are showing the season premiere of Scrubs (and a second episode) at 8pm and the enhanced version of LaFleur in the 9pm slot.

    Looks like no new episode of LOST next week, which, well, really bites.

    I can feel the withdrawal symptoms kicking in already!

    : ) P

  52. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318224"]I agree with widmore and Hawking being exiled or thrown off at the same time…I also strongly think that penny and faraday are brother and sister.. [/quote]
    _________________________________
    As I’ve posted before, I DON’T think Widmore and Hawking were exiled together, at least not NECESSARILY. Widmore seems to be an outsider off island, and Hawking seems to be the keeper of the Lamp post and an island insider. I see her as more of an “off-island-on-assignment” Dharma/Other.
    I DO however, agree that it is likely that Daniel and Penny are related, but maybe more likely cousins, as I agree with those who have said that Eloise and Charles are likely brother and sister.

  53. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318259"]For those of you who have not yet been bludgeoned by the sad concept of reality, I will try to let you down easy…

    According to ABC.com, next Wednesday, they are showing the season premiere of Scrubs (and a second episode) at 8pm and the enhanced version of LaFleur in the 9pm slot.

    Looks like no new episode of LOST next week, which, well, really bites.

    I can feel the withdrawal symptoms kicking in already!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ******************************************

    Ooooh ouch, that hurts. Well i guess if i can hold out for 8 months then i can probably deal with an extra week off.

  54. intolost says:

    Maybe it refers to Pepe le Pew, the skunk. His girlfriend he always chased around with a flower was Penelope Pussycat. Will we see Penny tonight?

    No, really. I vote for the Orchid Station, too. I think we’ll see more of what was going on down there during Dharma times with Dr. Candle!

  55. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318274"]Maybe it refers to Pepe le Pew, the skunk. His girlfriend he always chased around with a flower was Penelope Pussycat. Will we see Penny tonight?

    No, really. I vote for the Orchid Station, too. I think we’ll see more of what was going on down there during Dharma times with Dr. Candle![/quote]
    _________________________________
    Or maybe we will find out that Dr Candle/Wickman/Halliwax/Chang’s new name is Pepe LaFleur. :)

  56. duke says:

    [quote comment="318185"]- creole
    – hootnannie
    – reiko anysworth
    – richard alpert tells of the last time he met jon locke.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Stealing from EW and Doc again. At least have the decency to state WHERE you got something. Also this is supposed to be a no spoiler blog.

  57. Found says:

    Just popped into my head, that maybe we will find out that Locke might try to go back to get Helen now that he knows when she died. In fact, we might find that wouldn’t it be just like Locke’s “luck” that he may have been the reason she dies? How tragically ironic that would be…

  58. DocH says:

    [quote]Just popped into my head, that maybe we will find out that Locke might try to go back to get Helen now that he knows when she died. [/quote]
    Are you suggesting that he turn the wheel again – just after he stabilized the violent time shifts? He was dead in the real world… the island(s) brought him back to life. The last time he left the island, the island sent him home in a wheelchair – just the way he arrived. IMO, if the island sends him home again – it’ll be in a coffin… just the way he arrived. Maybe that is how they will end the series in May 2010, Locke makes the ultimate sacrifice – to save everyone else. (Man of Faith)

  59. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318259"]
    Looks like no new episode of LOST next week, which, well, really bites.
    [/quote]
    Will posted that above.

  60. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318277"][quote comment="318185"]- creole
    – hootnannie
    – reiko anysworth
    – richard alpert tells of the last time he met jon locke.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Stealing from EW and Doc again. At least have the decency to state WHERE you got something. Also this is supposed to be a no spoiler blog.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    I was wondering what the hell that meant. You are right, this is supposed to be a NO SPOILER blog. It’s in the RULES at the bottom. I hope you read my response on the last post. No harm intended.:)

  61. Hammer says:

    What a tease…back of statue….time flash…damn it!

  62. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318287"]What a tease…back of statue….time flash…damn it![/quote]
    Didn’t look like a sphinx though, at least not my image of one.

    Sawyer=Lafleur

  63. Hammer says:

    Did a freeze from on the dvr…appears to have ears like a dog….more dog references?

  64. lost4ever says:

    Charlotte Goodspeed?

  65. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318287"]What a tease…back of statue….time flash…damn it![/quote]

    That’s exactly what I text my sister!!! OMG! NO LIE!

  66. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318291"][quote comment="318287"]What a tease…back of statue….time flash…damn it![/quote]

    That’s exactly what I text my sister!!! OMG! NO LIE![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    GMTA Tasha…not leah. :)

  67. Slimee says:

    Ugh, this episode is giving me a headache man. Just a million questions have just been asked and they just keep truckin along. 3 years later, 3 years earlier, we don’t even know WHEN they are…This is too much for one episode…It’s also pretty hard to accept that they arent in the present any longer, and can’t return to the present…

  68. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318290"]Charlotte Goodspeed?[/quote]
    Scratch that. Is Amy Horace’s sister and is she pregnant from Sawyer?

  69. Hammer says:

    New girl Annie? Ben send goons to kill her boyfriend?

  70. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318294"][quote comment="318290"]Charlotte Goodspeed?[/quote]
    Scratch that. Is Amy Horace’s sister and is she pregnant from Sawyer?[/quote]

    ____

    Are you sure? LOL

    What is GMTA mean???

  71. Tasha says:

    NVM….la la la.

  72. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318294"][quote comment="318290"]Charlotte Goodspeed?[/quote]
    Scratch that. Is Amy Horace’s sister and is she pregnant from Sawyer?[/quote]
    That’s what I was thinking too! Oh rats, it’s a boy – not baby Charlotte then.

  73. Hammer says:

    Great Minds Think Alike.

  74. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318298"][quote comment="318294"][quote comment="318290"]Charlotte Goodspeed?[/quote]
    Scratch that. Is Amy Horace’s sister and is she pregnant from Sawyer?[/quote]
    That’s what I was thinking too! Oh rats, it’s a boy – not baby Charlotte then.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    It’s a boy? WTF

    GMTA =Great Minds Think Alike

  75. lost4ever says:

    What happened to Olivia Goodspeed? Did she die during childbirth?

  76. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318301"]What happened to Olivia Goodspeed? Did she die during childbirth?[/quote]

    Nah. Everyone was good. Charlotte was so cute! WTH is going on?

  77. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318302"][quote comment="318301"]What happened to Olivia Goodspeed? Did she die during childbirth?[/quote]

    Nah. Everyone was good. Charlotte was so cute! WTH is going on?[/quote]
    ______________________
    That wasn’t Olivia, Tasha, that was Amy. (who’s Amy??)

  78. lost4ever says:

    There really is a working sub and it appears Faraday has not yet delivered his message to Charlotte.

  79. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318304"]There really is a working sub and it appears Faraday has not yet delivered his message to Charlotte.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    He said he wasn’t going to.

  80. Hammer says:

    Starting to look like Ben’s kharma is the reason for the childbirth issues.

    Dan kept mumbling that he’s “not gonna tell her”. Think he will? Did it always happen?

  81. RGS says:

    Could the boy be Desmond?

    This Show is So-Damn-Good!

  82. Slimee says:

    Well we just met baby Charolette. And our good buddy Richard’s back

  83. Hammer says:

    Uh oh…a love square?

  84. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318306"]Starting to look like Ben’s kharma is the reason for the childbirth issues.
    [/quote]
    Yes, I thought that last year.

  85. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318310"]Uh oh…a love square?[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Yes, and I really think Kate is going back for Sawyer, not for Jack. Could get ugly…or at least interesting!

  86. Slimee says:

    Is anyone else mad about this episode?

  87. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318311"][quote comment="318306"]Starting to look like Ben’s kharma is the reason for the childbirth issues.
    [/quote]
    Yes, I thought that last year.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I know…I don’t remember who started it…but we agreed about it.

  88. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318313"]Is anyone else mad about this episode?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No….bugt let me guess, too many new questions…not enough answers….

  89. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318312"][quote comment="318310"]Uh oh…a love square?[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Yes, and I really think Kate is going back for Sawyer, not for Jack. Could get ugly…or at least interesting![/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Especially if Kate is pregnant as suggested by some last week. And what if Juliet decides to have a baby now she delivered one on the island.

  90. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318315"][quote comment="318313"]Is anyone else mad about this episode?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No….bugt let me guess, too many new questions…not enough answers….[/quote]
    ————
    I loved it. IMO, much better than last week.

  91. Roze2521 says:

    Could it be Charlie

  92. Slimee says:

    [quote comment="318315"][quote comment="318313"]Is anyone else mad about this episode?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No….bugt let me guess, too many new questions…not enough answers….[/quote]

    that and just too many characters. I feel like we’re following too many people now. it’s just way too confusing

  93. Rita says:

    LOVED IT! LOVED IT!

  94. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318319"][quote comment="318315"][quote comment="318313"]Is anyone else mad about this episode?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No….bugt let me guess, too many new questions…not enough answers….[/quote]

    that and just too many characters. I feel like we’re following too many people now. it’s just way too confusing[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Take a deep breath, in and out….watch it again….you’ll get thru it. :)

  95. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318280"][quote comment="318259"]
    Looks like no new episode of LOST next week, which, well, really bites.
    [/quote]
    Will posted that above.[/quote]

    * * * * * * * * * *

    Oops, sorry. I don’t read “above the fold” because I don’t want to be spoiled.

    : ) P

  96. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318319"]

    that and just too many characters. I feel like we’re following too many people now. it’s just way too confusing[/quote]
    Really? I didn’t find it confusing at all. When Sawyer meets Jack, Kate, and Hurley ( No Sun or Sayid, yet ) it is 1977.

  97. Hammer says:

    BTW all of you that think Alpert is the leader….looks like he was in charge during Dharma…not Widmore. Looks like Alpert exiled Charles….IMO.

  98. lost4ever says:

    Humor appeared to be back with the Sawyer episode. Not sure what was my favorite nickname ( probably Enos ), but my favorite line was “Your buddy, the guy with the eyeliner.”

  99. Hammer says:

    “Your buddy out there with the eyeliner,…”

    Nodding to us coo coo fans.

  100. Tasha says:

    I am not sure about this episode….I was waiting for Sawyer to say, Jacob sent us. LOL. Then Richard would be like What What???

  101. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318324"]BTW all of you that think Alpert is the leader….looks like he was in charge during Dharma…not Widmore. Looks like Alpert exiled Charles….IMO.[/quote]
    Yes, and that was 1974. So when, if ever, was Widmore the leader?

  102. PJSander says:

    I imagine for the “casual” viewer, that episode was infuriating. They wouldn’t remember Horace, would have missed the “little Charlotte” reference and get muddled in the three years earlier / later jumps.

    For me, though, it was wonderful. I still want to know where Bernard and Rose (and Vincent) are though!

    What happened to Olivia? Horace and Olivia were together when Ben was born (or at least we were led to believe that) and appeared to be together when Ben was brought to the island as a boy – which ought to be AROUND this same time period. Ideas?

    : ) P

  103. Tasha says:

    I also was waiting to hear the name of Goodspeed’s baby. I am more confused than ever.

  104. Tasha says:

    I also was waiting to hear the name of Goodspeed’s baby. I am more confused than ever.

    Also…where were Miles and Dan at in the future. Or the current time. Dan is acting like a crazy lunatic obsessed with a young child! (You know how that would look)

  105. Stymie says:

    I’m guessing that Faraday figures out how to turn the daisy wheel and return everybody to the rightful time.

  106. PJSander says:

    Do we have a definitive frame of reference as to the year on island? The only thing I heard was Juliet’s GUESS of 70’s or 80’s.

    : ) P

  107. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318330"]I also was waiting to hear the name of Goodspeed’s baby. I am more confused than ever.[/quote]
    I think they didn’t reveal that on purpose – will probably be a shocker of sorts. Any guesses?

  108. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318329"]I imagine for the “casual” viewer, that episode was infuriating. They wouldn’t remember Horace, would have missed the “little Charlotte” reference and get muddled in the three years earlier / later jumps.

    For me, though, it was wonderful. I still want to know where Bernard and Rose (and Vincent) are though!

    What happened to Olivia? Horace and Olivia were together when Ben was born (or at least we were led to believe that) and appeared to be together when Ben was brought to the island as a boy – which ought to be AROUND this same time period. Ideas?

    : ) P[/quote]

    _________

    That’s a good point. Hmmmm. I am pretty sure he was with his wife at this time. So is Ben wandering around already and Sawyer and them haven’t noticed? Throws away alot of my theories about Horace being Annie or Charlotte’s dad. He had a boy. Wow. I want answers!

  109. tessa says:

    Could the baby boy really be Charlie? Perhaps he left on the sub? And whats with Sawyer and Juliet? And uh oh….here comes “Freckles”…I’m a bit confused..However I’m going to watch it again tomorrow…I’m new to this blog, so please bear with me, but I have watched the show since day one!

  110. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318332"]I’m guessing that Faraday figures out how to turn the daisy wheel and return everybody to the rightful time.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Could be…but what the hell is a daisy wheel? LMAO…

  111. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318333"]Do we have a definitive frame of reference as to the year on island? The only thing I heard was Juliet’s GUESS of 70’s or 80’s.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Sawyer said to Juliet that it was 1974 at one point, so it bounced between that and 1977.

  112. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318333"]Do we have a definitive frame of reference as to the year on island? The only thing I heard was Juliet’s GUESS of 70’s or 80’s.

    : ) P[/quote]
    On the sub dock, Sawyer says it’s 1974 and asks her to stay for 2 weeks.

  113. Tasha says:

    I meant on post 108….that he would have been with his wife until sometime after Ben arrived. After the way he talks about how long it takes to get over someone, seems like he ISN’T or HASN’T been with her yet. If she died or they broke up he would have a better idea on the answer to that. JMO

  114. DharmaGreg says:

    Anybody think that Amy has been seeing her dead husband walking around the island. What would the others want with his body? I also suspect that burying the bodies has something to do with something. Didn’t Keamy’s crew bury Russou and Carl?

    Oh, and I gotta give it to Jin-his english has really come a long way.

  115. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318340"]On the sub dock, Sawyer says it’s 1974 and asks her to stay for 2 weeks.[/quote]

    [quote comment="318339"]
    Sawyer said to Juliet that it was 1974 at one point, so it bounced between that and 1977.[/quote]

    Thank you! I was feeling LOST! LOL.

    : ) P

  116. Vaughn K says:

    sun and sayid are in 1977 with the rest i think and i think i know why ben did not flash with them because if he flashed to 1977 than there would be kid ben and adult ben in the same time period which would kinda mess up some things

    also the four toed statue was huge so there is no way that it just fell over and even if it did, it wouldnt just disappear, it wouldnt ever just deteriorate so i think someone took it down…but who put it up?

  117. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318342"]
    Oh, and I gotta give it to Jin-his english has really come a long way.[/quote]
    Did you notice the difference between 1974 and 1977. His English was much better, but then again, he has been around Dharma people for 3 years.

  118. Tasha says:

    Osiris Statue…what do ya’ll think???

  119. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318341"]I meant on post 108….that he would have been with his wife until sometime after Ben arrived. After the way he talks about how long it takes to get over someone, seems like he ISN’T or HASN’T been with her yet. If she died or they broke up he would have a better idea on the answer to that. JMO[/quote]
    I’m confused. Horace was married to Olivia years before he was married to Amy, correct?

  120. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318348"][quote comment="318341"]I meant on post 108….that he would have been with his wife until sometime after Ben arrived. After the way he talks about how long it takes to get over someone, seems like he ISN’T or HASN’T been with her yet. If she died or they broke up he would have a better idea on the answer to that. JMO[/quote]
    I’m confused. Horace was married to Olivia years before he was married to Amy, correct?[/quote]
    ___

    That’s the confusing part! I don’t think he was with Olivia yet. Something is wrong here! If this is after Olivia….then where is Ben?

  121. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318337"]I’m new to this blog, so please bear with me, but I have watched the show since day one![/quote]
    Welcome and for TIPS on posting, check out last week’s THREAD, The Life and Death of JB, comment number 464.

  122. Anthony says:

    The most important scene in this show is the extremely large statue on the island. This is likely Anubis. Egyptian God of the Afterlife. This is important, because regardless of what people think about Richard’s natural look that he has… he looks Egyptian. The hyroglyphics have been used throughout the show… that statue validates it. Just something to think about… I wouldn’t be surprised if Richard and Jacob are both ancient Egyptian.

  123. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318347"]Osiris Statue…what do ya’ll think???[/quote]
    LOVE IT!!!

    Osiris (Greek language, also Usiris; the Egyptian language name is variously transliterated Asar, Aser, Ausar, Ausir, Wesir, or Ausare) was an Egyptian god, usually called the god of the Afterlife.

    Osiris is one of the oldest gods for whom records have been found; one of the oldest known attestations of his name is on the Palermo Stone of around 2500 BC. He was widely worshiped until the suppression of the Egyptian religion during the Christian era.[1][2]The information we have on the myths of Osiris is derived from allusions contained in the Pyramid Texts (ca. 2400 BC), later New Kingdom source documents such as the Shabaka Stone and the Contending of Horus and Seth, and much later, in narrative style from the writings of Greek authors including Plutarch[3] and Diodorus Siculus.[4]

    Osiris was not only a merciful judge of the dead in the afterlife, but also the underworld agency that granted all life, including sprouting vegetation and the fertile flooding of the Nile River. The Kings of Egypt were associated with Osiris in death — as Osiris rose from the dead they would, in union with him, inherit eternal life through a process of imitative magic. By the New Kingdom all people, not just pharaohs, were believed to be associated with Osiris at death if they incurred the costs of the assimilation rituals.[5]

    Osiris was at times considered the oldest son of the Earth god, Geb,[6] and the sky goddess, Nut as well as being brother and husband of Isis, with Horus being considered his posthumously begotten son.[6]

    Osiris was later associated with the name Khenti-Amentiu, which means ‘Foremost of the Westerners’ a reference to his kingship in the land of the dead.

  124. kindly says:

    Do you think that maybe the statue is of Anubis (god of the dead)?

  125. kindly says:

    Doh! Anthony beat me to it! :P

  126. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318349"]
    That’s the confusing part! I don’t think he was with Olivia yet. Something is wrong here! If this is after Olivia….then where is Ben?[/quote]
    Just because we didn’t see young Ben in this episode doesn’t mean he isn’t there. This is 1974/1977 well after the birth of Ben Linus off the island.

  127. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318351"]The most important scene in this show is the extremely large statue on the island. This is likely Anubis. Egyptian God of the Afterlife. This is important, because regardless of what people think about Richard’s natural look that he has… he looks Egyptian. The hyroglyphics have been used throughout the show… that statue validates it. Just something to think about… I wouldn’t be surprised if Richard and Jacob are both ancient Egyptian.[/quote]
    On the Money. Here’s the wiki with pics.:)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis

  128. Tasha says:

    Before he came to the Island, Horace was driving with his wife Olivia 32 miles outside of Portland when he came upon Roger Linus carrying Emily Linus on the side of the road, right after Ben had been prematurely born. He wanted to take Ben’s dying mother to the hospital, but she died before he had the chance to. (“The Man Behind the Curtain”)

    ————-

    Olivia and Horace were involved with the DHARMA Initiative. Olivia worked on the Island as an elementary school teacher. Both Ben and Annie were in a class that she taught.(“The Man Behind the Curtain”) When the Hostiles attacked, Olivia reacted as though it was a not uncommon occurrence, and had a plan for how the students were to lock the doors and take cover. Olivia also matter-of-factly picked up a gun, and showed great proficiency with how she carried it.

    ————-

    SO maybe Olivia wasn’t the same Olivia that was his wife. Does he ever say that? Im gonna look at the transcripts!!

    ALl this is from Lostpedia. DOn’t want to get in trouble!

  129. PJSander says:

    Here is the wiki page about Ankh – the necklace heiroglyph that Amy’s husband had… it means eternal life!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh

    : ) P

  130. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318357"]

    ALl this is from Lostpedia. DOn’t want to get in trouble![/quote]
    Yes, I posted Olivia’s page in comment 82. She was Horace’s wife.

  131. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318357"]SO maybe Olivia wasn’t the same Olivia that was his wife. Does he ever say that? Im gonna look at the transcripts!!

    ALl this is from Lostpedia. DOn’t want to get in trouble![/quote]

    Horace’s wife tonight was AMY, who was formerly married to and widow of Paul. Olivia was definitely BEFORE Amy, we just don’t know what happened to her.

    : ) P

  132. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318358"] Amy’s husband
    [/quote]
    Jacob.:) LOL

  133. Anthony says:

    That’s alright Kind! :P At least I am not alone… think about this too… when Amy’s husband dies, she takes the Ankh from around his neck… the cross with the loop on the top. Horace pulls this out of his pocket when he is talking to Sawyer. The Ankh means “eternal life” in egyptian. Couple that with Anubis, Guardian of the Afterlife, and you have an island bread for Pharaoh. They are just basically throwing it in our faces… this thing is chock full of Ancient Egypt.

  134. Hammer says:

    Yes, Anthony….love it more than Osiris (sorry Tasha…I think the statue has the jackyl head as opposed to the human one of Osiris).

  135. UNLV says:

    Anyone else live in Phoenix? The ABC feed was frozen for the first 20 minutes. How long until the episode is available on abc.com??

  136. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318364"]Anyone else live in Phoenix? The ABC feed was frozen for the first 20 minutes. How long until the episode is available on abc.com??[/quote]
    Sucks for you. It should be on abc.com tomorrow, I believe 5 a.m.

  137. UNLV says:

    Thanks Lost4ever. Now I am only lost for a night.

  138. Hammer says:

    Well dogs seem to be a theme. I know this sounds stupid, but the one time they showed Jacob, his hair was done in a fashion that looked sort of like dog ears hanging down….I brought it up way back when it aired.

    Is Jacob supposed to be like Anubis? Is the statue Jacob?

  139. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318363"]Yes, Anthony….love it more than Osiris (sorry Tasha…I think the statue has the jackyl head as opposed to the human one of Osiris).[/quote]

    _____
    YES YES YES!! I agree!

    And YES I get it now about Horace and Olivia and Amy. Transcript didn’t say he said anything about her. Sorry I missed that post lost4ever.

  140. Hammer says:

    Dare I say it….eternal life…whisperers?

  141. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318369"]Dare I say it….eternal life…whisperers?[/quote]

    That’s what *I* was thinkin’ Lincoln!

    : ) P

  142. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318370"][quote comment="318369"]Dare I say it….eternal life…whisperers?[/quote]

    That’s what *I* was thinkin’ Lincoln!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Some folks think this episode wasn’t good….my mind is absolutley spinning…

  143. Herkey says:

    Don’t post here much, but love reading everyone’s ideas.
    I was wondering if anyone notice that Juliet looked pregnant when she was in the kitchen with Sawyer?

  144. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318372"]
    Some folks think this episode wasn’t good….my mind is absolutley spinning…[/quote]

    This is the first time EVER that I felt like I had to rewatch immediately. So I think I am off to do so. I will check back periodically and see what else has been discussed! LOL.

    : ) P

  145. JLV says:

    Anyone think the Asian kid is the son of the guy in the Orientation videos…i think all of these kids are from the island

  146. sector7 says:

    I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?

  147. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318367"]Is Jacob supposed to be like Anubis? Is the statue Jacob?[/quote]
    After reading the wiki page, my knowledge of ancient Egypt comes from playing the computer game Pharoah, I would say Alpert is like Anubis and Jacob would be Osiris.

  148. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    thats what i thought at first but now that people mentioned anubis i definately think thats what it is…here is the link for what we saw tonight

  149. LINS says:

    i think just because richard came into the camp to talk to horace doesn’t mean that the others didn’t have a leader, or that he was their leader…he always seemed to have an authoritative role, even when ben was leading them…

    so if the episode ended in 1977, there is a good chance that widmore is still on the island and possibly their leader. since richard looked so clean cut tonight, i’m going to pose the theory that whenever widmore is exiled, the others have to live more primitively than ever before until closer to 15 years later when the purge takes place and they can be in power again…it’s a rough theory, but i’m working on it :)

    also, obviously dan had been there before in the 70’s or 80’s to warn charlotte about the island…now he’s back again and he says he won’t warn her…is he just living his life in a loop, keeping him between 1974 and 2005? i know that sounds a little crazy, but maybe? how does that all work? perhaps this is how alpert doesn’t age?

  150. Ben says:

    Anubis was the god to protect the dead and bring them to the afterlife.

    Um John Locke, Christian Shepard?

  151. TanziTwo says:

    Horace and Olivia – she died during child birth.

    Amy and Paul – he died at the hands of Alpert’s aboriginal warriors.

    Horace and Amy (years later) – found a relationship in the aftermath. Made a baby.

    Horace was a tree-huggin hippy punk. Then he found booze and dynamite. Now he is a kindred soul to Sawyer (and me).

    PS: I don’t know a single woman Juliet’s age that doesn’t look like she has a ‘baby-bump’… I think they call that a POOCH! Comes with staring down 40.

  152. sector7 says:

    I also think the hair on the statue does not look egyptian. It would be straighter.

  153. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Not me…no shirt/boob cover. :)

  154. LINS says:

    [quote comment="318372"][quote comment="318370"][quote comment="318369"]Dare I say it….eternal life…whisperers?[/quote]

    That’s what *I* was thinkin’ Lincoln!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Some folks think this episode wasn’t good….my mind is absolutley spinning…[/quote]

    ***************

    i agree, very good writing, lots to ponder…. :)

  155. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318378"][quote comment="318367"]Is Jacob supposed to be like Anubis? Is the statue Jacob?[/quote]
    After reading the wiki page, my knowledge of ancient Egypt comes from playing the computer game Pharoah, I would say Alpert is like Anubis and Jacob would be Osiris.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Gotcha, I can buy that.

  156. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318384"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Not me…no shirt/boob cover. :)[/quote]
    ___________________
    I don’t get it.. For real though, that statue has some nice curves and long flowing hair.

  157. Vaughn K says:

    yea i read the wikipedia page about osiris and hammer posted something before about him having a son named horus…the writers dont come up with random names for characters so if jacob is supposed to be our “osiris” than our horrace definately is going to play a big role in everything eventually IMO

  158. duke says:

    [quote comment="318301"]What happened to Olivia Goodspeed? Did she die during childbirth?[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Was olivia sometime after Amy or before? So however the baby is is about 37 years old when losties first arrived. We know that this episode was between 1974-1977. Do we know Ben’s birthdate? I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT THE BABY IS BEN!!!!!!!!!!! He may have been born (my guess) is about 5-7 years before this putting him in the 32-34 year old range when losties first arrived (about 36-38 when he turned the wheel). Maybe even up to 10 years before. But it at least had to be about the same time frame but I have always viewed him as older than Charlotte who appearred about 3-4 years old when we saw her. The baby has to be someone we have already seen. I will ponder and get back with my guess when I can rationalize who it may be.

  159. wally p says:

    YES!…Hey did anybody notice that when Sawyer and Jin sat on the bench at Dharma, that Sawyer said “Annie Locke?”

    Wooooo!Too much tonite! I’ll see you cats next week when I catch up! Already saw some nice posts just skimming through tho…later…

  160. fitty says:

    definitely way too many people for the casual viewer aka someone who has seen episode but doesn’t research it for hours a night. I will say that things are starting to come full circle, but I still don’t expect answers at all. I think one of the last episodes of the season will all be able Ben and/or Widmore which will clear up alot.

    word.

  161. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?

  162. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318390"]YES!…Hey did anybody notice that when Sawyer and Jin sat on the bench at Dharma, that Sawyer said “Annie Locke?”

    Wooooo!Too much tonite! I’ll see you cats next week when I catch up! Already saw some nice posts just skimming through tho…later…[/quote]
    ____________________________
    You sure he didn’t say “Any luck?”?

  163. duke says:

    [quote comment="318344"]sun and sayid are in 1977 with the rest i think and i think i know why ben did not flash with them because if he flashed to 1977 than there would be kid ben and adult ben in the same time period which would kinda mess up some things

    also the four toed statue was huge so there is no way that it just fell over and even if it did, it wouldnt just disappear, it wouldnt ever just deteriorate so i think someone took it down…but who put it up?[/quote]
    _________________________________
    It probably got blown up in coming war. Then the pieces disappearred into the water.

  164. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318394"][quote comment="318390"]YES!…Hey did anybody notice that when Sawyer and Jin sat on the bench at Dharma, that Sawyer said “Annie Locke?”

    Wooooo!Too much tonite! I’ll see you cats next week when I catch up! Already saw some nice posts just skimming through tho…later…[/quote]
    ____________________________
    You sure he didn’t say “Any luck?”?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    That’s twice this season. LMAO. Remeber when Ben asked Hawking “Any luck?” and someone thought HE said “Annie Locke” to her?

  165. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.

  166. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Even still, don’t egyptian statues usually have super straight hair?

  167. Abaddon says:

    That statue has to be Anubis…i dont need to say anything else about the egyptian god you guys already covered it….. lets also remember that our black rock slaves were from egypt so we have an egyptian statue, egyption hieroglyph, and a guy who looks egyptian and legitimately doesnt age. (richard) so putting some pieces together, Juliet said Richard “always been here” so he was probably incharge or helped build our massive statue. Still dont know where the egyptian slaves on the black rock fit into this or the hieroglyphics fit in but im going to guess historical things that happened in egypt may just happen on our island. The plagues? that may be a stretch but we’re on a christian and ancient egypt religious base right now and the plagues is where those two cultures met.

  168. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="318395"][quote comment="318344"]sun and sayid are in 1977 with the rest i think and i think i know why ben did not flash with them because if he flashed to 1977 than there would be kid ben and adult ben in the same time period which would kinda mess up some things

    also the four toed statue was huge so there is no way that it just fell over and even if it did, it wouldnt just disappear, it wouldnt ever just deteriorate so i think someone took it down…but who put it up?[/quote]
    _________________________________
    It probably got blown up in coming war. Then the pieces disappearred into the water.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    that would have to be some serious fire power to blow something that big up…im pretty sure they arent going to have tanks rolling around the island or packing rocket launchers

  169. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]
    _________________________
    I don’t see any dog ears, just hair and then something across the top.

  170. Skweez says:

    I thought that was a statue of Vincent! lol!

  171. DharmaGreg says:

    that would have to be some serious fire power to blow something that big up…im pretty sure they arent going to have tanks rolling around the island or packing rocket launchers

    ———————————–

    Really? Time travel ok. Reincarnation ok. Smoke monsters ok. Hatches, crippled people walking, FDW, etc. But tanks and rocket launchers? Now that’s crazy talk…

  172. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318401"][quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]
    _________________________
    I don’t see any dog ears, just hair and then something across the top.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Here it is:

    http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/5ec86b30a63635da25c16b67748e0694

  173. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]

    THAT STATUE DOES NOT HAVE POINTED JACKYL EARS!

    If anything we should be looking up Gods like Sekhmet. Those are ears for sure…but not tall and pointy. Also that is a female. What do you think he/she is holding?

  174. Skweez says:

    When Sawyer spoke with Guyliner and told him the John Locke story, I automatically assumed that was the reason John got an invitation to go to the Mittlelos Laboratory summer camp. However, according to Lostpedia, Locke was 16 when he got the invite, which means it would have been 1973 at the latest. Could Lostpedia be wrong, and the talk with Sawyer is what prompted Guyliner to pursue Locke once again???

    When Locke So, after the conversation

  175. sector7 says:

    Ok, ok. I do see some pointy ears. Looks like it’s holding an ankh in it’s right hand.

  176. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318407"]

    THAT STATUE DOES NOT HAVE POINTED JACKYL EARS!
    [/quote]
    I definitely see pointed ears with a mohawk. But look at the hands, the statue is holding something.

  177. Abaddon says:

    Hey man im not above thinking the statue is vincent cuz who knows where the dog is at? at btw…. that statue is massive and the amount of man power, tools, and time it would take to build that for that time period assuming its a long time ago, would take close to 30-50 years maybe longer

  178. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318409"]Ok, ok. I do see some pointy ears. Looks like it’s holding an ankh in it’s right hand.[/quote]
    That’s it, an ankh. Now who holds an ankh?

  179. Hammer says:

    I am guessing that the left hand is holding the Ankh. Many of the Egyptian gods seem to hold them.

  180. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318411"] that statue is massive and the amount of man power, tools, and time it would take to build that for that time period assuming its a long time ago, would take close to 30-50 years maybe longer[/quote]
    I think ancient egyptians could handle that.:) Were the slaves on the Black Rock from Egypt? I didn’t know that was ever mentioned.

  181. PJSander says:

    I am not really suggesting that it is true, but from the back, the statue looks like Juliet. In another life, I made a living watching bodies, and that is whom I saw immediately.

    Having said that, Juliet does not have Dr. Spock / doberman pinscher ears. But the attire does look like a long sweater. IDK.

    The time they were in could have been thousands of years ago, why is it hard to believe that the statue would crumble? Have you SEEN the ruins of ancient Rome? And that city isn’t MOVING! LOL

    : ) P

  182. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318407"][quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]

    THAT STATUE DOES NOT HAVE POINTED JACKYL EARS!

    If anything we should be looking up Gods like Sekhmet. Those are ears for sure…but not tall and pointy. Also that is a female. What do you think he/she is holding?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I’m down with Tasha. I think it’s Sekhmet. She has a lion head. Smaller ears than Anubis. And holding in ankh in her right hand.

  183. Hammer says:

    I meant right hand. And it seem MANY gods carried them.

  184. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318408"]When Sawyer spoke with Guyliner and told him the John Locke story, I automatically assumed that was the reason John got an invitation to go to the Mittlelos Laboratory summer camp. However, according to Lostpedia, Locke was 16 when he got the invite, which means it would have been 1973 at the latest. Could Lostpedia be wrong, and the talk with Sawyer is what prompted Guyliner to pursue Locke once again???
    [/quote]
    That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that. Lostpedia may be wrong, after all, as a good friend of mine told me, it is written by fans like us.

  185. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318412"][quote comment="318409"]Ok, ok. I do see some pointy ears. Looks like it’s holding an ankh in it’s right hand.[/quote]
    That’s it, an ankh. Now who holds an ankh?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    Many egyptian gods hold ankhs. Not just one.

  186. fitty says:

    first off, how is that online already? Secondly, that is DEFINITELY not a Mohawk.

  187. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318418"][quote comment="318408"]When Sawyer spoke with Guyliner and told him the John Locke story, I automatically assumed that was the reason John got an invitation to go to the Mittlelos Laboratory summer camp. However, according to Lostpedia, Locke was 16 when he got the invite, which means it would have been 1973 at the latest. Could Lostpedia be wrong, and the talk with Sawyer is what prompted Guyliner to pursue Locke once again???
    [/quote]
    That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that. Lostpedia may be wrong, after all, as a good friend of mine told me, it is written by fans like us.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Moot point. Richard knew about Locke since before he was born. Something other than Sawyer’s conversation could have been the reason to invite him to camp.

  188. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318416"] And holding in ankh in her right hand.[/quote]
    Half of them are holding the ankh.

  189. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318407"][quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]

    THAT STATUE DOES NOT HAVE POINTED JACKYL EARS!

    If anything we should be looking up Gods like Sekhmet. Those are ears for sure…but not tall and pointy. Also that is a female. What do you think he/she is holding?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I can buy that it’s her. But for now, I’m sticking with gods of death/eternal life….whisperers….

  190. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318421"]
    Moot point. [/quote]
    Not for all of us that like to discuss things on blogs.

  191. helen says:

    Luv reading everyone’s posts..
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the “truce”? The Others appeared to have killed Paul and yet Richard appears and has determined that if two of his guys are missing, then Dharma broke the truce. And why does Paul’s dead body fulfill what the Others need in retribution (or return)? Wouldn’t it seem that the Others broke the truce if they killed a Dharma member first and seemed well on their way to killing Amy, too?
    Could the baby boy be Farraday?

  192. fitty says:

    As much as I hate Sawyer, it is nice to see that he is happy

  193. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318416"][quote comment="318407"][quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]

    THAT STATUE DOES NOT HAVE POINTED JACKYL EARS!

    If anything we should be looking up Gods like Sekhmet. Those are ears for sure…but not tall and pointy. Also that is a female. What do you think he/she is holding?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I’m down with Tasha. I think it’s Sekhmet. She has a lion head. Smaller ears than Anubis. And holding in ankh in her right hand.[/quote]

    _______

    Lol. I am not saying it’s her. Just those ears to me are more like a lion. Also I think it’s a female. That looks more like a dress. Looks more like a modern statue with the short skirt LOL.

  194. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318427"]Luv reading everyone’s posts..
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the “truce”? The Others appeared to have killed Paul and yet Richard appears and has determined that if two of his guys are missing, then Dharma broke the truce. And why does Paul’s dead body fulfill what the Others need in retribution (or return)? Wouldn’t it seem that the Others broke the truce if they killed a Dharma member first and seemed well on their way to killing Amy, too?
    Could the baby boy be Farraday?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    I took it as the Others didn’t know that those two killed Paul. So Alpert can take Paul back to the Others and say he killed the guy that killed their two.

  195. Skweez says:

    Was that really Charlotte? If so, then either Ben was wrong with her date of birth or they are not in the year 1974.

  196. fitty says:

    long hair=dreads

  197. katesFriend says:

    Ok, so the O6 lived for three years off island before the return

    and Sawyer, et al lived three years as dharma folks for three years before the return

    But Locke skipped ahead the three years when he pushed the FDW

    So maybe the island will give Locke back his three missing years, but then its over, b/c he died in the RW?

  198. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="318429"][quote comment="318416"][quote comment="318407"][quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]

    THAT STATUE DOES NOT HAVE POINTED JACKYL EARS!

    If anything we should be looking up Gods like Sekhmet. Those are ears for sure…but not tall and pointy. Also that is a female. What do you think he/she is holding?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I’m down with Tasha. I think it’s Sekhmet. She has a lion head. Smaller ears than Anubis. And holding in ankh in her right hand.[/quote]

    _______

    Lol. I am not saying it’s her. Just those ears to me are more like a lion. Also I think it’s a female. That looks more like a dress. Looks more like a modern statue with the short skirt LOL.[/quote]
    _______________________
    Don’t back out on me now baby! I’m riding this wave until Hammer proves it wrong.

    Just give me two weeks…

  199. helen says:

    I loved, loved, loved seeing Sawyer’s dimples again! He looked genuinely happy with Juliet.

  200. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318434"]Ok, so the O6 lived for three years off island before the return

    and Sawyer, et al lived three years as dharma folks for three years before the return

    But Locke skipped ahead the three years when he pushed the FDW

    So maybe the island will give Locke back his three missing years, but then its over, b/c he died in the RW?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Yeah, maybe Locke’s skipping ahead was a course correction since Ben stole his thunder by turning it first. The island just stuck him ‘when’ he needed to gather the folks for their ‘window’.

  201. katesFriend says:

    Olivia and Horace were married at least until Ben came to the island as a 10-12 yo

    Amy must come after Olivia. Therefore, when Amy and Horace are married, Ben is on the island as a child.

    Don’t you think Sawyer and friends (esp Juliet!) would know about this and go rough that little f’er up :)

  202. lost4ever says:

    I love Kimmel after LOST. His Secrets of LOST are funny.

  203. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”318435″_______________________
    Don’t back out on me now baby! I’m riding this wave until Hammer proves it wrong.

    Just give me two weeks…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    LOL, I can’t prove you wrong! I can’t see the front of the statue either. I just like the idea of tying it together with my never ending obsession with the whisperers…and Sekhmet doesn’t fit as well with it. :)

  204. Ben says:

    Who says Horace and Amy are married? Maybe they just shacked up after her husband died.

    Anyone notice the four toed statue is carrying two of the pieces on the necklace?

  205. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318435"][quote comment="318429"][quote comment="318416"][quote comment="318407"][quote comment="318397"][quote comment="318392"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    That’s what I think….maybe it’s Isis? LOL Wasn’t she Horus’s mother?[/quote]
    +++++++++++=
    Nah, Isis doesn’t have pointed ‘jackyl’ ears.[/quote]

    THAT STATUE DOES NOT HAVE POINTED JACKYL EARS!

    If anything we should be looking up Gods like Sekhmet. Those are ears for sure…but not tall and pointy. Also that is a female. What do you think he/she is holding?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I’m down with Tasha. I think it’s Sekhmet. She has a lion head. Smaller ears than Anubis. And holding in ankh in her right hand.[/quote]

    _______

    Lol. I am not saying it’s her. Just those ears to me are more like a lion. Also I think it’s a female. That looks more like a dress. Looks more like a modern statue with the short skirt LOL.[/quote]
    _______________________
    Don’t back out on me now baby! I’m riding this wave until Hammer proves it wrong.

    Just give me two weeks…[/quote]
    _________

    I think I might go with Horus…he wears those short things and doesn’t have the huge ears! LOL. I will probably change my mind in 5 minutes! http://www.theplatelady.com/egyptian/horus-5311.jpg

  206. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318438"]Amy must come after Olivia. Therefore, when Amy and Horace are married, Ben is on the island as a child.

    Don’t you think Sawyer and friends (esp Juliet!) would know about this and go rough that little f’er up :)[/quote]

    Oh mylanta. I just choked on a piece of cold garlic bread laughing at that!

    FWIW, I also think that the 4TS looks like a character from the Arthur cartoon series on PBS. I’m just saying…

    : ) P

  207. katesFriend says:

    I just realized we as viewers spent years watching 108 days go by and now it seems years fly by…

    I just say this b/c I think I really want Sawyer and Juliet to stay together…they have now been together 3 years whereas Juliet/Jack and Sawyer/Kate only knew each other for 1/3 year!

  208. EL says:

    [quote comment="318375"]Anyone think the Asian kid is the son of the guy in the Orientation videos…i think all of these kids are from the island[/quote]
    That would be interesting! They did clue us in with the flashback to the Orientation guy caring for a baby before work and then followed with Dan suggesting to Miles that maybe he has been to the island before like Charlotte.

  209. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318441"]Who says Horace and Amy are married? [/quote]
    Either Horace referred to her as his wife or Sawyer did in that scene. Please don’t post spoilers on this site before the airing. Comment 31.

  210. TanziTwo says:

    who says we are looking at the four toed statue? we could be looking at the three toed or six toed statue.

  211. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318445"][quote comment="318438"]Amy must come after Olivia. Therefore, when Amy and Horace are married, Ben is on the island as a child.

    Don’t you think Sawyer and friends (esp Juliet!) would know about this and go rough that little f’er up :)[/quote]

    Oh mylanta. I just choked on a piece of cold garlic bread laughing at that!

    FWIW, I also think that the 4TS looks like a character from the Arthur cartoon series on PBS. I’m just saying…

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    LMAO, ten bucks says when they see him, Sawyer calls him Pinnochio.

  212. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318447"][quote comment="318375"]Anyone think the Asian kid is the son of the guy in the Orientation videos…i think all of these kids are from the island[/quote]
    That would be interesting! They did clue us in with the flashback to the Orientation guy caring for a baby before work and then followed with Dan suggesting to Miles that maybe he has been to the island before like Charlotte.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    You two must be new here…that theory is has been beat around since the season premiere. :)

  213. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318447"][quote comment="318375"]Anyone think the Asian kid is the son of the guy in the Orientation videos…i think all of these kids are from the island[/quote]
    That would be interesting! They did clue us in with the flashback to the Orientation guy caring for a baby before work and then followed with Dan suggesting to Miles that maybe he has been to the island before like Charlotte.[/quote]

    This has been discussed quite a bit. Please see the thread for the season premiere, start at comment 58, then skip to 65 for a long list of comments.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  214. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318452"][quote comment="318447"][quote comment="318375"]Anyone think the Asian kid is the son of the guy in the Orientation videos…i think all of these kids are from the island[/quote]
    That would be interesting! They did clue us in with the flashback to the Orientation guy caring for a baby before work and then followed with Dan suggesting to Miles that maybe he has been to the island before like Charlotte.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    You two must be new here…that theory is has been beat around since the season premiere. :)[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    I said that last season after we first met Miles, I think under the OTHER WOMAN thread.

  215. Halliwax says:

    Hey guys.. i got my degree in egyptology and actually just got back from egypt and a lot of the archaeological sites.. thought i’d throw my two cents out there to clarify some confusion

    i’d be shocked if that statue was anubis because from this angle it’s not an accurate depiction of him at all.. i would tend to fall in line with the sekhmet theory posed earlier if just looking at the head but the problem is sekhmet is almost always depicted sitting down and with an ankle long skirt rather than the knee high skirt that only males wear and that our statue is wearing.. and the majority of the time she has the solar disk on her head rather than the flat crown but she has been depicted like that before..

    sekhmet is the lioness goddess of memphis, capitol of the old kingdom when the giza pyramids were built.. she was thought to serve as protector for the gods so that would fall in line with the Others/indigenous inhabitants desires to keep all other people off the island.. so its possible that statue was built to ward people away

    anubis on the other hand is the jackal headed god who was responsible for taking people to the underworld.. rather than the god of the underworld as some have incorrectly surmised.. that would be osiris.. who is definitely not the model for the statue.. not only did anubis lead the dead across to the underworld but he was also responsible for embalming their organs in canopic jars and mummifying them.. if the rituals of anubis were not allowed to occur, the dead would be destined to roam the world as an ethereal spirit and never achieve peace.. this could relate to the minor revelation about the dead having to be buried in today’s episode.. or also to our chronic island=purgatory theories

    someone also posed a horus possibility.. based on the angle we got its highly unlikely.. however there probably is a strong correlation to goodspeed.. he is the leader of dharma and throughout ancient egyptian history horus is synonymous with each pharoah in power.. horus was thought to be the first official pharaoh of egypt who united upper and lower egypt according to the mythos.. the actual first pharaoh was narmer or menes (not determined as of yet whether they actually are one and the same king) and he actually did unite the two halves of egypt.. so after narmer each king was thought to be the current earthly manifestation of horus.. mandated by him to be in power.. so steles and temple art depict horus granting power to each king.. like an inauguration of sorts.. in this sense his mythos makes sense but not for the statue

    one last thing before i stop this long post.. someone already said it but ill confirm that ankh is depicted in the hands of nearly every ancient egyptian god or goddess.. especially as you get into the middle and new kingdoms.. all temple art shows ankh in the right hand of the gods.. ankh is primarily depicted in the embalming/mummifying chambers dedicated to anubis.. not only is it in his hand but all throughout the art and hieroglyphs.. it represents not only eternal life but a rebirth

    fabulous episode!!

  216. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonze:

    Since Dan’s mom *g* didn’t help Dan save Char and now he’s going to possibly make a concious effort NOT to ‘tell her’. Can he successfully change what happened? Can he save her? Or is it futile?

  217. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318457"]anubis on the other hand is the jackal headed god who was responsible for taking people to the underworld.. rather than the god of the underworld as some have incorrectly surmised.. that would be osiris.. who is definitely not the model for the statue.. not only did anubis lead the dead across to the underworld but he was also responsible for embalming their organs in canopic jars and mummifying them.. if the rituals of anubis were not allowed to occur, the dead would be destined to roam the world as an ethereal spirit and never achieve peace.. this could relate to the minor revelation about the dead having to be buried in today’s episode.. or also to our chronic island=purgatory theories

    one last thing before i stop this long post.. someone already said it but ill confirm that ankh is depicted in the hands of nearly every ancient egyptian god or goddess.. especially as you get into the middle and new kingdoms.. all temple art shows ankh in the right hand of the gods.. ankh is primarily depicted in the embalming/mummifying chambers dedicated to anubis.. not only is it in his hand but all throughout the art and hieroglyphs.. it represents not only eternal life but a rebirth

    fabulous episode!![/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Thanks for your expertise Halliwax.

    I think they purposely made the statue a varition of one of the Gods to be purposely vague…but the parts of your post I quoted above, IN MY MIND, help to support that IF they intended for the statue to be a varition of Anubis, then it supports my whisperers theory (I think they are looking for help to stop ‘wandering’ and are ‘stuck’). JMO.

  218. Hammer says:

    Oh, and IF Jacob is supposed to be represented by this statue and variation of Anubis…maybe his request for ‘help’ is that he is currently being stopped from performing his ritual to let the dead folks ‘carry on’.???

  219. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318457"]Hey guys.. i got my degree in egyptology and actually just got back from egypt and a lot of the archaeological sites.. thought i’d throw my two cents out there to clarify some confusion

    i’d be shocked if that statue was anubis because from this angle it’s not an accurate depiction of him at all.. i would tend to fall in line with the sekhmet theory posed earlier if just looking at the head but the problem is sekhmet is almost always depicted sitting down and with an ankle long skirt rather than the knee high skirt that only males wear and that our statue is wearing.. and the majority of the time she has the solar disk on her head rather than the flat crown but she has been depicted like that before..

    sekhmet is the lioness goddess of memphis, capitol of the old kingdom when the giza pyramids were built.. she was thought to serve as protector for the gods so that would fall in line with the Others/indigenous inhabitants desires to keep all other people off the island.. so its possible that statue was built to ward people away

    anubis on the other hand is the jackal headed god who was responsible for taking people to the underworld.. rather than the god of the underworld as some have incorrectly surmised.. that would be osiris.. who is definitely not the model for the statue.. not only did anubis lead the dead across to the underworld but he was also responsible for embalming their organs in canopic jars and mummifying them.. if the rituals of anubis were not allowed to occur, the dead would be destined to roam the world as an ethereal spirit and never achieve peace.. this could relate to the minor revelation about the dead having to be buried in today’s episode.. or also to our chronic island=purgatory theories

    someone also posed a horus possibility.. based on the angle we got its highly unlikely.. however there probably is a strong correlation to goodspeed.. he is the leader of dharma and throughout ancient egyptian history horus is synonymous with each pharoah in power.. horus was thought to be the first official pharaoh of egypt who united upper and lower egypt according to the mythos.. the actual first pharaoh was narmer or menes (not determined as of yet whether they actually are one and the same king) and he actually did unite the two halves of egypt.. so after narmer each king was thought to be the current earthly manifestation of horus.. mandated by him to be in power.. so steles and temple art depict horus granting power to each king.. like an inauguration of sorts.. in this sense his mythos makes sense but not for the statue

    one last thing before i stop this long post.. someone already said it but ill confirm that ankh is depicted in the hands of nearly every ancient egyptian god or goddess.. especially as you get into the middle and new kingdoms.. all temple art shows ankh in the right hand of the gods.. ankh is primarily depicted in the embalming/mummifying chambers dedicated to anubis.. not only is it in his hand but all throughout the art and hieroglyphs.. it represents not only eternal life but a rebirth

    fabulous episode!![/quote]

    WOW awesome! I am addicted to that stuff. So who do you think it is? No possiblity it could be Astarte could it? Carthage? Tunisia? LOL

  220. Halliwax says:

    You may be onto something with the Jacob thing Hammer.. I wonder about the powder around the cabin too and how that relates.. my only thing with that theory is that rather than Jacob being a representation of anubis.. he may just be an ethereal representation of someone we already know at some point in time on the island that needs ‘help’ because they’re stuck in that form and not being allowed to reach the next plane as assisted by whomever is playing the ‘anubis’ role on the island

  221. emit says:

    [quote comment="318379"][quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    thats what i thought at first but now that people mentioned anubis i definately think thats what it is…here is the link for what we saw tonight

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:FourToedFull.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    ===================
    If you look closely the statue might have the Ankh in its hand, do you see it?????

  222. JTighe says:

    Not sure if anyone’s ever mentioned this — So Richard is the last of the immortal race of inhabitants who built the massivr statues and temple? Hence his flare for dressing up and wearing make-up. He and jacob are all that remain. But even an immortal humanoid is subject to the will of a god(jacob).

  223. Tasha says:

    Don’t remember if this was mentioned but I guess it’s confirmed Charlotte was not born in 79:)

  224. gigi says:

    Can someone please clarify what time that John is in now? The Dharma station he was in with the mystery guy from the airplane was clearly one post purge. With Ben there, as someone mentioned previously, they couldn’t end up in 1977- as he is most likely already there as a younger version of himself. So…where will the writers go with some in 1977 and Ben and John in more present day life?

  225. ggc says:

    Can someone please clarify what time that John is in now? The Dharma station he was in with the mystery guy from the airplane was clearly one post purge. With Ben there, as someone mentioned previously, they couldn’t end up in 1977- as he is most likely already there as a younger version of himself. So…where will the writers go with some in 1977 and Ben and John in more present day life?

  226. wally p says:

    [quote comment="318431"]Was that really Charlotte? If so, then either Ben was wrong with her date of birth or they are not in the year 1974.[/quote]

    There is no doubt that Charlotte turned the wheel, … went ahead in time… was forced to erase any existance of her past on the island. Daniel knows she is Charlotte, but I bet thats not her name on the island…

    I dont know how long Daniel can last before he turns that wheel again… probably freaks out, grabs charlotte and bam… flash back to the statue…

  227. confused says:

    hammer… do you really think the statue represents jacob, and do we really know that jacob even exists on the island now that we are back in time? i know that richard is there, but we havent heard that jacob is there yet, have we?

  228. confused says:

    [quote comment="318470"][quote comment="318431"]Was that really Charlotte? If so, then either Ben was wrong with her date of birth or they are not in the year 1974.[/quote]

    There is no doubt that Charlotte turned the wheel, … went ahead in time… was forced to erase any existance of her past on the island. Daniel knows she is Charlotte, but I bet thats not her name on the island…

    I dont know how long Daniel can last before he turns that wheel again… probably freaks out, grabs charlotte and bam… flash back to the statue…[/quote]

    wait.. how do we know charlotte turned the wheel? am i missing somthing?

  229. LostJunkie says:

    Locke (and Ben) are in the actual present, 2008. The time flashes stopped as soon as Locke turned the wheel. Flight 316 lands at the Hydra station in real time, 2008. Jack, Kate, and Hurley we know end up in 1977, apparently having “flashed” out of the plane, reunited with Sawyer, Jin, and Juliet. The earlier theory of Jack/Kate/Hurley ending up in 1977 because they are supposed to be on the same timeline as the other Losties does make sense…it’s been three (or so) actual years for all of them. It’s interesting that we haven’t seen Sun or Sayid yet in 1977, and I don’t believe we’ve seen Miles or Faraday in 1977 either.

    I don’t know if anybody has brought this up, but it seems to me that Faraday’s theory is not correct. He says that you can’t change the past. But, have they not done just that in this episode? Without Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention, Amy would have died. Thus, Amy wasn’t supposed to end up with Horace, and their child wouldn’t have even been born had Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention not taken place. For that matter, Amy wouldn’t have even delivered the child successfully without Juliet. So it seems like the Losties are, indeed, altering things. Unless this is how it all REALLY HAPPENED? I suppose that’s possible. That would have to mean that the 1977 Losties must get back to real-time somehow, because they do, after all, get to the Island and are the same physical age in 2004 when they take the original Oceanic flight.

    I love the theory of children that may be born in the 70’s could be people we have come to know as adults from 2004-2008. Could Amy’s son be somebody we know? Will Kate’s baby, like I theorized last week? If Juliet is pregnant, maybe her too?

    What a great show this is. It’s as compelling as ever this season.

  230. insomniac says:

    Newbie here so please forgive me in advance. First of all, I turned down this pilot and really wished I wouldn’t have!!! But, I had a sick cat and didn’t want to travel to Hawaii with her because there was an animal quarantine, etc.

    Anyway, just a few questions and I’m hoping you “Losties” can help me out because to be quite honest-it would take me FOREVER to scroll through all the comments this season and past seasons. And my brain is about to explode after tonight’s episode. So many questions and so few answers. I’m posting here tonight because I’m pretty bummed we have to wait 2 weeks-haven’t we done enough waiting??? ok, moving on….

    1) I am almost positive the baby in the Season 5 opener was Charlotte. It explains why she knows how to speak Korean. Does anyone else agree? My friends seem to think the baby is Miles but the baby looked caucasian to me. And tonight, Daniel looked up and saw a very young red-haired girl and said “Charlotte” She was with a darker skinned woman and speaking Korean.

    2) I have met Michael Emerson (super nice guy, talked about LOST but not details of the show, more about the crew) and he almost always plays a bad guy. But I’m thinking he might not be on this show. I’m beginning to wonder how important his character is. He is beginning to seem like a pawn to possibly Ms. Hawking? Thoughts?

    3) I think there is so much more to Faraday then we’ve seen to date-although my husband thinks he’s not that crucial. He is Hawking’s son but do we know who his father is?

    4) DESMOND-one of my favorite characters-seems to be crucial. Although I’m not sure how. Anyone have suggestions here? On a personal note: if Ben kills Penny-I might have to stop watching the show!!

    5) JACOB-I could go on and on here. I still don’t “get” the smoke monster (a security system for the temple?), the temple, the cabin moving, etc. Maybe I’m crazy or LOST—but it seems whoever/whatever Jacob is— he takes the form of the dead on the island (Christian Shepard) and I don’t know why! Or am I way off base here? Does anyone know or will I have to wait until the Season Finale??

    6) LOCKE- ok, I assumed he would come back as Jacob but no….and what’s with the new group from the plane that landed with Ben, Locke, etc? Did Ben or Widmore place this group of new people on the plane? Walt mentioned to Locke that he had a dream and there would be people who wanted to kill him or something like that and I assume it’s these people.

    7) Richard Albert- so dude has been there FOREVER but I still don’t understand the importance of his character although I assume he will be quite important when it’s all said and done.

    8) Do we know who Adam and Eve are?

    anyway, I love the show. the time travel elements. and of course it was nice seeing Sawyer being, um, nice tonight! Of course I knew at the end of Season 4 he and Juliette would end up together so tonight was no big surprise. Thanks in advance and looking forward to some answers!!!!!

  231. LostJunkie says:

    I still think Kate and Sawyer are going to end up together. I always thought that, even when Kate had feelings for Jack. Kate and Sawyer are like kindred spirits in the passion department! Juliet could be a “replacement” for Kate, since he never thought he’d see Kate again. It may not be for a while that he ends up with Kate but that is ultimately what I believe will happen.

  232. Mr. $tuart says:

    Maybe Horace is a Mormon.

  233. wally p says:

    [quote comment="318473"][quote comment="318470"][quote comment="318431"]Was that really Charlotte? If so, then either Ben was wrong with her date of birth or they are not in the year 1974.[/quote]

    There is no doubt that Charlotte turned the wheel, … went ahead in time… was forced to erase any existance of her past on the island. Daniel knows she is Charlotte, but I bet thats not her name on the island…

    I dont know how long Daniel can last before he turns that wheel again… probably freaks out, grabs charlotte and bam… flash back to the statue…[/quote]

    wait.. how do we know charlotte turned the wheel? am i missing somthing?[/quote]

    *************
    We know that Charlotte leaves the island, and we know her records say that she was born in 1979… it was already guessed on this blog that she may have not been born in ’79, which has turned out to be true, So I would assume that the only way for her to get off of the island would have been from the wheel… since she has to lie about what year she was born, by about eight years…(it was 1974 right?)

    ALSO, if its 1974/77 theres no Ben yet right? Didn’t he come in like 1982ish?

  234. wally p says:

    [quote comment="318481"]I still think Kate and Sawyer are going to end up together. I always thought that, even when Kate had feelings for Jack. Kate and Sawyer are like kindred spirits in the passion department! Juliet could be a “replacement” for Kate, since he never thought he’d see Kate again. It may not be for a while that he ends up with Kate but that is ultimately what I believe will happen.[/quote]

    It makes sense to me… but theres gonna be some love square drama first. Ya’ll know you swallowed a lump when Kate looked at Sawyer… her and Juliet may have to slap fight first but corse correction will happen
    Juliet is a perfect match for Jack… shes a doctor etc. So they swap couples a few times, have a double date at the Polar Bear cages and whatnot… Jack better get his shit together though… he’s gotta stop looking so stuffy! It just looked like this wasn’t his scene, man.

    SPeaking of scene…did anyone else think that Horace was lighting a Cheech and Chonger up at the beggining of last nights ep for a second??? I was like WHAAAAAA! HA HA HA I decided Horace is one of my favorite characters… I hope he’s some kind of god…

  235. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318275"][quote comment="318274"]

    _________________________________
    Or maybe we will find out that Dr Candle/Wickman/Halliwax/Chang’s new name is Pepe LaFleur. :)[/quote]
    /////////////////////////////////////
    having not watched the show yet ,i can only comment on the posts i ve just read.I think ….
    1.candle/WICKman /halliWAX …?????
    //////////////////////////////////////
    [quote comment="318335"][quote comment="318330"]I also was waiting to hear the name of Goodspeed’s baby. I am more confused than ever.[/quote]
    I think they didn’t reveal that on purpose – will probably be a shocker of sorts. Any guesses?[/quote]//////
    2.I think its name will begin with R.as in R.G.
    3.I think we are dealing with different time [historical] issues .
    black rock arrival.
    jughead arrival.
    hatch implosion.
    dharma purge.
    All of these aspects changed the the makeup of the island ,they altered its natural course ..
    ..Another point . What if we substitute the egypt/pharoh with an Inca /south american slant? ..would that not fit better with the black rock ,four toed statue idea? It was the portuguese/spanish ships that sailed in those waters .And thier statues had skirts on ?what does ya think ?

  236. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318385"][quote comment="318372"][quote comment="318370"][quote comment="318369"]Dare I say it….eternal life…whisperers?[/quote]

    That’s what *I* was thinkin’ Lincoln!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Some folks think this episode wasn’t good….my mind is absolutley spinning…[/quote]

    ***************

    i agree, very good writing, lots to ponder…. :)[/quote]
    _________________________________
    I really liked it too – although I’m a little leary of the impending “love square” as others here have put it. I really, REALLY hope that does not get much attention, but the way they played up Juliet/Sawyer’s relationship (Julyer? Sawiet?), Sawyer’s lines about not remembering what Kate looks like, etc, I fear it will be a significant subplot going forward.

  237. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318490"]
    …..Ya’ll know you swallowed a lump when Kate looked at Sawyer…
    [/quote]
    the lump I swallowed was the contents of my stomach, which started to come back up at the thought of having to endure the love square for the duration of this series! :)

  238. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318431"]Was that really Charlotte? If so, then either Ben was wrong with her date of birth or they are not in the year 1974.[/quote]
    [sarcasm on] Ben wrong!? As in, maybe, just maybe, Ben was lying!!!?? No, it can’t be!! [/sarcasm off]

    I never fully believed what Ben said about Charlotte last season. And being that Ben seems to know everything about everyone, it stands to reason that in 2004/2005, Ben knew exactly who Charlotte was, knew that she was born on the island and at some point left the island. As a youngster on the island, Ben may have even known the young Charlotte. But for whatever reason he felt like he had to hide the information about her being born on the island so he made up the other info.

  239. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318488"]
    We know that Charlotte leaves the island, and we know her records say that she was born in 1979… it was already guessed on this blog that she may have not been born in ’79, which has turned out to be true, So I would assume that the only way for her to get off of the island would have been from the wheel… since she has to lie about what year she was born, by about eight years…(it was 1974 right?)

    ALSO, if its 1974/77 theres no Ben yet right? Didn’t he come in like 1982ish?[/quote]

    Why couldn’t Charlotte have left on the sub? IMHO, Ben was lying when he said she was born in 1979. If she was born in 1979, then when we first saw her in season 4, she would have been about 25 years old, which I don’t think was the case. If she was 3 or so in 1974, then she was 33 or so in 2004, which seems about right.

    I think Ben arrived on the island at about the same timeframe we’re seing in the episode (74-77). Per Lostpedia, he was born in the early 60’s, so in 2004 he’s about 40 years old which sounds accurate. We dont’ know exactly how old he was when he arrived on the island, but it seemed to be before he hit puberty, so, he was 10-12 yrs old. Doing the math indicates he arrived at the island in the early to mid 70’s. Also, if TPTB decide to use the same actor to portray young Ben, that kid will have aged a couple years, so the storyline will have to indicate that Ben has been on the island for a couple years.

  240. holchadolcha says:

    Has there been any talk about the Audrey Niffenegger book, “The Time Travelers Wife”? Could someone direct me to the thread if it has? I read this book a few years ago and can’t get the similarities out of my head about time travel and “causual loops or paradoxes”. Much appreciated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Traveler%27s_Wife

  241. wally p says:

    [quote comment="318498"][quote comment="318488"]
    We know that Charlotte leaves the island, and we know her records say that she was born in 1979… it was already guessed on this blog that she may have not been born in ’79, which has turned out to be true, So I would assume that the only way for her to get off of the island would have been from the wheel… since she has to lie about what year she was born, by about eight years…(it was 1974 right?)

    ALSO, if its 1974/77 theres no Ben yet right? Didn’t he come in like 1982ish?[/quote]

    Why couldn’t Charlotte have left on the sub? IMHO, Ben was lying when he said she was born in 1979. If she was born in 1979, then when we first saw her in season 4, she would have been about 25 years old, which I don’t think was the case. If she was 3 or so in 1974, then she was 33 or so in 2004, which seems about right.

    I think Ben arrived on the island at about the same timeframe we’re seing in the episode (74-77). Per Lostpedia, he was born in the early 60’s, so in 2004 he’s about 40 years old which sounds accurate. We dont’ know exactly how old he was when he arrived on the island, but it seemed to be before he hit puberty, so, he was 10-12 yrs old. Doing the math indicates he arrived at the island in the early to mid 70’s. Also, if TPTB decide to use the same actor to portray young Ben, that kid will have aged a couple years, so the storyline will have to indicate that Ben has been on the island for a couple years.[/quote]

    Probably right all around. Bens timeline messes me up a bit… I thought he was 18 when the purge happened, and for a long time I thought the purge happened in the seventies… but I know it happened in 1992, and I guess Ben wasn’t 18?

    Also, now that I think about it Charlottes age would seem to be about accurate at 33… but I could still see her having a false profile, designed to keep her Island past a secret… tho Ben could easily know that too… so

    Still see Daniel gettin at that wheel tho

  242. wally p says:

    …forgot to seperate my comments again!!! 241…

    BTW the more I think about Horace its giving me some chills… Remember how Ben pays special attention to close his eyes after the purge? is that somehow connected to burying the bodies… and is burying/not burying bodies the reason for the mass open grave? and Lost Addict, I think you are onto something with him and Amy being a time alteration… does this mean Bens history has changed? Maybe this is how he gets back to the island…

  243. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318477"]
    …. and I don’t believe we’ve seen Miles or Faraday in 1977 either.
    [/quote]
    We did see Miles, in a van with Sawyer, in 1977.

    [quote comment="318477"]
    I don’t know if anybody has brought this up, but it seems to me that Faraday’s theory is not correct. He says that you can’t change the past. But, have they not done just that in this episode?
    [/quote]
    I disagree – I don’t think Faraday’s theory is incorrect, and I don’t think they changed the past.

    [quote comment="318477"]
    Without Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention, Amy would have died. Thus, Amy wasn’t supposed to end up with Horace, and their child wouldn’t have even been born had Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention not taken place. For that matter, Amy wouldn’t have even delivered the child successfully without Juliet. ….. Unless this is how it all REALLY HAPPENED?
    [/quote]
    Yes, I believe the way you’re describing things in these sentences is what happened. As Daniel said AGAIN in this episode, “Whatever happened, happened”

    [quote comment="318477"]
    That would have to mean that the 1977 Losties must get back to real-time somehow, because they do, after all, get to the Island and are the same physical age in 2004 when they take the original Oceanic flight.
    [/quote]
    Now I’m back to disagreeing with you. If the Losties were to get back to “real time”, they would end up in 2007/2008. For the Sawyer, Jack, etc that we’re seeing in 1977, the crash of OA815 is in their past. It’s in the island’s future, but in their past. The Sawyer, Jack, etc that we’re seeing in 1977 are not destined to board OA815 on Sept 22, 2004, because they’ve already done so.

  244. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318477"]
    I don’t know if anybody has brought this up, but it seems to me that Faraday’s theory is not correct. He says that you can’t change the past. But, have they not done just that in this episode? Without Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention, Amy would have died. Thus, Amy wasn’t supposed to end up with Horace, and their child wouldn’t have even been born had Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention not taken place. For that matter, Amy wouldn’t have even delivered the child successfully without Juliet. So it seems like the Losties are, indeed, altering things. Unless this is how it all REALLY HAPPENED? I suppose that’s possible. That would have to mean that the 1977 Losties must get back to real-time somehow, because they do, after all, get to the Island and are the same physical age in 2004 when they take the original Oceanic flight.
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++
    My wife threw that one at me this morning…was Juliette changing the past? Was Amy and ‘new boy’ supposed to die? Is there a person being alive that wasn’t supposed to (the baby) going to change the future?

  245. RGS says:

    So to me, only the Losties will leave the island by the turning of the FDW in order to get back to their present day. Charlotte will leave by submarine. She certainly will not turn the wheel as a little girl, winding up in the middle of the desert with only her wits to survive. Who would turn it? Widmore is my guess, as he is tricked by a young Ben (that’s why he refers to him as a boy). How does Ben know that the wheel must be turned? Maybe Daniel tells him?

    Halliwax, I love,love, love the info you provided. Thanks for the clarification.
    I agree that the conversation with Sawyer sparks Alpert to seek out Locke as a teen. Lostpedia is probably off with their dates, as remember last time Alpert saw Locke, he leaves in a huff. Sawyer then changes his mind because he brings up Locke yet again. This re-energizes Alpert.

    Maybe the dust around the cabin is remnants of the statue? SRTR4K.

    It seemed to me from the earlier scene with Daniel, that he may be the one that puts into motion the idea of freezing the donkey wheel.
    Perhaps Olivia is killed in one of the incidents or battles between the hostiles and Dharma.

    I was thinking all along that when Alpert visits Ben as a child, it is from a time jump and not necessarily from not aging, but I’m not so sure anymore, as I don’t think it would be solely Alpert that is not aging, he’s the only one we’ve seen, but wouldn’t it also include his whole group?

    I am also thinking the comment by the psychiatrist, “you look just like her” actually refers to Juliette.

  246. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318472"]hammer… do you really think the statue represents jacob, and do we really know that jacob even exists on the island now that we are back in time? i know that richard is there, but we havent heard that jacob is there yet, have we?[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I think it’s possible…it was just a talking point to mull over.

  247. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318464"]You may be onto something with the Jacob thing Hammer.. I wonder about the powder around the cabin too and how that relates.. my only thing with that theory is that rather than Jacob being a representation of anubis.. he may just be an ethereal representation of someone we already know at some point in time on the island that needs ‘help’ because they’re stuck in that form and not being allowed to reach the next plane as assisted by whomever is playing the ‘anubis’ role on the island[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I like that one too….I def. think the statue, Jacob and the whisperers are the gist of it, somehow.

  248. Hammer says:

    My wife threw out this one too.

    Wife: “So Alpert is dead.”

    Me: “Ummm, what?”

    Wife: “He walked threw the fence, doesn’t that mean he’s dead?”

    Thoughts?

  249. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318367"]Well dogs seem to be a theme. I know this sounds stupid, but the one time they showed Jacob, his hair was done in a fashion that looked sort of like dog ears hanging down….I brought it up way back when it aired.

    Is Jacob supposed to be like Anubis? Is the statue Jacob?[/quote]
    There’s also the dog painting in Jacob’s cabin.

  250. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318504"]
    I am also thinking the comment by the psychiatrist, “you look just like her” actually refers to Juliette.[/quote]
    Except, that comment was made TO Juliet.

  251. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318480"]Newbie here so please forgive me in advance. First of all, I turned down this pilot and really wished I wouldn’t have!!! But, I had a sick cat and didn’t want to travel to Hawaii with her because there was an animal quarantine, etc.
    [/quote]
    Are you in the business? An actor? Writer?

  252. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318458"]Bedtime for Bonze:

    Since Dan’s mom *g* didn’t help Dan save Char and now he’s going to possibly make a concious effort NOT to ‘tell her’. Can he successfully change what happened? Can he save her? Or is it futile?[/quote]
    I think he can’t save her and it is futile. For dramatic effect, they had him repeat his theory “Whatever happened, happened”, and they had him try to convince himself that he won’t tell her. They’ll eventually show him somehow telling her, probably followed by his realization that despite his intentions, he did tell her. It will be a very sad tearjerker of a scene.

  253. JOHN says:

    [quote comment="318412"][quote comment="318409"]Ok, ok. I do see some pointy ears. Looks like it’s holding an ankh in it’s right hand.[/quote]
    That’s it, an ankh. Now who holds an ankh?[/quote]
    looks like the Anubis statue is carrying two ankh’s one in each hand.

  254. RGS says:

    [quote comment="318510"][quote comment="318504"]
    I am also thinking the comment by the psychiatrist, “you look just like her” actually refers to Juliette.[/quote]
    Except, that comment was made TO Juliet.[/quote]

    Yes it was.

  255. wits says:

    haven’t seen this posted yet… anyone think the statue is gone because it crumbled in the “earthquake”?

  256. JOHN says:

    The Ankh is defined as: The symbolic representation of both Physical and Eternal life. It is known as the original cross, which is a powerful symbol that was first created by Africans in Ancient Egypt.

    The Ankh is commonly known to mean life in the language of Ancient Kemet (land of the Blacks) renamed Egypt by the Greeks. It is also a symbol for the power to give and sustain life, the Ankh is typically associated with material things such as water (which was believed by Egyptians to regenerate life), air, sun, as well as with the Gods, who are frequently pictured carrying an Ankh. The Egyptian king is often associated with the Ankh also, either in possession of an Ankh (providing life to his people) or being given an Ankh (or stream of Ankhs) by the Gods. This can be seen in the picture of King Senworsert below who is holding two Ankhs to his chest. There are numerous examples that have been found that were made from metal, clay and wood. It is usually worn as an amulet to extent the life of living and placed on the mummy to energize the resurrected spirit. The Gods and the Kings are often shown carrying the Ankh to distinguish them from mere mortals. The Ankh symbolized eternal life and bestowed immortality on anyone who possessed it. It is believed that life energy emanating from the Ankh can be absorbed by anyone within a certain proximity. An Ankh serves as an antenna or conduit for the divine power of life that permeates the universe. The amulet is a powerful talisman that provides the wearer with protection from the evil forces of decay and degeneration.

    The loop of the Ankh is held by the Gods. It is associated with Aset (Isis) and Asar (Osiris) in the Early Dynastic Period. The Loop of the Ankh also represent the feminine discipline or the (Womb), while the elongated section represent the masculine discipline or the (Penis). These two sacred units then come together and form life. Because of its powerful appeal, the Ankh was used in various religious and cultural rituals involving royalty. In the Treasures of Tutankhumun, the Ankh was a major artifact found in the tomb. The circle symbolizes eternal life and the cross below it represents the material plane. The Ankh is called the “Crux Ansata,” it is of Egyptian origin and can be traced to the Early Dynastic Period, appearing frequently in artwork of various material and in relief, depicting the Gods.

    It is usually held to the nose of the deceased king by the Gods to represent the breath of life given in the after-world. The Ankh also resembles a key and is considered the key to eternal life after death. Its influence was felt in every dynastic period and survives as an icon possessing mystical power throughout the Coptic Christian era. The Ankh possessed by each God had power associated with that God. The Ankh of the God Anubis (shown in the picture to the right) is related to the protection of the dead, that of Sekhmet, War, Hapi related to the living waters of the Nile and Amen, the spirit God, the breath of life.

  257. RGS says:

    Now I want to think that Locke is the person that gets Alpert to “invest” in Ben, perhaps accidentally.

    Locke would mention something about Widmore helping him to return to the island, which in turn convinces Alpert that Widmore must get off the island, in order to help Locke get back.

  258. JOHN says:

    the ankh didn’t do Paul much good, or did it???

  259. Lostfan says:

    I will be truly ticked if Kate ruins things for Sawyer & Juliet. Enough mind games already, Freckles.

  260. Tasha says:

    After being on the phone until 3 in the morning and looking up every god or goddess I could find I have another thought on the statue. SOmeone said how do we know this statue has 4 toes which also brings up, how do we know it’s the only statue? There may be MORE of these statues, not so likely, but if we go with Sekhmet then another statue can stand somewhere whom is said to have been her twin or sister, Bst. Together,they represent the balance of Good and Evil.

    ….Another aspect of Bast is her twin sister, Sekhmet. Sekhmet is also a goddess, depicted as a woman with the head of a lioness. She represents the negative, darker side of the goddess. As the lioness goddess, Sekhmet symbolizes the destructive forces in Nature and in human nature, while Bast is everything pure and good and life-giving. Together, the sister goddesses make up a whole – the balance of good and evil.(quoted)

    In many of their statues they can be similar to the statue. (What they are holding, crown on head, little ears.)

    I said Astarte ONLY because of ancient Carthage, me thinking this statue was not built there but got their thru a vortex.

    Also, about this statue, I am not completely sure about looking far too much into. (COming to the girl who was researching all night.) Writers have a kind of shocking…WTF? thing going on. They can’t be building this up so we say, oh it’s anubis or Bastet, or Horus, or anyone that many are spending time looking into. I have a pretty good feeling that when we see that statue we are going to say WTF? Gotta be someone we have seen already.

    I wish I could just let this go. What a TEASE!! I want to KNOW!!!! Now they are stuck in the 70s. My biggest fear is we will NEVER know!!

  261. Tasha says:

    Ummm sorry about above post, I don’t think my English is usually that bad! Hope ya’ll understand it.lol

  262. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318490"]SPeaking of scene…did anyone else think that Horace was lighting a Cheech and Chonger up at the beggining of last nights ep for a second??? I was like WHAAAAAA! HA HA HA I decided Horace is one of my favorite characters… I hope he’s some kind of god…[/quote]

    That was a stick of dynamite, which he then threw at, and blew up, a tree.

    : ) P

  263. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318516"][quote comment="318510"][quote comment="318504"]
    I am also thinking the comment by the psychiatrist, “you look just like her” actually refers to Juliette.[/quote]
    Except, that comment was made TO Juliet.[/quote]

    Yes it was.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    So are you saying that in 2003 or whenever, the psychiatrist tells Juliet that she (Juliet) reminds Ben of the time-travelling Juliet that Ben may remember from the 1970’s when he was a kid? Interesting possibility, but I still think the psychiatrist was referring to his mother.

  264. mcotter says:

    Brilliant episode really restored my faith after two disapointing episodes, they were good but not as much as i hoped, really intriguied to where the show is going to go, we have aseason and a half left what is the story going to be, great writing and tying loose ends, we can assume that somehow John Locke will get back to 1974 or at least back in time becuase patchy earlier in season 3 says he could remember a John Locke, the whole Miles has to be Candle’s kid is less likely now for we now know how has been on the island before, he had he just didnt know it when Danile asked him earlier in the season, what happened, happened, Charlotte was born and came back she met Daniel when she was little when he was working for Dharma which is only just occuring now for the viewers, also we got to believe again now that all of the oceanic survivors will somehow get off the island or die otherwise they would have met their future selves that went to the past when they first arrived on the isalnd, what a show.

  265. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment="318376"]I paused my DVR on the statue and from the back, it looks like a female. Anyone else see it that way?[/quote]

    Yes! I was going to post the same thing! I totally agree. Also…

    I’m not sure if anyone else has posted on this, however..general renderings/depictions of the god Anubis, usually have him holding a cross – called an Ankh. Agreed.

  266. NikkiV says:

    Which, I forgot to continue writing in my last post, was the same style of cross that Paul’s wife took from around his neck..

  267. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318537"]
    ….we can assume that somehow John Locke will get back to 1974 or at least back in time becuase patchy earlier in season 3 says he could remember a John Locke…..

    …..also we got to believe again now that all of the oceanic survivors will somehow get off the island or die otherwise they would have met their future selves that went to the past when they first arrived on the isalnd, what a show.[/quote]
    Great point about patchy knowing a John Locke – I had forgotten about that.

    Regarding the future fate of the survivors, I hope you’re right because if they don’t get off the island, they’ll die in the purge.

  268. K.C. says:

    I think we need to go back farther than Egypt to get to the origins of the island.
    I propose than the island is none other than the LOST island of ATLANTIS. Atlantean culture supposedly influenced many ancient cultures. So Atlantis didn’t sink–it’s lost because we can’t find it because it keeps moving around in space and time.

  269. mcotter says:

    wandering now how many of the others would have know about the losties when they got to the island, the possibilties are endless now because the writers have summed this up to a tee so far absolutley perfect, one of our losties is going to be Jacob starting to think that it will Locke, two of our Losties will be adam and eve starting to think maybe it will be Rose and Bernard, that s why we won t see them for a while or have seen them for a while think they might wrap up their story on the island because we know their is no way that they will leave, i think there will be a game changer that everything so far was under false pretenses, the whole O6 thing ended too quickly why bother sended them back only to bring them back to the island in the space of lets face it 10 episodes of non flashforward material, i think it is very possible that they may all yet get off the island apart from a few who will die and the lostie that is Jacob (could be Jack, who has the closed name to Jacob?)

  270. RGS says:

    [quote comment="318536] So are you saying that in 2003 or whenever, the psychiatrist tells Juliet that she (Juliet) reminds Ben of the time-travelling Juliet that Ben may remember from the 1970’s when he was a kid? Interesting possibility, but I still think the psychiatrist was referring to his mother.[/quote]

    Yep, but I was suggesting it as a relatively strong, alternate theory. Harper, probably does refer to his mother, except that we’ve seen his mother when her “apparition” visits him, and to me they did not look alike, though there was a portrait that did resemble Juliette.

    Reason why I suggested it is because if Ben develops a crush on her for whatever reason, bringing her back to the island would strenghten his belief that she was ‘his.’ Harper seems at least 5 years younger than Ben, if not more, so her memory would be more fuzzy than Ben’s.

    I don’t remember the exact comment Harper made, but if she said, “Ben says you remind him of her,” Ben could easily be lying. If she just matter-of-factly made the statement to Juliette, I don’t see a particularly huge leap in the theory because her memory of Juliette would be hazy in comparison.

  271. shellonius funk says:

    i spent too much time lastnight sweating horace’s connections with olivia and amy.

    then i realized: we have NO PROOF that horace and olivia were married. just because LOSTpedia, a fan-created site, says her last name is goodspeed is NOT enough proof for me.
    1. we saw her in the car with horace on the day of ben’s birth.
    2. she was ben’s teacher.
    none of this necessarily means that she was ever married to horace…unless i’ve missed something somewhere.
    if they HAD been married, then he would’ve had the “is 3 years really enough time” conversation BEFORE MARRYING AMY.

    i do wonder if there’s a tweenaged ben running around.

    and it seems the new baby boy would have to be someone daniel’s age [approx.]…other than daniel, i don’t really have any ideas. my friends guessed ethan, but i think he might be a little too old. it’s someone 3 years younger than charlotte.

    part of me wonders if it’s chang’s baby we heard crying in the video…they never SHOWED the baby, so we don’t know that it’s biologically theirs. i wouldn’t put it past amy to freak out and do something that would wind up putting the baby in someone else’s custody.

  272. RGS says:

    [quote comment="318537"]Brilliant episode really restored my faith after two disapointing episodes, they were good but not as much as i hoped, really intriguied to where the show is going to go, we have aseason and a half left what is the story going to be, great writing and tying loose ends, we can assume that somehow John Locke will get back to 1974 or at least back in time becuase patchy earlier in season 3 says he could remember a John Locke, the whole Miles has to be Candle’s kid is less likely now for we now know how has been on the island before, he had he just didnt know it when Danile asked him earlier in the season, what happened, happened, Charlotte was born and came back she met Daniel when she was little when he was working for Dharma which is only just occuring now for the viewers, also we got to believe again now that all of the oceanic survivors will somehow get off the island or die otherwise they would have met their future selves that went to the past when they first arrived on the isalnd, what a show.[/quote]

    I disagree that we can dismiss the Miles/Candle connection. What was the order of the nose bleeds? Was Miles 2nd? If you are suggesting that the flash which puts Miles & the Losties back to the 70’s shows that Miles had been on the island b4 and did not know it, then that would mean all of the Losties (flashing) had been on the island before and did not know it. So because they all flashed together, they should have (in theory) simultaneously began getting nose bleeds.

    Charlotte was the first to get the nose bleeds, and she had been on the island for a longer time, which seemed to be the lint that drove the nose bleeds.

  273. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318538"]I’m not sure if anyone else has posted on this, however..general renderings/depictions of the god Anubis, usually have him holding a cross – called an Ankh. Agreed.[/quote]

    Um, NikkiV? The ankh has been posted about more than a dozen times. Anubis, more than fifteen times. Add in Osiris and Sekhmet and it is up in the twenties.

    I know it is hard to read through ALL the posts, but for anyone out there who doesn’t feel like reading everything, you can do CTRL-F with a keyword and read JUST the posts which discuss that keyword. Makes it nice and easy! *G*

    : ) P

  274. mcotter says:

    I disagree that we can dismiss the Miles/Candle connection. What was the order of the nose bleeds? Was Miles 2nd? If you are suggesting that the flash which puts Miles & the Losties back to the 70’s shows that Miles had been on the island b4 and did not know it, then that would mean all of the Losties (flashing) had been on the island before and did not know it. So because they all flashed together, they should have (in theory) simultaneously began getting nose bleeds.

    Charlotte was the first to get the nose bleeds, and she had been on the island for a longer time, which seemed to be the lint that drove the nose bleeds.[/quote]

    Not saying that he definitley isn’t Candle’s kid just saying that doesnt necesarily have to be the case it is highly co incidental that Miles has now been on the island three times in his life and yes through this new dharma revelation and now that Jack and Kate and Hurley are back in the 70s, when the plane crashed it was the second time the losties have been on the island daniel said time is a string and events cannot be changed whatever happened happened

  275. Mike McG says:

    The statue is the Goddess Tawaret,whose domain was the protection of pregnant women, especially during childbirth. Check this out: http://www.prestonandsteve.com/picview.php?id=14194

  276. shellonius funk says:

    am i the only one that wanted to hear a paul anka song after the ankh was taken off paul’s neck?
    ;-)

  277. Hammer says:

    Though I am not totally convinced either way on who Miles is, I lean toward him being Candle’s kid. Mostly because since they haven’t redshirted him yet, he has a place in this story, likely more significant than just the guy that hears dead people that HAPPENED to get recruited to go to the island. IMO.

  278. LostGrrl says:

    Juliet certainly does get around. She was an other, a lostie, and now part of the DI. The only character to do all three, correct?

    Also, I find it interesting how much Sawyer has changed since he came to the island. First a rogue who blackmailed people and hoarded basic needs, like medicine. Now much more heroic, leader, a shepherd. (Like Jack, but not as whiny.)

  279. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318548"]The statue is the Goddess Tawaret,whose domain was the protection of pregnant women, especially during childbirth. Check this out: http://www.prestonandsteve.com/picview.php?id=14194%5B/quote%5D
    ++++++++++
    Very convincing. Not totally sold yet that they ‘always’ had a pregnancy problem though. Right now, I still convinced that Ben’s issues brought that to the island…well after the statue was built.

  280. flgrl says:

    [quote comment="318510"][quote comment="318504"]
    I am also thinking the comment by the psychiatrist, “you look just like her” actually refers to Juliette.[/quote]
    Except, that comment was made TO Juliet.[/quote]

    That makes me think that they have to time jump again because it was definitely TO Juliet and I think it must be ABOUT Juliet.

    Statue – My husband said, without hesitation, when I freeze framed the statue, “It’s Juliet”. For one thing, check out that booty.

    Juliet and Sawywer seemed pleasant together but probably more of love born out of necessity/proximity than anything else. I don’t like him with Kate, but I’m afraid it will come back to that. I agree with what someone said earlier about it looking like she might be pregnant in that kitchen scene, but kind of unlikely with her crawling around under cars and such. Looks like the babies/kids may come back into play after all.

    Finally, I’m digging all the Egypt stuff and poor Richard must be confused as hell by this time!

  281. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318553"]Juliet and Sawywer seemed pleasant together but probably more of love born out of necessity/proximity than anything else. [/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I don’t know…3 years into it, he’s still ‘buying’ her flowers and she is still smitten by it. Still running her ‘man hands’ through his hair…Hollywood love. :)

  282. Missy says:

    The statue – Man, I wish we’d have gotten just a few more seconds to look at it! It did look Egyptian, with jives with Alpert’s heritage and all the hieroglyphics around the island. When I read the Isis and Osiris references above – the first thing I thought of was the Wizard of Oz. Professor Marvel mentions them. Along with all of the other Oz references throughout the shows history, I found that to be interesting.

    Also with the statue, we know that in the future most of it is gone – so what happened. Miles mentioned feeling an earthquake with the last flash they had. We also know that there is a volcano on the island (as the Dharma teacher taught about). Is this active? Could and eruption have caused it to take a tumble?

    I think Juliet and Sawyers meddling with the affairs of Amy and Paul have somewhat changed the course of the 70s happenings. Maybe Amy gives birth to the baby that was to be had by Olivia. I thought for sure it was going to be Charlotte, but was clearly mistaken. I’d love for it to be somebody we’ve already met – a lostie or an other like Charlie, Desmond, Goodwin, Ethan, etc. I don’t believe we know about their parents.

    Bodies – What gives with the importance of burying bodies. We know that the purge victims weren’t buried. We know that Amy insisted that the others be buried. We know that Keamy insisted that Carl and Rousseau be buried. And we know that Charlotte disappeared when she was dead above ground. But what conclusion can we draw from that???

    The Sawyer/Alpert conversation – so the Jughead scene has already taken place, eh? So Widmore either was or still is on the island because he and Ellie were there for the Jughead camp scenes. Is he currently the leader of the others? And what are the implications of this odd truce? Clearly the sonic fence is only for the smoke monster if Alpert can walk right through it!

    We see the good ‘ol sub. Poor Juliet has been scheduled to vacate the island twice on this thing! Does it not return after the 2-week stint on the main land, or does everyone get cozy on the island?

    Timeline – I’m confused with where Ben is, how old he is, how old Charlotte is, etc. Anyone else nervous that gas bombs were going to come flying into the barracks when the alarms were sounding. I LOVED the comment about them roughing up Ben from above. That was hilarious! I’m sure they’ve all figured out by now that Ben was NOT born on the island. Do they all know of the purge? I can’t recall who was privy to that information.

    Lastly, it was nice to see Sawyer and Juliet happy – but I don’t like them together. I’d like to see a switcheroo of Jack and Juliet and Sawyer and Kate – but I feel that it will be much, much more complicated than that!

    Seriously last thing – the dynamite that Horrace had – didn’t it look like it was from the Black Rock – and he told Sawyer that he wasn’t familiar with the Black Rock….

    Thanks for all the great comments – I enjoy reading all your thoughts!

    PS – Something interesting from Wikipedia: Being simultaneously alive and dead, Osiris became the god and king of the afterlife. As a life-death-rebirth deity, Horus/Osiris became a reflection of people’s desires for a successful afterlife. The legend’s ventures into both life and afterlife meant that religious rites associated with the legend eventually began to take on aspects of a mystery religion, where initiates were said to be able to partake in Horus/Osiris’ resurrection, purging themselves of past ills, and entering a new life.

  283. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318508"]My wife threw out this one too.

    Wife: “So Alpert is dead.”

    Me: “Ummm, what?”

    Wife: “He walked threw the fence, doesn’t that mean he’s dead?”

    Thoughts?[/quote]
    Amy walked throught the fence also with what seem to be earplugs in.

  284. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318556"]
    Bodies – What gives with the importance of burying bodies. We know that the purge victims weren’t buried. We know that Amy insisted that the others be buried. We know that Keamy insisted that Carl and Rousseau be buried. And we know that Charlotte disappeared when she was dead above ground. But what conclusion can we draw from that???

    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    No conclusion for me yet….but interesting that the Others sent one of their dead floating out to sea instead of burying them on the island…eh?

  285. shellonius funk says:

    someone please comment on my 272…re olivia and amy’s baby.

    also…horace built jacob’s cabin [for himself/horace’s self and “the missus”…pre-purge.
    i’m wondering where jacob stayed before that.
    or if jacob was simply being held captive there and that’s why he said “help me.”?
    i feel like jacob is a really old character like alpert, but with all the time-jumping, it certainly seems possible he could be someone “newer”.

  286. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="318289"]Did a freeze from on the dvr…appears to have ears like a dog….more dog references?[/quote]
    [quote comment="318344"]
    also the four toed statue was huge so there is no way that it just fell over and even if it did, it wouldnt just disappear, it wouldnt ever just deteriorate so i think someone took it down…but who put it up?[/quote]

    The statue flash back , in my opinion, took place thousands of years in the past- thus the statue cold very easily have disappeared- like the collosus of Rhodos. Since the island moves, if the statue fell over in the water, it could be anywhere.
    I’ll go with the theory that the statue had an egyptian/ or even pre-egyptian influence, and/ or is related to a LOST civilization.

  287. mcotter says:

    [quote comment="318563"]
    also…horace built jacob’s cabin [for himself/horace’s self and “the missus”…pre-purge.
    i’m wondering where jacob stayed before that.
    or if jacob was simply being held captive there and that’s why he said “help me.”?
    i feel like jacob is a really old character like alpert, but with all the time-jumping, it certainly seems possible he could be someone “newer”.[/quote]

    I think that Horace may have built a Cabin or more likely was planning to before he died, but not Jacobs cabin, the cabin is similar to Jacob it is not physical it moves and changes and only appears to particular people at particular times. Horace doesn’t really have a relationship to Jacob, he was dead when he mentioned the cabin, all characters when they die seem to have a far more deepened and mysterious knowledge of the island than when they were alive and they always seem to help alive people to get to where they need to be, i don’t think we really need to take Horace building the Cabin any further than a vision that the island gave Locke so he could find the Cabin and speak to Christian.

  288. shellonius funk says:

    based on the blueprints for it AND locke’s vision, i’m positive the cabin he was building is the one we later see jacob in.
    my only question is where was jacob staying before that?

  289. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="318329"]

    What happened to Olivia? Horace and Olivia were together when Ben was born (or at least we were led to believe that) and appeared to be together when Ben was brought to the island as a boy – which ought to be AROUND this same time period. Ideas?

    : ) P[/quote]

    We don’t really know that Olivia was his wife, for all we know she could be his sister.

    As far as Ben is concerned, we know he was born sometime in the early 60’s. During last night’s episode (74-77) he would have been anywhere from 10-17 years old. Chances are that he is on the island already, or that he is about to arrive.

  290. birdwatcher says:

    [quote comment="318563"]someone please comment on my 272…re olivia and amy’s baby.

    also…horace built jacob’s cabin [for himself/horace’s self and “the missus”…pre-purge.
    i’m wondering where jacob stayed before that.
    or if jacob was simply being held captive there and that’s why he said “help me.”?
    i feel like jacob is a really old character like alpert, but with all the time-jumping, it certainly seems possible he could be someone “newer”.[/quote]
    ———————————
    I think you’re right about Olivia – we don’t know if she was ever married to Horace.

    As for the baby, we did see Dr. Chang’s baby and I thought he/she was Asian. I don’t know if it’s the same baby you hear on the video. I can’t get the episode player to work on my computer so I can’t double-check….

  291. Abaddon says:

    i saw some1 mention the possibility of the statue beign juliette because the back of the statue looked similar to juliette and i agree it does….but what has me thinkin is one person posted they think its the goddess tawaret because her main domain is childbirth protection or what not…… that statue may very well be juliette but that would mean she herself would have to be just as old or if not as old as richard….. maybe juliette gets flashed back to the time before the statue was built? who knows?

  292. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318567"][quote comment="318289"]Did a freeze from on the dvr…appears to have ears like a dog….more dog references?[/quote]
    [quote comment="318344"]
    also the four toed statue was huge so there is no way that it just fell over and even if it did, it wouldnt just disappear, it wouldnt ever just deteriorate so i think someone took it down…but who put it up?[/quote]

    The statue flash back , in my opinion, took place thousands of years in the past- thus the statue cold very easily have disappeared- like the collosus of Rhodos. Since the island moves, if the statue fell over in the water, it could be anywhere.
    I’ll go with the theory that the statue had an egyptian/ or even pre-egyptian influence, and/ or is related to a LOST civilization.[/quote]
    //////////////////
    Obviously it fell over….it only had four toes !……was it the big toe or little toe that was missing?

  293. Miraks says:

    Kate needs to leave Sawyer alone!! It was so nice seeing him and Juliette happy, and I for one have always defended her/ not believed that she is not to be trusted or bad. Now whiny Kate shows up and just because she messed up things with Jack, she can’t just have Sawyer back. She made her pick- too back it did not work out. This is not “the bachelor(ette)”. LOL Sawyer gave his final “fleur” to Juliette.

  294. Tasha says:

    There seems to be alot more to TAWARET. We should look into this. In the Book of the Dead Taweret, the ‘Lady of Magical Protection’, was seen as a goddess who guided the dead into the afterlife. Read this…there was alot more to her……http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/taweret.htm

    It has to be her!!! They dont show the front cause it would be too obvious!

  295. Abaddon says:

    #
    [Unread Comment]
    gmta leah
    Comment 293, posted 12 minutes ago – Quote and reply

    Miraks wrote:

    Hammer wrote:

    Did a freeze from on the dvr…appears to have ears like a dog….more dog references?

    Vaughn K wrote:

    also the four toed statue was huge so there is no way that it just fell over and even if it did, it wouldnt just disappear, it wouldnt ever just deteriorate so i think someone took it down…but who put it up?

    The statue flash back , in my opinion, took place thousands of years in the past- thus the statue cold very easily have disappeared- like the collosus of Rhodos. Since the island moves, if the statue fell over in the water, it could be anywhere.
    I’ll go with the theory that the statue had an egyptian/ or even pre-egyptian influence, and/ or is related to a LOST civilization.

    //////////////////
    Obviously it fell over….it only had four toes !……was it the big toe or little toe that was missing?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Naw….. the statue actually on has 4 toes so whatever they modeled the statue after only had 4 toes

  296. PJSander says:

    FWIW, LOSTpedia has already changed Olivia’s relationship with Horace to “unknown.” Also, Samantha Mathis is credited as “Olivia the teacher” in IMDB.

    : ) P

  297. LaFlor says:

    [quote comment="318551"]Juliet certainly does get around. She was an other, a lostie, and now part of the DI. The only character to do all three, correct?

    Also, I find it interesting how much Sawyer has changed since he came to the island. First a rogue who blackmailed people and hoarded basic needs, like medicine. Now much more heroic, leader, a shepherd. (Like Jack, but not as whiny.)[/quote]
    ————–

    I think your giving sawyer to much credit. He still living a lie and putting his con-man charm to work. Same ole’ same ole’

    just wait until his feelings for Kate come up again. Can you say Dh-rama?

  298. fitty says:

    I’ve read pretty much every comment but am still confused on the whisperers. Can someone please point me in the direction of that comment?

  299. jb says:

    patchy is??

  300. Mia says:

    I was pleasantly surprised that Sawyer and Juliet are together! I actually like them together. Recall he wanted to “play house” with Kate on the island and he didn’t want to leave the island because he had nothing to go back to. He seems like he is finally happy…..When the losties come back it will spoil his little world….

    Also, did anyone think Sawyer in the 70s looked a little like Kid Rock???? Although Sawyer is waaaaaaaaaaaay hotter! Love his dimples….

    One last thing, is anyone as annoyed with the previews for that new show Castle – it’s like enough already!!!!

  301. LostGrrl says:

    [/quote] Amy walked throught the fence also with what seem to be earplugs in.[/quote]

    Yeah – what’s with that? If Amy knows about it, chances are an enemy would figure it out, and there goes your fancy security system.

  302. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="318576"]Kate needs to leave Sawyer alone!! It was so nice seeing him and Juliette happy, and I for one have always defended her/ not believed that she is not to be trusted or bad. Now whiny Kate shows up and just because she messed up things with Jack, she can’t just have Sawyer back. She made her pick- too back it did not work out. This is not “the bachelor(ette)”. LOL Sawyer gave his final “fleur” to Juliette.[/quote]

    Totally agreed!

  303. Becky says:

    Mia—I totally thought Sawyer looked like a hot version of Kid Rock then felt guilty for even putting them in the same category since Kid Rock is just not hot! LOL!

  304. Mia says:

    Becky – I hear ya! Too funny!

  305. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="318508"]My wife threw out this one too.

    Wife: “So Alpert is dead.”

    Me: “Ummm, what?”

    Wife: “He walked threw the fence, doesn’t that mean he’s dead?”

    Thoughts?[/quote]

    ********************

    I don’t think so. Guyliner said to Goodspeed, “That fence may keep other things out, but not us”.

    It seems as though all of Guyliner’s people have the ability to either, walk through the fence, or, use some kind of underground tunnel.

  306. birdwatcher says:

    [quote comment="318577"]There seems to be alot more to TAWARET. We should look into this. In the Book of the Dead Taweret, the ‘Lady of Magical Protection’, was seen as a goddess who guided the dead into the afterlife. Read this…there was alot more to her……http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/taweret.htm

    It has to be her!!! They dont show the front cause it would be too obvious![/quote]
    ————————————-
    I think the statue is definitely depicting a protector god/goddess-type figure. However, I don’t think it’s going to be an actual god or goddess from any real mythology. It’s definitely egyptian-like but it will, more than likely be a fictitious ancient civilization. Are there any 4-toed gods/goddesses?

  307. Abaddon says:

    Anybody think that baby could be desmond? we don’t know about desmonds childhood (if we did pleez correct me) and hawking said originally it was his destiny to go back to that island….also, faraday mentioned in “the constant” that desmond had to be exposed to high levels of radiation (the swan implosion) to have such an affect. maybe desmond was born on the island then moved to scotland before he knew anything about the island similar to charlotte. we’re looking for a character for that baby to be so i just gave us one

  308. lola says:

    sorry if it’s already been asked but i’m at work and don’t have time to read thru all responses. here’s my ?-if according to daniel “what happened, happened” then did juliet really deliver that chick’s baby back in the 70’s-what I mean is i thought they couldn’t “interfere”-i’m confused- so in that woman’s memory juliette delivered her baby, but in the 70’s juliette would have really been in grade school…

  309. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318544"]
    and it seems the new baby boy would have to be someone daniel’s age [approx.]…other than daniel, i don’t really have any ideas. my friends guessed ethan, but i think he might be a little too old. it’s someone 3 years younger than charlotte.
    [/quote]
    #########################################

    I think it is Ethan as well. I was trying to think of a dharma/hostile that would be about mid 30’s and he was the only one i could think if of off the top of my head. If Juliet interfered with the way things were by helping to deliver him than the island would find a way to course correct and it did when Charlie killed him.

  310. Aggie Mo says:

    I am wondering whether Sawyer and Juliet somehow did change history when they killed the two islanders and saved Amy. I assume that without their intervention, Amy would have died, would have never married Horace, and this new baby, identity unknown, would not have been born.

    If Olivia was Horace’s wife, is it possible that this intervention somehow prevented him from getting with Olivia, and created a new timeline? We know that certain characters have failed in attempting to change the past, but maybe this is not an absolute on the show?

    If this is true, could this affect Ben somehow? If he came to the island between 74 and 77, now maybe he didn’t?

    It would be interesting to know Ben’s timeline better. Did he come before 74, after 77, or between 74 and 77?

    [quote comment="318570"][quote comment="318329"]

    What happened to Olivia? Horace and Olivia were together when Ben was born (or at least we were led to believe that) and appeared to be together when Ben was brought to the island as a boy – which ought to be AROUND this same time period. Ideas?

    : ) P[/quote]

    We don’t really know that Olivia was his wife, for all we know she could be his sister.

    As far as Ben is concerned, we know he was born sometime in the early 60’s. During last night’s episode (74-77) he would have been anywhere from 10-17 years old. Chances are that he is on the island already, or that he is about to arrive.[/quote]

  311. Abaddon says:

    not only does richard not age, but apparently he doesnt have to wash his clothes becuase hes always wearing the same clothes while on the island, those blue pants and blue collared shirt, we’ve seen him wearing it in the 50’s 70’s and 00’s

  312. Daphne says:

    I am new to the blog and have read all 300 comments….someone commented on Richard wearing nice clothes–comment 149.
    But when you see the “hostiles” hold Amy and Paul up at gunpoint they were wearing their “dirty” clothes.

    Could the “Richard” we saw last night been him from another time, a time before the crash in 04, but from the future point of 1974? We saw him come to the aid of John, in a previous episode this season, as if he “sent himself” there to heal and talk to him.

    thoughts?

  313. birdwatcher says:

    [quote comment="318605"]sorry if it’s already been asked but i’m at work and don’t have time to read thru all responses. here’s my ?-if according to daniel “what happened, happened” then did juliet really deliver that chick’s baby back in the 70’s-what I mean is i thought they couldn’t “interfere”-i’m confused- so in that woman’s memory juliette delivered her baby, but in the 70’s juliette would have really been in grade school…[/quote]
    ——————————-
    Time travel concepts are always confusing. But, I think what we have to accept is that, the stuff we’re seeing now has already happened. The things they’re doing aren’t changing anything because they already happened that way before (we, the audience, just didn’t know it).

    When Daniel says “I’m not going to do it” he is thinking he can change the future by not telling Charlotte she’s going to die. Chances are, he will still tell her. Not because he knows he already did but because of his passion for Charlotte.

    The only one I’m not sure about w/the whole time travel thing is Desmond. Daniel said the rules don’t apply to Desmond (maybe because of the hatch explosion).

  314. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="318324"]BTW all of you that think Alpert is the leader….looks like he was in charge during Dharma…not Widmore. Looks like Alpert exiled Charles….IMO.[/quote]

    I don’t think Richard was ever the leader – I think he’s a guide for the leader (he seems to know more than Widmore in 1954 and Ben in 2004 and Locke in 2005).

  315. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="318324"]BTW all of you that think Alpert is the leader….looks like he was in charge during Dharma…not Widmore. Looks like Alpert exiled Charles….IMO.[/quote]

    *******************

    I don’t think Richard was ever the leader – I think he’s a guide for the leader (he seems to know more than Widmore in 1954 and Ben in 2004 and Locke in 2005).

  316. jaime says:

    ***** THIS TAKEN FROM DOCARTZ LOST BLOG*******

    Remember last episode when Hurley was painting an Egyptian scene? In the season 4 premiere Hurley was seen painting Eskimos, which naturally put forth the idea that Hurley was somehow psychically aware of how Penny had found the island. Has Hurley demonstrated his psychic painting skills – ala Isaac Mendez – yet again? Could be. We got our first full body look at the four-toed-statue, and he certainly looks like he could have been featured in Hurley’s water color.

    There is little doubt amongst the LOST sleuthing community that old-four-toes is in fact Anubis, the Greek name for the Egyptian god of the dead. Anubis acts as escort for the dearly departed on their way to the afterlife. Those of you still clinging to the purgatory theory should love that.

    To add a little heavy handed punctuation to the matter, LOST’s evil Easter egg planters gave Amy an Ankh to hang onto. Ankhs are the symbol for eternal life in the Egyptian symbol language – and Mr. Anubis is grasping two very large ones.

    Now as to the over-all significance of this: if this is indeed Mr. Anubis, is the island a chunk of Egypt that was somehow dislodged and set adrift? Probably not. Mr. Anubis, given the nature of our special island, is set strategically over-looking the water as if he is the island’s greeter announcing loudly and proudly “Welcome, we have plenty of eternal life for everyone.” It seems to me that the construction of this monument was part of a colonization effort of an epic scale.

  317. Miraks says:

    Maybe the Godspeed baby is Thomas? He is Aaron’s father, his painting was in Widmore’s office and in Widmore’s apartment. He would be about the right age. Also being Aaron’s father should make him more important? Maybe?

  318. lola says:

    [quote comment="318349"][quote comment="318348"][quote comment="318341"]I meant on post 108….that he would have been with his wife until sometime after Ben arrived. After the way he talks about how long it takes to get over someone, seems like he ISN’T or HASN’T been with her yet. If she died or they broke up he would have a better idea on the answer to that. JMO[/quote]
    I’m confused. Horace was married to Olivia years before he was married to Amy, correct?[/quote]
    ___

    That’s the confusing part! I don’t think he was with Olivia yet. Something is wrong here! If this is after Olivia….then where is Ben?[/quote]
    we don’t know what olivia’s relationship to horace is-could be his sister-it’s never been said they were married

  319. lola says:

    obviously i said screw it and am reading all comments now

  320. lola says:

    [quote comment="318357"]Before he came to the Island, Horace was driving with his wife Olivia 32 miles outside of Portland when he came upon Roger Linus carrying Emily Linus on the side of the road, right after Ben had been prematurely born. He wanted to take Ben’s dying mother to the hospital, but she died before he had the chance to. (“The Man Behind the Curtain”)

    ————-

    Olivia and Horace were involved with the DHARMA Initiative. Olivia worked on the Island as an elementary school teacher. Both Ben and Annie were in a class that she taught.(“The Man Behind the Curtain”) When the Hostiles attacked, Olivia reacted as though it was a not uncommon occurrence, and had a plan for how the students were to lock the doors and take cover. Olivia also matter-of-factly picked up a gun, and showed great proficiency with how she carried it.

    ————-

    SO maybe Olivia wasn’t the same Olivia that was his wife. Does he ever say that? Im gonna look at the transcripts!!

    ALl this is from Lostpedia. DOn’t want to get in trouble![/quote]

    it was never said that olivia was his wife, they share the same last name-perhaps his sister?

  321. sector7 says:

    I think Juliet and Sawyer should make a race of super-babies together. His physical genes and her mental genes — great combo!

  322. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318590"][/quote] Amy walked throught the fence also with what seem to be earplugs in.[/quote]

    Yeah – what’s with that? If Amy knows about it, chances are an enemy would figure it out, and there goes your fancy security system.[/quote]

    It might be that she ADJUSTED the security system to “stun” rather than “kill” and put the earplugs in at that time.

    : ) P

  323. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318630"]it was never said that olivia was his wife, they share the same last name-perhaps his sister?[/quote]

    I am not sure that on the show, her last name was even mentioned. It may be that LOSTpedia made the jump.

    Can anyone confirm that Olivia was ever CALLED Goodspeed on the show?

    : ) P

  324. shellonius funk says:

    it was also never said that oliva’s last name was goodspeed; LOSTpedia isn’t FACT. it’s fans’ conclusions.

    ben came to the island, i’m guessing, EARLY 70s. dharma was founded in 1970, and the fact that they still needed workers [roger] makes me think that they got to the island early on. plus, it being a few years later, now is the perfect time for young ben to make an appearance since the actor will have aged a few years.

    miraks, i like the thomas idea. there aren’t many other men i can think of that are close to/younger than charlotte’s age.

  325. lola says:

    [quote comment="318375"]Anyone think the Asian kid is the son of the guy in the Orientation videos…i think all of these kids are from the island[/quote]

    i do

  326. Melissa says:

    Another Egypt connection (that may have been mentioned, I’m not reading through all of the stuff about who the statue is, there’s no way to know for sure) – the eyeliner on Richard. Very Egyptian.

  327. lola says:

    [quote comment="318380"]i think just because richard came into the camp to talk to horace doesn’t mean that the others didn’t have a leader, or that he was their leader…he always seemed to have an authoritative role, even when ben was leading them…

    so if the episode ended in 1977, there is a good chance that widmore is still on the island and possibly their leader. since richard looked so clean cut tonight, i’m going to pose the theory that whenever widmore is exiled, the others have to live more primitively than ever before until closer to 15 years later when the purge takes place and they can be in power again…it’s a rough theory, but i’m working on it :)

    also, obviously dan had been there before in the 70’s or 80’s to warn charlotte about the island…now he’s back again and he says he won’t warn her…is he just living his life in a loop, keeping him between 1974 and 2005? i know that sounds a little crazy, but maybe? how does that all work? perhaps this is how alpert doesn’t age?[/quote]

    i think you are onto something here meaning the time loop

  328. Rebecca says:

    I saw last night’s episode (LaFleur). Some questions: what happened to the other survivors such as Bernard and Rose? Are they living in the Dharma initiative with Sawyer and co.? Also, if Sawyer and co. have been living with the Dharma Initiative for approx three years, wouldn’t they have encountered Ben who lived there with his father and eventually murdered members of the DI? Maybe this will be handled in another episode?

  329. Rebecca says:

    [quote comment="318576"]Kate needs to leave Sawyer alone!! It was so nice seeing him and Juliette happy, and I for one have always defended her/ not believed that she is not to be trusted or bad. Now whiny Kate shows up and just because she messed up things with Jack, she can’t just have Sawyer back. She made her pick- too back it did not work out. This is not “the bachelor(ette)”. LOL Sawyer gave his final “fleur” to Juliette.[/quote]
    I agree with you…I like Juliet more than Kate!!!

  330. confused says:

    wow some of yall have studied so much about this show, i cant believe all that i dont notice,haha, im enjoying reading all of this! i have a question though… what ever happened to rose and bernard? Are they flashing too, but we just dont know where they are?

  331. Fara-dayo says:

    I’ve read most of the posts and I’m surprised that no one brought up the connection of Horace “blowing up trees”, and the fact that that is exactly what the smoke monster does? Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

  332. i need answers says:

    I dont think its the TAWARET…only because when i first wikipedia’d it..the first picture they show of the statue it has 5 toes…so…i doubt it…. its probly would not be that obscure as well…im leanin toward Anubis..I just dont like how there is no staff with an ank or pointed dog ears….maybe that would be too obvious…the statue does look feminine with its weight tilted to one side and poppin a hip…but..if its a statue of Julliette…ill be pissed

  333. confused says:

    [quote comment="318657"]wow some of yall have studied so much about this show, i cant believe all that i dont notice,haha, im enjoying reading all of this! i have a question though… what ever happened to rose and bernard? Are they flashing too, but we just dont know where they are?[/quote]

    sorry i worded that wrong “were” they flashing with sawyer and his group… but just on another part of the island?

  334. shellonius funk says:

    lola/lins:
    i think that long-haired richard was just before ’74. that’s based on my theory, stated earlier, that ben got to the island in the EARLY 70s.

    i like the loop theory, but i have a feeling that the flashback we saw with faraday in the orchid with the mining get-up is actually a forthcoming flash-forward.
    we know from the comic con video that chang is about to be visited by folks who tell him bush is president and that the purge will happen. and since many of us assume that it’s daniel’s voice filming the video, that scratches him from the possibility of being the baby boy.

  335. Tasha says:

    Geez….Here I was thinking I missed something since I haven’t been on for an hour.

  336. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318659"]I’ve read most of the posts and I’m surprised that no one brought up the connection of Horace “blowing up trees”, and the fact that that is exactly what the smoke monster does? Does anyone have any thoughts on that?[/quote]

    Good catch. Could be significant.

    : ) P

  337. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318657"]wow some of yall have studied so much about this show, i cant believe all that i dont notice,haha, im enjoying reading all of this! i have a question though… what ever happened to rose and bernard? Are they flashing too, but we just dont know where they are?[/quote]

    I believe they must be flashing in time and living in the caves. Hasn’t been confirmed though. Probably Vincent is with them.

  338. RGS says:

    As far as Amy wanting to bury the bodies, in that particular instance it was to prevent Richard Alpert’s people from finding them, nothing too special in my opinion.

    Also I agree that Richard needed the body to show that they got the person who killed their men.

    I also agree that the statue is thousands of years old and is not purposefully an image of one of our Losties, but I guess I could accept that fact if it turned out to be true (though I strongly feel it is supposed to be one of the Egyptian gods…especially because of the animal ears).

  339. PJSander says:

    Several people have asked about Bernard and Rose (and Vincent). If you are looking for ACTUAL answers, the viewers have not been SHOWN those answers.

    If you are looking for THEORIES, then I agree that they have been flashing along with the RLOSTies and we will see them integrated into the 70’s with Sawyer et al. They will be the “rest of the crew” that Sawyer told Horace about.

    In a recent podcast, D&C confirmed that R&B are indeed alive. I believe that their characters, while not necessarily crucial, are significant enough to warrant a death scene should it come to that.

    : ) P

  340. confused says:

    [quote comment="318671"][quote comment="318657"]wow some of yall have studied so much about this show, i cant believe all that i dont notice,haha, im enjoying reading all of this! i have a question though… what ever happened to rose and bernard? Are they flashing too, but we just dont know where they are?[/quote]

    I believe they must be flashing in time and living in the caves. Hasn’t been confirmed though. Probably Vincent is with them.[/quote]

    okay thanks, thats what i was thinking!

  341. Rebecca says:

    [quote comment="318134"]In watching the past season over and over like we all do…I still cant figure out the time on the Island compared to the time off….it had been 4 days since locke saw Widmore on the Island…he still has a broken leg…locke then visits everyone..still with a broken leg…ben kills him with a broken leg…so where does 3 years fit in anywhere…I understand that locke didnt see all the losties cronologically but it couldnt have taken place over 3 years because of his cast…then he dies and goes back to the island within say a week….am I wrong or doesnt that mean lockes 4 days on the Island = close to 3 years…

    another thought I had is if Ben Killed locke to reinact the first flight…do we know how christian died…was he murdered perhaps?[/quote]
    Yes! This is driving me nuts too! It doesn’t seem possible that John was off the island for close to three years…he even seemed surprised when he learned that the Oceanic 6 had been back for three years. Could it have something to do with turning the wheel? When he reappeared in Tunisian, could close to three years have passed in the transition? Also, why was he able to walk at all (limp) once off the island? Wouldn’t he revert to needing a wheelchair full time? I hope the producers don’t screw us over by leaving all these mysteries!!

  342. confused says:

    theories on what happened to ben?

    i mean, i figured that sayid beat the mess out of him and thats why his face is so medded up… but i feel like i know nothing compared to yall.haha

  343. shellonius funk says:

    question:
    if juliet delivered the baby in our new time line [and wasn't there to do so in the original 1977], does that mean that the baby would’ve died [and likely won't be someone we've already met]?

  344. lola says:

    [quote comment="318504"]So to me, only the Losties will leave the island by the turning of the FDW in order to get back to their present day. Charlotte will leave by submarine. She certainly will not turn the wheel as a little girl, winding up in the middle of the desert with only her wits to survive. Who would turn it? Widmore is my guess, as he is tricked by a young Ben (that’s why he refers to him as a boy). How does Ben know that the wheel must be turned? Maybe Daniel tells him?

    Halliwax, I love,love, love the info you provided. Thanks for the clarification.
    I agree that the conversation with Sawyer sparks Alpert to seek out Locke as a teen. Lostpedia is probably off with their dates, as remember last time Alpert saw Locke, he leaves in a huff. Sawyer then changes his mind because he brings up Locke yet again. This re-energizes Alpert.

    Maybe the dust around the cabin is remnants of the statue? SRTR4K.

    It seemed to me from the earlier scene with Daniel, that he may be the one that puts into motion the idea of freezing the donkey wheel.
    Perhaps Olivia is killed in one of the incidents or battles between the hostiles and Dharma.

    I was thinking all along that when Alpert visits Ben as a child, it is from a time jump and not necessarily from not aging, but I’m not so sure anymore, as I don’t think it would be solely Alpert that is not aging, he’s the only one we’ve seen, but wouldn’t it also include his whole group?

    I am also thinking the comment by the psychiatrist, “you look just like her” actually refers to Juliette.[/quote]

    yeah when alpert meets ben in the woods (timewise AFTER where we are in last night’s episode)he’s dressed in shaggy, torn clothing but whe he “meets” saywer he’s clean cut in modern clothes…

  345. confused says:

    do we know for sure what happened to ben?
    why his face is so scratched up?
    i figured sayid did it to him, but whats yalls thoughts?

  346. shellonius funk says:

    i’m leaning more and more towards the baby being thomas, aaron’s dad….thanks to whomever mentioned it on here!

    i feel that way because richard’s peeps wanted amy; they had the bag on her head and were gonna take her. they didn’t care about paul.
    while this was 3 years before the baby’s birth, i think they knew there was something special about her.

  347. duke says:

    Ben took Alex a week after she was born in 1988 or early 1989 depending on what time of year ROus landed on the island. The purge did not occur until 1992 based on Horace’s statement of being dead for 12 years to Locke last year in Cabin Fever, I believe. So, who cared for her from 1988 until 1992? Ben couldn’t have showed up to his dad’s house with a baby. Did the hostiles/others care for her during this time? Maybe not the appropriate place for this questions but I was just lying awake last night trying to figure out the timeline and make the story make sense in my mind. Any insight would be appreciated.

  348. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318688"]i’m leaning more and more towards the baby being thomas, aaron’s dad….thanks to whomever mentioned it on here!

    i feel that way because richard’s peeps wanted amy; they had the bag on her head and were gonna take her. they didn’t care about paul.
    while this was 3 years before the baby’s birth, i think they knew there was something special about her.[/quote]

    _____
    I got the impression they were about to kill her. Where is the Thomas thing coming from? I really do not believe he is relevent to anything going on anymore. We don’t even know if he is really the father. Maybe Claire is like the Virgin Mary. Not likely, but I think Thomas’s story is done.

  349. RGS says:

    Well I can’t take credit for this but my lil friend thinks that the Polar Bear that winds up in Tunisia will be the cause of the turning of the wheel so that the Losties return to the present.

    Maybe it will be a scene where Ben tricks Widmore into a cave and Widmore suddenly finds himself being chase by the bear, who has no choice but to turn the wheel, and then the bear, not to be outdone, turns the wheel to try to catch him but is foiled because he flashes to a different time (just kidding).

  350. lola says:

    [quote comment="318541"]I think we need to go back farther than Egypt to get to the origins of the island.
    I propose than the island is none other than the LOST island of ATLANTIS. Atlantean culture supposedly influenced many ancient cultures. So Atlantis didn’t sink–it’s lost because we can’t find it because it keeps moving around in space and time.[/quote]

    AWESOME!!!

  351. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318683"]question:
    if juliet delivered the baby in our new time line [and wasn't there to do so in the original 1977], does that mean that the baby would’ve died [and likely won't be someone we've already met]?[/quote]

    Possible, but we really don’t know. Just because the doc on duty was an internist doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a doctor that COULD have performed a C-section if necessary. Sawyer didn’t wait around to ask, he just said Juliet would do it.

    : ) P

  352. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318694"]Ben took Alex a week after she was born in 1988 or early 1989 depending on what time of year ROus landed on the island. The purge did not occur until 1992 based on Horace’s statement of being dead for 12 years to Locke last year in Cabin Fever, I believe. So, who cared for her from 1988 until 1992? Ben couldn’t have showed up to his dad’s house with a baby. Did the hostiles/others care for her during this time? Maybe not the appropriate place for this questions but I was just lying awake last night trying to figure out the timeline and make the story make sense in my mind. Any insight would be appreciated.[/quote]

    ______

    You know your addicted when you lie awake at night wondering WHY! I am guessing the Others took care of her. That’s been on my mind too.

  353. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318697"][quote comment="318541"]I think we need to go back farther than Egypt to get to the origins of the island.
    I propose than the island is none other than the LOST island of ATLANTIS. Atlantean culture supposedly influenced many ancient cultures. So Atlantis didn’t sink–it’s lost because we can’t find it because it keeps moving around in space and time.[/quote]

    AWESOME!!![/quote]

    __________

    I somewhat agree and have always thought this is going to be something like that. I was thinking more toward the lost continent of Mu. Who knows….

  354. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318694"]Ben took Alex a week after she was born in 1988 or early 1989 depending on what time of year ROus landed on the island. The purge did not occur until 1992 based on Horace’s statement of being dead for 12 years to Locke last year in Cabin Fever, I believe. So, who cared for her from 1988 until 1992? Ben couldn’t have showed up to his dad’s house with a baby. Did the hostiles/others care for her during this time? Maybe not the appropriate place for this questions but I was just lying awake last night trying to figure out the timeline and make the story make sense in my mind. Any insight would be appreciated.[/quote]

    Ben was still pretending to be with DHARMA before the purge, so I think you are right about him not taking Alex home. My guess is that the hostiles / Others took her but that by the time she starts to form long term memories, the purge has happened and Ben takes the four- or five-year old Alex as his own.

    : ) P

  355. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318704"][quote comment="318697"][quote comment="318541"]I think we need to go back farther than Egypt to get to the origins of the island.
    I propose than the island is none other than the LOST island of ATLANTIS. Atlantean culture supposedly influenced many ancient cultures. So Atlantis didn’t sink–it’s lost because we can’t find it because it keeps moving around in space and time.[/quote]

    AWESOME!!![/quote]

    __________

    I somewhat agree and have always thought this is going to be something like that. I was thinking more toward the lost continent of Mu. Who knows….[/quote]

    or Lemuria

  356. i need answers says:

    bens wounds came from desmond kickin his ass…him trying to kill penny..or maybe even him killing hawking because she is not needed anymore..hawking…i think desmond was the boy that was born..also..we are still in for atleast 1 more time flash…because i bet we see young widmore turn the wheel…I enjoy the theory that they are on the lost city of atlantis…that could have some merit

  357. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="318575"][quote comment="318567"][quote comment="318289"]Did a freeze from on the dvr…appears to have ears like a dog….more dog references?[/quote]
    [quote comment="318344"]
    also the four toed statue was huge so there is no way that it just fell over and even if it did, it wouldnt just disappear, it wouldnt ever just deteriorate so i think someone took it down…but who put it up?[/quote]

    The statue flash back , in my opinion, took place thousands of years in the past- thus the statue cold very easily have disappeared- like the collosus of Rhodos. Since the island moves, if the statue fell over in the water, it could be anywhere.
    I’ll go with the theory that the statue had an egyptian/ or even pre-egyptian influence, and/ or is related to a LOST civilization.[/quote]
    //////////////////
    Obviously it fell over….it only had four toes !……was it the big toe or little toe that was missing?[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    It was the toe that dosn’t get roast beef. :)

  358. lola says:

    [quote comment="318543"][quote comment="318536] So are you saying that in 2003 or whenever, the psychiatrist tells Juliet that she (Juliet) reminds Ben of the time-travelling Juliet that Ben may remember from the 1970’s when he was a kid? Interesting possibility, but I still think the psychiatrist was referring to his mother.[/quote]

    Yep, but I was suggesting it as a relatively strong, alternate theory. Harper, probably does refer to his mother, except that we’ve seen his mother when her “apparition” visits him, and to me they did not look alike, though there was a portrait that did resemble Juliette.

    Reason why I suggested it is because if Ben develops a crush on her for whatever reason, bringing her back to the island would strenghten his belief that she was ‘his.’ Harper seems at least 5 years younger than Ben, if not more, so her memory would be more fuzzy than Ben’s.

    I don’t remember the exact comment Harper made, but if she said, “Ben says you remind him of her,” Ben could easily be lying. If she just matter-of-factly made the statement to Juliette, I don’t see a particularly huge leap in the theory because her memory of Juliette would be hazy in comparison.[/quote]

    one idea, maybe juliette reminds ben of olivia, his teacher?

  359. lola says:

    [quote comment="318544"]i spent too much time lastnight sweating horace’s connections with olivia and amy.

    then i realized: we have NO PROOF that horace and olivia were married. just because LOSTpedia, a fan-created site, says her last name is goodspeed is NOT enough proof for me.
    1. we saw her in the car with horace on the day of ben’s birth.
    2. she was ben’s teacher.
    none of this necessarily means that she was ever married to horace…unless i’ve missed something somewhere.
    if they HAD been married, then he would’ve had the “is 3 years really enough time” conversation BEFORE MARRYING AMY.

    i do wonder if there’s a tweenaged ben running around.

    and it seems the new baby boy would have to be someone daniel’s age [approx.]…other than daniel, i don’t really have any ideas. my friends guessed ethan, but i think he might be a little too old. it’s someone 3 years younger than charlotte.

    part of me wonders if it’s chang’s baby we heard crying in the video…they never SHOWED the baby, so we don’t know that it’s biologically theirs. i wouldn’t put it past amy to freak out and do something that would wind up putting the baby in someone else’s custody.[/quote]

    who’s chang?

  360. shellonius funk says:

    tasha:
    i got the thomas thing from miraks, comment 320.
    i don’t think we’re done with ANYONE associated with widmore…i wouldn’t be surprised if we see libby soon…

  361. birdwatcher says:

    Just a couple of observations – I don’t think that you have to actually turn the donkey wheel to time travel. Remember the time travelling bunnies? Maybe there is a different way to harness the special energy. Also, when you are transported, you don’t land in the same time you left. Ben landed 9 months later. Locke landed 3 years later. That means that Charlotte didn’t have to turn the wheel to leave and she might not have landed in 1977 or whatever year she left. Which may be why her birthdate was 1979 instead of 1971 (to correspond with the several years she lost whilst travelling through time off the island).

    And, am I the only one who thinks they aren’t changing the time line – these things already happened?

  362. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318647"][quote comment="318630"]it was never said that olivia was his wife, they share the same last name-perhaps his sister?[/quote]

    I am not sure that on the show, her last name was even mentioned. It may be that LOSTpedia made the jump.

    Can anyone confirm that Olivia was ever CALLED Goodspeed on the show?

    : ) P[/quote]
    **************************************************

    Per Lostpedia….
    Olivia’s last name has not been revealed within the show, however, she was listed as Olivia Goodspeed on ABC’s Lost website and it is unclear whether they are married or related by blood.

  363. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="318427"]Luv reading everyone’s posts..
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the “truce”? The Others appeared to have killed Paul and yet Richard appears and has determined that if two of his guys are missing, then Dharma broke the truce. And why does Paul’s dead body fulfill what the Others need in retribution (or return)? Wouldn’t it seem that the Others broke the truce if they killed a Dharma member first and seemed well on their way to killing Amy, too?
    Could the baby boy be Farraday?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I think Amy and Paul accidently broke the truce when they had their picnic. I heard her cry, “We didn’t know” when the others were putting the bag on her head. She and Paul probably crossed the imaginary line.

    I do think that Alpert took Pauls body to prove that he got “who killed the others” is a possibility but would Alpert lie to his people?

  364. lola says:

    OK SORRY CHANG IS CANDLE. one final point
    kate and sawyer all the way!

  365. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318662"]lola/lins:
    i think that long-haired richard was just before ’74. that’s based on my theory, stated earlier, that ben got to the island in the EARLY 70s.
    [/quote]

    Ben’s B-day Dec. 19th Early 60’s
    He arrived on the island approx 10 years after birth.
    Here is an image when he met Richard. Appears to be the same year he got to the island based on age

  366. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318723"]tasha:
    i got the thomas thing from miraks, comment 320.
    i don’t think we’re done with ANYONE associated with widmore…i wouldn’t be surprised if we see libby soon…[/quote]

    ____

    Ok. Well how is Thomas related to Widmore? Just making sure I didn’t miss anything.

  367. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="318698"][quote comment="318683"]question:
    if juliet delivered the baby in our new time line [and wasn't there to do so in the original 1977], does that mean that the baby would’ve died [and likely won't be someone we've already met]?[/quote]

    Possible, but we really don’t know. Just because the doc on duty was an internist doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a doctor that COULD have performed a C-section if necessary. Sawyer didn’t wait around to ask, he just said Juliet would do it.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    The Dr. on duty said that they sent women to the mainland to give birth, Amy was suppesed to leave the next Tuesday.

  368. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318735"][quote comment="318662"]lola/lins:
    i think that long-haired richard was just before ’74. that’s based on my theory, stated earlier, that ben got to the island in the EARLY 70s.
    [/quote]

    Ben’s B-day Dec. 19th Early 60’s
    He arrived on the island approx 10 years after birth.
    Here is an image when he met Richard. Appears to be the same year he got to the island based on age

    http://lostpedia.wikia.co/wiki/Image:Benandrichard.JPG%5B/quote%5D

    ********************************************
    Notice in the pic he has what appears to be a 20th century gun holster

  369. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318724"]Just a couple of observations – I don’t think that you have to actually turn the donkey wheel to time travel. Remember the time travelling bunnies? Maybe there is a different way to harness the special energy. Also, when you are transported, you don’t land in the same time you left. Ben landed 9 months later. Locke landed 3 years later. That means that Charlotte didn’t have to turn the wheel to leave and she might not have landed in 1977 or whatever year she left. Which may be why her birthdate was 1979 instead of 1971 (to correspond with the several years she lost whilst travelling through time off the island).

    And, am I the only one who thinks they aren’t changing the time line – these things already happened?[/quote]

    _____

    Nope. I am on your side. I think they keep throwing it in our face wodnering why we don’t just get it. Record turning. Can’t change what has already happened. All this happened. WOuldn’t it be some crap if time actually moved backwards. We look at time forward and don’t have the ability to see, we are all here for a reason. Anyhow I think the writers have given to us on a silver platter, but hey I am wrong all the time. So only time will tell LOL.

  370. shellonius funk says:

    the only thomas/widmore connection we know of so far is thomas’s paintings in widmore’s office.

  371. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318730"]
    Per Lostpedia….
    Olivia’s last name has not been revealed within the show, however, she was listed as Olivia Goodspeed on ABC’s Lost website and it is unclear whether they are married or related by blood.[/quote]

    Thanks, Jaime, I appreciate your help. However, for this particular item, I would prefer a source OUTSIDE of LOSTpedia. As already discussed, it is a FAN site and as such, prone to the kinds of errors we’ve already seen with this character. Until yesterday, Olivia was listed as Horace’s wife on LP. So as far as I am concerned, LP quoting ABC’s website is just careful back-pedaling.

    ABC’s website doesn’t have anything listed about any of the tertiary, or even secondary characters, so I am not sure where LP got that anyway.

    JMO,

    : ) P

  372. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="318743"][quote comment="318730"]
    Per Lostpedia….
    Olivia’s last name has not been revealed within the show, however, she was listed as Olivia Goodspeed on ABC’s Lost website and it is unclear whether they are married or related by blood.[/quote]

    Thanks, Jaime, I appreciate your help. However, for this particular item, I would prefer a source OUTSIDE of LOSTpedia. As already discussed, it is a FAN site and as such, prone to the kinds of errors we’ve already seen with this character. Until yesterday, Olivia was listed as Horace’s wife on LP. So as far as I am concerned, LP quoting ABC’s website is just careful back-pedaling.

    ABC’s website doesn’t have anything listed about any of the tertiary, or even secondary characters, so I am not sure where LP got that anyway.

    JMO,

    : ) P[/quote]

    ____
    SO who wants to volunteer to watch “The Man Behind the Curtain?” I found the Ben and Desmond scene. So somebody volunteer and see what was said!

  373. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318724"]
    And, am I the only one who thinks they aren’t changing the time line – these things already happened?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No, you are just one of the people that haven’t read all the posts to see that folks think that too. :)

  374. Circus Mom says:

    Finally caught up. Some questions and some thoughts and theorys.

    Sawyer refers to Horrace as their boss, so where is Chang?

    Why didn’t Miles ask the dead guys what happened and why?

    Still on Miles, while he and Juliette, Jin and Daniel were sitting at the picnic table at night Miles asks Juliette what she is staring at. She comments that she lived there for three years, etc. Miles says welcome home. He had been held prisenor there in 2004.

    Was Juliette perhaps staring at Ben????

    For those who say saving Amy changed things and prevented Horrace from marrying and perhaps having a child with Olivia. Whether they were married or brother and sister Horrice and Olivia were in Oregon in the EARLY 60’s when Ben was born. It is now 1974. Ben, and Roger, should either be on the island or about to arrive. I can’t wait to see Sawyer and Roger sitting and having a beer.

    At this point Jin is the only one we know to be born in 1974.

    Charlotte said she thought it might have been Daniel who told her never to return. Could it have been Sawyer?

    Could Daniel be Jacob???

  375. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318737"][quote comment="318698"][quote comment="318683"]question:
    if juliet delivered the baby in our new time line [and wasn't there to do so in the original 1977], does that mean that the baby would’ve died [and likely won't be someone we've already met]?[/quote]

    Possible, but we really don’t know. Just because the doc on duty was an internist doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a doctor that COULD have performed a C-section if necessary. Sawyer didn’t wait around to ask, he just said Juliet would do it.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    The Dr. on duty said that they sent women to the mainland to give birth, Amy was suppesed to leave the next Tuesday.[/quote]
    **************************************

    The rules for time travel as Faraday himself puts it: “Whatever happened, happened.” If Faraday is correct, Amy was always saved and her baby always delivered. Something or someone intervened. But does that “someone” have to be Sawyer and Juliet, or is the outcome more important than the details?

  376. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318748"][quote comment="318724"]
    And, am I the only one who thinks they aren’t changing the time line – these things already happened?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No, you are just one of the people that haven’t read all the posts to see that folks think that too. :)[/quote]
    _________________________
    LOL Hammer

  377. lola says:

    [quote comment="318742"]the only thomas/widmore connection we know of so far is thomas’s paintings in widmore’s office.[/quote]

    what’s the connection with the paintings, was it a painting we saw earlier in thomas/claire’s apt? i don’t remember and i didn’t catch that

  378. jaime says:

    My favorite line of the night came courtesy Miles….”By now he’s probably talking about time travel” Love that :)

  379. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318587"]patchy is??[/quote]
    Mikhail, one of the others, whom we saw in Season 3

  380. Amber says:

    NO NO NO Sawyer and Kate are suppose to be together!!! They better figure out something to fix this

  381. shellonius funk says:

    lola, thomas was the artist that painted the painting in widmore’s office [and claire's apt.]

  382. shellonius funk says:

    jin AND hurley were born in 74.
    not that i think either of them are the baby boy…
    especially since the baby was born in 77.

  383. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318743"][quote comment="318730"]
    Per Lostpedia….
    Olivia’s last name has not been revealed within the show, however, she was listed as Olivia Goodspeed on ABC’s Lost website and it is unclear whether they are married or related by blood.[/quote]

    Thanks, Jaime, I appreciate your help. However, for this particular item, I would prefer a source OUTSIDE of LOSTpedia. As already discussed, it is a FAN site and as such, prone to the kinds of errors we’ve already seen with this character. Until yesterday, Olivia was listed as Horace’s wife on LP. So as far as I am concerned, LP quoting ABC’s website is just careful back-pedaling.

    ABC’s website doesn’t have anything listed about any of the tertiary, or even secondary characters, so I am not sure where LP got that anyway.

    JMO,

    : ) P[/quote]
    *******************************************
    I hear ya

  384. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318751"]**************************************

    The rules for time travel as Faraday himself puts it: “Whatever happened, happened.” If Faraday is correct, Amy was always saved and her baby always delivered. Something or someone intervened. But does that “someone” have to be Sawyer and Juliet, or is the outcome more important than the details?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I am keeping this comment in the back of my head:

    BEN: I’m here, Charles, to tell you that I’m going to kill your daughter. Penelope, is it? And once she’s gone… once she’s dead… then you’ll understand how I feel. And you’ll wish you hadn’t changed the rules.

    I’m not sure what he meant by change the rules…but I can’t help but think that all this mention of ‘can’t change things’ is leading us to a TO changes things….

  385. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="318765"]jin AND hurley were born in 74.
    not that i think either of them are the baby boy…
    especially since the baby was born in 77.[/quote]
    +++++++++

    Hurley was born in 77. I don’t think he is the baby either.

  386. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318737"]
    The Dr. on duty said that they sent women to the mainland to give birth, Amy was suppesed to leave the next Tuesday.[/quote]

    True.

    That doesn’t mean that they don’t have a doctor on the island who COULD do a C-section if necessary. JMO.

    : ) P

  387. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318737"]
    The Dr. on duty said that they sent women to the mainland to give birth, Amy was suppesed to leave the next Tuesday.[/quote]

    True.

    That doesn’t mean that they don’t have a doctor on the island who COULD do a C-section if necessary. JMO.

    And for all we know, it was Sawyer bringing Horace into the house that “scared” her into early labor. She might otherwise have been fine “until Tuesday.”

    I know, I know… women don’t get SCARED into labor… I am just SAYING!

    : ) P

  388. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318746"]
    SO who wants to volunteer to watch “The Man Behind the Curtain?” I found the Ben and Desmond scene. So somebody volunteer and see what was said![/quote]

    No one has to watch to see what someone said. LOSTpedia has transcripts! I looked, and no where in the episode does it say that Olivia is a Goodspeed.

    Thanks, though.

    : ) P

  389. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="318493"]
    I really, REALLY hope that does not get much attention, but the way they played up Juliet/Sawyer’s relationship (Julyer? Sawiet?), Sawyer’s lines about not remembering what Kate looks like, etc, I fear it will be a significant subplot going forward.[/quote]

    People please….his name isn’t Sawyer anymore. :)

    How about LaLiet or JuFleur?

  390. ShelbyDee says:

    To Hammer, Shellonius and others who suggest that Juliet changed history by delivering the breech baby – many breech babies were and are delivered without medical intervention. If the baby was destined to be born, he would have been born without Juliet’s assistance. The bigger interference is with Amy being saved by the Losties – but again, if history corrects itself I’d think that the bag was over her head to keep her from seeing where they were taking her, and they may have released her later. They wouldn’t bother covering her head if they were going to kill her any way. Once released she’d marry and have the baby as she was meant to.

  391. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="318562"][quote comment="318556"]
    Bodies – What gives with the importance of burying bodies. We know that the purge victims weren’t buried. We know that Amy insisted that the others be buried. We know that Keamy insisted that Carl and Rousseau be buried. And we know that Charlotte disappeared when she was dead above ground. But what conclusion can we draw from that???
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    No conclusion for me yet….but interesting that the Others sent one of their dead floating out to sea instead of burying them on the island…eh?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I’ll add another one.
    Expose 3×14

    Locke to Paulo:
    “Things don’t stay buried on this Island”

  392. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="318635"]I think Juliet and Sawyer should make a race of super-babies together. His physical genes and her mental genes — great combo![/quote]

    But what if we end up with Juliet’s physical and Sawyer’s mental genes?

  393. pete says:

    thought it was a great episode sawyer and juliet are too happy (not for long thanks to kate) horace and the hippy cabbage was funny. not sure where ben is though and hoping he will be stopped before the purge also the end of last weeks episode ben is wearing gloves then when he picks up jins ring there gone dont see him take them off

  394. Toeknee says:

    I have read all the comments and I know noone mentioned this:

    Sawyer -excuse me – LaFleur has always been a con man. But when it comes time to con Alpert into not inflicting any damage on the Dharma-ites, he resorts to telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And it worked! I thought that was a neat little twist, and goes along with the other comments here about him being a different type of person in this episode.

  395. Hurley's Dad says:

    I think we may be on to something with the burying part. A nice subtle little thing for the writers to plug in once or twice a year and them hit us hard in Season 5 or 6.

    I’m torn on Taweret or Anubis. I can see both, which is probably intentional from the writers too. It’s the only way they can show us the statue without actually show us the statue, if you follow my ambiguity.

  396. PJSander says:

    I really feel like the next episode (called Namaste) is going to pick up where we left off this week. I think we will see Ben at twelve or thirteen, and possibly Annie again.

    And if our time traveling flashes are over, it is possible we will never see more of 4TS. I expect we will get its history at some point. Maybe in a school lesson with Ben and Annie?

    : ) P

  397. Hurley's Dad says:

    Has anybody heard the reason for the week off? Is it to push the finale farther into May?

  398. lola says:

    [quote comment="318784"]Has anybody heard the reason for the week off? Is it to push the finale farther into May?[/quote]

    march madness? basketball

  399. lola says:

    [quote comment="318783"]I really feel like the next episode (called Namaste) is going to pick up where we left off this week. I think we will see Ben at twelve or thirteen, and possibly Annie again.

    And if our time traveling flashes are over, it is possible we will never see more of 4TS. I expect we will get its history at some point. Maybe in a school lesson with Ben and Annie?

    : ) P[/quote]

    sorry-what’s 4TS?

  400. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318786"]sorry-what’s 4TS?[/quote]

    Four Toed Statue.
    *G*

    : ) P

  401. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318779"]thought it was a great episode sawyer and juliet are too happy (not for long thanks to kate) horace and the hippy cabbage was funny. [/quote]
    *********************************************

    The Grateful Dead: Phil and Jerry, brownie eating 1970s hippies, could be references to Phil Lesh and Jerry Garcia of The Grateful Dead. Then there’s Ramble On Rose..ie wearing her Geronimo Jackson shirt.
    The name of the band Grateful Dead has been attributed to this quote from the
    Egyptian Book of the Dead: “We now return our souls to the creator, as we stand on the edge of eternal darkness. Let our chant fill the void in order that others may know. In the land of the night the ship of the sun is drawn by the grateful dead.”

    Possible foreshadowing of the statue being Anubis or Horus

  402. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="318763"]lola, thomas was the artist that painted the painting in widmore’s office [and claire's apt.][/quote]

    I just through Thomas’s name out there because a. he would be abot the right age
    b. he is a boy
    c. he is RELATED to one of the most important characters on the show- Aaron
    d. there also seems to be a connection to Widmore
    e. he was at first happy to be with Claire and baby on the way, but later changed his mind (why?), which led to Claire eventually ending up on the island

    I know the likelyhood of baby Godspeed being Thomas is pretty low, but no less so than it being Ethan (who would have thus been Dharma and killed in the Purge)IMHO

  403. lola says:

    [quote comment="318763"]lola, thomas was the artist that painted the painting in widmore’s office [and claire's apt.][/quote]

    thanks, i knew who thomas was, i just never caught the picture hanging in widmore’s office…

  404. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318784"]Has anybody heard the reason for the week off? Is it to push the finale farther into May?[/quote]
    The scheduling “wheel” was off it’s track and they had to realign the finale for sweeps.

  405. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318783"]I really feel like the next episode (called Namaste) is going to pick up where we left off this week. I think we will see Ben at twelve or thirteen, and possibly Annie again.[/quote]
    I agree. I think we may see young Ben a couple of years older as previously suggested, like Walt.

    It is my belief that the attack by the hostiles we saw in S3E20, The Man Behind the Curtain, was thwarted by Lafleur and his talk with Alpert. I just don’t know how.:)

  406. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318785"][quote comment="318784"]Has anybody heard the reason for the week off? Is it to push the finale farther into May?[/quote]

    march madness? basketball[/quote]
    *********************************************

    Scrubs i think…season premier or finale

  407. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318796"][quote comment="318783"]I really feel like the next episode (called Namaste) is going to pick up where we left off this week. I think we will see Ben at twelve or thirteen, and possibly Annie again.[/quote]
    I agree. I think we may see young Ben a couple of years older as previously suggested, like Walt.

    It is my belief that the attack by the hostiles we saw in S3E20, The Man Behind the Curtain, was thwarted by Lafleur and his talk with Alpert. I just don’t know how.:)[/quote]
    ***************************************************

    Ben witnessed the attack from inside the school. Maybe this is the “traumatic life event” that sets him down his good/bad/evil path and changes him.

  408. birdwatcher says:

    [quote comment="318752"][quote comment="318748"][quote comment="318724"]
    And, am I the only one who thinks they aren’t changing the time line – these things already happened?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No, you are just one of the people that haven’t read all the posts to see that folks think that too. :)[/quote]
    _________________________
    LOL Hammer[/quote]

    ————————–
    Hammer and Toeknee – I did what PJ suggested and searched but didn’t find anything. I guess I searched on the wrong word (not quite sure what to search on in this case). I did read through quite portion of the entries – many, many talking about a “new” time line. If you could point me to the posts in question, it might have been a little nicer than what you wrote (Note: A smiley face doesn’t make your comment sound any nicer).

  409. mcotter says:

    [quote comment="318618"]
    Time travel concepts are always confusing. But, I think what we have to accept is that, the stuff we’re seeing now has already happened. The things they’re doing aren’t changing anything because they already happened that way before (we, the audience, just didn’t know it).

    When Daniel says “I’m not going to do it” he is thinking he can change the future by not telling Charlotte she’s going to die. Chances are, he will still tell her. Not because he knows he already did but because of his passion for Charlotte.

    I completely agree, they have not changed time and they have not split time into two alternate time lines, d&c have said there has to be fixed rules in time travel to avoid paradoxes, this is their fictional time travel story with its own rules and daniel keeps on quoting them, what happened, happened, i think there is going to be an episode called that coming up soon, you cannot change the past cause it has already happened, they just didn t know it, desmond can though change things because the rules don’t apply to him, again said quite clearly by Daniel, listen to what he says he’s like the direct middle man from D&C to the audience making it simpler and easier for us to understand because they know it is a huge risk introducing time travel

    The only one I’m not sure about w/the whole time travel thing is Desmond. Daniel said the rules don’t apply to Desmond (maybe because of the hatch explosion).[/quote]

  410. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318798"]

    Ben witnessed the attack from inside the school. Maybe this is the “traumatic life event” that sets him down his good/bad/evil path and changes him.[/quote]
    I think the traumatic life event was his father telling him he was responsible for the death of his mother on his own birthday.

  411. Lily says:

    I’m thinking LOST is going to prove to be one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart. It’s still entertaining but anyone with a physics background will be a little annoyed. I still love it!

  412. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="318802"][quote comment="318752"][quote comment="318748"][quote comment="318724"]
    And, am I the only one who thinks they aren’t changing the time line – these things already happened?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    No, you are just one of the people that haven’t read all the posts to see that folks think that too. :)[/quote]
    _________________________
    LOL Hammer[/quote]

    ————————–
    Hammer and Toeknee – I did what PJ suggested and searched but didn’t find anything. I guess I searched on the wrong word (not quite sure what to search on in this case). I did read through quite portion of the entries – many, many talking about a “new” time line. If you could point me to the posts in question, it might have been a little nicer than what you wrote (Note: A smiley face doesn’t make your comment sound any nicer).[/quote]
    +++++++++++

    Perhaps if you followed the rules and read all the posts like myself, Hammer, Toeknee and several others do you wouldn’t have gotten that comment. Being one who does read them all it gets quite tiring to read the same question 20 + times. It is also the reason there are so many comments to read.

  413. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318802"]Hammer and Toeknee – I did what PJ suggested and searched but didn’t find anything. I guess I searched on the wrong word (not quite sure what to search on in this case). I did read through quite portion of the entries – many, many talking about a “new” time line. If you could point me to the posts in question, it might have been a little nicer than what you wrote (Note: A smiley face doesn’t make your comment sound any nicer).[/quote]
    So you want Hammer to search for YOU, through all the posts, to find out who agrees with you? I almost added an LOL to that also.

    You have to understand that some posters that have been on this blog for some time grow tired of “I haven’t read all the posts”, me included. Or a generic statement such as yours at post #365. Surely someone agrees with your statement at #365.

    I realize you are new here, as by your first post under “This Place is Death” thread, and I hope you stay ( I found a couple of things you stated enlightening ), but Hammer said what some of us are thinking on a week to week basis.

    I think the smiley face was perfect. It was a joke.

  414. lola says:

    [quote comment="318808"][quote comment="318802"]Hammer and Toeknee – I did what PJ suggested and searched but didn’t find anything. I guess I searched on the wrong word (not quite sure what to search on in this case). I did read through quite portion of the entries – many, many talking about a “new” time line. If you could point me to the posts in question, it might have been a little nicer than what you wrote (Note: A smiley face doesn’t make your comment sound any nicer).[/quote]
    So you want Hammer to search for YOU, through all the posts, to find out who agrees with you? I almost added an LOL to that also.

    You have to understand that some posters that have been on this blog for some time grow tired of “I haven’t read all the posts”, me included. Or a generic statement such as yours at post #365. Surely someone agrees with your statement at #365.

    I realize you are new here, as by your first post under “This Place is Death” thread, and I hope you stay ( I found a couple of things you stated enlightening ), but Hammer said what some of us are thinking on a week to week basis.

    I think the smiley face was perfect. It was a joke.[/quote]

    are you a hostile? :)

  415. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318586"]I’ve read pretty much every comment but am still confused on the whisperers. Can someone please point me in the direction of that comment?[/quote]
    At the top of the blog where it says: LOST NEWS, ARCHIVES, EPISODES, THEORIES….Click on THEORIES and you will find it. AS my good friend say HTH.:)

  416. DocH says:

    [quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.

  417. birdwatcher says:

    No I don’t want Hammer to search for me – I did search – for a very long time and didn’t find what I was looking for. If he knew of a place (or around a place) that there was a comment on it, it might have been nice to mention it (especially since he said he read all the posts) instead of being rude. I’m sorry that I made a mistake. I’m sure all of you have had times when you wrote something that was already written.

    And I have been reading this blog for a couple of years. I don’t post much because I’m afraid I’ll miss something and have just what happened, happen. I was genuinely asking a question because I couldn’t find the answer and instead of something helpful, I got insulted. If your fed-up, either ignore the post or say something to be helpful. This is disheartening to say the least.

  418. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318810"]
    are you a hostile? :)[/quote]
    LOL. No I have not been around here since the beginning and I have been guilty of the same things as most new posters. I guess, in LOST terms, I might be an 815er. Whereas you would be a 316er.:)

  419. lola says:

    [quote comment="318815"][quote comment="318810"]
    are you a hostile? :)[/quote]
    LOL. No I have not been around here since the beginning and I have been guilty of the same things as most new posters. I guess, in LOST terms, I might be an 815er. Whereas you would be a 316er.:)[/quote]
    —————
    actually i’ve been here for a few seasons too, never made comments ’til last year, sort of hiding out and watching…so then does that make me an observer in The Pearl Station? OK geekin’ out over here…

  420. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318814"]No I don’t want Hammer to search for me – I did search – for a very long time and didn’t find what I was looking for. If he knew of a place (or around a place) that there was a comment on it, it might have been nice to mention it (especially since he said he read all the posts) instead of being rude. I’m sorry that I made a mistake. I’m sure all of you have had times when you wrote something that was already written.

    And I have been reading this blog for a couple of years. I don’t post much because I’m afraid I’ll miss something and have just what happened, happen. I was genuinely asking a question because I couldn’t find the answer and instead of something helpful, I got insulted. If your fed-up, either ignore the post or say something to be helpful. This is disheartening to say the least.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Posting a theory that has been voiced in most if not all of the threads this season and many last season as “Am I the only one” is why I reacted. Thanks for ‘searching’ first. :) means don’t take it to heart.

    We are just asking for the courtesy of reading all the posts. I read your whole post and all the ones you posted before it…before I read that line.

    It’s all good.

  421. Hammer says:

    LOL…we are all WHISPERERS…we can be heard, but no one sees us. AND we are often hard to understand….:)

  422. lola says:

    [quote comment="318818"]LOL…we are all WHISPERERS…we can be heard, but no one sees us. AND we are often hard to understand….:)[/quote]

    exactly!

  423. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318814"]No I don’t want Hammer to search for me – I did search – for a very long time and didn’t find what I was looking for. If he knew of a place (or around a place) that there was a comment on it, it might have been nice to mention it (especially since he said he read all the posts) instead of being rude. I’m sorry that I made a mistake. I’m sure all of you have had times when you wrote something that was already written.

    And I have been reading this blog for a couple of years. I don’t post much because I’m afraid I’ll miss something and have just what happened, happen. I was genuinely asking a question because I couldn’t find the answer and instead of something helpful, I got insulted. If your fed-up, either ignore the post or say something to be helpful. This is disheartening to say the least.[/quote]
    birdwatcher – please don’t take our comments too personally. If you have been reading here for a while you must realize that this comes up ALL the time, and someone will regularly remind people to read all the posts because a lot of comments do get repeated. I “LOL”‘d because I found Hammer’s reminder to you creatively funny – a different way to tell you (or anyone) to read through all the posts.

    Also, I am one who DOES agree with your question in #364, that there is no new timeline, that these things always happened. I wrote about it in #243, and again in #252, so in this instance I was more tuned into your comment and was well aware that there were plenty of folks who do agree with you. Again, if you’ve been reading here the last few weeks, you have seen this same issue (whatever happened, happened) discussed over and over.

    And, on this particular subject if you do want to skip right to the posts dealing with it, do a search (CTRL-F) for “happened”.

  424. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="318814"]No I don’t want Hammer to search for me – I did search – for a very long time and didn’t find what I was looking for. If he knew of a place (or around a place) that there was a comment on it, it might have been nice to mention it (especially since he said he read all the posts) instead of being rude. I’m sorry that I made a mistake. I’m sure all of you have had times when you wrote something that was already written.

    And I have been reading this blog for a couple of years. I don’t post much because I’m afraid I’ll miss something and have just what happened, happen. I was genuinely asking a question because I couldn’t find the answer and instead of something helpful, I got insulted. If your fed-up, either ignore the post or say something to be helpful. This is disheartening to say the least.[/quote]
    birdwatcher – please don’t take our comments too personally. If you have been reading here for a while you must realize that this comes up ALL the time, and someone will regularly remind people to read all the posts because a lot of comments do get repeated. I “LOL”‘d because I found Hammer’s reminder to you creatively funny – a different way to tell you (or anyone) to read through all the posts.

    Also, I am one who DOES agree with your question in #364, that there is no new timeline, that these things always happened. I wrote about it in #243, and again in #252, so in this instance I was more tuned into your comment and was well aware that there were plenty of folks who do agree with you. Again, if you’ve been reading here the last few weeks, you have seen this same issue (whatever happened, happened) discussed over and over.

    And, on this particular subject if you do want to skip right to the posts dealing with it, do a search (CTRL-F) for “happened”.

  425. Toeknee says:

    Oh dang! Here I am telling people how to use this blog and then I go and do a double post! Sorry everyone.

  426. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318814"]No I don’t want Hammer to search for me – I did search – for a very long time and didn’t find what I was looking for. If he knew of a place (or around a place) that there was a comment on it, it might have been nice to mention it (especially since he said he read all the posts) instead of being rude. I’m sorry that I made a mistake. I’m sure all of you have had times when you wrote something that was already written.

    And I have been reading this blog for a couple of years. I don’t post much because I’m afraid I’ll miss something and have just what happened, happen. I was genuinely asking a question because I couldn’t find the answer and instead of something helpful, I got insulted. If your fed-up, either ignore the post or say something to be helpful. This is disheartening to say the least.[/quote]
    /////////////////////////
    dont worry about it , dont pay them no mind ,thems nothing but big ol’ bullies!
    why i been told off lots o times,i dont pay them no heed![ma best californe accent .]

  427. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318818"]LOL…we are all WHISPERERS…we can be heard, but no one sees us. AND we are often hard to understand….:)[/quote]
    //////////////////////////////
    especially since some of us speak backwards!

  428. Cleo McCoy says:

    I am new to the blog but I have an idea I wanted to throw into the ring- here goes- Sawyer is John Locke!!! Wadda ya think???
    They are both orphans, they were both after the same con man and, correct me if I’m wrong, but they sure seemed to be highligting a much more peaceful, serene Swayer, crowsfeet and all, in last night’s episodes. I couldn’t help but notice the facial similarities.
    I know you are all much more into the dicsection of Lost, but I like it too, so be kind :)

  429. Hammer says:

    Are you the real McCoy? :)

    Now that’s a theory that I have not heard before…LOL I don’t think that the show is no gonna have two of the same guy interacting with each other. But interesting….

  430. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318814"]No I don’t want Hammer to search for me – I did search – for a very long time and didn’t find what I was looking for. If he knew of a place (or around a place) that there was a comment on it, it might have been nice to mention it (especially since he said he read all the posts) instead of being rude. I’m sorry that I made a mistake. I’m sure all of you have had times when you wrote something that was already written.

    And I have been reading this blog for a couple of years. I don’t post much because I’m afraid I’ll miss something and have just what happened, happen. I was genuinely asking a question because I couldn’t find the answer and instead of something helpful, I got insulted. If your fed-up, either ignore the post or say something to be helpful. This is disheartening to say the least.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Birdwatcher, there is room for everyone on this blog. Please don’t be discouraged or afraid to post your questions. I really don’t believe anyone MEANS to be insulting or hurtful – sometimes things just “sound” different in print than they do in your head when you write them. No way to put in vocal inflections etc. – we have to believe that :) really DOES mean good will and try to believe they meant well, even if it feels a bit harsh.

    I’ve been posting on this blog for a very long time now and have found that most of the regular posters seem to be genuinely caring and helpful people. We all just LOVE LOST!

  431. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318813"][quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?

  432. Lily says:

    [quote comment="318806"]I’m thinking LOST is going to prove to be one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart. It’s still entertaining but anyone with a physics background will be a little annoyed. I still love it![/quote]

    oopsie…I mean cart before the horse. Thanks.

  433. Rita says:

    Birdwatcher, most of the big discussions about whether or not things “have always happened” or were changed, didn’t take place on this thread – which is why you aren’t finding much in your searching. Look through the past few threads, searching for keywords (use the ctrl and F key function) – if you are interested in the topic there were some really good ideas there and some lively debate. You can access the prior threads by clicking on them at the top of this thread, along the right side of the column. Happy searching!

  434. I LUV this Show says:

    So, it sounds like the consensus is that Ben & Locke are on the other island in real time (i.e. 2007/2008) does this mean that, assuming Sun went off w/the pilot in the boat, that Sun and Jin won’t ever be reunited? Thoughts…

  435. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="318846"]So, it sounds like the consensus is that Ben & Locke are on the other island in real time (i.e. 2007/2008) does this mean that, assuming Sun went off w/the pilot in the boat, that Sun and Jin won’t ever be reunited? Thoughts…[/quote]+++++++
    Well, IF Sun and Frank are together in the dugout boat, I want to know why they didn’t flash with the rest of the group that left on the copter. I thought they were a group that had to come back together. IF they came back to the same time as Jack et al, then I am still confused on why they didn’t flash out of the plane.

    Regardless of what time Sun is…I feel that they will be reunited. Whether time travel is required or not, I think it will happen.

  436. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="318848"][quote comment="318846"]So, it sounds like the consensus is that Ben & Locke are on the other island in real time (i.e. 2007/2008) does this mean that, assuming Sun went off w/the pilot in the boat, that Sun and Jin won’t ever be reunited? Thoughts…[/quote]+++++++
    Well, IF Sun and Frank are together in the dugout boat, I want to know why they didn’t flash with the rest of the group that left on the copter. I thought they were a group that had to come back together. IF they came back to the same time as Jack et al, then I am still confused on why they didn’t flash out of the plane.

    Regardless of what time Sun is…I feel that they will be reunited. Whether time travel is required or not, I think it will happen.[/quote]
    ________________

    I would think that Sun flashed together with Sayid and is in 1977.
    Maybe the woman that took off with the pilot was Penny?
    I know we did ot see her get on the plane, but that does not mean she wasn’t there. I’d rather have her on the plane than beaten to death by Ben as some here have suggested.

  437. DocH says:

    [quote]This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?[/quote]
    A couple of seasons back, they showed a huge blueprint with a half dozen tunnels spidering out from under the barracks. The jpg image I have is called – “3x12_ParAvion_Cabling_Map”.
    The large tunnels are labeled “20′ Deep Passage”.

  438. Missy says:

    [quote comment="318777"][quote comment="318562"][quote comment="318556"]
    Bodies – What gives with the importance of burying bodies. We know that the purge victims weren’t buried. We know that Amy insisted that the others be buried. We know that Keamy insisted that Carl and Rousseau be buried. And we know that Charlotte disappeared when she was dead above ground. But what conclusion can we draw from that???
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    No conclusion for me yet….but interesting that the Others sent one of their dead floating out to sea instead of burying them on the island…eh?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I’ll add another one.
    Expose 3×14

    Locke to Paulo:
    “Things don’t stay buried on this Island”[/quote]
    _______________
    I can’t recall the episode – but doesn’t Juliet give an odd reaction to being told where Ethan or Tom (one of the others) was buried?

  439. Abaddon says:

    There are always 2 pilots on a plane…..it’s possible that a co pilot (not lapidus) and a woman (not sun) got in a dug out boat. it would make since sayid would be in 77 too and forgive me but it looked like in the preview he was in 77 but LOST is known for showing deceiving stuff in their previews

  440. Abaddon says:

    my apologies i just saw not to comment on episode previews i’m sorry everybody

  441. Halliwax says:

    I read a few posts up there that believe the 4TS is the goddess Tawaret.. in my humble opinion I think it’s highly unlikely for the following reasons..

    – Tawaret was depicted with the head and body of a hippo, back of a crocodile, upper and lower extremities of a lion (aka paws).. our 4TS possesses none of these as far as we can tell.. and the knee high skirt worn by the statue is only worn by males.. females have ankle long skirts.. and Tawaret specifically wore no clothing at all other than the flat crown

    – the visible right hand at this angle displays phalanges with distal and proximal flexibility like a human or related species as they are curved around the loop of what looks like ankh.. Tawaret, on the other hand (no pun intended), has her rather stiff paw resting at a 90 degree angle facing forward on the sign of protection, or Saa, which is shaped similar to ankh with the loop at the top but more of a two pronged bottom serving as a walker type device.. in addition the four toes themselves look rather humanoid rather than resembling the paw of a feline

    – also this statue does not possess the back of the crocodile, although it is true that Tawaret was only occasionally shown as such.. the reason for this depiction was that Tawaret was thought to be married to the crocodile god Sobek who was worshipped in the city of Kom Ombo in upper egypt so she absorbed some of his physical qualities in reliefs and statues created in the region surrounding Kom Ombo such as Luxor or Aswan, but not in lower egypt which is where the Giza pyramids and sphinx are located and where our primary interests most likely lie regarding the Lost-Egypt mythos

    – regarding the head and body of a hippo.. we can’t tell from this angle but we can surmise based on the overall observable waist circumference and girth.. tawaret has tremendous girth as a goddess of pregnancy and delivery should have and although we don’t have a frontal view.. girth manifests itself in all regions of ones body.. our statue is rather lean especially in the hamstrings.. the ratio of upper to lower torso is also rather equal, whereas Tawaret’s upper torso predominates in all representations throughout egyptian history.. in other words this is the body of a human not a hippo

    Tawaret’s role in egyptian mythology fits with the island pregnancy issues but like hammer said that may have showed up later with ben.. so if this does end up being Tawaret, as an archaeologist i’d be really disappointed with the research quality put in by carlton and damon.. and i doubt they’d make that big a mistake so it likely isn’t

    To this point I’ve been unable to think of any god or goddess that 100% fits that mold.. this makes me think that statue may in fact have the face of someone on the show and we’ll be shocked when they show it

  442. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318846"]So, it sounds like the consensus is that Ben & Locke are on the other island in real time (i.e. 2007/2008) does this mean that, assuming Sun went off w/the pilot in the boat, that Sun and Jin won’t ever be reunited? Thoughts…[/quote]

    There was a LOT of debate about “who” the two were that ran off (according to Ilana) when TLaDoJB aired. Personally, I don’t think it was Frank and Sun. I don’t even think it was Frank! As I understand it, all flights have to have a co-pilot. Someone sees a man in a pilot uniform running away, I don’t think he or she will stop to think which pilot it was!

    My vote is for Frank, Sun, Sayid (and perhaps others we don’t yet know were on the plane) to have flashed with Kate, Hurley and Jack, but they ended up somewhere other than the lake area.

    Perhaps those that actually “crashed” in the plane are ALSO in 1977, but we just don’t know it yet. The possible reference we have is the office at the Hydra station, but was there anything in there to definitively put the timeline AFTER the 1970’s?

    Now I am going to contradict myself. Michael tricked Hurley, Kate and Jack (along with Sawyer) into going with him to rescue Walt, so maybe those three WERE the only ones that flashed.

    Maybe it is too late to be speculating so hard! LOL

    : ) P

  443. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="318861"][quote comment="318846"]So, it sounds like the consensus is that Ben & Locke are on the other island in real time (i.e. 2007/2008) does this mean that, assuming Sun went off w/the pilot in the boat, that Sun and Jin won’t ever be reunited? Thoughts…[/quote]

    There was a LOT of debate about “who” the two were that ran off (according to Ilana) when TLaDoJB aired. Personally, I don’t think it was Frank and Sun. I don’t even think it was Frank! As I understand it, all flights have to have a co-pilot. Someone sees a man in a pilot uniform running away, I don’t think he or she will stop to think which pilot it was!

    My vote is for Frank, Sun, Sayid (and perhaps others we don’t yet know were on the plane) to have flashed with Kate, Hurley and Jack, but they ended up somewhere other than the lake area.

    Perhaps those that actually “crashed” in the plane are ALSO in 1977, but we just don’t know it yet. The possible reference we have is the office at the Hydra station, but was there anything in there to definitively put the timeline AFTER the 1970’s?

    Now I am going to contradict myself. Michael tricked Hurley, Kate and Jack (along with Sawyer) into going with him to rescue Walt, so maybe those three WERE the only ones that flashed.

    Maybe it is too late to be speculating so hard! LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++
    I think it was Frank and the redhead that got on 316 who left in the boat. I think Sun and Sayid are in 1977 with the others/hostils. I can’t explain why Frank didn’t go to 77 unless it is because he only spent about a week on the island.

  444. wally p says:

    [quote comment="318503"][quote comment="318477"]
    I don’t know if anybody has brought this up, but it seems to me that Faraday’s theory is not correct. He says that you can’t change the past. But, have they not done just that in this episode? Without Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention, Amy would have died. Thus, Amy wasn’t supposed to end up with Horace, and their child wouldn’t have even been born had Sawyer and Juliet’s intervention not taken place. For that matter, Amy wouldn’t have even delivered the child successfully without Juliet. So it seems like the Losties are, indeed, altering things. Unless this is how it all REALLY HAPPENED? I suppose that’s possible. That would have to mean that the 1977 Losties must get back to real-time somehow, because they do, after all, get to the Island and are the same physical age in 2004 when they take the original Oceanic flight.
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++
    My wife threw that one at me this morning…was Juliette changing the past? Was Amy and ‘new boy’ supposed to die? Is there a person being alive that wasn’t supposed to (the baby) going to change the future?[/quote]

    ************************
    Is the baby Jacob?!?!
    ***************************

    [quote comment="318563"]someone please comment on my 272…re olivia and amy’s baby.

    also…horace built jacob’s cabin [for himself/horace’s self and “the missus”…pre-purge.
    i’m wondering where jacob stayed before that.
    or if jacob was simply being held captive there and that’s why he said “help me.”?
    i feel like jacob is a really old character like alpert, but with all the time-jumping, it certainly seems possible he could be someone “newer”.[/quote]

    *************************************
    ….Concieved in the shack meh-bbee…

  445. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318848"]
    To this point I’ve been unable to think of any god or goddess that 100% fits that mold.. this makes me think that statue may in fact have the face of someone on the show and we’ll be shocked when they show it[/quote]
    IMO. Maybe the creators of the 4TS, TBTD, didn’t want it to be defined by 1 “god” or religion. We have seen all major religions involved in this show, at some point. Maybe the 4TS is a mix of “gods”, not one specific?

    I forgot about the FFL RULES.:)

  446. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318860"]
    To this point I’ve been unable to think of any god or goddess that 100% fits that mold.. this makes me think that statue may in fact have the face of someone on the show and we’ll be shocked when they show it[/quote]
    Sorry Halliwax, didn’t mean to misquote. I appreciate your expertise. I need to read #464 from last week’s post.:) My nose bleeds alot.

  447. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318848"][Well, IF Sun and Frank are together in the dugout boat, I want to know why they didn’t flash with the rest of the group that left on the copter. I thought they were a group that had to come back together. [/quote]
    For Logic’s sake…Please…Sun and Sayid better be in 1977. :) I get it now.

    But who are the people telling us they had to come back together? Ben and Ms. Hawking. We know Ben lies, I would not put it past Ms. Hawking either. She seemed pretty satisfied with taking anyone available, at one point.

  448. Newbie says:

    Now I’m a little intimidated by all the pouncing on birdwatcher, but there’s something that I have been thinking about on course correction that I believe hasn’t been proposed here but I think Hammer somewhat alluded to it. I try to read all the posts. So here it is and please forgive me in advance if this has already been discussed:
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. I think the main reason for the survivors to return to the island or, for that matter, to crash on the island in the first place is so that their presence and their interaction with the island can course-correct the events. I think this is why it’s their ‘destiny’ and why the island brought them here. So may be Charlotte isn’t meant to die in time skipping; may be the purge was never meant to happen. Some posts above have discussed that no matter what Faraday does he wont be able to prevent Charlotte’s death. But we’re assuming, in that case, that Charlotte’s death is the correct course. May be it’s not. Someone way before messed around with events that steered them off course in a direction that lead to the unfortunate death of Charlotte and the purge. I think the interplay of the survivors with the island will put history back on its rightful course. So, in sum, I don’t think Sawyer, Juliette, Jin, Miles and Faraday going back to 1977 are messing up the past. Quite the opposite..they’re actually fixing the past or assisting the universe in course-correcting events that someone else messed up. Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.

  449. wally p says:

    [quote comment="318616"]I am new to the blog and have read all 300 comments….someone commented on Richard wearing nice clothes–comment 149.
    But when you see the “hostiles” hold Amy and Paul up at gunpoint they were wearing their “dirty” clothes.

    Could the “Richard” we saw last night been him from another time, a time before the crash in 04, but from the future point of 1974? We saw him come to the aid of John, in a previous episode this season, as if he “sent himself” there to heal and talk to him.

    thoughts?[/quote]

    I still dont think Richard travels through time… faith I guess, what I find weird about the Others is that they always seem to take the role of whoever they take over… Even in 2004 they dress up in rags… but anyways

    John Locke most likely will meet up with Richard again, and explain to him all that has happened. This is how Richard will know that John Locke has to die, and when to find him and give him the compass…

  450. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318883"]Now I’m a little intimidated by all the pouncing on birdwatcher.[/quote]
    I am sorry you see it that way.:(

  451. Newbie says:

    I was re-reading some previous posts and found that Duke’s comment, #24, in the 316 thread pretty much says the same thing I’m trying to get across. But I dont think it was discussed that much.

  452. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="318886"][quote comment="318883"]Now I’m a little intimidated by all the pouncing on birdwatcher.[/quote]
    I am sorry you see it that way.:([/quote]
    *****
    But that didn’t scare me enough to not write :)

  453. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318890"]I was re-reading some previous posts and found that Duke’s comment, #24, in the 316 thread pretty much says the same thing I’m trying to get across. But I dont think it was discussed that much.[/quote]
    Hi Mrs. duke.:)

  454. LostJunkie says:

    Well I think the Ajira flight definitely landed in 2008 (present time), because recall the earlier episode where Sawyer finds the Ajira water bottle on the beach. And at that time, Sawyer’s group had flashed sometime into the “present.” And it was clear that the water bottle was new, not like it had been there for years or even months.

    I don’t think Lapidus is in 1977 because he wasn’t on the original Oceanic 815 flight (even if some have speculated he SHOULD have been the pilot, he still wasn’t on that flight). I think the “pilot” that ran off with the woman in a canoe after the Ajira landing was indeed Lapidus. I like the theory of the woman he ran off with being the redheaded woman we saw board Flight 316. Sun and Sayid should be in 1977, although the question then is, why didn’t they flash along with Jack/Kate/Hurley into the waterfall area? For dramatic purposes, they will probably make us wait for a Jin-Sun reunion, but I’m sure there is a valid reason as to why Sun and Sayid did not land in the same place as Jack/Kate/Hurley.

    As for the possibility of Charlotte eventually being alive, I think ANYBODY we have seen die has the possibility of coming back alive. I say this because Desmond (whom the rules don’t apply to, according to Faraday) may have the power to change everything. His role on this show is critical, I think…super critical. I also can’t get his “see you in another life brother” quote out of my head. Seems that it could be more than just a catch-phrase, considering what we’ve seen him do in this show so far and what he’s capable of. It’s like his subconscious KNOWS he will see whomever he says that to again. Just maybe.

  455. RGS says:

    I think if folks are looking for a reasonable explanation as far as the Ajira folks flashing to different spots and timelines, you will not find one. Hawkings said they had to recreate everything as best they could. They obviously could not, thus the result of their travel would be as she stated, “unpredictable.”

    So Sun can very well be in 2008 with Jin in 1977, to me their reunion would be a subplot that could last the rest of this season and into next if need be.

  456. RGS says:

    [quote comment="318883"]Now I’m a little intimidated by all the pouncing on birdwatcher, but there’s something that I have been thinking about on course correction that I believe hasn’t been proposed here but I think Hammer somewhat alluded to it. I try to read all the posts. So here it is and please forgive me in advance if this has already been discussed:
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. I think the main reason for the survivors to return to the island or, for that matter, to crash on the island in the first place is so that their presence and their interaction with the island can course-correct the events. I think this is why it’s their ‘destiny’ and why the island brought them here. So may be Charlotte isn’t meant to die in time skipping; may be the purge was never meant to happen. Some posts above have discussed that no matter what Faraday does he wont be able to prevent Charlotte’s death. But we’re assuming, in that case, that Charlotte’s death is the correct course. May be it’s not. Someone way before messed around with events that steered them off course in a direction that lead to the unfortunate death of Charlotte and the purge. I think the interplay of the survivors with the island will put history back on its rightful course. So, in sum, I don’t think Sawyer, Juliette, Jin, Miles and Faraday going back to 1977 are messing up the past. Quite the opposite..they’re actually fixing the past or assisting the universe in course-correcting events that someone else messed up. Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.[/quote]

    I’m not sure one can say that “what happened, happened” and then turn around and state that the Losties or Left Behinders are fixing things.

    For instance in 198X a whole bunch of Dharma folks will die. That is what happened. If folks are able to “fix it” then perhaps they don’t die by Ben gassing them, but instead, Ben plans a huge banquet and poisons the food/drinks, or he locks up all the guns, shuts down the sonic fence and allows the Hostiles to go buck wild, etc. The bottom line is a whole bunch of Dharma folks will die because that is what happened.

    Charlotte will die on the island, whether she gets there from Widmore funding, or was on the original 815 flight, or some subsequent method, she will arrive on the island and die.

  457. Jason says:

    [quote comment="318694"]Ben took Alex a week after she was born in 1988 or early 1989 depending on what time of year ROus landed on the island. The purge did not occur until 1992 based on Horace’s statement of being dead for 12 years to Locke last year in Cabin Fever, I believe. So, who cared for her from 1988 until 1992? Ben couldn’t have showed up to his dad’s house with a baby. Did the hostiles/others care for her during this time? Maybe not the appropriate place for this questions but I was just lying awake last night trying to figure out the timeline and make the story make sense in my mind. Any insight would be appreciated.[/quote]
    Dude, if you are lying awake at night thinking about Lost, you need to seek some professional help! That’s a great question though. Not sure who would have looked after her during that time.

  458. Sawyer's Constant says:

    Finally got through all of the previous post so I can make a comment concerning everyone’s opinions on the islands latest romance.
    I have always been in favor of Kate/Sawyer being together in the end, so was surprised to find myself (reluctantly) approving of the Sawyer/Juliet pairing. I have never been a fan of Juliet’s, but if she makes Sawyer happy…so be it. I find it amusing that you all are apprehensive of Kate showing up and messing that up. What about Jack showing up and now Juliet ditching Sawyer for Jack? It was apparent early on that Juliet had her heart set on Jack. So, cut Kate some slack. Jack and Juliet had a huge influence on how Kate behaved in the past and Sawyer didn’t mind being her booty call (or so he said). Kate didn’t always behave rationally, but Jack certainly doesn’t either.

  459. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318883"]
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. I think the main reason for the survivors to return to the island or, for that matter, to crash on the island in the first place is so that their presence and their interaction with the island can course-correct the events. I think this is why it’s their ‘destiny’ and why the island brought them here. So may be Charlotte isn’t meant to die in time skipping; may be the purge was never meant to happen. Some posts above have discussed that no matter what Faraday does he wont be able to prevent Charlotte’s death. But we’re assuming, in that case, that Charlotte’s death is the correct course. May be it’s not. Someone way before messed around with events that steered them off course in a direction that lead to the unfortunate death of Charlotte and the purge. I think the interplay of the survivors with the island will put history back on its rightful course. So, in sum, I don’t think Sawyer, Juliette, Jin, Miles and Faraday going back to 1977 are messing up the past. Quite the opposite..they’re actually fixing the past or assisting the universe in course-correcting events that someone else messed up. Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.[/quote]

    So you are saying that the O815 crash WAS a course correction? I think I can buy into that. Clearly SOME (if not all) of the O815ers were PUT on that plane. I am going to mull that over a bit.

    : ) P

  460. shellonius funk says:

    DocH: love the tunnels theory; we know they exist (for smokey) and it makes sense.

    birdwatcher and new folks…hammer wasn’t being rude; in fact he said exactly what i was thinking (implying that you should read everything first). the only reason we get frustrated is because we DO read (sometimes for days) everything before posting.
    and even if you DID read everything, i completely understand how muddled your/our thoughts can get.
    the more i read and piece together, the more i solidify theories in my head which, at this point, i can’t even recall if they’re uniquely mine or not since they’re influenced by everything i’ve read on here.
    i don’t even know if that makes sense.
    but i’ll stew on ideas for days to the point where i don’t even know if i’ve mentioned them MYSELF.

    anyhoo…i’ve been watching season 1 again, and it’s amazing to watch john locke absorb everything as if he’s been there already. i mean…in a sense he HAS [in the (forth-coming) past]. watching old eps makes me appreciate the show even more.

    i’m still on board with miraks about thomas being the baby. mainly because of the age and widmore connection. and the aaron connection. the only reason i was wondering if juliet’s interference with the delivery may have altered things is to determine whether the baby is someone we may not have even met yet.

    folks i’m HOPING to see on the island:
    helen, crazy-numbers-loony bin guy, and libby. and libby’s husband…if she even WAS married…

    i’m also waiting for more half-sibling relationships to be revealed. jack is a nickname for john, and they have a jillion other parallels…

  461. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318899"]Well I think the Ajira flight definitely landed in 2008 (present time), because recall the earlier episode where Sawyer finds the Ajira water bottle on the beach. And at that time, Sawyer’s group had flashed sometime into the “present.” And it was clear that the water bottle was new, not like it had been there for years or even months.[/quote]

    I agree that the water bottle is a clue to the fact that an Ajira flight lands sometime after January 2008.

    However, I disagree that it is “new” as seen here:

    http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=122742&fullsize=1

    : ) P

  462. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="318804"][quote comment="318798"]

    Ben witnessed the attack from inside the school. Maybe this is the “traumatic life event” that sets him down his good/bad/evil path and changes him.[/quote]
    I think the traumatic life event was his father telling him he was responsible for the death of his mother on his own birthday.[/quote]

    ***************************

    I think the event that changed been was seeing Annie die. Maybe she got mixed up in some Dharma experiment and died accidentally.

  463. i need answers says:

    Has anyone talked on the theory of Jacob being Horace and Amy’s baby…Maybe thats why he is in the cabin..because Horace was building it when locke saw him dead…also..that could be why he said to locke “help me”..because if locke didnt turn the FDW the last time and stop he time travel he never would have been born because of Julliette being the only one to perform a Sea Section..also the writers did say its someone we havent me before…Just a thought

  464. shellonius funk says:

    i don’t remember…did abaddon think that walt was supposed to come back? seems like he did.

  465. gmta leah says:

    Now I am going to contradict myself. Michael tricked Hurley, Kate and Jack (along with Sawyer) into going with him to rescue Walt, so maybe those three WERE the only ones that flashed.

    ////////////////////////////
    Thats been bugging me since the off.when they were all on the dock …purple flash,…ear renching sound … yet no visible change in time/nose bleeds nothing ,no difference ?or was that the same instant the hatch imploded?

  466. shellonius funk says:

    booooooo, answers, with the spoiler!!! (about someone we haven’t seen yet)
    well at least i can hang up my thomas theory…

    i don’t think it’s jacob because locke mentioned jacob in ’54 to richard, and richard seemed to know what’s up.
    i have been wondering about the “help me” though. i think it might have something to do with ben holding him hostage in the cabin? not sure.
    but when john visits christian there, i don’t recall the ring of gunpowder/ash/whatever around the cabin.
    not sure what that means…

  467. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318923"][quote comment="318883"]Now I’m a little intimidated by all the pouncing on birdwatcher, but there’s something that I have been thinking about on course correction that I believe hasn’t been proposed here but I think Hammer somewhat alluded to it. I try to read all the posts. So here it is and please forgive me in advance if this has already been discussed:
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. I think the main reason for the survivors to return to the island or, for that matter, to crash on the island in the first place is so that their presence and their interaction with the island can course-correct the events. I think this is why it’s their ‘destiny’ and why the island brought them here. So may be Charlotte isn’t meant to die in time skipping; may be the purge was never meant to happen. Some posts above have discussed that no matter what Faraday does he wont be able to prevent Charlotte’s death. But we’re assuming, in that case, that Charlotte’s death is the correct course. May be it’s not. Someone way before messed around with events that steered them off course in a direction that lead to the unfortunate death of Charlotte and the purge. I think the interplay of the survivors with the island will put history back on its rightful course. So, in sum, I don’t think Sawyer, Juliette, Jin, Miles and Faraday going back to 1977 are messing up the past. Quite the opposite..they’re actually fixing the past or assisting the universe in course-correcting events that someone else messed up. Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.[/quote]

    I’m not sure one can say that “what happened, happened” and then turn around and state that the Losties or Left Behinders are fixing things.

    For instance in 198X a whole bunch of Dharma folks will die. That is what happened. If folks are able to “fix it” then perhaps they don’t die by Ben gassing them, but instead, Ben plans a huge banquet and poisons the food/drinks, or he locks up all the guns, shuts down the sonic fence and allows the Hostiles to go buck wild, etc. The bottom line is a whole bunch of Dharma folks will die because that is what happened.

    Charlotte will die on the island, whether she gets there from Widmore funding, or was on the original 815 flight, or some subsequent method, she will arrive on the island and die.[/quote]
    ////////////////////
    I believe the purge will not happen because charlotte and daniel disarmed the gas.in SE4 .which is an act of course correcting [sort of]

  468. shellonius funk says:

    leah, that WAS when the hatch imploded.
    i also noticed that the sky was purple on this last episode during the final flash. i think it’s something about the un-sticking in time.
    that’s when desmond’s flashes started..with the first purple sky i mean…when he turned the fail safe key.

  469. gmta leah says:

    And while were on the subject of why 316 losties didnt come down together , Because the first flight,815 crashed in two pieces ot opposite sides of the island.

  470. Kathy P says:

    Im thinking that Ben killed Penny or Desmond or even baby Charlie and some how got their body (bodies) on the flight? Why? I don’t know. Remember Ms Hawking said the island was not done with Desmond. If any of them were dead and then they were brought to the island what would happen? Would they come back like Locke? Any thoughts?

  471. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="318850"][quote comment="318848"][quote comment="318846"]So, it sounds like the consensus is that Ben & Locke are on the other island in real time (i.e. 2007/2008) does this mean that, assuming Sun went off w/the pilot in the boat, that Sun and Jin won’t ever be reunited? Thoughts…[/quote]+++++++
    Well, IF Sun and Frank are together in the dugout boat, I want to know why they didn’t flash with the rest of the group that left on the copter. I thought they were a group that had to come back together. IF they came back to the same time as Jack et al, then I am still confused on why they didn’t flash out of the plane.

    Regardless of what time Sun is…I feel that they will be reunited. Whether time travel is required or not, I think it will happen.[/quote]
    ________________

    I would think that Sun flashed together with Sayid and is in 1977.
    Maybe the woman that took off with the pilot was Penny?
    I know we did ot see her get on the plane, but that does not mean she wasn’t there. I’d rather have her on the plane than beaten to death by Ben as some here have suggested.[/quote]
    **********************

    My vote was for the woman with Frank being Penny as well.

  472. DocH says:

    [quote] …have never been a fan of Juliet’s, but if she makes Sawyer happy… so be it. I find it amusing that you all are apprehensive of Kate showing up and messing that up. What about Jack showing up and now Juliet ditching Sawyer for Jack? It was apparent early on that Juliet had her heart set on Jack. So, cut Kate some slack…
    [/quote]
    Kate hasn’t done a thing to deserve Sawyer. She has NOT changed her law breaking, “I do what want” ways. She has never tried the redemption route, she should’ve been behind bars for the past decade, not galavanting around, giving away Claire’s baaabbby.

    Sawyer, Mister Criminal himself actual found redemption. He jumped from the helo to save the OA6, leading the way for other Losties. He has been doing nothing but good work, and the tough jobs, since the island dealt him his cards.

    Juliet, seems like she is the anti-Kate (a GOOD thing). A fertility doctor, helping people, lured to the island, to help people. Jack fancied her for all of the three weeks he knew her. Kate had three+ months to be pro-Jack or pro-Sawyer, she waffled then, and will again… she is, and always will be, pro-Kate.

    Now Juliet and Sawyer – they’ve had three years together. They get out of bed, kiss, tell each other they love another, hug – three years together. Freckles and Doc aren’t just going to walk into the barracks and change that… they’ll lose because they are losers. Juliet was always a reletive winner while Sawyer earned top Brownie points in the island trenches.

    (okay, now take what I said and flip it entirely around… that’s what they will write to.)

  473. DocH says:

    [quote]And while were on the subject of why 316 losties didnt come down together , Because the first flight, 815 crashed in two pieces on opposite sides of the island.[/quote]
    Three pieces, not two.

  474. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318834"][quote comment="318813"][quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?[/quote]
    ***************************************************

    This has been one of my theories as well in past threads. I believe that its possible the remnants of the ancient civilization are below the barracks and Dharma stations. They were built right over top.
    I had never thought of the tunnels though as a way for people to travel about, that’s a great theory that would explain Richards comment about getting past the security fence.

  475. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="318983"]leah, that WAS when the hatch imploded.
    i also noticed that the sky was purple on this last episode during the final flash. i think it’s something about the un-sticking in time.
    that’s when desmond’s flashes started..with the first purple sky i mean…when he turned the fail safe key.[/quote]
    ***************************
    I thought that when Desmond turned the fail-safe key, 815 crashed. That was when he tried to leave on the boat. Wasn’t the flash when Kate/Sawyer/Jack/Hurley were with the Others cause by Locke letting the computer count down? Was that when he started flashing, cause that was when he showed up in the woods naked?

  476. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318983"]leah, that WAS when the hatch imploded.
    i also noticed that the sky was purple on this last episode during the final flash. i think it’s something about the un-sticking in time.
    that’s when desmond’s flashes started..with the first purple sky i mean…when he turned the fail safe key.[/quote]
    /////////////////////
    Right then ,heres my take on things[ simply put ] when theres an explosion of atom splitting ,ie.a bomb[jughead]. it causes an implosion, which in turn causes a black hole ,which sucks everything in ,matter, objects ,even time . through a hole and out the other side causing a parallel . Now im not a scientist so im only going of what i learnt at school , which was some time ago.
    If on emergin the other side , there s some thing missing from the original ie, 6 passengers from the OA815.If they dont return then this will upset the balance and make the whole world in danger.

  477. Rita says:

    [quote comment="318997"][quote comment="318983"]leah, that WAS when the hatch imploded.
    i also noticed that the sky was purple on this last episode during the final flash. i think it’s something about the un-sticking in time.
    that’s when desmond’s flashes started..with the first purple sky i mean…when he turned the fail safe key.[/quote]
    ***************************
    I thought that when Desmond turned the fail-safe key, 815 crashed. That was when he tried to leave on the boat. Wasn’t the flash when Kate/Sawyer/Jack/Hurley were with the Others cause by Locke letting the computer count down? Was that when he started flashing, cause that was when he showed up in the woods naked?[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Desmond “caused” 815 to crash when he was LATE in putting in the numbers. He was late because he had followed Kelvin, who was trying to leave on Desmond’s boat. Desmond killed him and ran back to the station and put in the numbers. No flash then, just the crash. He turned the fail-safe key when the computer was counting down and it was TOO LATE to input the numbers – that was the “purple sky event” and the presumed beginning of Desmond’s time travels.

  478. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318997"][quote comment="318983"]leah, that WAS when the hatch imploded.
    i also noticed that the sky was purple on this last episode during the final flash. i think it’s something about the un-sticking in time.
    that’s when desmond’s flashes started..with the first purple sky i mean…when he turned the fail safe key.[/quote]
    ***************************
    I thought that when Desmond turned the fail-safe key, 815 crashed. That was when he tried to leave on the boat. Wasn’t the flash when Kate/Sawyer/Jack/Hurley were with the Others cause by Locke letting the computer count down? Was that when he started flashing, cause that was when he showed up in the woods naked?[/quote]
    //////////////////////////
    no the oa815 crashed when desmond was late, imputing the code, after fighting with kelvin.

  479. Melissa says:

    [quote comment="319006"][quote comment="318997"][quote comment="318983"]leah, that WAS when the hatch imploded.
    i also noticed that the sky was purple on this last episode during the final flash. i think it’s something about the un-sticking in time.
    that’s when desmond’s flashes started..with the first purple sky i mean…when he turned the fail safe key.[/quote]
    ***************************
    I thought that when Desmond turned the fail-safe key, 815 crashed. That was when he tried to leave on the boat. Wasn’t the flash when Kate/Sawyer/Jack/Hurley were with the Others cause by Locke letting the computer count down? Was that when he started flashing, cause that was when he showed up in the woods naked?[/quote]
    //////////////////////////
    no the oa815 crashed when desmond was late, imputing the code, after fighting with kelvin.[/quote]

    *******************
    CLICK – thanks guys for keeping me straight.

  480. gmta leah says:

    not quick enough! :)

  481. DharmaGreg says:

    Couple random theories after watching LaFleur again:

    Horace was in love with Paul and he hasn’t been able to get over it in the past three years.

    Sawyer is not in love with Juliet, he is playing her. She is an other and I still don’t trust her.

    The statue was in the future. When we saw the foot before, the rest of it was missing because it hadn’t been built yet.

    Also, anyone notice that one of the guys trying to kidnap Amy had a large tattoo on his arm? Those guys looked more like rednecks than any type of Anubis-worshipping immortals. Maybe there is a “Deliverance” element here that we are all missing. Squeal piggy!

  482. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318874"][quote comment="318848"]
    To this point I’ve been unable to think of any god or goddess that 100% fits that mold.. this makes me think that statue may in fact have the face of someone on the show and we’ll be shocked when they show it[/quote]
    IMO. Maybe the creators of the 4TS, TBTD, didn’t want it to be defined by 1 “god” or religion. We have seen all major religions involved in this show, at some point. Maybe the 4TS is a mix of “gods”, not one specific?

    I forgot about the FFL RULES.:)[/quote]
    *************************************************

    There is a god, who’s name i have forgotten, that is a mix of Anubis and I want to say Greek god Hermes.

  483. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="318980"]Now I am going to contradict myself. Michael tricked Hurley, Kate and Jack (along with Sawyer) into going with him to rescue Walt, so maybe those three WERE the only ones that flashed.[/quote]

    I’ll take it a step further for step further’s sake.

    When the purple flash happened while Hurley, Kate and Jack (along with Sawyer) were on the dock, Sayid and Sun (along with Jin) were on Desmond’s boat.

    Technically speaking (REALLY technically speaking) none of the Ajira folk were on the island at that time. All of them were over the water.

  484. sector7 says:

    Ok everyone, it’s time, once again, for one of my far reaching theories…..

    I’ve always wondered why Richard isn’t just always the leader of the Others. Why have Ben, or Widmore, or Locke as the leader when Richard Alpert is always there anway? Then I started to really contemplate the reason for the eyeliner… R.A. is Ra, the ancient egyptian sun god. Do you think this guy has been alive for only 300 years, or more like 3000+?

  485. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="318995"][quote]And while were on the subject of why 316 losties didnt come down together , Because the first flight, 815 crashed in two pieces on opposite sides of the island.[/quote]
    Three pieces, not two.[/quote]
    /////////////////////
    i meant two groups !

  486. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318921"]I think if folks are looking for a reasonable explanation as far as the Ajira folks flashing to different spots and timelines, you will not find one. Hawkings said they had to recreate everything as best they could. They obviously could not, thus the result of their travel would be as she stated, “unpredictable.”

    So Sun can very well be in 2008 with Jin in 1977, to me their reunion would be a subplot that could last the rest of this season and into next if need be.[/quote]
    *********************************************

    I agree. I think Sun, Sayid and Frank are in the same time line as the 316ners.
    Theories though as to why Sun and Sayid did not flash with Hurley, Kate and Jack????
    Maybe it has to do with falling out of favor with the island. Sayid became an assasin for Ben. Sun began to work with Widmore. Sayid did achieve some sort of redemption by his humanitarian efforts.
    Where did we first see Kate, Hurley, Sayid and Sun when 815 crashed?

  487. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318958"][quote comment="318804"][quote comment="318798"]

    Ben witnessed the attack from inside the school. Maybe this is the “traumatic life event” that sets him down his good/bad/evil path and changes him.[/quote]
    I think the traumatic life event was his father telling him he was responsible for the death of his mother on his own birthday.[/quote]

    ***************************

    I think the event that changed been was seeing Annie die. Maybe she got mixed up in some Dharma experiment and died accidentally.[/quote]
    **********************************************
    Yes, it is definitely more than his father being an ass.

  488. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="319022"]Ok everyone, it’s time, once again, for one of my far reaching theories…..

    I’ve always wondered why Richard isn’t just always the leader of the Others. Why have Ben, or Widmore, or Locke as the leader when Richard Alpert is always there anway? Then I started to really contemplate the reason for the eyeliner… R.A. is Ra, the ancient egyptian sun god. Do you think this guy has been alive for only 300 years, or more like 3000+?[/quote]

    I think that might be possible.

    I am more leaning toward either a pre-egyptian society, or an unknown society, not necessarily a known civilization though. My bet would be on something more along the lines of Atlantis/ Mu/ Lemuria/ …

  489. Jason says:

    [quote comment="318997"][quote comment="318983"]leah, that WAS when the hatch imploded.
    i also noticed that the sky was purple on this last episode during the final flash. i think it’s something about the un-sticking in time.
    that’s when desmond’s flashes started..with the first purple sky i mean…when he turned the fail safe key.[/quote]
    ***************************
    I thought that when Desmond turned the fail-safe key, 815 crashed. That was when he tried to leave on the boat. Wasn’t the flash when Kate/Sawyer/Jack/Hurley were with the Others cause by Locke letting the computer count down? Was that when he started flashing, cause that was when he showed up in the woods naked?[/quote]
    Desmond followed Inman (I think that was his name) outside the hatch. He accidently killed him by hitting his head on the rocks. While he was out there, he saw his boat. THATS when flight 815 crashed because by the time he got back to the hatch, it had already counted down. Him turning the fail-safe key DEFINITELY is what made the sky turn purple when Jack, Sawyer and Kate were at the docks. It’s also when Michael and Walt left the island.

  490. Rita says:

    [quote comment="319015"]
    The statue was in the future. When we saw the foot before, the rest of it was missing because it hadn’t been built yet.
    [/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I would be curious to know why you think this?

    In any case, the Dharma compound seems to be located very close to the Temple of the Others, maybe even on top of some of it. It is odd then, that the Others would have entered into any kind of truce with Dharma that would allow them to be THERE of all places. On the island, OK, but not THERE. It may be the actual reason that the Others have become the “hostiles” towards them. Then again, they weren’t all that welcoming to the army group either – but in all fairness, they DID after all, bring a big bomb.

  491. Sawyer's Constant says:

    [quote comment="318990"][quote] …have never been a fan of Juliet’s, but if she makes Sawyer happy… so be it. I find it amusing that you all are apprehensive of Kate showing up and messing that up. What about Jack showing up and now Juliet ditching Sawyer for Jack? It was apparent early on that Juliet had her heart set on Jack. So, cut Kate some slack…
    [/quote]
    Kate hasn’t done a thing to deserve Sawyer. She has NOT changed her law breaking, “I do what want” ways. She has never tried the redemption route, she should’ve been behind bars for the past decade, not galavanting around, giving away Claire’s baaabbby.

    Sawyer, Mister Criminal himself actual found redemption. He jumped from the helo to save the OA6, leading the way for other Losties. He has been doing nothing but good work, and the tough jobs, since the island dealt him his cards.

    Juliet, seems like she is the anti-Kate (a GOOD thing). A fertility doctor, helping people, lured to the island, to help people. Jack fancied her for all of the three weeks he knew her. Kate had three+ months to be pro-Jack or pro-Sawyer, she waffled then, and will again… she is, and always will be, pro-Kate.

    Now Juliet and Sawyer – they’ve had three years together. They get out of bed, kiss, tell each other they love another, hug – three years together. Freckles and Doc aren’t just going to walk into the barracks and change that… they’ll lose because they are losers. Juliet was always a reletive winner while Sawyer earned top Brownie points in the island trenches.

    (okay, now take what I said and flip it entirely around… that’s what they will write to.)[/quote]
    ===================

    Wow! You feel pretty strongly about this, huh!

    I won’t try to flip it around, because you are totally entitled to your opinion. I was just saying everyone was seeing this love square being shaken by Kate and I see some potential for the old “Jack/Juliet” alliance to also shake things up a bit. Just because Juliet does not appeal to me personally does not mean I said she is a bad person. She had the hots for Jack early on and maybe when they set eyes on each other again there may me a lingering look too. I just really meant that it is going to really get interesting…

  492. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="318958"]
    I think the event that changed been was seeing Annie die. Maybe she got mixed up in some Dharma experiment and died accidentally.[/quote]
    You think Annie is dead? I could buy that.

  493. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="318987"]And while were on the subject of why 316 losties didnt come down together , Because the first flight,815 crashed in two pieces ot opposite sides of the island.[/quote]

    Okay, but A316 is definitely in ONE piece, so I am not sure that one relates to the other at all.

    : ) P

  494. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319042"]I won’t try to flip it around, because you are totally entitled to your opinion. I was just saying everyone was seeing this love square being shaken by Kate and I see some potential for the old “Jack/Juliet” alliance to also shake things up a bit. Just because Juliet does not appeal to me personally does not mean I said she is a bad person. She had the hots for Jack early on and maybe when they set eyes on each other again there may me a lingering look too. I just really meant that it is going to really get interesting…[/quote]

    Honestly, I think the romantic angles are going to be downplayed from this point forward. Other than a Sun / Jin reunion scene, I don’t think we are going to see a lot of romance. There is too much story left to tell mythologically speaking to spend a lot of air time on romantic polygons.

    That said, it was clear that we are to believe that Sawyer and Juliet are a happy, comfortable couple, resigned to live “happily ever after” through the 70s and 80s and beyond. I don’t think Sawyer was emotionally invested in Kate the way he appears to be with Juliet.

    BFE (Before the Freighter Explosion – which is an easier way to delineate, then to say the year LOL) Juliet had a lil ole crush on Jack, but knew that the feelings were not reciproKATEd (sorry, the pun was just there ASKING me to let it out).

    If we do see some romance, I think that Kate will be relieved that Sawyer is safe and happy. I think the Jack will shed the shackles of leadership, chill and realize that it is okay to love a murdering fugitive with a good heart and allow himself to fall properly for Kate.

    So no crazy romantic fighting, just Saywer with Juliet, and Jack with Kate. And Desmond with Penny, Sun with Jin, Bernard with Rose. (And on the “zombie season,” Sayid with Shannon, Hurley with Libby, Charlie with Claire, Daniel with Charlotte, Locke with Helen, Miles with Ana Lucia, Ben with Annie.) (And on LOST The Next Generation, Ji Yeon with Aaron, little Charlie with as-yet-unnamed baby Goodspeed.)

    : ) P

  495. shellonius funk says:

    rita…i’m with you on the why THERE.
    the others seem nomadic to me; like they don’t just have one camp in one place.
    not sure why i think this; i feel like something has alluded to it.

    i’m still scratching my head about them seeing the statue while sawyer was standing in the filled-in well.
    i care less about WHAT the statue was and more about WHEN it was.

  496. Jason says:

    I think Rose will have an affair with Hurley and Kate will end up with Ben. Oh yeah, who cares who Kate, Juliet, Sawyer and Jack end up with. Maybe they’ll have a giant orgy together! :)

  497. Miraks says:

    Pretty strong resemblance. I am betting on the statue being male for sure.

  498. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="318982"][quote comment="318923"][quote comment="318883"]
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. …. Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.[/quote]

    I’m not sure one can say that “what happened, happened” and then turn around and state that the Losties or Left Behinders are fixing things.

    For instance in 198X a whole bunch of Dharma folks will die. That is what happened. If folks are able to “fix it” then perhaps they don’t die by Ben gassing them, but instead, Ben plans a huge banquet and poisons the food/drinks, or he locks up all the guns, shuts down the sonic fence and allows the Hostiles to go buck wild, etc. The bottom line is a whole bunch of Dharma folks will die because that is what happened.

    Charlotte will die on the island, whether she gets there from Widmore funding, or was on the original 815 flight, or some subsequent method, she will arrive on the island and die.[/quote]
    ////////////////////
    I believe the purge will not happen because charlotte and daniel disarmed the gas.in SE4 .which is an act of course correcting [sort of][/quote]

    *****************************
    But Daniel disarmed the gas in 2004. So when they travel back into the 70s, that disarmament hasn’t happened yet.

  499. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319052"]
    i’m still scratching my head about them seeing the statue while sawyer was standing in the filled-in well.
    [/quote]
    The well was filled-in after they flashed to the Dharma Days and the statue had disappeared.

  500. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="318943"][quote comment="318883"]
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. …Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.[/quote]

    So you are saying that the O815 crash WAS a course correction? I think I can buy into that. Clearly SOME (if not all) of the O815ers were PUT on that plane. I am going to mull that over a bit.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ********************
    Yes! Thats exactly what I’m saying!! I don’t understand why it would be their ‘destiny’ to crash onto the island otherwise.

  501. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319052"]i’m still scratching my head about them seeing the statue while sawyer was standing in the filled-in well.[/quote]

    The 4TS was seen in the scene BEFORE the well was dug, when Sawyer was holding the rope that just went into the ground.

    Then they flashed to a new time (1974) when the well was filled in, but still had the wall around it.

    Chronologically, I think it is

    First: no well (the first no well, the angels did sing) = 4TS time

    Next: well (Locke goes down)

    Finally: filled-in well (DHARMA years)

    HTH
    : ) P

  502. duke says:

    [quote comment="318585"][quote comment="318551"]Juliet certainly does get around. She was an other, a lostie, and now part of the DI. The only character to do all three, correct?

    Also, I find it interesting how much Sawyer has changed since he came to the island. First a rogue who blackmailed people and hoarded basic needs, like medicine. Now much more heroic, leader, a shepherd. (Like Jack, but not as whiny.)[/quote]
    ————–

    I think your giving sawyer to much credit. He still living a lie and putting his con-man charm to work. Same ole’ same ole’

    just wait until his feelings for Kate come up again. Can you say Dh-rama?[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Did anyone actually believe that Sawyer was telling the truth when he spoke to Horace about 3 years being enough time to get over someone? It seemed rather obvious to me that he did not even believe the words coming out of his mouth. He had seemingly moved on but the despair in his face was tremendous. Kate was/is the one person that could keep Sawyer in check and challenge him to be better than he thought himself to be. Juliette took over this role by backing his decisions as leader but there are most definately unresolved feelings for Kate that have to play out somehow.

  503. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="318923"][quote comment="318883"]
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. …. Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.[/quote]

    I’m not sure one can say that “what happened, happened” and then turn around and state that the Losties or Left Behinders are fixing things.

    ******
    I still believe that the purge did ‘happen’ but may be it happened because events got steered off course. The purge may have been an ‘off-course’ event, or it may not have been. Likewise Charlotte’s death may have been an ‘off-course’ event. So when I say the Losties are ‘fixing’ things, I mean that they’re helping put events back on their true course. And once they’ve course corrected, certain events that we believe to be indelibly stamped into time at this point may not happen.
    ********

    Charlotte will die on the island, whether she gets there from Widmore funding, or was on the original 815 flight, or some subsequent method, she will arrive on the island and die.[/quote]
    *****
    Thats assuming that Charlotte’s death on the island is on the true course of events. Sure, she’ll die eventually..everyone will..but is she meant to die so soon?

    All I’m saying is that this is a possibility and a probable explanation for why its the O815’ers ‘destiny’ to be on the island.

  504. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="319043"][quote comment="318958"]
    I think the event that changed been was seeing Annie die. Maybe she got mixed up in some Dharma experiment and died accidentally.[/quote]
    You think Annie is dead? I could buy that.[/quote]

    **********************

    Ben is a sick puppy, who apparently knows all about the island/Jacob and it’s unique properties. However, he wasn’t always sick, in fact, he seemed to be a kid lacking love until Annie came along. Something really profound must have happened to that poor girl at the hands of Dharma for him to kill all of those people including his dad.

  505. duke says:

    [quote comment="318648"]it was also never said that oliva’s last name was goodspeed; LOSTpedia isn’t FACT. it’s fans’ conclusions.

    ben came to the island, i’m guessing, EARLY 70s. dharma was founded in 1970, and the fact that they still needed workers [roger] makes me think that they got to the island early on. plus, it being a few years later, now is the perfect time for young ben to make an appearance since the actor will have aged a few years.

    miraks, i like the thomas idea. there aren’t many other men i can think of that are close to/younger than charlotte’s age.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I always imagined Thomas and Claire to be early twenties when they she got pregnant not 27-28 years old. A couple of kids themselves trying and struggling to make things work. LEaving little doubt in my mind that the baby could possibly be Thomas. The baby would be 27-28 years old in 2004 when losties first crashed. I will go on record as saying that the baby is definately not THomas

  506. RGS says:

    [quote comment="319064"]
    I still believe that the purge did ‘happen’ but may be it happened because events got steered off course. The purge may have been an ‘off-course’ event, or it may not have been. Likewise Charlotte’s death may have been an ‘off-course’ event. So when I say the Losties are ‘fixing’ things, I mean that they’re helping put events back on their true course. And once they’ve course corrected, certain events that we believe to be indelibly stamped into time at this point may not happen.
    *****
    That’s assuming that Charlotte’s death on the island is on the true course of events. Sure, she’ll die eventually..everyone will..but is she meant to die so soon?

    All I’m saying is that this is a possibility and a probable explanation for why its the O815’ers ‘destiny’ to be on the island.[/quote]

    So the competing theories are “what happens happened” (predetermination) or not predetermination.

    The reason I assume these events to be the true course is because these events are what the TV show reveals to us. Once the show reveals something to us I take it as an event that has happened. The next step for my understanding of “what happened happened,” is that there is nothing anyone can do to prevent said event. (I guess this applies to finalities).

    I believe your position is that things can change and are not predetermined. So if you mean by Charlotte not dying so soon, that something can change or “course correct to the right timeline” to allow her to live to 80 and die on the island then her death in 2008 actually did not happen.

    By saying that someone may have been messing with things “earlier” and now the Losties are fixing things however slightly, and these fixes result in a slight change in course, implies that someone else could come back after the Losties do their thing, and slightly change the course by altering something else. Then someone else could come and change that altered course, and so on and so on.

    For purposes of this show I lean toward the predetermined course, but I agree that what you are saying is possible just not a “what happened happened.”

  507. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="319054"]http://z.about.com/d/ancienthistory/1/0/M/J/RamsesII.jpg

    Pretty strong resemblance. I am betting on the statue being male for sure.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Where are the pointy ears?

  508. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="319035"][quote comment="319022"]Ok everyone, it’s time, once again, for one of my far reaching theories…..

    I’ve always wondered why Richard isn’t just always the leader of the Others. Why have Ben, or Widmore, or Locke as the leader when Richard Alpert is always there anway? Then I started to really contemplate the reason for the eyeliner… R.A. is Ra, the ancient egyptian sun god. Do you think this guy has been alive for only 300 years, or more like 3000+?[/quote]

    I think that might be possible.

    I am more leaning toward either a pre-egyptian society, or an unknown society, not necessarily a known civilization though. My bet would be on something more along the lines of Atlantis/ Mu/ Lemuria/ …[/quote]
    ________________________________
    I also found it interesting that R.A. would ask James, “…what are you?”, and not “who are you”, as if R.A. is fully aware of entities other than humans.

  509. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="319071"][quote comment="319054"]http://z.about.com/d/ancienthistory/1/0/M/J/RamsesII.jpg

    Pretty strong resemblance. I am betting on the statue being male for sure.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Where are the pointy ears?[/quote]
    —————

    I was going with the posture and the attire. But if you look here

    you can see a pointy part.

    My point was more that as Halliwax said, the statue follows the statues posture and clothing worn by males, not females. I don’t mean that it is a statue of Ramses II. :-) Maybe Richard is a “lost” pharao :-)

  510. jaime says:

    Do you think this convo has anything to do with the “undiscovered territory” on the BDM?

    [The men sit down on a bench.]

    SAWYER: Any luck?

    JIN: We finished grid 1-3-3 today. No sign of our people. No one.

    SAWYER: Well, 1-3-4 then.

    JIN: How long do we look, James?

    SAWYER: As long as it takes.

  511. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment="318546"][quote comment="318538"]

    Um, NikkiV? The ankh has been posted about more than a dozen times. Anubis, more than fifteen times. Add in Osiris and Sekhmet and it is up in the twenties.

    [/quote]

    Thanks..I know. I usually do a “find” but I was so glad to find out something. I had obviously seen all of the Anubis posts, but had not seen anything about the ankh.

    In any case..I will search much more dilligently next time. Or just keep my comments to myself as it seems there are usually about 5 posts previous to mine that state the same thing. Oh well..

  512. shellonius funk says:

    duke…i’m already straying from the thomas idea, but for the record, claire’s bday is October 27, 1982.

  513. BaileyLovesLost says:

    Who’s to say that the Ajiran flight landed on the island in 2008? It very well could have landed in 1977 and Sawyer and crew could have flashed to 1977 (not 2008) and the water bottle would have still looked new in 77 if that is when then Ajiran passengers are.
    I don’t see how the Ajiran passengers are in 2008/present day and Kate, Jack and Hurley are in 1977….. wouuldn’t that mean the island is existing in two different places? I think Ben could very well be able to be in 1977 when his younger self was because during one of the flashes Locke and Sawyer were near the places on the island when Claire was giving birth and the light was on in the hatch. Does that make sense?

  514. silentlucidity says:

    Check this out about the statue

  515. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319078"]I don’t see how the Ajiran passengers are in 2008/present day and Kate, Jack and Hurley are in 1977….. wouuldn’t that mean the island is existing in two different places? [/quote]
    +++++++++++
    I don’t think so, the island is only in one place. PEOPLE are in different times on the island where ever it is.

    Jack et al, flashed to out of the plane into 1977 and on the island…and I THINK that Locke et al, landed on the island in present day.

  516. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="319061"][quote comment="319052"]
    First: no well (the first no well, the angels did sing) = 4TS time

    HTH
    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++
    PJ, I think you’ve lost it. Time for a LAA meeting.

  517. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319059"][quote comment="318943"][quote comment="318883"]
    I agree with Faraday’s “what happened, happened” theory. However, I think that someone, may be from the Dharma initiative or before that (could be Widmore, could be the ancient Egyptians) did some time traveling of their own that changed the course of events temporarily. …Both Ben and Widmore believe that the survivors have to be back on the island for the course correction to happen, but may be they have different ideas of what the correct course is.[/quote]

    So you are saying that the O815 crash WAS a course correction? I think I can buy into that. Clearly SOME (if not all) of the O815ers were PUT on that plane. I am going to mull that over a bit.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ********************
    Yes! Thats exactly what I’m saying!! I don’t understand why it would be their ‘destiny’ to crash onto the island otherwise.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think you guys are on to something. I also think that fits in with my earlier theory that Jack flashed after 816 and didn’t crash due to a course correction type purpose (an explanation for why he woke up in the jungle in the same manner as after the 315 flash/crash).

    For those of you claiming that the purge will happen because it happened or any other event for that matter, I think you are making assumptions. We don’t really know what happened. We know what we have been shown in the order we have been shown it, and we assume that it is what should have happened. The point being made here is that 816 crashed because of a course correction. In other words it didn’t happen that way originally and we don’t yet know what is and isn’t suppose to happen. The writers have said that there will not be any time paradoxes. This does not mean that events can’t change, this means that dualities can not occur. You can’t be alive before you were born and kill your mother and therefor never be born in the first place. Events changing, or course correcting, to preserve continuities and prevent these types of paradoxes are not only possible but necessary as well.

    Moving on…

    In the show ‘enter 77′, Mikhail says that he came to the island 11 years ago and in ‘par avion’ he claims that he was recruited by someone but he doesn’t finish the sentence because they spot the sonic fence. This would obviously be post purge and would leave the island under the control of Ben and ‘the others’, so my question is who recruited him and why? I believe there is more to that story line. In ‘par avion’ Mikhail also says that Kate was not on the list (the list from his great leader, not Ben, but Jacob). Mikhail also says that he has a fleeting memory of John Locke but that he must be mistaken because the John he knew….(he never finishes that sentence). Could these references be pertaining to some of the reasons for these course corrections and if so how does all this relate to the turning of the wheel and all the flashes starting and stopping?

  518. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319086"][quote comment="319061"][quote comment="319052"]
    First: no well (the first no well, the angels did sing) = 4TS time

    HTH
    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++
    PJ, I think you’ve lost it. Time for a LAA meeting.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Belly laughing…but agree with PJ assessment.

  519. Rita says:

    [quote comment="319079"]Check this out about the statue


    _________________________________
    Pretty compelling! Thanks for sharing – this would also “fit” with the fertility focus of Dharma and later the Others.

  520. Flyboy says:

    In my previous post I forget to mention…

    If Mikhail got to the island 11 years ago and he has a fleeting memory of John Locke, than where and when is that memory from? Something is not adding up…

  521. wally p says:

    How about this… Jacobs cabin always moves as the flashes moved while the wheel was spinning… if you are in the cabin, like Jacob (or Christian etc.) you follow the order of the flashes, even when the island isn’t moving through times… therefore Jacob is always on the move, which is how he knows so much…; and why the cabin is not always visable…

    …This would also make it possible for Jacob to be Horace and Amys son… Richard could have met him ten thousand years ago for all we know, if it was SUPPOSED to happen

  522. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319090"]In my previous post I forget to mention…

    If Mikhail got to the island 11 years ago and he has a fleeting memory of John Locke, than where and when is that memory from? Something is not adding up…[/quote]
    His file, perhaps? Also, it’s 815 and 316, not 816 and 315, it’s confusing me when I read it.:)

  523. jaime says:

    [quote comment="319075"]Do you think this convo has anything to do with the “undiscovered territory” on the BDM?

    [The men sit down on a bench.]

    SAWYER: Any luck?

    JIN: We finished grid 1-3-3 today. No sign of our people. No one.

    SAWYER: Well, 1-3-4 then.

    JIN: How long do we look, James?

    SAWYER: As long as it takes.[/quote]
    ******************************************

    This was taken from their conversation in Lafleur
    I’m wondering if the quadrants pertain at all to the Blast Door Map

  524. Rita says:

    [quote comment="319093"][quote comment="319075"]Do you think this convo has anything to do with the “undiscovered territory” on the BDM?

    [The men sit down on a bench.]

    SAWYER: Any luck?

    JIN: We finished grid 1-3-3 today. No sign of our people. No one.

    SAWYER: Well, 1-3-4 then.

    JIN: How long do we look, James?

    SAWYER: As long as it takes.[/quote]
    ******************************************

    This was taken from their conversation in Lafleur
    I’m wondering if the quadrants pertain at all to the Blast Door Map[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I assume they are looking for Locke and the O6 to return. I’m wondering though, after 3 years of actively searching the island, that they haven’t yet run into Rose and Bernard, or any other surviving 815ers. Are they flashed into a different time?

  525. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="319089"][quote comment="319079"]Check this out about the statue


    _________________________________
    Pretty compelling! Thanks for sharing – this would also “fit” with the fertility focus of Dharma and later the Others.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    This is still a guess. The Egyptian goddess Taweret also has 4 toes and a hippo head. She is the Egyptian goddess of fertility and birth. Hmmmmm. That fits! Plus it explains the pointy ears that are not long enough to be a jackal head (and definitely not human head like). I’m going with hippo head or lion head. How else do you explain the ears???????

  526. RGS says:

    [quote comment="319085"][quote comment="319078"]I don’t see how the Ajiran passengers are in 2008/present day and Kate, Jack and Hurley are in 1977….. wouuldn’t that mean the island is existing in two different places? [/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Jack et al, flashed to out of the plane into 1977 and on the island…and I THINK that Locke et al, landed on the island in present day.[/quote]

    Also if the plane tried to land on the makeshift runway, it would be post-purge. If the Hydra is abandoned, contains historical data/artifacts, it would be after 1977. If the plane crashed in 1977, wouldn’t there be a good chance that the DI would see/and or hear it, detect it? This is picky, but I’m not sure they were bottling water in plastic containers in ’77. All in all I have the chances of the plane crashing in ’77 at less than 1%. JMO.

  527. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319094"]
    I assume they are looking for Locke and the O6 to return. I’m wondering though, after 3 years of actively searching the island, that they haven’t yet run into Rose and Bernard, or any other surviving 815ers. Are they flashed into a different time?[/quote]
    Great question. I have no idea ( Adam and Eve)?

  528. sector7 says:

    Taweret is on the left. Flat crown on top. Holding an ankh in each hand. Pointy ears…

  529. Laurie says:

    [quote comment="318499"]Has there been any talk about the Audrey Niffenegger book, “The Time Travelers Wife”? Could someone direct me to the thread if it has? I read this book a few years ago and can’t get the similarities out of my head about time travel and “causual loops or paradoxes”. Much appreciated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Traveler%27s_Wife%5B/quote%5D

    ***************************
    Yes! I mentioned it a few episodes back. I definitely think this is the theory of time travel that’s being used here. With the exception of Desmond.

  530. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="319093"][quote comment="319075"]Do you think this convo has anything to do with the “undiscovered territory” on the BDM?

    [The men sit down on a bench.]

    SAWYER: Any luck?

    JIN: We finished grid 1-3-3 today. No sign of our people. No one.

    SAWYER: Well, 1-3-4 then.

    JIN: How long do we look, James?

    SAWYER: As long as it takes.
    ******************************************

    This was taken from their conversation in Lafleur
    I’m wondering if the quadrants pertain at all to the Blast Door Map[/quote]
    ******************************************
    This may be important and it hasn’t been talked about much here. What/who are they searching for?

    My money is on Rose/Bernard/rest of tailies.

    By the way, we saw Daniel in 1974…without re-watching, did we see him in 1977?

  531. donyab says:

    [quote comment="318688"]i’m leaning more and more towards the baby being thomas, aaron’s dad….thanks to whomever mentioned it on here!

    i feel that way because richard’s peeps wanted amy; they had the bag on her head and were gonna take her. they didn’t care about paul.
    while this was 3 years before the baby’s birth, i think they knew there was something special about her.[/quote]

    I believe Richard and the Others didn’t really want Amy, they wanted Amy’s baby. They had to kill Paul to get Amy. Remember the Others kidnapped Alex from Danielle, they took the children from the original crash and they stole Walt off the boat. For some reason they need children.

    I agree w/359, I think Desmond beat up Ben. I believe Ben went to try and kill Penny to fulfill his promise to Widmore and Desmond beat him up. Remember Desmond was in town to find Eloise too. They came via Penny’s boat, which was at the dock which is where Ben was when he called Jack to tell him that plans have changed and Jack has to pick up Locke’s body.

    As for Alpert taking Paul’s body, resurrection is a hidden theme, so it could be that Paul’s coming back as an Other!

    There’s a great time line on Lostpedia at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
    that helps answer a lot of questions.

  532. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319094"]
    I assume they are looking for Locke and the O6 to return. I’m wondering though, after 3 years of actively searching the island, that they haven’t yet run into Rose and Bernard, or any other surviving 815ers. Are they flashed into a different time?[/quote]

    I think we just haven’t SEEN Rose and Bernard (and Vincent) in 1977. I imagine that in 1974, they found them “the crew” of the salvage vessel. I think those smaller plot points will be filled in, in time.

    : ) P

  533. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319098"]Taweret is on the left. Flat crown on top. Holding an ankh in each hand. Pointy ears…

    http://www.aegyptologie.com/forum/attachments/taweret.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    And four toes… very compelling.

    : ) P

  534. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="319102"]
    This may be important and it hasn’t been talked about much here. What/who are they searching for?

    My money is on Rose/Bernard/rest of tailies.

    By the way, we saw Daniel in 1974…without re-watching, did we see him in 1977?[/quote]
    Sawyer said earlier in the episode that he was waiting for Locke to bring back, Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc, so I think that’s who he’s hoping to find.

    We didn’t see Daniel in 1977 in this episode. But my guess is that the opening scene of this season, where we saw Daniel in the Orchid Station, took some place well after 1974.

  535. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319102"]This may be important and it hasn’t been talked about much here. What/who are they searching for?

    My money is on Rose/Bernard/rest of tailies.

    By the way, we saw Daniel in 1974…without
    re-watching, did we see him in 1977?[/quote]

    a. agreed, see post 536

    b. who is the “rest of the” tailies? As far as I know, Bernard is the only tailie left. Right?

    c. We did not see Daniel in 1977 in LaFleur. There is speculation that we saw him in 1977 in the opening scenes of Because You Left.

    : ) P

  536. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319103"]I believe Richard and the Others didn’t really want Amy, they wanted Amy’s baby. They had to kill Paul to get Amy. Remember the Others kidnapped Alex from Danielle, they took the children from the original crash and they stole Walt off the boat. For some reason they need children.
    [/quote]

    Well, okay. Except that Amy, as far as we know, wasn’t pregnant in 1974 when she and Paul were having the picnic. She was pregnant in 1977, presumably with Horace’s baby.

    : ) P

  537. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="319103"]
    I believe Richard and the Others didn’t really want Amy, they wanted Amy’s baby. They had to kill Paul to get Amy. Remember the Others kidnapped Alex from Danielle, they took the children from the original crash and they stole Walt off the boat. For some reason they need children.
    [/quote]

    After watching the show, I had thought the same thing. But then I remembered that Amy wasn’t pregnant in that scene where the Others were trying to kidnap her. However, it’s possible they wanted to take her, in the hopes that she could become pregnant.

  538. Toeknee says:

    PJ you beat me to it!

  539. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319106"]c. We did not see Daniel in 1977 in LaFleur. There is speculation that we saw him in 1977 in the opening scenes of Because You Left.[/quote]

    LOL. GMTA, Toeknee.

    : ) P

  540. PJSander says:

    LOL.

  541. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”319096″
    Also if the plane tried to land on the makeshift runway, it would be post-purge. If the Hydra is abandoned, contains historical data/artifacts, it would be after 1977. If the plane crashed in 1977, wouldn’t there be a good chance that the DI would see/and or hear it, detect it? This is picky, but I’m not sure they were bottling water in plastic containers in ’77. All in all I have the chances of the plane crashing in ’77 at less than 1%. JMO.[/quote]
    It doesn’t matter whether or not plastic water bottles were used in 1977. The thinking is that the plane took off in 2008, with water bottles on board, and landed in 1977 (i.e., time-travelled).

    But, I don’t think they landed in 1977, because as you said, the Hydra station seemed to be abandoned. And Phil and Jerry made a joke about the polar bears escaping from their cages which implies the Hydra station was in use in 1977.

  542. jaime says:

    [quote comment="319106"][quote comment="319102"]
    This may be important and it hasn’t been talked about much here. What/who are they searching for?

    My money is on Rose/Bernard/rest of tailies.

    By the way, we saw Daniel in 1974…without re-watching, did we see him in 1977?[/quote]
    Sawyer said earlier in the episode that he was waiting for Locke to bring back, Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc, so I think that’s who he’s hoping to find.

    We didn’t see Daniel in 1977 in this episode. But my guess is that the opening scene of this season, where we saw Daniel in the Orchid Station, took some place well after 1974.[/quote]
    *******************************************

    In 1974 when Miles, Juliet, Daniel etc were chilling outside Daniel sees who he believes is Charlotte. The alarm goes off and everyone scrambles to find shelter. Did Daniel go into the same house as Miles, Juliet, and Sawyer? Can anyone recall the very LAST time we saw Daniel.

  543. Toeknee says:

    Boy I’m not having a good day with this blog. screwed up the quoting there

    RGS – my comment 545 is in response to your comment 530

  544. jaime says:

    [quote comment="318996"][quote comment="318834"][quote comment="318813"][quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?[/quote]
    ***************************************************

    This has been one of my theories as well in past threads. I believe that its possible the remnants of the ancient civilization are below the barracks and Dharma stations. They were built right over top.
    I had never thought of the tunnels though as a way for people to travel about, that’s a great theory that would explain Richards comment about getting past the security fence.[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    i was checking out the BDM and came across this image

    http://www.lost4815162342.com/blastmap/

    You can see the tunnels that go from station to station. Where are the barracks on this map?

  545. jaime says:

    [quote comment="319123"][quote comment="318996"][quote comment="318834"][quote comment="318813"][quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?[/quote]
    ***************************************************

    This has been one of my theories as well in past threads. I believe that its possible the remnants of the ancient civilization are below the barracks and Dharma stations. They were built right over top.
    I had never thought of the tunnels though as a way for people to travel about, that’s a great theory that would explain Richards comment about getting past the security fence.[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    i was checking out the BDM and came across this image

    http://www.lost4815162342.com/blastmap/

    You can see the tunnels that go from station to station. Where are the barracks on this map?[/quote]
    *****************************************************

    And according to this (lostpedia keep in mind) there are four passages leading from the barracks to areas beyond the sonic barrier. Possible how Richard go to the barracks

  546. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="319110"][quote comment="319103"]
    I believe Richard and the Others didn’t really want Amy, they wanted Amy’s baby. They had to kill Paul to get Amy. Remember the Others kidnapped Alex from Danielle, they took the children from the original crash and they stole Walt off the boat. For some reason they need children.
    [/quote]

    After watching the show, I had thought the same thing. But then I remembered that Amy wasn’t pregnant in that scene where the Others were trying to kidnap her. However, it’s possible they wanted to take her, in the hopes that she could become pregnant.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    If you listen carefully to the scene when the others kill Poul and put the bag over Amy you can hear her say something like “I’m Sorry, we didn’t know” “We were just having a picnic.” I don’t think they set out to capture Amy, she and Paul just crossed the invisible line, therefore breaking the truce.

  547. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="319090"]In my previous post I forget to mention…

    If Mikhail got to the island 11 years ago and he has a fleeting memory of John Locke, than where and when is that memory from? Something is not adding up…[/quote]
    Perhaps he knew Locke off island?

  548. lola says:

    ok, read everything, so…
    I don’t think the baby is Jacob, I get the feeling that Jacob has always been around.

    I would bet money that it WAS Sun and Lapidus that took off in the boat, the co-pilot theory is a stretch, BUT I have definitely been wrong in my trying to figure out WTF has been going on before. In fact I’ve only had 1 correct prediction and that was that Miles had been on the island before, and we don’t even know that for sure, Faraday only asked him “are u sure about that?” to MIles stating he had only been there 3 weeks.

    I’m not getting people questioning the whole “it’s only been 3 years” statement. I think it was just foreshadowing of Sawyer seeing Kate again. I don’t think Horace was referencing Olivia at all-just simply that he found Paul’s ankh that Amy was “hiding” in her drawer for 3 years.

    I think Richard pretty much is able to do whatever he wants. I also think he’s kinda cute.

    I’d be interested in hearing everyone’s opinion on who should be trusted more: Widmore or Ben? Neither? What does everyone think? I sort of like Ben sometimes…

    And FINALLY once again, I’m sorry people but Kate and Sawyer all the way!!!!!!!! Some don’t think Kate is “worthy”, but who do you think started Sawyer on his about face attitude? I’m not really sure why she ever left those dimples in the first place.

  549. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319092"][quote comment="319090"]In my previous post I forget to mention…

    If Mikhail got to the island 11 years ago and he has a fleeting memory of John Locke, than where and when is that memory from? Something is not adding up…[/quote]
    His file, perhaps? Also, it’s 815 and 316, not 816 and 315, it’s confusing me when I read it.:)[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++

    Mikhail new all the 411 on Kate, Sayid, and John from their files for sure, but he also said that comment about John specifically. If you re-watch the episode you will understand what I am talking about. He is alluding to the fact that he did not know Kate and Sayid but that he did remember John Locke from the past and that John was different at that moment than the John he remembered.

    In regards to Circus Mom’s post 552.. it’s certainly possible but something tells me that it is from the island in the past. Either…
    a. Mikhail is lying and he has been on the island
    previous to 11 years or has flashed also and been
    around Locke in 1954.
    or

    b. We haven’t seen all the times that Locke has been
    on the island yet. Maybe 316 crashes somewhere
    between present time and 11 years ago when Mikhail
    got to the island and that is when they met.
    However, I thought Mikhail died in the looking
    glass with the grenade/ charlie scene so that
    creates several other issues.

    In regards to post 526… my apologies I intermix the flight numbers alot…. maybe the it’s the flashes and the nosebleeds, lol.

  550. MysticEye says:

    [quote comment="319078"]Who’s to say that the Ajiran flight landed on the island in 2008? It very well could have landed in 1977 and Sawyer and crew could have flashed to 1977 (not 2008) and the water bottle would have still looked new in 77 if that is when then Ajiran passengers are.
    I don’t see how the Ajiran passengers are in 2008/present day and Kate, Jack and Hurley are in 1977….. wouuldn’t that mean the island is existing in two different places? I think Ben could very well be able to be in 1977 when his younger self was because during one of the flashes Locke and Sawyer were near the places on the island when Claire was giving birth and the light was on in the hatch. Does that make sense?[/quote] Wow! Did you do all these posts at work? You must have a really nice boss!

  551. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319044"][quote comment="318987"]And while were on the subject of why 316 losties didnt come down together , Because the first flight,815 crashed in two pieces ot opposite sides of the island.[/quote]

    Okay, but A316 is definitely in ONE piece, so I am not sure that one relates to the other at all.

    : ) P[/quote]
    /////////////////////////
    because the oa6 are split into two groups arnt they?kate, hurley, jack……sun,frank,sayid and lock?

  552. Christie says:

    People have been commenting about Richard’s “nice clothes” vs. his shaggy clothes. I can’t help but think about last week’s episode when the new woman was asking Locke why he was dressed up so nice. He explained that he guessed that was what they were going to bury him in. I thought this conversation was odd because he wasn’t really dressed in an exceptional way for an airplane ride. It’s not like he was in a tuxedo or something. Seems curious to me.

    As far as the the dead bodies, Alex wasn’t buried either. Maybe Ben just didn’t have time, but it always seemed significant to me.

    Also, it seems odd to me that Horace brought Ben to the island if he was destined to be the leader of the Others. I am beginning to wonder if Richard manipulated Ben, Widmore, and Locke into thinking they are these special leaders when they are really just his puppets. Not sure about that – just a thought.

    Final thought – we met a Rosie and a Paul this week. So now we have Rose and Rosie, Daniel and Danielle, Charles and Charlie, John and Jack, Paul and Paulo. Why so many people with similar names?

  553. shells says:

    Why were Ben and the Others dressed like medieval sersfs when they were holding Walt captive?

  554. shells says:

    [quote comment="319197"]People have been commenting about Richard’s “nice clothes” vs. his shaggy clothes. I can’t help but think about last week’s episode when the new woman was asking Locke why he was dressed up so nice. He explained that he guessed that was what they were going to bury him in. I thought this conversation was odd because he wasn’t really dressed in an exceptional way for an airplane ride. It’s not like he was in a tuxedo or something. Seems curious to me.

    As far as the the dead bodies, Alex wasn’t buried either. Maybe Ben just didn’t have time, but it always seemed significant to me.

    Also, it seems odd to me that Horace brought Ben to the island if he was destined to be the leader of the Others. I am beginning to wonder if Richard manipulated Ben, Widmore, and Locke into thinking they are these special leaders when they are really just his puppets. Not sure about that – just a thought.

    Final thought – we met a Rosie and a Paul this week. So now we have Rose and Rosie, Daniel and Danielle, Charles and Charlie, John and Jack, Paul and Paulo. Why so many people with similar names?[/quote]

    ****
    Perhaps there are parallel dimensions at play.

  555. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319201"]Why were Ben and the Others dressed like medieval sersfs when they were holding Walt captive?[/quote]

    They were in costume and Walt told Michael that. Later, Kate found some of the costumes. Don’t know WHY, but dressing like that was a choice, not a necessity.

    : ) P

  556. duke says:

    [quote comment="318890"]I was re-reading some previous posts and found that Duke’s comment, #24, in the 316 thread pretty much says the same thing I’m trying to get across. But I dont think it was discussed that much.[/quote]
    _______________________
    THANKS!!!!!!! My point, if I remember correctly, is course correction=change. It just uses a different phrasing to say it. We all assume that what we have seen so far is the way it is suppossed to happen but we have been quite possibly misled and will now see events changed err course corrected.

  557. RGS says:

    [quote comment="319117"]Boy I’m not having a good day with this blog. screwed up the quoting there

    RGS – my comment 545 is in response to your comment 530[/quote]

    Oh yeah, good catch.

  558. duke says:

    [quote comment="318893"][quote comment="318890"]I was re-reading some previous posts and found that Duke’s comment, #24, in the 316 thread pretty much says the same thing I’m trying to get across. But I dont think it was discussed that much.[/quote]
    Hi Mrs. duke.:)[/quote]
    ______________________
    Now that is funny!!!!!!!! I swear I DO NOT even know who this person is but I do know that they appear to be very intelligent LOL.

  559. RGS says:

    [quote comment="319148"] ok, read everything, so…

    I’d be interested in hearing everyone’s opinion on who should be trusted more: Widmore or Ben? Neither? What does everyone think? I sort of like Ben sometimes…[/quote]

    I’m officially an unofficial spokesman for Team Widmore. Been thinking this for awhile now.

  560. Rita says:

    [quote comment="319102"][quote comment="319093"][quote comment="319075"]
    [/quote]
    This may be important and it hasn’t been talked about much here. What/who are they searching for?

    My money is on Rose/Bernard/rest of tailies.

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Interesting – Why do you think it was Rose and Bernard that they are searching for? I’m still wondering why they never found them, but I do believe they are actually searching for Locke, and the O6 that he went to bring back. He knows that Locke was successful in some sense, because the flashes/nosebleeds/headaches have stopped, and has been waiting for him to return. He mentions Locke a few times, saying they have to wait for them. I looked for an applicable quote but I couldn’t find a transcript that is up yet for the episode, but I believe he mentioned them to Juliet while convincing her to stay for 2 more weeks, on the sub dock. Anyone with a better memory, or a transcript site that is up?

  561. duke says:

    [quote comment="318957"][quote comment="318899"]Well I think the Ajira flight definitely landed in 2008 (present time), because recall the earlier episode where Sawyer finds the Ajira water bottle on the beach. And at that time, Sawyer’s group had flashed sometime into the “present.” And it was clear that the water bottle was new, not like it had been there for years or even months.[/quote]

    I agree that the water bottle is a clue to the fact that an Ajira flight lands sometime after January 2008.

    However, I disagree that it is “new” as seen here:

    http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=122742&fullsize=1

    : ) P[/quote]
    _____________________________
    It appears fairly new to me. The paper label is still intact. If you can find bottles that 815 people used the labels are worn or torn off and they just have a clear bottle. I do not think the label would last very long in those conditions.

  562. duke says:

    [quote comment="319077"]duke…i’m already straying from the thomas idea, but for the record, claire’s bday is October 27, 1982.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    So she was 22 years old at on 815. Thomas was not five to six years older than her. I read somewhere else someone thinks it may be Casaer but I DO NOT think this because he seemed Arab in decent and assuming Horace is the father then that baby is definately not Arab. LOL I am trying come up with a theory on who it is but haven’t gotten anything I feel comfortable guessing at at this time.

  563. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319104"][quote comment="319094"]
    I assume they are looking for Locke and the O6 to return. I’m wondering though, after 3 years of actively searching the island, that they haven’t yet run into Rose and Bernard, or any other surviving 815ers. Are they flashed into a different time?[/quote]

    I think we just haven’t SEEN Rose and Bernard (and Vincent) in 1977. I imagine that in 1974, they found them “the crew” of the salvage vessel. I think those smaller plot points will be filled in, in time.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Well D&C did say that Adam and Eve will be proof that they weren’t making this story up as they go. Someone else mentioned earlier that maybe they are hiding in the caves. Maybe they end up dying there and the Losties found their bones? Timeline issues?

  564. duke says:

    [quote comment="319131"][quote comment="319090"]In my previous post I forget to mention…

    If Mikhail got to the island 11 years ago and he has a fleeting memory of John Locke, than where and when is that memory from? Something is not adding up…[/quote]
    Perhaps he knew Locke off island?[/quote]
    _________________________
    That is what I took from Patchy’s conversation. He was going to say, in my opinion, that the JOhn Locke he knew was in a wheelchair.

  565. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319233"][quote comment="319131"][quote comment="319090"]In my previous post I forget to mention…

    If Mikhail got to the island 11 years ago and he has a fleeting memory of John Locke, than where and when is that memory from? Something is not adding up…[/quote]
    Perhaps he knew Locke off island?[/quote]
    _________________________
    That is what I took from Patchy’s conversation. He was going to say, in my opinion, that the JOhn Locke he knew was in a wheelchair.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I took it as, since he was the communications officer to the outside world. He was ‘informed’ that Locke was in a wheel chair when assembling Locke’s ‘file’. Not that he actually knew him.

  566. duke says:

    [quote comment="319234"][quote comment="319233"][quote comment="319131"][quote comment="319090"]In my previous post I forget to mention…

    If Mikhail got to the island 11 years ago and he has a fleeting memory of John Locke, than where and when is that memory from? Something is not adding up…[/quote]
    Perhaps he knew Locke off island?[/quote]
    _________________________
    That is what I took from Patchy’s conversation. He was going to say, in my opinion, that the JOhn Locke he knew was in a wheelchair.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I took it as, since he was the communications officer to the outside world. He was ‘informed’ that Locke was in a wheel chair when assembling Locke’s ‘file’. Not that he actually knew him.[/quote]
    _________________________________________
    Either way. My point was that he had knowledge of John Locke being in a wheelchair as to what the rest of the conversation would have been had he finished his comment.

  567. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319236"]_________________________________________
    Either way. My point was that he had knowledge of John Locke being in a wheelchair as to what the rest of the conversation would have been had he finished his comment.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yes, but there are implications if he actually knew him, as opposed to knowing about him.

  568. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319237"][quote comment="319236"]_________________________________________
    Either way. My point was that he had knowledge of John Locke being in a wheelchair as to what the rest of the conversation would have been had he finished his comment.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yes, but there are implications if he actually knew him, as opposed to knowing about him.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++

    Agreed.

    I think he knew him… rather than knowing about him.
    We shall see.

    What about the comment he made about Kate not being on
    Jacob’s list?

  569. duke says:

    [quote comment="319237"][quote comment="319236"]_________________________________________
    Either way. My point was that he had knowledge of John Locke being in a wheelchair as to what the rest of the conversation would have been had he finished his comment.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yes, but there are implications if he actually knew him, as opposed to knowing about him.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Hammer you are right. I was just speculating what he may have said next regardless of if he actually knew him or not as I do not believe that he did/does.

  570. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319238"][quote comment="319237"][quote comment="319236"]_________________________________________
    Either way. My point was that he had knowledge of John Locke being in a wheelchair as to what the rest of the conversation would have been had he finished his comment.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yes, but there are implications if he actually knew him, as opposed to knowing about him.[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++

    Agreed.

    I think he knew him… rather than knowing about him.
    We shall see.

    What about the comment he made about Kate not being on
    Jacob’s list?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    No clue what the significance of Jacob’s list is yet:

    In “I Do”, Danny Pickett mentioned that “Shephard wasn’t even on Jacob’s list”.

    In “Par Avion”, Mikhail states that Kate is not on the list because she is “flawed”; Sayid is not on the list because he is “weak and frightened”; and Locke is not on the list because he is angry.

    Later, in “The Other Woman”, Ben doesn’t specifically say he is talking about Jacob’s list, but it is implied when he says “who are we to argue with who is on the list?” to Juliet in response to her concerns about taking Zach and Emma from the tail-section survivors.

  571. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319239"][quote comment="319237"][quote comment="319236"]_________________________________________
    Either way. My point was that he had knowledge of John Locke being in a wheelchair as to what the rest of the conversation would have been had he finished his comment.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yes, but there are implications if he actually knew him, as opposed to knowing about him.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Hammer you are right. I was just speculating what he may have said next regardless of if he actually knew him or not as I do not believe that he did/does.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Right on.

    BTW the info I posted in 575 was from LP.

  572. Lostman says:

    Flyboy, I agree with duke and Hammer. I don’t think Mikhail knew any more about Locke than what was in his file. He said something like this:
    “I remembered a John Locke but it must’ve been a different John Locke because the one I knew was para…”
    but then he gets cut off by something.

    I’m pretty sure he was going to say paralyzed because his file would have obviously said that Locke was in a wheelchair.

    Doubt that there is more to it than that but no one knows for sure.

  573. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319150"] If you re-watch the episode you will understand what I am talking about. [/quote]

    No thanks! I have seen that one at least 8 times. I get the jist (or is it gist ) and do not agree with yours.:) Short and Sweet.

    [quote comment="319225"]but I do know that they appear to be very intelligent LOL.[/quote]

    Completely agree duke. Newbie is. Glad you got the joke:)

  574. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319106"]
    We didn’t see Daniel in 1977 in this episode. But my guess is that the opening scene of this season, where we saw Daniel in the Orchid Station, took some place well after 1974.[/quote]
    Right, because “the well” in 1974, was a filled-in well that Sawyer tried to jump down to find Locke. The Orchid was built near the well, filled-in or not, the Orchid equals Dharma.

    [quote comment="319148"]ok,
    I’d be interested in hearing everyone’s opinion on who should be trusted more: Widmore or Ben? Neither? [/quote]
    IMO, it’s obviously neither. Both have MURDERED people at the drop of a hat. We can’t believe ANYTHING Ben has ever said, and I don’t suspect Widmore being any different. Not much fact from either.

  575. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319240"]
    No clue what the significance of Jacob’s list is yet:
    Locke is not on the list because he is angry.
    [/quote]
    Interesting from what we have been shown this year. He has resurrected himself, correct? Is that the right word? I am not too familiar with reincarnation, though. Maybe that is the proper term.

    IMO, If you can resurrect yourself ( or reincarnate ), you shoud be on the list, right?. UNLESS, you are the one making it.

  576. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319245"]Flyboy, I agree with duke and Hammer. I don’t think Mikhail knew any more about Locke than what was in his file. He said something like this:
    “I remembered a John Locke but it must’ve been a different John Locke because the one I knew was para…”
    but then he gets cut off by something.

    I’m pretty sure he was going to say paralyzed because his file would have obviously said that Locke was in a wheelchair.

    Doubt that there is more to it than that but no one knows for sure.[/quote]
    He actually said this, From S3E12:

    MIKHAIL: Of course I don’t know you, Sayid Jarrah. How could I? And you, Kate Austen, are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was paral—

    The question is, what is a “fleeting memory”? Does that mean they ACTUALLY met?

  577. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="319225"][quote comment="318893"][quote comment="318890"]I was re-reading some previous posts and found that Duke’s comment, #24, in the 316 thread pretty much says the same thing I’m trying to get across. But I dont think it was discussed that much.[/quote]
    Hi Mrs. duke.:)[/quote]
    ______________________
    Now that is funny!!!!!!!! I swear I DO NOT even know who this person is but I do know that they appear to be very intelligent LOL.[/quote]
    ****
    hahahaha!!! Hi back !
    May be you knew me another life brotha :)
    ok, that was cheesy.

  578. samin3269 says:

    for more details plz visit here me

    http://www.mastersmindtechnologies.com/smartbpojob

  579. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319251"][quote comment="319245"]Flyboy, I agree with duke and Hammer. I don’t think Mikhail knew any more about Locke than what was in his file. He said something like this:
    “I remembered a John Locke but it must’ve been a different John Locke because the one I knew was para…”
    but then he gets cut off by something.

    I’m pretty sure he was going to say paralyzed because his file would have obviously said that Locke was in a wheelchair.

    Doubt that there is more to it than that but no one knows for sure.[/quote]
    He actually said this, From S3E12:

    MIKHAIL: Of course I don’t know you, Sayid Jarrah. How could I? And you, Kate Austen, are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was paral—

    The question is, what is a “fleeting memory”? Does that mean they ACTUALLY met?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    A ha, I remember that now that you mention it. So then there may be implications. According to their bios so far, they likely wouldn’t have ‘known’ each other. But if Mikhail was on a recruiting/peruading mission like Abaddon……hmmmmmm.

  580. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319201"]Why were Ben and the Others dressed like medieval sersfs when they were holding Walt captive?[/quote]
    ///////////////////////
    the french men were also dressed like that when they came out from under the temple !

  581. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319251"]
    MIKHAIL: Of course I don’t know you, Sayid Jarrah. How could I? And you, Kate Austen, are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was paral—
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Okay, an excercise in futility. I decided to look at finishing Patchy’s word ‘para’ (I took off the l because I only heard p-a-r-a) outside the box of the obvious…paralyzed.

    paracme (noun) : a point beyond the highest or strongest

    parafied (adjective) : extreme fear

    Just for funzies. :)

  582. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319269"][quote comment="319201"]Why were Ben and the Others dressed like medieval sersfs when they were holding Walt captive?[/quote]
    ///////////////////////
    the french men were also dressed like that when they came out from under the temple ![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I disagree, their close were consistent with what folks would wear on research missions….prepared for rough conditions.

  583. Missy says:

    [quote comment="318996"][quote comment="318834"][quote comment="318813"][quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?[/quote]
    ***************************************************

    This has been one of my theories as well in past threads. I believe that its possible the remnants of the ancient civilization are below the barracks and Dharma stations. They were built right over top.
    I had never thought of the tunnels though as a way for people to travel about, that’s a great theory that would explain Richards comment about getting past the security fence.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    It would also provide and answer for the “they don’t leave footprints” concept we’ve heard a few times. I’ve been thinking alot about that lately wondering if the others and time travel – if they are flashing through time, there’d be a serious lack of footprints – but the tunnel thing is really growing on me.

  584. Lostman says:

    [quote comment="319270"][quote comment="319251"]
    MIKHAIL: Of course I don’t know you, Sayid Jarrah. How could I? And you, Kate Austen, are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was paral—
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Okay, an excercise in futility. I decided to look at finishing Patchy’s word ‘para’ (I took off the l because I only heard p-a-r-a) outside the box of the obvious…paralyzed.

    paracme (noun) : a point beyond the highest or strongest

    parafied (adjective) : extreme fear

    Just for funzies. :)[/quote]
    ___________________

    Could be parasitic- maybe that cut on his eye got infected :)

  585. Missy says:

    [quote comment="319220"][quote comment="318890"]I was re-reading some previous posts and found that Duke’s comment, #24, in the 316 thread pretty much says the same thing I’m trying to get across. But I dont think it was discussed that much.[/quote]
    _______________________
    THANKS!!!!!!! My point, if I remember correctly, is course correction=change. It just uses a different phrasing to say it. We all assume that what we have seen so far is the way it is suppossed to happen but we have been quite possibly misled and will now see events changed err course corrected.[/quote]
    _________________
    Could the oostumes be to throw off any time travelers so they would not know what era they are in – not sure why – but sounds like a reason for all the trouble of wearing fake clothes…

  586. katesFriend says:

    [quote]
    MIKHAIL: Of course I don’t know you, Sayid Jarrah. How could I? And you, Kate Austen, are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was paral—[/quote]

    I think we have to look at this statement in context though – I’m pretty sure (plz correct if wrong!) that, at that point, the other losties were not aware Locke was in a wheelchair prior to 815. And, the Mikhail’s words aren’t so much literal, as instead a way to let the losties know he’s got the 411 on them in a mocking, sarcastic way.

  587. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319273"][quote comment="318996"][quote comment="318834"][quote comment="318813"][quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?[/quote]
    ***************************************************

    This has been one of my theories as well in past threads. I believe that its possible the remnants of the ancient civilization are below the barracks and Dharma stations. They were built right over top.
    I had never thought of the tunnels though as a way for people to travel about, that’s a great theory that would explain Richards comment about getting past the security fence.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    It would also provide and answer for the “they don’t leave footprints” concept we’ve heard a few times. I’ve been thinking alot about that lately wondering if the others and time travel – if they are flashing through time, there’d be a serious lack of footprints – but the tunnel thing is really growing on me.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    I’m not saying that the tunnels theory is invalid. But, wouldn’t the DHARMA folks know about ‘holes’ in their campus grounds…or is their camp really big?

  588. Rita says:

    [quote comment="319297"][quote comment="319273"][quote comment="318996"][quote comment="318834"][quote comment="318813"][quote]… one of those time travel shows that tries to put the horse before the cart… [/quote]
    Odd. That is exactly were you want the horse – before the cart.
    – – – –
    My theory. Tunnels. Alpert gets into the Barracks because of tunnel access. The Well is filled in because it tapped into a tunnel. Ben had a tunnel to summon Smokey to chase off the mercenaries. Smokey tried to drag Locke, and did drag Montand, into a tunnel. We have seen various blueprints indicating extensive tunnel systems. Jughead may be in one. Harper Stanhope, there, then not there. Others, popping-up, in force, in the middle of nowhere to point rifles at the Losties when they first started really exploring the various stations.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    This makes a lot of sense DocH. Have you found anywhere a map of the tunnel systems?[/quote]
    ***************************************************

    This has been one of my theories as well in past threads. I believe that its possible the remnants of the ancient civilization are below the barracks and Dharma stations. They were built right over top.
    I had never thought of the tunnels though as a way for people to travel about, that’s a great theory that would explain Richards comment about getting past the security fence.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    It would also provide and answer for the “they don’t leave footprints” concept we’ve heard a few times. I’ve been thinking alot about that lately wondering if the others and time travel – if they are flashing through time, there’d be a serious lack of footprints – but the tunnel thing is really growing on me.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    I’m not saying that the tunnels theory is invalid. But, wouldn’t the DHARMA folks know about ‘holes’ in their campus grounds…or is their camp really big?[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I’ve wondered this too. Why, after actively searching the grounds for 3 years, haven’t Sawyer et al found the tunnel entrances, let alone the rest of the 815ers. Wouldn’t the tunnel entrances eventually be found by SOMEBODY??? Maybe Dharma DOES know, and is trying to find a way of exploiting them themselves. Ben eventually did (or so it seems), when he went into his secret closet and (possibly) went into the tunnel system to release smokey.

  589. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319297"]
    I’m not saying that the tunnels theory is invalid. But, wouldn’t the DHARMA folks know about ‘holes’ in their campus grounds…or is their camp really big?[/quote]

    We know there are SOME tunnels, just not how many and where they go. However, regarding the ‘holes’ you mentioned, it might be that the entryways to the tunnels are hidden like the “back” entrance to the hatch was.

    : ) P

  590. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319302"][quote comment="319297"]
    I’m not saying that the tunnels theory is invalid. But, wouldn’t the DHARMA folks know about ‘holes’ in their campus grounds…or is their camp really big?[/quote]

    We know there are SOME tunnels, just not how many and where they go. However, regarding the ‘holes’ you mentioned, it might be that the entryways to the tunnels are hidden like the “back” entrance to the hatch was.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    I meant the theory that, that is how Alpert got past the fences…not that they may not exist.

  591. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319301"]I’ve wondered this too. Why, after actively searching the grounds for 3 years, haven’t Sawyer et al found the tunnel entrances, let alone the rest of the 815ers.[/quote]

    I believe that they will have found B&R (see post 536). However, I am curious what other 815ers you are expecting? As far as I could tell, the rest of the survivors of O815 have perished.

    Which brings me to something I found interesting – of the principal characters in our story, we have more who were NOT on O815 than on:

    O815: Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Sayid, Locke, Sawyer

    not O815: Juliet, Ben, Miles, Daniel, Frank, Desmond, Penny, Widmore, Mrs. Hawking

    : ) P

  592. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319251"][quote comment="319245"]Flyboy, I agree with duke and Hammer. I don’t think Mikhail knew any more about Locke than what was in his file. He said something like this:
    “I remembered a John Locke but it must’ve been a different John Locke because the one I knew was para…”
    but then he gets cut off by something.

    I’m pretty sure he was going to say paralyzed because his file would have obviously said that Locke was in a wheelchair.

    Doubt that there is more to it than that but no one knows for sure.[/quote]
    He actually said this, From S3E12:

    MIKHAIL: Of course I don’t know you, Sayid Jarrah. How could I? And you, Kate Austen, are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was paral—

    The question is, what is a “fleeting memory”? Does that mean they ACTUALLY met?[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Thank you, I was about to post it as well. Anyways, I am used to getting shot down so I was debating keeping it to myself.

    I also think that we have not seen the exact date on the island when 816 crashed. Correct me if I am wrong, but I still think they could be somewhere before or after the real timeline off of the island. I know Mikhail’s comment of 11 years on island and Horrace’s comment of ‘I have been dead for 12 years’ point to real time being the same as island time. That is only true, however, if we know that the purge occurred in 1992 for sure. If we do not know that date for sure and we are guestimating it, than all bets are off.

    I think that when we find out when 315 crashed it might shed light on 816 as well.

  593. DocH says:

    [quote] …wouldn’t the DHARMA folks know about ‘holes’ in their campus grounds… or is their camp really big?[/quote]
    Seems like Dharma was ‘under construction’ for most of the 70’s, maybe well into the 80’s. The tunnels didn’t have to be completely connected under the barracks when Alpert walked in (’74)… they just needed to be far enough along to get under the sonic fence. Jughead may have been the catalyst to start tunnel digging, or to continue ancient tunneling.
    That may also explain the rare glimpse of the filthy ‘simple’ clothing – “thems muh diggin’ clothes.”

  594. Flyboy says:

    sorry I mixed up 815 and 316 again..

  595. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="319308"][quote] …wouldn’t the DHARMA folks know about ‘holes’ in their campus grounds… or is their camp really big?[/quote]
    Seems like Dharma was ‘under construction’ for most of the 70’s, maybe well into the 80’s. The tunnels didn’t have to be completely connected under the barracks when Alpert walked in (’74)… they just needed to be far enough along to get under the sonic fence. Jughead may have been the catalyst to start tunnel digging, or to continue ancient tunneling.
    That may also explain the rare glimpse of the filthy ‘simple’ clothing – “thems muh diggin’ clothes.”[/quote]

    I think Alpert just meant that the sonic fence could not keep them out. Not because of some tunnel, but because a simple sonic fence can’t really hurt someone like him- whatever he is.

  596. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319306"][quote comment="319301"]I’ve wondered this too. Why, after actively searching the grounds for 3 years, haven’t Sawyer et al found the tunnel entrances, let alone the rest of the 815ers.[/quote]

    I believe that they will have found B&R (see post 536). However, I am curious what other 815ers you are expecting? As far as I could tell, the rest of the survivors of O815 have perished.

    Which brings me to something I found interesting – of the principal characters in our story, we have more who were NOT on O815 than on:

    O815: Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Sayid, Locke, Sawyer

    not O815: Juliet, Ben, Miles, Daniel, Frank, Desmond, Penny, Widmore, Mrs. Hawking

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Hmmmm…I guess they are telling us the story is about the island and not the survivors? LOL

    When is spring? I must be coming down with cabin fever. ;)

  597. intolost says:

    Cool. Juliet fans unite! I’m glad to see Sawyer and Juliet together. Seems like a true loving relationship. Sawyer and Kate—only passion, then what? Hope Sawyer thinks about that as he’s reunited with Kate. Jules has truly become one of my favoites. She stepped aside for Kate and Jack. She probably would even step aside for Sawyer and Kate if she saw that coming. She saved the losties from the sonic fence. At least she thought. I think she’s had a good heart all along, just wound up manipulated by Ben for a while but came to her senses. Sawyer has really grown in character, too.

    blah, blah, blah….okay hope we do see what happened to the original native islanders and how dharma began. Also, I think whatever happened between the 50’s and 70’s is important. Time of Widmore’s rise?

    Alpert…who and or what is he?

  598. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319303"]
    I meant the theory that, that is how Alpert got past the fences…not that they may not exist.[/quote]
    I’m not sure why there has to be a theory on how Alpert got past the fences. All he needed was some earplugs, like Amy.

  599. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319308"][quote] …wouldn’t the DHARMA folks know about ‘holes’ in their campus grounds… or is their camp really big?[/quote]
    Seems like Dharma was ‘under construction’ for most of the 70’s, maybe well into the 80’s. The tunnels didn’t have to be completely connected under the barracks when Alpert walked in (’74)… they just needed to be far enough along to get under the sonic fence. Jughead may have been the catalyst to start tunnel digging, or to continue ancient tunneling.
    That may also explain the rare glimpse of the filthy ‘simple’ clothing – “thems muh diggin’ clothes.”[/quote]
    Good enough for me. :)

  600. DocH says:

    Remembering, of course, that we just saw Christian and Locke in, what appeared to be, a naturally formed underground tunnel (vs. man-made) that led to the wheel room.

  601. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319314"][quote comment="319303"]
    I meant the theory that, that is how Alpert got past the fences…not that they may not exist.[/quote]
    I’m not sure why there has to be a theory on how Alpert got past the fences. All he needed was some earplugs, like Amy.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Well…ears plugs AND the knowledge that the fence was on a low setting. Otherwise the DHARMA folk would have earplugs as standard issue and not need to get them out of the lock box.

  602. Rita says:

    [quote comment="319306"][quote comment="319301"]I’ve wondered this too. Why, after actively searching the grounds for 3 years, haven’t Sawyer et al found the tunnel entrances, let alone the rest of the 815ers.[/quote]

    I believe that they will have found B&R (see post 536). However, I am curious what other 815ers you are expecting? As far as I could tell, the rest of the survivors of O815 have perished.

    Which brings me to something I found interesting – of the principal characters in our story, we have more who were NOT on O815 than on:

    O815: Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Sayid, Locke, Sawyer

    not O815: Juliet, Ben, Miles, Daniel, Frank, Desmond, Penny, Widmore, Mrs. Hawking

    : ) P[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Yes, I read your post 536 but I’m not sure I agree with you – yet! I am also not sure that ALL the remaining 815ers (except for Rose and Bernard) are necessarily dead. I was pretty surprised when the flaming arrows came, how many of them were still around then! They may not have ALL died, we just don’t know.
    You are right, though, that it is interesting that the characters have shifted from Others vs 815ers, to a complete mix and match.

  603. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319307"]
    I also think that we have not seen the exact date on the island when 816 crashed. Correct me if I am wrong, but I still think they could be somewhere before or after the real timeline off of the island. [/quote]
    In the S2 Finale, Desmond shows Locke the prinout from pushing the numbers in the Pearl which confirms the date of the crash. IMO.

  604. Hammer says:

    This one has been bugging me. Were Sawyer’s comments to keep Juliette on the island the writers way of saying that she can’t take the sub back to ‘real’ 1970’s because there would be a yound and old Juliette in the same time? Which is why some here have suggested that Ben didn’t travel to the 70’s on island because he would have a yound and old ‘him’ then.

  605. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319319"][quote comment="319307"]
    I also think that we have not seen the exact date on the island when 816 crashed. Correct me if I am wrong, but I still think they could be somewhere before or after the real timeline off of the island. [/quote]
    In the S2 Finale, Desmond shows Locke the prinout from pushing the numbers in the Pearl which confirms the date of the crash. IMO.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:2x23_That%27sNotGood.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    ++++++++++++++++

    I believe that is the date in the real world time. That computer could have been ticking away at real world time just as well as it could have been on island time. The fact that it was on the island doesn’t mean anything. I can set my watch or my computer to any time I choose. We have not had any subtext or direct confirmation of island time yet for the period after the 815 crash. I believe that is for a reason. Unless someone remembers something that I don’t.
    The fact that the freighter time or Desmond calling Penny fits into the real world time picture does not change anything either. The freighter and Penny are after all from and in real world time. Hence the fact that the freighter disappeared for sawyer and juliet. Not to mention the fact that they had to constantly use the right bearing to go between the freighter and the island.

  606. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319323"][quote comment="319319"][quote comment="319307"]
    I also think that we have not seen the exact date on the island when 816 crashed. Correct me if I am wrong, but I still think they could be somewhere before or after the real timeline off of the island. [/quote]
    In the S2 Finale, Desmond shows Locke the prinout from pushing the numbers in the Pearl which confirms the date of the crash. IMO.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:2x23_That%27sNotGood.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    ++++++++++++++++

    I believe that is the date in the real world time. That computer could have been ticking away at real world time just as well as it could have been on island time. The fact that it was on the island doesn’t mean anything. I can set my watch or my computer to any time I choose. We have not had any subtext or direct confirmation of island time yet for the period after the 815 crash. I believe that is for a reason. Unless someone remembers something that I don’t.
    The fact that the freighter time or Desmond calling Penny fits into the real world time picture does not change anything either. The freighter and Penny are after all from and in real world time. Hence the fact that the freighter disappeared for sawyer and juliet. Not to mention the fact that they had to constantly use the right bearing to go between the freighter and the island.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    I have a thought. The rocket that Dan had sent from the freighter was off my minutes, not years, hours or even days. So I think that the island was on it’s way to time issues, but when the plane crashed…it was sync’d up with the real world.

  607. LizS says:

    OMG, I didn’t think I would EVER get here, but 602 posts later…it’s not like everyone said everything there is to say about this episode, yet, is it? LOL–I’m sure I can find something to throw into the very large mix!!!

    re:498–PJ’s zombie season–now that was funny!!!

    re: 508, Ben & Annie–i could see that if something happened to Annie, that might be the catalyst for Ben’s complicity in the Purge-but I still think you have to have that inner twist to make that decision. Also, there’s the whole bit of Alpert playing to Ben’s need to be special–creating an us v. them in the young Ben’s mind.

    re:521–Flyboy:
    >>>

    I think it’s safe to say that the Purge is one of those ‘what happened, happened’ events–but with some huge Qs now. I mean that we saw Ben participate, we saw the aftermath, and we saw the open grave with bodies in it–well, we don’t know who the other bodies might be, but we know that Horace was one of them. So we know that it happened. Unless that Rule we were given about Time can be changed by Desmond or some other circumstance, the Dharma folks are going to be killed.

    So, are any of the O6 going to be with them when the end comes? How did the truce end, and who caused that to happen? Jack? Daniel, trying to circumvent Charlotte’s death in spite of what he knows can and can’t be changed?

    I do think we’re going to circle back to the season opener, and we’ll know what Daniel means to do down there in the Orchid–for the good of all or the good of Charlotte??? Don’t know.

    Best, Liz

  608. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319271"][quote comment="319269"][quote comment="319201"]Why were Ben and the Others dressed like medieval sersfs when they were holding Walt captive?[/quote]
    ///////////////////////
    the french men were also dressed like that when they came out from under the temple ![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I disagree, their close were consistent with what folks would wear on research missions….prepared for rough conditions.[/quote]
    ///////////////////////////////////////
    not the alive ones ,the ones that were on the ground on the beach ,that i think danielle had shot.

  609. LizS says:

    re:553–the cute Richard Alpert–
    I have to say i think he’s ‘cute’ too–did anyone see him in The Tick? Batmanuel. verrrry funny.
    –Liz

  610. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319330"][quote comment="319271"][quote comment="319269"][quote comment="319201"]Why were Ben and the Others dressed like medieval sersfs when they were holding Walt captive?[/quote]
    ///////////////////////
    the french men were also dressed like that when they came out from under the temple ![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I disagree, their close were consistent with what folks would wear on research missions….prepared for rough conditions.[/quote]
    ///////////////////////////////////////
    not the alive ones ,the ones that were on the ground on the beach ,that i think danielle had shot.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Sorry, I just disagree that their clothes changed or look ancient. :)

  611. LizS says:

    Also, is anyone (else) going to be bummed if this all circles back to the Purge, and that ends up being the War that’s coming (acc’d to Widmore)?

    BTW–also like Juliet & Sawyer–

    re: tunnels–d’ya think Juliet might know more about these that the rest? She was an Other for 3 years. If there are secrets beneath the barracks, she might have some ideas about them.

    Also, she has to know what’s coming, you figure, unless they left the Purge off the travel brochure.

    -Liz

  612. DocH says:

    [quote] BTW–also like Juliet & Sawyer–
    re: tunnels–d’ya think Juliet might know more about these that the rest? She was an Other for 3 years. If there are secrets beneath the barracks, she might have some ideas about them. Also, she has to know what’s coming, you figure, unless they left the Purge off the travel brochure.
    [/quote]
    I think Juliet knew alot, but probably not the tunnels. In 2004, she and Kate fled the smoke monster and had to come through the sonic fence the old fashioned way. Ben may have turned smokie loose on them.

    Plus when they were going in with Amy in 1974 and got zapped… she could have said – I know another way in. Or she was “told” the tunnels had not been built yet.

    I think Juliet knows about most of the above ground stuff, and stations. I think the Alperts, Mikhails, Klughs and Tom Friendly types know about all of the ancienty-things and island bonus-extras. They had the ‘need to know’ jobs over more than a decade. Juliet only had the fertility issue job for three years.

  613. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319307"]Thank you, I was about to post it as well. Anyways, I am used to getting shot down so I was debating keeping it to myself.
    [/quote]

    Flyboy, please understand that I don’t think anyone is shooting “you” down. Sometimes we can take debate personally, but you ought not. People might be shooting down your THEORY, but not you! You have some great contributions, so don’t hold back! Please!

    [quote comment="319307"]I also think that we have not seen the exact date on the island when 816 crashed. Correct me if I am wrong, but I still think they could be somewhere before or after the real timeline off of the island. [/quote]

    The flight left Sydney on 9/22/2004. Depending on what TIME of day they departed, they may have crashed on the 22nd or the 23rd.

    Are you suggesting that the “time” they landed might have been the 1990’s, for example? Definitely possible, but given the rocket experiment, it is more likely that they just crashed thirty odd minutes early (which is remarkable – a flight “landing” early! LOL). But, that doesn’t explain the doctor washing up on shore HOURS before he was murdered.

    : ) P

  614. Rita says:

    [quote comment="319360"][quote] BTW–also like Juliet & Sawyer–
    re: tunnels–d’ya think Juliet might know more about these that the rest? She was an Other for 3 years. If there are secrets beneath the barracks, she might have some ideas about them. Also, she has to know what’s coming, you figure, unless they left the Purge off the travel brochure.
    [/quote]
    I think Juliet knew alot, but probably not the tunnels. In 2004, she and Kate fled the smoke monster and had to come through the sonic fence the old fashioned way. Ben may have turned smokie loose on them.

    Plus when they were going in with Amy in 1974 and got zapped… she could have said – I know another way in. Or she was “told” the tunnels had not been built yet.

    I think Juliet knows about most of the above ground stuff, and stations. I think the Alperts, Mikhails, Klughs and Tom Friendly types know about all of the ancienty-things and island bonus-extras. They had the ‘need to know’ jobs over more than a decade. Juliet only had the fertility issue job for three years.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Still, Juliet shrank away from the window when she saw Alpert walking up. She hadn’t met him yet in 1974, so she shouldn’t have been worried about him recognizing her, but she acted as though he WOULD. Richard didn’t seem to already know Locke when they met in the army camp, but I think Juliet knows something about Alpert that made her think he might know her. Perhaps something had changed since 1952 and Juliet knows what it was. I never have thought that she has come clean on everything she knows.

  615. RGS says:

    As far as island time being materially different from “real world” time, didn’t the Press conference for the O6 pretty much confirm that the time spent on the island was in line with what was going on in the real world?

    Also in the last ep. it seems that writers are going out of their way to show that 3 years on island=3 years off island.

  616. Miraks says:

    Tunnels- I am not getting why people seem to assume that Alpert used a tunnel to get to the Dharma baracks, or that there are tunnels to get around (or in this case under) the fence. I took his statement that they could not be kept out by the fence to mean that a sonic fence just was not able to keep them out- as in it could not harm them no matter what setting it was on. (because it only works on those that are living in the everyday sense?)

    Also, I will go on record saying that I do trust Juliette. I do not think she is a bad person in any way. She might have lived with the Others for three years, but it was more as a prisoner than as one of them.

    Another thing, while Ben was the inside man for the Purge, I do not think he was necesserily the master-mind behind it. Unless I missed that part. So I’m not sure whether anything (like Annie’s death as I have read here several times) had to set him off.

  617. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319412"]
    Another thing, while Ben was the inside man for the Purge, I do not think he was necesserily the master-mind behind it. Unless I missed that part. So I’m not sure whether anything (like Annie’s death as I have read here several times) had to set him off.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Not that this confirms it, but there was a scene where Locke told Hurley that Ben was ‘what happened’ to the Dhamites in the pit…Ben didn’t deny it.

  618. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319410"]As far as island time being materially different from “real world” time, didn’t the Press conference for the O6 pretty much confirm that the time spent on the island was in line with what was going on in the real world?

    Also in the last ep. it seems that writers are going out of their way to show that 3 years on island=3 years off island.[/quote]

    Yes. And I agree with you.

    Except that three years on the island can equal three years off the island and it still be a different time period. The O815 crashed on 9/22/04 and the O6 was rescued 108 days later. I think what other posters are saying is that those 108 days didn’t HAVE to take place in 2004 and early 2005. FWIW, I think it did, but I am just throwing it out there.

    : ) P

  619. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319430"][quote comment="319412"]
    Another thing, while Ben was the inside man for the Purge, I do not think he was necesserily the master-mind behind it. Unless I missed that part. So I’m not sure whether anything (like Annie’s death as I have read here several times) had to set him off.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Not that this confirms it, but there was a scene where Locke told Hurley that Ben was ‘what happened’ to the Dhamites in the pit…Ben didn’t deny it.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    FROM S4E11, Cabin Fever.

    HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn’t wipe out the DHARMA Initiative–

    BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn’t my decision.

    HURLEY: Then whose was it?

    BEN: Their leader’s.

    Of course, as we know, Ben is a liar, so who knows if he was telling the truth.

  620. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319410"]As far as island time being materially different from “real world” time, didn’t the Press conference for the O6 pretty much confirm that the time spent on the island was in line with what was going on in the real world?
    [/quote]
    Yes, another good point. I always thought the island time was the same as real world time, even when O815 crashed on Sept. 22, 2004. I didn’t think there were any time differences until Desmond turned the fail-safe.

  621. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319434"] I think what other posters are saying is that those 108 days didn’t HAVE to take place in 2004 and early 2005. FWIW, I think it did, but I am just throwing it out there.[/quote]
    Wow, I guess I’m out of that debate then. I agree with you and I am pretty sure this will be CONFIRMED when we find out the identity of Amy’s baby. At least, if it is who I think it is. Maybe not the EXACT date, but relatively close to the same time period. Time is all relative.:)

  622. RGS says:

    [quote comment="319434"]
    Yes. And I agree with you.

    Except that three years on the island can equal three years off the island and it still be a different time period. The O815 crashed on 9/22/04 and the O6 was rescued 108 days later. I think what other posters are saying is that those 108 days didn’t HAVE to take place in 2004 and early 2005. FWIW, I think it did, but I am just throwing it out there.

    : ) P[/quote]

    If it didn’t take place in ’04-’05, the theory would be that it took place later than that correct? It wouldn’t have taken place between the purge and the crash of 815 because of Horace’s time of death, Desmond landing on the island and pushing the button, and, as been mentioned previously, the whole time frame reference with “The Constant.”

    It wouldn’t have taken place much later because of the crash of 316. If the island time for the 815 was say, 2011-2014, what would be the significance and/or what is the theory as to why that would come into play?

  623. PJSander says:

    RGS, I am not really *in* the debate, I was only showing how the 108 days could have been another time. Until I know more, I don’t think I want to even speculate on that one. At this point, I am not even sure the person who originally brought up the timeline is still IN the debate, nor am I sure which crash he or she was saying was in a different timeline. So… I am just going to stay out of this one now. Sorry if my getting in the middle muddled things up!

    : ) P

  624. duke says:

    [quote comment="319278"][quote comment="319220"][quote comment="318890"]I was re-reading some previous posts and found that Duke’s comment, #24, in the 316 thread pretty much says the same thing I’m trying to get across. But I dont think it was discussed that much.[/quote]
    _______________________
    THANKS!!!!!!! My point, if I remember correctly, is course correction=change. It just uses a different phrasing to say it. We all assume that what we have seen so far is the way it is suppossed to happen but we have been quite possibly misled and will now see events changed err course corrected.[/quote]
    _________________
    Could the oostumes be to throw off any time travelers so they would not know what era they are in – not sure why – but sounds like a reason for all the trouble of wearing fake clothes…[/quote]
    _________________________________
    I took the clothes/fake beards etc. as being a disguise so that the losties wouldn’t know that they were living comfortably in houses with running water and laudry facilities and things like this. Nothing more than to deceive them into believing that they were nomads just like the rundown village that Michael claimed was were they lived. It was a rouse to trick them into believing that they were hard up. IMO.

  625. duke says:

    [quote comment="319322"]This one has been bugging me. Were Sawyer’s comments to keep Juliette on the island the writers way of saying that she can’t take the sub back to ‘real’ 1970’s because there would be a yound and old Juliette in the same time? Which is why some here have suggested that Ben didn’t travel to the 70’s on island because he would have a yound and old ‘him’ then.[/quote]
    _____________________
    During the orchid video Chang freaks out about the bunnies being too close together. They could exist in the same time but maybe they just cannot get too close or it will disrupt/kill/blow them up whatever.

  626. Miraks says:

    comments 629+ Did you jump in time? It says your quotes are from 1year + ago? Are you on island time now?

  627. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319460"]comments 629+ Did you jump in time? It says your quotes are from 1year + ago? Are you on island time now?[/quote]

    Oh mylanta, that is totally freaky! LOL.

    : ) P

  628. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319455"][quote comment="319322"]This one has been bugging me. Were Sawyer’s comments to keep Juliette on the island the writers way of saying that she can’t take the sub back to ‘real’ 1970’s because there would be a yound and old Juliette in the same time? Which is why some here have suggested that Ben didn’t travel to the 70’s on island because he would have a yound and old ‘him’ then.[/quote]
    _____________________
    During the orchid video Chang freaks out about the bunnies being too close together. They could exist in the same time but maybe they just cannot get too close or it will disrupt/kill/blow them up whatever.[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////////
    Its called a rift.

  629. hlcfym says:

    [quote comment="318568"][quote comment="318563"]
    also…horace built jacob’s cabin [for himself/horace’s self and “the missus”…pre-purge.
    i’m wondering where jacob stayed before that.
    or if jacob was simply being held captive there and that’s why he said “help me.”?
    i feel like jacob is a really old character like alpert, but with all the time-jumping, it certainly seems possible he could be someone “newer”.[/quote]

    I think that Horace may have built a Cabin or more likely was planning to before he died, but not Jacobs cabin, the cabin is similar to Jacob it is not physical it moves and changes and only appears to particular people at particular times. Horace doesn’t really have a relationship to Jacob, he was dead when he mentioned the cabin, all characters when they die seem to have a far more deepened and mysterious knowledge of the island than when they were alive and they always seem to help alive people to get to where they need to be, i don’t think we really need to take Horace building the Cabin any further than a vision that the island gave Locke so he could find the Cabin and speak to Christian.[/quote]

    What do you think of Horace getting a nosebleed while he was building the cabin and talking to locke?? I thought it was weird when it happened, but that was before we had any knowledge of the time travel nosebleeds.

  630. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319460"]comments 629+ Did you jump in time? It says your quotes are from 1year + ago? Are you on island time now?[/quote]
    ////////////////////
    I SAW IT AND NOW ITS GONE!

  631. duke says:

    [quote comment="319467"][quote comment="319455"][quote comment="319322"]This one has been bugging me. Were Sawyer’s comments to keep Juliette on the island the writers way of saying that she can’t take the sub back to ‘real’ 1970’s because there would be a yound and old Juliette in the same time? Which is why some here have suggested that Ben didn’t travel to the 70’s on island because he would have a yound and old ‘him’ then.[/quote]
    _____________________
    During the orchid video Chang freaks out about the bunnies being too close together. They could exist in the same time but maybe they just cannot get too close or it will disrupt/kill/blow them up whatever.[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////////
    Its called a rift.[/quote]
    _____________________________
    Whatever it is called. I think you all understand what I am trying to say. THey could exist in the same time but if they got too close it would cause a RIFT.

  632. LostJunkie says:

    I couldn’t agree more with Lola in Comment 553…Sawyer is becoming a more heroic figure because he has been moved to do so by his love for Kate.

    From Comment 581, concerning exactly what Mikhail says to Locke, I think if you dissect the language the likely meaning is that he indeed knew more of Locke than just what he knew in the file. If he had only known Locke from the file, it doesn’t make sense that he would have jokingly told Sayid and Kate he didn’t know who they were, yet go out of his way to mention that he remembered Locke fleetingly. We don’t know how, but he knew of him somehow irrespective of the file, IMO.

    I don’t think Juliet is a bad person or evil, but I do have a gut feeling that she is hiding something. I’ve felt that since first watching her be introduced to the show. I think we will see a major revelation from her soon.

    One final thing: this talk of “rifts” makes me think of that Van-Damme movie “TimeCop”, where they say that the same matter can’t occupy the same space, and at the end the senator dude implodes and whacks himself because his older self comes back to the past and physically touches his younger self. Could this be a first…a Van-Damme reference on a “Lost” blog? LOL.

  633. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319370"][quote comment="319307"]Flyboy, please understand that I don’t think anyone is shooting “you” down. Sometimes we can take debate personally, but you ought not. People might be shooting down your THEORY, but not you! You have some great contributions, so don’t hold back! Please!
    [/quote]

    +++++++++++++++

    Thank you. I meant that tongue in cheek. I am not offended. You guys all have some great ideas and I love reading them.

    [quote comment="319370"][quote comment="319307"]Are you suggesting that the “time” they landed might have been the 1990’s, for example?
    [/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++

    Yes, or maybe even in the future past 2004.

    [quote comment="319370"][quote comment="319307"]Definitely possible, but given the rocket experiment, it is more likely that they just crashed thirty odd minutes early (which is remarkable – a flight “landing” early! LOL). But, that doesn’t explain the doctor washing up on shore HOURS before he was murdered.
    [/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++

    True, but the rocket could enter the island at a different time than it left the boat (left boat 2004 enter island in the 90’s or even in the future). The 36 minute difference in the journey time is only the time of travel and not necessarily reflective of the destination time that it ends in…. I hope I am not confusing you more. I love physics and it is theoretically possible to warp the canvas of space and time so much so that it bends back on itself and two seemingly very distant points in space and time can make contact.

    I guess I will let this die for now till we see the result of ‘when’ 315 crashed. ‘When’ Locke is back on the island. The main reason I am thinking along this line is because I think it could help explain why dead people appear alive. Anyways, we shall see….

  634. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319479"][quote comment="319370"]Flyboy, please understand that I don’t think anyone is shooting “you” down. Sometimes we can take debate personally, but you ought not. People might be shooting down your THEORY, but not you! You have some great contributions, so don’t hold back! Please!
    [/quote]

    +++++++++++++++

    Thank you. I meant that tongue in cheek. I am not offended. You guys all have some great ideas and I love reading them.

    [quote comment="319370"]Are you suggesting that the “time” they landed might have been the 1990’s, for example?
    [/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++

    Yes, or maybe even in the future past 2004.

    [quote comment="319370"]Definitely possible, but given the rocket experiment, it is more likely that they just crashed thirty odd minutes early (which is remarkable – a flight “landing” early! LOL). But, that doesn’t explain the doctor washing up on shore HOURS before he was murdered.
    [/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++++

    True, but the rocket could enter the island at a different time than it left the boat (left boat 2004 enter island in the 90’s or even in the future). The 36 minute difference in the journey time is only the time of travel and not necessarily reflective of the destination time that it ends in…. I hope I am not confusing you more. I love physics and it is theoretically possible to warp the canvas of space and time so much so that it bends back on itself and two seemingly very distant points in space and time can make contact.

    I guess I will let this die for now till we see the result of ‘when’ 315 crashed. ‘When’ Locke is back on the island. The main reason I am thinking along this line is because I think it could help explain why dead people appear alive. Anyways, we shall see….[/quote]

    +++++++++++++++

    Sorry I hope that fixes my messed up quoting job above.

  635. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319450"][quote comment="319434"]

    It wouldn’t have taken place much later because of the crash of 316. If the island time for the 815 was say, 2011-2014, what would be the significance and/or what is the theory as to why that would come into play?[/quote]

    If it was later than that could help explain why some dead people are alive (resurrected as some might say).

    For example….

    Charlie — Died in the looking glass station grenade
    incident. If that was in the future than
    that could help to explain why Hurley and
    the other character at the mental
    institute saw him after the O6 were
    rescued.

    Locke — Turned the wheel on the island and was
    alive in the future time of the island
    prior to leaving to Tunisia.
    Then died in the real world prior to being
    still alive in the future (on the island)
    therefor would need to be back alive on the
    island after 316 as a course correction.

    Christian — Was on the island in some future island
    time that we have not yet seen. Maybe
    that will come to be the significance
    of seeing his dad earlier this season.
    Therefor since he was alive in the
    future he would again have to be alive
    through some course correction.

    The reason for all this is the fact that other people
    are seeing these guys alive. Locke, Jack and Claire have seen Christian. Hurley and the other guy at the institute saw Charlie. Numerous people have seen Locke. These guys can’t be apparitions, there has to be an explanation. I don’t buy resurrection. Maybe Christian and Locke but what about Charlie, that is a stretch. Charlie couldn’t have been resurrected just to visit Hurley and convince him to return to the island… that seems odd to me.

    I could be way off, I am just trying to think things through in different ways. Something is odd here. I remember people mentioning the fact that the coffin that Jack found empty was a different coffin than the one he buried his dad in prior to the 816 crash. Could that be Locke’s coffin from 315?

  636. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="319345"]Also, is anyone (else) going to be bummed if this all circles back to the Purge, and that ends up being the War that’s coming (acc’d to Widmore)?
    **********
    Yes!! That will be quite the anti-climax. The way Darlton have played things up, the war has to be something cataclysmic/apocalyptic, and must have bigger implications than just a purge that wipes out a few people on an unknown island that can’t even stay put.

    *************
    BTW–also like Juliet & Sawyer–
    **************
    I like Juliet and Sawyer too. I didn’t like it when Kate slapped Sawyer in S4. And why did he take that? Afterall, he did have a point..she keeps bouncing from one target to another.

    **************

    re: tunnels–d’ya think Juliet might know more about these that the rest? She was an Other for 3 years. If there are secrets beneath the barracks, she might have some ideas about them.

    Also, she has to know what’s coming, you figure, unless they left the Purge off the travel brochure.

    -Liz[/quote]

    ********
    Another thing that struck me about Juliet was the surety and immediacy with which she shot the other in the scene where Amy had the bag over her head. Its like she knew those others and knew that they were dangerous and had to take them down. She didn’t flinch before she shot them and the fact that Sawyer looked so surprised when she did may be hinting that Juliet had some prior knowledge of something.

  637. Newbie says:

    Sorry, the commenting got mixed up so I;m just going to post this with all my comments after the quote.

    [quote comment="319345"]Also, is anyone (else) going to be bummed if this all circles back to the Purge, and that ends up being the War that’s coming (acc’d to Widmore)?

    BTW–also like Juliet & Sawyer–

    re: tunnels–d’ya think Juliet might know more about these that the rest? She was an Other for 3 years. If there are secrets beneath the barracks, she might have some ideas about them.

    Also, she has to know what’s coming, you figure, unless they left the Purge off the travel brochure.

    -Liz[/quote]

    About the purge: Yes!! That will be quite the anti-climax. The way Darlton have played things up, the war has to be something cataclysmic/apocalyptic, and must have bigger implications than just a purge that wipes out a few people on an unknown island that can’t even stay put.

    I like Juliet and Sawyer too. I didn’t like it when Kate slapped Sawyer in S4. And why did he take that? Afterall, he did have a point..she keeps bouncing from one target to another.

    Another thing that struck me about Juliet was the surety and immediacy with which she shot the other in the scene where Amy had the bag over her head. Its like she knew those others and knew that they were dangerous and had to take them down. She didn’t flinch before she shot them and the fact that Sawyer looked so surprised when she did may be hinting that Juliet had some prior knowledge of something.

  638. PJSander says:

    Flyboy, honey…

    Repeat after me:

    Eight FIFTEEN

    Three SIXTEEN

    8 – 15

    3 – 16

    You’re going to need an intervention! LOL.

    But as long as we’re on the topic, can anyone think of a GOOD reason why it is THREE sixteen and not FOUR?

    4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

    : ) P

  639. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319436"][quote comment="319430"][quote comment="319412"]
    Another thing, while Ben was the inside man for the Purge, I do not think he was necesserily the master-mind behind it. Unless I missed that part. So I’m not sure whether anything (like Annie’s death as I have read here several times) had to set him off.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Not that this confirms it, but there was a scene where Locke told Hurley that Ben was ‘what happened’ to the Dhamites in the pit…Ben didn’t deny it.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    FROM S4E11, Cabin Fever.

    HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn’t wipe out the DHARMA Initiative–

    BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn’t my decision.

    HURLEY: Then whose was it?

    BEN: Their leader’s.

    Of course, as we know, Ben is a liar, so who knows if he was telling the truth.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Oooops, remembered that wrong…should have looked it up first.

  640. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319468"]
    What do you think of Horace getting a nosebleed while he was building the cabin and talking to locke?? I thought it was weird when it happened, but that was before we had any knowledge of the time travel nosebleeds.[/quote]
    FWIW, I believe that the purge gas cause the nose bleed. IMO it was not TD from time travel.

  641. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319517"]Flyboy, honey…

    Repeat after me:

    Eight FIFTEEN

    Three SIXTEEN

    8 – 15

    3 – 16

    You’re going to need an intervention! LOL.

    But as long as we’re on the topic, can anyone think of a GOOD reason why it is THREE sixteen and not FOUR?

    4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

    : ) P[/quote]
    The bible reference? JOHN 3:16. I was hoping someone was going to kick a long field goal and hold up a sign.:)

  642. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319567"]
    Oooops, remembered that wrong…should have looked it up first.[/quote]
    I only remembered that scene beacause, at the time, I suggested Ben said leaders’ ( plural ) and not leader’s. They do sound the same. After watching S3E4, Every Man for Himself, on the WB last night. I found this exchange reminding me of my original thought, that there is more than one “leader”.

    JACK: You work for him?

    JULIET: No, I don’t work for him.

    JACK: He’s in charge.

    JULIET: Well, it doesn’t work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.

    JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.

    JULIET: You don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t answer to him.

  643. lost4ever says:

    I woke up this morning with a nosebleed from “skipping” ahead an hour last night.:)

  644. lola says:

    i re-watched the episode, faraday is in the house that sawyer and juliet goes in when alpert shows up, he’s standing by the door. However, when horace comes in to ask sawyer where the buried bodies are, he’s not to be seen when the camera pans the house

  645. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319611"]i re-watched the episode, faraday is in the house that sawyer and juliet goes in when alpert shows up, he’s standing by the door. However, when horace comes in to ask sawyer where the buried bodies are, he’s not to be seen when the camera pans the house[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    That was likley ’74. We haven’t seen him yet in ’77….IMO.

  646. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319586"][quote comment="319567"]
    Oooops, remembered that wrong…should have looked it up first.[/quote]
    I only remembered that scene beacause, at the time, I suggested Ben said leaders’ ( plural ) and not leader’s. They do sound the same. After watching S3E4, Every Man for Himself, on the WB last night. I found this exchange reminding me of my original thought, that there is more than one “leader”.

    JACK: You work for him?

    JULIET: No, I don’t work for him.

    JACK: He’s in charge.

    JULIET: Well, it doesn’t work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.

    JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.

    JULIET: You don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t answer to him.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    Okay. Ponderous. If there are leaders leading together as you have proposed, then maybe Ben wasn’t who exiled Widmore…but a group decision?

  647. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment="319517"]Flyboy, honey…

    Repeat after me:

    Eight FIFTEEN

    Three SIXTEEN

    8 – 15

    3 – 16

    You’re going to need an intervention! LOL.

    [/quote]

    I do! LOL

  648. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="319618"][quote comment="319586"][quote comment="319567"]
    Oooops, remembered that wrong…should have looked it up first.[/quote]
    I only remembered that scene beacause, at the time, I suggested Ben said leaders’ ( plural ) and not leader’s. They do sound the same. After watching S3E4, Every Man for Himself, on the WB last night. I found this exchange reminding me of my original thought, that there is more than one “leader”.

    JACK: You work for him?

    JULIET: No, I don’t work for him.

    JACK: He’s in charge.

    JULIET: Well, it doesn’t work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.

    JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.

    JULIET: You don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t answer to him.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    Okay. Ponderous. If there are leaders leading together as you have proposed, then maybe Ben wasn’t who exiled Widmore…but a group decision?[/quote]
    +++++++++
    But Widmore said I was exhiled by HIM. I think one him but not Ben.

  649. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="319322"]This one has been bugging me. Were Sawyer’s comments to keep Juliette on the island the writers way of saying that she can’t take the sub back to ‘real’ 1970’s because there would be a yound and old Juliette in the same time? Which is why some here have suggested that Ben didn’t travel to the 70’s on island because he would have a yound and old ‘him’ then.[/quote]
    _+++++++
    If miles is the baby that we saw in the season opener then there are either two of him or he hasn’t been born yet.

  650. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319624"]
    But Widmore said I was exhiled by HIM. I think one him but not Ben.[/quote]
    Not sure if I believe Widmore’s statements. He also claimed the island was his back in 1954 as a 17 year-old.

  651. DocH says:

    [quote] Ponderous. If there are leaders leading together as you have proposed, then maybe Ben wasn’t who exiled Widmore… but a group decision? [/quote]
    Remembering that Juliet had her little island trial and was branded. I wonder if Widmore has a ho-tag on his lower back?

  652. DocH says:

    [quote]Another thing that struck me about Juliet was the surety and immediacy with which she shot the other in the scene where Amy had the bag over her head. Its like she knew those others and knew that they were dangerous and had to take them down. She didn’t flinch before she shot them and the fact that Sawyer looked so surprised when she did may be hinting that Juliet had some prior knowledge of something.[/quote]
    That’s a rather “creative” approach. But after watching it just now, it simply boils down to…
    – – – –
    Saw: You got my back?
    Jul: Yes.
    Saw: Put the gun down (to bad guy)!
    BGuy: …(bad guy raises pistol and starts to point it at Sawyer)…
    Jul: (shoots bad guy before he shoots Sawyer – thereby satisfying the agreed upon small team tactical contract known as – ‘got my back’.)
    – – – -

  653. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319478"]

    One final thing: this talk of “rifts” makes me think of that Van-Damme movie “TimeCop”, where they say that the same matter can’t occupy the same space, and at the end the senator dude implodes and whacks himself because his older self comes back to the past and physically touches his younger self. Could this be a first…a Van-Damme reference on a “Lost” blog? LOL.[/quote]
    ////////////////////
    exactly !i think it was einstien or newton or some one…..who said it originally

  654. gmta leah says:

    Only just watched ‘lafleur’ The statue has pyjama,s and ugg boots on !

  655. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319624"][quote comment="319618"][quote comment="319586"][quote comment="319567"]
    Oooops, remembered that wrong…should have looked it up first.[/quote]
    I only remembered that scene beacause, at the time, I suggested Ben said leaders’ ( plural ) and not leader’s. They do sound the same. After watching S3E4, Every Man for Himself, on the WB last night. I found this exchange reminding me of my original thought, that there is more than one “leader”.

    JACK: You work for him?

    JULIET: No, I don’t work for him.

    JACK: He’s in charge.

    JULIET: Well, it doesn’t work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.

    JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.

    JULIET: You don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t answer to him.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    Okay. Ponderous. If there are leaders leading together as you have proposed, then maybe Ben wasn’t who exiled Widmore…but a group decision?[/quote]
    +++++++++
    But Widmore said I was exhiled by HIM. I think one him but not Ben.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Maybe, but I think Widmore is less than truthful.

  656. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319669"]
    JULIET: No, I don’t work for him.

    JACK: He’s in charge.

    JULIET: Well, it doesn’t work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.

    JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.

    JULIET: You don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t answer to him.[/quote]

    – – – – – – – – –

    Interjecting about the scene itself… perhaps in this case, Ben was happy to let Jack “kill” Juliet because he knew that Juliet would live. Hammer, you’ve mentioned you think that “Ben always has a plan” because the Whisperers tell him what to do. Perhaps this was in play back then?

    : ) P

  657. Circus Mom says:

    I am looking at the time and course correction like this.

    There is a actual true, or Real Life Time (RLT). Right now on the show that time is a day or two after flight 316 crashed. Everyone that is with Locke is in that real time. Anything that happened before that date in 2008 already happened and can’t change. This means all the time traveling happened and everything associated with it. The purge, the crash of 815, The O6 returning to the “real world”. Nothing they do in the past will change what we have seen because it all has happened before the current RLT.

    Course correction happens only in the future, relative to the event it is correcting. If Charlie was supposed to get hit by lightning and die and Desmond stops it then something else will happen minutes, days, weeks later to kill Charlie. No one will go to a time before it happened and stop Desmond from saving Charlie. It already happened in RLT.

    RLT is the farthest time in the future that we are shown. Right now it is 2008. If we had seen a RLT and everything that had happened to that point would have already happened. We may not have seen it yet.

    Sawyer and his group can change nothing before 2008 but what they do now can affect anything after real time, or post 2008.

    Dose this make any sense?

  658. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319734"]

    Sawyer and his group can change nothing before 2008 but what they do now can affect anything after real time, or post 2008.

    Dose this make any sense?[/quote]
    Nice explanation! That’s the way I see it, for now, CM.

  659. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319714"] Hammer, you’ve mentioned you think that “Ben always has a plan” because the Whisperers tell him what to do. Perhaps this was in play back then?
    [/quote]
    Now I’m gonna have to read that theory, AGAIN.:) Good thing there is a thread for it.

  660. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319630"][quote] Ponderous. If there are leaders leading together as you have proposed, then maybe Ben wasn’t who exiled Widmore… but a group decision? [/quote]
    Remembering that Juliet had her little island trial and was branded. I wonder if Widmore has a ho-tag on his lower back?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I would not doubt Widmore having a mark. Juliet got hers for killing Pickett. I can’t remember if she was quick on the trigger that time or not?

  661. katesFriend says:

    [quote]

    It wouldn’t have taken place much later because of the crash of 316. If the island time for the 815 was say, 2011-2014, what would be the significance and/or what is the theory as to why that would come into play?

    If it was later than that could help explain why some dead people are alive (resurrected as some might say).

    For example….[quote]

    If 815 landed on the island in the future, and this is why some dead people aer alive, it is possible that 316 is also in the future. Just b/c it left in 2007(8?), doesn’t mean when Locke, et al crashed on the other island, they weren’t somewhere else in time, possibly the future, too

  662. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319583"]
    But as long as we’re on the topic, can anyone think of a GOOD reason why it is THREE sixteen and not FOUR?

    4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

    : ) P[/quote]
    The bible reference? JOHN 3:16. I was hoping someone was going to kick a long field goal and hold up a sign.:)[/quote]

    – – – – – – – – – – –

    Neither John 3:16, nor Luke 3:16 were particularly relevant to the episode, IMO. It may be that D&C chose 316 so that we LOSTaholics would THINK that the bible passage is the way they were going and throw us OFF of a possible flight number thought process.

    Still, given their affection for using the Valenzetti numbers at every turn, I am surprised they didn’t incorporate them SOME how! LOL.

    : ) P

  663. 10times says:

    I didn;t understand why sayid was allowed on the plane even though he was supossed to be incarcerated. And how the hell do you get an unidentified dead body on a plane going out of the country no questions asked?

  664. Lazy Viewer says:

    [quote comment="319770"]I didn;t understand why sayid was allowed on the plane even though he was supossed to be incarcerated. And how the hell do you get an unidentified dead body on a plane going out of the country no questions asked?[/quote]
    You must have missed some of the show? hmmm… no? Sayid, a non-US national, was being escorted by law enforcement on Ajira. That’s WHY he was allowed on the plane – not sure if he was being extradited or deported though. Locke in the box was identified and questions were asked. Dr. Jack wasn’t family, but had custody of the body. He was escorting it, not to a receiving funeral home or cemetary, but in accordance with the deceased wishes. (like – A Weekend at Bernie’s).

  665. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319739"][quote comment="319714"] Hammer, you’ve mentioned you think that “Ben always has a plan” because the Whisperers tell him what to do. Perhaps this was in play back then?
    [/quote]
    Now I’m gonna have to read that theory, AGAIN.:) Good thing there is a thread for it.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Good call….if that theory holds water. :)

  666. BaileyLovesLost says:

    [quote comment="319179"][quote comment="319078"]Who’s to say that the Ajiran flight landed on the island in 2008? It very well could have landed in 1977 and Sawyer and crew could have flashed to 1977 (not 2008) and the water bottle would have still looked new in 77 if that is when then Ajiran passengers are.
    I don’t see how the Ajiran passengers are in 2008/present day and Kate, Jack and Hurley are in 1977….. wouuldn’t that mean the island is existing in two different places? I think Ben could very well be able to be in 1977 when his younger self was because during one of the flashes Locke and Sawyer were near the places on the island when Claire was giving birth and the light was on in the hatch. Does that make sense?[/quote] Wow! Did you do all these posts at work? You must have a really nice boss![/quote]
    **********************************
    Ha-ha. I read very fast during my breaks and lunch :-)

  667. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="319900"][quote comment="319179"][quote comment="319078"]Who’s to say that the Ajiran flight landed on the island in 2008? It very well could have landed in 1977 and Sawyer and crew could have flashed to 1977 (not 2008) and the water bottle would have still looked new in 77 if that is when then Ajiran passengers are.
    I don’t see how the Ajiran passengers are in 2008/present day and Kate, Jack and Hurley are in 1977….. wouuldn’t that mean the island is existing in two different places? I think Ben could very well be able to be in 1977 when his younger self was because during one of the flashes Locke and Sawyer were near the places on the island when Claire was giving birth and the light was on in the hatch. Does that make sense?[/quote] Wow! Did you do all these posts at work? You must have a really nice boss![/quote]
    **********************************
    Ha-ha. I read very fast during my breaks and lunch :-)[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Lostaholic rule #1….never tell your boss about the awesome LOST blog you post at. LOL.

  668. BaileyLovesLost says:

    Too funny. I love this blog. I don’t post much, but I read this blog a lot and think the theories are great!

    Instead of all of the underground tunnel theories (which I think are really good), couldn’t Alpert have just climbed over the sonic fence like Kate, Jack and whoever else it was did in S3? I think they pushed Mikhail threw it and “thought” he died, and then they made a bridge-type thing and climbed up and over the fence and then they saw Jack playing football with the Others. Am I remembering this correctly?

    Now that my lunch break is over, I probably won’t be on here again until tonight :-)

  669. jaime says:

    [quote comment="319333"][quote comment="319330"][quote comment="319271"][quote comment="319269"][quote comment="319201"]Why were Ben and the Others dressed like medieval sersfs when they were holding Walt captive?[/quote]
    ///////////////////////
    the french men were also dressed like that when they came out from under the temple ![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I disagree, their close were consistent with what folks would wear on research missions….prepared for rough conditions.[/quote]
    ///////////////////////////////////////
    not the alive ones ,the ones that were on the ground on the beach ,that i think danielle had shot.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Sorry, I just disagree that their clothes changed or look ancient. :)[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    I agree with Hammer. If you go back and take a close look at when they first arrived and then when they are killed by Rousseau they have the exact same clothing on. They been on the island for enough time that their clothes are very very dirty, that’s all.

  670. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="319901"][quote comment="319900"][quote comment="319179"][quote comment="319078"]Who’s to say that the Ajiran flight landed on the island in 2008? It very well could have landed in 1977 and Sawyer and crew could have flashed to 1977 (not 2008) and the water bottle would have still looked new in 77 if that is when then Ajiran passengers are.
    I don’t see how the Ajiran passengers are in 2008/present day and Kate, Jack and Hurley are in 1977….. wouuldn’t that mean the island is existing in two different places? I think Ben could very well be able to be in 1977 when his younger self was because during one of the flashes Locke and Sawyer were near the places on the island when Claire was giving birth and the light was on in the hatch. Does that make sense?[/quote] Wow! Did you do all these posts at work? You must have a really nice boss![/quote]
    **********************************
    Ha-ha. I read very fast during my breaks and lunch :-)[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Lostaholic rule #1….never tell your boss about the awesome LOST blog you post at. LOL.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Now we know that BaileyLovesLost (or someone posting as Bailey) posted on the blog, but we don’t KNOW that Bailey read all the posts.

    We do know that Bailey’s boss was reading the posts or they wouldn’t have found Bailey’s. That is if MysticEye really is Bailey’s boss and not trying to mislead us.

  671. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319760"]

    Neither John 3:16, nor Luke 3:16 were particularly relevant to the episode, IMO. It may be that D&C chose 316 so that we LOSTaholics would THINK that the bible passage is the way they were going and throw us OFF of a possible flight number thought process.
    [/quote]
    I don’t think they were throwing us off at all. IMO. I think JOHN 3:16 is an obivous reference to Locke, although it was shown in the next episode, Locke being alive again on the island. Didn’t they say that those 2 episodes could have been aired in either order?

  672. shellonius funk says:

    i watched “special” lastnight…season one…and it’s the one with walt studying the australian birds, and he said:

    “Who cares about birds of Australia, anyway? We’re in Australia….Shouldn’t we be studying birds of Egypt or something?”

    EGYPT!! clues have been there all along!
    i nearly sharted.

  673. Eric says:

    One of my top 5 favorite Lost episodes ever. So well done…

  674. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319910"]i watched “special” lastnight…season one…and it’s the one with walt studying the australian birds, and he said:

    “Who cares about birds of Australia, anyway? We’re in Australia….Shouldn’t we be studying birds of Egypt or something?”

    EGYPT!! clues have been there all along!
    i nearly sharted.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Recently saw that on Sci-fi and thought the same thing.:)

  675. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="319915"][quote comment="319910"]i watched “special” lastnight…season one…and it’s the one with walt studying the australian birds, and he said:

    “Who cares about birds of Australia, anyway? We’re in Australia….Shouldn’t we be studying birds of Egypt or something?”

    EGYPT!! clues have been there all along!
    i nearly sharted.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Recently saw that on Sci-fi and thought the same thing.:)[/quote]
    ___________________

    I watched a re-run of “Man of Science, Man of Faith” recently. It’s the one where Jack meets Desmond in the stadium. I swear Desmond KNEW Jack already. Listening to their conversation, it seems like Des is saying soooo much more than what he is actually saying.

  676. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319905"]I don’t think they were throwing us off at all. IMO. I think JOHN 3:16 is an obivous reference to Locke, although it was shown in the next episode, Locke being alive again on the island. Didn’t they say that those 2 episodes could have been aired in either order?[/quote]

    Locke was “risen” or “resurrected” or even reincarnated. But none of those things relates directly to John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Looking at it literally, that would make Ben “the father” since he “gave” Locke to the world (the island) by killing him. Even if you look at Locke’s attempted suicide, the most you can get from it is self-sacrifice. If you want to step back further and say that Alpert, who told Locke he had to die, is the “father” we might be getting somewhere in the reference.

    1 Corinthians 15:4 is better suited to our story: that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. And it even uses two of our Valenzetti numbers. But that passage isn’t nearly as famous as John 3:16.

    So while I agree that there is a loose reference, I still believe that 316 was intended to lead us down a path OTHER than to a flight number.

    : ) P

  677. maybe says:

    Sawyer, Jack, Hurley and Kate were the 4 singled out by Ben when he had Michael betray the losties in order to save Walt. He wanted those 4 specifically brought back to him.

    He personally knew them from before because in the 70s they will all be part of Dharma. So not counting Ben and Locke, this leaves Sayid, Sun, Jin and Frank as the only other 4 to have left and come back (technically Jin did leave the island when he went to the freighter)

    We know that they cannot change the future so they will either escape the purge or die in it like everyone else. However, we have no precedent of anyone leaving the island and losing all recollection of it unless you are physically dead when you leave. So my guess is that all 4 (or 8) will die in/before rather than escape the purge.

    So my theory is: If you leave it alive you never forget about it but if you die on the island and somehow get shipped out, you could come back to life but you lose all recollection of ever being there.

    1. If island-time is (equal to) outside-world-time then when you die, you die regardless of where you are.
    2. If island-time is (pre) outside-world-time and you die on it then you get sent back, you re-live your life like normal with zero recollection of the island. This is the state we find our losties in today. The trick here is this, if you die on the island in an altered timeframe (being in the 70s when you really wasn’t supposed to be) and get shipped back to the real world, you wake up where you were originally. Which would explain what will happen in the future to the original lot. If they all die in the purge and someone sends them back out, they will wake up and pick off just before the original flight.
    3. If island-time is (ahead) outside-world-time then if you get sent back out, dead or alive, you are alive and can never die in the real world. Like Michael because we were told that he could not die off the island. When he was sent back, the island-time was probably ahead of outside-world-time i.e. he and Walt must die on the island to ever die. The reason why I think the island skipped forward in time when Michael and Walt left, was probably caused by the hatch blowing when Desmond turned the key. During all the flashes of the island, I do not believe that we have seen a single case for forward skipping in time, always backwards.

    Now the true key here is really Aaron because he was born on the island so his time will always be island-time regardless of where he goes. If Kate had brought him back, he would have disappeared from existence because he was never yet born. People born on the island will never age ala Richard Alpert and Aaron (when he comes back).

    This also brings us back to Christian Shephard, he was a body on flight 815 and he too comes back to some visible form which supports the theory that the island was running (pre) outside-world time, so technically Christian had not died yet based on island time so he comes back to life for as long as it takes for the island to catch up to outside world time, then he dies. That state qualifies him as a bit unique which explains his special abilities. Same would explain Yemi or Eko’s brother, he too died on the drug plane flight from his wounds, slightly ahead of island time which made him visible to Eko with a heightened state.

  678. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319919"]
    So while I agree that there is a loose reference, I still believe that 316 was intended to lead us down a path OTHER than to a flight number.

    : ) P[/quote]
    You are taking the passage word for word. I am not. I am relating it to the everlasting life part, the loose reference. I don’t think they used the Corinthian one because as you said, it is not as popular. Also Locke was never buried so how would that relate? IMO, it was them foreshadowing what was to happen.

  679. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="319228"][quote comment="319102"][quote comment="319093"][quote comment="319075"]
    [/quote]
    This may be important and it hasn’t been talked about much here. What/who are they searching for?

    My money is on Rose/Bernard/rest of tailies.

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Interesting – Why do you think it was Rose and Bernard that they are searching for? I’m still wondering why they never found them, but I do believe they are actually searching for Locke, and the O6 that he went to bring back. He knows that Locke was successful in some sense, because the flashes/nosebleeds/headaches have stopped, and has been waiting for him to return.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I guess the main reason is Locke has a reason for not being there and R&B don’t. In Sawyer’s mind, when/if Locke comes back he will be looking for them. R&B and the rest of the 815’ers would have no reason to seek out DHARMA to find Sawyer, so he has to look for them.

  680. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319922"]Sawyer, Jack, Hurley and Kate were the 4 singled out by Ben when he had Michael betray the losties in order to save Walt. He wanted those 4 specifically brought back to him.

    He personally knew them from before because in the 70s they will all be part of Dharma. So not counting Ben and Locke, this leaves Sayid, Sun, Jin and Frank as the only other 4 to have left and come back (technically Jin did leave the island when he went to the freighter)

    We know that they cannot change the future so they will either escape the purge or die in it like everyone else. However, we have no precedent of anyone leaving the island and losing all recollection of it unless you are physically dead when you leave. So my guess is that all 4 (or 8) will die in/before rather than escape the purge.

    So my theory is: If you leave it alive you never forget about it but if you die on the island and somehow get shipped out, you could come back to life but you lose all recollection of ever being there.

    1. If island-time is (equal to) outside-world-time then when you die, you die regardless of where you are.
    2. If island-time is (pre) outside-world-time and you die on it then you get sent back, you re-live your life like normal with zero recollection of the island. This is the state we find our losties in today. The trick here is this, if you die on the island in an altered timeframe (being in the 70s when you really wasn’t supposed to be) and get shipped back to the real world, you wake up where you were originally. Which would explain what will happen in the future to the original lot. If they all die in the purge and someone sends them back out, they will wake up and pick off just before the original flight.
    3. If island-time is (ahead) outside-world-time then if you get sent back out, dead or alive, you are alive and can never die in the real world. Like Michael because we were told that he could not die off the island. When he was sent back, the island-time was probably ahead of outside-world-time i.e. he and Walt must die on the island to ever die. The reason why I think the island skipped forward in time when Michael and Walt left, was probably caused by the hatch blowing when Desmond turned the key. During all the flashes of the island, I do not believe that we have seen a single case for forward skipping in time, always backwards.

    Now the true key here is really Aaron because he was born on the island so his time will always be island-time regardless of where he goes. If Kate had brought him back, he would have disappeared from existence because he was never yet born. People born on the island will never age ala Richard Alpert and Aaron (when he comes back).

    This also brings us back to Christian Shephard, he was a body on flight 815 and he too comes back to some visible form which supports the theory that the island was running (pre) outside-world time, so technically Christian had not died yet based on island time so he comes back to life for as long as it takes for the island to catch up to outside world time, then he dies. That state qualifies him as a bit unique which explains his special abilities. Same would explain Yemi or Eko’s brother, he too died on the drug plane flight from his wounds, slightly ahead of island time which made him visible to Eko with a heightened state.[/quote]
    ///////////////////////////////
    exellent theory.

  681. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="319107"][quote comment="319102"]This may be important and it hasn’t been talked about much here. What/who are they searching for?

    My money is on Rose/Bernard/rest of tailies.

    By the way, we saw Daniel in 1974…without
    re-watching, did we see him in 1977?[/quote]

    a. agreed, see post 536

    b. who is the “rest of the” tailies? As far as I know, Bernard is the only tailie left. Right?

    c. We did not see Daniel in 1977 in LaFleur. There is speculation that we saw him in 1977 in the opening scenes of Because You Left.

    : ) P[/quote]
    _______________________________
    b – sorry, misspoke. 815’ers not tailies
    c – or more specifically, after 1974 and before 1977 (since we didn’t see him in 77 yet?)

  682. BaileyLovesLost says:

    **********************************
    Ha-ha. I read very fast during my breaks and lunch :-)[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Lostaholic rule #1….never tell your boss about the awesome LOST blog you post at. LOL.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Now we know that BaileyLovesLost (or someone posting as Bailey) posted on the blog, but we don’t KNOW that Bailey read all the posts.

    We do know that Bailey’s boss was reading the posts or they wouldn’t have found Bailey’s. That is if MysticEye really is Bailey’s boss and not trying to mislead us.[/quote]
    *********************************
    Whoever “MysticEye” is, I’m thinking they think I am someone else. But it is a little creepy :-P
    And no one has been pretending to be me and posting under my name. All the posts are from me!

    I can’t wait until the new episode!

    This is a little off subject, but has anyone played LOST video game for PS3? I know it’s been out for awhile, but I just got it – and beat it very quickly. They need to come out with a new updated game once the show is over. (Though I can’t imagine the show being over, it makes me sad!)

    To add my two cents on the Sawyer/Juliet/Kate/Jack thing. I actually think I am content with the idea that Sawyer and Juliet are together and happy. I just don’t know if it will last now that Kate is back. And though I did read all of the posts, I don’t remember seeing this….. are we sure that Sawyer was talking about Kate when he was saying “Is three years long enough to get over somebody… Yes it is.” Or however he worded it. Could he have been referring to Cassidy when he said that he ‘let them go?’

  683. Kathy P says:

    Im confused. Is the Hydra station on the smaller island? That is also where the cages and the polar bears where right? Also is that the same place that the Dharma housing is? In the opening scene it showed those 2 guys watching the tv screens and the one guy joked about the polar bear escaping. So how come they did not hear the plane land? Locke and everyone else is in the year 2008? and the other people (Sawyer, Jack, Horace Etc…) are in 1977 when the episode ended? So they are in the exact same place but different times?

  684. Tarzan says:

    LOST for Dummies – by Tarzan

    Tarzan make new swim big island.

    Walk on beach to trees when bright light make Tarzan take long sand nap.

    Tarzan wake to find red body water come from face.

    He also wake to see giant statue of older brother, George.

    Island natives like George best, George die many moon cycles ago.

    Tarzan not always liked by natives.

    Native Chief Richard Alpert always tell Tarzan go away.

    One time, Tarzan throw knife, kill native man trying to kill science girl.

    Something not right Tarzan world when look for tall mango trees and water.

    Tall trees very small like baby mango tree.

    Hole in ground with water – all fill with dirt.

    Tarzan see many new island faces, not all are happy.

    Yellow hair man and yellow hair woman make happy talk like love birds.

    Tarzan think they make yellow hair baby one day soon.

    Tarzan head for safety in caves, no want red body water come from ears when walk past empty science trees.

    … Tarzan also think brown hair woman just arrive – make hard time for yellow hair man.

  685. gmta leah says:

    I have been up all night researching . .and my opinion on the statue is . pre inca / myan .Tiwanaka to be prescise. It was the trousers on, with the skirt that set me thinkin.I was reading something which mentions ‘the removel of toes and heels of statues by archeologists,I dont think the image we saw that, sayid ,sun and jin saw from the boat of the four toed foot,belongs to the statue we saw in ‘lafleur’Its different archeological art.any inca myan experts among us?

  686. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319931"]Im confused. Is the Hydra station on the smaller island? That is also where the cages and the polar bears where right? [/quote]
    Yes.
    [quote comment="319931"]Also is that the same place that the Dharma housing is? [/quote]
    No.

  687. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319928"]b – sorry, misspoke. 815’ers not tailies[/quote]

    Even so, R&B, as far as I can tell, are the only O815 passengers LEFT on the island (other than Sawyer and Jin). I suppose there may be a few red shirts wandering in the jungle with R&B, but if there are, it is only because they will perish in a future plot line! LOL.

    : ) P

  688. Kathy P says:

    [quote comment="319931"]Also is that the same place that the Dharma housing is? [/quote]
    No.[/quote]
    #########################
    It did not seem like it took those guys very long to get from where they were stationed to Sawyers place after they saw horace blowing up trees. Maybe that is why im confused. It just seems like everything is close togeather. Hydra station, housing, cages all on the small island.
    Now we have Locke, The plane and the new group on the same small island but different times?

  689. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="319942"][quote comment="319928"]b – sorry, misspoke. 815’ers not tailies[/quote]

    Even so, R&B, as far as I can tell, are the only O815 passengers LEFT on the island (other than Sawyer and Jin). I suppose there may be a few red shirts wandering in the jungle with R&B, but if there are, it is only because they will perish in a future plot line! LOL.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ========================
    Completely agree…however Jin specifically said “our people”…which to me means R&B + soon-to-be-dead redshirts, not John Locke.

  690. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319938"]I have been up all night researching . .and my opinion on the statue is . pre inca / myan .Tiwanaka to be prescise. It was the trousers on, with the skirt that set me thinkin.I was reading something which mentions ‘the removel of toes and heels of statues by archeologists,I dont think the image we saw that, sayid ,sun and jin saw from the boat of the four toed foot,belongs to the statue we saw in ‘lafleur’Its different archeological art.any inca myan experts among us?[/quote]

    I am not an expert in Incan or Mayan civilization, but I think that Tiwanaka is a PLACE not a GOD, of which a statue would be made. Also, the statues in those civilizations were not as lifelike as the back of the statue in Lafleur.

    You could be correct that the statue we saw in Lafleur is not 4TS. It isn’t as if we haven’t been thrown red-herrings before! I am sure that D&C get a chuckle out of us traveling down the various rabbit trails they have left for us. Like the thorn in Sawyer’s toe. They had to put that in just to make the fans go nuts making the connection between that and 4TS!

    That’s why things like “Teresa” in England, and 316 and Horace’s baby aren’t ALWAYS some meaningful connection to the story. Sometimes, they have to put stuff in there (just to make us crazy and) to throw us off the main trail. If they ONLY put in stuff that was 100% relevant to the overall story-arc, it would become far too obvious over time.

    JMO,
    : ) P

  691. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319943"]It did not seem like it took those guys very long to get from where they were stationed to Sawyers place after they saw horace blowing up trees. Maybe that is why im confused. It just seems like everything is close togeather. Hydra station, housing, cages all on the small island.
    Now we have Locke, The plane and the new group on the same small island but different times?[/quote]

    The two guys and the girl with the brownies were on the main island where the barracks are. Horace was on the main island.

    Hydra station and cages are on the small island. If there ARE barracks there, we haven’t seen them. (There was a ferry that went between the two islands.)

    A316 landed/crashed on the small island with Locke and Ben. Kate, Hurley and Jack flashed to the big island.

    : ) P

  692. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319947"][quote comment="319938"]I That’s why things like “Teresa” in England, and 316 and Horace’s baby aren’t ALWAYS some meaningful connection to the story.
    JMO,
    [/quote]
    LOL. I think ALL 3 of these are very meaningful. Have you been keeping up with your podcasts PJ? :)

  693. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="319943"]
    Hydra station, housing, cages all on the small island.
    Now we have Locke, The plane and the new group on the same small island but different times?[/quote]
    The BARRACKS, or Dharma housing is located on the Big Island as is the Orchid/well, the 4TS, the Temple, Smokey, etc. The Hydra, cages, and presumably r—-y are on the small island, where 316 Sully-landed.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Barracks

  694. Hooked says:

    I like maybe’s theory @ #682, too!

  695. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="319956"]LOL. I think ALL 3 of these are very meaningful. Have you been keeping up with your podcasts PJ? :)[/quote]

    I have! I think each person takes different things away from the podcasts, just as they do the episodes! LOL.

    : ) P

  696. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="319947"][quote comment="319938"]I have been up all night researching . .and my opinion on the statue is . pre inca / myan .Tiwanaka to be prescise. It was the trousers on, with the skirt that set me thinkin.I was reading something which mentions ‘the removel of toes and heels of statues by archeologists,I dont think the image we saw that, sayid ,sun and jin saw from the boat of the four toed foot,belongs to the statue we saw in ‘lafleur’Its different archeological art.any inca myan experts among us?[/quote]

    I am not an expert in Incan or Mayan civilization, but I think that Tiwanaka is a PLACE not a GOD, of which a statue would be made. Also, the statues in those civilizations were not as lifelike as the back of the statue in Lafleur.

    You could be correct that the statue we saw in Lafleur is not 4TS. It isn’t as if we haven’t been thrown red-herrings before! I am sure that D&C get a chuckle out of us traveling down the various rabbit trails they have left for us. Like the thorn in Sawyer’s toe. They had to put that in just to make the fans go nuts making the connection between that and 4TS!

    That’s why things like “Teresa” in England, and 316 and Horace’s baby aren’t ALWAYS some meaningful connection to the story. Sometimes, they have to put stuff in there (just to make us crazy and) to throw us off the main trail. If they ONLY put in stuff that was 100% relevant to the overall story-arc, it would become far too obvious over time.

    JMO,
    : ) P[/quote]
    //////////////////////////////

  697. Amber says:

    This is just my opinion but i really think the statue is going to be of someone we know from the show. I like all the ideas of the different gods people have researched and belive me i have done some myself however we have to remember that we are some seriouse lost lovers, but there are alot of people that just watch the show to watch it and dont think so deeply about it like we do. So i doubt its going to be some god that half the people that watch the show wont know anything about. they are going to go for the big shock of all of us seeing it and knowing who it is (someone on the island) just my opinion though

  698. duke says:

    [quote comment="319919"][quote comment="319905"]I don’t think they were throwing us off at all. IMO. I think JOHN 3:16 is an obivous reference to Locke, although it was shown in the next episode, Locke being alive again on the island. Didn’t they say that those 2 episodes could have been aired in either order?[/quote]

    Locke was “risen” or “resurrected” or even reincarnated. But none of those things relates directly to John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Looking at it literally, that would make Ben “the father” since he “gave” Locke to the world (the island) by killing him. Even if you look at Locke’s attempted suicide, the most you can get from it is self-sacrifice. If you want to step back further and say that Alpert, who told Locke he had to die, is the “father” we might be getting somewhere in the reference.

    1 Corinthians 15:4 is better suited to our story: that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. And it even uses two of our Valenzetti numbers. But that passage isn’t nearly as famous as John 3:16.

    So while I agree that there is a loose reference, I still believe that 316 was intended to lead us down a path OTHER than to a flight number.

    : ) P[/quote]
    _______________________
    Jesus, God’s only begotten son, died at the hands of others as well as Locke did. Others fit in nicely there didn’t it. LOL. This is how I took the episode. Jesus was killed and so, in my opinion, Locke couldn’t commit suicide someone had to kill him (like someone on here metioned maybe he couldn’t have committed suicide if he did end up stepping off the table). I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT LOCKE IS BEN’S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.

  699. Amber says:

    so if we think along the lines of it being someone we know who will it be???? any ideas

  700. duke says:

    [quote comment="319922"]Sawyer, Jack, Hurley and Kate were the 4 singled out by Ben when he had Michael betray the losties in order to save Walt. He wanted those 4 specifically brought back to him.

    He personally knew them from before because in the 70s they will all be part of Dharma. So not counting Ben and Locke, this leaves Sayid, Sun, Jin and Frank as the only other 4 to have left and come back (technically Jin did leave the island when he went to the freighter)

    We know that they cannot change the future so they will either escape the purge or die in it like everyone else. However, we have no precedent of anyone leaving the island and losing all recollection of it unless you are physically dead when you leave. So my guess is that all 4 (or 8) will die in/before rather than escape the purge.

    So my theory is: If you leave it alive you never forget about it but if you die on the island and somehow get shipped out, you could come back to life but you lose all recollection of ever being there.

    1. If island-time is (equal to) outside-world-time then when you die, you die regardless of where you are.
    2. If island-time is (pre) outside-world-time and you die on it then you get sent back, you re-live your life like normal with zero recollection of the island. This is the state we find our losties in today. The trick here is this, if you die on the island in an altered timeframe (being in the 70s when you really wasn’t supposed to be) and get shipped back to the real world, you wake up where you were originally. Which would explain what will happen in the future to the original lot. If they all die in the purge and someone sends them back out, they will wake up and pick off just before the original flight.
    3. If island-time is (ahead) outside-world-time then if you get sent back out, dead or alive, you are alive and can never die in the real world. Like Michael because we were told that he could not die off the island. When he was sent back, the island-time was probably ahead of outside-world-time i.e. he and Walt must die on the island to ever die. The reason why I think the island skipped forward in time when Michael and Walt left, was probably caused by the hatch blowing when Desmond turned the key. During all the flashes of the island, I do not believe that we have seen a single case for forward skipping in time, always backwards.

    Now the true key here is really Aaron because he was born on the island so his time will always be island-time regardless of where he goes. If Kate had brought him back, he would have disappeared from existence because he was never yet born. People born on the island will never age ala Richard Alpert and Aaron (when he comes back).

    This also brings us back to Christian Shephard, he was a body on flight 815 and he too comes back to some visible form which supports the theory that the island was running (pre) outside-world time, so technically Christian had not died yet based on island time so he comes back to life for as long as it takes for the island to catch up to outside world time, then he dies. That state qualifies him as a bit unique which explains his special abilities. Same would explain Yemi or Eko’s brother, he too died on the drug plane flight from his wounds, slightly ahead of island time which made him visible to Eko with a heightened state.[/quote]
    ———————————-
    If we are to believe Daniel’s claim that what happened happened then the Losties cannot die in the purge because it did not happen because we saw them alive in 2008. If you buy into this notion then there is NO WAY that they will die during those events or what we have seen over the past 4 plus seasons could have never happened. I do not believe that the losties were ORIGINALLY there in the past therefore they may perish in the purge or some other kind of war that Widmore mentions.

  701. duke says: