What Kate Does

Kate - Lost - Season 6
The premiere from last week proved to perpetuate the same theme that most Lost season-starters have done in years past – provide half-answers to a few questions and create a ton of new ones. It would seem this season will lead us on two distinct paths – the path where detonating the hydrogen bomb “worked” in that it prevented Flight 815 from crashing. Path two will be back on the Island, where all of our favorite characters are now in the same timeline and some type of huge conflict is looming. It will be interesting to see how the paths converge and which reality represents a better existence for all involved.

Tonight’s episode will be Kate-centric, as indicated by the description and preview below:

Official Description:

“Kate finds herself on the run; Jack must do something that may endanger a friend’s life”

Episode Preview:

Sneak Peek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ShlMSe51t8&feature=related

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254 Responses to What Kate Does

  1. RGS says:

    My power better not go out tonight!

  2. PJSander says:

    (Quote from the last thread)
    [quote comment="370405"]Are we to assume that Mrs Hawking sank with the island in 1977? Mrs Hawking still has the journal, no? She knew what they were doing with the bomb, right? Didn’t Charles Widmore have a secret way to get on and off the island in the seventies? And doesn’t he hold a lot of water? (no pun, no pun) WHH, and I think due heavily to people with power pulling strings!

    –it seems like every one is under the impression that these people were somehow wiped from existance. I dont think thats the case…[/quote]

    I don’t think that the island necessarily sank *with* the incident. I speculate that some time in the intervening 27 years, someone moved the island – this time under water.

    : ) P

  3. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370403"]My power better not go out tonight![/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Forecasting 6-10 inches of snow in the Detroit area…if a driver hits a pole…I’m not gonna be happy.

  4. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370407"](Quote from the last thread)
    [quote comment="370405"]Are we to assume that Mrs Hawking sank with the island in 1977? Mrs Hawking still has the journal, no? She knew what they were doing with the bomb, right? Didn’t Charles Widmore have a secret way to get on and off the island in the seventies? And doesn’t he hold a lot of water? (no pun, no pun) WHH, and I think due heavily to people with power pulling strings!

    –it seems like every one is under the impression that these people were somehow wiped from existance. I dont think thats the case…[/quote]

    I don’t think that the island necessarily sank *with* the incident. I speculate that some time in the intervening 27 years, someone moved the island – this time under water.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    Good point PJ, though I’m in the camp that says detonation caused it to sink with one foot in the camp that says the island purges itself of the ‘visitors’ everytime it ‘ends the same’.

  5. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370409"]
    Good point PJ, though I’m in the camp that says detonation caused it to sink with one foot in the camp that says the island purges itself of the ‘visitors’ everytime it ‘ends the same’.[/quote]

    We are all just guessing, right? Something that supports the idea that the island moved underwater LATER was someone else’s observation that New Otherton looked like it had been flooded. If it had been underwater for 30 years, there would have been coral etc., there. I recognize that this is building a theory on a theory, but you work with what works!

    : ) P

  6. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370410"][quote comment="370409"]
    Good point PJ, though I’m in the camp that says detonation caused it to sink with one foot in the camp that says the island purges itself of the ‘visitors’ everytime it ‘ends the same’.[/quote]

    We are all just guessing, right? Something that supports the idea that the island moved underwater LATER was someone else’s observation that New Otherton looked like it had been flooded. If it had been underwater for 30 years, there would have been coral etc., there. I recognize that this is building a theory on a theory, but you work with what works!

    : ) P[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++
    Agreed…that’s why I said “good point”. :)

  7. little prince says:

    I got a question about the Smoke monster. Remember when it took the form of Danielles boyfriend ..Richardo (i think)…she shoots him in the head and he dies…

    but when Flocke/monster gets shot…the bullet has no effect on him…could this be a clue to 2 monsters?

    in looking at the scene with Danielle further…the fact that Richardo tries to pull the trigger and fails could be a clue that it is not the monster…but mearly possesed by him..kinda like how Sayid may be possesed by Jacob instead of an apparition like Flocke…

  8. Kat e says:

    [quote comment="370412"]I got a question about the Smoke monster. Remember when it took the form of Danielles boyfriend ..Richardo (i think)…she shoots him in the head and he dies…

    but when Flocke/monster gets shot…the bullet has no effect on him…could this be a clue to 2 monsters?

    in looking at the scene with Danielle further…the fact that Richardo tries to pull the trigger and fails could be a clue that it is not the monster…but mearly possesed by him..kinda like how Sayid may be possesed by Jacob instead of an apparition like Flocke…[/quote]

    I don’t think smokey took the form of Danielle’s BF, more likely brainwashed or jedi-mind tricked him into killing all frenchies. Then again he could have taken BF’s form and chosen to allow the bullet to “kill him” to traumatize daniella and set up what was to come (alex, ben, loophole).

    moi duex francs errrrr euros

  9. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370412"]I got a question about the Smoke monster. Remember when it took the form of Danielles boyfriend ..Richardo (i think)…she shoots him in the head and he dies…

    but when Flocke/monster gets shot…the bullet has no effect on him…could this be a clue to 2 monsters?

    in looking at the scene with Danielle further…the fact that Richardo tries to pull the trigger and fails could be a clue that it is not the monster…but mearly possesed by him..kinda like how Sayid may be possesed by Jacob instead of an apparition like Flocke…[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    Possible, but I think you are bringing a bigger point. I think that may have been the hint that bodies can be possessed. They seemed ‘sick’ to Danielle, maybe they were actually possessed? Maybe Sayid’s body IS being possessed unlike Locke’s body? Hmmmm.

  10. Kat e says:

    Hammer very good point.

    It ties into the whole bury (o burn) the dead on the island to prevent the body fom being possessed.

  11. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370415"]Hammer very good point.

    It ties into the whole bury (o burn) the dead on the island to prevent the body fom being possessed.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yeah, people have said that to prevent MIB from taking on a dead person’s likeness, but maybe it’s both?

  12. Hammer says:

    BTW, a friend reminded me that the firing pin was removed by Danielle and is why Roberto’s gun didn’t fire.

  13. wallyp says:

    …This drowning ritual is common in the temple I’d assume, like with Ben etc. I’m guessing when they said “You’re friend is dead.” They just forgot to say “but wait a few minutes…” Seems like the water is a purification, before the resurection. SO the BIG question I’d say is, did it work exactly as planned, seeing as how the water wasn’t clear, but rather DARK…

  14. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370420"]…This drowning ritual is common in the temple I’d assume, like with Ben etc.

    I’m guessing when they said “You’re friend is dead.” They just forgot to say “but wait a few minutes…” Seems like the water is a purification, before the resurection. SO the BIG question I’d say is, did it work exactly as planned, seeing as how the water wasn’t clear, but rather DARK…[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Maybe, but ‘planned’ by whom. The ‘English taster’ seemed disappointed that the water didn’t fix his hand. I don’t think he and his posse new the dark water would take longer, they thought Sayid was a goner. Maybe Jacob knew?

  15. Angel says:

    [quote comment="370421"][quote comment="370420"]…This drowning ritual is common in the temple I’d assume, like with Ben etc.

    I’m guessing when they said “You’re friend is dead.” They just forgot to say “but wait a few minutes…” Seems like the water is a purification, before the resurection. SO the BIG question I’d say is, did it work exactly as planned, seeing as how the water wasn’t clear, but rather DARK…[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++
    Maybe, but ‘planned’ by whom. The ‘English taster’ seemed disappointed that the water didn’t fix his hand. I don’t think he and his posse new the dark water would take longer, they thought Sayid was a goner. Maybe Jacob knew?[/quote]
    I think the water was supposed to heal Sayid. The leader cut his hand then put it in the water like if it was going to heal it but it didn’t

  16. Kat says:

    I also think the water was supposed to heal him but it didn’t work but Sayid is alive which makes me wonder if it was the water that brought him back to life or something or someone else?

    I just realized that the water killed him, it didn’t heal him. He died because he was drowned. I’m not sure what that means…

  17. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370423"]I also think the water was supposed to heal him but it didn’t work but Sayid is alive which makes me wonder if it was the water that brought him back to life or something or someone else?

    I just realized that the water killed him, it didn’t heal him. He died because he was drowned. I’m not sure what that means…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    I think drowning is one of the ‘risks’ they are warned of, if the one being ‘healed’ doesn’t get ‘healed’ before the sand runs out…get raft and fire ready.

  18. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="370424"][quote comment="370423"]I also think the water was supposed to heal him but it didn’t work but Sayid is alive which makes me wonder if it was the water that brought him back to life or something or someone else?

    I just realized that the water killed him, it didn’t heal him. He died because he was drowned. I’m not sure what that means…[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    I think drowning is one of the ‘risks’ they are warned of, if the one being ‘healed’ doesn’t get ‘healed’ before the sand runs out…get raft and fire ready.[/quote]

    Perhaps the difference is that Jacob has now taken over his body. When Ben was healed, he came back as Ben (though different, lost innocence, etc.) Perhaps whenever Jacob needs another body/host for his soul, he needs an empty/dead vessel. Therefore, perhaps Sayid comes back, but not as his old self.

  19. andre gr says:

    I didn’t quite understand why the paper says that “if your friend here dies, we all are in a lot of trouble”. What is the importance of Sayid to the Others and Jacob? I think that dead Jacob thought that Flocke will eventually kill Richard and that’s why he decided to “chain” Sayid. If that is the case, Richard dies when Sayid wakes up alive.

  20. little prince says:

    Desmond was wearing a ring on the plane…does this mean he is married to penny or possibly someone else?…could penny still be alive in this alternate reality?

  21. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370407"](Quote from the last thread)
    [quote comment="370405"]Are we to assume that Mrs Hawking sank with the island in 1977? Mrs Hawking still has the journal, no? She knew what they were doing with the bomb, right? Didn’t Charles Widmore have a secret way to get on and off the island in the seventies? And doesn’t he hold a lot of water? (no pun, no pun) WHH, and I think due heavily to people with power pulling strings!

    –it seems like every one is under the impression that these people were somehow wiped from existance. I dont think thats the case…[/quote]

    I don’t think that the island necessarily sank *with* the incident. I speculate that some time in the intervening 27 years, someone moved the island – this time under water.

    : ) P[/quote]

    What if this current flight is taking place in 2007 (or later). Maybe the “current ” losties won the war, the island sank and in the process “course corrected” to where the “new” losties are back on track (on the plane), but in a slightly altered reality.

    We don’t know why Kate is on the run in this time-line. Is it still because she killed her step-father, or some other crime?

    If Jack is a more confident person in this time-line (as he appears to be), maybe there was no big comfrontation between him and his dad, no big alcohol problems, dad did not die in 2004.

    Desmond could have finished his race and now is happily on the way to see Penny…

  22. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370426"]I didn’t quite understand why the paper says that “if your friend here dies, we all are in a lot of trouble”. What is the importance of Sayid to the Others and Jacob? I think that dead Jacob thought that Flocke will eventually kill Richard and that’s why he decided to “chain” Sayid. If that is the case, Richard dies when Sayid wakes up alive.[/quote]

    I don’t think Sayid is the one important person… it seems that their names were all on the paper, so most likely the paper has a list of people who ALL have to stay alive for one reason or another… they clearly all play an important role in the war against MIB… and since they all have to remain alive, it seems that they each have very specific roles to play!

  23. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370418"][quote comment="370415"]Hammer very good point.

    It ties into the whole bury (o burn) the dead on the island to prevent the body fom being possessed.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++
    Yeah, people have said that to prevent MIB from taking on a dead person’s likeness, but maybe it’s both?[/quote]

    This seems to be the case – that MIB can resemble the dead that are unburied… but that raises the question of the Walt appariation(s)… he was not dead, though MIB took his form multiple times.

    I wonder how/if they will be able to explain that.. I hope so!

  24. Tasha says:

    I think the island has been under water the whole time. I think this is why they chose this island to test so many studies. Probably went under around the time the statue fell. I think that is why they have to follow certain bearings, why light is different there, why Faraday was so interested in the island and why time is so odd there. I think Walt knows exactly what is going on because he saw it in Hurley’s comic book. I think Desmond hinted at it when he said they were all stuck in snow globe. If that isn’t the Black Rock at the end of that season..then it would explain how it is in the middle of the island, because it sunk there.

    OKay now for the show..

  25. Hammer says:

    Well he only told Sayid two things…that it was a test and that he passed. But he lied about one of them. So Sayid is now either a agent for MIB or and agent for Jacob….

  26. Tasha says:

    Gosh…Jack has said more in the past 25 minutes than he said all last season. LOL

  27. Hammer says:

    So it’s an ‘infection’, but not really, that’s just the best way for us to understand. Same infection the French folk got…hmmmm.

  28. Toeknee says:

    I was psyched to hear Lennon say “If you let us talk to Sayid, we’ll be happy to answer any of your questions.”

    Shoulda known Jack wouldn’t follow up on this offer…..

  29. Ben says:

    Oy a Kate episode.

  30. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370436"]I was psyched to hear Lennon say “If you let us talk to Sayid, we’ll be happy to answer any of your questions.”

    Shoulda known Jack wouldn’t follow up on this offer…..[/quote]
    At least he was persuasive and finding out what’s in the pill – go Jack!

  31. Toeknee says:

    Seeing Ethan was a real “Oh crap” moment. I guess he’s a good guy now, but he still comes across as ultracreepy.

  32. Tasha says:

    Is that Alex on the preview of The Forgotten? I saw Bernard…just wondering if that was ALex with makeup.

  33. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370439"]Seeing Ethan was a real “Oh crap” moment. I guess he’s a good guy now, but he still comes across as ultracreepy.[/quote]

    ANd his last name was Goodspeed. Strange.

  34. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370440"]Is that Alex on the preview of The Forgotten? I saw Bernard…just wondering if that was ALex with makeup.[/quote]
    I saw Bernard, but missed Alex. I’ll have to look for her

  35. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370441"][quote comment="370439"]Seeing Ethan was a real “Oh crap” moment. I guess he’s a good guy now, but he still comes across as ultracreepy.[/quote]

    ANd his last name was Goodspeed. Strange.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    That part made sense – his father was HOrace Goodspeed, and that part shouldn’t change

  36. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370440"]Is that Alex on the preview of The Forgotten? I saw Bernard…just wondering if that was ALex with makeup.[/quote]

    Yes.

    : ) P

  37. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370441"] ANd [Ethan's] last name was Goodspeed. Strange.[/quote]

    He was Horace and Amy’s son, so that makes sense. Doesn’t it?

    : ) P

  38. Tasha says:

    Oh wow! I totally forgot about him being Horace’s son!

  39. Toeknee says:

    So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?

  40. Ben says:

    That whole hospital sceene was just eeerry.

  41. Ben says:

    Im sorry where did Sawyer buy a ring on the island?

  42. ninny says:

    What was the prison break the other was talking about? Was it when they were captured by Dharma and put in the cages?
    Danielle wasn’t infected was she? I thought it was the other French guys. But Claire looked as crazy as Danielle did and they said she was infected.

    It seemed like the fact that Sayid felt pain meant he didn’t pass the test. Could the ones that are healed not be able to feel pain? Ben was healed as a boy and then became a cold hearted bugger. He woke up during his surgery with Jack. But he did seem to be in pain when he was shot by Danielle.
    I don’t know – it is just seems a “little” crazy!!

  43. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370447"]So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    I think we kind of already ‘knew’ that, we just didn’t know how.

    I almost feel like this episode doesn’t need disecting…I’m not sure what to do. LOL

  44. DANTE says:

    Toeknee
    Comment 39, posted 1 minute ago – Quote and reply
    So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?
    ——————————————–
    dude Christian is dead, smokey most likely manifests his body and convinced claire to join him. atleast they start giving us answers, but left some huge questions. The whole claire situation and her being alive at the end i thought it was Kate that shot the others. By the looks of nexts weeks preview it may be a sawyer ep. And hopefully smokey answers some major questions. The island itself why kill jacob, why go home?

  45. ninny says:

    I think we definately got more questions than answers tonight.
    But I so knew that Ethan was going to be the Dr!!

  46. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370450"]What was the prison break the other was talking about? Was it when they were captured by Dharma and put in the cages?
    Danielle wasn’t infected was she? I thought it was the other French guys. But Claire looked as crazy as Danielle did and they said she was infected.

    It seemed like the fact that Sayid felt pain meant he didn’t pass the test. Could the ones that are healed not be able to feel pain? Ben was healed as a boy and then became a cold hearted bugger. He woke up during his surgery with Jack. But he did seem to be in pain when he was shot by Danielle.
    I don’t know – it is just seems a “little” crazy!![/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    That’s my thinking. Ben was starting to feel pain again because he was falling out of favor with the island/Jacob…he got cancer too.

  47. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370453"]I think we definately got more questions than answers tonight.
    But I so knew that Ethan was going to be the Dr!![/quote]

    I was thinking Juliet at first.

    So I am confused, is Claire not Claire anymore?

  48. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370452"]By the looks of nexts weeks preview it may be a XXXXX. And hopefully XXXXX answers some major questions. The XXXXX itself why XXXXX, why XXXXX?[/quote]

    As listed in the guidelines above the comment form:

    No spoilers or discussion of episode previews.

    Dude. Please.

    : ) P

  49. Tasha says:

    This really is messing up my theory on Claire’s psychic. Of course who knows if there even was a psychic this time around….

  50. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370451"][quote comment="370447"]So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    I think we kind of already ‘knew’ that, we just didn’t know how.

    I almost feel like this episode doesn’t need disecting…I’m not sure what to do. LOL[/quote]
    __________________________
    I guess I was thinking that Jacob was doing some of the manifestations of Christian. Like, the fact that he (dead Christian) appeared off-island. And I was leaning to the idea that MIB/Smokey can’t appear off-island. But if he can, then perhaps he was Charlie also? Too confusing.

  51. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370455"][quote comment="370453"]I think we definately got more questions than answers tonight.
    But I so knew that Ethan was going to be the Dr!![/quote]

    I was thinking Juliet at first.

    So I am confused, is Claire not Claire anymore?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    IMO, if we are to believe Dogan, when the darkness got to her heart, she will no longer be ‘who’ they were. So Claire is no longer Claire. She looked like death warmed over before she wondered off. So it appears she died in the explosion, then was claimed, then she wandered off to meet CS in the cabin…and now she is an MIB army member.

  52. 2Lost says:

    Jack and Kate seem like they remember the other losties but everyone else is clueless. I think Kate ans Jack are trying to make things right in the new time line Whats there purpose?

  53. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370458"][quote comment="370451"][quote comment="370447"]So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    I think we kind of already ‘knew’ that, we just didn’t know how.

    I almost feel like this episode doesn’t need disecting…I’m not sure what to do. LOL[/quote]
    __________________________
    I guess I was thinking that Jacob was doing some of the manifestations of Christian. Like, the fact that he (dead Christian) appeared off-island. And I was leaning to the idea that MIB/Smokey can’t appear off-island. But if he can, then perhaps he was Charlie also? Too confusing.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Well, I think MIB used CS’s body to mimic. But Claire is ‘infected’. I think there is a difference. I’m not convinced that he was ALL the dead people we’ve seen because we now know Hugo can talk to the dead. So the dead folks motive will determine whether is was MIB or themselves.

  54. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370459"][quote comment="370455"][quote comment="370453"]I think we definately got more questions than answers tonight.
    But I so knew that Ethan was going to be the Dr!![/quote]

    I was thinking Juliet at first.

    So I am confused, is Claire not Claire anymore?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    IMO, if we are to believe Dogan, when the darkness got to her heart, she will no longer be ‘who’ they were. So Claire is no longer Claire. She looked like death warmed over before she wondered off. So it appears she died in the explosion, then was claimed, then she wandered off to meet CS in the cabin…and now she is an MIB army member.[/quote]

    So how would you characterize her now? Is she Danielle? Or just…there..as…an evil thing?

  55. Tasha says:

    I am sorry Hammer. Here is the question I want to ask. If they ask her what her name is…what do you think she will say?

  56. Hammer says:

    Ah ha Tasha, don’t have enough info, but my guess….she would say Claire because she doesn’t know she’s infected. but just knows what her mission is.

  57. Hammer says:

    Although we still don’t know which side is ‘good’. It would seem to me that if you have to ‘infect’ people to get them to fight for you….you are on the bad side.

  58. Hammer says:

    Infected folks don’t have free will? But Jacob’s folks do, he let Ben decide if he wanted to kill or walk away. He chose to kill.

  59. Toeknee says:

    I wonder what the rules are for “infecting” someone. Do they have to be on the verge of death, or have recently died, for MIB to infect them? Is there a time frame within which the infection has to occur? Why were only certain people infected – why not everyone? Why was Montand killed instead of infected?

  60. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370450"]What was the prison break the other was talking about? Was it when they were captured by Dharma and put in the cages?
    [/quote]
    It was in that series of episodes. I think he was specifically referring to when they rescued Karl from Room 23.

  61. Tasha says:

    So Claire is like a Zombie with a gun now? I wonder if she remembers Aaron. Next week she will be running around talking about someone took her baby in the middle of the night.

  62. Toeknee says:

    Did you guys notice the new quote and reply effect? If there are multiple comments being quoted, you can see which comments belong to which poster. Much better than it used to be.

  63. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370469"]So Claire is like a Zombie with a gun now? I wonder if she remembers Aaron. Next week she will be running around talking about someone took her baby in the middle of the night.[/quote]
    LOL yeah – D&C have always joked about the zombie season, and now it appears that Season 6 may be just that.

  64. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370469"]So Claire is like a Zombie with a gun now? I wonder if she remembers Aaron. Next week she will be running around talking about someone took her baby in the middle of the night.[/quote]

    As long as she doesn’t talk about dingoes, I’m okay with that! *g*

    There has to be a story-arc purpose to Kate, Sawyer and Jin being outside the temple. I guess Jin’s is to discover “Claire” but I am hard-pressed to figure out why Kate and Sawyer are out.

    : ) P

  65. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370471"]
    LOL yeah – D&C have always joked about the zombie season, and now it appears that Season 6 may be just that.[/quote]

    When we first got to the time-travel episodes, I worried that season six would end up being the zombie season. I am not sure that I will like all these characters being “claimed” or possessed by MIB or Jacob or whomever. It feels mildly contrived and I want to believe that D&C are better than that.

    : ) P

  66. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370472"][quote comment="370469"]So Claire is like a Zombie with a gun now? I wonder if she remembers Aaron. Next week she will be running around talking about someone took her baby in the middle of the night.[/quote]

    As long as she doesn’t talk about dingoes, I’m okay with that! *g*

    There has to be a story-arc purpose to Kate, Sawyer and Jin being outside the temple. I guess Jin’s is to discover “Claire” but I am hard-pressed to figure out why Kate and Sawyer are out.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Jin’s is to find Sun, Kate and Sawyer is to discover that Locke is Flocke?

  67. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370473"][quote comment="370471"]
    LOL yeah – D&C have always joked about the zombie season, and now it appears that Season 6 may be just that.[/quote]

    When we first got to the time-travel episodes, I worried that season six would end up being the zombie season. I am not sure that I will like all these characters being “claimed” or possessed by MIB or Jacob or whomever. It feels mildly contrived and I want to believe that D&C are better than that.

    : ) P[/quote]
    My first thought is that since Jacob is the one that is able to bring folks to the island, they need a vehicle to get soldiers for MIBs army.

  68. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370474"]
    Jin’s is to find Sun, Kate and Sawyer is to discover that Locke is Flocke?[/quote]

    Jin’s mission is to find Sun, yes. But in the overall arc of the story, there may be more to it. Like when the hatch stories were unfolding, there was always a reason that X & Y were off in the jungle at given times.

    My guess is that Sawyer or Kate (or both) will find Sun before Jin does. They need a really good build up to their reunion – the kind like we had with Desmond and Penny.

    Speaking of whom… are their stories over I wonder?

    : ) P

  69. Black Horse says:

    So…I was thinking that the scene where Christian & Claire are in Jacob’s cabin they were really both on the MIB’s team and had nothing to do with Jacob at all. Iliana said on the final episode of last season that Jacob hadn’t been there for a LONG time and there was a break in the ashes. So the MIB/smokey/infected people are the ones who have been inhabiting the cabin in the recent past.

  70. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370476"][quote comment="370474"]
    Jin’s is to find Sun, Kate and Sawyer is to discover that Locke is Flocke?[/quote]

    Jin’s mission is to find Sun, yes. But in the overall arc of the story, there may be more to it. Like when the hatch stories were unfolding, there was always a reason that X & Y were off in the jungle at given times.

    My guess is that Sawyer or Kate (or both) will find Sun before Jin does. They need a really good build up to their reunion – the kind like we had with Desmond and Penny.

    Speaking of whom… are their stories over I wonder?

    : ) P[/quote]
    Des and Penny are not done for two reasons:

    They have to show us how they are Adam and Eve.
    Ms. Hawking told Des the island isn’t done with him yet.

  71. Murphey says:

    Dogen said that if Sayid isn’t killed that the infection will spread. Does that just mean spread to his heart or spread to other people?

    Sayid and the Frenchies were infected in or near the temple. I wonder if Claire was dragged to the temple too?

  72. Kyle says:

    This season is pretty crap so far…

  73. Loster says:

    The shot of Claire at the end in the jungly eerily reminded me of Rousseau when we first met her. Maybe Rousseau was infected as well. They have similar story arcs, both had there child taken away from them. And the traps. Claire’s definitely gone into the trap making business ala Rousseau…

  74. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    What in the heck was Dogan typing? A letter for a carrier polar bear to take to another camp? LOL

  75. Shadow says:

    I was disappointed in this episode. First of all it was a “kate” episode. Second, it hardly answered any questions and this is supposed to be the LAST season! I really want all of my questions answered at the end of this.

  76. webreg says:

    here the Season 6, Episode 3 – “What Kate Does”
    streaming http://episodeonline.com/video/10373/Lost%206×3/Lost/

  77. Shadow says:

    what was supposed to be the meaning of Ethan off island and as Claire’s doctor? Is that as a result of no island effect?

  78. mrs markelz says:

    how did sayid become infected or claire was it in the temple? if the infection has to do with mib/smokey than how can the temple be involved i thought that smokey/mib wasnt welcome at the temple werent they trying to keep him out with the ash? im confussed

  79. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="370447"]So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?[/quote]
    [quote comment="370467"]I wonder what the rules are for “infecting” someone. Do they have to be on the verge of death, or have recently died, for MIB to infect them? Is there a time frame within which the infection has to occur? Why were only certain people infected – why not everyone? Why was Montand killed instead of infected?[/quote]

    Yhea, I wonder why all of the Darmah people in the body pit are still there.

    They werent burned or burried.

    Where is the Richard Episode !!!???

  80. mrs markelz says:

    how did sayid become infected or claire was it in the temple? if the infection has to do with mib/smokey than how can the temple be involved i thought that smokey/mib wasnt welcome at the temple werent they trying to keep him out with the ash?

  81. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="370480"]This season is pretty crap so far…[/quote]

    I couldn’t agree more, especially about this episode. You have to call it like you see it, and this episode was not good. I know that a general theme of this show is that none of the characters stop to ask what the heck’s going on, but there were instances tonight where it was just preposterous that they didn’t. And if it’s so important to the Temple Others that Sawyer stay, uh, TELL SAWYER WHY HE NEEDS TO STAY! It’s ludicrous to just expect him to do what they want without telling him anything. It’s bordering on stupid now.

    And if this show is just about bodies being controlled to fight for one guy vs. another, honestly, that’s kind of lame. There better be a more grand endgame to this whole thing.

  82. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370486"]what was supposed to be the meaning of Ethan off island and as Claire’s doctor? Is that as a result of no island effect?[/quote]

    I think that was just another example of showing the parallels of the two timelines, and how fate or destiny always has a role in affecting the characters’ lives, no matter how hard they try to change things (i.e., course correction). Some other parallels in this episode:

    – Circumstances arose that cause Claire to not give the baby up for adoption (and perhaps in a future episode, we’ll see Kate act as caregiver for Aaron?)

    – Kate plays a role in helping the pregnant Claire (just like on the island, she helped deliver the baby)

    – In the hospital scene, there were some fleeting moments where it seemed the unborn baby may have died (just like Claire couldn’t feel the baby kick for the first few days on the island)

    – In the midst of stressing out, Claire suddenly calls the baby “Aaron”

    – And the aforementioned instance of Ethan treating pregnant Claire.

    So the incident/bomb detonation (or not)/time flash may have resulted in two separate timelines, but for whatever reason, these characters lives were meant to intersect.

    Now, having said that, what does it all mean?

  83. Buddha says:

    [quote comment="370465"]Although we still don’t know which side is ‘good’. It would seem to me that if you have to ‘infect’ people to get them to fight for you….you are on the bad side.[/quote]

    Yes… but the opposing side (either good or bad) would use words like “infected” to describe the recruitment tactics of their opponents.

    I’m thinking the MIB might not be that bad after all. Especially after the schooling he gave Ben in the foot of the statue.

    I think the free choice vs. fatalistic predetermination is a theme I’d like to think about more. Sorta goes back to how Locke was always thinking there was a reason to his existence on the island, while Jack always believed that “it is what it is.”

  84. LostGrrl says:

    Great line:
    JACK: “You have a few questions? Well so do we!”

    I was hoping that meant D&C were telling us we were about to get some answers. Alas, not in this episode.

    Also, D&C have previously said there would be no more “whooshing” noise between scenes because there would be no more flash forwards/backs. But there is a noise between scenes in this flash sideways scenario, and I think it sounds like an airplane and the shudder before Oceanic broke apart. Anyone else notice?

  85. Nikki says:

    I was not impressed with that episode last night. Even actors have lost their steam!! HOpe it gets better. Jumping the Shark!!

  86. Sam says:

    All this talk about the Smoke Monster taking the form of the unburied dead sounds right to me. That also makes me think that he took on Christian’s body(Jack’s dad). Christian was in the cabin and he was with Claire. If Claire is evil and “infected” it stands to reason that Christian did it or led her to the spring that infected her. Also after Locke fell down the well, broke his leg, and crawled to the wheel all in an effort to stop the islands time travel, Christian was there and he said he would help him. That certainly doesn’t sound like Smokey to me. Unless Smokey helped Locke because he needed all the Oceanic 6 back on the island. It may be that the Oceanic 6 are critical to the island because they are the only people who can destroy Smokey. So Smokey wants them back so he can destroy them first.

  87. Mal says:

    I want some clarification about what all this “infection, disease” nonsense is about…

    Sayid and Claire’s “infections” certainly seem to resemble those of Rousseau’s crew…

    (Side note – though I also noticed the similarities of Claire and Danielle, I don’t think Danielle was “infected” – I think it’s more of a consequence of living alone on the island for a long time).

    If the French and Losties cases are the same – do you have to die before you become “infected”? If so, then Rousseau’s friends must have been killed by Smokey and then somehow brought back to life from him… maybe they did go to the temple, but why would they have been allowed to leave afterward?

    Also, are these “infections” related to what the Dharma Initiative was fighting against when we first met Desmond? The quarantined hatch, the latex jumpsuits and gas masks…. I assumed this was to prevent against another gassing a la Ben, but then… why the vaccinations?

    And then, finally… the Others have these vaccinations as well. That must mean that DI’s damage control was not for the gassing, but for whatever “infection” there is on the island?

    I’m guessing that means there was a time, about 16 years ago, when MIB was gaining forces like mad.

    Maybe that was when the DI casualties were tossed in the mass grave and not buried…

    Also, does this have any connection to babies not being born on the island?

    When oh when will the answers come?!

  88. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="370488"][quote comment="370447"]So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?[/quote]
    [quote comment="370467"]I wonder what the rules are for “infecting” someone. Do they have to be on the verge of death, or have recently died, for MIB to infect them? Is there a time frame within which the infection has to occur? Why were only certain people infected – why not everyone? Why was Montand killed instead of infected?[/quote]

    Yhea, I wonder why all of the Darmah people in the body pit are still there.

    They werent burned or burried.

    Where is the Richard Episode !!!???[/quote]

    Smokey apparently wasn’t interested in the Dharma people or couldn’t infect them. Probably the Dharma people have been dead too long to be infected now. Christian didn’t seem like a zombie so presumably he was raised from the dead by Smokey. Seems more likely his persona was just being used like with Locke. The odd thing is just that Christian’s body was missing from the the casket.

    Maybe at the time the Others didn’t care if they were infected since they were kept outside their territory anyway.

    I wonder if the mark of Jacob protected people from infection, but no longer works now that Jacob is dead. Claire wasn’t marked as far as we know, right?

    Why didn’t Smokey infect Mr. Eko? If the only requirement for infection is being wounded or dead, seem like Smokey could have handled that. Maybe there is some sort of spiritual requirement too. If he had repented, could he have been infected? But Sayid was not questioned by Smokey, maybe different rules for different routes of infection.

    There is going to be a Richard episode, I think Episode 9, according to some website I saw.

  89. TD says:

    I think in each episode we see there will be parallels just like we saw tonight…

    @ Toeknee- you made great observations-

    there are also so many of them with Kate and Sawyer from last night too and how their relationship with progress or end? I think she wanted to admit that she came back for him she was holding out saying it and was not expecting that he really chose Juliet! BURN

  90. Murphey says:

    WHH.

    I still think the bomb had always been set off by the Losties causing the incident just like it did. Seems like they otherwise wouldn’t have sent the women and children away in the sub since the incident would otherwise have taken them by surprise. The only reason Dr. Chang was concerned was because he was warned by the Losties.

    Also, the interaction of the exotic matter and the bomb might have caused the explosion to be less powerful and thus not destroying the island. Faraday said something about the forces cancelling each other out I think.

    Eloise and Widmore seemed to know they were sending Faraday to his death on the island. They blamed each other after visiting Desmond in the Hospital. Eloise killed him in the past meaning he was on the island in the 70s. Therefore the Losties must have been there in the 70s too. They all did exactly what they always did.

    The flash sideways is what will happen in 2004 after the war/end game which will cause the island to be sunk in the past.

  91. wallyp says:

    Big thing I noticed, and I wonder if it was on purpose, was how I spent the entire show realizing how much I forgot what a sweet honey pot Claire is,, then suddenly she becomes Captain Caveman.

    This infection thing is one of those “answers” that made total sense to me at first, but then wrecked my brain the more I thought about it. Gonna have to let it slide till next week…

    I feel like the LA X story is slowly unfolding into the real climax point now, and this island tale is just keeping the island action going, until LA X gets somewhere.

    Friend of mine said that the house where the adoption lady lived was Jack and Kates house in season 4, anyone else notice that? I wasn’t sure.

  92. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="370449"]Im sorry where did Sawyer buy a ring on the island?[/quote]

    Same place the Others bought books for their book club, or food for their houses. Not a stretch of the imagination to think they had a place to buy stuff like these.

    Something must be said about Sawyer in this episode. Heartbreaking. Just some great acting by Josh Holloway.

  93. Tasha says:

    I thought this was interesting.

    The Underworld and the Great Scales of Truth Ritual
    Spell 125, the ‘Declaration of Innocence’, was chanted when entering the Hall of Truth consisting of denials such as “I have not killed, I have not robbed and I have not lied” made to Osiris and the 42 judges of the court. The jackal headed Anubis and Thoth, the god of writing, presided over the ritual. The heart of the dead Egyptian was weighed against the feather-symbol of Truth by the falcon-headed god Horus. The deceased only passed the test if the heart was as light as the feather. Everyone was afraid of this trial as next to the scales the fierce female demon called Amemit, waited (the Great Swallower), who was depicted with the head of a crocodile combined with elements of other dreaded creatures, the body of a hippopotamus, and the hind legs of a lioness. The fate of the deceased would then be decided – either entrance into the perfect afterlife or to be sent to the Devourer of the Dead. If the deceased passed the test the judges pronounced the following divine order:

    “He is justified. The Swallowing Monster shall have no power over him.”

  94. Tasha says:

    Oh and this too…

    The Ancient Egyptians believed that each person was thought to have three souls – the Ka, the Ba and the Akh:

    *

    The Ka or double was a less solid duplicate of the body. Without a physical body the soul had no place to dwell and became restless forever
    *

    The Ba was able to leave the tomb and revisit the dead person’s haunts in the mortal world.
    *

    The Akh was the immortal soul which emerged when the Ka and the Ba united after the deceased person passed judgement in the underworld

    All of these entities, or elements of the soul were perishable and therefore at great risk. The tomb, the process of mummification, rituals and magic spells promoted the well-being, and ensured the preservation, of the dead and their Ka, Ba and Ahku.

  95. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370441"][quote comment="370439"]Seeing Ethan was a real “Oh crap” moment. I guess he’s a good guy now, but he still comes across as ultracreepy.[/quote]

    ANd his last name was Goodspeed. Strange.[/quote]
    Why was this strange? He was born to Horace and Amy GOODSPEED so hi slast name shoul dhave been that.

  96. Miraks says:

    Few observations. Any thoughts?

    Free will vs. destiny. In the “old” time line Claire was kidnapped and given a shot while pregnant. Now she is given the choice whether she wants it and CHOOSES to get a shot.

    Kate says to Claire: “Would you believe me if I told you I was innocent?” Is she this time around?

    Parallel between Desmond throwing the engagement ring into the water and now Sawyer doing the same. Are Sawyer and Juliet the new star-crossed lovers in this time-line?

  97. wallyp says:

    Claires outburst of “his name is Aaron” is somewhat similar to how John Lockes mom decided to suddenly name him John, and Bens mom also decided suddenly that his name would be Ben…. anybody thinkin thst they were born on island in another reality also?

  98. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370497"]I want some clarification about what all this “infection, disease” nonsense is about…

    Sayid and Claire’s “infections” certainly seem to resemble those of Rousseau’s crew…

    (Side note – though I also noticed the similarities of Claire and Danielle, I don’t think Danielle was “infected” – I think it’s more of a consequence of living alone on the island for a long time).

    If the French and Losties cases are the same – do you have to die before you become “infected”? If so, then Rousseau’s friends must have been killed by Smokey and then somehow brought back to life from him… maybe they did go to the temple, but why would they have been allowed to leave afterward?

    Also, are these “infections” related to what the Dharma Initiative was fighting against when we first met Desmond? The quarantined hatch, the latex jumpsuits and gas masks…. I assumed this was to prevent against another gassing a la Ben, but then… why the vaccinations?

    And then, finally… the Others have these vaccinations as well. That must mean that DI’s damage control was not for the gassing, but for whatever “infection” there is on the island?

    I’m guessing that means there was a time, about 16 years ago, when MIB was gaining forces like mad.

    Maybe that was when the DI casualties were tossed in the mass grave and not buried…

    Also, does this have any connection to babies not being born on the island?

    When oh when will the answers come?![/quote]
    What makes everyone think that Claire is infected? The last we saw her she was hanging out in the cabin with a not really there Christian Shephard. This would lead me to believe that she has been alone all this time and gone a little stir crazy just like Danielle. Not sure why everyone thinks she has been infected? She has been by herself for at least three years seeing as how Sawyer, Juliette, et al lived in Dharmaville for this long. It would screw with anyone’s mind if you were alone on an island for three years alas Tom Hanks in Castaway.

  99. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370477"]So…I was thinking that the scene where Christian & Claire are in Jacob’s cabin they were really both on the MIB’s team and had nothing to do with Jacob at all. Iliana said on the final episode of last season that Jacob hadn’t been there for a LONG time and there was a break in the ashes. So the MIB/smokey/infected people are the ones who have been inhabiting the cabin in the recent past.[/quote]

    I have thought/ said that ,too. I also think that when Locke saw/ heard Jacob in the cabin, it might have realy been MIB. Maybe MIB talked/ selected Locke because he saw him as being the one who could be used or manipulated the easiest.

  100. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370507"][quote comment="370441"][quote comment="370439"]Seeing Ethan was a real “Oh crap” moment. I guess he’s a good guy now, but he still comes across as ultracreepy.[/quote]

    ANd his last name was Goodspeed. Strange.[/quote]
    Why was this strange? He was born to Horace and Amy GOODSPEED so hi slast name shoul dhave been that.[/quote]

    I agree, but some people found it strange because he had previously been introduced to us as “Ethan Rom”.

  101. Jon says:

    My feelings towards this whole infecting someone else’s body is the following:

    MIB –> Locke
    Claire –> Rousseau
    Charlie –> Sayid

    My explanation towards thinking that Charlie has “infected” Sayid’s body is that because at the end of episode 2 the way he said, “what happened?” sounded strangely like Charlie and I even think somewhere he has ended an another episode saying the same thing. Also He thanked Jack for saving his life, maybe referring to when they were on the plane and he knew that Jack didn’t remember that because he came back to the island another way. This could bring in the discussion again that they came back after the story of them landing in LAX making the island a flash forward. If you think about it, when we figure out someone is infected we see a quality of the person who is “infecting”. MIB = smoke, Rousseau = traps and shooting. Also Charlie has been walking the island because Hurley has seen him. I agree with the theory that if the bodies are not buried then it is able to be infected. Maybe the list has something to do with this infecting?

  102. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370510"][quote comment="370497"]I want some clarification about what all this “infection, disease” nonsense is about…

    Sayid and Claire’s “infections” certainly seem to resemble those of Rousseau’s crew…

    (Side note – though I also noticed the similarities of Claire and Danielle, I don’t think Danielle was “infected” – I think it’s more of a consequence of living alone on the island for a long time).

    If the French and Losties cases are the same – do you have to die before you become “infected”? If so, then Rousseau’s friends must have been killed by Smokey and then somehow brought back to life from him… maybe they did go to the temple, but why would they have been allowed to leave afterward?

    Also, are these “infections” related to what the Dharma Initiative was fighting against when we first met Desmond? The quarantined hatch, the latex jumpsuits and gas masks…. I assumed this was to prevent against another gassing a la Ben, but then… why the vaccinations?

    And then, finally… the Others have these vaccinations as well. That must mean that DI’s damage control was not for the gassing, but for whatever “infection” there is on the island?

    I’m guessing that means there was a time, about 16 years ago, when MIB was gaining forces like mad.

    Maybe that was when the DI casualties were tossed in the mass grave and not buried…

    Also, does this have any connection to babies not being born on the island?

    When oh when will the answers come?![/quote]
    What makes everyone think that Claire is infected? The last we saw her she was hanging out in the cabin with a not really there Christian Shephard. This would lead me to believe that she has been alone all this time and gone a little stir crazy just like Danielle. Not sure why everyone thinks she has been infected? She has been by herself for at least three years seeing as how Sawyer, Juliette, et al lived in Dharmaville for this long. It would screw with anyone’s mind if you were alone on an island for three years alas Tom Hanks in Castaway.[/quote]
    +++++++++++++++++++
    What makes us think that is Dogan said she was infected. I know that doesn’t make it true…but it’s what makes us think it.

  103. Miraks says:

    I did think that Sayid’s behavior after he woke up was “off”. The whole thing with him crying “why are you doing this to me?”, and complaining about being tortured (a nice parallel to his previous life though it was), just did not sit well with me. I can’t imagine the “real” Sayid acting that way.

  104. Jon says:

    [quote comment="370515"]I did think that Sayid’s behavior after he woke up was “off”. The whole thing with him crying “why are you doing this to me?”, and complaining about being tortured (a nice parallel to his previous life though it was), just did not sit well with me. I can’t imagine the “real” Sayid acting that way.[/quote]

    Why he failed the test. I agree.

  105. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370513"]My feelings towards this whole infecting someone else’s body is the following:

    MIB –> Locke
    Claire –> Rousseau
    Charlie –> Sayid

    My explanation towards thinking that Charlie has “infected” Sayid’s body is that because at the end of episode 2 the way he said, “what happened?” sounded strangely like Charlie and I even think somewhere he has ended an another episode saying the same thing. Also He thanked Jack for saving his life, maybe referring to when they were on the plane and he knew that Jack didn’t remember that because he came back to the island another way. This could bring in the discussion again that they came back after the story of them landing in LAX making the island a flash forward. If you think about it, when we figure out someone is infected we see a quality of the person who is “infecting”. MIB = smoke, Rousseau = traps and shooting. Also Charlie has been walking the island because Hurley has seen him. I agree with the theory that if the bodies are not buried then it is able to be infected. Maybe the list has something to do with this infecting?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Very interesting about Charlie, not ready to buy it, but interesting.

  106. Jon says:

    If he poisoned him, it releases the spirit, maybe the goal is to get everyone in their original bodies and then they can all go home.

  107. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370496"]
    Also after Locke fell down the well, broke his leg, and crawled to the wheel all in an effort to stop the islands time travel, Christian was there and he said he would help him. That certainly doesn’t sound like Smokey to me. Unless Smokey helped Locke because he needed all the Oceanic 6 back on the island. It may be that the Oceanic 6 are critical to the island because they are the only people who can destroy Smokey. So Smokey wants them back so he can destroy them first.[/quote]

    My take is that Christian/Smokey was “helpful” to Locke in that scene so ultimately Jacob would be killed. When Christian/Smokey confirmed to Locke that Locke would have to die in order to get the O6 to come back, this helped ensure that:

    – all of the off-island events in S5 would occur, including Ben killing Locke and Locke being brought back on flight 316
    – Smokey could manifest itself as dead Locke
    – Smokey could manifest itself as dead Alex and convince Ben to do everything Locke says
    – Smokey (in the form of Locke) could convince Ben to kill Jacob

  108. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370466"]Infected folks don’t have free will? But Jacob’s folks do, he let Ben decide if he wanted to kill or walk away. He chose to kill.[/quote]

    **************
    agree! What a twist it will be if MIB is actually the “good” side…

  109. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370462"][quote comment="370459"][quote comment="370455"][quote comment="370453"]I think we definately got more questions than answers tonight.
    But I so knew that Ethan was going to be the Dr!![/quote]

    I was thinking Juliet at first.

    So I am confused, is Claire not Claire anymore?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    IMO, if we are to believe Dogan, when the darkness got to her heart, she will no longer be ‘who’ they were. So Claire is no longer Claire. She looked like death warmed over before she wondered off. So it appears she died in the explosion, then was claimed, then she wandered off to meet CS in the cabin…and now she is an MIB army member.[/quote]

    So how would you characterize her now? Is she Danielle? Or just…there..as…an evil thing?[/quote]

    ********
    She is very Danielle Like…baby is gone, she sets traps, can use a gun…(boy she looked scary)
    Not sure if I think she is dead or infected. If you are infected there must not be a cure other than the poison?

    How did smokey “infect” Syaid? And Miles knows something! There is a reason he keeps having those questioning looks on his face!

  110. LIJ says:

    I could be wrong, but it looks like the date on the ultrasound is 10/22/2004…this flight was a month later???

  111. mrs markelz says:

    [quote comment="370515"]I did think that Sayid’s behavior after he woke up was “off”. The whole thing with him crying “why are you doing this to me?”, and complaining about being tortured (a nice parallel to his previous life though it was), just did not sit well with me. I can’t imagine the “real” Sayid acting that way.[/quote]
    ********
    i was thinking that exact same thing – that was not sayid. but “who” was it. i dont think its the mib who is infecting him because he is off galivanting in the woods carrying richard around and playing locke. can he be in 2 places at once?

  112. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370483"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    What in the heck was Dogan typing? A letter for a carrier polar bear to take to another camp? LOL[/quote]

    ******
    funny…and on that subject, why the two camps? Why did some live at temple and other “Others” lived more of a nomadic life?

  113. Hammer says:

    How did Smokey infect Sayid? First thought…when Jacob died, the water went from white (clear) to black (dirty). The water is now MIB’s instead of Jacob’s.

  114. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370461"][quote comment="370458"][quote comment="370451"][quote comment="370447"]So does this mean Claire is allied with MIB? And does that mean Christian is too?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++=
    I think we kind of already ‘knew’ that, we just didn’t know how.

    I almost feel like this episode doesn’t need disecting…I’m not sure what to do. LOL[/quote]
    __________________________
    I guess I was thinking that Jacob was doing some of the manifestations of Christian. Like, the fact that he (dead Christian) appeared off-island. And I was leaning to the idea that MIB/Smokey can’t appear off-island. But if he can, then perhaps he was Charlie also? Too confusing.[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++
    Well, I think MIB used CS’s body to mimic. But Claire is ‘infected’. I think there is a difference. I’m not convinced that he was ALL the dead people we’ve seen because we now know Hugo can talk to the dead. So the dead folks motive will determine whether is was MIB or themselves.[/quote]
    ****
    I like that maybe the poison is needed to get the infection out and that it might not kill Sayid…just rid him of the darkness within him.

    Not sure if I think off island Christian is MIB or Jacob (still interesting that the smoke dectector was going off)…but I do think Jack might be back on the island to “save” his father and maybe even “claire” from the “infection”. He was not able to “save” his dad earlier and this is how it will be done.

  115. silentlucidity says:

    [quote comment="370449"]Im sorry where did Sawyer buy a ring on the island?[/quote]
    They were there for 3 years in 1977 so when the sub would come and go he probably told someone to bring him one.

    M

  116. C.E.Winchester III says:

    @ Ben wrote: Im sorry where did Sawyer buy a ring on the island?

    He was also island Top Cop for awhile. Maybe he got it off of a dead body….. or out of the evidence storage room.

  117. Duke says:

    I found it very interesting that Kate was wearing virtually the same outfit in the new La as she did on the island. Those khaki pants were a great way to show some continuity to seasons past.

  118. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370522"]I could be wrong, but it looks like the date on the ultrasound is 10/22/2004…this flight was a month later???[/quote]

    Yep. Which means that Locke had more than enough time to go on his walk-about.

    My “prediction”: we’ll see that the island sank sometime b/w the original flight date and this new flight date.

  119. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370512"][quote comment="370507"][quote comment="370441"][quote comment="370439"]Seeing Ethan was a real “Oh crap” moment. I guess he’s a good guy now, but he still comes across as ultracreepy.[/quote]

    ANd his last name was Goodspeed. Strange.[/quote]
    Why was this strange? He was born to Horace and Amy GOODSPEED so hi slast name shoul dhave been that.[/quote]

    I agree, but some people found it strange because he had previously been introduced to us as “Ethan Rom”.[/quote]
    True, but they made it clear in the episode where it showed his birth that he was that Ethan. No big mystery there at least in my mind.

  120. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370525"]How did Smokey infect Sayid? First thought…when Jacob died, the water went from white (clear) to black (dirty). The water is now MIB’s instead of Jacob’s.[/quote]
    I perceived it to be more metaphorical. Indicating to the temple folks that something was not right, Jacob’s dead, not necessarily that MIB now controlled the water. I also believe that Jacob wanted to die or knew that he needed to die. His body sure did burn up superfast with no signs left over of him being in the fire pit which I found intriguing.

  121. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370525"]How did Smokey infect Sayid? First thought…when Jacob died, the water went from white (clear) to black (dirty). The water is now MIB’s instead of Jacob’s.[/quote]

    **************
    I like that idea!

  122. Miss lost says:

    Not sure if Aaron will play any significance this season, but I think it is interesting that Clarie was told that only she could raise her baby. And then later we see Claire in Kate’s “dream” telling her NOT to bring him back to the island…could that have been MIB implanting that seed because Aaron is somehow important and that is why Ethan tried to get Claire while pregnant with Claire?

    Also, on Ethan, it was interesting that he was the doc at the hospital.
    I went back to the evacuation of the Dharma woman and children in 1977…maybe he and Amy were evacuated?

  123. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370530"][quote comment="370522"]I could be wrong, but it looks like the date on the ultrasound is 10/22/2004…this flight was a month later???[/quote]

    Yep. Which means that Locke had more than enough time to go on his walk-about.

    My “prediction”: we’ll see that the island sank sometime b/w the original flight date and this new flight date.[/quote]
    Could the ultrasound date be the child’s DUE DATE. Ethan told Claire that she was 36 weeks pregnant. A full term pregnancy is 40 weeks which would cause Aaron’s due date to be in October if it was the original flight date. Just a thought.

  124. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="370522"]I could be wrong, but it looks like the date on the ultrasound is 10/22/2004…this flight was a month later???[/quote]
    I was wondering about this after LA X. At no time during that episode did they say it was flight 815. Possible it’s a different flight number and “The Numbers” are different in this timeline, allowing Hurley to be lucky instead of cursed?

  125. Hurley's Dad says:

    As for Christian possessed/claimed/infected by whoever…. I’m of the belief he has been both Jacob and MIB.

    Sometimes he was shown in the suit with white tennis shoes.

    Sometimes he was shown with a plaid shirt, khakis and hiking boots.

    I believe this is a distinction worth noting.

  126. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370536"][quote comment="370530"][quote comment="370522"]I could be wrong, but it looks like the date on the ultrasound is 10/22/2004…this flight was a month later???[/quote]

    Yep. Which means that Locke had more than enough time to go on his walk-about.

    My “prediction”: we’ll see that the island sank sometime b/w the original flight date and this new flight date.[/quote]
    Could the ultrasound date be the child’s DUE DATE. Ethan told Claire that she was 36 weeks pregnant. A full term pregnancy is 40 weeks which would cause Aaron’s due date to be in October if it was the original flight date. Just a thought.[/quote]

    Yeah, but Aaron was born on November 1st, so it fits that Claire would be about 36 weeks along on October 22nd. If it was September 22nd, she would have been two weeks overdue when she gave birth on the island, and I assume that would have caused a lot of problems.

    By the way, Aaron’s birthdate falls on All Saints Day. Just noticed that.

  127. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370539"]
    Yeah, but Aaron was born on November 1st, so it fits that Claire would be about 36 weeks along on October 22nd. If it was September 22nd, she would have been two weeks overdue when she gave birth on the island, and I assume that would have caused a lot of problems.[/quote]

    Not following your logic there, Miraks.

    Aaron was born on 11/1/2004 in Season one. If Claire were “8 months pregnant” while on O815 (9/22/2004), then her due date would have been about a month later, or October 22, 2004. Aaron would have been born a week or so late which is perfectly normal.

    So Claire would have been 36 weeks on SEPTEMBER 22 and NOT on October 22.

    Ultrasounds often do show the EDC (expected date of confinement), but they would ALWAYS show the date they were taken, so I am confused about it, especially because D&C will KNOW that we are all going to take screenshots and analyze them! My expectation is that we are supposed to be confused at this point.

    : ) P

  128. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    claire said she was 7 months preg. on the flight.

    i have asked every mother i know, and they said they’ve NEVER seen the due date on the ultrasound.

    this whole date thing is really bugging me! :-(

  129. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370541"]claire said she was 7 months preg. on the flight.

    i have asked every mother i know, and they said they’ve NEVER seen the due date on the ultrasound.

    this whole date thing is really bugging me! :-([/quote]
    ******
    PJ is right…it is not listed as DOB or due date…
    some of my ultrasounds list the EDC…when you thought conception was. All have had the date the ultrasound was taken.
    some have listed the estimated date of the baby in weeks, ie, 19w6D(plus or minus)

    I would guess if there is a date on the pic it is the date the ultrasound was taken!

  130. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370540"][quote comment="370539"]
    Yeah, but Aaron was born on November 1st, so it fits that Claire would be about 36 weeks along on October 22nd. If it was September 22nd, she would have been two weeks overdue when she gave birth on the island, and I assume that would have caused a lot of problems.[/quote]

    Not following your logic there, Miraks.

    Aaron was born on 11/1/2004 in Season one. If Claire were “8 months pregnant” while on O815 (9/22/2004), then her due date would have been about a month later, or October 22, 2004. Aaron would have been born a week or so late which is perfectly normal.

    So Claire would have been 36 weeks on SEPTEMBER 22 and NOT on October 22.

    Ultrasounds often do show the EDC (expected date of confinement), but they would ALWAYS show the date they were taken, so I am confused about it, especially because D&C will KNOW that we are all going to take screenshots and analyze them! My expectation is that we are supposed to be confused at this point.

    : ) P[/quote]

    What i meant is that if the ultra sound is taken on Sept. 22, and Claire is 36 wks. pregnant, then she will have Aaron at 42 weeks, which while at the upper limit of the normal range, would have worried Jack on the island, because past-due babies tend to be bigger and harder to deliver.

    If however she is 36 wks. on Oct. 22, then Aaron is born at 38 wks., which would make more sense given that she had experienced early labor in both time-lines.

  131. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370541"]claire said she was 7 months preg. on the flight.

    i have asked every mother i know, and they said they’ve NEVER seen the due date on the ultrasound.

    this whole date thing is really bugging me! :-([/quote]

    I don’t know about all ultrasounds but the one on my fridge from just a couple of months ago has a due date. It also has the date it was taken. I am guessing the most important date would be when it was taken and maybe not all have a due date.

  132. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370542"]
    PJ is right…it is not listed as DOB or due date…
    some of my ultrasounds list the EDC…when you thought conception was. All have had the date the ultrasound was taken.
    some have listed the estimated date of the baby in weeks, ie, 19w6D(plus or minus)

    I would guess if there is a date on the pic it is the date the ultrasound was taken![/quote]

    EDC *is* the due date. It stands for Estimated Date of Confinement – a very old fashioned term for due date.

    I can’t speak for every ultrasound, of course, but at the hospital I worked at, the EDC *was* listed on the ultrasound, and often ADJUSTED based on the results of the ultrasound.

    : ) P

  133. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370543"][quote comment="370540"][quote comment="370539"]
    Yeah, but Aaron was born on November 1st, so it fits that Claire would be about 36 weeks along on October 22nd. If it was September 22nd, she would have been two weeks overdue when she gave birth on the island, and I assume that would have caused a lot of problems.[/quote]

    Not following your logic there, Miraks.

    Aaron was born on 11/1/2004 in Season one. If Claire were “8 months pregnant” while on O815 (9/22/2004), then her due date would have been about a month later, or October 22, 2004. Aaron would have been born a week or so late which is perfectly normal.

    So Claire would have been 36 weeks on SEPTEMBER 22 and NOT on October 22.

    Ultrasounds often do show the EDC (expected date of confinement), but they would ALWAYS show the date they were taken, so I am confused about it, especially because D&C will KNOW that we are all going to take screenshots and analyze them! My expectation is that we are supposed to be confused at this point.

    : ) P[/quote]

    What i meant is that if the ultra sound is taken on Sept. 22, and Claire is 36 wks. pregnant, then she will have Aaron at 42 weeks, which while at the upper limit of the normal range, would have worried Jack on the island, because past-due babies tend to be bigger and harder to deliver.

    If however she is 36 wks. on Oct. 22, then Aaron is born at 38 wks., which would make more sense given that she had experienced early labor in both time-lines.[/quote]

    Jack would not have known she was two weeks late. It is only an estimated date. Nobody knows for sure when a woman will naturally go in labor. Did she experience early labor on the island? Was it confirmed?

  134. Miraks says:

    Another thing, flight O815 on Sept. 22, was scheduled to land at 10:42am. In the ultra sound picture the time says 9:29:42 am. This seems to further point to this new time-line flight being different.

  135. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370545"][quote comment="370542"]
    PJ is right…it is not listed as DOB or due date…
    some of my ultrasounds list the EDC…when you thought conception was. All have had the date the ultrasound was taken.
    some have listed the estimated date of the baby in weeks, ie, 19w6D(plus or minus)

    I would guess if there is a date on the pic it is the date the ultrasound was taken![/quote]

    EDC *is* the due date. It stands for Estimated Date of Confinement – a very old fashioned term for due date.

    I can’t speak for every ultrasound, of course, but at the hospital I worked at, the EDC *was* listed on the ultrasound, and often ADJUSTED based on the results of the ultrasound.

    : ) P[/quote]

    EDC is the estimated date of conception. It is adjusted depending on the fetuses growth (#wks#ds.)

  136. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="370476"][quote comment="370474"]
    Jin’s is to find Sun, Kate and Sawyer is to discover that Locke is Flocke?[/quote]

    Jin’s mission is to find Sun, yes. But in the overall arc of the story, there may be more to it. Like when the hatch stories were unfolding, there was always a reason that X & Y were off in the jungle at given times.

    My guess is that Sawyer or Kate (or both) will find Sun before Jin does. They need a really good build up to their reunion – the kind like we had with Desmond and Penny.

    Speaking of whom… are their stories over I wonder?

    : ) P[/quote]
    ********************************************

    Dogan told Sawyer he “had” to stay. Maybe it has to do with all the people that Jacob touched off island, they need to be at the temple. Jin needs to go and get Sun and Kate needs to bring Sawyer back.

    On another note…All of this talk of people possesing bodies has me thinking that maybe this is what Illana meant when she said Frank was a candidate. Is he to be used in some way down the road?

  137. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370545"][quote comment="370542"]
    PJ is right…it is not listed as DOB or due date…
    some of my ultrasounds list the EDC…when you thought conception was. All have had the date the ultrasound was taken.
    some have listed the estimated date of the baby in weeks, ie, 19w6D(plus or minus)

    I would guess if there is a date on the pic it is the date the ultrasound was taken![/quote]

    EDC *is* the due date. It stands for Estimated Date of Confinement – a very old fashioned term for due date.

    I can’t speak for every ultrasound, of course, but at the hospital I worked at, the EDC *was* listed on the ultrasound, and often ADJUSTED based on the results of the ultrasound.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ******

    Not trying to confuse and didn’t mean conception…
    Have had 4 kids and all their ultrasounds had the date the ultrasound was taken and then either an EDC date or in place of that they would have the estimated age of baby based on length and weight, and it would say 32W3D (thirty two weeks, 3 days).

    My EDC dates did not give a year-just a month and day…
    that is why I thought the date they were seeing was probably the date of the ultrasound.

    Tasha, my youngest is 7 so the ultrasounds probably look a bit different now…does it say due date or EDC (which in the long run are both only estimates as we all know they come when they want to ;) )

  138. Tasha says:

    [quote comment="370541"]

    Tasha, my youngest is 7 so the ultrasounds probably look a bit different now…does it say due date or EDC (which in the long run are both only estimates as we all know they come when they want to ;) )[/quote]

    It doesn’t say anything. It just has the date with nothing before it. I just know that is what my EDC was but it doesn’t write that out. It also has the date of the untrasound and time, although the time it has is wrong. I am guessing they didn’t have the machine programmed for this time zone or anything.

    I looked at the ultrasound for my 5 year old but no EDC date and I don’t know where my 9 years old’s is. The five year old’s does NOT have any date besides the date of ultrasound. Another thing is I was having complications with these last ulltrasounds that I did not have with my other kids so maybe that’s why they put the date in. No idea but I think they threw this in there for everyone to go crazy trying to figure out LOL.

    I am going to go with the camp that this is the “new” confirmed date.

  139. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370548"]EDC is the estimated date of conception. It is adjusted depending on the fetuses growth (#wks#ds.)[/quote]

    Maybe at the hospital YOU worked at, EDC was about conception, but medically speaking, EDC stands for Estimated Date of Confinement.

    Generally speaking, pregnancy is not calculated by date of conception, but rather by LMP, or Last Menstrual Period.

    From StorkNet: Your doctor may refer to your due date as the “EDC” which stands for estimated date of confinement (a very OLD term!) or “EDD,” estimated due date. This is where due date calculation gets messy. There are so many terms thrown around . . . gestational age, calendar age, fetal age, menstrual age, lunar month, 9 months, 10 months, 40 weeks, LMP. It boggles the mind how they make something so difficult over a little word like when. Here’s the scoop . . . most care providers will calculate your due date based on the first day of your last menstrual period (LMP). Your baby was conceived around 14 days after the first day of your LMP. This means that when you actually conceived, the timer had already started ticking, and you were about two weeks pregnant the day you conceived. Full term is 40 weeks – that’s 40 weeks after the first day of your last menstrual period or 280 days after LMP or 38 weeks since conception or 266 days since conception. All of those time frames do add up to the same due date, believe it or not! Forty weeks is 10 lunar months, a lunar month being four 7 day weeks. Of course, all of this calculation is based on the fact that women are SUPPOSED to have 28 day menstrual cycles.

    Of course, all of this is hardly relevant because D&C are probably trying to confuse us anyway.

    : ) P

  140. Hammer says:

    IF the Oceanic flight 815(?) landed 10-22 instead of 9-22, then it simply further shows that changing the past changes detail but not the big picture. Jacob was the reason they all got on flight 815 that was supposed to land on 9-22. WHH and course correction gets them together on a different flight to make sure their lives intersect and the new circumstances will get them back on the island in another way.

  141. Laura says:

    [quote comment="370515"]I did think that Sayid’s behavior after he woke up was “off”. The whole thing with him crying “why are you doing this to me?”, and complaining about being tortured (a nice parallel to his previous life though it was), just did not sit well with me. I can’t imagine the “real” Sayid acting that way.[/quote]

    You are so correct. Our old Sayid would NEVER admit to pain or whine (in my opinion).

  142. Poppagopolis says:

    My first thought is that the new flight there on has to be a part of a new time line for a few reasons:

    1) Jack’s hair is much longer than it was when they first crashed in season one

    2) Hurley was certainly not famous for being the owner of that chicken chain

    3)Desmond is on the plane

    4) Ethan is a doctor on mainland

    When the gang blew up the island in 1977 it made a huge ripple effect in the rest of time. Certainly this ripple effect could explain why the flight is a month later/earlier. A lot can happen in 25-30 years.

    I’m just anxious to find out about what other intersections there will be in this new reality.

  143. jck says:

    [quote comment="370554"][quote comment="370515"]I did think that Sayid’s behavior after he woke up was “off”. The whole thing with him crying “why are you doing this to me?”, and complaining about being tortured (a nice parallel to his previous life though it was), just did not sit well with me. I can’t imagine the “real” Sayid acting that way.[/quote]

    You are so correct. Our old Sayid would NEVER admit to pain or whine (in my opinion).[/quote]
    I agree, in principle, that Sayid was acting a bit strangely, but he WAS sort of pleading with Danielle when she tortured him (by electrocution, no less) in season 1.

  144. Hurley's Dad says:

    How do we KNOW it is 2007 on the island?

    When Ajira 316 “came back” a flash of light happened and some people went to 1977, others crashed with the plane on the island. From my recollection, we assumed that that crash happened in the same timeline that the plane took off, namely 2007.

    We also know Richard/Frank/Sun saw the flare go off, so they are now in the same timeline as Jack/Sawyer/Kate etc.

    BUT….

    What if that flash also moved the plane and the non-1977 jumpers to a different spot on the timeline?

    Which leads to the Jughead detonation moving the 77’ers forward to put everybody together again.

    Here’s why I think what I think:

    When Aldo and Justin are walking in the jungle with Jin/Kate, this conversation happens.

    JIN: Do you know anything about another plane coming in? An Ajira flight.
    ALDO: I’m sorry, is this a press conference?
    JUSTIN: I think he means the one that landed in….
    ALDO: JUSTIN! Shut up.

    Then, Kate almost steps on a wire trigger and is stopped by Justin, which leads to this.

    JUSTIN: Watch it
    KATE: Thank you
    JIN: Looks like one of Rousseau’s traps
    JUSTIN: The French woman? She’s been dead for years…this…this couldn’t be one of her….
    ALDO: JUSTIN! Shut up.

    I will also add Ilana’s comment from the S5 finale about “he hasn’t been here in a long time” (referring to Jacob and the cabin). Who knows…..maybe they are now in 2010 or the year 2525 (on island).

    Please, trying to rack my brain to verify a specific plot point that proves the island time is 2007 so tell me if I missed something obvious.

  145. Poppagopolis says:

    I know this is a bit off of the new episode, but it kind of relates. Let’s think about that Russian guy with the eye-patch…Vladimir. I saw his head get blown off and when he walked through the dharma fence/ force field and in the underwater dharma station when he was shot in the chest by Desmond. He came back still to get blown up by a grenade in order to try and drown Desmond and Charlie. I think he has been the best example of manifestation thus far. How come nobody is talking about the Russian eye-patch guy? He certainly did enought to change the course of events for Charlie

  146. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="370558"]I know this is a bit off of the new episode, but it kind of relates. Let’s think about that Russian guy with the eye-patch…Vladimir. I saw his head get blown off and when he walked through the dharma fence/ force field and in the underwater dharma station when he was shot in the chest by Desmond. He came back still to get blown up by a grenade in order to try and drown Desmond and Charlie. I think he has been the best example of manifestation thus far. How come nobody is talking about the Russian eye-patch guy? He certainly did enought to change the course of events for Charlie[/quote]
    His name was Mikhail
    His head didn’t get blown off by the fence.
    He told Ben he survived because “the pylons were not set to a lethal level”.

    Personally, I don’t think he actually died until the grenade blew him up.

  147. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="370559"][quote comment="370558"]I know this is a bit off of the new episode, but it kind of relates. Let’s think about that Russian guy with the eye-patch…Vladimir. I saw his head get blown off and when he walked through the dharma fence/ force field and in the underwater dharma station when he was shot in the chest by Desmond. He came back still to get blown up by a grenade in order to try and drown Desmond and Charlie. I think he has been the best example of manifestation thus far. How come nobody is talking about the Russian eye-patch guy? He certainly did enought to change the course of events for Charlie[/quote]
    His name was Mikhail
    His head didn’t get blown off by the fence.
    He told Ben he survived because “the pylons were not set to a lethal level”.

    Personally, I don’t think he actually died until the grenade blew him up.[/quote]

    almost forgot
    Bonnie wanted to get the spear gun for Charlie because she “wanted it to hurt”. NOT KILL!!!
    Shooting Mikhail with the spear gun would do the same.

  148. Poppagopolis says:

    [quote comment="370559"][quote comment="370558"]I know this is a bit off of the new episode, but it kind of relates. Let’s think about that Russian guy with the eye-patch…Vladimir. I saw his head get blown off and when he walked through the dharma fence/ force field and in the underwater dharma station when he was shot in the chest by Desmond. He came back still to get blown up by a grenade in order to try and drown Desmond and Charlie. I think he has been the best example of manifestation thus far. How come nobody is talking about the Russian eye-patch guy? He certainly did enought to change the course of events for Charlie[/quote]
    His name was Mikhail
    His head didn’t get blown off by the fence.
    He told Ben he survived because “the pylons were not set to a lethal level”.

    Personally, I don’t think he actually died until the grenade blew him up.[/quote]

    But didn’t it show in the episode his head blowing completely off of his head; like JFK style?

  149. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    we know it’s 2007 because when they showed the dharma stuff as 1977, the screen said “30 years later” when it showed the ajira stuff.
    and we know that the temple action is in 2007 because the ajira folks at the foot saw the rocket/signals that were fired by the temple folks.

    question: was there (hypothetically) ash surrounding the pit of dharma bodies? why/why not.

    also, i wonder why lapidus was not able to fly the OTHER 815 this time EITHER.

  150. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment="370561"][quote comment="370559"][quote comment="370558"]I know this is a bit off of the new episode, but it kind of relates. Let’s think about that Russian guy with the eye-patch…Vladimir. I saw his head get blown off and when he walked through the dharma fence/ force field and in the underwater dharma station when he was shot in the chest by Desmond. He came back still to get blown up by a grenade in order to try and drown Desmond and Charlie. I think he has been the best example of manifestation thus far. How come nobody is talking about the Russian eye-patch guy? He certainly did enought to change the course of events for Charlie[/quote]
    His name was Mikhail
    His head didn’t get blown off by the fence.
    He told Ben he survived because “the pylons were not set to a lethal level”.

    Personally, I don’t think he actually died until the grenade blew him up.[/quote]

    But didn’t it show in the episode his head blowing completely off of his head; like JFK style?[/quote]
    Nope….he had blood coming from his ears and foam in the mouth. But his head was fully there.

  151. Hammer says:

    @ DHARMA bodies pit/ashes. The Others likely didn’t fear MIB taking the likeness of any of them. When he does that it is to trick people into doing what he wants. Those folks where enemies and the Others would know not to do what they said. Just a thought.

  152. Hurley's Dad says:

    Thanks Bacon! The 30 year thing makes sense….and now that I think about it again, Rosseau would have died in Januaryish 2005.

    So the reason to include it in the dialog was to show there was someone else doing that on the island now, which was revealed later to be Claire.

    I feel much better now. :) whew

    On to your questions:

    Ash around the DHARMA pit…was it inside of the ash like Jacob’s cabin was?

    Lapidus….thought the exact same thing. Nice to hear they brought in the Heroe’s guy for a voice cameo.

  153. Marco says:

    Any thoughts on what Locke/smokey meant at the end when he came up to Richard and said it’s “good to see you out of those chains” just before he beat the crap out of him?

  154. leslie says:

    [quote comment="370449"]Im sorry where did Sawyer buy a ring on the island?[/quote]

    That is so funny! With all the many unaswered questions THAT hit me too? Not only where did he buy a diamond ring, but where did he get the money? LOL

  155. Miraks says:

    Thinking of some parallels between Losties Time Line 1 and 2.

    LTI 1
    Desmond throws ring in the water.
    LTI 2
    Sawyer throws ring in water.

    LTI 1
    Russou “crazy” woman on island.
    LTI 2
    Claire “crazy” woman on island.

    LTI 1
    Ben gets cought and tortured by Losties, but act innocent “Why are you doing this to me?”
    LTI 2
    Sayid gets cought and tortured by temple folk, but act innocent “Why are you doing this to me?” (is he the bad guy now?)

  156. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    the whole bodies pit thing has me thinking:

    did ben just shoot locke there as a test/to scare him? because we know that at that point in time, the Others were burning their dead and sending them to sea. and i can see why, with smoky hanging around.

    my friends keep asking me why kate was taking her sweet time driving claire around, etc. instead of fleeing the scene. it reminded me a lot of desmond in Flashes Before Your Eyes…mainly because i just watched that one!…but at some point in his london-past, des became aware/curious that he had blacked out and was also able to influence his choices; as if he became aware that he was doing things for a second time. i hope that my wording makes sense. this also goes along with some folks’ ideas that the flash-sideways is really just the LOSTies’ consciousness traveling in time.
    i don’t really WANT to believe that, but i can certainly see it as a possibility.

  157. DocH says:

    EDC – Exact Date of Confusion.

    Which was last night, 9 Feb 09.
    – – – –
    PJ is right on the ‘EDC = due date’ citation.

    But not much reason for Claire to have an ultrasound after the flight – she would have to have an ultrasound to be cleared/allowed onto the flight though. Unless… she had a problem during the long flight – like the infant growing MIB devil horns/tail.

  158. Timbo says:

    I know there is a date on the ultrasound, but it may be there to throw you. Ethan did not have time to enter any info into the ultrasound machine. The heart beat dissappeared and in an emergency he grabbed the ultrasound and used it.

  159. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    yeah; the ultrasound just says ” D: 10/22/04″
    it purposely doesn’t say which kind of date.
    was anyone else hoping to see a lil smoke monster in the ultrasound? :-D

  160. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370569"]EDC – Exact Date of Confusion.

    Which was last night, 9 Feb 09.
    – – – –
    PJ is right on the ‘EDC = due date’ citation.

    But not much reason for Claire to have an ultrasound after the flight – she would have to have an ultrasound to be cleared/allowed onto the flight though. Unless… she had a problem during the long flight – like the infant growing MIB devil horns/tail.[/quote]
    ***********
    funny!

  161. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370571"]yeah; the ultrasound just says ” D: 10/22/04″
    it purposely doesn’t say which kind of date.
    was anyone else hoping to see a lil smoke monster in the ultrasound? :-D[/quote]
    **********
    rewatched that too! Funny it just says D. Again, I would think that is the days date as most machines anymore keep the current time and date…it does not need to be manually input.
    So I am sticking to it being the date it is being taken. Keep in mind, Claire DID NOT have her baby in this episode…and she said she was not ready and they discussed giving her meds to try to stop the contractions.
    She is still a month away (or 4 weeks) from her due date so chances are she could have the baby later.

  162. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="370556"][quote comment="370554"][quote comment="370515"]I did think that Sayid’s behavior after he woke up was “off”. The whole thing with him crying “why are you doing this to me?”, and complaining about being tortured (a nice parallel to his previous life though it was), just did not sit well with me. I can’t imagine the “real” Sayid acting that way.[/quote]

    You are so correct. Our old Sayid would NEVER admit to pain or whine (in my opinion).[/quote]
    I agree, in principle, that Sayid was acting a bit strangely, but he WAS sort of pleading with Danielle when she tortured him (by electrocution, no less) in season 1.[/quote]
    ******
    He is definitely not acting the same. And I think Miles knows something.
    He has been “infected” or “claimed” by MIB?
    Can the poison re-claim your soul by driving that infection out? Or will it kill Sayid.
    So many questions…

  163. leslie says:

    [quote comment="370513"]My feelings towards this whole infecting someone else’s body is the following:

    My explanation towards thinking that Charlie has “infected” Sayid’s body is that because at the end of episode 2 the way he said, “what happened?” sounded strangely like Charlie

    I didn’t think “Charlie” at that time, but what I THOUGHT I noticed was Sayid speaking a lot more British than usual?

  164. DocH says:

    [quote comment="370574"]Rewatched that too! Funny it just says D. Again, I would think that is the days date as most machines anymore keep the current time and date… [/quote]

    Plus the timestamp (09:29:42 AM) is right above it. Does it make sense to declare the exact second the child is expected to be born? Or does it make more sense for a timestamp to have a date associated with it? You know — so the next medico that looks at it doesn’t say – “Great. 9:29 AM. What frikin’ day?”

    Plus 815 was scheduled to land at 10:42 AM. So??? What? Claire got carjacked in the taxi, dumped by Kate, Kate got her cuffs off, then recovered Claire, they went the 5 miles to Brentwood and rejected by adopt-a-mom, then to Angel Mercy hospital, admitted, disrobed and sonogram’d at 9:29 AM???

    They’d have to be Marines. “We do more before 8 AM than most people do all day!” and have landed about 7 hours early. Or have been on a different flight. OR went for the ultrasound on a day after the flight Kate was on.

  165. Hurley's Dad says:

    Next thought

    According to Dogan, Sayid is being infected after dying, which is what happened to Jack’s sister.

    When did this happen to Claire? Was it when the Freighter folk blew up the house she was in?

  166. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="370472"][quote comment="370469"]So Claire is like a Zombie with a gun now? I wonder if she remembers Aaron. Next week she will be running around talking about someone took her baby in the middle of the night.[/quote]

    As long as she doesn’t talk about dingoes, I’m okay with that! *g*

    There has to be a story-arc purpose to Kate, Sawyer and Jin being outside the temple. I guess Jin’s is to discover “Claire” but I am hard-pressed to figure out why Kate and Sawyer are out.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Jin’s purpose is also to meet back up with Sun! I wonder if those outside the temple will eventually align with Bad Locke/Smokie?

  167. DocH says:

    A Claire theory is that she was “walking wounded” after her house (and laundry) blew-up at the Barracks, after the RPG attack by the mercenaries. Afterwards, Sawyer & Miles split from Ben, Locke and Hurley, and were taking Claire & Aaron to regroup with those that went to the beach camp. They had to rest for the night, en route. Claire departed during the night and left Aaron for the guys to handle. Theory is that she died as she rested, or wandered-off and died, as a result of her wounding, then was smoke-a-cized enough to re-appear later, with Christian (and last night). That, or she died immediately during the attack, and was rejuvenated on-the-spot.

  168. Sunnybrook says:

    Why do you call him Flocke?

  169. Hurley's Dad says:

    But was she rejuvinated on the spot? I think Sawyer carried her around a while first. Perhaps about the same length of time Sayid was dead.

    Flocke = Fake Locke

  170. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="370460"]Jack and Kate seem like they remember the other losties but everyone else is clueless. I think Kate ans Jack are trying to make things right in the new time line Whats there purpose?[/quote]
    [quote comment="370491"][quote comment="370486"]what was supposed to be the meaning of Ethan off island and as Claire’s doctor? Is that as a result of no island effect?[/quote]

    I think that was just another example of showing the parallels of the two timelines, and how fate or destiny always has a role in affecting the characters’ lives, no matter how hard they try to change things (i.e., course correction).

    Some other parallels in this episode:

    – Circumstances arose that cause Claire to not give the baby up for adoption (and perhaps in a future episode, we’ll see Kate act as caregiver for Aaron?)

    – Kate plays a role in helping the pregnant Claire (just like on the island, she helped deliver the baby)

    – In the hospital scene, there were some fleeting moments where it seemed the unborn baby may have died (just like Claire couldn’t feel the baby kick for the first few days on the island)

    – In the midst of stressing out, Claire suddenly calls the baby “Aaron”

    – And the aforementioned instance of Ethan treating pregnant Claire.

    So the incident/bomb detonation (or not)/time flash may have resulted in two separate timelines, but for whatever reason, these characters lives were meant to intersect.

    Now, having said that, what does it all mean?[/quote]

    I have a theory on the big picture of what is going to happen: I think that the “flash sideways” may be showing what will happen after all the stuff on the island is complete.

    I think that the purpose of the Losties getting called to the island and experiencing all of this is for them to grow and overcome their weaknesses and flaws, and then for them to go back to the real world and live better lives. Sort of a “Wizard of Oz” theme. After their time on the island, Jack becomes a leader and gains courage and faith, John becomes strong, Sawyer cares about others, Jin cherishes his wife and doesn’t care about what others think of him, Hurley doesn’t have a bad luck complex, Claire will raise her baby, Charlie has overcome his addiction and found meaning in life, etc.

    Maybe that is what was meant in the final episode last season when MIB said “it will all end the same” but Jacob talked about “progress” Maybe these guys called them to the island to have these experiences, grow, and then at the end they’ll just merge back into their off-island lives in LA, with a vague, deja-vu like memory of their experiences on the island (as some have demonstrated already), and with their new-found personal characteristics (as some of them have already shown in the “alternative reality”).

    Under this theory, maybe dying on the island doesn’t mean anything — maybe Charlie is still alive in the real world, etc., and maybe dying on the island means that you have already learned all the lessons you needed to.

    If this is true, I expect Sawyer to find Julia in the real world, Sun and Jin to live happily ever after, for Jack and Kate to get together, for Hurley to become a successful leader, and for Claire to meet Charlie and them raise Aaron together.

    Not a perfect theory, but I struggle to think of how the two time-lines relate, and this is the only thing I could think of.

  171. Mal says:

    A few thoughts:

    Sayid may be “infected”, but I don’t think his body has been taken over… I think “infection” points to some sort of dark mind-will controlling power, that can travel quickly and take over the body… but NOT actually be the spirit of MIB. Infliction vs. possession.

    The bodies in the Dharma pit – maybe MIB WAS in fact able to resemble them (as they were not buried)… so for a good three months, he was appearing all over the island, which spurred a mass disease of sorts…. which caused the DI to go crazy with their quarantines and vaccinations, as well as the Others… maybe the bodies possessed via MIB had the ability to spread the infection… Then of course, once the bodies started to decompose, MIB lost the ability to take their form, which is why this is no longer an issue.

    The engagement ring – Maybe the temple is really an establishment wherein the most beautiful jewelry is crafted by weilding the mystical powers of the fountain. Master Jeweler Dogan!! =) Either that, or the Dharma folks had the option of sending out for special orders when the sub came back and forth.

    I’d be “different” too if I woke up after having just died.

    Definitely liked the idea that Claire set those booby traps… at first I thought there was no connection to Rousseau’s craziness and that of new Claire… but now I am second guessing myself, because those traps most deinitely belong to Claire.

    Speaking of Danielle.. I wonder if we’ll see her in 2004. I also wonder if she will be married and mother to Alex… and I wonder if she will still look like David Bowie.

    Wonder if we’ll see Ben in 2004!! What will that be like? What will Ben be doing with his life?

    I hope we see Juliet at the hospital were Claire is being treated… I bet she and Ethan are colleagues.

  172. KatieB says:

    What I’m confused about is: WHEN did Sayid get infected? Before he was brought into the temple? Because I was thinking that the temple was a protective area for the Others, and that they are trying to keep MIB/Smokey out (the ash, etc.). I don’t see how the dark water could mean MIB controls it: that would mean he’d have to be inside the temple with them, right? Or am I just so totally off-base here that I’m embarassing myself and I don’t even know it?
    My head hurts. As you can tell, I’m an amateur at this, but this show just drives me crazy. It’s like a bad car wreck: I don’t WANT to watch, but I just can’t help it!!

  173. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370547"]Another thing, flight O815 on Sept. 22, was scheduled to land at 10:42am. In the ultra sound picture the time says 9:29:42 am. This seems to further point to this new time-line flight being different.[/quote]
    It does nothing of the kind. With a good tail wind maybe the flight landed early. Everything is not a conspiracy theory.

  174. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370553"]IF the Oceanic flight 815(?) landed 10-22 instead of 9-22, then it simply further shows that changing the past changes detail but not the big picture. Jacob was the reason they all got on flight 815 that was supposed to land on 9-22. WHH and course correction gets them together on a different flight to make sure their lives intersect and the new circumstances will get them back on the island in another way.[/quote]
    JAcob was not the reason that any of them got on flight 815. What are you basis for saying that?

  175. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370557"]How do we KNOW it is 2007 on the island?

    When Ajira 316 “came back” a flash of light happened and some people went to 1977, others crashed with the plane on the island. From my recollection, we assumed that that crash happened in the same timeline that the plane took off, namely 2007.

    We also know Richard/Frank/Sun saw the flare go off, so they are now in the same timeline as Jack/Sawyer/Kate etc.

    BUT….

    What if that flash also moved the plane and the non-1977 jumpers to a different spot on the timeline?

    Which leads to the Jughead detonation moving the 77’ers forward to put everybody together again.

    Here’s why I think what I think:

    When Aldo and Justin are walking in the jungle with Jin/Kate, this conversation happens.

    JIN: Do you know anything about another plane coming in? An Ajira flight.
    ALDO: I’m sorry, is this a press conference?
    JUSTIN: I think he means the one that landed in….
    ALDO: JUSTIN! Shut up.

    Then, Kate almost steps on a wire trigger and is stopped by Justin, which leads to this.

    JUSTIN: Watch it
    KATE: Thank you
    JIN: Looks like one of Rousseau’s traps
    JUSTIN: The French woman? She’s been dead for years…this…this couldn’t be one of her….
    ALDO: JUSTIN! Shut up.

    I will also add Ilana’s comment from the S5 finale about “he hasn’t been here in a long time” (referring to Jacob and the cabin). Who knows…..maybe they are now in 2010 or the year 2525 (on island).

    Please, trying to rack my brain to verify a specific plot point that proves the island time is 2007 so tell me if I missed something obvious.[/quote]
    From what we saw the french lady was killed in 2004. Which would explain his comments about her being dead for years.

  176. RGS says:

    I definitely have issues with Smokey infecting the French team at the Temple way back when. I mean they’re against the Smoke Monster but he’s set up camp all in their mix. I don’t think we’ll get an answer for that.

    I don’t think we’ll get a definitive answer as to how the water got infected, or lost its healing power. Again that seems to be a weak link in their temple fortress.

    I’d like to know what makes an other follow Jacob and exactly does it mean to be an Other?
    You have some that appear rebellious (Justin, folks Sawyer shot rescuing Horace’s wife) so what would make them feel like they must follow Jacob or Dogen?

    When Richard takes young Ben he tells them, “he’ll never be the same, he’ll lose his innocence, he’ll always be one of us.” As if something transformative will occur, and it will have an effect on his mind. Lose his innocence? That seems highly negative.

    They put Sayid in water that is not normally dark. Was Sayid supposed to lose his innocence? What were the Others expecting? Do they think he’s infected because of the dark water, or that is something they always check for?

    IF Claire is NOT infected, they’re going to have to ‘splainin’ to do, because she was hanging with (presumably) Smokey in the Christian Suit in the cabin.

    The whole cabin situation is confusing to me. Illana and co. approached it cautiously as if they were expecting Smokey to be in there. So the ash presumably would have been to keep him in. However we saw Smokey doing his thing as far back as Season 1 out in the jungle, so the ash must’ve been to keep Smokey out. But guess what, I don’t think we’ll get an answer for that.

    If she IS infected, since so much time has passed, it would’ve presumably gotten to her heart, and thus should make her act similar to the French team. This would mean she’d want or try to kill Jin & Kate? The only possible explanation as to why she may not be infected is because she gave birth to a child on the island. That’s another similarity to Danielle. Anything other than that is problematic.

    Sorry for the long post, trying to work out some frustrations.

  177. RGS says:

    Also why do they even question that the pill is not something Sayid should take? I mean the water brought him back from an apparent death, and definitely healed his wound.

  178. slugdoc says:

    Someone said maybe you die (on the island) after you finish what you came for. (And then, presumably you are allowed to return to your real life).

    Maybe so.

    Boone has the whole reconcilliation / closure with his half-sister, then dies.

    Eko comes to terms with his past, then dies.

    Charlie stops being a selfish git, then dies.

    Michael is prevented from dying over and over, until he does his job then dies.
    Etc.

    I don’t know what job Frogurt and Doc Arzt had. They just seemed like a-holes, then died.

    Is this all too obvious?

  179. Juna D says:

    So Claire is infected. Was Russo? She kind of snapped out of it in the end right? Couldn’t Sayid snap out of it too? Infected seems better than dead, in my opinion.

  180. Bobola says:

    For me this was one of the worst episodes ever;
    Jack is back to his rock head macho ways.
    What sane person starts fighting with a bunch of armed Others with his bare hands? Is he trying to give them a reason to shoot them all?

    And the dialogue with the Japanese guy;
    “What’s that?
    A Baseball.”
    later;
    “What is it?
    Tea.”
    Why didn’t JAck ask; where’s the Sushi?
    Duh. WTF? Are the writers on strike again?
    Whew…a thrill a minute.
    And the show is seriously lacking a sense of humor.

    Jack; And now I’m gonna be a complete idiot and take a pill that might kill me because….well, for no reason. Except the show needs more false drama.
    It’s like the writers just checked out of the LOST Hotel.

    And Claire the Airhead;
    She’s preggers, get’s Jacked and robbed…and she doesn’t call the Police? Just waits around the streets for…Freckles to reappear. That stuffed tou has more sense.
    The Hospitals Staff doesn’t notice a big gun sticking in the pants covered by a thin blouse? Right.
    Then later she gives up her credit card??? WTF City.
    And she can’t find an adoption family on her own Continent?
    A better conclusion to the front door scene would be Freckles whipping out the gun on the crying bitch and say…empty the wallet and jewelry box you stupid cow…for leaving my Preggo friend in the lurch. I’ll give you something to cry about “Miss Can’t make a Goddamn Phone call”!

    And even though the Others insist that everyone must be brought back to the compound…NO ONE asks why…and Freckles doesn’t even bother to remind Jin when he wants to split…or tell this possible vital info to Sawyer.

    The Show is getting way dumb and I’m on the verge of stepping off…
    I could write better scripts in my sleep.

    The only scene I liked was when Aldo got clobbered.

    I see Claire got a makeover on the Island…did she dig into a stash of Charlie’s? Her head looks like she got licked all over by a Polar Bear.

  181. Donald says:

    Suggest googling “Dogen being time”. Read some translations of the 12th century Zen Master Dogen, whose principle philosophical explication was time. From the translation in Philip Kapleau’s Three Pillars of Zen:
    “You must recognize that every thing, every being in the entire world, is time. No object obstructs another, just as not time obstructs another…..As there is no other time than this, every being-time is the whole of time: one blade of grass, every single object is time. Each point of time includes every being and every world….You may think that that mountain and that river are things of the past, that I have left them behind and am now lving in the is palatial building–they are as separate from me as heaven is from earth.
    However the truth has another side. When I climbed the mountain and crossed the river, I was (time). ….When time is not regarded as a phenomemon which ebbs and flows, the time I climbed the mountain is the present moment of being-time. …Do not regard time as merely flying away; do not think that flying away is its sole function. …In a word, every being in the entire world is a separte time in one continuum. And since being is time, I am my being-time. Time has the quality of passing, so to speak, from today to tomorrow, from today to yesterday, from yesterday to today, from today to today, from tomorrow to tomorrow. Becasue this passing is a characteristic of time, present time and past time do not overlap or impinge upon one another….”

    And that was 12th century……!!

  182. DocH says:

    [quote comment="370594"]…[/quote]

    Well said, sir. (seriously) Well said.

    I thought you could/would have gone even a bit further. I admire your restraint.

  183. Skeet says:

    I’ll have to agree with a couple of posters and call this one of the weakest episodes ever. I’ve seen every single episode and this one left me shaking my head.

    a) Jack takes the pill to Sayid without asking what the infection is?? Even after his “suicide” attempt, he never insists on knowing what the infection is.

    b) The Others know every nook and cranny of the island, but they agree to let Kate lead them??

    c) A gun-wielding, handcuffed woman hijacks Claire’s taxi and runs off with her purse — and she never calls the police?? Plus the fact Kate just happens to go looking for her and finds her sitting on a bench beside the road. Give me a break!

    d) Kate is driving all over town in a stolen taxi and the police, who should have been on full alert, never stop her??

    I know the “big” questions will eventually be answered; but one would think the writers would come up with a more believable storyline for the final season than the one proffered in this amateurish episode.

  184. LostJunkie says:

    Like I said much earlier in this comment section, this episode was not good at all and at least it’s refreshing that a lot of people seem to be saying the same thing. I, too, have seen every episode of the entire series and the writing in this one was terrible. I’m not going to go over the points again as to why, but the most irritating thing for me is the ridiculousness of how nobody asks questions about what crazy sh*t is going on.

  185. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370587"][quote comment="370553"]IF the Oceanic flight 815(?) landed 10-22 instead of 9-22, then it simply further shows that changing the past changes detail but not the big picture. Jacob was the reason they all got on flight 815 that was supposed to land on 9-22. WHH and course correction gets them together on a different flight to make sure their lives intersect and the new circumstances will get them back on the island in another way.[/quote]
    JAcob was not the reason that any of them got on flight 815. What are you basis for saying that?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    I was talking about the original 815 flight. You didn’t see Jacob ‘touch’ the main characters that all ended up on 815 that ended up crashing on the island and THEY survived? THAT is what my basis is.

  186. Hammer says:

    Answers in the first 3 episodes:

    What is the ‘sickness’ Danielle spoke about.
    What’s in the temple.
    Why Ben was taken to the temple by Richard.
    Hugo definitely sees/talk to dead people (not in his head)
    Who MIB is.
    Who ‘controls’ smokey.
    Where Cindy, Zach and Emma went.
    What is in the guitar case.
    What happened to Claire.
    Why smokey told Ben to listen to ‘Locke’.

    More?

    They still have to tell the rest of the story while answering mysteries…they are not going to give up all the big mysteries in the first the episodes.

  187. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="370592"]Someone said maybe you die (on the island) after you finish what you came for. (And then, presumably you are allowed to return to your real life).

    Maybe so.

    Boone has the whole reconcilliation / closure with his half-sister, then dies.

    Eko comes to terms with his past, then dies.

    Charlie stops being a selfish git, then dies.

    Michael is prevented from dying over and over, until he does his job then dies.
    Etc.

    I don’t know what job Frogurt and Doc Arzt had. They just seemed like a-holes, then died.

    Is this all too obvious?[/quote]

    That is what I think the overall point will be in the end.

  188. C.RELLA says:

    [quote comment="370497"]I want some clarification about what all this “infection, disease” nonsense is about…

    Sayid and Claire’s “infections” certainly seem to resemble those of Rousseau’s crew…

    (Side note – though I also noticed the similarities of Claire and Danielle, I don’t think Danielle was “infected” – I think it’s more of a consequence of living alone on the island for a long time).

    If the French and Losties cases are the same – do you have to die before you become “infected”? If so, then Rousseau’s friends must have been killed by Smokey and then somehow brought back to life from him… maybe they did go to the temple, but why would they have been allowed to leave afterward?

    Also, are these “infections” related to what the Dharma Initiative was fighting against when we first met Desmond? The quarantined hatch, the latex jumpsuits and gas masks…. I assumed this was to prevent against another gassing a la Ben, but then… why the vaccinations?

    And then, finally… the Others have these vaccinations as well. That must mean that DI’s damage control was not for the gassing, but for whatever “infection” there is on the island?

    I’m guessing that means there was a time, about 16 years ago, when MIB was gaining forces like mad.

    Maybe that was when the DI casualties were tossed in the mass grave and not buried…

    Also, does this have any connection to babies not being born on the island?

    When oh when will the answers come?![/quote]
    the mass grave was Ben’s gassing of the DI…the ‘others’that healed Ben in the pool took over DharmaVille…then when Widmore came Ben sent them back to to the ‘Temple’

  189. Lily says:

    [quote comment="370583"]
    I have a theory on the big picture of what is going to happen: I think that the “flash sideways” may be showing what will happen after all the stuff on the island is complete.

    I think that the purpose of the Losties getting called to the island and experiencing all of this is for them to grow and overcome their weaknesses and flaws, and then for them to go back to the real world and live better lives….[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I really like this theory. I was kinda thinking the same thing but couldn’t think of a way to explain how Charlie is alive etc… I’m wondering though, how would this explain when the Oceanic 6 get off the island for three years? Is that not in the real world either? Do you think this life lesson applies to everyone else who comes to the island, like Juliet and Ben (as if he’ll ever actually learn his lesson….), or just our 815 passengers?

    Interesting idea!

  190. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370600"]Answers in the first 3 episodes:

    What is the ‘sickness’ Danielle spoke about.
    What’s in the temple.
    Why Ben was taken to the temple by Richard.
    Hugo definitely sees/talk to dead people (not in his head)
    Who MIB is.
    Who ‘controls’ smokey.
    Where Cindy, Zach and Emma went.
    What is in the guitar case.
    What happened to Claire.
    Why smokey told Ben to listen to ‘Locke’.

    More?

    They still have to tell the rest of the story while answering mysteries…they are not going to give up all the big mysteries in the first the episodes.[/quote]
    Yeah I don’t understand why people say we aren’t getting any answers. Of course we don’t get ALL answers, and many times we get partial answers not full answers. But in pretty much every episode we get answers (even in the loathsome Jack’s tattoos episode).

    I didn’t like this episode as much as “LA X”, but I can imagine that as this season progresses, and this episode can be regarded as part of a whole, this episode will be regarded a little more highly.

    I also think part of the problem is re-adjusting to watching these episodes in real time, with commercial breaks, and having to wait a week between episodes, as opposed to watching a bunch episodes in a row without commercials on the DVDs.

    Oh, and another “answer” we got is to the question, “what is the purpose of the ash on the ground?”

  191. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    [quote comment="370577"][quote comment="370574"]Rewatched that too! Funny it just says D. Again, I would think that is the days date as most machines anymore keep the current time and date… [/quote]

    Plus the timestamp (09:29:42 AM) is right above it. Does it make sense to declare the exact second the child is expected to be born? Or does it make more sense for a timestamp to have a date associated with it? You know — so the next medico that looks at it doesn’t say – “Great. 9:29 AM. What frikin’ day?”

    Plus 815 was scheduled to land at 10:42 AM. So??? What? Claire got carjacked in the taxi, dumped by Kate, Kate got her cuffs off, then recovered Claire, they went the 5 miles to Brentwood and rejected by adopt-a-mom, then to Angel Mercy hospital, admitted, disrobed and sonogram’d at 9:29 AM???

    They’d have to be Marines. “We do more before 8 AM than most people do all day!” and have landed about 7 hours early. Or have been on a different flight. OR went for the ultrasound on a day after the flight Kate was on.[/quote]

    i’m not concerned about WHEN she’s gonna have her baby, i’m just bothered that THIS 815 flight wasn’t on 9/22. why recreate everything and wear the same clothes as the orginal 9/22 if it’s not that day?

  192. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    and yes, that’s some serious marine action! :-)

  193. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370605"][quote comment="370577"][quote comment="370574"]Rewatched that too! Funny it just says D. Again, I would think that is the days date as most machines anymore keep the current time and date… [/quote]

    Plus the timestamp (09:29:42 AM) is right above it. Does it make sense to declare the exact second the child is expected to be born? Or does it make more sense for a timestamp to have a date associated with it? You know — so the next medico that looks at it doesn’t say – “Great. 9:29 AM. What frikin’ day?”

    Plus 815 was scheduled to land at 10:42 AM. So??? What? Claire got carjacked in the taxi, dumped by Kate, Kate got her cuffs off, then recovered Claire, they went the 5 miles to Brentwood and rejected by adopt-a-mom, then to Angel Mercy hospital, admitted, disrobed and sonogram’d at 9:29 AM???

    They’d have to be Marines. “We do more before 8 AM than most people do all day!” and have landed about 7 hours early. Or have been on a different flight. OR went for the ultrasound on a day after the flight Kate was on.[/quote]

    i’m not concerned about WHEN she’s gonna have her baby, i’m just bothered that THIS 815 flight wasn’t on 9/22. why recreate everything and wear the same clothes as the orginal 9/22 if it’s not that day?[/quote]
    The production team has acknowledged that the 10/22 date was a mistake.

  194. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    FOLKS THAT DISLIKED THE EPISODE:
    what is the point of telling us? you’re not being very constructive.
    not EVERY episode is going to be mind-blowing; that would alienate TONS of viewers if it were that way.
    this is the typical arc of the show; every other episode is awesome. the others are just great.

    regarding the whole Claire-dying thing:
    the following exchange during The Shape of Things to Come has always struck a chord with me:

    SAWYER: You all right, sweetheart?
    CLAIRE: Yeah, a bit wobbly, but, uh, I’ll live.
    MILES: Well, I wouldn’t be too sure about that.

    Miles saying that implied, to me, that either she is already dead or he know she will die. It was the same kind of vibe that he had when sayid “died” and he “wasn’t getting anything” from him (hearing him) and he made some little remark that hurley asked about, to which Miles replied something like “oh nothing”.

  195. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    [quote comment="370607"][quote comment="370605"][quote comment="370577"][quote comment="370574"]R[/quote]

    i’m not concerned about WHEN she’s gonna have her baby, i’m just bothered that THIS 815 flight wasn’t on 9/22. why recreate everything and wear the same clothes as the orginal 9/22 if it’s not that day?[/quote]
    The production team has acknowledged that the 10/22 date was a mistake.[/quote]

    WHEW!!! do you have a link? i want to believe it, but i won’t until i see it. thanks!

  196. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="370607"]
    The production team has acknowledged that the 10/22 date was a mistake.[/quote]
    So put an end to that discussion.

  197. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370609"][quote comment="370607"][quote comment="370605"][quote comment="370577"][quote comment="370574"]R[/quote]

    i’m not concerned about WHEN she’s gonna have her baby, i’m just bothered that THIS 815 flight wasn’t on 9/22. why recreate everything and wear the same clothes as the orginal 9/22 if it’s not that day?[/quote]
    The production team has acknowledged that the 10/22 date was a mistake.[/quote]

    WHEW!!! do you have a link? i want to believe it, but i won’t until i see it. thanks![/quote]
    _______________________________
    Here’s info about the sonogram:

    http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=120299

    Also of interest may be the production error with Sayid’s passport:

    http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=119938

  198. Toeknee says:

    Hmmm, screwed that up. I’ll try again…

    Here’s info about the sonogram:

    http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=120299

    Also of interest may be the production error with Sayid’s passport:

    http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=119938

  199. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370600"]Answers in the first 3 episodes:
    What is the ‘sickness’ Danielle spoke about.
    What’s in the temple.
    Why Ben was taken to the temple by Richard.
    Hugo definitely sees/talk to dead people (not in his head)
    Who MIB is.
    Who ‘controls’ smokey.
    Where Cindy, Zach and Emma went.
    What is in the guitar case.
    What happened to Claire.
    Why smokey told Ben to listen to ‘Locke’.

    More?

    They still have to tell the rest of the story while answering mysteries…they are not going to give up all the big mysteries in the first the episodes.[/quote]

    I mean I’m a big fan of the show but we really, really are getting close to that JTS moment. I know, I know, I said it before, and they recovered somewhat, but folks…I’m scared.

    I think I may have a little higher standard for what I consider answers if you feel the list you provided has offered some definition.

    So the sickness is? Smokey, or the cloudy water? If it is Smokey it only occurs if he touches a person? How would that exactly work, because he already touched Locke way back when. If it is cloudy water, why would the Others put Sayid in it?

    Who MIB is? I’m thinking “what is he?” is a more appropriate question at this point.

    What did happened to Claire?

    I understand that we get partial answers but we’re early in the 4th quarter, and we’re down 21 pts. We’ve got to put it in the endzone and can’t settle for field goals and lollipops. We don’t have time to run the ball/develop alternate storylines, people are starting to head to the gates.

  200. Toeknee says:

    My first attempts to post this info about production errors seem to have failed, so I’ll try again. I apologize if this ends up being a repost of a repost.

    Here’s info about the sonogram:

    http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=120299

    Also of interest may be the production error with Sayid’s passport:

    http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=119938

  201. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370599"][quote comment="370587"][quote comment="370553"]IF the Oceanic flight 815(?) landed 10-22 instead of 9-22, then it simply further shows that changing the past changes detail but not the big picture. Jacob was the reason they all got on flight 815 that was supposed to land on 9-22. WHH and course correction gets them together on a different flight to make sure their lives intersect and the new circumstances will get them back on the island in another way.[/quote]
    JAcob was not the reason that any of them got on flight 815. What are you basis for saying that?[/quote]
    ++++++++++++++++++
    I was talking about the original 815 flight. You didn’t see Jacob ‘touch’ the main characters that all ended up on 815 that ended up crashing on the island and THEY survived? THAT is what my basis is.[/quote]
    You are still an idiot. Nothing has changed since last year.

  202. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370615"]
    You are still an idiot. Nothing has changed since last year.[/quote]
    Not cool dude

  203. Skeet says:

    [quote comment="370608"]FOLKS THAT DISLIKED THE EPISODE:
    what is the point of telling us? you’re not being very constructive.
    not EVERY episode is going to be mind-blowing; that would alienate TONS of viewers if it were that way.
    this is the typical arc of the show; every other episode is awesome. the others are just great.[/quote]
    We’ve got as much right to comment on the episode as you. What’s the point of you telling us “the others are just great”? If we didn’t like the show, we wouldn’t hang around for six seasons.

    Whoever said every episode needs to be “mind blowing”? I criticized this episode because, to me, it was poorly written in several respects. While this episode certainly has its high moments (e.g. Sawyer weeping over Juliet), it is simply disappointing.

    I’ll say again that I expect answers to most of the questions will be forthcoming. That doesn’t justify the silliness of this latest episode.

  204. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370616"][quote comment="370615"]
    You are still an idiot. Nothing has changed since last year.[/quote]
    Not cool dude[/quote]
    Thanks Toeknee.

  205. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370609"][quote comment="370607"][quote comment="370605"][quote comment="370577"][quote comment="370574"]R[/quote]

    i’m not concerned about WHEN she’s gonna have her baby, i’m just bothered that THIS 815 flight wasn’t on 9/22. why recreate everything and wear the same clothes as the orginal 9/22 if it’s not that day?[/quote]
    The production team has acknowledged that the 10/22 date was a mistake.[/quote]

    WHEW!!! do you have a link? i want to believe it, but i won’t until i see it. thanks![/quote][/quote]

    I tried a couple times to post a link, but apparently such messages have to be approved by Will or Nick first. Those other posts may eventually show up, but in the meantime, try this:

    Go to forum_dot_thefuslage_dot_com
    Under “Ask the Staff”, Click where it says “Got Questions for the Lost VIP’s?”
    On the next page, click “For the Lost Creative Team”
    On the next page, click ”For Gregg Nations”
    On the next page, you’ll see the list of threads on that board. Read the one entitled “Claire’s Sonogram”
    Also, read the one entitled “Sayid’s Passport” for another mistake.
    And, if you want some reassurance about the “flash-sideways” storytelling device, read the thread entitled “The Engagement Ring”

  206. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370613"][quote comment="370600"]Answers in the first 3 episodes:
    What is the ‘sickness’ Danielle spoke about.
    What’s in the temple.
    Why Ben was taken to the temple by Richard.
    Hugo definitely sees/talk to dead people (not in his head)
    Who MIB is.
    Who ‘controls’ smokey.
    Where Cindy, Zach and Emma went.
    What is in the guitar case.
    What happened to Claire.
    Why smokey told Ben to listen to ‘Locke’.

    More?

    They still have to tell the rest of the story while answering mysteries…they are not going to give up all the big mysteries in the first the episodes.[/quote]

    I mean I’m a big fan of the show but we really, really are getting close to that JTS moment. I know, I know, I said it before, and they recovered somewhat, but folks…I’m scared.

    I think I may have a little higher standard for what I consider answers if you feel the list you provided has offered some definition.

    So the sickness is? Smokey, or the cloudy water? If it is Smokey it only occurs if he touches a person? How would that exactly work, because he already touched Locke way back when. If it is cloudy water, why would the Others put Sayid in it?

    Who MIB is? I’m thinking “what is he?” is a more appropriate question at this point.

    What did happened to Claire?

    I understand that we get partial answers but we’re early in the 4th quarter, and we’re down 21 pts. We’ve got to put it in the endzone and can’t settle for field goals and lollipops. We don’t have time to run the ball/develop alternate storylines, people are starting to head to the gates.[/quote]
    I hear ya, but they have rarely given detailed answers. Like all good stories, you must interpret and figure out what is inferred. JMO, but a show that is already ending can’t jump the shark per se. Jumping the shark forces the ending. LOL.

  207. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="370603"][quote comment="370583"]
    I have a theory on the big picture of what is going to happen: I think that the “flash sideways” may be showing what will happen after all the stuff on the island is complete.

    I think that the purpose of the Losties getting called to the island and experiencing all of this is for them to grow and overcome their weaknesses and flaws, and then for them to go back to the real world and live better lives….[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I really like this theory. I was kinda thinking the same thing but couldn’t think of a way to explain how Charlie is alive etc… I’m wondering though, how would this explain when the Oceanic 6 get off the island for three years? Is that not in the real world either? Do you think this life lesson applies to everyone else who comes to the island, like Juliet and Ben (as if he’ll ever actually learn his lesson….), or just our 815 passengers?

    Interesting idea![/quote]

    As I mentioned, the theory still has a lot of questions. Re: the 3 years off the island, I guess that stuff would have to have never really happened either, nor would the “cover-up” of the original 815 crash, etc. Maybe that stuff never really happened in the objective reality to the outside world (outside the Losties), but happened to them in their reality, sort of their “dream” — their time in “Oz”

    In this theory, I would propose it applies to everyone (that is, to every normal “human” person) who gets “called” to the island. That would include Julia (who definitely learned lessons of her own in her experiences there), Ben (who has also learned a lot – humility one thing he’s learning now), and maybe even people like Ethan. Maybe that even includes our new characters at the temple “John Lennon” and “Ghengis Khan”, as I like to call them.

    I don’t know if that would apply to people who sort of invaded the island two seasons ago — Keemi (sp?) and the rest of the bad guys. Maybe they were not really called to the island.

    By the way, under this theory, maybe Daniel Faraday and Charlotte are not really dead, but will have some outcome in the real world too. Daniel definitely “grew” during his time on the island, as he came to understand that life is not deterministic, that fate is not absolute, and that we all have choices to make in our lives.

    This theory is not perfect, but compelling to me since it seems that a primary theme of the whole series is showing us each of these people’s character flaws and weaknesses, and showing how their experiences on the island help them work them out. Also, it fits with the persistant them of the island “calling” specific people to it.

  208. LINS says:

    [quote comment="370581"]Why do you call him Flocke?[/quote]

    I believe a more correct term now might be Smocke.

    Smokey + Locke :)

  209. Hammer says:

    Poached from an FB user:

    “Why did the smoke monster cross the road?”
    “To get to the other Sayid…”

  210. Larla says:

    [quote comment="370623"]Poached from an FB user:

    “Why did the smoke monster cross the road?”
    “To get to the other Sayid…”[/quote]

    LOL Hammer! And, just for the record…you’re no idiot! I actually look forward to reading your thoughts – they are often right on!

  211. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370624"][quote comment="370623"]Poached from an FB user:

    “Why did the smoke monster cross the road?”
    “To get to the other Sayid…”[/quote]

    LOL Hammer! And, just for the record…you’re no idiot! I actually look forward to reading your thoughts – they are often right on![/quote]
    ++++++++++++++
    Thanks Larla, but not right often enough….like I was WAY wrong about Richard taking over Sayid’s body.

  212. Miss lost says:

    Hammer-funny joke!
    On the other subject, who is right all the time? No one! This show is geared for that. IMO that is what makes the show great and this site so much fun. Everytime they answer something like who Jacob is, they bring about more questions, like “who is Jacob?” So we get to throw out our 2 cents on all the different mysteries as we try to piece this puzzle together and this blog allows us to ask questions, answer questions, agree with ideas, or agree to disagree!
    Sometimes I think Aha! I’ve got it and then the show or one of you throws a wrench at me and then it’s more like, “huh- I didn’t think of it that way.”
    So keep posting, Hammer, PJ, Tasha, RGS, Lins, DocH and all you others as I enjoy getting Lost in your thoughts and interpretations! And even you Duke as long as you don’t attack us for having our own thoughts and ideas about this show.

  213. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370626"]
    Sometimes I think Aha! I’ve got it and then the show or one of you throws a wrench at me and then it’s more like, “huh- I didn’t think of it that way.”
    [/quote]

    I know! Often times, we formulate these fairly complex theories that seem flawless, and then BAM, someone reminds you that Aaron’s father is still alive in Australia (or whatever). I love that (by the most part) people can discuss ideas and theories in a mature, polite manner. I tend to ignore those who can’t or choose not to.

    : ) P

  214. Tasty English says:

    [quote comment="370594"]For me this was one of the worst episodes ever;
    Jack is back to his rock head macho ways.
    What sane person starts fighting with a bunch of armed Others with his bare hands? Is he trying to give them a reason to shoot them all?

    And the dialogue with the Japanese guy;
    “What’s that?
    A Baseball.”
    later;
    “What is it?
    Tea.”
    Why didn’t JAck ask; where’s the Sushi?
    Duh. WTF? Are the writers on strike again?
    Whew…a thrill a minute.
    And the show is seriously lacking a sense of humor.

    Jack; And now I’m gonna be a complete idiot and take a pill that might kill me because….well, for no reason. Except the show needs more false drama.
    It’s like the writers just checked out of the LOST Hotel.

    And Claire the Airhead;
    She’s preggers, get’s Jacked and robbed…and she doesn’t call the Police? Just waits around the streets for…Freckles to reappear. That stuffed tou has more sense.
    The Hospitals Staff doesn’t notice a big gun sticking in the pants covered by a thin blouse? Right.
    Then later she gives up her credit card??? WTF City.
    And she can’t find an adoption family on her own Continent?
    A better conclusion to the front door scene would be Freckles whipping out the gun on the crying bitch and say…empty the wallet and jewelry box you stupid cow…for leaving my Preggo friend in the lurch. I’ll give you something to cry about “Miss Can’t make a Goddamn Phone call”!

    And even though the Others insist that everyone must be brought back to the compound…NO ONE asks why…and Freckles doesn’t even bother to remind Jin when he wants to split…or tell this possible vital info to Sawyer.

    The Show is getting way dumb and I’m on the verge of stepping off…
    I could write better scripts in my sleep.

    The only scene I liked was when Aldo got clobbered.

    I see Claire got a makeover on the Island…did she dig into a stash of Charlie’s? Her head looks like she got licked all over by a Polar Bear.[/quote]

    haha!

    still a good episode though, me likes.

  215. Tasty English says:

    I don’t understand all the complaints about LOST not answering every question we deem “important.” The LOST ending will probably be more similar to the sopranos than to a neatly packed ?-box with all the answers we want to see.

    I would suggest looking into french cinema (specifically a thriller like “CACHE”) where the ending is much more left up to the viewer as opposed to a straight line.

    The important thing is to enjoy the ride, process as much information as possible, and spend the next few years discussing just what the finale meant…

  216. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370629"]I don’t understand all the complaints about LOST not answering every question we deem “important.” The LOST ending will probably be more similar to the sopranos than to a neatly packed ?-box with all the answers we want to see.

    I would suggest looking into french cinema (specifically a thriller like “CACHE”) where the ending is much more left up to the viewer as opposed to a straight line.

    The important thing is to enjoy the ride, process as much information as possible, and spend the next few years discussing just what the finale meant…[/quote]
    Amen preacher Tasty.

  217. TECH says:

    Good start so far in terms of confusing me but i just have a question and i’d like to hear your opinions. Do any of you think that the real John Locke will return to life? I would be really disappointed if the real John Locke doesn’t come back and fight for our survivors. I know Locke has done somethings that we haven’t agree with (killing Naomi, blowing up the sub) but all he’s done is protect every1 on the island to the best of his ability. I felt really bad for Locke in the alternate time line when he and Jack were talking and I truly do believe Jack will “fix” Locke in the alternate time line. Something tells me that Locke will return in our time line and fight off the bad Locke. I really hope it happens but what do you all think about a return of the man, the myth, the legend, John Locke

  218. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370631"]Good start so far in terms of confusing me but i just have a question and i’d like to hear your opinions. Do any of you think that the real John Locke will return to life? I would be really disappointed if the real John Locke doesn’t come back and fight for our survivors. I know Locke has done somethings that we haven’t agree with (killing Naomi, blowing up the sub) but all he’s done is protect every1 on the island to the best of his ability. I felt really bad for Locke in the alternate time line when he and Jack were talking and I truly do believe Jack will “fix” Locke in the alternate time line. Something tells me that Locke will return in our time line and fight off the bad Locke. I really hope it happens but what do you all think about a return of the man, the myth, the legend, John Locke[/quote]
    My opinion is dead is dead…especially off island. Unless in the new time line Locke somehow survives WHH…but I don’t think people literally come back to life in this story.

  219. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="370629"]I don’t understand all the complaints about LOST not answering every question we deem “important.” The LOST ending will probably be more similar to the sopranos than to a neatly packed ?-box with all the answers we want to see.
    [/quote]

    Given that D&C have REPEATEDLY referred to the Sopranos ending and continuously say that at least half the fans are going to be disappointed, I think we are MEANT to expect to be left unhappy.

    [quote comment="370629"]
    The important thing is to enjoy the ride, process as much information as possible, and spend the next few years discussing just what the finale meant…[/quote]

    I definitely agree. Was “What Kate Does” in the top ten (or even top 100) episodes? For most, probably not. I don’t mind a slow moving story as long as there is some great character development, and really, other than an Emmy winning moment for Josh Holloway, this episode didn’t have it. We *did* get a lot of answers, even if they weren’t the answers you (colloquially, not specifically) wanted.

    I understand people’s frustration with the episode, I just don’t see how BMCing about it changes anything! It isn’t as if D&C are going to read these posts and decide to scrap the 12 episodes already in the can and start over because a bunch of fans are complaining! LOL

    I have to trust that this episode will be an important foundation in the months to come.

    : ) P

  220. mrs markelz says:

    [quote comment="370602"][quote comment="370497"]I want some clarification about what all this “infection, disease” nonsense is about…

    Sayid and Claire’s “infections” certainly seem to resemble those of Rousseau’s crew…

    (Side note – though I also noticed the similarities of Claire and Danielle, I don’t think Danielle was “infected” – I think it’s more of a consequence of living alone on the island for a long time).

    If the French and Losties cases are the same – do you have to die before you become “infected”? If so, then Rousseau’s friends must have been killed by Smokey and then somehow brought back to life from him… maybe they did go to the temple, but why would they have been allowed to leave afterward?

    Also, are these “infections” related to what the Dharma Initiative was fighting against when we first met Desmond? The quarantined hatch, the latex jumpsuits and gas masks…. I assumed this was to prevent against another gassing a la Ben, but then… why the vaccinations?

    And then, finally… the Others have these vaccinations as well. That must mean that DI’s damage control was not for the gassing, but for whatever “infection” there is on the island?

    I’m guessing that means there was a time, about 16 years ago, when MIB was gaining forces like mad.

    Maybe that was when the DI casualties were tossed in the mass grave and not buried…

    Also, does this have any connection to babies not being born on the island?

    When oh when will the answers come?![/quote]
    the mass grave was Ben’s gassing of the DI…the ‘others’that healed Ben in the pool took over DharmaVille…then when Widmore came Ben sent them back to to the ‘Temple’[/quote]
    ***************
    why did they spend so much time on the ben vs widmore story line in the past 2 seasons? i jst dont see how it fits into the story line anymore why waste our time with it all since now its seems to be all about jacob/mib i just cant let this one go until i find out how widmore fits in here? or ellie, daniel/penny why talk about these charact. if they dont matter. pls someone shed some light pls – hammer pj duke someone??

  221. Dave says:

    I feel like a mug for still watching this show. It is a mess.

  222. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370634"][quote comment="370602"][quote comment="370497"]

    When oh when will the answers come?![/quote]
    the mass grave was Ben’s gassing of the DI…the ‘others’that healed Ben in the pool took over DharmaVille…then when Widmore came Ben sent them back to to the ‘Temple’[/quote]
    ***************
    why did they spend so much time on the ben vs widmore story line in the past 2 seasons? i jst dont see how it fits into the story line anymore why waste our time with it all since now its seems to be all about jacob/mib i just cant let this one go until i find out how widmore fits in here? or ellie, daniel/penny why talk about these charact. if they dont matter. pls someone shed some light pls – hammer pj duke someone??[/quote]
    Here is my crack at it:

    The Jacob/MIB part of the story couldn’t be told because it what the LOST island is all about. Ben/Widmore et al seem to be the pawns or backgammon pieces. Jacob/MIB couldn’t be introduced until they had an end date. They would only be wasting your time if don’t want to hear the STORY of LOST…just the ending.

    Ben vs. Widmore seems to have been one of the ‘corruptions’ that MIB spoke of with Jacob….part of the story….

  223. wally p says:

    I was thinking about the open grave, and why that would be there. Since Ben is pretty much the head up on that operation, I’d guess that its under his say that the Others left the open grave. It wouldn’t suprise me if Ben had had a few more encounters with his mother the entire time he’s been on the island. His mother being someone he would certainly trust to listen to, and also being the MIB. I’m sold solid that the MIB is actually all of the dead characters. He’s been playing the leaders of the others all along. Including Locke and Charles Widmore. Even played Ben against Widmore, who nows who else… Hurley?

  224. wally p says:

    The date 10/22 on the ultrasound I think is to show that Claires encounter with Ethan is aligned perfectly in time with the time that she was in that baby hatch with Ethan on the island.

  225. wally p says:

    Also, dig this idea. LOST island really is Hell. MIB is the devil and it’s HIS island. Jacob is sort of a rougue angel or some good doer who was granted too many wishes in his day, and has stationed himself there as his mission that people who are there can be saved…

    As long as Jacob is alive the MIBs powers are thwarted by Others who follow Jacob. MIB can do nothing to stop this because Jacob has sealed his power up tight as long as he lives… which should technically be forever. But if MIB can get rid of Jacob all together, then he will have his power back over the island, and the Others can not have the power to stop him… giving him his island back and in that way, he would be home.

  226. DocH says:

    [quote comment="370638"]The date 10/22 on the ultrasound I think is to show…[/quote]

    …I believe that baby has already been put to bed – a little farther up the page…

    Ctrl-F then “Gregg”

  227. LostJunkie says:

    Y’all do have to admit that for those of us that thought this was a shoddy episode, the apparent editing error of the 10/22 ultrasound date just further proves our point. It’s like they hired amateur writers and editors for this week’s show LOL.

  228. Murphey says:

    Is The LOST Experience cannon?

    I was just reading about it and came up with a theory for the end game. The Valenzetti equation predicts the end of the world in 30 years from the 70s or something like that. The Dharma Initiative was trying to change the variables “the numbers” to delay the end of the world but had no success. They thought the island was key.

    Maybe Dhama was right but just didn’t know what to do. I’m going with the theory that Jacob and MIB are Egyptian gods or somehow gifted. What if Jacob is trying to change the variables and needs the “backgammon piece” losties to do it. MIB is trying to stop him because he wants the world to end to go back home – the spirit world or something.

    Maybe this is MIB and Jacob’s game and there are rules that must be followed to change the variables. Maybe the game is a test for mankind. Jacob keeps bringing people to the island to try to pass the test but they always fail. MIB helps them fail – corrupts them.

    When the losties eventually succeed in passing the Test, this changes the Valenzeti equation, they reset time from some point in the past with the Island at the bottom of the ocean, creating the alternative universe – flash sideways which effectively destroys the old universe where the world was destined to end shortly and delaying the end of time.

    Any thoughts?

  229. wally p says:

    [quote comment="370603"][quote comment="370583"]
    I have a theory on the big picture of what is going to happen: I think that the “flash sideways” may be showing what will happen after all the stuff on the island is complete.

    I think that the purpose of the Losties getting called to the island and experiencing all of this is for them to grow and overcome their weaknesses and flaws, and then for them to go back to the real world and live better lives….[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I really like this theory. I was kinda thinking the same thing but couldn’t think of a way to explain how Charlie is alive etc… I’m wondering though, how would this explain when the Oceanic 6 get off the island for three years? Is that not in the real world either? Do you think this life lesson applies to everyone else who comes to the island, like Juliet and Ben (as if he’ll ever actually learn his lesson….), or just our 815 passengers?

    Interesting idea![/quote]

    I like this too,,, to take it further, I think time travel is over. I think that the 1977 finale shows that Faraday figured out how to end time travel (which I think he was responsible for in the first place)

    The time loop was a big issue- we saw that Ms Hawking took careful steps to keep the loop as tight as possible, by confronting desmond, making sure Faraday had the journal etc… seems like the loop was what kept these people going forever, in a sense. The loop could have gone forever and ever, giving some a certain power to communicate with themselves from one life to the next… see the future…

    SO, anything that happened in the past IS the past now that the loop is broken… if the loop was part of MIBs plan, now it is done. If 815 never happened, neither did Oceanic 6. In real life (LAX, alt., whatever), the losties already never go to the island.

    As far as the losties still on island, maybe at this point they are like shadows or something…finishing what they started. They all could be underwater with the island imo. like the shark… or the black rock…

  230. LostJunkie says:

    wally p,

    What if the time loop actually ISN’T broken? What if the end result of what we will see this season is another flash and they all end up…back on Flight 815, which crashes onto the Island? I know that it would seem that the flash sideways may have changed things, but what if this is what happened all along?

    I still say that the way Jack woke up in the jungle in the Pilot episode was telling. We’ll see!

  231. wally p says:

    [quote comment="370644"]wally p,

    What if the time loop actually ISN’T broken? What if the end result of what we will see this season is another flash and they all end up…back on Flight 815, which crashes onto the Island? I know that it would seem that the flash sideways may have changed things, but what if this is what happened all along?

    I still say that the way Jack woke up in the jungle in the Pilot episode was telling. We’ll see![/quote]

    Ok, but why wouldn’t they have just flashed to 815 then? If the flashes were the result of Faradays messing with time, and they had been haulted, it would make sense that Jack and Kate etc. would go to their proper time— not their place in the loop— say the loop started for them (Jack at least I’d say had already been in the loop before every one else on 815) on Sep 22 2004 every other time, but this time he is where he should rightfully be in 2007 and OUT of the loop. He’s still on the island, because NOW there is a REAL Jack in the real world…

  232. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="370645"][quote comment="370644"]wally p,

    What if the time loop actually ISN’T broken? What if the end result of what we will see this season is another flash and they all end up…back on Flight 815, which crashes onto the Island? I know that it would seem that the flash sideways may have changed things, but what if this is what happened all along?

    I still say that the way Jack woke up in the jungle in the Pilot episode was telling. We’ll see![/quote]

    Ok, but why wouldn’t they have just flashed to 815 then? If the flashes were the result of Faradays messing with time, and they had been haulted, it would make sense that Jack and Kate etc. would go to their proper time— not their place in the loop— say the loop started for them (Jack at least I’d say had already been in the loop before every one else on 815) on Sep 22 2004 every other time, but this time he is where he should rightfully be in 2007 and OUT of the loop. He’s still on the island, because NOW there is a REAL Jack in the real world…[/quote]

    You’re probably right, and I do tend to think that the flash sideways is meant to show that something really did change, but I’m just throwing it out there. I’m still not 100% convinced that this didn’t always happen like this.

  233. Tasty English says:

    Given the backlash this episode has recieved I was happily surprised when I came across this blog posting

    http://jopinionated.blogspot.com/2010/02/lost-episode-603-what-kate-does-initial.html

    It does a good job in describing the (tasty) fruits that came out of this episode. Especially the comment on “The Sickness”;

    “It turns out that Rousseau was not really a crazy French lady after all. What she referred to as the ‘sickness’ is in fact an infection/infiltration of the dark side at the hands of the Man in Black.”

    This makes a lot of sense to me. I was confused as to what exactly “the sickness” was until I reflected on the quote above. Now is Sayid really infected? Is Claie infected or simply reacting to the sickness as Rousseau did herself (believing everyone to be infected in the island)?

    enjoy.

  234. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="370642"]Is The LOST Experience cannon?

    I was just reading about it and came up with a theory for the end game. The Valenzetti equation predicts the end of the world in 30 years from the 70s or something like that. The Dharma Initiative was trying to change the variables “the numbers” to delay the end of the world but had no success. They thought the island was key.

    Maybe Dhama was right but just didn’t know what to do. I’m going with the theory that Jacob and MIB are Egyptian gods or somehow gifted. What if Jacob is trying to change the variables and needs the “backgammon piece” losties to do it. MIB is trying to stop him because he wants the world to end to go back home – the spirit world or something.

    Maybe this is MIB and Jacob’s game and there are rules that must be followed to change the variables. Maybe the game is a test for mankind. Jacob keeps bringing people to the island to try to pass the test but they always fail. MIB helps them fail – corrupts them.

    When the losties eventually succeed in passing the Test, this changes the Valenzeti equation, they reset time from some point in the past with the Island at the bottom of the ocean, creating the alternative universe – flash sideways which effectively destroys the old universe where the world was destined to end shortly and delaying the end of time.

    Any thoughts?[/quote]

    OK, here it goes.
    Ultimately, Lost is a story about the conflict between Good and Evil, represented by Jacob and MIB. The essence of Evil is control and domination, and the essence of Good is free will.
    MIB tempts, subverts and finally, at least in some cases, takes over and dominates the individual. He removes choice and conquers free will. But it is the nature of Good (or Jacob) to allow this to happen. Good allows the free person to elect whether or not to follow the Good or Evil path, and in this way Jacob relies upon the inherent goodness that exists within an individual to make the correct choice.
    MIB believes that people are inherently open to temptation, or that everyone has that ONE thing that they can be persuaded by. People will always end up destroying, fighting, etc. –as he says when the Black Rock approaches. Jacob on the other hand believes in people. He believes that even if the wrong choice has been made, a person is not lost, because there is always an opportunity for redemption. Once again the opportunity to exercise choice to turn away from the path of evil is available. By allowing the Losties to make their choices, even if they are not the right ones, there will eventually be progress- the individuals will eventually make better choices of their own free will.
    So while the MIB is primarily a source of temptation, he is betting on the bad in people, which will ultimately lead to him loosing. The essential theme in Lost is the freedom to choose. All the people have the freedom of choice, and this is an essential attribute of Jacob, or Good. MIB, or Evil, seeks domination, rule and control. The forces of Good allow for free will and free choice, and even though this may lead to a disastrous end, it is achieved by choices made without manipulation, and thus will “win” in the end.

  235. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    I can buy the fate/free will, but i don’t know if it’s necessarily good vs. evil. I don’t think jacob is completely good, nor is MIB “evil”.
    Jacob was an enabler for sawyer, and he could’ve saved nadia if he wanted to, but that didn’t fit into his plan. I’m thinking he’s not done some very nice things if MIB has been yearning to kill him.
    Ben summoned Smoky/MIB when he needed him as a “security system”. So while he [MIB/smoky] was killing, he was doing it to protect someone else.
    Also, if ben vs. widmore is an extension of jacob vs. MIB, then we KNOW they’re both guilty of douchebaggery; we’ve seen ben AND widmore act more evil than good.

  236. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="370642"]Is The LOST Experience cannon?

    I was just reading about it and came up with a theory for the end game. The Valenzetti equation predicts the end of the world in 30 years from the 70s or something like that. The Dharma Initiative was trying to change the variables “the numbers” to delay the end of the world but had no success. They thought the island was key.

    Maybe Dhama was right but just didn’t know what to do. I’m going with the theory that Jacob and MIB are Egyptian gods or somehow gifted. What if Jacob is trying to change the variables and needs the “backgammon piece” losties to do it. MIB is trying to stop him because he wants the world to end to go back home – the spirit world or something.

    Maybe this is MIB and Jacob’s game and there are rules that must be followed to change the variables. Maybe the game is a test for mankind. Jacob keeps bringing people to the island to try to pass the test but they always fail. MIB helps them fail – corrupts them.

    When the losties eventually succeed in passing the Test, this changes the Valenzeti equation, they reset time from some point in the past with the Island at the bottom of the ocean, creating the alternative universe – flash sideways which effectively destroys the old universe where the world was destined to end shortly and delaying the end of time.

    Any thoughts?[/quote]

    I like that a lot! The numbers have to come into this thing somehow. One thing I do believe is that the “flash sideways” will be the reality at the end of the series, which they will reveal to us in parallel with the final events of the island.

  237. Bruno says:

    The Temple leader wants to give Sayid a pill because, he says, he is infected. There is a difference between being infected by a disease (in which case you get treatment) and being the disease itself (in which case yopu have to be destroyed unless you become the vector that spreads the disease to the whole community).

    I do not think Sayid caught a “bug”. I think that “bug” manifested itself through Sayid and therefore you have to kill him and end this before it gets out of hand. That pill was not meant to cure him.

    It the same at my house. The minute we see an ant, we get the Raid!

  238. londonboy says:

    With all the talk of sickness and Clare being back, I was reminded of the ep where Clare was kidnapped by Ethan. At the end, Charlie gave Clare some vaccines for her and Ethan. I had to look up the ep and all it said was that, that he ‘gave’ them to her but can’t remember if they actually used them. No idea if that’s relevant to this situation (the ‘infection’) or any other (ie. just a red herring), but I don’t remember if that went anywhere.

    My point being, if she took it, would that give her immunity?

    And did we ever find out who was on or the point of Jacob’s list? All I remember is that Shepherd (Jack or Christian?) wasn’t on it, and Mikhail inferring that Locke wasn’t on it. Is that relevant to who’s on what side or who is/will be infected? Were Locke, Sayid or Clare on the list? Again, I can’t remember and the quick (I’m lazy) check I did didn’t come up with anything.

    Finally, and I don’t know if it’s relevant to this ep, but not sure where it would be relevant: will we ever see the context to that moment when Sawyer’s canoe was shot at when they were flashing? It seemed to be in the future, but most of the other people in that boat are dead now, aren’t they (Locke, Juliet, Charlotte)?

  239. DJS says:

    Hmmm. Could MIB really be Aaron? D&C have never revealed his name. Lost fans have nick named him Esau, at times. But, his real name has not yet been disclosed.

  240. DocH says:

    [quote comment="370656"]Could MIB really be Aaron? [/quote]

    But Jacob is blond/fair, like Aaron. No?

  241. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="370659"][quote comment="370656"]Could MIB really be Aaron? [/quote]

    But Jacob is blond/fair, like Aaron. No?[/quote]

    I’m not sure how this could fly, as they showed Jacob/Esau on the Island during last season’s Finale episode clearly there centuries ago, like when the Black Rock was in sight. So unless Claire/Aaron have been around that long…I am not sure how it works. I think that Jacob is Jacob and Esau is Esau.

  242. DocH says:

    ref above:

    Esau?

    LOST has only referred to that character as Nemesis, and the… Man In Black (MIB). afaik.

    Black Rock was 130 years ago.

    Time travel is a major factor AND we have seen characters in the same timeline with their prior self. So Aaron can go back to become/encounter Jacob (his alias).

  243. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="370662"]ref above:

    Esau?

    LOST has only referred to that character as Nemesis, and the… Man In Black (MIB). afaik.

    Black Rock was 130 years ago.

    Time travel is a major factor AND we have seen characters in the same timeline with their prior self. So Aaron can go back to become/encounter Jacob (his alias).[/quote]
    Good points. So far they have used ‘look alike’ actors for characters at different ages. Although, the one thing we don’t know is if Smokey was using MIB’s likeness or if that is him. We don’t yet know if Smokey was ever human (or human looking) or just uses humans.

  244. Hammer says:

    Adding to your point DocH, it would seem that keeping Jacob off the island would be both to protect him from MIB as well as protect MIB from him coming back.

    Jacob was killed in ’07 but Aaron was conceived in ’04…..huh? I wonder if folks were correct that Aaron is supposed to replace Jacob…not be him.

  245. Mal says:

    Thought:

    Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

    I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

    So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.

  246. Duke says:

    For those that think that Jacob had something to do with our all of our Losties being on Oceanic flight 815. Hurley was not on the Oceanic 815 flight because of Jacob, as far as we know. He did not encounter Jacob until leaving prison which lead him to book a seat on flight 316. I guess this debunks the notion that Jacob was the reason for the main characters to be on the original flight.

  247. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370668"]Thought:

    Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

    I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

    So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.[/quote]

    Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

    I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

    Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.

  248. RGS says:

    [quote comment="370669"]For those that think that Jacob had something to do with our all of our Losties being on Oceanic flight 815. Hurley was not on the Oceanic 815 flight because of Jacob, as far as we know. He did not encounter Jacob until leaving prison which lead him to book a seat on flight 316. I guess this debunks the notion that Jacob was the reason for the main characters to be on the original flight.[/quote]

    In this topsy turvy anything goes environment that the writers have created I think the key part of what you stated is “as far as we know.”

    IF Jacob was causing these folks to get on 815, we don’t really know how he was doing it. I hope the story would not be that he was going around touching all of the key passengers, but if it were the case I would just bite down on my leather belt, and accept it.

    I don’t think they’d make Jacob’s encounters with the Oceanic 6 at some point in their lives be the sole reason that they got on 815 (we see him touch Sayid post 815 too) it would be some kind of island thing…probably even unexplained at the rate they’re going.

    Just my thought on it.

  249. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370670"][quote comment="370668"]Thought:

    Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

    I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

    So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.[/quote]

    Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

    I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

    Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.[/quote]

    But that doesn’t follow the logic that they are using for the alternate timeline… if the 1977 explosion caused an alternate 2004 timeline, then that means that everything they did in 1977 has nothing to do with the original 2004 timeline… therefore, the reality where Ben has been shot by Sayid would now be in the timeline we now see with the Losties landing in LA.

    Child Ben shot by Sayid would not exist in the first timeline… that would have to mean that new 2004 Ben may not exist, he may have sunk with the island.

  250. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment="370672"][quote comment="370670"][quote comment="370668"]Thought:

    Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

    I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

    So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.[/quote]

    Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

    I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

    Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.[/quote]

    But that doesn’t follow the logic that they are using for the alternate timeline… if the 1977 explosion caused an alternate 2004 timeline, then that means that everything they did in 1977 has nothing to do with the original 2004 timeline… therefore, the reality where Ben has been shot by Sayid would now be in the timeline we now see with the Losties landing in LA.

    Child Ben shot by Sayid would not exist in the first timeline… that would have to mean that new 2004 Ben may not exist, he may have sunk with the island.[/quote]

    If you’re right that “Sayid shooting little Ben” occurs on only one timeline, how do you know which timeline it occurred on? It’s hard for me to wrap my mind around, but wouldn’t it be possible that that event could have occurred on the same timeline that has been the focus of the first 5 seasons, and the focus of the 2007 portion of S6? Because really, the events of S5 showed how the adult Sayid time-travelled from 2007 to 1977 and shot Ben. So if we’re on the other timeline (where flight 815 lands in LA), there’s no time-travelling, right? (at least, not that we’ve seen yet)

    My take is that there was only one timeline prior to 1977, and then “the incident” caused that timeline to branch off into two different timelines, but each of those new segments of the timelines shares an identical history, pre-incident. So I think “Sayid shooting young Ben” event is common to both timelines. (I’ll admit there’s lots of holes in that theory too, but I don’t yet understand the logistics of having more than one timeline)

  251. gmtaleah says:

    [quote comment="370566"]Any thoughts on what Locke/smokey meant at the end when he came up to Richard and said it’s “good to see you out of those chains” just before he beat the crap out of him?[/quote]
    /////////////////////
    I think richard was a slave on the black rock.

  252. Duke says:

    [quote comment="370671"][quote comment="370669"]For those that think that Jacob had something to do with our all of our Losties being on Oceanic flight 815. Hurley was not on the Oceanic 815 flight because of Jacob, as far as we know. He did not encounter Jacob until leaving prison which lead him to book a seat on flight 316. I guess this debunks the notion that Jacob was the reason for the main characters to be on the original flight.[/quote]

    In this topsy turvy anything goes environment that the writers have created I think the key part of what you stated is “as far as we know.”

    IF Jacob was causing these folks to get on 815, we don’t really know how he was doing it. I hope the story would not be that he was going around touching all of the key passengers, but if it were the case I would just bite down on my leather belt, and accept it.

    I don’t think they’d make Jacob’s encounters with the Oceanic 6 at some point in their lives be the sole reason that they got on 815 (we see him touch Sayid post 815 too) it would be some kind of island thing…probably even unexplained at the rate they’re going.

    Just my thought on it.[/quote]
    I understand what you are saying. Several people on this blog have posted about Jacob being th ereason that the Losties were in Australia and therfore on flight 815. I was just pointing out that this may not be the case.

  253. Mal says:

    [quote comment="370673"][quote comment="370672"][quote comment="370670"][quote comment="370668"]Thought:

    Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977… that has to mean that the Ben we first see in 2004 has never been shot by Sayid, correct? Therefore we cannot draw conclusions of the fountain based on Ben’s actions in 2004…

    I first thought that WHH, that little Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 and has always been shot by Sayid, but clearly actions in 1977 create another time line…

    So that presumably means that 2004 Ben hasn’t taken his bath in the fountain, so that likely doesn’t affect his leadership status… it must be something else.[/quote]

    Not quite sure I’m following you. If WHH is consistently applied, then in Ben’s history, he was always shot by Sayid when we first meet him in Season 2’s(?) 2004, it’s just it hadn’t happened in Sayid’s “history” yet because he had not gone back to do it yet.

    I think that the writers are trying to show the alternate time line that was created by Jack’s 1977 antics.

    Regardless, the 2007 Ben had been shot by Sayid.[/quote]

    .[/quote]

    So I think “Sayid shooting young Ben” event is common to both timelines. (I’ll admit there’s lots of holes in that theory too, but I don’t yet understand the logistics of having more than one timeline)[/quote]

    Thanks, that makes (relative) sense… I guess the notion is that setting off the bomb was the variable… then I want to know what the future is of the 1977-without-the-explosion timeline is! If 1977 Jack, Kate et al didn’t set off the bomb… then they must have grown to be old 2004 islanders… and that would make a lot of sense as to why they are so important in the original timeline. But I suppose that’s up for speculation… though I’m sure many have already figured that part out.

    I still say that there would/should be many alternate timelines after they travel to 1977 (or anywhere in the past, for the matter), though I’ll accept the variable-v-constant time continuum concept, and move on to another exciting episode tonight!! Can’t wait!

  254. wallyp says:

    I have considered the idea that in WHH things do not have to be exactly the same. Daniel Faraday thought that they did, but came to the realization that, well, they didn’t… not quite anyway. Suppose Ben was always shot in 1977, just not by Sayid…and probably not under the same circumstances…

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