The Incident

lost_cast_photo_season_5.jpg

Tonight is the Season 5 two-hour finale, and we can fully expect huge things to happen. What answers are we going to get? I don’t know and have intentionally avoided as much Lost information as possible this week to avoid even the smallest chance to be spoiled. In the spirit of that, I will not attempt to speculate on what’s going to happen other than posting the official ABC episode description below.

Spoiler Warning

ABC’s Official Show Description:

Jack’s decision to set things right on the island is met with some strong resistance by those close to him, and Locke assigns Ben a difficult task.

The Incident Episode Promo 1

The Incident Episode Promo 2

Sorry, no sneak peeks. I can’t watch them. You get 2 promos instead.

About these ads
This entry was posted in Lost. Bookmark the permalink.

687 Responses to The Incident

  1. Mal says:

    Oh boy oh boy!!

    It’s my birthday today too! Best birthday ever.

  2. PJSander says:

    H A P P Y
    B I R T H D A Y
    M A L !

    H A P P Y
    L O S T
    D A Y
    E V E R Y O N E !

    : ) P

  3. steve says:

    Happy Birthday Mal!!!

  4. Mal says:

    Thanks!

    So, Kate definitely did not get on the sub so that she could return to the real world. She got on there to find someone to help her stop Jack from doing whatever it is that he is doing… And we all know that Kate can be very stubborn about that sort of thing.

  5. Jason says:

    [quote comment="335035"]Thanks!

    So, Kate definitely did not get on the sub so that she could return to the real world. She got on there to find someone to help her stop Jack from doing whatever it is that he is doing… And we all know that Kate can be very stubborn about that sort of thing.[/quote]
    _____________________________________________
    Maybe they will have to swim back to the island and Kate will drown. That’s the “major” character who will be killed. That’s probably wishful thinking though. Honestly, I feel like Sayid will die tonight somehow.

  6. lola says:

    why does everyone seem to feel another character is going to die?

  7. Miss.Awesome-cherry says:

    Hip-Hip Hoorayyy!!!! It’s Lost Night I cannot wait im going to watch all my recordings of lost leading up to 2day….Unfortunatly after to night i have to get a real life hmm wonder what im going to to do post lost?lol

    I cannot wait until Jacon is revealed ; I still cant choose between Desmond and Jack i could put money on it that he would be one of them IDK i just cant wait ….Umm could someone tell me whats the point of the recap show didnt we have one like 2 weeks ago they should show 3 part of the incident instead idk I just Cannot waittt!!!!!!!!

    last season they should totally have a lost ball.Im an event planner in NYC and i think im going to totally hook that up for last season

  8. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335053"]why does everyone seem to feel another character is going to die?[/quote]

    A couple of weeks ago, it was “leaked” that one major and one not-so-major character were going to die this season.

    Personally, I prefer to be surprised, so I choose to believe that the “leak” was a publicity stunt!

    : ) P

  9. jaime says:

    Alright all…..PLEASE no thoeries/idead/speculation based off of promos, spoliers etc. This is the finale and I want to be thouroughly surprised.

    So excited. I guess the fiest hour is going to be hosted by D&C.

  10. wingman says:

    LMAO, you guys could’ve took more liberties with this week’s episode photo methinks…Guess you played it safe…Anyways I just read this article in the New York Times by Gina Bellafanta in which she shared her disappointment of what the final verdict in LOST may be (In an article prepping for tonight’s finale)…I think she’s kind of an idiot to think the show would stay in it’s mode of characterizations and broader themes when it only had 36 eps left and had to eventually TELL THE VIEWERS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, but I’ll leave you to your own opinions…I was thinking of inundating her e-mail with a “You don’t understand jack or Jack” response, but I’ll let the tide here let me know if I should waste my time or not….

    Here’s the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/arts/television/13lost.html?ref=arts

  11. The Kath says:

    I think the guitar case Hurley is carrying significance has something to do with invoking the presence of Charlie (physical, spiritual or otherwise.) Hurley is able to talk to/see Charlie while at the mental institution. Doesn’t Des talk to Charlie on the street while Charlie plays the guitar for money with an open guitar case? Charlie also has a sticker on his guitar in that episode that says “I was here moments ago”…can’t remember if Des tosses anything into the open guitar case or not.

  12. Mal says:

    I know this is a long-shot… but there seems to be something similar between Dr. Chang and Jacob… I know this does not make sense and is very unlikely to be true… but there is something intangible that leads me to connect Dr. Chang and Jacob. Maybe it’s because they both seem helpless… Dr. Chang is the “leader” of the Dharma Initiative but has very little real authority, and Jacob seems to be held captive (so some would believe. that is what I believe anyway).

    I know it’s way off, but maybe Dr. Chang gets caught on the wrong end of one of his scientific experiments, gets trapped in some kind of alternate dimension, and then gets captured by Ben. Having captured the leader of the DI, Ben instantly becomes the leader…

    Fun to speculate about, I suppose.

  13. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335058"]I think the guitar case Hurley is carrying significance has something to do with invoking the presence of Charlie (physical, spiritual or otherwise.) Hurley is able to talk to/see Charlie while at the mental institution. Doesn’t Des talk to Charlie on the street while Charlie plays the guitar for money with an open guitar case? Charlie also has a sticker on his guitar in that episode that says “I was here moments ago”…can’t remember if Des tosses anything into the open guitar case or not.[/quote]

    Oooh… good thinking. I hope we see what that’s all about tonight… maybe Charlie visited him again and instructed Hurley to bring the case back to the island.

  14. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335054"]Hip-Hip Hoorayyy!!!! It’s Lost Night I cannot wait im going to watch all my recordings of lost leading up to 2day….Unfortunatly after to night i have to get a real life hmm wonder what im going to to do post lost?lol

    I cannot wait until Jacon is revealed ; I still cant choose between Desmond and Jack i could put money on it that he would be one of them IDK i just cant wait ….Umm could someone tell me whats the point of the recap show didnt we have one like 2 weeks ago they should show 3 part of the incident instead idk I just Cannot waittt!!!!!!!!

    last season they should totally have a lost ball.Im an event planner in NYC and i think im going to totally hook that up for last season[/quote]

    Lostblog.net participants get free tickets…

  15. Mr. $tuart says:

    If Hurley dies, will he be able to play chess with himself?

  16. ericfay81 says:

    This show has made my head explode on many occasions and tonight should be no different! I could probably come up with a list of 50 questions that I would want answered, and it kills me knowing that the writers could probably answer all of them. It’s like wondering what “the meaning of life” is… =)

  17. Miss.Awesome-cherry says:

    [quote comment="335074"]This show has made my head explode on many occasions and tonight should be no different! I could probably come up with a list of 50 questions that I would want answered, and it kills me knowing that the writers could probably answer all of them. It’s like wondering what “the meaning of life” is… =)[/quote]
    _____________________________________________-
    YeaH…I still just want to know what the smoke monster is they were never clear on that but What I RRRRRRRREEEEAAAALLLYYY want to know is “Who the heck is jacob? ummm and I just want an awesome episode that would have me theorizing all summer long

  18. pete says:

    well here we go,i think that we get to see why they cant carry babies,and why ben is so obsessed with finding the cure. he seems to have a real soft spot in his heart for kids (alex,and he couldent kill penny when he saw her kid)so i bet he feels responsible for the whole thing and is desperatly trying to fix it.

  19. Rita says:

    Happy Birthday Mal!
    OK, almost there!! I can’t wait!!! No doubt we will get SOMETHING tonight that we can all chew on all summer – maybe not answers per se, (maybe) but something to WOW us for the months to come. I hope we get to see the temple, Rose and Bernard (and Vincent!), the smoke monster, and Jacob. THREE WHOLE HOURS OF LOST TONIGHT!!!!

  20. Mal says:

    I hope they show us someone who has four toes on his/her left foot. Maybe Richard. Maybe Jacob.

  21. Jake says:

    OMG!!! I am so psyched for the Lost season Finale tonight!!! I can’t wait. Those clips are awesome! I need to know what happens now!! Check out some of these theories I found.. http://blogs.msg.com/themonitor/2009/05/13/lost-thoughts-are-you-ready-for-the-season-finale/

  22. ericfay81 says:

    I can’t help but think that Jacob is Locke, but could Jacob be a completely new character? What is the deal with Jack’s dad and Claire? Could it be that WHH still holds true in that the bomb was already blown up when the Oceanic flight crashed? Wouldn’t NOT blowing up the bomb be “changing history?”

  23. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335081"]I hope they show us someone who has four toes on his/her left foot. Maybe Richard. Maybe Jacob.[/quote]
    *******************************************

    Happy B-day……..I think we will get a glimpse of RA’s foot tonight. Oh look, he only has 4 toes hmmmmmmm

  24. wingman says:

    You know I used to think Locke was Jacob, but I just thought it was too obvious of a choice…I mean I’ll be like “OK” if it’s him, but I’ll be astonished if it was someone else like Desmond…As for Jack = Jacob I think I’ve popularized that theory so much that I’m starting to doubt it myself, lol…It would be one thing if going into the finale that it seemed impossible or totally unexpected.. But the way the events are setting up it appears so logical that it might be Jack it’s scaring me…The circumstances of jack having to do whatever he does to prevent or create “The Incident” is more than I could’ve asked for concerning my theory, so I’m really gonna be floored if it isn’t him, but not so much if it’s Locke because he seemed such the obvious choice from early on…I mean 5 mins after the first Jacob episode damn near everyone was saying he was Locke and he looked like Locke (I remember the side by side comparisons and stuff), so for it to be Locke would be just be rather expected and not as flooring (unless it is revealed absolutely brilliantly)…

  25. poopy pants says:

    Do you think Hurley will use the “Gabriel Method” as advertised on this site?
    just wondering.

  26. The Kath says:

    I am thinking that the Oceanic six, or at least Kate will never get back to present day -off the island. At Kate’s court sentencing she got probation and the restriction of never leaving the state of CA. Well she got on the flight back to the island…

    Plus she gave up Aaron, how would she ever explain her no-motherhood status.

    Maybe all that is just her plan of never going back to the real world and staying on the island, maybe with Sawyer. Her real-world life of Jack, motherhood and daughter hood never worked out.

  27. wingman says:

    Gotta post this one more time because no one responded to me and I probably won’t post again until Sunday when I’m sure they’ll be like 500 posts (Well I’ll post until about 9pm Eastern today)…Kinda long, so don’t hate me guys…If I don’t post again enjoy the finale!!! Jack = Jacob!!^^

    The universes’ response to the theory of time travel is coarse correction…Time travel is just a theory, a theory that can happen mathematically, but once that theory becomes reality, ITS REALITY… and once it happens, once the first person steps into altered time, It’s always happened (From a 1 timeline perspective obviously)… After thinking about Kate and Jack’s conversation (about erasing everything they ever did with one another) from this ep and the last something kinda hit me…

    I’m starting to believe the island is merely the result of time travel and all these things that point to the island wanting this person or that person isn’t some conscious thought but merely the consequence of the island being the birthplace for time-travel (and all the people who are apart of that time-travel phenomenon are simply doomed to repeat it)….The equation for time travel occurred on the island (Don’t ask me exactly how as I think next ep will finally explain that, but perhaps because of it’s abundance of magnetism as it’s resource, couple that what “JUGHEAD’ might do to that energy, and countless years suppressing that resulting energy)…These variables are perhaps what created the perfect//imperfect ingredients for actual time travel… Once the time travel takes place then it starts a cyclical chain of events that gets Dharma to go there, the planes to crash, the people that live there, the people that are Summoned there… .The phenomenon of the island may be totally related to the island being an endless bed of time travel.. And once time travel occurs IT HAPPENED, it always happened and can never NOT HAPPEN!!! SO these events will always be present (The island phenomenon)…
    Now again, the universes’ reaction to the theory of time travel is coarse correction….I think this is where Locke’s “death” and the possible “deaths” of the other Losties comes into play (As Richard says they’ll all die)…

    I’m starting to think that the people who originally “flashed” (Orginal Jack? Original Locke?) or at one point do flash (Locke, Sawyer and Company, Ajira Losties); I think they officially become coarse correctors…Just like Time-Travel, coarse correction is an imperfect science…Under this scenario you can die yet also not be dead because the original you was a coarse correction (Taken out of a normal timeline to be a universe variable)…You have no choice but to be a coarse correction until you die! The Locke who comes back to the island is no longer a coarse correction, therefore he is alive!

    If the universe fails and whatever Jack is trying to do doesn’t stop the eventual cataclysmic event (whatever that really may be if it’s not “The Incident”), then he and Kate and Sawyer and company die…Therefore they can no longer be coarse corrections…The universe goes thru the loop again…So basically when you screw with time, the second you screw with time, you screw with the universe, and the universes’ response to it all is course correction, but just like the VARIABLES it took for the theory’ of time travel to become reality, it takes the same variables OF THE UNIVERSE to counteract it!!! The universe can get you there, but it’s the free-will (Like Daniel was explaining) that will create the imperfect ingredient that can coarse correct successfully…

    Hopefully someone can add or subtract from this, but I feel like I’m on to something here…I think LOST may be the first Time-Travel story that practically deals with Time-Travel creating the time-travel (The compass would be a prime example of this)…

  28. fitty says:

    Im extremely excited for 10 more cliff hangers so I can sit and ponder til the final season starts

  29. ericfay81 says:

    @wingman
    I don’t know if I understood any of that… but that does raise another question. How can they use a compass on an island with that much magnetic energy?

  30. Lost Horizon says:

    So, is tonight actually three hours of Lost with a 8pm re-cap and then a two hour episode that goes from 9-11pm EST?

  31. Rita says:

    [quote comment="335105"]So, is tonight actually three hours of Lost with a 8pm re-cap and then a two hour episode that goes from 9-11pm EST?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Yes! Can’t wait!!

  32. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="335105"]So, is tonight actually three hours of Lost with a 8pm re-cap and then a two hour episode that goes from 9-11pm EST?[/quote]
    *******************
    well PJ, I guess not everyone read the earlier posts from the last thread…ha ha…

    Tonight is a one hour recap (but suppose to help fill in gaps (not that there are any:0)
    followed by a two hour fianle! Can’t wait.
    -miss

  33. Lost Horizon says:

    Hey thanks…it’s been a busy week. I tried the ABC website which was totally not helpful…

  34. Mr. $tuart says:

    Michael Emerson is an amazing actor, but he’s a sucky narrator.

  35. Vaughn K says:

    So the only reason that Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley went back in time during the 316 crash is becuase they did not re create 815 exactly how it was. At least thats what D and C just said.

  36. Shadow says:

    OK, I totally didn’t read any posts, as it is only 5:30 here in Arizona. I can’t wait!
    OH BOY!!!!!!!!!!!By the time I finish watching though and can get on the blog, everyone will be in bed, so I’ll just be talking to myself!

  37. Ben says:

    I am freaking out because I’m afraid my ABC is going to be showing severe weather rather than LOST! I don’t know what to do. Is there anywhere I can watch it streaming online or will I have to wait til tomorrow to get it on iTunes?

  38. Rita says:

    I noticed that when Sawyer is sitting on the sub dock talking to Juliet in 1974, and says the sub will be back in 2 weeks so they can leave if they want to, there is a sub right there behind them – point being that they have more than one sub. Someone was speculating about that last thread, wondering why Juliet said that they couldn’t send Benboy off island after he had been shot – because the sub wouldn’t be back for a couple of weeks.

  39. Rita says:

    [quote comment="335116"]I noticed that when Sawyer is sitting on the sub dock talking to Juliet in 1974, and says the sub will be back in 2 weeks so they can leave if they want to, there is a sub right there behind them – point being that they have more than one sub. Someone was speculating about that last thread, wondering why Juliet said that they couldn’t send Benboy off island after he had been shot – because the sub wouldn’t be back for a couple of weeks.[/quote]
    Sorry, didn’t finish the thought – meant to add, that the Ann Arbor scientists came the next day (or two) on a sub, when Juliet said it wouldn’t be there for a couple of weeks. Hope that makes sense!

  40. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="335116"]I noticed that when Sawyer is sitting on the sub dock talking to Juliet in 1974, and says the sub will be back in 2 weeks so they can leave if they want to, there is a sub right there behind them – point being that they have more than one sub. Someone was speculating about that last thread, wondering why Juliet said that they couldn’t send Benboy off island after he had been shot – because the sub wouldn’t be back for a couple of weeks.[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    No I think there is only one sub cause when Sawyer first met Horace he said that the sub leaves first thing tomorrow morning and you are going to be on it but then he gets Horace to give them the two weeks until it gets back. Thats why it is there cause it doesnt leave until the morning.

  41. Vaughn K says:

    WWWWWHHHHHAAAATTTTT!

  42. Rita says:

    [quote comment="335118"][quote comment="335116"]I noticed that when Sawyer is sitting on the sub dock talking to Juliet in 1974, and says the sub will be back in 2 weeks so they can leave if they want to, there is a sub right there behind them – point being that they have more than one sub. Someone was speculating about that last thread, wondering why Juliet said that they couldn’t send Benboy off island after he had been shot – because the sub wouldn’t be back for a couple of weeks.[/quote]
    ________________________________________

    No I think there is only one sub cause when Sawyer first met Horace he said that the sub leaves first thing tomorrow morning and you are going to be on it but then he gets Horace to give them the two weeks until it gets back. Thats why it is there cause it doesnt leave until the morning.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    LOL you’re right! I guess I just had a brain blip. Thanks for setting me straight :)

  43. Rita says:

    It’s Anubis!! AND we found Jacob!!!!!!!!!!!!

  44. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335122"]It’s Anubis!! AND we found Jacob!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Glad to see Anubis…Whisperer theory hanging on….

  45. kindly says:

    For a second, I thought the back of Jacob’s head was

  46. Vaughn K says:

    Jacob is the coolest guy on this show now he is a BADASS thats all I got to say. Now the next question is who is the guy that was talking to him?

  47. zach says:

    i missed the first three minutes. What happened by the statue? PLEASE help.

  48. Locke is Jacob says:

    What did Jacob say to Locke?

  49. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="335132"]What did Jacob say to Locke?[/quote]
    ______________________________________

    He said, Everything is going to be ok. I am sorry this happened to you.

    P.S. You should probably change your name lol I dont think Locke is Jacob.

  50. DIana says:

    What’s in the box!! Uuuggghhh!!!!

  51. LostFan2234 says:

    I bet the season will with Ilana and gang meeting up with Jacob at the room by the statue that he was weaving in and them opening up the cargo box then black screen cut to Lost

  52. LostFan2234 says:

    will end**

  53. Courtney says:

    I missed it, how many toes did Jacob have?

  54. steve says:

    Not Anubis. Had head of Hippo not jackel

  55. Locke is Jacob says:

    Thanks Vaughn K! The name is a metaphor, you know.

  56. Vaughn K says:

    Just a joke lol

  57. Mr. $tuart says:

    “I changed my mind.” If that isn’t a typical female quote, I don’t know what is.

  58. Newmanium says:

    I that was Richard talkin to Jacob in the beginning

  59. Courtney says:

    Hmmm… I thought the head looked like a crocodile, not a hippo.

  60. Krista says:

    [quote comment="335143"]I that was Richard talkin to Jacob in the beginning[/quote]

    Not Richard, no eye make up :)

  61. LostFan2234 says:

    Yea that statue is definitely Sobek

    http://www.egyptartsite.com/sobek.html

  62. LostFan2234 says:

    Yea that statue is definitely Sobek

    http://www.egyptartsite.com/sobek.html

    The Ankh is in his right hand and he is holding that shaft in his left

  63. Hammer says:

    I told you guys Hugo wasn’t crazy!!!! Whisperers….

  64. Hammer says:

    Got feeling Locke is a goner.

  65. Rita says:

    [quote comment="335148"]Yea that statue is definitely Sobek

    http://www.egyptartsite.com/sobek.html

    The Ankh is in his right hand and he is holding that shaft in his left[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Yes, I think you are right!

  66. Vaughn K says:

    Yea I know I have a really bad feeling Locke or Jack is going to die for some reason and I am not going to enjoy it.

  67. Vaughn K says:

    I KNEW IT! Whatever Happened Happened and that is why it didnt blow up but I definately didnt see Juliet going although she really didnt have a point to the story anymore.

  68. Vaughn K says:

    ok maybe i was wrong lol

  69. Mr. $tuart says:

    Holy crap! 10,000 more questions.

  70. Toeknee says:

    Aw crap, after that ending we’re gonna have to debate for the next 8 months whether or not Juliet changed the future!

  71. Hammer says:

    Game changer…period.

  72. LostFreak says:

    Wow! So Jacob is a euphemism for God, and the Locke double is the Devil, and they’re commenting on the classic debate on whether God is evil, and how can God be all powerful while still allowing humans to have free will! I didn’t see the series going in that direction at all!

  73. Toeknee says:

    I was happy for PJ when they showed Charlie’s ring.

    Did anyone get the translation of what Richard said (in Latin) to Ilana yet?

    I really can’t stand the triangle/quadrangle stuff, but I thought the scene with Sawyer trying to hang on and Juliet letting go was really sad.

  74. Vaughn K says:

    Ok so…WOW

    1) I am assuming the guy we saw in the beginning with Jacob somehow took over Locke’s body so Locke is basically dead.

    2) I cant believe we finally meet Jacob who seems so awesome and chill and a good guy and none other than Ben kills him. I would have never seen Jacob just being able to get stabbed to death. You would think he would be more immortal? Lol

    3) I am sticking with my theory that the future is not changed but I still cant figure out how they get back to their time, maybe they never do.

    4) Sayid is dead. Probably

    5) I almost jumped out of my chair cause I thought Phil was going to kill Sawyer and that would have sucked. But Phil got his.

    BEST Season Finale ever!

  75. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335160"]I was happy for PJ when they showed Charlie’s ring.

    Did anyone get the translation of what Richard said (in Latin) to Ilana yet?

    I really can’t stand the triangle/quadrangle stuff, but I thought the scene with Sawyer trying to hang on and Juliet letting go was really sad.[/quote]

    Thanks, Toeknee, so was I! LOL

    The screen turned WHITE instead of BLACK at the end… do you think it was another time flash?!

    : ) P

  76. Hannah says:

    FINALLY!!!! lol livin in the west coast stinks! but it has come finally!

    believe me or not i had a feeling one of those two guys were jacob dont ask why i just had a feeling

  77. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335128"]i missed the first three minutes. What happened by the statue? PLEASE help.[/quote]
    Bummer for you man. I thought that was a really cool opening scene. Two characters we have never seen before, sitting on the island talking. Watching a ship in the ocean (Black Rock?). Turns out one of them is Jacob, and the other one is looking for a loophole so he can kill Jacob.

  78. Hammer says:

    A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.

  79. Mr. $tuart says:

    I said last week that Kate needed to get out of that jumpsuit and bye-golly she did. Those jeans MMM HOORAH! HIT IT!

  80. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335161"]2) I cant believe we finally meet Jacob who seems so awesome and chill and a good guy and none other than Ben kills him. I would have never seen Jacob just being able to get stabbed to death. You would think he would be more immortal? Lol

    4) Sayid is dead. Probably

    [/quote]

    Don’t count Sayid out yet – nor Juliet. If there is a time flash, then both could be fine.

    As for Jacob, I am not sure he IS dead. Who knows what he is capable of!

    : ) P

  81. Bobbi says:

    The opening scene really made things kinda obvious for me, at least for this episode. Jacob was wearing white, his ‘pal’ wearing black…on the beach.

    But then when Locke seemed to act out of character, AND when he said he was going to KILL Jacob…I KNEW he wasn’t really Locke, he was the guy in black from opening scene.

    Does anyone know what Richard’s answer to ‘what lies in the shadow of the statue’ mean? I’m guessing something like ‘he who knows all’….but it was too quick for me.

  82. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335161"]
    3) I am sticking with my theory that the future is not changed but I still cant figure out how they get back to their time, maybe they never do.
    [/quote]
    I’m with you on the future not changing, but I think we’ll be in the minority on that.

    I think they will get back to “the present”, because they almost certainly will have a Jin-Sun reunion.

  83. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="335166"][quote comment="335161"]2) I cant believe we finally meet Jacob who seems so awesome and chill and a good guy and none other than Ben kills him. I would have never seen Jacob just being able to get stabbed to death. You would think he would be more immortal? Lol

    4) Sayid is dead. Probably

    [/quote]

    Don’t count Sayid out yet – nor Juliet. If there is a time flash, then both could be fine.

    As for Jacob, I am not sure he IS dead. Who knows what he is capable of!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________________________

    Yea i mean Jacob might not be “dead” but he was stabbed and pushed in a fire lol (overkill?) so he better pull something out of his hat of tricks. I wonder what Jacob meant when he said they are coming, Ilana and co. or some third party?

  84. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Hmmm could be. I can’t remember my Hanso history – didn’t the original Hanso come to the island on the Black Rock? And I assumed that ship we saw in the opening scene was the Black Rock. So I wonder if Hanso hasn’t arrived on the island yet?

  85. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="335169"][quote comment="335161"]
    3) I am sticking with my theory that the future is not changed but I still cant figure out how they get back to their time, maybe they never do.
    [/quote]
    I’m with you on the future not changing, but I think we’ll be in the minority on that.

    I think they will get back to “the present”, because they almost certainly will have a Jin-Sun reunion.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________
    I agree that they didn’t change anything and that was always what the incident was. They will flash back to 2007.

  86. Vaughn K says:

    Is anyone else really disappointed that it turns out Locke is really still dead? Like when he was reincarnated it was awesome and Locke is like the coolest character on the show and now it turns out its not even Locke which kind of sucks. Maybe somehow the real Locke will still come back but i dont know.

    It was weird cause when they opened the crate and Frank looked in I thought to myself like I bet its a body…I was thinking something crazy like Widmore but not Locke at all.

    And I guess Rose and Bernard and Vincent are the only people left from the supporting cast. If they were doing a grid by grid search, how did they never find a huge shack? Seems weird. Sorry I am writing so much I just have a lot to say. There were so many questions answered or partially answered.

  87. Jimmy63 says:

    So does Jacob reincarnate himself into the real locke corpse then the Locke is Jacob theory could still be. Locke Vs. Locke death match coming in 2010?

  88. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335162"][quote comment="335160"]I was happy for PJ when they showed Charlie’s ring.

    Did anyone get the translation of what Richard said (in Latin) to Ilana yet?

    I really can’t stand the triangle/quadrangle stuff, but I thought the scene with Sawyer trying to hang on and Juliet letting go was really sad.[/quote]

    Thanks, Toeknee, so was I! LOL

    The screen turned WHITE instead of BLACK at the end… do you think it was another time flash?!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________________
    I have to say I was actually glad that Sun found Charlie’s ring. It always bothered me that it basically got left behind.

    My guess is that the white light at the end will represent a time flash, and will get them to 2007. I’d say there isn’t a whole lot more to say about the Dharma Initiative, but I may be wrong about that.

    Another thought I had about the white screen was that maybe they were trying to tell us that Juliet did change the future. I still think WHH but we’ll have to wait until next year to find out for sure.

  89. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Of course, the technically correct answer is Titus Welliver(that’s the actor’s name). He had some good roles on NYPD Blue and Deadwood.

  90. Cherry-Miss.Awesome says:

    Umm i believe we need a redemption episode like they did with 24 when their season gaps were long…
    The episode was exiciting and i could not wait till the season finale but, they did not really answer anything…

    our encounter with Rose and Benard is rather stange like they were lying about something.

    They gave Jacob a face and his time period on the island but they did not clarify what he is and how he is the “boss” of the island.

    I’m still confused (good confused) about what was the incident because it seem like the bomb solved the problem because were the hathch was it basiclly exploded and Radsinki died and he was supposed to kill himself in the hatch.

    So where’s Desmond ?and peenny

    And what was LOcke or who is locke i dont really know how to ask that question let alone answer it.

    Felt really bad for juliette I believe that Sawywer is ove Kate and he loved Juliette I never heard him Cry. I was ballin like i usally do on old lifetime movies

    I absolutely loved the scene when Sun found Charlies driveshaft ring that totally met something and Hurley has the guitar that im assuming belongs to him also. I was hoping to see him but yeah we didnt

    What was up with Jacob visits. he killed nadia well sort of this scene reminded me of another scene. I just cant remember.

    I think Walts dream is going to come true next season when he says he sees John Locke surronded by people who wanted to hurt him. I was hoping we would learn more about Walt but yeah we didnt.

    Let me know what you thnk…

  91. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335173"]Is anyone else really disappointed that it turns out Locke is really still dead? Like when he was reincarnated it was awesome and Locke is like the coolest character on the show and now it turns out its not even Locke which kind of sucks. Maybe somehow the real Locke will still come back but i dont know.

    It was weird cause when they opened the crate and Frank looked in I thought to myself like I bet its a body…I was thinking something crazy like Widmore but not Locke at all.
    [/quote]
    Yeah it did seem a little weird to think tha was not “really” Locke. But now I want to go back and rewatch the entire season to look for other clues that it’s not really him.

    And now that I think about Frank’s reaction to seeing what’s in the crate, it almost doesn’t make sense. If I recall correctly he said “terrific”. I would have expected him to be more like, “WTF?!” I mean, he did see the reincarnated Locke, right? So it seems like he should have been more shocked.

  92. LostGuru says:

    [quote comment="335168"]
    Does anyone know what Richard’s answer to ‘what lies in the shadow of the statue’ mean? I’m guessing something like ‘he who knows all’….but it was too quick for me.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    What Richard said was in Latin meaning: “He who will protect us.”

    Great season finale!

  93. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335180"]
    What was up with Jacob visits. he killed nadia well sort of this scene reminded me of another scene. I just cant remember.[/quote]

    Maybe he was SAVING Sayid, rather than killing Nadia.

    It reminds you, perhaps, of when Juliet’s ex-husband got hit by the bus?

    [quote comment="335170"]
    Yea i mean Jacob might not be “dead” but he was stabbed and pushed in a fire lol (overkill?) so he better pull something out of his hat of tricks. I wonder what Jacob meant when he said they are coming, Ilana and co. or some third party?[/quote]

    Jacob is a “god” who has been living on the island for over 150 years and you are telling me you don’t believe that he could survive being “killed?” At least accept that it is a possibility!

    : ) P

  94. slugdoc says:

    So, I missed the first 20 minutes, and was confused for the next 100.

    But anyway —
    Juliette -> Smoke monster? I know she isn’t but her “death” was a total smoke monster deja vu.

    Rattling chains, getting pulled inexorably down a hole, not dying — it is like exactly what was happening when the smoke monster did its thing.

    Or is that my imagination?

  95. Vaughn K says:

    If Jacob is good than Ben made a mistake but I was kind of on Ben’s side at the end where he gave that long speech. He followed everything Jacob said and then Jacob basically called him a piece of crap. But it all makes sense now. Whoever that guy is that took over Locke cant kill Jacob and the “loophole” he found was someone to kill Jacob for him (Ben). I just cant see Jacob being gone already.

  96. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    Keamy since he broke the rules and killed Alex.

    Widmore (post DHARMA since he wasn’t orig. DHARMA

    The Walt apparitions, Libby apparitions, Claire apparitions, etc., etc.

    Christian (post death).

    I believe all of this because of his comment “You have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here”.

  97. Ben says:

    I think this has all happened in 1977 before. A nuclear blast would explain the baby issues. Something tells me Ben knows whats going on, and he was supposed to kill Jacob. Its too hard to believe he lead without cause. The person working out of the cabin is the other guy. Maybe Ben has really been taking orders from him? Cant wait for next season.

  98. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="335187"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    Keamy since he broke the rules and killed Alex.[/quote]
    _______________________________________

    thats weird you said that cause when I first saw the scene all I kept thinking to myself was wow that guy really reminds me of Keamy

  99. LINS says:

    Fake Locke kicking Jacob into the fire reminded me of when real Locke talked about the island needing a sacrifice.

    So does this new Locke take over Jacob’s position now? How many other dead bodies has this guy used to get things done…I mean, he was with Ben at the Temple when Alex’s dead body appeared and chewed him out, maybe it’s possible that he was using Christian’s body and that’s why when real Locke went to Jacob’s cabin and Christian was there, he said that he could speak on behalf of Jacob? Maybe all these times we thought it was Smokey manifesting as a person, it was really crazy beach guy?

    I cried when Sun found Charlie’s ring, and when Juliette fell down the hole. Great episode, I can’t wait for the season to come out on DVD!!!

  100. Ben says:

    Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve

  101. Hammer says:

    A friend(PJ) from another blog gave me the Keamy idea…I just ran with it.

    Okay bedtime.

  102. G says:

    Always read the blogs but have never left a comment.

    What do you guys think about Christian Shepherd… meaning has he really been speaking on Jacob’s behalf all this time OR has Jacob’s enemy (man we see at the beginning) been using his body. Why would Christian tell Lupidus and Sun (if he was speaking on Jacob’s behalf) to wait in Ben’s daughter’s bedroom and wait there for Locke? I think the epsiode was title Dead is Dead when that happened. Could Jacob’s enemy have been using Christian’s body this whole time? Hopefully I’m making sense… I do in my head at least with what I’m trying to ask here.

    Now I understand why Richard felt there was something weird with Locke… with how he was acting.

  103. Mr. $tuart says:

    Okay, in the flashback to Juliet’s childhood, it looked an awful lot like it was taking place in the present time period. It certainly didn’t look like late 70s early 80s. The way the characters were dressed, their hair styles, the decor in the room. I just thought it was weird.

  104. Ben says:

    Loophole=come back as leader of the others.
    Jacob cant be dead, too important over the past 3 years. He knew something was going to happen which is why he asked ilana for help.
    Locke was never meant for anything. Jacob saved his life for a reason. Maybe Jacob dies so his spirit is released to fight his enemies?
    A war was supposed to be coming, and its finally here. Widmore must fit in here somehow. I love the black vs. white play here.

  105. Vaughn K says:

    I just remembered the conversation between Richard and Jack in the tunnels when Richard was questioning Jack about Locke and Jack said “Don’t give up on Locke.” or something of that sort. Maybe the writers were really talking to the viewers foreshadowing what would be uncovered and telling us that somehow Locke is going to come back. Just hoping.

    Holy crap and I just thought of something. When they were talking about Lapidus being a candidate I couldnt imagine what it would be for but now after the episode is over I am thinking it could be a human sacrifice to bring Jacob back maybe? The same thing beach man did to Locke.

  106. Mr. $tuart says:

    I can’t believe they wrote off a hot piece of tail like Shannon, but kept Rose. Oy vey! She brought out the bitchatude tonight again.

  107. Ben says:

    Great theory Vaughn. Does that mean Ben and Widmore were just players? There must be more in your mind.

  108. Hannah says:

    no shadow im right here with you in AZ…..that ending was like…..i dunno im speechless right now lol

  109. HalfHand says:

    Right after the first scene I thought to myself this reminds me of the Book of Job from the Bible…

    Job was a bet between God and the Devil. The Devil said yeah he worships you because he has a real nice life, but if stuff were not so nice then he would turn his back on you. God proceeds to screw up Job’s life and Job keeps on worshiping Him, God wins the bet.

    I had the exact same feeling on the final scene. Ben being Job, except this time the Devil (smoky) won the bet.

    However, this being Lost, I think this is all just too cut and dried. It seems they really went out of their way to show Jacob as good and Smoky as bad. Even going so far as to have them dressed in white and black respectively.

    Excellent season ending episode. Definately up there with “who’s in the coffin”

  110. Ronnie B. says:

    at the end i think jacob said”they are coming” when he was about to die. they are coming is meaning the losties are coming back(time flash) to present time becuase of juliet using the bomb?? There has to be a reason why jacob was apart of thier lives before this.

  111. Mr. $tuart says:

    Maybe Jacob really didn’t know who the hell Ben was.

  112. Amber says:

    I am a little confused on how Jacob was visiting everyone when they were kids and some later on in life. How did he know them? Did he always know they would come to the island?

  113. Dazedanlost says:

    What was the answer to the riddle in English?

  114. Jimmy63 says:

    Dead Locke has to come to life again to fulfill Walts vision of Locke on the beach in a suit surrounded by people who want to kill him.
    Locke was dead when he hit the ground after his father threw him out the window until Jacob touched him.Jacob knew this day would come, he has to have a plan otherwise why would he save Locke’s life after being thrown out of the building.
    Don’t give up on Locke or Jacob yet !

  115. Whatheheck says:

    Some of my mixed thoughts:

    1-Jacob represents the life; other guy (the bad Locke) represents the death.
    They just can’t fight each other but need humans that they can influence to interfere… like god and satan…?! The last scene with Jacob looked to me like the angel on one shoulder and the demon on the other.

    2-When Jacob says “they are coming” he’s talking about ilana and all the people (sawyer, jack, kate, Jin…) Jacob as set up to somehow come to this island. Jacob wants to prove the bad Locke he is right again: same sentence he pronunced at the beginning on the beach with the ship coming. What did he say again about the ship coming? “Same fight, just a little more technology”… well that’s the same thing now with guns and hydrogen bombs…

    3-I think Richard realized he made an error when ilana shown him real Locke being dead.

  116. Dazedanlost says:

    Is Richard Spanish, from that ship at the beginning?

  117. Dazedanlost says:

    What’s the answer to “what lies in the shadow of the statue”?

  118. Dazedanlost says:

    What’s the answer to “what lies in the shadow of the statue”?

  119. Da says:

    1. I think that the person from the beginning (not jacob) is making himself look like Locke, he also made himself look like Bens daughter in the temple so that he could influence Ben to believe him to kill Jacob. He couldnt kill Jacob himself because he probably cant, due to some sort of spirit thing im guessing which is why he made Ben do it.

    2. When Jacob said “They’re coming” he probably ment that outside of the “foot” they realized that it was NOT Locke in the temple but someone or someTHING else and that they were coming into the “foot” but it will be to late.

    3. Something seemed weird when Locke said that he wanted Ben to kill Jacob, because Locke isn’t a really violent person (he hasnt mentioned killing before).

    4. Somethings probably going to happen so that it will explain why Richard doesnt age.

    5. The man on the beach clearly can “morph” or basically turn into what he wants you to see. Which is why Jack seen his father along time ago.

  120. Dazedanlost says:

    Who or what is Richard and what about Christian?

  121. Lost In Vancouver says:

    Perhaps Egyptian mythology is the key:

    “The revenge of Horus.

    In the meantime, Harpocrates has grown to manhood, and he is called Horus. Osiris has been resurrected as the king of the dead in the underworld. One day, Osiris appears to Horus in the land of the living. He convinces Horus to avenge the wrongs that have been committed by Seth. So, Horus tracks down Seth and a huge battle begins. Victory is elusive and the battle turns first to one side, then to the other. It is said that this battle of good verses evil still rages, but some day, Horus will be victorious and on that day, Osiris will return to rule the world.”

    Does this sound familiar?

  122. miles says:

    I was doing some reserch on richard albert: there is a guy by the name of richardus aldbertus but im not sure who he was. something to do with mythology or the bible. anyone got any ideas

  123. TheoryNut says:

    I’m still convinced Richard/Richardos is the captain of The Black Rock. Jacob went off the island and manipulated Richard to sail to island. Jacob can see the future and he knew Richard would be an intricate part of the “master plan. ” The “Bad Locke” I will call Esau for fun, he was the Cabin dweller all along. Jacob somehow captured him and controlled him by keeping him in the cabin with the ashes. When Ben and Locke originally went to the cabin for the first time. Somehow it unleashed “something”. I think when Locke heard help me from the pit he heard Esau not Jacob. I think Smokey is Esau manipulating all the Losties with the Dead Apprartions etc. I think the real Christian is dead and it is only a Smokey/Esau manifestation. My theory changed on Christian tonight because I thought Locke was resurrected when he came to the island, clearly he isn’t now. and if Locke’s dead, I think Christian may be dead too and it’s just Smokey doing his thing.

    *** Crazy, loved this finale, always love to read all your blogs everyone!

  124. TheoryNut says:

    Clearly, Locke helped Esau out! Not Jacob!!!! Smokey Christian Esau made it possible for Locke to go back and die so Esau could take over Lockes body hence the loophole. Ben has been serving both masters all along and that’s why he is sooooo jacked up! he… he… he…

    Yet in the Grand Scheme of things Jacob saved Locke for a greater purpose. I swear this show messes with your head way too much!

  125. TheoryNut says:

    just for fun… in the bible, Esau was the hairy man and Jacob was smooth.

    Genesis 27:11-12 (the account of Jacob robbing Esau of Issac’s blessing)

  126. TheoryNut says:

    just for fun… in the bible, Esau was the hairy man and Jacob was smooth.

    Genesis 27:11-12 (the account of Jacob robbing Esau of Issac’s blessing)

  127. TheoryNut says:

    just for fun… in the bible, Esau was the hairy man and Jacob was smooth.

    Genesis 27:11-12 (the account of Jacob robbing Esau of Issac’s blessing)

  128. TheoryNut says:

    just for fun… in the bible, Esau was the hairy man and Jacob was smooth.

    Genesis 27:11-12 (the account of Jacob robbing Esau of Issac’s blessing)

    Romans 9:13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved by Esau I hated.”

  129. Hannah says:

    ok people let me get this straight
    Locke is not Locke he is dead. but he’s alive. evil Locke…not Locke….ok got it.
    i have a question…and i might answer it but still need some more opinions:
    Did ben stab and try and kill jacob because of his jealousy or because his alex told him to listen to locke?
    and you know how Ben always has a plan? he always know what to do. whats his plan after that?!?! u think he was thinking ahead when he stabbed Jacob, or was he blinded by all that jealousy and emotions after Jacob said “what about you?” by the way…cold!!!
    i think Ben is screwed, Locke is toast…at least evil Locke is…Jacob…com’n he’ll come back. after all these seasons of Jacob this Jacob that, we cant just have him for two hours.
    and black smokey thing, where were you?? he should have been in this season finale!
    sorry this is barely my third post ever I’m new at this.

  130. TheoryNut says:

    Ben was following Alex Smokey orders[quote comment="335233"]ok people let me get this straight
    Locke is not Locke he is dead. but he’s alive. evil Locke…not Locke….ok got it.
    i have a question…and i might answer it but still need some more opinions:
    Did ben stab and try and kill jacob because of his jealousy or because his alex told him to listen to locke?
    and you know how Ben always has a plan? he always know what to do. whats his plan after that?!?! u think he was thinking ahead when he stabbed Jacob, or was he blinded by all that jealousy and emotions after Jacob said “what about you?” by the way…cold!!!
    i think Ben is screwed, Locke is toast…at least evil Locke is…Jacob…com’n he’ll come back. after all these seasons of Jacob this Jacob that, we cant just have him for two hours.
    and black smokey thing, where were you?? he should have been in this season finale!
    sorry this is barely my third post ever I’m new at this.[/quote]

    **** Ben for sure was following orders from the Alex Smokey person! **** which is why I believe is “Esau” the beach dude!

  131. Mateo says:

    Very Cool…
    Ben is man. Locke (guy from the beach)is Devil. Jacob is God.
    Metaphorically.
    Ben at first has faith in Jacob his whole life but finally his faith is broken after all the bad things that have happened to him. Jacob gives him free will.

    This show has always been heavily influenced by the Bible, but taking it to this kind of level makes it even cooler!

    Poor John Locke, he really is dead :(

  132. ShelbyDee says:

    I couldn’t help but think of the Phoenix when Jacob went into the fire. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of him. I think the loophole is finding a devoted follower to kill/betray the thing he is devoted to, ie Jacob. Bad Locke/man on the beach can’t kill him. I’m thinking that’s because the Bad Locke and Jacob are two sides of the same coin, ie twins. I think this really comes back to the coexistance of good and evil. “They are coming” is code to Not Locke that nothing changed even though he found the loophole. The battle continues to wage. I can’t wait to read tomorrow’s posts!

  133. Shadow says:

    Ok, so my husband who doesn’t watch LOST but has seen snippits over this past season has a theory:
    Jacob and the guy on the beach at the beginning of the episode are aliens. They’ve come here to experiment with/test humans. They’ve possibly been here since Egyptian times, and influenced the Egyptians, but the test results that they’ve wanted to achieve keep alluding them. They apparently keep bringing test groups to the island but the result is that in the end they all end up killing each other. That’s why on the beach, when we see the ship approaching, the guy in black says to Jacob, you’re the one who brought them here. He says something like “It always ends the same, they come, they fight, they plunder, and in the end they end up killing each other.” or something like that.
    Jacob is trying to recruit a group that will somehow lead to a different ending. That explains why Jacob keeps making lists, and why he was visiting our Losties all along. He was picking the new group that he wanted to come to the island. Jacob and the guy on the beach are not immortal, because we saw Jacob eat a fish. They have very long life expectancy and don’t appear to age much. They’re also smart and have mastered time travel, both physically and the type of consciousness time travel that we’ve seen Desmond do. They’re responsible for all the time travelling that’s happening on the island. They are the captains so to speak and the “others” are their crew/workers. Richard is the go-between. And he’s most likely a human from Egyptian times who was recruited by Jacob and/or the other beach guy and given the ability to age slowly like the two of them. We have seen Richard helping Jacob in recruiting people to the island, i.e. Juliette.
    The other beach dude told Jacob that he wanted to kill him very badly and that one day he would finally find a loophole. In the end inside the temple, Jacob knew that the person occupying John Locke’s body was the other beach dude and he said to him “you found your loophole”! When people die, they can be mummified to preserve their bodies, so that these two can send their consciousness into the bodies. We saw that for sure tonight when it was revealed that other beach dude was occupying Locke’s body. He either died when his father threw him out the window, but probably his real end was when Ben strangled him. Locke’s possessed body is in the temple, but the other Locke body on the beach must be one brought back from the future.
    Anyway, don’t know how to fill in the gaps, but good theory my hubby came up with, IMHO.
    Just watch the beginning beach scene again and the temple scene at the end and it all makes sense.

  134. spenser says:

    Never have posted here before, but I love reading the blog. Lots of great theories, but I loved that Jacob, as he sat on the bench waiting for Locke to fall out the window was reading “Everything that Rises Must Converge” by Flannery O’Conner… If you know the book, it’s about a mother and son, and the best summary I could give comes from here:

    “The story’s title refers to an underlying religious message that is central to her work: she aims to expose the sinful nature of humanity that often goes unrecognized in the modern, secular world.”

    Check it out

    http://www.enotes.com/everything-rises

  135. Steve says:

    I have to agree Esau is most likely the prominent candidate for the smoke monster, Christian, Alex, Evil Lokcke… But we see Jacob interact and influence our losties and Ilana in such a way as to set up a defense for this confrontation. Ilana promised to do something for Jacob that has yet to be disclosed. I remember that Bram told Miles that they were on the side that was going to win. I wouldn’t count Jacob out so fast. After all jacob was in favor of God.

    Now I need to know the translation of Richards answer to the riddle – What lies in the shadow of the statue.

    Anyone get a translation of Richards answer?

  136. Andre says:

    Read Genesis 14:5

  137. dealer says:

    “dead is dead.” so true. and as soon as ben said that i knew locke was dead and we were looking at something of the variety of christian sheppard.

    this has been my theory and sorry i haven’t been able to post this for a long time. locke is the “smoke monser” or really smoke monster is the new locke.

    the two people you see jacob and the dark hair dude, dressed in black is the “smoke monster”. thus no name for him…

    and yes, they didn’t really change anything.

    the biggest question of the series finale is not what happened to the losties (i think they flashed forward to present. that was pretty obvious as obvious as tony soprano dying at the end of the last episode. they sorta stole that from the sopranos btw. )…so the biggest question is:

    What is the loophole?

    and btw…i find it offensive that the good guy is white blonde dude and the bad guy is darker with dark hair…UGH! yuck! makes me vomit!

  138. dealer says:

    also. jacob is dead. he aint coming back. and i’m glad they killed that character cuz it was really screwing up the story. now anything is possible but if they hadn’t killed him then we woulda always had jacob to set things straight, someone that everyone feared.

    AND i liked the way they wrapped up that character unlike what they did with penny and desmond. that was the worst piece of writing i’ve seen on a good show in a while…

  139. The Kath says:

    Just want to say…

    another name for the devil is Abbadon.

    Not sure how that would fit into a Lost theory but it might help : )

  140. MacGyver says:

    HAHAHHAHAHA !!!! I’m LOVING THIS. I read all the posts just to make sure no one said it yet. I’ve spent a tremendous amount of time on this show,partly because I actually BELIEVE that most of the science is possible or has really done before. Anyone remember when our government put a mega electro magnet feild around some ship hoping to make it invisble, but got a whole lot more. The ship Re-appeared on the other side of the planet. What’s important is that there was at least one survivor…everyone was dead with body parts infused into the actual ship. It was called the philadephia experiment. I’ve heard interveiws and seen the paperwork because I’m a skeptic ass. A lot of wasted geek hours that were completely useless until lost challenged all this useless knowledge, and I just couldn’t turn away. So If you guys aren’t gonna give me a stripe tonight…I’m gonna have to borrow Hammers(;-) It is scary how ALMOST all my theories played out. I’m thinking PLEASE let my theory not be debunked….please….. My first thought opening scene…’ who the hell is this guy, and why do I want him dead” As soon as the sub turned around I knew my theory on dying WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! My rep was on the line. I have ADHD. If I manage focus on ANYTHING for that long…I am always right, always the underdog, and I always win. I’m just not allowed to ever be wrong about government, god, guns. When I know your gonna hate me for telling the truth, and will look for any reason to not have to think about it. And when they can’t find one, the next step is always acceptance. Meaning I can sleep soundly knowing I changed at least one persons life today. Some ones got to follow the golden rule.
    So unless I’m mistaken,

    I said that sub wasn’t going anywhere!!!! No surprise for me. But having Julliet be responsible for it surprised the hell out of me for a second. Then I remember I always hated her…now I know the reason. Using Kate to mess with Sawyer is just sacreligeous. But deciding to stay, after your wish is granted is just her being retarded. I can’t predict the actions of a wishy washy retard. Sawyer has always been a rock on this show, he’s an ass sometimes but the same ass as me. but, back agaist the wall, always we do what is asked, or what needs to be done. Julliete stabbed him in the back with plutonium. Sounds so messed up it’s poetry.

    They all died in the end. Now I know without bloody bodies, some of you won’t give me that.
    I wouldn’t either…..I think I’ve been right enough. It’s ok. There’s a reason they showed us their childhoods, and it wasn’t to introduce Jacob. He did NOTHING important in any flash back. I’ll happily take that strip Next season when it starts off with them being kids again. Like an earlier blogger noticed our first flash not purple but white. Sounds like the white light in death. John being possessed pretty muchs proves both. IMO

    John obviously is possed by another consciouness just as stevie and myself called and ALL you guys thought we were crazy. Not really possesion though. Possesion is more of non-physical entities invading physical. Not what I said. I said the others can unstick there consciousness and send it to another person. I was right!! who the hells consciiousness is in John? I said Magnus Hanso without a doubt. Someone on here said it was magnus with jacobb in the beginning, How did you know that. I was too busy watching the cop-out materialize. Jacob being a new person is not cool. You can bet against me if you want, and take your money ;-)

    Watching sawyer kick jacks ass felt like the gods sat down next me to make it clear that they like me. Yesterday….it was clear that they hated my guts. maybe there feeling guilty for screwing with my mind so much. Did any of you actually LIKE Ben during his only moment truth!!!! And the truth set me free of wanting him to die, but he screw up that too. Sayid helped too by his reaction to kate saving Ben….he said ‘now why would you do something like that you retarded fuck%$ backstabbing bitch. Note to self-kill her then shoot Ben Again’ without actually saying that.
    Now my two minutes of hate demands that radzinky dies just for being an asshole.

    ALL in all I still liked last seasons finale better. even If I could have guessed that entire episode, watching that island dissapear is a freakin milestone in tv. But the episode where desmond flashes after the implosion is still my favorite. It changed everything, but Eliose even gave me the chills my third time watching it. Shes scares the shit out of me.

  141. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335235"]Very Cool…
    Ben is man. Locke (guy from the beach)is Devil. Jacob is God.
    Metaphorically.
    Ben at first has faith in Jacob his whole life but finally his faith is broken after all the bad things that have happened to him. Jacob gives him free will.

    This show has always been heavily influenced by the Bible, but taking it to this kind of level makes it even cooler!

    Poor John Locke, he really is dead :([/quote]
    No for all questions…Hmmm. Dude the bible angle is a total dead end. Trust me I tried very hard to make it live even though I never liked it. The are clearly only refernces the same as the books. First of all…it’s pretty much impossible to have a giant sobek statue on the same island with 12 tribe Jacob. Not unless to wanna piss of every christian veiwer. They could have used Cunniform and It would have been easy to predict…too popular, one version. Can’t make it a biblical without serious complication. Like which bible/version. They could have pulled it off with the apacryphas though. One version, not popular,and the book of enoch is in there.

    [quote comment="335244"]
    Now I need to know the translation of Richards answer to the riddle – What lies in the shadow of the statue.

    Anyone get a translation of Richards answer?[/quoteHAHAHHAHAHA !!!! I’m LOVING THIS. I read all the posts just to make sure no one said it yet. I’ve spent a tremendous amount of time on this show,partly because I actually BELIEVE that most of the science is possible or has really done before. Anyone remember when our government put a mega electro magnet feild around some ship hoping to make it invisble, but got a whole lot more. The ship Re-appeared on the other side of the planet. What’s important is that there was at least one survivor…everyone was dead with body parts infused into the actual ship. It was called the philadephia experiment. I’ve heard interveiws and seen the paperwork because I’m a skeptic ass. A lot of wasted geek hours that were completely useless until lost challenged all this useless knowledge, and I just couldn’t turn away. So If you guys aren’t gonna give me a stripe tonight…I’m gonna have to borrow Hammers(;-) It is scary how ALMOST all my theories played out. I’m thinking PLEASE let my theory not be debunked….please….. My first thought opening scene…’ who the hell is this guy, and why do I want him dead” As soon as the sub turned around I knew my theory on dying WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! My rep was on the line. I have ADHD. If I manage focus on ANYTHING for that long…I am always right, always the underdog, and I always win. I’m just not allowed to ever be wrong about government, god, guns. When I know your gonna hate me for telling the truth, and will look for any reason to not have to think about it. And when they can’t find one, the next step is always acceptance. Meaning I can sleep soundly knowing I changed at least one persons life today. Some ones got to follow the golden rule.
    So unless I’m mistaken,

    I said that sub wasn’t going anywhere!!!! No surprise for me. But having Julliet be responsible for it surprised the hell out of me for a second. Then I remember I always hated her…now I know the reason. Using Kate to mess with Sawyer is just sacreligeous. But deciding to stay, after your wish is granted is just her being retarded. I can’t predict the actions of a wishy washy retard. Sawyer has always been a rock on this show, he’s an ass sometimes but the same ass as me. but, back agaist the wall, always we do what is asked, or what needs to be done. Julliete stabbed him in the back with plutonium. Sounds so messed up it’s poetry.

    They all died in the end. Now I know without bloody bodies, some of you won’t give me that.
    I wouldn’t either…..I think I’ve been right enough. It’s ok. There’s a reason they showed us their childhoods, and it wasn’t to introduce Jacob. He did NOTHING important in any flash back. I’ll happily take that strip Next season when it starts off with them being kids again. Like an earlier blogger noticed our first flash not purple but white. Sounds like the white light in death. John being possessed pretty muchs proves both. IMO

    John obviously is possed by another consciouness just as stevie and myself called and ALL you guys thought we were crazy. Not really possesion though. Possesion is more of non-physical entities invading physical. Not what I said. I said the others can unstick there consciousness and send it to another person. I was right!! who the hells consciiousness is in John? I said Magnus Hanso without a doubt. Someone on here said it was magnus with jacobb in the beginning, How did you know that. I was too busy watching the cop-out materialize. Jacob being a new person is not cool. You can bet against me if you want, and take your money ;-)

    Watching sawyer kick jacks ass felt like the gods sat down next me to make it clear that they like me. Yesterday….it was clear that they hated my guts. maybe there feeling guilty for screwing with my mind so much. Did any of you actually LIKE Ben during his only moment truth!!!! And the truth set me free of wanting him to die, but he screw up that too. Sayid helped too by his reaction to kate saving Ben….he said ‘now why would you do something like that you retarded fuck%$ backstabbing bitch. Note to self-kill her then shoot Ben Again’ without actually saying that.
    Now my two minutes of hate demands that radzinky dies just for being an asshole.

    ALL in all I still liked last seasons finale better. even If I could have guessed that entire episode, watching that island dissapear is a freakin milestone in tv. But the episode where desmond flashes after the implosion is still my favorite. It changed everything, but Eliose even gave me the chills my third time watching it. Shes scares the shit out of me

    [quote comment="335244"]I have to agree Esau is most likely the prominent candidate for the smoke monster, Christian, Alex, Evil Lokcke… But we see Jacob interact and influence our losties and Ilana in such a way as to set up a defense for this confrontation. Ilana promised to do something for Jacob that has yet to be disclosed. I remember that Bram told Miles that they were on the side that was going to win. I wouldn’t count Jacob out so fast. After all jacob was in favor of God.

    Now I need to know the translation of Richards answer to the riddle – What lies in the shadow of the statue.

    Anyone get a translation of Richards answer?[/quote]

    Jack breaking down the bomb earns you a stripe and applause brother.

    The answer is resurection/reincarnation. Everything else I said turned to gold tonight. I’ve been blinded by vindication.

  142. Rita says:

    I was thinking when Jacob “died” that it was a “Lion, Witch, Wardrobe” moment – where Aslan “lets” the evil witch “kill” him, thinking she was now going to have free reign over Narnia (she also had to find a loophole in order to do it – getting Edmond to be a traitor) but REALLY she was releasing the “deeper magic” – making Aslan more powerful than ever, and overcoming death. With all the CS Lewis references, I think this will come into play here. Jacob will not stay dead. “Esau” has FAKED an overcoming of death all this time, but Jacob will do it for real.

  143. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335221"]I was doing some reserch on richard albert: there is a guy by the name of richardus aldbertus but im not sure who he was. something to do with mythology or the bible. anyone got any ideas[/quote]

    the real Richard Albert is a freakin saint. I strongly recommend reading his works. He was the unspoken hero for LSD. He was a profesor at harvard, when met Timothy Leary. Then he REALLY tuned in and dropped out. Leary make acid cool and popular. Richard changed his life and mine and many. As soon as he realized the lsd wasn’t going to give him the answers he seeked he went to india!!! He found a guru and gave him a tremendous amount of acid…. When it had no effect on guru, richard had to stay the night. when he woke …the guru told him exactly what he dreamed and what he was thinking. richard then Became RAM DASS. I was fortunate enough to read his masterpaice ‘be here now’ a book you are blatanly supposed to read on acid in three parts…100% golden…teaching the cosmic joke to anyone on acid is amazing. To do teach that countless times, AND still be an incredible speaker when you’ve done more acid then most, makes me want him as a kick as pope.
    He had a stroke ….survived it. Then wrote the sequel ‘still here’.

  144. Nikki says:

    I got that Jacob was good and the other guy in black was smoky/evil. He influenced Ben by impersonating Ben’s daughter and telling him to do whatever John told him to do. I don’t really get how Jacob went back to everyone in a flash but when we saw Juliette’s flash back there wasn’t a Jacob in that I wonder why? Just was focused on her thoughts of why it was okay to let Sawyer go. I thought Nadia/Sayid’s wife was shot by someone. Ben told him that so he took revenge on the person who did it. Jacob touched a couple of them did he touch all of them..on the shoulder(kate),handing Jack the candy, Locke on the shoulder, Hurley? He touched Sawyer. Something I just noticed. I do believe that Lapidus is the candidate for Jacob to reincarnate into. This show has made me a better abstract thinker.
    2010 can’t wait!!

  145. Newmanium says:

    I liked how Jack woke up from getting hit on the head by the flying metal and it was very reminiscent of the orignal opening scene from the 1st epidsode where Jack woke up to the plane crash. Very Cool.

  146. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335238"] I ssooooo hurt by this. I remember talking to you the day you and I recomeneded those sites. I posted pretty much the same thing[quote comment="335224"]I’m still convinced Richard/Richardos is the captain of The Black Rock. Jacob went off the island and manipulated Richard to sail to island. Jacob can see the future and he knew Richard would be an intricate part of the “master plan. ” The “Bad Locke” I will call Esau for fun, he was the Cabin dweller all along. Jacob somehow captured him and controlled him by keeping him in the cabin with the ashes. When Ben and Locke originally went to the cabin for the first time. Somehow it unleashed “something”. I think when Locke heard help me from the pit he heard Esau not Jacob. I think Smokey is Esau manipulating all the Losties with the Dead Apprartions etc. I think the real Christian is dead and it is only a Smokey/Esau manifestation. My theory changed on Christian tonight because I thought Locke was resurrected when he came to the island, clearly he isn’t now. and if Locke’s dead, I think Christian may be dead too and it’s just Smokey doing his thing.

    *** Crazy, loved this finale, always love to read all your blogs everyone![/quote]
    [/quote]

    If RA is egyptian, then its impossible for him to be Magnus. Besides IMO all roads point to lock

  147. Farahallen says:

    [quote comment="335185"]So, I missed the first 20 minutes, and was confused for the next 100.

    But anyway —
    Juliette -> Smoke monster? I know she isn’t but her “death” was a total smoke monster deja vu.

    Rattling chains, getting pulled inexorably down a hole, not dying — it is like exactly what was happening when the smoke monster did its thing.

    Or is that my imagination?[/quote]
    Wow I can believe this one. The smoke monster seems to be a electric force mixed with emotions. Maybe the mixture of a bomb and the magnetic field and lets not forget the strangeness of the island created the monster i.e. Juliette. Remember in past episodes when Locke encounters the monster? That monster knew something.

  148. Newmanium says:

    Something I can’t get out of my mind…when Jacob says in the opening scene that “It all keeps ending the same, they come, fight, corrupt” (I don’t remember the rest). Who is he referring to as “They”? Are “they” the same people that keep coming back or that he keeps bringing back but just in different time periods? Or are “They” different groups of people that repeat the same actions? Would this make the Oceanic Survivors not that important? Just another group that is going to do the same things as the others before them? Or are the Oceanic Survivors special?

  149. Farahallen says:

    [quote comment="335186"]If Jacob is good than Ben made a mistake but I was kind of on Ben’s side at the end where he gave that long speech. He followed everything Jacob said and then Jacob basically called him a piece of crap. But it all makes sense now. Whoever that guy is that took over Locke cant kill Jacob and the “loophole” he found was someone to kill Jacob for him (Ben). I just cant see Jacob being gone already.[/quote]
    What do we know about Jacob? He know things right? He’s old as hell and he basically scouted some of the main characters since childhood. I don’t believe lying Ben can get one over with on him with the “surprise I am going to Kill you. Did Jacob know that Bens attention seeking ways would be the Death of Jacob as “Plan”. That other really old guy waited years on top of years to get into Lockes body. I am not saying Jacob is dead but I am saying Jacob is smart and Telling Ben he wasn’t Sh*t was a great way to get Ben to kill him. We will see in 2010.

  150. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335244"]Anyone get a translation of Richards answer?[/quote]

    I stand corrected…Looks like i was wrong on one issue

    the riddle’s answer by RA translates to
    He who will protect/save us all.”

  151. mcotter says:

    [quote comment="335278"]Something I can’t get out of my mind…when Jacob says in the opening scene that “It all keeps ending the same, they come, fight, corrupt” (I don’t remember the rest). [/quote]

    The other man says that not Jacob. Another little thought from what the other man says we get the impression that he does not like other people coming to the island in this case the black rock, Jacob however does, he says “you brought them here”, and presumabally many of the ships people will become ‘the others/hostiles’ as we know them. This Jacob bringing them to the island cannot be a coincedence that we see Jacob with all the survivors before the crash of 815 (except hurley) perhaps he is starting the early process of bringing them to the island.

  152. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="335187"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    Keamy since he broke the rules and killed Alex.

    Widmore (post DHARMA since he wasn’t orig. DHARMA

    The Walt apparitions, Libby apparitions, Claire apparitions, etc., etc.

    Christian (post death).

    I believe all of this because of his comment “You have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here”.[/quote]

    I’m not sure about Keamey, but the appararitions all seem to be the work of the beach guy (I’m gonna call him the black stone)… possibly he is connected to the smoke monster also.

    He has been manipulating all kinds of things, to get to his end result of killing Jacob. I like how someone else put it… Jacob is a god who leads by allowing people to have free will… The other side doesn’t believe that it should work, but yet Jacob holds sway over the island… so now he will make free will work against Jacob… and it is in that sentiment that the black stone needs to find a loophole, to take the power.

    This also has me thinking alot about how the black side has been playing the islands time capabilities. There is hardly a road to travel through time, rather a connection to different points in time. Like, ultimately, it would not have been possible for Ben to kill Jacob in 2007, if a bomb wasn’t dropped into the ground in 1977. Connect the dots style. We know how free will fueled both of these actions now, but we also see how their will was manipulated by the black stone… I think.

    Theres still plenty of room for Whisperers though Hammer!

  153. Farahallen says:

    [quote comment="335249"]“dead is dead.” so true. and as soon as ben said that i knew locke was dead and we were looking at something of the variety of christian sheppard.

    this has been my theory and sorry i haven’t been able to post this for a long time. locke is the “smoke monser” or really smoke monster is the new locke.

    the two people you see jacob and the dark hair dude, dressed in black is the “smoke monster”. thus no name for him…

    and yes, they didn’t really change anything.

    the biggest question of the series finale is not what happened to the losties (i think they flashed forward to present. that was pretty obvious as obvious as tony soprano dying at the end of the last episode. they sorta stole that from the sopranos btw. )…so the biggest question is:

    What is the loophole?

    and btw…i find it offensive that the good guy is white blonde dude and the bad guy is darker with dark hair…UGH! yuck! makes me vomit![/quote]

    As a black woman your comment “I find it offensive that the good guy is white blonde dude and the bad guy is darker with dark hair…UGH! yuck! makes me vomit”
    Is offensive to me and all the other Lost fans.

    Can’t we all just get along? Black Jacob with dreads, White guy Jacob with blonde hair , Jewish Jacob with a curly fro, Italian Jacob with hair gal. Who cares! Take a lesson from Rose, she has her white man who I must say loves her like Richard loves eye makeup.

  154. L says:

    I think “they’re coming” is a warning/threat from Jacob to fake Locke. “They” are bringing the original Locke body to the statue to recapture whatever spirit is inhabiting the fake Locke. I’ve believed all along that Lost is about gods controlling the fates of people who arrive on the island. Perhaps the remaining gods were somehow “banished” to the island? Jacob (good) and fake Locke (bad) are in some kind of final battle.

  155. steve says:

    [quote comment="335273"]I liked how Jack woke up from getting hit on the head by the flying metal and it was very reminiscent of the orignal opening scene from the 1st epidsode where Jack woke up to the plane crash. Very Cool.[/quote]

    ___________________________________________

    I would wager that Season 6 opener begins with a close up on Jacks eye and he is waking up on his back in the jungle.

    The conversation Jacob has with what I will assume to be Esau was very telling. Esau has lost faith in man and feels that man is doomed to follow the same course. Jacob appears to have a lot of faith in man and tells Esau in effect that every time man try’s to get it right, and fails, it is simply progress. This comment about progress tells us that Jacob believes that Man is learning how to get it right, in this episode we see that Rose and Bernard get it right. There may be hope for man yet.

  156. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="335162"][quote comment="335160"]I was happy for PJ when they showed Charlie’s ring.

    Did anyone get the translation of what Richard said (in Latin) to Ilana yet?

    I really can’t stand the triangle/quadrangle stuff, but I thought the scene with Sawyer trying to hang on and Juliet letting go was really sad.[/quote]

    Thanks, Toeknee, so was I! LOL

    The screen turned WHITE instead of BLACK at the end… do you think it was another time flash?!

    : ) P[/quote]
    *********
    that was what i was thinking!

  157. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335291"][quote comment="335162"][quote comment="335160"]I was happy for PJ when they showed Charlie’s ring.

    Did anyone get the translation of what Richard said (in Latin) to Ilana yet?

    I really can’t stand the triangle/quadrangle stuff, but I thought the scene with Sawyer trying to hang on and Juliet letting go was really sad.[/quote]

    Thanks, Toeknee, so was I! LOL

    The screen turned WHITE instead of BLACK at the end… do you think it was another time flash?!

    : ) P[/quote]
    *********
    that was what i was thinking![/quote]
    ___________________________

    me too! I think they get flash forwarded to go and help out ilana and co….i would have to flip shit if they land in LA and nothing happened

  158. steve says:

    [quote comment="335286"][quote comment="335249"]“dead is dead.” so true. and as soon as ben said that i knew locke was dead and we were looking at something of the variety of christian sheppard.

    this has been my theory and sorry i haven’t been able to post this for a long time. locke is the “smoke monser” or really smoke monster is the new locke.

    the two people you see jacob and the dark hair dude, dressed in black is the “smoke monster”. thus no name for him…

    and yes, they didn’t really change anything.

    the biggest question of the series finale is not what happened to the losties (i think they flashed forward to present. that was pretty obvious as obvious as tony soprano dying at the end of the last episode. they sorta stole that from the sopranos btw. )…so the biggest question is:

    What is the loophole?

    and btw…i find it offensive that the good guy is white blonde dude and the bad guy is darker with dark hair…UGH! yuck! makes me vomit![/quote]

    As a black woman your comment “I find it offensive that the good guy is white blonde dude and the bad guy is darker with dark hair…UGH! yuck! makes me vomit”
    Is offensive to me and all the other Lost fans.

    Can’t we all just get along? Black Jacob with dreads, White guy Jacob with blonde hair , Jewish Jacob with a curly fro, Italian Jacob with hair gal. Who cares! Take a lesson from Rose, she has her white man who I must say loves her like Richard loves eye makeup.[/quote]

    ________________________________________

    I have to agree that race has nothing to do with the storyline. This type of senseless race baiting is exactly what the theme of the show was about. Rose states it very plainly. They came back 30 years and they still want to shoot each other. If what you need is for people of color to be portrayed in greatness then you got it in this episode. A black woman makes three white folks look really petty and stupid, but perhaps you too busy being outraged to notice.

    And it may be inconsequential, but if the biblical references are correct, Esau is the twin brother of Jacob, who was born first and thus the elder. It was Jacob who usurped Esau’s birthright. This may be why Esau refuses the offer of food from jacob; probably still stinging from the first time . Jacob is not necessarily a good guy.

  159. steve says:

    When Desmond used the failsafe, there was a big flash of white light, and Desmond wakes up naked in the jungle.
    Does anyone think that we will get to see Juliet wake up naked in the jungle?

  160. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335298"]When Desmond used the failsafe, there was a big flash of white light, and Desmond wakes up naked in the jungle.
    Does anyone think that we will get to see Juliet wake up naked in the jungle?[/quote]
    ____________

    When he turned the failsafe key the sky turned purple, there was no flash of white light

  161. Brian Durkin says:

    The statue is Sobek who is in charge of fertility. He has been destroyed and so babies die on the island. Several times the symbols he held in his hands have appeared on necklaces or on walls.

    Richard Alpert is from the Black Rock and will come ashore and meet Jacob for the first time.

    Smokey didn’t kill Locke because Locke had already died and was resurected by Jacob. Smokey might be one form of the man Jacob was speaking with to open this episode. He now is the one appearing to be Locke.

    The “loophole” probably isn’t that Ben kills Jacob, but that John Locke had been resurected by Jacob.

    Faraday was right. Humans are the wildcard in the equation and can change things. The H-bomb changes things (ala Star Trek).

    Hurley’s guitar case contains the keys to Jacob’s ultimate “victory”. That is Hurley’s purpose.

  162. kelli says:

    I never touched a Lost blog because I was afraid I was so far behind everyone with my various theories. My daughter and I started a list of character names last season to see if we could solve the mysteries based on who they were in the real world. Conclusion? The writers, who are writers likely because they were readers first, likely used names of people whose work influenced them. I also think that the episode titles might have a second, deeper meaning. Hubby asked me a question last night about Jacob, and it started a discussion about the biblical Jacob. I theorize that there is no more relevance to the biblical character than there is to the real RA or JL, etc. The only significance of LSD, I personally believe, is that the show writers are using it…lol.

    I wonder if Ben’s sparing Alex had anything to do with starting the entire loophole? After all, Jacob supposedly told Ben to kill her, and he didn’t…it was her influence later that led Ben to kill Jacob…further, Jacob’s disdain for Ben when they met was obvious…or was it? I got the impression that he didn’t really think Ben would kill him, or did he just want to get it over with because Jacob can’t be killed? (ref to narnia in someone else’s post earlier).

    I got the impression at the beginning that neither of the guys on the beach were “bad” guys, but rather this: one seemed to want to leave and the other to stay. Everyone who wants to stay seems (Rose and Bernard, Juliet and Sawyer) content, and those who want to leave seem to be continually thwarted by them.

    I didn’t get the same feeling from Jack’s encounter with Jacob that I did from everyone else’s. Saying that, Sawyer wanted to stay and that seemed contrary to Jacob’s position at the beginning of the finale.

    I might be, ultimately, a little fuzzy on some details, though. Thinking it was the last episode, my husband and I played a drinking game on names, the term “the island” and ANY time shift that occurred. In two hours, you can imagine…

    Then there was Locke. On the one hand, Locke’s being dead and his body being present would have been the big CLUE, the thing that Locke was there for…the proof that Jacob’s ‘friend’ had found the loophole. But, since Ben killed him…

    As far as the smoke monster…lots of great theories…I personally think it’s the collective overheating of brains trying to work it all out working…bicariously? (did I spell that right?) on screen! j/k

  163. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="335244"]I have to agree Esau is most likely the prominent candidate for the smoke monster, Christian, Alex, Evil Lokcke… [/quote]

    Disagree that Dark Hair Guy is Smokey. If he was, he would not need Ben to tell him what Smokey said to him. He would already know that Ben has to do what he says and have no need to plan on convincing him to kill Jacob.

  164. Vaughn K says:

    I definately think Hurley is more important than he has ever been from seeing his meeting with Jacob last night. I think Hurley is the only pure one on the island because he really is the only one that has not done anything bad in his life from what I remember. Oh wait, he did run over Ryan with the van in the season 3 finale but that was to save his friends life so that isnt really bad. I think Jacob entrusted Hugo with whatever is in that guitar case becuase he is pure. And I am assuming either Hugo looked in the guitar case and realized he has to take back whatever it was with him or someone dead came to talk to him again and told him to bring that with him. He didnt bring it just to recreate the events of 815 because he did not know that they were supposed to be trying to do that. He missed that conversation. Hurley is very important in Season 6.

  165. CM says:

    The finale sucked. Apt punctuation for a season that devolved into a one-dimensional, cookie-cutter commercial machine. No finesse, no subtlety, no explanations for anything and no new reasons to care. Welcome Jacob, the island fairy crossing time and space to connect the dots? The Locke twins, dead or alive? Faux epic boxing (all blood, no bruises. Make-up budget must’ve been cut right after they dumped the good writers). Juliet getting wrapped in a chain and sucked down the magnet hole is a total metaphor for how this show treated its audience this year. Exploited to the end — we’re still alive after that fall!? — and the only way out is to blow the whole thing up. I’m out of this cult. Call me when they’re reunited on “Celebrity Hospice.”

  166. The Wrz says:

    Fade to white???? Now I have to think about that for the next year

  167. Brian Durkin says:

    And of course, Esau (Jacob’s adversary) has been appearing as people like Ben’s daughter, Eko’s brother, etc…

    That’s why I think he’s Smokey.

  168. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335308"]The finale sucked. Apt punctuation for a season that devolved into a one-dimensional, cookie-cutter commercial machine. No finesse, no subtlety, no explanations for anything and no new reasons to care. Welcome Jacob, the island fairy crossing time and space to connect the dots? The Locke twins, dead or alive? Faux epic boxing (all blood, no bruises. Make-up budget must’ve been cut right after they dumped the good writers). Juliet getting wrapped in a chain and sucked down the magnet hole is a total metaphor for how this show treated its audience this year. Exploited to the end — we’re still alive after that fall!? — and the only way out is to blow the whole thing up. I’m out of this cult. Call me when they’re reunited on “Celebrity Hospice.”[/quote]

    Did we watch the same show?

    Well don’t let the door hit you in the A$$ on the way out of the cult. We’ll stay here and drink our Kool-Aid without you.

    SHEESH.

    : ) P

  169. steve says:

    [quote comment="335306"][quote comment="335244"]I have to agree Esau is most likely the prominent candidate for the smoke monster, Christian, Alex, Evil Lokcke… [/quote]

    Disagree that Dark Hair Guy is Smokey. If he was, he would not need Ben to tell him what Smokey said to him. He would already know that Ben has to do what he says and have no need to plan on convincing him to kill Jacob.[/quote]
    _______________________________________

    He lied about who he was, why wouldn’t he lie about what he knows?

  170. kelli says:

    lol CM…I have to admit, it wasn’t the best reason to blow my diet and start smoking again…but I’m hooked like a housewife on General Hospital. Ten bucks says the last scene of the very last episode is Jacob and friend sitting on the beach having pretty much the same conversation with another ship on the horizon…

  171. steve says:

    [quote comment="335311"][quote comment="335308"]The finale sucked. Apt punctuation for a season that devolved into a one-dimensional, cookie-cutter commercial machine. No finesse, no subtlety, no explanations for anything and no new reasons to care. Welcome Jacob, the island fairy crossing time and space to connect the dots? The Locke twins, dead or alive? Faux epic boxing (all blood, no bruises. Make-up budget must’ve been cut right after they dumped the good writers). Juliet getting wrapped in a chain and sucked down the magnet hole is a total metaphor for how this show treated its audience this year. Exploited to the end — we’re still alive after that fall!? — and the only way out is to blow the whole thing up. I’m out of this cult. Call me when they’re reunited on “Celebrity Hospice.”[/quote]

    Did we watch the same show?

    Well don’t let the door hit you in the A$$ on the way out of the cult. We’ll stay here and drink our Kool-Aid without you.

    SHEESH.

    : ) P[/quote]

    _________________________

    Sorry it didn’t work for you. You have a choice. You don’t have to watch anything you don’t want to watch.
    Good bye.

  172. SMC says:

    Note that it is Esau (as Locke) that tells Richard to go up to Locke (as Locke) when he is flashing through time and tell him that to bring everyone back he’s going to have to die [Follow the Leader].

    Also, this may explain why Esau (as Locke) disappeared when Ben was being judged by the Monster.

  173. Jimmy63 says:

    Julliettes fall into the hole and detonating the bomb was the variable that has changed everything. Ben’s dad started to change his tune when Ben was shot realizing life is short he starts caring about sons well being.Yet when Ben kills his father in the purge there seems tobe no recollection of the shooting and dad is still an alcoholic SOB who still blames Ben for his wifes death.
    Nadia has died twice now under different circumstances shot by an assasin in Iran and now shes has been a hit and run victim.So things have changed indeed
    You’re gonna die Nadia and theres nothing Sayid can do about it
    Locke vs. Locke coming in 2010 get your ringside seat now its gonna get ugly

  174. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335324"]
    Nadia has died twice now under different circumstances shot by an assasin in Iran and now shes has been a hit and run victim.So things have changed indeed
    You’re gonna die Nadia and theres nothing Sayid can do about it
    Locke vs. Locke coming in 2010 get your ringside seat now its gonna get ugly[/quote]

    Nope. Nadia was killed by a hit-and-run driver. There was never an assassin in Iran killing Nadia.

    : ) P

  175. Jason says:

    [quote comment="335302"]The statue is Sobek who is in charge of fertility. He has been destroyed and so babies die on the island. Several times the symbols he held in his hands have appeared on necklaces or on walls.

    Richard Alpert is from the Black Rock and will come ashore and meet Jacob for the first time.

    Smokey didn’t kill Locke because Locke had already died and was resurected by Jacob. Smokey might be one form of the man Jacob was speaking with to open this episode. He now is the one appearing to be Locke.

    The “loophole” probably isn’t that Ben kills Jacob, but that John Locke had been resurected by Jacob.

    Faraday was right. Humans are the wildcard in the equation and can change things. The H-bomb changes things (ala Star Trek).

    Hurley’s guitar case contains the keys to Jacob’s ultimate “victory”. That is Hurley’s purpose.[/quote]
    ______________________________________________
    Wait a minute….Didn’t Sun and Frank see the smoke monster hovering outside the house with the picture of Jack, Hurley, etc.. in 1977? So if you are saying that the “evil” Locke is the smoke monster, AKA, the man with Jacob in the opening scene, how can he be in two places at once at the same time? Because the “evil” Locke would have been at the crash site on the small island at the same time Sun and Frank found Christian.

  176. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335187"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    The Walt apparitions, Libby, Claire, Alex, etc., etc.

    Christian (post death).

    I believe all of this because of his comment “You have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here”.[/quote]
    **************************************

    I agree 100% Hammer

    [quote comment="335194"]Okay, in the flashback to Juliet’s childhood, it looked an awful lot like it was taking place in the present time period. It certainly didn’t look like late 70s early 80s. [/quote]
    **********************************************
    That was all i was thinking about throughout this whole scene…seemed very odd to me

    [quote comment="335214"]What’s the answer to “what lies in the shadow of the statue”?[/quote]
    ********************************************

    I beleive it was “He who will protect us”

    1. Jacob’s enemy (we have to come up with a better name) was in the cabin all along. Jacob has never been in the cabin. Locke moved the ash around it and allowed Jacob’e enemy to get out.

    2. When Jacob said to Ben “what about you?” I felt bad for Ben. Was Jacob saying it in a mean manner?

    3.What language was Jacob speaking to Ilana in? Did you notice that he never touched her?

    4.What could Lapidus be a “candidate” for? resurrecting Jacob?

    5.Who are the groups if there is another time jump. (which i’m pretty positive there will be) Jin,Sayid,&Hurley…..Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Miles/
    Chang others in 77….Beach group
    Where do you think they will jump to?

    Favorite line of the night…Bernard: Son of a bitch (ha ha ha)

  177. Vaughn K says:

    [quote comment="335324"]Julliettes fall into the hole and detonating the bomb was the variable that has changed everything. Ben’s dad started to change his tune when Ben was shot realizing life is short he starts caring about sons well being.Yet when Ben kills his father in the purge there seems tobe no recollection of the shooting and dad is still an alcoholic SOB who still blames Ben for his wifes death.
    Nadia has died twice now under different circumstances shot by an assasin in Iran and now shes has been a hit and run victim.So things have changed indeed
    You’re gonna die Nadia and theres nothing Sayid can do about it
    Locke vs. Locke coming in 2010 get your ringside seat now its gonna get ugly[/quote]
    ___________________________________________

    Nadia was never shot to my knowledge i thought she was always hit by a car and we only see Roger for like 5 total mins in the episode where ben kills him so I dont find it odd that he didnt mention getting shot in that 5 mins. why would he?

  178. taylor says:

    Great season finale! The scenes with the Sawyer and Jack crew definatly reminded me of the season 2 finale with key getting turned and all the people fighting about whether or not they should let the time run out in the first place. The scenes with the John and Ben crew reminded me of the Season 3 finale when they are all hiking to the tower and then they are told that the people that are coming are bad and stuff.

    Any way,I was really happy to see rose and bernard again. glad to see they are happy. Really hoping Juliet is not dead, but don’t really care if Sayid is.

    Over all I found this to be a very good Season finale with a great cliff hanger for next year. :D

  179. Lis says:

    I think the 2010 season will show them back in LA as if nothing ever happened but like Jack said to Sawyer they will fulfill their destiny therefore Jack will end up with kate, Sawyer w/ Juliette, Sayid’s wife dead etc.. The point is you have a destiny and no matter what happens (plane crash or not) you will fulfill it. That is why the last tittle was “Destiny Found” we will finally get to see what each character’s destiny really is. I am so hooked! Can’t wait for 2010!!! This show is so deep!

    Ps- Does anyone have an explanation on the “flasfoward’ when Sunn is giving birth to her baby her husband is in the same hospital but has no idea she is giving birth? WTF? I don’t have an explanation for that.

  180. jaime says:

    Also if that was the Black rock (which i think it was) how did it end up in the middle of the island? I think RA in on the BR with Hanso. Did Jacob visit RA or Hanso and “touch” them? Is that how he brought them to the island as Jacob’s enemy suggested?

    Crazy to find out that Eloise was the leader not Widmore. Was she banished? Why did she leave? I wish they wouldve shown more about her after RA hit her over the head.

  181. Jason says:

    [quote comment="335337"]I think the 2010 season will show them back in LA as if nothing ever happened but like Jack said to Sawyer they will fulfill their destiny therefore Jack will end up with kate, Sawyer w/ Juliette, Sayid’s wife dead etc.. The point is you have a destiny and no matter what happens (plane crash or not) you will fulfill it. That is why the last tittle was “Destiny Found” we will finally get to see what each character’s destiny really is. I am so hooked! Can’t wait for 2010!!! This show is so deep!

    Ps- Does anyone have an explanation on the “flasfoward’ when Sunn is giving birth to her baby her husband is in the same hospital but has no idea she is giving birth? WTF? I don’t have an explanation for that.[/quote]
    _________________________________________
    That was two totally different times. Jin was already dead when Sun was giving birth. Jin’s flash in that episode was when someone else’s baby was born. I can’t remember exactly who. I think it was a higher-up in Sun’s father’s company. Jin was hurrying there to pay respects to the new child.

  182. Tara says:

    [quote comment="335173"]Is anyone else really disappointed that it turns out Locke is really still dead? Like when he was reincarnated it was awesome and Locke is like the coolest character on the show and now it turns out its not even Locke which kind of sucks. Maybe somehow the real Locke will still come back but i dont know.

    —————————————————

    I haven’t read threw all of this yet so sorry if someone has said this already.

    I don’t necessarily think that the new Locke is not Locke anymore. He still remembers Locke stuff (the hatch door, dieing, etc) If he has truly become someone else he would be someone else. Maybe reincarnated as that dude on the beach, but still Locke.

    And how do we know that Jacob is all good. I mean the Island wants Locke to be the leader, the Island wants Ben to do what Locke says.

    One more side point. Walt saw Locke on the beach in a suite. Now new Locke isn’t wearing a suite but dead body Locke is. Just what do you make of that.

    So many more questions.

    And Just throwing this out there. What if they do just land in LA. But in the back of there minds they have this nagging need that they can’t fulfill which brings them back to the Island.

    It’s been fun, can’t wait till 2010.

  183. Locke is Jacob says:

    Great Episode…I didn’t think last week could be topped, I was wrong.

    A few thoughts

    – Love the Black/White metaphor in the beginning beach scene. The absolutes (Black/White – Good/Evil) have been present since the begging and I feel will ultimately be left to some interpretations when next season is over.

    – Theory Nut / Rita / Steve and everyone else that has mentioned the similarity to the story of Jacob / Esau, I couldn’t agree more. I feel like we are just starting to scratch the surface with the Jacob / Other Beach Guy story line. Although the biblical reference might not fully explain what’s happening, I think it was definitely and influence.

    – Vaughn K…thanks again for being Johnny on the Spot with the answer last night and I couldn’t agree more about Hurley. They mentioned in the recap that he is the most “Morally Pure” character and I agree he will play a large role in The Final Season (bittersweet saying that).

    – Walt’s dream may very well come true, we have Locke back in a suit on the island!

    – Finally, I don’t think anyone has commented on it, but I love that Jack’s 5 second story in the OR finally came back. That was from the pilot episode…crazy.

    Thanks to everyone for the great comments this season, hope to see everyone back in 36 to 37 weeks…give or take a few weeks :-)

  184. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335337"]I think the 2010 season will show them back in LA as if nothing ever happened but like Jack said to Sawyer they will fulfill their destiny therefore Jack will end up with kate, Sawyer w/ Juliette, Sayid’s wife dead etc.. The point is you have a destiny and no matter what happens (plane crash or not) you will fulfill it. That is why the last tittle was “Destiny Found” we will finally get to see what each character’s destiny really is. I am so hooked! Can’t wait for 2010!!! This show is so deep!

    Ps- Does anyone have an explanation on the “flasfoward’ when Sunn is giving birth to her baby her husband is in the same hospital but has no idea she is giving birth? WTF? I don’t have an explanation for that.[/quote]

    __________________________

    Those two scenes actually weren’t at the same time. At least that’s how I saw it. Reason being is because Sun got pregnant on the island and also left the island without Jin. Jin was still in the real world for his scene which leads me to believe that they did this just to show us the similarity of those two different days and that Jin should have been there with his wife that day. I think just so that we have an emotional tie to them…Anyone else feel me?

  185. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335337"]Ps- Does anyone have an explanation on the “flasfoward’ when Sunn is giving birth to her baby her husband is in the same hospital but has no idea she is giving birth? WTF? I don’t have an explanation for that.[/quote]

    They were two separate timelines. While we were flashing FORWARD to Sun’s giving birth to Ji Yeon, we were flashing BACK to when Jin first started working for Paik, shortly after he and Sun were married. They were shown simultaneously to lead us to believe that Jin was one of the O6. It wasn’t until the reveal at the end, with Sun at Jin’s gravemarker, that we find out it was a flashback for him. We then “know” that he is “dead” – or at least did not get off the island as an O6.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  186. Tara says:

    [quote comment="335188"]I think this has all happened in 1977 before. A nuclear blast would explain the baby issues. Something tells me Ben knows whats going on, and he was supposed to kill Jacob. Its too hard to believe he lead without cause. The person working out of the cabin is the other guy. Maybe Ben has really been taking orders from him? Cant wait for next season.[/quote]
    —————————————————-

    Can’t agree more. And who says he’s bad.

  187. Tara says:

    [quote comment="335344"][quote comment="335188"]I think this has all happened in 1977 before. A nuclear blast would explain the baby issues. Something tells me Ben knows whats going on, and he was supposed to kill Jacob. Its too hard to believe he lead without cause. The person working out of the cabin is the other guy. Maybe Ben has really been taking orders from him? Cant wait for next season.[/quote]
    —————————————————-

    Can’t agree more. And who says he’s bad.[/quote]

    I meant to say I can’t agree more with the first part. Dude in cabin is dude on the beach.

    But Ben has been taking orders from Jacob. Not the dude in the cabin.

  188. Greatseason2009 says:

    Religious veiw of lost
    Jacob- stuck in the cabin until released- true leader of the island
    Esau- Risen Locke and every other ghost. Embodiment of evil and judgment.
    Ben (job)- tool of Jacob and Esau
    Jack- is a shepherd of others (messiah for the island “Christian Shepherd” duh!!)
    Locke- seeks enlightenment
    Eloise Hawking- Time travel is possible

    Overall, it’s the age old debate of science vs. faith, when in fact they should not be at odds, but united. True message- Judgment and Redemption.

  189. jaime says:

    Please explain your theories as to why you think Jacob touched the losties. Obviously they were all on flight 815,and as Jacob said to Jack “it just needed a little push” But he touched Kate, Sawyer and Jack before 815 and then Sayid and Hurley before 316. Any significance?

    Also i was thinking that the meeting between Ilana and Jacob happen after the beach scene we saw last night. She seemed to be the same age as we see her now, not younger. Also she is obviously very injured where she would end up with some sort of facial scars and she does not have any scars as of right now. Although they are speaking Russian to each other and that is where she meets up with Sayid. Did jacob heal her so that she would help and get Sayid to the island?

    Richard says he does not age because of Jacob. I’m thinking maybe Jacob took RA into the temple as RA did little injured Ben and this is what causes him not to age. Maybe Ben will not age now.

  190. Jimmy63 says:

    I checked on Lostpedia and found this:
    Noor Abed Jazeem, more commonly known as “Nadia”, was Sayid’s childhood friend and long-lost love. She was reunited with Sayid when he returned from the Island, and married him. However, she was murdered soon afterwards, apparently by someone working for Charles Widmore, prompting Sayid to work for Ben as an assassin.
    When did that happen?
    During her funeral, the coffin appears to show her name appears in Arabic as Noor Shamar.

    As for Roger. Ben was having a heart to heart with dad still on the fence about killing him.I would think Roger would have said something like I blamed you until the day you got shot by that other and that crazy chick who stole you out of the infirmary and Ididn’t know where you were and so on so forth Blah Bla

    No one in the DI seems to recall it

  191. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment="335265"]I was thinking when Jacob “died” that it was a “Lion, Witch, Wardrobe” moment – where Aslan “lets” the evil witch “kill” him, thinking she was now going to have free reign over Narnia (she also had to find a loophole in order to do it – getting Edmond to be a traitor) but REALLY she was releasing the “deeper magic” – making Aslan more powerful than ever, and overcoming death. With all the CS Lewis references, I think this will come into play here. Jacob will not stay dead. “Esau” has FAKED an overcoming of death all this time, but Jacob will do it for real.[/quote]
    ======================
    Love it. Many times over. Jacob knew Esau would find a way and he was prepared. He’ll come back stronger – I’m with you!! Excellent catch and elaboration on the Lewis element.

  192. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="335311"][quote comment="335308"]The finale sucked. Apt punctuation for a season that devolved into a one-dimensional, cookie-cutter commercial machine. No finesse, no subtlety, no explanations for anything and no new reasons to care. Welcome Jacob, the island fairy crossing time and space to connect the dots? The Locke twins, dead or alive? Faux epic boxing (all blood, no bruises. Make-up budget must’ve been cut right after they dumped the good writers). Juliet getting wrapped in a chain and sucked down the magnet hole is a total metaphor for how this show treated its audience this year. Exploited to the end — we’re still alive after that fall!? — and the only way out is to blow the whole thing up. I’m out of this cult. Call me when they’re reunited on “Celebrity Hospice.”[/quote]

    Did we watch the same show?

    Well don’t let the door hit you in the A$$ on the way out of the cult. We’ll stay here and drink our Kool-Aid without you.

    SHEESH.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ***************
    well said! I thought this was a site to talk about the show…not complain. No one is making you watch it against your will, so push the off button on the remote and all will be well with the world…or will it…failing to push button causes great purple light…life as you know it will change!

  193. jaime says:

    If Locke was in the metal box all along then why was Ilana & crew so nonchalant about seeing him standing in the ocean? And how did Ilana/Bram know the significance of Locke’s dead body? Jacob?

  194. Mia says:

    All I have to say is I’m happy there is a new hottie on the show … Jack, Sawyer, and now…Jacob! And that’s definately not the end of him.

  195. ShelbyDee says:

    [quote comment="335290"][quote comment="335273"]….. in this episode we see that Rose and Bernard get it right. There may be hope for man yet.[/quote]
    ============
    Could this be the reason for making Rose and Bernard the Adam and Eve? Works for me!

  196. Jeremy says:

    Jacob wanted Ben to stab him. He did nothing to prevent it only provoke it by his reply to ben. Also if that nuke went off then Jacob never gets stabbed anyway……..Mind games

  197. Kaiservon says:

    Just thinking back about this some more. Jack was transporting his fathers dead body on the airplane on 815. Esau was reincarnating as Christian (not sure how) to have some dirty work done for him. When Locke was killed, faradays mother told Jack to put something of his fathers on Locke (Christians shoes). So when 316 came back, Esau was able to reincarnate as Locke.

  198. jaime says:

    Were Alex, Yemi or Christians bodies burried? Could this be the reason for having to bury bodies so they are not “taken over”

  199. renato says:

    D&C Said this episode was going to be a “touching” episode, im assuming that was in reference to the fact that jacob touched every person he seen in the flashbacks physically, i agree what jack did with the bomb that he was not in fact changing history but indeed following history, i think theres also significance to what jacob said to each klostie in the flashbacks, he told kate not to steal anymore but yet she became a criminal later on in life, he told jack all the vending machine needed was an extra push, which signifies that he shouldnt give up so easily and keep pushing into what he believes in, his re-assurance to john that everything will be alright, im not sure exactly what the significance to sawyer was,to jin and sun was to never take each other for granted and now there apart from eachother, what i wonder is how jacob can easily get off the island…im sure from this episode we find out that rose and bernard are “Adam & Eve”…did anybody notice the significance of the break in the sand surrounding “jacobs(enemy)” cabin??

  200. CLIFF FROM CHICAGO says:

    Does anyone think that there is a possibility of Jacob being reincarnated in the body of dead Locke outside the foot statue that Ilana and co. brought there. Also, for whomever said that Locke is not an evil person, did he not persuade Sawyer to go with him to the Black Rock and kill the REAL Sawyer by locking the two in their together. Even if the Locke that brought Ben inside with him to kill Jacob was possessed by the guy from the beach, this would be the second time that Locke has convinced someone else to kill for him. Just thought it was interesting. Can’t wait till 2010!

  201. Shadow says:

    I’m trying to think of the bigger picture here, and if it has been said before on other threads by some, then I’m sorry.
    I posted my husband’s theory in #133, and although he may not be totally right, I think the overall thought is correct. Jacob and “Esau” have been using humans to test out some theory. Its ALL and experiment. Remember in the final scene, Ben is talking to Jacob and makes a reference to “lists”. Jacob has been making lists and recruiting people to the island for ages, hoping that some day one of these groups will get it right. Esau said in the beginning that they always come but the result is always the same. Maybe the Losties are the group that will get it right. Jacob and Esau have special powers, their consciousness can occupy other bodies, they don’t seem to age, Jacob made RA not age…
    Which begs the question, who are they and where are they from?
    Anyway, I’m just trying to think the big picture, what this story is all about. any thoughts?

  202. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="335298"]When Desmond used the failsafe, there was a big flash of white light, and Desmond wakes up naked in the jungle.
    Does anyone think that we will get to see Juliet wake up naked in the jungle?[/quote]

    If the clocks are running in San Dimas we will!

    But, I think those events aren’t just similar, they are the SAME thing, and so, I believe that Juliette just changed time (for very petty, shallow, human reasons as was wished by the black shirt guy)

    I know it has been guessed before that the fail safe key was connected to the bomb, so whatever happened when Desmond turned the key in 2004, will instead happen now in 1977… (I think!?)

    This ep was definately a head wrecker

    To me, the real wild card here is Ben. He still went and turned the wheel in the first place, when it was in fact supposed to be Locke who turned the wheel… that event is what made all of the other dots fall into line and create this loophole. Ben is the loophole.

    He’s also off his frigggen black rock.

  203. nelson says:

    so Esau is the cloud monster?

  204. ShelbyDee says:

    I suspect Claire is a goner. I’ll bet we see her – incarnated or impersonated by Esau – manipulating Kate next season. Now that I reflect on the creepy scene with her and Christian in the cabin talking to Locke I’m thinking she is with the Esau/Christian/Smokey character. The visitation to Kate about keeping Aaron off the island also makes sense.

  205. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335362"]I suspect Claire is a goner. I’ll bet we see her – incarnated or impersonated by Esau – manipulating Kate next season. Now that I reflect on the creepy scene with her and Christian in the cabin talking to Locke I’m thinking she is with the Esau/Christian/Smokey character. The visitation to Kate about keeping Aaron off the island also makes sense.[/quote]
    ____________________
    So wait…are you saying that maybe “esau” can be 3 different “entities” at once?

  206. Ben says:

    Hey I was wondering if anyone noticed the connection of the flash back with the two girls. The one girls name was Juliette and the other was Kate. The Kate girl was the same one that Jacob helped in the store. That was a Kate flashback but the flashback I talked about in the beginning was Juliette’s flashback. At the end of Juliette’s flashback, the parents are saying they are getting a divorce and we already know that this happened to Kate’s parents. Does this mean that they are sisters? or at least step sisters?

    Why isnt anyone talking about this?

  207. Linearxs says:

    I believe Aaron is Jacob.

  208. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335364"]Hey I was wondering if anyone noticed the connection of the flash back with the two girls. The one girls name was Juliette and the other was Kate. The Kate girl was the same one that Jacob helped in the store. That was a Kate flashback but the flashback I talked about in the beginning was Juliette’s flashback. At the end of Juliette’s flashback, the parents are saying they are getting a divorce and we already know that this happened to Kate’s parents. Does this mean that they are sisters? or at least step sisters?

    Why isnt anyone talking about this?[/quote]

    You are mistaken.

    The first is a flashback to young Kate (Katie) Austen, presumably with her friend Tommy (he has the airplane!).

    The flashback with the TWO little girls are to young Juliet and her sister Rachel. Not the same actress at all.

    Phenomenal casting of little Kate. Not-so-go with little Juliet and little Rachel.

    : ) P

  209. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="335363"][quote comment="335362"]I suspect Claire is a goner. I’ll bet we see her – incarnated or impersonated by Esau – manipulating Kate next season. Now that I reflect on the creepy scene with her and Christian in the cabin talking to Locke I’m thinking she is with the Esau/Christian/Smokey character. The visitation to Kate about keeping Aaron off the island also makes sense.[/quote]
    ____________________
    So wait…are you saying that maybe “esau” can be 3 different “entities” at once?[/quote]
    *******************************

    I’d say thats possible. Its a cloud of smoke, it can be whatever it wants to be… I keep seeing a lot of people say that he “took over Lockes body.” but he didn’t take over his body. Lockes body was in the crate.

  210. Jimmy63 says:

    my bad about nadia Iwas wrong.Iraq was Sayid & Ben. Sayid should stay away from the ladies anyway they seem to wind up dead.
    But hasn’t the timeline changed for the DI. As radical as Radzinsky is you wouldn’t you agree Ben and Roger would be removed from the DI

  211. wallyp says:

    Anybody else wanna theorize that Bernard found the islands box of fake beards?

  212. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335368"][quote comment="335363"][quote comment="335362"]I suspect Claire is a goner. I’ll bet we see her – incarnated or impersonated by Esau – manipulating Kate next season. Now that I reflect on the creepy scene with her and Christian in the cabin talking to Locke I’m thinking she is with the Esau/Christian/Smokey character. The visitation to Kate about keeping Aaron off the island also makes sense.[/quote]
    ____________________
    So wait…are you saying that maybe “esau” can be 3 different “entities” at once?[/quote]
    *******************************

    I’d say thats possible. Its a cloud of smoke, it can be whatever it wants to be… I keep seeing a lot of people say that he “took over Lockes body.”

    but he didn’t take over his body. Lockes body was in the crate.[/quote]
    _______________

    interesting…i’ll consider it only because anything is possible hahahaha

    but…i’m wondering about the Flocke’s (a friend of mine used this for the “fake” “bad” “esau” locke) consciousness…if anyone recalls, did Flocke ever mention anything about his past? He did say he remembers Ben killing, more specifically strangling him….what i’m wondering while Esau takes on Locke’s APPEARANCE does he have the ability to take on his consciousness….

    help!!! :)

  213. Sam says:

    I don’t know if anyone else feels this way but it bothers me that they decide to blow up the hatch because then that means they all die. And since it was their present that means they die and that’s it. Or am I wrong? Are things really going to change because they changed the “past”? Is their plane really going to land in L.A. 30 years from now? And what happens to the other Losties that are in the present??? THAT’S my question…

  214. Sam says:

    I don’t know if anyone else feels this way but it bothers me that they decide to blow up the hatch because then that means they all die. And since it was their present that means they die and that’s it. Or am I wrong? Are things really going to change because they changed the “past”? Is their plane really going to land in L.A. 30 years from now? And what happens to the other Losties that are in the present??? THAT’S my question…

  215. The Wrz says:

    [quote comment="335368"][quote comment="335363"][quote comment="335362"]I suspect Claire is a goner. I’ll bet we see her – incarnated or impersonated by Esau – manipulating Kate next season. Now that I reflect on the creepy scene with her and Christian in the cabin talking to Locke I’m thinking she is with the Esau/Christian/Smokey character. The visitation to Kate about keeping Aaron off the island also makes sense.[/quote]
    ____________________
    So wait…are you saying that maybe “esau” can be 3 different “entities” at once?[/quote]
    *******************************

    I’d say thats possible. Its a cloud of smoke, it can be whatever it wants to be… I keep seeing a lot of people say that he “took over Lockes body.”

    but he didn’t take over his body. Lockes body was in the crate.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~

    How about the guy using a Locke Puppet?

  216. LostDamery says:

    Ok the Standard, WOW, then lets get on with this …
    Just adding my 2 cents:
    1) LOCKE at first I thought Locke was actually a shape shifter or someone controlling him from within, but later I thought that just as previously he had seen himself via time travel this could just be an overlap of him coming back again through the loophole while his body is in the cargo hold.
    2) now I am sure that adam and eve in the cave are actually Bernard and Rose after being given the black and white rock from Jacob and his enemy?
    ~so much for my theory of ageless Apes controlling the island from below.

  217. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335375"][quote comment="335368"][quote comment="335363"][quote comment="335362"]I suspect Claire is a goner. I’ll bet we see her – incarnated or impersonated by Esau – manipulating Kate next season. Now that I reflect on the creepy scene with her and Christian in the cabin talking to Locke I’m thinking she is with the Esau/Christian/Smokey character. The visitation to Kate about keeping Aaron off the island also makes sense.[/quote]
    ____________________
    So wait…are you saying that maybe “esau” can be 3 different “entities” at once?[/quote]
    *******************************

    I’d say thats possible. Its a cloud of smoke, it can be whatever it wants to be… I keep seeing a lot of people say that he “took over Lockes body.”

    but he didn’t take over his body. Lockes body was in the crate.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~

    How about the guy using a Locke Puppet?[/quote]

    ____________________

    But if that were the case wouldn’t he just use his body which was in fact in the crate?

    Please see post #212

  218. FrankS says:

    Tremendous finale and even better comments!

    general thoughts:
    Jacob and guy at beach:
    so many metaphors apply.
    Jacob – man of faith; other guy man of science
    Jacob – good; other guy – evil
    free will vs determinism
    progress vs status quo

    parallels – Charles Widmore and Ben (scene from, i think, confirmed dead) when Ben goes to Charles’ penthouse. Charles says “did you come here to kill me?” Ben says “we both know i can’t do that.” No loophole found yet.

    Jacob touched Kate’s nose and said something like “you’re going to be good.” I was thinking that perhaps when Jacob visited Kate, Sawyer, etc., that this was flashforward – to a different timeline. For instance, Jacob says at the beginning “there is only one end. all the rest is just progress.” Perhaps kate became a little bit more “good” this time around (in the inherent loop) but Jacob goes and tells her “you’ll be good.” Maybe in the original timeline, the store owner called kate’s mom, father beat her, etc. But because Jacob intervened, kate never became spiteful, never killed stepfather, was “good.”

    overall, i think this is an infinite loop. Jacob gets different people to the island and each time, they come closer to “the end” which is good because the loop ends. he believes eventually the loop will be broken by FREE WILL (choices people make). He has faith in man. He tinkers with different people.

    I am curious to know how Jacob travels off the island (thinking he uses donkey wheel) but how does he come back?

    There are about 200,000 questions to be answered next season.

  219. Sam says:

    [quote comment="335357"]…im sure from this episode we find out that rose and bernard are “Adam & Eve”…[/quote]

    that’s what i’ve been saying!!! i have always thought they were adam and eve!

  220. Sam says:

    I’ve been saying that rose and bernard are going to be adam and eve this whole time!!!

    also, i love how everyone already assumes that he is Esau!! that’s what i thought at first but i am not so sure…

  221. Sam says:

    I’ve been saying that rose and bernard are going to be adam and eve this whole time!!!

    also, i love how everyone already assumes that he is Esau!! that’s what i thought at first but i am not so sure…

  222. Lew says:

    This is all very interesting. What if, however, this was all part of a medical/psychological experiment? That is, the primary characters are a deep hypnotic state in an effort to help them all overcome something or someone they “lost.” It’s not likely the “answer” but I feel better about all of the craziness making sense under this theory. And, besides, with all this madness that the suriviors have gone through, how come no one has committed suicide?

  223. SimonSayz says:

    I still believe in WHH and that the hatch will be build on the swan station. Maybe the H-bomb did neutralize a part of the magnetic pocket but every 108 minutes, some energy must be used for some kind of stabilization.

    I don’t think we saw the end of Juliette. The scene when Desmond turned the key is way too similar to what we saw in the last episode and he didn’t die. The only thing that is different is the colour of the flashes (purple for Desmond and white for Juliette) but it’s a minor thing, if minor details without consequences still exist in this show ;)

  224. ericfay81 says:

    Richard says he saw them all die (referring to Jack, Kate, Hurley, Jin, etc.)

    Richard was not at the site where the H-bomb was “detonated”

    Chang WAS there, and obviously did not die because he went on to make the videos. Razinsky too since he was in the hatch.

    Unless the bomb going off changed the future…

  225. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335171"][quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Hmmm could be. I can’t remember my Hanso history – didn’t the original Hanso come to the island on the Black Rock? And I assumed that ship we saw in the opening scene was the Black Rock. So I wonder if Hanso hasn’t arrived on the island yet?[/quote]

    ***I just realized that it couldn’t of been the black rock at sea. There’s only one way that ship gets imbeded into the island and that would be turning fdw so that the island surfaces under the ship.

    I saw that on lostpedia and couldn’t think of a better explanation.
    [quote comment="335285"][quote comment="335187"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    Keamy since he broke the rules and killed Alex.

    Widmore (post DHARMA since he wasn’t orig. DHARMA

    The Walt apparitions, Libby apparitions, Claire apparitions, etc., etc.

    Christian (post death).

    I believe all of this because of his comment “You have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here”.[/quote]

    *****
    That one went over my head Hammer?
    I don’t understand why people want to personify smokey. Locke is not Dead and neither is Dan

  226. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335382"]This is all very interesting. What if, however, this was all part of a medical/psychological experiment? That is, the primary characters are a deep hypnotic state in an effort to help them all overcome something or someone they “lost.” It’s not likely the “answer” but I feel better about all of the craziness making sense under this theory. And, besides, with all this madness that the suriviors have gone through, how come no one has committed suicide?[/quote]
    _______________________
    Wouldn’t that be like the Matrix?

    Also, a couple have TRIED to commit suicide but the “island wouldn’t let them” (i.e. Michael and the gun never goes off and Jack when he tries to jump off the bridge but a car accident happens before he jumps)

  227. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335171"][quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Hmmm could be. I can’t remember my Hanso history – didn’t the original Hanso come to the island on the Black Rock? And I assumed that ship we saw in the opening scene was the Black Rock. So I wonder if Hanso hasn’t arrived on the island yet?[/quote]

    ***I just realized that it couldn’t of been the black rock at sea. There’s only one way that ship gets imbeded into the island and that would be turning fdw so that the island surfaces under the ship.

    I saw that on lostpedia and couldn’t think of a better explanation.
    [quote comment="335285"][quote comment="335187"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    Keamy since he broke the rules and killed Alex.

    Widmore (post DHARMA since he wasn’t orig. DHARMA

    The Walt apparitions, Libby apparitions, Claire apparitions, etc., etc.

    Christian (post death).

    I believe all of this because of his comment “You have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here”.[/quote]

    *****
    That one went over my head Hammer?
    I don’t understand why people want to personify smokey. Locke is not Dead and neither is Dan

    [quote comment="335370"]Anybody else wanna theorize that Bernard found the islands box of fake beards?[/quote]

    ******
    Nice!!! I was getting a big dead vide from them

  228. The Wrz says:

    [quote comment="335378"]Tremendous finale and even better comments!

    general thoughts:
    Jacob and guy at beach:
    so many metaphors apply.
    Jacob – man of faith; other guy man of science
    Jacob – good; other guy – evil
    free will vs determinism
    progress vs status quo

    parallels – Charles Widmore and Ben (scene from, i think, confirmed dead) when Ben goes to Charles’ penthouse. Charles says “did you come here to kill me?” Ben says “we both know i can’t do that.” No loophole found yet.

    Jacob touched Kate’s nose and said something like “you’re going to be good.” I was thinking that perhaps when Jacob visited Kate, Sawyer, etc., that this was flashforward – to a different timeline. For instance, Jacob says at the beginning “there is only one end. all the rest is just progress.” Perhaps kate became a little bit more “good” this time around (in the inherent loop) but Jacob goes and tells her “you’ll be good.” Maybe in the original timeline, the store owner called kate’s mom, father beat her, etc. But because Jacob intervened, kate never became spiteful, never killed stepfather, was “good.”

    overall, i think this is an infinite loop. Jacob gets different people to the island and each time, they come closer to “the end” which is good because the loop ends. he believes eventually the loop will be broken by FREE WILL (choices people make). He has faith in man. He tinkers with different people.

    I am curious to know how Jacob travels off the island (thinking he uses donkey wheel) but how does he come back?

    There are about 200,000 questions to be answered next season.[/quote]

    ~~~~~~
    My thoughts exactly. It is more about free will vs destiny which can be more easily explained through Christian(faith not jack’s dad) symbolism but I don’t believe it is God vs Satan as some have suggested.

    Do you think the time loop is the same people over and over again or do they get one shot to choose the right path and then Jacob goes and selects a new cast of characters?

  229. Amber says:

    Jacob is so HOT!

  230. kindly says:

    Did anyone else think of Rose and Bernard’s “love shack” when they saw Jacob’s cabin?

  231. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335386"][quote comment="335171"][quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Hmmm could be. I can’t remember my Hanso history – didn’t the original Hanso come to the island on the Black Rock? And I assumed that ship we saw in the opening scene was the Black Rock. So I wonder if Hanso hasn’t arrived on the island yet?[/quote]

    ***I just realized that it couldn’t of been the black rock at sea. There’s only one way that ship gets imbeded into the island and that would be turning fdw so that the island surfaces under the ship.

    I saw that on lostpedia and couldn’t think of a better explanation.
    [quote comment="335285"][quote

    I was almost thinking the same thing. The BR sets sail 1845. The BR journal was discovered amoungst pirates artifacts 1852. Could it be that the BR was already on the island while Jacob and his enemy were sitting on the beach and the ship they were looking at was a pirate/other ship?

  232. PJSander says:

    So I have been thinking about the white flash. MAYBE our living LOSTies flash forward (to 2007 or elsewhere) and the remaining people on the island (Chang, Radzinsky) flash BACK – even just a few hours to when Daniel was still alive! Maybe then Chang and Daniel make the (Comic-con) video, KNOWING what will happen very shortly.

    Daniel may or may not still die, but perhaps Chang and Radzinsky know what will happen and work to minimize the damage and thus we return to our “previously scheduled future” with the cemented hatch, button pushing, new Chang videos, etc. So Miles will be right, this *was* the incident.

    I know D&C said that the comic-con video wasn’t canon. But, they’ve said LOTS of things to throw us off.

    : ) P

  233. jaime says:

    oooops….
    What i was trying to say in response to MacGyver quote was :

    I was almost thinking the same thing. The BR sets sail 1845. The BR journal was discovered amoungst pirates artifacts 1852. Could it be that the BR was already on the island while Jacob and his enemy were sitting on the beach and the ship they were looking at was a pirate/other ship?

  234. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335391"][quote comment="335386"][quote comment="335171"][quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Hmmm could be. I can’t remember my Hanso history – didn’t the original Hanso come to the island on the Black Rock? And I assumed that ship we saw in the opening scene was the Black Rock. So I wonder if Hanso hasn’t arrived on the island yet?[/quote]

    ***I just realized that it couldn’t of been the black rock at sea. There’s only one way that ship gets imbeded into the island and that would be turning fdw so that the island surfaces under the ship.

    I saw that on lostpedia and couldn’t think of a better explanation.
    [quote comment="335285"][quote

    I was almost thinking the same thing. The BR sets sail 1845. The BR journal was discovered amoungst pirates artifacts 1852. Could it be that the BR was already on the island while Jacob and his enemy were sitting on the beach and the ship they were looking at was a pirate/other ship?[/quote]
    ******

    I think john’s been the reincarnated Hanso the whole time. I don’t rust illana or any of her people. And I definately think Jacob is the ‘evil’ one

  235. The Wrz says:

    [quote comment="335392"]So I have been thinking about the white flash. MAYBE our living LOSTies flash forward (to 2007 or elsewhere) and the remaining people on the island (Chang, Radzinsky) flash BACK – even just a few hours to when Daniel was still alive! Maybe then Chang and Daniel make the (Comic-con) video, KNOWING what will happen very shortly.

    Daniel may or may not still die, but perhaps Chang and Radzinsky know what will happen and work to minimize the damage and thus we return to our “previously scheduled future” with the cemented hatch, button pushing, new Chang videos, etc. So Miles will be right, this *was* the incident.

    I know D&C said that the comic-con video wasn’t canon. But, they’ve said LOTS of things to throw us off.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ~~~
    I think the white flash was symbolic of the transfer of power from Jacob to the new guy. We always fade to black at the end of the episode now he is dead and we get a fade to white

  236. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335392"]So I have been thinking about the white flash. MAYBE our living LOSTies flash forward (to 2007 or elsewhere) and the remaining people on the island (Chang, Radzinsky) flash BACK – even just a few hours to when Daniel was still alive! Maybe then Chang and Daniel make the (Comic-con) video, KNOWING what will happen very shortly.

    Daniel may or may not still die, but perhaps Chang and Radzinsky know what will happen and work to minimize the damage and thus we return to our “previously scheduled future” with the cemented hatch, button pushing, new Chang videos, etc. So Miles will be right, this *was* the incident.

    I know D&C said that the comic-con video wasn’t canon. But, they’ve said LOTS of things to throw us off.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ******
    I tried to tell you it was the incident!! ;-)

    I still can’t believe you don’t think the losties died last night……LOL. I thought it was clear as day. That’s the only reasoning I saw for the flashes with Jacob.

    I like this theory for chang and radzinsky. anyone underground should be ok.

  237. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335392"]So I have been thinking about the white flash. MAYBE our living LOSTies flash forward (to 2007 or elsewhere) and the remaining people on the island (Chang, Radzinsky) flash BACK – even just a few hours to when Daniel was still alive! Maybe then Chang and Daniel make the (Comic-con) video, KNOWING what will happen very shortly.

    Daniel may or may not still die, but perhaps Chang and Radzinsky know what will happen and work to minimize the damage and thus we return to our “previously scheduled future” with the cemented hatch, button pushing, new Chang videos, etc. So Miles will be right, this *was* the incident.

    I know D&C said that the comic-con video wasn’t canon. But, they’ve said LOTS of things to throw us off.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ******
    Maybe they haven’t filmed it yet. Dan will be back.

  238. pete says:

    does anyone remember all the hype of good twin bad twin without the payoff

  239. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335399"]does anyone remember all the hype of good twin bad twin without the payoff[/quote]

    Yeah.

    I posted about it a couple of weeks ago, but I guess not many people read it. I posted the same thing a couple of months ago on the Bad Twin thread.

    http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/bad-twin-book-review

    Let me know if you post there and I will read it.

    : ) P

  240. secretgarden says:

    And maybe Sawyer never finishes writing that letter to the real Sawyer.

    [quote comment="335378"]Tremendous finale and even better comments!

    general thoughts:
    Jacob and guy at beach:
    so many metaphors apply.
    Jacob – man of faith; other guy man of science
    Jacob – good; other guy – evil
    free will vs determinism
    progress vs status quo

    parallels – Charles Widmore and Ben (scene from, i think, confirmed dead) when Ben goes to Charles’ penthouse. Charles says “did you come here to kill me?” Ben says “we both know i can’t do that.” No loophole found yet.

    Jacob touched Kate’s nose and said something like “you’re going to be good.” I was thinking that perhaps when Jacob visited Kate, Sawyer, etc., that this was flashforward – to a different timeline. For instance, Jacob says at the beginning “there is only one end. all the rest is just progress.” Perhaps kate became a little bit more “good” this time around (in the inherent loop) but Jacob goes and tells her “you’ll be good.” Maybe in the original timeline, the store owner called kate’s mom, father beat her, etc. But because Jacob intervened, kate never became spiteful, never killed stepfather, was “good.”

    overall, i think this is an infinite loop. Jacob gets different people to the island and each time, they come closer to “the end” which is good because the loop ends. he believes eventually the loop will be broken by FREE WILL (choices people make). He has faith in man. He tinkers with different people.

    I am curious to know how Jacob travels off the island (thinking he uses donkey wheel) but how does he come back?

    There are about 200,000 questions to be answered next season.[/quote]

  241. Mia says:

    Sam, IF the Losties do die in 1977, yes it is it for the “current” them. However, remember the little Losties are still around and they will grow up and go Flight 815 and safely land. Unless something else happens to prevent that…

  242. Mal says:

    Excellent episode. The first half was great… it flew through with minimal commercial interruptions and the storyline was sublime. Second half, those commercials just clawed their way in there.

    Anyhoo.
    1. Is it possible that Locke never “changed” sides? If the man on the beach… we’ll call him “Esau” to make things easier… if Esau is the smoke monster (or is related in some way…) he visited Locke one of his first days on the Island. From that moment on, Locke was a bit more privee than the other castaways.

    Also, he’s always been shifty, unpredictable, and a downright weird character. I never quite knew what to think of him… and now I’m starting to think that he’s always been in cahoots with Esau. He probably hasn’t always known that Esau’s agenda was dark… but even so, they’ve been building a relationship.

    2. Widmore, Eloise, and now Jack, also must be in cahoots with team Esau (in a manner of speaking). Widmore helps Locke get out of Tunisia, and Eloise convinces Jack that he must help John. Jack likely is not aware that Locke is potentially the devil… but he’s been hoodwinked.

    3. It’s very possible that Jacob will recover from this and come back stronger.. everyone has been citing Narnia as an example of this, but what about Gandolf in Lord of the Rings? He “dies” and is transformed into a more powerful wizard.

    Also, Jacob is living in some sort of cavern working on his loom… isn’t that traditionally a punishment in literature? Perhaps he’s stuck in some half existence with only his loom to help him pass the time.

    4. If Jacob lives in the statue, why did Ilana look for him in the cabin? She seems to know what’s up.

    5. Maybe the H-Bomb explosion IS the incident. We’ve all been speculating that the failsafe key in the Swan is the H-Bomb, meaning if the H-bomb is exhausted in 1977 the future MUST be changed, but do we know for sure that the failsafe is the H-Bomb? Maybe we do.. I don’t remember specifically.

    6. Why would Jacob visit the castaways in their pre-island days if they are going to continue to harm him? Specifically John? That doesn’t make very much sense. That makes me think that Jacob will come back more powerful, and that he knew what he was doing. Maybe Esau was in on it as well. Maybe he’s trying to help Jacob.

    7. Maybe, if the H-Bomb does change the course of time, John Locke never eaches the island and is not a threat to Jacob.

    8. Why is John Locke sometimes referred to as Jeramny Benthlam? Does he have a twin? (That would change things…)

  243. jaime says:

    Here is something that struck me that i havent read here yet. When Bernard asked Juliet if she was sure she didnt want to stay for tea Juliet kind of touched her stomach and said no. I thought immediately that she was pregnant and that Bernard could tell. Did anyone else think that from the exchange?

  244. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335404"]8. Why is John Locke sometimes referred to as Jeramny Benthlam? Does he have a twin? (That would change things…)[/quote]

    That is the pseudonym that Widmore gave Locke to use while he was trying to convince the O6 to go back.

    : ) P

  245. Mal says:

    As for the Hanso Esau connection.. which might be… Widmore won the Hanso journal at the auction. So he knows about how Hanso (Esau) is scheming to find that loophole…

    Also, why do people assume that Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve? I do not understand this. Those bones could belong to anyone. They’ve likely been there for millennia… I understand that time travel is sometimes a hapless thing on that island, but they seem to time travel in line with the other 815 survivors. Sooo… if they are Adam and Eve, then the centuries-old bones of 815 survivors must also be scattered on the island in 2004.

  246. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335406"][quote comment="335404"]8. Why is John Locke sometimes referred to as Jeramny Benthlam? Does he have a twin? (That would change things…)[/quote]

    That is the pseudonym that Widmore gave Locke to use while he was trying to convince the O6 to go back.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Ahhh… thank you PJ! You always seem to have the answers

  247. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335405"]Here is something that struck me that i havent read here yet. When Bernard asked Juliet if she was sure she didnt want to stay for tea Juliet kind of touched her stomach and said no. I thought immediately that she was pregnant and that Bernard could tell. Did anyone else think that from the exchange?[/quote]

    Totally.

    So there was speculation that Eloise was pregnant and she was. Now there is speculation that Juliet (and a couple of weeks ago, Kate) are pregnant.

    : ) P

  248. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335405"]Here is something that struck me that i havent read here yet. When Bernard asked Juliet if she was sure she didnt want to stay for tea Juliet kind of touched her stomach and said no. I thought immediately that she was pregnant and that Bernard could tell. Did anyone else think that from the exchange?[/quote]

    ____________

    Yes! My sister thought that right away….I have theories on this that I’m working on…

  249. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335404"]

    3. It’s very possible that Jacob will recover from this and come back stronger.. everyone has been citing Narnia as an example of this, but what about Gandolf in Lord of the Rings? He “dies” and is transformed into a more powerful wizard.

    4. If Jacob lives in the statue, why did Ilana look for him in the cabin? She seems to know what’s up.

    8. Why is John Locke sometimes referred to as Jeramny Benthlam? Does he have a twin? (That would change things…)
    [/quote]
    *********************************************
    3. I fully believe that Jacob is not dead. D&C stated that he couldnt be harmed in the “fleshly sense

    4. I think that they were looking for Jacob’s enemy.

    8. Jeremy Bentham was Locke’s alias when he was off island. Micheal was Kevin jJohnson

  250. Terrivic says:

    [quote comment="335194"]Okay, in the flashback to Juliet’s childhood, it looked an awful lot like it was taking place in the present time period. It certainly didn’t look like late 70s early 80s. The way the characters were dressed, their hair styles, the decor in the room. I just thought it was weird.[/quote]

    my wife noticed the same thing. we re-watched that scene looking for more clues.

  251. LICU says:

    I also think Juliette is pregnant…and Bernard knew it.
    I just love the significance of Jacob weaving! with threads he has spun himself (“it takes longer when you spin your own thread”)….making a tapestry of life, weaving various strands together..and, additionally, the “loophole…” not a good thing when weaving!
    I am also reminded of Groundhog day…over and over again until they get it right…which is, as in that movie, progress.
    Great finale. I am guessing they wake up on the plane and land in LA….

  252. Mal says:

    The Losties couldn’t have died from the H-Bomb explosion. Even if they have, some people have speculated that their mind travels to their future selves.. which would also be their past selves in a future time… That theory does not make sense to me. At all. Minds travel when there is a disruption with the invisible energy in the Island and surrounding… which is what happened to Desmond after the failsafe key and what happens to George on the freighter because they are on the limits of the island and he delved too deeply… as for Daniel and his subjects, he was messing with scientific experiments dealing with time travel. And Charlotte, she was subject to the FDW that was off its axis and sending the island all over the place, and she was more susceptible for some reason.

    These people didn’t die before their mind got unstuck in time. Why would minds travel in time after death? I just generally do not understand this theory.

  253. jaime says:

    Here is somethin gpretty cool that they aer doing over at Doc Arzt during hiatus. They are delving into Lost from ep 1-the season 5 finale. Each week/month you watch X ep. and then chat about it. Hey it might help with your withdrawals :)

    http://www.docarzt.com/lost/lost-news/rewatching-lost-spend-your-summer-with-docarzt-and-friends/

  254. The Wrz says:

    [quote comment="335412"][quote comment="335404"]

    3. It’s very possible that Jacob will recover from this and come back stronger.. everyone has been citing Narnia as an example of this, but what about Gandolf in Lord of the Rings? He “dies” and is transformed into a more powerful wizard.

    4. If Jacob lives in the statue, why did Ilana look for him in the cabin? She seems to know what’s up.

    8. Why is John Locke sometimes referred to as Jeramny Benthlam? Does he have a twin? (That would change things…)
    [/quote]
    *********************************************
    3. I fully believe that Jacob is not dead. D&C stated that he couldnt be harmed in the “fleshly sense

    4. I think that they were looking for Jacob’s enemy.

    8. Jeremy Bentham was Locke’s alias when he was off island. Micheal was Kevin jJohnson[/quote]
    ~~~~~
    Guessing that Jacob gets banished to the cabin, as Esau has been, until someone comes along to break the ash circle and release him and help him find a loophole

  255. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335410"][quote comment="335405"]Here is something that struck me that i havent read here yet. When Bernard asked Juliet if she was sure she didnt want to stay for tea Juliet kind of touched her stomach and said no. I thought immediately that she was pregnant and that Bernard could tell. Did anyone else think that from the exchange?[/quote]

    Totally.

    So there was speculation that Eloise was pregnant and she was. Now there is speculation that Juliet (and a couple of weeks ago, Kate) are pregnant.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ***************************************
    Yes, exactly. Good i’m glad to see that someone else thought this as well. My friends thought i was crazy when i mentioned it last night.

  256. Mal says:

    Ooooh…. I like the idea of the infinite loop with Jacob visiting the same characters in subsequent lifetimes, trying for them to get it right each time around… (credit to FrankS and secretgarden.. bravo!)… Who is Ilana? Maybe the Ilana we see bandaged in the hospital is an Ilana from a few decades ago.. they were speaking Russian, were they not? Perhaps it was a war from a different era? WWII?

  257. szarondg says:

    I really like what Shadow said about her husbands alien theory. I would personally change that theory to gods (not God) instead of aliens if it were mine, but good stuff nonetheless.

    Anyway, I have a theory of my own. A few years ago I read the His Dark Materials Trilogy (Golden Compass, etc.), and after seeing this episode I began to wonder if this might be the direction the show was being taken. For those of you who haven’t read it, I’m sorry, but I won’t summarize the entire plot, but I will discuss the points of parallel (as I saw it).

    The first creature with conscience was an angel. Because this angel was the first, he told all others (people and angels) that followed him that he was God, and he was their creator. He asked them to worship him, and set up rules under the guise of doing what is best for goodness, but which defied logic and were actually designed to keep the other creatures of conscience in check and in the dark as to his true identity. A crusade (excuse the terminology) is led against the first angel in the name of truth and knowledge, but is seen by the believers as a campaign of evil.

    In case my parallels to the show aren’t apparent I’ll lay them out briefly. Jacob being the first angel. The man on the beach (“Evil Locke” as I’ve seen him called on here) is the leader of the crusade against the first angel.

    While I see the logic in what a lot of people have said about Jacob and the Biblical references, however I find it hard to believe (and this might upset more than a few people) that the creators of the show are advocating blind faith and obedience.

    This is just a first round, rough idea, but I’m open to any thoughts or criticisms.

  258. The Kath says:

    [quote comment="335421"][quote comment="335410"][quote comment="335405"]Here is something that struck me that i havent read here yet. When Bernard asked Juliet if she was sure she didnt want to stay for tea Juliet kind of touched her stomach and said no. I thought immediately that she was pregnant and that Bernard could tell. Did anyone else think that from the exchange?[/quote]

    Totally.

    So there was speculation that Eloise was pregnant and she was. Now there is speculation that Juliet (and a couple of weeks ago, Kate) are pregnant.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ***************************************
    Yes, exactly. Good i’m glad to see that someone else thought this as well. My friends thought i was crazy when i mentioned it last night.[/quote]

    ****************************************************

    You are on the money, I too mentioned the “she’s pregnant” thing and my friends agreed.

  259. kelli says:

    I haven’t finished reading the rest of the posts after Kaiservon…but it gave me an idea-Jack’s dad was coffinated (lol-not a real word) before they crashed, and until then everything was “fine” if you want to call it that. Part of Locke’s purpose, perhaps, was to point out the effects of having a dead body arrive in such a manner. In Locke’s case, to prove that “Locke” was not Locke. In Christian’s case, perhaps it was the loophole that started the entire thing? That a body had to be dead before arriving at the island and therefore not part of the time travel? Anyone?

  260. Jimmy63 says:

    Is Esau the person Locke sees in the cabin? Does Jacob somehow have him confined in the cabin with the circle of ash? As soon as Ilana/Bram notice a break in the circle she gets into defensive mode. The breaking of the circle allows Esau to escape and be free to find his loophole. Question is who broke the circle? Maybe Hurley accidently did when he freaked out at the cabin when he sees the eye through the hole.Thoughts

  261. shellonius funk says:

    LOVED it, but things that bug me:

    – why didn’t jacob, in the beginning, have an accent? they sounded VERY american. UNLESS HE’S FROM THE FUTURE, it doesn’t make sense.

    – why, in jack’s flashback, wasn’t he wearing that shitty wig?! you KNOW it was lying around the set.

    – also annoyed that jules’ parents’ home looked straight out of the 2000s, down to her mom’s old navy capris.

    – if that guitar is supposed to be charlies, then they should’ve used an ovation case…much rounder body/back. if not, no worries.

    the jack wig thing may go along with alternate timeline theories. i also, along with some of you on here, think that jacob’s visits were future flashes/alternate times. he’s trying to change things. the new/paralel?/alternate timeline hurts my brain, but it’s starting to make sense if you look at the details. especially with the dharma barracks and the fact that there were still dharma pics on the walls after all this time.

  262. Miraks says:

    I love this show!!!

    1. Still firmly behind Juliette being one of the good guys- not evil in any way. I thnk last night that was made even more obvious.

    2. Walt told Locke that he saw him on the Island in a suit with people all around him that wanted to hurt him. He never said that Locke was alive at that point.

    3. Kate is still getting on my nerves- sorry had to be said.

  263. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335429"]Is Esau the person Locke sees in the cabin? Does Jacob somehow have him confined in the cabin with the circle of ash? As soon as Ilana/Bram notice a break in the circle she gets into defensive mode. The breaking of the circle allows Esau to escape and be free to find his loophole. Question is who broke the circle? Maybe Hurley accidently did when he freaked out at the cabin when he sees the eye through the hole.Thoughts[/quote]
    ********************************************
    I like your theory. The removal of ash looked awfully precise for an accident though.

  264. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335429"]Is Esau the person Locke sees in the cabin? Does Jacob somehow have him confined in the cabin with the circle of ash? As soon as Ilana/Bram notice a break in the circle she gets into defensive mode. The breaking of the circle allows Esau to escape and be free to find his loophole. Question is who broke the circle? Maybe Hurley accidently did when he freaked out at the cabin when he sees the eye through the hole.Thoughts[/quote]

    Well, if he was in the cabin, and he did get out, we know that Jacob must have left that embroidered picture of the Statue on the wall for Ilana to find. He sure does do a lot of weaving.

    Did anyone notice that the Ilana’s right-hand-man looked a lot like one of the guys who pulled up in the Dharma jeep right before the H-Bomb incident?

  265. Leslie says:

    Wow, what a great season finale. I could have expressed a comment/thought on preracticallty each post! So, rather than do that, I just wanted to ask a possibly un-important question: How did Radzinsky, Roger etc. know that Sayid shot Ben? Nobody was around to see it happen, and at this point Ben is still with the hostiles, right, so HE couldn’t have told anybody what happened. So I don’t get why everyone is yelling “that’s the guy that shot Ben” I don’t know how I’ll be able to wait until next year for more episodes.

  266. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335431"]LOVED it, but things that bug me:

    – why didn’t jacob, in the beginning, have an accent? they sounded VERY american. UNLESS HE’S FROM THE FUTURE, it doesn’t make sense.

    – why, in jack’s flashback, wasn’t he wearing that shitty wig?! you KNOW it was lying around the set.

    – also annoyed that jules’ parents’ home looked straight out of the 2000s, down to her mom’s old navy capris.

    – if that guitar is supposed to be charlies, then they should’ve used an ovation case…much rounder body/back. if not, no worries.

    the jack wig thing may go along with alternate timeline theories. i also, along with some of you on here, think that jacob’s visits were future flashes/alternate times. he’s trying to change things. the new/paralel?/alternate timeline hurts my brain, but it’s starting to make sense if you look at the details. especially with the dharma barracks and the fact that there were still dharma pics on the walls after all this time.[/quote]

    _____________________________

    Also to add to this…we saw Jacob visit Sayid and Hurley for the 316 flight…so maybe those flashes with him and our Lostie kids ARE flash forwards to AFTER everything happens…

    crazy how so many things can make sense…with the different timelines happening at the same time

  267. The Kath says:

    I think the “help” Jacob needed from Ilana was getting Sayid on the plane. He was never going to get on the plane so she went to his hotel, enticed, accosted him and got his ass on the plane.

  268. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335427"]
    You are on the money, I too mentioned the “she’s pregnant” thing and my friends agreed.[/quote]

    Truth is that I thought she might be pregnant when we first see Juliet and Sawyer together in their kitchen. (LaFleur S5E08)

    : ) P

  269. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335431"]LOVED it, but things that bug me:

    – why didn’t jacob, in the beginning, have an accent? they sounded VERY american. UNLESS HE’S FROM THE FUTURE, it doesn’t make sense.

    – why, in jack’s flashback, wasn’t he wearing that shitty wig?! you KNOW it was lying around the set.

    – also annoyed that jules’ parents’ home looked straight out of the 2000s, down to her mom’s old navy capris.

    – if that guitar is supposed to be charlies, then they should’ve used an ovation case…much rounder body/back. if not, no worries.

    the jack wig thing may go along with alternate timeline theories. i also, along with some of you on here, think that jacob’s visits were future flashes/alternate times. he’s trying to change things. the new/paralel?/alternate timeline hurts my brain, but it’s starting to make sense if you look at the details. especially with the dharma barracks and the fact that there were still dharma pics on the walls after all this time.[/quote]

    I too thought it was odd that Jacob and his “frenemy” spoke with clear American accents and in modern-day dialect. Maybe they’re traveling backward through time! The one “end” is the beginning! Probably not.

    Agreed, what is the deal with Jack’s hair? I don’t think it has much to do with alternate timelines… I just think it looks funky.

    I too found it very strange that Juliet’s parents looked so modern. That was odd.

  270. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335434"]Did anyone notice that the Ilana’s right-hand-man looked a lot like one of the guys who pulled up in the Dharma jeep right before the H-Bomb incident?[/quote]

    It was the same guy. His name is Bram.

    [quote comment="335435"] So, rather than do that, I just wanted to ask a possibly un-important question: How did Radzinsky, Roger etc. know that Sayid shot Ben? Nobody was around to see it happen, and at this point Ben is still with the hostiles, right, so HE couldn’t have told anybody what happened. So I don’t get why everyone is yelling “that’s the guy that shot Ben” I don’t know how I’ll be able to wait until next year for more episodes.[/quote]

    a) Sayid, the hostile, escaped that night
    b) who ELSE would have shot LilBen?
    c) Jin watched it happen, he may have been the one to tell the rest of the security staff. After the whaling Sayid gave him, I think he might have wanted a bit of revenge!

    I apologize if someone has already answered these by the time this posts. Some of the posts seem to be getting STUCK in TIME. LOL

    : ) P

  271. Mal says:

    When Jacob asks Ilana for help… where is she? It looks like a hospital tent in a battle zone. And are they speaking Russian? Where is she, and when is this conversation taking place? It is obviously months before she speaks to Sayid, because she is all better by then. But is she in a warzone? Which war?

  272. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335358"]Does anyone think that there is a possibility of Jacob being reincarnated in the body of dead Locke outside the foot statue that Ilana and co. brought there. Also, for whomever said that Locke is not an evil person, did he not persuade Sawyer to go with him to the Black Rock and kill the REAL Sawyer by locking the two in their together. Even if the Locke that brought Ben inside with him to kill Jacob was possessed by the guy from the beach, this would be the second time that Locke has convinced someone else to kill for him. Just thought it was interesting. Can’t wait till 2010![/quote]
    ************
    I don’t think Locke was ever bad. I instantly thought of the loophole as Ben killing John off Island. I ‘m not buying the whole Esau thing, I tried to go there but it can’t match up egyptian theogy. I’m thinking since the statue is not Annubis… then RA must be Anubis. Ben Did say he was the ‘advisor’ and Anubis is the advisor for the dead in the underworld. there’s just no way around this IMO. Eveyone has issues they need resolved in oder to cross into the afterlife. The magic box is litterally just that. It manifests exactly what a person needs to evolve. remember how Anthony Cooper got there. I think Magnus arrives on the black rock speaking latin with his hole crew. at this time RA was already there, He was always there because it’s his job. Magnus and RA are cool, but tells Jacob F-off. He dies….or maybe Concscious tt, Either way his mind ends up in John’s. Ra suspects this and we get his conversation with Jack last night, and reincarnation test for John. The items he picked all point to him being Magnus..even when he failed by picking the knife. RA knew who he was the whole time, but John didn’t. Why do you think he told john to die in the first place.Seems likee the others are obviously waiting for Magnus to return. Smoke monster is not anyone IMO, but a security system that That judges a person, then kills then if they are not worthy to riencarnate. The door in Bens house Translates to sumoning protection, ie the smoke monster. The glyphs in the temple translate to a spell from the BOOK OF THE DEAD that gives the deceased control over some of there of there physical possesions. Sounds to me like this temple is where one is judged, and riencarnated. Makes sense out of why Ben rushed into judgement….He admits to not knowing whats gonna happen…and could very well die. I have this feeling that Jacob is the bad one. He’s an ass for ignoring Ben, and I never liked his whole List business. Jacob’s flash backs with the kids take place in the past. I can only say he visited to make sure they don’t die before they get back on 815 That’s the big picture for me, that along with everything I posted in ‘a theory on dying’.

  273. Miraks says:

    Ok, so here it goes. To me every season reveals a bigger part of the overall picture. We started focused on an eye, and every season the camera (so to speak) zooms out and we see more of what is really going on. It seems like there is an old conflict going on between Jacob and his nemesis. I guess you could call it good vs. evil, god vs. satan, or free will vs. destiny, but I think it’s more of a ying/ yang idea.
    Jacob and his nemesis (I think he IS Smokie) have been on the Island trapped in some kind of loop, where Jacob can not die, which obviously greatly frustrates Mr. Black. They are playing (in a metaphorical sense) a chess game, using people as their chess pieces, manipulating them or letting them make their own moves. Inly if one of them “wins” can he get rid of the other person (maybe). Our Losties, the Dharma people, the others, etc. are all game pieces in this game. Some have been used more that others.
    Locke- He was used by Mr. Black and manipulated all along. I don’t think Locke was ever really special. The only reason RA thought so, was because Locke himself had told him- and badly wanted to believe it himself. But all along he was played by Mr. Black ( in the form of Smokie, maybe even Walt at the pit, etc.). In the end he was killed and is dead. Dead is dead.
    Ben- I have declared myself in the Ben is not evil camp several seasons ago, and I think this will become clear next season. I think Ben is the one used the most by Mr. Black. He is manipulated by him (while Mr. Black is in Locke’s form) to doubt his own decisions, and eventually attack Jacob.

    To me that whole scene with Ben, (false) Locke and Jacob was like an Cain and Able thing. Ben saw it as Locke and he both having done what was asked of them, but only one being favored. Of course that was not true since the real Locke was dead (slain by Ben), but that is how Ben saw it and he reacted with anger. (I saw Jacob asking him “what about you” as asking- what decision will you make/ what action- refering to the free will idea).

  274. Miraks says:

    One more thing.
    I think we saw Jacob appearing in the Losties lives at the point where their lives changed in some big way.
    Kate- a point where she started ignoring the law.
    Sawyer- a point where his obsession with the real Sawyer began.
    Jack- a point where he should have accepted his dad’s help and stopped being such a perfectionist/ impatient/ paranoid.
    Sun and Jin- a point where their marriage had all the possibilities and could move forward in a positive way.
    Locke- a point where he should have been happy to be alive, and not start being bitter.
    Sayid- a point that led him to become a killer for Ben.
    Hurley- he was the exception. Maybe needed for more in the future.

  275. Lostfan says:

    I believe that Esau is Smokey and Dead Alex – but not Christian. If he were Christian – he would have killed Jacob years ago – or had someone like Jack do it.

    I agree with the post that says because the statue of fertility broke – that women were unable to give birth on the island.

    I also agree that Juliet changes history and they will land in LAX next year. My husband swears that it was Juliet’s eye in the teaser for the 2010 series.

    I believe that Jacob arranged for everyone to come to island because they NEEDED to change history to save him. Eloise helped this along because she didn’t want Dan to die. He didn’t kill Nadia, but saved Sayid because Sayid was essential in this mission.

    Esau definitely was living in the cabin, and good pre-death Locke thought he was speaking with Jacob at the time.

    Perhaps the major character to die was not Juliet at all – but Locke – or technically – Jacob because he has been a major character – though we have never met him.

    And – I too said out loud that there was no way Juliet’s parents were in the 70’s – they were way too modern and suburban.

    As for Bernard and Rose – I think the writers lost interest in their story and just threw them in the end to tie it all up so we would stop asking about them already.

    Also – about Smokey – if he really is Esau – then what did he do to Danielle’s team back in the day – they all seemed hypnotized.

  276. Miraks says:

    So when we first saw Jacob weaving I immediately thought of Penelope. Anyone else? I think she will end up playing a big role next season.

    Also, Illana talking to Jacob did not sound Russian to me. I would guess it was more like Croatian or Serbian?

  277. Tom says:

    In the Book of Genesis, Ben is the son of Jacob. The mother (Rachel) dies shortly after giving birth. Is it possible that Ben could actually be Jacob’s son? When Ben was in the hatch, Locke handed him the book “The Brothers Karamozov” which is about a son who kills his father.

  278. FrankS says:

    Wrz:
    I think the time loop has elements of both because Jacob said each time, there’s progress. So i think he’s “found” the right mix of people but they have little flaws that he’s trying to correct.

  279. 1st timer says:

    interesting theories!!!

    I always thought christian wasn’t really christian on the island, but a corpse that was being used for someone/”the island”/now we know maybe evil/the devil to communicate.

    Also interesting as I am reading is that everyone refers to Richard Alpert as RA — the egyptian connection we saw tonight with everyone taking about the egyptian god RA – the god of “light”/”sun”/”good”. Also RA was associated in some way with the god of fertility, sobek. Richard seems to guard jacob’s home so he is on the side of god/good.

    I loved this finale! Im hoping that the end was a time flash and not the bomb.

  280. FrankS says:

    Just wanted to add another thought connecting what Jacob’s companion said in the beginning (paraphrasing) “they come, they fight, they destroy” –

    maybe each time Jacob has brought people to the island, they did exactly that. Take, for example, Danielle’s group.

    But when Jack and O6ers arrived, it was different because Jack led (live together, die alone) and kept everyone from fighting.

    And just another random thought – remember when Claire told Kate in dream “don’t bring him back, don’t you ever bring him back” about Aaron, maybe she knew that Jacob’s evil companion would try to possess his body, a vessel.

    Even more on this, what if the lack of fertility on the island wasn’t the result of breaking the statue or radiation but that Jacob made it so because he knew the only way he could be killed is if evil companion (Esau) could possess a baby/child, could take human form? So if no babies were born on the island, so-called Esau would never be able to take human form; that is, until Ben killed John.

  281. Geeroh says:

    Everyone is pretty much of the opinion that Esau was controlling all the apparitions and what not considering Esau seems to have hijacked the cabin. I am in agreement. However, the only direction/plan given to the losties that does not seem to be derived from the apparitions or could in any way be controlled by Esau is Faraday’s plan to blow up the hatch. We do not know the exact genesis of this plan but we do know that it was nudged along by Widmore and Eloise. Now either they were working under orders from Jacob, or they had allied themselves with Esau after experiencing emotions similar to Ben after exile. (perhaps Esau himself is not equal in stature/nature to Jacob as we seem to believe but was just the original leader like Widmore/Ben). I happen to think that Faraday’s book/plan is Jacob’s counter-plan to Esau’s assasination plot, given to Faraday from Eloise who was given the book from Jacob. Faraday is just the only human capable of solving Jacob’s problem, the book/plan itself is the “variable” that will alter events in Jacob’s favor, evidenced by eloise not knowing how things are going to play out when in the hospital with Penny, she just knows that Jacob’s attempt to thwart Esau has been initiated. Also, is the show itself the end game scenario that Jacob alluded to when speaking to Esau on the beach, that everything progresses until this point, when Jacob finally defeats Esau?

  282. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335449"] My husband swears that it was Juliet’s eye in the teaser for the 2010 series.
    [/quote]
    ****************************************

    Check this out. It will probably change your mind and his….comparison of Jacks Eye and The Eye

    Also i mentioned this in a previous posts but havent read or heard much about it….Richard says he does not age because of Jacob. I’m thinking maybe Jacob took RA into the temple as RA did little injured Ben and this is what causes him not to age. Maybe Ben will not age now…..what do you think?

  283. hoflady says:

    what was written along the top of the tapestry that Jacob was weaving?

  284. jaime says:

    [quote comment="335465"]what was written along the top of the tapestry that Jacob was weaving?[/quote]
    *******************************************

    Across the top of the tapestry is a quote from Homer’s Odyssey ΘΞΟΙ ΤΟΣΑ ΔΟΙΞΝ ΟΣΑ ΦΡΞΣΙ ΣΗΣΙ ΜΞΝΟΙΝΑΖ means,
    “may the gods grant thee all that thy heart desires”

    Another passage is woven into the middle of the tapestry. It can be only partly seen, but the passage in full reads, ΘΞΟΙ ΔΞ ΤΟΙ ΟΛΒΙΑ ΔΟΙΞΝ. means, “may the gods grant thee happiness

  285. MacGyver says:

    [quote comment="335417"]The Losties couldn’t have died from the H-Bomb explosion. Even if they have, some people have speculated that their mind travels to their future selves.. which would also be their past selves in a future time… That theory does not make sense to me. At all. Minds travel when there is a disruption with the invisible energy in the Island and surrounding… which is what happened to Desmond after the failsafe key and what happens to George on the freighter because they are on the limits of the island and he delved too deeply… as for Daniel and his subjects, he was messing with scientific experiments dealing with time travel. And Charlotte, she was subject to the FDW that was off its axis and sending the island all over the place, and she was more susceptible for some reason.

    These people didn’t die before their mind got unstuck in time. Why would minds travel in time after death? I just generally do not understand this theory.[/quote]

    *****
    the fact that they didn’t die in order to conscience time travel only proves the theory more in my opinion. Here’s why, yes you’re right these people didn’t have to die in order to CTT that’s why they were flashing in and out. Simply because they were still alive!! It we KNOW does happen. Dan’s experiments prove that that it can be controlled. Now if you die….just think about what you said about Desmond. The hatch blew up and sent his consciousnes to the PAST and it’s gone to the past in every case except dan’s sending eloise’s mind into the future, because he was controlling. Charlette went threw all the time shifts just like everyone else and NEVER once became unstuck till she was dying…..Right? Ok. Now you can say the swan expoding Completely untuck desmonds mind…..for a long time! All the other instances of CT had no build up…and were all drastically shorter is duration. So since WHH, and this was the actual incident. Means that the H-bomb always goes off. Now at this point you can belive its possible to not die in an a-bombs ground zero. But when it happened to Japan…a whole city Still stands ONLy to this day ONLY because of a mountain sheilding the blast. Now I think Steve is great but i never belived an a-bomb(fire) could possibly cancel out Electromagnetic energy(no fire) in any way. So yeah…..if all the losties trying to stop jack(who sudenly has Faith) didn’t convince you, maybe this will. Swan exploding=crazy electromagnetism= CTT tempory past. Swam exploding+ A bomb=crazy electromagnetism= controlled crazy fire= death and permaent CTT at ground zero. Now the reason I know this theory is golden is because They still get on flight 815!! Which has completly proven itself to be pure coarse correction for all of them. So if you can please explain to me how they all end up in the incident at the same time, yet were all born before 1977 and lived out ther lives with no memory. Why? That life is dead. Then explain how Julliet ends up letting Ben And RA take her to same island she lived on for so long, yet can’t remember. How can one EVER forget that they personally detonated an a-bomb with their hands….while hanging upside down…AFTER she actually left and came back!!! lol!!! :-) Then tell me how Dan Forgets his mother shot him, yet has a diary full of future events(!!! just realized that). Looks to me that he didn’t have the time to jot down that last entry before his death, and that his momma left that part of the story out when she gave it back to him. Looks like I might have to go ‘runway’ on this for eight Months

  286. Geeroh says:

    Locke has been used in this way before, remember the commune, he was a pawn for authorities, Esau as the smoke monster saw this from Locke’s past and thought that Locke would make an ideal canidate to be manipulated into thinking he is special, but then Esau had to have a hand in annointing Locke the leader of the others and do not know how that happened, but that flashback for Locke is probably in there to show that Locke is actually a tool and is probably dead for good.

  287. MacGyver says:

    Ok ….since you guys are RUNNING…and really fast, with this whole esau=john=smokie and we don’t even have a name yet, so I must debunk. How can this be true If smoke monster manifests as smoke, and then alex, but John’s chillin upstairs. ;-) I ‘ve got a lot more where that came from.

    Oh and doesn’t even know what the alex/monster said to Ben, yet the island talks to him.

  288. The Kath says:

    So I’m really into names and I have been keeping a file of the names of characters on the show. The character has to be somewhat prominent to be on my list, then after the character’s name is the meaning of their name and then a Y or N as for whether or not the meaning of their name matches their personality/actions. After the list got filled in I noticed that I have 50% that are true to their name meanings and 50% that are not. The only one I can’t figure out and who would be the tie breaker is Ben. Any help?

    Here is the list:

    Hugo – Mind, heart or spirit – Y All those apply to Hugo especially spirit

    Jack – God is gracious – N Jack in not a God person

    John – God is gracious – Y John IS a God person

    Kate/Katherine – Pure – N – Pure as the driven slush

    James – supplanter – Y – He’s a conman

    Sayid – happy – N – He’s pretty unhappy, except for Nadia parts.

    Charles – free man – Y – He would appear to be free to do what he wants i.e. money, power.

    Christian – follower of Christ – N – He’s a follower of science

    Eloise – famous warrior – Y – Within her own people she is well known and gun toting

    Juliet – down bearded youth – N – She has no beard

    Nadia – hope – Y – The one (hopeful) bright spot in Sayid’s life.

    Daniel – God is my judge – N – Science/mom is his judge

    Miles – uncertain perhaps peaceful – Y He does seem uncertain, yet is nice.

    Desmond – Man from south Munster – N – Des is from Scotland

    Boone – From Bohon In France – Y Only because his name is Boone and he comes from rescuing Shannon in France

    Shannon – old – N – she’s very young

    Michael – who is like God- Y He is fatherly; like God is.

    Walt – army ruler – N – He’s a child

    Vincent – Victorious – Y – Vincent is always happy so he IS victorious

    Ana Lucia – gracious, merciful light – N – She’s grumpy, aggressive and has weighty issues.

    Rose – rose – Y – simple, beautiful. A rose is a rose.

    Elizabeth (libby) – God is my oath – N – she’s a liar

    Bernard – bold as a bear – Y – Bold and bear-like with that new beard

    Alex – defender of the people – Y – she’s always sticking up for people

    Ilana – tree – N – she isn’t tree-like

    Tom – twin – Y – he wears disguises and keeps us guessing

    Penelope – with a web over her face – N

    Pierre – rock- Y – He is a rock amongst his people

    Benjamin – son of my right hand – ??

  289. Bobbi says:

    I really have trouble believing that they will just wake up on plane and go on as if nothing happened, with no knowledge. For example, Daniel banged on hatch door and Desmond answered, and was told to search for Eloise. He didn’t ‘remember’ anyone banging on door, when the Losties found the hatch. He said they were the FIRST to ever come to the hatch. He would’ve remembered Daniel, when Locke/Jack showed up at hatch, if the future was totally changed by the Losties changing past. This is obviously NOT the same rhyme/reason as say, Back to the Future movies. HOWEVER, the disputing example would be how Charlotte DOES remember ‘a man’ telling her to never come back to the island, the island is death. Daniel hadn’t done so yet. Those two occurences really contradict each other.

  290. Bobbi says:

    A few people here are concerned that Frank was not more shocked and upset about seeing Locke’s body in the crate, but I wasn’t. Afterall, when he came out of cockpit to talk to Jack and saw the other survivors, he said “we’re not going to Guam, are we?” really nonchalant. I think it was his character to take things in stride when seeing Locke’s body.

  291. bolddeceiver says:

    Loved this episode. My thoughts:

    1. The Jacob we have known, the one who has spoken to John in the cabin, has been Esau all along. This means that him not Jacob has been telling our losties that Aaron cannot come back to the island.

    Claire to Kate: Don’t you dare bring him back.

    Christian to Locke: Aaron is where he needs to be and that’s not here.

    I believe that Aaron will become Jacob reincarnate. There is a reason Esau did not want him to come back. This is because he will be Jacob reborn.

    2. The logo change at the end was HUGE! This signifies a change in the series. We went from mostly black with a little white to the opposite. Much like yin and yang the situation has now changed dramatically. Instead of wandering around in the dark our losties have had their destinies fulfilled. The last season will involve them purposefully fullfilling their destinies instead of wandering thru the dark.

    3. Rose and Bernard are our Adam and Eve. They are living the example. Accepting life as it comes and enjoying their love for each other.

    4. I think Jacob brings humans to the island as a test. He is hoping that humanity has advanced enough that the secrets of the universe can be revealed to them w/o them using that info to kill each other. Until now all the people have proven Esau right. Humans are bad and will use knowledge to kill not help each other. Jacob believes this will change over time.

    5. Posted this two weeks ago and got no response. Thought I would post again for some feedback since Moses was mentioned in this episode.

    What if the island is the promised land Moses led his people to in the Old Testament. Remember after leading his people there he was not allowed in? Could the island be this promised land? Are the others the descendants of the ancient people who left a life of slavery to find salvation? Remember Moses is a descendant of Jacob.

  292. Bobbi says:

    My thoughts on the smoke monster are mixed still, but let me see what you all think about this… I’m wondering if the smoke monster is really ‘faux Locke’. Afterall, we know that Ben saw his daughter in the temple who told him to do everything Locke says…I think that was the ‘faux Locke’ working his plan, afterall Locke WAS NOT there with Ben during that moment! He was supposed on a different level of the temple at the time, so he could have appeared anywhere as anything.

    I do NOT think however, the faux-Locke is responsible for ALL of the post death apparitions. Hurley was ‘haunted’ by sightings, but Jacob considered them blessings. So perhaps BOTH Jacob and the other guy can control the smoke monster. Yin/Yang, black/white, good/evil, this has been an ongoing theme for the entire show. The black/white stones with Adam/Eve, even Hurley constantly playing chess. This entire episode seemed chess based to me! Black/white, and the long plan of faux-Locke who said he went through tons in order to follow his plan or strategy.

    I think this was a great way to show us this entire thing revolves around the continuous battle evil/good. Jacob said in first scene ‘same thing happens, but always with progress’…so I think he means he feels that each time, humankind progresses more toward the good. Perhaps that is why faux-Locke hates Jacob, because he strives to ‘better’ mankind.

  293. Bobbi says:

    Walt’s vision. I think the vision has already happened. Locke was on the beach in a suit, after the Ajira crash. Those around him, questioned who he was, but turns out…they already knew! I mean Ilana knew, Jacob asked for her help, and they obviously knew Locke was in coffin. So perhaps they wanted to kill him THEN, when he was on beach in suit, but couldn’t yet because Jacob needed things to ‘progress’ more.

  294. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="335405"]Here is something that struck me that i havent read here yet. When Bernard asked Juliet if she was sure she didnt want to stay for tea Juliet kind of touched her stomach and said no. I thought immediately that she was pregnant and that Bernard could tell. Did anyone else think that from the exchange?[/quote]
    I did immediately think pregnancy, but then I thought…no way Bernard would know. I think it was more about him knowing that she would be out of equation with Sawyer know that Kate was back, which she did feel too!

  295. Bobbi says:

    I definitely believe that Jacob was ‘killed’, whether he is a God or not. Afterall, HE himself says ‘guess you found your loophole’ to the faux-locke. We are definitely supposed to consider him dead, the question is, will it be rectified by the H-bomb, or Ilana and crew?

    As far as a theory on Jacob interacting in the lOsties lives at different times, perhaps that was NOT the only times. I mean, maybe we saw just a few examples of how he was there, but he might’ve been there more throughout ‘time’ to continue to guide them to the path of going to island and then returning back to island later. I’m thinking of the ‘footprints’ poem, He was there all along. A few of the times where critical, for instance Locke pushed out the window, Nadia dying, Sawyer’s parents funeral, Jin/Sun wedding, but the Kate one and the Jack one is a bit less key. I think the key in that scene was ‘be good Katie’. I think it has to do with her having WILL and choosing to do certain things, and Kate has always seemed to have conflict choosing right/wrong, even on the island. Jacob and Jack’s interaction was also based on a key phrase “sometimes all it takes is a a little push” or something to that effect. Perhaps symbolizing that Jack just needed a little push to get things going.

  296. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="335337"]I think the 2010 season will show them back in LA as if nothing ever happened but like Jack said to Sawyer they will fulfill their destiny therefore Jack will end up with kate, Sawyer w/ Juliette, Sayid’s wife dead etc.. The point is you have a destiny and no matter what happens (plane crash or not) you will fulfill it. That is why the last tittle was “Destiny Found” we will finally get to see what each character’s destiny really is. I am so hooked! Can’t wait for 2010!!! This show is so deep!

    Ps- Does anyone have an explanation on the “flasfoward’ when Sunn is giving birth to her baby her husband is in the same hospital but has no idea she is giving birth? WTF? I don’t have an explanation for that.[/quote]

    That wasn’t at same time, it was set up to make us think so through some of the episode, but by end of show we realized one was a flashback and one was a flashforward. Jin was in hospital bringing bear (in past) to daughter of businessmen as an errand for his boss (Sun’s dad)…Sun was in hopsital in flashforward having baby and thought she saw Jin but it was someone else because he turned and it was not him. Doctor also said after baby was born, that she was ‘calling out for Jin’.

  297. Bobbi says:

    Can someone help me? I feel like I remember Locke kicking a ‘break’ in the ashes when he went to cabin with Ben, is that right?

    One thing I did find interesting. I’m not sure which man is the better now….Jacob or faux-Locke. When Ilana goes to cabin, Bram says ‘look at the ashes’ being broken. She raises weapon and goes into cabin, where she finds nothing except knife with cloth that Jacob spun. Jacob started the scene with weaving, then he even acknowledged it when Ben and not-Locke came to statue. ALSO, his rocking chair was in the statue with him, the one that used to be in the cabin. So if we are to believe (like the show wanted us to) that Jacob up and moved with his chair to the statue…then WHY would the answer to riddle about what is in shadow of statue be ‘the one who will protect us’…afterall, Ilana would know to go to statue, not cabin if that is age-old answer. So maybe she was looking for faux-Locke first by heading to cabin. Maybe she realized with broken ring of ashes, knife holding cloth to wall, that he ‘escaped’ and was headed to statue. ALTHOUGH….perhaps the SHADOW of the statue means the cabin…the shadow that is cast over jungle by the immense statue (when it was whole). I would take into consideration that perhaps they tried too hard to make us think Jacob was ‘good’ if there was more consistency with timeline.

    Still, I don’t understand the timeline, the rocker was in cabin when Ben and Locke went a while back. But now it, AND Jacob are in statue. Ilana seemed surprised and acted if though whoever she was looking for was ‘moved’ to the statue. HOWEVER, Jacob was IN the statue in opening scene, weaving, back LONG ago. So perhaps it was NOT Jacob she was looking for afterall?

    It would make sense if it was ‘esau’ in the cabin when ben/locke went….because Ben even said he was just as surprised as Locke when things started flying around. As if it were unlike Jacob. But why was the rocker there? It cannot be coincidence that we saw the rocker in the statue!

  298. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="335477"]

    2. The logo change at the end was HUGE! This signifies a change in the series. We went from mostly black with a little white to the opposite. Much like yin and yang the situation has now changed dramatically. Instead of wandering around in the dark our losties have had their destinies fulfilled. The last season will involve them purposefully fullfilling their destinies instead of wandering thru the dark.
    .[/quote]

    Or perhaps it is to signify the change of POWER from one side to the other black/white, good/bad, Jacob/’Esau’.

  299. physics_is_neat says:

    MacGyver..
    H-bombs and A-bombs are two very different things.
    Jughead was a thermonuclear weapon or an H-bomb.
    the bombs dropped in Japan were A-Bombs.

  300. frank says:

    I had a great theory and I am proud nobody else has said yet: Ben knows evil_locke is lying.
    When Sun and Ben are at the beach she ask him “do you want me to believe that you have never met Jacob?” and he says “no, thats what I do, I lie”
    He has being lying al this time , he makes evil_locke to believe that his scare of her dead doughter and that hi is gonna help him, but remember that ben was the one who said “dead is dead, nobody comes back from that”, he knows this is not the real locke, this is a plan from jacob and ben to fool evil_locke/dark_guy_of_the_beach

  301. KateFan says:

    [quote comment="335393"]oooops….
    What i was trying to say in response to MacGyver quote was :

    I was almost thinking the same thing. The BR sets sail 1845. The BR journal was discovered amoungst pirates artifacts 1852. Could it be that the BR was already on the island while Jacob and his enemy were sitting on the beach and the ship they were looking at was a pirate/other ship?[/quote]

    New here….did anyone see a resemblance to the ship in the opening scene with the ship that RA was building inside the bottle??????

  302. Duke says:

    HAd a thought and wanted to get it down before I forgot it…..sorry if it has been posted already. Evil Locke also transformed into Alex when Ben was judged. He had disappearred from Sun and showed back up when Ben was finished. This is how he knew he could tell Ben that he was going to kill Jacob and not have to worry about Ben telling Richard. Evil Locke at least played the part of Alex and may be the smoke monster (not yet willingly to say outright).

  303. poopy pants says:

    -The ship in the distance in the opening sceens is the BlackRock.
    -The model Richard Alpert is raising the mast of inside the bottle is a scale model of said BlackRock
    -Richard Alpert aka “Captain Eyeliner” would,imo,most likely be abord,if not Captain of,said ship
    -Re “fade to white”…seing desmond waking up nakind in the jungle is one thing,but if next season starts off with Hugo naked in the jungle I might scratch out my eyeballs.

  304. Obi-Wan says:

    Does anyone believe that there is a Star Wars play here especially after the reference a few episodes ago with Hurley trying to write his own changes to Empire Strikes Back?

    Obi-Wan(Jacob) sacrificed himself to help Luke (Jack) fight evil Vader (Ben) and the Emperor (Beach guy). This is the war that we knew was coming. The white screen at the end was the flash that signified they are coming back, and Jacob also said in the end “they are coming.”

    You could also look to the energy and everything about the island as the force and why Locke was able to walk when he first landed, and Jack being up and at them when he had his appendix out. I don’t know, just an alternate theory to the God vs Satan play…

  305. Duke says:

    I will go on record and say that SOMETHING got changed with the incident. Not sure what yet but next season will somewhat mirror season one but the castaways will have the knowledge from being there before and will live the way Jacob wanted them to. It was foreshadowed last night with the opening conversation and Sawyer, Kate, and Juliet’s interactions with Rose and Bernard.

  306. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335386"][quote comment="335171"][quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Hmmm could be. I can’t remember my Hanso history – didn’t the original Hanso come to the island on the Black Rock? And I assumed that ship we saw in the opening scene was the Black Rock. So I wonder if Hanso hasn’t arrived on the island yet?[/quote]

    ***I just realized that it couldn’t of been the black rock at sea. There’s only one way that ship gets imbeded into the island and that would be turning fdw so that the island surfaces under the ship.

    I saw that on lostpedia and couldn’t think of a better explanation.
    [quote comment="335285"][quote comment="335187"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    Keamy since he broke the rules and killed Alex.

    Widmore (post DHARMA since he wasn’t orig. DHARMA

    The Walt apparitions, Libby apparitions, Claire apparitions, etc., etc.

    Christian (post death).

    I believe all of this because of his comment “You have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here”.[/quote]

    *****
    That one went over my head Hammer?
    I don’t understand why people want to personify smokey.

    Locke is not Dead and neither is Dan[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I want to personify Smokey because it happenend. He has appeared as Eko and Alex…if not more people. I now think that Beach Guy has been most if not all apparition, manifestations, dreams, etc. All in his effort to get thru the loophole.

    FWIW, I also think there are at least to Smokies…an evil and a good one.

  307. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335496"]
    Ben knows evil_locke is lying.
    When Sun and Ben are at the beach she ask him “do you want me to believe that you have never met Jacob?” and he says “no, thats what I do, I lie”
    He has being lying al this time , he makes evil_locke to believe that his scare of her dead doughter and that hi is gonna help him, but remember that ben was the one who said “dead is dead, nobody comes back from that”, he knows this is not the real locke, this is a plan from jacob and ben to fool evil_locke/dark_guy_of_the_beach[/quote]

    I like it, Frank.

    : ) P

  308. poopy pants says:

    -How does Desmond and Penny play into all this God killing and H-Bomb blasting,how would this effect them.

  309. KateFan says:

    Another thought that i have been pondering all day….the reference again to the APOLLO candy bar in the scene when Jacob and Jack speak in the hospital (remember the apollo bars back to when Hurley finds them in the hatch)

    Everything is a hint right? No one has mentioned anything Greek…all posts have been Egyptian/Bible references- but I really think Apollo is also a good reference of Jacob’s character.

    Apollo had a twin, although a woman, Artemis who was revengeful and full of hate- and represented night (darkness)
    Was born on an island which was not a “real island” but a floating island which Zeus sunk to the bottom of the ocean, and his oracle was on an island- Delphi

    He is the God of light, truth, destiny, and healing

    I am not saying that Jacob=Apollo — but is there anything here at all????

  310. JZ says:

    [quote comment="335508"]Another thought that i have been pondering all day….the reference again to the APOLLO candy bar in the scene when Jacob and Jack speak in the hospital (remember the apollo bars back to when Hurley finds them in the hatch)

    Everything is a hint right? No one has mentioned anything Greek…all posts have been Egyptian/Bible references- but I really think Apollo is also a good reference of Jacob’s character.

    Apollo had a twin, although a woman, Artemis who was revengeful and full of hate- and represented night (darkness)
    Was born on an island which was not a “real island” but a floating island which Zeus sunk to the bottom of the ocean, and his oracle was on an island- Delphi

    He is the God of light, truth, destiny, and healing

    I am not saying that Jacob=Apollo — but is there anything here at all????[/quote]
    ____________________
    I think that’s a great connection.

    I’ve also found that Egyptian, Greek, and even Roman mythology all somewhat similiar in that there are many different gods for many different things. They all just assigned there own specific story and names to them.

    I love all this mythology crap!

  311. richard says:

    I am really surprised that everyone has jumped on the “Jacob is good” bandwagon. When we were watching it, I immediately thought he was bad in the flashback scenes. Think about it, everytime he interacts with a Lostie, they begin their bad behavior.

    When he buys the lunchbox for Kate, he basically gets her out of learning a lesson, he endorses her behavior.

    Sawyer is persuaded not to write the letter and then Jacob shows up and gives him a pen. Total enabler.

    Same with Sayid, he distracts Sayid and causes his wife to die. Perhaps if Sayid hadn’t been distracted, he would have seen the car coming and pulled NAdia to safety – he is a trained soldier after all.

    With Jack and Hugo, it’s a little less clear but put me in the camp who thinks Jacob is not such a good guy.

  312. ChrisLost says:

    The first time John “meets” Jacob is when Ben takes him to that cabin in the woods. They don’t see anybody but John hears someone say “help me”. Perhaps Jacob really is dead but it’s possible for Locke to help him (or save him) in the past. Perhaps that’s why all the stuff started whipping around in the cabin. Jacob was there in some spiritual form and was trying to hurt (kill?) Ben because he knows that in the future, Ben is going to stab him. Maybe they will go back/forward in time and John will have the chance to save Jacob. Maybe Jacob saying “they’re coming” to the fake John Locke means that the Oceanic group are coming back in time to start over and perhaps somehow save him from being killed.

  313. ChrisLost says:

    The first time John “meets” Jacob is when Ben takes him to that cabin in the woods. They don’t see anybody but John hears someone say “help me”. Perhaps Jacob really is dead but it’s possible for Locke to help him (or save him) in the past. Perhaps that’s why all the stuff started whipping around in the cabin. Jacob was there in some spiritual form and was trying to hurt (kill?) Ben because he knows that in the future, Ben is going to stab him. Maybe they will go back/forward in time and John will have the chance to save Jacob. Maybe Jacob saying “they’re coming” to the fake John Locke means that the Oceanic group are coming back in time to start over and perhaps somehow save him from being killed.

  314. ChrisLost says:

    The first time John “meets” Jacob is when Ben takes him to that cabin in the woods. They don’t see anybody but John hears someone say “help me”. Perhaps Jacob really is dead but it’s possible for Locke to help him (or save him) in the past. Perhaps that’s why all the stuff started whipping around in the cabin. Jacob was there in some spiritual form and was trying to hurt (kill?) Ben because he knows that in the future, Ben is going to stab him. Maybe they will go back/forward in time and John will have the chance to save Jacob. Maybe Jacob saying “they’re coming” to the fake John Locke means that the Oceanic group are coming back in time to start over and perhaps somehow save him from being killed.

  315. Steve says:

    [quote comment="335758"]I am really surprised that everyone has jumped on the “Jacob is good” bandwagon. When we were watching it, I immediately thought he was bad in the flashback scenes. Think about it, everytime he interacts with a Lostie, they begin their bad behavior.

    When he buys the lunchbox for Kate, he basically gets her out of learning a lesson, he endorses her behavior.

    Sawyer is persuaded not to write the letter and then Jacob shows up and gives him a pen. Total enabler.

    Same with Sayid, he distracts Sayid and causes his wife to die. Perhaps if Sayid hadn’t been distracted, he would have seen the car coming and pulled NAdia to safety – he is a trained soldier after all.

    With Jack and Hugo, it’s a little less clear but put me in the camp who thinks Jacob is not such a good guy.[/quote]

    __________________________________________________

    Maybe the guy we see in the flashbacks is not actually Jacob.

  316. Steve says:

    [quote comment="335503"][quote comment="335386"][quote comment="335171"][quote comment="335165"]A friend on another blog asked who the guy on the beach is(the second Locke)…I am guessing he is a Hanso.[/quote]
    Hmmm could be. I can’t remember my Hanso history – didn’t the original Hanso come to the island on the Black Rock? And I assumed that ship we saw in the opening scene was the Black Rock. So I wonder if Hanso hasn’t arrived on the island yet?[/quote]

    ***I just realized that it couldn’t of been the black rock at sea. There’s only one way that ship gets imbeded into the island and that would be turning fdw so that the island surfaces under the ship.

    I saw that on lostpedia and couldn’t think of a better explanation.
    [quote comment="335285"][quote comment="335187"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Beach Guy =

    Keamy since he broke the rules and killed Alex.

    Widmore (post DHARMA since he wasn’t orig. DHARMA

    The Walt apparitions, Libby apparitions, Claire apparitions, etc., etc.

    Christian (post death).

    I believe all of this because of his comment “You have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here”.[/quote]

    *****
    That one went over my head Hammer?
    I don’t understand why people want to personify smokey.

    Locke is not Dead and neither is Dan[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I want to personify Smokey because it happenend. He has appeared as Eko and Alex…if not more people. I now think that Beach Guy has been most if not all apparition, manifestations, dreams, etc. All in his effort to get thru the loophole.

    FWIW, I also think there are at least to Smokies…an evil and a good one.[/quote]
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

    Since it seems that what ever our time travelers are in contact with during a foom event seems to go with them, why couldnt the black rock go as well and end up in the middle of the island.

    Alternatively, Jack ends up on his back in the middle of the jungle twice so far, what is to say that this couldn’t have happened to the black rock and at least one person on board?

  317. Steve says:

    [quote comment="335494"]MacGyver..
    H-bombs and A-bombs are two very different things.
    Jughead was a thermonuclear weapon or an H-bomb.
    the bombs dropped in Japan were A-Bombs.[/quote]

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    Very true. H-Bomb is a two stage thermo-nuclear device using both fission and fusion reactions. A-Bomb is a single stage device. The detonator for the secondary stage reaction in an H-Bomb is primarily an A-bomb. This is the device that Sayid removes from Jughead. He has to rig it to detonate because the device is design to detonate at a certain altitude (Around 2500 feet). Most likely the bomb was dropped on the island and did not go off. This would have brought the army to the island to find it.

  318. DocH says:

    [quote comment="335769"]… likely the bomb was dropped on the island and did not go off. This would have brought the army to the island to find it.
    [/quote]
    It was mounted in a testing tower. Like most of the Pacific Testing Grounds atomic explosions of that era, they were above ground. The goal was either to determine the yield of the device or the impact on that particular (potential) wartime environment {wooded/tropical/maritime).

  319. Lost in Georgia says:

    [quote comment="335416"]I just love the significance of Jacob weaving! with threads he has spun himself (“it takes longer when you spin your own thread”)….making a tapestry of life, weaving various strands together..and, additionally, the “loophole…” not a good thing when weaving!
    ***********************************************
    I like that Jacob has been weaving also – making a tapestry. There is a Christian illustration about life being a tapestry. We, on earth, see only the underside of the tapestry – all the knots, strings hanging down, a mess. But God looks down and sees the top of the tapestry – the beautiful “big picture.” I thought this went along well with Ben’s conversation with Jacob just before he stabbed him. Ben is seeing all the strings. I think when Jacob asks Ben “Who are you Ben?” It was more of a question of his character. Who are you? Good or Bad?

  320. Steve says:

    [quote comment="335773"][quote comment="335769"]… likely the bomb was dropped on the island and did not go off. This would have brought the army to the island to find it.
    [/quote]
    It was mounted in a testing tower. Like most of the Pacific Testing Grounds atomic explosions of that era, they were above ground. The goal was either to determine the yield of the device or the impact on that particular (potential) wartime environment {wooded/tropical/maritime).[/quote]
    ___________________________________

    Yes, at first I thought it looked a detonation tower, but it was way too small. I thought these towers were at least 20 stories tall.

  321. Steve says:

    A quick idea about the change of tides.
    Black to white, dead to alive, trapped and free. This whole time we have been watching the dark side at work. The good side has been trapped and desperately wants to be free. In order to win the battle, the good side must not only defeat the dark side, it must entrap the dark side. Now that Man #2 is trapped in human form. Jacob has manipulated the situation so that he has been set free. Purified by fire so to speak.

    I don’t know anything anymore. Any ideas?

  322. Belle says:

    “What lies in the shadow of the statue?” Could the definition of “lies” actually mean someone that tells lies instead of residing there? I think Jacob could just as easily be the bad one.

  323. Duke says:

    [quote comment="335347"]Please explain your theories as to why you think Jacob touched the losties. Obviously they were all on flight 815,and as Jacob said to Jack “it just needed a little push” But he touched Kate, Sawyer and Jack before 815 and then Sayid and Hurley before 316. Any significance?

    Also i was thinking that the meeting between Ilana and Jacob happen after the beach scene we saw last night. She seemed to be the same age as we see her now, not younger. Also she is obviously very injured where she would end up with some sort of facial scars and she does not have any scars as of right now. Although they are speaking Russian to each other and that is where she meets up with Sayid. Did jacob heal her so that she would help and get Sayid to the island?

    Richard says he does not age because of Jacob. I’m thinking maybe Jacob took RA into the temple as RA did little injured Ben and this is what causes him not to age. Maybe Ben will not age now.[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Sayid and Hurley were reluctant to board 316 and needed incentive to get on the plane because they had no desire to return.

  324. pete says:

    [quote comment="335500"]Does anyone believe that there is a Star Wars play here especially after the reference a few episodes ago with Hurley trying to write his own changes to Empire Strikes Back?

    Obi-Wan(Jacob) sacrificed himself to help Luke (Jack) fight evil Vader (Ben) and the Emperor (Beach guy). This is the war that we knew was coming. The white screen at the end was the flash that signified they are coming back, and Jacob also said in the end “they are coming.”

    You could also look to the energy and everything about the island as the force and why Locke was able to walk when he first landed, and Jack being up and at them when he had his appendix out. I don’t know, just an alternate theory to the God vs Satan play…[/quote]
    i like it the “there coming” remark could mean the beings responsible for all goings on are returning and pseudolocke dident look happy chariots of the gods maybee with all the egyptian referances cant wait untill next season seriously pumped up about it!

  325. RGS says:

    Well I actually was not as fired up about the result of this finale. I’m going to refrain from over-analyzing some of the stretches that we are asked to accept (Rose & Bernard living off Dharma food? How’d they get past the sonic fence?) and focus more on the direction the show is headed. I also thought they went overboard with trying to hide the fact that FLocke was not the real Locke.

    To me he would know where Jacob lived so there was no need to be all-extra “why are we looking at this wonderful foot Richard?”, nor would I think he’d care about the hatch door , but these are just minor issues for me.

    I was holding out hope that we’d be able to get answers to major issues, but this episode brought up so many things that I now know for sure it will be wishful thinking. I feel like we’ll be lucky to see why there was a pregnancy problem, among other major and semi-major mysteries.

    What I’m afraid will happen is that we won’t know how or why some of the Jacob followers will suddenly either want to follow Flocke or want to see Flocke killed. I mean who could the war be between at this point? They know that when Flocke comes out it won’t be him because they’ve got Locke’s body.

    Speaking of, how could Flocke not take care of that “tiny” little detail? Why would they go to the island with an empty metal container, find Locke’s body and put it in the container?

    Ilana and crew approach Jacob’s cabin guns drawn, and cautiously. They don’t seem like they were expecting to see Jacob acting in that manner. However that was clearly supposed to be Jacob’s cabin.

    It’s strange to think that Ben would think he’d have the ability to kill Jacob given everything that Jacob (presumably) had done for him and his people and witnessing the power that he seemed to have in the cabin earlier.

    I just think there’s a lot of questions that will not get resolved.

    I’m fine with the bomb going off now too, because it is just part of the mysterious incident that causes a time skipping flash, so all bets are off with it having “normal” effects.

  326. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335785"][quote comment="335773"][quote comment="335769"]… likely the bomb was dropped on the island and did not go off. This would have brought the army to the island to find it.
    [/quote]
    It was mounted in a testing tower. Like most of the Pacific Testing Grounds atomic explosions of that era, they were above ground. The goal was either to determine the yield of the device or the impact on that particular (potential) wartime environment {wooded/tropical/maritime).[/quote]
    ___________________________________

    Yes, at first I thought it looked a detonation tower, but it was way too small. I thought these towers were at least 20 stories tall.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Maybe…but ‘real’ runways are long and concrete, and ‘real’ fathers are not kidnappers…

  327. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335799"]Speaking of, how could Flocke not take care of that “tiny” little detail? Why would they go to the island with an empty metal container, find Locke’s body and put it in the container?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++=
    My thought was that the box wasn’t empty. It had the guns, supplies, etc. needed for their ‘mission’. Whilst going thru the cargo hold they found the body, decided that since they saw Flocke AND the dead body…they better get to Jacob with the body right away to find out the heck is going on. WHY? Because dead is dead and they were just a surprised as Ben.

  328. Steve says:

    [quote comment="335800"][quote comment="335785"][quote comment="335773"][quote comment="335769"]… likely the bomb was dropped on the island and did not go off. This would have brought the army to the island to find it.
    [/quote]
    It was mounted in a testing tower. Like most of the Pacific Testing Grounds atomic explosions of that era, they were above ground. The goal was either to determine the yield of the device or the impact on that particular (potential) wartime environment {wooded/tropical/maritime).[/quote]
    ___________________________________

    Yes, at first I thought it looked a detonation tower, but it was way too small. I thought these towers were at least 20 stories tall.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Maybe…but ‘real’ runways are long and concrete, and ‘real’ fathers are not kidnappers…[/quote]

    ***************************************
    Good Point. After all it is TV.

  329. RGS says:

    [quote comment="335801"] My thought was that the box wasn’t empty. It had the guns, supplies, etc. needed for their ‘mission’. Whilst going thru the cargo hold they found the body, decided that since they saw Flocke AND the dead body…they better get to Jacob with the body right away to find out the heck is going on. WHY? Because dead is dead and they were just a surprised as Ben.[/quote]
    ‘preciate that.

  330. wally p says:

    I think someone else mentioned this, but I didn’t see anyone else have anything to say about Llanas flashback with Jacob. It did appear that the two of them were friends already,(or something like that) she says, “I’m real glad to see you.” I’m guessing because she has been injured and she knows that Jacob can heal her. It was also mentioned that this scene seemed to be in another time, I’m not sure about this, but could that mean that Llana doesn’t age? …I just watched the first hour of this again , and I have even more questions than I did the first time.

  331. Duke says:

    Bad Locke sent Richard to convince John that he had to die to bring everyone back. He knew that he had to be John so that he could take over as him and lead the others (Jacob’s people) to watch him (Jacob) get killed. It has been stated that John was now there leader for the past 2 seasons. HE could only use John’s body because Richard et al would only follow him therefore completing his task of wanting to kill Jacob very badly. Not only did he find a loophole he manipulated everyone into playing there roles perfectly kinda like another master manipulator on this show.

  332. Fast Eddie S says:

    No one has mentioned that the sound of the metal being twisted and dragged down the hole is the same sound we hear in the jungle when the trees start shaking. IMO
    Are Jacob and Fjohn both smoke monsters assuming human form?

  333. Jumbotron says:

    - Can someone please explain why Ben answered Flocke’s question – “Can I ask you a question?” with “I’m a Pisces.” ??? I know its his sarcastic humor, but I don’t get it…

    – I think Bram is the guy in the VHS video blindfolded.

    – Young Juliet wore a dark pink blouse w/ jeans and the adult Juliet was wearing the same thing.

    – Remember when RA visited Locke as a boy and was showing him pictures of a compass, a book, a knife, etc.? And lil Locke had to pick items that he already owned… so he picked the compass and a few other cards and the last item he picked was a knife. After that, RA was disappointed and left abruptly.

    – I also agree w/ some that say Jacob is not 100% a good guy. I mean he did wear black off the island. Plus, after he met the Losties some of them did the exact opposite of what he advised and he inticed Ben to kill him so he can resurrect into a more powerful being (I like the Gandalf reference).

    – I think the loophole was that according to RA, only the leader could visit Jacob. Since Flocke was not the leader and Locke was dead…that means Ben was still the leader.

    Also, it’s funny how both Bram and Sawyer call other guys “Yahoos”. :-0

  334. Amanda says:

    i tried reading as many as i could to prevent re-posting something that had already been said, but my eyes are tired…

    each time jacob encountered the oceanic people, it was at a defining moment in their lives

    kate: 1st time she ever stole; got caught

    sawyer: parents’ funeral… we all know that was a defining moment

    sayid: nadia’s death

    locke: being betrayed by his dad — pushed out an 8th story window

    sun/jin: their wedding

    jack: 1st operation, christian tells him he doesn’t believe in himself

    any thoughts???? each time, he had words of encouragement… “i’m sorry this happened to you” or “everything will be alright” etc.

  335. RGS says:

    [quote comment="335819"]- Can someone please explain why Ben answered Flocke’s question – “Can I ask you a question?” with “I’m a Pisces.” ??? I know its his sarcastic humor, but I don’t get it…
    [/quote]

    Just prior to that question,

    Flocke: “do you recognize that door?”

    Ben: So what.

    Flocke: “that’s where we first met…can I ask you something?”

    Ben: I’m a Pisces….

    Ben is acting as if Flocke was trying to pick him up at a bar or something.

  336. Becky says:

    I love reading this site…so insightful! Thank you all for so much info!

    Okay, here are my thoughts on the finale, in no particular order:

    1. Very sad about Juliet but the love triangles/quadrangles (as a previous poster rightfully called them!) do take up too much time…I’d rather hear about the island!

    2. It was cool to see Jacob and the “other guy” sitting on the beach…they were definitely black vs. white, light vs. dark, etc.

    3. I could not believe Locke was in the box! But it did make sense…the Locke that was marching across the island was a bit more forceful and crazy than real Locke. Real Locke respected the island where as faux Locke wanted to take over and destroy. Also, Ben was able to fool old Locke EVERY SINGLE TIME so that should have tipped me off earlier!

    4. I actually felt sympathy for Ben last night. He has never been loved in his entire life: his mother died in childbirth, his father loathed him for that, the Others treated him like crap (Widmore wanting him to kill Alex), Juliette scorned him (obviously…he acted like he owned her) and then his daughter was murdered. Of course it was all of his making but still…I think he thought he always had the island and then island got rid of him.

    4. It makes sense that Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve. Black and white, the timing makes sense. Bernard’s hair was out of control! He looked like Moses when he came down from the mountain with the Ten Commandments…maybe he was supposed to since there was a Moses reference later in the show? I loved their ‘retirement village.’ Rose has always been a fan of the beach and jungle…she never wanted to go to the hatch and was not interested in joining the Dharma civilization.

    5. Vincent! About time they brought him back…was he living with Bernard and Rose? I definitely think Jacob or the beach guy were possessing Vincent to spy on the Losties in earlier seasons…that dog is cute but creepy.

    6. I miss Claire…I wish they’d tell us what happened to her. I miss Charlie, too.

    7. Loved when Sun asked Richard for alcohol…she is always asking for Jin…just GIN this time…haha!

    Overall a mind-boggling and overwhelming finale. I am consistently in awe of this show…the writers really are brilliant. I love a show that makes you question and think and remember something from years ago.

  337. slugdoc says:

    [quote comment="335817"]No one has mentioned that the sound of the metal being twisted and dragged down the hole is the same sound we hear in the jungle when the trees start shaking. IMO
    Are Jacob and Fjohn both smoke monsters assuming human form?[/quote]

    OK – Post 94. _I_ said it.
    I was just ignored.

  338. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335842"][quote comment="335817"]No one has mentioned that the sound of the metal being twisted and dragged down the hole is the same sound we hear in the jungle when the trees start shaking. IMO
    Are Jacob and Fjohn both smoke monsters assuming human form?[/quote]

    OK – Post 94. _I_ said it.
    I was just ignored.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Are you guys trying to say that the smoke monster is the magnet pulling people down holes? I’m confused.

  339. matt says:

    Heres what I think… the blast didn’t change anything. Rose and Bernard die of radiation poisoning and die with each other where we find them as adam and eve.

    Lapidus is a candidate for being the host of Jacob, or perhaps the trapped soul of not-jacob, and they trap him in rose/bernards cabin, which later becomes Jacob’s cabin. It is lapidus as not-jacob that says “help me” to locke.

  340. matt says:

    Heres what I think… the blast didn’t change anything. Rose and Bernard die of radiation poisoning and die with each other where we find them as adam and eve.

    Lapidus is a candidate for being the host of Jacob, or perhaps the trapped soul of not-jacob, and they trap him in rose/bernards cabin, which later becomes Jacob’s cabin. It is lapidus as not-jacob that says “help me” to locke.

  341. Miss.Awesome-cherry says:

    [quote comment="335850"]Heres what I think… the blast didn’t change anything. Rose and Bernard die of radiation poisoning and die with each other where we find them as adam and eve.

    Lapidus is a candidate for being the host of Jacob, or perhaps the trapped soul of not-jacob, and they trap him in rose/bernards cabin, which later becomes Jacob’s cabin. It is lapidus as not-jacob that says “help me” to locke.[/quote]
    ___________________________________________-
    to think of it that picture of”Jacob” that we saw in the cabin did sortof look like jacob

  342. DKO says:

    Does anyone else think the metal box with poles that llana and the guys brought to the statue looked like the ark of the covenant?

  343. DKO says:

    Second thought – does Jacob being rolled into the fire possibly symbolize a sacrifice?

  344. Steve says:

    [quote comment="335866"]Second thought – does Jacob being rolled into the fire possibly symbolize a sacrifice?[/quote]

    _______________________________________

    I thought it symbolized a freeing of the spirit. Jacob is free.

  345. Steve says:

    Jacob says it in the beginning of the episode. It only ends once, everything up to that point is just progress.
    I love to speculate on the plot twists and in’s and out’s of the character’s lives, but the whole time I have been watching Lost I could figure out why none of the Losties just sat back with a couple of mangos and enjoyed the paradise around them. Rose and Bernard got it right. Screw the others, to hell with anyone who can’t see the Forrest through the trees. I am in a place where there are no taxes, no job, no pissant boss… I am free. But thats not good TV.

  346. gtmaleah says:

    ta-waret…tawaret…..TAWARET!

  347. wingman says:

    Hmmm….what’s that sound?? Can you guys hear that??

    It’s the smallest violin in the world playing for my Jack = Jacob theory…Talk about mindrape…

    Well my greatest fear was that Jacob was gonna just be some dood who controlled everything…And it appears to be the case, as seemingly most of the LOST Mysteries can be attributed to him and his chess-playing pal…That’s not what i wanted, but I am a man of my word…If Jack = Jacob was to be murdered (And it was before the 3 min. mark), I would fall on my sword and take my death without shame…PJ Sander I beseech you to take the final swing, just make it a clean strike…

  348. gtmaleah says:

    IM not reading any posts pryor to watching lost tonight.I am addressing the sunday night viewers.

  349. Hammer says:

    I am still LOST about what really happened when Des turned the fail safe key. Pushing the button released the energy…not pushing it created the magnetic pull like just like we saw from drilling into the pocket.

    Turning the key created a white flash like Juliette detonating the bomb.

    Did Des turning the key detonate the bomb in 2004?

  350. helen says:

    I’m loving the comments here! I hadn’t come up with my own theories. You guys have great ideas I’d never have thought of:-)

    My favorite line of the night for the finale: Sawyer just after Jack dropped the bomb and nothing happened “well, this sure don’t look like LAX”

    hahahahaha! I love Sawyer! He’s totally Han Solo…

  351. DocH says:

    Code names? FDW – “Frozen Donkey Wheel”. I understand that one from last season finale. But “Fork In The Outlet”? I understand the electrocution = shocking! connection… but I don’t think anything in particular was that shocking… the Swan raid was expected… the Ben / Locke alliance was expected. The only thing that I can think of is that they finally showed us a Jacob, and his LOSTie connections – not really that shocking (IMHO). Or maybe the Locke is dead stuff. Anyone have any better finale “Code Name” clues?

  352. Duke says:

    [quote comment="335396"][quote comment="335392"]So I have been thinking about the white flash. MAYBE our living LOSTies flash forward (to 2007 or elsewhere) and the remaining people on the island (Chang, Radzinsky) flash BACK – even just a few hours to when Daniel was still alive! Maybe then Chang and Daniel make the (Comic-con) video, KNOWING what will happen very shortly.

    Daniel may or may not still die, but perhaps Chang and Radzinsky know what will happen and work to minimize the damage and thus we return to our “previously scheduled future” with the cemented hatch, button pushing, new Chang videos, etc. So Miles will be right, this *was* the incident.

    I know D&C said that the comic-con video wasn’t canon. But, they’ve said LOTS of things to throw us off.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ******
    I tried to tell you it was the incident!! ;-)

    I still can’t believe you don’t think the losties died last night……LOL. I thought it was clear as day. That’s the only reasoning I saw for the flashes with Jacob.

    I like this theory for chang and radzinsky. anyone underground should be ok.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    What will become of season 6 if the losties died last night? NOw I agree that anyone detonating a hydrogen bomb in the hopes that they will alter the future without even considering it will kill everybody is somewhat foolish but I really do not think that season 6 will be the zombie season with all the castaways dead. It just doesn’t make sense to have another season if everyone is dead.

  353. Ger says:

    Richard in 2007 said he saw Jack etc die in 1977… so when did that happen? Or did he mean he saw them go to their death (when he left them with the H-bomb)? But he left only Jack and Sahid an the photo included all of them.

  354. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335876"]Code names? FDW – “Frozen Donkey Wheel”. I understand that one from last season finale. But “Fork In The Outlet”? I understand the electrocution = shocking! connection… but I don’t think anything in particular was that shocking… the Swan raid was expected… the Ben / Locke alliance was expected. The only thing that I can think of is that they finally showed us a Jacob, and his LOSTie connections – not really that shocking (IMHO). Or maybe the Locke is dead stuff. Anyone have any better finale “Code Name” clues?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    How about “Sylar in Hawaii” or “Attack of the Clone”?

  355. Missy says:

    The opening conversation between Jacob and non-Jacob was interesting. The way they were dressed is reminiscent of how the others walk around the jungle in their “costumes.” Seemed like Jacob was representing optimist/good/light and non-Jacob was pessimist/evil/dark as they watch the black rock approach the island, although, I did like what someone pointed out about Jacob’s mingling with our losties could have set them on a negative path, not a positive one. Kate didn’t learn her lesson, Sawyer was enabled to write his letter, etc.
    The overall theme was free will – Jacob stepped in but never really interfered, everyone has a choice. I thought the conversation between Ben and Jacob was very telling. Non-Jacob planted a seed of doubt in Ben’s mind. Doubt is all it takes for all your beliefs to unravel. Ben’s life has been lived out by following and believing in Jacob. I think Ben is representative of the human race. Kind of like the footprints in the sand story. A man has a dream and recalls all the hardships in his life and sees only one set of footprints in the sand and asks the Lord, “what about me?” – and the Lord answered him that when there was only one set of footprints in the sand, that it was then that He carried him. When Ben asked, What about me? And Jacob said, What about you? – made me think everybody has hardships – Ben had previously trusted Jacob and had no trouble accepting his destiny. Don’t we all ask sometimes, What about me?
    Poor Juliet. She loved Sawyer and got stuck at the bottom of the swan with the bomb. I didn’t think she’d have it in her to set it off. Like Ben, she seems to have a miserable existence for most of her life. I hope she was the true game changer making history able to be changed. Could it be true that what happened happened – in each time loop. For instance they can’t change the past that they’ve already lived, but perhaps they can change it for the next time around – make it better – progress!
    Lapidus – he seems like a genuinely good soul. Maybe he’s just a candidate to join the elite “others” – sort of how Goodwin was making a case for Anna Lucia. Maybe if you can prove yourself worthy and someone makes a case for you, you can join their society. Of course it could also be for body take over as well, just trying to think of another possibility.
    Next season – where do we pick up at? They can’t have all died, can they? And I don’t really expect them to all show up landing in LAX? So where does that leave our losties? 2010 is an unrealistic amount of time to make us wait for new material!!!

  356. DocH says:

    re: …“Sylar in Hawaii” or “Attack of the Clone”?

    Are those two choices they passed over?

    (I was looking for a better assessment of the Fork-Outlet thingy)

  357. gtmaleah says:

    Absolute bollocks!With a capital B! I have never been so disappointed in all my life. I dont think there was anything in this episode to make me want to watch the next season..What a let down.

  358. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335871"]Hmmm….what’s that sound?? Can you guys hear that??

    It’s the smallest violin in the world playing for my Jack = Jacob theory…Talk about mindrape…

    Well my greatest fear was that Jacob was gonna just be some dood who controlled everything…And it appears to be the case, as seemingly most of the LOST Mysteries can be attributed to him and his chess-playing pal…That’s not what i wanted, but I am a man of my word…If Jack = Jacob was to be murdered (And it was before the 3 min. mark), I would fall on my sword and take my death without shame…PJ Sander I beseech you to take the final swing, just make it a clean strike…[/quote]

    Aw, Wingman, give yourself a break! We all have some strong opinions about things that eventually are proven to be false! Put your sword away, take off your coat and stay awhile *g*.

    : ) P

  359. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335891"]re: …“Sylar in Hawaii” or “Attack of the Clone”?

    Are those two choices they passed over?

    (I was looking for a better assessment of the Fork-Outlet thingy)[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    It was an attempt at humor. My two suggestions were titles for the only ‘shocker’ for me…Beach Guy. Sylar the shape shifter or ‘attack’ of the ‘clone’ (BG’s attck on Jacob). LOL?

  360. Vincent_Is_My_Elvis says:

    Hello All. I’ve been reading these posts/theories for at least 2 full seasons but have never posted anything myself. This is primarily because I would have never come close to predicting anything on this show; however, I’ve always been very impressed with everyone else’s theories…so thank you.

    I have one question I am wondering if it has any significance at all or if this is just strange coincidence: Why do all the caucasion characters on the island have blue eyes?

  361. Vincent_Is_My_Elvis says:

    Hello All. I’ve been reading these posts/theories for at least 2 full seasons but have never posted anything myself. This is primarily because I would have never come close to predicting anything on this show; however, I’ve always been very impressed with everyone else’s theories…so thank you.

    I have one question I am wondering if it has any significance at all or if this is just strange coincidence: Why do all the caucasion characters on the island have blue eyes?

  362. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment="335846"][quote comment="335842"][quote comment="335817"]No one has mentioned that the sound of the metal
    Are Jacob and Fjohn both smoke monsters assuming human form?

    OK – Post 94. _I_ said it.
    I was just ignored.
    +++++++++++++++
    Are you guys trying to say that the smoke monster is the magnet pulling people down holes? I’m confused.[/quote]
    ###############
    Soory slugdoc. I do read them all before posting. I didn’t recall your mention, but maybe that’s what got me thinking.
    At first I thought maybe the incident created the smoke monster, since the bending metal sound was a physical occurence at the incident, but I believe Ben heard the noise as a little boy just beore he saw his pseudoMom. I assume Smokey has been there throughout the show.
    If those 2 noises are the same, there is some relationship, imo.
    Did the drill tap into Smokey’s Lair? Juliet looked like she was lying on the floor of a room, not a drill hole.

  363. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335812"]I think someone else mentioned this, but I didn’t see anyone else have anything to say about Llanas flashback with Jacob. It did appear that the two of them were friends already,(or something like that) she says, “I’m real glad to see you.” I’m guessing because she has been injured and she knows that Jacob can heal her.

    It was also mentioned that this scene seemed to be in another time, I’m not sure about this, but could that mean that Llana doesn’t age? …I just watched the first hour of this again , and I have even more questions than I did the first time.[/quote]
    Yeay, I think there is something going on with Ilana. In addition to that scene with Jacob, I thought that the scene where she meets Richard made it seem like she may be ageless. The way she said she’s looking for “Ricardus” (which would be a Latin version of Richard), and then Richard spoke to her in Latin, it made me think she has been affiliated with the Others/Hostiles for a very long time. And the way she said “I’m Ilana”, she sort of said it like she expected him to recognize the name. Almost like Ilana has been Jacob’s right hand (wo)man in the real world, while Richard has been Jacob’s right hand man on the island. I don’t know , maybe I’m reading too much into things.

  364. wingman says:

    @PJ Sander – I have to atleast stab myself a little…You had to be surprised too though because if I remember correctly you had problems with a scenario where 1 dood (or 2 doods) seemingly controlled everything..That’s why you wanted you thought he might be a hoax for another agenda…

    [quote comment="335894"]Absolute bollocks!With a capital B! I have never been so disappointed in all my life. I dont think there was anything in this episode to make me want to watch the next season..What a let down.[/quote]
    Well why I don’t share your same sentiments, I can understand why some will be harsh on this episode…I thought it was put together rather nicely in-terms of setting everything up…Thought Jack and Sawyer gave some of the most impressive performances in the history of the show for their characters, but I (although it may change) was not enamored with the fact that it appears Jacob and some dood are playing essentially a beach board game…I had hoped some practical explanations would be given for the reasons behind some of this (notable time travel), but Jacob being a real “GOD” of sorts has thrown me and myn expectations for a LOOP…

    P.S. If there are any fans of the show “Supernatural” (Which I watched the finale after LOST last night), I thought it was cool how both it and LOST ended with the white screen of death!My 2 fav shows ending in the same way was cool to me…

  365. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335876"]Code names? FDW – “Frozen Donkey Wheel”. I understand that one from last season finale. But “Fork In The Outlet”? I understand the electrocution = shocking! connection… but I don’t think anything in particular was that shocking… the Swan raid was expected… the Ben / Locke alliance was expected. The only thing that I can think of is that they finally showed us a Jacob, and his LOSTie connections – not really that shocking (IMHO). Or maybe the Locke is dead stuff. Anyone have any better finale “Code Name” clues?[/quote]
    I don’t think the codename “Fork in the Outlet” was intended to have any direct correlation to the events taht take place in the show. Remember that the codename was created by a viewer, and voted on by other viewers, who all presumably knew nothing about the finale. Also, remember that in season 1 finale I believe the codename was “the bagel”, and in season 2 I believe it was “the Challah” (sp?), and neither of those had anything to do with the events in the finale. Was it “snakes in a mailbox” for season 3? Again, nothing to do with the events in the finale. FDW worked last year because it was an outlandish term, noone could have guessed what it really pertained to.

  366. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="335907"]FDW worked last year because it was an outlandish term, noone could have guessed what it really pertained to.[/quote]
    For the record….DocH DID put FDW together…maybe didn’t know it would move the island…but he guessed it before it aired.

  367. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335908"][quote comment="335907"]FDW worked last year because it was an outlandish term, noone could have guessed what it really pertained to.[/quote]
    For the record….DocH DID put FDW together…maybe didn’t know it would move the island…but he guessed it before it aired.[/quote]
    __________________
    LOL I stand corrected. As I was typing “noone could have guessed” I was thinking, now watch, someone will prove me wrong.

    But I stand by the rest of my premise, that 4 of the 5 codenames have had no direct correlation to the events in the finale.

  368. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="335873"]I am still LOST about what really happened when Des turned the fail safe key. Pushing the button released the energy…not pushing it created the magnetic pull like just like we saw from drilling into the pocket.

    Turning the key created a white flash like Juliette detonating the bomb.

    Did Des turning the key detonate the bomb in 2004?[/quote]
    My guess is that Des turning the key in 2004 detonated a bomb, not the bomb. In other words, not the same bomb that we saw Juliet detonate, if that’s what your getting at.

    I think that in 1977, the only way that the electromagnetic forces could be stopped were to detonate that bomb. If the bomb didn’t go off, anything made of metal would have kept getting sucked into the pit, and the DI could never have gotten close enough to build the Swan station. But, having seen that the bomb was able to counteract the electromagnetic pull, Chang and Radzinsky must have used that knowledge and designed the Swan with a bomb as the “failsafe”, in the event the button didn’t get pushed in time.

    The events of the season 2 finale were very similar to the events of “The Incident”, so I believe that Juliet will be affected in the same way Desmond was affected (which I think others here have stated before).

  369. bolddeceiver says:

    I’ve read a bunch of this Jacob may be evil stuff and I’m not so sure his actions were necessarily evil. Yes Jacob’s interference in the lives of the oceanic survivors did keep many of them on a dark path, but if he does not do those things our heros never get to the island. If Kate does not lead a life of crime she will not get arrested and forced onto that plane, if Sawyer does not seek revenge he will not become the killer which eventually leads him to Sydney and on that plane, if Nadia does not die Sayid has no motive to kill for Ben and end up in custody. While these acts may be construed as evil it is possible that Jacob knew the only way to save the world was to ensure that these people made it to the island. If that is the case is he evil?

  370. slugdoc says:

    [quote comment="335902"]
    Did the drill tap into Smokey’s Lair? Juliet looked like she was lying on the floor of a room, not a drill hole.[/quote]

    1) OK – So, for the record, I am not either saying that Smokey is the magnet, that wouldn’t really make sense. I AM saying the for the last 5 seasons, I (and I’m sure all of you) have noticed that Smokey sounds pretty darn mechanical, with creaking metal and clanking chains and all.
    And when Juliette was pulled into the hole (much as Locke was pulled into the hole by Smokey) the sounds were EXACTLY the same.

    What do I make of it? I don’t know, what do YOU make of it?

    2)You are right — Where does she fall into?? It is not a simple drill hole — she falls into some chamber!

  371. Chang's arm says:

    Been a reader forever, but I finally had to post. After reading most of this blog, I find it incredible how people are just accepting this new thread of events. Jacob is the now the ultimate plot device, now almost all of the unexplained questions can have a default “Jacob did it” type of answer. This is extremely disappointing to me and as much as I love Lost I can’t believe how many people are just going with the flow on this. Jacob verses beach guy in a game of chance and time. Is this really what people wanted this show to REALLY be about? D&C, I love’em but they screwed the pooch on this one…I actually really believe them now when they say they had all this planned out, because ANYBODY could’ve come up with the idea of having some “God” level guys playing a game with our characters as the pieces. With that out of the way Season 6 should be easy as pie now.

  372. slugdoc says:

    As was touched on by other readers, I also happen to find the recent turn of events somewhat unsatisfying.

    While I do like the concept of all the islanders and losties just being pawns in a metaphysical psychological game by these god-like figures (parallel to the DI playing psychological experiment with the DI participants?),
    It does weaken all the intrigue and planning that had gone into the first 5 seasons.

    Who cares if Ben and Widmore have some evil plans for each other when Ben turns out to be a nobody, a pawn. Locke merely a vessel for a greater power. It just makes all these human worries and machinations seem so trivial, and if so, why did we spend so much time watching and obsessing about it?

    Know what I mean?

  373. The Kath says:

    [quote comment="335900"]Hello All. I’ve been reading these posts/theories for at least 2 full seasons but have never posted anything myself. This is primarily because I would have never come close to predicting anything on this show; however, I’ve always been very impressed with everyone else’s theories…so thank you.

    I have one question I am wondering if it has any significance at all or if this is just strange coincidence: Why do all the caucasion characters on the island have blue eyes?[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    Kate has green eyes

  374. Vincent_Is_My_Elvis says:

    [quote comment="335920"][quote comment="335900"]Hello All. I’ve been reading these posts/theories for at least 2 full seasons but have never posted anything myself. This is primarily because I would have never come close to predicting anything on this show; however, I’ve always been very impressed with everyone else’s theories…so thank you.

    I have one question I am wondering if it has any significance at all or if this is just strange coincidence: Why do all the caucasion characters on the island have blue eyes?[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    Kate has green eyes[/quote]
    ________________
    That was a lame answer…I’m unimpressed.

  375. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335921"][quote comment="335920"][quote comment="335900"]I have one question I am wondering if it has any significance at all or if this is just strange coincidence: Why do all the caucasion characters on the island have blue eyes?[/quote]
    ******************************************************

    Kate has green eyes[/quote]
    ________________
    That was a lame answer…I’m unimpressed.[/quote]

    – – – – – – – –

    Honestly, it was a pretty lame question and a reasonably good answer – because Evangeline Lilly DOES have green eyes.

    But if you want to take this apart, let’s look at our “main cast” for season five:

    Ben – caucasian – blue eyes
    Kate – caucasian – green eyes
    Sun – Asian
    Jin – Asian
    Hurley – Hispanic
    Sayid – Arabic
    Jack – caucasian – brown eyes
    Sawyer – caucasian – blue eyes
    Juliet – caucasian – blue eyes
    Desmond – caucasian – brown eyes
    Faraday – caucasian – brown eyes
    Miles – asian
    Charlotte – caucasian – blue eyes
    Locke – caucasian – hazel or blue or green, depending on the lighting

    So out of NINE caucasian cast members, THREE of them have blue eyes – four, if you count Terry O’Quinn. So yeah, not ALL of the cast has blue eyes.

    : ) P

  376. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="335905"]@PJ Sander – I have to atleast stab myself a little…You had to be surprised too though because if I remember correctly you had problems with a scenario where 1 dood (or 2 doods) seemingly controlled everything..That’s why you wanted you thought he might be a hoax for another agenda…[/quote]

    Well not exactly. I said that I thought it was a possibility that Jacob was not “real” BECAUSE one or two people were seemingly controlling those around them IN HIS NAME.

    I said: Jacob very well could be real, I am simply pointing out that he doesn’t HAVE to be.

    I also said: Christian, time-traveling, smoke-monsters, resurrection, self-healing, frozen-donkey-wheels, four-toed-statues, DHARMA sharks and polar bears, hurley birds, underground tunnels – they are all part of a mythology… things we do not yet understand fully. Jacob as the nice (convenient) god who can explain everything to us? That would be the cop-out in my opinion. If Jacob IS real, I hope he is as confused as we are.

    We know Jacob is real. I still stand behind the idea if he is the “reason” for EVERYTHING we have seen, it is a cop-out. (As others like slugdoc and Chang’s arm have said). I give the benefit of the doubt, though, given D&C haven’t disappointed me so far. I plan to give them seventeen more hours to prove they are still worthy of my adulation.

    : ) P

  377. fitty says:

    Because of the fact that Jacob’s nemesis has the ability to take the role of another person (Locke, it is very possible that the person who Jacob’s nemesis killed at the end of the finale was in fact NOT Jacob?

    It just seems that Jacob is too good to be killed off as if he is bad. Also, if you notice in the scene in which Jacob is reading a book outside of the building where Locke was thrown out of, he was reading a book by Flannery O’Connor called Everything That Rises Must Converge. The book is a book of short stories and focus on problems with the secular world and also how human weaknesses are exposed. I think this could signify that he put all these people on this island because they have a destiny which is to not end up like all prior members of the island.

    word

  378. The Kath says:

    great break down of eye color PJSander. Thanks!

  379. roses12 says:

    ok i will never believe D&C again. they lied about there being no biblical/progutory connection, about there being no alien connection about there being no time paradoxs – but I still love them.

    1. Def thought Juliete was preggers but seems irrelevant now.

    2. Agree something not quite right with Bernard/Rose meeting, but think D&C where laying rumours to rest about their health and whereabouts, won’t see them again till Adam&Eve.

    3. Cann’t believe I felt sorry for Ben. Jacob was an ass and I am glad Ben stuck it to him. Steve I am glad that I’m not the only one who thought Jacob was bad. I mean he manipulated Ben (and previous leaders) for his own end (probably some sick moral experiment), for a greater good that didnt even exist and then just like his father before him told him he was a waste of space.

    Other thoughts….I had it all sussed out Desmond didnt hit the buttons, 815 crashed by accident, numbers just the hatch serial code (altough that never rang true) no pre-determined destiny….now do you think Jacob got Black Rock, Ben, Losties, Alana, on his side or are they with Essau??

    just as you think its all sussed out…

    also I think the white flash was the hydrogen bomb going off, they build the Swan over it to contain it (reactes only partially because of magnatism(why Rad & C survive)they all have radiation suits, Des crashes on island….whh

    But why?????????????????????

  380. Jason says:

    [quote comment="335894"]Absolute bollocks!With a capital B! I have never been so disappointed in all my life. I dont think there was anything in this episode to make me want to watch the next season..What a let down.[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Didn’t see that one coming!

  381. roses12 says:

    box: as proof of D&C grand plan

    1. locke works in box factory.
    2. hurley “opens the box” when he uses the numbers to win lottery.
    3. Cooper comes out of the box.
    4. Dead locke rolls out of Llana’s box.

    See D&C had a plan all along, the clues are there. Proof its not all made up on the hoof. ;)

    But seriously irony that Locke has ended up in a box he so desparately wanted Ben to show him.

    Can’t be end of Locke’s journey, don’t feel the closure. i want closure. D&C closure.

  382. roses12 says:

    thanks for listening

  383. Steve says:

    It seemed that there was 30 or so years of peace on the island until the Losties show up. Man # 2 (Essau) was being proven wrong and Jacob was right about the nature of man. Man # 2 (Essau) Then takes on the familiar form of Jacob and goes out into the world and infects a number of people. by touching these people he infects them the same way that he infected Rousseau’s crew… in Effect Man #2 Cheated. He brings the infection to the island, and these infected folks become the leaders of the losties and influence the peace. All orchestrated by the jealous needs of Man # 2.

  384. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="335457"]Just wanted to add another thought connecting what Jacob’s companion said in the beginning (paraphrasing) “they come, they fight, they destroy” –

    maybe each time Jacob has brought people to the island, they did exactly that. Take, for example, Danielle’s group.

    But when Jack and O6ers arrived, it was different because Jack led (live together, die alone) and kept everyone from fighting.

    And just another random thought – remember when Claire told Kate in dream “don’t bring him back, don’t you ever bring him back” about Aaron, maybe she knew that Jacob’s evil companion would try to possess his body, a vessel.

    Even more on this, what if the lack of fertility on the island wasn’t the result of breaking the statue or radiation but that Jacob made it so because he knew the only way he could be killed is if evil companion (Esau) could possess a baby/child, could take human form? So if no babies were born on the island, so-called Esau would never be able to take human form; that is, until Ben killed John.[/quote]

    I don’t think Mr Black/Esau was just waiting for a dead body, as there has been lots up to now, losties, natives, dharma, he could have picked anyone. His daughter would have been the more obvious choice. why locke? why now? why didnt he bury the body?

  385. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="335888"]Richard in 2007 said he saw Jack etc die in 1977… so when did that happen? Or did he mean he saw them go to their death (when he left them with the H-bomb)? But he left only Jack and Sahid an the photo included all of them.[/quote]

    This show is always so vague all the time. I wonder if by “them all die” he didn’t mean the entire Dharma Initiative. Sun didn’t really point out who her friends were in the picture. I still dont quite understand why Sun is using this picture. Jin isn’t even in it.

  386. JZ says:

    a couple things that have been taking over my mind…

    1) alot of people have been referring the white light when juliette “set off the H-Bomb” and the failsafe key that Desmond turned were the same. THEY WEREN’T! Desmond turning the failsafe key caused a PURPLE SKY, not the white light we’ve known to be Time Travel.

    2) Flocke (fake locke) seems to still have old Locke’s conscience. He knew that the Hatch door was where he met Ben for the first time. Also, Flocke didn’t seem to know that Ben was told to follow Locke’s every move/command by Alex (smoke monster). I guess Flocke would have the ability to know all that happens assuming he does have higher power qualities.

    3) I’ve been obsessed with Desmond since the finale simply because we didn’t see him AT ALL (or the Widmores for that matter). We know that he is “miraculously special and the rules do not apply to him”. Reading on his Lostpedia page, he has an unnamed father (not to mention an unnamed mother) as well as 3 unnamed brothers. Desmond couldn’t finish school at the university because he had to take care of his brothers due to an unknown event that occured to his father. WHO ARE HIS PARENTS? WHERE DID HE COME FROM??

    4) There has been some speculation on other sites that Jacob DID NOT touch Sayid. Can anyone confirm that he did? I thought he tapped him on the shoulder, but can’t remember. It’d be interesting to know if he didn’t because at the end of the finale Sayid says “nothing can save me”.

  387. RGS says:

    [quote comment="336030"]
    This show is always so vague all the time. I wonder if by “them all die” he didn’t mean the entire Dharma Initiative. Sun didn’t really point out who her friends were in the picture. I still dont quite understand why Sun is using this picture. Jin isn’t even in it.[/quote]

    Moreover, Richard says something about Ben killing Locke and how he’s seen a lot of “crazy stuff” but not of someone coming back from the dead. However, he claims he watched Jack et. al die. Surely he’d seen Jack and company on the island in 2004 when they crashed. Wouldn’t Locke therefore be the second time he’d seen someone come back from the dead?

  388. RGS says:

    [quote comment="336039"]

    4) There has been some speculation on other sites that Jacob DID NOT touch Sayid. Can anyone confirm that he did? I thought he tapped him on the shoulder, but can’t remember. It’d be interesting to know if he didn’t because at the end of the finale Sayid says “nothing can save me”.[/quote]

    Jacob definitely touched Sayid on the shoulder. The questionable one may have been touching Jack. That would have been a little weird for some stranger to be rubbing my fingers when trying to get me a candy bar. Would’ve prompted a, “hey buddy, that’s not my type of thing” from me.

  389. RGS says:

    Chang’s Arm, you summarized my thoughts on the Jacob vs. Flocke character pretty well. I think that is what I meant by us not giving us the answers to major, majorish issues…is that the explanation (if any) won’t be something that will be good enough. Like they could say, “Jacob decided that there should be a fertility problem so that Juliette would be recruited, blah, blah, blah.”

    I mean yeah that’s acceptable, but I guess I’d be disappointed if that is the case.

    Also I thought the fertility problem happened after “The Incident” so it would seem to have little to do with the Statue (which appears to be an important location, yet we have no idea how it got reduced to a foot) because I’m assuming the statue had been down for quite some time.

  390. Mal says:

    [quote comment="335915"][quote comment="335902"]
    Did the drill tap into Smokey’s Lair? Juliet looked like she was lying on the floor of a room, not a drill hole.[/quote]

    1) OK – So, for the record, I am not either saying that Smokey is the magnet, that wouldn’t really make sense. I AM saying the for the last 5 seasons, I (and I’m sure all of you) have noticed that Smokey sounds pretty darn mechanical, with creaking metal and clanking chains and all.
    And when Juliette was pulled into the hole (much as Locke was pulled into the hole by Smokey) the sounds were EXACTLY the same.

    What do I make of it? I don’t know, what do YOU make of it?

    2)You are right — Where does she fall into?? It is not a simple drill hole — she falls into some chamber![/quote]

    I think that’s the result of a limited sound effects studio…

  391. Mal says:

    When Naomi recruits Miles, she tells him that he is needed so that he can speak to the dead body of a dangerous person. Who is this person she is talking about? Is it Jacob? We know (or we think) that Widmore is on Esau’s side… so perhaps they see Jacob as a dangerous man?

    Or, have we already seen this come to fruition and I just forgot about it?

  392. Former Employee says:

    Man in white is Jacob, Black is Esau from the bible.

    The struggle between Jacob and Esau began right from their conception and birth:

    “And Isaac entreated The Lord for his wife, because she was barren: and The Lord was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived. And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to inquire of The Lord. And The Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau. And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau’s heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.” (Genesis 25:21-26 KJV)

    Jacob made the hut and did live there pretending that was his only home to keep safe from Esau. Once Esau learned how to get into circle Jacob fleed to his ‘secret real home in the statue” hense why Esau had to have Richard take him to see him.

    Esau is the ‘smoke monster’. Esau was living in the hut; remember seeing Christian in there a few times??? Hense why they burned it!

    Esau is in a ‘spirit like state’ where he is waiting to be reborn “Aaron”. Remember that is why the guy in Austalia told Claire that seh has to raise him or he will feel once again abanded and not favored like the first time around from him mom.

    Season 6 will show Esau touching all the other people on the island that he needs there to throw the timline in his favor!

    The numbers equal the date and time that the ‘energy’ needs to be sent back to in time. The computer was set to do this once you punch in the date / time using only digits.

    I am doing this because i was let go due to ‘financial situations in the economy’ this means my NDA is now null avoid!

  393. sector7 says:

    Question I have is when did MIB take over Locke’s body? I get the loophole. It’s where MIB tells RA to tell Locke he has to die. That way MIB can always take over Locke’s body. But how does he take over Locke’s body and then there continues to be a dead Locke body?

    I think Jacob wanted Ben to kill him. Now Jacob can take over dead Locke’s body.

    Seems obvious that the losties will not die from the white screen. Also seems obvious the losties will be transported to 2007 from the white screen. Why would Jack, Sawyer & Kate survive being transported to 2007 but not Juliet? Unless she gets transported and then dies from her injuries.

    I’m somewhat disappointed like many of you that Jacob and MIB answer all the questions. Seems too convenient from a writing standpoint to be able to explain everything that way. However, I believe the writers can redeem themselves if they continue by taking it to yet another level of outlandishness. I mean they already opened the door with time travel — why not go ahead and introduce aliens or angels with wings carrying swords or alternate realities?

  394. wingman says:

    [quote comment="335925"][quote comment="335905"]@PJ Sander – I have to atleast stab myself a little…You had to be surprised too though because if I remember correctly you had problems with a scenario where 1 dood (or 2 doods) seemingly controlled everything..That’s why you wanted you thought he might be a hoax for another agenda…[/quote]

    Well not exactly. I said that I thought it was a possibility that Jacob was not “real” BECAUSE one or two people were seemingly controlling those around them IN HIS NAME.

    I said: Jacob very well could be real, I am simply pointing out that he doesn’t HAVE to be.

    I also said: Christian, time-traveling, smoke-monsters, resurrection, self-healing, frozen-donkey-wheels, four-toed-statues, DHARMA sharks and polar bears, hurley birds, underground tunnels – they are all part of a mythology… things we do not yet understand fully. Jacob as the nice (convenient) god who can explain everything to us? That would be the cop-out in my opinion. If Jacob IS real, I hope he is as confused as we are.

    We know Jacob is real. I still stand behind the idea if he is the “reason” for EVERYTHING we have seen, it is a cop-out. (As others like slugdoc and Chang’s arm have said). I give the benefit of the doubt, though, given D&C haven’t disappointed me so far. I plan to give them seventeen more hours to prove they are still worthy of my adulation.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ================

    Well my final thoughts are that I enjoyed the episode…Did I enjoy all of the revelations? No I didn’t, but I can step outside my personal bias and enjoy the actual execution of the ep (In terms of what it was trying to convey)…The whole Jacob being some real “God” –like dood and him playing a game with some beach dood, that’s really not the super-ingenious hidden story I’d been waiting for all this time (I honestly thought there would still be some level of practicality in the end)… I mean we’ve invested a lot into the Ben’s, the Locke’s and even recently Widmore & Eloise, and to find out that they are ALL potentially meaningless is I imagine a huge disappointment for some…But as much as it bothers me that they went this route, what bothers me more is that there is almost NOTHING in the previous seasons that you can watch that overtly points to this…I mean I’d love to go back to a S1 or S2 ep and see some guy standing there during one of the Losties bigtime flashbacks if only to validate 1 % of this…If this is the revelation they’ve been so paranoid hiding from us that they had planned all along, one has got to ask why there is almost no evidence that this ending was planned out…I think it’s kinda cheap sending your entire fanbase into the hiatus with the premise that 90% of what they’ve watched in the previous 5 seasons could be meaningless…After all that I gotta say S3 flashfoward is still the best season ending episode to me…

  395. wingman says:

    OH BTW, what happened to “Who got shot in the outrigger??”, Damn gotta wait 8 months for that too??

  396. slugdoc says:

    OK –
    Raise your hand if you think Season 6 will be the “Scooby Doo Reveal”.

    Turns out that Jacob was really in cahoots to make billions of dollars by betting on Microsoft and the Dallas Cowboys. The smoke machine, and Ben’s psychotic machinations were all just a ploy to get some time travelin going.

    And it would have worked, too, if it wasn’t for those damn kids!

  397. ScottIsLostWithoutLost says:

    Relax, people. I’m sure they’re not dead, or if they are, season 6 won’t take place in a world/time where they are all dead.

    There are TONS of ways they can still be alive. Think of all the times Darlton has zigged when we only imagined some variation of zag.

    After years of speculation about the nature of Jacob, who envisioned he would be an apparently regular human walking around and talking for 2 hours, and that he’d be the psycho from Dexter, living under the foot?

    WHAT are Esau and Jacob, really? And what is the island? Who are Adam and Eve? I love all this speculation every week, and I read all of it, but the answers for bigger questions like this usually come out of left field.

    Maybe Jughead was the bomb that was going to end all human life, and the “Gods” intervened. And although it’s tempting to think the main characters are related to the numbers, maybe Jughead is one of the numbers.

    This is my first post, thanks to everyone’s hard work in keeping my addled brain fairly straight as to what’s happening. Lost has probably been the hardest, most prolonged mental effort I’ve done since college.

    As for Jacob and Esau’s accents, maybe they sound like the listener wants to hear.

    Hanso = Esau? Hanso was very busy with his fleet; Esau feels more other-worldly and permanent than that. BUT – more than anything else, I REALLY want to see the Blackrock materialize into the island next year – then fight the people that show up on the other ship. Maybe all the slaves were released, and the handcuffed skeletons were prisoners?

    I wish we were all in a big resort to talk about this stuff until January.

  398. steve says:

    [quote comment="336072"][/quote]

    @392 –

    Nothing really new here

    1. Man in white is Jacob, Black is Esau from the bible. — Yup. Confirmed in the incident

    2.Esau is the ‘smoke monster’. Esau was living in the hut; — Yup – confirmed in the Incident

    3. Season 6 will show Esau touching all the other people on the island that he needs there to throw the timline in his favor! — yup. Even I stated this earlier in this and other blogs. He Cheated to prove Jacob wrong. But Rose and bernard were not infected by him and they get it right. Sybolic of the eventual friedship between Black and white as written in the bible.

    4. The numbers equal the date and time that the ‘energy’ needs to be sent back to in time — yup seen this one a few times.

    Just food for thought.

  399. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="336074"]
    Well my final thoughts are that I enjoyed the episode…Did I enjoy all of the revelations? No I didn’t, but I can step outside my personal bias and enjoy the actual execution of the ep (In terms of what it was trying to convey)…The whole Jacob being some real “God” –like dood and him playing a game with some beach dood, that’s really not the super-ingenious hidden story I’d been waiting for all this time (I honestly thought there would still be some level of practicality in the end)… I mean we’ve invested a lot into the Ben’s, the Locke’s and even recently Widmore & Eloise, and to find out that they are ALL potentially meaningless is I imagine a huge disappointment for some…But as much as it bothers me that they went this route, what bothers me more is that there is almost NOTHING in the previous seasons that you can watch that overtly points to this…I mean I’d love to go back to a S1 or S2 ep and see some guy standing there during one of the Losties bigtime flashbacks if only to validate 1 % of this…If this is the revelation they’ve been so paranoid hiding from us that they had planned all along, one has got to ask why there is almost no evidence that this ending was planned out…I think it’s kinda cheap sending your entire fanbase into the hiatus with the premise that 90% of what they’ve watched in the previous 5 seasons could be meaningless…After all that I gotta say S3 flashfoward is still the best season ending episode to me…[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    I may have confused what you mean…but I think that IF the ending is what you assumed (which I am not buying yet because we still have a full season of surprise) they HAVE pointed to Jacob being the puppet master since we first heard his name.

  400. Highlander says:

    1) So is Widmore on Mr. Black’s side? He’s not on Ilana/Brams side based on the conversation Bram had with Miles in the van…

    MAN IN VAN: [Amicably] Miles! My name’s Bram.

    MILES: You owe me a fish taco.

    BRAM: Sorry about that, but your apartment’s being watched. And we had to try our best to talk you out of working for Charles Widmore.

    MILES: I have no idea who that is.

    BRAM: He’s the man who chartered the boat you’ll be getting on next week. And, my friend, you do not want to get on that boat. Do you know what lies in the shadow of the statue?
    ……………………………….

    BRAM: You’re playing for the wrong team!

    MILES: Yeah? What team are you on?

    BRAM: The one that’s gonna win.

    2) Just because Fake Locke asks Ben what Smokie/Dead Alex said to him doesn’t mean that he didn’t know. He could be playing dumb to get Ben to kill Jacob for him.
    3) If Mr. Black is Smokie, perhaps smokie assesses whether the person will aid or obstruct (knowingly or unknowingly) his goal in killing Jacob?
    4) Very unbelievable that Sayid isn’t dead shortly after being shot in the stomach – especially with losing all that blood he should have passed out! And Jack goes and talks to Sawyer (for more than 5 minutes it seemed) while Sayid is left with Hurley and Miles and he’s alive AND talking AND works on the bomb! Also, Juliet should have been dead after that fall. Maybe they can’t die after all???

  401. Taylor says:

    I am broken-hearted over Juliette! SHE IS MY FAVORITE CHARACTER! She proved her heroic nature. But in the end (it seems) the island got her.

    By the way. The eye teaser is not her – – she has blue eyes and that eye is green. It could be Jack’s but aren’t his brown?

    Thanks for the great blog posts!

  402. Mal says:

    [quote comment="336092"]1) So is Widmore on Mr. Black’s side? He’s not on Ilana/Brams side based on the conversation Bram had with Miles in the van…

    [/quote]

    _____________

    I definitely think Widmore (and Eloise) are on MIB’s side. They do all they can to ensure that John gets back on the island… Eloise tells Jack that he must do what he can to help John, that John is special…

    Although, that raises a few questions… Widmore helps the alive John get the Losties back on the island… it is Ben who kills John so that he cannot return to the island and conitnue on his enlightened journey… and it is only through John’s dead body that MIB can overtake him. That takes me back to my theory that John has always been in cahoots with MIB (though unknowingly), and that him being dead severely enhances the process through which MIB can use John as a pawn… so Ben unkowingly helps this happen.

    And Widmore trying to help the alive John must know that John has been instructed that he must die, and that he will have a hard time getting the other Losties back on the Island, will feel like a failure, and will make sure that the prophecy “you have to die” will come true.

  403. wingman says:

    [quote comment="336089"][quote comment="336074"]
    Well my final thoughts are that I enjoyed the episode…Did I enjoy all of the revelations? No I didn’t, but I can step outside my personal bias and enjoy the actual execution of the ep (In terms of what it was trying to convey)…The whole Jacob being some real “God” –like dood and him playing a game with some beach dood, that’s really not the super-ingenious hidden story I’d been waiting for all this time (I honestly thought there would still be some level of practicality in the end)… I mean we’ve invested a lot into the Ben’s, the Locke’s and even recently Widmore & Eloise, and to find out that they are ALL potentially meaningless is I imagine a huge disappointment for some…But as much as it bothers me that they went this route, what bothers me more is that there is almost NOTHING in the previous seasons that you can watch that overtly points to this…I mean I’d love to go back to a S1 or S2 ep and see some guy standing there during one of the Losties bigtime flashbacks if only to validate 1 % of this…If this is the revelation they’ve been so paranoid hiding from us that they had planned all along, one has got to ask why there is almost no evidence that this ending was planned out…I think it’s kinda cheap sending your entire fanbase into the hiatus with the premise that 90% of what they’ve watched in the previous 5 seasons could be meaningless…After all that I gotta say S3 flashfoward is still the best season ending episode to me…[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    I may have confused what you mean…but I think that IF the ending is what you assumed (which I am not buying yet because we still have a full season of surprise) they HAVE pointed to Jacob being the puppet master since we first heard his name.[/quote]

    =======================

    No I’m not saying that I didn’t know or infer that the Jacob character wasn’t controlling things to some extent, I’m saying the previous season’s eps will in no way let you know Jacob vs. beach dude was the crux of this…Please show me the episodes that OVERTLY prepares you for this (The last 2 seasons have been setting up Ben v. Widmore)…I’m sure there were a lot of people going “Holy $hit this is just what I wanted” when they saw the opening scene, but I’m also sure there were an equal amount of people saying “Holy $hit this is exactly what I didn’t want the show to be about” (Currently deciding if I’m apart of that group, but I’m leaning that way) …

    You are now introducing a fair amount of omnipotence into the script IMO.
    How did everybody get to the island? : Jacob did it.
    What happened to Cindy and the kids?: Jacob did it
    How did Locke’s dad get to the island? : Jacob did it.
    How did the Black Rock get there? Jacob did it.
    Why doesn’t Richard age? : Jacob did it. (God what a great mystery that was until Richard goes “I’m this way because of Jacob”, sighs)

    You’ve just created an easily usable blanket to cover almost any mystery we’ve seen…
    To think everything that occurs in LOST is connected to this somewhat plain and rudimentary plot device is probably disappointing to non Kool-aid sippers…Now they may very well be setting us up again to flip everything on it’s head again, but I doubt it now…But I hope they do because I honestly was against the whole 2 guys playing a boardgame theory…All the 1977 stuff saved it for me…I thought Jack and Sawyer were amazing this episode…

  404. Locke is Jacob says:

    Great explination of the story Former Employee

    “I am doing this because i was let go due to ‘financial situations in the economy’ this means my NDA is now null avoid!”

    What does NDA mean? Thanks

  405. wallyp says:

    I don’t really grasp how Jacobs place in this story is a cop out. The last thing I was thinking,was that its too easy now! It doesn’t appear to me that he has any greater power over anyone else. I mean, he probably does, but I think his character is going to prove to be a lot more complex, and I think that the Black character even more so.

    To me, I felt that these characters fell right into place. I have always expected a spiritual aspect to this show above all others. I still don’t belive in time travel occuring in this story in your traditional Back to the futrure sense. I see it more as Scrooge “The shadows of the things that were” type sense. spiritual. To me these two characters are a personification of the spiritual aspect of the show, that will be crucial in wrapping the story in the end. So there.

  406. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336114"]Great explination of the story Former Employee

    “I am doing this because i was let go due to ‘financial situations in the economy’ this means my NDA is now null avoid!”

    What does NDA mean? Thanks[/quote]

    Non Disclosure Agreement. This poster claims to be a “former employee” who no longer works for the production and therefore no longer has to keep mum about what they know.

    I don’t really buy it.

    a) as I understand it, in television most NDA extend beyond employment

    b) Former Employee didn’t really add anything that hadn’t already been tossed out there in the last 48 hours

    c) everything that anyone knows about LOST (outside of the five main producers) has already aired.

    d) Season 6 has not begun production and none of the writers or producers who MIGHT be in the know have lost their jobs.

    So, yeah. Not buying it. Thanks for playing.

    : ) P

  407. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336117"]I don’t really grasp how Jacobs place in this story is a cop out. [/quote]

    Not sure who you are directing this at, wallyp, but I for one, only said it was a cop-out if Jacob is used as the explanation for EVERYTHING of mythos in the show. I suspect he is only an element as we have yet to determine where Hawking, Widmore and Hanso fit into the equation (not to mention Paik).

    : ) P

  408. Chang's arm says:

    To me it is a cop-out. To watch this show for 5 years only to find out it’s some cosmic game between 2 people makes me feel like I wasted a little of my life. Like wingman said you can shape and shift almost any question back to “Jacob did it” now. We all knew they wouldn’t have time to explain every mystery in the final season. With the Jacob plot device you’ve killed like 70% of the questions easily. Honestly though it’s just not that impressive of a plot revelation IMO. God-like people who can control time and stuff seems very unimaginative to me. I much rather the Time Travel aspect of the show.

  409. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336123"]To me it is a cop-out. To watch this show for 5 years only to find out it’s some cosmic game between 2 people makes me feel like I wasted a little of my life. Like wingman said you can shape and shift almost any question back to “Jacob did it” now. We all knew they wouldn’t have time to explain every mystery in the final season. With the Jacob plot device you’ve killed like 70% of the questions easily. Honestly though it’s just not that impressive of a plot revelation IMO. God-like people who can control time and stuff seems very unimaginative to me. I much rather the Time Travel aspect of the show.[/quote]

    I AGREE with you, but I think that you’re jumping ahead to “done” and I am not. When were we told that Jacob is responsible for everything? I don’t feel like he is any more of an element of the mythos than he was at the end of FtL. We just saw the face behind the myth. We are another layer closer to getting the answers, but I don’t think Jacob *IS* the answer.

    : ) P

  410. wingman says:

    I’m not gonna go as far as calling it a total cop-out, but I am worried….But even if D&C decide to turn all of this on it’s head, to begin an 8 month break with the premise of this show being 2 guys playing a game of fate, that’s tuff for some of us to swallow…Ya see I think that the camp that was heavy into the biblical aspect of the show probably loved this…The whole Ben or Locke equaling Job, Kane and Abel, etc.,; these guys probably think the show is going in the right direction…For the camp that was more about the pragmatic parts of the show, the logic behind Time travel phenomenon, and how Time Travel begets Time Travel were probably really thrown off by the developments…I was more in the camp of thinking the Time Travel element of the show is what created “Jacob” and the set of events that started our story…I was equally shocked and disappointed when my greatest fear hit me upside the head no less than 2 mins into the show when it was reveled Jacob was just some dood eating fish, controlling stuff like bringing the Black Rock to the island from a beach rock…So for those following a certain thread of revelations in the show, they were probably happy about this, but the other side of the coin is confused and hurt by the fact that much of what they invested in certain characters and plot-points may seem meaningless now…I honestly didn’t want Jacob to just be some dood we never saw before, and he was that and a bag of Dharma-chips…

  411. RGS says:

    [quote comment="336127"]I’m not gonna go as far as calling it a total cop-out, but I am worried….But even if D&C decide to turn all of this on it’s head, to begin an 8 month break with the premise of this show being 2 guys playing a game of fate, that’s tuff for some of us to swallow…Ya see I think that the camp that was heavy into the biblical aspect of the show probably loved this…The whole Ben or Locke equaling Job, Kane and Abel, etc.,; these guys probably think the show is going in the right direction…For the camp that was more about the pragmatic parts of the show, the logic behind Time travel phenomenon, and how Time Travel begets Time Travel were probably really thrown off by the developments…I was more in the camp of thinking the Time Travel element of the show is what created “Jacob” and the set of events that started our story…I was equally shocked and disappointed when my greatest fear hit me upside the head no less than 2 mins into the show when it was reveled Jacob was just some dood eating fish, controlling stuff like bringing the Black Rock to the island from a beach rock…So for those following a certain thread of revelations in the show, they were probably happy about this, but the other side of the coin is confused and hurt by the fact that much of what they invested in certain characters and plot-points may seem meaningless now…I honestly didn’t want Jacob to just be some dood we never saw before, and he was that and a bag of Dharma-chips…[/quote]

    Lol. I won’t go as far as to say I’ve potentially wasted time (foolish pride) and I was ok with Jacob being a new face, I was prepped for it. My fears became a reality when at the end of the show Jacob says “so you’ve found your loophole” and Flocke said something like, “indeed I have.”

    The reason I’m worried centers on the potentially sloppy writing that appears to be going on of late with either some of the inconsistent statements made by characters or, toss away lines that lead nowhere. It’s lending itself to the cop out of Jacob vs. the ShapeShifter and their abilities.

    Remember that person who set up that 10 page internet site, clearly written while “on something” that had thousands of people viewing it and picking up that theory about Dharma controlling time, well they probably should put a missing person report out on him, because this reveal probably made him put his head in an oven.

  412. Gen 24:6 says:

    a few observations:
    when Nadia said “take me home” reminded me of old christian hymns/gospel
    In the shadow of the statue reminds me of “in the shadow of the cross..” another gospel
    the answer: everyone needing a Savior

    What if Esau is Jacobs father and he must kill jacob to cause something or prevent something from happenning
    What if Flocke is not possessed but was persuaded by someone (wasn’t he missing soon after landing and didn’t he dissapear several times on the main island) that his destiny as the leader is to cause the death of Jacob. I know he talks to Jacob just like the conversation on the beach, but what if he was told to say that or he was told about the loophole.
    Ben = Judas – follower – in charge (Judas was keeper of the money and supplies) and turns on the master at the last minute because of selfish reasons.
    Finally, I just can’t figure out the purpose of the others throughout the ages. They seem to sit around in a camp and don’t do much. If it’s to protect the Island (then they make a treaty with Dharma??? but wipe out a vetran army unit???) If its to protect Jacob – they didn’t do a very good job of that either.
    just throwin some good fuel on the fire!

  413. Chang's arm says:

    @RGS LMMFAO…Oh he went postal! I’m betting if anyone mentions Jacob around him they immediately get socked in the mouth no questions^^…That dood had some great theories though…The best theory (which i think originated from there) was the idea that you can’t age until you catch-up with yourself (If you’re a time-traveler)…

    When Richard said “Jacob made him that way” I was like “Oh Jesus this is THE plot device…” All the good stuff about Locke losing his paralysis and Rose losing her cancer because when they landed on the island it was in a past time where they weren’t afflicted, now gets passed off to Jacob or the Flip-flop phantom just using island magic to pick and choose who lives, who can walk, who gets sick…That’s not what I wanted this show to be about, but I still love LOST, just kinda dissapointed things went so against what I had hoped, but I’m just some douche on the internet so I’ll deal…

  414. wally p says:

    [quote comment="336123"]To me it is a cop-out. To watch this show for 5 years only to find out it’s some cosmic game between 2 people makes me feel like I wasted a little of my life. Like wingman said you can shape and shift almost any question back to “Jacob did it” now. We all knew they wouldn’t have time to explain every mystery in the final season. With the Jacob plot device you’ve killed like 70% of the questions easily. Honestly though it’s just not that impressive of a plot revelation IMO. God-like people who can control time and stuff seems very unimaginative to me. I much rather the Time Travel aspect of the show.[/quote]

    I didn’t like Time Travel when they introduced it… well, actually I loved it at first when they did it in “Flashes” and “The Constant” with Desmond, but I was bummed out when they first mentioned time travelling bunnies. But as D&C put it at the beggining of season five, time travel was always in the thread of the story… I feel the same way about Jacob and the dude dude… black and white stones etc. I got into time travel right off, and I think that they expanded the story well enough, so I wasn’t so crushed when it turned out that “time travel did it.” I feel like we still barely scratched the surface about who or what Jacob is about. To me it seems that he is some sort of advocater for humans from a higher realm, and there must be some sort of “rules” to how much he can protect the human race… how much it needs to be free will that protects the human race, I could see Jacob being the cause of time travel, but ultimately I think it comes down to free will being considered the weakness (evil maybe?) of humans, and that is what Jacob is trying to prove wrong, or advocate for… I dunno what, but I’m sure there’ll be a hundred questions that wont be easily answered with “Jacob did it.” PLus, hell, Jacob could already be dead, and then the device would be more like “it doesn’t matter what Jacob did…cuz he’s dead”

  415. wingman says:

    Well I just watched the episode for the 3rd time, and it’s clear to me that there are some problems…Where the hell was Ben taking Locke in the original “Jacob’s Cabin” episode? Did Ben just stumble upon a cabin in the woods one day and decided he was gonna use that Cabin as his fake Jacob hideout? And if that’s not the case then why would he just bring Locke to a cabin he used to pretend Jacob was there but coincidentally enuff a “Real Jacob like creature” lived there?? (obviously now we can conclude it was beach dood in the cabin)Then the whole deal with the cabin moving in time or not moving in time…How would Ben no NOTHING about that, yet still use that as his fake Cabin? And don’t give me beach dood was setting Ben up for years in his ultimate plan to kill Jacob because according to Ben this ep, no one was in the chair, and Ben had never seen anyone so that person can’t be manipulating him…

    Man, they retconned that by making Ben say it was all a sham…There’s no reason to make Ben take Locke to a fake cabin he had used previous times (According to Alex about Ben’s walkabouts)and have him talk to a chair (THAT ACTUALLY HAD A BEING IN IT)if they didn’t originally intend for the person in that chair to be Jacob (or main mystery guy whomever)…

    With the real Jacob living in the foot, and Ben’s stark admission of it all being a ploy, it’s clear that they did a quick fix retcon of that…

    I understand if some think this is overkill, but watch that scene again and convince me that Ben knew for a fact that nobody was in that cabin…It’s impossible, definite plothole…I’m sorry guys, i do admit i am kinda bitter about the whole Jacob and his buddy being galaxy game-board players (so i am showing my bias), but the more I watch this ep, the more it seems like “Making stuff up as it goes along” (Which beach dood Locke ironically says Richard is doing with his arbitrary rules)…

    Ugh, LOST I love you so much, why are you fragging plotlines to make thing convenient? I’m gonna be fair and say it’s the end-date that has forced them to change the intended story so much…That’s what I believe after this ep…

  416. Mateo says:

    [quote comment="336147"]Well I just watched the episode for the 3rd time, and it’s clear to me that there are some problems…Where the hell was Ben taking Locke in the original “Jacob’s Cabin” episode? Did Ben just stumble upon a cabin in the woods one day and decided he was gonna use that Cabin as his fake Jacob hideout? And if that’s not the case then why would he just bring Locke to a cabin he used to pretend Jacob was there but coincidentally enuff a “Real Jacob like creature” lived there?? (obviously now we can conclude it was beach dood in the cabin)Then the whole deal with the cabin moving in time or not moving in time…How would Ben no NOTHING about that, yet still use that as his fake Cabin? And don’t give me beach dood was setting Ben up for years in his ultimate plan to kill Jacob because according to Ben this ep, no one was in the chair, and Ben had never seen anyone so that person can’t be manipulating him…

    Man, they retconned that by making Ben say it was all a sham…There’s no reason to make Ben take Locke to a fake cabin he had used previous times (According to Alex about Ben’s walkabouts)and have him talk to a chair (THAT ACTUALLY HAD A BEING IN IT)if they didn’t originally intend for the person in that chair to be Jacob (or main mystery guy whomever)…

    With the real Jacob living in the foot, and Ben’s stark admission of it all being a ploy, it’s clear that they did a quick fix retcon of that…

    I understand if some think this is overkill, but watch that scene again and convince me that Ben knew for a fact that nobody was in that cabin…It’s impossible, definite plothole…I’m sorry guys, i do admit i am kinda bitter about the whole Jacob and his buddy being galaxy game-board players (so i am showing my bias), but the more I watch this ep, the more it seems like “Making stuff up as it goes along” (Which beach dood Locke ironically says Richard is doing with his arbitrary rules)…

    Ugh, LOST I love you so much, why are you fragging plotlines to make thing convenient? I’m gonna be fair and say it’s the end-date that has forced them to change the intended story so much…That’s what I believe after this ep…[/quote]

    Wingman, you seem very intelligent and an avid blog poster here, but you do realize you are basing your whole argument on the assumption Ben is telling the truth, dont you? FYI .. Ben is a liar ;)

  417. Mateo says:

    P.S.
    Kudos to the makeup crew on using the scar on the face of the actor for John Locke, making it a cut in the initial plane crash in the beginning of the whole series and slowly fade it to his real scar/wrinkle…. however i agree with a previous poster of this episode, the makeup crew did a half ass job this time, when Jack & sawyer are done fighting jack was just smeared with fake looking red paint for blood, no cuts, dirt, scratches,.. nada. I only bring this up hoping that someone on LOST reads this and makes the makeup more believable for last season(though I highly doubt any crew members read these posts).

  418. wingman says:

    Mateo, point out the flaw please…Don’t just throw me a bone, if you think I’m wrong, then specifically point out the flaw in that breakdown…Ben has no reason, or motive to lie at the end of this episode, and he gets to kill Jacob (When has Ben ever lied for NO PURPOSE–He’s not the leader anymore and he thinks his dead daughter has vowed to kill him, he has no leverage, yet gets to kill Jacob?? His “tormentor”?–So why is he lying?? There’s nothing to be gained, but death via dead Alex)…The only reason for him to lie to Locke would be him now knowing fake Locke was the fake Cabin Jacob who had manipulated him all along (and we both know that isn’t the case because he never saw “Jacob”)…Ben comes clean in front of Jacob which furthers the claim he has no motive or leverage…At a point you gotta take stuff for what it is despite LOST’s deceptive nature as a show…

  419. Arturo says:

    Here is what I think, since we all need explanation of the statue and the smokey and all the egyptian influence. I believe and hope that when Juliet denonated the bomb, they will end up in the past!! In the very far past, before the statue is built!! The will cause events in the far past, maybe 4000 years ago, that will eventually get the statue built in honor of one of them, I guess it will be Juliet or Kate, cuz the statue looks female even if it is sobek. I guess, it will be Juliet because when she fell down, maybe one of her toes got cut off. Anyway, if they do end up in the past, I hope we will see the explanation of the whole island and why it exists and who built the statue!! Can;t wait until 2010!!!!!

  420. GuttahMan says:

    Just a little observation, not sure if its been mentioned yet….

    Ive been reading alot of comments about the 2 “skeletons” in the cave (adam and eve), and how many people are speculating that they are Bernard and Rose. After the finale, im not so sure about this…What if the “adam and eve” are really Jacob and “Esau”? It would explain the black and white stones and the opening scene of the finale shows that they have been on the island for a very long time. I think both Jacob and Esau are variations of the smoke monster and can “morph” (for lack of better term) into whomever they want. So Ben stabbing Jacob really doesnt mean much since Jacob is more than likely a spirit that can take over another body….

  421. Hammer says:

    Wingman, I diagree that the cabin was never inhibited by the real Jacob. Ilana et al went straight there to show Jacob Locke’s body. We know SHE has had direct contact with Jacob because of the scene with her in bandages and Jacob asking for her help. Hence, Jacob used to ‘hang’ there. The broken ash ring is what tips them off that he isn’t there anymore and then head to the statue.

  422. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="336202"]Just a little observation, not sure if its been mentioned yet….

    Ive been reading alot of comments about the 2 “skeletons” in the cave (adam and eve), and how many people are speculating that they are Bernard and Rose. After the finale, im not so sure about this…What if the “adam and eve” are really Jacob and “Esau”? It would explain the black and white stones and the opening scene of the finale shows that they have been on the island for a very long time. I think both Jacob and Esau are variations of the smoke monster and can “morph” (for lack of better term) into whomever they want. So Ben stabbing Jacob really doesnt mean much since Jacob is more than likely a spirit that can take over another body….[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    I like the thought process…but Jack’s training (which I choose to rely on) tell him one of the skeletons is female.

  423. Mal says:

    Wingman, all of your disappointment and anger comes from assumption that Esau and Jacob are playing a galactical game. You don’t know this to be true.

    Yes, it’s a slight possibility… and it’s a plot device used often in literature… but we don’t know for sure that this is the case with Lost. There is more to the story than just a “game”, and there is more at stake than just a “winner” or “loser”. There is the possibility that the world will end, and that is what our characters are fighting for. Furthermore, we don’t know what happened to our characters at the Swan Station, we don’t know how Widmore and Eloise fit into the story, we don’t know how the Dharma Initiative fits in, we still don’t know how any of the characters fit into the story, and we still don’t know a lot of their motivations. And, who are the Others?! We still don’t know. And the answers are going to be more complex than “because Jacob said so”.

    The writers aren’t going to be as lazy as you assume. If the answer IS “because Jacob wanted it”, they still have to explain WHY and HOW. IF Jacob and Esau ARE playing a game, don’t you want to know why? Don’t you want to know what the stakes are? They can’t play everything off as “Because Jacob says so” without giving an explanation. The writers still have to use their creative minds to make the story work and to make everything fit together nicely.

    We have the border of puzzle put together, but the inside pieces are important too. Have faith, I think there is joy in store for you next season.

  424. GuttahMan says:

    [quote comment="336212"][quote comment="336202"]Just a little observation, not sure if its been mentioned yet….

    Ive been reading alot of comments about the 2 “skeletons” in the cave (adam and eve), and how many people are speculating that they are Bernard and Rose. After the finale, im not so sure about this…What if the “adam and eve” are really Jacob and “Esau”? It would explain the black and white stones and the opening scene of the finale shows that they have been on the island for a very long time. I think both Jacob and Esau are variations of the smoke monster and can “morph” (for lack of better term) into whomever they want. So Ben stabbing Jacob really doesnt mean much since Jacob is more than likely a spirit that can take over another body….[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    I like the thought process…but Jack’s training (which I choose to rely on) tell him one of the skeletons is female.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    I must have missed when Jack determined one of the skeletons was a female….Thanks Hammer, you just gave me a reason to go back and watch season 1 again! LOL

  425. Mal says:

    And, for those of you who have groaned at the biblical references, and who fear that the fate of our characters is sealed along with the fate of biblical characters… it’s called allusion. It’s not called plot copycat. The writers of Lost are borrowing plot devices such as conflict, style, motif, and even names from many, many things. The bible is quite obvious, especially as of late, but there are also allusions to The Iliad, Paradise Lost, and Egyption mythology, to name a few. So don’t grumble when you see that Ben is playing the role of Job, because he is also playing the roles of many characters from works that have used that theme before. And if you think the Island is the Garden of Eden, you are wrong; it is what the Garden of Eden represents.

    And don’t grumble thinking that you know the outcome to this story because you know the outcome of Paradise Lost. The creators of Lost are wielding (or weaving!!) a web filled with allusions to some of the best works of literature in history, but the outcome is their own. We don’t know how Lost is going to end. Lost is its own work of literature.

  426. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="336158"]Here is what I think, since we all need explanation of the statue and the smokey and all the egyptian influence. I believe and hope that when Juliet denonated the bomb, they will end up in the past!! In the very far past, before the statue is built!! The will cause events in the far past, maybe 4000 years ago, that will eventually get the statue built in honor of one of them, I guess it will be Juliet or Kate, cuz the statue looks female even if it is sobek. I guess, it will be Juliet because when she fell down, maybe one of her toes got cut off. Anyway, if they do end up in the past, I hope we will see the explanation of the whole island and why it exists and who built the statue!! Can;t wait until 2010!!!!![/quote]
    this is my favorite theory…cos we would have a complete picture. cool. wld overcome the whole Jacob did it cop out. Give us a back story to RA & natives & black rock. Jacob & Essau/Flocke/Mr Black may even be at logger heads cos of our losties.

  427. roses12 says:

    only issues with last post…of course there are… is that Eliose is set up for a big part, Hurley is set up to be special (have always loved my man) and Widmore’s life on the island needs telling. But mostly two major issues:

    1. if the 70s losties have changed the past then present Flocke could not have got Ben to kill Jacob.

    2. Just dont have closure on the whole Faraday trying to fix the time travel thing, future self crying at tv, girlfriend in time warp, bunnies/chang recordings.

    Unless D&C resolve this by having 3 timelines running concurrently, eygptian time, army camp time and present time. That would worthy of lost.

  428. Arturo says:

    [quote comment="336234"]only issues with last post…of course there are… is that Eliose is set up for a big part, Hurley is set up to be special (have always loved my man) and Widmore’s life on the island needs telling. But mostly two major issues:

    1. if the 70s losties have changed the past then present Flocke could not have got Ben to kill Jacob.

    2. Just dont have closure on the whole Faraday trying to fix the time travel thing, future self crying at tv, girlfriend in time warp, bunnies/chang recordings.

    Unless D&C resolve this by having 3 timelines running concurrently, eygptian time, army camp time and present time. That would worthy of lost.[/quote]

    Yes three time lines!
    That will be awesome! That will explain everything, and what a show it will be!

  429. wingman says:

    [quote comment="336209"]Wingman, I diagree that the cabin was never inhibited by the real Jacob. Ilana et al went straight there to show Jacob Locke’s body. We know SHE has had direct contact with Jacob because of the scene with her in bandages and Jacob asking for her help. Hence, Jacob used to ‘hang’ there. The broken ash ring is what tips them off that he isn’t there anymore and then head to the statue.[/quote]
    =================
    Hammer I never said Jacob could or was never in the cabin…All I said was “Why would he just bring Locke to a cabin he used to pretend Jacob was there but coincidentally enuff a “Real Jacob like creature” lived there?? (Obviously now we can conclude it was beach dood in the cabin)…He’s talking to a chair PRETENDING someone is in it for his show to Locke, but SOMEHOW someone really is in that chair…

    @ Mal – what I have said is that the PREMISE of it all being a game is something I do not like…It takes all the practicality out of the show…Am I bat$hit angry about all of this? No, not at all…Am I disappointed the show has gone this route? Yes, I kinda am….I never like the boardgame theory and I still don’t…I think it’s cheap because you can come up with seemingly anytype of story filled with complexities and have the final season being “God-like” characters capable of controlling major details, or have some state of omnipotence or omnipresence…That PREMISE is what I don’t like…Obviously I still love LOST (Wouldn’t be this moved if I wasn’t), and I will give them a chance to re-hook me on this idea, but seeing it as is puts into question so many elements of the show prior to this (There’s no way I’m the only one feeling this way)…

    One of the biggest mysteries in the show (Richard’s aging), in 1 foul swoop gets placed on Jacob’s power to “make him that way”…Esau McFlipflops clearly states to Jacob about the Black Rock “You brought them here…” which denotes an ability to summon or get people to the island…McFlipFlops is either a shape-shifter, the smoke monster, or both (which could easily explain a HUGE CHUNK of the phenomenon on the island)…

    Understand Mal, I am no fool, and while I am a little bitter I wouldn’t go off on a tangent just because of that…Despite everything you’ve said, we as an audience, have been left with the PREMISE of this show now being a board-game of sorts between 2 players…Until next season when they’ll be evidence to re-shape it, that is what we are left with…I’m just voicing my personal disappointment with that being the intended coarse now…

  430. bondinferno says:

    After I watched the finale I decided to start re-watching the series, and in like the second episode Locke teaches Walt about back gammon. And right there, “there are two pieces one light, one Dark”, and it immediately made me think of the opening scene of the finale, with Jacob and the other dude in black and white. Maybe these guys are playing one big game of backgammon? Anythoughts, anybody know more about backgammon? Another theory I was wondering is if the Anti-Jacob dude can only take on other forms if they are dead, so when Alex talks to Ben its really the other guy, when Christian talks to Locke its really the other guy, and he sets them all on this quest so that he can kill Jacob. Also is it possible that this other Guy is the smoke monster, the smoke monster is black,?

  431. Jay says:

    [quote comment="335265"]I was thinking when Jacob “died” that it was a “Lion, Witch, Wardrobe” moment – where Aslan “lets” the evil witch “kill” him, thinking she was now going to have free reign over Narnia (she also had to find a loophole in order to do it – getting Edmond to be a traitor) but REALLY she was releasing the “deeper magic” – making Aslan more powerful than ever, and overcoming death. With all the CS Lewis references, I think this will come into play here. Jacob will not stay dead. “Esau” has FAKED an overcoming of death all this time, but Jacob will do it for real.[/quote]
    ***
    I agree! I think that Hugo’s “guitar” given by Jacob is the key.

  432. Christie says:

    I don’t know if this has already been discussed, but I think that Smokey/Esau/whoever/ can only possess bodies on the island when they haven’t been buried. Christian, Alex, Eko’s brother, and Locke were all corpses that were not buried. And all the Dharma bodies were just tossed in that shallow grave. The losties buried their own people and none of them have come back.

  433. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336288"]I don’t know if this has already been discussed, but I think that Smokey/Esau/whoever/ can only possess bodies on the island when they haven’t been buried. Christian, Alex, Eko’s brother, and Locke were all corpses that were not buried. And all the Dharma bodies were just tossed in that shallow grave. The losties buried their own people and none of them have come back.[/quote]
    ______________________
    …none of them have come back YET! hahahaha nikki and paolo need a return…what the heck was that story in there for?!?!?!

  434. GuttahMan says:

    [quote comment="336294"][quote comment="336288"]I don’t know if this has already been discussed, but I think that Smokey/Esau/whoever/ can only possess bodies on the island when they haven’t been buried. Christian, Alex, Eko’s brother, and Locke were all corpses that were not buried. And all the Dharma bodies were just tossed in that shallow grave. The losties buried their own people and none of them have come back.[/quote]
    ______________________
    …none of them have come back YET! hahahaha nikki and paolo need a return…what the heck was that story in there for?!?!?![/quote]

    What about Liby and Ana Lucia? they came back to see Hurley…im pretty sure they were buried…could be wrong though

  435. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336297"][quote comment="336294"][quote comment="336288"]I don’t know if this has already been discussed, but I think that Smokey/Esau/whoever/ can only possess bodies on the island when they haven’t been buried. Christian, Alex, Eko’s brother, and Locke were all corpses that were not buried. And all the Dharma bodies were just tossed in that shallow grave. The losties buried their own people and none of them have come back.[/quote]
    ______________________
    …none of them have come back YET! hahahaha nikki and paolo need a return…what the heck was that story in there for?!?!?![/quote]

    What about Liby and Ana Lucia? they came back to see Hurley…im pretty sure they were buried…could be wrong though[/quote]
    _______________________
    you are totally right! but hurley is kind of special in that he see’s alot of dead people (charlie also) and i guess we are talking about the walking around and talking and the actions of the “dead people” ON the island…i dunno

  436. jpa says:

    A couple of thoughts from a long-time reader, first-time poster:

    1) It seems the fire that burned down the cabin may come into play in S6. Lapidus’ comment…something like, “I’m not a tree-hugger, but isn’t that a good way to set the whole jungle on fire?”…doesn’t seem to be just thrown in… Also, interesting parallel between the cabin in flames and Jacob in the fire.

    2) Interesting to me that many have assumed that Juliette did, indeed, set off the bomb. True, the screen turns white after her last hit…but, could it simply be the ‘culmination’ of tapping the energy, rather than the bomb going off? The noise and strength of the energy seemed to get stronger and stronger…. Maybe the white light is when the energy reaches its max. Not sure I could guess how that would affect the story, but just a thought.

    A lot of great posts and theories out there. Thanks for the discussion.

  437. steve says:

    Does anyone else have a take on the function of the cabin. Just the way Ilana says “He isn’t there, hasn’t been in a long time. Someone else has been using it. Burn it.” It made think that the cabin was more then a drafty place to live. burning it down dismantled its functionality thus depriving whomever was using it the abilities that the cabin afforded.

    Any thoughts?

  438. Missy says:

    Something occurred to me this morning – I’ve read all the posts and don’t recall seeing anything about this yet. The loophole – Could it be all about the shoes?

    If non-jacob/non-locke was trapped and using the cabin, and if the ash was keeping him in, and if someone broke the ash circle on purpose, and he then began using Christian Shepherd’s body to manipulate the losties, could his loophole involve his spirit passing from Christian’s body to John’s have something to do with Jack putting his father’s shoes on John while off the island? And who’s side does that put Hawking on – Jacob or non-Jacob? Could she be deceived like so many have been?

    Commenting on Christie in 432 – I do think that the importance of burying the bodies has to do with non/Jacob “using” them. Everyone (darhma, keamy, others) but the losties know this rule – okay, Rousseau didn’t know either. That could explain what happened to the folks that got sucked under the temple…and hmm who have we seen live there? Smokey!

    So can the loophole be the shoes, or do you think it’s something else?

  439. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336308"]Does anyone else have a take on the function of the cabin. Just the way Ilana says “He isn’t there, hasn’t been in a long time. Someone else has been using it. Burn it.” It made think that the cabin was more then a drafty place to live. burning it down dismantled its functionality thus depriving whomever was using it the abilities that the cabin afforded.

    Any thoughts?[/quote]
    ______________________

    I’m wondering if this was howJ acob gets on and off the island or how he time travels on the island. It was my initial thought since the other person was occupying the cabin that maybe they were exploiting it…oooo maybe widmore uses it!

    Another thought I had was that it was some kind of prison (as many have speculated here before). Who was imprisoning who is the question!

    Does anyone think that the cabin rose and bernard used was his? I don’t like to this so but it seems a bit impossible that those two could have built that cabin. Also, we see in a “vision” or “flashback” of some kind that Horace actually builds that cabin. Maybe that is a red herring of sorts.

    Thoughts???

  440. FrankS says:

    Just wanted to comment on Missy’s comment 355:
    about Jacob’s mingling with the losties setting them on negative path: why can’t it be considered that his mingling actually moved them on a positive path? For example, little Kate doesn’t get in trouble for stealing a lunchbox because Jacob covers for her. This means she doesn’t get in trouble at home (beaten by mother or stepfather). What if this change means Kate doesn’t become a thief, a liar, a killer? Remember, Jacob says to her: ‘you’ll be good, right Kate?’ Similarly, Jacob’s interaction with James Ford – what if giving him the pencil to complete the letter was Jacob’s way have Jimmy vent on paper and sort of get the anger out? that, coupled with the comments made by the other gentleman: couldn’t those together make James Ford not be bitter and hateful?

    I think there’s a possibility that these are not flashbacks from the timeline we know of the show; rather, they might be flashes of actions that will be taken on a different timeline so that there is a different result – a good kate, a mellower James ford, and a more understanding Jack who does not lash out when someone questions him.

  441. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336315"]Does anyone think that the cabin rose and bernard used was his? I don’t like to this so but it seems a bit impossible that those two could have built that cabin. Also, we see in a “vision” or “flashback” of some kind that Horace actually builds that cabin. Maybe that is a red herring of sorts.

    Thoughts???[/quote]
    R&B’s cabin is not Jacob’s cabin.

    Rose and Bernard might be “retired” but they’re not invalids. They had THREE YEARS to build their cabin, so no, I don’t think it is impossible that they did it.

    Locke had a dream that he spoke to Horace while Horace was building a cabin – which we assumed was Jacob’s cabin. Horace’s nose was bleeding and he chopped the same tree down three times. Horace may well have built a cabin, and it might have been Jacob’s cabin, but it might just have been the way for Locke to figure out where to get the map to the cabin.

    : ) P

  442. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="335762"]The first time John “meets” Jacob is when Ben takes him to that cabin in the woods. They don’t see anybody but John hears someone say “help me”. Perhaps Jacob really is dead but it’s possible for Locke to help him (or save him) in the past. Perhaps that’s why all the stuff started whipping around in the cabin. Jacob was there in some spiritual form and was trying to hurt (kill?) Ben because he knows that in the future, Ben is going to stab him. Maybe they will go back/forward in time and John will have the chance to save Jacob. Maybe Jacob saying “they’re coming” to the fake John Locke means that the Oceanic group are coming back in time to start over and perhaps somehow save him from being killed.[/quote]
    ——————————————————————–

    When Locke and Ben are in the cabin, and stuff starts flying everywhere, Ben grabs the rocking chair and yells at Jacob to stop it.

    Ben then gets thrown against the wall. Right after ben hits the wall, I paused it, and for 3 frames you can actually see a guy sitting in the chair.

    The guy has kind of longish hair, and doesnt look like the Jacob we’ve met at all……..Beleive me, he’s there.

  443. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336319"][quote comment="336315"]Does anyone think that the cabin rose and bernard used was his? I don’t like to this so but it seems a bit impossible that those two could have built that cabin. Also, we see in a “vision” or “flashback” of some kind that Horace actually builds that cabin. Maybe that is a red herring of sorts.

    Thoughts???[/quote]
    R&B’s cabin is not Jacob’s cabin.

    Rose and Bernard might be “retired” but they’re not invalids. They had THREE YEARS to build their cabin, so no, I don’t think it is impossible that they did it.

    Locke had a dream that he spoke to Horace while Horace was building a cabin – which we assumed was Jacob’s cabin. Horace’s nose was bleeding and he chopped the same tree down three times. Horace may well have built a cabin, and it might have been Jacob’s cabin, but it might just have been the way for Locke to figure out where to get the map to the cabin.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ___________________________

    I’m just wondering if that whole dream was just an illusion….and plus that “map” in Horace’s pocket wasn’t a map…it was the blueprint to build the cabin.

  444. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336322"][quote comment="335762"]The first time John “meets” Jacob is when Ben takes him to that cabin in the woods. They don’t see anybody but John hears someone say “help me”. Perhaps Jacob really is dead but it’s possible for Locke to help him (or save him) in the past. Perhaps that’s why all the stuff started whipping around in the cabin. Jacob was there in some spiritual form and was trying to hurt (kill?) Ben because he knows that in the future, Ben is going to stab him. Maybe they will go back/forward in time and John will have the chance to save Jacob. Maybe Jacob saying “they’re coming” to the fake John Locke means that the Oceanic group are coming back in time to start over and perhaps somehow save him from being killed.[/quote]
    ——————————————————————–

    When Locke and Ben are in the cabin, and stuff starts flying everywhere, Ben grabs the rocking chair and yells at Jacob to stop it.

    Ben then gets thrown against the wall. Right after ben hits the wall, I paused it, and for 3 frames you can actually see a guy sitting in the chair.

    The guy has kind of longish hair, and doesnt look like the Jacob we’ve met at all……..Beleive me, he’s there.[/quote]
    _________________________

    I believe that the actor you see there is a crewmember of LOST. I don’t think they had casting yet for Jacob and had to use somebody. D&C mentioned this but who knows if they were telling the truth.

  445. Mal says:

    [quote comment="336314"]Something occurred to me this morning – I’ve read all the posts and don’t recall seeing anything about this yet. The loophole – Could it be all about the shoes?

    If non-jacob/non-locke was trapped and using the cabin, and if the ash was keeping him in, and if someone broke the ash circle on purpose, and he then began using Christian Shepherd’s body to manipulate the losties, could his loophole involve his spirit passing from Christian’s body to John’s have something to do with Jack putting his father’s shoes on John while off the island? And who’s side does that put Hawking on – Jacob or non-Jacob? Could she be deceived like so many have been?

    Commenting on Christie in 432 – I do think that the importance of burying the bodies has to do with non/Jacob “using” them. Everyone (darhma, keamy, others) but the losties know this rule – okay, Rousseau didn’t know either. That could explain what happened to the folks that got sucked under the temple…and hmm who have we seen live there? Smokey!

    So can the loophole be the shoes, or do you think it’s something else?[/quote]

    _______

    Hmmm… I think you’re onto something! And it’s probably the same with newborns… that’s why the Others tried to steal Aaron and “vaccinate” him, and that’s why Widmore (via Jacob) ordered Alex killed… perhaps that’s what the “virus” is. I always thought it was odd that Locke was so enamoured with the island the way Rousseau’s colleagues were… we never saw what happened with Locke when the smoke monster originally appeared to him. For all we know, the smoke monster could have given Locke the same treatment as he did Rousseau’s people… Rousseau knew there was something wrong with them. Locke just wasn’t as forceful about it…

    And the Others were all about those “vaccines” I bet it has something to do with protection against the smoke monster’s (and Esau’s) powers (virus)… hmmmmmmm….

    It’s a good thing the Losties took up the habit of burying the dead. Otherwise, there would be a lot more living dead walking around…

  446. wingman says:

    Damn, so in S1 “White Rabbit”, Esua//beach dood/McFlipFlops/smokey tries to make Jack fall off a cliff and kill himself? So he’s Kate’s horse and the Hurley bird all rolled into one? So every apparition in the history of the show can now be blanketed I guess…Damn….

  447. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="336308"]Does anyone else have a take on the function of the cabin. Just the way Ilana says “He isn’t there, hasn’t been in a long time. Someone else has been using it. Burn it.” It made think that the cabin was more then a drafty place to live. burning it down dismantled its functionality thus depriving whomever was using it the abilities that the cabin afforded.

    Any thoughts?[/quote]
    **************
    I like the idea that it HAD to be burned. It makes me think that the other person was “pretending” to be Jacob…others just didn’t know it…

  448. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="336334"]Damn, so in S1 “White Rabbit”, Esua//beach dood/McFlipFlops/smokey tries to make Jack fall off a cliff and kill himself? So he’s Kate’s horse and the Hurley bird all rolled into one? So every apparition in the history of the show can now be blanketed I guess…Damn….[/quote]
    *******************
    sorry wingman…can’t stand it anymore…was hoping you would catch the correct spelling in some of the other posts…”dood” is spelled dude…not trying to be rude…just can’t keep reading it that way;)
    -miss

  449. Miss lost says:

    I have a couple of questions…
    1. Could it be that once Horace died beach guy or even Jacob for that matter “used” his body and that they really are the person who built the cabin/
    2. Exactly how are they using the bodies. Beach guy appears to look like Locke but we know that the real Locke is indeed dead inside that crate. So is it that they can morph to look like a dead person?
    Unsure on this…but I do like the idea that this is why one should be buried or put to sea (off the island)…

  450. wingman says:

    LMAO, all the concerns I’ve brought up and you choose to respond back to me about the word “dood”?? I know it’s spelled wrong, “dood” is suppose to be saying “dude”, but it’s spelled with “doo” as in doo-doo (I think you know what that is) to denote you think that person or the idea of that person is $hitty…I stole the term from some random net dude, and I see a couple people have even stolen it from me, but if it bothers you more than the substance of posts, I’ll gladly revert back…

  451. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="336348"]LMAO, all the concerns I’ve brought up and you choose to respond back to me about the word “dood”?? I know it’s spelled wrong, “dood” is suppose to be saying “dude”, but it’s spelled with “doo” as in doo-doo (I think you know what that is) to denote you think that person or the idea of that person is $hitty…I stole the term from some random net dude, and I see a couple people have even stolen it from me, but if it bothers you more than the substance of posts, I’ll gladly revert back…[/quote]
    *****************
    just so you know…I do read the posts and there are many thought provoking thoughts, questions and ideas…my head is really still spinning and i have soooo many questions that I haven’t tried to respond too much yet…trying to piece it together. I will start to formalize why I think Jacob is good and those on his side are good and just as quickly I realize he could be the bad guy in all this and the other beach guy could be the good guy…
    I also am trying to decide if I think Juliette died or if they flashed (hoping that they flashed) and that is who Jacob meant was coming…so sorry if that is what i nit picked at…it was bothersome…didn’t know it was intentional…keep up the thoughts and questions…it is why we are on here…

  452. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336324"]I believe that the actor you see there is a crewmember of LOST. I don’t think they had casting yet for Jacob and had to use somebody. D&C mentioned this but who knows if they were telling the truth.[/quote]

    The guy in the chair is the Prop Master for the show as D&C stated. He is featured quite prominently in one of the DVD extras (as Prop Master) as well as in several video podcasts. This time, at least, they were telling the truth.

    : ) P

  453. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="336301"]A couple of thoughts from a long-time reader, first-time poster:

    1) It seems the fire that burned down the cabin may come into play in S6. Lapidus’ comment…something like, “I’m not a tree-hugger, but isn’t that a good way to set the whole jungle on fire?”…doesn’t seem to be just thrown in… Also, interesting parallel between the cabin in flames and Jacob in the fire.

    2) Interesting to me that many have assumed that Juliette did, indeed, set off the bomb. True, the screen turns white after her last hit…but, could it simply be the ‘culmination’ of tapping the energy, rather than the bomb going off? The noise and strength of the energy seemed to get stronger and stronger…. Maybe the white light is when the energy reaches its max. Not sure I could guess how that would affect the story, but just a thought.

    A lot of great posts and theories out there. Thanks for the discussion.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    I like the idead that bomb didn’t go off. I had thought that the fail safe key Des turned may have detonated a bomb. Maybe you are right and Juliette didn’t set off the bomb and it gets used in the Swan as the fail safe. We still haven’t been told WHAT the key actually did.

  454. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336350"][quote comment="336324"]I believe that the actor you see there is a crewmember of LOST. I don’t think they had casting yet for Jacob and had to use somebody. D&C mentioned this but who knows if they were telling the truth.[/quote]

    The guy in the chair is the Prop Master for the show as D&C stated. He is featured quite prominently in one of the DVD extras (as Prop Master) as well as in several video podcasts. This time, at least, they were telling the truth.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ____________

    Yes exactly what I was saying. Maybe “Prop Master” as in using dead bodies as PROPS though! oooOOoooOOoooo LOL I think they are much like Ben in how they use words in that they aren’t necessarily lying or telling the truth…but very ambiguous :)

  455. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336347"]I have a couple of questions…
    1. Could it be that once Horace died beach guy or even Jacob for that matter “used” his body and that they really are the person who built the cabin/
    2. Exactly how are they using the bodies. Beach guy appears to look like Locke but we know that the real Locke is indeed dead inside that crate. So is it that they can morph to look like a dead person?
    Unsure on this…but I do like the idea that this is why one should be buried or put to sea (off the island)…[/quote]
    ____________

    OOOO i like #1 because I commented on Horace building the cabin…and it didn’t make sense in my head and maybe the scene we saw wasn’t actually what we was happening….it goes along with the dead bodies that need to be buried and whatnot….dig it!

  456. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336326"][quote comment="336314"]Something occurred to me this morning – I’ve read all the posts and don’t recall seeing anything about this yet. The loophole – Could it be all about the shoes?

    If non-jacob/non-locke was trapped and using the cabin, and if the ash was keeping him in, and if someone broke the ash circle on purpose, and he then began using Christian Shepherd’s body to manipulate the losties, could his loophole involve his spirit passing from Christian’s body to John’s have something to do with Jack putting his father’s shoes on John while off the island? And who’s side does that put Hawking on – Jacob or non-Jacob? Could she be deceived like so many have been?

    Commenting on Christie in 432 – I do think that the importance of burying the bodies has to do with non/Jacob “using” them. Everyone (darhma, keamy, others) but the losties know this rule – okay, Rousseau didn’t know either. That could explain what happened to the folks that got sucked under the temple…and hmm who have we seen live there? Smokey!

    So can the loophole be the shoes, or do you think it’s something else?[/quote]

    _______

    Hmmm… I think you’re onto something! And it’s probably the same with newborns… that’s why the Others tried to steal Aaron and “vaccinate” him, and that’s why Widmore (via Jacob) ordered Alex killed… perhaps that’s what the “virus” is. I always thought it was odd that Locke was so enamoured with the island the way Rousseau’s colleagues were… we never saw what happened with Locke when the smoke monster originally appeared to him. For all we know, the smoke monster could have given Locke the same treatment as he did Rousseau’s people… Rousseau knew there was something wrong with them. Locke just wasn’t as forceful about it…

    And the Others were all about those “vaccines” I bet it has something to do with protection against the smoke monster’s (and Esau’s) powers (virus)… hmmmmmmm….

    It’s a good thing the Losties took up the habit of burying the dead. Otherwise, there would be a lot more living dead walking around…[/quote]

    ____________________

    Very much like this whole idea too!!!!

  457. Hammer says:

    Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?

  458. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336377"]Yes exactly what I was saying. Maybe “Prop Master” as in using dead bodies as PROPS though! oooOOoooOOoooo LOL I think they are much like Ben in how they use words in that they aren’t necessarily lying or telling the truth…but very ambiguous
    :)[/quote]

    Well it is possible that D&C used the guy as the ultimate inside JOKE, but he really IS the prop master for the show.

    : ) P

  459. julie says:

    when we first meet Julliette, she is havibg a book meeting in her house… at this meeting is a few older people that we never see again, could it be that these people are julliette, jack, miles (or jin, there is an oriental man there)

  460. Ament20 says:

    [quote comment="336372"][quote comment="336301"]A couple of thoughts from a long-time reader, first-time poster:

    1) It seems the fire that burned down the cabin may come into play in S6. Lapidus’ comment…something like, “I’m not a tree-hugger, but isn’t that a good way to set the whole jungle on fire?”…doesn’t seem to be just thrown in… Also, interesting parallel between the cabin in flames and Jacob in the fire.

    2) Interesting to me that many have assumed that Juliette did, indeed, set off the bomb. True, the screen turns white after her last hit…but, could it simply be the ‘culmination’ of tapping the energy, rather than the bomb going off? The noise and strength of the energy seemed to get stronger and stronger…. Maybe the white light is when the energy reaches its max. Not sure I could guess how that would affect the story, but just a thought.

    A lot of great posts and theories out there. Thanks for the discussion.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    I like the idead that bomb didn’t go off. I had thought that the fail safe key Des turned may have detonated a bomb. Maybe you are right and Juliette didn’t set off the bomb and it gets used in the Swan as the fail safe. We still haven’t been told WHAT the key actually did.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I agree with this idea, if in fact the bomb didn’t go off then the fade to white would have to be similar to the Desmond flash where in body they travel but mentally are in current time.

    But why Desmond woke up naked in the jungle is beyond me.

  461. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="336380"]Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?[/quote]
    **************
    Right! Maybe this is why Amy was sooooo concerned about burrying the dead. Maybe they didn’t burry an Other once only to see that person wondering around again?

  462. Steve says:

    [quote comment="336388"][quote comment="336372"][quote comment="336301"]A couple of thoughts from a long-time reader, first-time poster:

    1) It seems the fire that burned down the cabin may come into play in S6. Lapidus’ comment…something like, “I’m not a tree-hugger, but isn’t that a good way to set the whole jungle on fire?”…doesn’t seem to be just thrown in… Also, interesting parallel between the cabin in flames and Jacob in the fire.

    2) Interesting to me that many have assumed that Juliette did, indeed, set off the bomb. True, the screen turns white after her last hit…but, could it simply be the ‘culmination’ of tapping the energy, rather than the bomb going off? The noise and strength of the energy seemed to get stronger and stronger…. Maybe the white light is when the energy reaches its max. Not sure I could guess how that would affect the story, but just a thought.

    A lot of great posts and theories out there. Thanks for the discussion.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++=
    I like the idead that bomb didn’t go off. I had thought that the fail safe key Des turned may have detonated a bomb. Maybe you are right and Juliette didn’t set off the bomb and it gets used in the Swan as the fail safe. We still haven’t been told WHAT the key actually did.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I agree with this idea, if in fact the bomb didn’t go off then the fade to white would have to be similar to the Desmond flash where in body they travel but mentally are in current time.

    But why Desmond woke up naked in the jungle is beyond me.[/quote]
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    I am in the camp that the bomb went off and did exactly what the bomb was supposed to do, and did as the fail safe devise that Desmond set off. Only now Juliet manages to do it and thus changes the nature of the Swan station and the course of the future. Desmond no longer needs to press the button, and The past has changed. WHH no longer is cannon.

  463. Steve says:

    P.s. If this bobm going off and setting the magnetic anomaly right thing is correct, I can’t wait to see Juliet naked in the jungle!!!

  464. Mal says:

    [quote comment="336391"][quote comment="336380"]Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?[/quote]
    **************
    Right! Maybe this is why Amy was sooooo concerned about burrying the dead. Maybe they didn’t burry an Other once only to see that person wondering around again?[/quote]

    _________________

    Amy was concerned with burying the dead because that was part of the truce that the Dharma folks had with the Others… I assumed that meant that all dead had to be buried. I think we only saw the others send one of their own out to sea… and they torched her body in addition.

    I could be wrong about that, of course… but I assumed that the Others have a policy that they must bury all dead.. or, I guess in some cases, the bodies must be burned.

    Interesting that Jacob was thrown in the fire… I wonder if there is a connection

  465. steve says:

    [quote comment="336493"][quote comment="336391"][quote comment="336380"]Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?[/quote]
    **************
    Right! Maybe this is why Amy was sooooo concerned about burrying the dead. Maybe they didn’t burry an Other once only to see that person wondering around again?[/quote]

    _________________

    Amy was concerned with burying the dead because that was part of the truce that the Dharma folks had with the Others… I assumed that meant that all dead had to be buried. I think we only saw the others send one of their own out to sea… and they torched her body in addition.

    I could be wrong about that, of course… but I assumed that the Others have a policy that they must bury all dead.. or, I guess in some cases, the bodies must be burned.

    Interesting that Jacob was thrown in the fire… I wonder if there is a connection[/quote]

    **************************

    No one buried Goodwin, and technically no one in the Dharma death pit was buried. I was under the impression that Amy wanted the bodies buried to hide them from the Others so they would not be blamed for violating the truce.

  466. GuttahMan says:

    [quote comment="336534"][quote comment="336493"][quote comment="336391"][quote comment="336380"]Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?[/quote]
    **************
    Right! Maybe this is why Amy was sooooo concerned about burrying the dead. Maybe they didn’t burry an Other once only to see that person wondering around again?[/quote]

    _________________

    Amy was concerned with burying the dead because that was part of the truce that the Dharma folks had with the Others… I assumed that meant that all dead had to be buried. I think we only saw the others send one of their own out to sea… and they torched her body in addition.

    I could be wrong about that, of course… but I assumed that the Others have a policy that they must bury all dead.. or, I guess in some cases, the bodies must be burned.

    Interesting that Jacob was thrown in the fire… I wonder if there is a connection[/quote]

    **************************

    No one buried Goodwin, and technically no one in the Dharma death pit was buried. I was under the impression that Amy wanted the bodies buried to hide them from the Others so they would not be blamed for violating the truce.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I was thinking the same thing…Amy was just trying to clean up the mess…

    On an unrelated note….I was thinking about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the finale, and started to wonder wether or not Juliet has alterior motives that made her change her mind about setting off the bomb…she said to Sawyer “if i never meet you, i cant lose you” or something along those lines….but at the same time, if everything gets reset, she has another chance to be with Goodwin! Could her change of mind come from her a deeper love for Goodwin than Sawyer?? Something tells me she is going to play a somewhat major role next season.

  467. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336545"][quote comment="336534"][quote comment="336493"][quote comment="336391"][quote comment="336380"]Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?[/quote]
    **************
    Right! Maybe this is why Amy was sooooo concerned about burrying the dead. Maybe they didn’t burry an Other once only to see that person wondering around again?[/quote]

    _________________

    Amy was concerned with burying the dead because that was part of the truce that the Dharma folks had with the Others… I assumed that meant that all dead had to be buried. I think we only saw the others send one of their own out to sea… and they torched her body in addition.

    I could be wrong about that, of course… but I assumed that the Others have a policy that they must bury all dead.. or, I guess in some cases, the bodies must be burned.

    Interesting that Jacob was thrown in the fire… I wonder if there is a connection[/quote]

    **************************

    No one buried Goodwin, and technically no one in the Dharma death pit was buried. I was under the impression that Amy wanted the bodies buried to hide them from the Others so they would not be blamed for violating the truce.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I was thinking the same thing…Amy was just trying to clean up the mess…

    On an unrelated note….I was thinking about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the finale, and started to wonder wether or not Juliet has alterior motives that made her change her mind about setting off the bomb…she said to Sawyer “if i never meet you, i cant lose you” or something along those lines….but at the same time, if everything gets reset, she has another chance to be with Goodwin! Could her change of mind come from her a deeper love for Goodwin than Sawyer?? Something tells me she is going to play a somewhat major role next season.[/quote]

    ________________________

    OooOOO good thought about Juliette may wanting to go back to the Goodwin…i think it’s sort of a combination of both.

    Also, why do you think that they made a trade for the dead body (Paul-Amy’s hubby/bf the other’s shot) ? They needed the body for something??!!

  468. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336545"]On an unrelated note….I was thinking about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the finale, and started to wonder wether or not Juliet has alterior motives that made her change her mind about setting off the bomb…she said to Sawyer “if i never meet you, i cant lose you” or something along those lines….but at the same time, if everything gets reset, she has another chance to be with Goodwin! Could her change of mind come from her a deeper love for Goodwin than Sawyer?? Something tells me she is going to play a somewhat major role next season.[/quote]

    Except that if they reset the future, they are not going to take what they now know WITH them, so it isn’t as if she can do things differently with Goodwin.

    : ) P

  469. GuttahMan says:

    [quote comment="336548"][quote comment="336545"]On an unrelated note….I was thinking about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the finale, and started to wonder wether or not Juliet has alterior motives that made her change her mind about setting off the bomb…she said to Sawyer “if i never meet you, i cant lose you” or something along those lines….but at the same time, if everything gets reset, she has another chance to be with Goodwin! Could her change of mind come from her a deeper love for Goodwin than Sawyer?? Something tells me she is going to play a somewhat major role next season.[/quote]

    Except that if they reset the future, they are not going to take what they now know WITH them, so it isn’t as if she can do things differently with Goodwin.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Very true…BUT…if the Losties never arrive on the island, Ana Lucia never gets the chance to kill Goodwin!

  470. Mal says:

    [quote comment="336557"][quote comment="336548"][quote comment="336545"]On an unrelated note….I was thinking about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the finale, and started to wonder wether or not Juliet has alterior motives that made her change her mind about setting off the bomb…she said to Sawyer “if i never meet you, i cant lose you” or something along those lines….but at the same time, if everything gets reset, she has another chance to be with Goodwin! Could her change of mind come from her a deeper love for Goodwin than Sawyer?? Something tells me she is going to play a somewhat major role next season.[/quote]

    Except that if they reset the future, they are not going to take what they now know WITH them, so it isn’t as if she can do things differently with Goodwin.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Very true…BUT…if the Losties never arrive on the island, Ana Lucia never gets the chance to kill Goodwin![/quote]

    _________
    Yes, but, if the button pushing doesn’t happen, and the plane doesn’t land, there is no guarantee that things will work out the same for the Others. If there is no incident, it will change the course for the Dharma folks, and since the fate of the Dharma folks and the Others are intertwined, things for the Others will look much different. We don’t know that Goodwin will even be there. We don’t know that he and his wife will be on bad terms… maybe the Incident and the resulting Dharma/Others conflict caused a rift between Goodwin and wife.

    Also, Juliet came to the island so that she could treat the baby problem. Who says that there will be a baby problem if there is no incident?

    As the saying goes, a flap of a butterfly wing can cause a tsunami half a world away. I don’t buy that if the incident never happens that everything looks exactly the same up until 2004, the only difference being the Swan Station has a different purpose. Don’t buy it!

  471. Mal says:

    In addition to that, I don’t buy the theory that if the incident never happens, the plane lands in Los Angeles. There are about 30 years in between there to drastically change things, so much so that flight 815 might not even exist!! If it does, it won’t have the same passengers.

    And let’s keep in mind that the people who get on flight 815 get on the flight BECAUSE of the incident and because of things that happen on the island. Hurley is on that plane because he uses the numbers broadcast from the island as lottery numbers… if there is no incident, those numbers aren’t broadcast from the island. So Hurley wouldn’t have won the lottery and he wouldn’t have been in Australia talking to the wife of the friend of the man he got the numbers from.

    That’s just one example. I know there are more people who wouldn’t have gotten on that plane if it hadn’t been for the island, the incident, and people involved… Claire likely wouldn’t be on the plane because she wouldn’t have been coaxed into it by the fortune teller.

    Just saying, if the incident is indeed avoided, then some of the cast members get erased from the roster.

    I think the incident did happen… if we are able to believe that Jack et all were thrown from the 2007 plane to land in 1977 Dharmaville, then it’s just as believable that drilling into the magnetic force caused some sort of time warp that our friends got caught in. WHH.

  472. ScottIsLostWithoutLost says:

    An imaginary press release from ABC …

    Hey Lost fans! We know how fanatical you all are, and how badly you now want to make sense of the first 5 seasons, especially during this 8 month drought!

    At almost no cost to us, we’ve created 5 DVDs, each one $19.95, 90 minutes long, created from excerpts from each season, intended to contain the most vital “big picture” elements. We skipped the Paulo episode altogether!

    These DVDs are for people who’ve already seen the show only; they will not suffice for a new viewer.

    Do you want the clearest possible big picture so far, full of “oh I get it now” and “oh so THAT’s where that was going” and “man, I never noticed that foreshadowing” moments, buy all 5 today! Watch with friends! Survive the next 8 months of waiting!

    ————–

    If that was a real press release I’d be tripping all over myself to find a credit card.

  473. maybe says:

    I’m in the camp that says Jack created the incident. The whole notion of “timing” the bomb with the incident (as pere Faraday’s notes) is very weak. Locke timed his coming through the forest for Albert to treat, perfectly. Faraday, Jack and eventually Julliet were all quite liberal with timing the bomb going off with the magnetic pocket being already breached!

    If it didn’t really matter when you detonated the bomb, then who cares if it was just before, during or 5 minutes after the breach happened i.e. it was not an “incident” unless it happened at a single of point of time, just like the bomb going off.

    Jack set off the incident which also explains Alpert’s statement to Sun about “watching them all die” … Elloise and him must have scrambled back towards the Swan site after she came through and would have seen the explosion that will kill them all.

  474. steve says:

    [quote comment="336568"]I’m in the camp that says Jack created the incident. The whole notion of “timing” the bomb with the incident (as pere Faraday’s notes) is very weak. Locke timed his coming through the forest for Albert to treat, perfectly. Faraday, Jack and eventually Julliet were all quite liberal with timing the bomb going off with the magnetic pocket being already breached!

    If it didn’t really matter when you detonated the bomb, then who cares if it was just before, during or 5 minutes after the breach happened i.e. it was not an “incident” unless it happened at a single of point of time, just like the bomb going off.

    Jack set off the incident which also explains Alpert’s statement to Sun about “watching them all die” … Elloise and him must have scrambled back towards the Swan site after she came through and would have seen the explosion that will kill them all.[/quote]

    ***************************************

    If RA went through the troubble of clobbering a pregnant woman to keep their leader safe, (Could be referring to the unborn child), Why would he head towards the device and not to the only safe place he has ever alluded to… The temple?

  475. steve says:

    [quote comment="336547"][quote comment="336545"][quote comment="336534"][quote comment="336493"][quote comment="336391"][quote comment="336380"]Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?[/quote]
    **************
    Right! Maybe this is why Amy was sooooo concerned about burrying the dead. Maybe they didn’t burry an Other once only to see that person wondering around again?[/quote]

    _________________

    Amy was concerned with burying the dead because that was part of the truce that the Dharma folks had with the Others… I assumed that meant that all dead had to be buried. I think we only saw the others send one of their own out to sea… and they torched her body in addition.

    I could be wrong about that, of course… but I assumed that the Others have a policy that they must bury all dead.. or, I guess in some cases, the bodies must be burned.

    Interesting that Jacob was thrown in the fire… I wonder if there is a connection[/quote]

    **************************

    No one buried Goodwin, and technically no one in the Dharma death pit was buried. I was under the impression that Amy wanted the bodies buried to hide them from the Others so they would not be blamed for violating the truce.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I was thinking the same thing…Amy was just trying to clean up the mess…

    On an unrelated note….I was thinking about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the finale, and started to wonder wether or not Juliet has alterior motives that made her change her mind about setting off the bomb…she said to Sawyer “if i never meet you, i cant lose you” or something along those lines….but at the same time, if everything gets reset, she has another chance to be with Goodwin! Could her change of mind come from her a deeper love for Goodwin than Sawyer?? Something tells me she is going to play a somewhat major role next season.[/quote]

    ________________________

    OooOOO good thought about Juliette may wanting to go back to the Goodwin…i think it’s sort of a combination of both.

    Also, why do you think that they made a trade for the dead body (Paul-Amy’s hubby/bf the other’s shot) ? They needed the body for something??!![/quote]
    ***************************************

    I was thinking that Richard had to tell his people something about the two dead comrades. Maybe he and Horace decided it would be in the best interest of the truce to concoct a story where both sides lost something. This way Richard could bring back Paul’s body and tell his people that they must hide the body so that they cannot be blamed for violating the truce. He could pretend that the Dharma folks did not yet know of the incident, and there would be no outrage for revenge among the Others. In the end the peace is kept.

  476. Mal says:

    [quote comment="336569"][quote comment="336568"]quote]

    ***************************************

    If RA went through the troubble of clobbering a pregnant woman to keep their leader safe, (Could be referring to the unborn child), Why would he head towards the device and not to the only safe place he has ever alluded to… The temple?[/quote]

    _________

    This has been mentioned before, but when Sun pointed out the picture of the Dharmas, she didn’t specify about which ones were her friends… Richard could have been referring to the purge when he said that he watched them all die.

  477. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="336568"]I’m in the camp that says Jack created the incident. The whole notion of “timing” the bomb with the incident (as pere Faraday’s notes) is very weak. Locke timed his coming through the forest for Albert to treat, perfectly. Faraday, Jack and eventually Julliet were all quite liberal with timing the bomb going off with the magnetic pocket being already breached!

    If it didn’t really matter when you detonated the bomb, then who cares if it was just before, during or 5 minutes after the breach happened i.e. it was not an “incident” unless it happened at a single of point of time, just like the bomb going off.

    Jack set off the incident which also explains Alpert’s statement to Sun about “watching them all die” … Elloise and him must have scrambled back towards the Swan site after she came through and would have seen the explosion that will kill them all.[/quote]

    I really thought it was a stupid idea to throw the bomb in the hole, but I do think that it was supposed to happen… heres a thought… WHH- the incident (which is actually caused by the drill, and the bomb actually is there to take the edge off I think) has happened, but the way that it happens is different. Remember Daniel said that Jack did not belong there, so maybe he wasn’t supposed to drop the bomb…he sort of took that role on himself. maybe it should have been someone else, and happened five minutes earlier…

    The way I see it, is that WHH is true, but it doesn’t always happen the exact same way, and it is those slight differences here, that allow for other slight differences to happen there (there I guess being the events that go down on the 2007 half of the show)

    I think some might go to 2007 and some may stay. I think Hurley stays in the seventies- Jack and Kate too. They die later in the jungle amongst the others. Jack and Kate are Adam and Eve. They were the ones in the picture, right?

  478. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336571"][quote comment="336569"][quote comment="336568"]quote]

    ***************************************

    If RA went through the troubble of clobbering a pregnant woman to keep their leader safe, (Could be referring to the unborn child), Why would he head towards the device and not to the only safe place he has ever alluded to… The temple?[/quote]

    _________

    This has been mentioned before, but when Sun pointed out the picture of the Dharmas, she didn’t specify about which ones were her friends… Richard could have been referring to the purge when he said that he watched them all die.[/quote]

    ___________________

    I thought she said…”Have you seen my friends Jack, Kate, Hurley…my husband was with them” And then Richard goes “I remember meeting specifically (or very clearly) because I watched them all die” or something to that affect…I thought I remember her pointing them out.

  479. maybe says:

    [quote comment="336569"][quote comment="336568"]I’m in the camp that says Jack created the incident. The whole notion of “timing” the bomb with the incident (as pere Faraday’s notes) is very weak. Locke timed his coming through the forest for Albert to treat, perfectly. Faraday, Jack and eventually Julliet were all quite liberal with timing the bomb going off with the magnetic pocket being already breached!

    If it didn’t really matter when you detonated the bomb, then who cares if it was just before, during or 5 minutes after the breach happened i.e. it was not an “incident” unless it happened at a single of point of time, just like the bomb going off.

    Jack set off the incident which also explains Alpert’s statement to Sun about “watching them all die” … Elloise and him must have scrambled back towards the Swan site after she came through and would have seen the explosion that will kill them all.[/quote]

    ***************************************

    If RA went through the troubble of clobbering a pregnant woman to keep their leader safe, (Could be referring to the unborn child), Why would he head towards the device and not to the only safe place he has ever alluded to… The temple?[/quote]
    Because Elloise (his leader) would have been livid with him for what he’s done and naturally she wanted to see that her son’s assertions come through. Also remember that regardless of what happens at the Swan site, Faraday’s notebook survives the incident. Neither the notebook, nor Saeed whould have been in or near the van, they would still be up on the ridge overlooking the site.

  480. Steve says:

    [quote comment="336574"][quote comment="336569"][quote comment="336568"]I’m in the camp that says Jack created the incident. The whole notion of “timing” the bomb with the incident (as pere Faraday’s notes) is very weak. Locke timed his coming through the forest for Albert to treat, perfectly. Faraday, Jack and eventually Julliet were all quite liberal with timing the bomb going off with the magnetic pocket being already breached!

    If it didn’t really matter when you detonated the bomb, then who cares if it was just before, during or 5 minutes after the breach happened i.e. it was not an “incident” unless it happened at a single of point of time, just like the bomb going off.

    Jack set off the incident which also explains Alpert’s statement to Sun about “watching them all die” … Elloise and him must have scrambled back towards the Swan site after she came through and would have seen the explosion that will kill them all.[/quote]

    ***************************************

    If RA went through the troubble of clobbering a pregnant woman to keep their leader safe, (Could be referring to the unborn child), Why would he head towards the device and not to the only safe place he has ever alluded to… The temple?[/quote]
    Because Elloise (his leader) would have been livid with him for what he’s done and naturally she wanted to see that her son’s assertions come through. Also remember that regardless of what happens at the Swan site, Faraday’s notebook survives the incident. Neither the notebook, nor Saeed whould have been in or near the van, they would still be up on the ridge overlooking the site.[/quote]
    #######################################

    You are assuming that WHH. We do not know that this is the case We don’t know what happened to anyone, the journal, the island, RA and Eloise & Child… Only if WHH is true

  481. TRay says:

    I read through most of the posts regarding “The Incident” and I don’t believe I have seen this mentioned. It may be way off but was wondering what people thought.

    If FLocke couldn’t kill Jacob and instituted Ben to do so that makes sense. However, Ben stabs Jacob and he doesn’t appear to be dead when FLocke kicks him into the fire. Thus, Ben did not technically kill him and thus leaves the opening for Jacob to return.

    Thoughts??

  482. wingman says:

    So Jacob recruits Hurley 48 hrs before the plane crashes where about 48-72 hrs later he’s sitting like a lung cancer patient in a wooden chair looking sickly telling Ben he has a choice…I’m not gonna lie, this is the omnipresence that concerns me…When we dive into the whole living GOD’s angle you basically have all the island mysteries on deck for easily solving…But I could be wrong, Jacob could be Chris Angel!

    I also think Esua McFlipFlops ability to retain Locke’s memories has some connection or similarity with Miles ability to understand the prior knowledge of the dead…How else could he have known what Locke had done during the time flashes (I hope it’s not God power)…

    And speaking of Miles, when will it even be revealed how he made the picture frames in the black lady’s house change after he talked to her dead son…After this whole omnipotent island God final season I begrudgingly foresee that also potentially being thrown in the Jacob magic category…

    Someone make me feel better…

  483. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336581"]So Jacob recruits Hurley 48 hrs before the plane crashes where about 48-72 hrs later he’s sitting like a lung cancer patient in a wooden chair looking sickly telling Ben he has a choice…I’m not gonna lie, this is the omnipresence that concerns me…When we dive into the whole living GOD’s angle you basically have all the island mysteries on deck for easily solving…But I could be wrong, Jacob could be Chris Angel!

    I also think Esua McFlipFlops ability to retain Locke’s memories has some connection or similarity with Miles ability to understand the prior knowledge of the dead…How else could he have known what Locke had done during the time flashes (I hope it’s not God power)…

    And speaking of Miles, when will it even be revealed how he made the picture frames in the black lady’s house change after he talked to her dead son…After this whole omnipotent island God final season I begrudgingly foresee that also potentially being thrown in the Jacob magic category…

    Someone make me feel better…[/quote]
    ____________

    Would agreeing help? hahaha

    nice chris angel reference…but i hate chris angel so if Jacob were like him, it’d still suck….hahaha

    I, too, wonder how and why he has Locke’s conscience while still being “Esau”…it’ll be interesting how and when “Esau” appears to be using the dead’s bodies.

    Also, am I the only one that doesn’t like the fact the this “esau” person could be in 3 places at one time, or at least portraying 3 different people at the same time? (christian and possibly claire when they are in the cabin)….I actually also don’t like the possibility of him being the smoke monster….

    …i guess this plays along with Jacob/Esau being the answer to everything unanswered

  484. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336581"]So Jacob recruits Hurley 48 hrs before the plane crashes where about 48-72 hrs later he’s sitting like a lung cancer patient in a wooden chair looking sickly telling Ben he has a choice…[/quote]

    I don’t remember Jacob looking sickly, but I suppose that is a matter of opinion.

    However, I disagree with your timeline to a degree. I think Hurley was still in jail until the morning of the flight.

    Also, it sounds as if you are suggesting that everything that we saw happen once the A316’ers landed in 1977 happened in one day.

    As I can best recall, we see the A316’ers arrive and are assimilated into the DI; the next morning, we see them eating breakfast (waffles and ham?) and that NIGHT, Sayid shoots Ben; the next day, Kate and Sawyer take Ben to Alpert and that NIGHT, Faraday arrives; the next day all hell breaks loose.

    In 2007, we see the A316’ers arrive and that NIGHT Sun and Lapidus go to the big island; the next day, FLocke and Ben go to the big island, Lapidus takes off and that NIGHT Ben tries to summon Smokey by the barracks; the next day, Sun, Flocke and Ben go to Smokey’s lair under the wall around the temple and that NIGHT Flocke, the orator, tells the assorted red-shirted Others that they are going to see Jacob; the next day they play follow the leader and all hell breaks loose.

    In either scenario, it is the FOURTH day after A316 arrives that we see Jacob.

    : ) P

  485. steve says:

    [quote comment="336579"]I read through most of the posts regarding “The Incident” and I don’t believe I have seen this mentioned. It may be way off but was wondering what people thought.

    If FLocke couldn’t kill Jacob and instituted Ben to do so that makes sense. However, Ben stabs Jacob and he doesn’t appear to be dead when FLocke kicks him into the fire. Thus, Ben did not technically kill him and thus leaves the opening for Jacob to return.

    Thoughts??[/quote]

    I wonder if man #2 can’t kill Jacob because he is weak and not because of some rule he cannot break. he finally grabs some cahonies and kicks the man when he’s down. a true coward. not much better than the real locke who was a pathetic basket case.

  486. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336584"]I think Hurley was still in jail until the morning of the flight.
    [/quote]

    Correcting myself here. I just watched the scene in the cab and Jacob tells Hurley A316 is in “twenty-four hours.”

    Also, there was some question about whether or not Jacob touched Hurley… he did, on the arm in the cab.

    : ) P

  487. WTF says:

    [quote comment="336561"]In addition to that, I don’t buy the theory that if the incident never happens, the plane lands in Los Angeles….

    I think the incident did happen… if we are able to believe that Jack et all were thrown from the 2007 plane to land in 1977 Dharmaville, then it’s just as believable that drilling into the magnetic force caused some sort of time warp that our friends got caught in. WHH.[/quote]
    ******************************************
    “our friends” I love it!!!
    I am so caught up in this TV show that I sometimes think of these characters as people IN MY LIFE that I actually have something vested in! Sometimes my family looks at me like I am crazy when I am talking about a character on the show as if they are someone I know and I care so passionately about their well being. How often does a TV show do that!

  488. gmta leah says:

    [quote comment="336123"]To me it is a cop-out. To watch this show for 5 years only to find out it’s some cosmic game between 2 people makes me feel like I wasted a little of my life. Like wingman said you can shape and shift almost any question back to “Jacob did it” now. We all knew they wouldn’t have time to explain every mystery in the final season. With the Jacob plot device you’ve killed like 70% of the questions easily. Honestly though it’s just not that impressive of a plot revelation IMO. God-like people who can control time and stuff seems very unimaginative to me. I much rather the Time Travel aspect of the show.[/quote]
    //////////////////////////////////////[quote comment="336127"]I’m not gonna go as far as calling it a total cop-out, but I am worried….But even if D&C decide to turn all of this on it’s head, to begin an 8 month break with the premise of this show being 2 guys playing a game of fate, that’s tuff for some of us to swallow…Ya see I think that the camp that was heavy into the biblical aspect of the show probably loved this…The whole Ben or Locke equaling Job, Kane and Abel, etc.,; these guys probably think the show is going in the right direction…For the camp that was more about the pragmatic parts of the show, the logic behind Time travel phenomenon, and how Time Travel begets Time Travel were probably really thrown off by the developments…I was more in the camp of thinking the Time Travel element of the show is what created “Jacob” and the set of events that started our story…I was equally shocked and disappointed when my greatest fear hit me upside the head no less than 2 mins into the show when it was reveled Jacob was just some dood eating fish, controlling stuff like bringing the Black Rock to the island from a beach rock…So for those following a certain thread of revelations in the show, they were probably happy about this, but the other side of the coin is confused and hurt by the fact that much of what they invested in certain characters and plot-points may seem meaningless now…I honestly didn’t want Jacob to just be some dood we never saw before, and he was that and a bag of Dharma-chips…[/quote]
    //////////////////////////////////Yes you are right. And to introduce two new characters on the seasons finale is …”moving the goal posts”! It makes all the discussing, hypothesizing, debating, that has gone with this show since the 1/1 of jacks eye pointless. After all isn’t the whole point of the blogs to throw ideas in? see what bounces back?. Even try to get something right that you, ve seen coming? No-one could have seen two guys on a beech, playing mind games. On the series finale! Even though my initial reaction was b*******, the finale did have me on the edge of my seat, it was exiting. But it did nothing to answer any questions, which were still hanging. On the plus side …TAWARET
    Ha! You know who you are, it seems some tools are sharper than others eh?
    Gmtaleah signing off. Until next we meet.

  489. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="336587"][quote comment="336584"]I think Hurley was still in jail until the morning of the flight.
    [/quote]

    Correcting myself here. I just watched the scene in the cab and Jacob tells Hurley A316 is in “twenty-four hours.”

    Also, there was some question about whether or not Jacob touched Hurley… he did, on the arm in the cab.

    : ) P[/quote]
    **********
    Still trying to figure out who is on what side for this upcoming war. Llana is connected to Jacob and is responsible for getting Sayid on the plane. Jacob himself is responsible for getting Hurley on the plane. Ben with the help of Eloise is responsible for getting the rest of them on the plane. Are they all on the same side?
    -miss

  490. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336614"][quote comment="336587"][quote comment="336584"]I think Hurley was still in jail until the morning of the flight.
    [/quote]

    Correcting myself here. I just watched the scene in the cab and Jacob tells Hurley A316 is in “twenty-four hours.”

    Also, there was some question about whether or not Jacob touched Hurley… he did, on the arm in the cab.

    : ) P[/quote]
    **********
    Still trying to figure out who is on what side for this upcoming war. Llana is connected to Jacob and is responsible for getting Sayid on the plane. Jacob himself is responsible for getting Hurley on the plane. Ben with the help of Eloise is responsible for getting the rest of them on the plane. Are they all on the same side?
    -miss[/quote]
    ____________

    Did anyone else notice the exchange between Ilana and Jacob when she was in the recovery room for some unknown injuries? I mean like she SAYS she’s really happy to see him…but it seems like she has to show she is but in reality she really fears him. Once they are done with their conversation you can tell in her eyes (because that’s all we can see) that she seems scared, IMO. Jacob had very “godfather” quality about him…like he is respected and feared, people obey and follow him even though he means trouble.

    Also, why were they speaking one language and then all of a sudden they go to english (btw was the latin, greek, russian??)

    Also, Bram and Co have obviously been to the island before, because they knew that if that knife in the wall with the piece of tapestry stuck it meant that he wasn’t there…and that the picture on the tapestry was a picture of the statue that is in fact on the island, how did they know WHERE it was and that it meant that that’s where they were going…

    help :)

  491. wingman says:

    [quote comment="336611"][quote comment="336123"]To me it is a cop-out. To watch this show for 5 years only to find out it’s some cosmic game between 2 people makes me feel like I wasted a little of my life. Like wingman said you can shape and shift almost any question back to “Jacob did it” now. We all knew they wouldn’t have time to explain every mystery in the final season. With the Jacob plot device you’ve killed like 70% of the questions easily. Honestly though it’s just not that impressive of a plot revelation IMO. God-like people who can control time and stuff seems very unimaginative to me. I much rather the Time Travel aspect of the show.[/quote]
    //////////////////////////////////////[quote comment="336127"]I’m not gonna go as far as calling it a total cop-out, but I am worried….But even if D&C decide to turn all of this on it’s head, to begin an 8 month break with the premise of this show being 2 guys playing a game of fate, that’s tuff for some of us to swallow…Ya see I think that the camp that was heavy into the biblical aspect of the show probably loved this…The whole Ben or Locke equaling Job, Kane and Abel, etc.,; these guys probably think the show is going in the right direction…For the camp that was more about the pragmatic parts of the show, the logic behind Time travel phenomenon, and how Time Travel begets Time Travel were probably really thrown off by the developments…I was more in the camp of thinking the Time Travel element of the show is what created “Jacob” and the set of events that started our story…I was equally shocked and disappointed when my greatest fear hit me upside the head no less than 2 mins into the show when it was reveled Jacob was just some dood eating fish, controlling stuff like bringing the Black Rock to the island from a beach rock…So for those following a certain thread of revelations in the show, they were probably happy about this, but the other side of the coin is confused and hurt by the fact that much of what they invested in certain characters and plot-points may seem meaningless now…I honestly didn’t want Jacob to just be some dood we never saw before, and he was that and a bag of Dharma-chips…[/quote]
    //////////////////////////////////Yes you are right. And to introduce two new characters on the seasons finale is …”moving the goal posts”! It makes all the discussing, hypothesizing, debating, that has gone with this show since the 1/1 of jacks eye pointless. After all isn’t the whole point of the blogs to throw ideas in? see what bounces back?. Even try to get something right that you, ve seen coming? No-one could have seen two guys on a beech, playing mind games. On the series finale! Even though my initial reaction was b*******, the finale did have me on the edge of my seat, it was exiting. But it did nothing to answer any questions, which were still hanging. On the plus side …TAWARET
    Ha! You know who you are, it seems some tools are sharper than others eh?
    Gmtaleah signing off. Until next we meet.[/quote]

    ======================================
    Finally, finally SOMEONE can give me piece of mind by agreeing with me…I’ve been to sites where they totally ripped this episode (and with some decent points), and I’ve been to sites where they act like this is the greatest ep of all time (and give equally good points), but I have yet to really talk to someone like me who thought the episode itself was extremely enjoyable yet the PREMISE of 2 guys playing some sort of game disappointing….While there are clues AFTER THE FACT that may point to this, I agree there has never been sufficient enuff plot-shaping that would lead one to overtly come to this conclusion (That’s one of the reasons I felt so disappointed, it was like everything I put into figuring out the show felt shafted by this reveal)…I tried to stay away a little while because I didn’t wanna bring down the room (as it seems most love what’s happening now), but I just kinda feel like the one kid in the candy store that wants a ham-sandwich…If I could go back to S1-S4 and just see something, anything concrete I wouldn’t feel this way…I don’t think the audience was ever given enuff in retrospect to validate HOW it’s revealed in this episode…

    To me they invested so much into explaining the Time Travel aspect from the very start…They meticulously and sometimes obviously dropped clue after clue that eventually and logically led to the events of S5 where the TT aspect was fully developed…So once TT came into effect I felt SATISFIED with the logic the show had used to bring me there, but I felt no satisfaction with the Jacob reveal (Or that his omnipresence may render the TT aspect obsolete)…It’s really like it came outta nowhere (again I understand the motifs throughout the show of Dark vs. Light, Science vs. Destiny, etc., but that’s one of a plethora of different motif-plotlines they could have eventually brought the audience towards)….Well atleast someone actually agrees with me on a similar level which helps with my sanity a bit…

  492. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336615"]
    Also, why were they speaking one language and then all of a sudden they go to english (btw was the latin, greek, russian??)[/quote]

    ABC and LOSTpedia say Russian (but it didn’t really sound Russian to me).

    : ) P

  493. wingman says:

    [quote comment="336584"][quote comment="336581"]So Jacob recruits Hurley 48 hrs before the plane crashes where about 48-72 hrs later he’s sitting like a lung cancer patient in a wooden chair looking sickly telling Ben he has a choice…[/quote]

    I don’t remember Jacob looking sickly, but I suppose that is a matter of opinion.

    However, I disagree with your timeline to a degree. I think Hurley was still in jail until the morning of the flight.

    Also, it sounds as if you are suggesting that everything that we saw happen once the A316’ers landed in 1977 happened in one day.

    As I can best recall, we see the A316’ers arrive and are assimilated into the DI; the next morning, we see them eating breakfast (waffles and ham?) and that NIGHT, Sayid shoots Ben; the next day, Kate and Sawyer take Ben to Alpert and that NIGHT, Faraday arrives; the next day all hell breaks loose.

    In 2007, we see the A316’ers arrive and that NIGHT Sun and Lapidus go to the big island; the next day, FLocke and Ben go to the big island, Lapidus takes off and that NIGHT Ben tries to summon Smokey by the barracks; the next day, Sun, Flocke and Ben go to Smokey’s lair under the wall around the temple and that NIGHT Flocke, the orator, tells the assorted red-shirted Others that they are going to see Jacob; the next day they play follow the leader and all hell breaks loose.

    In either scenario, it is the FOURTH day after A316 arrives that we see Jacob.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ========================

    Yeah I screwed up the time too…He did tell Hurley 24 hrs, but I’m still saying within 3-4 days of seeing Hurley Jacob is in his Mother Hubbard shoeless mansion…Jacob didn’t catch no flight back to the island, hence the omnipresence…Atleast with him visiting the other losties you could think he had all sorts of time to go back and forth from the island…

    Finally, I’m not of the belief of that what’s happening in 1977 is somehow happening simultaneously with Jacob’s current situation…Whatever happened in 1977 happened, and if the Losties somehow changed time (which I don’t believe they did) we are seeing the result of that in the present 2007 storyline…So I really was only measuring Jacob’s presence verses that of seeing Hurley in 2007 and being in the foot a few days later in 2007….I was gonna do the same 2007 time breakdown you did, so I agree with that, just not the1977 stuff…

  494. steve says:

    Can anyone explain why the others don’t foom with the Losties. If all this started with Ben moving the island and setting the FDW off it’s axis, why are the Others insulated from the time phenom?

  495. roses12 says:

    [quote comment="336625"]Can anyone explain why the others don’t foom with the Losties. If all this started with Ben moving the island and setting the FDW off it’s axis, why are the Others insulated from the time phenom?[/quote]
    maybe cos thats why Ben took them to the temple to keep them safe from the flashes in time. ooh.

  496. wingman says:

    Unfortunately the better answer is that only people Jacob touches can time flash…SO yes he probably touched every non-important Lostie, including the redshirts, the freightees, and Walt’s dawg…I thought it was the universe initially combating time travel via course correction…

  497. Bobola says:

    People cried when Sun found the ring? Really?
    I thought; “God, what an ugly ring…and Please! Don’t bring back that lousy singer again!”
    Too bad for you Charlie fans.

    So, why does Jacob practically allow himself to be killed?
    Clearly it isn’t the end for him; he’s been all over the place manipulating things and he doesn’t see the fake Locke come calling?
    That’s absurd.

    Sun sure didn’t have anything to do lately but mope. I bet the scene of her asking for alcohol was a real scene where they still had the camera running…and they kept it in! But I’d love it if the series REALLY went out on a limb and let Jin die, and then Sun hooks up with Ben and he becomes her babies Daddy. HA.
    But of course the series will go all Hollywood with a happy ending for the crowd that loves kitsch.

    I also don’t like the passive role the Pilot has now; such a fine actor wasted while Hugo gets way too much screen time—and too much food too.

    What a bullshit fight between Jack and Sawyer.
    Sawyer would have kicked Jack’s ass in seconds in real life. And all the extra blood and such; after getting hit that hard you ARE NOT up and about like they were. Pure baloney. And Jack’s hands are precious, him being a SURGEON…and he would have been aching and in deep pain after those punches. Clearly these writers have never been in a serious fight. I have— and your hands are in serious pain afterwards. Are they trying to be all 24 now…? WTF?

    And why the HUGE case for Locke’s body? And; Isn’t he pretty stinky now after rotting in the tropics for days? People at the beach would have smelled him coming. Why tote the whole body anyways? If you need to prove him dead, just take the head.

    So now we have to see; is Jacob evil or is the guy in Locke’s cloned body who wants him dead the real baddie? That’s my take; Jacob is good.

    But how the hell did they guy make a duplicate Locke body and THEN inhabit it? More weird stuff to explain….Jeeeez!
    And sure we know now what the statue looks like but not why it’s Egyptian.

    We know what a shit Ben has been…and also what a liar he always has been. What a dumb ass comment by freckles about saving the boy Ben; I guess if she could kill Hitler as a boy….no way; he’s a baby!
    Too bad for the Jews and millions of others? Can’t hurt no babies!

    Well, the series has certainly got a lot of answers to still provide. Someone going to have to be a genius to pull it off. Somehow I doubt it. Others are expressing doubt that it’s gonna end well. I’m hopeful as always.
    What else can I do? I’m hooked.

    Loved seeing that Allen Ginsberg looking creep from Dharma get killed off…but I love the bad guys who are so much fun to hate on; would LOVE to have seen a back story on him. He’s ALL impulse with a mean streak. Maybe he’s Keamy’s daddy!

    And what’s in the damn guitar case? I hope it’s a diet book.

  498. steve says:

    [quote comment="336627"][quote comment="336625"]Can anyone explain why the others don’t foom with the Losties. If all this started with Ben moving the island and setting the FDW off it’s axis, why are the Others insulated from the time phenom?[/quote]
    maybe cos thats why Ben took them to the temple to keep them safe from the flashes in time. ooh.[/quote]

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    What about the group that was in the clearing with Locke when Ben moved the FDW? They weren’t at the temple. remember RA answers Locke’s question about where they went, and RA said we didn’t go anywhere John, You did.

  499. steve says:

    [quote comment="336628"]Unfortunately the better answer is that only people Jacob touches can time flash…SO yes he probably touched every non-important Lostie, including the redshirts, the freightees, and Walt’s dawg…I thought it was the universe initially combating time travel via course correction…[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    Did we see Jacob touch Daniel and Charlotte and Miles and Rose and Bernard…?

  500. wingman says:

    [quote comment="336659"][quote comment="336628"]Unfortunately the better answer is that only people Jacob touches can time flash…SO yes he probably touched every non-important Lostie, including the redshirts, the freightees, and Walt’s dawg…I thought it was the universe initially combating time travel via course correction…[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    Did we see Jacob touch Daniel and Charlotte and Miles and Rose and Bernard…?[/quote]

    ==================
    I’m just speculating based who he did touch…If we’re moving toward a God-powered season it certainly wouldn’t be something too hard for Jacob to do…

  501. steve says:

    [quote comment="336662"][quote comment="336659"][quote comment="336628"]Unfortunately the better answer is that only people Jacob touches can time flash…SO yes he probably touched every non-important Lostie, including the redshirts, the freightees, and Walt’s dawg…I thought it was the universe initially combating time travel via course correction…[/quote]
    _________________________________________

    Did we see Jacob touch Daniel and Charlotte and Miles and Rose and Bernard…?[/quote]

    ==================
    I’m just speculating based who he did touch…If we’re moving toward a God-powered season it certainly wouldn’t be something too hard for Jacob to do…[/quote]

    ________________________________

    I hope that’s not where this is going.

  502. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336625"]Can anyone explain why the others don’t foom with the Losties. If all this started with Ben moving the island and setting the FDW off it’s axis, why are the Others insulated from the time phenom?[/quote]

    There is speculation that all of the Others are not “alive” exactly – perhaps visible Whisperers, apparitions, or indeed even zombies.

    : ) P

  503. steve says:

    [quote comment="336669"][quote comment="336625"]Can anyone explain why the others don’t foom with the Losties. If all this started with Ben moving the island and setting the FDW off it’s axis, why are the Others insulated from the time phenom?[/quote]

    There is speculation that all of the Others are not “alive” exactly – perhaps visible Whisperers, apparitions, or indeed even zombies.

    : ) P[/quote]

    I guess that could explain some things. This would leave Juliet, who Ben said would always be one of the others. in a special category.

  504. ScottIsLostWithoutLost says:

    There is indeed something off about the others. The rag-tag group of nobodies that you barely hear a peep out of. They ain’t regular-human, I tell you.

    The statue is a blending of Juliette and Vincent; that’s what the ancient Egyptians model her after.

    I feel neither thrilled nor devastated that we have a “2 guys on a beach” scenario upon us. It all depends on HOW season 6 is.

    Of course, if a universal mono-God plays any part, I will vomit. But I know Darlton isn’t going there. No way. Jacob and Esau are not the top of the ladder.

  505. Jay says:

    [quote comment="336228"]And, for those of you who have groaned at the biblical references, and who fear that the fate of our characters is sealed along with the fate of biblical characters… it’s called allusion. It’s not called plot copycat. The writers of Lost are borrowing plot devices such as conflict, style, motif, and even names from many, many things. The bible is quite obvious, especially as of late, but there are also allusions to The Iliad, Paradise Lost, and Egyption mythology, to name a few. So don’t grumble when you see that Ben is playing the role of Job, because he is also playing the roles of many characters from works that have used that theme before. And if you think the Island is the Garden of Eden, you are wrong; it is what the Garden of Eden represents.

    And don’t grumble thinking that you know the outcome to this story because you know the outcome of Paradise Lost. The creators of Lost are wielding (or weaving!!) a web filled with allusions to some of the best works of literature in history, but the outcome is their own. We don’t know how Lost is going to end. Lost is its own work of literature.[/quote]
    ***
    Well said!

  506. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment="335758"]I am really surprised that everyone has jumped on the “Jacob is good” bandwagon. When we were watching it, I immediately thought he was bad in the flashback scenes. Think about it, everytime he interacts with a Lostie, they begin their bad behavior.

    When he buys the lunchbox for Kate, he basically gets her out of learning a lesson, he endorses her behavior.

    Sawyer is persuaded not to write the letter and then Jacob shows up and gives him a pen. Total enabler.

    Same with Sayid, he distracts Sayid and causes his wife to die. Perhaps if Sayid hadn’t been distracted, he would have seen the car coming and pulled NAdia to safety – he is a trained soldier after all.

    With Jack and Hugo, it’s a little less clear but put me in the camp who thinks Jacob is not such a good guy.[/quote]

    Well not only would Jack and Hugo be tough to explain in this theory, but what about Locke? He comforts John and says ‘everything will be alright’. I’m not saying jacob is definitely good, but I still think they kept it too vague. If the ‘Esau’ is the good one, then he still could want to KILL Jacob, but not unless he TOO were somewhat ‘bad’. If he is to represent ‘good’ then he wouldn’t want to kill Jacob. Now, saying that…it could be why he needed a loophole….if he is not allowed to actually do ‘bad’ then perhaps that is why he used Ben. BUT, even though it did seem overly and suspiciously obvious, Jacob did seem to want more positive outcomes. AND, afterall, if Esau is ‘good’ then why would he insist that RA go tell Locke he had to die. Seems too far from ‘good’ for me.

  507. Arturo says:

    I don’t think anybody mentioned that before, but may know the cause of childbirth death on the island, it is due to radiation leakage from the hydrogen bomb which is burried under the village. I think when they burried it there it was 1950’s, and in 1970’s it was still possible to give birth because radiation didn’t look far enough yet. So I think it has nothing to do with statue of fertility.

  508. wingman says:

    Not a bad perspective to ponder Bobbi, but I doubt seriously that after setting up all the Light vs. Dark motifs that are littered in this show, that they would make the good character “Dark” and the bad character “Light”…I just can’t see that happening…That would just be more cheating…

  509. BaileyLovesLost says:

    So the beach guy/Jacob’s enemy/shape shifter has taken the form of Locke. I’m assuming that he has also taken on the shape of many other people we’ve seen on the island who weren’t supposed to be there…. Walt, Christian, Dave (Hurley’s imaginary friend), the black horse Kate saw in the jungle, Alex (when she appeared to Ben), possibly even Anthony Cooper (when Locke brought Sawyer to kill him). So, I am going to throw this out there. Claire’s mom was in a coma for a few years. Then suddenly about 10-months after O815 crashes she is out of her coma and well enough to travel from Australia to LA to attend Christian Shepherd’s funeral and tell Jack that he has a sister Claire who was on the same flight. But yet, she doesn’t know that her daughter was eight months pregnant. First of all, as a mother wouldn’t you question why your daughter is flying all the way from Australia to LA by herself? Wouldn’t someone had told Carole that Claire was pregnant? (Like her aunt?) Also, from being in a coma that long wouldn’t she need some major rehabilitation and not just be traveling around like all is well and nothing happened?

    So, could the beach guy/Jacob’s enemy/shape shifter shape shifted himself to be Claire’s mom to somehow get Aaron? After all, how coincidental is it that she just shows up in LA the day before the O6 are leaving on A316?

    Any thoughts?

  510. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336714"]So the beach guy/Jacob’s enemy/shape shifter has taken the form of Locke. I’m assuming that he has also taken on the shape of many other people we’ve seen on the island who weren’t supposed to be there…. Walt, Christian, Dave (Hurley’s imaginary friend), the black horse Kate saw in the jungle, Alex (when she appeared to Ben), possibly even Anthony Cooper (when Locke brought Sawyer to kill him). So, I am going to throw this out there. Claire’s mom was in a coma for a few years. Then suddenly about 10-months after O815 crashes she is out of her coma and well enough to travel from Australia to LA to attend Christian Shepherd’s funeral and tell Jack that he has a sister Claire who was on the same flight. But yet, she doesn’t know that her daughter was eight months pregnant. First of all, as a mother wouldn’t you question why your daughter is flying all the way from Australia to LA by herself? Wouldn’t someone had told Carole that Claire was pregnant? (Like her aunt?) Also, from being in a coma that long wouldn’t she need some major rehabilitation and not just be traveling around like all is well and nothing happened?

    So, could the beach guy/Jacob’s enemy/shape shifter shape shifted himself to be Claire’s mom to somehow get Aaron? After all, how coincidental is it that she just shows up in LA the day before the O6 are leaving on A316?

    Any thoughts?[/quote]

    Bailey, you may have something – definitely plausible. Scary plot-twist plausible.

    FWIW, yes Carole never said Claire was pregnant on the flight, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t know.

    : ) P

  511. BaileyLovesLost says:

    Bailey, you may have something – definitely plausible. Scary plot-twist plausible.

    FWIW, yes Carole never said Claire was pregnant on the flight, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t know.

    : ) P[/quote]

    *****

    She seemed really surprised when Jack mentioned Aaron when he went to see her at the hotel. Of course she wouldn’t know the name or even that Claire had given birth, but still….

  512. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336719"]Bailey, you may have something – definitely plausible. Scary plot-twist plausible.

    FWIW, yes Carole never said Claire was pregnant on the flight, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t know.

    : ) P[/quote]

    *****

    She seemed really surprised when Jack mentioned Aaron when he went to see her at the hotel. Of course she wouldn’t know the name or even that Claire had given birth, but still….[/quote]

    _________________

    I like it alot….i think it gives reason to go back to start over and watch from season 1

  513. Omar Kamel says:

    Oh, god.

    It just hit me.

    No more Locke? I mean, sure – we’ve got Terry O’Quinn playing FLocke, etc – but…but…

    I want more Locke. I don’t WANT Locke dead.

    So I hope whatever happens somehow at LEAST brings back Locke – maybe…er..

    Damn.

    No more John Locke?!

    That’s such a pooper :(

  514. BaileyLovesLost says:

    I really hope we haven’t seen the end of Jacob. He was just shown in one episode. I really really hope it’s not one of those things where the writers didn’t really know what to do with him, so they killed him off. (Kind of like Nikki and Paulo.)

    Also, remember how the cabin was originally guarded by sand when Ben first took Locke to the cabin to visit “Jacob?” We know Christian inhabited this cabin. We also know that when Ilana and Braum went there they saw that the ash was separated and then they burned it down. Well, if “Jacob’s enemy” took the form of Christian all along on the island, then I think it is safe to assume that “Christian” is bad. Christian also told Claire to leave baby Aaron in the jungle and Claire said that Aaron is where he is supposed to be (almost supporting my theory of “Jacob’s enemy” being Carole to get his hands on Aaron – Aaron is where he is supposed to be meaning Kate gets Aaron, “Jacob’s enemygets Aaron by shape shifting into Carole….). Christian also told Locke that he needed to turn the FDW and bring the O6 back. We know why and how he had to bring the O6 back – “Jacob’s enemy” had Richard tell Locke that he had to die to bring them back. So this puts the pieces together that “Jacob’s enemy” was Christian making the events happen for Locke to die so that “Jacob’s enemy” could become bad Locke and ultimately kill Jacob. However, “Jacob’s enemy”cannot kill Jacob. So, Ben stabbed him multiple times in the chest. But bad Locke pushed him into the fire which ulitmately killed him. So how is that allowed? “Jacob’s enemy” couldn’t kill him as bad Locke, but he could warp Ben’s mind into killing him, but bad Locke also killed him. Hmmmm…. that doesn’t seem like it’s allowed. Unless once you find a loophole the rules don’t matter.

    Does anyone remember if in “Cabin Fever” the ash by the cabin was separated?

    Also, Jacob’s infamous “They’re coming” last words…. if the fade to white was indeed a flash in time, this could support him meaning Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, etc…. (those four were on his list – I think Sayid was later added to Jacob’s list once Jacob realized how awesome Sayid is) are the ones coming. Perhaps Jacob made the list in order to get them to that moment in time to come and save Jacob.

  515. Omar Kamel says:

    Anyway, grief for Locke aside…

    I really don’t think we’re anywhere NEAR seeing a plane safely land in LA. And for anybody who thinks so – what exactly do you expect to watch 17 more hours of? Customs? Passport control :) ?

    As for Jacob. My impression during the Jacob scenes was not that these were encounters that had ALREADY happened – but that these were ‘new’ interventions designed perhaps to change the characters – make them better, somehow. I really think he was trying to re-shape them, heal them somehow – as though after bringing them to the island, he perhaps realized that they were damaged, and couldn’t pull off whatever he needed them for – and that these new interventions were taking place so that they’d be stronger somehow.

    I think somebody else already mentioned this as a possibility – that the Jacob flashes were ‘new’ things, not old things.

    Let me explain:

    Kate – perhaps ‘initially’ (I’ll call it T1 for Timeline 1) Kate had been caught as we saw. Had been punished for it, and as happens often enough with kids who get punished, she rebelled and got worse. Whereas when he gave her a break, did her a favor and had her promise to be good – she actually got better.

    Sawyer – Perhaps in T1 – Sawyer had run out of ink, put the letter away, was never seen writing it – and therefore got to finish it. But now – having given him the pen, it allows the other guy to SEE him still writing the letter, and therefore extract a promise from him that he wouldn’t finish the letter.

    Sayid – In T1 – Sayid was recruited by Ben, because whether or not Nadia was killed by an assassin as Ben told him, she was killed while he wasn’t around – and so could be told a manipulative story by Ben that would drive Sayid back into the role of assassin – therefore making him eventually choose to try to kill Ben, which actually led to Ben becoming an other, etc..etc..and finally killing Jacob. In T2 – Nadia dies in what seems to Sayid – an accident, car accident, pure and simple. Sad, but not something that makes an assassin out of a person.

    The Jack encounter was different, though – not sure why, as was (clearly) the Hurley encounter.

    Hmm..

  516. Chang's arm says:

    So now it’s cool if these island God dudes not only do their magic on the island but off of it aswell? So now Claire’s mom might be an off-island magic spell by anti-Jacob? And people are cool with this?

    2 of my favorite mysteries on this show were Richard’s aging and John Locke’s reversed paralysis. When Richard admitted that Jacob just “made” him that way I felt like someone just pulled the chair from under me. I mean all the theories I read on this blog were 10 times better than that. Now if the God’s can do off-island magic you might aswell pull my soul out of me. What about all the stuff with Boone and Locke where Locke’s leg couldn’t work? Then we see in later seasons’ where he got shot near the smugglers’ plane and his leg wouldn’t work. These things seemed interconnected, but now it looks like it was just the island God puppeteer magic making this happen. I mean why would Locke be able to use his legs in the real world? Oh because anti-Jacob’s island magic let him do so. Man that is so wak.

    Wingman I read your post and I can tell you are close to loosing it, but are trying to control yourself. I’m with you brotha, but I can’t soften the blow. I’ve been reading this blog for like over 3 years and have been toiling over figuring out Lost for 5 years and I can’t believe how people are just loving this incredibly uncreative island god stuff that craps on so many of our theories it’s not even funny. I could almost accept anit-Jacob being EVERY apparition in the history of the show, but his magic even works off-island and lets Locke walk and him become Claire’s mom too? I swear, Me, you and gtmaleah might be the only people on the INTERNET not eating this off of a cracker. Can’t believe how much people are ignoring how we’ve been cheated with this storyline.

  517. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336820"]So now it’s cool if these island God dudes not only do their magic on the island but off of it aswell? So now Claire’s mom might be an off-island magic spell by anti-Jacob? And people are cool with this?

    2 of my favorite mysteries on this show were Richard’s aging and John Locke’s reversed paralysis. When Richard admitted that Jacob just “made” him that way I felt like someone just pulled the chair from under me. I mean all the theories I read on this blog were 10 times better than that. Now if the God’s can do off-island magic you might aswell pull my soul out of me. What about all the stuff with Boone and Locke where Locke’s leg couldn’t work? Then we see in later seasons’ where he got shot near the smugglers’ plane and his leg wouldn’t work. These things seemed interconnected, but now it looks like it was just the island God puppeteer magic making this happen. I mean why would Locke be able to use his legs in the real world? Oh because anti-Jacob’s island magic let him do so. Man that is so wak.

    Wingman I read your post and I can tell you are close to loosing it, but are trying to control yourself. I’m with you brotha, but I can’t soften the blow. I’ve been reading this blog for like over 3 years and have been toiling over figuring out Lost for 5 years and I can’t believe how people are just loving this incredibly uncreative island god stuff that craps on so many of our theories it’s not even funny. I could almost accept anit-Jacob being EVERY apparition in the history of the show, but his magic even works off-island and lets Locke walk and him become Claire’s mom too? I swear, Me, you and gtmaleah might be the only people on the INTERNET not eating this off of a cracker. Can’t believe how much people are ignoring how we’ve been cheated with this storyline.[/quote]

    __________

    you act like you know exactly how the rest of the show is going to go….we don’t know everything about jacob and his enemy…we don’t know who is good and who is bad…we don’t know how everyone else was brought to the island except the scenes we saw Jacob visiting the O6 (that’s also been debated that these are new timelines)…i actually think it’s kind of weird how all these people just “came together”…you can’t deny that their is a higher power (besides the island) handling all this

    it’s kind of weird how you think the island is ok to have this magic power but not jacob or his enemy? did you honestly believe that it was JUST the island? I mean c’mon….the theories we all have are still valid…we don’t know how widmore and eloise fit in either. We don’t know WHY richard was given his ability to not age or even HOW…was he just touched? was he brought to the temple?

    All i’m saying is you’ve stuck with this show for as long as you say you did and you keep coming back for more because you have faith in the writers of this show…i don’t think you should be so quick to crap on the island god theory….sure it’s “easy” but we still don’t know how it’s going to end! just like jacob said…it’s all progress…and clearly the progress takes a LONG time…i for one find it interesting the time invested these two who we know so little about have dedicated their time to proving each other wrong

  518. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336811"]Well, if “Jacob’s enemy” took the form of Christian all along on the island, then I think it is safe to assume that “Christian” is bad. Christian also told Claire to leave baby Aaron in the jungle and Claire said that Aaron is where he is supposed to be (almost supporting my theory of “Jacob’s enemy” being Carole to get his hands on Aaron – Aaron is where he is supposed to be meaning Kate gets Aaron, “Jacob’s enemygets Aaron by shape shifting into Carole….).[/quote]

    You had me for a while, Bailey, but now you’ve lost me again. I can see Jacob’s Nemesis (JN) (sorry, I am not willing to call him Esau) taking the role of Carole to get Aaron from Kate. However, if you then add JN taking the role of Christian to get Claire to give up the baby, then Claire to haunt Kate, THEN Carole to take Aaron, why didn’t JN just keep Aaron when Claire gave him up?

    : ) P

  519. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="336840"][quote comment="336820"]it’s kind of weird how you think the island is ok to have this magic power but not jacob or his enemy? did you honestly believe that it was JUST the island? [/quote]

    Right? To me it looks like Jacob is just putting a face to “The Island.” How long have we all been saying, The Island did this or The Island did that? We can get away with that on the blog, but it wouldn’t make good writing for the show. I think most of us have personified the island for a long time… Jacob is the face of the island… thats it.

    After this me and the Island are gonna go have a beer. The Islands gonna sing If You Like Pina Coladas on the Karaoke machine.

  520. BaileyLovesLost says:

    [quote comment="336845"][quote comment="336811"]Well, if “Jacob’s enemy” took the form of Christian all along on the island, then I think it is safe to assume that “Christian” is bad. Christian also told Claire to leave baby Aaron in the jungle and Claire said that Aaron is where he is supposed to be (almost supporting my theory of “Jacob’s enemy” being Carole to get his hands on Aaron – Aaron is where he is supposed to be meaning Kate gets Aaron, “Jacob’s enemygets Aaron by shape shifting into Carole….).[/quote]

    You had me for a while, Bailey, but now you’ve lost me again. I can see Jacob’s Nemesis (JN) (sorry, I am not willing to call him Esau) taking the role of Carole to get Aaron from Kate. However, if you then add JN taking the role of Christian to get Claire to give up the baby, then Claire to haunt Kate, THEN Carole to take Aaron, why didn’t JN just keep Aaron when Claire gave him up?

    : ) P[/quote]

    *****
    I haven’t quite figured that out yet, lol. If free will is incorporated to all of this, perhaps “JN” can’t just take the baby but he has to be “given” the baby. I mean, Carole/”JN” couldn’t just take Aaron (if she knew he even existed), Kate had to be willing to give him to her. So “Bad Locke” could just outright kill Jacob, he had to have Ben do it out of his own free will. “Bad Locke” didn’t say, “OK, Ben, kill him now.” Ben spoke with Jacob and chose to kill Jacob on his own. I don’t think Ben would have ever killed Jacob without “bad Locke’s” intervention somehow. Make sense?

  521. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="336804"]Oh, god.

    It just hit me.

    No more Locke? I mean, sure – we’ve got Terry O’Quinn playing FLocke, etc – but…but…

    I want more Locke. I don’t WANT Locke dead.

    So I hope whatever happens somehow at LEAST brings back Locke – maybe…er..

    Damn.

    No more John Locke?!

    That’s such a pooper :([/quote]

    I agree… I always had faith that John Locke would be the one to turn things around. His heart is always in the right place, and he has a deep will to do what is right, but as we know he is easily used up by the wrong people (or GODS!) …I don’t know how they would possibly get around dead is dead, but Jack did say “Don’t give up on him.” To Richard, at a key moment in the episode, and thats how I’ve alwqys felt about Locke. Lockes best moments on the show have always been when he’s defied odds. Perhaps why the opposite side chose him in the equation. But I have believed all along that Locke is being used by the wrong side, but in the end his will would force him to be the winning factor for the right side. SO, I won’t give up on him yet. Somehow, someway he’s got a “Shit-Yeeaah” moment left in him. I hope.

    P.S. if someone asks you if you are a God, you say “yes.”

  522. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="336817"]Anyway, grief for Locke aside…

    I really don’t think we’re anywhere NEAR seeing a plane safely land in LA. And for anybody who thinks so – what exactly do you expect to watch 17 more hours of? Customs? Passport control :) ?

    —————–

    Thanks for the great laugh!

    I just came back from France and it seemed like FOREVER to get through the Security and they checked my Passport SIX fucking times.
    Then I got wanded and patted down and treated like meat with a typical French attitude.
    I didn’t have any metal except fillings on me and still set off the machine…I think they deliberately set it off to make an excuse to check me over. I went thru MANY detectors in Europe and never set it off before; EVER.
    And the intercom makes horrible announcements in garbled English at 90 miles an hour…so you’ll NEVER get the message.
    Been to PAris many times but I’m fed up; the prices are horrible.
    Next time; Bali, with sweet people and cheap prices in paradise.
    So, yes…maybe it’s true! They land in Frogland?

    Back in US a dog was sniffing my pack but missed the roach in my pocket I still had that I forgot about from Amsterdam!
    I would have been sweating bullets if I’d known it was there.

    —–
    Ok, sorry bout the rant.
    Back to the show;

    How the hell does Juliet fall like a mile down and with all sorts of metal and still be conscious or even alive?
    And why was she playing with the chains so that she got all wrapped up? Is she that much into S&M?
    (“You guys go on shooting…I’m gonna slip into some chains…”)

    Sawyer has been so terrific lately.
    But I’m gonna cry foul if he hooks up again with freckles. He doesn’t need to go back to the Trailer Park.

    Favorite line by Ben:
    “I’m a Pieces.”
    And his speech to Jacob was great.

    But the snotty remark and lack of fear on Jacob’s part must mean he has nothing to worry about.
    Is the Semi-Demi-God just tired of living? Or just run out of wall space to paint like an Egyptian?

    I too am sad that the real Locke is dead.
    But not too sad if the actor lives on in the form of the fake Locke. Hell, I’ll take what I can get…as long as Charlie stays dead.
    If he comes back then I demand to get Keamy and Patchy back too…and have them slowly torture Charlie with some Classical music in a cell in 24 hour shifts.

  523. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336851"]
    How the hell does Juliet fall like a mile down and with all sorts of metal and still be conscious or even alive?[/quote]

    Probably the same way that Michael can’t kill himself and Mikhail didn’t die. The “island wasn’t finished with” her yet.

    : ) P

  524. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336852"][quote comment="336851"]
    How the hell does Juliet fall like a mile down and with all sorts of metal and still be conscious or even alive?[/quote]

    Probably the same way that Michael can’t kill himself and Mikhail didn’t die. The “island wasn’t finished with” her yet.

    : ) P[/quote]
    – – – – – – –

    Or the island healed her.

    Or the same way that the O6 survived the helicopter crash.

    Or, as a “special” Other, she can’t die – because she isn’t quite alive? I say special because she did time jump with the LOSTies AND she speaks Latin. *bg*

    : ) P

  525. Chang's arm says:

    [quote comment="336840"][quote comment="336820"]So now it’s cool if these island God dudes not only do their magic on the island but off of it aswell? So now Claire’s mom might be an off-island magic spell by anti-Jacob? And people are cool with this?

    2 of my favorite mysteries on this show were Richard’s aging and John Locke’s reversed paralysis. When Richard admitted that Jacob just “made” him that way I felt like someone just pulled the chair from under me. I mean all the theories I read on this blog were 10 times better than that. Now if the God’s can do off-island magic you might aswell pull my soul out of me. What about all the stuff with Boone and Locke where Locke’s leg couldn’t work? Then we see in later seasons’ where he got shot near the smugglers’ plane and his leg wouldn’t work. These things seemed interconnected, but now it looks like it was just the island God puppeteer magic making this happen. I mean why would Locke be able to use his legs in the real world? Oh because anti-Jacob’s island magic let him do so. Man that is so wak.

    Wingman I read your post and I can tell you are close to loosing it, but are trying to control yourself. I’m with you brotha, but I can’t soften the blow. I’ve been reading this blog for like over 3 years and have been toiling over figuring out Lost for 5 years and I can’t believe how people are just loving this incredibly uncreative island god stuff that craps on so many of our theories it’s not even funny. I could almost accept anit-Jacob being EVERY apparition in the history of the show, but his magic even works off-island and lets Locke walk and him become Claire’s mom too? I swear, Me, you and gtmaleah might be the only people on the INTERNET not eating this off of a cracker. Can’t believe how much people are ignoring how we’ve been cheated with this storyline.[/quote]

    __________

    you act like you know exactly how the rest of the show is going to go….we don’t know everything about jacob and his enemy…we don’t know who is good and who is bad…we don’t know how everyone else was brought to the island except the scenes we saw Jacob visiting the O6 (that’s also been debated that these are new timelines)…i actually think it’s kind of weird how all these people just “came together”…you can’t deny that their is a higher power (besides the island) handling all this

    it’s kind of weird how you think the island is ok to have this magic power but not jacob or his enemy? did you honestly believe that it was JUST the island? I mean c’mon….the theories we all have are still valid…we don’t know how widmore and eloise fit in either. We don’t know WHY richard was given his ability to not age or even HOW…was he just touched? was he brought to the temple?

    All i’m saying is you’ve stuck with this show for as long as you say you did and you keep coming back for more because you have faith in the writers of this show…i don’t think you should be so quick to crap on the island god theory….sure it’s “easy” but we still don’t know how it’s going to end! just like jacob said…it’s all progress…and clearly the progress takes a LONG time…i for one find it interesting the time invested these two who we know so little about have dedicated their time to proving each other wrong[/quote]

    =======================================

    My problem JZ, is that there was no shot to really figure this out based upon what we are given. I can’t tell you how many times I have watched certain eps with Richard, rewinding dialog and episodes over and over again, searching for the smallest of clues to make sense of thinking it’s gonna be some really creative reveal only to find out “Jacob made me this way”. The same with Locke’s crippleness.I mean there were nights I couldn’t sleep thinking about how awesome it was going to be to finally find out what let him do this, but to find out that an island god just gave him the power to walk just doesn’t inspire me.

    I mean I think many of us can come up with an idea or scenario where for 5 years all kinds of crazy, unexplainable, nutty shit happens then going into the final season give the audience the impression that 2 super-island God’s are responsible for much if not all of it by shape-shifting and “touching” people. I just don’t think that does all hardcore fans justice.

    I’m no scholar but with only 17 eps left I don’t think I need to know exactly how the rest of the show will transpire to understand that many of the mysteries will have no choice to be related back to the power of 2 people (Why else make that the BIG plot-twist?). I also can understand that these 2 people may have dominion over the island, but once you bring that into the real world there’s nothing “real” about that world anymore.

    I could deal with Time travel because Lost was great at explaining it. I could see how Eloise, Richard, and Widmore meeting Jack, Sawyer, and company in the past could make a loop that encourages them to make sure Jack, Sawyer, and company get back to the island. But magic island God’s just throw all logic in the Roger’s trashbin… I feel like the days, weeks, months, years, I spent trying to figure things out were just wasted, because I never had a chance. I never would have considered 2 people controlling most of everything, because that’s such a simple solution I would have never taken it seriously. I haven’t given up on Lost I’m just voicing my concerns which it seems only me and 2 other people on this entire blog even care about.

  526. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="336849"]
    I agree… I always had faith that John Locke would be the one to turn things around. His heart is always in the right place, and he has a deep will to do what is right, but as we know he is easily used up by the wrong people (or GODS!) …I don’t know how they would possibly get around dead is dead, but Jack did say “Don’t give up on him.” To Richard, at a key moment in the episode, and thats how I’ve alwqys felt about Locke. Lockes best moments on the show have always been when he’s defied odds….in the end his will would force him to be the winning factor for the right side. SO, I won’t give up on him yet. Somehow, someway he’s got a “Shit-Yeeaah” moment left in him. I hope.
    [/quote]

    I really hope so. With all due respect to Terry, I want LOCKE!

    lol

    If Locke doesn’t end up alive, Season 6 is just going to seem like one long funeral to me :(

    Ungh.

  527. Pauric says:

    posted on the wrong blog, but here is my theory on the series 5 finale

    the white light at the end of the finale is obviously the light that transported them thru time and i think that they have been transported further back to the past ie. they are on the blackrock…the guy said to jacob “they come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt, it always ends the same” i think he is just not refering to humanity but to a select group of people ie. the losties…in every time period the past and the future his statement is proved correct but jacob believes they can change therefore putting them thru different time periods to see if they can finally co exist and accept their fate on the island…however why is the other guy so against this happening and wants to kill jacob, i reckon jacob is trying to prove that humanity can change thus when this is proven they are bestowed control of the island but the other guy believes they are not suitable since he believes they will destroy this paradise…i think the reason they dont remember being in the past is simply the rules of the game jacob is playing to prove humanity can change they must do it of their own free will, no influences

  528. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="336857"]I haven’t given up on Lost I’m just voicing my concerns which it seems only me and 2 other people on this entire blog even care about.[/quote]

    I can’t speak for anybody else, but the reason I’m not ‘yet’ making a big deal out of this is because I’m assuming, that as usual, we’ve received an incomplete explanation of things even up to this very moment.

    In other words, I think ‘Jacob made me this way’ – is a prelude to a more involved answer – i.e. WHO or WHAT is Jacob? WHY did he make Richard that way? HOW did he make Richard that way? How does he even have the POWER to make Richard that way? Etc.

    People are assuming (like others did with Time Travel, by the way) – that the introduction of Jacob & JN is code for ‘anything goes’ – this is only true if there were no rules by which Jacob and JN have to abide, and if anything, the show has made it clear that such rules DO exist. Hence the need for a loophole.

    I don’t think we should feel disappointed until and unless those rules are never articulated AND/OR they’re articulated but are fundementally ‘broken’ or ‘leaky’. Time has yet to work out that particular concern.

    In short, I think you’re counting your er…disappointments before they…hatch? lol

  529. JZ says:

    [quote comment="336861"][quote comment="336857"]I haven’t given up on Lost I’m just voicing my concerns which it seems only me and 2 other people on this entire blog even care about.[/quote]

    I can’t speak for anybody else, but the reason I’m not ‘yet’ making a big deal out of this is because I’m assuming, that as usual, we’ve received an incomplete explanation of things even up to this very moment.

    In other words, I think ‘Jacob made me this way’ – is a prelude to a more involved answer – i.e. WHO or WHAT is Jacob? WHY did he make Richard that way? HOW did he make Richard that way? How does he even have the POWER to make Richard that way? Etc.

    People are assuming (like others did with Time Travel, by the way) – that the introduction of Jacob & JN is code for ‘anything goes’ – this is only true if there were no rules by which Jacob and JN have to abide, and if anything, the show has made it clear that such rules DO exist. Hence the need for a loophole.

    I don’t think we should feel disappointed until and unless those rules are never articulated AND/OR they’re articulated but are fundementally ‘broken’ or ‘leaky’. Time has yet to work out that particular concern.

    In short, I think you’re counting your er…disappointments before they…hatch? lol[/quote]

    _________

    YES! That is what I was trying to say before to Chang….thanks Omar! There’s no way you can be disappointed just yet….we don’t know that he is the answer to every strange thing…

    thing that bothers me the most about your frustration is that you were ok with the island being the answer to everything (why they came, why someone can’t kill themselves, why someone doesn’t die after they have fatal injuries…the list goes on) but you are not ok with it being an actual person or god for that matter, because in essescene the island WAS a god…i don’t think they were able to get any scientific explanation or regular human reasoning to explain everything….like Omar said there ARE rules…we all are still debating what those rules are and how they apply

  530. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336857"]I feel like the days, weeks, months, years, I spent trying to figure things out were just wasted, because I never had a chance. I never would have considered 2 people controlling most of everything, because that’s such a simple solution I would have never taken it seriously. I haven’t given up on Lost I’m just voicing my concerns which it seems only me and 2 other people on this entire blog even care about.[/quote]

    I can assure you that you are not alone in your concerns. However, I don’t plan on contributing to your (collective, not just you, Chang’s arm) BMC session because I don’t think it is productive. I said WEEKS ago that I hope that Jacob isn’t the reason for EVERYTHING because it would be a cop-out. But I am also willing to put a LOT of faith in D&C that there is a LOT more to the story – because heretofore, they have rarely disappointed me. I promise you, this is NOT the last plot twist we are going to see.

    So, while you (again, collectively) may feel alone in your concern over where the program is headed, please understand you are not. I just don’t plan on fretting about it for the next eight+ months.

    : ) P

  531. Pauric says:

    [quote comment="336547"][quote comment="336545"][quote comment="336534"][quote comment="336493"][quote comment="336391"][quote comment="336380"]Just clear up any confusion about burying the dead. The Others don’t bury them…they send them out to sea. So maybe buried or not, dead bodies ON the island have ramifications…dead bodies OFF the island don’t?[/quote]
    **************
    Right! Maybe this is why Amy was sooooo concerned about burrying the dead. Maybe they didn’t burry an Other once only to see that person wondering around again?[/quote]

    _________________

    Amy was concerned with burying the dead because that was part of the truce that the Dharma folks had with the Others… I assumed that meant that all dead had to be buried. I think we only saw the others send one of their own out to sea… and they torched her body in addition.

    I could be wrong about that, of course… but I assumed that the Others have a policy that they must bury all dead.. or, I guess in some cases, the bodies must be burned.

    Interesting that Jacob was thrown in the fire… I wonder if there is a connection[/quote]

    **************************

    No one buried Goodwin, and technically no one in the Dharma death pit was buried. I was under the impression that Amy wanted the bodies buried to hide them from the Others so they would not be blamed for violating the truce.[/quote]

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I was thinking the same thing…Amy was just trying to clean up the mess…

    On an unrelated note….I was thinking about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the finale, and started to wonder wether or not Juliet has alterior motives that made her change her mind about setting off the bomb…she said to Sawyer “if i never meet you, i cant lose you” or something along those lines….but at the same time, if everything gets reset, she has another chance to be with Goodwin! Could her change of mind come from her a deeper love for Goodwin than Sawyer?? Something tells me she is going to play a somewhat major role next season.[/quote]

    ________________________

    OooOOO good thought about Juliette may wanting to go back to the Goodwin…i think it’s sort of a combination of both.

    Also, why do you think that they made a trade for the dead body (Paul-Amy’s hubby/bf the other’s shot) ? They needed the body for something??!![/quote]

    the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)

  532. sector7 says:

    Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?

  533. Chang's arm says:

    @Omar Kamel –

    No what he’s (Chang’s) saying is like what I was saying THE PREMISE of this being a showdown between 2 characters which are God’s or angels or whatever is hard to take when there was not enuff given to give you chance to figure this out. Make no mistakes about it, unlike Chang’s Arm I actually enjoyed the finale and thought it was a really good episode (Not better than Flashforward Finale, but damn good), but I agree with Chang’s frustration with some of the most awesome island mysteries basically leaning toward omnipotent God power…
    =========================
    JZ said:

    thing that bothers me the most about your frustration is that you were ok with the island being the answer to everything (why they came, why someone can’t kill themselves, why someone doesn’t die after they have fatal injuries…the list goes on) but you are not ok with it being an actual person or god for that matter, because in essescene the island WAS a god…

    ===========================

    @JZ – I’m not gonna speak for him on this, but my frustration with what you are saying is that I thought the Time travel element of the show could explain some of this….Why isn’t Locke paralyzed? Because when he was sucked into the island time he was at before he broke his back…Same for Rose, she ended up in a time before she had cancer…Richard, he may or may not be someone who time traveled therefore he can’t age until he catches up with himself…Ben goes head first into any situation because he knows he can’t die because he either TT or he knows what has happened because he has experience the timeloop before…But once we find out Ben and Richard basically know nothing and a lot of there earlier interactions may even be meaningless now, you just have to put 2 and 2 together that the revelation of island god’s is probably the answer…I for one THOUGHT there MAY BE a practical explanation for all of this (via the TT phenomenon)…

    @Chang’s arm – Dude I’m with you on a lot of this, but I just don’t feel as strongly as you that everything I put into the show is wasted now…yeah I felt bitter (probably because of my own arrogance thinking I knew what was going on), but at some point I’ll get over it…I just enjoy the Time Travel aspect of the show more than what has now been revealed…

  534. wingman says:

    Don’t get mad at me for that, Just seeing how pissed people would feel if I STOLE someones body (Chang’s name) like an omnipotent island god…LMAO…

    OK guess I’m not bitter anymore…

  535. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="335313"][quote comment="335306"][quote comment="335244"]I have to agree Esau is most likely the prominent candidate for the smoke monster, Christian, Alex, Evil Lokcke… [/quote]

    Disagree that Dark Hair Guy is Smokey. If he was, he would not need Ben to tell him what Smokey said to him. He would already know that Ben has to do what he says and have no need to plan on convincing him to kill Jacob.[/quote]
    _______________________________________

    He lied about who he was, why wouldn’t he lie about what he knows?[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    I watched that scene again and I’m not convinced FLocke is lying to Ben. If MIB is Smokey then that scene is 100%, completely pointless. I’m not convinced MIB is Smokey. I believe that is what that scene is telling us.

  536. sector7 says:

    Has anyone taken a moment to consider that the opening scene with Jacob & MIB may be the first scene, chronologically, of the entire series? I wonder what all of you would have thought if the series had been played out chronologically and that was the first scene we ever saw…

  537. Kathy P says:

    I was thinking about the dead body thing and I remember that Walt was seen a couple of times by different people. Locke once in the mass Dharma grave and I can’t remember the other time but it seemed like it was raining and it was someone else that saw him. Walt is not dead so how can it be smokey/#2 guy?

  538. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336872"]Has anyone taken a moment to consider that the opening scene with Jacob & MIB may be the first scene, chronologically, of the entire series? I wonder what all of you would have thought if the series had been played out chronologically and that was the first scene we ever saw…[/quote]

    Since it appeared to be TBR on the horizon, and the 4TS was whole, I sort of thought that it WAS the first scene chronologically – except possibly the time flash where Sawyer et al saw the back of 4TS.

    : ) P

  539. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336866"]
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?[/quote]

    Actually, I think you are mistaken. Christian LEFT Frank and Sun in Ben’s house to WAIT for Locke. It was Ben who told them to look out the window to see FLocke.

    : ) P

  540. Chang's arm says:

    [quote comment="336869"]Don’t get mad at me for that, Just seeing how pissed people would feel if I STOLE someones body (Chang’s name) like an omnipotent island god…LMAO…

    OK guess I’m not bitter anymore…[/quote]
    WTF dude why’d you steal my handle?

  541. Chang's arm says:

    [quote comment="336876"][quote comment="336869"]Don’t get mad at me for that, Just seeing how pissed people would feel if I STOLE someones body (Chang’s name) like an omnipotent island god…LMAO…

    OK guess I’m not bitter anymore…[/quote]
    WTF dude why’d you steal my handle?[/quote]
    =================

    Lame attempt at humor, I apologize…Was trying to make a point about how easy things become when you can just do what you want and change bodies because you have God powers, but it didn’t work out, LOL…

  542. wingman says:

    That’ll be the last time, LMAO…Boring friday 2 work and no good shows to look forward too…

  543. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    IMO (which seems very obvious) he DID NOT take over a body. I really don’t understand why folks keep theorizing base on that. Dead is dead…and Locke’s body in the box proved that. Locke is dead and so is his body. MIB has either shape shifted or manifested or ???, but he is NOT in Lockes’ body.

  544. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment="336886"]MIB has either shape shifted or manifested or ???, but he is NOT in Lockes’ body.[/quote]

    Thanks for stating that explicitly, I’m in complete agreement. The ODD part of MIB/FLocke is –

    Well, when Locke ‘came back’ – I sat there watching, waiting to see if he’d ‘physically’ do things. And there he was; shaking hands, holding things, giving things, pushing bushes aside as he walked, no clue to him being an ‘apparition’ in the usual sense.

    But I guess we’ve seen other apparitions being physical – hmm.

    And yeah – he’s either ‘created’ a Locke body or the appearance of one (is there a difference?) – or he’s cloned one somehow, maybe by causing a split in the time-stream – maybe some kind of bifurication?

    So it’s actually possible that he has taken ‘a’ Locke’s body, if you think of it that way.

    Argh.

    I WANT A LIVE LOCKE!

  545. Omar Kamel says:

    When could they go?

    Option: 2004 – LA. Yucks.

    Option: 2007 After Ben/MIB kill Jacob.

    Option: 1977 – Seems done with. I doubt we’ll be there again. Clearly, I could be very, very wrong.

    Option: 2005/6 – Before taking Agira 316. Locke still alive?

    Option: FAR BACK IN TIME – The origins of Alpert, the crew of the Black Rock, Hanso? Dunno. If this means we’re going to be seeing Pirates of the Caribbean on Lost then somehow I doubt they’ll go that way.

    Option: The FUTURE – They could re-unite with the other group (Sun, Ben, Lapidus, etc.) a few years AFTER Jacob has been killed. MIB/FLocke would be the local leader/god. Which would then raise the question – what are his goals? If it’s a game, you keep the the guy around, otherwise, it’s game-over. Not something a gamer wants.

    Lost has always had two-time storytelling. So for a first few seasons – we had events and flashbacks. Then we (depending on how you chose to see it) saw events and flashforwards OR a shift to the future, and flashbacks. Then NOW – the characters THEMSELVES have been shifting – in time – is there a pattern here?

    For a FINAL season – it seems to make sense to re-unite the characters now that they’ve spent a season dispersed – in that case – since we’ve seen nothing to indicate that ‘time’ is about to alter for the 2007 crew, then it seems that 2007 (or later) – is the likely destination of the ’77 crew…

    If it’s about getting more ‘meta’ with the time-shifts – than what happens next? The story ‘itself’ starts shifting as Jacob & MIB both work to alter the timeline? Again – what are the stakes? We have no real answer to that.

    Maybe we see them all in 2007. And TPTB decide to go TOTALLY Philip K. Dick on us (they’ve already shown us VALIS) –

    So we’re in 2007 and they’re all re-united – on the island – but now MIB is the boss/god – a sort of Palmer Eldritch of the Island – and they seem to think everything is fine. But this ‘constructed’ reality starts to leak, and some of the characters start to conspire to take down the source of the construct, in this scenario – I can imagine something like Lapidus being a candidate for JACOB’s possession – willingly or otherwise – and he tries to work through the false reality with some of the ones who suspect it. In this scenario – I can easily imagine Sawyer and/or Sayid being the first to suspect something is up :)

    Sorry for the ramble, just thinking out loud.

  546. Omar Kamel says:

    That last scenario is actually kind of scary, because it implies that the escalation in the battle would be quite extreme – and would most likely result in the deaths of several of the main characters possibly.

    So imagine a season of war, basically, and towards the end, Kate dies. Now Jack, who had previously wanted to ‘alter time’ to the ‘less miserable’ despite the fact that it cost him knowing Kate – suddenly finds himself in a situation where he wants to alter time (to great personal expense this time) because otherwise various others – including Kate – die.

    This is kinda scary, because it comes close to ‘look, we’re giving you, the viewer two choices, they all DIE, or they sacrifice their newfound relationships/loves, etc – to save each others’ lives’ – and we’re back to the DLAS (Dreaded LA Scenario).

    More rambling, clearly. I’ll shut up for a while :)

  547. Arturo says:

    They must go back!!
    They must go back in time!!
    I need to know what is the statue and why is it all egyptian!
    They must go back!! :(

  548. Sam says:

    Click me to se a video with an unexpected part of Lost series, is amazing!!!

  549. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="336855"][quote comment="336852"][quote comment="336851"]

    ….she did time jump with the LOSTies AND she speaks Latin. *bg*

    : ) P[/quote]

    —-
    PJ:
    How the hell do you know my initials are BG?
    You’re spooking me out. Are you really Jacob? HA.

  550. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="336875"][quote comment="336866"]
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?[/quote]

    Actually, I think you are mistaken. Christian LEFT Frank and Sun in Ben’s house to WAIT for Locke. It was Ben who told them to look out the window to see FLocke.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    I watched that again and your right. However, Christian is the main reason the O6 are able to return to the island. Christian told Locke “Tell my son I said hi.”, and even visited Jack at work. Why would he do that when it seems obvious that the O6 are Jacob’s soldiers?

    And for those who feel MIB wants to take over Aaron – Christian had Aaron in his hands when Christian met Claire on the island and he let Aaron go.

    I hope those of you who are whining, crying and bitching are close to being done because I’m getting tired of hearing it.

  551. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="336933"]I watched that again and your right. However, Christian is the main reason the O6 are able to return to the island. Christian told Locke “Tell my son I said hi.”, and even visited Jack at work. Why would he do that when it seems obvious that the O6 are Jacob’s soldiers?

    And for those who feel MIB wants to take over Aaron – Christian had Aaron in his hands when Christian met Claire on the island and he let Aaron go.

    [/quote]

    I agree with you, sector7, and said as much in prior posts. I was just pointing out that the argument that JN couldn’t be Christian AND FLocke at the same time was moot in that case.

    : ) P

  552. Bobola says:

    sector7;
    “I hope those of you who are whining, crying and bitching are close to being done because I’m getting tired of hearing it.”
    ———–
    Yeah, nothing as interesting as someone complaining about others complaining…
    Physician heal thyself.

  553. Cherry-Miss.Awesome says:

    I have A Theory finallyy OK im not sure if i took this from someone but here’s How it goes…

    theres been some chatter on lostpedia.com that Jacob(look under jacob’s theory) is indeed Aaron from the future! Whoooah!!
    if this is true then it opens so many windows for future theories and a massive story line.
    1.)If Jacob is indeed Aaron then he is a descendent of the Sheppard family. { Umm hasn’t he been a literal shepherd of the island as long as we known about him}
    2.) If he is Aaron then we know now the reason Claire was “supposed to raise Aaron” which was to protect the island.
    And if Jacobs enemy knows this he may try to off Aaron aka Jacob using his loop hole tatics

    * This is the reason Charlie the protector of Claire and Aaron was instantly off’d and was convinced by ‘Desmond’.. (((or was it des because who survives a nuclear explosion and the only thing that happens to him is his clothes gets blown off ha-ha yeah right don’t believe that and he was in the jungle 4 a long time before he came back after the fail safe incident, maybe Jacobs enemy took his body))) ..it was his destiny and he basically closed the door of the looking glass and killed himself. And we have clearly seen many of Charlie’s Near Death experiences like [1.in season 1 pilot Charlie trips and is almost killed by the monster and jack saves him] [2. in season 1 Charlie almost dies by standing on a bee hive and#3 crushed by rocks in the caves][4. He is strung up and almost killed when they kidnapped Claire]—My point is at these moments Charlie is always saved by a fellow losties and by him being saved he is helping protect Claries guardianship over Aaron but once this was upset soon after Claire loses guardianship over Aaron.

    *So Desmond may very well be Jacobs’s enemy in another form as well as in Claries mother because we never see her come out of her comatose state as well as we never seen L:o:c:k:e:s Resurrection. So if Jacob’s enemy has the ability to clone the dead or maybe comatose state people. Then means he may have taken on Claire’s mother identity and kidnapped Aaron aka Jacob which altered the future resulting in Jacob’s murder, so if this is the case they may have to go back to 2004 via plane crash and help Claire raise Aaron and save Charlie and continue to save him without interference that way the future can be altered the right way. And follow Rose and Bernard’s lead by realizing that their off islands lives sucked and take on the island a sanctuary from their horrible lives live in peaces thus prove Jacob right and prove his enemy wrong.
    IDK , but let me kno what ya think
    Miss.Awesome-Cherry

  554. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.

  555. Thorney says:

    What exactly does Locke want the others to do that they need to be well rested for? It can’t be to kill Jacob as he needs to do that himself.

  556. Cherry-Miss.Awesome says:

    ::is Jacob dead because don’t we see him in the Taxi with Hurley in January 2008 giving him the guitar and telling him he is blessed an what not …..and dosen’t he “die” in 2007 unless Ben or MIB takes over his body idk???? jus a ramble let kno what ya think

  557. Ament20 says:

    I don’t have the transcript avail, but I just watch S2 finale and found it very funny when Eko tried the dynomite on the door, Locke was concerned and Desmond told Locke not to worry the blast doors could withstand an Atomic Bomb, Locke asked if Des was sure and Des said trust me..hmmm. Thought it was clever they snuck that in.

  558. steve says:

    [quote comment="337308"][quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.

  559. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="337469"][quote comment="337308"][quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Post 543.

  560. Mal says:

    [quote comment="337469"][quote comment="337308"][quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.[/quote]

    ____________

    Yep. I agree.

  561. Ament20 says:

    [quote comment="337502"][quote comment="337469"][quote comment="337308"][quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.[/quote]

    ____________

    Yep. I agree.[/quote]
    ——————————————–
    Yemi and Christian’s bodies both disappeared but Locke’s was still there. If Walt was a mimic or possession, he wasn’t even dead.

  562. Ament20 says:

    Whats with the multi-culture inhibiting the island. The Greek writing on the tapestry with the Egytian eye of Horus. The island originals speaking latin? If the DI are not originals to the island, why would they use Heiroglyphs on the Swan’s timer…how would they now.

    Has this island seen so many different time periods and civilizations that everything is influenced by visitors.

  563. JZ says:

    [quote comment="337582"][quote comment="337502"][quote comment="337469"][quote comment="337308"][quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.[/quote]

    ____________

    Yep. I agree.[/quote]
    ——————————————–
    Yemi and Christian’s bodies both disappeared but Locke’s was still there. If Walt was a mimic or possession, he wasn’t even dead.[/quote]
    ____________________

    That is so funny! I was JUST thinking about that. Why is Christian’s body missing but Locke’s body was still around? Who took his body and why? Especially if Walt wasn’t just a figment of Locke’s imagination when he was laying in that dharma grave…how the heck is that supposed to apply?

  564. steve says:

    Rambling Ideas to follow.
    (Posted this on another blog as well – any ideas?)

    The game that is being played out by Jacob and Man # 2 appears to have both sides cheating. Jacob touches people thus influencing their behavior and then he then brings them to the island to supposedly react to what the island has to give, and make progress away from what man # 2 described. Man # 2 says that it always ends the same. “They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt.” Then we are to believe that Man # 2 takes the form of John Locke to fight and destroy Jacob and corrupt the Others in order to make his point. How many times has this scenario played out, ending in Jacobs death. How many times has Man # 2 thwarted the will of man and bent the outcome to always end the same way?

    While I observed these things, I hesitate to believe that this all there is to the conflict. If this is all there is, that means that our losties are not significant any more then then crew of the Black Rock, perhaps a crew from some Greek vessel, and maybe a band of Egyptians that all played this game before.

    The thing that has changed is that our losties have been able to travel in time. This maybe Jacobs Ace in the hole.

    Remember that we still don’t know who Juliet shot in the second outrigger, and when in time that event occurred. We do know that right after this, they foom and it is now raining.

    I think that significant changes may occur when the losties foomed in time and it was raining.

    I am starting to believe that WHH has been a constant for the island up until now, or then as the case may be. Man #2 is acting within this construct, But now Jacob knows that WHH is no longer a constant. Our losties are now Jacob’s fly in the ointment, and they are coming.

  565. Mal says:

    [quote comment="337626"][quote comment="337582"][quote comment="337502"][quote comment="337469"][quote comment="337308"][quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.[/quote]

    ____________

    Yep. I agree.[/quote]
    ——————————————–
    Yemi and Christian’s bodies both disappeared but Locke’s was still there. If Walt was a mimic or possession, he wasn’t even dead.[/quote]
    ____________________

    That is so funny! I was JUST thinking about that. Why is Christian’s body missing but Locke’s body was still around? Who took his body and why? Especially if Walt wasn’t just a figment of Locke’s imagination when he was laying in that dharma grave…how the heck is that supposed to apply?[/quote]

    ____

    I was wondering about this too… I think that Christian (via smoke monster) had time and privacy to bury/ dispose of the body. Locke was surrounded by others at the time of the crash… therefore he did not have the time. That’s the best explanation I could come up with.

  566. JZ says:

    [quote comment="337642"][quote comment="337626"][quote comment="337582"][quote comment="337502"][quote comment="337469"][quote comment="337308"][quote comment="336866"]Pauric wrote: the reason that they have to bury the dead is because of the guy at the finale can take the form of bodies that havent been buried…ie. horace when he was building the cabin when talking to locke, locke of course, christian shepard, ben’s daughter (on a note warned ben not to kill locke again because that locke was that guy who wants to kill jacob thus his plan would have been ruined)[/quote]

    ________________________________________
    When Sun and Frank were in Ben’s house talking to Christian, Fake Locke was outside waving at them. How can MIB be in Christian’s and Locke’s body at the same time?

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.[/quote]

    ____________

    Yep. I agree.[/quote]
    ——————————————–
    Yemi and Christian’s bodies both disappeared but Locke’s was still there. If Walt was a mimic or possession, he wasn’t even dead.[/quote]
    ____________________

    That is so funny! I was JUST thinking about that. Why is Christian’s body missing but Locke’s body was still around? Who took his body and why? Especially if Walt wasn’t just a figment of Locke’s imagination when he was laying in that dharma grave…how the heck is that supposed to apply?[/quote]

    ____

    I was wondering about this too… I think that Christian (via smoke monster) had time and privacy to bury/ dispose of the body. Locke was surrounded by others at the time of the crash… therefore he did not have the time. That’s the best explanation I could come up with.[/quote]

    __________________________

    Ok so you think Christian buried himself (could be possible since we see TWO locke’s)…Ugghh that sux lol sorry…has to be a better explanation…i’ll have to watch that episode again…(was that “316”)

    Just thought of something…Locke’s was wearing like a black cape (blanket maybe?)when the others had him by the bonfire….was there right in front of us all along! hahahaha

  567. Mal says:

    Has anyone been able to answer my question: If MIB took over Locke’s body, how is there a dead Locke body in the box?[/quote]
    ************
    I asked that same question earlier but did not see any responses.[/quote]

    ************************************

    My best guess at this point is that the MIB or whoever it is, does not possess the actual body, by mimics the appearance and possesses the consciousness of the deceased or unconscious.[/quote]

    ____________

    Yep. I agree.[/quote]
    ——————————————–
    Yemi and Christian’s bodies both disappeared but Locke’s was still there. If Walt was a mimic or possession, he wasn’t even dead.[/quote]
    ____________________

    That is so funny! I was JUST thinking about that. Why is Christian’s body missing but Locke’s body was still around? Who took his body and why? Especially if Walt wasn’t just a figment of Locke’s imagination when he was laying in that dharma grave…how the heck is that supposed to apply?[/quote]

    ____

    I was wondering about this too… I think that Christian (via smoke monster) had time and privacy to bury/ dispose of the body. Locke was surrounded by others at the time of the crash… therefore he did not have the time. That’s the best explanation I could come up with.[/quote]

    __________________________

    Ok so you think Christian buried himself (could be possible since we see TWO locke’s)…Ugghh that sux lol sorry…has to be a better explanation…i’ll have to watch that episode again…(was that “316”)

    Just thought of something…Locke’s was wearing like a black cape (blanket maybe?)when the others had him by the bonfire….was there right in front of us all along! hahahaha[/quote]

    ______

    Yeah, definitely… bot only that, but when he was with Sun, Ben, and the Others, he was back in his old walkabout garb… khaki pants, stained white tanktop… I was wondering about that, but then thought that maybe he relocated the camp and all of the old clothing he had on the Island the first time… but that’s not possible. We should have known!!

  568. Andrew says:

    Sorry for the long post but I think I’m on to something. The Smoke monster is Locke (v2.0). The smoke monster is also every apparition of a dead person or of someone that wasn’t on the island (like Walt). Notice how many times the smoke monster appears in close proximity with an appartition but never at the same time (i.e. Locke leaves Ben to be judged –> the smoke monster appears –> Ben’s dead daughter is there telling Ben to do everything Locke says (i.e. itself)). The smoke monster lived in Jacob’s Cabin (which is why we see Christian there sometimes). Ashes are left when it goes from smoke form to human form (which is why there was a circle of ashes around the cabin except for one spot that Alana noticed, presumably where the newly formed human form is standing after the transformation). The smoke monster is Jacob’s enemy (the guy in the beginning of the incident who wants to kill Jacob, hence all the references by the apparitions (i.e. Alex tells Ben to follow Locke, Christian says to the real Locke a few seasons back that he speaks on Jacob’s behalf). All of these are deceits in the Smoke Monsters plan to kill Jacob. The smoke monster killed people or let them live based on whether they could be used the ends or means to an end of killing Jacob (i.e. Ben, Locke vs. Mr. Ecko, the commandos). The Smoke Monster Revealed (I think).

  569. Highlander says:

    So Richard says he watched them all die (to Locke in 2007) about the Losties in 1977:

    SUN: These people… Jack Shephard, Kate Austen, Hugo Reyes. They were here with my husband–Jin Kwon. Were you here? Do you remember them? A–any of them?

    RICHARD: Yes, I was here 30 years ago. And I do. I remember these people. I remember meeting them very clearly, because… I watched them all die.

    BUT Didn’t Richard see some of those Losties in 2004??? Why didn’t he mention that??? We know he saw Kate:

    BEN: Thank you for coming, Richard.

    RICHARD: My pleasure.

    [Ben reaches his bound hands toward Kate, who has picked up Keamy's knife that Sayid dropped in the fight.]

    BEN: Could you cut me free, Kate?

    [Kate cuts the plastic bindings off of Ben's hands.]

    BEN: What was the arrangement?

    RICHARD: They, uh, help us free you, and we let ‘em off the island.

    BEN: Fair enough. The helicopter is yours. You and Sayid have a safe journey back.

    KATE: So we can go? Off the island? That’s it?

    BEN: That’s it.

  570. the LOST thinker says:

    I think that Christian’s body was lost in the water when the tail crashed because it was in the back of the plane. also, i think that the weird dude who wanted to kill Jakob was either his father or some reincarnation of a close enemy, because he is certainly not ageless like Jakob and Richard. I think that Richard is a close friend of Jakob no wonder he is ageless. Also Ben has issues about mentallity and heart. Why would the smoke Alex say to follow John Locke when he is dead? Is the monster confused from the weird guy? I also think that Juliet might have set off the bomb that will send the people back, but it will kill the guy who wanted to kill Jakob and Ben, and maybe all of the others. I wonder how Jakob knew Alana? Do u think that the people who stopped Miles before he went on Widmores ship purposely got onto the plane to stop the guy from killing Jakob? Or do u think that he is there to fight in the war? I think that the people (the 6 and the other main characters) will fight in the war and Sawyer, Kate, and Sun will die instead of Jin. Syaid will die, and Ben will die ( i hope) Thanks for listening respond soon.

  571. the LOST thinker says:

    from what u said about Richard, he probably thinks that the bomb killed all of them.

  572. the LOST thinker says:

    Locke is the most impo charcter. From all the other episodes he is special which means he will be the premise and maybe the demise of the islanders. He will be the end of the island. Also who is the WHH?

  573. Thorney says:

    WHH = Whatever Happened, Happened.

  574. Ament20 says:

    Thought this was pretty funny find when Richard met Juliet at the airport to take to the island.

    S2 “One of Us”

    RICHARD: Thank you for letting us borrow your sister for a few months.

    RACHEL: Just promise me you’ll bring her back in one piece.

    RICHARD: [Laughs] Well, we’ll do our best. Er, so listen, its, er, a security thing. We have to take you in the rest of the way, so, whenever you’re ready we’ll be waiting, right over here but please do take your time. Pleasure to meet you.

    RACHEL: Thanks.

    RICHARD: Thank you.
    _______________________________________________
    one piece….lol

  575. Ament20 says:

    [quote comment="337682"]So Richard says he watched them all die (to Locke in 2007) about the Losties in 1977:

    SUN: These people… Jack Shephard, Kate Austen, Hugo Reyes. They were here with my husband–Jin Kwon. Were you here? Do you remember them? A–any of them?

    RICHARD: Yes, I was here 30 years ago. And I do. I remember these people. I remember meeting them very clearly, because… I watched them all die.

    BUT Didn’t Richard see some of those Losties in 2004??? Why didn’t he mention that??? We know he saw Kate:

    BEN: Thank you for coming, Richard.

    RICHARD: My pleasure.

    [Ben reaches his bound hands toward Kate, who has picked up Keamy's knife that Sayid dropped in the fight.]

    BEN: Could you cut me free, Kate?

    [Kate cuts the plastic bindings off of Ben's hands.]

    BEN: What was the arrangement?

    RICHARD: They, uh, help us free you, and we let ‘em off the island.

    BEN: Fair enough. The helicopter is yours. You and Sayid have a safe journey back.

    KATE: So we can go? Off the island? That’s it?

    BEN: That’s it.[/quote]
    _______________________________________________
    The fact that Richard doesn’t mention the 2004 kate to sun may mean that changed, or an oversight by the writers. good catch imo

  576. Highlander says:

    I watched S1.5 “White Rabbit” yesterday; it was the episode where young Jack gets in a fight. I found it interesting that after the fight Christian tells Jack “Don’t choose, Jack, don’t decide.” Jacob, however, is telling everyone that they have a choice. Could Christian be on the other side?

  577. JZ says:

    [quote comment="337807"] … post deleted …[/quote]

    _____________________

    as many speculated…is this your speculation as well or should this be a spoiler alert?

  578. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="337673"]Sorry for the long post but I think I’m on to something. The Smoke monster is Locke (v2.0). The smoke monster is also every apparition of a dead person or of someone that wasn’t on the island (like Walt). Notice how many times the smoke monster appears in close proximity with an appartition but never at the same time (i.e. Locke leaves Ben to be judged –> the smoke monster appears –> Ben’s dead daughter is there telling Ben to do everything Locke says (i.e. itself)). The smoke monster lived in Jacob’s Cabin (which is why we see Christian there sometimes). Ashes are left when it goes from smoke form to human form (which is why there was a circle of ashes around the cabin except for one spot that Alana noticed, presumably where the newly formed human form is standing after the transformation). The smoke monster is Jacob’s enemy (the guy in the beginning of the incident who wants to kill Jacob, hence all the references by the apparitions (i.e. Alex tells Ben to follow Locke, Christian says to the real Locke a few seasons back that he speaks on Jacob’s behalf). All of these are deceits in the Smoke Monsters plan to kill Jacob. The smoke monster killed people or let them live based on whether they could be used the ends or means to an end of killing Jacob (i.e. Ben, Locke vs. Mr. Ecko, the commandos). The Smoke Monster Revealed (I think).[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I think you’re trying to force things into fitting together. Have you read my previous posts that discredit the smoke monster being the MIB (Locke 2.0)? See Comment 163 and 535.

  579. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="337911"][quote comment="337807"]Jacob is AARON![/quote]

    _____________________

    as many speculated…is this your speculation as well or should this be a spoiler alert?[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Jacob is Aaron is a weak take. Might as well say Smoke Monster is Aaron. Or SM is everyone that isn’t an Other or a lostie — boy, that’s such a compelling theory.

  580. sector7 says:

    Now it’s time for a little theory on “God loves you as He loved Jacob”.

    I think this means Jacob is an angel that fell out of grace with God. Jacob plays out his existence on the island to prove his point about man, probably to make amends with God, so Jacob can return to heaven. The island is an otherworldly place created by Jacob and/or God, designed to serve as a place for Jacob’s penance. The MIB simply wants to kill Jacob. MIB is most likely an agent of Satan who is assigned to kill Jacob while he is bound to the earthly realm. The smoke monster is likely an entity created by God, Jacob, or Satan, that is designed to protect the interest of it’s creator and eventually becomes a player in the Jacob/MIB “game”. It’s unknown which side SM is on, or which side is manipulating it.

  581. Miraks says:

    Having thought about it all for a while, I have now decided that MIB is the good guy and Jacob is the bad guy. (I know some people have already alluded to this- not trying to steal anyone’a ideas)
    In the beginning:
    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Mind if I join you?

    BLOND MAN: [Shaking his head] Please. Want some fish?

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Thank you. I just ate.

    [The gray-haired man sits down not far away.]

    BLOND MAN: I take it you’re here ’cause of the ship.

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I am. How did they find the Island?

    BLOND MAN: You’ll have to ask ‘em when they get here.

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I don’t have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren’t you?

    BLOND MAN: You are wrong.

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

    BLOND MAN: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

    What if Jacob is the one that corrupts? Trying to prove that man is weak, and can be led astray?

    Let’s take Jacob’s interactions with our Losties:
    Kate- Jacob does not interfere and Kate’s get in trouble for stealing. Goes home, gets her butt whoped, stays out of trouble from that point on.
    Sawyer- does not write his letter, which became an obsession (not a healhty one I might say).
    Sayid- pulls Nadia back before car hits her/ they bith cross the street before car comes hurling by
    Hurley- does not go back to island. Since Hurley is the only “pure” and “uncorrupted” one, bringing him back to the island and corrupting him could be a way for (evil) Jacob to prove his point.
    Jack- here Jacob actually says that sometimes all that needed is a “little push”. Maybe a hint that the “push” Jacob gives is NOT the one they need/ want (see the “push” he gave to Sawyer to write his letter)

    Anyway, I got more, but no time to write right now. Just thought I’d put this out there. Maybe MIB IS the good guy, and Jacob is the one causing all the trouble.
    Just one more thought, black (as MIB was dressed) in ancient Egypt was actually symbolic of fertility and even life! The association with life and fertility was due to the abundance provided by the dark, black silt of the annually flooding Nile.

  582. Miss.Awesome-cherry says:

    I have A Theory finallyy OK im not sure if i took this from someone but here’s How it goes…

    theres been some chatter on lostpedia.com that Jacob(look under jacob’s theory) is indeed Aaron from the future! Whoooah!!
    if this is true then it opens so many windows for future theories and a massive story line.
    1.)If Jacob is indeed Aaron then he is a descendent of the Sheppard family. { Umm hasn’t he been a literal shepherd of the island as long as we known about him}
    2.) If he is Aaron then we know now the reason Claire was “supposed to raise Aaron” which was to protect the island.
    And if Jacobs enemy knows this he may try to off Aaron aka Jacob using his loop hole tatics

    * This is the reason Charlie the protector of Claire and Aaron was instantly off’d and was convinced by ‘Desmond’.. (((or was it des because who survives a nuclear explosion and the only thing that happens to him is his clothes gets blown off ha-ha yeah right don’t believe that and he was in the jungle 4 a long time before he came back after the fail safe incident, maybe Jacobs enemy took his body))) ..it was his destiny and he basically closed the door of the looking glass and killed himself. And we have clearly seen many of Charlie’s Near Death experiences like [1.in season 1 pilot Charlie trips and is almost killed by the monster and jack saves him] [2. in season 1 Charlie almost dies by standing on a bee hive and#3 crushed by rocks in the caves][4. He is strung up and almost killed when they kidnapped Claire]—My point is at these moments Charlie is always saved by a fellow losties and by him being saved he is helping protect Claries guardianship over Aaron but once this was upset soon after Claire loses guardianship over Aaron.

    *So Desmond may very well be Jacobs’s enemy in another form as well as in Claries mother because we never see her come out of her comatose state as well as we never seen L:o:c:k:e:s Resurrection. So if Jacob’s enemy has the ability to clone the dead or maybe comatose state people. Then means he may have taken on Claire’s mother identity and kidnapped Aaron aka Jacob which altered the future resulting in Jacob’s murder, so if this is the case they may have to go back to 2004 via plane crash and help Claire raise Aaron and save Charlie and continue to save him without interference that way the future can be altered the right way. And follow Rose and Bernard’s lead by realizing that their off islands lives sucked and take on the island a sanctuary from their horrible lives live in peaces thus prove Jacob right and prove his enemy wrong.
    IDK , but let me kno what ya think
    Miss.Awesome-Cherry

  583. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="337943"]Having thought about it all for a while, I have now decided that MIB is the good guy and Jacob is the bad guy. (I know some people have already alluded to this- not trying to steal anyone’a ideas)
    In the beginning:
    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Mind if I join you?

    BLOND MAN: [Shaking his head] Please. Want some fish?

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Thank you. I just ate.

    [The gray-haired man sits down not far away.]

    BLOND MAN: I take it you’re here ’cause of the ship.

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I am. How did they find the Island?

    BLOND MAN: You’ll have to ask ‘em when they get here.

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I don’t have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren’t you?

    BLOND MAN: You are wrong.

    GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

    BLOND MAN: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

    What if Jacob is the one that corrupts? Trying to prove that man is weak, and can be led astray?

    Let’s take Jacob’s interactions with our Losties:
    Kate- Jacob does not interfere and Kate’s get in trouble for stealing. Goes home, gets her butt whoped, stays out of trouble from that point on.
    Sawyer- does not write his letter, which became an obsession (not a healhty one I might say).
    Sayid- pulls Nadia back before car hits her/ they bith cross the street before car comes hurling by
    Hurley- does not go back to island. Since Hurley is the only “pure” and “uncorrupted” one, bringing him back to the island and corrupting him could be a way for (evil) Jacob to prove his point.
    Jack- here Jacob actually says that sometimes all that needed is a “little push”. Maybe a hint that the “push” Jacob gives is NOT the one they need/ want (see the “push” he gave to Sawyer to write his letter)

    Anyway, I got more, but no time to write right now. Just thought I’d put this out there. Maybe MIB IS the good guy, and Jacob is the one causing all the trouble.
    Just one more thought, black (as MIB was dressed) in ancient Egypt was actually symbolic of fertility and even life! The association with life and fertility was due to the abundance provided by the dark, black silt of the annually flooding Nile.[/quote]
    *******************
    I have also been toying with the idea that they are leading us to believe that Jacob is good, and MIB is bad and they are going to have a twist and it will be the other way around…in some instances doesn’t it seem that Miles and Widmore and others should be on MIB side? It appears that Llana and Bram are on Jacobs side and when they grabbed Miles they told him he was on the wrong side…Widmores side (i would guess). Crazy things to come that is for sure!
    -miss

  584. Ament20 says:

    This is from S3E1 with what happened to Juliet in “The Incident” and Faraday explaining “free will” in “The Variable” thought this might of been an easter egg.

    ———————————————–

    ADAM: It’s science-fiction — now I know why Ben isn’t here.

    JULIET: Excuse me?

    ADAM: I know the host picks the book; but seriously, Julie, he wouldn’t read this in the damn bathroom.

    JULIET: Well, Adam, I am the host and I do pick the book. And this is my favorite book. So I am absolutely thrilled that you can’t stand it. Silly me for sinking so low as to select something that Ben wouldn’t like. Here I am thinking that free will still actually exists on…

    [Suddenly there is violent shaking like an earthquake. Everyone gets up.]
    _______________________________________________
    As soon as she talks about “free will” the earthquake occurs. lol

  585. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="338031"]As soon as she talks about “free will” the earthquake occurs. lol[/quote]

    Except that it isn’t an earthquake, it is the island reacting to the build up of energy because Desmond was too busy killing Inman to push the button. So “earthquake” was free will in action.

    : ) P

  586. wingman says:

    [quote comment="337897"]I watched S1.5 “White Rabbit” yesterday; it was the episode where young Jack gets in a fight. I found it interesting that after the fight Christian tells Jack “Don’t choose, Jack, don’t decide.” Jacob, however, is telling everyone that they have a choice. Could Christian be on the other side?[/quote]
    =================================
    Christian was//is the smoke monster///shape-shifter//grave-robber thing (Island God) that’s against Jacob…So no REAL Christian isn’t against Jacob…That’s why Keamy and his team (amongst others in this show) had to “bury the bodies” so game-cheat can’t possess them….That’s why Fake Christian refused to help Locke up after he fell and broke his leg down the well….Because it has to be free-will…This episode basically explains all the omnipresence of Christian (and so many other characters) it’s not funny…So once again, no there is no other side for Christian, unless that side has lots of halos…

    Watched this ep a few times more just trying to shake the feeling of being cheated all these years, and I just can’t do it…It’s times like this I wish I wasn’t such an analytical bastard…

  587. Miss.Awesome-cherry says:

    I was watching when they first opened the hatch which was in season two well my point is i think desmond is somewhat emboding the devil on the island for example before we meet desmond on the island we see him and Jack trying to run all the stairs in the stadium and when they start talking Desmond says:DESMOND: For running like the devil’s chasing you. My excuse – I’m training
    which may be a pun then Jack goes on to talk to desmond about the promise that he made Sarah his ex-wife that hee could fix her and then they rambeled on about miracles and what have you the he said something that grabed my attention DESMOND: Oh, and you don’t believe in miracles? [Jack chuckles and shakes his head.] Right. Well then, I’m going to give you some advice anyway. You have to lift it up. Jacks says what up? then he says the ankel referring to the spring that jack got in his ankel running up the stairs but what if it was another pun About the hatch door and living beneath the ground Umm im thinking devil idk but i think desmond is bad he might not be the actual devil on the show but this evidence may point him out to be a bad or vilianous character also another aspect that tickeled my fancy was when Desmond asked Locke the question DESMOND: Are you — are you him?

    LOCKE: Yes. Yes I am.

    DESMOND: I can’t believe it. You’re finally here.

    LOCKE: Well, here I am.

    DESMOND: Who’s she.

    LOCKE: She’s with me.

    DESMOND: What did one snowman say to the other snowman?
    umm im thinking its supposed to be answered in latin like idk but m point is i thnk “John Locke” remember desmond somehow and des was bad a long time ago but des for got about him
    let me kno what u thnk :)

  588. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="338044"][quote comment="337897"]I watched S1.5 “White Rabbit” yesterday; it was the episode where young Jack gets in a fight. I found it interesting that after the fight Christian tells Jack “Don’t choose, Jack, don’t decide.” Jacob, however, is telling everyone that they have a choice. Could Christian be on the other side?[/quote]
    =================================
    Christian was//is the smoke monster///shape-shifter//grave-robber thing (Island God) that’s against Jacob…So no REAL Christian isn’t against Jacob…That’s why Keamy and his team (amongst others in this show) had to “bury the bodies” so game-cheat can’t possess them….That’s why Fake Christian refused to help Locke up after he fell and broke his leg down the well….Because it has to be free-will…This episode basically explains all the omnipresence of Christian (and so many other characters) it’s not funny…So once again, no there is no other side for Christian, unless that side has lots of halos…

    Watched this ep a few times more just trying to shake the feeling of being cheated all these years, and I just can’t do it…It’s times like this I wish I wasn’t such an analytical bastard…[/quote]
    ______________________________

    You have not convinced me that Christian is the smoke monster. Nor that MIB is the smoke monster. Please state your evidence.

  589. wingman says:

    [quote comment="338055"][quote comment="338044"][quote comment="337897"]I watched S1.5 “White Rabbit” yesterday; it was the episode where young Jack gets in a fight. I found it interesting that after the fight Christian tells Jack “Don’t choose, Jack, don’t decide.” Jacob, however, is telling everyone that they have a choice. Could Christian be on the other side?[/quote]
    =================================
    Christian was//is the smoke monster///shape-shifter//grave-robber thing (Island God) that’s against Jacob…So no REAL Christian isn’t against Jacob…That’s why Keamy and his team (amongst others in this show) had to “bury the bodies” so game-cheat can’t possess them….That’s why Fake Christian refused to help Locke up after he fell and broke his leg down the well….Because it has to be free-will…This episode basically explains all the omnipresence of Christian (and so many other characters) it’s not funny…So once again, no there is no other side for Christian, unless that side has lots of halos…

    Watched this ep a few times more just trying to shake the feeling of being cheated all these years, and I just can’t do it…It’s times like this I wish I wasn’t such an analytical bastard…[/quote]
    ______________________________

    You have not convinced me that Christian is the smoke monster. Nor that MIB is the smoke monster. Please state your evidence.[/quote]

    ==========================\

    Christian may not be the smoke monster but HE IS whatever the hell Anti-Jacob is or apart of his demigod…The entire premise of the game between our Island arcade players is that “free will” must be exercised by the person or people they “push” into any given direction…The episode shows us the premise of this battle by showing Jacob back in time “fingering” or summoning people (He appears to resurrect Locke)…So how is our other player playing the game…Well according to him he had to find a “loophole” in order to ultimately play and win the game…He had to take the shape and or body and or appearance of John Locke to do this, the same man who came back to the island as a proxy for Christian Shepperd (In which both Fake Christian and Fake Locke [via Richard] TOLD LOCKE and reinforced the idea that he had to die)…

    Now to Ben, whose entire story in this show is that of a meaningless pawn and now we see why…He was just a tool that needed to be sharpened by MIB…That’s why he didn’t remember Sayid killing him because Temple-powered smokey (aka MIB or MIB’s pet or helper) needed that information to be absent or Ben would have simply thought something was amiss when he later gets tortured by Sayid (That’s why Darlton covered their butts with the Hurley-Miles fansite back and forth)…The relationship of Ben and Sayid is what is needed to ultimately get Ben back to the island so he can fulfill his destiny as MIB’s tool…

    Fake Alex also serves as sharpening the tool, because why would a person we eventually find out is a Fake Locke take Ben to a hidden smoke-monster part of the underground temple if he//it didn’t have a relation to smokey??? Eh??

    Finally we have fake Locke telling Jacob how much he had to go through (body snatching-switching and sharpening Ben as a tool) to get to the point where he could exercise the understanding of his loophole, but again Ben has to “choose” to kill Jacob much as Christian couldn’t help Locke @ the FDW….Now I don’t know if he is exactly smokey or that he can control smokey or what, but I think it’s clear they are related…perhaps the fact that smokey can break into 3 individual pieces makes it easier for “apparitions” to be at multiple places at the same time, not sure about that, but positive MIB is responsible for the Christian character…

    Now I guess if you’re still not convinced a broken smoke detector in Jack’s hospital lobby before seeing Christian sitting there means nothing to you either…What seemed like misdirection now appears to be a straight highway… The fact that it//he can go off-island like the freighter or Jack’s office bums me out to no end …Not that I loved explaining that but what more do you want to connect these dots?

  590. Andrew says:

    [quote comment="337911"][quote comment="337807"] .. post deleted ..[/quote]

    _____________________

    as many speculated…is this your speculation as well or should this be a spoiler alert?[/quote]

    I will only say this much. “Jacob is Aaron” is not a theory… but there’s more to the meaning than face value.

  591. Arturo says:

    I hope they don’t do shape-shiffter thing for LOST… it is such a cheezy, cheap, overused effect…… please don’t just end the movie by showing that smoke monster is a shape shiffter…. its so bad! I hope there is a deeper story than just shift and thats it…

  592. wingman says:

    Arturo welcome to my hell…

  593. sector7 says:

    All due respect wingman, I don’t think you’ve cracked the code just yet.

    I don’t recall Christian telling Locke he had to die. I do recall Christian telling Locke “say hi to my son”. I recall Christian allowing Michael to save Des and Jin before letting him die. I recall Christian holding Aaron, letting Aaron stay behind and convincing Claire to go with him. Christian has done more good things than bad. Appearing to Jack at the hospital pushes Jack to return. Jack as touched by Jacob. Why would MIB want Jacob’s chosen people to return? He wouldn’t, IMO.

    UnLocke did not convince Ben to go the SM, Ben wanted to go on his own to be judged.

    Your theory does not explain who is possessing the dead bodies of Libby, or Ana-Lucia, or Eko (playing chess with Hurley), or Charlie.

  594. sector7 says:

    Furthermore, evidence supports the SM having it’s own agenda seperate from UnLocke.

    Christian wants to help Sun reunite with Jin. Christian does not want Widmore to come back to the island. There is no evidence to support Christian being in league with MIB.

  595. Duke says:

    Abc.com reveals staute as Tawaret or somesuch spelling.

  596. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="338062"]Abc.com reveals staute as Tawaret or somesuch spelling.[/quote]

    _____________________________
    Not to brag, I give credit when it’s due, but I called this on the LaFluer post, comment 532.

  597. wingman says:

    @sector 7 –
    [quote]UnLocke did not convince Ben to go the SM, Ben wanted to go on his own to be judged.[/quote]

    Ben told every lie in the book because he was scared to death of seeing a living Locke…For script expediency above all else he mentioned his lie about being judged by the monster…Fake Locke pounced on that like Jacob on a rock-fried fish and went one step further by making him feel more guilty over his daughters death….He then proceeded to take Ben to a part of the temple (The part we see the smoke monster hide in when he took Danielle’s friend)..To add to that, he knew exactly where the monster could be found when we as an audience had been shown that smokey could appear when Ben summons it, but not this time, it’s Fake Locke who emerges and sets Ben up for the daughter clone……

    [quote]I don’t recall Christian telling Locke he had to die. I do recall Christian telling Locke “say hi to my son”. I recall Christian allowing Michael to save Des and Jin before letting him die. I recall Christian holding Aaron, letting Aaron stay behind and convincing Claire to go with him. Christian has done more good things than bad. Appearing to Jack at the hospital pushes Jack to return. Jack as touched by Jacob. Why would MIB want Jacob’s chosen people to return? He wouldn’t, IMO[/quote]

    Christian REINFORCED the idea of Locke having to die, he furthermore could not help Locke as Locke had to turn the FDW himself…that is consistent with Fake Locke not being able to help Ben kill Jacob…Additionally Christian trying to makeJack fall off a cliff in “white rabbit” might be considered bad, but as we all know there are more than a handful of writing inconsistencies in lost…Nevertheless I still believe Christian, smokey, MIB are connected…..I’ll stand by my previous post because it explains it perfectly about the connection between Dead Locke and dead Christian falling on the island in coffins only to be used by the MIB…

    [quote]Your theory does not explain who is possessing the dead bodies of Libby, or Ana-Lucia, or Eko (playing chess with Hurley), or Charlie.[/quote]

    My theory was about Christian right? I think I also said I’M NOT SURE if the fact that smokey breaking in 3 pieces can explain multiple apparitions at multiple times, but it is clear (At least to me) that both Jacob and anti-Jacob can use there Chris Angel powers off island…Honestly though, believe what you will, I’m all good on this and the fact that I don’t like it one bit…

  598. Ament20 says:

    Smoke Monster – Shape Shifting

    A lot of people feel that the island’s smoke monster may in fact shape shift to people that were at one time on the island. I for one don’t belive in this theory but it’s just an opinion. For a few quick examples in “Meet Kevin Johnson” Michael sees Libby as a nurse off island. How can that be the smoke monster? Hurley seeing Charlie, Ana-Lucia, and Eko off island are a few more coincidentally buried.

    The apparitions that our losties are seeing are no doubt inspired by the island in fact they are the most influencial people appearing to that person. Such as the black horse that kate seen as her influence I don’t believe this can be disproved as an apparition with Sawyer seeing it because Sayid seen Walt with Shannon and as far as we know he’s not dead,buried,or even on the island. Point being the apparitions are guides wether good or bad thats yet to be seen.

    The Smoke Monster IMO is the judge,jury,and executioner of the island making it a defense to who stays and who has to go. Being that it’s home is in The Temple makes that place what Ben called the “sanctuary” and not just anyone can be in the sanctuary was revealed when Karl made a remark to Ben after he was captured with Locke and Sawyer. We seen how it read into Ben and snapping pictures of Ben’s moments. I’m thinking it’s judging his character then decides to let him live or die. Why Un-Locke didn’t go down…he would of been judged as MIB (again opinion about unlocke being MIB) and not as Locke, that expalins why he didn’t go down there. Jacob, MIB, and Smoke Monster are 3 seperate entities on the island…there could be more we don’t know. The apparitions are guides to either support “free will” or suppress it who the puppet master is is anyone’s guess.

  599. newbie says:

    I’m going through LOST withdrawals glad I found this site. Since I started watching Lost last year I have been HOOKED.
    My theory is everyone from the Oceanic flight are descendants of the island or has a special connection to someone who has been on the island.
    Just saw a movie with Boone in it and he was a younger version of Richard. I can’t remember Boone’s eyes in Lost but the movie he starred in he had the eyeliner effect like Richard.
    On another site I also mentioned all the blondes and their resemblance to each other, Juliette, Claire & her mom, Shannon, Kate’s mom, Goodwin’s wife, Jack’s ex and there was even a love interest for Ben that resembled the other blondes. Can anyone else see where I’m going?
    Does anyone remember when Kate’s mom came to the conference room when she was on trial and she seemed to question Kate about Aaron like she knew Kate was not able to have kids? I did go back and view all the other episodes but thought I may have missed something that could have indicated she was unable to have kids. Also when Juliette was sent with Jack to spy on the women, Ben left a recorder asking if anyone other than Sun was pregnant, he specifically asked about Kate. That kind of put a stamp on my theory of them being descendants and the island just wanted them back for some reason.
    ***Also I don’t think it is Rose & Bernard as Adam & Eve. I think it is Horace and Amy(I think that is his wife’s name). That would explain how Ethan (Horace & Amy’s son) ended up with the Richard & the Others when he clearly was born in the Dharma Int.

  600. slugdoc says:

    I don’t know if this was said or just hinted at – if it was said, kudos to the OP.

    Anyway:

    (Dead) Christian in Jack’s hospital post-2004: It wasn’t a broken smoke detector that alerted Jack to Dad’s presence, was it? It was a smoke detector going off for now apparent reason.
    Except there was a reason! Smoke! Smokie! When Cristian showed up, AS SMOKIE, he set off the SMOKE DETECTOR!
    A HA!

    ok. Pretty cool, if it’s true.

    Slug

  601. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="338213"](Dead) Christian in Jack’s hospital post-2004: It wasn’t a broken smoke detector that alerted Jack to Dad’s presence, was it? It was a smoke detector going off for now apparent reason.
    Except there was a reason! Smoke! Smokie! When Cristian showed up, AS SMOKIE, he set off the SMOKE DETECTOR![/quote]

    I don’t necessarily subscribe to the smoke monster = Christian theory, but it would be like D&C to offer that up for us on a smoke filled platter. Definitely an interesting connection, Slugdoc, and not one I have read before.

    : ) P

  602. steve says:

    interesting idea about the smokr detector. I am thinking the smoke detector was experiencing battery drain, but most building codes require the smoke detector to be hardwired with a battery backup. there is a theory that ghosts can drain energy sources in order to manifest, but that is just a thoery. I don’t think smokie set it off. Christian appeared at a timr that was convienient for Jack.

  603. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="338321"]interesting idea about the smokr detector. I am thinking the smoke detector was experiencing battery drain, but most building codes require the smoke detector to be hardwired with a battery backup. there is a theory that ghosts can drain energy sources in order to manifest, but that is just a thoery. I don’t think smokie set it off. Christian appeared at a timr that was convienient for Jack.[/quote]

    Well the smoke detector sounded like the Beep Beep that started when the countdown timer in the Swan got low. I thought that was the only thing that was relevant the first time I saw it.

    I just think the connection between it being a SMOKE detector and Christian being there is good. Even if it isn’t true, it still screams of D&C and an easter egg!

    : ) P

  604. Ament20 says:

    whoa….

    I would like for other people to take a look at the scene where Jacob talks to Hurley right before he exits the cab…one moment in the background you clearly see the city…but at the very next cut its a beach scene with a palm tree waving in the background. Anyone else catch this?

  605. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="338336"]I would like for other people to take a look at the scene where Jacob talks to Hurley right before he exits the cab…one moment in the background you clearly see the city…but at the very next cut its a beach scene with a palm tree waving in the background. Anyone else catch this?[/quote]

    I went back and looked at the scene and didn’t see anything specific. However, it is filmed in Hawaii. It is meant to be the Los Angeles area. There are buildings, beaches and palm trees everywhere in both. If there was something glaring, I would chalk it up to production error rather than easter egg.

    : ) P

  606. Ament20 says:

    [quote comment="338478"][quote comment="338336"]I would like for other people to take a look at the scene where Jacob talks to Hurley right before he exits the cab…one moment in the background you clearly see the city…but at the very next cut its a beach scene with a palm tree waving in the background. Anyone else catch this?[/quote]

    I went back and looked at the scene and didn’t see anything specific. However, it is filmed in Hawaii. It is meant to be the Los Angeles area. There are buildings, beaches and palm trees everywhere in both. If there was something glaring, I would chalk it up to production error rather than easter egg.

    : ) P[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    I don’t know about that, if you turn the sound up you clearly hear waves in the background and why would they film that 2 second scene somewhere else. I know it doean’t have any bearing to the story but I thought it was a cool catch with Jacob getting off at the corner which happened to be the beach.

  607. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="338483"]
    I don’t know about that, if you turn the sound up you clearly hear waves in the background and why would they film that 2 second scene somewhere else. I know it doean’t have any bearing to the story but I thought it was a cool catch with Jacob getting off at the corner which happened to be the beach.[/quote]

    For most productions, when filming takes place in a moving car, they either do it on a green-screen in a studio, or they film driving up and down the same street repeatedly until they have all the shots completed. This is because they have to block all traffic and you can only do this in a limited area for a limited time.

    This scene is not on a green-screen. They film Hurley getting into a car at one location and Jacob getting out of the car at another location. They film the scenes in the car at another location. These three sets in that one act could have been filmed on three different days, two weeks apart. That is the magic of television.

    : ) P

  608. wingman says:

    Picking my head off the floor from shaking it @ people just realizing that the beeping smoke detector in Jack’s office and Christian sitting in the lobby might be related…

  609. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="338516"]Picking my head off the floor from shaking it @ people just realizing that the beeping smoke detector in Jack’s office and Christian sitting in the lobby might be related…[/quote]

    Of course they were related. I just didn’t think there might be actual SMOKE involved. I don’t remember YOU (or anyone else) mentioning that particular connection, wingman.

    : ) P

  610. slugdoc says:

    [quote comment="338533"][quote comment="338516"]Picking my head off the floor from shaking it @ people just realizing that the beeping smoke detector in Jack’s office and Christian sitting in the lobby might be related…[/quote]

    Of course they were related. I just didn’t think there might be actual SMOKE involved. I don’t remember YOU (or anyone else) mentioning that particular connection, wingman.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ____________________

    Right —
    pre-realization: Christian made smoke detector beep to draw Jack out where he would find him (christian)
    post-realization: Christian’s (Smokie’s, in this scenario) arrival involved actual smoke particles, which naturally set off the smoke detector.

    Slug

  611. wingman says:

    My pre-realization was always that this scene had a smokey-ish aspect to it (The first time I saw it I was like “Holy-$hit! SMOKE detector)…Like others I was already at the point where I thought the smoke could mimic memories or become them…I just didn’t know whether this scene was “misdirection” or not….Thinking the smoke monster or elements of it’s power can exist off-island was something I never thought was attainable, but now that the God-power premise of the show has kicked in it may be just a Jacob finger snap away from happening (or anti-Jacob rather)…With all that being said, I still always thought that scene had something to do with smokey, misdirection or not…

  612. DocH says:

    This from “13 months” ago on Smokie and the alarm. Not exactly a “new” concept.

    [quote comment="216986"]
    Jack catches a glimpse of dad in the hallway. Late at night he sees Dad in the waiting area, after the SMOKE alarm goes off… (HELLO – Smokey?)
    [/quote]

  613. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="338629"]This from “13 months” ago on Smokie and the alarm. Not exactly a “new” concept.

    Jack catches a glimpse of dad in the hallway. Late at night he sees Dad in the waiting area, after the SMOKE alarm goes off… (HELLO – Smokey?)
    [/quote]

    Kudos to you, DocH! I guess the beeping of the smoke detector / Swan alarm turned my brain off because I surely did NOT remember anyone making the actual SMOKE connection.

    : ) P

  614. slugdoc says:

    OK,Well I wasn’t reading this blog 13 months ago.
    :-)

    Nice catch

  615. dealer says:

    anyone else finding this air france 447 flight crash eerie?

  616. JZ says:

    [quote comment="338913"]anyone else finding this air france 447 flight crash eerie?[/quote]

    ____________

    I was talking about that with my co-workers….YES!

  617. Rezident says:

    Richard Alpert is not from the black rock. He’s from well before it years before it. Richard and the others speak latin, which is a Roman language. I’m guessin the Black rock represents One of Man’s fall from grace on the island.

    Ben spoke of a magic box during one of the previous seasons. Which at the time I took to mean they Others simply had the means to make things happen. However, maybe there is some magic box and it is this that Man ultimately struggles for. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.