He’s Our You

lost_sayid.jpgHe’s Our You will be a Sayid-centric episode (about time) and should prove to be quite interesting. With Sawyer in control and “thinking” about what to do next, I do not expect Sayid to wait around too long in his cell for Sawyer to figure it out. I think it’s also safe to say we get more of creepy-kid Ben in this episode as well. The dynamic between Sayid and him should be compelling given the way that Sayid feels about Ben now.

ABC’s Official Show Description

Spoiler Alert

“Things begin to unravel when one of the survivors goes rogue and takes matters into their own hands — risking the lives of everyone on the island”

The dialogue between Jack and Sawyer in last week’s episode spells trouble for a jubilant reconciliation amongst the Oceanic 6 and those left behind, in my opinion. Three years is a long time and the situation has certainly been turned on its head, with Sawyer assuming the leadership role and Jack forced to essentially wait and see what happens next. In my opinion, that is one of the greatest components of Lost as a television series – the reality of the situation is that, in three years, much HAS changed as it relates to the interpersonal relationships within the characters on the show and the group cannot just pick up where things left off.

Episode Preview: He’s Our You

Episode Sneak Peeks

Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3

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436 Responses to He’s Our You

  1. PJSander says:

    *phew*

    I thought we might not get a thread for this episode!

    : ) P

  2. The Wrz says:

    He’s our you? could we finally see a character meet themselves? I doubt it.

  3. Nick says:

    [quote comment=”324310″]*phew*

    I thought we might not get a thread for this episode!

    : ) P[/quote]

    Yeah, sorry. Long day

  4. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”324313″]Yeah, sorry. Long day[/quote]

    No worries, Nick. I am just glad it is here with time to spare. BTW, I never see any posts from you or Will (at least not under those names) so as long as I possibly have your attention *bg*

    T H A N K
    Y O U !

    for providing us with this forum to discuss ideas SPOLIER FREE! There are so few places out there!

    : ) P

  5. Rita says:

    Yeah! The thread is us at last – thanks Nick!

  6. Rita says:

    I mean UP of course! oops :)

  7. Heidi says:

    I know this doesn’t have to do with tonight’s episode, but I have heard that Kate is suppose to be pregnant. I know this is all speculation. But has anyone else heard anything about this?

  8. Circus Mom says:

    Three and a half more hours. I hate being on the West coast on Wednesdays. I have finally given in and watch the spoilers and read the blog while it is airing on the East coast. It takes too long to catch up otherwise. So for me, 45 minutes until I see the previews.

  9. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”324323″]Three and a half more hours. I hate being on the West coast on Wednesdays. I have finally given in and watch the spoilers and read the blog while it is airing on the East coast. It takes too long to catch up otherwise. So for me, 45 minutes until I see the previews.[/quote]
    ////////////////////////
    And when do you atually watch this weeks episode,cm?

  10. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”324322″]I know this doesn’t have to do with tonight’s episode, but I have heard that Kate is suppose to be pregnant. I know this is all speculation. But has anyone else heard anything about this?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I think some people have speculated about this, mostly because if she was pregnant, she would be simulating a pregnant Claire on flight 316. I don’t think we have any REAL information about this yet.

  11. gmta leah says:

    sorry i will rephrase that , are you 3 hours behind the east coast ? does it air 3 hours after ?what time is it now where you are?

  12. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”324327″]sorry i will rephrase that , are you 3 hours behind the east coast ? does it air 3 hours after ?what time is it now where you are?[/quote]

    The west coast (like California) is three hours behind the east coast (like New York). If CM is on the west coast, she will get to see it starting at midnight east coast time. She will start watching it two hours after the east coast FINISHes watching it.

    HTH,

    : ) P

  13. Tasha says:

    I missed all of last weeks thread and don’t want to go back and read it all….so later, if I post anything that was discussed last week, SORRY:(

  14. kimm says:

    Sayid is a sexy killer.

  15. Lori says:

    Ben said he “hated” (past tense) his dad. What does he mean by hated? Didn’t his father die during rhe purge, or could this be a change in the past?

  16. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324345″]Ben said he “hated” (past tense) his dad. What does he mean by hated? Didn’t his father die during rhe purge, or could this be a change in the past?[/quote]

    EXACTLY! WTF?

  17. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324345″]Ben said he “hated” (past tense) his dad. What does he mean by hated? Didn’t his father die during rhe purge, or could this be a change in the past?[/quote]

    He said HATE IT HERE! LOL

  18. I LUV this Show says:

    OMG!!!! I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!!

  19. The Wrz says:

    Didn’t see that coming.

  20. kimm says:

    ughhhhhhhh. Get to the good stuff already. So explain course correcting the ending of the ep

  21. Tasha says:

    Holy crap. Even though I saw that coming, it still sucked. Cause I have kids I guess. He should have killed Ben’s dad! Sayid should have shot himself. Where the heck does he think he is going now?

  22. Tasha says:

    So does everything in the future change? Does Ben just disappear? He must not be dead! WTF! I love this show!

  23. The Wrz says:

    He can’t be dead. the island heals him or something, right?

  24. Tasha says:

    Nope. He dies and everything we have watched in the last 4 seasons NEVER happened! (Still in shock)

  25. Juliethater says:

    course correction at its finest!!!!!!

  26. jenn says:

    Did Sayid just kill Jin!??! I couldn’ tell! Looked like he snapped his neck!!!! My jaw dropped and I went blank for a few minutes. I love Jin! and I love Sayid! and now I dont know what to think!!!

  27. jenn says:

    No Ben’s dad didnt die in the purge. He burned in van.. Remember when Hurley and Sawyer found the van with a skeleton inside? The man’s Dharma jumper said “Workman”… or am I mixing up my dead Dharma people??

  28. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324359″]No Ben’s dad didnt die in the purge. He burned in van.. Remember when Hurley and Sawyer found the van with a skeleton inside? The man’s Dharma jumper said “Workman”… or am I mixing up my dead Dharma people??[/quote]

    It was kinda PART of the purge…all at same time. Yes, you got your man right though. Ben gassed his dad in it.

  29. Tasha says:

    Ok. So Ben said he met Albert 3 years ago, right? That would have been 3 years ago for Sawyer and them too, RIGHT? So what’s up with that? What’s up with him meeting Ben and having long hair and when he met Sawyer he had his regular haircut? Hmmmm, I smell something fishy going on? lol

  30. Dan says:

    What about the old ‘what would happen if you went back in time and killed your own grandfather?” paradox?

  31. duke says:

    Interesting how Sayid mentioned “an incident” while handcuffed to the tree and talking about the Hatch. Could this be the incident that we have heard so much about? I doubt it but it was interesting that he used the phrase “incident.”

  32. Jim in Georgia says:

    I vote for Ben’s wounded and will recover. It’s just too soon for a conversion for nothing ever happened.

    8) Jim

  33. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”324363″]Ok. So Ben said he met Albert 3 years ago, right? That would have been 3 years ago for Sawyer and them too, RIGHT? So what’s up with that? What’s up with him meeting Ben and having long hair and when he met Sawyer he had his regular haircut? Hmmmm, I smell something fishy going on? lol[/quote]

    He said 4 years ago

  34. Kelley says:

    I am wondering how folks think they will explain how Ben did NOT just get killed…

  35. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”324365″]Interesting how Sayid mentioned “an incident” while handcuffed to the tree and talking about the Hatch. Could this be the incident that we have heard so much about? I doubt it but it was interesting that he used the phrase “incident.”[/quote]
    He knew about the incident from Dr Chang’s comments in the Orientation video for the Swan (I think it was the Swan video)

  36. duke says:

    About the book Separate Reality from wikipedia. Written by Carlos Castaneda in 1971. “Allegedly” a non-fiction tale about events that took place during Carlos’ apprenticeship with a self-proclaimed Yaqui Indian Sorcerer, Don Juan Matus between 1968-1971. It describes author’s experiences while under the influence of psychotropic plants including peyote and a smokeable mixture of dried mushroom of the genus Psilocybe. The main focus of the book was Don Juan’s attempts to get Carlos to SEE. SEE is decribed as “perceiving energy directly as it flows through the universe.”

  37. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”324367″]I vote for Ben’s wounded and will recover. It’s just too soon for a conversion for nothing ever happened.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    That’s my guess too. Similar to how Locke survived being shot by Ben.

    Maybe his recovery impresses the Othrs enough that they realize he’s special, and that leads to him eventually being their leader.

  38. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”324369″]I am wondering how folks think they will explain how Ben did NOT just get killed…[/quote]

    Because we understand what Farraday said… “What happened happened.” We KNOW Ben survived into adulthood to do all of the terrible things he’s done. Sayid can’t course correct, even though he wants to.

    Ben is wounded. Perhaps the wound will be the basis for the tumor that Jack will eventually remove for him? Perhaps that’s the reason for Ben’s contempt for Sayid?

  39. Toeknee says:

    I didn’t understand the purpose of the Oldham character. (although it was great to see Darryl and Darryl’s brother Larry, or E.B. Farnum, whichever you prefer). After they used the “truth syrum”, and they seemed to think he was hallucinating, why didn’t they try a different approach to find out what he knows, i.e., torturing him. That is what we were led to believe what Oldham does, right?

  40. Tasha says:

    Ya’ll should read some of the stuff in this link….about the book.

    http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan2.html

  41. duke says:

    [quote comment=”324370″][quote comment=”324365″]Interesting how Sayid mentioned “an incident” while handcuffed to the tree and talking about the Hatch. Could this be the incident that we have heard so much about? I doubt it but it was interesting that he used the phrase “incident.”[/quote]
    He knew about the incident from Dr Chang’s comments in the Orientation video for the Swan (I think it was the Swan video)[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I know that he knew about an “incident.” But we have heard about a mysterious incident in several episodes this year and have been debating what it means. I just found it interesting that he used the word incident to describe what happened at the Swan. The video, I believe, referenced an incident but it could not have been the thing Sayid was referring to. I think he was referring to what the Losties did at the Swan station and not the same incident that Chang referenced.

  42. Toeknee says:

    Another bit I didn’t understand – Sayid’s speech to Sawyer, where he claimed to realize what his purpose was. If at that moment he was talking about killing Ben, why wouldn’t he have taken Sawyer up on his offer to escape? How could Sayid know that somehow in the next few hours before his execution would be taking place, there would be some other way for him to get out of the prison cell? Seemed too contrived to me.

  43. katesFriend says:

    I don’t buy that the lady was bringing Sayid to Guam for the family of the Seychelles guy. Ben manipulated everyone (Sending atty’s to get Aaron, lying to Sun, etc) Ben told Sayid that someone was outside waiting for Hurley; I think this guy probably worked for Ben too. I know people speculated that the guy with the darts at the hospital was hired by Ben too. I think Ben hired the woman to bring Sayid to “guam” b/c he knew he sent Sayid to kill the guy and it was a last ditch effort to get Sayid on the plane. Crazy thing is, why did Ben want them to go back? He obviously isn’t faring too well now!

  44. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”324380″]I don’t buy that the lady was bringing Sayid to Guam for the family of the Seychelles guy. Ben manipulated everyone (Sending atty’s to get Aaron, lying to Sun, etc) Ben told Sayid that someone was outside waiting for Hurley; I think this guy probably worked for Ben too. I know people speculated that the guy with the darts at the hospital was hired by Ben too. I think Ben hired the woman to bring Sayid to “guam” b/c he knew he sent Sayid to kill the guy and it was a last ditch effort to get Sayid on the plane. Crazy thing is, why did Ben want them to go back? He obviously isn’t faring too well now![/quote]
    I agree about that lady (Ilana?) working for Ben, either directly or indirectly. So maybe she doesn’t know she’s working for Ben, so she was being honest when Sayid asked her about that. Plus, in her scenes on the island from previous episodes, she seemed truly clueless about what happened. And I know there have been tons of coincidences throughout the history of this show, but it seems too far fetched to think that she coincidentally chose that flight on her own.

  45. Toeknee says:

    I hope we’ll get more of an explanation as to what led Sayid to despise Ben so much. When Sayid killed Andropov, Sayid still seemed to be on relatively good terms with Ben. We didn’t see a specific event that would have changed that. Maybe the year or two between killing Andropov, and Ben telling Sayid that Locke was killed, Sayid figured out that Ben was manipulating him, but it’s not clear that that is the case. And that conversation between Ben and Sayid about Sayid being a killer didn’t seem like enough to cause Sayid to hate Ben enough to want to kill him. Am I missing something?

  46. LostGrrl says:

    What’s in Ann Arbor? Or who? And why was Horace so loathe to get them involved?

  47. carebare2115 says:

    U of M is in Ann Arbor. It’s where the Dharma Initiative started. With that Degroot guy. Funded by Hanso. Good episode though. Do you think the “hostiles” will happen upon Ben and save him?

  48. Heidi says:

    so when Kate said to Sawyer that she ‘knew why she came back’ was she getting that she was coming back for Sawyer? And what the hell happened with Aaron. Did she give him to Claire’s mom? I’m guessing.

  49. Heidi says:

    Also the title, “He’s Our You” was obviously about Sayid and who was that other guy, that Saywer was referring to ‘he’s our you?’ Was he someone significant we have seen or heard of from before. I really liked Lost back in Season 1 and 2, when it was believeable. Although I am obviously too addicted to stop watching it, or reading the blog!

  50. katesFriend says:

    If WHH, then Ben would know the Losties when 815 crashed. So why then would he have needed Mikhail to get all their info? Wouldn’t he have had this already, knowing they were going to crash?

  51. LostGrrl says:

    Much has been written about the time line. Is it straight or are there curves? By my way of thinking, the time line is really a circle.

    It’s like the chicken and the egg.. which came first?

    Assume the theory that Ben is just wounded after being shot by Sayid, and is still alive. Ben goes on to survive the purge, align with the Others, and meet up with the Oceanic castaways. He gets off the island and convinces Sayid to start his killing spree.

    Sayid then grows to despise Ben and realize all of Ben’s sins. Sayid returns to the island in 1977 and, considering what Ben did in the future, Sayid decides he should try to kill the teenage Ben while he can.

    But teen Ben survives. He goes on to survive the purge, align with the Others, and meet up with the Oceanic castaways. Perhaps he has an animosity toward Sayid because he knew he was shot by Sayid and that’s why he enlists him on the killing spree.

    But there’s no beginning to the story. It’s cyclical. That’s what’s called a paradox.

    Makes sense to me anyway…

  52. carebare2115 says:

    I love how every time you kind of feel on Ben’s side, he punches you in the face with bad guy-ness. I don’t think adult-ben said one true thing in this episode!

    I agree that the woman who brought Sayid in was working for Ben whether she knows it or not.

    I wanted to hear more truth from Sayid tied to a tree.. The dharma people not listening to him was kind of predictable though.

  53. LizS says:

    I think Ben is the best talker on the planet. He can convince someone who’s as jaded and experienced and dangerous as Sayid that white is black, it needs to be eliminated, and it was your idea to kill it, not his. Hello, genius!

    I think Sayid had an ‘aha’ moment in Russia. He’d been had. Revenge or prevention, or whatever, Sayid thought he was playing for the good guys, and…Bam!

    Ben walks away. Purpose removed. Sayid is friendless, alone, and life is looking bleak.

    I want to know what happened in the time between then and when Ben tries to get everyone to go back to the Island. I think he used Sayid to get revenge on Widmmore. When did the game change? Is it that he found out that to go back, he needed the O6? Or that to save the world, they had to go back, or that Hawking told him something that changed everything for him? What what what???? Is he thinking if they change something he can get Alex back alive?

  54. nathan says:

    Agreed. Too much time has been spent, though, and to quit would be pointless.

  55. Herkey says:

    Kudos to whoever said Hurley’s work assignment would be a cook.

  56. Lady Ginger says:

    What in the world is going on! Oh we know little Ben will survive. Maybe Juliet will help save him or Jack will help too. I believe there was someone in the van when it was on fire and that would be Ben’s cruel father. So far we know in order for one to be “special” they must have killed their own father.(remember Locke was said to have killed his father) I love Sayid and I hope he didn’t kill Jin. I’m looking forward to next’s week episode.

  57. LizS says:

    re: lil’Ben and future Ben. The way Ben has played the whole thing, you could say anything about what he knew and didn’t know–He is just that mysterious. Can you imagine seeing Sayid in the woods one day, and there’s you hanging there, helpless? Henry Gale, indeed.

    Here’s the man who shot me! Holy smokes.

    Ben knew, he had to know. That’s just uber chill. When did all the pieces click into place for him?

  58. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”324405″]What in the world is going on! Oh we know little Ben will survive. Maybe Juliet will help save him or Jack will help too. I believe there was someone in the van when it was on fire and that would be Ben’s cruel father. So far we know in order for one to be “special” they must have killed their own father.(remember Locke was said to have killed his father) I love Sayid and I hope he didn’t kill Jin. I’m looking forward to next’s week episode.[/quote]
    Ben’s father dies in the Purge–Ben does him in then. Sayid didn’t kill Jin, he just knocked him out.
    Cheers, Liz

  59. Amber says:

    hmmm not sure how I feel about that episode. Was Sawyer really going to just let them kill sayid?!?! I was waiting for Jack to step back in on that one! hurley being the chef is funny. Kate and Sawyer soooo have to get back together. I dont think Jack and the gang are going to be staying in dharmaville much longer, sawyer being the leader isnt going to last much longer he was going to let sayid get offed! And last but not least the ben getting shot thing he has to get healed right? or maybe that is why he is knocked out when locke sees him maybe he is in a coma or something until him as a little kid comes back to life

  60. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”324397″]If WHH, then Ben would know the Losties when 815 crashed. So why then would he have needed Mikhail to get all their info? Wouldn’t he have had this already, knowing they were going to crash?[/quote]
    In 1977, Ben doesn’t know that Sayid or Saywer or any of them are from the future, I don’t believe. As Sept 22, 2004 approaches, he doesn’t know that a plane carrying some people he met as a youngster will be crashing on the island. He won’t realize it’s them until he gets the info from Mikhail.

  61. Herkey says:

    [quote comment=”324405″]What in the world is going on! Oh we know little Ben will survive.

    I like the idea about Ben’s dad being in the van, mostly because he said that he “hated” him. I think that he killed him (possibly when he was drunk) and put him in the van. I have also been thinking this since we saw what Jack’s job assignment “Workman”. Last season when Hurley and Sawyer found the van we assumed the body in there with workman on his suit was Ben’s dad, but could it really by Jack?

  62. sector7 says:

    Seems to me Sayid should have tried harder. Gunshot to the chest might not kill a kid. Especially if he is found soon. I bet there will be a complication that requires a spinal surgeon and Jack will have to save him.

  63. jenn says:

    So…… Sorry I’m theorizing like everyone else.. too tired… but… IS JIN DEAD!?

  64. jenn says:

    I meant sorry I am **not** theorizing…

  65. Toeknee says:

    So was the scene with the young Sayid intended to be more or less a retelling of the scene of the young Eko back in season 2? Was it intended to further show a connection between the various characters on the show?

  66. LizS says:

    I liked this episode, and I like Sayid, but I kinda hoped there’d be more mythos information. It’s like filling in the blanks time, which, I kinda got most of it already, so let’s get busy with the critical info. Yeah, yeah, Sayid shoots Ben–but Ben isn’t going to die. Sayid wasn’t part of that ‘what you can and can’t change’ talk, darn it!

    Sayid sure did give Ben a push on the dark path, though, didn’t he?

    These fill in the blank eps are kind of annoying, because it’s like going over the same ground twice, or even more times. With the limited amount of episodes left, there are so many more things to get to!!!!

  67. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”324417″]So…… Sorry I’m theorizing like everyone else.. too tired… but… IS JIN DEAD!?[/quote]

    Nah. Just got a crack to the head.

  68. Amber says:

    Its so funny in the last thread we were all saying that we missed the slow pace story telling and that they were going way to fast. Now were like hey get on with it give us some good stuff

  69. jenn says:

    [quote comment=”324422″][quote comment=”324417″]So…… Sorry I’m theorizing like everyone else.. too tired… but… IS JIN DEAD!?[/quote]

    Nah. Just got a crack to the head.[/quote]

    Oh thank God. Sounded like he broke his neck! I couldn’t pull myself together!!

    Thanks!!!!

  70. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”324421″] Sayid sure did give Ben a push on the dark path, though, didn’t he? [/quote]

    You said it. Adult Ben is really an evil dude, but he was dealt a lousy hand… Forced into the DI by dear old Dad, who abuses him. And shot and left for dead by the guy he just sprung from jail. Poor kid. Of COURSE he ends up with screws loose.

  71. LizS says:

    LOTS of father issues on this show!

    But lil’Ben was kinda cute, I thought. I felt bad for him. Now if Sayid could figure out in ten seconds that Ben was an abused kid, what about the three years our peops were in the Dharma???? Couldn’t they have done something to protect the kid?

  72. LizS says:

    Do you think we’re going to get THAT conversation between Sayid and Ben? A ‘you made me who I am’ kind of thing? Sayid will just walk off a cliff.

  73. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324420″]So was the scene with the young Sayid intended to be more or less a retelling of the scene of the young Eko back in season 2? Was it intended to further show a connection between the various characters on the show?[/quote]
    _____________________

    I was thinking at first it was really similar, but not sure the significance:(

  74. Vaughn K says:

    I think Ben is awesome personally even though he is bad from what we know but i think in the end it will turn out that everything he did was in the best interest of the losties

    I dont know if it is just me or what but now that the O5 are back, it just feels like there is no point for anyone. Obviously they are building the story as to why they needed to come back, but right now its like what was the point of them to even coming back? to live in a house? but i know the story will unfold in time so i will just enjoy the ride.

  75. wally p says:

    First off, this episode was CRAZY good!

    Horace: Damn I thought he was about to pull out Sayids teeth with those pliers!

    Sayid: I figured Ben was gonna be that chicken sandwich.

    “He’s Our You”: Too cool. That whole scene had me pumped. The Future?!!! C’mon this was just rad, all I can say

    SAwyer: How could you have expected different? He tried to let Sayid go.

    Ben: Evil genius. Age 15. Yeah, I think he set the bus on fire.

    (“Three years no burning buses-you’re here one day”… classic)

    Sayid got away clean and easy. I think. Still handcuffed though. Jin’ll drive Ben home in the morning, what then? I dunno, but I’m gonna bask in the awsomeness of tonites show for now… I’ll think more about this as soon as I get to work tommorow…BAM later…

  76. might says:

    remember the conversation Locke had with the girl who just captured Sayid like two episodes ago?

    Locke: “the last thing i remember is dying.”

    “then how is it that you are here…?”

    Locke:”i dont know.”

    this is why Ben has to be dead. i have no idea what shape we are up to now with the time theories, something escher-like.

  77. m@ says:

    perhaps Ben surviving a gun shot wound to the heart/chest and being left for dead is what finally convinces Richard and/or Jacob that Ben is somehow ‘special’ to this island, giving Richard and the hostiles a reason to finally accept Ben as one of them. So what we perceive as Sayid trying to change the future by killing Ben in the past, is actually destiny playing out before our very eyes.

    I do also very much dig the idea of Jack performing surgery on Ben AGAIN to save his life, but that would totally blow their cover so I am not convinced that will happen….he is just a workman after all because of ‘aptitude test’ :)

  78. slugdoc says:

    I just have to echo —
    he whole pretzel (maybe mobius strip) time.
    Just like Locke is special because Richard told him he was, because Locke told HIM he was,

    Sayid shoots ben for all the bad things he did, and Ben did all those things because he was shot by Sayid.
    Wow.

    Up until this point, Ben really was just a sad, lonely loser kid. This MUST be the life changing event that turns him into evil ben.

    Talk about creating your own reality.

    Good night.

  79. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324469″]perhaps Ben surviving a gun shot wound to the heart/chest and being left for dead is what finally convinces Richard and/or Jacob that Ben is somehow ‘special’ to this island, giving Richard and the hostiles a reason to finally accept Ben as one of them. So what we perceive as Sayid trying to change the future by killing Ben in the past, is actually destiny playing out before our very eyes.

    quote]

    I love it!

  80. LostJunkie says:

    One of my theories is now apparently out the window and I’m a little worried now, quite frankly. I thought for sure that when we saw Ben all bloodied and battered when he calls Jack from the boat docks, just before they get on the Ajira flight, that it was because Sayid had beat the crap out of him. But based on what we saw tonight, it appears that Sayid met the woman (Ilana) after he left the docks at night after he had told Ben the “it will be unpleasant for both of us” line, and Ilana arrests him and gets him on the plane. So it would’ve been impossible for Sayid to beat up Ben before he boarded the plane.

    So is Ben beaten up because he DID kill Penny? I’ve been trying to not believe that, but now it could be true. I still don’t think it would make logical sense because Penny wouldn’t have done that to him, she’s not Ana Lucia, and I still maintain that if Desmond had gotten close enough to Ben to beat him that badly and he just saw his wife dead, that he would’ve killed Ben, not merely beaten him up and stopped at just a beating.

    Anybody else worried that Penny might now be dead?

  81. adapa1 says:

    YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

    *waving my flag* This is why this is OUR favorite show ….and hands down…
    “The best show EVER!!!!(la femme nikita takes second)

    How often do we get EXactly what we want in a show.?

    I have been screaming to shoot this fucking kid
    since 9:00!!!! shit…. since the start of this season!! But I never thought it would actually happen!!! Fuckin gangsta!! I would have shit my pants if he would’ve put a second bullet in Bens head, but beggars/spectors can’t choose shit!!

    Ok(calmer now)…… on a serious note:

    So I’m calling all my bets now. Forgive me for not reading the previous posts today. I have ADHD and need to get this down before i forget

    #1. WE all knoW Ben can’t die because he’s still alive in the future. But i say keep shooting him. I think Richard will come too his aid, and that this will be his intro into the ‘others’.

    2. I think my previous assumptions were wrong and that The event thatneed to be changed(to change the numbers) is not the purge but ‘the incident’. I’m having a hard time thinking the purge can be stopped when we already know punk ass Ben Is still alive in the future. on the other hand ….we still won’t know shit about the incident until this seasons finale.

    3.Farraday is still on the island… Trying to stop the incident? maybe Because he CAUSED it!!! We already know he was there. I’m saying he was the dharma physicist. mentored by parents eloise and widmore? I don’t think they were kicked off the island, I think they willingly left hoping that their Absence will help prevent the 2007 catastrophe.they send faaraday back after the swan explodes and they realize they changed nothing….( I think thats in the timeline theory)

    4. There HAS to be another working time machine on the island…that Ben has had access to this whole time, and that that is his destination now. Remember all ben suits and passports and shit? Well that stuff is useless if your method of travel is the donkey wheel.not to mention widmore watching. And he couldn’t have used the orchid because that was only for the time travel of ‘conciousness’. Damn it!!!! I’ll bet the dharma farm on this!!

    5. I call Bens death …..by Sayid’s hands….on the shows finale.

    6. The statue is anubis…….yet still can’t rule out the possibilty of Juliete.

    7. I finally thinking that all those people who called ‘Atlantis’ from the very beggining are right. Why the fuck else would they have used the heiroglyphs!! they could have used cunniform, or aramaic, or mayan for god sakes!! But no!! We have the glyphs ANd the statue? There is no other solution.

    8. And last… ( i swear i just thought of this right now) well we know the others are probably decendants from the black rock. Well I’ll say Jacob was one as well. Now i’ve been saying this whole time that jacob’s consciousness is caught between times…but i just could tie that in to john until now. “What if jacob sent his conciousness to the future and it ends up in john locke”
    Sounds crazy even for lost right? Well think about the whole dhali lami reicarnation test between richard….becuase thats exaclty what it was(the writers admit to this correlation) and that’s why John can’t die and neither can jacob, and why John’s so special. ?????please don’t shoot me for that one guys!!

    9. Could it end with Desmond CHOOSING to press the button again to save the world? Buts its ok becuase pennys there with him? Is destiny the finale question for them all?

    “this IS more than an island. It IS our fate to stay here. And we have no choice but to accept that, beacuase the only alternative is the same old numbers…and the same end of the world.

  82. LostJunkie says:

    OK, so for those saying that Ben can’t possibly be dead because we’ve seen him in the “future” as an adult, wouldn’t that also mean that none of the Losties we’re seeing in the 1970’s can die in Dharmaville in the 1970’s either? Meaning, we have nothing to worry about as far as any of them dying in the Purge? It would only stand to reason.

  83. adapa1 says:

    LostJunkie Wrote: OK, so for those saying that Ben can’t possibly be dead because we’ve seen him in the “future” as an adult, wouldn’t that also mean that none of the Losties we’re seeing in the 1970’s can die in Dharmaville in the 1970’s either? Meaning, we have nothing to worry about as far as any of them dying in the Purge? It would only stand to reason.

    Yes….they cannot die. hahaha It’s like watching mcguyver!!! You know he can’t die or there’s no show lol

  84. LostJunkie says:

    So isn’t that a little boring? There’s no way they are just going to stay in the 1970’s, obviously something must happen to get them back to the “present” time. One of them must turn the donkey wheel. Maybe Faraday is connected to this.

    BTW, I’ve loved the idea of the Island being Atlantis since it was first brought up.

  85. adapa1 says:

    What if the incident puts them all back in the future. And technically I don’t think they really HAVE to leave the 70’s to end the show. Maybe it’s like i said in comment 81 #9 but only its the 70’s

    I don’t like atlantis theory then because I’m a geek and I know WWWAAAAAAYY too much about it. I just thought it would have been too much info to add to the show. But its come to my attention that they don’t have explain anything about the “Atlantis” that we have come to know. They will simply give a face to the legend that know one even gives a shit about but us. In a stoner dream …. i saw there was an ‘atlantis’ spin to LOST. WTF else are they gonna do with with their fans (ha the same fans they sole from start trek! Only in 2009 can we be lucky enough to have brams revive geeks everywhere.)

  86. rachel says:

    ok so i this is alil off, but ben is always talking about a list…..well what if the list of people, are actually the people who are supposed to be in the future……see i think ben knows all along about these losties. he’s not stupid. he knows to build the runway, cuz one of the future losties tells him, i’m telling you, he already knows.

  87. adapa1 says:

    Qoutes found from my lost addiction:

    “Never once, did I ever, expect to feel the level of joy I felt tonight ….When I saw a kid get shot in the chest,point blank, by an arab man with a british accent.

    *still grinning*

    My neighbors may think I’m fucked up
    But I know the truth ‘thats a fucked up kid!’ “

  88. adapa1 says:

    Quotes found from my lost addiction

    “Damn it!!! Sometimes kids just have to be murdered mama…..specially dem damn time travlin ones. I reckon we chop up his body and bury the peices in every dharma station jus to make sure dis lil fucker don come back and trick us inna stabbin ourselves an shit

  89. adapa1 says:

    m@ wrote:

    perhaps Ben surviving a gun shot wound to the heart/chest and being left for dead is what finally convinces Richard and/or Jacob that Ben is somehow ’special’ to this island, giving Richard and the hostiles a reason to finally accept Ben as one of them. So what we perceive as Sayid trying to change the future by killing Ben in the past, is actually destiny playing out before our very eyes.

    wow!!!! i think you’re 100% dead on!!!

  90. DharmaGreg says:

    So glad that we got a charactor centric episode after all these others and so glad that it was centered around Sayid. He really is good at killing people, but I think that he should have put a few more rounds into little Ben. I don’t think he’s dead.

    And of course there’s someone in Dharmaville making LSD. I’m willing to bet that there’s some sort of “free love” deal going on too.

    I saw a couple people posted about someone being inside the flaming van. Can anybody back this up? I’m probably the only one on here watching this show with rabbit ears…

    I also can’t believe that Saywer voted to kill Sayid. Anyone think that maybe something else is going on. Maybe he sent in little Ben as a backup plan?

    Radzinski is pissing me off pretty regularly. I doubt he survives this season…

  91. joe says:

    i’m really surprised at the number of people in this forum of die hard lost-watchers who believe that a) ben is dead, and that b) we are entering a new timeline.

    there is ONE timeline, folks. we’re are literally getting pieces of the puzzle that snap into place – and the picture of the puzzle is not changing. even desmond, while he is able to affect some changes, is still affecting changes to pieces of the puzzle that have not yet been put into place.

    ben’s father was NOT in the burning dharma van. we SAW him die in 1992 from the gas during the purge. i repeat, the TIMELINE IS NOT CHANGING.

  92. mcotter says:

    [quote comment=”324498″]So isn’t that a little boring? There’s no way they are just going to stay in the 1970’s, obviously something must happen to get them back to the “present” time. One of them must turn the donkey wheel. Maybe Faraday is connected to this.

    BTW, I’ve loved the idea of the Island being Atlantis since it was first brought up.[/quote]

    I think it is quite plausable that our losties may die in the 70s because who says that they can’t die in the past, the island is not in the same time or space as the rest of the world, so they can technically die while they are still children in the real world, and it works perfectly with the old theory that two of our losties are adam and eve i don’t think they will die in the purge but i don’t think we will be going back to the present. The only reason i want to see us go back to the 00s is to se Henry Gale.

  93. mcotter says:

    [quote comment=”324525″]

    ben’s father was NOT in the burning dharma van. we SAW him die in 1992 from the gas during the purge. i repeat, the TIMELINE IS NOT CHANGING.[/quote]

    cannot agree more and everyone is asking why have the oceanic 6 go back, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO, it is their fate, they have to go back in 07 because they have to commit the actions that technically they already have done. Sayid is the first person who got off the island that has definitley been very much involved in the islands past, so the question isn’t why they have to go back its why did Ben and Hawking and Locke have all these stupid end of world, save the rest of your people, protect from Widmore reasons to get the o6 back, if that is the timeline and it is unchangable ie fate, then why were any of the worried fate sorted it all out

  94. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”324498″]So isn’t that a little boring? There’s no way they are just going to stay in the 1970’s, obviously something must happen to get them back to the “present” time. One of them must turn the donkey wheel. Maybe Faraday is connected to this.

    BTW, I’ve loved the idea of the Island being Atlantis since it was first brought up.[/quote]
    Yes, that would be boring–and if you go with the current timeline stuff (that I ascribe to at any rate) YES they can die in the 70’s.

    The 70’s already happened, and whatever happened, happened, but our peop’s personal birth-to-death journey landed them back in the 70’s AFTER they were already on the Island in 04, so they are still on their own timeline, and are at risk of death.

    Their deaths would not change anything about what happened in 04, but their actions may very well have some cause/effect consequences for their future (past) selves.

    Like Sayid shooting Ben–perhaps pushing a smart, abused kid over an edge of darkness. Not Sayid’s intention! But there you go… When they meet again, Ben sees his would-be killer, and irony of ironies–has some fun messing with the guy.

  95. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”324504″]ok so i this is alil off, but ben is always talking about a list…..well what if the list of people, are actually the people who are supposed to be in the future……see i think ben knows all along about these losties. he’s not stupid. he knows to build the runway, cuz one of the future losties tells him, i’m telling you, he already knows.[/quote]
    Interesting! That might be true–but I think it was Jacob who told them to build the runway in 04–so it could be that whoever Jacob is be the one who wanted the lists, and is orchestrating events to go the ‘right’ way. Whatever that way is.

  96. Tasha says:

    Again, I am going to agree with the whole, Ben is going to survive this and be “special.” Thing I don’t get, is he thinks Sayid is a hostile, so you would think he would want revenge on the hostiles. Another thing is, he was watching Sayid and Jin have their little conversation and it was obvious they knew eachother so little Ben’s wheels must have been turning at that point. He may SAVE the survivors because he KNOWS or thinks they are in cahoots with the hostiles. Sayid was just a hostile gone bad???

    Anyway, none of that probably made sense. I have too many wheels in my own head turning.

    The blog seems slow this week. Where is everyone…like Hammer? Where is his input??? I need answers!

  97. Tasha says:

    Ths may have already been discussed, but I missed last week’s thread. So I got the impression Etha was a hostile. I mean I figured he killed off Dharma. Sooooo, how is Ethan Horace’s and Amy’s kid? We know he killed Horace. Or did he let Ethan survive? Which means he didn’t kill EVERYONE in Dharma. So we may still get to meet Annie soon lol.

  98. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment=”324492″]OK, so for those saying that Ben can’t possibly be dead because we’ve seen him in the “future” as an adult, wouldn’t that also mean that none of the Losties we’re seeing in the 1970’s can die in Dharmaville in the 1970’s either? Meaning, we have nothing to worry about as far as any of them dying in the Purge? It would only stand to reason.[/quote]

    Not true… sorry I disagree. First of all there is only one timeline. The trick is that everything is happening at the same time… in other words there is no past present and future. Those 3 concepts are only terms that apply to the individual observer. I have been saying this for a while and I am glad to see some vindication. This whole concept is based on Einstein’s theory of relativity. There are several theories that stand today based on the theory of relativity that try to explain how exactly that can be true but none have been proven as of yet. However, that does not change the fact that Einstein’s theory of relativity IS proven in this regard. If you want to understand it more you might want to read up on frame dragging and time dilation. Anyways, the losties that we currently see on the island can be killed and that does not change the timeline. The reason is that the losties we see on the island are their 30 to 40 year old versions of themselves. Somewhere on the mainland there are little version of them that have yet to grow up and fulfill their destiny of getting to the island (if these versions were killed then that changes the future). The losties on the island can die because from their perspective (their individual observer perspective) they have already lived through all the future, post 1977 to 2007, so that for them is their past and it has already happened. I know that is very confusing but I am 100% convinced that it is correct as to this show’s interpretation of time travel with no paradox. Great show and I am very excited to see how some other events turn out. I will also put my name in the hat for the Ben is not dead yet group. Ben has to survive this because from Ben’s perspective (individual observer’s perspective) he has not yet lived out the events between 1977 and 2007 so he must still fulfill his destiny. I also think it is extremely ironic that Sayid thinks he is saving the future by killing Ben, but he is actually most likely creating the impetus for Ben to become an other… awesome!

  99. mcotter says:

    There is just so much going on at the moment, recently in my comments i’ve started thinking that the 70s is where the show will now stay and possibly u know all the way to the early 90s for the purge, but I seem to have forgotton about Locke, Ben, Lapidus and Sun in the present with the new survivors of the new place crash/landing we have no idea what their significance may be yet,ahhhh. Will Locke eventually lead the present others?

  100. shellonius funk says:

    i can make a case for WHH, but i can also see how/why that may not be true.
    what i really wanna know is: since the island is always moving (in time/space?), is it the 70s to the rest of the world? or is it “present day”?

  101. Mal says:

    Yes, the characters in 1977 can certainly die. We have not seen them when they are older; we have seen older Ben, so we know he cannot die.

    We also know he cannot die because he knows so much about the characters and he knows that he must manipulate them so that they can go back and play their role in past events on the island.

    As to the notion that “this has already happened, so why does it matter? Why are they worried that the characters might not get onto the island, because they know it happens”… the Losties get onto the island in the past as a result of the efforts of all of those involved. Ben has to bust his butt to convince them all to go back. Yes, he knows it works out, but he also knows that it works out because of his efforts.

    My question is… why is that old man with the truth serum the Dharma’s Sayid?

  102. Leslie says:

    [quote comment=”324363″]Ok. So Ben said he met Albert 3 years ago, right? That would have been 3 years ago for Sawyer and them too, RIGHT? So what’s up with that? What’s up with him meeting Ben and having long hair and when he met Sawyer he had his regular haircut? Hmmmm, I smell something fishy going on? lol[/quote]

    I think Ben said he met Alpert FOUR years ago and I guess he cleaned up a big before meeting Sawyer et. al. a year later.

  103. Mal says:

    Hmmm… “Will Locke eventually lead the present others?”

    This is a good speculation. It seems to me that the time will not stay in the 1977. It inevitably has to flash forward to a post 2008 date, because that is the future of the island, and that is what Ben, Widmore, Farraday’s mother, and all the other floating heads are tyring to influence (they may not all be playing on the same team…) But regardless, the Losties crash in 2004, because of that are brought back to 1977, play a role in the Others/ Dharma dynamic… at some point their actions need to influence the future. I’m thinking it’s Locke and possibly Jack that have leadership roles in the future. Don’t know what that is yet, or who they lead… but they seem to be chosen somehow.

  104. Mal says:

    Hmmm… “Will Locke eventually lead the present others?”

    This is a good speculation. It seems to me that the time will not stay in the 1977. It inevitably has to flash forward to a post 2008 date, because that is the future of the island, and that is what Ben, Widmore, Farraday’s mother, and all the other floating heads are tyring to influence (they may not all be playing on the same team…) But regardless, the Losties crash in 2004, because of that are brought back to 1977, play a role in the Others/ Dharma dynamic… at some point their actions need to influence the future. I’m thinking it’s Locke and possibly Jack that have leadership roles in the future. Don’t know what that is yet, or who they lead… but they seem to be chosen somehow.

  105. LOST816 says:

    I kinda think that if the past/future cannot be changed, then this season will be just filling in the blanks which is interesting too. However can anybody explain to me the origin of the compass? It seems to me that this is a paradox as it always existed in a time loop between Locke and Richard. Does this paradox mean that other paradoxes are possible such as changing the past/future? Could there be multiple timelines/realities that sometimes converge eg compass at hand over?

  106. shellonius funk says:

    mal…he’s dharma’s sayid because he knows how to get answers from people (against their will).

  107. shellonius funk says:

    ok….slightly unrelated to tonight’s ep, but this article came out about charlotte’s real age.
    so LOSTpedia isn’t up to speed yet.

    http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/03/lost-exclusive.html

  108. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment=”324359″]No Ben’s dad didnt die in the purge. He burned in van.. Remember when Hurley and Sawyer found the van with a skeleton inside? The man’s Dharma jumper said “Workman”… or am I mixing up my dead Dharma people??[/quote]

    Yes..but what about Jack now?? He’s a WORKMAN too..

  109. shellonius funk says:

    the skeleton uniform said Roger Workman.

  110. Mal says:

    Another thing… we know that Ben lives because he knows that Sayid enjoys killing.. something Sayid tells Ben directly, something Ben knows to tell Sayid in the events leading up to Sayid’s return to the island.

    Brilliant!

  111. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment=”324545″][quote comment=”324492″]OK, so for those saying that Ben can’t possibly be dead because we’ve seen him in the “future” as an adult…[/quote]

    I will also put my name in the hat for the Ben is not dead yet group. Ben has to survive this because from Ben’s perspective (individual observer’s perspective) he has not yet lived out the events between 1977 and 2007 so he must still fulfill his destiny. [/quote]

    I agree that Sayid may in fact have created the impetus for Ben to be bad and hate everything originally associated with the DI, however, he believes Sayid to be a Hostile.

    I also believe that perhaps Ben is dead, and the island knew that would happen because he is in this weird “middle world” with Sun and Lapidus. So..perhaps he is dead and Christian is going to help Sun and Lapidus on their journey to get back to LIVING.

  112. Tara says:

    Hi all. This is my first post. I read every week but never thought I had a theory worth mentioning or that hasn’t been mentioned before.

    How ever I just have a few thought for today. Remember when we saw Ferraday working in Darma as a miner. We saw the glow of the donkey wheel. Remember too Sawyer said Ferraday isn’t with us. I think he’s off the island and is with Widmore. What this cause and effect would have I’m not sure. I do however agree that is is either a circle time line or that spiral time line. And the island will choose what will happen. Who live and who dies for “it’s” will.

    I also think the losties will get back to 07 before the end of the season. Possibly with the help of Sun.

    I agree with post 77. Everything that happened to Ben was destiny playing out before our eye. It has happened before.

    With regard to Sayid and Ben on the plane. I think Ben was surprised that he was there as if it is once again the Island at work. Ilana isn’t working for Ben or for Widmore. Just Destiny.

    Thanks for your time.

    T

  113. SES says:

    I think young Ben is dead. The writers have done this to pave the way for older Ben to travel back to the 70s. If older Ben traveled back to the 70s and young Ben were still alive, that would be like the two rabbits getting too close to eachother from the DARMA film.

  114. SES says:

    “The writers have done this to pave the way for older Ben to travel back to the 70s.”

    Sorry. I should have said “I think the writers have done this…”

  115. Mal says:

    SES – I don’t think that Ben necessarily needs to get back to 1977.

  116. Frank says:

    But, if Ben does die in the 70’s he cannot live to come back to the 70’s. Either he’s dead and some other reality is created or he lives to fulfill the “one” way it can happen.

  117. SES says:

    That’s what I get confused about. If young Ben is dead, what happens to the older Ben that’s laying on the cot on the little island? Does he just disappear like Charlotte did?

  118. Frank says:

    One would suppose. Also, things would change dramatically if there were no Ben doing the things he was doing, unless there is course correction and then someone else would be “Ben.” However, my assumption is that Ben is not dead; or, is brought back to life through circumstances not unlike John Locke.

  119. SES says:

    PJ Sander, Rita, Hammer, DocH……?

    Did you defect to the little island?

  120. Tasha says:

    So I was thinking, I know some have said that Jack may fix Ben. I didn’t see anyone mention that maybe this is wy Jack comes back. Ummm, how do I explain this….

    To make it short, Jack performs the “miracle.” Maybe Jack’s destiny is to always make sure Ben is ok. Maybe that’s his purpose in life and he don’t even know it. TO always save Ben’s life.

    Or also, maybe Ben knew about his tumor before hand and set up the first crash, to get the “miracle” dr to save his life. He knew that jack wouldn’t just let him die.

    I don’t know. I am so LOST!

  121. wallyp says:

    The only way I could see Ben being dead, would be due to the fact that he was not supposed to come back to the island. So the fact that he was on that plane, caused the island to erase him from existance, in its own unique ironic way (the island has a pretty dark sense of humor,no?)

    I’m leaning more towards Ben not being dead though…

  122. ShelbyDee says:

    Should we be concerned that Hammer, PJ and Circus Mom aren’t commenting? Did they hop their own Oceanic flight to the future to unravel this mess? I don’t get the whole Lost experience unless I hear their opinions. Please you guys: turn the FDW and come back to us!

  123. Pterradon says:

    Wasn’t Eko killed by the black smoke when he admitted who he was and said he wasn’t sorry? And didn’t Sayid just do the same thing by saying he was a killer and shooting little Ben? I wonder if this means that Sayid will be the major player killed off and that the smoke monster will do it.

  124. Mal says:

    So what will Sayid do now? Does he join with the Others and help with the Purge in the future? I wonder what role the other Losties play in the Purge… my guess is that they bring positive results for the Others, which is why Ben et al try so hard to get them back.

  125. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324600″]Should we be concerned that Hammer, PJ and Circus Mom aren’t commenting? Did they hop their own Oceanic flight to the future to unravel this mess? I don’t get the whole Lost experience unless I hear their opinions. Please you guys: turn the FDW and come back to us![/quote]
    ______

    Ummm yeah. What’s up with that? PJ posted at the beginning before the show. Maybe they are still sitting in front of the TV with their jaws dropped? LOL. If they found a way to get to the island, they better share!

  126. shellonius funk says:

    pterradon…i was thinking that too; that smoky kills sayid.

    i asked questions earlier that no one answered…even though you’re all reading all the posts, right?! ;-)…
    is the rest of the world in the 70s? the island IS always moving.
    i dunno. i assume not, but that hurts my brain even more.

  127. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”324605″][quote comment=”324600″]Should we be concerned that Hammer, PJ and Circus Mom aren’t commenting? Did they hop their own Oceanic flight to the future to unravel this mess? I don’t get the whole Lost experience unless I hear their opinions. Please you guys: turn the FDW and come back to us![/quote]
    ______

    Ummm yeah. What’s up with that? PJ posted at the beginning before the show. Maybe they are still sitting in front of the TV with their jaws dropped? LOL. If they found a way to get to the island, they better share![/quote]
    *********************************

    seriously!

    Gotta say I’m baffled by this myself. Ya’ll must be crunching your brains big time…
    Or are you all just pissed off at the group? . I noticed a little animosity at the top of the thread regarding spoilers. FYI I don’t go for spoilers ever. If my theories are spot on its only because I’m a genius. (I told you guys Sayid was making Ben Salad sandwiches!)

    C’mon theres work to be done!

    I’m gonna start spewing my crazy half cooked theories all over the place, like this gem:

    I think Razinsky might be a spy himself, Infiltrating just like Sawyer and co…I’m very curious about him. Especially since I saw that 1980 copywrite on the darma tapes on you tube (which I’m only guessing is legit cannon at this point…anybody wanna help me out here?)

  128. Frank says:

    I dont remember the videos. What leads you to think Radzinsky’s a spy? Interesting thought!

  129. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment=”324606″]pterradon…i was thinking that too; that smoky kills sayid.

    i asked questions earlier that no one answered…even though you’re all reading all the posts, right?! ;-)…
    is the rest of the world in the 70s? the island IS always moving.
    i dunno. i assume not, but that hurts my brain even more.[/quote]

    I don’t think the island is in it’s own time. Whenever it happens to be, the rest of the world is with it.

    I think little Ben is dead, but that he will be brought back, like Locke. I can’t wait to see who will do it. Who was it that brought Locke back after he was shot by Ben?

  130. Frank says:

    Locke didnt die when Ben shot him – but Walt came and told him he had more work to do… And he got up!

  131. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”324610″]I dont remember the videos. What leads you to think Radzinsky’s a spy? Interesting thought![/quote]

    Well I dont have a real concise backing for this theory, other than the fact that we know Razinsky stays in the swan when every one else dies. He’s not an Other, he just stays inside the swan for years with Kelvin,pushing the button until he blows his brains out. He is obviously pretty focused on this model. I think he may be there for this purpose alone, to construct the swan which Dharma doesn’t know yet will serve its purpose of holding the “button” but he could. Maybe “spy” isn’t the right word, but I could see him having different information that the rest of Dharma dont. Like Future stuff. I’m waiting to see how Dharma gets involved with time. …Like I said, half cooked theory.

  132. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324615″]Locke didnt die when Ben shot him – but Walt came and told him he had more work to do… And he got up![/quote]

    ___________-

    Wouldn’t it be some crap if Locke shows up and says, get up Ben, you got work to do.

  133. Frank says:

    [quote comment=”324619″][quote comment=”324615″]Locke didnt die when Ben shot him – but Walt came and told him he had more work to do… And he got up![/quote]

    ___________-

    Wouldn’t it be some crap if Locke shows up and says, get up Ben, you got work to do.[/quote]

    It sure would! Or what about if smokey came and said that!?!?!!

  134. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324616″][quote comment=”324610″]I dont remember the videos. What leads you to think Radzinsky’s a spy? Interesting thought![/quote]

    Well I dont have a real concise backing for this theory, other than the fact that we know Razinsky stays in the swan when every one else dies. He’s not an Other, he just stays inside the swan for years with Kelvin,pushing the button until he blows his brains out. He is obviously pretty focused on this model. I think he may be there for this purpose alone, to construct the swan which Dharma doesn’t know yet will serve its purpose of holding the “button” but he could. Maybe “spy” isn’t the right word, but I could see him having different information that the rest of Dharma dont. Like Future stuff. I’m waiting to see how Dharma gets involved with time. …Like I said, half cooked theory.[/quote]

    ________

    ok so we got Razinsky and Ethan that are part of Dharma but don’t get killed. Isn’t it wierd how he was in the Swan with Kelvin. Kelvin knows him and he knows Sayid, yet Kelvin and Sayid never meet on the island. Connections!!!!

  135. helen says:

    [quote comment=”324589″]That’s what I get confused about. If young Ben is dead, what happens to the older Ben that’s laying on the cot on the little island? Does he just disappear like Charlotte did?[/quote]

    I speculate that young Ben does die and in the concurrent timeline/dimension, old Ben dies at the same moment – when Sun whacks him with the oar. Farraday has already shown us that memories can be altered when he went to the hatch and “forced” a memory to the future Desmond.

    Can this work in both directions? Therefore, everyone’s memory of Ben would be altered.

    And is Sun the lead Dharma doctor’s baby that we’ve seen. This would be relate to the same reason Ben could not travel back to 1977 with the losties b/c he was young Ben then and the rabbits would be getting too close.

    Where did Farraday go anyway?

  136. Frank says:

    [quote comment=”324623″][quote comment=”324589″]That’s what I get confused about. If young Ben is dead, what happens to the older Ben that’s laying on the cot on the little island? Does he just disappear like Charlotte did?[/quote]

    I speculate that young Ben does die and in the concurrent timeline/dimension, old Ben dies at the same moment – when Sun whacks him with the oar. Farraday has already shown us that memories can be altered when he went to the hatch and “forced” a memory to the future Desmond.

    Can this work in both directions? Therefore, everyone’s memory of Ben would be altered.

    And is Sun the lead Dharma doctor’s baby that we’ve seen. This would be relate to the same reason Ben could not travel back to 1977 with the losties b/c he was young Ben then and the rabbits would be getting too close.

    Where did Farraday go anyway?[/quote]
    Why would Ben be in the infirmary if he were dead? Maybe Locke kills him at the same time? I just dont think that’s the end of Ben’s story…

    That would mean child Lapidus is also on the 70’s island?

  137. Frank says:

    Still trying to figure out the quote thingy ;-)

    Why would Ben be in the infirmary if he were dead? Maybe Locke kills him at the same time? I just dont think that’s the end of Ben’s story…

    That would mean child Lapidus is also on the 70’s island?

  138. Mia says:

    Flyboy – your comment #98 makes sense to me – love it!

    It’s nice to see a lot of new folks on here!

  139. Passenger 8 says:

    Okay. I am thinking out loud now.

    Like Locke Ben will recover from the gunshot wound. This may be why Ben shot Locke in the first place. Ben will join the others and like Locke will have to prove himself by killing his father. He then becomes the leader of the others. Even though Sayid thought he was changing the future by killing Ben, this is another example of how time will course correct itself.

    Faraday is running around the island trying to figure this whole thing out. This season ends with the purge. Then Faraday goes back and turns the donkey wheel. The island goes back to near present time and Faraday gets zapped back to the desert. Widmore sees Faraday with his cameras and brings him back to Oxford and funds his work. Back on the island the 2007 group and the 1977 group meet.

  140. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment=”324627″]Okay. I am thinking out loud now.

    Like Locke Ben will recover from the gunshot wound. This may be why Ben shot Locke in the first place. Ben will join the others and like Locke will have to prove himself by killing his father. He then becomes the leader of the others. Even though Sayid thought he was changing the future by killing Ben, this is another example of how time will course correct itself.

    Faraday is running around the island trying to figure this whole thing out. This season ends with the purge. Then Faraday goes back and turns the donkey wheel. The island goes back to near present time and Faraday gets zapped back to the desert. Widmore sees Faraday with his cameras and brings him back to Oxford and funds his work. Back on the island the 2007 group and the 1977 group meet.[/quote]

    I’m glad you thought out loud. I like it. So while young Ben is healed and is an Other at heart, he stays with Darma for years until he initiates the purge. Why does he wait so long?

  141. katesFriend says:

    If young Ben does survive, perhaps this is why he says(believes?) he was “born” on the island. Maybe he considers this day as his rebirth?

  142. Flyboy says:

    thank you Mia. I have more that I will post as soon as I can

  143. DannL75 says:

    Just a quick point. Has anyone noticed that on the ABC website, the official picture has changed? Where Charlotte was in the beginning of the season, Jin is now standing in that spot. Kinda off point, but thought I would mention it.

  144. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324629″]If young Ben does survive, perhaps this is why he says(believes?) he was “born” on the island. Maybe he considers this day as his rebirth?[/quote]
    __________

    Like Jacob takes over his body or something? resurrection? Man, the possiblities!!!

  145. Heidi says:

    Sorry I just realized that violated rule number 4 on this blog!

  146. shellonius funk says:

    maybe one reason he says he’s born on the island is because his dad instilled in him that he “killed his mom”…in that she didn’t survive his birth.
    man…roger linus is a douchebag…and i can’t imagine how bad things were BEFORE he decided to come to the island.

    ben seeing jin and sayid talking may have let ben think that there is another group of dharmites that wish to join the hostiles. we know ethan goes with him at some point. and the fact is, there IS another group of dharmites wanting to be hostiles:
    our 815 survivors.

  147. Tasha says:

    – edited
    __________

    I don’t think we are supposed to discuss spoilers here:( I can’t believe I just read that! Now the wheels are turning. I wish I could go back and erase that from my mind!

  148. Passenger 8 says:

    Just a thought.
    We know 1977 (teen) Ben and 2007 (40’s) Ben are on the island in seperate times. Then when 1977 Ben gets shot in the chest a scar should appear on 2007 Ben’s chest. This would be similar to when 2004 Desmond had the memory of the encounter with Faraday that happened years earlier.

  149. Amber says:

    ummm PJ, Hammer, Rita, Circus Mom???? where did you guys go? Its wierd reading these post’s and not seeing your names. Im gonna need you to come back now….what happened to hammers bedtime for bonzo?

  150. shellonius funk says:

    [quote comment=”324639″]ummm PJ, Hammer, Rita, Circus Mom???? where did you guys go? Its wierd reading these post’s and not seeing your names. Im gonna need you to come back now….what happened to hammers bedtime for bonzo?[/quote]
    _____

    maybe they flashed…

  151. silentlucidity says:

    [quote comment=”324431″][quote comment=”324420″]So was the scene with the young Sayid intended to be more or less a retelling of the scene of the young Eko back in season 2? Was it intended to further show a connection between the various characters on the show?[/quote]
    _____________________

    I was thinking at first it was really similar, but not sure the significance:([/quote]

  152. silentlucidity says:

    [quote comment=”324431″][quote comment=”324420″]So was the scene with the young Sayid intended to be more or less a retelling of the scene of the young Eko back in season 2? Was it intended to further show a connection between the various characters on the show?[/quote]
    _____________________

    I was thinking at first it was really similar, but not sure the significance:([/quote]

    As soon as that scene passed where Sayid rings the chickens neck my husband says. “Hmmm I think he’s going to kill young Ben”. I do think Ben is just injured though.

  153. Flyboy says:

    Now on to Blackholes….

    There are several different types of blackholes even some that are called Whiteholes but what is important here is their properties….

    1. Event Horizon – a border that surrounds a blackhole. Once an ‘observer’ crosses it they can never return, they are lost forever.

    2. Ergosphere – an area just outside the event horizon. If an observer crosses into this area they will become ‘frame dragged’ through spacetime along with the blackhole.

    The eneregy source on the island must be a black/or whitehole and that is why it is ‘spinning’ or moving through time constantly and requires certain windows in spacetime to travel to it. The island and surrounding water must be the ergosphere area (that is why Jin got dragged along, the freighter must have been just far enough away to be outside of this area and that is why it did not get dragged).

    Now, the interesting part……
    Could Jacob simply be a guy who got to close to the energy source and crossed the event horizon. Since he is on the other side now maybe he can see the whole picture and what must be done and how it must happen to save the world, hence the list. Since he can never return he must use proxies (Christian, Ben, Locke, etc.) to communicate through. Maybe when Jacob crossed the event horizon Alpert was there?

    Regardless, some have asked what time the outside world us in. Since they are on the outside of the ‘ergosphere’ they are not effected by the ‘frame dragging’ through spacetime so my bet is that they are in what we would call normal time from our observer’s frame of reference. In other words they are not back in 1977.

    I have more if anyone is interested….

  154. shellonius funk says:

    we’re all interested; that’s why we’re here.
    keep on…i’m with you…

  155. Flyboy says:

    I do not believe that the island keeps you from travelling to a time where you already exist. I think that was shown by the two #15 rabbits being in the same place and halliwax freaking out and sayin get them away from each other…..

    That brings up an interesting point….. what are the consequences for such an event?

  156. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment=”324643″][quote comment=”324639″]ummm PJ, Hammer, Rita, Circus Mom???? where did you guys go? Its wierd reading these post’s and not seeing your names. Im gonna need you to come back now….what happened to hammers bedtime for bonzo?[/quote]
    _____

    maybe they flashed…[/quote]
    _______________________________________-
    One of the mentioned people is my sibling and is at work. He/she will laugh when he/she gets home and reads this. So… one of the four mentioned is alive and well and probably itching to post. I even visited him/her at work today so I know he/she didn’t jump on a plane and head for the little island. All is well.

  157. shellonius funk says:

    the fact that the rabbits DID show up together makes me think that you CAN encounter yourself…tho i don’t think they will do that on this show.

    i am curious about richard and sawyer’s current relationship…they reached an understanding 3 years ago. what if our survivors partake in the purge (on the hostiles’ side)!

  158. Mal says:

    [quote comment=”324638″]Just a thought.
    We know 1977 (teen) Ben and 2007 (40’s) Ben are on the island in seperate times. Then when 1977 Ben gets shot in the chest a scar should appear on 2007 Ben’s chest. This would be similar to when 2004 Desmond had the memory of the encounter with Faraday that happened years earlier.[/quote]

    I think Ben must have had a scar the entire time. I do not think that this is a memory that will suddenly flash into Ben’s mind… I think it’s already happened in his past and it has been a driving force in all of his actions since his youth.

    Also, Passenger 8 – you theorize that Farady will turn the donkey wheel after the purge and wind up in Tunisia, then he will be found by Widmore and Widmore will fund his research. However, Faraday’s days as a physicist came before he came to the island. Meaning, say he was 27 when he came to the island (just a random age), he is 30 in 1977. Even if he leaves the island in 1977… he will still be 30+. His age does not rewind. He may be traveling through time, but it doesn’t man that he gets older or younger…

  159. Heidi says:

    Tasha

    I know I just realized it after I typed it. So sorry. Pretend I made it all up

  160. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”324654″]Tasha

    I know I just realized it after I typed it. So sorry. Pretend I made it all up[/quote]
    __________

    Lol. I actually had already forgotten.

  161. JasonS says:

    Hi… I’m new to the blog, love the show, like the chat I’ve read so far, etc etc. Appreciate everyone’s comments! I’ll try to comment regularly if I can.

    The first thing I thought when the show ended was “there’s no way Ben is dead”. Ben dying goes against the mythology of Lost: that history can’t be changed by a character like Sayid (maybe Desmond) only course corrected, and that everyone has a place to be in. Although Ben was in the distance for the conversation between Jin and Sayid, he didn’t seem aware of their conversation or that they actually knew each other. It will be interesting to see how Ben will come to realize Sayid was not an Other, and the Others in fact did not just try to kill him.

    It was great to the MacCutcheon Whiskey make a return in this episode. Expensive, but cost less than I expected!

    Other discussed theories –

    Shooting Ben more than once: Doesn’t seem like Sayid’s style to leave the door hanging open. He pretty much kills everything. There’s irony in the fact that Ben calls Sayid a killer, but potentially on the persona Sayid can’t kill is Ben. It would be funny to imagine the DI’s reaction when they came upon a kid riddled with bullets and Jin passed out ten feet away!

    Ben recovering like Locke: This situation is a little different. Locke said the bullet passed through, and he would’ve been dead had his kidney still been there. Ben was shot square in the chest to my recollection. You could probably convince me that Ben didn’t have a heart…

  162. shellonius funk says:

    maybe it just perforates his lung…like what happened with the marshall. i don’t think he’s dead.

  163. Mal says:

    [quote comment=”324659″]maybe it just perforates his lung…like what happened with the marshall. i don’t think he’s dead.[/quote]

    Agreed. Or, if he is dead he won’t go away. If he dies and comes back via some island witchcraft, or some medical intervention, I will not be surprised. But there is no way he will die and be dead. There is no way it can fit with the story. I think that a 13-year-old Ben shot in the chest fits perfectly with his adult character. You can tell by his mannerisms that old Ben has had a tainted past, and though this can be explained by an abusive father, a childhood gunshot wound makes perfect sense.

  164. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment=”324379″]Another bit I didn’t understand – Sayid’s speech to Sawyer, where he claimed to realize what his purpose was. If at that moment he was talking about killing Ben, why wouldn’t he have taken Sawyer up on his offer to escape? How could Sayid know that somehow in the next few hours before his execution would be taking place, there would be some other way for him to get out of the prison cell? Seemed too contrived to me.[/quote]

    Didn’t young Ben imply that he would be helping Sayid when he told him “If you are patient, you will get out too”?

    Maybe Sayid knew Ben would come to free him, and then he would have access to kill him.

  165. Arbitration101 says:

    What ‘magic phrase’ makes Ben snap into a blind rage?

    A more accurate translation of Ben’s encounter with the Tunisian horsemen prove it.

    “أنت أبدا جعلتني سندويتش من قبل”…

    (you never made me a sandwich before)

  166. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment=”324380″] Crazy thing is, why did Ben want them to go back? He obviously isn’t faring too well now![/quote]

    I have a theory on why Ben wanted all of them to go back: maybe he “remembers” them all since he obviously met them when he was a kid, and maybe the things that they do are essential to Ben’s eventual rise to power over the Hostiles?

  167. helen says:

    [quote comment=”324624″][quote comment=”324623″][quote comment=”324589″]That’s what I get confused about. If young Ben is dead, what happens to the older Ben that’s laying on the cot on the little island? Does he just disappear like Charlotte did?[/quote]

    I speculate that young Ben does die and in the concurrent timeline/dimension, old Ben dies at the same moment – when Sun whacks him with the oar. Farraday has already shown us that memories can be altered when he went to the hatch and “forced” a memory to the future Desmond.

    Can this work in both directions? Therefore, everyone’s memory of Ben would be altered.

    And is Sun the lead Dharma doctor’s baby that we’ve seen. This would be relate to the same reason Ben could not travel back to 1977 with the losties b/c he was young Ben then and the rabbits would be getting too close.

    Where did Farraday go anyway?[/quote]
    Why would Ben be in the infirmary if he were dead? Maybe Locke kills him at the same time? I just dont think that’s the end of Ben’s story…

    That would mean child Lapidus is also on the 70’s island?[/quote]

    Thanks for the correction – that Ben appears on the cot _after_ Sun whacks him with the oar.

    The Lapidus question could be answered either way – he wasn’t on the island or the plane at the time of flt 815 crash?

  168. Mal says:

    [quote comment=”324668″][quote comment=”324379″]Another bit I didn’t understand – Sayid’s speech to Sawyer, where he claimed to realize what his purpose was. If at that moment he was talking about killing Ben, why wouldn’t he have taken Sawyer up on his offer to escape? How could Sayid know that somehow in the next few hours before his execution would be taking place, there would be some other way for him to get out of the prison cell? Seemed too contrived to me.[/quote]

    Didn’t young Ben imply that he would be helping Sayid when he told him “If you are patient, you will get out too”?

    Maybe Sayid knew Ben would come to free him, and then he would have access to kill him.[/quote]

    Yep!! I agree! I think they were scheming and planning, those two.

  169. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment=”324398″]Much has been written about the time line. Is it straight or are there curves? By my way of thinking, the time line is really a circle.

    It’s like the chicken and the egg.. which came first?

    Assume the theory that Ben is just wounded after being shot by Sayid, and is still alive. Ben goes on to survive the purge, align with the Others, and meet up with the Oceanic castaways. He gets off the island and convinces Sayid to start his killing spree.

    Sayid then grows to despise Ben and realize all of Ben’s sins. Sayid returns to the island in 1977 and, considering what Ben did in the future, Sayid decides he should try to kill the teenage Ben while he can.

    But teen Ben survives. He goes on to survive the purge, align with the Others, and meet up with the Oceanic castaways. Perhaps he has an animosity toward Sayid because he knew he was shot by Sayid and that’s why he enlists him on the killing spree.

    But there’s no beginning to the story. It’s cyclical. That’s what’s called a paradox.

    Makes sense to me anyway…[/quote]

    I agree with you 100% — there are lots of things like that coming into the story-line this year.

    One thing I wonder is whether Sayid’s attempt to murder Ben shapes Ben to become the evil guy he ends up as! So Sayid tries to kill Ben because of the atrocities he knew he would commit, and drives Ben to become the type of person who would commit those atrocities! Or if his murder attempt ends up helping Ben ultimately become the leader of the Others, which enables him to become the megalomaniac that he is as an adult! What irony that would be! By trying to destroy Ben, Sayid may be inadvertantly “making” him.

    That is the same type of irony with Daniel’s attempt to save Charlotte: he warned her that if she returned to the island she would die to try to protect her, but this warning it turned out piqued her curiosity and caused her to want to come back: by trying to save her he doomed her.

    That might be one of the key time-travel related themes emerging: that “what happens, happens” and when you try to prevent something, you might actually be proving yourself to be the one who ultimately causes or at least enables it!

  170. LostJunkie says:

    About comment 120, I don’t think Ben could have possibly orchestrated the Oceanic crash in 2004 because in a later episode after the Pilot episode we saw Ben, in Dharmaville, reacting as the crash is taking place and quickly sending out orders to Ethan, etc, to get information. He clearly doesn’t know a plane was supposed to crash. I also think we’ve been shown that the Oceanic crash takes place because Desmond doesn’t input the numbers in time on that fateful day.

    About comments 129-130, Locke doesn’t die when Ben shoots him because he gets shot in the exact place where Locke is supposed to have a kidney. He only survived because of his previous act of kindness to give his kidney to his father. JasonS beat me to it in post 162.

    Comment 141…I love it! That absolutely would explain why Ben says he was born on the Island. He has been re-born on it after Sayid shoots him, and perhaps he really does die but somehow comes back. Could this mean, then, that Locke has also been “born” on the Island in 2007?

    And finally, I appreciate the posts about how the Losties can probably die in the 70’s because they are still living out their own timeline, etc. Good points.

  171. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”324625″]Still trying to figure out the quote thingy ;-) quote]

    All you need to do is hit the “Quote and Reply” next to the post #.

  172. LostGrrl says:

    See how easy? Jeez. Can’t do anything right! I’m really LOST.

  173. Tara says:

    I kind of think the losties will be out of there before the purge. Isn’t that like 15 years later. My bet is that before the end of this season they will be back in 07. We have too much of a story line to follow up with John.

  174. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment=”324623″]

    And is Sun the lead Dharma doctor’s baby that we’ve seen. This would be relate to the same reason Ben could not travel back to 1977 with the losties b/c he was young Ben then and the rabbits would be getting too close.

    [/quote]

    That’s what I was thinking too — makes a lot of sense!

  175. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment=”324672″][quote comment=”324668″][quote comment=”324379″]Another bit I didn’t understand – Sayid’s speech to Sawyer, where he claimed to realize what his purpose was. If at that moment he was talking about killing Ben, why wouldn’t he have taken Sawyer up on his offer to escape? How could Sayid know that somehow in the next few hours before his execution would be taking place, there would be some other way for him to get out of the prison cell? Seemed too contrived to me.[/quote]

    Didn’t young Ben imply that he would be helping Sayid when he told him “If you are patient, you will get out too”?

    Maybe Sayid knew Ben would come to free him, and then he would have access to kill him.[/quote]

    Yep!! I agree! I think they were scheming and planning, those two.[/quote]

    And that is why Sayid wouldn’t follow Sawyer’s lead, and yet would not tell Sawyer what he is up to: he knew Sawyer would not want him to kill young Ben

  176. Trixanna says:

    [quote comment=”324685″]removed[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    What happened to the “No Spoiler” rule? I’m outta here!

  177. Fast Eddie S says:

    First time. WattsDog ruined this reading. He was a Spoiler.
    I think that WHWH if someone has observed it or knows it happened. Ben somehow learns the losties stories, and knows what will happen right up until the losties and Ben separate on 316. After that there’s no one to tell him what happened. He falters in 2007.
    Since Ben knows of these events, through evesdropping or truth drugs, they have to happen. The filler around what he knows remains unknown until it is observed.
    So, Ben cannot die until 2007 no matter what crazy action he takes. He should be a wealthy man. Like Widmore…
    Ben’s list of Jack, Kate, Hurley and Ford-Sawyer, was a list of the people he knew were going to come back and tell him what’s up.
    We’re the observers.

  178. justme says:

    heidi, at least u u honest @ looking at spoilers… i no that there r people who r on this blog who ~pretend~ 2 b spoiler-free but predict way 2 precisely what will happen in an episode… everyone can b right @ 1 thing or another once in a while but no 1 can b ~perfectly~ accurate on a regular basis…

  179. katesFriend says:

    Heidi and Waltsdog: this is a no spoiler site for those of us who do EVERYTHING possible to avoid spoilers. For us, the fun is in NOT knowing.

    What is going on? I have been reading/commenting on this blog since Andreas and this has never happened! Where did everyone go and why are there spoilers that haven’t been deleted?

    Not trying to be rude, but this makes me sad :(

  180. achtungpv says:

    [quote comment=”324483″]

    9. Could it end with Desmond CHOOSING to press the button again to save the world?

    Buts its ok becuase pennys there with him? Is destiny the finale question for them all?

    “this IS more than an island. It IS our fate to stay here. And we have no choice but to accept that, beacuase the only alternative is the same old numbers…and the same end of the world.[/quote]

    I posted on an older thread but I think Desmond will be the key. Faraday explained you can’t create another thread of time that’s against the rules. But that’s what’s happened, it’s why Ben’s daughter is killed and he doesn’t expect it…because he’s seen the future…of the other time thread.

    Desmond will have to once again turn the key and set things right and lose Penny & his son since they exist in the false time thread.

  181. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment=”324726″][quote comment=”324483″]

    I posted on an older thread but I think Desmond will be the key. Faraday explained you can’t create another thread of time that’s against the rules. But that’s what’s happened, it’s why Ben’s daughter is killed and he doesn’t expect it…because he’s seen the future…of the other time thread.

    Desmond will have to once again turn the key and set things right and lose Penny & his son since they exist in the false time thread.[/quote]

    why do you think penny can’t be there if they end up going back together?

  182. flgrl says:

    I was also wondering why things seemed to have changed (spoilers popping up, the “regulars” not participating, etc.) so I quickly scanned the end of the blog for last week. It seems that lots of heated words were exchanged and without trying to start things up again, I can certainly see why they’ve left. I believe I will have to follow suit, which makes me terribly sad.

  183. Eric says:

    Ok so this doesnt really have to do with this episode necessarily, but what happened to the enhanced episodes (the ones before the new episode each week with the commentary on the bottom)? I really like wathing them to fill me in on little things i missed. Have they done away with them or are they still on just at a different time?

  184. Nathan says:

    [quote comment=”324731″]I was also wondering why things seemed to have changed (spoilers popping up, the “regulars” not participating, etc.) so I quickly scanned the end of the blog for last week. It seems that lots of heated words were exchanged and without trying to start things up again, I can certainly see why they’ve left. I believe I will have to follow suit, which makes me terribly sad.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Hang in there. I bet they come back. They have posted here for years.

  185. I LUV this Show says:

    [quote comment=”324725″]Heidi and Waltsdog: this is a no spoiler site for those of us who do EVERYTHING possible to avoid spoilers. For us, the fun is in NOT knowing.

    What is going on? I have been reading/commenting on this blog since Andreas and this has never happened! Where did everyone go and why are there spoilers that haven’t been deleted?

    Not trying to be rude, but this makes me sad
    _____________

    I feel the same way. I’ve also been reading/commenting on this blog for awhile now (since Season 3) and there has never been such blatant spoiler usage. It’s always nice to welcome new folks but PLEASE people some of us enjoy the week long wait. KEEP HOPE ALIVE!

  186. Heidi says:

    I said IF you WANT to know what happens. I gave an option. I apologize for those offended. And I didn’t realize until after I posted the first one that no spoilers are allowed. Try to go easy on new people! Thanks

  187. Flyboy says:

    I have one more thing…..

    I believe one of the biggest keys to understanding this show, and will probably be the last thing explained to us, was also the first scene of the first episode by the way….

    When Jack wakes up after the 815 crash he does it in the same way as the group that ‘flashed’ after 316. They also make a point to show us in a conversation later in that episode that Jack doesn’t remember crashing like the other losties. After watching that scene over and over I caught something I never noticed before. When Jack opens his eyes, laying to the right of his head is Ben’s baton! That is solid proof that we do not know the whole Jack/815 story! Ben’s baton doesn’t just happen to be in the same spot.

    My theory is that somehow Jack comes into contact with himself (like the 2 rabbits) and something unpredictable happens. Something strange happens because the Jack in the jungle does not remember the events leading to the flash nor does he remember crashing on the airplane. He does remember everything leading to getting on the 815 flight but not anything from his life after that.

  188. Flyboy says:

    Sorry for the double post… tried to do it on an palm phone and messed it up… my apologies.

  189. LarLa says:

    Hammer, ToeKnee, PJ Sander..Come back! We miss your theories!

  190. wally p says:

    Honestly I didn’t see any spoilers. With the exception of Heidis (which, couldn’t have been too devistating cuz I already dont remember it..no worries here) Didnt catch WaltDogs, but yeah spoilers ruin it big time. Its bad enough that some times we score on major events without peeking (its a lot cooler to find it out first on the show-) but sometimes we figure it out first, and what can you do. Thats what the point is, theories. This show is all about bending your own mind… spoilers take away from the time that could be used on picking apart every string in this weeks yarn

    no spoilers…you gotta free yourselves man

    but honestly, think you guys are making it bigger than it really is. Dont go getting all Radzinsky on me now!

  191. wally p says:

    [quote comment=”324751″]

    My theory is that somehow Jack comes into contact with himself (like the 2 rabbits) and something unpredictable happens. Something strange happens because the Jack in the jungle does not remember the events leading to the flash nor does he remember crashing on the airplane. He does remember everything leading to getting on the 815 flight but not anything from his life after that.[/quote]

    Nice, always good to see a Jack waking up in the jungle theory. Although some folks seem to think there is no meaning behind this, I would have to believe that it is one of the most important details in the whole show.

  192. Kevo says:

    The losties time line is straight and equal to the rest of the people no matter in what time they are, they move straight and doestn matter if they time travel.

    The island is in two time lines at the same time, and each timeline pulled people in, when ben moved the island, one part of it travel tru time and the other tru space, making the time paradox. the part that traveled thu time is made from memories of the island that can affect the course of it. This memories and this island can affect the island in space because they both are connected and linked.

    The time island is in a paralel timeline from the island that traveled in space. this is shown when desmond is told by faraday to search for his mom in the parallel past time, causing him in the same time but in the other line of time (future), remember what has happened before. Also when sun saw the picture of the namaste greeting. This proves events change the future, events from the island in time.

    So if the time island moves to the future the event of the island that moved in space will afect the people in the future.

    When they mean save the island they are telling that the island have to be put in together again and be one.

    I think if little ben dies, big ben dies, but its ben so he is not going to die anyway. (he cant die that easy) Little ben now is harmed and dying, this explains why ben in the past is also lying in a bed unconsious. They both are linked, so if something happens to one, happens to the other somehow, not exactly but somehow. I think they are going to cure little ben and big ben is going to get better and wake up, and my theory is going to be proved.
    If u guys are thinking ben is unconsious because sun hit him hard, that likely umrpobable, because alot of time have passed. I think he just got sick cause sayid shoot little ben.

    This means that both islands are in the present and connected so they can be affected one with another. makeing it extreamly dangerous. So they need to save it and put it back togerther.

    And btw sorry about my english… im not that good.

  193. Cosmic Rum says:

    [quote comment=”324670″][quote comment=”324380″] Crazy thing is, why did Ben want them to go back? He obviously isn’t faring too well now![/quote]

    I have a theory on why Ben wanted all of them to go back: maybe he “remembers” them all since he obviously met them when he was a kid, and maybe the things that they do are essential to Ben’s eventual rise to power over the Hostiles?[/quote]
    That makes sense.

  194. SydneyLost says:

    Seems clear to me why Ben needed them all to get on that plane with him. He remembers that he met Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Fatty, Jin when he was a kid. Eventually as an adult he turns the wheel and ends up off the island. He wants to get back to the island but can’t. But he knows that Jack etc will end up traveling back to Island-1977. He could sit idly by and watch events unfold until Jack etc end up back on the island. But the logical thing to do is to manipulate them all onto the same flight and make sure he’s on the flight too. Of course there’s no guarantee he won’t die, and no guarantee that it’s even the event that takes Jack etc back to the island. But it’s the only chance Ben has.

  195. Mal says:

    [quote comment=”324701″]First time. WattsDog ruined this reading. He was a Spoiler.
    I think that WHWH if someone has observed it or knows it happened. Ben somehow learns the losties stories, and knows what will happen right up until the losties and Ben separate on 316. After that there’s no one to tell him what happened. He falters in 2007.
    Since Ben knows of these events, through evesdropping or truth drugs, they have to happen. The filler around what he knows remains unknown until it is observed.
    So, Ben cannot die until 2007 no matter what crazy action he takes. He should be a wealthy man. Like

    Widmore…
    Ben’s list of Jack, Kate, Hurley and Ford-Sawyer, was a list of the people he knew were going to come back and tell him what’s up.
    We’re the observers.[/quote]

    I agree. I think it’s great the way things are all coming together now… it’s always been so mysterious why Ben seemed so ahead of the game, why he always seemed to have a plan… now we know. He knows what happened in the past, and he knows what he has to do in the present to ensure that it happens the same way. Now the question is, what happens in the future…

  196. Mal says:

    [quote comment=”324766″]The losties time line is straight and equal to the rest of the people no matter in what time they are, they move straight and doestn matter if they time travel.

    The island is in two time lines at the same time, and each timeline pulled people in, when ben moved the island, one part of it travel tru time and the other tru space, making the time paradox. the part that traveled thu time is made from memories of the island that can affect the course of it. This memories and this island can affect the island in space because they both are connected and linked.

    The time island is in a paralel timeline from the island that traveled in space. this is shown when desmond is told by faraday to search for his mom in the parallel past time, causing him in the same time but in the other line of time (future), remember what has happened before. Also when sun saw the picture of the namaste greeting. This proves events change the future, events from the island in time.

    So if the time island moves to the future the event of the island that moved in space will afect the people in the future.

    When they mean save the island they are telling that the island have to be put in together again and be one.

    I think if little ben dies, big ben dies, but its ben so he is not going to die anyway. (he cant die that easy) Little ben now is harmed and dying, this explains why ben in the past is also lying in a bed unconsious. They both are linked, so if something happens to one, happens to the other somehow, not exactly but somehow. I think they are going to cure little ben and big ben is going to get better and wake up, and my theory is going to be proved.
    If u guys are thinking ben is unconsious because sun hit him hard, that likely umrpobable, because alot of time have passed. I think he just got sick cause sayid shoot little ben.

    This means that both islands are in the present and connected so they can be affected one with another. makeing it extreamly dangerous. So they need to save it and put it back togerther.

    And btw sorry about my english… im not that good.[/quote]

    Kevo – A few things. Yes, the events in the past affect the future of the Island… but in the same way that the events of today affect tomorrow. Everything we have seen before they started traveling through time is fixed, and it has already been affected by the past. The “present time” will not change for the Island.

    Also, you say that the Island needs to be saved from this time paradox… I do not think that is what the Island needs to be saved by. I think “saving” refers to the H-Bomb.

  197. marco says:

    The guy who plays Oldham is William Sanderson who was J. F. Sebastion in Blade Runner.

  198. FrankS says:

    What if Ben doesn’t die because the DI people help to save him? Wouldn’t his hatred of everything DI related dissipate? This would mean Ben never takes over as leader of the others. And John Locke steps in to lead. So all the events we are seeing is course correction because in the original timeline, very bad things happened. If John becomes leader and Ben doesn’t, likely no purge; likely Widmore stays on the island until he decides to leave. Just thinking out loud – only problem is, how does JL become leader of the others?

  199. Jeremy says:

    Avid reader, first post.

    I’ve watched the show religiously – but am a step or two behind some of the theories and storylines.

    Sun and Ben didn’t flash back because they already exist on the island in 1977 (as did Charlotte, which is why her body simply vanished). As mentioned, I think Sun is the baby we saw in the season’s first episode.

    Talking to my wife last night, we believe that by “killing” the young Ben Linus – that now the 40 y/o Ben will flash to the past. (not sure what will happen to his pre-teen self, perhaps flash somewhere else?)

    It could be that the 40 y/o Ben is the one that kills his father and starts the purge.

    I call dibs on the finale episode of LOST being the true reason they all get on the Oceanic flight in the first place. The final moments of the episode will show the plane approaching the island and the entire show will be a giant time-loop.

  200. shellonius funk says:

    i don’t know if i’m on board with the Sun Not Flashing Because She’s Already On The Island theory.
    sun wasn’t born until 1980.
    i’m not saying it’s impossible, but i’m not on board yet.

    if WHH, then i’m not sure why farraday would even BOTHERED talking to 90s desmond during the flashes. though he DID tell desmond that he (desmond) is “uniquely special”. i’m curious how farrady even knows that.

    i also wonder if ben KNEW that the 815ers would flash. he knew that, according to hawking, the results would be unpredictable, but i wonder if he knew who would flash and when they’d flash. seems to me that they aren’t able to pinpoint it that exactly…since the island’s always moving.

  201. Mal says:

    [quote comment=”324885″]i don’t know if i’m on board with the Sun Not Flashing Because She’s Already On The Island theory.
    sun wasn’t born until 1980.
    i’m not saying it’s impossible, but i’m not on board yet.

    if WHH, then i’m not sure why farraday would even BOTHERED talking to 90s desmond during the flashes. though he DID tell desmond that he (desmond) is “uniquely special”. i’m curious how farrady even knows that.

    i also wonder if ben KNEW that the 815ers would flash. he knew that, according to hawking, the results would be unpredictable, but i wonder if he knew who would flash and when they’d flash. seems to me that they aren’t able to pinpoint it that exactly…since the island’s always moving.[/quote]

    I agree. I don’t think that the theory that Sun and Ben didn’t flash because they are already on the island… holds water. Why didn’t Locke flash? Also, why do people assume that Ben would have flashed? He wasn’t on the original 815 flight.

    I think that the people who flashed back flashed because they play a role in the events that shape the Island’s future. They have something to do with the Purge and/or the conflict between the Others and the Dharmas. Sayid shoots Ben. The Purge happened. The 816 crew who flashed back have already played a role in this. So the Island brought them there. WHH!

    Also, Sun, Ben, and Locke do not flash back to the past because they have a role to play in the present. Maybe they help Jack et al get to the future. Maybe John needs to rally the current Others.

    Christian seems to be waiting for Sun, does he not?

  202. Banana says:

    Whoa…

    When Charlotte disappeared, she somehow ended up back in the UK, for Desmond to find. Right? That was her sick in the bed? So… she disappeared right after she realized that he had come to her as a child and told her not to come back to the island. She just realized it because if she hadn’t died, he never would have told her that. And in some paralell universe she didn’t come back. That’s why Desmond found her. But somehow she was sick anyway. Confusing…. but may have some significance in Ben’s death/ not death.

  203. shellonius funk says:

    teresa was in the bed, not charlotte.

  204. Guesty McGuesterson says:

    I’m not sure why everyone believes you cannot be in the same time period as yourself. All of the remaining 815 passengers flashed to the night of Aaron’s birth–when they were still on the Island. Locke, Sawyer, Juliet and Jin have all already been in the same time period as pervious selves.

  205. shellonius funk says:

    i agree, guesty.

  206. helen says:

    [quote comment=”324864″]The guy who plays Oldham is William Sanderson who was J. F. Sebastion in Blade Runner.[/quote]
    awesome! who doesn’t love philip k dick tie-ins!

  207. helen says:

    [quote comment=”324893″]I’m not sure why everyone believes you cannot be in the same time period as yourself. All of the remaining 815 passengers flashed to the night of Aaron’s birth–when they were still on the Island. Locke, Sawyer, Juliet and Jin have all already been in the same time period as pervious selves.[/quote]

    you’re right – we just discussed this at lunch today. Yet, no one was in close proximity to themselves during that segment and it was for a brief period during a “flash.”

  208. duke says:

    [quote comment=”324576″][quote comment=”324545″][quote comment=”324492″]OK, so for those saying that Ben can’t possibly be dead because we’ve seen him in the “future” as an adult…[/quote]

    I will also put my name in the hat for the Ben is not dead yet group. Ben has to survive this because from Ben’s perspective (individual observer’s perspective) he has not yet lived out the events between 1977 and 2007 so he must still fulfill his destiny. [/quote]

    I agree that Sayid may in fact have created the impetus for Ben to be bad and hate everything originally associated with the DI, however, he believes Sayid to be a Hostile.

    I also believe that perhaps Ben is dead, and the island knew that would happen because he is in this weird “middle world” with Sun and Lapidus. So..perhaps he is dead and Christian is going to help Sun and Lapidus on their journey to get back to LIVING.[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Ben has already met Alpert before his conversations with Sayid. Meaning that he already has the hatred for the DI and said something to the effects of him needing to have patience for the past four years and wanting Sayid to take him along. He has had the hatred and wanted to leave for at least the past four years, somewhere in 1973.

  209. duke says:

    [quote comment=”324625″]Still trying to figure out the quote thingy ;-)

    Why would Ben be in the infirmary if he were dead? Maybe Locke kills him at the same time? I just dont think that’s the end of Ben’s story…

    That would mean child Lapidus is also on the 70’s island?[/quote]
    ______________________
    Locke is in no way going to kill anyone especially Ben. He will “believe” that Ben did what he had to do. Locke will see Ben’s actions as confirming to himself that he is/was special and meant to do great things. LOcke has always been very intune with destiny and fate. This “miracle” of him being alive will confirm to him his destiny. I also will speculate that he will no longer have the doubts, about himself and his destiny/fate, that hindered him throughout the show will no longer be present. He is esstenially a “new” man.

  210. duke says:

    [quote comment=”324629″]If young Ben does survive, perhaps this is why he says(believes?) he was “born” on the island. Maybe he considers this day as his rebirth?[/quote]
    ___________________
    Or maybe he does actually die but gets brought back to life like Locke does leading him to say that he has lived there all his life.

  211. Cherry(mrs.Awesome) says:

    WoW where to start. This weeks episode ‘HE’s OUR YOU’ was a very complex episode to say the least. In the episode as we all know we met young Sayid and we were like woooow this dude was a serious ninja since he was kid and we also meet Sayid father who seems to be somewhat of an OG. We also meet young Ben and we see he is a nice, gentle and a creepy child (but what do we expect of a child who lives on an island with a smoke monster) that has a father with almost the same characteristics as Sayid’s father except for the abusive twang .Moving on to my point of this blog. In this week episode Sayid admits to Sawyer that he believes he understands his purpose on the island and We all know what that is. However what if his purpose for being on the island is misinterpreted. My reasons for believing that Sayid’s actions are misinterpreted is because he’s trying to prevent the horrible things that happened on the Island like the purge of 1992 that killed over 40 people of the dharma initiative but Sayid’s actions would not prevent this because in a earlier episode Ben tells jack of the purge and tells him that he had some help of some other Dharma Initiative member s (who are these members who helped him, are they jack and the gang or are there people there who are unhappy with dharma tactics or are there others living amongst the dharma people) which means that the purge may still take place even if Ben were to die. So I believe Sayid’s purpose was to mentor younger Ben since they have similar back grounds with harsh fathers and Ben also trust Sayid so him shooting Ben would lead him to be bitter and trust no one . I believe if Sayid would have mentored him ,he could have caused Ben to be a better person and he could have even tortured Bens Father into being a better father thus changing many fates of different people like his own .But this theory could all be wrong if the Others are the “good guys” and Dharma are the “bad guys”,So if this is true with the bad good guy theory then jack and the gang also could have join the others being that his father and half sister (((((((but they both could be dead so you may have to be dead to become a Other because jacks dad is obviously dead and Claire after the house she was in blew up meaning that Ben becomes an Other at that moment because he is dead )))))))have seemed to join the others thus being the hidden whispers in the forest (hidden because they don’t want to run into other selves. Wild and Farfetched I Know but let me know what you think.
    Sorry for the parenthesis there confusing , ikno
    MrS. Awesome

  212. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment=”324881″]Avid reader, first post.

    I call dibs on the finale episode of LOST being the true reason they all get on the Oceanic flight in the first place. The final moments of the episode will show the plane approaching the island and the entire show will be a giant time-loop.[/quote]
    ================================

    I love it! This goes a bit with the Trautwig idea that this group of people has been engaged in this struggle (or game) for possibly hundreds of years. Always trying to change the outcome. It’s such an intriguing idea – what is the outcome they are trying to change? who is in on it? Ben, Whidmore and Lady Faraday all appear to be outside the boundaries of time. If their attemps to change fail, do they keep trying? This would create the continuous loop you suggest Banana. And what an awesome ending (or beginning?) that would be for the series.

  213. ShelbyDee says:

    I said Banana I meant Jeremy. My notes were mixed up. Yes, I admit I take notes.

  214. Claudia says:

    thats a great theory mrs.awesome i never thought of it in that way .You should do a weekly video blog you have stange but good theories that could make the show go in another way than just simple time travel.

  215. shellonius funk says:

    cherry/claudia:
    the fact that there are dharma folks involved with the others isn’t a theory; it’s a fact.
    our survivors will simply add to those numbers; we already know that sawyer and alpert reached an understanding before sawyer even joined dharma.
    we also saw young ben witness jin and sayid talking; i’m sure he may think that there are other dharma folks that are connected to the others.

  216. Claudia says:

    yes.Iknow but it is a Theory that jacks gang are future others and they are the whispers and the woods. and it is a theory that claire could be dead its not conformed yet .so if it is true then to be an other you must be dead then we have seen the moment when ben became an other already !!!THEORY!!! so mr.blogger who said these are not theories then we must be watching a different show.

  217. Huh? says:

    Okay I have been reading this blog since Day 1 and I just jumped on this thread today and read all the posts…..

    – Where are all the “oldtimers”?
    – Why so many new bloggers? No offense –
    just wondering.
    – Many of the theories discussed here are not
    new and have been talked about extensively
    in other threads.
    – Please follow Rule 2 – comment on the
    correct thread

    Thanks!!!!

  218. Eric says:

    I’ve been here for years and can say for me…I’m still wrapping my head around all the possibilities these big reveals have created (the last three episodes have moved the story forward so rapidly)

    Can’t wait to jump back in.

    Also love the new posters theories a bunch…

  219. jaime says:

    Hey all,

    Just found what might be an easter egg

    The painted window above the entrance to the building Sayid runs out of after killing the russian guy says “олдхэм фармасьютикалс.” If you transliterate the Cyrillic lettering into English lettering it reads “Oldham Pharmaceuticals,” but the Russian word for pharmaceuticals is медикаменты (English transliteration: medicamenti.) Pharmaceutical, as an adjective, in Russian is фармацевтический (English transliteration: pharmatsevticheski.)

    Thought this was a cool find on another site. Funny thing about Oldham. He chooses to live without the amenities that Dharma has. Lives in a tee pee, no electricity or running water, uses and old record playing device, no syringe for the truth serum. His name even has “old” in it. What about him are we suppose to think from his way of living?

  220. Nathan says:

    [quote comment=”324893″]I’m not sure why everyone believes you cannot be in the same time period as yourself. All of the remaining 815 passengers flashed to the night of Aaron’s birth–when they were still on the Island. Locke, Sawyer, Juliet and Jin have all already been in the same time period as pervious selves.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I don’t think that characters can not be in the same time period with another one of themselves, just the opposite. They just can not be near another one of themselves like the Chang/rabbit video suggested. The writers purposely have characters staying away from themselves until the time comes when it does happen. Then we will see what happens if they do encounter themselves. It might even be the cliff hanger for the end of the season.

  221. shellonius funk says:

    jaime…the only thing i thought of re oldham was “jacob doesn’t like technology”.
    still not sure what to think of him.
    good find on the easter eggs.

  222. Nathan says:

    [quote comment=”324985″]jaime…the only thing i thought of re oldham was “jacob doesn’t like technology”.
    still not sure what to think of him.
    good find on the easter eggs.[/quote]
    Another possible connection is that Locke once took some peyote in a tent.

  223. jaime says:

    Also did you all the Geronimo Jackson poster that was hanging in the cafeteria? Well the poster depicts an Alice in wonderland theme with Alice images. Interesting

  224. Adapa1 says:

    [quote comment=”324751″]

    When Jack wakes up after the 815 crash he does it in the same way as the group that ‘flashed’ after 316. They also make a point to show us in a conversation later in that episode that Jack doesn’t remember crashing like the other losties. After watching that scene over and over I caught something I never noticed before. When Jack opens his eyes, laying to the right of his head is Ben’s baton! That is solid proof that we do not know the whole Jack/815 story! Ben’s baton doesn’t just happen to be in the same spot.

    My theory is that somehow Jack comes into contact with himself (like the 2 rabbits) and something unpredictable happens. Something strange happens because the Jack in the jungle does not remember the events leading to the flash nor does he remember crashing on the airplane. He does remember everything leading to getting on the 815 flight but not anything from his life after that.[/quote]

    WTF dude which scene was that, the first time,or the second time he landed inthe jungle?

  225. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”324993″][quote comment=”324751″]

    When Jack wakes up after the 815 crash he does it in the same way as the group that ‘flashed’ after 316. They also make a point to show us in a conversation later in that episode that Jack doesn’t remember crashing like the other losties. After watching that scene over and over I caught something I never noticed before. When Jack opens his eyes, laying to the right of his head is Ben’s baton! That is solid proof that we do not know the whole Jack/815 story! Ben’s baton doesn’t just happen to be in the same spot.

    My theory is that somehow Jack comes into contact with himself (like the 2 rabbits) and something unpredictable happens. Something strange happens because the Jack in the jungle does not remember the events leading to the flash nor does he remember crashing on the airplane. He does remember everything leading to getting on the 815 flight but not anything from his life after that.[/quote]

    WTF

    dude which scene was that, the first time,or the second time he landed inthe jungle?[/quote]
    *****************************************************

    Ya there was a lot of discussion on this Blog about that. You can clearly see a black object. Most assumed it was the baton. No one can say for sure But you can clearly see it

  226. jaime says:

    My whole thoughts on Ben’s shooting.
    Could it be possible that the reason Ben was so consumed in this episode with making sure that Sayid knew he was a killer from birth was that he was trying to get 1977 Sayid to shoot him. Maybe getting Sayid to shoot him as a young boy will alter a time line or event in some way and Ben knew that. Hmmmmmm

  227. jaime says:

    No one has mentioned this either. The song playing when we are introduced to Oldham was Billy Holiday’s “I Can’t Give you Anything” at least that is what i think it was. Does anyone else know if this is correct. It would play into what they thought sayid was offering…nothing. Did you notice though how much more Horace was really listening to Sayid when he said “you are all going to die” Radzinsky was focused on The Swan and Oldham was just scratching his head but I thought Horace was thinking it could be the truth

  228. confused says:

    I am confused why comments keep stating that sun and ben dont flash back to a time since they already existed on the island at that time. what about those episodes where the island kept flashing around in time and in one episode sawyer flashed to when kate was helping claire deliver aaron. he flashed back to a time that he already existed on the island too. locke flashed to the time when the light went on in the hatch. am i missing something?

    [quote comment=”324881″]Avid reader, first post.

    I’ve watched the show religiously – but am a step or two behind some of the theories and storylines.

    Sun and Ben didn’t flash back because they already exist on the island in 1977 (as did Charlotte, which is why her body simply vanished). As mentioned, I think Sun is the baby we saw in the season’s first episode.

    Talking to my wife last night, we believe that by “killing” the young Ben Linus – that now the 40 y/o Ben will flash to the past. (not sure what will happen to his pre-teen self, perhaps flash somewhere else?)

    It could be that the 40 y/o Ben is the one that kills his father and starts the purge.

    I call dibs on the finale episode of LOST being the true reason they all get on the Oceanic flight in the first place. The final moments of the episode will show the plane approaching the island and the entire show will be a giant time-loop.[/quote]

  229. confused says:

    also has anyone commented on what happened to faraday? he was with sawyer, et al, 3 years ago but haven’t seen him lately

  230. confused says:

    I think the people that flashed back to 1977 were sitting on the right side of the plane, everyone else was to the left

    [quote comment=”324887″][quote comment=”324885″]i don’t know if i’m on board with the Sun Not Flashing Because She’s Already On The Island theory.
    sun wasn’t born until 1980.
    i’m not saying it’s impossible, but i’m not on board yet.

    if WHH, then i’m not sure why farraday would even BOTHERED talking to 90s desmond during the flashes. though he DID tell desmond that he (desmond) is “uniquely special”. i’m curious how farrady even knows that.

    i also wonder if ben KNEW that the 815ers would flash. he knew that, according to hawking, the results would be unpredictable, but i wonder if he knew who would flash and when they’d flash. seems to me that they aren’t able to pinpoint it that exactly…since the island’s always moving.[/quote]

    I agree. I don’t think that the theory that Sun and Ben didn’t flash because they are already on the island… holds water. Why didn’t Locke flash? Also, why do people assume that Ben would have flashed? He wasn’t on the original 815 flight.

    I think that the people who flashed back flashed because they play a role in the events that shape the Island’s future. They have something to do with the Purge and/or the conflict between the Others and the Dharmas. Sayid shoots Ben. The Purge happened. The 816 crew who flashed back have already played a role in this. So the Island brought them there. WHH!

    Also, Sun, Ben, and Locke do not flash back to the past because they have a role to play in the present. Maybe they help Jack et al get to the future. Maybe John needs to rally the current Others.

    Christian seems to be waiting for Sun, does he not?[/quote]

  231. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”324756″]Hammer, ToeKnee, PJ Sander..Come back! We miss your theories![/quote]
    Well, I’m here, whenever I have time to check in. Very strange that many of the “regulars” seem to have disappeared. Hopefully everyone else will be back…..

  232. gmta leah says:

    ………..so Im not the sharpest tool in the box …eh ?

  233. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment=”325016″]also has anyone commented on what happened to faraday? he was with sawyer, et al, 3 years ago but haven’t seen him lately[/quote]
    ===========
    I’ll take the bait. I’m thinking he is either with the Alpert and the Others or he completely lost his mind and he’s being restrained somewhere with the Dharma people. Although now that I think about it, the Dharma people would likely send him off the island if he was high maintenance so maybe that’s not an option afterall since I’m thinking he is on the island. If he is with the Others maybe he will give entree to Sayid as he stumbles through the jungle.

    Speaking of – Rousseau got there in the 80s right? Wouldn’t it be interesting if Sayid set out on his own, developed an exile hideout, and set little traps and then Rousseau eventually found them and took them for herself? Now that we’ve met the young Rousseau, I’m not convinced she came to the island with the experience to create and maintain such things. Another loop.

  234. blar-nia says:

    [quote comment=”325019″]………..so Im not the sharpest tool in the box …eh ?[/quote]
    —nope, no, no, no — not even the spork-iest spoon-fork in the fast food drive-thru luv.

  235. SuzySchool says:

    I read an interesting theory somewhere else and thought it was great:
    *Remember back a few seasons when Ben had Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley kidnapped and brought to him. He sent Hurley back but kept the other three. What if he remembers them from when he was a kid?!
    *Also, Juliette’s therapist (a few seasons back) commented that Ben is obsessed w/ Juliette because she (J) reminds him (B) of someone…how about Juliette reminds Ben of Juliette?! She saves him as a boy from the gunshot?

    I thought they were great theories and thought I would share for feedback.

  236. RGS says:

    Well I finally got the chance to watch the ep. I thought it was ok. I’m definitely in the group that does NOT think Ben is dead.

    Thought the ep. was mostly filler, except the whole Sayid influencing Ben to be a killer. First thing I thought was that young Ben was saved by his book, but then he fell forward kinda awkwardly so I dunno, but he definitely isn’t dead. Would it have been too much if Sayid would have tried to fire the gun again to make sure he was dead, but have the gun not go off or be out of bullets? Then he’d toss it and run off. What will become of Sayid though?

    Adapa that was a funny azz post!

    I sorta liked that idea that Widmore and Eloise influence Faraday into becoming the expert on time travel, but if Faraday turned the DW (I think he freezes it) and ended up in Tunisia, he would already have the knowledge of time travel and therefore Widmore would not need to fund him.

    One thing that came to mind for me was the scene where Eko and Jim(?) are hiding from the Others and they leave no trail…is it possible that the lack of trail is because those “others” were actually folks flashing?

    Really there could be flashes going on all the time it would just depend on who’s perspective we as viewers would be seeing, because the people who aren’t flashing don’t know it is happening when it does…but that’s way too deep and possibly a spinoff TV show.

    If you guys want the regulars back you have to start spewing theories that discredit their’s to the point where they can’t contain themselves. Like, it makes perfect sense that Ben can’t die because we see him in the future. This differs from us seeing Charlie in the future visiting Hurley…because Charlie is dead.

  237. wallyp says:

    JUst watched a second time and I just thought of something … since Ben is unconcious in 2007, couldnt that mean that he is being channeled through young Ben the whole time? It’d be weird if that was the case, but…couldn’t it?

  238. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”324314″][quote comment=”324313″]Yeah, sorry. Long day[/quote]

    No worries, Nick. I am just glad it is here with time to spare. BTW, I never see any posts from you or Will (at least not under those names) so as long as I possibly have your attention *bg*

    T H A N K
    Y O U !

    for providing us with this forum to discuss ideas SPOLIER FREE! There are so few places out there!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////
    Except your posting on theymovedtheisland
    along with CM,L4e,Hammer [who is posting under a different name.Nathen]Rita,[pj is posting under jane].miss kim .

  239. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”325029″][quote comment=”325019″]………..so Im not the sharpest tool in the box …eh ?[/quote]
    —nope, no, no, no — not even the spork-iest spoon-fork in the fast food drive-thru luv.[/quote]
    ////////////////////////////////
    we shall see.

  240. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”325037″]
    One thing that came to mind for me was the scene where Eko and Jim(?) are hiding from the Others and they leave no trail…is it possible that the lack of trail is because those “others” were actually folks flashing?
    [/quote]
    I haven’t watched this in a whild, but on the Season 2 DVD, I remememeber seeing the last Other in the line of those walking taking a branch with leaves and brushing the ground, as if to wipe away the footprints. This wasn’t in an episode, or a bonus feature, I think it was just as a certain menu came up on the screen. Now I don’t know if this was meant to explain why thier footprints are never seen, but it seems plausible to me.

  241. adapa1 says:

    Thanks RGS!! I was highly intoxicated at the time. ;-)

  242. Tarzan says:

    LOST for Dummies – by Tarzan

    Tarzan roam forest to see what science hub-bub all about.

    Pass Teepee that Tarzan rent to ‘old-man’ that no like technology.

    See ‘old-man’ have party with drugs. Make and use.

    Tarzan no rent used tent no more to ‘old-man’.

    King of Apes just say no to drugs.

    Tarzan tell ‘old-man’ to go be drug czar some other island.

    ‘Old-man’ no get security deposit back because rental Teepee smell like island weed.

    See from treeline that yellow haired woman and scrawny brown hair woman not make war – just yet.

    Still believe a rotting dead carcass at heart of scrawny brown hair woman soul.

    Tarzan hunting island snipe other night and see science boy playing fire in jungle.

    Science boy then light science car and science camp on fire.

    Think science boy have issue with science boy father.

    Later see science boy and drug party man that no like island sandwich.

    Drug party man take fire stick and shoot science boy in chest.

    Tarzan run and hide now – Native Chief Richard Alpert pound war drums over this one.

    No want get caught crossfire.

    Tarzan think Tarzan safe – Native Chief Richard Alpert know Tarzan motto.

    “Fire sticks no kill island peoples, island peoples kill island peoples.”

  243. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”325037″]Well I finally got the chance to watch the ep. I thought it was ok. I’m definitely in the group that does NOT think Ben is dead.

    Thought the ep. was mostly filler, except the whole Sayid influencing Ben to be a killer. First thing I thought was that young Ben was saved by his book, but then he fell forward kinda awkwardly so I dunno, but he definitely isn’t dead. Would it have been too much if Sayid would have tried to fire the gun again to make sure he was dead, but have the gun not go off or be out of bullets? Then he’d toss it and run off. What will become of Sayid though?

    Adapa that was a funny azz post!

    I sorta liked that idea that Widmore and Eloise influence Faraday into becoming the expert on time travel, but if Faraday turned the DW (I think he freezes it) and ended up in Tunisia, he would already have the knowledge of time travel and therefore Widmore would not need to fund him.

    One thing that came to mind for me was the scene where Eko and Jim(?) are hiding from the Others and they leave no trail…is it possible that the lack of trail is because those “others” were actually folks flashing?

    Really there could be flashes going on all the time it would just depend on who’s perspective we as viewers would be seeing, because the people who aren’t flashing don’t know it is happening when it does…but that’s way too deep and possibly a spinoff TV show.

    If you guys want the regulars back you have to start spewing theories that discredit their’s to the point where they can’t contain themselves.

    Like, it makes perfect sense that Ben can’t die because we see him in the future. This differs from us seeing Charlie in the future visiting Hurley…because Charlie is dead.[/quote]
    //////////////////////////
    Do we want them back ?there s been more new faces on here since thier migration.It makes a change from 500+ posts of which 200 appx are from the overbearing “royal family”.who seem to think of themselves as elite.Oh and I would like to apologise to Frank for anything I may have said in last weeks post .I was Wrong to stick up for hammer ,by his own admission he doesnt even read all the previous posts each week .I was however correct in saying there is a pecking order on this blog.Beware of the whispers thread.It designed to make fools of us.

  244. gmta leah says:

    I have watched lost from jacks eye ,and been on this blog for a couple of years .This is my last post . The behavior of some in the past week has disgusted me .They know who they are .I would say to you all,dont be taken in by your suposed hero,s on this blog because many of you are thought of as thich ,stupid ,time wasters by them .Dont be dictated to as to what is correct or what you think of the show ,if you have a theory stick to it .dont let others shout you down .They dont know more , they are not watching a different show ,its the same episode as you.The reason certain individuals appear to be in the know is because they store the info ,not in their mind, but in their computers ,on pieces of paper .they take notes .Ask yourself when did any of the ‘elite’ agree or pat the back of any blogger not in the circle of friends?I hope for the future of this blog, those that are missing stay on the little island where they belong.I know that this post may cause a problem for many .I dont like liars and i dont like hypercrites.Trust and respect has been given to those that really dont deserve it.I will not be reading or contributing in my name or [any other]again.ps. I would like to apolgise to frank for last week. It seems he was correct.

  245. Hooked says:

    [quote comment=”325186″]I have watched lost from jacks eye ,and been on this blog for a couple of years .This is my last post . The behavior of some in the past week has disgusted me .They know who they are .I would say to you all,dont be taken in by your suposed hero,s on this blog because many of you are thought of as thich ,stupid ,time wasters by them .Dont be dictated to as to what is correct or what you think of the show ,if you have a theory stick to it .dont let others shout you down .They dont know more , they are not watching a different show ,its the same episode as you.The reason certain individuals appear to be in the know is because they store the info ,not in their mind, but in their computers ,on pieces of paper .they take notes .Ask yourself when did any of the ‘elite’ agree or pat the back of any blogger not in the circle of friends?I hope for the future of this blog, those that are missing stay on the little island where they belong.I know that this post may cause a problem for many .I dont like liars and i dont like hypercrites.Trust and respect has been given to those that really dont deserve it.I will not be reading or contributing in my name or [any other]again.ps. I would like to apolgise to frank for last week. It seems he was correct.[/quote]
    *******************
    Well said gmta leah!

  246. Hooked says:

    Well said gmta leah!

  247. nfrk says:

    could it be that the “regulars” have been recruited by that Dharma wants you email that PJ mentioned? I miss their thoughts on the ep.s too :)

  248. Namaste, Leah says:

    Horoscope for 44.5 year old Libras like gmta leah in Blackley, Greater Manchester.

    Saturday, Feb 28, 2009

    Cooperation and successful collaboration in the business and professional world are highlighted now. Legal matters and governmental matters of all kinds run very smoothly now. If you are involved in any legal disputes or involvements with government agencies, this is a time when a successful resolution can be reached. This is a good time to bring about increased harmony and cooperation in any organization, club, or business of which you are a part.

    Sunday, Mar 1, 2009

    Giving and receiving appreciation, love, and happiness come into your life now. You are moved to express your affections more openly than usual. You also want to be surrounded with beauty and harmonious people, and your artistic efforts flourish.

    Your overnight lows will drop to near 2C (35F). Construction and repair work begins on the M60 on Monday, adjust your travel time accordingly. You are always welcome here. And always remember, left with your legs. Namaste.

  249. bolddeceiver says:

    [quote comment=”324893″]I’m not sure why everyone believes you cannot be in the same time period as yourself. All of the remaining 815 passengers flashed to the night of Aaron’s birth–when they were still on the Island. Locke, Sawyer, Juliet and Jin have all already been in the same time period as pervious selves.[/quote]

    I agree with this. I believe that, as with the rabbits in the DI video, the losties can be in the same place as their selves they just can’t get close to themselves as this would cause a paradox. I’m beginning to think this may be what causes “the incident.”

    Other random thoughts:

    I believe Ben will be healed by the island and will be told to get up by his mother in the same fashion Walt told Locke to get up.

    This healing is why Ben shoots Locke after realizing that Jacob spoke to him. Up to that point Ben did not believe anyone was as special to the island as he. After he finds out that Locke can speak to Jacob he shoots him in order to find out if Locke is truly as special as he.

    I’m beginning to think the Ajira passengers who are not in 1977 have flashed to the future, not the present. Remember that before the plane crashed it was dark, after it was bright daylight. Also the DI village looks very aged. Just a thought.

  250. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment=”325207″][quote comment=”324893″][/quote]
    they just can’t get close to themselves as this would cause a paradox. I’m beginning to think this may be what causes “the incident.”

    I’m beginning to think the Ajira passengers who are not in 1977 have flashed to the future, not the present. Remember that before the plane crashed it was dark, after it was bright daylight. Also the DI village looks very aged. Just a thought.[/quote]

    *********************************

    I agree about the incident. I think it isn’t the whole incident but certainly a part of it. For example… maybe they were conducting an experiment with trying to send Jack forward (or backwards depending on your perspective – the observer’s frame of reference thing again!) in time so they never leave the island (as this seems to be something that wasn’t suppose to happen) but somehow someone (maybe Oldham – since he does not like technology and his name is a reference to ‘old’) gets to close to the energy (crosses the ‘event horizon’ – see my earlier post) and gets sucked in and can never return therefor he becomes Jacob, while Jack somehow comes in contact with himself therefor one of Jack dies (the one in 1977) and the other flashes to the scene of the 815 crash and wakes up in the first episode of the show!

    It is a work in progress, still trying to flesh it out but I think I am on to something.

    As for the Ajirah group….
    I think they are in the future also. Don’t forget that it wasn’t just the dharmaville that was abandoned and run down but I also remember when the Jack and Juliet group was flashing around and they found the Ajirah water bottle before they took out the outriggers their beach camp was ransacked, run down and abandoned. In both cases it looked like atleast several years had gone by.

  251. Namaste, Leah says:

    All caught up on the comments and this one carries the most weight, IMO.

    [quote comment=”324379″]Another bit I didn’t understand – Sayid’s speech to Sawyer, where he claimed to realize what his purpose was. If at that moment he was talking about killing Ben, why wouldn’t he have taken Sawyer up on his offer to escape? How could Sayid know that somehow in the next few hours before his execution would be taking place, there would be some other way for him to get out of the prison cell? Seemed too contrived to me.[/quote]

    So many possible answers, no clues. I thought that killing young Ben was it – but contrived. It may be a martyr thing (popular activity in his hometown). They made a big thing about his brother at the beginning of the show, but never really returned to it. Maybe we will see part two of young Sayid… and that will close the loop on what “his purpose was”.

  252. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”325217″]All caught up on the comments and this one carries the most weight, IMO.

    [quote comment=”324379″]Another bit I didn’t understand – Sayid’s speech to Sawyer, where he claimed to realize what his purpose was. If at that moment he was talking about killing Ben, why wouldn’t he have taken Sawyer up on his offer to escape? How could Sayid know that somehow in the next few hours before his execution would be taking place, there would be some other way for him to get out of the prison cell? Seemed too contrived to me.[/quote]

    So many possible answers, no clues. I thought that killing young Ben was it – but contrived. It may be a martyr thing (popular activity in his hometown). They made a big thing about his brother at the beginning of the show, but never really returned to it. Maybe we will see part two of young Sayid… and that will close the loop on what “his purpose was”.[/quote]
    __________________________

    Thanks for the compliment. But in comment #164, Aggie Mo brought up a possible explanation:
    Didn’t young Ben imply that he would be helping Sayid when he told him “If you are patient, you will get out too”?

    Maybe Sayid knew Ben would come to free him, and then he would have access to kill him.

    So perhaps that was the intention of the writers. I didn’t think so first time through, but I’ll pay closer attention to that scene next time I watch this episode.

  253. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”325186″]I have watched lost from jacks eye ,and been on this blog for a couple of years .This is my last post . The behavior of some in the past week has disgusted me .They know who they are .I would say to you all,dont be taken in by your suposed hero,s on this blog because many of you are thought of as thich ,stupid ,time wasters by them .Dont be dictated to as to what is correct or what you think of the show ,if you have a theory stick to it .dont let others shout you down .They dont know more , they are not watching a different show ,its the same episode as you.The reason certain individuals appear to be in the know is because they store the info ,not in their mind, but in their computers ,on pieces of paper .they take notes .Ask yourself when did any of the ‘elite’ agree or pat the back of any blogger not in the circle of friends?I hope for the future of this blog, those that are missing stay on the little island where they belong.I know that this post may cause a problem for many .I dont like liars and i dont like hypercrites.Trust and respect has been given to those that really dont deserve it.I will not be reading or contributing in my name or [any other]again.ps. I would like to apolgise to frank for last week. It seems he was correct.[/quote]

    Did I miss something? Why all the hostility? What’s happening to this place?

  254. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”325017″]I think the people that flashed back to 1977 were sitting on the right side of the plane, everyone else was to the left
    [/quote]
    Not exactly – Jack and Sun were on the same side of the plane, Sayid and Ilana were on the same side of the plane. I think the island selected certain people to go to a certain time.

  255. Jim in Georgia says:

    Can we review the bidding on “What happened, happened;” not the episode, the concept.

    Suppose what it really means is, “What happened on the grand scale of things happened.”

    Take the French science expedition.

    Version 1: The Bésixdouze sinks, the occupants wash up on the beach with the rescued Jin, the Monster attacks, Jin identifies it, the Monster drags Montand into the hole, everyone goes down into the hole except Danielle because Jin tells her not to, the French men come out of the hole and go crazy and Danielle shoots all of them except Jin who she misses and, maybe, Montand.

    Version 2: The Bésixdouze sinks, the occupants wash up on the beach without Jin, the Monster attacks, Jin is not there to identify it but so what, the Monster drags Montand into the hole, everyone goes down into the hole except Danielle because she thinks for a moment and says “I’m pregnant, I can’t climb down there,” the French men come out of the hole and go crazy and Danielle shoots all of them except Jin (well, he’s not French) who isn’t there and, maybe, Montand.

    The result of both versions is that there’s one French woman, one French baby girl and, maybe, one French man on the Island. It doesn’t really matter if Jin was or wasn’t there.

    Time marches on.

    8) Jim

  256. iowakid says:

    [quote comment=”325186″]I have watched lost from jacks eye ,and been on this blog for a couple of years .This is my last post . The behavior of some in the past week has disgusted me .They know who they are .I would say to you all,dont be taken in by your suposed hero,s on this blog because many of you are thought of as thich ,stupid ,time wasters by them .Dont be dictated to as to what is correct or what you think of the show ,if you have a theory stick to it .dont let others shout you down .They dont know more , they are not watching a different show ,its the same episode as you.The reason certain individuals appear to be in the know is because they store the info ,not in their mind, but in their computers ,on pieces of paper .they take notes .Ask yourself when did any of the ‘elite’ agree or pat the back of any blogger not in the circle of friends?I hope for the future of this blog, those that are missing stay on the little island where they belong.I know that this post may cause a problem for many .I dont like liars and i dont like hypercrites.Trust and respect has been given to those that really dont deserve it.I will not be reading or contributing in my name or [any other]again.ps. I would like to apolgise to frank for last week. It seems he was correct.[/quote]

    I agree I dont miss some of that royal crowd-I was so tired of seeing some of the posters here thinking that they knew it all and I enjoy a lot of the new ones and no one arguing.

  257. Amber says:

    well im sorry to see that so many people are glad that hammer, pj,circus mom, and rita arent here. I dont really have any friends that watch lost, and i was so glad that i found this place to talk about it. i maybe posted 10 times, but no one was ever rude to me or shot my theorys down, if anything they were all helpful and fun to debate with…i know toeknee is sure going to miss the debates with some of those guys…this is a blog guys some people just take things the wrong way. Its just a shame that this place has gone from friendly debate to out and out rudeness and spoilers. and just for everybodys info i didnt think hammer and company were anymore right than any of us. i dont want to be pegged as one of the school girl protecting them cause like i said i barely even posted. but they were some nice folks and its a shame we lost them on here

  258. PJSander says:

    Hi guys,

    I’m back. Well, not back for good, as I am currently maintaining radio silence for now. Though I WILL be back shortly and likely for a long time. You can’t get rid of me that easily. LOL.

    Gmta leah, Hooked and iowakid, whatever I did to make you angry enough to spew such vitriol, I am sorry. I can assure you that I don’t think I am any better than anyone else. I really do NOT understand the stark animosity, so I went back and looked at the Namaste thread (spending way too much of my time – again I wish I knew Daniel Faraday and could get some of it back) to see what on EARTH could have happened to make you SO angry with me/us!? But the same folks were angry there too, and I couldn’t figure out why!

    Tasha, SES, ShelbyDee, wallyp, Amber, flgrl, katesFriend, LarLa, nfrk – thanks for asking about us – it is mighty nice to be missed in such a busy place! Shellonius funk, Toeknee, Huh and RGS were right, we (really I am speaking for myself, but I have to guess the others feel the same way) haven’t run off, or BEEN run off. Just stepping back for a bit for reasons that will become apparent in time. (Yes, I, the geek, took notes – when I saw what gmta leah had written about us, I had to go back and see just how many people hated us so much! I was very glad to see they were in the minority on this one.)

    As for all the “new people” posting this week, hooray! Keep posting! Don’t let me, or any of the others who’ve been named as “missing” this week, make you feel like you’ve nothing to contribute. Everybody has a voice. Some of us just talk too much *g*.

    B4N,
    : ) P

  259. Jay says:

    [quote comment=”324627″]Okay. I am thinking out loud now.

    Like Locke Ben will recover from the gunshot wound. This may be why Ben shot Locke in the first place. Ben will join the others and like Locke will have to prove himself by killing his father. He then becomes the leader of the others. Even though Sayid thought he was changing the future by killing Ben, this is another example of how time will course correct itself.

    Faraday is running around the island trying to figure this whole thing out. This season ends with the purge. Then Faraday goes back and turns the donkey wheel. The island goes back to near present time and Faraday gets zapped back to the desert. Widmore sees Faraday with his cameras and brings him back to Oxford and funds his work. Back on the island the 2007 group and the 1977 group meet.[/quote]

    I always believed that there was another way off the island (agree with earlier post that this must be true in orde for Ben’s closet’s full of suits and passports to make sense). But it occurs to me that this additional time machine/teleportation method may have been uncovered/developed by Farraday in 1974-77. Maybe be discovered or developed the method and used it to leave the island to go where/when he went. Ben must have been using the new travel method (I used to call it Ben’s secret closet) since using the donkey wheel causes the visible, massive manifestations.Hammer, anyone – thoughts, am I off base?

  260. Hammer says:

    Just here to support everything PJ said and to defend myself a bit.

    Yes I too admit to taking notes(in addition to my memory) as well as using other sites that do info gathering. But I always have admitted that and usually quote my sources and often point folks to where I got the info. I for one am trying to help others to understand while helping myself try to figure LOST out.

    The only time I skip posts is when they are from someone who has attacked me, then I only scan them to see if I’m being attacked again…if so, no read, if not…carry on.

    I have always admitted when wrong about a theory and admit that I do ‘back patting’ when I get stuff right(neither will stop *g*).

    Being called elite or uppercrust is hard to defend yourself against…the mere fact that you try will be taken wrong…so if you think I/we act that way…sorry.

    New posters…keep it up PLEASE. Your theories are often the same as ours, we geeks just say them first because LOST our hobby/lifestyle and are online every single moment we can be. I only hoped that when I saw them, more people would debate them with you.

    Jay, IMO, I don’t think you are off base.

    Will be back soon.

    ……..maintaining radio silence………

  261. Andy says:

    [quote comment=”324538″][quote comment=”324498″]So isn’t that a little boring? There’s no way they are just going to stay in the 1970’s, obviously something must happen to get them back to the “present” time. One of them must turn the donkey wheel. Maybe Faraday is connected to this.

    BTW, I’ve loved the idea of the Island being Atlantis since it was first brought up.[/quote]
    Yes, that would be boring–and if you go with the current timeline stuff (that I ascribe to at any rate) YES they can die in the 70’s.

    The 70’s already happened, and whatever happened, happened, but our peop’s personal birth-to-death journey landed them back in the 70’s AFTER they were already on the Island in 04, so they are still on their own timeline, and are at risk of death.

    Their deaths would not change anything about what happened in 04, but their actions may very well have some cause/effect consequences for their future (past) selves.

    Like Sayid shooting Ben–perhaps pushing a smart, abused kid over an edge of darkness. Not Sayid’s intention! But there you go… When they meet again, Ben sees his would-be killer, and irony of ironies–has some fun messing with the guy.[/quote]

    and messing with him in turn leads him to shoot him back in the 70’s! Sayid turns ben into killer, Ben turns Sayid into killer…. the thing thats difficult to get my head around is who turned who first?!

  262. hlcfym says:

    [quote comment=”325216″][quote comment=”325207″][quote comment=”324893″][/quote]
    they just can’t get close to themselves as this would cause a paradox. I’m beginning to think this may be what causes “the incident.”

    I’m beginning to think the Ajira passengers who are not in 1977 have flashed to the future, not the present. Remember that before the plane crashed it was dark, after it was bright daylight. Also the DI village looks very aged. Just a thought.[/quote]

    ##########################################

    I thought when they showed sun, lupidus, and ben back on the island they then displayed “30 years earlier” on the screen and then showed jack and kate ect in the 70’s. So I am not sure how they could be anytime other than 2007. However, what do I really know! I realize that dharmaville looked runned down, but it could have been abandoned for 3 years since they left in 2004.

  263. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”325122?]

    I haven’t watched this in a whild, but on the Season 2 DVD, I remememeber seeing the last Other in the line of those walking taking a branch with leaves and brushing the ground, as if to wipe away the footprints. This wasn’t in an episode, or a bonus feature, I think it was just as a certain menu came up on the screen.

    Now I don’t know if this was meant to explain why thier footprints are never seen, but it seems plausible to me.[/quote]

    Yep, I think Doc or PJ alerted me to that and it is a tough pill for me to swallow. I guess I was just grasping for something that is going to go down as one of those things that will be ‘island mythos’ for me.

  264. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”325296″]

    I thought when they showed sun, lupidus, and ben back on the island they then displayed “30 years earlier” on the screen and then showed jack and kate ect in the 70’s. So I am not sure how they could be anytime other than 2007. However, what do I really know! I realize that dharmaville looked runned down, but it could have been abandoned for 3 years since they left in 2004.[/quote]

    You mentioned Dharmaville, but did you mean Capeside? Is this the Dawson’s Creek blog or Lost? I’m confused.

    (DISCLAIMER: I had to actually look up what the city was for that show on wikipedia, I have never seen an episode of that show…*nervous cough* How bout those Steelers…pretty good SuperBowl right? I think I’m about to head to the garage and tinker on some things, yep that’s it…I’ll be back later.)

  265. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment=”325294″][quote comment=”324538″][quote comment=”324498″]
    The 70’s already happened, and whatever happened, happened, but our peop’s personal birth-to-death journey landed them back in the 70’s AFTER they were already on the Island in 04, so they are still on their own timeline, and are at risk of death.

    Their deaths would not change anything about what happened in 04, but their actions may very well have some cause/effect consequences for their future (past) selves.

    and messing with him in turn leads him to shoot him back in the 70’s! Sayid turns ben into killer, Ben turns Sayid into killer…. the thing thats difficult to get my head around is who turned who first?![/quote]

    *********************************

    I agree with your first thoughts of people’s birth to death journeys and how their death in ’77 would not effect anything that happened to them up until ’04 but could possibly have an effect on what happens to them post ’04.

    However, even though the second part is intriguing and something to think about I have to think it is also somewhat flawed. The part about Sayid turns Ben into killer and Ben turns Sayid into killer is based on a premise that Sayid was not a killer before. This is simply not the case. Sayid killed that chicken, he later tortured for the Americans in the Gulf war, then he became a torturer for the Iraqis and along the way we have seen him kill people. All of this happens before he gets to 2004 and gets off the island and kills for Ben. I don’t think Ben had anything to do with turning Sayid into a killer, I think Ben just exploited Sayid for purposes that we may not understand yet. As far as Sayid turning Ben into a killer, well that may be true but I think the jury is still out on that as well.

    Another thing…
    Sayid is clearly conflicted. He doesn’t think of himself as a killer as evidenced by some of the things he says (namely the time he met Ben when he was working on building those homes and Ben came and tryed to recruit him a second time). Sayid on the island also stops himself from killing Sawyer and Ben when he is torturing them on the island even though in the rage of the moment he appears to want to kill them. After Sayid gets off the island and he meets Nadiya he becomes a changed man. He does not do any of those bad things from his past (torture or kill) and he starts to become the person he always thought of himself as. Then Nadiya is killed and Ben recruits Sayid. Sayid kills because he is conflicted again. During all these times when Sayid is conflicted he seems to think that he is doing what needs to be done not what he would choose to do. For example, he tortured for the Americans because they conned him. He tortures for Iraqi army because they will kill him or his family if he doesn’t. He tortures Sawyer and Ben on the island because he thinks it will be for the greater good of the community. He kills for Ben because Ben cons him into thinking it is the only way to save his friends. He shoots little Ben because he thinks that will stop the purge and possibly help all the losties.

    I think Sayid is trying to be a good man but he gets conflicted along the way and falls victim to his old ways. Sometime on the show I believe Sayid will overcome his past and become the man he thinks of himself as.

  266. Flyboy says:

    [quote comment=”325296″][quote comment=”325216″][quote comment=”325207″][quote comment=”324893″][/quote]
    they just can’t get close to themselves as this would cause a paradox. I’m beginning to think this may be what causes “the incident.”

    I’m beginning to think the Ajira passengers who are not in 1977 have flashed to the future, not the present. Remember that before the plane crashed it was dark, after it was bright daylight. Also the DI village looks very aged. Just a thought.[/quote]

    ##########################################

    I thought when they showed sun, lupidus, and ben back on the island they then displayed “30 years earlier” on the screen and then showed jack and kate ect in the 70’s. So I am not sure how they could be anytime other than 2007. However, what do I really know! I realize that dharmaville looked runned down, but it could have been abandoned for 3 years since they left in 2004.[/quote]

    ***************************************

    I stand corrected. I agree with you.
    I don’t know how I forgot about that…
    my brain must be fried… lol

  267. Flyboy says:

    by the way….

    I think the scene with Sayid when he was a kid was supposed to expose something about Sayid. He killed that chicken not because he was a killer who wanted to, I think he killed that chicken to bail out his brother. In other words, in Sayid’s mind he was doing what he thought had to be done for the greater good (helping his brother).

  268. LizS says:

    First, I love this blog, and thanks to the folks who run it–Nick & Will, huzzah to you!!!

    Second, GMTA Leah–I always enjoy your posts and hope you continue posting, and I hope that whatever your thing is with PJ, Hammer, Rita, et al, gets resolved. I am so unhappy to see negativity in this place instead of friendly debate. We are none of us perfect, or have all the answers, or are time travelers who have jumped a year ahead and seen the end of the series and Know It All. People of strong opinions express their theories strongly! That doesn’t make them right, or wrong, and I know the people you are talking about enjoy debating the points they bring up. Its fun, or should be, and that’s what brings visitors here.

    So, namaste! Peace, & all that good stuff.

    Three–this is getting long, so onto the next post…

    Best, Liz

  269. Miss Kim says:

    You may or may not recognize as an aficionado of this blog…..but I assure you that I am. In the past, I have been a frequent poster but the circumstances of my personal life have prevented me from having much time this season to post. However, I have been keeping up with everyone’s ideas and the drama that has unfolded. Since GMTALeah has correctly linked me to PJ, Hammer, Rita, DocH, Circus Mom, and many others I felt the need to put my two cents in. I have had the privilege of tossing around theories with the aforementioned. Like many people on this blog, I look forward to their thoughts and ideas. I was once a “newbie” and these good folks helped me feel right at home. The rules of this blog seem pretty clear to me. Even without “policing” from the facilitators, common sense should prevail……especially the part about being kind and helpful. Having well thought out theories, documentation to back them up, and a working knowledge of grammar, spelling, and punctuation does not make a person “elite” or “royal”. It makes them admired and respected. Namaste and Peace out.

  270. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”325303″]by the way….

    I think the scene with Sayid when he was a kid was supposed to expose something about Sayid. He killed that chicken not because he was a killer who wanted to, I think he killed that chicken to bail out his brother. In other words, in Sayid’s mind he was doing what he thought had to be done for the greater good (helping his brother).[/quote]
    Yes, yes yes!!! I agree on this, Flyboy. I think that was what was wonderful about this episode and Sayid’s character. Sayid really doesn’t want to be a killer. His life had a purpose at various points like you said above–he was helping someone or some cause. How heartfelt was it when he said ‘I really don’t like killing’???

    And I thought, Ilana, those plastic cuffs? Child’s play for Sayid, but he doesn’t care anymore. He’s been bereft of all direction and purpose. He’ll go to Guam and face the family of the man he killed–so what? It doesn’t matter. And then, boom, crash, capture, a boy offers him a sandwich.

    All Sayid’s thoughts about himself, the way his life has gone, the dark pit of his conflicts about who he wants to be and who he is, he sees little Ben and this is what it has come down to. THIS is his last purpose, stop the monster here and now.

    Does he remember himself as a little boy before all his choices made him the man he doesn’t want to be anymore? Is he killing more than Ben, is he killing the monster in himself?

    And now, like Jack when he talks to Sawyer, he’s not the man he was (oh, crumbs, I’m getting all Dickensian!)–so it’s a bleak kind of emptying of the soul.

    Ugh, it’s raining, and gloomy, and so are my thoughts!!!

    Best, Liz

  271. Rita says:

    Since others of the “named missing” have weighed in, I will too.

    We are ALL here because we love LOST! We love it so much that we spend hours every week reading every post and taking notes on ideas we want to explore or comment on. Everyone’s thought are important and add to the general discussion. Everyone’s. Even when people don’t agree with us, sometimes it sparks another idea or thought, and leads to some great debate. We come here because it is fun.

    All of us were once new here. It is scary to jump in and post an idea – hoping that others will embrace it and validate it; after-all, to you (and me!), it is the most brilliant and insightful idea that has ever come down the pike and we just want to share our excitement about it. :) Then comes the waiting to see what others think of our “baby”. (Come on admit it – haven’t you felt this way?) What often happens is either no one bites or (horrors!) points out the obvious flaw in our thinking. Maybe someone just disagrees. This has happened to ALL OF US countless times. It might be tempting to feel slighted or disappointed, but I REALLY DON’T BELIEVE it is ever meant to be a slam on ANYONE. Just more lively debate. Coming to conclusions based on the evidence. Clarifying what really is happening. Remember that we do this because it is fun? :)

    When you come here a lot, you recognize names and start to see these posters as “friends”. Most of us don’t get to live with people who are as obsessed as we are, so we have to come here for that! You look forward to seeing what they have to say. Each of us has our favorites and they ARE NOT just the “named missing”. I love it here, and I know most of you feel the same way. Did I mention that we come here because it is fun?

    Everyone is welcome here and everyone should feel free to post their ideas, any time. There are some very simple rules that “police” this blog and help to keep it FUN for everyone.

    Now, can we get back to talking about the show? It’s only fun if everyone keeps it that way. :)
    Rita

  272. Locke is Jacob says:

    Long time reader, first time poster…

    Earlier this season, our first scene when everyone was at the marina..

    Sayid: “If if see you (Ben) or you (Jack), it will not be a pleasant experience”

    In this past episode…

    Sayid: “If I see you(Ben) again, it will not be a pleasant experience”

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but was Jack even in the scene from this week? I know this could have been edited since we have seen it before, but what if is something more. Are we sure things can’t change???

  273. Scubbuh Mike says:

    wow @ #244. you guys need to change the title of this weeks blog to — diary of a middle-age dharma queen –

  274. wingman says:

    LMAO, I know I’m once again late to the party, but I never thought in a million years I’d see an episode of LOST where someone actually choked the chicken!

  275. Jim in Georgia says:

    Locke is Jacob said:

    Long time reader, first time poster…

    Earlier this season, our first scene when everyone was at the marina..

    Sayid: “If if see you (Ben) or you (Jack), it will not be a pleasant experience”

    In this past episode…

    Sayid: “If I see you(Ben) again, it will not be a pleasant experience”

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but was Jack even in the scene from this week? I know this could have been edited since we have seen it before, but what if is something more. Are we sure things can’t change???

    * * * * *

    Welcome! from another new guy.

    Whose body are we in? I know, weird question. I think different times we see a scene that we’re inside the body (that is perceiving the events from the perspective) of different people.

    Think about the time Sayid went into Hurley’s room at Santa Rosa. Hurley was playing chess with Mr. Eko. We couldn’t see Mr. Eko because we were following the events from Sayid’s POV and he couldn’t see Mr. Eko.

    Back to the Marina. The first time we saw the scene, was from Jack’s perspective. Jack is intimidated by Sayid (who wouldn’t be?) and he hears Sayid include him in the threat. However, when we see and hear from Sayid’s perspective, we only hear Ben mentioned because that’s all Sayid really said. I think Jack was there in the “He’s Our You” version of the scene even if the Camera didn’t show him; he had to be; it was the same scene in the (Lost) real world.

    I think Daniel is right. There’s one street. No new realities.

    8) Jim

  276. wingman says:

    @Locke is Jacob – It was edited just to include the Ben and Sayid stuff as their relationship was the main point of the episode…You’re not going crazy…Probably a technique used to keep the casual watcher on-course (as if casual watchers still exist^^)…

  277. Rumblestilskin says:

    Tiny bit off-subject, but in the episode “The shape of things to come”, from season 4, at the very end, Charles Widmore tells Ben “I know who you are boy….what you are.”

    I wonder if that comment is supposed to be more significant than anyone seems to be giving it credit for.

  278. Miss Kim says:

    I got a little help from a naughty black swan!!! Apparently the morse code thing was similar to one of the cheats in the first part of DWY. Here’s a link to an on-line morse code translator to help you out if you need it. http://tinyurl.com/b4eng

  279. Miss Kim says:

    Whoops! Wrong window. I thought I was posting on a different site. Sorry!

  280. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”325227″]Can we review the bidding on “What happened, happened;” not the episode, the concept.

    Suppose what it really means is, “What happened on the grand scale of things happened.”

    Take the French science expedition.

    Version 1: The Bésixdouze sinks, the occupants wash up on the beach with the rescued Jin, the Monster attacks, Jin identifies it, the Monster drags Montand into the hole, everyone goes down into the hole except Danielle because Jin tells her not to, the French men come out of the hole and go crazy and Danielle shoots all of them except Jin who she misses and, maybe, Montand.

    Version 2: The Bésixdouze sinks, the occupants wash up on the beach without Jin, the Monster attacks, Jin is not there to identify it but so what, the Monster drags Montand into the hole, everyone goes down into the hole except Danielle because she thinks for a moment and says “I’m pregnant, I can’t climb down there,” the French men come out of the hole and go crazy and Danielle shoots all of them except Jin (well, he’s not French) who isn’t there and, maybe, Montand.

    The result of both versions is that there’s one French woman, one French baby girl and, maybe, one French man on the Island. It doesn’t really matter if Jin was or wasn’t there.

    Time marches on.

    8) Jim[/quote]

    I know what you’re getting at, and it may be possible that there are two versions of events with slightly different details, but the same end results. Basically, this would be the “course correction” Ms. Hawking mentioned in “Flashes Before Your Eyes”. In that episode, Desmond bought the ring for Penny, even though Ms. H said he’s not supposed to buy it, because the first time around he didn’t buy it. Eventually he throws the ring away, and splits with Penny, so that important end result is still the same, it’s just that the details of how they got there were different.

    However, I do believe that when Daniel has been saying “whatever happened, happened”, he is referring to the details, not just the big picture. So, in your example, I believe Version 1 is what always happened, and that there was never a Version 2.

    Now, we may never get a real answer to this. I think a lot of the “rules” that have been presented to us in the show are generally only applicable to the episodes they were introduced in, or the episodes that followed shortly thereafter. They’re just story-telling devices, really.

    For example, the course correction rule was only important in Flashes Before Your Eyes, and then in the episodes leading up to Charlie’s death. I can’t recall any other episodes where course correction was an issue.

    The idea of a “constant” was only important to the episode “the Constant”, and I truly believe the only reason they had Faraday came up with that idea was to add to the drama of that episode. It really drove the Penny-Desmond plotline of that episode, and made for a really emotional reunion (via phone) between the two of them. There has been no mention of a constant in any other episode. I know it’s been frequently discusse, “who is each character’s constant”, but I don’t think it matters outside of the episode “The Constant”.

    And finally the “whatever happened happened rule” – I simply think it was explained to us like that so we won’t keep wondering if the Losties are going to be changing the future by going back in time. And I wouldn’t be surprised if after this season, TPTB are done with time travelling and the “whatever happened happened rule”.

  281. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment=”325362″][quote comment=”325227″]Can we review the bidding on “What happened, happened;” not the episode, the concept.

    8) Jim[/quote]

    I know what you’re getting at, and it may be possible that there are two versions of events with slightly different details, but the same end results. Basically, this would be the “course correction” Ms. Hawking mentioned in “Flashes Before Your Eyes”.

    In that episode, Desmond bought the ring for Penny, even though Ms. H said he’s not supposed to buy it, because the first time around he didn’t buy it. Eventually he throws the ring away, and splits with Penny, so that important end result is still the same, it’s just that the details of how they got there were different.

    However, I do believe that when Daniel has been saying “whatever happened, happened”, he is referring to the details, not just the big picture. So, in your example, I believe Version 1 is what always happened, and that there was never a Version 2.

    Now, we may never get a real answer to this. I think a lot of the “rules” that have been presented to us in the show are generally only applicable to the episodes they were introduced in, or the episodes that followed shortly thereafter. They’re just story-telling devices, really.

    For example, the course correction rule was only important in Flashes Before Your Eyes, and then in the episodes leading up to Charlie’s death. I can’t recall any other episodes where course correction was an issue.

    The idea of a “constant” was only important to the episode “the Constant”, and I truly believe the only reason they had Faraday came up with that idea was to add to the drama of that episode. It really drove the Penny-Desmond plotline of that episode, and made for a really emotional reunion (via phone) between the two of them. There has been no mention of a constant in any other episode. I know it’s been frequently discusse, “who is each character’s constant”, but I don’t think it matters outside of the episode “The Constant”.

    And finally the “whatever happened happened rule” – I simply think it was explained to us like that so we won’t keep wondering if the Losties are going to be changing the future by going back in time. And I wouldn’t be surprised if after this season, TPTB are done with time travelling and the “whatever happened happened rule”.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Okay, good point. I’m glad you mentioned constants, btw. I was driven to distraction by all the “constant theories” during the time flashes. Many people grab a local concept and try to apply it globally.

    I do think that Desmond being Daniel’s constant may be important; I’m pretty sure that Daniel was unstuck at the beginning of “Confirmed Dead” and that the identity of Theresa’s constant (I think she’s unstuck) may be important, but that’s the end of the line. Daniel’s “not there any more” (Sawyer, approximately). What does that mean?

    8) Jim

  282. DIana says:

    Notetaking. Wow you guys r hardcore. I never thought of that. It makes sense in order to keep up with everything going on with show. This season is the first time I’ve used the blog. So when I read the comments I say to myself how can they remember that. Now I know how. I didn’t watch lost from the beginning. A friend of mine talked about it all the time. I watched the pilot ep for the first time last june and got hooked. I watched all four seasons within 2 months. I was so addicted I remember watching 6 eps in 1 day. Even though I watched all four seasons recently, there was stuff posted on here about past eps that I didn’t remember. Like I said now I know how.

    I’ve only posted twice before this time and never felt that other people thought my theory was “wrong”. I have read all the comments not because I wanted to post my comment and not get “yelled” at but because I’m interesting in what everyone has to say. There is no way I would of thought of some of these theories. Now that I put my 2 cents in. I still think sun didn’t flash because she didn’t bring her daughter back. After all the island is the reason she got pregnant in the first place. Second jack still makes a better leader than sawyer. If jack was calling the shots he would never had allowed anything to happen to sayid (jail, chef ben, and odom). He surely wouldn’t voted to kill sayid. But in a way I think jack feels a little relief and doesn’t have all that weight on his shoulders. But not for long, jack will have take leadership soon because sawyer is very comfortable playing house but the losties are going to want to go back to their time.

  283. Ridiculous says:

    It is quite suspect that the so-called “regulars” have stopped posting and there are a lot more “newbies”….I’m guessing it is NOT a coincidence….too bad you can be whoever you want to be when you blog!!!

    And just for the record PJ, I could care less why you and company are maintaining “radio silence”….everyone needs to get over themselves.

  284. Circus Mom says:

    Since my friends have weighed in I will too.

    I post here, and on other Lost blogs because I love puzzles and Lost is the most interesting, most fun puzzle I have ever worked on. Discussing our theorys and ideas here and getting feedback aids in solving the puzzle and is a break from work and “real life” I have never posted on a blog for any other subject.
    Getting feedback on my ideas, whether agreeing with me to further my theory or totally disproving me is great. The only responses I dislike, for anyone, are those that contain personal insults such as “are you a idiot”, and those using profanity.
    The worst thing, for me, is to have my comment ignored. I would prefer a spirited debate over that.
    Leah’s comments on this thread were personal attacks on several posters and were quite angry and agressive. I have seen her do this before and can only hope that like that time she will calm down and become a friendly poster again.
    I also want to comment to Ridiculous that I have not posted here under any other names and I don’t beleive my friends are doing that either. I think we have a lot of genuion newbees and I welcome them. You, I beleive, have posted before under another name. Not angry, just pointing it out.
    Lost is fun, lets keep it that way.

  285. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325405″]
    Second jack still makes a better leader than sawyer. If jack was calling the shots he would never had allowed anything to happen to sayid (jail, chef ben, and odom). He surely wouldn’t voted to kill sayid. But in a way I think jack feels a little relief and doesn’t have all that weight on his shoulders. But not for long, jack will have take leadership soon because sawyer is very comfortable playing house but the losties are going to want to go back to their time.[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Let’s not forget that Jack shot John at the end of season 4. He is also a drug addict (not that I care, but I don’t know if that makes him a better leader).

    To me the best leader is Benjamin Linus. I don’t know where this show will be without him. There is no great drama without a great villian.

  286. hank vega says:

    Regarding this blog’s incident. I wrote a post last week defending Frank of what to me was a bully attack (even though I didn’t agree with his language or theories). After that, a few people wrote stating similar things. At the end, it wasn’t more than four or five people complaining about the so called elite.

    So the incident was mainly created by them and their need to feel important, which is quite sad. A few posts could never shut you down if you feel strong about yourself and your behavior.

    Nobody is irreplaceable in this world, if you remove yourself, someone else will take your place. If you don’t believe me, ask Kate. So please, keep the radio silence. It’s nice here when is this quiet.

  287. Trim B >=: says:

    [quote comment=”325422″]
    To me the best leader is Benjamin Linus. [/quote]
    I think they said the same thing about Hitler at one point. I understand that was one show you could not miss either.

  288. DIana says:

    Let’s not forget that Jack shot John at the end of season 4. He is also a drug addict (not that I care, but I don’t know if that makes him a better leader). To me the best leader is Benjamin Linus. I don’t know where this show will be without him. There is no great drama without a great villian.

    ——–

    You are right about ben, he makes agreat villian. I don’t know where the show would be without him. Ben is a great leader for his pepole the others not the losties. Jack might be a drug addict but don’t forget ben is a killer. And if I remember correctly jack shot john because he was in the way of them getting off the island. John desired to get shot and don’t forget john had also claim to be the leader of the others.

  289. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325443″]Let’s not forget that Jack shot John at the end of season 4. He is also a drug addict (not that I care, but I don’t know if that makes him a better leader). To me the best leader is Benjamin Linus. I don’t know where this show will be without him. There is no great drama without a great villian.

    ——–

    You are right about ben, he makes agreat villian. I don’t know where the show would be without him. Ben is a great leader for his pepole the others not the losties. Jack might be a drug addict but don’t forget ben is a killer. And if I remember correctly jack shot john because he was in the way of them getting off the island. John desired to get shot and don’t forget john had also claim to be the leader of the others.[/quote]

    ——————————–

    I am wondering what is the real importance of John Locke in the whole story. Unless something drastically change, he would never be the leader of anything, which should be pretty obvious to Richard as it is for Ben. So why do they think he is so important? If the story is really on a loop, John is either Jacob or he is going to kill someone of similar importance.

  290. Jim in Georgia says:

    A question from a new guy: Is there something wrong with taking notes? I was taught years ago that notes are a memory aid. I edit a lot on the LP, and the people most likely to drive me crazy are the ones on enter: “I seem to remember from season 3…” Look it up, take a note (oooh!) and get back to us.

    The same thing applies here or anywhere else you’re providing input.

    Oh, by the way, I really am a new guy.

    8) Jim

  291. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”325467″]A question from a new guy: Is there something wrong with taking notes? I was taught years ago that notes are a memory aid. I edit a lot on the LP, and the people most likely to drive me crazy are the ones on enter: “I seem to remember from season 3…” Look it up, take a note (oooh!) and get back to us.

    The same thing applies here or anywhere else you’re providing input.

    Oh, by the way, I really am a new guy.

    8) Jim[/quote]

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with taking notes…I do it during the show and when I’m catching up on all the posts on here! I don’t have time to re-watch every episode three or four times so if I don’t take notes, I’ll be lost (pun intended)! Keep it up Jim, your theories are very interesting and you’ve done good work at LP!

  292. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325284″][quote comment=”324627″]Okay. I am thinking out loud now.

    Like Locke Ben will recover from the gunshot wound. This may be why Ben shot Locke in the first place. Ben will join the others and like Locke will have to prove himself by killing his father. He then becomes the leader of the others. Even though Sayid thought he was changing the future by killing Ben, this is another example of how time will course correct itself.

    Faraday is running around the island trying to figure this whole thing out. This season ends with the purge. Then Faraday goes back and turns the donkey wheel. The island goes back to near present time and Faraday gets zapped back to the desert. Widmore sees Faraday with his cameras and brings him back to Oxford and funds his work. Back on the island the 2007 group and the 1977 group meet.[/quote]

    I always believed that there was another way off the island (agree with earlier post that this must be true in orde for Ben’s closet’s full of suits and passports to make sense). But it occurs to me that this additional time machine/teleportation method may have been uncovered/developed by Farraday in 1974-77. Maybe be discovered or developed the method and used it to leave the island to go where/when he went. Ben must have been using the new travel method (I used to call it Ben’s secret closet) since using the donkey wheel causes the visible, massive manifestations.Hammer, anyone – thoughts, am I off base?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    My thoughts….

    For sure there is more than one way off the island. Taking the correct bearing will do it.

    More than one way to time travel is your better question. The closet is interesting, and I think it’s been brought up on this blog before. But now is a good time to revisit. Does that closet lead to the tunnels? Ben seemed to summons Smokey once before going into those tunnels. Maybe one of the things the tunnels leads to another way to time travel without moving the island’s physical location like turning the wheel does.

    I think that IF there is another way to TT without turning the wheel, Ben chose to turn the wheel for the pusposes of putting Widmore back a few steps since he was close, no?

  293. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325405″]Second jack still makes a better leader than sawyer. If jack was calling the shots he would never had allowed anything to happen to sayid (jail, chef ben, and odom). He surely wouldn’t voted to kill sayid. But in a way I think jack feels a little relief and doesn’t have all that weight on his shoulders. But not for long, jack will have take leadership soon because sawyer is very comfortable playing house but the losties are going to want to go back to their time.[/quote]

    I agree. I think/hope we’ll see Jack come full-circle. I think Sawyer has probably done well leading the LOSTies in their ongoing life of deception, but I imagine that the circumstances they’ve faced haven’t been the dire ones that Jack has led them through. FWIW, I think Sawyer voted to “kill” Sayid so as not to draw more attention to himself, and only because he knew that he was going to set Sayid free before it happened.

    : ) P

  294. Toeknee says:

    Regarding the note-taking, no there’s nothing wrong with it. My guess is it’s a matter of sour grapes on the part of those who complained about it. But to clarify, for Diana’s sake (re: comment #282), I don’t think anyone has been keeping a notebook since season 1 – that’s what http://www.Lostpedia.com is for. I think some people perhaps take notes during a particular episode for discussion here or on other discussion boards. But one aspect that was discussed on here several weeks ago is that people here take notes as they read through the comments. It makes it easier to keep track when you’re catching up on 300 comments. Also, it helps avoid repeating things others have said. For example if in comment #4 there’s a question that I can answer, I’ll make a note of it, and if it’s answered in some other comment, I’ll cross it off my list. But if no one else answered it, then I will do so.

  295. Jason says:

    [quote comment=”324525″]i’m really surprised at the number of people in this forum of die hard lost-watchers who believe that a) ben is dead, and that b) we are entering a new timeline.

    there is ONE timeline, folks. we’re are literally getting pieces of the puzzle that snap into place – and the picture of the puzzle is not changing. even desmond, while he is able to affect some changes, is still affecting changes to pieces of the puzzle that have not yet been put into place.

    ben’s father was NOT in the burning dharma van. we SAW him die in 1992 from the gas during the purge. i repeat, the TIMELINE IS NOT CHANGING.[/quote]
    I totally, 100% agree with you here.

  296. DannL75 says:

    Kinda off topic, but on AOL television, Lost was #3 best drama of all time following only behind Sopranos & NYPD Blue.

  297. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325362″]
    The idea of a “constant” was only important to the episode “the Constant”, and I truly believe the only reason they had Faraday came up with that idea was to add to the drama of that episode.
    [/quote]
    I have to disagree with that. I think it will come up again. I think “Desmond Hume is my constant” was written in Daniel’s book for a reason. Where is Daniel anyways? He may be off already traveling through time. I do agree about the course-correction so far because WHH, I think.

  298. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”325485″][quote comment=”324525″]i’m really surprised at the number of people in this forum of die hard lost-watchers who believe that a) ben is dead, and that b) we are entering a new timeline.

    there is ONE timeline, folks. we’re are literally getting pieces of the puzzle that snap into place – and the picture of the puzzle is not changing. even desmond, while he is able to affect some changes, is still affecting changes to pieces of the puzzle that have not yet been put into place.

    ben’s father was NOT in the burning dharma van. we SAW him die in 1992 from the gas during the purge. i repeat, the TIMELINE IS NOT CHANGING.[/quote]
    I totally, 100% agree with you here.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    POSSIBLY, we should be looking at these episodes as “flashbacks” – if WHH, if they can’t change anything, then we are only seeing what DID, ALREADY happen.

  299. Jim NOT in Georgia (therefore have not married my cousin and or sibling) says:

    [quote comment=”325478″][quote comment=”325284″][quote comment=”324627″]Okay. I am thinking out loud now.

    Like Locke Ben will recover from the gunshot wound. This may be why Ben shot Locke in the first place. Ben will join the others and like Locke will have to prove himself by killing his father. He then becomes the leader of the others. Even though Sayid thought he was changing the future by killing Ben, this is another example of how time will course correct itself.

    Faraday is running around the island trying to figure this whole thing out. This season ends with the purge. Then Faraday goes back and turns the donkey wheel. The island goes back to near present time and Faraday gets zapped back to the desert. Widmore sees Faraday with his cameras and brings him back to Oxford and funds his work. Back on the island the 2007 group and the 1977 group meet.[/quote]

    I always believed that there was another way off the island (agree with earlier post that this must be true in orde for Ben’s closet’s full of suits and passports to make sense). But it occurs to me that this additional time machine/teleportation method may have been uncovered/developed by Farraday in 1974-77. Maybe be discovered or developed the method and used it to leave the island to go where/when he went. Ben must have been using the new travel method (I used to call it Ben’s secret closet) since using the donkey wheel causes the visible, massive manifestations.Hammer, anyone – thoughts, am I off base?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    My thoughts….

    For sure there is more than one way off the island. Taking the correct bearing will do it.

    More than one way to time travel is your better question. The closet is interesting, and I think it’s been brought up on this blog before. But now is a good time to revisit. Does that closet lead to the tunnels? Ben seemed to summons Smokey once before going into those tunnels. Maybe one of the things the tunnels leads to another way to time travel without moving the island’s physical location like turning the wheel does.

    I think that IF there is another way to TT without turning the wheel, Ben chose to turn the wheel for the pusposes of putting Widmore back a few steps since he was close, no?[/quote]

    _______________________________________

    COMPLETELY agree. We have to keep in mind that EVERYTHING ben does is for a reason. He wanted the island to skip (massive flashes), he wanted Sayid to shoot him. He is exactly were he wants to be. He obviously has a way off and on the island we don’t know about yet.

    My guess is that we have seen various “Ben’s” just as we have seen various “Farraday’s” as in from different “times” but with a superior understanding of “the record” that needs to be played in order to accomplish their ultimate goals (saving Charlotte for Dan/ control of the island for Ben?)

    ’nuff said

  300. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325424″]Regarding this blog’s incident.

    So the incident was mainly created by them and their need to feel important, which is quite sad. [/quote]
    I feel I need to add my two cents as I have been blogging here for quite some time, at least more than 2 threads.

    You must have misread last week because frank clearly started the hostility.

    COMMENT #397 HAMMER : Go to the Theories section of this blog and scroll down to the Whisperers Theory. I the “almighty me” was graciously given a thread and there is some ‘evidence’ there.
    COMMENT 398 FRANK : cool thanks

    It started off very friendly with KIND and HELPFUL directions for frank to follow up on, if he wanted to “roll around” his idea and debate it. But instead he went the other way

    COMMENT 417 FRANK : So Hammer, because you have your own theory about the whispers, it makes it the generally accepted theory?? I didn’t realize that you too were on the island and have been to the future…thanks for the insight on the show and letting me know what is going to happen…I thought a blog was for people to share ideas and theories, not have them shot down by you.

    Like you, I usually feel the need to defend people that are unjustly picked on. Frank was not, IMO. He opened the can. I think his first mistake was saying “haven’t had time to read all the comments”. Again JMO.

    I hope we can ALL move on from this for those of you that care.

  301. DocH says:

    Hammer wrote
    For sure there is more than one way off the island. Taking the correct bearing will do it.
    – – – –
    I am still of the mind that Juliet was placed in a “machine” in South Florida when she was recruited. Zapped (not time zapped) and teleported to the “Looking Glass” station. Still under sedation, she was loaded on the sub, taken to the dock and revived.

    Since we have exit teleportation to Tunisia in uncontrolled circumstances, why can’t we have routine to/from teleportation under controlled conditions?

  302. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325478″]
    I think that IF there is another way to TT without turning the wheel, Ben chose to turn the wheel for the pusposes of putting Widmore back a few steps since he was close, no?[/quote]
    Sure it put Widmore back a few steps but I also think he did not have a way to get off the island after the sub blew up and they LOST communications with the mainland after Locke also blew up Mikhail’s station. Was Mikhail’s station the same station we see Phil in currently?

  303. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment=”325478″][quote comment=”325284″][quote comment=”324627″]Okay. I am thinking out loud now.

    Like Locke Ben will recover from the gunshot wound. This may be why Ben shot Locke in the first place. Ben will join the others and like Locke will have to prove himself by killing his father. He then becomes the leader of the others. Even though Sayid thought he was changing the future by killing Ben, this is another example of how time will course correct itself.

    Faraday is running around the island trying to figure this whole thing out. This season ends with the purge. Then Faraday goes back and turns the donkey wheel. The island goes back to near present time and Faraday gets zapped back to the desert. Widmore sees Faraday with his cameras and brings him back to Oxford and funds his work. Back on the island the 2007 group and the 1977 group meet.[/quote]

    I always believed that there was another way off the island (agree with earlier post that this must be true in orde for Ben’s closet’s full of suits and passports to make sense). But it occurs to me that this additional time machine/teleportation method may have been uncovered/developed by Farraday in 1974-77. Maybe be discovered or developed the method and used it to leave the island to go where/when he went. Ben must have been using the new travel method (I used to call it Ben’s secret closet) since using the donkey wheel causes the visible, massive manifestations.Hammer, anyone – thoughts, am I off base?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    My thoughts….

    For sure there is more than one way off the island. Taking the correct bearing will do it.

    More than one way to time travel is your better question. The closet is interesting, and I think it’s been brought up on this blog before. But now is a good time to revisit. Does that closet lead to the tunnels? Ben seemed to summons Smokey once before going into those tunnels. Maybe one of the things the tunnels leads to another way to time travel without moving the island’s physical location like turning the wheel does.

    I think that IF there is another way to TT without turning the wheel, Ben chose to turn the wheel for the pusposes of putting Widmore back a few steps since he was close, no?[/quote]

    * * * * *

    The spot in Tunisia is “the Exit,” but it’s the hard exit for wheel turners. I have thought for a long time that the exit from (and entry to) the Island is the Looking Glass. People who are going to the Island are sedated in a “departure lounge” and told they’ll be assisted onto the submarine but that they probably won’t remember much. When the drug begins to take effect, they are helped into a teleportation room from which they are zapped to the Looking Glass and carried or helped onto the submarine. They wake up in the boat and exit onto the pier. Do it in reverse for the outbound trip. It keeps people from puking all over themselves and their nice suits. Key point: No one but management and others with a need to know learns about the Looking Glass. The Looking Glass probably isn’t the only spot on the Island; the Others would not have had the Looking Glass when Locke asked how to get off the Island back in ’54 and Richard told him it was privileged information. The Temple is as good a candidate as any. Teleportation terminals have to available in multiple locations in the Exterior. Horace told Sawyer that he and his party could make their way home from Tahiti, which must be a terminal. It wouldn’t have done any good for them to wake up in a back room at Herarat Aviation (another candidate, such as for Juliet and later Richard).

    8) Jim

  304. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”325502″][quote comment=”325478″]
    I think that IF there is another way to TT without turning the wheel, Ben chose to turn the wheel for the pusposes of putting Widmore back a few steps since he was close, no?[/quote]
    Sure it put Widmore back a few steps but I also think he did not have a way to get off the island after the sub blew up and they LOST communications with the mainland after Locke also blew up Mikhail’s station. Was Mikhail’s station the same station we see Phil in currently?[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Maybe, but I am a believer that “Ben always has a plan” – I agree that there is another way off the island but I am thinking that there may be a way ONLY KNOWN TO BEN. He wouldn’t allow anyone else to use it, in order to keep this secret knowledge to himself. It allows him to stay ahead of Widmore.

  305. FFam5 says:

    [quote comment=”325502″][quote comment=”325478″]
    I think that IF there is another way to TT without turning the wheel, Ben chose to turn the wheel for the pusposes of putting Widmore back a few steps since he was close, no?[/quote]
    Sure it put Widmore back a few steps but I also think he did not have a way to get off the island after the sub blew up and they LOST communications with the mainland after Locke also blew up Mikhail’s station. Was Mikhail’s station the same station we see Phil in currently?[/quote]

    ****

    Mikhail was stationed at the Flame.

    Not sure what station Phil is at but I’m pretty sure it locate at Dhramaville — Could be part of the complex where Ben was held by Locke last season.

  306. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325501″]Hammer wrote
    For sure there is more than one way off the island. Taking the correct bearing will do it.
    – – – –
    I am still of the mind that Juliet was placed in a “machine” in South Florida when she was recruited. Zapped (not time zapped) and teleported to the “Looking Glass” station. Still under sedation, she was loaded on the sub, taken to the dock and revived.

    Since we have exit teleportation to Tunisia in uncontrolled circumstances, why can’t we have routine to/from teleportation under controlled conditions?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I tend to agree, but Michael and Walt (as far as we know) and the O6 all left without the ‘machine’. I guess I am saying I think there is at least 3 ways to leave the island.

  307. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325506″][quote comment=”325502″][quote comment=”325478″]
    I think that IF there is another way to TT without turning the wheel, Ben chose to turn the wheel for the pusposes of putting Widmore back a few steps since he was close, no?[/quote]
    Sure it put Widmore back a few steps but I also think he did not have a way to get off the island after the sub blew up and they LOST communications with the mainland after Locke also blew up Mikhail’s station. Was Mikhail’s station the same station we see Phil in currently?[/quote]

    ****

    Mikhail was stationed at the Flame.

    Not sure what station Phil is at but I’m pretty sure it locate at Dhramaville — Could be part of the complex where Ben was held by Locke last season.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    TY. The flame.

    I thought it looked like it was located away from the barracks. When Jin comes running out chasing Sayid it appears to be in an isolated area.

  308. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325503″][* * * * *

    The spot in Tunisia is “the Exit,” but it’s the hard exit for wheel turners. I have thought for a long time that the exit from (and entry to) the Island is the Looking Glass. People who are going to the Island are sedated in a “departure lounge” and told they’ll be assisted onto the submarine but that they probably won’t remember much. When the drug begins to take effect, they are helped into a teleportation room from which they are zapped to the Looking Glass and carried or helped onto the submarine. They wake up in the boat and exit onto the pier. Do it in reverse for the outbound trip. It keeps people from puking all over themselves and their nice suits. Key point: No one but management and others with a need to know learns about the Looking Glass. The Looking Glass probably isn’t the only spot on the Island; the Others would not have had the Looking Glass when Locke asked how to get off the Island back in ’54 and Richard told him it was privileged information. The Temple is as good a candidate as any. Teleportation terminals have to available in multiple locations in the Exterior. Horace told Sawyer that he and his party could make their way home from Tahiti, which must be a terminal. It wouldn’t have done any good for them to wake up in a back room at Herarat Aviation (another candidate, such as for Juliet and later Richard).

    8) Jim[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I get ya.

  309. Hammer says:

    I think the Temple will be key to alot of what is going on. Again maybe the tunnels that DocH likes lead there and that is where we find Smokey, and the other TT machine, whisperer, etc.

  310. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325505″][/quote]
    ____________________________________
    I agree that there is another way off the island but I am thinking that there may be a way ONLY KNOWN TO BEN. He wouldn’t allow anyone else to use it, in order to keep this secret knowledge to himself. It allows him to stay ahead of Widmore.[/quote]
    +++++++++
    I think ALL the real Others know about it. Alpert likely has used it as we have seen him off the island several times, Ethan went with him at least once, right?

  311. Frank says:

    [quote comment=”325501″]Hammer wrote
    For sure there is more than one way off the island. Taking the correct bearing will do it.
    – – – –
    I am still of the mind that Juliet was placed in a “machine” in South Florida when she was recruited. Zapped (not time zapped) and teleported to the “Looking Glass” station. Still under sedation, she was loaded on the sub, taken to the dock and revived.

    Since we have exit teleportation to Tunisia in uncontrolled circumstances, why can’t we have routine to/from teleportation under controlled conditions?[/quote]
    I had always thought she had been durgged as a way to prevent what happened to Desmond but South Florida is near the Bermuda Triangle. Vile Vortices anyone?

  312. Jim in Georgia says:

    There is, of course, a distinction between traveling between the Island and the Exterior on missions (Do you still get jet lag? ) and turning the wheel to move the Island, which also results in redeeming your frequent flier miles for a trip to the scenic Tunisian desert.

    8) Jim

  313. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325517″][quote comment=”325501″]Hammer wrote
    For sure there is more than one way off the island. Taking the correct bearing will do it.
    – – – –
    I am still of the mind that Juliet was placed in a “machine” in South Florida when she was recruited. Zapped (not time zapped) and teleported to the “Looking Glass” station. Still under sedation, she was loaded on the sub, taken to the dock and revived.

    Since we have exit teleportation to Tunisia in uncontrolled circumstances, why can’t we have routine to/from teleportation under controlled conditions?[/quote]
    I had always thought she had been durgged as a way to prevent what happened to Desmond but South Florida is near the Bermuda Triangle. Vile Vortices anyone?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Just my opinion:

    I think she was drugged to prevent what happened to Locke and Ben (puking after the bumpy ride). I thought that what happended to Desmond and Minkowski was what happens when you travel outside of the ‘current’ correct bearing.

  314. Jim in Georgia says:

    Shall we keep a record?

    “Jim NOT in Georgia (therefore have not married my cousin and or sibling)” may be the longest Internet blogging name in the history of the sport.

    Poor guy. He has also confused Georgia with… No, I won’t go there; there are forty-nine candidates.

    Jeff Foxworthy this guy ain’t!

    8) Jim

  315. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325513″]
    I think ALL the real Others know about it. Alpert likely has used it as we have seen him off the island several times, Ethan went with him at least once, right?[/quote]
    Ethan went with him to recruit Juliet. That episode was on the WB last night. He helped recruit the woman that delivered him.

    Tom was also off the island. Richard visited Locke in 1954 well before the hippy submarine was blown up and the Looking Glass was built. This question has bothered me for awhile, how else did they get to and fro from the island ? Hopefully a Season 5 answer just as the TT issue. JMO.

  316. Tito XVII says:

    [quote comment=”325522″]
    Jeff Foxworthy this guy ain’t!
    [/quote]
    [quote comment=”325494″]
    ’nuff said
    [/quote]
    ’nuff said – – that is classic gmta leah (think one step below larry the cable guy) from manchester UK. she is just trying to stir up the flames after her pms-ing departure yesterday.

  317. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”325523″][quote comment=”325513″]
    I think ALL the real Others know about it. Alpert likely has used it as we have seen him off the island several times, Ethan went with him at least once, right?[/quote]
    Ethan went with him to recruit Juliet. That episode was on the WB last night. He helped recruit the woman that delivered him.

    Tom was also off the island. Richard visited Locke in 1954 well before the hippy submarine was blown up and the Looking Glass was built. This question has bothered me for awhile, how else did they get to and fro from the island ? Hopefully a Season 5 answer just as the TT issue. JMO.[/quote]

    I think that either way you get off the island, you still have to wait for the “windows” to open. So people in the know probably have worked out some kind of a schedule of when they can leave. Tom said to Michael that he didn’t get a chance to get off the island much. The sub in 1977 only departs at certain times etc.

    It is interesting though how the Others and Dharma both use the same method of the submarine. Others seem to copycat alot though…(its the same subamarine) If there is this whole process of being “zapped”, or teleported, do you think that the Dharma folks know this stuff? Does Horace know he was “Zapped?” -either he does, or someone else above him is in control of the sub operation.—-Widmore, who is running Dharma from the island as an Other maybe? Thats my guess.

  318. wallyp says:

    Ok, been a long day… didn’t seperate my comment again (317)… It starts after Lost4Evers JMO… I hate when that happens!

  319. Hammer says:

    Good points wallyp. Hopefully we will find out soon how the on/off island traveling works…there is still the possibility that the sub isn’t just a front on the island…it may be used to transport folks. They got all the material and supplies on the island somehow(ferry?).

  320. DIana says:

    [quote comment=”325481″]Regarding the note-taking, no there’s nothing wrong with it. My guess is it’s a matter of sour grapes on the part of those who complained about it. But to clarify, for Diana’s sake (re: comment #282), I don’t think anyone has been keeping a notebook since season 1 – that’s what http://www.Lostpedia.com is for. I think some people perhaps take notes during a particular episode for discussion here or on other discussion boards. But one aspect that was discussed on here several weeks ago is that people here take notes as they read through the comments. It makes it easier to keep track when you’re catching up on 300 comments. Also, it helps avoid repeating things others have said. For example if in comment #4 there’s a question that I can answer, I’ll make a note of it, and if it’s answered in some other comment, I’ll cross it off my list. But if no one else answered it, then I will do so.[/quote]
    __________________________________

    Thanks for clarifying for me. I am sorry if it sounded like I thought note taking was a bad thing. IT A REALLY GOOD THING. I just never thought of it.

  321. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment=”325538″][quote comment=”325522″]
    Jeff Foxworthy this guy ain’t!
    [/quote]
    [quote comment=”325494″]
    ’nuff said
    [/quote]
    ’nuff said – – that is classic gmta leah (think one step below larry the cable guy) from manchester UK. she is just trying to stir up the flames after her pms-ing departure yesterday.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Thank you! I haven’t been here long enough to have people’s “common syntactic usages” (ouch) in my head. I know! I’ll take notes! Never mind (grin).

    8) Jim

  322. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment=”325543″][quote comment=”325523″][quote comment=”325513″]
    I think ALL the real Others know about it. Alpert likely has used it as we have seen him off the island several times, Ethan went with him at least once, right?[/quote]
    Ethan went with him to recruit Juliet. That episode was on the WB last night. He helped recruit the woman that delivered him.

    Tom was also off the island. Richard visited Locke in 1954 well before the hippy submarine was blown up and the Looking Glass was built. This question has bothered me for awhile, how else did they get to and fro from the island ? Hopefully a Season 5 answer just as the TT issue. JMO.[/quote]

    I think that either way you get off the island, you still have to wait for the “windows” to open.

    [/quote]

    * * * * *

    I’m not sure about the window thing, Wally. In “Man from Tallahassee,” Ben told Richard that he needed him to come back right away and Richard did. Of course, Richard may be exempt from things like waiting for windows. (I hate it when I argue with myself.)

    8) Jim

  323. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”325490″][quote comment=”325362″]
    The idea of a “constant” was only important to the episode “the Constant”, and I truly believe the only reason they had Faraday came up with that idea was to add to the drama of that episode.
    [/quote]
    I have to disagree with that. I think it will come up again. I think “Desmond Hume is my constant” was written in Daniel’s book for a reason. Where is Daniel anyways? He may be off already traveling through time. I do agree about the course-correction so far because WHH, I think.[/quote]

    Yeah, and Jim from Georgia mentioned that in comment 281 too. You may both be correct, and I guess I wouldn’t be totally surprised if that does come to play. But I think that even the “Desmond Hume is my constant” bit was mostly put in for dramatic effect, so I’m still thinking that we will not hear any more about constants.

  324. londonboy says:

    Heidi mentioned in post 48 Kate’s comment about why she came back, conveniently interrupted by the burning bus (don’t you just hate when that happens). The way it was directed, it came across as more Kate/Sawyer yawning, sorry, yearning.

    But would they do this? I know there are a lot of Kate/Sawyer fans out there (I don’t ship, I like everybody, including everyone on this blog, I’m weird like that), but surely this would put a lot of people off of Kate, what with the
    a) she just slept with Jack a few days ago
    b) she told him she always chose him (didn’t she, on the boat?)
    c) when Locke/Bentham suggested she go back for Sawyer (and presumably told her he was alive last time he looked), it didn’t do the trick

    In the past, she’s been, how to put nicely, um, flighty. But you could kind of see her motivations based on Jack’s/Sawyer’s various levels of stupidity/shirtlessness. This, knowing he’s now with Juliet too, would just seem nasty and (whether you do) I don’t think where meant to think of Kate like that.

    Unless it’s something else. Most of this season, she’s been portrayed as the devoted foster mum. She would do anything to protect and keep Aaron. Then he’s gone, Jack has to promise never to ask and now she’s back on the island, with apparently no idea of why the others are there but with a so far unspoken purpose of her own.

    Any theories as, other than those last few seconds, this seemed one of the biggest mysteries of this ep for me?

    Also, love how calm Jack is at the moment. He really did hate being the leader in the past and was happy to let Sawyer resolve the situation with Sayid.

    Who didn’t get much of a break these last two eps. Shot if he didn’t, wink wink, identify himself as a hostile in Namaste. He does. Then, when they really think he’s a hostile, despite the truth serum suggesting otherwise in this ep, they decide to shoot him. And I don’t think he knew Ben was going to release him because of a previous unseen conversation. I think he just knew he’d see Ben again because he knew what the island/fate wanted him to do. That’s why he was already waiting at the bars when Ben came. JMO.

  325. londonboy says:

    I agree that “Desmond Hume is my constant” will come back, but I never believed it would relate in eps earlier this season when people were trying to work out who everyone’s constant would be (including the island). Not because it’s a bad theory but because I couldn’t see how they could write it without it being horribly confusing (and Lost is never confusing right?). Like a giant game of had/it.

    One final thing and I’m done, probably until next week, no-one notices my enforced radio silence, sniff :-), there was a Sky1 programme that aired just before this season began in the UK that completely ruined the first part of this season for me.

    Despite constantly saying ‘we can’t tell you what happens or we’ll be sued’, they were on the set of Episode 10 (they said, although it appeared to be 9), showing Dharmaville, clearly in the late 60s or 70s, with people partying, Juliet opening a door to Jack in Dharma uniform and Sawyer extensively interviewed, also in Dharma uniform.

    No, there was no Jin and despite seeing Ben interviewed with his face all beaten up, which is pretty much every season, it meant I knew the O6 or some of them got back to the island by ep 10, and seemingly in the past. I never mentioned it earlier so as not to spoil it for others or got involved in debates about when the 06 would get back, but I’ll never watch a show about Lost again until the series has finished.

  326. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”325588″]
    One final thing and I’m done, probably until next week, no-one notices my enforced radio silence, sniff :-), there was a Sky1 programme that aired just before this season began in the UK that completely ruined the first part of this season for me.

    Despite constantly saying ‘we can’t tell you what happens or we’ll be sued’, they were on the set of Episode 10 (they said, although it appeared to be 9), showing Dharmaville, clearly in the late 60s or 70s, with people partying, Juliet opening a door to Jack in Dharma uniform and Sawyer extensively interviewed, also in Dharma uniform.

    No, there was no Jin and despite seeing Ben interviewed with his face all beaten up, which is pretty much every season, it meant I knew the O6 or some of them got back to the island by ep 10, and seemingly in the past. I never mentioned it earlier so as not to spoil it for others or got involved in debates about when the 06 would get back, but I’ll never watch a show about Lost again until the series has finished.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Thanks for sparing us the spoilers Londonboy! Appreciate it, especially since it must have been REALLY HARD!! I’m not surprised that you felt the first part of the season was ruined for you – even though we are all DYING to know what is going on, we want to learn about it in the right way!
    I don’t know how you manage the “enforced radio silence” until you can see the episode in England. Yikes! And for the record, you are missed. In fact, some of us truly obsessed like knowing that you will be in here debating when some have tapered off or are just waiting for the new episode. Keeps the fun going!

  327. londonboy says:

    Thanks Rita, you’re very kind and as a typical Englishman, I’m both blushing and humbled. The hardest part of loving both Lost and this blog is that the latter is off-limits for me for half of the week. The half when everyone’s getting worked up across the Atlantic after watching an episode and, lately, with each other. Mostly, I just sit in front of the TV crying and when my wife asks why, I don’t know :-)

    I don’t mind admitting that I missed the likes of Hammer and PJ and Circus Mom while they were away. I don’t always agree with their theories but I thought that was the point of this place. Plus, again as an Englishman, I can’t help missing PJ’s politeness and evenhandedness (and that’s a very ugly sentence for a journalist by profession). I’m also glad Frank stuck around as he makes a lot of good points too on these eps. I’m all for the love (but don’t tell the wife).

  328. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325587″]Most of this season, she’s been portrayed as the devoted foster mum. She would do anything to protect and keep Aaron. Then he’s gone, Jack has to promise never to ask and now she’s back on the island, with apparently no idea of why the others are there but with a so far unspoken purpose of her own.[/quote]

    I am also confused by Kate this season, londonboy. Her recent behavior notwithstanding, I hope that she returned because she felt compelled to help him as he helped her (by exiting, via splashdown, from the helicopter). And I hope there is more to it – with Aaron, etc. I have a feeling we are going to get some missing pieces in her pre-Ajira storyline this week.

    [quote comment=”325588″]One final thing and I’m done, probably until next week, no-one notices my enforced radio silence, sniff :-), there was a Sky1 programme that aired just before this season began in the UK that completely ruined the first part of this season for me.[/quote]

    Sorry to hear that and THANK YOU for not spoiling us. I understand SO much about things being ruined. I accidentally saw a photo of Kate in a lei in DHARMAville and it messed me up, too. At least you didn’t see Jin so there was SOME element of surprise.

    : ) P

  329. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325594″]Mostly, I just sit in front of the TV crying and when my wife asks why, I don’t know :-)[/quote]

    Perhaps we should call you Daniel?

    : ) P

  330. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325594″]I don’t mind admitting that I missed the likes of Hammer and PJ and Circus Mom while they were away. I don’t always agree with their theories but I thought that was the point of this place. [/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Thank you kind sir…and I would hope that not everyone agree with all of my theories. It would be boring and debating is what helps me to realize that some of my theories just aren’t possible. I am one of the folks that
    Rita spoke of…that enjoy you popping up later in the week to stoke the fire.

  331. adapa1 says:

    I really glad that several regulars have decided to return. I’ve always enjoyed your theories and thought of you with the highest esteem.

    I think this idea of using a secondary TT machine, and drugging them onto the looking glass kicks has a lot of merit. Although I’ve also aways thought of it be to private issue between Ethan and Ben.

    Hey I keep thinking of that Jacob theory I posted last week and want to know if there is a similar one around for me to read.

    I wrote: “What if Jacob sent his conciousness to the future and it ends up in john locke”
    Sounds crazy even for lost right? Well think about the whole dhali lami reincarnation test between richard….becuase thats exaclty what it was(the writers admit to this correlation) and that’s why John can’t die and neither can jacob, and why John’s so special. ?????please don’t shoot me for that one guys!!

  332. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325611″]
    I wrote:

    “What if Jacob sent his conciousness to the future and it ends up in john locke”
    Sounds crazy even for lost right? Well think about the whole dhali lami reincarnation test between richard….becuase thats exaclty what it was(the writers admit to this correlation) and that’s why John can’t die and neither can jacob, and why John’s so special. ?????please don’t shoot me for that one guys!![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Not gonna shoot ya…it’s certainly possible on LOST. I can see it, there have been several times when Locke seemed to know exactly what to do…then get confused and wonder if he’s doing the right thing. Maybe Jacob was ‘in’ him at times?

  333. Duke says:

    The whole truth serum and Oldham bothered me a bit. NOt while watching it but after reading some comments and re-thinking about the scene. He’s our You was meant to mean that Oldham was the Dharma’s Sayid (ie torturer). They just so easily scoffed at Sayid ramblings after the serum had taken effect rather than ask questions to clarify what he was saying. Oldham should have known what amount of the serum to use to get the desired benefit but because they were inclined to think that Sayid was rambling nonsense (kind of like I am doing now) they just dismissed what he had said. Just another one of those odd things that seem to happen every now and again. Any thoughts?

  334. Duke says:

    I will comment on the so called radio silence. I think that Frank was wrong to be so harsh to those who were offended last week. I have been accussed of what some would view as harsh comments towards different people on here as well although my comments were meant to be sarcastic in a mean spirited way. But those who were offened decided to hideaway this week to prove what exactly? Don’t run from the people who talk badly about you. You are just giving them what they want if you run and hide or respond to them.

  335. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325617″]The whole truth serum and Oldham bothered me a bit. NOt while watching it but after reading some comments and re-thinking about the scene. He’s our You was meant to mean that Oldham was the Dharma’s Sayid (ie torturer). They just so easily scoffed at Sayid ramblings after the serum had taken effect rather than ask questions to clarify what he was saying. Oldham should have known what amount of the serum to use to get the desired benefit but because they were inclined to think that Sayid was rambling nonsense (kind of like I am doing now) they just dismissed what he had said. Just another one of those odd things that seem to happen every now and again. Any thoughts?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    Yeah, to be honest I was a little bummed out that he wasn’t ‘our you’. He didn’t torture at all, he just used a drug to get him to talk. So Sawyer’s comment was very loose and should have been…”he’s our guy that gets the truth out of people…sort of like you”.

  336. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”325617″]The whole truth serum and Oldham bothered me a bit. NOt while watching it but after reading some comments and re-thinking about the scene. He’s our You was meant to mean that Oldham was the Dharma’s Sayid (ie torturer). They just so easily scoffed at Sayid ramblings after the serum had taken effect rather than ask questions to clarify what he was saying. Oldham should have known what amount of the serum to use to get the desired benefit but because they were inclined to think that Sayid was rambling nonsense (kind of like I am doing now) they just dismissed what he had said. Just another one of those odd things that seem to happen every now and again. Any thoughts?[/quote]
    _________________________________
    I hear ya Duke, and wondered the same thing. I believe I saw Horace pay particularly close attention though, so even if he didn’t buy it, he was thinking SOMETHING that we haven’t seen yet. Also, Dharma’s version of “Sayid” seemed so much more “civilized” – used drugs, etc., rather than pliers – makes torture seem so much more acceptable somehow, justifiable to the Dharmites, and lulled Sawyer into going along with it.

  337. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325617″]The whole truth serum and Oldham bothered me a bit. NOt while watching it but after reading some comments and re-thinking about the scene. He’s our You was meant to mean that Oldham was the Dharma’s Sayid (ie torturer). [/quote]

    I agree. Oldham was a bit of a “cop out” but I will admit that I DID get concerned about Sayid’s welfare when I saw Horace with the clipper/pliers in the jail cell. At that point, I thought that HORACE was their “you.” Of course, that was the “make love not war” 70’s, so perhaps just holding clipper/pliers menacingly, and using a bit of truth serum WAS *torture* to them!

    [quote comment=”325617″]Sayid was rambling nonsense (kind of like I am doing now) [/quote]

    LOL. You made sense to me!

    : ) P

  338. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325618″]I will comment on the so called radio silence. I think that Frank was wrong to be so harsh to those who were offended last week. I have been accussed of what some would view as harsh comments towards different people on here as well although my comments were meant to be sarcastic in a mean spirited way.

    But those who were offened decided to hideaway this week to prove what exactly? Don’t run from the people who talk badly about you. You are just giving them what they want if you run and hide or respond to them.[/quote]

    Thanks, Duke. FWIW, we were not hiding or running away because of Frank, hank, leah or anyone else. There was a reason for our disappearance, but the reason is now moot, so we returned. No harm, no foul.

    : ) P

  339. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325597″][quote comment=”325587″]Most of this season, she’s been portrayed as the devoted foster mum. She would do anything to protect and keep Aaron. Then he’s gone, Jack has to promise never to ask and now she’s back on the island, with apparently no idea of why the others are there but with a so far unspoken purpose of her own.[/quote]

    I am also confused by Kate this season, londonboy. Her recent behavior notwithstanding, I hope that she returned because she felt compelled to help him as he helped her (by exiting, via splashdown, from the helicopter). And I hope there is more to it – with Aaron, etc. I have a feeling we are going to get some missing pieces in her pre-Ajira storyline this week.

    [quote comment=”325588″]One final thing and I’m done, probably until next week, no-one notices my enforced radio silence, sniff :-), there was a Sky1 programme that aired just before this season began in the UK that completely ruined the first part of this season for me.[/quote]

    Sorry to hear that and THANK YOU for not spoiling us. I understand SO much about things being ruined. I accidentally saw a photo of Kate in a lei in DHARMAville and it messed me up, too. At least you didn’t see Jin so there was SOME element of surprise.

    : ) P[/qu
    *********************************
    New to posting, but sure have enjoyed reading everyone’s post the last couple of seasons. I may stumble the first couple of posts but will try to get it right. I think Kate has been strange as well and thought that it may have been her who had the run in with Ben before they got on the plane. I think he got Aaron and in order for him to stay safe she had no other choice but to return to the island. I am convinced that Ben is evil and all of this lying and deceiving he has been doing is not for the good of the island but for the good of him. I think he has convinced kate that if she does not do what he has told her to do (even sleeping with Jack) then Aaron is dead. Many more thoughts about the show but need to find the right thread to comment!

    Hope this was done right…
    -miss

  340. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325631″]I think Kate has been strange as well and thought that it may have been her who had the run in with Ben before they got on the plane. I think he got Aaron and in order for him to stay safe she had no other choice but to return to the island. I am convinced that Ben is evil and all of this lying and deceiving he has been doing is not for the good of the island but for the good of him. I think he has convinced kate that if she does not do what he has told her to do (even sleeping with Jack) then Aaron is dead. Many more thoughts about the show but need to find the right thread to comment!

    Hope this was done right…
    -miss[/quote]

    Welcome Miss lost! I like your thought process here. I am not sure I can buy the fact that Kate made Ben look like that, but I can see Ben kidnapping Aaron and making Kate return to the island as a kind of ransom. Who knows, maybe that is he or Widmore got Sun to do what she is doing (what *is* she doing?). Maybe that was Kate’s reason for returning, which we didn’t see because of Ben’s burning bus trick as mentioned earlier.

    Hmmm.

    : ) P

  341. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325641″][quote comment=”325631″]I think Kate has been strange as well and thought that it may have been her who had the run in with Ben before they got on the plane. I think he got Aaron and in order for him to stay safe she had no other choice but to return to the island. I am convinced that Ben is evil and all of this lying and deceiving he has been doing is not for the good of the island but for the good of him. I think he has convinced kate that if she does not do what he has told her to do (even sleeping with Jack) then Aaron is dead. Many more thoughts about the show but need to find the right thread to comment!

    Hope this was done right…
    -miss[/quote]

    Welcome Miss lost! I like your thought process here. I am not sure I can buy the fact that Kate made Ben look like that, but I can see Ben kidnapping Aaron and making Kate return to the island as a kind of ransom. Who knows, maybe that is he or Widmore got Sun to do what she is doing (what *is* she doing?). Maybe that was Kate’s reason for returning, which we didn’t see because of Ben’s burning bus trick as mentioned earlier.

    Hmmm.

    : ) P[/quote]
    *************************

    Ok…probably right that it was not Kate who did that to him…what I keep thinking is he orchestrated a kidnapping. He is pulling all the strings…he had someone come in and take Aaron. he shows up and “tries” to help save Aaron, but it is no good, the bad guys get him(really the bad guys work for Ben) and Kate is told she has to do exactly what they say or no Aaron…she is not herself and I think she would do anything for Aaron. Again, I can’t stop thinking that this is all going to center around Ben being the extreme evil person and everything on Lost has been orchestrated by him. I think he has made it clear he always has a plan and his plan is to ALWAYS be in control of the island.
    -m

  342. Martin says:

    The clique of long-time posters removed themselves initially to punish Frank, hankvega, and iowakid who posted some very rude comments. Unfortunately, they posted quite a few snide comments themselves at another Lost blog, mocking the bloggers here for using poor grammar and spelling, forming weak ideas, and generally devolving without their input.

    Specifically, they ridiculed GMTA Leah, saying she “wasn’t the sharpest tool in the box” and that she was “probably scratching her head and saying ‘huh'”? in response to certain ideas. GMTA Leah read those posts and reacted with vigor and anger, as anyone so personally attacked would. They then turned on GMTA Leah because she called them on their hypocrisy. For this small group of friends to mock and deride Leah, then feign surprise and confusion about the anger and hurt in her reaction is manipulative, bullying, and mean-spirited.

    Several in this group of cyber friends posted at the other Lost blog that they couldn’t resist reading the comments here, even while they were ‘punishing’ this group. Some admitted that they were posting comments here under different names because they needed to set us straight.

    After they decided that our timeout was finished, they begin posting about their innocence, reasonableness, and love of idea-sharing. How utterly disingenuous.

    They sometimes share great ideas but recently displayed a group-wide cruel streak to GMTA Leah. What do you think The Island could teach them?

    Perhaps they should stay at their “Little Island” blog and let us enjoy the mental gymnastics of Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, ToeKnee, etc. More Lost, less divas.

  343. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325658″]The clique of long-time posters removed themselves initially to punish Frank, hankvega, and iowakid who posted some very rude comments. Unfortunately, they posted quite a few snide comments themselves at another Lost blog, mocking the bloggers here for using poor grammar and spelling, forming weak ideas, and generally devolving without their input.
    [/quote]
    Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about by your statement in the first sentence. There was no boycott to punish anyone. If you are going to claim certain things please get your facts straight and stop spreading propaganda.

    Good first post Mr. Leah. Did you happen to read the hateful posts she wrote on that blog? A lady should not utter such things.

    BTW, when reading blogs it is much easier to understand ideas when grammar and spelling are relatively accurate.

  344. PJSander says:

    Oh dear, it seems the lies and misinformation are getting more elaborate. I will respond to Martin’s post honestly and completely and then I will wash my hands of this mess.

    [quote comment=”325658″]The clique of long-time posters removed themselves initially to punish Frank, hankvega, and iowakid who posted some very rude comments. [/quote]

    Not true in ANY capacity. We “disappeared” last Wednesday night at 9pm Eastern as part of a fairly elaborate April Fools prank we have been planning for nearly a month. We don’t care enough about the rude people to go to such lengths as to remove ourselves from the forum. Wouldn’t that simply give those people what they want?

    [quote comment=”325658″]Unfortunately, they posted quite a few snide comments themselves at another Lost blog, mocking the bloggers here for using poor grammar and spelling, forming weak ideas, and generally devolving without their input.[/quote]

    Completely and wholly untrue. We do post at another LOST blog, yes. Have we ever mentioned people from this blog on that one? Yes. Have we ever mocked people for grammar, spelling, weak ideas? No.

    [quote comment=”325658″]Specifically, they ridiculed GMTA Leah, saying she “wasn’t the sharpest tool in the box” and that she was “probably scratching her head and saying ‘huh'”? in response to certain ideas.[/quote]

    Actually there WAS a post on that blog from someone saying something like that about Leah. It was an anonymous post which was DELETED when I saw it – because unkindness is not tolerated on that blog. Which is the SAME REASON that I deleted HORRIFIC posts written BY Leah when she was on that blog last summer. She cruelly and horrifically flamed another user for reasons that had NOTHING to do with LOST. I deleted her posts and asked her to refrain from posting like that again. When she did not, I deleted the next post and the next and finally asked her not to post on that blog again.

    [quote comment=”325658″]GMTA Leah read those posts and reacted with vigor and anger, as anyone so personally attacked would.[/quote]

    I have to assume that this part is true. Leah said something on this week’s thread about not being the sharpest in the box or something and it seemed as if she was upset. I couldn’t find any post on this blog that she was referencing and it was one of the other people that frequent both blogs who found the offending quote on the other blog, which is when I deleted it. I had not seen it previously.

    [quote comment=”325658″]They then turned on GMTA Leah because she called them on their hypocrisy. For this small group of friends to mock and deride Leah, then feign surprise and confusion about the anger and hurt in her reaction is manipulative, bullying, and mean-spirited.

    Several in this group of cyber friends posted at the other Lost blog that they couldn’t resist reading the comments here, even while they were ‘punishing’ this group.[/quote]

    NONE of this is true. NONE.

    [quote comment=”325658″]Some admitted that they were posting comments here under different names because they needed to set us straight.
    [/quote]

    I did post as ‘justme’ this week. I felt compelled to defend Heidi who accidentally posted a spoiler and was being roughed up by a couple of other members. Since I didn’t want to mess up our April Fools joke, I created that alias for that ONE POST. I cannot speak for anyone else who is on both blogs, but as far as I know, they have not posted under different names.

    [quote comment=”325658″]After they decided that our timeout was finished, they begin posting about their innocence, reasonableness, and love of idea-sharing. How utterly disingenuous.[/quote]

    Again, there WAS no timeout. Because there were several people who seemed upset, we ditched our April Fools joke and returned to posting as normal. Besides, I certainly don’t think that our disappearing from this blog for a week would be punishment for anyone! LOL

    As to whether or not we are reasonable, or disingenuous, that is a matter of opinion, not fact. I believe we are reasonable people, as are most who belong to this LOST community. I think I speak for all in the targeted group, when I say we do love to share ideas.

    [quote comment=”325658″]They sometimes share great ideas but recently displayed a group-wide cruel streak to GMTA Leah.[/quote]

    We did NOT display any kind of cruel behavior toward Leah. Furthermore, had SHE not brought it up REPEATEDLY during this thread, and had Martin not made this final post, NO ONE would know about the ONE anonymous post on another blog and her dignity might have remained fully in tact. It is ONLY because of these posts that any of the dirty laundry is being aired.

    [quote comment=”325658″]What do you think The Island could teach them?

    Perhaps they should stay at their “Little Island” blog and let us enjoy the mental gymnastics of Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, ToeKnee, etc. More Lost, less divas.[/quote]

    I agree that Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, Toeknee, duke, londonboy, LostGrrl, Vaughn, wallyp, shellonius funk, mccotter, and Frank, among others, all have great ideas. I don’t think any of the people who frequent both blogs are divas, but again that is a matter of opinion. I like to think that when we share ideas, questions, and theories, and back both up with facts from the show, it makes us careful and thoughtful, not divas.

    I also have to question how many aliases you’ve posted under, Martin? I don’t recognize your ID prior to today. Ridiculous was new yesterday. Hooked was new this week. Iowakid, as far as I know, was new in the last thread. That pretty much covers all of our detractors.

    FWIW, no amount of nastiness directed at me, especially over something which has built out of a pack of lies, is ever going to chase me away from this blog. I enjoy the intelligent discourse that goes on here and don’t intend to leave for real, any time soon. I don’t think it is fair to everyone else (all the people who don’t care one whit about what Leah thinks happened to her on another blog) to put them through this any longer. Martin, you seem to be well aware of the other blog, so if you have any further issues, why don’t you take it up *on* that blog?

    Finally, I will direct any who are still reading this diatribe of defense, to the Whisperer thread on this blog, where if you choose to read, you will find the last few days worth of our efforts at preparing what we thought would be a funny April Fools Day joke. I think it starts around comment 80.

    Consider this my last word on the subject.

    P
    (leaving out the happy face, because eh, not so happy just now)

  345. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325570″] But I think that even the “Desmond Hume is my constant” bit was mostly put in for dramatic effect, so I’m still thinking that we will not hear any more about constants.[/quote]
    You maybe right but I think they showed us that at the very end of that particular episode for a reason.

  346. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325658″]
    After they decided that our timeout was finished, they begin posting about their innocence, reasonableness, and love of idea-sharing. How utterly disingenuous.

    They sometimes share great ideas but recently displayed a group-wide cruel streak to GMTA Leah. What do you think The Island could teach them?

    Perhaps they should stay at their “Little Island” blog and let us enjoy the mental gymnastics of Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, ToeKnee, etc. More Lost, less divas.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Great post Martin. The funny thing is that when I wrote that mean post about the school girls, I knew exactly what they were going to do. And they did it! I guess playing Benjamin Linus is not that hard after all.

  347. Tired of Drama, not Dharma says:

    [quote comment=”325658″]The clique of long-time posters removed themselves initially to punish Frank, hankvega, and iowakid who posted some very rude comments. Unfortunately, they posted quite a few snide comments themselves at another Lost blog, mocking the bloggers here for using poor grammar and spelling, forming weak ideas, and generally devolving without their input.

    Specifically, they ridiculed GMTA Leah, saying she “wasn’t the sharpest tool in the box” and that she was “probably scratching her head and saying ‘huh'”? in response to certain ideas. GMTA Leah read those posts and reacted with vigor and anger, as anyone so personally attacked would. They then turned on GMTA Leah because she called them on their hypocrisy. For this small group of friends to mock and deride Leah, then feign surprise and confusion about the anger and hurt in her reaction is manipulative, bullying, and mean-spirited.

    Several in this group of cyber friends posted at the other Lost blog that they couldn’t resist reading the comments here, even while they were ‘punishing’ this group. Some admitted that they were posting comments here under different names because they needed to set us straight.

    After they decided that our timeout was finished, they begin posting about their innocence, reasonableness, and love of idea-sharing. How utterly disingenuous.

    They sometimes share great ideas but recently displayed a group-wide cruel streak to GMTA Leah. What do you think The Island could teach them?

    Perhaps they should stay at their “Little Island” blog and let us enjoy the mental gymnastics of Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, ToeKnee, etc. More Lost, less divas.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++First off, the reason for leaving wasnn’t to punish anyone.

    Althouth the tow comments about leah may have been made they were only by one or possibly two ot the group and no one commented to agree with them.

    Since you copied the same misquote that leah did I am guesing that you are leah.

    If you look at quote 507 on the Namaste thread leah herself says she likes to cause trouble.

  348. Tito XVII says:

    seems like posters that talk about lost theories 24/7/365 would be welcom on a crusty litlle blog that only comes out of the woodworks for 4 months out of the year.

    alos seems that those whom fail to follow the guidelines [and no f-bomb/spioler rulez] should expect to take some serious heat from those that do follow the rules.

  349. hank vega says:

    I am still wondering why the rules don’t apply to Desmond, and why the keep telling John he’s a leader when he is clearly not. He hasn’t been for 5 and half seasons and I don’t see how he will become one before the end.

    I think their uniqueness is in direct relation with the loop. John being a part of Jacob and Desmond being Widmore’s father.

  350. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325543″]
    It is interesting though how the Others and Dharma both use the same method of the submarine. Others seem to copycat alot though…(its the same subamarine) If there is this whole process of being “zapped”, or teleported, do you think that the Dharma folks know this stuff? Does Horace know he was “Zapped?” -either he does, or someone else above him is in control of the sub operation.—-Widmore, who is running Dharma from the island as an Other maybe? Thats my guess.[/quote]
    I do like DocH’s suggestion about teleporting to the Looking Glass just not sure if I buy it. All the people we have seen teleported have undergone serious time displacement. Ben ( 10 months ), Locke ( over 2 years? ), and most recently our LOSTie 316ers ( 30 years ). I think Dharma had their own way and we know Richard couldn’t have used the sub in 1956, so I think he had another way. I imagine Ben would know the way Richard used in 1956. Of course, I am of the opinion Richard is not a TT.

  351. Tired of Drama, not Dharma says:

    [quote comment=”325675″][quote comment=”325658″]
    After they decided that our timeout was finished, they begin posting about their innocence, reasonableness, and love of idea-sharing. How utterly disingenuous.

    They sometimes share great ideas but recently displayed a group-wide cruel streak to GMTA Leah. What do you think The Island could teach them?

    Perhaps they should stay at their “Little Island” blog and let us enjoy the mental gymnastics of Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, ToeKnee, etc. More Lost, less divas.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Great post Martin. The funny thing is that when I wrote that mean post about the school girls, I knew exactly what they were going to do. And they did it! I guess playing Benjamin Linus is not that hard after all.[/quote]
    ++++
    I take this as comfirmation that you are also Frank.

  352. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325684″][quote comment=”325675″][quote comment=”325658″]
    After they decided that our timeout was finished, they begin posting about their innocence, reasonableness, and love of idea-sharing. How utterly disingenuous.

    They sometimes share great ideas but recently displayed a group-wide cruel streak to GMTA Leah. What do you think The Island could teach them?

    Perhaps they should stay at their “Little Island” blog and let us enjoy the mental gymnastics of Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, ToeKnee, etc. More Lost, less divas.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Great post Martin. The funny thing is that when I wrote that mean post about the school girls, I knew exactly what they were going to do. And they did it! I guess playing Benjamin Linus is not that hard after all.[/quote]
    ++++
    I take this as comfirmation that you are also Frank.[/quote]

    Nop. wrong again. I am hank vega. No need to post with a different name, that would be childish. I am also not a native english speaker so you could easily spot the difference in our writing style.

  353. RonnyB says:

    hey, There are some advantages to OCD, one is that I played and watched the beginning of the Season 5 episode where they meet at the marina & Sun get’s a call from her mom. I especailly love the part Where Ben says, “Sayid, Where are you going” & he replies ” I don’t want any part of this and if I see either of you again it will be very unpleasant for all of us!!!”
    However in episode 10, when they replay the part at the Marina, ” Sayid says, (talking to Ben only this time not Ben & Jack ” If I see you again it will be very unpleasent for both of us. Someone else must have picked that up too. Let me know!
    & Also in Episode 10:

  354. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”325703″]hey, There are some advantages to OCD, one is that I played and watched the beginning of the Season 5 episode where they meet at the marina & Sun get’s a call from her mom. I especailly love the part Where Ben says, “Sayid, Where are you going” & he replies ” I don’t want any part of this and if I see either of you again it will be very unpleasant for all of us!!!”
    However in episode 10, when they replay the part at the Marina, ” Sayid says, (talking to Ben only this time not Ben & Jack ” If I see you again it will be very unpleasent for both of us. Someone else must have picked that up too. Let me know!
    & Also in Episode 10:[/quote]
    Locke is Jacob (LiJ) brought that up in comment 272, and Jim in Georgia responded in comment 275. I think it was simply a matter of editing, as LiJ hinted at in 272.
    ( I hope people don’t mind if I abbreviate their name. It’s great to see lots of new people here (at least, I think they’re new), but the long names get cumbersome :) )

    They wanted to show us that scene again, being that it foreshadows the rest of the episode. I’ll have to rewatch both versions to be sure, but my guess is that for the sake of saving time, they edited the video and audio to excise Jack because he was not essential to the storyline of this episode.

    I may be mistaken but I think that has happened other times this season, when certain scenes are replayed in a different episode than they originally aired. Some scenes that come to mind are the scene with Ben and Ms. Hawking at the church, the scene with Sawyer pulling the rope that Locke climbed down before turning FDW, the scene with Christian and Locke at the FDW. I’d have to rewatch those, be I believe there were some minor edits made for the re-airing of those scenes, simply to streamline the storytelling.

  355. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325703″]
    Locke is Jacob (LiJ) brought that up in comment 272, and Jim in Georgia responded in comment 275. I think it was simply a matter of editing, as LiJ hinted at in 272.
    ( I hope people don’t mind if I abbreviate their name. It’s great to see lots of new people here (at least, I think they’re new), but the long names get cumbersome :) )

    They wanted to show us that scene again, being that it foreshadows the rest of the episode. I’ll have to rewatch both versions to be sure, but my guess is that for the sake of saving time, they edited the video and audio to excise Jack because he was not essential to the storyline of this episode.

    I may be mistaken but I think that has happened other times this season, when certain scenes are replayed in a different episode than they originally aired. Some scenes that come to mind are the scene with Ben and Ms. Hawking at the church, the scene with Sawyer pulling the rope that Locke climbed down before turning FDW, the scene with Christian and Locke at the FDW. I’d have to rewatch those, be I believe there were some minor edits made for the re-airing of those scenes, simply to streamline the storytelling.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Mmm. I was wondering if something was gonna happen to Jack because of Sayid comment in the season opener, but now the comment is not there anymore. My first guess is that we are looking too hard, my second guess is that Jack is gonna kill Sayid.

  356. londonboy says:

    [quote comment=”325599″][quote comment=”325594″]Mostly, I just sit in front of the TV crying and when my wife asks why, I don’t know :-)[/quote]

    Perhaps we should call you Daniel?

    : ) P[/quote]

    Yes, provided Daniel mixes up the hallowed arches of Queen’s College for the Golden ones or drools and ambles to the fridge when people mention Pi.

    And what the hell happened? I leave for some much needed sleep and everyone goes Radzinsky again. Can we have a truce now? If I was a newbie, I wouldn’t come back with all this bickering.

    And thanks for the heads up on Kate for this week. As LostJunkie mentioned in post 80, Sayid not being involved in the Des/Penny/Ben story does look bad for Penny, but if Ben went to see Kate that would be a neat twist. My money’s on Des and something more tragic, though.

  357. LizS says:

    re: Duke, #333–disappointed in Oldham–I kind of thought of it as a joke. We’re set up to think Oldham is some gruesome torturer, and Sayid is going to get back what he’s given out, but then “I can’t give you anything but love, baby” and some crazy tripping truth serum. C’mon, that was funny!

    True,on why didn’t they take Sayid’s ramblings more seriously, but he was saying some fantastic things, really, and ‘you’re all going to die, you know’–who wants to hear that? Plus, it could be thought of as a ‘Hostile’ threat. Plus, whatever Dharma is about, the time traveling aspect of things was not part of the Swan’s reason to be, I think, so that’s probably not in the Dharma folks thought processes yet.

    re: Lost4ever’s 345/350–re: showing us the notebook–I agree, I think there has to be a reason for showing us that.

    Maybe Daniel is one who will be stuck in an endless time loop, which is why he is crying when he sees the plane underwater. I had the thought, here or on another loop, that Dan’s notebook might prove to be like Locke/Richard’s compass–he finds the notebook or is given it, and reads all these interesting theories on time travel, which leads him to be interested in studying it, which leads him to scribble notes/read/write in the notebook, and take it to the island, where he gets stuck in the past and leaves it for himself to find in the future which makes him want to study time travel…

    ouch!

    re: other ways to TT–I dunno, I like the theories that there may be other ways to TT than the wheel, and maybe the ‘incident’ will prove to be one of them, but outside of the never aging Richard (who may or may not be a t-traveler, or just really long-lived and youthful), who do we know so far that has TT, besides the people we saw it happen to?

    I agree that there are other ways off and on to the island, which we haven’t seen yet, besides the correct headings of Ben and Dan (which have probably changed through the island moving)

    But I think the submarine use of the Others was just convenience. Like the Romans, they took what was useful about a people–the sub, the barracks–and adopted it.

    Cheers, Liz

  358. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325769″]As LostJunkie mentioned in post 80, Sayid not being involved in the Des/Penny/Ben story does look bad for Penny, but if Ben went to see Kate that would be a neat twist. My money’s on Des and something more tragic, though.[/quote]

    I hope we haven’t seen the end of Desmond/Penny. At this point, I think if Ben HAD killed Penny, we would have seen it in the storyline by now, it is just too big to leave hanging. What I don’t understand is why Widmore wasn’t more specific about the danger that Penny was in. I mean if Ben threatened to kill my kid, I think I might tell Desmond some of the details, you know, to help keep her safe.

    Sadly, I agree that there will be tragedy in Desmond’s future. He got his happy ending and the story isn’t over yet!

    : ) P

  359. Locke is Jacob says:

    [quote comment=”325758″][quote comment=”325703″]
    Locke is Jacob (LiJ) brought that up in comment 272, and Jim in Georgia responded in comment 275. I think it was simply a matter of editing, as LiJ hinted at in 272.
    ( I hope people don’t mind if I abbreviate their name. It’s great to see lots of new people here (at least, I think they’re new), but the long names get cumbersome :) )

    They wanted to show us that scene again, being that it foreshadows the rest of the episode. I’ll have to rewatch both versions to be sure, but my guess is that for the sake of saving time, they edited the video and audio to excise Jack because he was not essential to the storyline of this episode.

    I may be mistaken but I think that has happened other times this season, when certain scenes are replayed in a different episode than they originally aired. Some scenes that come to mind are the scene with Ben and Ms. Hawking at the church, the scene with Sawyer pulling the rope that Locke climbed down before turning FDW, the scene with Christian and Locke at the FDW. I’d have to rewatch those, be I believe there were some minor edits made for the re-airing of those scenes, simply to streamline the storytelling.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Mmm. I was wondering if something was gonna happen to Jack because of Sayid comment in the season opener, but now the comment is not there anymore. My first guess is that we are looking too hard, my second guess is that Jack is gonna kill Sayid.[/quote]

    ===============================================
    I agree that it could be editing and again, when I watched the scene it just stuck out to me. I know this season there are a number of examples of them re-showing a particular scene, but I can’t help but feel this was different. Take the scene when Christian is talking to John in the well, they don’t show the entire scene… but what they do show is exactly in-line with what we first saw. I also agree that it could be a difference in perspective. One view point from Jack and one viewpoint from Sayid…

    With that being said, I have always been a fan of the multiple time-line theory. When DF explained the TT (to Sawyer and Co.) like a piece of sting, I have always picture the story of LOST like multiple pieces of string that intersect in the middle at one single point (the incident). I can’t get it out of my head that each string is a timeline and what happens before and after the incident is different on each piece of string.

    In saying this I’m conflicted because I also agree with everyone that thinks regardless of what happens, the end result will be the same. Finally after saying that, I’m wondering why everyone connected to this island is going to some much trouble and effort to make a difference when course correction will make their effort worthless. Just thinking out loud, I know a lot of answer are still to come and yes… I do believe Locke is Jacob an individual with “special powers”… he just doesn’t know it you. I also believe Jacob could predict when it’s going to rain on the island as well. As a side note I also think Walt could tell us when it’s going to rain. Locke / Jacobs successor???

    P.S. Give all the drama a rest, most of us just want to read about LOST, not about the who and what of this blog.

  360. Mal says:

    A lot of people have been discussing the odd and anti-clamactic behaviors of characters… Kate returning for what we pray is not to see Sawyer once more…, Oldham, the all-powerful interrogator second-guessing his truth serum dosage?

    What I want to know is, what is Sawyer up to? I understand that he is in working on a plan to get everyone out of Dharmaville… but why does he seem to be stalling? He seems to be holding onto his life in Dharmaville, but he knows it won’t last. At the same time, his desire to have a wife and a dog and family seems to be a pretty weak plot ploy and doesn’t seem to fit with his character. I’m really hoping that he has something great up his sleeve.

  361. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325675″][quote comment=”325658″]
    After they decided that our timeout was finished, they begin posting about their innocence, reasonableness, and love of idea-sharing. How utterly disingenuous.

    They sometimes share great ideas but recently displayed a group-wide cruel streak to GMTA Leah. What do you think The Island could teach them?

    Perhaps they should stay at their “Little Island” blog and let us enjoy the mental gymnastics of Flyboy, Jaime, RGS, ToeKnee, etc. More Lost, less divas.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Great post Martin. The funny thing is that when I wrote that mean post about the school girls, I knew exactly what they were going to do. And they did it! I guess playing Benjamin Linus is not that hard after all.[/quote]
    *****************************

    This is my third post and I just want to say that I generally read all of your thoughts and opinions (as that is what most of this is…) and sometimes things get heated but usually in a good debate manner. I have NEVER thought the regulars were cruel…they are just willing to write what they are thinking and then brave enough to push submit to see what others think. I think for the most part they have been welcoming to newcomers and have tried to help if the newcomer is not posting correctly. I have not posted the past couple of years because somewhere along the line someone says exactly (or close) to what I am thinking….I read to see that I am not LOST or losing my mind…ha ha…anyway, I love this site regardless if I post or not and to those who keep grumbling about the so called elite, if you don’t like them and can only continue to say harsh things, WHY are you still on this blog…maybe it is you who should find a different island. thanks for letting me vent about the silliness!
    -miss

  362. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”325186″]I have watched lost from jacks eye ,and been on this blog for a couple of years .This is my last post . The behavior of some in the past week has disgusted me .They know who they are .I would say to you all,dont be taken in by your suposed hero,s on this blog because many of you are thought of as thich ,stupid ,time wasters by them .Dont be dictated to as to what is correct or what you think of the show ,if you have a theory stick to it .dont let others shout you down .They dont know more , they are not watching a different show ,its the same episode as you.The reason certain individuals appear to be in the know is because they store the info ,not in their mind, but in their computers ,on pieces of paper .they take notes .Ask yourself when did any of the ‘elite’ agree or pat the back of any blogger not in the circle of friends?I hope for the future of this blog, those that are missing stay on the little island where they belong.I know that this post may cause a problem for many .I dont like liars and i dont like hypercrites.Trust and respect has been given to those that really dont deserve it.I will not be reading or contributing in my name or [any other]again.ps. I would like to apolgise to frank for last week. It seems he was correct.[/quote]

    _______

    Just so you know….I don’t store things in my computer, it’s in my memory. Sorry. That may be why I am not always right. There is also a little thing called lostpedia. Sorry to say but some of you DO act like you are watching a different show. I know you may not have watched every episode 500 times like I have. I don’t hold it against you. I only correct you, and I ONLY do that when I know I am RIGHT! Thing is, I only correct it if I know for a fact and try to help the ones that are condused. I haven’t read anything past this point, but I felt that the whole memory thing is way out of line for you to say! I am NOT in any clique on this blog. I have been coming here since season 1 and missed last week. But for people to shoot down the ones that watch this show religously, it’s immature. They should be glad there are people that follow this show so well. As far as theories. My theory on it has been shot down by Hammer and other ones on this blog and I have never whined about it. They have their theories and I have mine. It doesn’t matter because they may be absolutely right. That’s why it’s called a theory. I am sorry that this blog seems to have fallen part in the past couple of weeks, but this is supposed to be a place to discuss a show that we all love. Not to bash everyone like we are in high school. They are better off not having to deal with this. Sorry if I offend anyone but it’s how I feel right now. Hopefully as I read on someone will clear this up.

  363. manchesterChap says:

    [quote comment=”325775″][quote comment=”325769″]As LostJunkie mentioned in post 80, Sayid not being involved in the Des/Penny/Ben story does look bad for Penny, but if Ben went to see Kate that would be a neat twist. My money’s on Des and something more tragic, though.[/quote]

    I hope we haven’t seen the end of Desmond/Penny. At this point, I think if Ben HAD killed Penny, we would have seen it in the storyline by now, it is just too big to leave hanging. What I don’t understand is why Widmore wasn’t more specific about the danger that Penny was in. I mean if Ben threatened to kill my kid, I think I might tell Desmond some of the details, you know, to help keep her safe.

    Sadly, I agree that there will be tragedy in Desmond’s future. He got his happy ending and the story isn’t over yet!

    : ) P[/quote]

    ______________________________

    just wait until the season finally. we have not seen the last of desmond and the only way I see him coming back is if he is told he can bring penny back by going back in time and thus back to the island…

    just my 2c’s

  364. Duke says:

    Pj broke that shiznit down in post 344. I have no dog in the fight but it is somewhat funny reading people’s fight.

  365. jaime says:

    Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.

  366. Tasha says:

    Yeah, maybe I should have kept reading. I tried to keep my mouth shut but it sounds like, if it’s not them, it will just be someone else. Some people up here are just here to start trouble. They are called trolls. We don’t know the faces behind the names, so I don’t see why people have to start running their mouth anyway. I shouldn’t have wrote what I did but I am very irritated with all this. IMO I don’t see what the “regulars” did wrong. The viciousness and language needs to stop. As a matter of fact, my 10 year old son is up here every week also. This is’t just any blog, it’s always been kind of…what’s the word? Exclusive or formal maybe. We don’t even discuss ourselves up here. That’s why I let him here every week. I am glad he didn’t read what was written last week, but this is a place I let him come and talk about Lost. He goes to school and can deal with childish things there. Anyhow, I am not trying to start trouble. I just think that it’s all stupid and I am glad the others are back. I won’t write anything else about it.

  367. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    In light of what happened in HOY, I am guessing that the economist is…..BEN! That’s right, I’m off my rocker, but it seems to me that Ben has been creating reasons for people to do what he wants. I think the girl that worked for the economist was just a way to keep Sayid on Ben’s team. Or…it’s the obvious choice…Widmore.

  368. Kathy P says:

    I was thinking about Aaron/Kate over the weekend. Someone changed Kates mind. I was thinking that Aaron was related to Jack with Clair being his step sister. So now Kate goes and gets prego (we think) by Jack. Im really starting to wonder if their needs to be a Shephard related baby on the island? And does Kate know this? Did someone tell her she needed to have Jack’s baby?

  369. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325828″]I was thinking about Aaron/Kate over the weekend. Someone changed Kates mind. I was thinking that Aaron was related to Jack with Clair being his step sister. So now Kate goes and gets prego (we think) by Jack. Im really starting to wonder if their needs to be a Shephard related baby on the island? And does Kate know this? Did someone tell her she needed to have Jack’s baby?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    You might be right. We have talked about the fact that they introduced us to Jack’s g-pa, seemingly for no other reason that the get a pair of Christian’s shoes…but I (and others) wonder if g-pa Sheppard(might even be Jacob) has been trying to get back to the island as well.

  370. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”325829″][quote comment=”325828″]I was thinking about Aaron/Kate over the weekend. Someone changed Kates mind. I was thinking that Aaron was related to Jack with Clair being his step sister. So now Kate goes and gets prego (we think) by Jack. Im really starting to wonder if their needs to be a Shephard related baby on the island? And does Kate know this? Did someone tell her she needed to have Jack’s baby?[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    You might be right. We have talked about the fact that they introduced us to Jack’s g-pa, seemingly for no other reason that the get a pair of Christian’s shoes…but I (and others) wonder if g-pa Sheppard(might even be Jacob) has been trying to get back to the island as well.[/quote]

    _________

    Yeah I think the Sheppard’s definately have a family connection. This is all building up for the next generation. Maybe we find out alot of Dharma people are related to our survivors.

  371. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]

    Good point. I would have thought we might have seen something about that in HOY, given that it was a Sayid-centric episode. At this point, it seems like there are three possible answers: a) Ben lied and Sayid is NOT done, b) Sayid killed the economist and we didn’t see it happen, or c) Ben lied about the economist in the first place. I wonder if it will REALLY play into the storyline or if the whole Elsa, bracelet, economist episode plotline was an intricate way to hold off on showing us that Ben was pulling the strings all along?

    : ) P

  372. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325827″][quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    In light of what happened in HOY, I am guessing that the economist is…..BEN! That’s right, I’m off my rocker, but it seems to me that Ben has been creating reasons for people to do what he wants. I think the girl that worked for the economist was just a way to keep Sayid on Ben’s team. Or…it’s the obvious choice…Widmore.[/quote]
    **********************************************

    I have been going back and forth between Ben and Widmore. Widmore though seems to be easy to find when need be, The Economists on the other hand proved to not be an easy find for Sayid. Ben is a great option as well. I like your theory about him creating reasons for people to do what he wants. He saw how easily Sayid fell for Elsa, which in turns makes me think that he also had a hand in Illana and Sayid meeting. The two women’s scenes were so alike.

  373. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325831″][quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]

    Good point. I would have thought we might have seen something about that in HOY, given that it was a Sayid-centric episode. At this point, it seems like there are three possible answers: a) Ben lied and Sayid is NOT done, b) Sayid killed the economist and we didn’t see it happen, or c) Ben lied about the economist in the first place. I wonder if it will REALLY play into the storyline or if the whole Elsa, bracelet, economist episode plotline was an intricate way to hold off on showing us that Ben was pulling the strings all along?

    : ) P[/quote]
    *******************************************

    Excellent point with your first 2 to options. I hadn’t even thought about those possibilities, they both very well could have happened. Hmmmmm

  374. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325832″]I like your theory about him creating reasons for people to do what he wants. He saw how easily Sayid fell for Elsa, which in turns makes me think that he also had a hand in Illana and Sayid meeting. The two women’s scenes were so alike.[/quote]

    I agree. Which is why I had a hard time believing that Sayid would bed Ilana in the first place. Given what he had been through in the last three years, not to mention the last 24 hours, I would have imagined him a little more skeptical. And THEN, given his training in the IRG, not to mention his “ninja moves” we saw on island and in the hospital half drugged up, how the DEVIL did that little snippet of a girl BEST Sayid? It seems to me it wasn’t in his character at all.

    : ) P

  375. Kathy P says:

    [quote comment=”325837″][quote comment=”325832″]I like your theory about him creating reasons for people to do what he wants. He saw how easily Sayid fell for Elsa, which in turns makes me think that he also had a hand in Illana and Sayid meeting. The two women’s scenes were so alike.[/quote]

    I agree. Which is why I had a hard time believing that Sayid would bed Ilana in the first place. Given what he had been through in the last three years, not to mention the last 24 hours, I would have imagined him a little more skeptical. And THEN, given his training in the IRG, not to mention his “ninja moves” we saw on island and in the hospital half drugged up, how the DEVIL did that little snippet of a girl BEST Sayid? It seems to me it wasn’t in his character at all.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ****************************************
    I thought the same thing as well. Then I just assumed that he had a few more drinks then we actually saw him have. And maybe that blurred his judgement and ninja skills

  376. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325837″][quote comment=”325832″]I like your theory about him creating reasons for people to do what he wants. He saw how easily Sayid fell for Elsa, which in turns makes me think that he also had a hand in Illana and Sayid meeting. The two women’s scenes were so alike.[/quote]

    I agree. Which is why I had a hard time believing that Sayid would bed Ilana in the first place. Given what he had been through in the last three years, not to mention the last 24 hours, I would have imagined him a little more skeptical. And THEN, given his training in the IRG, not to mention his “ninja moves” we saw on island and in the hospital half drugged up, how the DEVIL did that little snippet of a girl BEST Sayid? It seems to me it wasn’t in his character at all.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ********************************

    Absolutely, I was thinking the same thing. He kicked some serious butt with horse tranq darts in his neck. It could have been either the scotch or maybe he was just drained from that last few years with Ben and thoughts of Nadia that plague him. He was lonely and hard up for a little action other than fighting. :) Could she have slipped something into his scotch? Also, I love how he asked her if she was a “professional”

  377. Mia says:

    Good point about the Economist. So here is the list of people Sayid killed during his 3 years off the island:

    Man holding Ben at gunpoint
    Golf guy
    Elsa (while trying to find the Economist)
    Russian
    Man outside Institution
    2 Men at Safehouse
    Man at Hospital (not sure if he died?)

    And if it wasn’t for Ben, Sayid would not have known about them. Where they really Widmore’s people or not? Elsa tried to kill Sayid with bullets while some others with darts. Any more thoughts?

  378. katesFriend says:

    [quote] Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again

    Good point. I would have thought we might have seen something about that in HOY, given that it was a Sayid-centric episode. At this point, it seems like there are three possible answers: a) Ben lied and Sayid is NOT done, b) Sayid killed the economist and we didn’t see it happen, or c) Ben lied about the economist in the first place. I wonder if it will REALLY play into the storyline or if the whole Elsa, bracelet, economist episode plotline was an intricate way to hold off on showing us that Ben was pulling the strings all along?

    : ) P[/quote]

    If Ben was having Sayid kill those people for a reason unrelated to them “being after Sayid’s friends” perhaps Ben needed to convince Sayid that he (Sayid) was doing the right thing.

    If no one ever attacked Sayid when he went to kill them for Ben, wouldn’t he start questioning “ummm, why am I killing these people? They don’t seem to be after me or my friends!”

  379. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325837″][quote comment=”325832″]I like your theory about him creating reasons for people to do what he wants. He saw how easily Sayid fell for Elsa, which in turns makes me think that he also had a hand in Illana and Sayid meeting. The two women’s scenes were so alike.[/quote]

    I agree. Which is why I had a hard time believing that Sayid would bed Ilana in the first place. Given what he had been through in the last three years, not to mention the last 24 hours, I would have imagined him a little more skeptical. And THEN, given his training in the IRG, not to mention his “ninja moves” we saw on island and in the hospital half drugged up, how the DEVIL did that little snippet of a girl BEST Sayid? It seems to me it wasn’t in his character at all.

    : ) P[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Don’t forget he was drunk.

  380. Circus Mom says:

    I think Sayid has given up. He thought he was doing something to help his friends when he killed the people on Ben’s list. Then Ben says, all finished. It left Sayid feeling like there was no closure, and no point. I think he was caught by Ilana because he (subconciously) let it happen. He said he was a bad man. He felt he deserved to be punished.

  381. hank vega says:

    Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?

  382. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”325869″]Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?[/quote]
    I don’t know where he got that but it made me think, on the compass issue. In season 1 Locke gave Sayid his compass saying he didn’t need it anymore. I think it was the smae compass from the theorized time loop.

  383. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325869″]Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?[/quote]
    *************************************8

    As far as i can remember Charlie found it in Sawyers stash of items he found on the island. As far as the exact location or who’s luggage he found it in I’m not sure.

  384. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325859″]It left Sayid feeling like there was no closure, and no point. I think he was caught by Ilana because he (subconciously) let it happen. He said he was a bad man. He felt he deserved to be punished.[/quote]
    Right and then he was with Ilana in the airport and saw Hurley, Jack and Kate followed by Sun and Ben on the plane. At this point, maybe he started to realize he was destined to be on the island. He runs through the jungle, is caught by Jin, and locked up with Lil Ben Linus bringing him a sandwich. For Sayid, it couldn’t have been much more than a day or two since he told Ben it would be “unpleasent” when they met again, but I am not sure about that. Sadly, I think Sayid may have fulfilled his island purpose, just as Charlie and Michael before him. I too believe Penny to be dead.

  385. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325879″][quote comment=”325869″]Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?[/quote]
    I don’t know where he got that but it made me think, on the compass issue. In season 1 Locke gave Sayid his compass saying he didn’t need it anymore. I think it was the smae compass from the theorized time loop.[/quote]
    **************************************************

    I know Locke brought a couple compasses to the island. He gave Sayid a compass because he thought it was broken due to the fact that it wasn’t showing true north…or something along those lines

  386. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325883″][quote comment=”325879″][quote comment=”325869″]Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?[/quote]
    I don’t know where he got that but it made me think, on the compass issue. In season 1 Locke gave Sayid his compass saying he didn’t need it anymore. I think it was the smae compass from the theorized time loop.[/quote]
    **************************************************

    I know Locke brought a couple compasses to the island. He gave Sayid a compass because he thought it was broken due to the fact that it wasn’t showing true north…or something along those lines[/quote]
    +++++++++
    Right on the money Jaime.:)

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Compass

  387. jaime says:

    [[/quote]
    For Sayid, it couldn’t have been much more than a day or two since he told Ben it would be “unpleasent” when they met again, but I am not sure about that. [/quote]

    *********************************************

    You know i thought about this as well. How could Ben (If he had) set up the Illana situation in such a short time? I thought Sayid went directly from the Marina to the bar.

  388. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”325883″][quote comment=”325879″][quote comment=”325869″]Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?[/quote]
    I don’t know where he got that but it made me think, on the compass issue. In season 1 Locke gave Sayid his compass saying he didn’t need it anymore. I think it was the smae compass from the theorized time loop.[/quote]
    **************************************************

    I know Locke brought a couple compasses to the island. He gave Sayid a compass because he thought it was broken due to the fact that it wasn’t showing true north…or something along those lines[/quote]
    +++
    I watched it last night so it’s fresh in my mind. Here is the transcript.

    LOCKE: Well, you made a compass. I haven’t seen one of those since I was a Webelos.

    SAYID: What’s a Webelos?

    LOCKE: It’s half way between a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout.

    SAYID: And what does a Webelos do?

    LOCKE: Gets badges, mostly. Ties knots, identifies birds. I wasn’t the most popular kid. I’ll leave you to it. [He hands Sayid the compass from his safari vest.] Maybe this will help your cause.

    SAYID: Don’t you need this?

    LOCKE: Not anymore.

    Later Sayid points out to Jack that the compass dosn’t really point north.

    It also says on Lostpedia that the compass that Richard shows to young Locke is different than the one in the time loop.

  389. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325827″][quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    In light of what happened in HOY, I am guessing that the economist is…..BEN! That’s right, I’m off my rocker, but it seems to me that Ben has been creating reasons for people to do what he wants. I think the girl that worked for the economist was just a way to keep Sayid on Ben’s team. Or…it’s the obvious choice…Widmore.[/quote]
    ******************
    I think it is Ben. He always sets people up so they think they are doing the right thing, but really they are puppets on a string for him. i think he had Sayid’s wife murdered so he could get Sayid to want to work for him. I think the island in the beginning felt sorry for Ben and helped him (maybe healed him after his gunshot wound) but as he became the leader of the others (most likely not their elected leader) his power was abused and his intentions were not for the good of the island and their people but for his own good. I think the island (Jacob?) is trying to rid itself of ben (Ben getting a tumor) and so he is doing everything in his power to fight this…Ben is a sick man and eluded to the fact when he quoted of mice and men and said something to the effect of what lonliness does to a man…Ben doesn’t fit in anywhere! As for the ‘incident’ could it be the power struggle between Widmore and Ben? Maybe that was the downfall of the others and the island?
    Widmore is good IMO…

  390. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment=”325827″][quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    In light of what happened in HOY, I am guessing that the economist is…..BEN! That’s right, I’m off my rocker, but it seems to me that Ben has been creating reasons for people to do what he wants. I think the girl that worked for the economist was just a way to keep Sayid on Ben’s team. Or…it’s the obvious choice…Widmore.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Ben is the economist? Hammer, you’re making my head hurt. (grin) I’ll have to think about that one for awhile.

    8) Jim

  391. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325885″][[/quote]
    For Sayid, it couldn’t have been much more than a day or two since he told Ben it would be “unpleasent” when they met again, but I am not sure about that. [/quote]

    *********************************************

    You know i thought about this as well. How could Ben (If he had) set up the Illana situation in such a short time? I thought Sayid went directly from the Marina to the bar.[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    I was responding to L4E here…sorry i cut your name out.

  392. londonboy says:

    I know it’s odd being surprised at Ben lying, but I was genuinely taken aback when he told Sayid that Locke was probably murdered by Widmore. Everyone else is normally shaded in ambiguity with him, especially as so many others’ motives are questionable (ie. Abbadon). But with that conversation, he just straight out lied.

    My general feeling with Ben is (confusion but also) that he’s morally ambivalent enough to do the horrible things that need to be done. He’s the conscience-free sidekick that allows the others/Others (Alpert/Hawking?) to keep their hands clean. They need him but maybe look down on him. The outburst in the van with Jack and Sun made me think that even more.

    I know others here can’t believe that you could even consider Ben as a ‘good’ guy – I know, he killed Locke, but we still don’t know why and he must have known there was a reason his body had to be on that flight – but that lie was the first that made me think there may be no twist and he’s just bad to the bone. Maybe I’m just slow.

    Oh, and LizS, I still connect Daniel’s crying watching the TV to his card games with Charlotte and his rat experiment rather than a time loop as such. I think I’m in a minority on that. Others (I think) suggest it may be an amnesia issue.

  393. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325885″][[/quote]
    For Sayid, it couldn’t have been much more than a day or two since he told Ben it would be “unpleasent” when they met again, but I am not sure about that. [/quote]

    *********************************************

    You know i thought about this as well. How could Ben (If he had) set up the Illana situation in such a short time? I thought Sayid went directly from the Marina to the bar.[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    I was responding to L4E here…sorry i cut your name out. [quote comment=”325886″][quote comment=”325883″][quote comment=”325879″][quote comment=”325869″]Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?[/quote]
    I don’t know where he got that but it made me think, on the compass issue. In season 1 Locke gave Sayid his compass saying he didn’t need it anymore. I think it was the smae compass from the theorized time loop.[/quote]
    **************************************************

    I know Locke brought a couple compasses to the island. He gave Sayid a compass because he thought it was broken due to the fact that it wasn’t showing true north…or something along those lines[/quote]
    +++
    I watched it last night so it’s fresh in my mind. Here is the transcript.

    LOCKE: Well, you made a compass. I haven’t seen one of those since I was a Webelos.

    SAYID: What’s a Webelos?

    LOCKE: It’s half way between a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout.

    SAYID: And what does a Webelos do?

    LOCKE: Gets badges, mostly. Ties knots, identifies birds. I wasn’t the most popular kid. I’ll leave you to it. [He hands Sayid the compass from his safari vest.] Maybe this will help your cause.

    SAYID: Don’t you need this?

    LOCKE: Not anymore.

    Later Sayid points out to Jack that the compass dosn’t really point north.

    It also says on Lostpedia that the compass that Richard shows to young Locke is different than the one in the time loop.[/quote]
    ********************************************

    I just looked at the Lostpedia link L4E put in the last post. It seems there are a lot of mentions of different compasses.

  394. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”325894″]I know it’s odd being surprised at Ben lying, but I was genuinely taken aback when he told Sayid that Locke was probably murdered by Widmore. Everyone else is normally shaded in ambiguity with him, especially as so many others’ motives are questionable (ie. Abbadon). But with that conversation, he just straight out lied.

    My general feeling with Ben is (confusion but also) that he’s morally ambivalent enough to do the horrible things that need to be done. He’s the conscience-free sidekick that allows the others/Others (Alpert/Hawking?) to keep their hands clean. They need him but maybe look down on him. The outburst in the van with Jack and Sun made me think that even more.

    I know others here can’t believe that you could even consider Ben as a ‘good’ guy – I know, he killed Locke, but we still don’t know why and he must have known there was a reason his body had to be on that flight – but that lie was the first that made me think there may be no twist and he’s just bad to the bone. Maybe I’m just slow.

    Oh, and LizS, I still connect Daniel’s crying watching the TV to his card games with Charlotte and his rat experiment rather than a time loop as such. I think I’m in a minority on that. Others (I think) suggest it may be an amnesia issue.[/quote]
    I don’t think Ben said who murdered Locke, he implyed it. He said I think he was murdered. I think you and I are in danger because of what we did. He said that the guy waiting outside of Hurley’s hospital was waiting for Ben and Sayid.

  395. jaime says:

    I’m leaving work and heading home for the evening but i just wanted to say that I’m glad to see that you all came back from wherever life took you all last week. It wasn’t the same without you…Hammer, L4E, Circus Mom, PJ
    See you all tomorrow :)

  396. Rita says:

    [quote comment=”325894″]I know it’s odd being surprised at Ben lying, but I was genuinely taken aback when he told Sayid that Locke was probably murdered by Widmore. Everyone else is normally shaded in ambiguity with him, especially as so many others’ motives are questionable (ie. Abbadon). But with that conversation, he just straight out lied.
    [/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I know what you mean. I was wondering if, after knowing Ben for as long as we have, we just know more of the truth – We have always known that he lies, but usually we just SUSPECT that he lied, or we find out later that he lied. This felt different because it was so DIRECT. For me it was when he said to Jack, in response to Jack’s question about whether Ben KNEW that Locke had “killed himself” (as far as Jack knew), “Nooooooooo!” (while looking directly in Jack’s eyes, with a most sincere facial expression). Not PRECISELY a lie, since Ben had in fact murdered Locke, but a lie nonetheless since that was the prevailing story.

  397. londonboy says:

    Good point CM, although for a second I thought you were suggesting that you and I were in danger. Just a second, mind…But he knows who murdered Locke (himself) and it wasn’t retribution for the people he and Sayid murdered, so it was a lie. And I connected that to his earlier conversation about it being over when he did reference Widmore.

    Still, that was a natty hat he was wearing.

    My other point that I forgot to mention was that I felt that he was in a way talking about himself when he said that Sayid was capable of doing things other men aren’t and that it wasn’t a choice. And that it’s in his nature. Or I’m reading too much into another of Ben’s manipulations.

  398. londonboy says:

    Rita, that conversation with Jack on the plane, for me, seemed to be about Ben finding out that Mrs Hawking believed (or told Jack) that Locke had committed suicide and so hadn’t realised it was faked/he murder him.

    Which takes me back again to the conversation by the pendulum in 316 when Hawking said Ben was probably lying. The lying part was emphasised but I keep coming back to whether the question Jack asked – did he know about the Lamp Post and Ben probably lying that he didn’t – is relevant.

  399. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”325897″]I’m leaving work and heading home for the evening but i just wanted to say that I’m glad to see that you all came back from wherever life took you all last week. It wasn’t the same without you…Hammer, L4E, Circus Mom, PJ
    See you all tomorrow :)[/quote]
    Thanks Jamie, drive safe.

  400. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment=”325859″]I think Sayid has given up. He thought he was doing something to help his friends when he killed the people on Ben’s list. Then Ben says, all finished. It left Sayid feeling like there was no closure, and no point. I think he was caught by Ilana because he (subconciously) let it happen. He said he was a bad man. He felt he deserved to be punished.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Sayid completes his last kill for Ben and “goes into retirement.” Ben shows up and says there’s a hired gun watching Hurley. Sayid was the one Hurley begged for support on the Searcher while the Six plus were concocting the cover story. Sayid hopes to redeem himself with Hurley, so he flies to California to rescue him and take him somewhere safe. But there is no redemption; there is only a running gun battle with the agents of … someone. Sayid is trapped into being a passenger on Flight 316 and — unaccountably — there is Hurley waiting to board the same flight. Sayid knows that he will eventually come face-to-face with Hurley and Hurley will extract his pound of flesh.

    8) Jim

  401. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”325869″]Does anybody remember where Sawyer found the bottle of MacCutcheon whisky Charlie ended up drinking with Desmond?[/quote]
    _________________________
    Sawyer’s stash. He asked for it back when he returned from being held captive with Kate.

  402. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325821″]
    Widmore is good IMO…[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    He cannot be. He killed one of their own, rememba?

  403. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325899″]Good point CM, although for a second I thought you were suggesting that you and I were in danger. Just a second, mind…But he knows who murdered Locke (himself) and it wasn’t retribution for the people he and Sayid murdered, so it was a lie. And I connected that to his earlier conversation about it being over when he did reference Widmore.

    Still, that was a natty hat he was wearing.

    My other point that I forgot to mention was that I felt that he was in a way talking about himself when he said that Sayid was capable of doing things other men aren’t and that it wasn’t a choice. And that it’s in his nature. Or I’m reading too much into another of Ben’s manipulations.[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    I think that Ben was manipulating Sayid, telling him he was a murderer (or a killer?), so Sayid could have the strenght to shoot Ben in 1977, the same strenght he had as a kid to killed that chicken.

    Ben remembers Sayid from his past. Desmond is the only one that can have his past changed (Daniel incident). The rules don’t apply to him, but they do apply to everyone else.

  404. hank vega says:

    So it’s pretty clear to me that Ben remembers, so does Widmore and Alpert. I think the incident is about somebody getting to close to him/herself.

    And what about the plane at the bottom of the ocean? Are we sure that was a plant? Maybe Faraday was crying because it really happened. At least in one end of the string.

  405. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325904″][quote comment=”325859″]I think Sayid has given up. He thought he was doing something to help his friends when he killed the people on Ben’s list. Then Ben says, all finished. It left Sayid feeling like there was no closure, and no point. I think he was caught by Ilana because he (subconciously) let it happen. He said he was a bad man. He felt he deserved to be punished.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Sayid completes his last kill for Ben and “goes into retirement.” Ben shows up and says there’s a hired gun watching Hurley. Sayid was the one Hurley begged for support on the Searcher while the Six plus were concocting the cover story. Sayid hopes to redeem himself with Hurley, so he flies to California to rescue him and take him somewhere safe. But there is no redemption; there is only a running gun battle with the agents of … someone. Sayid is trapped into being a passenger on Flight 316 and — unaccountably — there is Hurley waiting to board the same flight. Sayid knows that he will eventually come face-to-face with Hurley and Hurley will extract his pound of flesh.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++=
    Good stuff Jim, totally forgot about the Hurley Searcher scene…..hmmmmm.

  406. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”325892″][quote comment=”325827″][quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    In light of what happened in HOY, I am guessing that the economist is…..BEN! That’s right, I’m off my rocker, but it seems to me that Ben has been creating reasons for people to do what he wants. I think the girl that worked for the economist was just a way to keep Sayid on Ben’s team. Or…it’s the obvious choice…Widmore.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Ben is the economist? Hammer, you’re making my head hurt. (grin) I’ll have to think about that one for awhile.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    Sorry, wasn’t going for that effect. LOL

    I was hoping that it would provoke ‘out of the box’ thinking…debunk once your head stops hurting. :)

  407. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”325896″] I don’t think Ben said who murdered Locke, he implyed it. He said I think he was murdered. I think you and I are in danger because of what we did. He said that the guy waiting outside of Hurley’s hospital was waiting for Ben and Sayid.[/quote]

    Yeah but even saying, “I think he was…” um Ben you KNOW he was…cuz YOU did it. That’s why it’s an out and out lie.

  408. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment=”325927″][quote comment=”325892″][quote comment=”325827″][quote comment=”325821″]Here is a topic i have been thinking about lately.
    The Economist.
    When Sayid killed the Russian guy, Ben told him he was “done” and that all of Widmore’s people who were a threat were dead. What about the Economist? I know this has been talked about it other threads and debated as to who it could be but this episode made me question it again.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    In light of what happened in HOY, I am guessing that the economist is…..BEN! That’s right, I’m off my rocker, but it seems to me that Ben has been creating reasons for people to do what he wants. I think the girl that worked for the economist was just a way to keep Sayid on Ben’s team. Or…it’s the obvious choice…Widmore.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Ben is the economist? Hammer, you’re making my head hurt. (grin) I’ll have to think about that one for awhile.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    Sorry, wasn’t going for that effect. LOL

    I was hoping that it would provoke ‘out of the box’ thinking…debunk once your head stops hurting. :)[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I don’t think I can debunk it. Sayid is in Berlin to kill the Economist…, maybe. He tracks down Elsa, assistant to the target(?), who has a cell phone which, when it rings, requires her to be at her bosses side “instantly.” Who else is in Berlin?

    “Why it’s my old friend, Ben Linus! Fancy meeting you here.”

    Ben wants Elsa dead because she knows too much? He wants the better of his two hired guns to go after the final targets? He wants….

    There’s a lot of juicy stuff that I think we’ll never see. If D & C tried to fit it all in, it would have no depth. They told us they just don’t have time to explain the hurleybird; they probably don’t have time for this one either. (sigh….)

    8) Jim

  409. wally p says:

    [quote comment=”325922″]So it’s pretty clear to me that Ben remembers, so does Widmore and Alpert. I think the incident is about somebody getting to close to him/herself.

    And what about the plane at the bottom of the ocean? Are we sure that was a plant? Maybe Faraday was crying because it really happened. At least in one end of the string.[/quote]

    That is interesting to me. I dont know what he knows about the plane, but probably something that he cant recall. Maybe he’s one of the bodies on the plant?! I think also though that one scene could have been something that hasn’t happened yet. Just like the scene with him underground with the construction workers… those could both be flashfowards. or not.

  410. Jim in Georgia says:

    May I add a long-range teaser “before we go” to WHH? Way back in “Pilot, Part 2″ Rousseau’s radio message included the statement, “Brennan took the keys.” What keys? Something like those metal things in my pocket? Or was she talking about crypto keys, the data or software used to encrypt/encode messages. After all, she was talking about a radio station.

    Just a thought,

    8) Jim

  411. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325909″][quote comment=”325821″]
    Widmore is good IMO…[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    He cannot be. He killed one of their own, rememba?[/quote]
    *************************

    I guess i didn’t think he killed one of the others…just was shown beating him…but remember, this might be another example of Ben using an incident and twisting it to what he needs…he showed it to Locke(?) to “prove” that Widmore is bad…again, I am just not convinced he is bad…could be Ben is the bad guy and just twists things to benefit him and get what he needs/wants out of people.

    -miss

  412. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325909″][quote comment=”325821″]
    Widmore is good IMO…[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    He cannot be. He killed one of their own, rememba?[/quote]
    *************************

    I guess i didn’t think he killed one of the others…just was shown beating him…I didn’t think it was confirmed he was an other…but remember, this might be another example of Ben using an incident and twisting it to what he needs…he showed it to Locke(?) to “prove” that Widmore is bad…again, I am just not convinced he is bad…could be Ben is the bad guy and just twists things to benefit him and get what he needs/wants out of people.

    -miss

  413. Miss lost says:

    oops…hit it twice!

  414. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment=”325896″][quote comment=”325894″]I know it’s odd being surprised at Ben lying, but…

    quote]

    =====
    I wish I knew where to look for transcripts for confirmation of this. I usually listen very closely to Ben because I believe he is careful NOT to lie and his excellent manipulation of language makes it possible to mislead people and to fulfill their expectations at that moment. I believe the island punishes liars and Ben knows it so he carefully walks the line. I think think think, regarding Locke’s reported suicide, he says to Jack “I hadn’t heard that.” Technically not a lie. And then in the exchange between Ben and Sayid regarding who might have killed Locke, I think think think that Locke says something like “If you ask me, I would say he was murdered. . . I would say Widmore did it.” Walking a very fine line, but not technically lying.

    But it’s late and I’m already a bit sleep deprived, so please feel free to correct me if my memory fails.

  415. Tasha says:

    I can’t wait til tommorow night!

  416. Mateo says:

    What would validate killing all of the Dharma people? I’m sorry, Ben is bad no matter what, not even the LOST writers can get the most loyal fans to believe killing all of those people is good… Unless the whole world ends if he doesnt? but still, if he was at least decent he would at the very least bury them instead of throwing them in a ditch to rot on top of one another! As much as I want Ben to end up being good, its not going to happen. Maybe both Widmore & Ben are bad.
    This show is way too addicting, now i know what heroin addicts go through…having to wait a whole week for a fix!

  417. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”325968″]I wish I knew where to look for transcripts for confirmation of this. I usually listen very closely to Ben because I believe he is careful NOT to lie and his excellent manipulation of language makes it possible to mislead people and to fulfill their expectations at that moment. I believe the island punishes liars and Ben knows it so he carefully walks the line. I think think think, regarding Locke’s reported suicide, he says to Jack “I hadn’t heard that.” Technically not a lie. And then in the exchange between Ben and Sayid regarding who might have killed Locke, I think think think that Locke says something like “If you ask me, I would say he was murdered. . . I would say Widmore did it.” Walking a very fine line, but not technically lying.

    But it’s late and I’m already a bit sleep deprived, so please feel free to correct me if my memory fails.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I think you have a good point there – he is always careful to manipulate his words so that he is skirting the lie. I had a roommate who was very good at it – called it creative truth-telling. I suspect that in another life, Ben would have made a good politician! LOL.

    Anyway, to check transcripts, go to Lostpedia. Hold your mouse over the menu to the left where it says “features” and a pop-up menu with “transcripts” on it will appear. Keep in mind that the transcripts are not from ABC – they are user-created, and as such may have errors or be interpreted to say one thing when the writers intended another.

    Good luck!

    : ) P

  418. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325964″][quote comment=”325909″][quote comment=”325821″]
    Widmore is good IMO…[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    He cannot be. He killed one of their own, rememba?[/quote]
    *************************

    I guess i didn’t think he killed one of the others…just was shown beating him…I didn’t think it was confirmed he was an other…but remember, this might be another example of Ben using an incident and twisting it to what he needs…he showed it to Locke(?) to “prove” that Widmore is bad…again, I am just not convinced he is bad…could be Ben is the bad guy and just twists things to benefit him and get what he needs/wants out of people.

    -miss[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    I was refering to the guy young Widmore killed back in 1954, the one who was revealing the location of their camp to locke.

  419. Miss lost says:

    Have been thinking alot about Widmore and Ben and was wondering if one possible rift between them could have been a woman? Penny’s mom? Isn’t it possible that penny could have been born on the island? There have been comments about Juliette looking like “her”…Penny’s mom? Just trying to think out loud on this one…
    -miss

  420. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325947″][quote comment=”325922″]So it’s pretty clear to me that Ben remembers, so does Widmore and Alpert. I think the incident is about somebody getting to close to him/herself.

    And what about the plane at the bottom of the ocean? Are we sure that was a plant? Maybe Faraday was crying because it really happened. At least in one end of the string.[/quote]

    That is interesting to me. I dont know what he knows about the plane, but probably something that he cant recall. Maybe he’s one of the bodies on the plant?! I think also though that one scene could have been something that hasn’t happened yet. Just like the scene with him underground with the construction workers… those could both be flashfowards. or not.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    I would have to watch that episode again, but it is possible that they course correct things and Desmond keep pushing the button, or Radzinski for that matter, and everybody ends up at the bottom of the ocean. the end. that would explain Daniel tears.

    The scene at the construction site is clearly from 1974-75. They are building the Orchid and Peter Chang still has both arms. I bet Widmore cut his arm too, he wanted to cut Juliette’s in 1954.

  421. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325964″]

    I guess i didn’t think he killed one of the others…just was shown beating him…I didn’t think it was confirmed he was an other…but remember, this might be another example of Ben using an incident and twisting it to what he needs…he showed it to Locke(?) to “prove” that Widmore is bad…again, I am just not convinced he is bad..[/quote]
    In 1954 Widmore snapped the “other” guys neck when he was about to tell Juliet the “others” location.

    This is brought up alot and I always wonder why does one have to be good? Can’t they both be bad?

  422. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325978″][quote comment=”325964″]

    I guess i didn’t think he killed one of the others…just was shown beating him…I didn’t think it was confirmed he was an other…but remember, this might be another example of Ben using an incident and twisting it to what he needs…he showed it to Locke(?) to “prove” that Widmore is bad…again, I am just not convinced he is bad..[/quote]
    In 1954 Widmore snapped the “other” guys neck when he was about to tell Juliet the “others” location.

    This is brought up alot and I always wonder why does one have to be good? Can’t they both be bad?[/quote]
    ***************************

    Thanks for the reminder…I remembered Locke killed one of them but forgot about Widmore snapping his neck…and I guess they both could be bad…i guess somehow I see it as we are suppose to have the classic good vs evil and we have to chose one of them…but it might be they are both bad…nice to talk to folks who watch LOST…other than my husband, none of our friends watch so no one to talk to in regards to all the possible theories!
    -miss

  423. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325971″]What would validate killing all of the Dharma people? [/quote]
    We don’t know if all the Dharma people perished or not. It seems to me with the Ethan reveal, they weren’t.

    Ben also claimed to Hurley the Purge wasn’t his decision but their leader/leaders ( Widmore? )

  424. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”325982″][quote comment=”325971″]What would validate killing all of the Dharma people? [/quote]
    We don’t know if all the Dharma people perished or not. It seems to me with the Ethan reveal, they weren’t.

    Ben also claimed to Hurley the Purge wasn’t his decision but their leader/leaders ( Widmore? )[/quote]
    *************

    could be Widmore…it is the right time frame for him to be leader…and from the time he is the supposed leader up until the time we meet Ben when the plane first crashed there is a BIG gap of time that we still don’t know what happened on the island!
    Hope we get some good puzzle pieces tomorrow night…can’t wait.
    -miss

  425. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325977″]

    The scene at the construction site is clearly from 1974-75. They are building the Orchid and Peter Chang still has both arms. I bet Widmore cut his arm too, he wanted to cut Juliette’s in 1954.[/quote]
    Not really sure if Chang’s arm is evidence. The Swan orientation film and the Pearl orientation film were both made in 1930. He had one arm in the Swan and 2 in the Pearl. I do agree that Widmore may be responsible gor his arm. It’s either him or smokey.

  426. hank vega says:

    [quote comment=”325982″][quote comment=”325971″]What would validate killing all of the Dharma people? [/quote]
    We don’t know if all the Dharma people perished or not. It seems to me with the Ethan reveal, they weren’t.

    Ben also claimed to Hurley the Purge wasn’t his decision but their leader/leaders ( Widmore? )[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Due to the few references in the show, Ben was probably not in charge of all the others. My guess is that he is in charge of welcoming of the 815 group. Maybe some of them are in higher branches. Locke, Sawyer? They are brothers right?

  427. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”325987″][quote comment=”325977″]

    The scene at the construction site is clearly from 1974-75. They are building the Orchid and Peter Chang still has both arms. I bet Widmore cut his arm too, he wanted to cut Juliette’s in 1954.[/quote]
    Not really sure if Chang’s arm is evidence. The Swan orientation film and the Pearl orientation film were both made in 1930. He had one arm in the Swan and 2 in the Pearl. I do agree that Widmore may be responsible gor his arm. It’s either him or smokey.[/quote]
    OOPS! They were made in 1980, not 1930, and I can’t wait until tomorrow either miss.:)

  428. hank vega says:

    I wonder if Widmore cut Faraday’s foot too.

  429. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”325991″][/quote]
    OOPS! They were made in 1980, not 1930, and I can’t wait until tomorrow either miss.:)[/quote]

    *stops hyperventilating into paper bag*

    Thank goodness.

  430. jaime says:

    [quote comment=”325909″][quote comment=”325821″]
    Widmore is good IMO…[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    He cannot be. He killed one of their own, rememba?[/quote]
    ****************************************************

    Ya, i don’t think you quoted this right. I would never definitively said Widmore was good. I’m still up in the air with him and Ben. Good, Bad, Good, Bad.

  431. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment=”325972″][quote comment=”325968″]I wish I knew where to look for transcripts for confirmation of this. I usually listen very closely to Ben because I believe he is careful NOT to lie and his excellent manipulation of language makes it possible to mislead people and to fulfill their expectations at that moment. I believe the island punishes liars and Ben knows it so he carefully walks the line. I think think think, regarding Locke’s reported suicide, he says to Jack “I hadn’t heard that.” Technically not a lie. And then in the exchange between Ben and Sayid regarding who might have killed Locke, I think think think that Locke says something like “If you ask me, I would say he was murdered. . . I would say Widmore did it.” Walking a very fine line, but not technically lying.

    But it’s late and I’m already a bit sleep deprived, so please feel free to correct me if my memory fails.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I think you have a good point there – he is always careful to manipulate his words so that he is skirting the lie. I had a roommate who was very good at it – called it creative truth-telling. I suspect that in another life, Ben would have made a good politician! LOL.

    Anyway, to check transcripts, go to Lostpedia. Hold your mouse over the menu to the left where it says “features” and a pop-up menu with “transcripts” on it will appear. Keep in mind that the transcripts are not from ABC – they are user-created, and as such may have errors or be interpreted to say one thing when the writers intended another.

    Good luck!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ============
    Thanks for the tips on script finding! Looking so forward to tonight! It’s great to have you guys back.

  432. hlcfym says:

    I have read the “hurleybird” refrenced a few times on here, and its really bothering me because I can’t for the life of me figure out what you’re talking about!! Could someone spark my memory please??

  433. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”326196″]I have read the “hurleybird” refrenced a few times on here, and its really bothering me because I can’t for the life of me figure out what you’re talking about!! Could someone spark my memory please??[/quote]
    I think it was in either the season 1 or season 2 finale, there was a scene where Hurley and some other Losties were walking through the jungle, and a large bird flew over them. The bird made a screeching noise that sounded like it was saying “Hurley”.

  434. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment=”325671″][quote comment=”325658″]The clique of long-time posters removed themselves initially to punish Frank, hankvega, and iowakid who posted some very rude comments. Unfortunately, they posted quite a few snide comments themselves at another Lost blog, mocking the bloggers here for using poor grammar and spelling, forming weak ideas, and generally devolving without their input.
    [/quote]
    Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about by your statement in the first sentence. There was no boycott to punish anyone. If you are going to claim certain things please get your facts straight and stop spreading propaganda.

    Good first post Mr. Leah. Did you happen to read the hateful posts she wrote on that blog? A lady should not utter such things.

    BTW, when reading blogs it is much easier to understand ideas when grammar and spelling are relatively accurate.[/quote]
    /////////////////
    isnt it a good job i cut and pasted all your comments before you deleted the evidence!your a liar and a fraud.

  435. Lostie82 says:

    i have been bothered by the thought of sayid being compared to that man.. but got me into thinking…

    maybe this episode is showing us that people can get an information without having to give so much pain to the person… look how the old guy did it… he didn’t even hit sayid.. he just gave him a drug.. that was it.
    in a way we could say that sayid realized how violent his ways were in getting answers. while the old guy (sorry i forgot his name) didn’t have to do anything violent.
    it could also be a way to reflect on himself…

    but then i would have expected something more from that… i think it’s a poor comparison of sayid’s character…

    we see a bit of sayid’s childhood which was never brought up before.. we see that he has a brother. so far i haven’t seen anyone bringing this up.
    i’m curious if we could see more of that brother in the upcoming episodes.. also, will he be coincidentally seen on the island as well…
    i do miss the old tricks they put on season 1 and season 2.. putting their dead love ones on the island.. or some people in the past that they were trying to get away from… suddenly appears out of nowhere.. i kind of missed that… don’t you guys?
    i remember how they tried to introduce each character by doing that.. remember jack and his dead father… who turns up not to be dead… then kate with the horse… then sawyer with the old conman.. so many other things.. oh yeah! like that fake priest who saw his brother’s remains on the island..
    oops sorry guys didn’t mean it to be that long.. anyway, just my thoughts..

  436. kira99 says:

    Firesticks are easily lit and burn for enough time to get other kindling and smaller sticks into a good fire.

    Btw, OMG.. I do really love this show.. He’s Our You is the tenth episode of Season 5 of Lost and the ninety-sixth produced hour of the series as a whole.

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