Ab Aeterno

Lost - Richard - Season 6
Tonight represents, perhaps, the most highly anticipated single episode of Lost in a few seasons – the backstory/history of Richard Alpert. Along with Richard, I think it’s safe to say we’ll get a healthy dose of Jacob and the “Man in Black” – maybe we’ll even get a name for MIB. For those interested, the title of this episode loosely translates as “since the beginning of time” or “from a very long time ago”…

Official Episode Description

“Richard Alpert faces a difficult choice.”

Episode Preview

Sneak Peek

Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2

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236 Responses to Ab Aeterno

  1. Lind says:

    Thank you Will for getting this posted so quickly!! Hooray!

    This will definitely be a good episode. “Since the beginning of time” – looks like we’ll finally get an answer as to what the island is, or at least we will get a lot more hints!

  2. wallyp says:

    I think I heard this ep is gonna run five minutes over the hour mark…

  3. Cherry-Miss.A says:

    I cant wait tilll 2nite ive been waiting for a richard centric episode 4like 2 seasons.
    YAYY finaally

  4. ScottIsLostWithoutLost says:

    I have a feeling this is going to be one of those episodes that shows us enough unexpected information, that dozens of our pet theories will be left in the dustbin of history.

  5. Cherry-Miss.A says:

    [quote comment="372533"]I have a feeling this is going to be one of those episodes that shows us enough unexpected information, that dozens of our pet theories will be left in the dustbin of history.[/quote]
    ….
    Agreed I have the same feeling about this episode

  6. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372534"][quote comment="372533"]I have a feeling this is going to be one of those episodes that shows us enough unexpected information, that dozens of our pet theories will be left in the dustbin of history.[/quote]
    ….
    Agreed I have the same feeling about this episode[/quote]

    Yep, sort of like the Dr. Linus episode… but possibly even better!!

  7. Lind says:

    The biggest question on my mind right now is:

    will there be a Sideways Richard as well??

  8. TanziTwo says:

    i think you guys are off on this. the previews and all of the spoiler websites say – <> – i know! wow.

  9. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372531"]I think I heard this ep is gonna run five minutes over the hour mark…[/quote]
    ***********************************

    I heard the same as well. 6-9 minutes over.

  10. Jaime says:

    Things i want to see

    1. Blackrock times and who is on the ship. MIB?, Jacob?, Illana?, Magnus Hanso?

    2. How did the Blackrock come to rest where it now is on the island

    3. Richards back story…family?, slave?

    4. What exactly did Jacobs touch do to him and what was the circumstance that brought about the touch.

    5. Why is he soooo fearful of the MIB?

    6. How and why did he become an off island recruit?

    7. What happens in the Temple pool?

  11. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372540"]Things i want to see

    1. Blackrock times and who is on the ship. MIB?, Jacob?, Illana?, Magnus Hanso?

    2. How did the Blackrock come to rest where it now is on the island

    3. Richards back story…family?, slave?

    4. What exactly did Jacobs touch do to him and what was the circumstance that brought about the touch.

    5. Why is he soooo fearful of the MIB?

    6. How and why did he become an off island recruit?

    7. What happens in the Temple pool?[/quote]

    Agreed, I want to know those too! To add to this, I’m hoping that we also get an answer to “what” the island is, and I’m also hoping that, through Richard’s story, we also get backstories on Jacob and MIB.

  12. Jay says:

    I will be extremely dissapointed if all we learn tonight is:

    1. Richard was in chains on the black rock (we already think that).

    2. Lives foever (or very long) because he was toouched by Jacob (we already believe that)

    3. Does not use eyeliner

  13. Mateo says:

    Love how Richard’s photo has no “background”,… since we have no “background” info on him :)

  14. Lefty says:

    Hoping for some good answers! Our patience better pay off in this episode! Finally a Richard-centric episode.

    I wonder if we’ll find out the fear behind MIB.

    Remember when Richard said that Jacob had promised to share his plans with Richard but did not do so before he died? I wonder what Jacob’s “plans” really were…besides the whole candidates business.

  15. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372543"]Love how Richard’s photo has no “background”,… since we have no “background” info on him :)[/quote]
    ***************************************

    What an observant and perceptive thought. I like!

  16. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372543"]Love how Richard’s photo has no “background”,… since we have no “background” info on him :)[/quote]

    deep.

  17. RGS says:

    [quote comment="372546"][quote comment="372543"]Love how Richard’s photo has no “background”,… since we have no “background” info on him :)[/quote]

    deep.[/quote]
    Though I don’t believe it, one could say his background is smokey…Just sayin.

  18. Shadow says:

    I can’t wait!!!!! I love Richard!

  19. Mr. $tuart says:

    That was just sarcasm. They aren’t really dead. The Island is not Hell. Your season 1 theories are not correct. Please refrain from 1000s of post about this those opening comments.

  20. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372552"]That was just sarcasm. They aren’t really dead. The Island is not Hell. Your season 1 theories are not correct. Please refrain from 1000s of post about this those opening comments.[/quote]
    *************
    Just like lost…I’m lost?
    Who were you addressing?

  21. Mr. $tuart says:

    A rogue wave? LAME!

  22. Mr. $tuart says:

    YES! IT’S FINALLY STARTING TO COME TOGETHER! STILL A LOT OF WTF MOMENTS, BUT IT’S ACTUALLY STARTING TO COME TOGETHER.

  23. Hammer says:

    GOOD VS. EVIL!!

  24. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372552"]That was just sarcasm. They aren’t really dead. The Island is not Hell. Your season 1 theories are not correct. Please refrain from 1000s of post about this those opening comments.[/quote]

    Thank you. Yes.

    To recap: The island is NOT HELL. They are NOT all dead. That was MIB trying to trick Richard Alpert into his bidding. Jacob is NOT the DEVIL. That was MIB trying to con Alpert into killing Jacob, so that he could escape the island.

    : ) P

  25. Ben says:

    Did anyone else think that sucked?

  26. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372559"]Did anyone else think that sucked?[/quote]
    Not in the least. We got answers – TONS of answers. Nestor Carbonell proved his acting prowess. In my opinion, there was nothing remotely sucky about this episode.

    : ) P

  27. Larla says:

    [quote comment="372559"]Did anyone else think that sucked?[/quote]

    No way! I think that was the best ep of the season so far… so many answers! And, I love how they brought it back to the present/beginning of the episode with Hurley, the necklace, etc. instead of just having an episode that took place in the past.

  28. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372559"]Did anyone else think that sucked?[/quote]
    Whatever.

  29. Ben says:

    I feel like the beauty of this show was in the story telling and the mystery. These “revelations” just feel so forced.

  30. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372559"]Did anyone else think that sucked?[/quote]
    That doesn’t even deserve a reply.

  31. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372563"]I feel like the beauty of this show was in the story telling and the mystery. These “revelations” just feel so forced.[/quote]
    I understand what you mean – I felt that way when they got off the island. But given that the story teller is closing the book in a few weeks, it is probably a good idea to get some answers.

    : ) P

  32. Hammer says:

    So if the island is a cork to stop evil from escaping and destroying the world (hello Valenzetti), what does it mean that the island is sunk in FSW…is evil on the way unless the FSW gets reconciled?

  33. Lostmaniac says:

    The best episode yet. What Insights! What drama! More answers. Maybe this ends all the Sideways and brings everything back to the island. Good vs. Evil. I like the wine jug analogy. that says it all.

  34. Lostmaniac says:

    Neson Carbonell deserves an Emmy for that performance. It was thrilling to watch him delve into the depths of the character.

  35. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372568"]Neson Carbonell deserves an Emmy for that performance. It was thrilling to watch him delve into the depths of the character.[/quote]

    Agreed. And it puts to rest the “he can’t act” crap from a few weeks ago. He was PLAYING confused and frightened, after being stoic and solid for four seasons. Now we have seen the whole gamut. Kudos to Captain Eyeliner! (Yes, I KNOW he doesn’t wear eyeliner, but the nickname stands.)

    : ) P

  36. George says:

    so what happened in the last 6 min. my DVR failed to compute the added, precious moments of this all to crucial LOST ep.

  37. Random says:

    Sorry for the random comment, but this was something I was thinking about when watching the pop-up episode before tonight’s AMAZING story of ricardo.

    So, we know Claire was infected by MIB, and that he essentially got her to leave Aaron behind, separating the two of them. We also know that the psychic in Australia was adament that Claire not be separated from Aaron and that she raise him (almost as if the world depended on it). And then, in last week’s episode, we see Locke going out of his way to speak with Kate and talk about how Claire is crazy and the idea of her being reunited with Aaron would somehow lead to something bad for Aaron, the same way Smocke admits his own unhappiness in his life because of his crazy mother.

    With all that said, with MIB going out of his way to separate Claire and Aaron by infecting Claire, and then attempting to instill in Kate this idea of keeping Claire and Aaron apart, can we begin to assume that perhaps Aaron will play a more important role in keeping the island “Corked”…it seems irrelevant for the writers to include last weeks Locke/Kate discussion unless it were very imporant.

  38. Hammer says:

    Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..

  39. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372570"]so what happened in the last 6 min. my DVR failed to compute the added, precious moments of this all to crucial LOST ep.[/quote]

    Alpert returns to the site where he buried Isabella’s cross and calls out (ostensibly to FLocke) to say that he has “changed his mind” and wants to know if the offer still stands. He repeats this as the camera pans back. Then we hear tromping through the jungle and see Hurley approach Alpert. He tells Alpert that his wife sent him. Isabella wants him to know something. It is all very touching and lovely. There is a “Ghost Whisperer” scene (literally) where Hurley talks for her, yet she is standing there though Alpert can’t see her. Then there is a “Ghost” scene where they go all pottery together. Alpert then knows what needs to be done (I guess).

    *whoosh*

    Finally, we see MIB sitting on a log staring out over the valley. Jacob comes over and asks if he had Alpert try to kill him. MIB replies something along the line of, “d’uh.” MIB says he will keep trying so he can get off the island. Jacob says, go ahead, someone will replace me. MIB says he will kill the replacement. The cycle continues.

    *L O S T *

    HTH,
    : ) P

  40. Mr. $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372559"]Did anyone else think that sucked?[/quote]
    I thought it was pretty sucky in the beginning. The whole campfire scene was lame and the dialogue between Ben and Lapidus was ridiculous, the way the statue got destroyed was lame, his story in the Canary Islands took too long, Hanso served zero purpose, and the scene of him losing the nail was lame too, but once MIB appeared and Richard took a ninja @%% whoopin’ from Jacob, it started to become an absolute great episode. I liked the scene at the end with Richard and his wife, but I can see how that would make people laugh at the cheese factor.

  41. Rumblestilskin says:

    Just got home from school, and am downloading the episode.

    I’ve been waiting for the Richard episode all season.

  42. JabbaDaHut says:

    that wasn’t hugo talking to ricardus at the end. that was jacob or mib trying to trick alpert (again)

  43. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372576"]that wasn’t hugo talking to ricardus at the end. that was jacob or mib trying to trick alpert (again)[/quote]
    If it were MIB, he would have just allowed him to come to his side. Therefore, no need for it to be Jacob.

  44. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    The three years part is what I am focusing on. The three years in FSW with the island sunk = heavens shut?

    Could that be the significance of why you shouldn’t change things? Now they have to somehow reconcile the two timelines to save the world.

  45. Ben says:

    One question out of this episode….Jacob walks right into Ben’s knife accepting his death. Jacob does not get stabbed by Richard and kicks his ass. Why did he accept Ben’s knife?

  46. jaime says:

    If the BR shipwrecked at night then what ship was Jacob and MIB looking at when they were having that convo on the beach? It seemed close enough that the people/slaves wouldve seen it.

  47. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372580"]If the BR shipwrecked at night then what ship was Jacob and MIB looking at when they were having that convo on the beach? It seemed close enough that the people/slaves wouldve seen it.[/quote]
    I wonder if when it first entered the island’s radius it was sunny. Jacob and MIB have the beach convo…MIB gets bent out of shape and creates the storm…when on land he kills everyone except Richard because he did the scan thing and knows he has something he can corrupt with(apparitions of Isabella)…we saw the rest.

  48. jaime says:

    [quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail: And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country. But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote] ………………………………… Nice catch, you must have Tivo or a DVR. What do we know of St.Luke? I think that was at the top of the page

  49. Mr. $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372579"]One question out of this episode….Jacob walks right into Ben’s knife accepting his death. Jacob does not get stabbed by Richard and kicks his ass. Why did he accept Ben’s knife?[/quote]
    When Illana handed Miles Jacob’s ashes and he did his communicating with the dead deal, he said that Jacob was thinking about how he still thought Ben was good and he couldn’t believe Ben would kill him. Maybe he knows his replacement is there and ready to step up.

  50. Martin says:

    Jacob is Jacob, MIB is Esau, the Island is Egypt (hence that statute) and the world is Canaan (famined, morally speaking)

    I didn’t see exactly what the bible verse was about, but I bet it’s related.

  51. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    Luke chapter 4 tells the story of Christ starting with the temptation of Christ
    and the start of His ministry

  52. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372584"]Jacob is Jacob, MIB is Esau, the Island is Egypt (hence that statute) and the world is Canaan (famined, morally speaking)

    I didn’t see exactly what the bible verse was about, but I bet it’s related.[/quote]
    post 38 and 44

  53. jaime says:

    I am thinking that Whitfield might possibly be the first mate that kept the log in the BR journal. Now how did it get in the hands of pirates and to Madegascar? Also, why was Hanso recruiting english speaking slaves?

  54. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372585"][quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    Luke chapter 4 tells the story of Christ starting with the temptation of Christ
    and the start of His ministry[/quote]
    My wife caught this little nugget,Jacob dunked Richard 3 times in the water just like a baptism.Richard proclaims he wanted to live after the third.Richard has basically lived as the go between of Jacob and the rest of the world since.

  55. Hammer says:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    So it’s the classic theme. The god like figure wants you to do good albeit of your own free will and the devil like figure tempts you to do bad albeit your own free will.

    So MIB wants to leave the island to inhabit the world (anti-Christ like) to spread the ‘darkness’ and start the apocalypse and plans to use Aaron somehow.

  56. Murphey says:

    Is this the first instance where Smokey took the form of someone who did not die on the island?

    Also the spirits Hurley sees have so far only been people who died on the island?

    I guess it is possible that Isabella’s spirit followed Richard to the island maybe through the necklace. MIB had the necklace so maybe that is how he was able to take her form. Otherwise, the scan of Richard was enough.

  57. Amber says:

    so in order for Jacobs “expirement” to be succesful what excatly is he wanting the people he brings from the island to do?

  58. RGS says:

    I would have never guessed that the statue broke from the Black Rock crashing into it after jumping the sharks to reach the island…*deadpan*.

    Lol, I’m just kidding (sorta). I can’t complain too much about the episode. Weird that Magnus Hanso really was no big deal. I was thinking that he knew all about the island was coming back and forth to it, but it obviously was his first and only time there.

    Not quite sure why Jacob would have the ship destroy his home in bringing it there. Not even sure why it was brought there if everyone died but Alpert.

    Alpert’s acting was pretty good though and made up for his institutionalized performance a few weeks ago.

    Among other, these are things that will not be explained:
    Jacob’s touch…the source of its power
    MIB’s source of power
    Why Island moves if the only way to get there seems to be by the power of Jacob
    Why island has ability to flash through time
    Whispers (lol just messing with you Hammer) though I have no clue about that
    Why Richard seemed to scared of FLocke, when he knows he’s living forever

    These are more rhetorical questions than ones I expect answers to. I’m still in it to the end however. If you’re reading these, Thank you D&C for providing some answers though I’m not overly impressed with them. You’ve given them out of the kindness of your heart, because you easily could have thrown another FSW in there detailing Rose & Bernard, Boone, Naomi, the Captain of Widmore’s freighter, and a host of all of the myriad characters these past 6 seasons have brought us. Keep telling the story as you’ve wanted to, we all know I’m not going anywhere.

    Just please, do not have the final scene be Locke holding a Rod Serling skeleton via stick stuck in the back of the skulls head, sitting on a stone throne puppeteering the skeleton to mouth the words, “It’s the Twilight Zone.”

  59. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372590"]Is this the first instance where Smokey took the form of someone who did not die on the island?

    Also the spirits Hurley sees have so far only been people who died on the island?

    I guess it is possible that Isabella’s spirit followed Richard to the island maybe through the necklace. MIB had the necklace so maybe that is how he was able to take her form. Otherwise, the scan of Richard was enough.[/quote]
    Still debatable if Christian=MIB, but Christian died off the island.

  60. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372593"][quote comment="372590"]Is this the first instance where Smokey took the form of someone who did not die on the island?

    Also the spirits Hurley sees have so far only been people who died on the island?

    I guess it is possible that Isabella’s spirit followed Richard to the island maybe through the necklace. MIB had the necklace so maybe that is how he was able to take her form. Otherwise, the scan of Richard was enough.[/quote]
    Still debatable if Christian=MIB, but Christian died off the island.[/quote]

    Right, Christian and Locke both died off the island but their bodies came back unlike Isabella.

  61. Amber says:

    so in order for Jacobs “expirement” to be succesful what excatly is he wanting the people he brings to the island to do? not be currupted by the MIB? I get that he has to stay there to keep the MIB there. But why is he bringing people to the island? as a little game to pass there time? to prove that people can be good? MIB acting is good. I actually start to feel sad for him and just want to say damn let the poor guy off the island, however that would be bad you know bringing evil unto the whole world lol

  62. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372592"]
    Why Island moves if the only way to get there seems to be by the power of Jacob
    [/quote]
    It’s a way, not the only way. We’ve have seen many people come and go via the correct coordinates.

    BTW, funny @ whispers. :)

  63. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372590"]Is this the first instance where Smokey took the form of someone who did not die on the island?[/quote]

    Not sure if MIB/Smokey had anything to do with it, but Emily Linus died off island and appeared to young Ben.

    : ) P

  64. way too lost says:

    So the Island is basically Pandora’s Box, and if MIB gets out all hell breaks loose?

    lol at how Jacob referred to him as “a man dressed in black”

    And I think Jacob brings people to the island because he knows there is good in the world and when he finds it he can finally retire and die. Thats why the losties are always put through tests of good vs. evil on the island.

  65. Shadow says:

    What an awesome episode. I love Richard! He did an awesome job tonight. I’m was actually happy to not have any flash sideways tonight. I sometimes get the feeling that Jacob can’t be trusted. Poor Richard, I feel sorry for him, to have spent over a century in Jacob’s service only to find out that Jacob told him nothing!

  66. Shadow says:

    Interesting that MIB told Richard to kill Jacob before he speaks, or it would be too late. What’s with that? Is it that both MIB and Jacob can be very convincing? MIB was able to convince Sayid to do his bidding, after Sayid failed to kill him. Same way Jacob has convinced Richard to his bidding, after Richard failed to kill him.

  67. Matt says:

    Loved the episode… Lots of theories to spin… But I just gotta say… HEY RICHARD! USE YOUR FEET TO GRAB THE NAIL!

  68. Matt says:

    [quote comment="372595"]so in order for Jacobs “expirement” to be succesful what excatly is he wanting the people he brings to the island to do? not be currupted by the MIB? I get that he has to stay there to keep the MIB there. But why is he bringing people to the island? as a little game to pass there time? to prove that people can be good? MIB acting is good. I actually start to feel sad for him and just want to say damn let the poor guy off the island, however that would be bad you know bringing evil unto the whole world lol[/quote]

    I agree. This is why I question Jacob’s motives when it comes to the process of selection. If we are to take him at his word, then he’s essentially exposing all of mankind to horrible dreamy-eyed salt-and-pepper smoke monster… For a chance to go “Aw snap, called it!” To whomever is in charge of putting together this whole wine bottle cork island world and put Jacob in charge.

    Jacob can’t be god, can he? His flirtations with mortality don’t strike me as particularly omnipotent.

  69. jaime says:

    Is it possible even with the island cork in place that evil has found a way out here and there? The #’s were heard in a transmission from the island. They made their way to Santa Rosa (i forget the guys name who repeated them ) and to Hurley which caused that guy to go insane and Hurley to become unlucky

  70. EmilyB says:

    Anyone consider that perhaps the ‘candidates’ represent facets of the ‘Seven Deadly Sins’? For example, when you look back at each candidates’ life prior to their arrival on the island, you will find elements of those seven sins that sort of define them. Sun has committed adultery. Hurley has been gluttonous. Jack is proud. Sawyer is a masterful liar. Kate has committed murder. Perhaps these characterisics – elements of brokenness – are the reasons why Jacob has set them aside as ‘candidates’. After all, broken people are usually those who are much more eager to find validation and purpose for their broken lives. Perhaps Jacob has sought a replacement who isn’t perfect in any particular way but rather tarnished and therefore, more apt to seek redemption through service to the island. We see this play out in Ricardo’s choice to “work for” Jacob. As a murderer – who’s been convinced that he cannot be forgiven – he serves as a symbol for all the other candidates who also carry burdens they do not believe can be simply forgiven.

  71. Mateo says:

    [quote comment="372604"]Anyone consider that perhaps the ‘candidates’ represent facets of the ‘Seven Deadly Sins’? For example, when you look back at each candidates’ life prior to their arrival on the island, you will find elements of those seven sins that sort of define them. Sun has committed adultery. Hurley has been gluttonous. Jack is proud. Sawyer is a masterful liar. Kate has committed murder. Perhaps these characterisics – elements of brokenness – are the reasons why Jacob has set them aside as ‘candidates’. After all, broken people are usually those who are much more eager to find validation and purpose for their broken lives. Perhaps Jacob has sought a replacement who isn’t perfect in any particular way but rather tarnished and therefore, more apt to seek redemption through service to the island. We see this play out in Ricardo’s choice to “work for” Jacob. As a murderer – who’s been convinced that he cannot be forgiven – he serves as a symbol for all the other candidates who also carry burdens they do not believe can be simply forgiven.[/quote]

    Lovin this, thnx for all theories, the ideas these past years on this blog is as amusing as the show sometimes. Thanks to all.

    P.S. Best episode so far this season IMO

  72. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    Why did Jacob bring the Black Rock if MIB was just going to kill most of the passengers? I assume that he would bring people there to be candidates as his replacement. Do we think that Alpert was a candidate?

    I also wonder about some of the apparitions that have appeared in previous episodes. The horse to Kate, Yemi, etc. Now Yemi died and his body was on the island, so was MIB able to take it over? I think yes. The same goes for Horace Goodspeed and Goodwin’s wife, Harper.

  73. Mateo says:

    Just discovered “Totally Lost”
    If you don’t know what it is, definately check it out, they even have videos up from last year. Updated weekly I assume…
    http://www.ew.com/ew/video/0,,20313460_20313475,00.html?bcpid=45063709001&bclid=64100614001&bctid=73368385001

  74. twin field says:

    [quote comment="372578"][quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    The three years part is what I am focusing on. The three years in FSW with the island sunk = heavens shut?

    Could that be the significance of why you shouldn’t change things? Now they have to somehow reconcile the two timelines to save the world.[/quote]

    I thought the bible passage was Luke 4:37. At least, that’s what I caught on the upper right corner of the page. If so, it’s about Jesus exorcising a demon.

  75. Seajam says:

    Humor me, as I have been floating two entirely different theories since last night:
    1. I though the scene with Richard and the priest was rather telling, when the priest tells Richard he didn’t have enough TIME to absolve his sin. Combined with the dialogue in the rest of the episode, I am wondering… can the Devil be redeemed, and if yes, how much time would that take? Further throw in there Jacob’s idea of human goodness versus corruption (Original Sin?). This leads me to a sort of split in the Devil’s persona – half that wants redemption and the other that doesn’t. The half that does wants (or maybe needs) to show the other half that humanity is not corrupted by it’s very nature.
    2. On an entirely different note, putting aside all the Hell/Devil talk as metaphor, I am not yet convinced that the MIB is the wine in the bottle. He could be there for the same reason as Jacob, only he feels that the evil is already loose or that the evil will get loose no matter what, so this is really just a waste of both of their time. He can’t get off as long as Jacob is still around so he will need to circumvent the rules. MIB is as much a part of the island security system as Jacob is, he is just over the whole thing.
    Also, I wonder why MIB didn’t tell Ben to stab Jacob before he speaks? We have seen that said about both Jacob and MIB now.

  76. Bob from Oxford says:

    Something doesn’t jive after last night’s episode: Richard is the intermediary for Jacob acting on his behalf? Jacob brings people to the island to show the MIB that they can do the right thing? (And on that point, what is the point?… Everyone Jacob brought to the island, has done something for good or for bad, but either way it makes no difference to the MIB…so, why does Jacob continue this?)

    – What is the explanation for Richard (as Jacob’s intermediary) directing young Ben to commit genocide and kill everyone, including his own father, in the Dharma Initiative?

    The whole thing with Hugo being the Ghost Whisperer just seems ridiculous anymore. What is the point? Why not let the dead speak directly to the people they need to speak to?

    I’m beginning to think there was never any true direction in this show from the beginning (I know – heresy!), and now they are just trying to make some kind of stab at resolving all the weird stuff over the past 5 years and make it look like it was intentional. My explanation:

    1) In season one, no one (writers, actors etc) thought the show would make it to season two, or even to the end of season one! So the writers just threw a bunch of stuff at the characters – weird backgrounds, numbers, polar bears etc. But they put in enough “stub-outs” (blank conduits in construction left for future use) _just in case_ the show continued, never knowing what they’d use them for.
    2) In season two, the writers said, “ok there are bad guys – the OTHERS, who are responsible”…but this wasn’t really a very good explanation for all the other weird stuff, and just how the heck was everyone going to get off the island?
    3) Ok, we know we want them to get off the island in season 3, let’s drag it out some more!
    4) Season 4 – they’re off the island! But let’s milk it some more and send them back!
    5) Season 5 – now they’re back and we have _time travel_ (what was the deal with that anyway…remember Farraday’s little missle experiment?) and they want to get back off the island, or at least some do.
    6) What, it’s not about Dharma, the Others, time travel, weird family issues at all, it’s good vs. evil… immortality, keeping the devil bottled up on the island…alright I give up.

  77. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="372569"][quote comment="372568"]Neson Carbonell deserves an Emmy for that performance. It was thrilling to watch him delve into the depths of the character.[/quote]

    Agreed. And it puts to rest the “he can’t act” crap from a few weeks ago. He was PLAYING confused and frightened, after being stoic and solid for four seasons.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——-
    Well, I guess what I write is crap and what you write is GOLD even though you are distorting what I wrote.
    I NEVER write that he is a bad actor; I only complained about that one brief scene which did ring false.

    I stand by that critique.
    But try and be more accurate about my remarks when you don’t agree.
    I have no problems with his latest scenes.
    But you seem to think a good actor NEVER has a bad scene. Good luck with that fantasy. Ever see a bad Brando film?

    So, what is this episode?
    Jacob is Jesus and Smokey is El Diablo?
    I’m so tired of that Christian concept of the world.
    Christians have been killing each other for centuries in bloody wars. Don’t need a devil for evil. “Christians” will do quite nicely.

    Where/how did Illana get the beating?
    What language were she and Jacob starting their conversation in? Maybe I missed something.

    Unlike my friend; I’m still not buying into the idea yet that Jacob is good.

    Funny, the “canary Islands” look a lot like Hawaii.
    Well, not really. ( I have to complain about something.)

  78. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372612"][quote comment="372569"][quote comment="372568"]Neson Carbonell deserves an Emmy for that performance. It was thrilling to watch him delve into the depths of the character.[/quote]

    Unlike my friend; I’m still not buying into the idea yet that Jacob is good.
    [/quote]

    I’m not sure how much more clear the writers can be. MIB says to Richard, yes, I was the one who just killed all these people, and I want you to now go and kill that guy on the beach. Jacob says, you’re not dead. In fact, you can help me prove that there is good in people. (For a LONG time…)

    Seems pretty black and white (get it?) to me.

  79. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372611"]Something doesn’t jive after last night’s episode: Richard is the intermediary for Jacob acting on his behalf? Jacob brings people to the island to show the MIB that they can do the right thing? (And on that point, what is the point?… Everyone Jacob brought to the island, has done something for good or for bad, but either way it makes no difference to the MIB…so, why does Jacob continue this?)

    – What is the explanation for Richard (as Jacob’s intermediary) directing young Ben to commit genocide and kill everyone, including his own father, in the Dharma Initiative?

    [/quote]
    I think it is clear that Jacob brings people to the island to give them a chance to redeem themselves (some people that come along for the ride are collateral). After hearing Jacob talk to Richard, I don’t think Jacob approved the purge. I think he made it clear he won’t stop any of them from doing anything. It is the classic theme, God tells us how he would like for us to behave, but gives us free will. Satan tempts us and also allows free will. I said in the past that Ben fell out of favor as leader because of his choices.

  80. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372612"][quote comment="372569"][quote comment="372568"][/quote][/quote]

    So, what is this episode?
    Jacob is Jesus and Smokey is El Diablo?

    [/quote]

    I for one do not think this is true at all. Jacob is NOT Jesus, but represents the ‘good’ side of what the Bible tells us. MIB is NOT Satan, but represents the ‘bad’ side of what the bible tells us.

  81. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372609"][quote comment="372578"][quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    The three years part is what I am focusing on. The three years in FSW with the island sunk = heavens shut?

    Could that be the significance of why you shouldn’t change things? Now they have to somehow reconcile the two timelines to save the world.[/quote]

    I thought the bible passage was Luke 4:37. At least, that’s what I caught on the upper right corner of the page. If so, it’s about Jesus exorcising a demon.[/quote]
    Yes on both…but as always, I’m am reading into the actual words and trying to connect them. Assuming that the island is in fact sunk from detonating the detonator and they changed what happened, I wonder if THAT act shuts the heavens…

  82. Ming says:

    [quote comment="372604"]Anyone consider that perhaps the ‘candidates’ represent facets of the ‘Seven Deadly Sins’? For example, when you look back at each candidates’ life prior to their arrival on the island, you will find elements of those seven sins that sort of define them. Sun has committed adultery. Hurley has been gluttonous. Jack is proud. Sawyer is a masterful liar. Kate has committed murder. Perhaps these characterisics – elements of brokenness – are the reasons why Jacob has set them aside as ‘candidates’. After all, broken people are usually those who are much more eager to find validation and purpose for their broken lives. Perhaps Jacob has sought a replacement who isn’t perfect in any particular way but rather tarnished and therefore, more apt to seek redemption through service to the island. We see this play out in Ricardo’s choice to “work for” Jacob. As a murderer – who’s been convinced that he cannot be forgiven – he serves as a symbol for all the other candidates who also carry burdens they do not believe can be simply forgiven.[/quote]

    Really great theory, best for the comments in this season. :> Thanks

  83. Ming says:

    [quote comment="372604"]Anyone consider that perhaps the ‘candidates’ represent facets of the ‘Seven Deadly Sins’? For example, when you look back at each candidates’ life prior to their arrival on the island, you will find elements of those seven sins that sort of define them. Sun has committed adultery. Hurley has been gluttonous. Jack is proud. Sawyer is a masterful liar. Kate has committed murder. Perhaps these characterisics – elements of brokenness – are the reasons why Jacob has set them aside as ‘candidates’. After all, broken people are usually those who are much more eager to find validation and purpose for their broken lives. Perhaps Jacob has sought a replacement who isn’t perfect in any particular way but rather tarnished and therefore, more apt to seek redemption through service to the island. We see this play out in Ricardo’s choice to “work for” Jacob. As a murderer – who’s been convinced that he cannot be forgiven – he serves as a symbol for all the other candidates who also carry burdens they do not believe can be simply forgiven.[/quote]

    Really great theory, best of the comments in this season. :> Thanks

  84. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372606"]Why did Jacob bring the Black Rock if MIB was just going to kill most of the passengers? I assume that he would bring people there to be candidates as his replacement. Do we think that Alpert was a candidate?

    [/quote]
    I do. I think Jacob brought Richard just like our favorite losties…to get him to redeem himself. But MIB has his own free will to and saw the Black Rock coming. MIB was gonna kill everyone, but after scanning Richard saw a chance…use his dead wife to persuade him to kill Jacob. It was an early attempt at the loophole. IMO.

  85. avalanche says:

    3 years and 6 months is 42 months.

  86. victor says:

    “Interesting that MIB told Richard to kill Jacob before he speaks, or it would be too late. What’s with that? Is it that both MIB and Jacob can be very convincing? MIB was able to convince Sayid to do his bidding, after Sayid failed to kill him. Same way Jacob has convinced Richard to his bidding, after Richard failed to kill him.”
    I think the rule is literal: if Smokey or Jacob are stabbed by a stranger (i.e. someone they have never spoken too) they die. I conclude this because Sayid stabbed Flocke even though Flocke said hello and Flocke doesn’t die.
    Here’s the logic. We have 2 hypotheses: 1) a stranger can kill Jacob/Flocke or 2) both are so persuasive that they flip anyone they speak to. If #2 is correct (and therefore #1 is false), then it was impossible for Sayid to kill Flocke. And sending Sayid to Flocke would lead to Sayid getting flipped, as a conversation was inevitable if Flocke can’t be killed. So either Doyen sent Sayid to be flipped or hypothesis #1 is the correct theory. On that basis, I conclude that hypothesis #1 is more the likely answer.

  87. victor says:

    Let me clarify my comment. My point about Sayid is that Smokey was not instantly persuasive. It’s not like Smokey/Jacob can say ‘Hi old friend’ and they’re instantly hypnotically persuasive. We know that because Sayid went ahead and stabbed Flocke. If they’re not instantly persuasive, then that can’t be reason why Sayid/Richard couldn’t allow them to speak. And I don’t think it’s that they’re persuasive in the long term, because as I explained above, if Flocke/Jacob can’t be killed then it was inevitable that Sayid would talk to Flocke and be flipped.

    Hope that makes sense.

  88. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372612"][quote comment="372569"][quote comment="372568"]Neson Carbonell deserves an Emmy for that performance. It was thrilling to watch him delve into the depths of the character.[/quote]

    Agreed. And it puts to rest the “he can’t act” crap from a few weeks ago. He was PLAYING confused and frightened, after being stoic and solid for four seasons.

    : ) P[/quote]
    ——-
    Well, I guess what I write is crap and what you write is GOLD even though you are distorting what I wrote.
    I NEVER write that he is a bad actor; I only complained about that one brief scene which did ring false.

    I stand by that critique.
    But try and be more accurate about my remarks when you don’t agree.
    I have no problems with his latest scenes.
    But you seem to think a good actor NEVER has a bad scene. Good luck with that fantasy. Ever see a bad Brando film?

    quote]

    Bobola, there were a LOT of people who WERE saying that Richard Actor couldn’t act after that episode…

  89. mc says:

    The one thing that didn’t make sense to me was the last scene when MIB and Jacob are watching Richard from a distance. Is this present? I thought I saw the camera pull back to show them watching but that doesn’t make sense. How is Jacob alive again? And how did the MIB leave the body of Locke and go back to the other grey haired guy?

  90. rebls says:

    I really enjoyed last night’s episode, and like getting answers – but am still frustrated, because I feel like the last five years are being completely ignored!

    I don’t think it can be that only Jacob can bring people to the island, because crews of people were arriving for the Dharma Initiative.

    The writers may end the series with the “good vs. evil” and “Jacob vs. MIB” themes, but if this doesn’t tie in to everything else they have done, I think it’s really lame and disappointing.

  91. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372590"]Is this the first instance where Smokey took the form of someone who did not die on the island?

    Also the spirits Hurley sees have so far only been people who died on the island?

    I guess it is possible that Isabella’s spirit followed Richard to the island maybe through the necklace. MIB had the necklace so maybe that is how he was able to take her form. Otherwise, the scan of Richard was enough.[/quote]
    ***************
    I think they were trying to show us that the others we have seen have all been MIB. Maybe all he needs to do is look into their heart and soul or I do like that he had to have some sort of possesion like the necklace.

  92. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372599"]What an awesome episode. I love Richard! He did an awesome job tonight. I’m was actually happy to not have any flash sideways tonight. I sometimes get the feeling that Jacob can’t be trusted. Poor Richard, I feel sorry for him, to have spent over a century in Jacob’s service only to find out that Jacob told him nothing![/quote]
    **************
    i think Richard knows more than he has let on. I think his trust has been shattered and now he thought what was it all for…why did I serve Jacob? He then thought that if he could just die he could be reunited with Isabella. I think our “Ghost” scene at the end was for Richard to reafirm that he is a good man and that he was serving the good side and he needs to remain a man of faith.
    Richard will now lead our losties with some purpose and he does know what needs to be done to secure a new Jacob!
    I am thinking that someone will be baptized in the pool. It can heal but it can also bring about a “rebirth” of some sort for the candidate.

  93. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372625"]The one thing that didn’t make sense to me was the last scene when MIB and Jacob are watching Richard from a distance. Is this present? I thought I saw the camera pull back to show them watching but that doesn’t make sense. How is Jacob alive again? And how did the MIB leave the body of Locke and go back to the other grey haired guy?[/quote]
    ******************8
    I think we saw the scene with Richard and Hurley and in the distance we saw Flocke. I assumed that Flocke did hear Richard calling out and that he was on his way to strike the deal but Hurley intercepted and helped refocus Richard…I think Flocke now knows that he has to contend with Richard and that Richard is going to know a thing or two about stopping him.
    The end scene was not the future…it was a FB and I think it was for our benefit to see that MIB has been trying to find that loophole for a very long time.

  94. Miss lost says:

    I thought the scene between Jacob and Llana was interesting. He was definitely preparing her in case he died. She was visibly upset at the thought of this. The scene was great to see how scared she was at the prospect of Jacob being gone.
    Interesting that Jacob doesn’t seem to tell everyone everything. Richard knows somethings but not all, Llana knows some thing but not all, he speaks thru Hurley. He will need all these figures together to defeat flocke.
    Quick question, did Jacob heal her? Her face was pretty bad in the hospital scene but seemed to heal pretty fast.
    Also interesting that he was in deed wearing black gloves. Did he wear gloves because she has already been touched and as a rule you can not touch someone again?

  95. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="372628"][quote comment="372599"]What an awesome episode. I love Richard! He did an awesome job tonight. I’m was actually happy to not have any flash sideways tonight. I sometimes get the feeling that Jacob can’t be trusted. Poor Richard, I feel sorry for him, to have spent over a century in Jacob’s service only to find out that Jacob told him nothing![/quote]
    **************
    i think Richard knows more than he has let on. I think his trust has been shattered and now he thought what was it all for…why did I serve Jacob? He then thought that if he could just die he could be reunited with Isabella. I think our “Ghost” scene at the end was for Richard to reafirm that he is a good man and that he was serving the good side and he needs to remain a man of faith.
    Richard will now lead our losties with some purpose and he does know what needs to be done to secure a new Jacob!
    I am thinking that someone will be baptized in the pool. It can heal but it can also bring about a “rebirth” of some sort for the candidate.[/quote]

    I would love for Richard to be the one to lead our good losties in the right direction. He definitely is disillusioned and like you said, hopefully the ghost scene is enough to steer him back in the right direction. Although at this point I don’t know which side is the right side. Sure, Jacob pretty much laid it all out for us last night, as far as bringing people to the island to prove that they are inherently good and that MIB has to remain trapped, but don’t you think that Jacob may have ulterior motives of which we are not yet aware?

  96. Els says:

    [quote comment="372601"]Loved the episode… Lots of theories to spin… But I just gotta say… HEY RICHARD! USE YOUR FEET TO GRAB THE NAIL![/quote]

    I think his feet were chained up as well…

  97. Lar says:

    Here’s a long shot theory I saw over at The Onion AV Club Lost discussion – Isabella tells Richard to give her cross to the doctor. Later Isabella, through Hurley, askes him why he burried it, and Richard has it at the end of the episode. Is Jack the doctor he’s supposed to give it to? I have no idea why a cross necklace would be of any importance to Jack, but it’s an interesting thought.

  98. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372632"][quote comment="372601"]Loved the episode… Lots of theories to spin… But I just gotta say… HEY RICHARD! USE YOUR FEET TO GRAB THE NAIL![/quote]

    I think his feet were chained up as well…[/quote]

    They weren’t. I thought the same thing as Matt. Then I thought the same thing as you. Then, later on, they showed him on the ground with his feet clearly untethered. So, Matt, I hear ya.

  99. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372634"][quote comment="372632"][quote comment="372601"]Loved the episode… Lots of theories to spin… But I just gotta say… HEY RICHARD! USE YOUR FEET TO GRAB THE NAIL![/quote]

    I think his feet were chained up as well…[/quote]

    They weren’t. I thought the same thing as Matt. Then I thought the same thing as you. Then, later on, they showed him on the ground with his feet clearly untethered. So, Matt, I hear ya.[/quote]

    I followed the same thought process. Perhaps by then he was so dehydrated and tired he forgot that he might be able to reach it with his legs.

    Minutiae, though! The REAL issue is, the island must have a great barber, because he cleaned up well through the years.

  100. Mr. $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372633"]Here’s a long shot theory I saw over at The Onion AV Club Lost discussion – Isabella tells Richard to give her cross to the doctor. Later Isabella, through Hurley, askes him why he burried it, and Richard has it at the end of the episode. Is Jack the doctor he’s supposed to give it to? I have no idea why a cross necklace would be of any importance to Jack, but it’s an interesting thought.[/quote]
    Doubtful. When Jack came over to see who Hurley was talking to, Hurley told him to go away that this had nothing to do with him.

  101. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372621"]“Interesting that MIB told Richard to kill Jacob before he speaks, or it would be too late. What’s with that? Is it that both MIB and Jacob can be very convincing? MIB was able to convince Sayid to do his bidding, after Sayid failed to kill him. Same way Jacob has convinced Richard to his bidding, after Richard failed to kill him.”
    I think the rule is literal: if Smokey or Jacob are stabbed by a stranger (i.e. someone they have never spoken too) they die. I conclude this because Sayid stabbed Flocke even though Flocke said hello and Flocke doesn’t die.
    .[/quote]

    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.

  102. Miraks says:

    In the hospital Jacob tells Ilana that he will give her a list of six names, and that THOSE are the remaining six candidates that need to come back to the island. I take it that that answers the uestion of whether Sun or Jin is a candidate.
    So the six remaining are Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sun, Sayid, and Locke?

  103. victor says:

    “[quote comment="372637"][quote comment="372621"]“Interesting that MIB told Richard to kill Jacob before he speaks, or it would be too late. What’s with that? Is it that both MIB and Jacob can be very convincing? MIB was able to convince Sayid to do his bidding, after Sayid failed to kill him. Same way Jacob has convinced Richard to his bidding, after Richard failed to kill him.”
    I think the rule is literal: if Smokey or Jacob are stabbed by a stranger (i.e. someone they have never spoken too) they die. I conclude this because Sayid stabbed Flocke even though Flocke said hello and Flocke doesn’t die.
    .[/quote]

    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.[/quote]
    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.”

    excellent point! Does anyone remember if Jacob addressed Ben whatsover … or was he totally silent?

  104. Ben's Twin says:

    If you can only kill Jacob and MIB if you stab them before they speak, then why did Jacob die after he spoke to Ben? Why didn’t Flocke tell Ben to stab Jacob before he speaks?

    If you buy into the “can’t kill them if they speak rule”, then the only candidates left who have the ability to kill Flocke would be Jack and Hurley. Neither one of them have spoken to Flocke yet. Jack even pointed that out in by the camp fire.

  105. victor says:

    [quote comment="372639"]
    excellent point! Does anyone remember if Jacob addressed Ben whatsover … or was he totally silent?[/quote]

    disregard that. just rewatched the scene and Jacob / Ben had a long discussion.

  106. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372639"]“[quote comment="372637"][quote comment="372621"][/quote]

    [/quote]
    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.”

    excellent point! Does anyone remember if Jacob addressed Ben whatsover … or was he totally silent?[/quote]
    JACOB: Benjamin… whatever he’s told you, I want you to understand one thing. You have a choice.

    BEN: What “choice”?

    JACOB: You can do what he asked, or you can go, leave us to discuss our… issues.
    BEN: Oh… so now, after all this time, you’ve decided to stop ignoring me. Thirty-five years I lived on this island, and all I ever heard was your name over and over. Richard would bring me your instructions–all those slips of paper, all those lists–and I never questioned anything. I did as I was told. But when I dared to ask to see you myself, I was told, “You have to wait. You have to be patient.” But when he asked to see you? He gets marched straight up here as if was Moses. So… why him? Hmm? What was it that was so wrong with me? What about me?!

    JACOB: What about you?

  107. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372639"]“[quote comment="372637"][quote comment="372621"]“Interesting that MIB told Richard to kill Jacob before he speaks, or it would be too late. What’s with that? Is it that both MIB and Jacob can be very convincing? MIB was able to convince Sayid to do his bidding, after Sayid failed to kill him. Same way Jacob has convinced Richard to his bidding, after Richard failed to kill him.”
    I think the rule is literal: if Smokey or Jacob are stabbed by a stranger (i.e. someone they have never spoken too) they die. I conclude this because Sayid stabbed Flocke even though Flocke said hello and Flocke doesn’t die.
    .[/quote]

    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.[/quote]
    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.”

    excellent point! Does anyone remember if Jacob addressed Ben whatsover … or was he totally silent?[/quote]
    ****************
    Jacob did talk…when Ben asked, “what about me?” and Jacob replied, “what about you?”

  108. victor says:

    [quote comment="372640"]If you can only kill Jacob and MIB if you stab them before they speak, then why did Jacob die after he spoke to Ben? Why didn’t Flocke tell Ben to stab Jacob before he speaks?

    If you buy into the “can’t kill them if they speak rule”, then the only candidates left who have the ability to kill Flocke would be Jack and Hurley. Neither one of them have spoken to Flocke yet. Jack even pointed that out in by the camp fire.[/quote]

    I’m not giving up on the “can’t kill them if they speak rule” yet. It may apply only to Smokey. I’m slightly more inclined to consider it a possibility in light of Jack and Hurley referencing it at the campfire (i.e. potential foreshadowing).

    It may all come down to Sayid needing to turn back to good (as he’s the only one who can put 2 + 2 together) and alerting Jack to Smokey’s achiles heel, as Jack & Hurley are the only remaining options.

  109. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372639"]“[quote comment="372637"][quote comment="372621"]“Interesting that MIB told Richard to kill Jacob before he speaks, or it would be too late. What’s with that? Is it that both MIB and Jacob can be very convincing? MIB was able to convince Sayid to do his bidding, after Sayid failed to kill him. Same way Jacob has convinced Richard to his bidding, after Richard failed to kill him.”
    I think the rule is literal: if Smokey or Jacob are stabbed by a stranger (i.e. someone they have never spoken too) they die. I conclude this because Sayid stabbed Flocke even though Flocke said hello and Flocke doesn’t die.
    .[/quote]

    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.[/quote]
    That would explain why MIB asked Ben to go and kill Jacob, since in all his years Ben has never talked directly to Jacob.”

    excellent point! Does anyone remember if Jacob addressed Ben whatsover … or was he totally silent?[/quote]

    Yeah, he did, but maybe it had something to do with them being inside the statue- Jacob’s home. Remember last night Jacob implied to Richard that the inside of his home was special somehow.

  110. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372640"]If you can only kill Jacob and MIB if you stab them before they speak, then why did Jacob die after he spoke to Ben? Why didn’t Flocke tell Ben to stab Jacob before he speaks?

    If you buy into the “can’t kill them if they speak rule”, then the only candidates left who have the ability to kill Flocke would be Jack and Hurley. Neither one of them have spoken to Flocke yet. Jack even pointed that out in by the camp fire.[/quote]
    It seems clear to me that it isn’t a rule. Free will is the rule and free will can be changed with discussion.

  111. Enik says:

    The term “man in black” is used for the first time in this episode.

    It’s interesting how the writers ultimately commit to Lost nomenclature as originally coined in the blogosphere.

    I always hated the use of “the hatch” to mean anything other than a door. And the “man in black” seems to be another term taken directly from the blogs–I think.

    When the smoke monster first took the form of Locke in this final season, Darton explained on the talk show circuit (and on the official podcast) that “Flocke” and other strange nicknames would not be used to refer to this character. They were most likely too many episodes into the production by the time the first showed aired to start mucking with that name.

    But they–Darton and the writers–are out there. Amongst us. Reading. Listening. They are not creating this story in a vacuum.

    Thank goodness, though, they haven’t used any of the names devised by the folks on this particular blog. There have been some weird ones.

    Now maybe this should be a separate thread.

  112. Pterradon says:

    So Jacob believes in free will, but will force ships to his shore and beats up Richard instead of talking to him. And he protects humanity by keeping the darkness bottled up on the island, yet pulls the ship in and does nothing to protect the people on the ship from certain murder by smokie. His goodness is a little confusing.

  113. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372647"]The term “man in black” is used for the first time in this episode.

    It’s interesting how the writers ultimately commit to Lost nomenclature as originally coined in the blogosphere.

    I always hated the use of “the hatch” to mean anything other than a door. And the “man in black” seems to be another term taken directly from the blogs–I think.
    ….

    Thank goodness, though, they haven’t used any of the names devised by the folks on this particular blog. There have been some weird ones.

    Now maybe this should be a separate thread.[/quote]
    I don’t remember that term being used. I remember Jacob asking if Richard saw a “man dressed in black”. So they didn’t use a blog term and more over, I think the casting credits called him the man in black. It’s their term I believe.

  114. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372581"][quote comment="372580"]If the BR shipwrecked at night then what ship was Jacob and MIB looking at when they were having that convo on the beach? It seemed close enough that the people/slaves wouldve seen it.[/quote]
    I wonder if when it first entered the island’s radius it was sunny. Jacob and MIB have the beach convo…MIB gets bent out of shape and creates the storm…when on land he kills everyone except Richard because he did the scan thing and knows he has something he can corrupt with(apparitions of Isabella)…we saw the rest.[/quote]
    ********************************************

    YES! Absolutely. The BR, Desmonds helicopter and the Ajira flight all went through some sort of time/day/night changes when crossing passing through the radius.

  115. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372603"]Is it possible even with the island cork in place that evil has found a way out here and there? The #’s were heard in a transmission from the island. They made their way to Santa Rosa (i forget the guys name who repeated them ) and to Hurley which caused that guy to go insane and Hurley to become unlucky[/quote]
    ********************************

    I wrote this down last night before bed and have been thinking about it all morning. What do you think? Are there other examples?

  116. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372635"][quote comment="372634"][quote comment="372632"][quote comment="372601"]Loved the episode… Lots of theories to spin… But I just gotta say… HEY RICHARD! USE YOUR FEET TO GRAB THE NAIL![/quote]

    I think his feet were chained up as well…[/quote]

    They weren’t. I thought the same thing as Matt. Then I thought the same thing as you. Then, later on, they showed him on the ground with his feet clearly untethered. So, Matt, I hear ya.[/quote]

    I followed the same thought process. Perhaps by then he was so dehydrated and tired he forgot that he might be able to reach it with his legs.

    Minutiae, though! The REAL issue is, the island must have a great barber, because he cleaned up well through the years.[/quote]

    I’ll say! And he kept up with current styles too, impressive!

  117. wallyp says:

    This was one of those eps that made me forget about the questions entirely. I felt going in that this episode was basically ONLY to show Richards backstory, and after watching it, I’d say this episode could stand well on its own without the rest of the story. Very well done…

    That being said, there a few things that popped out as maybe being important to the overall story (I think that the whole Good vs. Evil is really just another piece and not the “whole” of the story)…

    1. Jacob seemed to be a loner, known only to MIB before Richard was sent to kill him. Richard was the first person on the island Jacob ever actually spoke with (though he brought in lots before him), and for a long time the only one.

    2. Jacob has been on the island for a long LONG time, and his entire social experiment is a means of holding down the MIB. He cant tell people what to do (or just wont, but I think its more about “cant”) but he is the mastermind behind holding the MIB down.

    3. The island moved, would that be a symbol of releasing the cork? Maybe the island should never move, but is able, MIB has been head scheming his own operation for years and years too— I’m thinking he built the donkey wheel.

    4. The game changes with time. MIB had his own way of doing things, till Jacob came along. Jacob had his own way of doing things until Richard came along…

    5. Richard broke down. I’d guess 150 plus years of never aging can take its toll, especially if you realize that 150 years is really just a drop in the bucket compared to Forever. That scene with his wife was my favorite, the part where his wife “whispered” into his ear for the first time since 1860, really was all he needed to get back on track… I think overall this is the most important aspect to the episode. Richard chose to live forever, so as to never have to go to Hell. I’d say that I think Jacob and the MIB both made that similar decision way waaay back at the beginning of time or (how you say?) “Ab Aterno”

  118. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372652"][quote comment="372635"][quote comment="372634"][quote comment="372632"][quote comment="372601"]

    Minutiae, though! The REAL issue is, the island must have a great barber, because he cleaned up well through the years.[/quote]

    I’ll say! And he kept up with current styles too, impressive![/quote]
    ****************

    I always thought Richard and the others “keeping up with current styles” was an attempt to show us how they have changed and adapted with the people who have came to the island.
    After the military was on the island, Richard and a few of the others took over their camp. Same with the DI. After the purge they were living in their houses and I would assume wearing some of their clothes.

    I did however think it was interesting that many at the temple still looked very rustic…and even Cyndi and the children appeared to have adopted that style as well.

  119. Miraks says:

    So going back to the remaining six candidates- Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun (still in?) and Sayid and Locke (out?).

    Were there 360 possible candidates (degrees on the dial) to start with? Have 354 (356) already failed? What happens when all 360 possibilities have been exhausted without finding a winner (a “new” Jacob)? Does MIB win?

  120. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372606"]
    I also wonder about some of the apparitions that have appeared in previous episodes. The horse to Kate, Yemi, etc. Now Yemi died and his body was on the island, so was MIB able to take it over? I think yes. The same goes for Horace Goodspeed and Goodwin’s wife, Harper.[/quote]
    **************************************

    IMO It seems that the MIB is a “shape shifter” based off of people memories. Before we only saw MIB take on the bodies of dead people on the island except mamybe the drug dealers that appeard to Eko. Now we’ve seen that he can scan for memories and use that to manifest into poeple from their past. Does that make sense?

  121. Pterradon says:

    It just occurred to me that when that group of Losties were bouncing through time, that at one point they saw the statue that the Black Rock crashed into. That means they time traveled to at least the 1860’s.

  122. MILK says:

    If Richard saw Isabel’s ghost in 1867, why couldn’t he in 2007.

  123. victor says:

    [quote comment="372645"]
    Yeah, he did, but maybe it had something to do with them being inside the statue- Jacob’s home. Remember last night Jacob implied to Richard that the inside of his home was special somehow.[/quote]

    Thanks for suggesting that. And Jacob also had rules about who was allowed to enter, so maybe he is vulnerable in his house. Not crazy.

  124. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372658"]If Richard saw Isabel’s ghost in 1867, why couldn’t he in 2007.[/quote]
    **************
    Was not his wife’s ghost he saw in 1867, it was MIB.

  125. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372612"]
    Well, I guess what I write is crap and what you write is GOLD even though you are distorting what I wrote.
    I NEVER write that he is a bad actor; I only complained about that one brief scene which did ring false.[/quote]

    Bobola,

    I don’t search through the archives looking for your posts to argue, I promise. A number of people said they thought that Nestor Carbonell’s acting was cardboard. I argued that it was a character choice, not the actor. To me, this week’s performance bolsters that opinion and I responded accordingly.

    I am sorry if you thought it was somehow an attack on you personally. It was not.

    : ) P

  126. Miraks says:

    Lynyrd Skynyrd- Devil in the Bottle lyrics

    Well, there’s a devil in the bottle, staring straight at me
    Daring me to reach out, but I know he’s testing me
    If I take just one sip, I become that devil’s son
    Act a fool, sell my soul before God and everyone
    Oh Lord, I know, I only hurt the ones I love

    I’m walkin’ down this dead end road, all alone and by myself
    Wish I could blame the whiskey, but I can only blame myself
    Running out of chances, and Lord that’s such a crime
    I got to find the answer before I lose my mind
    Oh Lord its a cryin shame, oh Lord I’ve caused so much pain
    I only hurt the ones I love

    There’s a devil in a bottle that just won’t let me be
    So many times I’ve been hurtin’ my soul and family
    But I got free on the day I fought the
    Devil in the bottle

    The next time that ol’ devil tries to get the best of me
    I’ll smash that bottle against the wall and know I’m finally free
    There’s a devil in a bottle that just won’t let me be
    There’s so many times I let him hurt me
    I got free the day I fought the
    Devil in the bottle
    Devil in the bottle
    Devil in the bottle

    So- was MIB smashing the bottle in the end foreshadowing? Is the plan to not simply try to escape the island, but to “smash” (maybe sink?) it?

  127. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372636"][quote comment="372633"]Here’s a long shot theory I saw over at The Onion AV Club Lost discussion – Isabella tells Richard to give her cross to the doctor. Later Isabella, through Hurley, askes him why he burried it, and Richard has it at the end of the episode. Is Jack the doctor he’s supposed to give it to? I have no idea why a cross necklace would be of any importance to Jack, but it’s an interesting thought.[/quote]
    Doubtful. When Jack came over to see who Hurley was talking to, Hurley told him to go away that this had nothing to do with him.[/quote]

    I like Lar’s idea and I am not sure the two are mutually exclusive. According to Hurley, the ghost of Isabella saw Alpert digging up the necklace and asked why he had buried it. When we first saw Hurley speaking Spanish (to what looked like nothing), Isabella didn’t necessarily know where the necklace was at that time. I think Hurley’s comment to Jack was more about “I’m fine, dude, leave me to my work,” than anything.

    : ) P

  128. Jen says:

    I miss the confident, strong, & solid Richard (who I looked forward to seeing) when the MIB knocked him out & tied him up from that point he became this unknowing, scared, unfamiliar character.

    Of all the possibilities to knock down the statue, a rock solid statue a wooden ship
    (a well made wooden ship) knocks into it & it comes crumbling down? Besides the ship being damaged & in the middle of the island is mostly intact? I was hoping for so much more!

    During the time traveling, our losties looked up at one brief point to see the statue standing in all its glory. The great moment where we got to see the back of it for a few seconds. That means our losties time traveled to sometime before the Black Rock hit in 1867!

    When Isabella appeared to Richard on the Black Rock we (my family) assumed at first it was smokey in her image. But while they were together smokey was stirring & making noises on the deck above. Richard wanted her to leave so she would not be harmed by it. But we are led to believe by the noises we heard that she was killed by smokey. So can smokey be in two places at one time as two images? Or was that really Isabella? Maybe Richard was dreaming her up? Can Jacob take another form?

  129. freckles says:

    [quote comment="372659"][quote comment="372645"]
    Yeah, he did, but maybe it had something to do with them being inside the statue- Jacob’s home. Remember last night Jacob implied to Richard that the inside of his home was special somehow.[/quote]

    Thanks for suggesting that. And Jacob also had rules about who was allowed to enter, so maybe he is vulnerable in his house. Not crazy.[/quote]

    Jacob also told Richard that one has to be invited into his house. that’s why he didn’t allow Richard in; however, he did allow Flocke and Ben to come in. I think he wanted Ben to kill him. He still has plans for him somehow. I think he can replace Richard. After all, Ben is with llana now.

  130. freckles says:

    [quote comment="372627"][quote comment="372590"]Is this the first instance where Smokey took the form of someone who did not die on the island?

    Also the spirits Hurley sees have so far only been people who died on the island?

    I guess it is possible that Isabella’s spirit followed Richard to the island maybe through the necklace. MIB had the necklace so maybe that is how he was able to take her form. Otherwise, the scan of Richard was enough.[/quote]
    ***************
    I think they were trying to show us that the others we have seen have all been MIB. Maybe all he needs to do is look into their heart and soul or I do like that he had to have some sort of possesion like the necklace.[/quote]

    I think there is something to the possessions. I think MIB needs them to change form. he said he found the necklace on the ship, then turned into Isabella. I believe Yeme had a cross necklace too and he turned into him. This would explain the deal with the shoes of Christian that Jack put on Locke’s body. Somehow I think it has to do with his loop hole. He took over Locke’s body before he was killed, because he knew what Locke was thinking when he died. I think he was going to use Yeme to talk Eko into killing Jacob, but then Eko said that he wasn’t sorry. He then knew that he couldn’t use Eko and revealed that he wasn’t even Yeme at all.

  131. Tara says:

    Keep in mind when we refer to Jacob as being good or god like he instructed Bed to kill all of D.I.

    T

    [quote comment="372602"][quote comment="372595"]so in order for Jacobs “expirement” to be succesful what excatly is he wanting the people he brings to the island to do? not be currupted by the MIB? I get that he has to stay there to keep the MIB there. But why is he bringing people to the island? as a little game to pass there time? to prove that people can be good? MIB acting is good. I actually start to feel sad for him and just want to say damn let the poor guy off the island, however that would be bad you know bringing evil unto the whole world lol[/quote]

    I agree. This is why I question Jacob’s motives when it comes to the process of selection. If we are to take him at his word, then he’s essentially exposing all of mankind to horrible dreamy-eyed salt-and-pepper smoke monster… For a chance to go “Aw snap, called it!” To whomever is in charge of putting together this whole wine bottle cork island world and put Jacob in charge.

    Jacob can’t be god, can he? His flirtations with mortality don’t strike me as particularly omnipotent.[/quote]

  132. Hammer says:

    Tara, I don’t remember Jacob instructing Ben to do the purge. But this is why it happened:

    According to the Richard Alpert’s addendums to the original Truce from August 1973 between him and Horace Goodspeed, the DHARMA Initiative was not allowed to
    enter or violate any ruins on the island, dig or drill any more than ten meters into the ground, even in their designated territory, exceed a maximum population of D.I. members of 216 at any one time on the island or stay longer than fifteen years.

    At the end of this term all facilities and personnel are to leave the island.

    However, the DHARMA Initiative conducted digs under the houses of the barracks, performed drills at the Orchid and Swan Station and hadn’t left the island by August 1988 in addition of developing counter-measures against “the hostiles”.

  133. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372667"]Keep in mind when we refer to Jacob as being good or god like he instructed Bed to kill all of D.I.[/quote]

    We do NOT know that Jacob instructed Ben to do the purge. In fact, to my knowledge, Ben has never specified the origination of the idea.

    First Ben told Jack (Through the Looking Glass)
    BEN: Not so long ago, Jack. I made a decision, that took the lives of over forty people in a single day. I’m telling you this because, history is about to repeat itself, right here, right now.

    Then Ben told Hurley (Cabin Fever)
    HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn’t wipe out the DHARMA Initiative–
    BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn’t my decision.
    HURLEY: Then whose was it?
    BEN: Their leader’s.
    HURLEY:But I thought you were their leader.
    BEN: Not always.

    HTH,
    : ) P

  134. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372669"][quote comment="372667"]Keep in mind when we refer to Jacob as being good or god like he instructed Bed to kill all of D.I.[/quote]

    We do NOT know that Jacob instructed Ben to do the purge. In fact, to my knowledge, Ben has never specified the origination of the idea.

    First Ben told Jack (Through the Looking Glass)
    BEN: Not so long ago, Jack. I made a decision, that took the lives of over forty people in a single day. I’m telling you this because, history is about to repeat itself, right here, right now.

    Then Ben told Hurley (Cabin Fever)
    HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn’t wipe out the DHARMA Initiative–
    BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn’t my decision.
    HURLEY: Then whose was it?
    BEN: Their leader’s.
    HURLEY:But I thought you were their leader.
    BEN: Not always.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]
    To fuzzy it up some more…I think Widmore was the leader at the time.

  135. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="372669"][quote comment="372667"]Keep in mind when we refer to Jacob as being good or god like he instructed Bed to kill all of D.I.[/quote]

    We do NOT know that Jacob instructed Ben to do the purge. In fact, to my knowledge, Ben has never specified the origination of the idea.

    First Ben told Jack (Through the Looking Glass)
    BEN: Not so long ago, Jack. I made a decision, that took the lives of over forty people in a single day. I’m telling you this because, history is about to repeat itself, right here, right now.

    Then Ben told Hurley (Cabin Fever)
    HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn’t wipe out the DHARMA Initiative–
    BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn’t my decision.
    HURLEY: Then whose was it?
    BEN: Their leader’s.
    HURLEY:But I thought you were their leader.
    BEN: Not always.

    HTH,
    : ) P[/quote]

    Since Ben admitted to not having any sort of relationship with Jacob (before plunging the knife into him) – IMO, he was inferring what Jacob wanted him to do – or simply using Jacob as an excuse to further his own agenda. Or, since we have evidence of MIB manipulating him and other people, it’s possible Ben thought he was listening to Jacob, but was not.
    OR, it’s possible that Charles Widmore had Ben do the deed…after all…he wanted Ben to kill Alex.

  136. MILK says:

    [quote comment="372660"][quote comment="372658"]If Richard saw Isabel’s ghost in 1867, why couldn’t he in 2007.[/quote]
    **************
    Was not his wife’s ghost he saw in 1867, it was MIB.[/quote]
    Are we so sure it was MIB. We have never seen MIB in a body and the noise of the smoke monster at the same time like that instance. And whenever MIB is in a body it is to give a message or has strength, Alex throwing Ben into a wall. Ghost Isabel 1867 could not break the change and really didn’t give Richard any direction. I don’t think it was MIB.

  137. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372655"]So going back to the remaining six candidates- Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun (still in?) and Sayid and Locke (out?).

    Were there 360 possible candidates (degrees on the dial) to start with? Have 354 (356) already failed? What happens when all 360 possibilities have been exhausted without finding a winner (a “new” Jacob)? Does MIB win?[/quote]

    Not if Richard kills him….

  138. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372672"][quote comment="372660"][quote comment="372658"]If Richard saw Isabel’s ghost in 1867, why couldn’t he in 2007.[/quote]
    **************
    Was not his wife’s ghost he saw in 1867, it was MIB.[/quote]
    Are we so sure it was MIB. We have never seen MIB in a body and the noise of the smoke monster at the same time like that instance. And whenever MIB is in a body it is to give a message or has strength, Alex throwing Ben into a wall. Ghost Isabel 1867 could not break the change and really didn’t give Richard any direction. I don’t think it was MIB.[/quote]

    There was some strangeness to this to me too. She says something like “I looked into the smokes eyes and all I saw was evil…” I dont think that MIB would say such a thing about himself…

  139. The Kath says:

    I think there are certain rules put into place the the MIB and Jacob have to go by. Things like:

    I (Jacob) get to bring people here (like on a ship, plane) and you get your choice of who stays (lives) and I’ll work with whoever gets left over to prove my point.

    Jacob gets dibs on the choice of who to bring to the island and MIB gets dibs on who stays. And they each have screening factors. Jacob gets to leave the island and search for people, MIB gets to “scan” them as his smokey self.

    I’m sure there are other rules but I can’t think of way to coherently put them into words right now.

    I would love to hear some ideas on why Ben was able to summon Smokie from his basement when Keemie and the freighties were coming to attack. MIB doesn’t seem like a pawn piece that would allow Ben to summon him.

    I also think Jack is going to be the candidate to replace Jacob. From the beginning him and Locke have been pitted against each other…man of science vs. man of faith…groups splitting off and the Losties having to choose etc. And Jack even though he’s a science guy is still a really good guy. It doesn’t hinge on him having faith. Now that the MIB is Flocke is seems kinda natural that we’d finally get our “showdown” of Jack vs. Locke just because they represent the old duality.

  140. MILK says:

    [quote comment="372675"]I think there are certain rules put into place the the MIB and Jacob have to go by. Things like:

    I (Jacob) get to bring people here (like on a ship, plane) and you get your choice of who stays (lives) and I’ll work with whoever gets left over to prove my point.

    Jacob gets dibs on the choice of who to bring to the island and MIB gets dibs on who stays. And they each have screening factors. Jacob gets to leave the island and search for people, MIB gets to “scan” them as his smokey self.

    I’m sure there are other rules but I can’t think of way to coherently put them into words right now.

    I would love to hear some ideas on why Ben was able to summon Smokie from his basement when Keemie and the freighties were coming to attack. MIB doesn’t seem like a pawn piece that would allow Ben to summon him.

    I also think Jack is going to be the candidate to replace Jacob. From the beginning him and Locke have been pitted against each other…man of science vs. man of faith…groups splitting off and the Losties having to choose etc. And Jack even though he’s a science guy is still a really good guy. It doesn’t hinge on him having faith. Now that the MIB is Flocke is seems kinda natural that we’d finally get our “showdown” of Jack vs. Locke just because they represent the old duality.[/quote]
    I also think Jackob vs Flocke is going to be the climax.

    About Ben calling the monster, it does seem very unmonster to be controlled. If he wanted to kill the small army he could have done so at anytime. And how is there a switch to do that in an area so protected from the monster. Only thing I can throw out there, and even I don’t think this is right, but we all think Jacob and MIB are related so maybe Jacob can be a smoke monster too and that is the one Ben called. Like I said, even I think that is a real stretch.

  141. victor says:

    I don’t think Smokey is EVIL. I think Smokey is simply a non-believer. Smokey has said multiple times that the island will keep going without him, that the island doesn’t need to be protected. Smokey reminds me of Desmond, stuck pressing a button every 108 minutes. Except Smokey has decided he’s no longer pressing the button.

    I also re-watched the scene where Ben kills Jacob. The last thing that Jacob says is ‘they’re coming’. Jacob’s body language and tone convey the sense that Smokey should be concerned about this. Smokey clearly doesn’t care.

    I could envision an ending where the rationale for Smokey staying on the island is because Smokey is necessary for the island to function as a ‘cork’. However, Smokey doesn’t believe there is a ‘cork’ function and has therefore decided to leave and Jacob is forcing him to stay.

  142. Quatre says:

    I love how the show purposely psychs you out at times.. Like when the mysterious person in a trench coat and black gloves is approaching an injured Ilana in the hospital, some thinking that it might be Widmore, only to have the camera pan up to reveal… Jacob. Or similarily on the Black Rock, when an unknown person’s hand is placed on a starving, dying slave to bring him around, [totally Jacob, right?] which is then revealed as the MIB’s hand.

    I believe that the writers may be alluding to the possibility that Jacob and MIB have the same powers/abilities as a form of balance. So that begs the question, does Jacob maybe appear in the form of lost loved ones? IE – Isabella? Christian? Yes, Jacob mentioned he would not directly interfere with someones decision making on the island, but maybe appearing as a lost loved one is a slight loophole for him to influence candidates?

    I enjoy the theory in a previous post about the rules placed on Jacob/MIB. Interesting stuff… Interesting blog! =)

  143. wade86 says:

    …wanna know my theory? maybe, just maybe its kinda stupid… but anyway…
    i think that aaron will be the MIB…
    why? if jacob can be replaced, we can guess that the MIB can be replaced to… i know that this never did come up in any of the episodes… but when you think about it, its kinda logical ;)
    why aaron? most of you say that you think that jacob and mib are brothers or related or something, and that jack is a good kandidate to replace jacob… and aaron is son of jack sister claire… and until aaron did come, no women couldn’t have any kids on the island (i think that was one of the rules, so that jacob would have to bring new people on the island)…
    there could be something about that theory…
    what do you think? ;)

  144. wade86 says:

    and one more theory…
    are you all sure that MIB is the bad one, and jacob is the good guy?
    that might be the suprise ending ;)

  145. Miss lost says:

    If you think about the scene with Ben when he was judged…wasn’t smokey present as well as the vision of Alex?
    I think it is possible for him to make that smokey noise while being the “ghost” vision.

    I think he was doing everything he could to get Richard on his side and against Jacob.

  146. Veronica Willis says:

    My daughter and I have just bantered back and forth and think we’ve got it!!!!!
    We have Jacob and the man in black backwards. They are good (man in black) and evil (Jacob). Jacob gives people what they seek, God does not answer personal requests but the Devil will tempt you with what you want to have your “loyalty”. What made us think of this is Richard wanted absolution for the accidental murder he committed which Jacob would not give him……because then he would be free “of the island/death”, no longer in hell. We’ve surmised that each of the candidate survivors broke a commandment. The man in black was not released from the binds put on him by Jacob after Jacob’s death. He needs the replacement to be released. Hmmmmmmm…….

  147. rOnIn says:

    [quote comment="372588"][quote comment="372585"][quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    Luke chapter 4 tells the story of Christ starting with the temptation of Christ
    and the start of His ministry[/quote]
    My wife caught this little nugget,Jacob dunked Richard 3 times in the water just like a baptism.Richard proclaims he wanted to live after the third.Richard has basically lived as the go between of Jacob and the rest of the world since.[/quote]
    [quote comment="372588"][quote comment="372585"][quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    Luke chapter 4 tells the story of Christ starting with the temptation of Christ
    and the start of His ministry[/quote]
    My wife caught this little nugget,Jacob dunked Richard 3 times in the water just like a baptism.Richard proclaims he wanted to live after the third.Richard has basically lived as the go between of Jacob and the rest of the world since.[/quote]

    Wrong … he dunked him 4 times .. I counted

  148. Murphey says:

    [quote comment="372677"]I don’t think Smokey is EVIL. I think Smokey is simply a non-believer. Smokey has said multiple times that the island will keep going without him, that the island doesn’t need to be protected. Smokey reminds me of Desmond, stuck pressing a button every 108 minutes. Except Smokey has decided he’s no longer pressing the button.

    I also re-watched the scene where Ben kills Jacob. The last thing that Jacob says is ‘they’re coming’. Jacob’s body language and tone convey the sense that Smokey should be concerned about this. Smokey clearly doesn’t care.

    I could envision an ending where the rationale for Smokey staying on the island is because Smokey is necessary for the island to function as a ‘cork’. However, Smokey doesn’t believe there is a ‘cork’ function and has therefore decided to leave and Jacob is forcing him to stay.[/quote]

    I like this. I do think MIB is amorale and generally a bad guy but he might not be the “evil” that the island/cork is keeping in the bottle. Rather the “evil” is attached to him so if he left the island the evil would go as well or his presense may be a necessary part of the cork.

    On the other hand, the infection/being “claimed” seems pretty evil and it seemed to be connected to MIB for the French group, Claire and Sayid. I think this is the thing that Jacob is concerned about getting off the island.

    I think part of MIB is just a man who wants to be free but he is connected to the evil, possibly not through his own wishes. Maybe Jacob sacrificed MIB long ago to keep the evil trapped.

  149. Mr. $tuart says:

    It’s amazing how a show can make absolute no since, have characters come and go, (What was the point of introducing tail section survivors if they were all going to die? What about Walt?)have plotlines that vary widely from season to season, no true main character, and lead people on episode after episode, be so FREAKIN’ AWESOME. It’s a true credit to the incredible acting by the members of this cast. LOST is totally goofy, from the smoke monster to the wheel that makes the island disappear to time travel to wooden ships destroying giant stone statues, but somehow the great acting makes you overlook all that.

  150. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="372681"]If you think about the scene with Ben when he was judged…wasn’t smokey present as well as the vision of Alex?
    I think it is possible for him to make that smokey noise while being the “ghost” vision.

    I think he was doing everything he could to get Richard on his side and against Jacob.[/quote]

    I thought Smokey appeared then took the shape of Alex. I can’t remember exactly.

  151. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="372685"]It’s amazing how a show can make absolute no since, have characters come and go, (What was the point of introducing tail section survivors if they were all going to die? What about Walt?)have plotlines that vary widely from season to season, no true main character, and lead people on episode after episode, be so FREAKIN’ AWESOME. It’s a true credit to the incredible acting by the members of this cast. LOST is totally goofy, from the smoke monster to the wheel that makes the island disappear to time travel to wooden ships destroying giant stone statues, but somehow the great acting makes you overlook all that.[/quote]

    I’m going to keep holding on to the hope that by the end, everything will be tied together. Because, honestly, if it turns out to be just about Jacob vs. MIB and their little game, then so many of the plotlines will have been a waste. I remember how excited we all were on this blog when Ajira landed on the runway that Sawyer and Kate had built in season 2. That was when I thought, ok, the writers have thought this through. That was an awesome moment in the show for me. Just hoping they can tie more things together like that.

  152. freckles says:

    Did Lapidus say that the plane could still fly? why does MIB need to take others with him to get off the island? Maybe Widmore is planning on taking him on the sub instead of killing him. Maybe Widmore was his off island advisor all along, which is why Jacob banished him. I recall Richard taking responsibility for young Ben and telling Widmore that Jacob said to take him, but he really didn’t. Maybe that’s when widmore lost faith in Jacob and sold his soul to the “devil”.

  153. Shadow says:

    [quote comment="372649"][quote comment="372647"]The term “man in black” is used for the first time in this episode.

    It’s interesting how the writers ultimately commit to Lost nomenclature as originally coined in the blogosphere.

    I always hated the use of “the hatch” to mean anything other than a door. And the “man in black” seems to be another term taken directly from the blogs–I think.
    ….

    Thank goodness, though, they haven’t used any of the names devised by the folks on this particular blog. There have been some weird ones.

    Now maybe this should be a separate thread.[/quote]
    I don’t remember that term being used. I remember Jacob asking if Richard saw a “man dressed in black”. So they didn’t use a blog term and more over, I think the casting credits called him the man in black. It’s their term I believe.[/quote]

    Actually at the end of the episode when Hurley is talking to Richard, he says that Isabella wants Richard to kill “the man in black”.

  154. Bob says:

    A question for anyone more familiar with all the episodes. When was the last time we saw both Jacob and the “original” man in black together? I ask because if we are just assuming that smokey is the man in black (who is now physically manifested as FLocke), could it not be that Jacob and MIB are two personalities of the same person – the good and evil side of one person? I know we have seen both of them together throughout time, but who is to say that the characters are just talking with themselves?

  155. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372690"][quote comment="372649"][quote comment="372647"]The term “man in black” is used for the first time in this episode.

    It’s interesting how the writers ultimately commit to Lost nomenclature as originally coined in the blogosphere.

    I always hated the use of “the hatch” to mean anything other than a door. And the “man in black” seems to be another term taken directly from the blogs–I think.
    ….

    Thank goodness, though, they haven’t used any of the names devised by the folks on this particular blog. There have been some weird ones.

    Now maybe this should be a separate thread.[/quote]
    I don’t remember that term being used. I remember Jacob asking if Richard saw a “man dressed in black”. So they didn’t use a blog term and more over, I think the casting credits called him the man in black. It’s their term I believe.[/quote]

    Actually at the end of the episode when Hurley is talking to Richard, he says that Isabella wants Richard to kill “the man in black”.[/quote]
    Even still…it’s the show’s term.

  156. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372682"]My daughter and I have just bantered back and forth and think we’ve got it!!!!!
    We have Jacob and the man in black backwards. They are good (man in black) and evil (Jacob). Jacob gives people what they seek, God does not answer personal requests but the Devil will tempt you with what you want to have your “loyalty”. What made us think of this is Richard wanted absolution for the accidental murder he committed which Jacob would not give him……because then he would be free “of the island/death”, no longer in hell. We’ve surmised that each of the candidate survivors broke a commandment. The man in black was not released from the binds put on him by Jacob after Jacob’s death. He needs the replacement to be released. Hmmmmmmm…….[/quote]
    It’s not that Jacob wouldn’t give Richard absolution…it’s that he CAN’T. Jacob represent good, he is NOT God. MIB has made promises like Satan, but as far as I can tell hasn’t kept any of them. Likely because he CAN’T, he represents evil but is NOT Satan.

    IMO

  157. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372680"]and one more theory…
    are you all sure that MIB is the bad one, and jacob is the good guy?
    that might be the suprise ending ;)[/quote]
    Yes…I am sure…and would be surprised. jk

    I THINK so and would not be surprised by anything.

  158. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372683"][quote comment="372588"][quote comment="372585"][quote comment="372572"]Anyone see any thing in this? The bible verse I can read that Richard was looking at in jail:

    And he said, Verily I say unto you. “No prophet is accepted in his own country.

    But I tell you a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut for three years and six months, when great famine was throughout the land…..[/quote]
    Luke chapter 4 tells the story of Christ starting with the temptation of Christ
    and the start of His ministry[/quote]
    My wife caught this little nugget,Jacob dunked Richard 3 times in the water just like a baptism.Richard proclaims he wanted to live after the third.Richard has basically lived as the go between of Jacob and the rest of the world since.[/quote]

    Wrong … he dunked him 4 times .. I counted[/quote]
    My bad,I can’t believe it took 24hrs for someone to catch that.I rewatched after posting and counted too.At least someone reads my posts.
    My wife has to write an essay on why giving me bad statistics is bad.Due monday night or she watches LOST on the old tube set as punishment!LOL

  159. rowjimmy says:

    Christian=Jacob
    If the Island is the cork and Jacob is the rusty wire that holds it in then MIB has never had the chance before now to leave the the Island.
    We have seen Christian off Island.
    We have seen Flocke and Christian on the Island at the same time.
    Christian has been MIA since Jacobs death.
    Claire told us Christian was her father and Flocke was her friend not John Locke.
    Jacob has to have away to stay one step ahead to keep the cork in.To think Jacob can’t posess a body is is just silly!He can just do it a little better.
    The last time we saw Jacob he was kicked into a fire and turned into… thats right a pillar of smoke.Probably white as the virgin snow,we have a new Pope ladies & gentlemen.Lets get ready to rumble when those two clouds meet again.
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH!

  160. MILK says:

    [quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob
    If the Island is the cork and Jacob is the rusty wire that holds it in then MIB has never had the chance before now to leave the the Island.
    We have seen Christian off Island.
    We have seen Flocke and Christian on the Island at the same time.
    Christian has been MIA since Jacobs death.
    Claire told us Christian was her father and Flocke was her friend not John Locke.
    Jacob has to have away to stay one step ahead to keep the cork in.To think Jacob can’t posess a body is is just silly!He can just do it a little better.
    The last time we saw Jacob he was kicked into a fire and turned into… thats right a pillar of smoke.Probably white as the virgin snow,we have a new Pope ladies & gentlemen.Lets get ready to rumble when those two clouds meet again.
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH![/quote]
    Why would Christian=Jacob encourage Locke to turn the wheel thus letting Locke die and come back to have Ben kill him?

  161. Miss lost says:

    I have been thinking about the scene between Richard and Jacob right after Jacob kicked his butt. It was interesting that Jacob tells him that he doesn’t try to influence people, he wants them to make their own choice and Richard tells him the problem with that philosphy is that the only “guidance” or influence they are getting is from MIB. Jacob then asks him if he wants to be a sort of advisor for him.
    It does seem to me that after this conversation, Jacob may have changed his approach a little bit. For example, we do see him influence his candidates in one way or another. He does touch all of them, but he also intervenes in all of their lives and this is an influence regardless if he wants to think it is or not.
    I have not rewatched this ep yet, but will pay closer attention to this conversation when I do. Just thought I would throw that out there.

  162. wizrednat says:

    [quote comment="372693"][quote comment="372690"][quote comment="372649"][quote comment="372647"]The term “man in black” is used for the first time in this episode.

    It’s interesting how the writers ultimately commit to Lost nomenclature as originally coined in the blogosphere.

    I always hated the use of “the hatch” to mean anything other than a door. And the “man in black” seems to be another term taken directly from the blogs–I think.
    ….

    Thank goodness, though, they haven’t used any of the names devised by the folks on this particular blog. There have been some weird ones.

    Now maybe this should be a separate thread.[/quote]
    I don’t remember that term being used. I remember Jacob asking if Richard saw a “man dressed in black”. So they didn’t use a blog term and more over, I think the casting credits called him the man in black. It’s their term I believe.[/quote]

    Actually at the end of the episode when Hurley is talking to Richard, he says that Isabella wants Richard to kill “the man in black”.[/quote]
    Even still…it’s the show’s term.[/quote]
    Actually they referred to him as MIB in the pop-up espisode after we saw him for the first time… thats where the blogs picked it up.

  163. wizrednat says:

    [quote comment="372700"]I have been thinking about the scene between Richard and Jacob right after Jacob kicked his butt. It was interesting that Jacob tells him that he doesn’t try to influence people, he wants them to make their own choice and Richard tells him the problem with that philosphy is that the only “guidance” or influence they are getting is from MIB. Jacob then asks him if he wants to be a sort of advisor for him.
    It does seem to me that after this conversation, Jacob may have changed his approach a little bit. For example, we do see him influence his candidates in one way or another. He does touch all of them, but he also intervenes in all of their lives and this is an influence regardless if he wants to think it is or not.
    I have not rewatched this ep yet, but will pay closer attention to this conversation when I do. Just thought I would throw that out there.[/quote]
    I agree. Jacob chose to touch Sayid at that exact moment in the middle of the street. What I can’t figure out is whether that was to save Sayid from getting killed before he could touch him. Or whether it was to purposely kill Nadia… therefore making it easier to influence Sayid. I’m not convinced on who’s good/evil yet.

  164. wizrednat says:

    [quote comment="372702"][quote comment="372700"]I have been thinking about the scene between Richard and Jacob right after Jacob kicked his butt. It was interesting that Jacob tells him that he doesn’t try to influence people, he wants them to make their own choice and Richard tells him the problem with that philosphy is that the only “guidance” or influence they are getting is from MIB. Jacob then asks him if he wants to be a sort of advisor for him.
    It does seem to me that after this conversation, Jacob may have changed his approach a little bit. For example, we do see him influence his candidates in one way or another. He does touch all of them, but he also intervenes in all of their lives and this is an influence regardless if he wants to think it is or not.
    I have not rewatched this ep yet, but will pay closer attention to this conversation when I do. Just thought I would throw that out there.[/quote]
    I agree. Jacob chose to touch Sayid at that exact moment in the middle of the street. What I can’t figure out is whether that was to save Sayid from getting killed before he could touch him. Or whether it was to purposely kill Nadia… therefore making it easier to influence Sayid. I’m not convinced on who’s good/evil yet.

    To me… Richards immortality is a punishment. He can’t be forgiven, but yet he cant die and has to live with his sin forever.

  165. HollyP says:

    [quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob
    If the Island is the cork and Jacob is the rusty wire that holds it in then MIB has never had the chance before now to leave the the Island.
    We have seen Christian off Island.
    We have seen Flocke and Christian on the Island at the same time.
    Christian has been MIA since Jacobs death.
    Claire told us Christian was her father and Flocke was her friend not John Locke.
    Jacob has to have away to stay one step ahead to keep the cork in.To think Jacob can’t posess a body is is just silly!He can just do it a little better.
    The last time we saw Jacob he was kicked into a fire and turned into… thats right a pillar of smoke.Probably white as the virgin snow,we have a new Pope ladies & gentlemen.Lets get ready to rumble when those two clouds meet again.
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH![/quote]

    Don’t forget we saw Claire off-island too. Who was that, who came to Kate in the middle of the night to urge her NOT to bring Aaron back to the island?

  166. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="372690"][quote comment="372649"][quote comment="372647"]The term “man in black” is used for the first time in this episode.

    It’s interesting how the writers ultimately commit to Lost nomenclature as originally coined in the blogosphere.

    I always hated the use of “the hatch” to mean anything other than a door. And the “man in black” seems to be another term taken directly from the blogs–I think.
    ….

    Thank goodness, though, they haven’t used any of the names devised by the folks on this particular blog. There have been some weird ones.

    Now maybe this should be a separate thread.[/quote]
    I don’t remember that term being used. I remember Jacob asking if Richard saw a “man dressed in black”. So they didn’t use a blog term and more over, I think the casting credits called him the man in black. It’s their term I believe.[/quote]

    Actually at the end of the episode when Hurley is talking to Richard, he says that Isabella wants Richard to kill “the man in black”.[/quote]
    Actually, he tells Richard that Isabelle said he has to make sure MIB dosn’t leave the island.

  167. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372703"]

    To me… Richards immortality is a punishment. He can’t be forgiven, but yet he cant die and has to live with his sin forever.[/quote]

    The way I think it, it is like a punishment, but also not. Instead of say, going to Hell, which was his ultimate fear, he chose to side with Jacob… (Then 150 years later he suddenly feels like F this! I chose HELL!)

    I wonder if Jacob and the MIB were not both in similar circumstances… Jacob may have needed to serve an eternity on the island also, as it’s protector, to avoid going to Hell. MIB may have also been a protector… only he gave up on it a long time ago. The purpose is to do what is right without anything in return to block the evil, yeah?

    I feel like the reason that Richard was reunited with the REAL ghost of his wife, was as a reward for his service over the past 150 years, but also a reminder to like, buckle up, because theres still no turning back…

  168. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372699"][quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob
    If the Island is the cork and Jacob is the rusty wire that holds it in then MIB has never had the chance before now to leave the the Island.
    We have seen Christian off Island.
    We have seen Flocke and Christian on the Island at the same time.
    Christian has been MIA since Jacobs death.
    Claire told us Christian was her father and Flocke was her friend not John Locke.
    Jacob has to have away to stay one step ahead to keep the cork in.To think Jacob can’t posess a body is is just silly!He can just do it a little better.
    The last time we saw Jacob he was kicked into a fire and turned into… thats right a pillar of smoke.Probably white as the virgin snow,we have a new Pope ladies & gentlemen.Lets get ready to rumble when those two clouds meet again.
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH![/quote]
    Why would Christian=Jacob encourage Locke to turn the wheel thus letting Locke die and come back to have Ben kill him?[/quote]

    I think Jacob knows exactly what is going on and that he needed to die and it needed to be done using the “loophole” him and MIB spoke of. I think its the “ultimate plan” of Jacobs to let MIB think he is running the show so eventually he can stop MIB and who ever he might be working with….I think everything is going to plan as far as Jacob is concerned.

    Someone mentioned in an earlier post that we may have our “good” and “bad” guys mixed up, I dont quite agree with this..I think its pretty clear who is who at this point in the show…MIB pretty much told Richard and Sayid that they would be able to see their “dead” wives again if they help him, he told Sawyer that he would get him off the island, basically promising these people the thing they want most, but he hasnt delivered on anything yet…deception??

    Jacob on the other hand says to Richard, ” I cant bring back your dead wife, I cant absolve you from your sins, I cant give u a million bucks, I cannot make your dreams come true, but you should help me because its the right thing to do.” When I first seen the convo between Jacob and Ben I actually felt sorry for Ben because after all he has done for Jacob, his response was “what about you”. Now that I think back on it, plus the information we received this past episode, I understand what Jacob was trying to say to Ben. He wasnt trying to hurt Ben or degrade him, he was trying to send a message to him…” dont help me to benefit yourself, dont help the island because of a guarantee of riches and eternal life, do it because it is the right thing to do.” To me it just doenst seem like something an “evil” person would do or say….my 2 cents!

  169. KathrynMac says:

    [quote comment="372704"]Don’t forget we saw Claire off-island too. Who was that, who came to Kate in the middle of the night to urge her NOT to bring Aaron back to the island?[/quote]

    Actually, Claire told Kate not to bring “HIM” back. So, did “HIM” refer to Aaron or Locke?

  170. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372708"][quote comment="372704"]Don’t forget we saw Claire off-island too. Who was that, who came to Kate in the middle of the night to urge her NOT to bring Aaron back to the island?[/quote]

    Actually, Claire told Kate not to bring “HIM” back. So, did “HIM” refer to Aaron or Locke?[/quote]

    I would assume Aaron because Kate didnt know about John being brought back to the island.

  171. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372704"][quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob
    If the Island is the cork and Jacob is the rusty wire that holds it in then MIB has never had the chance before now to leave the the Island.
    We have seen Christian off Island.
    We have seen Flocke and Christian on the Island at the same time.
    Christian has been MIA since Jacobs death.
    Claire told us Christian was her father and Flocke was her friend not John Locke.
    Jacob has to have away to stay one step ahead to keep the cork in.To think Jacob can’t posess a body is is just silly!He can just do it a little better.
    The last time we saw Jacob he was kicked into a fire and turned into… thats right a pillar of smoke.Probably white as the virgin snow,we have a new Pope ladies & gentlemen.Lets get ready to rumble when those two clouds meet again.
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH![/quote]

    Don’t forget we saw Claire off-island too. Who was that, who came to Kate in the middle of the night to urge her NOT to bring Aaron back to the island?[/quote]

    Maybe once you’re “infected”, you can send your likeness/soul off island?

  172. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372706"][quote comment="372703"]

    To me… Richards immortality is a punishment. He can’t be forgiven, but yet he cant die and has to live with his sin forever.[/quote]

    The way I think it, it is like a punishment, but also not. Instead of say, going to Hell, which was his ultimate fear, he chose to side with Jacob… (Then 150 years later he suddenly feels like F this! I chose HELL!)

    I wonder if Jacob and the MIB were not both in similar circumstances… Jacob may have needed to serve an eternity on the island also, as it’s protector, to avoid going to Hell. MIB may have also been a protector… only he gave up on it a long time ago. The purpose is to do what is right without anything in return to block the evil, yeah?

    I feel like the reason that Richard was reunited with the REAL ghost of his wife, was as a reward for his service over the past 150 years, but also a reminder to like, buckle up, because theres still no turning back…[/quote]

    Naw, I bet Richard finally dies in the end. And when he does, he has a relieved and grateful look on his face.

  173. Kathy P says:

    I think the scene at the very beginning where Jacob goes to see Ilana and she is bruised and has bandages on her face. He is wearing black gloves, IMO I think he has not touched her yet. He point blank asks her “will you help me” and she syas yes. Then they flash to the beach scene with Sun, Jack etc. Then they flash back to Jacob & Ilana. She is now sitting up no bruises no bandages. Jacob is wearing the exact same clothes in the scene where he asks her to help. I think there is a missing scene. When Ilana says yes she will help they cut to the next scene but IMO she says to Jacob I’ll help but what do I get? And he replies what ever you want. she tells him he takes off his gloves and boom Ilana all healed.

  174. IAmNotMIB says:

    Did you see the butterfly fly into the Black Rock and then down to where Ricardus was pulling up the nail? There is a lot of symbolism regarding the butterfly in ancient cultures. Some have to do with the soul and others think it is a rebirth. Won’t go into all of them, but Wiki has some good info.

    One interesting thought is the association of Devil’s Island and Papillon. Papillon was sent there by the French government for imprisonment and was constantly trying to escape the island. Although the story is set in the early 20th. century, it was actually opened in 1852 as a penal colony.

    BTW, the name Papillon means Butterfly.

    I have to believe TPTB had some purpose for it, as the camera actually follows the butterfly’s path to Ricardus.

  175. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="372707"][quote comment="372699"][quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob
    If the Island is the cork and Jacob is the rusty wire that holds it in then MIB has never had the chance before now to leave the the Island.
    We have seen Christian off Island.
    We have seen Flocke and Christian on the Island at the same time.
    Christian has been MIA since Jacobs death.
    Claire told us Christian was her father and Flocke was her friend not John Locke.
    Jacob has to have away to stay one step ahead to keep the cork in.To think Jacob can’t posess a body is is just silly!He can just do it a little better.
    The last time we saw Jacob he was kicked into a fire and turned into… thats right a pillar of smoke.Probably white as the virgin snow,we have a new Pope ladies & gentlemen.Lets get ready to rumble when those two clouds meet again.
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH![/quote]
    Why would Christian=Jacob encourage Locke to turn the wheel thus letting Locke die and come back to have Ben kill him?[/quote]

    I think Jacob knows exactly what is going on and that he needed to die and it needed to be done using the “loophole” him and MIB spoke of. I think its the “ultimate plan” of Jacobs to let MIB think he is running the show so eventually he can stop MIB and who ever he might be working with….I think everything is going to plan as far as Jacob is concerned.

    Someone mentioned in an earlier post that we may have our “good” and “bad” guys mixed up, I dont quite agree with this..I think its pretty clear who is who at this point in the show…MIB pretty much told Richard and Sayid that they would be able to see their “dead” wives again if they help him, he told Sawyer that he would get him off the island, basically promising these people the thing they want most, but he hasnt delivered on anything yet…deception??

    Jacob on the other hand says to Richard, ” I cant bring back your dead wife, I cant absolve you from your sins, I cant give u a million bucks, I cannot make your dreams come true, but you should help me because its the right thing to do.” When I first seen the convo between Jacob and Ben I actually felt sorry for Ben because after all he has done for Jacob, his response was “what about you”. Now that I think back on it, plus the information we received this past episode, I understand what Jacob was trying to say to Ben. He wasnt trying to hurt Ben or degrade him, he was trying to send a message to him…” dont help me to benefit yourself, dont help the island because of a guarantee of riches and eternal life, do it because it is the right thing to do.” To me it just doenst seem like something an “evil” person would do or say….my 2 cents![/quote]
    Didnt Ben gas everyone in the Dharma initiative based on orders from Richard? Who gave Richard the orders? Good/Evil is not black and white even though the rocks suggest otherwise. Both Jacob and MIB are struggling w/ the same issues. Eventhough it seems Jacob has planned things a little better… he doesnt appear to be better off for it. He has lost the Temple which appeared to be Sacred somehow. He has lost Sayid (btw wizrednat was right in the fact that Jacob practically killed Nadia). MIB has promised things that he hasnt deliverd on… but is that only because he hasn’t had the chance to yet? He is trapped.

  176. MILK says:

    [quote comment="372711"][quote comment="372706"][quote comment="372703"]

    To me… Richards immortality is a punishment. He can’t be forgiven, but yet he cant die and has to live with his sin forever.[/quote]

    The way I think it, it is like a punishment, but also not. Instead of say, going to Hell, which was his ultimate fear, he chose to side with Jacob… (Then 150 years later he suddenly feels like F this! I chose HELL!)

    I wonder if Jacob and the MIB were not both in similar circumstances… Jacob may have needed to serve an eternity on the island also, as it’s protector, to avoid going to Hell. MIB may have also been a protector… only he gave up on it a long time ago. The purpose is to do what is right without anything in return to block the evil, yeah?

    I feel like the reason that Richard was reunited with the REAL ghost of his wife, was as a reward for his service over the past 150 years, but also a reminder to like, buckle up, because theres still no turning back…[/quote]

    Naw, I bet Richard finally dies in the end. And when he does, he has a relieved and grateful look on his face.[/quote]
    I see Richard asking to not die because he wants to do his penance. The priest told him he did not have enough time and he seemed a person who took his sin very seriously. He also felt responsible for the death of Isabel. He cannot bring his wife back and he could not get absolution, so he chooses to do his penance. He answered very quickly so I believe his motivation deals with seeing his wife again and the guilt he has.

  177. MILK says:

    [quote comment="372714"][quote comment="372707"][quote comment="372699"][quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob
    If the Island is the cork and Jacob is the rusty wire that holds it in then MIB has never had the chance before now to leave the the Island.
    We have seen Christian off Island.
    We have seen Flocke and Christian on the Island at the same time.
    Christian has been MIA since Jacobs death.
    Claire told us Christian was her father and Flocke was her friend not John Locke.
    Jacob has to have away to stay one step ahead to keep the cork in.To think Jacob can’t posess a body is is just silly!He can just do it a little better.
    The last time we saw Jacob he was kicked into a fire and turned into… thats right a pillar of smoke.Probably white as the virgin snow,we have a new Pope ladies & gentlemen.Lets get ready to rumble when those two clouds meet again.
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH![/quote]
    Why would Christian=Jacob encourage Locke to turn the wheel thus letting Locke die and come back to have Ben kill him?[/quote]

    I think Jacob knows exactly what is going on and that he needed to die and it needed to be done using the “loophole” him and MIB spoke of. I think its the “ultimate plan” of Jacobs to let MIB think he is running the show so eventually he can stop MIB and who ever he might be working with….I think everything is going to plan as far as Jacob is concerned.

    Someone mentioned in an earlier post that we may have our “good” and “bad” guys mixed up, I dont quite agree with this..I think its pretty clear who is who at this point in the show…MIB pretty much told Richard and Sayid that they would be able to see their “dead” wives again if they help him, he told Sawyer that he would get him off the island, basically promising these people the thing they want most, but he hasnt delivered on anything yet…deception??

    Jacob on the other hand says to Richard, ” I cant bring back your dead wife, I cant absolve you from your sins, I cant give u a million bucks, I cannot make your dreams come true, but you should help me because its the right thing to do.” When I first seen the convo between Jacob and Ben I actually felt sorry for Ben because after all he has done for Jacob, his response was “what about you”. Now that I think back on it, plus the information we received this past episode, I understand what Jacob was trying to say to Ben. He wasnt trying to hurt Ben or degrade him, he was trying to send a message to him…” dont help me to benefit yourself, dont help the island because of a guarantee of riches and eternal life, do it because it is the right thing to do.” To me it just doenst seem like something an “evil” person would do or say….my 2 cents![/quote]
    Didnt Ben gas everyone in the Dharma initiative based on orders from Richard? Who gave Richard the orders? Good/Evil is not black and white even though the rocks suggest otherwise. Both Jacob and MIB are struggling w/ the same issues. Eventhough it seems Jacob has planned things a little better… he doesnt appear to be better off for it. He has lost the Temple which appeared to be Sacred somehow. He has lost Sayid (btw wizrednat was right in the fact that Jacob practically killed Nadia). MIB has promised things that he hasnt deliverd on… but is that only because he hasn’t had the chance to yet? He is trapped.[/quote]
    I have been thinking about some other post and Ben killing the DHARMA group on Jacob’s orders and them having a way to control MIB that Ben used to kill the comandos. Could DHARMA have been working on a way to take MIB off the island and thus effect the Velenzie (sp.) Equation in some way and because they were getting close they had to be stopped. Now that I was typing that I thought about other people Richard brought to the island, one being Juliet and how they seem to not die easily on the island. Hense Juliet did not die right away when she fell, which has always bugged me a little. How many of the Others did Jacob bring. I am guessing all since babies couldn’t be born on the island. But even that seems only true for the Others. DHARMA had babies born and Claire had Aaron. Why didn’t Jacob want the Others to have children.

  178. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372713"]Did you see the butterfly fly into the Black Rock and then down to where Ricardus was pulling up the nail? There is a lot of symbolism regarding the butterfly in ancient cultures. Some have to do with the soul and others think it is a rebirth. Won’t go into all of them, but Wiki has some good info.

    One interesting thought is the association of Devil’s Island and Papillon. Papillon was sent there by the French government for imprisonment and was constantly trying to escape the island. Although the story is set in the early 20th. century, it was actually opened in 1852 as a penal colony.

    BTW, the name Papillon means Butterfly.

    I have to believe TPTB had some purpose for it, as the camera actually follows the butterfly’s path to Ricardus.[/quote]
    Its Tinker Bell times are tough she needed a gig

  179. IAmNotMIB says:

    [quote comment="372717"][quote comment="372713"]Did you see the butterfly fly into the Black Rock and then down to where Ricardus was pulling up the nail? There is a lot of symbolism regarding the butterfly in ancient cultures. Some have to do with the soul and others think it is a rebirth. Won’t go into all of them, but Wiki has some good info.

    One interesting thought is the association of Devil’s Island and Papillon. Papillon was sent there by the French government for imprisonment and was constantly trying to escape the island. Although the story is set in the early 20th. century, it was actually opened in 1852 as a penal colony.

    BTW, the name Papillon means Butterfly.

    I have to believe TPTB had some purpose for it, as the camera actually follows the butterfly’s path to Ricardus.[/quote]
    Its Tinker Bell times are tough she needed a gig[/quote]
    Uh dude or dudette… Tinkerbell was a fairy… ;) LOL though…

  180. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372690"][quote comment="372649"][quote comment="372647"]The term “man in black” is used for the first time in this episode.

    It’s interesting how the writers ultimately commit to Lost nomenclature as originally coined in the blogosphere.

    I always hated the use of “the hatch” to mean anything other than a door. And the “man in black” seems to be another term taken directly from the blogs–I think.
    ….

    Thank goodness, though, they haven’t used any of the names devised by the folks on this particular blog. There have been some weird ones.

    Now maybe this should be a separate thread.[/quote]
    I don’t remember that term being used. I remember Jacob asking if Richard saw a “man dressed in black”. So they didn’t use a blog term and more over, I think the casting credits called him the man in black. It’s their term I believe.[/quote]

    Actually at the end of the episode when Hurley is talking to Richard, he says that Isabella wants Richard to kill “the man in black”.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Just to toot my own horn – I was referring to him as MIB first on this blog. After The Incident aired I blogged it here, http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/the-incident , comment 393. Quite a good comment I made, if I do say so myself. ;)

  181. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372715"][quote comment="372711"][quote comment="372706"][quote comment="372703"]

    Naw, I bet Richard finally dies in the end. And when he does, he has a relieved and grateful look on his face.[/quote]
    I see Richard asking to not die because he wants to do his penance. The priest told him he did not have enough time and he seemed a person who took his sin very seriously. He also felt responsible for the death of Isabel. He cannot bring his wife back and he could not get absolution, so he chooses to do his penance. He answered very quickly so I believe his motivation deals with seeing his wife again and the guilt he has.[/quote]
    ***********

    I actually think the priest was a crook. He received money for selling Richard to the slave ship. He wanted Richard to think his only out was to go on that ship…

  182. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372714"]
    Didnt Ben gas everyone in the Dharma initiative based on orders from Richard? Who gave Richard the orders? [/quote]

    A lot of people are struggling with the question of whether Jacob is good, MIB evil, or something else. The show is clearly leading us to believe that Jacob is good and MIB is evil — there is overwhelming evidence that is what they want us to think. Maybe they are setting up a big reversal but I don’t think so.

    The “Jacob=evil” argument some are making revolves around a few minor things (saving Sayid but not his girl, and re: the Purge), but there is volumnous evidence for MIB’s evil and Jacob’s benevolence.

    I’ve thought a lot about the purge and think there is no way Jacob ordered it — it does not in any way fit his M.O. and character as revealed this season. Ben was just a kid and so not the leader of the “others” yet so at this point we don’t know why he did it. It is doubtful he did it on his own accord, so someone told him to do it. Probably whoever was the leader of the Others at that time. Widmore? Eloise? Widmore would make sense since they’ve made him out to be a brutal power hungry killer. I could see Widmore ordering Ben to do it, on his own accord, and maybe this is part of why Widmore was exiled and removed as leader of the others. I also wouldn’t be surprised if MIB corrupted Widmore and tempted him with power while he was leader of the others, and is coming to the island to help MIB escape (because of some promise made to MIB?)

    By the way, re: Ben, isn’t it interesting that most of his murdering (at least on the island) may have been coerced and not his own idea? The Purge and killing Jacob – in both cases he may have been deceived to do the act — not that this absolves him, but it does mean that he may not be a “natural killer”.

  183. Aggie Mo says:

    I wonder if Locke in FSW is MIB having escaped? Just an idea — but he did try to convince FSW Ben in his power play to become principal.

    Maybe the island at the bottom of the ocean means that MIB does leave the island, which is destroyed?

    I wonder if MIB’s loophole requires him to live in the body of the one he inhabited to leave the island once he leaves?

  184. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372714"][quote comment="372707"][quote comment="372699"][quote comment="372697"][/quote]

    I think Jacob knows exactly what is going on and that he needed to die and it needed to be done using the “loophole” him and MIB spoke of. I think its the “ultimate plan” of Jacobs to let MIB think he is running the show so eventually he can stop MIB and who ever he might be working with….I think everything is going to plan as far as Jacob is concerned.

    Someone mentioned in an earlier post that we may have our “good” and “bad” guys mixed up, I dont quite agree with this..I think its pretty clear who is who at this point in the show…MIB pretty much told Richard and Sayid that they would be able to see their “dead” wives again if they help him, he told Sawyer that he would get him off the island, basically promising these people the thing they want most, but he hasnt delivered on anything yet…deception??

    Jacob on the other hand says to Richard, ” I cant bring back your dead wife, I cant absolve you from your sins, I cant give u a million bucks, I cannot make your dreams come true, but you should help me because its the right thing to do.” When I first seen the convo between Jacob and Ben I actually felt sorry for Ben because after all he has done for Jacob, his response was “what about you”. Now that I think back on it, plus the information we received this past episode, I understand what Jacob was trying to say to Ben. He wasnt trying to hurt Ben or degrade him, he was trying to send a message to him…” dont help me to benefit yourself, dont help the island because of a guarantee of riches and eternal life, do it because it is the right thing to do.” To me it just doenst seem like something an “evil” person would do or say….my 2 cents![/quote]
    Didnt Ben gas everyone in the Dharma initiative based on orders from Richard? Who gave Richard the orders? Good/Evil is not black and white even though the rocks suggest otherwise. Both Jacob and MIB are struggling w/ the same issues. Eventhough it seems Jacob has planned things a little better… he doesnt appear to be better off for it. He has lost the Temple which appeared to be Sacred somehow. He has lost Sayid (btw wizrednat was right in the fact that Jacob practically killed Nadia). MIB has promised things that he hasnt deliverd on… but is that only because he hasn’t had the chance to yet? He is trapped.[/quote]

    Its never been said who exactly gave the orders for the purge but we do know that Ben was NOT the leader of the others at that time, it was most likely Widemore, and as far as I know, Jacob has never really given “orders” just lists of names of people that need to be protected and possibly “tested”…..Heres the way I see it…..Jacob knows his time is over so at this point almost everything is expendable, even the temple, because its up to the next “jacob” to rebuild and start over…as far as Sayid is concerned…I dont look at him as a loss for team Jacob, more so a loss for himself (Sayid), Sayid wasnt kidnapped or forced to be on team MIB, he made the decision using his own free will…Nadia needed to die in order for Sayid to make his own decision on who he would side with…IMO Nadia was going to die wether Jacob was there or not…Jacob may have saved Sayids life but he certainly didnt kill Nadia…it was her time.

  185. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="372713"]Did you see the butterfly fly into the Black Rock and then down to where Ricardus was pulling up the nail? There is a lot of symbolism regarding the butterfly in ancient cultures. Some have to do with the soul and others think it is a rebirth. Won’t go into all of them, but Wiki has some good info.

    One interesting thought is the association of Devil’s Island and Papillon. Papillon was sent there by the French government for imprisonment and was constantly trying to escape the island. Although the story is set in the early 20th. century, it was actually opened in 1852 as a penal colony.

    BTW, the name Papillon means Butterfly.

    I have to believe TPTB had some purpose for it, as the camera actually follows the butterfly’s path to Ricardus.[/quote]
    Perhaps the butterfly was Isabella’s soul entering the BR. She appeared right after that and the first view of her was like a glowing white shape.

  186. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="372723"][quote comment="372714"]
    Didnt Ben gas everyone in the Dharma initiative based on orders from Richard? Who gave Richard the orders? [/quote]

    A lot of people are struggling with the question of whether Jacob is good, MIB evil, or something else. The show is clearly leading us to believe that Jacob is good and MIB is evil — there is overwhelming evidence that is what they want us to think. Maybe they are setting up a big reversal but I don’t think so.

    The “Jacob=evil” argument some are making revolves around a few minor things (saving Sayid but not his girl, and re: the Purge), but there is volumnous evidence for MIB’s evil and Jacob’s benevolence.

    I’ve thought a lot about the purge and think there is no way Jacob ordered it — it does not in any way fit his M.O. and character as revealed this season. Ben was just a kid and so not the leader of the “others” yet so at this point we don’t know why he did it. It is doubtful he did it on his own accord, so someone told him to do it. Probably whoever was the leader of the Others at that time. Widmore? Eloise? Widmore would make sense since they’ve made him out to be a brutal power hungry killer. I could see Widmore ordering Ben to do it, on his own accord, and maybe this is part of why Widmore was exiled and removed as leader of the others. I also wouldn’t be surprised if MIB corrupted Widmore and tempted him with power while he was leader of the others, and is coming to the island to help MIB escape (because of some promise made to MIB?)

    By the way, re: Ben, isn’t it interesting that most of his murdering (at least on the island) may have been coerced and not his own idea? The Purge and killing Jacob – in both cases he may have been deceived to do the act — not that this absolves him, but it does mean that he may not be a “natural killer”.[/quote]
    Widmore was the leader when the purge occured. Ben later “tricked” him off the island and he left in the Dharma Sub. I am thinking more and more that Widmore and Flocke are working together.

  187. The Kath says:

    I would like to know if any one has some thoughts or connections on Micheal not being able to kill himself, Richard not being able to kill himself and the MIB not being able to die. There’s probably nothing there but I keep mulling it over.

    Help?

  188. Erin says:

    [quote comment="372559"]Did anyone else think that sucked?[/quote]
    Yeah, for sure. I was really disappointed. I was bored through the majority of the episode and there really weren’t that many questions that were answered at all. Oh well, still excited to see what happens next week.

  189. Snaisy says:

    Is this an error in my recollection or wasn’t the gentleman who paid for Richard, brought him onto the island, and then went digging a sword into the slaves called “Widmore” If so.. can we further talk about why he has not aged…if it is Charles Widmore. Or is it the bloodline of him?

  190. IAmNotMIB says:

    [quote comment="372730"]Is this an error in my recollection or wasn’t the gentleman who paid for Richard, brought him onto the island, and then went digging a sword into the slaves called “Widmore” If so.. can we further talk about why he has not aged…if it is Charles Widmore. Or is it the bloodline of him?[/quote]

    Nope, sorry his name is Mr. Widfield (sp?)… could be a long LOST cousin of course. :.)

  191. IAmNotMIB says:

    [quote comment="372731"][quote comment="372730"]Is this an error in my recollection or wasn’t the gentleman who paid for Richard, brought him onto the island, and then went digging a sword into the slaves called “Widmore” If so.. can we further talk about why he has not aged…if it is Charles Widmore. Or is it the bloodline of him?[/quote]

    Nope, sorry his name is Mr. Widfield (sp?)… could be a long LOST cousin of course. :.)[/quote]

    According to LostPedia it’s Whitfield…

    URL:
    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jonas_Whitfield

  192. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372723"][quote comment="372714"]
    Didnt Ben gas everyone in the Dharma initiative based on orders from Richard? Who gave Richard the orders? [/quote]

    A lot of people are struggling with the question of whether Jacob is good, MIB evil, or something else. The show is clearly leading us to believe that Jacob is good and MIB is evil — there is overwhelming evidence that is what they want us to think. Maybe they are setting up a big reversal but I don’t think so.

    The “Jacob=evil” argument some are making revolves around a few minor things (saving Sayid but not his girl, and re: the Purge), but there is volumnous evidence for MIB’s evil and Jacob’s benevolence.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I think this is settling in for me. I believe Jacob is an entity who was charged with managing the MIB, and I like Dogen’s name for MIB: he is evil incarnate. Not the devil, just an entity of evil itself, like a demon of sorts. And this demon must be kept on the island so it doesn’t infect the world. It seems that while they’re passing time, Jacob decides to bring people to the island to prove the demon wrong about the inherent nature of people. However, this is actually part of Jacob’s plan to end the existence of the entity. Jacob dropped this clue when he said “It only ends once”.

    MIB has been planning his escape for a very long time. MIBs plan has easily been in motion since before Dharma arrived. I definitely think MIB was in Jacob’s cabin the first time and told Locke, “Help me”. I can’t even see why Jacob would need a cabin at all when he already has a tight crib set up in the foot. Jacob’s cabin could have been a ruse/tool/ploy used by MIB the entire time.

  193. andre gr says:

    Great acting by Nestor Carbonell!

  194. Highlander says:

    This episode was definately a departure from the usual feel of a Lost episode. I did enjoy watching Richards back story even though it was a little slow at times. The part that was really lame was the conversation between Jacob and Richard. “Do you want a job?” Just sounded off…

  195. Seajam says:

    The purge has come up a few times. Is this the same event as the gassing of the DI? That was clearly led by Ben. Ben gets his Dad while the rest of the Others get the DI at the barracks. When Ben returns to the barracks, Richard removes his gas mask and asks Ben if he wants a few to go up and take care of his Dad’s body, to which Ben replies “no, leave him there.” If this is the same event, then Richard is a seemingly willing participant while also working for Jacob.

  196. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372736"]The purge has come up a few times. Is this the same event as the gassing of the DI? That was clearly led by Ben. Ben gets his Dad while the rest of the Others get the DI at the barracks. When Ben returns to the barracks, Richard removes his gas mask and asks Ben if he wants a few to go up and take care of his Dad’s body, to which Ben replies “no, leave him there.” If this is the same event, then Richard is a seemingly willing participant while also working for Jacob.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I think it’s safe to say that MIB could have been manipulating this. MIB is very decieving, purposely confuses people, and tries to pit people against Jacob through lies and manipulation (e.g., telling Richard he tried to save Isabella and was unsuccessful, telling Richard Jacob was the devil). The question is: did the purge eventually lead to the loophole? If so, then this was MIBs doing.

  197. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="372737"][quote comment="372736"]The purge has come up a few times. Is this the same event as the gassing of the DI? That was clearly led by Ben. Ben gets his Dad while the rest of the Others get the DI at the barracks. When Ben returns to the barracks, Richard removes his gas mask and asks Ben if he wants a few to go up and take care of his Dad’s body, to which Ben rep[quote comment="372737"][quote comment="372736"]The purge has come up a few times. Is this the same event as the gassing of the DI? That was clearly led by Ben. Ben gets his Dad while the rest of the Others get the DI at the barracks. When Ben returns to the barracks, Richard removes his gas mask and asks Ben if he wants a few to go up and take care of his Dad’s body, to which Ben replies “no, leave him there.” If this is the same event, then Richard is a seemingly willing participant while also working for Jacob.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I think it’s safe to say that MIB could have been manipulating this. MIB is very decieving, purposely confuses people, and tries to pit people against Jacob through lies and manipulation (e.g., telling Richard he tried to save Isabella and was unsuccessful, telling Richard Jacob was the devil). The question is: did the purge eventually lead to the loophole? If so, then this was MIBs doing.[/quote]

    ___________________________________
    I think it’s safe to say that MIB could have been manipulating this. MIB is very decieving, purposely confuses people, and tries to pit people against Jacob through lies and manipulation (e.g., telling Richard he tried to save Isabella and was unsuccessful, telling Richard Jacob was the devil). The question is: did the purge eventually lead to the loophole? If so, then this was MIBs doing.[/quote]

    I guess I can buy that, but then that could be said about everything. It’s either all going according to Jacob’s plan or MIB is manipulating everything!?! I am on the “not convinced Jacob is good” side of the fence right now. He has self-admittedly brought a lot of people to the island for his little game and MIB ends up having to kill them. If I was MIB, I’d be fed up as well. MIB is just sick of having to clean up after all of Jacob’s failures.

  198. Seajam says:

    Sorry, screwed up the quote. The last paragraph is what I wanted to say.

  199. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372736"]The purge has come up a few times. Is this the same event as the gassing of the DI? That was clearly led by Ben. Ben gets his Dad while the rest of the Others get the DI at the barracks. When Ben returns to the barracks, Richard removes his gas mask and asks Ben if he wants a few to go up and take care of his Dad’s body, to which Ben replies “no, leave him there.” If this is the same event, then Richard is a seemingly willing participant while also working for Jacob.[/quote]

    Yes the purge is the gassing of the DI, but Ben did not give the order, it was most likely Widemore or possibly Eloise (whoever was the leader of the others at that time). Richard is pretty much a pawn that will go along with almost anything the leader of the others says so its no surprise he was at the purge and had complete knowledge about it. I still dont think Jacob had anything or any kind of knowledge of the purge.

  200. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372738"]
    I guess I can buy that, but then that could be said about everything. It’s either all going according to Jacob’s plan or MIB is manipulating everything!?! I am on the “not convinced Jacob is good” side of the fence right now. He has self-admittedly brought a lot of people to the island for his little game and MIB ends up having to kill them. If I was MIB, I’d be fed up as well. MIB is just sick of having to clean up after all of Jacob’s failures.[/quote]
    _____________________________
    Furthermore, unless more evidence presents itself, I think it seems logical that everything that has seemed supernatural (with the exception of Walt’s powers and the whispers) has been MIB “pushing things” towards
    the loophole.

  201. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="372725"][quote comment="372714"][quote comment="372707"][quote comment="372699"][quote comment="372697"][/quote]

    I think Jacob knows exactly what is going on and that he needed to die and it needed to be done using the “loophole” him and MIB spoke of. I think its the “ultimate plan” of Jacobs to let MIB think he is running the show so eventually he can stop MIB and who ever he might be working with….I think everything is going to plan as far as Jacob is concerned.

    Someone mentioned in an earlier post that we may have our “good” and “bad” guys mixed up, I dont quite agree with this..I think its pretty clear who is who at this point in the show…MIB pretty much told Richard and Sayid that they would be able to see their “dead” wives again if they help him, he told Sawyer that he would get him off the island, basically promising these people the thing they want most, but he hasnt delivered on anything yet…deception??

    Jacob on the other hand says to Richard, ” I cant bring back your dead wife, I cant absolve you from your sins, I cant give u a million bucks, I cannot make your dreams come true, but you should help me because its the right thing to do.” When I first seen the convo between Jacob and Ben I actually felt sorry for Ben because after all he has done for Jacob, his response was “what about you”. Now that I think back on it, plus the information we received this past episode, I understand what Jacob was trying to say to Ben. He wasnt trying to hurt Ben or degrade him, he was trying to send a message to him…” dont help me to benefit yourself, dont help the island because of a guarantee of riches and eternal life, do it because it is the right thing to do.” To me it just doenst seem like something an “evil” person would do or say….my 2 cents![/quote]
    Didnt Ben gas everyone in the Dharma initiative based on orders from Richard? Who gave Richard the orders? Good/Evil is not black and white even though the rocks suggest otherwise. Both Jacob and MIB are struggling w/ the same issues. Eventhough it seems Jacob has planned things a little better… he doesnt appear to be better off for it. He has lost the Temple which appeared to be Sacred somehow. He has lost Sayid (btw wizrednat was right in the fact that Jacob practically killed Nadia). MIB has promised things that he hasnt deliverd on… but is that only because he hasn’t had the chance to yet? He is trapped.[/quote]

    Its never been said who exactly gave the orders for the purge but we do know that Ben was NOT the leader of the others at that time, it was most likely Widemore, and as far as I know, Jacob has never really given “orders” just lists of names of people that need to be protected and possibly “tested”…..Heres the way I see it…..Jacob knows his time is over so at this point almost everything is expendable, even the temple, because its up to the next “jacob” to rebuild and start over…as far as Sayid is concerned…I dont look at him as a loss for team Jacob, more so a loss for himself (Sayid), Sayid wasnt kidnapped or forced to be on team MIB, he made the decision using his own free will…Nadia needed to die in order for Sayid to make his own decision on who he would side with…IMO Nadia was going to die wether Jacob was there or not…Jacob may have saved Sayids life but he certainly didnt kill Nadia…it was her time.[/quote]
    I think you have to consider Sayid a loss. He was a candidate so it has to be a loss for Jacob. In response to Jacob was just saving Sayid’s life… he could have just touched him after the accident and revived him the same way he did Locke after he fell out of the window. I think this was clearly on purpose by Jacob. He hoped Nadia’s death would make Sayid easier to convince… and it did because thats what MIB used to convince him. Nothing Jacob does is on accident or w/o purpose. Jacob told Hurley that some people can be told what to do and others have to find the way themselves when referring to Jack. Sayid could be told what to do… 1st by Dogen to kill MIB and then by MIB to deliver his message and then kill Dogen. He was not the man Jacob thought he was. He is a loss.

  202. Mateo says:

    If you look at the LOST promo photo you can tell a few things IMO…
    1) Jin is a candidate, not Sun.
    2) Inner left/right sides are the candidates (good/evil? teams? whatever). Outside people are expendable?
    3) Kate is roughly where Judas sat in the table.
    4) Looks like the Pilot is the only one not looking right at Locke?

    Just kicking around ideas, thankfully nothing is certain in this amazing show…

  203. Jimbo says:

    Out of everything Richard could ask Jacob for, he first requests to have his wife back? Over absolving all his sins away? Obviously, Richard is has not been married to long nor have any kids. I would have requested some more time to ponder all my possibilities considering the consequences.

  204. Sassafras says:

    [quote comment="372744"]Out of everything Richard could ask Jacob for, he first requests to have his wife back? Over absolving all his sins away? Obviously, Richard is has not been married to long nor have any kids. I would have requested some more time to ponder all my possibilities considering the consequences.[/quote]
    Ouch.

  205. freckles says:

    [quote comment="372710"][quote comment="372704"][quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob

    Don’t forget we saw Claire off-island too. Who was that, who came to Kate in the middle of the night to urge her NOT to bring Aaron back to the island?[/quote]

    Maybe once you’re “infected”, you can send your likeness/soul off island?[/quote]

    Claire actually appeared to Kate in a dream, which may be different somehow. Also, Horace appeared to Locke in a dream when he told him how to find the cabin. Ben said, “I used to have dreams too.” I’m just saying that dreams may be different than actual apparitions. Ben never spoke to Jacob, but maybe someone was through dreams. I think Eko had a dream of Yeme and also saw him outside of a dream. Did they convey different messages?

  206. freckles says:

    It’s funny that we refer to MIB getting off island to infest evil upon us all, when it’s clear that evil exists off island without him. Or is everyone afraid of the actual smoke monster attacking off island. I can actually foresee it will end with the smoke monster heading through New York city, Chicago or even L.A. and Sawyer saying “son of a bitch”.

  207. Bobola says:

    I’ve been think ing about the series all week and how they are never going to get around to all the answers…there’s no way.
    But, I really want to know…
    where the hell did the Polar bear come from…and is it still alive back in the other world?
    It’s just a thing with me;
    I love Polar bears.
    Others may groan, but I for one would love to see Rod Serling appear at some point…holding that “Cook Book” saying;
    “them humans is good eating… Bears gotta eat too!”

  208. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372750"]I’ve been think ing about the series all week and how they are never going to get around to all the answers…there’s no way.
    But, I really want to know…
    where the hell did the Polar bear come from…and is it still alive back in the other world?
    [/quote]

    The polar bears were brought to the island and studied by DHARMA and kept in the same cages in which Sawyer and Kate were imprisoned on the little island. Presumably, the polar bears were released or escaped at some point and swam to the big island. It has been speculated that the DHARMA-collared polar bear remains that Charlotte found in Tunisia were there because at some point a bear turned the FDW.

    : ) P

  209. Friend of Bunny says:

    The graduate course theory on polar bear travel to Tunisia suggests that after Dharma achieved proficiency in “teleporting” little fluffy white bunnies with numbers on them, through time/space – Dharma wanted to see if they could teleport something fluffy and white, only a little larger, and the bear popped-out on the other side. Remember the video where Chang had the numbered rabbit reappear and got all nervous? Chang and rabbit were in the chamber at the Orchid Station that Ben loaded with all of the metal objects, in order to fry it… so he could climb down to the wheel. The polar bear went to Tunisia after being placed in that chamber – not after “turning the wheel.” That is the advanced theory

  210. Dadman says:

    [quote comment="372592"] I can’t complain too much about the episode. Weird that Magnus Hanso really was no big deal. I was thinking that he knew all about the island was coming back and forth to it, but it obviously was his first and only time there.
    [/quote]

    So, I’m still wondering why so little was made of this Hanso. Many on this blog in past seasons made a lot of hypotheses about him. Yet, after this episode, so little talk has referred to him.

    In the episode, was he one who was killed by Smokey or was he one who went looking for help just before Smokey got there? And, if the latter, what ever happened to him?

  211. RGS says:

    [quote comment="372758"][quote comment="372592"] I can’t complain too much about the episode. Weird that Magnus Hanso really was no big deal. I was thinking that he knew all about the island was coming back and forth to it, but it obviously was his first and only time there.
    [/quote]

    So, I’m still wondering why so little was made of this Hanso. Many on this blog in past seasons made a lot of hypotheses about him. Yet, after this episode, so little talk has referred to him.

    In the episode, was he one who was killed by Smokey or was he one who went looking for help just before Smokey got there? And, if the latter, what ever happened to him?[/quote]

    I just rewatched it, and that was Whitfield who was killing the slaves. Someone on the deck yelled that Capt. Hanso was dead prior to him going down there to kill.

  212. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372748"]It’s funny that we refer to MIB getting off island to infest evil upon us all, when it’s clear that evil exists off island without him. Or is everyone afraid of the actual smoke monster attacking off island. I can actually foresee it will end with the smoke monster heading through New York city, Chicago or even L.A. and Sawyer saying “son of a bitch”.[/quote]
    There has always been the work of the devil off island…but it hasn’t always ‘ruled’.

  213. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372729"][quote comment="372559"]Did anyone else think that sucked?[/quote]
    Yeah, for sure. I was really disappointed. I was bored through the majority of the episode and there really weren’t that many questions that were answered at all. Oh well, still excited to see what happens next week.[/quote]
    Questions answered:

    How the statue fell apart. (Minor)
    Why Richard doesn’t age. (Major)
    How long Richard has been on the island. (Major)
    How the BR ended up in the middle of the jungle. (Minor)
    Somewhat of an idea of the purpose of the island.(Major IMO)

  214. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372733"][quote comment="372723"][quote comment="372714"]
    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    I definitely think MIB was in Jacob’s cabin the first time and told Locke, “Help me”. I can’t even see why Jacob would need a cabin at all when he already has a tight crib set up in the foot. Jacob’s cabin could have been a ruse/tool/ploy used by MIB the entire time.[/quote]
    I think it’s still possible that Jacob was in the cabin and asked Locke for help. Why? Because of the intact ash ring. It was keeping Smokey out. We know it wasn’t keeping him in because he made several appearances. Ilana also went their first, so she knew he was using at some point and she made the point that Jacob had not been there in a while.

  215. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372724"]

    Maybe the island at the bottom of the ocean means that MIB does leave the island, which is destroyed?

    [/quote]
    Pretty much what I meant in post 32.

    Hammer
    Comment 32, posted 4 days, 22 hours ago – Quote and reply
    So if the island is a cork to stop evil from escaping and destroying the world (hello Valenzetti), what does it mean that the island is sunk in FSW…is evil on the way unless the FSW gets reconciled?

  216. DocH says:

    re: So if the island is a cork to stop evil from escaping and destroying the world?
    ——-
    I think
    Jacob = the cork.
    MIB = the wine.
    Island Snowglobe = the bottle.

  217. ereeste says:

    [quote comment="372697"]Christian=Jacob
    Final canidates as replacements Jack and Sawyer cut to beach
    Sawyer:You know ow much I want to kill you
    Jack:yes
    Sawyer:SON OF A BITCH![/quote]

    Haha I thought I was the only one who saw this coming.

    Didn’t that spanish inmate who saw the Statue, say “this island is PROTECTED by the devil” ?? He never said the island was “holding” the devil, or “trapping” the devil. Thats the only reason I could think for MIB not actually being the evil one. But, I think its pretty obvious really, Jacob is the good one. He respects free will. MIB/Flocke manipulates, bribes, promises etc. But whoever ends up being dark in the end, has definatly disguised themself as light.

  218. intolost says:

    Wow. Poor Richard. I like “Lockemonster” as opposed to “MIB.” Just saying. I think the Losties will ultimately have to choose which “reality/destiny” they want once they have all questions answered. I’m glad V starts on Tuesday. I miss Jules.

  219. Ufoundme says:

    Long time reader, but first time poster here.

    I’ve become intrigued with Ilana (sp), especially after this episode.

    She clearly has intimate knowledge of the island, although to my recollection she’s never said if she had ever lived there. If she was an Other at one time, then she almost certainly would have known Richard/Ricardus and would not have had to rely on the secret clubhouse password,”What lies in the shadow of the statue?” to confirm his identity.

    Either way, her close relationship with Jacob and the fact that she considers him to be the closest she ever had to a father, is odd (right, right…what isn’t??)

    We know now that Jacob chose to only interact with people on the island through Richard, so that would make Ilana the exception. On the other hand, if she never lived there, how could she have known Jacob at all?

    The scenes at the hospital: When Jacob first arrives, her head is almost entirely bandaged, and what we can see of her face is badly bruised. In the next scene, when he is giving her more details about her mission, she’s sitting up and almost entirely healed. Was he visiting repeatedly over many days, or did he heal her? I got a weird “out of time” vibe from these scenes. When he tells her he needs her help to protect the candidates, and that this is what she had been preparing for, I think they both knew that he was going to die. Her choked-back sob made me think she always expected the day would come when he would ask this of her.

    I’m thinking more and more that, like Ben, Jacob always has a plan.

    Any thoughts?

  220. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372762"][quote comment="372733"][quote comment="372723"][quote comment="372714"]
    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    I definitely think MIB was in Jacob’s cabin the first time and told Locke, “Help me”. I can’t even see why Jacob would need a cabin at all when he already has a tight crib set up in the foot. Jacob’s cabin could have been a ruse/tool/ploy used by MIB the entire time.[/quote]
    I think it’s still possible that Jacob was in the cabin and asked Locke for help. Why? Because of the intact ash ring. It was keeping Smokey out. We know it wasn’t keeping him in because he made several appearances. Ilana also went their first, so she knew he was using at some point and she made the point that Jacob had not been there in a while.[/quote]
    _________________________________
    You’ve got a good take, but I think I can make a good case the other way. You’re assuming the ash ring was intact because they did not show a place where it might have been broken. If MIB was trying to manipulate, it would make perfect sense for him to create a fake Jacob residence where Ben or Richard would go to talk to Jacob. Maybe the ash was meant to keep him in and was broken sometime before Ben or Richard first went there. The whole cabin thing smells funny IMO. Jacob doesn’t need an ash ring around the foot. Why would he need one around a stinkin’ cabin?

  221. sector7 says:

    To continue from my last (comment 220)… I’m now ready to state I think MIB was manipulating the Others since before the purge. MIB orchestrated the purge because it eventually led to the loophole.

  222. Jay says:

    [quote comment="372767"]Long time reader, but first time poster here.

    I’ve become intrigued with Ilana (sp), especially after this episode.

    She clearly has intimate knowledge of the island, although to my recollection she’s never said if she had ever lived there. If she was an Other at one time, then she almost certainly would have known Richard/Ricardus and would not have had to rely on the secret clubhouse password,”What lies in the shadow of the statue?” to confirm his identity.

    Either way, her close relationship with Jacob and the fact that she considers him to be the closest she ever had to a father, is odd (right, right…what isn’t??)

    We know now that Jacob chose to only interact with people on the island through Richard, so that would make Ilana the exception. On the other hand, if she never lived there, how could she have known Jacob at all?

    The scenes at the hospital: When Jacob first arrives, her head is almost entirely bandaged, and what we can see of her face is badly bruised. In the next scene, when he is giving her more details about her mission, she’s sitting up and almost entirely healed. Was he visiting repeatedly over many days, or did he heal her? I got a weird “out of time” vibe from these scenes. When he tells her he needs her help to protect the candidates, and that this is what she had been preparing for, I think they both knew that he was going to die. Her choked-back sob made me think she always expected the day would come when he would ask this of her.

    I’m thinking more and more that, like Ben, Jacob always has a plan.

    Any thoughts?[/quote]
    *****************
    I agree. Ilana is intriguing and I am guessing that one of the last episodes (prior to the 2 hr finale) is on Ilana’s backstory with Jacb- it will explain a lot. I have also wondered at the primitive nature of the hospital Ilana is in – is it a country where medical care was primitive (think Soviet Union) or is it in current time at all?

  223. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372764"]re: So if the island is a cork to stop evil from escaping and destroying the world?
    ——-
    I think
    Jacob = the cork.
    MIB = the wine.
    Island Snowglobe = the bottle.[/quote]
    Quite possible for sure. Though if so, the cork is already gone…so why is the wine still in the bottle?

  224. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372770"][quote comment="372767"]Long time reader, but first time poster here.

    I’ve become intrigued with Ilana (sp), especially after this episode.

    She clearly has intimate knowledge of the island, although to my recollection she’s never said if she had ever lived there. If she was an Other at one time, then she almost certainly would have known Richard/Ricardus and would not have had to rely on the secret clubhouse password,”What lies in the shadow of the statue?” to confirm his identity.

    Either way, her close relationship with Jacob and the fact that she considers him to be the closest she ever had to a father, is odd (right, right…what isn’t??)

    We know now that Jacob chose to only interact with people on the island through Richard, so that would make Ilana the exception. On the other hand, if she never lived there, how could she have known Jacob at all?

    The scenes at the hospital: When Jacob first arrives, her head is almost entirely bandaged, and what we can see of her face is badly bruised. In the next scene, when he is giving her more details about her mission, she’s sitting up and almost entirely healed. Was he visiting repeatedly over many days, or did he heal her? I got a weird “out of time” vibe from these scenes. When he tells her he needs her help to protect the candidates, and that this is what she had been preparing for, I think they both knew that he was going to die. Her choked-back sob made me think she always expected the day would come when he would ask this of her.

    I’m thinking more and more that, like Ben, Jacob always has a plan.

    Any thoughts?[/quote]
    *****************
    I agree. Ilana is intriguing and I am guessing that one of the last episodes (prior to the 2 hr finale) is on Ilana’s backstory with Jacb- it will explain a lot. I have also wondered at the primitive nature of the hospital Ilana is in – is it a country where medical care was primitive (think Soviet Union) or is it in current time at all?[/quote]
    __________________________________
    Probably not Soviet Union…maybe one of their satellite countries. The Soviets had lots of money until their collapse.

  225. wallyp says:

    My thought when we first saw Ilana last season was that she was in the past… WWI or WWII era hospital? It still looks old fashioned to me…

    Anyone think maybe Ilana was part of the MIB side at one point, and saved by Jacob? Might explain the black gloves, or why he’s the closest thing she ever had to a father…?

  226. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372771"]
    Though if so, the cork is already gone… so why is the wine still in the bottle?
    [/quote]
    The bottle is still upright (and unshattered). That’s what the lighthouse dial-out was supposed to accomplish – tip over/shatter the bottle, so the wine could leave. That was Plan A… foiled by Jack. Now Plan B is afoot… recruit all remaining islanders in the war against the inbound Team Widmore (the General leading the fight, as opposed to Team Keamy, a Captain).

  227. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="372762"][quote comment="372733"][quote comment="372723"][quote comment="372714"]
    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    I definitely think MIB was in Jacob’s cabin the first time and told Locke, “Help me”. I can’t even see why Jacob would need a cabin at all when he already has a tight crib set up in the foot. Jacob’s cabin could have been a ruse/tool/ploy used by MIB the entire time.[/quote]
    I think it’s still possible that Jacob was in the cabin and asked Locke for help. Why? Because of the intact ash ring. It was keeping Smokey out. We know it wasn’t keeping him in because he made several appearances. Ilana also went their first, so she knew he was using at some point and she made the point that Jacob had not been there in a while.[/quote]
    Ilana said “HE” hasn’t been here in awhile. I agree that she probably meant Jacob but we can’t be sure.

  228. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="372771"][quote comment="372764"]re: So if the island is a cork to stop evil from escaping and destroying the world?
    ——-
    I think
    Jacob = the cork.
    MIB = the wine.
    Island Snowglobe = the bottle.[/quote]
    Quite possible for sure. Though if so, the cork is already gone…so why is the wine still in the bottle?[/quote]
    Jacob said the island was the cork. Jacob is protecting the island. In my opinion the cork isn’t gone.

  229. sfw says:

    ok…first time here, and I have a question or two…(who wouldn’t? lol) ok ok maybe more than 2…
    First, am I the only person who thinks that Aaron is supposed to be counted as the 6th candidate? He was one of the original Oceanic 6, right? If they were all supposed to come back to stop the time shifting, I think that if he had come back with the others, they might not have ended up in 1977…as it is, though, did they stop shifting in time because Daniel got to talk to Desmond – Desmond being special?
    And maybe this has been asked and answered before, but I haven’t seen it…
    If the FSW is going to continue…what is the point of it? It is obviously not really what would have happened had they landed in LA instead of crashing, because most of their pasts are VERY different than what we originally knew about them…Sawyer a cop? Miles his partner? ok…whatever…?
    Still love the show even though I think there will still be unanswered questions after the finale.

  230. sfw says:

    Haha I thought I was the only one who saw this coming.

    Didn’t that spanish inmate who saw the Statue, say “this island is PROTECTED by the devil” ?? He never said the island was “holding” the devil, or “trapping” the devil. Thats the only reason I could think for MIB not actually being the evil one. But, I think its pretty obvious really, Jacob is the good one. He respects free will. MIB/Flocke manipulates, bribes, promises etc. But whoever ends up being dark in the end, has definatly disguised themself as light.[/quote]

    I think they saw the statue and freaked out, thinking it was a devil of some sort…and guess the storm was pretty bad to have been a large enough wave to wreck the statue and take the BR to the middle of the island…or quite a ways inland…

  231. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372776"][quote comment="372771"][quote comment="372764"]re: So if the island is a cork to stop evil from escaping and destroying the world?
    ——-
    I think
    Jacob = the cork.
    MIB = the wine.
    Island Snowglobe = the bottle.[/quote]
    Quite possible for sure. Though if so, the cork is already gone…so why is the wine still in the bottle?[/quote]
    Jacob said the island was the cork. Jacob is protecting the island. In my opinion the cork isn’t gone.[/quote]
    ***********
    I don’t think the cork is gone yet either. If it were then Flocke would be able to leave. As it stands I think he has to destroy the island before he can leave or all the possible candidates. The island itself has powers as we know. Somehow, it too, can keep Flocke there for now.

  232. Miss lost says:

    I had an idea about the island being under water and the shift in our charaters stories. We have seen that if the plane successfully lands it appears that the island is under water and some of the lives of our losties are different.
    Maybe this is a sort of stretch, but what if it is the potential deals made with Flocke? Somehow the shift is him getting off and he is able to alter certain aspects of their lives. Just a thought…
    In the end they will have to choose thier path and not have it manipulated…what path will they choose?

  233. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372743"]If you look at the LOST promo photo you can tell a few things IMO…
    1) Jin is a candidate, not Sun.
    2) Inner left/right sides are the candidates (good/evil? teams? whatever). Outside people are expendable?
    3) Kate is roughly where Judas sat in the table.
    4) Looks like the Pilot is the only one not looking right at Locke?

    Just kicking around ideas, thankfully nothing is certain in this amazing show…[/quote]
    [quote comment="372778"]ok…first time here, and I have a question or two…(who wouldn’t? lol) ok ok maybe more than 2…
    First, am I the only person who thinks that Aaron is supposed to be counted as the 6th candidate? He was one of the original Oceanic 6, right? [/quote]

    I don’t think Aaron is a candidate and I think Sun is the candidate, not Jin. When Jacob visited Ilana in the hospital he gave her a list of six people- the remaining candidates. She came back to the island with Sun, Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sayid, and number six (?). Number six is Frank in my opinion. He was supposed to be the original pilot (which is why Smokie got mad and killed the pilot right away), he ended up on the island anyway, and now he is back again. Obviously the island wants him.

  234. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372614"][quote comment="372611"]Something doesn’t jive after last night’s episode: Richard is the intermediary for Jacob acting on his behalf? Jacob brings people to the island to show the MIB that they can do the right thing? (And on that point, what is the point?… Everyone Jacob brought to the island, has done something for good or for bad, but either way it makes no difference to the MIB…so, why does Jacob continue this?)

    – What is the explanation for Richard (as Jacob’s intermediary) directing young Ben to commit genocide and kill everyone, including his own father, in the Dharma Initiative?

    [/quote]
    I think it is clear that Jacob brings people to the island to give them a chance to redeem themselves (some people that come along for the ride are collateral). After hearing Jacob talk to Richard, I don’t think Jacob approved the purge. I think he made it clear he won’t stop any of them from doing anything. It is the classic theme, God tells us how he would like for us to behave, but gives us free will. Satan tempts us and also allows free will. I said in the past that Ben fell out of favor as leader because of his choices.[/quote]

    Agreed!

  235. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="372615"][quote comment="372612"][quote comment="372569"][quote comment="372568"][/quote][/quote]

    So, what is this episode?
    Jacob is Jesus and Smokey is El Diablo?

    [/quote]

    I for one do not think this is true at all. Jacob is NOT Jesus, but represents the ‘good’ side of what the Bible tells us. MIB is NOT Satan, but represents the ‘bad’ side of what the bible tells us.[/quote]

    Actually, I don’t think it has anything to do with the Bible, or any other book, that is just coincidence and get people talking about “clues”. Sure, there are alot of parallels to all these books. But quite simply, this is just a story of good vs evil and how everyone has free will to choose either one, or both.

  236. Just wrote a piece for the Huffington Post on a possible spoiler video. I’m not sure if it’s real or not, but it’s interesting!
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-grossman/lost-spoiler-alert-actor_b_505135.html

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