Whatever Happened, Happened

kate_s5.jpg
What a cliffhanger from last week – show of hands from everyone who thinks Ben is dead or is going to die (no hands, crickets chirping, etc.)? There are two lines of thought here – one that Sayid did manage to kill Ben as a child and therefore this spins off into an alternate timeline (far-fetched IMO) and then those that think somehow little Ben survives this mishap and goes on to become the evil genius we have grown to know and love. Ultimately, I fall into the camp that subscribes to the latter of those two scenarios, and further believe that these events have already taken place in Ben’s life, but are now just being realized in the life of the survivors of Flight 815 – hence last week’s episode where big Ben cryptically called Sayid a killer, and then ultimately Sayid delivered that line to little Ben when he shot him.

ABC’s Official Show Description

Spoiler Alert

“Kate goes to extreme measures to save Ben’s life when Jack refuses to help. Meanwhile, Kate begins to tell the truth about the lie in order to protect Aaron”

So, based on the show description this looks to be an episode focused around Kate and she is instrumental in saving Ben’s life. Hopefully we’ll find out what she did with Aaron prior to jumping on Flight 316 and quite possibly what Sawyer whispered to her at the end of Season 5 before he jumped out of the helicopter. This should prove to be quite an intense episode with little Ben’s life hanging in the balance!

Episode preview for Whatever Happened, Happened

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773 Responses to Whatever Happened, Happened

  1. Tasha says:

    So, I actually watched the sneak peeks. I am so excited about tonite! It’s crazy. I am still sticking with, this has all happened already:) Ben is going to live. He just has to. I think…..

  2. Circus Mom says:

    Morning Tasha, I watched the sneak peaks too. Now I will be twice as distracted all day.

  3. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326056"]Morning Tasha, I watched the sneak peaks too. Now I will be twice as distracted all day.[/quote]

    ________

    Yeah I am alreaady on youtube watching the same promo over and over LOL. Anyone here have a Lost myspace page?

  4. LostGrrl says:

    Ladies,

    Unfortunately, I can’t see the video here at work, but I’ll assume from your enthusiasm that it’s a good one. 11 and a half hours! Not that I’m counting…

  5. Jim in Georgia says:

    From my entry on another blog:

    “(Wimpy) Ben is dead; long live the new (cunning) Ben!”

    Wimpy and cunning, of course, are not antonyms, but…?

    8) Jim

  6. PJSander says:

    I am hopeful that more pieces of the puzzle will start to fall into place.

    I imagine it is a coincidence (if there is such a thing on LOST!) that the lightbulb hanging behind Kate in the promo photo looks like the head of the man on the cover of the book that BenBoy gave Sayid, but still…

    Eleven hours!

    : ) P

  7. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326064"]I am hopeful that more pieces of the puzzle will start to fall into place.

    I imagine it is a coincidence (if there is such a thing on LOST!) that the lightbulb hanging behind Kate in the promo photo looks like the head of the man on the cover of the book that BenBoy gave Sayid, but still…

    Eleven hours!

    : ) P[/quote]
    __

    Don’t mistake coincidence with fate lol.

  8. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="326064"]I am hopeful that more pieces of the puzzle will start to fall into place.

    I imagine it is a coincidence (if there is such a thing on LOST!) that the lightbulb hanging behind Kate in the promo photo looks like the head of the man on the cover of the book that BenBoy gave Sayid, but still…

    Eleven hours!

    : ) P[/quote]

    !!!!Give Kate the sugar cube!!!!

    Thought lots about the Carlos Castaneda book. I’ve read some of his stuff (its trippy) but not the book that was in last weeks show. He has a lot of stuff related to “finding ones purpose” Cant believe its already lost night-

    and no offense Sayid, but I’m glad I can have Kates mug on my screen at work this week. Been looking at Sayid, Ben, Sawyer…too long.

  9. katesFriend says:

    Why is Kate standing like that in the promo pic? It looks very unnatural!

    Can’t wait for tonight! Yay Wednesdays!

  10. Jason says:

    Not really on topic with tonight’s episode, but I am trying to remember what Walt said to Locke when he met him outside his school. Did Walt mention that he had a dream about Locke on the island wearing a suit? And didn’t he mention something about the people around him on the island not liking him? I wonder if Walt still has a big part to play in all of this. The other were clearly afraid of him or at least very concerned when they were keeping him in room #23. I just think that somehow Walt fits back into the storyline somewhere.

  11. lost4ever says:

    Judging by the title, I guess those who thought they were always apart of Dharma were correct, WHH. Good job.:)

    It appears to be a Kate episode and hopefully another FB, the good story-telling, IMO. I too hope we will see what Sawyer “whispered” to her on the chopper and what she did with Aaron.

  12. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326077"]Judging by the title, I guess those who thought they were always apart of Dharma were correct, WHH. Good job.:)

    It appears to be a Kate episode and hopefully another FB, the good story-telling, IMO. I too hope we will see what Sawyer “whispered” to her on the chopper and what she did with Aaron.[/quote]

    __________

    Yeah, if they follow the same FB line as they did Sayid, we hopefully will see what happened from the time Kate left the dock til she ended up at Jack’s. My theory is that Aaron is back on the island somehow. Maybe because I am sticking with, I think it was Claire in that scene with Sun and to me it looked like she was holding a baby, so not sure how the baby would fit in but I think it’s a clue! lol. It may just be me seeing that anyway. It’s like when you look at clouds and you see something different than the person standing next to you.

  13. LostGrrl says:

    I happen to like Kate (unlike many others, apparently) and am looking forward to some ANSWERS!

    Why did she decide to leave Aaron?

    With whom did she leave him?

    What was Sawyer’s secret, and did she complete it?

    Now that she’s in the DI, is she looking to start off with Sawyer where they left off (in the future!)

    9 hours!

  14. Matt says:

    I’m with you, Will. I think Ben has to survive.

    If he were to die, then too much of what has happened in Seasons 1-5 would be negated (i.e., would never have happened because adult Ben would never have existed). The show would be even more psychedelic and complicated. For one thing, I think Sayid would no longer know why he even shot Ben.

    You never know, though. I’m thinking that underground wheel needs to get turned again eventually, which could turn everything upside down again even if Ben dies.

  15. LINS says:

    [quote comment="326056"]Morning Tasha, I watched the sneak peaks too. Now I will be twice as distracted all day.[/quote]

    Oh my goodness, I watched them too and I can’t wait for tonight!! I hope we do find out what happened with Aaron, she seemed upset about leaving him…and I hope we find out what she was doing for Sawyer.

    It will be interesting to see what happens to little Ben, I mean, if the losties were really there all along as a part of Dharma, then it makes sense that Jack would step in and save him, as some have suggested, because that’s what he did all along…but I guess we’ll find out…

  16. m@ says:

    [quote comment="326077"]Judging by the title, I guess those who thought they were always apart of Dharma were correct, WHH. Good job.:)

    It appears to be a Kate episode and hopefully another FB, the good story-telling, IMO. I too hope we will see what Sawyer “whispered” to her on the chopper and what she did with Aaron.[/quote]

    In a Darlton podcast, they promised Kate flashbacks this week….get excited, we should be getting some great insights tonight!

  17. Miss lost says:

    i am sticking with the idea that Ben had something to do with the disappearance of Aaron and the reason why kate got on the plane. I think Kate might have something to do with saving young Ben…needs him alive if she is ever going to see Aaron again…I agree with many others who said this is possibly a “rebirth” for Ben and why he says he was born on the island when we all know he was not.
    -miss

  18. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326081"]I’m with you, Will. I think Ben has to survive.

    If he were to die, then too much of what has happened in Seasons 1-5 would be negated (i.e., would never have happened because adult Ben would never have existed). The show would be even more psychedelic and complicated. For one thing, I think Sayid would no longer know why he even shot Ben.

    You never know, though. I’m thinking that underground wheel needs to get turned again eventually, which could turn everything upside down again even if Ben dies.[/quote]

    __________

    I agree with everyone on this one. The only other thing I can think of with this and the time loop is if the Losties die or are killed. Reincarnation occurs. Umm…I have more thoughts on this but don’t know how to explain them at the moment.

  19. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326087"]I think Kate might have something to do with saving young Ben…needs him alive if she is ever going to see Aaron again…
    -miss[/quote]
    ***************************************

    I really like this Miss lost. I’m really looking forward to getting some answers regarding Aaron, Kate and hopefully finding out what Sawyer whispered. See if it did have something to do with Cassidy and Clementine. It would be cool to have some more FB’s to clear these Q’s up.

  20. K.C. says:

    Re: Sawyer’s whisper to Kate. Maybe it has to do with Sawyer’s daughter. I forget, did Sawyer even know that he had a daughter with the woman he conned? Didn’t she and Kate hang around together for a while?

  21. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326098"]Re: Sawyer’s whisper to Kate. Maybe it has to do with Sawyer’s daughter. I forget, did Sawyer even know that he had a daughter with the woman he conned? Didn’t she and Kate hang around together for a while?[/quote]
    *********************************************

    Sawyer knows about his daughter Clementine. Kate and Cassidy shared a few scenes together but i don’t think Kate knew who she was.

  22. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326077"]Judging by the title, I guess those who thought they were always apart of Dharma were correct, WHH. Good job.:)

    It appears to be a Kate episode and hopefully another FB, the good story-telling, IMO. I too hope we will see what Sawyer “whispered” to her on the chopper and what she did with Aaron.[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Since the fb would actually be something that happened in the future, would we call them ffs instead? :)
    Since I have been thinking that all the TT to the past episodes should be seen as fb (if WHH), it really gets complicated – thinking in terms of a linear time line, events are either in the past, present, or future, but if you look at any ONE person’s individual time line, an event from the future may be in THEIR past. Anyway, just saying that the terms “flash forward” and “flash back” may now be moot.

  23. Zarggg says:

    (Occasional reader, first time poster. I’ve actually been away from the blog since the blast door map was posted — Long time, eh?)

    Ben MUST survive. The show has gone out of its way to show time and time again that you can’t **** with the timeline (unless your name is Daniel Faraday, but I have my own theories about that).

    I agree with the speculators from last week’s episode who said that Ben will live and the gunshot wound would be the impetus for the tumor Jack will remove in 2004. In this universe, time does course-correct. We’ve seen it happen before.

  24. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326101"](Occasional reader, first time poster. I’ve actually been away from the blog since the blast door map was posted — Long time, eh?)

    Ben MUST survive. The show has gone out of its way to show time and time again that you can’t **** with the timeline (unless your name is Daniel Faraday, but I have my own theories about that).

    I agree with the speculators from last week’s episode who said that Ben will live and the gunshot wound would be the impetus for the tumor Jack will remove in 2004. In this universe, time does course-correct. We’ve seen it happen before.[/quote]
    **************************************************

    So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?

  25. hank vega says:

    [quote comment="326066"][quote comment="326064"]I am hopeful that more pieces of the puzzle will start to fall into place.

    I imagine it is a coincidence (if there is such a thing on LOST!) that the lightbulb hanging behind Kate in the promo photo looks like the head of the man on the cover of the book that BenBoy gave Sayid, but still…

    Eleven hours!

    : ) P[/quote]

    !!!!Give Kate the sugar cube!!!!

    Thought lots about the Carlos Castaneda book. I’ve read some of his stuff (its trippy) but not the book that was in last weeks show. He has a lot of stuff related to “finding ones purpose” Cant believe its already lost night-

    and no offense Sayid, but I’m glad I can have Kates mug on my screen at work this week. Been looking at Sayid, Ben, Sawyer…too long.[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    You should read it. It´s probably the best book of the series.

  26. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="326099"][quote comment="326098"]Re: Sawyer’s whisper to Kate. Maybe it has to do with Sawyer’s daughter. I forget, did Sawyer even know that he had a daughter with the woman he conned? Didn’t she and Kate hang around together for a while?[/quote]
    *********************************************

    Sawyer knows about his daughter Clementine. Kate and Cassidy shared a few scenes together but i don’t think Kate knew who she was.[/quote]
    *******************
    Sawyer saw a picture of his baby daughter while in jail…he denied it was his…but later when he got the reward money for disclosing the location of the stolen money he had the money set up in an account for his daughter.
    -miss

  27. Zarggg says:

    [quote comment="326103"]So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?[/quote]
    Not sure if I understood your wording correctly. Boy!Ben cannot die, because he still has to cause the Purge and all the other things we’ve seen Adult!Ben do.

  28. RGS says:

    [quote comment="326066"]
    !!!!Give Kate the sugar cube!!!!

    and no offense Sayid, but I’m glad I can have Kates mug on my screen at work this week. Been looking at Sayid, Ben, Sawyer…too long.[/quote]

    I’m neutral when it comes to Kate, though I used to be more of a fan. Anyway, the way they have her posing, and how she seems to be pokin’ out her bum, makes it look like she has a bright future behind her. ;p

  29. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326108"][quote comment="326103"]So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?[/quote]
    Not sure if I understood your wording correctly. Boy!Ben cannot die, because he still has to cause the Purge and all the other things we’ve seen Adult!Ben do.[/quote]
    *****************************************************
    Regarding your earlier quote from above “In this universe, time does course-correct. We’ve seen it happen before” My Q was.. if he doesn’t die now do you think he will eventually because of course correction

  30. Heidi says:

    I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)

  31. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326110"][quote comment="326108"][quote comment="326103"]So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?[/quote]
    Not sure if I understood your wording correctly. Boy!Ben cannot die, because he still has to cause the Purge and all the other things we’ve seen Adult!Ben do.[/quote]
    *****************************************************
    Regarding your earlier quote from above “In this universe, time does course-correct. We’ve seen it happen before” My Q was.. if he doesn’t die now do you think he will eventually because of course correction[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Well, eventually, sure! Like all of us. :) But I think in this case, if WHH, then we know he doesn’t die at least until AFTER the time in which we see him alive in the future. JMO.

  32. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326112"][quote comment="326110"][quote comment="326108"][quote comment="326103"]So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?[/quote]
    Not sure if I understood your wording correctly. Boy!Ben cannot die, because he still has to cause the Purge and all the other things we’ve seen Adult!Ben do.[/quote]
    *****************************************************
    Regarding your earlier quote from above “In this universe, time does course-correct. We’ve seen it happen before” My Q was.. if he doesn’t die now do you think he will eventually because of course correction[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Well, eventually, sure! Like all of us. :) But I think in this case, if WHH, then we know he doesn’t die at least until AFTER the time in which we see him alive in the future. JMO.[/quote]
    _________________
    Ha, pushed the “submit” too fast. Your question was about course correction, and what I meant to say was that, in Ben’s case, LIVING would be the course correction, to make sure he makes it to the adult Ben we know and “love”. Again, JMO.

  33. Hammer says:

    At this point I still interpret WHH as ‘things’ are supposed to happen. Not that they ALWAYS happened before….I think. :)

  34. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326108"][quote comment="326103"]So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?[/quote]
    Not sure if I understood your wording correctly. Boy!Ben cannot die, because he still has to cause the Purge and all the other things we’ve seen Adult!Ben do.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Ben claimed to Hurley the Purge wasn’t his decision.

  35. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326111"]I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)[/quote]
    _________________________________-
    Heidi that reminds me: whatever happened to Desmond’s vision of Claire and Aaron boarding the chopper, that he told Charlie about? Was he lying, or is that yet to come? And if yet to come, could it be Aaron he saw – who would now be a child of at least 3 or 4years old? If Aaron is not YET on the island, I think he MUST still be coming. Remember, he’s “special”!

  36. Hammer says:

    Oh…and…WHH also mean that you can’t change major things, like killing someone so that their offspring don’t exist, etc. IMO

  37. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326115"][quote comment="326108"][quote comment="326103"]So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?[/quote]
    Not sure if I understood your wording correctly. Boy!Ben cannot die, because he still has to cause the Purge and all the other things we’ve seen Adult!Ben do.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Ben claimed to Hurley the Purge wasn’t his decision.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    He’s a liar!! :)

  38. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326112"][quote comment="326110"][quote comment="326108"][quote comment="326103"]So if little Ben doesn’t die with he eventually because the island will want course correction?[/quote]
    Not sure if I understood your wording correctly. Boy!Ben cannot die, because he still has to cause the Purge and all the other things we’ve seen Adult!Ben do.[/quote]
    *****************************************************
    Regarding your earlier quote from above “In this universe, time does course-correct. We’ve seen it happen before” My Q was.. if he doesn’t die now do you think he will eventually because of course correction[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Well, eventually, sure! Like all of us. :) But I think in this case, if WHH, then we know he doesn’t die at least until AFTER the time in which we see him alive in the future. JMO.[/quote]
    ************************************************

    Right, that’s what i meant…AFTER, eventually. Not from old age. I guess if he were to die though there would’ve been other instances where he almost did and was “saved”

  39. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326116"][quote comment="326111"]I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)[/quote]
    _________________________________-
    Heidi that reminds me: whatever happened to Desmond’s vision of Claire and Aaron boarding the chopper, that he told Charlie about? Was he lying, or is that yet to come? And if yet to come, could it be Aaron he saw – who would now be a child of at least 3 or 4years old? If Aaron is not YET on the island, I think he MUST still be coming. Remember, he’s “special”![/quote]
    ____

    I keep talking about that vision over and over. I wasn’t thinking about it when I said I thought Claire(or whoever it was) was holding a baby. Now it makes more sense to me:) Still, I don’t see why Charlie had to die but I guess it started the beginning of the end lol.

  40. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326118"]
    Ben claimed to Hurley the Purge wasn’t his decision.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    He’s a liar!! :)[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    He IS. But in that case I don’t think he was, but who knows. I am believing he told Hurley the truth on that matter.

  41. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326121"][quote comment="326118"]
    Ben claimed to Hurley the Purge wasn’t his decision.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    He’s a liar!! :)[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    He IS. But in that case I don’t think he was, but who knows. I am believing he told Hurley the truth on that matter.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Cool.

  42. jaime says:

    Damn, I totally just got an April Fools joke pulled on me at work and I fell for it. Someone came into my office and took my car keys and then moved it to the opposite side of the building. I almost started crying about my car being stolen so they let me in on it while everyone laughed….not cool. ha ha :) Its got me thinking. Do you think they might try to pull one on us during the episode tonight? Not sure what they would be able to do though. I’m going to keep my eyes open for something.

  43. Tasha says:

    Rumor has it that tonight’s episode will only have 10 minutes of commercial air time!!!! Yay! Limited commercials!

  44. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326124"]Rumor has it that tonight’s episode will only have 10 minutes of commercial air time!!!! Yay! Limited commercials![/quote]
    ________________________________
    April Fools, right? LOL! Sounds great though!!

  45. katesFriend says:

    [quote]
    Since the fb would actually be something that happened in the future, would we call them ffs instead? :)
    Since I have been thinking that all the TT to the past episodes should be seen as fb (if WHH), it really gets complicated – thinking in terms of a linear time line, events are either in the past, present, or future, but if you look at any ONE person’s individual time line, an event from the future may be in THEIR past. Anyway, just saying that the terms “flash forward” and “flash back” may now be moot.[/quote]

    Rita, you just made me think of something. So, I have always been a subscriber to the Social Construction of reality epistemology (as opposed to the Cartesian version of knowledge acquisition) and have always tried to put LOST into my thoughts.

    Your comment above about ff/fb being relative to each character really got me thinking. I haven’t fully developed this yet, but perhaps what we the viewer sees is different each week based on each character’s socially constructed reality.

    I know this sounds kind of off topic, but I think the final LOST explanation will depend on whether the producers/writers believe in an objective reality.

    Thoughts??

  46. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326114"]At this point I still interpret WHH as ‘things’ are supposed to happen. Not that they ALWAYS happened before….I think. :)[/quote]

    _______

    So what do you think is supposed to happen tonight? Maybe it works both ways. I read this moning that a guy wrote this novel or poem or something called , A Vision. His view is that reincarnation does not occur within a framework of linear time. Rather, all of a person’s past and future lives are happening at once, in an eternal now moment; and the decisions made in any of these lifetimes influence all of the other lives (and are influenced by them).

    I copied and paste that last little bit, hee hee. Point is, I wonder if it’s not just about time travel. The bigger question to me is WHY these people?

  47. Heidi says:

    [quote comment="326116"][quote comment="326111"]I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)[/quote]
    _________________________________-
    Heidi that reminds me: whatever happened to Desmond’s vision of Claire and Aaron boarding the chopper, that he told Charlie about? Was he lying, or is that yet to come? And if yet to come, could it be Aaron he saw – who would now be a child of at least 3 or 4years old? If Aaron is not YET on the island, I think he MUST still be coming. Remember, he’s “special”![/quote]

    I don’t remember Desmond having a vision about that? Hmmmm.. When was that? And I don’t recall Aaron being “special” just Walt. Not saying what you said isn’t true I just don’t recall any of it.

  48. Heidi says:

    Can you tell me about the vision Des had? Like I said I am totally lost (no pun intended) when it comes to that. And usually I recall things about this show

  49. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326128"][quote comment="326116"][quote comment="326111"]I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)[/quote]
    _________________________________-
    Heidi that reminds me: whatever happened to Desmond’s vision of Claire and Aaron boarding the chopper, that he told Charlie about? Was he lying, or is that yet to come? And if yet to come, could it be Aaron he saw – who would now be a child of at least 3 or 4years old? If Aaron is not YET on the island, I think he MUST still be coming. Remember, he’s “special”![/quote]

    I don’t remember Desmond having a vision about that? Hmmmm.. When was that? And I don’t recall Aaron being “special” just Walt. Not saying what you said isn’t true I just don’t recall any of it.[/quote]
    ____

    His vision is what made Charlie decide to commit suicide. LOL. ANyway he told Charlie in the episode Greatest Hits that he saw a vision of Claire and Aaron getting on a helicopter but the only way that would happen is if Charlie went and flipped a switch and died.

  50. Tasha says:

    Oh and I am not sure if that was the episode name but it is close to the end of season 3:)

  51. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326131"]Can you tell me about the vision Des had? Like I said I am totally lost (no pun intended) when it comes to that. And usually I recall things about this show[/quote]
    **************************************************

    When Des attempted to save Charlie all those times he told him that he had a vision about seeing Claire and Arron get on a helicopter. Now whether he did that as a ruse to get Charlie to sacrificed himself to save everyone (looking glass) else I’m not sure.

  52. jaime says:

    Heidi this is taken from Lostpedia (non cannon)

    Desmond has yet another ‘flash.’ In it, he saw Charlie inside a facility of some kind containing a yellow blinking light and a switch, followed by Charlie flipping the switch, turning the light off, and then drowning. This action, according to the flash, resulted in Claire and Aaron boarding a rescue helicopter. At first, Desmond hesitated to tell Charlie this, but later laid it out for him, explaining that Charlie must die if the group hopes to be rescued. (Greatest Hits)

  53. Heidi says:

    Hmmm. Thanks. Was there more on this? Or did he tell Charlie this and that was it? Did Charlie as questions?

    I really enjoyed Lost in the first 2 seasons because I felt it was believe-able. That is why I first starting watching it. But now, its so not. Although I am still addicted to it, I am rather disappointed. I know many friends and family that have stopped because it is getting so unrealistic and complicated. I wonder if I missed something about this, Des telling Charlie this when I was watching it as a hit and a miss when I had my daughter last year. Thanks again

  54. Jason says:

    Not really on topic with tonight’s episode, but I am trying to remember what Walt said to Locke when he met him outside his school. Did Walt mention that he had a dream about Locke on the island wearing a suit? And didn’t he mention something about the people around him on the island not liking him? I wonder if Walt still has a big part to play in all of this. The other were clearly afraid of him or at least very concerned when they were keeping him in room #23. I just think that somehow Walt fits back into the storyline somewhere.

  55. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326138"]Not really on topic with tonight’s episode, but I am trying to remember what Walt said to Locke when he met him outside his school. Did Walt mention that he had a dream about Locke on the island wearing a suit? And didn’t he mention something about the people around him on the island not liking him? I wonder if Walt still has a big part to play in all of this. The other were clearly afraid of him or at least very concerned when they were keeping him in room #23. I just think that somehow Walt fits back into the storyline somewhere.[/quote]
    ***************************************************
    You’re right, Walt told Locke that he had been having dreams about him. He had one of Locke where he was wearing a suit on the island and was surrounded by people who wanted to hurt him. For sure there is something special about Walt. How they are going to incorporate him back into the show though I’m not sure.

  56. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326136"]Heidi this is taken from Lostpedia (non cannon)

    Desmond has yet another ‘flash.’ In it, he saw Charlie inside a facility of some kind containing a yellow blinking light and a switch, followed by Charlie flipping the switch, turning the light off, and then drowning. This action, according to the flash, resulted in Claire and Aaron boarding a rescue helicopter. At first, Desmond hesitated to tell Charlie this, but later laid it out for him, explaining that Charlie must die if the group hopes to be rescued. (Greatest Hits)[/quote]

    Here is the transcript:

    CHARLIE: So, you ready to tell me what you saw this morning?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: Right. So how’s it happen this time?

    [Pause]

    CHARLIE: Come on, Des. You can tell me. I can take it.

    [Pause]

    DESMOND: What I saw, Charlie, was Claire and her baby getting into a helicopter. A helicopter that lifts off–leaves this Island.

    CHARLIE: Are you sure?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: A rescue helicopter on this beach?

    [Desmond nods]

    CHARLIE: This Island–that’s what you saw?

    [Desmond nods again]

    CHARLIE: We’re getting bloody rescued! I thought you were gonna tell me I was gonna die again!

    DESMOND: You are, Charlie.

    – – – – –

    Desmond did NOT specify Aaron – just “her baby.” When Claire didn’t get on the helicopter with the rest of the O6, Desmond’s “flash” being wrong didn’t bother me TOO much because he’d been wrong before.

    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P

  57. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326138"]Not really on topic with tonight’s episode, but I am trying to remember what Walt said to Locke when he met him outside his school. Did Walt mention that he had a dream about Locke on the island wearing a suit? And didn’t he mention something about the people around him on the island not liking him? I wonder if Walt still has a big part to play in all of this. The other were clearly afraid of him or at least very concerned when they were keeping him in room #23. I just think that somehow Walt fits back into the storyline somewhere.[/quote]

    ____
    Wow. Did I already read this? Um, YES I believe that is what Walt said and yes I hope he fits in the storyline somehow. Even if he isn’t what they were looking for, we will hopefully find out what the Others were doing with him. I hope.

  58. LINS says:

    [quote comment="326139"][quote comment="326136"]Heidi this is taken from Lostpedia (non cannon)

    Desmond has yet another ‘flash.’ In it, he saw Charlie inside a facility of some kind containing a yellow blinking light and a switch, followed by Charlie flipping the switch, turning the light off, and then drowning. This action, according to the flash, resulted in Claire and Aaron boarding a rescue helicopter. At first, Desmond hesitated to tell Charlie this, but later laid it out for him, explaining that Charlie must die if the group hopes to be rescued. (Greatest Hits)[/quote]

    Here is the transcript:

    CHARLIE: So, you ready to tell me what you saw this morning?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: Right. So how’s it happen this time?

    [Pause]

    CHARLIE: Come on, Des. You can tell me. I can take it.

    [Pause]

    DESMOND: What I saw, Charlie, was Claire and her baby getting into a helicopter. A helicopter that lifts off–leaves this Island.

    CHARLIE: Are you sure?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: A rescue helicopter on this beach?

    [Desmond nods]

    CHARLIE: This Island–that’s what you saw?

    [Desmond nods again]

    CHARLIE: We’re getting bloody rescued! I thought you were gonna tell me I was gonna die again!

    DESMOND: You are, Charlie.

    – – – – –

    Desmond did NOT specify Aaron – just “her baby.” When Claire didn’t get on the helicopter with the rest of the O6, Desmond’s “flash” being wrong didn’t bother me TOO much because he’d been wrong before.

    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P[/quote]

    ********************
    Or maybe Desmond’s flash is what happens the next time around…if things are moving in a loop, if the losties end up back on the island again in 2004 and are somehow rescued, maybe things change and Claire and Aaron really do get off the island? Maybe Des really did see Claire and a baby Aaron leaving?

  59. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326139"][quote comment="326136"]Heidi this is taken from Lostpedia (non cannon)

    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P[/quote]

    COuldn’t this fit into course correction? It was stressed they were never supposed to leave the island at that time. Also nobody was supposed to raise Aaron except Claire. If anything, I would think at the very end they will be back to before the O6 were rescued. Of course that would go against “you can’t change anything.” So confusing and so many possibilities LOL.

  60. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326139"][quote comment="326136"]
    Desmond did NOT specify Aaron – just “her baby.” When Claire didn’t get on the helicopter with the rest of the O6, Desmond’s “flash” being wrong didn’t bother me TOO much because he’d been wrong before.

    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Yes, exactly what I am thinking PJ. NOT Aaron – who is no longer a baby – but ANOTHER child. Since we are speculating that Kate may be pregnant, what poetic justice that it could be HER baby. Could be!

  61. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326138"]Not really on topic with tonight’s episode, but I am trying to remember what Walt said to Locke when he met him outside his school. Did Walt mention that he had a dream about Locke on the island wearing a suit? And didn’t he mention something about the people around him on the island not liking him? I wonder if Walt still has a big part to play in all of this. The other were clearly afraid of him or at least very concerned when they were keeping him in room #23. I just think that somehow Walt fits back into the storyline somewhere.[/quote]
    Deja vu. Is there an echo in here? Walt is obviously Special, that was the title of his first FB in Season 1. Regarding the convo, you can either find the episode thread on this blog under “ARCHIVES” at the top or try this link. It is filled with transcripts from the show.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

    IMO, the actor that plays Walt seemed to be lacking one major characteristic the last time we saw him, acting ability. I agree he has a part to play but I think his on-screen time will be very limited.

  62. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326165"]IMO, the actor that plays Walt seemed to be lacking one major characteristic the last time we saw him, acting ability. I agree he has a part to play but I think his on-screen time will be very limited.[/quote]

    Agreed. MDK was a CUTE kid and not much was required of him other than to just kind be a kid. To pull off what *Walt* would need to be might take more acting chops than MDK has at this point.

    [quote comment="326067"]Why is Kate standing like that in the promo pic? It looks very unnatural![/quote]

    I didn’t mind seeing Naveen Andrews at the top of the page last week, but I am among those who agree that seeing Evie Lilly is more appealing. I agree that she is standing unnaturally. Kind of looks like she’s got Ben’s baton stuck somewhere it ought not be. LOL.

    : ) P

  63. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326173"][quote comment="326165"]IMO, the actor that plays Walt seemed to be lacking one major characteristic the last time we saw him, acting ability. I agree he has a part to play but I think his on-screen time will be very limited.[/quote]

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Agreed, but I think that nevertheless, Walt will be a part of our story yet.

  64. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="326139"][quote comment="326136"]Heidi this is taken from Lostpedia (non cannon)

    Desmond has yet another ‘flash.’ In it, he saw Charlie inside a facility of some kind containing a yellow blinking light and a switch, followed by Charlie flipping the switch, turning the light off, and then drowning. This action, according to the flash, resulted in Claire and Aaron boarding a rescue helicopter. At first, Desmond hesitated to tell Charlie this, but later laid it out for him, explaining that Charlie must die if the group hopes to be rescued. (Greatest Hits)[/quote]

    Here is the transcript:

    CHARLIE: So, you ready to tell me what you saw this morning?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: Right. So how’s it happen this time?

    [Pause]

    CHARLIE: Come on, Des. You can tell me. I can take it.

    [Pause]

    DESMOND: What I saw, Charlie, was Claire and her baby getting into a helicopter. A helicopter that lifts off–leaves this Island.

    CHARLIE: Are you sure?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: A rescue helicopter on this beach?

    [Desmond nods]

    CHARLIE: This Island–that’s what you saw?

    [Desmond nods again]

    CHARLIE: We’re getting bloody rescued! I thought you were gonna tell me I was gonna die again!

    DESMOND: You are, Charlie.

    – – – – –

    Desmond did NOT specify Aaron – just “her baby.” When Claire didn’t get on the helicopter with the rest of the O6, Desmond’s “flash” being wrong didn’t bother me TOO much because he’d been wrong before.

    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Nice, PJ. Aaron is the baby: That’s in our comfort zone. We hear what want to hear.

    8) Jim

  65. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326128"][quote comment="326116"][quote comment="326111"]I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)[/quote]
    _________________________________-
    Heidi that reminds me: whatever happened to Desmond’s vision of Claire and Aaron boarding the chopper, that he told Charlie about? Was he lying, or is that yet to come? And if yet to come, could it be Aaron he saw – who would now be a child of at least 3 or 4years old? If Aaron is not YET on the island, I think he MUST still be coming. Remember, he’s “special”![/quote]

    I don’t remember Desmond having a vision about that? Hmmmm.. When was that? And I don’t recall Aaron being “special” just Walt. Not saying what you said isn’t true I just don’t recall any of it.[/quote]
    ______________________
    I think Desmond used this “vision” to convince Charlie to carry out the mission of the looking glass station. I do not believe that he actually had the vision that claire and aaron were leaving on a helicopter. The bigger question, to me anyway, pertains to Desmond’s visions. Has he, in fact, had more visions than the ones about Charlie’s death or was him obtaining that ability for the sole purpose of getting Charlie to complete his mission? I lean towards him not having any further visions but am wondering what others think.

  66. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326209"][quote comment="326128"][quote comment="326116"][quote comment="326111"]I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)[/quote]
    _________________________________-
    Heidi that reminds me: whatever happened to Desmond’s vision of Claire and Aaron boarding the chopper, that he told Charlie about? Was he lying, or is that yet to come? And if yet to come, could it be Aaron he saw – who would now be a child of at least 3 or 4years old? If Aaron is not YET on the island, I think he MUST still be coming. Remember, he’s “special”![/quote]

    I don’t remember Desmond having a vision about that? Hmmmm.. When was that? And I don’t recall Aaron being “special” just Walt. Not saying what you said isn’t true I just don’t recall any of it.[/quote]
    ______________________
    I think Desmond used this “vision” to convince Charlie to carry out the mission of the looking glass station. I do not believe that he actually had the vision that claire and aaron were leaving on a helicopter. The bigger question, to me anyway, pertains to Desmond’s visions. Has he, in fact, had more visions than the ones about Charlie’s death or was him obtaining that ability for the sole purpose of getting Charlie to complete his mission? I lean towards him not having any further visions but am wondering what others think.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Duke, I’m not so sure that Desmond was merely manipulating Charlie. He hasn’t shown that much guile to date. He was staight with him about everything else, so unless he had a vision specifically about him seeing Penny – which required Charlie’s sacrifice, then I don’t see it, AND if there was a vision about Penny, we didn’t see it.
    If he has had further visions, they haven’t shown us that either, but I am inclined to believe he has not.

  67. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326144"][quote comment=”326139
    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P[/quote]

    *****
    Hey I’m all for that being the last scene!!

    But seriosly guys….what time do need to leave this site? I was on last time hours before and people were already posting about that nights show…… AHHH Total Spoiler!!!

  68. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326209"]Has he, in fact, had more visions than the ones about Charlie’s death or was him obtaining that ability for the sole purpose of getting Charlie to complete his mission? I lean towards him not having any further visions but am wondering what others think.[/quote]

    We saw some of Desmond’s visions or flashes, but not all. I believe that not long after the fail-safe key/purple sky event, Desmond tells Hurley about something that Locke said in his speech, when Locke had not yet made that speech. Not sure it that would be considered one of his visions.

    In addition to that, there was also his vision of the parachutist – of which I think we saw a snippet. One vision we did NOT see was Claire with a baby in a helicopter. I wonder if that is significant.

    : ) P

  69. RGS says:

    [quote comment="326173"][quote comment="326165"]IMO, the actor that plays Walt seemed to be lacking one major characteristic the last time we saw him, acting ability. I agree he has a part to play but I think his on-screen time will be very limited.[/quote]

    Agreed. MDK was a CUTE kid and not much was required of him other than to just kind be a kid. To pull off what *Walt* would need to be might take more acting chops than MDK has at this point.

    [quote comment="326067"]Why is Kate standing like that in the promo pic? It looks very unnatural![/quote]

    I didn’t mind seeing Naveen Andrews at the top of the page last week, but I am among those who agree that seeing Evie Lilly is more appealing. I agree that she is standing unnaturally. Kind of looks like she’s got Ben’s baton stuck somewhere it ought not be. LOL.

    : ) P[/quote]
    LMAO! I did a spit-take on that!

  70. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326211"]But seriosly guys….what time do need to leave this site? I was on last time hours before and people were already posting about that nights show…… AHHH Total Spoiler!!![/quote]

    The first airing in the US begins in fifteen minutes, so if you want to stay spoiler free, you haven’t much longer! How long until you see it, adapa1?

    : ) P

  71. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326173"]

    [quote comment="326067"]Why is Kate standing like that in the promo pic? It looks very unnatural![/quote]

    I didn’t mind seeing Naveen Andrews at the top of the page last week, but I am among those who agree that seeing Evie Lilly is more appealing. I agree that she is standing unnaturally. Kind of looks like she’s got Ben’s baton stuck somewhere it ought not be. [/quote]
    She was a model before she got into acting. She looks like she is posing for the camera. Her acting resume isn’t really that long.

  72. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326127"][quote comment="326114"]At this point I still interpret WHH as ‘things’ are supposed to happen. Not that they ALWAYS happened before….I think. :)[/quote]

    _______

    So what do you think is supposed to happen tonight? Maybe it works both ways. I read this moning that a guy wrote this novel or poem or something called , A Vision. His view is that reincarnation does not occur within a framework of linear time. Rather, all of a person’s past and future lives are happening at once, in an eternal now moment; and the decisions made in any of these lifetimes influence all of the other lives (and are influenced by them).

    I copied and paste that last little bit, hee hee. Point is, I wonder if it’s not just about time travel. The bigger question to me is WHY these people?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    To be honest Tasha, I don’t know what to think. I do wonder if the ‘reincarnation’ van was just a hint that Locke was coming back to life, or if reincarnation is supposed to be part of the story in addition to TT.

  73. Tasha says:

    Oh wow I am ready. Just to waste the last couple of minutes here I thought I would type that I am watching the Green Mile right now and just realized that little punk A$$ Percy is Horace! It’s funny when I watch other movies and shows I notice people from LOST and my mind starts getting preoccupied. Which led me to post this. LOL

  74. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="326215"][quote comment="326173"]

    [quote comment="326067"]Why is Kate standing like that in the promo pic? It looks very unnatural![/quote]

    I didn’t mind seeing Naveen Andrews at the top of the page last week, but I am among those who agree that seeing Evie Lilly is more appealing. I agree that she is standing unnaturally. Kind of looks like she’s got Ben’s baton stuck somewhere it ought not be. [/quote]
    She was a model before she got into acting. She looks like she is posing for the camera.

    Her acting resume isn’t really that long.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    That entire series of photos can, at best, be dwescribed as totally irrelevant to the story. Poor Charlotte, she never did get a chance to put on that party dress!

    8) Jim

  75. Miss lost says:

    so jealous that so many of you get to watch LOST now…west coaster here…so not for three more hours…but most go dark as not to be tempted to read comments about what was just viewed…hope it is good…sure it will be!
    -miss

  76. adapa1 says:

    Thanks PJSander!!!!! It’s only 6pm over here!!!!! I’m out!!!

  77. Rita says:

    Well it’s good to know that Miles can’t explain WHH any better than we can!

  78. Tasha says:

    LOL. Waiting to disappear cause they don’t exist. That’s what I keep saying lol.

  79. Hammer says:

    I don’t know about you guys…but Miles didn’t help me. LOL

  80. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326224"]I don’t know about you guys…but Miles didn’t help me. LOL[/quote]

    ____

    Maybe Ben DOES remember!!!!

  81. Hammer says:

    I’m glad they are trying to explain it…but Miles? How the heck does he know?

  82. lost4ever says:

    Kudos to all those that said Sawyer whispered something about his daughter before jumping out of the chopper.

  83. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326226"][quote comment="326224"]I don’t know about you guys…but Miles didn’t help me. LOL[/quote]

    ____

    Maybe Ben DOES remember!!!![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    That’s exactly what I think…it’s one of the reasons he always has a plan.

  84. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326228"][quote comment="326226"][quote comment="326224"]I don’t know about you guys…but Miles didn’t help me. LOL[/quote]

    ____

    Maybe Ben DOES remember!!!![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    That’s exactly what I think…it’s one of the reasons he always has a plan.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Me too, I think he has ALWAYS remembered.

  85. Larla says:

    Can someone tell me what the lady who was holding Aaron’s hand walking out of the store said to Kate? My sound cut out during that part for some reason…! I started yelling at the TV and my husband started laughing at me because he says I am too obsessed :) LOL

  86. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326230"]Can someone tell me what the lady who was holding Aaron’s hand walking out of the store said to Kate? My sound cut out during that part for some reason…! I started yelling at the TV and my husband started laughing at me because he says I am too obsessed :) LOL[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.

  87. Hammer says:

    Funniest line….Miles….”Hey ask him questions on TT.” ROTFLOL.

  88. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326231"]
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.[/quote]
    I thought it was Claire’s Mom at first.

  89. Larla says:

    [quote comment="326231"][quote comment="326230"]Can someone tell me what the lady who was holding Aaron’s hand walking out of the store said to Kate? My sound cut out during that part for some reason…! I started yelling at the TV and my husband started laughing at me because he says I am too obsessed :) LOL[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.[/quote]

    **
    Thanks Rita!!

  90. Tasha says:

    FREAKING COMMERCIALS!! What happened to limited commercials tonight?? Oh that’s right. I made it up!

  91. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326233"][quote comment="326231"]
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.[/quote]
    I thought it was Claire’s Mom at first.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    Me too, thought for sure she was ‘stealing’ him.

  92. Hammer says:

    Kudos to those who thought Mrs. Littleton got Aaron.

  93. lost4ever says:

    I caught the Charles part, but who was the other person Richard doesn’t answer to, Ellie?

  94. Hammer says:

    Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now.

  95. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326238"]I caught the Charles part, but who was the other person Richard doesn’t answer to, Ellie?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I thought I heard “Nealy” or something like that.

  96. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326241"]Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now.[/quote]
    Sure is. But he might remember events that happen after Richard takes him into the temple, at least I think it was the temple.

  97. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326244"]
    Sure is. But he might remember events that happen after Richard takes him into the temple, at least I think it was the temple.[/quote]

    It did look like the temple, or at least the part that we saw when Smokey took Montand underneath. I believe D&C referred to it as a part of the temple, an outer wall or something like that.

    : ) P

  98. lost4ever says:

    So they go and save Ben’s life and the consequence is that he becomes the monster they know.

  99. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326241"]Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now.[/quote]

    __________

    I am not getting this at all. What exactly will he NOT remember? When he comes back around, won’t he still see Sawyer and them again? So he would still know who they are. Hmmm. I am confused. Someone please explain.

  100. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326244"][quote comment="326241"]Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now.[/quote]
    Sure is. But he might remember events that happen after Richard takes him into the temple, at least I think it was the temple.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Good point…I think it’s the Temple too. Temple = place of enlightenment.

  101. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326247"][quote comment="326241"]Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now.[/quote]

    __________

    I am not getting this at all. What exactly will he NOT remember? When he comes back around, won’t he still see Sawyer and them again? So he would still know who they are. Hmmm. I am confused. Someone please explain.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Well, he won’t remember being shot. The LOSTies will likely leave the 70’s before Ben ‘comes back’ to Dharmaville, therefore not remembering them because he will not have met them…again…after his ‘change’. IMO

  102. katesFriend says:

    [quote] Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now

    __________

    I am not getting this at all. What exactly will he NOT remember? When he comes back around, won’t he still see Sawyer and them again? So he would still know who they are. Hmmm. I am confused. Someone please explain.[/quote]

    If he really does forget all of this, then Juliet is not the “her” that Harper was referring to.

  103. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326249"][quote comment="326247"][quote comment="326241"]Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now.[/quote]

    __________

    I am not getting this at all. What exactly will he NOT remember? When he comes back around, won’t he still see Sawyer and them again? So he would still know who they are. Hmmm. I am confused. Someone please explain.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Well, he won’t remember being shot. The LOSTies will likely leave the 70’s before Ben ‘comes back’ to Dharmaville, therefore not remembering them because he will not have met them…again…after his ‘change’. IMO[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Not sure about that. Won’t they have to return to the barrack’s with Lil Ben? Or else how are they going to explain where he is if they return without him? Unless they don’t return.

  104. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326250"][quote] Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now

    __________

    I am not getting this at all. What exactly will he NOT remember? When he comes back around, won’t he still see Sawyer and them again? So he would still know who they are. Hmmm. I am confused. Someone please explain.[/quote]

    If he really does forget all of this, then Juliet is not the “her” that Harper was referring to.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    Good point.

  105. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326250"][quote] Okay, so Ben doesn’t remember the past. Which means my theory that Whisperers tell him what’s going on is how he always has a plan in still alive for now

    __________

    I am not getting this at all. What exactly will he NOT remember? When he comes back around, won’t he still see Sawyer and them again? So he would still know who they are. Hmmm. I am confused. Someone please explain.[/quote]

    If he really does forget all of this, then Juliet is not the “her” that Harper was referring to.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    Not sure about that. I think it’s kind of like Men in Black or the Hatian on HEROES. They take his memory, maybe just that incident or everything that preceded that incident. I think he will head back to Dharma with the LOSTies still and remember them but not Sayid. His list from Season 2 is coming together.

  106. Jim in Georgia says:

    “Duty Assignments(?):”

    High Priest(?): Richard Alpert
    Leaders: Charles Widmore and Eloise “Ellie” Hawking

    “I don’t answer to them.” – Richard

    The Temple isn’t all that close to DHARMAville; how did Richard get there so quickly? Not in terms of the episode period, but in terms of having a bleeding kid in his arms.

    8) Jim

  107. Rumblestilskin says:

    Yes, I heard Richard say Elli and Charles as well.

    I hope Horace dies B4 the purge. I cant stand his attitude, or face :)

    I also wonder if Terry Oquinn (Locke) is getting paid the same per episode as when he had more than 2-3 lines per week. I wish he had more. he’s getting 2 B as mysterious as Christian.

  108. Hammer says:

    Okay, all the new posters are silent again. So I am going to do my Bed Time For Bonzo post now and lurk for a while:

    I think that we just saw the entrance for the Temple and Temple is where one becomes enlightened and lose their innocence. The Temple is only for the enlightened ones (Ben said something about the Temple only being for ‘us’.)

    I think Ben losing his innocence is enlightenment and ‘knowing the meaning of life’ in a way. He now know the ‘rules’ of fate and destiny. He now knows he has to do certain things and when they will happen and just have to take it.

    And he always does just take it…until Keamy killed Alex…then he tried to break the rules. He turned the wheel when it wasn’t his turn, it was Locke’s turn. He changed Miles et al’s time line order. And I think he’s either killed Penny or has at least made an effort to which would be a rule breaker according to his conversation with Widmore.

  109. katesFriend says:

    About Richard’s comment re: Ben’s innocence –

    This kind of reminds me of various stories where someone sells their soul to the devil for something. Or how if a vampire bites you, you are then always a vampire.

    So the question is, what exactly is Ben giving up in exchange for his life? And why do Kate and Sawyer of all people get to make this decision for him? Or will Alpert somehow put Ben to a choice? hmmmm

  110. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326111"]I’m guessing she gave Aaron to Claire’s mom. And wants to save Bens life because he knows or she thinks he knows what happened or where Claire is on the Island. And perhaps she promised to get Claire and Aaron reunited again. I don’t think Aaron is on the island because back in some episode where Kate had a dream and she saw Claire standing over Aaron and she said “Don’t you bring him back Kate, don’t you ever bring him back to the island.” And I don’t think Kate would ever do anything intentionally to put Aaron in harms way (like the island)
    I wonder what Sawyer told her? Perhaps yes about his daughter. Some last errand he wanted her to do before he told her to stay with Jack because he knew ultimately she loves Jack. (One can hope right?)[/quote]
    Curiously accurate predictions

  111. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326234"][quote comment="326231"][quote comment="326230"]Can someone tell me what the lady who was holding Aaron’s hand walking out of the store said to Kate? My sound cut out during that part for some reason…! I started yelling at the TV and my husband started laughing at me because he says I am too obsessed :) LOL[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.[/quote]

    **
    Thanks Rita!![/quote]
    _______________________
    Rita is correct, but at the very end, before she walked away, her mouth moved but no words came out. The closed captioning said “(mouths word)”. I’ll have to go back to see if I can read her lips. I wonder if there is some significance to what she “mouthed”

  112. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326225"]I’m glad they are trying to explain it…but Miles? How the heck does he know?[/quote]
    I figured it’s based on what Faraday told him.

  113. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326250"]If he really does forget all of this, then Juliet is not the “her” that Harper was referring to.[/quote]

    Unless he only forgets things that happened BEFORE Alpert did “whatever” to him? Then he might remember Juliet, who clearly feels some kind of devotion to him at this point. The only nurturing woman in the poor kid’s life – he’s bound to feel something toward her. Perhaps that’s why he recruits her in 2001 – whether or not he knows it *is* her.

    : ) P

  114. Ben says:

    Of course Ben thinks he was born on the island. Alpert explains that. We know more about young Ben then old Ben does.
    The smoke monster is going to be a huge link here. Going to the temple will make Ben like Roussou’s friends.

  115. LINS says:

    Wow, a bit of a tear jerker tonight, at least the scenes with Kate and Aaron, I wonder if that is really why she came back, to find Claire?

    I liked Miles’ explanation to Hurley about TT, it did sound a bit like a lurker reading all our posts, made me laugh! It made sense, however, especially the part about how their timeline is different from little Ben’s, it’s his past but their present.

    I am hoping they explain what happens in regards to the Dharma-losties and the purge, and since Widmore and Hawking are still on the island, I hope we see why they left…maybe Alpert saving little Ben has something to do with that.

    I’ll have to watch it again, but IMO, it was a great episode!

  116. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326145"][quote comment="326139"][quote comment="326136"]Heidi this is taken from Lostpedia (non cannon)

    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P[/quote]

    COuldn’t this fit into course correction? It was stressed they were never supposed to leave the island at that time. Also nobody was supposed to raise Aaron except Claire. If anything, I would think at the very end they will be back to before the O6 were rescued. Of course that would go against “you can’t change anything.” So confusing and so many possibilities LOL.[/quote]
    ______________________
    I don’t think there will be a changing of any events. I think the “course correction” that occurred is that they went back to the island, correcting that they left, because they weren’t supposed to leave.

  117. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="326242"][quote comment="326238"]I caught the Charles part, but who was the other person Richard doesn’t answer to, Ellie?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I thought I heard “Nealy” or something like that.[/quote]

    I thought I heard “Healey” but Ellie makes more sense.

    So whatever Richard does to heal Ben will erase his memory of being shot, which was the one hole in Miles’ time travel theory.

    BTW, I was loving that conversation between Miles and Hurley. I kept on saying, “This is exactly what we’ve been talking about on the blogs!”

  118. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326254"]“Duty Assignments(?):”

    High Priest(?): Richard Alpert
    Leaders: Charles Widmore and Eloise “Ellie” Hawking

    “I don’t answer to them.” – Richard

    The Temple isn’t all that close to DHARMAville; how did Richard get there so quickly? Not in terms of the episode period, but in terms of having a bleeding kid in his arms.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    Leaders ( plural ), I like it. Although it is not confirmed, I thought so from what Ben told Hurley about the Purge.

    So if Ellie is on the island still in 1977, IMO, there are 2 options. Either she is not Faraday’s mother or Faraday was born on the island. I am leaning toward the latter because I think they pretty much told us that she was his mother.

  119. kindly says:

    So, little Ben freed Sayid so that Sayid could take him to the Others so that he could be with them. Sayid essentially did just that unknowingly didn’t he? (Whether that was the result he wanted or not.)

    I don’t really have anything else to add to that, just commenting really.

  120. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326255"]Yes, I heard Richard say Elli and Charles as well.

    I hope Horace dies B4 the purge. I cant stand his attitude, or face :)

    I also wonder if Terry Oquinn (Locke) is getting paid the same per episode as when he had more than 2-3 lines per week. I wish he had more. he’s getting 2 B as mysterious as Christian.[/quote]
    We saw Horace die in the Purge, so he won’t be dying before it. But I agree that he’s annoying.

    And I agree Locke is mysterious right now, which reminds me of how he was mysterious in season 1, which I really liked about that character. He became much less interesting in seasons 2 and 3, IMHO, but more interesting again last season as he became more mysterious.

  121. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326259"][quote comment="326234"][quote comment="326231"][quote comment="326230"]Can someone tell me what the lady who was holding Aaron’s hand walking out of the store said to Kate? My sound cut out during that part for some reason…! I started yelling at the TV and my husband started laughing at me because he says I am too obsessed :) LOL[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.[/quote]

    **
    Thanks Rita!![/quote]
    _______________________
    Rita is correct, but at the very end, before she walked away, her mouth moved but no words came out. The closed captioning said “(mouths word)”. I’ll have to go back to see if I can read her lips. I wonder if there is some significance to what she “mouthed”[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++==
    Looked to me like she mouthed…’sure'(after Kate thanked her)…then ? .

    The scene was odd and seemed to me like Ben set it up so that Kate would make the ultimate choice to get her butt on the plane.

  122. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326264"]
    I don’t think there will be a changing of any events. I think the “course correction” that occurred is that they went back to the island, correcting that they left, because they weren’t supposed to leave.[/quote]
    But they had to leave to travel back in time right? I am starting to agree with the theory, WHH. Now if that came from Faraday instead of Miles I would have been sold, because Miles seemed unsure of it.

  123. LostGrrl says:

    Hey – what’s with Ben having no eyebrows when he wakes up to find John hovering over him?

  124. Toeknee says:

    In the past few weeks people have been wondering, why exactly did they have to go back to the island? Last week we got the answer for Sayid (however ambiguous it was), and this week we got the answer for Kate. But this week we also got a set up for a future explanation for Jack’s reason to go back (“I haven’t figured it out yet”)

    I also thought it was interesting that they showed more evidence that Jack has become a man of faith. (even though Kate doesn’t like the new him, or the old him)

    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.

  125. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326270"][quote comment="326264"]
    I don’t think there will be a changing of any events. I think the “course correction” that occurred is that they went back to the island, correcting that they left, because they weren’t supposed to leave.[/quote]
    But they had to leave to travel back in time right? I am starting to agree with the theory, WHH. Now if that came from Faraday instead of Miles I would have been sold, because Miles seemed unsure of it.[/quote]
    ___________________
    Well, presumably, if the O6 didn’t leave the island, they would have experienced all the same flashes Sawyer, Juliet, etc experienced after Ben turned FDW, and the O6 would have wound up in 1974 along with Sawyer, Juliet, etc when Locke turned FDW. I think.

  126. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326270"]
    But they had to leave to travel back in time right? I am starting to agree with the theory, WHH. Now if that came from Faraday instead of Miles I would have been sold, because Miles seemed unsure of it.[/quote]

    I think that Miles DOESN’T really get it. I think that he’s regurgitating what Daniel told him. Plus, he probably picked up a few things from the db’s here and there! *g*

    : ) P

  127. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="326272"] When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]

    Why? I think it was a message to Kate that she can’t just breeze back into his life and start up where they left off. Not fair to Juliet. Or Sawyer.

    I thought this was a great ep for Kate. The goodbye scene with Aaron was heartbreaking. At first I thought she would leave him with Clementine’s mother, since they were friends and she knew everything anyway.

    But we still don’t know why Kate changed her mind, decided to give up the ruse, and try to go back and find Claire? What caused that decision?

  128. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326262"]Of course Ben thinks he was born on the island. Alpert explains that. We know more about young Ben then old Ben does.
    The smoke monster is going to be a huge link here. Going to the temple will make Ben like Roussou’s friends.[/quote]

    _________

    So minus one of Ben’s lies so far. LOL. (If that is how it plays out.)

  129. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326265"][quote comment="326242"][quote comment="326238"]I caught the Charles part, but who was the other person Richard doesn’t answer to, Ellie?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I thought I heard “Nealy” or something like that.[/quote]

    I thought I heard “Healey” but Ellie makes more sense.

    So whatever Richard does to heal Ben will erase his memory of being shot, which was the one hole in Miles’ time travel theory.

    BTW, I was loving that conversation between Miles and Hurley. I kept on saying, “This is exactly what we’ve been talking about on the blogs!”[/quote]
    ____

    And that little “huh” that both of them said at the end of the convo. That’s what I say out loud whenever someone throws a theory out there that is different than mine. I am like “huh. Didn’t think about that.” Then the wheels start turning again lol.

  130. ManchesterBloke says:

    [quote]Curiously accurate predictions[/quote]
    yeah… but not so hard when you read Doctor Jeff Jensens’ interview with E. Lillie from earlier this week.. doh!

  131. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326269"][quote comment="326259"][quote comment="326234"][quote comment="326231"][quote comment="326230"]Can someone tell me what the lady who was holding Aaron’s hand walking out of the store said to Kate? My sound cut out during that part for some reason…! I started yelling at the TV and my husband started laughing at me because he says I am too obsessed :) LOL[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.[/quote]

    **
    Thanks Rita!![/quote]

    The scene was odd and seemed to me like Ben set it up so that Kate would make the ultimate choice to get her butt on the plane.[/quote]

    _________

    No way he had time for that. He was too busy with Jack and Sun. It was fate.

  132. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326272"]
    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]
    Sawyer is Sawyer and I thought Cassidy explained that fairly well. He abandoned his child not once but twice, IMO.

  133. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326275"][quote comment="326272"] When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]

    Why? I think it was a message to Kate that she can’t just breeze back into his life and start up where they left off. Not fair to Juliet. Or Sawyer.
    [/quote]
    _______________________
    Well I agree that it’s wrong for Kate to try to do that. But I just thought the way Sawyer threw it out there, “I’m doing it for her” was a little harsh, given how obvious it is the Kate’s a bit jealous of the situation. He could have broken it to her more gently. But then again, this is Sawyer we’re talking about.

  134. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326272"]
    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]
    Sawyer is Sawyer and I thought Cassidy explained that fairly well. He abandoned his child not once but twice, IMO.[quote comment="326273"][quote comment="326270"][quote comment="326264"]
    I don’t think there will be a changing of any events. I think the “course correction” that occurred is that they went back to the island, correcting that they left, because they weren’t supposed to leave.[/quote]
    But they had to leave to travel back in time right? I am starting to agree with the theory, WHH. Now if that came from Faraday instead of Miles I would have been sold, because Miles seemed unsure of it.[/quote]
    ___________________
    Well, presumably, if the O6 didn’t leave the island, they would have experienced all the same flashes Sawyer, Juliet, etc experienced after Ben turned FDW, and the O6 would have wound up in 1974 along with Sawyer, Juliet, etc when Locke turned FDW. I think.[/quote]

    ++++++++++
    Good point. So 316 is a course-correction? For them to return to the place they were never supposed to leave.

  135. Roadtrip says:

    I have a question similar to Lost4ever’s last one. Other than the assertions from Ben and Locke, do we know why the O6 were not supposed to leave the island in the first place? One of the things I’m having the most trouble with is the premise that they have to go back to do (fill in the blank) because they were never supposed to leave. Well what was so wrong with them leaving? Why would that throw the timeline off if it was done in “present” time? Apologies if this is canon-esque at this point and I’ve just missed it — i’m new to the site. :)

  136. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326279"][quote comment="326269"][quote comment="326259"][quote comment="326234"][quote comment="326231"][quote comment="326230"]Can someone tell me what the lady who was holding Aaron’s hand walking out of the store said to Kate? My sound cut out during that part for some reason…! I started yelling at the TV and my husband started laughing at me because he says I am too obsessed :) LOL[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Just that she found him LOST and was about to make an announcement – I think her significance was that she looked, hair and build, like Claire.[/quote]

    **
    Thanks Rita!![/quote]

    The scene was odd and seemed to me like Ben set it up so that Kate would make the ultimate choice to get her butt on the plane.[/quote]

    _________

    No way he had time for that. He was too busy with Jack and Sun. It was fate.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Your prob. right Tasha, but my idead is more fun. LOL.

    Wait, Jack and Sun had already been taken to the Lamp Post. Kate took Aaron to Littleton after she took off from the docks. She gave Aaron away, went to jump in the sack with Jack then they met at the airport…no?

  137. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326283"]I have a question similar to Lost4ever’s last one. Other than the assertions from Ben and Locke, do we know why the O6 were not supposed to leave the island in the first place? One of the things I’m having the most trouble with is the premise that they have to go back to do (fill in the blank) because they were never supposed to leave. Well what was so wrong with them leaving? Why would that throw the timeline off if it was done in “present” time? Apologies if this is canon-esque at this point and I’ve just missed it — i’m new to the site. :)[/quote]
    No need to apologize – this hasn’t been answered yet. Hopefully it will be answered this season, and hopefully there will be a good explanation to it all.

  138. dukes909 says:

    Think it was a great episode. Finally see Kate in fine form, and her motivation. Actually teared up myself when she was leaving Aaron. But,..now what’s left for her? Not Jack, not Sawyer, not Aaron..?

  139. Hammer says:

    Theory check please…

    Danielle didn’t seem to remember Jin. Possible that she ended up in the Temple mind eraser? It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others. She always seemed to know when to avoid trouble (enlightened?) until the rule breakers (Team Keamy) killed her and Alex.

    Maybe we will see how it is that Ben gets Alex. Maybe she ends up in the Temple and she gets a deal that allows her to live, but in ‘exile’. Maybe for killing her group…give up the kid and we’ll let you live…and stay the hell away from us.

  140. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326275"]

    But we still don’t know why Kate changed her mind, decided to give up the ruse, and try to go back and find Claire? What caused that decision?[/quote]
    I thought she explained that to Cassidy. I am not sure if I believe she was going back to find Claire. She may now be on that path because Sawyer just set her straight ( sorry Skater’s ), but I think she was going back for Sawyer, originally. I think she just told Grandma Claire that she was going back for Claire to justify leaving Aaron with her.
    “Hey I’m leaving this kid with you that I lied to the world about to go find your daughter” sounds better than “Hey I’m leaving this kid with you to chase the man I THINK I am in love with”.

  141. RGS says:

    Kate off island…when was all that taking place? I mean I figure the Clementine scene was shortly after they got back because Aaron was still a baby, but it seemed like she visited Claire’s mom during the day? Gotta rewatch that…timing seems off.

    Anyway, I think they were supposed to leave, in order to come back and have the effect that they’ve had and will have in Dharam. None of them knew that they would have this effect, but it is what has always happened.

    To me, we are watching how this whole series plays out in a disjointed fashion, which is great for entertainment but we will ultimately not witness any “game changing” events, rather, “oh, that’s why he/she does this or that.”

    So I’m now thinking Widmore wanted to exploit the island, and that’s why he got banned, which unfortunately is a blow to Team Widmore. Probably, neither Ben or Widmore is on the “right” side, bcuz Ben got corrupted with his power as well. I’m still holding out hope for Widmore though.

  142. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326285"]Wait, Jack and Sun had already been taken to the Lamp Post. Kate took Aaron to Littleton after she took off from the docks. She gave Aaron away, went to jump in the sack with Jack then they met at the airport…no?[/quote]

    Not sure about the timing.

    It seemed to me that Kate stopped at the grocery store on the way ‘home’ from the docks. This should have been the same time that Sun, Jack, Desmond and Ben arrived at the church and first went in to see Mrs. Hawking.

    But she goes to see Cassidy during the DAYTIME, so it had to be the next day and then later she checks into the same motel as Carole and drops Aaron off.

    Btw, it does NOT sit well with me that she left Aaron sleeping alone in the motel room, even if it was two doors down. After nearly losing him at the grocery store, she wouldn’t have wanted to let him out of her sight – especially if she knew she was “giving him away” shortly. I realize it was probably a kid-actor-time-limit thing, but that kind of thing really BUGS me!

    : ) P

  143. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326280"][quote comment="326272"]
    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]
    Sawyer is Sawyer and I thought Cassidy explained that fairly well. He abandoned his child not once but twice, IMO.[/quote]
    ______

    Whenhe said her, I thought he was talking about his daughter. Didn’t someone say that the viewer’s may have their own interpretations sometimes? LOL. I feel dumb!

  144. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326280"][quote comment="326272"]
    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]
    Sawyer is Sawyer and I thought Cassidy explained that fairly well. He abandoned his child not once but twice, IMO.[/quote]
    ______

    When he said her, I thought he was talking about his daughter. Didn’t someone say that the viewer’s may have their own interpretations sometimes? LOL. I feel dumb!

  145. kindly says:

    Haha, Tasha that was my initial thought as well.

  146. Zarggg says:

    [quote comment="326274"]I think that Miles DOESN’T really get it. I think that he’s regurgitating what Daniel told him. Plus, he probably picked up a few things from the db’s here and there! *g*[/quote]
    That’s my thought as well. Miles doesn’t have the whole story. Only Faraday does (at least, according to my theory, which probably isn’t right :P).

  147. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326290"][quote comment="326285"]Wait, Jack and Sun had already been taken to the Lamp Post. Kate took Aaron to Littleton after she took off from the docks. She gave Aaron away, went to jump in the sack with Jack then they met at the airport…no?[/quote]

    Not sure about the timing.

    It seemed to me that Kate stopped at the grocery store on the way ‘home’ from the docks. This should have been the same time that Sun, Jack, Desmond and Ben arrived at the church and first went in to see Mrs. Hawking.

    But she goes to see Cassidy during the DAYTIME, so it had to be the next day and then later she checks into the same motel as Carole and drops Aaron off.

    Btw, it does NOT sit well with me that she left Aaron sleeping alone in the motel room, even if it was two doors down. After nearly losing him at the grocery store, she wouldn’t have wanted to let him out of her sight – especially if she knew she was “giving him away” shortly. I realize it was probably a kid-actor-time-limit thing, but that kind of thing really BUGS me!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Conceded. :)

  148. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326290"][quote comment="326285"]

    Btw, it does NOT sit well with me that she left Aaron sleeping alone in the motel room, even if it was two doors down. After nearly losing him at the grocery store, she wouldn’t have wanted to let him out of her sight – especially if she knew she was “giving him away” shortly. I realize it was probably a kid-actor-time-limit thing, but that kind of thing really BUGS me!

    : ) P[/quote]
    _____

    Um, I was thinking it was stupid at that point. Who leaves a little boy in a hotel room? What if grandma isn’t ready yet? They could have let grandma walk in after Kate left so we know for sure that he is safe. Now I am worried for Aaron:(

  149. slugdoc says:

    Off topic, perhaps, but –

    After the purge, why does Dharma headquarters keep sending food? Do they not know the purge happened?

    Are we to believe that the food shipments were so completely automated that they would just continue forever and ever? Unlikely.

    Whoever is sending the food, has to have a pendulum thingy, since the island is always moving.

    Anyway. I can put it all in the suspension of reality category, but I haven’t.

  150. Zarggg says:

    (I meant to respond to this as well; sorry about the double-post.)
    [quote comment="326291"]Anyway, I think they were supposed to leave, in order to come back and have the effect that they’ve had and will have in Dharam. None of them knew that they would have this effect, but it is what has always happened.[/quote]
    Correct. I originally thought this group going back to 1977 was course-correction, but then I remembered the Photograph showing the gang in the 1977 DHARMA photo.

    [quote comment="326291"]To me, we are watching how this whole series plays out in a disjointed fashion, which is great for entertainment but we will ultimately not witness any “game changing” events, rather, “oh, that’s why he/she does this or that.[/quote]
    It’s actually been quite easy for me to keep the flash-backs/-forwards straight; I just look at the show as having four time periods: 2004, 2007, “Timef***kery” ;), and now 1977.

  151. adapa1 says:

    watching now>>>>>

    I fucking HATE this episode!!!! and am happy to explain why in about ten minutes

  152. Passenger 8 says:

    [quote comment="326292"][quote comment="326280"][quote comment="326272"]
    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]
    Sawyer is Sawyer and I thought Cassidy explained that fairly well. He abandoned his child not once but twice, IMO.[/quote]
    ______

    When he said her, I thought he was talking about his daughter. Didn’t someone say that the viewer’s may have their own interpretations sometimes? LOL. I feel dumb![/quote]

    _______

    I think the purpose was to use the same line Jack used when he told Kate “I did it for you” when she asked hime why he saved “older” Ben. This would keep the love quadrilateral going. Something I hope they do not spend too much time on.

  153. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326291"]
    To me, we are watching how this whole series plays out in a disjointed fashion, which is great for entertainment but we will ultimately not witness any “game changing” events, rather, “oh, that’s why he/she does this or that.”
    [/quote]
    Right. That’s why, even though the episode was called WHH, and Miles and Hurley finally added some humor to the season with their dialogue, I am still not sure if EVERYTHING always happened. I mean if it did always happen I think it would make the show unLOSTlike, like you said.

  154. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326293"][quote comment="326280"][quote comment="326272"]
    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]
    Sawyer is Sawyer and I thought Cassidy explained that fairly well. He abandoned his child not once but twice, IMO.[/quote]
    ______

    Whenhe said her, I thought he was talking about his daughter. Didn’t someone say that the viewer’s may have their own interpretations sometimes? LOL. I feel dumb![/quote]
    ++++++++
    I was referring to the scene between Cassidy and Kate in the beginning.

  155. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326300"]watching now>>>>>

    I f…… HATE this episode!!!!

    and am happy to explain why in about ten minutes[/quote]
    Can you do it without the vulgarity? :)

  156. Passenger 8 says:

    Miles stated if they were to die in the past it wouldn’t matter and they would still be alive in the future. However, if you were to die in the present you would then be dead for good. Wouldn’t this contradict Locke now being alive? He died in present time and came back to life. Help??

  157. Vaughn K says:

    First of all, I just want to say that Miles is hilarious and he needs more air time and the look on Ben’s face when he saw Locke sitting their alive was priceless.

    On to business; I think what Miles explained is pretty much where the writers are going with time travel but he just doesnt know everything about it, only Faraday does. The WHH theory makes perfect sense to me but is still hard to explain; the only way i can is that they are expieriencing this for the first time but every choice they make they have always made because that is what always happened.

    Also, I thought it was cool to see Richard take charge and basically say screw the leaders they do not control me…which is always true really because Ben never really had control of him which makes him more of a mystery.

    P.S. Great epidsode and next week is going to be even better!

  158. adapa1 says:

    ok…
    #1. You classy bloggers are being far too kind about this………. This episode sucked and you all know it!! in fact….it was sooooo Bad I had a hard time paying attention because was trying to ignore my disgust and nausea long enough to make through the episode without posting on here lol!! I mean where else can I vent and assume all hte listeners are(at the bare minimun)just as smart as me…. Shit we lost all of the mentally challenged fans at the seasons premier!! ;-) Yet…I know from reading your posts that your patience as a collectitive. Is tronger than my own

  159. Vaughn K says:

    why do u think it sucked so bad

  160. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326310"]ok…
    #1.

    You classy bloggers are being far too kind about this……….

    This episode sucked and you all know it!!

    in fact….it was sooooo Bad I had a hard time paying attention because was trying to ignore my disgust and nausea long enough to make through the episode without posting on here lol!!

    I mean where else can I vent and assume all hte listeners are(at the bare minimun)just as smart as me…. Shit we lost all of the mentally challenged fans at the seasons premier!! ;-)

    Yet…I know from reading your posts that your patience as a collectitive. Is tronger than my own[/quote]
    ____

    I actually loved the episode, minus the commercials. What exactly are you upset about?

  161. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326306"]Miles stated if they were to die in the past it wouldn’t matter and they would still be alive in the future. However, if you were to die in the present you would then be dead for good. Wouldn’t this contradict Locke now being alive? He died in present time and came back to life. Help??[/quote]
    He was very confusing…we need Faraday.:) I think he meant if they died in 1977, which is THE past but also THEIR present. It would not affect them in the future growing up off the island.
    Let’s look at Miles. He has one timeline. The OLDEST point in his life is when we saw him today, in 1977 on the island, which is also his present living in the past. Now I’m confused again.:)

  162. Detective Skywalker says:

    excellent episode

    I can’t believe this is Kate’s first real acting role so good in the Aaron scenes.

    Does anybody else think that Richard and Sawyer have some sort of deal going on between them. I mean Sawyer did not hesitate in taking ben to him etc…

  163. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326315"][quote comment="326306"]Miles stated if they were to die in the past it wouldn’t matter and they would still be alive in the future. However, if you were to die in the present you would then be dead for good. Wouldn’t this contradict Locke now being alive? He died in present time and came back to life. Help??[/quote]
    He was very confusing…we need Faraday.:) I think he meant if they died in 1977, which is THE past but also THEIR present. It would not affect them in the future growing up off the island.
    Let’s look at Miles. He has one timeline. The OLDEST point in his life is when we saw him today, in 1977 on the island, which is also his present living in the past. Now I’m confused again.:)[/quote]

    ________

    Right! You see my issues now? I know what I want to say and while I am trying to type I forget what it is I am thinking or something. Doesn’t it seem like time is going backwards for some and forward for others? LOL

  164. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326316"]excellent episode

    I can’t believe this is Kate’s first real acting role so good in the Aaron scenes.

    Does anybody else think that Richard and Sawyer have some sort of deal going on between them. I mean Sawyer did not hesitate in taking ben to him etc…[/quote]

    __________

    Well RIchard knows Sawyer knows the ULMIGHTY LEADER….John Locke!

  165. Tasha says:

    ALMIGHTY!

  166. Passenger 8 says:

    [quote comment="326315"][quote comment="326306"]Miles stated if they were to die in the past it wouldn’t matter and they would still be alive in the future. However, if you were to die in the present you would then be dead for good. Wouldn’t this contradict Locke now being alive? He died in present time and came back to life. Help??[/quote]
    He was very confusing…we need Faraday.:) I think he meant if they died in 1977, which is THE past but also THEIR present. It would not affect them in the future growing up off the island.
    Let’s look at Miles. He has one timeline. The OLDEST point in his life is when we saw him today, in 1977 on the island, which is also his present living in the past. Now I’m confused again.:)[/quote]
    _______
    At first I thought the Miles attempted explaination was to help the viewers understand TT. Now I am starting to believe the writers are having some fun and tyring to confuse us even more.

  167. adapa1 says:

    (Lost4ever, please excuse my curse words, I know the stigma. But I’m actually a writer and nothing has the power of a four letter words. So i respectfully apoligise to you and everyone who cares. I curse to my mom and my boss…just in an enthusiastic and respectable way. Like ” I just fucking LOVE reading you posts Lost4ever!!!)

    ……partly because you have the patience to still care about Grammer and spelling and other skills that waste our time just as much as this crap episode.

    what ever happened happened because Writers fucked up and let it!!

    I call FILLER!!!!
    almost as bad as the double death by spider poison we all want to pretend never happened. ;-)

    #2 I just don’t care about Kate at all anymore. Actually I couldn’t care less about aaron and jack either. Why when I still have the incident,jacob, john, and the series finale to think about so I can tell you all ‘i told you so’ and then take your money you shouldn’t have bet.

    #3. All this filler did was make Future episodes extremly predictable now.

  168. JPG says:

    Why didn’t Kate and Sawyer take Ben and head back to the Dharmas when Alpert said all he did–ie…Ben is going to become THE Ben they all know after we heal him. They didn’t even take any time to think about it. Hmmm, let’s see..lose his innocence, always be one of us….

  169. adapa1 says:

    oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”

  170. poopy pants says:

    - Can someone tell me how many more episodes left in this season,thx.

    – last 2 episodes were more filler than substance IMO.

    – “Ellie” when young is the cute blonde chick with alpert during the “jughead” episode and obviously has a romance with young widmore to produce dan faraday on island,thoughts?

  171. slugdoc says:

    TT is very simple. Miles was clear.

    It is relative. Everyone is traveling within his/her own internal time frame of reference. Within that frame YOU only move in one direction – forward.
    Despite this your forward-moving travel can go to different places with the time-space continuum, but you still travel forward. (Even as you move to places perhaps earlier in time.

    The simple way to think of it is: You travel on a one dimensional path (a line) that is allowed to curve all over a two-dimensional time space (a plane — not that kind of plane).

    So you can do what WE do all the time, which is just go straight, or your path can curve around on that flat plane, and take you to other times, but in your internal reference, your own time (your watch) will continue to move forward.

    So, you CAN die, wherever you are because that is the NOW, CURRENT you — your future hasn’t happened yet, so no paradox for you dying. Your death in 1977 happens AFTER your getting on an airplane in 2008 (as far as you frame of reference is concerned). The 1977 people you meet CAN’T die (if they are still alive later) because the 1977 them is relativistically earlier.
    This is all very clear to me, but I think I lack the vocabulary to say it simpler. A blackboard would help.

    I can go on and on but I feel like I am going in circles, and nobody reads my posts anyway. (extrapolating from my n of 2)

  172. crumbly says:

    slug dog
    I think the others kept dropping the food for desmond bcuz they knew that button needed to be pushed by someone and they didn’t want to do it themselves

  173. Shadow says:

    I too am confused about why Jack and company had to come back to the island? I thought that the bad thing that happened upon the O6 leaving was all the time flashes. I thought that John was supposed to leave and bring them back in order to fix everything (I thought that to mean that it would stop the time flashes). Sawyer told his group that they would wait for the O6 to come back for as long as it took. Jin has been combing the island for the past three years looking for them to show up, and when they do return, it seems to be for nothing. Juliet tells Jack tonight that they didn’t need to be saved. Sawyer acts like they are all a nuisance and getting in the way of the good life he has built himself with Dharma. It just doesn’t make sense to me. What was all that stuff about “we were never supposed to leave”? “We have to go back”? Why was Sawyer willing to wait for as long as it took for them to come back, when he seems to not care now that they’re back? What has the return of the O6 fixed? Please, can someone help me?

  174. poopy pants says:

    exactly shawdow.exactly.
    its like the “where did jack get his tatoo” angle,a massive waste of time.Like the Brazilian diamond thieves,its what you do when u jumped the shark long ago when the show had no fixed end date,filler.

  175. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326314"][quote comment="326310"]
    ____

    I actually loved the episode, minus the commercials. What exactly are you upset about?[/quote]

    *****
    Detective Skywalker… You have the best damn handle EVER!! You obviously rock!!
    Hey at least Lucas hides his minimal filler by surrounding it with Special Effects and Buddhist doctrine. unfortunatley Lost isn’t from lucas and gives us pure uncut filler whenever we aren’t supposed to notice the lack of logical explantions we have for ANY of these characters to Want to save The omen child. But to have kate and sawyer be the ones!!!???? Some one please explain to me how thats a good idea.

    Here’s why its not..I’m upset by the filler we saw all around the Omen kid. I SSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO mad they chose to employ the use of Kate, AND sawyer as means to save his life. The only thing worse (or just as backward)would have been Sayid tryin to save him and sawyer shooting him.

    I mad the theory posted earlier about Kate having to save Ben to find Aaron wasn’t the case…I didn’t even think it so pertinent til now.

    Honestly guys…. as I Gradually get a little calmer, the true source of my disenchantment is very clear. IMO, this episode makes a strong case for the high probability of them fucking up this show up in the end, and I just can’t accept that.

    “IMO this episode was completely laced with blatant fingers pointing to the ‘purgatory theory” which I always hated and have only my special finger as a response for that.” I also think that they’ve gone too far now for purgatory not to be the case”

    The hieroglyphs translating to UNDERWORLD prove to be a statement of the obvious now when I had my hopes SSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOO High. Don’t get me wrong….they can’t screw up enough for me not finish off the show.
    Does anyone remember Steven Kings ‘the stand’??
    Ironically that show came up monday in my Clive Barker vs Steven King. Steven is a better writer. In fact he’s so good we over look the fact that he consistently has the shittiest story endings possible(sorry ‘crappiest’ was enough for me Lost4ever)
    The Stand…….americans were all captivated by this amazing story. LIke lost it was watched and enjoyed by many. Yet only LOVED enough to be understood by the smartest fans.

    And what happened on the end of THe Stand? I’ve never even met one person who can remember because it was THE worst ending of all time. No biggie right? I’ve just boycotted everything steven king after that.

    LOST is the best….and most importantly the smartest show of all time. But I think the worst thing DC ever did was sign the contract telling us all exactly when the show is gonna end. which gives us filler and commercials………or crazy action/less commercials because they ran out of time to tell the story. DC says it the contract was good for them.

    The edge it took from them I now know. and have to talk like yoda to make me feel better about. It’s just not fair to steal all the Star trek Fans from around the world, historically proven to be the most relentless fans of all time…who at the start of LOST still had a big whole in their tv hearts from watching Picard turn into Shatner because laziness,contenment, and money kill the best characters, the best movies, and anything else on TV that actually makes you smarter.

    the purgatory ending is like trading Joe Montana to the Raiders LOL!!! a perfect example for the reasoning of my suffering.

    This show is just TOO good to go out all wishy washy like that. I remember HATING this show until John found the hatch the first season! Then I’ve been too addicted to accept anything below par. Purgatory is a cop out….. an easy way to end a show that should have been
    impossible to even fathom, but became a reality when the checks got written.

    Abrams was better off wondering if he would still even have a LOST the following year. When He could afford to screw it up because nobody cared yet. Now….this show is all us geeks have to count on.

    But….. i’ve had my say. … Which i know was a lot, so i’ll be nice and promise to remain silent if we are ever again cursed with more filler.
    ** I refuse to be a ‘told you so guy’ specifically when it pertains to me trying to explain how they fucked up the best damn show we ever saw all because they wanted to give Ben another chance”

    Sawyer should have but a second bullet in him while kate watched….

  176. LostJunkie says:

    Hammer, Re: Post 139, has an outstanding point. Rousseau should remember Jin and she probably doesn’t because her mind’s been wiped out in the same way that Alpert describes is about to happen to Ben. I like that theory.

    Re: Detective Skywalker’s post (#162), remember when Sawyer first gets to Dharmaville and Alpert shows up because the Truce was violated (when Amy’s husband died)? Sawyer goes out and talks to him and calms the situation down–they pretty much reached an understanding.

    Re: Poopy Pants in Post #170, I think Ellie is Widmore’s sister rather than lover, and I say that because when we saw them in “Jughead”, he treats her the way an older sibling would, as opposed to a love interest. Although I suppose it’s possible he could’ve just treated her like that to hide feelings for her, you know, like teenagers that can’t face their feelings and instead actually spew insults rather than words of affection. But I’m going for the siblings theory.

  177. adapa1 says:

    I think albert will heal ben by using the TT device in the temple. His warning about The omen kid never being the same I think is the evidence of that. But I have a feeling we won’t see exactly how ben is saved in the temple til the season finale(they might flash that with the incident), or next season. even though I feel the show’s theme is now cleary related to purgatory ( meaning free will, sins, judgement, right and wrong, and the cell one is forced to discover the parameters and reason for being in.

    Last week I had a new theory on john having jacobs consciousness….that was sent to the future either by will or accident. I now think that theory does have real merit by alpert words tonight. OH! and after the dropped the book famous about experinments with consciousnes makes it even more probable. I ‘m pretty sure all of the other books where gathered around the same slaughterhouse theme, and this last book just doesn’t fit in. I mean lets not forget that Richard Alpert (the real Person) is the most import figure in american culture about LSD. More importanly He wrote the greatest book to ever pick up if you Were having a mind altering experience at that very time…the book was litterally made for you…and for that. No coicidence is the nod to him by the character who doesn’t age with he same name. Shit he was Timothy leary’s best friend…. and in no way as popular.

    Apert takes him to the temple and uses the tt device to ‘unstick’ the omen kids conscouness form time and body, and stick it into another?
    adult ben possibly? That would make my fellow lost fanatics clone theory true ( she’s been mumbling this forever) This explains why Ben is like jesus and has a blank life story until he’s an adult. maybe when unsticking the mind you see a glimspe of the future(sense your out of time) Ben sees the end game result of the numbers and is never the same afterwards. He becomes the asshole we’ve come to hate by trying to stop it. A collective effort by ben,alpert,eloise,widmore to change the future. eloise and widmore school faraday as a phycist to help…but have a disagreement on what should be done, or what can be done to change the timeline/endgame.

    Anyone ever heard of Remote Viewing? It was basically an astral traveling program our shady governmant funded at Stanford in the 70’s. Teaching student to control their consciousnes enough to leave the body, retrieve information, and be able to retain that info on reintering the body. If the writers know about the philadephia experiment(surely they do), and the dahli lama reincarnation test, enough to use as well as they have; i don’t think using remote viewing for a method of TT is so crazy.
    It happend to desmond more than once

  178. adapa1 says:

    Poopy Pant, Shadow, and lostjunkie:

    I couldn’t agree more!!!!
    and I was lucky enough to have forgotten about that retarded waste of time/filler we watched explaining his tatto. I guess i count three 100% pure filler episodes now. i can only come up with the dual death by spider poison, and this ‘please pay attention to kate again crap’

    It’s bad enough love googles are so blurred i choose to over look the fucking extra survivors they always use when they need a scene to waste our time but can’t can’t give that csi dialogue to a character we actually give a shit about. which is THE main point all the lost ex-fans share. Remember? that’s when Heroes first started and they all defected to that show. i feel I was attracted to this show in a fatal way. It’s like i see the filler…and i know the probable ending well. But i’ll still watch it…we all will. Tv always recycle the good stuff to use to hide all the crappy ones. and Lost Is the king of reclycling ALL of the best ideas. When the sex is that good ladies and gentlemen, I can’t help but think of Basic Instinct and how I’ll get stabbed in the end

  179. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326323"]oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”[/quote]

    whomever chose to use my name for this quote is an asshole, but a funny one. hahahahaha

    i get it…and you can poke fun at me all you want. But using my handle to as point the finger at me WHILE throwing stones at GMTa Leah is just wrong in any timeline. ANd EXTREMELY disrespectfull. We don’t need anymore drama on this site. So PLEASE!!! Continue to your shit talking to me always…I can take it! I like a challege/lets keep it fair though.

  180. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326298"]Off topic, perhaps, but –

    After the purge, why does Dharma headquarters keep sending food? Do they not know the purge happened?

    Are we to believe that the food shipments were so completely automated that they would just continue forever and ever? Unlikely.

    Whoever is sending the food, has to have a pendulum thingy, since the island is always moving.

    Anyway. I can put it all in the suspension of reality category, but I haven’t.[/quote]
    ******

    maybe the dharma food drops actually stopped but didn’t seem that way becaus of the button and the 108 second time loop controlling it at that time? I mean it sounds good.

    and again I’d like to bow and give every one on here an apology for my crappy spelling(ADHD will do that) and vulgar language. the thought of us using this site next year to explain how lame we all feel wasting ALL these
    hours for a show that took advantage of intelligence level and inner geekdom. I had my own flash tonight and didn’t like what i saw. It was a giant spider!!!!! the same fromthe movie ‘IT’ !!!! lol

  181. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326270"][quote comment="326264"]
    I don’t think there will be a changing of any events. I think the “course correction” that occurred is that they went back to the island, correcting that they left, because they weren’t supposed to leave.[/quote]
    But they had to leave to travel back in time right? I am starting to agree with the theory, WHH. Now if that came from Faraday instead of Miles I would have been sold, because Miles seemed unsure of it.[/quote]

    ******
    I love you both for this. sounds like the truth to me. Could that be why the episode dragged on like that? Just take make sure ALL the viewers grasp the only point important in this episode. have the character developed the least explain the most important aspect on TT. kinda like showing a movie trailer a whole year before it comes out. something doesn’t suck as much if one is prepared for it.
    So our lesson this evening is WHH LITTERALLY.
    not a clue showing us all the books with similar themes. NO….the had MIles Completely break it down for us so there’s no room for error when they explain how Ben is ‘good’ and was being tested. They are going to do a lot of this so we won’t be pissed in the end.

    IF WHH is a tt fact, then the only solution i see to stop end game is to create that 108 second loop to never reach it. The 815 crash is the course correcting AND the end of the loop. Maybe the phrase ‘they should’ve never left’ is refering to them leaving the island right AFTER the purge and in the 108 loop and then coming back again in 815.

    Maybe if you die in the past your consciousness goes the day when you where born and reboots? Maybe you can only die if your future self is already dead too? your thoughts?

    Because right now…. we have enough to guess the sentence…..but they need us to keep buy vowels

  182. Toeknee says:

    When Alpert appeared, Sawyer asked where did you come from. Alpert said “You asked my people to get me so here I am”. But how did he really know they needed him? I don’t think any of the crew that were with Kate and Sawyer actually went ahead withouth them, otherwise Sawyer would have put 2 + 2 together. Something fishy – time travel? Whisperers letting Alpert know?

  183. Jason says:

    [quote comment="326287"]Theory check please…

    Danielle didn’t seem to remember Jin. Possible that she ended up in the Temple mind eraser? It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others. She always seemed to know when to avoid trouble (enlightened?) until the rule breakers (Team Keamy) killed her and Alex.

    Maybe we will see how it is that Ben gets Alex. Maybe she ends up in the Temple and she gets a deal that allows her to live, but in ‘exile’. Maybe for killing her group…give up the kid and we’ll let you live…and stay the hell away from us.[/quote]
    That’s a great thought right there and very possible, in my opinion.

  184. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326325"]I can go on and on but I feel like I am going in circles, and nobody reads my posts anyway. (extrapolating from my n of 2)[/quote]
    +++++++++
    I do.

  185. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326325"]TT is very simple. Miles was clear.

    It is relative. Everyone is traveling within his/her own internal time frame of reference. Within that frame YOU only move in one direction – forward.
    Despite this your forward-moving travel can go to different places with the time-space continuum, but you still travel forward. (Even as you move to places perhaps earlier in time.

    The simple way to think of it is: You travel on a one dimensional path (a line) that is allowed to curve all over a two-dimensional time space (a plane — not that kind of plane).

    So you can do what WE do all the time, which is just go straight, or your path can curve around on that flat plane, and take you to other times, but in your internal reference, your own time (your watch) will continue to move forward.

    So, you CAN die, wherever you are because that is the NOW, CURRENT you — your future hasn’t happened yet, so no paradox for you dying. Your death in 1977 happens AFTER your getting on an airplane in 2008 (as far as you frame of reference is concerned). The 1977 people you meet CAN’T die (if they are still alive later) because the 1977 them is relativistically earlier.[/quote]

    Actually, Miles wasn’t nearly as clear as you were! Thank you. It goes back to something we discussed a few weeks ago. Time for *us* is linear. Our own personal “time” goes forward chronologically to *us* no matter where in the “world’s time” we are.

    Daniel explained it to Miles who explained it to Hurley (while we over heard and then you explained it [better] to me). I’m good with TT until someone else asks a question that hasn’t been addressed within these confines! LOL

    : ) P

  186. Lostee says:

    adapa1… I think you’ve used up enough space in this week’s blog. Save up your bile for next week or you’ll run out.

    Or should I say… you’ll fucking run out.

  187. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326375"][quote comment="326325"]TT is very simple. Miles was clear.

    It is relative. Everyone is traveling within his/her own internal time frame of reference. Within that frame YOU only move in one direction – forward.
    Despite this your forward-moving travel can go to different places with the time-space continuum, but you still travel forward. (Even as you move to places perhaps earlier in time.

    The simple way to think of it is: You travel on a one dimensional path (a line) that is allowed to curve all over a two-dimensional time space (a plane — not that kind of plane).

    So you can do what WE do all the time, which is just go straight, or your path can curve around on that flat plane, and take you to other times, but in your internal reference, your own time (your watch) will continue to move forward.

    So, you CAN die, wherever you are because that is the NOW, CURRENT you — your future hasn’t happened yet, so no paradox for you dying. Your death in 1977 happens AFTER your getting on an airplane in 2008 (as far as you frame of reference is concerned). The 1977 people you meet CAN’T die (if they are still alive later) because the 1977 them is relativistically earlier.[/quote]

    Actually, Miles wasn’t nearly as clear as you were! Thank you. It goes back to something we discussed a few weeks ago. Time for *us* is linear. Our own personal “time” goes forward chronologically to *us* no matter where in the “world’s time” we are.

    Daniel explained it to Miles who explained it to Hurley (while we over heard and then you explained it [better] to me). I’m good with TT until someone else asks a question that hasn’t been addressed within these confines! LOL

    : ) P[/quote]
    _____

    Kinda sounds like some of the reincarnation views I read up on. I read your posts. Don’t feel bad, I feel the same way sometimes.

  188. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="326316"]excellent episode

    I can’t believe this is Kate’s first real acting role so good in the Aaron scenes.

    Does anybody else think that Richard and Sawyer have some sort of deal going on between them. I mean Sawyer did not hesitate in taking ben to him etc…[/quote]

    I thought the exact thing when watching the goodbye scene. Evangeline is a good cryer, especially for such a new actress.

    And yes, I think Richard and Sawyer established a trust when Richard came through the sonic fence and visited Dharma and Sawyer confronted him. Sawyer knows Richard would take care of Ben.

  189. LostGrrl says:

    I’ve been thinking about Jack, who is one of the charachers who has done a 180. For most of the series he’s been the man of reason. The hero — swooping in to save the day… find the water… get the survivors to the cave… get off the island… get back to the island to save his friends.

    Now that he’s trying out the man of faith idea, he seems like a dead fish, waiting for something to happen instead of making it happen. Perhaps he will have a crisis of conscience when he re-thinks the idea not to operate on Little Ben? It’s something the (old) Sawyer would have done.

  190. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326383"]I’ve been thinking about Jack, who is one of the charachers who has done a 180. For most of the series he’s been the man of reason. The hero — swooping in to save the day… find the water… get the survivors to the cave… get off the island… get back to the island to save his friends.

    Now that he’s trying out the man of faith idea, he seems like a dead fish, waiting for something to happen instead of making it happen. Perhaps he will have a crisis of conscience when he re-thinks the idea not to operate on Little Ben? It’s something the (old) Sawyer would have done.[/quote]

    I think you’re on to something here… Perhaps Jack decided to accept all Locke’s destiny/island/faith talk since his science/mainland/reason wasn’t working for him. But like some people of faith, he’s waiting to be told what to do rather than just trying to be the best he can be until the island gives him a sign.

    I also feel like Jack is a broken man in another way. Before the island, he wasn’t in a good place, drunk dad died, broken marriage, his career was all he had. On the island, as you say, he was the hero OVER and OVER, even when he didn’t want to be – that was his PURPOSE in life. He returns to the real world and has no purpose, starts the drugs and downward spiral. Returning to the island was his chance to return to a PURPOSE. Only now, Sawyer’s the defacto hero and he thinks he has to wait to learn his new purpose.

    : ) P

  191. Heidi says:

    As we saw what happened to Aaron in the episode, makes me wonder why did Kate go running off to Jack later that night? And sleep with him? Was it because she needed some sort of comfort at the time, regardless if it was from Jack. Meaning did she really want it to be Sawyer? Does she still care for Jack? Do you think she wanted to deliberately get pregnant because she was so upset about Aaron?

    I saw in a Jimmy Kimmell interview where he talked to Evangeline Lilly directly about the part where she goes to Jack and if she is pregnant.

  192. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326272"]In the past few weeks people have been wondering, why exactly did they have to go back to the island? Last week we got the answer for Sayid (however ambiguous it was), and this week we got the answer for Kate. But this week we also got a set up for a future explanation for Jack’s reason to go back (“I haven’t figured it out yet”)

    I also thought it was interesting that they showed more evidence that Jack has become a man of faith. (even though Kate doesn’t like the new him, or the old him)

    When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]

    I like the new Jack. Looks like Jack. Talks like John.

    I posted my thought a few weeks ago regarding what is the point for Jack now that his friends don’t need saving. I see the point coming now. I think Jack will save his friends from a situation that has not presented itself yet. So just be patient.

    I like the new Sawyer. He is growing up.

  193. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326275"][quote comment="326272"] When Sawyer showed up to help Kate take Ben to the Others, I thought it was a pretty low blow for him to say “I’m doing it for her”, referring to Juliet.[/quote]

    Why? I think it was a message to Kate that she can’t just breeze back into his life and start up where they left off. Not fair to Juliet. Or Sawyer.

    I thought this was a great ep for Kate. The goodbye scene with Aaron was heartbreaking. At first I thought she would leave him with Clementine’s mother, since they were friends and she knew everything anyway.

    But we still don’t know why Kate changed her mind, decided to give up the ruse, and try to go back and find Claire? What caused that decision?[/quote]

    After Kate talked to Cassidy, she started to feel guilty about taking Aaron. She realized she did it out of selfishness. She needs to reunite Aaron with Claire to make up for this.

  194. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326298"]Off topic, perhaps, but –

    After the purge, why does Dharma headquarters keep sending food? Do they not know the purge happened?

    Are we to believe that the food shipments were so completely automated that they would just continue forever and ever? Unlikely.

    Whoever is sending the food, has to have a pendulum thingy, since the island is always moving.

    Anyway. I can put it all in the suspension of reality category, but I haven’t.[/quote]
    Widmore or Hawking for reasons as of yet unknown.

  195. Tasha says:

    So this comes from my son who is innocent and who hears things differently than I do. Instead of looking deep into what Miles said, maybe what he said is just strait forward and there is nothing to figure out. The past cannot be changed. But this isn’t the past. This is the NOW. The past has already happened for everyone including Ben. Time has now changed. This might not necessarily been the way it was the first time around in 1977. But it is now. It’s not that they are changing anything that happened in 1977, it’s that they are reliving 1977. Doesn’t necessarily mean this is the exact way it happened before but it is the way it is happeneing now. The episode should be named. “Whatever happens, happens.”

    Ok, after reading that, maybe not. I know I amke no sense but don’t know how to put it:( I am going to hit submit anyway lol.

  196. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326325"]TT is very simple. Miles was clear.

    It is relative. Everyone is traveling within his/her own internal time frame of reference. Within that frame YOU only move in one direction – forward.
    Despite this your forward-moving travel can go to different places with the time-space continuum, but you still travel forward. (Even as you move to places perhaps earlier in time.

    The simple way to think of it is: You travel on a one dimensional path (a line) that is allowed to curve all over a two-dimensional time space (a plane — not that kind of plane).

    So you can do what WE do all the time, which is just go straight, or your path can curve around on that flat plane, and take you to other times, but in your internal reference, your own time (your watch) will continue to move forward.

    So, you CAN die, wherever you are because that is the NOW, CURRENT you — your future hasn’t happened yet, so no paradox for you dying. Your death in 1977 happens AFTER your getting on an airplane in 2008 (as far as you frame of reference is concerned). The 1977 people you meet CAN’T die (if they are still alive later) because the 1977 them is relativistically earlier.
    This is all very clear to me, but I think I lack the vocabulary to say it simpler. A blackboard would help.

    I can go on and on but I feel like I am going in circles, and nobody reads my posts anyway. (extrapolating from my n of 2)[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I agree.

    About the TT explaination… Not about no one reading your posts :)

  197. m@ says:

    [quote comment="326321"](Lost4ever, please excuse my curse words, I know the stigma. But I’m actually a writer and nothing has the power of a four letter words. So i respectfully apoligise to you and everyone who cares. I curse to my mom and my boss…just in an enthusiastic and respectable way.

    Like ” I just fucking LOVE reading you posts Lost4ever!!!)

    ……partly because you have the patience to still care about Grammer and spelling and other skills that waste our time just as much as this crap episode.

    what ever happened happened because Writers fucked up and let it!!

    I call

    FILLER!!!!
    almost as bad as the double death by spider poison we all want to pretend never happened. ;-)

    #2

    I just don’t care about Kate at all anymore.

    Actually I couldn’t care less about aaron and jack either. Why when I still have the incident,jacob, john, and the series finale to think about so I can tell you all ‘i told you so’ and then take your money you shouldn’t have bet.

    #3. All this filler did was make Future episodes extremly predictable now.[/quote]

    I am not quite sure how you can call this episode “filler content”. Did we not want to know what Sawyer said to Kate on the chopper? Did we not want to know what Kate did with Aaron? Did we not want to know why Kate went back? Sure, the answers to these questions weren’t the most exciting, but they were answers that we would have been upset had they not been addressed. Therefore, I am in disagreement that this is filler content. To me, filler content is that which we could easily get by without knowing, and last night’s episode was NOT that. Oh yeah, and did we not want to know how Ben was saved and ended up as an Other? No matter how well your ‘Grammer’ be, I don’t understand your hyperactive rants. I think you’re jealous.

  198. Duke says:

    Before reading the comments I want to explain why I think this episode exemplified how great LOST has always been. This episode filled in so many blanks it was ridiculous. What happened to Aaron answered. What did Sawyer ask Kate to do answered. Althought these two items were fairly predictable it was still exciting to get the confirmation on these two highly debated questions. The greatest thing, to me, because I already thought the Aaron and Sawyer questions were predictable, was Hurley and Miles. Hurley was essentially playing the role of us. The LOST fans. He asked every question that we all had been pondering from the beginning of this season and Miles answered most of them. When it came down to the BIG question Hurley asked about the time travelling paradox we get the always mysterious Richard to sum it up very nicely. He stated that he would help poor little Ben but that Ben would not remember it. Great stuff.

    While watching the Hurley/Miles back and forth I literally laughed out loud as visions went passing through my brain. I imagined Hurley being all the LOST fans and Hammer playing the role of Miles getting upset because no one could understand the what happened happened scenerio and then finally being stumped and sorta throwing his hands in the air and stomping away when he had no explanation. Funny stuff, very funny stuff.

  199. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326328"]I too am confused about why Jack and company had to come back to the island? I thought that the bad thing that happened upon the O6 leaving was all the time flashes. I thought that John was supposed to leave and bring them back in order to fix everything (I thought that to mean that it would stop the time flashes). Sawyer told his group that they would wait for the O6 to come back for as long as it took. Jin has been combing the island for the past three years looking for them to show up, and when they do return, it seems to be for nothing. Juliet tells Jack tonight that they didn’t need to be saved. Sawyer acts like they are all a nuisance and getting in the way of the good life he has built himself with Dharma. It just doesn’t make sense to me. What was all that stuff about “we were never supposed to leave”? “We have to go back”? Why was Sawyer willing to wait for as long as it took for them to come back, when he seems to not care now that they’re back? What has the return of the O6 fixed? Please, can someone help me?[/quote]
    Patience, young one. I think we are building up to something that will be revealed. Sawyer did buy into what John had been telling him. Sawyer followed John and believed him when he said he would bring them back. He even got confirmation, (in a way) from his first talk with ’74 Richard, that John either is or will be the leader of the Others. Sawyer feels responsible for the rest of the group that stayed, and is dealing with new situations as best as he can. Plus — he’s gotta think about all of this stuff for a while — read a book and figure out how to make everything right tomorrow.

  200. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326330"][quote comment="326314"][quote comment="326310"]
    ____

    I actually loved the episode, minus the commercials. What exactly are you upset about?[/quote]

    *****
    Detective Skywalker… You have the best damn handle EVER!! You obviously rock!!
    Hey at least Lucas hides his minimal filler by surrounding it with Special Effects and Buddhist doctrine. unfortunatley Lost isn’t from lucas and gives us pure uncut filler whenever we aren’t supposed to notice the lack of logical explantions we have for ANY of these characters to Want to save The omen child. But to have kate and sawyer be the ones!!!????

    Some one please explain to me how thats a good idea.

    Here’s why its not..I’m upset by the filler we saw all around the Omen kid. I SSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO mad they chose to employ the use of Kate, AND sawyer as means to save his life. The only thing worse (or just as backward)would have been Sayid tryin to save him and sawyer shooting him.

    I mad the theory posted earlier about Kate having to save Ben to find Aaron wasn’t the case…I didn’t even think it so pertinent til now.

    Honestly guys….

    as I Gradually get a little calmer, the true source of my disenchantment is very clear. IMO, this episode makes a strong case for the high probability of them fucking up this show up in the end,

    and I just can’t accept that.

    “IMO this episode was completely laced with blatant fingers pointing to the ‘purgatory theory” which I always hated and have only my special finger as a response for that.”

    I also think that they’ve gone too far now for purgatory not to be the case”

    The hieroglyphs translating to UNDERWORLD prove to be a statement of the obvious now when I had my hopes SSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOO High.

    Don’t get me wrong….they can’t screw up enough for me not finish off the show.
    Does anyone remember Steven Kings ‘the stand’??
    Ironically that show came up monday in my Clive Barker vs Steven King.

    Steven is a better writer. In fact he’s so good we over look the fact that he consistently has the shittiest story endings possible(sorry ‘crappiest’ was enough for me Lost4ever)
    The Stand…….americans were all captivated by this amazing story. LIke lost it was watched and enjoyed by many. Yet only LOVED enough to be understood by the smartest fans.

    And what happened on the end of THe Stand? I’ve never even met one person who can remember because it was THE worst ending of all time. No biggie right? I’ve just boycotted everything steven king after that.

    LOST is the best….and most importantly the smartest show of all time. But I think the worst thing DC ever did was sign the contract telling us all exactly when the show is gonna end. which gives us filler and commercials………or crazy action/less commercials because they ran out of time to tell the story.

    DC says it the contract was good for them.

    The edge it took from them I now know. and have to talk like yoda to make me feel better about.

    It’s just not fair to steal all the Star trek Fans from around the world, historically proven to be the most relentless fans of all time…who at the start of LOST still had a big whole in their tv hearts from watching Picard turn into Shatner because laziness,contenment, and money kill the best characters, the best movies, and anything else on TV that actually makes you smarter.

    the purgatory ending is like trading Joe Montana to the Raiders LOL!!! a perfect example for the reasoning of my suffering.

    This show is just TOO good to go out all wishy washy like that. I remember HATING this show until John found the hatch the first season! Then I’ve been too addicted to accept anything below par. Purgatory is a cop out….. an easy way to end a show that should have been
    impossible to even fathom, but became a reality when the checks got written.

    Abrams was better off wondering if he would still even have a LOST the following year. When He could afford to screw it up because nobody cared yet. Now….this show is all us geeks have to count on.

    But….. i’ve had my say. … Which i know was a lot, so i’ll be nice and promise to remain silent if we are ever again cursed with more filler.
    ** I refuse to be a ‘told you so guy’ specifically when it pertains to me trying to explain how they fucked up the best damn show we ever saw all because they wanted to give Ben another chance”

    Sawyer should have but a second bullet in him while kate watched….[/quote]

    ________

    I wouldn’t count my chickens just yet. LOL.

  201. Duke says:

    Let me also explain the greatest moment for me in this episode. The scene where Richard takes young Ben and the other mentions Ellie and Charles not being too happy about what he is doing. This was the most interesting because I have yet to buy into Ellie being Daniel’s mother. Let me explain. Daniel’s history in the show has dated back to 1996 when Desmond met him as a professor at Oxford. If Ellie is on the island in 1977 and based on the others mention of her I assume that she was actively involved at that time, then Daniel had to have been born before that time. There is NO WAY that he is only 19 years old at Oxford in 1996. If he was born on the island then he would have presumably started having nosebleeds before Charlotte and Miles which if my memory is correct he never got or got them way after both of these characters got theirs. Granted we do not know if the others had a way off the island at this point in time which, I have to believe, to support my theory. If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. Maybe I am wrong and I am open to be proven that way but up to this point the only Knowledge we have that Eloise is Daniel’s mother was from the crawl at the bottom of the screen in the enhanced version of the episodes. Also on the podcast Darlton said something about Ellie being 16-17 years of age in the 1954 episode. which would make her about 40 years old in 1977. The math just doesn’t add up to me.

  202. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326349"][quote comment="326323"]oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”[/quote]

    whomever chose to use my name for this quote is an asshole, but a funny one.

    hahahahaha

    i get it…and you can poke fun at me all you want. But using my handle to as point the finger at me WHILE throwing stones at GMTa Leah is just wrong in any timeline. ANd EXTREMELY disrespectfull. We don’t need anymore drama on this site.

    So PLEASE!!! Continue to your shit talking to me always…I can take it! I like a challege/lets keep it fair though.[/quote]
    _____________________________________

    Dude — disrespectful is continuing with the cursing after you’ve been asked kindly to stop. If you can’t help it, don’t blog!

  203. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326371"][quote comment="326287"]Theory check please…

    Danielle didn’t seem to remember Jin. Possible that she ended up in the Temple mind eraser? It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others. She always seemed to know when to avoid trouble (enlightened?) until the rule breakers (Team Keamy) killed her and Alex.

    Maybe we will see how it is that Ben gets Alex. Maybe she ends up in the Temple and she gets a deal that allows her to live, but in ‘exile’. Maybe for killing her group…give up the kid and we’ll let you live…and stay the hell away from us.[/quote]
    That’s a great thought right there and very possible, in my opinion.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I’m not buying this one. I think if Danielle had been enlightened she would not continue to refer to her group as getting “sick”. This chick kept to herself in a big way, figuritively and literally — for 16 years. She may or may not have remembered Jin, but either way it would have been extremely out of character for her to go, “Oh my god! I know you! My team found you floating in the water, I saw you disappear, then I tried to shoot you!”. Just think of all the stange crap she had seen during her island tour. Seeing Jin in 2004 was just par for the course from her perspective.

  204. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.

  205. Randomthoughts says:

    [quote comment="326291"]Kate off island…when was all that taking place? I mean I figure the Clementine scene was shortly after they got back because Aaron was still a baby, but it seemed like she visited Claire’s mom during the day? Gotta rewatch that…timing seems off.

    Anyway, I think they were supposed to leave, in order to come back and have the effect that they’ve had and will have in Dharam. None of them knew that they would have this effect, but it is what has always happened.

    To me, we are watching how this whole series plays out in a disjointed fashion, which is great for entertainment but we will ultimately not witness any “game changing” events, rather, “oh, that’s why he/she does this or that.”

    So I’m now thinking Widmore wanted to exploit the island, and that’s why he got banned, which unfortunately is a blow to Team Widmore. Probably, neither Ben or Widmore is on the “right” side, bcuz Ben got corrupted with his power as well. I’m still holding out hope for Widmore though.[/quote]

    Widmore didn’t want to exploit the island. He and Eloise (Ellie) Hawking were married, Ellie got pregnant with twins (Penny and Daniel F.), the island wasn’t letting children be born, and so Widmore and Eloise try to defy the island by leaving it to have their children–all this taken from the Dan Brown playbook. :)

  206. RGS says:

    [quote comment="326409"] Patience, young one. I think we are building up to something that will be revealed. Sawyer did buy into what John had been telling him. Sawyer followed John and believed him when he said he would bring them back. He even got confirmation, (in a way) from his first talk with ’74 Richard, that John either is or will be the leader of the Others. Sawyer feels responsible for the rest of the group that stayed, and is dealing with new situations as best as he can. Plus — he’s gotta think about all of this stuff for a while — read a book and figure out how to make everything right tomorrow.[/quote]

    Although I do agree that a little patience is warranted, I really did have an issue with Juliette acting like she did. “We didn’t need saving?” Yeah, you did as far as anyone outside that island would know…you were skipping through time and having nose bleeds, dropping like flies, and Locke said in order to save you he’d have to bring back the other folks…that was the last transmission you got as he lowered himself into the belly of the beast. Why would she assume that they would know they were ok?

  207. SMC says:

    First time commenter.

    What I really liked was the idea that Jack wouldn’t help Ben, which makes it appear that Ben is goner. But in reality, Jack’s refusal to help is what necessitates Kate taking him to Richard and setting up his alliance with the Others. What if Jack had stepped in to save Ben? I suppose there would have to have been a course correction to ultimately get Ben to the Others anyway.

  208. Duke says:

    Ok maybe Ben won’t remember after Richard gets done with him. Roger will though as should the other Dharma folk. Roger seemed geniunely concerned about Ben and regretful about his treatment of him. Sometimes it takes a life altering event for someone to change, say like your kid almost dying from a gunshot wound, perhaps. This at first viewing seemed to be a catalyst for Roger to change how he treated young Benjamin but we already know that he continues being an asshole to him. What gives? Also, nobody ever mentions to Ben that when he was say 14 he was shot in the chest by a hostile? Most of this doesn’t make sense. That is just like LOST. GIve me a better understanding of something (time travel) and also at the same time screw with my mind about something else.

    One last thing for know and to my surprise nobody has commented about the gunshot wound. In all the screen caps from last weeks episode it appearred that the hole in his chest was on his left side either directly in his heart area or somewhere close but this week it appears that the wound is on the right side of poor little Benjamin’s chest. Someone please correct me because it would be a major disappointment if the would had been moved to help explain his survival.

  209. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?

  210. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326412"][quote comment="326349"][quote comment="326323"]oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”[/quote]

    whomever chose to use my name for this quote is an asshole, but a funny one.

    hahahahaha

    i get it…and you can poke fun at me all you want. But using my handle to as point the finger at me WHILE throwing stones at GMTa Leah is just wrong in any timeline. ANd EXTREMELY disrespectfull. We don’t need anymore drama on this site.

    So PLEASE!!! Continue to your shit talking to me always…I can take it! I like a challege/lets keep it fair though.[/quote]
    _____________________________________

    Dude — disrespectful is continuing with the cursing after you’ve been asked kindly to stop. If you can’t help it, don’t blog![/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Dude it doesn’t say anything in the “rules” about using curse words. It is disrespectful to me for you to tell someone to stop blogging if they can’t help not cussing. Some people use curse words to help explain their anger/frustrations/joy/excitement it is somewhat commen amongst various groups in today’s society. I am sure you watch movies or listen to music with curse words in them. Do not be a hypocrite because you do not agree. It is my understanding that this blog is here to give people a chance to discuss and argue about their views of the greates television series of all-time give the guy a break for not expressing him/herself the way you would prefer. The write to free speech still applys or did Obama do away with that as well. ROTFLMAO.

  211. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]

    ________
    When did he say he had been the leader for 30 years? I think I would have remembered that. I might be wrong though.

  212. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326424"][quote comment="326412"][quote comment="326349"][quote comment="326323"]oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”[/quote]

    whomever chose to use my name for this quote is an asshole, but a funny one.

    hahahahaha

    i get it…and you can poke fun at me all you want. But using my handle to as point the finger at me WHILE throwing stones at GMTa Leah is just wrong in any timeline. ANd EXTREMELY disrespectfull. We don’t need anymore drama on this site.

    So PLEASE!!! Continue to your shit talking to me always…I can take it! I like a challege/lets keep it fair though.[/quote]
    _____________________________________

    Dude — disrespectful is continuing with the cursing after you’ve been asked kindly to stop. If you can’t help it, don’t blog![/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Dude it doesn’t say anything in the “rules” about using curse words. It is disrespectful to me for you to tell someone to stop blogging if they can’t help not cussing. Some people use curse words to help explain their anger/frustrations/joy/excitement it is somewhat commen amongst various groups in today’s society. I am sure you watch movies or listen to music with curse words in them. Do not be a hypocrite because you do not agree. It is my understanding that this blog is here to give people a chance to discuss and argue about their views of the greates television series of all-time give the guy a break for not expressing him/herself the way you would prefer. The write to free speech still applys or did Obama do away with that as well. ROTFLMAO.[/quote]
    _____

    Must be more about maturity. It’s more on the lines of self control. Would you go into a church and start talking like that? It’s one thing to say it here and there but to do it continuisly after knowing it is offending some people IS disrespectful. But whatever…..

  213. Detective Skywalker says:

    I have found this LA times blog to be very helpful in my LOST experience. Here’s a small excerpt and the link I hope y’all find it helpful/interesting…

    “Luckily, we have a major deus ex machina — and I’m beginning to suspect he’s a real deus, if you know what I mean — in Richard Alpert. So we learned that Richard was able to use his mumbo jumbo to save Ben’s life but simultaneously cause him to forget Sayid and become the scheming weasel we all know and love today. Genius! Thanks, Richard!

    Yes, it seems convenient, and a little too much of the dialogue in “What Happened, Happened” felt like it was being explained right at us instead of existing in the make-believe world we’ve grown obsessed with, but no matter. Nestor Carbonell, who plays Alpert, is a damn compelling actor and the lighting, sinister music and his intense stare sold the moment. Who would ever have guessed that Hurley and Kate were the two who helped make Ben who he is now.”

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/lost/

  214. The Wrz says:

    As much as I agree this was a filler ep, I will take as much Kate filler as they are willing to dish out.

  215. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326425"][quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]

    ________
    When did he say he had been the leader for 30 years? I think I would have remembered that. I might be wrong though.[/quote]
    _______________________
    He said it to John when he arrived in Tunisia with the doctor to set John’s broken leg.

  216. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326426"][quote comment="326424"][quote comment="326412"][quote comment="326349"][quote comment="326323"]oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”[/quote]

    whomever chose to use my name for this quote is an asshole, but a funny one.

    hahahahaha

    i get it…and you can poke fun at me all you want. But using my handle to as point the finger at me WHILE throwing stones at GMTa Leah is just wrong in any timeline. ANd EXTREMELY disrespectfull. We don’t need anymore drama on this site.

    So PLEASE!!! Continue to your shit talking to me always…I can take it! I like a challege/lets keep it fair though.[/quote]
    _____________________________________

    Dude — disrespectful is continuing with the cursing after you’ve been asked kindly to stop. If you can’t help it, don’t blog![/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Dude it doesn’t say anything in the “rules” about using curse words. It is disrespectful to me for you to tell someone to stop blogging if they can’t help not cussing. Some people use curse words to help explain their anger/frustrations/joy/excitement it is somewhat commen amongst various groups in today’s society. I am sure you watch movies or listen to music with curse words in them. Do not be a hypocrite because you do not agree. It is my understanding that this blog is here to give people a chance to discuss and argue about their views of the greates television series of all-time give the guy a break for not expressing him/herself the way you would prefer. The write to free speech still applys or did Obama do away with that as well. ROTFLMAO.[/quote]
    _____

    Must be more about maturity. It’s more on the lines of self control. Would you go into a church and start talking like that? It’s one thing to say it here and there but to do it continuisly after knowing it is offending some people IS disrespectful. But whatever…..[/quote]
    _____________________________
    So you are mature if you do not cuss? I did not realize that we are here to pray at the LOST church. I do not really have a dog in this fight. I just get upset when some try to stiffle other peoples ways of expressing themselves. I try not to use the old curse words very ofetn because I try not to offend others but some people do not have that filter and I do not judge them harsley for it as some people on here do. I was not trying to “take” sides just giving the other side of the argument.

  217. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326429"][quote comment="326425"][quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]

    ________
    When did he say he had been the leader for 30 years? I think I would have remembered that. I might be wrong though.[/quote]
    _______________________
    He said it to John when he arrived in Tunisia with the doctor to set John’s broken leg.[/quote]
    _____

    I don’t think he did…I take that back…I KNOW he didn’t.

  218. Duke says:

    Two more things……..for now. Who goes to a big grocery store to get their kid some milk for the car ride home? Do they not have convenient stores in the neighborhood?

    Also not previously mentioned but the song Kate was singing to Aaron. Was it the song Claire asked the potential adoptive parents to sing to him if they were granted the adoption? I think that maybe it was but am sure someone will know for sure. If it was it is just another example of why this show is sooooooooooo freakin great.

  219. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="326424"][quote comment="326412"][quote comment="326349"][quote comment="326323"]oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”[/quote]

    whomever chose to use my name for this quote is an asshole, but a funny one.

    hahahahaha

    i get it…and you can poke fun at me all you want. But using my handle to as point the finger at me WHILE throwing stones at GMTa Leah is just wrong in any timeline. ANd EXTREMELY disrespectfull. We don’t need anymore drama on this site.

    So PLEASE!!! Continue to your shit talking to me always…I can take it! I like a challege/lets keep it fair though.[/quote]
    _____________________________________

    Dude — disrespectful is continuing with the cursing after you’ve been asked kindly to stop. If you can’t help it, don’t blog![/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Dude it doesn’t say anything in the “rules” about using curse words. It is disrespectful to me for you to tell someone to stop blogging if they can’t help not cussing. Some people use curse words to help explain their anger/frustrations/joy/excitement it is somewhat commen amongst various groups in today’s society. I am sure you watch movies or listen to music with curse words in them. Do not be a hypocrite because you do not agree. It is my understanding that this blog is here to give people a chance to discuss and argue about their views of the greates television series of all-time give the guy a break for not expressing him/herself the way you would prefer. The write to free speech still applys or did Obama do away with that as well. ROTFLMAO.[/quote]
    ___________________________

    Clam down guy. Just because I watch movies with cursing and then ask for someone not to curse after being asked not to on this blog does not make me a hypocrite. Using a curse word in an appropriate context is generally considered acceptable. However, gratuitous use of curse words only shows a lack of grammatical skill in expressing oneself. It’s sad to see someone who is so unintelligent they must use curse words to communicate in every post. Furthermore, when politely asked to keep it to an appropriate context and to not respond politely is inconsiderate, selfish, and rude. Grow up and learn to play nice. You’re not in kindergarten anymore.

  220. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326430"][quote comment="326429"][quote comment="326425"][quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]

    ________
    When did he say he had been the leader for 30 years? I think I would have remembered that. I might be wrong though.[/quote]
    _______________________
    He said it to John when he arrived in Tunisia with the doctor to set John’s broken leg.[/quote]
    _____

    I don’t think he did…I take that back…I KNOW he didn’t.[/quote]
    _____________________________
    He most certainly did say it. In fact he said he was their leader for OVER 30 years. Look it up then apologize for being wrong. You could probably find the fucking info on lostpedia and search charles widmore.

  221. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326433"]Two more things……..for now. Who goes to a big grocery store to get their kid some milk for the car ride home? Do they not have convenient stores in the neighborhood?[/quote]

    She was on the “run” from home because of the lawyer Ben sent to scare her, so I am not sure how “far” from home she was. But FTR, there aren’t really neighborhood convenience stores in Los Angeles, the way there are in other places.

    [quote comment="326433"]
    Also not previously mentioned but the song Kate was singing to Aaron. Was it the song Claire asked the potential adoptive parents to sing to him if they were granted the adoption? I think that maybe it was but am sure someone will know for sure. If it was it is just another example of why this show is sooooooooooo freakin great.[/quote]

    Yes, it was that song. I said that same thing out loud when I heard Kate singing it to Aaron!

    : ) P

  222. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326435"][quote comment="326430"][quote comment="326429"][quote comment="326425"][quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]

    ________
    When did he say he had been the leader for 30 years? I think I would have remembered that. I might be wrong though.[/quote]
    _______________________
    He said it to John when he arrived in Tunisia with the doctor to set John’s broken leg.[/quote]
    _____

    I don’t think he did…I take that back…I KNOW he didn’t.[/quote]
    _____________________________
    He most certainly did say it. In fact he said he was their leader for OVER 30 years. Look it up then apologize for being wrong. You could probably find the fucking info on lostpedia and search charles widmore.[/quote]
    ___

    How bout you look it up and prove it to me.

  223. code says:

    [quote comment="326408"]Before reading the comments I want to explain why I think this episode exemplified how great LOST has always been. This episode filled in so many blanks it was ridiculous. What happened to Aaron answered. What did Sawyer ask Kate to do answered. Althought these two items were fairly predictable it was still exciting to get the confirmation on these two highly debated questions. The greatest thing, to me, because I already thought the Aaron and Sawyer questions were predictable, was Hurley and Miles. Hurley was essentially playing the role of us. The LOST fans. He asked every question that we all had been pondering from the beginning of this season and Miles answered most of them. When it came down to the BIG question Hurley asked about the time travelling paradox we get the always mysterious Richard to sum it up very nicely. He stated that he would help poor little Ben but that Ben would not remember it. Great stuff.

    While watching the Hurley/Miles back and forth I literally laughed out loud as visions went passing through my brain. I imagined Hurley being all the LOST fans and Hammer playing the role of Miles getting upset because no one could understand the what happened happened scenerio and then finally being stumped and sorta throwing his hands in the air and stomping away when he had no explanation. Funny stuff, very funny stuff.[/quote]

    I agree–great episode! I don’t really get the few critical responses on here of the episode. I felt it was really well crafted to do as much as possible. The only thing I would have like to see is some hint that the characters are concerned or thinking about where Faraday and Rose and Bernard are. I don’t need to know where they are–but it feels sloppy not having the characters say something about it.

    I like how Jack’s story is still open-ended. I think it will somehow involve him meeting/reconnecting with his [ghost?] father.

    I wonder if Richard had ever been visiting the past or future when we have seen him throughout the series.

  224. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326434"][quote comment="326424"][quote comment="326412"][quote comment="326349"][quote comment="326323"]oh, and btw u may also know me as “gmta leah”[/quote]

    whomever chose to use my name for this quote is an asshole, but a funny one.

    hahahahaha

    i get it…and you can poke fun at me all you want. But using my handle to as point the finger at me WHILE throwing stones at GMTa Leah is just wrong in any timeline. ANd EXTREMELY disrespectfull. We don’t need anymore drama on this site.

    So PLEASE!!! Continue to your shit talking to me always…I can take it! I like a challege/lets keep it fair though.[/quote]
    _____________________________________

    Dude — disrespectful is continuing with the cursing after you’ve been asked kindly to stop. If you can’t help it, don’t blog![/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Dude it doesn’t say anything in the “rules” about using curse words. It is disrespectful to me for you to tell someone to stop blogging if they can’t help not cussing. Some people use curse words to help explain their anger/frustrations/joy/excitement it is somewhat commen amongst various groups in today’s society. I am sure you watch movies or listen to music with curse words in them. Do not be a hypocrite because you do not agree. It is my understanding that this blog is here to give people a chance to discuss and argue about their views of the greates television series of all-time give the guy a break for not expressing him/herself the way you would prefer. The write to free speech still applys or did Obama do away with that as well. ROTFLMAO.[/quote]
    ___________________________

    Clam down guy. Just because I watch movies with cursing and then ask for someone not to curse after being asked not to on this blog does not make me a hypocrite. Using a curse word in an appropriate context is generally considered acceptable. However, gratuitous use of curse words only shows a lack of grammatical skill in expressing oneself. It’s sad to see someone who is so unintelligent they must use curse words to communicate in every post. Furthermore, when politely asked to keep it to an appropriate context and to not respond politely is inconsiderate, selfish, and rude. Grow up and learn to play nice. You’re not in kindergarten anymore.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Grow up? You are the one getting bent out of shape over a few well placed curse words. The dude was just trying to express his anger/hatred of this episode. Cussing seems to get the point across that he/she HATED this episode. Let people be who they are and express themselves however they see fit. We aren’t here to pass judgement on people. because we do not agree with them.

  225. Tasha says:

    Duke,

    He may have said it but he didn’t say it at that time for sure. So I want the proof. I would be showing it to you! Your the one that said it happened. I have no proof to find.

  226. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326438"]The only thing I would have like to see is some hint that the characters are concerned or thinking about where Faraday and Rose and Bernard are. I don’t need to know where they are–but it feels sloppy not having the characters say something about it.[/quote]

    I agree. It all goes back to the LOSTies never TALKING about anything – what is that freaky sound in the jungle? why polar bears? why 108 minutes? what is the black smoke? how did the black rock get there? I mean, if I were STUCK on an island for even ten hours, I think I would be sitting in a circle with other people just looking around at all the weird stuff and TALKING about it.

    But NOW, I think it goes past not quite “right” and edges on really “wrong” that they aren’t asking questions. I can ALMOST buy that they’re not talking about the weird STUFF, but not talking about people they came to know, and even care about? SURELY one of the four characters “new” to 1977 would have asked if ANYONE else survived and where they were. Sawyer threw off a comment about Daniel, shouldn’t SOMEONE have asked more? Those are the kinds of things that bug me.

    : ) P

  227. Tasha says:

    Oh ok. I found it. Three decades. SO SORRY! Duke. (kissing feet.) I don’t understand how that tells us that he is definately on the island in 1977. Also it says they protected the island for 3 decades. So,…who knows. (Still kissing feet.)

  228. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326437"][quote comment="326435"][quote comment="326430"][quote comment="326429"][quote comment="326425"][quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]

    ________
    When did he say he had been the leader for 30 years? I think I would have remembered that. I might be wrong though.[/quote]
    _______________________
    He said it to John when he arrived in Tunisia with the doctor to set John’s broken leg.[/quote]
    _____

    I don’t think he did…I take that back…I KNOW he didn’t.[/quote]
    _____________________________
    He most certainly did say it. In fact he said he was their leader for OVER 30 years. Look it up then apologize for being wrong. You could probably find the fucking info on lostpedia and search charles widmore.[/quote]
    ___

    How bout you look it up and prove it to me.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Cause I do not need to prove anything to anybody especially YOU. I am right and do not feel it necessary to waste my time to look up something that I KNOW WAS SAID. You are the dumbass that doesn’t believe so waste your own time to prove to yourself that I am right. You do not believe me, I do not care. I do not care because I KNOW THAT WIDMORE SAID IT. You are the one doubting it so go ahead waste some more of your time and prove me right. Or just check back later and there will be several more post backing me up. I have given you the tools needed to debunk your theory so go and do it.

  229. Lostee says:

    Duke and Tasha,

    Don’t get caught up in the musings of an angry poster (adapa1). And don’t give him/her more attention that he/she is obviously craving.

  230. Duke says:

    Tasha,

    Sorry for the anger but when I know something happened I do not feel the need to find the proof. I leave that to the person that doesn’t believe.

  231. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326444"]Duke and Tasha,

    Don’t get caught up in the musings of an angry poster (adapa1). And don’t give him/her more attention that he/she is obviously craving.[/quote]
    ______________________
    Not getting caught up just want people to be able to express themselves however they see fit whether I agree with their methods or not.

  232. Toeknee says:

    Tasha, Duke, here’s the line from TLADOJB. Carry on.

    WIDMORE: They’re not the “Others” to me. They’re my people. We protected the Island peacefully for more than three decades. But then I was exiled… by him… just as you were.

  233. Tasha says:

    So funny. I have been right many times and looked the proof up. You need to STFU. I already said SORRY! Next time someone up here is wrong and acts like they know for a FACT, I’ll be sure to curse them out the way you do!Yes I will waste my time. The same as you are right now. I wouldn’t have gotten so crappy if you hadn’t gotten so crappy about the cursing. I won’t stoop to your level and start cursing up here because I have a little self control.

    Thx for trying though, don’t get your panties all wadded up!

  234. Toeknee says:

    Oops! Forgot this part too

    WIDMORE: Well, that’s the exit. I was afraid Benjamin might fool you into leaving the Island, as he did with me. I was their leader.

  235. mt says:

    Its nice to know that Alpert doesn’t answer to Charles.

  236. fitty says:

    BY FAR the best episode of the season minus the part where Richard says, “he will never remember this nor will he ever be innocent again”. Through it was a little cheezy/hollywood. Still, this episode seemed to have the most continuity and actually reminded me of the older seasons.

    Faraday haaaas to be an other. He couldn’t have died because he exists in the future much like Ben.

  237. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="326256"]Okay, all the new posters are silent again. So I am going to do my Bed Time For Bonzo post now and lurk for a while:

    I think that we just saw the entrance for the Temple and Temple is where one becomes enlightened and lose their innocence. The Temple is only for the enlightened ones (Ben said something about the Temple only being for ‘us’.)

    I think Ben losing his innocence is enlightenment and ‘knowing the meaning of life’ in a way. He now know the ‘rules’ of fate and destiny. He now knows he has to do certain things and when they will happen and just have to take it.

    And he always does just take it…until Keamy killed Alex…then he tried to break the rules. He turned the wheel when it wasn’t his turn, it was Locke’s turn. He changed Miles et al’s time line order. And I think he’s either killed Penny or has at least made an effort to which would be a rule breaker according to his conversation with Widmore.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Hammer, it is of great mystical significance that your BTFB post ended up as number 108…; okay, it’s not significant at all. (grin)

    Anyway, going into the temple takes away one’s innocence. Except for what was in his/her short term memory, an Other knows everything. What a terrible burden….

    8) Jim

  238. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326445"]Tasha,

    Sorry for the anger but when I know something happened I do not feel the need to find the proof. I leave that to the person that doesn’t believe.[/quote]

    I am sorry too. I was WRONG. Which sucks because I already read thru it and watched 3 times before I posted that I knew. In all of that I was looking and listening for 30 years and did not see or hear the 3 decade thing.

    It’s all my fault but I guess I was angry about the cursing thing and have kept my mouth shut about it but IMHO I don’t see the need for it. It really SHOULD be a rule up here. Like I said an occasional curse word here and there is one thing. Everybody curses. I have the worst potty mouth in the world, believe me. In my line of work, I don’t include it.

    Anyway, I am not usually like this. It must be in the air or something and I truly am sorry. I hope you can forgive me. It is from lack of sleep I am sure:( Please please please don’t hate me! I am really a sweet little innocent girl at heart!

  239. Miss lost says:

    I think it is interesting that Richard seemed to just appear! Whisperers could be a good theory…it would also seem that Widmore and Ellie are NOT on the island at this time or I think they would be there as well (or maybe no one else possesses the same “abilities” as Richard does…he seems to be the only person who does not age…why is this?)Sawyer is not affraid b/c Richard when they met earlier in 1977 and Sawyer mentioned Jacob Richard knows he has a purpose for being there (imo). Richard is willing to take young Ben BUT explains this will not be without consequences! Someone mentioned it in an earlier post that the scene felt like “selling your soul to the devil.” It felt that way to me too, (but still hope this is not about purgatory)to much of an optimist for that! So i think this is Ben’s rebirth and it also seemed to coincide with the “awakening” of old Ben…
    -miss

  240. sector7 says:

    “It is better to keep one’s mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and resolve all doubt.” ~Abraham Lincoln

    “Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret.” ~Ambrose Bierce

    “Never miss a good chance to shut up.” ~Will Rogers

  241. PJSander says:

    BTW, a new video podcast is up on abc.com. Not much to it, but amusing at least. No audio podcast, which I prefer, but I suppose it still may be posted.

    : ) P

  242. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="326455"][quote comment="326256"]Okay, all the new posters are silent again. So I am going to do my Bed Time For Bonzo post now and lurk for a while:

    I think that we just saw the entrance for the Temple and Temple is where one becomes enlightened and lose their innocence. The Temple is only for the enlightened ones (Ben said something about the Temple only being for ‘us’.)

    I think Ben losing his innocence is enlightenment and ‘knowing the meaning of life’ in a way. He now know the ‘rules’ of fate and destiny. He now knows he has to do certain things and when they will happen and just have to take it.

    And he always does just take it…until Keamy killed Alex…then he tried to break the rules. He turned the wheel when it wasn’t his turn, it was Locke’s turn. He changed Miles et al’s time line order. And I think he’s either killed Penny or has at least made an effort to which would be a rule breaker according to his conversation with Widmore.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Hammer, it is of great mystical significance that your BTFB post ended up as number 108…; okay, it’s not significant at all. (grin)

    Anyway, going into the temple takes away one’s innocence. Except for what was in his/her short term memory, an Other knows everything. What a terrible burden….

    8) Jim[/quote]
    *************************

    Do you think maybe you have to be invited into the temple or escorted by someone who is an other? The group with Rousseau was not invited and they went crazy according to Rousseau. Or maybe this is a bit out there..but you know how when people have near death experiences their life literally “flashes” before their eyes? maybe in the temple you have “flashes” of things yet to come…could be tough to have faith in things to come if they are not good and could drive a person crazy?!?
    The temple could possess healing properties but at a cost…the cost of knowing more than one person should know…
    -miss

  243. Rumblestilskin says:

    The Wrz said in Comment 214,

    As much as I agree this was a filler ep, I will take as much Kate filler as they are willing to dish out.

    I’d like 2 second that, and add that I woulnt mind some more Sun in a bikini filler too.

    P.S: Cursing in inappropriate settings serves only to exibit a lack of self-control, vocabulary, and class. :)

  244. Bobola says:

    The new episode was terrible.
    I’ve really had it with things that happen where a character acts so out of synch with how we would really expect them to act.
    Example; when Sayid shoots Ben he doesn’t even bother to put another bullet in him or even check to see if he’s dead. He also leaves behind the walkie talkie which he could have used to monitor the people who will be hunting for him. These are NOT the actions of someone with Sayid’s smarts and training.
    And why would Sawyer and Kate even care what happens to little Ben? I’m with the Doc on this one…let him croak.
    But it was a nice touch to try and make Ben’s father seem a little more human.
    I’m really wanting to find out more about the Others and now Alpert has appeared again…and takes Ben to heal him.
    It was quite weird for Alpert to say Ben would lose his innocence. What the hell? He’s gonna get well then they take him to a whore house? Odd choice of words.

  245. LostGrrl says:

    For years we’ve been wondering why Richard Alpert doesn’t age. Where’s the ep on HIS backstory? (Or frontstory, as the case may be!) Might need two eps to cover it all!

  246. Mike says:

    [quote comment="326139"][quote comment="326136"]Heidi this is taken from Lostpedia (non cannon)

    Desmond has yet another ‘flash.’ In it, he saw Charlie inside a facility of some kind containing a yellow blinking light and a switch, followed by Charlie flipping the switch, turning the light off, and then drowning. This action, according to the flash, resulted in Claire and Aaron boarding a rescue helicopter. At first, Desmond hesitated to tell Charlie this, but later laid it out for him, explaining that Charlie must die if the group hopes to be rescued. (Greatest Hits)[/quote]

    Here is the transcript:

    CHARLIE: So, you ready to tell me what you saw this morning?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: Right. So how’s it happen this time?

    [Pause]

    CHARLIE: Come on, Des. You can tell me. I can take it.

    [Pause]

    DESMOND: What I saw, Charlie, was Claire and her baby getting into a helicopter. A helicopter that lifts off–leaves this Island.

    CHARLIE: Are you sure?

    DESMOND: Aye.

    CHARLIE: A rescue helicopter on this beach?

    [Desmond nods]

    CHARLIE: This Island–that’s what you saw?

    [Desmond nods again]

    CHARLIE: We’re getting bloody rescued! I thought you were gonna tell me I was gonna die again!

    DESMOND: You are, Charlie.

    – – – – –

    Desmond did NOT specify Aaron – just “her baby.” When Claire didn’t get on the helicopter with the rest of the O6, Desmond’s “flash” being wrong didn’t bother me TOO much because he’d been wrong before.

    After some more thinking, though, I wonder if Desmond’s flash was RIGHT but with the wrong baby? What if Kate or Juliet has a baby, or Claire has another. Maybe Desmond’s FLASH is of what will ultimately be the LAST episode? The helicopter rescue in the final scene?

    : ) P[/quote]
    Maybe the baby is Kate’s baby and after all she would be the baby’s Aunt.

  247. jj says:

    Duke, don’t sweat it. Tasha is probably mad you brought up Obama.

    I vote for freedom of speech

  248. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="326463"]The new episode was terrible.
    I’ve really had it with things that happen where a character acts so out of synch with how we would really expect them to act.
    Example; when Sayid shoots Ben he doesn’t even bother to put another bullet in him or even check to see if he’s dead. He also leaves behind the walkie talkie which he could have used to monitor the people who will be hunting for him. These are NOT the actions of someone with Sayid’s smarts and training.
    And why would Sawyer and Kate even care what happens to little Ben? I’m with the Doc on this one…let him croak.
    But it was a nice touch to try and make Ben’s father seem a little more human.
    I’m really wanting to find out more about the Others and now Alpert has appeared again…and takes Ben to heal him.
    It was quite weird for Alpert to say Ben would lose his innocence. What the hell? He’s gonna get well then they take him to a whore house? Odd choice of words.[/quote]
    ****************************
    I think the writers WANT them to be out of sync as time as they know it is out of sync! Everything they know is being tested to the core…tough to know what one is suppose to do.
    I think Jack is trying to have faith for once and just believe in the unbelievable. Maybe even faith in himself…even if that is saying No to helping young Ben. Jack is that person that has to have proof and need to be able to solve the equation, and sometimes in life there are not tangible answers…it is just because. Kate still baffles me a little. She has genuine love for Aaron and was quite conflicted about leaving. Maybe it is finally that she loves someone more than herself and needs to try to make things right for Aaron’s sake (maybe that means finding his mom).
    And the new internal motherly instincts in Kate could not allow a young boy to die…even if it was Ben!
    -miss

  249. Amber says:

    [quote comment="326427"]I have found this LA times blog to be very helpful in my LOST experience. Here’s a small excerpt and the link I hope y’all find it helpful/interesting…

    “Luckily, we have a major deus ex machina — and I’m beginning to suspect he’s a real deus, if you know what I mean — in Richard Alpert. So we learned that Richard was able to use his mumbo jumbo to save Ben’s life but simultaneously cause him to forget Sayid and become the scheming weasel we all know and love today. Genius! Thanks, Richard!

    Yes, it seems convenient, and a little too much of the dialogue in “What Happened, Happened” felt like it was being explained right at us instead of existing in the make-believe world we’ve grown obsessed with, but no matter. Nestor Carbonell, who plays Alpert, is a damn compelling actor and the lighting, sinister music and his intense stare sold the moment. Who would ever have guessed that Hurley and Kate were the two who helped make Ben who he is now.”

    I agree with the fact that hurley and miles just kind of threw the time travel stuff right in our face. when i was watching i was like what! it was just wierd the way they did it. almost makes me think that cant be whats happening if they are just going to lay it out there like that. thats not lost style, i mean i realize we need to know the answers to stuff but i dont want them thrown in our faces like that. also i feel like sawyer is going to do something that jack doesnt like and jack is going to turn back into the character that we know and love. Jack like this is boring im waiting for him to run his hands trough his hair and mess that comb over up and get back to buisness.

  250. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326448"]So funny. I have been right many times and looked the proof up. You need to STFU. I already said SORRY! Next time someone up here is wrong and acts like they know for a FACT, I’ll be sure to curse them out the way you do!Yes I will waste my time. The same as you are right now. I wouldn’t have gotten so crappy if you hadn’t gotten so crappy about the cursing. I won’t stoop to your level and start cursing up here because I have a little self control.

    Thx for trying though, don’t get your panties all wadded up![/quote]
    ______________________________
    I did not start the bs about the cursing. Using initials that represent curse words is the same offense, in my mind, that you got so upset about in the first place. If we know that you are cursing by using the first letters in each word then you might as well spell the words out. And the fact remains that you were wrong about Widmore so just admit it and move on. Just for the record I do not wear panties it is commando only bitches!

  251. jaime says:

    I always get so anxious reading through all the posts before i get to post my own thoughts

    [quote comment="326248"][quote comment="326244"][quote comment="326241"][/quote]
    [/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Good point…I think it’s the Temple too. Temple = place of enlightenment.[/quote]
    ***********************************************
    Does Smokie have anything to do with this enlightenment in your eyes? That’s the first thing i thought of when i saw the Temple…where’s Smokie?

    [quote comment="326266"][quote comment="326254"]“Duty Assignments(?):”

    High Priest(?): Richard Alpert
    Leaders: Charles Widmore and Eloise “Ellie” Hawking

    “I don’t answer to them.” – Richard
    8) Jim[/quote]
    Leaders ( plural ), I like it.
    So if Ellie is on the island still in 1977, IMO, there are 2 options. Either she is not Faraday’s mother or Faraday was born on the island. I am leaning toward the latter because I think they pretty much told us that she was his mother.[/quote]

    ************************************************
    Do we really know that they (Ellie/Charles)were on the island in 77’? I guess that’s why you said IF

    [quote comment="326271"]Hey – what’s with Ben having no eyebrows when he wakes up to find John hovering over him?[/quote]
    ***************************************************
    When did this happen?

    [quote comment="326287"]
    Possible that she ended up in the Temple mind eraser? It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others. She always seemed to know when to avoid trouble (enlightened?) Maybe we will see how it is that Ben gets Alex. Maybe she ends up in the Temple and she gets a deal that allows her to live, but in ‘exile’. [/quote]
    ************************************
    I love this Hammer

    My laugh out loud moment of the night…..Hurley’s facial expression when he stumped Miles w/ his Ben TT question.

  252. Detective Skywalker says:

    [quote comment="326469"][quote comment="326427"]I have found this LA times blog to be very helpful in my LOST experience. Here’s a small excerpt and the link I hope y’all find it helpful/interesting…

    “Luckily, we have a major deus ex machina — and I’m beginning to suspect he’s a real deus, if you know what I mean — in Richard Alpert. So we learned that Richard was able to use his mumbo jumbo to save Ben’s life but simultaneously cause him to forget Sayid and become the scheming weasel we all know and love today. Genius! Thanks, Richard!

    Yes, it seems convenient, and a little too much of the dialogue in “What Happened, Happened” felt like it was being explained right at us instead of existing in the make-believe world we’ve grown obsessed with, but no matter. Nestor Carbonell, who plays Alpert, is a damn compelling actor and the lighting, sinister music and his intense stare sold the moment. Who would ever have guessed that Hurley and Kate were the two who helped make Ben who he is now.”

    I agree with the fact that hurley and miles just kind of threw the time travel stuff right in our face. when i was watching i was like what! it was just wierd the way they did it. almost makes me think that cant be whats happening if they are just going to lay it out there like that. thats not lost style, i mean i realize we need to know the answers to stuff but i dont want them thrown in our faces like that. also i feel like sawyer is going to do something that jack doesnt like and jack is going to turn back into the character that we know and love. Jack like this is boring im waiting for him to run his hands trough his hair and mess that comb over up and get back to buisness.[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    chica you gotta divide the “quote” from your (original) post.

    I agree with your sawyer comment, but do think that the reason Jack is turned into new Jack is not because new Jack = apathetic dude who would let young boy die BUT we are seeing the first stages of Jack as a “man of faith” as in when he tells Juliet Ben won’t die and says it with an air almost as if HE KNOWS it.

    He will though take the wheel again and stop being simply a passenger…

  253. anotherLOSTfan says:

    I think miss lost is really on to something with comment 239 when she refers to Ben waking up at the end of the episode.

    Regarding the TT, if they all are traveling on their own linear path, then Sayid and the other survivors truly do change the world for the 1977ers. Regardless of “whatever happened, happened,” I think that the last scene of this episode might hint at this possibility of the survivors tweaking with previous realities.

    For this reason, I think that the Ben who wakes up with Locke at the end of WHH is a newer version of our Ben… a Ben that has the experiences with the survivors in 1977. I don’t ascribe to a theory that they had been there (1977) before now. I think that they are all there for the first time. The reason I think that this could be true is because the writers wouldn’t juxtapose that ending scene with this episode for no reason. Even though the scene was short, I think it might hold the key to that episode and also to the true impact of the survivors on the “1977 now.”

    Additionally, I think further evidence of this might be the ongoing discussion between Hurley and Miles. I don’t remember the exact words of Hurley when he finally trumped Miles (and don’t have DVR to replay them). I do think that Hurley sometimes plays the part of the “wise fool” and that his conversation with Miles was much more than comic relief (perhaps this connects to one of Duke’s earlier comments on this convo).

    Anyway, those are my thoughts for now. I’ve been reading this blog for 3 seasons. This is my first post, and I am still processing these thoughts myself. I was as clear as I could be for now.

  254. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326456"][quote comment="326445"]Tasha,

    Sorry for the anger but when I know something happened I do not feel the need to find the proof. I leave that to the person that doesn’t believe.[/quote]

    I am sorry too. I was WRONG. Which sucks because I already read thru it and watched 3 times before I posted that I knew. In all of that I was looking and listening for 30 years and did not see or hear the 3 decade thing.

    It’s all my fault but I guess I was angry about the cursing thing and have kept my mouth shut about it but IMHO I don’t see the need for it. It really SHOULD be a rule up here. Like I said an occasional curse word here and there is one thing. Everybody curses. I have the worst potty mouth in the world, believe me. In my line of work, I don’t include it.

    Anyway, I am not usually like this. It must be in the air or something and I truly am sorry. I hope you can forgive me. It is from lack of sleep I am sure:( Please please please don’t hate me! I am really a sweet little innocent girl at heart![/quote]
    ________________________
    I do not get bent out of shape about anything anybody rights on this blog. No harm done on my part. I only hope you feel the same in return. It is very fun to get all worked though isn’t it? I love it!!!!!!!!!!

  255. Lar says:

    is this ridiculous internet fight over yet? if not, please exchange email addresses and take it offline. there are enough inteligent posts to sort through here without being sidetracked by this crap. sorry for adding to the negativity, but I always appreciated this site for the general sense of respect between the posters, without all the usual internet pettiness

  256. Lostee says:

    Enough! How many posts are you guys going to waste? Rules of this blog… stay on topic… be constructive… be kind and helpful.

    Get back to talking about Lost.

  257. jaime says:

    When Miles was explaining TT to Hurley he said “Ben turned the wheel” How does Miles know about the wheel? Faraday? Locke didn’t mention it to him, Juliet, and Sawyer when he went down the well.

  258. Circus Mom says:

    I am about to read all the posts but I wanted to say now that I loved this epi. I also did a search for keywords to make sure this wasn’t covered yet.

    I think the guy in Dharmaville with the beard is the same guy who was outside the courthouse yelling at Kates trial. Agree? Disagree? Ideas? Hopefully some input by the time I am done reading.

  259. Tasha says:

    Ok DUKE! Not to bring this up again, but the reason I was wrong is because I was watching the enhanced episode over and over. I am good at remembering and dont usually go to LOSTPEDIA unless I really need to. I always go back and watch. So you are telling me when he said it, and I am sitting here watching it and he doesn’t at all in the enhanced version. I pulled up the other version and he does. Has the enhanced episodes always been like that? Crazy. No wonder why it seems like some of us are watching different shows LOL. So in a way we are both right because we are watching different shows? Like I said crazy. I still agree you are right and all but still, it upsets me. It probably seemed like I was lying to you when I say he didn’t say it even though i was watching it.

  260. Jason says:

    [quote comment="326422"]Ok maybe Ben won’t remember after Richard gets done with him. Roger will though as should the other Dharma folk. Roger seemed geniunely concerned about Ben and regretful about his treatment of him. Sometimes it takes a life altering event for someone to change, say like your kid almost dying from a gunshot wound, perhaps. This at first viewing seemed to be a catalyst for Roger to change how he treated young Benjamin but we already know that he continues being an asshole to him. What gives? Also, nobody ever mentions to Ben that when he was say 14 he was shot in the chest by a hostile? Most of this doesn’t make sense. That is just like LOST. GIve me a better understanding of something (time travel) and also at the same time screw with my mind about something else.

    One last thing for know and to my surprise nobody has commented about the gunshot wound. In all the screen caps from last weeks episode it appearred that the hole in his chest was on his left side either directly in his heart area or somewhere close but this week it appears that the wound is on the right side of poor little Benjamin’s chest. Someone please correct me because it would be a major disappointment if the would had been moved to help explain his survival.[/quote]
    Ok, here’s a question. If Ben really doesn’t remember things BEFORE being shot, which it seems like because he says he was “born” on the island, how would he know that Roger was his dad? Did the others tell him this? He clearly was aware who his father was because he gassed him in the Dharma van.

  261. Salmonpink says:

    [quote comment="326328"]… Sawyer told his group that they would wait for the O6 to come back for as long as it took. Jin has been combing the island for the past three years looking for them to show up, and when they do return, it seems to be for nothing. Juliet tells Jack tonight that they didn’t need to be saved. Sawyer acts like they are all a nuisance and getting in the way of the good life he has built himself with Dharma. It just doesn’t make sense to me. …quote]

    I think the Jin and Sawyer, et al have actually been looking for Rose and Bernard’s group for the past 3 years not the O6s that left, in one of the episodes it’s referred to as to why they don’t want to get on the sub right away to have time to “look for their people” IMO. Been reading the blog for about 3 seasons but first post.

  262. Salmonpink says:

    Sorry, quoted incorrectly to shadow’s post-

    I think the Jin and Sawyer, et al have actually been looking for Rose and Bernard’s group for the past 3 years not the O6s that left, in one of the episodes it’s referred to as to why they don’t want to get on the sub right away to have time to “look for their people” IMO. Been reading the blog for about 3 seasons but first post…

  263. Heidi says:

    OKay this is driving me nuts, can SOMEONE please just answer me with what you or anyone thinks.

    Do you think Kate ever really loved Jack? She seemed to in “Something Nice Back Home” but now I am thrown for a loop with all this Sawyer stuff and her ‘needing Aaron’ to cure her heart break over Sawyer. Sense when does Kate “need’ anyone? Isn’t that what her character is all about? I know there is a love triangle between Sawyer Jack and Kate, but now I wonder if Kate was just using Jack subconsciously to get over Sawyer?!????

    Please some insight???? Much thanks!

  264. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="326461"][quote comment="326455"][quote comment="326256"]Okay, all the new posters are silent again. So I am going to do my Bed Time For Bonzo post now and lurk for a while:

    I think that we just saw the entrance for the Temple and Temple is where one becomes enlightened and lose their innocence. The Temple is only for the enlightened ones (Ben said something about the Temple only being for ‘us’.)

    I think Ben losing his innocence is enlightenment and ‘knowing the meaning of life’ in a way. He now know the ‘rules’ of fate and destiny. He now knows he has to do certain things and when they will happen and just have to take it.

    And he always does just take it…until Keamy killed Alex…then he tried to break the rules. He turned the wheel when it wasn’t his turn, it was Locke’s turn. He changed Miles et al’s time line order. And I think he’s either killed Penny or has at least made an effort to which would be a rule breaker according to his conversation with Widmore.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    Hammer, it is of great mystical significance that your BTFB post ended up as number 108…; okay, it’s not significant at all. (grin)

    Anyway, going into the temple takes away one’s innocence. Except for what was in his/her short term memory, an Other knows everything. What a terrible burden….

    8) Jim[/quote]
    *************************

    Do you think maybe you have to be invited into the temple or escorted by someone who is an other? The group with Rousseau was not invited and they went crazy according to Rousseau. Or maybe this is a bit out there..but you know how when people have near death experiences their life literally “flashes” before their eyes? maybe in the temple you have “flashes” of things yet to come…could be tough to have faith in things to come if they are not good and could drive a person crazy?!?
    The temple could possess healing properties but at a cost…the cost of knowing more than one person should know…
    -miss[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I agree that you have to be escorted; invited might not be good enough because the initial exposure to the — for lack of a better term — the wonders (flashes?) may be too much. The French challenged the sanctity of the Temple by walking too close. The flashes take away your short term memory (Ben remembers the DHARMA people, including Roger, Annie and, vaguely, Juliet). He was (re-)born on the Island.

    8) Jim

  265. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326480"]I am about to read all the posts but I wanted to say now that I loved this epi. I also did a search for keywords to make sure this wasn’t covered yet.

    I think the guy in Dharmaville with the beard is the same guy who was outside the courthouse yelling at Kates trial. Agree? Disagree? Ideas? Hopefully some input by the time I am done reading.[/quote]
    ***************************************************
    Interesting theory….can we get screen caps of all three. Who out there is a good screen cap detective?

  266. bananahands says:

    [quote comment="326283"]I have a question similar to Lost4ever’s last one. Other than the assertions from Ben and Locke, do we know why the O6 were not supposed to leave the island in the first place? One of the things I’m having the most trouble with is the premise that they have to go back to do (fill in the blank) because they were never supposed to leave. Well what was so wrong with them leaving? Why would that throw the timeline off if it was done in “present” time? Apologies if this is canon-esque at this point and I’ve just missed it — i’m new to the site. :)[/quote]
    I believe they have to go back so that all of things that happened to the dharama initiative will actually happen. They caused or played a part in the demise of dharma and by them leaving changed that which is why they had to go back. confused yet?

  267. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326484"]OKay this is driving me nuts, can SOMEONE please just answer me with what you or anyone thinks.

    Do you think Kate ever really loved Jack? She seemed to in “Something Nice Back Home” but now I am thrown for a loop with all this Sawyer stuff and her ‘needing Aaron’ to cure her heart break over Sawyer. Sense when does Kate “need’ anyone? Isn’t that what her character is all about? I know there is a love triangle between Sawyer Jack and Kate, but now I wonder if Kate was just using Jack subconsciously to get over Sawyer?!????

    Please some insight???? Much thanks![/quote]

    _________

    I think she really loves Sawyer. I think she cares alot for Jack, but I don’t think IMO she acts like she loves him. I am not really sure.

  268. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="326477"]When Miles was explaining TT to Hurley he said “Ben turned the wheel” How does Miles know about the wheel? Faraday? Locke didn’t mention it to him, Juliet, and Sawyer when he went down the well.[/quote]

    Hmmm… And did Hurley say, “What wheel?” How would Hurley know what the “wheel” was?

  269. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="326266"][quote comment="326254"]“Duty Assignments(?):”

    High Priest(?): Richard Alpert
    Leaders: Charles Widmore and Eloise “Ellie” Hawking

    “I don’t answer to them.” – Richard

    The Temple isn’t all that close to DHARMAville; how did Richard get there so quickly? Not in terms of the episode period, but in terms of having a bleeding kid in his arms.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    Leaders ( plural ), I like it. Although it is not confirmed, I thought so from what Ben told Hurley about the Purge.

    So if Ellie is on the island still in 1977, IMO, there are 2 options. Either she is not Faraday’s mother or Faraday was born on the island. I am leaning toward the latter because I think they pretty much told us that she was his mother.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    This is one of things where some people want an absolute declaration of fact; the wan Ms. Hawking to hold her hand up and say, “I am Daniel’s mother.” Don’t hold your breath.

    Daniel was in his late-twenties/early-thirties at Oxford in 1996. So call his birth year late-sixties/early-seventies.

    If Ellie is Ms. Hawking and is on the Island in ’77 then little Danny is there; Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds but neither does Theresa.

    8) Jim

  270. jaime says:

    Was that Patsy Cline’s She’s Got You playing in Kate’s car when she first went to see Cassidy to deliver Sawyers message and money? I seem to remember that song on another episode. Anyone know what ep this might be?

  271. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="326277"][quote comment="326265"][quote comment="326242"][quote comment="326238"]I caught the Charles part, but who was the other person Richard doesn’t answer to, Ellie?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I thought I heard “Nealy” or something like that.[/quote]

    I thought I heard “Healey” but Ellie makes more sense.

    So whatever Richard does to heal Ben will erase his memory of being shot, which was the one hole in Miles’ time travel theory.

    BTW, I was loving that conversation between Miles and Hurley. I kept on saying, “This is exactly what we’ve been talking about on the blogs!”[/quote]
    ____

    And that little “huh” that both of them said at the end of the convo. That’s what I say out loud whenever someone throws a theory out there that is different than mine. I am like “huh. Didn’t think about that.” Then the wheels start turning again lol.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I loved the look of satisfaction on Hurley’s face. “I won an argument!”

    8) Jim

  272. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="326297"][quote comment="326290"][quote comment="326285"]

    Btw, it does NOT sit well with me that she left Aaron sleeping alone in the motel room, even if it was two doors down. After nearly losing him at the grocery store, she wouldn’t have wanted to let him out of her sight – especially if she knew she was “giving him away” shortly. I realize it was probably a kid-actor-time-limit thing, but that kind of thing really BUGS me!

    : ) P[/quote]
    _____

    Um, I was thinking it was stupid at that point. Who leaves a little boy in a hotel room? What if grandma isn’t ready yet? They could have let grandma walk in after Kate left so we know for sure that he is safe. Now I am worried for Aaron:([/quote]

    * * * * *

    I don’t think we can write Dan Norton out of the picture, not to mention Gabriel and Jeffrey.

    8) Jim

  273. Mr. $tuart says:

    I almost crapped a $1.35 in nickels when I heard Ben whisper, “Help me.” Freaking awesome.

  274. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326479"]Ok DUKE! Not to bring this up again, but the reason I was wrong is because I was watching the enhanced episode over and over. I am good at remembering and dont usually go to LOSTPEDIA unless I really need to. I always go back and watch. So you are telling me when he said it, and I am sitting here watching it and he doesn’t at all in the enhanced version. I pulled up the other version and he does. Has the enhanced episodes always been like that? Crazy. No wonder why it seems like some of us are watching different shows LOL. So in a way we are both right because we are watching different shows? Like I said crazy. I still agree you are right and all but still, it upsets me. It probably seemed like I was lying to you when I say he didn’t say it even though i was watching it.[/quote]
    _____________________
    Hmmmmm…that is disconcerting. But I can imagine they do make some edits for the enhanced episodes. Frequently, the first-run episodes run for 1:02 or so including commercials. The enhanced episodes run for exactly 1:00 including commercials. So I can imagine they would have to chop 2 minutes out of those episodes, because they certainly aren’t going to cut down on commercials.

  275. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326324"]- Can someone tell me how many more episodes left in this season,thx.

    – last 2 episodes were more filler than substance IMO.

    – “Ellie” when young is the cute blonde chick with alpert during the “jughead” episode and obviously has a romance with young widmore to produce dan faraday on island,thoughts?[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    I am still of the opinion that Ellie and Widmore are brother and sister. Tonight I thought possibly twins.

  276. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326463"]
    Example; when Sayid shoots Ben he doesn’t even bother to put another bullet in him or even check to see if he’s dead. He also leaves behind the walkie talkie which he could have used to monitor the people who will be hunting for him. These are NOT the actions of someone with Sayid’s smarts and training.[/quote]

    Agreed. Sayid’s taking Ilana “home” with him and then being bested by her weren’t in his character either. I think we’re meant to see how much the characters have been changed by their three years.

    : ) P

  277. Frank says:

    And how are Sawyer and Kate going to explain to the Dharmaites what they just did???

  278. Amber says:

    ok i just have a hard time understanding what miles was saying. when he says it all happened before i just dont get it. Happened before when? how were they ever in the 70’s before now? I mean we saw all of there flash backs so they had a whole life before the island….so how were they there before! is it just this part of there life that is on a loop? Do they get to a certian point and then it starts over with them crashing and starting over again and ending up in the 70’s again? and if so why dont they remember? can someone help me out

  279. Skweez says:

    [quote comment="326463"]The new episode was terrible.
    I’ve really had it with things that happen where a character acts so out of synch with how we would really expect them to act.
    Example; when Sayid shoots Ben he doesn’t even bother to put another bullet in him or even check to see if he’s dead. He also leaves behind the walkie talkie which he could have used to monitor the people who will be hunting for him. These are NOT the actions of someone with Sayid’s smarts and training.
    And why would Sawyer and Kate even care what happens to little Ben? I’m with the Doc on this one…let him croak.
    But it was a nice touch to try and make Ben’s father seem a little more human.
    I’m really wanting to find out more about the Others and now Alpert has appeared again…and takes Ben to heal him.
    It was quite weird for Alpert to say Ben would lose his innocence. What the hell? He’s gonna get well then they take him to a whore house? Odd choice of words.[/quote]

    ****************

    I’m with you and adapa1.

    This episode not only sucked, but it wasted precious minutes if the few hours we have left in the series. Did we really have to watch 30 minutes of tape to see what Kate did with Aaron? Are we really to believe that Sayid and Jack are the only ones with enough sense to let Ben die?

    It seems to me that once the powers that be went with the TT road, they screwed up big time. I’ve heard many times from Damon and Carlton that this place is not purgatory. But now it seems that the remaining 25 hours or so will not live up to how great the show could have been. At this point, purgatory may have been the way to go.

    I respect everyones thoughts/opinions/theories but I must say that this is no way was a GREAT epsiode. OK at best, but then again, maybe getting answers like Sawyer telling Kate to take care of Clementine is the equivalent of what’s the deal with Guyliner or the Smokemonster or Jacob. Maybe it’s all relative and most of our questions will be answered, just not in the fashion we would prefer. I honestly thought about waiting to the remainder of this season and next season was available on Netflix. But then i thought about how I wouldn’t be able to stop myself from lurking on this blog, so I might as well grind it out.

  280. RGS says:

    Isn’t it a bit of a leap to assume that Richard appears out of nowhere, or that he is somehow anticipating that he is needed? Sawyer and Kate were surrounded by perhaps a dozen Others, couldn’t one of them have run ahead and let Richard know what was up?

    I state that because although Richard is mysterious, there are things that he doesn’t seem to understand or have yet to be revealed to him, I even have doubts that he is a TT. In fact I’m almost positive he isn’t otherwise it is an extremely sloppy depiction of his character, because if he is able to TT, surely he would have done so to get a handle on all the strangeness that surrounds the Losties. From Locke disappearing in front of his eyes, to Sawyer’s knowledge of the H-bomb and now the delivering of a child shot by Dharma folks (as far as he would be concerned).

    Any take on that would be appreciated.

  281. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326469"]I agree with the fact that hurley and miles just kind of threw the time travel stuff right in our face. when i was watching i was like what! it was just wierd the way they did it. almost makes me think that cant be whats happening if they are just going to lay it out there like that. thats not lost style, i mean i realize we need to know the answers to stuff but i dont want them thrown in our faces like that.[/quote]

    I understand how you feel. I didn’t really see it as new information, but more as Hurley acting as the Greek Chorus, asking the questions that viewers have and Miles clarifying it. In the end, I was just thrilled that SOMEONE was asking QUESTIONS about all the STUFF that is going on!

    : ) P

  282. doodle says:

    Very surprised this hasn’t been talked about. Was the man in the grocery store that Kate asked if he saw Aron one of the people from 316? He was stocking shelves Garcia maybe, I forget his name.

  283. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326505"]ok i just have a hard time understanding what miles was saying. when he says it all happened before i just dont get it. Happened before when? how were they ever in the 70’s before now? I mean we saw all of there flash backs so they had a whole life before the island….so how were they there before! is it just this part of there life that is on a loop? Do they get to a certian point and then it starts over with them crashing and starting over again and ending up in the 70’s again? and if so why dont they remember? can someone help me out[/quote]

    Read slugdog’s post 171. It is well explained there.

    : ) P

  284. Heidi says:

    Thanks Tasha, its nice to get input on what others think too

  285. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="326508"]Isn’t it a bit of a leap to assume that Richard appears out of nowhere, or that he is somehow anticipating that he is needed? Sawyer and Kate were surrounded by perhaps a dozen Others, couldn’t one of them have run ahead and let Richard know what was up?

    I state that because although Richard is mysterious, there are things that he doesn’t seem to understand or have yet to be revealed to him, I even have doubts that he is a TT. In fact I’m almost positive he isn’t otherwise it is an extremely sloppy depiction of his character, because if he is able to TT, surely he would have done so to get a handle on all the strangeness that surrounds the Losties. From Locke disappearing in front of his eyes, to Sawyer’s knowledge of the H-bomb and now the delivering of a child shot by Dharma folks (as far as he would be concerned).

    Any take on that would be appreciated.[/quote]
    **********************
    He may not have tt (but i think he can somehow)BUT when the group that remained on the island were flashing thru time Richard made a point to tell Locke that he was going to die and gave him the compass…he has to know something…and when he was talking to Locke he told him they had to hurry b/c they didn’t have much time before the next flash…Richard is special, just not sure why…

  286. LOSTfantoo says:

    IMO many different time-lines are running parallel. “Old” Ben was hurt a few eps back when John went to see him and we had no idea why…he was relatively OK after the plan crashed. Could it have been because he was shot in 77’? In that same time-line, Kate and Jim LaFleur handed Ben over to Richard. After they enter the temple, the “Old” Ben (different timeline) woke up to John Locke at his side. The different time-lines are happening at the same time and they are jumping from one to the other. Plausible?

  287. LOSTfantoo says:

    IMO many different time-lines are running parallel. “Old” Ben was hurt a few eps back when John went to see him and we had no idea why…he was relatively OK after the plane crashed. Could it have been because he was shot in 77’? In that same time-line, Kate and Jim LaFleur handed Ben over to Richard. After they enter the temple, the “Old” Ben (different time-line) woke up to John Locke at his side. The different time-lines are happening at the same time and they are jumping from one to the other. Plausible?

  288. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326484"]
    Do you think Kate ever really loved Jack? She seemed to in “Something Nice Back Home” but now I am thrown for a loop with all this Sawyer stuff and her ‘needing Aaron’ to cure her heart break over Sawyer. Sense when does Kate “need’ anyone? Isn’t that what her character is all about? I know there is a love triangle between Sawyer Jack and Kate, but now I wonder if Kate was just using Jack subconsciously to get over Sawyer?[/quote]

    My take: Kate WANTED to love Jack because he was the *right* guy – nice job, kind, cares for people, a hero. She was DRAWN to Sawyer – chemisty, biology, whatever.

    On the island, especially in the early days, Sawyer wasn’t just rough, he was kind of mean. Kate, who’d been roughed up a bit in her life, liked how nice Jack was. He was the cutest boy at summer camp, so good, they got together.

    Sawyer changes a bit and she can’t resist the attraction.

    Off island, Jack and Kate have a shared life-experience that few can understand. It is natural for them to be drawn to each other. Was Kate using Jack to get over Sawyer? Probably so, even if not consciously. She must feel a lot of guilt about what he did to save her, them all. Had Sawyer made it off-island, who knows.

    That’s my psych-eval on Kate. Sorry you asked? LOL

    : ) P

  289. LINS says:

    I’m wondering, since Ben will apparently not remember anything from his past, aka, the Losties that are currently living in Dharmaville, when he returns to Dharmaville – because he has to return, we saw him there as a workman and he kills his father in the purge – perhaps the Losties leaving and Widmore/Ellie leaving happen for the same reason, at the same time? Perhaps when/if Widmore and Ellie turn the wheel and leave, the Losties are transported to current time, 2007/2008? Maybe that’s how they end up with Sun and Frank and Locke and all that?

  290. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326447"]
    WIDMORE: They’re not the “Others” to me. They’re my people. We protected the Island peacefully for more than three decades. But then I was exiled… by him… just as you were.[/quote]
    [quote comment="326450"]Oops! Forgot this part too

    WIDMORE: Well, that’s the exit. I was afraid Benjamin might fool you into leaving the Island, as he did with me. I was their leader.[/quote]
    Exactly. He states to Locke ( what island leader doesn’t lie to Locke ), that he was their leader, which I have no doubt he was, for a period of time. It is not stated he was their leader for 30 years. He helped “protect” the island for more than 3 decade., IMO, that doesn’t mean he was the leader the WHOLE time, he was there, that’s all.

  291. jaime says:

    So why can’t they get the doctor from the Looking Glass? Any ideas?

  292. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326524"]So why can’t they get the doctor from the Looking Glass? Any ideas?[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    And who could it be? Might we say…dun dun dun Christian Shepherd. Possible?

  293. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]
    You asked, so I replied. You may think Widmore was the leader of the island for 30 years, I do not, as I reasoned in comment 290. I do agree that you would think the leader would be on the island. Why did they ask about Ellie first though and not Widmore?

  294. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326526"][quote comment="326524"]So why can’t they get the doctor from the Looking Glass? Any ideas?

    And who could it be? Might we say…dun dun dun Christian Shepherd. Possible?[/quote]

    * * * *

    Oooh. I like it!

    As far as why they can’t get him until Friday, I dunno. I thought maybe it had something to do with the sub – but that is gone for months.

    : ) P

  295. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326527"][quote comment="326423"][quote comment="326417"][quote comment="326410"] If anyone has knowledge of them being able to leave the island in the 1970’s or before then you can feel free to blow my theory out of the water. [/quote]
    Well, we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956, so why wouldn’t Ellie or Widmore be able to leave?

    And regarding that whole convo, who is to say either of them were currently on the island.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    Why would they be mentioned as not being happy about richard’s actions if they weren’t on the island. Widmore did say he was leader for thirty years and 1977 would have been 23 from the 1954 date. Presumably the leader needs to be on the island to lead. Yes we did see Richard visit Locke in 1956 but I take this as him being somewhat special given the fact that he hasn’t aged in fifty some odd years. We have no evidence of anyone leaving the island except for Richard then. There you happy now?[/quote]
    You asked, so I replied. You may think Widmore was the leader of the island for 30 years, I do not, as I reasoned in comment 290. I do agree that you would think the leader would be on the island. Why did they ask about Ellie first though and not Widmore?[/quote]
    *****************************************

    Could be a similar situation as Horace and the DeGroots. They are supposedly in Ann Arbor.

  296. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326529"][quote comment="326526"][quote comment="326524"]So why can’t they get the doctor from the Looking Glass? Any ideas?

    And who could it be? Might we say…dun dun dun Christian Shepherd. Possible?[/quote]

    * * * *

    Oooh. I like it!

    As far as why they can’t get him until Friday, I dunno. I thought maybe it had something to do with the sub – but that is gone for months.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ***********************************
    Or possible ascending problems…how would one get back up from the Looking Glass? We’ve only seen how Charlie got down and that is by no means practical or safe. Scuba?

  297. Steve says:

    I saw the Duke noticed the same thing about little Ben’s gun shot that I did. The hole was Clearly placed about 1″ above the sternum just to the left of the centerline. (Next to the zipper)in He’s Our You, and in an entirely different region on the right side in WHH. Hard to explain.

  298. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326508"]

    I state that because although Richard is mysterious, there are things that he doesn’t seem to understand or have yet to be revealed to him, I even have doubts that he is a TT. In fact I’m almost positive he isn’t otherwise it is an extremely sloppy depiction of his character, because if he is able to TT, surely he would have done so to get a handle on all the strangeness that surrounds the Losties. From Locke disappearing in front of his eyes, to Sawyer’s knowledge of the H-bomb and now the delivering of a child shot by Dharma folks (as far as he would be concerned).

    Any take on that would be appreciated.[/quote]
    I too don’t think he is a time-traveler. In fact, I am not sure if he was aware of the possibility until he met John Locke in 1954.

  299. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326479"]Ok DUKE! Not to bring this up again, but the reason I was wrong is because I was watching the enhanced episode over and over. I am good at remembering and dont usually go to LOSTPEDIA unless I really need to. I always go back and watch. So you are telling me when he said it, and I am sitting here watching it and he doesn’t at all in the enhanced version. I pulled up the other version and he does. Has the enhanced episodes always been like that? Crazy. No wonder why it seems like some of us are watching different shows LOL. So in a way we are both right because we are watching different shows? Like I said crazy. I still agree you are right and all but still, it upsets me. It probably seemed like I was lying to you when I say he didn’t say it even though i was watching it.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Tasha

    I think that they had to cut about 5-7 minutes from the enhanced version because that episode ran long and they couldn’t run it long the second time around. Again no big deal I love getting fired up and enjoy the back and forth with people who can take it like youhave demonstrated you are able to do. You are now in my fave five. LOL

  300. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326490"][quote comment="326266"][quote comment="326254"]“Duty Assignments(?):”

    High Priest(?): Richard Alpert
    Leaders: Charles Widmore and Eloise “Ellie” Hawking

    “I don’t answer to them.” – Richard

    The Temple isn’t all that close to DHARMAville; how did Richard get there so quickly? Not in terms of the episode period, but in terms of having a bleeding kid in his arms.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    Leaders ( plural ), I like it. Although it is not confirmed, I thought so from what Ben told Hurley about the Purge.

    So if Ellie is on the island still in 1977, IMO, there are 2 options. Either she is not Faraday’s mother or Faraday was born on the island. I am leaning toward the latter because I think they pretty much told us that she was his mother.[/quote]

    * * * * *

    This is one of things where some people want an absolute declaration of fact; the wan Ms. Hawking to hold her hand up and say, “I am Daniel’s mother.” Don’t hold your breath.

    Daniel was in his late-twenties/early-thirties at Oxford in 1996. So call his birth year late-sixties/early-seventies.

    If Ellie is Ms. Hawking and is on the Island in ’77 then little Danny is there; Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds but neither does Theresa.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Theresa did not time travel like the losties. Her subconcious travelled which has put her in the condition that she is in like Daniel’s rat. If you believe the almighty Daniel he related the nosebleeds to time spent on the island therefore if he was born on th eisland and spent time their by his own logic he would have experienced the same symptoms as Charlotte and Miles because they had spent time on the island before. YOu cannot use Theresa as an example because her case was different. If you want to use Daniel’s logic and him being the end all be all then use it all the time not just when it suits your purpose.

  301. Duke says:

    Also to add to my last post there is no way that Daniel in 2007 when he is on the freighter is about 41 years of age. I guess he could be if he had some extensive work done botox and a face lift perhaps.

  302. Duke says:

    Also no one is questioning Juliet being a doctor now. One day she is working on some sweet vans the next she is delivering babies and trying to save innocent little Ben from a gun shot. Give me a break.

  303. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326526"][quote comment="326524"]So why can’t they get the doctor from the Looking Glass? Any ideas?[/quote]
    ***********************************************

    And who could it be? Might we say…dun dun dun Christian Shepherd. Possible?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I LOVE IT!!! That would explain a few things.
    I hope you turn out to be right.

  304. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326551"]Also no one is questioning Juliet being a doctor now. One day she is working on some sweet vans the next she is delivering babies and trying to save innocent little Ben from a gun shot. Give me a break.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I was actually wondering about this too. What was Sawyer going to say about Jack the janitor, whose aptitude tests placed him there, now performing major surgery?

  305. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326554"][quote comment="326551"]Also no one is questioning Juliet being a doctor now. One day she is working on some sweet vans the next she is delivering babies and trying to save innocent little Ben from a gun shot. Give me a break.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I was actually wondering about this too. What was Sawyer going to say about Jack the janitor, whose aptitude tests placed him there, now performing major surgery?[/quote]
    _____

    Where was everyone when Juliet and Kate loaded Ben in the van? A child had been shot, you would think other people would be a little concerned. Usually the place is swarming with people everywhere. Or did I miss something?

  306. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326556"][quote comment="326554"][quote comment="326551"]Also no one is questioning Juliet being a doctor now. One day she is working on some sweet vans the next she is delivering babies and trying to save innocent little Ben from a gun shot. Give me a break.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I was actually wondering about this too. What was Sawyer going to say about Jack the janitor, whose aptitude tests placed him there, now performing major surgery?[/quote]
    _____

    Where was everyone when Juliet and Kate loaded Ben in the van? A child had been shot, you would think other people would be a little concerned. Usually the place is swarming with people everywhere. Or did I miss something?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I guess they were all at their “battle stations” or whatever they would call them – they had just been “attacked from within” (the burning bus) and were out looking for Sayid and the Hostiles.

  307. poopy pants says:

    Richard is the SmokeMonster/The SmokeMonster is Richard IMO,thoughts?

  308. Circus Mom says:

    Hey everyone, I would like to ask us all to use the quote and reply more sparingly or to delete from the reply anything in the quote that isn’t needed. Some of these posts with quotes are getting to be pages long.

    Thanks to all who are willing.

  309. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326493"]I almost crapped a $1.35 in nickels when I heard Ben whisper, “Help me.” Freaking awesome.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Just like Jacob said to Lock in the cabin.

  310. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326529"][quote comment="326526"][quote comment="326524"]So why can’t they get the doctor from the Looking Glass? Any ideas?

    And who could it be? Might we say…dun dun dun Christian Shepherd. Possible?[/quote]

    * * * *

    Oooh. I like it!

    As far as why they can’t get him until Friday, I dunno. I thought maybe it had something to do with the sub – but that is gone for months.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Sawyer would know it was Jacks father. Remember, he met Christian in Australia and figured out who he was when Jack quoted Christians comment about the Sox winning the penant. I think it is the doc that couldn’t deliver Ethan.

  311. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326550"]Also to add to my last post there is no way that Daniel in 2007 when he is on the freighter is about 41 years of age. I guess he could be if he had some extensive work done botox and a face lift perhaps.[/quote]
    The freighter was in 2004.

  312. Herkey says:

    I would like to know how Juliette knew the Other’s could save Ben? Does she know about the islands healing power? A few weeks ago it was discussed that she knows more than she lets on, myabe this confirms that.

  313. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326571"]I would like to know how Juliette knew the Other’s could save Ben? Does she know about the islands healing power? A few weeks ago it was discussed that she knows more than she lets on, myabe this confirms that.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Well, Juliet spent three years living as an Other – she IS an Other, so she knows what they are and can do.

  314. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326571"]I would like to know how Juliette knew the Other’s could save Ben? Does she know about the islands healing power? A few weeks ago it was discussed that she knows more than she lets on, myabe this confirms that.[/quote]

    Good point. Of course, Juliet and Sawyer (et al) have had three years since Sawyer and Alpert’s private tete-a-tete after Paul’s death. Who knows how many times they’ve worked together during that three years?

    : ) P

  315. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326572"]
    Well, Juliet spent three years living as an Other – she IS an Other, so she knows what they are and can do.[/quote]

    True, but wasn’t she a Ben Other versus an Alpert Other? What I mean is that there were two kinds of Others… those that lived in the DHARMA barracks and had a “mainstream” society working in the DHARMA stations, with book club, and therapists, runway building, and science and medical experiments (though they were NOT DHARMA). The other Others were the former “hostiles” that were seemingly nomadic and followed Alpert (possible Whisperers). Ben floated between the two groups, but I saw them as definitively TWO groups.

    : ) P

  316. Herkey says:

    [quote comment="326576"][quote comment="326572"]
    Well, Juliet spent three years living as an Other – she IS an Other, so she knows what they are and can do.[/quote]

    True, but wasn’t she a Ben Other versus an Alpert Other? What I mean is that there were two kinds of Others… those that lived in the DHARMA barracks and had a “mainstream” society working in the DHARMA stations, with book club, and therapists, runway building, and science and medical experiments (though they were NOT DHARMA). The other Others were the former “hostiles” that were seemingly nomadic and followed Alpert (possible Whisperers). Ben floated between the two groups, but I saw them as definitively TWO groups.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I agree. Two sperate goups. New Others vs. Old Others. Still seems strange to me.

  317. Herkey says:

    [quote comment="326577"][quote comment="326576"][quote comment="326572"]
    Well, Juliet spent three years living as an Other – she IS an Other, so she knows what they are and can do.[/quote]

    True, but wasn’t she a Ben Other versus an Alpert Other? What I mean is that there were two kinds of Others… those that lived in the DHARMA barracks and had a “mainstream” society working in the DHARMA stations, with book club, and therapists, runway building, and science and medical experiments (though they were NOT DHARMA). The other Others were the former “hostiles” that were seemingly nomadic and followed Alpert (possible Whisperers). Ben floated between the two groups, but I saw them as definitively TWO groups.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I agree. Two sperate goups. New Others vs. Old Others. Still seems strange to me.[/quote]
    Also she has said in the past that Ben doesn’t tell her everything.

  318. slugdoc says:

    [quote comment="326419"]

    Although I do agree that a little patience is warranted, I really did have an issue with Juliette acting like she did. “We didn’t need saving?” Yeah, you did as far as anyone outside that island would know…you were skipping through time and having nose bleeds, dropping like flies, and Locke said in order to save you he’d have to bring back the other folks…that was the last transmission you got as he lowered himself into the belly of the beast. Why would she assume that they would know they were ok?[/quote]

    Hear, hear!
    This episode actually had a lot of people saying stuff that they couldn’t possibly know.

    Like, I found Cassie’s opinionating on Sawyer’s true motives very annoying. Kate was there with him, when it happened, but she’ll believe Cassie, who clearly has a strong anti-Sawyer bias, when she says, “Well, Sawyer was going to go back to mainland with you, but when he saw the helicopter was going to crash, he must have thought to himself, ‘Do I want to live with this women for the rest of my life? Here’s a perfect opportunity for me to escape that life! I will kill myself and look like a hero in the process!”

    Come on.

    Even if Sawyer was wanting to leave Kate, he’d go back to the mainland and then leave her, not jump off the helicopter just for the sake of it.

    Sawyer had no idea the helicopter was going to leak fuel, he was on it planning to get off the island.

    So I think Cassie was just being pissy.

  319. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326420"]First time commenter.

    What I really liked was the idea that Jack wouldn’t help Ben, which makes it appear that Ben is goner. But in reality, Jack’s refusal to help is what necessitates Kate taking him to Richard and setting up his alliance with the Others. What if Jack had stepped in to save Ben? I suppose there would have to have been a course correction to ultimately get Ben to the Others anyway.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    I agree, course correction. Sayid changed something by acting and Jack’s inaction corrected it.

  320. slugdoc says:

    [quote comment="326441"][quote comment="326438"]The only thing I would have like to see is some hint that the characters are concerned or thinking about where Faraday and Rose and Bernard are. I don’t need to know where they are–but it feels sloppy not having the characters say something about it.[/quote]

    I agree. It all goes back to the LOSTies never TALKING about anything – what is that freaky sound in the jungle? why polar bears? why 108 minutes? what is the black smoke? how did the black rock get there? I mean, if I were STUCK on an island for even ten hours, I think I would be sitting in a circle with other people just looking around at all the weird stuff and TALKING about it.

    But NOW, I think it goes past not quite “right” and edges on really “wrong” that they aren’t asking questions. I can ALMOST buy that they’re not talking about the weird STUFF, but not talking about people they came to know, and even care about? SURELY one of the four characters “new” to 1977 would have asked if ANYONE else survived and where they were. Sawyer threw off a comment about Daniel, shouldn’t SOMEONE have asked more? Those are the kinds of things that bug me.

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think they have those conversations during all that “black hole” time that they don’t show us.
    When they are also hunting boar, gathering fruits and water, pooping, etc…

    Handy, that “black hole” time.

  321. slugdoc says:

    Re: two groups of Others

    Hypothesis:
    Group I – Ben’s group took over dharmaville, and lives there looking and acting just like the DI did. (But w/o the jumpsuits, and he, why is all the dharma food still coming to them after their not-bloodless coup?)

    Group II – Alpert’s group, hanging out in the forest.

    Inconsistency – Alpert was the one going to the mainland, recruiting people (Juliette) to Ben’s group.

    I think there was just one group, but Alpert does his own thing.

  322. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326585"]Re: two groups of Others

    Hypothesis:
    Group I – Ben’s group took over dharmaville, and lives there looking and acting just like the DI did. (But w/o the jumpsuits, and he, why is all the dharma food still coming to them after their not-bloodless coup?)

    Group II – Alpert’s group, hanging out in the forest.

    Inconsistency – Alpert was the one going to the mainland, recruiting people (Juliette) to Ben’s group.

    I think there was just one group, but Alpert does his own thing.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    I am in the mind set of one group with different categories: Recruited Others and Island Natives…cohabitating.

  323. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326568"][quote comment="326493"]I almost crapped a $1.35 in nickels when I heard Ben whisper, “Help me.” Freaking awesome.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Just like Jacob said to Lock in the cabin.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Great point…don’t know if means anything, but I bet it does.

    BTW, the crapping nickels comment…haaalarious….where did you come up with that number? 27 nickels? LOL.

  324. Jason says:

    Anyone want to respond to #260? Just curious as to what people think. I very rarely post on here. I guess no one probably reads mine anyway when I do. It’s no big deal. I really enjoy reading what other have to say. I’m actually rewatching season 3. Getting ready to watch an episode now.

  325. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326481"]Ok, here’s a question. If Ben really doesn’t remember things BEFORE being shot, which it seems like because he says he was “born” on the island, how would he know that Roger was his dad? Did the others tell him this? He clearly was aware who his father was because he gassed him in the Dharma van.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    I read your posts.

    Didn’t he say that Ben wouldn’t remember any of ‘this’…not that he wouldn’t remember ‘anything’?

    IMO, Since we know that he doesn’t do the purge until he is an adult, he is sent back to live in DHARMAVILLE. Dad is still a drunk and says horrible things and treats Ben poorly.

    I still think that Ben doesn’t think he was literally born on the island. The new Ben was on the island ‘all his (new)life’.

  326. lola says:

    [quote comment="326408"]Before reading the comments I want to explain why I think this episode exemplified how great LOST has always been. This episode filled in so many blanks it was ridiculous. What happened to Aaron answered. What did Sawyer ask Kate to do answered. Althought these two items were fairly predictable it was still exciting to get the confirmation on these two highly debated questions. The greatest thing, to me, because I already thought the Aaron and Sawyer questions were predictable, was Hurley and Miles. Hurley was essentially playing the role of us. The LOST fans. He asked every question that we all had been pondering from the beginning of this season and Miles answered most of them. When it came down to the BIG question Hurley asked about the time travelling paradox we get the always mysterious Richard to sum it up very nicely. He stated that he would help poor little Ben but that Ben would not remember it. Great stuff.

    While watching the Hurley/Miles back and forth I literally laughed out loud as visions went passing through my brain. I imagined Hurley being all the LOST fans and Hammer playing the role of Miles getting upset because no one could understand the what happened happened scenerio and then finally being stumped and sorta throwing his hands in the air and stomping away when he had no explanation. Funny stuff, very funny stuff.[/quote]
    ———————————-
    the 1 question hurley didn’t ask miles, that i’d still like to know, is why did miles come to the island?

  327. Jason says:

    [quote comment="326590"][quote comment="326481"]Ok, here’s a question. If Ben really doesn’t remember things BEFORE being shot, which it seems like because he says he was “born” on the island, how would he know that Roger was his dad? Did the others tell him this? He clearly was aware who his father was because he gassed him in the Dharma van.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    I read your posts.

    Didn’t he say that Ben wouldn’t remember any of ‘this’…not that he wouldn’t remember ‘anything’?

    IMO, Since we know that he doesn’t do the purge until he is an adult, he is sent back to live in DHARMAVILLE. Dad is still a drunk and says horrible things and treats Ben poorly.

    I still think that Ben doesn’t think he was literally born on the island. The new Ben was on the island ‘all his (new)life’.[/quote]
    Thanks, that makes sense.

  328. lola says:

    [quote comment="326408"]Before reading the comments I want to explain why I think this episode exemplified how great LOST has always been. This episode filled in so many blanks it was ridiculous. What happened to Aaron answered. What did Sawyer ask Kate to do answered. Althought these two items were fairly predictable it was still exciting to get the confirmation on these two highly debated questions. The greatest thing, to me, because I already thought the Aaron and Sawyer questions were predictable, was Hurley and Miles. Hurley was essentially playing the role of us. The LOST fans. He asked every question that we all had been pondering from the beginning of this season and Miles answered most of them. When it came down to the BIG question Hurley asked about the time travelling paradox we get the always mysterious Richard to sum it up very nicely. He stated that he would help poor little Ben but that Ben would not remember it. Great stuff.

    While watching the Hurley/Miles back and forth I literally laughed out loud as visions went passing through my brain. I imagined Hurley being all the LOST fans and Hammer playing the role of Miles getting upset because no one could understand the what happened happened scenerio and then finally being stumped and sorta throwing his hands in the air and stomping away when he had no explanation. Funny stuff, very funny stuff.[/quote]
    [quote comment="326408"]Before reading the comments I want to explain why I think this episode exemplified how great LOST has always been. This episode filled in so many blanks it was ridiculous. What happened to Aaron answered. What did Sawyer ask Kate to do answered. Althought these two items were fairly predictable it was still exciting to get the confirmation on these two highly debated questions. The greatest thing, to me, because I already thought the Aaron and Sawyer questions were predictable, was Hurley and Miles. Hurley was essentially playing the role of us. The LOST fans. He asked every question that we all had been pondering from the beginning of this season and Miles answered most of them. When it came down to the BIG question Hurley asked about the time travelling paradox we get the always mysterious Richard to sum it up very nicely. He stated that he would help poor little Ben but that Ben would not remember it. Great stuff.

    While watching the Hurley/Miles back and forth I literally laughed out loud as visions went passing through my brain. I imagined Hurley being all the LOST fans and Hammer playing the role of Miles getting upset because no one could understand the what happened happened scenerio and then finally being stumped and sorta throwing his hands in the air and stomping away when he had no explanation. Funny stuff, very funny stuff.[/quote]
    ———————————-
    the 1 question hurley didn’t ask miles, that i’d still like to know, is why did miles come to the island?

  329. lola says:

    [quote comment="326408"]Before reading the comments I want to explain why I think this episode exemplified how great LOST has always been. This episode filled in so many blanks it was ridiculous. What happened to Aaron answered. What did Sawyer ask Kate to do answered. Althought these two items were fairly predictable it was still exciting to get the confirmation on these two highly debated questions. The greatest thing, to me, because I already thought the Aaron and Sawyer questions were predictable, was Hurley and Miles. Hurley was essentially playing the role of us. The LOST fans. He asked every question that we all had been pondering from the beginning of this season and Miles answered most of them. When it came down to the BIG question Hurley asked about the time travelling paradox we get the always mysterious Richard to sum it up very nicely. He stated that he would help poor little Ben but that Ben would not remember it. Great stuff.

    While watching the Hurley/Miles back and forth I literally laughed out loud as visions went passing through my brain. I imagined Hurley being all the LOST fans and Hammer playing the role of Miles getting upset because no one could understand the what happened happened scenerio and then finally being stumped and sorta throwing his hands in the air and stomping away when he had no explanation. Funny stuff, very funny stuff.[/quote]
    [quote comment="326408"]Before reading the comments I want to explain why I think this episode exemplified how great LOST has always been. This episode filled in so many blanks it was ridiculous. What happened to Aaron answered. What did Sawyer ask Kate to do answered. Althought these two items were fairly predictable it was still exciting to get the confirmation on these two highly debated questions. The greatest thing, to me, because I already thought the Aaron and Sawyer questions were predictable, was Hurley and Miles. Hurley was essentially playing the role of us. The LOST fans. He asked every question that we all had been pondering from the beginning of this season and Miles answered most of them. When it came down to the BIG question Hurley asked about the time travelling paradox we get the always mysterious Richard to sum it up very nicely. He stated that he would help poor little Ben but that Ben would not remember it. Great stuff.

    While watching the Hurley/Miles back and forth I literally laughed out loud as visions went passing through my brain. I imagined Hurley being all the LOST fans and Hammer playing the role of Miles getting upset because no one could understand the what happened happened scenerio and then finally being stumped and sorta throwing his hands in the air and stomping away when he had no explanation. Funny stuff, very funny stuff.[/quote]
    ———————————-
    the 1 question hurley didn’t ask miles, that i’d still like to know, is why did miles come to the island?!?!

  330. lola says:

    not sure what happened there

  331. adapa1 says:

    I must formally apoligize to anyone I might have offened last night with my vulgarity. Offense is never my objective. I was just really pissed off at WHH!!! It will never happen again.

    Tasha+ Duke= Classy!!! I’ve learned NEVER arguing with either of you!!! ;-)

    Skweez, Bobola, and Slugdoc….You share my pain and I completely agree with you.

    Now…. does anyone have any additional info on the Omen childs traveling gunshot wound? I’m begging for some kind of logic behind this. To think that was accidental is an insult all us viewers. If we noticed the redhead on the set when we weren’t even supposed to, how can we possibly overlook the traveling gunshot wound

  332. lola says:

    [quote comment="326442"]Oh ok. I found it. Three decades. SO SORRY! Duke. (kissing feet.) I don’t understand how that tells us that he is definately on the island in 1977. Also it says they protected the island for 3 decades. So,…who knows. (Still kissing feet.)[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    we know he was on island in the 1950’s and i’m guessing left before or right after purge(when it appears Ben became leader)in the 80’s hence 3 decades. One question tho-where are some getting the idea that Faraday and Penny are twins? Was this ever even hinted at???????

  333. lola says:

    [quote comment="326484"]OKay this is driving me nuts, can SOMEONE please just answer me with what you or anyone thinks.

    Do you think Kate ever really loved Jack? She seemed to in “Something Nice Back Home” but now I am thrown for a loop with all this Sawyer stuff and her ‘needing Aaron’ to cure her heart break over Sawyer. Sense when does Kate “need’ anyone? Isn’t that what her character is all about? I know there is a love triangle between Sawyer Jack and Kate, but now I wonder if Kate was just using Jack subconsciously to get over Sawyer?!????

    Please some insight???? Much thanks![/quote]
    _____________________________________

    i totally see where u are coming from, i think kate probably thought she SHOULD be in love w/ Jack, but was so hot for Sawyer that it didn’t matter. People need to stop hating on Kate BTW. Sorry that Juliet is so upset now that they’re back, but once upon a time she supposedly wanted nothing more than to get the hell off the island

  334. lola says:

    [quote comment="326484"]OKay this is driving me nuts, can SOMEONE please just answer me with what you or anyone thinks.

    Do you think Kate ever really loved Jack? She seemed to in “Something Nice Back Home” but now I am thrown for a loop with all this Sawyer stuff and her ‘needing Aaron’ to cure her heart break over Sawyer. Sense when does Kate “need’ anyone? Isn’t that what her character is all about? I know there is a love triangle between Sawyer Jack and Kate, but now I wonder if Kate was just using Jack subconsciously to get over Sawyer?!????

    Please some insight???? Much thanks![/quote]
    _____________________________________

    i totally see where u are coming from, i think kate probably thought she SHOULD be in love w/ Jack, but was so hot for Sawyer that it didn’t matter. People need to stop hating on Kate BTW. Sorry that Juliet is so upset now that they’re back, but once upon a time she supposedly wanted nothing more than to get the hell off the island

  335. lola says:

    [quote comment="326484"]OKay this is driving me nuts, can SOMEONE please just answer me with what you or anyone thinks.

    Do you think Kate ever really loved Jack? She seemed to in “Something Nice Back Home” but now I am thrown for a loop with all this Sawyer stuff and her ‘needing Aaron’ to cure her heart break over Sawyer. Sense when does Kate “need’ anyone? Isn’t that what her character is all about? I know there is a love triangle between Sawyer Jack and Kate, but now I wonder if Kate was just using Jack subconsciously to get over Sawyer?!????

    Please some insight???? Much thanks![/quote]
    _____________________________________

    i totally see where u are coming from, i think kate probably thought she SHOULD be in love w/ Jack, but was so hot for Sawyer that it didn’t matter. People need to stop hating on Kate BTW. Sorry that Juliet is so upset now that they’re back, but once upon a time she supposedly wanted nothing more than to get the hell off the island

  336. lola says:

    sorry-dont know why i’m multiple posting.
    only thing i thought was lame was lack of conversation b/w cassidy and kate. I mean the last time they saw each other she helped kate see her mom…now it’s “sawyer sent me”???????? i mean talk about a small world! i just think that scene could have been written better.

  337. lola says:

    sorry-dont know why i’m multiple posting.
    only thing i thought was lame was lack of conversation b/w cassidy and kate. I mean the last time they saw each other she helped kate see her mom…now it’s “sawyer sent me”???????? i mean talk about a small world! i just think that scene could have been written better.

  338. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326604"]sorry-dont know why i’m multiple posting.
    only thing i thought was lame was lack of conversation b/w cassidy and kate. I mean the last time they saw each other she helped kate see her mom…now it’s “sawyer sent me”???????? i mean talk about a small world! i just think that scene could have been written better.[/quote]
    Your hitting the submit button more than once.

  339. Amber says:

    lola how come you keep posting everything 3 times?

  340. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326585"]why is all the dharma food still coming to them after their not-bloodless coup?[/quote]

    I had a thought about that a few weeks ago, and forgot to mention it – thanks for reminding me.

    There was talk about the original O815’ers possibly “flashing” in time when the plane crashed (or as it passed through the snow globe). Possibly EVERYONE who passes through that snow globe travels in time somehow.

    Maybe the *island* was on 1980’s or early 90’s time, even though the *people* came from, and to *them* were living in 2001 (Juliet/Desmond) through 2004 (O815ers).

    I am having a difficult time figuring out how to explain what I mean. Basically I am suggesting the food drops are happening in the 80’s even though the people on the island are from twenty years later.

    : ) P

  341. lola says:

    [quote comment="326607"]lola how come you keep posting everything 3 times?[/quote]
    ____________________________________

    not doing it on purpose

  342. Mateo says:

    Of course Ben remembers his childhood:
    1) He knew what day was his birthday (the day of the purge when he killed his father)
    2) He knew his father and everything he did to him
    3) Juliet “reminds him of her” ie. he remembers her saving his life
    4) He knew & told Sayid that Sayid was a killer and liked killing bc he was told it by Sayid himself when he was a kid before he was shot.
    5) Ben just didnt tell people he knew them before, he lies people! also inside knowledge helps him, he doesnt ever disclose info to anyone until it is a last resort.
    There might be a scene to come when someone tells him he must not mention anything to the future versions of themselves, or Ben is smart enough not to.

    Good catch on the blogger who at the beginning of this blog wrote something like “lost of innocence=knowledge”

    To those of you who are complaining about the fillers and writing,… dont watch LOST if it bothers you so much and stop wasting our time reading your bitching! LOST is not a show, it is a business, they need to make money and have a set time to end it all. IMO LOST is better than ever

  343. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326608"][quote comment="326585"]why is all the dharma food still coming to them after their not-bloodless coup?[/quote]

    I had a thought about that a few weeks ago, and forgot to mention it – thanks for reminding me.

    There was talk about the original O815’ers possibly “flashing” in time when the plane crashed (or as it passed through the snow globe). Possibly EVERYONE who passes through that snow globe travels in time somehow.

    Maybe the *island* was on 1980’s or early 90’s time, even though the *people* came from, and to *them* were living in 2001 (Juliet/Desmond) through 2004 (O815ers).

    I am having a difficult time figuring out how to explain what I mean. Basically I am suggesting the food drops are happening in the 80’s even though the people on the island are from twenty years later.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ******
    I’ve always had the opinion that the realtime drops came to a tragic end with the purge. Yet the continued on only becuase of the 108 time loop. I guess that theories kinda got a hole in it….otherwise there would have been a drop every 108. Yay….nay?

    I have a question. Pertaining to the theory i’m about to post(in theories section)

    How often really seen the black smoke after the swan blew and the loop eneded

  344. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326608"][quote comment="326585"]why is all the dharma food still coming to them after their not-bloodless coup?[/quote]

    I had a thought about that a few weeks ago, and forgot to mention it – thanks for reminding me.

    There was talk about the original O815’ers possibly “flashing” in time when the plane crashed (or as it passed through the snow globe). Possibly EVERYONE who passes through that snow globe travels in time somehow.

    Maybe the *island* was on 1980’s or early 90’s time, even though the *people* came from, and to *them* were living in 2001 (Juliet/Desmond) through 2004 (O815ers).

    I am having a difficult time figuring out how to explain what I mean. Basically I am suggesting the food drops are happening in the 80’s even though the people on the island are from twenty years later.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ___________

    I love that! Like they don’t even know the year is different cause they are secluded on an island? But then, how about the Red Sox, and Julliet’s sis, and stuff. Or am I missing a part? That would still be awesome and I get what you are saying!

  345. Tasha says:

    Comment 343:

    Pretty often. Why?

  346. funride says:

    At what point do women start having trouble with births since Ethan was born fine? What exactly causes the issue with giving birth on the island?

  347. Lost Horizon says:

    I have a favor to ask. Please don’t post curse words in your writing. It’s so unnecessary and unpleasant.

    The LOST writers manage to make a thoughtful and intelligent script without using swearing words in every scene. Please try to do the same on this blog.

    Maybe Richard Albert is a vampire and he took Ben into the temple for a bite! That would make them immortal, right? Okay…maybe I’ve been reading too much of the Twilight series.

  348. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326617"]At what point do women start having trouble with births since Ethan was born fine? What exactly causes the issue with giving birth on the island?[/quote]

    _____

    I don’t think we know the answer to that yet but apparantly I have been watching episodes with lots of important stuff cut out, so I may be wrong. From what I know though, none of that has been answered although there are many theories. Hopefully we will find out this season!

  349. Scooter says:

    [quote comment="326330"]

    Detective Skywalker… You have the best damn handle EVER!! You obviously rock!!
    Hey at least Lucas hides his minimal filler by surrounding it with Special Effects and Buddhist doctrine. unfortunatley Lost isn’t from lucas and gives us pure uncut filler whenever we aren’t supposed to notice the lack of logical explantions we have for ANY of these characters to Want to save The omen child. But to have kate and sawyer be the ones!!!????

    Some one please explain to me how thats a good idea.

    Here’s why its not..I’m upset by the filler we saw all around the Omen kid. I SSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO mad they chose to employ the use of Kate, AND sawyer as means to save his life. The only thing worse (or just as backward)would have been Sayid tryin to save him and sawyer shooting him.

    I mad the theory posted earlier about Kate having to save Ben to find Aaron wasn’t the case…I didn’t even think it so pertinent til now.

    Honestly guys….

    as I Gradually get a little calmer, the true source of my disenchantment is very clear. IMO, this episode makes a strong case for the high probability of them fucking up this show up in the end,

    and I just can’t accept that.

    “IMO this episode was completely laced with blatant fingers pointing to the ‘purgatory theory” which I always hated and have only my special finger as a response for that.”

    I also think that they’ve gone too far now for purgatory not to be the case”

    The hieroglyphs translating to UNDERWORLD prove to be a statement of the obvious now when I had my hopes SSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOO High.

    Don’t get me wrong….they can’t screw up enough for me not finish off the show.
    Does anyone remember Steven Kings ‘the stand’??
    Ironically that show came up monday in my Clive Barker vs Steven King.

    Steven is a better writer. In fact he’s so good we over look the fact that he consistently has the shittiest story endings possible(sorry ‘crappiest’ was enough for me Lost4ever)
    The Stand…….americans were all captivated by this amazing story. LIke lost it was watched and enjoyed by many. Yet only LOVED enough to be understood by the smartest fans.

    And what happened on the end of THe Stand? I’ve never even met one person who can remember because it was THE worst ending of all time. No biggie right? I’ve just boycotted everything steven king after that.

    LOST is the best….and most importantly the smartest show of all time. But I think the worst thing DC ever did was sign the contract telling us all exactly when the show is gonna end. which gives us filler and commercials………or crazy action/less commercials because they ran out of time to tell the story.

    DC says it the contract was good for them.

    The edge it took from them I now know. and have to talk like yoda to make me feel better about.

    It’s just not fair to steal all the Star trek Fans from around the world, historically proven to be the most relentless fans of all time…who at the start of LOST still had a big whole in their tv hearts from watching Picard turn into Shatner because laziness,contenment, and money kill the best characters, the best movies, and anything else on TV that actually makes you smarter.

    the purgatory ending is like trading Joe Montana to the Raiders LOL!!! a perfect example for the reasoning of my suffering.

    This show is just TOO good to go out all wishy washy like that. I remember HATING this show until John found the hatch the first season! Then I’ve been too addicted to accept anything below par. Purgatory is a cop out….. an easy way to end a show that should have been
    impossible to even fathom, but became a reality when the checks got written.

    Abrams was better off wondering if he would still even have a LOST the following year. When He could afford to screw it up because nobody cared yet. Now….this show is all us geeks have to count on.

    But….. i’ve had my say. … Which i know was a lot, so i’ll be nice and promise to remain silent if we are ever again cursed with more filler.
    ** I refuse to be a ‘told you so guy’ specifically when it pertains to me trying to explain how they fucked up the best damn show we ever saw all because they wanted to give Ben another chance”

    Sawyer should have but a second bullet in him while kate watched….[/quote]
    Meth much?

  350. Jumbo-Tron says:

    I think Roger and Freckles might be gettin’ cozy soon!

    That line “lose his innocence” totally creeps me out. I need to put in a call to Chris Hansen at Dateline.

    I agree that Freckles is truly in love w/ Sawyer. And I believe that Juliet is truly in love w/ Jack. She couldn’t wait to catch him in the shower!

  351. adapa1 says:

    Mateo!!! Calm down brother! We all have our extremes, You love LOST in such a way that ever hour wednesday night is just bliss.

    My love is only conditional. And those conditions can change at any time. I mean if you woke up tomorrow and noticed there was no sun…surley you’d be disenchanted and in the dark. Wondering why the sun isn’t working up to par all of a sudden.

    I love LOst so much that I just can’t accept to see it tarnish. Now it’s clear that you loved WHH…. but it’s more than evident that that episode was meant clear up the rules of TT for everyone that didn’t learn em from star trek the first time. ;-0

    Detective skywalker qouted the la times in an earlier comment:
    “Yes, it seems convenient, and a little too much of the dialogue in “What Happened, Happened” felt like it was being explained right at us instead of existing in the make-believe world we’ve grown obsessed with, but no matter. Nestor Carbonell, who plays Alpert, is a damn compelling actor and the lighting, sinister music and his intense stare sold the moment. Who would ever have guessed that Hurley and Kate were the two who helped make Ben who he is now.”

    latimesblogs.latimes.com/showt…”

    Lost is a business… I understand this.
    Yet everyone has a duty that must be done. In the end….after all the checks are signed and every leaves the set…only one thing really matters. ” did we keep/satisy the fans who made this show so famous by obbsessing on it before there even was a hatch..and before DC even knew what to do with it. We are those fans!!! But abc+greed= Lost enhanced episodes!!! The primtime hour before the best show ever, is used SOLEY to get new fans! It’s a blatant and entertaining lure. Now I’m assuming most of us here have no reason to watch this because we’ve seen every episode atleast three times already. Yet it still airs every wed night before the show. that’s a lot of money to waste attempting to explain this show to the newbies, when the oldest fans still can’t seem explain it. It’s was old fashioned neglect to me. like Pop stars who get too famous and alienate the fans who put all that money in you pockets, and supported you when you sucked lol.

    You claim LOST a bussines
    I say that business is bigger than that.
    So strong are we LOST, we’ve been blogging for Five seasons now. WOW! That a lot of unpaid dectective work, speculation, and physics homework.

    So yes….random survivors on the island…..was acceptable then but not in the ninth inning.

    so yes…..foolish actions by characters….was acceptable then, before they were developed enough for us to care. But here we are the bottom of the fifth season and we have Sawyer AND kate(both with a least one murder) deciding to do the ‘right thing’ which is saving a kid who then grows up to manipulate, and attempt to kill them all. Then, we had this newbie dialogue that told us all the golden TT rule ‘what ever happened happened’

    what happened is that we all just happpened to notice a gun shot wound relocated because thats what happens in the twilight zone. You get your intelligence insulted and never notice because there’s soooo much pretty Filler hahaha

  352. adapa1 says:

    SORRY… MY QUESTION WAS: how often have we seen the black smoke AFTER the swam exploded.

    I keep thinking of when ben summoned the kill the mercenaries. But every other instance i can come up with is in or before the 108 loop

  353. adapa1 says:

    Scooter…..huh? I was soo pissed..i still kinda am. I take it you enjoyed WHH?

  354. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326619"][quote comment="326617"]At what point do women start having trouble with births since Ethan was born fine? What exactly causes the issue with giving birth on the island?[/quote]

    _____

    I don’t think we know the answer to that yet but apparantly I have been watching episodes with lots of important stuff cut out, so I may be wrong. From what I know though, none of that has been answered although there are many theories. Hopefully we will find out this season![/quote]

    no problem with babies until they created the time loop after the incident. So Ethan may have been the last one before aaron. The timeloooptheory really explains this well. The fetus ages while the mother doesn’t.. or something along those lines

  355. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326616"]Comment 343:

    Pretty often. Why?[/quote]
    just analzing the course correcting theory of the smoke. If it is true then I think there would be Zero black smoke until 815 crashed and the loop ended.

  356. adapa1 says:

    Tasha & funride: This theory has tons of answers for you.

    Goodnight

  357. LostJunkie says:

    Re: post 268, wasn’t Hurley there when Locke and Ben go to Jacob’s Cabin, and wasn’t he there when Locke says that Jacob told him to move to the Island? So he could have an idea of a wheel from that.

    I’m with Circus Mom, Ellie and Widmore are related, not lovers/married, in my opinion.

  358. LostJunkie says:

    Sorry, I meant to say in the above post “move the island”, not “move TO the island”, my mistake.

  359. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326599"][quote comment="326442"]Oh ok. I found it. Three decades. SO SORRY! Duke. (kissing feet.) I don’t understand how that tells us that he is definately on the island in 1977. Also it says they protected the island for 3 decades. So,…who knows. (Still kissing feet.)[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    we know he was on island in the 1950’s and i’m guessing left before or right after purge(when it appears Ben became leader)in the 80’s hence 3 decades. One question tho-where are some getting the idea that Faraday and Penny are twins? Was this ever even hinted at???????[/quote]
    _______________________
    That’s just people speculating. Widmore is Penny’s father, Ellie (Ms. Hawking) is Faraday’s mother. Widmore and Ellie have been on the island together for 20 years or so. Perhaps they hooked up, and are Penny’s and Faraday’s parents.

  360. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326615"]
    I love that! Like they don’t even know the year is different cause they are secluded on an island? But then, how about the Red Sox, and Julliet’s sis, and stuff. Or am I missing a part? That would still be awesome and I get what you are saying![/quote]

    Well the idea is that the “outside world” is still existing in “real time” so that while it is the 1980’s on the island, it is still 2001 (or whatever) on the mainland. My thought is that the island is receiving drops that were, in essence, delivered 20 years earlier.

    : ) P

  361. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326632"]Tasha & funride:

    This theory has tons of answers for you.

    Goodnight

    http //www youtube com/watch [/quote]

    Another two minutes of my life I won’t get back.

    *sigh*

    : ) P

  362. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326629"]no problem with babies until they created the time loop after the incident. So Ethan may have been the last one before aaron. The timeloooptheory really explains this well. The fetus ages while the mother doesn’t.. or something along those lines[/quote]

    We haven’t been told just WHEN the problem with pregnancy started. And I am not sure we can even say that “they created the time loop after the incident” either. I believe this is speculation.

    I think it is just as likely that the pregnancy issues coincide with the purge. Perhaps whatever gas Ben used still has an effect on woman. Because Ben orchestrated the purge, he feels compelled to figure out how to fix it.

    I believe women having uteri that have aged far more than they have would prevent them from becoming pregnant, not make them die during childbirth.

    One thing that Juliet once said is that the women’s immune systems were rejecting the fetuses. That might be more closely related to the island’s HEALING powers than anything else. There are instances IRL of a woman’s body rejecting the fetus because it is viewed as a foreign body (literally) and therefore as an infection. However, the IRL reaction is that the woman miscarries (usually), not that she dies. Still, this is LOST, so the rules are different.

    : ) P

  363. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326577"][quote comment="326576"][quote comment="326572"]
    Well, Juliet spent three years living as an Other – she IS an Other, so she knows what they are and can do.[/quote]

    True, but wasn’t she a Ben Other versus an Alpert Other? What I mean is that there were two kinds of Others… those that lived in the DHARMA barracks and had a “mainstream” society working in the DHARMA stations, with book club, and therapists, runway building, and science and medical experiments (though they were NOT DHARMA). The other Others were the former “hostiles” that were seemingly nomadic and followed Alpert (possible Whisperers). Ben floated between the two groups, but I saw them as definitively TWO groups.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I agree. Two sperate goups. New Others vs. Old Others. Still seems strange to me.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    AND YET… Juliet herself refers to herself as an Other. She said that the 1954 Others spoke Latin, as she did, because they all learned it in “Others 101″ – a joke of course, but not entirely. She is a true Other. After the purge, the remaining Dharmites became Others. Just as they had assimilated the army camp, they assimilated Dharmaville. There is ONE group not two. Alpert helping to recruit Juliet clinches the deal for me. One group made up of old and new Others.

  364. Hammer says:

    Just chiming in @ the island preg. issue.

    I think it’s still possible that the problem lies with Ben and the circumstances of his birth (his first ‘birth’). Might be punishment to the folks that helped him carry it out purge.

  365. Hammer says:

    I think someone brought this up in a previous thread, so here is my thought on it.

    Maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and we are in the midst of a course correction to stop it? Maybe some of the whisperers are the DHARMA folks that were killed in the purge looking for help:

    From Outlaws:

    “Maybe we should just talk to him”
    “No if he see us it will ruin everything”
    “What did he see”
    “They could help us”

    From Abandoned:

    “It’s the brothers that help us”

    From the Other 48 Days:

    “Shannon”
    “Your life and time is up”
    “Help me”
    “Fire Lucia”
    “The brothers that help us”

    From The Other Woman:

    “If she won’t save us then who is?”

  366. steve says:

    Just a few thoughts

    Is it possible that is only one set of Others? They simply occupy the bodies, or image of the bodies, of those that they come across. it seems that Charles Widnmore, in 1954, was wearing the uniform of a U.S. Army soldier named “Jones”. We have seen Others in rag tag clothing like clothing that would have been worn aboard a 19th century slave /mining ship. Could this also be a good reason why RA wanted Paul’s dead body to bring back to “His People”, and possible why Ben left Alex’s Body out in the open, and did not attempt to take it along for burial. Could Ben have thaught that smokey might take her body back to the temple? the whole possession theory might also providean explanation for Dannielle saying that her crew was infected and killed them all including Robert. If Dannielle could somehow detect the presence of “Otherness” in her crew, perhaps the reason that she never sees them is that they are avoiding her out of fear.

    I also wondered why Juliet would allow Kate to take Ben without the oxygen tank. If he went into convulsions once from a lack of oxygen, is it reasonable to assume it could happen again?

    And I still can’t figure out how Ben’s wound moved from a fatal location to potentially fatal one.

    Comments… Help…

  367. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="326682"][quote comment="326629"]no problem with babies until they created the time loop after the incident. So Ethan may have been the last one before aaron. The timeloooptheory really explains this well. The fetus ages while the mother doesn’t.. or something along those lines[/quote]

    We haven’t been told just WHEN the problem with pregnancy started. And I am not sure we can even say that “they created the time loop after the incident” either. I believe this is speculation.

    I think it is just as likely that the pregnancy issues coincide with the purge. Perhaps whatever gas Ben used still has an effect on woman. Because Ben orchestrated the purge, he feels compelled to figure out how to fix it.

    I believe women having uteri that have aged far more than they have would prevent them from becoming pregnant, not make them die during childbirth.

    One thing that Juliet once said is that the women’s immune systems were rejecting the fetuses. That might be more closely related to the island’s HEALING powers than anything else. There are instances IRL of a woman’s body rejecting the fetus because it is viewed as a foreign body (literally) and therefore as an infection. However, the IRL reaction is that the woman miscarries (usually), not that she dies. Still, this is LOST, so the rules are different.

    : ) P[/quote]
    *********************
    I agree that the problem is either the purge or maybe the incident. does it have something to do also with the destruction of the statue? It was destroyed and maybe that destroyed the woman’s protection. Although the interesting thing is that the women do not have trouble getting pregnant…they have old uteruses which you would think would make it impossible to carry a baby…maybe the old uteruses have something to do with TT? Could it effect the body in a bad way? But why is it that it is not the baby that dies…usually when the body rejects the fetus it happens at an earlier stage and miscarriage occurs (usually 1st trimester)but here the mom dies…and why bring Juliette who is a fertility doc? Wouldn’t she have more to do with getting pregnant? I liked earlier threads saying Juliette (fertility doc = statue (fertility god?) maybe somewhere along the line she does solve this problem…
    (ok, sorry if that seemed to ramble, it makes sense in your head and then you start typing…ha it makes you feel LOST!
    -miss

  368. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326709"]

    And I still can’t figure out how Ben’s wound moved from a fatal location to potentially fatal one.

    Comments… Help…[/quote]

    **************************************************
    1. It could simply be a continuity error, it wouldnt be the first time and it wont be the last time there are mistakes.
    2. The bullet could have entered and ricocheted around and then of some ribs and came out through the right side (I know far fetched)Juliet did say that she could not find the exact point of the bleeding

  369. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326703"]

    Maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and we are in the midst of a course correction to stop it? Maybe some of the whisperers are the DHARMA folks that were killed in the purge looking for help:
    [/quote]
    It sure looks like that might be the case with the whispers you posted but that depends on the WHH theory. I tend to lean toward it NOT being every single incident. For instance, maybe Sayid did not shoot Ben the “first time around” and Jack not willing to operate was the course correction. Ben is still on the same path. Maybe being shot and taken to Alpert just sped his path up 15 years, or not?

  370. Duke says:

    Response to comment #285- Richard also gave Locke the compass when he fixed his gunshot wound> Richard told him that he needed the compass because the next they saw each other Richard would not recognize him. This obviously meant that Richard knew Locke would travel back in time to a year that Richard would not recognize who he was. He gave it to him so Locke could prove that he knew Richard.

    Response to comment 311- You missed the whole point of my argument. Daniel used the early nosebleeders as sign that they had spent time on the island before the events that we were watching. My guess by the others comment about Ellie and Widmore not being pleased with Richard for helping Ben meant to me that they were currently on the island when Ben got shot. Therefore, the premise that Ellie is Faraday’s mother would lead me to believe that he too was on the island at that time. So for those that want to see Faraday as the all knowing time travelling wizard they would have to believe that Faraday would have also gotten nosebleeds because he had been on the island before. I AM NOT convinced that Ellie is Faraday’s mother. The only proof we have is the enhanced version of the episodes which Darlton have stated are not entirely accurate. I just wish we knew Faraday’s birthdate so the math could be little more accurate. Also wish we knew if the Hostiles, the original ones with Ellie and Widmore, had ways of getting off the island. At this point in time the only Hostile seen off island pre-Dharma was Richard visiting Locke at his birth and as a boy but he is obviously special in some way so his off island adventures can be explained.

  371. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326711"][quote comment="326709"]

    And I still can’t figure out how Ben’s wound moved from a fatal location to potentially fatal one.

    Comments… Help…[/quote]

    **************************************************
    1. It could simply be a continuity error, it wouldn’t be the first time and it wont be the last time there are mistakes.
    2. The bullet could have entered and ricocheted around and then of some ribs and came out through the right side (I know far fetched)Juliet did say that she could not find the exact point of the bleeding[/quote]
    ***********************************
    Taken from an article about gunshot wounds:

    The nature and severity of a bullet wound depend on the characteristics of the bullet and of the tissues through which it travels. In addition to the mass and velocity of the bullet, its orientation and whether it fragments affect the nature of the wound.

  372. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326693"]
    AND YET… Juliet herself refers to herself as an Other. She said that the 1954 Others spoke Latin, as she did, because they all learned it in “Others 101″ – a joke of course, but not entirely. She is a true Other. After the purge, the remaining Dharmites became Others. Just as they had assimilated the army camp, they assimilated Dharmaville. There is ONE group not two. Alpert helping to recruit Juliet clinches the deal for me. One group made up of old and new Others.[/quote]
    Good point Rita and I think I am starting to agree with you. Richard said to Sawyer and Kate, who for some dumb reason didn’t even hesitate turning him over, that Ben “will ALWAYS be One Of Us”. Coincidentally enough, Juliet’s second FB was entitled “One of Us”. Maybe once you’re in, you’re in, regardless of how you arrived there.

  373. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="326703"]Maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and we are in the midst of a course correction to stop it? [/quote]

    If you believe that there is such a thing as “course correction” then you don’t believe in WHH. Correct?

    Because in the “whatever happened happened” theory, Sayid ALWAYS shot Ben and Jack ALWAYS refused to operate. The purge ALWAYS happened. Can’t be corrected.

    (To my mind, only Desmond can potentially course correct. Though when he tried it with Charlie, it didn’t work.)

  374. Miss lost says:

    Duke, I agree with you…i might not have been clear in post #285, but I also thought Richard giving the compass was proof that he knows about TT. It doesn’t mean he himself can TT, but he KNEW they would meet again. It is also interesting that he KNEW he would not know who Locke was. How did he know he would TT to the past? Has he been meeting people throughout time? Does Richard know that when people travel to the past it is not their past (ie not Locke’s past) but the islands past?
    -miss

  375. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326713"]

    Response to comment 311- You missed the whole point of my argument. [/quote] No I didn’t, just correcting your fact that the freighter was in 2004, not 2007.
    [quote comment="326713"] I AM NOT convinced that Ellie is Faraday’s mother. The only proof we have is the enhanced version of the episodes which Darlton have stated are not entirely accurate. [/quote]

    Agreed. But in the convo with Desmond she never denied not being Faraday’s mom. I guess it is like assuming Widmore was the island leader for 30 years when he NEVER actually said that. I guess you can have it both ways though.

  376. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326703"]I think someone brought this up in a previous thread, so here is my thought on it.

    Maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and we are in the midst of a course correction to stop it? Maybe some of the whisperers are the DHARMA folks that were killed in the purge looking for help:

    From Outlaws:

    “Maybe we should just talk to him”
    “No if he see us it will ruin everything”
    “What did he see”
    “They could help us”

    From Abandoned:

    “It’s the brothers that help us”

    From the Other 48 Days:

    “Shannon”
    “Your life and time is up”
    “Help me”
    “Fire Lucia”
    “The brothers that help us”

    From The Other Woman:

    “If she won’t save us then who is?”[/quote]

    That may be, that the end result of the Losties TT to 1970’s is that they prevent the purge. Perhaps that is why D&C have been so adamant about “you can’t change things”, somewhat to mislead us, but also because that is what Lost was always intended to be about, getting Dharma back in business on the island?

    A couple aspects of it that I’m not sure about – one is that Widmore told Locke he had to go back to the island to make sure the right side wins the upcoming war. But Locke seems to be on the island in the 2000’s, which is after the purge. Will Locke somehow go back to the 1970’s? Or is Widmore talking about something else?

    The other aspect is that there’s a lot of time between the most recent episode (1977) and the purge (1992), so how would they deal with that on the show. More time travelling? Or just skip ahead 15 years in the storytelling?

  377. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326715"][quote comment="326693"]
    AND YET… Juliet herself refers to herself as an Other. She said that the 1954 Others spoke Latin, as she did, because they all learned it in “Others 101″ – a joke of course, but not entirely. She is a true Other. After the purge, the remaining Dharmites became Others. Just as they had assimilated the army camp, they assimilated Dharmaville. There is ONE group not two. Alpert helping to recruit Juliet clinches the deal for me. One group made up of old and new Others.[/quote]
    Richard said to Sawyer and Kate that Ben “will ALWAYS be One Of Us”. Coincidentally enough, Juliet’s second FB was entitled “One of Us”. Maybe once you’re in, you’re in, regardless of how you arrived there.[/quote]

    ************************************
    Great thought lost4ever

  378. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326717"]Duke, I agree with you…i might not have been clear in post #285, but I also thought Richard giving the compass was proof that he knows about TT. It doesn’t mean he himself can TT, but he KNEW they would meet again. It is also interesting that he KNEW he would not know who Locke was. How did he know he would TT to the past? Has he been meeting people throughout time? Does Richard know that when people travel to the past it is not their past (ie not Locke’s past) but the islands past?
    -miss[/quote]
    Maybe this is not directly related to what’s been discussed, but we know that Alpert in 2004 knows about time travel, because of the scene with Locke that you referred to. However, we don’t know exactly when he learned about this. From Jughead, it seemed he didn’t know about TT in 1954, unless he was faking it when Locke appeared. Even in 1974, when Sawyer had that conversation with Alpert about turning over Paul’s body, Alpert didn’t seem to know about TT. So maybe the ability to TT wasn’t developed until later in the 70’s or 80’s, perhaps as a result of what Dharma was doing.

  379. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="326720"][quote comment="326715"][quote comment="326693"]
    AND YET… Juliet herself refers to herself as an Other. She said that the 1954 Others spoke Latin, as she did, because they all learned it in “Others 101″ – a joke of course, but not entirely. She is a true Other. After the purge, the remaining Dharmites became Others. Just as they had assimilated the army camp, they assimilated Dharmaville. There is ONE group not two. Alpert helping to recruit Juliet clinches the deal for me. One group made up of old and new Others.[/quote]
    Richard said to Sawyer and Kate that Ben “will ALWAYS be One Of Us”. Coincidentally enough, Juliet’s second FB was entitled “One of Us”. Maybe once you’re in, you’re in, regardless of how you arrived there.[/quote]

    ************************************
    Great thought lost4ever[/quote]
    ********************
    Starting to agree…good point! Would this be why there are so many people in the “real” world who are still willing to help Ben? They are still others?
    -miss
    -miss

  380. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="326721"][quote comment="326717"]Duke, I agree with you…i might not have been clear in post #285, but I also thought Richard giving the compass was proof that he knows about TT. It doesn’t mean he himself can TT, but he KNEW they would meet again. It is also interesting that he KNEW he would not know who Locke was. How did he know he would TT to the past? Has he been meeting people throughout time? Does Richard know that when people travel to the past it is not their past (ie not Locke’s past) but the islands past?
    -miss[/quote]
    Maybe this is not directly related to what’s been discussed, but we know that Alpert in 2004 knows about time travel, because of the scene with Locke that you referred to. However, we don’t know exactly when he learned about this. From Jughead, it seemed he didn’t know about TT in 1954, unless he was faking it when Locke appeared. Even in 1974, when Sawyer had that conversation with Alpert about turning over Paul’s body, Alpert didn’t seem to know about TT. So maybe the ability to TT wasn’t developed until later in the 70’s or 80’s, perhaps as a result of what Dharma was doing.[/quote]
    *****************
    I like this thought…it makes sense to me. TT was/is a result of Dharma! Could Faraday have a hand in it?

  381. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326721"][quote comment="326717"]It doesn’t mean he himself can TT, but he KNEW they would meet again. It is also interesting that he KNEW he would not know who Locke was. How did he know he would TT to the past? Has he been meeting people throughout time? Does Richard know that when people travel to the past it is not their past (ie not Locke’s past) but the islands past?
    -miss[/quote]
    Maybe this is not directly related to what’s been discussed, but we know that Alpert in 2004 knows about time travel, because of the scene with Locke that you referred to. However, we don’t know exactly when he learned about this. From Jughead, it seemed he didn’t know about TT in 1954, unless he was faking it when Locke appeared. Even in 1974, when Sawyer had that conversation with Alpert about turning over Paul’s body, Alpert didn’t seem to know about TT. So maybe the ability to TT wasn’t developed until later in the 70’s or 80’s, perhaps as a result of what Dharma was doing.[/quote]

    **********************************
    I don’t know. Alpert (1954) saw Locke vanish into thin air. Alpert (1974) asked Sawyer where he came from. Sawyer said “you know that guy that walked into your camp 20 years ago and then disappeared right in front of your eyes? I’m with him”
    It could have planted a seed about the possibilities of TT.

  382. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326682"][quote comment="326629"]no problem with babies until they created the time loop after the incident. So Ethan may have been the last one before aaron. The timeloooptheory really explains this well. The fetus ages while the mother doesn’t.. or something along those lines[/quote]

    We haven’t been told just WHEN the problem with pregnancy started. And I am not sure we can even say that “they created the time loop after the incident” either. I believe this is speculation.

    I think it is just as likely that the pregnancy issues coincide with the purge. Perhaps whatever gas Ben used still has an effect on woman. Because Ben orchestrated the purge, he feels compelled to figure out how to fix it.

    I believe women having uteri that have aged far more than they have would prevent them from becoming pregnant, not make them die during childbirth.

    One thing that Juliet once said is that the women’s immune systems were rejecting the fetuses. That might be more closely related to the island’s HEALING powers than anything else. There are instances IRL of a woman’s body rejecting the fetus because it is viewed as a foreign body (literally) and therefore as an infection. However, the IRL reaction is that the woman miscarries (usually), not that she dies. Still, this is LOST, so the rules are different.

    : ) P[/quote]

    hahah sorry to waste that two minutes buddy. I should have spared you. I’m only sold on ONE aspect in that theory which is the 108 minute time loop. Why do you think no one ever comes to relieve desmond of his position and they still think the dharma are still alive…..

    Ok..I think I just cracked and atom over here. IF the 108 lop theory is in fact true, Then I finally know why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him.

    Because he is the ONLY person to ever arrive on the island DURING that 108 loop who we know wasn’t there before( well up to this point)

  383. wally p says:

    As much as I have never wanted to believe in it, I’m giving thought to Richard as an alien.
    I’ll get back to that though…

    Now Ben cant remember what happens to him before the reincarnation. To me that obviously ties in to him beig able to have dreams, and flash memories of his past, and also to him seeing this past while he has been passed out. He is at his judgement day, parralel to the time of his reincarnation. Would explain him being obsessed with Juliet. Face he saw once in a dream. Like that he is tied briefly to Kate and Sawyer. Maybe thats why he wanted them together in the cages. (cuz he’s a Kate and Sawyer fan.)

    Maybe this is when the losties flash to their proper place, once Alpert carries him into the temple… the flash starts coming. It’d be interesting if some flash into different places.

    -I give it up to the Widmore/Hawking joint leadership theory. Would explain their sibling vibe… and ALSO the Locke/Ben sibling vibe. Maybe this is what it takes to finally bring these two together. Black and white stones.

    I would dig seeing young ben get back together with dad. New relationship now. Dad has already realized what a dick he is. Plus now he may even be a little bit scared of the “new” Ben.

    Now Richard. Still dont know where exactly to stand on him. He’s completely unique though. Maybe he cant time travel and so does not completely buy into the idea of it. He has a different perspective but could still be slightly mislead. The way he sees things is somewhat different but he is always truthful. He knows his purpose and he is a leader, but he needs human people to help him carry out his cause (in “whatever??” form, havent got that far yet)

  384. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326709"]
    I also wondered why Juliet would allow Kate to take Ben without the oxygen tank. If he went into convulsions once from a lack of oxygen, is it reasonable to assume it could happen again?

    Comments… Help…[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    He probably DID need the O2 tank, BUT he had just had a transfusion of Kate’s blood, so presumably he now has enough hemoglobin (which carries oxygen in the blood) to ward off a seizure from hypoxia.

  385. steve says:

    [quote comment="326629"]Ok..I think I just cracked and atom over here. IF the 108 lop theory is in fact true, Then I finally know why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him.

    Because he is the ONLY person to ever arrive on the island DURING that 108 loop who we know wasn’t there before( well up to this point)[/quote]

    Didn’t the flight 815 survivors all come to the island during the 108 loop?

  386. jaime says:

    [quote comment="326627"]SORRY… MY QUESTION WAS: how often have we seen the black smoke AFTER the swam exploded.

    I keep thinking of when ben summoned the kill the mercenaries. But every other instance i can come up with is in or before the 108 loop[/quote]
    *********************************************

    The Swan explosion happened Season 2 somewhere between Days 44-67.

    (Days 71-82) After Swan Explosion

    Smokie manifested as Yemi
    Smokie versus Eko resulting in Eko’s death
    Kat and Juliet’s interaction w/ Smokie
    Smokie repelled by sonic fence

    2007 or 2008
    Frank and Sun heard Smokie while on the dock but never saw him.

  387. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326722"][quote comment="326720"][quote comment="326715"][quote comment="326693"]
    AND YET… Juliet herself refers to herself as an Other. She said that the 1954 Others spoke Latin, as she did, because they all learned it in “Others 101″ – a joke of course, but not entirely. She is a true Other. After the purge, the remaining Dharmites became Others. Just as they had assimilated the army camp, they assimilated Dharmaville. There is ONE group not two. Alpert helping to recruit Juliet clinches the deal for me. One group made up of old and new Others.[/quote]
    Richard said to Sawyer and Kate that Ben “will ALWAYS be One Of Us”. Coincidentally enough, Juliet’s second FB was entitled “One of Us”. Maybe once you’re in, you’re in, regardless of how you arrived there.[/quote]

    ************************************
    Great thought lost4ever[/quote]
    ********************
    Starting to agree…good point! Would this be why there are so many people in the “real” world who are still willing to help Ben? They are still others?
    -miss
    -miss[/quote]

    ____________

    Could it be that maybe Richard doesn’t know THAT much about time travel but knows that Locke does it all the time and knew he needed that compass because he is used to Locke flashing in and out of time whenever the sky lights up? I could be wrong and don’t have anything past that. But just a thought.

  388. wally p says:

    [quote comment="326728"][quote comment="326629"]Ok..I think I just cracked and atom over here. IF the 108 lop theory is in fact true, Then I finally know why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him.

    Because he is the ONLY person to ever arrive on the island DURING that 108 loop who we know wasn’t there before( well up to this point)[/quote]

    Didn’t the flight 815 survivors all come to the island during the 108 loop?[/quote]

    Yeah… Desmond was the seed.

  389. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326724"][quote comment="326721"][quote comment="326717"]**********************************
    I don’t know. Alpert (1954) saw Locke vanish into thin air. Alpert (1974) asked Sawyer where he came from. Sawyer said “you know that guy that walked into your camp 20 years ago and then disappeared right in front of your eyes? I’m with him”
    It could have planted a seed about the possibilities of TT.[/quote]

    ___________

    I agree with that.

  390. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326728"][quote comment="326629"]Ok..I think I just cracked and atom over here. IF the 108 lop theory is in fact true, Then I finally know why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him.

    Because he is the ONLY person to ever arrive on the island DURING that 108 loop who we know wasn’t there before( well up to this point)[/quote]

    Didn’t the flight 815 survivors all come to the island during the 108 loop?[/quote]
    ****** nope that’s when desmond didn’t enter the code in on time and the loop stopped and the loop stopped and caused it to crash.

  391. adapa1 says:

    Thanks Jaime!!

  392. Saba says:

    This is one of things where some people want an absolute declaration of fact; the wan Ms. Hawking to hold her hand up and say, “I am Daniel’s mother.” Don’t hold your breath.

    Daniel was in his late-twenties/early-thirties at Oxford in 1996. So call his birth year late-sixties/early-seventies.

    If Ellie is Ms. Hawking and is on the Island in ‘77 then little Danny is there; Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds but neither does Theresa.

    8) Jim
    ______________________________________________________

    First time poster.. please be kind!

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?

  393. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326716"][quote comment="326703"]Maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and we are in the midst of a course correction to stop it? [/quote]

    If you believe that there is such a thing as “course correction” then you don’t believe in WHH. Correct?

    Because in the “whatever happened happened” theory, Sayid ALWAYS shot Ben and Jack ALWAYS refused to operate. The purge ALWAYS happened. Can’t be corrected.

    (To my mind, only Desmond can potentially course correct. Though when he tried it with Charlie, it didn’t work.)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++=
    Actually I think whatever happened happened is different than…whatever happened ALWAYS happened. In other words incidental things changed but the important things didn’t. I think this is the first time the losties are in the 70’s as their 2000’s selves. I don’t think its a time loop because I don’t think they keep coming back to the 70’s after going home, living their live till they get on 815, go thru hell, skip thru time, end up in the 70’s, go back home, get on 815,…….

    IMO, course correcting is fixing an event that was supposed to happen but didn’t. Desmond wasn’t course correcting for Charlie, fate kept coming at Charlie until he died because he was supposed to and Desmond was stopping fate NOT course correcting.

    Therefore, my theory is that IF they stop the purge…it is a course correction because the purge wasn’t supposed to happen.

  394. steve says:

    [quote comment="326734"][quote comment="326728"][quote comment="326629"]Ok..I think I just cracked and atom over here. IF the 108 lop theory is in fact true, Then I finally know why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him.

    Because he is the ONLY person to ever arrive on the island DURING that 108 loop who we know wasn’t there before( well up to this point)[/quote]

    Didn’t the flight 815 survivors all come to the island during the 108 loop?[/quote]
    ****** nope that’s when desmond didn’t enter the code in on time and the loop stopped and the loop stopped and caused it to crash.[/quote]

    I get it. Now it makes more sense.

  395. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326738"]This is one of things where some people want an absolute declaration of fact; the wan Ms. Hawking to hold her hand up and say, “I am Daniel’s mother.” Don’t hold your breath.

    Daniel was in his late-twenties/early-thirties at Oxford in 1996. So call his birth year late-sixties/early-seventies.

    If Ellie is Ms. Hawking and is on the Island in ‘77 then little Danny is there; Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds but neither does Theresa.

    8) Jim
    ______________________________________________________

    First time poster.. please be kind!

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I’ll be kind.

    I have said in the past that is why Dan never got a nosebleed….constant.

  396. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326739"][quote comment="326716"][quote comment="326703"]Maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and we are in the midst of a course correction to stop it? [/quote]

    If you believe that there is such a thing as “course correction” then you don’t believe in WHH. Correct?

    Because in the “whatever happened happened” theory, Sayid ALWAYS shot Ben and Jack ALWAYS refused to operate. The purge ALWAYS happened. Can’t be corrected.

    (To my mind, only Desmond can potentially course correct. Though when he tried it with Charlie, it didn’t work.)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++=
    Actually I think whatever happened happened is different than…whatever happened ALWAYS happened. In other words incidental things changed but the important things didn’t. I think this is the first time the losties are in the 70’s as their 2000’s selves. I don’t think its a time loop because I don’t think they keep coming back to the 70’s after going home, living their live till they get on 815, go thru hell, skip thru time, end up in the 70’s, go back home, get on 815,…….

    IMO, course correcting is fixing an event that was supposed to happen but didn’t. Desmond wasn’t course correcting for Charlie, fate kept coming at Charlie until he died because he was supposed to and Desmond was stopping fate NOT course correcting.

    Therefore, my theory is that IF they stop the purge…it is a course correction because the purge wasn’t supposed to happen.[/quote]
    ________

    I don’t really get it about Des and CHarlie. I think Charlie flipping that switch is what needs to be course corrected. He was already supposed to die and if Des had let him, then he would have never done saved them all. They might be back in time now to be enlightened on why it was so important for them to never leave in the first place. I don’t know. I am confusing myself again. I am just still not convinced that it’s the purge that they are supposed to stop. Maybe it’s because deep inside, I believe Albert is a good guy and we may find out that Dharma was up to something pretty bad that needed to be stopped. JMO.

  397. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326742"][quote comment="326738"]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I’ll be kind.

    I have said in the past that is why Dan never got a nosebleed….constant.[/quote]

    _____

    I meant to quote more than this. Does that mean the nosebleeds stopped because now that they are in 1977 there are constants everywhere because they were there already?

  398. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326738"]
    If Ellie is Ms. Hawking and is on the Island in ‘77 then little Danny is there; Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds but neither does Theresa.

    8) Jim
    ______________________________________________________

    First time poster.. please be kind!

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    Could be Saba, and welcome!

  399. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326587"]
    BTW, the crapping nickels comment…haaalarious….where did you come up with that number? 27 nickels? LOL.[/quote]

    I think that is what Hurley said his dog “did” after eating a bunch of coins (while he and Sun were waiting to see if Vincent ate Sun’s ring).

    : ) P

  400. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326744"][quote comment="326742"][quote comment="326738"]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I’ll be kind.

    I have said in the past that is why Dan never got a nosebleed….constant.[/quote]

    _____

    I meant to quote more than this. Does that mean the nosebleeds stopped because now that they are in 1977 there are constants everywhere because they were there already?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    IMO, no. The TD symtoms came from unstable TT, once the TT stopped…the syptoms stopped.

    Constants were needed when the concious TT was out of control, so I associate the same syptom to the out of control physical TT.

  401. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326746"][quote comment="326587"]
    BTW, the crapping nickels comment…haaalarious….where did you come up with that number? 27 nickels? LOL.[/quote]

    I think that is what Hurley said his dog “did” after eating a bunch of coins (while he and Sun were waiting to see if Vincent ate Sun’s ring).

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Oh yeah…remember that now. LOL.

  402. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326734"][quote comment="326728"][quote comment="326629"]Ok..I think I just cracked and atom over here. IF the 108 lop theory is in fact true, Then I finally know why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him.

    Because he is the ONLY person to ever arrive on the island DURING that 108 loop who we know wasn’t there before( well up to this point)[/quote]

    Didn’t the flight 815 survivors all come to the island during the 108 loop?[/quote]
    ****** nope that’s when desmond didn’t enter the code in on time and the loop stopped and the loop stopped and caused it to crash.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    How about Juliet, Danielle, or Inman?

  403. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326747"][quote comment="326744"][quote comment="326742"][quote comment="326738"]
    +++++++++++++++++

    Constants were needed when the concious TT was out of control, so I associate the same syptom to the out of control physical TT.[/quote]
    _____

    I just read that and burst out laughing. People that don’t watch this show probably think we are a bunch of nuts! When time travel is out of contol? LMAO. I would think ANY TT is out of control! If I were Kate and them I would be popping Xanax like crazy right about now! They would have me in the Dharma Looney bin! Yet there they all are, just chillin and saving little evil kids. Anyway, just had to throw that in there.

    Thx for the answer. I get it now.

  404. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326726"]

    Now Ben cant remember what happens to him before the reincarnation. [/quote]
    Good post wallyp. I am not sure if Ben can’t remember EVERYTHING that happens before this or just the incident with Sayid. That remains to be seen.

  405. Hammer says:

    LOL, Tasha. Agreed any TT is out of control. Lucky for us geeks that we now know that a frozen donkey wheel knocked of its axis is bad ju-ju. :)

  406. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326738"]

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    Welcome and good point. Faraday interacted with his constant while skipping through time, so does that “reset” his nosebleed problem?

  407. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326718"][quote comment="326713"]

    Response to comment 311- You missed the whole point of my argument. [/quote] No I didn’t, just correcting your fact that the freighter was in 2004, not 2007.
    [quote comment="326713"] I AM NOT convinced that Ellie is Faraday’s mother. The only proof we have is the enhanced version of the episodes which Darlton have stated are not entirely accurate. [/quote]

    Agreed. But in the convo with Desmond she never denied not being Faraday’s mom. I guess it is like assuming Widmore was the island leader for 30 years when he NEVER actually said that. I guess you can have it both ways though.[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Hawking also NEVER CONFIRMED that she was Faraday’s mother either. Whether or not Widmore was the leader is beside the point. He did state that he helped protect the island for 30 years. He could not have been much older than 17-18 in 1954 which in my mind would be the age that someone could actively help protect the island. Sorta like being in the army fighting for your island/country once you are 18.

  408. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326738"]This is one of things where some people want an absolute declaration of fact; the wan Ms. Hawking to hold her hand up and say, “I am Daniel’s mother.” Don’t hold your breath.

    Daniel was in his late-twenties/early-thirties at Oxford in 1996. So call his birth year late-sixties/early-seventies.

    If Ellie is Ms. Hawking and is on the Island in ‘77 then little Danny is there; Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds but neither does Theresa.

    8) Jim
    ______________________________________________________

    First time poster.. please be kind!

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    The constant argument has played out on this blog forever. The only explination about someone needing a constant was form Faraday. It pertained to the concious mind travelling through time not the actual body/person. People have been confusing the time travelling that Desmond did when on the helicopter (also Faraday’s rat time travel maze adventure) and the time travelling that the island and the people on it were doing. To me they are two different types of time travelling. Which doesn’t explain Daniel’s lack of time travelling nosebleeds.

  409. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326755"][quote comment="326738"]
    The constant argument has played out on this blog forever. The only explination about someone needing a constant was form Faraday. It pertained to the concious mind travelling through time not the actual body/person. People have been confusing the time travelling that Desmond did when on the helicopter (also Faraday’s rat time travel maze adventure) and the time travelling that the island and the people on it were doing. To me they are two different types of time travelling. Which doesn’t explain Daniel’s lack of time travelling nosebleeds.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    This is true HOWEVER the first thing Daniel did when they FIRST flashed/island moved was to ask for the location of the nearest MAN MADE object/structure/whatever. I believe he was seeking a “constant” of sorts – something to orient them in time (to see WHEN they were). A constant was still needed. I am thinking that Daniel was THE MOST anchored in time – had the best handle on it so to speak – and THAT explains his lack of nosebleeds. Not much of a theory, I know, just my thoughts. :)

  410. wally p says:

    [quote comment="326749"][quote comment="326734"][quote comment="326728"][quote comment="326629"]Ok..I think I just cracked and atom over here. IF the 108 lop theory is in fact true, Then I finally know why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him.

    Because he is the ONLY person to ever arrive on the island DURING that 108 loop who we know wasn’t there before( well up to this point)[/quote]

    Didn’t the flight 815 survivors all come to the island during the 108 loop?[/quote]
    ****** nope that’s when desmond didn’t enter the code in on time and the loop stopped and the loop stopped and caused it to crash.[/quote]
    ++++++++++
    How about Juliet, Danielle, or Inman?[/quote]
    *********************
    …perhapss? (wait which one is Inman?…) there was a similar misstep in the button pushing then too. SO this would let a couple of people outside the loop (Danielle, and the 815’rs—not JUliet, she was brought in a different way) Desmond only stopped the loop temporarily…and allowed the plane in, then the loop started again, but now with the 815rs.

  411. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326754"]
    Hawking also NEVER CONFIRMED that she was Faraday’s mother either. Whether or not Widmore was the leader is beside the point. He did state that he helped protect the island for 30 years. He could not have been much older than 17-18 in 1954 which in my mind would be the age that someone could actively help protect the island. Sorta like being in the army fighting for your island/country once you are 18.[/quote]
    Agreed on all points. IMO, helping protect the island is not the same as being the leader.

  412. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326755"] To me they are two different types of time travelling. Which doesn’t explain Daniel’s lack of time travelling nosebleeds.[/quote]

    Which is exactly why I said:

    “Constants were needed when the concious TT was out of control, so I associate the same syptom to the out of control physical TT.”

    By out of control physical TT, I mean the skipping FDW.

  413. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326742"][quote comment="326738"]This is one of things where some people want an absolute declaration of fact; the wan Ms. Hawking to hold her hand up and say, “I am Daniel’s mother.” Don’t hold your breath.

    Daniel was in his late-twenties/early-thirties at Oxford in 1996. So call his birth year late-sixties/early-seventies.

    If Ellie is Ms. Hawking and is on the Island in ‘77 then little Danny is there; Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds but neither does Theresa.

    8) Jim
    ______________________________________________________

    First time poster.. please be kind!

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I’ll be kind.

    I have said in the past that is why Dan never got a nosebleed….constant.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Hammer please read comment 408 and explain to me why you would relate the two different time travels? One was actual people travelling through time and the other, Desmond, the rat, Theresa, the many freighter folks who’s only form of time travel was there concious minds which is where the need for constants was brought up. Daniel clearly stated in an episode this year that he believed that the nosebleeds were a result of previous time spent on the island. He mentioned nothing during this time about the need for constants to help stop the dangers associated with temporal displacement. Why would he not mention it or say something about him not having nosebleeds because of his past experience with Desmond. The constantthing has been blow out of porpotion. It was only mentioned during Desmonds MIND travelling to 1996 to meet with Daniel and no other time. People just want to associate it with the other form of time travel to just simply explain things away but it seems way more important than that. Once again, Daniel would/should have explained the need for constants if he thought it would help stop what was happening.

  414. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326755"]
    The constant argument has played out on this blog forever. The only explination about someone needing a constant was form Faraday. It pertained to the concious mind travelling through time not the actual body/person. People have been confusing the time travelling that Desmond did when on the helicopter (also Faraday’s rat time travel maze adventure) and the time travelling that the island and the people on it were doing. To me they are two different types of time travelling. Which doesn’t explain Daniel’s lack of time travelling nosebleeds.[/quote]

    Personally, I think that *if* the two kinds of nosebleeds were NOT related, the writers would have used some OTHER way to show temporal displacement in ONE of the instances. For example, Desmond and Minkowski could have lost hair or turned green through consciousness travel temporal displacement.

    Because the writers show that TD in consciousness travel AND with time travel BOTH incur nosebleeds, I think it is important. The fact that Daniel didn’t get nosebleeds might be because he was never on the island before (he said himself that it might have to do with how long you’ve been on the island – which in LIKELIHOOD was meant to throw us off), or it might be because he was the only person who HAD been on the island to have contact with his (pre-determined) constant.

    JMO

    : ) P

  415. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326747"][quote comment="326744"][quote comment="326742"][quote comment="326738"]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I’ll be kind.

    I have said in the past that is why Dan never got a nosebleed….constant.[/quote]

    _____

    I meant to quote more than this. Does that mean the nosebleeds stopped because now that they are in 1977 there are constants everywhere because they were there already?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    IMO, no. The TD symtoms came from unstable TT, once the TT stopped…the syptoms stopped.

    Constants were needed when the concious TT was out of control, so I associate the same syptom to the out of control physical TT.[/quote]
    __________________________
    For convience you associate the concious TT with the physical TT but have no proof that one ACTUALLY relates to the other.

  416. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326758"]
    …perhapss? (wait which one is Inman?…) there was a similar misstep in the button pushing then too.
    [/quote]
    There was? I know there was an “incident” but that was why the button pushing was first introduced.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Incident

    Inman was the one who pushed the button b4 Des arrived.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Inman

  417. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326758"][quote comment="326749"][quote comment="326734"][quote comment="326728"][quote comment="326629"][/quote]

    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    …perhapss? (wait which one is Inman?…)[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Kelvin Inman – pushed the button before Desmond got there. Desmond fought with him when he tried to leave on Des’s boat. He was also in the military and got Sayid to torture his Iraqi commander to get information for him.

  418. Tasha says:

    A little more on Charle’s statement and sorry if this was brought up during that episodes thread, but JMO reading about it here…..

    Do you think that “they protected the island for 30 years,” would have ended when Dharma people decided to move in? So they only protected it for 30 years before Dharma.

    Also let’s say he was a leader for 30 years, he could have been a born leader. Depending how they look at their so called leaders, I don’t think it has to be like the military. Princes are born to be kings and can become a king from a very young age. Probably born in 1942, he would leave the island in around 72.

    Then again, for all we know, Charles was NEVER the leader, but was SUPPOSED to be and he just keeps saying that cause he sees himself as the leader and Ben took over and he is mad.

    Point is it’s all specualation and we don’t really know for sure what Charles meant by his statement. Him saying they protected the island for 30 years could be that the “Others” protected it and he was part of that for a little bit of time. If what he is saying is true, then who protected it before them?

    Who is Hanso and when are we gonna meet him?

  419. Hammer says:

    Duke, you also have no proof that they are not related….it’s a theory and you can’t change my mind…only the show can.

  420. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326764"]
    For convience you associate the concious TT with the physical TT but have no proof that one ACTUALLY relates to the other.[/quote]
    Except, as PJ stated, for the nosebleeds. Which I agree with. Good point PJ.

  421. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326769"][quote comment="326764"]
    For convience you associate the concious TT with the physical TT but have no proof that one ACTUALLY relates to the other.[/quote]
    Except, as PJ stated, for the nosebleeds. Which I agree with. Good point PJ.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Also the fact that just before Charlotte died, she began concious TT too.

  422. RGS says:

    My take on Richard’s knowledge about Locke TT and thus needing to give him the compass, is that a conversation takes place (which we have yet to see, or may never see the actual conversation and it will be left for us to assume and debate) between Locke and him sometime post 2007. Something like:

    Locke: So the amazing thing was that right before Ethan was going to finish me off, I flashed and was laid in the clearing and in those few minutes laid there, YOU showed up, bandaged me up, and told me to give you that compass.

    Richard: I showed up? How did I know you were there?

    Locke: That’s not important, the important thing is you MUST give me this compass so that I can give it to you, when I flash back to 1954, to prove that I already know who you are, and that I’m sent from Jacob.

    (And thus a chicken and egg paradox is again created).

  423. wally p says:

    [quote comment="326765"][quote comment="326758"]
    …perhapss? (wait which one is Inman?…) there was a similar misstep in the button pushing then too.
    [/quote]
    There was? I know there was an “incident” but that was why the button pushing was first introduced.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Incident

    Inman was the one who pushed the button b4 Des arrived.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Inman%5B/quote%5D

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Ok, thats who I thought he was. I agree about the incident. I’m saying that when the 815 crashed Desmond came close to not pressing the button, but he still pushed it. Maybe something similar happened when Danielle arrived there (Radzinsky missed it), and Kelvin, and maybe even Desmond. (although Kelvin could have been associated with Dharma and brought in by sub like Juliet- think it was ’91, and who knows with Desmond.)

  424. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326768"]Duke, you also have no proof that they are not related….it’s a theory and you can’t change my mind…only the show can.[/quote]
    ___________________
    Not trying to change the almighty Hammer’s mind. I guess I just need more proof in some things that people just take for granted. Like the TT affecting people the same way, the need for people who time travel physically needing a constant, and Hawking being Faraday’s mother. Sorry if I am not so easily swayed by the all knowing, all mighty Hammer’s OPINIONS. :P

    I do not recall Desmond, the rat Eloise, Theresa, or any of the affected freighter folks having nosebleeds which I may be wrong about but the lack of nosebleeds would lead me to believe that the TT’s are somewhat different in how they affect someone.

  425. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326770"][quote comment="326769"][quote comment="326764"]
    For convience you associate the concious TT with the physical TT but have no proof that one ACTUALLY relates to the other.[/quote]
    Except, as PJ stated, for the nosebleeds. Which I agree with. Good point PJ.[/quote]
    +++++++++++
    Also the fact that just before Charlotte died, she began concious TT too.[/quote]
    ______________________________
    That is your opinion that Charlotte concious TT as she began to die. I think it was more simply a memories that she was recalling you because Faraday has said that what happens happens so her memory that a crazy man told her never to come back had already happened. The problem with this blog is everyone bows down at the almighty Hammer’s four toed feet and worships everything the kid says. Hmm…kinda like some losties do with the almighty Faraday. :P

  426. Hammer says:

    I too am sorry that I am not swayed by the almight Duke’s opinions and his greater ability to resist believing what is been put in front of him.

  427. RGS says:

    [quote comment="326719"]
    The other aspect is that there’s a lot of time between the most recent episode (1977) and the purge (1992), so how would they deal with that on the show. More time travelling? Or just skip ahead 15 years in the storytelling?[/quote]

    I think we are pretty much assured another wheel turn, and thus time skip. 1) I think Jin and Sun have to reunite, 2) I don’t think the Losties die in the purge, 3) Widmore is supposedly tricked into leaving the island, and I’m guessing that trick has something to do with turning the wheel.

  428. Tasha says:

    Time–it’s like a street, all right? We can move forward on that street, we can move in reverse, but we cannot ever create a new street. If we try to do anything different, we will fail every time. Whatever happened, happened.

    I just read that. Thought I would refresh minds LOL.

  429. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326778"]Time–it’s like a street, all right? We can move forward on that street, we can move in reverse, but we cannot ever create a new street. If we try to do anything different, we will fail every time. Whatever happened, happened.

    I just read that. Thought I would refresh minds LOL.[/quote]

    FWIW, Tasha, that “street” has also been called a “string” and a “stream” depending on whose transcript you look at. Personally, I like the string analogy, because you can move a string more easily than a street or a stream *g*.

    : ) P

  430. Mia says:

    I am posting this over from the “He’s Our You” thread written by Flyboy…

    “Anyways, the losties that we currently see on the island can be killed and that does not change the timeline. The reason is that the losties we see on the island are their 30 to 40 year old versions of themselves. Somewhere on the mainland there are little version of them that have yet to grow up and fulfill their destiny of getting to the island (if these versions were killed then that changes the future). The losties on the island can die because from their perspective (their individual observer perspective) they have already lived through all the future, post 1977 to 2007, so that for them is their past and it has already happened. I know that is very confusing but I am 100% convinced that it is correct as to this show’s interpretation of time travel with no paradox. Great show and I am very excited to see how some other events turn out. I will also put my name in the hat for the Ben is not dead yet group. Ben has to survive this because from Ben’s perspective (individual observer’s perspective) he has not yet lived out the events between 1977 and 2007 so he must still fulfill his destiny. I also think it is extremely ironic that Sayid thinks he is saving the future by killing Ben, but he is actually most likely creating the impetus for Ben to become an other… awesome!”

    It makes total sense – where are you Flyboy?????

  431. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326773"]
    I do not recall Desmond, the rat Eloise, Theresa, or any of the affected freighter folks having nosebleeds which I may be wrong about but the lack of nosebleeds would lead me to believe that the TT’s are somewhat different in how they affect someone.[/quote]

    Eloise’s nose bled. Minkowski’s nose bled. I believe Desmond’s did while ON the freighter. We don’t know if Regina (who took the half-gainer with a full twist off the freighter) had a nose bleed or not.

    : ) P

  432. Leslie says:

    I love this show and enjoy the posts very much. Something that is not even plot significant, but caught my attention, is that several posters made reference to vampires. That is exactly what I thought when Richard made his “he will always be one of us, do you still want me to take him” speech. It was kind of like how vampires can’t come into your home unless you invite them.

  433. RGS says:

    [quote comment="326739"] [quote comment="326716"]
    If you believe that there is such a thing as “course correction” then you don’t believe in WHH. Correct?

    Because in the “whatever happened happened” theory, Sayid ALWAYS shot Ben and Jack ALWAYS refused to operate. The purge ALWAYS happened. Can’t be corrected.

    (To my mind, only Desmond can potentially course correct. Though when he tried it with Charlie, it didn’t work.)[/quote]

    I agree that “course correction” and WHH are mutually exclusive. (but I also don’t believe Desmond course corrected anything).

    [quote comment="326739"]
    +++++++++++++++=
    Actually I think whatever happened happened is different than…whatever happened ALWAYS happened. In other words incidental things changed but the important things didn’t. I think this is the first time the losties are in the 70’s as their 2000’s selves. I don’t think its a time loop because I don’t think they keep coming back to the 70’s after going home, living their live till they get on 815, go thru hell, skip thru time, end up in the 70’s, go back home, get on 815,…….

    Therefore, my theory is that IF they stop the purge…it is a course correction because the purge wasn’t supposed to happen.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^
    The Losties would not necessarily have to be in a loop, to be visiting 1977 as their 2000 selves. They dip in, which is what always happened… do their things, which is what they’ve always done (the ‘true’ 70’s folks would be eyeswitness to this)…, and dip out (via wheel turn) and arrive in 2007 (likely).

    Since the purge would be a major event, and not an incidental one, I also believe it HAS to happen.

  434. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326780"]I am posting this over from the “He’s Our You” thread written by Flyboy…

    “Anyways, the losties that we currently see on the island can be killed and that does not change the timeline. The reason is that the losties we see on the island are their 30 to 40 year old versions of themselves. Somewhere on the mainland there are little version of them that have yet to grow up and fulfill their destiny of getting to the island (if these versions were killed then that changes the future). The losties on the island can die because from their perspective (their individual observer perspective) they have already lived through all the future, post 1977 to 2007, so that for them is their past and it has already happened. I know that is very confusing but I am 100% convinced that it is correct as to this show’s interpretation of time travel with no paradox. Great show and I am very excited to see how some other events turn out. I will also put my name in the hat for the Ben is not dead yet group. Ben has to survive this because from Ben’s perspective (individual observer’s perspective) he has not yet lived out the events between 1977 and 2007 so he must still fulfill his destiny. I also think it is extremely ironic that Sayid thinks he is saving the future by killing Ben, but he is actually most likely creating the impetus for Ben to become an other… awesome!”

    It makes total sense – where are you Flyboy?????[/quote]

    _____

    I think so too. Is Flyboy Miles??

  435. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326716"][quote comment="326703"]Maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and we are in the midst of a course correction to stop it? [/quote]

    If you believe that there is such a thing as “course correction” then you don’t believe in WHH. Correct?

    Because in the “whatever happened happened” theory, Sayid ALWAYS shot Ben and Jack ALWAYS refused to operate. The purge ALWAYS happened. Can’t be corrected.

    (To my mind, only Desmond can potentially course correct. Though when he tried it with Charlie, it didn’t work.)[/quote]
    +++++++++
    In my opinion WHH. Everything we have seen on the show has happened. Everything up untill 2008 on the show has happened. We may not have seen it all yet but everything we have seen already happened and cannot change.

    Course correction happens in the future only. If something was supposed to happen and didn’t then it will course correct “in the future” which for the show is after 316 crashes in 2008.
    The purge happened. There cannot be a course correction to stop the purge. If the Dharma people who died in the purge were supposed to solve or discover something then those who crashed on flt. 316 could have been sent to solve or discover that something. Actually those on 815 could have been sent to do it but as of 2008 they have not succeded.

  436. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326726"]
    -I give it up to the Widmore/Hawking joint leadership theory. Would explain their sibling vibe… and ALSO the Locke/Ben sibling vibe. Maybe this is what it takes to finally bring these two together. Black and white stones.
    [/quote]
    At first, that’s what I thought, and am definitely leaning toward that. But I have been thinking about 2 other possibilities.

    1. Ellie is actually on the island and Charles is not. So Eric(?)would ask about the one that is there first.

    2. Ellie is the leader of one faction, either Dharma or the hostiles, and Widmore is the leader of the other faction. Ellie vs. Widmore. Maybe Eric(?) thought Richard should check with leaders of BOTH sides b4 converting someone from one side to the other.

  437. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326753"][quote comment="326738"]

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    Welcome and good point. Faraday interacted with his constant while skipping through time, so does that “reset” his nosebleed problem?[/quote]
    Desmond was off the island when TT started and FAraday couldn’t interact with him then.

  438. LostJunkie says:

    If they are vampires, they couldn’t be out in the daytime, which we’ve CLEARLY seen.

  439. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326757"]
    This is true HOWEVER the first thing Daniel did when they FIRST flashed/island moved was to ask for the location of the nearest MAN MADE object/structure/whatever. I believe he was seeking a “constant” of sorts – something to orient them in time (to see WHEN they were). A constant was still needed. I am thinking that Daniel was THE MOST anchored in time – had the best handle on it so to speak – and THAT explains his lack of nosebleeds. Not much of a theory, I know, just my thoughts. :)[/quote]

    I think the main reason Daniel was looking for a man-made object was so he could determine when they were. For example by seeing the crater where the hatch was, they knew they were at some time after the hatch imploded. As much as it pains me to agree with Duke ( :) ), I don’t think constants have anything to do with physical time travel – he never once suggested Charlotte or any of the other time-travellers find a constant. He only brought it up in relation to the consciousness time travelling Desmond did.

  440. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326785"]
    Course correction happens in the future only. If something was supposed to happen and didn’t then it will course correct “in the future” which for the show is after 316 crashes in 2008.
    The purge happened. There cannot be a course correction to stop the purge. If the Dharma people who died in the purge were supposed to solve or discover something then those who crashed on flt. 316 could have been sent to solve or discover that something. Actually those on 815 could have been sent to do it but as of 2008 they have not succeded.[/quote]
    I disagree about course correction happening in the future only. We saw Desmond go back in time, go to the jewelry store and buy the engagement ring from Penny, whereas the first time around he did not buy the ring and broke things off with Penny. The course correction that then happens is he throws away the ring and breaks things off with Penny.

  441. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326776"][quote comment="326719"]
    The other aspect is that there’s a lot of time between the most recent episode (1977) and the purge (1992), so how would they deal with that on the show. More time travelling? Or just skip ahead 15 years in the storytelling?[/quote]

    I think we are pretty much assured another wheel turn, and thus time skip. 1) I think Jin and Sun have to reunite, 2) I don’t think the Losties die in the purge, 3) Widmore is supposedly tricked into leaving the island, and I’m guessing that trick has something to do with turning the wheel.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Agreed on all 3 items

  442. LINS says:

    I am of the opinion that Ellie really is Daniel’s mother…when Des had that vision/whatever of Daniel telling him that he needed to go to Oxford and find his mother, first of all, it really happened because we saw Daniel knocking on the door and Des answered…and then, when Des went to see Widmore, didn’t he tell him that he needed to see Daniel’s mother and Widmore sent him to Hawking in L.A.? Of course, Widmore could have been lying and just sent him to the person he knew could help him, but to me it made it pretty clear that Ellie/Hawking is Daniel’s mother…how Ellie and Widmore are related remains a mystery to me…

  443. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326790"][quote comment="326757"]
    This is true HOWEVER the first thing Daniel did when they FIRST flashed/island moved was to ask for the location of the nearest MAN MADE object/structure/whatever. I believe he was seeking a “constant” of sorts – something to orient them in time (to see WHEN they were). A constant was still needed. I am thinking that Daniel was THE MOST anchored in time – had the best handle on it so to speak – and THAT explains his lack of nosebleeds. Not much of a theory, I know, just my thoughts. :)[/quote]

    I think the main reason Daniel was looking for a man-made object was so he could determine when they were. For example by seeing the crater where the hatch was, they knew they were at some time after the hatch imploded.

    As much as it pains me to agree with Duke ( :) ), I don’t think constants have anything to do with physical time travel – he never once suggested Charlotte or any of the other time-travellers find a constant. He only brought it up in relation to the consciousness time travelling Desmond did.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    I’m not sure we are saying something different here ToeKnee. I believe that the POINT of a constant was to orient one in time (resettles the gray matter somehow to know that). Finding a man-made object to orient them in time would serve that purpose – would be their “constant” if you will. That’s all. A small tie-in, but a significant one.

  444. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326787"]
    Desmond was off the island when TT started and FAraday couldn’t interact with him then.[/quote]

    Desmond was off island when TT started, yes. But in one of the TT flashes, Daniel visited Desmond in the Swan station (sometime between 2001 and September 22, 2004).

    : ) P

  445. Tasha says:

    When he told De in Oxford he needed a constant, he never said it had to be a PERSON. Desmond asked if the constant ould be SOMEONE. SO I am thinking that it doesn’t have to be a person, or that’s how it seemed at first, but things seem to change on this show.

    I thought it was kind of confirmed in a podcast I listened to that Elloise(Assuming it’s Ellie,) is Dan’s mom. I may be wrong though. It may have been an “enhanced” podcast. LOL J/K

  446. Tasha says:

    Here is what is said, doesn’t say it HAS to be a person.

    DESMOND: Wh…what do you mean, anchor?

    DAN: Something familiar in both times. All this, see this is variables, it’s random, it’s chaotic. Every equation needs stability, something known. It’s called a constant. Desmond, you have no constant. When you go to the future, nothing there is familiar. So if you want to stop this, then you need to find something there…something that you really, really care about….that also exists back here, in 1996.

    DESMOND: This constant…can it be a person?

    DAN: Yeah, maybe. But you have to make some kind of contact. Didn’t you say you were off on a boat, in the middle of nowhere?

  447. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326790"]
    As much as it pains me to agree with Duke ( :) ), I don’t think constants have anything to do with physical time travel – he never once suggested Charlotte or any of the other time-travellers find a constant. He only brought it up in relation to the consciousness time travelling Desmond did.[/quote]

    I don’t have a definitive opinion about TT v CT and either’s need for a constant. However, playing devil’s advocate for a moment, I believe it is possible that Daniel didn’t bring up constants because he knew most of them had NO constants. To my understanding, a constant had to be contact with someone / something in your “own” time. Juliet and Sawyer might have been able to connect with the hatch or the camp, but none of the others could do that on the island.

    : ) P

  448. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="326796"]
    I’m not sure we are saying something different here ToeKnee. I believe that the POINT of a constant was to orient one in time (resettles the gray matter somehow to know that). Finding a man-made object to orient them in time would serve that purpose – would be their “constant” if you will. That’s all. A small tie-in, but a significant one.[/quote]
    I see what you’re saying, and I think we are basically in agreement. I had thought that in “The Constant”, he was telling Desmond to find someone or thing that meant something of some significance to him. So in finding a random man-made object, that wouldn’t have any meaning to many of the time-travellers. But I can see that orienting oneself in time would perhaps alleviate nosebleeds.

  449. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326793"][quote comment="326785"]
    Course correction happens in the future only. If something was supposed to happen and didn’t then it will course correct “in the future” which for the show is after 316 crashes in 2008.
    The purge happened. There cannot be a course correction to stop the purge. If the Dharma people who died in the purge were supposed to solve or discover something then those who crashed on flt. 316 could have been sent to solve or discover that something. Actually those on 815 could have been sent to do it but as of 2008 they have not succeded.[/quote]
    I disagree about course correction happening in the future only. We saw Desmond go back in time, go to the jewelry store and buy the engagement ring from Penny, whereas the first time around he did not buy the ring and broke things off with Penny. The course correction that then happens is he throws away the ring and breaks things off with Penny.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Yes, but Desmond is special. Perhaps he is special because he is the only one who has time traveled in his mind and survived. “Regular” time travel, in your body, is what Sawyer and all did. That always happened. “Mind” time travel is what Daniel did and that makes him special. Maiby.

  450. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326775"]I too am sorry that I am not swayed by the almight Duke’s opinions and his greater ability to resist _what is been put in front of him.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I thought you were more clever than to use my own comments about you against me. I guess I was wrong. The differences we have here is that you think that the information has been put in front of you whereas I do not think that way. It is as simple as that. I am sure I will get blasted because I questioned Hammer’s thoughts and did not take them for gospel. Hopefully, if we are lucky you will once again go into your “radio silence” again and let some other people have opinions that differ from you. Sorry to question your ideas Hammer. Now go ahead and runaway and let the adults talk. I thought my comments were ok because I put the little “face” at the end which If I remember correctly Hammer instructed me to do so people would “get” thatI was being funny. Oh well, guess not.

  451. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326787"][quote comment="326753"][quote comment="326738"]

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    Welcome and good point. Faraday interacted with his constant while skipping through time, so does that “reset” his nosebleed problem?[/quote]
    Desmond was off the island when TT started and FAraday couldn’t interact with him then.[/quote]
    ________________________
    Desmond was not off the island when his concious mind time travelled he was on the way to the freighter with Frank and Sayid.

  452. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326790"][quote comment="326757"]
    This is true HOWEVER the first thing Daniel did when they FIRST flashed/island moved was to ask for the location of the nearest MAN MADE object/structure/whatever. I believe he was seeking a “constant” of sorts – something to orient them in time (to see WHEN they were). A constant was still needed. I am thinking that Daniel was THE MOST anchored in time – had the best handle on it so to speak – and THAT explains his lack of nosebleeds. Not much of a theory, I know, just my thoughts. :)[/quote]

    I think the main reason Daniel was looking for a man-made object was so he could determine when they were. For example by seeing the crater where the hatch was, they knew they were at some time after the hatch imploded.

    As much as it pains me to agree with Duke ( :) ), I don’t think constants have anything to do with physical time travel – he never once suggested Charlotte or any of the other time-travellers find a constant. He only brought it up in relation to the consciousness time travelling Desmond did.[/quote]
    ______________________________
    I do not understand why it pains you to agree with me. BUt I do appreciate your thoughts, Toeknee. and yes I am kidding, your statement does not bother me. I guess I need to make that clearer from now on because some people, yes that means you Hammer, cannot take my giving them a hard time.

  453. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326798"]When he told De in Oxford he needed a constant, he never said it had to be a PERSON. Desmond asked if the constant ould be SOMEONE. SO I am thinking that it doesn’t have to be a person, or that’s how it seemed at first, but things seem to change on this show.

    I thought it was kind of confirmed in a podcast I listened to that Elloise(Assuming it’s Ellie,) is Dan’s mom. I may be wrong though. It may have been an “enhanced” podcast. LOL J/K[/quote]
    _______________________[quote comment="326799"]Here is what is said, doesn’t say it HAS to be a person.

    DESMOND: Wh…what do you mean, anchor?

    DAN: Something familiar in both times. All this, see this is variables, it’s random, it’s chaotic. Every equation needs stability, something known. It’s called a constant. Desmond, you have no constant. When you go to the future, nothing there is familiar. So if you want to stop this, then you need to find something there…something that you really, really care about….that also exists back here, in 1996.

    DESMOND: This constant…can it be a person?

    DAN: Yeah, maybe. But you have to make some kind of contact. Didn’t you say you were off on a boat, in the middle of nowhere?[/quote]
    _________________________

    The key line for me is something that you really care about. The whole going to the hatch thing would not qualify IMO. It was meant to help determine when they were.

  454. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326806"][quote comment="326787"][quote comment="326753"][quote comment="326738"]

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    Welcome and good point. Faraday interacted with his constant while skipping through time, so does that “reset” his nosebleed problem?[/quote]
    Desmond was off the island when TT started and FAraday couldn’t interact with him then.[/quote]
    ________________________
    Desmond was not off the island when his concious mind time travelled he was on the way to the freighter with Frank and Sayid.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Ummm the freighter was not ON the island.

    Sorry I’m not going anywhere.

  455. Tasha says:

    Scratch the Podcast thing LOL. I still think it’s safe to say she is his mom. To many things in front of us saying she IS and not enough saying she isn’t. As usual…my opinion:)

  456. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326800"][quote comment="326790"]
    As much as it pains me to agree with Duke ( :) ), I don’t think constants have anything to do with physical time travel – he never once suggested Charlotte or any of the other time-travellers find a constant. He only brought it up in relation to the consciousness time travelling Desmond did.[/quote]

    I don’t have a definitive opinion about TT v CT and either’s need for a constant. However, playing devil’s advocate for a moment, I believe it is possible that Daniel didn’t bring up constants because he knew most of them had NO constants. To my understanding, a constant had to be contact with someone / something in your “own” time. Juliet and Sawyer might have been able to connect with the hatch or the camp, but none of the others could do that on the island.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Yes, IMO…which is a theory that ANYONE can disagree with……

    Dan didn’t bring it up because they were skipping. Hard to find a constant in every time. He was preoccuppied with trying to find help and stopping the skipping before his love Charlotte died.

  457. Rumblestilskin says:

    I’d just like the statue mystery solved.

    Well, also I’d like it 2B confermed that Christian, Widmore, Jacob, and Richard are the good guys.

    I think it’s already clear that Ben lies almost every time he opens his mouth. Ellie is in leauge w/Ben, so if she and Widmore were ever close, they’re on the outs now.

    Also, I think the writers should come up with a reason for Kate, Sun, and Juliette to have to sport bikinis………..and maybe Sun has 2 wrestle w/Juliette 4 some reason : )

  458. Heidi says:

    So is Christian Shepherd Jacob?

  459. Heidi says:

    So is Christian Shepherd, Jacob?

  460. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326817"]So is Christian Shepherd, Jacob?[/quote]

    Christian Shepherd is Jack and Claire’s dad and Jacob is a mysterious guy that lives in a cabin whom Christain supposedly “speaks” for.

  461. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326817"]So is Christian Shepherd, Jacob?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I don’t think he is. I don’t have a suggestion of who is Jacob, but I don’t think it’s Christian because he told Locke he wasn’t.

  462. Rumblestilskin says:

    Im not sure about that either. I thought he was, but it was just brought 2 my attn in the above post that he told Locke that he only speaks 4 him.

    One thing I am sure of though is the bikini stuff : )

  463. Circus Mom says:

    It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.

  464. LostJunkie says:

    Shot in the dark…what if Jack’s grandfather is Jacob?

  465. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326826"]It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    That made me think of how their policy is to kill each other when they get caught by an enemy. Maybe their ‘souls’ go back to the temple and wait for a new assignment?

  466. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326809"][quote comment="326806"][quote comment="326787"][quote comment="326753"][quote comment="326738"]

    I think Daniel does not get nosebleeds because he has a constant in Desmond. All the others who DO get nosebleeds due to extended exposure to the island do not appear to have constants.
    This could then imply that little Faraday is there on the island in 1977 with Ellie, but then so is older physicist Faraday. So is he the one “lost” in a paradox?[/quote]
    Welcome and good point. Faraday interacted with his constant while skipping through time, so does that “reset” his nosebleed problem?[/quote]
    Desmond was off the island when TT started and FAraday couldn’t interact with him then.[/quote]
    ________________________
    Desmond was not off the island when his concious mind time travelled he was on the way to the freighter with Frank and Sayid.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Ummm the freighter was not ON the island.

    Sorry I’m not going anywhere.[/quote]
    _________________________
    Ok smartass. He was technically not touching the island when he time travelled. The almighty Hammer strikes again.

    You may not be going anywhere but you did run and hide last week. Learn to take some good natured ribbing.

  467. Rumblestilskin says:

    Awesome things 2 think about, LostJunkie and Circus Mom.

    I hadn’t concidered those things B4, and wouldnt dicount either of them.

  468. Steve says:

    [quote comment="326826"]It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]

    I agree that this theory has legs. I posted something similar earlier. Lets see where this idea takes us… Anyone else?

  469. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326826"]Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]

    It is definitely worth considering. D&C mentioned several times that LOST was NOT about time travel (before it was). I wonder if their joking about the “zombie season” was similarly prophetic?

    : ) P

  470. Rumblestilskin says:

    I meant discount.

    Also, I think Y’all and Hammer may B on a roll.

  471. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326831"][quote comment="326826"]It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    That made me think of how their policy is to kill each other when they get caught by an enemy. Maybe their ‘souls’ go back to the temple and wait for a new assignment?[/quote]
    ______________________
    I guess because Widmore killed that guy in 1954 that it is policy that they kill each other when they get caught. One incident doesn’t constitute policy IMO.

    Don’t even try to use the Ms. Klugh thing either. She practically begged for ole one eye to off her so I wouldn’t necessarily call that a policy. Ole one eye would have just offed her instead of her “begging” for it.

  472. Rumblestilskin says:

    Daaaaaaaamn!

    I guess Duke told you guyz!

    But seriously, I don’t know how old Duke is, but why does Patchey have 2 B referred to as old (or Ole). I mean, he’s not 50 or anything.

    What about Ol’ Widmore and Ol’ Ellie.

    Ok, its decided, his name is Patchey.

    J/K……Acting like Im trying 2 instigate : )

  473. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326826"]It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]
    _____

    Now that would be MY kind of show! Forget the time traveling bunnies! I hate “zombie” movies but I love the spirit possession! I totally believe in stuff like that! The Exorcist rocked! Or are we not talking about the same thing? Cause I want to see some souls going into other people. That would be awesome! Haitian Vodou!!

  474. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326838"][quote comment="326831"][quote comment="326826"]It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    That made me think of how their policy is to kill each other when they get caught by an enemy. Maybe their ‘souls’ go back to the temple and wait for a new assignment?[/quote]
    ______________________
    I guess because Widmore killed that guy in 1954 that it is policy that they kill each other when they get caught. One incident doesn’t constitute policy IMO.

    Don’t even try to use the Ms. Klugh thing either. She practically begged for ole one eye to off her so I wouldn’t necessarily call that a policy. Ole one eye would have just offed her instead of her “begging” for it.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I am going to use Klugh:
    Translated from Russian)

    –Beatrice: “We can’t risk it, you know the rules.”

    –Mikhail: “There’s still a way out.”

    –Beatrice: “We won’t let them into the territory. You know what to do. It is an order.”

    –Beatrice: “(English) Just do it, Mikhail!”

    (Mikhail takes aim at Beatrice)

    –Mikhail: “(English) Forgive me”

    (Mikhail shoots Beatrice)

    and up you one…Patchy tried to kill himself by running thru the fence too.

  475. adapa1 says:

    Steve I Love comment 366 (and circus moms 463)and haven’t been able to stop thinking about it since the start of this season. I think that issue has everything to do with the conscious TT PJ and Duke have been on.

    I think the nosebleeds on both methods of TT are do the proximity one has from the other version of himself AND the duration of consciousness in that version. Too long or too close leads to nosebleeds followed by death. Can’t have two versions of yourself in the 70’s right? Charlotte’s last words was a simple merging of consciousness with her younger self.
    If your future self dies in the past your consciousness is sent to that past version. Meaning charlotte’s mind went back to the kid version in the 70’s just as Desmonds would have been merged with his younger self had not Farraday saved him. Of course, if you do die and younger consciousness reboots itself into your younger version, you remember nothing.

    SO…I think Steve nailed it in #366, and that the others have the ability to unstick ones mind from time and send it to a past/future version of yourself …. OR *drum roll* another persons body or “Remember when we used to celebrate birthdays?”

    Maybe Richard sends the omen kids consciousness to the to the future version of Ben on the smaller island.

    I still say Jacobs consciousness was sent through time into John

  476. Hammer says:

    Good point adapa1. Could explain why she disappeared too, since it didn’t make a whole lot of sense that she disappeared from a skip. We haven’t seen Frogurt’s body to know for sure. :)

  477. Steve says:

    [quote comment="326848"]Steve I Love comment 366 (and circus moms 463)and haven’t been able to stop thinking about it since the start of this season.

    I think that issue has everything to do with the conscious TT PJ and Duke have been on.
    [/quote]

    I agree. I have been trying to disprove this theory since the beginning of the series, and so far i can’t find a flaw or break in the logic. Has anyone tried to look back into seasons 1-3 to see if any of our TT losties may have changed due a conscious TT jump.

    Also what’s up with the severed arm thing. That french guy Montand, Pierre Chang, and Roger Linus (Vincent brings the arm with van keys in hand). Come to think of it, why didn’t anyone pick-up Montand’s arm outside the temple?

  478. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="326848"]“Remember when we used to celebrate birthdays?”
    [/quote]

    Excellent!

    : ) P

  479. Steve says:

    This thought is remotely related to the possession theory. I found it interesting that Bens tumor is located in roughly the same place as the mark the Others put on Juliet. Could they have un-possessed juliet, and the base of the spine is the entry point? I know this is far fetched, but I have not had any beer today (Yet) and I am little off center.

  480. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326709"]

    Is it possible that is only one set of Others? They simply occupy the bodies, or image of the bodies, of those that they come across. it seems that Charles Widnmore, in 1954, was wearing the uniform of a U.S. Army soldier named “Jones”. .[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++
    Since we are ‘going there’, maybe when they take over a body, the face morphs as well so that they recognize each other. If we are going away from Alpert not aging…something has to explain why he always looks the same no matter what decade it is.

  481. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326830"]Shot in the dark…what if Jack’s grandfather is Jacob?[/quote]

    If you’re willing to add that to #475 I’ll back you on that wholeheartedly on that theory til the bitter ened…

    or atleast the next flash ;-)

  482. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326853"]This thought is remotely related to the possession theory. I found it interesting that Bens tumor is located in roughly the same place as the mark the Others put on Juliet. Could they have un-possessed juliet, and the base of the spine is the entry point? I know this is far fetched, but I have not had any beer today (Yet) and I am little off center.[/quote]

    Worry not young jedi… I’m on my first beer now and can pick up the slack. I’ve got a 32 ounce dharma can right here lol

  483. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326852"][quote comment="326848"]“Remember when we used to celebrate birthdays?”
    [/quote]

    Excellent!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    This isn’t to refute your theory…just to clarify what was said:

    Ben reminisced over a wooden doll he had received from Annie as a child, Richard entered and asked what it was. Ben explained that it was a birthday present and asked cryptically, “You do remember birthdays, don’t you, Richard?”, to which he received no response.

  484. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326854"][quote comment="326709"]

    Is it possible that is only one set of Others? They simply occupy the bodies, or image of the bodies, of those that they come across. it seems that Charles Widnmore, in 1954, was wearing the uniform of a U.S. Army soldier named “Jones”. .[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++
    Since we are ‘going there’, maybe when they take over a body, the face morphs as well so that they recognize each other. If we are going away from Alpert not aging…something has to explain why he always looks the same no matter what decade it is.[/quote]

    maybe Albert only sends his consciounes back the himself into the past. So he just keeps doing this. Remember he seemed oblivous to the tt concept…..I’ll bet the farm he knows how to unstick his mind

  485. Steve says:

    [quote comment="326854"][quote comment="326709"]

    Is it possible that is only one set of Others? They simply occupy the bodies, or image of the bodies, of those that they come across. it seems that Charles Widnmore, in 1954, was wearing the uniform of a U.S. Army soldier named “Jones”. .[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++
    Since we are ‘going there’, maybe when they take over a body, the face morphs as well so that they recognize each other. If we are going away from Alpert not aging…something has to explain why he always looks the same no matter what decade it is.[/quote]

    It could be explained as being the same reason why John Locke looks the same to Whidmore in 2007 as he did in 1954. The only difference is that RA must know where and when to be. Perhaps he is summoned in some way. Or… maybe he is not actually human.

    I really want to know what is the real purpose that RA is on the island. RA alluded to this purpose when hecommented about the fertility thing being a diversion from their real purpose

  486. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326859"][quote comment="326854"][quote comment="326709"]

    I really want to know what is the real purpose that RA is on the island. RA alluded to this purpose when hecommented about the fertility thing being a diversion from their real purpose[/quote]

    DUDE …WHEN DID RICHARD SAY THAT?

  487. Hammer says:

    Deep stuff there adapa1 and Steve….deep.

  488. Hammer says:

    From The Brig:

    RICHARD: Ben has been wasting our time with novelties like fertility problems. We’re looking for someone to remind us that we’re here for more important reasons.

    LOCKE: What do you want from me?

    RICHARD: I want for you to find your purpose. And to do that, your father has to go, John. And since you’re not gonna do it, I’m gonna suggest someone else.

    [He hands Locke a red folder. Locke looks at it briefly as Richard walks away]

  489. adapa1 says:

    I’m serious Hammer!!!!! I can’t help but picture you making some kind of face!!! ;-)

    Now steve’s got my back on this and he’s not even drinking yet so I’m hoping i’m not we’re not BOTH crazy and this might have some real merit

  490. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326864"]I’m serious Hammer!!!!! I can’t help but picture you making some kind of face!!! ;-)

    Now steve’s got my back on this and he’s not even drinking yet so I’m hoping i’m not we’re not BOTH crazy and this might have some real merit[/quote]
    ++++++++++++=
    LOL, hold on to your theory until the show proves it wrong.

    I did make a funny face…it looked like a constipated old man…:)

  491. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326860"][quote comment="326859"][quote comment="326854"][quote comment="326709"]

    I really want to know what is the real purpose that RA is on the island. RA alluded to this purpose when hecommented about the fertility thing being a diversion from their real purpose[/quote]

    DUDE …WHEN DID RICHARD SAY THAT?[/quote]
    _____

    He said to LOCKE…Ben has been wasting our time. We’re looking for someone to remind us that we’re here for more important reasons.

    That’s what I remember as far something on those lines:(

  492. Tasha says:

    Oops, sorry Hammer.

  493. Steve says:

    Thanks for answering that RA Locke conversation question. My wife had me run an errand. I guess I paraphrased the encounter.

  494. Hammer says:

    No matter Steve. I like to sometimes lilke to show the quotes for perspective…I think sometimes it changes your thought patterns or confirms them.

  495. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326862"]From The Brig:

    RICHARD: Ben has been wasting our time with novelties like fertility problems. We’re looking for someone to remind us that we’re here for more important reasons.

    LOCKE: What do you want from me?

    RICHARD: I want for you to find your purpose. And to do that, your father has to go, John. And since you’re not gonna do it, I’m gonna suggest someone else.

    [He hands Locke a red folder. Locke looks at it briefly as Richard walks away][/quote]

    [quote comment="326865"][quote comment="326864"]I’m serious Hammer!!!!! I can’t help but picture you making some kind of face!!! ;-)

    Now steve’s got my back on this and he’s not even drinking yet so I’m hoping i’m not we’re not BOTH crazy and this might have some real merit[/quote]
    ++++++++++++=
    LOL, hold on to your theory until the show proves it wrong.

    I did make a funny face…it looked like a constipated old man…:)[/quote]
    *****
    Oh I am…… I gonna have to pull a ‘runway’ on this one and hope I’m lucky and have the same outcome you had. This conversation fits right into to my theory. I’m definately placing all bets in my comment 475.

    I think the end game numbers/incident scenario causes the death of all the losties whos consciouness are all immediately sent back to the past which coarse corrects them all right back to flight 815 with recollection. Which means all they had to do was stay and the wouldn’t have ended up dying in the past. What we know of John and Charlottes past is certainly implies the possibilty of this.

    I think they should have kept pushing that button
    “Time travels a bitch” ;-)

  496. adapa1 says:

    I meant “no recollection in my last comment”

  497. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326846"][quote comment="326838"][quote comment="326831"][quote comment="326826"]It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    That made me think of how their policy is to kill each other when they get caught by an enemy. Maybe their ‘souls’ go back to the temple and wait for a new assignment?[/quote]
    ______________________
    I guess because Widmore killed that guy in 1954 that it is policy that they kill each other when they get caught. One incident doesn’t constitute policy IMO.

    Don’t even try to use the Ms. Klugh thing either. She practically begged for ole one eye to off her so I wouldn’t necessarily call that a policy. Ole one eye would have just offed her instead of her “begging” for it.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I am going to use Klugh:
    Translated from Russian)

    –Beatrice: “We can’t risk it, you know the rules.”

    –Mikhail: “There’s still a way out.”

    –Beatrice: “We won’t let them into the territory. You know what to do. It is an order.”

    –Beatrice: “(English) Just do it, Mikhail!”

    (Mikhail takes aim at Beatrice)

    –Mikhail: “(English) Forgive me”

    (Mikhail shoots Beatrice)

    and up you one…Patchy tried to kill himself by running thru the fence too.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Good ole patchy huh? I warned you not use that example, Hammer. :) Patchy has proven that he follows orders. He does not question what the leader asks of him. He just carried out what has to be done. Before you get all fired up, Hammer. Yes, I do remember him questioning Ben when he (patchy) was at the looking glass so don’t go there. He only questioned authority after he found the two babes down there and he realized that he had ben lied (see how I changed been to ben teah it was on purpose) pretty clever huh? Oh please Hammer agree with me so everyone will like my comment and respect my opinions. Ah nevermind you confirmation doesn’t matter to me. ROTFLMAO!!!!! Now back to my point, if killing an other when captured was a standing order patchy, of all people, doesn’t seem like the type to need convincing to carry out an order.

  498. Duke says:

    [quote comment="326846"][quote comment="326838"][quote comment="326831"][quote comment="326826"]It has been mentioned here that the Others seem to assimilate what is presented to them. Posession has also been mentioned by a few. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit far fetched but what if there is a finite number of Others. A group of consiencenesses. They assimilate into new bodies, such as Christian, Locke and Ben, to re-annimate them.
    This would explain why Mikhale keep on not dying untill he blew his body to bits rendering it usless. Christian and Locke came to the island as good, fresh, usefull bodies so they each got a Other inplant, so to speak.
    This could also explain how Juliette can speak Latin, shoot a gun and is so good at hand to hand combat. All unusual for a fertility Doctor. Each other keeps it’s current skills and gains the skills and personality of the current body they are living in.
    This would also explain why Richard says “He will always be one of us.”
    Again, it’s farfetched but could be fun to discuss and debate. More fun than bickering for sure.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    That made me think of how their policy is to kill each other when they get caught by an enemy. Maybe their ‘souls’ go back to the temple and wait for a new assignment?[/quote]
    ______________________
    I guess because Widmore killed that guy in 1954 that it is policy that they kill each other when they get caught. One incident doesn’t constitute policy IMO.

    Don’t even try to use the Ms. Klugh thing either. She practically begged for ole one eye to off her so I wouldn’t necessarily call that a policy. Ole one eye would have just offed her instead of her “begging” for it.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I am going to use Klugh:
    Translated from Russian)

    –Beatrice: “We can’t risk it, you know the rules.”

    –Mikhail: “There’s still a way out.”

    –Beatrice: “We won’t let them into the territory. You know what to do. It is an order.”

    –Beatrice: “(English) Just do it, Mikhail!”

    (Mikhail takes aim at Beatrice)

    –Mikhail: “(English) Forgive me”

    (Mikhail shoots Beatrice)

    and up you one…Patchy tried to kill himself by running thru the fence too.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    He did not run through the fence. Locke pushed him through it. Hammer is a mortal he got that wrong. LMAO

  499. Shadow says:

    Hi everyone,
    I feel like I’ve totally missed something. What is the “time loop” you guys keep talking about? Is the 108 minutes a time loop that keeps getting reset.
    Oh my Gosh! I need help. someone please explain this to me before I go nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  500. boo says:

    Danielle didn’t seem to remember Jin. Possible that she ended up in the Temple mind eraser? It still bugs me that she was able to live on the island so long without having trouble with the Others. She always seemed to know when to avoid trouble (enlightened?) until the rule breakers (Team Keamy) killed her and Alex.

    Of course Danelle does not remember Jin Because she meets Jin in 2004 Jin was time traveling when he met Danelle and her crew in the 1980’s when they first landed on the island

  501. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326898"]Hi everyone,
    I feel like I’ve totally missed something. What is the “time loop” you guys keep talking about? Is the 108 minutes a time loop that keeps getting reset.
    Oh my Gosh! I need help. someone please explain this to me before I go nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

    You are correct in that assumption sir

  502. Shadow says:

    Wow adapa1, thanks, that was really helpful. And its ma’am, not sir.

  503. Shadow says:

    What I mean adapa1 is that I need more of an explanation if you got the time. ’cause now I feel like I need to go back watch all the previous seasons.
    Do you mean that its an assumption that the 108 minutes is a time loop and not a fact that has been revealed on the show yet? Thanks :)

  504. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326907"]What I mean adapa1 is that I need more of an explanation if you got the time. ’cause now I feel like I need to go back watch all the previous seasons.
    Do you mean that its an assumption that the 108 minutes is a time loop and not a fact that has been revealed on the show yet? Thanks :)[/quote]

    Oh I’m sorry obout that. I had a total brain fart. I think is comes from the theory here http://timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.html

    The part about the loop is the only thing I feel sure about though in it
    ;-)

  505. adapa1 says:

    Hey Shadow…that 108 loop kinda stems from the dharma videos released in the game lost experience game that correltes with the show and the last one released at Comic Com. Both are here http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Videos

    ones called sri lanka

  506. Amber says:

    So I just want to touch on something that tasha said about why the others even wanted the purge to happen. I mean as of now it does seem like Richard is a good guy right? I mean he didnt go killing the time traveler in the 50’s, he worked out the paul situation with sawyer. He took in little shot ben. He seems like a reasonable guy. Even if he’s not the leader he has some leadership position. Why did they just decided to kill all of those people? maybe something to do with the incident? Maybe something that would exploit the island? maybe then needed some bodies to posess? any ideas guys

  507. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326914"]So I just want to touch on something that tasha said about why the others even wanted the purge to happen. I mean as of now it does seem like Richard is a good guy right? I mean he didnt go killing the time traveler in the 50’s, he worked out the paul situation with sawyer. He took in little shot ben. He seems like a reasonable guy. Even if he’s not the leader he has some leadership position. Why did they just decided to kill all of those people? maybe something to do with the incident? Maybe something that would exploit the island? maybe then needed some bodies to posess? any ideas guys[/quote]

    _____

    I don’t really know why I feel that way. It’s like a gut feeling that nobody talks about and I don’t know how to explain. Something fishy is going on though.(That’s obvious and been known since what? The first episode? LOL.) Ethan is part of Dharma but he was a hostile. Horace was building Jacob a cabin….how does he know who Jacob is and why was he building the cabin?(I know what he says so nobody has to pull up a transcript.) Just saying that if it wasn’t for his wife and him, he must be a hostile, unless Jacob has something to do with Dharma. Of course, Horace and Ethan can be explained if it’s the whole “taking over bodies thing.” Whoa! It’s just too late for me to be thinking about this right now. I really need to get a life. I’m gonna dream about Lost again tonight, I KNOW it!!

  508. Tasha says:

    I read what I wrote and worded it wrong. About the cabin….I just feel like it was meant for Jacob the whole time. OR it could just be for his wife and him and Ben used it to trap Jacob. I am sure all of this has been discussed but these episodes always make me question everything that has happened in the past. Hmmm, I mean the future. Plus I can’t remember all the comments from the past 5 seasons so please forgive me. I think it’s time for me to have another Lost marathon and see what I pick up this time around.

  509. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326926"][quote comment="326914"] I’m gonna dream about Lost again tonight, I KNOW it!![/quote]

    Me too ;-) goodnight.

  510. Circus Mom says:

    I came in with this idea prepared to be torn aprat. Now I need to think it thou==routh further.

  511. Steve says:

    108 minutes is the time between entry of the numbers in the swan station. it also the sum of the numbers 4,8,15,16,23,42.

  512. Steve says:

    [quote comment="326928"]I read what I wrote and worded it wrong. About the cabin….I just feel like it was meant for Jacob the whole time. OR it could just be for his wife and him and Ben used it to trap Jacob. I am sure all of this has been discussed but these episodes always make me question everything that has happened in the past. Hmmm, I mean the future. Plus I can’t remember all the comments from the past 5 seasons so please forgive me.

    I think it’s time for me to have another Lost marathon and see what I pick up this time around.[/quote]

    Its very late, and I finally had the beer that I wanted so badly earlier,a fat tire from New Belgium Brewery. (and several mixed drinks as well)I do not believe Ben trapped Jacob in the cabin. the cabin seems to manifest in different places as seen when Locke finds the ring of ash, but no cabin. Even Hurley said that the cabin was in a different direction then where Locke was going. I do not believe that Jacob is trapped in the cabin, because if he were trapped, why would Christian be in the cabin to speak for him. I think that it is entirely possible that Jacob takes the cabin, that is assuming that Horace, or the vision of Horace actually finishes building it.

    Remember, the time loop theory referenced by Adapa1. there may be a disconnect because if time truly looped, the relevant timeliness for each character would reset to what they were at the beginning of the loop. perhaps the time line was skewed in the past say eight months for example. the pushing of the button allowed the relevant time line to continue, eight months in the past, rather then catch up with “San Dimas time”. (Reference to Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure) In this way, the character’s personal time lines would seem linear from their personal points of view. This is why Ben and the Others living in Dharmaville don’t percieve a repeat of time, but are living a continuous linear lifestyle.

  513. Rumblestilskin says:

    Wow! very insightful Steve. lol
    LostJunkie wrote:

    Shot in the dark…what if Jack’s grandfather is Jacob?

    =====================================

    I was just watching S3-E3, The one where Locke is in the sweatlodge.

    Boone appears to Locke in the lodge, and says: “I’m here 2 help U find your way again, so U can bring the family back together”

    That made me think of your comment.

  514. Rumblestilskin says:

    It seems like the way 2 show your affection for someone on the island who it is inappropriate 2 have affection for is to bring them a sandwich.

    Juliette brings 1 2 Jack in S3-E5, when he’s locked in the cell. They were interupted by Ben, who wanted 2 tell Jack about his tumor.

    Goodwin (on S4-E6) brings 1 2 Juliette while her and Ben are looking in the microscope @ baby stuff.

    Of course, Little Ben brings 1 2 Siyeed when he’s locked up in Dahrmaville.

    So, my question would be: Yo, whassup wit dat?

  515. LostJunkie says:

    It’s just a gut feel I have about Jack’s grandfather. When we saw him at the old folks’ home, I’m pretty sure there was a mention of him (the grandfather) trying to leave or wanting to leave. I have the feeling he is trying to get back to the Island, but his mind is stuck, maybe it’s a consciousness-trapped sort of a thing, which has previously been discussed. If he is Jacob, think about it…you’d have Jacob, Jacob’s son (Christian Shephard), Jack (Christian’s son), and perhaps now Jack’s son (Kate is pregnant) on the Island. This would go with Comment 513 about Boone’s statement of bringing the family back together.

    Thoughts?

  516. Rita says:

    [quote comment="326907"]What I mean adapa1 is that I need more of an explanation if you got the time. ’cause now I feel like I need to go back watch all the previous seasons.
    Do you mean that its an assumption that the 108 minutes is a time loop and not a fact that has been revealed on the show yet? Thanks :)[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Shadow, the “time-loop theory” is just that at this point. It’s a theory and has some merit, but I am not convinced yet.

  517. Jay says:

    [quote comment="326859"][quote comment="326854"][quote comment="326709"]

    Is it possible that is only one set of Others? They simply occupy the bodies, or image of the bodies, of those that they come across. it seems that Charles Widnmore, in 1954, was wearing the uniform of a U.S. Army soldier named “Jones”. .[/quote]

    ++++++++++++++++
    Since we are ‘going there’, maybe when they take over a body, the face morphs as well so that they recognize each other. If we are going away from Alpert not aging…something has to explain why he always looks the same no matter what decade it is.[/quote]

    It could be explained as being the same reason why John Locke looks the same to Whidmore in 2007 as he did in 1954. The only difference is that RA must know where and when to be. Perhaps he is summoned in some way. Or… maybe he is not actually human.

    I really want to know what is the real purpose that RA is on the island. RA alluded to this purpose when hecommented about the fertility thing being a diversion from their real purpose[/quote]
    ***

    Only 1 reference in this thread to what may be Alpert’s real function: “high priest.” It was the first thing I thought of when RA brought little Ben into the temple.

  518. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="326948"]I came in with this idea prepared to be torn aprat. Now I need to think it thou==routh further.[/quote]
    ____

    I am forgetting comments ahain but after dreaming about LOST I want to add this to your theory. I am not sure if this has been brought up.

    Let me get this correct. From what we know so far, Ben killed off Dharma with the Purge. Many have said he let some Dharma live, BUT WHY? Ethan for example is Horace’s father. Ethan would not have been a baby when the Purge hit. So from what we know SO FAR, we don’t know if Ethan was shipped off as a child, i am going to assume he is still living in Dharmaville with his father. Why would he agree to live his life as a hostile after Ben kills his FATHER? Unless Horace was a mean old dad just like Roger. I doubt it though. Just because we know Charlotte left as a child doesn’t mean all women and children did like many of us are thinking.

    Again, I just woke up and just thinking about it. I just think ETHAN is either NOT the same as baby Ethan OR he must not be himself because why would you let someone kill your dad?(Unless his dad pushed him off the radio tower trying to kill him.} So I am thinking he was killed and they used his body:)

    JMO. I am probably way off but again…so many possibilities LOL.

  519. Tasha says:

    OR he was just shipped off and doesn’t realize he was at one time a DHarma baby. OR he does know he is a DHARMA baby but Ben manipulated him and he doesn’t kow Ben killed everyone.

  520. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326995"][quote comment="326948"]I came in with this idea prepared to be torn aprat. Now I need to think it thou==routh further.[/quote]
    ____

    I am forgetting comments ahain but after dreaming about LOST I want to add this to your theory. I am not sure if this has been brought up.

    Let me get this correct. From what we know so far, Ben killed off Dharma with the Purge. Many have said he let some Dharma live, BUT WHY? Ethan for example is Horace’s father. Ethan would not have been a baby when the Purge hit. So from what we know SO FAR, we don’t know if Ethan was shipped off as a child, i am going to assume he is still living in Dharmaville with his father. Why would he agree to live his life as a hostile after Ben kills his FATHER? Unless Horace was a mean old dad just like Roger. I doubt it though. Just because we know Charlotte left as a child doesn’t mean all women and children did like many of us are thinking.

    Again, I just woke up and just thinking about it. I just think ETHAN is either NOT the same as baby Ethan OR he must not be himself because why would you let someone kill your dad?(Unless his dad pushed him off the radio tower trying to kill him.} So I am thinking he was killed and they used his body:)

    JMO. I am probably way off but again…so many possibilities LOL.[/quote]
    +++++++
    Actually, part of my thiory was that the purge occured because the others suddenly needed a bunch of vessels to ocupy. Perhaps the incident did something to the others causing that need and it wasn’t quite so sudden.

  521. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="326991"][quote comment="326907"]What I mean adapa1 is that I need more of an explanation if you got the time. ’cause now I feel like I need to go back watch all the previous seasons.
    Do you mean that its an assumption that the 108 minutes is a time loop and not a fact that has been revealed on the show yet? Thanks :)[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Shadow, the “time-loop theory” is just that at this point. It’s a theory and has some merit, but I am not convinced yet.[/quote]
    ++++++
    Here is my attempted debunk to a time loop. When the rabbit was sent in time for a feew minutes there were two rabbits. If everyone on the island was continualy sent back 108 minutes in time it would be pretty crowded there right now. They would be running into themselves all over.

    Which brings me to a question. Desmond should have died when the hatch inploded. Why was Desmond running through the jungle naked afterward, with no memory of how he got there and the ability to see things that might happen.

  522. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327000"][quote comment="326991"][quote comment="326907"]What I mean adapa1 is that I need more of an explanation if you got the time. ’cause now I feel like I need to go back watch all the previous seasons.
    Do you mean that its an assumption that the 108 minutes is a time loop and not a fact that has been revealed on the show yet? Thanks :)[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Shadow, the “time-loop theory” is just that at this point. It’s a theory and has some merit, but I am not convinced yet.[/quote]
    ++++++
    Here is my attempted debunk to a time loop. When the rabbit was sent in time for a feew minutes there were two rabbits. If everyone on the island was continualy sent back 108 minutes in time it would be pretty crowded there right now. They would be running into themselves all over.

    Which brings me to a question. Desmond should have died when the hatch inploded. Why was Desmond running through the jungle naked afterward, with no memory of how he got there and the ability to see things that might happen.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Makes sense to me CM. I’m kind of liking the “invasion of the body snatchers” theory! Maybe Desmond is an Other now but doesn’t even realize it yet.

  523. Shadow says:

    adapa1, thanks so much for explaining and the links. I’m new to this blog and its so helpful. I love reading everyone’s theories and speculations.
    I was thinking about something this morning. Remember when Eloise told Jack,Desmond,Ben, and Sun that the island moves. I believe she said something like “Why do you think you were never rescued?” And remember when the chopper was trying to go back to the island and it disappeared right before their eyes? How the heck is it moving, and did it physically move, does it move through time? Did she say that the island is located over an area of electromagnetic energy and that there are other places like it in the world?
    Just thinking out loud, and you know when you start typing, sometimes you can’t get your thoughts across as well.
    Anyway, comments?

  524. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326995"]

    Again, I just woke up and just thinking about it. I just think ETHAN is either NOT the same as baby Ethan .[/quote]
    It was confirmed in a podcast that Ethan is the Ethan from Season 1.

  525. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="327000"]

    Which brings me to a question. Desmond should have died when the hatch inploded. Why was Desmond running through the jungle naked afterward, with no memory of how he got there and the ability to see things that might happen.[/quote]
    Wasn’t there a flash when he turned the key? Maybe he really did travel through time in the episode Flashes Before Your Eyes.

  526. Circus Mom says:

    OK, another question to fit into the theory. What determines who jumps in time. The others don’t and those on 316 that wern’t on 815 don’t and Sun and Frank don’t. Ben dosn’t.

    I’ll buy those on 316 don’t because they wern’t in the origional group that was supposed to jump. Perhaps Sun dosn’t because she was supposed to run away at 11:15 in the airport before flight 815. Ben is a other so that explains him. Perhaps Frank was always supposed to be booted from flight 815 and is not really part of that group.

    Locke died so he is stuck in time. Perhaps Charlotte jumped to the same time as Locke when she died. Basically, back to where they would (should?) have been.

    So why did Charlotte, Miles and Daniel jump?

  527. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="326965"] This would go with Comment 513 about Boone’s statement of bringing the family back together.
    [/quote]
    It could or it could have been a reference to Locke bringing his father to the island so Sawyer could kill him.

  528. Circus Mom says:

    If you die and are buried, you’re dead forever (I hope; I don’t want to see Nikki and Paulo again and Shannon was a real pain in the…neck.) In 1954, the Others buried the dead soldiers.

    If you die and are left on the ground the Island absorbs you if it wants you (Goodwin was not wanted) and you are reborn (at the Temple?). Karl and Rousseau — and maybe Alex — were “on their way.” Ben taking time to mourn his daughter was an act.

    What does this tell us about the “Viking” funeral of Colleen Picket?
    +++++++++
    The above was posted on another blog. ( I’ll let the poster identify themself if they want.)

    My answer to this was that Sun shot Colleen while they were out on a boat, then she was burried at sea.

    Keamy’s men took the time to bury Danielle, and Carl. I think they knew to do this because Widmore told them to. Ben also took time to bury Alex. Maiby he didn’t want her to become a true other?

    Charlie and Mikhale died off the island (sorry PJ) in the looking glass so they are in the same boat, so to speak, as colleen.

    OK, tought process here is incomplete. Have at it.

  529. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327019"]OK, another question to fit into the theory. What determines who jumps in time. The others don’t and those on 316 that wern’t on 815 don’t and Sun and Frank don’t. Ben dosn’t.

    I’ll buy those on 316 don’t because they wern’t in the origional group that was supposed to jump. Perhaps Sun dosn’t because she was supposed to run away at 11:15 in the airport before flight 815. Ben is a other so that explains him. Perhaps Frank was always supposed to be booted from flight 815 and is not really part of that group.

    Locke died so he is stuck in time. Perhaps Charlotte jumped to the same time as Locke when she died. Basically, back to where they would (should?) have been.

    So why did Charlotte, Miles and Daniel jump?[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Not sure if it matters or if it fits anything, but ALL of the 815ers (that we know of) have jumped. The “red shirts” were largely, if not completely, wiped out in 1954 by the flaming arrow brigade. Maybe the 316ers have just not jumped YET.

  530. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327033]

    Maybe he didn’t want her to become a true other?

    [/quote]
    __________________________________________
    In thinking more about this, I am wondering if Danielle DID somehow become an Other (via the brain-eraser) after having delivered Alex. Ben could have conceivably taken Alex to PROTECT her – with the idea that if she stayed with him, under his protection, she could escape the fate of becoming an Other, like himself (and her mother) – “losing her innocence” etc.

  531. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="327038"][quote comment="327019"]OK, another question to fit into the theory. What determines who jumps in time. The others don’t and those on 316 that wern’t on 815 don’t and Sun and Frank don’t. Ben dosn’t.

    I’ll buy those on 316 don’t because they wern’t in the origional group that was supposed to jump. Perhaps Sun dosn’t because she was supposed to run away at 11:15 in the airport before flight 815. Ben is a other so that explains him. Perhaps Frank was always supposed to be booted from flight 815 and is not really part of that group.

    Locke died so he is stuck in time. Perhaps Charlotte jumped to the same time as Locke when she died. Basically, back to where they would (should?) have been.

    So why did Charlotte, Miles and Daniel jump?[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Not sure if it matters or if it fits anything, but ALL of the 815ers (that we know of) have jumped. The “red shirts” were largely, if not completely, wiped out in 1954 by the flaming arrow brigade. Maybe the 316ers have just not jumped YET.[/quote]
    +++++Sun was a 815er and she didn’t jump. She is in the same time as the 316ers.

  532. Circus Mom says:

    If Sun wasn’t supposed to be on 815 and that is why she didn’t jump, then JiYeong was never supposed to have been conceived.

  533. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327040"][quote comment="327038"][quote comment="327019"]
    [/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Not sure if it matters or if it fits anything, but ALL of the 815ers (that we know of) have jumped. The “red shirts” were largely, if not completely, wiped out in 1954 by the flaming arrow brigade. Maybe the 316ers have just not jumped YET.[/quote]
    +++++Sun was a 815er and she didn’t jump. She is in the same time as the 316ers.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    True, at least not YET. She DOES have a long journey ahead of her! :)

  534. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="326959"][quote comment="326928"](Reference to Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure) [/quote]

    Steve you are fucking awesome!!! next flat tires on me (Sorry guys..I had too….but no more curse words today)

    Rumblestilskin: thanks for the sweat lodge dialogue.

    Lostjunkie: I love your theory just the same as in 481

    Tasha said: I just think ETHAN is either NOT the same as baby Ethan OR he must not be himself because why would you let someone kill your dad?(Unless his dad pushed him off the radio tower trying to kill him.} So I am thinking he was killed and they used his body:)
    *** I love it!!

    Circus Mom said: Which brings me to a question. Desmond should have died when the hatch inploded. Why was Desmond running through the jungle naked afterward, with no memory of how he got there and the ability to see things that might happen.

    OK, another question to fit into the theory. What determines who jumps in time. The others don’t and those on 316 that wern’t on 815 don’t and Sun and Frank don’t. Ben dosn’t.

    I’ll buy those on 316 don’t because they wern’t in the origional group that was supposed to jump. Perhaps Sun dosn’t because she was supposed to run away at 11:15 in the airport before flight 815. Ben is a other so that explains him. Perhaps Frank was always supposed to be booted from flight 815 and is not really part of that group.

    Locke died so he is stuck in time. Perhaps Charlotte jumped to the same time as Locke when she died. Basically, back to where they would (should?) have been.

    So why did Charlotte, Miles and Daniel jump?
    *********
    ok CM Do you think conscious tt/possesion theory before me becuase I’m gonna claiming it as my own( I just want my stripe on here ;-)) Besides it’s way too cool for me to hog when I’ve checked EVERYWHERE and have not seen this theory yet. When we are proven right we can gloat amongst the four? of us lol.

    The rabbit TT was the physical version.

    I been thinking of desmond after the swam exploded and I wanted to think that was end game and when I couldn’t..I drew a blank til right now…. so off the top of my head…..
    he did go back i time. Yet ironical right before when he actually landed on the island. He was there for 3 years right? But in a loop, so when he turns the key and stops it, his life flashes before his eyes(didn’t he say something like that to Charlie) as his conscious comes back to real time. Which sounds ok to me….but I still remeber the chills eloise gave me when she wouldn’t give him the ring. WFT!!!! is it possible Eloise went back in time specifically for that reason. To get him. Kinda creates value for my Desmond my theory at the end on 382.

  535. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327019"]OK, another question to fit into the theory. What determines who jumps in time. The others don’t and those on 316 that wern’t on 815 don’t and Sun and Frank don’t. Ben dosn’t.

    I’ll buy those on 316 don’t because they wern’t in the origional group that was supposed to jump. Perhaps Sun dosn’t because she was supposed to run away at 11:15 in the airport before flight 815. Ben is a other so that explains him. Perhaps Frank was always supposed to be booted from flight 815 and is not really part of that group.

    Locke died so he is stuck in time. Perhaps Charlotte jumped to the same time as Locke when she died. Basically, back to where they would (should?) have been.

    So why did Charlotte, Miles and Daniel jump?[/quote]

    I’m the opinion now that 815 was the course correction for everyone dying in the endgame. so i think if you’re on 316

    -you are already on the big island and wejust can’t have to Versions of the same person in the 70’S

    -you simply where not involved in the incident endgame/incident(?)

    keep in mind..I’m crazy, and am holding on to my theory in comment 475 until it’s debunked. So I think John/jacob IS already on the big island. LOL!! You guys know you wanna slap me!!

  536. wingman says:

    LMAO @ last week’s blog…ALL that fussing and fighting was hilarious..Just thought I had to mention it^^…

    As for this episode, what an episode…

    So Ben = Smoke Monster eh?

    I don’t even think I have what it takes to wrap my brain around that right now…

    I thought the best part about this episode was when Hurley pwnd Miles by bringing up the fact that Ben couldn’t remember Sayid…I felt that entire scene was the creators talking exactly to this blog and others like us telling us that “Whatever happened, happened” isn’t “whatever happened happened”, then they use and abuse us again by having Richard Alpert say that Ben would forget his old life, so “Whatever happened” indeed happened?..Jesus, I was so glad when Miles broke it down to everyone earlier in the show, I thought my feelings had been vindicated, and we could finally put the silly photoshop, alternate timeline theories to bed, but D&C do just enuff to make it hard for you to sleep at night..Brilliant S.O.B.’s Not a huge fan of Kate-centric eps so there were parts of this ep that seemed rather much for me, but the subplots in this episode were brilliant…I loved all the actual time travel conversations, they had me on the edge of my seat…I also loved the scene where Jack set Kate straight on when he had to save Ben the first time…Looks like Kate x Jack is finished for good now…As for Ben, good God, is he like Danielle’s crew, is he an extension of the smoke monster himself, is he THE ISLAND????

    Widmore: “I know WHAT you are, boy…”

    Next episode with Ben and Locke should be awesome…

    Unfortunately not many easter eggs in this one besides the temple, but it was a helleva egg right before EASTER…

  537. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326897"]
    ____________________________
    He did not run through the fence. Locke pushed him through it. [/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Good point, I remembered that wrong…although he did try to shoot himself, begged the losties to kill him and thanked John for pushing him….following policy.

  538. Rita says:

    Thinking more about Roger + Kate: Kate on the rebound from Sawyer AND Jack, might give poor Roger some hope. So what we see later, when he is still a jerk to Ben, might be because he is not trying to get over KATE. It’s a thought. :)

  539. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="326965"]It’s just a gut feel I have about Jack’s grandfather. When we saw him at the old folks’ home, I’m pretty sure there was a mention of him (the grandfather) trying to leave or wanting to leave. I have the feeling he is trying to get back to the Island, but his mind is stuck, maybe it’s a consciousness-trapped sort of a thing, which has previously been discussed. If he is Jacob, think about it…you’d have Jacob, Jacob’s son (Christian Shephard), Jack (Christian’s son), and perhaps now Jack’s son (Kate is pregnant) on the Island. This would go with Comment 513 about Boone’s statement of bringing the family back together.

    Thoughts?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Yep what he said:

    JACK: [Smiling] You packed a bag?

    RAY: Of course I did. One of these times, I’m actually gonna get away. They won’t ever find me either.


    I commented back on the 316 post that I thought he meant that he was trying to get back to the island. But you bring up an interesting point about getting the family back together. Do you mean the Sheppard family?

  540. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327051"]Thinking more about Roger + Kate: Kate on the rebound from Sawyer AND Jack, might give poor Roger some hope. So what we see later, when he is still a jerk to Ben, might be because he is not trying to get over KATE. It’s a thought. :)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Eww…but interesting.

    I took it that they MIGHT be trying to show us that Roger’s attitude towards Ben changed when he thought Ben might die. That Ben will have to lose his innocence ‘now'(now that Sayid shot him and he can’t die because he isn’t supposed to die) as opposed to as an adult(when I assumed he became an official Other).

    More course correction.

  541. intolost says:

    Nooo!!! I missed the episode and can’t get the ep to play online for me to catch up! Somebody, please post a super quick synopse of what happened! I’ve never missed an episode! Whatever happened happened???? PLEASE! I can’t stand it! I’m about to get a new computer, but in a couple of weeks. I can catch up then. In the meantime, I will try not to miss another Wednesday night. Sorry, would love to sit and read all the posts but can’t. Sigh….. I glanced and take it Ben does not die. Of course.

  542. DocH says:

    Who has never done anything right? (re: destiny/fate/karma).

    Talking about the main characters. Most have, but I think there are only two left, before this episode. That would be Kate and Jack. I think Jack finally had his “My name is Earl” moment when he refused to treat young Ben. Kate is the only one that has not “won the karma lottery and then struck by a car a minute later.” She is definitely on the path to ‘making good’, but giving-up kid-Ben was the dumbest thing, compared to her smartest moment, giving-up kid-Aaron.
    (Hi. My name is Kate. Kate J. Hickey.)

  543. intolost says:

    Doc, you’re on right now? Can you please post me a quick synopse of the ep? I missed it. Thanks.

  544. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327055"]Nooo!!! I missed the episode and can’t get the ep to play online for me to catch up! Somebody, please post a super quick synopse of what happened! I’ve never missed an episode! Whatever happened happened???? PLEASE! I can’t stand it! I’m about to get a new computer, but in a couple of weeks. I can catch up then. In the meantime, I will try not to miss another Wednesday night. Sorry, would love to sit and read all the posts but can’t. Sigh….. I glanced and take it Ben does not die. Of course.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++=
    Go to lostpedia.com enter ‘episode’ into the search…scroll down the WHH…click on it and you will get a synopsis.

  545. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="327057"]Doc, you’re on right now? Can you please post me a quick synopse of the ep? I missed it. Thanks.[/quote]

    Try this:

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Whatever_Happened%2C_Happened

    : ) P

  546. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="327052"][quote comment="326965"]It’s just a gut feel I have about Jack’s grandfather. When we saw him at the old folks’ home, I’m pretty sure there was a mention of him (the grandfather) trying to leave or wanting to leave. I have the feeling he is trying to get back to the Island, but his mind is stuck, maybe it’s a consciousness-trapped sort of a thing, which has previously been discussed. If he is Jacob, think about it…you’d have Jacob, Jacob’s son (Christian Shephard), Jack (Christian’s son), and perhaps now Jack’s son (Kate is pregnant) on the Island. This would go with Comment 513 about Boone’s statement of bringing the family back together.

    Thoughts?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Yep what he said:

    JACK: [Smiling] You packed a bag?

    RAY: Of course I did. One of these times, I’m actually gonna get away. They won’t ever find me either.


    I commented back on the 316 post that I thought he meant that he was trying to get back to the island. But you bring up an interesting point about getting the family back together. Do you mean the Sheppard family?[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I think Ray had one job to do: Provide Christian’s shoes to Jack so he could give them to Locke.

    “…struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more.”? Or something like that!

    8) Jim

  547. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327060"][quote comment="327052"][quote comment="326965"]It’s just a gut feel I have about Jack’s grandfather. When we saw him at the old folks’ home, I’m pretty sure there was a mention of him (the grandfather) trying to leave or wanting to leave. I have the feeling he is trying to get back to the Island, but his mind is stuck, maybe it’s a consciousness-trapped sort of a thing, which has previously been discussed. If he is Jacob, think about it…you’d have Jacob, Jacob’s son (Christian Shephard), Jack (Christian’s son), and perhaps now Jack’s son (Kate is pregnant) on the Island. This would go with Comment 513 about Boone’s statement of bringing the family back together.

    Thoughts?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Yep what he said:

    JACK: [Smiling] You packed a bag?

    RAY: Of course I did. One of these times, I’m actually gonna get away. They won’t ever find me either.


    I commented back on the 316 post that I thought he meant that he was trying to get back to the island. But you bring up an interesting point about getting the family back together. Do you mean the Sheppard family?[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I think Ray had one job to do: Provide Christian’s shoes to Jack so he could give them to Locke.

    “…struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more.”? Or something like that!

    8) Jim[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    You are likely correct Jim. I just wonder why the writers didn’t just have him swing by mom’s house to pick up dad’s shoes…why go through all the mumbo jumbo with grandpa just to get a pair of shoes that shouldn’t have been at the old folks home in the first place.

  548. Steve says:

    [quote comment="327062"][quote comment="327060"][quote comment="327052"][quote comment="326965"]It’s just a gut feel I have about Jack’s grandfather. When we saw him at the old folks’ home, I’m pretty sure there was a mention of him (the grandfather) trying to leave or wanting to leave. I have the feeling he is trying to get back to the Island, but his mind is stuck, maybe it’s a consciousness-trapped sort of a thing, which has previously been discussed. If he is Jacob, think about it…you’d have Jacob, Jacob’s son (Christian Shephard), Jack (Christian’s son), and perhaps now Jack’s son (Kate is pregnant) on the Island. This would go with Comment 513 about Boone’s statement of bringing the family back together.

    Thoughts?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Yep what he said:

    JACK: [Smiling] You packed a bag?

    RAY: Of course I did. One of these times, I’m actually gonna get away. They won’t ever find me either.


    I commented back on the 316 post that I thought he meant that he was trying to get back to the island. But you bring up an interesting point about getting the family back together. Do you mean the Sheppard family?[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I think Ray had one job to do: Provide Christian’s shoes to Jack so he could give them to Locke.

    “…struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more.”? Or something like that!

    8) Jim[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    You are likely correct Jim. I just wonder why the writers didn’t just have him swing by mom’s house to pick up dad’s shoes…why go through all the mumbo jumbo with grandpa just to get a pair of shoes that shouldn’t have been at the old folks home in the first place.[/quote]

    Don’t forget Aaron who is the other grandson of Christian

  549. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327062"][quote comment="327060"][quote comment="327052"][quote comment="326965"]
    Thoughts?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Yep what he said:

    JACK: [Smiling] You packed a bag?

    RAY: Of course I did. One of these times, I’m actually gonna get away. They won’t ever find me either.


    I commented back on the 316 post that I thought he meant that he was trying to get back to the island. But you bring up an interesting point about getting the family back together. Do you mean the Sheppard family?[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I think Ray had one job to do: Provide Christian’s shoes to Jack so he could give them to Locke.

    “…struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more.”? Or something like that!

    8) Jim[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    You are likely correct Jim. I just wonder why the writers didn’t just have him swing by mom’s house to pick up dad’s shoes…why go through all the mumbo jumbo with grandpa just to get a pair of shoes that shouldn’t have been at the old folks home in the first place.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    If Jack had gone to the house, he might have grabbed something else, not shoes. He was told to bring something that had belonged to Christian. The fact that G-pa had the SHOES was significant because Jack had given his dad old beat up white shoes for the coffin – it was important that he make amends with SHOES. They most likely played it this way to make sure he took the SHOES.

  550. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327063"]Don’t forget Aaron who is the other grandson of Christian[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Good point…I did sort of forget. Seems like one hell of a catch on the Boone comment.

  551. intolost says:

    Phew! Thanks, Hammer! Thanks, PJ! That will hold me for now.

  552. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="327066"]Phew! Thanks, Hammer! Thanks, PJ! That will hold me for now.[/quote]

    ____

    Dont know why it wont play for you online but you can probably watch it on youtube if you havent tried that.

  553. LostJunkie says:

    I just find it curious that Ray specifically says “one of these times I’m actually gonna get away…THEY WON’T EVER FIND ME EITHER.” Why throw that line in there if his role on the show is simply to give Jack the shoes? I suppose it’s possible that they are trying to throw the smart audience off that might pick up on that, like a smokescreen, if he really doesn’t have an important role besides giving Jack the shoes. But I think he has significance, and I’m sticking to that theory!

  554. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327068"]I just find it curious that Ray specifically says “one of these times I’m actually gonna get away…THEY WON’T EVER FIND ME EITHER.” Why throw that line in there if his role on the show is simply to give Jack the shoes? I suppose it’s possible that they are trying to throw the smart audience off that might pick up on that, like a smokescreen, if he really doesn’t have an important role besides giving Jack the shoes. But I think he has significance, and I’m sticking to that theory![/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Agreed!

  555. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="327063"]

    Don’t forget Aaron who is the other grandson of Christian[/quote]
    Christian has more than one grandson?

  556. slugdoc says:

    OK. Lots of things. (Lots is an anagram of LOST. OMG!)

    1) What’s all this crap about needing constants to stop nosebleeds? How come in all this time no one suggested manual pressure to the bridge of the nose, pinching the nostrils together, leaning forward, maybe some ice?? Basic first aid anyone?

    2) Vampires — Perfect! Except that it would be just too stupid, and we’d all feel like we wasted 6 years on this show if it turns out to be vampires. That and the sunlight thing. But it does explain the no birthdays thing, not aging, looking pale and creepy, “one of us”.

    3) I have never really trusted Juliet. She is always one of them. I think we will eventually see Juliet betray them all, and she will just shrug, and give that crooked smile and say, “You knew I was an Other.”

    4) There does seem to be a suicide/homicide thing about the Others if they are getting compromised.

    5) The true purpose of the Others — great point. First Dharma is doing all this science stuff, and living nice hippy lives. Dharma had a purpose – a mission statement that they would put on the dharmawantsyou.com website, if the internet had been invented — and what they were doing was more or less consistent with it.
    But what were the Others about? After they took over Dharmaville, they started acting like Dharma, doing science (Mittlos Bioscience) and having book clubs — but that’s not what being an Other was about, was it?

    6) None of the Time Travelers have yet tried to like bet on the outcome of sports games?? (Maybe that explains the whole Pete Rose thing, he was influenced by time travelers.)

    7) there was more, but I didn’t take notes.

  557. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327057"]Doc, you’re on right now? Can you please post me a quick synopse of the ep? I missed it. Thanks.[/quote]
    To hell with a synops!!!! Even if I hated the episode that would be unacceptable.

    Dude. go to isohunt.com and download the torrent..it will take you ten minutes. I’m assuming you have bit torrent…

    it’s not stealing…it’s medicine

    LostJunkie wrote:
    I just find it curious that Ray specifically says “one of these times I’m actually gonna get away…THEY WON’T EVER FIND ME EITHER.” Why throw that line in there if his role on the show is simply to give Jack the shoes? I suppose it’s possible that they are trying to throw the smart audience off that might pick up on that, like a smokescreen, if he really doesn’t have an important role besides giving Jack the shoes. But I think he has significance, and I’m sticking to that theory!
    ***
    Ok I think I misunderstood you. Am I correct in that you think Jacks grandad is jacob?

  558. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327071"][quote comment="327068"]I just find it curious that Ray specifically says “one of these times I’m actually gonna get away…THEY WON’T EVER FIND ME EITHER.” Why throw that line in there if his role on the show is simply to give Jack the shoes? I suppose it’s possible that they are trying to throw the smart audience off that might pick up on that, like a smokescreen, if he really doesn’t have an important role besides giving Jack the shoes. But I think he has significance, and I’m sticking to that theory![/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Agreed![/quote]

    I’m so happy you all thought the EXACT same thing I did when we met jacks grandad..that he had ben to the island and was trying to get back. I remember hating that tease. No way they’d make it that easy for us.

    Hey guys….. am I wrong to have expected an ‘official’ explantion for the traveling gunshot wound from DC by now? I thought I was just being a jerk, but it seems everyone on the planet noticed that. I just want some one to tell me whoevers job it is to make sure wounds like that don’t relocate while shooting was fired. Better Yet tortured, or actually shot in the correct spot and made to watch that episode while said person bleeds to death lol!!

  559. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327006"]adapa1, thanks so much for explaining and the links. I’m new to this blog and its so helpful. I love reading everyone’s theories and speculations.
    I was thinking about something this morning. Remember when Eloise told Jack,Desmond,Ben, and Sun that the island moves. I believe she said something like “Why do you think you were never rescued?” And remember when the chopper was trying to go back to the island and it disappeared right before their eyes? How the heck is it moving, and did it physically move, does it move through time? Did she say that the island is located over an area of electromagnetic energy and that there are other places like it in the world?
    Just thinking out loud, and you know when you start typing, sometimes you can’t get your thoughts across as well.
    Anyway, comments?[/quote]

    My pleasure my dear. It’s just the golden rule… I still remeber how blown away i was when I first read the thoeries section here. Did you get a chance to see the extra dharma videoes i mentioned? About the island always moving..I still have no reason to trust anything Eloise says until we have more information.LOL safe to say I can’t trust anyone until Ben is dead and in that dharma grave with his pops ;-) Though I could count on Sayid but he only shoots one bullet at a time. Where’s Echo when you need him?

  560. Herkey says:

    [quote comment="326897"][quote comment="326846"][quote comment="326838"][quote comment="326831"][quote comment="326826"]

    Re: Circus Mom & reassimilation. Is this the reason they took the kids for the tail section. To use their bodies for a LOST sprit?

  561. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="327068"]I just find it curious that Ray specifically says “one of these times I’m actually gonna get away…THEY WON’T EVER FIND ME EITHER.” Why throw that line in there if his role on the show is simply to give Jack the shoes? I suppose it’s possible that they are trying to throw the smart audience off that might pick up on that, like a smokescreen, if he really doesn’t have an important role besides giving Jack the shoes. But I think he has significance, and I’m sticking to that theory![/quote]
    That’s good reasoning. I am curious if you assume that Christian was also on the island before his coffin landed there in 2004?

  562. Steve says:

    [quote comment="327103"][quote comment="327063"]

    Don’t forget Aaron who is the other grandson of Christian[/quote]
    Christian has more than one grandson?[/quote]

    There was the postulation that Kate is pregnant with Jack Child and was on the Ajira flight as Claire’s stand in. Then again I guess to get the whole family together grandpa would need to be there too. Or perhaps is already is, was, will… Oh Not Again!!

  563. Sean says:

    Been lurking for a while does anyone think perhaps future (Sun and Frank)losties could be preparing the future for when the current losties catch up in time(similar to the prepared future for the))losties whe know_have already been TT but are unaware untile they are clued in

  564. Sean says:

    [quote comment="327138"]Been lurking for a while does anyone think perhaps future (Sun and Frank)losties could be preparing the future for when the current losties catch up in time(similar to the prepared future for the))losties we know_have already been TT but are unaware until they are clued in[/quote]
    IE Hammer’s Runway

  565. Sean says:

    [quote comment="327140"][quote comment="327138"]Been lurking for a while does anyone think perhaps future (Sun and Frank)losties could be preparing the future for when the current losties catch up in time(similar to the prepared future for the))losties we know_have already been TT but are unaware until they are clued in[/quote]
    IE Hammer’s Runway[/quote]

    WHICH I BELEIVED IN FROM THEN FIRST MENTION OF IT!!! AN IF IT H THEN IT ALWAYWA H !!! OR ? MAYBE?

  566. LostJunkie says:

    I’m with Slugdoc (comment 556) about Juliet. Don’t trust her. Never have. Her demeanor is basically the same as Ben’s. Basically the same as any of the Others, actually. They don’t emote happiness…when has Juliet just out-and-out laughed, been full of joy, anything like that? She’s always measured, un-emotional.

  567. Sean says:

    I Agree!!!

  568. Sean says:

    She has never shown any true emotion to anyone!
    Yaeh! She has Been the epitome of that!!
    And we can’t expect any more than than that!!

  569. Sean says:

    Yeah, Juliet is mosr definit;u one of the most unfriendly (unsociable) of the others but perhaps one of the most intelligent of the others also?

  570. Sean says:

    Sorry about the caps.
    and sorry about my typing, I’m jusr learning, slowly.

  571. Sean says:

    apperntly I’m the one that stay’s up the lates here? I was hoping for some answerss!!

  572. Sean says:

    Jusr looking foe somw answersssssssssss;:

  573. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327154"]Just looking foe somw answersssssssssss;:[/quote]
    dude….it seems I’m always the last one standing!! Even on a blog!!!

    People think I’m cool; yet any time, away from my so-called peers, I put on my Geek Raider outfit, immediately let my guard down, get naked ,and sit in front of my computer(not really but ‘naked in front of the computer’ is a faith no more song). At that point…I log on to this site and pray that one of you bloggers haven’t already debunked the only theory I have. My life has become this blog and the actual show. Seriously people …I’ve done maybe two hours of work at my job since wed. night….because ALL I do is read everyone comments while sipping the Coolant from my truck to keep my brain from overheating. I think my ego has officially taken over and the truth is…….
    My dream would have been me saying ‘I told you so’,and then watching everyone claim they had the same idea. But I didn’t dream that at all!!! I was on the island again with an eye patch for one eye….and radioactive REM for the other. And whenever I found myself dreaming on dangerous ground I refer to my three constants.

    -creating and posting a flawless and irrefutable theory right before lost comes on ..and Wait for some sucker to put the money where his/her mouth is only so I can take it back out an hour later, buy ME some beer with it, and publicly promote myself to the rank of MacGyver.

    -wondering how Ben will die and smiling about it

    -trying to forget I ever saw the traveling gunshot wound while trying not to swear in this blog.

    Dude….all Macgyver needs is some duct tape….and some dharma beer to figure out this one. LOL!!!!!!!!!

    YES!! F*&*&&* great idea!! I am now know only as Macgyver on here until Completely debunked and dropped all the way back the the ‘newbie’ level consisting of only the audacity and the severe retardation of everyone asking me who Macgyver was, how he always manages to get away, and why he can’t die.
    Which is my cue to imitate the profound, state the answer, and spin of in a mysterious manner.

    “My name is Macguyver. I have come 108 days from the future to stop your death. you MUST watch LOST all the way from the begining so your head doesn’t explode from the flashes lol!!!”

    Young jedi, you can’t just can’t fit a floppy disk anywhere in 2009 . But If you put on this jump suit, I can promise you some dharma beer and an Apple IIE that does absolutely nothing but beep.

  574. MacGyver says:

    I never liked/trusted Juliete either. Now I just wanna see het kick kates ass.

  575. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327144"][quote comment="327140"][quote comment="327138"]Been lurking for a while does anyone think perhaps future (Sun and Frank)losties could be preparing the future for when the current losties catch up in time(similar to the prepared future for the))losties we know_have already been TT but are unaware until they are clued in[/quote]
    IE Hammer’s Runway[/quote]

    WHICH I BELEIVED IN FROM THEN FIRST MENTION OF IT!!! AN IF IT H THEN IT ALWAYWA H !!! OR ? MAYBE?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Quite possible. Hold on to that one!

  576. MacGruber says:

    [quote comment="327163"][quote comment="327154"]Just looking foe somw answersssssssssss;:[/quote]
    dude….it seems I’m always the last one standing!!

    Even on a blog!!!

    People think I’m cool; yet any time, away from my so-called peers, I put on my Geek Raider outfit, immediately let my guard down, get naked ,and sit in front of my computer(not really but ‘naked in front of the computer’ is a faith no more song). At that point…I log on to this site and pray that one of you bloggers haven’t already debunked the only theory I have.

    My life has become this blog and the actual show. Seriously people …I’ve done maybe two hours of work at my job since wed. night….because ALL I do is read everyone comments while sipping the Coolant from my truck to keep my brain from overheating. I think my ego has officially taken over and the truth is…….
    My dream would have been me saying ‘I told you so’,and then watching everyone claim they had the same idea. But I didn’t dream that at all!!!

    I was on the island again with an eye patch for one eye….and radioactive REM for the other. And whenever I found myself dreaming on dangerous ground I refer to my three constants.

    -creating and posting a flawless and irrefutable theory right before lost comes on ..and Wait for some sucker to put the money where his/her mouth is only so I can take it back out an hour later, buy ME some beer with it, and publicly promote myself to the rank of MacGyver.

    -wondering how Ben will die and smiling about it

    -trying to forget I ever saw the traveling gunshot wound while trying not to swear in this blog.

    Dude….all Macgyver needs is some duct tape….and some dharma beer to figure out this one. LOL!!!!!!!!!

    YES!! F*&*&&* great idea!!

    I am now know only as Macgyver on here until Completely debunked and dropped all the way back the the ‘newbie’ level consisting of only the audacity and the severe retardation of everyone asking me who Macgyver was, how he always manages to get away, and why he can’t die.
    Which is my cue to imitate the profound, state the answer, and spin of in a mysterious manner.

    “My name is Macguyver. I have come 108 days from the future to stop your death. you MUST watch LOST all the way from the begining so your head doesn’t explode from the flashes lol!!!”

    Young jedi, you can’t just can’t fit a floppy disk anywhere in 2009 . But If you put on this jump suit, I can promise you some dharma beer and an Apple IIE that does absolutely nothing but beep.[/quote]
    *****************************************
    Dude, you need help. JUST SAY NO!

  577. Halliwax says:

    I have an odd feeling we’re going to get an episode specifically about the Black Rock pretty soon.. probably Alpert’s backstory

  578. LizS says:

    Oh, crumbs! I took soooo many notes, on the back of an envelope, on all the posts I wanted to comment on, and natch, I can NOT find it. Days, it took me days to catch up, and then…

    Hopefully the thing will time-loop back to me.

    ANYWAY, love, love, love the zombie possession theory! That is just so cool. Richard as the High Priest of Baron Jacob–or some such thing, where the Cylons have gone, Resurrection in the Temple of Doom. The same Others, cycling through time after time, kidnapping kids to possess–freakish and Bizzah!

    ….sips coffee, already had too much caffeine…

    What I thought when I watched this ep–and I, too, thought it was very touching when Kate said good-bye to Aaron, and yet wanted to smack her for leaving the kid alone in a hotel room—was it was probably the first time a question had been raised and answered in a single episode. Hurley to Miles:

    HURLEY: But when we first captured Ben, Sayid like tortured him then why wouldn’t he remember getting shot by that same guy when he was a kid?

    MILES: Huh. I hadn’t thought of that.

    Then the answer:
    RICHARD: If I take him, he’s not ever gonna be the same again.

    KATE: What do you mean by that?

    RICHARD: What I mean is that he’ll forget this ever happened and that his innocence will be gone. He will always be one of us.

    ——–
    So, I agree with those who were slightly disappointed that this happened this way. To me, this was kinda clumsy and un-Lost-like. First, explaining the TT–which was kinda funny/and a shout out to We Who Debate this stuff, and a very Science-esque kind of explanation for events–which was great, really. Then we go to the Mystical Temple Explanation for Ben’s Giant Continuity Error–why he doesn’t remember how he got shot.

    OK, whatever. (And I, too was creeped out by the ‘his innocence will be gone’ bit.)

    But this does mean Richard knows Sawyer and Kate, and he ain’t going to forget them.

    Are we going to see what happens to Ben in the Temple? What his initiation rites are going to be? The sacrifice he must make to belong? I guess this might trump the killing your dad rite–

    And Ben didn’t kill everyone in Dharmaville, just his Dad. The other Others completed the Purge. Maybe a technicality, because we don’t know if it was his idea or not (he says not, but Ben is a, what’s that, a liar?), or if it was ordered by Someone Else, or if it was his plan on the how…

    Ben, Ben, Ben–so, Sayid shot him, Jack refused to treat him, and Kate & Sawyer handed him over to the Others, under Juliet’s nudging. Hmm. A mighty ironic turn of events. WHH, indeed. So they all had a hand in creating the Ben who torments them in the future/past. Which is what must have always happened, so were they not then MEANT to leave the island, and come back, and be vaulted back to ’77, and do what they did?

    And how else WOULD they have traveled back in time without the FDW spin? If they were in fact meant to be in the past to create the Ben?

    And does this ‘forgetting’ that Ben will undergo mean that our peops will be gone from 77 by the time Ben recovers–if he’s going to recover amongst the Dharma? Because lil Ben would certainly remember them if they stayed around for the next fifteen years, wouldn’t he?

    Best, Liz

  579. LizS says:

    re: the 108 minute time loop thing–

    Some postulated that the 108 minutes/push the button were a means of keeping the island ‘stuck’ in a loop that prevented forward progress to the end of the world–that we maybe think the whole show might be about. Not that the same 108 minutes were happening over and over. And somehow, whatever caused the 108 m/push sequence had also lead to infertility in the island women.

    or radiation from a leaky H-bomb causing mutations

  580. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327169"][quote comment="327163"][quote comment="327154"]
    *****************************************
    Dude, you need help. JUST SAY NO![/quote]

    Macgruber!!!!!I new some one still watches SNL

    Halliwax wrote:
    I have an odd feeling we’re going to get an episode specifically about the Black Rock pretty soon.. probably Alpert’s backstory

    I sure hope so!!! we MUST know who the captain is.

  581. adapa1 says:

    ANYWAY, love, love, love the zombie possession theory! That is just so cool. Richard as the High Priest of Baron Jacob–or some such thing, where the Cylons have gone, Resurrection in the Temple of Doom. The same Others, cycling through time after time, kidnapping kids to possess–freakish and Bizzah!

    ….sips coffee, already had too much caffeine…
    ***
    That was pretty funny

    Lizs wrote:
    And Ben didn’t kill everyone in Dharmaville, just his Dad. The other Others completed the Purge. Maybe a technicality, because we don’t know if it was his idea or not (he says not, but Ben is a, what’s that, a liar?), or if it was ordered by Someone Else, or if it was his plan on the how…

    You know I just watched ‘the man behind the curtain’ again… I take that back I went to the synopsis on lostpedia. WHY does ben look the same age he does in the prent when he’s in the van with his dad and opens the canister. Somethings wierd here. How old is he in 77? lets say at the oldest 16…so in 87 he’s 26. I think the purge is 1992. I’m saying he looks a hell of a lot older that . maybe not bens body???

  582. adapa1 says:

    Sorry Lizs, I tried to qoute you. Hey did you read this guys 108 loop theory timelooptheory.com/the_timelin…

    Out of his whole theory the section explaining the loop is IMO brillant

  583. LizS says:

    [quote comment="327213"]Sorry Lizs, I tried to qoute you. Hey did you read this guys 108 loop theory timelooptheory.com/the_timelin…

    Out of his whole theory the section explaining the loop is IMO brillant[/quote]
    ————
    Hi, adapa1, I just TRIED to, but there were too many iterations, and I did not get it. My brain started to fry, sorry, LOL!

    It’s interesting to think of the Island as a giant time traveling machine–but I don’t wholly buy into that. But it’s cool to think about.

    This episode was like, mystical science fiction for me. And who was saying about how certain characters had big character changing arcs? Sorry, my notes are still MIA–so Sayid & Jack, and Locke, too, have had these altering experiences where they’ve lost the things they held on to so dearly as people, and let go of who they were to BECOME…whatever it is they will ultimately be. But Kate’s arc isn’t like that, exactly–

    Well, maybe not as dramatically, but she had to/has to let go of the idea of Aaron as her emotional crutch and ‘do the right thing’ (find Claire)–as Roger said in this ep, a boy needs his mom. So Kate grew as a mom-figure, now she has to prove that she’s grown as a person, and is able to truly give love to her man.

    Who would be…? Hmm. I guess not Jack. He’s pretty clear on that, at least. Just when you thought the couples were in their proper alignments…

  584. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="327212"]ANYWAY, love, love, love the zombie possession theory! That is just so cool. Richard as the High Priest of Baron Jacob–or some such thing, where the Cylons have gone, Resurrection in the Temple of Doom. The same Others, cycling through time after time, kidnapping kids to possess–freakish and Bizzah!

    ….sips coffee, already had too much caffeine…
    ***
    That was pretty funny

    Lizs wrote:
    And Ben didn’t kill everyone in Dharmaville, just his Dad. The other Others completed the Purge. Maybe a technicality, because we don’t know if it was his idea or not (he says not, but Ben is a, what’s that, a liar?), or if it was ordered by Someone Else, or if it was his plan on the how…

    You know I just watched ‘the man behind the curtain’ again…

    I take that back I went to the synopsis on lostpedia.

    WHY does ben look the same age he does in the prent when he’s in the van with his dad and opens the canister. Somethings wierd here.

    How old is he in 77? lets say at the oldest 16…so in 87 he’s 26. I think the purge is 1992.

    I’m saying he looks a hell of a lot older that . maybe not bens body???[/quote]

    _____

    I think he must have been 15 in 1977. Am I wrong? 30 when he kills his dad. So 46 right now? I might have messed the math up. I have said before he looked the same when he was 30.

  585. Tasha says:

    Sorry I just realized what you are saying….

  586. MacGruber says:

    [quote comment="327212"]

    How old is he in 77? lets say at the oldest 16…so in 87 he’s 26. I think the purge is 1992.
    [/quote]
    Seriously? They just told us that Ben was 8 when he met alpert in 1973, he would be 12 in 1977 and 27 at the time of the purge, maybe 28, it was his b-day. This is your brain ( Liz’s statements ), and this is your brain on drugs ( adapa1 statements ). Stay off the pipe kids.

  587. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327225"][quote comment="327212"]

    How old is he in 77? lets say at the oldest 16…so in 87 he’s 26. I think the purge is 1992.
    [/quote]
    Seriously? They just told us that Ben was 8 when he met alpert in 1973, he would be 12 in 1977 and 27 at the time of the purge, maybe 28, it was his b-day. This is your brain ( Liz’s statements ), and this is your brain on drugs ( adapa1 statements ). Stay off the pipe kids.[/quote]
    Listen up Jerk…… Notice I said “at the oldest” all you did was prove him younger which doesn’t answer my question. and it’s not polite to accuse people of something just because you the I.Q of a time traveling rat and can’t possibly comprehend anything discussed. So it’s no surprise to me that you have NOTHING to say, And you took my cool handle my cool handle… I mean that’s what jerks do right?

  588. adapa1 says:

    So I went to lostpedia to research the black rock…and came across several points that actually gives my theory a bit more substance:

    John Locke (August 29, 1632 – October 28, 1704) was an English philosopher. Locke is considered the first of the British Empiricists, but is equally important to social contract theory. John Locke, the philosopher, met prominent English politician, Anthony Cooper, in 1666 at Oxford. Locke persuaded Cooper to undergo an operation for his liver infection that saved his life. In LOST, Anthony Cooper comes to Locke with a kidney problem and Locke donates his own kidney to save his life.

    More about the philosopher: His ideas had enormous influence on the development of epistemology and political philosophy, and he is widely regarded as one of the most influential Enlightenment thinkers and contributors to liberal theory. His writings influenced Voltaire and Rousseau, many Scottish Enlightenment thinkers, as well as the American revolutionaries. This influence is reflected in the American Declaration of Independence. Locke’s theory of mind is often cited as the origin for modern conceptions of identity and “the self”, figuring prominently in the later works of philosophers such as David Hume, Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Immanuel Kant. Locke was the first philosopher to define the self through a continuity of “consciousness.” He also postulated that the mind was a “blank slate” or “tabula rasa”; that is, contrary to Cartesian or Christian philosophy, Locke maintained that people are born without innate ideas. [1]
    “Tabula Rasa,” the title of a first season episode, is the name John Locke gave to the philosophical position that human beings are born without innate knowledge. It translates to

    Jeremy Bentham
    Jeremy Bentham (15 February 1748–6 June 1832) was an English jurist, philosopher, and legal and social reformer. He was a political radical, and a leading theorist in Anglo-American philosophy of law. He was a child prodigy and was found as a toddler sitting at his father’s desk reading a multi-volume history of England and began his study of Latin at the age of three.
    He was best known for his advocacy of utilitarianism, a form of consequentialism, meaning that the moral worth of an action is determined by its outcome – the ends justify the means. Utilitarianism argued that the “right” action or policy was that which would cause “the greatest happiness of the greatest number”. His critics objected saying that it would therefore “…be acceptable to torture one person if this would produce an amount of happiness in other people outweighing the unhappiness of the tortured individual.”
    Bentham also designed a famous prison structure called the “Panopticon”, which creates a sense of constant surveillance and paranoia amongst prisoners.
    Bentham was also known for his outspoken opposition to the French revolutionary discourse of natural rights, an idea championed by philosopher John Locke (whose father, also named John Locke, worked for Jeremy Bentham). He also suggested a procedure for estimating the moral status of any action. His principle regards “good” as that which produces the greatest amount of physical or spiritual pleasure, and the minimum amount of pain; and “evil” as that which produces the most pain without the pleasure.
    Bentham also argued that the ability to suffer, not the ability to reason, must be the benchmark of how we treat other beings. He stated that if the ability to reason were the criterion, many human beings, including babies and disabled people, would have to be treated as though they were things, rather than beings.
    Magnus Hanso was the great grandfather of Alvar Hanso (as revealed by Javier Grillo-Marxuach [1]). A 19th-century sea captain and shipping merchant, he possibly commanded the Black Rock. The blast door map suggests he was buried on the Island near the site of the ship wreckage. The blast door map contains the notation “known final resting place of Magnus Hanso/Black Rock,” suggesting Magnus Hanso indeed owned the Black Rock ship, and that he was likely on board when the vessel crashed on the Island.

  589. adapa1 says:

    Found this theory on lostpedia too…… Ilove it!!

    The Black Rock was at sea, location to be determined, when the Island rose out of the sea below it in the arrival phase of a move. It is unknown what the effect of the impact was on the ship. It does not appear to have been crushed as if something hit it hard from below; it does look more as if the ship was moving forward at a respectable rate of speed and the stationary Island rose under it, bringing the ship to a sudden stop and ripping out its keel.

  590. hlcfym says:

    I had a random thought last night based on Richard Alpert….. I was thinking its quite possible that our losties are not the only characters who are not where they are supposed to be on their own timelines. Our losties have assimilated in the 70’s undetected so far, whos to say that others couldn’t have done the same at some point. I thought that because Jack’s watch is no longer ticking, that he is “stuck” and won’t age further until he gets back to 2007, so isn’t it possible that Richard could actually be from the future but stuck in the past and thats why he doesn’t age?? I was also thinking that Richard may have a role such as Abbodon, that he helps people do what they are supposed to do, while acting on the behalf of Jacob. And maybe when and if he succeeds he gets to go back to his own time, or atleast jacobs strange exsistance would come to some sort or conclusion. Please forgive me if this makes no sense….like I said “random thought”.

  591. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327251"]I had a random thought last night based on Richard Alpert….. I was thinking its quite possible that our losties are not the only characters who are not where they are supposed to be on their own timelines. Our losties have assimilated in the 70’s undetected so far, whos to say that others couldn’t have done the same at some point. I thought that because Jack’s watch is no longer ticking, that he is “stuck” and won’t age further until he gets back to 2007, so isn’t it possible that Richard could actually be from the future but stuck in the past and thats why he doesn’t age?? I was also thinking that Richard may have a role such as Abbodon, that he helps people do what they are supposed to do, while acting on the behalf of Jacob. And maybe when and if he succeeds he gets to go back to his own time, or atleast jacobs strange exsistance would come to some sort or conclusion. Please forgive me if this makes no sense….like I said “random thought”.[/quote]

    I’m down with that RA scenario!!

    I’m still saying john is Jacob ..before that He was Magnus Hanso the captain of the black rock.

    young widmore “so you think he knows this island beter than me?” ….

    Indeed I do

  592. Slugdoc says:

    On the “Evil Juliet” idea — I didn’t appreciate how significant that in this episode, it is Juliet who instigiates bringing Ben to the others.

    How convenient.

  593. Tasha says:

    WHY IS IT I KEEP SAYING BEN WAS 30 at time of Purge??? It was 28…28…28…trying to photoshop that in my mind. Sorry guys:(

  594. Jim in Georgia says:

    I was the original poster of the following:

    If you die and are buried, you’re dead forever (I hope; I don’t want to see Nikki and Paulo again and Shannon was a real pain in the…neck.) In 1954, the Others buried the dead soldiers.

    If you die and are left on the ground the Island absorbs you if it wants you (Goodwin was not wanted) and you are reborn (at the Temple?). Karl and Rousseau — and maybe Alex — were “on their way.” Ben taking time to mourn his daughter was an act.

    What does this tell us about the “Viking” funeral of Colleen Picket?

    It grew out of theory I had put on the LP about who buried Rousseau and Karl. (We don’t really know what happened to Alex, except that Ben wasn’t gone long enough to dig a grave.)

    I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I think the important part is that the two bodies weren’t really buried; their faces were still visible. They were also closer together than they had been when we saw them die. I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job.

    BTW, I don’t think Colleen, Mikhail, Bonnie and Greta were “off-Island” because they were still over its “continental shelf” (there’s probably a better term).

    What’s left? The Island takes you back if it wants you. If it doesn’t…. But if laying the corpse out on the surface (with appropriate ceremony?) is the way to rebirth, what was the point of sending Colleen off in a burning boat?

  595. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="327182"]I have an odd feeling we’re going to get an episode specifically about the Black Rock pretty soon.. probably Alpert’s backstory[/quote]

    * * * * *

    I certainly hope so. They owe us!

    8) Jim

  596. Jim in Georgia says:

    This is better formatted than 594!

    [quote comment="327263"]I was the original poster of the following:

    If you die and are buried, you’re dead forever (I hope; I don’t want to see Nikki and Paulo again and Shannon was a real pain in the…neck.) In 1954, the Others buried the dead soldiers.

    If you die and are left on the ground the Island absorbs you if it wants you (Goodwin was not wanted) and you are reborn (at the Temple?). Karl and Rousseau — and maybe Alex — were “on their way.” Ben taking time to mourn his daughter was an act.

    What does this tell us about the “Viking” funeral of Colleen Picket?

    * * * * *

    It grew out of theory I had put on the LP about who buried Rousseau and Karl. (We don’t really know what happened to Alex, except that Ben wasn’t gone long enough to dig a grave.)

    I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I think the important part is that the two bodies weren’t really buried; their faces were still visible. They were also closer together than they had been when we saw them die. I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job.

    BTW, I don’t think Colleen, Mikhail, Bonnie and Greta were “off-Island” because they were still over its “continental shelf” (there’s probably a better term).

    What’s left? The Island takes you back if it wants you. If it doesn’t…. But if laying the corpse out on the surface (with appropriate ceremony?) is the way to rebirth, what was the point of sending Colleen off in a burning boat?[/quote]

    8) Jim

  597. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327268"]This is better formatted than 594!

    [quote comment="327263"]I was the original poster of the following:

    …I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job…

    [/quote]

    8) Jim[/quote]
    _____________________________
    So Jim, you discarded all the possibilities for who buried Danielle and Karl. Who’s left?

  598. adapa1 says:

    Sorry Jim but I’m comming up with a blank. Who was Colleen again. was she one of the Other who was shot?

  599. Duke says:

    [quote comment="327273"][quote comment="327268"]This is better formatted than 594!

    [quote comment="327263"]I was the original poster of the following:

    …I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job…

    [/quote]

    8) Jim[/quote]
    _____________________________
    So Jim, you discarded all the possibilities for who buried Danielle and Karl. Who’s left?[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Did we see them get buried?

  600. Duke says:

    Off topic………………Does anyone have any ideas on why Miles requested 3.2 million dollars from Ben? I think we will get an answer soon but was wondering what people speculate about this. Maybe the sum of the 815 settlement?

    Also the travelling gunshot wound. I just rewatched WHH and in the previously on section it CLEARLY shows him getting shot in the heart area and then when Jin rolls him over the wound is magically on the other side. I mentioned it in an earlier post and cannot believe there isn’t more outrage about it. It seems like a pretty big mix-up to me than just some simple oversight.

  601. Duke says:

    [quote comment="327279"]Sorry Jim but I’m comming up with a blank. Who was Colleen again. was she one of the Other who was shot?[/quote]
    __________________
    She was Danny’s wife shot by Sun when her, Sayid, and Jin took Desmond’s boat and we saw the four-toed statue for the first time.

  602. Duke says:

    To answer my earlier question Kate was singing Aaron the the same song that Claire requested the potential adoptive parents sing to him during the first season episode raised by another. Thanks for checking on that for me. Oh no problem you are welcome.

  603. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327286"]To answer my earlier question Kate was singing Aaron the the same song that Claire requested the potential adoptive parents sing to him during the first season episode raised by another. Thanks for checking on that for me. Oh no problem you are welcome.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    PJSander answered your question in post #221. It was “Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket”.

  604. adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="327282"]Off topic………………Does anyone have any ideas on why Miles requested 3.2 million dollars from Ben? I think we will get an answer soon but was wondering what people speculate about this. Maybe the sum of the 815 settlement?

    Also the travelling gunshot wound. I just rewatched WHH and in the previously on section it CLEARLY shows him getting shot in the heart area and then when Jin rolls him over the wound is magically on the other side. I mentioned it in an earlier post and cannot believe there isn’t more outrage about it. It seems like a pretty big mix-up to me than just some simple oversight.[/quote]

    You now I’m still disgusted with that!

  605. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="327281"][quote comment="327273"][quote comment="327268"]This is better formatted than 594!

    [quote comment="327263"]I was the original poster of the following:

    …I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job…

    [/quote]

    8) Jim[/quote]
    _____________________________
    So Jim, you discarded all the possibilities for who buried Danielle and Karl. Who’s left?[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Did we see them get buried?[/quote]

    * * * * *

    We didn’t see Rousseau and Karl get buried. Ben sent Alex to the Temple for safety, accompanied by Karl and Rousseau (Hmm). Enroute, while they were taking a water break, Rousseau and Karl were shot. Alex held up her hands and identified herself. The next time we saw her, Keamy had her and soon killed her.

    No one buried the bodies. The Island is taking them back. This is a thoroughly creepy thought.

    8) Jim

  606. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327251"]I had a random thought last night based on Richard Alpert….. I was thinking its quite possible that our losties are not the only characters who are not where they are supposed to be on their own timelines. Our losties have assimilated in the 70’s undetected so far, whos to say that others couldn’t have done the same at some point. I thought that because Jack’s watch is no longer ticking, that he is “stuck” and won’t age further until he gets back to 2007, so isn’t it possible that Richard could actually be from the future but stuck in the past and thats why he doesn’t age?? I was also thinking that Richard may have a role such as Abbodon, that he helps people do what they are supposed to do, while acting on the behalf of Jacob. And maybe when and if he succeeds he gets to go back to his own time, or atleast jacobs strange exsistance would come to some sort or conclusion. Please forgive me if this makes no sense….like I said “random thought”.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I have posted a similar RA scenario making RA from the future. But my scenario was that he traveled to the past (maybe all the way to ancient Egypt) to try to fix something that saves the world (or his people,etc.).

    So I think you are onto something.

  607. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="327263"]I was the original poster of the following:

    If you die and are buried, you’re dead forever (I hope; I don’t want to see Nikki and Paulo again and Shannon was a real pain in the…neck.) In 1954, the Others buried the dead soldiers.

    If you die and are left on the ground the Island absorbs you if it wants you (Goodwin was not wanted) and you are reborn (at the Temple?). Karl and Rousseau — and maybe Alex — were “on their way.” Ben taking time to mourn his daughter was an act.

    What does this tell us about the “Viking” funeral of Colleen Picket?

    It grew out of theory I had put on the LP about who buried Rousseau and Karl. (We don’t really know what happened to Alex, except that Ben wasn’t gone long enough to dig a grave.)

    I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I think the important part is that the two bodies weren’t really buried; their faces were still visible. They were also closer together than they had been when we saw them die. I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job.

    BTW, I don’t think Colleen, Mikhail, Bonnie and Greta were “off-Island” because they were still over its “continental shelf” (there’s probably a better term).

    What’s left? The Island takes you back if it wants you. If it doesn’t…. But if laying the corpse out on the surface (with appropriate ceremony?) is the way to rebirth, what was the point of sending Colleen off in a burning boat?[/quote]
    +++++++
    Jim, I think the mercenaries did bury them. Out of charactor for them but they were told to by Widmore. He knew what would happen if they didn’t.

    I still think Collens burrial at sea was due to dying on the boat. Not touching sacred ground or something like that.

  608. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="327291"]No one buried the bodies. The Island is taking them back. This is a thoroughly creepy thought.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Very interesting theory….pondering….

  609. Duke says:

    [quote comment="327289"][quote comment="327282"]Off topic………………Does anyone have any ideas on why Miles requested 3.2 million dollars from Ben? I think we will get an answer soon but was wondering what people speculate about this. Maybe the sum of the 815 settlement?

    Also the travelling gunshot wound. I just rewatched WHH and in the previously on section it CLEARLY shows him getting shot in the heart area and then when Jin rolls him over the wound is magically on the other side. I mentioned it in an earlier post and cannot believe there isn’t more outrage about it. It seems like a pretty big mix-up to me than just some simple oversight.[/quote]

    You now I’m still disgusted with that![/quote]
    _____________________________
    You are the only one to comment.

  610. adapa1 says:

    So I just finished watching “the Brigg” and “the man behind the curttain” again and I’m so glad I did. I really see this whole TT conciosness/possesion theory taking off.

    I feel 100% about what several point in my comment from earlier:

    “If your future self dies in the past your consciousness is sent to that past version. Meaning charlotte’s mind went back to the kid version in the 70’s just as Desmonds would have been merged with his younger self had not Farraday saved him. Of course, if you do die and younger consciousness reboots itself into your younger version, you remember nothing.”

    I’m pretty sure 815 is everyones second time around and course correction. I think they all died in the past first time and just rebooted as themselves again when they were born in the future. We all know the phrase “see you in another life” from the show.” But when that happens you remember NOTHING. RA telling John he needs to find his purpose and kill his dad makees a lot more sense now.

    I think the rebirth of Ben and John are differnet though. It seems that conscious time travel was used purposfully. Whith the result being them BOTH being born three months three months premature, and that I just can’t overlook. Kinda makes sense if your consciuones is from a full grown man in the futre. Not to mention that Horace or Ra manage to be there for both births. Then john draws the black smoke as a child!! right!! Then i noticed that RA calls him benjain Linus in the last episode when ben had only met him on time in the forest and only gave the name ben. then there’s this:
    from ” the Brigg”
    Sawyer asks Cooper how he got to the Island. He says he was driving down I-10 through Tallahassee when someone slammed into the back of his car, sending him through the divider at 70 miles per hour. He remembers being put in an ambulance, where one of the paramedics smiled at him, and then waking up gagged and tied to a chair. A door opened and he was staring at his dead son Locke. –

    It sounds like some one went through a lot of trouble to help John get over his immediate past to under hir real purpose.

  611. Duke says:

    [quote comment="327293"][quote comment="327263"]I was the original poster of the following:

    If you die and are buried, you’re dead forever (I hope; I don’t want to see Nikki and Paulo again and Shannon was a real pain in the…neck.) In 1954, the Others buried the dead soldiers.

    If you die and are left on the ground the Island absorbs you if it wants you (Goodwin was not wanted) and you are reborn (at the Temple?). Karl and Rousseau — and maybe Alex — were “on their way.” Ben taking time to mourn his daughter was an act.

    What does this tell us about the “Viking” funeral of Colleen Picket?

    It grew out of theory I had put on the LP about who buried Rousseau and Karl. (We don’t really know what happened to Alex, except that Ben wasn’t gone long enough to dig a grave.)

    I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I think the important part is that the two bodies weren’t really buried; their faces were still visible. They were also closer together than they had been when we saw them die. I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job.

    BTW, I don’t think Colleen, Mikhail, Bonnie and Greta were “off-Island” because they were still over its “continental shelf” (there’s probably a better term).

    What’s left? The Island takes you back if it wants you. If it doesn’t…. But if laying the corpse out on the surface (with appropriate ceremony?) is the way to rebirth, what was the point of sending Colleen off in a burning boat?[/quote]
    +++++++
    Jim, I think the mercenaries did bury them. Out of charactor for them but they were told to by Widmore. He knew what would happen if they didn’t.

    I still think Collens burrial at sea was due to dying on the boat. Not touching sacred ground or something like that.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    When did Widmore tell them to bury the bodies? What episode?

  612. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="327279"]Sorry Jim but I’m comming up with a blank. Who was Colleen again. was she one of the Other who was shot?[/quote]
    Colleen Pickett was married to Danny Pickett and was shot by Sun on the boat in S3E2, The Glass Ballerina.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Colleen

  613. roses12 says:

    Anyone able to help?

    why is looking glass under water, i mean engineering nightmare what was the purpose of that (not its function, it being under water)?

    why didnt sun flash of the plane when the other losties did? i dont get that she shouldnt be on 815 as i always felt that her not taking the opportunity to flee was a course correction to get her on the plane? so she was meant to be on 815 imho

    If the post-dharma/natives/others were living with Ben when 815 crashed why did he have to brain wash them?

    What happened to Sun being in cohoots with Charles?

    Again i ask did Ben stick his followers in the Temple? To protect them from the time travelling? Or the war that is coming?

    Do you think Rose & Bernard are gone native?

    Why did Des have to stay on the island (to turn the key, to get Charlie to scrafrice himself), is that done? Will anyone else miss him????

    i know i always ask questions, rarely moving the debate along but you lot all ways seems to make the mud a bit clearer? Dont even get me started with the big picture? thanks :)

  614. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="327283"]
    She was Danny’s wife shot by Sun when her, Sayid, and Jin took Desmond’s boat and we saw the four-toed statue for the first time.[/quote]
    The Four-toe Statue first appeared in the season 2 finale, Live Together, Die Alone.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Four-toed_statue

  615. roses12 says:

    favourite bit of show (next to hurley/miles) was Locke calling the shots to Ben. Felt that the power balance had shifted to Locke who seems the most self assured he as ever been. Felt that Jock sitting over Ben, Ben lying down emphasised this. Loved when Locke said welcome to the land of the living. I am no longer dead. no zombies. no purgatory. no soul swapping. loved it.

  616. adapa1 says:

    I really am a terrible typer …..sorry guys ;-)

  617. Rita says:

    [quote comment="327306"]favourite bit of show (next to hurley/miles) was Locke calling the shots to Ben. Felt that the power balance had shifted to Locke who seems the most self assured he as ever been. Felt that Jock sitting over Ben, Ben lying down emphasised this. Loved when Locke said welcome to the land of the living. I am no longer dead. no zombies. no purgatory. no soul swapping. loved it.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    It’s going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. I am trying to keep an open mind about all the possibilities, keeping track of what we actually KNOW (have been shown) vs what theories we have all put forth. I have a feeling it may turn out to be something altogether different than ANY of us have dreamed up. It won’t be long until we find out EVERYTHING!

  618. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="327291"]
    No one buried the bodies. The Island is taking them back. This is a thoroughly creepy thought.
    [/quote]
    That is a creepy thought. I agree with CM and her theory though. I think the bodies were buried. We saw Miles digging with his hands in freshly turned dirt. He uncovered their faces.

    http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1401-298.html

    http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1401-303.html

  619. Steve says:

    [quote comment="327296"][quote comment="327289"][quote comment="327282"]Off topic………………Does anyone have any ideas on why Miles requested 3.2 million dollars from Ben? I think we will get an answer soon but was wondering what people speculate about this. Maybe the sum of the 815 settlement?

    Also the travelling gunshot wound. I just rewatched WHH and in the previously on section it CLEARLY shows him getting shot in the heart area and then when Jin rolls him over the wound is magically on the other side. I mentioned it in an earlier post and cannot believe there isn’t more outrage about it. It seems like a pretty big mix-up to me than just some simple oversight.[/quote]

    You now I’m still disgusted with that![/quote]
    _____________________________
    You are the only one to comment.[/quote]

    Duke you make a good point about the moving gun shot. I am really interested to see where this goes. As for the 3.2 million however, The total Oceanic settlement must have been much higher because Sun was able to buy a controlling share of the stock in Paik industries with her settlement. I was thinking maybe the number has some significance to Ben, and miles was delivering a message. Just a random thaught…

  620. Steve says:

    [quote comment="327253"]On the “Evil Juliet” idea — I didn’t appreciate how significant that in this episode, it is Juliet who instigiates bringing Ben to the others.

    How convenient.[/quote]

    I would Juliet to try to save Ben since they are both Others. Juliet once killed a fellow other, and she was eventually “Marked” for her crime. This marking is consistent with a theory I had on possession, part of which I included in post 366. The mark on the base of Juliet’s back is in the same location as Ben’s tumor. This is possibly the infection point where the Others occupy their hosts. By Marking the spot, the others may have un-possessed juliet and made sure that she could not be One of Them again.

    Does this jive or am I babbling again?

  621. LostJunkie says:

    About comment 591…young Widmore saying that would certainly explain how Locke seems to have a certain kinship and knowledge of the Island when he first arrived in Season 1. That is, if he was the captain of the Black Rock. Perhaps he’s been there before, and perhaps there is some sort of reincarnation going on.

    About comment 592…exactly, how convenient that Juliet did that. In her defense, Kate also wanted Ben to live and Juliet was just responding to that, but still, how convenient.

    About comment 600, regarding Ben’s “traveling gunshot wound”…what if the Island knows Ben isn’t supposed to die and it’s not a continuity error on the part of the writers but, rather, the Island actually moving his wound? This is Lost, after all, so why couldn’t the Island do that? Not saying this is the case, just throwing it out there as a possibility. Because that would be a GROSS continuity error, considering that he had been shot literally one episode prior. It’s not like this happened two seasons later.

  622. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="327299"][quote comment="327293"][quote comment="327263"]I was the original poster of the following:

    If you die and are buried, you’re dead forever (I hope; I don’t want to see Nikki and Paulo again and Shannon was a real pain in the…neck.) In 1954, the Others buried the dead soldiers.

    If you die and are left on the ground the Island absorbs you if it wants you (Goodwin was not wanted) and you are reborn (at the Temple?). Karl and Rousseau — and maybe Alex — were “on their way.” Ben taking time to mourn his daughter was an act.

    What does this tell us about the “Viking” funeral of Colleen Picket?

    It grew out of theory I had put on the LP about who buried Rousseau and Karl. (We don’t really know what happened to Alex, except that Ben wasn’t gone long enough to dig a grave.)

    I had three candidates for the burial detail, Others, Survivors and Mercenaries.

    I think the important part is that the two bodies weren’t really buried; their faces were still visible. They were also closer together than they had been when we saw them die. I had discarded the Mercenaries as the burial party because the quickest way to dispose of or hide a body in the jungle is to carry it a few yards off a trail and I didn’t think burial was a function of their mission. I had discarded both the Others and the Survivors as candidates because they would have done a better job.

    BTW, I don’t think Colleen, Mikhail, Bonnie and Greta were “off-Island” because they were still over its “continental shelf” (there’s probably a better term).

    What’s left? The Island takes you back if it wants you. If it doesn’t…. But if laying the corpse out on the surface (with appropriate ceremony?) is the way to rebirth, what was the point of sending Colleen off in a burning boat?[/quote]
    +++++++
    Jim, I think the mercenaries did bury them. Out of charactor for them but they were told to by Widmore. He knew what would happen if they didn’t.

    I still think Collens burrial at sea was due to dying on the boat. Not touching sacred ground or something like that.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    When did Widmore tell them to bury the bodies? What episode?[/quote]
    +++++
    Sorry, that is my theory. We never heard him tell them that.

  623. Duke says:

    [quote comment="327303"][quote comment="327283"]
    She was Danny’s wife shot by Sun when her, Sayid, and Jin took Desmond’s boat and we saw the four-toed statue for the first time.[/quote]
    The Four-toe Statue first appeared in the season 2 finale, Live Together, Die Alone.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Four-toed_statue%5B/quote%5D

    ____________________________
    Which is either the episode I described or the one right after it. I never gave a specific episode. The storylines from those episodes are/were connected.

  624. Duke says:

    [quote comment="327323"][quote comment="327296"][quote comment="327289"][quote comment="327282"]Off topic………………Does anyone have any ideas on why Miles requested 3.2 million dollars from Ben? I think we will get an answer soon but was wondering what people speculate about this. Maybe the sum of the 815 settlement?

    Also the travelling gunshot wound. I just rewatched WHH and in the previously on section it CLEARLY shows him getting shot in the heart area and then when Jin rolls him over the wound is magically on the other side. I mentioned it in an earlier post and cannot believe there isn’t more outrage about it. It seems like a pretty big mix-up to me than just some simple oversight.[/quote]

    You now I’m still disgusted with that![/quote]
    _____________________________
    You are the only one to comment.[/quote]

    Duke you make a good point about the moving gun shot. I am really interested to see where this goes. As for the 3.2 million however, The total Oceanic settlement must have been much higher because Sun was able to buy a controlling share of the stock in Paik industries with her settlement. I was thinking maybe the number has some significance to Ben, and miles was delivering a message. Just a random thaught…[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I too have re-thought my own theory. I remembered meeting Miles for the first time when he did the ghost whisperer thang and found the money. Maybe he knows that 3.2 is what Ben has access to in cash on the island. Just a thought nothing set in stone obviously. It is lost, of course.

  625. Duke says:

    [quote comment="327338"]About comment 591…young Widmore saying that would certainly explain how Locke seems to have a certain kinship and knowledge of the Island when he first arrived in Season 1. That is, if he was the captain of the Black Rock. Perhaps he’s been there before, and perhaps there is some sort of reincarnation going on.

    About comment 592…exactly, how convenient that Juliet did that. In her defense, Kate also wanted Ben to live and Juliet was just responding to that, but still, how convenient.

    About comment 600, regarding Ben’s “traveling gunshot wound”…what if the Island knows Ben isn’