Lost – The Final Season, “LA X”

Lost Last Supper

The premiere of Lost tonight, in its 6th and final season, includes three hours of entertainment beginning at 8 PM EST.  Hour 1 will effectively be a recap, the kind that we have grown accustomed to over the years, to refresh our memories on the peril in which our favorite characters will find themselves in at the beginning of Episode 1, which starts at 9 PM.  Due to the WGA strike from two years ago, we’ll get two additional hours this season, in the form of a two hour premiere and what I presume will be a two hour finale.  So, given we’ll get two full hours of new material tonight and Lost’s tendency to start of each season with a “bang”, tonight should prove to be fantastic even if the official show description does not give us much insight:

Episode 1 Official Show Description:  LA X – Parts 1 & 2

“The aftermath from Juliet’s detonation of the hydrogen bomb is revealed.”

So, circling back from the finale last year, we know that Juliet detonated Jughead (the H bomb) and that as a result of that event something cataclysmic will happen.  Further, “evil” Locke has emerged as an even more formidable force after seemingly murdering Jacob.  Clearly, there are a lot of different places the show could take us tonight, but if the title has any meaning, it is quite obvious that at least a portion of tonight’s premiere will take place on, or surrounding, Flight 815.

Did the detonation of the Jughead change the past?  Given what we know from the show that is unlikely, but not impossible.  More likely is that the detonation of the bomb pushes our characters back into their most appropriate timeline where things should get interesting given Locke’s current state of being.

Tons of spoilers are already circulating – the entire first hour of the premiere was leaked to YouTube yesterday.  You can view some episode previews below, but please keep the spoiler discussion to a minimum.  Enjoy!

Sneak Peek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnwNS94KVnw

About these ads
This entry was posted in Lost. Bookmark the permalink.

518 Responses to Lost – The Final Season, “LA X”

  1. Jeremy says:

    Looking forward to it, consistantly great writing and acting have made this show a force. Even the writer’s strike (which crippled a lot of TV dramas) couldn’t put a dent in LOST.

    What Superbowl?

  2. LostGrrl says:

    Excitement at a fever pitch. So happy this site is finally being updated. Been checking weekly!

    ABC has a teaser on its site, too, which presumably shows the first 2 minutes of tonight’s episode. No spoilers here, though, so I won’t tell.

  3. NikkiV says:

    Excitement is at a fever pitch..I don’t know what I will do before the premiere, but I especially don’t know what I will do after. Possible rioting in the streets..nah..I’ll save that for the finale.

  4. Melissa says:

    CANNOT WAIT!

  5. Jason says:

    Ok, here’s a question. I’m hoping someone can explain this in a way that makes sense to me. We know that Eloise remembers killing Daniel later in life. We know that she knew all along and drove him to go to the island anyway. How come Richard doesn’t ever seem to remember Locke or any of the others he comes into contact with. Hasn’t he “been here for a really long time”, according to Ben and Juliet?

  6. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369877"]Ok, here’s a question. I’m hoping someone can explain this in a way that makes sense to me. We know that Eloise remembers killing Daniel later in life. We know that she knew all along and drove him to go to the island anyway. How come Richard doesn’t ever seem to remember Locke or any of the others he comes into contact with. Hasn’t he “been here for a really long time”, according to Ben and Juliet?[/quote]

    To address some of the people Richard has seen over the years….

    The first time Richard sees Locke, Faraday, and Miles is in 1954, when they time-travelled back to 1954. (I don’t think he actually saw Sawyer or Juliet at that time)

    The next time Richard sees Locke on the island is in 2004 (which occurred in the latter half of season 3). At that time on the show, the writers couldn’t have Alpert come out and say, “I met you back in 1954” because that would have given away the time-travel aspect too soon.
    (This same logic could be applied to Richard ‘s reaction to seeing Sawyer, Jack, Kate, etc in 2004, season 3, after having first seen them in the 70’s)

    The next time after 1954 that Richard sees Faraday is in “The Variable”, and at one point early in their encounter, Richard says, “Do I know you?”, indicating that Faraday seems familiar to him.

  7. NikkiV says:

    [quote comment="369877"] Hasn’t he “been here for a really long time”, according to Ben and Juliet?[/quote]

    I think “time” is of great question on the island, huh?? Who really knows what time is when and when you have been and where you will go to??

    And sometimes Richard does know people he has met previously, but some he is meeting for the first time.

    Example: When he is helping Locke after he is shot. He knows him and he knows he will be there because Locke (or Evil Locke) tells him.

  8. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369877"]Ok, here’s a question. I’m hoping someone can explain this in a way that makes sense to me. We know that Eloise remembers killing Daniel later in life. We know that she knew all along and drove him to go to the island anyway. How come Richard doesn’t ever seem to remember Locke or any of the others he comes into contact with. Hasn’t he “been here for a really long time”, according to Ben and Juliet?[/quote]

    I think we have to consider what might be memorable events to someone. KILLING someone is something you probably won’t EVER forget, especially when you come to find out AFTERwards that it was your own son!

    Otherwise, do you remember EVERY person you have EVER met? While you might remember an event (the mayor coming to your elementary school, for example), you might not remember the faces of those involved. Richard might remember when a bald man came into his camp and started spouting off at the mouth, but not remember the face (just as I couldn’t pick the mayor out of a lineup, to save my life). Hope that makes sense.

    Presumably, Richard has encountered a LOT of people in his “many years” on the island making it even more difficult to remember them all.

    Toeknee explained it well: [quote comment="369878"]…the writers couldn’t have Alpert come out and say, “I met you back in 1954” because that would have given away the time-travel aspect too soon.

    The next time after 1954 that Richard sees Faraday is in “The Variable”, and at one point early in their encounter, Richard says, “Do I know you?”, indicating that Faraday seems familiar to him.[/quote]

    I suspect that if we go back and look at Richard encountering LOSTies he “should” have already known, it might explain some of those “blank” looks on his face.

    : ) P

  9. Cherry-Miss.Awesome says:

    YAY LOST DAYYYY Finally cant wait.

  10. Jason says:

    [quote comment="369880"][quote comment="369877"]Ok, here’s a question. I’m hoping someone can explain this in a way that makes sense to me. We know that Eloise remembers killing Daniel later in life. We know that she knew all along and drove him to go to the island anyway. How come Richard doesn’t ever seem to remember Locke or any of the others he comes into contact with. Hasn’t he “been here for a really long time”, according to Ben and Juliet?[/quote]

    I think we have to consider what might be memorable events to someone. KILLING someone is something you probably won’t EVER forget, especially when you come to find out AFTERwards that it was your own son!

    Otherwise, do you remember EVERY person you have EVER met? While you might remember an event (the mayor coming to your elementary school, for example), you might not remember the faces of those involved. Richard might remember when a bald man came into his camp and started spouting off at the mouth, but not remember the face (just as I couldn’t pick the mayor out of a lineup, to save my life). Hope that makes sense.

    Presumably, Richard has encountered a LOT of people in his “many years” on the island making it even more difficult to remember them all.

    Toeknee explained it well: [quote comment="369878"]…the writers couldn’t have Alpert come out and say, “I met you back in 1954” because that would have given away the time-travel aspect too soon.

    The next time after 1954 that Richard sees Faraday is in “The Variable”, and at one point early in their encounter, Richard says, “Do I know you?”, indicating that Faraday seems familiar to him.[/quote]

    I suspect that if we go back and look at Richard encountering LOSTies he “should” have already known, it might explain some of those “blank” looks on his face.

    : ) P[/quote]
    OK….thanks.

  11. wallyp says:

    Ok, so just to refresh… is Faraday really blood related to Mrs. Hawking or not? I can’t have that loose end flying around all season…

  12. Sheppard says:

    any thoughts on this war thats coming up….in examining the incident and mainly Jacob and the Other guy..Man in Black..we get the hint that Jacob is bringing the ship to the Island…my first thought was…well…thats how the black rock ends up in the jungle…smokey grabs it and launches it…(assuming smokey and the MIB are either one in the same..or working together)….also back to the war…any thoughts on the MIB having an “army” or “others” of his own…like jacob has his followers…maybe the war isnt the losties vs Smokey…but…the losties ..(who are jacobs recruits) vs some other group (MIB’s crew)

    also im not entirely sure Jacob didnt want to be killed…he did nothing to stop it…that could be explained by him giving Ben the “choice” but still…i think for some reason jacob wanted to die

    sorry for rambling…just excited to get back at this….

  13. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369884"]Ok, so just to refresh… is Faraday really blood related to Mrs. Hawking or not? I can’t have that loose end flying around all season…[/quote]

    I don’t know that it was ever established in canon, Wally. The pop-ups, which have previously been referred to as non-canon, said that Eloise (in 1977) was pregnant with Faraday. As I have said before, that seems highly unlikely. (Quoting myself from a past post:) We know that Faraday was a professor at Oxford in 1996. Even if he got his doctorate that SAME YEAR (which I doubt), he would have been 19 with a *doctorate* in physics at Oxford. That’s EIGHT years of college. Even if he did it in six, that would have put him graduating from high school at 13! I know he was the youngest doctor to graduate from Oxford, but still. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not to me.

    I believe Hawking raised Daniel. Did she give birth to him? I think that is still up for grabs.

    : ) P

  14. bolddeceiver says:

    Can’t believe it’s finally here. I’m very excited and also very sad that this will be the last season.

    I’ve been thinking alot about Locke, the backgammon game, and the vision were he has one black eye and one white. Now that MIB (Esau) is appearing as Locke, completing one half of the vision mentioned above, are we coming to a point were Jacob will inhabit Locke’s body? Maybe this is too literal. Just thinking about how the show is always examining the good and evil inside each character. Any thoughts?

  15. Lar says:

    Someone refresh my memory…do we know anything about Desmond any Penny’s fate since Ben’s visit to the dock?

  16. RGS says:

    Good to see the familiar faces, and I’m sure more are to follow. I heard that the poster above is supposed to contain clues to the season. I have no clue what they could mean. Since it’s suppose to look like the Last Supper, has anyone tried to do the trick similar to the DaVinci code where they transposed the characters?

    See you folks later tonight…and I’ll likely be “snowed” in (I still can’t get over how folks react to 2-3 inches of snow in this DC area lol).

  17. Jen says:

    If the MIB can find a loophole to kill Jacob then Jacob should be able to find a loophole to stay alive.
    Does anyone think that the MIB or Jacob is related to Richard Alpert?

  18. KC says:

    Looking at the pic above…Is the blonde Claire? Does that mean she’s back in the story line? Also, can’t seem to figure out who the dark haired woman on the far left is. Can someone jog my memory? 1st time poster – long time reader. Love this blog!!!

  19. wingman says:

    Hi regulars, sheeesh did somebody turn the mule wheel it’s February already???????

    Well for the first time ever I didn’t watch like every episode I had over the hiatus since I was dissapointed in some aspects of the season finale (Namely Anti-Jacob possibly being responsible for most of the mysteries and the “retconny” stuff with Jacob touching people in the past), But I’ve invested so much time into this show I’ll find a way to pull up my bootstraps and give into blind faith and hope that one of the greatest television shows I’ve ever watched ends well…I’m just gonna watch fresh and not bother going insane over the stuff from past seasons…So let’s all enjoy this together as much as we can…

    Time Travel >> Jacob, lol hopefully^^…

  20. Tasha says:

    I am ready…about 35 minutes until Lost Night begins!! I hope the wait is worth it!

  21. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369892"]Looking at the pic above…Is the blonde Claire? Does that mean she’s back in the story line? Also, can’t seem to figure out who the dark haired woman on the far left is. Can someone jog my memory? 1st time poster – long time reader. Love this blog!!![/quote]

    Yes, that is Claire. Emilie de Ravin was always going to be back for season six.

    I think the dark haired woman on the far left is Ilana. That picture is pretty small, but that is who it looks like to me.

    : ) P

  22. Mateo says:

    FINALLY!
    Does anyone miss the real Locke? I do. get out the food and beer, this is our superbowl…

  23. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369897"]FINALLY!
    get out the food and beer, this is our superbowl…[/quote]

    Excellent analogy, Mateo. This is the World Series, the Superbowl, and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows all rolled into one!

    : ) P

  24. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="369897"]FINALLY!
    Does anyone miss the real Locke? I do. get out the food and beer, this is our superbowl…[/quote]

    I was thinking the same thing a little while ago…

  25. helen says:

    [quote comment="369898"][quote comment="369897"]FINALLY!
    get out the food and beer, this is our superbowl…[/quote]

    Excellent analogy, Mateo. This is the World Series, the Superbowl, and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows all rolled into one!

    : ) P[/quote]

    Spot on! and a birthday gift!

  26. GeriBNJ says:

    Where’s Hammer?

  27. Ben says:

    LA-X Its an alternate reality!

  28. Toeknee says:

    OK I’m not so sure I liked that beginning scene, but I’ll reserve final judgment until the end of the episode.

    Enjoy everyone!

  29. Miss lost says:

    Can’t wait for this to start…rewatched season 1 just to refresh my memory and it made me think even more how great the writing is for the most part.
    Anyone else think it is interesting that the premiere is on Groundhogs Day? Shadows and a movie about a day that just keeps repeating itself…until something is resolved? Just a thought…

  30. PJSander says:

    Too many commercials!

  31. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369889"]Someone refresh my memory…do we know anything about Desmond any Penny’s fate since Ben’s visit to the dock?[/quote]
    The last we say, Desmond was recovering in the hospital after Ben shot him, and Penny (and little Charlie) were there with him.

  32. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369887"][quote comment="369884"]Ok, so just to refresh… is Faraday really blood related to Mrs. Hawking or not? I can’t have that loose end flying around all season…[/quote]

    I don’t know that it was ever established in canon, Wally. The pop-ups, which have previously been referred to as non-canon, said that Eloise (in 1977) was pregnant with Faraday. As I have said before, that seems highly unlikely. (Quoting myself from a past post:) We know that Faraday was a professor at Oxford in 1996. Even if he got his doctorate that SAME YEAR (which I doubt), he would have been 19 with a *doctorate* in physics at Oxford. That’s EIGHT years of college. Even if he did it in six, that would have put him graduating from high school at 13! I know he was the youngest doctor to graduate from Oxford, but still. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not to me.

    I believe Hawking raised Daniel. Did she give birth to him? I think that is still up for grabs.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________________
    I think it was pretty well established on the show that Ms. Hawking was his biological mother. There were no hints at her not being his biological mother like there was with Ben and Alex. I doubt they’ll ever have more to say on the subject. It’s not like we ever got 100% conclusive proof that Christian is Jack’s biological Dad, but we assume that to be the case.

  33. Newmanium says:

    Why do I feel like I just watched the finale instead of the premiere?

  34. LINS says:

    Whoa!! Locke=Smokey!! And the ash!!

    So happy LOST is back!!

  35. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="369908"]Why do I feel like I just watched the finale instead of the premiere?[/quote]

    Yeah. What’s up with that?

  36. Ben says:

    Others who have screened the premire mentioned how it left them more confused than when we started tonight.

  37. LINS says:

    Well that answers the question about what was in the guitar case…I guess…

  38. Rumblestilskin says:

    so far, I agree with that :(

  39. KatieB says:

    First-time poster – love this blog! My question: so if Juliet says it worked, why are they still on the island (at least in some sort of parallel universe or something)? This IS more confusing than when we started!

  40. Tasha says:

    I am guessing in the end it actually works. We are watching what is leading up to it? I don’t know I better watch the rest.

  41. Macgyver says:

    I’m so pleased to see everyone back….. let the debunking Begin!!!!

  42. Rumblestilskin says:

    Here here!!!! Remember when everyone was trying to guess who Jacob was? LOL

  43. iowakid56484 says:

    Good to be back-great show so far

  44. Rumblestilskin says:

    Desmond was sitting on the plane next 2 Jack, which is super weird.

  45. Ben says:

    Desmond was sitting next to Jack and was on the plane because that is not reality. LA-X not LAX. X-Factor….what would have happened if the plane landed. It did not. Remember Desmond is the variable who has lived in all time periods. He is still needed.

  46. Rumblestilskin says:

    Im not saying that the rest of what your saying may not be true, but I didnt see him in the 50’s (yet) :)

  47. Rumblestilskin says:

    Desmond was in the hatch when the original 815 flew

  48. Tasha says:

    Desmond is their “Bloody Constant!”

  49. Rumblestilskin says:

    He’s their sodding constant :)

  50. LINS says:

    Richard in chains…like perhaps on the Black Rock?

  51. Rumblestilskin says:

    Booooooo!!!!! Worst episode ever!

  52. Ben says:

    Rumple, do you get it?

  53. iowakid56484 says:

    Not the worse but very confusiing

  54. Tasha says:

    I kept thinking to myself that this season would produce only answers and no more questions. I was way off there. I LOVE IT THOUGH!

  55. Toeknee says:

    Well, that was certainly confusing, but I enjoyed it and I’m psyched for the rest of this season.

    Not sure what to make of the “alternate timeline” and dead Juliet telling Miles “it worked”. I really bought into Faraday’s Whatever Happened Happened theory, and his rule about not creating a separate road or however he put it, so it’s gonna take me a while to accept 2 timelines. But even so, I can’t see where they take this story.

  56. Rumblestilskin says:

    Ben—–> Do I get what?

    Tasha—-> My words exactly

  57. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369932"]I really bought into Faraday’s Whatever Happened Happened theory, and his rule about not creating a separate road or however he put it, so it’s gonna take me a while to accept 2 timelines. But even so, I can’t see where they take this story.[/quote]

    I can’t help but wonder if the second timeline was to remind us what they were leaving. Can we really expect that to keep up all season? Or maybe it is a way to allow all the dead characters a chance to live? I am perplexed. I really enjoyed the episode though. Juliet’s alive! Juliet’s dead. Sayid is dead! Sayid is alive. Any chance that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body?

    : ) P

  58. DANTE says:

    PJSander
    Comment 57, posted 1 minute ago – Quote and reply
    Toeknee wrote:

    I really bought into Faraday’s Whatever Happened Happened theory, and his rule about not creating a separate road or however he put it, so it’s gonna take me a while to accept 2 timelines. But even so, I can’t see where they take this story.

    I can’t help but wonder if the second timeline was to remind us what they were leaving. Can we really expect that to keep up all season? Or maybe it is a way to allow all the dead characters a chance to live? I am perplexed. I really enjoyed the episode though. Juliet’s alive! Juliet’s dead. Sayid is dead! Sayid is alive. Any chance that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body?
    ———————————————–
    dude i so doudt that because smokey took the form as John Locke not taking control of his body, but i could be wrong we have yet to know what Jacob is fully capable of. Also i think this is leading up to Richard saying he saw all 5 of them die, so obviously he has to see Sayid die again, if it makes sense.

  59. Rumblestilskin says:

    PJSander, That was my immediate thought too (about Sayid).
    I noticed that the “2nd timeline” was not what whould have happened if the plane had landed, but an alternate story all togeather. Super weird.

  60. Ben says:

    From lostpedia-

    Flash Sideways: A term used to refer to scenes happening in an alternate time line. The concept is similar to flash forward or flash back.

  61. Rumblestilskin says:

    BEN—> Thats interesting

  62. Toeknee says:

    Yeah, and I’m not sure what Desmond’s presence on the plane meant. Jack should have recognized him, as he seemed to do, because they ran into each other before the original flight 815 took off, and before Des went on his around-the-world race. Maybe in the alternate timeline, Des wouldn’t have ended up on the island? But then how do you explain the crater at the hatch? AAAAAGGGGHHH?!!! My brain hurts!

  63. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369936"]
    I noticed that the “2nd timeline” was not what whould have happened if the plane had landed, but an alternate story all togeather. Super weird.[/quote]

    True. If you think about it though… if the incident didn’t happen, then maybe whatever triggered Widmore’s banishment wouldn’t happen, which might mean that he has a different life with Penny, which meant that she never met Desmond, which is why he was on the plane instead of in the hatch. Sort of.

    As many questions as we got, we did get some major answers… Why the ash? What is smokey? Where were Cindy, Zack and Emma? What is the temple?

    Was anyone else thrown by the John Lennon/Charles Manson lookalike at the temple? Given that Jeremy Davies played Charles Manson in a movie, I found it mildly disconcerting!

    : ) P

  64. Toeknee says:

    Also, why wasn’t Shannon on the plane with Boone? How does that fit into the alternate timeline?

  65. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369940"]But then how do you explain the crater at the hatch? AAAAAGGGGHHH?!!! My brain hurts![/quote]

    Ummm… a BOMB just exploded?! IDK, just throwing it out there. The secondary timeline has been confuzzled, but I am willing to sit through the remaining sixteen hours to figure it out!

    : ) P

  66. Rumblestilskin says:

    That hatch crater is just not right.
    If it was indeed the swan hatch blown up in 2004 or whatever, then how is all of that metal drill tower over the hole. Aaahhh!!!

  67. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369942"]Also, why wasn’t Shannon on the plane with Boone? How does that fit into the alternate timeline?[/quote]

    I remember that Shannon didn’t want to leave Australia – so maybe in this secondary timeline, Boone didn’t force the issue?

    : ) P

  68. Lefty says:

    [quote comment="369932"]Well, that was certainly confusing, but I enjoyed it and I’m psyched for the rest of this season.

    Not sure what to make of the “alternate timeline” and dead Juliet telling Miles “it worked”. I really bought into Faraday’s Whatever Happened Happened theory, and his rule about not creating a separate road or however he put it, so it’s gonna take me a while to accept 2 timelines. But even so, I can’t see where they take this story.[/quote]

    but remember Faraday had a new theory about variables?? before he died remember what he said?

  69. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369941"]

    Was anyone else thrown by the John Lennon/Charles Manson lookalike at the temple? Given that Jeremy Davies played Charles Manson in a movie, I found it mildly disconcerting!

    : ) P[/quote]
    LOL no way! I was glad to see that guy – he was in HBO’s Deadwood series. (John Hawkes is the actor’s name)

    (Other Lost charachters played by Deadwood alumni: Picket’s wife, whom Sun kills, and Juliet’s sister Rachel)

  70. Lola says:

    Still wrapping my brain around the episode…wishing every episode from here on out could be 2 hours long.

  71. KatieB says:

    I agree with Rumble: the hatch isn’t right. I thought that it was the LOCATION of the hatch, but the time was immediately after Juliet hit the bomb. If it was supposedly the hatch after Desmond’s ‘mishap’, then where was Desmond?

  72. Rumblestilskin says:

    you should refresh out memories. I remember him telling elois that he was her son.
    Before that, he said alot

  73. Francesco says:

    Where did the picture (which looks like the Last Supper) come from? Is it an easter egg? John is in the place of Jesus, but Kate is where Judas is (at least in DaVinci’s depiction).

  74. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369943"][quote comment="369940"]But then how do you explain the crater at the hatch? AAAAAGGGGHHH?!!! My brain hurts![/quote]

    Ummm… a BOMB just exploded?! IDK, just throwing it out there. The secondary timeline has been confuzzled, but I am willing to sit through the remaining sixteen hours to figure it out!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ____________________

    But the way Kate and Sawyer explained it, this was the crater caused by Des turning the fail safe. (which may have been the bomb?) So, referring to my previous post, if Des wasn’t onthe island, he couldn’t have turned the failsafe key, so no crater?

  75. joe says:

    booo-urns!

    not feeling that opener. i’m calling it sloppy and uneventful.

    i may be jumping the gun on this, since the writers have another 16 episodes to fill in the gaps as to what’s going on, but i’m going to go on record by saying that this definitely was not the highly touted opener we were led to believe it was going to be. the alt-timeline (which is in the past i surmise) is ok. the action at the foot was (which i my opinion is the best subplot) was edgy for maybe 4 minutes. but the whole hatch/temple/others 2.0 camp dragged and then dragged some more.

    ho-hum.

    6.2 on the joe scale.

  76. Ben says:

    I think someone moved the Island as Juliet was hitting the bomb. As she said, it did not go off. Whoever moved the Island brought the losties to present day. (Remember the temple others set off the flare, and the beach others see it. Somehow the losties got to present day from 1977. Again I guess the island got moved.

  77. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369946"][quote comment="369932"]Well, that was certainly confusing, but I enjoyed it and I’m psyched for the rest of this season.

    Not sure what to make of the “alternate timeline” and dead Juliet telling Miles “it worked”. I really bought into Faraday’s Whatever Happened Happened theory, and his rule about not creating a separate road or however he put it, so it’s gonna take me a while to accept 2 timelines. But even so, I can’t see where they take this story.[/quote]

    but remember Faraday had a new theory about variables?? before he died remember what he said?[/quote]
    __________________________
    Yeah, but I was kind of hoping that he was wrong about the variables, and that his original theories were actually correct. And I thought his dying words (“You knew”) were him realizing that Whatever Happened, did happen, and you can’t change things, and he realized he was wrong about the variables.

  78. Ben says:

    Des was on the island and did turn the key in 2004. He also left the island with the oceanic six. He did not return with the ajira group. When the present day ajira group returns to the island (present day) Des had imploded the hatch 3 years prior.

  79. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369949"]I agree with Rumble: the hatch isn’t right. I thought that it was the LOCATION of the hatch, but the time was immediately after Juliet hit the bomb. If it was supposedly the hatch after Desmond’s ‘mishap’, then where was Desmond?[/quote]
    The time couldn’t have been immediately after Juliet hit the bomb, because that was in 1977, but these guys all ended up in 2007 (or “Island Present”, as D&C haver referred to it)

  80. z says:

    I have more questions after this ep than I have ever had during the previous 5 seasons of this show.
    I am guessing, however, that the reason why Oceanic lost Christian Shepherd’s body is because the black monster penetrated his body and walked away.
    However, since the island was shown at the bottom of the ocean in the ‘flash sideways’ I can’t really wrap my head around why.
    Another idea is that perhaps the writers will merge the flash sideways thread with what’s going on on the island by offering reasons for everyone to jump back on the plane to Australia (i.e. Sun and Jin are deported; Kate taken back; Jack going back to find his dad). During the return flight they may crash once again to return to the island.
    I have no idea what’s going on…

  81. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369952"]But the way Kate and Sawyer explained it, this was the crater caused by Des turning the fail safe. (which may have been the bomb?) So, referring to my previous post, if Des wasn’t onthe island, he couldn’t have turned the failsafe key, so no crater?[/quote]

    Here is how I am seeing it in this immediate post LOST fog – the Jughead DID explode (hence the crater, with the construction detritus) and it DID work (hence the alternate timeline). *But* when it reset the events that happened after July 1977, it also caused the existing LOSTies to flash to “present day” on the island (which should still be 2007).

    I don’t know if I have explained myself properly or not, but that’s the best I can do in this foggy moment!

    : ) P

  82. Rumblestilskin says:

    If Dez had inploded the hatch 3yrs prior, then why is the metal from the drill on top?

    When they showed the imploded hatch when Dez ACTUALLY imploded it, it looked like just dirt.

  83. Kyle says:

    [quote comment="369954"]I think someone moved the Island as Juliet was hitting the bomb. As she said, it did not go off. Whoever moved the Island brought the losties to present day. (Remember the temple others set off the flare, and the beach others see it. Somehow the losties got to present day from 1977. Again I guess the island got moved.[/quote]

    If The Island was moved in time, then how come Jacob and Co. on the beach didn’t see the sky turn purple and a big ass annoying sound?

  84. Toeknee says:

    For those who didn’t like this episode (joe, rumblestilskin), I can understand your feelings. But I say give it a chance – continue on with the remaining episodes. I could see this one as being consideres a great episode ( a “game changer”?) when viewed with the perspective of the entire final season.

  85. Ben says:

    PJ you know better than that…..Juliet even said the bomb did not go off.

  86. Kyle says:

    [quote comment="369959"][quote comment="369952"]But the way Kate and Sawyer explained it, this was the crater caused by Des turning the fail safe. (which may have been the bomb?) So, referring to my previous post, if Des wasn’t onthe island, he couldn’t have turned the failsafe key, so no crater?[/quote]

    Here is how I am seeing it in this immediate post LOST fog – the Jughead DID explode (hence the crater, with the construction detritus) and it DID work (hence the alternate timeline). *But* when it reset the events that happened after July 1977, it also caused the existing LOSTies to flash to “present day” on the island (which should still be 2007).

    I don’t know if I have explained myself properly or not, but that’s the best I can do in this foggy moment!

    : ) P[/quote]

    The “present” on the island in late 2004/early 2005.

  87. Tasha says:

    WHen they noticed the water wasn’t clear they seemed surprised and wanted to know what happened. Was it because Jacob had been killed? The water looked red to me. Blood of Jacob maybe?

  88. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369963"]PJ you know better than that…..Juliet even said the bomb did not go off.[/quote]

    If Juliet and the rest of the LOSTies FLASHED *as* the bomb went off, *they* would not have seen / felt the bomb exploding.

    : ) P

  89. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369964"]The “present” on the island in late 2004/early 2005.[/quote]

    Nope. The freighter left the island in late 2004 / early 2005. Sawyer et al lived as DHARMAites for three years before Jack et al returned to the island on Ajira.

    : ) P

  90. Rumblestilskin says:

    ToeKnee—–> Im def sticking it out ’till the end. Too much time and heart invested.

    I just wanted answers instead of new questions, and finally………..

    WHERE’S THE RITCHARD EPISODE?!!!!

  91. Melissa says:

    Anybody know what book Hurley picked up when they went into the entrance to the Temple??

  92. z says:

    [quote comment="369927"]Richard in chains…like perhaps on the Black Rock?[/quote]
    I like that theory. After all, Richard has been on the island forever and he never ages. But what did the black monster/guy in black mean when he said he wanted to go home? Where could home be for a seemingly supernatural dude?

  93. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369959"][quote comment="369952"]But the way Kate and Sawyer explained it, this was the crater caused by Des turning the fail safe. (which may have been the bomb?) So, referring to my previous post, if Des wasn’t onthe island, he couldn’t have turned the failsafe key, so no crater?[/quote]

    Here is how I am seeing it in this immediate post LOST fog – the Jughead DID explode (hence the crater, with the construction detritus) and it DID work (hence the alternate timeline). *But* when it reset the events that happened after July 1977, it also caused the existing LOSTies to flash to “present day” on the island (which should still be 2007).

    I don’t know if I have explained myself properly or not, but that’s the best I can do in this foggy moment!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ___________________________
    LOL agree completely about the fog. I can’t think straight enough to ttry to explain what I was trying to say previously.

    But, in response to this scenario, are you saying all the construction debris also flashed to 2007? That would be the only explanation, I suppose, for how it’s still relatively clean – no rust, not buried in dirt or leaves or covered with vines and whatnot. But, then I don’t know what would have occupied that space between 1977 and 2007.

  94. Ben says:

    Touche PJ, but whatever happened, happened.

  95. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="369969"]Anybody know what book Hurley picked up when they went into the entrance to the Temple??[/quote]

    Sorry, I didnt notice :(

  96. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369968"]ToeKnee—–> Im def sticking it out ’till the end. Too much time and heart invested.

    I just wanted answers instead of new questions, and finally………..

    WHERE’S THE RITCHARD EPISODE?!!!![/quote]
    LOL agree with all that, especially the request for a Richard episode. I agree with those who say he must have been on the black rock, but why would he be in chains?

  97. Rumblestilskin says:

    Perhaps he was a slave being transported on the black rock, instead of the captain or something

  98. Rumblestilskin says:

    I dont think this Nightline is going 2 give us any insight either

  99. Toeknee says:

    A few closing thoughts before I head to bed:

    Great bedside manner by Hurley early in the episode – “oh god this is gross”

    Interesting to see Hurley being more assertive overall in this episode. I like it

    More great acting by Michael Emerson playing Ben as scared, truly scared, for the first time.

    When Cindy said something like “they were on the first plane, with me”, at first I thought that meant she/they were aware of a second timeline with the second version of OA815. But in hindsight, knowing that the time of that scene was “Island Present”, I believe she was referring to flight 316

  100. Ben says:

    I think Flocke was referring to Richard being “handcuffed” to Jacob. Like as a servant.

  101. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369971"]But, in response to this scenario, are you saying all the construction debris also flashed to 2007? That would be the only explanation, I suppose, for how it’s still relatively clean – no rust, not buried in dirt or leaves or covered with vines and whatnot. But, then I don’t know what would have occupied that space between 1977 and 2007.[/quote]

    Well the debris shouldn’t have flashed, but you are right, it should have looked more rusted, etc.

    The one thing that stands out to me is that we saw that Radzinsky and Chang were NOT KILLED (as was pretty much everyone else – except maybe Phil) in the pre-explosion gun fight. We know they both played a part in the DI in the “future” (post 1977), with Chang in the videos and Radzinsky as the guy pushing the button in the hatch with Inman (before Desmond). I feel like it is important we remember that, though I am not sure why.

    : ) P

  102. Rumblestilskin says:

    crazy is all i hav 2 say…………

    seacrest out!!

  103. Rumblestilskin says:

    I heard someone, last season, suggest that Sawyer becomes Inman

    ???

  104. Tasha says:

    SO I was thinking maybe the whole Jacob is Sayid now thing really is true. That is why Jacob wanted Hurley to fix him. He knew he was going to die anyway, so decided his body would have to do. How ironic that Sayid killed Ben at one time and now Ben killed Jacob/Sayid.

    That might not make sense to anyone, but makes sense to me:)

  105. Ben says:

    “The book encountered in the Temple is “Fear and Trembling” by the philosopher Soren Kierkegaard.” – Lostpedia

  106. JJL says:

    I haven’t posted on here in about a year and a half. I missed reading all your interesting insights and decided it was time to come back…I also apologize if I repeat something someone previously said…

    Anywhoo, did anyone else get a chill when Jack told wheelchair-bound Locke that ‘nothing is irreversible’? I’m taking that as a hint that the real Locke will definitely be back.

  107. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="369982"]SO I was thinking maybe the whole Jacob is Sayid now thing really is true. That is why Jacob wanted Hurley to fix him. He knew he was going to die anyway, so decided his body would have to do. How ironic that Sayid killed Ben at one time and now Ben killed Jacob/Sayid.

    That might not make sense to anyone, but makes sense to me:)[/quote]

    I think Sayid’s body was always meant for Jacob, thats why he’s on the list that was in the ankh

  108. JJL says:

    Regarding the Sayid is Jacob idea – imo, Jacob somehow imbued those he touched with his spirit or whatever, which I think will be his ‘loophole’. That’s why he think he needs them all to be alive.

  109. MT says:

    If Richard Alpert was on the Black Rock ship in chains, he may have been there as a captured pirate. For the common pirate the next level of punishment after flogging was slavery. He may have been on his way to become someone’s cheap disposable labor. Perhaps he was “rescued” by Jacob and in exchange for his “eternal” servitude to Jacob, he was given “eternal” youth?

  110. Ben says:

    I like where MT is going.

  111. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="369987"]If Richard Alpert was on the Black Rock ship in chains, he may have been there as a captured pirate. For the common pirate the next level of punishment after flogging was slavery. He may have been on his way to become someone’s cheap disposable labor. Perhaps he was “rescued” by Jacob and in exchange for his “eternal” servitude to Jacob, he was given “eternal” youth?[/quote]

    Sounds good.

    : ) P

  112. Lola says:

    had to watch it again-Still can’t figure out what Juliet said to Sawyer, when she thought he was someone else-something about going dutch?

    I’m with PJ-calling that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body.

  113. Rumblestilskin says:

    I beleive that Lanna <—-Sp? and others from the AlJeera flight (that arent dead) are a part of Jacobs contingency plan.

    As long as Evil Locke had to plan Jacobs death, thats how long Jacob had to come up with a contingency plan. Jacob will win.

  114. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    Desmond wouldn’t have crashed into the island during his trip around the world, because the island is apparently at the bottom of the ocean. I think the explosion from the hatch is from Jughead, not from Desmond turning the key.

    I wonder why Desmond is on that flight though. Desmond is “special”, so he still has all the flashes and memories, so he knew about the flight, and decided to take it to see if the Losties remembered crashing?

    Not sure, just a few thoughts.

  115. intolost says:

    Great episode. So who was “Locke-monster” dragging around when Ben came to confront him? I couldn’t see who it was. A Jacob body guard dude? Seems “Esau” is “Locke-monster,” so is Jacob now “Sayid?” Me thinks. Why else would Jacob want Sayid brought to the temple? Hmm….

  116. Ben says:

    I will say this with convection one more time….THE BOMB DID NOT GO OFF, THE ISLAND MOVED.

  117. intolost says:

    First round, Locke’s destiny. Second round, Jack’s free-will? Oooohhh!!! BTW Kate is in the place of Mary Magdalene in the “Last Supper” portrait. Sayid is in the place of Judas! Ack!

  118. intolost says:

    Jack is in the place of Doubting Thomas!

  119. intolost says:

    [quote comment="369994"]I will say this with convection one more time….THE BOMB DID NOT GO OFF, THE ISLAND MOVED.[/quote]

    Could be. But aren’t all events now simultaneous?

  120. Ben says:

    Yes but losties had to get from 1977 to 2007. Thus the island moved. Jin even said, Ive felt this before, the headaches, the ringing of the ears.

  121. Frank says:

    Headaches and ringing of ears = time travel; headaches and ringing = island moved, time shifts stopped.

  122. Shadow says:

    Wow, my head hurts so bad right now. I don’t even know up from down anymore. Ok, who’s Cindy? Where have we seen her before. My head hurts so bad, I can’t think straight.

  123. Frank says:

    um…. sorry too much wine. when the island moved, headaches etc. stopped. they happened when it was skipping thru time.

  124. Frank says:

    Cindy was the flight attendant. she got taken by the others and was holding the kinds’ hands in a scene where sawyer was in a polar bear cage…..

  125. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    But why did we see an alternate timeline if the bomb didn’t go off?

    I agree that the island moved/went through time, but couldn’t the bomb release energy just like the frozen donkey wheel that Ben turned?

  126. Frank says:

    [quote comment="370003"]But why did we see an alternate timeline if the bomb didn’t go off?

    I agree that the island moved/went through time, but couldn’t the bomb release energy just like the frozen donkey wheel that Ben turned?[/quote]

    Or like when des turned the failsafe key

  127. Ben says:

    Good interview on Kimmel with D and C. I know we shouldnt discuss the future here, but lets rethink our Jacob = Sayid theory.

  128. Ben says:

    If an atom bomb or any bomb went off, and you were next to it, would you still be alive? I know there is crazy stuff on this show, but there is a but of reality too.

  129. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="370003"]But why did we see an alternate timeline if the bomb didn’t go off?

    I agree that the island moved/went through time, but couldn’t the bomb release energy just like the frozen donkey wheel that Ben turned?[/quote]

    It seems, to me, that if the bomb went off, it would release the energy, like when Dezmond turned the key.

    That is to say, that it wouldnt necessarily cause time travel.

  130. PJSander says:

    When Juliet hit the bomb, I believe that it exploded AND the LOSTies simultaneously flashed in TIME. Remember that time flashes can happen without the island actually moving.

    How the island got underwater? No idea.

    : ) P

  131. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370006"]If an atom bomb or any bomb went off, and you were next to it, would you still be alive? I know there is crazy stuff on this show, but there is a but of reality too.[/quote]

    You would be alive if you simultaneously traveled to another time (removing your worldly body from the time immediately before the explosion).

    : ) P

  132. I.M. Lost says:

    I see all of you guys are saying its an alternate timeline. I thought it was just another flashforward. Throughout the seasons it has always been a flashback or flashforward…why not now?

  133. Ben says:

    Cause U.R. LOST.

  134. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    My other thought is:

    What if the fail safe key that Desmond turns triggers the bomb beneath the hatch?

    We may be over-estimating the blast of the bomb. After all, it’s not the entire bomb, it is enough to get the job done as Faraday says in his journal.

    Still just spit-balling and trying to figure this out.

  135. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370010"]I see all of you guys are saying its an alternate timeline. I thought it was just another flashforward. Throughout the seasons it has always been a flashback or flashforward…why not now?[/quote]

    D&C have said that there will be no flashbacks or flashforwards this season, just one continuous timeline…therefore alternate timeline.

  136. Shadow says:

    Why the hell is the island under water? What????

  137. Ben says:

    If the bomb went off (and it didnt) that would not change the events leading up to 815. Michael and Walt would have been on board, as well as Shannon. Welcome to flashsideways.

  138. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370013"]
    D&C have said that there will be no flashbacks or flashforwards this season, just one continuous timeline…therefore alternate timeline.[/quote]

    At one time they also said there wasn’t time travel. I don’t think it was a flashforward, didn’t make sense. Flashback to 2004 in the ALTERNATE reality. Sure, you could call that a flashback – not a “normal” flashback though.

    : ) P

  139. Shadow says:

    No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?

  140. Shadow says:

    Was the island under water in the alternate universe where the bomb went off?

  141. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="370010"]I see all of you guys are saying its an alternate timeline. I thought it was just another flashforward. Throughout the seasons it has always been a flashback or flashforward…why not now?[/quote]

    Good Point, except maybe for all of the dead people being alive…… But anythings possible

    Except anything that Ben says :)

  142. BCinDC says:

    Lots of questions bout tonights episode…dont really like how their throwing new characters at us, who is asian leader? I was ok with the time travel but now there is a alternate timeline going on?? Now all season we are going to be going back and forth between the two or do you all think that this alterante timeline will stop after a few episodes. not really sure how they can contintue the story with it. what, kate runs from the cops, jack heals locke, sawyer takes hurleys money.. etc etc. not complaining just concerned.

  143. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370015"]If the bomb went off (and it didnt) that would not change the events leading up to 815. Michael and Walt would have been on board, as well as Shannon. Welcome to flashsideways.[/quote]

    You can believe what you want to about the bomb. But it exploding certainly COULD change the events leading up to 815. As I said in post 63, if the Incident didn’t happen, there are a LOT of things in 27 years that would change in the course of the world. Widmore might not have been banished; Desmond might not have met Penny; who knows how Michael and Walt’s lives might have been different. We didn’t see Eko, or Ana Lucia, or Libby either. We only saw Claire in the taxi (and we didn’t see her belly – she might not even be pregnant).

    And FWIW, just because we didn’t SEE Michael and Walt on the plane, doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Malcolm David Kelley is SIX years older than he was in the pilot, they couldn’t very well recreate his experience!

    : ) P

  144. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]

    Sorry man, no idea

  145. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]

    We are all guessing just like you. No idea.

    : ) P

  146. Found says:

    I agree that the bomb did not go off, if it had there would be a huge crater, the debris would have been vaporized. I think what happened was the original incident. We never found out what the incident was, completely. I think that the island flashed through time to catch up to the current timeline caused by the magnetic anomaly event. All of the debris flashed with them, which is why it looked as if it had just happened. The “Alternate Universe” timeline began as a result of the event. I find it interesting that even without the crash our losties still have interaction with each other… Destiny is still destiny, no mater which road you travel to get there…

  147. BCinDC says:

    [quote comment="370019"][quote comment="370010"]I see all of you guys are saying its an alternate timeline. I thought it was just another flashforward. Throughout the seasons it has always been a flashback or flashforward…why not now?[/quote]

    Good Point, except maybe for all of the dead people being alive…… But anythings possible

    Except anything that Ben says :)[/quote]

    the only way i can see it being a flashforward(or would it be flashback cause its in 2004 again?) would be in something happened on the island where it would send them back in time as if nothing ever happened? I have no idea actually….LOL.

  148. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370022"][quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]

    Sorry man, no idea[/quote]

    Thanks, I don’t know anything anymore. And girl, not man.

  149. Rumblestilskin says:

    Me either really. Its frustrating unless you have it all figured out like Ben

  150. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    I think part of the reason we didn’t see all the characters is probably just because some of the actors were unable to do it.

    I also agree that they can’t show Walt, because he’s way older now.

    They probably asked everyone to come back, but only some obliged.

    JMO

  151. Rumblestilskin says:

    Sorry, Mrs. Shadow ;)

  152. Rumblestilskin says:

    ……or is it Miss? :D

  153. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370028"]I think part of the reason we didn’t see all the characters is probably just because some of the actors were unable to do it.

    I also agree that they can’t show Walt, because he’s way older now.

    They probably asked everyone to come back, but only some obliged.

    JMO[/quote]

    I saw in a D&C interview that they asked Libby to come back and she didn’t want to .

  154. Ben says:

    Ok last thought. The bomb did not go off. The incident happened. The hatch got built for a reason as we see it imploded. Why build a hatch if the bomb went off?

  155. Ben says:

    Here Here Found. Good point.
    Gnight all.

  156. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370032"]Ok last thought. The bomb did not go off. The incident happened. The hatch got built for a reason as we see it imploded. Why build a hatch if the bomb went off?[/quote]

    good point. ok, again, why is the island in the bottom of the ocean?

  157. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="370032"]Ok last thought. The bomb did not go off. The incident happened. The hatch got built for a reason as we see it imploded. Why build a hatch if the bomb went off?[/quote]

    they didnt build a hatch, thats why the debris from the drill was on top of the HOLE.

    There was no hole when it ACTUALLY imploded, after Dezmond turned the key.

  158. Ben says:

    The island is under the ocean in an alternate timeline so who cares. It sunk and would not be there for the alternate 815 to land on. I think they were just showing you how this is different. FYI- did you notice the Dharma shark swimming around the barraks?

  159. Ben says:

    They did build the hatch and thats what the losties recognized. They werent like hey we are still at the swan sight and no one else is around.

  160. Rumblestilskin says:

    nagative…………..

    End of line

  161. Shadow says:

    I am watching D&C on Jimmy Kimmel. They were asked “Is John Locke possessed by the man in black?” And they answered “No”!! Huh?

  162. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="370039"]I am watching D&C on Jimmy Kimmel. They were asked “Is John Locke possessed by the man in black?” And they answered “No”!! Huh?[/quote]

    Locke is dead on the beach. Thats how I understood it when Evil Locke was talking about Locke to Ben

  163. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370040"][quote comment="370039"]I am watching D&C on Jimmy Kimmel. They were asked “Is John Locke possessed by the man in black?” And they answered “No”!! Huh?[/quote]

    Locke is dead on the beach. Thats how I understood it when Evil Locke was talking about Locke to Ben[/quote]

    Yeah, but what about evil locke? That’s still Locke’s body. Oh I am too confused.

  164. Rumblestilskin says:

    Me too. IDK where that body came from, but its not the one laying on the beach :)

    Maybe Jacob will end up posessing Christian’s body, since its lost now.

    Christian is one of Jacob’s people. Not only did he say that he could speak for him, but he was in the cabin BEFORE the ash ring was broken.

  165. Rumblestilskin says:

    IDK either. It may be time to go to bed

  166. The Kath says:

    I don’t think Jacob is Sayid. If he were going by the same rules/logic as The Man in Black couldn’t he look like Sayid but there would still be a Sayid body dead and laying around somewhere?

  167. jacob says:

    I have a theory, too. The writers are as Lost as we are.

    Hopefully I’m wrong!

  168. LostJunkie says:

    Maybe I’ll have to go and re-watch the show, but I could’ve sworn that Juliet told Sawyer that the bomb DID go off, and that’s why he was surprised. After all, why would he be surprised if she told him that it hadn’t gone off–that’s exactly what they were under the assumption of.

    It’s late at night, and I could totally be wrong, but that’s what I thought happened.

  169. 2lost2tell says:

    I think the bomb did go off if for no other reason than that there is a parallel timeline seemingly representing the success of their plan. Also I think it’s important to remember Faraday’s variables. These could help explain why characters were missing from the plane and things have transpired differently in the other timeline. Another thing people are ignoring is why the time travel rules are in place. Whatever happened, happened exists because of the paradox that is created when a potential problem in the future causes an action in the past that prevents that specific future, preventing the problem causing the action to initially arise. The placement of an alternate timeline reflecting what seems to be the bomb exploding as well as floating the losties to the so-called main timeline where NOTHING has changed would therefor work entirely. Anyway this all seems to work out and of course could be completely off. On a side note I don’t think I’m going to like the new Others plot or if it does turn out that Sayid is Jacob. Things would seem all too convenient and it would just be nice to see Jacob’s death as something consistent.

  170. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="369990"]had to watch it again-Still can’t figure out what Juliet said to Sawyer, when she thought he was someone else-something about going dutch?

    I’m with PJ-calling that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body.[/quote]
    Juliet first said, we should go for coffee, then said, we can go Dutch. For those that may not be familiar with that expression, it means that when 2 or more people do something together, each person pays for their own expenses.

  171. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370027"]Me either really. Its frustrating unless you have it all figured out like Ben[/quote]
    LOL

  172. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370041"][quote comment="370040"][quote comment="370039"]I am watching D&C on Jimmy Kimmel. They were asked “Is John Locke possessed by the man in black?” And they answered “No”!! Huh?[/quote]

    Locke is dead on the beach. Thats how I understood it when Evil Locke was talking about Locke to Ben[/quote]

    Yeah, but what about evil locke? That’s still Locke’s body. Oh I am too confused.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    I may be wrong because I don’t fully understand everything that’s going on, but I believe the Locke we’ve been seeing is a manifestation of the smoke monster, similar to what we’ve seen in the past. For example, in late Season 5 when Ben went to be judged by the smoke monster, it took the form of Alex, who told Ben to do everything John Locke (i.e., the smoke monster) says. So it seems that the smoke monster doesn’t take over the bodies of dead people, it just takes on the appearance of a dead person.

    Of course, this brings up the question of, what is the smoke monster’s natural state of being? Is it in the form of the man-in-black we saw on the beach with Jacob? Or is it in the form of the smoke itself? Or something else that we haven’t seen yet?

  173. Sassafras says:

    The debris at the hatch was from the hatch – they showed the red stationary bike in the rubble (Sawyer threw it). May not have matched the hole they showed in previous seasons, but everything points to it being hatch debris and not construction debris.

  174. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370005"]Good interview on Kimmel with D and C. I know we shouldnt discuss the future here, but lets rethink our Jacob = Sayid theory.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Ben, how about this one? Sayid is inhabited by Richard? I think Flocke’s attack may have killed Richard because ‘Sayid’ woke up just after Richard went got knocked out. I think Richard’s ‘shackles’ were that he was ‘sentenced’ to work for the island forever by Jacob. It might explain why the temple-ites thought that the water didn’t work…it took longer than normal because they didn’t save Sayid…they saved Richard.

  175. Hammer says:

    More on loopholes and rules breaking:

    I think it’s deeper than we once thought. I think Ben was shocked at Alex’s death because Ben had taken her to temple and she, like Ben was protected by the ‘rules’. Ben was taken to temple and ended up with cancer. That wasn’t supposed to happen either. MIB wasn’t supposed to be able to kill Jacob. MIB has been ‘loopholing’ for longer than we thought.

  176. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="370027"]Me either really. Its frustrating unless you have it all figured out like Ben[/quote]

    Not anymore. Ben is a lost puppy now. He’s freaking out!

  177. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="370048"][quote comment="369990"]had to watch it again-Still can’t figure out what Juliet said to Sawyer, when she thought he was someone else-something about going dutch?

    I’m with PJ-calling that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body.[/quote]
    Juliet first said, we should go for coffee, then said, we can go Dutch. For those that may not be familiar with that expression, it means that when 2 or more people do something together, each person pays for their own expenses.[/quote]

    I think that’s the conversation that will happen at the end of the series… In some alternate universe, Sawyer and Juliet will finally meet off-island. There will be some sort of spark… Sawyer will suggest they have coffee and Juliet will suggest they go dutch. And off they will ride into the sunset to live (finally) happy lives together.

    I hope. I thought it was nice that Sawyer was allowed to have a proper goodbye with Juliet.

  178. LostGrrl says:

    I’m with the folks who think Sayid is now the man-in-white. Whether that means Jacob or Richard.

    It seems to me this series has always been about good vs. evil. White vs. black. (Un)Locke is now established as the MIB/smoke monster. He attacks (kills?) Richard and is presumably heading to the Temple to confront Jacob’s followers.

    Sayid, the former killer, is resurrected as the savior. The man in white. Is he Jacob or Richard? I’m of the opinion Sayid = Jacob. Jacob seems to have had a plan the whole time. Richard is simply a follower.

  179. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    My thought. If the bomb went off, then island’s powers would be destroyed and it sunk.

    So, ‘if’ the bomb went off, then Christian’s body got lost and Desmond disappeared off the plane and Charlie lived and Shannon stayed in Australia and Hugo is lucky and Jack was only given one extra bottle of booze instead of two and Rose was confident but Jack was nervous….why?

  180. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370055"][quote comment="370048"][quote comment="369990"]had to watch it again-Still can’t figure out what Juliet said to Sawyer, when she thought he was someone else-something about going dutch?

    I’m with PJ-calling that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body.[/quote]
    Juliet first said, we should go for coffee, then said, we can go Dutch. For those that may not be familiar with that expression, it means that when 2 or more people do something together, each person pays for their own expenses.[/quote]

    I think that’s the conversation that will happen at the end of the series… In some alternate universe, Sawyer and Juliet will finally meet off-island. There will be some sort of spark… Sawyer will suggest they have coffee and Juliet will suggest they go dutch. And off they will ride into the sunset to live (finally) happy lives together.

    I hope. I thought it was nice that Sawyer was allowed to have a proper goodbye with Juliet.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    That scene reminded me of Charlotte and Faraday. She was ‘flashing’ to a different time that Sawyer didn’t remember….yet.

  181. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370056"]I’m with the folks who think Sayid is now the man-in-white. Whether that means Jacob or Richard.

    It seems to me this series has always been about good vs. evil. White vs. black. (Un)Locke is now established as the MIB/smoke monster. He attacks (kills?) Richard and is presumably heading to the Temple to confront Jacob’s followers.

    Sayid, the former killer, is resurrected as the savior. The man in white. Is he Jacob or Richard? I’m of the opinion Sayid = Jacob. Jacob seems to have had a plan the whole time. Richard is simply a follower.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Yes about Sayid, I can’t remember the words, but he said something to Hugo about his past. Likely a hint.

  182. Ben says:

    Ben needed to go to sleep.
    I bet Locke has a twin brother and that is who NEW Locke is.

  183. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370060"]Ben needed to go to sleep.
    I bet Locke has a twin brother and that is who NEW Locke is.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Maybe so, circa “The Evil Twin”. But it seems to me that MIB/Smokey is now a shapeshifter of sorts. I think he was taken the form of Walt, Alex, Locke, ?????

  184. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370057"][quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    My thought. If the bomb went off, then island’s powers would be destroyed and it sunk.

    So, ‘if’ the bomb went off, then Christian’s body got lost and Desmond disappeared off the plane and Charlie lived and Shannon stayed in Australia and Hugo is lucky and Jack was only given one extra bottle of booze instead of two and Rose was confident but Jack was nervous….why?[/quote]
    ____________________________
    Good questions. And, if the bomb went off and the island’s powers were destroyed, wouldn’t Jacob also be destroyed? And if Jacob and the island were both destroyed, then wouldn’t Locke have died when he fell out the window? And, even if he did live, why would he have gone on the walkabout, being that the idea was put in his head by Abbaddon/Widmore, in an effort to ensure Locke goes to the island – if there’s no island, there’s no need for the walkabout, right?

  185. LostGrrl says:

    Good interview with Cuse and Lindelof:

    http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

    “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.”

    Hmmm…

  186. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370061"][quote comment="370060"]Ben needed to go to sleep.
    I bet Locke has a twin brother and that is who NEW Locke is.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Maybe so, circa “The Evil Twin”. But it seems to me that MIB/Smokey is now a shapeshifter of sorts. I think he was taken the form of Walt, Alex, Locke, ?????[/quote]
    _______________________
    That’s the other thing (well, one of the other things) I was trying to figure out – were we seeing MIB/Smokey when we saw Christian, Libby, Ana Lucia, Charlie?

    Throughout the series, whenever we’ve seen “the monster”, was it always the MIB? Because over the years, many of the monster’s actions seem to be in defense of Richard, Ben, Jacob, etc.

  187. JunaD says:

    Yup, I agree with Hammer and LostGrrl. I think the man in black and Jacob and can take the form of anyone who is dead. So is Jack’s father really the man in black?

  188. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370063"]Good interview with Cuse and Lindelof:

    http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

    “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.”

    Hmmm…[/quote]
    LOL That’s a great point about them being so self-centered.

    That article is very interesting, but for those of you who are really fanatical about avoiding spoilers, be aware that D&C give some partial answers/hints to some of the questions we’ve been discussing.

  189. Hammer says:

    Toeknee, I have been of the theory that there are/were two Smokey’s. Jacob the ‘judging’ one and MIB the ‘attacking’ one. It seemed odd that Ben could ‘summon’ smokey to protect the island…and I figured that was Jacob.

  190. Sheppard says:

    The MIB is the smokemonster who is now in the form of Flocke…Is it wrong to assume Jacob has other forms?

    Did anyone notice the shinning of a light when smokey got blocked by the small ash circle..cant help but think of that having something to do with the Sun Gods protection…..unfortunatley for dudeman this wasnt smokeys first rodeo and he just pulled an audible

    I dont think Richard is in the form of Sayid my guess is its just real Sayid…I have to think when Jacob touched them that it had some type of signifigance…then again…real Locke was touched and hes now dead…maybe he wont be if they bring him to the temple too..then wed have 3 Lockes….yikes!

    someone wrote that they all are getting back on the plane for various reasons…i like that idea…betcha Lapeidis is the pilot this time…
    if they just go about there lives ill be pissed…

    side egyptian mythology note…Apep (a demon of the underworld) was also known as ‘Opponent of Ra’, ‘Enemy of Ra’, ‘World Encircler’ and ‘Serpent of Rebirth’
    it was in the form of a giant watersnake whole only goal was to kill Ra…the island is underwater now…thats a stretch i know

  191. Mal says:

    I’m of the opinion that the bomb did go off and kick started two realities – the island is submerged under water, everyone lands in LA,

    and, the time travelers are whooshed back to the island they left, meaning nothing has changed for them or for the island. The debris of the Swan Station is the debris from Desmond turning the fail safe key… I don’t remember exaclty what the debris was, but there was a bike, there were other things that looked more like Swan Station booty than constructio site booty.

    Agree also that it doens’t make sense that their lives from 1977 to 2004 would follow almost the same path… but I think that is what we are supposed to accept.

  192. shellmay says:

    I looked and looked, but might have missed this post. When the Losties first got to the Temple, the woman (who was the stewardess) said they had been on the “FIRST plane” with her. Any ideas on what she meant by that???

  193. VicMonster says:

    first time poster – long time reader.

    theory: smoke monster/locke guy is lucifer. he wants to return to heaven where he was cast out. jacob’s job is/was to guard/babysit him.

    i agree with a former post that he now inhabits sayid’s body. that’s why they’re in big trouble if sayid dies. he’s on the inside of the temple now.

  194. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370067"]Toeknee, I have been of the theory that there are/were two Smokey’s. Jacob the ‘judging’ one and MIB the ‘attacking’ one. It seemed odd that Ben could ‘summon’ smokey to protect the island…and I figured that was Jacob.[/quote]
    I could see that as a possibility. But how does that tie in with the scenes where Mr Eko (S3) and Ben (S5) were judged? Did the good smokey judge Mr. Eko, and then the bad smokey appear as Yemi and then killed Mr. Eko? With Ben, did the good smokey judge Ben, then bad smokey turned up as Alex and told him to listen to Locke? I don’t know if the two smokeys would be working so closely together, most particularly in the scene with Ben.

  195. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370070"]I looked and looked, but might have missed this post. When the Losties first got to the Temple, the woman (who was the stewardess) said they had been on the “FIRST plane” with her. Any ideas on what she meant by that???[/quote]
    My thoughts were in comment 99

  196. Mal says:

    Also, the whole alternate universe and LA landing doesn’t make sense, because why is the bomb explosion the factor that changes everything? If we are to believe this alternate universe plot line, then why doesn’t Sawyer, Juliet, et al living for three years in 1977 change anything? Three years living in the past doesn’t change anything in the future? That’s hard to believe.

    Also, let’s not forget that Hurley wins the lottery by playing the Island numbers… which he wouldn’t have come across otherwise. But, alternate Hurley is “lucky” so I suppose we’re to believe he won using different numbers, then went to Sydney, not for answers, but to have a good time, and I suppose open his chicken chain in the outback.

    I think the writers are asking us to swallow a lot by accepting the alternate, LA landing plot… but accept it I shall and enjoy the series, I will.

  197. Enik says:

    Formerly dead characters are back: Artz, Boone, Charlie and even Carl (aka Froyo), albeit in a different context.

    Hugo Reyes looks like he’s gained weight.

    Haircuts make things confusing. Short here, long there, same when they should be different, different when should be the same.

    So what about Ben? His only friend now is the smoke monster. The monster confides in Ben: he just wants to go home. Perhaps Ben will somehow switch places with the monster by the end of the show. (Like Sith apprentice training in Star Wars!)

    “It worked!” is supposed to be a loose end.

    So do you think Sawyer will try to con Hugo’s lottery winnings?

    Sawyer cons, Kate runs. That’s what they do.

    Desmond is noticably there one minute and gone the next.

    Boone’s sister Shannon is not on the plane.

    Where’s Michael and Walt? (They should have taped this alternate time sequence years ago while the actor who plays Walt was still believably young.)

    Nothing is irreversible. But Walt is too old to use on the show.

    The whispers are back. It’s as if you hear them only in the context of the Others.

    Jin went from the bottom of his ESL class to flawless broadcaster-quality diction in less than five seasons. So the island can fix language deficiencies? No wonder Jacob speaks such fluent Korean!

    Best writing in the history of television. When the producers felt things were going adrift, they were able to course-correct.

    ABC cancelled all shows near and around Lost timeslots. Remember Invasion? Or how about The Nine? The catch-phrase for that show was “What happened in there?” We never found out. We are lucky Lost producers/writers were able to find a way to satisfy both the network and the audience.

    After Lost leaves the airways I will carve out the 7 from my TV. (7 is ABC in New York.)

  198. Mal says:

    “Intolost”, on post #117 mentioned something interesting – that in the Last Supper poster, Locke has the place of Jesus, Kate has the Mary Magdelane position, and Sayid is Judas…

    Maybe FLocke isn’t the bad one after all; he just wants to go home. If he is the good guy, then maybe he’s justified in killing off Jacob and his followers. Maybe they’re keeping him from doing his job properly.

    Let us not forget that the bad vs good paradox is a prominent theme in this series. The creators of this show do a good job of illustrating that bad and good are relative… Also, the pilot tells Sun he doesn’t believe Jacobs crew is “the good guys”…. he seems like an observant fellow.

    It’s a stretch, I know; it’s pretty much a given that Jacob is the good guy. It’s an interesting thought regardless.

  199. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370072"][quote comment="370067"]Toeknee, I have been of the theory that there are/were two Smokey’s. Jacob the ‘judging’ one and MIB the ‘attacking’ one. It seemed odd that Ben could ‘summon’ smokey to protect the island…and I figured that was Jacob.[/quote]
    I could see that as a possibility. But how does that tie in with the scenes where Mr Eko (S3) and Ben (S5) were judged?

    Did the good smokey judge Mr. Eko, and then the bad smokey appear as Yemi and then killed Mr. Eko? With Ben, did the good smokey judge Ben, then bad smokey turned up as Alex and told him to listen to Locke? I don’t know if the two smokeys would be working so closely together, most particularly in the scene with Ben.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    My thoughts are…good Smokey judged AND killed Eko…he didn’t repent.

    Bad smokey judged Bend AND used Alex’s likeness to trick Ben into working for him…he NEEDED Ben alive and working for him to complete the loophole.

  200. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370074"]Also, the whole alternate universe and LA landing doesn’t make sense, because why is the bomb explosion the factor that changes everything? If we are to believe this alternate universe plot line, then why doesn’t Sawyer, Juliet, et al living for three years in 1977 change anything? Three years living in the past doesn’t change anything in the future? That’s hard to believe.

    Also, let’s not forget that Hurley wins the lottery by playing the Island numbers… which he wouldn’t have come across otherwise. But, alternate Hurley is “lucky” so I suppose we’re to believe he won using different numbers, then went to Sydney, not for answers, but to have a good time, and I suppose open his chicken chain in the outback.

    I think the writers are asking us to swallow a lot by accepting the alternate, LA landing plot… but accept it I shall and enjoy the series, I will.[/quote]
    Another good point, about Hurley.

    The first time through the series I was willing to accept all the coincidences/intersecting plotlines of the various characters. And I am hoping that the writers will provide a reasonable explanation for why these characters ended up on the exact same flight again. But if this gets chalked up as one of those unexplainable mysteries, I will be disappointed. (because there were specific island-related reasons certain characters like Locke and Hurley were on the original flight 815, if there’s no island, there’s no reason for them to be on that flight in the alternate timeline)

  201. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370076"]“Intolost”, on post #117 mentioned something interesting – that in the Last Supper poster, Locke has the place of Jesus, Kate has the Mary Magdelane position, and Sayid is Judas…

    Maybe FLocke isn’t the bad one after all; he just wants to go home. If he is the good guy, then maybe he’s justified in killing off Jacob and his followers. Maybe they’re keeping him from doing his job properly.

    Let us not forget that the bad vs good paradox is a prominent theme in this series. The creators of this show do a good job of illustrating that bad and good are relative… Also, the pilot tells Sun he doesn’t believe Jacobs crew is “the good guys”…. he seems like an observant fellow.

    It’s a stretch, I know; it’s pretty much a given that Jacob is the good guy. It’s an interesting thought regardless.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    I’m not ready to dismiss the possibility that MIB is the good one just yet. After all, the scene where they are wearing black and white, Jacob was eating a red fish…RED HERRING?

  202. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370078"][quote comment="370074"]

    Also, let’s not forget that Hurley wins the lottery by playing the Island numbers… which he wouldn’t have come across otherwise. But, alternate Hurley is “lucky” so I suppose we’re to believe he won using different numbers, then went to Sydney, not for answers, but to have a good time, and I suppose open his chicken chain in the outback.

    [/quote]
    Another good point, about Hurley.

    The first time through the series I was willing to accept all the coincidences/intersecting plotlines of the various characters. And I am hoping that the writers will provide a reasonable explanation for why these characters ended up on the exact same flight again. But if this gets chalked up as one of those unexplainable mysteries, I will be disappointed. (because there were specific island-related reasons certain characters like Locke and Hurley were on the original flight 815, if there’s no island, there’s no reason for them to be on that flight in the alternate timeline)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++
    But it’s NOT exactly the same. Shannon is not on the flight, there is a reason. Desmond IS on the flight, there is a reason. Christian’s body is NOT on the flight, there is a reason. Not to mention that even though many are on the flight, their attitudes are completely opposite from the first time.

  203. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370077"][quote comment="370072"][quote comment="370067"]Toeknee, I have been of the theory that there are/were two Smokey’s. Jacob the ‘judging’ one and MIB the ‘attacking’ one. It seemed odd that Ben could ‘summon’ smokey to protect the island…and I figured that was Jacob.[/quote]
    I could see that as a possibility. But how does that tie in with the scenes where Mr Eko (S3) and Ben (S5) were judged?

    Did the good smokey judge Mr. Eko, and then the bad smokey appear as Yemi and then killed Mr. Eko? With Ben, did the good smokey judge Ben, then bad smokey turned up as Alex and told him to listen to Locke? I don’t know if the two smokeys would be working so closely together, most particularly in the scene with Ben.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    My thoughts are…good Smokey judged AND killed Eko…he didn’t repent.

    Bad smokey judged Bend AND used Alex’s likeness to trick Ben into working for him…he NEEDED Ben alive and working for him to complete the loophole.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    This all makes sense and I do agree about that. It’s just somewhat different from your earlier comment (#189) about Jacob/good smokey judging and MIB/bad smokey killing, unless I was minsunderstanding. (not trying to be a jerk or critical of your comments, just trying to understand – my mind is still in a fog about this episode)

  204. Losty4Life says:

    [quote comment="369892"]Looking at the pic above…Is the blonde Claire? Does that mean she’s back in the story line? Also, can’t seem to figure out who the dark haired woman on the far left is. Can someone jog my memory? 1st time poster – long time reader. Love this blog!!![/quote]
    The blonde is Claire she is going to be in the new season, and the dark haired women on the far left is the girl from the second plane crash Ilana. She is like Richard she doesn’t age.

  205. Mal says:

    Enik:

    I think that Ben has really done some damage to himself/his legacy! He put himself in a corner and he knows it. I think he’ll still try to fight against Flocke and do the right thing, but he’s powerless now.

    I took “it worked” to mean that dead Juliette is able to see that their alternate selves never go to the island.

    I think Sawyer will try to con Hurley’s lottery winnings should he get the chance… the question is, will he try to sleep with him to do it?

    Desmond’s presence on the plane is a mystery… maybe he won the sailing race around the world, it ended in Sydney, and now he’s going back to LA to claim his prize and do promotional appearances.

    Shannon’s not on the plane because Maggie Grace turned down the offer to return to the show. This is a fact. (Also, she could be in the bathroom when we see Boone… there is that empty seat between him and Neil.)

    Jin’s good, is all.

    Speaking of languages, what language was the temple leader using?

  206. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370080"]
    But it’s NOT exactly the same. Shannon is not on the flight, there is a reason. Desmond IS on the flight, there is a reason. Christian’s body is NOT on the flight, there is a reason. Not to mention that even though many are on the flight, their attitudes are completely opposite from the first time.[/quote]

    Agreed and I am willing to go along with all of that. My particular concerns are Hurley and Locke. There were specific island-related reasons for them to be on the original flight 815. With no island, there is seemingly no reason for them to be on THAT specific flight. I realize there are 16 hours left within which the reasons can be given; and my point is that I hope that D&C DO provide reasons for Locke and Hurley being on the plane, and they don’t leave it as something we just have to accept.

  207. bolddeceiver says:

    The bomb went off in 1977 causing a chain reaction event with the island’s energy pocket. This event caused a split in time. In one reality the bomb went off and the reaction was so powerful that the island sunk. In another the bomb did not go off. I think the purpose of the two timelines is to show the importance of the island to our core characters. At the end of all this we are going to want to know if what the Oceanic survivors went through was worth the outcome. We are being shown what would have happened if the island never entered into their lives. I’m guessing it’s not good. I’m going to watch again now. Will probably have completely different theory afterwards. That’s why I love this show!

  208. HMR says:

    There are 2 separate timelines:

    1st Timeline: Losties in 1977: They stopped the Losties from crashing in the 2nd timeline then they “flashed” to 2007 (so it essentially “worked” as Julia stated but they didn’t die in this timeline since they flashed forward)

    2nd Timeline: Losties in 2004: Never crashed but some things did change from the first time around (mainly Des being there and Shannon not there)

  209. Sheppard says:

    He was eating a RED HERRING!!!

  210. Artemis says:

    [quote comment="369983"]“The book encountered in the Temple is “Fear and Trembling” by the philosopher Soren Kierkegaard.” – Lostpedia[/quote]

    New to the blog..love it….Every detail is important…. if you take a look at this philosopher he is noted as the father of existentialism—- and if you check out this wiki page it states that one of his main ideas was about taking a “leap of faith” and also the featured book in this episode is about Abraham and his faith –conflicting between the good and evil of taking his son’s life for the love of god.

    could that have anything to do with this enigma we are all literally LOST on????

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Trembling

  211. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370081"][quote comment="370077"][quote comment="370072"][quote comment="370067"][/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    My thoughts are…good Smokey judged AND killed Eko…he didn’t repent.

    Bad smokey judged Bend AND used Alex’s likeness to trick Ben into working for him…he NEEDED Ben alive and working for him to complete the loophole.[/quote]
    ____________________________
    This all makes sense and I do agree about that. It’s just somewhat different from your earlier comment (#189) about Jacob/good smokey judging and MIB/bad smokey killing, unless I was minsunderstanding. (not trying to be a jerk or critical of your comments, just trying to understand – my mind is still in a fog about this episode)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Yeah, I didn’t explain it well enough in 189, my bad.

  212. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370083"]Enik:

    Shannon’s not on the plane because Maggie Grace turned down the offer to return to the show. This is a fact. (Also, she could be in the bathroom when we see Boone… there is that empty seat between him and Neil.)

    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Actually, Boone said she decided to stay in her “bad relationship” in Australia, that will be as significant as the fact the Des is ON the flight.

  213. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370066"]That article is very interesting, but for those of you who are really fanatical about avoiding spoilers, be aware that D&C give some partial answers/hints to some of the questions we’ve been discussing.[/quote]

    Thanks for the warning, Toeknee.

    : ) P

  214. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370084"][quote comment="370080"]
    But it’s NOT exactly the same. Shannon is not on the flight, there is a reason. Desmond IS on the flight, there is a reason. Christian’s body is NOT on the flight, there is a reason. Not to mention that even though many are on the flight, their attitudes are completely opposite from the first time.[/quote]

    Agreed and I am willing to go along with all of that. My particular concerns are Hurley and Locke. There were specific island-related reasons for them to be on the original flight 815. With no island, there is seemingly no reason for them to be on THAT specific flight. I realize there are 16 hours left within which the reasons can be given; and my point is that I hope that D&C DO provide reasons for Locke and Hurley being on the plane, and they don’t leave it as something we just have to accept.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Fair enough.

  215. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370075"]Formerly dead characters are back: Artz, Boone, Charlie and even Carl (aka Froyo), albeit in a different context[/quote]

    Are you sure you don’t mean Neil (aka Frogurt)? Carl was an Other and Alex’s boyfriend. I don’t remember seeing him on the plane.

    : ) P

  216. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370085"]The bomb went off in 1977 causing a chain reaction event with the island’s energy pocket. This event caused a split in time. In one reality the bomb went off and the reaction was so powerful that the island sunk. In another the bomb did not go off. I think the purpose of the two timelines is to show the importance of the island to our core characters. At the end of all this we are going to want to know if what the Oceanic survivors went through was worth the outcome. We are being shown what would have happened if the island never entered into their lives. I’m guessing it’s not good. I’m going to watch again now. Will probably have completely different theory afterwards. That’s why I love this show![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I am leaning very much towards this idea of the bomb both went off AND didn’t go off.

  217. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370094"]
    I am leaning very much towards this idea of the bomb both went off AND didn’t go off.[/quote]

    Agreed. Good to see you, Hammer.

    : ) P

  218. LINS says:

    This is probably a stupid question, but when Juliet fell down the hatch hole, it appeared to be a very very long fall…and then Sawyer crawled down like, what, 10 feet, and she was right there…can someone explain that one to me?

  219. Enik says:

    Mal:
    The leader at the temple was speaking Japanese. He doesn’t like the taste of English on his tongue.

    That’s a strange story-telling device. The character speaks a different language, perhaps to reveal his background, but there is seemingly no other person of that culture around. And yet, everyone else seems to understand.

    (I think I saw him disembark from flight 815 in other time line.)

  220. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    i’m in the camp that believes the bomb DID go off; triggering a time flash.
    and the reason the drill/swan stuff is still there with the later/failsafe-key-turning dubris is because juliet was somehow TOUCHING the drill stuff.
    didn’t daniel say that the things they were touching would move with them in time? that’s why he always had his journal; why the rope at the well was still there when sawyer was trying to pull locke up.

    also, when juliet said the bomb didn’t go off, i think she was referring to when jack dropped it. she told sawyer she made it go off, and that upset him.

  221. Hammer says:

    Thanks PJ, we had an epic battle for our ONLY laptop. Wife won cause she needed to finish a presentation….DANG!!

  222. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370096"]This is probably a stupid question, but when Juliet fell down the hatch hole, it appeared to be a very very long fall…and then Sawyer crawled down like, what, 10 feet, and she was right there…can someone explain that one to me?[/quote]

    I thought the same thing. Can’t explain it. That part really doesn’t fit either theory (bomb exploded and that is construction detritus, or bomb didn’t explode and that is hatch debris). Is there a THIRD theory perhaps?

    : ) P

  223. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370090"][quote comment="370083"]Enik:

    Shannon’s not on the plane because Maggie Grace turned down the offer to return to the show. This is a fact. (Also, she could be in the bathroom when we see Boone… there is that empty seat between him and Neil.)

    [/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Actually, Boone said she decided to stay in her “bad relationship” in Australia, that will be as significant as the fact the Des is ON the flight.[/quote]

    Ahhh… I didn’t catch that he said she decided to stay… I guess that can be chalked up to her old Aussie lover not taking Boone’s money though, rather than her deciding to stay…

    I don’t think this is very significant though, as in I don’t think this change had anything to do with the island. The writers just needed to explain away her nonexistence, because Maggie Grace did indeed refuse to come back to the show.

    As for Desmond being on the plane, that is significant… I wonder if maybe they will explain that his sailboating race around the world would have ended in Sydney (he of course would not have crashed on the island this time around). The race seemed to have taken off from LA, so maybe he has to go back there after the race is over.

  224. Liz says:

    First time reader

    I’ve found your discussion Very interesting. My impression about MIB vs. MIW has always been a bit different (maybe you have talked about this before).

    I’ve never considered either of them as being innately good or innately bad. Just that they have lived a LONG time together and that their separate approaches to a joint mission on the island (whatever that may turn out to be) has developed into a fued. Jacob=hands on meddling in lives, Esau=hands off do only what you must

    Esau has decided to start using the lost ones to finally be rid of jacob so the island can be run the “right” way once and for all.

    My take, wondering what you think

    (Also, very interested in finding out what happened to claire)

  225. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370100"][quote comment="370096"]This is probably a stupid question, but when Juliet fell down the hatch hole, it appeared to be a very very long fall…and then Sawyer crawled down like, what, 10 feet, and she was right there…can someone explain that one to me?[/quote]

    I thought the same thing. Can’t explain it. That part really doesn’t fit either theory (bomb exploded and that is construction detritus, or bomb didn’t explode and that is hatch debris). Is there a THIRD theory perhaps?

    : ) P[/quote]

    That’s a good point… not only did he not crawl very far “down”, but he also had to travel laterally… that doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    And why was Kate in a tree??

  226. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370102"]First time reader…

    Esau has decided to start using the lost ones to finally be rid of jacob so the island can be run the “right” way once and for all.

    My take, wondering what you think

    ([/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Welcome….

    Actually, he said he was doing it because he “wanted to go home”.

  227. Cherry-Miss.Awesome says:

    Wow what a premiere. I absolutely enjoyed it. I enjoyed the moments that mirrored many moments of past seasons. And how john Locke from the earlier seasons gave really great advice to the Losties that could apply to now . The moment that i must say i enjoyed was the dunking of sayid in the water. I believe that the scene symbolized baptism in full submersion of water . I was steered this way because Sayid asked hurley “what do you think will happen to me?” referring to the afterlife because he knew at that moment the number of individuals he murdered and tortured and i think he was repentant and jacob knew this so he sent him to be dunked in the holy water as a way of him cleansing himself from his sins. and being reborn idk. When sayid was “dead” and jack was giving him CPR it was very reminiscent of jack giving Charlie CPR when Ethan strung him up and left him for dead . I was completely waiting for Jack to give a full throttle punch to sayid’s chest like he did to charlie but to my suprise he did not. It looked like to me he gave up a beginning to a broken Jack?idk.

    Another occurrence that was so compelling to me was the moment that Jack and Desmond were talking on the plane. I was shocked that Jack did not remember him especially when he met Desmond on such a special night (( The Night HE Fixed Sarah)) another reason I was shocked was because when Jack first encountered Desmond on the island he recognized him spot on. This scene led me to believe that Jack may have chose to save Shannon’s father instead of Sarah which means he never was stressed out enough to do the “tour de stade” which he tried to outrun Desmond in meaning he never met des.and des this time did not say see you in another life brotha.

    Another moment that I enjoyed was the interaction between Locke and Jack. The moment gave me sheer chills – with the jack lost his dad again thing and john lost his knives again thing-But the moment that gave me the most chills was the moment Locke told jack his condition was inoperable I actually heard the word of Christian Sheppard “What he is looking for is a miracle.” And I immediately thought of Angelo Busoni and wondered if that surgery worked out in the atl and that’s the reason jacks still believe that anything is possible. Which leads me to believe that maybe since jack might have not saved Sarah he married Busoni’s daughter and they are the couple in LA who want to adopt the bay idk most likely not but it wooouuuulddd be cool . that’s my 2 cents and Im soooo happy to be back reading this blog.

  228. Enik says:

    I’m glad you caught that! Frogurt not Froyo. I noticed a familiar face lining up for the taxi behind Hugo when Kate came running through. So it was Neil, then. That’s sounds right. I’ll have to go back and check.

    [quote comment="370093"][quote comment="370075"]Formerly dead characters are back: Artz, Boone, Charlie and even Carl (aka Froyo), albeit in a different context[/quote]

    Are you sure you don’t mean Neil (aka Frogurt)? Carl was an Other and Alex’s boyfriend. I don’t remember seeing him on the plane.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Formerly dead characters are back: Artz, Boone, Charlie and even Carl (aka Froyo), albeit in a different context.

    Hugo Reyes looks like he’s gained weight.

    Haircuts make things confusing. Short here, long there, same when they should be different, different when should be the same.

    So what about Ben? His only friend now is the smoke monster. The monster confides in Ben: he just wants to go home. Perhaps Ben will somehow switch places with the monster by the end of the show. (Like Sith apprentice training in Star Wars!)

    “It worked!” is supposed to be a loose end.

    So do you think Sawyer will try to con Hugo’s lottery winnings?

    Sawyer cons, Kate runs. That’s what they do.

    Desmond is noticably there one minute and gone the next.

    Boone’s sister Shannon is not on the plane.

    Where’s Michael and Walt? (They should have taped this alternate time sequence years ago while the actor who plays Walt was still believably young.)

    Nothing is irreversible. But Walt is too old to use on the show.

    The whispers are back. It’s as if you hear them only in the context of the Others.

    Jin went from the bottom of his ESL class to flawless broadcaster-quality diction in less than five seasons. So the island can fix language deficiencies? No wonder Jacob speaks such fluent Korean!

    Best writing in the history of television. When the producers felt things were going adrift, they were able to course-correct.

    ABC cancelled all shows near and around Lost timeslots. Remember Invasion? Or how about The Nine? The catch-phrase for that show was “What happened in there?” We never found out. We are lucky Lost producers/writers were able to find a way to satisfy both the network and the audience.

    After Lost leaves the airways I will carve out the 7 from my TV. (7 is ABC in New York.)

  229. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370103"][quote comment="370100"][quote comment="370096"]This is probably a stupid question, but when Juliet fell down the hatch hole, it appeared to be a very very long fall…and then Sawyer crawled down like, what, 10 feet, and she was right there…can someone explain that one to me?[/quote]

    I thought the same thing. Can’t explain it. That part really doesn’t fit either theory (bomb exploded and that is construction detritus, or bomb didn’t explode and that is hatch debris). Is there a THIRD theory perhaps?

    : ) P[/quote]

    That’s a good point… not only did he not crawl very far “down”, but he also had to travel laterally… that doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    And why was Kate in a tree??[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    My guess is it was just editing for time, why show him crawl all the way down?

    Kate was in a tree for same reason Des was thrown in the jungle when he turned the key. My question (for selfish reasons) is why wasn’t she naked like Des. LOL

  230. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370101"]

    As for Desmond being on the plane, that is significant… I wonder if maybe they will explain that his sailboating race around the world would have ended in Sydney (he of course would not have crashed on the island this time around). The race seemed to have taken off from LA, so maybe he has to go back there after the race is over.[/quote]
    I don’t know if there would have been an around-the-world boat race in the alternate timeline. The race was sponsored by Widmore, and I thought it was understood that the reason he did that was so he could find the island. But in this alternate timeline, there is no island to find, so there’s no need for the boat race. Des could be on the plane for some other reason, but like I said earlier about Hurley and Locke, I hope D&C tell us what that reason is.

  231. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370107"]

    Kate was in a tree for same reason Des was thrown in the jungle when he turned the key. My question (for selfish reasons) is why wasn’t she naked like Des. LOL[/quote]
    With any luck, that will be one of the deleted scenes on the Season 6 DVD

  232. xboxkiller says:

    cool, it’s finally here

  233. Liz says:

    [quote comment="370104"][quote comment="370102"]First time reader…

    Esau has decided to start using the lost ones to finally be rid of jacob so the island can be run the “right” way once and for all.

    My take, wondering what you think

    ([/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Welcome….

    Actually, he said he was doing it because he “wanted to go home”.[/quote]

    No, what he said was what he wanted most was to go home, unlike Locke. I think its safe to assume that if he wanted to go home, and he’s been there so long, he can’t leave. Like perhaps they are trapped or assigned there.

  234. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="369994"]I will say this with convection one more time….THE BOMB DID NOT GO OFF, THE ISLAND MOVED.[/quote]

    *********
    I agree with this. Jin somewhat confirmed this when he told Hurly, bright light, the sound and the headache…they flashed…not the bomb! I think Juliette was burried under the current debris caused by Desmond! The bomb did not go off and that is why the other DI people lived…

  235. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    i’m not gonna waste too much time on the flash-sideways scenario…it seems to be a big what-IF. it will only be interesting to see what changes and what is inevitable.
    …do not mistake coincidence for fate…
    but for now, it kinda seems like plot filler to me.

    when the Lockeness Monster said he wanted to go home,
    what if he meant to the Temple?
    i mean…those glyphs and all that other temple-action make me think he lives there.

  236. Duke says:

    [quote comment="369947"][quote comment="369941"]

    Was anyone else thrown by the John Lennon/Charles Manson lookalike at the temple? Given that Jeremy Davies played Charles Manson in a movie, I found it mildly disconcerting!

    : ) P[/quote]
    LOL no way! I was glad to see that guy – he was in HBO’s Deadwood series. (John Hawkes is the actor’s name)

    (Other Lost charachters played by Deadwood alumni: Picket’s wife, whom Sun kills, and Juliet’s sister Rachel)[/quote]

    Also the man in black was on deadwood

  237. FrankS says:

    I’m curious to understand why everyone thinks that detonation of Jughead would destroy the island? Farraday said that he needed to destroy the electromagnetic energy that Dharma folks would tap into. And to do so, he’d detonate a hydrogen bomb. Couldn’t the detonation of the nuke and the electromagnetism NEUTRALIZE each other, not destroying the island but also catapulting losties to present day (as it seems it did?)

  238. Noodle22 says:

    So my question/comment is… is there body jumping going on? Locke said to Jack in the hospital “your fathers body is gone, but he is not” Then on the flip side locke has taken shape of the smoke monster? Did I understand this all correctly? I need to watch my DVR again… lol

  239. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370046"]Maybe I’ll have to go and re-watch the show, but I could’ve sworn that Juliet told Sawyer that the bomb DID go off, and that’s why he was surprised. After all, why would he be surprised if she told him that it hadn’t gone off–that’s exactly what they were under the assumption of.

    It’s late at night, and I could totally be wrong, but that’s what I thought happened.[/quote]
    *******************

    Miles said “it worked” for her after she was burried…but WHAT worked?

  240. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370112"][quote comment="370104"][quote comment="370102"]First time reader…

    Esau has decided to start using the lost ones to finally be rid of jacob so the island can be run the “right” way once and for all.

    My take, wondering what you think

    ([/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Welcome….

    Actually, he said he was doing it because he “wanted to go home”.[/quote]

    No, what he said was what he wanted most was to go home, unlike Locke. I think its safe to assume that if he wanted to go home, and he’s been there so long, he can’t leave. Like perhaps they are trapped or assigned there.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Okay, symantics here, but he didn’t say he wanted it “most”. His response to Ben’s question, “What do you want?” He said “Well that’s the great irony here Ben, because, I want the one thing that John Locke didn’t. I want to go HOME.”

    So it’s just MY interpretation, but I am assuming at this point that his motivations for what he’s doing is just that.

  241. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370117"]i’m not gonna waste too much time on the flash-sideways scenario…it seems to be a big what-IF. it will only be interesting to see what changes and what is inevitable.
    …do not mistake coincidence for fate…
    but for now, it kinda seems like plot filler to me.

    when the Lockeness Monster said he wanted to go home,
    what if he meant to the Temple?
    i mean…those glyphs and all that other temple-action make me think he lives there.[/quote]

    Good point. And the temple dwellers seem to be determined to keep him out, what with their damage control operation / powder spreading that take place after they find out about Jacob.

  242. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="370117"]
    … Lockeness Monster…[/quote]

    LOL!

  243. TD says:

    what is the powder that they are spreading anyway?

  244. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370057"][quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    My thought. If the bomb went off, then island’s powers would be destroyed and it sunk.

    So, ‘if’ the bomb went off, then Christian’s body got lost and Desmond disappeared off the plane and Charlie lived and Shannon stayed in Australia and Hugo is lucky and Jack was only given one extra bottle of booze instead of two and Rose was confident but Jack was nervous….why?[/quote]
    ****************

    This is interesting…whatever happened happened…did NOT really happen…we caught all those differences as well. Why are they all so different? I did think it was interesting though how many of their paths still cross in the “alternate timeline” and Jack telling Locke “NOTHING is irreversible.”

  245. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370120"]So my question/comment is… is there body jumping going on? Locke said to Jack in the hospital “your fathers body is gone, but he is not” Then on the flip side locke has taken shape of the smoke monster? Did I understand this all correctly? I need to watch my DVR again… lol[/quote]

    What wisened, enlightened Locke meant was that no one can really know where Jack’s father’s ‘spirit’ is; the whereabouts of his body is irrelevant, because it is not his true essence.

    (Having an englightened Locke makes me wonder if he did go on the walkabout after all… because if he didn’t, he would likely still be a bitter cripple).

    As for the smoke monster/ Locke… it seems that the smoke monster can resemble dead people, not that it takes their place (Locke’s dead body still exists on the beach).

  246. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370125"]what is the powder that they are spreading anyway?[/quote]

    I thought it was ash.

  247. TD says:

    [quote comment="370127"][quote comment="370120"]So my question/comment is… is there body jumping going on? Locke said to Jack in the hospital “your fathers body is gone, but he is not” Then on the flip side locke has taken shape of the smoke monster? Did I understand this all correctly? I need to watch my DVR again… lol[/quote]

    What wisened, enlightened Locke meant was that no one can really know where Jack’s father’s ‘spirit’ is; the whereabouts of his body is irrelevant, because it is not his true essence.

    (Having an englightened Locke makes me wonder if he did go on the walkabout after all… because if he didn’t, he would likely still be a bitter cripple).

    As for the smoke monster/ Locke… it seems that the smoke monster can resemble dead people, not that it takes their place (Locke’s dead body still exists on the beach).[/quote]

    He still looked sad though…especially when he is getting off the plane….

  248. Noodle22 says:

    [quote comment="370127"][quote comment="370120"]So my question/comment is… is there body jumping going on? Locke said to Jack in the hospital “your fathers body is gone, but he is not” Then on the flip side locke has taken shape of the smoke monster? Did I understand this all correctly? I need to watch my DVR again… lol[/quote]

    What wisened, enlightened Locke meant was that no one can really know where Jack’s father’s ‘spirit’ is; the whereabouts of his body is irrelevant, because it is not his true essence.

    (Having an englightened Locke makes me wonder if he did go on the walkabout after all… because if he didn’t, he would likely still be a bitter cripple).

    As for the smoke monster/ Locke… it seems that the smoke monster can resemble dead people, not that it takes their place (Locke’s dead body still exists on the beach).[/quote]

    That is kinda what I was getting at… I was half a sleep after working 15 hours yesterday… I just need to re-watch it

  249. Mal says:

    He still looked sad though…especially when he is getting off the plane….[/quote]

    Good point… and he most likely didn’t go on the walkabout because if he did, he probably wouldn’t have been on the “same” flight. (Unless, in the alternate universe, the flight schedule is ten days behind)

  250. Kathy P says:

    I need to think this out more but I think the island is a prison. Jacob & MIB are some type of egyptian gods holding all these people. I think they are playing some kind of “game” with the people.

  251. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370132"] I think they are playing some kind of “game” with the people.[/quote]

    That is an interesting thought.

  252. TD says:

    above discussions have been about the character trait difference between the characters on the flight last night compared to their original personalities though- idk everything is a guess with this show! but i love it!

  253. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370126"][quote comment="370057"][quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    My thought. If the bomb went off, then island’s powers would be destroyed and it sunk.

    So, ‘if’ the bomb went off, then Christian’s body got lost and Desmond disappeared off the plane and Charlie lived and Shannon stayed in Australia and Hugo is lucky and Jack was only given one extra bottle of booze instead of two and Rose was confident but Jack was nervous….why?[/quote]
    ****************

    This is interesting…whatever happened happened…did NOT really happen…we caught all those differences as well. Why are they all so different? I did think it was interesting though how many of their paths still cross in the “alternate timeline” and Jack telling Locke “NOTHING is irreversible.”[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I think the alt time line is kind of doing a course correction for WHH. In other words, Shannon wasn’t on the plane, but I bet we find out she died in Australia instead of the island. Remember Charlie was angry at Jack for saving him because he was supposed to die, I bet Charlie meets his end soon (again). I think the coffin is missing because if I remember correctly, when Jack found the coffin on the island, it was empty. The marshall still gets bashed in the head so Kate can escape. So just like earlier in the series, WHH is not EXACTLY the same, but the same results.

  254. wallyp says:

    My guess here is that the alternate LA X reality may end up being the real reality. Whatever that means exactly. I think they are both real, and the ending will decide how to bring the two ends together (the course correct…) It seems to me that there has always been seperate realitys existing on the show, since ep.1 when Jack woke up in the jungle—it obviously wasn’t his first time.

    The LA X timeline I figure will show that even though these people have never met, the island is still a part of their lives, and they are still connected by it. Whatever Happened still happened, it was never erased from time.

    One way or the other, the jughead action “worked” because Miles wouldn’t have heard it from Juliet if it wasn’t true. She didn’t know it either until she died.

    (possibly the LA X time line, which is in 2004 will end up uniting the losties somehow in LA, lifting the island from the ocean, and bringing them back to the island circa 2007… thats too far to stretch my mind now, but I do think that they will (alot of them anyway) be united in LA) …I bet after Charlie spends the night in a sober tank, he’ll be out on a street corner singing Wonderwall very soon :)

    And am I the only one who thinks the mandarin temple guy was pretty bad ass?

  255. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370128"][quote comment="370125"]what is the powder that they are spreading anyway?[/quote]

    I thought it was ash.[/quote]

    *******
    I think they have said it is ash as well…
    “ashes to ashes, dust to dust” = eternal life? Why does the ash protect?

  256. Hammer says:

    I can’t help but equate the alt time line folks with Bizarro from the Superman comics. Dopplegangers with opposite personalities emulating the people they duplicated.

  257. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370135"][quote comment="370126"][quote comment="370057"][quote comment="370017"]No body has answered my question :( Why is the island under water in the beginning?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    My thought. If the bomb went off, then island’s powers would be destroyed and it sunk.

    So, ‘if’ the bomb went off, then Christian’s body got lost and Desmond disappeared off the plane and Charlie lived and Shannon stayed in Australia and Hugo is lucky and Jack was only given one extra bottle of booze instead of two and Rose was confident but Jack was nervous….why?[/quote]
    ****************

    This is interesting…whatever happened happened…did NOT really happen…we caught all those differences as well. Why are they all so different? I did think it was interesting though how many of their paths still cross in the “alternate timeline” and Jack telling Locke “NOTHING is irreversible.”[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I think the alt time line is kind of doing a course correction for WHH. In other words, Shannon wasn’t on the plane, but I bet we find out she died in Australia instead of the island. Remember Charlie was angry at Jack for saving him because he was supposed to die, I bet Charlie meets his end soon (again). I think the coffin is missing because if I remember correctly, when Jack found the coffin on the island, it was empty. The marshall still gets bashed in the head so Kate can escape. So just like earlier in the series, WHH is not EXACTLY the same, but the same results.[/quote]

    *************
    I did think that about Charlie…he was always suppose to die. Jack saved him once on the island and now on the plane…but Charlie had SOOO many different times he “should” have died.

  258. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="369987"]If Richard Alpert was on the Black Rock ship in chains, he may have been there as a captured pirate. For the common pirate the next level of punishment after flogging was slavery. He may have been on his way to become someone’s cheap disposable labor. Perhaps he was “rescued” by Jacob and in exchange for his “eternal” servitude to Jacob, he was given “eternal” youth?[/quote]

    Or he might have been a prisoner- kind of a parallel to Kate being in chains.

  259. Miss lost says:

    In comment #226 I like the idea of the water being a “rebirth” of some sort. This is where they brought Ben and he was “saved.” (But at a cost)

    Even if some people are disappointed about some things on this show (and there will be some people) I love how much it makes us think and how many twists and turns there are…they do a great job of keeping us LOST!

  260. Spangler says:

    “I think that’s the conversation that will happen at the end of the series… In some alternate universe, Sawyer and Juliet will finally meet off-island. There will be some sort of spark… Sawyer will suggest they have coffee and Juliet will suggest they go dutch. And off they will ride into the sunset to live (finally) happy lives together.

    I hope. I thought it was nice that Sawyer was allowed to have a proper goodbye with Juliet.”

    I agree with ToeKnee. Thought the same thing and to take it a step further, I think Sayid has now experienced the same alternate-timeline crossover. More evidence will present itself through Miles and there will be a quest to terminate the “on-island” timeline.

    On a side note .. I love seeing the old characters together again. Especially Charlie and Claire. Hope to see Ana-Lucia, Michael, Eko, Nikki, Paulo, Michael, Walt, and Shannon again too.

  261. ICDeadppl says:

    The book the Hurley picks up in the cave is Søren Kierkegaard, crainte et tremblement “fear and trembling” in English

  262. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370021"][quote comment="370015"]If the bomb went off (and it didnt) that would not change the events leading up to 815. Michael and Walt would have been on board, as well as Shannon. Welcome to flashsideways.[/quote]

    You can believe what you want to about the bomb. But it exploding certainly COULD change the events leading up to 815. As I said in post 63, if the Incident didn’t happen, there are a LOT of things in 27 years that would change in the course of the world. Widmore might not have been banished; Desmond might not have met Penny; who knows how Michael and Walt’s lives might have been different. We didn’t see Eko, or Ana Lucia, or Libby either. We only saw Claire in the taxi (and we didn’t see her belly – she might not even be pregnant).

    And FWIW, just because we didn’t SEE Michael and Walt on the plane, doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Malcolm David Kelley is SIX years older than he was in the pilot, they couldn’t very well recreate his experience!

    : ) P[/quote]

    I agree. We see Sawyer telling Hurley he should not tell people he had won the lottery. What if he is being helpfull? He might not be a con-man this time around. If he was not given a pen by Jacob when he was a little boy after his parents funeral, he might not be the same guy.

    Locke may have gotten hurt in a different way, too. He could have really gone on the walk-about.

    Sun may realy not understand English.

    Eko may not be there, because if his brothers plane did not crash on the island and his brother came back, he might not have changed his life around.

    What I’m trying to get at is that we can’t assume that the people landing at LAX, and the people we have gotten to know on the island (their personalities and backgrounds) are the same.

  263. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="369986"]Regarding the Sayid is Jacob idea – imo, Jacob somehow imbued those he touched with his spirit or whatever, which I think will be his ‘loophole’. That’s why he think he needs them all to be alive.[/quote]

    ********************
    The fact that he “touched” them is important, imo. Interesting that he encountered them at different times though…Kate and James were kids, Sun and Jin getting married etc…and most encounters seemed to be at pretty pivotal times in their lives…did he “save” them so later they can somehow “save” him?

  264. Hammer says:

    The more I think about the attack on Alpert by MIB, the more I think the ‘rule change’ is MIB killing immortals. I think Alpert, Ben and yet to be proven Alex were made immortal via the temple. Ben’s surprise of Alex’s death and his own cancer seems more important than Widmore changing the rules. I believe Widmore when he said Ben killed that poor girl. Ben was falling into MIBs trap for some time and at this point, it seems like his actions are what enabled MIB to carry out his loophole.

  265. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370042"]Me too. IDK where that body came from, but its not the one laying on the beach :)

    Maybe Jacob will end up posessing Christian’s body, since its lost now.

    Christian is one of Jacob’s people. Not only did he say that he could speak for him, but he was in the cabin BEFORE the ash ring was broken.[/quote]

    But was it really Jacob in the cabin all this time, or was Jacob always at home in the foot of the statue and MIB was the actual inhabitant of the cabin? What if the circle of ash was used to keep MIB in there? Ilana said that Jacob had not lived in the cabin in a “very long time”, before burning the cabin down last season.

  266. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="370145"][quote comment="369986"]Regarding the Sayid is Jacob idea – imo, Jacob somehow imbued those he touched with his spirit or whatever, which I think will be his ‘loophole’. That’s why he think he needs them all to be alive.[/quote]

    ********************
    The fact that he “touched” them is important, imo. Interesting that he encountered them at different times though…Kate and James were kids, Sun and Jin getting married etc…and most encounters seemed to be at pretty pivotal times in their lives…did he “save” them so later they can somehow “save” him?[/quote]

    Do we think that Jacob went back in time to meet these people, or did he do it the first time around?

  267. RGS says:

    Good dialogue as per the norm. Lots of ideas some wacky to me, some making sense, as per the norm. I have vowed not to get too caught up trying to figure this out because in my mind last season’s finale, and now this opening has established that anything goes. Their storytelling style is still engaging although it has its frustrating moments, that stated, I’m all in.

    So I agree with bold’s 207 post in that the bomb going “off” triggered the two alternate time lines. 1 results in the plane scenes from last night, while the other is what we know it to be in present island. I think the clue that something actually did occur is Kate being flung into the tree, and not being able to hear clearly (evidencing a loud noise of some sort), and Juliette’s comments. This also results in the time shift. So in my mind, as soon as the bomb is going off it is simultaneously triggering the time shift.

    Another random thought is that what Flocke meant by referring to Richard being chained up, is Richard having the ability to be the “good” smoke monster because sometimes the smoke monster would have the roller coaster chain sound when it appeared. I think it did it when it was pulling Locke in too. That would explain why Richard doesn’t age. I’m 20% in on that theory.

    I do think there are at least two smoke monsters, and possibly three. Flocke, Jacob, & Richard.

    Do we think that the folks at the temple do not age as well? That would sorta debunk my Richard as a smoke monster, (well at least I’d hope it did).

    What was the little object that henchman picked up before Flocke-smokey killed him?

    One of my difficulties that I would have with the alt. timeline is that since bad things happened in “real” time line, what could possibly be so bad that would make or trigger Jack into believing they have to fix something? In other words what is added to the story in finding out, “oh Charlie actually died by jumping off the ledge, as opposed to drowning?”

    So alt. timeline has them continuing to cross paths, probably each thinking they know each other somehow until finally realizing it’s not the “real” reality?

  268. z says:

    I am wondering if all the inexplicable appearances to date (Libby postmortem, Christian, Alex (after she was gunned down), etc) have been caused by MIB. If so, he might have been – as someone pointed – exploiting the loophole for a long time to achieve his goal. Then, what we thought were acts of free will all along would appear to be MIB’s invisible hand… Perhaps he orchestrated every cooky thing to date to get to this point…
    I still can’t wrap my head around last night’s ep. And I am at work!

  269. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370146"]The more I think about the attack on Alpert by MIB, the more I think the ‘rule change’ is MIB killing immortals.

    I think Alpert, Ben and yet to be proven Alex were made immortal via the temple. Ben’s surprise of Alex’s death and his own cancer seems more important than Widmore changing the rules. I believe Widmore when he said Ben killed that poor girl. Ben was falling into MIBs trap for some time and at this point, it seems like his actions are what enabled MIB to carry out his loophole.[/quote]

    I was just thinking that (see last post). What if MIB was the one in the cabin? He “spoke” to Locke, because Locke was the “weak link”, the one whose faith could be shaken easily? The one who would be confused in the end? At the same time MIB could manipulate Ben by using Locke.

  270. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370144"][quote comment="370021"][quote comment="370015"]
    I agree. We see Sawyer telling Hurley he should not tell people he had won the lottery. What if he is being helpfull? He might not be a con-man this time around. If he was not given a pen by Jacob when he was a little boy after his parents funeral, he might not be the same guy.

    Locke may have gotten hurt in a different way, too. He could have really gone on the walk-about.

    Sun may realy not understand English.

    Eko may not be there, because if his brothers plane did not crash on the island and his brother came back, he might not have changed his life around.

    What I’m trying to get at is that we can’t assume that the people landing at LAX, and the people we have gotten to know on the island (their personalities and backgrounds) are the same.[/quote]

    I can’t figure this out so can anyone help me. I am wondering if anyone thinks that Sun and Jin were not married? They call her Ms. Paik and neither of them are wearing wedding rings. Maybe this was discussed already. Not that important but adds to the differences in characters now and then.

  271. Tasha says:

    Sorry about post 269. I must have quoted wrong. I wrote…

    I can’t figure this out so can anyone help me. I am wondering if anyone thinks that Sun and Jin were not married? They call her Ms. Paik and neither of them are wearing wedding rings. Maybe this was discussed already. Not that important but adds to the differences in characters now and then.

  272. Hammer says:

    Miraks, the only problem I see with that is that we saw MIB as smokey several times. If he was being kept in the cabin, he wouldn’t have been able to terrorize the Losties. The theme seems to be keeping MIB out, not in.

  273. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370153"]I can’t figure this out so can anyone help me. I am wondering if anyone thinks that Sun and Jin were not married? They call her Ms. Paik and neither of them are wearing wedding rings. Maybe this was discussed already. Not that important but adds to the differences in characters now and then.[/quote]

    I think you are right. I think it is significant. How? Not sure yet.

    : ) P

  274. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370155"][quote comment="370153"]I can’t figure this out so can anyone help me. I am wondering if anyone thinks that Sun and Jin were not married? They call her Ms. Paik and neither of them are wearing wedding rings. Maybe this was discussed already. Not that important but adds to the differences in characters now and then.[/quote]

    I think you are right. I think it is significant. How? Not sure yet.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Great catch Tasha, clearly says “Miss Paik”, neither Ms. (ambiguous) nor Mrs. Which wouldn’t matter ’cause her name would be Kwon.

  275. JJL says:

    [quote comment="370148"][quote comment="370145"][quote comment="369986"]Regarding the Sayid is Jacob idea – imo, Jacob somehow imbued those he touched with his spirit or whatever, which I think will be his ‘loophole’. That’s why he think he needs them all to be alive.[/quote]

    ********************
    The fact that he “touched” them is important, imo. Interesting that he encountered them at different times though…Kate and James were kids, Sun and Jin getting married etc…and most encounters seemed to be at pretty pivotal times in their lives…did he “save” them so later they can somehow “save” him?[/quote]

    Do we think that Jacob went back in time to meet these people, or did he do it the first time around?[/quote]
    *********************

    I think Jacob went to these people during the normal course of their lives. The series constant references to backgammon seem to support this. The whole thing is getting really interested. Even in one of the first episodes Locke explains to Walt how backgammon is ‘the greatest and oldest game’ (played first in ancient Mesopotamia, in fact) and the references keep coming. (like the white and black stones/game pieces found on the dead bodies in season 1)

    anyway, the game is based on strategy and being able to plan ahead – which is why Jacob, i believe, saw the loophole the MIB was hoping to exploit and countered by going to touching these other people

  276. LINS says:

    [quote comment="370155"][quote comment="370153"]I can’t figure this out so can anyone help me. I am wondering if anyone thinks that Sun and Jin were not married? They call her Ms. Paik and neither of them are wearing wedding rings. Maybe this was discussed already. Not that important but adds to the differences in characters now and then.[/quote]

    I think you are right. I think it is significant. How? Not sure yet.

    : ) P[/quote]

    ******************
    Especially since Jacob was at their wedding and told them to never take each other for granted…

  277. LINS says:

    So Jacob’s last words were “they’re coming”…after last night, any thoughts on who “they” are?

  278. LINS says:

    [quote comment="370157"]anyway, the game is based on strategy and being able to plan ahead – which is why Jacob, i believe, saw the loophole the MIB was hoping to exploit and countered by going to touching these other people[/quote]

    I like this theory…when Jacob and Hurley shared a cab after Hurley got out of jail, he convinced him to look at the whole seeing dead people thing as a gift instead of a curse…in my opinion, this helped convince Hurley to get on flight 316…Jacob said it because he knew he would be killed soon and he would need to be able to give instructions to the Losties and the only way to do that would be through Hurley…?

  279. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370160"][quote comment="370157"]anyway, the game is based on strategy and being able to plan ahead – which is why Jacob, i believe, saw the loophole the MIB was hoping to exploit and countered by going to touching these other people[/quote]

    I like this theory…when Jacob and Hurley shared a cab after Hurley got out of jail, he convinced him to look at the whole seeing dead people thing as a gift instead of a curse…in my opinion, this helped convince Hurley to get on flight 316…Jacob said it because he knew he would be killed soon and he would need to be able to give instructions to the Losties and the only way to do that would be through Hurley…?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Yes Lins good point. I always thought Hugo was not crazy…he only THOUGHT he was.

  280. Miraks says:

    My head is buzzing. So there is definitely a connection between John 3:16 (For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life)and Jacob being killed by John. Between people living for a long time (Richard), and coming back to life (Sayid). I feel like the answer is just there out of reach- if you know what I mean.

  281. LostDamery says:

    Here is my quick 2 cents:
    1) With the event (Explosion or NOT), I believe the plane landing path is what is now reality. The island group are the flicker of a past event that will conclude with the island at the bottom of the ocean as seen in the plane landing reality thread and all of the island copies will die. anyone follow? That is why Desmond is on plane flying back from race…etc. etc.
    2) Sayid is Jacob and season 6 will be their fight to the end which slowly kills off the island losties and leaves the remaining plane landing thread as the lasting reality….till Locke has a heart attack and wakes up as Jacob….!Boom! Your brain is wrinkled right?

  282. Lola says:

    [quote comment="370055"][quote comment="370048"][quote comment="369990"]had to watch it again-Still can’t figure out what Juliet said to Sawyer, when she thought he was someone else-something about going dutch?

    I’m with PJ-calling that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body.[/quote]
    Juliet first said, we should go for coffee, then said, we can go Dutch. For those that may not be familiar with that expression, it means that when 2 or more people do something together, each person pays for their own expenses.[/quote]

    I think that’s the conversation that will happen at the end of the series… In some alternate universe, Sawyer and Juliet will finally meet off-island. There will be some sort of spark… Sawyer will suggest they have coffee and Juliet will suggest they go dutch. And off they will ride into the sunset to live (finally) happy lives together.

    I hope. I thought it was nice that Sawyer was allowed to have a proper goodbye with Juliet.[/quote]

    Good call Lost Grrl! And just for the record I knew what “going Dutch” meant, just couldn’t understand the coffee bit.

  283. NikkiV says:

    Someone else may have already brought up the fact that the episode was aired on February 2nd and the possible reasons for it. If you watched Jimmy Kimmel, Cuse and Lindeloff already said it was just a coincidence it was on Groundhog’s Day.

    Something else happened yesterday though: the Feast of the Presentation of Jesus at the Temple. This feast celebrates an early episode in the life of Jesus, and falls on or around Feb. 2nd.

    According to the gospel of Luke, Mary and Joseph took the baby Jesus to the Temple in Jerusalem forty days after his birth to complete Mary’s ritual purification after childbirth, and to perform the redemption of the firstborn, in obedience to the Law of Moses.

    Just something I thought of yesterday while I was getting ready to watch the season premiere. With all of the biblical references, I thought it interesting and potentially not-just-a-coincidence kinda clue.

  284. Lola says:

    [quote comment="369960"]If Dez had inploded the hatch 3yrs prior, then why is the metal from the drill on top?

    When they showed the imploded hatch when Dez ACTUALLY imploded it, it looked like just dirt.[/quote]

    I didn’t realize that they ever showed the Hatch post implosion. When that happened all I remember is Desmond woke up in the jungle (like Kate). Juliet definitely said it didn’t work…now if she meant the bomb or the purpose of the bomb, not quite sure.
    Last thing, Terry O’Quinn’s performance as the paralyzed Locke on the plane-outstanding! When he was the last one waiting to be helped into the chair…I actually felt the depression.

  285. Lola says:

    [quote comment="369977"]A few closing thoughts before I head to bed:

    Great bedside manner by Hurley early in the episode – “oh god this is gross”

    Interesting to see Hurley being more assertive overall in this episode. I like it

    More great acting by Michael Emerson playing Ben as scared, truly scared, for the first time.

    When Cindy said something like “they were on the first plane, with me”, at first I thought that meant she/they were aware of a second timeline with the second version of OA815. But in hindsight, knowing that the time of that scene was “Island Present”, I believe she was referring to flight 316[/quote]

    Cindy did say “on flight 815″…

    can we discuss Nightline? I didn’t see it-what happened?

  286. Laura says:

    [quote comment="370074"]Also, let’s not forget that Hurley wins the lottery by playing the Island numbers… which he wouldn’t have come across otherwise. But, alternate Hurley is “lucky” so I suppose we’re to believe he won using different numbers, then went to Sydney, not for answers, but to have a good time, and I suppose open his chicken chain in the outback.[/quote]

    I believe Hurley got his numbers while in a mental institution, not from the island. He was frightened when the numbers turned up on the island.

  287. Enik says:

    What about the bleeding/blemish Jack discovered on his neck while in the bathroom? Another loose end or something worth pondering?

  288. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370168"][quote comment="370074"]Also, let’s not forget that Hurley wins the lottery by playing the Island numbers… which he wouldn’t have come across otherwise. But, alternate Hurley is “lucky” so I suppose we’re to believe he won using different numbers, then went to Sydney, not for answers, but to have a good time, and I suppose open his chicken chain in the outback.[/quote]

    I believe Hurley got his numbers while in a mental institution, not from the island. He was frightened when the numbers turned up on the island.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Well yes, but the numbers got TO the mental institution BECAUSE of the island. A follow patient heard the numbers being broadcast from the island while he was working a listening station. He eventually ended up at the mental hospital and repeated the numbers as Hugo overhead him.

  289. larry and stan says:

    Thought, if the bomb hadn’t gone off, wouldn’t it have still been lying next to Juliet?

  290. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370169"]What about the bleeding/blemish Jack discovered on his neck while in the bathroom? Another loose end or something worth pondering?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Something worth putting in your back pocket. It will be important, but at this point I don’t think we could know why.

  291. JJL says:

    [quote comment="370172"][quote comment="370169"]What about the bleeding/blemish Jack discovered on his neck while in the bathroom? Another loose end or something worth pondering?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Something worth putting in your back pocket. It will be important, but at this point I don’t think we could know why.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++=

    I thought that was interesting too, but it’s probably impossible to surmise what it means at this point. I’m really interested to see how the alternate reality factors into the on-island one. This has probably been addressed before, but I’m really interested in the fact that details of people’s lives are different aside from what would have been changed by not crashing on the island.

  292. Laura says:

    [quote comment="370170"]
    Well yes, but the numbers got TO the mental institution BECAUSE of the island. A follow patient heard the numbers being broadcast from the island while he was working a listening station. He eventually ended up at the mental hospital and repeated the numbers as Hugo overhead him.[/quote]

    True. In a parallel life the winning lottery numbers could be from any where, or, not even the same numbers. Seems a “lucky” Hurley would never have been in a mental institution.

  293. JJL says:

    [quote comment="370173"][quote comment="370172"][quote comment="370169"]What about the bleeding/blemish Jack discovered on his neck while in the bathroom? Another loose end or something worth pondering?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Something worth putting in your back pocket. It will be important, but at this point I don’t think we could know why.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++=

    I thought that was interesting too, but it’s probably impossible to surmise what it means at this point. I’m really interested to see how the alternate reality factors into the on-island one. This has probably been addressed before, but I’m really interested in the fact that details of people’s lives are different aside from what would have been changed by not crashing on the island.[/quote]

    I guess it’s telling us that the island (or at least the people on it) impacted the course of their lives all along and now, since it was at the bottom of the ocean, it didn’t have the opportunity to do so..

  294. Shadow says:

    So, what about all of our past theories of a time loop? Does that still apply now that there is an alternate time line? Also, last season we believed in consciousnesses being able to travel and that’s how MIB came to occupy Locke’s body. Is that idea out the window too, now that we know its just Smokey taking on the form of John Locke and not actually occupying his body? Third question, why did Richard tell Sun last season that he knew the people in the picture (our losties) from 1977 because he watched them all die?
    ok, enough questions for now…just wondering what you all think.

  295. dharmagirl says:

    [quote comment="370157"][quote comment="370148"][quote comment="370145"][quote comment="369986"]Regarding the Sayid is Jacob idea – imo, Jacob somehow imbued those he touched with his spirit or whatever, which I think will be his ‘loophole’. That’s why he think he needs them all to be alive.[/quote]

    ********************
    The fact that he “touched” them is important, imo. Interesting that he encountered them at different times though…Kate and James were kids, Sun and Jin getting married etc…and most encounters seemed to be at pretty pivotal times in their lives…did he “save” them so later they can somehow “save” him?[/quote]

    Do we think that Jacob went back in time to meet these people, or did he do it the first time around?[/quote]
    *********************

    I think Jacob went to these people during the normal course of their lives. The series constant references to backgammon seem to support this. The whole thing is getting really interested. Even in one of the first episodes Locke explains to Walt how backgammon is ‘the greatest and oldest game’ (played first in ancient Mesopotamia, in fact) and the references keep coming. (like the white and black stones/game pieces found on the dead bodies in season 1)

    anyway, the game is based on strategy and being able to plan ahead – which is why Jacob, i believe, saw the loophole the MIB was hoping to exploit and countered by going to touching these other people[/quote]

    First time poster…I’ve enjoyed reading the posts…

    Regarding the game…I’ve often thought a game of chess (vs backgammon) was being played…first season I thought it was Locke as one King and Jack or Mr Ecko as the other…now I see Jacob and Richard as the 2 kings…and everyone else as their rooks, knights, and pawns,etc. I’m probably wrong here, but I thought it was a game of chess that Locke was teaching Walt to play that first season?

  296. JJL says:

    [quote comment="370177"][quote comment="370157"][quote comment="370148"][quote comment="370145"][quote comment="369986"]Regarding the Sayid is Jacob idea – imo, Jacob somehow imbued those he touched with his spirit or whatever, which I think will be his ‘loophole’. That’s why he think he needs them all to be alive.[/quote]

    ********************
    The fact that he “touched” them is important, imo. Interesting that he encountered them at different times though…Kate and James were kids, Sun and Jin getting married etc…and most encounters seemed to be at pretty pivotal times in their lives…did he “save” them so later they can somehow “save” him?[/quote]

    Do we think that Jacob went back in time to meet these people, or did he do it the first time around?[/quote]
    *********************

    I think Jacob went to these people during the normal course of their lives. The series constant references to backgammon seem to support this. The whole thing is getting really interested. Even in one of the first episodes Locke explains to Walt how backgammon is ‘the greatest and oldest game’ (played first in ancient Mesopotamia, in fact) and the references keep coming. (like the white and black stones/game pieces found on the dead bodies in season 1)

    anyway, the game is based on strategy and being able to plan ahead – which is why Jacob, i believe, saw the loophole the MIB was hoping to exploit and countered by going to touching these other people[/quote]

    First time poster…I’ve enjoyed reading the posts…

    Regarding the game…I’ve often thought a game of chess (vs backgammon) was being played…first season I thought it was Locke as one King and Jack or Mr Ecko as the other…now I see Jacob and Richard as the 2 kings…and everyone else as their rooks, knights, and pawns,etc. I’m probably wrong here, but I thought it was a game of chess that Locke was teaching Walt to play that first season?[/quote]

    It was definitely backgammon (I was just re-watching the series to see how some of the initial mysteries foreshadowed what we’re seeing now) and there have been tons of references either to that game, which is two-sided and takes a lot of planning, or to the inherent duality of things (faith v. science, good v. evil, black v. white, etc.)

    It almost seems to me that Jacob has been making the MIB play this game with him in order to prove a point. It seems as though Jacob is trying to prove something about the human condition and choice whereas the MIB seems to be set in his view on the subject. It also seems to me that this game is taking place against the MIB’s will. could it be that Jacob has forced to to stay on the island (instead of ‘going home’) to play this game in order to prove a point that the MIB thinks is a lost cause?

  297. Pterradon says:

    Jughead had a radiation leak, right? So instead of going off when Juliet hit it, they flashed forward leaving the bomb as is. Maybe the leak is what is causing the slow build up of the electromagnetic properties that has to be released every 108 minutes. Then when Desmond turned the key, he actually detonated the bomb. Unlike the alternate reality, this time the substructure of the island was not destroyed due to the weakening of the bomb after years of leakage. Maybe?

  298. Liz says:

    In the alternate timeline, the reason there is no island anymore is b/c of the 815 passengers, right? Does that mean they still have to go to the island to do that? The alternate timeline wouldn’t be possible without them being on the island in 77, right? I would love to hear what people think, as I am very confused. I really think the two timelines should meet up somehow, but I am not really seeing how its possible.

  299. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370180"]In the alternate timeline, the reason there is no island anymore is b/c of the 815 passengers, right? Does that mean they still have to go to the island to do that? The alternate timeline wouldn’t be possible without them being on the island in 77, right? I would love to hear what people think, as I am very confused. I really think the two timelines should meet up somehow, but I am not really seeing how its possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I don’t know how, but I think they will line up because the thought of LOST having two endings is not appealing to me.

  300. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370157"][quote comment="370148"][quote comment="370145"][quote comment="369986"]Regarding the Sayid is Jacob idea – imo, Jacob somehow imbued those he touched with his spirit or whatever, which I think will be his ‘loophole’. That’s why he think he needs them all to be alive.[/quote]

    ********************
    The fact that he “touched” them is important, imo. Interesting that he encountered them at different times though…Kate and James were kids, Sun and Jin getting married etc…and most encounters seemed to be at pretty pivotal times in their lives…did he “save” them so later they can somehow “save” him?[/quote]

    Do we think that Jacob went back in time to meet these people, or did he do it the first time around?[/quote]
    *********************

    I think Jacob went to these people during the normal course of their lives. The series constant references to backgammon seem to support this. The whole thing is getting really interested. Even in one of the first episodes Locke explains to Walt how backgammon is ‘the greatest and oldest game’ (played first in ancient Mesopotamia, in fact) and the references keep coming. (like the white and black stones/game pieces found on the dead bodies in season 1)

    anyway, the game is based on strategy and being able to plan ahead – which is why Jacob, i believe, saw the loophole the MIB was hoping to exploit and countered by going to touching these other people[/quote]

    *****
    I have been thinking alot about the same thing…in season 1 Locke makes it a BIG deal to tell Walt about backgammon and does emphasize the two pieces (black and white). You can have strategy for the game but then the variable of the roll of the dice…you can not predict that!
    In life are we all just pieces in a game? We can have strategies for life but their are always variables we cannot control.

    We all also have elements of good and bad within us.

    I know there are many great “mysteries” about Lost, but in the end I think it is the game of life and how some way or another we are all conected (how often do we say “gee it’s a small world”)and how good and evil exist in all of us and that our choices can ultimately change our course. We all roll the dice and hope it is the number we need.

  301. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="370181"][quote comment="370180"]In the alternate timeline, the reason there is no island anymore is b/c of the 815 passengers, right? Does that mean they still have to go to the island to do that? The alternate timeline wouldn’t be possible without them being on the island in 77, right? I would love to hear what people think, as I am very confused. I really think the two timelines should meet up somehow, but I am not really seeing how its possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I don’t know how, but I think they will line up because the thought of LOST having two endings is not appealing to me.[/quote]

    No way! It only ends once! Jacob said so.

  302. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370183"][quote comment="370181"][quote comment="370180"]In the alternate timeline, the reason there is no island anymore is b/c of the 815 passengers, right? Does that mean they still have to go to the island to do that? The alternate timeline wouldn’t be possible without them being on the island in 77, right? I would love to hear what people think, as I am very confused. I really think the two timelines should meet up somehow, but I am not really seeing how its possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I don’t know how, but I think they will line up because the thought of LOST having two endings is not appealing to me.[/quote]

    No way! It only ends once! Jacob said so.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Well, he did say that before the rules got changed and the loophole happened. ;)

  303. Jamie says:

    [quote comment="370176"] why did Richard tell Sun last season that he knew the people in the picture (our losties) from 1977 because he watched them all die?[/quote]

    Possibly he is referring to the bomb going off and witnessing the losties ‘die’? If we’re assuming they ‘flashed’ to present island time when the bomb went off, that would mean someone in 1977 (Richard & Others) witnessing the bomb going off would see them there before the bomb went off and appear to vanish/die after the explosion.

  304. JJL says:

    [quote comment="370184"][quote comment="370183"][quote comment="370181"][quote comment="370180"]In the alternate timeline, the reason there is no island anymore is b/c of the 815 passengers, right? Does that mean they still have to go to the island to do that? The alternate timeline wouldn’t be possible without them being on the island in 77, right? I would love to hear what people think, as I am very confused. I really think the two timelines should meet up somehow, but I am not really seeing how its possible.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I don’t know how, but I think they will line up because the thought of LOST having two endings is not appealing to me.[/quote]

    No way! It only ends once! Jacob said so.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++
    Well, he did say that before the rules got changed and the loophole happened. ;)[/quote]

    I liked that comment by Jacob – and it’s why I think the MIB has grown tired of him and his game. He makes that comment as they look upon a boat coming to the island. The MIB says something to the affect of, ‘here we go again, it’s all going to end the same way’ – implying that they’d been through this whole process before. Then Jacob replies, “it only ends once, everything that happens before is progress”

    I think this is key and illustrates Jacobs never ending belief (almost to the point of obstinance) in something. I think he’s really ticking of the MIB because he’s making him go through this exhausting process over and over again to prove a point..

  305. Allie says:

    Why would Jacob inhabit Sayid’s body. I dont remember exactly but the losties asked what the letter actually said and that temple guy with the short curly hair said that if sayid doesnt live were all in big trouble. Which means Jacob does not want Sayid to die, therefore he does not want his body or to inhabit his body in any way, nor duplicate it.

  306. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370180"]In the alternate timeline, the reason there is no island anymore is b/c of the 815 passengers, right? Does that mean they still have to go to the island to do that? The alternate timeline wouldn’t be possible without them being on the island in 77, right? I would love to hear what people think, as I am very confused. I really think the two timelines should meet up somehow, but I am not really seeing how its possible.[/quote]

    I think you’re right about that. But the version of the Losties we saw on flight 815 last night, is not the version that goes back to the island.

    I’d say that the timeline that we’ve known all along goes like this”

    -In 1977 the incident occurs
    -the Swan Hatch gets built,
    -Rousseau arrives on the island,
    -the purge happens,
    -etc
    -Desmond fails to push the button
    -Flight 815 crashes on the island in 2004,
    -the O6 leave in 2005,
    -the O6 return on flight 316 in 2007, but during that flight Jack & Kate time travel to 1977,
    -later in 1977 the incident occurs but doesn’t destroy the island,
    -as a result of the incident, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc time travel to 2007 and hook up with other Others at the Temple
    -to be continued throughout Season 6.

    However, when the incident occurs in 1977, it creates a second timeline, within which the island is destroyed/sunk, so there’s no Rousseau on island, no purge, no Swan Hatch etc. In this second timeline, prior to 2004, the Lost characters go about living their lives pretty much as we’ve seen in their flashbacks, with apparently some variations, and most of them end up on flight 815 in Sept 2004, and they safely arrive in LA (as we saw in “LA X”). The rest of this timeline is also to be continued throughout Season 6

    So there are two versions of the Losties in existence on Sept 23, 2004 (and subsequent days) – the version that we saw crash on the island in season 1, and the version that we saw land in LA last night.

  307. Jamie says:

    [quote comment="370117"]
    when the Lockeness Monster said he wanted to go home,
    what if he meant to the Temple?
    i mean…those glyphs and all that other temple-action make me think he lives there.[/quote]

    Interesting thought. In past seasons we have been shown that the smoke monster does live there (it enters/exits through the hole in the wall surrounding the temple). This plus the one smoke monster vs. two theory is a head scratcher though. There might be something there….

  308. Lola says:

    someone please refresh my memory, remember when Ben summoned the smoke monster that we now know to be the MIB….how did Ben do that?

  309. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370191"]someone please refresh my memory, remember when Ben summoned the smoke monster that we now know to be the MIB….how did Ben do that?[/quote]

    *****
    he pulled that plug in his house at the DI barracks…but he didn’t seem to really know what it was…that was the only way he seemed to know how to summon it…but again, that seemed to be the “good” smokey…there to protect…

  310. Lola says:

    [quote comment="370192"][quote comment="370191"]someone please refresh my memory, remember when Ben summoned the smoke monster that we now know to be the MIB….how did Ben do that?[/quote]

    *****
    he pulled that plug in his house at the DI barracks…but he didn’t seem to really know what it was…that was the only way he seemed to know how to summon it…but again, that seemed to be the “good” smokey…there to protect…[/quote]

    so, we know that behind the bookcase in Ben’s home he had access to the…temple? I think he really did summon the MIB (even though here the MIB acted as “good” smoky in order to protect the island/ his home. i think the MIB has been using Ben the whole time by acting as Jacob b/c the MIB would have interest in protecting the island if what BACON said is true , that the temple is his home…which i think may be the case.

  311. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    Did Jack have a cut on his neck in the pilot episode when he woke up in the jungle?

    When did Alpert see the Losties in the Namaste picture die?

    I do think that things that happened when the plane crashed will still happen even though the plane landed at LAX.

    Jack saved Charlie from choking, but Charlie will die anyway. Boone looks up to Locke, it will end up killing him. Claire and Kate are together in the taxi, is it possible Claire goes into labor again with Kate there? I wonder if the US Marshall will still be killed (and if Jack tries to save him?)

    I think we will see a ton of these types of occurences. Whatever happened, happened. This time it’s just different circumstances.

    Except Desmond?

  312. Lola says:

    ok scratch that! if the MIB has access to the temple as smoky than why not as a “man”? DOES the path behing the bookcase lead to the temple? I know it lead t the donkey wheel. Damn this show!!!!!

  313. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    I also think there is only one smoke monster, and that the MIB was protecting Ben, because he needed Ben to kill Jacob.

  314. Kathy P says:

    Ok I have thought about this more and would like your thoughts. What if The MIB and Jacob are Egyptian Gods that have gone to the after life. When they were alive Jacob was good and the MIB was bad. What if Jacob made the Island as a prison for the MIB. Jacob is like the warden. He created smokey to protect the Island and recruited Richard to help and Richard recruited Ben. I think Jacob and the MIB are playing a game. I think there are rules that must be followed by both of them and I feel part of the rules have loopholes to make the game interesting. I think that once Jacob was killed that the MIB was THEN in control of the island and smokey and the people. But I also feel Jacob used a loophole and is now Sayid getting back control as warden. I also feel rules were flowed down to Richard and the others to keep them in control so Jacob and the MIB could use them as they wished for their game.

  315. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370187"]Why would Jacob inhabit Sayid’s body. I dont remember exactly but the losties asked what the letter actually said and that temple guy with the short curly hair said that if sayid doesnt live were all in big trouble. Which means Jacob does not want Sayid to die, therefore he does not want his body or to inhabit his body in any way, nor duplicate it.[/quote]

    I don’t htink the letter necessarily said “Sayid needs to stay alive” – I think it was another list of names – this particular list had everyone’s names on it (Hurley, Jack, Kate, Jin) – this list somehow signaled to the Templefolk that these people were key to the fight against MIB – therefore they ALL need to stay alive.

    That’s how I took it.

  316. Allie says:

    [quote comment="370197"]Ok I have thought about this more and would like your thoughts. What if The MIB and Jacob are Egyptian Gods that have gone to the after life. When they were alive Jacob was good and the MIB was bad. What if Jacob made the Island as a prison for the MIB. Jacob is like the warden. He created smokey to protect the Island and recruited Richard to help and Richard recruited Ben. I think Jacob and the MIB are playing a game. I think there are rules that must be followed by both of them and I feel part of the rules have loopholes to make the game interesting. I think that once Jacob was killed that the MIB was THEN in control of the island and smokey and the people. But I also feel Jacob used a loophole and is now Sayid getting back control as warden. I also feel rules were flowed down to Richard and the others to keep them in control so Jacob and the MIB could use them as they wished for their game.[/quote]

    as i said before….

    Why would Jacob inhabit Sayid’s body. I dont remember exactly but the losties asked what the letter actually said and that temple guy with the short curly hair said that if sayid doesnt live were all in big trouble. Which means Jacob does not want Sayid to die, therefore he does not want his body or to inhabit his body in any way, nor duplicate it.

  317. JJL says:

    [quote comment="370198"][quote comment="370187"]Why would Jacob inhabit Sayid’s body. I dont remember exactly but the losties asked what the letter actually said and that temple guy with the short curly hair said that if sayid doesnt live were all in big trouble. Which means Jacob does not want Sayid to die, therefore he does not want his body or to inhabit his body in any way, nor duplicate it.[/quote]

    I don’t htink the letter necessarily said “Sayid needs to stay alive” – I think it was another list of names – this particular list had everyone’s names on it (Hurley, Jack, Kate, Jin) – this list somehow signaled to the Templefolk that these people were key to the fight against MIB – therefore they ALL need to stay alive.

    That’s how I took it.[/quote]

    Right, I took that letter to mean that everyone Jacob touched is going to be vital to whatever happens in the series’ resolution…including the real Locke

  318. Allie says:

    [quote comment="370200"][quote comment="370198"][quote comment="370187"]Why would Jacob inhabit Sayid’s body. I dont remember exactly but the losties asked what the letter actually said and that temple guy with the short curly hair said that if sayid doesnt live were all in big trouble. Which means Jacob does not want Sayid to die, therefore he does not want his body or to inhabit his body in any way, nor duplicate it.[/quote]

    I don’t htink the letter necessarily said “Sayid needs to stay alive” – I think it was another list of names – this particular list had everyone’s names on it (Hurley, Jack, Kate, Jin) – this list somehow signaled to the Templefolk that these people were key to the fight against MIB – therefore they ALL need to stay alive.

    That’s how I took it.[/quote]

    Right, I took that letter to mean that everyone Jacob touched is going to be vital to whatever happens in the series’ resolution…including the real Locke[/quote]

    yes so if jacob wanted sayid to live, the he is not inhabiting him or duplicating him. that is the real sayid

  319. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370196"]I also think there is only one smoke monster, and that the MIB was protecting Ben, because he needed Ben to kill Jacob.[/quote]

    ******
    I do like this idea that he was using Ben because he knew he would need him…

    also like some of your other thoughts, like Kate will still deliver Claires baby…

    same events (just different from how we saw them on the island).

  320. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370194"]
    I do think that things that happened when the plane crashed will still happen even though the plane landed at LAX.

    Jack saved Charlie from choking, but Charlie will die anyway. Boone looks up to Locke, it will end up killing him. Claire and Kate are together in the taxi, is it possible Claire goes into labor again with Kate there? I wonder if the US Marshall will still be killed (and if Jack tries to save him?)

    I think we will see a ton of these types of occurences. Whatever happened, happened. This time it’s just different circumstances.

    Except Desmond?[/quote]

    Yes, time corrects its-self. We saw this before with Desmond when he went back in time, but ended up not marrying Penny. The paths of our Losties are bound to cross in certain ways.

  321. Liz says:

    [quote comment="370201"][quote comment="370200"][quote comment="370198"][quote comment="370187"]Why would Jacob inhabit Sayid’s body. I dont remember exactly but the losties asked what the letter actually said and that temple guy with the short curly hair said that if sayid doesnt live were all in big trouble. Which means Jacob does not want Sayid to die, therefore he does not want his body or to inhabit his body in any way, nor duplicate it.[/quote]

    I don’t htink the letter necessarily said “Sayid needs to stay alive” – I think it was another list of names – this particular list had everyone’s names on it (Hurley, Jack, Kate, Jin) – this list somehow signaled to the Templefolk that these people were key to the fight against MIB – therefore they ALL need to stay alive.

    That’s how I took it.[/quote]

    Right, I took that letter to mean that everyone Jacob touched is going to be vital to whatever happens in the series’ resolution…including the real Locke[/quote]

    yes so if jacob wanted sayid to live, the he is not inhabiting him or duplicating him. that is the real sayid[/quote]

    Maybe Jacob knew that by telling the others not to let Sayid die, they would do what needed to be done in order for him to take over Sayid’s body. Jacob could have told the others not to let Sayid die simply because in order to inhabit Sayid’s body he needed them to take Sayid into the temple and put him in the water, etc.?

  322. JJL says:

    [quote comment="370205"][quote comment="370201"][quote comment="370200"][quote comment="370198"][quote comment="370187"]Why would Jacob inhabit Sayid’s body. I dont remember exactly but the losties asked what the letter actually said and that temple guy with the short curly hair said that if sayid doesnt live were all in big trouble. Which means Jacob does not want Sayid to die, therefore he does not want his body or to inhabit his body in any way, nor duplicate it.[/quote]

    I don’t htink the letter necessarily said “Sayid needs to stay alive” – I think it was another list of names – this particular list had everyone’s names on it (Hurley, Jack, Kate, Jin) – this list somehow signaled to the Templefolk that these people were key to the fight against MIB – therefore they ALL need to stay alive.

    That’s how I took it.[/quote]

    Right, I took that letter to mean that everyone Jacob touched is going to be vital to whatever happens in the series’ resolution…including the real Locke[/quote]

    yes so if jacob wanted sayid to live, the he is not inhabiting him or duplicating him. that is the real sayid[/quote]

    Maybe Jacob knew that by telling the others not to let Sayid die, they would do what needed to be done in order for him to take over Sayid’s body. Jacob could have told the others not to let Sayid die simply because in order to inhabit Sayid’s body he needed them to take Sayid into the temple and put him in the water, etc.?[/quote]
    I’m, for whatever reason, not sold on the idea of actually inhabiting bodies. Although, there certainly is the ability to take another’s appearance. If bodies could actually be inhabited, then the MIB’s smart move would have been to inhabit Locke’s body instead of copying it. That way, he never would have aroused suspicion.

  323. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370021"][quote comment="370015"]If the bomb went off (and it didnt) that would not change the events leading up to 815. Michael and Walt would have been on board, as well as Shannon. Welcome to flashsideways.[/quote]

    You can believe what you want to about the bomb. But it exploding certainly COULD change the events leading up to 815. As I said in post 63, if the Incident didn’t happen, there are a LOT of things in 27 years that would change in the course of the world. Widmore might not have been banished; Desmond might not have met Penny; who knows how Michael and Walt’s lives might have been different. We didn’t see Eko, or Ana Lucia, or Libby either. We only saw Claire in the taxi (and we didn’t see her belly – she might not even be pregnant).

    And FWIW, just because we didn’t SEE Michael and Walt on the plane, doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Malcolm David Kelley is SIX years older than he was in the pilot, they couldn’t very well recreate his experience!

    : ) P[/quote]
    It cannot be in 2004. It has to be 2007. If they are in 2004 then real Locke is alive somewhere on the island and D&C have stated that the real Locke is dead in this week’s entertainment weekly. They flashed to 2007 they year that flight 316 landed on the island.

  324. mrs markelz says:

    Reader since season 2, first time poster
    Since Richard is thought to be tied to the black rock and widmore bought the manifest from the br – how does widmore and eli for that matter fit into this story anymore?

  325. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370032"]Ok last thought. The bomb did not go off. The incident happened. The hatch got built for a reason as we see it imploded. Why build a hatch if the bomb went off?[/quote]

    I agree the hatch got built. kate realizes it is the hatch when she sees the door that Daniel spoke to Desmond at when he told him to go find his mother.

  326. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370078"][quote comment="370074"]Also, the whole alternate universe and LA landing doesn’t make sense, because why is the bomb explosion the factor that changes everything? If we are to believe this alternate universe plot line, then why doesn’t Sawyer, Juliet, et al living for three years in 1977 change anything? Three years living in the past doesn’t change anything in the future? That’s hard to believe.

    Also, let’s not forget that Hurley wins the lottery by playing the Island numbers… which he wouldn’t have come across otherwise. But, alternate Hurley is “lucky” so I suppose we’re to believe he won using different numbers, then went to Sydney, not for answers, but to have a good time, and I suppose open his chicken chain in the outback.

    I think the writers are asking us to swallow a lot by accepting the alternate, LA landing plot… but accept it I shall and enjoy the series, I will.[/quote]
    Another good point, about Hurley.

    The first time through the series I was willing to accept all the coincidences/intersecting plotlines of the various characters. And I am hoping that the writers will provide a reasonable explanation for why these characters ended up on the exact same flight again. But if this gets chalked up as one of those unexplainable mysteries, I will be disappointed. (because there were specific island-related reasons certain characters like Locke and Hurley were on the original flight 815, if there’s no island, there’s no reason for them to be on that flight in the alternate timeline)[/quote]

    Hurley was in Australia doing something for his chicken restaurant. Arnzt made him do the australina accent. Locke was there for the same reasons as the first time around. He told Boone that he went on a walkabout. Shannon wasn’t there because she chose not to get out of her relationship. They explained most of the reasons why they were or were not on the plane.

  327. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370084"][quote comment="370080"]
    But it’s NOT exactly the same. Shannon is not on the flight, there is a reason. Desmond IS on the flight, there is a reason. Christian’s body is NOT on the flight, there is a reason. Not to mention that even though many are on the flight, their attitudes are completely opposite from the first time.[/quote]

    Agreed and I am willing to go along with all of that. My particular concerns are Hurley and Locke. There were specific island-related reasons for them to be on the original flight 815. With no island, there is seemingly no reason for them to be on THAT specific flight. I realize there are 16 hours left within which the reasons can be given; and my point is that I hope that D&C DO provide reasons for Locke and Hurley being on the plane, and they don’t leave it as something we just have to accept.[/quote]

    What exactly were Locke’s “island-related” reasons for being on the plane? It was in Australia for a walk-a-bout which is why he was on it the 2nd time as well. We do not know if what he told Boone was correct about being able to go on the adventure. Hurler heard the numbers from the guy at the mental hospital repeating them over and over. Do we know what year that guy heard the numbers? The island could have been there until the H-bomb went off in 1977. Hurley originally in Australia investigating the numbers. This time around it seemed he was there for his chicken shack given Arnzt asking him to do the accent. I have no idea what Locke’s island related stuff means though as both times he stated he was in australia for a walk-a-bout.

  328. The Kath says:

    The Man in Black and Jacob on beach discussing the ship coming and “How it’ll end the same” and “Yeah but everything up until then is just progress” reminds me of myself saying that to my video gamer friend when I was little. He would kick my ass every time we played Mortal Combat but I still went over every day and played because every day was progress, progress in learning how to beat him till one day I finally did.

    So taking that mentality and putting it with all the Backgammon references in the show, I’m thinking that The Man in Black and Jacob are locked in a virtual Backgammon game. Now I don’t know how to play Backgammon but I’ve been looking up the rules.

    The object of the game is move all your checkers into your own home and then bear them off.

    Things that stick out as very “Lost” to me are the six points in a quadrant (Oceanic 6?) and the checkers you must bear off of the six points. Maybe in the game Jacob and The Man in Black are playing they have to “bear off” things/people from each of their chosen six. I’m thinking the Oceanic 6 belong to Jacob since he visited them off island and touched them. Not sure who the Man in Black’s 6 would be, maybe Widmore, Ben, Eloise, Mr. Paik, Kemi, The Others, The Tailies, etc.

    And after all this “bearing off” the chosen 6 must still want to be on the side from which they came; good or bad, dark or light.

    The numbers on the Backgammon dice are: 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64

    It also has a Jacoby Rule! It’s optional. This rule speeds up play by eliminating situations where a player avoids doubling (hello! two Lockes Two Christians Two Claires Two Alexes) so he can play on for a gammon.

    Anyways, just throwing this stuff out there…if any one could lend some ideas as to any of this making sense that would be great.

  329. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370209"]I agree the hatch got built. kate realizes it is the hatch when she sees the door that Daniel spoke to Desmond at when he told him to go find his mother.[/quote]

    Good catch, Duke. I had forgotten that. So the hatch was built, which means that if the bomb did explode, it didn’t change that part of the island’s history.

    : ) P

  330. mrs markelz says:

    [quote comment="370213"][quote comment="370209"]I agree the hatch got built. kate realizes it is the hatch when she sees the door that Daniel spoke to Desmond at when he told him to go find his mother.[/quote]

    Good catch, Duke. I had forgotten that. So the hatch was built, which means that if the bomb did explode, it didn’t change that part of the island’s history.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I think the bomb always went off that was the incident and everything went on as it is supposed to happend, WHH – but i am having a hard time fitting the alt reality into this picture – someone stated above that we are seeing what happends after the so called war and the loop finally ends – im going to ponder this for a while but it seems like the only thing that fits

  331. Bobola says:

    Oh man!!!
    My worst nightmare;
    Seeing Charlie back on the show…
    and he looks like he’s been doing drugs all the time he’s been off the show…
    now if they can just get him to stop singing…maybe I can take it.
    But hell; if you’re gonna bring back people at least bring back someone interesting like Patchy or that Rambo mercenary.

    Hurley’s grown some gonads all of a sudden?
    Must be the lack of Pizza has made him an angry man.

    Love the new Japanese guy…did he land his Zero on the island during WWII…the reason he won’t speak Engrish? But then that leather jacket looks post 1945, eh?

    That’s one super dummy guarding Kate. As soon as they left the plane the cuffs shudda been put on around the back.

    So why didn’t Miss Hair Trigger and friends on the beach shoot the fake Locke? Her buddies never left the Foot Palace after Smokey/New Locke had his fun.
    And why such a Huge box for dead Locke?

    Funny seeing the Ankh; I paint guitar paintings and once used an ankh as the body of one. Damn writers stole that one from me…or maybe Prince.

    About time Miles got busy with the dead person skills again.

    I would like to second the comment made;
    Let’s see the back story on Alpert!

  332. dharmagirl says:

    Another thought about the whole “game” theory…

    Have you heard of the Japanese game of Go?

    Like backgammon, it uses black and white stones and the objective of this simple but strategic game is to “capture” stones to gain control of the board.

    From Wikipedia–“The game is played by two players who alternately place black and white stones on the vacant intersections of a grid of 19×19 lines. The object of the game is to control a larger portion of the board than the opponent. A stone or a group of stones is captured and removed if it has no empty adjacent intersections, the result of being completely surrounded by stones of the opposing color”

    What’s really interesting is that the stones can be alive, dead, or “unsettled”…one might argue the same about the folks on the island.

    2 players–Jacob and MIB? Each with a collection of “stones”? Each trying to gain control of the board/island?

    It’s all so intriguing! I love this show!

  333. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370211"]
    What exactly were Locke’s “island-related” reasons for being on the plane? It was in Australia for a walk-a-bout which is why he was on it the 2nd time as well. We do not know if what he told Boone was correct about being able to go on the adventure. Hurler heard the numbers from the guy at the mental hospital repeating them over and over. Do we know what year that guy heard the numbers? The island could have been there until the H-bomb went off in 1977. Hurley originally in Australia investigating the numbers. This time around it seemed he was there for his chicken shack given Arnzt asking him to do the accent. I have no idea what Locke’s island related stuff means though as both times he stated he was in australia for a walk-a-bout.[/quote]

    See comment 184 for Locke’s island-related reasons for being on the original flight 815.

    And see Mal’s comment 196 regarding Hurley’s island related reasons for being on the original flight 815. Lenny and Sam Toomey heard the numbers being broadcast by the island’s transmitter in the mid-80’s, well after the island was destroyed in the “alternate timeline”.

  334. Mr. $tuart says:

    Did Bernard call Rose Viv? I swear he said, “I missed you too Viv.”

  335. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="369959"][quote comment="369952"]But the way Kate and Sawyer explained it, this was the crater caused by Des turning the fail safe. (which may have been the bomb?) So, referring to my previous post, if Des wasn’t onthe island, he couldn’t have turned the failsafe key, so no crater?[/quote]

    Here is how I am seeing it in this immediate post LOST fog – the Jughead DID explode (hence the crater, with the construction detritus) and it DID work (hence the alternate timeline). *But* when it reset the events that happened after July 1977, it also caused the existing LOSTies to flash to “present day” on the island (which should still be 2007).

    I don’t know if I have explained myself properly or not, but that’s the best I can do in this foggy moment!

    : ) P[/quote]
    ________________
    I agree. I think the 1977 losties traveled to present day, and the incident worked, in that, the plane landed in LAX. Juliet’s confusing statements when she was dying were ‘Let’s go dutch’ etc., indicates that she was time traveling back and forth just like Charlotte was right before she died, and, for a split second, she may have gone to a time when she witnessed the losties off the island after the plane landed in LAX. Thats when she realized that it had worked. So, I dont think these are two alternate realities. Kate thinks that thats the crater caused by Desmond, but the creator is actually there because of the nuke.

  336. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370217"][quote comment="370211"]
    What exactly were Locke’s “island-related” reasons for being on the plane? It was in Australia for a walk-a-bout which is why he was on it the 2nd time as well. We do not know if what he told Boone was correct about being able to go on the adventure. Hurler heard the numbers from the guy at the mental hospital repeating them over and over. Do we know what year that guy heard the numbers? The island could have been there until the H-bomb went off in 1977. Hurley originally in Australia investigating the numbers. This time around it seemed he was there for his chicken shack given Arnzt asking him to do the accent. I have no idea what Locke’s island related stuff means though as both times he stated he was in australia for a walk-a-bout.[/quote]

    See comment 184 for Locke’s island-related reasons for being on the original flight 815.

    And see Mal’s comment 196 regarding Hurley’s island related reasons for being on the original flight 815. Lenny and Sam Toomey heard the numbers being broadcast by the island’s transmitter in the mid-80’s, well after the island was destroyed in the “alternate timeline”.[/quote]

    I understand what you are saying about they had island reasons to be on the plane the 1st time. I was just giving reasons for them to be on the second flight from australia. Locke’s reasons being the same and Hurley’s being Mr. Kluck’s related. A franchise opening in australia.

  337. Lola says:

    [quote comment="370219"]Did Bernard call Rose Viv? I swear he said, “I missed you too Viv.”[/quote]

    I just watched it AGAIN~ yes, he did say VIV!

  338. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370222"]I just watched it AGAIN~ yes, he did say VIV![/quote]

    No. He says, “I missed you too, beautiful.”

    I understand how you might think it sounds like Viv, but it isn’t.

    : ) P

  339. Angel says:

    I think Kate, Jack etc… are in the same time as the others because when Dogen shoots the signal the people at the statue see it.

    I was just wondering if the bomb didn’t do anything, why did Juliet end up in the same place where she was before the bomb and some of the others weren’t?

  340. Shadow says:

    Ok, just rewatched the first hour again. That is definitely the remains of the swan hatch. Miles looks down and asks is that the construction site, and Kate says No, its the hatch after Desmond blew it up. Also, when Jack wakes up, and realizes where they are, he says “they built it”…talking about the hatch. And of course, at the bottom of the rubble where Juliette is trapped, we see the red stationery bike from the hatch. But it couldn’t have been right after the hatch blew up, they ended up in 2007. Like others have said, the flares from the temple were seen by Richard and others on the beach.

  341. DocH says:

    bobola queried… Why such a big box to carry dead Locke?

    uh… the coffin didn’t have a latch, but the metal box was Baggie double-seal Zip Lock – with “keep him fresher, longer technology” – for the picnic to the beach.

  342. Shadow says:

    Thinking out loud now, but I really hope that we don’t have a bunch of un-resolved story lines. for example, the significance of Eloise and Widmore. I’ve always wondered what Eloise meant when she said that for the first time, she didn’t know what was going to happen next. I was feeling pretty good last season about the whole time loop theory, but now I don’t know anything anymore!!!!!!!!!

  343. Murphey says:

    A few thoughts… actually mostly questions.

    MIB is sick of the game Jacob wants to keep playing – he keeps bringing people to the island to get them to do something backgammonesque. What does MIB say always happens? They become corrupt and kill each other? Is it the eternal life from the fountain in the temple that corrupts? MIB needs to kill Jacob to end the game and go home – the temple, ancient Egypt, an alien planet?

    Could the loophole be that you can only be killed by someone who is on your own side of the war? Ben was an Other, one of Jacob’s followers. Are these the same rules that Ben has to follow with Widmore? Also, why couldn’t Michael die off the island when he tried to shoot himself? Does it have to do with avoiding paradox? Is that why it was so important for the Oceanic 6 to go back?

    Is the Island under water in the alternate reality because of the bomb or because of something that hasn’t happened yet – the end of the game? It doesn’t seem like the bomb would make an island sink in a way that would allow the foot statue to stay upright – although realism isn’t exactly to be expected.

    Must the alternate reality eventually reconcile with the island reality? Maybe the 2007 reality only still exists on the Island which is under water in all real times? Under that theory they can no longer leave the island as they would jump back into the alternative reality and be at the bottom of the ocean. Alternatively, there is still something left to do in the 2007 realty to sink the island which will lead to the alternate reality being the only reality.

  344. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370228"]A few thoughts… actually mostly questions.

    MIB is sick of the game Jacob wants to keep playing – he keeps bringing people to the island to get them to do something backgammonesque. What does MIB say always happens? They become corrupt and kill each other? Is it the eternal life from the fountain in the temple that corrupts? MIB needs to kill Jacob to end the game and go home – the temple, ancient Egypt, an alien planet?

    Could the loophole be that you can only be killed by someone who is on your own side of the war? Ben was an Other, one of Jacob’s followers. Are these the same rules that Ben has to follow with Widmore? Also, why couldn’t Michael die off the island when he tried to shoot himself? Does it have to do with avoiding paradox? Is that why it was so important for the Oceanic 6 to go back?

    Is the Island under water in the alternate reality because of the bomb or because of something that hasn’t happened yet – the end of the game? It doesn’t seem like the bomb would make an island sink in a way that would allow the foot statue to stay upright – although realism isn’t exactly to be expected.

    Must the alternate reality eventually reconcile with the island reality? Maybe the 2007 reality only still exists on the Island which is under water in all real times? Under that theory they can no longer leave the island as they would jump back into the alternative reality and be at the bottom of the ocean. Alternatively, there is still something left to do in the 2007 realty to sink the island which will lead to the alternate reality being the only reality.[/quote]

    I agree with you that the bomb going off would have destroyed the island, but although its under water it seems intact. Even the houses are upright and everything seems the same. I think you may have a good point that the island sinking is as a result of the end of the game. What if what we are watching is not an alternate time line but actually what ends up happening to our characters as a result of the island “game” being over. I mean to say, what if someone “moves” the island to the bottom of the ocean to end things? We know the island can move, right? That would explain whey the houses and the foot statue are all intact. If the island ends up at the bottom of the ocean at the end of the season, then our characters will never crash on the island and will go on with their lives as we see in the flashes.

  345. Bill says:

    Couple of lines that I think are meant to drop big hints:

    “I aint gonna kill Jack, he deserves to suffer on this rock like the rest of us.” Sawyer about Jack. Reintroducing the purgatorial aspect of the island. While this may be a possibility I think it probably is the opposite, the island is probably something more along the lines of utopian escape from the losties “pathetic lives” like Flock claims JohnLocke realized.

    “It worked.” Juliette can see their alternate selves. Perhaps in death the losties course-correct and merge with their alternate selves.

    “Nothing is irreversible.” Reveals that Jack is not the same cynic that we knew, the whole airplane encounter seems to imply this for Locke and the others as well. Also could have some implications as far as the broader story line(s) go.

    Also very interesting that Christian’s body was not on the plane. Not so sure what this means.
    As far as the bodies go it seems to me that Jacob can actually take control of dead bodies on the island while Esau can only appear as them? Like most I’m leaning towards Jacob being reborn as Sayid

    Looks like FLocke may be planning to take on the form of Richard to gain entrance to the temple? I’m assuming the temple is where he is calling home, or at least a means of getting him ‘home.’

  346. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370230"]Couple of lines that I think are meant to drop big hints:

    “I aint gonna kill Jack, he deserves to suffer on this rock like the rest of us.” Sawyer about Jack. Reintroducing the purgatorial aspect of the island. While this may be a possibility I think it probably is the opposite, the island is probably something more along the lines of utopian escape from the losties “pathetic lives” like Flock claims JohnLocke realized.

    “It worked.” Juliette can see their alternate selves. Perhaps in death the losties course-correct and merge with their alternate selves.

    “Nothing is irreversible.” Reveals that Jack is not the same cynic that we knew, the whole airplane encounter seems to imply this for Locke and the others as well. Also could have some implications as far as the broader story line(s) go.

    Also very interesting that Christian’s body was not on the plane. Not so sure what this means.
    As far as the bodies go it seems to me that Jacob can actually take control of dead bodies on the island while Esau can only appear as them? Like most I’m leaning towards Jacob being reborn as Sayid

    Looks like FLocke may be planning to take on the form of Richard to gain entrance to the temple? I’m assuming the temple is where he is calling home, or at least a means of getting him ‘home.’[/quote]

    So do you think Richard is dead? I can’t stand anymore of our characters dying. Locke, Juliette, Sayid…enough

  347. Bill says:

    Going on the idea that the souls of the island losties will merge with their alternate selves after death, could it be that with the bomb going off/Juliette dying and saying “it worked” is connected with the possibility that she is the only one that actually wanted to go back? Sawyer asked her why she hit the bomb before she finally does die on the island. She says that she never wanted him to have come to the island at all. Maybe Sawyer and the 6 deep down want to stay. Perhaps the she was rewarded in self-sacrifice?

    Im probably reading into this a little much but thats why i love the show. In any case I do definitely think that in death the essence’s of the losties are course-corrected into sole existence in the alternate reality, with the island submerged. I also definitely like the idea that a major part of the game between Esau and Jacob involves free will of the pawns or pieces as well as a willingness to stay on the island (and probably to play for either team).

  348. Bill says:

    So do you think Richard is dead? I can’t stand anymore of our characters dying. Locke, Juliette, Sayid…enough[/quote]

    Not from what happened on the beach but possibly in the future. I’m on this theory now that death on the island might complete course correction to the alternate reality and thus may not be a bad thing? At the same time there is definitely also something to the idea that the characters are meant to want to stay on the island.
    Either way Richards story is completely different. He is immortal in that he doesnt age but who knows if he can be killed. I wonder if whatever gift he had been given will now be gone without Jacob. Regardless killing him could be Esau’s plan.

    I agree with you that the dying thing is getting old but it is kind of cool to see the actors get a chance to play the same character as a different character (like in Locke and possibly Sayid’s (if he is Jacob) case.)

  349. Mateo says:

    I believe they will end this show letting the audience decide what happens (or what universe is real/better), much like The Sopranos… Did Tony get shot?…
    I hope I’m wrong…

  350. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370221"]

    I understand what you are saying about they had island reasons to be on the plane the 1st time. I was just giving reasons for them to be on the second flight from australia. Locke’s reasons being the same and Hurley’s being Mr. Kluck’s related. A franchise opening in australia.[/quote]

    I know there are “reasons” Locke and Hurley are on the plane in this second timeline. My concern is that these reasons are apparently different from the reasons they were on the plane in the first timeline.

    It just seems too wild of a coincidence and as I said in comment #206, I hope that there is a little more of an explanation from D&C as to why this is happening. I realize we may not get that explanation, but I for one would like to know – is there some force that is causing these people to come together? For the first 5 seasons, I thought that force was the island/Jacob. I didn’t exactly understand how or why, but I accepted that there is a connection among these characters and that the island/Jacob had something to do with that connection. But in this second timeline, the island/Jacob are out of the picture, correct? If that is the case, I would expect Hurley’s and Locke’s lives to be drastically different than they were in the other timeline, because their pre-OA815 lives were heavily influenced by the island.

    The same is not true for Jack, Kate, Charlie, Sawyer, etc. Yes, I know Jacob touched some of those people, so it’s not like they were unaffected by Jacob/the island. But it seems reasonable to me that for the most part their lives would not be altered much if there were no island around prior to 2004. Jack’s father could very well have died in Australia. Sawyer still may have been a con man and went to Australia to kill someone he thought was the real Sawyer, etc etc. I have no problem accepting that all of them are on the same flight. It’s not as easy for me to accept Hurley and Locke being on that same exact flight.

    Sorry for beating a dead horse for being long-winded, but I suppose anyone who has been reading this blog for any length of time would expect nothing less from me. :)

  351. Hammer says:

    Toeknee, my current opinion is that Hugo and Locke are on the plane because WHH and course correction. The first time around they were on the plane…so fate had them on the plane the second time around. Details can be changed in WHH rules, but end results are the same. So the alt time line is trying to course correct so that the end result is the same. I think I mentioned before that I think we will find out that Shannon dies in Australia because she died on the island. Same for Eko, Libby, Ana Lucia. I think they were hinting at this because Charlie told Jack he was supposed to die, and I think he will soon.

  352. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370234"]I believe they will end this show letting the audience decide what happens (or what universe is real/better), much like The Sopranos… Did Tony get shot?…
    I hope I’m wrong…[/quote]

    I think this is a likelihood, if for no other reason than D&C have been hinting that people are going to hate the ending at first and then, after time to digest it, appreciate it. I will be so devastated that LOST is over, I will hate it just for being the end!

    : ) P

  353. Mal says:

    Toeknee, well put – I feel the same way, a little bit cheated that the writers are asking us to assume that their post-bomb lives would be almost identical to their island lives, 40 years later. Though alternate universes, time traveling, etc, are not simple concepts, this idea still defies reason.

    Also, if we are to believe in these alternate realities/universes, then there should be in infinite amount of Jacks, Kates, Hurleys, and Lockes… why only show us two?

  354. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370237"]Toeknee, my current opinion is that Hugo and Locke are on the plane because WHH and course correction. The first time around they were on the plane…so fate had them on the plane the second time around. Details can be changed in WHH rules, but end results are the same. So the alt time line is trying to course correct so that the end result is the same. I think I mentioned before that I think we will find out that Shannon dies in Australia because she died on the island. Same for Eko, Libby, Ana Lucia. I think they were hinting at this because Charlie told Jack he was supposed to die, and I think he will soon.[/quote]

    I could see course correction taking place, but what are the rules? (rhetorical question)

    I mean, we’re talking about course correction of the lives of 20 or 30 people, right? So their fates (or, the approximate time frames of their deaths) may very well end up being the same in the two timelines.

    But what about everyone else? In the second timeline, with the island’s destruction, presumably people like Horace, Dr. Chang, young Ben, young Ethan, etc, all die in 1977, as opposed to dying in the 80’s, or 2000’s, or whenever. Where’s the course correction for that? Unless, maybe they too flash to some as-yet-to-be-revealed time and location?

    But that’s really my original point – that I hope the show explains a little more clearly what the rules of this second timeline are, and how it relates to the first timeline, how it relates to WHH and course correction and all the other “rules” we were told about in the first 5 seasons. And with 16 hours to go, I do have faith that the writers will shed more light on this whole issue.

  355. Murphey says:

    Does the madness the French expedition experienced give us any clues about what is happening with Sayid? The ones that went down the hole into the temple area came back trying to kill Rouseau. They couldn’t have been Smokey as she was able to kill them. Either they were possessed, manipulated or insane. The Others said that the pool changes people forever like when young Ben was healed. Maybe it just makes them part of the game and influenced by Jacob or MIB/Smokey. With Sayid the pool was different due to Jacob’s death. The Others didn’t know Jacob was dead when they put Sayid in the pool (Hurley told them after). I agree with the theory that Jacob will possess Sayid.

    Was it part of the game that Smokey couldn’t kill any of Jacob’s people while Jacob was alive? The temple Others clearly weren’t on guard until they found out about his death. Was Smokey not allowed to attack before or was Jacob’s death a sign that the war is on?

    Is the pool the fountain of youth of just a way to heal? Ben aged after being dunked, but maybe just to adulthood. The only characters we’ve seen age much past their prime on the island are Eloise and Widmore who looked older between the 50s and 70s. Do we know if either of them was in the pool? Maybe only people on Jacob’s list get to go in. Although Ben got to go in without orders from Jacob unless it was preordained. We only really know that Jacob, Smokey and Richard don’t age. Maybe nothing to do with the pool.

  356. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370239"]Toeknee, well put – I feel the same way, a little bit cheated that the writers are asking us to assume that their post-bomb lives would be almost identical to their island lives, 40 years later. Though alternate universes, time traveling, etc, are not simple concepts, this idea still defies reason.

    Also, if we are to believe in these alternate realities/universes, then there should be in infinite amount of Jacks, Kates, Hurleys, and Lockes… why only show us two?[/quote]

    Thanks Mal. I don’t even want to think about more than one alternate timeline, but you’re right, why couldn’t there be several timelines? I had no problem understanding the single timeline/whatever happened happened theories espoused by Dr. Chang and Daniel last season. I completely bought into it and really enjoyed that part of the show. So it’s gonna take me some time to adjust to the fact that they were apparently wrong.

  357. Mal says:

    A lot of people speculate about whether or not Sayid is possessed by Jacob – I do not think so for several reasons, many of which have already been raised by other posters (the MIB does not “inhabit” dead bodies – he only resembles them, being the best argument).

    One of the more obvious reason is that Sayid woke up saying “what happened?” or “what’s going on?” If Jacob planned to possess Sayid’s dead body, he likely wouldn’t be so confused upon rebirth. Also, confusion like that would be very uncharacteristic of wise old Jacob.

  358. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370240"][quote comment="370237"]Toeknee, my current opinion is that Hugo and Locke are on the plane because WHH and course correction. The first time around they were on the plane…so fate had them on the plane the second time around. Details can be changed in WHH rules, but end results are the same. So the alt time line is trying to course correct so that the end result is the same. I think I mentioned before that I think we will find out that Shannon dies in Australia because she died on the island. Same for Eko, Libby, Ana Lucia. I think they were hinting at this because Charlie told Jack he was supposed to die, and I think he will soon.[/quote]

    I could see course correction taking place, but what are the rules? (rhetorical question)

    I mean, we’re talking about course correction of the lives of 20 or 30 people, right? So their fates (or, the approximate time frames of their deaths) may very well end up being the same in the two timelines.

    But what about everyone else? In the second timeline, with the island’s destruction, presumably people like Horace, Dr. Chang, young Ben, young Ethan, etc, all die in 1977, as opposed to dying in the 80’s, or 2000’s, or whenever. Where’s the course correction for that? Unless, maybe they too flash to some as-yet-to-be-revealed time and location?

    But that’s really my original point – that I hope the show explains a little more clearly what the rules of this second timeline are, and how it relates to the first timeline, how it relates to WHH and course correction and all the other “rules” we were told about in the first 5 seasons. And with 16 hours to go, I do have faith that the writers will shed more light on this whole issue.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Agreed.

    BTW, the course correction IMO is more than 20 or 30 people. The Alt time line is the result of the Losties being able to change the past, so everyone is effected…sort of a butterfly effect. Example: the island is under water and now that the Losties have seemingly different personalities and the fact that they are now off the island living their lives, they will effect the world differently.

  359. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370239"]

    Also, if we are to believe in these alternate realities/universes, then there should be in infinite amount of Jacks, Kates, Hurleys, and Lockes… why only show us two?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I think they are only showing us two because the story being told is that the incident created only one extra time line…the one that would happen IF they were successful in changing the past. That is ‘rule’ of their story.

  360. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370242"][quote comment="370239"]Toeknee, well put – I feel the same way, a little bit cheated that the writers are asking us to assume that their post-bomb lives would be almost identical to their island lives, 40 years later. Though alternate universes, time traveling, etc, are not simple concepts, this idea still defies reason.

    Also, if we are to believe in these alternate realities/universes, then there should be in infinite amount of Jacks, Kates, Hurleys, and Lockes… why only show us two?[/quote]

    Thanks Mal. I don’t even want to think about more than one alternate timeline, but you’re right, why couldn’t there be several timelines? I had no problem understanding the single timeline/whatever happened happened theories espoused by Dr. Chang and Daniel last season. I completely bought into it and really enjoyed that part of the show. So it’s gonna take me some time to adjust to the fact that they were apparently wrong.[/quote]

    I agree yet again! Viewers rely on explanations given by intillectual authorities in shows like this… if you take away that, if you shrug your shoulders and say “I guess they were wrong”, then you take away an important element of structure. When Farraday told everyone “whatever happens, happens, you can’t change the past”, he said so with conviction! The viewers needed that to understand the story and form their opinions about the plot. To have these authorities of reason just be wrong?

    I get that the appeal of this program is mystery, but there needs to be a point where the viewer thinks he’s privy to some of the concepts.

  361. Mal says:

    But, I guess that’s one of the themes of the show… the science vs faith duality… and neither is always right, you can’t trust blindly, etc.

    I guess. I just wisht there were more definites!

  362. Yermama says:

    I just read all 300+ comments, so apologies if I missed this and I am repeating a point: When Miles “read” dead Juliet, didn’t we hear the smoke monster sound as he was doing the reading?? I don’t recall that sound in his flashback when he did readings.
    If so, it raises some questions about Juliet: (1) related to the smoke monster, or (2) further establishes the smoke monster as some instrument of karma???

  363. Cherry-Miss.Awesome says:

    Got a Question : if Locke went on the walkabout in the ALTREALITY did Mattew Abbadon suggest locke to go on the walkabout or did something else influence locke to take the walkabout idk its been bothering me

  364. Miraks says:

    Few thoughts.
    1- When did the island sink? I don’t think it was when the bomb went off/ didn’t go off.
    2- The more important question I guess is, when is this alternate time-line flight 815 taking place? Is it the same date as before? What if it is taking place in 2007, or 2008? Could that have anything to do with the island being under water?

  365. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370219"]Did Bernard call Rose Viv? I swear he said, “I missed you too Viv.”[/quote]

    ***
    think he said “beautiful”

  366. Miss lost says:

    Rewatched the episode last night and my head is still realing.

    Not sure if I think “it worked” means the bomb went off or Juliette is now free as in death she has life.

    I just have a hard time buying that the bomb went off…and when Jin tells Hurley they moved thru time…
    maybe the accident at the swan still happens (thus Kate being up in the tree) and the hatch being built, but the island course corrects the losties to their correct time?

    On Sayid-when they put him in the pool(fountain of youth?) it was like he was being batized, washed away of sins, healed, and reborn. But the water was not clear (pure) and my daughter said it looked like blood and then she said “maybe it is the blood of Christ?” Interesting since Jacob had been killed. When the carrid Sayid out it was very “christlike” the way his arms were outstreched and then they layed him on a tapestry (shroud?).
    Not sure that I think Jacob is now Sayid, but something very powerful happened to him. I also think there is something to the fact that Miles had a strange look on his face after they thought Sayid was dead…he knows something…either he heard Sayid’s last thoughts or he didn’t and Sayid was not really dead?
    I use ? marks because that is all these are…questions…just thinking outloud.

  367. Hammer says:

    Miss Lost, interesting @ Miles. I was pondering the scene where Hugo tells dead Sayid if wants to talk he’ll be around. Then he sees the look on Miles’ face and asks “What?”. I am guessing Miles was either baffled that Hugo can talk to the dead too, or he in fact heard Sayid talk. The problem is Miles usually has to go through a ritual to hear the dead. So that would be inconsistent, yet still possible.

  368. Miss lost says:

    Maybe I should reread post before I post to correct typos and spelling. grr…sorry…just get on a roll and hit “submit!”

  369. PatRojan says:

    First time poster, long time reader…

    After reading all 300+ comments and then reading the article at ew.com, I re-watched the episodes and really feel like I have some clarity.

    In an earlier post that quoted the ew.com article, it says something to the effect of “poor, self-centered losties. The thought that blowing up the bomb will only effect them…” makes me feel comfortable in understanding that,for example, Shannon is not on the plane because something else in her life occured due to the change of the world (by way of the bomb). The same goes for the other changes that we are seeing. I made the mistake originally of assuming that everyone’s back story in “LA X” was the same backstory as in Season 1. My guess, and hope, is that Season 6 will offer character-driven flashbacks but there will be subtle differences. The title of Epsisode 2 is called “What Kate Does”, which is that subtle difference I am hopeful for.

    We want to think we know these characters, and maybe at their core of who they are, we do. But I think Season 6 will be filled with parallels of their Season 1 personas.

    One last idea – has anyone other than me ever considered that Locke’s mother and Ben’s mother are one in the same? For some reason I’ve been fixated on this idea for many many years. I just can’t shake it!

  370. Yermama says:

    [quote comment="370252"]Rewatched the episode last night and my head is still realing.

    Not sure if I think “it worked” means the bomb went off or Juliette is now free as in death she has life.

    I just have a hard time buying that the bomb went off…and when Jin tells Hurley they moved thru time…
    maybe the accident at the swan still happens (thus Kate being up in the tree) and the hatch being built, but the island course corrects the losties to their correct time?

    On Sayid-when they put him in the pool(fountain of youth?) it was like he was being batized, washed away of sins, healed, and reborn. But the water was not clear (pure) and my daughter said it looked like blood and then she said “maybe it is the blood of Christ?” Interesting since Jacob had been killed. When the carrid Sayid out it was very “christlike” the way his arms were outstreched and then they layed him on a tapestry (shroud?).
    [/quote]

    We noticed the Christ-like posture as well….very striking. We also wondered if Miles had heard something here.

    Art Directors on the show are too meticulous to allow Jack and Sawyer’s hair be so long compared to Ep. 1 in Season 1 for the longer hair not to mean something regards time of this flight.

  371. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370255"]One last idea – has anyone other than me ever considered that Locke’s mother and Ben’s mother are one in the same? For some reason I’ve been fixated on this idea for many many years. I just can’t shake it![/quote]

    It has been discussed here in the past. Both were named Emily. Both were blonde. Ben’s mother died in childbirth. Later Locke’s mother (played by Swoozie Kurtz) shows up and this was where there was a lot of discussion. Some said that Locke’s dad Cooper could have hired her to *play* Locke’s dad to lure him to the transplant. Others disagreed because the private investigator had DNA evidence (which could have been forged).

    At any rate, I feel like it probably won’t be a major part of the rest of the story simply because the clip shows and “previously on” clips are well-crafted, and if Emily Locke / Emily Linus were going to play a role, I think the viewers would have been reminded about them. JMO.

    : ) P

  372. PatRojan says:

    [quote comment="370258"][quote comment="370255"]One last idea – has anyone other than me ever considered that Locke’s mother and Ben’s mother are one in the same? For some reason I’ve been fixated on this idea for many many years. I just can’t shake it![/quote]

    It has been discussed here in the past. Both were named Emily. Both were blonde. Ben’s mother died in childbirth. Later Locke’s mother (played by Swoozie Kurtz) shows up and this was where there was a lot of discussion. Some said that Locke’s dad Cooper could have hired her to *play* Locke’s dad to lure him to the transplant. Others disagreed because the private investigator had DNA evidence (which could have been forged).

    At any rate, I feel like it probably won’t be a major part of the rest of the story simply because the clip shows and “previously on” clips are well-crafted, and if Emily Locke / Emily Linus were going to play a role, I think the viewers would have been reminded about them. JMO.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Thanks for the refresher, and you are absolutely right about the “previously on” clips giving us the info we need. I’m confident it’s a storyline non-issue, but I just can’t let it go :-)

  373. Jason says:

    [quote comment="370213"][quote comment="370209"]I agree the hatch got built. kate realizes it is the hatch when she sees the door that Daniel spoke to Desmond at when he told him to go find his mother.[/quote]

    Good catch, Duke. I had forgotten that. So the hatch was built, which means that if the bomb did explode, it didn’t change that part of the island’s history.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    So the bomb didn’t explode…….they just flashed.

  374. Lola says:

    [quote comment="370253"]Miss Lost, interesting @ Miles. I was pondering the scene where Hugo tells dead Sayid if wants to talk he’ll be around. Then he sees the look on Miles’ face and asks “What?”. I am guessing Miles was either baffled that Hugo can talk to the dead too, or he in fact heard Sayid talk. The problem is Miles usually has to go through a ritual to hear the dead. So that would be inconsistent, yet still possible.[/quote]

    I think that Miles looked baffled because he COULDN’T read Sayid as dead, and we now know why… he’s not.

  375. little prince says:

    In one of the 1st episodes Michael says to Walt..”whenever this rain stops ill find your dog”…right then the rain stops…also when locke goes to see walt later in season 5 on the street…walt is walking away…stops…feels locke looking at him…then turns around and looks directly at him…where the hells walt. I want some answers as to why he can control the rain and do the wierd creepy things hes done whenever hes on the show.

    i keep remembering Claires dream…the one that Locke has one black and one white eye..theres something to that..

    also…anyone notice the solid beam of light that shined down directly over the guys head that used the small circle of ash when smokey hit it…looked an awful lot like a reference to some higher authority making sure the rules are being followed

  376. PJSander says:

    I am TOTALLY poaching this from a friend, so cannot take credit for the thought process, but I feel like it is brilliant and want to get your thoughts…

    What if…

    what we saw in S6E01 was *NOT* two separate timelines?

    What if…

    a) the bomb (1977) changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)

    b) there is a *new* 2004 – which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane

    but

    c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 (which we have not yet seen) brings them to the beginning of the episode (Kate in a tree, etc.)

    In other words, What Happened, HAPPENED. The three years (2004 to 2007) were then course corrected to get THOSE people to THAT spot?

    Daniel Faraday was right all along?

    : ) P

  377. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370180"]In the alternate timeline, the reason there is no island anymore is b/c of the 815 passengers, right? Does that mean they still have to go to the island to do that? The alternate timeline wouldn’t be possible without them being on the island in 77, right? I would love to hear what people think, as I am very confused. I really think the two timelines should meet up somehow, but I am not really seeing how its possible.[/quote]

    If you watch Fringe which also deals in alternate world’s not everything is the same. There is a shot in the alt. world of the twins towers. My point being just because it happens inone timeline doesn’t mean it affects the other one.

  378. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370263"]I am TOTALLY poaching this from a friend, so cannot take credit for the thought process, but I feel like it is brilliant and want to get your thoughts…

    What if…

    what we saw in S6E01 was *NOT* two separate timelines?

    What if…

    a) the bomb (1977) changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)

    b) there is a *new* 2004 – which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane

    but

    c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 (which we have not yet seen) brings them to the beginning of the episode (Kate in a tree, etc.)

    In other words, What Happened, HAPPENED. The three years (2004 to 2007) were then course corrected to get THOSE people to THAT spot?

    Daniel Faraday was right all along?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    That is just brilliant and makes TONS of sense to me. Thank your friend. (wink, wink)

  379. RGS says:

    re: the possible good smokey and bad smokey. A difference could be that the bad smokey actually kills, while the good smokey only tries to subdue the adversary. So when Ben summoned the smoke monster against the mercenaries, that smoke monster just beat them up but it didn’t kill them, even though they were firing at it. Just a random thought.

  380. Lily says:

    [quote comment="370265"][quote comment="370263"]I am TOTALLY poaching this from a friend, so cannot take credit for the thought process, but I feel like it is brilliant and want to get your thoughts…

    What if…

    what we saw in S6E01 was *NOT* two separate timelines?

    What if…

    a) the bomb (1977) changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)

    b) there is a *new* 2004 – which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane

    but

    c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 (which we have not yet seen) brings them to the beginning of the episode (Kate in a tree, etc.)

    In other words, What Happened, HAPPENED. The three years (2004 to 2007) were then course corrected to get THOSE people to THAT spot?

    Daniel Faraday was right all along?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    That is just brilliant and makes TONS of sense to me. Thank your friend. (wink, wink)[/quote]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I love this idea too! The scenes from the island could basically be flash forwards.

    But then wouldn’t they remember things going differently? It might end up with the same result but through different experiences, which I would think they’d remember… or maybe not. idk but its a very cool idea

  381. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="370267"][quote comment="370265"][quote comment="370263"]I am TOTALLY poaching this from a friend, so cannot take credit for the thought process, but I feel like it is brilliant and want to get your thoughts…

    What if…

    what we saw in S6E01 was *NOT* two separate timelines?

    What if…

    a) the bomb (1977) changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)

    b) there is a *new* 2004 – which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane

    but

    c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 (which we have not yet seen) brings them to the beginning of the episode (Kate in a tree, etc.)

    In other words, What Happened, HAPPENED. The three years (2004 to 2007) were then course corrected to get THOSE people to THAT spot?

    Daniel Faraday was right all along?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    That is just brilliant and makes TONS of sense to me. Thank your friend. (wink, wink)[/quote]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I love this idea too! The scenes from the island could basically be flash forwards.

    But then wouldn’t they remember things going differently? It might end up with the same result but through different experiences, which I would think they’d remember… or maybe not. idk but its a very cool idea[/quote]

    But then the island that is under water during the LA-X timeline would have to rise up out of the water for the group to meet in 2007.

  382. Hammer says:

    @ Lily, yup but LOST has introduced ‘forgetting’ via Faraday and Des.

    @Pterradon, yup which may have happened before which would explain the Black Rock in the middle of the island.

  383. DocH says:

    Two points:

    1) The bomb (Jughead) is back in the cave. So no bomb went off — Juliet was pounding on the DETONATOR – not the BOMB. You would be hard pressed to blow up anything bigger than a hybrid car with that detonator. It is where they placed the detonator that caused (or not) the effect they wanted.

    2) Walkabouts. Denied wheelchair Locke was sent from walkabouts to 815. If he did go on a walkabout as he boasted (lied) to Boone – he would still be in the outback, not on 815. The walkabout is in progress as 815 flys.

  384. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370263"]I am TOTALLY poaching this from a friend, so cannot take credit for the thought process, but I feel like it is brilliant and want to get your thoughts…

    What if…

    what we saw in S6E01 was *NOT* two separate timelines?

    What if…

    a) the bomb (1977) changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)

    b) there is a *new* 2004 – which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane

    but

    c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 (which we have not yet seen) brings them to the beginning of the episode (Kate in a tree, etc.)

    In other words, What Happened, HAPPENED. The three years (2004 to 2007) were then course corrected to get THOSE people to THAT spot?

    Daniel Faraday was right all along?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    This also supports my thinking that all the Losties that died on the island will now die off the island (Shannon, Locke, Charlie, Libby, etc.) because when the Losties go back to the island in 2007…WHH and course correction are still valid.

  385. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370267"]
    I love this idea too! The scenes from the island could basically be flash forwards.

    But then wouldn’t they remember things going differently? It might end up with the same result but through different experiences, which I would think they’d remember… or maybe not. idk but its a very cool idea[/quote]

    Well yes. The 2007 LOSTies that we saw on Tuesday night would have different pasts that got them there than *we* have seen.

    : ) P

  386. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370271"][quote comment="370263"]

    [/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    This also supports my thinking that all the Losties that died on the island will now die off the island (Shannon, Locke, Charlie, Libby, etc.) because when the Losties go back to the island in 2007…WHH and course correction are still valid.[/quote]

    I do not follow… please hepp me to understand because it seems like a very intruiguing concept (if I could wrap my head around it).

    So you are thinking that in between 2004 and 2007, things transpire so that the ‘new’ crop of Losties find themselves where we see them in the beginning of the episode?

    Meaning that they all land in LAX and go about their business, which leads to their Swan experience three years later?

    But why would they still be wearing Dharma suits? and why would Kate be talking about Desmond and the failsafe key?

    I just don’t see how it can pan out in 16 episodes and how it can fit into the story (and make sense!).

  387. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370265"][quote comment="370263"]I am TOTALLY poaching this from a friend, so cannot take credit for the thought process, but I feel like it is brilliant and want to get your thoughts…

    What if…

    what we saw in S6E01 was *NOT* two separate timelines?

    What if…

    a) the bomb (1977) changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)

    b) there is a *new* 2004 – which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane

    but

    c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 (which we have not yet seen) brings them to the beginning of the episode (Kate in a tree, etc.)

    In other words, What Happened, HAPPENED. The three years (2004 to 2007) were then course corrected to get THOSE people to THAT spot?

    Daniel Faraday was right all along?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    That is just brilliant and makes TONS of sense to me. Thank your friend. (wink, wink)[/quote]
    ________________________
    Hammer, are you the “friend”? I need to know before I reply to this – if it’s not your theory, I’ll agree that it’s brilliant, but if it is yours I’ll have to do my best to pick it apart. (just kidding of course)

    But seriously this is an interesting idea and I’ll have to give it some thought. But I have to say I do like the part about WHH and Faraday’s theories (pre-Variable) being correct.

  388. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370273"][quote comment="370271"][quote comment="370263"]

    [/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    This also supports my thinking that all the Losties that died on the island will now die off the island (Shannon, Locke, Charlie, Libby, etc.) because when the Losties go back to the island in 2007…WHH and course correction are still valid.[/quote]

    I do not follow… please hepp me to understand because it seems like a very intruiguing concept (if I could wrap my head around it).

    So you are thinking that in between 2004 and 2007, things transpire so that the ‘new’ crop of Losties find themselves where we see them in the beginning of the episode?

    Meaning that they all land in LAX and go about their business, which leads to their Swan experience three years later?

    But why would they still be wearing Dharma suits? and why would Kate be talking about Desmond and the failsafe key?

    I just don’t see how it can pan out in 16 episodes and how it can fit into the story (and make sense!).[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Haven’t worked out all the details yet. But maybe this is what always happened…meaning all of it…including the 2004 to 2007 being relived and they will eventually remember all of it ala Faraday. They will end up at the beginning of the episode getting ready to help fight the big war over the island.

  389. Hammer says:

    No Toeknee, not mine. I winked because the theory is a mutual friend of PJs. So run with it!!

  390. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370276"]No Toeknee, not mine. I winked because the theory is a mutual friend of PJs. So run with it!![/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    I should have said (in my best Seinfeld voice)…”Toeknee.” (like Newman) LOL.

  391. Lily says:

    [quote comment="370269"]@ Lily, yup but LOST has introduced ‘forgetting’ via Faraday and Des.

    @Pterradon, yup which may have happened before which would explain the Black Rock in the middle of the island.[/quote]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Both good points!

    Someone was talking about the island being moved to the bottom of the ocean, so maybe it gets moved back. No idea how… But this is the best idea I’ve heard about where the Black Rock comes from. Nice Hammer :)

    Another thought, do we know for sure that the flight is taking place in 2004? Yermama (post 369) mentioned the differences in haircuts, which I agree would not be there for no reason. Maybe that is happening in the future… Wouldn’t explain how Charlie is alive though.

  392. L AX says:

    I have been reading this blog for a while now and truly enjoy all the ideas/theories that flow from here after each episode. Some thoughts:

    On 2 Smokies (good/bad)

    I disagree with this theory. I think there is only one smokey, the Man in Black (MIB). Three reasons this makes sense to me:

    1. The producers have gone out of their way in letting us know MIB is smokey (Flocke telling Ben “I am sorry you had to see me like this”)

    2. the smokey who “judges” does it not because he is good and righteous but because its self-serving. Remember when smokey judges Eko. When smokey realized Eko would not be the one who would fullfill the loop-hole aka kill Jacob he kills Eko. Recall smokey as Eko’s brother telling him “why do you talk to me as if I was your brother?” Eko relizes this when he is dying and warns Locke.

    3. Why would “the others” activate the smokey-keep-out-fence (at camp Dharma), and have the ashes so readily available when Hugo warns tells them Jacob is dead?

    Jacob/Sayid

    It makes a lot more sense if Jacob remains “unseen” and communicates through Hugo. This explains teh impotance if Hugo’s gift and why he ended up in the island (twice). It also makes for a more assertive Hugo whick I like.

    It also makes jacob a sort of Azlan figure which you could argue is exactly what the producers hinted at with Charlotte Lewis…

  393. little prince says:

    i dont know how to quote and reply yet..but im chiming in here about the Island rising out of the water and the scene from the plane being a flash forward…if the black rock was a ship from the 1800’s…and the island is under water in 2004..or 2007..whenever it is…how does it rise up from underneath it…for this theory to be correct…the black rock would have to be sailing in 2007…so i think that disproves it right away….but im probly wrong cause i usually am with this show….
    what was the deal with kates ears too…when she woke up in the tree…no other flash left anyones ears like that before…kinda sounded muffled like they were underwater….thoughts…onions…?

  394. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370263"]I am TOTALLY poaching this from a friend, so cannot take credit for the thought process, but I feel like it is brilliant and want to get your thoughts…

    What if…

    what we saw in S6E01 was *NOT* two separate timelines?

    What if…

    a) the bomb (1977) changed SOMETHING (whether or not it went off)

    b) there is a *new* 2004 – which we saw with some of the LOSTies on the plane

    but

    c) what transpires BETWEEN that new 2004 and 2007 (which we have not yet seen) brings them to the beginning of the episode (Kate in a tree, etc.)

    In other words, What Happened, HAPPENED. The three years (2004 to 2007) were then course corrected to get THOSE people to THAT spot?

    Daniel Faraday was right all along?

    : ) P[/quote]

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it sounds like the basic idea is that the bomb did change things. If there aren’t two separate timelines and there’s a new 2004, then isn’t the new 2004 replacing the previous 2004? I’ll agree that this is a possibility (although personally I don’t think this is what happened), but if this is the case, then WHH is not true. Or am I missing something?

    Also, like Lily and Mal said, if this theory is true, the Losties in 2007 wouldn’t remember things the way they did in this episode. Their conversations in this episode (e.g., the issue of whether or not it’s Jack’s fault Juliet and Sayid (almost) died) clearly show that they remembered what happened during “The Incident”.

  395. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370273"]So you are thinking that in between 2004 and 2007, things transpire so that the ‘new’ crop of Losties find themselves where we see them in the beginning of the episode?[/quote]

    Yes.

    [quote comment="370273"]Meaning that they all land in LAX and go about their business, which leads to their Swan experience three years later?[/quote]

    Yes.

    [quote comment="370273"]But why would they still be wearing Dharma suits? and why would Kate be talking about Desmond and the failsafe key?[/quote]

    Their *new* path must lead them to these things. This same friend has also suggested that it was JULIET who turned the fail safe key in 2007 – explaining the hatch detritus, as well as their hearing issues.

    [quote comment="370273"]I just don’t see how it can pan out in 16 episodes and how it can fit into the story (and make sense!).[/quote]

    Well they really don’t have to show us EVERYTHING. They can show us key plot points which sync them up with where they are now.

    Toeknee, I welcome your efforts to pull this theory apart, but to me, it holds some serious water.

    : ) P

  396. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370275"][quote comment="370273"][quote comment="370271"][quote comment="370263"]

    [/quote]
    quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Haven’t worked out all the details yet. But maybe this is what always happened…meaning all of it…including the 2004 to 2007 being relived and they will eventually remember all of it ala Faraday. They will end up at the beginning of the episode getting ready to help fight the big war over the island.[/quote]

    Ahh… well, keep us posted on the progress of this theory! I do like the thought of it, and I especially the part about Farraday being right… after all, whose word can we trust if not a tie wearing spastic genius physicist?!

  397. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370281"]Also, like Lily and Mal said, if this theory is true, the Losties in 2007 wouldn’t remember things the way they did in this episode. Their conversations in this episode (e.g., the issue of whether or not it’s Jack’s fault Juliet and Sayid (almost) died) clearly show that they remembered what happened during “The Incident”.[/quote]

    I plan to go watch the episode through these new eyes, but as was the case with the simultaneous flashback/flashforward in Ji Yeon (or The Sixth Sense), I think that it is possible for there to be a way that those EXACT conversations can make sense even with a different reality in the intervening three years.

    I *so* do not have time to watch the episode right now, but I will at least fast forward to the relevant conversations.

    As for the “different haircuts” and Cindy not wearing a scarf, etc. I think that these things were replicated to a DEGREE to get us to buy in to this being 2004, but not so perfectly that we don’t understand that this is NOT the past as we were shown it in season one.

    : ) P

  398. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370270"]Two points:

    1) The bomb (Jughead) is back in the cave. So no bomb went off — Juliet was pounding on the DETONATOR – not the BOMB. You would be hard pressed to blow up anything bigger than a hybrid car with that detonator. It is where they placed the detonator that caused (or not) the effect they wanted.

    [/quote]
    I don’t understand enough about bombs to speak intelligently on this issue (although that never stopped me from talking about many other issues), but….

    If what you’re saying is true, does this mean that Faraday’s instructions on how to remove the “core” (or whatever they called it) were wrong? And does this mean that Sayid, who had for 5 seasons been portrayed as a nearly-infallible supersoldier type, was also wrong in his role in removing the core?

  399. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370280"]i dont know how to quote and reply yet..but im chiming in here about the Island rising out of the water and the scene from the plane being a flash forward…if the black rock was a ship from the 1800’s…and the island is under water in 2004..or 2007..whenever it is…how does it rise up from underneath it…for this theory to be correct…the black rock would have to be sailing in 2007…so i think that disproves it right away….but im probly wrong cause i usually am with this show….
    what was the deal with kates ears too…when she woke up in the tree…no other flash left anyones ears like that before…kinda sounded muffled like they were underwater….thoughts…onions…?[/quote]

    ****
    Jin does say that flashes make that sound when he was explaining it to Hurley.

  400. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370284"][quote comment="370281"]Also, like Lily and Mal said, if this theory is true, the Losties in 2007 wouldn’t remember things the way they did in this episode. Their conversations in this episode (e.g., the issue of whether or not it’s Jack’s fault Juliet and Sayid (almost) died) clearly show that they remembered what happened during “The Incident”.[/quote]

    I plan to go watch the episode through these new eyes, but as was the case with the simultaneous flashback/flashforward in Ji Yeon (or The Sixth Sense), I think that it is possible for there to be a way that those EXACT conversations can make sense even with a different reality in the intervening three years.

    I *so* do not have time to watch the episode right now, but I will at least fast forward to the relevant conversations.

    As for the “different haircuts” and Cindy not wearing a scarf, etc. I think that these things were replicated to a DEGREE to get us to buy in to this being 2004, but not so perfectly that we don’t understand that this is NOT the past as we were shown it in season one.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ______________________________
    I was planning on rewatching this weekend, and I will keep an eye out for things that may prove or disprove the theory. One thing I do remember is Miles calling Sawyer boss.

    And yes, I wouldn’t put any stock in the fact that haircuts or clothes were different in this version of OA815. I mean, if something as significant as Shannon choosing not to go on the flight occurred, then there would be countless insignificant things like Cindy’s scarf or Charlie’s hair that would be different.

  401. Miss lost says:

    I can buy the WHH theroy; and I do think somehow they are in a timeloop and it is why Faraday wrote things down so as he reincountered them he would know when and where things occured.
    i think Juliette was always there and it is why Ben had such a fascination with her.

    I think those in the know kept records and that is how they knew or know when events were going to happen.

    The variable being the people make small changes here and there that do alter some things slightly but in the end WHH!

    We keep seeing things getting course corrected as I think we saw in the new plane sequence…jack is more like we left him…a bit shaken and unsure. Hurley is now lucky or more sure of himself as he is on island…Sun and Jin are not married or together just like they are not together yet on island…

    the current events are the unknown because the variables changed drastically this time…rules were changed and for the first time in a long time no one knows what will happen.
    So I guess I think the losties are in present day 2007 and getting ready to help save the Island, but that we are seeing a part of the time loop (them repeating events like the plane, even though it landed…I think we will see more evidence of the same things happeneing… ie… Kate will deliver Claires baby)
    Time travel is exhausting…the muffled sounds and headache are soo true;)

  402. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    ok…i like the theory in 375, but wouldn’t that mean that our LOSTies, in “current island time”, might act a little different since they have potentially different pasts? wouldn’t it also mean that there would have to be some other time sayid gets shot for them to take him to the temple? (this is all assuming i got the theory right, which is doubtful!)

    but i too have been wondering if the sideways flash happened before our season one 815 flight.

    and for the record, i DO think the bomb went off (and triggered a time flash). my biggest proof is the fact that the sound was so deafening to everyone; that effect was never used before during time flashes.
    i mean…if they can get flashed out of ajira, then they can get flashed out of a bombsplosion.

  403. little prince says:

    ok…someone explain how if the island is underwater right now in 2004 or 2007…how it rises under the blackrock?
    the black rock was sailing in the 1800’s…so…this theory has to be wrong…right…

    also..notice how they threw a CGI shark right next to the foot statue…any thoughts on jacob being evil as well…neither one of these 2 Jacob or MIB show any emotion during death…they dont care about anyone else but themselves…When Sayids broad died…jacob called him over…allowing it to happen…leaving no chance for Sayid to make a “choice”…both these guys are playin a sadistic chess game and our characters are the pieces…both these two are evil…just like Locke had both black and white pieces when he was talking to walt…also in claires dream he had black and white eyes…when they find the stones on the bodies the black and white are together….every character in this show is portrayed as both good and evil..i dont know where im going with this but…maybe..its not just black and white…maybe theres ALOT of gray

  404. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    re WHH, yes…daniel believed that with conviction, but when he came back later, he realized that it isn’t true because of The Variable.

  405. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    if the Lockeness Monster runs back inside the foot to pee, and jacob is simultaneously talking to hurley by the van about bringing sayid to the temple, then i’m guessing that hurley was talking to smoky (as jacob) instead of jacob.
    guess we’ll have to see.

  406. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    btw this is shellonius funk.

  407. LINS says:

    [quote comment="370280"]i dont know how to quote and reply yet..but im chiming in here about the Island rising out of the water and the scene from the plane being a flash forward…if the black rock was a ship from the 1800’s…and the island is under water in 2004..or 2007..whenever it is…how does it rise up from underneath it…for this theory to be correct…the black rock would have to be sailing in 2007…so i think that disproves it right away…?[/quote]

    I think perhaps what Hammer meant (and correct me if I’m wrong), was that the island rising up out of the water may have happened before (prior to 2004), which is perhaps how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the island.

  408. DocH says:

    re: Two Smokies (good/bad)

    If there is only one… why did it peacefully find Locke and let him ‘look into the eye of the island’ (essentially recruit him)? – then – just a few weeks later, grab him and try to drag him down the Cerberus Vent?

  409. little prince says:

    i dont get it…im LOST…they really utilize the name of this show..

  410. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    DocH

    maybe the first encounter was so that he could “read” him in the sense that he was recording his memories, etc. wasn’t he alone at that time?

    and the second time he was with jack & the gang. so i’m sure smoky wanted to still appear as a threat.

    i’m not sure how many smokies there are; just trying to talk it out.

  411. DocH says:

    [quote comment="370285"]
    [/quote]
    I don’t understand enough about bombs… [/quote]
    The ‘core’ of the bomb (detonator) provides a very strong (but small) explosion – that initiates the nuclear chain reaction in the fissionable materiel that surrounds it. (aka big explosion)

    Daniel and Sayid appear to have done very well for themselves… as the detonator was removed – and the Uranium leaking, fissionable Jughead was left in the cave.

  412. PJSander says:

    Okay, so I have watched the first hour of JUST the post explosion side of things. There are a few things that are said which relate directly to the past as we know it. However, any of those things COULD be explained away with a variation of the past.

    For example, Kate says they are at the hatch after Desmond blew it up.

    At first glance that sounds like the past as we know it, but in the “new” reality, Desmond could blown up the hatch.

    Another example, Hurley, at Jacob’s urging, asks Jin if he knew about the hole in the wall where he was with the French team.

    Again, if 1977 were different, then maybe Rousseau’s team arrives and spends years on the island blissfully happy and later encounter Jin. We saw Montand’s armless body, but we didn’t see his arm!

    So far, the theory still looks brilliant to me!

    : P

  413. L AX says:

    RE:re: Two Smokies (good/bad)

    The way I see it MIB and Jacob are fighting over something using our beloved castaways as chest peices. each trying to best the other. MIB uses smokey as a tool to get what he wants (whether it be kicking arrse or “helping” Locke) just like Jacob “touches” the pieces he sees fit to aid him beat the MIB.

    I can see the aguement as to smokey maybe just being a security system but my feeling is it was just the MIB the whole time setting up the loophole and final checkmate.

  414. Liz says:

    Is the one thing that both timelines have in common that in 1977 “something” happened to create 2 timelines?

    So in the alternative timeline, things are very different than the original BUT the one similarity could be that back in the alt. timeline’s 1977, the island still existed, right?

    Could it be possible that the way the two timelines end up converging (everything must converge!) is that in 2007 of the alt. timeline(or i guess it could be in any time of the alt. timeline), the losties go back to the island in 77 (so there would be two sets of losties on the island at the same time?), and somehow rig it so the bomb will not explode and therefore, the incident does happen which leads us to our orignial losties flashing back to 2007 (where they were in the episode at the hatch)?

    I’m sure there are many inconsistancies with this idea… but its kind of interesting, right? :)

  415. ninny says:

    What was the book that Des was reading on the plane?

    Sun seemed almost happy on the plane – not like she was when they were in Australia airport and I don’t think she knew English for real. Good catch on the Miss Paik!

    Sorry if someone has already thought of this but according to what we saw last season, it looked like the only reason Locke survived the fall in the first place was because of Jacob – no island, no Jacob.

    As far as Eloise and Widmore go – they were on the island in 1977 so they would have been sunk also. No Daniel Faraday, no Penny, no Penny and Des, no reason for Des to sail around the world.

    Also remember the episode Enter 77 with Patchy?
    1977- year of hostiles and the incident – just thought it was interesting :-)

  416. LostDamery says:

    Lots of good theories, but I am still sticking with the plane group is what happens if the island is destroyed. The story on the island is a past time line that takes you to the destruction and subsequent sinking of the island that is seen at the very beginning.
    The MIB and Jacob will continue using the people of the island as pieces of a games. Going back and forth from black to white till it all goes under.

  417. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370303"]What was the book that Des was reading on the plane?

    Sun seemed almost happy on the plane – not like she was when they were in Australia airport and I don’t think she knew English for real. Good catch on the Miss Paik!

    Sorry if someone has already thought of this but according to what we saw last season, it looked like the only reason Locke survived the fall in the first place was because of Jacob – no island, no Jacob.

    As far as Eloise and Widmore go – they were on the island in 1977 so they would have been sunk also. No Daniel Faraday, no Penny, no Penny and Des, no reason for Des to sail around the world.

    Also remember the episode Enter 77 with Patchy?
    1977- year of hostiles and the incident – just thought it was interesting :-)[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++=
    I am assuming that Locke got his injury in a different way than being pushed out the window. Point being, things are different yet the same result. No need for Jacob to save Locke, Locke’s fate is to be crippled and alive. WHH, course correction.

  418. LostJunkie says:

    In the airport there’s no question that the woman calls Sun “Paik”, but doesn’t she also say something to the effect of “if you can understand me, you might want to say something to help your husband”?

  419. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370306"]In the airport there’s no question that the woman calls Sun “Paik”, but doesn’t she also say something to the effect of “if you can understand me, you might want to say something to help your husband”?[/quote]

    Transcript according to LOSTpedia:

    (Sun speaks Korean to Jin – sub: Why…why do you have all that money? – Jin responds: I will handle this.)

    CUSTOMS-AGENT: Sir, you’re gonna have to come with me, let’s go have a talk.

    (Jin speaks Korean – sub: I don’t have time for this…)

    CUSTOMS-AGENT: Take her to the waiting area.

    FEMALE-CUSTOMS-AGENT: Ms. Paik, do you understand any English? Because if you do, if this is just a misunderstanding, you should speak up now. Do you understand me?

    : ) P

    SUN: No…English.

  420. Hammer says:

    The first thing I thought when Sun said No….english was she that she was using Clinton speak. The pause makes it have two meanings

  421. LostJunkie says:

    PJSander,

    Thanks. I thought she said “husband” in there somewhere but obviously that is not the case. So it does appear that they aren’t married. Interesting.

  422. Mateo says:

    Some random thoughts:

    Flocke asked Richard where were his chains,…
    Slaves built the pyramids, maybe Richard was an egyption slave who helped build the temple? or maybe with LOST it is a metaphore, Richard works for him or is indebted to him and has to be his slave for eternity.
    I like thinking Richard is an egyption although he does have the Johny Depp pirate eyeliner so he could be from the Black Rock (maybe even one of the skeletons chained up?)

    Definitely a major theme is good vs. evil, so many black and white rocks seen throughout all the seasons, problem is, good and evil isnt so black & white.

    It bothers me that Richard visits Lock and is frustrated and disappointed, there has to be an answer to this, any thoughts?

    Adam & Eve I believe are Rose & Bernard. I somewhat remember each of them separately picking up either a black or white rock, which were found by the bodies.

    Remember Richard said he saw the remaining Losties die, I;m a believer in WHH so I am forced to either think the alternate course on the plane is the one that will play out, or somehow they converge and eventually the Losties die before Richard’s eyes. Either way, they are as good as dead on the island IMO.

    I don’t know why but I have a feeling we will see the real Locke again (on the island, not on the plane), but I’m forced to think in another time. I miss the real Locke but still think he is more important than even up until now.

    What do yall think?
    Thanks for having this blog up, sooo many great ideas from everyone that makes your imagination go in ways you would never have imagined..

  423. LINS says:

    [quote comment="370309"]PJSander,

    Thanks. I thought she said “husband” in there somewhere but obviously that is not the case. So it does appear that they aren’t married. Interesting.[/quote]

    **********
    From Wikipedia:
    Korean women do not change their names upon marriage. By name alone, a woman cannot be identified as someone’s wife. Neither are they addressed in a fashion similar to ‘Mrs. (Husband’s family name)’. They are simply addressed by their family name; however, it is more specifically ‘wife of (husband’s family name)’ or ‘(child’s name)’s mom’, when the relation has to be known. Women emigrating to cultures where it is customary to take on their husband’s names may choose not to change, especially if they are professionals. However, they may let themselves be addressed as ‘Mrs. (husband’s family name)’ in addition to, for example, ‘Dr. (her maiden name)’.

    This may be the reason that she was referred to as Ms. Paik, her birth name was probably the name on her passport, doesn’t mean they weren’t married.

  424. Hammer says:

    Just a reminder…regardless of what is going on with the alternate time line, the surviving Losties are on the island to help fight in the up coming ‘war’ over the island.

    MIB is waging war and now that Jacob is dead, I think he can only advise his ‘side’.

  425. LostJunkie says:

    That’s possible too, LINS.

  426. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370311"][quote comment="370309"]PJSander,

    Thanks. I thought she said “husband” in there somewhere but obviously that is not the case. So it does appear that they aren’t married. Interesting.[/quote]

    **********
    From Wikipedia:
    Korean women do not change their names upon marriage. By name alone, a woman cannot be identified as someone’s wife. Neither are they addressed in a fashion similar to ‘Mrs. (Husband’s family name)’. They are simply addressed by their family name; however, it is more specifically ‘wife of (husband’s family name)’ or ‘(child’s name)’s mom’, when the relation has to be known. Women emigrating to cultures where it is customary to take on their husband’s names may choose not to change, especially if they are professionals. However, they may let themselves be addressed as ‘Mrs. (husband’s family name)’ in addition to, for example, ‘Dr. (her maiden name)’.

    This may be the reason that she was referred to as Ms. Paik, her birth name was probably the name on her passport, doesn’t mean they weren’t married.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Good point, except on LOST she took the name Kwon. Locke made mention that he knew Hurley and Sawyers real name from the manifest, but never mentioned that Sun is using the wrong name…just saying.

  427. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370312"]Just a reminder…regardless of what is going on with the alternate time line, the surviving Losties are on the island to help fight in the up coming ‘war’ over the island.

    MIB is waging war and now that Jacob is dead, I think he can only advise his ‘side’.[/quote]

    Yes, and I think the upcoming war will sink the island.

  428. Hammer says:

    Or…the island sinks itself to rid itself of the mortals and start over again (see MIB and Jacob convo from S5 finale)Maybe it goes down when it needs to purge itself of the destruction that MIB talked about…it always ends the same MIB said…it sinks to kill the mortals…then Jacob sends for more to try(?) again.

  429. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="370282"][quote comment="370273"]So you are thinking that in between 2004 and 2007, things transpire so that the ‘new’ crop of Losties find themselves where we see them in the beginning of the episode?[/quote]

    Yes.

    [quote comment="370273"]Meaning that they all land in LAX and go about their business, which leads to their Swan experience three years later?[/quote]

    Yes.

    [quote comment="370273"]But why would they still be wearing Dharma suits? and why would Kate be talking about Desmond and the failsafe key?[/quote]

    Their *new* path must lead them to these things. This same friend has also suggested that it was JULIET who turned the fail safe key in 2007 – explaining the hatch detritus, as well as their hearing issues.

    [quote comment="370273"]I just don’t see how it can pan out in 16 episodes and how it can fit into the story (and make sense!).[/quote]

    Well they really don’t have to show us EVERYTHING. They can show us key plot points which sync them up with where they are now.

    Toeknee, I welcome your efforts to pull this theory apart, but to me, it holds some serious water.

    : ) P[/quote]

    If you’re right and the alternative Losties do course correct and end up on the island, maybe the consiousnesses from the original Losties who set off the bomb in the 70s flash forward to 2007 like Desmond was able to do. That would explain why their aren’t any differences in the characters in 2007.

  430. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="370316"]Or…the island sinks itself to rid itself of the mortals and start over again (see MIB and Jacob convo from S5 finale)Maybe it goes down when it needs to purge itself of the destruction that MIB talked about…it always ends the same MIB said…it sinks to kill the mortals…then Jacob sends for more to try(?) again.[/quote]

    I like that theory for the past cycles where it has been a stalemate. But they both want to win. MIB is trying to do something different to go home – needs to be rid of Jacob and everyone else to do so. Also Jacob is trying to do something different maybe find people that can live in peace on the island to avoid the sinking.

  431. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370318"][quote comment="370316"]Or…the island sinks itself to rid itself of the mortals and start over again (see MIB and Jacob convo from S5 finale)Maybe it goes down when it needs to purge itself of the destruction that MIB talked about…it always ends the same MIB said…it sinks to kill the mortals…then Jacob sends for more to try(?) again.[/quote]

    I like that theory for the past cycles where it has been a stalemate. But they both want to win. MIB is trying to do something different to go home – needs to be rid of Jacob and everyone else to do so. Also Jacob is trying to do something different maybe find people that can live in peace on the island to avoid the sinking.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Right, but it seems to me that the sinking happens between ’77 and ’04. The sunken island was shown to us as the flight in ’04 flew over. Eventually it rises again between ’04 and ’07 when the surviving Losties make it back to the island and see the warning signal and the war is on…again. A friend on another blog mentioned that when Sun and Lapidus were in the barracks, the barracks looked as though the had been under water and dried out.

  432. LostieLou says:

    Did anyone else catch a glimpse of Ilana standing in a security line at LAX?

    My current theory: Simultaneously, the bomb worked AND the island moved. Bomb worked=alternate time line (ie. sunken island, subtle differences in 815 passengers, excluding Charlie and Jack). Island moved (white light)=Jack, Kate, et al in 2007 island time. Coincidence? Hmmm…it’s the only way I can make the two timelines work in my head.

    I’m going with the idea that Jacob is using Sayid’s body as vessel.

    But, for your consideration, Was Jacob visiting Hurley? Or was Esau shapeforming into Jacob ( familiar to Hurley) to visit Hurley so that Esau could “come home” to the Temple via Sayid.

    I’m with the folk who support that Jacob and Esau aren’t battling between good and evil but destiny vs. free-will. It’s THE ARGUMENT that will last until… well, OUR Island sinks.

  433. FFam5 says:

    [quote comment="370303"]What was the book that Des was reading on the plane?

    Looks like Salman Rushdie’s name at the top of the front cover but couldn’t make out the title of the book.

    Did a quick search and found were Rushdie wrote a novel titled “Grimus”. Apparently its a story about people that can’t die and they live on a hidden island controlled by a strange “Effect” – Sounds interesting

  434. Geoo says:

    Umas das melhores séries está no fim,lost é tão bom, vou sentir saudades.

  435. DocH says:

    [quote comment="370322"]Umas das melhores séries está no fim, lost é tão bom, vou sentir saudades.[/quote]
    Hey… you stole my theory. 8^)

  436. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="370322"]Umas das melhores séries está no fim,lost é tão bom, vou sentir saudades.[/quote]

    OK, English, please!

  437. DocH says:

    -Good News-
    Christian got sucked-off the plane by the island.

    -Bad News-
    So did Vincent.

  438. Mal says:

    While I think it’s fun and interesting to theorieze that Jacob and MIB are playing some cosmic a “game”, I really don’t find it plausible.

    Remember, MIB’s motive is to “go home”, so unless they are playing baesball or Sorry, I doubt that we’re witnessing a game sequence.

    Think about everyone involved that are seemingly more enlightened than some… Widmore, Eloise, Richard, Temple Guy, Jacob’s bodyguards… you think they’re motivated by a game?

    Fun theory, but I think that the backgammon reference was an hommage to the struggle between good v bad, the two fundamental sides that would come to battle each other during the series (not to mention a more broad statement about humanity).

  439. Mal says:

    I just wnat to know by “it only ends once” – you could imagine that the “one ending” is the sinking of the island and the characters being freed of their ties to the island… (thus landing the plane and continuing on with their lives)… but it’s clear that the sinking of the island only exists in one time line/reality/universe. So how does it ultimately “end”, if there are still realities where the island has not yet sunk?

    I guess that’s where there WHH – Course correction comes into play – perhaps the 2007 island will also end with a bang under the sea!

  440. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    421: it may be rose & bernard in the caves, but they did not pick up the stones. jack did. he put them back in the pouch, and we don’t know what he did with them.

    432: desmond was reading “Haroun and the Sea of Stories”. It is a phantasmagorical story set in a city so old and ruinous that it has forgotten its name”. It is an allegorical story about a 10 year old boy in an imaginary world called “Kahani” and his father is the story teller. After but after his mother leaves his father, the father is unable to tell stories anymore. There is a water genie who controls the Ocean of the Stream of Stories. [LOSTpedia]

  441. ninny says:

    do you think we will get the back stories of everyone all over again? I am not sure how that will go over – watched the americas most wanted video about Kate. Were there any other extra things released besides the Mr. Kluck commercials and the kate thing?

  442. little prince says:

    You cant support both the WHH theory and this new one of the alternate timeline with no island influence. If the island doesnt intervien with thier lives then yes alot of them would be close to the same..but John Locke would be dead..his destiny would be him being chucked out the window of a skyscrapper…No Jacob/Island…no Locke on the new plane..cause that what happened…Jacob coming over and bringing someone back from the dead with some wierd superhuman touch changes everything

    Rose and bernard were separated for 2 minutes on the plane but he came back and they missed each other and acted like it was longer…I felt like this was thrown in our face by the writers…i dont know what it means but after watching a few times it looks like more than just the writers showing us how cute they are…also the first thing Bernard says is “I almost died in there”

    Rose tells Jack “its ok you can let go now”
    Jack says…”looks like we made it”
    Rose responds..”yup..we sure did”

    after the turbulance…Jack has a fresh cut..and Desmond shows up…i think too much is put right in front of us for us to think that nothing happened right there…now i have no clue…but i feel like that was a very important 5 minutes

    i feel like Desmond remembers …his manerisms and the way he looks at Jack is like..(does he know..)

  443. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    ninny…at comic con, d & c said that there will be no more flashforwards or flashbacks. so i doubt we will get “new” backstory, but that’s not to say that we won’t see the effect of some changes unfold with the sideways timeline.

    years ago, i always wondered if the flashbacks were happening at the same time as the island stuff. i mainly got that from the dialogue that they would use; it seemed like you could swap lines from both times and it worked out. well…mainly how the last line of a flashback always worked with the transition. does that make sense?

  444. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    for example…we see the kate flashback and then she sees the horse. i know they were telling us the backstory so that the horse would make sense to us, but i still think it’s a neat possibility to wonder if it was happening at the same time in alternate time lines.
    not sure if i still feel this way or if my brain can handle it.

  445. ninny says:

    [quote comment="370331"]

    years ago, i always wondered if the flashbacks were happening at the same time as the island stuff. i mainly got that from the dialogue that they would use; it seemed like you could swap lines from both times and it worked out. well…mainly how the last line of a flashback always worked with the transition. does that make sense?[/quote]

    I noticed the transition but it never occurred to me that they were happening at the same time – that would really mess up my brain!

    Someone had said above that they (d&c) purposefully didn’t make the plane scene exactly the same so we would notice the differrences this time around with their mannerisms and missing people. I guess we will just have to pay MORE attention to the characters and dialogue. I don’t think in the beginning they (d&c) thought we (the fans) would have ever paid as close attention as we have :-)

  446. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="370032"]Ok last thought. The bomb did not go off. The incident happened. The hatch got built for a reason as we see it imploded. Why build a hatch if the bomb went off?[/quote]

    Remember, the Hydrogen (fusion) bomb did not go off, only the fission bomb that was to serve as the detonator of the Hydrogen bomb. Remember they just took the small fission device off the big fusion bomb.

  447. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370319"][quote comment="370318"][quote comment="370316"]Or…the island sinks itself to rid itself of the mortals and start over again (see MIB and Jacob convo from S5 finale)Maybe it goes down when it needs to purge itself of the destruction that MIB talked about…it always ends the same MIB said…it sinks to kill the mortals…then Jacob sends for more to try(?) again.[/quote]

    I like that theory for the past cycles where it has been a stalemate. But they both want to win. MIB is trying to do something different to go home – needs to be rid of Jacob and everyone else to do so. Also Jacob is trying to do something different maybe find people that can live in peace on the island to avoid the sinking.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Right, but it seems to me that the sinking happens between ’77 and ’04. The sunken island was shown to us as the flight in ’04 flew over. Eventually it rises again between ’04 and ’07 when the surviving Losties make it back to the island and see the warning signal and the war is on…again. A friend on another blog mentioned that when Sun and Lapidus were in the barracks, the barracks looked as though the had been under water and dried out.[/quote]

    ***
    now I want to go rewatch that episode to see if the barracks look like that…
    the islands own way to purge!

  448. Miss lost says:

    Found an interesting quote: “It’s not what’s happening to you now or what has happened in your past that determines who you become. Rather, it’s your decisions about what to focus on, what things mean to you, and what you’re going to do about them that will determine your ultimate destiny.” Anthony Robbins

  449. Nathan says:

    Its interesting that the asian guy said that he didn’t like the “taste” of English in his mouth. He must have Lexical-gustatory synesthesia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical-gustatory_synesthesia

  450. Aggie Mo says:

    Since the poster resembles the Last Supper, here are the corresponding characters in the place of each disciple:

    From left to right:

    Iliana = Bartholomew
    Richard = James (younger)
    Claire = Andrew
    Peter = Sayid
    Judas = Kate
    John/Mary = Sawyer
    Locke = Jesus
    Jack = Thomas
    Ben = Philip
    Hurley = Matthew
    Sun = Thaddeus
    Simon = Lapidus.

    This leaves out the guy sitting at the table second from the right — who is that?

    Some of these analogies make sense. Locke as Jesus, Jack as doubting Thomas, Sayid as Peter (the aggressive impulsive one).

    Sawyer as John is an interesting one to me — makes sense since he’s such a major player on the show.

    Kate as Judas is very interesting — maybe foreshadowing something to happen later this season?

  451. Aggie Mo says:

    Since the poster resembles the Last Supper, here are the corresponding characters in the place of each disciple:

    From left to right:

    Iliana = Bartholomew
    Richard = James (younger)
    Claire = Andrew
    Peter = Sayid
    Judas = Kate
    John/Mary = Sawyer
    Locke = Jesus
    Jack = Thomas
    Jin = James (older, Jesus’ brother)
    Ben = Philip
    Hurley = Matthew
    Sun = Thaddeus
    Simon = Lapidus.

    This leaves out the guy sitting at the table second from the right — who is that?

    Some of these analogies make sense. Locke as Jesus, Jack as doubting Thomas, Sayid as Peter (the aggressive impulsive one).

    Sawyer as John is an interesting one to me — makes sense since he’s such a major player on the show.

    Kate as Judas is very interesting — maybe foreshadowing something to happen later this season?

    NOTE: edited to add Jin/James in there.

  452. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="370331"]ninny…at comic con, d & c said that there will be no more flashforwards or flashbacks. so i doubt we will get “new” backstory, but that’s not to say that we won’t see the effect of some changes unfold with the sideways timeline.

    years ago, i always wondered if the flashbacks were happening at the same time as the island stuff. i mainly got that from the dialogue that they would use; it seemed like you could swap lines from both times and it worked out. well…mainly how the last line of a flashback always worked with the transition. does that make sense?[/quote]

    I’ve always been on that train of thought and I think it would make just as much sense now, with the alt reality. Din’t D&C say there are no flashbacks now, just one linear timeline, so doesn’t that mean that 2004 and 2007 cant be seperate?

    Based on Desmonds flashes in the Constant, I decided back then that even the time travel (realitys?) sequence up with each other— Desmond isn’t flashing to just any random moment, he is flashing to another coinciding line—like another pole, same for Charlotte when she was dying, or even Juliet when she was dying…

    Like each time we see a flashback, flashfoward, or side flash we are witnessing two polar ends (example 1977 was happening in sync with 2007) I still guess that (example) 1977 Jack could have somehow communicated with 2007 Locke, through whispers or dream or whatever, as long as they were on the same sync— just like Desmond was communicating through two different times.

    Perhaps the LA Xrs will now start to have “memories” of the island 2007, which will cause them to look for it… but not really memories, but rather witnessing what is happening to them “right now” on the other side…

  453. Jacob's Shepherd says:

    If Sun and Jin are not married, that means that they never met/were touched by Jacob. Sayid has not yet been touched by Jacob. Jack maybe. Sawyer and Kate, yes. Unless Kate murdered someone else and Sawyer’s parents are not dead, in this alternate universe?

    Also, Illana, if she is part of Jacob’s protection, she would have known that Locke’s dead body was in that box and then when she saw Locke on the island when flight 316 crashed, why wouldn’t she automatically be suspicious??! She spoke to him like nothing happened, why? I want to know more about her, her injury, and what she is helping Jacob do.

    Thoughts LOSTies?!?!

  454. Jacob's Shepherd says:

    Also, I think Sun and Jin will both die. She wanted to leave him and LOST faith in their love. Jin will die trying to save her, thus proving his love, and he will die and she will be alone like she originally planned or die herself.

  455. Skate says:

    [quote comment="370339"]Since the poster resembles the Last Supper, here are the corresponding characters in the place of each disciple:

    From left to right:

    Iliana = Bartholomew
    Richard = James (younger)
    Claire = Andrew
    Peter = Sayid
    Judas = Kate
    John/Mary = Sawyer
    Locke = Jesus
    Jack = Thomas
    Jin = James (older, Jesus’ brother)
    Ben = Philip
    Hurley = Matthew
    Sun = Thaddeus
    Simon = Lapidus.

    This leaves out the guy sitting at the table second from the right — who is that?

    Some of these analogies make sense. Locke as Jesus, Jack as doubting Thomas, Sayid as Peter (the aggressive impulsive one).

    Sawyer as John is an interesting one to me — makes sense since he’s such a major player on the show.

    Kate as Judas is very interesting — maybe foreshadowing something to happen later this season?

    NOTE: edited to add Jin/James in there.[/quote]

    You left out Miles (2nd from right)

  456. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="370343"][quote comment="370339"]Since the poster resembles the Last Supper, here are the corresponding characters in the place of each disciple:

    From left to right:

    Iliana = Bartholomew
    Richard = James (younger)
    Claire = Andrew
    Peter = Sayid
    Judas = Kate
    John/Mary = Sawyer
    Locke = Jesus
    Jack = Thomas
    Jin = James (older, Jesus’ brother)
    Ben = Philip
    Hurley = Matthew
    Sun = Thaddeus
    Simon = Lapidus.

    This leaves out the guy sitting at the table second from the right — who is that?

    Some of these analogies make sense. Locke as Jesus, Jack as doubting Thomas, Sayid as Peter (the aggressive impulsive one).

    Sawyer as John is an interesting one to me — makes sense since he’s such a major player on the show.

    Kate as Judas is very interesting — maybe foreshadowing something to happen later this season?

    NOTE: edited to add Jin/James in there.[/quote]

    You left out Miles (2nd from right)[/quote]

    OK — so Miles is that one. That is interesting since that leaves 14 (13+1) in the Lost poster, but only 13 (12+1) at the Last Supper painting.

  457. MarcG says:

    Somebody asked in an earlier post about the shiny object Bram picked up before the smoke monster wiped them all out. I didn’t see any responses. It seemed to be made out of gold. I paused it on TV, but couldn’t make out much detail. It almost looked to be a serpent head (cobra).

    Why would Jacob entrust such a large ankh with Hurley? Couldn’t the same list have been enclosed in some smaller vessel? Anyway, interesting that we see an Ankh again (which the statue is also holding in its hands).

    Everything about MIB feels evil and involves death: killing Jacob (assuming new Locke and MIB are one and the same), killing Ecko, killing Jacob’s pathetic excuse for bodyguards, attacking the mercenaries, killing Oceanic pilot, etc… (assuming smoke monster is MIB). Also, anyone wonder if Locke provoking Sawyer to kill his father in the brig was MIB himself? Although I think this would break the theory that MIB can only take on the form of dead people. I do believe that any apparitions have been MIB and Jacob (when he chooses to show himself) doesn’t try to mask his identity. Jacob, on the other hand, portrays goodness and life. He comforted Sawyer, helped out Jack with his bard, helped out Kate get out of trouble, healed Locke, etc…

    I wonder if Adam & Eve skeletons could be of MIB and Jacob? I don’t think we could actually tell the sex of the skeletons in the cave, unless one of the Losties noticed something…I would need to watch that ep again to be sure. So if they are male, then that would be an interesting possibility. Not sure it could be anyone else, since Others and Losties all chose to live in cabins or makeshift huts and not in caves (except for brief period when Losties were seeking protection and went inland).

    I loved the start of season 6, but I feel it raised more issues than it answered. Number of remaining shows is quickly dwindling, writers better get going soon :-)

  458. Skate says:

    [quote comment="370345"]Somebody asked in an earlier post about the shiny object Bram picked up before the smoke monster wiped them all out. I didn’t see any responses. It seemed to be made out of gold. I paused it on TV, but couldn’t make out much detail. It almost looked to be a serpent head (cobra).

    Why would Jacob entrust such a large ankh with Hurley? Couldn’t the same list have been enclosed in some smaller vessel? Anyway, interesting that we see an Ankh again (which the statue is also holding in its hands).

    Everything about MIB feels evil and involves death: killing Jacob (assuming new Locke and MIB are one and the same), killing Ecko, killing Jacob’s pathetic excuse for bodyguards, attacking the mercenaries, killing Oceanic pilot, etc… (assuming smoke monster is MIB). Also, anyone wonder if Locke provoking Sawyer to kill his father in the brig was MIB himself? Although I think this would break the theory that MIB can only take on the form of dead people. I do believe that any apparitions have been MIB and Jacob (when he chooses to show himself) doesn’t try to mask his identity. Jacob, on the other hand, portrays goodness and life. He comforted Sawyer, helped out Jack with his bard, helped out Kate get out of trouble, healed Locke, etc…

    Jacob was there when Nadia was hit and killed. You could almost say he caused it by stopping Sayid to ask directions. Once it happened he seemed to be out of there. He could have “touched” her as he did Locke and saved her also, but he did nothing, not even offer help or concern and comfort.

  459. MarcG says:

    [quote comment="370346"][quote comment="370345"]

    Jacob was there when Nadia was hit and killed. You could almost say he caused it by stopping Sayid to ask directions. Once it happened he seemed to be out of there. He could have “touched” her as he did Locke and saved her also, but he did nothing, not even offer help or concern and comfort.[/quote]

    True enough, maybe the distinction would be directly causing death and pain. Nadia’s accident wasn’t directly caused by Jacob. And maybe he can’t just save everybody. In this case he chose to save Sayid by calling him back for directions.

  460. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    if ben was telling the truth (ha!), then he showed the guy that was driving the car that killed nadia; i always assumed he was hired. sayid needed to be kept alive in order to avenge nadia’s death/work for ben and ultimately get back to the island.

  461. Geo says:

    My feeling is that the alternate universe that we are seeing will serve only to highlight the importance of the events as they have unfolded in the “true” universe. I can’t see a way for them to come back together that would be interesting or useful. I picture time as a set of train tracks, you can go forward or backward, but you must stay on the same path. The bomb and the Incident represent a switching point on the track where the train can go either way. When the bomb blew, it turned the switch but also sent the Losties into the future I believe along the original path. What ever then happens along the other path, seems unrelated to the “true” course and I feel that we are seeing it only to confirm the rightness of the path that the Losties are on.

  462. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370345"]Somebody asked in an earlier post about the shiny object Bram picked up before the smoke monster wiped them all out. I didn’t see any responses. It seemed to be made out of gold. I paused it on TV, but couldn’t make out much detail. It almost looked to be a serpent head (cobra).

    Why would Jacob entrust such a large ankh with Hurley? Couldn’t the same list have been enclosed in some smaller vessel? Anyway, interesting that we see an Ankh again (which the statue is also holding in its hands).

    Everything about MIB feels evil and involves death: killing Jacob (assuming new Locke and MIB are one and the same), killing Ecko, killing Jacob’s pathetic excuse for bodyguards, attacking the mercenaries, killing Oceanic pilot, etc… (assuming smoke monster is MIB). Also, anyone wonder if Locke provoking Sawyer to kill his father in the brig was MIB himself? Although I think this would break the theory that MIB can only take on the form of dead people. I do believe that any apparitions have been MIB and Jacob (when he chooses to show himself) doesn’t try to mask his identity. Jacob, on the other hand, portrays goodness and life. He comforted Sawyer, helped out Jack with his bard, helped out Kate get out of trouble, healed Locke, etc…

    I wonder if Adam & Eve skeletons could be of MIB and Jacob? I don’t think we could actually tell the sex of the skeletons in the cave, unless one of the Losties noticed something…I would need to watch that ep again to be sure. So if they are male, then that would be an interesting possibility. Not sure it could be anyone else, since Others and Losties all chose to live in cabins or makeshift huts and not in caves (except for brief period when Losties were seeking protection and went inland).

    I loved the start of season 6, but I feel it raised more issues than it answered. Number of remaining shows is quickly dwindling, writers better get going soon :-)[/quote]

    *******
    I think we will find the writing stays the same and even when it ends we will still be debating many of the mysteries we have come to love (all our questions are not going to be answered).
    In Season 1 Jack says that the other skeleton is a female…so I think they are a man and a woman.

  463. Miss lost says:

    I thought the shiny object was the bullet and it was bent?

  464. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370350"][quote comment="370345"]

    ————

    [/quote]

    *******
    I think we will find the writing stays the same and even when it ends we will still be debating many of the mysteries we have come to love (all our questions are not going to be answered).
    In Season 1 Jack says that the other skeleton is a female…so I think they are a man and a woman.[/quote]

    Forgot about the skeletons… a lot of people have speculated that they belonged to Rose and Bernard, which makes sense with the timeline (Rose and Bernard would have been in 1977 with the other Losties, died that 30 years earlier in the cave… and then appear in 2004 as decayed skeletons).

    Now that we know the Losties flashed back to 2007 though… and we have to assume that they are all flashing together (as they did last season), that might put a wrench in the Rose/Bernard theory! Unless they happened to die in those hours before the bomb exploded, or made a suicide pact!

  465. Mal says:

    Re: MarkG:

    I agree that the Smoke Monster is directly connected to MIB, and that Jacob does not also take the form of the Smoke Monster. This does not necessarily mean that the Smoke Monster IS the MIB, but somehow controlled by MIB…

    That makes sense when you remember that the Dharma and Others have to bury or burn the dead… that’s likely so that MIB doesn’t have the ability to appear as them – you can imagine the trouble it would cause if MIB could resemble any dead person on the island!

    Definitely agree that he also took the form of Locke’s dad… apparently that means that he has a connection to the outside world as well. As Locke’s dad said, he had just been in a car accident, was freshly dead and therefore unburied.

  466. Charlie says:

    The lyrics from the Rolling Stones’ “Sympathy for the Devil” provides a clue to the Man in Black’s identity. Check out this presentation I found…it’s very cool: http://my.brainshark.com/Lost-Theories-Season-6-963163221

  467. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370340"]Din’t D&C say there are no flashbacks now, just one linear timeline, so doesn’t that mean that 2004 and 2007 cant be seperate?[/quote]

    Eh. D&C also said there was no time travel.

    : ) P

  468. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370345"]Somebody asked in an earlier post about the shiny object Bram picked up before the smoke monster wiped them all out. I didn’t see any responses. It seemed to be made out of gold. I paused it on TV, but couldn’t make out much detail. It almost looked to be a serpent head (cobra).

    Why would Jacob entrust such a large ankh with Hurley? Couldn’t the same list have been enclosed in some smaller vessel? Anyway, interesting that we see an Ankh again (which the statue is also holding in its hands).[/quote]

    It looked like a beetle to me. My mind went to scarab, which has roots in Egyptian mythology.

    The ankh was large because storing it in a guitar case further the mystery. I suspect that is the ONLY reason why!

    : ) P

  469. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370345"]I wonder if Adam & Eve skeletons could be of MIB and Jacob? I don’t think we could actually tell the sex of the skeletons in the cave, unless one of the Losties noticed something…I would need to watch that ep again to be sure. So if they are male, then that would be an interesting possibility. Not sure it could be anyone else, since Others and Losties all chose to live in cabins or makeshift huts and not in caves (except for brief period when Losties were seeking protection and went inland).[/quote]

    Good thought. I have memory of Jack saying that one skeleton was a woman. But I like your idea.

    : ) P

  470. Skeet says:

    Doesn’t anybody remember Walt telling Locke he (Locke) was on a beach in a suit and people were trying to hurt him? He said that when Locke left the island to bring back those who had left.

    Since Locke is “currently” dead, doesn’t that imply he’ll wake up? Given the Last Supper promo picture, it appears he will resurrect.

    Any thoughts?

  471. GeriBNJ says:

    [quote comment="370354"]The lyrics from the Rolling Stones’ “Sympathy for the Devil” provides a clue to the Man in Black’s identity. Check out this presentation I found…it’s very cool: http://my.brainshark.com/Lost-Theories-Season-6-963163221%5B/quote%5D
    not so sure who is the devil and who is God….. Flock tells Iliana’s men that Jacob burned in the fire and they are free…free to go with a smile on his face. They shoot him so he retaliates as the smoke monster

  472. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370358"]Doesn’t anybody remember Walt telling Locke he (Locke) was on a beach in a suit and people were trying to hurt him? He said that when Locke left the island to bring back those who had left.

    Since Locke is “currently” dead, doesn’t that imply he’ll wake up? Given the Last Supper promo picture, it appears he will resurrect.

    Any thoughts?[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    My thoughts about Walt telling Locke his dream is that was merely added drama/dressing by the writers. Nothing significant at all about it. Similar to our whole wondering who “The Economist” was, probably what the little claw/bent bullet was that Bram picked up before Smokey got loose, why women couldn’t have children (boy doesn’t that seem like a distant concern at this point) why the Others were taking children and a host of other strange items/occurrences with the show.

    At this point, with a whole alternative timeline to deal with, and the issues with the war between Jacob and MIB/FLocke/Smokey I’m seriously doubting we’ll get a backstory on Widmore, and personally, I was really looking forward to that. Not even sure we’ll hear anything about Ms. Hawkings either.

    Seems like Richard should have known immediately that something was up when he sees Locke’s dead body. He appears to have some familiarity with Smokey/Flocke because he immediately orders them not to shoot when he comes out the foot. That stated, he therefore in my mind should know, “it’s on” when they turn over Locke’s body and they should be planning some kind of…something with this FLocke guy.

    What is the thing that sets off the Chinese new year rocket, or the alarm horns? (Just a random question).

  473. LostieLou says:

    [quote comment="370330"]You cant support both the WHH theory and this new one of the alternate timeline with no island influence.

    Little Prince, I think WHH is still in play off the island.

    The premiere gave us the following parallels or WHH:

    1. Jack was destined to lose his father’s body; and

    2. Jack was destined to tell someone to look for a pen while he was resusitating someone.

    I think the island enabled the Losties to make good choices. Off the island, they make bad choices. Regardless, whatever happened happened. Their destinies remain the same.

    Example: Charlie is destined to die a young man. On the island, he died a hero–doing something for others. Off the island, he’ll die for selfish reasons.

    Another example: Kate is destined to be free. On the island, kate used her freedom to become a leader, to protect people.

    Off the island: She is destined to be free and deliver Claire’s baby but won’t wisely use her freedom.

    Same thing for Sawyer: Since there’s no island for Juliet to visit, he’s destined to meet and have feelings for her (ie. coffee bit) but will CON her. A replay of his affair with Cassidy.

    Now, Jack and John: I think Jack will fix John. I think walking again is John’s destiny. But, I don’t think John will find peace in his new legs. I think he dies out of vengeance trying to kill his father. Sawyer will find his man and John will get caught in crossfire.

    As far as 2007 at the Temple, has anyone given the Hippie and Mr. Miyagi names?

  474. LostieLou says:

    Sorry Folks: I hit the wrong button! WHH!

    Little Prince, I think WHH is still in play off the island.

    The premiere gave us the following parallels or WHH:

    1. Jack was destined to lose his father’s body; and

    2. Jack was destined to tell someone to look for a pen while he was resusitating someone.

    I think the island enabled the Losties to make good choices. Off the island, they make bad choices. Regardless, whatever happened happened. Their destinies remain the same.

    Example:

    Charlie is destined to die a young man. On the island, he died a hero–doing something for others. Off the island, he’ll die for selfish reasons.

    Another example: Kate is destined to be free. On the island, kate used her freedom to become a leader, to protect people.

    Off the island: She is destined to be free and deliver Claire’s baby but won’t wisely use her freedom.

    Same thing for Sawyer: Since there’s no island for Juliet to visit, he’s destined to meet and have feelings for her (ie. coffee bit) but will CON her. A replay of his affair with Cassidy.

    Now, Jack and John: I think Jack will fix John. I think walking again is John’s destiny. But, I don’t think John will find peace in his new legs. I think he dies out of vengeance trying to kill his father. Sawyer will find his man and John will get caught in crossfire.

    As far as 2007 at the Temple, has anyone given the Hippie and Mr. Miyagi names?

  475. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370300"]Okay, so I have watched the first hour of JUST the post explosion side of things. There are a few things that are said which relate directly to the past as we know it. However, any of those things COULD be explained away with a variation of the past.

    For example, Kate says they are at the hatch after Desmond blew it up.

    At first glance that sounds like the past as we know it, but in the “new” reality, Desmond could blown up the hatch.

    Another example, Hurley, at Jacob’s urging, asks Jin if he knew about the hole in the wall where he was with the French team.

    Again, if 1977 were different, then maybe Rousseau’s team arrives and spends years on the island blissfully happy and later encounter Jin. We saw Montand’s armless body, but we didn’t see his arm!

    So far, the theory still looks brilliant to me!

    : P[/quote]

    OK here’s something that occurs early in “LA X” that I think pokes a hole in the theory (originally stated in comment #375)….

    After Kate tells Miles the crater is from when Desmond blew up the swan hatch, Miles says, “I guess we’re not in 1977 anymore” or something like that. If the theory from #375 is true, why would Miles say that?

  476. KnowItAll says:

    They’re in 2007. Jacob tells Hugo he died an hour ago. Jacob died in 2007.

    Sayid is alive, he is not Jacob. Most disagree with me. They are wrong.

    Prediction: Sayid has a loophole attached to his resurrection, he will be the one capable of destroying the man in black.

  477. KnowItAll says:

    Richard was likely a slave chained up on the black rock, where he first met man in black, who clearly didnt want the ship coming to the island despite jacob bringing it. hence the ship in the center of the island, it went through quite a fight. Man In Black (MIB) is quite likely aversion of the devil (“unlike the real john locke, i want to go home”….as in heaven where he was banished from?)

    Illana i think is jacobs daughter. she’ll be important, and walt and aaron will likely play key roles as well.

    and skeet…you mentioned many things the writers inlcuded that were insignificant and for drama. kids being taken, woman not being able to have children, ect. i disagree i think these are still important…my theory is woman stopped being able to conceive when the statue fell, and anyone taken as we know were needed by jacob.

  478. KnowItAll says:

    THE NUMBERS: 4 8 15 16 23 42

    was brainstorming the other night and it hit me. what is the significance of the number 108? it seems to randomly chosen. yes its a multiplier of 9, a number that signifies completion. what else? then it hit me:
    4+8+15+16+23+42 = 108. also the hourglass drained for exactly 1 minute 8 seconds, which isnt 108 seconds but still interesting. numbers are ket here: 9? 9 people were touched by jacob: jack kate sawyer hugo jin sun sayid locke and finally 9th, ben.

  479. KnowItAll says:

    The piece of metal bram picked up was a slightly flattened bullet they had just shot at smokey. saw a few people ask about that.

  480. RGS says:

    OK here’s something that occurs early in “LA X” that I think pokes a hole in the theory (originally stated in comment #375)….

    After Kate tells Miles the crater is from when Desmond blew up the swan hatch, Miles says, “I guess we’re not in 1977 anymore” or something like that. If the theory from #375 is true, why would Miles say that?[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    To me the other thing that pokes a hole in that theory is the whole island being underwater aspect, as the plane passes in 2004.

    I think you’d also have to accept that there will be an Oceanic 6 of some sort in order for the events to lead up to Kate being in a tree in this episode, because Sun is already there in 2007, and she is also on the plane in 2004. Somehow that would have to be reconciled.

  481. Skeet says:

    [quote comment="370365"]
    and skeet…you mentioned many things the writers inlcuded that were insignificant and for drama. kids being taken, woman not being able to have children, ect. i disagree i think these are still important…my theory is woman stopped being able to conceive when the statue fell, and anyone taken as we know were needed by jacob.[/quote]
    Actually, I didn’t say that. RGS was replying to what I had written about Walt’s statement to Locke after the latter had come back to bring back those who had left the island.

    I agree that Walt’s comment that he saw Locke on a beach wearing a suit and others trying to hurt him is significant. That comment wasn’t made at the beginning of the series; it was made in Season 5 and I doubt it was merely for dramatic effect. If Locke is going to stay dead, I doubt Walt would say somebody was trying to hurt him. But who knows? We’ll have to wait and see.

  482. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370367"]The piece of metal bram picked up was a slightly flattened bullet they had just shot at smokey. saw a few people ask about that.[/quote]

    *****
    That is what I thought it was too and mentioned so in an earlier post. It was bent and did no damage to Flocke. That is obviously not the way they are going to be able to kill him…

  483. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="370051"]The debris at the hatch was from the hatch – they showed the red stationary bike in the rubble (Sawyer threw it). May not have matched the hole they showed in previous seasons, but everything points to it being hatch debris and not construction debris.[/quote]

    I watched it again (and again) and agree with you. Idk why I thought it looked like drill rig debris the 1st time I seen it.

  484. Hammer says:

    Dr. Halliwax/Candle in a Bud Light commercial in a lab coat saving the world….to funny.

  485. Duke says:

    If these are in fact “flash-sideways” episodes then what we are watching both on the island and the new plane footage would be from 2004. Therefore, would there not be another set of the Losties somewhere on the island going about their business that we watched for the first 5 seasons? We once saw Sawyer see Claire giving birth and Locke recognized the light from the hatch. If they went to their beach wouldn’t they find themselves living there? Am I missing something?

    Bottom line being that we are essentially watching then in 2004 not 2007 if we are to believe the episodes are flash sideways of two alternate universes.

  486. Shadow says:

    do we know for sure that the losties on the plane on the LA X episode are in 2004?

  487. Whoever says:

    [quote comment="370369"][quote comment="370365"]
    and skeet…you mentioned many things the writers inlcuded that were insignificant and for drama. kids being taken, woman not being able to have children, ect. i disagree i think these are still important…my theory is woman stopped being able to conceive when the statue fell, and anyone taken as we know were needed by jacob.[/quote]
    Actually, I didn’t say that. RGS was replying to what I had written about Walt’s statement to Locke after the latter had come back to bring back those who had left the island.

    I agree that Walt’s comment that he saw Locke on a beach wearing a suit and others trying to hurt him is significant. That comment wasn’t made at the beginning of the series; it was made in Season 5 and I doubt it was merely for dramatic effect. If Locke is going to stay dead, I doubt Walt would say somebody was trying to hurt him. But who knows? We’ll have to wait and see.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Walt thought he saw Locke on the beach but he really saw MIB in a Flock suit.

  488. Whoever says:

    [quote comment="370374"]do we know for sure that the losties on the plane on the LA X episode are in 2004?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    I’ve been wondering that myself.

  489. ComedyMum says:

    So if Claire shows her big wig on the island again, and goes to capture more seabirds..should she beware of the “FLocke of Seagulls”?

    [quote] Duke said… If they went to their beach wouldn’t they find themselves living there? Am I missing something? [/quote]

    Yes to missing something. I believe they would need to use SCUBA gear to get to their beach..now that it is at the bottom of the ocean.

  490. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370373"]If these are in fact “flash-sideways” episodes then what we are watching both on the island and the new plane footage would be from 2004. Therefore, would there not be another set of the Losties somewhere on the island going about their business that we watched for the first 5 seasons? We once saw Sawyer see Claire giving birth and Locke recognized the light from the hatch. If they went to their beach wouldn’t they find themselves living there? Am I missing something?

    Bottom line being that we are essentially watching then in 2004 not 2007 if we are to believe the episodes are flash sideways of two alternate universes.[/quote]
    I think the “flash sideways” term is just intended to describe the fact that they’re telling stories in two different timelines. Just because they jump from one timeline to another doesn’t mean the events are occurring on the same date or in the same year even. I think it’s pretty clear from what we’ve been shown that the on-island events are from 2007, and I think it’s a safe assumption that the events in the plane and in LAX take place in 2004.

  491. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370381"][quote comment="370373"]If these are in fact “flash-sideways” episodes then what we are watching both on the island and the new plane footage would be from 2004. Therefore, would there not be another set of the Losties somewhere on the island going about their business that we watched for the first 5 seasons? We once saw Sawyer see Claire giving birth and Locke recognized the light from the hatch. If they went to their beach wouldn’t they find themselves living there? Am I missing something?

    Bottom line being that we are essentially watching then in 2004 not 2007 if we are to believe the episodes are flash sideways of two alternate universes.[/quote]
    I think the “flash sideways” term is just intended to describe the fact that they’re telling stories in two different timelines. Just because they jump from one timeline to another doesn’t mean the events are occurring on the same date or in the same year even. I think it’s pretty clear from what we’ve been shown that the on-island events are from 2007, and I think it’s a safe assumption that the events in the plane and in LAX take place in 2004.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I think it’s more than safe to assume the plane is 2004 because Jack is trying to get back for a funeral, presumably not a funeral 3 years later. Although anything goes at this point.

    In addition to what you’ve stated, I think they use the term “flash sideways” because they for whatever reason want to avoid using the term, “alternate timeline.” They want to avoid using that term because they sat up there and told folks that alternate timeline does not apply to the show.

  492. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370375"][quote comment="370369"][quote comment="370365"]
    and skeet…you mentioned many things the writers inlcuded that were insignificant and for drama. kids being taken, woman not being able to have children, ect. i disagree i think these are still important…my theory is woman stopped being able to conceive when the statue fell, and anyone taken as we know were needed by jacob.[/quote]
    Actually, I didn’t say that. RGS was replying to what I had written about Walt’s statement to Locke after the latter had come back to bring back those who had left the island.

    I agree that Walt’s comment that he saw Locke on a beach wearing a suit and others trying to hurt him is significant. That comment wasn’t made at the beginning of the series; it was made in Season 5 and I doubt it was merely for dramatic effect. If Locke is going to stay dead, I doubt Walt would say somebody was trying to hurt him. But who knows? We’ll have to wait and see.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Walt thought he saw Locke on the beach but he really saw MIB in a Flock suit.[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^
    So is he really seeing Locke then? Or is that a minor detail. Do we expect FLocke to don a suit? Or are we thinking that Locke will be resurrected, and therefore showing that Dead is Not dead as they seemingly want us to believe, similar to having us believe whatever happened happened…well not exactly. Or is Locke being in a suit a minor detail, so Walt doesn’t have to get the prediction exactly right, just be in the ballpark. Or as ComedyMum has suggested, maybe the suit is actually a scuba suit.

  493. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370374"]do we know for sure that the losties on the plane on the LA X episode are in 2004?[/quote]
    That was the date of the original pilot.

  494. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370377"]So if Claire shows her big wig on the island again, and goes to capture more seabirds..should she beware of the “FLocke of Seagulls”?

    [quote] Duke said… If they went to their beach wouldn’t they find themselves living there? Am I missing something? [/quote]

    Yes to missing something. I believe they would need to use SCUBA gear to get to their beach..now that it is at the bottom of the ocean.[/quote]
    I was referring to the castaways on the beach in the “flash sideways” the island is obviously not underwater at that time since we saw everyone get to the temple. Pay closer attention.

  495. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370381"][quote comment="370373"]If these are in fact “flash-sideways” episodes then what we are watching both on the island and the new plane footage would be from 2004. Therefore, would there not be another set of the Losties somewhere on the island going about their business that we watched for the first 5 seasons? We once saw Sawyer see Claire giving birth and Locke recognized the light from the hatch. If they went to their beach wouldn’t they find themselves living there? Am I missing something?

    Bottom line being that we are essentially watching then in 2004 not 2007 if we are to believe the episodes are flash sideways of two alternate universes.[/quote]
    I think the “flash sideways” term is just intended to describe the fact that they’re telling stories in two different timelines. Just because they jump from one timeline to another doesn’t mean the events are occurring on the same date or in the same year even. I think it’s pretty clear from what we’ve been shown that the on-island events are from 2007, and I think it’s a safe assumption that the events in the plane and in LAX take place in 2004.[/quote]
    That was my point. We are watching events in two different times.

  496. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370385"][quote comment="370377"]So if Claire shows her big wig on the island again, and goes to capture more seabirds..should she beware of the “FLocke of Seagulls”?

    [quote] Duke said… If they went to their beach wouldn’t they find themselves living there? Am I missing something? [/quote]

    Yes to missing something. I believe they would need to use SCUBA gear to get to their beach..now that it is at the bottom of the ocean.[/quote]
    I was referring to the castaways on the beach in the “flash sideways” the island is obviously not underwater at that time since we saw everyone get to the temple. Pay closer attention.[/quote]
    My whole point being that it isn’t a sideways flash if they are from different years, IMO. On island 2007 off island 2004.

  497. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370372"]Dr. Halliwax/Candle in a Bud Light commercial in a lab coat saving the world….to funny.[/quote]
    **************
    my husband and I were laughing…other friends are not Lost fans and didn’t get it…but we loved it!

  498. Hammer says:

    ‘Flash sideways’ is just a poor choice of naming the storytelling method. Since FB and FF are not longer being used someone picked FS.

    It appears that ‘alternate reality’ is not accurate either. More like ‘new reality’ since they managed to change the past.

  499. Miraks says:

    I think what we’ll see is a “parallel”, but alternative time line.

    Jack asks Boone for pen to save Charlie on plane vs. person on beach.

    Sun doesn’t speak up when Jin gets detained by security vs. Sun doesn’t speak up when Jin gets into fight with Michael.

    Jack operates on Locke’s back vs. Jack operates on Ben’s back.

    BUT, in the end we have to arrive at the same destination somehow.

  500. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370389"]‘Flash sideways’ is just a poor choice of naming the storytelling method. Since FB and FF are not longer being used someone picked FS.

    It appears that ‘alternate reality’ is not accurate either. More like ‘new reality’ since they managed to change the past.[/quote]

    But did they change the past if what is happening on Island 2007 is the “true” reality? It could be a continuation of WHH, in that the Oceanic 6 always go back to 1977 and drop the detonator, resulting in them flashing back to 2007. That would make the 2004 stuff an alternate reality in my mind.

    It will be interesting to see how they reconcile the two. Maybe they should have called it a flash OUTward. Forward, Backward, Outward.

  501. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370391"][quote comment="370389"]‘Flash sideways’ is just a poor choice of naming the storytelling method. Since FB and FF are not longer being used someone picked FS.

    It appears that ‘alternate reality’ is not accurate either. More like ‘new reality’ since they managed to change the past.[/quote]

    But did they change the past if what is happening on Island 2007 is the “true” reality? It could be a continuation of WHH, in that the Oceanic 6 always go back to 1977 and drop the detonator, resulting in them flashing back to 2007. That would make the 2004 stuff an alternate reality in my mind.

    It will be interesting to see how they reconcile the two. Maybe they should have called it a flash OUTward. Forward, Backward, Outward.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    I think that it is the new reality until they ‘fix’ what they ‘changed’. Faraday was correct about detonating the detonator (props DocH). So we have a new reality, but we can see that 2007 is still happening the way it would have without the detonator. So I think we will see the new reality ‘fixed’ so that we end up with surviving Losties on island in 2007 fighting to save the island/world.

    This is D&C’s way of showing us ‘what if’ Faraday was correct. Now they have to show us what was ‘supposed’ to happen.

  502. Mateo says:

    OK, some people have been asking about Walt’s dream of seeing Locke in a suit and people around him on the beach wanting to harm him. I imagine that scene already took place. What Walt saw was really FLocke in a suit (remember when plane crashed he appeared in a suit bc real Lock was dead in a suit in the container on the plane), he was on the beach, and everyone was suspicious of him since no one remembered him on the flight & the “good guys” were on the island to harm FLocke. Just my opinion that we already saw Walt’s vision, but who knows with LOST…

  503. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370393"]OK, some people have been asking about Walt’s dream of seeing Locke in a suit and people around him on the beach wanting to harm him. I imagine that scene already took place. What Walt saw was really FLocke in a suit (remember when plane crashed he appeared in a suit bc real Lock was dead in a suit in the container on the plane), he was on the beach, and everyone was suspicious of him since no one remembered him on the flight & the “good guys” were on the island to harm FLocke. Just my opinion that we already saw Walt’s vision, but who knows with LOST…[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    I tend to agree. We can even parse his words. We saw Flocke in a suit on the beach. We also so Flocke on the beach with people wanting to hurt him…just not in the suit…anymore….

  504. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370394"]
    I tend to agree. We can even parse his words. We saw Flocke in a suit on the beach. We also so Flocke on the beach with people wanting to hurt him…just not in the suit…anymore….[/quote]

    LOL.

    Flocke was on the beach surrounded with people. Locke’s dead body is on the beach surrounded with people who want to hurt Flocke. There are so many ways Walt’s dream could be true.

    : ) P

  505. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370392"]
    I think that it is the new reality until they ‘fix’ what they ‘changed’. Faraday was correct about detonating the detonator (props DocH). So we have a new reality, but we can see that 2007 is still happening the way it would have without the detonator. So I think we will see the new reality ‘fixed’ so that we end up with surviving Losties on island in 2007 fighting to save the island/world.

    This is D&C’s way of showing us ‘what if’ Faraday was correct. Now they have to show us what was ‘supposed’ to happen.[/quote]

    See to me, no matter how you slice it the detonator incident HAS happened. We just don’t know what is the “real” result of it. So to me 2007 is happening WITH the detonator incident, the same as this new 2004 is happening WITH the detonator incident.

    Are you saying D&C’s way of showing us ‘what if’ Farady was correct about which of his positions? If the 2004 Losties were to somehow end up at the 2007 point, isn’t that confirming that Whatever Happens Happens, because there is no way to avoid the 2007 confrotation that will happen at some point this season?

  506. FrankS says:

    I’m intrigued by some of the comments asking whether the plane flight to LA is in 2004 or 2007.

    Most assume it’s 2004 but we don’t really know.

    How do we know that Jack wasn’t going to fetch his dead father in 2007 in Australia after his father had moved to Oz in 2004 to be with Littleton?

    How do we know that Kate wasn’t running in Australia for over 3 years before she was caught?

    I think there’s enough room for interpretation still and until we know 100% that it’s 2004, there might be something really wacky going on.

  507. mrs markelz says:

    what i want to know is why the ninja guy and the others at the temple know about the protective ash and the presense of a “threat” to jacob and ben seems so clueless about it? isnt he supposed to be the leader? why wasnt he better prepared for his encounter with flock? they all seem to know jacob has an enemey why doesnt ben? why isnt ninja guy the leader he seems much more knowlegable about what is going on than ben? also is the place where ben went to be judged by smokey the same place as the temple?

  508. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="370384"][quote comment="370374"]do we know for sure that the losties on the plane on the LA X episode are in 2004?[/quote]
    That was the date of the original pilot.[/quote]

    I know that was the date of the original pilot. Just wondering if this plane ride now is also taking place in 2004.

  509. silentlucidity says:

    Hi all,

    500 comments this week…not bad. I have not read any BTW, but I wanted to say, I have this idea (of the many I have about LOST- this though might be my craziest one) that smokey-MIB turns out to be the ‘good’ guy in the end or the one who is really trying to rectify things somehow. Just wanted to throw that out there.

    M

  510. silentlucidity says:

    I also think that this conversation will take place sometime in the future. LOST if good for that kind of stuff.

    M

    [quote comment="370055"][quote comment="370048"][quote comment="369990"]had to watch it again-Still can’t figure out what Juliet said to Sawyer, when she thought he was someone else-something about going dutch?

    I’m with PJ-calling that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body.[/quote]
    Juliet first said, we should go for coffee, then said, we can go Dutch. For those that may not be familiar with that expression, it means that when 2 or more people do something together, each person pays for their own expenses.[/quote]

    I think that’s the conversation that will happen at the end of the series… In some alternate universe, Sawyer and Juliet will finally meet off-island. There will be some sort of spark… Sawyer will suggest they have coffee and Juliet will suggest they go dutch. And off they will ride into the sunset to live (finally) happy lives together.

    I hope. I thought it was nice that Sawyer was allowed to have a proper goodbye with Juliet.[/quote]

  511. DocH says:

    [quote comment="370392"]
    This is D&C’s way of showing us ‘what if’ Faraday was correct. Now they have to show us what was ‘supposed’ to happen.[/quote]

    What I want to know is what Faraday was doing for a few years (Ann Arbor?) before he came back to the Island in the 70’s.
    – – – –
    So Taller Ghost Walt was really MIB in a Walt suit, getting liveLocke off his butt and out of the mass grave… got it.
    – – – –
    Kate on-the-run for three years in Australia? Really? Seriously? Jack went to get his dad’s corpse… was he trying to get it out of Australia for three years? How about this… OA815 landed in Sep ’04, as scheduled. Because if it landed in 2007, three years late from a time jump – they would have had a totally different reception at LAX (like Air Traffic Control asking – what’ja been up to?).

    Oceanic Baggage Agent: Uh, sorry folks, your luggage will be along in ten years.

  512. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370396"][quote comment="370392"]
    I think that it is the new reality until they ‘fix’ what they ‘changed’. Faraday was correct about detonating the detonator (props DocH). So we have a new reality, but we can see that 2007 is still happening the way it would have without the detonator. So I think we will see the new reality ‘fixed’ so that we end up with surviving Losties on island in 2007 fighting to save the island/world.

    This is D&C’s way of showing us ‘what if’ Faraday was correct. Now they have to show us what was ‘supposed’ to happen.[/quote]

    See to me, no matter how you slice it the detonator incident HAS happened. We just don’t know what is the “real” result of it. So to me 2007 is happening WITH the detonator incident, the same as this new 2004 is happening WITH the detonator incident.

    Are you saying D&C’s way of showing us ‘what if’ Farady was correct about which of his positions? If the 2004 Losties were to somehow end up at the 2007 point, isn’t that confirming that Whatever Happens Happens, because there is no way to avoid the 2007 confrotation that will happen at some point this season?[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    I am saying that Faraday said if they detonate…that would change the past. So they are showing us the ‘butterfly effect’ of said act. And yes, WHH through course correction, they end up on island fighting the war anyway. We have to wait and see how they reconcile the ‘new’ reality with the old.

  513. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="370397"]I’m intrigued by some of the comments asking whether the plane flight to LA is in 2004 or 2007.

    Most assume it’s 2004 but we don’t really know.

    How do we know that Jack wasn’t going to fetch his dead father in 2007 in Australia after his father had moved to Oz in 2004 to be with Littleton?

    How do we know that Kate wasn’t running in Australia for over 3 years before she was caught?

    I think there’s enough room for interpretation still and until we know 100% that it’s 2004, there might be something really wacky going on.[/quote]

    Are we to assume that Mrs Hawking sank with the island in 1977? Mrs Hawking still has the journal, no? She knew what they were doing with the bomb, right? Didn’t Charles Widmore have a secret way to get on and off the island in the seventies? And doesn’t he hold a lot of water? (no pun, no pun) WHH, and I think due heavily to people with power pulling strings! –it seems like every one is under the impression that these people were somehow wiped from existance. I dont think thats the case…

  514. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370402"][quote comment="370392"]
    This is D&C’s way of showing us ‘what if’ Faraday was correct. Now they have to show us what was ‘supposed’ to happen.[/quote]

    What I want to know is what Faraday was doing for a few years (Ann Arbor?) before he came back to the Island in the 70’s.
    – – – –
    So Taller Ghost Walt was really MIB in a Walt suit, getting liveLocke off his butt and out of the mass grave… got it.
    – – – –
    Kate on-the-run for three years in Australia? Really? Seriously? Jack went to get his dad’s corpse… was he trying to get it out of Australia for three years? How about this… OA815 landed in Sep ’04, as scheduled. Because if it landed in 2007, three years late from a time jump – they would have had a totally different reception at LAX (like Air Traffic Control asking – what’ja been up to?).

    Oceanic Baggage Agent: Uh, sorry folks, your luggage will be along in ten years.[/quote]

    We don’t know why Kate is on the run in this time-line. Is it still because she killed her step-father, or some other crime?

    If Jack is a more confident person in this time-line (as he appears to be), maybe there was no big comfrontation between him and his dad, no big alcohol problems, dad did not die in 2004.

    I do think that this flight could be taking place in 2007 (or later). Maybe the “current ” losties won the war, the island sank and in the process “course corrected” to where the “new” losties are back on track (on the plane), but in a slightly altered reality.

  515. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    [quote comment="370366"]THE NUMBERS: 4 8 15 16 23 42

    was brainstorming the other night and it hit me. what is the significance of the number 108?

    it seems to randomly chosen. yes its a multiplier of 9, a number that signifies completion. what else? then it hit me:
    4+8+15+16+23+42 = 108. also the hourglass drained for exactly 1 minute 8 seconds, which isnt 108 seconds but still interesting. numbers are ket here: 9? 9 people were touched by jacob: jack kate sawyer hugo jin sun sayid locke and finally 9th, ben.[/quote]

    jacob’s tapestry featured the eye of horus with nine rays shooting down towards people.

  516. Lily says:

    [quote comment="370398"] is the place where ben went to be judged by smokey the same place as the temple?[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    They had to carry Sayid over the hole in the floor that Ben fell through, so it is the place where they were caught and taken to the temple I think

  517. reallylost says:

    I get that somehow, at the moment Juliet detonated the bomb, everyone went forward 30 years. But how convenient is it that the blue VW van and its contents they were using traveled with them, still brand-new looking and running perfectly? I know Hurley found a similar van a few seasons ago but it was a mess and not running at first after sitting idle for 30 years.

    People moving through time I almost get, but things like the van & guitar case are a bit of a stretch.

  518. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment="369880"][quote comment="369877"]Ok, here’s a question. I’m hoping someone can explain this in a way that makes sense to me. We know that Eloise remembers killing Daniel later in life. We know that she knew all along and drove him to go to the island anyway. How come Richard doesn’t ever seem to remember Locke or any of the others he comes into contact with. Hasn’t he “been here for a really long time”, according to Ben and Juliet?[/quote]

    I think we have to consider what might be memorable events to someone. KILLING someone is something you probably won’t EVER forget, especially when you come to find out AFTERwards that it was your own son!

    Otherwise, do you remember EVERY person you have EVER met? While you might remember an event (the mayor coming to your elementary school, for example), you might not remember the faces of those involved. Richard might remember when a bald man came into his camp and started spouting off at the mouth, but not remember the face (just as I couldn’t pick the mayor out of a lineup, to save my life). Hope that makes sense.

    Presumably, Richard has encountered a LOT of people in his “many years” on the island making it even more difficult to remember them all.

    Toeknee explained it well: [quote comment="369878"]…the writers couldn’t have Alpert come out and say, “I met you back in 1954” because that would have given away the time-travel aspect too soon.

    The next time after 1954 that Richard sees Faraday is in “The Variable”, and at one point early in their encounter, Richard says, “Do I know you?”, indicating that Faraday seems familiar to him.[/quote]

    I suspect that if we go back and look at Richard encountering LOSTies he “should” have already known, it might explain some of those “blank” looks on his face.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I haven’t seen anyone mention this. Maybe it is too obvious.
    The title of the premier is “LA X”. The airport is “LAX”. LA is Fernch and other languages for THE. X is the most commom variable in elementary algebra.
    LA X = The Variable. Didn’t seem like a rerun…

Comments are closed.