The Variable

faraday_s5.jpg
The title of tonight’s episode pays homage to and provides reference to one of the best from last season that featured Desmond, “The Constant”. Perhaps tonight we’ll learn what makes Desmond so different/special. Looks like it will be non-stop drama from here on out until the end of the season!

ABC’s Official Show Description

Spoiler Alert

“On the 100th episode milestone for the series, the time of reckoning has begun when Daniel Faraday comes clean regarding what he knows about the Island.”

The centricity of this episode will focus on Faraday in the form of a flash back – at this point, scientifically speaking, it would seem that Faraday knows the most about the Island and far much more than he has let on so far. We should get a better understanding of how he ended up in the black-ops DHARMA initiative as well.

The Variable (second half of this video) Preview:

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415 Responses to The Variable

  1. Duke says:

    Let me finally admit that it appears that my hypothesis was wrong. Apparently Hawking is Faraday’s mother. There I said it you can gloat if you want to but know that I do own up when I am wrong which seems to be every week. Big shock to everyone I know.

  2. steve says:

    Duke, I wish I had a penny for each time I was wrong in my Lost theories. No gloating from me!!!

  3. Jason says:

    Since Faraday seems to have so much insight about the island and time travel, does anyone think he knows who Jacob is? I know we all have our theories….I’m banking on Jacob being a character we’ve already seen (Jack??). But I’m guessing somehow Faraday already knows.

  4. Hammer says:

    Well I gonna guess that Dan is The Variable. His actions that he learned in the past three years on how to change WHH makes him the variable.

    Sort of like how Desmond was The Constant. I know they lead us to believe that Penny was the constant…and she was for Desmond, but I think the title pointing at Des because we found out that Des was Dan’s constant from his notebook.

  5. Heidi says:

    Not to be a complete moron, but what’s a constant exactly? Especially in this setting

  6. steve says:

    The mystery for me, is how the actions of our characters on the island impact life in the off-island world.
    Does the purge have a significant impact outside the confines of the island?
    Why does Daniel tell the Others to bury the Jughead on the island instead of the obvious solution of getting rid of it?
    Why does Locke’s girlfriend die of a brain Aneurysm?

    There are so many more…

    Maybe we will get answers soon.

  7. Amber says:

    Hey guys I have a quick question if anyone knows or has heard about this I seen in a magazine that the creators said that a main and minor character would die this season!!! Is that true? Its so wierd how I cant even sit here and hope that its one person or the other. After all these years you feel close to all the characters they are all important. Has anyone else heard about this?

  8. steve says:

    [quote comment="332183"]Hey guys I have a quick question if anyone knows or has heard about this I seen in a magazine that the creators said that a main and minor character would die this season!!! Is that true? Its so wierd how I cant even sit here and hope that its one person or the other. After all these years you feel close to all the characters they are all important. Has anyone else heard about this?[/quote]

    _____________________________________
    Amber, I heard about this, and others mentioned this on the blog. My money is on Sayid. Not that I want to loose the character, just have a gut feeling that he may be finished with his job for the island.

  9. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332183"]Hey guys I have a quick question if anyone knows or has heard about this I seen in a magazine that the creators said that a main and minor character would die this season!!! Is that true? Its so wierd how I cant even sit here and hope that its one person or the other. After all these years you feel close to all the characters they are all important. Has anyone else heard about this?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Your question me think, IF Dan is The Variable, wouldn’t someone want that variable removed? Maybe Dan is the next to die.

  10. Ra says:

    maybe it is Dan…he does seem to be the one that knows everything about this stuff…it would e just like this show to kill him before he can give all the answers…and also…they do show him repeatedly saying “we can all die”……foreshadowing?

  11. Hammer says:

    Man oh man, it’s been a long two weeks…can’t type.

  12. katesFriend says:

    Charlotte and Abbadon? Seems like 2 dead already! Please don’t be Sayid!!

  13. m@ says:

    [quote comment="332186"][quote comment="332183"]Hey guys I have a quick question if anyone knows or has heard about this I seen in a magazine that the creators said that a main and minor character would die this season!!! Is that true? Its so wierd how I cant even sit here and hope that its one person or the other. After all these years you feel close to all the characters they are all important. Has anyone else heard about this?[/quote]

    _____________________________________
    Amber, I heard about this, and others mentioned this on the blog. My money is on Sayid. Not that I want to loose the character, just have a gut feeling that he may be finished with his job for the island.[/quote]

    Charlotte already died, I would constitute her as a main character…are you saying someone else besides her is also supposed to die?!

  14. Amber says:

    when i think of main characters guys i dont think about dan charrlotte and company im thinking one of our main losties. but i hope its one of them…but i dont think so. i think of them as more minor characters. Even juliette i dont really think is a main character. it gonna be jack kate hurley sayid sawyer sun of jin…in my opinion

  15. Amber says:

    I am with you Hammer I can barely type its been to long

  16. Vaughn K says:

    Just wanted to remind everyone that the President is speaking tonight so for anyone that records it make sure to record a little longer since these speeches almost always go over.

    I think this is going to be a good episode with a lot of answers probably and I think that Faraday will be able to explain time traveling a lot better now so we will all have that cleared up.

  17. Amber says:

    If its Sawyer im quit! lol no im kidding I could never stop watching this show, but that would be really sad. He has always been my fav. Cant wait for tonights episode. Im off work and school today so im just going around my house cleaning random things trying to get the time to pass. sad I know lol

  18. steve says:

    Noted three coincidences for tonight:

    President marks first 100 days in office
    Lost has 100th episode

    President reads script from teleprompter
    Lost characters read script from teleprompter.

    President will answer some questions and create other questions.
    Lost episode will answer some questions and create other questions.

    This is meant to be humorous and non-political so don’t bash me from either side of the isle.

  19. CLIFF FROM CHICAGO says:

    WHAT IF THE PERSON WHO DIES IS JACK, BUT HE WILL STILL PLAY A PREDOMINANT ROLE WITH CLAIRE AND CHRISTIAN? THOUGHTS?

  20. steve says:

    [quote comment="332199"]WHAT IF THE PERSON WHO DIES IS JACK, BUT HE WILL STILL PLAY A PREDOMINANT ROLE WITH CLAIRE AND CHRISTIAN? THOUGHTS?[/quote]

    _________________________________

    That would be a very interesting story line, but just how big is that cabin?

  21. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332199"]WHAT IF THE PERSON WHO DIES IS JACK, BUT HE WILL STILL PLAY A PREDOMINANT ROLE WITH CLAIRE AND CHRISTIAN? THOUGHTS?[/quote]

    WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?!

    It is a given that dying on LOST doesn’t have to mean the end of your character, and I accept your theory as one that could work.

    However, I don’t put a lot of stock in the “two characters are going to die” information as being the “whole truth” simply because LOST has always existed on the idea that spoilers are BAD. I haven’t heard that from the horses’ mouths, but if it IS true, I think it is meant to throw us off.

    That’s my 2¢.

    : ) P

  22. CLIFF FROM CHICAGO says:

    Sorry PJ, I am used to typing in all CAPS for work, when you actually read it does it hurt your ears? I will from now on, k?

  23. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="332176"]Well I gonna guess that Dan is The Variable. His actions that he learned in the past three years on how to change WHH makes him the variable.

    Sort of like how Desmond was The Constant. I know they lead us to believe that Penny was the constant…and she was for Desmond, but I think the title pointing at Des because we found out that Des was Dan’s constant from his notebook.[/quote]
    **************
    I think Dan has something to do with the variable which I guess would make him the variable. Did that make any sense? I guess I am thinking that something is going to “change” as a result of Dan…maybe he has figured a way to change WHH or at least try. Dan has been an interesting character (mysterious imo) and I think we are going to see why he is so important to the story line…maybe get a little more insight into him which I am sure will answer some questions as well as bring up many more! Wednesday is my new favorite Friday;)
    mis

  24. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="332187"][quote comment="332183"]Hey guys I have a quick question if anyone knows or has heard about this I seen in a magazine that the creators said that a main and minor character would die this season!!! Is that true? Its so wierd how I cant even sit here and hope that its one person or the other. After all these years you feel close to all the characters they are all important. Has anyone else heard about this?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Your question me think, IF Dan is The Variable, wouldn’t someone want that variable removed? Maybe Dan is the next to die.[/quote]
    ************************
    I think this is possible, but he seems too important to the story…I could see them giving us some very useful information on Dan and just when we think more pieces of the puzzle are fitting together…BAM…Dan is gone…would be quite an impact. It seems Sayid would make the most sense (to me) since I am not sure how else he fits into solving the puzzle…seems he is a lesser of an important Lost character (although then I was thinking that last weeks recap of the O6 was to really say “hey these 6 are important for a reason…they were ‘chosen’ for a reason”…hmmm
    -miss

  25. DBM says:

    Just a quick thought on the subject of “main characters” dying. Locke, though he is now no longer dead (according to TV time; technically of course, his current liveliness is not a function of no longer being dead, but rather of not having died yet), did “die” during the course of this season. So, he might qualify…

  26. Adapa1 says:

    I’m just glad Faraday is back so we can all get some REAL answers. I gonna have to guess that if any person was the variable if would have to be Desmond since he’s stilll the only only one the rules don’t apply too.

  27. hank vega says:

    The biblical character Jacob had 12 sons. I am beginning to think that all the characters with an unknown father are the sons of Jacob. This will include Locke, Sawyer, Faraday, Desmond, Kate, Aaron, etc. Some other characters could be related to him, even if they don’t know it. I am thinking of Widmore and Benjamin Linus. That is why they became leaders in the first place.

    Jacob also had a twin brother, Esau. Christian Sheppard? Maybe that is why he becomes his house speaker.

  28. hank vega says:

    The other possibility for the twin is Richard Alpert.

  29. steve says:

    [quote comment="332208"]The biblical character Jacob had 12 sons. I am beginning to think that all the characters with an unknown father are the sons of Jacob. This will include Locke, Sawyer, Faraday, Desmond, Kate, Aaron, etc. Some other characters could be related to him, even if they don’t know it. I am thinking of Widmore and Benjamin Linus. That is why they became leaders in the first place.

    Jacob also had a twin brother, Esau. Christian Sheppard? Maybe that is why he becomes his house speaker.[/quote]
    ___________________________

    I thought that Locke’s biological father was the man from Tallahassee, sawyers biological father killed himself, and Aaron’s biological father was Claire’s boyfriend Thomas.
    Even with this said, Fathers either play a major role in the character’s lives, or they play no role at all. strange.

  30. Miss lost says:

    I find it interesting that one person is considered a constant (des) who they say the rules do not apply to him? I am curious what rules? All of them? Time travel? WHH? There is a reason besides the hatch explotion that Des is so special and i think Widmore knows what it is…maybe it is why he does not like him and why he didn’t want him with Penny…
    a second character (Dan) may also be considered the variable…or could it be an event that is the variable…
    Or could it be that Des is both the constant who is the variable? so many questions….
    -miss

  31. steve says:

    [quote comment="332214"]I find it interesting that one person is considered a constant (des) who they say the rules do not apply to him? I am curious what rules? All of them? Time travel? WHH? There is a reason besides the hatch explotion that Des is so special and i think Widmore knows what it is…maybe it is why he does not like him and why he didn’t want him with Penny…
    a second character (Dan) may also be considered the variable…or could it be an event that is the variable…
    Or could it be that Des is both the constant who is the variable? so many questions….
    -miss[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    I wonder if Des could both Daniel’s Constant, and a variable in the WHH time conundrum. IMO it is more likely that Desmond is a factor that can act upon a variable in order to effect a change in the variable.

  32. Miraks says:

    Some thoughts since I last was on here.

    The Purge/ Widmore
    This conversation is from “Cabin Fever” when Ben is talking to Hurley at the pit with the Dharma corpses:
    HURLEY: So… This is where you shot Locke and left him for dead, huh?

    BEN: Yes, Hugo, I was standing right where you are now when I pulled the trigger. Should have realized at the time that it was pointless, but… I really wasn’t thinking clearly.

    [Hurley steps back a little]

    HURLEY: Is that why you killed all these people, too?

    BEN: I didn’t kill them.

    HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn’t wipe out the DHARMA Initiative–

    BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn’t my decision.

    HURLEY: Then whose was it?

    BEN: Their leader’s.

    HURLEY:But I thought you were their leader.

    BEN: Not always.

    So, if Ben was not the leader of the Others at the time of the Purge, what if Widmore was? What if it was Widmore who ordered and is responsible for wiping out the Dharma people? We know he was still on the Island at that time (we saw him being escorted off the island AFTER the purge). What if the reason he got banished was that he killed inocent people in the Purge? We only saw Ben gas his father, and that could have been a “special” favor to him- he might have wanted to be the one to take care of his dad for personal reasons. BUT that does not mean he killed everyone else.

    Alex/ rules
    I think that when Ben dared Keamy to shoot Alex, he did not believe that the gun would fire/ that she could really be killed. Ben had previously tried to shoot Locke, but the island wqould not allow Locke to die. We saw Michael trying to kill himself, but the island would not let him/ the gun would not fire. I think Ben was convinced that it was impossible to shoot Alex, and that is why he taunted Keamy. The rules that have changed have to do something with who can be killed- not necessarily with Alex in particular. Not sure WHAT exactly that would imply about the rules.

  33. hank vega says:

    [quote comment="332216"][quote comment="332214"]I find it interesting that one person is considered a constant (des) who they say the rules do not apply to him? I am curious what rules? All of them? Time travel? WHH? There is a reason besides the hatch explotion that Des is so special and i think Widmore knows what it is…maybe it is why he does not like him and why he didn’t want him with Penny…
    a second character (Dan) may also be considered the variable…or could it be an event that is the variable…
    Or could it be that Des is both the constant who is the variable? so many questions….
    -miss[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    I wonder if Des could both Daniel’s Constant, and a variable in the WHH time conundrum. IMO it is more likely that Desmond is a factor that can act upon a variable in order to effect a change in the variable.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    According to wikipedia,
    “A constant in mathematics is an amount that does not change, over time or otherwise: it is a fixed value. In most fields of discourse the term is an antonym of “variable”, but in mathematical parlance a mathematical variable may sometimes also be called a constant.”

  34. hank vega says:

    [quote comment="332212"][quote comment="332208"]The biblical character Jacob had 12 sons. I am beginning to think that all the characters with an unknown father are the sons of Jacob. This will include Locke, Sawyer, Faraday, Desmond, Kate, Aaron, etc. Some other characters could be related to him, even if they don’t know it. I am thinking of Widmore and Benjamin Linus. That is why they became leaders in the first place.

    Jacob also had a twin brother, Esau. Christian Sheppard? Maybe that is why he becomes his house speaker.[/quote]
    ___________________________

    I thought that Locke’s biological father was the man from Tallahassee, sawyers biological father killed himself, and Aaron’s biological father was Claire’s boyfriend Thomas.
    Even with this said, Fathers either play a major role in the character’s lives, or they play no role at all. strange.[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    As far as I know, Locke’s mother told him that his father was looking for him. How do we know for sure that was his father? Maybe that is why the island wanted him dead. I believe we haven’t seen any of the other father figures, except for Jack’s and Hurley’s.

    Jacob had only one daughter (kate?). I found this line in wikipedia:
    “he blessed each of his 12 sons with varying blessings he deemed appropriate. It has been understood that Judah, the fourth born, received the primary blessing, due to Reuben’s incest and Simeon’s and Levi’s betrayal.”

    Reuben could be Sawyer, Simeon and Levi could as well be Widmore and Linus. Judah in this theory would be John Locke.

  35. steve says:

    [quote comment="332219"][quote comment="332216"][quote comment="332214"]I find it interesting that one person is considered a constant (des) who they say the rules do not apply to him? I am curious what rules? All of them? Time travel? WHH? There is a reason besides the hatch explotion that Des is so special and i think Widmore knows what it is…maybe it is why he does not like him and why he didn’t want him with Penny…
    a second character (Dan) may also be considered the variable…or could it be an event that is the variable…
    Or could it be that Des is both the constant who is the variable? so many questions….
    -miss[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    I wonder if Des could both Daniel’s Constant, and a variable in the WHH time conundrum. IMO it is more likely that Desmond is a factor that can act upon a variable in order to effect a change in the variable.[/quote]

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    According to wikipedia,
    “A constant in mathematics is an amount that does not change, over time or otherwise: it is a fixed value. In most fields of discourse the term is an antonym of “variable”, but in mathematical parlance a mathematical variable may sometimes also be called a constant.”[/quote]

    _______________________________

    Correct ! Now consider a point in a Cartesian coordinate system (for our case 2 dimensional X-Y axis) the point moving according to the function y = 4 From the x axis the point travels from 0 to the right along a straight line. the location is variable depending on the value of y. Now, from the y axis, the point is constant at value of 4. so the point can be both a variable from one point of view, and a constant from another point of view. In this way Desmond is a constant for Daniel, and a variable for someone else, or everyone else.

    Did that make sense, or am smoking funny math stuff?

  36. steve says:

    [quote comment="332221"][quote comment="332212"][quote comment="332208"]The biblical character Jacob had 12 sons. I am beginning to think that all the characters with an unknown father are the sons of Jacob. This will include Locke, Sawyer, Faraday, Desmond, Kate, Aaron, etc. Some other characters could be related to him, even if they don’t know it. I am thinking of Widmore and Benjamin Linus. That is why they became leaders in the first place.

    Jacob also had a twin brother, Esau. Christian Sheppard? Maybe that is why he becomes his house speaker.[/quote]
    ___________________________

    I thought that Locke’s biological father was the man from Tallahassee, sawyers biological father killed himself, and Aaron’s biological father was Claire’s boyfriend Thomas.
    Even with this said, Fathers either play a major role in the character’s lives, or they play no role at all. strange.[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    As far as I know, Locke’s mother told him that his father was looking for him. How do we know for sure that was his father? Maybe that is why the island wanted him dead. I believe we haven’t seen any of the other father figures, except for Jack’s and Hurley’s.

    Jacob had only one daughter (kate?). I found this line in wikipedia:
    “he blessed each of his 12 sons with varying blessings he deemed appropriate. It has been understood that Judah, the fourth born, received the primary blessing, due to Reuben’s incest and Simeon’s and Levi’s betrayal.”

    Reuben could be Sawyer, Simeon and Levi could as well be Widmore and Linus. Judah in this theory would be John Locke.[/quote]
    ________________

    Locke wass a DNA mach for his father’s kidney.

  37. shellonius funk says:

    heidi…
    The Constant was the title of the episode where des reunited with penny. faraday told des that in order to stop the time flashes from happening to him, he had to identify a constant–something from 1996 that would be meaningful to him in 2004/current time. at the end of the ep, it was revealed in dan’s notebook that desmond is farraday’s constant.

  38. hank vega says:

    [quote comment="332225"][quote comment="332221"][quote comment="332212"][quote comment="332208"]The biblical character Jacob had 12 sons. I am beginning to think that all the characters with an unknown father are the sons of Jacob. This will include Locke, Sawyer, Faraday, Desmond, Kate, Aaron, etc. Some other characters could be related to him, even if they don’t know it. I am thinking of Widmore and Benjamin Linus. That is why they became leaders in the first place.

    Jacob also had a twin brother, Esau. Christian Sheppard? Maybe that is why he becomes his house speaker.[/quote]
    ___________________________

    I thought that Locke’s biological father was the man from Tallahassee, sawyers biological father killed himself, and Aaron’s biological father was Claire’s boyfriend Thomas.
    Even with this said, Fathers either play a major role in the character’s lives, or they play no role at all. strange.[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    As far as I know, Locke’s mother told him that his father was looking for him. How do we know for sure that was his father? Maybe that is why the island wanted him dead. I believe we haven’t seen any of the other father figures, except for Jack’s and Hurley’s.

    Jacob had only one daughter (kate?). I found this line in wikipedia:
    “he blessed each of his 12 sons with varying blessings he deemed appropriate. It has been understood that Judah, the fourth born, received the primary blessing, due to Reuben’s incest and Simeon’s and Levi’s betrayal.”

    Reuben could be Sawyer, Simeon and Levi could as well be Widmore and Linus. Judah in this theory would be John Locke.[/quote]
    ________________

    Locke wass a DNA mach for his father’s kidney.[/quote]

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Last Sunday I went to visit my uncle who received a kidney from a 13 year old who died in a car accident. The man from tallahassee could have been anybody, or just a relative.

  39. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332221"]I found this line in wikipedia:
    “he blessed each of his 12 sons with varying blessings he deemed appropriate. It has been understood that Judah, the fourth born, received the primary blessing, due to Reuben’s incest and Simeon’s and Levi’s betrayal.”

    Reuben could be Sawyer, Simeon and Levi could as well be Widmore and Linus. Judah in this theory would be John Locke.[/quote]

    If we are going to attach characters to the sons of Jacob, then I think Boone would be Reuben because of his relationship with Shannon.

    [quote comment="332225"]

    Locke wass a DNA mach for his father’s kidney.[/quote]

    According to the private investigator, there was a positive DNA match between Locke and Cooper. However, the PI could have been paid to say that. I was never in the Cooper-as-Locke’s-daddy camp.

    : ) P

  40. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="332229"]
    According to the private investigator, there was a positive DNA match between Locke and Cooper. However, the PI could have been paid to say that. I was never in the Cooper-as-Locke’s-daddy camp.
    [/quote]
    And Charlie’s alive.:)

  41. pete says:

    Charlotte, Dan, and Miles were all on the island as children along with Ben when his dad was in the D.I. so did Ben know who they were when they showed up on the freighter?

  42. Adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="332204"][quote comment="332176"]Well I gonna guess that Dan is The Variable. His actions that he learned in the past three years on how to change WHH makes him the variable.

    Sort of like how Desmond was The Constant. I know they lead us to believe that Penny was the constant…and she was for Desmond, but I think the title pointing at Des because we found out that Des was Dan’s constant from his notebook.[/quote]
    **************
    I think Dan has something to do with the variable which I guess would make him the variable. Did that make any sense? I guess I am thinking that something is going to “change” as a result of Dan…maybe he has figured a way to change WHH or at least try. Dan has been an interesting character (mysterious imo) and I think we are going to see why he is so important to the story line…maybe get a little more insight into him which I am sure will answer some questions as well as bring up many more! Wednesday is my new favorite Friday;)
    mis[/quote]

    *****
    The button was a 108 mintue time loop. I still say Desmond is the only one who arrived during this time who actually made if off the island. If that doesn’t make Desmond special ithe the whole WHH scheme… I don’t know what does. I mean the 108 loop just makes sense to me. My guess is that dear old Farrady is gonna give us some clues to exacly that tonight.

  43. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="332164"]Let me finally admit that it appears that my hypothesis was wrong. Apparently Hawking is Faraday’s mother. There I said it you can gloat if you want to but know that I do own up when I am wrong which seems to be every week. Big shock to everyone I know.[/quote]
    Not here to gloat, just wondering how you came to the conclusion?

  44. Adapa1 says:

    We still have six numbers from the equation all adding to 108 …and six stations dedicated to changing one of these variables. They pretty much told us this in the last two dharma videos. Now the Swam is one of these staions dedicated to changing one thius this core value numbers..or variables if you will. So it makes sense that whatever the incident is ….has everything to do with changing one of these variables to save the world

  45. ConfusedDoc says:

    Just hoping for some quick help. I always read this but don’t submit stuff. . . .I always seem to be two steps behind in my theories. A bit off topic, but I know this is somewhere that could help. .and we are before the mass of post show comments. I forgot to PVR Lost tonight and I’m not home until after it airs . .it has RUINED my day!!!! Just wondering where the quickest way to get it would be, ABC.com doesn’t help me because I’m in Canada, and only you Americans can see it on there. Thanks in advance. . .and I’m a big fan of the theory that the last scene of Lost will be the same as the opening scene (Jack’s eye opening post crash). Keep up the great posts everyone, I’ll keep reading and applauding them.

  46. Rita says:

    While mulling over everyone’s thoughts, and remembering last the discourse 2 weeks ago about whether or not the Faraday that emerged from the sub was past or present Faraday, I had another idea: Is it possible that the Daniel we know has ALWAYS been future Dan? Just as the scientists at Ann Arbor would see off island Dan as “present day”, so we have always seen him that way as well. What if he has ALWAYS been from the future? He would have ALWAYS known what would happen, who everyone was, remembered everybody, etc., though he has never let on that he did. Not sure where that would get us, but it is just a thought.

  47. Adapa1 says:

    [quote comment="332248"]While mulling over everyone’s thoughts, and remembering last the discourse 2 weeks ago about whether or not the Faraday that emerged from the sub was past or present Faraday, I had another idea: Is it possible that the Daniel we know has ALWAYS been future Dan? Just as the scientists at Ann Arbor would see off island Dan as “present day”, so we have always seen him that way as well. What if he has ALWAYS been from the future? He would have ALWAYS known what would happen, who everyone was, remembered everybody, etc., though he has never let on that he did. Not sure where that would get us, but it is just a thought.[/quote]
    *****
    I’m totally with you on that Rita

  48. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="332248"]While mulling over everyone’s thoughts, and remembering last the discourse 2 weeks ago about whether or not the Faraday that emerged from the sub was past or present Faraday, I had another idea: Is it possible that the Daniel we know has ALWAYS been future Dan? Just as the scientists at Ann Arbor would see off island Dan as “present day”, so we have always seen him that way as well. What if he has ALWAYS been from the future? He would have ALWAYS known what would happen, who everyone was, remembered everybody, etc., though he has never let on that he did. Not sure where that would get us, but it is just a thought.[/quote]

    Rita, I’ve kind of always thought this may be the case for RA too. We just assume he doesn’t age b/c we see him the same in every era but what if he just travels to those time periods – kind of how to Locke, it had only been a few days since he met Widmore as a kid but Widmore had aged 30 years.

  49. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332267"]Rita, I’ve kind of always thought this may be the case for RA too. We just assume he doesn’t age b/c we see him the same in every era but what if he just travels to those time periods – kind of how to Locke, it had only been a few days since he met Widmore as a kid but Widmore had aged 30 years.[/quote]

    I considered that about RA, but I don’t think so. If he were always from the future, there would NOT have been a time in the past when he didn’t know who Locke was.

    In thinking about Rita’s thought about Faraday though, I can see that as a possibility.

    : ) P

  50. intolost says:

    Yeah, I’m glad we get to see Faraday tonight. Did Jules look pregnant?

  51. Tasha says:

    Did anyone just see that commercial???? What did YOU see?? WTF?

  52. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332273"]Did anyone just see that commercial???? What did YOU see?? WTF?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Nope, I was preparing my tacos….what did YOU see?

  53. Tasha says:

    First time was a coffin. Second commercial break it was two people kissing. This can’t be part of LOST can it??

  54. Tasha says:

    THis time it was someone surfing. That’s what hubby said. I was typing.

  55. kindly says:

    The latest one looked like an ultrasound?

  56. Tasha says:

    Yeah it was. WHOA.

  57. Kramer says:

    Damn it how did faraday say he was gunna destroy the energy i missed it

  58. Hammer says:

    Hammer
    Comment 119, posted 1 week, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Bedtime for Bonzo.

    If Faraday was off the island for three years…did he go talk to his younger self in the outside world…put a bunch of entries into his notebook and come back with a way to change WHH?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    So Danny boy thinks he is the variable that can changed WHH…..hmmmmm.

  59. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332282"]Damn it how did faraday say he was gunna destroy the energy i missed it[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Me too…he mumbles and whispers way too much!!

  60. Hammer says:

    Well so far, it looks like Dan was wrong, his plan got course corrected…WHH.

  61. Kramer says:

    oh shitttttttttttttttttttttttttt

  62. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332282"]Damn it how did faraday say he was gunna destroy the energy i missed it[/quote]

    He said he would blow up Jughead.

    : ) P

  63. Kramer says:

    this episode was INSANE

  64. PJSander says:

    Okay so Hawking is Faraday’s mum and Widmore is his father? Crazy! I was REALLY wrong on that one!

    : ) P

  65. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332290"]Okay so Hawking is Faraday’s mum and Widmore is his father? Crazy! I was REALLY wrong on that one!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    Well, not brother and sister but at least we had them related!

  66. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332287"][quote comment="332282"]Damn it how did faraday say he was gunna destroy the energy i missed it[/quote]

    He said he would blow up Jughead.

    : ) P[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    He said he would get him a hydrogen bomb.

  67. Andrés says:

    So… will Dan die?

  68. Mr. $tuart says:

    I love how Farraday, the great professor of time travel, looked like he was going to crap a brick when he saw Richard Alpert looking exactly the way he did in 1954. Hilarious.

    I was really hoping that Sawyer would shoot Radzinski. I thought Rose was the worst character in television history and then they introduced us to Radzinski.

  69. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332293"]So… will Dan die?[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    For those who mentioned earlier that a main character was suppose to die this season, maybe he is it.

  70. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332293"]So… will Dan die?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++=
    They left the door open (very LOST like), but the conversation with his mom makes me think he dies…he was confirming (to me) that she sent him back to die because he has to die to let WHH.

  71. ajira luggage jockey says:

    Okay, after tonight, I’m convinced that between this show and 24, we are witnessing the two greatest seasons of any TV shows, ever.
    The fact that Hawking and Widmore were both willing to sacrifice their own son for the sake of the island’s destiny (?????) now puts them in the good guy column (????). Or at least convinces me that they know something that will blow our friggin minds in the next year and change.
    Any sacrifice that great demands something magnificently grandiose to justify it. I am sooooooo pumped to see where this and the final season take us.

  72. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332295"][quote comment="332293"]So… will Dan die?[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    For those who mentioned earlier that a main character was suppose to die this season, maybe he is it.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I think so….I think the 2000′s Dan had to die in the 70′s BEFORE the ‘incident’ so that he can’t stop WHH.

  73. Mr. $tuart says:

    Did he tell Charlotte something different or did he tell her what she said he told her a couple of episodes ago? They cleverly didn’t show us.

  74. katesFriend says:

    But if WHH, why wouldn’t Ellie try to tell Daniel not to go on Widmore’s trip? It seems he would have listened to her either way – why not at least try to save your son’s life?

    Tonight made me feel like Ellie is not good!

  75. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332296"]They left the door open (very LOST like), but the conversation with his mom makes me think he dies…he was confirming (to me) that she sent him back to die because he has to die to let WHH.[/quote]

    But wouldn’t letting WHH be not doing ANYTHING?

    : ) P

  76. LuliB says:

    Odd thought. You know when Ben originally captured certain Losties? Kate, Sawyer, Jack…. back when Michael originally took off with his son?

    Now we see, slowly unfolding, who Alpert knows is from the future. First it was Sawyer, now maybe Kate and Jack will show their faces, and maybe that’s why they get the special invite? To test and see what they knew from the “past?” That’s why Ben went in as a spy as Henry. He knew some of these were in the past, via Alpert, and was trying to piece it together. Just the way we saw Daniel piecing together his life until it all came together when his mom shot him.

    not sure, this is hazy in my head…

  77. Mr. $tuart says:

    Was anybody else worried when Penny left Charlie with the nurse?

  78. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332301"]But if WHH, why wouldn’t Ellie try to tell Daniel not to go on Widmore’s trip? It seems he would have listened to her either way – why not at least try to save your son’s life?

    Tonight made me feel like Ellie is not good![/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Because she is the one that has been telling us that you can’t stop destiny….that course correction will happen if you try.

  79. LuliB says:

    [quote comment="332301"]But if WHH, why wouldn’t Ellie try to tell Daniel not to go on Widmore’s trip? It seems he would have listened to her either way – why not at least try to save your son’s life?

    Tonight made me feel like Ellie is not good![/quote]

    ____________________

    probably because she has a greater sense of perspective that he was a part of the equation to get the losties back where they are in order to influence the “war” that’s been foreshadowed.

  80. Anko says:

    ok so you guys said that there would be one main character and one mainish character dying, but if the main character was locke and he came back to life, what are the chances that faraday will come back too?

  81. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332304"]Was anybody else worried when Penny left Charlie with the nurse?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Oh good catch…maybe that’s how Hawking gets them back to the island….to be my original prediction of Des and Penny = Adam and Eve…remember, she told Des the island isn’t done with him yet.

  82. BaileyLovesLost says:

    I think that even if they try to not do anything, something will happen to course correct. Like when Jack was not going to help young Ben and was going to just let him die, then Sawyer and Kate took Ben to the Hostiles. I think even if Eloise didn’t convince Daniel to go the island he would have ended up going there anyway.
    There better be a really good reason for Eloise and Widmore to sacrifice their own son for the island! So for all of those years when Daniel was growing up, Eloise was pressuring him to focus on science because she knew he would eventually have to go back to the island so she could shoot him.

  83. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment="332304"]Was anybody else worried when Penny left Charlie with the nurse?[/quote]

    Yes!! As soon as the nurse said, “This other nurse will watch your son” I screamed, NO! Don’t leave Charlie!! I guess this show has just taught us not to trust anyone, lol!

  84. Hammer says:

    IF destiny cannot be stopped…then Ellie and Charles DID NOT sacrifice their son for the island…they merely accepted his fate and KNOW they can’t save him.

  85. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="332308"][quote comment="332304"]Was anybody else worried when Penny left Charlie with the nurse?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Oh good catch…maybe that’s how Hawking gets them back to the island….to be my original prediction of Des and Penny = Adam and Eve…remember, she told Des the island isn’t done with him yet.[/quote]
    _______________

    Yeah it was like Kate leaving Aaron in a hotel room by himself. With everything going on, I wouldn’t leave my child with anybody. Craziness.

  86. flgrl says:

    Hawking definitely seemed to always know that he would die judging from her conversations with him throughout his life. I still don’t understand how she can do all these and seem to move through space and time. Someone must give her a bunch of information now.

    What a fantastic show!!!

  87. Hammer says:

    I am glad they confirmed Widmore was the one behind the fake 815.

    Ben told the truth about something!

  88. LizS says:

    Ugh! Another one bites the dust.
    Poooor tortured Dan!!!!

    He’s dead, right? Or just about?

    Well, this makes some sense of Eloise, but what convinced her that it HAD to be, and that not only could she not change it, but she had to help MAKE it happen???

    I can’t imagine how horrible that had to be.

  89. BaileyLovesLost says:

    Hmmm…. how are Sawyer/LaFleur and Juliet going to get out of the mess they’re in now?

  90. katesFriend says:

    If Daniel is dead, when did he and Chang make the comicon video??

  91. lilmamma says:

    okay does anyone think that the end of this show will have flight 815 land in L.A. and that will be it…..none of it will have really ever happened?

  92. flgrl says:

    [quote comment="332304"]Was anybody else worried when Penny left Charlie with the nurse?[/quote]

    8888888

    Yes, but I was sure it was just motherly anxiety. I certainly hope they don’t steal Des and Pen’s child. They are the only couple that makes me happy on this show. It definitely seemed like Juliet and Sawyer were laying the groundwork for either stabbing each other in the back or some kind of falling out between them.

  93. Mr. $tuart says:

  94. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332319"]If Daniel is dead, when did he and Chang make the comicon video??[/quote]

    Good point!

    [quote comment="332318"]Hmmm…. how are Sawyer/LaFleur and Juliet going to get out of the mess they’re in now?[/quote]

    Maybe the drilling at the Swan station that releases all that energy causes another “purple sky event” or time flash that sends all the appropriate people back to the future. LaFleur and Juliet just evaporate from view.

    : ) P

  95. flgrl says:

    [quote comment="332320"]okay does anyone think that the end of this show will have flight 815 land in L.A. and that will be it…..none of it will have really ever happened?[/quote]

    *************

    It damn sure better not be! That’s no better than “It was all a dream!”

  96. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332320"]okay does anyone think that the end of this show will have flight 815 land in L.A. and that will be it…..none of it will have really ever happened?[/quote]

    If it is, there will be BIG trouble in Nashville.

    : ) P

  97. Hammer says:

    Anyone get a good look at the book Widmore picked up when he visited Dan?

  98. Whatheheck says:

    What WHH stands for in your comments?

  99. Hammer says:

    The book looks like a magazine called Wired. In big words accross the cover “The Impossible Gets Real!” maybe an easter egg hint that someone will change WHH?

  100. Ronnie B. says:

    [quote comment="332327"]Anyone get a good look at the book Widmore picked up when he visited Dan?[/quote]

    was it wired or someting worded like that i think??

  101. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332329"]What WHH stands for in your comments?[/quote]

    What happened happened.

    The title of S5E11.

    : ) P

  102. Hammer says:

    WHH = what happened, happened

  103. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332330"]The book looks like a magazine called Wired. In big words accross the cover “The Impossible Gets Real!” maybe an easter egg hint that someone will change WHH?[/quote]

    The May 2009 issue of Wired has an interview with JJ Abrams. I’m just saying…

    : ) P

  104. Hammer says:

    Funniest line tonite:

    You guys were in 1954? Like Fonzie times?

  105. Hammer says:

    FWIW, the code for the fence was 141717….

  106. steve says:

    [quote comment="332318"]Hmmm…. how are Sawyer/LaFleur and Juliet going to get out of the mess they’re in now?[/quote]

    hurley will drive a dharma van into the living room and run over radzinski. It will be the beach scene all over again.

  107. lola says:

    ok-someone help me answer this please, i don’t get why Ellie sends Faraday back to be killed-WHAT was she trying to either prevent or conversely make sure happened???????????

    i was so disappointed when Radzinsky didn’t get blown up!

  108. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332339"][quote comment="332318"]Hmmm…. how are Sawyer/LaFleur and Juliet going to get out of the mess they’re in now?[/quote]

    hurley will drive a dharma van into the living room and run over radzinski. It will be the beach scene all over again.[/quote]

    Well, except Radzinski is the guy who was pushing the button before Inman who was the guy pushing the button before Desmond. So he kind of has to make it.

    : ) P

  109. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332339"]hurley will drive a dharma van into the living room and run over radzinski. It will be the beach scene all over again.[/quote]

    Let me try that again:

    Well, except Radzinski is the guy who was pushing the button before Inman who was the guy pushing the button before Desmond. So he kind of has to make it.

    : ) P

  110. lola says:

    ok-i guess she sends him back so he doesn’t set off the hydrogen bomb???? i’m not sure how i feel about this episode yet, have to watch it again.

    so-is Ellie going to send the
    o6′ers back to “future” and they’ll be little kids in their alternate (or true) 1977?

  111. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="332341"]ok-someone help me answer this please, i don’t get why Ellie sends Faraday back to be killed-WHAT was she trying to either prevent or conversely make sure happened???????????

    i was so disappointed when Radzinsky didn’t get blown up![/quote]

    That’s probably to prevent Faraday to change course of time.

    Hey why is Daniel’s last name’s Faraday since his mother’s a Hawkins and father’s a Widmore?

  112. Mr. $tuart says:

    Can you imagine being stuck down in the Swan Station with Radzinski pushing that freaking button? Isn’t it weird that Inman wasn’t the one that committed suicide. Radzinski has got a huge cobb up his butt all the time. He’s just an annoying character.

  113. Whatheheck says:

    Does anybody know if in 1954, the girl showing Daniel, Sawyer and Juliet the bomb was Ellie, younger?
    If so, that’s probably why Eloise became the only one (with Richard) to know about time travel…

  114. steve says:

    [quote comment="332342"][quote comment="332339"][quote comment="332318"]Hmmm…. how are Sawyer/LaFleur and Juliet going to get out of the mess they’re in now?[/quote]

    hurley will drive a dharma van into the living room and run over radzinski. It will be the beach scene all over again.[/quote]

    Well, except Radzinski is the guy who was pushing the button before Inman who was the guy pushing the button before Desmond. So he kind of has to make it.

    : ) P[/quote]

    daniel said anything goes. they can change the past. besides I was being funny.

  115. lola says:

    [quote comment="332345"][quote comment="332341"]ok-someone help me answer this please, i don’t get why Ellie sends Faraday back to be killed-WHAT was she trying to either prevent or conversely make sure happened???????????

    i was so disappointed when Radzinsky didn’t get blown up![/quote]

    That’s probably to prevent Faraday to change course of time.

    Hey why is Daniel’s last name’s Faraday since his mother’s a Hawkins and father’s a Widmore?[/quote]
    ————————————–

    ha! good question. i know there was a real physicist named Faraday, maybe she chose it for that reason?

  116. BaileyLovesLost says:

    [quote comment="332348"]Does anybody know if in 1954, the girl showing Daniel, Sawyer and Juliet the bomb was Ellie, younger?
    If so, that’s probably why Eloise became the only one (with Richard) to know about time travel…[/quote]

    Yes, it was definately young Ellie.

  117. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332350"]daniel said anything goes. they can change the past. besides I was being funny.[/quote]

    Actually, I knew you were trying to be funny. I was simply pointing out that it couldn’t be Radzinski.

    However, that is not what Daniel said. He said that he, Jack and Kate were in “their present” and therefore were not “safe” in that time. He has never said they can change the past, in fact it was Daniel who coined the term, “whatever happened happened” which has the characters confused.

    : ) P

  118. wally p says:

    [quote comment="332309"]I think that even if they try to not do anything, something will happen to course correct. Like when Jack was not going to help young Ben and was going to just let him die, then Sawyer and Kate took Ben to the Hostiles. I think even if Eloise didn’t convince Daniel to go the island he would have ended up going there anyway.
    There better be a really good reason for Eloise and Widmore to sacrifice their own son for the island! So for all of those years when Daniel was growing up, Eloise was pressuring him to focus on science because she knew he would eventually have to go back to the island so she could shoot him.[/quote]

    This is where I’m confused. Eloise pretty much arranged his whole life perfectly, so that he’d end up in his place in the WHH line of things. In her reasoning towards everything there is no “variable” WHH is WHH …but she met Faraday in 1954, and then spent a good chunk of the rest of her life making sure that he ended up there and that event always happened. If WHH is true, then she shouldn’t have had to do anything, and yet, she pretty much did everything. I just watched Flashes Before your eyes and she takes the same precise actions towards Desmond in that episode. What does she have up her sleeve? destiny indeed.

  119. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332354"]Eloise pretty much arranged his whole life perfectly, so that he’d end up in his place in the WHH line of things. In her reasoning towards everything there is no “variable” WHH is WHH …but she met Faraday in 1954, and then spent a good chunk of the rest of her life making sure that he ended up there and that event always happened. If WHH is true, then she shouldn’t have had to do anything, and yet, she pretty much did everything. I just watched Flashes Before your eyes and she takes the same precise actions towards Desmond in that episode. What does she have up her sleeve? destiny indeed.[/quote]

    Maybe the Whisperers are telling her things so she “always has a plan” like Ben.

    : ) P

  120. steve says:

    [quote comment="332347"]Can you imagine being stuck down in the Swan Station with Radzinski pushing that freaking button? Isn’t it weird that Inman wasn’t the one that committed suicide. Radzinski has got a huge cobb up his butt all the time. He’s just an annoying character.[/quote]

    Radzinshi “committed suicide” After getting see more of Radzinski, I am convinced that Inman just got fed up and wacked him.

  121. LINS says:

    I thought it was hilarious when Sawyer called Kate “Freckles”, to try and get her to come with him and Juliette turned and immediately told her the code…haha, girl drama!!!

    So do you think Jack and Kate will help Ellie and Richard to carry out Dan’s plans to save them all? How would that happen though, if they destroyed the energy or whatever and the Swan station doesn’t have to be the “push the button to save the world” station, that’s great, but it doesn’t explain how Jack and Kate and everyone else get off the island and back to real time? And what time would they go back to? As usual, more and more questions!

    As far as the major death, I don’t think it was Dan, I think they’re holding out till the finale and then it will be someone big and probably sad, like Charlie’s death…

  122. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332353"][quote comment="332350"]daniel said anything goes. they can change the past. besides I was being funny.[/quote]

    Actually, I knew you were trying to be funny. I was simply pointing out that it couldn’t be Radzinski.

    However, that is not what Daniel said. He said that he, Jack and Kate were in “their present” and therefore were not “safe” in that time. He has never said they can change the past, in fact it was Daniel who coined the term, “whatever happened happened” which has the characters confused.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Well, tonite he kind of implied that people are the variables and free will would allow them to change WHH. I took his death (pending confirmation) that he was WRONG.

  123. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="332351"][quote comment="332348"]Does anybody know if in 1954, the girl showing Daniel, Sawyer and Juliet the bomb was Ellie, younger?
    If so, that’s probably why Eloise became the only one (with Richard) to know about time travel…[/quote]

    Yes, it was definately young Ellie.[/quote]

    Ok, so Eloise and Widmore went off the island once, got banished for having a child (or even 2) in the outside world and couldn’t get back on it. Only way for them to impact the island was by sending their gifted child…
    Eloise is also the one not selling the wedding ring to Des, so she wanted to protect Penny from something : I guess Penny has a stronger role to play in the suite… just brainstorming…

  124. Jimmy63 says:

    Two thoughts.Does Daniel get healed the same as Ben and survives. Also whatever happens 4 hours from now should explain what happens tothe statue.Is Jughead in the shadow

  125. lola says:

    sorry-random thoughts in my mind-so faraday asks jack how they got back in 1977, well how did faraday leave the island in 1974? the sub? i guess we’ll never know.

  126. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="332353"][quote comment="332350"]daniel said anything goes. they can change the past. besides I was being funny.[/quote]

    Actually, I knew you were trying to be funny. I was simply pointing out that it couldn’t be Radzinski.

    However, that is not what Daniel said. He said that he, Jack and Kate were in “their present” and therefore were not “safe” in that time. He has never said they can change the past, in fact it was Daniel who coined the term, “whatever happened happened” which has the characters confused.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Daniel just said in this episode that time travelers are variables and can change the past – WHH is wrong. He may be wrong now or Eloise is wrong as he suggests. The fact that Eloise is orchestrating events does suggest that things could change or else that she is simply an instrument of fate. Not clear.

  127. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332362"]sorry-random thoughts in my mind-so faraday asks jack how they got back in 1977, well how did faraday leave the island in 1974? the sub? i guess we’ll never know.[/quote]

    I believe that Miles said that Faraday left on the sub for Ann Arbor. Don’t remember the words, but that is what I inferred.

    : ) P

  128. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="332360"]Two thoughts.Does Daniel get healed the same as Ben and survives. Also whatever happens 4 hours from now should explain what happens tothe statue.Is Jughead in the shadow[/quote]

    that’s an excellent point!

  129. lola says:

    oh yeah-kudos Hammer and others about the whole Faraday/Penny sibling connection

    and yes Jimmy 63-i think jughead is in the shadow…maybe eloise is bitter about having to sacrifice her son, so she sends Ilana and co. to go blow the island to smithereens

  130. Anko says:

    So, you guys don’t think Eloise believes in WHH do you? I mean if she did it wouldn’t make sense to convince her son to go to the island right? And if she was trying to stop him from changing the past, why does she want the plan to crash or the hatch to be built?

  131. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="332356"][quote comment="332354"]Eloise pretty much arranged his whole life perfectly, so that he’d end up in his place in the WHH line of things. In her reasoning towards everything there is no “variable” WHH is WHH …but she met Faraday in 1954, and then spent a good chunk of the rest of her life making sure that he ended up there and that event always happened. If WHH is true, then she shouldn’t have had to do anything, and yet, she pretty much did everything. I just watched Flashes Before your eyes and she takes the same precise actions towards Desmond in that episode. What does she have up her sleeve? destiny indeed.[/quote]

    Maybe the Whisperers are telling her things so she “always has a plan” like Ben.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Maybe Eloise reads Daniel’s journal? He brought it to the Other’s camp, right?

  132. wally p says:

    [quote comment="332355"][quote comment="332347"]Can you imagine being stuck down in the Swan Station with Radzinski pushing that freaking button? Isn’t it weird that Inman wasn’t the one that committed suicide. Radzinski has got a huge cobb up his butt all the time. He’s just an annoying character.[/quote]

    Radzinshi “committed suicide” After getting see more of Radzinski, I am convinced that Inman just got fed up and wacked him.[/quote]

    This might sound stupid, but I gotta ask this, did anyone ever think that Inman was Sawyer? I thought that back the first time I saw the Inman/Desmond episode, that Inman was an older Sawyer. dumb maybe, but am i the only one who thought this?…

  133. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="332363"][quote comment="332353"][quote comment="332350"]daniel said anything goes. they can change the past. besides I was being funny.[/quote]

    Actually, I knew you were trying to be funny. I was simply pointing out that it couldn’t be Radzinski.

    However, that is not what Daniel said. He said that he, Jack and Kate were in “their present” and therefore were not “safe” in that time. He has never said they can change the past, in fact it was Daniel who coined the term, “whatever happened happened” which has the characters confused.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Daniel just said in this episode that time travelers are variables and can change the past – WHH is wrong. He may be wrong now or Eloise is wrong as he suggests. The fact that Eloise is orchestrating events does suggest that things could change or else that she is simply an instrument of fate. Not clear.[/quote]

    Eloise has been time travelling also. Remember a couple of seasons ago when she sat with Des in UK and pointed him the guy (I think he had red shoes, right after the ring pass) that was going to die… she knew because she has been there before… If she could have prevent this guy from dying, she would have. Same thing with Daniel I think…

  134. lola says:

    refresh my memory why did radzinsky shoot himself again?

  135. LINS says:

    I don’t think Dan meant that only the time travellers can change the past…I think he meant that in life, you can’t assume that things are going to happen exactly as a formula may suggest, because people can think for themselves and have free will to do whatever they want.

    If people weren’t variables, he wouldn’t have been able to interact with Jack and Kate and them, he would have only been able to do what he had done before, exactly as he had already done it…does that make sense?

  136. lola says:

    Eloise has been time travelling also. Remember a couple of seasons ago when she sat with Des in UK and pointed him the guy (I think he had red shoes, right after the ring pass) that was going to die… she knew because she has been there before…

    ==============================

    tonight, i got the impression not that she had been time traveling, but she could see the future. maybe she got this “gift” after the incident happens and she is exposed to massive radiation, like Desmond. She told Penny in the hospital, “for the 1st time in my life, I don’t know what’s going to happen”

  137. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="332370"][quote comment="332355"][quote comment="332347"]

    This might sound stupid, but I gotta ask this, did anyone ever think that Inman was Sawyer? I thought that back the first time I saw the Inman/Desmond episode, that Inman was an older Sawyer. dumb maybe, but am i the only one who thought this?…[/quote]
    ———————————————

    I never thought that B4, but it would be very interesting, and a good bit of writing, and an exellent call by you, if that turned out 2B the case.

    I thought that tonights episode was action packed, and awesome, although it probably raised more questions than it answered….again.

    Dont like the new YoungEllie. The old one (from Jughead) was way hotter, IMO of course.

  138. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="332377"]Eloise has been time travelling also. Remember a couple of seasons ago when she sat with Des in UK and pointed him the guy (I think he had red shoes, right after the ring pass) that was going to die… she knew because she has been there before…

    ==============================

    tonight, i got the impression not that she had been time traveling, but she could see the future. maybe she got this “gift” after the incident happens and she is exposed to massive radiation, like Desmond. She told Penny in the hospital, “for the 1st time in my life, I don’t know what’s going to happen”[/quote]
    =============

    Maybe she doesn’t know because she is living it now as we speak. All the other events, she knew because it had already happened: Faraday’s being killed by her younger her, etc.
    What she doesn’t know is what Des can still do for the rest…?! Does that make sense?!

  139. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="332377"]Eloise has been time travelling also. Remember a couple of seasons ago when she sat with Des in UK and pointed him the guy (I think he had red shoes, right after the ring pass) that was going to die… she knew because she has been there before…

    ==============================

    tonight, i got the impression not that she had been time traveling, but she could see the future. maybe she got this “gift” after the incident happens and she is exposed to massive radiation, like Desmond. She told Penny in the hospital, “for the 1st time in my life, I don’t know what’s going to happen”[/quote]

    Good point! I was just thinking the same thing. When did Desmond’s ability to see the future wear off? He is still unique – the constant – as Daniel was able to communicate with him in the past and he remembered in the future. It seems like time is linear for him regardless. Maybe Eloise is the same.

  140. lola says:

    [quote comment="332370"][quote comment="332355"][quote comment="332347"]Can =ced that Inman just got fed up and wacked him.[/quote]

    This might sound stupid, but I gotta ask this, did anyone ever think that Inman was Sawyer? I thought that back the first time I saw the Inman/Desmond episode, that Inman was an older Sawyer. dumb maybe, but am i the only one who thought this?…[/quote]
    ————————————–

    except that Inman was the army captain dude in iraq w/sayid

  141. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="332380"][quote comment="332377"]Eloise has been time travelling also. Remember a couple of seasons ago when she sat with Des in UK and pointed him the guy (I think he had red shoes, right after the ring pass) that was going to die… she knew because she has been there before…

    ==============================

    tonight, i got the impression not that she had been time traveling, but she could see the future. maybe she got this “gift” after the incident happens and she is exposed to massive radiation, like Desmond. She told Penny in the hospital, “for the 1st time in my life, I don’t know what’s going to happen”[/quote]
    =============

    Maybe she doesn’t know because she is living it now as we speak. All the other events, she knew because it had already happened: Faraday’s being killed by her younger her, etc.
    What she doesn’t know is what Des can still do for the rest…?! Does that make sense?![/quote]

    Sort of like in the Matrix, “You can’t see past the choices you haven’t made yet.”

  142. lola says:

    [quote comment="332380"][quote comment="332377"]Eloise has been time travelling also. Remember a couple of seasons ago when she sat with Des in UK and pointed him the guy (I think he had red shoes, right after the ring pass) that was going to die… she knew because she has been there before…

    ==============================

    tonight, i got the impression not that she had been time traveling, but she could see the future. maybe she got this “gift” after the incident happens and she is exposed to massive radiation, like Desmond. She told Penny in the hospital, “for the 1st time in my life, I don’t know what’s going to happen”[/quote]
    =============

    Maybe she doesn’t know because she is living it now as we speak. All the other events, she knew because it had already happened: Faraday’s being killed by her younger her, etc.
    What she doesn’t know is what Des can still do for the rest…?! Does that make sense?![/quote]
    ————————————–

    but i don’t think the all of the other events already happened, she couldn’t have killed faraday(assuming he’s dead) more than once.

  143. Jimmy63 says:

    Leaving Charlie with the nurse was cause for concern but Eloise left the hospital without him in tow.With Eloise not knowing the future anymore is that the point where the future changes? Damn I need to wrap my head in duct tape before it explodes

  144. Murphey says:

    Desmond was able to change the future or at least postpone Charlie’s death when he was able to see the future. Fate did seem to “correct” though. If Charlie had died earlier, things might have turned out differently, so maybe Desmond did change the future?

  145. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="332382"][quote comment="332370"][quote comment="332355"][quote comment="332347"]

    This might sound stupid, but I gotta ask this, did anyone ever think that Inman was Sawyer? I thought that back the first time I saw the Inman/Desmond episode, that Inman was an older Sawyer. dumb maybe, but am i the only one who thought this?…[/quote]
    ————————————–

    except that Inman was the army captain dude in iraq w/sayid[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-
    Very true. I forgot about that.

    Also, Tonights episode didnt give me any more clues as to the identities of the players on both sides of “the war”.

  146. Frank says:

    Some one made the point about Ellie having Dan’s Journal; it was only filled up to the point he got killed, obvs. No more entries, thus Ellie doesnt know what’s going to happen.

  147. wally p says:

    [quote comment="332379"][quote comment="332370"][quote comment="332355"][quote comment="332347"]

    This might sound stupid, but I gotta ask this, did anyone ever think that Inman was Sawyer? I thought that back the first time I saw the Inman/Desmond episode, that Inman was an older Sawyer. dumb maybe, but am i the only one who thought this?…[/quote]
    ———————————————

    I never thought that B4, but it would be very interesting, and a good bit of writing, and an exellent call by you, if that turned out 2B the case.

    I thought that tonights episode was action packed, and awesome, although it probably raised more questions than it answered….again.

    Dont like the new YoungEllie. The old one (from Jughead) was way hotter, IMO of course.[/quote]
    **********************************

    Yeah, I’ve thought it a million times, but it seemed too far fetched, I don’t know now though… AND I agree, I would have liked to see more Ellie from 1954. At this point she’s too much a manipulative B****, I dont like it at all.

  148. lola says:

    [quote comment="332385"]Leaving Charlie with the nurse was cause for concern but Eloise left the hospital without him in tow.With Eloise not knowing the future anymore is that the point where the future changes? Damn I need to wrap my head in duct tape before it explodes[/quote]
    ==============================

    i thought the same thing about baby charlie, but as u said nothing came out of it.

  149. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="332388"]Some one made the point about Ellie having Dan’s Journal; it was only filled up to the point he got killed, obvs. No more entries, thus Ellie doesnt know what’s going to happen.[/quote]
    =====

    I don’t agree. She got it once the book was completed of all Daniel’s work up to now, so a lot of information for her to get through

  150. Vaughn K says:

    if they stop the incident and they just end up back on the plane and it lands like normal in LA and no one knows each other it will be the worst ending they could possibly think of

    like always this episode answered few questions but also raised many more and WHH is less clear than it has ever been

    P.S. Daniel if you are truly dead than may you rest in peace, you were one of my fav characters

  151. Jimmy63 says:

    With all the time traveling going on could it be that 2yr old Charlie is really our beloved dead Charlie.

  152. Anko says:

    um so have they pretty much said that WHH isn’t real? Now that Dan’s died in 1977 widmore have to get someone else to go on the freighter or if Dan’s plan works then the plain wont crash at all, both changing the past

  153. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="332393"]if they stop the incident and they just end up back on the plane and it lands like normal in LA and no one knows each other it will be the worst ending they could possibly think of[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    I agree that it would be sort of a sad ending, but now that you bring it up, I think its one of the more likely ones.

    I also noticed that they left the question of Whidmore being Daniel’s father open by showing YoungDaniel with only his mother and, at least, letting on like Whidmore and Elloise are on good terms.

  154. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="332392"][quote comment="332388"]Some one made the point about Ellie having Dan’s Journal; it was only filled up to the point he got killed, obvs. No more entries, thus Ellie doesnt know what’s going to happen.[/quote]
    =====

    I don’t agree. She got it once the book was completed of all Daniel’s work up to now, so a lot of information for her to get through[/quote]
    =====
    Thinking of it, I’ve got your point: it’s true that she can’t go further now then what Faraday describes up to his death. My mistake…!

  155. Frank says:

    [quote comment="332392"][quote comment="332388"]Some one made the point about Ellie having Dan’s Journal; it was only filled up to the point he got killed, obvs. No more entries, thus Ellie doesnt know what’s going to happen.[/quote]
    =====

    I don’t agree. She got it once the book was completed of all Daniel’s work up to now, so a lot of information for her to get through[/quote]

    ____

    I dont quite follow; what I mean to say is why she has been so sure of herself is she had Dan’s journal all along and knew what was going to happen. Now that there’s no more info, as she states in the hospital, for the first time in a long while, she doesnt know whats going to happen.

  156. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="332399"][quote comment="332393"]if they stop the incident and they just end up back on the plane and it lands like normal in LA and no one knows each other it will be the worst ending they could possibly think of[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    I agree that it would be sort of a sad ending, but now that you bring it up, I think its one of the more likely ones.
    _______________________________________

    and maybe it would just be me but i would feel like i wasted years of my life watching this show when in the end none of it really happened? i wouldnt even want to go back and watch episodes again cause whats the point none of it ever happened lol but i think the incident will still happen just judging by the name of the season finale.

    is next week the finale?

  157. wally p says:

    [quote comment="332381"][quote comment="332377"]Eloise has been time travelling also. Remember a couple of seasons ago when she sat with Des in UK and pointed him the guy (I think he had red shoes, right after the ring pass) that was going to die… she knew because she has been there before…

    ==============================

    tonight, i got the impression not that she had been time traveling, but she could see the future. maybe she got this “gift” after the incident happens and she is exposed to massive radiation, like Desmond. She told Penny in the hospital, “for the 1st time in my life, I don’t know what’s going to happen”[/quote]

    Good point! I was just thinking the same thing. When did Desmond’s ability to see the future wear off? He is still unique – the constant – as Daniel was able to communicate with him in the past and he remembered in the future. It seems like time is linear for him regardless. Maybe Eloise is the same.[/quote]

    ******************************************
    From FlashesB.Y.E it seems entirely like Eloise is flashing between two conciousness’ the same way that Des is.

    When Des is in the hatch explosion, he goes to a point in his life that already happened, and thats where he meets Eloise. The fact that she is working in the jewlry store PROVES that she went out of her way, to be at that jewlry store when Des flashed back to it. She wasn’t talking to the Desmond who was buying the ring,,, she was talking to the Desmond who just turned the fail safe key… get it? The difference is that Des just ended up there because thats where he was at that time for real. She would have had to arrange to be there.
    The question is from where. Now that she has Daniels journal, she could be flashing from anywhere, and knowing …flashing from 1977 when the swan explodes even.

    I think the journal is the variable.

  158. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="332402"][quote comment="332399"][quote comment="332393"]if they stop the incident and they just end up back on the plane and it lands like normal in LA and no one knows each other it will be the worst ending they could possibly think of[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    I agree that it would be sort of a sad ending, but now that you bring it up, I think its one of the more likely ones.
    _______________________________________

    and maybe it would just be me but i would feel like i wasted years of my life watching this show when in the end none of it really happened? i wouldnt even want to go back and watch episodes again cause whats the point none of it ever happened lol but i think the incident will still happen just judging by the name of the season finale.

    is next week the finale?[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    IDK if next week is the season finale, but seriously, I always knew that none of it ever happened—–Its a TV show :)

  159. Shadow says:

    Wow, just finished watching. What an awesome episode. Somebody help me out though. How did Eloise know that sending Faraday back she would end up killing him? This was all happening to Faraday for the first time, but has already happened for Hawking, right? However, Faraday later grew up and became an adult and went to school……
    HELP!

  160. Hammer says:

    Bedtime of Bonzo.

    Our Adam and Eve had the black and white stones….

    Adam and Eve = Hawking and Widmore?

    (I still think is Des and Penny ;) )

  161. Rumblestilskin says:

    To Hammer: For now, I suspect that they are Rose & Bernard.

    To Shadow: Elloise knew because (for her) it had already happened, and apparently, in her veiw, needed to happen.

    I think Elloise, later, unavoidably, necessarily, inevitably, bore Daniel, and ’round, and ’round it goes (or went).

    Thats just what I think :D

  162. JohnA says:

    So, do you guys think that Faraday is actually dead? He was one of my favorite characters and it seems a very important part of the story. It would suck if he was dead.

    Also, I don’t think that anything the cast does in the past would affect the future. Even as Faraday said in a past episode, it already happened and can’t be changed. It would seem a waste of time to do anything to try to stop it…. unless you’re actually encouraging it. Such as that of young Ben – he cannot be killed in the past because he is in the future. With this, I would find it highly unlikely that the series would end with Oceanic 815 landing safely in LA. The time travel rules in LOST would not allow this….. It is said, though, that rules are meant to be broken. (Just saying).

    Added note…. I think the story of Desmond and Penny is truly the greatest love story of our time, their connection is just so strong.

  163. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="332409"]To Hammer: For now, I suspect that they are Rose & Bernard.

    To Shadow: Elloise knew because (for her) it had already happened, and apparently, in her veiw, needed to happen.

    I think Elloise, later, unavoidably, necessarily, inevitably, bore Daniel, and ’round, and ’round it goes (or went).

    Thats just what I think :D[/quote]

    OK, but if “round and round it goes”, does that mean she keeps killing Dan? That’s not possible, because next time around he would know. I’m so confused! This was clearly the first time that it was happening for him, but Eloise knew that she would kill him? How would she know that except if she had already done it before? And if she had done it before wouldn’t Dan remember? Can someone explain this to me?
    Thanks

  164. JohnA says:

    [quote comment="332407"]Wow, just finished watching. What an awesome episode. Somebody help me out though. How did Eloise know that sending Faraday back she would end up killing him? This was all happening to Faraday for the first time, but has already happened for Hawking, right? However, Faraday later grew up and became an adult and went to school……
    HELP![/quote]

    For Hawking, this is the past, (before Faraday’s birth), and so when she ‘sends’ him off to the island in her future she would know that she would shoot him when he got there, although the young Hawking that shot him did not know that was going to happen.

    Also, the Faraday that was shot was the Faraday from the future, and as such, although he is the past, he is in HIS present, meaning his childhood and adulthood already happened to him. The Daniel Faraday that has yet to be born does not experience this shooting for another 30 ought years.

    Hope that helps!!!! I know, time travel is confusing.

  165. MacGyver says:

    I said as Adapa1 in comment 475 WHH ”
    I think the nosebleeds on both methods of TT are do the proximity one has from the other version of himself AND the duration of consciousness in that version. Too long or too close leads to nosebleeds followed by death. Can’t have two versions of yourself in the 70’s right? Charlotte’s last words was a simple merging of consciousness with her younger self.
    If your future self dies in the past your consciousness is sent to that past version. Meaning charlotte’s mind went back to the kid version in the 70’s just as Desmonds would have been merged with his younger self had not Farraday saved him. Of course, if you do die and younger consciousness reboots itself into your younger version, you remember nothing.

    SO…I think Steve nailed it in #366, and that the others have the ability to unstick ones mind from time and send it to a past/future version of yourself …. OR *drum roll* another persons body or “Remember when we used to celebrate birthdays?”

    Maybe Richard sends the omen kids consciousness to the to the future version of Ben on the smaller island.

    I still say Jacobs consciousness was sent through time into John”

    So Yes….. I’m here becuase it’s my turn to say I told you so. ;-) HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

    I also said (as the novice Adapa1) the EVERY dies in the incident and that it was Daniels fault. I also said someone drops jughead and that is the incident. and what did daniel say tonight……..hahahhahahahah this is great!!!

    So if your still confused let me tell you all again the story of flight 815

    1. everyone from the future who dies incident has their consciounes sent to there future self with no memory(widmores words to daniel tonight)

    2.815 is pure coarse correction for all those that died in the incident.

    3. daniel didn’t know that he/815 survivors cause the incident becuase he died and was sent to his future self with no memory. his parents obviously know this.

    4. daniel is again wrong and it is their destiny to go back. Only so they can AGAIN all die just to go back again on 815. The only way to stop the incident/endgame is to kepp their stubborn non-believing asses on the island like they where supposed to.

    5. They should have listened to John (aka magnus/jocob). Who’s consciouness was Deliberatley sent back to make them stay.

    6. the #’s button…..IS a 108 loop that someone went back in time to to prevent the 815 crash

    7. dan said that they ARE the variables with free will.

    8. I AGAIN will bet anyone willing that the show will end(as stated before) by starting with jack waking up just like in the pilot, then showing us Desmond Willingly pressing the button with penny and charlie there, and the 815ers finally bowing to destiny …. by accepting their fate IS too stay on the island. And with John FINALLY convincing Jack to just believe when he has no memory of why.

    Please refute and debunk in any way. I just want you all to rememeber johns suicide note to jack. “I wish you would have believed” I believe it said. You guys’s theories on everything I will remain open minded to. I don’t care about the smoke monster or the statue because we won’t know the cool back story on RA, the black rock, and the island/lemuria/underworld til next season anyway.

    Some one please have my back on this!!!! reminds me of thinking MAcguyver might die…then realizing he can’t because the show is named after him. He couldn’t die then….and I can’t be wrong now. ;-)

  166. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332241"]Just hoping for some quick help. I always read this but don’t submit stuff. . . .I always seem to be two steps behind in my theories. A bit off topic, but I know this is somewhere that could help. .and we are before the mass of post show comments. I forgot to PVR Lost tonight and I’m not home until after it airs . .it has RUINED my day!!!! Just wondering where the quickest way to get it would be, ABC.com doesn’t help me because I’m in Canada, and only you Americans can see it on there. Thanks in advance. . .and I’m a big fan of the theory that the last scene of Lost will be the same as the opening scene (Jack’s eye opening post crash). Keep up the great posts everyone, I’ll keep reading and applauding them.[/quote]

    I agree with the jack theory….
    and I forgot the page break…… this is my new comment everything before is 475 from WHH

    So Yes….. I’m here becuase it’s my turn to say I told you so. ;-) HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

    I also said (as the novice Adapa1) the EVERY dies in the incident and that it was Daniels fault. I also said someone drops jughead and that is the incident. and what did daniel say tonight……..hahahhahahahah this is great!!!

    So if your still confused let me tell you all again the story of flight 815

    1. everyone from the future who dies incident has their consciounes sent to there future self with no memory(widmores words to daniel tonight)

    2.815 is pure coarse correction for all those that died in the incident.

    3. daniel didn’t know that he/815 survivors cause the incident becuase he died and was sent to his future self with no memory. his parents obviously know this.

    4. daniel is again wrong and it is their destiny to go back. Only so they can AGAIN all die just to go back again on 815. The only way to stop the incident/endgame is to kepp their stubborn non-believing asses on the island like they where supposed to.

    5. They should have listened to John (aka magnus/jocob). Who’s consciouness was Deliberatley sent back to make them stay.

    6. the #’s button…..IS a 108 loop that someone went back in time to to prevent the 815 crash

    7. dan said that they ARE the variables with free will.

    8. I AGAIN will bet anyone willing that the show will end(as stated before) by starting with jack waking up just like in the pilot, then showing us Desmond Willingly pressing the button with penny and charlie there, and the 815ers finally bowing to destiny …. by accepting their fate IS too stay on the island. And with John FINALLY convincing Jack to just believe when he has no memory of why.

    Please refute and debunk in any way. I just want you all to rememeber johns suicide note to jack. “I wish you would have believed” I believe it said. You guys’s theories on everything I will remain open minded to. I don’t care about the smoke monster or the statue because we won’t know the cool back story on RA, the black rock, and the island/lemuria/underworld til next season anyway.

    Some one please have my back on this!!!! reminds me of thinking MAcguyver might die…then realizing he can’t because the show is named after him. He couldn’t die then….and I can’t be wrong now. ;-)

  167. Tasha says:

    WHat I don’t understand is, how do we know that Eloise KNEW she was going to shoot her son? After reading comments, it seems everyone is talking about it, but from my point of view she didn’t know. Just because Dan says that in his final breaths doesn’t really tell us that she knew t6he whole time. OR am I missing something? Please point me in the right direction, as far as her saying she knew. In my point of view, when she was talking to Charles she might have been about to say something else besides that he was going to die. I dont know I am just confused:)

  168. LINS says:

    This episode made me think a lot of the whole “man of science, man of faith” argument that has been present in this show from the beginning. Is it destiny that controls our future, or can we use facts from the past to change the future?

    To me, it’s looking like destiny is winning over changing things. I think even if they did succeed in stopping the Swan incident, something else will happen and they would end up on the island anyway.

    I do think Eloise knew that she was sending Dan back to the island to kill him and I think that’s why Dan was crying when he saw the footage of flight 815.

  169. LINS says:

    [quote comment="332496"]WHat I don’t understand is, how do we know that Eloise KNEW she was going to shoot her son? After reading comments, it seems everyone is talking about it, but from my point of view she didn’t know. Just because Dan says that in his final breaths doesn’t really tell us that she knew t6he whole time. OR am I missing something? Please point me in the right direction, as far as her saying she knew. In my point of view, when she was talking to Charles she might have been about to say something else besides that he was going to die. I dont know I am just confused:)[/quote]

    I don’t think she every said she knew he was going to die…I think from what they showed us, about how she pushed him to become a physicist, pushed him away from close friends/girl friends, encouraged him to go to the island, telling him it would heal him, it seemed like she was setting him up.

  170. LINS says:

    And if you think of it from her (Eloise’s) point of view, if you had a second (or third, or however many) chance to raise your son, knowing that he was going to have to have a part in “saving the world”, wouldn’t you push him hard to make sure he had the best knowledge possible and he was fully equipped to do his job? It would probably change things a bit!

  171. LINS says:

    And to those that were wondering, next week is also a new episode and then the two hour season finale is the week after that.

  172. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332498"][quote comment="332496"]WHat I don’t understand is, how do we know that Eloise KNEW she was going to shoot her son? After reading comments, it seems everyone is talking about it, but from my point of view she didn’t know. Just because Dan says that in his final breaths doesn’t really tell us that she knew t6he whole time. OR am I missing something? Please point me in the right direction, as far as her saying she knew. In my point of view, when she was talking to Charles she might have been about to say something else besides that he was going to die. I dont know I am just confused:)[/quote]

    I don’t think she every said she knew he was going to die…I think from what they showed us, about how she pushed him to become a physicist, pushed him away from close friends/girl friends, encouraged him to go to the island, telling him it would heal him, it seemed like she was setting him up.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    For me…it seemed like the clues were put out there that Hawking knew that Dan was going to die, not necessarily HOW. She didn’t finish her sentence with Widmore, but I think she was going to either say ‘knowing he will die’ or ‘knowing I will kill him’.

  173. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="332353"][quote comment="332350"]daniel said anything goes. they can change the past. besides I was being funny.[/quote]

    Actually, I knew you were trying to be funny. I was simply pointing out that it couldn’t be Radzinski.

    However, that is not what Daniel said. He said that he, Jack and Kate were in “their present” and therefore were not “safe” in that time. He has never said they can change the past, in fact it was Daniel who coined the term, “whatever happened happened” which has the characters confused.

    : ) P[/quote]
    *************
    But imo he was explaining that he never factored humans into his equation before and that humans are variables because they are unpredictable…he WAS trying to change WHH…his mom made sure that didn’t happen. It was obvious that both of his parents realized he MUST go back…it was his destiny! His mom made it a point to tell him about destiny in the opening scene!

    I might have been right in the Some Like it Hoth thread when i guessed Penny and Dan were twins (now I am not sure if they are twins or just related) but they were separated to protect them and that could also be why Dan’s name was changed…for his protection. My question is then, did Widmore have an affair or by that time was Ellie the person off island?
    -mis

  174. Jimmy63 says:

    Tasha in the opening seen with young Daniel at the piano when Eloise comes into the room and talks with him about his destiny she says it is “her job” to keep him on his path.Knowing she shoots her son in his future her past is what she is hoping is the variable that can change perhaps

  175. JZ says:

    Comment 99, posted 6 days, 18 hours ago – Quote and reply
    I think Widmore and Ellie had a relationship on the Island. Ellie got pregnant on the island then left before she gave birth (would explain why Faraday didn’t get nosebleeds during the flashes). I think she was ordered to leave by Widmore to protect them from the the purge that happens.
    I think Ellie finds out after they left the island that Widmore was having an affair with another “outsider” and had another child (Penny). This might explain why Widmore knows where Ellie is in LA, but don’t have a relationship anymore (yes I know we don’t know when the last time they spoke but that’s why it’s a theory!)
    This would then lead to another theory of mine that Ellie (Ms. Hawking) may be the third party everyone is talking about (Ilana Bram & Co.). I know we see her working “with” Ben leading him to believe he has someone on his side “helping” him, but in fact maybe she’s “using” him to help truly protect the island.
    Did that make any sense? Does anyone have any thoughts? I’m ready to be shot down…for some reason I can’t get away from this idea that Widmore and Ellie had “relations” LOL….help!

    I posted this last week…i definitely think I’m on to something here. I’m interested to know who Penny’s mom is though. Maybe it is Ellie but maybe it’s not. Remember one of the ‘reasons” (may be true or not) that Ben mentioned to him when Widmore was kicked off the island was that “he had a child with an outsider”. Ellie wasn’t neccesarily considered an outsider, unless, continuing from my theory that, Ellie got pregnant with widmore’s kid (Faraday) ON the island and left before she gave birth…but since she left that maybe she’s now an outsider and got pregnant again with Widmore’s kid when he was constantly leaving the island which produced (Penny).

    Thoughts?

  176. Jimmy63 says:

    Is Eloise looking at her life like an reverse version of “Groundhog Day” tweak your actions a little in the present to change the future-past until you get the desired result?

  177. JZ says:

    [quote comment="332423"][quote comment="332241"]Just hoping for some quick help. I always read this but don’t submit stuff. . . .I always seem to be two steps behind in my theories. A bit off topic, but I know this is somewhere that could help. .and we are before the mass of post show comments. I forgot to PVR Lost tonight and I’m not home until after it airs . .it has RUINED my day!!!! Just wondering where the quickest way to get it would be, ABC.com doesn’t help me because I’m in Canada, and only you Americans can see it on there. Thanks in advance. . .and I’m a big fan of the theory that the last scene of Lost will be the same as the opening scene (Jack’s eye opening post crash). Keep up the great posts everyone, I’ll keep reading and applauding them.[/quote]

    I agree with the jack theory….
    and I forgot the page break……

    this is my new comment everything before is 475 from WHH

    So Yes….. I’m here becuase it’s my turn to say I told you so. ;-) HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

    I also said (as the novice Adapa1) the EVERY dies in the incident and that it was Daniels fault. I also said someone drops jughead and that is the incident. and what did daniel say tonight……..hahahhahahahah this is great!!!

    So if your still confused let me tell you all again the story of flight 815

    1. everyone from the future who dies incident has their consciounes sent to there future self with no memory(widmores words to daniel tonight)

    2.815 is pure coarse correction for all those that died in the incident.

    3. daniel didn’t know that he/815 survivors cause the incident becuase he died and was sent to his future self with no memory. his parents obviously know this.

    4. daniel is again wrong and it is their destiny to go back. Only so they can AGAIN all die just to go back again on 815. The only way to stop the incident/endgame is to kepp their stubborn non-believing asses on the island like they where supposed to.

    5. They should have listened to John (aka magnus/jocob). Who’s consciouness was Deliberatley sent back to make them stay.

    6. the #’s button…..IS a 108 loop that someone went back in time to to prevent the 815 crash

    7. dan said that they ARE the variables with free will.

    8. I AGAIN will bet anyone willing that the show will end(as stated before) by starting with jack waking up just like in the pilot, then showing us Desmond Willingly pressing the button with penny and charlie there, and the 815ers finally bowing to destiny …. by accepting their fate IS too stay on the island. And with John FINALLY convincing Jack to just believe when he has no memory of why.

    Please refute and debunk in any way. I just want you all to rememeber johns suicide note to jack. “I wish you would have believed” I believe it said. You guys’s theories on everything I will remain open minded to. I don’t care about the smoke monster or the statue because we won’t know the cool back story on RA, the black rock, and the island/lemuria/underworld til next season anyway.

    Some one please have my back on this!!!! reminds me of thinking MAcguyver might die…then realizing he can’t because the show is named after him. He couldn’t die then….and I can’t be wrong now. ;-)[/quote]

    *****************************
    I definitely feel MacGyver is on to something with this…make sense to me at least :0)

  178. RGS says:

    I tend to disagree with the theory that they are all caught in a loop. To the extent that there is an overlap, it is only ‘temporary’ (roughly from’74-77, throw in those other incidents while skipping). There will still be some kind of flash or something that gets the Losties back to their original time line so that they can participate on whatever level, in the impending war.

    It would make little sense for them to end the show with the plane landing in LA and them walking away without knowledge of what happened…as if it were a dream. IF it were to end in some kind of way like that, the main characters would all definitely have a recollection or at least someone like a Hurley. I seriously doubt it would end like that though.

    I disagree with you Adapa/Macguyver when you state it is their destiny to just stay on the island based on the outline that you present. That outline lacks a purpose to why they would need to stay on the island. Just to prevent themselves from dying on the island?

    From a storytelling perspective, Sun & Jin must reunite (I have nothing to back this theory, just my version of “common sense storytelling 101″). The 815ers have to go back to help Locke, Christian and whoever fight the 316ers. The Incident is not going to be as catastrophic as Dan alluded to, it can’t be by definition of WHH. To the extent something happens, it will probably be caused by the Losties, and then some how they will be flashed to their right time.

    The Purge will then happen years later.

    ComicCon film with Daniel and Chang I’m now thinking won’t be included as officially part of the show…they’ve got a lot of ‘splaining to do.

  179. Leslie says:

    [Was anybody else worried when Penny left Charlie with the nurse? Yes, I absolutely thought that Eloise was going to snatch him--possibly to force Desmond back to the Island. Do you think the scene had any more significance, other than having us find out Farady's parentage?

  180. Jimmy63 says:

    With Widmore lurking around the hospital Charlie is not safe.Does he snatch the kid to get Des to go back to the Island?

  181. PJSander says:

    I think Daniel has to survive, at least long enough to make the comic-con video.

    I think Daniel doesn’t stop the drilling and that the release of energy will be the flash (or purple sky event) that returns our LOSTies to their “present” time. Sawyer and Juliet will disappear out of thin air just before they are DHARMAnated.

    Here’s something that is niggling at me. Sun left Ji-Yeon at home with her mother. Both Claire and Kate have left Aaron. Penny left lilCharlie with a nurse. Michael left Walt. Maybe Hawking plays the Pied Piper and gathers up all these “abandoned children” and brings them to the island?

    My head is swimming.

    : ) P

  182. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332519"]With Widmore lurking around the hospital Charlie is not safe.Does he snatch the kid to get Des to go back to the Island?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    I pretty much said that in post 81, but I figure Hawking since she was standing there. :)

    Hammer
    Comment 81, posted 11 hours, 45 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Mr. $tuart wrote:

    Was anybody else worried when Penny left Charlie with the nurse?

    +++++++++++++++++++
    Oh good catch…maybe that’s how Hawking gets them back to the island….to be my original prediction of Des and Penny = Adam and Eve…remember, she told Des the island isn’t done with him yet.

  183. Leslie says:

    [quote comment="332268"][quote comment="332267"]Rita, I’ve kind of always thought this may be the case for RA too. We just assume he doesn’t age b/c we see him the same in every era but what if he just travels to those time periods – kind of how to Locke, it had only been a few days since he met Widmore as a kid but Widmore had aged 30 years.[/quote]

    I considered that about RA, but I don’t think so. If he were always from the future, there would NOT have been a time in the past when he didn’t know who Locke was.

    In thinking about Rita’s thought about Faraday though, I can see that as a possibility.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I am really liking this “Richard from the Future” idea. His mission might be to constantly jump back and forth through time in order to keep things happening as they should. With those pesky Darma folk coming around and messing with things that were just not supposed to be messed with! Just because he does not (immediately) recognize everyone, doesn’t negate this idea. Who knows how many centuries he has been at this–he is entitled to the occassional memory lapse! I also think it is possible that rather than not recognizing someone (Locke, Daniel) he may just be trying to figure out why the heck they are in that time and place, and also doesn’t want to tip his hand. Last night, when Daniel threatened him with a gun, and Richard asked “do we know each other”, I think he was just stalling for time, trying to get control of the situation. It also stood out to me that Richard told Eloise ” he wasn’t going to shoot me”–like he knew that as a fact. Anyway, loving this show and thoroughly enjoying this blog.

  184. Mia says:

    Dan’s current self (Dan from 2007) may die in 1977 but his past self (child Dan) is still alive and is probably on the island in 1977. He had to have been born by 1977 because his current self looks older than 30. Ellie will probably leave the island shortly after Dan being shot because it seems like Dan doesn’t remember the island so he’d have to be young when they left. And we know Widmore left many years after that so that’s how Dan never knew Widmore. Any thoughts?

  185. Mia says:

    Futhermore, child Dan will still grow up, go to Oxford, come back to the island , get shot if nothing happens to change it and so on… IF nothing happens to change it.

  186. Duke says:

    [quote comment="332327"]Anyone get a good look at the book Widmore picked up when he visited Dan?[/quote]
    ____________________________
    It was a copy of Wired magazine which I believe this month JJ Abrams was a guest editor.

  187. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332521"]I think Daniel has to survive, at least long enough to make the comic-con video.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    My only thought is on Dan making the video is that it seems possible that in his studies he may have TT several times and the video was from a different visit to the 70s. IF he actually already died.

  188. FrankS says:

    First off, what a brilliant episode! Love Faraday. I thought he had so many amazing lines but one especially caught my attention: when he was playing the piano, excellently, by the way, and wanted to continue to play but his mother said he had a mind for science and mathematics. Little Dan said “I can do both. I can make TIME.” To which mother replied something like “if only you could.”

    Also, Dan had a brilliant line when he said “I’ve studied relativity my entire life but I was always focused on the constants. Then i realized I was leaving out the variables…We are the variable, people.”

    Agree that leaving Charlie in the hospital with the other nurse was a big mistake.

    Agree that this entire 55 years is some sort of loop – 1954 – 2009.

    Still, too many questions unanswered and head is spinning trying to assimilate it all.

    Already watched the episode twice and planning to watch again. Interesting tidbit: local ABC station playing Lost reruns on Sat night/Sun morning just showed “confirmed dead” which flashed to Dan in the chair watching 815 wreckage.

  189. The Wrz says:

    Could Eloise know everything by reading Daniel’s journal? She doesn’t know what will happen to Des because it wasn’t in the journal

  190. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332531"] Little Dan said “I can do both. I can make TIME.” To which mother replied something like “if only you could.”
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yes! I forgot about that one.

    Another one I forgot about was Dan basically telling us HE was going to die when he said (paraphrasing) ‘this is our current selves, anyone one of us can die’…or something to that effect.

  191. Frank says:

    I think Dan was right on about the variable; that the future is not necessarily fated. However, he went about trying to change the past again; doh! We work in grooves, but we can always choose to jump out of those grooves in OUR present.

    I think an example of this might be Des. Ellie tries to get him not to marry Penny. He does. Des is also refusing to go back to the island. He seems to be going against what the players with “past/future knowledge” are thinking he’s “supposed” to do.

  192. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332535"]I think Dan was right on about the variable; that the future is not necessarily fated. However, he went about trying to change the past again; doh! We work in grooves, but we can always choose to jump out of those grooves in OUR present.

    I think an example of this might be Des. Ellie tries to get him not to marry Penny. He does. Des is also refusing to go back to the island. He seems to be going against what the players with “past/future knowledge” are thinking he’s “supposed” to do.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I agree…the FUTURE is not fated as far as free will is concerned. The PAST is the past, if you change it or try to…it gets course corrected….so far. I still think that they leading up to the characters finding a way to change WHH…Valenzetti equation lives on!!

  193. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="332510"]Comment 99, posted 6 days, 18 hours ago – Quote and reply
    I think Widmore and Ellie had a relationship on the Island. Ellie got pregnant on the island then left before she gave birth (would explain why Faraday didn’t get nosebleeds during the flashes). I think she was ordered to leave by Widmore to protect them from the the purge that happens.
    I think Ellie finds out after they left the island that Widmore was having an affair with another “outsider” and had another child (Penny). This might explain why Widmore knows where Ellie is in LA, but don’t have a relationship anymore (yes I know we don’t know when the last time they spoke but that’s why it’s a theory!)
    This would then lead to another theory of mine that Ellie (Ms. Hawking) may be the third party everyone is talking about (Ilana Bram & Co.). I know we see her working “with” Ben leading him to believe he has someone on his side “helping” him, but in fact maybe she’s “using” him to help truly protect the island.
    Did that make any sense? Does anyone have any thoughts? I’m ready to be shot down…for some reason I can’t get away from this idea that Widmore and Ellie had “relations” LOL….help!

    I posted this last week…i definitely think I’m on to something here. I’m interested to know who Penny’s mom is though. Maybe it is Ellie but maybe it’s not. Remember one of the ‘reasons” (may be true or not) that Ben mentioned to him when Widmore was kicked off the island was that “he had a child with an outsider”. Ellie wasn’t neccesarily considered an outsider, unless, continuing from my theory that, Ellie got pregnant with widmore’s kid (Faraday) ON the island and left before she gave birth…but since she left that maybe she’s now an outsider and got pregnant again with Widmore’s kid when he was constantly leaving the island which produced (Penny).

    Thoughts?[/quote]
    **************
    i am placing my bets on eloise being penny’s mom as well. maybe she had Dan on island but KNEW they had to get off island before the event Dan was forshadowing…once she left she could not return…so widmore was hooking up with her off island and they have penny. The reason I think she is her mom is when she visits her in the hospital she calls her Penelope…just seems like something a mom would do…using the whole name not nickname.
    Maybe Widmore and Ellie had to separate once he was exiled to protect the children. I originally thought Pen and Dan were twins but leaning more to just bro and sis.
    -Mis

  194. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332525"] It also stood out to me that Richard told Eloise ” he wasn’t going to shoot me”–like he knew that as a fact. quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Good thought. I’m not sure if he knew it for fact or if he believed Dan when he said ‘all I want is to talk to Ellie’.

    What stood out to me was RA asked why she shot him and she didn’t seem to know WHY, just that she sort of ‘had’ to.

  195. Brennivin says:

    What if Eloise sent Jack back to save Daniel after she shot him?

    Daniel might know this isn’t part of the original timeline which is why Jack and the others “don’t belong there”… which would mean Eloise is trying to change the timeline which might also explain why now she doesn’t know what is going to happen next – because she has introduced new players to an old timeline. Thoughts?

    Another line that caught me but nobody seems to be discussing was when Daniel told Chang that Miles was his son – to make sure that Chang would “do what he is supposed to do”, which I’m convinced is save Miles’ life.

    Remember, even if Daniel dies, Miles can still talk to him!

  196. Miss lost says:

    Does anyone else think RA always looks confused? I do not think he is the person who is all knowing, but there is something special about him yet to be revealed. It seemed to me that Ellie’s primary purpose was to protect RA. He is special to the island. I am not convinced that young Ellie knew that was her kid. I am more convinced that older Eloise knew her son had to go back to the island to be sacrificed as did Widmore and maybe she knew that her young self would do anything to protect the island and the others…
    -mis

  197. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332513"][quote comment="332423"][quote comment="332241"]I definitely feel MacGyver is on to something with this…make sense to me at least :0)[/quote]
    =======
    Thanks JZ!!!
    [quote comment="332516"]I tend to disagree with the theory that they are all caught in a loop. To the extent that there is an overlap, it is only ‘temporary’ (roughly from’74-77, throw in those other incidents while skipping). There will still be some kind of flash or something that gets the Losties back to their original time line so that they can participate on whatever level, in the impending war.

    It would make little sense for them to end the show with the plane landing in LA and them walking away without knowledge of what happened…as if it were a dream. IF it were to end in some kind of way like that, the main characters would all definitely have a recollection or at least someone like a Hurley. I seriously doubt it would end like that though.

    I disagree with you Adapa/Macguyver when you state it is their destiny to just stay on the island based on the outline that you present. That outline lacks a purpose to why they would need to stay on the island. Just to prevent themselves from dying on the island?

    From a storytelling perspective, Sun & Jin must reunite (I have nothing to back this theory, just my version of “common sense storytelling 101″). The 815ers have to go back to help Locke, Christian and whoever fight the 316ers. The Incident is not going to be as catastrophic as Dan alluded to, it can’t be by definition of WHH. To the extent something happens, it will probably be caused by the Losties, and then some how they will be flashed to their right time.

    The Purge will then happen years later.

    ComicCon film with Daniel and Chang I’m now thinking won’t be included as officially part of the show…they’ve got a lot of ‘splaining to do.[/quote]
    *******

    I hear you on my lazy theory and I’ve made it my mission today to finally edit the whole thing and post in theories. IMO the 815ers will decide to stay in the end for one simple reason. either they all stay…..or EVERYONE on the planet dies. I mean that Is what the Valenzetti’s equation predicted and the whole TRUE reason dharma was there anyways.

    I must disagree and say that will will see that daniel/chang video air before the final season. I don’t fopllow your logic there. I thought this last episode pretty much set the stage perfectly for that video. Besides who cares if they air it, we still know its part of the plot…everything else they revealed at comic con in the past was.

  198. code says:

    [quote comment="332539"]What if Eloise sent Jack back to save Daniel after she shot him?

    Daniel might know this isn’t part of the original timeline which is why Jack and the others “don’t belong there”… which would mean Eloise is trying to change the timeline which might also explain why now she doesn’t know what is going to happen next – because she has introduced new players to an old timeline. Thoughts?

    Another line that caught me but nobody seems to be discussing was when Daniel told Chang that Miles was his son – to make sure that Chang would “do what he is supposed to do”, which I’m convinced is save Miles’ life.

    Remember, even if Daniel dies, Miles can still talk to him![/quote]

    Dude, great insights!

  199. JZ says:

    [quote comment="332546"][quote comment="332539"]What if Eloise sent Jack back to save Daniel after she shot him?

    Daniel might know this isn’t part of the original timeline which is why Jack and the others “don’t belong there”… which would mean Eloise is trying to change the timeline which might also explain why now she doesn’t know what is going to happen next – because she has introduced new players to an old timeline. Thoughts?

    Another line that caught me but nobody seems to be discussing was when Daniel told Chang that Miles was his son – to make sure that Chang would “do what he is supposed to do”, which I’m convinced is save Miles’ life.

    Remember, even if Daniel dies, Miles can still talk to him![/quote]

    Dude, great insights![/quote]
    ************

    I like this too!

  200. Dan-o says:

    Couple of random thoughts:

    1) The name Jacob is often shortened to Jack. The other “ethereal” persons we’ve seen in the cabin are Jack’s father and half-sister. Theory – Jack dies in the past and the island resurects him and he becomes Jacob (Name adjustment so Ben doesn’t know it’s him)
    2) We still don’t know how Paik (Sun’s father) is attached to the island. Suspect more to come on this.
    3) Daniel could have been concieved on the island, thus not the reason for Widmore being booted off. Maybe he had an affair while off island on “business” purposes, which begat Penny. Hence the reason for the seperation of Widmore and Hawkings. I’m open to thoughts on who Penny’s mom could be.
    4) Theory – The failsafe key that Desmond activated when they destroyed the computer preventing “saving the world” was Jughead. Which then destroyed the magnetic anomoly, as Daniel wanted to do before his mom iced him.

  201. maybe says:

    So Faraday wanted to blowup a hydrogen bomb, essentially wiping out everyone on the island when he truly believed that “if you die, you die” in their current state!! Yet his explanation to Jack was that by doing so, he’ll change the course of the future and avert the 815 crash.

    Doesn’t this strike anyone as being way too much of a paradox? Was Daniel simply planning a suicide mission?

    Ben wipes out Dharma, Daniel wipes out the whole island….

  202. Pastoris says:

    [quote comment="332547"][quote comment="332546"][quote comment="332539"]What if Eloise sent Jack back to save Daniel after she shot him?

    Daniel might know this isn’t part of the original timeline which is why Jack and the others “don’t belong there”… which would mean Eloise is trying to change the timeline which might also explain why now she doesn’t know what is going to happen next – because she has introduced new players to an old timeline. Thoughts?

    Another line that caught me but nobody seems to be discussing was when Daniel told Chang that Miles was his son – to make sure that Chang would “do what he is supposed to do”, which I’m convinced is save Miles’ life.

    Remember, even if Daniel dies, Miles can still talk to him![/quote]

    Dude, great insights![/quote]
    ************

    I like this too![/quote]

    make sense! thanks for sharing!

  203. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="332539"]What if Eloise sent Jack back to save Daniel after she shot him?

    Daniel might know this isn’t part of the original timeline which is why Jack and the others “don’t belong there”… which would mean Eloise is trying to change the timeline which might also explain why now she doesn’t know what is going to happen next – because she has introduced new players to an old timeline. Thoughts?
    [/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Very plausible. If this is true, then she is the one trying to change WHH whilst preaching destiny can’t be changed…hmmmm.

  204. Hammer says:

    Locke has gotten LOST in all of this. How is it that since season 1, he has ‘known’ that the island is his destiny and he is supposed to be there (ala Hawking) but only ‘knows’ this by instinct. Hawking really knows what is going on…Locke just senses it…what up?

  205. PK says:

    desmonds little boy named charlie is the charlie we all know from oceanic flight 815?

  206. Mrs.Awesome says:

    OMGGGGGG …u guys that episode brought us back to the lost we know and love!!!!!!!!!

    I was totally with the idea that desmond was shot , and this is why Ben said “say sorry to desmond for me.
    and I think peeny was stupid for leaving adorable little charlie with the nurse when she knows there was a mad man trying to kill them.

    I totally cried when Faraday got shot by his mother. It was almost like faraday took the role of jesus and sacraficed his life for many because if he remember alot of things from the past didnt he remember he was going to get shot abd it was totaly ironic that her previously told jack anyone could die and also another ironic thing we saw last night where the words in df’s diary that his mother gave him saying ‘no mater what happens remember i will always love you Woah and she totally walked out the resturant very upset.

    UMM.JULIETe had a total attitude problem . She was wearing a red shirt so she might be next or maybe her pregrant and the attitudes due to that and the red shirt is for her dead baby.

    I also have the theory like everyonelse that either jack or kates also about to kick the bucket because when DF told Jack anyone could die a weird staring thing went down with jack and kate like he might sacarifice his life for her if he had to or something because he know the state his father is in and maybe he recognizes his purpose by joining his father.

    well thats all i have folks i just looooooved that episode and i kinda dont want them to prevent the island crash from happening because that means they would have never met or just take glances at each other on 815 pertty SaD ehh..

  207. marco says:

    [quote comment="332496"]WHat I don’t understand is, how do we know that Eloise KNEW she was going to shoot her son? After reading comments, it seems everyone is talking about it, but from my point of view she didn’t know. Just because Dan says that in his final breaths doesn’t really tell us that she knew t6he whole time. OR am I missing something? Please point me in the right direction, as far as her saying she knew. In my point of view, when she was talking to Charles she might have been about to say something else besides that he was going to die. I dont know I am just confused:)[/quote]

    Cause when she’s talking to Whidmore outside the hospital she get’s emotional about how she’s sacrificing more than him. This leads me to believe she does know he’ll die.

  208. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332557"]desmonds little boy named charlie is the charlie we all know from oceanic flight 815?[/quote]

    We’ve already seen Charlie Pace’s childhood, so I kind of doubt it. But this is LOST so who knows?

    Favorite line for me:

    KATE: This is a mistake. He’s talking about erasing everything that’s ever happened to us, Jack. It’s insane.

    JACK: We disappeared off a plane in mid-air and ended up in 1977. I’m getting kinda used to insane.

    : ) P

  209. Mrs.Awesome says:

    [quote comment="332539"]What if Eloise sent Jack back to save Daniel after she shot him?

    Daniel might know this isn’t part of the original timeline which is why Jack and the others “don’t belong there”… which would mean Eloise is trying to change the timeline which might also explain why now she doesn’t know what is going to happen next – because she has introduced new players to an old timeline. Thoughts?

    Another line that caught me but nobody seems to be discussing was when Daniel told Chang that Miles was his son – to make sure that Chang would “do what he is supposed to do”, which I’m convinced is save Miles’ life.

    Remember, even if Daniel dies, Miles can still talk to him![/quote]

    OMG yoooo that theory is maddd dope I love it and its totally believeable thanks for that now i could sleep bettter lol thanks again

  210. steve says:

    [quote comment="332540"]Does anyone else think RA always looks confused? I do not think he is the person who is all knowing, but there is something special about him yet to be revealed. It seemed to me that Ellie’s primary purpose was to protect RA. He is special to the island. I am not convinced that young Ellie knew that was her kid. I am more convinced that older Eloise knew her son had to go back to the island to be sacrificed as did Widmore and maybe she knew that her young self would do anything to protect the island and the others…
    -mis[/quote]
    ______________________________

    I couldn’t help but think that she had to send Dan back to the island so he could tell them how to secure the jughead in 1954. if he had’t told them to bury it, and it went off/ killed all of the Others, then Dan would not have been born…

  211. FrankS says:

    One thing about the idea that Eloise sent Jack back to save Daniel: when they all met at the Lamppost, Eloise said to Jack something like he knows why he needs to go back, for him (alluding to his father). I think that’s why Jack’s back – not to save DF. though i hope that DF survives.

    And after reading other great comments, one thing i forgot to ask: why does detonating a hydrogen bomb destroy the electromagnetic energy that will be release when DI drills by Swan?

  212. steve says:

    [quote comment="332561"][quote comment="332557"]desmonds little boy named charlie is the charlie we all know from oceanic flight 815?[/quote]

    We’ve already seen Charlie Pace’s childhood, so I kind of doubt it. But this is LOST so who knows?

    Favorite line for me:

    KATE: This is a mistake. He’s talking about erasing everything that’s ever happened to us, Jack. It’s insane.

    JACK: We disappeared off a plane in mid-air and ended up in 1977. I’m getting kinda used to insane.

    : ) P[/quote]

    _______________________________

    It is entirely possible that it is not the first time Daniel has tried to erase everything that has happened to them.

    It also appears that Jack has disappeared off a plane in mid-air twice now. He ends up on his back in the bamboo grove after both planes arrive at the island. We don’t know who else just appears on the island at the crash scene.
    It may not be relevant to the story, but we still don’t know if everyone from the 815 crash was accounted for. Many were assumed dead if they were not at the beach.

    –> Daniel could have a moving gun shot wound (It would not be the first time) It seams that Chang will start to believe him after the swan incident that was about 4 hours away.

    — Love the idea that Eloise sends Jack back to help Daniel.

  213. steve says:

    Just thinking out load here, and I was wondering if Eloise wrote on more then the first page of Daniels Journal.

  214. Dan-o says:

    ======
    And after reading other great comments, one thing i forgot to ask: why does detonating a hydrogen bomb destroy the electromagnetic energy that will be release when DI drills by Swan?[/quote]
    ======

    When a bomb like that goes off, it first produces an EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse). I’m not a scientist, but maybe a positive plus to counteract the anomolies negetive EM energy.

  215. DocH says:

    Daniel is sent to the island to ultimately be shot, in addition to all he has done on the island AND in Ann Arbor from 74-77.

    After infiltrating DHARMA and learning all of their whacky-science, he returned to warn Chang, like he was supposed to, and to take a bullet, like he was supposed to. Now, like he is supposed to, he will be taken to the Temple where he will be healed and become part of the indigenious native peoples.

    Daniel’s parents are pure-blooded islanders. His destiny is to return and become a semi-mortal leader like Richard. His path in life to this point is to gain all of the super-advanced math and science skills he can, along with the secrets he learned at Ann Arbor. His leadership role among the hostiles will be to counter anything the real-world can throw at them and to return the island to its original stable, and hidden state.

  216. PeggyS says:

    1. Can anyone explain why Faraday’s mother Eloise Hawking and supposed father Charles Whidmore have different last names? Was Faraday really adopted by them on the island?
    2. Locke’s birth mother and Ben’s birth mother were both named was Emily. They are brothers? Is Richard Alpert Locke’s father? Remember he looked at him through the nursery window at the hospital…

  217. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332569"]Just thinking out load here, and I was wondering if Eloise wrote on more then the first page of Daniels Journal.[/quote]

    Good thought. I sort of questioned if it was like Harry Potter’s Maurader’s map and changed as circumstances changed. Think that would be a little too far off the map though. (Pun fully intended.)

    : ) P

  218. Frank says:

    [quote comment="332571"]Daniel is sent to the island to ultimately be shot, in addition to all he has done on the island AND in Ann Arbor from 74-77.

    After infiltrating DHARMA and learning all of their whacky-science, he returned to warn Chang, like he was supposed to, and to take a bullet, like he was supposed to. Now, like he is supposed to, he will be taken to the Temple where he will be healed and become part of the indigenious native peoples.

    Daniel’s parents are pure-blooded islanders. His destiny is to return and become a semi-mortal leader like Richard. His path in life to this point is to gain all of the super-advanced math and science skills he can, along with the secrets he learned at Ann Arbor. His leadership role among the hostiles will be to counter anything the real-world can throw at them and to return the island to its original stable, and hidden state.[/quote]

    Nice theory!

  219. steve says:

    [quote comment="332549"]So Faraday wanted to blowup a hydrogen bomb, essentially wiping out everyone on the island when he truly believed that “if you die, you die” in their current state!! Yet his explanation to Jack was that by doing so, he’ll change the course of the future and avert the 815 crash.

    Doesn’t this strike anyone as being way too much of a paradox? Was Daniel simply planning a suicide mission?

    Ben wipes out Dharma, Daniel wipes out the whole island….[/quote]

    _______________

    The detonation of Jughead seamed to be literally overkill. If the catastrophic events were to occur in 4 hours, why didn’t Daniel simply go into the camp telling the Other’s that Dharma was building the swan station in their territory, and about to unleash a massive electro-magnetic event. Let Ellie, Richard, and the Other’s deal with the swan and stop the digging.

  220. JZ says:

    [quote comment="332572"]1. Can anyone explain why Faraday’s mother Eloise Hawking and supposed father Charles Whidmore have different last names? Was Faraday really adopted by them on the island?
    2. Locke’s birth mother and Ben’s birth mother were both named was Emily. They are brothers? Is Richard Alpert Locke’s father? Remember he looked at him through the nursery window at the hospital…[/quote]
    *********
    1) I thought about the last names myself and hopefully we’ll receive some insight about why they all have idfferent last names

    2)The reason why Alpert was at the hospital when he was born is because Locke told him when he TT backed to 1954 and said “In 3 years I will be born, go to (wherever he was born), and I will be there” He says this because Alpert doesn’t recoginize him…Locke gives the compass that Alpert gives Locke when Locke gets shot by Ethan during the TT near Mr. Eko’s Brother (Yemi’s) plane.

    A little wordy…follow?

  221. steve says:

    [quote comment="332573"][quote comment="332569"]Just thinking out load here, and I was wondering if Eloise wrote on more then the first page of Daniels Journal.[/quote]

    Good thought. I sort of questioned if it was like Harry Potter’s Maurader’s map and changed as circumstances changed. Think that would be a little too far off the map though. (Pun fully intended.)

    : ) P[/quote]

    _______________________

    I thought of this because after Daniel tells Desmond to go to oxford, Daniel goes to his journal and finds the notation that Desmond is his constant. I had the impression that this note was not in the journal before he came to the island, and he knew to go to the journal to find that change.

  222. Dave says:

    [quote comment="332241"]…Just wondering where the quickest way to get it would be, ABC.com doesn’t help me because I’m in Canada, and only you Americans can see it on there. Thanks in advance. . ..[/quote]

    Canada gives access through the CTV network online at: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/show/CTVShows/20040922/Lost-special/20090129/

  223. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332576"]The detonation of Jughead seamed to be literally overkill. If the catastrophic events were to occur in 4 hours, why didn’t Daniel simply go into the camp telling the Other’s that Dharma was building the swan station in their territory, and about to unleash a massive electro-magnetic event. Let Ellie, Richard, and the Other’s deal with the swan and stop the digging.[/quote]

    I thought that was what Daniel was trying to do last night. Wasn’t it? You know, until darling mummy blasted him?

    : ) P

  224. flgrl says:

    [quote comment="332531"]First off, what a brilliant episode! Love Faraday. I thought he had so many amazing lines but one especially caught my attention: when he was playing the piano, excellently, by the way, and wanted to continue to play but his mother said he had a mind for science and mathematics. Little Dan said “I can do both. I can make TIME.” To which mother replied something like “if only you could.”

    *******************
    To me it seemed like the emphasis was on “make” instead of “time”. As in I can MAKE time, as in he’s someone who can manipulate time to do what he wants it do to. It did stand out to me too though.

  225. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332567"][quote comment="332561"][quote comment="332557"]
    Daniel could have a moving gun shot wound (It would not be the first time) It seams that Chang will start to believe him after the swan incident that was about 4 hours away.

  226. maybe says:

    His intent was to blow the bomb rather than to try and convince or coerce the people digging the swan to stop! No matter what he could have done to warn people many if not most people on that island would have died!!!

    He cared about Charlotte enough to have that little speach with her, however he must have also known that she would get off no matter what drastic events his intervention would have.

    I don’t believe that Daniel is gone and as good as this episode was, it leaves too many holes to fill.

  227. MacGyver says:

    Steve, I meant to end that last comment with ……Hilarious!!!!!

  228. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332583"]
    To me it seemed like the emphasis was on “make” instead of “time”. As in I can MAKE time, as in he’s someone who can manipulate time to do what he wants it do to. It did stand out to me too though.[/quote]

    I agree. I even said that he needed to have a conversation with Hermione Grainger!

    : ) P

  229. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="332571"]Daniel is sent to the island to ultimately be shot, in addition to all he has done on the island AND in Ann Arbor from 74-77.

    After infiltrating DHARMA and learning all of their whacky-science, he returned to warn Chang, like he was supposed to, and to take a bullet, like he was supposed to. Now, like he is supposed to, he will be taken to the Temple where he will be healed and become part of the indigenious native peoples.

    Daniel’s parents are pure-blooded islanders. His destiny is to return and become a semi-mortal leader like Richard. His path in life to this point is to gain all of the super-advanced math and science skills he can, along with the secrets he learned at Ann Arbor. His leadership role among the hostiles will be to counter anything the real-world can throw at them and to return the island to its original stable, and hidden state.[/quote]
    ****************
    If his mum is Ellie and dad is Widmore, wouldn’t he already be an indigenous person? He should be one of them by birth?
    -miss

  230. RGS says:

    Overall I did love this episode, what I didn’t like was there was nothing to suggest that Daniel should be madly in love, or even in love with Charlotte. I mean he was dating Teresa and made her a vegetable. Then he has memory problems to the point where he needs a caretaker up until he gets to the island. Only when he returns to the island does he get healed, so how could he develop these deep feelings for Charlotte when he probably kept forgetting about her anyway. Good ole Dan, love ‘em and leave ‘em (dead or brain dead).

  231. Lost in the south says:

    Hi there – reader for 2 seasons. LOVE the comments.

    I, for one, hope Faraday isn’t dead – any of the reasons mentioned already would work for me: Jack’s there to save him, the Island works it’s magic, etc.

    One thing that I’m wondering about: some have argued that Faraday can’t be dead because he hasn’t made the video with Chang yet. Isn’t it possible that if Faraday dies before the video is made, that the video ceases to exist?

    Still trying to get a handle on the time travel!

  232. Chuck says:

    First time here. Has anyone discussed a possible time loop scenario a la “Groundhog Day” where the Losties get to keep trying to make the right choices to break up the cycle?

  233. Steve says:

    [quote comment="332580"][quote comment="332576"]The detonation of Jughead seamed to be literally overkill. If the catastrophic events were to occur in 4 hours, why didn’t Daniel simply go into the camp telling the Other’s that Dharma was building the swan station in their territory, and about to unleash a massive electro-magnetic event. Let Ellie, Richard, and the Other’s deal with the swan and stop the digging.[/quote]

    I thought that was what Daniel was trying to do last night. Wasn’t it? You know, until darling mummy blasted him?

    : ) P[/quote]

    I was wondering why he felt he needed a gun to give mommy the information. He went in and got in RA’s face asking him about the location of the bomb. I didn’t hear him try to tell them what Dharma was doing in violation of the truce. Just thought that information would have bought him the time he needed to explain.

  234. Steve says:

    [quote comment="332605"]First time here. Has anyone discussed a possible time loop scenario a la “Groundhog Day” where the Losties get to keep trying to make the right choices to break up the cycle?[/quote]
    ______________
    Check out this site, or ask Adapa1/McGuyver

    http://www.timelooptheory.com/

  235. Flint says:

    -I thought the Daniel would do the very same, warn the others of the building of the Swan Station and the impending disaster. They would have had a good reason to believe him since the nuke incident years earlier, in which he was there and then gone and he had not aged much since then.
    -I hope that Jack’s character gets a little more interesting, since he got on the island he has done nothing except for some recent gunplay.
    -I felt bad for Sawyer, playing house had to end soon I guess.
    -I don’t read too may of these blogs but when I do Jacob seems to pop up and ideas of whom he is. I used to think that Jack’s Father was Jacob, until last season. He is the tool in which Jacob communicates, Jacob is the Island itself.
    - Jack’s Father is the smoke monster (like Bens dead Daughter in the cave). Hence I believe that Locke is still dead (“Dead Is Dead”), the smoke monster has taken his identity like he took Christian’s and Ben’s Daughter

  236. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332604"]I was wondering why he felt [Daniel] needed a gun to give mommy the information. He went in and got in RA’s face asking him about the location of the bomb. I didn’t hear him try to tell them what Dharma was doing in violation of the truce. Just thought that information would have bought him the time he needed to explain.[/quote]

    I agree. In my opinion, it was out of character for Daniel to even WANT to take a gun, let alone ask for one.

    : ) P

  237. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="332609"]-I thought the Daniel would do the very same, warn the others of the building of the Swan Station and the impending disaster. They would have had a good reason to believe him since the nuke incident years earlier, in which he was there and then gone and he had not aged much since then.
    -I hope that Jack’s character gets a little more interesting, since he got on the island he has done nothing except for some recent gunplay.
    -I felt bad for Sawyer, playing house had to end soon I guess.
    -I don’t read too may of these blogs but when I do Jacob seems to pop up and ideas of whom he is. I used to think that Jack’s Father was Jacob, until last season. He is the tool in which Jacob communicates, Jacob is the Island itself.
    - Jack’s Father is the smoke monster (like Bens dead Daughter in the cave). Hence I believe that Locke is still dead (“Dead Is Dead”), the smoke monster has taken his identity like he took Christian’s and Ben’s Daughter[/quote]
    ******************
    I also think Jacob is the island. I haven’t figured out why he/it has called all of the characters to the island especially Locke…but Locke was at peace from the moment the plane crashed…Locke is home. Locke has not always knew or understood his purpose, but i do think he is once again at peace this season. Can’t wait to see how present day losties meet up with 1970′s losties…lots of good lost yet to come!
    -miss

  238. Niki says:

    Usually just read and never comment and enjoy everyone’s comments very much, but did anyone notice Eloise telling Penny that she thought it was her son’s fault that Des got shot? Maybe because it appears at that present time that Dan hasn’t been successful at certain tasks? Perhaps with causing a chain of events that would stop Ben from doing certain things? I guess I mean if he were successful at something then there would be no Ben to have shot Des.

    And although by certain things Eloise has said about Ben you can tell that she knows him and doesn’t care much for him but she still gives him advice and helps him some. Strange to me since she obviously is also in with Widmore.

    Just some vague observations but any thoughts?

  239. Niki says:

    I was wondering why he felt [Daniel] needed a gun to give mommy the information. He went in and got in RA’s face asking him about the location of the bomb. I didn’t hear him try to tell them what Dharma was doing in violation of the truce. Just thought that information would have bought him the time he needed to explain.

    I agree. In my opinion, it was out of character for Daniel to even WANT to take a gun, let alone ask for one.

    I didn’t find that strange at all. I’m thinking that he must have realized in the “Jughead” episode that Ellie was his mother. And of course she didn’t realize he was her son then, so why would she at that time. She and the rest of the Others were well armed and held a guns on him the whole time.

  240. Jimmy63 says:

    Daniel felt the need for a gun because he has played this out before. Perhaps these events are detailed in his journal. When he and Miles arrive at the Orchid to meet with Dr. Chang miles says to DF “Are we waiting for something” DF is looking in the journal as soon as Chang arrives DF says “Right on time” DF has been here before

  241. Jimmy63 says:

    One other oberservation on the flaws of the DI and eventual demise. Why in the world would anyone give the brand new maintenance guy (Jack) a key to a gun locker that makes no sense

  242. Tim says:

    Radzinshi “committed suicide” After getting see more of Radzinski, I am convinced that Inman just got fed up and wacked him

    *I’m thinking that Radzinski did not kill himself at all. The magnet brought a filling through his skull just like they guy that appeared like he was shot a few episodes ago. Maybe Radzinski failed to push the button one day.

  243. DocH says:

    [quote comment="332626"]
    In my opinion, it was out of character for Daniel to even WANT to take a gun, let alone ask for one.
    [/quote]
    You are my new ‘theory hero’. They say there is no wasted dialogue in the show. Daniel wanting a beginner pistol begs the fact that he fully intended to walk into the armed camp – and get shot. Dead, or soon dead, he intended to fulfill his short-term destiny. If he is dead, he may well join the ranks of the walking dead… Christian, Locke, (Claire?), et al. Maybe he has more influence (purpose) with Jacob as an island vision, not a jibbering physicist.

  244. Steve says:

    [quote comment="332633"]One other oberservation on the flaws of the DI and eventual demise. Why in the world would anyone give the brand new maintenance guy (Jack) a key to a gun locker that makes no sense[/quote]

    ______________________________

    The same reason they give the janitors keys to the jail cell… Go figure! Maybe Roger Linus had it right and they really are idiots.

  245. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332614"]I agree. In my opinion, it was out of character for Daniel to even WANT to take a gun, let alone ask for one.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="332645"]
    You are my new ‘theory hero’. They say there is no wasted dialogue in the show. Daniel wanting a beginner pistol begs the fact that he fully intended to walk into the armed camp – and get shot. Dead, or soon dead, he intended to fulfill his short-term destiny. If he is dead, he may well join the ranks of the walking dead… Christian, Locke, (Claire?), et al. Maybe he has more influence (purpose) with Jacob as an island vision, not a jibbering physicist.[/quote]

    Thanks, DocH. *g*

    [quote comment="332633"]One other oberservation on the flaws of the DI and eventual demise. Why in the world would anyone give the brand new maintenance guy (Jack) a key to a gun locker that makes no sense[/quote]

    The way I saw it was that, to the DI, Jack, Kate and Hurley showed up on the sub, with paperwork (manufactured by Juliet). The DI would have no reason to believe that the newest recruits were not fully vetted. I don’t have a problem with Jack getting keys to everything. I do have issue with the fact that the top girl in the motorpool is suddenly delivering babies no one asks any questions!

    : ) P

  246. Ament20 says:

    The episode ended the same way young Ben fell in an earlier episode. For the variable, Daniel specifically says to Jack and Kate that “people” are the variable. So Dan gets shot by mommy with a Doc nearby sent by future mommy coincidence? Now we know Widmore and Eloise are in cahoots but does Widmore know she sent them back.

    Unrealted to This episode -
    Anyone think it will ever be answered on Walt’s special ability in making things happen through his thoughts (bird flying into window when doing his homework on that bird, throwing knife perfect target on his second try when Locke told him to “want it to happen”, and reading Hurley’s comic with the polar bear and then Walt’s attacked by one) and his relationship to the island and why the Others wanted him. He cameo’d every season it can’t be a dead issue.

  247. LostinKy says:

    What if little charlie is somehow, the charlie we already know?

  248. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332653"][quote comment="332614"][/quote]
    [quote comment="332645"]
    [/quote]
    [quote comment="332633"] [/quote]

    The way I saw it was that, to the DI, Jack, Kate and Hurley showed up on the sub, with paperwork (manufactured by Juliet). The DI would have no reason to believe that the newest recruits were not fully vetted. I don’t have a problem with Jack getting keys to everything. I do have issue with the fact that the top girl in the motorpool is suddenly delivering babies no one asks any questions!

    : ) P[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    I agree that Dharma would have expected the new recruits to have been fully vetted – no cause for suspicion from them. Give them the keys. As for Juliet (motor-pool girl) delivering babies, Horace KNOWS that group was never vetted – they just showed up one day claiming to be ship-wreak victims. It wouldn’t be a big stretch (OK, a little one maybe) that they had skills that weren’t known. Now if JACK had agreed to save Ben, THAT might be a problem!

  249. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332645"][quote comment="332626"]
    [/quote]
    They say there is no wasted dialogue in the show. [/quote]

    _________________________________________
    Yes, no wasted dialog. So what about “this nurse will watch your son for you…”? I say that the first nurse did not KNOW the second nurse – or she would have said “Susan will watch your son” or “this nurse Nancy will watch your son”. Just “THIS NURSE”?? Who is she? I suspect some drama on that front.

  250. Juice says:

    Long time reader but first time posting! I wonder if someone has a theory regarding one of the many questions I have!

    Faraday warned Chang to get everyone off the island. He told Miles that he had to say that so that Chang would do what he was supposed to do. We know that Chang does do this because Miles and his mother do get off the island, as does Charlotte. So what I’m struggling with is – in the real 1977 (when miles was only 3 months old) who told Chang back then to have ppl evacuated? In the epi we watched on Wednesday, Faraday is telling this to Chang in the new 1977 (their present) but he wasn’t course correcting because it is something that happened anyway. Does this make sense to anyone or am I completely Lost ? :)

  251. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332625"]Usually just read and never comment and enjoy everyone’s comments very much, but did anyone notice Eloise telling Penny that she thought it was her son’s fault that Des got shot? Maybe because it appears at that present time that Dan hasn’t been successful at certain tasks? Perhaps with causing a chain of events that would stop Ben from doing certain things? I guess I mean if he were successful at something then there would be no Ben to have shot Des.

    And although by certain things Eloise has said about Ben you can tell that she knows him and doesn’t care much for him but she still gives him advice and helps him some. Strange to me since she obviously is also in with Widmore.

    Just some vague observations but any thoughts?[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    I’m a little puzzled by Eloise. Earlier, she seemed sort of motherly, to everyone. This week, she seemed cold and uncaring in a way – towards Daniel. He asked her if she would be proud of him if he went to the island, like this is something he has been seeking and never finding all his life. Trying and failing to please her.
    It feels like ALL the characters are doing what they are doing, striving for some greater good. Making personal sacrifices, believing that by doing so, a greater purpose will be achieved – like killing Locke (Ben) was accomplishing something the island needed. Eloise and Widmore both seem to understand that Daniel going to the island (and dying) is a sacrifice they MUST make in order to achieve something greater. Dan himself even seems to believe this. Maybe what they know is that Daniel is Jacob?

  252. Twitchy Fan says:

    [quote comment="332665"]What if little charlie is somehow, the charlie we already know?[/quote]
    Ihave always questioned why Penny and Des would name their son Charlie. Isn’t that the same as Charles, as in Widmore?, who they both dispise? The real reason for the name could be that it is “our Charlei”.

  253. Flint says:

    He was named after Charlie the Rock Star who became friends with Desmond and it was Desmond who winessed his death on the Pearl Station. Also Desmond was willing to take his place on the raft until Charlie bonked him with the paddle.

  254. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332665"]What if little charlie is somehow, the charlie we already know?[/quote]

    See post 208.

    [quote comment="332699"]Ihave always questioned why Penny and Des would name their son Charlie. Isn’t that the same as Charles, as in Widmore?, who they both dispise? The real reason for the name could be that it is “our Charlei”.[/quote]

    Well Charlie Pace saved Desmond’s life – that’s a good reason to name someone.

    : ) P

  255. shellonius funk says:

    [quote comment="332326"][quote comment="332320"]okay does anyone think that the end of this show will have flight 815 land in L.A. and that will be it…..none of it will have really ever happened?[/quote]

    If it is, there will be BIG trouble in Nashville.

    : ) P[/quote]

    PJ….I’m in Nashville too! cheers from hillsboro village.

  256. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332707"]PJ….I’m in Nashville too! cheers from hillsboro village.[/quote]

    Hi SF! Actually, I am not in Nashville, but there is a chance I will be at the end of May, 2010.

    : ) P

  257. RGS says:

    [quote comment="332693"]Long time reader but first time posting! I wonder if someone has a theory regarding one of the many questions I have!

    Faraday warned Chang to get everyone off the island. He told Miles that he had to say that so that Chang would do what he was supposed to do. We know that Chang does do this because Miles and his mother do get off the island, as does Charlotte. So what I’m struggling with is – in the real 1977 (when miles was only 3 months old) who told Chang back then to have ppl evacuated? In the epi we watched on Wednesday, Faraday is telling this to Chang in the new 1977 (their present) but he wasn’t course correcting because it is something that happened anyway. Does this make sense to anyone or am I completely Lost ? :)[/quote]

    In the “real” 1977, Dan tells Chang to evacuate the island and that’s why Chang does it. There is only one 1977 on the ISLAND. Dan’s warning is what has always happened. It is a mild chicken and the egg paradox.

  258. wallyp says:

    Ok after reading more posts today, I am back to believing that Eloise is working against Widmore. She has to appear to remain loyal to him (shes been doing it since 1954.) Guess they are not bro and sis, but I still have my doubts about the two of them being Dan Faradays real blood parents. Perhaps Ellie and Charles “adopted” him together (by that I mean kidnapped) at one point. They would have known that Daniel thinks Eloise is his mother, and therefore she would have to play the role. Eloises relationship to Dan is all a role for her, …I hope though that she is working for good and not evil. When her and Widmore are talking at the end of the ep. I think is the first time she is actually concerned about what has happened to Daniel… and that is what she really means by “this is the first time in a long time where I don’t know what will happen.”

    Speaking of this… Dan has apparently been gone for three years (74-77) but where exactly has he been? The Faraday in this episode for all we know could have been travelling for years and years before coming back to 1977. I think this is the case too, …also, do we remember having a conversation on here a while back about Daniel going nuts, spilling his guts to Charlotte and everyone else… well… here we are.

    Anyway, I hope Eloise is working against Widmore and not with him. Perhaps Dan ain’t dead, but I think he may be. I think he lived out his fate on time that we haven’t seen, and came back to 1977 to die (Love the thoery about Jack being there to help him though… maybe thats why Daniel doesn’t want him to be there!?, seems like Jack and co. are the reason that he comes up with his variable idea at the least)

  259. shellonius funk says:

    [quote comment="332708"][quote comment="332707"]PJ….I’m in Nashville too! cheers from hillsboro village.[/quote]

    Hi SF! Actually, I am not in Nashville, but there is a chance I will be at the end of May, 2010.

    : ) P[/quote]

    well you’re welcome to turn the frozen wheel and join us at our LOSTume Finale party coming up! last time i was walt, which was hilarious since i look like charlotte…

  260. steve says:

    [quote comment="332706"][quote comment="332665"]What if little charlie is somehow, the charlie we already know?[/quote]

    See post 208.

    [quote comment="332699"]Ihave always questioned why Penny and Des would name their son Charlie. Isn’t that the same as Charles, as in Widmore?, who they both dispise? The real reason for the name could be that it is “our Charlei”.[/quote]

    Well Charlie Pace saved Desmond’s life – that’s a good reason to name someone.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________________________

    That scene really bothered me. Charley dies because he has been front loaded to do so. Charley closes the comm room door before the window is blown away and the station starts to fill with water, Desmond and charley could have run and dove into the moon pool then swam out to safety. The porthole opening was small enough that they would have had plenty of time to get out before the station filled with enough water to block the egress from the bottom.
    On the other hand, if Desmond believes that Charley saved him, then it is what it is.

  261. shellonius funk says:

    [quote comment="332370"][quote comment="332355"][quote comment="332347"]Can you imagine being stuck down in the Swan Station with Radzinski pushing that freaking button? Isn’t it weird that Inman wasn’t the one that committed suicide. Radzinski has got a huge cobb up his butt all the time. He’s just an annoying character.[/quote]

    Radzinshi “committed suicide” After getting see more of Radzinski, I am convinced that Inman just got fed up and wacked him.[/quote]

    This might sound stupid, but I gotta ask this, did anyone ever think that Inman was Sawyer? I thought that back the first time I saw the Inman/Desmond episode, that Inman was an older Sawyer. dumb maybe, but am i the only one who thought this?…[/quote]

    i have never thought that, but i DO see a resemblance in 70s roger and sawyer. same shaggy hair, same grumpy dialect. i’m just waiting for kate to make her move!

  262. LizS says:

    [quote comment="332496"]WHat I don’t understand is, how do we know that Eloise KNEW she was going to shoot her son? After reading comments, it seems everyone is talking about it, but from my point of view she didn’t know. Just because Dan says that in his final breaths doesn’t really tell us that she knew t6he whole time. OR am I missing something? Please point me in the right direction, as far as her saying she knew. In my point of view, when she was talking to Charles she might have been about to say something else besides that he was going to die. I dont know I am just confused:)[/quote]
    I guess we don’t KNOW how yet, but I think we are inferring it from how Eloise acted and what she says–somehow she became convinced that WHH is an inescapable principle, and that her whole mother/son relationship was predestined. If NOW for the first time she doesn’t know what’s going to happen next, how does she know everything that’s happened up to then? Well, she knows she killed Daniel Faraday in 1977–how did she become convinced he was her son? that he would do x-y-z, and nothing could change that? It’s not clear how that came to be, only that she came to believe it and acted for the next thirty years in accord with it.
    Best, Liz

  263. LizS says:

    [quote comment="332542"][quote comment="332513"][quote comment="332423"][quote comment="332241"]

    either they all stay…..or EVERYONE on the planet dies.

    I mean that Is what the Valenzetti’s equation predicted and the whole TRUE reason dharma was there anyways.

    [/quote]
    OK, here’s my BIG QUESTION–when are they going to say, on the show, that the reason the Dharma Initiative came to the Island was to prevent the end of the world? We can all assume that’s the reason all these things are happening, because of peripheral knowledge from other sources, but when has anyone ever stated it in the aired show? Maybe they did and I don’t remember it, in which case, someone please help me out and tell me where and when.

    My thing is, why doesn’t anyone ever ask that question? What’s up with Dharma? What is the pivotal role of the Island in the world order? Is Dharma a ’70s research cult of whacky scientists/commune-ists? Or something more? What? Why? What about the ‘Hostiles’, the ‘Truce’, how Ellie and Charles fit in–apparent natives, yet tied to the outside world, Widmore rich as all get-out, and yet tied to Dharma, and yet a leader of the Others.

    It is so confusing, and not one of our heroes has the thought, hmm, what up with that? Not, I suppose that they have enough pieces to ask so specific a Q, yet.

    And Jack, well he flung right on board with the free will/people-are-the-variable train. That train has crashed more than once. So we already KNOW since he doesn’t have the ‘special’ quality of Des, that nothing he does is going to do anything expect propel the ‘Incident’ into being.

    But aside from that, WHEN is it going to be said–we are trying to prevent the end of the world?

    –Liz

  264. Sam says:

    What is WHH????

  265. Sam says:

    [quote comment="332723"]What is WHH????[/quote]
    never mind! someone else asks, i just saw the answer!!

  266. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332723"]What is WHH????[/quote]

    See posts 101 and 102.

    : ) P

  267. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332715"]That scene really bothered me. Charley dies because he has been front loaded to do so. Charley closes the comm room door before the window is blown away and the station starts to fill with water, Desmond and charley could have run and dove into the moon pool then swam out to safety. The porthole opening was small enough that they would have had plenty of time to get out before the station filled with enough water to block the egress from the bottom.[/quote]

    Steve! Where’v’ya been, mate? I’ve been saying things like this over and over and everyone is so sick of me! LOL. Actually, the porthole was big enough for Charlie to swim out of. Plus, the chamber would not have filled completely with water because there would have been an air bubble above where the porthole was. I am teetering (just TEETERING) on the edge of believing that the character died, even though the science says he didn’t have to.

    *g*

    : ) P

  268. steve says:

    [quote comment="332726"][quote comment="332715"]That scene really bothered me. Charley dies because he has been front loaded to do so. Charley closes the comm room door before the window is blown away and the station starts to fill with water, Desmond and charley could have run and dove into the moon pool then swam out to safety. The porthole opening was small enough that they would have had plenty of time to get out before the station filled with enough water to block the egress from the bottom.[/quote]

    Steve! Where’v’ya been, mate? I’ve been saying things like this over and over and everyone is so sick of me! LOL. Actually, the porthole was big enough for Charlie to swim out of. Plus, the chamber would not have filled completely with water because there would have been an air bubble above where the porthole was. I am teetering (just TEETERING) on the edge of believing that the character died, even though the science says he didn’t have to.

    *g*

    : ) P[/quote]

    I remember your entries on this. I think that is why this still bothers me.

    I had another random LOST thought –> Could Eloise have sent the Oceanic folks back to the island because they are variables that may bring about the end of the world. She could take them out of the equation by keeping them Lost on the island.

  269. steve says:

    Note “Out of the equation” I liked that one

  270. WWF says:

    [quote comment="332394"]With all the time traveling going on could it be that 2yr old Charlie is really our beloved dead Charlie.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    If it is, Des ages really poorly!
    We saw Charlie’s (to some “our beloved dead Charlie”)dad in some of Charlie’s flash backs many seasons ago.

  271. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332721"][quote comment="332542"][quote comment="332513"][quote comment="332423"][quote comment="332241"]

    either they all stay…..or EVERYONE on the planet dies.

    I mean that Is what the Valenzetti’s equation predicted and the whole TRUE reason dharma was there anyways.

    [/quote]
    OK, here’s my BIG QUESTION–when are they going to say, on the show, that the reason the Dharma Initiative came to the Island was to prevent the end of the world? We can all assume that’s the reason all these things are happening, because of peripheral knowledge from other sources, but when has anyone ever stated it in the aired show? Maybe they did and I don’t remember it, in which case, someone please help me out and tell me where and when.

    My thing is, why doesn’t anyone ever ask that question? What’s up with Dharma? What is the pivotal role of the Island in the world order? Is Dharma a ’70s research cult of whacky scientists/commune-ists? Or something more? What? Why? What about the ‘Hostiles’, the ‘Truce’, how Ellie and Charles fit in–apparent natives, yet tied to the outside world, Widmore rich as all get-out, and yet tied to Dharma, and yet a leader of the Others.

    It is so confusing, and not one of our heroes has the thought, hmm, what up with that? Not, I suppose that they have enough pieces to ask so specific a Q, yet.

    And Jack, well he flung right on board with the free will/people-are-the-variable train. That train has crashed more than once. So we already KNOW since he doesn’t have the ‘special’ quality of Des, that nothing he does is going to do anything expect propel the ‘Incident’ into being.

    But aside from that, WHEN is it going to be said–we are trying to prevent the end of the world?

    –Liz[/quote]
    *********
    Hmmmmm…well always felt like they were infering to this the throughout the show. I think Eloise states it clearest when we first met her refusing to sell that ring to Desmond. I ‘m pretty sure she told him the world would end if he didn’t press the button.

  272. RGS says:

    [quote comment="332721"]
    OK, here’s my BIG QUESTION–when are they going to say, on the show, that the reason the Dharma Initiative came to the Island was to prevent the end of the world? We can all assume…

    My thing is, why doesn’t anyone ever ask that question? What’s up with Dharma? What is the pivotal role of the Island in the world order? Is Dharma a ’70s research cult of whacky scientists/commune-ists? Or something more? What? Why? What about the ‘Hostiles’, the ‘Truce’, how Ellie and Charles fit in–apparent natives, yet tied to the outside world, Widmore rich as all get-out, and yet tied to Dharma, and yet a leader of the Others.

    But aside from that, WHEN is it going to be said–we are trying to prevent the end of the world?

    –Liz[/quote]

    It has never been stated that Dharma is there to save the world. It is moreso an assumption made by bloggers that saving the world is their purpose. At this point the show indicates that they are scientists, commune-ists. Scientists that have some kind of knowledge of the anomalies on the island, and how it could effect time (Dr. Chang).

    I’m not sure if Widmore has been officially linked to Dharma.

    We definitely haven’t been clued into the pivotal role of the island in the World order. We just got officially introduced to the “third” party (assuming they are with a group that has not been, nor will be fully introduced on this show…kinda like the mysterious organization from Quantum of Solace).

    To the extent that the end of the world is at play, it comes from an inference from Ms. Hawkings statements “God help us all,… or we’re all dead,” in responding to Ben, and/or Desmond. Also bloggers have put together a theory that the numbers form a Valenzetti equation that spells out the end of the world.

  273. Heidi says:

    [quote comment="332186"][quote comment="332183"]Hey guys I have a quick question if anyone knows or has heard about this I seen in a magazine that the creators said that a main and minor character would die this season!!! Is that true? Its so wierd how I cant even sit here and hope that its one person or the other. After all these years you feel close to all the characters they are all important. Has anyone else heard about this?[/quote]

    I have heard this. And if it is just Faraday as the MAJOR character I think that is pretty weak. I consider major to be one of the originals. Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Hurley, Sawyer, Juliet (kind of) Jin, Sun and now Ben.
    Not that I want a major character gone, but I think if it is just Faraday, big deal!

    _____________________________________
    Amber, I heard about this, and others mentioned this on the blog. My money is on Sayid. Not that I want to loose the character, just have a gut feeling that he may be finished with his job for the island.[/quote]

  274. RGS says:

    From FLASHES BEFORE YOUR EYES

    DESMOND: I don’t know what you’re on about.

    MS. HAWKING: You don’t buy the ring, Desmond.

    DESMOND: How do you know my name?

    MS. HAWKING: Well, I know your name as well as I know that you that don’t ask Penny to marry you. In fact, you break her heart. Well, breaking her heart is, of course, what drives you in a few short years from now to enter that sailing race — to prove her father wrong — which brings you to the island where you spend the next 3 years of your life entering numbers into the computer until you are forced to turn that failsafe key. And if you don’t do those things, Desmond David Hume, every single one of us is dead. So give me that sodding ring.

  275. LostDamery says:

    OK way back long ago LOST opened with an eye ball, Jack was sucked to the island just like when he was sucked onto it back in 1977. We are made to think he crashed with the plane but maybe the island wants him? I think Jack has been to the island before but doesn’t remember and I am still thinking that adam and eve in the Cave from season 1 will be Kate and Jack or Widmore and Faradays mother…I am just saying they will finish this bad boy going full circle.

  276. Alfred says:

    [quote comment="332560"][quote comment="332496"]WHat I don’t understand is, how do we know that Eloise KNEW she was going to shoot her son? After reading comments, it seems everyone is talking about it, but from my point of view she didn’t know. Just because Dan says that in his final breaths doesn’t really tell us that she knew t6he whole time. OR am I missing something? Please point me in the right direction, as far as her saying she knew. In my point of view, when she was talking to Charles she might have been about to say something else besides that he was going to die. I dont know I am just confused:)[/quote]

    Cause when she’s talking to Whidmore outside the hospital she get’s emotional about how she’s sacrificing more than him. This leads me to believe she does know he’ll die.[/quote]
    She would know when her son looked like the guy she killed on the island

  277. Sam says:

    [quote comment="332736"]OK way back long ago LOST opened with an eye ball, Jack was sucked to the island just like when he was sucked onto it back in 1977. We are made to think he crashed with the plane but maybe the island wants him? I think Jack has been to the island before but doesn’t remember and I am still thinking that adam and eve in the Cave from season 1 will be Kate and Jack or Widmore and Faradays mother…I am just saying they will finish this bad boy going full circle.[/quote]

    Actually, I think that Jack theory could be right. How the Island wants him and he’s been there before…but I dont know about the adam and eve thing. I thought they would be Rose and Bernard!!

  278. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332732"][quote comment="332721"]
    OK, here’s my BIG QUESTION–when are they going to say, on the show, that the reason the Dharma Initiative came to the Island was to prevent the end of the world? We can all assume…

    My thing is, why doesn’t anyone ever ask that question? What’s up with Dharma? What is the pivotal role of the Island in the world order? Is Dharma a ’70s research cult of whacky scientists/commune-ists? Or something more? What? Why? What about the ‘Hostiles’, the ‘Truce’, how Ellie and Charles fit in–apparent natives, yet tied to the outside world, Widmore rich as all get-out, and yet tied to Dharma, and yet a leader of the Others.

    But aside from that, WHEN is it going to be said–we are trying to prevent the end of the world?

    –Liz[/quote]

    It has never been stated that Dharma is there to save the world. It is moreso an assumption made by bloggers that saving the world is their purpose. At this point the show indicates that they are scientists, commune-ists. Scientists that have some kind of knowledge of the anomalies on the island, and how it could effect time (Dr. Chang).

    I’m not sure if Widmore has been officially linked to Dharma.

    We definitely haven’t been clued into the pivotal role of the island in the World order. We just got officially introduced to the “third” party (assuming they are with a group that has not been, nor will be fully introduced on this show…kinda like the mysterious organization from Quantum of Solace).

    To the extent that the end of the world is at play, it comes from an inference from Ms. Hawkings statements “God help us all,… or we’re all dead,” in responding to Ben, and/or Desmond. Also bloggers have put together a theory that the numbers form a Valenzetti equation that spells out the end of the world.[/quote]
    +++++
    Dude…everything about the endgamenumbers is cannon and comes straight from the extra Dharma videos . You’re telling me the sri lanka video and the chang/ farrrady video is just something all us bloggers just made up. Come on brother… you can’t be serious.

  279. Eric says:

    Daniel made Chang look at his notebook before he parted ways with him. In that notebook there were equations and notes on the Dharma stations. The complete picture of the Dharma Initiative on the island. I assume Chang memorized something he saw, and was the one who scribbled the images inside of the Swan that Locke saw while trapped.

  280. Ken says:

    I think this season will be the last we see of the Dharma initiative. The writers will probably wrap it up this season so that more can be focused on this supposed battle to come.

    One question that Season 5 has brought up that has yet to be addressed despite the fact that it was the driving question of Season 1, is what happens that doesn’t allow any children to be born on island (1 exception- Aarron). I don’t think what that thing was/is can be answered yet, but it still raises another interesting question?

    Obviously not being able to have children is affecting the others, despite the appearnance that they age either very slowly or not at all (ex: Richard, 50′s Charles compared to 70′s Charles, and 50′s Eloise compared to 70′s Eloise).

    On the surface, what determines whether your an other or not seems fairly arbitrary. So what makes that decision?
    Looking at some of those born on the island and then have left, it seems they have an unexplainable urge to return. Charolette says the reason she became an anthropologist was to find the island. Miles is back on the island. Daniel has his research which brings him back, whether he was born on the island or not is still open to discussion, but both his parents are others, and it’s no secret that Charles wants back and probably Eloise too.
    The island seens to pull on these people because they belong to it.

    Ethan, an infamous other killed in the first season is delivered on island by Juliet in Season 5.

    It seems, what makes you an other, is being born on the island. If the others are unable to have children, then they are essentially a dying race, albeit a slowly dying one. Figuring out how to fix the birth problem would be imperiative to their survival.

    It seems that there might be a few loop-holes. Whatever Richard did to Ben obviously made him an other, although it seems it carries certain consequences, and John Locke’s rise from the dead. Did John have to die and come back to truly be an other?

    Which brings us to Aarron and Jin and Sun’s daughter (sorry, I don’t remember her name). Aarron was conceived off island and born on island ( ?loop-hole?), and Jin and Sun’s daughter was conceived on island and born off island (?loop-hole?). Does this make them others? Do they too have that unexplainable urge to get back to the island? Is this the last we see of them? It was curiously disturbing when Sun has Aarron in the back of the car at the pier and is talking to her daughter on the phone telling her that she has found her a friend. I first got the impression that Sun was going to take Aarron, but instead both have been left behind.

    Any ideas? Am I way off base here?

  281. MacGyver says:

    A Theory on Dying

    1. If your future self dies in the past your consciousness is sent to your future version. Meaning Charlotte’s mind went back to the kid version in the 70′s just as Desmonds would have been merged with his younger self had not Farraday saved him(the Constant). Of course, if you happen to die and the your consciousness reboots itself into your younger version, you remember nothing. (i.e Charlotte’s and Miles’ total lapse of memory, Farraday weeping for 815 with no recollection, the the note Eloise left Farraday..” I love you no matter what you remember”).

    “You do remember birthdays, Richard?”

    WIDMORE: Because come tomorrow, you won’t remember I did. Daniel, the real Oceanic Flight 815 crashed on an island–a special island with unique scientific properties. I want to send you to the Island. It will further your research, show you things you’d never dream of. But more importantly, it will heal you, Daniel–your mind, your memory.

    2. The Valenzetti Equation predicts the end of the world and true Dharma mission is to change one of the six core values. In the Sri Lanka Video, Alvar Hanso mentions six specific ways that would lead to the end of Humanity, mentioned in order just before he mentions the Numbers in order. 4 corresponds with ‘nuclear fire’, 8 with ‘chemical warfare’, 15 with ‘biological warfare’, 16 with ‘conventional warfare’, 23 with ‘pandemic’, 42 with ‘over-population’. Each of the six dharma stations has a corresponding number/factor to be researched with the hopes of changing. When this is accomplished they are supposed change the numbers broadcasting from the radio tower.

    3. FARADAY: “In about four hours, the DHARMA folks at the swan work site–they’re gonna drill into the ground and accidentally tap into a massive pocket of energy. The result of the release of this energy would be catastrophic. So in order to contain it, they’re gonna have to cement the entire area in, like Chernobyl. And this containment–the place they built over it–I believe you called it “the Hatch.” The Swan hatch? Because of this one accident, these people are gonna spend the next 20 years keeping that energy at bay… by pressing a button… a button that your friend Desmond will one day fail to push…..”-
    The consequence of keeping this energy at bay is a 108 minute time loop. Think of the energy getting exponentially stronger as if the Donkey Wheel was slowly turning on it’s own. Since we can’t allow that….we simply turn the wheel back every 108 minutes. This creates a time loop effect that might have been unintentional, but surely started the whole “We can’t have babies” drama. It is also the reason for the continuing Dharma food drops, as well as the veil keeping any one from finding the islands location. Why do you think the freighter never came until after the swan imploded.

    3. Everyone from the future who dies incident has their consciousness sent to there future self with no memory. SO flight 815 is pure coarse correction for all those that died in the incident.(this of course explains how everyone is mysteriously connected before the crash and why the numbers are everywhere)

    4. Daniel is the cause of the incident. Jughead vs. island= bad idea. But……Daniel didn’t know that he/815 survivors cause the incident because he died and was sent to his future self with no memory. How his parents didn’t anticipate this while manipulating everyone from distance is unclear(Yet we all know the lengths Ben will take to keep some one out of the loop) Daniel reacts poorly when he discovers the losties in the wrong time. Daniel is again wrong and it WAS their(815ers) destiny to go back. Only so they can AGAIN all die just to go back again on flight 815. The only way to stop the incident/endgame is to keep their stubborn faithless selves on the island like they where supposed to in the first place . Dan did say that they ARE the variables BECAUSE of free will.

    5. They should have listened to John

    6. IMO, Lost will end with jack waking up the same way he did in the pilot……alone and in the jungle. They will show us Desmond again pressing the button with penny and Charlie there(killing off either of these two is just a gross miscarriage of justice). We will see the 815ers finally bow before their destiny once denied, and accept the hand fate has given them. They will Choose to stay on the island to save the world. John will FINALLY convince Jack to just ‘believe’…. even when he has no memory of the reasons why. Who knew one tiny suicide note could capture the whole show.

    “I wish you had believed”

  282. JZ says:

    [quote comment="332743"]I think this season will be the last we see of the Dharma initiative. The writers will probably wrap it up this season so that more can be focused on this supposed battle to come.

    One question that Season 5 has brought up that has yet to be addressed despite the fact that it was the driving question of Season 1, is what happens that doesn’t allow any children to be born on island (1 exception- Aarron). I don’t think what that thing was/is can be answered yet, but it still raises another interesting question?

    Obviously not being able to have children is affecting the others, despite the appearnance that they age either very slowly or not at all (ex: Richard, 50′s Charles compared to 70′s Charles, and 50′s Eloise compared to 70′s Eloise).

    On the surface, what determines whether your an other or not seems fairly arbitrary. So what makes that decision?
    Looking at some of those born on the island and then have left, it seems they have an unexplainable urge to return. Charolette says the reason she became an anthropologist was to find the island. Miles is back on the island. Daniel has his research which brings him back, whether he was born on the island or not is still open to discussion, but both his parents are others, and it’s no secret that Charles wants back and probably Eloise too.
    The island seens to pull on these people because they belong to it.

    Ethan, an infamous other killed in the first season is delivered on island by Juliet in Season 5.

    It seems, what makes you an other, is being born on the island. If the others are unable to have children, then they are essentially a dying race, albeit a slowly dying one. Figuring out how to fix the birth problem would be imperiative to their survival.

    It seems that there might be a few loop-holes. Whatever Richard did to Ben obviously made him an other, although it seems it carries certain consequences, and John Locke’s rise from the dead. Did John have to die and come back to truly be an other?

    Which brings us to Aarron and Jin and Sun’s daughter (sorry, I don’t remember her name). Aarron was conceived off island and born on island ( ?loop-hole?), and Jin and Sun’s daughter was conceived on island and born off island (?loop-hole?). Does this make them others? Do they too have that unexplainable urge to get back to the island? Is this the last we see of them? It was curiously disturbing when Sun has Aarron in the back of the car at the pier and is talking to her daughter on the phone telling her that she has found her a friend. I first got the impression that Sun was going to take Aarron, but instead both have been left behind.

    Any ideas? Am I way off base here?[/quote]

    **************

    If this is the last of the DI then who is this war going to be between? Maybe Widmore vs. Eloise vs. Ben? I dunno about that though

    Being born on the island doesn’t necessarily make you an other, because Locke and Ben weren’t born on the island yet they were chosen to be the leader of the Others (again this is as far as we know)

    Also, we know that the pregnancies reach their problems during their second trimester. Claire was already 9 months pregnant (and conceived off the island). Sun even though she conceived on the island, she got off the island before the possible complications started. The Others were bring women to the main island to have their children so they wouldn’t die.

  283. steve says:

    Here is another crazy theory –>

    The world actually is going to come to end. Those on the island are the seeds of a new civilization that will re-populate the human race on earth. Those chosen are meant to be there, and this is why they are brought to the island.
    The island is hidden in the past, but remains in a sychronouse time expanse with the outside world. Think of this as two cars following each other on the freeway. Both in the same lane, just say one car is an hour behind the first car. They both proceed down the road in the same direction and at the same speed. The first car gets in an accident that blocks the road for 20 minutes. The second car will approach the accident time of the first car and then go around it to some time past 20 minutes ahead, and only encounter an open road.

    (I brought this up as the Bill and Teds excellent adventure time scenario – in other words the clock of the present time is always running. )

    In this way they are all there to save the world. The Swan station is built to correct a catastrophic problem with maintaining life on the island and keeping the island fixed and shielded from the present day timeline in a bubble of sorts.

    Desmond, by pushing the button is actually preventing the demise of the island, and thus actually saving the world, by preserving those who are meant to re-populate it.

    Dharma and specifically Pierre Chang learned of Daniels theory about the H-Bomb explosion, from his journal and the meeting at the Orchid, about nullifying the catastrophic magnetic effect under the swan. Explosion vs implosion. This is why the fail safe is put in place. They don’t use it because they are not certain that will actually work and not totally devastate the island. Of course we know that it does work. Now There is the problem with having children. This would definitely hamper re-population efforts, but it would be needed for a while to prevent over population on the island while waiting for the present time world to be habitable again.

    This re-population time may not be far off on the present time timeline. For all we know, Eloise, Charles, and a few others may be from far in the future on the present day time line. what we see as present day is actually the past to them just like Dharma is in the past for the Oceanic people.

    The purpose of the Others is to preserve the seeds of the future until it is time to redeam man and re-populate the world.

    Crazy, but fun to think about.

  284. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332750"]Here is another crazy theory –>

    Crazy, but fun to think about.[/quote]

    4815162342481516234248151623424815162342

    nicely done Steve… definately fun to think about.

  285. LizS says:

    [quote comment="332732"][quote comment="332721"]

    To the extent that the end of the world is at play, it comes from an inference from Ms. Hawkings statements “God help us all,… or we’re all dead,” in responding to Ben, and/or Desmond. Also bloggers have put together a theory that the numbers form a Valenzetti equation that spells out the end of the world.[/quote]
    ‘We” as in the Royal We, meaning ‘me and mine’, meaning just her, the island natives, and things that are of HER concern?

    Or ‘We’ the World?

    I can’t forget how quick she is to pull guns at people, and be hostile to MOST folks–unless motherhood mellowed her. >choke

  286. LizS says:

    [quote comment="332741"][quote comment="332732"][quote comment="332721"]

    +++++
    Dude…everything about the endgamenumbers is cannon and comes straight from the extra Dharma videos . You’re telling me the sri lanka video and the chang/ farrrady video is just something all us bloggers just made up.

    Come on brother… you can’t be serious.[/quote]
    Yah, MacDude, but if it isn’t ON THE AIRED SHOW, and that’s what I’m looking for, it’s not accepted or known by the regular folk who watch the show w/o obsession and blogging and extras that enhance the experience.

    So we ASSUME things like the Valenzetti Equation are what it’s all about, and that’s the truth of the LOST world, But But BUT, Jack and Kate and most of the people we’re following DON’T know it. Maybe Sawyer and the Dharma contingent know, but they haven’t said anything, yet, and don’t seem to be acting as if they have the weight of the world on their hands, and if Daniel knows, he didn’t get a chance to say it.

    Dan’s concerned with variables, so is it, well he knows what’s coming (and how does he? Mathematically or has he sent his consciousness around, this time successfully?) and he wants a shot at changing it?

    Or did he say those things to Jack to engender in him a will to do the things that will lead, not to changing things, but to causing the Incident?

    best–Liz

  287. RGS says:

    Mac 281:

    That is a much better and easier to follow presentation than the first go. I even like some of those theories. I still think the show has to end with more than a mere acceptance of their fate. This theory reminds me of the Star Trek Next Generation ep where Data has to do all these things to prevent some beings from blowing up their ship and in the end he’s the only one that can remember all of the incidents.

    I just don’t think they’d go there.

    As far as the Valenzetti Equation and it’s reliability, I’m having issues with accepting all the extra-curricular footage as being part of the core of the show. That’s asking a lot of the television viewer IMO. If my post read as if things are totally made up, that wasn’t my intention. Rather I was trying to say that we bloggers will take something and expand upon it and it can take on a life of its own.

    So while yes those things have some level of relevance, in varying degrees, I would have a hard time digesting the wrap-up show (wishful thinking I know) if they were to say, “yeah we alluded to this [insert core principle] in mobisode 5 season 2, when Frogurt discovered the torn Temple journal page.”

    I mean honestly, I do love the show, and spend a considerable amount of time discussing this with you folks, but this is the first time I’m hearing of the “Sri Lanka video.” When you posted that I was like, wtf, where did that come from? Granted just because I hadn’t heard about it doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant, I’d still like to think I’ve paid a decent amount of attention to what is presented on the show itself.

  288. Billy F says:

    What ever happens to the charictors minor or not will not matter if they are from the future. Faradays log, if Dr Chang canread his notes and act on them the future changes and the plane does not crash and lands safely at LAX. Whatever happend to them on the island will not have happened. Desmond for example will not have been on the island either, because the need to press the button was no longer there. Now the people on the islands future would have changed, and everyone who was connected with them. For example Eloise would she have left the island, maybe not becuase there was no need for her to. Ben might not have killed the Darmas. Just saying

  289. LizS says:

    [quote comment="332761"]Mac 281:

    So while yes those things have some level of relevance, in varying degrees, I would have a hard time digesting the wrap-up show (wishful thinking I know) if they were to say, “yeah we alluded to this [insert core principle] in mobisode 5 season 2, when Frogurt discovered the torn Temple journal page.”

    I mean honestly, I do love the show, and spend a considerable amount of time discussing this with you folks, but this is the first time I’m hearing of the “Sri Lanka video.” When you posted that I was like, wtf, where did that come from? Granted just because I hadn’t heard about it doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant, I’d still like to think I’ve paid a decent amount of attention to what is presented on the show itself.[/quote]
    I know you weren’t talking to me, RGS, but you expressed so much better than I my concern about the difference in peripherals and the aired show!!!

    Agreeing with you, 100%–that’s my concern–WHEN are we going to get aired show confirmation/or negation of things like Valenzetti? We’re almost to the end, and my hope is that by the end of this season, we’ll know, at last, the framework for what the importance of the island is, and who’s on what side, and what the stakes are.

    best, Liz

  290. MacGyver says:

    Thanks RGS!!!…. you’re the one that forced me to finally get that theory edited. You get a freakin stripe for bringing up that star trek episode though!!!! I remember it well.

    I agree with you and Liz completely. The only logic I came up with was based on the sheer magnitude of information DC is throwing at us.
    Maybe not enought time to get it all aired in the show …so the cheated a bit and came up with the whole lost experience deal. At this point, I ‘m having a hard time believing this show will actually end next year…when they have so much explaining to do. Besides I’ve seen countless shows end only be reborn to keep the fans from killing everyone.

    Maybe no one has told the losties about end game to keep them from making rash decisions like dropping an H-bomb

  291. Twitchy Fan says:

    [quote comment="332706"][quote comment="332665"]What if little charlie is somehow, the charlie we already know?[/quote]

    See post 208.

    [quote comment="332699"]Ihave always questioned why Penny and Des would name their son Charlie. Isn’t that the same as Charles, as in Widmore?, who they both dispise? The real reason for the name could be that it is “our Charlei”.[/quote]

    Well Charlie Pace saved Desmond’s life – that’s a good reason to name someone.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Thanks, I know who Charlie is and that he saved Des’ life, but still……….both Mom and Dad hate Charles Widmore, they fear him, and avoid him at all cost……..I would be hard pressed to name my child with a name closly associated with someone I feared and hated. Penny and Des could have named the baby Pace, then none of us would even question the choice. Somehow I think there are one too many Charles/Charlies for it not to be suspicious.

  292. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332742"]Daniel made Chang look at his notebook before he parted ways with him. In that notebook there were equations and notes on the Dharma stations. The complete picture of the Dharma Initiative on the island. I assume Chang memorized something he saw, and was the one who scribbled the images inside of the Swan that Locke saw while trapped.[/quote]

    According to Inman, it was Radzinski and Inman who were sketching out the stations on the blast door when they were tricking the system into a false lockdown. (LTDA S2E23)

    : ) P

  293. katesFriend says:

    I think Des and Penny named their kid Charlie b/c Charlie Pace is the only reason they found each other again.

    I think if some person brought me and my true love back together again, after everything D and P had been through, I would go ahead and name my kid after that guy!!

  294. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="332750"]Here is another crazy theory –>

    The world actually is going to come to end. Those on the island are the seeds of a new civilization that will re-populate the human race on earth. Those chosen are meant to be there, and this is why they are brought to the island.[/quote]

    Steve, I am liking this. It is certainly simple enough for the casual viewer to accept but complex enough to satisfy us.

    : ) P

  295. Steve says:

    [quote comment="332787"][quote comment="332750"]Here is another crazy theory –>

    The world actually is going to come to end. Those on the island are the seeds of a new civilization that will re-populate the human race on earth. Those chosen are meant to be there, and this is why they are brought to the island.[/quote]

    Steve, I am liking this. It is certainly simple enough for the casual viewer to accept but complex enough to satisfy us.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Please fill in any gaps and expand on this idea. I think this one might have some teeth.

  296. boo says:

    Hey does anyone know who Des’s parents are Do you think Ellie could also be Des’s mom

  297. richard says:

    Charlie:

    One way for Charlie (the baby) to be Charlie (the rockstar) would be if, somehow, Penny, Desmond and Charlie (the baby) are sent back in time and lose Charlie (the baby) – maybe in 1977. And he is orphaned and raised from 1977 (or whenever) and grows up to be the same Charlie we have seen from all the flashbacks. In that way, it would kind of make sense why Desmond has such a closeness to Charlie (seeing his death, etc.) And with Charlie being looked after by “this nurse” it could even be that he is kidnapped from the present and taken back to the past (by Eloise?) – anyway….first time posting.

    Bye!

  298. Eric says:

    PJSander

    Thanks. Still possible, of course.

    Okay, so if there was no reason to burn airtime showing us Chang capturing a page of Daniel’s equations, I’ll be proven wrong twice on this point.

    He may have been there long enough to explain to R&I what’d he seen the day of the “incident.”

  299. Eric says:

    PJSander

    Thanks. Still possible, of course.

    Okay, so if there was no reason to burn airtime showing us Chang capturing a page of Daniel’s equations, I’ll be proven wrong twice on this point.

    He may have been there long enough to explain to R&I what’d he seen the day of the “incident.”

  300. Duke says:

    [quote comment="332422"]I said as Adapa1 in comment 475 WHH ”
    I think the nosebleeds on both methods of TT are do the proximity one has from the other version of himself AND the duration of consciousness in that version. Too long or too close leads to nosebleeds followed by death. Can’t have two versions of yourself in the 70’s right? Charlotte’s last words was a simple merging of consciousness with her younger self.
    If your future self dies in the past your consciousness is sent to that past version. Meaning charlotte’s mind went back to the kid version in the 70’s just as Desmonds would have been merged with his younger self had not Farraday saved him. Of course, if you do die and younger consciousness reboots itself into your younger version, you remember nothing.

    SO…I think Steve nailed it in #366, and that the others have the ability to unstick ones mind from time and send it to a past/future version of yourself …. OR *drum roll* another persons body or “Remember when we used to celebrate birthdays?”

    Maybe Richard sends the omen kids consciousness to the to the future version of Ben on the smaller island.

    I still say Jacobs consciousness was sent through time into John”

    So Yes….. I’m here becuase it’s my turn to say I told you so. ;-)

    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

    I also said (as the novice Adapa1) the EVERY dies in the incident and that it was Daniels fault.

    I also said someone drops jughead and that is the incident.

    and what did daniel say tonight……..hahahhahahahah this is great!!!

    So if your still confused let me tell you all again the story of flight 815

    1. everyone from the future who dies incident has their consciounes sent to there future self with no memory(widmores words to daniel tonight)

    2.815 is pure coarse correction for all those that died in the incident.

    3. daniel didn’t know that he/815 survivors cause the incident becuase he died and was sent to his future self with no memory. his parents obviously know this.

    4. daniel is again wrong and it is their destiny to go back. Only so they can AGAIN all die just to go back again on 815. The only way to stop the incident/endgame is to kepp their stubborn non-believing asses on the island like they where supposed to.

    5. They should have listened to John (aka magnus/jocob). Who’s consciouness was Deliberatley sent back to make them stay.

    6. the #’s button…..IS a 108 loop that someone went back in time to to prevent the 815 crash

    7. dan said that they ARE the variables with free will.

    8. I AGAIN will bet anyone willing that the show will end(as stated before) by starting with jack waking up just like in the pilot, then showing us Desmond Willingly pressing the button with penny and charlie there, and the 815ers finally bowing to destiny …. by accepting their fate IS too stay on the island.

    And with John FINALLY convincing Jack to just believe when he has no memory of why.

    Please refute and debunk in any way. I just want you all to rememeber johns suicide note to jack. “I wish you would have believed” I believe it said.

    You guys’s theories on everything I will remain open minded to. I don’t care about the smoke monster or the statue because we won’t know the cool back story on RA, the black rock, and the island/lemuria/underworld til next season anyway.

    Some one please have my back on this!!!! reminds me of thinking MAcguyver might die…then realizing he can’t because the show is named after him. He couldn’t die then….and I can’t be wrong now.

    ;-)[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Miles is in very close proximity to himself in the 1970′s. Explain how this works with your theory.

  301. iowakid says:

    This is my first posting of an idea. I have read all of the post, over 3 days. I recall this idea being mentioned but not really discussed. Farady tells Jack at one point that he was not to be there as his mother was wrong. But yet his mother seems to know all about the past and knows that she has to send him back. But she also fixes it so Jack is back there. Jack seems to be a pretty good doc, so he is there and Farady is shot, he runs into the camp and saves him. This shots the WHH idea but does support Faradys idea, that people are the variables and have free will and maybe can chnge the future. This idea may also explain why Jack seems to have such a minor role this year. He is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  302. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332904"][quote comment="332422"]

    Miles is in very close proximity to himself in the 1970′s. Explain how this works with your theory.[/quote]

    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
    HAHAHAHAH….good call Duke! I honestly put that in the traveling gunshot wound category. Lemme think a bit. Your gonna hate this other thoery I’m about to post in a minute.

  303. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332910"]This is my first posting of an idea. I have read all of the post, over 3 days. I recall this idea being mentioned but not really discussed. Farady tells Jack at one point that he was not to be there as his mother was wrong. But yet his mother seems to know all about the past and knows that she has to send him back. But she also fixes it so Jack is back there. Jack seems to be a pretty good doc, so he is there and Farady is shot, he runs into the camp and saves him. This shots the WHH idea but does support Faradys idea, that people are the variables and have free will and maybe can chnge the future. This idea may also explain why Jack seems to have such a minor role this year. He is in the wrong place at the wrong time.[/quote]
    _________________________________________
    Not the wrong place at the wrong time – he is where Eloise placed him, SHE is manipulating the “variables” in order to change things.

  304. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment="332765"]Thanks RGS!!!…. you’re the one that forced me to finally get that theory edited. You get a freakin stripe for bringing up that star trek episode though!!!! I remember it well.

    I agree with you and Liz completely. The only logic I came up with was based on the sheer magnitude of information DC is throwing at us.
    Maybe not enought time to get it all aired in the show …so the cheated a bit and came up with the whole lost experience deal.

    At this point, I ‘m having a hard time believing this show will actually end next year…when they have so much explaining to do. Besides I’ve seen countless shows end only be reborn to keep the fans from killing everyone.

    Maybe no one has told the losties about end game to keep them from making rash decisions like dropping an H-bomb[/quote]
    ***********
    I agree – it does feel like there’s too much going on to end in another single season. I’m hoping they will answer the hardcore questions through the first, second and third films!

    Live long and prosper I say!!

  305. iowakid says:

    Rita-you are right in the fact that he is there as Eloise wants him there. I made that statement coming from Jacks point of view. I also hope it is not true as that may mean that in the end of the game Faraday will set off the bomb or tell someone how to do it. That means the up coming incident will not happen. This means that the DI is not hurt by this incident and they come up with world peace. And Flight 815 lands in LA just fine. Bad ending. Or the incident happens, as WHH, the others get pissed (as DI is working in their area) a battle then happens between the others, the DI and Widmers people. If the others win then nothing happens, as they are there to protect the island and they did. If the DI people win then world peace still happens, or what ever they are there for. And if Widmers people win, then Widmer becomes ruler and the 4TS turns out to be of him as he was ruler in the ancient times. And he comes to reclaim his rule.

  306. Shadow says:

    I can’t believe Hurley has been reduced to a bumbling fool this season whose only role is to say “like dude, like you know …” I’m getting kind of tired of it. He used to be such a lovable character, now its just dumb!
    Also, I read today that Desmond in real life is being sued by an ABC employee for sexual assault! That sucks, ’cause I like the character so much.

  307. wingman says:

    Well that was 1 helluva an episode…Well atleast one of my theories panned out…Faraday was definitely a red herring for Jacob as I’ve been saying for months…They were basically rubbing it in our faces near the end with Daniel’s hardcore explanations to Kate and Jack…SO while I did stare at my screen in utter shock @ Daniel dying, I somehow still could breath a bit easy that my Jack = Jacob theory seems to get a boost based on this episode…A man, with a book of all future events, and names, and knowledge of how everything in this endless loop takes place…All Jack has to do now is get trapped in the anomaly, hopefully…Now time to start chopping down this tree (Reading all the posts)…

    *Grabs Horace’s Axe*

  308. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="332954"][quote comment="332765"]Thanks RGS!!!…. you’re the one that forced me to finally get that theory edited. You get a freakin stripe for bringing up that star trek episode though!!!! I remember it well.

    I agree with you and Liz completely. The only logic I came up with was based on the sheer magnitude of information DC is throwing at us.
    Maybe not enought time to get it all aired in the show …so the cheated a bit and came up with the whole lost experience deal.

    At this point, I ‘m having a hard time believing this show will actually end next year…when they have so much explaining to do. Besides I’ve seen countless shows end only be reborn to keep the fans from killing everyone.

    Maybe no one has told the losties about end game to keep them from making rash decisions like dropping an H-bomb[/quote]
    ***********
    I agree – it does feel like there’s too much going on to end in another single season. I’m hoping they will answer the hardcore questions through the first, second and third films!

    Live long and prosper I say!![/quote]
    ******
    Awesome!! I just wouldn’t be able to contain myself.

  309. Steve says:

    [quote comment="332975"]Well that was 1 helluva an episode…Well atleast one of my theories panned out…Faraday was definitely a red herring for Jacob as I’ve been saying for months…They were basically rubbing it in our faces near the end with Daniel’s hardcore explanations to Kate and Jack…SO while I did stare at my screen in utter shock @ Daniel dying, I somehow still could breath a bit easy that my Jack = Jacob theory seems to get a boost based on this episode…A man, with a book of all future events, and names, and knowledge of how everything in this endless loop takes place…All Jack has to do now is get trapped in the anomaly, hopefully…Now time to start chopping down this tree (Reading all the posts)…

    *Grabs Horace’s Axe*[/quote]

    I am still not sure why Jacob is so important.

  310. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="332739"][quote comment="332736"]OK way back long ago LOST opened with an eye ball, Jack was sucked to the island just like when he was sucked onto it back in 1977. We are made to think he crashed with the plane but maybe the island wants him? I think Jack has been to the island before but doesn’t remember and I am still thinking that adam and eve in the Cave from season 1 will be Kate and Jack or Widmore and Faradays mother…I am just saying they will finish this bad boy going full circle.[/quote]

    Actually, I think that Jack theory could be right. How the Island wants him and he’s been there before…but I dont know about the adam and eve thing. I thought they would be Rose and Bernard!![/quote]
    I had been thinging that Adam & Eve were Rose and Bernard since they dissapered but changed my mind when I read your post. WE are supposed to think it’s them but will be supprised to find it is someone else.

  311. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="332739"][quote comment="332736"]OK way back long ago LOST opened with an eye ball, Jack was sucked to the island just like when he was sucked onto it back in 1977. We are made to think he crashed with the plane but maybe the island wants him? I think Jack has been to the island before but doesn’t remember and I am still thinking that adam and eve in the Cave from season 1 will be Kate and Jack or Widmore and Faradays mother…I am just saying they will finish this bad boy going full circle.[/quote]

    Actually, I think that Jack theory could be right. How the Island wants him and he’s been there before…but I dont know about the adam and eve thing. I thought they would be Rose and Bernard!![/quote]
    I had been thinging that Adam & Eve were Rose and Bernard since they dissapered but changed my mind when I read your post. WE are supposed to think it’s them but will be supprised to find it is someone else.

  312. steve says:

    with all the biblical overtones in LOST could the end of days that is being predicted simply the time when the Guff is out of souls. Could the population of the world grow to the point where the Guff is empty, say 4,815,162,342

  313. wingman says:

    [quote comment="332981"][quote comment="332975"]Well that was 1 helluva an episode…Well atleast one of my theories panned out…Faraday was definitely a red herring for Jacob as I’ve been saying for months…They were basically rubbing it in our faces near the end with Daniel’s hardcore explanations to Kate and Jack…SO while I did stare at my screen in utter shock @ Daniel dying, I somehow still could breath a bit easy that my Jack = Jacob theory seems to get a boost based on this episode…A man, with a book of all future events, and names, and knowledge of how everything in this endless loop takes place…All Jack has to do now is get trapped in the anomaly, hopefully…Now time to start chopping down this tree (Reading all the posts)…

    *Grabs Horace’s Axe*[/quote]

    I am still not sure why Jacob is so important.[/quote]

    ————–
    I think the entirety of the Jacob character is knowing that he’s important without knowing WHY he’s so important(As that will be the penultimate reveal)…Maybe Jacob is doing exactly what Daniel was suggesting…Trying to find the right equation or variables if it were to slightly change events…Based on this episode it’s a clear possibility that this loop is endless, and maybe Jacob is the only one capable of distorting or stopping it (arguably via his own knowledge and that of Daniel Faraday’s Journal–That Jack now has BTW)…

    I keep thinking back to the LISTS…Jack was never on Jacob’s list, Ben just lied to get him there to operate on his back (Pickett ONLY said Jack, not the rest)…If the lists are a tool for “guiding” or making sure certain people are apart of certain events, it may be subjective based on how many times “Jacob” has lived the loop…Maybe the first time around “Person A” isn’t on the list, the catastrophe still takes place on the island and next time around Jacob chooses “Person B” this time to see how it will change things (Ben somehow hijacks Jacob’s understanding and thus starts manipulating the lists, making children the priority)…It’s all ike a super-enigmatic puzzle that takes tons of trial and error(Keep in mind Jacob’s living this $hit over and over)…Eventually, mathematically you’ll find the variables to get the right solution…

    I’m also thinking about Eloise’s rationale for sending the group back and how it relates to my last point…It’s more about mathematics than it is about fate or Destiny in this instance…I’m starting to think maybe this has happened continuously throughout the loop…That maybe the key does lie with the variables, but they have just never gotten it right (To the point the catastrophic event doesn’t occur on the island that starts the chain of events again)…

    Eloise always seemed so cavalier about letting them go back to the island eventhough they didn’t have everyone they were suppose to have… I don’t know, there just seems to be an element here that lends itself to “Do-overs”…Widmore, Ellie, and even Ben to certain extent always act like if what they do doesn’t work they’ll have another chance…They never seem to act like it’s a critically desperate 1CHANCE situation they’re dealing with…Jacob is most important probably because he can effect the variables morso than anyone else (Especially if he lived as Jack originally)…

    Guess this OVERanswers your question^^…

  314. Rita says:

    [quote comment="332975"]Well that was 1 helluva an episode…Well atleast one of my theories panned out…Faraday was definitely a red herring for Jacob as I’ve been saying for months…They were basically rubbing it in our faces near the end with Daniel’s hardcore explanations to Kate and Jack…SO while I did stare at my screen in utter shock @ Daniel dying, I somehow still could breath a bit easy that my Jack = Jacob theory seems to get a boost based on this episode…A man, with a book of all future events, and names, and knowledge of how everything in this endless loop takes place…All Jack has to do now is get trapped in the anomaly, hopefully…Now time to start chopping down this tree (Reading all the posts)…

    *Grabs Horace’s Axe*[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.

  315. steve says:

    [quote comment="332993"][quote comment="332981"][quote comment="332975"]Well that was 1 helluva an episode…Well atleast one of my theories panned out…Faraday was definitely a red herring for Jacob as I’ve been saying for months…They were basically rubbing it in our faces near the end with Daniel’s hardcore explanations to Kate and Jack…SO while I did stare at my screen in utter shock @ Daniel dying, I somehow still could breath a bit easy that my Jack = Jacob theory seems to get a boost based on this episode…A man, with a book of all future events, and names, and knowledge of how everything in this endless loop takes place…All Jack has to do now is get trapped in the anomaly, hopefully…Now time to start chopping down this tree (Reading all the posts)…

    *Grabs Horace’s Axe*[/quote]

    I am still not sure why Jacob is so important.[/quote]

    ————–
    I think the entirety of the Jacob character is knowing that he’s important without knowing WHY he’s so important(As that will be the penultimate reveal)…Maybe Jacob is doing exactly what Daniel was suggesting…Trying to find the right equation or variables if it were to slightly change events…Based on this episode it’s a clear possibility that this loop is endless, and maybe Jacob is the only one capable of distorting or stopping it (arguably via his own knowledge and that of Daniel Faraday’s Journal–That Jack now has BTW)

    Guess this OVERanswers your question^^…[/quote]

    I could buy this. I just haven’t seen Jacob actually do anything, make anything, or really have an active part in anything. I only heard Jacob plead for help. As much as I love this show, I can’t help but feel that all these people are not so much supposed to be on the island, as they are not supposed to be in the real world. maybe they are variables needed to be removed from the equation and they are made to be LOST. Charles widmore places a plane on the bottom of the ocean because that is what was supposed to happen. I am almost at the point where the only character with redeeming qualities seems to be Richard. Lets see what tthe finale has to tell us.

  316. wingman says:

    [quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"]Well that was 1 helluva an episode…Well atleast one of my theories panned out…Faraday was definitely a red herring for Jacob as I’ve been saying for months…They were basically rubbing it in our faces near the end with Daniel’s hardcore explanations to Kate and Jack…SO while I did stare at my screen in utter shock @ Daniel dying, I somehow still could breath a bit easy that my Jack = Jacob theory seems to get a boost based on this episode…A man, with a book of all future events, and names, and knowledge of how everything in this endless loop takes place…All Jack has to do now is get trapped in the anomaly, hopefully…Now time to start chopping down this tree (Reading all the posts)…

    *Grabs Horace’s Axe*[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…

  317. Rita says:

    [quote comment="333002"][quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"][/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I don’t know whether Daniel is Jacob or not (leaning towards not) but I was just saying that his being dead (and I do think he is dead) doesn’t necessarily mean he COULDN’T be Jacob.

  318. Flint says:

    Jacob is the ISLAND. (my therory)
    The Smoke Monster takes the dead’s identity. (Ben’s Daughter) and I’ll wager Christian and Lock also. (my therory)

  319. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333037"][quote comment="333002"][quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"][/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I don’t know whether Daniel is Jacob or not (leaning towards not) but I was just saying that his being dead (and I do think he is dead) doesn’t necessarily mean he COULDN’T be Jacob.[/quote]

    No, I completely get what you’re saying, but I’m sorry I think you’ve still misunderstood me…A red herring is a specific technique used to purposely mislead the audience (Usually with characters)…In this case, I long ago declared that Daniel was being used to mislead the audience that he may be Jacob (Crazy, eccentric man, with a book about the future)…Now that he’s been shot, I think that twist is enuff to validate my opinion…Which means I can’t STILL think he’s Jacob, because if I do then he was never a red herring to begin with…He can only be one, so I’m sticking with my belief he was…I just think from a literary standpoint the episode clearly shows us that by him getting shot (killed) in the end…

  320. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333037"][quote comment="333002"][quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"][/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I don’t know whether Daniel is Jacob or not (leaning towards not) but I was just saying that his being dead (and I do think he is dead) doesn’t necessarily mean he COULDN’T be Jacob.[/quote]
    ———————————–
    No, I completely get what you’re saying, but I’m sorry I think you’ve still misunderstood me…A red herring is a specific technique used to purposely mislead the audience (Usually with characters)…In this case, I long ago declared that Daniel was being used to mislead the audience that he may be Jacob (Crazy, eccentric man, with a book about the future)…Now that he’s been shot, I think that twist is enuff to validate my opinion…Which means I can’t STILL think he’s Jacob, because if I do then he was never a red herring to begin with…He can only be one, so I’m sticking with my belief he was…I just think from a literary standpoint the episode clearly shows us that by him getting shot (killed) in the end…

  321. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333044"]
    No, I completely get what you’re saying, but I’m sorry I think you’ve still misunderstood me…A red herring is a specific technique used to purposely mislead the audience (Usually with characters)…In this case, I long ago declared that Daniel was being used to mislead the audience that he may be Jacob (Crazy, eccentric man, with a book about the future)…Now that he’s been shot, I think that twist is enuff to validate my opinion…Which means I can’t STILL think he’s Jacob, because if I do then he was never a red herring to begin with…He can only be one, so I’m sticking with my belief he was…I just think from a literary standpoint the episode clearly shows us that by him getting shot (killed) in the end…[/quote]

    I am going to interrupt the wingman/Rita show *g* and say that YES, a red herring is put there to specifically to throw us off, but since I never once for a second thought that Daniel was Jacob, that was never a red herring for me. LOL

    Back to your regularly scheduled program!

    : ) P

  322. steve says:

    [quote comment="333044"][quote comment="333037"][quote comment="333002"][quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"][/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I don’t know whether Daniel is Jacob or not (leaning towards not) but I was just saying that his being dead (and I do think he is dead) doesn’t necessarily mean he COULDN’T be Jacob.[/quote]
    ———————————–
    No, I completely get what you’re saying, but I’m sorry I think you’ve still misunderstood me…A red herring is a specific technique used to purposely mislead the audience (Usually with characters)…In this case, I long ago declared that Daniel was being used to mislead the audience that he may be Jacob (Crazy, eccentric man, with a book about the future)…Now that he’s been shot, I think that twist is enuff to validate my opinion…Which means I can’t STILL think he’s Jacob, because if I do then he was never a red herring to begin with…He can only be one, so I’m sticking with my belief he was…I just think from a literary standpoint the episode clearly shows us that by him getting shot (killed) in the end…[/quote]

    _____________________________

    I believe Wingman may be right in this case, only the episodes to come will prove whats right. I can also see where anything goes on this show. If Ben’s gun shot would can move, then anything can happen.

    I am having a hard time understanding why radzinski seems to have so much authority. He barges into situations accusing people and ranting. Sawyer/James/La Fluer is the only one who confronted him at first. Why does La fluer not tell Radzinski that Phil is a traitor that he captured. La fluer is the head of security and should not be answering to radzinski. Furthermore, if I were Daniel, I would not have tried to explain why I was at the motor pool. For all radzinski knew, he was there to check out a car to get to the Swan. Even if this was the case it was none of radzinski’s business. The more I see of this guy, the more I am convinced that Inman whacked him in the swan station.

  323. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333045"][quote comment="333037"][quote comment="333002"][quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"][/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I don’t know whether Daniel is Jacob or not (leaning towards not) but I was just saying that his being dead (and I do think he is dead) doesn’t necessarily mean he COULDN’T be Jacob.[/quote]

    No, I completely get what you’re saying, but I’m sorry I think you’ve still misunderstood me…A red herring is a specific technique used to purposely mislead the audience (Usually with characters)…In this case, I long ago declared that Daniel was being used to mislead the audience that he may be Jacob (Crazy, eccentric man, with a book about the future)…Now that he’s been shot, I think that twist is enuff to validate my opinion…Which means I can’t STILL think he’s Jacob, because if I do then he was never a red herring to begin with…He can only be one, so I’m sticking with my belief he was…I just think from a literary standpoint the episode clearly shows us that by him getting shot (killed) in the end…[/quote]
    ******************
    Are you also suggesting that Daniel’s character has no meaning or purpose? I would honestly hate for that to be true. I definitely see you’re point about the red herring making us look in one direction when we are really going in another. But he HAS to be of some importance in this chain of events. I’m sure you’ll agree with me on that I hope.

    I really like all the theories being said about Jack being Jacob. The name parallel makes sense as well as Clair and Christian hanging out with him in the Cabin. It’s like a family reunion of sorts.

  324. PJSander says:

    Maybe pushing buttons in the hatch / Swan station is sort of like a prison sentence. Perhaps Radzinsky was put there to separate him from the rest of DHARMA because of his erratic behavior. But no, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Inman was the one holding the gun when Radzinsky died!

    : ) P

  325. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333051"]Maybe pushing buttons in the hatch / Swan station is sort of like a prison sentence. Perhaps Radzinsky was put there to separate him from the rest of DHARMA because of his erratic behavior. But no, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Inman was the one holding the gun when Radzinsky died!

    : ) P[/quote]

    *****

    Just to clarify…Inman is Kelvin right? Kelvin Inman….i don’t recall the last name being used…just wanted to make sure I have this connection right :)

  326. steve says:

    I would like to get some input into what you all think of the theory in my short post 312?

  327. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333052"]Just to clarify…Inman is Kelvin right? Kelvin Inman….i don’t recall the last name being used…just wanted to make sure I have this connection right :)[/quote]

    Yes.

    : ) P

  328. Locke is Jacob says:

    Great episode, one of the best yet!

    Steve, I think your Question in comment 309 is well worth further discussion. Jacob is such a mysterious character and the information we have about him is slim at best. I think back to Juliette sister, when Ben tells her “Jacob can save your sister, he can cure her cancer” (something like that).

    With all the other “mysterious” items at work in this story, how can we decide that

    ? The reasons we see Juliet’s sister at the park with her son is….

    1)Jacob or something/one played a part in physically healing her

    2)Since this has already happened, Jacob / Ben know she would live

    3)Ben lied to her in the beginning as her sisters Cancer never came back and he was using this as leverage

    4)Jacob and/or Ben has the foresight to know her sister would be cured by “course correction”

    5)There on a different time line?

    6)Other thoughts???

    I know I didn’t keep on thread topic, but if the answer to this question is #1…what else might Jacob have the ability to do?

    Thought???

    Finally, I agree a lot of what we see with some of the characters is nothing more than a red herring.

  329. RGS says:

    [quote comment="333063"]I would like to get some input into what you all think of the theory in my short post 312?[/quote]

    I’m unclear on what a Guff is, was that in the Sri Lanka video? :)

  330. steve says:

    [quote comment="333085"][quote comment="333063"]I would like to get some input into what you all think of the theory in my short post 312?[/quote]

    I’m unclear on what a Guff is, was that in the Sri Lanka video? :)[/quote]
    _________________________________

    The Guf refers to the hall of souls in the Bible. The signs of the apocalypse… When the well of souls is empty the end of days is upon us and the messiah will return. I think it is reference, though not by name, in Issiah

  331. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333049"][quote comment="333045"][quote comment="333037"][quote comment="333002"][quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"][/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I don’t know whether Daniel is Jacob or not (leaning towards not) but I was just saying that his being dead (and I do think he is dead) doesn’t necessarily mean he COULDN’T be Jacob.[/quote]

    No, I completely get what you’re saying, but I’m sorry I think you’ve still misunderstood me…A red herring is a specific technique used to purposely mislead the audience (Usually with characters)…In this case, I long ago declared that Daniel was being used to mislead the audience that he may be Jacob (Crazy, eccentric man, with a book about the future)…Now that he’s been shot, I think that twist is enuff to validate my opinion…Which means I can’t STILL think he’s Jacob, because if I do then he was never a red herring to begin with…He can only be one, so I’m sticking with my belief he was…I just think from a literary standpoint the episode clearly shows us that by him getting shot (killed) in the end…[/quote]
    ******************
    Are you also suggesting that Daniel’s character has no meaning or purpose? I would honestly hate for that to be true. I definitely see you’re point about the red herring making us look in one direction when we are really going in another. But he HAS to be of some importance in this chain of events. I’m sure you’ll agree with me on that I hope.

    I really like all the theories being said about Jack being Jacob. The name parallel makes sense as well as Clair and Christian hanging out with him in the Cabin. It’s like a family reunion of sorts.[/quote]

    —————————-
    No, I am in no way saying that his character has no purpose…We’ve seen his purpose from the start…Everything he did had to be done to get everyone to the point they are now, and being a red herring for something isn’t mutually exclusive to that same character having no meaning…Daniel certainly has meaning, but IMO this episode was really blatant in suggesting Daniel could’ve been Jacob (To a person who has been thinking Jack is Jacob and Faraday was the red herring this episode was uber brilliant in making us doubt ourselves)…,The twist in the end kills like 2 seasons’ worth of speculation on that (Not that everyone saw this or interpreted the same)…From a literary perspective I don’t think you go the route of shaping Daniel’s character the way you did if you didn’t want his death at the end of this episode to be credible…Ellie has shown us all the way since S3, that she prods people to do what they need to do even if they deem it as meaningless (Citing the Desmond-Destiny episode)…So to me, when looking back in retrospect, she knew she had to send her son there to die, and he died…Couple that with me having believed he was the red herring for Jacob for sometime, and you get a situation where I think it’s almost literary cheating to STILL make him Jacob…

    Does that make it easier to understand? It’s not one little hunch, it’s a collection of things that makes me think one purpose of this ep was to kill that possibility (of him being Jacob)…

  332. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333063"]I would like to get some input into what you all think of the theory in my short post 312?[/quote]

    I didn’t give it too much thought because the world population is already over 6 billion! LOL. Plus, as I understand it Guf is from the Talmud, so while religious, isn’t technically biblical. However, I like that you brought up Guf, because in reading up about it, I discovered that souls are considered bird-like and birds have been featured (Walt’s bird, the Hurley-bird, Claire’s sea-birds) in the story.

    : ) P

  333. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="332992"]with all the biblical overtones in LOST could the end of days that is being predicted simply the time when the Guff is out of souls. Could the population of the world grow to the point where the Guff is empty, say 4,815,162,342[/quote]

    July 2008 estimated world population
    6,706,993,152

    Theory was interesting but population is well beyond that already.

  334. sawyer says:

    why is daniel’s surname ‘faraday’ and not widmore or even hawking ? was eloise married to another guy named faraday ?

  335. sawyer says:

    why is daniel’s surname ‘faraday’ and not widmore or even hawking ? was eloise married to another guy named faraday ?

  336. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333063"]I would like to get some input into what you all think of the theory in my short post 312?[/quote]
    *****
    I love that a lot steve…… kinda correlates with this >>

    A Theory on the Temple

    ‘It lies in the shadow of the statue?’
    “Mr. Trebek …what is resurrection?”

    This THE LAST direction I wanted to take this dear bloggers, yet here I am. I propose The temple makes a person remember all their past lives. (i.e, smoke monster vs Ben, Bens so-called lost innocence, Ben’s van has the company name “Canton-Rainier” on the side. It is an anagram for “reincarnation).
    I also propose That the smoke monster is a security system keeping bad seeds far away form this. This explains Ben’s recent actions, and why some have been spared while other haven’t . The following are some bible passages that where either on Eko’s staff or referenced on the show, and are the only reasons i came up with this.

    John 3:5 Jesus said in answer, Truly, I say to you, If a man’s birth is not from water and from the Spirit, it is not possible for him to go into the kingdom of God. 6 That which has birth from the flesh is flesh, and that which has birth from the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be surprised that I say to you, It is necessary for you to have a second birth. 8 The wind goes where its pleasure takes it, and the sound of it comes to your ears, but you are unable to say where it comes from and where it goes: so it is with everyone whose birth is from the Spirit.

    Psalm 23 Even though I walk
    through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil,
    for you are with me;
    your rod and your staff,
    they comfort me.

    Ezekial 16:60 But still I will keep in mind the agreement made with you in the days when you were young, and I will make with you an eternal agreement. 61 Then at the memory of your ways you will be overcome with shame, when I take your sisters, the older and the younger, and give them to you for daughters, but not by your agreement. 62 And I will make my agreement with you; and you will be certain that I am the Lord: 63 So that, at the memory of these things, you may be at a loss, never opening your mouth because of your shame; when you have my forgiveness for all you have done, says the Lord.

    Ezekial 11:17 Then say, This is what the Lord has said: I will get you together from the peoples, and make you come out of the countries where you have been sent in flight, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they will come there, and take away all the hated and disgusting things from it. 19 And I will give them a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in them; and I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh: 20 So that they may be guided by my rules and keep my orders and do them: and they will be to me a people, and I will be to them a God. 21 But as for those whose heart goes after their hated and disgusting things, I will send on their heads the punishment of their ways, says the Lord.

    John 3:16 For God had such love for the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever has faith in him may not come to destruction but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his Son into the world to be judge of the world; he sent him so that the world might have salvation through him. 18 The man who has faith in him does not come up to be judged; but he who has no faith in him has been judged even now, because he has no faith in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the test by which men are judged: the light has come into the world and men have more love for the dark than for the light, because their acts are evil. 20 The light is hated by everyone whose acts are evil and he does not come to the light for fear that his acts will be seen. 21 But he whose life is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his acts have been done by the help of God.

  337. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333076"]Great episode, one of the best yet!

    ***
    Locke is either Jacob or Magnus Hanso!!!

  338. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333095"]
    The following are some bible passages that where either on Eko’s staff or referenced on the show, and are the only reasons i came up with this.

    John 3:5

    Psalm 23

    Ezekial 16:60

    Ezekial 11:17

    John 3:16 [/quote]

    Okay, so I know that

    John 3:5 was on Eko’s “Jesus stick”
    Psalm 23 was the name of an episode, and on the stick
    and
    John 3:16 was the Ajira flight number

    But where in LOST have you found references to Ezekiel?

    All this bible talk got me thinking… Remember in S2E10 P23, when Eko says the bible verse incorrectly? He says “Yea, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death” instead of “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death.” D&C claimed that it was an innocent error on the writers’ part and that it made sense since Eko wasn’t REALLY a priest. But what if the error was a purposeful hint for this season? What if “what lies in the shadow the statue” is the “valley of death?” Not sure where this goes next: Ben’s body pit? Some other burial ground, perhaps beneath the temple? Smokey’s lair?

    : ) P

  339. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333111"][quote comment="333095"]
    The following are some bible passages that where either on Eko’s staff or referenced on the show, and are the only reasons i came up with this.

    John 3:5

    Psalm 23

    Ezekial 16:60

    Ezekial 11:17

    John 3:16 [/quote]

    Okay, so I know that

    John 3:5 was on Eko’s “Jesus stick”
    Psalm 23 was the name of an episode, and on the stick
    and
    John 3:16 was the Ajira flight number

    But where in LOST have you found references to Ezekiel?

    All this bible talk got me thinking… Remember in S2E10 P23, when Eko says the bible verse incorrectly? He says “Yea, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death” instead of “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death.” D&C claimed that it was an innocent error on the writers’ part and that it made sense since Eko wasn’t REALLY a priest. But what if the error was a purposeful hint for this season? What if “what lies in the shadow the statue” is the “valley of death?” Not sure where this goes next: Ben’s body pit? Some other burial ground, perhaps beneath the temple? Smokey’s lair?

    : ) P[/quote]

    Dude…. it was wierd….I think I’m gonna have to take that out to be honest. I was talking with with someone about Ezkiels wheels and the donkey wheel, and then we got on this whole noah’s arc tangent( I was loving the idea of the island being the arc….hmmm) So I made a mistake and left that crap in there. My humble apologies to ALL you bloggers!!
    Thank you very much for catching that PJ!! That’s one of the things thi blog is here for.
    *bows*

  340. Jim in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="333093"]why is daniel’s surname ‘faraday’ and not widmore or even hawking ? was eloise married to another guy named faraday ?[/quote]

    * * * * *

    the unwed Eloise Faraday gave birth to Charles Widmore’s son, Daniel Faraday; she had no desire to name Daniel after his biological father. She later married a Mr. Hawking who is no longer a part of the picture for reasons unknown. Her name is Eloise Faraday Hawking.

    I think.

    8) Jim

  341. belial666 says:

    My gut feeling: Jacob = Jack

    The man of science becoming the ultimate object of faith.

  342. londonboy says:

    I’m in the Daniel-san is dead camp, but I also think we might see him again. I only saw the ComicCon video recently so I’m not overly attached to it, but it’s either misdirection (which seems unlikely) or Dan travelled in time, presumably consciousness time travel, and met Chang before he left for the island or while doing research in Ann Arbour.

    Dan said he tried it out on himself first before Theresa, and we presume he meant post-meeting-Desmond CTT. Either it took a while for the effects to show (Theresa’s consciousness drifting, Dan having a Memento-like inability to form new memories) or it was prolonged exposure/numerous elements.

    But if the island ‘cured’ him, maybe he was able to pick up his research off-island in 74-77 and that’s when he travelled to see Chang.

    He certainly seems to know more than he did before he first came to the island. But why would he say his mother was wrong and that Jack and the others shouldn’t be back? It wasn’t a problem until they turned up – and he must have been looking out for them to have noticed that picture, surely?

    But Sayid and Kate at least had to return in order for Ben to have been shot and delivered to the Others, thereby seemingly making him the man he is and marking how he came to be with the others. That suggests they should have been there.

    How is their being there linked to what Chang’s men are about to do at the Swan? And how did he know when and how it would explode? If Jack and the others are involved, why lead them (via the Others) to it?

    What did he want from his mum? He says to Jack that she’s the only one who can get them back to where they belong. That can’t just be the whereabouts of the bomb. What does he now know or remember about her that he didn’t before?

    Interesting that the two times she met her son in the past, both times Eloise had a gun on him. Good call on her possibly finding out a lot from Dan’s notebook (including up to Desmond seeking her out in the future), and it fits well with her comment about not knowing what happens next, but does it explain everything she knows or her abilities in Flashes Before Your Eyes?

  343. Rita says:

    [quote comment="333088"][quote comment="333049"][quote comment="333045"][quote comment="333037"][quote comment="333002"][quote comment="332996"][quote comment="332975"][/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Wait! Not so fast!! Just because Daniel died, he cant’ be Jacob? Since when on LOST did being dead stop any one from anything!!! :) Not saying Daniel IS Jacob, just that being dead doesn’t preclude it.[/quote]

    —————

    Well Rita that more or less ties into my whole point about Faraday being the red herring..If you believe Daniel was the red herring then you CAN’T also believe he’s Jacob…It doesn’t work like that…Either you believe one or the other, so I’m betting he’s dead, especially based on the flashbacks with his mom knowing that would be his fate…[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I don’t know whether Daniel is Jacob or not (leaning towards not) but I was just saying that his being dead (and I do think he is dead) doesn’t necessarily mean he COULDN’T be Jacob.[/quote]

    No, I completely get what you’re saying, but I’m sorry I think you’ve still misunderstood me…A red herring is a specific technique used to purposely mislead the audience (Usually with characters)…In this case, I long ago declared that Daniel was being used to mislead the audience that he may be Jacob (Crazy, eccentric man, with a book about the future)…Now that he’s been shot, I think that twist is enuff to validate my opinion…Which means I can’t STILL think he’s Jacob, because if I do then he was never a red herring to begin with…He can only be one, so I’m sticking with my belief he was…I just think from a literary standpoint the episode clearly shows us that by him getting shot (killed) in the end…[/quote]
    ******************
    Are you also suggesting that Daniel’s character has no meaning or purpose? I would honestly hate for that to be true. I definitely see you’re point about the red herring making us look in one direction when we are really going in another. But he HAS to be of some importance in this chain of events. I’m sure you’ll agree with me on that I hope.

    I really like all the theories being said about Jack being Jacob. The name parallel makes sense as well as Clair and Christian hanging out with him in the Cabin. It’s like a family reunion of sorts.[/quote]

    —————————-
    No, I am in no way saying that his character has no purpose…We’ve seen his purpose from the start…Everything he did had to be done to get everyone to the point they are now, and being a red herring for something isn’t mutually exclusive to that same character having no meaning…Daniel certainly has meaning, but IMO this episode was really blatant in suggesting Daniel could’ve been Jacob (To a person who has been thinking Jack is Jacob and Faraday was the red herring this episode was uber brilliant in making us doubt ourselves)…,The twist in the end kills like 2 seasons’ worth of speculation on that (Not that everyone saw this or interpreted the same)…From a literary perspective I don’t think you go the route of shaping Daniel’s character the way you did if you didn’t want his death at the end of this episode to be credible…Ellie has shown us all the way since S3, that she prods people to do what they need to do even if they deem it as meaningless (Citing the Desmond-Destiny episode)…So to me, when looking back in retrospect, she knew she had to send her son there to die, and he died…Couple that with me having believed he was the red herring for Jacob for sometime, and you get a situation where I think it’s almost literary cheating to STILL make him Jacob…

    Does that make it easier to understand? It’s not one little hunch, it’s a collection of things that makes me think one purpose of this ep was to kill that possibility (of him being Jacob)…[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    I understand what you are saying wingman, but I guess I disagree that Daniel is necessarily a red herring, or that his death would eliminate him from the running for Jacob. Just a difference of opionion I guess. I actually don’t have a personal opinion on who Jacob is, but I like to keep my options open. :)

  344. wingman says:

    Well that’s the thing about LOST, it has so much content and so many unknown factors different people will take away different POVs for virtually any or all of it…However once the character “Jacob” is presented I think it’s only natural that the audience starts to try and figure out who he may be…I also think it’s natural that the writers (based on the nature of writing for this show since the start)try and throw curveballs in-terms of ultimately setting up the reveal for said character…

    So with all this being in my default mindset when I watch LOST, I find it odd that you haven’t seen any indication that an eccentric, Time Traveling Physicist, who knows the ins and outs of Future events thru his journal, who understands concepts for letting his consciousness move (or survive) thru time, and whose mother is an “original island inhabitant” i.e. hostile; You haven’t seen anything that might suggest that this man might be”Jacob”? I honestly think it’s been blatant to some degree (him being a red herring)…

    Until the final moment of this episode I honestly felt like him being “Jacob” had gotten stronger…But his death was the twist that not only confirmed my thoughts of him being a red herring, but also confirms my thoughts that he can’t be Jacob now…LOL, it’s so hard to explain like 2 or 3 years of seeing a subtle plot dynamic form in like 3 paragraphs, but I did see that thread with Daniel…If the writers somehow still let him be Jacob I will be floored to the core, because from a literary standpoint it just seems illogical to set his character up as Jacob after what happens at the end of this episode…They’re not gonna give Dan, 2 SUPERTWIST moments this late in the series (With the second him still somehow becoming Jacob)…His death was and is the twist IMO…

  345. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="333125"]
    the unwed Eloise Faraday gave birth to Charles Widmore’s son, Daniel Faraday;

    I think.

    8) Jim[/quote]
    Really? The scene when Widmore gets slapped by Hawking and claimed Daniel was his son reminded me of the scene when Ben called Alex his daughter in front of Danielle and earned an elbow to the mouth.

  346. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="333051"]Maybe pushing buttons in the hatch / Swan station is sort of like a prison sentence. Perhaps Radzinsky was put there to separate him from the rest of DHARMA because of his erratic behavior. But no, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that Inman was the one holding the gun when Radzinsky died!

    : ) P[/quote]
    Me neither about Inman. Radzinsky seemed really eager to build the Swan though so I think he may have been there by choice. Inman, however, may have had the “prison sentence”. Kind of like manning a post in Antartica.

  347. wingman says:

    Well I guess this solves the case of Daniel Faraday’s fate…This is not a spoiler only an interview with TV Guide with the creators following this episode…Sorry Rita..

    http://www.sl-lost.com/2009/04/30/damon-carlton-comment-losts-latest-casualty/

    Please forgive me and ignore me if this has been posted already because I’m only at about 150 posts read…

  348. wingman says:

    Oh BTW, interpret the interview as you will, i just think it closes the case for me, but there’s enuff to keep a zealot going…

  349. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="332981"]

    I am still not sure why Jacob is so important.[/quote]

    He speaks for th[quote comment="332727"][quote comment="332726"][quote comment="332715"]That scene really bothered me. Charley dies because he has been front loaded to do so. Charley closes the comm room door before the window is blown away and the station starts to fill with water, Desmond and charley could have run and dove into the moon pool then swam out to safety. The porthole opening was small enough that they would have had plenty of time to get out before the station filled with enough water to block the egress from the bottom.[/quote]

    Steve! Where’v’ya been, mate? I’ve been saying things like this over and over and everyone is so sick of me! LOL. Actually, the porthole was big enough for Charlie to swim out of. Plus, the chamber would not have filled completely with water because there would have been an air bubble above where the porthole was. I am teetering (just TEETERING) on the edge of believing that the character died, even though the science says he didn’t have to.

    *g*

    : ) P[/quote]

    I remember your entries on this. I think that is why this still bothers me.

    I had another random LOST thought –> Could Eloise have sent the Oceanic folks back to the island because they are variables that may bring about the end of the world. She could take them out of the equation by keeping them Lost on the island.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    First, Charlie IS dead. He said so himself if that makes any sense.:)

    After thinking about the title more and what what we saw in the episode, I am led to believe Hawking was the variable for that particular episode but she believed too heavily in destiny, very obtuse way of thinking IMO.

  350. Rita says:

    [quote comment="333150"]
    So with all this being in my default mindset when I watch LOST, I find it odd that you haven’t seen any indication that an eccentric, Time Traveling Physicist, who knows the ins and outs of Future events thru his journal, who understands concepts for letting his consciousness move (or survive) thru time, and whose mother is an “original island inhabitant” i.e. hostile; You haven’t seen anything that might suggest that this man might be”Jacob”? I honestly think it’s been blatant to some degree (him being a red herring)…

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Wow, LOL, how did you get that I never saw anything that suggested Daniel might be either Jacob or a red herring??? I only meant that I DID see the same “signs” that you did, but hadn’t made any decisions about where it was taking us FOR SURE. I was only saying that I believed that Daniel was dead, but that as Jacob is as likely as not to turn out to be a dead person, it COULD still turn out to be Daniel. After reading the interview you posted, it seems that he won’t be (though I doubt that we have seen the last of him :). I find that D&C lead us where they will, but that they are NOT predictable – anyone is still in the running to be Jacob, until they are not.
    *g*

  351. steve says:

    [quote comment="333166"]

    I had another random LOST thought –> Could Eloise have sent the Oceanic folks back to the island because they are variables that may bring about the end of the world. She could take them out of the equation by keeping them Lost on the island.
    +++++++++++++
    First, Charlie IS dead. He said so himself if that makes any sense.:)

    After thinking about the title more and what what we saw in the episode, I am led to believe Hawking was the variable for that particular episode but she believed too heavily in destiny, very obtuse way of thinking IMO.[/quote]

    I believed that as well until she told Penny that she did not know what was going to happen next. Something changed, and Desmond was shot. this event may not happened before. the change in the events on this time line were important enough to bring both Eloise and Charles to the location. When Daniel tells Jack that he was not supposed to be on the island, he may have been right. with Jack and Co. busy going back to the island, they have changed events. Now they are LOST and cannot further influence events.

  352. shellonius funk says:

    slightly off topic, but hopefully you can appreciate

    http://www.cafepress.com/shelloniusjunk/3001336

  353. WWF says:

    [quote comment="333238"][quote comment="333166"]

    I had another random LOST thought –> Could Eloise have sent the Oceanic folks back to the island because they are variables that may bring about the end of the world. She could take them out of the equation by keeping them Lost on the island.
    +++++++++++++
    First, Charlie IS dead. He said so himself if that makes any sense.:)

    After thinking about the title more and what what we saw in the episode, I am led to believe Hawking was the variable for that particular episode but she believed too heavily in destiny, very obtuse way of thinking IMO.[/quote]

    I believed that as well until she told Penny that she did not know what was going to happen next. Something changed, and Desmond was shot. this event may not happened before. the change in the events on this time line were important enough to bring both Eloise and Charles to the location. When Daniel tells Jack that he was not supposed to be on the island, he may have been right. with Jack and Co. busy going back to the island, they have changed events. Now they are LOST and cannot further influence events.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think the “something has changed” is the fact that Whidmore “changed the rules” in killing Alex, which led to Ben’s attempt to kill Penny, which resulted in Des getting shot. So, that event very well could have not happened before as the rules changed setting this this course of events in action.

  354. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333248"][quote comment="333238"][quote comment="333166"]

    I had another random LOST thought –> Could Eloise have sent the Oceanic folks back to the island because they are variables that may bring about the end of the world. She could take them out of the equation by keeping them Lost on the island.
    +++++++++++++
    First, Charlie IS dead. He said so himself if that makes any sense.:)

    After thinking about the title more and what what we saw in the episode, I am led to believe Hawking was the variable for that particular episode but she believed too heavily in destiny, very obtuse way of thinking IMO.[/quote]

    I believed that as well until she told Penny that she did not know what was going to happen next. Something changed, and Desmond was shot. this event may not happened before. the change in the events on this time line were important enough to bring both Eloise and Charles to the location. When Daniel tells Jack that he was not supposed to be on the island, he may have been right. with Jack and Co. busy going back to the island, they have changed events. Now they are LOST and cannot further influence events.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think the “something has changed” is the fact that Whidmore “changed the rules” in killing Alex, which led to Ben’s attempt to kill Penny, which resulted in Des getting shot. So, that event very well could have not happened before as the rules changed setting this this course of events in action.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I was pondering the same thing…good theory!

  355. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333246"]slightly off topic, but hopefully you can appreciate

    http://www.cafepress.com/shelloniusjunk/3001336%5B/quote%5D

    ——————————–

    Good $hit shellonius funk…That “Jacob for Obama” T-shirt is sweeeeet…It even has 3x sizes, not that I’m Hurley sized, just like wearing bigger shirts…I might very well cop that…

    @Rita – Yeah that interview pretty much seals the deal for me…Gonna miss Daniel, he was a very talented actor playing an extremely quirky character…He finally was getting into his own and boom! The end-date strikes again…Normal season we would have had atleast 2 more Daniel eps and perhaps saw the experiments he did on himself and on Theresa…But my frustration with this aspect of the show is another issue…I take it from the article that many actors hold grudges with D&C for killing them off, I guess some are warranted, but I wouldn’t be mad @ Daniel’s actor if he did…

  356. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="333250"][quote comment="333248"][quote comment="333238"][quote comment="333166"]

    I had another random LOST thought –> Could Eloise have sent the Oceanic folks back to the island because they are variables that may bring about the end of the world. She could take them out of the equation by keeping them Lost on the island.
    +++++++++++++
    First, Charlie IS dead. He said so himself if that makes any sense.:)

    After thinking about the title more and what what we saw in the episode, I am led to believe Hawking was the variable for that particular episode but she believed too heavily in destiny, very obtuse way of thinking IMO.[/quote]

    I believed that as well until she told Penny that she did not know what was going to happen next. Something changed, and Desmond was shot. this event may not happened before. the change in the events on this time line were important enough to bring both Eloise and Charles to the location. When Daniel tells Jack that he was not supposed to be on the island, he may have been right. with Jack and Co. busy going back to the island, they have changed events. Now they are LOST and cannot further influence events.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I think the “something has changed” is the fact that Whidmore “changed the rules” in killing Alex, which led to Ben’s attempt to kill Penny, which resulted in Des getting shot. So, that event very well could have not happened before as the rules changed setting this this course of events in action.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I was pondering the same thing…good theory![/quote]
    *************
    Thinking out loud after reading some more posts. I had not really bought into the 108 time loop…but just want to talk some things through…
    what if it was a sort of time loop and the island was caught up in it…maybe all those associated with the island were somehow caught up in it…
    Eloise once told Des that is the greatest thing he will ever do…push that button…but then one event happens and he fails to push it on time…then the events start to change…
    the plane crashes, the freighter is able to locate the island, Desmond STOPS pushing the button and eventually gets off the island and marrys Penny….
    un until that even Eloise knew what was happening…after that event everything changed…
    Now it is unknown even for her but maybe she is trying to recreate the past and put the puzzle pieces back in the right order so that desmond ALWAYS continues to push the button…
    again, it is funny how this show makes you think of sooooo many different “variables” and how this or that are related…gotta love it!
    -miss

  357. lost is swkd says:

    john locke is jacob a john locke of the future as i think when it all ends john will be only surviver who stays he is the islands main man

  358. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333163"]Oh BTW, interpret the interview as you will, i just think it closes the case for me, but there’s enuff to keep a zealot going…[/quote]

    I don’t think I am a zealot, though I am sure many would disagree. But honestly, I don’t put ANY stock in that interview. NONE. I think D&C are freekin’ BRILLIANT, but I no longer believe much of what comes out of their mouths. They’ve mislead us before in interviews and podcasts.

    Regardless of whether or not the character has died, Jeremy Davies’ work is not finished, IMO.

    : ) P

  359. wingman says:

    @PJ – Jeremy’s role may not be finished, but the arc of his plotline IS…Everything he has done and had become during the coarse of his 2 seasons was all for the moment of shock we saw at the end of this episode…My literary intuition tells me he will get no greater plot-line than what we just witnessed…That doesn’t mean he isn’t seen again, or that Miles doesn’t talk to his dead body or something, it just means with only 18 episodes leftI think it’s easy to conclude that the core of Daniel Faraday’s plot dynamic is complete… Daniel’s purpose was to be the conduit for the time-travel aspect of the show, to set and skew the rules for the audience…He has served his purpose, however frustrated I am that we only had 1 episode that really examined his backstory (Because of the end-date obviously)…

  360. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333284"][quote comment="333163"]Oh BTW, interpret the interview as you will, i just think it closes the case for me, but there’s enuff to keep a zealot going…[/quote]

    I don’t think I am a zealot, though I am sure many would disagree. But honestly, I don’t put ANY stock in that interview. NONE. I think D&C are freekin’ BRILLIANT, but I no longer believe much of what comes out of their mouths. They’ve mislead us before in interviews and podcasts.

    Regardless of whether or not the character has died, Jeremy Davies’ work is not finished, IMO.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I agree that Dan is dead…and I agree with PJ that we have not seen the last of him. His CURRENT self died in the 1970′s. His past self will likely pop up again trying to change WHH.

  361. londonboy says:

    I thought the point at which Eloise no longer knows what is going to happen is when she is at the hospital with Penny, either as Flight 316 is about to take off or shortly afterwards.

    She doesn’t know what is going to happen next because it hasn’t been written yet, or rather, she hasn’t read it. That’s my thinking, we go into season six with no-one knowing what is going to happen next, rather than something having changed.

    Oh, and kudos to Hammer. I’m sure it was Hammer for a few threads that was suggesting Daniel was maybe suffering from memory loss with his ‘I don’t know’ over the fake 815 news footage. I didn’t believe it for a second but, you right, me wrong. Where is Tarzan btw? Did the tax man get him?

  362. LINS says:

    I’ll probably get shot down for this, but I think it would be weird if Jacob was one of the characters we have already met, especially Jack or Locke. I mean, if anyone, I would have guessed Alpert, but I think Nestor Carbonell said in an interview that he was not Jacob (even though we all know how reliable interviews can be).

  363. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333300"]I’ll probably get shot down for this, but I think it would be weird if Jacob was one of the characters we have already met, especially Jack or Locke. I mean, if anyone, I would have guessed Alpert, but I think Nestor Carbonell said in an interview that he was not Jacob (even though we all know how reliable interviews can be).[/quote]

    Plus Alpert might be Jacob and NC hasn’t even been TOLD yet. There are an extremely limited number of people who know EVERYTHING and I am willing to bet the actors are kept in the dark until episodes are shot.

    : ) P

  364. wingman says:

    @LINS – But WHY would it be weird? And why would it be WEIRDER than having some complete newb be Jacob? If Jacob is just some dood, then I think the integrity of the show takes a hit, because if Jacob is someone we have never seen or heard from once this entire series (except for the “help me”), then I think the creators will have cheated us…I’ll think that they DID make stuff up as they went along instead of most everything being figured out from the start as they’ve basically sworn…

  365. ShelbyDee says:

    I remember hearing on a director commentary during season one or two that Damon was sorry they killed off the Christian character because they loved the actor so much. It’s been my thought that D&C intended to develop Jacob but when they got to know the actor playing Christian they gave the Jacob storyline to Christian instead. I could be totally wrong and maybe there some great reveal with Jacob, but I’m totally prepared for it to be anticlimatic or even ignored.

  366. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333305"]I remember hearing on a director commentary during season one or two that Damon was sorry they killed off the Christian character because they loved the actor so much. It’s been my thought that D&C intended to develop Jacob but when they got to know the actor playing Christian they gave the Jacob storyline to Christian instead. I could be totally wrong and maybe there some great reveal with Jacob, but I’m totally prepared for it to be anticlimatic or even ignored.[/quote]

    I would be plum shocked outta my timeline if they just ignored the Jacob storyline…

  367. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333297"][quote comment="333284"][quote comment="333163"]Oh BTW, interpret the interview as you will, i just think it closes the case for me, but there’s enuff to keep a zealot going…[/quote]

    I don’t think I am a zealot, though I am sure many would disagree. But honestly, I don’t put ANY stock in that interview. NONE. I think D&C are freekin’ BRILLIANT, but I no longer believe much of what comes out of their mouths. They’ve mislead us before in interviews and podcasts.

    Regardless of whether or not the character has died, Jeremy Davies’ work is not finished, IMO.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I agree that Dan is dead…and I agree with PJ that we have not seen the last of him. His CURRENT self died in the 1970′s. His past self will likely pop up again trying to change WHH.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Way late to the party this week, but I agree with Hammer here. How else would Daniel know that the incident would be happening in exactly 4 hours?

  368. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="332299"]Did he tell Charlotte something different or did he tell her what she said he told her a couple of episodes ago? They cleverly didn’t show us.[/quote]
    This is a great catch! Here are the transcripts per Lostpedia:

    From TPID:
    CHARLOTTE: Because I remember something now. When I was little, living here, there was this man… a crazy man, he really scared me. And he told me that I had to leave the island and never ever come back. He told me that if I came back I would die.

    From The Variable:
    FARADAY: Yeah? Hopefully really soon, Dr. Chang is gonna ask a bunch of people to get on the submarine and leave the Island. [Voice breaks] When he does, you and your mommy… you’re gonna have to leave. In case what I do doesn’t work, you cannot be here. You have to leave. [Cries] I tried to avoid telling you this. I didn’t think I could change things. But maybe I can.

    Perhaps the discrepancy is an oversight on the part of the writers? Or is Charlotte’s memory in TPID a little hazy – perhaps she’s combining the memory of Daniel telling her those things from The Variable with the memory of someone else (Dr. Chang?) telling her to never come back or she’ll die?

  369. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="333312"][quote comment="333297"][quote comment="333284"][quote comment="333163"]Oh BTW, interpret the interview as you will, i just think it closes the case for me, but there’s enuff to keep a zealot going…[/quote]

    I don’t think I am a zealot, though I am sure many would disagree. But honestly, I don’t put ANY stock in that interview. NONE. I think D&C are freekin’ BRILLIANT, but I no longer believe much of what comes out of their mouths. They’ve mislead us before in interviews and podcasts.

    Regardless of whether or not the character has died, Jeremy Davies’ work is not finished, IMO.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I agree that Dan is dead…and I agree with PJ that we have not seen the last of him. His CURRENT self died in the 1970′s. His past self will likely pop up again trying to change WHH.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Way late to the party this week, but I agree with Hammer here. How else would Daniel know that the incident would be happening in exactly 4 hours?[/quote]
    *********
    I started thinking that somehow Dan does have an impact on people leaving the island as we know that Miles and charlotte do leave and eventually we see that Dan is off the island too…what we don’t know is if Dan was conceived on island or off…was he ever on that island before (as a baby)? The other thing I started thinking about is age again. Does anyone remember how old Dan is? Is he older than Miles? We know that in 1977 Miles was a baby…but if Dan was older then wouldn’t his younger self have been at the camp when his older self went there to see his mum? Trying to sort that out…

  370. LINS says:

    [quote comment="333303"]@LINS – But WHY would it be weird? And why would it be WEIRDER than having some complete newb be Jacob? If Jacob is just some dood, then I think the integrity of the show takes a hit, because if Jacob is someone we have never seen or heard from once this entire series (except for the “help me”), then I think the creators will have cheated us…I’ll think that they DID make stuff up as they went along instead of most everything being figured out from the start as they’ve basically sworn…[/quote]

    ********************
    The only person I could see it not being weird for, would be Alpert. Why would anyone else act the way they have on the island if they were Jacob? Why would Jack continue to pretend that the island is just a place and nothing special if her were Jacob? Why would Locke act so surprised and amazed as he figured out some of the mysteries of the island if he were Jacob? It would seem to me, if one of them ended up being Jacob, that it would be confusing, like…ok, so if you’re Jacob and you “rule” the island, why did you talk so bad about it, why did you act so surprised about it? It wouldn’t fit. I think it Jacob will be someone that has really been there from the beginning, we just haven’t seen him yet, like he’s been in the lives of everyone already, we just haven’t seen it. Just my opinion though, I think we’ll have to “agree to disagree” on this one :)

  371. wingman says:

    @LINS

    Here’s the pitch:

    Why would anyone else act the way they have on the island if they were Jacob?

    Why would Jack continue to pretend that the island is just a place and nothing special if her were Jacob?

    ok, so if you’re Jacob and you “rule” the island, why did you talk so bad about it, why did you act so surprised about it?

    Why would Locke act so surprised and amazed as he figured out some of the mysteries of the island if he were Jacob?

    Here’s the swing:

    Um, maybe because they’re not Jacob YET…Has it never come across your mind that “the incident” may perhaps be the event that CREATES JACOB…Or something that’s follows the circumstances of that? If Jacob is a consciousness or a person caught in a temporal loop (or something to that effect), time may become meaningless for him (So he can be in all the times the island has skipped to)…So a current character becoming Jacob would be quite plausible if we are indeed watching the first-time around perspective of these characters…

    We CAN agree to disagree because if Jacob is just some newb, then I’ll atleast be convinced that they never had this show planned out like they said (Unless it is explained brilliantly, which is also a possibility)…

  372. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333313"][quote comment="332299"]Did he tell Charlotte something different or did he tell her what she said he told her a couple of episodes ago? They cleverly didn’t show us.[/quote]
    This is a great catch! Here are the transcripts per Lostpedia:

    From TPID:
    CHARLOTTE: Because I remember something now. When I was little, living here, there was this man… a crazy man, he really scared me. And he told me that I had to leave the island and never ever come back. He told me that if I came back I would die.

    From The Variable:
    FARADAY: Yeah? Hopefully really soon, Dr. Chang is gonna ask a bunch of people to get on the submarine and leave the Island. [Voice breaks] When he does, you and your mommy… you’re gonna have to leave. In case what I do doesn’t work, you cannot be here. You have to leave. [Cries] I tried to avoid telling you this. I didn’t think I could change things. But maybe I can.

    Perhaps the discrepancy is an oversight on the part of the writers? Or is Charlotte’s memory in TPID a little hazy – perhaps she’s combining the memory of Daniel telling her those things from The Variable with the memory of someone else (Dr. Chang?) telling her to never come back or she’ll die?[/quote]
    ————————————-

    Well the camera does pan away from them at the end if you watch the scene again (He’s still kneeling and talking to her but they just cut away to Jack and Kate stealing the guns)…So he could have said more in the context of being offscreen..

  373. LINS says:

    RE: Wingman,

    Wow, I guess I just don’t feel as passionately about the character Jacob as you do. And no, I hadn’t thought that the incident might create Jacob…it could make sense though, I think time travel and the time loops definitely have something to do with it all.

    I think that even if it does happen to be a new character though, it’s not going to discredit the show, I don’t think they would have introduced Jacob (in what, season three, four? I can’t remember) if they didn’t have a plan for him, they toss his name around in almost every episode now, so I think they definitely have a plan when it comes to his character.

    I also don’t think that we’re only going to see Jacob on the island though, I think we’re going to see him working behind the scenes of the lives of all the Losties, like somehow connecting them, if that makes sense.

    Again, though, just my opinion, I will gladly concede defeat when I’m wrong – which, knowing this show, I’m sure I will be :)

  374. MacGyver says:

    Wingman wrote:

    , but it’s like you turned a maze into Pan’s Labyrinth…

    *******
    still can’t stop laughing ;-) Wtf was i thinking?

  375. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333352"]

    We CAN agree to disagree because if Jacob is just some newb, then I’ll atleast be convinced that they never had this show planned out like they said (Unless it is explained brilliantly, which is also a possibility)…[/quote]

    On the commentary for cabin Fever, or whatever episode they showed us that image of Jacob, it is stated that the actor used for that Image of Jacob never appears on the show again. Which, of course, I though was retarded.

  376. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="333352"] then I’ll atleast be convinced that they never had this show planned out like they said (Unless it is explained brilliantly, which is also a possibility)…[/quote]

    They have changed the story as the story goes. We know the doctor role of Jack was supposed to be played by Michael Keaton and killed off in the pilot episode. Michael Emerson’s role was expanded after a few episodes. I agree with PJ on the D&C reliability issue in their interviews/podcasts.

    I don’t understand why Jacob has to be a character that we already know, I would personally be very disappointed if he was. I can’t wait for the Jacob reveal, most likely one of the final scenes of the season, or maybe the finale will be Jacob’s FB.

  377. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="333312"]
    Way late to the party this week, but I agree with Hammer here. How else would Daniel know that the incident would be happening in exactly 4 hours?[/quote]
    Right. How else would he have known when Chang would have precisely arrived outside the Dharma station. I just don’t understand how Daniel could be traveling through time? Did he go Doc Brown and build his own Delorean with a flux capacitor? We have only seen him travel through time because the FDW was skipping and when he reached 1974 he left the island on the next available sub. So at what point in Daniel’s own timeline would he be traveling through time? From 1974-1977 after the FDW? And how?

    Thinking again about the “great man” that built the lamp post. After seeing the relationship between modern-day Hawking and modern-day Widmore ( what did her hand say to his face ), I am not sure she would consider him a “great” man.

  378. wingman says:

    @LINS – We shall see, I could be totally wrong aswell, but I’m putting a concrete slab on the pedal and going for broke…Jack = Jacob until I crash and burn…LMAO…

    @MacGyver – No that $hit was hardcore…Hell it blew my mind (which isn’t soopaeasy if I’m being honest), but you gotta understand your surroundings…I mean a good portion of this blog still has trouble understanding why it is the Losties in 1977 can die…LOL with that as a barometer your covert military mind-transfer concepts might be a bit much…I was just interested in the nuts and bolts of your “consciousness to the future when you die” theory…Specifically, in LOST terms, simply what do you think happens? When you say “future-self” is there anything specific about that or is it random? If it’s random I have a problem with it…Daniel crying @ the 815 newstory seems to be a random time period for his consciousness to shift to after he dies on the island (If I’m not confused on what you’ve been saying)…

    @lost4ever – I’m not talking about small details inwhich one character could be replaced by another (before the actual depth of the plotlines are presented)…Micheal Keaton getting killed as Jack doesn’t defeat my point here…My point is the introduction of “Jacob” is arguably one of the biggest shockers in the history of the show, perhaps even beyond “the monster” which is something we still don’t fully understand but we can sorta wrap our minds around…To me, if that character doesn’t exist within the lexicon of the show, then it puts into question what else has just been cherry-picked for convenience…LOST is all about cycles, loops, inevitability, destiny, etc., For Jacob to be some newb who exists outside the framework of that worries me a bit…Now again if it’s explained awesomely I’ll accept and praise it, but my literary intuition tells me they won’t do that…We’ve already seen Jacob, I’d bet everything on that…

  379. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333359"]On the commentary for cabin Fever, or whatever episode they showed us that image of Jacob, it is stated that the actor used for that Image of Jacob never appears on the show again. Which, of course, I though was retarded.[/quote]

    I don’t know when exactly it was said, but D&C admitted that the man in the rocking chair in the cabin who was “Jacob” was the prop master for the show, and not a working actor (I differentiate because arguably, anyone on screen is an actor). There are extras on one of the DVDs where he is speaking to the camera and it is clear he’s the guy.

    : ) P

  380. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333369"]My point is the introduction of “Jacob” is arguably one of the biggest shockers in the history of the show, perhaps even beyond “the monster” which is something we still don’t fully understand but we can sorta wrap our minds around…To me, if that character doesn’t exist within the lexicon of the show, then it puts into question what else has just been cherry-picked for convenience…LOST is all about cycles, loops, inevitability, destiny, etc., For Jacob to be some newb who exists outside the framework of that worries me a bit…Now again if it’s explained awesomely I’ll accept and praise it, but my literary intuition tells me they won’t do that…We’ve already seen Jacob, I’d bet everything on that…[/quote]

    Or Jacob is the Emperor and none of the Others will admit he isn’t clothed.

    It could just be Richard Alpert’s creation of a god who is all knowing and all mighty so that when Richard says, “Jacob says we must do X” and people don’t like it, Richard can shrug his shoulders and explain that he doesn’t make the rules, Jacob does.

    Perhaps Widmore, and later Ben, start to think it through and test Alpert by telling him that they hear Jacob’s instructions as well. Alpert, not wanting to admit he made it all up, plays along. Widmore and Ben each are lying, and suspect the other is, but everyone goes along to keep the secret.

    Then maybe Alpert plays Greg Brady and makes creepy things happen in the cabin with string and a tape recorder. It scares the life out of Ben, who starts to REALLY believe and makes a believer out of Locke, who essentially has looked his whole life for a sign that he really *is* special.

    So maybe the island’s magnetic anomalies really DO have a healing power, and yes, a scary smoke monster and some ghosts, but the mythos that is Jacob is nothing more than smoke, mirrors and three guys who are too drunk on power to admit they made him up.

    : ) P

  381. wingman says:

    @PJ – But why the name “Jacob”? Why not Island God? Or some Hebrew//Egyptian unpronounceable name that would be more magnanimous? “Lewrithius told me to do it!” That’s sounds like a ruler…Why some dude who lives in a Cabin Horace of the Dharma initiative was gonna make? Why is Christian hanging out in this fake cabin with smoke and mirrors giving orders? Why is Locke having dreams about finding this man’s cabin who doesn’t exist? Too many holes in the “Jacob is made up” theory for me…Jacob voted for Obama dude (See shellonius funk’s T-shirts), he’s real…

  382. MacGyver says:

    Wingman….you are ahnds down, the funiest blogger here. You and Tarzan;-)

    and yes….if it was random I would shoot myself. Nah, I think Dan is going right back to birth….just to blow it all up again lol.

    That reminds on how much bothe ben and john being born three months immature makes me wanna just take a nap and hop e it goes away. I just cant seem to trick my mind into accepting that as coincidence.

    By the way… your jack=jacob theory is really starting to piss me off. Only because your making sense ;-) I think you might get me to actuall abandon my john =jacob. Besides I want John to be the reincarnated Magnus Hanso/black rock captain so bad, because that just kicks major ass.

    You sound like a fellow lost angeles native.

  383. wally p says:

    Anybody wanna say that Dan Faraday is Richard Alpert? After watching for my second time last night, I couldn’t get past how fast Richard reacts to Dan getting shot …”He wasn’t going to shoot me Eloise!” seems like the most sure Richard has been about anything in quite a while. I watched the scene a couple times to pair up their mannerisms, and make sure the eye colors were similar…

    huh? huh? I dunno gang, I gotta get off this Jack is Jacob thing for a few. Its not bad, but I think we’ve hashed it around enough, and no one really bit on my Kelvin Inman is Sawyer theory (I never got an eye color match for them BTW)

    PS-more Radzinsky I hope? I wanna know WHAT his deal is. He’s got a total swan up his ass. I still think he knows something…

  384. MacGyver says:

    I have a tremendous amount of respect for you guys …..But I don’t care what the writers said…… DAN IS NOT DEAD.

    There’s five minutes left into todays Macgyver episode. Do you STILL think he actually might die this time. LOL

    I mean did you think John was dead for even a second while he was in the dharma ditch( I hope not). As far as I concerned everthing that comes out of DC’s mouths is 100% Bullshit, pure and uncut.

    I’m pretty sure one of the 48 laws of power is to “make your accomplishments seem effortless”

    I would tell everyone I had it all planned out too!!! Yet I would be secrelty monitoring this blog in a desparate attempt to find ‘a way out’ of the dark alley they backed themselves into the first season. Now they found themselves wondering wtf they where gonna do with the smoke monster. Even I hated the show until John found the hatch. I’m just saying, I’ve been a writer for 16 years(not a speller;-). Of course no comparison to the caliber or style of DC. BUT, I am 100% sure that I’ve advanced enough to be able to recognize an Improv plot versus a planned one. And I KNOW they’re both lying about this. He’s all the proof I needed:

    1. In their shoes ….you would be lying too!!!
    You think abc wants to hear that you have no Ideas…and do you seriously think you would even admit that, when that check symbolizing your future is in said ABC’s exec’s hand slowly making its way into your own.

    2. Being my humbled and hypocritical self I can admit to HATING this show until John found that hatch and to being obbsessed since that moment, and I know I’m not the only one . Can’t be because that’s exactly how DC felt when they thought of it. ;-) (I know not really proof).

    #3. If its all so planned out then why the fuck do we STILL have red-shirts and other mysterious survivors(OMG I hate this). Come on at least make the extras reacurring ones. I mean it is secluded island(so-called island) for god sakes.

    #4. spiders+two stupid characters+ two meaningless deaths= Retarded episode #1 & two writers fixing mistakes made during the not planned out phase.

    #5. They wouldn’t have rushed and made the irrational descision to kill off eko simply because he wanted to leave the show. They could have done Many things to make it SEEM like he was still around….off the top of my head….they could of simply had him dissappear the same a claire. But thats what writers do when the don’t have a complete plan.

    #6. There favorite author is Steven King!!! Imo this is sole cause of everything they’ve done to piss us off, and proving that god does in fact make smart people say the dumbest thing possible just to test me. STEVEN KING has the WORST endings EVER. The stand and IT I rest my case. He’s a brillaint writer but he NEVER has a plan. He just pens gold letter till he runs out of ideas…then takes a dump on the ending. I pray to be wrong about this and yearn to be surprised and humbled in the finale, But while I’m praying for that I can’t help but picture….duh…duh…duh.. wait for it….wait for it..

    #7. The now infamous Traveling Gunshot wound. Now you can’t dispute this point at all guys. If they had this whole thing so damn planned out this wound would have never traveled, and I wouldn’t have a reason to breathe deeply and monitor my anger levels to keep from myself from bleeding internally. If they really knew what they were doing…They would have some person monitoring this blog at all times!! This just goes unsaid!! I would wanna know how well the public is following the plot and how close they are to figuring out the whole thing. Since your career is totally dependant on your fans. Who else rallies to bring back any crappy cancelled show for one more season.
    But we still have no response….which says ‘yeah we screwed up, but we’ll never admit it’. They could have made up ANYTHING to satisfy us, just as a crowd can’t tell if the band messed up the song, because they’ve never heard the song before. How cool would it be if they did monitor this blog so much there’s an episode slamming the theory you just posted by sharing the same title….. just to mock your idea for an hour, and make you re think it all again( I would love that). But thats just me..you know a writer with a two complete plans…..the show…and keeping my fans.

    #8 They signed the shows death certifcate by calling and end at the sixth season. This is the REAL proof IMO. NO WRITER, WHO HAS THE WHOLE SHOW PLANNED OUT, WOULD EVER DO SOMETHING this retard( I feel a four letter word coming on) Lemme count the ways

    This oligates them to so many expectations, they can’t possibly meet. It is immpossible to answer all of our questions in one more season when we barely had any answered this last one. Looks to me DC wanted to stop wondering if this could be the last one. The death certificate is an obvious attempt to achieve some security in striking hollywood. I think thats when they actually developed the full story, because imediatelly after they started to clean house by giving us….well point #4.
    Why would you tell the fans when the ending is when you could have us fretting over that possibilty the end of every season. If they wanted to sign that contract…..they should have kept it a secret.

    #9. And FINALLY ……… THE BLATANT AND DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO GET NEW FANS!!!! if it was a planned out….they they would have known how complicated it was going to get and would have gone out of they’re way to keep the ‘real’ fans, like the ones reading this blog daily. I ‘ve scene every episode atleast four times and I Barely have a grasp. HOw are you really gonna get newbies by showing these filler/crap/enhanced episodes. The day I successfully explain this whole show in an hour is the same day they explain the traveling gunshot wound. But hey miracles happen daily on the island, just never here in lost angeles where you still have to work on this day of miracles, and I find myself willing to pay the $1100 they want in parking parking tickets. A freakin Miracle indeed.
    IF ALL THE EPISODES ARE ON ABC…..THEN reasons WHY WE NEED TO SEE THE STORY OF OCEANIC SIX BOTH EHANCED AND NOT ENHANCED EXCAPES ME…..ONLY TO RETURN AND STAB ME IN THE EYE WHILE I WATCH. There is simply no logical soltion behind this other then the sick need waste both an hour of priceless air time, and another hour from lives. I’ve heard reports that some veiwers where actually abducted during the show ,and all have an hour of ‘lost time’ that they have no recollection of . How else do you think they make a new Lost Fan during the end of season five!!! Brainwashing. For god sakes ,giving us a star trek rerun would have made more sense while
    saving abrams serious commercial money they waste advertising people who are OBVIUOSLY already star trek fans anyways.

    So this is the last rant from me on this I promis . I ‘m just really surprised some of you guys still believe they had this story done from the beggining. You all are being too polite about this. They admit they didn’t even have Ben as the main character in the beginning….which calls for addtional writing when they claim there should be none.

    so no…..Dan is not in anyway DEAD. And yes you would lie about too. To keep us fans guessing and to trick what little ‘new’ fans they have that somehow didn’t notice the traveling gunshot wound.
    I call either an ending just like THe STAND, meaning so terrible your mind rejects it and can’t remember the finale the next day(ALmost no one does for the stand!!;-), or they end it open ended, do the right thing, stop insulting our intelligence, and give us another season.

    If it’s the former…. I’ll be forced to go renegade borg, kidnap DC, and force them to watch “the story of the oceanic six” 108 times.
    “you two are guilty of wasting six years of my life. so now you can either ‘a’ stay bound up in this closet four six years while you both answer every question I have about the universe and the nature of GOd, Or ‘b’ I let the smoke monster(aka a blunt oblect) kill you and I’ll claim you just wanted to leave the bussiness as you did with Eko. Or ‘c”
    just admit you screwd up and give me that damn FDW!!!! Of course I want it signed by everyone, well everyone except DC and Ben.

  385. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333377"]
    That reminds on how much bothe ben and john being born three months immature makes me wanna just take a nap and hop e it goes away. [/quote]

    Dude, it is PREmature. Usually, I let little slips go, but I found this one to be hilarious.

    You win for longest original post ever. LOL (Not necessarily a good thing because seriously, LOST is NOT my life, despite all evidence to the contrary!)

    When posts are PAGES long it means that people are more likely to skip them, so if you want people to read, comment and challenge your ideas, I suggest you find the edit button or post each section separately!

    The scary part is that there will be a few people who read your posts and then “Quote and Reply” and leave the ENTIRE post in their reply. Then other people will “Quote and Reply” to that and leave both complete posts, and so on until the bandwidth is completely used and no one can get back on the blog. LOL.

    [quote comment="333402"]
    So this is the last rant from me on this I promis . I ‘m just really surprised some of you guys still believe they had this story done from the beggining.

    You all are being too polite about this. They admit they didn’t even have Ben as the main character in the beginning….which calls for addtional writing when they claim there should be none.
    [/quote]

    There are a number of your points with which I disagree, but I choose this as the one to contest. They have said from the beginning that the OVERALL STORY ARC was mapped out before shooting of the first episode began. They even likened it TO a MAP, where you’ve planned a cross-country drive and know that you are going to start in LA, visit Las Vegas, the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore, the St. Louis Arch, Underground Atlanta, Orlando and finish in New York City. However, the intermittent stops, the small town diners, the paper-clip museums and the off-interstate scenic routes are yet to be determined. The producers said (and it was SO early, that I think it was JJ and Damon, because Carlton wasn’t even part of the equation at the time) that we would know that they had it mapped out from the very beginning. That they were planting hints in the FIRST episode. That would be a whole lot of false bravado were it not true (and, I suspect, the reason that people focus on Jack waking up in the jungle).

    I have already defended the Ben character’s change from three episode arc to one of the most important characters, so I won’t do it again.

    : ) P

  386. Rita says:

    PJ, well said to MacGyver – I concur.

  387. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333399"]…no one really bit on my Kelvin Inman is Sawyer theory (I never got an eye color match for them BTW)[/quote]

    Sawyer CANNOT be Inman. In 2000, for example Sawyer was SAWYER the con-man somewhere in the south while Inman was in Iraq. In 2002, Sawywer was SAWYER being a con-man somewhere in the south while Inman was in the Swan station pushing buttons with Radzinsky.

    : ) P

  388. Macgruber says:

    [quote comment="333377"]
    and yes….if it was random I would shoot myself.
    [/quote]
    Sweet, do you own a firearm? adapa1 are you back on the pipe? you are adapa1 also, are you not? I will not read your rambling, drug-fueled posts because they make no sense.

  389. Confused.com! says:

    I’m probably going to sound really dumb here but what is WHH?? Lol

  390. steve says:

    [quote comment="333421"]I’m probably going to sound really dumb here but what is WHH?? Lol[/quote]

    Whatever Happened Happened

  391. steve says:

    [quote comment="333415"][quote comment="333377"]
    and yes….if it was random I would shoot myself.
    [/quote]
    Sweet, do you own a firearm? adapa1 are you back on the pipe? you are adapa1 also, are you not? I will not read your rambling, drug-fueled posts because they make no sense.[/quote]

    This post reminded me of something a grade schooler would say on the playground, not something I would see on this blog. Attack the theory not the messenger. The former is useful. And Mac Guyver/Adapa1 – please try to keep the comments to a half a page, while entertaining and sometimes thought provoking, way too long for one sitting.

    I look forward to getting back to LOST speak.

  392. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="333414"][quote comment="333399"]…no one really bit on my Kelvin Inman is Sawyer theory (I never got an eye color match for them BTW)[/quote]

    Sawyer CANNOT be Inman. In 2000, for example Sawyer was SAWYER the con-man somewhere in the south while Inman was in Iraq. In 2002, Sawywer was SAWYER being a con-man somewhere in the south while Inman was in the Swan station pushing buttons with Radzinsky.

    : ) P[/quote]
    *********************************

    Ok, ok. Its far fetched… but I see alot of patterns going on where someone is someone else. From the Jack/Jacob that was all over this thread, to a couple weeks back when the lady in the grocery store that grabbed Aaron was an older Claire. My thinking is that there may be some kind of time “scatter” …Daniel just died, but are there more Daniels in various places in time?

    Say for a second, Sawyer never left 1977 and lived the rest of his life on this timeline. In 1990 he’d be about thirteen years older then he is now… maybe he’s taken his new found skills to Iraq etc. etc. Sure Sawyer the con man is still running around, But Kelvin Inman (code name) is too. Then he goes back to the island specifically to kill Radzinsky, gets stuck there, waits for Sep 22, 2004 to escape- gets killed by Desmond. Its still probable for now. If the whole personA is personB thing is probable. Thats why I remembered it. I’m not supporting it to the death or anything.

  393. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333432"]Say for a second, Sawyer never left 1977 and lived the rest of his life on this timeline. In 1990 he’d be about thirteen years older then he is now… maybe he’s taken his new found skills to Iraq etc. etc. [/quote]

    Okay, I see your point. Still think the idea is out in left field, but I understand you now.

    : ) P

  394. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333427"][quote comment="333415"][quote comment="333377"]
    and yes….if it was random I would shoot myself.
    [/quote]

    Sweet, do you own a firearm? adapa1 are you back on the pipe? you are adapa1 also, are you not? I will not read your rambling, drug-fueled posts because they make no sense.[/quote]

    This post reminded me of something a grade schooler would say on the playground, not something I would see on this blog. Attack the theory not the messenger. The former is useful. And Mac Guyver/Adapa1 – please try to keep the comments to a half a page, while entertaining and sometimes thought provoking, way too long for one sitting.

    I look forward to getting back to LOST speak.[/quote]
    [quote comment="333427"][quote comment="333415"][quote comment="333377"]
    and yes….if it was random I would shoot myself.
    [/quote]
    Sweet, do you own a firearm? adapa1 are you back on the pipe? you are adapa1 also, are you not? I will not read your rambling, drug-fueled posts because they make no sense.[/quote]

    This post reminded me of something a grade schooler would say on the playground, not something I would see on this blog. Attack the theory not the messenger. The former is useful. And Mac Guyver/Adapa1 – please try to keep the comments to a half a page, while entertaining and sometimes thought provoking, way too long for one sitting.

    I look forward to getting back to LOST speak.[/quote]

    Hey PJ got a laugh out of it so it was good for me.
    I thought my so-called drug feuled post actually pertained to the topic at hand. Yours was just focused on Bashing me. I must inform you this is not a playground where the bullies beat up on the smart kids….although you might find in conforting in one. I’ll make two of each comment from now on. One for the smart bloggers, and a special short a simple one for you…just in case you don’t happen to to read it.

    While I’ll admit, in retrospect , I had no idea it was that long. That’s what s happens when I’m at work and constantly interupted. Either way, , and I’ll still be typing, and I’ll still be a crappy speller. But you dear Steve, will always be a the highest ranking asshole here…… now go run along now

  395. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="333436"][quote comment="333432"]Say for a second, Sawyer never left 1977 and lived the rest of his life on this timeline. In 1990 he’d be about thirteen years older then he is now… maybe he’s taken his new found skills to Iraq etc. etc. [/quote]

    Okay, I see your point. Still think the idea is out in left field, but I understand you now.

    : ) P[/quote]
    *****************************

    Hey, its more fun than admitting that I have absolutely no idea whats going on!!!

  396. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333411"][quote comment="333377"]

    There are a number of your points with which I disagree, but I choose this as the one to contest. They have said from the beginning that the OVERALL STORY ARC was mapped out before shooting of the first episode began. They even likened it TO a MAP, where you’ve planned a cross-country drive and know that you are going to start in LA, visit Las Vegas, the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore, the St. Louis Arch, Underground Atlanta, Orlando and finish in New York City. However, the intermittent stops, the small town diners, the paper-clip museums and the off-interstate scenic routes are yet to be determined. The producers said (and it was SO early, that I think it was JJ and Damon, because Carlton wasn’t even part of the equation at the time) that we would know that they had it mapped out from the very beginning. That they were planting hints in the FIRST episode. That would be a whole lot of false bravado were it not true (and, I suspect, the reason that people focus on Jack waking up in the jungle).

    I have already defended the Ben character’s change from three episode arc to one of the most important characters, so I won’t do it again.

    : ) P[/quote]

    *******
    ok……that analogy was pefect …I get it. But as i stated so long winded earlier(sorry guys), They’ve made so many mistakes…. I really only know a few people still watching it. I mean if your gonna make your audience do that much thinking the least you can do make the bullet stay put right???? Every person I talk to here in la has stopped watching it for the same reason “I just don’t know whats going on” Makes me wonder the same about DC. For the record…..I was just making a artistic entry here, I love this show just as much as the next. It’s kinda hard to figure out whats REALLY going on here when you’ve got traveling gunshot scenarios popping up……lol

  397. wingman says:

    I’ll have to also agree with PJSander here, I’ll tell you why later as I’m @ work right now, but Mcguyver your intense scrutiny only reveals your love for this show…No one could be this intense if they didn’t have unbridled passion for it…I will agree with you on the end-date though…that’s the only noose I see around the series…2 full 24 ep seasons based on where we are now would be amazing…The first half of LOST is gonna be like 80 episodes and 2nd half of LOST is gonna be like 40 episodes…The end-date has sacrificed the show’s balance, but I’ll talk more later, “I got work to do” lol…

  398. steve says:

    [quote comment="333437"]
    While I’ll admit, in retrospect , I had no idea it was that long. That’s what s happens when I’m at work and constantly interupted. Either way, , and I’ll still be typing, and I’ll still be a crappy speller. But you dear Steve, will always be a the highest ranking asshole here…… now go run along now[/quote]

    ****************************************
    Highest Ranking… Hey I am number one!!!!!

  399. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333441"]I mean if your gonna make your audience do that much thinking the least you can do make the bullet stay put right???? Every person I talk to here in la has stopped watching it for the same reason “I just don’t know whats going on”[/quote]

    The “traveling gunshot wound” was a CONTINUITY ERROR. The makeup people screwed up. That’s all. There are HUNDREDS of people who work on the production, I think we have to stop harping on the occasional error. EVERY show makes those kinds of mistakes in EVERY episode, it is only in a show were the uberfans dissect every frame and parse every phrase that things like this are even noticed.

    As for the people who have stopped watching, I don’t think it matters. Either you are a fan enough to watch to the end or you’re not. We’re getting our last season even if only two hundred of us are watching. (For the record, last week’s episode garnered nearly nine million viewers, not including those who DVR or watch it online. It doesn’t touch American Idol’s 21 million, but still healthy.)

    There are two kinds of fans – the avid fan who tries to figure it all out and watches the enhanced episodes hoping for some small morsel to come from them (and if you don’t like them, don’t watch them – SHEESH!), and the casual viewer who appreciates the beautiful scenery (bare chests, shapely legs and lush jungles) fine writing, superb acting and phenomenal cinematography *EVEN IF* they don’t fully understand the story.

    But I think you are missing an important point here – there are PLENTY of people who DON’T get it and are fine with that. These are the same people who can watch the “Law and Order” and CSI shows and WAIT to be told who the perpetrator is. There are also people who don’t get it and stop watching. Those are the people for whom formulaic mindless drivel is created. I am not saying that ever person who stopped watching LOST is a moron. Only that it requires that you pay attention and THINK. Some people prefer to escape and NOT think when they watch television.

    : ) P

  400. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333444"]I will agree with you on the end-date though…that’s the only noose I see around the series…2 full 24 ep seasons based on where we are now would be amazing…The first half of LOST is gonna be like 80 episodes and 2nd half of LOST is gonna be like 40 episodes…The end-date has sacrificed the show’s balance, but I’ll talk more later, “I got work to do” lol…[/quote]

    I also agree on the end-date being problematic in that we cannot savor the intrigue while we digest the answers we are being given. Wingman, you’ve made it known that you think we need more episodes, and honestly, I agree. But we can’t change that.

    Here’s the thing… There are several problems with no end date. Either the fans get gypped because the full story isn’t told (The Nine, Reunion). Or the writers have to finish up a story arc and make something else completely different and hope that people keep watching (Prison Break, 24, Desperate Housewives) Or the writers have to keep making stuff up to prolong the story. By pushing for an end-date, D&C provided for the fans a PROMISE that we weren’t going to be left hanging because ABC canceled the show AND gave them a definitive timeline within which they could finish their story. ABC got guaranteed ratings for 48 hours over three years.

    Do I wish they could renegotiate for a few more hours? Of COURSE! But even if ABC gave them a greenlight to do so, they’d have to renegotiate with the actors who would then be in a position to hold the production hostage for outrageous wages. That just won’t happen.

    : ) P

  401. Rita says:

    [quote comment="333437"][quote comment="333427"][quote comment="333415"][quote comment="333377"]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [quote comment="333427"][quote comment="333415"][quote comment="333377"]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    … But you dear Steve, will always be a the highest ranking asshole here…… now go run along now[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Um, MacGyver, please re-read the original post. I think Steve was actually DEFENDING you.

  402. wingman says:

    I know PJ Sanders…Look I can’t assume that everyone has read every comment I’ve ever made. .. Wasn’t sure MacGyver knew I felt that way (about the end-date)..Every week I read things that I might have said weeks and weeks earlier, but no one got around to reading my comments on it, so I don’t just post for the hardcores, I post for the random blogger who may not know my feelings…Sorry if it feels repetitive, but it’s a necessary evil of blogs and forums…As for the rest I get where you are coming from, because I’ve already said what you said…You don’t want an X-Files or Quantum Leap type scenario where a once great show turns into endless drivel, but my prob with the end-date isn’t so much that it is an end-date, but that it’s changing the pace of the show when we FINALLY get to the parts YOU WANT expanded…The time-travel- the Dharama stuff couald all be seasons of there own…I love LOST and am only voicing my pure frustration that the show made us sit thru so much WTF to get to the WTF that’s ridiculously enjoyable to me…Now that we get to the incredible awesome stuff we’ve been waiting for, now everythings fast-paced and drive-by like…Who wouldn’t want 3 Daniel backstory eps now? Who wouldn’t want more with Horace and Dr. Chang and Dharma now? Miles? IMO, if they knew how ridiculously expansive this part of the story could have been, they would have started telling it a season ago…There would have been no reason to stall so much given the great, yet lighting-round season we’re experiencing

  403. wingman says:

    I know PJ Sanders…Look I can’t assume that everyone has read every comment I’ve ever made. .. Wasn’t sure MacGyver knew I felt that way (about the end-date)..Every week I read things that I might have said weeks and weeks earlier, but no one got around to reading my comments on it, so I don’t just post for the hardcores, I post for the random blogger who may not know my feelings…Sorry if it feels repetitive, but it’s a necessary evil of blogs and forums…As for the rest I get where you are coming from, because I’ve already said what you said…You don’t want an X-Files or Quantum Leap type scenario where a once great show turns into endless drivel, but my prob with the end-date isn’t so much that it is an end-date, but that it’s changing the pace of the show when we FINALLY get to the parts YOU WANT expanded…The time-travel- the Dharama stuff couald all be seasons of there own…I love LOST and am only voicing my pure frustration that the show made us sit thru so much WTF to get to the WTF that’s ridiculously enjoyable to me…Now that we get to the incredible awesome stuff we’ve been waiting for, now everythings fast-paced and drive-by like…Who wouldn’t want 3 Daniel backstory eps now? Who wouldn’t want more with Horace and Dr. Chang and Dharma now? Miles? IMO, if they knew how ridiculously expansive this part of the story could have been, they would have started telling it a season ago…There would have been no reason to stall so much given the great, yet lighting-round season we’re experiencing now…My frustration is my love and passion for the show…

  404. steve says:

    [quote comment="333445"][quote comment="333437"]
    While I’ll admit, in retrospect , I had no idea it was that long. That’s what s happens when I’m at work and constantly interupted. Either way, , and I’ll still be typing, and I’ll still be a crappy speller. But you dear Steve, will always be a the highest ranking asshole here…… now go run along now[/quote]

    ****************************************
    Highest Ranking…

    Hey I am number one!!!!![/quote]

    MacGyver/Adapa1,you might have missed the point that MacGruber was insulting you, I was simple standing up for you. But as far as being an asshole… you have no idea just how right you are.

  405. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333455"]I know PJ Sanders…

    My frustration is my love and passion for the show…[/quote]

    Sander – no S. LOL

    And I TOTALLY understand where your frustration is coming from and obviously, I share your passion for LOST. However, I stand by the credo that people should participate in the solution rather then complain about the problem (short version: fix-it or quit yer b*tchin’). Since we CANNOT change this, I think we have to let it go. I am not TELLING you to let it go, just suggesting that you consider it because your stress about it won’t do anything other than raise your coritsol level! LOL

    : ) P

  406. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="333448"][quote comment="333444"]I will agree with you on the end-date though…that’s the only noose I see around the series…2 full 24 ep seasons based on where we are now would be amazing…The first half of LOST is gonna be like 80 episodes and 2nd half of LOST is gonna be like 40 episodes…The end-date has sacrificed the show’s balance, but I’ll talk more later, “I got work to do” lol…[/quote]

    I also agree on the end-date being problematic in that we cannot savor the intrigue while we digest the answers we are being given. Wingman, you’ve made it known that you think we need more episodes, and honestly, I agree. But we can’t change that.

    Here’s the thing… There are several problems with no end date. Either the fans get gypped because the full story isn’t told (The Nine, Reunion). Or the writers have to finish up a story arc and make something else completely different and hope that people keep watching (Prison Break, 24, Desperate Housewives) Or the writers have to keep making stuff up to prolong the story. By pushing for an end-date, D&C provided for the fans a PROMISE that we weren’t going to be left hanging because ABC canceled the show AND gave them a definitive timeline within which they could finish their story. ABC got guaranteed ratings for 48 hours over three years.

    Do I wish they could renegotiate for a few more hours? Of COURSE! But even if ABC gave them a greenlight to do so, they’d have to renegotiate with the actors who would then be in a position to hold the production hostage for outrageous wages. That just won’t happen.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ***********
    it can’t happen because WHH…he he he
    -miss

  407. MacGyver says:

    hahahaha. I ‘m so guilty of telling the wrong person to F-off!!!! I thought stevie was Macgruber. Hey, atleast I went for right the throat. I’m trying to apologise Dear Steve….but it’s kinda hard with this foot stuck in my mouth.

    LOL!!!!

  408. steve says:

    [quote comment="333470"]hahahaha.

    I ‘m so guilty of telling the wrong person to F-off!!!!

    I thought stevie was Macgruber.

    Hey, atleast I went for right the throat. I’m trying to apologise Dear Steve….but it’s kinda hard with this foot stuck in my mouth.

    LOL!!!![/quote]

    ____________________________

    Not a problem. but you did get the asshole thing right, or so my wife keeps telling me.

  409. wingman says:

    PJSander said:

    But I think you are missing an important point here – there are PLENTY of people who DON’T get it and are fine with that. These are the same people who can watch the “Law and Order” and CSI shows and WAIT to be told who the perpetrator is. There are also people who don’t get it and stop watching. Those are the people for whom formulaic mindless drivel is created. I am not saying that ever person who stopped watching LOST is a moron. Only that it requires that you pay attention and THINK. Some people prefer to escape and NOT think when they watch television.

    ——————————————————
    Great points, I’d just add that that’s the beauty of LOST…It’s a show that can be appreciated on so many levels…You don’t have to understand any of it to just enjoy the cinematic nature of the show, or even the interaction between certain characters…It’s funny but my sister was the first person to tell me about LOST…She was so stoked to watch it (and this is a girl who doesn’t get hyped for anything but Lifetime movies)…I watched the first 5-10 episodes of it with her weekly…Although this sounds idiotic now, I would tell her that it was really about a dinosaur island, LMAO (and that would have been enuff for me!)…She just wanted to see how people after a plane crash would hunt, eat, form communities, survive, etc. (and that was enuff for her)..When it became clear that the show was something far more obtuse in nature she stopped watching it…Til this day she hates it and even if I stop by her house and talk about it she will yell at me for even talking about it…Now she’s an extreme case, but it ties into your point about how some people just want escapism, and not a mental journey…

    Unlike Macgyver I was hooked from ep 1, and loved S1 (Mostly I thought the flashback model of storytelling was so unique and I’m a big Quinten Tarentino fan so I really enjoyed that element), but I do understand why people would give up on the show…My personal breaking point came during the polar bear cage eps followed by that 3 month hiatus, but I was frustrated by wanting to know so much more, not being tired of it…I can’t even watch shows like the CSI’s, NCIS, Law & Orders, etc. because they are so mentally beneath me when compared to LOST, yet I do understand why people watch them (CSI’s has to be one of the most blatantly dumb show franchises ever where the culprit just outs themselves at the 50 min mark every ep)…

    Ignoring some great shows found on premium cable TV (Dexter, Rescue Me, Formerly “the Wire” and “ROME”) there is only 1 network show that even comes near the same ballpark as being as good as LOST and that’s the bastard child of the CW network “Supernatural” (The most underrated show of the last 5 years PERIOD!)…If CSI or whatever had 1% of the creative writing and character development of that show it would be amazing…Anyone who thinks it’s just some “Monster of the week” cheesy show as no idea, no clue at all…These are the only 2 shows that truly get my hyped outta my mind each week, but again like you said not everyone can appreciate stuff like this…That’s why Micheal Bay hasn’t been beheaded yet…That’s why it’s gonna be so hard 18 eps from now to cope…That’s why I’m a masochist for that end-date…

  410. MacGyver says:

    dude…i feel so baD……I formally apologise

    But it was funny

    I’ll back you up on ANY theory You post Here. Even if it’s not is englisH….lol!!!!

    I’m an asshole too…obviously

    I will give Supernatural a chance because you said so.

    For me there’s lost…then the wire.

    But i’m the same guy who =owns the la femme nikita collect and SWEARS that’s the most underrated show

  411. bolddeceiver says:

    [quote comment="333124"][quote comment="333111"][quote comment="333095"]
    The following are some bible passages that where either on Eko’s staff or referenced on the show, and are the only reasons i came up with this.

    John 3:5

    Psalm 23

    Ezekial 16:60

    Ezekial 11:17

    John 3:16 [/quote]

    Okay, so I know that

    John 3:5 was on Eko’s “Jesus stick”
    Psalm 23 was the name of an episode, and on the stick
    and
    John 3:16 was the Ajira flight number

    But where in LOST have you found references to Ezekiel?

    All this bible talk got me thinking… Remember in S2E10 P23, when Eko says the bible verse incorrectly? He says “Yea, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death” instead of “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death.” D&C claimed that it was an innocent error on the writers’ part and that it made sense since Eko wasn’t REALLY a priest. But what if the error was a purposeful hint for this season? What if “what lies in the shadow the statue” is the “valley of death?” Not sure where this goes next: Ben’s body pit? Some other burial ground, perhaps beneath the temple? Smokey’s lair?

    : ) P[/quote]

    Dude…. it was wierd….I think I’m gonna have to take that out to be honest. I was talking with with someone about Ezkiels wheels and the donkey wheel, and then we got on this whole noah’s arc tangent( I was loving the idea of the island being the arc….hmmm) So I made a mistake and left that crap in there.

    My humble apologies to ALL you bloggers!!
    Thank you very much for catching that PJ!! That’s one of the things thi blog is here for.
    *bows*[/quote]

    Loving all the new theories after this great episode. Here’s a thought. What if the island is the promised land Moses led his people to in the Old Testament. Remember after leading his people there he was not allowed in? Could the island be this promised land? Are the others the descendants of the ancient people who left a live of slavery to find salvation? Remember Moses is a descendant of Jacob.

  412. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="332415]OK, but if “round and round it goes”, does that mean she keeps killing Dan? That’s not possible, because next time around he would know. I’m so confused! This was clearly the first time that it was happening for him, but Eloise knew that she would kill him? How would she know that except if she had already done it before? And if she had done it before wouldn’t Dan remember? Can someone explain this to me?
    Thanks[/quote]
    hi shadow

    the way i take it is: it was his first time to be killed and her first time to kill. She doesnt know who he was when she kills him. She then went on to give birth to her son knowing what she had done. the child has no memory of being shot, as he was an adult when it happened. She has no memory of him before she shoots him as he keeps (if its circular) going back to the same point before she is aware of who he is. imho

  413. roses12 says:

    actually just remembered that df has been on island before trying to save Charlotte… so confused myself now…and theres susposed to be no paradoxes:)

    two questions: 1. if Daniel was trying to save Charlotte why didn’t he convince her to stay is US and not come to the island and
    2. why were Daniel and Charlotte trying to set of some kind of gas when they first arrived is this linked to blowing up the bomb, at the time I had just put it down to deactivating any security system Ben had in place. But it just seems strange that the scientists should be employed in securing the island.

    questions, damn questions.

  414. wingman says:

    @roses12 -

    1)He told her to leave and apparently from Charlotte’s words he told her if she ever came back she would die…I don’t know how much more need be said to convey the point about getting the hell off that island (Again if you watch the scene once more you’ll see they cut away from the scene while he’s still bending down talking to her, so maybe that’s when he told her she was gonna die if she came back)

    2)Apparently one of the protocols from Widmore was to destroy the gas because this is what “The Others” (notably Ben Linus) used to kill the Dharma initiative and they feared he’d use it again to kill Widmore’s people or whomever else if it came down to it…So no that had nothing to do with the Jughead bomb…

  415. wally p freeley says:

    I go back constantly and think Faraday.
    Sick Girl (was she a caretaker for him to begin with?- do several of his caretakers become victims? Charlotte sort of acted as his caretaker, no?) …there could be more… SO anyways, at some point Daniel goes back 1000 years, and creates the donkey wheel as a means to STOP time travel (or to control the erratic island…), and buries it… Then tells the people of the island some crazy stuff, tells them they need to protect it, etc… and dissapears… then… they build the statue, to guard the buried wheel… in the shadow
    BY burying the wheel in 1979 he therefore buries it in the islands past. Afterall, time has no purpose on the island. SO by doing ANYTHING in ANY year (1979,1994,2004 etc.) you’ve etched it into any time on the island. It’s all parallel.

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