Dr. Linus

Lost Season 6 - Ben - Dr. Linus

Last week’s Sayid-centric episode was pheonomenal, ultimately revealing that despite his belief he is a “good man”, Sayid is anything but… As the weeks go on, those seemingly on the side of “good” are dwindling. Locke/Smokie continue to effectively recruit and pick off our favorite characters one at a time. We also got a ton of great set-up for later in the season – can’t wait for the inevitable crazy-Claire vs. Kate showdown.

Episode Description

“Ben deals with the consequences of an uncovered lie.”

Pretty obvious from tonight’s title who the character of centricity is – Ben Linus. Hopefully the pace of the season continues and more questions are answered.

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339 Responses to Dr. Linus

  1. Jason says:

    I’ve always wanted to be the first to comment…I have nothing to say except, FINALLY! I’m the first to comment!!

  2. Duke says:

    What is the reason we haven’t been given a name for the Man in black? Could it be that he and Jacob are one and the same? One lightside, one darkside of the same person with the balance now out of whack (as it seems to be with Sayid)?

    Super excited for tonight’s show as any episode that focuses on Benjamin Linus has got to be fantastic!!!

  3. Amber says:

    YAY I love ben this is going to be such a great episode im so excited! Why does it say Dr.Linus??? hmmmm and how about that picture he looks crazy!

  4. Lind says:

    [quote comment="371900"]YAY I love ben this is going to be such a great episode im so excited! Why does it say Dr.Linus??? hmmmm and how about that picture he looks crazy![/quote]

    Sideways high school teacher Ben Linus must have a Ph.D. Kind of like Dr. Arzts. (Although I’m pretty sure it’s rare for a high school teacher to have a Ph.D…. but I’m from a small town public school so I could be way off =) ).

    Wonder if that means that we’ll meet Dr. Arzts too… that crazy fool.

    And, Dr. Linus does look crazy! Watch out!

  5. Miss lost says:

    My guess would be that in the sidways version he is a teacher and he could have his phd thus being called Dr.
    Interesting that he looks to be surrounded by fog or smoke, but it is not black…

  6. Miss lost says:

    He looks a little “deer in the headlights.” Could we possible see a crazed Sayid finally take out Ben?

  7. wallyp says:

    looks like a black light in the picture, hmmmm… I’m pumped for this one,,, especially for the sideways…

  8. LostGrrl says:

    I think it would be interesting if Widmore and Ben wind up playing for the same team (a.k.a. Jacob). It seems that Ben will not be joining (and wasn’t asked to join) MIB’s team with Sayid and Claire.

    If Widmore is the person coming to the island (and I hope he is, since he was such a big part of the plot in years past and has seemed to have just been forgotten), I assume he’s on Jacob’s team. If Ben needs to take sides against MIB, he and Widmore would be aligned. Ironic.

  9. dadman says:

    Sideways high school teacher Ben Linus must have a Ph.D. Kind of like Dr. Arzts. (Although I’m pretty sure it’s rare for a high school teacher to have a Ph.D…. but I’m from a small town public school so I could be way off =) ).

    Wonder if that means that we’ll meet Dr. Arzts too… that crazy fool.

    And, Dr. Linus does look crazy! Watch out![/quote]

    Could be Dr. Linus was a Ph.D. who got censureed from whatever academic community he was part of (Widmore/Farraday/Hawkings et al?) and ended up in a high school as a back up plan. A defrocked professor trying to prove himself?

  10. dadman says:

    I actually was trying to quote Lind (Comment #4). Sorry for formatting error. I only added the last paragraph.

  11. dadman says:

    One of the questions from way back when we first found out Ben’s back-story had to do with the girl he befriended–I think her name was Annie. Would be nice if somehow we saw a sideways connection to an Annie.

    Ok. I’ll stop taking up space now.

  12. Mr. $tuart says:

    ****SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!****
    There’s going to be another blackout.

  13. Lind says:

    [quote comment="371916"]****SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!****
    There’s going to be another blackout.[/quote]

    I don’t get it

  14. Mateo says:

    I believe Ben is not going to be killed off until the very end of the season, if at all. I also hope we see Widmore soon. Ben is the best when he is in power and knowledge, the Ben we know now seems clueless so I think they are going to have him be the old Ben we once knew in the sideways :) YAY!

  15. Mr. $tuart says:

    [quote comment="371918"][quote comment="371916"]****SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!****
    There’s going to be another blackout.[/quote]

    I don’t get it[/quote]
    Wrong blog. My bad.

  16. MandrickTibbs says:

    Damon Lindelof: “I think we resign ourselves to the fact that the worst thing that we could do would be to try to play it safe and make everybody happy, as opposed to doing the ending that we think is best for the show. We’re trying to do something that is really satisfying for us… because so far, usually when it’s satisfying for us, it’s been satisfying for the audience. We’ll see… the eternally confused might finally find a light at the end of the tunnel.”

  17. wingman says:

    LMAO, Ben’s promo picture looks like he saying “Oh $hit, only 10 eps left!”

    [quote comment="371922"]Damon Lindelof: “I think we resign ourselves to the fact that the worst thing that we could do would be to try to play it safe and make everybody happy, as opposed to doing the ending that we think is best for the show. We’re trying to do something that is really satisfying for us… because so far, usually when it’s satisfying for us, it’s been satisfying for the audience. We’ll see… the eternally confused might finally find a light at the end of the tunnel.”[/quote]
    I’d love to see Damon’s top 10 “It’s really satisfying for us”-episodes…That would be something to compare…

    As for tonight’s ep I guarantee there will be unintentional hilarious moments…Ben as a HS teacher is gonna be too good…

  18. lost4ever says:

    [quote comment="371924"]Ben as a HS teacher is gonna be too good…[/quote]
    I wonder if David Shepherd is one of his students.

  19. wingman says:

    [quote comment="371925"][quote comment="371924"]Ben as a HS teacher is gonna be too good…[/quote]
    I wonder if David Shepherd is one of his students.[/quote]

    Do you even have to ask? heh…

  20. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="371910"]Sideways high school teacher Ben Linus must have a Ph.D. Kind of like Dr. Arzts. (Although I’m pretty sure it’s rare for a high school teacher to have a Ph.D…. but I’m from a small town public school so I could be way off =) ).

    Wonder if that means that we’ll meet Dr. Arzts too… that crazy fool.

    And, Dr. Linus does look crazy! Watch out![/quote]

    Could be Dr. Linus was a Ph.D. who got censureed from whatever academic community he was part of (Widmore/Farraday/Hawkings et al?) and ended up in a high school as a back up plan. A defrocked professor trying to prove himself?[/quote]

    Can’t one be called “Doctor” for just having a doctorate degree, and not a Ph.D.?

    Anyway, I hope next week is THE RICHARD EPISODE, finally…….please?

  21. Hammer says:

    Maybe Dr. Linus is Annie…

  22. Hammer says:

    The humor is absolutely precious….”Ut-oh”. ROTFLMAO.

  23. Rumblestilskin says:

    [quote comment="371901"][quote comment="371900"]YAY I love ben this is going to be such a great episode im so excited! Why does it say Dr.Linus??? hmmmm and how about that picture he looks crazy![/quote]

    Sideways high school teacher Ben Linus must have a Ph.D. Kind of like Dr. Arzts. (Although I’m pretty sure it’s rare for a high school teacher to have a Ph.D…. but I’m from a small town public school so I could be way off =) ).

    Wonder if that means that we’ll meet Dr. Arzts too… that crazy fool.

    And, Dr. Linus does look crazy! Watch out![/quote]

    Good call on the Arzts : )

    I was right about the Doctorate!!! (Im super smart) ;P

  24. Ben says:

    Ben giving his dad oxygen, instead of taking it away. Love it!

  25. Ben says:

    Nikki and Paulo

  26. Hammer says:

    Dead Jacob may not be Jacob…I think DocH said that.

  27. Ben says:

    Or Richard may not be Richard

  28. Ben says:

    Ben wasnt on flight 815, so why does he have a flashsideways? The plane landing had no bearings on his life.

  29. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371938"]Ben wasnt on flight 815, so why does he have a flashsideways? The plane landing had no bearings on his life.[/quote]
    The whole world has a flash sideways because of the incident.

  30. Ben says:

    Thats kinda dumb dont you think. Like if you had to explain this to a non lostie theyd think youd LOST your mind.

  31. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371936"]Dead Jacob may not be Jacob…I think DocH said that.[/quote]
    I take it back…

  32. TeamJuliet says:

    But the bomb did change his life…

  33. Ben says:

    In the enhanced epidsodes the explanation for a flashsideways is not that the incident happened, but that 815 landed.

  34. Miss lost says:

    Gosh darn it, I keep forgetting that some of you get this earlier than me! Now I have to put er away until i get to watch it in 2 hrs!:(

  35. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371940"]Thats kinda dumb dont you think. Like if you had to explain this to a non lostie theyd think youd LOST your mind.[/quote]
    No.

  36. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371943"]In the enhanced epidsodes the explanation for a flashsideways is not that the incident happened, but that 815 landed.[/quote]
    Yep and it landed because of the incident.

  37. MT says:

    Wow, Ben gets to belong for the first time ever, by his own choice.

  38. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371947"]Wow, Ben gets to belong for the first time ever, by his own choice.[/quote]
    Yes, and I am totally seeing how the FSs are related.

  39. Mr. $tuart says:

    Awesome. We’re not going into a zombie movie. We’re going into a Highlander movie. The only way the candidates can die is if they kill each other and in the end their can be only one.

  40. TeamJuliet says:

    OMG, this episode was actually quite moving. I love Ben ’cause he’s a complex character and I always thought he was power hungry, nice to see he’s a good guy (at least so far). Loved to see Alex and Widmore…

  41. Ben says:

    This is just like season one its freaky. Even the slow reunion music is the same.

  42. Lost Again says:

    Help! When Miles commented to Ben about not needing his $3.2 million to set him free because Nikki & Paolo are buried right next to him with millions of dollars in diamonds, how did he know this? I don’t think Miles was involved at all in the Nikki & Paolo episode or would ever know anything about it?

  43. MT says:

    [quote comment="371948"][quote comment="371947"]Wow, Ben gets to belong for the first time ever, by his own choice.[/quote]
    Yes, and I am totally seeing how the FSs are related.[/quote]

    No matter what the circumstances, we always get to have free will.

  44. Mr. $tuart says:

    [quote comment="371952"]Help! When Miles commented to Ben about not needing his $3.2 million to set him free because Nikki & Paolo are buried right next to him with millions of dollars in diamonds, how did he know this? I don’t think Miles was involved at all in the Nikki & Paolo episode or would ever know anything about it?[/quote]
    He can communicate with the dead.

  45. MT says:

    That’s wild that we have a beach reunion again; this time Richard is the odd man out instead of Juliet.

  46. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371953"][quote comment="371948"][quote comment="371947"]Wow, Ben gets to belong for the first time ever, by his own choice.[/quote]
    Yes, and I am totally seeing how the FSs are related.[/quote]

    No matter what the circumstances, we always get to have free will.[/quote]
    It appears the FSs are how the characters are acting NOW on the island…at least for Ben.

  47. Lost Again says:

    [quote comment="371954"][quote comment="371952"]Help! When Miles commented to Ben about not needing his $3.2 million to set him free because Nikki & Paolo are buried right next to him with millions of dollars in diamonds, how did he know this? I don’t think Miles was involved at all in the Nikki & Paolo episode or would ever know anything about it?[/quote]
    He can communicate with the dead.[/quote]

    Sorry, to be more specific…he didn’t communicate with them and I don’t even think his character was on the island then.

  48. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="371957"]

    Sorry, to be more specific…he didn’t communicate with them and I don’t even think his character was on the island then.[/quote]

    We didn’t SEE him communicate with them, but Miles was at Nikki and Paulo’s gravesites. He only has to be near the bodies, not with them before or just after they die.

    : ) P

  49. MT says:

    When Richard entered the Black Rock ship and stared pointedly at the slave chains, it reminded me of this season’s first episode:

    MT
    Comment 109, posted 1 month ago – Quote and reply
    If Richard Alpert was on the Black Rock ship in chains, he may have been there as a captured pirate. For the common pirate the next level of punishment after flogging was slavery. He may have been on his way to become someone’s cheap disposable labor. Perhaps he was “rescued” by Jacob and in exchange for his “eternal” servitude to Jacob, he was given “eternal” youth?

  50. Mr. $tuart says:

    Oy vey. He just has to be around the body. Remember, he explained it when he “communicated” with Ja[quote comment="371957"][quote comment="371954"][quote comment="371952"]Help! When Miles commented to Ben about not needing his $3.2 million to set him free because Nikki & Paolo are buried right next to him with millions of dollars in diamonds, how did he know this? I don’t think Miles was involved at all in the Nikki & Paolo episode or would ever know anything about it?[/quote]
    He can communicate with the dead.[/quote]

    Sorry, to be more specific…he didn’t communicate with them and I don’t even think his character was on the island then.[/quote]
    Oy vey. When he is around a dead body, he can pick up on their final thoughts. He explained this when he “communicated” with Jacob early on in the episode. Ben was digging his grave right next to Paolo and Nikki’s graves. He pointed to the graves and they made a point to show the grave so that viewers wouldn’t be so confused. Apparently, it didn’t work.

  51. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="371949"]Awesome. We’re not going into a zombie movie. We’re going into a Highlander movie. The only way the candidates can die is if they kill each other and in the end their can be only one.[/quote]

    Hah, I love Highlander. But there are also still the rules that prevent some from killing each other as well like how Ben couldn’t kill Widmore.

  52. Lefty says:

    [quote comment="371952"]Help! When Miles commented to Ben about not needing his $3.2 million to set him free because Nikki & Paolo are buried right next to him with millions of dollars in diamonds, how did he know this? I don’t think Miles was involved at all in the Nikki & Paolo episode or would ever know anything about it?[/quote]

    umm, ya i dont know if you know this but miles can see how ppl die and their thoughts right before they die

  53. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371959"]When Richard entered the Black Rock ship and stared pointedly at the slave chains, it reminded me of this season’s first episode:

    MT
    Comment 109, posted 1 month ago – Quote and reply
    If Richard Alpert was on the Black Rock ship in chains, he may have been there as a captured pirate. For the common pirate the next level of punishment after flogging was slavery. He may have been on his way to become someone’s cheap disposable labor. Perhaps he was “rescued” by Jacob and in exchange for his “eternal” servitude to Jacob, he was given “eternal” youth?[/quote]
    Kudos.

  54. Murphey says:

    Did Illana let Ben stay with them because he admitted to killing Jacob and said he was sorry? I wonder if that ties into the rules somehow?

  55. wally p says:

    Widmore in the sub was epic.

    Locke sideways. I dont wanna say I think he might be MIB now too, but… did MIB get control of sideways Locke? Just a footnote in the show so,

    Miles “BAM” Linus did it. Every line he had tonite was gold.

    I’m liking the new beach crew, but I dont think its gonna be all hugs and music for long… Richard is old and confused, Ben looks like a man without a home, Sun is about to realize that Jins not there…

    The best part I’d say though, was Ben trying to blackmail Walter Peck (the principal) Completely mirrors his blackmail on widmore I’d say. You know, I’m guessing, but I’m sure of it. Didnt you just picture him saying those exact things to Widmore? …..You can have it your way Dr. Linus…

  56. MT says:

    [quote comment="371956"][quote comment="371953"][quote comment="371948"][quote comment="371947"]Wow, Ben gets to belong for the first time ever, by his own choice.[/quote]
    Yes, and I am totally seeing how the FSs are related.[/quote]

    No matter what the circumstances, we always get to have free will.[/quote]
    It appears the FSs are how the characters are acting NOW on the island…at least for Ben.[/quote]

    I think whatever your archetype is, you’re going to have free will AND you’re going to end up playing it out the same way, whether you’re on the island or in the FS. Now there’s a paradox.
    Ben = prodigal son
    Sayid = seemingly bad dude but may still end up on the good side
    Kate = heroine
    Jack = hero

  57. Lefty says:

    [quote comment="371963"][quote comment="371959"]When Richard entered the Black Rock ship and stared pointedly at the slave chains, it reminded me of this season’s first episode:

    MT
    Comment 109, posted 1 month ago – Quote and reply
    If Richard Alpert was on the Black Rock ship in chains, he may have been there as a captured pirate. For the common pirate the next level of punishment after flogging was slavery. He may have been on his way to become someone’s cheap disposable labor. Perhaps he was “rescued” by Jacob and in exchange for his “eternal” servitude to Jacob, he was given “eternal” youth?[/quote]
    Kudos.[/quote]

    so is this why he wears eyeliner?? pirate??? eyeliiner??? jack sparrow?? hmm?

  58. Jake says:

    Wally, don’t count the new beach crew out.
    I loved the music and shots similar to the original beach crew.
    Great directing from Mario Van Peebles. Who knew he was still around?!

  59. Murphey says:

    I’m still not positive if the incident sunk the island, but I’m starting to come around. Clearly the island was sunk when the French expedition arrived. Was the date ever given 90ish? Ben’s father said they left the island so it hadn’t sunk until the 70s. Is there any other direct evidence indicating presense of absense of the island at various times in the FS?

  60. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    When Ben and his father are talking about leaving the island, they act like they made a bad choice. Now I’m assuming Ben and dad got on the sub when everyone else did. Is that wrong?

    We still don’t know exactly what the incident did in the 70’s. Roger acted like he regretted leaving the island, so does that mean that:

    a) the island didn’t submerge then
    b) they don’t know what happened to the island then

    Hope this makes sense, but it doesn’t seem like it does.

  61. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="371969"]I’m still not positive if the incident sunk the island, but I’m starting to come around. Clearly the island was sunk when the French expedition arrived. Was the date ever given 90ish? Ben’s father said they left the island so it hadn’t sunk until the 70s. Is there any other direct evidence indicating presense of absense of the island at various times in the FS?[/quote]

    Nothing would have changed until AFTER the detonation in 1977. Ben was ON the island when the LOSTies flashed off Ajira in 1977. Sayid would have still shot him because that happened before the detonation. He would still have been taken to the temple and presumably cured. What happened AFTER the detonation would be what made Ben and his dad leave the island.

    In the original timeline, Rousseau’s team arrived sometime in 1988. Alex was 16 years old in 2004.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  62. Natnar says:

    [quote comment="371967"][quote comment="371963"][quote comment="371959"]When Richard entered the Black Rock ship and stared pointedly at the slave chains, it reminded me of this season’s first episode:

    MT
    Comment 109, posted 1 month ago – Quote and reply
    If Richard Alpert was on the Black Rock ship in chains, he may have been there as a captured pirate. For the common pirate the next level of punishment after flogging was slavery. He may have been on his way to become someone’s cheap disposable labor. Perhaps he was “rescued” by Jacob and in exchange for his “eternal” servitude to Jacob, he was given “eternal” youth?[/quote]
    Kudos.[/quote]

    so is this why he wears eyeliner?? pirate??? eyeliiner??? jack sparrow?? hmm?[/quote]

    He dosn’t wear eyeliner, This is from his wiki page

    Nestor Carbonell

    It is often commented that Carbonell’s eyelashes appear rather dark, as if one had applied too much eyeliner or mascara. Interviews with both Carbonell and the producers of Lost have stated that his eyes are one of his physical traits, and completely unaided by any form of makeup.

  63. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="371970"]When Ben and his father are talking about leaving the island, they act like they made a bad choice. Now I’m assuming Ben and dad got on the sub when everyone else did. Is that wrong?

    We still don’t know exactly what the incident did in the 70’s. Roger acted like he regretted leaving the island, so does that mean that:

    a) the island didn’t submerge then
    b) they don’t know what happened to the island then

    Hope this makes sense, but it doesn’t seem like it does.[/quote]

    Right, a or b or they weren’t on the sub and left later. In that case the island didn’t sink until after the incident.

    It is still possible that the island is sunk by whoever will be the new protector of the island by time traveling and spinning the wheel or something sometime between the incident and 1988.

  64. Murphey says:

    Flocke says someone has to stay on the island to Ben and offers him the job. Could be lies, but maybe Flocke needs to find a replacement before he can leave? He may also have to eliminate or convince all candidates to leave as well.

  65. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.

  66. Jason says:

    [quote comment="371975"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Didn’t Ben say he was the one who sent the lawyers to Kate’s? Think he was lying?

  67. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="371976"][quote comment="371975"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    Didn’t Ben say he was the one who sent the lawyers to Kate’s? Think he was lying?[/quote]
    Yes he did and yes I do. He was on a lie binge getting them on that plane.

  68. freckles says:

    I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.

  69. Jake says:

    Did Ben look in the mirror in this episode? Either I missed it or they left it out this week. Thanks!

  70. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371936"]Dead Jacob may not be Jacob…I think DocH said that.[/quote]
    [quote comment="371934"]Ben giving his dad oxygen, instead of taking it away. Love it![/quote]
    [quote comment="371936"]Dead Jacob may not be Jacob…I think DocH said that.[/quote]

    I’m not so sure about that. Because Hurley was seeing dead people off the island, where as MIB/Smokie/Locke can’t leave the island. So there’s a good chance that it is Jacob.

    There was going to be a RICHARD-centric Episode?!?!

    Dang it! Now I can’t wait!

  71. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371934"]Ben giving his dad oxygen, instead of taking it away. Love it![/quote]

    AWESOME Comment!!! LOL!

  72. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P

  73. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371957"][quote comment="371954"][quote comment="371952"]Help! When Miles commented to Ben about not needing his $3.2 million to set him free because Nikki & Paolo are buried right next to him with millions of dollars in diamonds, how did he know this? I don’t think Miles was involved at all in the Nikki & Paolo episode or would ever know anything about it?[/quote]
    He can communicate with the dead.[/quote]

    Sorry, to be more specific…he didn’t communicate with them and I don’t even think his character was on the island then.[/quote]

    It’s not that he didn’t communicate with them, its that we as observers didn’t see him communicate with them. He could have been doing anything that entire time everyone else was walking around the beach.

  74. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371961"][quote comment="371949"]Awesome. We’re not going into a zombie movie. We’re going into a Highlander movie. The only way the candidates can die is if they kill each other and in the end their can be only one.[/quote]

    Hah, I love Highlander. But there are also still the rules that prevent some from killing each other as well like how Ben couldn’t kill Widmore.[/quote]

    Perhaps Ben couldn’t kill Widmore or vise versa because they didn’t want their internal balance to tip the wrong way. Comments?

  75. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371964"]Did Illana let Ben stay with them because he admitted to killing Jacob and said he was sorry? I wonder if that ties into the rules somehow?[/quote]

    No she let him stay, because she didn’t want him to choose Locke’s team over Jacob’s team. Locke tempted him, and he could have went, but he would have known that he was being manipulated for some possibly malignant purpose to which he was ignorant of. At least with her he knew what he was getting.

  76. ChadWick says:

    [quote comment="371984"]Comments?[/quote]
    no comments….. that seems retarded

  77. freckles says:

    On the Miles topic: let’s just leave it that he communicated to Niki and Paolo…end of story. I never thought he could communicate with ashes and he did. I would love to see a scene by the end of the season with Miles on pawn stars trying to see what those diamonds are worth!

  78. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?

  79. Shadow says:

    What an awesome episode! Love that at the end of last week’s episode we saw Locke’s team, and at the end of this episodes we saw the other team (Jacob’s?) Finally! Widmore is back! I feel like I’m getting some answers. Loved the FS with Ben. He’s such an awesome character, and I was so glad to see him choose to do the right thing.
    I like how Frank was glad he hadn’t been the pilot on 815, but there he is “the island got him!” (Ben’s line).
    I can’t wait to see what his purpose in all of this will be.
    great episode!

  80. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    Kate wasn’t one of the ones with one of the “numbers” assigned to her.

  81. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371986"][quote comment="371984"]Comments?[/quote]
    no comments….. that seems retarded[/quote]

    On the episode before tonight’s that aired, the comments from the show at the bottom of the screen said Dogen didn’t kill Sayid because he knew if he did then his balance would be shifted toward the wrong way. Is this situation not applicable here for some reason I’m not understanding? Forgive me for my “retarded” yet somehow grounded question :P thoughts?

  82. freckles says:

    [quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.

  83. Danny Jo says:

    [quote comment="371992"][quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]
    okay

  84. Tr4ibec23 says:

    [quote comment="371992"][quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]
    I think her name is spelled I-l-a-n-a, not Luh-lana.

  85. Ti Jay says:

    [quote comment="371993"][quote comment="371992"][quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]
    okay[/quote]

    Ah!

  86. Potey says:

    [quote comment="371995"][quote comment="371993"][quote comment="371992"][quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]
    okay[/quote]

    Ah![/quote]

    Is it Ill-lana or Luh-lana? Anyone know?

  87. rex-lynn says:

    [quote comment="371996"][quote comment="371995"][quote comment="371993"][quote comment="371992"][quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.[/quote]

    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]
    okay[/quote]

    Ah![/quote]

    Is it Ill-lana or Luh-lana? Anyone know?[/quote]

    pretty sure it is ILL – lana . like sick -

  88. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="371964"]Did Illana let Ben stay with them because he admitted to killing Jacob and said he was sorry? I wonder if that ties into the rules somehow?[/quote]

    ********
    I think Ben showed real compassion in regards to what he had done. He thought he had to do what Locke said per his judgement with smokey who looked like Alex. He realized he was wrong and I think just like Jacob would forgive his sins so did Llana. I do also think this was a turning point for his character and he now knows who is good and who he needs to go after. Llana is going to need all the help she can get and I think Ben will turn out to be a good ally.

  89. PJSander says:

    LOSTbloggers, don’t forget that you can cut and delete large portions of the prior text when you use the “Quote and Reply” feature. If you trim the previous post to just a few relevant lines, then it removes the need to scroll for four minutes through the previously quoted posts, just to read the important stuff… your post!

    : ) P

  90. Miss lost says:

    I thought this was a great episode. Ben’s character never ceases to amaze me. I loved his connection to Alex in the FS. I loved the new Jack who seems to really have found peace and might finally recognize his purpose.

    I loved that it was Widmore on the sub but now the question. What side will he align with?
    It seems that the island is important to him and he has always tried to get back to it but maybe it is not for the right reasons.
    I keep thinking back to the scene where Miles gets picked up by Bram in the van. Miles was hired by Widmore and those in the van tried to get him to come with them and they told him he was on the wrong side.
    I don’t think Miles is on that side anymore, but is Widmore?
    I originally thought that Widmore’s expedition was not only to find the island but to also find Ben…
    When asked if he wanted to go to that beach he said no…so is he on his way to allign with Flocke?
    Lots of answers tonight, only a few questions…

  91. LostJunkie says:

    GREAT episode tonight!

    Just to answer what actor is playing the principal in the flash sideways, it’s William Atherton. He may look familiar to “Die Hard” movie fans because he plays the jerk TV reporter in the first “Die Hard” and then is on the same plane as John McClane’s wife in the second “Die Hard”.

  92. Marcos says:

    Is Sawyer dead?

  93. Mr. $tuart says:

    Did anybody else think that Ben was going to be banging Alex? When she knocked on his door that late at night, I was really hoping that that storyline would take place. I might just be a perv, but that would have been awesome.

  94. Eye-lubeben-xxx says:

    [quote comment="372005"][quote comment="371998"][quote comment="371996"][quote comment="371995"][quote comment="371993"][quote comment="371992"][quote comment="371988"][quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]I’m all questions and like to hear your answers. Is the principal someone we should know? he looks familiar. Also, Jack had an appendix scar that happened off island and was on him in the flash sideways; however, Locke’s scar on his face happened on island, but doesn’t appear to be on in his face in the flashsideways. Also, Ilana said there are six candidates left. Is she counting Locke and Sayid as still a candidate? Jacob also touched Locke and he still died, unlike what Richard said.
    Did anybody else think that Ben was going to be banging Alex? When she knocked on his door that late at night, I was really hoping that that storyline would take place. I might just be a perv, but that would have been awesome.[/quote]
    [/quote]
    Yes. Of course.
    Principal – I think he is new. I cannot find the actor’s name to look him up, but I don’t remember him on LOST before.

    Apendix scar – in Jack’s FSW, we looks at his scar in the mirror and then asks his mother when he had his appendix out (her answer was at age eight or nine).

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think you’re forgetting Kate. So wouldn’t it be Austen, Ford, Jarrah, Shephard, Reyes, and Kwon?[/quote]

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]
    okay[/quote]

    Ah![/quote]

    Is it Ill-lana or Luh-lana? Anyone know?[/quote]

    pretty sure it is ILL – lana . like sick -[/quote]

  95. Nathan B says:

    Great episode, and probably the best of the season so far.

    Interesting bit that Mario Van Peebles directed the episode.

    William Atherton’s principal is indeed new. Atherton has been making a career out of playing jerks. I always think fondly of him in Ghostbusters where he paid Peck.

    There was quite a bit going on in tonight’s episode, and I’ve noticed they are back to dropping book hints and small clues again.

    Last night, after Ben moved the adult mag out of the way on the beach there was a copy of ‘The Chosen’ lying there.

    There’s the obvious allusion with the title, but if you know the content of Podak’s book, there are stronger, somewhat illuminating similarities.

    I wrote my recap over at Atomic Popcorn and it covers the ep including the content of ‘The Chosen’, how it relates to Lost.

    Check it out here:

    http://www.atomicpopcorn.net/lost-6-7-review-redeeming-dr-linus/

    I’m curious to hear more theories about the nature of sideways world. Seems like a training ground of sorts. I’m a bit baffled by the close proximity of all the same players. There’s definitely a reason behind it, but is it complex or simplistic (universe just got everyone back together because it was important)?

  96. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372002"]GREAT episode tonight!

    Just to answer what actor is playing the principal in the flash sideways, it’s William Atherton. He may look familiar to “Die Hard” movie fans because he plays the jerk TV reporter in the first “Die Hard” and then is on the same plane as John McClane’s wife in the second “Die Hard”.[/quote]

    That actor specializes in playing jerk characters. Like Walter Peck, the jerk professor in Ghostbusters, as WallyP referenced in comment 55.

    Nice to see that Sideways Ben sacrificed himself for Alex after Island Ben did not. I’m hoping for a parent-teacher conference between Dr. Linus and Mrs. Rousseau. Perhaps Danielle will finally get to shower and brush her hair!

  97. skate says:

    No matter what the circumstances, we always get to have free will.[/quote]
    It appears the FSs are how the characters are acting NOW on the island…at least for Ben.[/quote]

    I think whatever your archetype is, you’re going to have free will AND you’re going to end up playing it out the same way, whether you’re on the island or in the FS. Now there’s a paradox.
    Ben = prodigal son
    Sayid = seemingly bad dude but may still end up on the good side
    Kate = heroine
    Jack = hero[/quote]
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sawyer = hot stud

  98. WTF says:

    [quote comment="372005"]Did anybody else think that Ben was going to be banging Alex? When she knocked on his door that late at night, I was really hoping that that storyline would take place. I might just be a perv, but that would have been awesome.[/quote]
    ——–
    You are definately a perv…that would have been wrong on several levels.

  99. WTF says:

    [quote comment="371975"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.[/quote]
    ———–
    My first thought was “Is Desmond on the sub w/Widmore?” If my memory serves me, the last time we saw Des (prior to this season on the plane) was in the hospital after Ben shot him. I believe Widmore was there too, outside the hospital when Hawking left. I don’t recall their conversation, but Des got shot trying to protect Penny and in doing so probably (finally) earned Widmore’s respect. It is possible they have now joined forces? Des has to get back sometime, somehow.

  100. LizS says:

    [quote comment="372012"][quote comment="371975"]Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.[/quote]
    ———–
    My first thought was “Is Desmond on the sub w/Widmore?” If my memory serves me, the last time we saw Des (prior to this season on the plane) was in the hospital after Ben shot him. I believe Widmore was there too, outside the hospital when Hawking left. I don’t recall their conversation, but Des got shot trying to protect Penny and in doing so probably (finally) earned Widmore’s respect. It is possible they have now joined forces? Des has to get back sometime, somehow.[/quote]
    First, LOVED this episode as well! The oh-so-complicated Ben Linus–have we gotten to the turning point for this character? I have to say, even though he had that awesome scene with ILana, when he followed her back with that rifle in his hand…I was just a tiny bit nervous he was going to shoot someone. But then he puts it down to help Sun–beauty!

    re: Widmore–this is a confrontation I am looking forward to! I don’t trust him at all, his agenda…I guess we’ll see. I’ve always thought it was all about HIM, but maybe he’s allied MIB–or Jacob’s forces? If he does end up working alongside Ben–holy smoke-a-doodles!

    I’d be surprised if Des was on the submarine with Widmore–but it would be interesting! Then we’d have to ask, who is it that Jacob was concerned about getting to the Island? I guess we still have to–as Widmore has arrived, and Desmond needs to get there.

    Aaron is a big questions mark for me. He seems important, not just because he’s a kid, and Claire is probably going to try to kill Kate because of him, but in some Island-sense. I don’t know how they would work him back, but they have to, I think.

  101. LizS says:

    Oh, and whoever it was name calling–we don’t do that here, so, cease.

  102. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="371909"]I think it would be interesting if Widmore and Ben wind up playing for the same team (a.k.a. Jacob). It seems that Ben will not be joining (and wasn’t asked to join) MIB’s team with Sayid and Claire.

    If Widmore is the person coming to the island (and I hope he is, since he was such a big part of the plot in years past and has seemed to have just been forgotten), I assume he’s on Jacob’s team. If Ben needs to take sides against MIB, he and Widmore would be aligned. Ironic.[/quote]

    Well, I was right about Widmore coming to the island at least. But not so sure he’s playing for the good guys, since he had no interest in meeting up with those on the beach. Perhaps he’s going to Hydra to meet up with MIB. Just not sure.

  103. LostGrrl says:

    It is interesting what Richard said, that he was touched by Jacob and given a gift = eternal life. Says he is unable to kill himself. So…

    Do Jack, Katie, Sun/Jin, Hurley, and Sawyer now have this gift of eternal life, since Jacob touched them? And what about Locke? Jacob touched him, so does that mean he would not have been able to kill himself with that rope before Ben came along and did the job?

    Also, it occurs to me that we’ve heard about the concept of being unable to kill yourself before. After Michael got off the island with Walt, didn’t he try to kill himself? And wasn’t he told that “the island” (Jacob??) would not allow him to kill himself? I wonder how it’s related.

  104. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372016"]It is interesting what Richard said, that he was touched by Jacob and given a gift = eternal life. Says he is unable to kill himself. So…

    Do Jack, Katie, Sun/Jin, Hurley, and Sawyer now have this gift of eternal life, since Jacob touched them? And what about Locke? Jacob touched him, so does that mean he would not have been able to kill himself with that rope before Ben came along and did the job?

    Also, it occurs to me that we’ve heard about the concept of being unable to kill yourself before. After Michael got off the island with Walt, didn’t he try to kill himself? And wasn’t he told that “the island” (Jacob??) would not allow him to kill himself? I wonder how it’s related.[/quote]
    I took it as the island (Jacob?) wasn’t done with Michael more than he couldn’t commit suicide…Christian (MIB?) told him he could ‘go now’ (die) after he ‘redeemed’ himself. This adds more confusion as to WHO Christian is when he appears.

  105. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="371979"]Did Ben look in the mirror in this episode? Either I missed it or they left it out this week. Thanks![/quote]

    Ben did see his reflection in the microwave oven…

  106. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372008"]
    I’m curious to hear more theories about the nature of sideways world. Seems like a training ground of sorts. I’m a bit baffled by the close proximity of all the same players. There’s definitely a reason behind it, but is it complex or simplistic (universe just got everyone back together because it was important)?[/quote]

    I am thinking it’s the converse: the island is a training ground, and in the end the sideways reality will be the eventual reality, and all the players will have the benefit of their “island” experiences and, in many cases, have better lives for it.

  107. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372018"][quote comment="371979"]Did Ben look in the mirror in this episode? Either I missed it or they left it out this week. Thanks![/quote]

    Ben did see his reflection in the microwave oven…[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Hmmm. Is this a detail I’ve been missing. Has everyone in the altverse been seeing their reflection? Jack on the plane, Kate in the LAX women’s rm, Sayid on the front door to Nadia’s house, Ben on the microwave door, what about Locke?

  108. TD says:

    [quote comment="372020"][quote comment="372018"][quote comment="371979"]Did Ben look in the mirror in this episode? Either I missed it or they left it out this week. Thanks![/quote]

    Ben did see his reflection in the microwave oven…[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Hmmm. Is this a detail I’ve been missing. Has everyone in the altverse been seeing their reflection? Jack on the plane, Kate in the LAX women’s rm, Sayid on the front door to Nadia’s house, Ben on the microwave door, what about Locke?[/quote]

    He is looking in the bathroom mirror when he is about to call Jack.

  109. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372020"][quote comment="372018"][quote comment="371979"]Did Ben look in the mirror in this episode? Either I missed it or they left it out this week. Thanks![/quote]

    Ben did see his reflection in the microwave oven…[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Hmmm. Is this a detail I’ve been missing. Has everyone in the altverse been seeing their reflection? Jack on the plane, Kate in the LAX women’s rm, Sayid on the front door to Nadia’s house, Ben on the microwave door, what about Locke?[/quote]
    Locke was shaving in a mirror in the bathroom.

  110. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="371956"][quote comment="371953"][quote comment="371948"][quote comment="371947"]Wow, Ben gets to belong for the first time ever, by his own choice.[/quote]
    Yes, and I am totally seeing how the FSs are related.[/quote]

    No matter what the circumstances, we always get to have free will.[/quote]
    It appears the FSs are how the characters are acting NOW on the island…at least for Ben.[/quote]

    Can we revisit this, because I still haven’t read any theories that I agree with about how Island vs. Sideways worlds relate?

    I understand that it’s all about free will. But I’m not satisfied with the theory that Sideways World is the end reward for your redemption/damnation on the Island. Seems too pat. Too cheesy. (And it doesn’t seem to work, since Locke seems pretty happy in Sideways world.)

  111. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372023"][quote comment="371956"][quote comment="371953"][quote comment="371948"][quote comment="371947"][/quote][/quote]

    [/quote][/quote]

    Can we revisit this, because I still haven’t read any theories that I agree with about how Island vs. Sideways worlds relate?

    I understand that it’s all about free will. But I’m not satisfied with the theory that Sideways World is the end reward for your redemption/damnation on the Island. Seems too pat. Too cheesy. (And it doesn’t seem to work, since Locke seems pretty happy in Sideways world.)[/quote]
    The way I see it. Sayid is a killer in FS because he is a killer now. Ben has changed his priorities in FS because he has ‘sees’ past the power now.

    Locke? I dunno…he’s dead now…so FS…???

  112. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="372022"][quote comment="372020"][quote comment="372018"][quote comment="371979"]Did Ben look in the mirror in this episode? Either I missed it or they left it out this week. Thanks![/quote]

    Ben did see his reflection in the microwave oven…[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Hmmm. Is this a detail I’ve been missing. Has everyone in the altverse been seeing their reflection? Jack on the plane, Kate in the LAX women’s rm, Sayid on the front door to Nadia’s house, Ben on the microwave door, what about Locke?[/quote]
    Locke was shaving in a mirror in the bathroom.[/quote]

    What is the significance of the characters looking in the mirror in sideways world?

  113. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372016"]It is interesting what Richard said, that he was touched by Jacob and given a gift = eternal life. Says he is unable to kill himself. So…

    Do Jack, Katie, Sun/Jin, Hurley, and Sawyer now have this gift of eternal life, since Jacob touched them? And what about Locke? Jacob touched him, so does that mean he would not have been able to kill himself with that rope before Ben came along and did the job?

    Also, it occurs to me that we’ve heard about the concept of being unable to kill yourself before. After Michael got off the island with Walt, didn’t he try to kill himself? And wasn’t he told that “the island” (Jacob??) would not allow him to kill himself? I wonder how it’s related.[/quote]

    I’m pretty sure they didn’t straight up say that the gift was eternal life, Richard just said it is a gift… For him he exchanged eternal servitude for eternal youth. the reason of not being able to die seems more complex, and obviously can be broken somehow (how the MIB sets you “free”) but slightly different for everyone who is touched.

  114. The secret is with Widmore.

  115. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372020"][quote comment="372018"][quote comment="371979"]Did Ben look in the mirror in this episode? Either I missed it or they left it out this week. Thanks![/quote]

    Ben did see his reflection in the microwave oven…[/quote]
    ______________________________
    Hmmm. Is this a detail I’ve been missing. Has everyone in the altverse been seeing their reflection? Jack on the plane, Kate in the LAX women’s rm, Sayid on the front door to Nadia’s house, Ben on the microwave door, what about Locke?[/quote]

    I didn’t notice Bens reflection in the microwave… was it a normal reflection, or was it his island face?

  116. RGS says:

    I’ve been pretty much done with Altverse since the third episode with it. Ok, I get it, these folks paths will cross regardless. I thought last week there would be some kind of impetus for something bigger to happen, but it doesn’t look that way. I would hope that there is a much bigger purpose for Altverse than showing that (in my Denny Green voice) “they are…who we thought they were!”

    Again I’m just riding along and enjoying the show. I was a little relieved that the source of Richard’s gift was a Jacob fondle, because I really thought they were going to say he drank from the healing water or something like that, and I’d be thinking why didn’t everyone else. I’m still not in love with that answer but it is an answer nonetheless.

    Just a general comment, my thing about the mysteries of this show, and make no mistake, ultimately this IS a long drawn out mystery show, so we as viewers should be expecting a fair amount of answers, is that the more complex a mystery appears to be, the greater my expectation for a complex answer.

    My contribution to the theories, with the caveat I really don’t have a good clue as to what’s happening…as far as the Altverse is concerned, imo all bets are off as to trying to reconcile when or if the island disappeared, with that timeline. In other words, I can’t really read into Ben & Dad leaving the island (did he say he left the island or just left the Dharma Initiative…which would not necessarily mean they were on the island, can’t remember) as prior to the incident or after or whatever. I guess I’m trying to say is the incident or something has erased all traces of the island and its related effect on everyone, even the Black Rock stuff.

    The fact that they showed the island underwater in my opinion was more of a dramatic interpretation of the island no longer existing.

  117. Pterradon says:

    I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]

    Good point. Ilana doesn’t know who is one the list (Lapidus might be a candidate), then she knows who is on the list (Kwon is on the list of six). Did she know who was on the list the whole time but didn’t want to admit it to Bram?

  118. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372030"]I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]

    Good point. Ilana doesn’t know who is one the list (Lapidus might be a candidate), then she knows who is on the list (Kwon is on the list of six). Did she know who was on the list the whole time but didn’t want to admit it to Bram?[/quote]

    I think Ilana is the answer woman. She seems to know a hell of a lot. If she says there are 6 candidates left, I’m willing to believe her. So… who are they?

    Jack
    Hurley
    Sun/Jin
    Sawyer
    Sayid (is she still counting him?)

    and… who?

    I’d say she’s not counting Locke anymore. So that leaves Lapidus, who she mentioned as a candidate (even though no one has seen his name in the cave or the lighthouse)… and Kate (who DID have a number, 51 — the opposite of Sawyer’s 15). Perhaps she’s counting both, if Sayid is out.

  119. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="372031"][quote comment="372030"]I guess we are all forgetting that Llana thought Lapidus was a candidate also. did she suddenly change her mind now and has a list.[/quote]

    Good point. Ilana doesn’t know who is one the list (Lapidus might be a candidate), then she knows who is on the list (Kwon is on the list of six). Did she know who was on the list the whole time but didn’t want to admit it to Bram?[/quote]

    I think Ilana is the answer woman. She seems to know a hell of a lot. If she says there are 6 candidates left, I’m willing to believe her. So… who are they?

    Jack
    Hurley
    Sun/Jin
    Sawyer
    Sayid (is she still counting him?)

    and… who?

    I’d say she’s not counting Locke anymore. So that leaves Lapidus, who she mentioned as a candidate (even though no one has seen his name in the cave or the lighthouse)… and Kate (who DID have a number, 51 — the opposite of Sawyer’s 15). Perhaps she’s counting both, if Sayid is out.[/quote]

    I think Sun had asked how many candidates are there and Ilana said six. I don’t think she said six left. So she may have meant six total or six left. You are right that she is the answer woman. She knows Locke can’t change to any other form. And Jacob was like a dad to her? So she knows who daddy’s long time nemesis is?

  120. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372031"]
    Good point. Ilana doesn’t know who is one the list (Lapidus might be a candidate), then she knows who is on the list (Kwon is on the list of six). Did she know who was on the list the whole time but didn’t want to admit it to Bram?[/quote]

    Maybe she knew there were six candidates and HAD a list, but since Locke had to be crossed off, she is still trying to figure out who is the sixth. My guess is Kate, since she was not crossed off.

    : ) P

  121. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372029"]I’ve been pretty much done with Altverse since the third episode with it. Ok, I get it, these folks paths will cross regardless. I thought last week there would be some kind of impetus for something bigger to happen, but it doesn’t look that way. I would hope that there is a much bigger purpose for Altverse than showing that (in my Denny Green voice) “they are…who we thought they were!”

    Again I’m just riding along and enjoying the show. I was a little relieved that the source of Richard’s gift was a Jacob fondle, because I really thought they were going to say he drank from the healing water or something like that, and I’d be thinking why didn’t everyone else. I’m still not in love with that answer but it is an answer nonetheless.

    Just a general comment, my thing about the mysteries of this show, and make no mistake, ultimately this IS a long drawn out mystery show, so we as viewers should be expecting a fair amount of answers, is that the more complex a mystery appears to be, the greater my expectation for a complex answer.

    My contribution to the theories, with the caveat I really don’t have a good clue as to what’s happening…as far as the Altverse is concerned, imo all bets are off as to trying to reconcile when or if the island disappeared, with that timeline. In other words, I can’t really read into Ben & Dad leaving the island (did he say he left the island or just left the Dharma Initiative…which would not necessarily mean they were on the island, can’t remember) as prior to the incident or after or whatever. I guess I’m trying to say is the incident or something has erased all traces of the island and its related effect on everyone, even the Black Rock stuff.

    The fact that they showed the island underwater in my opinion was more of a dramatic interpretation of the island no longer existing.[/quote]
    ___________________________
    I’m with you on a couple things. One, I keep wanting the stakes to get higher in the altverse and it still seems to be going nowhere. Two, I’m afraid many answers will be less than dramatic one-liners, e.g. Frank saying he overslept and that’s why he wasn’t piloting 815…

    On the other hand, it is strange how Roger referred to them leaving the island and saying he wished they would’ve stayed. That tells me they did leave on the sub during the initial evacuation sounded by Chang. Otherwise, Rog would know the island is underwater.

  122. wallyp says:

    I’m pretty sure Llana did say that there were only six LEFT… but I had thought before that maybe Locke was a wild name on the list, and maybe Jacob had a secret ace (Kate?)

  123. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372034"][quote comment="372029"]

    On the other hand, it is strange how Roger referred to them leaving the island and saying he wished they would’ve stayed. That tells me they did leave on the sub during the initial evacuation sounded by Chang. Otherwise, Rog would know the island is underwater.[/quote]

    Roger Linus’ scene was completely strange all around to me at first. Never mind that he looked like Henry Winkler in the American Christmas Carol… .. BUT it adds up… I thought Ben was with the Others when Jack dropped the bomb… he must have went back to Dharma, and Roger did get shot as well I think,… so, maybe thats why they were put on a sub out (Roger may have even lost his head and decided to leave…y’know after being shot, his son being shot, his son being kidnapped by hostiles etc.) I guess to think about it, Roger had decided when talking to Kate that he wanted to be a better dad,,, so… I dunno where I’m going with this…

  124. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372035"]I’m pretty sure Llana did say that there were only six LEFT… but I had thought before that maybe Locke was a wild name on the list, and maybe Jacob had a secret ace (Kate?)[/quote]

    Yes, she did say six LEFT (which I took to mean that after all 360 names on the lighthouse, only 6 remain).

    BTW, her name is ILANA.

  125. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372035"]I’m pretty sure Llana did say that there were only six LEFT… but I had thought before that maybe Locke was a wild name on the list, and maybe Jacob had a secret ace (Kate?)[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Ilana is only aware of 6 candidates that are left: Lapidus, Ford, Sheppard, Reyes, Jarrah, & Kwon (one of the Kwons).

  126. JimJim says:

    My theory the sixth candidate is Walt. The islands “Boy King.”

  127. ced913 says:

    Quick note on the the numbers — I don’t know if this was mentioned before, but the whole baseball and dogen thing does have some numerical significance. There are 108 stitches on a baseball.

  128. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372036"][quote comment="372034"][quote comment="372029"]

    On the other hand, it is strange how Roger referred to them leaving the island and saying he wished they would’ve stayed. That tells me they did leave on the sub during the initial evacuation sounded by Chang. Otherwise, Rog would know the island is underwater.[/quote]

    Roger Linus’ scene was completely strange all around to me at first. Never mind that he looked like Henry Winkler in the American Christmas Carol… .. BUT it adds up… I thought Ben was with the Others when Jack dropped the bomb… he must have went back to Dharma, and Roger did get shot as well I think,… so, maybe thats why they were put on a sub out (Roger may have even lost his head and decided to leave…y’know after being shot, his son being shot, his son being kidnapped by hostiles etc.)

    I guess to think about it, Roger had decided when talking to Kate that he wanted to be a better dad,,, so… I dunno where I’m going with this…[/quote]

    You have to remember, that when the incident happened in 1977, everything AFTER that changed. So, Ben was never shot, since the Losties never crashed and thus there was no loop back or time dis-shelveling that had Sayid shoot young Ben. Ben never needed healing at the Temple, so he was not with the Others at the time, just a shy kid w/ a drunk, abusive Rog for a father.
    So now, in the flash sideways world, we see the characters as they are/were based on the 1977 incident, not just due to the plane not crashing. This is why Jack has a son. Christian, still died because that was a storyline not influenced by the 1977 incident. SO, when you see things as different in the Losties sideways world, its because of the 1977 incident wiping out what you had previously learned when you saw the Losties earlier flashBACKS (ie Jack has a son, Ben is a HS teacher etc). History for all people affected by the island at that time or since, their lives have changed. When you see things that didn’t seem to change (ie the freighter bandits are still bad guys, Widmore still wants to get back on the island etc) its because those things were not affected by what happened to the island in 1977.

    Hope this helps.

  129. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372038"][quote comment="372035"]I’m pretty sure Llana did say that there were only six LEFT… but I had thought before that maybe Locke was a wild name on the list, and maybe Jacob had a secret ace (Kate?)[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Ilana is only aware of 6 candidates that are left: Lapidus, Ford, Sheppard, Reyes, Jarrah, & Kwon (one of the Kwons).[/quote]

    Would she still count Jarrah, now that she knows he’s killed Dogen and is therefore recruited?

  130. Bruno says:

    Here is a thought that would be a great finale. Sawyer is an expert con man. Kate is no stranger to a scam either. They are both supposedly in his camp right now. Is MIB so powerful and knowledgeable that he can never be conned? What if Sawyer plays the ultimate trick on him, and MIB is cheated of his one chance of leaving the island. Someone (who?) becomes the new jacob and the balance is restored.

  131. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372041"][quote comment="372036"][quote comment="372034"][quote comment="372029"]

    On the other hand, it is strange how Roger referred to them leaving the island and saying he wished they would’ve stayed. That tells me they did leave on the sub during the initial evacuation sounded by Chang. Otherwise, Rog would know the island is underwater.[/quote]

    Roger Linus’ scene was completely strange all around to me at first. Never mind that he looked like Henry Winkler in the American Christmas Carol… .. BUT it adds up… I thought Ben was with the Others when Jack dropped the bomb… he must have went back to Dharma, and Roger did get shot as well I think,… so, maybe thats why they were put on a sub out (Roger may have even lost his head and decided to leave…y’know after being shot, his son being shot, his son being kidnapped by hostiles etc.)

    I guess to think about it, Roger had decided when talking to Kate that he wanted to be a better dad,,, so… I dunno where I’m going with this…[/quote]

    You have to remember, that when the incident happened in 1977, everything AFTER that changed. So, Ben was never shot, since the Losties never crashed and thus there was no loop back or time dis-shelveling that had Sayid shoot young Ben. Ben never needed healing at the Temple, so he was not with the Others at the time, just a shy kid w/ a drunk, abusive Rog for a father.
    So now, in the flash sideways world, we see the characters as they are/were based on the 1977 incident, not just due to the plane not crashing. This is why Jack has a son. Christian, still died because that was a storyline not influenced by the 1977 incident. SO, when you see things as different in the Losties sideways world, its because of the 1977 incident wiping out what you had previously learned when you saw the Losties earlier flashBACKS (ie Jack has a son, Ben is a HS teacher etc). History for all people affected by the island at that time or since, their lives have changed. When you see things that didn’t seem to change (ie the freighter bandits are still bad guys, Widmore still wants to get back on the island etc) its because those things were not affected by what happened to the island in 1977.

    Hope this helps.[/quote]

    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)

  132. Miraks says:

    When Ben and Alex are in the library studying the book is first shown open to a page with a ship on it- I swear it looked like the Black Rock,but can’t find a screen cap for it anywhere. Did anyone else see it? I think Ben goes on to talk about the East Indian Trade Co., and mentions a year in the early 1800’s. I thought it might have been a clue to when the Black Rock arrived on the Island.

  133. James says:

    Widmore is on the side of Smokie.Thing about it. Ben thought he was on Jacobs side back in the day. Widmore did something to get kicked off the island. Something related to Eloise (Daniel’s mom). he is seen as bad by the others. Now, Ben said in the season he attacked the Island that he wanted to kill everyone on the island. That is what has been said about Evil Locke. Perhaps Widmore was turned by smokie in the past and is working for his interests.

  134. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372044"]
    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)[/quote]
    I think the Linus’ still being part of DHARMA in the FSW is the link back to original timeline. Ben is going to run into Jack or Kate or someone and ‘remember’ what happened leading up to the incident…I can only guess what that will do.

  135. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372045"]When Ben and Alex are in the library studying the book is first shown open to a page with a ship on it- I swear it looked like the Black Rock,but can’t find a screen cap for it anywhere. Did anyone else see it? I think Ben goes on to talk about the East Indian Trade Co., and mentions a year in the early 1800’s. I thought it might have been a clue to when the Black Rock arrived on the Island.[/quote]

    I remember thinking the same thing when I saw the ship in that book.

    According to Lostpedia:
    “The Black Rock was allegedly owned and run by the British trading group the New World Sea Traders… The Black Rock may have been one of these slave ships, though they were sold in 1882, a year after the Black Rock disappeared…

    “The New World Sea Traders was owned and operated by Magnus Hanso, a former ship’s captain who became a business entrepreneur. While no direct ownership has been stated, it is known that the Black Rock sailed out of slip 23 in Portsmouth docks…

    “The Black Rock disappeared in 1881, on a return voyage from a gold mining operation in the South Indian Ocean… A crew of some 40 men, along with an uncounted number of slaves, was presumably lost at sea. Magnus Hanso was known to still have a hands-on passion for the sea and insisted on captaining several voyages every year. It is likely that he was captaining the Black Rock himself…”

  136. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372037"][quote comment="372035"]I’m pretty sure Llana did say that there were only six LEFT… but I had thought before that maybe Locke was a wild name on the list, and maybe Jacob had a secret ace (Kate?)[/quote]

    Yes, she did say six LEFT (which I took to mean that after all 360 names on the lighthouse, only 6 remain).

    BTW, her name is ILANA.[/quote]

    Ok, so we are saying that Locke is NOT one of the six left then? I was thinking it, but I’m still not sure, I was sort of under the impression that the last six numbers were “The Numbers” … but I do dig the idea that the numbers have changed… (Does Hurley play different Lottery numbers in the sideways?)

  137. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)[/quote]
    I think the Linus’ still being part of DHARMA in the FSW is the link back to original timeline. Ben is going to run into Jack or Kate or someone and ‘remember’ what happened leading up to the incident…I can only guess what that will do.[/quote]

    I agree— I think Ben could remember this, even if, technically, it didn’t happen…

  138. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)[/quote]
    I think the Linus’ still being part of DHARMA in the FSW is the link back to original timeline. Ben is going to run into Jack or Kate or someone and ‘remember’ what happened leading up to the incident…I can only guess what that will do.[/quote]

    I agree— I think Ben could remember this, even if, technically, it didn’t happen…[/quote]

    I have to respectfully disagree. How can FSWBen remember FSWJack and FSWKate for things that happened before the incident? Jack and Kate never crashed on the island, so there was never a “loop back” in time in the FSW world. If this was the case, then FSWJack and FSWKate would remember they were on an island that they never were on (never crashed) and detonated a bomb.

    My answer to Wally would be that you need to remember what Faraday had said as they were time traveling. That whatever they themselves did during this time, in reality, history would show that the end result would have happened anyway w/o the losties being there. (OK, so I paraphrased, please by all means , if someone can look at that episode, I think it would help to clear some of these things up)
    I believe we will be seeing Faraday sometime soon too as he seems to understand the time travel thing. Remember, he was shot/killed by his own mother back in the 50’s(?), but quite obviously did not wipe himself off the timeline for being born after that time.

  139. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372051"][quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    I have to respectfully disagree. How can FSWBen remember FSWJack and FSWKate for things that happened before the incident? Jack and Kate never crashed on the island, so there was never a “loop back” in time in the FSW world. If this was the case, then FSWJack and FSWKate would remember they were on an island that they never were on (never crashed) and detonated a bomb.
    [/quote]
    Because the incident would wipe out what would have happened AFTER the incident…not before. Your logic would say that there was never an incident, because the incident was caused by people that were never there. So your logic would then suggest that something else caused the FSW redo.

  140. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372053"][quote comment="372051"][quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    I have to respectfully disagree. How can FSWBen remember FSWJack and FSWKate for things that happened before the incident? Jack and Kate never crashed on the island, so there was never a “loop back” in time in the FSW world. If this was the case, then FSWJack and FSWKate would remember they were on an island that they never were on (never crashed) and detonated a bomb.
    [/quote]
    Because the incident would wipe out what would have happened AFTER the incident…not before. Your logic would say that there was never an incident, because the incident was caused by people that were never there. So your logic would then suggest that something else caused the FSW redo.[/quote]

    You didnt read my 3rd paragraph. The incident happened anyway, in some shape or form, like a bomb exploding, w/o the losties being there.

  141. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372054"][quote comment="372053"][quote comment="372051"][quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    I have to respectfully disagree. How can FSWBen remember FSWJack and FSWKate for things that happened before the incident? Jack and Kate never crashed on the island, so there was never a “loop back” in time in the FSW world. If this was the case, then FSWJack and FSWKate would remember they were on an island that they never were on (never crashed) and detonated a bomb.
    [/quote]
    Because the incident would wipe out what would have happened AFTER the incident…not before. Your logic would say that there was never an incident, because the incident was caused by people that were never there. So your logic would then suggest that something else caused the FSW redo.[/quote]

    You didnt read my 3rd paragraph. The incident happened anyway, in some shape or form, like a bomb exploding, w/o the losties being there.[/quote]

    Oops, sorry, 2nd paragraph!!

  142. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372051"][quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)[/quote]
    I think the Linus’ still being part of DHARMA in the FSW is the link back to original timeline. Ben is going to run into Jack or Kate or someone and ‘remember’ what happened leading up to the incident…I can only guess what that will do.[/quote]

    I agree— I think Ben could remember this, even if, technically, it didn’t happen…[/quote]

    I have to respectfully disagree. How can FSWBen remember FSWJack and FSWKate for things that happened before the incident? Jack and Kate never crashed on the island, so there was never a “loop back” in time in the FSW world. If this was the case, then FSWJack and FSWKate would remember they were on an island that they never were on (never crashed) and detonated a bomb.

    My answer to Wally would be that you need to remember what Faraday had said as they were time traveling. That whatever they themselves did during this time, in reality, history would show that the end result would have happened anyway w/o the losties being there. (OK, so I paraphrased, please by all means , if someone can look at that episode, I think it would help to clear some of these things up)
    I believe we will be seeing Faraday sometime soon too as he seems to understand the time travel thing. Remember, he was shot/killed by his own mother back in the 50’s(?), but quite obviously did not wipe himself off the timeline for being born after that time.[/quote]

    I get what you are saying, that when the losties detonate the bomb, everything that happens to them is wiped clean… including the fact that they were even there to begin with… SO, Jack drops the bomb in the hole, big white light/flash BAM and the losties are gone, and no one remembers they were even there because suddenly nothing happened… In this instance I say you are totally right. BUT WHAT HAPPENED?

    There was an Incident at that time all along, but something about the incident has to have changed… everything else until that point would go back to normal (anything caused by time travel that is…)

    But maybe this is why the losties are also STILL on the island/// even if the slate has been wiped clean, there is a possibility that Ben could still have a weird faint memory of it (that one dry erase line that doesn’t quite erase all the way), because he was there before things were changed.

  143. Hammer says:

    I did read it…I’m saying it contradictory to say they were never there before the incident…since we know that TT put them there.

  144. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372056"]
    But maybe this is why the losties are also STILL on the island/// even if the slate has been wiped clean, there is a possibility that Ben could still have a weird faint memory of it (that one dry erase line that doesn’t quite erase all the way), because he was there before things were changed.[/quote]
    Exactly, because they WERE there through TT up until the incident…in the FSW.

  145. LostLove says:

    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened?
    I have to respectfully disagree. How can FSWBen remember FSWJack and FSWKate for things that happened before the incident? Jack and Kate never crashed on the island, so there was never a “loop back” in time in the FSW world. If this was the case, then FSWJack and FSWKate would remember they were on an island that they never were on (never crashed) and detonated a bomb.

    My answer to Wally would be that you need to remember what Faraday had said as they were time traveling. That whatever they themselves did during this time, in reality, history would show that the end result would have happened anyway w/o the losties being there. (OK, so I paraphrased, please by all means , if someone can look at that episode, I think it would help to clear some of these things up)
    I believe we will be seeing Faraday sometime soon too as he seems to understand the time travel thing. Remember, he was shot/killed by his own mother back in the 50’s(?), but quite obviously did not wipe himself off the timeline for being born after that time.[/quote]

    I get what you are saying, that when the losties detonate the bomb, everything that happens to them is wiped clean… including the fact that they were even there to begin with…

    SO, Jack drops the bomb in the hole, big white light/flash BAM and the losties are gone, and no one remembers they were even there because suddenly nothing happened… In this instance I say you are totally right. BUT WHAT HAPPENED?

    There was an Incident at that time all along, but something about the incident has to have changed… everything else until that point would go back to normal (anything caused by time travel that is…)

    But maybe this is why the losties are also STILL on the island/// even if the slate has been wiped clean, there is a possibility that Ben could still have a weird faint memory of it (that one dry erase line that doesn’t quite erase all the way), because he was there before things were changed.[/quote]

    I’ll make one small caveat or clarification to what I am saying and it is this: Right now, in the FSW world, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Ben etc…’ are going through life never having experienced the island, except for Ben, who had a few childhood years there. This is due to the incident happening in 1977.
    Now, the island Jack, Kate etc…, who actually took part in the incident, have that memory as it actually happened to them and they experienced it firsthand.
    Again, these 2 timelines have yet to re-intersect, with each other, so there is no reason for the FSW people to remember what they, their island characters, did as it didn’t happen to them, the FSW characters, yet.
    So, if and/or when the losties actually get off the island, Their island personas will merge, or intersect is probably a better word, with their FSW personas and it will be like they have this very real memory of being on the island. And therefore will have a foggy memory of each other, which may cause a few (Sawyer/Juliet) to make something out of it.

  146. wallyp says:

    —Also it seems as though Rogers behavior towards Ben DID change, whether Ben was shot or not— somewhere in there, Roger still has the emotions/feelings/experience of that event happening.

  147. DharmaGreg says:

    Anyone notice the confederate flag on Alex’s backpack? I think there is about to be a civil war. Jacob=Lincoln?
    Ben=John Wilkes Booth?

  148. LostLove says:

    Sorry about the above, I should have just put this down. (still learning the editing process on these replies, I guess)

    I’ll make one small caveat or clarification to what I am saying and it is this: Right now, in the FSW world, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Ben etc…’ are going through life never having experienced the island, except for Ben, who had a few childhood years there. This is due to the incident happening in 1977.
    Now, the island Jack, Kate etc…, who actually took part in the incident, have that memory as it actually happened to them and they experienced it firsthand.
    Again, these 2 timelines have yet to re-intersect, with each other, so there is no reason for the FSW people to remember what they, their island characters, did as it didn’t happen to them, the FSW characters, yet.
    So, if and/or when the losties actually get off the island, Their island personas will merge, or intersect is probably a better word, with their FSW personas and it will be like they have this very real memory of being on the island. And therefore will have a foggy memory of each other, which may cause a few (Sawyer/Juliet) to make something out of it.[/quote]

  149. LostGrrl says:

    U guys are making my head hurt. Gotta get back to work.

    (I never seem to be as productive at work on Wednesdays…)

  150. LizS says:

    Ugh, once again this TT/flash stuff is giving me a headache!

    I can sorta get that the FSW (2004) is life that will be BECAUSE of what’s happening now (2007)–the (2004)Island is at the bottom of the sea, and the plane doesn’t crash because, one guesses, in 2007 someone or some people do some thing.

    Which is absolutely freaky-odd, because it hasn’t happened yet, and when it does happen, Many Things Change. In many timelines? ???

    So, the Incident, which already happened, and was caused, or altered by Jack and the bomb, results in propelling 1977 people to 2007 where they rejoin their 2007 friends/enemies/destined-to-be toast folks from Ajira. But obviously, since they are standing on it, didn’t cause the Island to sink.

    Ergo, Something Else is going to happen to reconcile–or continue to fry our brains–the 2007 to the 2004 FSW. Some Thing has to cause the Island to sink, and Time to splinter off, and 2007 to rewind itself back to 2004, (and before, since we KNOW FSW Ben & Pa were on the Island, and left, which is different from What Was when we did this the 1st time)and the Plane Crash That Wasn’t, and the changes to people that we see in FSW.

    OK, my eyes are crossed and my head is spinning like a top!

    So, is FSW a reward? A rewind? An alternate? The Final Reality? Yikes!

    UNLESS, the Incident is what causes the splinter, and Jack & co are standing on Ghost Island, stuck in a time loop, needing to resolve the MIB/Jacob thing, so that existence can continue for their alternate selves???? in the FSW? And they never get to know their alternate selves have Lives?

    spin, spin, spin

  151. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372060"]—Also it seems as though Rogers behavior towards Ben DID change, whether Ben was shot or not— somewhere in there, Roger still has the emotions/feelings/experience of that event happening.[/quote]

    Wally, FSWBen, as a child could very well have been shot on the island. And maybe that was the cause to have left the island? I’m sure we will find out more regarding what happened in 1977 after the incident. Kind of like a FSW flashback!! LOL Hold onto your hats!! Wooo hooooooo

  152. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372062"]Sorry about the above, I should have just put this down. (still learning the editing process on these replies, I guess)

    I’ll make one small caveat or clarification to what I am saying and it is this: Right now, in the FSW world, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Ben etc…’ are going through life never having experienced the island, except for Ben, who had a few childhood years there. This is due to the incident happening in 1977.
    Now, the island Jack, Kate etc…, who actually took part in the incident, have that memory as it actually happened to them and they experienced it firsthand.
    Again, these 2 timelines have yet to re-intersect, with each other, so there is no reason for the FSW people to remember what they, their island characters, did as it didn’t happen to them, the FSW characters, yet.
    So, if and/or when the losties actually get off the island, Their island personas will merge, or intersect is probably a better word, with their FSW personas and it will be like they have this very real memory of being on the island. And therefore will have a foggy memory of each other, which may cause a few (Sawyer/Juliet) to make something out of it.[/quote][/quote]
    *****************
    I think that even though we are seeing an alternate time for our losties in the FSW I do believe that everything that happened to them DID already occur. I think that is why Jack keeps looking at them as if to say, “don’t I know you?” I don’t know why they don’t remember, but deep down I think they do…Kate also had the look when Claire said the name Aaron. 2004 is now altered for them but I think it is occuring after the other stuff already happened to them.
    As for the on island stuff, I do not know if I think it is occuring simultaniously with the FSW characters or what…still trying to work that one out.
    But I don’t think those events were erased…WHH and course correction is involved…IMO

  153. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372064"]Ugh, once again this TT/flash stuff is giving me a headache!

    I can sorta get that the FSW (2004) is life that will be BECAUSE of what’s happening now (2007)–the (2004)Island is at the bottom of the sea, and the plane doesn’t crash because, one guesses, in 2007 someone or some people do some thing.

    Which is absolutely freaky-odd, because it hasn’t happened yet, and when it does happen, Many Things Change. In many timelines? ???

    So, the Incident, which already happened, and was caused, or altered by Jack and the bomb, results in propelling 1977 people to 2007 where they rejoin their 2007 friends/enemies/destined-to-be toast folks from Ajira. But obviously, since they are standing on it, didn’t cause the Island to sink.

    Ergo, Something Else is going to happen to reconcile–or continue to fry our brains–the 2007 to the 2004 FSW. Some Thing has to cause the Island to sink, and Time to splinter off, and 2007 to rewind itself back to 2004, (and before, since we KNOW FSW Ben & Pa were on the Island, and left, which is different from What Was when we did this the 1st time)and the Plane Crash That Wasn’t, and the changes to people that we see in FSW.

    OK, my eyes are crossed and my head is spinning like a top!

    So, is FSW a reward? A rewind? An alternate? The Final Reality? Yikes!

    UNLESS, the Incident is what causes the splinter, and Jack & co are standing on Ghost Island, stuck in a time loop, needing to resolve the MIB/Jacob thing, so that existence can continue for their alternate selves???? in the FSW? And they never get to know their alternate selves have Lives?

    spin, spin, spin[/quote]

    Liz, you need a hug!! LOL
    I think you have it in your last paragraph.

  154. wallyp says:

    Flash Sideways, Ben and Ilana, “I’ll have you…”

  155. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372058"][quote comment="372056"]
    But maybe this is why the losties are also STILL on the island/// even if the slate has been wiped clean, there is a possibility that Ben could still have a weird faint memory of it (that one dry erase line that doesn’t quite erase all the way), because he was there before things were changed.[/quote]
    Exactly, because they WERE there through TT up until the incident…in the FSW.[/quote]

    Yes, the Kate, Jack, et al, created the incident, and Ben would have remembered them… they were never wiped out of history. When they caused the bomb to explode, they set off a separate timeline, because they changed a variable in time.

    Remember, Farraday told them that “people” are the variable – meaning that they have the ability to choose to do things differently and change the course of events.

    Therefore, Sideways Ben exists in the OTHER timeline, and if he were to see Kate and Jack (and have a really good memory), he would recognize them. Because they were there…

  156. Mr. $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372011"][quote comment="372005"]Did anybody else think that Ben was going to be banging Alex? When she knocked on his door that late at night, I was really hoping that that storyline would take place. I might just be a perv, but that would have been awesome.[/quote]
    ——–
    You are definately a perv…that would have been wrong on several levels.[/quote]
    It definitely would have been a great mind freak. I don’t think it would have been as disturbing as Boone scrumping with Shannon.

  157. Lostfan says:

    I too thought that Alex was flirting with Ben, but found it sickening.

    On the whole incident issue…our enhanced episodes don’t have an accurate description: “what would have happened if O815 didn’t crash” – it should read “what would have happened if the island sunk in 1977.” The island and Jacob existed pre-incident…but our Losties’ entire lives were manipulated by Jacob to get them to the island…why? To be candidates? Why them? We have no clue.

    Without the need to protect the island…their lives are somehow different – even better. In FSW – Locke is still in the wheelchair, but not by the hands of his father. His father…maybe never even needed a new kidney. Roger and Ben are happy together. Kate claimed she was innocent – maybe the truth. Nadia is alive and well. You get the point.

    So even though their lives should have been the same up until that point, with the only difference being that they landed safely, they are very different because they no longer have this destiny to fulfill.

    So the incident changed everything after 1977 and, paradoxically before 1977. I’m willing to bet that Sawyer’s not a conman because the original Sawyer didn’t con his parents…therefore not causing their death.

    My biggest question is…when we see 2004 Eloise, will she smile and be hanging out with 2004 Dan, who will be completely well and never put his girlfriend in a coma? And will her memory of her shooting him be erased or still there – but somehow avoided? Or will the incident have changed everything…including what happened back in the 1950s? Too many questions.

  158. Jibblixxx says:

    [quote comment="372071"]
    My biggest question is… when we see 2004 Eloise, will she…
    [/quote]
    Good point. Will flashsideways Desmond be wearing robes at a monastery?

  159. ereeste says:

    Is is obvious to anybody else the impending showdown between Jack & Sawyer?

    Does you really believe that anybody other than Jack is going to be the “winning candidate”?

    Notice how they’ve went from being called Survivors to Candidate’s?

    That scene between Alpert & Shephard where they talked over a lit stick of dynamite, great scene. Flock will have his hands full with them.

    In the lighthouse episode Jacob told Hurley that he needed to help somebody get to the island, I dont think that somebody was Widmore. Im still expecting Hurley to assist Des in joining the beach crew.

    One of the reasons I started watching this show in season 1 was b/c I needed to know what the whispers were all about. I still dont get it, so here’s to hoping they explain that this year. It must have something to do with the blonde kid.

    Enjoy

  160. Greg Manson says:

    [quote comment="372073"]Notice how they’ve went from being called Survivors to Candidate’s?
    [/quote]
    In early 2005, they are known to the world-at-large as having survived a terrible plane crash and months on a remote Indian Ocean island, before paddling to civilization, hence “Survivors”.

    Years later, after Ajira 316 returns them, the secret squirrel club: Ilana, Dogen and MIB, are just letting them know they are “Candidates.”

    Those are two separate conversations. Billions around the planet know them as survivors, while a handful on a covert island know them as candidates. You are comparing mangoes to pineapples.

  161. Jaime says:

    I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.

  162. Greg Manson says:

    [quote comment="372075"]I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.[/quote]

    Locke flashed through time AND was crossed off the cave wall.

  163. ereeste says:

    [quote comment="372074"][quote comment="372073"]Notice how they’ve went from being called Survivors to Candidate’s?
    [/quote]

    Those are two separate conversations. Billions around the planet know them as survivors, while a handful on a covert island know them as candidates. You are comparing mangoes to pineapples.[/quote]

    I disagree. First, the show is not about Billions around the planet, it’s about a handful on a covert island. What happens on the island is relevant to the show, what happens around the world is not.

    Second, While in the beginning we were lead to believe they were survivors of a plane crash, it has since been proved that it was no fluke. The were in fact ‘brought’ to the island, they did not crash there unexpected. They were brought to the island because, they were candidates.

    Nearly every person who ‘survived’ the plane crash, has been killed off one by one. Leaving only the “Candidates” left alive.

    Those are some tasty Mango’s, dont you think?

  164. Jaime says:

    At that time he hadnt left the island and come back. His name wasnt crossed off yet

  165. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372076"][quote comment="372075"]I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.[/quote]

    Locke flashed through time AND was crossed off the cave wall.[/quote]
    ******************************************

    At that time he hadnt left the island and come back. His name wasnt crossed off yet.

  166. Amber says:

    I wonder about llana and Jacob. She said he was like a father to her. She has alot of answers. Seems very upset that he is gone. In the episode when he goes to see her when she looks to be in make shift hospital does she know him in that scene?

  167. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372080"]
    I wonder about ilana and Jacob. She said he was like a father to her. She has alot of answers. Seems very upset that he is gone. In the episode when he goes to see her when she looks to be in make shift hospital does she know him in that scene?
    [/quote]
    She is referred to as his “bodyguard.” Alpert is referenced as an “advisor.”

    She could be an oldie (gifted by Jacob) from the Black Rock. She could handle his off-island concerns, while Richard looks after on-island affairs.

  168. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372080"]I wonder about llana and Jacob. She said he was like a father to her. She has alot of answers. Seems very upset that he is gone. In the episode when he goes to see her when she looks to be in make shift hospital does she know him in that scene?[/quote]

    Yes, Ilana seemed to know Jacobe when he visited her in the hospital. He was there to ask her for a favor.

  169. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372075"]I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.[/quote]

    BUT was Charlotte a candidate? She flashed, but I don’t recall anyone saying her name was on the cave wall.

  170. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372029"]I’ve been pretty much done with Altverse since the third episode with it. Ok, I get it, these folks paths will cross regardless. I thought last week there would be some kind of impetus for something bigger to happen, but it doesn’t look that way. I would hope that there is a much bigger purpose for Altverse than showing that (in my Denny Green voice) “they are…who we thought they were!”

    Again I’m just riding along and enjoying the show. I was a little relieved that the source of Richard’s gift was a Jacob fondle, because I really thought they were going to say he drank from the healing water or something like that, and I’d be thinking why didn’t everyone else. I’m still not in love with that answer but it is an answer nonetheless.

    Just a general comment, my thing about the mysteries of this show, and make no mistake, ultimately this IS a long drawn out mystery show, so we as viewers should be expecting a fair amount of answers, is that the more complex a mystery appears to be, the greater my expectation for a complex answer.

    My contribution to the theories, with the caveat I really don’t have a good clue as to what’s happening…as far as the Altverse is concerned, imo all bets are off as to trying to reconcile when or if the island disappeared, with that timeline. In other words, I can’t really read into Ben & Dad leaving the island (did he say he left the island or just left the Dharma Initiative…which would not necessarily mean they were on the island, can’t remember) as prior to the incident or after or whatever. I guess I’m trying to say is the incident or something has erased all traces of the island and its related effect on everyone, even the Black Rock stuff.

    The fact that they showed the island underwater in my opinion was more of a dramatic interpretation of the island no longer existing.[/quote]

    Maybe the island beeing shown underwater was dramatic interpretation of the island not existing in the FSW, but I’m not so sure. Ben’s father was in Dharma in the FSW, but why would Dharma have even existed if not to explore the island? Dharma was founded by Hanso who was decended from the captain of the Black Rock. I think the incident still occured which may have sunk the island or it was sunk by someone we don’t know about yet.

  171. Murphey says:

    New Power for Flocke?

    How did he open that chain on Ben’s leg, telekinesis? For a while I was thinking maybe all the powers could be explained by the exotic/magnetic properties of the island and TT/course correction, and maybe Jacob and Smokey were just men once. Maybe they were men, but they seem to have god-like powers now. Jacob’s touch preventing people from being able to kill themselves and pushing them to the island. Maybe Flocke had an invisible ghost open the chain? Maybe Hurley could have seen it! Well, it was metal, maybe Flocke could have done it by controling magnetism.

    Maybe the powers are better left unexplained anyway. Like when Lucas tried to explain the force with metachlorians – worst thing ever.

  172. Bobola says:

    FINALLY!
    The show is back on track…this was easily the best episode this season with all the classic elements that made me get hooked on it.
    Even the sappy element of the Alex story worked for me.
    Excellent pacing, editing, and camera work.

    And Hurley says he’s hungry…Yeah!
    Widmore is back. Jin looking hotter than ever, Ben scheming but with a twist, dialogue more in line with reality (even in this strange world).

    Re the comment;
    “I too thought that Alex was flirting with Ben, but found it sickening.”

    Oh Baloney; beauty (or ugliness) is in the eye (and mind) of the beholder. There was not even a hint of Alex “flirting”. But I guess a young girl who shows friendliness to a teacher who truly cares for her is grounds for jumping to ugly conclusions for some.

  173. andre gr says:

    [quote comment="371982"][quote comment="371978"]

    [/quote]

    Candidates – I think this is just another mystery to be solved. The six were Locke, Ford, Jarrah, Sheppard, Reyes and Kwon. Ilana KNOWS that Locke is dead, so he cannot be one of the six and she made no illusion that it might be BOTH Sun and Jin. Ilana knows something we don’t. (Yeah, ’cause THAT never happens on LOST!)

    : ) P[/quote]

    What about Aaron? I am thinking the six candidates might be the oceanic six.

  174. andre gr says:

    [quote comment="371999"][quote comment="371964"]Did Illana let Ben stay with them because he admitted to killing Jacob and said he was sorry? I wonder if that ties into the rules somehow?[/quote]

    ********
    I think Ben showed real compassion in regards to what he had done. He thought he had to do what Locke said per his judgement with smokey who looked like Alex. He realized he was wrong and I think just like Jacob would forgive his sins so did Llana. I do also think this was a turning point for his character and he now knows who is good and who he needs to go after. Llana is going to need all the help she can get and I think Ben will turn out to be a good ally.[/quote]

    Ilana said that Flocke can’t change his form any more. Also, Flocke seemed surprised when Ben told him that his dead daughter encountered him in the temple. With those things said I can’t imagine that smokey took the form of Alex in the temple. Someone else did.

  175. andre gr says:

    [quote comment="372017"][quote comment="372016"]It is interesting what Richard said, that he was touched by Jacob and given a gift = eternal life. Says he is unable to kill himself. So…

    Do Jack, Katie, Sun/Jin, Hurley, and Sawyer now have this gift of eternal life, since Jacob touched them? And what about Locke? Jacob touched him, so does that mean he would not have been able to kill himself with that rope before Ben came along and did the job?

    Also, it occurs to me that we’ve heard about the concept of being unable to kill yourself before. After Michael got off the island with Walt, didn’t he try to kill himself? And wasn’t he told that “the island” (Jacob??) would not allow him to kill himself? I wonder how it’s related.[/quote]
    I took it as the island (Jacob?) wasn’t done with Michael more than he couldn’t commit suicide…Christian (MIB?) told him he could ‘go now’ (die) after he ‘redeemed’ himself. This adds more confusion as to WHO Christian is when he appears.[/quote]
    Another person that has been touched by Jacob is Ben. Also very interesting is the comment about WHO Christian really was on the freighter. I am thinking that whenever Christian had appeared MIB was really the person in his form.

  176. andre gr says:

    About Alex in the temple encountering Ben, I think it was herself.

  177. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="372090"]About Alex in the temple encountering Ben, I think it was herself.[/quote]

    I have to disagree, because if she was her dead self, she would have known that Locke was a fake at that time. And she wouldn’t have told Ben to follow him implicitly. Everything she said goes right along with the idea that Smokie was appearing as Alex.

  178. RGS says:

    [quote comment="372084"]
    Maybe the island beeing shown underwater was dramatic interpretation of the island not existing in the FSW, but I’m not so sure. Ben’s father was in Dharma in the FSW, but why would Dharma have even existed if not to explore the island? Dharma was founded by Hanso who was decended from the captain of the Black Rock. I think the incident still occured which may have sunk the island or it was sunk by someone we don’t know about yet.[/quote]

    Those are great pts, and logically that makes sense re: Dharma, so because I want the show to have logical roots I’m 90% agreeing with you that something sunk the island.

    I disagree about the midicholorians(sp). I had no problem with that, but it also wasn’t a mystery that I was dying to know. I likened it to X-men mutations.

  179. Bob says:

    Hadn’t seen this question posted, but the camera appeared to follow the man in Ben’s FSW who was changing a light bulb in the outside hallway when the Principal was talking with Ben. I froze the image a couple times but couldn’t make out who it was (besides I’m not a Lost expert). Anyone else note this?

  180. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372089"][quote comment="372017"][quote comment="372016"]It is interesting what Richard said, that he was touched by Jacob and given a gift = eternal life. Says he is unable to kill himself. So…

    Do Jack, Katie, Sun/Jin, Hurley, and Sawyer now have this gift of eternal life, since Jacob touched them? And what about Locke? Jacob touched him, so does that mean he would not have been able to kill himself with that rope before Ben came along and did the job?

    Also, it occurs to me that we’ve heard about the concept of being unable to kill yourself before. After Michael got off the island with Walt, didn’t he try to kill himself? And wasn’t he told that “the island” (Jacob??) would not allow him to kill himself? I wonder how it’s related.[/quote]
    I took it as the island (Jacob?) wasn’t done with Michael more than he couldn’t commit suicide…Christian (MIB?) told him he could ‘go now’ (die) after he ‘redeemed’ himself. This adds more confusion as to WHO Christian is when he appears.[/quote]
    Another person that has been touched by Jacob is Ben. Also very interesting is the comment about WHO Christian really was on the freighter. I am thinking that whenever Christian had appeared MIB was really the person in his form.[/quote]
    _________________________________________
    So if MIB is trapped on the island and wants to leave, then he coulnd’t have taken the form of Christian on the freighter with Michael, right??

  181. jinx says:

    [

    Yes, the Kate, Jack, et al, created the incident, and Ben would have remembered them… they were never wiped out of history. When they caused the bomb to explode, they set off a separate timeline, because they changed a variable in time.

    Remember, Farraday told them that “people” are the variable – meaning that they have the ability to choose to do things differently and change the course of events.

    Therefore, Sideways Ben exists in the OTHER timeline, and if he were to see Kate and Jack (and have a really good memory), he would recognize them. Because they were there…[/quote]
    ///////////////////////////////////////////
    people keep saying that if ben were to see kate and jack in the fws… he may have a faint memory of them…what about locke…
    he has seen locke on several occassions and shows no sign of recognition…or am i missing some point?

  182. jimbo says:

    I might be wrong, but i noticed that when Ben made the right decision in FS that we were showen that after he made amens for killing Jacob. So if good deeds/ right choices are made on the island then the FS world will be making the right choices/ making a better life for them selves. comments?

  183. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372083"][quote comment="372075"]I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.[/quote]

    BUT was Charlotte a candidate? She flashed, but I don’t recall anyone saying her name was on the cave wall.[/quote]

    Yes – I think Lewis was a name on the cave (or lighthouse?) that was crossed out.

  184. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372096"]I might be wrong, but i noticed that when Ben made the right decision in FS that we were showen that after he made amens for killing Jacob. So if good deeds/ right choices are made on the island then the FS world will be making the right choices/ making a better life for them selves. comments?[/quote]

    Yes, others (above) have argued that point. But even if that’s so, I just don’t see how the Island world and the Sideways world will converge. Unless they’re never meant to.

  185. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372095"][

    Yes, the Kate, Jack, et al, created the incident, and Ben would have remembered them… they were never wiped out of history. When they caused the bomb to explode, they set off a separate timeline, because they changed a variable in time.

    Remember, Farraday told them that “people” are the variable – meaning that they have the ability to choose to do things differently and change the course of events.

    Therefore, Sideways Ben exists in the OTHER timeline, and if he were to see Kate and Jack (and have a really good memory), he would recognize them. Because they were there…[/quote]
    ///////////////////////////////////////////
    people keep saying that if ben were to see kate and jack in the fws… he may have a faint memory of them…what about locke…
    he has seen locke on several occassions and shows no sign of recognition…or am i missing some point?[/quote]
    Yes, the point you are missing is that Ben would remember Kate et al as a child which happened before the event that created the FSW. His memory of Locke would be wiped out by the event that caused FSW.

  186. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372094"]
    So if MIB is trapped on the island and wants to leave, then he coulnd’t have taken the form of Christian on the freighter with Michael, right??[/quote]
    What we don’t know yet is if MIB was taking on Christian’s form or if Christian was an apparition.

  187. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372087"]What about Aaron? I am thinking the six candidates might be the oceanic six.[/quote]

    I thought that too, except that Ilana didn’t know which Kwon was the candidate, but she knew that Sun was an O6 because she was on the plane with her.

    : ) P

  188. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372088"]Ilana said that Flocke can’t change his form any more. Also, Flocke seemed surprised when Ben told him that his dead daughter encountered him in the temple. With those things said I can’t imagine that smokey took the form of Alex in the temple. Someone else did.[/quote]

    A) we know that Flocke and the Smoke Monster are one and the same now
    B) Flocke led Ben to where he fell through the hole and then went to get rope
    C) as soon as Flocke has gone, Smokey appears
    D) out of the Smoke, there is an apparition of Alex
    E) Smokey retreats and seconds later, whoop-dare is Flocke

    First, I think Flocke/Smokey DEFINITELY took the form of Alex – she was an apparition, much like Yemi.

    : ) P

  189. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372100"][quote comment="372094"]
    So if MIB is trapped on the island and wants to leave, then he coulnd’t have taken the form of Christian on the freighter with Michael, right??[/quote]
    What we don’t know yet is if MIB was taking on Christian’s form or if Christian was an apparition.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I’m saying I think we do know….MIB specifically said he’s trapped and wants to leave, right? Well, he couldn’t have been on the freighter, so Christain is an apparition.

  190. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372100"][quote comment="372094"]
    So if MIB is trapped on the island and wants to leave, then he coulnd’t have taken the form of Christian on the freighter with Michael, right??[/quote]
    What we don’t know yet is if MIB was taking on Christian’s form or if Christian was an apparition.[/quote]
    ________________________________
    Don’t forget Christian appeared off-island to Jack that time he was working late at the hospital. Either Christian was not MIB in that instance or by “trapped” he means “as the smoke monster”.

  191. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372102"][quote comment="372088"]Ilana said that Flocke can’t change his form any more. Also, Flocke seemed surprised when Ben told him that his dead daughter encountered him in the temple. With those things said I can’t imagine that smokey took the form of Alex in the temple. Someone else did.[/quote]

    A) we know that Flocke and the Smoke Monster are one and the same now
    B) Flocke led Ben to where he fell through the hole and then went to get rope
    C) as soon as Flocke has gone, Smokey appears
    D) out of the Smoke, there is an apparition of Alex
    E) Smokey retreats and seconds later, whoop-dare is Flocke

    First, I think Flocke/Smokey DEFINITELY took the form of Alex – she was an apparition, much like Yemi.

    : ) P[/quote]

    I think that MIB got stuck as Locke once Jacob was killed… No longer an apparition, he as Locke is as good as human. Before Jacob was killed he was still just an apparition.

  192. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372103"][quote comment="372100"][quote comment="372094"]
    So if MIB is trapped on the island and wants to leave, then he coulnd’t have taken the form of Christian on the freighter with Michael, right??[/quote]
    What we don’t know yet is if MIB was taking on Christian’s form or if Christian was an apparition.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I’m saying I think we do know….MIB specifically said he’s trapped and wants to leave, right? Well, he couldn’t have been on the freighter, so Christain is an apparition.[/quote]
    An apparition formed by MIB? We know he can get to Hydra. Do you remember the big debate of how close to the island you have to be in order to be ‘at the island’? I think the writers would expect us to believe that when Christian appeared on the freighter, the freighter at that time was close enough for MIB to appear on it.

  193. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="372099"][quote comment="372095"][

    Therefore, Sideways Ben exists in the OTHER timeline, and if he were to see Kate and Jack (and have a really good memory), he would recognize them. Because they were there…[/quote]
    ///////////////////////////////////////////
    people keep saying that if ben were to see kate and jack in the fws… he may have a faint memory of them…what about locke…
    he has seen locke on several occassions and shows no sign of recognition…or am i missing some point?[/quote]
    Yes, the point you are missing is that Ben would remember Kate et al as a child which happened before the event that created the FSW. His memory of Locke would be wiped out by the event that caused FSW.[/quote]

    Kate, Jack, Sawyer et al would not have been there. The event that brought them to the island (815 crash) did not happen. Therefore, the traveling through time did not happen. Much like the freighter explosion did not happen. So Ben would have no memory of them because they were never there. Ben & Roger left the island at some point…Ben was never shot. For that matter, Ethan and his parents left the island – thus meaning Ethan never became an other.

  194. Hammer says:

    Also, we don’t know what ‘stuck’ means yet for MIB. Maybe he can ‘appear’ off island as an apparition, but his being can’t ‘be’ off island.

  195. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372107"]
    Kate, Jack, Sawyer et al would not have been there. The event that brought them to the island (815 crash) did not happen. Therefore, the traveling through time did not happen. Much like the freighter explosion did not happen. So Ben would have no memory of them because they were never there. Ben & Roger left the island at some point…Ben was never shot. For that matter, Ethan and his parents left the island – thus meaning Ethan never became an other.[/quote]
    Yes, they would because it DID happen, the event wiping things out happened linear. You have to picture the events happening on a time line…not a redo. Everything we have seen HAS happened in order in which it was presented.

  196. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="372106"][quote comment="372103"][quote comment="372100"][quote comment="372094"]
    So if MIB is trapped on the island and wants to leave, then he coulnd’t have taken the form of Christian on the freighter with Michael, right??[/quote]
    What we don’t know yet is if MIB was taking on Christian’s form or if Christian was an apparition.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I’m saying I think we do know….MIB specifically said he’s trapped and wants to leave, right? Well, he couldn’t have been on the freighter, so Christain is an apparition.[/quote]
    An apparition formed by MIB? We know he can get to Hydra. Do you remember the big debate of how close to the island you have to be in order to be ‘at the island’? I think the writers would expect us to believe that when Christian appeared on the freighter, the freighter at that time was close enough for MIB to appear on it.[/quote]

    Agreed. When MIB appeared as Christian, he had claimed Jacob’s cabin – “spoke on his behalf” on numerous occasions, no doubt. He told Locke that dying was a “sacrifice” all in an effort to take over his body when he returned. He appeared as Alex to insure that Ben would listen to Flocke no matter what. Just as Jacob manipulated the Losties – MIB has manipulated people like Locke and Ben as well, in various forms.

  197. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="372109"][quote comment="372107"]
    Kate, Jack, Sawyer et al would not have been there. The event that brought them to the island (815 crash) did not happen. Therefore, the traveling through time did not happen. Much like the freighter explosion did not happen. So Ben would have no memory of them because they were never there. Ben & Roger left the island at some point…Ben was never shot. For that matter, Ethan and his parents left the island – thus meaning Ethan never became an other.[/quote]
    Yes, they would because it DID happen, the event wiping things out happened linear. You have to picture the events happening on a time line…not a redo. Everything we have seen HAS happened in order in which it was presented.[/quote]

    So they won’t remember the events of the 70’s until 2007?

  198. rowjimmy says:

    Do we know where Alex’s body is at?I can’t remember if Ben buried her or not.

  199. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372111"][quote comment="372109"][quote comment="372107"]
    Kate, Jack, Sawyer et al would not have been there. The event that brought them to the island (815 crash) did not happen. Therefore, the traveling through time did not happen. Much like the freighter explosion did not happen. So Ben would have no memory of them because they were never there. Ben & Roger left the island at some point…Ben was never shot. For that matter, Ethan and his parents left the island – thus meaning Ethan never became an other.[/quote]
    Yes, they would because it DID happen, the event wiping things out happened linear. You have to picture the events happening on a time line…not a redo. Everything we have seen HAS happened in order in which it was presented.[/quote]

    So they won’t remember the events of the 70’s until 2007?[/quote]
    I guess I can’t answer that. But I would guess between 2004 and 2077 since my theory is that Ben is going to run into someone that he saw on island when he was a kid…in the FSW.

  200. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372112"]Do we know where Alex’s body is at?I can’t remember if Ben buried her or not.[/quote]
    I’d say no we don’t. They didn’t show Ben burying her, I assumed he got right back on with trying to save himself as leader.

  201. Hurley's Pet says:

    Smokie has been trying to kill candidates all along. I’m sure that Hurley’s buddy Dave was Smokie as well.

    What gets me is that Alpert said that Smokie is “stuck like that”, meaning that he can no longer emulate anyone else since he took on the form of Flocke. How could he be Christian then at the beginning of Season 5 showing Lapidus and Sun around the Dharma compound? That was pre-Jacob’s murder… did Jacob have the same powers? Of course, to confuse it all, Claire was with Christian in the cabin, and Claire’s “friend” is Flocke…

  202. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372114"][quote comment="372112"]Do we know where Alex’s body is at?I can’t remember if Ben buried her or not.[/quote]
    I’d say no we don’t. They didn’t show Ben burying her, I assumed he got right back on with trying to save himself as leader.[/quote]
    Hmm another missing body with Alex

    Missing body=Jacob ?

  203. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372115"]Smokie has been trying to kill candidates all along. I’m sure that Hurley’s buddy Dave was Smokie as well.

    What gets me is that Alpert said that Smokie is “stuck like that”, meaning that he can no longer emulate anyone else since he took on the form of Flocke. How could he be Christian then at the beginning of Season 5 showing Lapidus and Sun around the Dharma compound? That was pre-Jacob’s murder… did Jacob have the same powers? Of course, to confuse it all, Claire was with Christian in the cabin, and Claire’s “friend” is Flocke…[/quote]
    I think I have it. MIB is stuck because he took the form of a candidate or better yet a ‘numbers’ candidate. Christian was not a candidate and in fact was not even alive on the island so he didn’t get stuck as Christian or any other person for that matter.

    Actually Ilana said it, not Alpert.

  204. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372108"]Also, we don’t know what ‘stuck’ means yet for MIB. Maybe he can ‘appear’ off island as an apparition, but his being can’t ‘be’ off island.[/quote]
    ************
    I think this is the case.
    I also like the idea that since Jacob was killed MIB can no longer take on another form…only Locke. Interesting that he can interchange forms between Locke and smokie. Do you think that means he can no longer appear as any other dead person?

    I am not sure if I think he was st

  205. Miss lost says:

    I rewatched the ep last night and I thought about the conversation between Jack and Richard. Richard stated that it is impossible to kill yourself once Jacob has touched you but that someone else could do it.
    Maybe this has something to do with the bomb. When Jack threw the bomb down the hole this could help confirm that the bomb did not go off much like the dynomite did not explode. Could be why they flased instead and none of the people touched by Jacob were hurt.

    I thought Jack was fabulous in this scene. He has been trying to figure out his purpose and I think he is finally letting go and believing in this mysterious place and realizing he is important.

  206. Miss lost says:

    I have a few other things that I was thinking about in regards to this weeks episode and past occurances.
    First, it seems that Jacob was against the Dharma. We know that Richard acted on behalf of Jacob and for a while they had a truce. In the end though we see Richard, along with Ben and the others gas the entire group. It would seem that this had to be a request from Jacob. Jacob was the protector of the island and the DI was exploiting it.

    2nd~ in regards to the DI. I am still trying to figure out if I think Eloise and Widmore were involved. Could it be possible that they were tempted by MIB and somehow helped fund DI? (maybe Paike is somehow involved in this funding as well). Maybe MIB was using DI to find a way off the island or a way to set him free.

    Where I start to talk myself out of them being on the wrong side is the fact that they both seemed to be instumental in getting the 06ers back to the island. Widmore helped John and gave him the necessary info to go find the other 06ers (although one could point to this helping MIB).
    Eloise made sure they were on the right plane and did her part in talking to Jack about the importance of going and recreating to the best of their ability the 815 flight. She does appear to be on Jacobs side and knew they all were needed! She was indeed in a DI station but that doesn’t have to mean she was a DI member, rather just like the other DI stations, they were taken over by the others.
    So what side are they on and are Widmore and Eloise on the same side?

  207. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372119"]I rewatched the ep last night and I thought about the conversation between Jack and Richard. Richard stated that it is impossible to kill yourself once Jacob has touched you but that someone else could do it.
    Maybe this has something to do with the bomb. When Jack threw the bomb down the hole this could help confirm that the bomb did not go off much like the dynomite did not explode. Could be why they flased instead and none of the people touched by Jacob were hurt.

    [/quote]
    A couple thoughts:

    Juliette made it through the flash and died anyway.

    I wonder why the island sank if the detonator really didn’t go off.

    Why did Juliette(through Miles) say it worked if it didn’t.

    I am thinking it DID detonate BUT maybe you are correct, the ‘touched’ people’s timeline kept going because they were touched AND the FSW reset also happened. The island has to reconcile these two realities.

  208. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372120"]

    2nd~ in regards to the DI. I am still trying to figure out if I think Eloise and Widmore were involved. Could it be possible that they were tempted by MIB and somehow helped fund DI? (maybe Paike is somehow involved in this funding as well). Maybe MIB was using DI to find a way off the island or a way to set him free.

    Where I start to talk myself out of them being on the wrong side is the fact that they both seemed to be instumental in getting the 06ers back to the island. Widmore helped John and gave him the necessary info to go find the other 06ers (although one could point to this helping MIB).
    Eloise made sure they were on the right plane and did her part in talking to Jack about the importance of going and recreating to the best of their ability the 815 flight. She does appear to be on Jacobs side and knew they all were needed! She was indeed in a DI station but that doesn’t have to mean she was a DI member, rather just like the other DI stations, they were taken over by the others.
    So what side are they on and are Widmore and Eloise on the same side?[/quote]
    Good topic since Widmore is close by.

    I don’t think there is any doubt that Widmore and Paik helped fund DI(per the ARGs). I think Widmore did it in order to find a way back to the island. I’m not sure it matters whose side he is on (like Ben this week) he just wants the power (like Ben this week).

    IF in fact MIB doing his thing will contribute to the end of the world (per DI) or what ever Eloise meant by “God help us all.”, I think her side is obvious.

    I also feel like both sides needed to get everyone back to the island in order to do their thing. Jacob needed his candidates (especially Jack) back and MIB needed them back to execute his loophole plan. Just don’t yet know the details for each side.

  209. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372121"][quote comment="372119"]I rewatched the ep last night and I thought about the conversation between Jack and Richard. Richard stated that it is impossible to kill yourself once Jacob has touched you but that someone else could do it.
    Maybe this has something to do with the bomb. When Jack threw the bomb down the hole this could help confirm that the bomb did not go off much like the dynomite did not explode. Could be why they flased instead and none of the people touched by Jacob were hurt.

    [/quote]
    A couple thoughts:

    Juliette made it through the flash and died anyway.

    I wonder why the island sank if the detonator really didn’t go off.

    Why did Juliette(through Miles) say it worked if it didn’t.

    I am thinking it DID detonate BUT maybe you are correct, the ‘touched’ people’s timeline kept going because they were touched AND the FSW reset also happened. The island has to reconcile these two realities.[/quote]

    ************
    So do you think this is what caused the island to sink?

    I really can’t decide if I think it detonated or not. It just seems that Juliette would not have survived at all if it had went off. She may have died as a result of her ijuries in the fall. As to her saying “it worked” not sure about that either. I do think though we are going to see her and Sawyer in a FSW sharing a cup of coffee as other have also stated.

  210. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372097"][quote comment="372083"][quote comment="372075"]I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.[/quote]

    BUT was Charlotte a candidate? She flashed, but I don’t recall anyone saying her name was on the cave wall.[/quote]

    Yes – I think Lewis was a name on the cave (or lighthouse?) that was crossed out.[/quote]
    *********************************

    Yes, LEWIS #140

  211. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372119"]
    I thought Jack was fabulous in this scene. He has been trying to figure out his purpose and I think he is finally letting go and believing in this mysterious place and realizing he is important.[/quote]

    *************************************

    It was nice to see poor ol Jack get something right for once. :)

  212. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372124"][quote comment="372097"][quote comment="372083"][quote comment="372075"]I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.[/quote]

    BUT was Charlotte a candidate? She flashed, but I don’t recall anyone saying her name was on the cave wall.[/quote]

    Yes – I think Lewis was a name on the cave (or lighthouse?) that was crossed out.[/quote]
    *********************************

    Yes, LEWIS #140[/quote]

    What about Juliet? She flashed after the bomb went off. Was she on the wall too?

  213. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372123"][quote comment="372121"][quote comment="372119"]

    [/quote]
    A couple thoughts:

    Juliette made it through the flash and died anyway.

    I wonder why the island sank if the detonator really didn’t go off.

    Why did Juliette(through Miles) say it worked if it didn’t.

    I am thinking it DID detonate BUT maybe you are correct, the ‘touched’ people’s timeline kept going because they were touched AND the FSW reset also happened. The island has to reconcile these two realities.[/quote]

    ************
    So do you think this is what caused the island to sink?

    I really can’t decide if I think it detonated or not. It just seems that Juliette would not have survived at all if it had went off. She may have died as a result of her ijuries in the fall. As to her saying “it worked” not sure about that either. I do think though we are going to see her and Sawyer in a FSW sharing a cup of coffee as other have also stated.[/quote]
    I am struggling with that being the reason, if for only because I think the reason the Black Rock is inland is because the island must have sunk before. DocH once said he thought it may be a defense mechanism. Or maybe it’s gone dormant waiting for the timelines to reconcile and go back to normal. I dunno.

    I humbly proclaim to be the first that said Juliette and Sawyer will meet for coffee, going Dutch in an FSW episode. It felt exactly like when Charlotte was flashing and ended up seeing Faraday, which eventually happened in a TT episode.

  214. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372115"]Smokie has been trying to kill candidates all along. I’m sure that Hurley’s buddy Dave was Smokie as well.

    What gets me is that Alpert said that Smokie is “stuck like that”, meaning that he can no longer emulate anyone else since he took on the form of Flocke. How could he be Christian then at the beginning of Season 5 showing Lapidus and Sun around the Dharma compound? That was pre-Jacob’s murder… did Jacob have the same powers? Of course, to confuse it all, Claire was with Christian in the cabin, and Claire’s “friend” is Flocke…[/quote]

    Interesting about Hurley and Dave: At the time Dave tried to tempt Hurley to jump off the cliff, Hurley had not yet been touched. That means, while he was a candidate, he COULD have killed himself had he jumped off the cliff.

  215. Hammer says:

    Poached from a friend:

    “Speaking of Elba and Napelion, dosn’t it seem like MIB has been exhiled to the island. Perhaps he kept his title and lost his power also?”

    Hmmmm…his ‘power’ is ‘at home’?

  216. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372128"][quote comment="372115"]Smokie has been trying to kill candidates all along. I’m sure that Hurley’s buddy Dave was Smokie as well.

    What gets me is that Alpert said that Smokie is “stuck like that”, meaning that he can no longer emulate anyone else since he took on the form of Flocke. How could he be Christian then at the beginning of Season 5 showing Lapidus and Sun around the Dharma compound? That was pre-Jacob’s murder… did Jacob have the same powers? Of course, to confuse it all, Claire was with Christian in the cabin, and Claire’s “friend” is Flocke…[/quote]

    Interesting about Hurley and Dave: At the time Dave tried to tempt Hurley to jump off the cliff, Hurley had not yet been touched. That means, while he was a candidate, he COULD have killed himself had he jumped off the cliff.[/quote]
    Maybe, but really don’t think Dave was MIB. Dave was a figment of Hugo’s imagination before the island. He was having issues in that episode and it was him getting over them.

    But Dave on the island is definately one of those things that YOU have to decide if it was MIB or just Hugo’s imagination…I doubt they will confirm either way on the show.

  217. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372126"][quote comment="372124"][quote comment="372097"][quote comment="372083"][quote comment="372075"]I’m thinking that Sun did not flash out of the Ajira plane because she was not a candidate. Therefore Jin is the Kwon candidate.

    People who are candidates also flashed through time on the island while those that werent or were crossed off the cave wall stayed in their real time.[/quote]

    BUT was Charlotte a candidate? She flashed, but I don’t recall anyone saying her name was on the cave wall.[/quote]

    Yes – I think Lewis was a name on the cave (or lighthouse?) that was crossed out.[/quote]
    *********************************

    Yes, LEWIS #140[/quote]

    What about Juliet? She flashed after the bomb went off. Was she on the wall too?[/quote]
    ******************************

    Yes, BURKE #58

  218. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372127"][quote comment="372123"][quote comment="372121"][quote comment="372119"]

    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    ************
    I do think though we are going to see her and Sawyer in a FSW sharing a cup of coffee as other have also stated.[/quote]

    I humbly proclaim to be the first that said Juliette and Sawyer will meet for coffee, going Dutch in an FSW episode. It felt exactly like when Charlotte was flashing and ended up seeing Faraday, which eventually happened in a TT episode.[/quote]
    **************************************

    I am sticking with my guns and saying we will not see this. IMHO I think we will hear those words just not out of Juliet’s mouth.

  219. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372123"][quote comment="372121"][quote comment="372119"]I rewatched the ep last night and I thought about the conversation between Jack and Richard. Richard stated that it is impossible to kill yourself once Jacob has touched you but that someone else could do it.
    Maybe this has something to do with the bomb. When Jack threw the bomb down the hole this could help confirm that the bomb did not go off much like the dynomite did not explode. Could be why they flased instead and none of the people touched by Jacob were hurt.

    [/quote]
    A couple thoughts:

    Juliette made it through the flash and died anyway.

    I wonder why the island sank if the detonator really didn’t go off.

    Why did Juliette(through Miles) say it worked if it didn’t.

    I am thinking it DID detonate BUT maybe you are correct, the ‘touched’ people’s timeline kept going because they were touched AND the FSW reset also happened. The island has to reconcile these two realities.[/quote]

    ************
    So do you think this is what caused the island to sink?

    I really can’t decide if I think it detonated or not. It just seems that Juliette would not have survived at all if it had went off. She may have died as a result of her ijuries in the fall. As to her saying “it worked” not sure about that either. I do think though we are going to see her and Sawyer in a FSW sharing a cup of coffee as other have also stated.[/quote]

    I think Juliette did set the bomb off but they flashed out immediately. She died of her wounds from falling.

    The bomb going off must have been what Richard was referring to when he told Sun that he saw Jin and the other Losties all die. He didn’t know they flashed at that point. This also suggests that nothing was changed by the Losties setting off the bomb as they always had, Richard remembered them doing it in the island time line, WHH.

  220. Mario Van Perveys says:

    [quote comment="372005"]Did anybody else think that Ben was going to be banging Alex? When she knocked on his door that late at night, I was really hoping that that storyline would take place. I might just be a perv, but that would have been awesome.[/quote]
    _____

    dude your such a PERV! so wrong get so right. I mean Alex (the actress) is in her twenties and does have a bangin’ bod.

    I’d like to give her an oral exam on european market integration in the late 20th century…

  221. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372134"][quote comment="372005"]Did anybody else think that Ben was going to be banging Alex? When she knocked on his door that late at night, I was really hoping that that storyline would take place. I might just be a perv, but that would have been awesome.[/quote]
    _____

    dude your such a PERV! so wrong get so right. I mean Alex (the actress) is in her twenties and does have a bangin’ bod.

    I’d like to give her an oral exam on european market integration in the late 20th century…[/quote]
    You two must not have daughters.

    Officer: Are you sure?

    Miles: Well, I saw Hammer standing over the teacher’s body holding a bloody dagger…so yes I’m sure.

  222. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372135"][quote comment="372134"][quote comment="372005"]Did anybody else think that Ben was going to be banging Alex? When she knocked on his door that late at night, I was really hoping that that storyline would take place. I might just be a perv, but that would have been awesome.[/quote]
    _____

    dude your such a PERV! so wrong get so right. I mean Alex (the actress) is in her twenties and does have a bangin’ bod.

    I’d like to give her an oral exam on european market integration in the late 20th century…[/quote]
    You two must not have daughters.

    Officer: Are you sure?

    Miles: Well, I saw Hammer standing over the teacher’s body holding a bloody dagger…so yes I’m sure.[/quote]
    *******
    Funny! (hammer that is…not the other two)
    And pretty sure that is not ever the direction they would want the show to go…

  223. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372129"]Poached from a friend:

    “Speaking of Elba and Napelion, dosn’t it seem like MIB has been exhiled to the island. Perhaps he kept his title and lost his power also?”

    Hmmmm…his ‘power’ is ‘at home’?[/quote]
    **************
    totally thought that piece of history was important and connected!

    Something I also thought about for our candidates. Maybe they have to have the islands best interest in mind…Candidates cannot be power hungry….
    could be the reason Ben fell out of favor with the island and got a tumor.
    I am not sure if i think the same for Widmore…is it about the power or did he really love the island and was so unhappy he was “tricked” into exile? He appeared to be a decent leader and really dedicated to being an other.
    I would love to see more on him and eloise…

  224. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372125"][quote comment="372119"]
    I thought Jack was fabulous in this scene. He has been trying to figure out his purpose and I think he is finally letting go and believing in this mysterious place and realizing he is important.[/quote]

    *************************************

    It was nice to see poor ol Jack get something right for once. :)[/quote]
    **************
    I think this scene was important for Jack as well as Richard. He is feeling alone and confused now that Jacob is gone. when he told Hurley not to listen to jacob I thought at first maybe this was a hint that it was Flocke coming to Hurley as Jacob. After I rewatched it I thought it was more that Richard was hurt and confused and angry at Jacob. I think Jack having faith that they were not going to die reaffirmed the faith in Richard. He may still not know what his purpose is (although I think Jack might now) he knows he is still needed. Jacob may be gone but he is still present and with them!

  225. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372127"][quote comment="372123"][quote comment="372121"][quote comment="372119"]

    [/quote]
    A couple thoughts:

    Juliette made it through the flash and died anyway.

    .[/quote]
    I am struggling with that being the reason, if for only because I think the reason the Black Rock is inland is because the island must have sunk before. DocH once said he thought it may be a defense mechanism. Or maybe it’s gone dormant waiting for the timelines to reconcile and go back to normal. I dunno.

    .[/quote]

    But we saw the Black Rock approaching the island. I would think maybe it ended up in the middle of the island b/c of Smokie?

  226. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372034"][quote comment="372029"]
    On the other hand, it is strange how Roger referred to them leaving the island and saying he wished they would’ve stayed. That tells me they did leave on the sub during the initial evacuation sounded by Chang. Otherwise, Rog would know the island is underwater.[/quote]

    I havent seen this mentioned by anyone so far, and this is just my take on Ben and Rogers convo, but to me it seemed like Roger regretted going to the island, not leaving. Im not sure of the exact wording but I think Roger said something along the lines of….”Imagine how different your life would be if I never signed up for that damn dharma initiative and brought you to the island” then Ben says something like “yeah dad, we would both be living happily ever after right now”.

  227. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372140"][quote comment="372034"][quote comment="372029"]
    On the other hand, it is strange how Roger referred to them leaving the island and saying he wished they would’ve stayed. That tells me they did leave on the sub during the initial evacuation sounded by Chang. Otherwise, Rog would know the island is underwater.[/quote]

    I havent seen this mentioned by anyone so far, and this is just my take on Ben and Rogers convo, but to me it seemed like Roger regretted going to the island, not leaving. Im not sure of the exact wording but I think Roger said something along the lines of….”Imagine how different your life would be if I never signed up for that damn dharma initiative and brought you to the island” then Ben says something like “yeah dad, we would both be living happily ever after right now”.[/quote]

    I thought it was the opposite. Roger said something like, “I never should have left the DI. I wanted you to have grown up among them.” This suggests he didn’t know the island sank.

  228. Duke says:

    [quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)[/quote]
    I think the Linus’ still being part of DHARMA in the FSW is the link back to original timeline. Ben is going to run into Jack or Kate or someone and ‘remember’ what happened leading up to the incident…I can only guess what that will do.[/quote]

    I agree— I think Ben could remember this, even if, technically, it didn’t happen…[/quote]

    Ben shouldn’t remember being shot because he was taken the others healing springs. Richard told Sawyer/Kate that if they saved him he would not remember any of it and would forever be changed.

  229. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372138"][quote comment="372125"][quote comment="372119"]
    I thought Jack was fabulous in this scene. He has been trying to figure out his purpose and I think he is finally letting go and believing in this mysterious place and realizing he is important.[/quote]

    *************************************

    It was nice to see poor ol Jack get something right for once. :)[/quote]
    **************
    I think this scene was important for Jack as well as Richard. He is feeling alone and confused now that Jacob is gone. when he told Hurley not to listen to jacob I thought at first maybe this was a hint that it was Flocke coming to Hurley as Jacob. After I rewatched it I thought it was more that Richard was hurt and confused and angry at Jacob. I think Jack having faith that they were not going to die reaffirmed the faith in Richard. He may still not know what his purpose is (although I think Jack might now) he knows he is still needed. Jacob may be gone but he is still present and with them![/quote]
    *********************************
    I too thought that he was referencing a possible Flock interjection while talking about Jacob. Then I realized Richard was a man at rock bottom. It was quite sad to see him that way, the same way we saw Ben when he killed Jacob. Although Richard’s faith may have been slightly restored, to me he seemed annoyed as well w/ Jack when he said “You seem to know all the answers Jack, now what?”

  230. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372139"]

    But we saw the Black Rock approaching the island. I would think maybe it ended up in the middle of the island b/c of Smokie?[/quote]
    We assume it was the Black Rock. So you think MIB/Smokie went out into the water, picked it up and took it inland?

  231. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372142"][quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)[/quote]
    I think the Linus’ still being part of DHARMA in the FSW is the link back to original timeline. Ben is going to run into Jack or Kate or someone and ‘remember’ what happened leading up to the incident…I can only guess what that will do.[/quote]

    I agree— I think Ben could remember this, even if, technically, it didn’t happen…[/quote]

    Ben shouldn’t remember being shot because he was taken the others healing springs. Richard told Sawyer/Kate that if they saved him he would not remember any of it and would forever be changed.[/quote]
    Good catch. So either way, my idea of that being how they start to link the two timelines is out the window.

  232. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372144"][quote comment="372139"]

    But we saw the Black Rock approaching the island. I would think maybe it ended up in the middle of the island b/c of Smokie?[/quote]
    We assume it was the Black Rock. So you think MIB/Smokie went out into the water, picked it up and took it inland?[/quote]

    Not necessarily at that point, the ship could have docked, but at some point maybe.

  233. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372146"][quote comment="372144"][quote comment="372139"]

    But we saw the Black Rock approaching the island. I would think maybe it ended up in the middle of the island b/c of Smokie?[/quote]
    We assume it was the Black Rock. So you think MIB/Smokie went out into the water, picked it up and took it inland?[/quote]

    Not necessarily at that point, the ship could have docked, but at some point maybe.[/quote]
    Okay…but for now I’m sticking with the sinking island trick.

  234. Mateo says:

    I saw on this blog that Aron could be one of the candidates… if that is the case, maybe the writers are playing with us, maybe its neither Sun or Jin, but their child? stretch, but thought I’d put it out there.

  235. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372145"][quote comment="372142"][quote comment="372050"][quote comment="372047"][quote comment="372044"]
    Ok, I never thought as far as The Losties never having had been there at all… but that makes sense… EXCEPT: if Jack never went back to drop the bomb—then THAT TOO never happened? (kdjsfhjsdksdksdsjjsdk)[/quote]
    I think the Linus’ still being part of DHARMA in the FSW is the link back to original timeline. Ben is going to run into Jack or Kate or someone and ‘remember’ what happened leading up to the incident…I can only guess what that will do.[/quote]

    I agree— I think Ben could remember this, even if, technically, it didn’t happen…[/quote]

    Ben shouldn’t remember being shot because he was taken the others healing springs. Richard told Sawyer/Kate that if they saved him he would not remember any of it and would forever be changed.[/quote]
    Good catch. So either way, my idea of that being how they start to link the two timelines is out the window.[/quote]

    IMO How they link the 2 timelines will be when they get off the island. After that intersection, the FSW (which currently we are seeing clips of in 2004) characters will have a bizarre memory of all that happened to them.
    Juliet clued us in when she said, “It worked”. She had intersected with her own FSW and she is alive and well, just like she should be since an incident happened in 1977 on the island. This is why I believe Juliet may very well be, or at least could be, looking up Sawyer’s whereabouts in the FSW US. She’s present, alive and fully aware of her experiences on the island.

  236. Miss lost says:

    It seems that all of the character centric episodes have shown some things about each that is same and some instances that are different. Jack’s dad is still dead, it appears he still had a difficult relationship with him, still a surgeon, his dad’s body is still missing, BUT Jack now has a dad.

    I was trying to do the same thing for Ben. He had still been a part of DI,but he had a better relationship with his dad (maybe as a result of getting shot and his dad feeling remorse when we last saw him talking to Kate).

    I was wondering if another mirror for Ben could be that quest for power. Maybe he had blackmailed Widmore in the same way he was trying to blackmail the principal. Island Ben wanted that power and the person he needed to take it from was Widmore. On island Ben did not care who he hurt to get that power…but off island Ben thought he wanted that power but not at all costs…

  237. Miss lost says:

    IMO How they link the 2 timelines will be when they get off the island. After that intersection, the FSW (which currently we are seeing clips of in 2004) characters will have a bizarre memory of all that happened to them.
    Juliet clued us in when she said, “It worked”. She had intersected with her own FSW and she is alive and well, just like she should be since an incident happened in 1977 on the island. This is why I believe Juliet may very well be, or at least could be, looking up Sawyer’s whereabouts in the FSW US. She’s present, alive and fully aware of her experiences on the island.
    *************
    Sometimes we hear people say they have clarity at the time of death or that their entire life flashes before their eyes…
    I still grapple with “it worked” because our losties have not complted their quest yet…
    But with that being said, Juliette does have some insight into their FSW lives and I think she does see her and Sawyer together.

    The only thing that would alter in my mind is dead is dead! Obviously something is reset or we would not have Sayid and Claire alive with no infection and Locke was definitely alive…
    So why wouldn’t Juliette be alive and well as well?

  238. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372151"]IMO How they link the 2 timelines will be when they get off the island. After that intersection, the FSW (which currently we are seeing clips of in 2004) characters will have a bizarre memory of all that happened to them.
    Juliet clued us in when she said, “It worked”. She had intersected with her own FSW and she is alive and well, just like she should be since an incident happened in 1977 on the island. This is why I believe Juliet may very well be, or at least could be, looking up Sawyer’s whereabouts in the FSW US. She’s present, alive and fully aware of her experiences on the island.
    *************
    Sometimes we hear people say they have clarity at the time of death or that their entire life flashes before their eyes…
    I still grapple with “it worked” because our losties have not complted their quest yet…
    But with that being said, Juliette does have some insight into their FSW lives and I think she does see her and Sawyer together.

    The only thing that would alter in my mind is dead is dead! Obviously something is reset or we would not have Sayid and Claire alive with no infection and Locke was definitely alive…
    So why wouldn’t Juliette be alive and well as well?[/quote]

    I agree, Juliette is alive in the FSW, or in her case the real world. There is no island Juliette anymore, that one died. Just like Mr Artz (the science teacher?), he died on the island but is very much alive and well in Ben’s FSW-2004 world, as he should be, since the plane never crashed due to events being altered since 1977.

  239. freckles says:

    My thought on the apparitions is that they are not all smokey. I believe that people who are “special” can make things happen, but then NOT control them. Kate can think of the horse and it appears. Walt can think of birds or polar bears and they appear. Hurley can think of Dave and he appears. Ecko created his brother, Ben thought of and summoned Alex just as Jack summoned his dad. Young Locke was drawing a smoke monster which then created it on the island but who controls all of it???? The losties are all indirectly summoning things but not controlling them.

  240. cesco says:

    Just want to throw this thought out.

    Jacob’s touch apparently blesses/curses one with the inability to take their life (according to Richard), which explains Michaels story arc on board the freighter. Now Jacob touched Locke after he fell out the window, meaning he would be unable to take his life at a future point. Flocke tells Richard who then tells Locke that “he is going to have to die” to get the others back to the island. Except he is unsuccessful at taking his life, because Ben interferes, and instead does him the favor.

    Perhaps Ben was instructed to kill Locke, knowing Locke couldn’t take his life?

  241. cesco says:

    [quote comment="372153"]My thought on the apparitions is that they are not all smokey. I believe that people who are “special” can make things happen, but then NOT control them. Kate can think of the horse and it appears. Walt can think of birds or polar bears and they appear. Hurley can think of Dave and he appears. Ecko created his brother, Ben thought of and summoned Alex just as Jack summoned his dad. Young Locke was drawing a smoke monster which then created it on the island but who controls all of it???? The losties are all indirectly summoning things but not controlling them.[/quote]

    I think the Polar bear was seen by other characters, and at one point lived in the cage that Sawyer was kept in, as part of the Dharma initiative, similar to the shark with the Dharma logo.

  242. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="372153"]My thought on the apparitions is that they are not all smokey. I believe that people who are “special” can make things happen, but then NOT control them. Kate can think of the horse and it appears. Walt can think of birds or polar bears and they appear. Hurley can think of Dave and he appears. Ecko created his brother, Ben thought of and summoned Alex just as Jack summoned his dad. Young Locke was drawing a smoke monster which then created it on the island but who controls all of it???? The losties are all indirectly summoning things but not controlling them.[/quote]
    Interesting. I was thinking in response to the idea that when Alex appeared to Ben it was Smokie, that maybe it wasn’t Smokie. It would explain Flocke’s surprise when Ben said he conversed with Alex. What if it was Jacob, or an actual manifestation of Alex, who understood that Flocke would lead Ben down a path that, while perhaps evil, would also lead to his redemption. So, by telling Ben he should do whatever Flocke tells him to do, Alex understands that doing so will ultimately lead to Ben’s revelation and redemption.

  243. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="372106"][quote comment="372103"][quote comment="372100"][quote comment="372094"]
    So if MIB is trapped on the island and wants to leave, then he coulnd’t have taken the form of Christian on the freighter with Michael, right??[/quote]
    What we don’t know yet is if MIB was taking on Christian’s form or if Christian was an apparition.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I’m saying I think we do know….MIB specifically said he’s trapped and wants to leave, right? Well, he couldn’t have been on the freighter, so Christain is an apparition.[/quote]
    An apparition formed by MIB? We know he can get to Hydra. Do you remember the big debate of how close to the island you have to be in order to be ‘at the island’? I think the writers would expect us to believe that when Christian appeared on the freighter, the freighter at that time was close enough for MIB to appear on it.[/quote]

    That’s right…remember that Jin was in the water near enough to the Island to have flashed, in the moments after the freighter blew up.

  244. 2Lost says:

    Did any notice that the number of our lost candidates is the same as their seat number on flight 815

  245. Jibblixxx says:

    [quote comment="372158"]Did any notice that the number of our lost candidates is the same as their seat number on flight 815[/quote]
    What show are you watching?

    Lets’ begin……

    Locke = #4 (uuuhhh, noooo!)

  246. ninny says:

    If people Jacob has touched can;t kill themselves and MIB couldn’t kill Jacob, he had to get someone else – Could Jacob and MIB be the same but dark side is bad and white is good? He(MIB) couldn’t kill himself(jacob) so he got Ben to do it? Sorry if mentioned before

  247. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372155"][quote comment="372153"]My thought on the apparitions is that they are not all smokey. I believe that people who are “special” can make things happen, but then NOT control them. Kate can think of the horse and it appears. Walt can think of birds or polar bears and they appear. Hurley can think of Dave and he appears. Ecko created his brother, Ben thought of and summoned Alex just as Jack summoned his dad. Young Locke was drawing a smoke monster which then created it on the island but who controls all of it???? The losties are all indirectly summoning things but not controlling them.[/quote]

    I think the Polar bear was seen by other characters, and at one point lived in the cage that Sawyer was kept in, as part of the Dharma initiative, similar to the shark with the Dharma logo.[/quote]

    Sawyer killed a polar bear in season 1…think that same bear also tried to kill Kate…btw im pretty sure they’ve already explained why the polar bear and horses and cows, etc. are on the island.

  248. freckles says:

    [quote comment="372156"][quote comment="372153"]My thought on the apparitions is that they are not all smokey. I believe that people who are “special” can make things happen, but then NOT control them. Kate can think of the horse and it appears. Walt can think of birds or polar bears and they appear. Hurley can think of Dave and he appears. Ecko created his brother, Ben thought of and summoned Alex just as Jack summoned his dad. Young Locke was drawing a smoke monster which then created it on the island but who controls all of it???? The losties are all indirectly summoning things but not controlling them.[/quote]
    Interesting. I was thinking in response to the idea that when Alex appeared to Ben it was Smokie, that maybe it wasn’t Smokie. It would explain Flocke’s surprise when Ben said he conversed with Alex. What if it was Jacob, or an actual manifestation of Alex, who understood that Flocke would lead Ben down a path that, while perhaps evil, would also lead to his redemption. So, by telling Ben he should do whatever Flocke tells him to do, Alex understands that doing so will ultimately lead to Ben’s revelation and redemption.[/quote]

    thank you, that’s what I was thinking, rather than the polar bear. Locke knew that Ben’s subconscious would lead the apparition of Alex to be angry and help him, but smokey didn’t actually know what exact words she would say to him. Smokey is not in complete control. that’s why sometimes Christian seems helpful and other times not. It’s the persons subconscious. Juliet’s subconscious said that her ex-husband wouldn’t let her go away unless he was hit by a truck and Bam, he was. Walt, we know did make the birds come through the window by some sort of telepathic powers. Just as smokey undid the chain on Ben.

  249. wallyp says:

    As far as apparitions go, my sense of this was closer to Alex being swayed by the MIB after she died. After all, she was basically allowed to die by Ben, so she would understandably be pissed off at him. MIB could offer her that chance to have a final confrontation… You have to remember that MIB was trying to convince everyone that he was Locke at that point, and I dont think he was actually suprised to hear what Alex told him.

    I think apparitions can appear out of a sense in the universe, that at one point those two actually interacted at -that- point. (As Alex and Ben have a conversation in the Sideways, she is still very much alive…)

    Hurleys friend Dave is a good example, as Dave was someone that he never actually met… he was imaginary… but perhaps at one point (another sideways reality gone by) Hurley really was friends with this guy Dave, who, was dead in this reality, but had in another reality not been dead at that same point.

    To get even deeper, it seemed that Dave may have been connected to Hurley and also Libby, as it appears that he showed up whenever the two were in close proximity.(Libby was in the hospital, watching Hurley…) Maybe Dave had a thing for Libby once, somewhere else, and made a deal after death, to stop Hurley from honking in on his Libby…

  250. scottcovert says:

    Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?

  251. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]

    Very good!

  252. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372168"][quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]

    Very good![/quote]
    _______________________________________
    Yeah, but it would have to happen after school hours when none of his students were in there. Because if a bunch of them died than it wouldn’t be true course correction because his students would not have died if he died on the island. Maybe he will be working in the evening or maybe it will happen during class but he will be the only one to actaully die.

  253. little prince says:

    does anyone know why Ben doesnt hate his Dad?…Did his mom not die during his birth in this FS so therefore his dad doesnt blame him for it?…i get that they got off the island with the sub but if i remember right…bens dad always hated him….its not something that just happened on the island…only thing i can think of is Jacob or the Island must have interfered somehow with his moms birth…so in the FS (where there is no island interference) it goes fine….right?

  254. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]
    ****************************************

  255. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]
    ****************************************

    So do you think that is how it will be for all characters? Keamy for example..Do you think that when Sayid shot Keamy in thre restaurant it was the same time/day that Sayid shot Keamy Keamy on the island?

    I’m still wondering if Keamy is actually dead. On island he survived Sayid knife to the back, Richard gunshot (bullet proof vest) before Ben finally killed him. Maybe we will see Keamy again??

  256. DocH says:

    I was just thinking how we categorize the oddities on LOST. Is this close?

    vision = an individuals’ vivid mental image, produced by imagination or hallucination.
    (Hugo had a vision of Jacob standing next to Dogen)

    apparition = a specter. a sudden or unusual sight. act of appearing or becoming visible unexpectedly to more than one person.
    (Juliet and Jack suddenly crossed paths with Harper Stanhope during a rainstorm, at night, in the jungle. They thought they heard whispers behind them, then turned back to Harper — but she was gone.)

    incarnate = invested with bodily nature and form. embodied in human form.
    (The Smoke Monster raced through the Temple, killing all of the inhabitants that it could find. When it had finished, it exited as John Locke – incarnate, put on its’ backpack and led its’ new followers into the jungle.)

  257. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372172"][quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]
    ****************************************

    So do you think that is how it will be for all characters? Keamy for example..Do you think that when Sayid shot Keamy in thre restaurant it was the same time/day that Sayid shot Keamy Keamy on the island?

    I’m still wondering if Keamy is actually dead. On island he survived Sayid knife to the back, Richard gunshot (bullet proof vest) before Ben finally killed him. Maybe we will see Keamy again??[/quote]

    ***************************

    Omar wouldnt match up with death days/times

  258. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372174"][quote comment="372172"][quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]
    ****************************************

    So do you think that is how it will be for all characters? Keamy for example..Do you think that when Sayid shot Keamy in thre restaurant it was the same time/day that Sayid shot Keamy Keamy on the island?

    I’m still wondering if Keamy is actually dead. On island he survived Sayid knife to the back, Richard gunshot (bullet proof vest) before Ben finally killed him. Maybe we will see Keamy again??[/quote]

    ***************************

    Omar wouldnt match up with death days/times[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Keamy is dead…the freighter blew up, remember??

  259. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372175"]
    Keamy is dead…the freighter blew up, remember??
    [/quote]
    Yeah, but Artz died two months before Keamy on the island. In FS-Los Angeles, Artz lives while Keamy is mopping-up his spilled eggs with his bloody face. So, course corrections/deviations aren’t day/time specific.

    And who says Artz can’t blow-up a classroom full of students? We don’t what happened in the students timeline. Maybe in the first timeline, a bus rolled-over and killed a bunch of students, while Artz was exploding at the Black Rock. Now, in the FS, Artz blows-up the students that would have died on the bus. You can’t just declare — “Artz can only blow himself” — when you haven’t thought it through.

  260. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372176"][quote comment="372175"]
    Keamy is dead…the freighter blew up, remember??
    [/quote]
    Yeah, but Artz died two months before Keamy on the island. In FS-Los Angeles, Artz lives while Keamy is mopping-up his spilled eggs with his bloody face. So, course corrections/deviations aren’t day/time specific.

    And who says Artz can’t blow-up a classroom full of students? We don’t what happened in the students timeline. Maybe in the first timeline, a bus rolled-over and killed a bunch of students, while Artz was exploding at the Black Rock. Now, in the FS, Artz blows-up the students that would have died on the bus. You can’t just declare — “Artz can only blow himself” — when you haven’t thought it through.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    First, I wasn’t relating Keamy’s death to when it actually happened on the island…someone commented that he might not be dead….I said he was…..

    Second, I’m sorry I don’t have your superior intellectual skills…..I guess I didn’t think it through as you so candidly pointed out….I stand corrected…Artz will blow up a bunch of his students too….

  261. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372175"][quote comment="372174"][quote comment="372172"][quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]
    ****************************************

    So do you think that is how it will be for all characters? Keamy for example..Do you think that when Sayid shot Keamy in thre restaurant it was the same time/day that Sayid shot Keamy Keamy on the island?

    I’m still wondering if Keamy is actually dead. On island he survived Sayid knife to the back, Richard gunshot (bullet proof vest) before Ben finally killed him. Maybe we will see Keamy again??[/quote]

    ***************************

    Omar wouldnt match up with death days/times[/quote]
    ______________________________________
    Keamy is dead…the freighter blew up, remember??[/quote]
    *********************************

    Sorry i meant dead in LAX times. He was shot in the chest but we dont know for a fact that he is dead.

  262. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372176"][quote comment="372175"]
    Keamy is dead…the freighter blew up, remember??
    [/quote]
    Yeah, but Artz died two months before Keamy on the island. In FS-Los Angeles, Artz lives while Keamy is mopping-up his spilled eggs with his bloody face. So, course corrections/deviations aren’t day/time specific.

    [/quote]
    **********************************

    I agree

  263. DocH says:

    I never meant to question intellectual skills… just to suggest a rational (to me) alternative to what was proposed in the thread above.

  264. little prince says:

    does anyone know why Ben doesnt hate his Dad?…Did his mom not die during his birth in this FS so therefore his dad doesnt blame him for it?…i get that they got off the island with the sub but if i remember right…bens dad always hated him….its not something that just happened on the island…only thing i can think of is Jacob or the Island must have interfered somehow with his moms birth…so in the FS (where there is no island interference) it goes fine….right?

    HAMMER?…PJ?…

  265. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372181"]does anyone know why Ben doesnt hate his Dad?…Did his mom not die during his birth in this FS so therefore his dad doesnt blame him for it?…i get that they got off the island with the sub but if i remember right…bens dad always hated him….its not something that just happened on the island…only thing i can think of is Jacob or the Island must have interfered somehow with his moms birth…so in the FS (where there is no island interference) it goes fine….right?

    HAMMER?…PJ?…[/quote]

    I think it depends on when/ why they left the island. IF Ben got shot (or hurt in some other way), maybe their relationship was repaired. His dad did seem to be “reforming” after Ben got hurt.

  266. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372180"]I never meant to question intellectual skills… just to suggest a rational (to me) alternative to what was proposed in the thread above.[/quote]
    __________________________________________
    Evidently I need to think things through….but it seems to me that if they were going to die some other way, then they would just die whatever “way” that was. They wouldn’t be blown up in a classroom. They were never in a alternate reality on an island like Artz was and therefore would not need to be course corrected…but again, I’m not thinking things through, so I’m wrong.

  267. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372178"]
    He was shot in the chest but we dont know for a fact that he is dead.
    [/quote]
    True that. Sayid blasted him in the chest. Keamy dropped to his knees — blood gushing from the center of his chest (so no body armor). Keamy started to keel sideways when Sayid was distracted by Jin. We never saw Keamy “officially” die – he may return. Or Sayid may let Jin go all Korean Ninja on the injured Keamy… or Jin may want to keep Keamy alive, to get his money (or wife) back.

  268. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372176"][quote comment="372175"]
    Keamy is dead…the freighter blew up, remember??
    [/quote]
    Yeah, but Artz died two months before Keamy on the island. In FS-Los Angeles, Artz lives while Keamy is mopping-up his spilled eggs with his bloody face. So, course corrections/deviations aren’t day/time specific.

    And who says Artz can’t blow-up a classroom full of students? We don’t what happened in the students timeline. Maybe in the first timeline, a bus rolled-over and killed a bunch of students, while Artz was exploding at the Black Rock. Now, in the FS, Artz blows-up the students that would have died on the bus. You can’t just declare — “Artz can only blow himself” — when you haven’t thought it through.[/quote]

    ***************
    I definately dont think times and dates need to match. Take Charlie, Desmond saw him die at least twice before he actually died. He saw him electrocuted, and shot, thats why he knew that Charlie needed to die,,, it doesnt have to be the same, it just needs to happen —approximately.

  269. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372184"][quote comment="372178"]
    He was shot in the chest but we dont know for a fact that he is dead.
    [/quote]
    True that. Sayid blasted him in the chest. Keamy dropped to his knees — blood gushing from the center of his chest (so no body armor). Keamy started to keel sideways when Sayid was distracted by Jin. We never saw Keamy “officially” die – he may return. Or Sayid may let Jin go all Korean Ninja on the injured Keamy… or Jin may want to keep Keamy alive, to get his money (or wife) back.[/quote]

    **********************************
    I missed the blood gushing. But yes i think its safe to say then that blood gushing = no armor. I’m still thinking that we will see him again in a hopeful Jin FS

  270. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372181"]does anyone know why Ben doesnt hate his Dad?…Did his mom not die during his birth in this FS so therefore his dad doesnt blame him for it?…i get that they got off the island with the sub but if i remember right…bens dad always hated him….its not something that just happened on the island…only thing i can think of is Jacob or the Island must have interfered somehow with his moms birth…so in the FS (where there is no island interference) it goes fine….right?

    HAMMER?…PJ?…[/quote]

    *************************************

    IMHO it could be anything.

    1. Many years have passed in FS time and they have both forgiving each other.

    2. Emily did not die in FS from childbirth therefore no blame from Roger

  271. little prince says:

    was Widmore who Jacob wanted to come to the island?…i still want it to be Desmond

  272. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372170"]does anyone know why Ben doesnt hate his Dad?…Did his mom not die during his birth in this FS so therefore his dad doesnt blame him for it?…i get that they got off the island with the sub but if i remember right…bens dad always hated him….its not something that just happened on the island…only thing i can think of is Jacob or the Island must have interfered somehow with his moms birth…so in the FS (where there is no island interference) it goes fine….right?[/quote]

    If we are to presume that the detonation in 1977 changed things AFTER that, then everything BEFORE that remains the same. Ben was still born prematurely. Emily still died in childbirth. Roger and Ben still went to the island. Sayid still shot Ben. Kate and Sawyer still took Ben to be healed.

    AFTER the detonation, things may have changed. Perhaps watching Ben nearly die, then having him “kidnapped” might have changed Roger’s perspective of fatherhood. He may have changed his ways. We know at some point later, they left the island.

    JMO,
    : ) P

  273. little prince says:

    If we are to presume that the detonation in 1977 changed things AFTER that, then everything BEFORE that remains the same. Ben was still born prematurely. Emily still died in childbirth. Roger and Ben still went to the island. Sayid still shot Ben. Kate and Sawyer still took Ben to be healed.

    AFTER the detonation, things may have changed. Perhaps watching Ben nearly die, then having him “kidnapped” might have changed Roger’s perspective of fatherhood. He may have changed his ways. We know at some point later, they left the island.

    JMO,
    : ) P[/quote]

    Wouldnt that theory contradict itself though….
    In the FS Ben likes his dad..and they have been to the island…but Sayid has not been to the Island…none of the losties have…so wouldnt that mean no getting shot and never kidnapped?

  274. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372181"]
    does anyone know why Ben doesnt hate his Dad?…[/quote]
    [quote comment="372187"]
    IMHO it could be anything.

    1. Many years have passed in FS time and they have both forgiving each other.

    2. Emily did not die in FS from childbirth therefore no blame from Roger
    [/quote]

    Young Ben was resented by his father, but didn’t particularly resent him back.

    Older Ben was hated by Roger, and Ben hated Roger back.

    In flashsideways world, Young Ben left with Roger after about 5 years on the island. In the original timeline, they shared the same house on the island for 20 years, before the Purge in the early 90’s.

    So leaving the island early (and not living in close quarters/society for 2 decades) seems to have prevented a mans’ resentment for his from growing into two mens’ hatred for one another. Heck, Roger may have found a new wife after he returned… or at least some self-esteem.

  275. little prince says:

    Another question for my fellow Blosters….if Lapiedus is a canidate…or was a canidate…why isnt he on the list with a number?…i just checked lostpedia…hes not on there…unless i missed it

  276. little prince says:

    Flocke said to Ben that Someones gotta take over his Job….was that a lie?…or are there canidates to be Smokey as well?…puts a whole knew thought process into it…does smokey have a list? or is his plan just to corrupt everybody on jacobs list…probly just corrupt…but it would be cool to think at the end of this there are 2 people we know sitting on the beach in Jacob and Essua’s place

  277. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372192"]Another question for my fellow Blosters….if Lapiedus is a canidate…or was a canidate…why isnt he on the list with a number?…i just checked lostpedia…hes not on there…unless i missed it[/quote]
    *****************************

    Illana and Bram were only discussing the possibility that Frank could be a candidate when bringing him along to the statue. His name was not on the cave wall or in the Lighthouse and as far as we know he has not met Jacob.

  278. DocH says:

    We have not seen:

    – “Lapidus” written on the cave wall.
    – “Lapidus” written on the lighthouse compass.
    – “Lapidus” touched by Jacob.

    Then again, we have not seen:

    – “Every” name written on the cave wall.
    – “Every” name written on the lighthouse compass.
    – “Every” individual touched by Jacob.

    It could be that Lapidus is “thee Candidate” that is the deal-breaker… the game-ender. We just haven’t seen that particular clue – with a a tremendous 10 hours of show remaining.

    Q: Why did the Smoke Monster pull pilot Seth Norris from the cockpit of OA815 and kill him?
    A: Because that was not the pilot the Smoke Monster expected to be in the cockpit. A non-candidate.

  279. Nona says:

    [quote comment="372180"]I never meant to question intellectual skills…[/quote]

    THAT would be a first

  280. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372197"]
    anoN wrote:
    THAT would be a first
    [/quote]
    Well, not until now.
    [;^)

  281. jb says:

    [quote comment="372196"]

    Q: Why did the Smoke Monster pull pilot Seth Norris from the cockpit of OA815 and kill him?
    A: Because that was not the pilot the Smoke Monster expected to be in the cockpit. A non-candidate.[/quote]

    I think this could be huuuuuuge.

  282. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372190"]
    Wouldnt that theory contradict itself though….
    In the FS Ben likes his dad..and they have been to the island…but Sayid has not been to the Island…none of the losties have…so wouldnt that mean no getting shot and never kidnapped?[/quote]

    And herein lies the problem… I happen to think that Faraday was originally RIGHT in his assessment when he said, “Whatever happens, happens.” I think that the detonation that Jack via Juliet caused WAS the incident and that because there were major changes to what was “supposed” to be the incident, there will be course corrections in the adjusted timeline.

    : ) P

  283. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372194"][quote comment="372192"]Another question for my fellow Blosters….if Lapiedus is a canidate…or was a canidate…why isnt he on the list with a number?…i just checked lostpedia…hes not on there…unless i missed it[/quote]
    *****************************

    Illana and Bram were only discussing the possibility that Frank could be a candidate when bringing him along to the statue. His name was not on the cave wall or in the Lighthouse and as far as we know he has not met Jacob.[/quote]

    There were, ostensibly, 360 names on that wheel, and potentially THOUSANDS in that cave. Not seeing the name does not mean it isn’t there.

    : ) P

  284. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="372129"]Poached from a friend:

    “Speaking of Elba and Napelion, dosn’t it seem like MIB has been exhiled to the island. Perhaps he kept his title and lost his power also?”

    Hmmmm…his ‘power’ is ‘at home’?[/quote]

    Totally what I was thinking when I heard Ben explaining Elba. He said the Napoleon was exiled from his home (MIB says he wants to go home), but worse yet for Napoleon was that he was lot his power.

  285. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="372193"]Flocke said to Ben that Someones gotta take over his Job….was that a lie?…or are there canidates to be Smokey as well?…puts a whole knew thought process into it…does smokey have a list? or is his plan just to corrupt everybody on jacobs list…probly just corrupt…but it would be cool to think at the end of this there are 2 people we know sitting on the beach in Jacob and Essua’s place[/quote]

    I thought it unusual that when Smokey was talking with Sawyer, he is all about getting off and says (paraphrase) that Jacob’s list is a joke and that the island doesn’t need protecting. However, as you pointed out, he has something different to say to Ben.

  286. Seajam says:

    So, based on the last twenty or so posts, I think a relevant question is what must be course corrected and what doesn’t have to be? Must Roger die? Must Ben kill him? Does CC require Ben to hate Roger and v/v? Did Keamy have to die or did it just happen that way? Are only deaths CC?

  287. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="372193"]but it would be cool to think at the end of this there are 2 people we know sitting on the beach in Jacob and Essua’s place[/quote]

    That is my prediction for the ending and a lot of others as well. I believe the twist will be we will know which two are left but not which “side” they represent. We will then have years to discuss before C & D reveal it as a deathbed confession.

  288. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372199"][quote comment="372196"]

    Q: Why did the Smoke Monster pull pilot Seth Norris from the cockpit of OA815 and kill him?
    A: Because that was not the pilot the Smoke Monster expected to be in the cockpit. A non-candidate.[/quote]

    I think this could be huuuuuuge.[/quote]
    ***********
    i think this is important too…also why Lapidus brought it up again. He is important, we just don’t know how or why yet.

  289. Miss lost says:

    Flocke is obviously not free yet or he would have just left. He is still plotting. Interesting that he tempted Ben with the power to be the new Jacob and that he left the gun. What he was really hoping was that Ben would kill Llana. It appears there are certain people he himself cannot kill. Maybe it is candidates, maybe it is those touched by Jacob, not sure who and why, but I think it why he needed Sayid to kill Dogen. He needs his team to take out each other…not sure how or why that sets him free but I am sure we will see soon enough.
    I also like the suggestion that maybe he also has to find a replacement like Jacob needs one…to keep the island in balance.

  290. Miss lost says:

    I posted this earlier…Do you think MIB had something to do with Dharma?
    It seems to me that Jacob was against DI bc it would appear that it was at his request that they were gassed and killed.
    Was Jacob just protecting the island as the DI was trying to exploit the island?

  291. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372181"]does anyone know why Ben doesnt hate his Dad?…Did his mom not die during his birth in this FS so therefore his dad doesnt blame him for it?…i get that they got off the island with the sub but if i remember right…bens dad always hated him….its not something that just happened on the island…only thing i can think of is Jacob or the Island must have interfered somehow with his moms birth…so in the FS (where there is no island interference) it goes fine….right?

    HAMMER?…PJ?…[/quote]
    My strong opinion is because Ben DID get shot and Roger seemed to ‘change’ after that.

  292. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372172"][quote comment="372167"]Arzt prediction –

    he will die, at the same time he died on 2004 planecrash island time from tnt

    reason – he works in science and chemistry, and Ben was not able to gain power and get him updated equipment – death by misadventure coming soon for Arzt? explosion in a chem lab?[/quote]
    ****************************************

    So do you think that is how it will be for all characters? Keamy for example..Do you think that when Sayid shot Keamy in thre restaurant it was the same time/day that Sayid shot Keamy Keamy on the island?

    I’m still wondering if Keamy is actually dead. On island he survived Sayid knife to the back, Richard gunshot (bullet proof vest) before Ben finally killed him. Maybe we will see Keamy again??[/quote]
    I don’t think exact time and day…I think it will be like Des ‘saving’ Charlie and Eloise telling Des fate will win. So since the incident has changed details, it could be a slightly different time frame for each dead person but course correction will happen.

  293. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372204"]So, based on the last twenty or so posts, I think a relevant question is what must be course corrected and what doesn’t have to be? Must Roger die? Must Ben kill him? Does CC require Ben to hate Roger and v/v? Did Keamy have to die or did it just happen that way? Are only deaths CC?[/quote]
    To me…deaths for sure. Being alive long enough to affect major events of fate is problem, so if you are supposed to die, you will die close to the correct time and date. Emotions…no, if you have the incorrect emotion that prevents you from killing someone you were supposed to kill…course correction will kill that person instead. Soooo, IF detonating the bomb stopped everything that happened between the 70s and ’04, then fate is in the process of course correcting.

  294. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372209"]I posted this earlier…Do you think MIB had something to do with Dharma?
    It seems to me that Jacob was against DI bc it would appear that it was at his request that they were gassed and killed.
    Was Jacob just protecting the island as the DI was trying to exploit the island?[/quote]
    I see it like this:

    Widmore was behind DHARMA because he was banished. He may have been using DHARMA to keep in touch with island until he could find a way for island to let him back(current conflict…Jacob is dead?). He advised them on how to set up(sonic fence) and exploit the island. Eventually Ben gets recruited by the Others so they can get rid of the exploiters. Jacob approved of the purge because the were exploiting the island’s properties, etc.

    So I guess…no, I don’t think MIB was behind DHARMA. Charles is Napolean too. Banished and trying to get back ‘home’ and return to power.

  295. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="372213"][quote comment="372209"]I posted this earlier…Do you think MIB had something to do with Dharma?
    It seems to me that Jacob was against DI bc it would appear that it was at his request that they were gassed and killed.
    Was Jacob just protecting the island as the DI was trying to exploit the island?[/quote]
    I see it like this:

    Widmore was behind DHARMA because he was banished. He may have been using DHARMA to keep in touch with island until he could find a way for island to let him back(current conflict…Jacob is dead?). He advised them on how to set up(sonic fence) and exploit the island. Eventually Ben gets recruited by the Others so they can get rid of the exploiters. Jacob approved of the purge because the were exploiting the island’s properties, etc.

    So I guess…no, I don’t think MIB was behind DHARMA. Charles is Napolean too. Banished and trying to get back ‘home’ and return to power.[/quote]

    But wasn’t Dharma present on the island and Ben a member of DI while Widmore was the leader of the others? So, he couldn’t have been behind DI because he was banished, since he was banished much later. Right?

  296. Sassafras says:

    [quote comment="372213"][quote comment="372209"]I posted this earlier…Do you think MIB had something to do with Dharma?
    It seems to me that Jacob was against DI bc it would appear that it was at his request that they were gassed and killed.
    Was Jacob just protecting the island as the DI was trying to exploit the island?[/quote]
    I see it like this:

    Widmore was behind DHARMA because he was banished. He may have been using DHARMA to keep in touch with island until he could find a way for island to let him back(current conflict…Jacob is dead?). He advised them on how to set up(sonic fence) and exploit the island. Eventually Ben gets recruited by the Others so they can get rid of the exploiters. Jacob approved of the purge because the were exploiting the island’s properties, etc.

    So I guess…no, I don’t think MIB was behind DHARMA. Charles is Napolean too. Banished and trying to get back ‘home’ and return to power.[/quote]

    It seemed to me that Widmore was banished after DHARMA – wasn’t Ben pushing Alex on the swing in Dharmaville at the beginning of that scene? And they sent Widmore out in the Dharma sub. Those things point to Widmore’s banishment happening after Dharma was gassed and the Others took over their houses and sub.

  297. londonboy says:

    I haven’t seen anyone discuss where Richard ‘was’. Apparently, Jack and Hurley wouldn’t believe it. A lot else about Richard was sort of answered this ep, but what did that mean?

    And if course correction is going on in sideways timeline (is it definitely/possibly/not 2004?) shouldn’t Roger Linus be dead by this stage? Or am I missing something?

    And I’m going to say it one last time – Jack’s cut on his neck and appendix scar just seem to stand out as wrong somehow. But no-one else seems to be discussing it, so maybe I’m making something out of nothing (hey, we’ve all been there).

  298. Hammer says:

    Yep, yep…mis spoke for sure. Let me attempt to correct myself.

    Widmore was banished because of his affairs off the island. He was spending lots of time off island.
    I assume much of his time spent off island was setting up Widmore Corp. which we know through the ARGs at least helped in funding DI. I also assumed that he was corrupted and may have been using DI to exploit the island. I still don’t think MIB had anything to do with DI.

    I do think Jacob ‘okayed’ the purge, but not every battle Jacob fights has to be against MIB.

  299. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372217"]I haven’t seen anyone discuss where Richard ‘was’. Apparently, Jack and Hurley wouldn’t believe it. A lot else about Richard was sort of answered this ep, but what did that mean?

    And if course correction is going on in sideways timeline (is it definitely/possibly/not 2004?) shouldn’t Roger Linus be dead by this stage? Or am I missing something?

    And I’m going to say it one last time – Jack’s cut on his neck and appendix scar just seem to stand out as wrong somehow. But no-one else seems to be discussing it, so maybe I’m making something out of nothing (hey, we’ve all been there).[/quote]
    Richard’s answer was “Not yet.” Which meant to me he is going to tell Jack all about himself pretty soon. I’m being patient.

    No explanation for Roger still being alive.

    It was pretty obvious that there will be something significant about Jack’s neck. Seems to me it will part of how they link the two time lines together. (Good thing you said it one last time….LOL)

  300. londonboy says:

    Thanks Hammer. Good thing you’re patient :-)

    I’m trying to work out how he balances ‘I never age’ but ‘Where I’ve been? You’re not going to believe it.’

    Jack’s scars do seem obviously significant – just surprised they haven’t featured here more. Although there’s so little to go on, there’s not much to play with. Not that that normally stops us.

  301. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372220"]Thanks Hammer. Good thing you’re patient :-)

    I’m trying to work out how he balances ‘I never age’ but ‘Where I’ve been? You’re not going to believe it.’

    Jack’s scars do seem obviously significant – just surprised they haven’t featured here more. Although there’s so little to go on, there’s not much to play with. Not that that normally stops us.[/quote]
    Actually, where Richard was COULD already have answered. Looking at it again…Jack asked “Where did you come from.” When he said you wouldn’t believe me, maybe he was saying that because he knew he needed them to help him die and needed the intrigue to get them to follow him. Maybe not yet meant: As soon as they realize I’m not taking them to the Temple, I’ll tell them that I was at the Temple and everyone is dead…but not until I can get their help. So in effect, he DID tell them WHERE he came from.

  302. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372220"]
    Jack’s scars do seem obviously significant – just surprised they haven’t featured here more. Although there’s so little to go on, there’s not much to play with. Not that that normally stops us.[/quote]
    Not featured much because it falls through the cracks of how the two time lines are connected. Between characters looking in the mirror and having a few deja vu looks on their faces…that neck wound seems like a physical connection more than a memory one.

  303. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372223"][quote comment="372220"]
    Jack’s scars do seem obviously significant – just surprised they haven’t featured here more. Although there’s so little to go on, there’s not much to play with. Not that that normally stops us.[/quote]
    Not featured much because it falls through the cracks of how the two time lines are connected. Between characters looking in the mirror and having a few deja vu looks on their faces…that neck wound seems like a physical connection more than a memory one.[/quote]

    Personally, I think the appendix scar has been dealt with in its entirety. They chose to focus on that because it was a big deal to fans in last season’s scenes (I KNOW I wasn’t alone in checking for that scar BEFORE he looked at it in the mirror!) and also to establish that a new/adjusted timeline had been created. The fact that Jack asked his mother about his appendectomy was likely done just to establish this.

    I agree that the cut on his neck is important. I look forward to finding out why!

    : ) P

  304. DocH says:

    Widmore is on FLocke’s side.

    Widmore intercepted Locke in Tunisia.

    Widmore gave Locke the services of Abaddon to enable collecting the OA6 for a return trip to the island.

    Widmore told Locke that the speed-dial on the phone he gave him is #23.

    FLocke is now grande-dame at the Temple, and island wide, following the demise of Jacob.

    FLocke (posing as Jacob) got Jack to break the mirrors — allowing Widmore to finally locate the island.

    Widmore is cruising to the island in the sub, the Widmore-Locke-Smokey-MIB-FLocke connection is tight now.

    KATE is the spoiler (alert!). Sawyer is working a FLocke con. Jack is, as always, clueless!

  305. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="372226"]Widmore is on FLocke’s side.

    Widmore intercepted Locke in Tunisia.

    Widmore gave Locke the services of Abaddon to enable collecting the OA6 for a return trip to the island.

    Widmore told Locke that the speed-dial on the phone he gave him is #23.

    FLocke is now grande-dame at the Temple, and island wide, following the demise of Jacob.

    FLocke (posing as Jacob) got Jack to break the mirrors — allowing Widmore to finally locate the island.

    Widmore is cruising to the island in the sub, the Widmore-Locke-Smokey-MIB-FLocke connection is tight now.

    KATE is the spoiler (alert!). Sawyer is working a FLocke con. Jack is, as always, clueless![/quote]

    The only thing that definitely doesn’t make sense here in these theories is that Flocke couldn’t have posed as Jacob, allowing Jack to break the mirrors, because…MIB cannot appear as anybody else except Flocke anymore. Remember, he’s trapped now as Flocke. That’s been established, I think pretty definitively.

  306. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372227"]
    The only thing that definitely doesn’t make sense here in these theories is that Flocke couldn’t have posed as Jacob, allowing Jack to break the mirrors, because…MIB cannot appear as anybody else except Flocke anymore. Remember, he’s trapped now as Flocke. That’s been established, I think pretty definitively.[/quote]
    MIB/Smokey is only restricted to FLocke form when he appears “in the flesh” (aka. incarnate). That doesn’t mean that MIB/Smokey can’t appear as anything it wants to when it is an ‘apparition’ or ‘vision’ (not fleshly).

    The only “Jacob” we have seen after the stabbing by Ben — is in Hurley’s mind (a vision). No one else has seen Jacob (as Jacob) since he was stabbed. SO – Hugo is seeing “Jacob” – but that ‘vision’ is really MIB/Smokey telling Hugo to tell Jack to break the mirrors, not Jacob doing so.

    I do think that FLocke, and Sawyer, have seen the ‘new’ Jacob – as the blond-haired kid in the jungle.

  307. LostJunkie says:

    [quote comment="372228"][quote comment="372227"]
    The only thing that definitely doesn’t make sense here in these theories is that Flocke couldn’t have posed as Jacob, allowing Jack to break the mirrors, because…MIB cannot appear as anybody else except Flocke anymore. Remember, he’s trapped now as Flocke. That’s been established, I think pretty definitively.[/quote]
    MIB/Smokey is only restricted to FLocke form when he appears “in the flesh” (aka. incarnate). That doesn’t mean that MIB/Smokey can’t appear as anything it wants to when it is an ‘apparition’ or ‘vision’ (not fleshly).

    The only “Jacob” we have seen after the stabbing by Ben — is in Hurley’s mind (a vision). No one else has seen Jacob (as Jacob) since he was stabbed. SO – Hugo is seeing “Jacob” – but that ‘vision’ is really MIB/Smokey telling Hugo to tell Jack to break the mirrors, not Jacob doing so.

    I do think that FLocke, and Sawyer, have seen the ‘new’ Jacob – as the blond-haired kid in the jungle.[/quote]

    That’s your theory and you’re stickin’ to it! LOL. Hey, maybe you’re right.

  308. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372228"]
    MIB/Smokey is only restricted to FLocke form when he appears “in the flesh” (aka. incarnate). That doesn’t mean that MIB/Smokey can’t appear as anything it wants to when it is an ‘apparition’ or ‘vision’ (not fleshly).

    The only “Jacob” we have seen after the stabbing by Ben — is in Hurley’s mind (a vision). No one else has seen Jacob (as Jacob) since he was stabbed. SO – Hugo is seeing “Jacob” – but that ‘vision’ is really MIB/Smokey telling Hugo to tell Jack to break the mirrors, not Jacob doing so.[/quote]

    While your theory is sound, I hope that what Hurley has seen really is Jacob. I feel like Ilana told the audience that MIB is stuck as Jacob so that we can just take that as the truth and not second-guess EVERY character. I agree that apparitions, visions, etc., don’t have to be the same, but I do think that the producers have told us that MIB is stuck as FLocke, period.

    : ) P

  309. freckles says:

    [quote comment="372193"]Flocke said to Ben that Someones gotta take over his Job….was that a lie?…or are there canidates to be Smokey as well?…puts a whole knew thought process into it…does smokey have a list? or is his plan just to corrupt everybody on jacobs list…probly just corrupt…but it would be cool to think at the end of this there are 2 people we know sitting on the beach in Jacob and Essua’s place[/quote]

    I like this line of thinking and can foresee a couple of pairs of people that would fit those roles and emotions:
    1)Jack and Sawyer (jack being the one to finally now see the need to protect the island and Sawyer losing all faith in everyone and the island, just like MIB And he wants to kill jack so badly)
    2) Ben and Sayid maybe. Ben now has a new faith in the island and Sayid is more like MIB.

    The problem I have is that Jacob was able to be “killed” by stabbing him; however, that didn’t work for Locke. How can he be eliminated?

  310. PJSander says:

    An important (IMO) quote from the most recent podcast by D&C, regarding Ilana statement that MIB is stuck as FLocke. This might clear things up:

    Carlton Cuse: I think that the critical event was Jacob’s death. The Man In Black may have had the ability to take multiple forms, but after Jacob died, I think it is a very likely explanation that he was stuck in the form that he was in when Jacob died, which happened to be John Locke… he can no longer turn into other people.

    HTH,

    : ) P

  311. Miss lost says:

    If we look at this as a game and the people are the pawns I could see how MIB was behind DI. When Jacob brought the Black Rock people to the island I am going to guess that many of these people became the others. MIB was not happy to have them there.
    Maybe the DI was MIB’s way of showing Jacob that he too could bring people to the island. He knew that this would cause the conflict that he was talking about. I don’t have a clue how he got Widmore involved, and I would love that back story of Widmore and DI even if MIB were not involved.

    I also started to think about the hospital scene between Widmore and Eloise. He said something about not having a good relationship with Penny and said something about it being one of the things he had to sacrifice. Eloise slapped him across the face and said Dont tell me about sacrifice. Now I know this was related to her relationship with Daniel, but I started thinking it could also be the fact that she was no longer on the island.
    When Widmore was banished we have no idea what happened to Eloise or where she was. Maybe she was banished before him or because of him.
    I am thinking that Widmore is not who Jacob said was coming to the island but that since Jacob is dead the island was vulnerable and easier to find. So did Eloise help him get there?
    Deep down I hope he is not on Flocke’s side. I hope he is coming back to make amends to the island and help bring down Flocke.
    Interesting that he is coming via a submarine. DI sub? It looks like he was on his way to Hydra so is this the only way off the island for Flocke?
    I do love that so many stories have so many possibilites!

  312. Miss lost says:

    The problem I have is that Jacob was able to be “killed” by stabbing him; however, that didn’t work for Locke. How can he be eliminated?[/quote]
    *************8
    I think he can also be killed by being stabbed. Remember Sayid was told to stab him before he talked…if he talked then it was already to late. Flocke spoke, so for some reason he was not able to be killed.
    I think Llana is going to know how to kill him. Also, Jacob can still communicate through Hurley so I am sure we will see him again somehow guiding them.

  313. Miss lost says:

    In the new fsw version we have seen that those who have been killed are alive and well. Couldn’t the same be true then for Jacob?

  314. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372238"]An important (IMO) quote from the most recent podcast by D&C, regarding Ilana statement that MIB is stuck as FLocke. This might clear things up:

    Carlton Cuse: I think that the critical event was Jacob’s death. The Man In Black may have had the ability to take multiple forms, but after Jacob died, I think it is a very likely explanation that he was stuck in the form that he was in when Jacob died, which happened to be John Locke… he can no longer turn into other people.

    HTH,

    : ) P[/quote]
    Thank you.

  315. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372221"][quote comment="372220"]Thanks Hammer. Good thing you’re patient :-)

    I’m trying to work out how he balances ‘I never age’ but ‘Where I’ve been? You’re not going to believe it.’

    Jack’s scars do seem obviously significant – just surprised they haven’t featured here more. Although there’s so little to go on, there’s not much to play with. Not that that normally stops us.[/quote]
    Actually, where Richard was COULD already have answered. Looking at it again…Jack asked “Where did you come from.” When he said you wouldn’t believe me, maybe he was saying that because he knew he needed them to help him die and needed the intrigue to get them to follow him. Maybe not yet meant: As soon as they realize I’m not taking them to the Temple, I’ll tell them that I was at the Temple and everyone is dead…but not until I can get their help. So in effect, he DID tell them WHERE he came from.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Also could be Rich was referring to where he originally came from, as in the whole Black Rock story. That’s something Jack might have a hard time believing. However, at this point, how could anything be unbelievable?

  316. sector7 says:

    I think the best explaination for how the Black Rock got so far inland is simply that the island “moved” and the Black Rock just happened to be right where the island moved to. We’ve known that the island is “always moving” since Eloise told us in the ep “316”. So what makes more sense? That Jacob or MIB physically put the ship in the jungle, the ship was hauling so much ass it plowed through the island to that point, or that one time when the island moved it moved right under the ship?

  317. achi says:

    has anyone talked about Lipidus being a very important player in the whol scheme of things….(MIB)black monster made a point to kill what he suspected was the pilot of the plane in the first episode…and we see throught the show of Whidmore trying atleast 3 times now to get Lipidus back to the island..does anyone have any thoughts on why he would be critical to being on the island

  318. scottcovert says:

    Many complexities are escaping me at this point, so I don’t know if this is a non-issue:

    If Widmore is approaching by submarine from outside the island radius (almost certainly true) then is he …

    1) possibly approaching from the FSW universe? woah! worlds collide! remember – it would approx 3 years after the “plane lands in LA” scenario, giving him means and time to find the island. OOPSY – the island is underwater in 2004 (in one timeline). Is it still underwater in 2007?

    or 2) is Widmore approaching, by sub, from a “the plane did NOT land safely in LA” timeline?

    Keep in mind, BOTH timelines are “the bomb DID explode” timelines – Darlton have made it clear that Juliette blew it up

    Now I’m just confusing myself

    anyway, I think the Widmore arrival may be some big “worlds coming together” event

  319. JazzMAN says:

    [quote comment="372249"]
    Now I’m just confusing myself.
    [/quote]

    apparently so – if EVERBODY on the show has two timelines???? why do you assume that Widmore only has one and is transcending between the two?

  320. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372231"][quote comment="372228"]
    MIB/Smokey is only restricted to FLocke form when he appears “in the flesh” (aka. incarnate). That doesn’t mean that MIB/Smokey can’t appear as anything it wants to when it is an ‘apparition’ or ‘vision’ (not fleshly).

    The only “Jacob” we have seen after the stabbing by Ben — is in Hurley’s mind (a vision). No one else has seen Jacob (as Jacob) since he was stabbed. SO – Hugo is seeing “Jacob” – but that ‘vision’ is really MIB/Smokey telling Hugo to tell Jack to break the mirrors, not Jacob doing so.[/quote]

    While your theory is sound, I hope that what Hurley has seen really is Jacob. I feel like Ilana told the audience that MIB is stuck as Jacob so that we can just take that as the truth and not second-guess EVERY character. I agree that apparitions, visions, etc., don’t have to be the same, but I do think that the producers have told us that MIB is stuck as FLocke, period.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Thank you! Amen

  321. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372246"][quote comment="372221"][quote comment="372220"]Thanks Hammer. Good thing you’re patient :-)

    I’m trying to work out how he balances ‘I never age’ but ‘Where I’ve been? You’re not going to believe it.’

    Jack’s scars do seem obviously significant – just surprised they haven’t featured here more. Although there’s so little to go on, there’s not much to play with. Not that that normally stops us.[/quote]
    Actually, where Richard was COULD already have answered. Looking at it again…Jack asked “Where did you come from.” When he said you wouldn’t believe me, maybe he was saying that because he knew he needed them to help him die and needed the intrigue to get them to follow him. Maybe not yet meant: As soon as they realize I’m not taking them to the Temple, I’ll tell them that I was at the Temple and everyone is dead…but not until I can get their help. So in effect, he DID tell them WHERE he came from.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Also could be Rich was referring to where he originally came from, as in the whole Black Rock story. That’s something Jack might have a hard time believing. However, at this point, how could anything be unbelievable?[/quote]

    I agree with Hammer. Richard was simply referring to the Temple and the slaughter there. Richard did not realize Hurley had an idea something like that was to happen from Jacob (who, btw, is not a MIB vision, it is Jacob d*#$-it!) He also wanted them to follow him to kill him in the Black Rock.

  322. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372228"][quote comment="372227"]
    The only thing that definitely doesn’t make sense here in these theories is that Flocke couldn’t have posed as Jacob, allowing Jack to break the mirrors, because…MIB cannot appear as anybody else except Flocke anymore. Remember, he’s trapped now as Flocke. That’s been established, I think pretty definitively.[/quote]
    MIB/Smokey is only restricted to FLocke form when he appears “in the flesh” (aka. incarnate). That doesn’t mean that MIB/Smokey can’t appear as anything it wants to when it is an ‘apparition’ or ‘vision’ (not fleshly).

    The only “Jacob” we have seen after the stabbing by Ben — is in Hurley’s mind (a vision). No one else has seen Jacob (as Jacob) since he was stabbed. SO – Hugo is seeing “Jacob” – but that ‘vision’ is really MIB/Smokey telling Hugo to tell Jack to break the mirrors, not Jacob doing so.

    I do think that FLocke, and Sawyer, have seen the ‘new’ Jacob – as the blond-haired kid in the jungle.[/quote]

    IMO the young boy was Jacob, when he was a kid. That is what caught MIB/Locke’s attention. I think Jacob appearing to Hurley is Jacob and that MIB is trapped in the form of Locke just as what was already disclosed.

  323. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372208"]Flocke is obviously not free yet or he would have just left. He is still plotting. Interesting that he tempted Ben with the power to be the new Jacob and that he left the gun. What he was really hoping was that Ben would kill Llana. It appears there are certain people he himself cannot kill. Maybe it is candidates, maybe it is those touched by Jacob, not sure who and why, but I think it why he needed Sayid to kill Dogen. He needs his team to take out each other…not sure how or why that sets him free but I am sure we will see soon enough.
    I also like the suggestion that maybe he also has to find a replacement like Jacob needs one…to keep the island in balance.[/quote]

    Flocke/MIB’s mission is to get all people on his side and/or kill the rest. This then prevents someone from taking over Jacob’s position. W/O a Jacob, MIB is able to be freed from the island.
    Remember how the 1st episode from this season ended, with Flocke very eerily saying to Ben, then he wants to go home. I believe this, as when he was with Sawyer, he said the same thing. He does not want anyone to take the “Jacob-position” of protecting the island. Because that would prevent him from leaving.
    Also, he is not looking for candidates to replace himself, that would require himself to die first, something that cannot be so easily done. And something tha the doesnt want either.
    This whole story is him, MIB, trying to figure out a way to get off this island, or stop this game Jacob and him seem to be in. That is why he hated Jacob so, because Jacob kept bringing wave after wave of people to the island to make the right choices and not fall into evil ways. When the 1st wave of people fail Jacob, he gets another wave of people to replace. This has been going on for a long long time.
    Now MIB found a loophole to kill Jacob, probably the same kind of thing that is needed to kill MIB. MIB can now get off the island but he has to prevent someone from taking over for Jacob.

    Sorry for the repetition, but I felt it necessary to unload! LOL

  324. gmtaleah says:

    point1.I think the flash sideways is a mirror image of what the lives of all concerned would have been,If 815 hadnt crashed . A mirror is not exacty what is in front of it .what you see is an opposite image.I think the moral of it is what happens happened ,no matter what path in life you take ,destiny leads you to the same people, roles maybe reverse but we all end up wher you were going anyway

    point2. What is being confused on here is trying to link certain aspects of the story ie . the flocke /jacob storyline possibly has little to do with widmore/dharma storyline.
    point3.jacob/flocke are two sides of one ,remembering locke having one black pupil and one white pupil ?with the scales that were in the cave. Cant remember which episode .
    point 4. I Thought alex and the principal were up to something , if alex thought he was a pervert then why did she go to his office alone to thank him for the recommendation ?she was very coy when she left his office .What was the point of her telling ben in the library ,youd be more likley to keep ya mouth shut until after you got the recommendation.And why would the pricipal show ben the email in the first place ?how would he connect ben to alex ?

  325. gmtaleah says:

    [quote comment="372246"][quote comment="372221"][quote comment="372220"]Thanks Hammer. Good thing you’re patient :-)

    I’m trying to work out how he balances ‘I never age’ but ‘Where I’ve been? You’re not going to believe it.’

    Jack’s scars do seem obviously significant – just surprised they haven’t featured here more. Although there’s so little to go on, there’s not much to play with. Not that that normally stops us.[/quote]
    Actually, where Richard was COULD already have answered. Looking at it again…Jack asked “Where did you come from.” When he said you wouldn’t believe me, maybe he was saying that because he knew he needed them to help him die and needed the intrigue to get them to follow him. Maybe not yet meant: As soon as they realize I’m not taking them to the Temple, I’ll tell them that I was at the Temple and everyone is dead…but not until I can get their help. So in effect, he DID tell them WHERE he came from.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Also could be Rich was referring to where he originally came from, as in the whole Black Rock story. That’s something Jack might have a hard time believing. However, at this point, how could anything be unbelievable?[/quote]
    //////////////////////////////////////
    yes richard was referring to the whole black rock story .

  326. wallyp says:

    Are all the apparitions MIB? I did think so, but now notr so much. I think we’ve seen Charlie, Libby, Eko, and Ana Lucia and I think that maybe they are apparitions of Jacob.

    As I said before (I think, if not then, I’m saying it now) the apparitions are not specifically MIB, but are the dead given power to speak, by the MIB… could work on the opposite side too. Ilana? is she dead?

    And Christian Shephard, which side was he on? I figured he was the MIB too, but maybe not… Locke took over, because he had on his shoes… (????)… It’s Lost day, I just woke up thinking Lost…. see you kids soon…

  327. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372264"]Are all the apparitions MIB? I did think so, but now notr so much. I think we’ve seen Charlie, Libby, Eko, and Ana Lucia and I think that maybe they are apparitions of Jacob.

    As I said before (I think, if not then, I’m saying it now) the apparitions are not specifically MIB, but are the dead given power to speak, by the MIB… could work on the opposite side too. Ilana? is she dead?

    And Christian Shephard, which side was he on? I figured he was the MIB too, but maybe not… Locke took over, because he had on his shoes… (????)… It’s Lost day, I just woke up thinking Lost….

    see you kids soon…[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Didn’t Hurley see all the apparitions you are referring to? Did anyone else see them? I can’t remember….I’m talking Charlie, Anna Lucia, Ecko, etc…Hurley has the ablility to see dead people, so they may not be apparitions of either Jaoob or MIB…they may just be dead and Hurley can talk to them.

  328. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372266"][quote comment="372264"]Are all the apparitions MIB? I did think so, but now notr so much. I think we’ve seen Charlie, Libby, Eko, and Ana Lucia and I think that maybe they are apparitions of Jacob.

    As I said before (I think, if not then, I’m saying it now) the apparitions are not specifically MIB, but are the dead given power to speak, by the MIB… could work on the opposite side too. Ilana? is she dead?

    And Christian Shephard, which side was he on? I figured he was the MIB too, but maybe not… Locke took over, because he had on his shoes… (????)… It’s Lost day, I just woke up thinking Lost….

    see you kids soon…[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Didn’t Hurley see all the apparitions you are referring to? Did anyone else see them? I can’t remember….I’m talking Charlie, Anna Lucia, Ecko, etc…Hurley has the ablility to see dead people, so they may not be apparitions of either Jaoob or MIB…they may just be dead and Hurley can talk to them.[/quote]

    Mainly Hurley… he didnt see Libby though, I think Jack did…? Ana Lucia told Hurley that Libby said hi, which indicates to me that they are on the same side… I’m just saying that any possibility, …all ghosts (sick of saying apparitions) may not be MIB related.

  329. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372267"][quote comment="372266"][quote comment="372264"]Are all the apparitions MIB? I did think so, but now notr so much. I think we’ve seen Charlie, Libby, Eko, and Ana Lucia and I think that maybe they are apparitions of Jacob.

    As I said before (I think, if not then, I’m saying it now) the apparitions are not specifically MIB, but are the dead given power to speak, by the MIB… could work on the opposite side too. Ilana? is she dead?

    And Christian Shephard, which side was he on? I figured he was the MIB too, but maybe not… Locke took over, because he had on his shoes… (????)… It’s Lost day, I just woke up thinking Lost….

    see you kids soon…[/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Didn’t Hurley see all the apparitions you are referring to? Did anyone else see them? I can’t remember….I’m talking Charlie, Anna Lucia, Ecko, etc…Hurley has the ablility to see dead people, so they may not be apparitions of either Jaoob or MIB…they may just be dead and Hurley can talk to them.[/quote]

    Mainly Hurley… he didnt see Libby though, I think Jack did…? Ana Lucia told Hurley that Libby said hi, which indicates to me that they are on the same side… I’m just saying that any possibility, …all ghosts (sick of saying apparitions) may not be MIB related.[/quote]
    *************

    I think the fact that charlie told him he needed to go back to the island he is on the “good” side.

  330. Miss lost says:

    Speaking of the island, I think it might be important to remember that this island is special. Locke new it when he could walk as did Rose.
    Jacob has been there protecting the island. So I know we may not exactly know WHAT the island is but we know it is special.

    Going back to something i said earlier about Flocke…he can’t just leave, the island wont let him. There are rules and only a certain few know what they are. I am thinking Llana is one of them. Someone asked if she is dead. I don’t think she is. I think she is someone Jacob has also looked after for a long time. She made it clear that she had a special relationship with Jacob…he was like a father to her.
    Jacob’s contact with her in the hospital must have been recent. She still wears the bandages around one of her arms.
    Llana has many of the answers and along with Hurley, Jacob will continue to guide them as needed.
    I don’t think Llana knows yet that Hurley can communicate with Jacob…that should be interesting when she finds that bit of info out.

  331. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372267"][quote comment="372266"][quote comment="372264"][/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Didn’t Hurley see all the apparitions you are referring to? Did anyone else see them? I can’t remember….I’m talking Charlie, Anna Lucia, Ecko, etc…Hurley has the ablility to see dead people, so they may not be apparitions of either Jaoob or MIB…they may just be dead and Hurley can talk to them.[/quote]

    Mainly Hurley… he didnt see Libby though, I think Jack did…? Ana Lucia told Hurley that Libby said hi, which indicates to me that they are on the same side… I’m just saying that any possibility, …all ghosts (sick of saying apparitions) may not be MIB related.[/quote]
    A step further. IMO some of them are whisperers who have chosen to show themselves.

    This female one wanted to talk to Sayid:

    Male Voice- “Just let him get out of here”
    Male Voice- “He’s seen too much already”
    Male Voice- “What if he tells?”
    Female Voice – “Could just speak to him”
    Male Voice- “No”

  332. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372270"][quote comment="372267"][quote comment="372266"][quote comment="372264"][/quote]
    _____________________________________
    Didn’t Hurley see all the apparitions you are referring to? Did anyone else see them? I can’t remember….I’m talking Charlie, Anna Lucia, Ecko, etc…Hurley has the ablility to see dead people, so they may not be apparitions of either Jaoob or MIB…they may just be dead and Hurley can talk to them.[/quote]

    Mainly Hurley… he didnt see Libby though, I think Jack did…? Ana Lucia told Hurley that Libby said hi, which indicates to me that they are on the same side… I’m just saying that any possibility, …all ghosts (sick of saying apparitions) may not be MIB related.[/quote]
    A step further. IMO some of them are whisperers who have chosen to show themselves.

    This female one wanted to talk to Sayid:

    Male Voice- “Just let him get out of here”
    Male Voice- “He’s seen too much already”
    Male Voice- “What if he tells?”
    Female Voice – “Could just speak to him”
    Male Voice- “No”[/quote]

    … maybe they have to be ALLOWED to show themselves…

  333. Bobola says:

    Is Jack now becoming a Man of Faith rather than a Man of Over Acting?
    I for one was hoping that Dynamite was going to go KA-Boom. Fresh Bar-B-Que! Hey Hurley, get over here—we got some fresh meat from Jack-in-the-Box!

    So now…do we get to see the Submarine and have Widmore more involved? I hope so.
    Widmore MUST have another Ship someplace nearby; that Sub appears to be so small (seems to be from the slight visual clues) and it would take forever to get anyplace…and Widmore is way too rich to stand being all cramped up in a mini sub.

    Funny personal aside;
    A few seasons ago I had a Korean gf who said Sun was UGLY…she was annoyed with my watching the show. My thought bubble said; you are nuts!
    Sun never looked so good as in this last episode. Yeah…ugly…ha. That gf is history now.

    More random free association;
    Does anyone else think of the Beatles song Obladi when Desmond is around? Dates me, I’m sure.

    I want to see what Sawyer is up to!
    That cave place was so strange.

    Spoiler alert?
    The Island is run by Scientologists and L. Ron Hubbard is holed up in one of the old Dharma Stations…sending instructions out via Polar Bears couriers to Travolta and Crusie.

  334. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372273"]Is Jack now becoming a Man of Faith rather than a Man of Over Acting?
    I for one was hoping that Dynamite was going to go KA-Boom. Fresh Bar-B-Que! Hey Hurley, get over here—we got some fresh meat from Jack-in-the-Box!

    So now…do we get to see the Submarine and have Widmore more involved? I hope so.
    Widmore MUST have another Ship someplace nearby; that Sub appears to be so small (seems to be from the slight visual clues) and it would take forever to get anyplace…and Widmore is way too rich to stand being all cramped up in a mini sub.

    Funny personal aside;
    A few seasons ago I had a Korean gf who said Sun was UGLY…she was annoyed with my watching the show. My thought bubble said; you are nuts!
    Sun never looked so good as in this last episode. Yeah…ugly…ha. That gf is history now.

    More random free association;
    Does anyone else think of the Beatles song Obladi when Desmond is around? Dates me, I’m sure.

    I want to see what Sawyer is up to!
    That cave place was so strange.

    Spoiler alert?
    The Island is run by Scientologists and L. Ron Hubbard is holed up in one of the old Dharma Stations…sending instructions out via Polar Bears couriers to Travolta and Crusie.[/quote]

    Uhhh…., And that about raps up this blog folks…, see ya tomorrow.

  335. Jiminy H. Chrismus says:

    [quote comment="372273"]
    —-Korean gf who said Sun was UGLY—-
    [/quote]
    Classic Korean reaction.

    Yunjin Kim is a world class beauty – by ‘occidental’ standards. But she is not by ‘oriental’ standards. Not Korean enough. High school in New York. University in England. They treat her like a Yankee carpetbagger traveling South of the Mason-Dixon line.

  336. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment="372267"][quote comment="372266"][quote comment="372264"]Are all the apparitions MIB? Did anyone else see them? I can’t remember….I’m talking Charlie, Anna Lucia, Ecko, etc…Hurley has the ablility to see dead people, so they may not be apparitions of either Jaoob or MIB…they may just be dead and Hurley can talk to them.[/quote]

    Mainly Hurley… he didnt see Libby though, I think Jack did…? Ana Lucia told Hurley that Libby said hi, which indicates to me that they are on the same side… I’m just saying that any possibility, …all ghosts (sick of saying apparitions) may not be MIB related.[/quote]
    Michael saw Libby in the hospital, though it may have been a dream.

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