Follow The Leader

ben_s5_followtheleader.jpg

So many questions from last week’s episode, but first, a comment about the photo. I am confident the centricity of tonight’s episode is not going to be solely focused on Ben – but with a title like “Follow The Leader”, I thought a perplexed look on any character’s face would suffice. Much of this season (as in most seasons of Lost) has been about leadership struggles and the moment in which certain characters are required to be leaders. At various times this year, we’ve seen Locke, Sawyer, Richard, Widmore, Faraday and Ben all exert themselves as leaders, whereas the leader from seasons past, Jack, has taken a different approach. That is, up until now – given Faraday’s untimely death, it does look like Jack may see this as his opportunity to find his destiny.

ABC’s Official Show Description

Spoiler Alert

“Jack and Kate find themselves at odds over the direction to take to save their fellow island survivors, Locke further solidifies his stance as leader of “The Others,” and Sawyer and Juliet come under scrutiny from the Dharma Initiative.”

This looks like an episode that will jump back and forth between the two timeframes from an Island stand point and may not have a central character figure – though there are rumors that we’ll get a heavy dose of Richard Alpert tonight. It will be interesting to see how Daniel’s diary factors into the last few hours of this season and what exactly Jack and Kate are able to achieve with the information he has left behind.

Follow The Leader Episode Preview

Sneak Peeks

Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2 | Sneak Peek 3 | Sneak Peek 4 | Sneak Peek 5 | Sneak Peek 6

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495 Responses to Follow The Leader

  1. Heidi says:

    Is tonight the 1 of 2 in the Season Finale? Or do we have 3 episodes left total? Including tonight

  2. Mateo says:

    In this episode’s title “Follow the Leader” I believe even though Ben is pictured he is not the leader, but the follower (for now),.. Locke is the leader of this episode and maybe more to come… Finally, I mean the man is always right vs. Jack who is mostly wrong, he should have been the leader from the start! (although the new Jack seems even more pathetic than the old one)

  3. silentlucidity says:

    I think 3 episodes are left. Tonight’s and a two hour finale next week. The sneak peeks look awesome!

  4. Rita says:

    Yay! It’s LOSTday! I can’t wait for this episode – we have been wondering about the “leader” for ever. So many people have claimed, or been proclaimed, the leader – so who really IS the leader? And who is following? Can’t wait for tonight!

  5. lola says:

    i’ve decided i’m over semi-over sawyer, i’m hot for richard now.

  6. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333450"]Is tonight the 1 of 2 in the Season Finale? Or do we have 3 episodes left total? Including tonight[/quote]

    We have left: tonight’s episode, then a one hour recap at 8pm next week, followed by the two-hour season finale beginning at 9pm next week. Two episodes, three hours of new programming, four hours total.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  7. LostGuru says:

    Happy “Lost-Day”!
    Mainly just read here, but some input…

    So, “Follow the Leader”? My take on the title is that maybe we’ll see Jack step up to take the reigns again. I think he will realize Daniels gone(so we think) and he now knows what has to happen, according to Daniels (last) words.

    This episode could also show us what our friend Locke has been up to. I mean, the writers left us hanging with the episode when we last saw John. Does Ben tell John what he saw? Is John even the tiniest bit curious? What will happen when they travel back to the beach and see the turn-over?

    Still WAY too many questions floating around my head.

    Maybe tonight we’ll have more from the present time losties. I miss Sun.

    So, what do you think? Possible leaders… Locke, Ben, Jack, Alpert, or Sawyer?

    My bet’s on Jack :-)

    Till Later!

  8. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="333461"]i’ve decided i’m over semi-over sawyer, i’m hot for richard now.[/quote]

    I still love Sawyer and his grin, but I do likes me some RA. Someone should develop a line of men’s eyeliner…

  9. Circus Mom says:

    I vote for Vincent as the leader. Only because I don’t think anyone guessed him yet.

  10. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333461"]i’ve decided i’m over semi-over sawyer, i’m hot for richard now.[/quote]
    *********

    I see this is going to be a very funny day ;-)[quote comment="333462"][quote comment="333450"]Is tonight the 1 of 2 in the Season Finale? Or do we have 3 episodes left total? Including tonight[/quote]

    We have left: tonight’s episode, then a one hour recap at 8pm next week, followed by the two-hour season finale beginning at 9pm next week. Two episodes, three hours of new programming, four hours total.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]

    **********
    Hold-on……..lemmme cough up a bit more foot;-)

    Thanks PJ.. That’s exactly what I needed to know. BTW your last comment on the last thread is simply irrefutable. You are right, I did miss the point. I really needed to hear the ‘different ‘kinds of fan. I’ll officially stop being so damn unforgiving and let that fire die out.

    number one….you have the floor

    I vote for dual leadership with Sayid and John. Can’t go wrong with that.

  11. Rita says:

    I’m thinking that the ep will be about trying to decide WHO to follow – follow WHICH leader? All the possible candidates will step forward and look for a following, I’m guessing – John, Widmore, Jack, Richard (maybe), Ben, Horace, Chang, Sawyer, Radowski, you get the idea. Who will emerge as the REAL leader? Is this where we meet Jacob? :)

  12. poopy pants says:

    -I guess its rather obvious to predict that tonight is the night that Locke takes over and makes a sacrifice to the Island(Ben)so I wont but the part im waiting for is the conversation between Locke and Richart,man that should be good,thoughts?

    -And in waiting to see who of the “losties” plucks out one of Radzinski’s eyeballs(correct me if im wrong but in the future he loses an eye right?)I put my money on Jules,I see her driving a hidden bic pen in his eyeball during his “questioning” of her and Sawyer.

  13. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333475"]I’m thinking that the ep will be about trying to decide WHO to follow – follow WHICH leader? All the possible candidates will step forward and look for a following, I’m guessing – John, Widmore, Jack, Richard (maybe), Ben, Horace, Chang, Sawyer, Radowski, you get the idea. Who will emerge as the REAL leader? Is this where we meet Jacob? :)[/quote]

    ********
    If we met Jacob tonight…..I’d probably pass out and just overload. I’m so not ready for that. ;-)

  14. LINS says:

    Six sneak peeks! Holy cow, throw in the commercials and that’s half the show right there! LOL!

  15. wingman says:

    Damn, another Ben-ish ep? Fine by me…

  16. Jesse says:

    I think it’s going to deal with Locke taking over as leader because of what Ben was told the last time we saw him. I am pumped for tonight’s episode!

  17. Alfred says:

    I had a thought…
    Faradays mom and Widmore remember that she kills Faraday so he didn’t change the past did he if they remember and the same things had happended. His math was off. He was wrong.

  18. LINS says:

    I saw on another LOST blog that it’s supposed to be Richard-centric, I hope so because he’s one mystery I would like to learn more about.

    I also saw in an interview with NC that he swears he doesn’t wear any eye make up, he just has naturally beautiful eyes…ok, he didn’t say that last part, but they are pretty nice for not wearing any make up!!

  19. steve says:

    [quote comment="333500"]I had a thought…
    Faradays mom and Widmore remember that she kills Faraday so he didn’t change the past did he if they remember and the same things had happended. His math was off. He was wrong.[/quote]

    They may have changed the past because this time Jack, Kate & Co. were sent back as well. Remember, the Hospital scenes appears to take place the night of the Ajira flight, and Eloise had alredy srranged to have the Oceanic people on the flight. Then in 1977, Daniel tells Jack that they were not supposed to be there and Eloise was wrong about their destiny. IMO daniel was right and the Oceanic folks were not supposed to be there in the WHH scenario. By injecting this change, outcomes may change and this why for the first time in a long time Eloise does not know what will happen next.

    In other words Daniels Past was unchanged, from his point of view, The Oceanic present is still rolling on, but the Island’s future, and the off-island present/past/future may be changed.

    I am assuming that the Hospital scenes are taking place in Desmond’s, Penny’s, and little Charley’s Present, but taking place in Eloise’s, and Charles Widmore’s past.

  20. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="333467"]I vote for Vincent as the leader. Only because I don’t think anyone guessed him yet.[/quote]
    —————————————————————————————–

    Plus, he’s ringer for Ra (The Egyption) :)

  21. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="333478"]-I guess its rather obvious to predict that tonight is the night that Locke takes over and makes a sacrifice to the Island(Ben)so I wont but the part im waiting for is the conversation between Locke and Richart,man that should be good,thoughts?

    -And in waiting to see who of the “losties” plucks out one of Radzinski’s eyeballs(correct me if im wrong but in the future he loses an eye right?)I put my money on Jules,I see her driving a hidden bic pen in his eyeball during his “questioning” of her and Sawyer.[/quote]
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Eyeball plucking seems more Sayid’s style, and we havnt seen him since he escaped. maybe he comes to the rescue?

  22. Farah says:

    I love Lost. I would like to know more about Richard. Who, What, Where, When, Why, but I don’t want a whole show dedicated to him. There is to many questions unanswered for that. Richard needs a nice short flash back that explains the mastery before the opening credits.

  23. Ronnie B. says:

    We are going to learn who Jacob is this year, maybe tonight with the title of the episode??? Anybody have a guess??? Is it someone who we have not met yet? A lostie? Darhma? Hostiles? I really have no guess, but I will say, somehow its….Faraday.

  24. Farahallen says:

    I love Lost. I would like to know more about Richard. Who, What, Where, When, Why, but I don’t want a whole show dedicated to him. There is to many questions unanswered for that. Richard needs a nice short flash back that explains the mastery before the opening credits.

  25. steve says:

    I would be intrigued if Sayid turns out to be Jacob. Not likely, but I could see him as “tortured” leader

  26. Ra says:

    tonight may be a good bet to meet jacob..but i would think they ave that for the finale…whos jacks mom? i cant remember if shes ever been around…alsoi think sawyer and julliet are gonna be the downfall of this episode…you can basically see whats gonna happen with them…be held by darma..interrigated..couple cute lines and nicknames for James..julliette a couple deep stares to him with only sayin a few words..she pisses me off..hope im wrong..I think that they will show why widmore was exiled tonight..and more of him and young elloise…maybe thats the leader…maybe there is a couple leaders for a couple different time frames and we watch all of them tonight…widmore in the 70s..locke..present…jack and kate on thier own mission..and richard..maybe trying to find the leader…like how he visited locke with those items..maybe he visits more people trying to find a leader to follow…maybe we are following the leader “richard” to find the new leader….thoughts

  27. Jon says:

    Lost is gonna beee sickkkk tonight…I cancelled my plans just to watch it..haha Al trautwig gave some funky insight on tonights episode too..lets see if he’s right!
    Take a look here:

    http://blogs.msg.com/themonitor/2009/05/06/lost-thoughts-are-you-ready-to-follow-the-leader/

  28. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="333523"]tonight may be a good bet to meet jacob..but i would think they ave that for the finale…whos jacks mom? i cant remember if shes ever been around…alsoi think sawyer and julliet are gonna be the downfall of this episode…you can basically see whats gonna happen with them…be held by darma..interrigated..couple cute lines and nicknames for James..julliette a couple deep stares to him with only sayin a few words..she pisses me off..hope im wrong..I think that they will show why widmore was exiled tonight..and more of him and young elloise…maybe thats the leader…maybe there is a couple leaders for a couple different time frames and we watch all of them tonight…widmore in the 70s..locke..present…jack and kate on thier own mission..and richard..maybe trying to find the leader…like how he visited locke with those items..maybe he visits more people trying to find a leader to follow…maybe we are following the leader “richard” to find the new leader….thoughts[/quote]
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Well, there’s definately 2 leaders — One for each side of the “war”.

    I wouldnt expect any super reveiling reveilations tonight —- Just enough to hook you into watching the season finale.

    Jacks Mom was on the episode with Christian’s funeral (or whatever), and also when they stepped off the plane in Hawaii.

    Your right on about Juliette. I also cant stand how she says just a couple of words and lives the same look she always has on.

  29. Rumblestilskin says:

    Lives? : )

  30. Rumblestilskin says:

    I kind of dont trust Juliette completely either. Even though she was “marked”, Ben told Jack that whatever she says or does, “She’ll always be one of us”.

  31. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333478"]-And in waiting to see who of the “losties” plucks out one of Radzinski’s eyeballs(correct me if im wrong but in the future he loses an eye right?)[/quote]

    Radzinsky may well lose an eyeball, I don’t know. But is it possible you’re thinking of Mikhail (aka Patchy) instead?

    : ) P

  32. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333523"]whos jacks mom? i cant remember if shes ever been around.[/quote]

    Jack’s mom is Margo Shepherd, portrayed by Veronica Hamel. I think we first saw her in a Jack-centric flashback when she talks Jack into going to Australia to bring back his dad. (Interesting tidbit – the actress appeared in the last cigarette commercial to air on US television on January 1, 1971, at 11:59 pm.)

    : ) P

  33. poopy pants says:

    Ah yes good ole “Patchy”.Thx,I think your right,got my season 1 bad guys mixed up.Patchy = glass eye.Radzinski = brains on hatch ceiling

  34. Mrs.Awesome says:

    FINALLY .. lost night. I hope this episode ans. more question then they leave. I have a question did they ever tell us how Claires mother was healed?

  35. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333531"]I kind of dont trust Juliette completely either. Even though she was “marked”, Ben told Jack that whatever she says or does, “She’ll always be one of us”.[/quote]

    ——————————————
    Dude, I’ve been thinking Juliet has been up to something all season, but it doesn’t seem like anything is gonna come of it…I mean she was already shady as hell, but when she stopped Locke from telling the flashers that Ethan shot him I thought for sure we were in for a Juliet subterfuge subplot, but it just looks like she may only have 2 facial expressions…Cold Fish, and Gooftroop…Still 3 hrs left, maybe they’ll throw something in there…

    On another note can’t wait to see who gets shot in the outrigger…That’s gonna be this episode or next for sure since the beach will be on the move now…

  36. Duke says:

    [quote comment="333508"][quote comment="333478"]-I guess its rather obvious to predict that tonight is the night that Locke takes over and makes a sacrifice to the Island(Ben)so I wont but the part im waiting for is the conversation between Locke and Richart,man that should be good,thoughts?

    -And in waiting to see who of the “losties” plucks out one of Radzinski’s eyeballs(correct me if im wrong but in the future he loses an eye right?)I put my money on Jules,I see her driving a hidden bic pen in his eyeball during his “questioning” of her and Sawyer.[/quote]
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Eyeball plucking seems more Sayid’s style, and we havnt seen him since he escaped. maybe he comes to the rescue?[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    It’s Mikail that loses an eye not Radzinski.

  37. wingman says:

    [quote comment="333514"]I love Lost. I would like to know more about Richard. Who, What, Where, When, Why, but I don’t want a whole show dedicated to him. There is to many questions unanswered for that. Richard needs a nice short flash back that explains the mastery before the opening credits.[/quote]

    Oh I totally disagree…A Richard flashback ep is probably an auto-top5 ep of alltime! I would literally staple my face to my plasma to not miss a second of that…

    Damn, probably won’t be back til the Sat-Sun, enjoy the episode tonight, I’ll savor it over the weekend…

    *Flash-Vanishes to that creepy music*

  38. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333503"]

    I also saw in an interview with NC that he swears he doesn’t wear any eye make up, he just has naturally beautiful eyes…ok, he didn’t say that last part, but they are pretty nice for not wearing any make up!![/quote]

    *** people ask me that all the time and I hate it! I’m like what kind of guy do you think I am.. ;-)

    [quote comment="333521"]I would be intrigued if Sayid turns out to be Jacob. Not likely, but I could see him as “tortured” leader[/quote]

    Yes!!!!! THat just makes me feel like rocking out.

    Besides I’ll back you on ANY theory you might have after that bit this morning! It deosn’t even have to be in written in english.

    [quote comment="333545"]Ah yes good ole “Patchy”.Thx,I think your right,got my season 1 bad guys mixed up.Patchy = glass eye.Radzinski = brains on hatch ceiling[/quote]
    ************
    HAHAHAHAHAHAH

  39. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333546"]FINALLY .. lost night. I hope this episode ans. more question then they leave. I have a question did they ever tell us how Claires mother was healed?[/quote]

    I don’t think they did tell us how Carole recovered. Maybe the island healed her! LOL

    : ) P

  40. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="333551"][quote comment="333514"]I love Lost. I would like to know more about Richard. Who, What, Where, When, Why, but I don’t want a whole show dedicated to him. There is to many questions unanswered for that. Richard needs a nice short flash back that explains the mastery before the opening credits.[/quote]

    Oh I totally disagree…A Richard flashback ep is probably an auto-top5 ep of alltime! I would literally staple my face to my plasma to not miss a second of that…

    Damn, probably won’t be back til the Sat-Sun, enjoy the episode tonight, I’ll savor it over the weekend…

    *Flash-Vanishes to that creepy music*[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    I agree. I bet he went 2 High School w/ King Tut and Moses, and that whole bunch : )

    So, a couple of times Ive heard people throwing it out there that they wish Vincent were Jacob.

    I just got through rewatching the Season 1 Episode 23, and it occured to me that:

    Vincent was given to Walt when his mother died.

    Walt gave Vincent to Shannon when he left on the boat, and said it was because Boone died.

    I remember Locke telling someone a story about himself or someone in his family having a Golden Retreiver that that someone beleived to have contained the soul of their dead relative.

    Does anyone else remember all of those things?

    I dont know that those facts prove or give clues to anything……….Im just saying.

  41. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333568"][quote comment="333551"][quote comment="333514"]I love Lost. I would like to know more about Richard. Who, What, Where, When, Why, but I don’t want a whole show dedicated to him. There is to many questions unanswered for that. Richard needs a nice short flash back that explains the mastery before the opening credits.[/quote]

    Oh I totally disagree…A Richard flashback ep is probably an auto-top5 ep of alltime! I would literally staple my face to my plasma to not miss a second of that…

    Damn, probably won’t be back til the Sat-Sun, enjoy the episode tonight, I’ll savor it over the weekend…

    *Flash-Vanishes to that creepy music*[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    I agree. I bet he went 2 High School w/ King Tut and Moses, and that whole bunch : )

    So, a couple of times Ive heard people throwing it out there that they wish Vincent were Jacob.

    I just got through rewatching the Season 1 Episode 23, and it occured to me that:

    Vincent was given to Walt when his mother died.

    Walt gave Vincent to Shannon when he left on the boat, and said it was because Boone died.

    I remember Locke telling someone a story about himself or someone in his family having a Golden Retreiver that that someone beleived to have contained the soul of their dead relative.

    Does anyone else remember all of those things?

    I dont know that those facts prove or give clues to anything……….Im just saying.[/quote]

    *******
    I don’t remember any of that. THANK YOU VERY MUCH you rock star you…… I’m all over that.

    I ENVY YOU EAST COASTERS RIGHT ABOUT NOW.

  42. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="333467"]I vote for Vincent as the leader. Only because I don’t think anyone guessed him yet.[/quote]
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Oh yhea, plus He’s a dead ringer for Ra (The Egyption), who is a dog, though be it not nesesarrilly a Golden Retreiver.

    And who has the initials RA? Thats right Ritchard Alpert.

    Has anyone every seen Vincent and Ritchard in the same scene?……..Me either :D

  43. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333569"][quote comment="333568"][quote comment="333551"][quote comment="333514"]I love Lost. I would like to know more about Richard. Who, What, Where, When, Why, but I don’t want a whole show dedicated to him. There is to many questions unanswered for that. Richard needs a nice short flash back that explains the mastery before the opening credits.[/quote]

    Oh I totally disagree…A Richard flashback ep is probably an auto-top5 ep of alltime! I would literally staple my face to my plasma to not miss a second of that…

    Damn, probably won’t be back til the Sat-Sun, enjoy the episode tonight, I’ll savor it over the weekend…

    *Flash-Vanishes to that creepy music*[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    I agree. I bet he went 2 High School w/ King Tut and Moses, and that whole bunch : )

    So, a couple of times Ive heard people throwing it out there that they wish Vincent were Jacob.

    I just got through rewatching the Season 1 Episode 23, and it occured to me that:

    Vincent was given to Walt when his mother died.

    Walt gave Vincent to Shannon when he left on the boat, and said it was because Boone died.

    I remember Locke telling someone a story about himself or someone in his family having a Golden Retreiver that that someone beleived to have contained the soul of their dead relative.

    Does anyone else remember all of those things?

    I dont know that those facts prove or give clues to anything……….Im just saying.[/quote]

    *******
    I don’t remember any of that.

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH you rock star you…… I’m all over that.

    I ENVY YOU EAST COASTERS RIGHT ABOUT NOW.[/quote]

    Mrs.Awesome : do you live on the east coast?

  44. Rumblestilskin says:

    OMG!!! LOST is on!!!

    I have to go. I live in Michigan (EST), and I apologize 4 my consstant misspelling of Ritchard (Richard)

  45. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="333572"]OMG!!! LOST is on!!!

    I have to go. I live in Michigan (EST), and I apologize 4 my consstant misspelling of Ritchard (Richard)[/quote]
    **********************
    can’t believe so many of you get to watch it right now…have to sign off for the next three hours…hope it is good…

  46. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333571"][quote comment="333569"][quote comment="333568"][quote comment="333551"][quote comment="333514"]I love Lost. I would like to know more about Richard. Who, What, Where, When, Why, but I don’t want a whole show dedicated to him. There is to many questions unanswered for that. Richard needs a nice short flash back that explains the mastery before the opening credits.[/quote]

    Oh I totally disagree…A Richard flashback ep is probably an auto-top5 ep of alltime! I would literally staple my face to my plasma to not miss a second of that…

    Damn, probably won’t be back til the Sat-Sun, enjoy the episode tonight, I’ll savor it over the weekend…

    *Flash-Vanishes to that creepy music*[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    I agree. I bet he went 2 High School w/ King Tut and Moses, and that whole bunch : )

    So, a couple of times Ive heard people throwing it out there that they wish Vincent were Jacob.

    I just got through rewatching the Season 1 Episode 23, and it occured to me that:

    Vincent was given to Walt when his mother died.

    Walt gave Vincent to Shannon when he left on the boat, and said it was because Boone died.

    I remember Locke telling someone a story about himself or someone in his family having a Golden Retreiver that that someone beleived to have contained the soul of their dead relative.

    Does anyone else remember all of those things?

    I dont know that those facts prove or give clues to anything……….Im just saying.[/quote]

    *******
    I don’t remember any of that.

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH you rock star you…… I’m all over that.

    I ENVY YOU EAST COASTERS RIGHT ABOUT NOW.[/quote]

    Mrs.Awesome :

    do you live on the east coast?[/quote]

    OMG!!!!!!!!!!! So one PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO DO.

    DO i go and see the advanced screening of Star Trek tonight in LA at 7:30 missing lost?

    Or stay put and give them away?

    The Universe is a hypocritical, divine dichotomy indeed. The Gods give me what I want…..But all at the same time. BASTARDS!!!! Where’s good ole faraday when you need him. imust free my consciousness from this machine and have a little talk
    with this fuckers just to make sure this NEVER happens again. NO MORE cursing from me today guys I promise. You’ve got to admit this last F bomd could not have been placed any better than here. I know SOME must feel my frustration on this one.

    besides curse words/words in general are relative. I and mindful in my attempts to drop fbombs in the most enthusiastic and positive way. i.e this choice can be properly described in only ONE way . say it with me now…..’This is F*&%ed up!’ Followed by a manly “FU&*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

  47. Hammer says:

    Locke is making sure WHH….awesome.

  48. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333579"]Locke is making sure WHH….awesome.[/quote]

    I’m in LA ;-(

    Ignore my last post… The STAR TREK line is insane out here.

    GIVING AWAY TIX NOW…I’ll wait

  49. kindly says:

    Love Dr. Chang questioning Hurley.

  50. Tasha says:

    Hmmmm….doesn’t look like Richard ever really knew much about Time Travel. I agree with someone from earlier. Out with Sawyer and in with RA. I’m throwing away my Sawyer pillowcase and getting a Richard Albert one!!!!

  51. Locke is Jacob says:

    wow

  52. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333585"]wow[/quote]
    +++++++++++++==
    Locke is NOT Jacob(IMO)……but yes…wow.

  53. helen says:

    sawyer still has juliet’s back – yeah!
    kate’s still a train wreck
    can’t believe they are really leaving the island!
    i love this show

  54. Hammer says:

    Ummm…uh oh….

  55. Tasha says:

    This does not look good…..

  56. DIana says:

    I called it at the beginning of the season. Sawyer back to his selfish ways. Jack had to take leadership to save everyone.

  57. Mr. $tuart says:

    I haven’t cussed since 2000, but tonight I said, “O sh**!” about 5 times tonight.

  58. Hammer says:

    OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?

  59. LostGuru says:

    WOW! What a GREAT episode!!!

    Now I really can’t wait to indulge myself in 2 hours of brand new LOST for the FINALE!!!

    BEST TV SERIES EVER!!

  60. Rumblestilskin says:

    As I predicted a long looooong time ago, Locke is going 2 kill Jacob………….Just kidding — didnt see that coming.

    But I did predict that they would not answer a bunch of questions tonight………only make sure that nobody in their right mind will miss next weeks ep : )

  61. Mrs.Awesome says:

    UMMMM.What??This episode gave us fifty-million more questions, but it kept me on my feet the whole time.

    so,Did John locke go too the future when we were firsted introduced to the plane and when we fosr say RA take the bullet out of his Leg,And why is John Locke goin to kill Jacob again? —EDITED— .IM LOST angin about lost my theories are all out the window lol its getting gooddd again

  62. Rita says:

    I think John meant “kill Jacob” in the sense that he plans to show everyone that THERE IS NO JACOB! That’s why he wanted everyone to go with. However, I think he will find that there really IS Jacob. Cant’ wait to find out!!

  63. LostGuru says:

    [quote comment="333595"]UMMMM.What??This episode gave us fifty-million more questions, but it kept me on my feet the whole time.

    so,Did John locke go too the future when we were firsted introduced to the plane and when we fosr say RA take the bullet out of his Leg,And why is John Locke goin to kill Jacob again? –EDITED– .IM LOST angin about lost my theories are all out the window lol its getting gooddd again[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Please do not spoil anything for next weeks episode. Many of us do not watch the previews.

    Thanks! :-)

    Till Later!

  64. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.

  65. Nick says:

    All: We are aware that the site is running really slowly tonight. We are having some problems with our hosting company … again … but we are working on a resolution. If your comments appear to be updating slowly or not at all, please be patient and give it a minute or so to avoid double posting. They will not disappear, but may be slightly delayed. Thanks everyone.

  66. Lost Horizon says:

    I thought tonight’s episode was just nuts. I feel like I need to sit down and make a diagram of what happened just to understand.

    Richard seems like he has no idea what is happening or has happened.

    I started to wonder if Jacob was like the wizard of Oz…like maybe it’s all pretend….they’re yanking everyone’s chain….including ours.

    When is the next season going to begin again…2012?

  67. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="333597"]I think John meant “kill Jacob” in the sense that he plans to show everyone that THERE IS NO JACOB! That’s why he wanted everyone to go with. However, I think he will find that there really IS Jacob. Cant’ wait to find out!![/quote]

    ===========
    I would have to agree with your 1st quote…

  68. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333595"]so,Did John locke go too the future when we were firsted introduced to the plane and when we fosr say RA take the bullet out of his Leg,And why is John Locke goin to kill Jacob again? XXXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXX XXX XXX XXXXX XXXX XX island for next week episode whats that about.[/quote]

    THIS IS A NO SPOILER SITE!

    With all your typos, I am not sure what you are saying, but when the island was flashing, one of the few times when we DIDN’T know when they were, they must have flashed to 2007 – which fits in with the outrigger scenes.

    : ) P

  69. Ronnie B. says:

    Everyone already kinda knew this but Ben said that Richard has been on the island for a very very long time.

  70. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Hmmmmm….plausible, makes sense.

  71. LuliB says:

    Something I’m thinking about….

    The last (and first?) time we saw Jacob was with Locke and Ben in the shack, when Ben was so shocked that Locke could hear Jacob that he then shot him, right? This was also the time Locke heard Jacob say “help me”.

    Since then, we’ve seen the shack and Christian and that one time Claire. I have always felt uneasy about the “help me” and then Christian doing all the talking. I don’t think Christian talks to Ben.

    It did feel that Ben had Jacob “captive” in that episode, when he said “help me”. And tonight, Ben repeated his line of, that’s not how it works. It seemed as though it works in a convoluted way in order for Ben to keep power.

    Christian claims to be speaking for Jacob. Is he? Where does Claire fit into this? The Claire manifestations off island to Kate also seem to be at odds with what Ben / Ellie are trying to accomplish. I have this nagging feeling something is “wrong.”

    I’m torn on Jacob existing or not.

    When Ben shot Locke in the dharma pit, he said something to the effect of, “let’s see if Jacob can save you now.” That could be sarcastic, as in, of course he can’t because he doesn’t exist. And then Walt shows up.

    And when Ben turns the FDW, he says, “I hope you’re happy Jacob!!!”

    Is it possible that who Ben listened to, Jacob, is not the same voice behind the new communications of the Christian, Claire, Walt manifestations?

    Sorry for such a long ramble. I’m trying to put my finger on the distinction and what’s bugging me.

  72. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333606"][quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Hmmmmm….plausible, makes sense.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    Oh wait!!! Walt had a dream that people wanted to hurt him…what if he does kill Jacob and all the Others get angry about it?

  73. Vaughn K says:

    The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?

  74. Mr. $tuart says:

    Does anyone else think that Illana and the Ajira folks might be there to protect Jacob? I keep thinking about when Locke talked to Walt and Walt said he had a dream about people wanting to hurt Locke.

  75. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333610"]Does anyone else think that Illana and the Ajira folks might be there to protect Jacob? I keep thinking about when Locke talked to Walt and Walt said he had a dream about people wanting to hurt Locke.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++==
    LOL, beat ya by two posts (slim margin)…but I think we have something here because they people on the plane didn’t do what Walt dreamed.

  76. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333608"][quote comment="333606"][quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Hmmmmm….plausible, makes sense.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    Oh wait!!! Walt had a dream that people wanted to hurt him…what if he does kill Jacob and all the Others get angry about it?[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    I was thinking about this too because we just all assume that the people from 316 were the people that wanted to hurt Locke but really it could be the others. He said he was on a beach surrounded by people. Well he is on the beach right now and surrounded by people. And if I know anything about Ben, he will probably make sure to alert everyone what Locke’s intentions are.

  77. JZ says:

    It seemed like Ben really had no idea what was going on. p.s. we haven’t seen harry potter ben since he was brought to the temple! WTF Mate?

    For some reason I’m still thinking Jack is Jacob. I have no theories to back that up except that Christian and Claire like hanging out there like the one big happy family that they are. I saw a couple of posts about Vincent being Jacob, and is very interesting. I feel like the Lost writers could make that connection somehow. Like maybe Jack IS Jacob and somehow gets re-incarnated into Vincent? Bizarre, don’t know if I like that very much.

    Glad Sayid is back but I don’t see his purpose for being back yet, so kind of a sad comeback. If it were to save Kate from getting shot, I say let her die. I don’t like Kate very much :P Maybe he can help detonate the bomb or set up a signal or some sort of technical help like he has in the past.

    I’m totally baffled by Richard’s character. I’m beginning to think he was cursed with immortality, or he did something to betray the island and then being force to surrender and his punishment was to live forever and never age. Kind of like to be the REAL protector of the island as pay back for whatever he messed up on. Continues with theme of alot of characters helping others carry out their destiny (ellie, widmore, abbadon)

    I’m going to stop here because my brain continues to rattle. I feel like I could fill in the blanks in my thoughts verbally, but I’m not very good with writing words LOL. Feel free to agree or rip to shreds :)

  78. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="333612"][quote comment="333608"][quote comment="333606"][quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Hmmmmm….plausible, makes sense.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    Oh wait!!! Walt had a dream that people wanted to hurt him…what if he does kill Jacob and all the Others get angry about it?[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    I was thinking about this too because we just all assume that the people from 316 were the people that wanted to hurt Locke but really it could be the others. He said he was on a beach surrounded by people. Well he is on the beach right now and surrounded by people. And if I know anything about Ben, he will probably make sure to alert everyone what Locke’s intentions are.[/quote]
    Ben have to help John, that’s what his (dead) daughter asked for…

  79. Missy says:

    Hmmm – seems that Richard and Ben are in cahoots still and are withholding information from John. Can’t blame John for wanting the whole group to come with them, a little insurace that no one tries to kill him this time he goes to “see Jacob.”

    Thinking back on Richards run-ins with young John, as a baby, as a child in a foster home – seems like John proved himself worthy to Richard each time, and Richard always refused to take him. He could have adopted miracle baby John Locke or brought him to the island after seeing his childhood drawings and asking him to choose the items he already owns – but he didn’t. Me thinks that Richard intentially left John out, and will continue to do so!

    Am I correct in guessing that Ellie is currently preggers with baby Daniel in this episode? If Jughead is detonated and theoretically allows 815 to land as scheduled, what does it mean for the resident islanders.

    Also, I’m guessing the tunnels is why the sonar fence couldn’t keep Richard out – and I suppose the hostiles “gave” Darma the land that was directly above the bomb.

  80. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]
    _______________–
    He’ll kill everyone in 1977 on the island by detonating the H bomb, but Little Jack and Little Kate and little everyone else are still alive off the island. They’ll grow up, get onto 316, and land safely in LA, because the incident would have never happened.

  81. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]

    Well it is possible that Richard THINKS they all die but the explosion sets off another purple sky event that sends them all to 2007.

    : ) P

  82. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333614"][quote comment="333612"][quote comment="333608"][quote comment="333606"][quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Hmmmmm….plausible, makes sense.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    Oh wait!!! Walt had a dream that people wanted to hurt him…what if he does kill Jacob and all the Others get angry about it?[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    I was thinking about this too because we just all assume that the people from 316 were the people that wanted to hurt Locke but really it could be the others. He said he was on a beach surrounded by people. Well he is on the beach right now and surrounded by people. And if I know anything about Ben, he will probably make sure to alert everyone what Locke’s intentions are.[/quote]
    Ben have to help John, that’s what his (dead) daughter asked for…[/quote]
    ___________________________________________

    She just said to follow him and not try to kill him again but he wouldnt be trying to kill him if he is just telling people what Locke plans to do

  83. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="333615"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]
    _______________–
    He’ll kill everyone in 1977 on the island by detonating the H bomb, but Little Jack and Little Kate and little everyone else are still alive off the island. They’ll grow up, get onto 316, and land safely in LA, because the incident would have never happened.[/quote]
    ___
    Sorry I meant 815, not 316

  84. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333618"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]

    Well it is possible that Richard THINKS they all die but the explosion sets off another purple sky event that sends them all to 2007.

    : ) P[/quote]

    __________

    This is what I think too!!!! Nice PJ…that’s awesome :)

  85. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="333615"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]
    _______________–
    He’ll kill everyone in 1977 on the island by detonating the H bomb, but Little Jack and Little Kate and little everyone else are still alive off the island. They’ll grow up, get onto 316, and land safely in LA, because the incident would have never happened.[/quote]
    ============
    not really good in bombs and stuff, but wouldn’t a 1950 hydrogen bomb be sufficient enough to blow any trace of human living off an island? This would lead me to think jughead won’t blow…!

  86. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333618"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]

    Well it is possible that Richard THINKS they all die but the explosion sets off another purple sky event that sends them all to 2007.

    : ) P[/quote]
    _______________________________________

    Yea thats a good point but we kinda know that something crazy is going to happen next week becuase there is still a whole season left and if they just flash back to 2007, what would they be doing all season? The only thing I can think of is that they flash back to 2007 and than have to stop the war from happening or win the war…but I dont think they can have a whole season composed of that.

  87. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333614"][quote comment="333612"][quote comment="333608"][quote comment="333606"][quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]/quote]
    ________________________________________
    .[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    [/quote]
    _________________________________________

    I was thinking about this too because we just all assume that the people from 316 were the people that wanted to hurt Locke but really it could be the others. He said he was on a beach surrounded by people. Well he is on the beach right now and surrounded by people. And if I know anything about Ben, he will probably make sure to alert everyone what Locke’s intentions are.[/quote]
    ______________
    Ben have to help John, that’s what his (dead) daughter asked for…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    He doesn’t HAVE to, maybe he does betray Locke and gets the Smokey treament…he may be the major character to get whacked.

  88. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="333623"][quote comment="333614"][quote comment="333612"][quote comment="333608"][quote comment="333606"][quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]/quote]
    ________________________________________
    .[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    [/quote]
    _________________________________________

    I was thinking about this too because we just all assume that the people from 316 were the people that wanted to hurt Locke but really it could be the others. He said he was on a beach surrounded by people. Well he is on the beach right now and surrounded by people. And if I know anything about Ben, he will probably make sure to alert everyone what Locke’s intentions are.[/quote]
    ______________
    Ben have to help John, that’s what his (dead) daughter asked for…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    He doesn’t HAVE to, maybe he does betray Locke and gets the Smokey treament…he may be the major character to get whacked.[/quote]
    ========
    My bet would be that the major character do die is Faraday.

  89. Hammer says:

    Rumor has it that a MAJOR character and a MAJORISH character were to die.

    majorish = Dan (definately dead)
    major = Ben (maybe)

  90. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333625"]Rumor has it that a MAJOR character and a MAJORISH character were to die.

    majorish = Dan (definately dead)
    major = Ben (maybe)[/quote]
    ___________________________________

    Yea I wouldnt call Dan a major character I mean he was a big part of the show but really only for last season and some of this season so when they say MAJOR character, I think of someone that has been around for like the whole show. Honestly I am getting tired of Kate it just seems like she has no point to be around anymore.

  91. Whatheheck says:

    One question: it seems to John that the island is now whispering stuff to him, telling him what to do and where to go. This happened when he crashed with Ajira air and resurrected… do you think it’s because he has been there before or he has trully found his destiny and is controlling it?

  92. Murphey says:

    Jack seems to think Eloise sent them back to change things. She seems to be following WHH. She remembers the bomb going off or not and the Losties being there. I think she thinks the past can’t be changed. She seemed sad to be sending Dan to this death.

  93. MacGyver says:

    LOL… Lost is officially destroying my mind.

    I managed to get to 55 without having even watched it yet(WHY? The other page on my screen wouldn’t load and the ADHD kicked in)

    Then I saw this comment and bailed immediately and damn near knocked over the monitor:

    [quote comment="333590"]This does not look good…..[/quote]

    I just had to come back and thank you for the digit slap across my face, saving me from eternal retardation. You gave me something to do for an hour…..figure out how I managed to even get to #55!

  94. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333625"]Rumor has it that a MAJOR character and a MAJORISH character were to die.

    majorish = Dan (definately dead)
    major = Ben (maybe)[/quote]

    I see what you’re saying, Hammer, but were I in D&C’s shoes, I’d milk my contract with the best actor on TV for the next nineteen hours. My money says Emerson stays even if Ben dies (but I don’t think he will).

    : ) P

  95. Whatheheck says:

    [quote comment="333629"]Jack seems to think Eloise sent them back to change things. She seems to be following WHH. She remembers the bomb going off or not and the Losties being there. I think she thinks the past can’t be changed. She seemed sad to be sending Dan to this death.[/quote]
    ========
    to me, that’s a proof she thinks past can be changed…

  96. Murphey says:

    It seems to me Jacob must be a character who has died or will die. The way the shack just appears would have to be that or that the entire thing is transported through time. The people we’ve seen in the shack are Christian, dead, and Claire, might be dead.

  97. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333631"][quote comment="333625"]Rumor has it that a MAJOR character and a MAJORISH character were to die.

    majorish = Dan (definately dead)
    major = Ben (maybe)[/quote]

    I see what you’re saying, Hammer, but were I in D&C’s shoes, I’d milk my contract with the best actor on TV for the next nineteen hours. My money says Emerson stays even if Ben dies (but I don’t think he will).

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I envision Ben getting killed by Smokey, then becoming involved in another way…ala Christian Sheppard, or maybe even immortal RA?

  98. Steve says:

    [quote comment="333629"]Jack seems to think Eloise sent them back to change things. She seems to be following WHH. She remembers the bomb going off or not and the Losties being there. I think she thinks the past can’t be changed. She seemed sad to be sending Dan to this death.[/quote]

    _______________________________

    Yes, I had that feeling as well. See Comment 19 in this thread. –> This time the plan Daniel had does not die with him.

  99. Tasha says:

    I think that John is going to KILL Jacob but that it is what he is supposed to do. Then again, maybe John is Jacob and doesn’t even realize it.

    This episode IS confusing and in the first 5 minutes I was telling my husband to get with it because he was asking too many questions. Then I got totally confused when Richard said he remembered Jack and them from 1977 which makes me think they always went back and it is some type of loop. Then he started yelling at me to keep up! I have so much running thru my mind but nothing that nobody has already mentioned.

    I think Ellie might be pregnant. I noticed her hold her stomach when she was talking to Charles so it may have been to let us know that, OR NOT.

    What I don’t get is how Ellie will get off the island…..Oh who am I kidding, I don’t get alot of it. I need to watch it again:)

  100. Duke says:

    Do we know when it was that Locke got shot in the leg by Ethan? I seem to remember them time travelling at that point. Ethan was pointing the gun at Locke about to fire again then a flash. But I can not figure out WHEN they were. Possibly in the future?

  101. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    How about the ship in a bottle? Black Rock stuck in a “bottle”(snow globe)?

  102. katesFriend says:

    Just a note, if somehow Jack et al do manage to somehow prevent 815 from crashing, this will do nothing to help Juliet – she will still be stuck on the island, waiting for Ben to let her go. Sucks for Juliet!

  103. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="333635"][quote comment="333629"]Jack seems to think Eloise sent them back to change things. She seems to be following WHH. She remembers the bomb going off or not and the Losties being there. I think she thinks the past can’t be changed. She seemed sad to be sending Dan to this death.[/quote]

    _______________________________

    Yes, I had that feeling as well. See Comment 19 in this thread. –> This time the plan Daniel had does not die with him.[/quote]

    _________________________________
    Good post, Steve! But, I don’t think anything has changed this time around. I think the Losties were always there in the 70s when Dan died. I think that is why she sent them back to the island because she knows they went back. I think when Eloise is talking about not knowing what will happen, she means the war in 2007. She always knew about everything up to this point because she experienced it in the 70’s the same way. If they set off the bomb and it causes a purple flash to bring the Losties back to 2007, then that is exactly what happened before. Obviously, the bomb going off doesn’t destroy the island maybe because of some weird interaction with the magnetic properties of the island.

  104. DocH says:

    [quote comment="333616"]
    Also, I’m guessing the tunnels is why the sonar fence couldn’t keep Richard out – and I suppose the hostiles “gave” Darma the land that was directly above the bomb.
    [/quote]
    But Richard walked into the Barracks dry and dapper (when he met Sawyer), not wet fromthe swim. My guess is that a good set of earplugs could get him through the sonic fence unphased. Or the fence does not affect ‘immortals’.

    Good call on the Barracks location – location – location. I’m sure Richard Alpert was the realtor — “Fine… if we can’t get you to leave, then you can live in that field over there.” I guess there wasn’t a full disclosure real estate law in effect on the island back in the ’70s.

  105. Mr. $tuart says:

    I totally disagree with the people that say Kate needs to die. She’s total eye candy and even as good as this show is, I still need eye candy. I will say that if she’s gonna keep wearing that Dharma jumpsuit, then I guess she can go.

  106. MacGyver says:

    Offending comment removed – ed.

    ANDRE YOU NEED TO GET THE FUCK OFF THIS SITE IMMEDIATELY.

    I can’t believe that just happened.

  107. LostJunkie says:

    Relax, that guy is full of shit, the fucking actors themselves don’t know the outcome of the show (except for Matthew Fox), and we’re supposed to believe that his sister knows? Give me a fucking break.

    Sorry for the language, but sometimes suggestive language is needed for emphasis.

  108. LostJunkie says:

    About Kate…I do agree that she is annoying and adding nothing to the show right now, except to be upset at her character’s lameness.

    And no, eye candy isn’t enough LOL.

  109. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333648"]Relax, that guy is full of shit, the fucking actors themselves don’t know the outcome of the show (except for Matthew Fox), and we’re supposed to believe that his sister knows? Give me a fucking break.

    Sorry for the language, but sometimes suggestive language is needed for emphasis.[/quote]

    ******
    Ok….I feel better now

  110. bigwilly says:

    Kate still has a purpose on the show, to find Claire.

  111. Rita says:

    A couple of first-thing-in-the-morning thoughts:
    1. If someone just told me that he saw my husband and friends die, I WOULD HAVE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, like what happened, etc. So it is possible that he just ASSUMED they died, but really they flashed.

    2. Since when does Sawyer “always have a plan” as stated by Hurley?

    3. It was interesting that Kate left Jack soon after he told her that he wanted a do-over for the last 3+ years, so they never happened (“enough of it was misery”) – so classic Kate,complete with tears in her eyes, went running back to Sawyer. Juliet isn’t very happy about THIS turn of events! Not sure that Sawyer was happy either.

  112. Rita says:

    [quote comment="333641"][quote comment="333616"]
    [/quote]
    But Richard walked into the Barracks dry and dapper (when he met Sawyer), not wet fromthe swim. My guess is that a good set of earplugs could get him through the sonic fence unphased. Or the fence does not affect ‘immortals’.
    [/quote]
    ____________________________________
    They said they would get Jughead out “the same way they took it in” – not through the pool, so there are likely other entrances to the tunnels. Jughead was on a wheeled cart. Maybe they used the pool entrance to get in this time because it was the closest to where they were at the moment.

  113. Mary Anne says:

    Does anyone think Walt is Jacob???

  114. flgrl says:

    [quote comment="333666"][quote comment="333641"][quote comment="333616"]
    [/quote]
    But Richard walked into the Barracks dry and dapper (when he met Sawyer), not wet fromthe swim. My guess is that a good set of earplugs could get him through the sonic fence unphased. Or the fence does not affect ‘immortals’.
    [/quote]
    ____________________________________
    They said they would get Jughead out “the same way they took it in” – not through the pool, so there are likely other entrances to the tunnels. Jughead was on a wheeled cart. Maybe they used the pool entrance to get in this time because it was the closest to where they were at the moment.[/quote]

    ****************

    My guess is similar to the same way that Ben and Locke got in (except for the falling into the hole part). There must’ve been an entrance there at some point, right?

  115. steve says:

    [quote comment="333640"][quote comment="333635"][quote comment="333629"]Jack seems to think Eloise sent them back to change things. She seems to be following WHH. She remembers the bomb going off or not and the Losties being there. I think she thinks the past can’t be changed. She seemed sad to be sending Dan to this death.[/quote]

    _______________________________

    Yes, I had that feeling as well. See Comment 19 in this thread. –> This time the plan Daniel had does not die with him.[/quote]

    _________________________________
    Good post, Steve! But, I don’t think anything has changed this time around. I think the Losties were always there in the 70s when Dan died. I think that is why she sent them back to the island because she knows they went back. I think when Eloise is talking about not knowing what will happen, she means the war in 2007. She always knew about everything up to this point because she experienced it in the 70’s the same way. If they set off the bomb and it causes a purple flash to bring the Losties back to 2007, then that is exactly what happened before. Obviously, the bomb going off doesn’t destroy the island maybe because of some weird interaction with the magnetic properties of the island.[/quote]

    _____________________________

    Could be. I am going stick with my idea for now. The weird part about the WHH scenario, for me, was trying to reconcile why Charles Widmore would show up at the hospital in Long Beach to find out how Desmond was doing. If WHH he should have known the outcome, and would have saved himself a trip.

    As for the following statement, I absolutely agree!!!!
    “the bomb going off doesn’t destroy the island maybe because of some weird interaction with the magnetic properties of the island.”

    I believe that daniel figured that the H-Bomb blast explosion would be absorbed by the implosion of the magnetic anomally, and forces would cancel each other out. IMO exposing the anomally is something like taking the lid of of a pot that holds a localized singularity (A black hole) If the Bomb Blast is contained within the limits of the event horizon of the singularity, the forces are contained in the bubble and the island goes on. If not, then God help us all.

  116. Tasha says:

    Under the Barracks is where Smokey is summoned from. Wonder if there is a connection between IT and the bomb.

  117. steve says:

    [quote comment="333664"]Kate still has a purpose on the show, to find Claire.[/quote]

    I do not believe that Kate went back to find Claire. I still she is fixated on redemption for causing the death of her childhood friend, and is back on the island to get the toy plane she left behind. It would not be the firsat time she has used others and done dramatic things to get that toy back. Yes! I think she is that shallow.

  118. steve says:

    [quote comment="333683"][quote comment="333664"]Kate still has a purpose on the show, to find Claire.[/quote]

    I do not believe that Kate went back to find Claire. I still she is fixated on redemption for causing the death of her childhood friend, and is back on the island to get the toy plane she left behind. It would not be the firsat time she has used others and done dramatic things to get that toy back. Yes! I think she is that shallow.[/quote]

    ***************************
    Another thing about Kate. Where does Kate get off berating Jake and Sayid about right and wrong in shooting kids and detonating bombs? Kate Blows up her Step Father, Causes the death of her childhood friend while using him to run from the police, Cons then shoots the guy she used to get the toy plane out of safety deposit box …

  119. Tasha says:

    I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.

  120. JenA says:

    [quote comment="333639"]Just a note, if somehow Jack et al do manage to somehow prevent 815 from crashing, this will do nothing to help Juliet – she will still be stuck on the island, waiting for Ben to let her go. Sucks for Juliet![/quote]

    After last week’s episode I made a list of what would’ve happened if the plane landed as it was supposed to.

    1)Kate would’ve been tried for murder, probably spending the rest of her life in jail.

    I thought she was going to mention this in last night’s scene with Jack.

    2)Claire would’ve given up Aaron for adoption
    3)Charlie would be a heroin addict
    4)Desmond would still be pushing the button
    5)Sayid has a good outcome, probably meet up with his girlfriend and live happily ever after
    6)Locke would’ve still been a looser in a wheel chair
    7)Saywer probably would’ve been caught and tried for the murder of that guy in Austrailia.
    8)Michael and Walt would’ve had a good outcome too, I suppose. Live happily as father and son.
    9)Sun would’ve left Jin. But live as an illegal alien trying to make her way in the US. We don’t know she had contacts in US, do we. She would’ve at the very least never made up with Jin and had their daughter.

    So some good outcomes and some bad.

  121. Locke is Jacob says:

    Great Episode, a few thoughts…

    1)Am I the only one just waiting for Locke to have his faith tested again? Season after season he has had very volatile points of belief and disbelief in “the island”. I think back to the end of the 3rd Season, when Jack calls the freighter, he wink’s at Ben and from that point on.. it’s a downward spiral. Might that be the faith of Mr. John Locke to come in the second half of this series???

    2)I like the idea of the losties being “flashed” back to 2007. Thinking about the pilot episode, we know Jack wakes up in the middle of the jungle, where do we initially see our other “back to the future” losties (Kate, Hurley, Sayid). Is it possible the flash will put them back in 2004 when 815 went down???

    3)When is G-Pa Ray coming back into the picture…what are the chances he is the guy who is twice Locke’s moms age when she has John…Family Connection to the Shepherd Bloodline???

    So many questions…..thoughts?

  122. K.C. says:

    I think we don’t see Jacob and the cabin moves around because he is flashing around in time like the losties were. That’s why he said “Help me.” Locke has to kill him to save him the same way he himself had to die to fulfill his destiny.

  123. Duke says:

    [quote comment="333640"][quote comment="333635"][quote comment="333629"]Jack seems to think Eloise sent them back to change things. She seems to be following WHH. She remembers the bomb going off or not and the Losties being there. I think she thinks the past can’t be changed. She seemed sad to be sending Dan to this death.[/quote]

    _______________________________

    Yes, I had that feeling as well. See Comment 19 in this thread. –> This time the plan Daniel had does not die with him.[/quote]

    _________________________________
    Good post, Steve! But, I don’t think anything has changed this time around. I think the Losties were always there in the 70s when Dan died. I think that is why she sent them back to the island because she knows they went back. I think when Eloise is talking about not knowing what will happen, she means the war in 2007. She always knew about everything up to this point because she experienced it in the 70’s the same way. If they set off the bomb and it causes a purple flash to bring the Losties back to 2007, then that is exactly what happened before. Obviously, the bomb going off doesn’t destroy the island maybe because of some weird interaction with the magnetic properties of the island.[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Why does everyone believe that a purple sky event translates to time travel? We only saw the purple sky once when Desmond turned the fail safe key with the four 815ers being held on the dock. The time travelling light was a bright white light. I do not understand the connection.

  124. Duke says:

    [quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Daniel got off the island. Why wouldn’t you think others could as well? He probably actually left on the sub which was the way he returned.

  125. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333687"]Great Episode, a few thoughts…

    1)Am I the only one just waiting for Locke to have his faith tested again? Season after season he has had very volatile points of belief and disbelief in “the island”. I think back to the end of the 3rd Season, when Jack calls the freighter, he wink’s at Ben and from that point on.. it’s a downward spiral. Might that be the faith of Mr. John Locke to come in the second half of this series???

    2)I like the idea of the losties being “flashed” back to 2007. Thinking about the pilot episode, we know Jack wakes up in the middle of the jungle, where do we initially see our other “back to the future” losties (Kate, Hurley, Sayid). Is it possible the flash will put them back in 2004 when 815 went down???

    3)When is G-Pa Ray coming back into the picture…what are the chances he is the guy who is twice Locke’s moms age when she has John…Family Connection to the Shepherd Bloodline???

    So many questions…..thoughts?[/quote]
    ************

    #3 is very interesting

  126. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333687"]Great Episode, a few thoughts…

    So many questions…..thoughts?[/quote]

    _________________________

    I was really excited that LOCKE found his purpose and I was excited how he was going to be the leader now. AFter he said he would kill Jacob last night, I don’t know about him anymore. I mean he can’t kill Jacob. All this time I have thought of Jacob as a God and I am starting to believe in him. Seriously, I have a guild and Jacob is supposed to be the almighty LEADER. So either John is now evil and is going to kill my leader, or he is going to “help” Jacob. I am leaning toward helping. It just doesn'[t make any sense for him to destroy him and I don’t believe they are all hiking to nothing to prove Jacob doesn’t exist. I’m hoping it’s Grampa-Ray.

  127. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333690"][quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Daniel got off the island. Why wouldn’t you think others could as well? He probably actually left on the sub which was the way he returned.[/quote]
    ____________________________

    I think maybe Tasha is referring to the course correction the island does and kind of doesn’t let them leave…is that right Tasha?

  128. JZ says:

    There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.

  129. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    When Ethan shot Locke it was in the past before the 815 flight even crashed because the beach craft was still up on the cliff (Locke was climbing up to it) and then Locke flashed again before ethan shot him to the time period where the beachcraft was on the ground and Richard came out to help him. 2 different flashes so nothing is amiss there. Also, we saw sawyer exist at the same time as himself when he saw claire having the baby and Locke before when he saw the hatch light go up into the sky and avoided going that way to not run into himself. This was just the first time someone actually saw themselves…I believe.

  130. Ra says:

    ok…I want on the record for this…i havent read this whole blog so I dont know if anyone has said this yet so sorry in advance…but I think I get it now…haha..The statue is Tarwet…and its in the future…everything gets saved at the end and they go back to pushing the button…but they took Claire…the only person to have a baby on the island while the numbers where still being pushed…because in the end..or near future..everything works..and everyone succeeds..but the Island needed her…claire….thoughts

  131. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333700"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    When Ethan shot Locke it was in the past before the 815 flight even crashed because the beach craft was still up on the cliff (Locke was climbing up to it) and then Locke flashed again before ethan shot him to the time period where the beachcraft was on the ground and Richard came out to help him. 2 different flashes so nothing is amiss there. Also, we saw sawyer exist at the same time as himself when he saw claire having the baby and Locke before when he saw the hatch light go up into the sky and avoided going that way to not run into himself. This was just the first time someone actually saw themselves…I believe.[/quote]
    ******************

    Awesome that’s kind of what I wanted answered as far as Ethan shot him and then he flashed to where they are now and still had the wound and Alpert “found him”…perfect thank you!

  132. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333700"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    When Ethan shot Locke it was in the past before the 815 flight even crashed because the beach craft was still up on the cliff (Locke was climbing up to it) and then Locke flashed again before ethan shot him to the time period where the beachcraft was on the ground and Richard came out to help him. 2 different flashes so nothing is amiss there. Also, we saw sawyer exist at the same time as himself when he saw claire having the baby and Locke before when he saw the hatch light go up into the sky and avoided going that way to not run into himself. This was just the first time someone actually saw themselves…I believe.[/quote]
    ******************

    Awesome that’s kind of what I wanted answered as far as Ethan shot him and then he flashed to where they are now and still had the wound and Alpert “found him”…perfect thank you!

    But I noticed there was no help to #2 LOL….what the heck is going to happen?!?!? hahahahahaha….I feel like maybe that neutralize theory may be the case

  133. LINS says:

    Well it looked to me, when Ellie was getting ready to leave to show Jack and Kate the bomb and she was talking to Charles, he seemed worried about her and the way they were standing made it look like she was pregnant then. Of course, that would only make him 30 in 2007, but I suppose if he’s such a genius it could work?

    I thought it was nice that we learned that she did remember him from the 1954. And we learned that Miles saw his dad making him mom leave with him and he finally understood why. Great episode!

    Oh yeah, and the scene with the sub going under the water was totally fake, that was funny!

  134. steve says:

    [quote comment="333690"][quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Daniel got off the island. Why wouldn’t you think others could as well? He probably actually left on the sub which was the way he returned.[/quote]

    _________________________________

    I agree. Miles said (The Variable) “What the hell are you doing back here, Dan? Once you left for Ann Arbor, I figured you’d gotten rich, invented the DVD or something.”

  135. LINS says:

    [quote comment="333634"][quote comment="333631"][quote comment="333625"]Rumor has it that a MAJOR character and a MAJORISH character were to die.

    majorish = Dan (definately dead)
    major = Ben (maybe)[/quote]

    I see what you’re saying, Hammer, but were I in D&C’s shoes, I’d milk my contract with the best actor on TV for the next nineteen hours. My money says Emerson stays even if Ben dies (but I don’t think he will).

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I envision Ben getting killed by Smokey, then becoming involved in another way…ala Christian Sheppard, or maybe even immortal RA?[/quote]

    *************************
    My money’s on Sawyer, Ben is too important and I think he’ll play a big part in the “war”…don’t know why I think it’s Sawyer, just a guess!

  136. steve says:

    [quote comment="333706"]Well it looked to me, when Ellie was getting ready to leave to show Jack and Kate the bomb and she was talking to Charles, he seemed worried about her and the way they were standing made it look like she was pregnant then. Of course, that would only make him 30 in 2007, but I suppose if he’s such a genius it could work?

    I thought it was nice that we learned that she did remember him from the 1954. And we learned that Miles saw his dad making him mom leave with him and he finally understood why. Great episode!

    Oh yeah, and the scene with the sub going under the water was totally fake, that was funny![/quote]

    Eloise is pregnant in the scene. When Richard is taking care Jack and Kates Ropes, you can here Charles tell Eloise that she should not go in her condition. Charles then puts his hand on Eloise’s stomach.

  137. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333705"][quote comment="333700"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    When Ethan shot Locke it was in the past before the 815 flight even crashed because the beach craft was still up on the cliff (Locke was climbing up to it) and then Locke flashed again before ethan shot him to the time period where the beachcraft was on the ground and Richard came out to help him. 2 different flashes so nothing is amiss there. Also, we saw sawyer exist at the same time as himself when he saw claire having the baby and Locke before when he saw the hatch light go up into the sky and avoided going that way to not run into himself. This was just the first time someone actually saw themselves…I believe.[/quote]
    ******************

    Awesome that’s kind of what I wanted answered as far as Ethan shot him and then he flashed to where they are now and still had the wound and Alpert “found him”…perfect thank you!

    But I noticed there was no help to #2 LOL….what the heck is going to happen?!?!? hahahahahaha….I feel like maybe that neutralize theory may be the case[/quote]
    __________________________________________

    My theory on that is that the ‘incident’ still happens because WHH is still true and I dont think that the h-bomb goes off because I am pretty sure that is the fail safe for the hatch…think about it a h-bomb blowing up underground would keep the explosion to a min. and they said the hatch imploded but that would be because the h-bomb just made a huge hole in the ground because it under the hatch

    I think the incident might not be as big of a catastrophe as Dan believed, they may find a way to limit it…like you said Charles does not get exiled for a while. I think we will see Chang die because he will be at the site when the incident happens. Just my theories feel free to comment.

  138. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333694"][quote comment="333690"][quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Daniel got off the island. Why wouldn’t you think others could as well? He probably actually left on the sub which was the way he returned.[/quote]
    ____________________________

    I think maybe Tasha is referring to the course correction the island does and kind of doesn’t let them leave…is that right Tasha?[/quote]
    _____________________________

    Yeah something like that. Honestly, I just hope they don’t end up trying to get back to the island again. They flashed back to this time for a reason unless Kate’s reason was to save little Ben. I mean if she was just going get kicked off she just as well stayed in time with Sun and them in present time. I also can’t see Kate not being on the island in the finale, running around like a monkey. Of course I am also expecting to see Walt and Penny next week so guess we will have to see.

    Yes Duke. Dan most likely left on the sub and we didn’t see him for awhile. Then he came back and died. Him not being seen for awhile is my point also. Kate is always involved in everyting. Yes she is annoying to me since S3 but her character is important. No way the two Diva’s of the island have just left on a sub, or there goes everyone’s “Eye Candy.” I take that back, they DID leave, just don’t think they will get very far.

  139. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333711"]
    Eloise is pregnant in the scene. When Richard is taking care Jack and Kates Ropes, you can here Charles tell Eloise that she should not go in her condition. Charles then puts his hand on Eloise’s stomach.[/quote]

    If that is true, then I say it just can’t be Faraday in utero.

    We know that Faraday was a professor at Oxford in 1996. Even if he got his doctorate that SAME YEAR (which I doubt), that would mean that if he had been born (later) in 1977, he would have been 19 with a *doctorate* in physics at Oxford. That’s EIGHT years of college. Even if he did it in six, that would have put him graduating from high school at 13. I know he was the youngest doctor to graduate from Oxford, but still. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not to me.

    My money is on little Danny being somewhere in the world in 1977. Maybe even in England with his step- or half- sister Penny.

    : ) P

  140. Lar says:

    [quote comment="333714"][quote comment="333705"][quote comment="333700"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    When Ethan shot Locke it was in the past before the 815 flight even crashed because the beach craft was still up on the cliff (Locke was climbing up to it) and then Locke flashed again before ethan shot him to the time period where the beachcraft was on the ground and Richard came out to help him. 2 different flashes so nothing is amiss there. Also, we saw sawyer exist at the same time as himself when he saw claire having the baby and Locke before when he saw the hatch light go up into the sky and avoided going that way to not run into himself. This was just the first time someone actually saw themselves…I believe.[/quote]
    ******************

    Awesome that’s kind of what I wanted answered as far as Ethan shot him and then he flashed to where they are now and still had the wound and Alpert “found him”…perfect thank you!

    But I noticed there was no help to #2 LOL….what the heck is going to happen?!?!? hahahahahaha….I feel like maybe that neutralize theory may be the case[/quote]
    __________________________________________

    My theory on that is that the ‘incident’ still happens because WHH is still true and I dont think that the h-bomb goes off because I am pretty sure that is the fail safe for the hatch…think about it a h-bomb blowing up underground would keep the explosion to a min. and they said the hatch imploded but that would be because the h-bomb just made a huge hole in the ground because it under the hatch

    I think the incident might not be as big of a catastrophe as Dan believed, they may find a way to limit it…like you said Charles does not get exiled for a while. I think we will see Chang die because he will be at the site when the incident happens. Just my theories feel free to comment.[/quote]
    The only problem I see with this is that Jughead is under Dharmaville, not the hatch

  141. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333714"][quote comment="333705"][quote comment="333700"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    When Ethan shot Locke it was in the past before the 815 flight even crashed because the beach craft was still up on the cliff (Locke was climbing up to it) and then Locke flashed again before ethan shot him to the time period where the beachcraft was on the ground and Richard came out to help him. 2 different flashes so nothing is amiss there. Also, we saw sawyer exist at the same time as himself when he saw claire having the baby and Locke before when he saw the hatch light go up into the sky and avoided going that way to not run into himself. This was just the first time someone actually saw themselves…I believe.[/quote]
    ******************

    Awesome that’s kind of what I wanted answered as far as Ethan shot him and then he flashed to where they are now and still had the wound and Alpert “found him”…perfect thank you!

    But I noticed there was no help to #2 LOL….what the heck is going to happen?!?!? hahahahahaha….I feel like maybe that neutralize theory may be the case[/quote]
    __________________________________________

    My theory on that is that the ‘incident’ still happens because WHH is still true and I dont think that the h-bomb goes off because I am pretty sure that is the fail safe for the hatch…think about it a h-bomb blowing up underground would keep the explosion to a min. and they said the hatch imploded but that would be because the h-bomb just made a huge hole in the ground because it under the hatch

    I think the incident might not be as big of a catastrophe as Dan believed, they may find a way to limit it…like you said Charles does not get exiled for a while. I think we will see Chang die because he will be at the site when the incident happens. Just my theories feel free to comment.[/quote]
    ____________________

    Definitely thinks Chang dies. with you on that.

    But the H-Bomb is in the tunnel not at the hatch. But I like that the fail safe key might linked to the h-bomb somehow…that makes sense in my head

  142. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333717"]
    The only problem I see with this is that Jughead is under Dharmaville, not the hatch[/quote]
    ________________________________

    Right but I think they prob find a way to move it to the swan location…I just think there is too much evidence to show that the hydrogen bomb was the fail safe

  143. steve says:

    [quote comment="333716"][quote comment="333711"]
    Eloise is pregnant in the scene. When Richard is taking care Jack and Kates Ropes, you can here Charles tell Eloise that she should not go in her condition. Charles then puts his hand on Eloise’s stomach.[/quote]

    If that is true, then I say it just can’t be Faraday in utero.

    We know that Faraday was a professor at Oxford in 1996. Even if he got his doctorate that SAME YEAR (which I doubt), that would mean that if he had been born (later) in 1977, he would have been 19 with a *doctorate* in physics at Oxford. That’s EIGHT years of college. Even if he did it in six, that would have put him graduating from high school at 13. I know he was the youngest doctor to graduate from Oxford, but still. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not to me.

    My money is on little Danny being somewhere in the world in 1977. Maybe even in England with his step- or half- sister Penny.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ________________

    That is very possible, but I only said Eloise was pregnant in that scene, I never said who the child was.

  144. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333719"][quote comment="333717"]
    The only problem I see with this is that Jughead is under Dharmaville, not the hatch[/quote]
    ________________________________

    Right but I think they prob find a way to move it to the swan location…I just think there is too much evidence to show that the hydrogen bomb was the fail safe[/quote]
    _______________________________________

    Plus Richard said they got it in a different way so they can def get it out and in the hatch there was that whole part that was cemented in and inaccesible which also says to me that it was a way to minimize the jughead blast if it was ever going to go off

  145. Dennis says:

    [quote comment="333719"][quote comment="333717"]
    The only problem I see with this is that Jughead is under Dharmaville, not the hatch[/quote]
    ________________________________

    Right but I think they prob find a way to move it to the swan location…I just think there is too much evidence to show that the hydrogen bomb was the fail safe[/quote]
    —————-

    remember though, at dinner with eloise, faraday says he’s the youngest person to get a doctorate in the school’s history, or something along those lines. so it’s entirely possible…

  146. Dennis says:

    aww shucks, i quoted the wrong comment. i meant for the one above, abotu faraday in the womb.

  147. Tasha says:

    I also was wondering what thoughts were on Ben being in the scene where Locke tells Richard to go talk to Locke with the bullet hole. Ben flashes 9 months ahead, and is in the desert. So does this mean that he was really on the island? Was he there with Locke and Richard the first time around? Another confusing point for me, if someone will please explain?

  148. steve says:

    [quote comment="333717"]

    But I noticed there was no help to #2 LOL….what the heck is going to happen?!?!? hahahahahaha….I feel like maybe that neutralize theory may be the case
    __________________________________________

    My theory on that is that the ‘incident’ still happens because WHH is still true and I dont think that the h-bomb goes off because I am pretty sure that is the fail safe for the hatch…think about it a h-bomb blowing up underground would keep the explosion to a min. and they said the hatch imploded but that would be because the h-bomb just made a huge hole in the ground because it under the hatch

    I think the incident might not be as big of a catastrophe as Dan believed, they may find a way to limit it…like you said Charles does not get exiled for a while. I think we will see Chang die because he will be at the site when the incident happens. Just my theories feel free to comment.
    The only problem I see with this is that Jughead is under Dharmaville, not the hatch[/quote]

    **********************************************
    What you have described is WHH. What if that is not right, and things have changed? If they are able to detonate, there will be no need for the fail safe.

    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.

    They can get Jughead out by taking the tunnels – remember the hatch map! they do not need to go through the village to get to the location of the swan site.

  149. Dennis says:

    A few thoughts:

    -When ben commits the purge, he’s a part of the dharma initiative, wearing a dharma suit, and taking the van out with his father. so he either comes back to the initiative(under a different identity, and his father doesnt recognize him?), or something has changed in time and in that timeline, he never left. remember though, only the women and children were evacuated from the island at sawyers request… the initiative could have gone on with only the men.

    -Dr. Chang seems to be able to go freely about the stations, and everyone at those stations knows him as Dr. Chang. Why the need to go under different names in the instructional videos? perhaps the dharma plan changed after the evacuation, replacing all of the old workers and changing the mission in a way? it seems as if the initiative as the losties found it was built to get nothing done(each station working independently, no communications, etc.), while in 1977, all the stations were intertwined and working together. seems a little wierd!

  150. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333720"]That is very possible, but I only said Eloise was pregnant in that scene, I never said who the child was.[/quote]

    No, Steve, you didn’t say who the child was, but you were replying to LINS who suggested that Eloise might be pregnant with Daniel. I was simply furthering the conversation without quoting every single prior post. Sorry for the confusion.

    : ) P

  151. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333726"]
    What you have described is WHH. What if that is not right, and things have changed? If they are able to detonate, there will be no need for the fail safe.

    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.

    They can get Jughead out by taking the tunnels – remember the hatch map! they do not need to go through the village to get to the location of the swan site.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Yea thats the ultimate question right now. Is WHH true or can time be changed? I think that WHH is true and I am sticking to it. Could be wrong but I guess we will find out next week.

  152. ajira luggage jockey says:

    A few theories:

    1) The 1977 Losties flash after detonating the H-bomb and causing the incident. Since Eloise helped them accomplish (apparently) nothing with it, and revealed some secrets of the Others, she’s banished from the island.

    2) When Eloise hands Daniel the notebook as a graduation present, we only see the front page inscription. And then we never see Daniel actually WRITE in it. So did she keep the notebook from 1977, then hand it to him in the 1990s with all his notes already in it? I know this creates a time paradox (with the notes never actually being written at any time), but they got away with the compass that keeps bouncing between Alpert and Locke (without ever actually being manufactured in the time loop).

    3) We’ve had three or four mentions of Ann Arbor in the last few episodes. And Juliet wondering what they’ll do when they get to Ann Arbor. Perhaps Sawyer, Juliet and Kate do get to Ann Arbor and reveal their true story to the folks at Dharma headquarters. After all, Ann Arbor has been listening to Faraday rant for the last three years, so they might believe it all. And then we’ll see elderly Sawyer, Juliet and Kate still in Ann Arbor in 2004, making sure the Losties get on the plane for WHH, and then organizing Ilana’s army to retake the island in 2007. Then perhaps Widmore finds out their story, and he makes his billions following Sawyer’s advice (invest in Microsoft, bet on the Cowboys).

    4. To expound on the previous item, consider that Eloise knew about and apparently managed Dharma’s Lamp Post, and the Dharma food drops to the island continue through 2004. Someone would have to know the inside stories of Eloise, Widmore, Alpert and the Others as well as Dharma to set all that up. So Sawyer, Juliet and Kate’s role would make sense here.

    5. Alpert had tensions with Eloise and Widmore, and now he’s showing some with Locke. It looks like the coming war may be between Ilana’s army backing Locke and some loyal Others backing Alpert. Obviously then, Widmore would have been anxious to back Locke’s efforts and ultimately get his revenge on Alpert and Ben.

  153. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333726"]They can get Jughead out by taking the tunnels – remember the hatch map! they do not need to go through the village to get to the location of the swan site.[/quote]

    Exactly! That’s what DocH has been saying for a long time – TUNNELS! And it looked like Jughead was already ON a dolly with wheels. How conVENient! LOL.

    : ) P

  154. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333725"]I also was wondering what thoughts were on Ben being in the scene where Locke tells Richard to go talk to Locke with the bullet hole. Ben flashes 9 months ahead, and is in the desert. So does this mean that he was really on the island? Was he there with Locke and Richard the first time around? Another confusing point for me, if someone will please explain?[/quote]

    The way I see it, Tasha is this: Early 2005 Ben turns the wheel and lands in October 2005. Meanwhile, his wheel turn causes the surviving LOSTies to start flashing through time. E2005Locke (et al) flash back and forward through time. Many of those time periods we can determine based on what is around them. One of those time periods (which we determined was prior to 2004) was when Ethan shot Locke. The NEXT flash (which we determined in FtL) was in 2007. In that flash 2007Locke tells 2007Alpert to go help 2005Locke with his wound, while 2007Ben watches. The fact that 2005Ben turned the wheel and jumped ten months is irrelevant because it is 2007Ben that is watching.

    Clear as mud?

    : ) P

  155. Shadow says:

    I too am confused about Ben being at the scene where Richard removes the bullet from John’s leg. Was he always there the first time around? And when John and Richard and Ben see John flash away, is that the period of time when we saw John flashing to different time periods before ultimately turning the FDW and leaving the island? Just wondering because that means that Richard,John and Ben are not in present time when they are watching John. Since the time travelling that John did happened some time ago. Does that make sense?

  156. Ra says:

    Still noone has responded to my post…cmon fellas and ladies…isnt it plausable…i flipped out last night when it came to me and my girlfriend was in the other room calling me a loser as she watches some lifetime crap…but…here it is again..
    The Sheppard Family/bloodline (as someone just put it) is incredibly signifigant…if the the incident is changed by Jack and everyone got there by Christian..and this incident is reversed..than they will go back to harnessing the energy the only way they know how, by pressing the button…thus creating the Island to be stuck in time like the time loop theory suggests…to have a succesfull community your gonna need someone who can give birth and isnt it a funny coiscidence its a Sheppard..Claire…and she gets taken…she goes cause if all goes according to plan..and this bloodline is the only one that can reproduce on this island during the loop..in the future there will be an egyptian statue built of the fertility goddes Tarewet to honor her……..and this last one is far fetched but we havent seen Jack have sex with anyone…but Kate..and the last time that happened was a few weeks ago in thier time…just like claires reproductive system is special maybe jacks boys can swim like phelps…maybe kaites new role is a signifigant one bearing another child…and thats why she is part of all this…cause..honestly i dont know why smokey hasnt taken care of her yet..i mean I like lookin at her and all but..she hasnt been too special to the island….a stretch but…please give me some thoughts

  157. steve says:

    [quote comment="333738"]I too am confused about Ben being at the scene where Richard removes the bullet from John’s leg. Was he always there the first time around? And when John and Richard and Ben see John flash away, is that the period of time when we saw John flashing to different time periods before ultimately turning the FDW and leaving the island? Just wondering because that means that Richard,John and Ben are not in present time when they are watching John. Since the time travelling that John did happened some time ago. Does that make sense?[/quote]

    _________________

    John gets shot in the leg in 2004, and he then flashes forward to the time when the three stooges are there to see John come out the forest with the wound. This flash was just before Ethan tries to shoot him again. I was just impressed that gun shot wound did not move!!!

  158. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333737"][quote comment="333725"]I also was wondering what thoughts were on Ben being in the scene where Locke tells Richard to go talk to Locke with the bullet hole. Ben flashes 9 months ahead, and is in the desert. So does this mean that he was really on the island? Was he there with Locke and Richard the first time around? Another confusing point for me, if someone will please explain?[/quote]

    The way I see it, Tasha is this: Early 2005 Ben turns the wheel and lands in October 2005. Meanwhile, his wheel turn causes the surviving LOSTies to start flashing through time. E2005Locke (et al) flash back and forward through time. Many of those time periods we can determine based on what is around them. One of those time periods (which we determined was prior to 2004) was when Ethan shot Locke. The NEXT flash (which we determined in FtL) was in 2007. In that flash 2007Locke tells 2007Alpert to go help 2005Locke with his wound, while 2007Ben watches. The fact that 2005Ben turned the wheel and jumped ten months is irrelevant because it is 2007Ben that is watching.

    Clear as mud?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________

    So….Ben wasn’t watching in 2005? Um…I am really confused. Ok let me try it this way….
    Just answer each question and maybe I can follow.

    So did 2005 never really happen yet?

    Was Locke the one that told Richard in 2005 to tell his other self to do those things?

    Was Ben watching in 2005 and did he have the same conversation with Locke?

    Sorry, this and RA saying he watched them all die really LOST me with this episode.

    Speaking of things never really happening, LOL, that commercial came on last night but different from last week. This time they said…”Just because you see/saw it doesn’t mean it will happen.” (Or something along those lines.) They showed several scenes instead of just one like last week.

  159. Mrs.Awesome says:

    Im confused.. did ethan shoot locke in the leg or did someonelse because,i thought they were in 2007 and in 2007 ethans dead isnt he if he is already dead? and what year is Sun,Frank,Ben,and Locke in? And why is Hurley carrying that Gutair still I think lost needs to more season or at least a lost movie to clarify all the unanswered questions.

  160. Ra says:

    locke gets shot in 2004…by ethan…flashes to 2007..where ben richard and now dead locke are..ded lock tells RA to go help wounded lock…so dead lock..ben and RA watching are in 2007…so this is the first time bens sees this because its the first time its been 2007 for ben…but for lock it the second time its been 2007…cause he was flashing…2005 ben is off somewhere in tanzania

  161. steve says:

    [quote comment="333744"]locke gets shot in 2004…by ethan…flashes to 2007..where ben richard and now dead locke are..ded lock tells RA to go help wounded lock…so dead lock..ben and RA watching are in 2007…so this is the first time bens sees this because its the first time its been 2007 for ben…but for lock it the second time its been 2007…cause he was flashing…2005 ben is off somewhere in tanzania[/quote]

    _____________________
    Exactly. Well put.

  162. maddog says:

    Is it possible that John Locke is, in fact, Jacob.

  163. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333741"][quote comment="333738"]I too am confused about Ben being at the scene where Richard removes the bullet from John’s leg. Was he always there the first time around? And when John and Richard and Ben see John flash away, is that the period of time when we saw John flashing to different time periods before ultimately turning the FDW and leaving the island? Just wondering because that means that Richard,John and Ben are not in present time when they are watching John. Since the time travelling that John did happened some time ago. Does that make sense?[/quote]

    _________________

    John gets shot in the leg in 2004, and he then flashes forward to the time when the three stooges are there to see John come out the forest with the wound. This flash was just before Ethan tries to shoot him again. I was just impressed that gun shot wound did not move!!![/quote]
    __________________________

    LOL. Ok so who’s idea is it to bring back the O6? John’s? I always thought there was some meaning for bringing them back. Now we just know it was John’s idea because he is going to turn into a mass murderer now. Jacob wanted him to turn the wheel to begin with, not Ben. So none of that was even supposed to happen. Maybe everything is mapped out. Whatever happened HAPPENED and whatever is supposed to happen WILL happen. So not only did things always happen in the past, but things in the future have already happened to.

    I know I just lost everybody. No matter what nothing changes.

    To whoever was saying that the statue was from the FUTURE, I totally thought that awhile back but figured everyone would shoot me down. It didn’t really make alot of sense to me but I understand what you are thinking.

  164. Mateo says:

    what the heck happened to Claire? they never showed what happened to her…. yeah, we’ve seen her in the cabin and showing up in people’s minds back home but they never explained what happened,.. it has been like 3 whole seasons, wtf!

  165. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333747"]
    LOL. Ok so who’s idea is it to bring back the O6? John’s? [/quote]

    I think it is “the island’s” idea. The island TELLS John in 2007 to tell Alpert in 2007 to tell 2005Locke what to do.

    [quote comment="333747"]
    To whoever was saying that the statue was from the FUTURE, I totally thought that awhile back but figured everyone would shoot me down. It didn’t really make alot of sense to me but I understand what you are thinking.[/quote]

    Well if the statue is from “the future” how is it broken to just a foot in 2004?

    : ) P

  166. marco says:

    [quote comment="333681"]Under the Barracks is where Smokey is summoned from. Wonder if there is a connection between IT and the bomb.[/quote]

    It appeared that Ben’s residence was built around an ancient entrance to the tunnels. Remember he pulled out the bookcase and went into the Hieroglyphic covered door.

  167. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333748"]what the heck happened to Claire? they never showed what happened to her…. yeah, we’ve seen her in the cabin and showing up in people’s minds back home but they never explained what happened,.. it has been like 3 whole seasons, wtf![/quote]

    Chill, Mateo. LOL. We last saw Claire in NEW footage in Cabin Fever (S4E11). So we haven’t seen NEW footage of her for this season and two episodes of LAST season. That is one season and two episodes, not three whole seasons! *bg*

    She is not scheduled to appear in any episodes until NEXT season, but Emilie deRavin, and Claire, are coming back.

    : ) P

  168. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333749"][quote comment="333747"]
    LOL. Ok so who’s idea is it to bring back the O6? John’s? [/quote]

    I think it is “the island’s” idea. The island TELLS John in 2007 to tell Alpert in 2007 to tell 2005Locke what to do.

    [quote comment="333747"]
    To whoever was saying that the statue was from the FUTURE, I totally thought that awhile back but figured everyone would shoot me down. It didn’t really make alot of sense to me but I understand what you are thinking.[/quote]

    Well if the statue is from “the future” how is it broken to just a foot in 2004?

    : ) P[/quote]
    _______________

    Probably island’s idea.

    What I was thinking about the statue is that they build it again. So yes it was broken but then it gets rebuilt after everything on the island gets to where it’s supposed to be. I believe still that they could write that in there and get away with it. There are many possiblities.

    Question, Do we have any proof that the year on the island is the same as off the island?

  169. Ra says:

    how do we know it is 2004 when we see the foot…and couldnt the others be building it in peices and thats the first peice to go up…cause if there arent building..i think the better question would be..2004..where is the rest of that hundred something foot statue…if it fell some time in the past…there would be a pretty big mess…right…like way more than a foot lyin around…youd have to assume there would be an arm..a staff..big chunk of a back…somethin…my bet is in the future…and they need clare to have babies

  170. steve says:

    [quote comment="333747"][quote comment="333741"][quote comment="333738"]I too am confused about Ben being at the scene where Richard removes the bullet from John’s leg. Was he always there the first time around? And when John and Richard and Ben see John flash away, is that the period of time when we saw John flashing to different time periods before ultimately turning the FDW and leaving the island? Just wondering because that means that Richard,John and Ben are not in present time when they are watching John. Since the time travelling that John did happened some time ago. Does that make sense?[/quote]

    _________________

    John gets shot in the leg in 2004, and he then flashes forward to the time when the three stooges are there to see John come out the forest with the wound. This flash was just before Ethan tries to shoot him again. I was just impressed that gun shot wound did not move!!![/quote]
    __________________________

    LOL. Ok so who’s idea is it to bring back the O6? John’s? I always thought there was some meaning for bringing them back. Now we just know it was John’s idea because he is going to turn into a mass murderer now. Jacob wanted him to turn the wheel to begin with, not Ben. So none of that was even supposed to happen. Maybe everything is mapped out. Whatever happened HAPPENED and whatever is supposed to happen WILL happen. So not only did things always happen in the past, but things in the future have already happened to.

    I know I just lost everybody. No matter what nothing changes.

    To whoever was saying that the statue was from the FUTURE, I totally thought that awhile back but figured everyone would shoot me down. It didn’t really make alot of sense to me but I understand what you are thinking.[/quote]

    **********************************
    I think that Idea was Eloise’s. My theory is that the Eloise and Charles we see at the Hospital in Long Beach, are living in their past much like the Oceanic 4 are living in their relative past. By Sending Them back, she is attempting to defy WHH, and she may have succeeded. The only evidence of success thus far is that she should know the out come of the Desmond shooting, but admits that for the first time, in a long time, that she does know what happens next. Apparently neither did Charles. IMO – This is because Desmond being shot was not something that happened before in their past.

    Just my take on the events, but we will have see how this pans out in the future… past… Oh!!! whenever.

  171. SawyerGal says:

    Why is it that Richard is the same age – regardless of what year it is?

  172. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    This is possible, and it may be that the island told Locke to kill Jacob. This part may be true whether or not the killing is to help Jacob.

  173. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333475"]I’m thinking that the ep will be about trying to decide WHO to follow – follow WHICH leader? All the possible candidates will step forward and look for a following, I’m guessing – John, Widmore, Jack, Richard (maybe), Ben, Horace, Chang, Sawyer, Radowski, you get the idea. Who will emerge as the REAL leader? Is this where we meet Jacob? :)[/quote]
    Good prediction Rita. And it turned out there was more than one leader emerging.

    Locke, leader of the 2007 Others
    Jack, leading the expedition to detonate the H-bomb
    Radzinsky, taking over as leader of DI
    Sawyer, reasserting himself as leader of his “family”, striking the deal to get on the sub
    Chang, ordering the women and children off of the island

  174. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333754"]how do we know it is 2004 when we see the foot…and couldnt the others be building it in peices and thats the first peice to go up…cause if there arent building..i think the better question would be..2004..where is the rest of that hundred something foot statue…if it fell some time in the past…there would be a pretty big mess…right…like way more than a foot lyin around…youd have to assume there would be an arm..a staff..big chunk of a back…somethin…my bet is in the future…and they need clare to have babies[/quote]

    THIS is not a picture of a “work in progress” in my opinion.

    The foot and ankle alone are likely as tall as 40 feet, so I think a better estimate of the statue is closer to 300 feet.

    I believe that the rest of the statue is probably in the water.

    : ) P

  175. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333583"]Love Dr. Chang questioning Hurley.[/quote]
    That was really hilarious! Probably the funniest scene ever on Lost, IMHO. Loved the reaction shot of Jin, after Hurley questions whether there was ever a Korean war.

  176. sickb13 says:

    On the H-Bomb:

    The science behind using the H-bomb to destroy the energy pocket is that the special “dark matter” on the island is negative enegery. I.e. it is the theoretical matter that has negative mass that balances the universe (and reverse polarity fundamental electromagnetic properties). An H-bomb has a huge amount of positive (traditional) enegery, and thus Daniel predicts that by detonating it in the field of the dark matter the H-bomb and dark matter will destructively interfere with each other (thus cancelling the energy from both read: destroy each other). That is the root of his theory.

    The issue in my mind is that you’re dealing with a “perfect” cancellation, so any imbalance on either side will result in a remainder. i.e. if the bomb had more positive energy than the dark matter had negative then some positive energy would escape, likewise for the dark matter, etc. So unless they perfectly (or nearly perfectly) match up, there will be a remainder large enough to cause a significant disturbance.

    If they were to match up almost equally though (as maybe daniel calculated?) – it would look a lot more like a firecracker exploding in a tin can – you’d only be in trouble if you were in the immediate proximity of the reaction.

    I’m not so good at the story line stuff, but the physics theory stuff I do get – hope that helps some of you :)

  177. Ra says:

    again…why is the broken foot picture have to be 2004…there is no chance that picture or shot..was from the far future..say 100 years…and the full statue shot is 50 years in the future

  178. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333718"][quote comment="333714"]

    I think the incident might not be as big of a catastrophe as Dan believed, they may find a way to limit it…like you said Charles does not get exiled for a while. I think we will see Chang die because he will be at the site when the incident happens. Just my theories feel free to comment.[/quote]
    ____________________

    Definitely thinks Chang dies. with you on that.

    But the H-Bomb is in the tunnel not at the hatch. But I like that the fail safe key might linked to the h-bomb somehow…that makes sense in my head[/quote]
    _________________________________
    I disagree with the Chang dying bit. Chang goes on to narrate the videos for the various stations, including the Swan, where he refers to “an incident”. So unless you believe that they will change history, and WHH will turn out not to be true, Chang will not die.

  179. steve says:

    [quote comment="333765"]On the H-Bomb:

    The science behind using the H-bomb to destroy the energy pocket is that the special “dark matter” on the island is negative enegery. I.e. it is the theoretical matter that has negative mass that balances the universe (and reverse polarity fundamental electromagnetic properties). An H-bomb has a huge amount of positive (traditional) enegery, and thus Daniel predicts that by detonating it in the field of the dark matter the H-bomb and dark matter will destructively interfere with each other (thus cancelling the energy from both read: destroy each other). That is the root of his theory.

    The issue in my mind is that you’re dealing with a “perfect” cancellation, so any imbalance on either side will result in a remainder. i.e. if the bomb had more positive energy than the dark matter had negative then some positive energy would escape, likewise for the dark matter, etc. So unless they perfectly (or nearly perfectly) match up, there will be a remainder large enough to cause a significant disturbance.

    If they were to match up almost equally though (as maybe daniel calculated?) – it would look a lot more like a firecracker exploding in a tin can – you’d only be in trouble if you were in the immediate proximity of the reaction.

    I’m not so good at the story line stuff, but the physics theory stuff I do get – hope that helps some of you :)[/quote]
    ____________________________________________

    Absolutely agree. This is what I was posting in Comment 115. The only fly in the ointment would be the disruption of the reaction within the bomb by the gravitational forces in the material. If photon energy released in the reactor core is warped or bent, the reaction could be hampered.

    Did that make sense?

  180. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    *********************
    John seems to know what he is suppose to do…maybe that is what “help me” means…maybe Locke knows he is the one that has to do this…do you think they are on their way to the temple or the cabin? Maybe Jacob is the ‘whisper’ and the sole that is trapped! I think my theory that Jacob is the island is wrong…or is it…does killing Jacob, the islands soles, free the island…is that crazy or what?
    -miss

  181. Miraks says:

    Kate is getting on my nerves- big time. All she does is whine and give longing looks to both Jack and Sawyer. Get over it- they are just not that into you. Jack is over it and Saywer found someone else.

    Speaking of Sawyer- if I were him getting on the sub, my first thought would have been to find the “real” Sawyer and getting rid of him before he got to my mom.

  182. Cleo McCoy says:

    [quote comment="333746"]Is it possible that John Locke is, in fact, Jacob.[/quote]
    Is it possible that Sawyer is John Locke? I’ve thought so for a while and the fact that 30-some year old Sawyer just got on a sub to the mainland in 1977, presumably out of time shift range, where he will age to the 60-some year old Locke in 2004 cemented my theory for me. There are a few Sawyer/Locke connections not to mention the very obvious attempts by the producers to have Sawyer look like Locke- serene facial expressions and all, and Sawyer is an admitted liar which would easliy cancle out any hanging threads in the story.

  183. Cherry-missAWESOME says:

    Where hears a thought I found on lostpedia. John may not actually want Jacob … because in a literary since it could mean that to kill the idea of jacob which is why he is taking all the people to his cabin(to prove that there is no Jacob) .like for example did you see ben’s face when Locke asked him did you actually see talk to Jacob.
    So im kind of thinking that jacob may not exist or if he does exist they havent been taking orders from him and have held him captive thus the white ashes so I dont see the point of claire and christan being in his cabon unless they are there to signify the dead.I really am lost and very confused

    soo..did anyones else have aany crazii lost dreams from that episode lol

  184. Cherry-missAWESOME says:

    Where hears a thought I found on lostpedia. John may not actually want Jacob … because in a literary since it could mean that to kill the idea of jacob which is why he is taking all the people to his cabin(to prove that there is no Jacob) .like for example did you see ben’s face when Locke asked him did you actually see talk to Jacob.
    So im kind of thinking that jacob may not exist or if he does exist they havent been taking orders from him and have held him captive thus the white ashes so I dont see the point of claire and christan being in his cabon unless they are there to signify the dead.I really am lost and very confused

    soo..did anyones else have aany crazii lost dreams from that episode lol

  185. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333686"][quote comment="333639"]Just a note, if somehow Jack et al do manage to somehow prevent 815 from crashing, this will do nothing to help Juliet – she will still be stuck on the island, waiting for Ben to let her go. Sucks for Juliet![/quote]

    After last week’s episode I made a list of what would’ve happened if the plane landed as it was supposed to.

    1)Kate would’ve been tried for murder, probably spending the rest of her life in jail.

    I thought she was going to mention this in last night’s scene with Jack.

    2)Claire would’ve given up Aaron for adoption
    3)Charlie would be a heroin addict
    4)Desmond would still be pushing the button
    5)Sayid has a good outcome, probably meet up with his girlfriend and live happily ever after
    6)Locke would’ve still been a looser in a wheel chair
    7)Saywer probably would’ve been caught and tried for the murder of that guy in Austrailia.
    8)Michael and Walt would’ve had a good outcome too, I suppose. Live happily as father and son.
    9)Sun would’ve left Jin. But live as an illegal alien trying to make her way in the US. We don’t know she had contacts in US, do we. She would’ve at the very least never made up with Jin and had their daughter.

    So some good outcomes and some bad.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Interesting points, but I disagree about #4, Desmond. Based on what Daniel said in The Variable, I believe what Jack is doing is intended to neutralize the electromagnetic forces on the island, which will make the button-pushing task of the Swan unnecessary, and I guess, make the Swan station itself unnecessary.

  186. Miraks says:

    I am starting to believe that there may be no Jacob. Rather just the idea of a Jacob- like the Wizard of Oz. There have been allusions to it- Henry Gale, the Man behind the Curtain, etc. What if Richard is the “real” Jacob- the one who pulls the strings, but does it as an “advisor” behind the scene. It’s much harder to stage a coup against a misterious figure than a person/ leader that is right there, so the idea of Jacob might just be a way to stay in control.

  187. Frank says:

    [quote comment="333788"][quote comment="333746"]Is it possible that John Locke is, in fact, Jacob.[/quote]
    Is it possible that Sawyer is John Locke? I’ve thought so for a while and the fact that 30-some year old Sawyer just got on a sub to the mainland in 1977, presumably out of time shift range, where he will age to the 60-some year old Locke in 2004 cemented my theory for me. There are a few Sawyer/Locke connections not to mention the very obvious attempts by the producers to have Sawyer look like Locke- serene facial expressions and all, and Sawyer is an admitted liar which would easliy cancle out any hanging threads in the story.[/quote]

    ____________________

    Um, I think The old Locke would remember this no?

  188. MacGyver says:

    quote comment=”333765″]On the H-Bomb:

    The science behind using the H-bomb to destroy the energy pocket is that the special “dark matter” on the island is negative enegery. I.e. it is the theoretical matter that has negative mass that balances the universe (and reverse polarity fundamental electromagnetic properties). An H-bomb has a huge amount of positive (traditional) enegery, and thus Daniel predicts that by detonating it in the field of the dark matter the H-bomb and dark matter will destructively interfere with each other (thus cancelling the energy from both read: destroy each other). That is the root of his theory.

    The issue in my mind is that you’re dealing with a “perfect” cancellation, so any imbalance on either side will result in a remainder. i.e. if the bomb had more positive energy than the dark matter had negative then some positive energy would escape, likewise for the dark matter, etc. So unless they perfectly (or nearly perfectly) match up, there will be a remainder large enough to cause a significant disturbance.

    If they were to match up almost equally though (as maybe daniel calculated?) – it would look a lot more like a firecracker exploding in a tin can – you’d only be in trouble if you were in the immediate proximity of the reaction.

    I’m not so good at the story line stuff, but the physics theory stuff I do get – hope that helps some of you :)[/quote]

    As for the following statement, I absolutely agree!!!!
    “the bomb going off doesn’t destroy the island maybe because of some weird interaction with the magnetic properties of the island.”

    I believe that daniel figured that the H-Bomb blast explosion would be absorbed by the implosion of the magnetic anomally, and forces would cancel each other out. IMO exposing the anomally is something like taking the lid of of a pot that holds a localized singularity (A black hole) If the Bomb Blast is contained within the limits of the event horizon of the singularity, the forces are contained in the bubble and the island goes on. If not, then God help us all.[/quote]

    *****
    Ok…. this is bad science… A hydrogen bomb does not cancel out ANYTHING. And there is no DARK matter involved at all. Just a bomb and a whole lot of magnetic energy. Which technically can only magnify the same energy. Even if one could use that bomb to negate the swam, you HAVE to know the EXACT amount of energy contained in that bomb which is impossiblwe to detect because it’s been leaking since thefirst day we first saw it. Meaning Radioactive decay has set in making it’s potenial energy die out.

    That bomb kills everyone And jack is not supposed to help drop it……

    I knew as soon as I saw sawyer and Julliette get on that sub, that they where the two in the dead. That sub’s not going anywhere.

    Now …to John. WTF is are all these looks between RA and BEN? As soon as he stated his agenda to kill Jacob I had to sit there and think for like 30 minutes.. And what i came up with Makes A LOT of sense. But before I unload this on you all, I need a bit of help. CAn someone please tell me the title of the episode where Ben first meets John?

  189. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333788"][quote comment="333746"]Is it possible that John Locke is, in fact, Jacob.[/quote]
    Is it possible that Sawyer is John Locke? I’ve thought so for a while and the fact that 30-some year old Sawyer just got on a sub to the mainland in 1977, presumably out of time shift range, where he will age to the 60-some year old Locke in 2004 cemented my theory for me. There are a few Sawyer/Locke connections not to mention the very obvious attempts by the producers to have Sawyer look like Locke- serene facial expressions and all, and Sawyer is an admitted liar which would easliy cancle out any hanging threads in the story.[/quote]
    ______________________
    Doubtful. We’ve seen younger versions of both Locke and Sawyer – they look nothing alike.

  190. Frank says:

    Anyone think Alpert has been somehow holding Jacob captive and utilizing his energy to stay immortal?

    It then would be strange for him to have a different “leader.” Why wouldnt he just be the leader?

    I just havent really seen selfish motives from him and now I am starting to suspect there are some.

  191. wally p says:

    I think Kate had a purpose getting on that sub. She seemed pretty sure that she needed to go back, and I was suprised that she got into the sub. It takes some balls to just get in there with Juliet and Sawyer and a bunch of strangers in the strange land of 1977… either that or a purpose.

  192. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333790"]Where hears a thought I found on lostpedia. John may not actually want Jacob … because in a literary since it could mean that to kill the idea of jacob which is why he is taking all the people to his cabin(to prove that there is no Jacob) .like for example did you see ben’s face when Locke asked him did you actually see talk to Jacob.
    So im kind of thinking that jacob may not exist or if he does exist they havent been taking orders from him and have held him captive thus the white ashes so I dont see the point of claire and christan being in his cabon unless they are there to signify the dead.I really am lost and very confused

    soo..did anyones else have aany crazii lost dreams from that episode lol[/quote]
    ****
    I’ll have an answer for that shortly

  193. Cherry-missAWESOME says:

    [quote comment="333797"]Anyone think Alpert has been somehow holding Jacob captive and utilizing his energy to stay immortal?

    It then would be strange for him to have a different “leader.” Why wouldnt he just be the leader?

    I just havent really seen selfish motives from him and now I am starting to suspect there are some.[/quote]
    UM..Yea I totaly Agree

  194. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333618"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]

    Well it is possible that Richard THINKS they all die but the explosion sets off another purple sky event that sends them all to 2007.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?

  195. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333679"]
    Could be. I am going stick with my idea for now. The weird part about the WHH scenario, for me, was trying to reconcile why Charles Widmore would show up at the hospital in Long Beach to find out how Desmond was doing. If WHH he should have known the outcome, and would have saved himself a trip.
    [/quote]

    Widmore not knowing about Desmond has nothing to do with WHH. Widmore wasn’t time travelling in this scene.

    [quote comment="333726"]
    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.
    [/quote]

    I disagree with this. I think Eloise has always been a firm believer in WHH, so much so that she sent Daniel to the island, knowing that her younger self would end up killing him. And Daniel was always a believer in WHH up until The Variable episode. In that episode, he was hoping he found a way to change history, and violate the WHH rule. But in the end he personally was unable to change anything, and in fact as he lay there dying he realized that WHH is true, as evidenced by his comments “you knew” to Eloise.

  196. steve says:

    [quote comment="333794"]quote comment=”333765″]On the H-Bomb:

    Ok…. this is bad science… A hydrogen bomb does not cancel out ANYTHING. And there is no DARK matter involved at all.

    Just a bomb and a whole lot of magnetic energy. Which technically can only magnify the same energy. Even if one could use that bomb to negate the swam, you HAVE to know the EXACT amount of energy contained in that bomb which is impossiblwe to detect because it’s been leaking since thefirst day we first saw it. Meaning Radioactive decay has set in making it’s potenial energy die out.

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Radioactive decay? Hydrogen bombs are a staged thermo-nuclear weapon. Compressed U235 is used for the initial fission blast that sets off enough heat to cause the deuterium fission explosion. Uranium 235 has a half life of 703,800,000 years!!! What decay?

    The main issue in preservation would be to keep the liquid deuterium from phasing to gas. It needs to be supercooled.

    I not a physicist, I’am a mathematician like Horus. But remember this a TV show.

  197. secretgarden says:

    Walt also said “You were wearing a suit…”
    Which he is not now.

    [quote comment="333612"][quote comment="333608"][quote comment="333606"][quote comment="333599"][quote comment="333593"]OK, I need help thinking this thru…Locke wants to KILL JACOB??? Didn’t Jacob ask for Locke’s help? Are Hawking and Widmore on the same side (EVIL) trying to kill Jacob so they can go back?[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    What I am thinking is that just because Locke plans on killing Jacob does not mean that he is not helping Jacob. That might be the only way to save Jacob and when he does that something amazing will happen. I mean come on Locke died and guess who is walking around and talking and is more enlightened than ever. Anything is possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Hmmmmm….plausible, makes sense.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++=
    Oh wait!!! Walt had a dream that people wanted to hurt him…what if he does kill Jacob and all the Others get angry about it?[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    I was thinking about this too because we just all assume that the people from 316 were the people that wanted to hurt Locke but really it could be the others. He said he was on a beach surrounded by people. Well he is on the beach right now and surrounded by people. And if I know anything about Ben, he will probably make sure to alert everyone what Locke’s intentions are.[/quote]

  198. steve says:

    [quote comment="333807"][quote comment="333679"]
    Could be. I am going stick with my idea for now. The weird part about the WHH scenario, for me, was trying to reconcile why Charles Widmore would show up at the hospital in Long Beach to find out how Desmond was doing. If WHH he should have known the outcome, and would have saved himself a trip.
    [/quote]

    Widmore not knowing about Desmond has nothing to do with WHH. Widmore wasn’t time travelling in this scene.

    [quote comment="333726"]
    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.
    [/quote]

    I disagree with this. I think Eloise has always been a firm believer in WHH, so much so that she sent Daniel to the island, knowing that her younger self would end up killing him. And Daniel was always a believer in WHH up until The Variable episode. In that episode, he was hoping he found a way to change history, and violate the WHH rule. But in the end he personally was unable to change anything, and in fact as he lay there dying he realized that WHH is true, as evidenced by his comments “you knew” to Eloise.[/quote]

    _________________________________

    Agree to disagree on this one. We will see how it turns out. I guess we can only wait. I still say Eloise and Charles are time traveling back to 2007 in the scenes we have in LA.

  199. secretgarden says:

    Oh wait!!! Walt had a dream that people wanted to hurt him…what if he does kill Jacob and all the Others get angry about it?[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    I was thinking about this too because we just all assume that the people from 316 were the people that wanted to hurt Locke but really it could be the others. He said he was on a beach surrounded by people. Well he is on the beach right now and surrounded by people. And if I know anything about Ben, he will probably make sure to alert everyone what Locke’s intentions are.[/quote][/quote]

    Walt also said “You were wearing a suit…”
    Which he is not now.

  200. Cherry-missAWESOME says:

    [quote comment="333804"][quote comment="333618"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]

    Well it is possible that Richard THINKS they all die but the explosion sets off another purple sky event that sends them all to 2007.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?[/quote]

    I believe that RA is lying about seeing them all die because he is not refering to diappearin like ellie did .So,I believe that he is lying because he knows the Sun would do all she can to be reunited with Jin again

  201. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333804"]
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?[/quote]

    Or, Alpert could just be referring to “everyone who was one the island” in 1977 – not thinking about the fact that Kate was on the sub. Kind of like if you look back at a photo of the kids in your neighborhood from when you were a kid. You might tell someone “they all moved away” when you don’t REALLY know that EVERYONE moved away. It’s kind of like the disagreement about “thirty years” passing. It is APPROXIMATELY thirty years, not EXACTLY thirty years.

    Who knows.

    : ) P

  202. Amber says:

    So after watching this episode and listening to Jack and Kates conversation about changing things so that none of it happens I have decided that that would be the worst ending ever! Is it just me or does everyone else just want them all to live on the island happily ever after?

  203. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333808"][quote comment="333794"]quote comment=”333765″]On the H-Bomb:

    Ok…. this is bad science… A hydrogen bomb does not cancel out ANYTHING. And there is no DARK matter involved at all.

    Just a bomb and a whole lot of magnetic energy. Which technically can only magnify the same energy. Even if one could use that bomb to negate the swam, you HAVE to know the EXACT amount of energy contained in that bomb which is impossiblwe to detect because it’s been leaking since thefirst day we first saw it. Meaning Radioactive decay has set in making it’s potenial energy die out.

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Radioactive decay? Hydrogen bombs are a staged thermo-nuclear weapon. Compressed U235 is used for the initial fission blast that sets off enough heat to cause the deuterium fission explosion. Uranium 235 has a half life of 703,800,000 years!!! What decay?

    The main issue in preservation would be to keep the liquid deuterium from phasing to gas. It needs to be supercooled.

    I not a physicist, I’am a mathematician like Horus. But remember this a TV show.[/quote]

    ****
    Yeah but decay is decay. It doesn’t matter that half of that Uranium will turn to lead in 703 million years. What matters is that it IS turning and you can’t measure how much already has. Add to that the lack of any supercoolant(good call), and surely you have a bomb lacking the same potenial it had thirty years ago.

  204. sickb13 says:

    [quote comment="333775"][quote comment="333765"]On the H-Bomb:

    The science behind using the H-bomb to destroy the energy pocket is that the special “dark matter” on the island is negative enegery. I.e. it is the theoretical matter that has negative mass that balances the universe (and reverse polarity fundamental electromagnetic properties). An H-bomb has a huge amount of positive (traditional) enegery, and thus Daniel predicts that by detonating it in the field of the dark matter the H-bomb and dark matter will destructively interfere with each other (thus cancelling the energy from both read: destroy each other). That is the root of his theory.

    The issue in my mind is that you’re dealing with a “perfect” cancellation, so any imbalance on either side will result in a remainder. i.e. if the bomb had more positive energy than the dark matter had negative then some positive energy would escape, likewise for the dark matter, etc. So unless they perfectly (or nearly perfectly) match up, there will be a remainder large enough to cause a significant disturbance.

    If they were to match up almost equally though (as maybe daniel calculated?) – it would look a lot more like a firecracker exploding in a tin can – you’d only be in trouble if you were in the immediate proximity of the reaction.

    I’m not so good at the story line stuff, but the physics theory stuff I do get – hope that helps some of you :)[/quote]
    ____________________________________________

    Absolutely agree. This is what I was posting in Comment 115. The only fly in the ointment would be the disruption of the reaction within the bomb by the gravitational forces in the material. If photon energy released in the reactor core is warped or bent, the reaction could be hampered.

    Did that make sense?[/quote]

    ———————————————

    Yes it does. Electromagnetic interactions are fundamentally “imperfect” because the “perfect” alignment is the two sources occupying the same physical space and time instantaneously. This is of course impossible (as we currently know?) So all EM reactions are fundamentally imperfect, although usually it’s not thought of this way since the forces between them are exponential and at a certain point the fields interact in such a way that is relatively gigantic in comparison to any other external forces.

    As another note, when dealing with an H bomb, you can establish the physical promixity beforehand to increase the likelyhood that all energy released by the bomb would be in the field of the static (maybe?) field; in this case the dark matter. So all in all it’s a pretty solid theory by Daniel – at least in the context of Lost :P

  205. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333809"]Walt also said “You were wearing a suit…”
    Which he is not now.

    [quote comment="333612"]

    True, but in my defense ;)…Walt didn’t talk very long…didn’t give a blow by blow account of the dream, just that he wore a suit(which we saw) and that people on the beach wanted to hurt him (which we haven’t seen).

  206. Hammer says:

    Nice post Hammer…geez.

  207. Ra says:

    AMBER – So after watching this episode and listening to Jack and Kates conversation about changing things so that none of it happens I have decided that that would be the worst ending ever! Is it just me or does everyone else just want them all to live on the island happily ever after?

    -some of them will live on the island happily ever after..Jack will eventually come to fully believe and WILL end up being our hero..as the show began…Locke was born of an immaculate conception..Noone has ever had the connection to the Island like locke..not even Richard..and ill bet the bank Locke is done aging now too……I think we were lead to believe that Locke was taking over the “others” and ben…maybe hes there to take over richards job..but also..i dont know what hes gonna do..cause the way i see it…Richard and Locke are both dead..no more birthdays for either of them…what i want to know is…how do you get rid of a dead guy..

  208. steve says:

    [quote comment="333816"][quote comment="333808"][quote comment="333794"]quote comment=”333765″]On the H-Bomb:

    Ok…. this is bad science… A hydrogen bomb does not cancel out ANYTHING. And there is no DARK matter involved at all.

    Just a bomb and a whole lot of magnetic energy. Which technically can only magnify the same energy. Even if one could use that bomb to negate the swam, you HAVE to know the EXACT amount of energy contained in that bomb which is impossiblwe to detect because it’s been leaking since thefirst day we first saw it. Meaning Radioactive decay has set in making it’s potenial energy die out.

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Radioactive decay? Hydrogen bombs are a staged thermo-nuclear weapon. Compressed U235 is used for the initial fission blast that sets off enough heat to cause the deuterium fission explosion. Uranium 235 has a half life of 703,800,000 years!!! What decay?

    The main issue in preservation would be to keep the liquid deuterium from phasing to gas. It needs to be supercooled.

    I not a physicist, I’am a mathematician like Horus. But remember this a TV show.[/quote]

    ****
    Yeah but decay is decay. It doesn’t matter that half of that Uranium will turn to lead in 703 million years. What matters is that it IS turning and you can’t measure how much already has. Add to that the lack of any supercoolant(good call), and surely you have a bomb lacking the same potenial it had thirty years ago.[/quote]

    ____________________________

    Uranium 235 decays to Thorium 231 not lead. in 30 years it can be measured and would still be about 99.999% effective, but now it will on be an atom bomb. It will not have the phased effect. But still quite a formidable blast. (Basically this 1954 Jughead H-Bomb is now a 1940’s little Boy A-Bomb)

    Again this a TV show and they can make it anything they want, so lets have fun speculating. Can’t wait to see how this turns out. I hope WHH is not a steady rule becuase the story is so much moree interesting when unpredictable.

  209. doodle says:

    30/703800000=4.26E-8=insignificant

  210. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333818"][quote comment="333775"][quote comment="333765"]

    So all in all it’s a pretty solid theory by Daniel – at least in the context of Lost :P[/quote]

    ****
    I will agree 100% with you there….I just don’t think I’s gonna work.

  211. doodle says:

    as far as submarines (also Sawyer et al.) leaving the island, we know it has to happen because Miles and Charlette are raised off the island. Which sub did they get on is the question.

  212. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="333570"][quote comment="333467"]I vote for Vincent as the leader. Only because I don’t think anyone guessed him yet.[/quote]
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Oh yhea, plus He’s a dead ringer for Ra (The Egyption), who is a dog, though be it not nesesarrilly a Golden Retreiver.

    And who has the initials RA? Thats right Ritchard Alpert.

    Has anyone every seen Vincent and Ritchard in the same scene?……..Me either :D[/quote]
    ++++++++
    OK, now that’s creepy. And I do remember the golden REtreiver story.

  213. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333823"][quote comment="333816"][quote comment="333808"][quote comment="333794"]quote comment=”333765″]On the H-Bomb:

    Ok…. this is bad science… A hydrogen bomb does not cancel out ANYTHING. And there is no DARK matter involved at all.

    Just a bomb and a whole lot of magnetic energy. Which technically can only magnify the same energy. Even if one could use that bomb to negate the swam, you HAVE to know the EXACT amount of energy contained in that bomb which is impossiblwe to detect because it’s been leaking since thefirst day we first saw it. Meaning Radioactive decay has set in making it’s potenial energy die out.

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Radioactive decay? Hydrogen bombs are a staged thermo-nuclear weapon. Compressed U235 is used for the initial fission blast that sets off enough heat to cause the deuterium fission explosion. Uranium 235 has a half life of 703,800,000 years!!! What decay?

    The main issue in preservation would be to keep the liquid deuterium from phasing to gas. It needs to be supercooled.

    I not a physicist, I’am a mathematician like Horus. But remember this a TV show.[/quote]

    ****
    Yeah but decay is decay. It doesn’t matter that half of that Uranium will turn to lead in 703 million years. What matters is that it IS turning and you can’t measure how much already has. Add to that the lack of any supercoolant(good call), and surely you have a bomb lacking the same potenial it had thirty years ago.[/quote]

    ____________________________

    Uranium 235 decays to Thorium 231 not lead. in 30 years it can be measured and would still be about 99.999% effective, but now it will on be an atom bomb. It will not have the phased effect. But still quite a formidable blast. (Basically this 1954 Jughead H-Bomb is now a 1940’s little Boy A-Bomb)

    Again this a TV show and they can make it anything they want, so lets have fun speculating. Can’t wait to see how this turns out. I hope WHH is not a steady rule becuase the story is so much moree interesting when unpredictable.[/quote]

  214. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333814"]So after watching this episode and listening to Jack and Kates conversation about changing things so that none of it happens I have decided that that would be the worst ending ever! Is it just me or does everyone else just want them all to live on the island happily ever after?[/quote]

    Yes, Amber it would totally be the worst ending ever. And yes, living happily ever after would be great. But to make them TRULY happily ever after, Charlie, Shannon and Libby would have to come back from the dead (for Claire, Sayid and Hurley)!

    : ) P

  215. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333832"][quote comment="333814"]So after watching this episode and listening to Jack and Kates conversation about changing things so that none of it happens I have decided that that would be the worst ending ever! Is it just me or does everyone else just want them all to live on the island happily ever after?[/quote]

    Yes, Amber it would totally be the worst ending ever. And yes, living happily ever after would be great. But to make them TRULY happily ever after, Charlie, Shannon and Libby would have to come back from the dead (for Claire, Sayid and Hurley)!

    : ) P[/quote]
    And Nadia, to make Sayid’s love triangle. :)

  216. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333823"][quote comment="333816"][quote comment="333808"][quote comment="333794"]quote comment=”333765″]On the H-Bomb:

    Ok…. this is bad science… A hydrogen bomb does not cancel out ANYTHING. And there is no DARK matter involved at all.

    Just a bomb and a whole lot of magnetic energy. Which technically can only magnify the same energy. Even if one could use that bomb to negate the swam, you HAVE to know the EXACT amount of energy contained in that bomb which is impossiblwe to detect because it’s been leaking since thefirst day we first saw it. Meaning Radioactive decay has set in making it’s potenial energy die out.

    [/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Radioactive decay? Hydrogen bombs are a staged thermo-nuclear weapon. Compressed U235 is used for the initial fission blast that sets off enough heat to cause the deuterium fission explosion. Uranium 235 has a half life of 703,800,000 years!!! What decay?

    The main issue in preservation would be to keep the liquid deuterium from phasing to gas. It needs to be supercooled.

    I not a physicist, I’am a mathematician like Horus. But remember this a TV show.[/quote]

    ****
    Yeah but decay is decay. It doesn’t matter that half of that Uranium will turn to lead in 703 million years. What matters is that it IS turning and you can’t measure how much already has. Add to that the lack of any supercoolant(good call), and surely you have a bomb lacking the same potenial it had thirty years ago.[/quote]

    ____________________________

    Uranium 235 decays to Thorium 231 not lead. in 30 years it can be measured and would still be about 99.999% effective, but now it will on be an atom bomb. It will not have the phased effect. But still quite a formidable blast. (Basically this 1954 Jughead H-Bomb is now a 1940’s little Boy A-Bomb)
    *****

    oh….well that makes sense. I did not know an HBomb can turn to an A. Please explain to me how this happens[/quote]

  217. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333835"]
    And Nadia, to make Sayid’s love triangle. :)[/quote]

    I actually wrote Nadia first, but since she never WAS on the island…

    : ) P

  218. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333837"][quote comment="333835"]
    And Nadia, to make Sayid’s love triangle. :)[/quote]

    I actually wrote Nadia first, but since she never WAS on the island…

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    She was…as Patchy’s cat….LOL.

  219. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333792"]I am starting to believe that there may be no Jacob. Rather just the idea of a Jacob- like the Wizard of Oz. There have been allusions to it- Henry Gale, the Man behind the Curtain, etc. What if Richard is the “real” Jacob- the one who pulls the strings, but does it as an “advisor” behind the scene. It’s much harder to stage a coup against a misterious figure than a person/ leader that is right there, so the idea of Jacob might just be a way to stay in control.[/quote]
    ___________________

    I had said something like this awhile back. He doesn’t want anybody to know his true identity.

  220. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333821"]Nice post Hammer…geez.[/quote]
    rookie……

  221. SimonSayz says:

    I wonder what Jack is going to do now with the bomb … i mean, it must be more than pushing a button. My guess is they will bring the bomb near the Swan station by the same way it went in the temple in 1954 (as Richard said) and then they will need Miles powers on Daniel’s body to have some answers on … what the hell do we do now!!!

    Maybe Daniel’s book contains enough info on what to do but I think that the real purpose of Miles being on the island is for this. Maybe Charles Withmore wanted Miles to come to the island to know exactly what Daniel had in mind before he died that could change WHH.

  222. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333813"][quote comment="333804"]
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?[/quote]

    Or, Alpert could just be referring to “everyone who was one the island” in 1977 – not thinking about the fact that Kate was on the sub. Kind of like if you look back at a photo of the kids in your neighborhood from when you were a kid. You might tell someone “they all moved away” when you don’t REALLY know that EVERYONE moved away. It’s kind of like the disagreement about “thirty years” passing. It is APPROXIMATELY thirty years, not EXACTLY thirty years.

    Who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ______________________
    Sure, that could be too. And maybe I’m splitting hairs her, but there are many people currently on the island who survive “the incident” – Horace, Radzinsky, Chang, Eloise, Richard, Widmore…

  223. steve says:

    [quote comment="333836"][quote comment="333765"]

    Uranium 235 decays to Thorium 231 not lead. in 30 years it can be measured and would still be about 99.999% effective, but now it will on be an atom bomb. It will not have the phased effect. But still quite a formidable blast. (Basically this 1954 Jughead H-Bomb is now a 1940’s little Boy A-Bomb)
    *****

    oh….well that makes sense. I did not know an HBomb can turn to an A. Please explain to

    me how this happens[/quote][/quote]

    The H-Bomb uses a U235 atomic bomb fission reaction to generate the heat needed to fuse the Hydrogen atoms in the deuterium. Basically an a-bomb is used to set the fuse on the h-Bomb phase. without the deuterium in a condensed and supercooled liquid state the only reaction we have is an atomic blast that generates the sun-like heat. the second phase of the blast, the fission phase will not take place.

  224. steve says:

    Why is that I write this atomic stuff down I feel the urge to put in that would generate a 1.21 jigawatt…

    here’s to Channeling Doc Brown.

  225. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="333843"][quote comment="333813"][quote comment="333804"]
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?[/quote]

    Or, Alpert could just be referring to “everyone who was one the island” in 1977 – not thinking about the fact that Kate was on the sub. Kind of like if you look back at a photo of the kids in your neighborhood from when you were a kid. You might tell someone “they all moved away” when you don’t REALLY know that EVERYONE moved away. It’s kind of like the disagreement about “thirty years” passing. It is APPROXIMATELY thirty years, not EXACTLY thirty years.

    Who knows.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ______________________
    Sure, that could be too. And maybe I’m splitting hairs her, but there are many people currently on the island who survive “the incident” – Horace, Radzinsky, Chang, Eloise, Richard, Widmore…[/quote]
    ________________________
    Or, perhaps he’s referring to “the purge”, and he’s talking about how he saw all the DI people die?

  226. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333843"]
    Sure, that could be too. And maybe I’m splitting hairs her, but there are many people currently on the island who survive “the incident” – Horace, Radzinsky, Chang, Eloise, Richard, Widmore…[/quote]

    Possibly.

    I see the “incident” as what happened because they drilled (ie, Jack was NOT able to stop it).

    The purge is what we know it.

    I am not sure that IF Jack is successful, this will be “THE” incident.

    : ) P

  227. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333804"][quote comment="333618"][quote comment="333609"]

    [quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?[/quote]
    _______________

    Right. That’s how I see it.

    [quote comment="333814"]So after watching this episode and listening to Jack and Kates conversation about changing things so that none of it happens I have decided that that would be the worst ending ever! Is it just me or does everyone else just want them all to live on the island happily ever after?[/quote]
    _________________

    Yeah I really don’t want it to happen like that commercial that has been playing. Just cause I see it doesn’t mean it will happen. LOL. Please don’t let the last episode be that 815 just flies to LA!

  228. MacGyver says:

    Thanks Steve…..You definately taught me something just now

  229. Frank says:

    [quote comment="333840"][quote comment="333792"]I am starting to believe that there may be no Jacob. Rather just the idea of a Jacob- like the Wizard of Oz. There have been allusions to it- Henry Gale, the Man behind the Curtain, etc. What if Richard is the “real” Jacob- the one who pulls the strings, but does it as an “advisor” behind the scene. It’s much harder to stage a coup against a misterious figure than a person/ leader that is right there, so the idea of Jacob might just be a way to stay in control.[/quote]
    ___________________

    I had said something like this awhile back. He doesn’t want anybody to know his true identity.[/quote]

    _____________

    I like this idea but wonder why RA would have a “leader” if he were “in charge” in the first place. Why have Widmore, Ben et al. if he could just be like “I am the emissary of Jacob. Give be your coconuts. He told me to say that.”

  230. doodle says:

    RA has never really taken action in any way. he has only given advice, hence the name, adviser

  231. steve says:

    [quote comment="333853"]Thanks Steve…..You definitely taught me something just now[/quote]

    I never thought I would have to use that knowledge. Something I always said … when will I ever need to know this stuff? I guess this is what that knowledge was for all these years.

  232. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="333854"][quote comment="333840"][quote comment="333792"]I am starting to believe that there may be no Jacob. Rather just the idea of a Jacob- like the Wizard of Oz. There have been allusions to it- Henry Gale, the Man behind the Curtain, etc. What if Richard is the “real” Jacob- the one who pulls the strings, but does it as an “advisor” behind the scene. It’s much harder to stage a coup against a misterious figure than a person/ leader that is right there, so the idea of Jacob might just be a way to stay in control.[/quote]
    ___________________

    I had said something like this awhile back. He doesn’t want anybody to know his true identity.[/quote]

    _____________

    I like this idea but wonder why RA would have a “leader” if he were “in charge” in the first place. Why have Widmore, Ben et al. if he could just be like “I am the emissary of Jacob. Give be your coconuts. He told me to say that.”[/quote]
    __________________

    Well, the leaders have changed throughout the years. It’s easier to “demote” someone and say “Jacob wanted it so””, then to be the leader and if there is disagreement have to deal with it. In other words, it’s easier being the man behind the “appointed” leader, because you’re not in the line of fire, but you can still have complete control. Not saying that Richard is realy doing this, but it ia a possibility.

  233. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="333700"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    When Ethan shot Locke it was in the past before the 815 flight even crashed because the beach craft was still up on the cliff (Locke was climbing up to it) and then Locke flashed again before ethan shot him to the time period where the beachcraft was on the ground and Richard came out to help him. 2 different flashes so nothing is amiss there. Also, we saw sawyer exist at the same time as himself when he saw claire having the baby and Locke before when he saw the hatch light go up into the sky and avoided going that way to not run into himself. This was just the first time someone actually saw themselves…I believe.[/quote]
    +++++
    Also, Miles sees himself as a baby.

  234. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="333856"][quote comment="333853"]Thanks Steve…..You definitely taught me something just now[/quote]

    I never thought I would have to use that knowledge. Something I always said … when will I ever need to know this stuff? I guess this is what that knowledge was for all these years.[/quote]
    ****

    Pretty handy now huh!!lol

  235. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333857"]
    Well, the leaders have changed throughout the years. It’s easier to “demote” someone and say “Jacob wanted it so””, then to be the leader and if there is disagreement have to deal with it. In other words, it’s easier being the man behind the “appointed” leader, because you’re not in the line of fire, but you can still have complete control. Not saying that Richard is realy doing this, but it ia a possibility.[/quote]

    Exactly! This is something I said a couple of days ago:

    [quote comment="333372"]
    It could just be Richard Alpert’s creation of a god who is all knowing and all mighty so that when Richard says, “Jacob says we must do X” and people don’t like it, Richard can shrug his shoulders and explain that he doesn’t make the rules, Jacob does.

    Perhaps Widmore, and later Ben, start to think it through and test Alpert by telling him that they hear Jacob’s instructions as well. Alpert, not wanting to admit he made it all up, plays along. Widmore and Ben each are lying, and suspect the other is, but everyone goes along to keep the secret.

    Then maybe Alpert plays Greg Brady and makes creepy things happen in the cabin with string and a tape recorder. It scares the life out of Ben, who starts to REALLY believe and makes a believer out of Locke, who essentially has looked his whole life for a sign that he really *is* special.

    : ) P[/quote]

    So maybe the “knowing looks” that Alpert and Ben gave each other were, “Oh crap” looks because they know that it isn’t long before Locke exposes their years of tyranny as lies!

    : ) P

  236. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="333742"]
    ________________

    So….Ben wasn’t watching in 2005? Um…I am really confused. Ok let me try it this way….
    Just answer each question and maybe I can follow.

    So did 2005 never really happen yet?

    Was Locke the one that told Richard in 2005 to tell his other self to do those things?

    Was Ben watching in 2005 and did he have the same conversation with Locke?
    quote]

    2005 Happened in 2005. Some of the people then may have traveled from different times. The scene we are discussing happened in 2007. The charactors in that scene were, Locke2005 (time traveled in the flashes to 2007), Locke2007, Ben2007 and Richard2007.

    Lock2007 told Richard2007 to tell Locke2005 those things. Locke2005 had flashed to Island2007 where Ben2007, RA2007 and Locke2007 were waiting.

    Ben was watching in 2007, not in 2005. Richard talked to Locke2005 in Island2007.

  237. JZ says:

    [quote comment="333858"][quote comment="333856"][quote comment="333853"]Thanks Steve…..You definitely taught me something just now[/quote]

    I never thought I would have to use that knowledge. Something I always said … when will I ever need to know this stuff? I guess this is what that knowledge was for all these years.[/quote]
    ****

    Pretty handy now huh!!lol[/quote]
    ***************

    Maybe that’s your destiny in this world…to explain to us all that knowledge LOL :P

  238. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="333855"]RA has never really taken action in any way. he has only given advice, hence the name, adviser[/quote]
    ++++++++
    In classic good vs evil stories God and the devil arn’t allowed to intervene directly. They tempt and suggest but have to allow free will to prevail.

  239. Twistedsisters says:

    If the sub can not leave and turns around then how did Rachel and baby Miles leave the Island?
    If Sawyer, Juliet and Kate make it back to the Island they do not make it back via that particular sub trip.

  240. sickb13 says:

    Like I said before I’m not too good at the story stuff, just the science stuff, but wouldn’t it make sense if Jacob was an incarnation of one of the variables in the time equation? I.e. his purpose was to balance the equation to preserve a WHH timeline. Something like Locke did in this episode to save himself? Maybe Jacob (and Richard?) are “eternal” only until certain events happen, so they could live as long as they were able to keep those events from happening?

    So maybe Jacob is sick of being immortal stuck on the island and now set the events in motion for Locke to take his place?

    Dunno… just a thought (or several) lol.

  241. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="333741"][quote comment="333738"]I too am confused about Ben being at the scene where Richard removes the bullet from John’s leg. Was he always there the first time around? And when John and Richard and Ben see John flash away, is that the period of time when we saw John flashing to different time periods before ultimately turning the FDW and leaving the island? Just wondering because that means that Richard,John and Ben are not in present time when they are watching John. Since the time travelling that John did happened some time ago. Does that make sense?[/quote]

    _________________

    John gets shot in the leg in 2004, and he then flashes forward to the time when the three stooges are there to see John come out the forest with the wound. This flash was just before Ethan tries to shoot him again. I was just impressed that gun shot wound did not move!!![/quote]

    Ok, so if John got shot in the leg in 2004, then are the 3 stooges actually in 2004 and not 2007? Does that make sense?

  242. Shadow says:

    um, never mind, I see that my question has been answered a few times now that I’m reading all the posts. Thanks Steve an Ra

  243. RGS says:

    Ok regarding this potential bomb detonation, are we to believe that this H bomb, or A bomb whatever, would detonate and the blast would not be something we could see evidence of simply because it is, let’s say 50 meters (and that’s being generous) under ground? Wouldn’t it have to be buried so far underground to have a negligible effect on Dharmaville? Is that what we as viewers should be preparing to stomach? If so, where was the Dharma shark during that underwater swim, because I’m thinking they will have to jump over it to escape the blast.

    I’m begging them to not have this bomb go off in any way possible. I would turn my tv off (probably turn it right back on after splashing some water on my face in the bathroom mirror).

    Am I expecting too much? I mean on the one hand I’m totally ready to accept Daniel speed reading his way to a Doctorate Degree from Oxford but I’m questioning the bomb stuff?

    Anyway, in my mind, this episode unequivocally killed any notion that Ben was murdering John because he knew he had to do it for the greater good. The only reason Locke was thinking he had to die was because he told RA to tell him. Couple that with Ben’s snide remarks to RA while going to see Jacob…and Ben is undoubtedly a selfish bastid. I was surprise to see RA getting himself all worked up over this change in circumstance.

  244. bolddeceiver says:

    Loving all the new theories after this great episode. Here’s a thought. What if the island is the promised land Moses led his people to in the Old Testament. Remember after leading his people there he was not allowed in. Could the island be this promised land? Are the others the descendants of the ancient people who left a life of slavery to find salvation? Remember Moses is a descendant of Jacob.

    Any thoughts?

    Also it’s looking to me like Locke is Jacob. I think that may be what RA wanted to talk to John about in private. I think for some reason Ben began to suspect this after Locke could hear Jacob in the cabin. Then fearing Locke’s (Jacob’s) future retribution for his actions Ben tries to kill him twice. Ben was surprised when Locke survived the first time but must have thought it would surely work off island. He was absolutely terrified when he realized that John was still alive. He knows now there is nothing he can do to stop him.

  245. Steve says:

    [quote comment="333876"]Ok regarding this potential bomb detonation, are we to believe that this H bomb, or A bomb whatever, would detonate and the blast would not be something we could see evidence of simply because it is, let’s say 50 meters (and that’s being generous) under ground? Wouldn’t it have to be buried so far underground to have a negligible effect on Dharmaville? Is that what we as viewers should be preparing to stomach? If so, where was the Dharma shark during that underwater swim, because I’m thinking they will have to jump over it to escape the blast.

    I’m begging them to not have this bomb go off in any way possible. I would turn my tv off (probably turn it right back on after splashing some water on my face in the bathroom mirror).

    Am I expecting too much? I mean on the one hand I’m totally ready to accept Daniel speed reading his way to a Doctorate Degree from Oxford but I’m questioning the bomb stuff?

    Anyway, in my mind, this episode unequivocally killed any notion that Ben was murdering John because he knew he had to do it for the greater good. The only reason Locke was thinking he had to die was because he told RA to tell him.

    Couple that with Ben’s snide remarks to RA while going to see Jacob…and Ben is undoubtedly a selfish bastid. I was surprise to see RA getting himself all worked up over this change in circumstance.[/quote]

    Keep in mind that that type of device was dropped from an aircraft by parachute. The device detonates at around 2000 ft for maximum outflow impact. detonated while buried would cause a hell of a bulge at the surface, but not the same impact.

    On another note. I am feeling sorry for the others because Locke does not have a great record of success. If Locke is a result of Locke then they are in big trouble.

  246. Steve says:

    [quote comment="333868"][quote comment="333741"][quote comment="333738"]I too am confused about Ben being at the scene where Richard removes the bullet from John’s leg. Was he always there the first time around? And when John and Richard and Ben see John flash away, is that the period of time when we saw John flashing to different time periods before ultimately turning the FDW and leaving the island? Just wondering because that means that Richard,John and Ben are not in present time when they are watching John. Since the time travelling that John did happened some time ago. Does that make sense?[/quote]

    _________________

    John gets shot in the leg in 2004, and he then flashes forward to the time when the three stooges are there to see John come out the forest with the wound. This flash was just before Ethan tries to shoot him again. I was just impressed that gun shot wound did not move!!![/quote]

    Ok, so if John got shot in the leg in 2004, then are the 3 stooges actually in 2004 and not 2007? Does that make sense?[/quote]
    ***************************

    Three stooges are in 2007. John flashed to the future after being shot by Ethan in the pre – 2004 flash.

  247. wally p says:

    lost is going for everyone so were lost about all these ideas Jacob will be found as a different idenity that locke knows from his past

  248. Duke says:

    [quote comment="333733"][quote comment="333726"]
    What you have described is WHH. What if that is not right, and things have changed? If they are able to detonate, there will be no need for the fail safe.

    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.

    They can get Jughead out by taking the tunnels – remember the hatch map! they do not need to go through the village to get to the location of the swan site.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Yea thats the ultimate question right now. Is WHH true or can time be changed? I think that WHH is true and I am sticking to it. Could be wrong but I guess we will find out next week.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    WHH cannot possibly be true. Why would they be there if they could not effect events?

  249. Duke says:

    [quote comment="333745"][quote comment="333744"]locke gets shot in 2004…by ethan…flashes to 2007..where ben richard and now dead locke are..ded lock tells RA to go help wounded lock…so dead lock..ben and RA watching are in 2007…so this is the first time bens sees this because its the first time its been 2007 for ben…but for lock it the second time its been 2007…cause he was flashing…2005 ben is off somewhere in tanzania[/quote]

    _____________________
    Exactly. Well put.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    You are assuming that when Locke tells Alpert to go help LOcke that it is 2007. What is your reasoning?

  250. Duke says:

    [quote comment="333754"]how do we know it is 2004 when we see the foot…and couldnt the others be building it in peices and thats the first peice to go up…cause if there arent building..i think the better question would be..2004..where is the rest of that hundred something foot statue…if it fell some time in the past…there would be a pretty big mess…right…like way more than a foot lyin around…youd have to assume there would be an arm..a staff..big chunk of a back…somethin…my bet is in the future…and they need clare to have babies[/quote]
    ______________________________
    If it wasn’t next to the ocean you may be right. Logic indicates that it was destroyed and it’s rubble fell to the bottom of the ocean.

  251. Duke says:

    [quote comment="333821"]Nice post Hammer…geez.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    That is what I say about all your posts Hammer :)

  252. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="333900"]
    You are assuming that when Locke tells Alpert to go help LOcke that it is 2007. What is your reasoning?[/quote]

    No assumption made. We know it is “thirty years later” than 1977. Ergo Locke et al crashed (er, landed on the runway) in 2007. Locke and Ben take Alpert on an errand in that same time period.

    : ) P

  253. chop says:

    Jack es Jacob? y todavía no no sabe??

  254. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="333842"]I wonder what Jack is going to do now with the bomb … i mean, it must be more than pushing a button. My guess is they will bring the bomb near the Swan station by the same way it went in the temple in 1954 (as Richard said) and then they will need Miles powers on Daniel’s body to have some answers on … what the hell do we do now!!![/quote]
    _______________________________

    I am pretty sure Miles’s powers only work for figuring out how the person died, he cant just have a conversation with them about whatever he chooses. Could be wrong but I think I remember him explaining it to Hurley.

  255. Steve says:

    [quote comment="333917"]Jack es Jacob? y todavía no no sabe??[/quote]
    Is Jack Jacob? and do we still not know?
    _______________

    Habla solamente un poquito espanol.
    I only speak a litle spanish.

    sí, no se sabe aún. Podría ser sota, podría ser Juan, nadie lo sabe. Podría ser alguien más
    yes, it is not known yet. Could be jack, could be John, no one knows. It could be someone else.

    Por favor, después en Inglés para todos los demás.
    Please post in English for everyone else.

  256. Steve says:

    I think I look forward to Lost as much as I look forward reading this blog and sharing with you all.
    If anyone is in the Dallas TX area, let me know through the blog – we should get a beer and talk Lost

  257. Steve says:

    [quote comment="333892"][quote comment="333733"][quote comment="333726"]
    What you have described is WHH. What if that is not right, and things have changed? If they are able to detonate, there will be no need for the fail safe.

    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.

    They can get Jughead out by taking the tunnels – remember the hatch map! they do not need to go through the village to get to the location of the swan site.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Yea thats the ultimate question right now. Is WHH true or can time be changed? I think that WHH is true and I am sticking to it. Could be wrong but I guess we will find out next week.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    WHH cannot possibly be true. Why would they be there if they could not effect events?[/quote]

    *************************************
    I am with you Duke. It would be really disappointing in the end if they could not change anything.

  258. Charles Pace says:

    get ready to be disappointed then

  259. Shadow says:

    I have loved this blog this season (my first season on the blog). It has helped me get from Wednesday to Wednesday. What am I to do next week after the finale? Is the blog gonna keep going on until next year? Will there be much activity? What will we talk about?
    How am I going to get through so many months without LOST?
    Wo is me!!!!!!!!!!!!

  260. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="333935"][quote comment="333892"][quote comment="333733"][quote comment="333726"]
    What you have described is WHH. What if that is not right, and things have changed? If they are able to detonate, there will be no need for the fail safe.

    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.

    They can get Jughead out by taking the tunnels – remember the hatch map! they do not need to go through the village to get to the location of the swan site.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Yea thats the ultimate question right now. Is WHH true or can time be changed? I think that WHH is true and I am sticking to it. Could be wrong but I guess we will find out next week.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    WHH cannot possibly be true. Why would they be there if they could not effect events?[/quote]

    *************************************
    I am with you Duke. It would be really disappointing in the end if they could not change anything.[/quote]
    ______________________________________________
    So there are two types of time travel. The physical and the consiousness – Desmond. Was Eloise course correction for Desmond? How could she have possibly known to find him in the ring shop? Fate/the island brought them together and she must have been reliving it a second time as well as she remembers the first iteration. I think Desmond and Eloise are the ones that might be able to change things and break WHH if that is possible without fate intervening as Eloise suggests.

    As far as we know for the physical time travelers, it could be just WHH. I’m not sure, but I disagree with Duke that it can’t be WHH. They could be there because they were always there. The island works in mysterious ways, it brought them there do something, but maybe we are just seeing it play out now as it always has.

  261. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333933"]I think I look forward to Lost as much as I look forward reading this blog and sharing with you all.
    If anyone is in the Dallas TX area, let me know through the blog – we should get a beer and talk Lost[/quote]
    _______________

    I am in Dallas and have a group of people hooked LOL. Well actually Arlington, right by new stadium. My yahoo id is lostaddict9 if you ever want to chat.

  262. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="333935"][quote comment="333892"][quote comment="333733"][quote comment="333726"]
    What you have described is WHH. What if that is not right, and things have changed? If they are able to detonate, there will be no need for the fail safe.

    See Comment 115 on this thread. I don’t believe WHH, and neither did Daniel, or Eloise. Jack is starting to believe.

    They can get Jughead out by taking the tunnels – remember the hatch map! they do not need to go through the village to get to the location of the swan site.[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    Yea thats the ultimate question right now. Is WHH true or can time be changed? I think that WHH is true and I am sticking to it. Could be wrong but I guess we will find out next week.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    WHH cannot possibly be true. Why would they be there if they could not effect events?[/quote]

    *************************************
    I am with you Duke. It would be really disappointing in the end if they could not change anything.[/quote]
    ___________________________-

    Only other explanation is that WHH and this is all of them being enlightened. They will learn their destiny. They have to go back to realize what they are supposed to do next and why it is for the greater good. I still think it’s because they are supposed to change something. Did anyone watch the Fringe this week? Time traveling in a strait line part? Might explain my thought. Even if you take one path, their is always another path. Another reality. ANother choice that you didn’t take.

  263. Mateo says:

    im waiting for the scene where one of the oceanic 6 tell Charles Whitmore something about the future… as to might be the reason he makes a fortune to have the means of finding the island again (ie. SuperBowl bets, etc) hahaha

  264. Craig says:

    I think Sawyer and Juliet will end up stuck on the island in the past as “Adam and Eve”. They’ve tried several times to leave before, but never quite made it off:

    Juliet forced to stay on island by Ben until work is done.
    Sawyer fails to leave island in raft with Michael, Walt, and Jin.
    Juliet fails to leave island with Jack in sub.
    Sawyer fails to leave island with Oceanic 6 in helicopter.
    Sawyer convinces Juliet to stay on the island and not leave with the sub.
    Sawyer and Juliet will fail to leave island again in sub b/c probably Kate talks them into going back to stop Jack, b/c otherwise they will never be together.

    I think that Sawyer and Juliet are destined to never leave the island. In fact they will probably end up going back into the past to the island to become “Adam and Eve”. This would be ironic b/c Sawyer was giddy at the prospect of living in the outside with the knowledge of the past (i.e. Microsoft and Cowboys) in the latest show. Instead, they would be stuck further in the past on the island, not being able to take advantage of their knowledge of the past in the real world.

  265. Ament20 says:

    Keeping with the plot of the show and the jaw dropping events to unfold…IMO maybe Walt’s dream of locke is going to happen but not the locke we know. If Jacob = John then in Walt’s dream it’s Jacob he sees and then yes Walt’s dream would be accurate.

    Sense we know Jacob has obviously been there a long time i’m thinking one last time shift is to come to put John in that rocking chair and being the cabin is made from the trees of the island it time shifts with the island.

  266. LostJunkie says:

    I think we’re going to see a time flash in the season finale next week, because I think we’re going to see a Sun-Jin reunion next week. I don’t think they are going to wait until next season for that to happen, but I could be wrong. I also think it’s possible we will see Christian, Claire, and Walt next week. And Rose and Bernard and Vincent, too.

  267. The Kath says:

    I would love it if some one could remind me what we last saw/knew of Bernard and Rose. While they are not major characters they are definitely a good mainstay of the show and I find it lame that they have not been addressed in so long. Shouldn’t they be running around on the island somewhere?

  268. LostJunkie says:

    The last time we saw Bernard and Rose, they were running from the beach and into the jungle along with the other Losties when that attack came, when they were running from the arrows I think, something like that. We saw Bernard and Rose (and Vincent, I believe) run off apart from the ones that got away (Sawyer, Juliet, etc), and that’s the last we saw of them.

  269. PJSander says:

    Originally, I thought that Sawyer and Jin, while searching for Locke to return, would have found the rest of “LaFleur’s crew” and brought Rose and Bernard into the DHARMA fold. Since we haven’t seen that yet, I have to believe that they got themselves to the beach and have made a life for themselves down there, possibly with a few yet-to-be killed redshirts.

    I agree that we’ll likely see R&B in the finale, not sure about Claire (since Emilie deRavin isn’t supposed to be appearing this season, but that could be a nice twist) or Walt.

    I don’t know if we will see Sun and Jin reunite yet. In the weeks before Penny and Desmond reunited, they left hints, gave us hope, and built up the suspense so that when Penny FIRST saw Desmond, we held our collective breath. I still get goosebumps when I see that scene, even a dozen viewings later.

    We haven’t HAD that kind of build up for Sun and Jin. They’ve been apart three years – the same as Penny and Desmond – but we really haven’t seen them pining for each other. I HOPE that we see some of Yunjin and Daniel Dae’s BEST work leading up to their reunion. They are both talented, and to-date this season, sadly underused actors.

    : ) P

  270. Tasha says:

    SO maybe this has been said before, but since Adam and Eve had a black and white stone could this be a clue that it WILL be Rose and Bernard? Just a thought.

  271. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="333804"][quote comment="333618"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]

    Well it is possible that Richard THINKS they all die but the explosion sets off another purple sky event that sends them all to 2007.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?[/quote]
    ****************
    I really like this idea…that they flash and RA thinks they are killed…good thought!
    -miss

  272. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="333804"][quote comment="333618"][quote comment="333609"]The thing that gets me is that Richard said that he saw all of the losties die right in front of him. So if WHH is true (assuming they die in the incident and not something else) than they are just all going to die. So for the sake of the show, WHH must be able to be changed and Jack will stop the incident. But if he stops the incident, he could kill everyone anyhow. What the hell?[/quote]

    Well it is possible that Richard THINKS they all die but the explosion sets off another purple sky event that sends them all to 2007.

    : ) P[/quote]

    [quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Regarding these posts above, when RA said he “saw them all die”, it was in response to Sun’s question about Jack, Hurley and Kate. So something must happen that gets Kate back to the island and “die” or “flash” or whatever they do, right?[/quote]
    ****************
    PJ…i think this is great! I like the idea that they flash and it leads RA to think they were killed…great theory!
    -miss
    -miss

  273. Farahallen says:

    [quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    I was thinking the same thing about the fake sub lol. I thought that was poorly done it looked like a scene from Power Ranger. As for the get-away losties there not getting off of no island. I put money on them Startrack beaming out of there as quick as you can say 4,8,15,16,23,42

  274. Farahallen says:

    [quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    I like the Lock is a ghost idea. That would explain him knowing everything and being so cool and collected. Lock has no personility anymore like a island ghost. Ben told him that Richard was up to something but yet Lock didnt even blink a eye. Thats not like Lock, even Know it all Lock.

  275. Farahallen says:

    [quote comment="334062"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    I like the Lock is a ghost idea. That would explain him knowing everything and being so cool and collected. Lock has no personility anymore like a island ghost. Ben told him that Richard was up to something but yet Lock didnt even blink a eye. Thats not like Lock, even Know it all Lock.[/quote]
    (Needed spell check sorry people)
    That would explain him knowing everything and being so cool and collected. Lock has no personality anymore like a island ghost. Ben told him that Richard was up to something but yet Lock didn’t even blink a eye. That’s not like Lock, even Know it all Lock.

  276. Farahallen says:

    [quote comment="334062"][quote comment="333697"]There are two things really bugging me…And both were mentioned earlier.

    1) When Locke and Alpert went to the beachcraft so Alpert can tell “past” Locke he has to die or whatever….Ethan WAS the one that shot him…but we had killed Ethan off…My question is WHEN the 316ers (Lapidus, Sun, Locke)ended up after they hit down on the island. I also didn’t like the fact that Locke and Locke could exist at the same time. Maybe Locke is this “ghost” or “entity” that we don’t really understand yet.

    2) I agree with an earlier post that the incident doesn’t kill everyone on the whole island, or maybe the incident doesn’t happen at all. REMEMBER, Horace has to still build the cabin. Also, it’s obvious that Widmore still lives on the island for another 10-15 years before he is exiled.[/quote]
    I like the Lock is a ghost idea. That would explain him knowing everything and being so cool and collected. Lock has no personility anymore like a island ghost. Ben told him that Richard was up to something but yet Lock didnt even blink a eye. Thats not like Lock, even Know it all Lock.[/quote]
    (Needed spell check sorry people)

  277. PJSander says:

    Okay, so I started reading The Stand a couple of days ago. Haven’t read enough to pull parallels, but I did come across something. An “incident” happened and the clock stopped with six numbers showing the time and date.

    I wonder if perhaps April 8, 2015 at 4:23:42 pm will enter into our story? The idea seemed far-fetched in 2004, but now…

    04-08-15 16:23:42

    : ) P

  278. LICU says:

    Eloise could be pregnant with Penny??? We don’t know who Penny’s mother is…
    Have we seen any others’ children? Maybe Daniel is roaming around the tents somewhere which is why Eloise isn’t shocked when Daniel says he is her son..
    Anyhow, who the heck are these others? Are they aliens who made a big statue…? They do seem to die (not healed by magic island).
    Great episode, can’t believe there is only one season left (after next week).

  279. Mrs.Awesome says:

    Woah.. I watched an episode of Star Trek :Next Generation last night. The episode was entitled
    “All good things…”.this episode made so many references an brought many theories to scope about time and the maganatic energy they spoke about in Follow the leader here a examples of what I found

    1)There were time jumps

    2)There was an ageless character Data that seemed similar to RA. However Data was a robot ,so is RA a robot?

    3)There is an anomily of energy similar to the magnetic that is going to destroy the human race if it is not stopped and in order to stop it they had to stop it in at the same time in diffrent periods of time for example 2004 Jack may have to explode or have something to with admitting energies. 1977 JAck may have to admitt energy at the same time as well has 2007 jack or Locke may have admitt enrgy all at the same time to destroy the magnetic pockets of energy.
    3)The Captin(John Luke) and the doctor have similar struggles to jack and Kates
    4)Theres a quick refrence to LaFlaur
    5)People bagan to heal because of “anti-time” disruped normal time and gave of temporal energy enough to heal the blind and other crew member scars much like the healing process of Rose and Locke
    6)In the episode a crew member loses her baby in birth because the time anomoly caused baby fetuses to regenerate and grow younger thus die HMNN sounds like ummmmmmmm. lost
    7)It explains the time pardox perfectly that would be cohesieve with the Island in lost.

    Watch this episode of star Trek it would blow you mind and make you understand lost a little better let me know what you think
    MRS.AWESOME

  280. PJSander says:

    And as long as we are on the subject of books, I posted this in the “Bad Twin” thread a couple of months ago, but since it is a three year old thread, it was never going to get any input.

    I have read, at long last, The Bad Twin written by “Gary Troup” who was the guy sucked through the engine in the pilot. Other than a couple of “throwaway” lines, I haven’t really found anything particularly significant.

    EXCEPT: The novel was published in 2006, but was supposedly written PRIOR to the September 2004 crash of O815 (in which the author perished). However, in the novel, a friend of Paul, the main character, tells Paul that the Scottish Feudal system was not formally abolished until November 2004. While this is TRUE (http://www.hmitchell.co.uk/abolition-of-feudal-tenure.htm), November 2004 was two months AFTER the O815 crash. Granted the act was in the works since 2000, but the character SPECIFICALLY mentions a date IN THE FUTURE (to him) when in the book, he speaks as if it has ALREADY happened.

    Is this an error? A sign? Ideas?

    If it makes a difference, I am reading the First Edition.

    : ) P

  281. Mrs.Awesome says:

    [quote comment="334065"]Okay, so I started reading The Stand a couple of days ago. Haven’t read enough to pull parallels, but I did come across something. An “incident” happened and the clock stopped with six numbers showing the time and date.

    I wonder if perhaps April 8, 2015 at 4:23:42 pm will enter into our story? The idea seemed far-fetched in 2004, but now…

    04-08-15 16:23:42

    : ) P[/quote]
    _______________________________________________
    I liked this idea i never thought of the numbers being a date . So most defentily thy are probably goingb to write into next season and Something Big probley happens on that date maybe they get off island that date Hurley remember these #’s some how and none of the losties remember however when hurley hears these #’s he opens pandora’s box againa and they flash back to 2004 and re-live it all again.
    Thanx for that thought PJ

  282. sickb13 says:

    [quote comment="334061"][quote comment="333685"]I wonder how S,J, and K get off the sub. That scene looked really fake when the sub left. Just pointing that out. I think they will flash back to the island or they will take over somehow. Just face it, there is NO WAY that those 3 wont be in the finale. MAYBE Sawyer and Julliet, but when Kate got up there, I knew they aren’t just going back to the “real world.” I don’t even think they can just go back. Dan never said that but i don’t think they are ever supposed to exist in this time off that island! Of course I may be wrong, unless they get off AGAIN and have to find their way back AGAIN.[/quote]
    I was thinking the same thing about the fake sub lol.
    ————————————-

    Yeah that sub had the rendering of a friggen 1990’s era console game – wtf? You could actually see the aliasing around the edges. I mean c’mon, I admit I can be hyper-critical of CGI but that was just plain half assed.

  283. steve says:

    Interesting addition to the Locke is a ghost idea. Ben say’s this to john

    BEN: This must be quite the out-of-body experience.

    LOCKE: Something like that.

    Very interesting.

  284. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="334067"]Eloise could be pregnant with Penny??? We don’t know who Penny’s mother is…
    Have we seen any others’ children? Maybe Daniel is roaming around the tents somewhere which is why Eloise isn’t shocked when Daniel says he is her son..
    Anyhow, who the heck are these others? Are they aliens who made a big statue…? They do seem to die (not healed by magic island).
    Great episode, can’t believe there is only one season left (after next week).[/quote]
    *****************************
    I will have to rewatch and see if she looks pregnant…didn’t catch her touching her tummy. I asked this in an earlier thread…how old is Dan? Do we know? I thought he seemed older than Miles and we know that Miles is a baby right now…so…wouldn’t Dan be in that camp as a young kid? And at what point do her and Dan leave the island and why?
    Also…it is interesting that the island only heals some people. For this reason I think we will see Rose and Bernard again as she was cured of her cancer. She knew that the island was special just as Locke did.
    -miss

  285. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="334075"]Interesting addition to the Locke is a ghost idea. Ben say’s this to john

    BEN: This must be quite the out-of-body experience.

    LOCKE: Something like that.

    Very interesting.[/quote]
    ___________________

    Oh yes. Interesting. Plus if my “shadow” idea is correct than even better. Now where recently have I seen or heard something about the soul lately? The Fringe or Lost? I am starting to get the two shows confused. I might have to watch the whole season of one or the other at different times….

  286. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="334067"]Eloise could be pregnant with Penny??? We don’t know who Penny’s mother is…
    ).[/quote]

    Doubt it. Widmore was baned for having a baby with an outsider- I think THAT is Penny.

  287. Miss lost says:

    I was wondering if anyone else thought it might be possible that Eloise was hoping Dan could change the past and in doing so make it so she would NOT shoot him. She slapped Whidmore as if to say don’t talk to me about sacrifices…you know I am potentially sending our son back to that island knowing that I shot him back in 1977…but doesn’t it seem like the events have changed and that is why she and Whidmore do not know what will happen next? All this is new…she was not able to send all of the correct people back and that is why she told Ben “God help us” when he asked “what if I can’t get them to all go back?” Since they all did not go back she does not know what is going to happen!
    -Miss

  288. Toeknee says:

    Someone pointed this out on another blog I read….

    In the “Namaste” episode, when Hurley, Jack and Kate first arrive back in 1977, Hurley asks Sawyer, “What if they start asking us questions we can’t answer, like, uh, who’s president in 1977?”

    Great foreshadowing to this episode!

  289. Kathy P says:

    Someone had posted that they thought Grandpa Ray could be Locke’s dad. I like this idea. If Ray Shephard is the Father the Christian Shepard is the Son and maybe Locke is the Holy Ghost? That would mean that Locke wore his brothers shoes in the coffin on the flight back to the island. And Claire would be related to him as well. It seems strange looking back at the cabin scene with Christian and Clair talking to Locke. So where would that leave Jack? Jacob maybe

  290. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334092"]Someone had posted that they thought Grandpa Ray could be Locke’s dad. I like this idea. If Ray Shephard is the Father the Christian Shepard is the Son and maybe Locke is the Holy Ghost? That would mean that Locke wore his brothers shoes in the coffin on the flight back to the island. And Claire would be related to him as well. It seems strange looking back at the cabin scene with Christian and Clair talking to Locke. So where would that leave Jack? Jacob maybe[/quote]
    _________________________________

    This is awesome…It’s also been posted before that the shephard bloodline is crucial to the whole Lost story….i agree on both accounts!

  291. steve says:

    [quote comment="334088"]I was wondering if anyone else thought it might be possible that Eloise was hoping Dan could change the past and in doing so make it so she would NOT shoot him. She slapped Whidmore as if to say don’t talk to me about sacrifices…you know I am potentially sending our son back to that island knowing that I shot him back in 1977…but doesn’t it seem like the events have changed and that is why she and Whidmore do not know what will happen next? All this is new…she was not able to send all of the correct people back and that is why she told Ben “God help us” when he asked “what if I can’t get them to all go back?” Since they all did not go back she does not know what is going to happen!
    -Miss[/quote]
    *******************************************

    I had a similar idea in Post # 19 –> read as follows:

    the past may have change because this time Jack, Kate & Co. were sent back as well. Remember, the Hospital scenes appears to take place the night of the Ajira flight, and Eloise had already arranged to have the Oceanic people on the flight. Then in 1977, Daniel tells Jack that they were not supposed to be there and Eloise was wrong about their destiny. IMO Daniel was right and the Oceanic folks were not supposed to be there in the WHH scenario. By injecting this change, outcomes may change and this why for the first time in a long time Eloise does not know what will happen next.

    In other words Daniels Past was unchanged, from his point of view, The Oceanic present is still rolling on, but the Island’s future, and the off-island present/past/future may be changed.

    I am assuming that the Hospital scenes are taking place in Desmond’s, Penny’s, and little Charley’s Present, but taking place in Eloise’s, and Charles Widmore’s past.

  292. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="333972"]Keeping with the plot of the show and the jaw dropping events to unfold…IMO maybe Walt’s dream of locke is going to happen but not the locke we know. If Jacob = John then in Walt’s dream it’s Jacob he sees and then yes Walt’s dream would be accurate.

    Sense we know Jacob has obviously been there a long time i’m thinking one last time shift is to come to put John in that rocking chair and being the cabin is made from the trees of the island it time shifts with the island.[/quote]
    +++++++
    This makes a lot of sense to me.

  293. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334112"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXDk7zIp6pE[/quote]
    ******

    interesting but this isn’t making sense in my brain as far as timeline…unless sawyer and juliet (and some others) do in fact stay stuck in 1977 and age up until this point (30 years later)

    any other thoughts?

  294. Vaughn K says:

    I just thought of this. There is no way that jughead is going to be detonated if they writers want to keep this show realistic. A hydrogen bomb is far more powerful than an atomic bomb and look what it did to Japan. If Jughead blew up, the ENTIRE island would be wiped out..not just dead people but i am talking vegetation, barracks, everything. In 27 years, all of the vegetation and such would not have grown back fully yet like it is. It takes decades for that to happen. Plus like some have mentioned all this is happening right now before Widmore even gets exiled and we saw the island which looked pretty intact and not scorched Earth.

    The only way I can see the bomb getting blown up next week is if they somehow manage to minimize the explosion but since how Jack is not a scientist and has no knowledge of bombs, I dont think they will figure out how to do this.

  295. Vaughn K says:

    P.S. This is assuming WHH is true.

  296. Mike says:

    I am not sure if anyone posted this yet, I have not read through all the posts yet. I was wondering about this whole “Jug Head” thing with Jack trying to follow what Daniel laid out. Maybe he does detonate the bomb and by doing so that is how we only see the 4 toed statue left in present island time versus what they showed earlier in the season. It appeared to be some sort of Egyptian statue when they were flashing. Just a thought.

  297. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334116"]I just thought of this. There is no way that jughead is going to be detonated if they writers want to keep this show realistic. A hydrogen bomb is far more powerful than an atomic bomb and look what it did to Japan. If Jughead blew up, the ENTIRE island would be wiped out..not just dead people but i am talking vegetation, barracks, everything. In 27 years, all of the vegetation and such would not have grown back fully yet like it is. It takes decades for that to happen. Plus like some have mentioned all this is happening right now before Widmore even gets exiled and we saw the island which looked pretty intact and not scorched Earth.

    The only way I can see the bomb getting blown up next week is if they somehow manage to minimize the explosion but since how Jack is not a scientist and has no knowledge of bombs, I dont think they will figure out how to do this.[/quote]
    **************
    I definitely agree that this bomb doesn’t necessarily go off…but let’s say it does…the island does have incredible healing properties…maybe it can heal itself much faster like the other miracles we’ve seen.

  298. steve says:

    [quote comment="334119"][quote comment="334116"]I just thought of this. There is no way that jughead is going to be detonated if they writers want to keep this show realistic. A hydrogen bomb is far more powerful than an atomic bomb and look what it did to Japan. If Jughead blew up, the ENTIRE island would be wiped out..not just dead people but i am talking vegetation, barracks, everything. In 27 years, all of the vegetation and such would not have grown back fully yet like it is. It takes decades for that to happen. Plus like some have mentioned all this is happening right now before Widmore even gets exiled and we saw the island which looked pretty intact and not scorched Earth.

    The only way I can see the bomb getting blown up next week is if they somehow manage to minimize the explosion but since how Jack is not a scientist and has no knowledge of bombs, I dont think they will figure out how to do this.[/quote]
    **************
    I definitely agree that this bomb doesn’t necessarily go off…but let’s say it does…the island does have incredible healing properties…maybe it can heal itself much faster like the other miracles we’ve seen.[/quote]

    Only the first phase of the explosion will take place, because the deuterium will have dissipated, and if it is underground the blast will not devastate the island. the Bomb would have to be hoisted over 2000 feet above the target to get the downflow effect of the blast and ensuing shock wave.

    See Posts 115, 204, and 223 – except I typoed the last line in 223 and fission should be fusion.

  299. Rita says:

    [quote comment="334116"] … but since how Jack is not a scientist and has no knowledge of bombs, I dont think they will figure out how to do this.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Yes we assume that Jack knows nothing of bombs, but Sayid is with him. Sayid probably DOES know about bombs and will be the key. Plus, we have Daniel’s journal and what ever “instructions” he may have left.

  300. wallyp says:

    HEY! What the HELL does Jack know about detonating bombs? Let alone where he’s supposed to detonate it, right? WTF?!

    I have a couple minutes at work, so I’m just rambling a little here. This was truly one of those classic WTF episodes for me. I loved it, but I have no idea what to expect next. None! I was glad to see middle-aged Eloise get in the water and get wet. Its good to know that she didn’t let herself go to waste, seeing as how she was so banging in 1954.

    That older Juliet video a couple posts back really creeped me out!

    Ok, thats it for now!

  301. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="334121"]
    Only the first phase of the explosion will take place, because the deuterium will have dissipated, and if it is underground the blast will not devastate the island. the Bomb would have to be hoisted over 2000 feet above the target to get the downflow effect of the blast and ensuing shock wave.

    See Posts 115, 204, and 223 – except I typoed the last line in 223 and fission should be fusion.[/quote]
    _________________________________

    Thats a good point but I dont think some things should be overthought for the sake of the audience like I doubt everyone was thinking what you are thinking…its like the time traveling people that know quantum physics and stuff are trying to explain it but the writers prob assumed that the bulk of the audience does not know quantum physics lol so they planned on a simpler answer

  302. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="333904"][quote comment="333821"]Nice post Hammer…geez.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    That is what I say about all your posts Hammer :)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Likewise. ;)

  303. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="333972"]Keeping with the plot of the show and the jaw dropping events to unfold…IMO maybe Walt’s dream of locke is going to happen but not the locke we know. If Jacob = John then in Walt’s dream it’s Jacob he sees and then yes Walt’s dream would be accurate.

    Sense we know Jacob has obviously been there a long time i’m thinking one last time shift is to come to put John in that rocking chair and being the cabin is made from the trees of the island it time shifts with the island.[/quote]
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Except for the island wasn’t time shifting. The losties were :(

  304. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="334116"]I just thought of this. There is no way that jughead is going to be detonated if they writers want to keep this show realistic. A hydrogen bomb is far more powerful than an atomic bomb and look what it did to Japan. If Jughead blew up, the ENTIRE island would be wiped out..not just dead people but i am talking vegetation, barracks, everything. In 27 years, all of the vegetation and such would not have grown back fully yet like it is. It takes decades for that to happen. Plus like some have mentioned all this is happening right now before Widmore even gets exiled and we saw the island which looked pretty intact and not scorched Earth.

    The only way I can see the bomb getting blown up next week is if they somehow manage to minimize the explosion but since how Jack is not a scientist and has no knowledge of bombs, I dont think they will figure out how to do this.[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————

    I disagree (about your predictions merits).

    The only thing that the condition of the island when Whidmore is exiled tells us is that the hydrogen bomb DIDNT GO OFF IN THE PAST.

    Have you forgotten that this is a question of wheather or not they can CHANGE THE PAST?

    Also, We all know that Jack is not a scientist, but is he the only one in the room?

    Sayid may very well have experience in dealing with explosive ordinance. (AND, UM……..HE’S STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO JACK).

    Also, check out post #223 it will give you a better understanding as to why the H-bomb will no longer be acting like an H-bomb

    Who’s to say that the magnetic power in the island isn’t comparable to that of whatever kind of nuclear blast you want to talk aboout?

    It seems like you just wanted to PooPoo on someone’s ideas w/out giving it much thought. I don’t know whos, but your whole comment is trying to refute ideas you heard, not submit ones of your own——–Kind of like this one : )

  305. The Kath says:

    For all the anti-Kate posters earlier: I do think the Kate character has gotten watered down but she still serves several purposes. She is a strong part to Jack’s integrity. If she doesn’t believe and support him then his character loses validity. She is also around to give dynamics (albeit a thorn in the side of Juliet) to Sawyer”s romantic relations. I was really thrilled that she got Aaron to his grandmother, especially with all the “I’m his mother!” and “Your not even related to him!” talk.

  306. Rumblestilskin says:

    To The Kath:

    i have a theory that makes Kate even more important than all of the support roles that you named.

    I just got through rewatching the ep “What Kate Did” (S2 E9). In that episode, kate is nursing Sawyer back from being shot on the boat.

    Sawyer is asleep, he wakes up abruptly, and says to Kate: “Why did you kill me?” Kate takes this to be the spirit of her stepfather whom she killed.

    I Hereby predict that Sawyer was seeing the future in his dream, and Kate does actually kill Sawyer. (write it down)

  307. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334132"]For all the anti-Kate posters earlier: I do think the Kate character has gotten watered down but she still serves several purposes. She is a strong part to Jack’s integrity. If she doesn’t believe and support him then his character loses validity. She is also around to give dynamics (albeit a thorn in the side of Juliet) to Sawyer”s romantic relations. I was really thrilled that she got Aaron to his grandmother, especially with all the “I’m his mother!” and “Your not even related to him!” talk.[/quote]
    ____________

    But Jack has Sayid now to back him on everything not to mention Eloise is showing them the way so i’m not sure how he loses validity. She may put a thorn in Juliet’s side, but this will only make Juliet be “one of them” (like ben said) making her go back and have destructive behavior (like killing danny picket). I do give her credit for giving aaron to his grandmother, but when she is telling Jack you’re not even related to him, SHE’S WRONG (even if they don’t know it). Also, I really don’t like the fact that she tells Sayid “when is it ok to kill kids and set off h-bombs” when she blew up her house with her dad inside, responsible for her childhood friend’s death, AND leaving her husband behind (when she was posing as Monica in Miami) by drugging him. I mean honestly, I don’t see her role at all EXCEPT for creating a rift in everyone’s main objective in life. I’m not saying she has no purpose but we clearly haven’t seen that yet. I don’t think saving Ben was her Destiny…maybe the rift causing will infact be her responsibility to change WHH?

  308. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334148"]To The Kath:

    i have a theory that makes Kate even more important than all of the support roles that you named.

    I just got through rewatching the ep “What Kate Did” (S2 E9). In that episode, kate is nursing Sawyer back from being shot on the boat.

    Sawyer is asleep, he wakes up abruptly, and says to Kate: “Why did you kill me?” Kate takes this to be the spirit of her stepfather whom she killed.

    I Hereby predict that Sawyer was seeing the future in his dream, and Kate does actually kill Sawyer. (write it down)[/quote]
    _______

    only one problem i have with this and it lies in the trailers for the next episode and since those are considered spoilers i will hold out my thought

  309. Macgyver says:

    After re-watching the entire episode in slow motion…jk This conversation from ‘the Brigg’ came to mind.

    COOPER: Island? OK. I’m driving down I10 through Tallahassee when bam, somebody slams into the back of my car. I go right into the divider at seventy miles an hour, the next thing I know, the paramedics are strapping me to a gurney, stuffing me into the back of an ambulance and one of them actually smiles at me as he pops the IV in my arm. And then, nothing. Just, black. And the next thing I know I wake up in a dark room tied up, gag in my mouth, and when the door opens, I’m looking up at the same man I threw out a window, John Locke. My dead son.

    [Pause]

    SAWYER: And he’s dead cause you threw him out a window?

    COOPER: No he survived that. But it paralyzed him, permanently. He’s dead because the plane he was flying on crashed in the Pacific.

    SAWYER: Well I got bad news for ya pops, cause I was on that plane with your son. He sure as hell wasn’t crippled. And we didn’t crash in the Pacific, we crashed here on this Island.

    COOPER: You sure its an Island?

    SAWYER: Well what else is it?

    COOPER: Little hot for heaven isn’t it?

    SAWYER: [Sarcastically] Oh OK, so we’re dead?

    What if RA really is an ‘advisor’ for those crossing into the afterlife/underworld, and the ‘magic box’ manifest whatever one needs to do so. ‘Don’t tell me what I can and cannot do’ sounds like a serious ego barrier one might need to cross to me. John’s whole life has been from a position lacking in power.

    What if John is Not supposed to do what he is about to, and maybe Ben has known this the whole time. Why can’t been find the cabin on his own….maybe he’s not supposed to. Maybe Jacob is actually from this ‘black box’, created by John. Hmmmmmm.

  310. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="334129"][quote comment="334116"]I just thought of this. There is no way that jughead is going to be detonated if they writers want to keep this show realistic. A hydrogen bomb is far more powerful than an atomic bomb and look what it did to Japan. If Jughead blew up, the ENTIRE island would be wiped out..not just dead people but i am talking vegetation, barracks, everything. In 27 years, all of the vegetation and such would not have grown back fully yet like it is. It takes decades for that to happen. Plus like some have mentioned all this is happening right now before Widmore even gets exiled and we saw the island which looked pretty intact and not scorched Earth.

    The only way I can see the bomb getting blown up next week is if they somehow manage to minimize the explosion but since how Jack is not a scientist and has no knowledge of bombs, I dont think they will figure out how to do this.[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————

    I disagree (about your predictions merits).

    The only thing that the condition of the island when Whidmore is exiled tells us is that the hydrogen bomb DIDNT GO OFF IN THE PAST.

    Have you forgotten that this is a question of wheather or not they can CHANGE THE PAST?

    Also, We all know that Jack is not a scientist, but is he the only one in the room?

    Sayid may very well have experience in dealing with explosive ordinance. (AND, UM……..HE’S STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO JACK).

    Also, check out post #223 it will give you a better understanding as to why the H-bomb will no longer be acting like an H-bomb

    Who’s to say that the magnetic power in the island isn’t comparable to that of whatever kind of nuclear blast you want to talk aboout?

    It seems like you just wanted to PooPoo on someone’s ideas w/out giving it much thought. I don’t know whos, but your whole comment is trying to refute ideas you heard, not submit ones of your own——–Kind of like this one : )[/quote]
    _______________________________________

    Yea obviosuly you didnt read my post directly under my first one where I said this is assuming that WHH is true which is what I believe so I am not calling anyones theories wrong, I am just posting my opinion like everyone else on this blog. I think that the past cannot be changed. Simple as that.

  311. Macgyver says:

    terrible typo in my last comment. I meant ‘why can’t John find the cabin on his own?’

  312. Tasha says:

    Alright…has this been discussed? My sis and I were talking and I can’t believe I just realized this. It probably has been talked about since the episode of Jughead! When Richard went and visited little Locke and asked him what belonged to him, the compass REALLY WAS Lockes! SO it has always been Locke’s all along right? I feel really behind now:(

  313. osnap says:

    Thirty Years Earlier…
    In the 1977 story-line, it’s hard to believe that Sawyer, Kate, and Juliette are really going to leave on the sub and not be part of the season finale, so here is my prediction:
    At the end of this past episode, we saw the submarine dive into the water with the women, children, crew, Sawyer, Kate, and Juliette onboard. As that’s happening, I think that a Dharma person locates the hostiles (according to Sawyer’s map) and finds young Ben, who is healing from his gunshot wound. The Dharma person radios the submarine, saying ‘there’s another kid on the island we have to evacuate.’ The submarine goes back to the pier, Ben is brought into the submarine, and somehow Sawyer and Kate use that moment to escape and get back to the island.
    Remember, the last thing Kate said to Jack is, “I’m going back to find the rest of our people because if I can’t stop you, maybe they can.” She found Sawyer and Juliette on the sub, so she will probably try to convince them to get back to the island to stop Jack.
    I think that only Kate and Sawyer will go back to the island; not Juliette. Even though Juliette just told Sawyer that she loved him, her shifty eyes made me think that she will decide to exit the love quadrangle, because if she stays with Sawyer, she will always wonder about his feelings for Kate.
    I think Juliet will stay with Ben on the submarine and become his care-taker. Who else would take care of Ben? His mother is dead and his father is still on the island. I don’t know where this plot line would go, but a scene from an earlier season comes to mind: when Juliette first gets to the island in 2001 and Ben seems to be enamored with her, someone says that’s because ‘you look just like her.’ Does Ben remember Juliette from his past?

    btw, I hope that Rose and Bernard are in the finale and during all the time flashes, they hunker down in the caves and reminisce about their lives together. Then they die in each others arms in a romantic, ‘Notebook’-esque scene, and become the ‘adam and eve’ referred to in previous seasons.

  314. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334157"]I do give [Kate] credit for giving aaron to his grandmother, but when she is telling Jack you’re not even related to him, SHE’S WRONG (even if they don’t know it). [/quote]

    Unless there is a conversation I missed, it is Jack who tells Kate that Aaron’s not even related to her.

    : ) P

  315. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334122"]That older Juliet video a couple posts back really creeped me out!
    [/quote]

    I think this is just a case of an avid fan looking a LITTLE too closely at the background actors. It is just a blond woman who has a similar build to Juliet. Perhaps even the same blond woman in the background in the barracks (whom you could only see if you morphed the lighting and watched it at 1/4 speed).

    I really truly believe that *easter eggs* are NOT going to be THAT hidden!

    : ) P

  316. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334157"]Also, I really don’t like the fact that she tells Sayid “when is it ok to kill kids and set off h-bombs” when she blew up her house with her dad inside, responsible for her childhood friend’s death, AND leaving her husband behind (when she was posing as Monica in Miami) by drugging him. [/quote]

    I didn’t see it as Kate casting stones where she shouldn’t. I think she was questioning Jack’s and Sayid’s integrity based on what she thought she could expect of THEM as she determined in the months (and years) spent together. THEY had helped HER become a better person (one who, in the same situation, probably wouldn’t kill her father, for example). I think she just wants them to be HUMAN.

    As a doctor, Jack took an oath to save people. Granted, he was a JANITOR when he chose not to help Ben, but still.

    : ) P

  317. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334186"][quote comment="334157"]Also, I really don’t like the fact that she tells Sayid “when is it ok to kill kids and set off h-bombs” when she blew up her house with her dad inside, responsible for her childhood friend’s death, AND leaving her husband behind (when she was posing as Monica in Miami) by drugging him. [/quote]

    I didn’t see it as Kate casting stones where she shouldn’t. I think she was questioning Jack’s and Sayid’s integrity based on what she thought she could expect of THEM as she determined in the months (and years) spent together. THEY had helped HER become a better person (one who, in the same situation, probably wouldn’t kill her father, for example). I think she just wants them to be HUMAN.

    As a doctor, Jack took an oath to save people. Granted, he was a JANITOR when he chose not to help Ben, but still.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I am on the side of JZ here. I found it like the pot calling the kettle black when Kate started to spew morality arguments. She is real piece of work, the king of woman you run away from screaming. Even Jack was OK with Kate leaving.

    What I was stupefied by was the fact that Kate was picked up just wondering back into Dharmaville when as far as she knew Sawyer and company told her that were headed for the beach. Why was she going back there?

  318. Steve says:

    Something is amis in Dharmaville!!!

    Locke was climbing up to the plane on the cliff when Ethan shot him. Since Ethan does not recognize Locke, Flight 815 has not crashed yet. Once Locke is shot and falls to the ground he is confronted by Ethan who is about to shoot him again when John Flashes to a time after the plane has fallen. This is the scene we saw Wed night where John tells Richard about himself coming out of the woods.

    Here is the real issue.

    If Ethan shoots Locke while the plane is still up on the cliff and then Locke just vanishes before his eyes, why does Ethan not recognize Locke on the beach immediately when he shows up to observe the survivors. You would think this would be the first thing reported back to Ben, but Ethan does not even recognize Locke. Maybe something has changed.

  319. Steve says:

    PJ wrote: As a doctor, Jack took an oath to save people.

    Actually Jack took an oath to do no harm. and Even he was bound to save people, that would exactly what he was doing by trying to let ben die.

  320. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="334177"]Thirty Years Earlier…
    In the 1977 story-line, it’s hard to believe that Sawyer, Kate, and Juliette are really going to leave on the sub and not be part of the season finale, so here is my prediction:
    At the end of this past episode, we saw the submarine dive into the water with the women, children, crew, Sawyer, Kate, and Juliette onboard. As that’s happening, I think that a Dharma person locates the hostiles (according to Sawyer’s map) and finds young Ben, who is healing from his gunshot wound. The Dharma person radios the submarine, saying ‘there’s another kid on the island we have to evacuate.’ The submarine goes back to the pier, Ben is brought into the submarine, and somehow Sawyer and Kate use that moment to escape and get back to the island.
    Remember, the last thing Kate said to Jack is, “I’m going back to find the rest of our people because if I can’t stop you, maybe they can.” She found Sawyer and Juliette on the sub, so she will probably try to convince them to get back to the island to stop Jack.
    I think that only Kate and Sawyer will go back to the island; not Juliette. Even though Juliette just told Sawyer that she loved him, her shifty eyes made me think that she will decide to exit the love quadrangle, because if she stays with Sawyer, she will always wonder about his feelings for Kate.
    I think Juliet will stay with Ben on the submarine and become his care-taker. Who else would take care of Ben? His mother is dead and his father is still on the island. I don’t know where this plot line would go, but a scene from an earlier season comes to mind: when Juliette first gets to the island in 2001 and Ben seems to be enamored with her, someone says that’s because ‘you look just like her.’ Does Ben remember Juliette from his past?

    btw, I hope that Rose and Bernard are in the finale and during all the time flashes, they hunker down in the caves and reminisce about their lives together. Then they die in each others arms in a romantic, ‘Notebook’-esque scene, and become the ‘adam and eve’ referred to in previous seasons.[/quote]
    +++++
    Rose and Bernard may die in each others arms but not in the caves. The two corpses were seperate when found.

  321. Ament20 says:

    Rumblestilskin
    Comment 304, posted 11 hours, 53 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Ament20 wrote:

    Keeping with the plot of the show and the jaw dropping events to unfold…IMO maybe Walt’s dream of locke is going to happen but not the locke we know. If Jacob = John then in Walt’s dream it’s Jacob he sees and then yes Walt’s dream would be accurate.

    Sense we know Jacob has obviously been there a long time i’m thinking one last time shift is to come to put John in that rocking chair and being the cabin is made from the trees of the island it time shifts with the island.

    ——————————————————————————————–

    Except for the island wasn’t time shifting. The losties were :(

    _______________________________

    The Island must of time shift, the Statue proved that.

  322. Ament20 says:

    Ben never answered Locke when he asked if he ever seen Jacob so to me that is still up in the air. The subtle comments Ben made during the Cabin\Jacob episode on how they both don’t like technology pushes me closer to them being one in the same. There are also moments john gets gung-ho about jacob and Ben and RA give each other looks but then give into his demands cause hey it’s jacob wanting to see jacob. I mean come on if you were in Ben or RA’s shoes which “leader” would you “follow”?

  323. Ament20 says:

    I also have a theory on Ben being RA’s half-sister and Jack’s their dad but that may be overdoing it… 0.o

  324. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="334189"]Something is amis in Dharmaville!!!

    Locke was climbing up to the plane on the cliff when Ethan shot him. Since Ethan does not recognize Locke, Flight 815 has not crashed yet. Once Locke is shot and falls to the ground he is confronted by Ethan who is about to shoot him again when John Flashes to a time after the plane has fallen. This is the scene we saw Wed night where John tells Richard about himself coming out of the woods.

    Here is the real issue.

    If Ethan shoots Locke while the plane is still up on the cliff and then Locke just vanishes before his eyes, why does Ethan not recognize Locke on the beach immediately when he shows up to observe the survivors. You would think this would be the first thing reported back to Ben, but Ethan does not even recognize Locke. Maybe something has changed.[/quote]

    This was discussed a bit on the thread for that episode(Because you Left). My thought is that When Ethan shows up in the Losties camp shortly after O815 crashes, he is trying to pass himself off as one of them. So he couldn’t very well let on that he recognized Locke from a few years ago, or that would blow his cover.

  325. Locke is Jacob says:

    Great question about Ethan not remembering Locke. I agree with Toeknee, even if he did remember him, he wouldn’t have said anything. Also, I was thinking about the conversation between Miles and Hugo, and Miles said “This already happened” and “we have already had this conversation” (something like that). I was thinking that when we are introduced to Ethan, the person he shot years before, wasn’t John Locke. That would go against WHH… so unless something changed, Ethan shot Locke and years later saw him as a survivor of 815

  326. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334260"]Great question about Ethan not remembering Locke. I agree with Toeknee, even if he did remember him, he wouldn’t have said anything. Also, I was thinking about the conversation between Miles and Hugo, and Miles said “This already happened” and “we have already had this conversation” (something like that). I was thinking that when we are introduced to Ethan, the person he shot years before, wasn’t John Locke. That would go against WHH… so unless something changed, Ethan shot Locke and years later saw him as a survivor of 815[/quote]

    ________________________________________

    This is one reason why I believe that WHH is not true anymore for certain people. Consider the moment Locke meets Ethan on the beach. The shooting event with Ethan occurred in Ethan’s past, and in Locke’s Future. If this event had already happened for Ethan, then he would have reported the reappearance of the disappearing man back to Ben and Richard.

    Richard would have already met Locke in 1954 on the island where he dissapeared right in front of him, then again in 1956 in the Hospital in Tustin, California, and again in the mid 1960’s as an child when he gave him the test. Richard would have know the name John Locke as recently as circa 1972 when John was invited to the science camp while he was in high school.

    We know that Ben and Richard know who was on the Plane, so if all this has happened before, why wouldn’t the name John Locke just leap out at them? Locke wasn’t on any of the lists of passengers of interest to either Ben or “Jacob”. In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”

  327. CKD says:

    i dont know if this was posted already. But with regards to Christian’s dad do yall think that he came back to life when the original oceanic plane crashed in the pilot episode just like Locke came back to life after the plane crash this past season..

  328. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="334209"]Rumblestilskin
    Comment 304, posted 11 hours, 53 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Ament20 wrote:

    Keeping with the plot of the show and the jaw dropping events to unfold…IMO maybe Walt’s dream of locke is going to happen but not the locke we know. If Jacob = John then in Walt’s dream it’s Jacob he sees and then yes Walt’s dream would be accurate.

    Sense we know Jacob has obviously been there a long time i’m thinking one last time shift is to come to put John in that rocking chair and being the cabin is made from the trees of the island it time shifts with the island.

    ——————————————————————————————–

    Except for the island wasn’t time shifting. The losties were :(

    _______________________________

    The Island must of time shift, the Statue proved that.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    How dose the statue prove that. They traveled to the time the statue was there. They moved in time, not the statue.

  329. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="334281"][quote comment="334260"]Great question about Ethan not remembering Locke. I agree with Toeknee, even if he did remember him, he wouldn’t have said anything. Also, I was thinking about the conversation between Miles and Hugo, and Miles said “This already happened” and “we have already had this conversation” (something like that). I was thinking that when we are introduced to Ethan, the person he shot years before, wasn’t John Locke. That would go against WHH… so unless something changed, Ethan shot Locke and years later saw him as a survivor of 815[/quote]

    ________________________________________

    This is one reason why I believe that WHH is not true anymore for certain people. Consider the moment Locke meets Ethan on the beach. The shooting event with Ethan occurred in Ethan’s past, and in Locke’s Future. If this event had already happened for Ethan, then he would have reported the reappearance of the disappearing man back to Ben and Richard.

    Richard would have already met Locke in 1954 on the island where he dissapeared right in front of him, then again in 1956 in the Hospital in Tustin, California, and again in the mid 1960’s as an child when he gave him the test. Richard would have know the name John Locke as recently as circa 1972 when John was invited to the science camp while he was in high school.

    We know that Ben and Richard know who was on the Plane, so if all this has happened before, why wouldn’t the name John Locke just leap out at them? Locke wasn’t on any of the lists of passengers of interest to either Ben or “Jacob”. In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    I think John, Jack and all wern';t on Jacobs list because they had already been to the island in the past. If they had been on the list and were with the others then they would have stayed on island time instead of time shifting with Sawyer and all. Then they never could have ended up in 1977. Therefore, they couldn’t be on the list. Cindy and the kids wern’t already there in 1977 so they could join the others and stay on island time. WHH still works for me overall.

  330. Mrs.Awesome says:

    Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare

  331. Steve says:

    We know that Ben and Richard know who was on the Plane, so if all this has happened before, why wouldn’t the name John Locke just leap out at them? Locke wasn’t on any of the lists of passengers of interest to either Ben or “Jacob”. In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”

    ++++++++++++++
    I think John, Jack and all wern’;t on Jacobs list because they had already been to the island in the past. If they had been on the list and were with the others then they would have stayed on island time instead of time shifting with Sawyer and all. Then they never could have ended up in 1977. Therefore, they couldn’t be on the list. Cindy and the kids wern’t already there in 1977 so they could join the others and stay on island time. WHH still works for me overall.

    ______________________________________

    But John was with the others after Ben turned the FDW. He still jumped through time.

    I respect your position on this.

    I guess I don’t want to accept the WHH idea because it makes for a really unimaginative program. If they can’t change their futures, They become extremely dull, and I for one would be very disappointed.

  332. Macgyver says:

    [quote comment="334281"][quote comment="334260"] In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”[/quote]

    stevie …when did this happen? Thats A MIGHTY BIG POINT

  333. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="334281"][quote comment="334260"]Great question about Ethan not remembering Locke. I agree with Toeknee, even if he did remember him, he wouldn’t have said anything. Also, I was thinking about the conversation between Miles and Hugo, and Miles said “This already happened” and “we have already had this conversation” (something like that). I was thinking that when we are introduced to Ethan, the person he shot years before, wasn’t John Locke. That would go against WHH… so unless something changed, Ethan shot Locke and years later saw him as a survivor of 815[/quote]

    ________________________________________

    This is one reason why I believe that WHH is not true anymore for certain people. Consider the moment Locke meets Ethan on the beach. The shooting event with Ethan occurred in Ethan’s past, and in Locke’s Future. If this event had already happened for Ethan, then he would have reported the reappearance of the disappearing man back to Ben and Richard.

    Richard would have already met Locke in 1954 on the island where he dissapeared right in front of him, then again in 1956 in the Hospital in Tustin, California, and again in the mid 1960’s as an child when he gave him the test. Richard would have know the name John Locke as recently as circa 1972 when John was invited to the science camp while he was in high school.

    We know that Ben and Richard know who was on the Plane, so if all this has happened before, why wouldn’t the name John Locke just leap out at them? Locke wasn’t on any of the lists of passengers of interest to either Ben or “Jacob”. In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”[/quote]
    ————–

    Maybe Locke is not on the list because HE HIMSELF wrote the list (as Jacob)?

  334. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="334281"]
    This is one reason why I believe that WHH is not true anymore for certain people. Consider the moment Locke meets Ethan on the beach. The shooting event with Ethan occurred in Ethan’s past, and in Locke’s Future. If this event had already happened for Ethan, then he would have reported the reappearance of the disappearing man back to Ben and Richard.

    Richard would have already met Locke in 1954 on the island where he dissapeared right in front of him, then again in 1956 in the Hospital in Tustin, California, and again in the mid 1960’s as an child when he gave him the test. Richard would have know the name John Locke as recently as circa 1972 when John was invited to the science camp while he was in high school.

    We know that Ben and Richard know who was on the Plane, so if all this has happened before, why wouldn’t the name John Locke just leap out at them? Locke wasn’t on any of the lists of passengers of interest to either Ben or “Jacob”. In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”[/quote]
    Who’s to say that Ethan didn’t tell Richard and Ben that Locke reappeared? I think it’s quite likely that he did report that info to them. However, they couldn’t show us such a scene back in season 1, or 2 or 3 even, or they’d give away too much too soon. But consider the fact that at one point, Ben claimed that he went to the Losties camp in season 2 to get Locke, because he was special. And then at one point when Locke went to join with the Others, someone said something like “we’ve been waiting for you”. I’d attribute those statements to Richard’s experiences with Locke over the preceeding 50 years (which we have witnessed this season). So in other words, the name John Locke did leap out at them.

    I don’t know what to say about the “lists”. I’m sure they had their own reasons for not just snatching Locke right away. But maybe what Circus Mom said is correct.

  335. Mrs.Awesome says:

    so what u guys think about my last post

  336. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334299"][quote comment="334281"][quote comment="334260"] In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”[/quote]

    stevie …when did this happen? Thats A MIGHTY BIG POINT[/quote]

    From Lostopedia –>
    n “Par Avion”, Mikhail talks to Sayid, Locke, Kate, and Rousseau about why each of them was not on the list. He explains, “You’re not on the list because (looks at Kate) you are flawed… (looks at Locke) because you are angry… (turns to Sayid) and weak, and frightened.” His account on Locke should probably not be taken seriously, since he is a direct threat to Ben’s leadership among the Others. Ben could have erased Locke from the list because of this threat.

  337. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334305"]so what u guys think about my last post[/quote]

    I will have give this one more thought, but my first gut reaction is that both Locke and Ford existed off island pre-815 at the same time, and I think both births can be traced as separate events.

  338. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334302"][quote comment="334281"]
    This is one reason why I believe that WHH is not true anymore for certain people. Consider the moment Locke meets Ethan on the beach. The shooting event with Ethan occurred in Ethan’s past, and in Locke’s Future. If this event had already happened for Ethan, then he would have reported the reappearance of the disappearing man back to Ben and Richard.

    Richard would have already met Locke in 1954 on the island where he dissapeared right in front of him, then again in 1956 in the Hospital in Tustin, California, and again in the mid 1960’s as an child when he gave him the test. Richard would have know the name John Locke as recently as circa 1972 when John was invited to the science camp while he was in high school.

    We know that Ben and Richard know who was on the Plane, so if all this has happened before, why wouldn’t the name John Locke just leap out at them? Locke wasn’t on any of the lists of passengers of interest to either Ben or “Jacob”. In fact Mikhail told lock he was not on Jacob’s list because he was “Angry”.

    This sounds more like WHHC “Whatever Happened Has Changed”[/quote]
    Who’s to say that Ethan didn’t tell Richard and Ben that Locke reappeared? I think it’s quite likely that he did report that info to them. However, they couldn’t show us such a scene back in season 1, or 2 or 3 even, or they’d give away too much too soon. But consider the fact that at one point, Ben claimed that he went to the Losties camp in season 2 to get Locke, because he was special. And then at one point when Locke went to join with the Others, someone said something like “we’ve been waiting for you”. I’d attribute those statements to Richard’s experiences with Locke over the preceeding 50 years (which we have witnessed this season). So in other words, the name John Locke did leap out at them.

    I don’t know what to say about the “lists”. I’m sure they had their own reasons for not just snatching Locke right away. But maybe what Circus Mom said is correct.[/quote]
    *****************************************

    These are some good points. Much to think about. I really want see how this turns out.

  339. wingman says:

    OMG Kill Jacob? If Jacob is a hoax I’m gonna have to eat it…I’m still reeling, free-falling…My life is Ben’s face @ the end of this episode…I have a huge theory now based on the rest of this ep, but imma read some posts to see if anyone beat me to it…

    MORE TO COME…

  340. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="334296"]Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    We have seen both young Locke and young Sawyer in flashbacks. They are definitly different people. We have seen Locke at various stages of his life and they were all him.

  341. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="334313"][quote comment="334296"]Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    We have seen both young Locke and young Sawyer in flashbacks. They are definitly different people. We have seen Locke at various stages of his life and they were all him.[/quote]
    ++++++++
    Beyone that, RA was there in 1956 when Locke was born.

  342. Mrs.Awesome says:

    Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother),

    _____________________________________________–
    come on that is totally ironic

  343. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="334305"]so what u guys think about my last post[/quote]
    It was already brought up -see #182, and then my response in 189.

  344. Cherry-missAWESOME says:

    oh sorry bout that I didnt read that far

  345. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334348"]oh sorry bout that I didnt read that far[/quote]

    So are you Cherry-missAWESOME as well as Mrs.Awesome? Because you seem to be answering to both posts. Just trying to figure out the players here.

    : ) P

  346. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="334296"]Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    FWIW…add this to the mix. Locke was supposed to kill his father to prove he is leader material. He ended having Sawyer do it. IF he IS Sawyer…then he DID kill his own father….hmmmm.

  347. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="334188"][quote comment="334186"][quote comment="334157"]Also, I really don’t like the fact that she tells Sayid “when is it ok to kill kids and set off h-bombs” when she blew up her house with her dad inside, responsible for her childhood friend’s death, AND leaving her husband behind (when she was posing as Monica in Miami) by drugging him. [/quote]

    I didn’t see it as Kate casting stones where she shouldn’t. I think she was questioning Jack’s and Sayid’s integrity based on what she thought she could expect of THEM as she determined in the months (and years) spent together. THEY had helped HER become a better person (one who, in the same situation, probably wouldn’t kill her father, for example). I think she just wants them to be HUMAN.

    As a doctor, Jack took an oath to save people. Granted, he was a JANITOR when he chose not to help Ben, but still.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I am on the side of JZ here. I found it like the pot calling the kettle black when Kate started to spew morality arguments. She is real piece of work, the king of woman you run away from screaming. Even Jack was OK with Kate leaving.

    What I was stupefied by was the fact that Kate was picked up just wondering back into Dharmaville when as far as she knew Sawyer and company told her that were headed for the beach. Why was she going back there?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    Above that, how did she get to the sub when there APB out to find her from Radzinky, et al.

  348. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334355"][quote comment="334188"][quote comment="334186"][quote comment="334157"]Also, I really don’t like the fact that she tells Sayid “when is it ok to kill kids and set off h-bombs” when she blew up her house with her dad inside, responsible for her childhood friend’s death, AND leaving her husband behind (when she was posing as Monica in Miami) by drugging him. [/quote]

    I didn’t see it as Kate casting stones where she shouldn’t. I think she was questioning Jack’s and Sayid’s integrity based on what she thought she could expect of THEM as she determined in the months (and years) spent together. THEY had helped HER become a better person (one who, in the same situation, probably wouldn’t kill her father, for example). I think she just wants them to be HUMAN.

    As a doctor, Jack took an oath to save people. Granted, he was a JANITOR when he chose not to help Ben, but still.

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I am on the side of JZ here. I found it like the pot calling the kettle black when Kate started to spew morality arguments. She is real piece of work, the king of woman you run away from screaming. Even Jack was OK with Kate leaving.

    What I was stupefied by was the fact that Kate was picked up just wondering back into Dharmaville when as far as she knew Sawyer and company told her that were headed for the beach. Why was she going back there?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    Above that, how did she get to the sub when there APB out to find her from Radzinky, et al.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    From the transcript on Lostopedia

    PHIL: [From outside the submarine] Hold on! Don’t close the hatch! Horace wants her off the Island, too. We’ll let Ann Arbor deal with them. [Sighs] Actually caught her coming back into town. Cuff her over there with the others.

  349. Shadow says:

    When Richard sees John on the beach for the first time after 3 years, he asks John where he’s been for the past three years, and he also asks what Ben is doing back? I thought Richard was “in the know”. How did he not know what was going on with their new leader (John) for the past three years? And then the comment he made about John “being trouble”. We’ve never seen Richard act that way before.

  350. wingman says:

    [quote comment="334360"]When Richard sees John on the beach for the first time after 3 years, he asks John where he’s been for the past three years, and he also asks what Ben is doing back? I thought Richard was “in the know”. How did he not know what was going on with their new leader (John) for the past three years? And then the comment he made about John “being trouble”. We’ve never seen Richard act that way before.[/quote]
    ==========================
    Richard, like Eloise when she was talking to Penny in the hospital, is at a point where he no longer knows anything about the future…Richard only knew and researched John to be their leader from him visiting him in 1954 (plus the countless references to him from other losties until and after the 815 plane crashes)…Once Locke became their leader and subsequently vanished Richard was now at a point where he didn’t have any further information to guide him or help him figure things out…

    On Richard’s knew attitude, it seems to me Locke has always shown him respect and a benefit of the doubt, but the “New” Locke is looking past his advisory role and taking charge (see how Widmore has absolute respect whenever Richard talks about Jacob)…”New” Locke doesn’t need Richard (which is apparent since it’s clear now that Richard doesn’t seem to be privy to time-travel)…Therefore Richard is stuck sitting “b!tch” so to speak, and he doesn’t appear to like it…Unfortunately I guess Richard has an ego to..

  351. PJSander says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to all the LOST-fan moms!

    : ) P

  352. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="334370"][quote comment="334360"]When Richard sees John on the beach for the first time after 3 years, he asks John where he’s been for the past three years, and he also asks what Ben is doing back? I thought Richard was “in the know”. How did he not know what was going on with their new leader (John) for the past three years? And then the comment he made about John “being trouble”. We’ve never seen Richard act that way before.[/quote]
    ==========================
    Richard, like Eloise when she was talking to Penny in the hospital, is at a point where he no longer knows anything about the future…Richard only knew and researched John to be their leader from him visiting him in 1954 (plus the countless references to him from other losties until and after the 815 plane crashes)…Once Locke became their leader and subsequently vanished Richard was now at a point where he didn’t have any further information to guide him or help him figure things out…

    On Richard’s knew attitude, it seems to me Locke has always shown him respect and a benefit of the doubt, but the “New” Locke is looking past his advisory role and taking charge (see how Widmore has absolute respect whenever Richard talks about Jacob)…”New” Locke doesn’t need Richard (which is apparent since it’s clear now that Richard doesn’t seem to be privy to time-travel)…Therefore Richard is stuck sitting “b!tch” so to speak, and he doesn’t appear to like it…Unfortunately I guess Richard has an ego to..[/quote]

    That makes sense, that Richard like Eloise don’t know anymore what is to come. Can’t wait to find out how Richard came to be and why he’s the “adviser”.
    I just finished watching this episode again, and I’m still confused about the compass. Before John, RA, and Ben go out to the plane, John asks RA if he still has the compass. Then we see RA go out to help John and as he’s coming back, John says “He just gave Richard his compass back.” How did that happen? RA had the compass on the beach when he showed it to John. If you’re still around Wingman, can you explain?

  353. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="334372"]Happy Mother’s Day to all the LOST-fan moms!

    : ) P[/quote]

    Awww, that’s sweet. Thanks :)

  354. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334373"]
    I just finished watching this episode again, and I’m still confused about the compass. Before John, RA, and Ben go out to the plane, John asks RA if he still has the compass. Then we see RA go out to help John and as he’s coming back, John says “He just gave Richard his compass back.” How did that happen? RA had the compass on the beach when he showed it to John. If you’re still around Wingman, can you explain?[/quote]

    I’m not wingman, but I will give it a whirl.

    IN THIS EPISODE, 2007Locke asks Richard if he still has the compass. Richard says it is rusty but still points north. Then the walk into the jungle. Richard, on Locke’s instructions, tends to 2005Locke’s wound and gives him the compass. 2005Locke then disappears.

    2007Ben asks 2007Locke where 2005Locke just went.

    2007BEN: What just happened? Where did you go?

    2007LOCKE: To give Richard his compass back.

    What he means is that 2005Locke just traveled IN TIME to 1954 when he gives Richard his compass (so that he has it in 2007 to give to the 2005Locke when he tends to his bullet wound and so on and son on).

    There is actually one flash between the 2007 flash and the 1954 flash.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  355. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="334387"][quote comment="334373"]
    I just finished watching this episode again, and I’m still confused about the compass. Before John, RA, and Ben go out to the plane, John asks RA if he still has the compass. Then we see RA go out to help John and as he’s coming back, John says “He just gave Richard his compass back.” How did that happen? RA had the compass on the beach when he showed it to John. If you’re still around Wingman, can you explain?[/quote]

    I’m not wingman, but I will give it a whirl.

    IN THIS EPISODE, 2007Locke asks Richard if he still has the compass. Richard says it is rusty but still points north. Then the walk into the jungle. Richard, on Locke’s instructions, tends to 2005Locke’s wound and gives him the compass. 2005Locke then disappears.

    2007Ben asks 2007Locke where 2005Locke just went.

    2007BEN: What just happened? Where did you go?

    2007LOCKE: To give Richard his compass back.

    What he means is that 2005Locke just traveled IN TIME to 1954 when he gives Richard his compass (so that he has it in 2007 to give to the 2005Locke when he tends to his bullet wound and so on and son on).

    There is actually one flash between the 2007 flash and the 1954 flash.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]

    Oh, that makes so much better sense. I thought 2007 Locke said to Ben “He just gave Richard his compass back”, not “To give Richard his compass back.” Just didn’t hear that part right. Thanks for clearing that up for me. :)

  356. manchester blarney monitor says:

    [quote comment="334305"]so what u guys think about my last post[/quote]
    seems like u make comments without having every seen the episode we ar talkin about

  357. wally p says:

    [quote comment="334296"]Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare[/quote]

    I might be going in all chips on my Sawyer is Kelvin Inman theory if he leaves the island in 1977. unless XXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX,
    but that is usually mad cut and paste on purpose just to be misleading. What happens in a two hour period next week is gonna be a total face melter (has the twist been named yet?) but I think there is a good possibility they are going to be off island for a while. There is a (slim, but still) possibility of an old lady Juliet lurking around the island in 2007… and I just read something about Sawyer accusing Kate of killing him after a dream he had in season two that I think is interesting.

    Check out Kelvin Inman, I see him more and more when I look at Sawyer. Plus Kelvin was there when Radzinsky died in the hatch…

    and Radzinsky… I think he knows what lies in the shadow of the statue. Did you see him go completely aggressive on Horace? Un called for. Or was it?

  358. Richard says:

    I’ve published on my website a special interview with actors, released in april, click me to see it

  359. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="334372"]Happy Mother’s Day to all the LOST-fan moms!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    Yes….Happy Mother’s Day to all you mothers.

    And….Happy Mutha’s Day to all you muthas. :)

  360. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334395"](has the twist been named yet?)[/quote]

    Yes. The fan-named game-changing secret scene is called “The Fork in the Outlet.”

    : ) P

  361. RGS says:

    [quote comment="334298"]
    I guess I don’t want to accept the WHH idea because it makes for a really unimaginative program. If they can’t change their futures, They become extremely dull, and I for one would be very disappointed.[/quote]

    Steve you’ve mentioned this before, about this being an unimaginative program. Regardless of how it turns out, I find it difficult to believe this is unimaginative programming. In addition, isn’t just about every time travel back to the past show/movie about changing the future?

    I can’t recall a show/movie where they detail how beings from the future impact the past which in fact creates their future. Certainly not the the number of variables thrown into this show. I with the WHH theory and the only exception I can see would have to involve Desmond, but I can accept either situation(except that H-bomb going off among a handful of other things…incidentally if it does go off, would they be jumping a 1977 shark, or the 2004 shark?).

  362. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="334117"]P.S. This is assuming WHH is true.[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————

    fair enough.

  363. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="334287"][quote comment="334209"]Rumblestilskin
    Comment 304, posted 11 hours, 53 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    Ament20 wrote:

    Keeping with the plot of the show and the jaw dropping events to unfold…IMO maybe Walt’s dream of locke is going to happen but not the locke we know. If Jacob = John then in Walt’s dream it’s Jacob he sees and then yes Walt’s dream would be accurate.

    Sense we know Jacob has obviously been there a long time i’m thinking one last time shift is to come to put John in that rocking chair and being the cabin is made from the trees of the island it time shifts with the island.

    ——————————————————————————————–

    Except for the island wasn’t time shifting. The losties were :(

    _______________________________

    The Island must of time shift, the Statue proved that.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    How dose the statue prove that. They traveled to the time the statue was there. They moved in time, not the statue.[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————

    Nothing about the statue is proven.

    The only thing saying that the statue was built in the future are people on blogs.

    Indeed, perhaps ALL of the Egyption stuff was made in the future, The Temple, The FDW, ect…..(but not really).

  364. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="334285"]i dont know if this was posted already. But with regards to Christian’s dad do yall think that he came back to life when the original oceanic plane crashed in the pilot episode just like Locke came back to life after the plane crash this past season..[/quote]
    ———————————————————————————————-

    IMO……..Absotutalutely : )

  365. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="334395"][quote comment="334296"]Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare[/quote]

    I might be going in all chips on my Sawyer is Kelvin Inman theory if he leaves the island in 1977.

    Check out Kelvin Inman, I see him more and more when I look at Sawyer. Plus Kelvin was there when Radzinsky died in the hatch…
    ———————————————————————————————

    I suspect the same.

    Im also the one who said about Kate killing sawyer. These things would seem 2 B at odds w/each other…….and I dont know which one I think is more plausable. (Aaaaaaahhh!!!)

  366. Shadow says:

    I got Lost seasons 1-4 DVD’s for Mother’s Day. Yeah! Can anyone tell me in which episode we first meet Richard, and which episode does John decide he’s an other (or is made known to him that he’s an other).
    Thanks everyone.

  367. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="334498"]I got Lost seasons 1-4 DVD’s for Mother’s Day. Yeah! Can anyone tell me in which episode we first meet Richard, and which episode does John decide he’s an other (or is made known to him that he’s an other).
    Thanks everyone.[/quote]
    Go to lostpedia.com and click on the episodes link. There is a snopsys of each epi there. If you want to know when a particular charactor first appeared go to their page and it will list all their episodes.

  368. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="334455"][quote comment="334298"]
    I guess I don’t want to accept the WHH idea because it makes for a really unimaginative program. If they can’t change their futures, They become extremely dull, and I for one would be very disappointed.[/quote]

    Steve you’ve mentioned this before, about this being an unimaginative program. Regardless of how it turns out, I find it difficult to believe this is unimaginative programming. In addition, isn’t just about every time travel back to the past show/movie about changing the future?

    I can’t recall a show/movie where they detail how beings from the future impact the past which in fact creates their future. Certainly not the the number of variables thrown into this show. I with the WHH theory and the only exception I can see would have to involve Desmond, but I can accept either situation(except that H-bomb going off among a handful of other things…incidentally if it does go off, would they be jumping a 1977 shark, or the 2004 shark?).[/quote]
    ++++++++
    True, but in many time travel movies it shows them going to the past to try and change something and actually causing WHH to be true. Think of Twelve Monkeys.

  369. mcotter says:

    just a thought whilst re watching FTL ’77 eloise is starting to look and talk alot like Penny, going to make a huge assumption that Penny will end up being eloise’s daughter, making her and daniel full brother and sister, this assumption would mean that penny is not the child Charles had with an outsider and thus the cause of his exile, I believe that Penny was born on the island before Daniel, ellie is pregnant with Penny in FTL not Daniel and Daniel may well be born later. This would now raise the question of who the child Charles has with an outsider that causes his exile, who would fit this, the yet un-surnamed Libby i predict, who will grow up and work for her Dad.

  370. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="334500"][quote comment="334498"]I got Lost seasons 1-4 DVD’s for Mother’s Day. Yeah! Can anyone tell me in which episode we first meet Richard, and which episode does John decide he’s an other (or is made known to him that he’s an other).
    Thanks everyone.[/quote]
    Go to lostpedia.com and click on the episodes link. There is a snopsys of each epi there. If you want to know when a particular charactor first appeared go to their page and it will list all their episodes.[/quote]

    Thanks Circus Mom!

  371. The Kath says:

    [quote comment="334177"]Thirty Years Earlier…
    In the 1977 story-line, it’s hard to believe that Sawyer, Kate, and Juliette are really going to leave on the sub and not be part of the season finale, so here is my prediction:
    At the end of this past episode, we saw the submarine dive into the water with the women, children, crew, Sawyer, Kate, and Juliette onboard. As that’s happening, I think that a Dharma person locates the hostiles (according to Sawyer’s map) and finds young Ben, who is healing from his gunshot wound. The Dharma person radios the submarine, saying ‘there’s another kid on the island we have to evacuate.’ The submarine goes back to the pier, Ben is brought into the submarine, and somehow Sawyer and Kate use that moment to escape and get back to the island.
    Remember, the last thing Kate said to Jack is, “I’m going back to find the rest of our people because if I can’t stop you, maybe they can.” She found Sawyer and Juliette on the sub, so she will probably try to convince them to get back to the island to stop Jack.
    I think that only Kate and Sawyer will go back to the island; not Juliette. Even though Juliette just told Sawyer that she loved him, her shifty eyes made me think that she will decide to exit the love quadrangle, because if she stays with Sawyer, she will always wonder about his feelings for Kate.
    I think Juliet will stay with Ben on the submarine and become his care-taker. Who else would take care of Ben? His mother is dead and his father is still on the island. I don’t know where this plot line would go, but a scene from an earlier season comes to mind: when Juliette first gets to the island in 2001 and Ben seems to be enamored with her, someone says that’s because ‘you look just like her.’ Does Ben remember Juliette from his past?

    btw, I hope that Rose and Bernard are in the finale and during all the time flashes, they hunker down in the caves and reminisce about their lives together. Then they die in each others arms in a romantic, ‘Notebook’-esque scene, and become the ‘adam and eve’ referred to in previous seasons.[/quote]
    *****************************************************

    Really like this theory and I really could see Juliet being the care taker of Ben but I always took the “You look just like her” comment as a reference to Juliet looking like Ben’s mom because that guy probably has an Oedipus complex IMHO. If you look at the screen caps at these links you can see that Ben’s mom looks a lot like Juliet.

    http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/05/baby-ben-and-bens-mother.html

    http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/painting-lady-is-ben-mother-emily.html

  372. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334508"][quote comment="334177"]
    Remember, the last thing Kate said to Jack is, “I’m going back to find the rest of our people because if I can’t stop you, maybe they can.” She found Sawyer and Juliette on the sub[/quote]
    *****************************************************

    Really like this theory and I really could see Juliet being the care taker of Ben but I always took the “You look just like her” comment as a reference to Juliet looking like Ben’s mom because that guy probably has an Oedipus complex IMHO. If you look at the screen caps at these links you can see that Ben’s mom looks a lot like Juliet.

    http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/05/baby-ben-and-bens-mother.html

    http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/painting-lady-is-ben-mother-emily.html%5B/quote%5D

    ********************************************

    Kate went “to find the rest of our people”. If this is truly what she had in mind, why did she go back to Dharmaville and not head straight for the Beach. Sawyer told them that he was headed for the beach. Kate would have no way of knowing that he did not escape the village.

    She went back for something, but it was not to find sawyer and co.

  373. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334504"]just a thought whilst re watching FTL ’77 eloise is starting to look and talk alot like Penny, going to make a huge assumption that Penny will end up being eloise’s daughter, making her and daniel full brother and sister, this assumption would mean that penny is not the child Charles had with an outsider and thus the cause of his exile, I believe that Penny was born on the island before Daniel, ellie is pregnant with Penny in FTL not Daniel and Daniel may well be born later. This would now raise the question of who the child Charles has with an outsider that causes his exile, who would fit this, the yet un-surnamed Libby i predict, who will grow up and work for her Dad.[/quote]

    I can buy Eloise being pregnant in 1977. I can buy Penny and Daniel being siblings. I can even buy (and actually suggested previously) that Libby is a Widmore. I CANNOT buy that Daniel has not been born in 1977. Post 139:

    [quote comment="333716"]We know that Faraday was a professor at Oxford in 1996. Even if he got his doctorate that SAME YEAR (which I doubt), that would mean that if he had been born in 1977, he would have been 19 with a *doctorate* in physics at Oxford. That’s EIGHT years of college. Even if he did it in six, that would have put him graduating from high school at 13. I know he was the youngest doctor to graduate from Oxford, but still. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not to me.[/quote]

    : ) P

  374. mcotter says:

    [quote comment="334517"]

    I can buy Eloise being pregnant in 1977. I can buy Penny and Daniel being siblings. I can even buy (and actually suggested previously) that Libby is a Widmore. I CANNOT buy that Daniel has not been born in 1977. Post 139:

    : ) P[/quote]

    Fine thats cool, im fine to Daniel being Penny’s older brother then, but Elloise has made no indication that she has already had Daniel when she killed him, think it might be a cool twist that we all assume that she is now preggers with Daniel when she is in fact preggers with Penny throwing us off the fact that it is not Penny that gets Widmore exciled it will be Libby, that was my main point Im not fussed whose born first out of Daniel and Penny but I reckon its more likely that Daniel is not born on the island as he was not one of the first to get nose bleeds during the time flashes like miles and charlotte who we know were born on the island

  375. RGS says:

    [quote comment="334501"]
    I can’t recall a show/movie where they detail how beings from the future impact the past which in fact creates their future. Certainly not the the number of variables thrown into this show. I with the WHH theory and the only exception I can see would have to involve Desmond, but I can accept either situation(except that H-bomb going off among a handful of other things…incidentally if it does go off, would they be jumping a 1977 shark, or the 2004 shark?).[/quote]
    ++++++++
    True, but in many time travel movies it shows them going to the past to try and change something and actually causing WHH to be true. Think of Twelve Monkeys.[/quote]

    I thought in 12 Monkeys they didn’t necessarily try to cause the chain of events but they wanted to identify where the strain was released so they could use it to find the cure. So they would be in fact changing things. I do see your point though, and I think I’m trying to say that previous shows have like one thing going on that the traveller is preventing…maybe Butterfly Effect would be a better example, but even then they limit it to ‘short story’ type things and the point of that film was to show the butterfly effect of past actions.

  376. Tara says:

    I just had a thought and I’m sorry if some one has mentioned this before. With Daniel coming back into 1977 with the plan to detonate the bomb to stop the plane from crashing in 2004 wouldn’t he in fact be preventing himself from ever coming to the island in 2004 and stopping the cycle. And in turn no one dies in 1977 because the cycle never stated again. So it wouldn’t matter if he had died from a gun shot by his mother or died in an explosion he never really dies because he never was there.

  377. Tara says:

    Perhaps that is why he was so nonchalant about walking into the Others camp.

  378. wingman says:

    Tara good question, my theory may help a bit on that…

    The universes’ response to the theory of time travel is coarse correction…Time travel is just a theory, a theory that can happen mathematically, but once that theory becomes reality, ITS REALITY… and once it happens, once the first person steps into altered time, It’s always happened (From a 1 timeline perspective obviously)… After thinking about Kate and Jack’s conversation (about erasing everything they ever did with one another) from this ep and the last something kinda hit me…

    I’m starting to believe the island is merely the result of time travel and all these things that point to the island wanting this person or that person isn’t some conscious thought but merely the consequence of the island being the birthplace for time-travel (and all the people who are apart of that time-travel phenomenon are simply doomed to repeat it)….The equation for time travel occurred on the island (Don’t ask me exactly how as I think next ep will finally explain that, but perhaps because of it’s abundance of magnetism as it’s resource, couple that what “JUGHEAD’ might do to that energy, and countless years suppressing that resulting energy)…These variables are perhaps what created the perfect//imperfect ingredients for actual time travel… Once the time travel takes place then it starts a cyclical chain of events that gets Dharma to go there, the planes to crash, the people that live there, the people that are Summoned there… .The phenomenon of the island may be totally related to the island being an endless bed of time travel.. And once time travel occurs IT HAPPENED, it always happened and can never NOT HAPPEN!!! SO these events will always be present (The island phenomenon)…
    Now again, the universes’ reaction to the theory of time travel is coarse correction….I think this is where Locke’s “death” and the possible “deaths” of the other Losties comes into play (As Richard says they’ll all die)…I’m starting to think that the people who originally “flashed” (Orginal Jack? Original Locke?) or at one point do flash (Locke, Sawyer and Company, Ajira Losties); I think they officially become coarse correctors…Just like Time-Travel, coarse correction is an imperfect science…Under this scenario you can die yet also not be dead because the original you was a coarse correction (Taken out of a normal timeline to be a universe variable)…You have no choice but to be a coarse correction until you die! The Locke who comes back to the island is no longer a coarse correction, therefore he is alive!

    If the universe fails and whatever Jack is trying to do doesn’t stop the eventual cataclysmic event (whatever that really may be if it’s not “The Incident”), then he and Kate and Sawyer and company die…Therefore they can no longer be coarse corrections…The universe goes thru the loop again…So basically when you screw with time, the second you screw with time, you screw with the universe, and the universes’ response to it all is course correction, but just like the VARIABLES it took for the theory’ of time travel to become reality, it takes the same variables OF THE UNIVERSE to counteract it!!! The universe can get you there, but it’s the free-will (Like Daniel was explaining) that will create the imperfect ingredient that can coarse correct successfully…

    Hopefully someone can add or subtract from this, but I feel like I’m on to something here…I think LOST may be the first Time-Travel story that practically deals with Time-Travel creating the time-travel (I’ll explain that more if someone asks)…

  379. doodle says:

    [quote comment="334175"]Alright…has this been discussed? My sis and I were talking and I can’t believe I just realized this. It probably has been talked about since the episode of Jughead! When Richard went and visited little Locke and asked him what belonged to him, the compass REALLY WAS Lockes! SO it has always been Locke’s all along right? I feel really behind now:([/quote]

    he chose the knife, which is his as well. he goes to pull it out of its sheath right before RA pulls the bullet out of his leg and hands him the compass. so they are both his!

  380. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="334522"][quote comment="334517"]

    I can buy Eloise being pregnant in 1977. I can buy Penny and Daniel being siblings. I can even buy (and actually suggested previously) that Libby is a Widmore. I CANNOT buy that Daniel has not been born in 1977. Post 139:

    : ) P[/quote]

    Fine thats cool, im fine to Daniel being Penny’s older brother then, but Elloise has made no indication that she has already had Daniel when she killed him, think it might be a cool twist that we all assume that she is now preggers with Daniel when she is in fact preggers with Penny throwing us off the fact that it is not Penny that gets Widmore exciled it will be Libby, that was my main point Im not fussed whose born first out of Daniel and Penny but I reckon its more likely that Daniel is not born on the island as he was not one of the first to get nose bleeds during the time flashes like miles and charlotte who we know were born on the island[/quote]
    *******************
    I think Daniel WAS already born and I think he was born on the island. I think he might not get the nose bleeds because when he went back via the freighter he was healed. His mother and father both told him if he went on the freighter he would be healed…they knew he would get better because of WHH…I think that Eloise (if she is pregnant at the time of shooting Dan) either is exiled, turns the wheel and thus can’t return, or leaves on her own to protect her unborn child and leaves with Daniel so that they will survive the incident…just thoughts…
    if she is not pregnant, I think she still leaves with Daniel and Widmore still visits off island and maybe this is the start of trying to undo what they have already done…although through time they realize they cant undo it…WHH. But again, Daniel is already born and I would think he would be close to the off island young boy we saw in the variable. Just because we haven’t seen him in camp or seen why Eloise left doesn’t mean he is not there…just means we have not seen that yet…
    -miss

  381. Missy says:

    Some random contemplations as I re-watched FTL and other reruns on the G4 network…

    Sawyer’s Map – The episode where Sawyer, Kate, Jack, Michael, and Hurley come across the tubes full of Darhma notebooks, Sawyer picks up John’s drawing of Radzinski’s map. I thought it’d be cool if that was the map that Sawyer draws for Radzinski that buys him and Juliet tickets on the submarine. Probably not true – but would be cool.

    Progress of Darhma Stations – Do we know in addition to the barracks and the constructions of the Swan and Orchid stations, was there any evidence of the other stations that we know of in 1977? These people can’t be wiped out in the finale if the other stations haven’t event been built yet – for instance…

    The Looking Glass – I was so wanting to see Charlie in a Looking Glass Darhma jumpsuit programming the jamming device. Oh well.

    The Swan’s Clock – OR if Darhma DOES get wiped out, could it be possible that the hostiles take over the building of the stations – it doesn’t seem to jive that the Swan’s countdown clock goes to the hieroglyphics (underworld) if it’s the hostiles that we’ve seen with the hieroglyphics, not Darhma. Have we seen Darhma use hieroglyphics and I’ve missed it?

    Why Kate came back – As previously mentioned, Kate left Jack to “get the others” to convince him to not detonate the H bomb, and yet went to the barracks, not the beach. So where was she going? Do we know exactly her motives in returning. She told Claire’s mom she was going to find Claire. Could we venture to guess that she might have been going to look for Jack’s sister to convince him not to blow up the island?

    That’s it for now. Enjoyed all of your posts. So sad the season is almost over  It’s why I get out of bed on Wednesdays. It’s the fastest hour of TV around!

  382. doodle says:

    [quote comment="334296"]Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare[/quote]

    A big piece of evidence here to supoort this is that RA told Locke that HE had to kill his father. Sawyer did it. RA was fine with what happened, there was never anything said like “you didn’t kill your father someone else did”. thats because Sawyer very well could be a young locke.

  383. Jay says:

    Some thoughts (some new some not so new):
    -I don’t think Jack fixes anything. I think he actually causes the incident. Ironic-but would fit with his loser mentality all season.

    -The last scence when the others are trudging along the beach is very biblical – think 10 commandments, leaving Eygpt: are they escaping the bondage of RA and Jacob? – is this a deliberate linkage or simply my twisted association?

    -When Locke said that he ws bringing RA and Ben to the plane, Ben said words to the effect of “what plane” and seemed genuinly surprised. Maybe this is a minor point but I don’t get it. This is Ben’s island and the plane was there a long time; did he think that is was some other plane they were oging to or did he somehow not know about the drug smuggling plane? Little things like this, changes in dialogue upon repeat flashbacks, changes in the location of Ben’s gun shot wound make me think they are altering time in subtle ways. Comments?

  384. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334680"]
    -The last scence when the others are trudging along the beach is very biblical – think 10 commandments, leaving Eygpt: are they escaping the bondage of RA and Jacob? – is this a deliberate linkage or simply my twisted association?

    -When Locke said that he ws bringing RA and Ben to the plane, Ben said words to the effect of “what plane” and seemed genuinly surprised. Maybe this is a minor point but I don’t get it. This is Ben’s island and the plane was there a long time; did he think that is was some other plane they were oging to or did he somehow not know about the drug smuggling plane? [/quote]

    Biblical, definitively.

    I understand what you are saying about Ben’s words, but I took it to me “which” plane – we know of three, as does Ben – Yemi’s, O815 and A316.

    : ) P

  385. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334514"]Kate went “to find the rest of our people”. If this is truly what she had in mind, why did she go back to Dharmaville and not head straight for the Beach. Sawyer told them that he was headed for the beach. Kate would have no way of knowing that he did not escape the village.

    She went back for something, but it was not to find sawyer and co.[/quote]

    We don’t know where Kate was. We don’t know where she was going or which way she was heading. The ONLY thing we have is Phil’s off-camera voice saying:

    PHIL: [From outside the submarine] Hold on! Don’t close the hatch! Horace wants her off the Island, too. We’ll let Ann Arbor deal with them. [Sighs] Actually caught her coming back into town. Cuff her over there with the others.

    First of all, Kate might well have been heading to the beach, but TOLD them something else so as not to give away where she THOUGHT Sawyer et al were. Another possibility it that Kate MIGHT have heard what was going on and got caught on purpose to get off the island. As much as everyone hates Kate, she is clever and no more likely to get caught by accident than anyone else.

    : ) P

  386. jaime says:

    Hey all :)

    I’ve been away for awhile and was just catching myself back up on all the posts.
    Has anyone listened to the newest podcast yet? There were a few things that were shockers. I figure i would ask first before discussing

  387. wingman says:

    Missy said:
    Progress of Darhma Stations – Do we know in addition to the barracks and the constructions of the Swan and Orchid stations, was there any evidence of the other stations that we know of in 1977? These people can’t be wiped out in the finale if the other stations haven’t event been built yet – for instance…

    ===============================
    This only happens if Jack “changes” time somehow…If he doesn’t then it isn’t “The Incident” that destroys the island//universe// the world, it’s something else (my belief is that the incident is the event that warps the island by manipulating the electromagnetic energy which begins the cycle that creates our endless timeloop)…It’s the purge that completely gets the Dharma folks off the island, not “The Incident”, so it’s fair to assume or speculate that they will comeback and continue to build whatever other stations they need to build….So even if they get wiped out, the people we see near adult Ben’s purge won’t get wiped out…It also appears Dharmaville never got destroyed in anyway, so if Jack does something that destroys the Barracks then he will have changed time (Which I don’t think will happen)…But like I said in my earlier post I think the universes’ only answer to time-travel is coarse-correctors, but the catch is it can only place them in the right time (It can’t control them because of free-will—which is why they are variables)…The imperfect science is for the variables to figure out a way to trump the constant inevitability that allows something like those other stations to eventually get created…

  388. Leslie says:

    [quote comment="333792"]I am starting to believe that there may be no Jacob. Rather just the idea of a Jacob- like the Wizard of Oz. There have been allusions to it- Henry Gale, the Man behind the Curtain, etc. What if Richard is the “real” Jacob- the one who pulls the strings, but does it as an “advisor” behind the scene. It’s much harder to stage a coup against a misterious figure than a person/ leader that is right there, so the idea of Jacob might just be a way to stay in control.[/quote]
    I agree with you 100% I have always been in the “there is no Jacob” camp and in MHO, the reactions of Richard and Ben seem to back it up. Locke is planning to show all of his people that Jacob is a myth, that Richard is a fraud and establish himself as the true leader. However, that being said, I also have no doubt that this plan will somehow be foiled.

  389. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="333746"]Is it possible that John Locke is, in fact, Jacob.[/quote]

    Maybe when Jacob said “help me”, he meant kill me.

  390. steve says:

    One more bothersome tidbit. How does Sawyer, Juliet, and the other Dharmites get on the sub, that must have come in from Ann Arbor with the Swan crew, some two to three days after the sub drops off the recruits in “Namaste”. The sub makes a round trip from half way around the world in just a couple of days? Even juliet confirmed that the sub would not be back for a couple of months.
    In Whatever happened Happened, the transcript was as follows.

    JULIET: He’s stable now. But I can’t, um…I can’t fix it.

    KATE: What about the sub? I mean, can we take him somewhere?

    JULIET: No. It’s gone. It won’t be back for a couple of months.

    IMO – The Ann Arbor sub must have been unscheduled, and they might have two or more subs, because there is no way. barring time travel, that the sub could have made the trip.

  391. Mia says:

    Perhaps the Others are like the Mafia in the Godfather movies:

    Jacob is Vito Corleone (the Don, or boss)
    Richard is Tom Hagen (consiglier, or advisor)
    Locke is Sonny (being groomed to succeed the Don
    All the others are “Made” members

  392. wingman says:

    You can’t believe Jacob is a hoax yet still believe that the cabin is skipping in time, or that Hurley saw it, or that John had a dream about Horace building it… If Jacob is a hoax then everything else has to be aswell…Now I think perhaps Richard or Ben may not know exactly what Jacob is, only that he exists or has been right about certain future events, but I doubt seriously they were tricking people with smoke and mirrors this entire time (Especially Richard who seemed fine with Locke pressuring Ben to go visit Jacob from S3)…To think Jacob is purely a hoax is to ignore all the phenomenon associated with his cabin (Which includes the whole Christian aspect)…I can’t do that…

  393. jaime says:

    [quote comment="334690"]Hey all :)

    I’ve been away for awhile and was just catching myself back up on all the posts.
    Has anyone listened to the newest podcast yet? There were a few things that were shockers. I figure i would ask first before discussing[/quote]
    ********************************************
    Basically one thing they put to rest that i thought was the largest surprise was that the Faraday/Chang comic-con vid was not cannon.
    Also that originally they were going to have Faraday stay on the island and talk to Chang about future/incident etc. but time restricted them from doing do so they “sent him to Ann Arbor”

    Things I’ll put out there for the finale IMO (either think or want to see)

    1. Jacob is Jacob, Locke is Locke, Alpert is Alpert etc.
    2. Why did Hurley get on the plane and is the guitar case important?
    3. Who the heck are Bram and Illana, who are they working for, what is in the metal case,
    and what lies in the shadow of the statue?
    4. Where are Rose and Bernard and where have they been?
    5. Who are the 2 “sides” that will war on the island that Widmore spoke to Locke about?
    6. Black Rock?, Egyptians? Statue? Jughead?
    on and on and on :)

  394. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334703"]You can’t believe Jacob is a hoax yet still believe that the cabin is skipping in time, or that Hurley saw it, or that John had a dream about Horace building it… If Jacob is a hoax then everything else has to be aswell…Now I think perhaps Richard or Ben may not know exactly what Jacob is, only that he exists or has been right about certain future events, but I doubt seriously they were tricking people with smoke and mirrors this entire time (Especially Richard who seemed fine with Locke pressuring Ben to go visit Jacob from S3)…To think Jacob is purely a hoax is to ignore all the phenomenon associated with his cabin (Which includes the whole Christian aspect)…I can’t do that…[/quote]

    YOU might not believe “Jacob is a hoax yet still believe that the cabin is skipping in time, or that Hurley saw it, or that John had a dream about Horace building it…” but I certainly can.

    For tens of thousands of years, cultures have invented “gods” to explain things they didn’t understand – the change of the tides, the flooding of the Nile, the sunrise and sunset. Over time, science has explained most of these things and we realize that RA, Thor, Zeus, etc. aren’t real because we now understand the science behind these things.

    Just because I believe Jacob could be, in your words, a hoax, does NOT negate the other as-yet-unexplained phenomena on the island. The island has healing powers, moves in time, is protected by a smoke monster, is inhabited by Others. Whether or not these things are ‘real’ has nothing to do with the fact that some of those inhabitants (in this case, Richard, Ben, possibly Widmore) may have created a mythological creature (Jacob) to explain things they did not understand, or could not explain to the other Others.

    Simply put, Jacob and “everything else” do not have to be mutually exclusive.

    As for “Richard who seemed fine with Locke pressuring Ben to go visit Jacob from S3,” I maintain that Alpert himself may have perpetuated the myth of Jacob with a tape recorder and a few strings (just as the villains on Scooby Doo have been doing for years).

    Jacob very well could be real, I am simply pointing out that he doesn’t HAVE to be.

    : ) P

  395. Pats says:

    Mayber worth noting that in the episode where Desmond is on the freighter having his ‘flash back’ doo dahs and Daniel manages to help him get out of it, Dan then writes in his journal ‘Desmond Hume is my constant’ – his reminder for if the same thing happened to him. This might explain why Eloise was so pivotal in getting Desmond to go on his round world trip where he got washed up (because she reads in the journal in 1977)- perhaps also why Charles Widmore did all he could to keep him away from Penny which also resulted in him doing the boat trip – he meant it to happen all along. I can’t help thinking that’s going to be re-visited again and I think when Eloise says, ‘I don’t know what’s going to happen’ she’s hoping that whatever is in Daniel’s journal this time round is going to make a difference (not necessarily the Des bit). Sorry, that’s a bit garbled, but maybe some of you clever types can turn that into a sensible theory and connect it somehow!!
    I think next week whatever happens will result in them all ending up in 2007 together again – S, J & K will ‘flash’ back to the right time from the sub. You never can tell though, that’s the beauty of the show!

  396. jaime says:

    Jorge Garcia is going to be on Jimmy Fallon tomorrow night. Then Wednesday he will be on the View with Michael Emerson.

    Both should be good

  397. Miss.Awesome-cherry says:

    [quote comment="334701"]One more bothersome tidbit. How does Sawyer, Juliet, and the other Dharmites get on the sub, that must have come in from Ann Arbor with the Swan crew, some two to three days after the sub drops off the recruits in “Namaste”. The sub makes a round trip from half way around the world in just a couple of days? Even juliet confirmed that the sub would not be back for a couple of months.
    In Whatever happened Happened, the transcript was as follows.

    JULIET: He’s stable now. But I can’t, um…I can’t fix it.

    KATE: What about the sub? I mean, can we take him somewhere?

    JULIET: No. It’s gone. It won’t be back for a couple of months.

    IMO – The Ann Arbor sub must have been unscheduled, and they might have two or more subs, because there is no way. barring time travel, that the sub could have made the trip.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________

    Wow … i totally forgot about that.. I thought Juliette was a villainish character.. but I think she simply lied to Kate about the sub because she wanted her to get caught and banished off the island for she could be with sawyer in peace. However she could remember something and perhaps tried to get all the horrible events started again idk

  398. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="334693"][quote comment="333746"]Is it possible that John Locke is, in fact, Jacob.[/quote]

    Maybe when Jacob said “help me”, he meant kill me.[/quote]
    **************
    i posted something similar in post 180. Maybe John is suppose to kill Jacob…still not sure if I think Jacob is a “real” person…time will tell!
    -miss

  399. wingman says:

    [quote comment="334713"][quote comment="334703"]You can’t believe Jacob is a hoax yet still believe that the cabin is skipping in time, or that Hurley saw it, or that John had a dream about Horace building it… If Jacob is a hoax then everything else has to be aswell…Now I think perhaps Richard or Ben may not know exactly what Jacob is, only that he exists or has been right about certain future events, but I doubt seriously they were tricking people with smoke and mirrors this entire time (Especially Richard who seemed fine with Locke pressuring Ben to go visit Jacob from S3)…To think Jacob is purely a hoax is to ignore all the phenomenon associated with his cabin (Which includes the whole Christian aspect)…I can’t do that…[/quote]

    YOU might not believe “Jacob is a hoax yet still believe that the cabin is skipping in time, or that Hurley saw it, or that John had a dream about Horace building it…” but I certainly can.

    For tens of thousands of years, cultures have invented “gods” to explain things they didn’t understand – the change of the tides, the flooding of the Nile, the sunrise and sunset. Over time, science has explained most of these things and we realize that RA, Thor, Zeus, etc. aren’t real because we now understand the science behind these things.

    Just because I believe Jacob could be, in your words, a hoax, does NOT negate the other as-yet-unexplained phenomena on the island. The island has healing powers, moves in time, is protected by a smoke monster, is inhabited by Others. Whether or not these things are ‘real’ has nothing to do with the fact that some of those inhabitants (in this case, Richard, Ben, possibly Widmore) may have created a mythological creature (Jacob) to explain things they did not understand, or could not explain to the other Others.

    Simply put, Jacob and “everything else” do not have to be mutually exclusive.

    As for “Richard who seemed fine with Locke pressuring Ben to go visit Jacob from S3,” I maintain that Alpert himself may have perpetuated the myth of Jacob with a tape recorder and a few strings (just as the villains on Scooby Doo have been doing for years).

    Jacob very well could be real, I am simply pointing out that he doesn’t HAVE to be.

    : ) P[/quote]

    LMAO, we seem to have quite a “difference” of opinion here, so I’ll have to explain even further with less subtlety…

    Locke saw SOMEONE in the Cabin…

    We don’t know if Richard or Ben has ever seen the person LOCKE SAW…

    Therefore even if Ben and Richard have been using Jacob to create a “god” or whatever that doesn’t mean he isn’t real (which is what you’re basically saying so why are you disagreeing? Or maybe I’m crazy…)

    I guess at the end of the day I’m saying : Locke saw someone who is “real” or tangible (Not some fake ghost illusion made by Richard or whoever which is frankly stupid I think, not they couldn’t have rigged the cabin, but the person in the chair) …If you think Locke saw somebody in the cabin yet you still think Jacob is a hoax you’ve created your own personal paradox…It doesn’t matter if Ben or Richard are just using something they don’t understand to create a God…From a 1st person perspective (That neither Richard or Ben has, i.e. Locke’s perspective//narrative) he has been witnessed…

    Now if you’re saying he still doesn’t HAVE TO BE REAL with this in mind then you’re saying what Locke saw wasn’t real, and if that’s the case then by literary elimination you have to be saying what John saw in his dream and later substantiated by finding Horace’s map is unreal aswell…Because if all those things are part of this fabrication then who the hell did he see in the cabin and who told him to “Help Me…” If all these things are fake why doesn’t Richard know anything about Christian or his understanding time-traveling which Christian states for the audience is an extension of something involving Jacob…

    I was morso talking to the people that are saying that Jacob is a 100% hoax or there is no Jacob or never was a Jacob…But again, if he DOESN’T HAVE TO BE REAL (as you suggest), then who did John see and talk too? And why would seeing the false image that Richard and//or Ben wanted him to see (if it’s a hoax) make Ben want to kill him in the Dharma pit because HE SAW IT?! That makes no sense…Too much surrounding this character just for him to be a hoax…I believe he//it is the glue that sticks the 2 current Past and future storylines together…

  400. jaime says:

    [quote comment="334741"][quote comment="334693"][quote comment="333746"]Is it possible that John Locke is, in fact, Jacob.[/quote]

    Maybe when Jacob said “help me”, he meant kill me.[/quote]
    **************
    i posted something similar in post 180. Maybe John is suppose to kill Jacob…still not sure if I think Jacob is a “real” person…time will tell!
    -miss[/quote]
    ****************************************

    IMO, he is real. I hope I’m right

  401. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334740"][quote comment="334701"]One more bothersome tidbit. How does Sawyer, Juliet, and the other Dharmites get on the sub, that must have come in from Ann Arbor with the Swan crew, some two to three days after the sub drops off the recruits in “Namaste”. The sub makes a round trip from half way around the world in just a couple of days? Even juliet confirmed that the sub would not be back for a couple of months.
    In Whatever happened Happened, the transcript was as follows.

    JULIET: He’s stable now. But I can’t, um…I can’t fix it.

    KATE: What about the sub? I mean, can we take him somewhere?

    JULIET: No. It’s gone. It won’t be back for a couple of months.

    IMO – The Ann Arbor sub must have been unscheduled, and they might have two or more subs, because there is no way. barring time travel, that the sub could have made the trip.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________

    Wow … i totally forgot about that.. I thought Juliette was a villainish character.. but I think she simply lied to Kate about the sub because she wanted her to get caught and banished off the island for she could be with sawyer in peace. However she could remember something and perhaps tried to get all the horrible events started again idk[/quote]

    ########################################

    I think you may be right about Juliet. That would mean that she lied about the sub being gone. Now I just have to figure out How thw Ann Arbor people got to the island in a sub that either never left, or madea round trip from wherever in a matter of three days.

    Could be possible if they took the sub out of Fiji, and flew the Ann Arbor folks to Fiji to meet up with it.

    I guess it is possible that Sawyer, being the head of Dharma security, would not know about a sub scheduled to arrive. This is a possibility because The same Dharma idiots that did not inform Sawyer about the sub gave the prison cell keys to the Janitor.

  402. The Kath says:

    Hey Jaime as for your

    “4. Where are Rose and Bernard and where have they been?”

    read posts 267 and 268

  403. PJSander says:

    Wingman, I think you are still going with an either / or scenario. I tried to understand what you were saying and that is what I feel is the gist of it.

    [quote comment="334742"]
    Locke saw SOMEONE in the Cabin…

    [snip]

    I guess at the end of the day I’m saying : Locke saw someone who is “real” or tangible

    [snip]

    But again, if he DOESN’T HAVE TO BE REAL (as you suggest), then who did John see and talk too? And why would seeing the false image that Richard and//or Ben wanted him to see (if it’s a hoax) make Ben want to kill him in the Dharma pit because HE SAW IT?! That makes no sense…Too much surrounding this character just for him to be a hoax…I believe he//it is the glue that sticks the 2 current Past and future storylines together…[/quote]

    First of all, that figure in the cabin could have been a manifestation of Smokey. Smokey has “made himself” into Yemi and Alex, why not the prop guy? But it could still be that Alpert worked a little island magic to perpetuate the myth. He may even have done that IN ORDER TO GET BEN TO KILL Locke because Locke was getting too close to the “there is no Jacob” secret.

    Second, you say that too much of the storyline has been wrapped up in Jacob. I disagree. Jacob has been a piece in the puzzle, but no more pertinent than any of the other mysteries.

    But then, as you said, we disagree on this.

    [quote comment="334742"]
    Now if you’re saying he still doesn’t HAVE TO BE REAL with this in mind then you’re saying what Locke saw wasn’t real, and if that’s the case then by literary elimination you have to be saying what John saw in his dream and later substantiated by finding Horace’s map is unreal aswell…Because if all those things are part of this fabrication then who the hell did he see in the cabin and who told him to “Help Me…” If all these things are fake why doesn’t Richard know anything about Christian or his understanding time-traveling which Christian states for the audience is an extension of something involving Jacob…

    [/quote]

    What is “literary elimination?”

    What John saw was a DREAM. A vision. The island may well have influenced that dream, but that doesn’t prove that Jacob exists, no more than dreams of sugarplums dancing in your head proves the existence of Santa Claus.

    Christian, time-traveling, smoke-monsters, resurrection, self-healing, frozen-donkey-wheels, four-toed-statues, DHARMA sharks and polar bears, hurley birds, underground tunnels – they are all part of a mythology… things we do not yet understand fully. Jacob as the nice (convenient) god who can explain everything to us? That would be the cop-out in my opinion. If Jacob IS real, I hope he is as confused as we are.

    : ) P

  404. The Kath says:

    Just want to throw this out there…

    In the bible, Jacob had a wife who died in labor giving birth to their some Benjamin.

  405. The Kath says:

    I meant…their son Benjamin

  406. Ares says:

    Who is Jacob? Somebody please tell me, I can’t take it anymore. Will we find out? Oh, I hope so. It’s too much…

  407. LINS says:

    [quote comment="334703"]You can’t believe Jacob is a hoax yet still believe that the cabin is skipping in time, or that Hurley saw it, or that John had a dream about Horace building it… If Jacob is a hoax then everything else has to be aswell…Now I think perhaps Richard or Ben may not know exactly what Jacob is, only that he exists or has been right about certain future events, but I doubt seriously they were tricking people with smoke and mirrors this entire time (Especially Richard who seemed fine with Locke pressuring Ben to go visit Jacob from S3)…To think Jacob is purely a hoax is to ignore all the phenomenon associated with his cabin (Which includes the whole Christian aspect)…I can’t do that…[/quote]

    ***********************
    maybe that’s why Jacob insists on not using technology…because if the cabin is skipping in time separately from the island, he might not know what time he’ll end up in, so if it happened to flash back waaaay before electricity and modern conveniences, flipping a switch would seem weird. I believe that there is a Jacob and that he is a very real person. I can’t wait to see what happens when Locke and crew find his cabin…the suspense is killing me!!!

  408. wingman says:

    It’s times like this I wish this was a forum…Inevitably I’ll have to shorten my posts a bit, but first off (I find the quote code indigestible, so)

    PJ Said:
    Christian, time-traveling, smoke-monsters, resurrection, self-healing, frozen-donkey-wheels, four-toed-statues, DHARMA sharks and polar bears, hurley birds, underground tunnels – they are all part of a mythology… things we do not yet understand fully. Jacob as the nice (convenient) god who can explain everything to us? That would be the cop-out in my opinion.

    =========================

    When the heck did I ever say any of this? I have never conveyed anything about Jacob being some convenient God, or that that would be my hope for him…That’s lame…I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway for example)or Ben//Richard is manipulating him…I have never expressed any sentiment that makes my core thoughts on Jacob as being some supernatural being that controls all the weird things on the island…That pre-K concepts IMO…Please don’t wrap me in that blanket…

    As for the point about “literary elimination”, I have an English and Journalism degree and I’d like to think I know a little bit about writing techniques (I know here it comes^^)…I’ve written screenplays, and scripts (not that they’ve been any good lol) and studied Aristole’s teachings on theater and i feel like my knowledge of certain writing techniques is what has helped me figure out certain things about the show…Now again I could be totally wrong and will fall on the sword if I am, but the way everything has played out it seems to me that the whole “Jacob” subplot is building toward unifying the 2 storylines (Losties in Past–Losties in future)…If Jacob’s only purpose was to be marionette for Ben and//or Richard then all the elements used to prop up the reveal of said character seems wasted…If Jacob only has to deal with Locke-Ben’s side of things then I think that’s shitty writing based on all the characters and situations that have interacted with his subplot…

    I don’t find Christian’s association to the cabin some arbitrary plot point, nor do i find the specific dream of John Locke to find the map to find the cabin as some sort of vague mythology that you preach about (I find this to be a specific narrative)…I understand what the island mythology is (and the fact D&C is gonna hide behind that and not give us so many answers in the end frustrates me),but don’t think when I talk about Jacob as a specific storyline I’m talking about ALL the weird happenings…
    =============
    PJ said:
    Second, you say that too much of the storyline has been wrapped up in Jacob. I disagree. Jacob has been a piece in the puzzle, but no more pertinent than any of the other mysteries.

    ==================

    Again you misquote me…I said there has been too much surrounding this character for it to be a hoax IMO…Those things aren’t mythological vagaries but the explicit points of Jacob’s lists, his leadership dynamic, his connection to Christian and//or Hurley, and the fact that JOHN LOCKE SEES HIM (and no i don’t think the smoke monster chose that 1 time in the entire history of the show to manifest itself into something only 1 person in a room with 2 people could see)…

    This post has gone much longer than i wanted (that’s why i wish it could be a forum post), but the main point you need to understand is that I’m basing this on a specific subplot, not as some arbitrary write off to mythology…Sorry but Jacob doesn’t equal the Hurley Bird to me and for him to be that inconsequential I’m gonna have to sweep so much shit under the rug (literary evidence) your gonna think Hurley was under it…

  409. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334775"]When the heck did I ever say any of this? I have never conveyed anything about Jacob being some convenient God, or that that would be my hope for him.[/quote]

    I am sorry that you felt I was implying that is what you said. That is how I interpreted a small part of what you wrote. I expressed my opinion on the matter with reference to the SHOW and not with reference to your POST.

    I apologize for misunderstanding your points. I stand corrected. I further apologize that I was not able to clearly state my opinion with my posts. I never meant for you to feel as if I were attacking you. I was sharing my interpretation of the events in the show.

    Please, if you could, I would appreciate further information on the term “literary elimination” because I have not heard it. I googled it and found very limited uses of it and would like to understand the reference. You said that you are a writer and this is a writing technique, but if, in your post, you explained how the technique works, I missed it and I apologize.

    Thank you in advance.

    : ) P

  410. RGS says:

    [quote comment="334704"] ********************************************
    Basically one thing they put to rest that i thought was the largest surprise was that the Faraday/Chang comic-con vid was not cannon.
    :)[/quote]

    Not only did they refute the comic-con video as canon, but they said they only consider what is on the show as canon…if that means anything (I believe them).

  411. wingman says:

    @PJ Sander – Please no need for an apology, I’m just a passionate poster…I like a little cage-rattling, so don’t let my comeback soothe your spirit…Don’t let the text fool ya, and if it does smack me back if you must^^…

    As for the term “literary elimination”, that’s not a specific term that was just my way of saying the literary evidence of the circumstances and characters associated to Jacob’s subplot,by elimination (i.e. process of elimination), have to be lumped into the same area of disbelief…I don’t think you set-up Jacob the way they did, then later have Christian talking on behalf of him (which he states),and have the cabin moving thru time-space, and having Horace give john a specific dream that helps him find his cabin map, etc., if Jacob is just a hoax created by Ben and//or Richard…

    I’m basically saying my interpretation of how the writers have handled the Jacob subplot leads me to believe that if Jacob doesn’t have to be real (or never was real),then the accompanying storyline won’t feel as sensible for me personally…I just think if your premise is that Ben//Richard are just using tomfoolery to create this Jacob guy, i have to ignore too much that dissuades me of that view…I know Ben is the God of all actors on this show, but i take him at his anger when he shot Locke in the gut for hearing what Jacob said…To me it makes no sense to be trying to fool John into seeing some hoax, then shoot him for actually seeing it…If your only comeback is the smoke monster on this, I can’t agree with that (because it has not once acted in this manner)…Additionally i think we have already dealt with the whole “Wizard of OZ” plot-point it’ll be redundant if this is the be all end all…

    We’ll see, and if your right I’ll eat it…

  412. PJSander says:

    Fair enough, Wingman. In fairness, I never said there WAS no Jacob, only that is was a possibility. Perhaps we’ll know enough to decide in less than 48 hours!

    : ) P

  413. wingman says:

    Dude if I’m wrong i’m gonna be sick…If Jacob is just Chris Angel on uppers I’m gonna be physically ill…He has to be the key between the 2 timeframes…I hope…

  414. Whoever says:

    Leah, please go back to using your own name. Your three or four sudonomes are confusing. We know it’s you.

  415. Tara says:

    Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.

  416. LINS says:

    When John “saw” Jacob, didn’t the screen shots of Jacob show an eye? If I remember correctly from that show (and from Lostpedia), there was an eye and it was compared to Jack’s and Locke’s eyes and it looked nothing like them. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob

  417. steve says:

    I wonder if Mikhail lost eye has anything to do with jacob.

  418. Locke is Jacob says:

    Richard somehow stole Locke’s birthright and is currently acting in the role of Locke. I was reading through the story of Isaac’s twin son’s (Abraham’s Grandson’s) Jacob and Esau… seems that Richard somehow worked his way into his role and it is Locke that should be doing whatever it is Richard is doing. After re-watching the ep last night, I kept getting the feeling that through deception, Richard is in a position of power he shouldn’t be in, and is using Ben to conceal his lie. What if this betrayal of “the island” is the reason children cant be born on the island in modern times???

  419. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334848"]When John “saw” Jacob, didn’t the screen shots of Jacob show an eye? If I remember correctly from that show (and from Lostpedia), there was an eye and it was compared to Jack’s and Locke’s eyes and it looked nothing like them. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%5B/quote%5D

    ——————
    I am trying to do some research on this, because for some reason I really don’t like the fact that Locke=Jacob. I can’t really explain why I feel this way.

    BUT!

    The eye of Jacob that was shown looks to be of a brown color. I pulled up these two screen shots. It looks like Locke’s eye color is blue.

    However, I guess the silhouette screenshoot looks like john locke’s head with hair???

    any thoughts?

  420. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="334740"][quote comment="334701"]One more bothersome tidbit. How does Sawyer, Juliet, and the other Dharmites get on the sub, that must have come in from Ann Arbor with the Swan crew, some two to three days after the sub drops off the recruits in “Namaste”. The sub makes a round trip from half way around the world in just a couple of days? Even juliet confirmed that the sub would not be back for a couple of months.
    In Whatever happened Happened, the transcript was as follows.

    JULIET: He’s stable now. But I can’t, um…I can’t fix it.

    KATE: What about the sub? I mean, can we take him somewhere?

    JULIET: No. It’s gone. It won’t be back for a couple of months.

    IMO – The Ann Arbor sub must have been unscheduled, and they might have two or more subs, because there is no way. barring time travel, that the sub could have made the trip.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________

    Wow … i totally forgot about that.. I thought Juliette was a villainish character.. but I think she simply lied to Kate about the sub because she wanted her to get caught and banished off the island for she could be with sawyer in peace. However she could remember something and perhaps tried to get all the horrible events started again idk[/quote]
    ______________

    As a stout defender of Juliette, I don’t think she is a villain in any way. I do not consider her an “Other” in any way. She may have lived with the Others for a while, but ahe was tricked into coming to the island, and has spend most of her time trying to leave. The fact that her efforts have always come to nought and she has resigned herself to being trapped there, does not mean she is evil. As far as Ben telling her that she was “one of us”, I think that was just Ben’s wishful thinking. He has had a crush on her and wanted her (to be part of the Others as well as for himself), but she has never played into that. The only person she connected with was her lover (can’t remember the name now), but that was in many ways apart from the whole group of Others. I have liked her from the begining and stand behind her being good.

  421. LINS says:

    [quote comment="334854"][quote comment="334848"]When John “saw” Jacob, didn’t the screen shots of Jacob show an eye? If I remember correctly from that show (and from Lostpedia), there was an eye and it was compared to Jack’s and Locke’s eyes and it looked nothing like them. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%5B/quote%5D

    ——————
    I am trying to do some research on this, because for some reason I really don’t like the fact that Locke=Jacob. I can’t really explain why I feel this way.

    BUT!

    The eye of Jacob that was shown looks to be of a brown color. I pulled up these two screen shots. It looks like Locke’s eye color is blue.

    However, I guess the silhouette screenshoot looks like john locke’s head with hair???

    any thoughts?[/quote]

    **************************
    I don’t think it’s Locke at all, I think that’s what they are setting everyone up to believe, but then the reveal will be a big shocker. It doesn’t look one bit like Locke’s eye to me, and I don’t even think it looks like Locke with hair. I do think it means that Jacob is a real person though…

  422. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334856"][quote comment="334854"][quote comment="334848"]When John “saw” Jacob, didn’t the screen shots of Jacob show an eye? If I remember correctly from that show (and from Lostpedia), there was an eye and it was compared to Jack’s and Locke’s eyes and it looked nothing like them. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%5B/quote%5D

    ——————
    I am trying to do some research on this, because for some reason I really don’t like the fact that Locke=Jacob. I can’t really explain why I feel this way.

    BUT!

    The eye of Jacob that was shown looks to be of a brown color. I pulled up these two screen shots. It looks like Locke’s eye color is blue.

    However, I guess the silhouette screenshoot looks like john locke’s head with hair???

    any thoughts?[/quote]

    **************************
    I don’t think it’s Locke at all, I think that’s what they are setting everyone up to believe, but then the reveal will be a big shocker. It doesn’t look one bit like Locke’s eye to me, and I don’t even think it looks like Locke with hair. I do think it means that Jacob is a real person though…[/quote]
    ____________________

    Awesome…that’s the page that I’m on…right there with you!!!

  423. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334856"]
    I don’t think it’s Locke at all, I think that’s what they are setting everyone up to believe, but then the reveal will be a big shocker. It doesn’t look one bit like Locke’s eye to me, and I don’t even think it looks like Locke with hair. I do think it means that Jacob is a real person though…[/quote]

    This is a reply to the whole thread, not just LINS…

    No matter who or what Jacob turns out to be, it matters not what you get from the screenshots! D&C have already told us that the guy who “played” Jacob in the cabin was the show’s PROP MASTER – not even a real actor! The identity of Jacob is so well hidden that whoever Jacob actually IS hasn’t played him on screen (yet).

    : ) P

  424. JZ says:

    I heard there is going to be a special on from 8-9p….titled “LOST: A Journey in Time”

    Anyone else know about this and have any details about what it is?

  425. jaime says:

    [quote comment="334750"]Hey Jaime as for your

    “4. Where are Rose and Bernard and where have they been?”

    read posts 267 and 268[/quote]
    ***************************************8

    Thanks The Kath. What I more so want to know is where have they been. Have they been time traveling? In the Temple? Out on their own w/ vincent in the jungle? etc.

  426. LINS says:

    [quote comment="334858"][quote comment="334856"]
    I don’t think it’s Locke at all, I think that’s what they are setting everyone up to believe, but then the reveal will be a big shocker. It doesn’t look one bit like Locke’s eye to me, and I don’t even think it looks like Locke with hair. I do think it means that Jacob is a real person though…[/quote]

    This is a reply to the whole thread, not just LINS…

    No matter who or what Jacob turns out to be, it matters not what you get from the screenshots! D&C have already told us that the guy who “played” Jacob in the cabin was the show’s PROP MASTER – not even a real actor! The identity of Jacob is so well hidden that whoever Jacob actually IS hasn’t played him on screen (yet).

    : ) P[/quote]

    **************************
    I agree, I think the writers are probably having a good laugh readiing everyone’s predictions of who Jacob might be…especially those who think it’s Vincent… :)

  427. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334862"]I heard there is going to be a special on from 8-9p….titled “LOST: A Journey in Time”

    Anyone else know about this and have any details about what it is?[/quote]

    As I understand it, the special is another re-cap. From the ABC Press Release:

    THE OCEANIC 6’S RETURN TO THE ISLAND, THE VIOLENT SHIFTS THROUGH TIME FOR THE REMAINING ISLAND SURVIVORS, LIVING IN ‘70S DHARMA TIMES,
    AND THE RESURRECTION OF LOCKE WILL BE EXPLORED, ON “LOST: A JOURNEY IN TIME,” MAY 13 ON ABC

    ABC once again invites new and avid “Lost” viewers to take another look at one of the most talked about and critically acclaimed shows. “Lost: A Journey in Time” will explore the series in a way that will bring new viewers up to date — but which current viewers will also find illuminating – in discovering how the Oceanic 6 were able to get back to the island, what happened to the survivors left behind during the three years after Ben moved the island, and the fate of Locke. “Lost: A Journey in Time” airs WEDNESDAY, MAY 13 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

    : ) P

  428. PJSander says:

    Reading between the lines, perhaps we’ll finally found out where Rose and Bernard are / have been!?

    : ) P

  429. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334865"][quote comment="334862"]I heard there is going to be a special on from 8-9p….titled “LOST: A Journey in Time”

    Anyone else know about this and have any details about what it is?[/quote]

    As I understand it, the special is another re-cap. From the ABC Press Release:

    THE OCEANIC 6’S RETURN TO THE ISLAND, THE VIOLENT SHIFTS THROUGH TIME FOR THE REMAINING ISLAND SURVIVORS, LIVING IN ‘70S DHARMA TIMES,
    AND THE RESURRECTION OF LOCKE WILL BE EXPLORED, ON “LOST: A JOURNEY IN TIME,” MAY 13 ON ABC

    ABC once again invites new and avid “Lost” viewers to take another look at one of the most talked about and critically acclaimed shows. “Lost: A Journey in Time” will explore the series in a way that will bring new viewers up to date — but which current viewers will also find illuminating – in discovering how the Oceanic 6 were able to get back to the island, what happened to the survivors left behind during the three years after Ben moved the island, and the fate of Locke. “Lost: A Journey in Time” airs WEDNESDAY, MAY 13 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________

    wooooooord…..thanks for your help :)

  430. wingman says:

    [quote comment="334846"]Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.[/quote]

    Just from a literary perspective it would make sense for it to be Jack (Main character = Main character), but these guys can pull the rug from under all of us if they choose…I hate to even predict stuff about this show because you can look like a fool pretty quickly, but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…

  431. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.[/quote]

    Just from a literary perspective it would make sense for it to be Jack (Main character = Main character), but these guys can pull the rug from under all of us if they choose…I hate to even predict stuff about this show because you can look like a fool pretty quickly, but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    _________________

    Totally with you on that one wingman!!!! I’ve thought that for a while! Yay!

  432. Ra says:

    Can anyone here tell me about “the list”…remember when Malaki was pushed by lock through the sonic fence…he said to Kate that she wasnt on “the list” because she was “flawed”…whatever happened to this list..it was a big part of the show a few seasons ago…then…nobody talks about it again…what gives

  433. jaime says:

    [quote comment="334872"]Can anyone here tell me about “the list”…remember when Malaki was pushed by lock through the sonic fence…he said to Kate that she wasnt on “the list” because she was “flawed”…whatever happened to this list..it was a big part of the show a few seasons ago…then…nobody talks about it again…what gives[/quote]
    ***************************************

    Ben’s, Mikhails, Jacob’s, Bea’s lists and all others can be found here http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lists
    Non-canon of course

  434. wingman says:

    @RA – The only thing I’ll tell you about the list is that “Jack” was never on Jacob’s list …Now Sawyer, Kate, and Hurley were on the list and they are all still alive….You’ll have to jumble the rest…

  435. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.[/quote]

    Just from a literary perspective it would make sense for it to be Jack (Main character = Main character), but these guys can pull the rug from under all of us if they choose…I hate to even predict stuff about this show because you can look like a fool pretty quickly, but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    ****************************

    WoW! That makes all kinds of sense to me. I dont know how that would fit in with him being Jacob, but i can totally see it fitting in with him always waking up in the same spot! Excellent!

    *quick rock out on air guitar*

  436. LostGator says:

    [quote comment="334855"][quote comment="334740"][quote comment="334701"]One more bothersome tidbit. How does Sawyer, Juliet, and the other Dharmites get on the sub, that must have come in from Ann Arbor with the Swan crew, some two to three days after the sub drops off the recruits in “Namaste”. The sub makes a round trip from half way around the world in just a couple of days? Even juliet confirmed that the sub would not be back for a couple of months.
    In Whatever happened Happened, the transcript was as follows.

    JULIET: He’s stable now. But I can’t, um…I can’t fix it.

    KATE: What about the sub? I mean, can we take him somewhere?

    JULIET: No. It’s gone. It won’t be back for a couple of months.

    IMO – The Ann Arbor sub must have been unscheduled, and they might have two or more subs, because there is no way. barring time travel, that the sub could have made the trip.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________

    Wow … i totally forgot about that.. I thought Juliette was a villainish character.. but I think she simply lied to Kate about the sub because she wanted her to get caught and banished off the island for she could be with sawyer in peace. However she could remember something and perhaps tried to get all the horrible events started again idk[/quote]
    ______________

    As a stout defender of Juliette, I don’t think she is a villain in any way. I do not consider her an “Other” in any way. She may have lived with the Others for a while, but ahe was tricked into coming to the island, and has spend most of her time trying to leave. The fact that her efforts have always come to nought and she has resigned herself to being trapped there, does not mean she is evil. As far as Ben telling her that she was “one of us”, I think that was just Ben’s wishful thinking. He has had a crush on her and wanted her (to be part of the Others as well as for himself), but she has never played into that. The only person she connected with was her lover (can’t remember the name now), but that was in many ways apart from the whole group of Others. I have liked her from the begining and stand behind her being good.[/quote]

    I thought the sub that “brought” Jack, Hurly and Kate left. Then days later (Sayid captured interrogated and escapes, Ben shot and taken to Others) Miles and Hurly spend day with Chang. At end of that episode, Chang catches Miles outside of his house (where Miles is seeing himself as baby) and tells him (paraphrase “Take me to dock we have surprise visitors from Ann Arbor” and Miles goes to sub and Daniel gets out. So thats the sub Kate, Sawyer and Juliet are in. Not Juliet subterfuge—YET!

    This is my first post–been reading the blog all season. Let me know if I blew it!

  437. steve says:

    [quote comment="334878"][quote comment="334855"][quote comment="334740"][quote comment="334701"]One more bothersome tidbit. How does Sawyer, Juliet, and the other Dharmites get on the sub, that must have come in from Ann Arbor with the Swan crew, some two to three days after the sub drops off the recruits in “Namaste”. The sub makes a round trip from half way around the world in just a couple of days? Even juliet confirmed that the sub would not be back for a couple of months.
    In Whatever happened Happened, the transcript was as follows.

    Very good synopsis!! I still don’t know if there is more than one sub, and it may not be important. I know the timing was strange, but the shooting of en occurred one day after jack & co. arrive in 1977. We know this because commented about three years no flaming busses and … back one day…

    JULIET: He’s stable now. But I can’t, um…I can’t fix it.

    KATE: What about the sub? I mean, can we take him somewhere?

    JULIET: No. It’s gone. It won’t be back for a couple of months.

    IMO – The Ann Arbor sub must have been unscheduled, and they might have two or more subs, because there is no way. barring time travel, that the sub could have made the trip.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________

    Wow … i totally forgot about that.. I thought Juliette was a villainish character.. but I think she simply lied to Kate about the sub because she wanted her to get caught and banished off the island for she could be with sawyer in peace. However she could remember something and perhaps tried to get all the horrible events started again idk[/quote]
    ______________

    As a stout defender of Juliette, I don’t think she is a villain in any way. I do not consider her an “Other” in any way. She may have lived with the Others for a while, but ahe was tricked into coming to the island, and has spend most of her time trying to leave. The fact that her efforts have always come to nought and she has resigned herself to being trapped there, does not mean she is evil. As far as Ben telling her that she was “one of us”, I think that was just Ben’s wishful thinking. He has had a crush on her and wanted her (to be part of the Others as well as for himself), but she has never played into that. The only person she connected with was her lover (can’t remember the name now), but that was in many ways apart from the whole group of Others. I have liked her from the begining and stand behind her being good.[/quote]

    I thought the sub that “brought” Jack, Hurly and Kate left. Then days later (Sayid captured interrogated and escapes, Ben shot and taken to Others) Miles and Hurly spend day with Chang. At end of that episode, Chang catches Miles outside of his house (where Miles is seeing himself as baby) and tells him (paraphrase “Take me to dock we have surprise visitors from Ann Arbor” and Miles goes to sub and Daniel gets out. So thats the sub Kate, Sawyer and Juliet are in. Not Juliet subterfuge—YET!

    This is my first post–been reading the blog all season. Let me know if I blew it![/quote]
    _________________________________________

    Yes. Surprise visitors from Ann Arbor. How did the sub get there so fast? Ben is shot the night of the flaming bus, which according to Sawyer was one day after Jack & Co. arrive. Only one or two days could have passed since the bus incident.

  438. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="334878"][quote comment="334855"][quote comment="334740"][quote comment="334701"]One more bothersome tidbit. How does Sawyer, Juliet, and the other Dharmites get on the sub, that must have come in from Ann Arbor with the Swan crew, some two to three days after the sub drops off the recruits in “Namaste”. The sub makes a round trip from half way around the world in just a couple of days? Even juliet confirmed that the sub would not be back for a couple of months.
    In Whatever happened Happened, the transcript was as follows.

    JULIET: He’s stable now. But I can’t, um…I can’t fix it.

    KATE: What about the sub? I mean, can we take him somewhere?

    JULIET: No. It’s gone. It won’t be back for a couple of months.

    IMO – The Ann Arbor sub must have been unscheduled, and they might have two or more subs, because there is no way. barring time travel, that the sub could have made the trip.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________

    Wow … i totally forgot about that.. I thought Juliette was a villainish character.. but I think she simply lied to Kate about the sub because she wanted her to get caught and banished off the island for she could be with sawyer in peace. However she could remember something and perhaps tried to get all the horrible events started again idk[/quote]
    ______________

    As a stout defender of Juliette, I don’t think she is a villain in any way. I do not consider her an “Other” in any way. She may have lived with the Others for a while, but ahe was tricked into coming to the island, and has spend most of her time trying to leave. The fact that her efforts have always come to nought and she has resigned herself to being trapped there, does not mean she is evil. As far as Ben telling her that she was “one of us”, I think that was just Ben’s wishful thinking. He has had a crush on her and wanted her (to be part of the Others as well as for himself), but she has never played into that. The only person she connected with was her lover (can’t remember the name now), but that was in many ways apart from the whole group of Others. I have liked her from the begining and stand behind her being good.[/quote]
    ******************************************
    I thought the sub that “brought” Jack, Hurly and Kate left. Then days later (Sayid captured interrogated and escapes, Ben shot and taken to Others) Miles and Hurly spend day with Chang. At end of that episode, Chang catches Miles outside of his house (where Miles is seeing himself as baby) and tells him (paraphrase “Take me to dock we have surprise visitors from Ann Arbor” and Miles goes to sub and Daniel gets out. So thats the sub Kate, Sawyer and Juliet are in. Not Juliet subterfuge—YET!

    This is my first post–been reading the blog all season. Let me know if I blew it![/quote]
    ****************************************

    I totally agree. Daniel was the one who brought the sub –for the sole purpose of using it to get woman and children off island. Juliet wouldn’t have known. BTW Do we know who else was on the sub with him from Ann Arbor?

    good post… you just need to seperate your comments with a line or an asterick something, I took the liberty for you….

  439. jaime says:

    BTW Do we know who else was on the sub with him from Ann Arbor?

    [/quote]
    **************************************

    Dr. Chang was reading to baby Miles when he received a phone call. He told adult Miles that “scientists” were arriving from Ann Arbor.

    Here is a screencap of those who arrived w/ Dan

    http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/026a2b4d698653f1ddced5b4d1fec333

  440. wingman says:

    [quote comment="334876"][quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.[/quote]

    Just from a literary perspective it would make sense for it to be Jack (Main character = Main character), but these guys can pull the rug from under all of us if they choose…I hate to even predict stuff about this show because you can look like a fool pretty quickly, but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    ****************************

    WoW! That makes all kinds of sense to me. I dont know how that would fit in with him being Jacob, but i can totally see it fitting in with him always waking up in the same spot! Excellent!

    *quick rock out on air guitar*[/quote]
    ====================

    LMAO, been saying this for months and months (Been thinking Jack = Jacob since I binged on all 4 seasons over last summer)…But I guess that’s the life of someone who doesn’t watch new episodes until the weekend T_T…

  441. 8eight says:

    I was compelled to this blog …You guys are logical when it comes to my fave show Lost…Im just gonna throw a thought out…Does anyone think that Ann Harbor is a person and not the place
    JULIET: What are we gonna do when we get to Ann Arbor?

    SAWYER: We ain’t going to Ann Arbor.

    JULIET: What do you mean?

    SAWYER: These guys ain’t cops. They got no authority over us back in the real world. So once we dock, wherever we dock… we’re free.

    this conversation loses me I just somehow dont believe there talking about the …. Please Let me know what you think

  442. Cherry-Miss.Awesome says:

    [quote comment="334848"]When John “saw” Jacob, didn’t the screen shots of Jacob show an eye? If I remember correctly from that show (and from Lostpedia), there was an eye and it was compared to Jack’s and Locke’s eyes and it looked nothing like them. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%5B/quote%5D

    ______________________________________________
    I’ve always believed that the eye had strong similaries to Desmonds eye or Ethan ,or RA

  443. LINS says:

    [quote comment="334886"][quote comment="334848"]When John “saw” Jacob, didn’t the screen shots of Jacob show an eye? If I remember correctly from that show (and from Lostpedia), there was an eye and it was compared to Jack’s and Locke’s eyes and it looked nothing like them. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%5B/quote%5D

    ______________________________________________
    I’ve always believed that the eye had strong similaries to Desmonds eye or Ethan ,or RA[/quote]

    **************************
    Haha, not nearly enough eye liner to be Alpert!! But Des is a good possibility I suppose!

  444. steve says:

    [quote comment="334885"]I was compelled to this blog …You guys are logical when it comes to my fave show Lost…Im just gonna throw a thought out…Does anyone think that Ann Harbor is a person and not the place
    JULIET: What are we gonna do when we get to Ann Arbor?

    SAWYER: We ain’t going to Ann Arbor.

    JULIET: What do you mean?

    SAWYER: These guys ain’t cops. They got no authority over us back in the real world. So once we dock, wherever we dock… we’re free.

    this conversation loses me I just somehow dont believe there talking about the …. Please Let me know what you think[/quote]
    ____________________________________

    I’ve always assumed that when the speak of Ann Arbor they are talking about the university of Michigan town where the DeGroots founded the Dharma Initiative.

  445. jaime says:

    [quote comment="334885"]I was compelled to this blog …You guys are logical when it comes to my fave show Lost…Im just gonna throw a thought out…Does anyone think that Ann Harbor is a person and not the place
    JULIET: What are we gonna do when we get to Ann Arbor?

    SAWYER: We ain’t going to Ann Arbor.

    JULIET: What do you mean?

    SAWYER: These guys ain’t cops. They got no authority over us back in the real world. So once we dock, wherever we dock… we’re free.

    this conversation loses me I just somehow dont believe there talking about the …. Please Let me know what you think[/quote]
    ****************************************8

    I think they are actually talking about Ann arbor MI. Where the Degroots, Univ. of Mich etc are. Chang was a professor at UofM, the sub arrived from there and thats where its going back to. IMO

  446. wingman says:

    Alright for all of you who may believe in the Jack = Jacob theory, I think I have another log for that fire…Kate is seemingly useless at this point in the story so I’m thinking that her usefulness will come less in a heroine way (Like it always does) and more in an emotional way…Sawyer is locked in with Juliet, and they pretty much have been giving us blatant “Kate x Jack is OVER” for most of the season (which I don’t buy yet)…So I’m thinking that if indeed Jack is gonna be the one that causes or tries to stop “The Incident”, that they may use Kate as an emotional hurdle to him doing whatever it is he’s gonna do…

    Last episode seemed primetime for Kate to start talking about how they’ll never met, and that she’ll go to jail, and her love for Aaron and their “almost family”, when Jack was talking about hitting the reset button…I thought it was odd she didn’t say anything really about that, so maybe they are saving it for her to have a last emotional appeal to Jack…To make a long story short, maybe Jack does whatever he is about to do, Kate (And probably Sawyer during a 1 on 1) pleads with him about them never knowing the love of each other or some other cheesy-emo moment, AND THAT is what makes Jack either change his mind or try to stop what he just did…Something crazy or unexpected happens in the process, and ”The Incident” occurs trapping Jack in spacetime…In this way it would be “Love” that conquers all and it would be Main man characters’ love for the main female character that actually either causes “The Incident” or traps Jack in the loop (which would of course later make him Jacob somehow) …That would make Kate’s main female character status totally valid as a character’s love for her is what actually made WHH and created the loop…

  447. Nikki says:

    I think the shot of “Jacob” is John Locke. When John finally sees Jacob he’ll be looking at himself. If you look at the forehead and the chin it looks a lot like John Locke. I don’t know why I think it’s John and I can’t wrap my head around the purpose of Jacob or why it would be John.

  448. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334896"]I think the shot of “Jacob” is John Locke. When John finally sees Jacob he’ll be looking at himself. If you look at the forehead and the chin it looks a lot like John Locke. I don’t know why I think it’s John and I can’t wrap my head around the purpose of Jacob or why it would be John.[/quote]

    See post 424.

    : ) P

  449. Rita says:

    [quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]
    [/quote]
    … but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    I actually kind of like this idea. This would allow John to “kill Jacob” as a concept, rather than to literally kill him – by “freeing” Jack, or whomever from his “time entrapment” (and thus killing the concept of Jacob as they “knew” him).

  450. JZ says:

    [quote comment="334907"][quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]
    [/quote]
    … but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    I actually kind of like this idea. This would allow John to “kill Jacob” as a concept, rather than to literally kill him – by “freeing” Jack, or whomever from his “time entrapment” (and thus killing the concept of Jacob as they “knew” him).[/quote]
    ____________________________________

    Now that’s what i’m talking about!!! been feeling that all along…way to put it into words because I lack the skills to do so! I buy it because Kate has sucked alot up until now and really hasn’t had much of a purpose…yes i know i’m a K-ater…(kate + hater)…

  451. Ament20 says:

    the clincher….

    “John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt,
    His name is my name too.”

    but seriously i’ll be shocked if i’m wrong so i hope i am…thats why i love this show.

  452. Ament20 says:

    Here’s another pondering question we know when RA was off the island to recruit Juliet he had access to the submarine to come and go as they pleased….but when John was born in 1954 before DI take over how was he able to be off island and then back…I know the wheel can get you off the island but how did he get back?

    I feel knowing RA’s story will answer most questions about the island.

  453. Steve says:

    [quote comment="334896"]I think the shot of “Jacob” is John Locke. When John finally sees Jacob he’ll be looking at himself. If you look at the forehead and the chin it looks a lot like John Locke. I don’t know why I think it’s John and I can’t wrap my head around the purpose of Jacob or why it would be John.[/quote]

    _______________________________

    I don’t know who Jacob is, but Jacob is a variation of the name James.

  454. Smeezy says:

    question: where did we get a look at jacob? Talking about his chin and how he looks when did we catch a glimpse of him? thanks

    smeezy

  455. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334924"]question: where did we get a look at jacob? Talking about his chin and how he looks when did we catch a glimpse of him? thanks

    smeezy[/quote]

    We saw glimpses of “Jacob” in The Man Behind the Curtain, S3E20.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  456. Ament20 says:

    The Black Rock has been mentioned a few times, just my thoughts on it.

    The Black Rock shipped from England to Thailand in late 19th century. The first mate’s ledger was acquired by the Hanso family and no one outside the Hanso family read until sold on auction to Charles Widmore along with the ship’s portrait.

    Now the Hanso Foundation are the founders of the DI who somehow found the island and built a community there and can come and go as they please, meanwhile CW couldn’t find the island and was trying to get back to it. I believe he found the island with his freighter because he bought the ledger from the auction in the episode “The Constant”.

    How could the Black Rock end up in the middle of the jungle?

    Theory – As we seen in S4 finale the island moves, maybe at one point in time The Black Rock just happened to be sailing by when POP and island came underneath it now becoming a permenant fixture to the island. How else could a boat be in perfect condition way off shore. The first mate’s book now contains the final coordinates and bearing of the black rock before the crash.

    *How the ledger got off the island is beyond me atm but it obviously did.

    Now if this is right, then TBR started the chain of events leading to now. Because if the TBR never crashed or the book ever found, then Alvar Hanso wouldn’t of funded DI to be on the island, the swan would never have been built, an incident would never occur, no button for desmond to push, no 815 crash. Food for thought.

  457. doodle says:

    [quote comment="334870"][quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.[/quote]

    Just from a literary perspective it would make sense for it to be Jack (Main character = Main character), but these guys can pull the rug from under all of us if they choose…I hate to even predict stuff about this show because you can look like a fool pretty quickly, but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    _________________

    Totally with you on that one wingman!!!! I’ve thought that for a while! Yay![/quote]

    That wouldn’t work because Jacob has been there before 1977. Jack would have had to do that much further in the past. 1977.

  458. doodle says:

    Happy Wednesday everyone. Enjoy tonight. You will only have one more day similar to this in your lives, and that is a year from now. Some are going to be upset (because you were wrong). Some are going to be excited (because you were “right”). But I am sure everyone will have a lot to say this time tomorrow. I ave a feeling that we are going to be left hanging like wtf!!! A total game changer. I really think we are going to see something with Jack that no one could have expected, >>>>>>>than Jack=Jacob. Been reading for a few seasons and decided to start posting recently. All your theories have been a joy to read. Can’t wait until 9:00, just 13 hours away!

  459. Tara says:

    [quote comment="334896"]I think the shot of “Jacob” is John Locke. When John finally sees Jacob he’ll be looking at himself. If you look at the forehead and the chin it looks a lot like John Locke. I don’t know why I think it’s John and I can’t wrap my head around the purpose of Jacob or why it would be John.[/quote]

    As much as it makes sense that is should be Jack (with Christian and Clair hanging out in the cabin and etc.) I do have to say the profile of Jacob does resemble John.

  460. Tara says:

    [quote comment="334938"][quote comment="334870"][quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.[/quote]

    Just from a literary perspective it would make sense for it to be Jack (Main character = Main character), but these guys can pull the rug from under all of us if they choose…I hate to even predict stuff about this show because you can look like a fool pretty quickly, but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    _________________

    Totally with you on that one wingman!!!! I’ve thought that for a while! Yay![/quote]

    That wouldn’t work because Jacob has been there before 1977. Jack would have had to do that much further in the past. 1977.[/quote]

    That would be true if time on the Island was going in one direction.

  461. steve says:

    Any one else have any ideas on my theory that What lies in the shadow of the statue is the Black Rock. I think there is more to this ship that meets the eye.

  462. LINS says:

    [quote comment="334945"]Any one else have any ideas on my theory that What lies in the shadow of the statue is the Black Rock. I think there is more to this ship that meets the eye.[/quote]

    Maybe the “shadow” is the Dark Territory that Danielle talked about?

  463. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334931"]
    How could the Black Rock end up in the middle of the jungle?
    [/quote]

    Your idea that the island moved up under TBR has been sited here previously and it makes sense. Before we knew the island was traveling in time, it was posited that TBR rode a tidal wave to the middle of the jungle.

    I hope we find out more about this piece of the puzzle.

    : ) P

  464. Rita says:

    [quote comment="334947"][quote comment="334931"]
    How could the Black Rock end up in the middle of the jungle?
    [/quote]

    Your idea that the island moved up under TBR has been sited here previously and it makes sense. Before we knew the island was traveling in time, it was posited that TBR rode a tidal wave to the middle of the jungle.

    I hope we find out more about this piece of the puzzle.

    : ) P[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Clearly, RA putting together a tall ship model is a big hint that we will see more of the Black Rock’s story soon – at least I hope so!

  465. Miss lost says:

    PJ, I know you have answered this more than once…but is tonight just a recap? And then next week we get the 2 hour final? It is early here and my brain in not awake yet/
    -Miss

  466. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334949"]PJ, I know you have answered this more than once…but is tonight just a recap? And then next week we get the 2 hour final? It is early here and my brain in not awake yet/
    -Miss[/quote]

    Hey, I haven’t answered it since last Wednesday, no problem! LOL

    Tonight, we have a one hour recap at 8pm, followed by the two hour season finale at 9pm.

    [quote comment="334865"]
    From the ABC Press Release:

    THE OCEANIC 6’S RETURN TO THE ISLAND, THE VIOLENT SHIFTS THROUGH TIME FOR THE REMAINING ISLAND SURVIVORS, LIVING IN ‘70S DHARMA TIMES, AND THE RESURRECTION OF LOCKE WILL BE EXPLORED, ON “LOST: A JOURNEY IN TIME,” MAY 13 ON ABC

    ABC once again invites new and avid “Lost” viewers to take another look at one of the most talked about and critically acclaimed shows. “Lost: A Journey in Time” will explore the series in a way that will bring new viewers up to date — but which current viewers will also find illuminating – in discovering how the Oceanic 6 were able to get back to the island, what happened to the survivors left behind during the three years after Ben moved the island, and the fate of Locke. “Lost: A Journey in Time” airs WEDNESDAY, MAY 13 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

    : ) P[/quote]

  467. Miss lost says:

    I really can’t wait…sometimes I am so excited to get the answers, but then again it is fun to talk about and argue about the different possibilites this show could be…very excited for tonight!
    thanks for the update…again! he he
    -miss

  468. wingman says:

    [quote comment="334938"][quote comment="334870"][quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]Wingman:

    “I’m more about the theory that Jacob was one of the time-travelers trapped in the time-loop like anomaly that is created by “the incident”…Now he or the cabin is flashing all around in time and he is either manipulating “the others” (Telling them future events like the runway”

    It’s got to be either Jack or John. And John needs to kill him, per say, to help him from his time travel cabin cage. You know John’s not into killing with out a really good reason. And I don’t believe he feels Jacob is evil.[/quote]

    Just from a literary perspective it would make sense for it to be Jack (Main character = Main character), but these guys can pull the rug from under all of us if they choose…I hate to even predict stuff about this show because you can look like a fool pretty quickly, but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    _________________

    Totally with you on that one wingman!!!! I’ve thought that for a while! Yay![/quote]

    That wouldn’t work because Jacob has been there before 1977. Jack would have had to do that much further in the past. 1977.[/quote]

    ============================

    Sorry, doodle, but if Jack(Jacob) and or the Cabin are flashing or shifting thru time then he//it can seemingly have been in ANY TIME on the island (Just like the characters this season has shown us)…So it would work…

  469. Mal says:

    I would like very much to correct all the coarse correction theorists…

    it’s COURSE correct!! Please, I’m begging all of you… course correct your spelling.

  470. Mal says:

    I don’t mean to be snooty or rude to any of you. Otherwise, I very much enjoy all of your theories.

    I just want to put my name in for the “WHH is a fact” team. I don’t think that the past can be changed (or the future, for that matter). Daniel is a brilliant scientist, so I believe there is merit to his theory that humans are the variable. However, his declaration that the past can be changed leads to the events that shape the future… he plants ideas into the mind of Jack and Kate who will go on to do whatever they will do… and it has always been that way. That may not have necessarily been his Daniel’s plan, but that is the way it has always played out.

    That being said, let us not forget that Daniel is an unstable (yet loveable) genius with a golden heart, and that he dedicated a good deal of his research to trying to save his lover Theresa from her fatal time-travelling “illness”. So, his theory that the past can be changed might be the result of his idealistic, well-intentioned nature.

  471. steve says:

    [quote comment="334958"]I don’t mean to be snooty or rude to any of you. Otherwise, I very much enjoy all of your theories.

    I just want to put my name in for the “WHH is a fact” team. I don’t think that the past can be changed (or the future, for that matter). Daniel is a brilliant scientist, so I believe there is merit to his theory that humans are the variable. However, his declaration that the past can be changed leads to the events that shape the future… he plants ideas into the mind of Jack and Kate who will go on to do whatever they will do… and it has always been that way. That may not have necessarily been his Daniel’s plan, but that is the way it has always played out.

    That being said, let us not forget that Daniel is an unstable (yet loveable) genius with a golden heart, and that he dedicated a good deal of his research to trying to save his lover Theresa from her fatal time-travelling “illness”. So, his theory that the past can be changed might be the result of his idealistic, well-intentioned nature.[/quote]

    ______________________________________

    You bring up a good point about Daniel’s nature and his possible need to correct the guilt he has. My dilemma with the WHH theory is that it depends on the point of view of the individual to whom the events occur. It is convenient to look back and say that something always happened that way. If we can a glimpse of an event that has already occured, given a conclusion we have already experienced, and the outcome changes from our previous experience, then we will know.

    I think Ben has had this happen to him when his daughter is killed.
    Eloise and Charles have this happen to them when Desmond is shot.

    Maybe this will be answered tonight.

  472. Ra says:

    i was watchin late night with Jimmy Fallon last night and hurley was on it talking about the guitar case…anyone else see it…i like how that wasnt forgoten about and may be explained tonight…Jack being jacob really does fit..i like that theory alot…has jack ever heard of jacob?..has there been a scene that he informs jack in previous seasons… or talks about jacob around jack?…

  473. steve says:

    I wanted to post this theory here because I wrote the following in support of a comment by a user “vacc” on another blog.

    Posted by: vacc
    I think that if Faraday’s plan actually works and 815 doesn’t crash on the Island, it was actually destined to crash into the ocean – winding up in almost exactly the same location as the plane Charles Widmore planted. This may explain Faraday’s emotional reaction upon seeing news of the plane’s recovery.

    Perhaps the Losties discover this fact in the moments before Jack gets the chance to showcase his new bomb detonation skills..
    ___________________________________

    I really think is a viable outcome. I Had put this idea in a theory document I keep. This conclusion is based on the idea that Desmond is outside the rules and can change events. Desmond causes Flight 815 to crash on the island, and since the plane was meant to crash into the ocean, all those survivors are factors that are not intended to be around. The reason the O6 must all return,is that they all need to get LOST on the island so that they are not variables in the equation. This is why Eloise says that they all must go back or God help us all.

    Remember Aaron is still a variable. He was never to be born, and he is in the real world equation.

    The only downsides to this are that all of them should be dead, and the events on the island may have no consequence in the outside world

  474. Ra says:

    I like the reasoning behind Daniel crying when he sees the crash is because his older time travelling self is dead…so his consciousness shot over into his younger off island body..this is why he is having such brain problems with memory and emotion…he needed a constant…like des

  475. Rita says:

    [quote comment="334967"]I wanted to post this theory here because I wrote the following in support of a comment by a user “vacc” on another blog.

    Posted by: vacc
    I think that if Faraday’s plan actually works and 815 doesn’t crash on the Island, it was actually destined to crash into the ocean – winding up in almost exactly the same location as the plane Charles Widmore planted. This may explain Faraday’s emotional reaction upon seeing news of the plane’s recovery.

    Perhaps the Losties discover this fact in the moments before Jack gets the chance to showcase his new bomb detonation skills..
    ___________________________________

    I really think is a viable outcome. I Had put this idea in a theory document I keep. This conclusion is based on the idea that Desmond is outside the rules and can change events. Desmond causes Flight 815 to crash on the island, and since the plane was meant to crash into the ocean, all those survivors are factors that are not intended to be around. The reason the O6 must all return,is that they all need to get LOST on the island so that they are not variables in the equation. This is why Eloise says that they all must go back or God help us all.

    Remember Aaron is still a variable. He was never to be born, and he is in the real world equation.

    The only downsides to this are that all of them should be dead, and the events on the island may have no consequence in the outside world[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I like where you are going with this. Interesting new twist! I guess we MAY find out tonight!

  476. Jay says:

    [quote comment="334907"][quote comment="334869"][quote comment="334846"]
    [/quote]
    … but Jack doing something that starts “The Incident” and gets trapped in the time-loop because he’s @ ground zero, just makes a certain kind of sense to me…[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    I actually kind of like this idea. This would allow John to “kill Jacob” as a concept, rather than to literally kill him – by “freeing” Jack, or whomever from his “time entrapment” (and thus killing the concept of Jacob as they “knew” him).[/quote]
    **
    Gives additional meaning into the scene in the cabin where Locke meets Jacob and Jacob says “help me”: he’s stuck in time from the incident.

  477. steve says:

    [quote comment="334973"]I like the reasoning behind Daniel crying when he sees the crash is because his older time travelling self is dead…so his consciousness shot over into his younger off island body..this is why he is having such brain problems with memory and emotion…he needed a constant…like des[/quote]

    ________________________________________

    Exactly!!!

  478. steve says:

    I was just thinking about poor Teresa. If Widmore knows that Daniel will be fixed when goes to the island, why didn’t he put Teresa on the boat as well?

  479. Mal says:

    [quote comment="334975"][quote comment="334967"]I wanted to post this theory here because I wrote the following in support of a comment by a user “vacc” on another blog.

    Posted by: vacc
    I think that if Faraday’s plan actually works and 815 doesn’t crash on the Island, it was actually destined to crash into the ocean – winding up in almost exactly the same location as the plane Charles Widmore planted. This may explain Faraday’s emotional reaction upon seeing news of the plane’s recovery.

    Perhaps the Losties discover this fact in the moments before Jack gets the chance to showcase his new bomb detonation skills..
    ___________________________________

    I really think is a viable outcome. I Had put this idea in a theory document I keep. This conclusion is based on the idea that Desmond is outside the rules and can change events. Desmond causes Flight 815 to crash on the island, and since the plane was meant to crash into the ocean, all those survivors are factors that are not intended to be around. The reason the O6 must all return,is that they all need to get LOST on the island so that they are not variables in the equation. This is why Eloise says that they all must go back or God help us all.

    Remember Aaron is still a variable. He was never to be born, and he is in the real world equation.

    The only downsides to this are that all of them should be dead, and the events on the island may have no consequence in the outside world[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I like where you are going with this. Interesting new twist! I guess we MAY find out tonight![/quote]

    It’s an interesting theory, but the plane wasn’t necessarily heading on a crash course. The plane was pulled to the island because of the magnetic energyof the Swan Station… Otherwise, the plane would have flown safely over the Pacific to LA.

  480. Mrs. B says:

    Come on!! Post the recap of tonight’s finale episode!!! You’re driving me crrrrrraaaazzzzyyyy!!
    :)

  481. Mal says:

    [quote comment="334973"]I like the reasoning behind Daniel crying when he sees the crash is because his older time travelling self is dead…so his consciousness shot over into his younger off island body..this is why he is having such brain problems with memory and emotion…he needed a constant…like des[/quote]

    I had read an earlier post in which someone speculated that when Daniel received the journal from his mother, the book was already filled in. Meaning, his mother found his journal in 1977 after Daniel died and kept it until he was in Oxford, still filled in. Which is why Daniel kept consulting his notebook and always seemed surprised to find what was written in the pages… For example, when Daniel reads the passage that says “Desmond Hume is my constant”, he seems shocked to find this written there, or, he had already seen it written there, but did not know who Desmond Hume is until they meet in Oxford.

    I think that is a very viable theory… it raises the question of, if he received it full, when did he ever write in it? But then again, WHH.

  482. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335007"][quote comment="334973"]I like the reasoning behind Daniel crying when he sees the crash is because his older time travelling self is dead…so his consciousness shot over into his younger off island body..this is why he is having such brain problems with memory and emotion…he needed a constant…like des[/quote]

    I had read an earlier post in which someone speculated that when Daniel received the journal from his mother, the book was already filled in. Meaning, his mother found his journal in 1977 after Daniel died and kept it until he was in Oxford, still filled in. Which is why Daniel kept consulting his notebook and always seemed surprised to find what was written in the pages… For example, when Daniel reads the passage that says “Desmond Hume is my constant”, he seems shocked to find this written there, or, he had already seen it written there, but did not know who Desmond Hume is until they meet in Oxford.

    I think that is a very viable theory… it raises the question of, if he received it full, when did he ever write in it? But then again, WHH.[/quote]
    ___________________

    Totally…also to to add to that, I don’t think we ever saw Daniel actually write it in…only reference it!

  483. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="334967"]I wanted to post this theory here because I wrote the following in support of a comment by a user “vacc” on another blog.

    Posted by: vacc
    I think that if Faraday’s plan actually works and 815 doesn’t crash on the Island, it was actually destined to crash into the ocean – winding up in almost exactly the same location as the plane Charles Widmore planted. This may explain Faraday’s emotional reaction upon seeing news of the plane’s recovery.

    Perhaps the Losties discover this fact in the moments before Jack gets the chance to showcase his new bomb detonation skills..
    ___________________________________

    I really think is a viable outcome. I Had put this idea in a theory document I keep. This conclusion is based on the idea that Desmond is outside the rules and can change events. Desmond causes Flight 815 to crash on the island, and since the plane was meant to crash into the ocean, all those survivors are factors that are not intended to be around. The reason the O6 must all return,is that they all need to get LOST on the island so that they are not variables in the equation. This is why Eloise says that they all must go back or God help us all.

    Remember Aaron is still a variable. He was never to be born, and he is in the real world equation.

    The only downsides to this are that all of them should be dead, and the events on the island may have no consequence in the outside world[/quote]

    This idea is certainly viable and much less aggravating than the “they land in LA” possibility.

    What if, when the plane crashes “about where Widmore put it” and they DON’T all die? Maybe Widmore put the fake plane there to create the reality that was SUPPOSED to happen. Maybe those on “the list” (which list, I do not know) were the only ones who were supposed to survive?

    Dunno. But it opens a much better door for me to go through than the idea that the plane lands safely in LA!

    : ) P

  484. jaime says:

    The new episode page is up

  485. steve says:

    [quote comment="335010"][quote comment="335007"][quote comment="334973"]I like the reasoning behind Daniel crying when he sees the crash is because his older time travelling self is dead…so his consciousness shot over into his younger off island body..this is why he is having such brain problems with memory and emotion…he needed a constant…like des[/quote]

    I had read an earlier post in which someone speculated that when Daniel received the journal from his mother, the book was already filled in. Meaning, his mother found his journal in 1977 after Daniel died and kept it until he was in Oxford, still filled in. Which is why Daniel kept consulting his notebook and always seemed surprised to find what was written in the pages… For example, when Daniel reads the passage that says “Desmond Hume is my constant”, he seems shocked to find this written there, or, he had already seen it written there, but did not know who Desmond Hume is until they meet in Oxford.

    I think that is a very viable theory… it raises the question of, if he received it full, when did he ever write in it? But then again, WHH.[/quote]
    ___________________

    Totally…also to to add to that, I don’t think we ever saw Daniel actually write it in…only reference it![/quote]
    ____________________________

    The journal given to Daniel on graduation day appears brand new with tight pages that have never been opened. I believe Daniel does fill in the pages over the course of his research. I don’t think was surprised to the entry about Desmond in the journal, as much as he was reacting to the vindication that his idea actually worked. IMO Daniel changed his own past by sending Desmond to Oxford and giving himself a constant in both time periods. This also why he knows he can send Desmond to find his mother.

  486. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335020"][quote comment="334967"]I wanted to post this theory here because I wrote the following in support of a comment by a user “vacc” on another blog.

    Posted by: vacc
    I think that if Faraday’s plan actually works and 815 doesn’t crash on the Island, it was actually destined to crash into the ocean – winding up in almost exactly the same location as the plane Charles Widmore planted. This may explain Faraday’s emotional reaction upon seeing news of the plane’s recovery.

    Perhaps the Losties discover this fact in the moments before Jack gets the chance to showcase his new bomb detonation skills..
    ___________________________________

    I really think is a viable outcome. I Had put this idea in a theory document I keep. This conclusion is based on the idea that Desmond is outside the rules and can change events. Desmond causes Flight 815 to crash on the island, and since the plane was meant to crash into the ocean, all those survivors are factors that are not intended to be around. The reason the O6 must all return,is that they all need to get LOST on the island so that they are not variables in the equation. This is why Eloise says that they all must go back or God help us all.

    Remember Aaron is still a variable. He was never to be born, and he is in the real world equation.

    The only downsides to this are that all of them should be dead, and the events on the island may have no consequence in the outside world[/quote]

    This idea is certainly viable and much less aggravating than the “they land in LA” possibility.

    What if, when the plane crashes “about where Widmore put it” and they DON’T all die? Maybe Widmore put the fake plane there to create the reality that was SUPPOSED to happen. Maybe those on “the list” (which list, I do not know) were the only ones who were supposed to survive?

    Dunno. But it opens a much better door for me to go through than the idea that the plane lands safely in LA!

    : ) P[/quote]

    Hmmm… maybe it is viable, I dunno. I just don’t understand why the plane would crash if it never encountered interference from the Swan Station.

    But, you’re right about the ending. The idea that the series ends with them landing in LA is very engraging.

  487. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335038"]
    Hmmm… maybe it is viable, I dunno. I just don’t understand why the plane would crash if it never encountered interference from the Swan Station.

    But, you’re right about the ending. The idea that the series ends with them landing in LA is very engraging.[/quote]

    The plane lost radio signal and was a thousand miles off course before it crashed. The Swan Station did not have to be the interference that caused the radio to go out.

    PILOT: Six hours in, our radio went out; no one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji. By the time we hit turbulence, we were a thousand miles off course. They’re looking for us in the wrong place.

    : ) P

  488. Cleo McCoy says:

    [quote comment="334296"]Has anyone heard the theory about John locke and Sawyer being the same person? because I have but I’ve never heard the evidence to back it up . So i have done some”research” to see if it plausable and its very plausable.

    1)Sawyer is left orphaned after his father does a murder sucide Locke is shown living in an ophanage.

    2)Sawyer was born in 1969 if he leaves the island in 1977 now he would leave at the age of 35 and if goes off island that means theres going to be another him thats 8 years old (the age he was when his father died and killed his mother), so if sawyer lives off island till 2004 (the time of oceanic 815) he would be 62 but locke is only 48 on that flight but he looks 62 to me idk this Sawyer rule also Applies to juliete but i dont know to much about her band i dont know her real age

    So i believe this is the reason sawyer changed his name to LaFlar

    IDk … but let me know what you thnk all i know is1977 is the year sawyers life turns into a nighmare[/quote]

  489. Cleo McCoy says:

    I have been saying for weeks that Sawyer is Locke! I completely agree with you! Last week when Locke saw himself in the jungle confirmed it for me. That proves that a person can exist at the same time as themselves at a different age- well, at least in the show they can :) Can’t wait to see what happens tonight!

  490. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335044"][quote comment="335038"]
    Hmmm… maybe it is viable, I dunno. I just don’t understand why the plane would crash if it never encountered interference from the Swan Station.

    But, you’re right about the ending. The idea that the series ends with them landing in LA is very engraging.[/quote]

    The plane lost radio signal and was a thousand miles off course before it crashed. The Swan Station did not have to be the interference that caused the radio to go out.

    PILOT: Six hours in, our radio went out; no one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji. By the time we hit turbulence, we were a thousand miles off course. They’re looking for us in the wrong place.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ahhhhh…. good show!

  491. Shadow says:

    Does anyone know if there’s something wrong with “The Incident” thread. Its stuck on 311 comments since last night, the last comment is not fully visible on the screen and the comment box at the bottom I can’t scroll to. HELP! I’m having withdrawals.

  492. John Rohsenow says:

    This two hour season (but NOT SERIES!) finale, starts off with an ambiguous
    fair-haired male staying up all night weaving on an ancient loom in his
    simple monk like lair under an ancient Egyptian/Babylonian? statue on the
    mysterious Island. As day breaks, he catches a fish (an old Christian symbol),
    guts,cuts, and cooks it on the beach. After breakfast he is joined by a somewhat
    more worn looking salt and pepper dark-haired man, who, when offered some
    of the fish, says, “No thanks, I already ate.”
    There ensues a conversation, initially focused on a old fashioned sailing ship
    on their horizon, which the second man claims that the first has drawn to the
    Island. [We can assume that this ship is the slave ship, the Black Rock,
    which the later castaways find years later wrecked far inland, full of decaying
    dynamite.] As they discuss how the people on the ship will fare on the island,
    the darker second man asserts that it will always end the same way in conflict,
    corruption, and death. The blonde replies that that is not the end, but rather that
    until the final END, it is only “progress.”
    Rather abruptly the darker one states that he would like to kill the fair-haired
    one,which the first one calmly affirms to be true, and notes that maybe the dark
    man can “find a loophole” which will allow him to do just that. Then the dark man
    rises and leaves.
    In addition to the action plot taking place in 1977 with Jack, Kate, Sawyer,
    Juliet, Sayid, Jin, Hurley, and the Chinese-American Miles trying to blow up the
    Island. AND the second action plot taking place in 2007, with Richard Alpert
    leading John Locke, Ben, Sun, Lapides the airline pilot, and the some of the
    other “Hostiles” to meet the mysterious Jacob, almost all of the flashbacks during
    this two hour season finale depict the first light haired man (Jacob), having
    visited all of the main characters at various crucial points in their lives as a complete
    stranger, and interacting with them briefly {e.g., Jacob was there when John Locke
    (presumably) threw himself off a roof and crippled himself from the waist down, as
    Locke was in the initial episodes until his miraculous recovery after he landed on the
    Island.]
    Thus when Alpert finally leads them to the what remains of the ancient statue and
    admits Locke (and Ben) to go in to see Jacob within it, we are not surprised to see
    that Jacob is in fact the light haired man introduced at the beginning of this two-hour
    episode. Jacob makes a comment to Locke to the effect that “I see you have found
    your loophole.” Locke has extracted a promise from Ben that Ben will kill Jacob, in
    revenge over the death of Ben’s adopted daughter Alex, as well as what Ben perceives
    as Jacob’s ignoring him during his 35 years of faithful service to him on the Island.
    Jacob tells Ben evenly that whatever Locke has told him, he still has a choice
    (free will) as to whether to act or not. Ben then lists his grievances, and complains
    that he was never permitted to see Jacob during all his years on the Island, whereas
    he says that Locke was immediately taken to meet Jacob, “like Moses,” as soon as
    Locke requested it of Alpert. Ben concludes, “What about me?”, to which Jacob replies
    in a very neutral tone (into which one may or may not read indifference), “What about
    you?” which infuriates Ben and causes him to stab Jacob to death.
    [In the meantime, "back" in 2007, intercut scenes outside reveal that the Russian woman whom Jacob had recruited from a Russian hospital to help him arrest Sayid and force him to come back to the Island, is outside, showing Alpert and the others that in fact they have the dead body of the (real?) John Locke right there with them, having retrieved it
    from the recently crashed plane. So we are forced to wonder as they do, if the real
    John Locke is dead and outside the statue, then WHO is the John Locke who is inside
    with Ben, killing Jacob????? This, in 2007, is a much a cliff hanger as is the final scene
    of the other action plot, when Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and especially Juliet back in 1977
    detonate a (small) hydrogen bomb (sic) at the site of the future Swan Station/hatch,
    where Desmond's failure to reset the computer 27 years later had caused Oceanic flight
    806 to crash on the Island, and set the original series plot in motion.]
    Analysis:
    The opening sequence of the light haired Jacob and the unnamed darker man talking
    at the statue, and the constant flashbacks throughout the two hours of Jacob in effect
    visiting all the the main characters in this drama, many of them when they were children,
    concluding with the murder of Jacob beneath the ancient statue at the instigation of (what
    appears to be) a resurrected John Locke clearly RE-frames the entire plot of the series
    as a sort of contest between the fair haired Jacob (in his human incarnation) and an
    opposing force. IF, as we are led to ask by having the late John Locke’s body rudely
    dumped out in front of our eyes in the final scenes, the real John Locke is in fact dead,
    then WHO is the “John Locke” who has persuaded Ben to kill Jacob, and why was Jacob
    so ready to leave it up to Ben to decide whether or not to kill him, explicitly giving Ben the option of exercising his free will? Given the “set up” of the conflict in the opening scenes between Jacob and the dark haired man, who does not appear again during the entire
    two hours, AND given that we know that many of the characters have been visited or
    motivated by other dead figures from their pasts (e.g, Jack’s deceased father, Dr
    Christian Shepard (sic), appearing (sometimes along with his daughter Claire) to Locke
    and many others, but telling Locke that he could not help him to turn the Wheel of Time
    beneath the Orchid Station), then it seems obvious that the “John Locke” inside the statue
    who has persuaded Ben to kill Jacob is in fact the dark haired man who (as Jacob notes)
    has “found his loophole” and found a way to accomplish the desire which he originally
    expressed in the show’s opening scene: to find a loophole which would allow him to kill
    Jacob and realize his pessimistic view of the world.
    The names and other Christian symbolism throughout the series all seem to point
    to a restatement of the eternal struggle between Light and Dark, Good and Evil, God and Satan, with a Paradise Lost type emphasis on Man’s CHOICE to choose one or the other
    through his Free Will. (It is also interesting that the Island (the show is filmed in Hawaii)
    is reminiscent of the Garden of Eden, and fact it may turn out that is IS the actual
    Garden of Eden, constantly migrating through Time and Space from its original location
    in the Middle East, where the Time Travelers all seem to end up whenever they turn the
    Wheel of Time and escape from the magical Island.)
    We will probably have to wait until next January or February, 2010 to see the final
    (six?) episodes and the final denouement. But I wonder if by visiting all the principal
    characters at crucial points in their earlier lives, whether Jacob has “set them up” to
    come to the Island (first via the first plane crash of Oceanic 806), just as he apparently
    lured the slave ship Black Rock to the Island years before, and then again later by their choosing to return to the Island with Jack (via the second plane crash in 2007) to
    enable them to exercise THEIR Free Will as well, and to make choices which might
    offset the evil influences of his Dark haired opponent, and save the Island (Paradise
    on Earth?) once more, thus allowing one more act of that “progress” which he stated
    in the opening scenes was another step toward the final “end,” presumably the End
    of Days/Time predicted in the Book of Revelations. This resolution calls to mind the end
    of the similarly themed film starring Al Pacino (Devil’s Advocate?) where -having been
    defeated in his quest to corrupt the young lawyer played by Keanu Reeves,- Satan
    (wonderfully played by Pacino) turns back Time, and starts his attempt all over again.

  493. Kratom says:

    I love lost… nothing better on TV today ! Bring on season 10… thats what I say !

  494. Richard says:

    original sountracks on /http://antoniomaxximus.blogspot.com/

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