Lighthouse

Lost - Season 6 - Jack - Lighthouse

Last week we were left with the thought that one of the survivors of Flight 815, specifically those that Jacob had been in contact with, was recruited to replace Jacob as “protector” of the Island.  Evil Locke advised Sawyer of three options:

1) Do nothing, seemingly at the risk of being killed and having your name crossed off the wall
2) Take Jacob’s place as Island protector
3) Leave the Island for good (the Evil one is keen on this, probably not indicative of the best choice)

So, who do we think is the chosen one?  Tonight’s episode is Jack-centric, which means it will be great, but Jack is probably too convenient of an option for the Island protector.  What are your thoughts?

Episode Description:

“Hurley must convince Jack to accompany him on an unspecified mission, and Jin stumbles across an old friend”

Sneak Peek

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424 Responses to Lighthouse

  1. Nick says:

    Sorry for the delay and messy layout. I posted this from my phone. I’ll correct it later

  2. T'elc says:

    Maybe the Four Toe Statue is an ancient lighthouse. Maybe that is how the BlacK Rock ship found the island.

  3. mrs markelz says:

    I’m sorry for straying off topic but its been driving me nuts in what season did this lost blog switch hands and why??

  4. Shad says:

    [quote comment=”371053″]I’m sorry for straying off topic but its been driving me nuts in what season did this lost blog switch hands and why??[/quote]

    http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/farewell-my-friends

  5. Hammer says:

    Staying off topic, I think it would be great if Andreas and Cecilia came back and joined us for the last season. I miss you folks.

  6. Ben says:

    Good luck, we are all counting on you!

  7. Kat says:

    I wonder why this episode is titled “The Lighthouse”

  8. Ben says:

    Jack’s appendix scar, inputting info?

  9. Hammer says:

    Either Widmore or Des is on the way.

  10. RGS says:

    Potential continuity issue, Island Jack 2007 should not know that Claire is his sister, right?

  11. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371060″]Potential continuity issue, Island Jack 2007 should not know that Claire is his sister, right?[/quote]
    He found out when he was on O6, at his dad’s memorial.

  12. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”371061″][quote comment=”371060″]Potential continuity issue, Island Jack 2007 should not know that Claire is his sister, right?[/quote]
    He found out when he was on O6, at his dad’s memorial.[/quote]
    That’s right thank you for that.

  13. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371059″]Either Widmore or Des is on the way.[/quote]
    I thought Widmore, with an outside chance of Eloise. I doubt it would be Desmond, but I suppose he’s gotta be brought back into this story somehow.

  14. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371060″]Potential continuity issue, Island Jack 2007 should not know that Claire is his sister, right?[/quote]

    I guess this puts to rest the alterna-verse theory, eh? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

    : ) P

  15. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371063″][quote comment=”371061″][quote comment=”371060″]Potential continuity issue, Island Jack 2007 should not know that Claire is his sister, right?[/quote]
    He found out when he was on O6, at his dad’s memorial.[/quote]
    That’s right thank you for that.[/quote]
    Certainly!

    Now…who is 108?

  16. mrs markelz says:

    Who is 108??? More questions? So confused where could this be going

  17. Toeknee says:

    F’in Jack

  18. Ben says:

    So “Christian Sheppard” became Flocke as weve been thinking?

  19. Toeknee says:

    I question Jin’s decision to lie to Claire about Aaron – when Claire finds out Aaron isn’t at the temple, and realizes Jin lied, wouldn’t she try to kill him?

  20. Tasha says:

    I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.

  21. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371071″]I question Jin’s decision to lie to Claire about Aaron – when Claire finds out Aaron isn’t at the temple, and realizes Jin lied, wouldn’t she try to kill him?[/quote]
    I think his plan was to let the templites deal with her…but looks like Flocke is going to give Jin a ride on the ol’ Smokie coaster. Sun reunion not likely…

  22. Lostfan says:

    Des all the way on the ship coming to the island.

    Who do you think is David’s mother? I’m betting in this alternate universe, it’s not Jack’s ex-Sarah.

  23. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371072″]I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.[/quote]
    Wallace? Do we know a Wallace? The kid from The Wire?

  24. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371065″][quote comment=”371060″]Potential continuity issue, Island Jack 2007 should not know that Claire is his sister, right?[/quote]

    I guess this puts to rest the alterna-verse theory, eh? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.[/quote]

    Actually, I take that back. In the adjusted timeline, Jack found out about Claire from his dad’s will.

    : ) P

  25. Amber says:

    Boy am I glad that Hugo gets to see dead Jacob because he is so freakin cute!!! Who is Jacks sons mother??? Didnt Sarah play piano?

  26. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371073″][quote comment=”371071″]I question Jin’s decision to lie to Claire about Aaron – when Claire finds out Aaron isn’t at the temple, and realizes Jin lied, wouldn’t she try to kill him?[/quote]
    I think his plan was to let the templites deal with her…but looks like Flocke is going to give Jin a ride on the ol’ Smokie coaster. Sun reunion not likely…[/quote]
    LOL Smokie coaster.

    Well I’m sure Flocke will attempt to recruit Jin like he did Sawyer, but my guess is Flocke won’t be entirely successful. I’ll be very surprised if we don’t get a made-for-TV Jin-Sun reunion somewhere down the road.

  27. Ben says:

    Why didnt Hurley freak out when he saw the “numbers”

  28. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”371075″][quote comment=”371072″]I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.[/quote]
    Wallace? Do we know a Wallace? The kid from The Wire?[/quote]

    I am not sure how accurate that is yet. Just threw it out there in case someone wants to check into it. I couldn’t see it. Same person said 51 was AUSTEN.

  29. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371079″]Why didnt Hurley freak out when he saw the “numbers”[/quote]

    Well it was ALL numbers, not *just* the special ones.

    : ) P

  30. Toeknee says:

    Seeing Claire deal with the Other (Justin?) made me think we were seeing a replay of what Rousseau’s early years on the island must have been like – setting traps to capture Others, interrogating them about the whereabouts of Alex.

  31. Murphey says:

    [quote comment=”371082″]Seeing Claire deal with the Other (Justin?) made me think we were seeing a replay of what Rousseau’s early years on the island must have been like – setting traps to capture Others, interrogating them about the whereabouts of Alex.[/quote]

    If being claimed is being possessed, maybe Claire has been claimed by Rosseau.

  32. LINS says:

    [quote comment=”371082″]Seeing Claire deal with the Other (Justin?) made me think we were seeing a replay of what Rousseau’s early years on the island must have been like – setting traps to capture Others, interrogating them about the whereabouts of Alex.[/quote]

    Me too, and her capture of Jin was a lot like Rousseau’s capture of Sayid…

  33. Amber says:

    How come Jack doesnt remember his scar? So the mirrows were freaky turns out he has been watching them there whole lives

  34. Enik says:

    Austen is number 51.
    Why do you think her number wasn’t amongst the chosen? 4 8 15 16 23 42

    Maybe she will be part of the next batch of candidates after these have been exhausted.

  35. Murphey says:

    [quote comment=”371085″]How come Jack doesnt remember his scar? So the mirrows were freaky turns out he has been watching them there whole lives[/quote]

    Jack’s appendix was taken out by Juliet on the island in the regular timeline (right?). Maybe there is some interference of his memory from things that are different between the timelines.

  36. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371080″][quote comment=”371075″][quote comment=”371072″]I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.[/quote]
    Wallace? Do we know a Wallace? The kid from The Wire?[/quote]

    I am not sure how accurate that is yet. Just threw it out there in case someone wants to check into it. I couldn’t see it. Same person said 51 was AUSTEN.[/quote]
    Well I’m sure screencaps of all these names and numbers will be poseted somewhere in a matter of hours (maybe minutes), so we’ll get our confirmation (or refutation) soon enough

  37. Murphey says:

    Jacob told Hurley that some people can be told what to do but some have to figure it out for themselves.

    Is that a product of the people’s personality or the role they are too play/ rules?

  38. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”371086″]Austen is number 51.
    Why do you think her number wasn’t amongst the chosen? 4 8 15 16 23 42

    Maybe she will be part of the next batch of candidates after these have been exhausted.[/quote]

    Not sure if it says Austen. All I see is the “sten” but it’s definitely not crossed out.

  39. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371087″]Jack’s appendix was taken out by Juliet on the island in the regular timeline (right?). Maybe there is some interference of his memory from things that are different between the timelines.[/quote]

    Well remember that the detonation reset things in 1977. So that might mean that some how things changed and Jack needed his appendix out as a child.

    : ) P

  40. nancy says:

    jack’s son is news to me…I thought his fiancee was pregnant by an
    other man. Why has he never been mentioned while on the island or when jack and kate returned o the real world with arron?

  41. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371092″]jack’s son is news to me…I thought his fiancee was pregnant by an
    other man. Why has he never been mentioned while on the island or when jack and kate returned o the real world with arron?[/quote]

    This is an adjusted reality. Remember that Desmond was not on the plane in 2004 the last time around, they didn’t land at LA X the other time around. Remember?

    : ) P

  42. Murphey says:

    [quote comment=”371091″][quote comment=”371087″]Jack’s appendix was taken out by Juliet on the island in the regular timeline (right?). Maybe there is some interference of his memory from things that are different between the timelines.[/quote]

    Well remember that the detonation reset things in 1977. So that might mean that some how things changed and Jack needed his appendix out as a child.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Right, I was just theorizing why Jack wouldn’t have remembered when his appendix was taken out and why the writers pointed out to us that he didn’t remember.

  43. freckles says:

    Jack thought that Jacob was watching him his whole life, but what if he was watching his alternate life. Wasn’t Jack at the mother’s house with the will.

  44. Toeknee says:

    Some random thoughts:

    Interesting to see Claire’s scar from when Dogen tested her and determined she was infected.

    Also interesting that Clair referred to Flocke/Smokey as “my friend”, so we still don’t know his name. Is there some reason they keep withholding his name? And, how did he appear to her prior to flight 316 crashing? Not as Christian, right? Because she referred both to her father and to her friend, so it seemed like they are to separate entities.

    What a coincidence that Dogen is in LA too. Seems a bit contrived.

    Aside from that, I really enjoyed the Jack alternate timeline story. Much better than most of his flashbacks from previous seasons. I’d like to see more of that storyline.

    Interesting that most of the Others we saw at the temple tonight seemed to be of Asian descent. In previous seasons there were very few non-white Others.

  45. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”371067″]Who is 108??? More questions? So confused where could this be going[/quote]

    Seems like 108 would have been Hurley because he’s 8 right?

    23 was Sheppard, so he was 123 on the dial.

  46. Lostfan says:

    They purposely didn’t mention David’s mother’s name…if it was Sarah, they would have just said it. I vote for someone else we know. Libby? Kate (is she really innocent now)? Juliet?

    No idea who Wallace is.

  47. Enik says:

    [quote comment=”371088″][quote comment=”371080″][quote comment=”371075″][quote comment=”371072″]I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.[/quote]
    Wallace? Do we know a Wallace? The kid from The Wire?[/quote]

    I am not sure how accurate that is yet. Just threw it out there in case someone wants to check into it. I couldn’t see it. Same person said 51 was AUSTEN.[/quote]
    Well I’m sure screencaps of all these names and numbers will be poseted somewhere in a matter of hours (maybe minutes), so we’ll get our confirmation (or refutation) soon enough[/quote]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.

  48. Hammer says:

    Toeknee, agree that Dogen in LA could be contrived since I think he has been on the island a long time. But I guess they were supposed to meet (WHH) so Dogen in LA is course correction.

  49. Amber says:

    When Jack went to his sons house when he was at the door was the house number 23 I thought I seen it when he was unlocking the door

  50. Jeff says:

    what i found to be interesting was when jin was in claires hut and claire mentioned to jin that she knew that the people in the temple took her baby because “her father (jacks father) and her friend” told her so. so I’m guessing that when they first crashed on the island the black smog first took over jack and claires fathers body (hence why jack kept on seeing his father on the island and he wasnt in his coffin) and now has taken over lockes body. Also recall that when claire disappeared, and left aaron in the woods. Locke found the old cabin out in the woods and inside was jacks father and claire. Thoughts?

  51. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371101″]When Jack went to his sons house when he was at the door was the house number 23 I thought I seen it when he was unlocking the door[/quote]
    It was 233

  52. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.

  53. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371100″]Toeknee, agree that Dogen in LA could be contrived since I think he has been on the island a long time. But I guess they were supposed to meet (WHH) so Dogen in LA is course correction.[/quote]
    Oh sure I know they’re going for course correction and whatnot. A lot of it has felt somewhat natural and believable, but this one seemed a little more jarring. Maybe in the end there will be a logical explanation as to why all the erstwhile Others (Ethan, Ben, Dogen) are in LA?

  54. Ben says:

    Jeff- Locke was in his coffin though. Somehome this is different than the Christian Sheppard thing.

  55. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371098″]They purposely didn’t mention David’s mother’s name…if it was Sarah, they would have just said it. I vote for someone else we know. Libby? Kate (is she really innocent now)? Juliet?[/quote]

    It couldn’t have been Kate. He saw Kate in the elevator a couple of “days ago” when they landed in LA X. Unless they were pretending not to know each other.

    : ) P

  56. Larla says:

    [quote comment=”371101″]When Jack went to his sons house when he was at the door was the house number 23 I thought I seen it when he was unlocking the door[/quote]

    I noticed that the key was under a “white rabbit” on the front porch of David’s mother’s house. Interesting since this ep mirrored “White Rabbit” in season 1.

  57. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371105″][quote comment=”371100″]Toeknee, agree that Dogen in LA could be contrived since I think he has been on the island a long time. But I guess they were supposed to meet (WHH) so Dogen in LA is course correction.[/quote]
    Oh sure I know they’re going for course correction and whatnot. A lot of it has felt somewhat natural and believable, but this one seemed a little more jarring. Maybe in the end there will be a logical explanation as to why all the erstwhile Others (Ethan, Ben, Dogen) are in LA?[/quote]
    ++++++
    That’s if you believe in destiny. I don’t think WHH applies anymore.

  58. Lola says:

    sure hope Hurley’s joke about the skeletons (flashing back to dinosaur times) wasn’t all the explanation we’re going to get.

  59. mrs markelz says:

    [quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…

  60. Lola says:

    [quote comment=”371111″][quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…[/quote]

    i thought the first image was a ship…watching it again, i’ll let you know…so do we know who wallace is?

  61. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment=”371112″][quote comment=”371111″][quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…[/quote]

    i thought the first image was a ship…watching it again, i’ll let you know…so do we know who wallace is?[/quote]
    I think the church was where Jacob met Sawyer. also saw oriental temple where jacob met the Jin&Sun and then Jacks house

  62. Lola says:

    [quote comment=”371112″][quote comment=”371111″][quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…[/quote]

    i thought the first image was a ship…watching it again, i’ll let you know…so do we know who wallace is?[/quote]

    i was wrong, not a ship but not necessarily a church either…looked like japanese architecture, tried to see name, about 4 after Linus, couldn’t make it out…@nd image COULD have been a steeple…

  63. Mr. $tuart says:

    Why does a rich spinal surgeon drive a P.O.S.?

  64. Lola says:

    meant 2nd not @nd…also never saw 51 austen?

  65. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371110″]sure hope Hurley’s joke about the skeletons (flashing back to dinosaur times) wasn’t all the explanation we’re going to get.[/quote]
    I think Hugo all but confirmed that Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve. Dinosaur days? No…but I think that was hint that the ’70s was long enough ago for the skeletons to be “us”. Dang….I wanted it to be Des and Penny.

  66. Murphey says:

    Sawyer didn’t appear to be with FLocke when he joined Claire, but maybe he will meet them at the temple.

    Sayid is the only Lostie still left at the temple, right? Sun might be on her way there as well.

  67. Dave says:

    Jacks number is 23, 23rd psalm: the Lord is my Shepherd. Jacks last name is Shepherd although I think it is spelled differently. And all the scars look the same, even jacks appendix scar. Just some observations.

  68. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371118″]Sawyer didn’t appear to be with FLocke when he joined Claire, but maybe he will meet them at the temple.

    Sayid is the only Lostie still left at the temple, right? Sun might be on her way there as well.[/quote]
    I’m guessing that MIB needs to get them all together/dead (the six numbers) to do his thing. Jacob has two of them away from the temple. He told Hugo that he’s sorry but it’s too late to go to the temple. To me, that means the ash can’t stop MIB and everyone at the temple are goners.

  69. freckles says:

    Did Jacob want Jack to break the mirrors? What is he trying to get Jack to realize? you guys know more than me.

  70. Jake says:

    re: 65
    How does the dinosaur comment confirm Bernard and Rose?

    Re: 67
    Don’t assume all are gone at the temple. I think they just wouldn’t be able to get there in time to warn them, that’s all.

    Good episode. A little slow at times, but lots of great pieces of info.
    I think Jack’s ex is the same ex, just that they had a kid in this alt reality.

  71. Jake says:

    Not sure whether Jacob wanted Jack to break the mirrors, but he either doesn’t care or he looks at it as collateral damage to eventually convincing Jack (through semi-free will) of what to do. Also, he needed to get them away from the Temple.

  72. sector7 says:

    Here’s what I take from this ep:
    Jacob = Obi-Wan
    Jack = Luke
    Claire = Leia
    Christian = Darth Vader
    Smokie/UnLocke = Emperor

  73. Ben says:

    Jack’s wife “Sarah” is currently one of the wives on Modern Family. Maybe she was unavailable.

  74. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371122″]re: 65
    How does the dinosaur comment confirm Bernard and Rose?

    Re: 67
    Don’t assume all are gone at the temple. I think they just wouldn’t be able to get there in time to warn them, that’s all.

    Good episode. A little slow at times, but lots of great pieces of info.
    I think Jack’s ex is the same ex, just that they had a kid in this alt reality.[/quote]
    @ 65, I took it as a HINT.
    @ 67, just sayin’

  75. party dude says:

    about clair

    *paranoid
    *axe-wielding hatred of men
    *wild darting eyes
    *hair and hygiene from hobo town
    *has a “sickness”
    *her friend (only visits once a month)

    come on people. thatz classic PMS. ladies ucan confirm this.

  76. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371124″]Here’s what I take from this ep:
    Jacob = Obi-Wan
    Jack = Luke
    Claire = Leia
    Christian = Darth Vader
    Smokie/UnLocke = Emperor[/quote]
    Awesome!

  77. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371118″]Sayid is the only Lostie still left at the temple, right? Sun might be on her way there as well.[/quote]

    Miles is there, or should be. Some might not consider him a LOSTie, but he is a former time traveler, etc.

    : ) P

  78. Ben says:

    In season 4 when Ben had Sayid killing people who “were on Jacob’s lists” are those people who had numbers?

  79. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371130″]In season 4 when Ben had Sayid killing people who “were on Jacob’s lists” are those people who had numbers?[/quote]
    I think yes…I think pretty much everyone that Jacob brought to the island has a number.

  80. Hammer says:

    Bed time for Bonzo:

    Is Wallace the blonde boy MIB is freaking out about?

  81. DaveN says:

    I’m not sure about this Wallace thing…but I haven’t read this anywhere on this thread (though maybe it’s not new to anyone):

    108 is the sum of 4,8,15,16,23,42

  82. freckles says:

    [quote comment=”371127″]about clair

    *paranoid
    *axe-wielding hatred of men
    *wild darting eyes
    *hair and hygiene from hobo town
    *has a “sickness”
    *her friend (only visits once a month)

    come on people. thatz classic PMS. ladies ucan confirm this.[/quote]

    I totally agree…. love it! She thinks her kid is a beast too.

  83. wally p freeley says:

    So, Hurley needed to bring Jack along, because Jack needed to see the lighthouse. Without Hurley Jack wouldn’t have been able to see it- …someone mentioned in the last thread the episode with Hurleys imaginary friend (was it Dave?) in season 2. Dave would have been the MIB for sure, but Jacob is real. Hurley is a see’r right? He saw the cabin. Perhaps only certain people could see MIB before? I dont think Kate ever saw anyone?

    Claire refering to “her friend” I don’t think so much as shows shes possessed, as much as shows that she really has “the darkness” in her. She might still think that Christian was her father, but she knows that Locke isnt Locke… he probably described himself as “not locke, but a friend.” Sayid is a few steps away from a similar fate… But does this mean that Rousseau had the darkness too? In a lot of ways it seemed to me like she seemed to reject it, as she helped the losties,,, but hey, who knows…

  84. freckles says:

    When Dogan caught Hurley by the hieroglyphs and Jacob appeared, he didn’t seem to want Hurley to say he was there. why aren’t the others making a big deal of Hurley since he said Jacob told him to come and had the guitar case from him?

  85. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371133″]I’m not sure about this Wallace thing…but I haven’t read this anywhere on this thread (though maybe it’s not new to anyone):

    108 is the sum of 4,8,15,16,23,42[/quote]
    There is a thread from a couple years back regarding the numbers and possible theories, the most prominent is the Valenzetti equation. It makes for some interesting reading.

    http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/4-8-15-16-23-42-the-numbers-explained

  86. LostJunkie says:

    If it is Wallace that was the name, could Walt’s real name be Wallace? Just throwing that out there.

    I thought that this was another very good episode, making it two in a row. And there’s been very little of Kate in the last two. And the second episode of this season was one of the worst in the entire series. Coincidence?

    Just sayin’.

  87. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371114″][quote comment=”371112″][quote comment=”371111″][quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…[/quote]

    i thought the first image was a ship…watching it again, i’ll let you know…so do we know who wallace is?[/quote]

    i was wrong, not a ship but not necessarily a church either…looked like japanese architecture, tried to see name, about 4 after Linus, couldn’t make it out…@nd image COULD have been a steeple…[/quote]
    I saw the same Japanese architecture first then a steeple looking building after. After watching it again the name Wallace appears to be crossed out.

  88. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment=”371138″]If it is Wallace that was the name, could Walt’s real name be Wallace? Just throwing that out there.

    I thought that this was another very good episode, making it two in a row. And there’s been very little of Kate in the last two. And the second episode of this season was one of the worst in the entire series. Coincidence?

    Just sayin’.[/quote]

    Naw, it wouldn’t be Walt because I think they have been using only last names when we’ve seen candidates mentioned. I course-corrected myself LOL.

  89. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371138″]If it is Wallace that was the name, could Walt’s real name be Wallace? Just throwing that out there.
    [/quote]
    I don’t think so because all the other names are their last names. Was someone we know using an alias or is it an entirely new character?

  90. fate says:

    heres my take… what were seeing now on the island is actually a flashback and what we think is the “flash sideways” is actually the present. the island will be left underwater as we saw it in the first episode of this season.

  91. LostJunkie says:

    Throwing another thought out there for the mother of Jack’s child (David) in the alt. timeline…

    Ana Lucia anyone?

  92. jonesyutah says:

    MasterPo said “I could also be that time doesn’t flow the same on the island as it does in the outside world. A super strong magnetic source, strong enough to shield the island, might also be strong enough to warp time.”

    I think that an evil force is upon the island. And every effort has been taken to protect the rest of the world from this evil. Trapped on the island by some unknown power smokie draws interest from corporations and modern governments testing how they might exploit it as a weapon. I Think it all dates back to the Egyptions. Many have been brought to the island as a consequence of a battle that has been going on there since the time the island was created. Each side of the battle looks to use the people as pawns in a game. Jacob v. Smokie. Smokies goal: to get off the island and kill or enslave all mankind. Jacob’s goal to stop that from happening. Smokie can not be killed, Jacob passes the torch to the next guardian. and on an on. The next guardian will begin to prepare new candidates for his or her replacement in the future when he/she dies.

  93. Toeknee says:

    FWIW, this was the 108th episode of Lost

  94. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371143″]Throwing another thought out there for the mother of Jack’s child (David) in the alt. timeline…

    Ana Lucia anyone?[/quote]

    Ana Lucia, that’s a good guess… I was thinking that it was that Italian lady, mostly because I find it hard to believe that the son of Jack and Sara would have such dark hair and unique facial features… come to think of it, he sort of looks like the Italian lady, but could also pass as Ana Lucia’s son too.

    Another thought on it being the Italian mother – Jack told Locke that nothing is impossible. Italian lady believed that Jack could do miracles.. maybe he saved her father this time around.

    Another reason I think David’s mother is not Sara – Didn’t Sara crash with someone we know? I forget who it was that she got in the accident with, but I do remember that there was some obscure connection to the Losties group, and that in the alternate timeline with the island not being an issue, this accident probably would not have happened. The car accident is what brought Sara and Jack together…

  95. Lind says:

    Another thought about the numbers – it seems as if Jacob has all but exhausted his list of candidates. The only ones left are the Losties and #108… that must be what he means about “it only happens once, up until then is just progress’…

    He likely has had many chances for a successor, but they all died, so his only hope now is this last batch. I guess this is the one time that matters – if he doesn’t succeed now, it’s all over for him. The pressure is on to get it right this time.

  96. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”371095″]Jack thought that Jacob was watching him his whole life, but what if he was watching his alternate life. Wasn’t Jack at the mother’s house with the will.[/quote]

    Ooh… That’s an interesting theory. Darlton says this sideways universe is not an “alternate” (or separate) universe, and that it all is connected to the island world. Which is what’s driving me nuts. So it would be interesting if Jack was somehow seeing his location at that time in sideways world.

    Of course, why was the Sun/Jin temple also seen? And I could have sworn that the image he first saw was a church spire. So… I dunno…

    I wish Jack hadn’t destroyed the damned thing before we got some more answers!! I started yelling at the screen as soon as he picked up that piece of wood.

  97. LostGrrl says:

    Just wondering about that short scene with Jack and Kate. As this is the last season, I would assume there are no wasted scenes. But I can’t think of anything we learned from that scene that we didn’t know already. Seems like just another chance for them to make googly eyes before going their separate ways (again).

  98. LostGrrl says:

    Does anyone know the significance of what Jacob told Hurley to say to Jack, to make come: “You have what it takes.”

    That made Jack’s eyes bulge out, but I can’t remember hearing it before.

  99. LostGrrl says:

    Shannon’s asthma inhaler? By the old water cave, so that we could visit with Adam and Eve again? Can’t see the significance yet.

  100. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment=”371107″][quote comment=”371098″]They purposely didn’t mention David’s mother’s name…if it was Sarah, they would have just said it. I vote for someone else we know. Libby? Kate (is she really innocent now)? Juliet?[/quote]

    It couldn’t have been Kate. He saw Kate in the elevator a couple of “days ago” when they landed in LA X. Unless they were pretending not to know each other.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Good point.

  101. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment=”371150″]Does anyone know the significance of what Jacob told Hurley to say to Jack, to make come: “You have what it takes.”

    That made Jack’s eyes bulge out, but I can’t remember hearing it before.[/quote]
    Christian told Jack that he “didn’t have what it takes” after he had a fight when Jack was a child.

  102. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment=”371150″]Does anyone know the significance of what Jacob told Hurley to say to Jack, to make come: “You have what it takes.”

    That made Jack’s eyes bulge out, but I can’t remember hearing it before.[/quote]

    Jack’s father had told him all his life that Jack didn’t have what it takes….

  103. Skate says:

    [quote comment=”371146″][quote comment=”371143″]Throwing another thought out there for the mother of Jack’s child (David) in the alt. timeline…

    Ana Lucia anyone?[/quote]

    Ana Lucia, that’s a good guess… I was thinking that it was that Italian lady, mostly because I find it hard to believe that the son of Jack and Sara would have such dark hair and unique facial features… come to think of it, he sort of looks like the Italian lady, but could also pass as Ana Lucia’s son too.

    Another thought on it being the Italian mother – Jack told Locke that nothing is impossible. Italian lady believed that Jack could do miracles.. maybe he saved her father this time around.

    Another reason I think David’s mother is not Sara – Didn’t Sara crash with someone we know? I forget who it was that she got in the accident with, but I do remember that there was some obscure connection to the Losties group, and that in the alternate timeline with the island not being an issue, this accident probably would not have happened. The car accident is what brought Sara and Jack together…[/quote]

    If my memory is correct, Sarah was in an accident that killed Shannon and Boone’s father.

  104. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment=”371146″][quote comment=”371143″]Throwing another thought out there for the mother of Jack’s child (David) in the alt. timeline…

    Ana Lucia anyone?[/quote]

    Ana Lucia, that’s a good guess… I was thinking that it was that Italian lady, mostly because I find it hard to believe that the son of Jack and Sara would have such dark hair and unique facial features… come to think of it, he sort of looks like the Italian lady, but could also pass as Ana Lucia’s son too.

    Another thought on it being the Italian mother – Jack told Locke that nothing is impossible. Italian lady believed that Jack could do miracles.. maybe he saved her father this time around.

    Another reason I think David’s mother is not Sara – Didn’t Sara crash with someone we know? I forget who it was that she got in the accident with, but I do remember that there was some obscure connection to the Losties group, and that in the alternate timeline with the island not being an issue, this accident probably would not have happened. The car accident is what brought Sara and Jack together…[/quote]

    I think the fact that David has dark hair only confirms that he looks like Jack. A blonde mother wouldn’t make a difference – as the dark hair would most likely dominate anyway. I think the Italian lady would be a disappointment – and certainly not worth withholding. Ana Lucia is interesting since in the original time line, she was in Sydney with Christian and would have been on the plane. But it’s all different now.

  105. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371089″]Jacob told Hurley that some people can be told what to do but some have to figure it out for themselves.

    Is that a product of the people’s personality or the role they are too play/ rules?[/quote]
    Not sure…but it’s not the first time Jacob said something like that. We he met Jack in the hospital to ‘touch’ him and offered is Apollo candy bar, he said “Maybe it just needed a little push.” which was a metaphor for Jack needing prodding. A theme or a rule or both?

  106. rodt says:

    The significance of 108. All the numbers (4,8,15,16,23,42) add up to 108. What do you think that means?

  107. DBM says:

    I rarely post, but my wife mentioned this to me and I thought it was interesting. We’ve seen a giant statue & a lighthouse. The Colossus of Rhodes and Lighthouse at Alexandria were both Wonders of the Ancient World. I know very little about this part of history, but would love to know if anyone else (perhaps someone with more knowledge of these things and the myths surrounding them) thinks there’s something worthy of pursuing with this line of thinking…

  108. LostGrrl says:

    Okay, it’s been 12 hours since the show aired. Anyone have a link to screen shots of the numbers in the lighthouse?

  109. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371161″]Okay, it’s been 12 hours since the show aired. Anyone have a link to screen shots of the numbers in the lighthouse?[/quote]

    http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

  110. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371148″][quote comment=”371095″]Jack thought that Jacob was watching him his whole life, but what if he was watching his alternate life. Wasn’t Jack at the mother’s house with the will.[/quote]

    Ooh… That’s an interesting theory. Darlton says this sideways universe is not an “alternate” (or separate) universe, and that it all is connected to the island world. Which is what’s driving me nuts. So it would be interesting if Jack was somehow seeing his location at that time in sideways world.

    Of course, why was the Sun/Jin temple also seen? And I could have sworn that the image he first saw was a church spire. So… I dunno…

    I wish Jack hadn’t destroyed the damned thing before we got some more answers!! I started yelling at the screen as soon as he picked up that piece of wood.[/quote]

    I was thinking that maybe, since it was Jack’s childhood home that was in focus, maybe Jacob hasn’t only been watching Jack, but Christian also…

  111. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371139″][quote comment=”371114″][quote comment=”371112″][quote comment=”371111″][quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…[/quote]

    i thought the first image was a ship…watching it again, i’ll let you know…so do we know who wallace is?[/quote]

    i was wrong, not a ship but not necessarily a church either…looked like japanese architecture, tried to see name, about 4 after Linus, couldn’t make it out…@nd image COULD have been a steeple…[/quote]
    I saw the same Japanese architecture first then a steeple looking building after. After watching it again the name Wallace appears to be crossed out.[/quote]
    I think we saw more than just Jack’s house because the pointer passed Kwon (42), etc. So we likely saw what was being monitored for several people as Jack was watching them go by…then he wanted to go back to his number to see what was there for him.

    Wallace being crossed out could still be RBB (running blonde boy). Linus is crossed out, but is still alive and on the island….

  112. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”371059″]Either Widmore or Des is on the way.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I’m thinking Des. I think the significance of 108 degrees, besides the main numbers adding up to 108, is that Des is connected to them somehow.

  113. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371165″][quote comment=”371059″]Either Widmore or Des is on the way.[/quote]
    __________________________________
    I’m thinking Des. I think the significance of 108 degrees, besides the main numbers adding up to 108, is that Des is connected to them somehow.[/quote]
    Yeah, Jacob said ‘they’ would find the island somehow. Eloise said the island wasn’t done with him yet…

  114. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment=”371152″][quote comment=”371107″][quote comment=”371098″]They purposely didn’t mention David’s mother’s name…if it was Sarah, they would have just said it. I vote for someone else we know. Libby? Kate (is she really innocent now)? Juliet?[/quote]

    It couldn’t have been Kate. He saw Kate in the elevator a couple of “days ago” when they landed in LA X. Unless they were pretending not to know each other.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Good point.[/quote]

    IF memory serves me right Jack never saw Kate in an elevator at LAX…it was Sawyer in the elevator, but either way i dont think Kate is Davids mother, because of his age (pre-teen) i dont think his mother is anyone we would know yet..I also dont think its Sarah because she was engaged to another man at the time of her accident,

    On another note…if you look at the screen caps for the light house, to me it looks like numbers 56 and 57 are not crossed out, although I cant make out the names…I could be wrong though

  115. Leslie says:

    [quote comment=”371150″]Does anyone know the significance of what Jacob told Hurley to say to Jack, to make come: “You have what it takes.”

    That made Jack’s eyes bulge out, but I can’t remember hearing it before.[/quote]

    Jack said his father always told him “YOU DON’T HAVE WHAT IT TAKES”

  116. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371167″][quote comment=”371152″][quote comment=”371107″][quote comment=”371098″]They purposely didn’t mention David’s mother’s name…if it was Sarah, they would have just said it. I vote for someone else we know. Libby? Kate (is she really innocent now)? Juliet?[/quote]

    It couldn’t have been Kate. He saw Kate in the elevator a couple of “days ago” when they landed in LA X. Unless they were pretending not to know each other.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Good point.[/quote]

    IF memory serves me right Jack never saw Kate in an elevator at LAX…it was Sawyer in the elevator, but either way i dont think Kate is Davids mother, because of his age (pre-teen) i dont think his mother is anyone we would know yet..I also dont think its Sarah because she was engaged to another man at the time of her accident,

    On another note…if you look at the screen caps for the light house, to me it looks like numbers 56 and 57 are not crossed out, although I cant make out the names…I could be wrong though[/quote]
    Jack saw Kate trying to get a cab.

    57 looks crossed out to me, 56 is a maybe…but likely crossed out.

  117. Leslie says:

    [quote comment=”371093″][quote comment=”371092″]jack’s son is news to me…I thought his fiancee was pregnant by an
    other man. Why has he never been mentioned while on the island or when jack and kate returned o the real world with arron?[/quote]

    This is an adjusted reality. Remember that Desmond was not on the plane in 2004 the last time around, they didn’t land at LA X the other time around. Remember?

    : ) P[/quote]
    My take of the whole thing was not necesarily that Jack’s son is a result of the alternate reality–we were just never told the Jack DIDN’T have a son. A divorced, non-custodial dad would most likely not have the kid around much. It was a fun surprise though.

  118. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371138″]If it is Wallace that was the name, could Walt’s real name be Wallace? Just throwing that out there.[/quote]

    As L4E already pointed out, they’ve been using last names… so what if it is Libby? (I know she is dead in the original timeline.) Olivia? Any other characters whose last names we do not know?

    : ) P

  119. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371167″]
    IF memory serves me right Jack never saw Kate in an elevator at LAX…it was Sawyer in the elevator, but either way i dont think Kate is Davids mother, because of his age (pre-teen) i dont think his mother is anyone we would know yet..I also dont think its Sarah because she was engaged to another man at the time of her accident,[/quote]

    Sorry, I was wrong. It wasn’t outside the elevator, it was outside the airplane bathroom (small enclosed space – makes sense I would mix them up though I promise I have never peed in an elevator). I remember because Kate stole Jack’s pen, which she later tried to use to escape the handcuffs in the airport bathroom.

    : ) P

  120. Lind says:

    Looks like a CrazyClaire and SupertoughKate catfight is on the way…

  121. wallyp says:

    Is Jacks sons last name Shephard?

  122. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371174″]Is Jacks sons last name Shephard?[/quote]
    Hmmmm…David Wallace?

  123. meriah says:

    David Wallace is a character from The Office. hehe just sayin..

  124. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371171″][quote comment=”371138″]If it is Wallace that was the name, could Walt’s real name be Wallace? Just throwing that out there.[/quote]

    As L4E already pointed out, they’ve been using last names… so what if it is Libby? (I know she is dead in the original timeline.) Olivia? Any other characters whose last names we do not know?

    : ) P[/quote]
    Any chance Wallace is MIB?

  125. Lind says:

    Before the dial shows 110, doesn’t Jack see a location in the mirror? This is likely the abode of Wallace… is this the church steeple that everyone is talking about? Does anyone have a screen shot of this?

  126. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371178″]Before the dial shows 110, doesn’t Jack see a location in the mirror? This is likely the abode of Wallace… is this the church steeple that everyone is talking about? Does anyone have a screen shot of this?[/quote]

    http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

  127. cesco says:

    Does anyone think it is odd that SHEPHARD is written in all caps, and by the looks of it by another person?

  128. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371180″]Does anyone think it is odd that SHEPHARD is written in all caps, and by the looks of it by another person?[/quote]
    Well Jarrah is in all caps except the h. They are both written darker too. I think it was just to bring out attention to the names…but who knows.

    FTR, many of the names have mixed upper and lower case.

  129. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371181″][quote comment=”371180″]Does anyone think it is odd that SHEPHARD is written in all caps, and by the looks of it by another person?[/quote]
    Well Jarrah is in all caps except the h. They are both written darker too. I think it was just to bring out attention to the names…but who knows.

    FTR, many of the names have mixed upper and lower case.[/quote]
    Kwon and Ford are all caps too.

  130. Aonghus Fallon says:

    (1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.

    (2) What they do on the island at this juncture in its timeline will affect future events.

    (3) In this future, the lives of their future selves turned out differently as a result of their actions on the island in the current season- this is aside from the fact that in this timeline the plane never crashed. Thus Jack has a son etc etc.

    I’m guessing there will be a crude form of poetic justice involved. Thus, you do the right thing on the island, then your future self has a good life, the wrong thing and he/she has a lousy life.

    Strictly speaking this isn’t a parallel reality, as both sets of characters are inhabiting the same timeline.

    Still say I’m right about Smokey – but naturally everybody (including me) is entitled to their opinion.

  131. Lostfan says:

    Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??

  132. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment=”371183″](1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.

    (2) What they do on the island at this juncture in its timeline will affect future events.

    (3) In this future, the lives of their future selves turned out differently as a result of their actions on the island in the current season- this is aside from the fact that in this timeline the plane never crashed. Thus Jack has a son etc etc.

    I’m guessing there will be a crude form of poetic justice involved. Thus, you do the right thing on the island, then your future self has a good life, the wrong thing and he/she has a lousy life.

    Strictly speaking this isn’t a parallel reality, as both sets of characters are inhabiting the same timeline.

    Still say I’m right about Smokey – but naturally everybody (including me) is entitled to their opinion.[/quote]

    Very interesting theory. It would also support Hurley’s comment about the time traveling all the way back to the dinosaur age and Adam and Eve being them. The flash could have happened when the bomb went off and they all went back in time.

    The only problem is Crazy Claire living there for three years. All her Rousseauesque stuff that she built wouldn’t be there yet.

  133. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371184″]Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??[/quote]
    Another thought, is Aaron being raised in LA by the Wallace’s? Hmmmm? Making him blonde boy Wallace no. 108?

  134. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371184″]Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??[/quote]

    Interesting thought. Before we all learned that 108 was Wallace, I was thinking Aaron too… but I think his last name is now Austen, given that Kate wouldn’t have wanted to raise red flags when she returned to LA with Aaron in tow. However, now that Aaron is with Claire’s mother, maybe she decided to change his name… maybe Wallace is her maiden name?

  135. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371186″][quote comment=”371184″]Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??[/quote]
    Another thought, is Aaron being raised in LA by the Wallace’s? Hmmmm? Making him blonde boy Wallace no. 108?[/quote]
    But then again, Wallace is crossed out. So am I leaning towards Wallace being MIB for now.

  136. Lind says:

    So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle? They are clearly both affected by the same “illness”… but exactly how, and what is the “illness”?

    We know that Claire went through the same ordeal as Sayid, a la being reborn in the temple… though we don’t know WHY this is a bad thing, WHY this claims people. How exaclty the MIB influences TempleFountain matters is a mystery in itself…

    But we are pretty sure that this same thing never happened to Danielle. I think it’s safe to assume that she has never been to the temple, and has had limited direct contact with the Others. So was she infected by the crew she was with? They seemed to have the same mentality of Claire… the dreamy eyes, the vindiction that Smokey is wonderful “my friend” and “he’s the good guy (whatever the French crew said)”.

    However, if Danielle was affected in the same way, she never seemed to talk about Smokey in the same way. All she ever said about it was that it was a security system… and she never had those dreamy eyes. But maybe we just never witnessed it.

    If, therefore, she was affected by this illness (as we are to believe), then just how did she “catch” it? Danielle never seemed capable of infecting others, Claire doesn’t seem to be able to… but Danielle seemed to have caught it from her friends! Odd.

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.

  137. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371188″][quote comment=”371186″][quote comment=”371184″]Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??[/quote]
    Another thought, is Aaron being raised in LA by the Wallace’s? Hmmmm? Making him blonde boy Wallace no. 108?[/quote]
    But then again, Wallace is crossed out. So am I leaning towards Wallace being MIB for now.[/quote]

    I just don’t quite understand why MIB would need to be “summoned” to the island, though… and why he would have been a candidate

  138. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371190″][quote comment=”371188″][quote comment=”371186″][quote comment=”371184″]Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??[/quote]
    Another thought, is Aaron being raised in LA by the Wallace’s? Hmmmm? Making him blonde boy Wallace no. 108?[/quote]
    But then again, Wallace is crossed out. So am I leaning towards Wallace being MIB for now.[/quote]

    I just don’t quite understand why MIB would need to be “summoned” to the island, though… and why he would have been a candidate[/quote]
    Since it’s a loose theory:

    MIB may have been summoned to run the island (or some other purpose for that matter)like everyone else, went rogue, became ‘trapped’ on the island, and is now doing his thing (loophole) to be ‘free’.

  139. Da says:

    This episode would have been better if Jack saw his childhood home being torched by Orcs…

  140. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371101″]When Jack went to his sons house when he was at the door was the house number 23 I thought I seen it when he was unlocking the door[/quote]
    The house number was 233.

  141. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371189″]So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle? They are clearly both affected by the same “illness”… but exactly how, and what is the “illness”?

    We know that Claire went through the same ordeal as Sayid, a la being reborn in the temple… though we don’t know WHY this is a bad thing, WHY this claims people. How exaclty the MIB influences TempleFountain matters is a mystery in itself…

    But we are pretty sure that this same thing never happened to Danielle. I think it’s safe to assume that she has never been to the temple, and has had limited direct contact with the Others. So was she infected by the crew she was with? They seemed to have the same mentality of Claire… the dreamy eyes, the vindiction that Smokey is wonderful “my friend” and “he’s the good guy (whatever the French crew said)”.

    However, if Danielle was affected in the same way, she never seemed to talk about Smokey in the same way. All she ever said about it was that it was a security system… and she never had those dreamy eyes. But maybe we just never witnessed it.

    If, therefore, she was affected by this illness (as we are to believe), then just how did she “catch” it? Danielle never seemed capable of infecting others, Claire doesn’t seem to be able to… but Danielle seemed to have caught it from her friends! Odd.

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]
    You are assuming Claire got dunked in the fountain. I do not. I think Claire was infected some other way (shortly after her house blew up). I think the Others took her to the temple for testing and she failed. As Dogen said about Sayid, the infected person has to take the pill willingly…so she’s off being friends with MIB.

  142. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371194″][quote comment=”371189″]So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle?
    ….

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]

    You are assuming Claire got dunked in the fountain. I do not. I think Claire was infected some other way (shortly after her house blew up). I think the Others took her to the temple for testing and she failed. As Dogen said about Sayid, the infected person has to take the pill willingly…so she’s off being friends with MIB.[/quote]

    Ahhh… that makes more sense. I just figured they gave her the usual Temple treatment.. but you are right, she likely was not brought there dead.

    So how does one become infected? And why does it lead to trap setting and knowledge of explosives?

  143. WTF says:

    Adding to the speculation of David’s mother….
    I just read this on another blog and thought it an intriguing suggestion….

    Could Jacks wife and Davids mother be Juliet?

  144. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371187″][quote comment=”371184″]Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??[/quote]

    Interesting thought. Before we all learned that 108 was Wallace, I was thinking Aaron too… but I think his last name is now Austen, given that Kate wouldn’t have wanted to raise red flags when she returned to LA with Aaron in tow. However, now that Aaron is with Claire’s mother, maybe she decided to change his name… maybe Wallace is her maiden name?[/quote]

    I am under the impression that “NOW” Aaron is with Claire in the sideways. I like that line of thinking. But I could see his name being Austen when he was with Kate,,, it would have had to have been (although I think Hurley discovered that the whole scenario was all wrong- the Oceanic 6 never should have went back…)

    On the other hand, Claire is looking for her baby again on the island (I assume a result of darkness), Most likely to kill him, so Aaron getting off the island could still hold a much deeper meaning…

  145. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”371195″][quote comment=”371194″][quote comment=”371189″]So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle?
    ….

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]

    You are assuming Claire got dunked in the fountain. I do not. I think Claire was infected some other way (shortly after her house blew up). I think the Others took her to the temple for testing and she failed. As Dogen said about Sayid, the infected person has to take the pill willingly…so she’s off being friends with MIB.[/quote]

    Ahhh… that makes more sense. I just figured they gave her the usual Temple treatment.. but you are right, she likely was not brought there dead.

    So how does one become infected? And why does it lead to trap setting and knowledge of explosives?[/quote]

    Not sure I agree. The scar on her arm is proof she was “tested,” but why would you think she wasn’t dunked first, as Sayid was? Perhaps that is why she doesn’t remember correctly — that she was near death, they dunked her, and the pool did not act as the Temple people expected, so they “tested” her.

  146. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371195″][quote comment=”371194″][quote comment=”371189″]So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle?
    ….

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]

    You are assuming Claire got dunked in the fountain. I do not. I think Claire was infected some other way (shortly after her house blew up). I think the Others took her to the temple for testing and she failed. As Dogen said about Sayid, the infected person has to take the pill willingly…so she’s off being friends with MIB.[/quote]

    Ahhh… that makes more sense. I just figured they gave her the usual Temple treatment.. but you are right, she likely was not brought there dead.

    So how does one become infected? And why does it lead to trap setting and knowledge of explosives?[/quote]
    LOL @ traps and explosives. We’ll see about Sayid.

  147. PJSander says:

    Maybe the reflection in the mirror is Jack’s childhood home because the Shepherd on the dial is GrandDad Ray?

    : ) P

  148. Miss lost says:

    I haven’t seen anyone comment on this yet so i thought I would throw it out there. After I saw the lighthouse with the same names and numbers i thought about the cave. IMO the cave is MIB’s not Jacobs. I think he also writes down the names and numbers so he either knows who he needs to eliminate or get on his side?
    And one more question/comment. Do you think there is a significance to the 4 mirrors. We have seen the past(flash backs) the present, the future (FF) and now this alternative present (FS)? Do you think there is a connection…they could represent each time being presented. Just a thought.

  149. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment=”371201″]Do you think there is a significance to the 4 mirrors. We have seen the past(flash backs) the present, the future (FF) and now this alternative present (FS)? Do you think there is a connection…they could represent each time being presented. Just a thought.[/quote]

    Love it! As good a theory as any. Now we just need to figure out how it’s related.

  150. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371197″][quote comment=”371187″][quote comment=”371184″]Here’s a thought…what about Aaron’s last name? Who’s to say that he took Claire’s name? What was her boyfriend’s last name??[/quote]

    Interesting thought. Before we all learned that 108 was Wallace, I was thinking Aaron too… but I think his last name is now Austen, given that Kate wouldn’t have wanted to raise red flags when she returned to LA with Aaron in tow. However, now that Aaron is with Claire’s mother, maybe she decided to change his name… maybe Wallace is her maiden name?[/quote]

    I am under the impression that “NOW” Aaron is with Claire in the sideways. I like that line of thinking. But I could see his name being Austen when he was with Kate,,, it would have had to have been (although I think Hurley discovered that the whole scenario was all wrong- the Oceanic 6 never should have went back…)

    On the other hand, Claire is looking for her baby again on the island (I assume a result of darkness), Most likely to kill him, so Aaron getting off the island could still hold a much deeper meaning…[/quote]
    *****************

    I think it is also intereting that Kate had a dream in which Claire came to her and said NOT to bring Aaron back to the island.
    so was that Claire as we know her wanting to protect Aaron b/c she was infected and knew it was not safe to bring him back.

    Or did MIB have something to do with it…does he know that Aaron poses a threat to him and his task at hand? Does he also know that Claire is suppose to be the one to raise Aaron and he needed to keep him as far away as he could from Claire?

  151. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371200″]Maybe the reflection in the mirror is Jack’s childhood home because the Shepherd on the dial is GrandDad Ray?

    : ) P[/quote]
    IMO, though I’ve said that Ray’s story isn’t finished, Jack said Jacob has been watching ME since I was…=writers telling us that’s what happened. IMO

  152. Miraks says:

    Some thoughts:

    1. Kate was touched by Jacob, but was the only one we did not see in the “this person got touched by Jacob” re-cap in last weeks episode. She was also not on the list, or on the ceiling in the cave. What if she is Jacob’s secret ace-in-the-hole? The one MIB does not know about?

    2. Seems like Jack and his dad had a somewhat better relationship in this “new” time-line, judging by the picture of them with their arms around each other smiling.

    3. When Jack asked David what he was listening to, I was so sure he was going to say “Drive Shaft”. LOL

  153. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371205″]

    3. When Jack asked David what he was listening to, I was so sure he was going to say “Drive Shaft”. LOL[/quote]
    I bet that hit the cutting room floor!

  154. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    [quote]
    I think it is also intereting that Kate had a dream in which Claire came to her and said NOT to bring Aaron back to the island.
    so was that Claire as we know her wanting to protect Aaron b/c she was infected and knew it was not safe to bring him back.[/quote]

    actually claire said “you’re not supposed to raise him.” which could also/later mean raise john from the dead; that was around the same time.

  155. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    didn’t actually quote myself; just tried to cut out the mile of previous quote.

  156. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371205″]Some thoughts:

    2. Seems like Jack and his dad had a somewhat better relationship in this “new” time-line, judging by the picture of them with their arms around each other smiling.

    3. When Jack asked David what he was listening to, I was so sure he was going to say “Drive Shaft”. LOL[/quote]
    ************
    Also thought that was what he was going to say! And then I thought we would see Jack get that somewhat confused de ja vu look on his face like he got with Des and Kate!

    Even though they showed a pic of Jack and dad it seemed like Jack still said it was not the best relationship and he then realized he needed to tell his son the things his dad never told him.

  157. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371183″](1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.
    [/quote]

    I like this line of thinking but how does the runway that was built come into play?

  158. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371111″][quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…[/quote]
    The first image appearred to be of an Asian temple and the second image appearred to be of a church. The church looked like the one from last season with the lamp post station underneath it. That was my intial reaction to watching the scene but I will look for screencaps to prove or disprove my intial thoughts.

  159. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371193″][quote comment=”371101″]When Jack went to his sons house when he was at the door was the house number 23 I thought I seen it when he was unlocking the door[/quote]
    The house number was 233.[/quote]
    Comment #51

  160. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371211″][quote comment=”371111″][quote comment=”371104″][quote comment=”371099″]

    51 is Austen. I’m staring at it now. Yep, that was my comment. I did not comment on any of the other numbers.[/quote]
    Austen is 51, Wallace is 108 and Rousseasu is 20. The image that Jack saw when he originally told Hurley to stop was when it was on number 51.[/quote]
    *********
    Ok I swear when jack first saw the image it was of a church it looked like a steple only watched esp. Once so prove me wrong guys…[/quote]
    The first image appearred to be of an Asian temple and the second image appearred to be of a church. The church looked like the one from last season with the lamp post station underneath it. That was my intial reaction to watching the scene but I will look for screencaps to prove or disprove my intial thoughts.[/quote]
    Here you go freom Hammer’s post #126.

    http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/a87a60506d042501aedab7a3346386ee

    http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/42151a7b88c99fe4019791ff77ce44fa

  161. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371207″][quote]
    I think it is also intereting that Kate had a dream in which Claire came to her and said NOT to bring Aaron back to the island.
    so was that Claire as we know her wanting to protect Aaron b/c she was infected and knew it was not safe to bring him back.[/quote]

    actually claire said “you’re not supposed to raise him.” which could also/later mean raise john from the dead; that was around the same time.[/quote]
    *************
    maybe we are talking about two different dreams. Kate grabs a gun b/c she hears a noise in the house…goes into Aaron’s bedroom and Claire is bent over him and she tells Kate NOT to bring him back to the island! Then kate wakes up and runs into his room.

  162. JO says:

    If you add up all numbers, 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 they add up to 108. Who was he calling to the island???

  163. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371214″][quote comment=”371207″][quote]
    I think it is also intereting that Kate had a dream in which Claire came to her and said NOT to bring Aaron back to the island.
    so was that Claire as we know her wanting to protect Aaron b/c she was infected and knew it was not safe to bring him back.[/quote]

    actually claire said “you’re not supposed to raise him.” which could also/later mean raise john from the dead; that was around the same time.[/quote]
    *************
    maybe we are talking about two different dreams. Kate grabs a gun b/c she hears a noise in the house…goes into Aaron’s bedroom and Claire is bent over him and she tells Kate NOT to bring him back to the island! Then kate wakes up and runs into his room.[/quote]
    The only “you’re not supposed to raise him” I can remember is Hugo telling Jack those words because dead Charlie told Hugo to tell Jack those words during the O6 years.

  164. Duke says:

    Just read Doc Jensen’s column at ew.com regarding last nights LOST. He pointed out that the song that David played on the piano last night was the same song that Faraday played in last seasons episode “The Variable.” I know it isn’t an earth shattering revelation but I found it interesting and thought some of you might as well.

  165. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371217″]Just read Doc Jensen’s column at ew.com regarding last nights LOST. He pointed out that the song that David played on the piano last night was the same song that Faraday played in last seasons episode “The Variable.” I know it isn’t an earth shattering revelation but I found it interesting and thought some of you might as well.[/quote]

    FTR, it was Chopin’s Fantastie Impromptu (shout out and thanks to Ack Attack!)

    : ) P

  166. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371206″][quote comment=”371205″]

    3. When Jack asked David what he was listening to, I was so sure he was going to say “Drive Shaft”. LOL[/quote]
    I bet that hit the cutting room floor![/quote]

    I was expecting Geronimo Jackson!

    : ) P

  167. Amber says:

    I like the idea that Miraks had about Kate being Jacobs “secret weapon” One that the MIB doesnt know about being a candidate. Also I only remember Clair being in Aarons bedroom telling Kate NOT to bring him back to the island. I dont want the flash sideways the be the way everything turns out. I want everyone to be frieds and live happily ever after on the island LOL.

  168. marco says:

    Did’nt Hurley mention the number Jacob wanted it turned to? I’d like to link up that name. And Jacob said someone is coming to the island and you need to help HIM find it. So is little Aaron coming or Desmond? Or someone else completely.

  169. Amber says:

    Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”

  170. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371221″]Did’nt Hurley mention the number Jacob wanted it turned to? I’d like to link up that name. And Jacob said someone is coming to the island and you need to help HIM find it. So is little Aaron coming or Desmond? Or someone else completely.[/quote]
    Check out post# 20…then there is plenty of discussion after.

  171. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?

  172. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371189″]
    So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle? They are clearly both affected by the same “illness”… but exactly how, and what is the “illness”?

    We know that Claire went through the same ordeal as Sayid, a la being reborn in the temple… though we don’t know WHY this is a bad thing, WHY this claims people. How exaclty the MIB influences TempleFountain matters is a mystery in itself…

    But we are pretty sure that this same thing never happened to Danielle. I think it’s safe to assume that she has never been to the temple, and has had limited direct contact with the Others. So was she infected by the crew she was with? They seemed to have the same mentality of Claire… the dreamy eyes, the vindiction that Smokey is wonderful “my friend” and “he’s the good guy (whatever the French crew said)”.

    However, if Danielle was affected in the same way, she never seemed to talk about Smokey in the same way. All she ever said about it was that it was a security system… and she never had those dreamy eyes. But maybe we just never witnessed it.

    If, therefore, she was affected by this illness (as we are to believe), then just how did she “catch” it? Danielle never seemed capable of infecting others, Claire doesn’t seem to be able to… but Danielle seemed to have caught it from her friends! Odd.

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]

    Danielle talked about the others in her team being “infected” and going crazy and violent. She killed them all. The question at that time was this: was she telling the truth about them, or was she the crazy one for killing them? And how were they all infected? At the time, it seemed like a disease-kind of infection, but now it seems like something completely different–an infection of evil?

    Both Claire and Sayid were shot–(Claire told this to Jin) is that the source of the infection, and if so, why? How are the temple dwellers testing for this infection? Why the branding iron and torture–what does it reveal to them about those being tortured?

  173. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371224″][quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?[/quote]
    Looks like Littleton too. She’s crossed out because she’s infected.

  174. Oasis says:

    A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)

  175. Miraks says:

    Jack did not mean Sarah until 2001, which would exclude her from being David’s mother? Maybe his ex is Penny.

  176. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371228″]Jack did not mean Sarah until 2001, which would exclude her from being David’s mother? Maybe his ex is Penny.[/quote]
    I am leaning towards Juliet being the mom at this time. No real conclusive reason for this just a thought.

  177. MyraBird says:

    A thought on what the torture reveals about being infected or not. Didn’t Rousseau also torture Sayid to test him somehow? Did he pass the test back then? If so, how is his reaction different than now?

  178. Duke says:

    I find it somewhat interesting that Jack’s ex-wife Sarah was a teacher. This may be how they connect Locke back to Jack seeing as how he is now a teacher at a middle school which may be where Jack’s son goes to school.

  179. wallyp says:

    Could Jack saying “I’ve got some pizza back at the house” be a sign that his kid is italian?

  180. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371230″]A thought on what the torture reveals about being infected or not. Didn’t Rousseau also torture Sayid to test him somehow? Did he pass the test back then? If so, how is his reaction different than now?[/quote]
    I’m still up in air as to whether Danielle or the crew was infected. If Danielle were the infected one, why this exchange?:

    DANIELLE:Leave it! Put your gun down!

    ROBERT:Danielle, don’t do this, it’s me!

    DANIELLE:You’re not Robert, you’ve changed, that thing has changed you!

    ROBERT:Danielle, please, put down your gun. I love you, why are you acting like this?

    DANIELLE:Because you’re not Robert, you’ve changed. That monster changed you.

    ROBERT: Mais il n’y a pas de monstre. C’est un système de sécurité qui garde ce temple, c’est tout. [There is no monster. It’s just a security system that guards the temple, that’s all.]

    ROBERT:Now put down your gun.

    [Danielle hesitates.]

    ROBERT: I love you, Danielle. I don’t want anything to happen to us. To you, or to our baby.

    [Danielle slowly lowers her gun. Suddenly, Robert cocks his gun and fires, but it does not work. Danielle shoots Robert in the head.]

    JIN: No!

    [Danielle immediately turns to him.]

    DANIELLE: You! You disappeared! Are you sick too? You’re a carrier?

  181. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371226″][quote comment=”371224″][quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?[/quote]
    Looks like Littleton too. She’s crossed out because she’s infected.[/quote]
    I’m thinking that perhaps they have been crossed off because they have chosen a side in one way or another. This looks like it’s headed towards a big battle at the temple between two sides. Those who aren’t crossed off aren’t yet committed to one side or the other–therefore, still “canidates” for either side. Just my guess.

  182. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371227″]A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)[/quote]
    I agree. The 108 was simply to get Jack to see his house and to discover that Jacob had been watching him all along. Whether or not it has any other significance—other than to keep everyone guessing, that is . . .

  183. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371229″][quote comment=”371228″]Jack did not mean Sarah until 2001, which would exclude her from being David’s mother? Maybe his ex is Penny.[/quote]
    I am leaning towards Juliet being the mom at this time. No real conclusive reason for this just a thought.[/quote]
    That was my thought too. I keep staring at David’s blue, blue eyes and think they must be significant.

  184. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371234″][quote comment=”371226″][quote comment=”371224″][quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?[/quote]
    Looks like Littleton too. She’s crossed out because she’s infected.[/quote]
    I’m thinking that perhaps they have been crossed off because they have chosen a side in one way or another. This looks like it’s headed towards a big battle at the temple between two sides. Those who aren’t crossed off aren’t yet committed to one side or the other–therefore, still “canidates” for either side. Just my guess.[/quote]
    Caught the type too late–“candidates.”

  185. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371232″]Could Jack saying “I’ve got some pizza back at the house” be a sign that his kid is italian?[/quote]
    That makes no sense. Why would having pizza back home be a sign that someone is Italian. Everyone likes pizza.

  186. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371227″]A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)[/quote]
    A good story often comes around full circle in some way–hopefully a surprising and creative way.

  187. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371224″][quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?[/quote]
    I believe that Linus may be crossed off because he chose sides–when he listened to “Locke” and killed Jacob. Perhaps he chose long before that with other decisions he made–like killing the real Locke.

  188. Rabbit says:

    [quote comment=”371230″]A thought on what the torture reveals about being infected or not. Didn’t Rousseau also torture Sayid to test him somehow? Did he pass the test back then? If so, how is his reaction different than now?[/quote]

    I was thinking that if they are infected maybe the island (or Jacob) doesn’t heal their burns. Claire still has her burn mark and Sayid showed his to Jack immediately after the torture session. Not sure as to what the electric shock does, maybe tries to make them admit to being under the influence of MIB. Just a shot in the dark…

  189. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371183″](1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.

    (2) What they do on the island at this juncture in its timeline will affect future events.

    (3) In this future, the lives of their future selves turned out differently as a result of their actions on the island in the current season- this is aside from the fact that in this timeline the plane never crashed. Thus Jack has a son etc etc.

    I’m guessing there will be a crude form of poetic justice involved. Thus, you do the right thing on the island, then your future self has a good life, the wrong thing and he/she has a lousy life.

    Strictly speaking this isn’t a parallel reality, as both sets of characters are inhabiting the same timeline.

    Still say I’m right about Smokey – but naturally everybody (including me) is entitled to their opinion.[/quote]

    Why is it that Locke on the island develops a great faith, sense of purpose, and belief in miracles, and Locke without the island experience lacks faith and a belief in miracles?

    What are these two realities? Are they side by side or is something else going on? One can’t simply be what would have happened had the plane not crashed–because the characters all seem to have an eery sense of events on the island and an eery lack of memory of their LA lives–as if the LA experience must follow the island experience in some way.

    Why is it that Hurley was having bad luck when the plane crashed, but in the new scenerio it seems he never experienced the bad luck? What changed for him, and is that linked to the island experience? Does he have “good luck” because he is willing to listen to Jacob and do what he is “called” to do?

    This would support your theor–that what the characters do on the island seals their fate in the “real world.” In that case, will Claire’s life then be in shambles? How about Linus? Shouldn’t his life be a wreck too?

  190. TD says:

    Could the church be the monastery where Desmond lived? He may be 108 — what do you guys think?

    Also he was the “button pusher” so he was the 108 man for a while

    do you think they are connected?

  191. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371241″][quote comment=”371230″]A thought on what the torture reveals about being infected or not. Didn’t Rousseau also torture Sayid to test him somehow? Did he pass the test back then? If so, how is his reaction different than now?[/quote]

    I was thinking that if they are infected maybe the island (or Jacob) doesn’t heal their burns. Claire still has her burn mark and Sayid showed his to Jack immediately after the torture session. Not sure as to what the electric shock does, maybe tries to make them admit to being under the influence of MIB. Just a shot in the dark…[/quote]

    Sayid doesn’t admit to being under the influence and yet doesn’t pass the test. Maybe their ability to resist the force of the torture has something to do with the diagnosis of being infected. Maybe it’s what they don’t say that tells all . . .

  192. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371238″][quote comment=”371232″]Could Jack saying “I’ve got some pizza back at the house” be a sign that his kid is italian?[/quote]
    That makes no sense. Why would having pizza back home be a sign that someone is Italian. Everyone likes pizza.[/quote]
    It could be a sign that Jack doesn’t cook. Maybe his son eats better at Mom’s house.

  193. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371059″]Either Widmore or Des is on the way.[/quote]

    Maybe someone is on the way–maybe no one is on the way. The point seems to be more about something that Jacob wants Jack to do, rather than the someone who may or may not be coming.

  194. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371243″]Could the church be the monastery where Desmond lived? He may be 108 — what do you guys think?

    Also he was the “button pusher” so he was the 108 man for a while

    do you think they are connected?[/quote]
    No because in this screen cap, 108 is Wallace.

    http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/1feac177a6f022c07b04e75dd16d1a6b

  195. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371235″][quote comment=”371227″]A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)[/quote]
    I agree. The 108 was simply to get Jack to see his house and to discover that Jacob had been watching him all along. Whether or not it has any other significance—other than to keep everyone guessing, that is . . .[/quote]

    No, but Jacob definitely wanted to use the lighthouse to bring Wallace to the island… he likely did have the ulterior motive of pushing Jack down his chosen path… but he didn’t say “108” arbitrarily. When Hugo tells Jacob the mirror is smashed, Jacob still expresses an interest in Wallace coming to the island.

  196. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371071″]I question Jin’s decision to lie to Claire about Aaron – when Claire finds out Aaron isn’t at the temple, and realizes Jin lied, wouldn’t she try to kill him?[/quote]

    I think he lied to survive in the moment–he doesn’t know what to make of Claire’s behavior. He probably hasn’t planned as far as what he would do as they approached the temple–maybe hoping to make his escape before they arrive. Will he actually take Claire and “Locke” to the temple, or will he try to lead them in a different direction? That probably depends on what he thinks is going on.

  197. TD says:

    @Hammer -thanks I didn’t see that screen shot when I viewed the others

  198. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371089″]Jacob told Hurley that some people can be told what to do but some have to figure it out for themselves.

    Is that a product of the people’s personality or the role they are too play/ rules?[/quote]

    My thought is that it is simple human nature. Some find it easier to have faith, believe, and follow; others struggle much more. Hurley has a kind of simple faith. Locke comes to faith on the island. Jack is struggling through.

  199. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371233″]

    ROBERT: I love you, Danielle. I don’t want anything to happen to us. To you, or to our baby.

    [Danielle slowly lowers her gun. Suddenly, Robert cocks his gun and fires, but it does not work. Danielle shoots Robert in the head.]

    JIN: No!

    [Danielle immediately turns to him.]

    DANIELLE: You! You disappeared! Are you sick too? You’re a carrier?[/quote]

    At this point I’m going to say that Danielle was NOT infected. Robert was infected by the MIBs intentions to make him kill Danielle (thereby killing her baby)…

    (so why does she act like Danielle?)
    Since MIB is orchestrating the actions of different people all at once, maybe he wanted Claire to resemble Danielle on purpose, to pursuade Jin, since he was there and witnessed Robert trying to kill Danielle, he would make a connection and want to help Claire… when that didn’t seem to be happening, Claire just axed the dude in the chest. She’s a killing machine. Danielle was crazy, but Claire seemed evil (I’ve met a few “infected Claires” myself in the day,,, evil)she looked a lot more like robert than she did like Danielle.

  200. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371199″][quote comment=”371195″][quote comment=”371194″][quote comment=”371189″]So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle?
    ….

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]

    You are assuming Claire got dunked in the fountain. I do not. I think Claire was infected some other way (shortly after her house blew up). I think the Others took her to the temple for testing and she failed. As Dogen said about Sayid, the infected person has to take the pill willingly…so she’s off being friends with MIB.[/quote]

    Ahhh… that makes more sense. I just figured they gave her the usual Temple treatment.. but you are right, she likely was not brought there dead.

    So how does one become infected? And why does it lead to trap setting and knowledge of explosives?[/quote]
    LOL @ traps and explosives. We’ll see about Sayid.[/quote]

    Claire tells Jin that she was shot. Sayid was shot. Perhaps the infection has to do with this experience.

  201. TD says:

    Another thing I found interesting about the show last night was that Jack’s son is reading an Alice in Wonderland Story and then we see the “looking glass” that is used to see the people on the wheel….

  202. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment=”371225″][quote comment=”371189″]
    So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle? They are clearly both affected by the same “illness”… but exactly how, and what is the “illness”?

    We know that Claire went through the same ordeal as Sayid, a la being reborn in the temple… though we don’t know WHY this is a bad thing, WHY this claims people. How exaclty the MIB influences TempleFountain matters is a mystery in itself…

    But we are pretty sure that this same thing never happened to Danielle. I think it’s safe to assume that she has never been to the temple, and has had limited direct contact with the Others. So was she infected by the crew she was with? They seemed to have the same mentality of Claire… the dreamy eyes, the vindiction that Smokey is wonderful “my friend” and “he’s the good guy (whatever the French crew said)”.

    However, if Danielle was affected in the same way, she never seemed to talk about Smokey in the same way. All she ever said about it was that it was a security system… and she never had those dreamy eyes. But maybe we just never witnessed it.

    If, therefore, she was affected by this illness (as we are to believe), then just how did she “catch” it? Danielle never seemed capable of infecting others, Claire doesn’t seem to be able to… but Danielle seemed to have caught it from her friends! Odd.

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]

    Danielle talked about the others in her team being “infected” and going crazy and violent. She killed them all. The question at that time was this: was she telling the truth about them, or was she the crazy one for killing them? And how were they all infected? At the time, it seemed like a disease-kind of infection, but now it seems like something completely different–an infection of evil?

    Both Claire and Sayid were shot–(Claire told this to Jin) is that the source of the infection, and if so, why? How are the temple dwellers testing for this infection? Why the branding iron and torture–what does it reveal to them about those being tortured?[/quote]

    Heres what I think about the “torture tests”…..maybe when a person becomes “infected” like Sayid, Claire, Christian, maybe even the MIB, etc. they become sort of an entity instead of a person, meaning they might not feel emotions and pain and what not….so….after Sayid is dunked in the spring he is pronounced dead by Dogen..20 minutes later he is alive…the expression on Dogen and Lennons face shows that this is unusual…if a person who has been “claimed” or infected cannot feel emotions and pain, maybe the “torture test” is a way of seeing how one would react to something they cannot feel…for instance….Sayid sees the hot poker and he knows in his mind that “this is going to hurt ALOT” but he cant feel it, so he pretends to be in pain…maybe they have a way of telling whether someone is faking a feeling they have….just a thought

  203. curiousone says:

    I haven’t seen a post on this yet, but sorry if I simply missed it: If “Locke” is evil as seems to be represented by the black clothes (of the nemesis of Jacob), the black smoke, and the black rock on the scale in the cave (he threw out the white rock), then perhaps we shouldn’t trust anything he says as being true. This then calls into question everything that the phony “Locke” has been saying since the return of the Oceanic 6.

    The three choices that he gives to Sawyer might be completely false. When he says the candidate is one who will “protect the island,” he might be lying about the whole point. When he says that “the island doesn’t need protecting,” he might be lying about that.

  204. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371252″][quote comment=”371233″]

    ROBERT: I love you, Danielle. I don’t want anything to happen to us. To you, or to our baby.

    [Danielle slowly lowers her gun. Suddenly, Robert cocks his gun and fires, but it does not work. Danielle shoots Robert in the head.]

    JIN: No!

    [Danielle immediately turns to him.]

    DANIELLE: You! You disappeared! Are you sick too? You’re a carrier?[/quote]

    At this point I’m going to say that Danielle was NOT infected. Robert was infected by the MIBs intentions to make him kill Danielle (thereby killing her baby)…

    (so why does she act like Danielle?)
    Since MIB is orchestrating the actions of different people all at once, maybe he wanted Claire to resemble Danielle on purpose, to pursuade Jin, since he was there and witnessed Robert trying to kill Danielle, he would make a connection and want to help Claire… when that didn’t seem to be happening, Claire just axed the dude in the chest. She’s a killing machine. Danielle was crazy, but Claire seemed evil (I’ve met a few “infected Claires” myself in the day,,, evil)she looked a lot more like robert than she did like Danielle.[/quote]

    My thinking is that both Danielle and Robert were infected… Danielle just thought they were on different teams.

    Robert was acting like Claire was… with the dreamy, ecstatic “this place is wonderful!!” demeanor… so that’s what makes me think he was infected initially. Then somehow it made its way to Danielle… possibly even after the Robert/crew debacle.

  205. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment=”371240″][quote comment=”371224″][quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?[/quote]
    I believe that Linus may be crossed off because he chose sides–when he listened to “Locke” and killed Jacob. Perhaps he chose long before that with other decisions he made–like killing the real Locke.[/quote]

    …. and killing all the Dharma people, and killing all the people on Jacob’s list in the real world after leaving the island in 2004 …

  206. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371255″][quote comment=”371225″][quote comment=”371189″]
    So exactly what is the connection between Claire and Danielle? They are clearly both affected by the same “illness”… but exactly how, and what is the “illness”?

    We know that Claire went through the same ordeal as Sayid, a la being reborn in the temple… though we don’t know WHY this is a bad thing, WHY this claims people. How exaclty the MIB influences TempleFountain matters is a mystery in itself…

    But we are pretty sure that this same thing never happened to Danielle. I think it’s safe to assume that she has never been to the temple, and has had limited direct contact with the Others. So was she infected by the crew she was with? They seemed to have the same mentality of Claire… the dreamy eyes, the vindiction that Smokey is wonderful “my friend” and “he’s the good guy (whatever the French crew said)”.

    However, if Danielle was affected in the same way, she never seemed to talk about Smokey in the same way. All she ever said about it was that it was a security system… and she never had those dreamy eyes. But maybe we just never witnessed it.

    If, therefore, she was affected by this illness (as we are to believe), then just how did she “catch” it? Danielle never seemed capable of infecting others, Claire doesn’t seem to be able to… but Danielle seemed to have caught it from her friends! Odd.

    Also – I guess we should expect Sayid to start talking dreamily about Smokey too.[/quote]

    Danielle talked about the others in her team being “infected” and going crazy and violent. She killed them all. The question at that time was this: was she telling the truth about them, or was she the crazy one for killing them? And how were they all infected? At the time, it seemed like a disease-kind of infection, but now it seems like something completely different–an infection of evil?

    Both Claire and Sayid were shot–(Claire told this to Jin) is that the source of the infection, and if so, why? How are the temple dwellers testing for this infection? Why the branding iron and torture–what does it reveal to them about those being tortured?[/quote]

    Heres what I think about the “torture tests”…..maybe when a person becomes “infected” like Sayid, Claire, Christian, maybe even the MIB, etc. they become sort of an entity instead of a person, meaning they might not feel emotions and pain and what not….so….after Sayid is dunked in the spring he is pronounced dead by Dogen..20 minutes later he is alive…the expression on Dogen and Lennons face shows that this is unusual…if a person who has been “claimed” or infected cannot feel emotions and pain, maybe the “torture test” is a way of seeing how one would react to something they cannot feel…for instance….Sayid sees the hot poker and he knows in his mind that “this is going to hurt ALOT” but he cant feel it, so he pretends to be in pain…maybe they have a way of telling whether someone is faking a feeling they have….just a thought[/quote]

    My thought was that the water was not clean looking as they seemed to expect–a result of the death of Jacob? So then when Sayid was healed by the water–brought to life–the temple dwellers were suspicious of that healing–especially as it didn’t occur immediately as they had seemed to expect. If it had been a true healing, he would have been healed immediately and would not have “died” and then been healed.

    I think that there was something that Sayid didn’t say when his was being tortured–something that would have revealed that he wasn’t infected. He is not yet completely given over to the “dark side” as they are waiting for him to change in some way–to become different than he is now. That tranformation is not yet complete. Is there a way to stop that transformation, or is his fate sealed? Is there a way to bring back Claire, or is her fate also sealed?

  207. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371258″][quote comment=”371240″][quote comment=”371224″][quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?[/quote]
    I believe that Linus may be crossed off because he chose sides–when he listened to “Locke” and killed Jacob. Perhaps he chose long before that with other decisions he made–like killing the real Locke.[/quote]

    …. and killing all the Dharma people, and killing all the people on Jacob’s list in the real world after leaving the island in 2004 …[/quote]

    Yes . . . it seems that Linus is bad through and through. Maybe he’s one of those teachers from hell we have all had at one time or another : )

  208. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371254″]Another thing I found interesting about the show last night was that Jack’s son is reading an Alice in Wonderland Story and then we see the “looking glass” that is used to see the people on the wheel….[/quote]
    Oh, crazy–have they all fallen down a rabbit hole? Or are we the ones who have fallen?

  209. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371248″][quote comment=”371235″][quote comment=”371227″]A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)[/quote]
    I agree. The 108 was simply to get Jack to see his house and to discover that Jacob had been watching him all along. Whether or not it has any other significance—other than to keep everyone guessing, that is . . .[/quote]

    No, but Jacob definitely wanted to use the lighthouse to bring Wallace to the island… he likely did have the ulterior motive of pushing Jack down his chosen path… but he didn’t say “108” arbitrarily. When Hugo tells Jacob the mirror is smashed, Jacob still expresses an interest in Wallace coming to the island.[/quote]

    Perhaps, but it seems that whoever
    will come will do so with or without the lighthouse, so that calls into question the significance of the person’s coming at all–or at least the significance of the person’s coming in relation to the lighthouse events–since the events were for Jack and something he needs to do and not for using the lighthouse to guide the person who is coming.

  210. RGS says:

    The whole “infection” thing may be the belief that if one is opposed to Jacob and his followers, then they get labeled as infected. They still have the free will to do what they want.

    I state that under the idea that Claire may not be infected, just influenced by her “friend.” Clearly it seems that her friend has led her to believe that the Jacob followers took her baby. One could theorize that he in the form of Christian, led her astray long enough for the baby to be found. We know what happens next.

    Then he comes back in his MIB form and befriends Claire, starts feeding her lies about who took her child, making her think it was the Jacob followers. This in turn pitted her against them, and they not knowing what happened to the baby, merely think she’s crazy.

    Also, maybe she sees FLocke as MIB, while everyone else sees Locke.

    I’m not sure that Claire is infected, but who the heck knows it’s nutty.

  211. DocH says:

    Arrived on the island very pregnant.

    Had her baby, then had her baby kidnapped.

    Lives in the jungle, carries a rifle and sets traps.

    Has captured someone from OA815.
    – – – –
    Who did I just describe?
    A. Danielle
    B. Claire
    C. Both

  212. Oasis says:

    [quote comment=”371262″][quote comment=”371248″][quote comment=”371235″][quote comment=”371227″]A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)[/quote]
    I agree. The 108 was simply to get Jack to see his house and to discover that Jacob had been watching him all along. Whether or not it has any other significance—other than to keep everyone guessing, that is . . .[/quote]

    No, but Jacob definitely wanted to use the lighthouse to bring Wallace to the island… he likely did have the ulterior motive of pushing Jack down his chosen path… but he didn’t say “108” arbitrarily. When Hugo tells Jacob the mirror is smashed, Jacob still expresses an interest in Wallace coming to the island.[/quote]

    Perhaps, but it seems that whoever
    will come will do so with or without the lighthouse, so that calls into question the significance of the person’s coming at all–or at least the significance of the person’s coming in relation to the lighthouse events–since the events were for Jack and something he needs to do and not for using the lighthouse to guide the person who is coming.[/quote]

    I can still see the importance of the person coming (108 or not) but I thought Jacob made it pretty clear that JACK had to do something very important. Probably much more importnat than the person who is coming. This should be our main focus -Jacks “mission”

    As to Sayid I doubt he is or will be turned “evil” given that it is Jacob who instructs Hurley to take Sayid to the temple. Why not simply wait until Sayid died, have him buried, and then tell Hurley to head to the Temple. Jacob has to have a plan for Sayid…

  213. riddlemethis says:

    Okay so I want to toss this out, because nobody so far has posited this:

    Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass was in Christian Shepherd’s study when Jack was helping his mom look for his dad’s will in the altverse in 2004. This is a teaser alert for events to follow.

    On the island in 2007 Jacob has Hurley bring Jack to the lighthouse that mysteriously appears (because Jacob unveils it) and it has magical significance insofar as directing or summoning people to the island. It also can allow Jacob to look outside the island. And I’m guessing (This is a big leap) it can allow Jacob to physically leave the island by going “through the looking glass” via stargate-type astral projection or teleportation or beaming up or quantum mechanics or whatever else you want to call it. An earlier comment hypothesized how three panes of the mirror glass would allow for viewing of past, present or future existences of whoever was a list candidate or puzzle piece in Jacob’s and Flocke’s end game plan. Whatever that is.

    This is how Jacob was able to get off the island and visit Locke\Jack\Kate\Sayid\Jin\Hurley\Sawyer\Ilana in different times and different locations and get back to the island. His nemesis was never allowed to leave the island by the game rules but because of the “loophole”, Flocke killed Jacob by manipulating Ben and Flocke is now free to walk around openly while recruiting the people on the island who represent 4,8,15,16,23,42 to assist him in leaving the island and winning the game. The loophole is clearly allowing free will to decide what to do next.

    In order to keep Flocke trapped on the island, Jacob had to destroy the “Looking Glass Stargate” but couldn’t tell Hurley to do it because the “rules” that he and Flocke play by do not permit him to. So Jack is again allowed his free will to decide what action to take in deciding destiny for himself and the other participants in this cosmic game of good vs evil, black vs white, fate vs free choice, god vs pragmatism, or us vs them.

  214. Miraks says:

    Could 108 be Aaron? Last season there was a lot of insistance on ALL six of the Oceanic 6 coming back, yet he was left behind. He has also been one of the main topics in yesterday’s episode. Maybe he’ll come back to the island somehow.

  215. Eman123 says:

    I totally agree with riddlemethis point. The blond child that Flcoke saw could be like the moderator, he told Flocke that he cannot kill and I think that Jacob has the disadvantage he cannot tell straight away his plans to save them, so it’s all about trust.

    In my opinion, Jacob is the good manipulating god and Flocke is his enemy, therefore being the manipulating devil.

    Maybe through their eyes their are both the good one but in my opinion Jacob is trying to do the same thing as he did with the losties,
    he wants to bring new candidates to the island to save it and them.

    I really want to watch the candidates episode :D.

    I consider that Hugo is one of the most potential characters to become the New Jacob (as he is a fully good person that wants the best for all of them) and the obvious talent he has to see dead people. What it would be awesome is that all of them replaced the roles of the ppl in the island, i’ll explain my theory:

    Claire/Sayid–> New Linus/ Charles Widmore
    as she has become one of the bad guys obsessed with something that is, was in the island. Maybe Sayid will turn evil, the sneak peek of the next episode does give kind of a sense for that.

    Jin/Sawyer/Jack–> New Jacob or Leader of the others (Dogan).
    Jin could stay as he has to find Sun. Jack showed in this episode that he really cares about the Island as he thinks its going to fix him (he might be afraid to leave or feel in debt with it if he gets fixed).Sawyer just starts off by being with the bad guys only to change at the last moment (wanted to get off the island with the Dharma guys but then stayed, didnt want to denote bomb and then he helped… HE is with Flocke and the he will stop him or something alike…).

    Kate/ Sun–> New Eliana
    Both have reason to stay and to get out of the island

    and my favorite:

    Hurley— New Jacob/ NEW RICHARD :)
    Richard once said to Flocke something like ”I’ve seen many things in the island but not someone coming back to life” Well, what hasn’t hurley seen yet? Dead people, polar bears, boats, statues… He is just the perfect candidate for that :D

    BTW: David was reading Alice in Wonderland, how does alice get to wonderland? With a mirror. How did Jacob watch them? With a mirror
    xD
    Cheers

  216. LostDamery says:

    My 2 cents:
    1) I believe the “infected” are those who are being influenced by Jacobs nemesis (not the inhabited).
    2) Didn’t Desmond get fed some story about the island was infected. When he was recruited (as a candidate?(Jacob’s)) to push the button every 108 seconds?

  217. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371265″][quote comment=”371262″][quote comment=”371248″][quote comment=”371235″][quote comment=”371227″]A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)[/quote]
    I agree. The 108 was simply to get Jack to see his house and to discover that Jacob had been watching him all along. Whether or not it has any other significance—other than to keep everyone guessing, that is . . .[/quote]

    No, but Jacob definitely wanted to use the lighthouse to bring Wallace to the island… he likely did have the ulterior motive of pushing Jack down his chosen path… but he didn’t say “108” arbitrarily. When Hugo tells Jacob the mirror is smashed, Jacob still expresses an interest in Wallace coming to the island.[/quote]

    Perhaps, but it seems that whoever
    will come will do so with or without the lighthouse, so that calls into question the significance of the person’s coming at all–or at least the significance of the person’s coming in relation to the lighthouse events–since the events were for Jack and something he needs to do and not for using the lighthouse to guide the person who is coming.[/quote]

    I can still see the importance of the person coming (108 or not) but I thought Jacob made it pretty clear that JACK had to do something very important. Probably much more importnat than the person who is coming. This should be our main focus -Jacks “mission”

    As to Sayid I doubt he is or will be turned “evil” given that it is Jacob who instructs Hurley to take Sayid to the temple. Why not simply wait until Sayid died, have him buried, and then tell Hurley to head to the Temple. Jacob has to have a plan for Sayid…[/quote]

    Interesting point about Sayid–Jacob certainly had something in mind in having Hurley take Sayid to the temple. At that point, had Ben already killed Jacob?–because when he did, the water changed at the temple, and presumably other things changed as well–perhaps even what would happen to Sayid when he got there.

  218. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371268″]I totally agree with riddlemethis point. The blond child that Flcoke saw could be like the moderator, he told Flocke that he cannot kill and I think that Jacob has the disadvantage he cannot tell straight away his plans to save them, so it’s all about trust.

    In my opinion, Jacob is the good manipulating god and Flocke is his enemy, therefore being the manipulating devil.

    Maybe through their eyes their are both the good one but in my opinion Jacob is trying to do the same thing as he did with the losties,
    he wants to bring new candidates to the island to save it and them.

    I really want to watch the candidates episode :D.

    I consider that Hugo is one of the most potential characters to become the New Jacob (as he is a fully good person that wants the best for all of them) and the obvious talent he has to see dead people. What it would be awesome is that all of them replaced the roles of the ppl in the island, i’ll explain my theory:

    Claire/Sayid–> New Linus/ Charles Widmore
    as she has become one of the bad guys obsessed with something that is, was in the island. Maybe Sayid will turn evil, the sneak peek of the next episode does give kind of a sense for that.

    Jin/Sawyer/Jack–> New Jacob or Leader of the others (Dogan).
    Jin could stay as he has to find Sun. Jack showed in this episode that he really cares about the Island as he thinks its going to fix him (he might be afraid to leave or feel in debt with it if he gets fixed).Sawyer just starts off by being with the bad guys only to change at the last moment (wanted to get off the island with the Dharma guys but then stayed, didnt want to denote bomb and then he helped… HE is with Flocke and the he will stop him or something alike…).

    Kate/ Sun–> New Eliana
    Both have reason to stay and to get out of the island

    and my favorite:

    Hurley— New Jacob/ NEW RICHARD :)
    Richard once said to Flocke something like ”I’ve seen many things in the island but not someone coming back to life” Well, what hasn’t hurley seen yet? Dead people, polar bears, boats, statues… He is just the perfect candidate for that :D

    BTW: David was reading Alice in Wonderland, how does alice get to wonderland? With a mirror. How did Jacob watch them? With a mirror
    xD
    Cheers[/quote]

    Interesting . . . I thought the blond child was Jacob–reborn and growing up again. He appeared (to me) to grow older in subsequent sightings. My thought was that “Locke” will have to move quickly to get to the temple before Jacob is completely himself again and fully prepared for battle. Jacob appearing to Hurly made me question that idea, and I’m still wondering why Sawyer could see the blond child while others could not. “Locke” seemed surprised as well.

  219. LizS says:

    I LOVED this episode, I thought Jack was a Great Dad, Hurley rocks as ever, Jacob, I think I’m in love with a cryptic ghost–Claire is insane, poor thing, & was that not the creepiest little baby doll EVA? Jin is in Big BIG trouble–be clever, my friend.

    I don’t know what the heck is going on with the sideways timeline (or with many other aspects of this show), but it’s interesting–at some point, does That-Jack realize something isn’t right? Are we in for another course-correction? Or maybe that alt-life is a reward for doing something right on the Island? I keep going back to Juliet’s words from beyond death. “It worked.” My head spins every time it goes around that one.

    Anyway, the Alice through the Looking Glass references–I read this book many, many times, but, you know, not in a while, so…for your enjoyment…the First Line:

    “One thing was certain, that the white kitten had had nothing to do with it: — it was the black kitten’s fault entirely.”

  220. LostDamery says:

    [quote comment=”371267″]Could 108 be Aaron? Last season there was a lot of insistance on ALL six of the Oceanic 6 coming back, yet he was left behind. He has also been one of the main topics in yesterday’s episode. Maybe he’ll come back to the island somehow.[/quote]
    108 = WALLACE
    However I do like the idea that maybe…Aaron is the loophole and NOT Flocke, for the very reason that he was on the island and did not return. oh wait WALT? How does he play into this? I am betting he ruturns to find his dad…DEAD!

  221. Oasis says:

    [quote comment=”371270″][quote comment=”371265″][quote comment=”371262″][quote comment=”371248″][quote comment=”371235″][quote comment=”371227″]A couple of quick hits

    108 dont matter.
    as in the whole purpose of taking Jack to the lighthouse was to “push” his buttons (in the right direction) as Jacob said

    “thats not locke its my friend…”
    best line of the night

    claire is the key the MIB uses to get into the temple (thanks to Jin’s secret entrance )

    strangely it does feel like we have already seen the finale (as in the premier)[/quote]
    I agree. The 108 was simply to get Jack to see his house and to discover that Jacob had been watching him all along. Whether or not it has any other significance—other than to keep everyone guessing, that is . . .[/quote]

    No, but Jacob definitely wanted to use the lighthouse to bring Wallace to the island… he likely did have the ulterior motive of pushing Jack down his chosen path… but he didn’t say “108” arbitrarily. When Hugo tells Jacob the mirror is smashed, Jacob still expresses an interest in Wallace coming to the island.[/quote]

    Perhaps, but it seems that whoever
    will come will do so with or without the lighthouse, so that calls into question the significance of the person’s coming at all–or at least the significance of the person’s coming in relation to the lighthouse events–since the events were for Jack and something he needs to do and not for using the lighthouse to guide the person who is coming.[/quote]

    I can still see the importance of the person coming (108 or not) but I thought Jacob made it pretty clear that JACK had to do something very important. Probably much more importnat than the person who is coming. This should be our main focus -Jacks “mission”

    As to Sayid I doubt he is or will be turned “evil” given that it is Jacob who instructs Hurley to take Sayid to the temple. Why not simply wait until Sayid died, have him buried, and then tell Hurley to head to the Temple. Jacob has to have a plan for Sayid…[/quote]

    Interesting point about Sayid–Jacob certainly had something in mind in having Hurley take Sayid to the temple. At that point, had Ben already killed Jacob?–because when he did, the water changed at the temple, and presumably other things changed as well–perhaps even what would happen to Sayid when he got there.[/quote]

    Jacob was dead before he told Hurley to take Sayid to the temple.

    I am pretty sure Jacob knows exactly what he is doing. Given last weeks scene with the MIB on the run chasing after “ghosts” it seems Jacob has the upper hand and the MIB is has no idea whats in store for him.

    Eloise’s words “For the first time in a long time I have no idea what will happen next” (paraphrasing) may very well now apply to the MIB…

  222. Eman123 says:

    Jacob WAS DEAD when he told Hurley to take Sayid to the temple, I remember him saying something like H:’ Why dont u take him?’ J: ‘Because i died pver an hour ago’

  223. PJSander says:

    Hey guys, when you “quote and reply” you can edit out some of what you quoting, so that all six of the prior posts don’t show up. Just sayin’.

    : ) P

  224. Sunnybrook says:

    [quote comment=”371192″]This episode would have been better if Jack saw his childhood home being torched by Orcs…[/quote]
    lol…good one

  225. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371264″]Arrived on the island very pregnant.

    Had her baby, then had her baby kidnapped.

    Lives in the jungle, carries a rifle and sets traps.

    Has captured someone from OA815.
    – – – –
    Who did I just describe?
    A. Danielle
    B. Claire
    C. Both[/quote]
    Danielle……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.

  226. Lostfan says:

    Robert was acting like Claire was… with the dreamy, ecstatic “this place is wonderful!!” demeanor… so that’s what makes me think he was infected initially. Then somehow it made its way to Danielle… possibly even after the Robert/crew debacle.[/quote]

    I don’t think Danielle was infected. She was just completely alone for 16 years and in fear. That would make anyone crazy. She was defensive. Claire took on that persona. Danielle never seemed at ease with the island. When she found Alex, she was elated. Something tells me that if Claire were to find Aaron, she’d be even nuttier.

  227. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”371278″]……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]

    Wrong. The Answer is C. …C. (Both)

    (btw. Claire did have her baby kidnapped. It was a very big plotline a few years back.)

  228. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371279″]Robert was acting like Claire was… with the dreamy, ecstatic “this place is wonderful!!” demeanor… so that’s what makes me think he was infected initially. Then somehow it made its way to Danielle… possibly even after the Robert/crew debacle.[/quote]

    I don’t think Danielle was infected. She was just completely alone for 16 years and in fear. That would make anyone crazy. She was defensive. Claire took on that persona. Danielle never seemed at ease with the island. When she found Alex, she was elated. Something tells me that if Claire were to find Aaron, she’d be even nuttier.[/quote]

    yes yes, that’s why it’s so confusing – Danielle never was a Smokey cheerleader, a la CrazyClaire and Robert… but there are characteristics that she and Claire share that are just too specific and exact to brush it off as a coincidence.

    The booby traps, the dynamite, the affinity for torturing, not to mention the fact that their mannerisms are very similar… these are all in the story for a reason, to demonstrate that Claire is now seeing things through Danielle’s eyes. It just seems too much of a stretch to say that Claire is acting that way because of the infection, while Danielle is only acting that way because of seclusion. That is my opinion anyhoo.

  229. TheSandlerMan says:

    Claire seemed crazier than Danielle.

    (That’s fresh crazy versus old school crazy.)

    Claire is fresh crazy after only three years, Danielle had time to settle into crazy after sixteen years.

    Australian crazy – Foster’s, prawns and rules football versus French crazy – wine, cheese and always surrendering to German.

    Punk rock, unwed fly to LA for adoption crazy versus scientific expedition, happily married, want to raise my baby crazy.

  230. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371282″]Claire seemed crazier than Danielle.

    (That’s fresh crazy versus old school crazy.)

    Claire is fresh crazy after only three years, Danielle had time to settle into crazy after sixteen years.

    Australian crazy – Foster’s, prawns and rules football versus French crazy – wine, cheese and always surrendering to German.

    Punk rock, unwed fly to LA for adoption crazy versus scientific expedition, happily married, want to raise my baby crazy.[/quote]

    Sooo you’re saying that neither was infected? It’s just that Claire is Australian and Danielle was alone for 16 years?

    =)

  231. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371280″][quote comment=”371278″]……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]

    Wrong. The Answer is C. …C. (Both)

    (btw. Claire did have her baby kidnapped. It was a very big plotline a few years back.)[/quote]
    Ironic that Danielle is the one that kidnapped Aaron.

    But IMO, those three similarities do not equal Danielle being infected…her team was.

  232. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371275″]Jacob WAS DEAD when he told Hurley to take Sayid to the temple, I remember him saying something like H:’ Why dont u take him?’ J: ‘Because i died pver an hour ago'[/quote]

    Thanks. That may be important.

  233. mo&moLOST says:

    [quote comment=”371068″]F’in Jack[/quote]

    Am I the only Lost fan who is so sick of Jack and his idiotic actions?
    How can we route for a hero who is so lame? His actions/instincts have been proven wrong time and again.

    His destruction of the Lighthouse mirrors really ices the cake.

    I’ve been hoping for his death since the 3rd season.
    If he uses that blinky almost crying thing once more I’m gonna puke. Fox isn’t anything but a ‘hacktor’.

    Please creators : Kill Off Jack Soon!

    The whole series should have been built around Desmond not Jack.

  234. Libby says:

    Never posted before- here are my thoughts. Some of the characters lives have not changed much. Sun is still seeking a separation, Kate is still on the run. However, Ben’s life was changed because he evacuated the island, Ethan also because he never went. Where it gets confusing is those characters whose lives are vastly different without explanation. What if the fate of the island affected Locke’s father in some way. He never became a con man. That is why Locke now has a good relationship with his dad. Maybe in the sideways timeline he did not become paralized due to the fall. What if Sawyer’s mother was never deceived and his parents are living now? We just haven’t seen them yet. And of course, Juliet never gets recruited by Ben and meets Jack as fellow doctors? Maybe she meets Sawyer and he is a great guy with no chip on his shoulder. Jack now has a child and will soon be finding his sister- good stuff. But if Desmond never finds the island he is simply lost to the sea. Hurley sees his luck as good now, before it was bad. Bottom line is the “island” saved some and hurt others.

    I can only guess at these things but here is what I believe. Physics states that time is not a straight line. I believe both time lines are “real”. All characters are existing in two places. That is why Claire knew Aaron’s name without thinking, Jack felt funny when he saw his scar, and Kate felt sad when she saw the whale Claire bought Aaron. What the writers have yet to tell us is what happened with the Whitmore rivalry once the island sank to the bottom of the sea and what happened prior to the 70’s. I agree the lighthouse was looking into the other “dimension”, not the past. Once we get those pieces, things will make more sense.

    For the record- it has got to be Desmond who is on the way.

    I love this show and I am just sorry to know that it is ever going to end.

  235. Amber says:

    [quote comment=”371224″][quote comment=”371222″]Im confused why some people are crossed off the list but arent dead. Does that just mean that they arent a candidate not because they are dead but just because they arent “qualified”[/quote]
    Linus is likely crossed of because he fell out of favor with the island/Jacob. Who else?[/quote]

    I checked lostpedia and it say that miles name is crossed out, and he isnt dead and i mean i guess he would be considered to be on jacobs side. I dont know I mean was he a candidate? why is he not qualified now? I think there is more to why people are crossed off

  236. Amber says:

    Also it seems that some of our people who were main characters in the begining (Boone, Shannon, Michael, Charlie) Well I dont see them on the wall at all. Were they just there to play other parts? Not to be candidates. Also just for the record I really dont think that the skeletons in the cave are going to be Rose and Bernard. Didnt the skeletons have the black and white rocks in there pockets? I could be wrong I dont remember, but it would be pretty random for Rose and Bernard to put the rocks in there pockets. Also they dont really seem very important to the story anymore I think it was the end of there story when we seen them all happy in the jungle. Its gotta be someone more exciting

  237. PJSander says:

    Jorge Garcia confirmed (from the script) that the reflections in the mirror were the Kwon’s temple, the church where Sawyer’s parents’ funerals were and Jack’s childhood home.

    : ) P

  238. Circus Mom says:

    My thoughts,

    Hammer, 170 & 172
    Linus is crossed off because it refers to Ben’s father.
    Littleton is crossed off because Claire is infected. (Died and reanimated?)

    Straume is crossed off not for miles but for his mother.

    176 Danielle tested Sayid in “Solitary” and he passed that time. The test was similar to what Dogun performed. Electric shock.

  239. DharmaGreg says:

    My vote is for 108 being MiB. He said that he used to be a man. Could he have been a candidate and turned down Jacob. I also don’t think that he is the bad guy, I think Jacob is. Does anyone think that the person that is coming could be one of the losties from the alternate timeline? Great to be on this site again.

  240. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371290″]Jorge Garcia confirmed (from the script) that the reflections in the mirror were the Kwon’s temple, the church where Sawyer’s parents’ funerals were and Jack’s childhood home.

    : ) P[/quote]

    There are four reflections though… there’s the temple, another Asian-looking structure, the church, and Jack’s home… what is the fourth?? That’s what almost makes me think that somehow Wallace is connected to Dogen (because the Asian structure popped up circa the 108 mark)… but it’s difficult to imagine how that could be.

  241. tara says:

    [quote comment=”371242″][quote comment=”371183″](1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.

    (2) What they do on the island at this juncture in its timeline will affect future events.

    (3) In this future, the lives of their future selves turned out differently as a result of their actions on the island in the current season- this is aside from the fact that in this timeline the plane never crashed. Thus Jack has a son etc etc.

    I’m guessing there will be a crude form of poetic justice involved. Thus, you do the right thing on the island, then your future self has a good life, the wrong thing and he/she has a lousy life.

    Strictly speaking this isn’t a parallel reality, as both sets of characters are inhabiting the same timeline.

    Still say I’m right about Smokey – but naturally everybody (including me) is entitled to their opinion.[/quote]

    Why is it that Locke on the island develops a great faith, sense of purpose, and belief in miracles, and Locke without the island experience lacks faith and a belief in miracles?

    What are these two realities? Are they side by side or is something else going on? One can’t simply be what would have happened had the plane not crashed–because the characters all seem to have an eery sense of events on the island and an eery lack of memory of their LA lives–as if the LA experience must follow the island experience in some way.

    Why is it that Hurley was having bad luck when the plane crashed, but in the new scenerio it seems he never experienced the bad luck? What changed for him, and is that linked to the island experience? Does he have “good luck” because he is willing to listen to Jacob and do what he is “called” to do?

    This would support your theor–that what the characters do on the island seals their fate in the “real world.” In that case, will Claire’s life then be in shambles? How about Linus? Shouldn’t his life be a wreck too?[/quote]

    I don’t think the factor for their lives being different is the plane not crashing. I think what the bomb did was prevent Jacob from ever visiting them in the first place. He menipulated all of there lives to go in the path to the island. Jacob never touched them so their paths went the way normal life would have gone. Getting married, having kids, doing business, etc.

    T

  242. tara says:

    [quote comment=”371263″]The whole “infection” thing may be the belief that if one is opposed to Jacob and his followers, then they get labeled as infected. They still have the free will to do what they want.

    I state that under the idea that Claire may not be infected, just influenced by her “friend.” Clearly it seems that her friend has led her to believe that the Jacob followers took her baby. One could theorize that he in the form of Christian, led her astray long enough for the baby to be found. We know what happens next.

    Then he comes back in his MIB form and befriends Claire, starts feeding her lies about who took her child, making her think it was the Jacob followers. This in turn pitted her against them, and they not knowing what happened to the baby, merely think she’s crazy.

    Also, maybe she sees FLocke as MIB, while everyone else sees Locke.

    I’m not sure that Claire is infected, but who the heck knows it’s nutty.[/quote]

    My question is why does everone believe everything Dogan says. Perhaps he is lying, Jacob has always been lying its all to menipulate everyone. I still say the ghost Jacob is MIB, Christian is MIB and I don’t think he is a evil as everyone thinks. Black is white and white is black. Remember the devil will make himself into an angle of light.

    T

  243. andre gr says:

    [quote comment=”371070″]So “Christian Sheppard” became Flocke as weve been thinking?[/quote]
    Here are my thoughts:

    I think MIB took the form of Christian when we saw him hold Claire’s baby in the jungle. He was as Christian with Claire when we saw them in the cabin with Locke. He turned into Smokey when he conveniently appeared in front of Ben who went to be judged in the temple.

    As we know from Ilana, MIB can’t be as another person any more.
    And a question for anyone that might have an answer:
    Who took the form of Alex when she appeared in the temple with Ben?

  244. sector7 says:

    After listening to the latest Darlton podcast, I get the impression that we’ve received all the explaination we’re going to get regarding the meaning of the numbers. The numbers are Jacobs list of candidates. The meaning of 4,8,15,16,23,42 is that each one represents one of the losties. They said (paraphrasing) they will not be able to completely explain the numbers to the fullest extent. I think speculation regarding the numbers having to do with the Valenzetti Equation is simply reading too much into it. Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?

  245. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371300″]After listening to the latest Darlton podcast, I get the impression that we’ve received all the explaination we’re going to get regarding the meaning of the numbers. The numbers are Jacobs list of candidates. The meaning of 4,8,15,16,23,42 is that each one represents one of the losties. They said (paraphrasing) they will not be able to completely explain the numbers to the fullest extent. I think speculation regarding the numbers having to do with the Valenzetti Equation is simply reading too much into it. Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]
    It’s only reading too much into it if you are a casual viewer. For all of us who followed the ARGs, we want to know.

  246. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371300″]After listening to the latest Darlton podcast, I get the impression that we’ve received all the explaination we’re going to get regarding the meaning of the numbers. The numbers are Jacobs list of candidates. The meaning of 4,8,15,16,23,42 is that each one represents one of the losties. They said (paraphrasing) they will not be able to completely explain the numbers to the fullest extent. I think speculation regarding the numbers having to do with the Valenzetti Equation is simply reading too much into it. Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]

    I read on Lostpedia that the numbers, explained in the Lost game, were targeted by the Dharma Initiative. Specifically, the DI was interested in “changing” one of the numbers in order to forestall the end of the world.

    Sooo… from Losties, Jacob, and Others standpoint, these numbers represent the candidates. From DI standpoint, these numbers predict the end of the world, and their mission (one of their missions) is to change this fate.

    Given that the DI is a well-funded scientific expedition, maybe they were able to deduce that these numbers are somehow representative of the island, and that they spell doom.

    From what we know, this may be true – the numbers are the candidates, they are important to the outcome of the Jacob/MIB war. If this war turns out badly, then perhaps it will mean the end of the world.

    Remember, Eloise tells Ben that if he cannot get all of the Oceanic Six back to the island, then “God help us all”.

  247. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371299″][quote comment=”371070″]So “Christian Sheppard” became Flocke as weve been thinking?[/quote]
    Here are my thoughts:

    I think MIB took the form of Christian when we saw him hold Claire’s baby in the jungle. He was as Christian with Claire when we saw them in the cabin with Locke. He turned into Smokey when he conveniently appeared in front of Ben who went to be judged in the temple.

    As we know from Ilana, MIB can’t be as another person any more.
    And a question for anyone that might have an answer:
    Who took the form of Alex when she appeared in the temple with Ben?[/quote]

    My prediction is that Jacob is Jacob, and MIB is MIB. Jacob is good, MIB is bad.

    We are too far into the story to have to keep guessing on the direction that this series is going… there are only a handful of episodes left, so I think it’s safe to say that we don’t have to worry anymore about who is good and who is bad.

    The story has unraveled just enough so that we know which direction it’s heading in.

    By all means, if this were the third season, it would be perfectly acceptable for us to be wondering if Jacob is really good, or if MIB is portraying Jacob… but we’re too close to the end for this now.

    IMO.

  248. WTF says:

    [quote comment=”371286″][quote comment=”371068″]F’in Jack[/quote]

    Am I the only Lost fan who is so sick of Jack and his idiotic actions?
    How can we route for a hero who is so lame? His actions/instincts have been proven wrong time and again.

    His destruction of the Lighthouse mirrors really ices the cake.

    I’ve been hoping for his death since the 3rd season.
    If he uses that blinky almost crying thing once more I’m gonna puke. Fox isn’t anything but a ‘hacktor’.

    Please creators : Kill Off Jack Soon!

    The whole series should have been built around Desmond not Jack.[/quote]

    NO, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE.

  249. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371302″][quote comment=”371300″]After listening to the latest Darlton podcast, I get the impression that we’ve received all the explaination we’re going to get regarding the meaning of the numbers. The numbers are Jacobs list of candidates. The meaning of 4,8,15,16,23,42 is that each one represents one of the losties. They said (paraphrasing) they will not be able to completely explain the numbers to the fullest extent. I think speculation regarding the numbers having to do with the Valenzetti Equation is simply reading too much into it. Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]

    I read on Lostpedia that the numbers, explained in the Lost game, were targeted by the Dharma Initiative. Specifically, the DI was interested in “changing” one of the numbers in order to forestall the end of the world.

    Sooo… from Losties, Jacob, and Others standpoint, these numbers represent the candidates. From DI standpoint, these numbers predict the end of the world, and their mission (one of their missions) is to change this fate.

    Given that the DI is a well-funded scientific expedition, maybe they were able to deduce that these numbers are somehow representative of the island, and that they spell doom.

    From what we know, this may be true – the numbers are the candidates, they are important to the outcome of the Jacob/MIB war. If this war turns out badly, then perhaps it will mean the end of the world.

    Remember, Eloise tells Ben that if he cannot get all of the Oceanic Six back to the island, then “God help us all”.[/quote]
    Exactly what I have been saying. DI’s work (time traveling experiments) was to change a factor in the equation. Factors=the numbers=candidates=the Losties, Valenzetti wanted one of those six number/people ‘changed’ to stop the end of the world.

  250. Miss lost says:

    I don’t think the factor for their lives being different is the plane not crashing. I think what the bomb did was prevent Jacob from ever visiting them in the first place. He menipulated all of there lives to go in the path to the island. Jacob never touched them so their paths went the way normal life would have gone. Getting married, having kids, doing business, etc.

    T

    **************
    IMO Jacob had the ability to go see the candidates at any time of their lives. I think he could do this with the mirrors. As stated earlier and enhanced by another, I think Jacob could get to them thru the mirrors, either in their past, present or future! He also touched them at different times in their lives so I don’t think the bomb going off altered Jacob’s abilty to reach them.
    I also think that somehow, some way their on island experiences HAVE happened! Their paths have crossed already. That is why Jack keeps getting that De ja vu look when he sees the other characters in the sideways version.

    for what it is worth…I agree that Jacob wanted Jack to smash the mirrors! I also think this was so MIB could not utilize them.

  251. Jason says:

    [quote comment=”371278″][quote comment=”371264″]Arrived on the island very pregnant.

    Had her baby, then had her baby kidnapped.

    Lives in the jungle, carries a rifle and sets traps.

    Has captured someone from OA815.
    – – – –
    Who did I just describe?
    A. Danielle
    B. Claire
    C. Both[/quote]
    Danielle……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]
    ________________________________
    True, but SHE was kidnapped and her baby injected……

  252. Miss lost says:

    Exactly what I have been saying. DI’s work (time traveling experiments) was to change a factor in the equation. Factors=the numbers=candidates=the Losties, Valenzetti wanted one of those six number/people ‘changed’ to stop the end of the world.
    **********
    For me this is a huge piece of the puzzle not figured out. Who funded DI? How do Widmore and Hawkings fit in to the equation? Are they linked to DI?

    I know that we still need a back story for DI (not sure if we will get it) and then I would love a better connection of Widmore and Hawkings and their child or children (penny and faraday…are they biological brother and sister?)
    I am hoping that we get answers to some of that or I will be wondering why it seemed so important for so long!
    Ben and Widmore’s age old struggle for power and the rules of the game remind me of Jacob and MIB!

  253. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”371301″][quote comment=”371300″]After listening to the latest Darlton podcast, I get the impression that we’ve received all the explaination we’re going to get regarding the meaning of the numbers. The numbers are Jacobs list of candidates. The meaning of 4,8,15,16,23,42 is that each one represents one of the losties. They said (paraphrasing) they will not be able to completely explain the numbers to the fullest extent. I think speculation regarding the numbers having to do with the Valenzetti Equation is simply reading too much into it. Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]
    It’s only reading too much into it if you are a casual viewer. For all of us who followed the ARGs, we want to know.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    My wife would laugh at the thought of someone calling me a casual viewer (I don’t think you’re calling me one – just sayin’ ;)). Hammer, you should know this: Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?

  254. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371308″]
    Ben and Widmore’s age old struggle for power and the rules of the game remind me of Jacob and MIB![/quote]
    It seems their struggle is what got them into trouble. They were doing exactly what MIB said: “They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.”

  255. Miss lost says:

    So someone mentioned the skeletons earlier. I do think they are significant or they would not have had Jack and Hurley revisit the caves. I am not sure who they are as I too have thought they could be Rose and Bernard. We know that they were on the island, they represent light and dark and one man and one woman (Jack stated that they were a man and a woman). I do think it is important that they were found with a white and black stone.

    I have thought it could be MIB and Jacob but they are both men.
    How about MIB and Jacob being brothers and the skeletons their parents? Maybe the skeletons are not old enough but I don’t know. The inner turmoil between MIB and Jacob is deep and I think maybe may lead us to learn that they are related…just a thought.

  256. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371309″][quote comment=”371301″][quote comment=”371300″]After listening to the latest Darlton podcast, I get the impression that we’ve received all the explaination we’re going to get regarding the meaning of the numbers. The numbers are Jacobs list of candidates. The meaning of 4,8,15,16,23,42 is that each one represents one of the losties. They said (paraphrasing) they will not be able to completely explain the numbers to the fullest extent. I think speculation regarding the numbers having to do with the Valenzetti Equation is simply reading too much into it. Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]
    It’s only reading too much into it if you are a casual viewer. For all of us who followed the ARGs, we want to know.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    My wife would laugh at the thought of someone calling me a casual viewer (I don’t think you’re calling me one – just sayin’ ;)). Hammer, you should know this: Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]
    I don’t believe so. I think what they said about the ARGs is that you don’t need them to watch the series and know what is going on…it’s just extra info. So you don’t need to know about Valenzetti’s equation using the numbers…just that the numbers are important to the story.

  257. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371306″]I don’t think the factor for their lives being different is the plane not crashing. I think what the bomb did was prevent Jacob from ever visiting them in the first place. He menipulated all of there lives to go in the path to the island. Jacob never touched them so their paths went the way normal life would have gone. Getting married, having kids, doing business, etc.

    T

    **************
    IMO Jacob had the ability to go see the candidates at any time of their lives. I think he could do this with the mirrors. As stated earlier and enhanced by another, I think Jacob could get to them thru the mirrors, either in their past, present or future! He also touched them at different times in their lives so I don’t think the bomb going off altered Jacob’s abilty to reach them.
    I also think that somehow, some way their on island experiences HAVE happened! Their paths have crossed already. That is why Jack keeps getting that De ja vu look when he sees the other characters in the sideways version.

    for what it is worth…I agree that Jacob wanted Jack to smash the mirrors! I also think this was so MIB could not utilize them.[/quote]

    I was thinking this too… especially when we see Jacob visit little Kate and little Sawyer… he seems to try to influence them away from the path they choose in the first timeline… he tells Kate to be good, and tells Sawyer to forgive and forget… these are not the adult Kate and Sawyer we see in the first seasons! These are likely the Kate and Sawyer we see in the new timeline.

    The only thing is – we know he visited our friends in the original timeline too – he visits Hurley in between island stays, and visits Locke after he gets pushed out the window by his dad.

    (we know new timeline Locke was not pushed out by his dad…)

    So, I think you’re right – he does have the ability to visit our friends in different dimensions/timelines. And, I think he visited them in order to change their lives for the better in the new timeline.

    Maybe he visits little Jack and gives him appendicitis =)

  258. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment=”371295″]My vote is for 108 being MiB. He said that he used to be a man. Could he have been a candidate and turned down Jacob. I also don’t think that he is the bad guy, I think Jacob is. Does anyone think that the person that is coming could be one of the losties from the alternate timeline? Great to be on this site again.[/quote]

    This might be a little out there but here it goes….

    Maybe 108 is Jacob, since the sum of all the numbers equal 108..this number could be given to the leader or protector at that time, and since Jacob is dead it makes sense that 108 would be crossed off. As far as the “person” comming to the island…i think it may be Jack…Jacob may be pushing jack to become the leader he is supposed to be instead of the broken man he is now…I do however think Hurley will be the next Richard Alpert….Since Jacob can tell Hurley to basically do anything it doesnt seem as if Hurley would be considered a good protector, Jack on the other hand cannot be told anything, he has to use his “free will” to make certain decisions and all Jacob can do is nudge him in the right direction.

  259. Miraks says:

    OK. Going back to an earlier thought. So the fact that Aaron did not return to the island as part of the six still bothers me. I am almost convinced that when Jack was told “You’re not supposed to raise him”, and Kate was told “Don’t bring him back”, the HIM was not Aaron as was assumed, but the HIM was Locke. I think Aaron WAS supposed to come back, and is a major key in the battle. Maybe he’ll come back with Wallace?

  260. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371310″][quote comment=”371308″]
    Ben and Widmore’s age old struggle for power and the rules of the game remind me of Jacob and MIB![/quote]
    It seems their struggle is what got them into trouble. They were doing exactly what MIB said: “They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.”[/quote]

    To me it seems that MIB and Jacob have both tried to manipulate each character. I’d guess that Widmore was taken out of favor due to Ben, and I’d guess that Ben took him out of favor dur to MIB. Both MIB and Jacob cannot influence the peoples actions in any way,,, and as human history has shown, we do lie, corrupt, steal etc. Its natural. Jacobs job is to guide people onto a straighter path, MIBs is to guide them into a crooked one. Its pretty simple to me.

    Now, I’d have to say that characters like Ben and Widmore have been so influenced by both over the years, that they have modeled some of their own beliefs after them (“rules” etc.) for means of power… you stick with what works, you know?

    On a side note, I think that MIB has not only killed Jacob, but also brought himself to life. Allowing himself to work on the living side to influence others, instead of the dead side. Jacob, being dead, can now only work as MIB had prior… apparitions and so forth, hence appearing as the blonde boy that MIB/Locke sees, and now the temple water being responsible for infection…

  261. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371314″][quote comment=”371295″]My vote is for 108 being MiB. He said that he used to be a man. Could he have been a candidate and turned down Jacob. I also don’t think that he is the bad guy, I think Jacob is. Does anyone think that the person that is coming could be one of the losties from the alternate timeline? Great to be on this site again.[/quote]

    This might be a little out there but here it goes….

    Maybe 108 is Jacob, since the sum of all the numbers equal 108..this number could be given to the leader or protector at that time, and since Jacob is dead it makes sense that 108 would be crossed off. As far as the “person” comming to the island…i think it may be Jack…Jacob may be pushing jack to become the leader he is supposed to be instead of the broken man he is now…I do however think Hurley will be the next Richard Alpert….Since Jacob can tell Hurley to basically do anything it doesnt seem as if Hurley would be considered a good protector, Jack on the other hand cannot be told anything, he has to use his “free will” to make certain decisions and all Jacob can do is nudge him in the right direction.[/quote]

    I like it. A lot.

    Plus, isn’t god “#7″ supposed to be the “sum” of the devil and man? (My biblical knowledge is limited, I apologize…)

    Also, I very much agree that Hurley is in no way prepped to be the next Jacob, nor was he ever intended for that purpose… he is a good right-hand-man, messenger, etc… he is certainly not supposed to be the leader.

    Good theory!

  262. Jason says:

    the blonde boy that MIB/Locke sees,
    _________________________________________
    Anyone wonder why Sawyer can see him too??

  263. Murphey says:

    [quote comment=”371312″][quote comment=”371309″][quote comment=”371301″][quote comment=”371300″]After listening to the latest Darlton podcast, I get the impression that we’ve received all the explaination we’re going to get regarding the meaning of the numbers. The numbers are Jacobs list of candidates. The meaning of 4,8,15,16,23,42 is that each one represents one of the losties. They said (paraphrasing) they will not be able to completely explain the numbers to the fullest extent. I think speculation regarding the numbers having to do with the Valenzetti Equation is simply reading too much into it. Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]
    It’s only reading too much into it if you are a casual viewer. For all of us who followed the ARGs, we want to know.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    My wife would laugh at the thought of someone calling me a casual viewer (I don’t think you’re calling me one – just sayin’ ;)). Hammer, you should know this: Have Darlton ever said the Valenzetti Equation was canon?[/quote]
    I don’t believe so. I think what they said about the ARGs is that you don’t need them to watch the series and know what is going on…it’s just extra info. So you don’t need to know about Valenzetti’s equation using the numbers…just that the numbers are important to the story.[/quote]

    I asked this a couple of weeks back and found this. It is canon:

    Damon Lindelof: I would say in terms of all the… background that we did, in terms of the Valenzetti equation and explaining the formation of the Hanso Foundation and doing the other films…we’d consider that stuff cannon to the show.

    http://www.buddytv.com/articles/lost/buddytv-interviews-losts-damon-4766.aspx

  264. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371318″]the blonde boy that MIB/Locke sees,
    _________________________________________
    Anyone wonder why Sawyer can see him too??[/quote]
    My thought is that the boy is real and alive. Richard didn’t see him because his back was to him (thanks Bacon).

  265. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371315″]OK. Going back to an earlier thought. So the fact that Aaron did not return to the island as part of the six still bothers me. I am almost convinced that when Jack was told “You’re not supposed to raise him”, and Kate was told “Don’t bring him back”, the HIM was not Aaron as was assumed, but the HIM was Locke. I think Aaron WAS supposed to come back, and is a major key in the battle. Maybe he’ll come back with Wallace?[/quote]

    We need to keep in mind that Aaron is 3… I don’t know that there’s a whole lot that he can do. I think that his role in the story is more secondary – Claire and others are looking for him, actions occur surrounding that…

    Plus, I shudder to think of a child actor playing an important part in this series… that will make it too kvetchy!

  266. Jason says:

    [quote comment=”371320″][quote comment=”371318″]the blonde boy that MIB/Locke sees,
    _________________________________________
    Anyone wonder why Sawyer can see him too??[/quote]
    My thought is that the boy is real and alive. Richard didn’t see him because his back was to him (thanks Bacon).[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Really? I did not realize Richard was turned around….Ok, well in that case, your theory seems pretty sound.

  267. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371320″][quote comment=”371318″]the blonde boy that MIB/Locke sees,
    _________________________________________
    Anyone wonder why Sawyer can see him too??[/quote]
    My thought is that the boy is real and alive. Richard didn’t see him because his back was to him (thanks Bacon).[/quote]

    But wait, wasnt Flocke suprised that Sawyer could see him? Didn’t he say “you can see him?” -I only watched the ep once, so I dont know… I read that here.

  268. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371319″][quote comment=”371312″][quote comment=”371309″][quote comment=”371301″][quote comment=”371300″][/quote][/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    I asked this a couple of weeks back and found this. It is canon:

    Damon Lindelof: I would say in terms of all the… background that we did, in terms of the Valenzetti equation and explaining the formation of the Hanso Foundation and doing the other films…we’d consider that stuff cannon to the show.

    http://www.buddytv.com/articles/lost/buddytv-interviews-losts-damon-4766.aspx%5B/quote%5D

    Good job. So it is canon, but I don’t think the Valenzetti equation was even mentioned on the show. So even if it is canon, they don’t have to explain the numers in terms of Valenzetti.

    I can’t find it, but I do remember a podcast or interview where D or C said that ARG stuff is not needed to watch the show.

  269. wallyp says:

    I might be able to believe 108 is the MIB (his original self), I’m not sure yet though. I do like the fact that the numbers would add up to his number, as well as the valenzetti. Hell, he could have not been a real human, and at one point in time, snuck himself onto the list (as that dude from last seasons finale?), to try and take Jacobs spot himself… Maybe thats his real game… I do think that these numbers were destined to work in MIBs favor somehow and Jacob just didnt catch it until it was too late…

  270. Miss lost says:

    I do like the idea that Hurley would make a better Richard than leader. I am not convinced that I think it is going to be Jack. I think Jack has a different reason to be on the island. I think he was or is a candidate but I think in the long run he is going to be there to “save” his dad. Most of jack’s problems seem to stem from his strained relationship with his dad. We were able to see jack’s dad tell Sawyer at the bar that he had a great son and he wished he had told him how proud of him he was. He even says he was proud that he was brave enough to turn him in to the board in regards to being intoxicated during the surgery.
    His dad had these feelings for him but did not know how to show them. Jack is broken and he is searching for answers. I think Hurley may be able to help since he can communicate with the dead.
    I think Jack will ultimately find his dad and bring him home and finally have some closure with that chapter of his life.
    We have already seen him have a sort of break through as he reached out to his own son and told him the things I think he always yearned to hear his dad say!
    So even though Jack was a candidate, I don’t think he is going to be the new Jacob…I think it is going to be someone else.

  271. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371323″][quote comment=”371320″][quote comment=”371318″]the blonde boy that MIB/Locke sees,
    _________________________________________
    Anyone wonder why Sawyer can see him too??[/quote]
    My thought is that the boy is real and alive. Richard didn’t see him because his back was to him (thanks Bacon).[/quote]

    But wait, wasnt Flocke suprised that Sawyer could see him? Didn’t he say “you can see him?”

    -I only watched the ep once, so I dont know… I read that here.[/quote]
    He may have been surprised.

    [Sawyer sees the blond boy standing in the jungle … Locke sees him too]
    SAWYER: Who the hell’s that?
    LOCKE: You can see him?
    SAWYER: The kid? Hell yeah I can see him.

  272. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371326″]I do like the idea that Hurley would make a better Richard than leader. I am not convinced that I think it is going to be Jack. I think Jack has a different reason to be on the island. I think he was or is a candidate but I think in the long run he is going to be there to “save” his dad. Most of jack’s problems seem to stem from his strained relationship with his dad. We were able to see jack’s dad tell Sawyer at the bar that he had a great son and he wished he had told him how proud of him he was. He even says he was proud that he was brave enough to turn him in to the board in regards to being intoxicated during the surgery.
    His dad had these feelings for him but did not know how to show them. Jack is broken and he is searching for answers. I think Hurley may be able to help since he can communicate with the dead.
    I think Jack will ultimately find his dad and bring him home and finally have some closure with that chapter of his life.
    We have already seen him have a sort of break through as he reached out to his own son and told him the things I think he always yearned to hear his dad say!
    So even though Jack was a candidate, I don’t think he is going to be the new Jacob…I think it is going to be someone else.[/quote]

    I’m not sure that anyone is meant to take Jacob’s place – but I do think that the “candidates” are ones who can potentially stop MIB from doing whatever damage he’s plotting.

    Jacob made it pretty clear that Jack is to play a very important role in this, in saving the island, protecting it, whatever… this may include some altercation with his father, but I don’t think his purpose is to change relations with his father. That’s been done, in both timelines – he now needs to focus on the future, in both timelines.

    He mended things with his son in the new timeline, so bravo for him – this was clearly indicative of him finally making the right decisions.

    Now he has to make the right decision in the old timeline. Jacob says that his role is very important, so this likely means that he will have to fix this pesky MIB situation.

  273. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371280″][quote comment=”371278″]……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]

    Wrong. The Answer is C. …C. (Both)

    (btw. Claire did have her baby kidnapped. It was a very big plotline a few years back.)[/quote]
    No she did not!!!!!!!! Look it up. Sawyer found Aaron in the jungle he was not kidnapped. Check your facts.

  274. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371329″][quote comment=”371280″][quote comment=”371278″]……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]

    Wrong. The Answer is C. …C. (Both)

    (btw. Claire did have her baby kidnapped. It was a very big plotline a few years back.)[/quote]
    No she did not!!!!!!!! Look it up. Sawyer found Aaron in the jungle he was not kidnapped. Check your facts.[/quote]

    Danielle kidnapped Aaron… I think in season two? She intended to give Aaron over to the Others, thinking that she could exchange Aaron for Alex…

  275. Duke says:

    I was wrong about Aaron being “kidnapped” Danielle did take him thinking that she could get Alex back but I did not consider that when I posted because I do not believe that that was the situation that Claire was talking about when she was speaking with Jin because she got him back after only a few hours. So I still stick with my original answer about the post referring to Danielle. Claire lost Aaron because she left him in the jungle.

  276. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371330″][quote comment=”371329″][quote comment=”371280″][quote comment=”371278″]……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]

    Wrong. The Answer is C. …C. (Both)

    (btw. Claire did have her baby kidnapped. It was a very big plotline a few years back.)[/quote]
    No she did not!!!!!!!! Look it up. Sawyer found Aaron in the jungle he was not kidnapped. Check your facts.[/quote]

    Danielle kidnapped Aaron… I think in season two? She intended to give Aaron over to the Others, thinking that she could exchange Aaron for Alex…[/quote]

    Also, Charlie kidnapped Aaron in order to Baptize him, though that was very short-lived.

  277. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371330″][quote comment=”371329″][quote comment=”371280″][quote comment=”371278″]……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]

    Wrong. The Answer is C. …C. (Both)

    (btw. Claire did have her baby kidnapped. It was a very big plotline a few years back.)[/quote]
    No she did not!!!!!!!! Look it up. Sawyer found Aaron in the jungle he was not kidnapped. Check your facts.[/quote]

    Danielle kidnapped Aaron… I think in season two? She intended to give Aaron over to the Others, thinking that she could exchange Aaron for Alex…[/quote]
    ******
    ditto that answer. Aaron was recovered pretty quickly. In the end the child they came after was Walt!

  278. Jason says:

    [quote comment=”371330″][quote comment=”371329″][quote comment=”371280″][quote comment=”371278″]……Claire did not have her baby kidnapped. She left it in the jungle for Sawyer to find when she followed her father.[/quote]

    Wrong. The Answer is C. …C. (Both)

    (btw. Claire did have her baby kidnapped. It was a very big plotline a few years back.)[/quote]
    No she did not!!!!!!!! Look it up. Sawyer found Aaron in the jungle he was not kidnapped. Check your facts.[/quote]

    Danielle kidnapped Aaron… I think in season two? She intended to give Aaron over to the Others, thinking that she could exchange Aaron for Alex…[/quote]
    [quote comment=”371327″][quote comment=”371323″][quote comment=”371320″][quote comment=”371318″]the blonde boy that MIB/Locke sees,
    _________________________________________
    Anyone wonder why Sawyer can see him too??[/quote]
    My thought is that the boy is real and alive. Richard didn’t see him because his back was to him (thanks Bacon).[/quote]

    But wait, wasnt Flocke suprised that Sawyer could see him? Didn’t he say “you can see him?”

    -I only watched the ep once, so I dont know… I read that here.[/quote]
    He may have been surprised.

    [Sawyer sees the blond boy standing in the jungle … Locke sees him too]
    SAWYER: Who the hell’s that?
    LOCKE: You can see him?
    SAWYER: The kid? Hell yeah I can see him.[/quote]

  279. Jason says:

    He may have been surprised.

    [Sawyer sees the blond boy standing in the jungle … Locke sees him too]
    SAWYER: Who the hell’s that?
    LOCKE: You can see him?
    SAWYER: The kid? Hell yeah I can see him.[/quote][/quote]
    ___________________________________________
    So if FLocke was surprised Sawyer could see him, that would imply that he is not alive or able to be seen by everyone. So Sawyer is “special” in some way?

  280. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371335″]He may have been surprised.

    [Sawyer sees the blond boy standing in the jungle … Locke sees him too]
    SAWYER: Who the hell’s that?
    LOCKE: You can see him?
    SAWYER: The kid? Hell yeah I can see him.[/quote][/quote]
    ___________________________________________
    So if FLocke was surprised Sawyer could see him, that would imply that he is not alive or able to be seen by everyone. So Sawyer is “special” in some way?[/quote]
    **********
    It seems that things associated with Jacob can be seen when he wants them to be seen…his cabin, the lighthouse, and now the boy…so maybe there is a reason he wanted Sawyer to see the boy. I don’t really think Sawyer is on MIB side…I think you can’t con a con man…he is one step a head of MIB imo! He is trying to put the pieces together as best as can and I think it is like the old adage, “keep your enemies closer!”

  281. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371335″]He may have been surprised.

    [Sawyer sees the blond boy standing in the jungle … Locke sees him too]
    SAWYER: Who the hell’s that?
    LOCKE: You can see him?
    SAWYER: The kid? Hell yeah I can see him.[/quote][/quote]
    ___________________________________________
    So if FLocke was surprised Sawyer could see him, that would imply that he is not alive or able to be seen by everyone. So Sawyer is “special” in some way?[/quote]
    I suppose, but the boy running implies that he is real and alive because apparitions don’t have to run away…they can just disappear. So implied is subjective. I feel that anyone can see the boy…for now anyway.

  282. Hammer says:

    [Sawyer sees the blond boy standing in the jungle … Locke sees him too]
    SAWYER: Who the hell’s that?
    LOCKE: You can see him?
    SAWYER: The kid? Hell yeah I can see him.

  283. Hammer says:

    Time to revive my whisperers theory.

    Jacob is a now a whisperer. According to my theory, the whisperers can expose themselves but as of yet have chose to not.

    Jacob is exposing himself to Hugo because Hugo is now comfortable with seeing the dead.

  284. LizS says:

    to TOEKNEE & WTF–re: killing off Jack
    You’se are just jealous because you can’t do that eye-cry thing!!! ; )

    re: Jacob & MIB’s nature—
    I don’t know, good v. evil is probably simplistic, and it’s probably not All-Encompassing, like God v. the Devil. And you have to think that since the struggle started an unspecified Long Time Ago, probably BCE, the idea of good and evil and the parameters of life and death probably aren’t framed the same way we frame them in our modern culture.

    Jacob is always Jacob, as far as we know. MIB changes form, and has a bad temper, and feels anger and hate. He is manipulative. He lies. (Hmm, sounds like Ben) Something Jacob is or does seems to keep MIB in check, though it doesn’t stop MIB from wreaking havoc and killing on The Island. And Jacob doesn’t seem to interfere with that. Does that make Jacob ‘bad’? It’s a question you can argue, but I don’t think so.

    How, exactly, does Jacob influence our numbered candidates? One encounter at a vulnerable time in their lives? What, does he ‘infect’ them with Island-itis?

    Does watching them count as influencing them? I don’t think so.

    OTOH, we do see MIB lie, influence through taking the form of dead loved ones and dead hated ones, and manipulate to get what he wants—to go home? Whatever that means to him, and if it’s the truth.

    So going with black and white, I’m sticking with white rock Jacob as the ‘Good’ Being. Good-er at least.

  285. LizS says:

    back to Jacob–I mean he does manipulate Hugo and Jack to get them away from the Temple–he says for their safety, and he says, sorry. I mean, obviously he has some Big Picture stuff going on, which he doesn’t deign to share with the Ordinary Mortals, and that he seems to care about them–but we American-type folks don’t take kindly to the Pawn thing.

    Does that make him ‘bad’?

    Oh, those pesky godlings, shoving we mortals here and there on their chessboard!

  286. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371339″]Time to revive my whisperers theory.

    Jacob is a now a whisperer. According to my theory, the whisperers can expose themselves but as of yet have chose to not.

    Jacob is exposing himself to Hugo because Hugo is now comfortable with seeing the dead.[/quote]
    Which has me rethinking whether blonde boy is dead. He may be a whisperer who decided to expose himself to Sawyer?

  287. LizS says:

    re: INFECTION

    I don’t know if y’all have gone here with this, and please forgive me if its old ground, but in Egyptian mythos, the human soul has many parts–and maybe if one part ‘escapes’ through death or near-death, or some other circumstance, that leaves room for some Smokie-born infection.

    So, maybe torture and electric shock check for that missing bit.

    Or, that could be a stupid idea on my part.

    Not that I mind sharing! ; )

  288. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”371343″][quote comment=”371339″]Time to revive my whisperers theory.

    [/quote]
    Which has me rethinking whether blonde boy is dead. He may be a whisperer who decided to expose himself to Sawyer?[/quote]

    I think he’s alive, and Smokie is under stress, not able to tell for a moment who’s dead or alive. Or MAYBE it’s the whisper of Jacob’s spirit from millennia ago reminding Smokie of when they first met. I kinda like that–start feeling the guilt, Smokie!

  289. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371345″][quote comment=”371343″][quote comment=”371339″]Time to revive my whisperers theory.

    [/quote]
    Which has me rethinking whether blonde boy is dead. He may be a whisperer who decided to expose himself to Sawyer?[/quote]

    MAYBE it’s the whisper of Jacob’s spirit from millennia ago reminding Smokie of when they first met. I kinda like that–start feeling the guilt, Smokie![/quote]

    I can roll with that.

  290. LostJunkie says:

    Yeah, Hammer, I think the blond boy is “dead”, and not a real live person. The reason he ran off was for the story–so that Flocke would run after him, leave Sawyer alone for a bit, and allow Richard to appear to him without Flocke there. Just part of the story.

  291. Jason says:

    [quote comment=”371348″]Yeah, Hammer, I think the blond boy is “dead”, and not a real live person. The reason he ran off was for the story–so that Flocke would run after him, leave Sawyer alone for a bit, and allow Richard to appear to him without Flocke there. Just part of the story.[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    But Sawyer could see him and Richard couldn’t (or maybe didn’t) I’m not sure which…that has to mean something.

  292. wallyp says:

    Ok, it could mean that the boy did not want Richard too see him then. He dissapeared as Richard turned around the first time, and he ran off as Richard approached the second time.

  293. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”371314″][quote comment=”371295″]My vote is for 108 being MiB. He said that he used to be a man. Could he have been a candidate and turned down Jacob. I also don’t think that he is the bad guy, I think Jacob is. Does anyone think that the person that is coming could be one of the losties from the alternate timeline? Great to be on this site again.[/quote]

    This might be a little out there but here it goes….

    Maybe 108 is Jacob, since the sum of all the numbers equal 108..this number could be given to the leader or protector at that time, and since Jacob is dead it makes sense that 108 would be crossed off. As far as the “person” comming to the island…i think it may be Jack…Jacob may be pushing jack to become the leader he is supposed to be instead of the broken man he is now…I do however think Hurley will be the next Richard Alpert….Since Jacob can tell Hurley to basically do anything it doesnt seem as if Hurley would be considered a good protector, Jack on the other hand cannot be told anything, he has to use his “free will” to make certain decisions and all Jacob can do is nudge him in the right direction.[/quote]
    I like this better than any of the other new theories I have seen for this epi. If hurley had gotting the setting to 108 then perhaps we, and Jack, would have seen where Jacob came from.

    I also agree with post 280 that said Jack is the one comming to the island. If he had seen where Jacob came from he would have understood and he would have ‘changed’ into the Jack he needs to become. Now he needs to stare at the Ocean and “find a way there’ himself.

  294. Circus Mom says:

    The boy didn’t run because Flock could hurt him. He ran to make Flock follow him. JMO

  295. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371330″]

    Danielle kidnapped Aaron… I think in season two? She intended to give Aaron over to the Others, thinking that she could exchange Aaron for Alex…[/quote]
    That was in the S1 finale

  296. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371341″]to TOEKNEE & WTF–re: killing off Jack
    You’se are just jealous because you can’t do that eye-cry thing!!! ; )
    [/quote]
    LOL I didn’t necessarily want Jack killed off; I just thought the mirror thing was cool and wanted to see what else it might show, so I was pissed that he broke it.

  297. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371228″]Jack did not mean Sarah until 2001, which would exclude her from being David’s mother? Maybe his ex is Penny.[/quote]
    Unless in the alternate timeline Jack and Sarah meet each earlier much earlier in their lives. I doubt that’s the case, but it’s a possibility.

  298. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371183″](1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.

    [/quote]
    The main reason I don’t think this is the case is that at the very beginning of “LA X”, they were at the location of the crater where the Swan hatch formerly existed.

  299. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371356″][quote comment=”371183″](1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.

    [/quote]
    The main reason I don’t think this is the case is that at the very beginning of “LA X”, they were at the location of the crater where the Swan hatch formerly existed.[/quote]
    ********
    I also think they tried to show us when they were. We knew what year Sawyer and group was in the DI and as for the Aijira plane they said it was a 30 yr difference. We knew that Sun and Ben et al were in 2007. Whatever happened when Juliette blew or did’t blow up the bomb there was a definate flash and it appeared that they flashed to 2007. So i don’t think they are on the island at an earlier date.

  300. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”371354″][quote comment=”371341″]to TOEKNEE & WTF–re: killing off Jack
    You’se are just jealous because you can’t do that eye-cry thing!!! ; )
    [/quote]
    LOL I didn’t necessarily want Jack killed off; I just thought the mirror thing was cool and wanted to see what else it might show, so I was pissed that he broke it.[/quote]
    LOL, ah, yes, I was upset with that, too–but Jacob didn’t seem to be, which I don’t get, unless, hey, Jack’s gonna build his own cool stuff when he takes Jacob’s place—

    OR “It only ends once” does that mean the struggle btw Jacob & MIB is gonna be FINISHED by our Candidates, and thus the Island gets to sink, and the sideways flashes really are ‘life goes on…’ a reward for ending this battle…

    or would that be a cheat???

  301. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment=”371358″][quote comment=”371354″][quote comment=”371341″]to TOEKNEE & WTF–re: killing off Jack
    You’se are just jealous because you can’t do that eye-cry thing!!! ; )
    [/quote]
    LOL I didn’t necessarily want Jack killed off; I just thought the mirror thing was cool and wanted to see what else it might show, so I was pissed that he broke it.[/quote]
    LOL, ah, yes, I was upset with that, too–but Jacob didn’t seem to be, which I don’t get, unless, hey, Jack’s gonna build his own cool stuff when he takes Jacob’s place—

    OR “It only ends once” does that mean the struggle btw Jacob & MIB is gonna be FINISHED by our Candidates, and thus the Island gets to sink, and the sideways flashes really are ‘life goes on…’ a reward for ending this battle…

    or would that be a cheat???[/quote]
    I think they were 360 candidates to be claimed by either MIB or Jacob. There’s only 5 left to our knowledge. Sawyer is recruited, Sahid is claimed. I’d say Hurley is recruited by Jacob. Is that what Jack has to do? Decide to fight the evil on the island? What happens when the last candidate is claimed? Game over?
    Btw, David was a candidate for the conservatory.

  302. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”371359″]
    I think they were 360 candidates to be claimed by either MIB or Jacob. There’s only 5 left to our knowledge. Sawyer is recruited, Sahid is claimed. I’d say Hurley is recruited by Jacob. Is that what Jack has to do? Decide to fight the evil on the island? What happens when the last candidate is claimed? Game over?
    Btw, David was a candidate for the conservatory.[/quote]
    * Consider this – Hurley started seeing visions of “Jacob” at the VW van AFTER Jacob went up in flames in the statue. PERHAPS Hugo is NOT in contact with apparition Jacob — the visions are really MIB pretending he is Jacob.

  303. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371360″]
    * Consider this – Hurley started seeing visions of “Jacob” at the VW van AFTER Jacob went up in flames in the statue. PERHAPS Hugo is NOT in contact with apparition Jacob — the visions are really MIB pretending he is Jacob.[/quote]
    Hmmmm….Interesting, but this kind of hurts my mind to think about.

    Are you saying MIB is taking on the appearance of Locke and Jacob simultaneously? And what about Ilana’s claim that he’s now stuck looking like Locke?

  304. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371230″]A thought on what the torture reveals about being infected or not. Didn’t Rousseau also torture Sayid to test him somehow? Did he pass the test back then? If so, how is his reaction different than now?[/quote]
    I don’t think Rousseau was torturing Sayid to “test” him, I think she really was trying to find out where Alex was, just like she said in that scene. She thought Sayid was an Other. I don’t think she’d bother doing some test on him to see if he was “infected” – if she thought he was infected she might have just killed him.

  305. Toeknee says:

    Regarding yesterday’s discussions about the similarities between Claire and Rousseau, and whether Rousseau was infected, I agree with Lostfan (#225) and Lind (#227) in that I don’t think Rousseau was infected. The main evidence of that is the transcript Hammer posted in #179.

    As boring as it may be, I think it makes perfect sense that Claire has taken on traits similar to Rousseau’s. She’s been living essentially on her own for 3 years, having to fend for herself for food, clothing, shelter, and self-defense, all while hoping to find out where her child is. She’s made use of the same resources Rousseau made use of, so of course their lifestyles would be similar. I don’t think Claire’s lifestyle and traits have anything to do with her being infected, and I don’t think this is evidence that Rousseau was infected.

  306. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”371361″]….Interesting, but this kind of hurts my mind to think about. And what about Ilana’s claim that he’s now stuck looking like Locke?[/quote]
    Nobody sees what Hurley sees… so it is more of a hallucination than Smokey taking on the fleshy form of Jacob. Ilana is probably right, the FLESHY version of Smokey is set as FLOCKE, for now. But what Hugo saw was completely in his brain, so why wouldn’t Smokey present whatever image is going to get Reyes moving on his fools’ errand to the Lighthouse.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the van. Take Sayid to the Temple. To save him? Or to get him infected and infiltrated into the Temple as an agent of MIB.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the healing pool. Skip your trip to the food court and write down these instructions to run my errand. Take Jack, not Kate. Why? Set 108 to bring a Jacob friend to the island. NO. Take Jack. I know he will act rashly and break the damn thing… preventing Jacob’s ally from showing-up.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: In the temple hallway. Tell Mister Miyagi you are “a candidate”. Why? That is what Jacob would say. Miyagi will leave you alone now Hugo so you can run my MIB errand. (why didn’t his vision just escort him to this hallway in the first place?)

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the Lighthouse. Sorry dude, Jack here is moody mofo and broke your mirror. Vision – don’t worry dude. MIB Subtext: My evil fools’ errand for you went well Hugo. I may ask you to distract Jack again.
    (and why didn’t his vision just escort him to the Lighthouse in the first place?)

  307. Shadow says:

    I can’t remember when was the last time that each of the Losties saw Locke. Sawyer, Jin, Miles saw him go down into the well, right? I guess when Jack and the rest came back they told the Dharma Losties that John was dead? Sun saw him alive as MIB on the beach and then saw the body in the coffin.
    Do I remember correctly?

  308. wally p freeley says:

    [quote comment=”371356″][quote comment=”371183″](1) The characters are on the island at a much earlier point in its timeline than before – hence the lighthouse and temple, which none of the characters noticed on their previous visit. These structures were demolished/destroyed long before the crash.

    [/quote]
    The main reason I don’t think this is the case is that at the very beginning of “LA X”, they were at the location of the crater where the Swan hatch formerly existed.[/quote]

    I got another long one for this:

    I think the issue with time, really is that it has a different pattern or flow then it does off the island. Think of how Daniel Faraday talked to Desmond in 2004 at the hatch,and then suddenly Desmond in 2007 remembered it.

    The island moves through like clouds of time, so outside the island, you can only come in at the right time or go out at the right time that you came in… people like Hurley help people see things… so dig this:

    If Sun was standing next to a tree in 2007, and Jin was standing next to the same tree in 1977, they wouldn’t be able to see each other. But if Hurley was standing next to Jin in 1977, he would be able to see Sun as if she was standing there in 1977, and she would be able to see Hurley as if he were in 2007— just because they are standing next to Jin AND that same tree. In reality (woop) though they are on the ISLAND, and it isn’t really 1977 or 2007. Island time moves foward, but it dips -through- other times. The lighthouse is really long gone… they are just able to visit it. But it has to be just Hurley and Jack- and only-, at that specific moment. They could be THERE but not really there.

  309. wally p says:

    Hammer… when Daniel Faraday and Charlotte played with all of those nobs and switches back in season 4 when he first got to the island…. electric whispering?

  310. Murphey says:

    [quote comment=”371364″][quote comment=”371361″]….Interesting, but this kind of hurts my mind to think about. And what about Ilana’s claim that he’s now stuck looking like Locke?[/quote]
    Nobody sees what Hurley sees… so it is more of a hallucination than Smokey taking on the fleshy form of Jacob. Ilana is probably right, the FLESHY version of Smokey is set as FLOCKE, for now. But what Hugo saw was completely in his brain, so why wouldn’t Smokey present whatever image is going to get Reyes moving on his fools’ errand to the Lighthouse.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the van. Take Sayid to the Temple. To save him? Or to get him infected and infiltrated into the Temple as an agent of MIB.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the healing pool. Skip your trip to the food court and write down these instructions to run my errand. Take Jack, not Kate. Why? Set 108 to bring a Jacob friend to the island. NO. Take Jack. I know he will act rashly and break the damn thing… preventing Jacob’s ally from showing-up.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: In the temple hallway. Tell Mister Miyagi you are “a candidate”. Why? That is what Jacob would say. Miyagi will leave you alone now Hugo so you can run my MIB errand. (why didn’t his vision just escort him to this hallway in the first place?)

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the Lighthouse. Sorry dude, Jack here is moody mofo and broke your mirror. Vision – don’t worry dude. MIB Subtext: My evil fools’ errand for you went well Hugo. I may ask you to distract Jack again.
    (and why didn’t his vision just escort him to the Lighthouse in the first place?)[/quote]

    I’m not sure MIB has the power to make himself the kind of vision Hurley sees. Hurley visions come and go instantly. Whenever Smokey took another form we always saw black smoke coming or going or it was a physical form like FLock. Also MIB has only been able to take the forms of unburied bodies, but Jacob was burned. I think Hurley sees actual spirits of people who died on the island like Charlie and Jacob, etc.

  311. Murphey says:

    People have speculated that Desmond Hume is 108 or at least that he is the one coming to the island. For all we know he could have been Wallace and changed his name. According to Lostpedia:

    Desmond did not graduate from university because he had to support his three brothers after something happened involving his father. The cause of the elder Hume’s departure remains unknown.

    If Desmond takes over as protector, it might explain how he disappeared off the plane in the alternate realty after sitting next to Jack. Maybe he has to stay on the island and was just checking up on everyone after fixing the lighthouse. This follows the idea that the lighthouse allows travels between alternate realties as the island of course is underwater in the alt timeline.

  312. Bob Boise says:

    2 ideas about linear realities. Kind of like the Nexus in Star Trek.
    A. Farmer’s Riverworld: Resurrectees
    Everyone awakens in a body equivalent to that of their twenty-five year old selves, except in perfect health and free of any previous genetic or acquired defects. For instance, all heart disease, tooth decay, and blindness is gone, and all amputated limbs have been restored. However, certain neurological impulses (for instance, curiosity or chemical addiction) remain intact. Over time it is further discovered that these bodies do not age and can regenerate nearly any non-fatal injury, including dismemberments and blindings. The new bodies are completely free of infection and seem resistant to it (though later it is discovered that this has as much to do with the absence of hostile bacteria or viruses on the Riverworld). Initially completely hairless, the bodies grow head hair and pubic hair at a normal rate. However, men do not have foreskins or grow facial hair. Women are resurrected as biological virgins (with intact hymens). It is impossible to conceive children on Riverworld, though whether this is because the men, women or both sexes are sterile is not revealed until much later in the series.
    Anyone who died at an age younger than 25 is resurrected into a body equivalent to that lesser age, which then ages at a normal rate before stopping at 25. No one who was less than five years old at death is resurrected on the Riverworld (it is eventually revealed that children under the age of five were resurrected on another planet, Gardenworld). In addition to all the benefits of their Riverworld-bodies, the resurrected human race is effectively immortal as, should an individual die, they will soon find themselves once again, as themselves, whole in body, somewhere else along the banks of the river. Some people even utilize this “Suicide Express” to travel randomly.

    2. Zelazny’s book Roadmarks.

  313. Aonghus Fallon says:

    I think maybe I should clarify what I think is happening re the time line on the island.

    The Island exists in the distant past, but generates a magnetic conduit which means it can be accessed from the future (our present). I went into some detail re the exact mechanics of how this works in ‘Lost Hiatus Update Numero Uno’.

    You enter the island by one conduit and exit by another. The two timelines – the island’s and ‘real time’ run concurrently – that is, if you spend three months on the island you will come out the exit conduit to find three months have passed in the outside world.

    But just to make things complicated you can move backwards or forwards along the island’s timeline by moving the donkey wheel, as this controls the flow of time throughout the island. Reversing means going back in time. Forward means forward in time. Get off the bus at 1972, leave the island, and you’ll find yourself in 1972.

    However if the power source – real or artificial, your guess is as good as mine – were to be shut down, there would be no magnetic current. This means (a) that it would be no longer be possible for somebody to move backwards or forwards along the island’s timeline & (b) that the conduits would become inactive. You’d be stuck. I said this might happen a couple of seasons ago so I wasn’t too surprised by the bomb etc. but I’m still confused by the actual ramifications. Here’s my theory for what it’s worth:

    Keep in mind that the island is now stuck in the past, although people have been arriving and leaving it for hundreds of years.* The runway would suggest post-dharma, but the lighthouse and the temple suggest it’s sometime before the crash. I wonder if the Losties simply brought the debris cluttering the swan station with them? We know this can happen, and maybe, beneath all that crap, the swan-station (in reality ithe north pole exit point) is still in its original well-like state. This would mean we’re talking about the very early days of the Dharma initiative.

    I’m guessing Clare ended up here after hitching a ride in Flocke’s time-travelling cabin. The significance of this cabin (from which Flocke impersonated Jacob, fooling Ben amongst many others) is what Holmes would call a ‘three pipe problem.’ Flocke was being kept captive but somehow found a way of moving the cabin (his prison) along the island’s timeline. I have no idea how.

    * although the Losties are now stuck there. They’ll never know what we, the audience know – that their actions will impact on the lives of their future selves in positive or negatives ways. It should also mean nobody can reach island – so who is this guy Jacob’s expecting? I’m as puzzled as everybody else.

  314. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment=”371365″]I can’t remember when was the last time that each of the Losties saw Locke. Sawyer, Jin, Miles saw him go down into the well, right? I guess when Jack and the rest came back they told the Dharma Losties that John was dead? Sun saw him alive as MIB on the beach and then saw the body in the coffin.
    Do I remember correctly?[/quote]
    Locke visited the O6 off island in the weeks before Ben killed him. Sawyer, Jin, and all last saw him at the well when he climbed down and time shifted.

  315. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371364″][quote comment=”371361″]….Interesting, but this kind of hurts my mind to think about. And what about Ilana’s claim that he’s now stuck looking like Locke?[/quote]
    Nobody sees what Hurley sees… so it is more of a hallucination than Smokey taking on the fleshy form of Jacob. Ilana is probably right, the FLESHY version of Smokey is set as FLOCKE, for now. But what Hugo saw was completely in his brain, so why wouldn’t Smokey present whatever image is going to get Reyes moving on his fools’ errand to the Lighthouse.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the van. Take Sayid to the Temple. To save him? Or to get him infected and infiltrated into the Temple as an agent of MIB.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the healing pool. Skip your trip to the food court and write down these instructions to run my errand. Take Jack, not Kate. Why? Set 108 to bring a Jacob friend to the island. NO. Take Jack. I know he will act rashly and break the damn thing… preventing Jacob’s ally from showing-up.

    Hurley vision of Jacob: In the temple hallway. Tell Mister Miyagi you are “a candidate”. Why? That is what Jacob would say. Miyagi will leave you alone now Hugo so you can run my MIB errand. (why didn’t his vision just escort him to this hallway in the first place?)

    Hurley vision of Jacob: At the Lighthouse. Sorry dude, Jack here is moody mofo and broke your mirror. Vision – don’t worry dude. MIB Subtext: My evil fools’ errand for you went well Hugo. I may ask you to distract Jack again.
    (and why didn’t his vision just escort him to the Lighthouse in the first place?)[/quote]

    Jacob = Jacob = the “good” one
    Locke = Flocke = Smokey = the “bad” one

    These two sides will soon duke it out.

    We need to remember that we are moving toward the conclusion of Lost, very quickly. We’re approaching the climax, and the story lines are converging along this one, conclusive line.

    Therefore, sad though it may be, there are going to be few more plot twists coming our way, the writers have stopped messing with our minds and have begun to tell us what is going on.

    This doesn’t mean we have to stop speculating about what is going on – there are clearly new mysteries (Wallace), but speculation now is done using facts that we already know about.

    What I mean is – Jacob is Jacob, he is the “good” one, (though this is clearly relative – he’s not perfect), Jack, Hurley, Ilana, et al, are on a mission to help him… we also know that Jack’s role in this mission may be the most important of all. This is something we need to accept.

    The writers are finished throwing wrenches into the story.

    Additionally, the new reality in LA – this reality is completely normal. This reality, though it has echoes of the island experience, is void of mysticism that the island held for us. Jack’s father’s body was lost because the airlines sometimes make mistakes. Our favorite characters are going to continue on with their lives and never hear mention of the island. This is the conclusion – this is what “worked” – the Losties were able to change their paths and disengage themselves, finally, from the island.

    How this happens, how things wrap up, is still to be seen, which still makes this very exciting.

  316. Jay says:

    [quote comment=”371160″]I rarely post, but my wife mentioned this to me and I thought it was interesting. We’ve seen a giant statue & a lighthouse. The Colossus of Rhodes and Lighthouse at Alexandria were both Wonders of the Ancient World. I know very little about this part of history, but would love to know if anyone else (perhaps someone with more knowledge of these things and the myths surrounding them) thinks there’s something worthy of pursuing with this line of thinking…[/quote]

    I agree and was going to post this as well! Also, the temple looks like it could have been the “Hanging Gardens of Babylon”

  317. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”371382″][quote comment=”371364″][quote comment=”371361″]….Interesting, but this kind of hurts my mind to think about. And what about Ilana’s claim that he’s now stuck looking like Locke?[/quote]
    Nobody sees what Hurley sees… so it is more of a hallucination than Smokey taking on the fleshy form of Jacob. Ilana is probably right, the FLESHY version of Smokey is set as FLOCKE, for now. …. Sorry dude, Jack here is moody mofo and broke your mirror. Vision – don’t worry dude. MIB Subtext: My evil fools’ errand for you went well Hugo. I may ask you to distract Jack again.
    (and why didn’t his vision just escort him to the Lighthouse in the first place?)[/quote]

    Jacob = Jacob = the “good” one
    Locke = Flocke = Smokey = the “bad” one

    These two sides will soon duke it out.

    We need to remember that we are moving toward the conclusion of Lost, very quickly. We’re approaching the climax, and the story lines are converging along this one, conclusive line.
    …..Our favorite characters are going to continue on with their lives and never hear mention of the island. This is the conclusion – this is what “worked” – the Losties were able to change their paths and disengage themselves, finally, from the island.

    How this happens, how things wrap up, is still to be seen, which still makes this very exciting.[/quote]
    LIND, I have to agree with you, 100%–

    I think it would be a little disappointing to have the 2 alternates be a version of last season’s ‘course corrections’–stories end, but life goes on, and if it goes on ‘happily’ for the characters we’ve come to care about in that sideways life–hey, I’m good with it! I like a happy ending.

    I mean, ‘happy’, everyone still has issues, but they’re alive to deal with them

    That said, I could still see it if the end were someone taking Jacob’s place and holding off MIB from his plans for World Domination or WhatEva his true agenda is.

    But I do think LIND has it right.

  318. LizS says:

    ANOTHER Q/THOUGHT

    So now that we have this big showdown coming up btw MIB & Jacobs Angels, will we find out any more about what the Dharma folks were trying to do? Is Widmore coming back? Were they trying to prevent the end of the world, and is that different from what Jacob’s purpose is/was?

    And I think Desmond is the one who’s coming back to island, as well.

  319. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371380″]I think maybe I should clarify what I think is happening re the time line on the island.

    The Island exists in the distant past, but generates a magnetic conduit which means it can be accessed from the future (our present). I went into some detail re the exact mechanics of how this works in ‘Lost Hiatus Update Numero Uno’.

    You enter the island by one conduit and exit by another. The two timelines – the island’s and ‘real time’ run concurrently – that is, if you spend three months on the island you will come out the exit conduit to find three months have passed in the outside world.

    But just to make things complicated you can move backwards or forwards along the island’s timeline by moving the donkey wheel, as this controls the flow of time throughout the island. Reversing means going back in time. Forward means forward in time. Get off the bus at 1972, leave the island, and you’ll find yourself in 1972.

    However if the power source – real or artificial, your guess is as good as mine – were to be shut down, there would be no magnetic current. This means (a) that it would be no longer be possible for somebody to move backwards or forwards along the island’s timeline & (b) that the conduits would become inactive. You’d be stuck. I said this might happen a couple of seasons ago so I wasn’t too surprised by the bomb etc. but I’m still confused by the actual ramifications. Here’s my theory for what it’s worth:

    Keep in mind that the island is now stuck in the past, although people have been arriving and leaving it for hundreds of years.* The runway would suggest post-dharma, but the lighthouse and the temple suggest it’s sometime before the crash. I wonder if the Losties simply brought the debris cluttering the swan station with them? We know this can happen, and maybe, beneath all that crap, the swan-station (in reality ithe north pole exit point) is still in its original well-like state. This would mean we’re talking about the very early days of the Dharma initiative.

    I’m guessing Clare ended up here after hitching a ride in Flocke’s time-travelling cabin. The significance of this cabin (from which Flocke impersonated Jacob, fooling Ben amongst many others) is what Holmes would call a ‘three pipe problem.’ Flocke was being kept captive but somehow found a way of moving the cabin (his prison) along the island’s timeline. I have no idea how.

    * although the Losties are now stuck there. They’ll never know what we, the audience know – that their actions will impact on the lives of their future selves in positive or negatives ways. It should also mean nobody can reach island – so who is this guy Jacob’s expecting? I’m as puzzled as everybody else.[/quote]

    Technically what we are watching in the sideways stories are not their future selves but their past selves from when we see them on the island. The island is presumably in 2007 and the sideways world is 2004.

  320. Kathy P says:

    After watching this episode for the 4th time I saw something that probably means nothing but thought I would throw it out there. When Clair frees Jin from the trap she tries to help him up and she has a pretty hard time getting him to his feet. Once he stood up he passed out and fell back down. The next scene he is in Clair’s hut lying on his back. How did he get there? I think I might just be looking for things that don’t mean anything but with this show you never know. I guess Clair could have dragged him but they made a point of her struggling just to help him up.

  321. Jason says:

    So any thoughts on Walt? I know they won’t be able to answer every question but it seems like he was a major part of the storyline in previous seasons. Do you think the writers are through with him? Just curious. I know it’s off topic too.

  322. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Re: ‘technically what we are watching in the sideways stories are not their future selves but their past selves from when we see them on the island. The island is presumably in 2007 and the sideways world is 2004.’

    I don’t think so. I think the characters are inhabiting a sort of temporal paradox – a loop – as a result of course correction.

    (1) They blow up the swan station, thereby preventing the crash.

    (2) But in order to do this they had to be on the island in the first place – the temporal paradox. They couldn’t be on the island (or know the way back) if they hadn’t crashed.

    (3) As a result you have two sets of characters inhabiting the same time-continuum. The characters who implemented the change and their other selves, who benefited from this change.

  323. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371388″]So any thoughts on Walt? I know they won’t be able to answer every question but it seems like he was a major part of the storyline in previous seasons. Do you think the writers are through with him? Just curious. I know it’s off topic too.[/quote]
    ***********
    I think they are done with him IMO. I think we knew he was special, but when Locke visited him and said something like he has been through so much already, that might have been their way saying they were done with him.

  324. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371385″]ANOTHER Q/THOUGHT

    So now that we have this big showdown coming up btw MIB & Jacobs Angels, will we find out any more about what the Dharma folks were trying to do? Is Widmore coming back? Were they trying to prevent the end of the world, and is that different from what Jacob’s purpose is/was?

    And I think Desmond is the one who’s coming back to island, as well.[/quote]
    *****************
    I asked this earlier…it seems Dharma has been a big deal so i can’t imagine us not getting the back story of DI and who started it and why Eloise is still manning the Lampost. I am also hoping we get to see a bit more on Eloise and Widmore off island and if Penny and Daniel are both of their children.

  325. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”371382″]
    Jacob = Jacob = the “good” one
    Locke = Flocke = Smokey = the “bad” one
    [/quote]
    So – no plot twists in the last 12 episodes.
    No need to watch them then.

    Here is my guess:

    Jacob = Kid in Jungle = the “?” one
    MIB = Smokey = FLocke = Fakcob = the “?” one

  326. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment=”371389″]Re: ‘technically what we are watching in the sideways stories are not their future selves but their past selves from when we see them on the island. The island is presumably in 2007 and the sideways world is 2004.’

    I don’t think so. I think the characters are inhabiting a sort of temporal paradox – a loop – as a result of course correction.

    (1) They blow up the swan station, thereby preventing the crash.

    (2) But in order to do this they had to be on the island in the first place – the temporal paradox. They couldn’t be on the island (or know the way back) if they hadn’t crashed.

    (3) As a result you have two sets of characters inhabiting the same time-continuum. The characters who implemented the change and their other selves, who benefited from this change.[/quote]
    Everyone we see on the island is in the same time period, circa 2007. When Hugo et al arrive at the temple and tell grumpy that Jacob is dead, they fire a flare. Ben et al see the flare at the foot. All in sync.

  327. Guttahman says:

    Just watched the Ep again….anyone else find it a little funny that Claire told Jin ” if theres one thing that will kill you out here its Infection”…and she is supposed to be “infected”…could be a clue

    And is it me, or does Jack have a new tattoo every season? Ive always noticed the one on the inside of his left arm but i dont remember it extending down past his elbow…could be a makeup mistake

  328. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371394″]Just watched the Ep again….anyone else find it a little funny that Claire told Jin ” if theres one thing that will kill you out here its Infection”…and she is supposed to be “infected”…could be a clue

    And is it me, or does Jack have a new tattoo every season? Ive always noticed the one on the inside of his left arm but i dont remember it extending down past his elbow…could be a makeup mistake[/quote]
    ***********
    I caught this too when I watched it and I think it may be important…

  329. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment=”371395″][quote comment=”371394″]Just watched the Ep again….anyone else find it a little funny that Claire told Jin ” if theres one thing that will kill you out here its Infection”…and she is supposed to be “infected”…could be a clue

    And is it me, or does Jack have a new tattoo every season? Ive always noticed the one on the inside of his left arm but i dont remember it extending down past his elbow…could be a makeup mistake[/quote]
    ***********
    I caught this too when I watched it and I think it may be important…[/quote]

    You all bring up good points about this…you clearly see the tattoos on his arm, and that brings up a question I have. Are there any tattoos that you see on Jack in the “alternate” 2004 timeline? I’m not sure if they showed his arms when they show his appendix scar, but if they did and there’s no tattoos, this definitely has some significance.

  330. curiousone says:

    [quote comment=”371391″][quote comment=”371385″]ANOTHER Q/THOUGHT

    So now that we have this big showdown coming up btw MIB & Jacobs Angels, will we find out any more about what the Dharma folks were trying to do? Is Widmore coming back? Were they trying to prevent the end of the world, and is that different from what Jacob’s purpose is/was?

    And I think Desmond is the one who’s coming back to island, as well.[/quote]
    *****************
    I asked this earlier…it seems Dharma has been a big deal so i can’t imagine us not getting the back story of DI and who started it and why Eloise is still manning the Lampost. I am also hoping we get to see a bit more on Eloise and Widmore off island and if Penny and Daniel are both of their children.[/quote]

    It was a little surrealistic watching the re-cap show of all the different seasons and storylines as they seem very disconnected from each other. My hope is that we are going to see how they are not disconnected at all–that we are simply right now missing some important information that will bring everything together in a way that makes perfect sense. I’m hoping for something very imaginative yet in keeping with all revealed information. I hope I won’t be disappointed.

  331. Circus Mom says:

    Jacks asian tatoo said “He walks among us but is not one of us.” Sounds like Jacob, MIB or Flock to me. Jack said, “That’s what it says but thats not what it means.”
    The only purpose of the tatoo epi was to have the above conversation so it must be inportant.
    Which makes me wonder if the Nikki and Paulo epi had inportance. Especially since we just revisited their graves. Perhaps Sayid wasn’t dead, just bitten by a medusa spider. I actually don’t think it is that simple but who knows. Still dosn’t explain why he is infected.

  332. DharmaGreg says:

    [quote comment=”371392″][quote comment=”371382″]
    Jacob = Jacob = the “good” one
    Locke = Flocke = Smokey = the “bad” one
    [/quote]
    So – no plot twists in the last 12 episodes.
    No need to watch them then.

    Here is my guess:

    Jacob = Kid in Jungle = the “?” one
    MIB = Smokey = FLocke = Fakcob = the “?” one[/quote]

    Yeah, 12 episodes is enough time for ANYTHING to happen. Wouldn’t be surprised to see John Locke (the man) come back to the island before it’s all said and done. But I was really thinking about when the Others killed the Dharma Initiative. Were they following Jacob’s orders? That always seemed like a mass murder to me. There could have been some good candidates in that camp.

    Oh, and I’m not the only one that makes a smoke monster when I’m watching LOST am I?

  333. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371396″][quote comment=”371395″][quote comment=”371394″]Just watched the Ep again….anyone else find it a little funny that Claire told Jin ” if theres one thing that will kill you out here its Infection”…and she is supposed to be “infected”…could be a clue

    And is it me, or does Jack have a new tattoo every season? Ive always noticed the one on the inside of his left arm but i dont remember it extending down past his elbow…could be a makeup mistake[/quote]
    ***********
    I caught this too when I watched it and I think it may be important…[/quote]

    You all bring up good points about this…you clearly see the tattoos on his arm, and that brings up a question I have. Are there any tattoos that you see on Jack in the “alternate” 2004 timeline? I’m not sure if they showed his arms when they show his appendix scar, but if they did and there’s no tattoos, this definitely has some significance.[/quote]
    *****************8
    so funny, I actually meant that I heard Claire say that about the infection! But still interesting what jack’s tatoo says!

  334. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371367″]Hammer… when Daniel Faraday and Charlotte played with all of those nobs and switches back in season 4 when he first got to the island…. electric whispering?[/quote]
    ?

  335. helen says:

    [quote comment=”371266″]Okay so I want to toss this out, because nobody so far has posited this:

    Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass was in Christian Shepherd’s study when Jack was helping his mom look for his dad’s will in the altverse in 2004. This is a teaser alert for events to follow.

    On the island in 2007 Jacob has Hurley bring Jack to the lighthouse that mysteriously appears (because Jacob unveils it) and it has magical significance insofar as directing or summoning people to the island. It also can allow Jacob to look outside the island. And I’m guessing (This is a big leap) it can allow Jacob to physically leave the island by going “through the looking glass” via stargate-type astral projection or teleportation or beaming up or quantum mechanics or whatever else you want to call it. An earlier comment hypothesized how three panes of the mirror glass would allow for viewing of past, present or future existences of whoever was a list candidate or puzzle piece in Jacob’s and Flocke’s end game plan. Whatever that is.

    This is how Jacob was able to get off the island and visit Locke\Jack\Kate\Sayid\Jin\Hurley\Sawyer\Ilana in different times and different locations and get back to the island. His nemesis was never allowed to leave the island by the game rules but because of the “loophole”, Flocke killed Jacob by manipulating Ben and Flocke is now free to walk around openly while recruiting the people on the island who represent 4,8,15,16,23,42 to assist him in leaving the island and winning the game. The loophole is clearly allowing free will to decide what to do next.

    In order to keep Flocke trapped on the island, Jacob had to destroy the “Looking Glass Stargate” but couldn’t tell Hurley to do it because the “rules” that he and Flocke play by do not permit him to. So Jack is again allowed his free will to decide what action to take in deciding destiny for himself and the other participants in this cosmic game of good vs evil, black vs white, fate vs free choice, god vs pragmatism, or us vs them.[/quote]

    I agree with RiddleMeThis that the lighthouse is in some way a travel mechanism to/from the island. And that Jacob needed Jack to destroy the mirrors so that Flocke and Sawyer cannot leave the island. I think that Flocke and Sawyer are headed there to leave the island. I do wonder if Flocke knows where the wheel is that Locke and Ben used to leave the island in past seasons and if Jacob will need someone to destroy that next.

  336. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371401″][quote comment=”371367″]Hammer… when Daniel Faraday and Charlotte played with all of those nobs and switches back in season 4 when he first got to the island…. electric whispering?[/quote]
    ?[/quote]

    Arrright… whats the deal with the whisperers? They are ghosts? Or what?

    Daniel Faraday talked to Ellie in 1954, he appeared and then dissapeared out of nowhere and freaked her all out. he was time travelling because he played with all of those nobs and switches inside the hatch. sure the wheel, but Faraday had numbers. Faraday went in and punched his code into some Dharma system, and him and his friends all flashed erratically in and out of times. (The Others didn’t, probably because they were protected somehow)

    Your whisperers can appear when they choose… For Daniel Faraday its more like he’s electrically forced through time, because of the numbers that he put into the machine… but in a sense, when the losties were time travelling, they were the whiperers. appearing and then dissapearing… saying something cryptic and then gone.

    I know I’m flipping off the top here, I guess what I’m saying is that SOME appear when they want (through jacob) but some are (were) people stuck in Dharmas time travelling experiment. Electric whisperers…?

    I was trying to make a comparison, to Jacobs gentler lighthouse on the beach, blonde boy in the woods whisper, to the old electric flash, nose bleeding people who appear and dissapear.

    I think in order to find the lighthouse you have to be connected to it in some way.

    Jack and Hurley didn’t time travel to the lighthouse Faraday style, so much as “passed” through into another time, by the aid of Jacob.

  337. Susan A says:

    I think that this is all happening in Hurleys mind. He is still in a mental institute and it’s a story happening in his mind. Everything important happens when Hurley is there.

  338. Susan A says:

    Also this is confusing to me…Sun and the airplane captain and Ben landed on the island still in current time. Kate and Jack and Huley landed in the 70’s When the bomb exploded they all woke up and it was still the 70’s? How are they all in the same time now?

  339. Shadow says:

    [quote comment=”371405″]Also this is confusing to me…Sun and the airplane captain and Ben landed on the island still in current time. Kate and Jack and Huley landed in the 70’s When the bomb exploded they all woke up and it was still the 70’s? How are they all in the same time now?[/quote]

    Whatever happened down at the bottom of the well with Juliet (explosion or not) sent them all back to 2007 with the rest of the folk.

  340. londonboy says:

    Was thinking about Jack’s appendectomy. He couldn’t remember having one (reminded me of Daniel’s memory issues), his mum said he had it taken out when he was 8 (I think). This doesn’t square with it being done when he was on the beach (2004?), but I had a thought: if Jack’s about 35, then 1977 would be around about when he was 8.

    In the original WHH trip to the past, being there in 1977 wouldn’t have any effect on their younger selves (in the US, Iraq etc.). But what if the sideways timeline is, as some people have suggested, happening after what happens at the end of the finale, but moving back in time to 2004 rather than them just jumping. A one-time only (everything else is progress etc.) break in WHH.

    Because Jack is in 1977 without an appendix, his 8-year old self had to have his appendix out.

    I’m fairly certain there are a billion holes in this, but it keeps going around my head.

  341. londonboy says:

    Someone else mentioned the possibility that Cooper wasn’t real. Could Smokey’s ability to take on any form and know their thoughts be The Box that Ben referred to?

    I also wonder if Clare has been ‘infected’ as such. If she is evil now and/or under Flocke’s influence, why would he need to lie to her about Aaron, she’d just do his bidding. It seems more like he’s manipulating her rather than controlling her.

  342. aonghus fallon says:

    re…whatever happened down at the bottom of the well with Juliet (explosion or not) sent them all back to 2007 with the rest of the folk.

    Yeah, looks like I’m wrong to say they travelled further back into the past – Sawyer was still able to find his stuff back in the cabin for example. Of course this is the new altered time-line, in which the Dharma Initiative had to abandon operations much earlier on, thanks to the bomb.

    Jack wonders about the lighthouse, but it’s possible it was destroyed due to the presence of the Dharma iniative on the island sometime between 1954 and the (relatively speaking) present day.

  343. aonghus fallon says:

    …..in the original time-line, that is.

  344. Circus Mom says:

    It could also be that the light house appears and dissapears like Jacob’s cabin, or that you have to approach it on a certain bearing, or path, like the island.

  345. wingman says:

    Just watched the ep last night, so bare with me guys…

    Well as we all know Jack centric episodes can be hit or miss sometimes, but this one for the most part was indeed a hit…It’s easy to get caught up in the endless mind-scratching confusion that LOST just seems to heap on you like a white plate of truck-stop pancakes, so despite my complaints about many many things, sometimes I just want to step outside my brain-freeze and just enjoy good acting and character interaction…This episode had that…

    Jack and Hurley’s relationship has come a long way and as they walked to the Lighthouse you finally got that sense that Jack no longer looks at Hugo as some secondary follower, but as an equal…That made the Lighthouse scene and discovery of the name-wheel so much more intense than I could have imagined…The Jack that pummeled those mirrors, THAT’S my Jack! That season 1 Jack! Not burdened by the greatness of the mystery, just an intensity and edge that says to plow threw the maze wall rather than calculate each twist and turn…As he screm and shouted “Why was he watching me!! What does he want from me!!” I actually found myself cheering and fist pumping at the TV for the first time in long while…That’s the Jack that’s our main character…If this episode gave him his mojo back then that in itself was worth it…

    Jack trying to be Locke just doesn’t work…Jack is a problem-solver, almost a psychopath in his desire to fix what is broken (which made the revelation of him going back to the island to fix his broken pride really hit me)…

    So yeah, Lighthouse this, Alt-Jack that, Claire WTF?, but despite whatever criticism I might have for the way the plot is being revealed (and trust me I do in spades), it was nice to have the character I consider the show’s true main character to finally have a dramatic breakthrough in performance, and i think people who I may even agree with on how frustrating “this or that” is, shouldn’t sleep on the fact that this show can have some really great performances and the show can be worth watching on that alone sometimes…I think we finally got Jack back this week…

  346. Susan A says:

    Normally when the island jumps through time there is the bright white light, but after the explotion there was no white light. I thought that they were still in 1977 and that would mean that Sun and the plane Captian and Ben would still be in 2004. Sun and those guys never acted like they heard some huge explotion? So that must mean they are in two times still. But then how did Albert and Flocke get to Sawyer back in 1977? Unless maybe parts of the island are in one time and parts are in another

    Also here is another thing: When Danielle was young and they showed her shoot her husband because he was sick, to me that meant she didn’t have the infection. She was just really lonely and the others really did take her daughter, she wasn’t crazy. After being alone for so long you’re bound to wind up a little nuts. But I do think Claire is infected. But I don’t understand why she would show up to Kate in a dream and tell her to not bring Aaron if she was infected. I think it wasn’t Claire it was whoever took on Locke’s body and Christian’s body. I think claire was dead and he used her body and appeared to kate. Then somehow the others used the pool at the temple and she came back alive, but infected. Normal people just havent been able to appear to people off the island before. It’s always been after someone is dead. I think whoever it is that is in Locke doesn’t want Aaron there because of whatever special abilities Aaron has or will have. Or maybe it can be in several different bodies at the same time, like christian, claire and Locke. All at once trying to find more recruits.

  347. Susan A says:

    And I think this sideways reality is not real it is simply showing us what would have happened if the expltion worked. So that A. all the fans that didn’t want it to work are hapy and B All the fans who wanted it to work are happy too.

    What are all you people talking about that jack’s son is Juliet’s, Libby’s, Kate’s, or Anna Lucia’s? The child would be three or Four if that were the case. Not early teens. I think that it’s just exploring what might have been if the explotion worked and they are adding to that story line too.

  348. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371415″]Normally when the island jumps through time there is the bright white light, but after the explotion there was no white light.[/quote]

    The screen always fades to black at the end of an episode, with L O S T in white letters. At the end of the season finale, the “explosion” ended with a WHITE screen with black letters. I thought the *flash* was fairly well indicated.

    : ) P

  349. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371415″]I thought that they were still in 1977 and that would mean that Sun and the plane Captian and Ben would still be in 2004. Sun and those guys never acted like they heard some huge explotion? So that must mean they are in two times still. But then how did Albert and Flocke get to Sawyer back in 1977? Unless maybe parts of the island are in one time and parts are in another[/quote]

    Sun, Ben and Frank were in 2007. They would not have heard the explosion because the explosion happened 30 years earlier.

    Sawyer, Kate, Jack, Hurley, Miles and Sayid are in 2007, or at least AFTER the hatch imploded in 2004, because Kate saw the “back door” to the hatch. We know that they are in the same time line as Ben, Sun and Frank because Ben, Sun and Frank saw the rockets that were shot off at the temple.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  350. wally p says:

    [quote comment=”371409″]

    Because Jack is in 1977 without an appendix, his 8-year old self had to have his appendix out.[/quote]

    There you go,,, thats a hole i couldnt fill!

  351. wally p says:

    [quote comment=”371415″]Normally when the island jumps through time there is the bright white light, but after the explotion there was no white light. I thought that they were still in 1977 and that would mean that Sun and the plane Captian and Ben would still be in 2004. Sun and those guys never acted like they heard some huge explotion? So that must mean they are in two times still. But then how did Albert and Flocke get to Sawyer back in 1977? Unless maybe parts of the island are in one time and parts are in another

    Also here is another thing: When Danielle was young and they showed her shoot her husband because he was sick, to me that meant she didn’t have the infection. She was just really lonely and the others really did take her daughter, she wasn’t crazy. After being alone for so long you’re bound to wind up a little nuts. But I do think Claire is infected. But I don’t understand why she would show up to Kate in a dream and tell her to not bring Aaron if she was infected. I think it wasn’t Claire it was whoever took on Locke’s body and Christian’s body. I think claire was dead and he used her body and appeared to kate. [/quote]

    Not sure where I stand on “infection” yet. It’s definately and MIB tool… I dont think Danielle was infected, she had good traits. Claire has good traits, and infected claire doesn’t. Thats the unsolved mystery now. Someone mentioned that claire has taken on Danielles persona by way of the stuff that Danielle left behind (traps and whatnot) (BTW didnt danielle help claire somehow in season 1?) Not sure that claires dead. She was close to death last we saw her at any rate, a house fell on her… so was sayid. Thats as best we know. …BUT that fake baby in the crib? Danielle had a broken music box, somewhat crazy vs. fucked!!!??!!! Claire has been “claimed” Danielle I dont think she was.

  352. RGS says:

    [quote comment=”371420″]

    Not sure where I stand on “infection” yet. It’s definately and MIB tool… I dont think Danielle was infected, she had good traits. Claire has good traits, and infected claire doesn’t. Thats the unsolved mystery now. Someone mentioned that claire has taken on Danielles persona by way of the stuff that Danielle left behind (traps and whatnot) (BTW didnt danielle help claire somehow in season 1?)

    Not sure that claires dead. She was close to death last we saw her at any rate, a house fell on her… so was sayid. Thats as best we know.

    …BUT that fake baby in the crib? Danielle had a broken music box, somewhat crazy vs. fucked!!!??!!! Claire has been “claimed” Danielle I dont think she was.[/quote]

    What are the “non-good” traits that ‘infected’ Claire possesses? I’m thinking the story writers wanted us to believe her safety was at risk with those “others” around. Therefore she had to kill the dude that she had tied up. I don’t think the writers sold it that well, but his line, “just untie me and I’ll snap her neck” was supposed to alert the viewers that this guy was going to kill Claire.

    She just seems like she has an “isolation sickness”, plus her paranoia is justified if we are to believe all the Jacob followers want to kill her.

  353. Blanche says:

    [quote comment=”371416″]
    And I think…
    [/quote]
    You aren’t the sharpest spork in the happy-meal….. are you?

  354. LizS says:

    [quote comment=”371422″][quote comment=”371416″]
    And I think…
    [/quote]
    You aren’t the sharpest spork in the happy-meal….. are you?[/quote]
    That’s uncalled for.

  355. LizS says:

    Going back to infection, and all those inoculations the Dharma folk were fond of–are they related? Did they work against the kind of Infection Dogen means? And didn’t Claire get a few shots of something when she was captured by the Others?

    Or is all that a side-line that went nowhere? And we never get to know if all those shots Desmond gave himself had anything to do with anything?

    Did all that get cleared up????

    Possibly I am remembering it wrong…or not remembering some key things…

  356. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371419″][quote comment=”371409″]

    Because Jack is in 1977 without an appendix, his 8-year old self had to have his appendix out.[/quote]

    There you go,,, thats a hole i couldnt fill![/quote]
    **********
    I like this idea too. And I do think it does seem similar to Faraday and how he could not remember things…Although Jack did not flash as much as the other losties, he did indeed flash twice!
    Here is something to think about in regards to this line of thinking…The last time John Locke was alive he was in a wheel chair. So now in the sideways world his fate is the same.

  357. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371417″][quote comment=”371415″]Normally when the island jumps through time there is the bright white light, but after the explotion there was no white light.[/quote]

    The screen always fades to black at the end of an episode, with L O S T in white letters. At the end of the season finale, the “explosion” ended with a WHITE screen with black letters. I thought the *flash* was fairly well indicated.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ************
    Not only that, Hurley and Jin discuss this in the season opener. Hurley says something about “what happened?” Because it went from day to night! Jin tells him I think we flashed…white light, headache, noise…he tells us that they flashed! This is also why it was difficult to determine what really happened with the bomb and Juliettes final words via Miles…”it worked!”

  358. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371413″]It could also be that the light house appears and dissapears like Jacob’s cabin, or that you have to approach it on a certain bearing, or path, like the island.[/quote]
    ****************
    I said this in an earlier post. I would assume many things associated with Jacob are this way. I also think the exchange between Hurley and Jack lead us in that direction. Jack says How have we never seen this before? And Hurley says something like maybe we weren’t looking for it…

  359. aonghus fallon says:

    I think the scriptwriters might be jerking us around re being infected. I’m guessing that immersion in the waters of rebirth (or whatever you like to call it) turns you into a loyal temple acolyte. You’ll do whatever’s necessary to defend it. And temple members submit to this process voluntarily!

    Jacob and Flocke both represent the ‘Free Will’ party if you like, with Jacob as a moderate and Flocke representing free will at its most extreme (ie ‘I’ll do what I damn well like’). Jacob recruited candidates for both sides while they still had free will. Then they choose which side to fight on.

    Sayid would have been resurrected as a blindly loyal fanatic – that was the outcome Dogen hoped for. Unfortunately (for him) the waters have become infected with something that over-rides this process. We’re looking for signs of an infection, but the waters have revitalised Sayid without destroying his free will – so he seems much the same.

    Thing is, he’s not supposed to be.

  360. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment=”371416″]And I think this sideways reality is not real it is simply showing us what would have happened if the expltion worked. So that A. all the fans that didn’t want it to work are hapy and B All the fans who wanted it to work are happy too.

    What are all you people talking about that jack’s son is Juliet’s, Libby’s, Kate’s, or Anna Lucia’s? The child would be three or Four if that were the case. Not early teens. I think that it’s just exploring what might have been if the explotion worked and they are adding to that story line too.[/quote]
    How ’bout this? The plane never crashed. Everyone is a copy made as the plane flew over the island. Ero, their back-stories don’t quite jive with LA X. The recreation of the characters is based on what was on their minds at the time of the copy (Star Trek, “You pointy eared hobgolin,” – Kirk copy). Their characters were then fleshed out by Jacob? LA X is what really happened. Why? IDK

  361. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371413″]It could also be that the light house appears and dissapears like Jacob’s cabin, or that you have to approach it on a certain bearing, or path, like the island.[/quote]
    I like this since Hugo made the comment that ‘we weren’t looking for it’.

  362. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371403″][quote comment=”371401″][quote comment=”371367″]Hammer… when Daniel Faraday and Charlotte played with all of those nobs and switches back in season 4 when he first got to the island…. electric whispering?[/quote]
    ?[/quote]

    Arrright… whats the deal with the whisperers? They are ghosts? Or what?

    Daniel Faraday talked to Ellie in 1954, he appeared and then dissapeared out of nowhere and freaked her all out. he was time travelling because he played with all of those nobs and switches inside the hatch. sure the wheel, but Faraday had numbers. Faraday went in and punched his code into some Dharma system, and him and his friends all flashed erratically in and out of times. (The Others didn’t, probably because they were protected somehow)

    Your whisperers can appear when they choose…

    For Daniel Faraday its more like he’s electrically forced through time, because of the numbers that he put into the machine…

    but in a sense, when the losties were time travelling, they were the whiperers. appearing and then dissapearing… saying something cryptic and then gone.

    [/quote]
    Interesting. I believe folks in the past (maybe you) have made a claim that the whispers are from TT. I suppose that’s possible. But again, the the transcripts are correct, then I make the case that the words were spoken by folks who have died on or in connection with the island….still.

  363. wingman says:

    Keep in mind this is LOST, so I’m probably 100% incorrect, but after watching this ep again I’d say that Jack’s bizarre-world is gonna wind up being the true timeline…I think at the end of the series when what ever happens happens, the Losties will have an opportunity to flash their consciousness into the alternate (REAL) timeline (based on Desmond’s model)…Under a modified time-loop theory, once they entered the time loop (Which was created by Desmond not pressing the button which released the suppressed magnetic energy, they entered a self-contained time anomaly)…Within that timeloop events can take place over and over again (Jacob’s “Whatever happens before that is just progress”)…Because you’re now in a time loop, normal reality (Jack, Kate and company getting off the island, Locke going back to get killed by Ben) it doesn’t really exist…If you die, your consciousness just gets passed on to the real reality because you are in a timeloop (a place that does not exist in the time continuum)…When you see them in the Alt-world they’ve either died in the loop or reached the exit point where their consciousness converges (Jack having deja-vu thoughts about his appendects, Oceanic Losties vaguely noticing each other and what not is a matter of mental conversion)…I think the dead bodies (or maybe just bodies who are freshly dead) on this timeloop island can be used because they’re not really dead, they’re lacking a consciousness, something MIB as the Smokemonster can take advantage of because of his ability to capture your memories, so you basically get a 2.0 version of yourself like a Clair or a Sayid that has some of it’s memories, but is somehow off a little…

    There has to be an exit or end-point in the loop…Imagine a rubberband that’s stretching along a line…When you get to the middle it’s a tangled ball of rubberbands (the timeloop), but once you go through all those endless tangles (our Losties adventures) you still have a line of rubberband that exits that tangle…The alt-reality is that exit point I’m starting to believe…

    Now this theory is ignoring why Jacob or the Smokness Lockster have magical or whatever powers and what ever the true game being played in the loop is really about (Perhaps someone can help me out on that)…That I can’t figure out yet (The game Jacob and MIB are playing or why it just happens to take place in a timeloop), but i can’t ignore the strong feelings about how all the Desmond mind-transer episodes have to play into this (Add this with Juliet’s mind telling Miles “It worked”)…So basically I’m moving toward a scenario where the Alt-timeline is the one where our Losties exit the loop…Haha, now put that square-peg into the circle hole…I hope a little of this can fit in that hole, because God knows D&C don’t give you enuff to ever feel really confident about figuring any of this out…

  364. PJSander says:

    Btw, in case it wasn’t fully put to rest last week, D&C have confirmed that the ultrasound date was a prop error, though they said they would like to pretend that it was the hospital’s ultrasound machine that was malfunctioning! The flight took place on 09/22/2004.

    : ) P

  365. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371389″]Re: ‘technically what we are watching in the sideways stories are not their future selves but their past selves from when we see them on the island. The island is presumably in 2007 and the sideways world is 2004.’

    I don’t think so. I think the characters are inhabiting a sort of temporal paradox – a loop – as a result of course correction.

    (1) They blow up the swan station, thereby preventing the crash.

    (2) But in order to do this they had to be on the island in the first place – the temporal paradox. They couldn’t be on the island (or know the way back) if they hadn’t crashed.

    (3) As a result you have two sets of characters inhabiting the same time-continuum. The characters who implemented the change and their other selves, who benefited from this change.[/quote]
    You may be right but off island time is the year 2004 and on island time is 2007 the year of Ajira and three after they originally left.

  366. Susan A says:

    [quote comment=”371417″][quote comment=”371415″]Normally when the island jumps through time there is the bright white light, but after the explotion there was no white light.[/quote]

    The screen always fades to black at the end of an episode, with L O S T in white letters. At the end of the season finale, the “explosion” ended with a WHITE screen with black letters. I thought the *flash* was fairly well indicated.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Ok I was wrong.. I just must have totally forgotten that. Sorry

  367. Susan A says:

    [quote comment=”371423″][quote comment=”371422″][quote comment=”371416″]
    And I think…
    [/quote]
    You aren’t the sharpest spork in the happy-meal….. are you?[/quote]
    That’s uncalled for.[/quote]
    Blanche, What are you the blog chatroom grammar police? You show up out of nowhere to slam my grammar and make no other comments? Interesting..

    Liz S. Thank you.

  368. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Does anybody know why Greg Grunberg turned up twice in this series – and was killed both times by the Smoke Monster? Is this just some sort of gag?

  369. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Nah…wait, I get it. The plane never crashed, right?

  370. sector7 says:

    [quote comment=”371414″]Just watched the ep last night, so bare with me guys…

    Well as we all know Jack centric episodes can be hit or miss sometimes, but this one for the most part was indeed a hit…It’s easy to get caught up in the endless mind-scratching confusion that LOST just seems to heap on you like a white plate of truck-stop pancakes, so despite my complaints about many many things, sometimes I just want to step outside my brain-freeze and just enjoy good acting and character interaction…This episode had that…

    Jack and Hurley’s relationship has come a long way and as they walked to the Lighthouse you finally got that sense that Jack no longer looks at Hugo as some secondary follower, but as an equal…That made the Lighthouse scene and discovery of the name-wheel so much more intense than I could have imagined…The Jack that pummeled those mirrors, THAT’S my Jack! That season 1 Jack! Not burdened by the greatness of the mystery, just an intensity and edge that says to plow threw the maze wall rather than calculate each twist and turn…As he screm and shouted “Why was he watching me!! What does he want from me!!” I actually found myself cheering and fist pumping at the TV for the first time in long while…That’s the Jack that’s our main character…If this episode gave him his mojo back then that in itself was worth it…

    Jack trying to be Locke just doesn’t work…Jack is a problem-solver, almost a psychopath in his desire to fix what is broken (which made the revelation of him going back to the island to fix his broken pride really hit me)…

    So yeah, Lighthouse this, Alt-Jack that, Claire WTF?, but despite whatever criticism I might have for the way the plot is being revealed (and trust me I do in spades), it was nice to have the character I consider the show’s true main character to finally have a dramatic breakthrough in performance, and i think people who I may even agree with on how frustrating “this or that” is, shouldn’t sleep on the fact that this show can have some really great performances and the show can be worth watching on that alone sometimes…I think we finally got Jack back this week…[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Here, here. Like the Jack that beat the hell out of Ben’s face in TTLG… He’s back!

  371. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371439″]Does anybody know why Greg Grunberg turned up twice in this series – and was killed both times by the Smoke Monster? Is this just some sort of gag?[/quote]

    Who is Greg Gunberg? I’m intruiged.

  372. cesco says:

    Anybody have any insight as to why Jack and Hurley hadn’t known about the existence of a lighthouse until then?

    Was it always there and they just never noticed it as they mentioned, or is there something else to it?

  373. wingman says:

    @sector7 – Jack is a better character when he doesn’t care so much about destiny and the island mythology…He’s a psychotic good guy for better or for worse and when he has a clear focus (Not muddled in trying to be like Locke or listening to Ben or Hawkings) he comes off as somewhat bada$$ and intense…Obviously for people who don’t really like or have never really liked Jack’s character you’ll never look at his temper tantrums as anything more than face value, but for those of us who have accepted him as the true main character of this show I was glad to see him back to his old self a bit….His motivation has clearly shifted from “believer” mode back to relentless leader mode, Lighthouse mirrors and Jacob be damned…He became a believer just to find out how much he’s being toyed with still…So why believe even more,? Just plow through that maze wall and force the gatekeeper to reveal itself (Atleast that’s old Jack to me)…

    @cesco – 2 waves of thought on your question…The first is that it may have to do with Time Travel or Jacob’s magical powers that hid it…The second is that it was always there and the writers want you to think they never noticed it, which is sad because they kinda broke the 4th wall with Hurley telling jack something to the effect of “We weren’t looking for it”…I unfortunately think it’s the latter…

  374. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371442″]
    Who is Greg Gunberg? I’m intruiged.[/quote]

    He played the pilot in the pilot. LOL.

    The pilot is Seth Norris. The actor is a long time friend of JJ Abrams and has been in nearly everything JJ has done. He is currently on Heroes playing a cop who hears people’s thoughts (or something like that).

    I am not sure what the OP meant about showing up twice and being smoked twice. I don’t remember him appearing beyond the pilot.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  375. aonghus fallon says:

    He’s the last guy to get killed by Smokie in the temple. I’m guessing that you can’t change your destiny. Seth didn’t pilot the plane in this time-line, but he ended up on the island and getting killed by Smokie anyway.

  376. aonghus fallon says:

    …or (if you want to picky about it) he did pilot the plane but it didn’t crash.

  377. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371446″]He’s the last guy to get killed by Smokie in the temple. I’m guessing that you can’t change your destiny. Seth didn’t pilot the plane in this time-line, but he ended up on the island and getting killed by Smokie anyway.[/quote]
    I think you’re mistaking the character Bram for the pilot. Bram was not played by the same actor, and he wasn’t the pilot of the plane.

  378. londonboy says:

    Does anyone know how old Jack is meant to be? I read on wikipedia that Jack was born in 1969/70, but didn’t know where they got that from and haven’t seen his age anywhere else. If it’s right, though, seems odd that Jack would have had his appendix out in the new 2004 timeline the same year he went back in time and joined Dharma.

    I still can’t quite make that link work, but the appendix scar seems really important in terms of what is going on in the 2004 timeline. I couldn’t work out what the cut on Jack’s neck in the first ep was referring to, but presumably it’s on the same lines.

    Other than the number of coincidental meetings, I can’t think of anything else in the new 2004 timeline other than Jack’s vague feeling of deja vu or not really remembering this reality as standing out. Well, that and the really awfully photoshopped picture of young Jack and his parents. What is with those? They seem to intentionally make some of them look fake.

  379. TeamJuliet says:

    Mark my words, The Losties were trapped in some sort of time loop. They keep coming back to the island one way or another so that Jacob could find a replacement which has never happened until this time around. The “flash-sideways” is what happens when things finally get resolved. It would not surprise me one bit if the people from the Black Rock turned out to be the Losties. MIB said “It always ends the same”, right? So it could be the same people, different time, only they have no recollection of already being there (past lives? groundhog day?). Oh and I also think Jacob and MIB are brothers, kinda like Jacob=Esau. So those are my thoughts, which obviously don’t explain like 500 million other details but it’s a general idea…

  380. Amber says:

    [quote comment=”371450″]Mark my words, The Losties were trapped in some sort of time loop. They keep coming back to the island one way or another so that Jacob could find a replacement which has never happened until this time around. The “flash-sideways” is what happens when things finally get resolved. It would not surprise me one bit if the people from the Black Rock turned out to be the Losties. MIB said “It always ends the same”, right? So it could be the same people, different time, only they have no recollection of already being there (past lives? groundhog day?). Oh and I also think Jacob and MIB are brothers, kinda like Jacob=Esau. So those are my thoughts, which obviously don’t explain like 500 million other details but it’s a general idea…[/quote]

    LOVE IT!

  381. wingman says:

    [quote comment=”371450″]Mark my words, The Losties were trapped in some sort of time loop. They keep coming back to the island one way or another so that Jacob could find a replacement which has never happened until this time around. The “flash-sideways” is what happens when things finally get resolved. It would not surprise me one bit if the people from the Black Rock turned out to be the Losties. MIB said “It always ends the same”, right? So it could be the same people, different time, only they have no recollection of already being there (past lives? groundhog day?). Oh and I also think Jacob and MIB are brothers, kinda like Jacob=Esau. So those are my thoughts, which obviously don’t explain like 500 million other details but it’s a general idea…[/quote]
    SAID IT! in post #363, good times back then, good times^^…

  382. ThinLizzie says:

    [quote comment=”371452″]
    SAID IT! in post #363, good times back then, good times^^…
    [/quote]
    Whooo-dadddiyy. Good times back in #363. Good times. My ol’man usta load me’n the four kids inta the convertible back in #363 and haul us down to the drive-in movie theater on a Saturday night fora double feetha. Ray Jr., Ray III and Ray Jay would sit in the front seat while me’n Pops would sit in the back with Jay Ray in the baby rocks.

  383. dave says:

    [quote comment=”371449″]Does anyone know how old Jack is meant to be? I read on wikipedia that Jack was born in 1969/70, but didn’t know where they got that from and haven’t seen his age anywhere else. If it’s right, though, seems odd that Jack would have had his appendix out in the new 2004 timeline the same year he went back in time and joined Dharma.[/quote]

    Jack’s birthdate has variously been identified as December 3, 1969, and July 14, 1966, depending on whether you look at his customs declaration form or his passport: http://www.profilesinhistory.com/items/lost-auction-preview/jacks-us-passport-and-us-customs-declaration.html

    Lostpedia’s flash-sideways timeline theories page tends to favour the 1969 date.

  384. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371075″][quote comment=”371072″]I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.[/quote]
    Wallace? Do we know a Wallace? The kid from The Wire?[/quote]
    It couldn’t be. Wallace from The Wire ( perhaps the best TV drama ever ) died in S1E12 “Cleaning Up. He was Shot by Bodie ( aka Preston ) and Pooh, his best friend.

  385. Aonghus Fallon says:

    [quote comment=”371448″][quote comment=”371446″]He’s the last guy to get killed by Smokie in the temple. I’m guessing that you can’t change your destiny. Seth didn’t pilot the plane in this time-line, but he ended up on the island and getting killed by Smokie anyway.[/quote]
    I think you’re mistaking the character Bram for the pilot. Bram was not played by the same actor, and he wasn’t the pilot of the plane.[/quote]

    Right you are. They both look pretty similar. Also, apparently the guy who played Seth was going to do a cameo this season.

  386. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Hmmm……

  387. andre gr says:

    [quote comment=”371303″][quote comment=”371299″][quote comment=”371070″]So “Christian Sheppard” became Flocke as weve been thinking?[/quote]
    Here are my thoughts:

    I think MIB took the form of Christian when we saw him hold Claire’s baby in the jungle. He was as Christian with Claire when we saw them in the cabin with Locke. He turned into Smokey when he conveniently appeared in front of Ben who went to be judged in the temple.

    As we know from Ilana, MIB can’t be as another person any more.
    And a question for anyone that might have an answer:
    Who took the form of Alex when she appeared in the temple with Ben?[/quote]

    My prediction is that Jacob is Jacob, and MIB is MIB. Jacob is good, MIB is bad.

    We are too far into the story to have to keep guessing on the direction that this series is going… there are only a handful of episodes left, so I think it’s safe to say that we don’t have to worry anymore about who is good and who is bad.

    The story has unraveled just enough so that we know which direction it’s heading in.

    By all means, if this were the third season, it would be perfectly acceptable for us to be wondering if Jacob is really good, or if MIB is portraying Jacob… but we’re too close to the end for this now.

    IMO.[/quote]
    With all the respect, my thoughts were about who really was behind Christian at previous seasons. I am guessing MIB has appeared many times under the form of other characters.

  388. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371456″][quote comment=”371448″][quote comment=”371446″]He’s the last guy to get killed by Smokie in the temple. I’m guessing that you can’t change your destiny. Seth didn’t pilot the plane in this time-line, but he ended up on the island and getting killed by Smokie anyway.[/quote]
    I think you’re mistaking the character Bram for the pilot. Bram was not played by the same actor, and he wasn’t the pilot of the plane.[/quote]

    Right you are. They both look pretty similar. Also, apparently the guy who played Seth was going to do a cameo this season.[/quote]
    Well, we did hear him in LA X – he was the pilot on the alternate flight 815.

  389. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371455″][quote comment=”371075″][quote comment=”371072″]I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.[/quote]
    Wallace? Do we know a Wallace? The kid from The Wire?[/quote]
    It couldn’t be. Wallace from The Wire ( perhaps the best TV drama ever ) died in S1E12 “Cleaning Up. He was Shot by Bodie ( aka Preston ) and Pooh, his best friend.[/quote]
    Phew! I’m glad someone picked up on my comment! :)

    That was a very sad scene – poor Wallace.

  390. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371443″]Anybody have any insight as to why Jack and Hurley hadn’t known about the existence of a lighthouse until then?

    Was it always there and they just never noticed it as they mentioned, or is there something else to it?[/quote]

    [quote comment=”371444″]
    @cesco – 2 waves of thought on your question…The first is that it may have to do with Time Travel or Jacob’s magical powers that hid it…The second is that it was always there and the writers want you to think they never noticed it, which is sad because they kinda broke the 4th wall with Hurley telling jack something to the effect of “We weren’t looking for it”…I unfortunately think it’s the latter…[/quote]

    I don’t think it’s too far-fetched to think that they never stumbled across the Lighthouse before. Even though we’ve been watching them on the island for years, and they’ve been on the island in multiple decades, they haven’t actually been on the island for very long – maybe 5 or 6 months altogether. And much of that time was occupied with other adventures, not the least of which is simply trying to survive, so it’s not like they had the time or the need to explore the entire island. So I find it completely plausible that they never came across the Lighthouse before, and not only that, but there’s probably plenty of other landmarks they haven’t yet discovered.

  391. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment=”371461″][quote comment=”371443″]Anybody have any insight as to why Jack and Hurley hadn’t known about the existence of a lighthouse until then?

    Was it always there and they just never noticed it as they mentioned, or is there something else to it?[/quote]

    [quote comment=”371444″]
    @cesco – 2 waves of thought on your question…The first is that it may have to do with Time Travel or Jacob’s magical powers that hid it…The second is that it was always there and the writers want you to think they never noticed it, which is sad because they kinda broke the 4th wall with Hurley telling jack something to the effect of “We weren’t looking for it”…I unfortunately think it’s the latter…[/quote]

    I don’t think it’s too far-fetched to think that they never stumbled across the Lighthouse before.

    Even though we’ve been watching them on the island for years, and they’ve been on the island in multiple decades, they haven’t actually been on the island for very long – maybe 5 or 6 months altogether. And much of that time was occupied with other adventures, not the least of which is simply trying to survive, so it’s not like they had the time or the need to explore the entire island. So I find it completely plausible that they never came across the Lighthouse before, and not only that, but there’s probably plenty of other landmarks they haven’t yet discovered.[/quote]

    I agree completely…how long was it before they found the 4-toed statue? Its a big island, they would have to literally comb the entire place to see everything.

  392. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Maybe, maybe, but have a closer look at that crucial scene between Flocke and Bram right after Bram’s entry into the temple: just the first few CU’s of Bram’s face – well one in particular – where Locke says ‘you can go’. And remember the episode title.

  393. wingman says:

    @Guttahman & Toeknee – My chain of thought on the Lighthouse not being seen before being dicey comes from the fact that it appears to be in decent proximity to the caves…Since the caves were a high traffic area it’s kinda bizarre no one would have stumbled across it doing something as mundane as chasing Walt’s dog…

  394. white rabbit says:

    [quote comment=”371463″]Maybe, maybe, but have a closer look at that crucial scene between Flocke and Bram right after Bram’s entry into the temple: just the first few CU’s of Bram’s face – well one in particular – where Locke says ‘you can go’. And remember the episode title.[/quote]
    ——-
    What are you referring to??? May I kindly suggest you do a “quote and reply” so we have a better context of your comments?

  395. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment=”371464″]@Guttahman & Toeknee – My chain of thought on the Lighthouse not being seen before being dicey comes from the fact that it appears to be in decent proximity to the caves…Since the caves were a high traffic area it’s kinda bizarre no one would have stumbled across it doing something as mundane as chasing Walt’s dog…[/quote]

    Its very understandable why you or anyone else would feel that way, and hey, Toeknee and I could be wrong about it…I just dont think we should jump to conclusions about all the little things we are beginning to see…hopefully we will get some sort of answer tonight…cant wait!

  396. Lind says:

    [quote comment=”371466″][quote comment=”371464″]@Guttahman & Toeknee – My chain of thought on the Lighthouse not being seen before being dicey comes from the fact that it appears to be in decent proximity to the caves…Since the caves were a high traffic area it’s kinda bizarre no one would have stumbled across it doing something as mundane as chasing Walt’s dog…[/quote]

    Its very understandable why you or anyone else would feel that way, and hey, Toeknee and I could be wrong about it…I just dont think we should jump to conclusions about all the little things we are beginning to see…hopefully we will get some sort of answer tonight…cant wait![/quote]

    I don’t think it was very close to the caves… Jack seemed anxious to “arrive” right before they got to the lighthouse… that makes me think they came a long way, including from the caves.

  397. PJSander says:

    [quote comment=”371454″]Jack’s birthdate has variously been identified as December 3, 1969, and July 14, 1966, depending on whether you look at his customs declaration form or his passport: http://www.profilesinhistory.com/items/lost-auction-preview/jacks-us-passport-and-us-customs-declaration.html%5B/quote%5D

    Wow. Thanks for the link to those documents. Crazy how different they are. You would think that they’d try to make them at least look like they were written by the same person – at least now that they KNOW we pick everything apart!

    : ) P

  398. Aonghus Fallon says:

    [quote comment=”371465″][quote comment=”371463″]Maybe, maybe, but have a closer look at that crucial scene between Flocke and Bram right after Bram’s entry into the temple: just the first few CU’s of Bram’s face – well one in particular – where Locke says ‘you can go’. And remember the episode title.[/quote]
    ——-
    What are you referring to??? May I kindly suggest you do a “quote and reply” so we have a better context of your comments?[/quote]

    Sorry white rabbit, just trying to verify a theory of mine and wondering If the CU of Bram was really of Seth, the pilot who got killed in the first series. I was looking for something along these lines (although I was looking at Flocke, not at Bram so I didn’t spot it until now).

  399. Aonghus Fallon says:

    [quote comment=”371465″][quote comment=”371463″]Maybe, maybe, but have a closer look at that crucial scene between Flocke and Bram right after Bram’s entry into the temple: just the first few CU’s of Bram’s face – well one in particular – where Locke says ‘you can go’. And remember the episode title.[/quote]
    ——-
    What are you referring to??? May I kindly suggest you do a “quote and reply” so we have a better context of your comments?[/quote]

    Sorry white rabbit, just trying to verify a theory of mine and wondering If the CU of Bram was really of Seth, the pilot who got killed in the first series. I was looking for something along these lines (although I was looking at Flocke, not at Bram so I didn’t spot it until now).

  400. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371416″]And I think this sideways reality is not real it is simply showing us what would have happened if the expltion worked.
    [/quote]

    The sideways reality is real but has not come yet. The explosion worked but not for changing their destiny off island yet Think of it this way; the story on the island we are currently seeing is leading us to the alternate timeline. Meaning they still have more to do to change their destiny and lead us to the opening scene of the season with the island underwater. I think others have said something to this effect.

  401. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment=”371460″][quote comment=”371455″][quote comment=”371075″][quote comment=”371072″]I read somewhere 108 degrees said Wallace.[/quote]
    Wallace? Do we know a Wallace? The kid from The Wire?[/quote]
    It couldn’t be. Wallace from The Wire ( perhaps the best TV drama ever ) died in S1E12 “Cleaning Up. He was Shot by Bodie ( aka Preston ) and Pooh, his best friend.[/quote]
    Phew! I’m glad someone picked up on my comment! :)

    That was a very sad scene – poor Wallace.[/quote]
    Very sad. I love great TV and that was great TV. I was also maybe thinking Wallace’s first name is William. Mel Gibson cameo coming.:)

  402. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371438″][quote comment=”371423″][quote comment=”371422″][quote comment=”371416″]
    And I think…
    [/quote]
    You aren’t the sharpest spork in the happy-meal….. are you?[/quote]
    That’s uncalled for.[/quote]
    Blanche, What are you the blog chatroom grammar police? You show up out of nowhere to slam my grammar and make no other comments? Interesting..

    Liz S. Thank you.[/quote]
    Happy meals don’t come with sporks, dumba**!

  403. Duke says:

    [quote comment=”371456″][quote comment=”371448″][quote comment=”371446″]He’s the last guy to get killed by Smokie in the temple. I’m guessing that you can’t change your destiny. Seth didn’t pilot the plane in this time-line, but he ended up on the island and getting killed by Smokie anyway.[/quote]
    I think you’re mistaking the character Bram for the pilot. Bram was not played by the same actor, and he wasn’t the pilot of the plane.[/quote]

    Right you are. They both look pretty similar. Also, apparently the guy who played Seth was going to do a cameo this season.[/quote]
    He did a voice cameo. He was pilot heard on the intercom in this season’s premiere.

  404. I think that this whole time traveling, looping, alteration is very confusing. I hope they clarify this all before it ends. I think what they are going to do, is answer everything in the final two episodes. In like a 2 part finale. I think I am going to have to watch it several times just to grasp the whole time aspect, nevermind the whole religiouse part.

    One thing that really gets me though is the statue. What is up with that statue? What a interesting thing to throw into the plot. It has got to do with some type of alien encounter here. So, in the end the whole plot is based around what? Religion and alien? Very confusing. I can’t wait for tonights episode…

  405. DocH says:

    re: Not seeing the Lighthouse before.

    Yes. Jack & Hugo were on the island for 100 days before the helo ditched, and have been back less than 20 since they were sucked out of Ajira. That’s four months(ish) for those two… most of which was spent avoiding capture, avoiding death, gathering food, hiding in a cave, hiding in the Swan, etc…. Jack had a stint on Hydra Island – probably the best chance to see the Lighthouse, if it was in eyeshot.

    No. Sawyer, Miles and Jin were DI security for three years and had cameras everywhere. Plus they performed grid/sector searches and knew almost every corner of the 1974-1977 island. I’d be really surprised if they had no clue about the Lighthouse, since they had access to a boat and a submarine too.

  406. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371477″]re: Not seeing the Lighthouse before.

    Yes. Jack & Hugo were on the island for 100 days before the helo ditched, and have been back less than 20 since they were sucked out of Ajira. That’s four months(ish) for those two… most of which was spent avoiding capture, avoiding death, gathering food, hiding in a cave, hiding in the Swan, etc…. Jack had a stint on Hydra Island – probably the best chance to see the Lighthouse, if it was in eyeshot.

    No. Sawyer, Miles and Jin were DI security for three years and had cameras everywhere. Plus they performed grid/sector searches and knew almost every corner of the 1974-1977 island. I’d be really surprised if they had no clue about the Lighthouse, since they had access to a boat and a submarine too.[/quote]
    This is true, that Jin and Sawyer may very well have seen the lighthouse before. But the discussions related to this episode were specifically about Jack and Hurley (i.e., comments 372 & 373), and like you explain, it’s understandable they wouldn’t see the Lighthouse.

  407. ScottIsLostWithoutLost says:

    The Lighthouse is similar to Jacob’s cabin. If you’re not a candidate, you can wander around forever without finding it. It’s located in spookyville, not at any particular map location that just everyone can see.

    Now people, the REAL question – is it Jacob’s lighthouse or Smokey’s? Or both? Or does it predate both of them?

    Hey, remember Christian appearing to Jack in the hospital? Does that mean that Smokey has been able to appear off-island all along? Or only inside the heads of the candidates?

    There’s a ton of old stuff that’s still a complete mystery here – like the donkey wheel room encased in solid rock for who knows how many centuries or millennia before the DI came along with their drilling.

  408. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”371478″]
    … but the discussions related to this episode were specifically about Jack and Hurley (i.e., comments 372 & 373).
    [/quote]
    Yeah thanks. I know exactly where and how the “discussion” started. MY contribution to the discussion included ADDING an observation about DI security. So – no need for you to validate or qualify MY contribution. Is there?

  409. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371443″]Anybody have any insight as to why Jack and Hurley hadn’t known about the existence of a lighthouse until then?

    Was it always there and they just never noticed it as they mentioned, or is there something else to it?[/quote]
    ***************
    Some of us have said in earlier posts that maybe it is like Jacob’s cabin….he has to want you to see it, or you HAVE to be looking for it. Proir to this they did not know it existed and thus were NOT looking for it.

  410. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”371480″][quote comment=”371478″]
    … but the discussions related to this episode were specifically about Jack and Hurley (i.e., comments 372 & 373).
    [/quote]
    Yeah thanks. I know exactly where and how the “discussion” started. MY contribution to the discussion included ADDING an observation about DI security. So – no need for you to validate or qualify MY contribution. Is there?[/quote]
    Um, wow! Sorry. Wasn’t trying to straighten you out, or insult your intelligence, or validate your contribution or anything along those lines. I was more pointing that out for others who may not have been following along.

  411. mrs markelz says:

    Where is the thread for today come on this is the last season I expect more from this awesome blog

  412. JustProgress... says:

    I am an avid reader, but first time poster. I don’t think this has been mentioned which is surprising because I find it so clear. It is in regards to on island/flash sideways Locke:

    When Locke was still Locke his mission for the island was to gather all of the Oceanic Six and bring them back. In the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham we see this gathering, and Locke comes to the realization that this will not occur (hence the thought of suicide). In the flash sideways Locke I believe that he will gather the Oceanic Six. We see him meeting many characters from the island, but when he meets someone from the Oceanic Six he receives their information in something physical (Jack – his card with his name and number and Hurley with his contact info to get a job). I believe that this will continue to occur and in some event (I am still not sure yet what that is – Locke’s wedding maybe? even though I think that is a stretch) they will all be gathered. I am not exactly sure what will happen when they gather – whether it will be when the two time lines converge – but I believe that this is one of the ultimate goals of the flash sideways.

  413. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment=”371479″]The Lighthouse is similar to Jacob’s cabin. If you’re not a candidate, you can wander around forever without finding it. It’s located in spookyville, not at any particular map location that just everyone can see.

    Now people, the REAL question – is it Jacob’s lighthouse or Smokey’s? Or both? Or does it predate both of them?

    Hey, remember Christian appearing to Jack in the hospital? Does that mean that Smokey has been able to appear off-island all along? Or only inside the heads of the candidates?

    There’s a ton of old stuff that’s still a complete mystery here – like the donkey wheel room encased in solid rock for who knows how many centuries or millennia before the DI came along with their drilling.[/quote]
    ***************
    My guess is that the lighthouse is Jacobs just like the cabin. I think the cave is MIB (but he lead Sawyer to believe it was Jacob’s.) I think Jacob has/had the more sophisticated way to track his candidates and that MIB also kept track but more as a way of needing to know who he needed to get rid of.
    I think the mirrors were a way for Jacob to visit the candidates at any time in their lives…thus the 4 mirrors. Maybe they represent the past, present, future, and either the new sideways version or island version of their lives.
    I think Jacob hoped that Jack would destroy the mirrors so that MIB could not use it or take over the Lighthouse like he seemed to take over Jacob’s cabin.

    I do think MIB has appeared off island someway. I think he potentially visited Jack as his dad in the hospital…just don’t know how he gets off…

  414. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371484″]I am an avid reader, but first time poster. I don’t think this has been mentioned which is surprising because I find it so clear. It is in regards to on island/flash sideways Locke:

    When Locke was still Locke his mission for the island was to gather all of the Oceanic Six and bring them back. In the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham we see this gathering, and Locke comes to the realization that this will not occur (hence the thought of suicide). In the flash sideways Locke I believe that he will gather the Oceanic Six. We see him meeting many characters from the island, but when he meets someone from the Oceanic Six he receives their information in something physical (Jack – his card with his name and number and Hurley with his contact info to get a job). I believe that this will continue to occur and in some event (I am still not sure yet what that is – Locke’s wedding maybe? even though I think that is a stretch) they will all be gathered. I am not exactly sure what will happen when they gather – whether it will be when the two time lines converge – but I believe that this is one of the ultimate goals of the flash sideways.[/quote]

    What you just made me think, (off the topic a bit but…) Locke may have his “Constant” moment, where he is flashed between realities. Making him flash through the MIBs concience instead of his own, since his concience is owned now by MIB… which could be why MIB chose Locke… or maybe something MIB isnt prepared for… If what you say about Locke is true, then maybe it comes down to the fact that the “six” are meant to replace another six… which may have been replaced sometime before by the “dark” side. Since the initial six has already been reduced to five, its time to start picking up in the next reality…

    Everyone in the “know” seems aware that 2007 is the date of the war, so I wonder if the sideways gang has until that point… Locke recruited in 2007,,, which was stil the future for him, because he skipped ahead from 2004.

  415. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”371484″]I am an avid reader, but first time poster. I don’t think this has been mentioned which is surprising because I find it so clear. It is in regards to on island/flash sideways Locke:

    When Locke was still Locke his mission for the island was to gather all of the Oceanic Six and bring them back. In the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham we see this gathering, and Locke comes to the realization that this will not occur (hence the thought of suicide). In the flash sideways Locke I believe that he will gather the Oceanic Six. We see him meeting many characters from the island, but when he meets someone from the Oceanic Six he receives their information in something physical (Jack – his card with his name and number and Hurley with his contact info to get a job). I believe that this will continue to occur and in some event (I am still not sure yet what that is – Locke’s wedding maybe? even though I think that is a stretch) they will all be gathered. I am not exactly sure what will happen when they gather – whether it will be when the two time lines converge – but I believe that this is one of the ultimate goals of the flash sideways.[/quote]
    Good observation.

  416. wallyp says:

    [quote comment=”371486″]Locke recruited in 2007,,, which was stil the future for him, because he skipped ahead from 2004.[/quote]

    which means maybe Locke was MEANT to recruit in 2004…

  417. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment=”371484″]I am an avid reader, but first time poster. I don’t think this has been mentioned which is surprising because I find it so clear. It is in regards to on island/flash sideways Locke:

    When Locke was still Locke his mission for the island was to gather all of the Oceanic Six and bring them back. In the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham we see this gathering, and Locke comes to the realization that this will not occur (hence the thought of suicide). In the flash sideways Locke I believe that he will gather the Oceanic Six. We see him meeting many characters from the island, but when he meets someone from the Oceanic Six he receives their information in something physical (Jack – his card with his name and number and Hurley with his contact info to get a job). I believe that this will continue to occur and in some event (I am still not sure yet what that is – Locke’s wedding maybe? even though I think that is a stretch) they will all be gathered. I am not exactly sure what will happen when they gather – whether it will be when the two time lines converge – but I believe that this is one of the ultimate goals of the flash sideways.[/quote]

    Helen ripped up Jacks card so Locke now has no way of getting in contact with him, thats not to say theres no way of Locke finding Jack, but i dont think Locke would go thru the trouble for a stranger…

  418. wingman says:

    @Guttahman & Toeknee, Lind – I don’t know guys…It’s not like the Lighthouse is Rousseau’s tree-house it’s like over 100 feet tall…And when I say close proximity to the caves, in island talk that can be 2-5 miles (I’m sure all of you can see buildings from 2-5 miles away especially if there’s only 1)…The Losties went on 2 mile treks everyday…We got disappearing cabins and hidden bases all over the island…I’m not too sure anyone could have just missed an arbitrary observation tower even if it was 5 miles away from the caves…But maybe Frogurt and Arntz were the only people to see it….In any event, if D&C just want me to believe no one saw that $hit, then I guess no one saw it (tongue firmly in cheek)…

  419. ScottIsLostWithoutLost says:

    Helen ripping up Jack’s business card is like Jack smashing the mirrors. There are minor changes allowed, such as whether or not Jack has a son, but as for major events, they are predestined no matter what you rip up or destroy.

    But even concerning major events, ancient(?) beings like MIB and Jacob still seem to believe they have control over them.

    Jacob and MIB both want the loop to end. But MIB doesn’t want that result if it means Jacob is alive, and Jacob doesn’t want that result if it means MIB gets freed.

    I still think schoolteacher Ben will turn out to be homicidal in the sideverse.

    And the idea about the 6 gathering, mentioned by someone above, is a brilliant and near-certain conclusion. A wedding would be perfect.

  420. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment=”371306″]
    for what it is worth…I agree that Jacob wanted Jack to smash the mirrors! I also think this was so MIB could not utilize them.[/quote]
    I think the disk is full. All 360 images have been taken by the camera that is the lighthouse.

  421. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment=”371488″][quote comment=”371486″]Locke recruited in 2007,,, which was stil the future for him, because he skipped ahead from 2004.[/quote]

    which means maybe Locke was MEANT to recruit in 2004…[/quote]

    I really like this!

  422. Jem Wakeman says:

    [quote comment=”371457″]Hmmm……[/quote]

    Okay… I have a different theory that at the moment doesn’t QUITE add up, but it’s pretty mental! I think that this flash sideways was NEVER supposed to happen, OR it’s inevitable and was ALWAYS going to happen. So here it is – I think David and Aaron are going to end up being raised under the same roof – the shepherds roof… David and Aaron…. Jacob and the man in black? I reckon that is exactly what the fortune teller in Oz was trying to avoid happening when he told Claire to get on the plane. I just have a feeling that David is going to turn out to be the man in black. A really gut wrenchingly irritating feeling….. can’t wait to find out the truth.

    Read more: http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b168599_lost_redux_oh_my_david_did_we_just_see.html#ixzz0hDLgAh6n

  423. Thanks for the great info, I will definitely be back!

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