The Package

Sun - Lost -Season 6 - The Package
Last week’s episode lived up to its billing – we finally got Riccardo’s back story and more of the MIB. Plenty of religious overtures were presented, but that probably had as much to do with MIB playing on Richard’s religion than any real tangible meaning to the over-arching storyline. The season is half way over, incredible to think there are only 9 hours left and then that is it for Lost.

Tonight’s episode is rumored to be centric to Sun/Jin.

Synopsis

Sun and Jin desperately continue their search for one another, and Locke confronts his enemy

Episode Preview

Sneak Peek

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224 Responses to The Package

  1. Mateo says:

    YES! Finally! after all these years I’m the first to post!…. crap, what should I say?…

  2. LostGrrl says:

    Unfortunately for the Kwans, I can’t see how their back story can be nearly as compelling and riviting as Richard’s. I think we can expect to see:

    – What happened after Jin was detained at LAX and before he was put in the freezer

    – The return of Keamy, in the hours before his egg-filled death by Sayid

    – More of the frosty relationship between Sideways Sun and Jin

    – PERHAPS… the reunion between Island Sun and Jin on the island?? (I hope so… They’ve certainly kept them apart for long enough. What has Sun had to do these past few seasons except to say, “Have you seen Jin?”)

  3. Miss lost says:

    so the synopsis says “Locke confronts his enemy.” Who is that going to be? Widmore? Richard? Llana? or Jack?

  4. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372782"]so the synopsis says “Locke confronts his enemy.” Who is that going to be? Widmore? Richard? Llana? or Jack?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I’m wondering where Ben is in all of this. Whose side is he on? Is he on any side?

  5. MissToastyBuns says:

    [quote comment="372782"]
    Llana?
    [/quote]

    I – L – A – N – A (eye-lawna)

    not

    L – L – A – N – A (luh-lawna)

  6. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372783"][quote comment="372782"]so the synopsis says “Locke confronts his enemy.” Who is that going to be? Widmore? Richard? Llana? or Jack?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I’m wondering where Ben is in all of this. Whose side is he on? Is he on any side?[/quote]
    ***********
    so hoping that after the last scene with him returning to camp with Ilana that he truly is sorry for killing Jacob and that he was humbled by her forgiveness. I think his is on the side of Jacob!

  7. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372785"][quote comment="372782"]
    Llana?
    [/quote]

    I – L – A – N – A (eye-lawna)

    not

    L – L – A – N – A (luh-lawna)[/quote]
    *******
    So thankful you could spell it out for me.

  8. Kat says:

    I just hope that we find out today who is the candidate, Jin or Sun?

  9. TECH says:

    Are we sure “Locke confronts his enemy” is refering to the man in black? Becuz there’s still an alive and well Locke in the alternate timeline we took a week off from

  10. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372790"]Are we sure “Locke confronts his enemy” is refering to the man in black? Becuz there’s still an alive and well Locke in the alternate timeline we took a week off from[/quote]
    I just checked back over the past six episodes and the synopsis – from the Official ABC description of the episode… only describes what happens on the island. But there is always a hint of overlap in the LA flash-sideways world. The “Kate” episode says Kate is on the run… duh… that is always Kate’s circumstance, wherever she is.

  11. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372785"][quote comment="372782"]
    Llana?
    [/quote]

    I – L – A – N – A (eye-lawna)

    not

    L – L – A – N – A (luh-lawna)[/quote]

    This site really needs to use a different font for which capital i “I” does not look like lowercase L “l” :)

  12. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372785"][quote comment="372782"]
    Llana?
    [/quote]

    I – L – A – N – A (eye-lawna)

    not

    L – L – A – N – A (luh-lawna)[/quote]

    Well if we are going to be snooty about this, its ILANA – (ILL-LAWNA) not (eye-lawna)

  13. OBTUSE says:

    Me and my Llana
    me and my Llana
    are going to the dentist today….

  14. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372783"][quote comment="372782"]so the synopsis says “Locke confronts his enemy.” Who is that going to be? Widmore? Richard? Llana? or Jack?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I’m wondering where Ben is in all of this. Whose side is he on? Is he on any side?[/quote]

    I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say he’s on the side of Ilana… (though with Lost, you can never be sure…) But, he seems genuinely sorry for what happened, and willing to make up for it.

    Now, if this were the same Ben we saw a few seasons ago, I’d agree that his allegiance is questionable. But, this new Ben has been deeply humbled by the death of Alex and loss of his power. He is no longer in a position to manipulate and conspire.

  15. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372796"][quote comment="372783"][quote comment="372782"]so the synopsis says “Locke confronts his enemy.” Who is that going to be? Widmore? Richard? Llana? or Jack?[/quote]
    _____________________________
    I’m wondering where Ben is in all of this. Whose side is he on? Is he on any side?[/quote]

    I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say he’s on the side of Ilana… (though with Lost, you can never be sure…) But, he seems genuinely sorry for what happened, and willing to make up for it.

    Now, if this were the same Ben we saw a few seasons ago, I’d agree that his allegiance is questionable. But, this new Ben has been deeply humbled by the death of Alex and loss of his power. He is no longer in a position to manipulate and conspire.[/quote]
    ______________________________________________
    Which is too bad because in my opinion, Ben made the show. I miss him being in charge.

  16. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372782"]so the synopsis says “Locke confronts his enemy.” Who is that going to be? Widmore? Richard? Llana? or Jack?[/quote]

    I really hope the enemy he confronts is Widmore. That would be the most exciting to me… I’m dying to know what role Widmore is playing in all this!!!

  17. HollyP says:

    Deeply humbled by the death of Alex… three years ago, during which time he manipulated Locke and Sayid, killed both Locke and Jacob with his own hands and had Sayid kill a bunch of people…

    I think he was more humbled by his killing of Jacob than of Alex’s death.

  18. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372799"]Deeply humbled by the death of Alex… three years ago, during which time he manipulated Locke and Sayid, killed both Locke and Jacob with his own hands and had Sayid kill a bunch of people…

    I think he was more humbled by his killing of Jacob than of Alex’s death.[/quote]
    *****************

    I think it has been the culmination of both. I think at first Ben wanted to blame Alex’s death on Keamy and Widmore. I think he now knows that he is as muh to blame and I think we did see him own up to that.
    I think we also saw something in Ben when he hesitated to shoot Penny when he saw her son.
    I know Ben is not the same crazy, unpredictable Ben we have grown to love and hate but I think he will have a lot to do with the final outcome.

  19. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372798"][quote comment="372782"]so the synopsis says “Locke confronts his enemy.” Who is that going to be? Widmore? Richard? Llana? or Jack?[/quote]

    I really hope the enemy he confronts is Widmore. That would be the most exciting to me… I’m dying to know what role Widmore is playing in all this!!![/quote]
    ********
    I hope it is Widmore too so that we get more info on Widmore’s role and why he has returned….obviously we know he has always wanted to return but with Jacob gone his motive may be different.

  20. Miss lost says:

    “the package”…is this what Jin was delivering in FSW?

  21. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372802"]“the package”…is this what Jin was delivering in FSW?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Could be what Widmore brought with him on the sub.

  22. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372803"][quote comment="372802"]“the package”…is this what Jin was delivering in FSW?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Could be what Widmore brought with him on the sub.[/quote]
    ********
    didn’t think about that….now I hope that is what “the package” is!

  23. MissToastyBuns says:

    [quote comment="372794"]
    Well if we are going to be snooty about this…
    [/quote]
    No snooty.

    Guttahman, you are in public, at a gathering where you intend to meet new people and impress them with your skilz’ – and you have a boogie hang from your nose. I tell you politely about it and you… what?
    a)Get mad at me for telling you.
    b)Get mad at yourself for being such a tool.
    c)Thank me politely, or just nod. Remove the boogie quietly. Get on with your life and don’t think twice about it.

    I vote — C –

    and Miss lost thanked me politely for telling her about her minor error. So BTFO.

  24. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372805"][quote comment="372794"]
    Well if we are going to be snooty about this…
    [/quote]
    No snooty.

    Guttahman, you are in public, at a gathering where you intend to meet new people and impress them with your skilz’ – and you have a boogie hang from your nose. I tell you politely about it and you… what?
    a)Get mad at me for telling you.
    b)Get mad at yourself for being such a tool.
    c)Thank me politely, or just nod. Remove the boogie quietly. Get on with your life and don’t think twice about it.

    I vote — C –

    and Miss lost thanked me politely for telling her about her minor error. So BTFO.[/quote]
    *************
    I hate to sound ungrateful but my post was suppose to be obvious about your post NOT being so nice. The way you S-P-E-L-L-E-D it out didn’t appear very nice.
    I think Guttaham was trying to point out if you are going to correct someone you had also better make sure you are right…and your pronunciation was off.

    If you read this blog enough there are plenty of mispellings…Keamy or Keemy just as an example. One could look it up (it is Keamy according to Lostepedia) or one could simply overlook the error and get to the point the person is making. I have appologized before about spelling errors, as I try not to have them, but I do not always reread what I have wrote before I post and catch them after I have already posted.
    If you were not trying to be snooty about it, it just seemed so the way it was spelled out, CAPITALIZED and then phonetically written out as if I were dumb.
    I have a feeling, either way, you knew what character I was refering to.
    I try to be very nice on here as I just love Lost and love sharing ideas with fellow bloggers:)

  25. Lindsey says:

    and now back to whats important.

    what I am hoping for on this episode:

    Which one is the Candidate, Jin or Sun?

    Hopefully more on Charlie in the flash-sideways, we saw is brother for a second in the one with Sawyer.

    Actually to see more of any of the characters that have died in the previous seasons would be cool. for some reason I am very intrigued with these flash sidways. so far they all seem to be positive. But I have a feeling that closer to the end the flash sideways are going to go very very bad, and some kind of correction is going to need to be made. Maybe.

  26. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372805"][quote comment="372794"]
    Well if we are going to be snooty about this…
    [/quote]
    No snooty.

    Guttahman, you are in public, at a gathering where you intend to meet new people and impress them with your skilz’ – and you have a boogie hang from your nose. I tell you politely about it and you… what?
    a)Get mad at me for telling you.
    b)Get mad at yourself for being such a tool.
    c)Thank me politely, or just nod. Remove the boogie quietly. Get on with your life and don’t think twice about it.

    I vote — C –

    and Miss lost thanked me politely for telling her about her minor error. So BTFO.[/quote]

    Well obviously I am not the only one who took what “Miss Lost” said as NOT thanking you….but seriously…are you the grammar police? Is this what you do all day, search the blogs for misspellings and punctuation errors? or maybe your name is Ilana and you get pissed when people mispronounce it. Either way your comment was uncalled for…out of everything we have seen in the past 6 seasons of LOST you decided to focus your attention on the spelling of names, then you tell me to BTFO when I correct you!! Are we in grade school again?? You wanna meet me at the playground and duke it out? Come on people, if we are not all grown folks we can at least act like it sometimes! BTW…this just made my day…Thanks!!

  27. EnuffAlready says:

    Enough! If you have nothing to say on this LOST blog about LOST, get lost.

  28. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372807"]and now back to whats important.

    what I am hoping for on this episode:

    Which one is the Candidate, Jin or Sun?

    Hopefully more on Charlie in the flash-sideways, we saw is brother for a second in the one with Sawyer.

    Actually to see more of any of the characters that have died in the previous seasons would be cool. for some reason I am very intrigued with these flash sidways. so far they all seem to be positive. But I have a feeling that closer to the end the flash sideways are going to go very very bad, and some kind of correction is going to need to be made. Maybe.[/quote]

    I just posted this on last weeks blog also.

    I think that Sun is the candidate. In the hospital Jacob gives Ilana a list of the six remaining candidates. She comes back to the island with SUN, Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley and…? I think number six might be Frank. Here is why-
    1.He was supposed to fly the original plane. Plane crashed and one of the first things Smokie did is to go look for the pilot. Realizing it was not number 6/ candidate Frank he kills the pilot.
    2. Frank ends up on the island anyway.
    3. Frank leaves with the other candidates, but once again comes back. Clearly the island wants him for something.
    4. Frank KNOWS the plane that was found on the bottom of the ocean was not 815.

  29. EnuffAlready says:

    [quote comment="372811"]
    I think that Sun is the candidate. In the hospital Jacob gives Ilana a list of the six remaining candidates. She comes back to the island with SUN, Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley and…? I think number six might be Frank. Here is why-
    1.He was supposed to fly the original plane. Plane crashed and one of the first things Smokie did is to go look for the pilot. Realizing it was not number 6/ candidate Frank he kills the pilot.
    2. Frank ends up on the island anyway.
    3. Frank leaves with the other candidates, but once again comes back. Clearly the island wants him for something.
    4. Frank KNOWS the plane that was found on the bottom of the ocean was not 815.[/quote]

    I’m not sure this is correct. Ilana came back with more than just Sun, Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Lapidus. Of these, Lapidus is the only name that we’ve not yet seen on the cave or the lighthouse. Which leads me to believe that, though he is important somehow, he’s not a candidate. However, Ilana and Bram did mention something about Lapidus being a candidate, I think, which confuses me.

    Didn’t Sun mention around the campfire last week that she was a candidate? Is she assuming, or did Ilana confirm it?

  30. Rifleste says:

    I am just a little nervous that Sun has a sunset at her back.

  31. Kat says:

    I’m not sure but I think the candidate is Jin because when that Ajira plane crashed the O6 survivors went back in time except for Sun which tells me that she isn’t one of the candidates because all the other candidates went back to 1977 and she didn’t

  32. Tarzan says:

    LOST for Dummies – by Tarzan

    Tarzan not amused. Someone keep taking Tarzan canoe from beach.

    Look for Temple Master too. He not make air after long swim in Temple well.

    Man named Alpert run past Tarzan in jungle. Not even say hello to Tarzan.

    He seem more island crazy than ever before.

    Tarzan see large friend named Hugo too. He always say hello.

    Then again, Tarzan always see Hugo talking. Even when no one near him.

    Tarzan worry for island safety. Many from Temple in danger from shiny head man.

    Tarzan swim and dive for breakfast this morning when friendly shark with tattoo approach Tarzan.

    Shark know that Tarzan able make talk with animal friends.

    Shark tell Tarzan new shiny metal boat from bottom of ocean arrive to hurt island.

    Tarzan thank shark and ask to tell all creatures from ocean about danger.

    Shark sniff Tarzan breakfast – then swim away.

    Tarzan soon run to secret hide spot where Tarzan keep weapons for battle.

    Hope to save Temple friends from danger battle that sure to come.

    Think that Tarzan old girlfriend Llana will help with island fight too, once Tarzan find where she hiding.

  33. Pterradon says:

    For all that are recording tonight’s episode, it runs for 1 hour and 2 minutes.

  34. Mona L. says:

    The girl’s name – Ilana – \i-la-na\ is pronounced ee-LAHN-ah. Of Danish & Hebrew origin. In Hawaiian its meaning is “sunshine”. In Hebrew it is “tree”, or a name given to girls born on the Jewish holiday “The New Year of the Trees”.

    Ilana has 12 variant forms: Elana, Elanit, Eleana, Eleanna, Ilane, Ilania, Ilanit, Ileana, Ileanna, Iliana, Ilianna and Illa.

    Baby names that sound like Ilana are Alana, Ilona, Ilena and Iolana.

  35. Super Obtuse says:

    [quote comment="372795"]Me and my Llana
    me and my Llana
    are going to the dentist today….[/quote]

    Actually, if we’re going for 100% accuracy – It would be Illana and I are going to the dentist today. :) Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

  36. Mustachio says:

    So…if Jacob has been watching all the candidates since they were born, then wouldn’t Sun’s name on the lighthouse wheel be Paik not Kwon? Or are we to assume that Jacob used his eraser to change it when she was wed?

  37. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372811"]
    I think that Sun is the candidate. In the hospital Jacob gives Ilana a list of the six remaining candidates. She comes back to the island with SUN, Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley and…? I think number six might be Frank. Here is why-
    1.He was supposed to fly the original plane. Plane crashed and one of the first things Smokie did is to go look for the pilot. Realizing it was not number 6/ candidate Frank he kills the pilot.
    [/quote]

    Sun and Frank may well be candidates, but we know that Sawyer’s name was on the wheel and cave too, and he was not on the flight. Also, Kate’s name was on both, but she was not one of “the” numbers.

    I think the identity of the candidates is this year’s version of “who are the Oceanic 6?”

    : ) P

  38. DanFarradayFan says:

    People are mentioning Jacob giving Illana a list of six candidates; I may be wrong here but I remember her just saying it was six people she needed to protect, not necessarily just candidates, therefore Sun and Jin could have both been on the list. (Assuming I’m remembering this correctly)

  39. Mr $tuart says:

    LOST is so much better with Pam Anderson and Kate Gosselin.

  40. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="372823"]LOST is so much better with Pam Anderson and Kate Gosselin.[/quote]
    Shannon just got voted off the island. That must have been on the flashsideways.

  41. Mr $tuart says:

    MAN, the things they can do with bras these days.

  42. Mr $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372824"][quote comment="372823"]LOST is so much better with Pam Anderson and Kate Gosselin.[/quote]
    Shannon just got voted off the island. That must have been on the flashsideways.[/quote]
    ROFLMAO

  43. Ben says:

    Sun is a slut!

  44. Mr $tuart says:

    NO, CUZ THAT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS. That is hands down the funniest line Sawyer has ever delivered.

  45. Ben says:

    Patchy returns!

  46. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="372829"]Patchy returns![/quote]

    And he lost an eye! Classic!

  47. Snaisy says:

    Oh my gosh! I thought the package was going to be Sun’s and Jin’s daughter. Now I am all confused. Is Charles Widmore part of the good guys? I did see some empathy with Charles when he showed Jin the camera. Charles’ gesture appeared genuine!

    The flash-side-ways got too bloody. I would have liked it if Sun wouldn’t have gotten shot. And I hope there isn’t a clair and kate show down. I think Syaid will not kill his buddies which is nice considering he no longer is able to experience emotions. He’s now a converted psychopath… which is weird since you can’t just ‘turn into’ one and he previously has presented with empathy for others before his death. Anyway…great episode!

  48. Mr $tuart says:

    Wow, no comments. Everybody must be watching V.

  49. PJSander says:

    It wasn’t the most compelling episode, but we definitely downloaded some information.

    Answered – Desmond was “the package” and was what was hidden behind door number one on the sub.

    Confirmed – Smokey can’t travel across water as smoke. Sayid isn’t officially evil just yet.

    Confirmed – Jin and Sun were not married in the FSW.

    Revealed – Keamy and Patchy are both still almost indestructible.

    : ) P

  50. rowjimmy says:

    Isn’t it odd Flocke didn’t notice Widmores men at the beginning.Widmore seems to be tilting towards good guy again

  51. ninny says:

    I don’t know about you but I am really not liking Sayid being a bad guy. I mean, before he was bad but for good reasons (most of the time) but now he just seems BAD.
    Don’t really know what to say, seems like we have analyzed everything to death and now that it is ending there isn’t any point in it anymore. We will find out everything in 6 more episodes :(

  52. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372827"]Sun is a slut![/quote]
    __________________________________
    [quote comment="372825"]MAN, the things they can do with bras these days.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    Hot, hot, hot! Like me some Sun!

  53. DocH says:

    About FLocke on Hydra.

    If bullets go through him, why not just start a fire-fight with the Widmoreans standing in the open on the beach. When he runs out of bullets, why not just turn to Smokey and toss the nearest ‘portable’ sonic fence post about a hundred yards into the jungle and trap those still alive on his side of the beach/fence.

  54. Mr $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372837"]About FLocke on Hydra.

    If bullets go through him, why not just start a fire-fight with the Widmoreans standing in the open on the beach. When he runs out of bullets, why not just turn to Smokey and toss the nearest ‘portable’ sonic fence post about a hundred yards into the jungle and trap those still alive on his side of the beach/fence.[/quote]
    Cuz that would just be ridiculous. LOL

  55. Murphey says:

    I’m glad Desmond is back. It would have been sad if they left that plotline hanging. I wonder if his consiousness can travel to the FSW or something. It was strange how he was on the plane in the first episode of the season but disapeared.

    I wonder if Jacob was referring to Desmond or Widmore when he sent Hurley and Jack to the lighthouse. I think Desmond. It could still be that Widmore doesn’t really work for Jacob and wants the island for himself and also doesn’t want the end of the world so doesn’t work for Flocke either.

  56. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372835"]I don’t know about you but I am really not liking Sayid being a bad guy. I mean, before he was bad but for good reasons (most of the time) but now he just seems BAD.
    Don’t really know what to say, seems like we have analyzed everything to death and now that it is ending there isn’t any point in it anymore. We will find out everything in 6 more episodes :([/quote]
    Sayid may not be totally gone yet who knows?He helped Desmond find his constant. Maybe Desmond helps him find his way back.
    Yes we over analize the show,thats just what we do! :)

  57. rowjimmy says:

    Sun is canidate Kwon she saw herself in the hotel mirror

  58. Mr $tuart says:

    Slow night. Everybody must be watching O’Reilly.

  59. freckles says:

    I liked the episode. I still think jin’s daughter is the package for Jin and Desmond is separate from that. Otherwise Jin and Sun will want to get off the island with MIB.

    I keep trying to figure out when MIB took over Locke. He was apparently in his body off island before he died because he quoted Widmore “a wise man said there’s gonna be a war”. Widmore said that to Locke. He also knew how Locke felt when he was killed. these details were on purpose.

  60. victor says:

    I’m begining to think that Lost is going to be like a fairy tale with a simple moral ending: “Don’t be a hothead idiot”.

    Jack smashing the mirror … Sun ‘I don’t care if the world is ending … I’m not going anywhere’.

    I’m not the only one who gets sick of the kindergarten tantrums, right?

  61. Mr $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372845"]I liked the episode. I still think jin’s daughter is the package for Jin and Desmond is separate from that. Otherwise Jin and Sun will want to get off the island with MIB.

    I keep trying to figure out when MIB took over Locke. He was apparently in his body off island before he died because he quoted Widmore “a wise man said there’s gonna be a war”. Widmore said that to Locke. He also knew how Locke felt when he was killed. these details were on purpose.[/quote]
    If Lil Kwon was the package, Widmore wouldn’t have wasted time showing photos.

    Flocke says a lot of things that only Locke would know or say like when he said, “Don’t tell me what I can’t do.” I don’t think he was Locke when Locke met Widmore.

  62. freckles says:

    Thanks Mr. $tuart for answering my concerns and putting them to rest. I never think things through enough. Now what’s the thought on MIB still needing Claire. He made it clear that he needed Kate to get to jack and Sawyer but what’s his use for Claire? to get to Aaron when he’s off island?

  63. Redhead says:

    Thoughts….During the episode Sun’s maiden name Paik was mentioned a couple of times making me wonder if she is not a candidate but she was the one who saw her reflection. When Jacob visited Ilana in the hospital he asked her if she would help protect the “remaining” candidates and that was what she was preparing for. ABC was notorious for running over 60 min. during the first two seasons and they are doing it again. I always record an extra 5 min just to be sure I get the previews. Fringe is doing it also.

  64. The Kath says:

    [quote comment="372848"]Thanks Mr. $tuart for answering my concerns and putting them to rest. I never think things through enough. Now what’s the thought on MIB still needing Claire. He made it clear that he needed Kate to get to jack and Sawyer but what’s his use for Claire? to get to Aaron when he’s off island?[/quote]

    ***************************************************

    I think the MIB will need Claire to get to Jack with some sort of “she’s your sister” leverage that the MIB be able to prove and help make Jack trust him and thus get him to “the dark side.” Plus Claire might be good for some Kate manipulating still, I don’t think Kate has written Claire off completely yet.

  65. Mateo says:

    Even though Sun saw her reflection I don’t believe she is the Candidate, redhead is right, they mentioned her maiden name “Paik” too many times to tell us they were not married in the FSW. The promo picture has her on the outside of the table, which has so far been telling.
    Maybe the mirror is another symbol, who says its the candidates only? remember, Ben saw his reflection in the microwave and hes not a candidate, well Illana didnt think so.
    This episode was better than I thought it would be.

  66. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372853"]Even though Sun saw her reflection I don’t believe she is the Candidate, redhead is right, they mentioned her maiden name “Paik” too many times to tell us they were not married in the FSW. The promo picture has her on the outside of the table, which has so far been telling.
    Maybe the mirror is another symbol, who says its the candidates only? remember, Ben saw his reflection in the microwave and hes not a candidate, well Illana didnt think so.
    This episode was better than I thought it would be.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Can someone give a quick run down on who has seen their reflection in the FSW?

  67. Sassafras says:

    Wait – didn’t we first see Flocke on Hydra last season? If he can’t just smoke himself across the water how did he get there?

  68. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372855"][quote comment="372853"]Even though Sun saw her reflection I don’t believe she is the Candidate, redhead is right, they mentioned her maiden name “Paik” too many times to tell us they were not married in the FSW. The promo picture has her on the outside of the table, which has so far been telling.
    Maybe the mirror is another symbol, who says its the candidates only? remember, Ben saw his reflection in the microwave and hes not a candidate, well Illana didnt think so.
    This episode was better than I thought it would be.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Can someone give a quick run down on who has seen their reflection in the FSW?[/quote]

    Jack, Kate, Locke, Jack again, Sayid, Ben, Sawyer, and Sun. I don’t remember that Richard saw his reflection anywhere, since it was a FB, not a FSW.

  69. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372856"]Wait – didn’t we first see Flocke on Hydra last season? If he can’t just smoke himself across the water how did he get there?[/quote]

    If he’s in a body he can cross the water (like he did last night). In smoke form, he can not.

    (Six years ago I would not have imagined ever writing a sentence like that.)

  70. WTF says:

    I posted the following on the “Dr Linus” episode:
    WTF
    Comment 99, posted 2 weeks, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Hammer wrote:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.

    ———–
    My first thought was “Is Desmond on the sub w/Widmore?” If my memory serves me, the last time we saw Des (prior to this season on the plane) was in the hospital after Ben shot him. I believe Widmore was there too, outside the hospital when Hawking left. I don’t recall their conversation, but Des got shot trying to protect Penny and in doing so probably (finally) earned Widmore’s respect. It is possible they have now joined forces? Des has to get back sometime, somehow.

    OK, so it was not a joining of forces that brought Desmond w/Widmore…but he is now here and in the “company” of Widmore. What now has me wondering is why it would be important to Jin that Desmond is here? Widmore specifically grabbed Jin from the Flocke camp and put some effort in doing so. He then acted like once Jin saw the “package” he would be willing to co-operate w/Widmore. If he could grab Jin from the heavily armed Flocke camp, could he not have also gotten Sun from the beach camp, especially since she spends time isolating herself from the group in her garden? What makes Jin importnat to Widmore’s plan and what makes Desmond important to Jin?

  71. WTF says:

    [quote comment="372859"]I posted the following on the “Dr Linus” episode:
    WTF
    Comment 99, posted 2 weeks, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Hammer wrote:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.

    ———–

    Sorry, I had meant to preface my beginning comments in post 70 with:
    The following is what I posted back on the Dr.Linus episode posts:
    My first thought was “Is Desmond on the sub w/Widmore?” If my memory serves me, the last time we saw Des (prior to this season on the plane) was in the hospital after Ben shot him. I believe Widmore was there too, outside the hospital when Hawking left. I don’t recall their conversation, but Des got shot trying to protect Penny and in doing so probably (finally) earned Widmore’s respect. It is possible they have now joined forces? Des has to get back sometime, somehow.

    OK, so it was not a joining of forces that brought Desmond w/Widmore…but he is now here and in the “company” of Widmore. What now has me wondering is why it would be important to Jin that Desmond is here? Widmore specifically grabbed Jin from the Flocke camp and put some effort in doing so. He then acted like once Jin saw the “package” he would be willing to co-operate w/Widmore. If he could grab Jin from the heavily armed Flocke camp, could he not have also gotten Sun from the beach camp, especially since she spends time isolating herself from the group in her garden? What makes Jin importnat to Widmore’s plan and what makes Desmond important to Jin?[/quote]

  72. HollyP says:

    This episode confirms that Jacob touched the candidates in the original timeline, as he touched Sun & Jin at their wedding but they weren’t married in FSW.

    I am still considering BOTH Kwons candidates, as a unit. Jacob touched them both, when he could have touched just one. He didn’t make any attempted to reach out to Nadia with Sayid.

    I also considered that Lil’ Kwon is on the package. However, just knowing that Little Kwon exists is enough to make Jin want to keep evil on the island. Showing Jin the photo of Sun & the baby proves she exists.

  73. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372859"]I posted the following on the “Dr Linus” episode:
    WTF
    Comment 99, posted 2 weeks, 6 days ago – Quote and reply
    Hammer wrote:

    Bedtime for Bonzo:

    Is there daycare on that sub? I think Widmore was the one trying to get custody of Aaron…wonder if Aaron is with Widmore.

    ———–
    My first thought was “Is Desmond on the sub w/Widmore?” If my memory serves me, the last time we saw Des (prior to this season on the plane) was in the hospital after Ben shot him. I believe Widmore was there too, outside the hospital when Hawking left. I don’t recall their conversation, but Des got shot trying to protect Penny and in doing so probably (finally) earned Widmore’s respect. It is possible they have now joined forces? Des has to get back sometime, somehow.

    OK, so it was not a joining of forces that brought Desmond w/Widmore…but he is now here and in the “company” of Widmore. What now has me wondering is why it would be important to Jin that Desmond is here? Widmore specifically grabbed Jin from the Flocke camp and put some effort in doing so. He then acted like once Jin saw the “package” he would be willing to co-operate w/Widmore. If he could grab Jin from the heavily armed Flocke camp, could he not have also gotten Sun from the beach camp, especially since she spends time isolating herself from the group in her garden? What makes Jin importnat to Widmore’s plan and what makes Desmond important to Jin?[/quote]

    I think originally Jin was brought to confirm the locations of the electromagnetic energy, but just like FLocke, I believe Widmore is recruiting for either himself or team Jacob…after his comments last night im leaning towards team Jacob….not necessarily sure Des has anything to do with Jin, I think Widmore was just wanting to show Jin his “secret weapon”.

    And I swear Keamy and patchy must be eating some super wheaties cuz they never die!

  74. Jimbo says:

    Is it just me or did Syaid look like Rambo when he swam up to the dock.

  75. EnuffAlready says:

    [quote comment="372862"] I think originally Jin was brought to confirm the locations of the electromagnetic energy, but just like FLocke, I believe Widmore is recruiting for either himself or team Jacob…after his comments last night im leaning towards team Jacob… [/quote]

    I agree that it seems Widmore is on Team Jacob. Has he always been? Has he spent all these years, and all that money, trying to get back to the Island in order to help Jacob protect the island from MIB?

    If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    Also, Ben and Widmore discussed “the rules.” But I think these were different rules (aka, not killing each others’ daughters) than Jacob and MIB’s rules (not killing each other, or candidates).

  76. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372864"][quote comment="372862"] I think originally Jin was brought to confirm the locations of the electromagnetic energy, but just like FLocke, I believe Widmore is recruiting for either himself or team Jacob…after his comments last night im leaning towards team Jacob… [/quote]

    I agree that it seems Widmore is on Team Jacob. Has he always been? Has he spent all these years, and all that money, trying to get back to the Island in order to help Jacob protect the island from MIB?

    If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    Also, Ben and Widmore discussed “the rules.” But I think these were different rules (aka, not killing each others’ daughters) than Jacob and MIB’s rules (not killing each other, or candidates).[/quote]

    I’ve been thinking about that as well….What I have come up with is that I dont think Jacob had anything to do with Ben and Widmores feud, I think it was more along the lines of Ben the school teacher going after the principals job…I think a young Ben Linus knew secrets about Charles Widmore and used them to gain Charles’ power and title, which then leads me to believe that Charles has actually spoken to Jacob because he knows about the MIB and what can happen if he is released from the island and Ben is somewhat clueless. simply a pawn.

  77. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372865"][quote comment="372864"][quote comment="372862"] I think originally Jin was brought to confirm the locations of the electromagnetic energy, but just like FLocke, I believe Widmore is recruiting for either himself or team Jacob…after his comments last night im leaning towards team Jacob… [/quote]

    I agree that it seems Widmore is on Team Jacob. Has he always been? Has he spent all these years, and all that money, trying to get back to the Island in order to help Jacob protect the island from MIB?

    If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    Also, Ben and Widmore discussed “the rules.” But I think these were different rules (aka, not killing each others’ daughters) than Jacob and MIB’s rules (not killing each other, or candidates).[/quote]

    I’ve been thinking about that as well….What I have come up with is that I dont think Jacob had anything to do with Ben and Widmores feud, I think it was more along the lines of Ben the school teacher going after the principals job…I think a young Ben Linus knew secrets about Charles Widmore and used them to gain Charles’ power and title, which then leads me to believe that Charles has actually spoken to Jacob because he knows about the MIB and what can happen if he is released from the island and Ben is somewhat clueless. simply a pawn.[/quote]

    Agreed. It does seem likely that Jacob has visited Widmore, if only because Widmore knows so much for someone who hasn’t been on the island in 30 years. Interesting that after their long feud, Widmore and Ben may now work together for a common cause. Can’t wait for THAT scene!

  78. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372845"]I keep trying to figure out when MIB took over Locke. He was apparently in his body off island before he died because he quoted Widmore “a wise man said there’s gonna be a war”. Widmore said that to Locke. He also knew how Locke felt when he was killed. these details were on purpose.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Couldn’t that just be from Smokey’s ability to scan someone and know what they’ve done and said?

  79. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372856"]Wait – didn’t we first see Flocke on Hydra last season? If he can’t just smoke himself across the water how did he get there?[/quote]
    The outrigger.

  80. FrankS says:

    Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.

    Someone above commented that it’s clear Jacob touched candidates in “original” timeline. I’m curious about the assumption that that was the “original” timeline. Could FSW be the original timeline and island scenes be the alternate?

    Also, now assuming that Widmore is on the Team Jacob, Widmore’s exile from island was (1) either orchestrated by MIB via Ben and/or (2) was part of Jacob’s long con all along.

  81. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372862"] …not necessarily sure Des has anything to do with Jin, I think Widmore was just wanting to show Jin his “secret weapon”. [/quote]

    I’m confused about Des’ importance at this point. We’ve been told in the past that the “rules” don’t apply to him, and that the island isn’t finished with him. Widmore seemed to imply that seeing Des would be important to JIN, specifically. But I think Des isn’t likely to be eager to help Widmore after being drugged and locked up by him.

    And what was the relevance of Zoe pushing up Widmore’s “timeline” by capturing Jin too early?

    (And why is it that all of the women they bring to the island happen to have cleavage shirts? Cover them things up, Zoe!)

  82. sector7 says:

    The big question now is why does Widmore need a geophysicist and what is his intentions for the electromagnetic pockets?

  83. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.

    Someone above commented that it’s clear Jacob touched candidates in “original” timeline. I’m curious about the assumption that that was the “original” timeline. Could FSW be the original timeline and island scenes be the alternate?

    Also, now assuming that Widmore is on the Team Jacob, Widmore’s exile from island was (1) either orchestrated by MIB via Ben and/or (2) was part of Jacob’s long con all along.[/quote]
    More evidence that MIB was manipulating the Others during that time.

  84. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.[/quote]

    There is. Pretty much everything drives the story. The fact that Sun can’t speak English, but still understands it, will play a part in what is to come.

    : ) P

  85. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372864"][quote comment="372862"] I think originally Jin was brought to confirm the locations of the electromagnetic energy, but just like FLocke, I believe Widmore is recruiting for either himself or team Jacob…after his comments last night im leaning towards team Jacob… [/quote]

    I agree that it seems Widmore is on Team Jacob. Has he always been? Has he spent all these years, and all that money, trying to get back to the Island in order to help Jacob protect the island from MIB?

    If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    Also, Ben and Widmore discussed “the rules.” But I think these were different rules (aka, not killing each others’ daughters) than Jacob and MIB’s rules (not killing each other, or candidates).[/quote]

    Back after the Sundown (Sayid’s) episode, I proposed that Ben, while leader of the others, may not have been acting in Jacob’s interest but deceiving the others and furthering his own agenda. That may have been what put him at odds with Widmore in the first place. Here is what I said then, and I still think I believe it about Ben:

    [\quote]
    Comment 250, posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago – Quote and reply

    [\quote] Re: “I don’t believe Ben ever worked for Jacob”:

    I think it’s been established that the Others – Ben, Richard, Dogen, at al – that whole clan – work for Jacob. That’s what they’re there for… [\quote]

    I agree that clearly Ben was working for Jacob, but did he “go rogue” and do some things that Jacob did not request?

    Some examples:

    Taking John Locke to the cabin

    Shooting him and leaving him for dead in the Dharma mass grave

    Turning the wheel and leaving the island

    Going through Jacob’s “list”, and having people on the list murdered while off the island

    Murdering John Locke off the island

    Killing Jacob (of course)

    I even wonder — his mass murder of the Dharmites — was that ordered by Jacob? Maybe it was but I don’t really know.

    I think these things provide evidence that Ben was not always a good follower of Jacob, and acted in his own interest sometimes. It is possible that by acting in “his own interest”, he let himself be manipulated by MIB or at least unknowingly contribute to his agenda? An obvious example — stabbing Jacob, but other actions also contributed to his agenda.

    Also, recall how Ben knew how to summon “Smokie”, and also the magic closet. Was the magic closet something all the “Others” knew about, or was it something Ben discovered on his own, perhaps in the process playing into the hands of MIB? Recall how Ben said the closet could make whatever you wish appear, and Locke made his kidney-stealing deadbeat father appear. The “whatever you wish” idea sounds very MIB, not very Jacob.

    It is clear Ben worked for Jacob, but I just wonder if by acting on his own for his own interests, he was deceived by MIB and fell under his influence, eventually betraying Jacob? Sort of like Judas in the story of Jesus?

    [\quote]

  86. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372871"]The big question now is why does Widmore need a geophysicist and what is his intentions for the electromagnetic pockets?[/quote]

    Was the electromagnetism part of what kept the MIB in check and, when they failed to enter the numbers, did the subsequent release in energy destroy one of the fences keeping MIB on the island?

    Remember, they were told that by entering the numbers, they were “saving the world”

  87. cesco says:

    I’m thinking the electromagnetic pockets are like shackles for MIB or can empower MIB, either way they need to be kept safe, which is why Widmore is searching for them. I’m also speculating that both the U.S. army and the Dharma initiative were purged for meddling with the so-called pockets.

  88. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372871"]The big question now is why does Widmore need a geophysicist and what is his intentions for the electromagnetic pockets?[/quote]

    I think this brings up another point. Several people have discussed the fact that Ben and Widmore seem to be on the same side. They do appear to both be against FLocke, but that doesn’t really put them on the same side. They are united against a common enemy.

    Widmore clearly has ulterior motives for having control of the island. If “beating” FLocke is part of that, then that moves Jacob’s cause forward.

    Ben’s motivation has always seemed to be control of the island or power in general. Beating FLocke is part of that.

    : ) P

  89. Bacon Is My Constant says:

    [quote comment="372870"][quote comment="372862"] …not necessarily sure Des has anything to do with Jin, I think Widmore was just wanting to show Jin his “secret weapon”. [/quote]

    I’m confused about Des’ importance at this point. We’ve been told in the past that the “rules” don’t apply to him, and that the island isn’t finished with him. Widmore seemed to imply that seeing Des would be important to JIN, specifically. But I think Des isn’t likely to be eager to help Widmore after being drugged and locked up by him.

    And what was the relevance of Zoe pushing up Widmore’s “timeline” by capturing Jin too early?

    [/quote]

    Maybe Des was going to do something before being brought to Jin? Play more of a role I mean than just drowsily being dragged to Room 23.
    I dunno. I got nuthin’. :-)

  90. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372873"][quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.[/quote]

    There is. Pretty much everything drives the story. The fact that Sun can’t speak English, but still understands it, will play a part in what is to come.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Yeah, I took the playing cards as a reminder of Faraday…temporal yuckity yuck. Sun may be the next nose bleeding messenger (linking the two timelines).

  91. Florida In July says:

    [quote comment="372871"]The big question now is why does Widmore need a geophysicist and what is his intentions for the electromagnetic pockets?[/quote]
    _____________

    Probably to blow-up the island. Or prevent it from being sunk as we saw on “LA X.” I am guessing Smokey errr FLocke err MIB not only wants to escape the island, but wants/needs to destroy it (to make sure he can never be sent/put back [see Twilight Zone's "The Howling Man"]). Recall the scene with the MIB breaking the wine bottle…

  92. Florida In July says:

    [quote comment="372879"][quote comment="372873"][quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.[/quote]

    There is. Pretty much everything drives the story. The fact that Sun can’t speak English, but still understands it, will play a part in what is to come.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Yeah, I took the playing cards as a reminder of Faraday…temporal yuckity yuck. Sun may be the next nose bleeding messenger (linking the two timelines).[/quote]
    __________

    That is what I was thinking specially if you recall Sun running from FLocke and hitting her head -suddenly where back to FSW. I am guessing at some point (as many have said) these two “realities” have to be reconciled and Sun speaking only Korean is a bit like these two realities meshing together.

    ps. Hammer April 1st is coming up I hope you and the gang don’t boycott err “disappear” for the week like last year.

  93. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372881"][quote comment="372879"][quote comment="372873"][quote comment="372869"][/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    ps. Hammer April 1st is coming up I hope you and the gang don’t boycott err “disappear” for the week like last year.[/quote]
    LOL, good intentions gone bad. ;)

  94. Florida In July says:

    [quote comment="372865"][quote comment="372864"][quote comment="372862"]
    I dont think Jacob had anything to do with Ben and Widmores feud, I think it was more along the lines of Ben the school teacher going after the principals job…I think a young Ben Linus knew secrets about Charles Widmore and used them to gain Charles’ power and title [/quote]

    _______
    Brilliant! This makes perfect sense. I would only add MIB’s hands are pretty much all over this, trying to break up Jacob’s chosen people -The Others.

    Same with the purge (and other “bad” events people have been attributing to Jacob), if you recall Jacob was very clear to Ricardus that he did not want to personally interact with the people he brings to the island. Now he tells Ricardus he will use him as a “middleman” but I am sure Ricardus has no power to summon Jacob whenever he wishes. Creating a sort of power vaccum or at the very least an opening for the MIB to currupt Ricardus and the Others. Remember that the “devils” whole schtick is not letting you know he/she/it is there…

  95. Florida In July says:

    Same with the purge (and other “bad” events people have been attributing to Jacob), if you recall Jacob was very clear to Ricardus that he did not want to personally interact with the people he brings to the island. Now he tells Ricardus he will use him as a “middleman” but I am sure Ricardus has no power to summon Jacob whenever he wishes. Creating a sort of power vaccum or at the very least an opening for the MIB to currupt Ricardus and the Others. Remember that the “devils” whole schtick is not letting you know he/she/it is there…

  96. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.

    .[/quote]

    Does there really NEED to be a reason?
    It’s very interesting to me though.
    Maybe so all the hicks can wake up and see that other languages are spoken out there in the world.
    I’m sure there’s a lot of folks in their trailers mumbling oaths any time they hear Korean or Arabic spoken. I have one such relative.
    People who say; I hate to watch movies with subtitles.
    When I hear that I think; wow, no Bergman, no Fellini…no Kurosawa…so sad really.

    I thought this episode was amazing…
    of course I’d been saying how much I missed the bad guys for a while.
    And here we get both barrels. Keamy and Patchy.
    The editing and changes between stories was the best ever…what I’ve always loved about the show; as masterful as the best Kubrick. Moody and strange like David Lynch except with a plot…ha.

    Now I feel a guilty for doubting the show.
    If they can keep the show moving on at even half the quality of this episode I’ll be happy.
    I even liked Jack in this episode.

    Ben seems to be reverting to his asshole side again. Ilana is gonna take only so much and she’s gonna smack him one soon.

    I’m just knocked out by the actors; Widmore and Flocke; such powerful presence…and really, everybody else was great. It’s sooooo damn refreshing to see Asian actors getting good parts…long F-ing overdue.
    I’m Anglo & Native American…still waiting for the Indians to take some of that Casino money and make some art with Native Americans. Can’t wait for the Kevin Costers to do it all.

    Keamy is so good at bad…scary as hell. I bet he has a gf someplace who laughs knowing what a sweetie he really is in real life.
    And Patchy; I hope he makes even another return…I bet he didn’t die when we thought he did from that grenade at the submerged Station. He very well could have survived as the water would absorb a lot of the impact of the grenade and maybe he was only wounded.
    I also want more of Sun’s father; super creepy character. Hope Sun will do him in herself.

    Sun is the antidote to fake sexy like Pamela Anderson. Beauty AND brains without the implants.
    Eastern thought has expressed it before; Less is More….sometimes.
    And Sayid is the newer, better Rambo; brains and brawn.
    Maybe Widmore plans to blow up the Island(s) to do away with Smokey forever?

    Off subject but I need to bitch some;
    I watch the show online as I never watch TV. ABC.com ran a boring commercial for a stupid looking new series…but they ran it over and over. I guess brain washing works for the masses but for me; it insured that I will never look at that show.
    It’s weird; on the one hand they have LOST with all it’s intelligence…but they insult me by beating me over the head with one of the worst looking previews ever…and like 6 times.
    Why not an ABC series on American Indians? The new shows look like SciFi & Horror retreads.

  97. Mr. $tuart says:

    If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.

  98. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372879"][quote comment="372873"][quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.[/quote]

    There is. Pretty much everything drives the story. The fact that Sun can’t speak English, but still understands it, will play a part in what is to come.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Yeah, I took the playing cards as a reminder of Faraday…temporal yuckity yuck. Sun may be the next nose bleeding messenger (linking the two timelines).[/quote]
    ********************
    I think they are showing us the two timelines are more connected than we think…maybe even interconnected!

    still love the course corrections…patchy’s eye!

  99. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    My current take is that Ben and Widmore’s feud was between them fighting to ‘corrupt’ the island and for their own power. IMO, they were/are on the side of stopping MIB from ruining everything for them. Helping Jacob’s side at this point is for survival.

  100. dadman says:

    And we finally got the truth(?) about Sun’s pregnancy…
    Thoughts?

  101. Miss lost says:

    So everyone is still dividing up the sides as Jacob vs MIB/Flocke. Wondering if Ben and Widmore will unite on a side. I think PJ said it best…they are not friends but they will unite to defeat a common enemy.

    Not trying to beat a dead horse but maybe the side they are on is the islands. Jacob was protector of the island that was holding MIB there.

    Widmore may want that power or the power he once had but knows the devestation that will occur if Flocke gets off the island. Pretty harsh words he said to Jin…if he gets off all our loved ones are dead…or something along those lines.

  102. Florida In July says:

    [quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…

  103. Hammer says:

    Oh, and if there was any doubt left about whether or not MIB is evil…MIB telling Claire in so many words that she can take her revenge (totally unjustified) on Kate once MIB gets what he wants…hmmmm.

    I completely expected Claire was going to ask MIB why he hasn’t paid up (getting Aaron back to her) in that scene. Why she keeps letting him lie to her is beyond me.

  104. Florida In July says:

    [quote comment="372892"]Oh, and if there was any doubt left about whether or not MIB is evil…MIB telling Claire in so many words that she can take her revenge (totally unjustified) on Kate once MIB gets what he wants…hmmmm.

    I completely expected Claire was going to ask MIB why he hasn’t paid up (getting Aaron back to her) in that scene. Why she keeps letting him lie to her is beyond me.[/quote]
    _______________

    I really like the tension between Kate and Claire as if it could happen at any time (Claire on Kate violence) now at least we have a time-table for it. MIB would be the perfect Survivor player seeing how he will tell you exactly what you want to hear…

  105. Pterradon says:

    Smokie can’t go over water. I wonder what happens to him if he goes in the water. Does he melt and die? Is the only way to kill him by sinking the entire island.

    He can travel over water in a boat. I wonder how he would do under water in a sub.

  106. LostGator says:

    Everyone,

    Prepare to mock me, because at least what I heard was very shocking and no one else has discussed. When Zoe “snatches” Jin, I thought she told her compatriot “that’s him, that’s Jacob”. Which of course is HUGE, since he is the only one Team Widmore grabs, even though they could have taken other candidates (Sawyer, etc).

    Or she said Jin and I need to stop having that beer during the show.

  107. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="372861"]
    I am still considering BOTH Kwons candidates, as a unit. Jacob touched them both, when he could have touched just one. He didn’t make any attempted to reach out to Nadia with Sayid.
    [/quote]

    Both Kwons as possible candidates leaves open that possibility that one could die. I hope not, but there it is. It could happen without upsetting any plans or theories.

    It was also interesting that Flocke extended his hand to Sun same as he did with Kate. Both denied him. He was 10 yards at best behind Sun when she got knocked out but yet didn’t carry her off. She wasn’t willing and he couldn’t take her.

    On a separate note, I am a little stumped on how Richard didn’t recognize Flocke for who he was until after he saw real Locke’s body. Richard’s reaction to seeing Flocke as MIB for the first time made me think MIB has done this before. Flocke and Richard had a lot of interaction before that scene. Why didn’t Richard figure it out until then?

  108. IAmNotMIB says:

    [quote comment="372896"]Everyone,

    Prepare to mock me, because at least what I heard was very shocking and no one else has discussed. When Zoe “snatches” Jin, I thought she told her compatriot “that’s him, that’s Jacob”. Which of course is HUGE, since he is the only one Team Widmore grabs, even though they could have taken other candidates (Sawyer, etc).

    Or she said Jin and I need to stop having that beer during the show.[/quote]

    I thought the same thing and had to re-watch a couple of times. She said “Let’s take him.” I think.

  109. IAmNotMIB says:

    Any thoughts on the following dialogue when Sawyer and Kate are discussing Locke?

    Sawyer: Cause if Locke rowed over in the boat with Sayid, then Charlie Widmore blew him right out of the water.

    Kate: And what if he didn’t?

    Sawyer: Then we’re screwed six ways from Sun.

    Not… “Six ways from Sunday…”

  110. wally p says:

    Widmore knows all he needs to know… think back to the Constant episode, when he induced Desmonds flip with the running faucet… This guy has a plan for everything. Major rule if you wanna get ahead on Lost island,… always have a plan…

    Widmore might be the tightest character on the show. He knows exactly what he wants to do, and how to do it… even MIB gets off on an awkward tip now and then… (drat drat and double drat!)…

    anyway, I like seeing MIB slowly building up steam here, he’s getting mad now. So, in order for his plan to work correctly he needs to LEAVE with the six candidates, am I right? He needs to leave as Locke, alive and still candidate #4 on the wheel, Locke, yes? I feel thats what they were telling me last night…

  111. LostGrrl says:

    Best line of the night:

    Ben: ”Why don’t you believe me?” Ilana: ”Because you’re speaking.”

  112. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372900"]Widmore knows all he needs to know… think back to the Constant episode, when he induced Desmonds flip with the running faucet… This guy has a plan for everything. Major rule if you wanna get ahead on Lost island,… always have a plan…

    Widmore might be the tightest character on the show. He knows exactly what he wants to do, and how to do it… even MIB gets off on an awkward tip now and then… (drat drat and double drat!)…

    anyway, I like seeing MIB slowly building up steam here, he’s getting mad now. So, in order for his plan to work correctly he needs to LEAVE with the six candidates, am I right? He needs to leave as Locke, alive and still candidate #4 on the wheel, Locke, yes?

    I feel thats what they were telling me last night…[/quote]
    ************8
    But he crossed Lockes name off on the cave wall…so not sure if there are really 6 anymore…unless Jin and Sun are both still candidates!

  113. LostGrrl says:

    Regarding mirror images… BOTH Jin and Sun saw their reflections last night: Sun in the mirror in the hotel room, Jin in the cooler door at the restaurant.

    Not sure if this tells us anything about which is a candidate, since Ben also saw his reflection in his FSW and (we think!) is not a candidate.

  114. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372804"][quote comment="372803"][quote comment="372802"]“the package”…is this what Jin was delivering in FSW?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Could be what Widmore brought with him on the sub.[/quote]
    ********
    didn’t think about that….now I hope that is what “the package” is![/quote]
    *********
    great guess! When they were going to get the package my husband and I were like Des or Aaron? Leaning towards Des since we knew the island was not done with him yet!
    So did Widmore have to drug him to get him to go (meaning against his will)?

  115. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372904"][quote comment="372804"][quote comment="372803"][quote comment="372802"]“the package”…is this what Jin was delivering in FSW?[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Could be what Widmore brought with him on the sub.[/quote]
    ********
    didn’t think about that….now I hope that is what “the package” is![/quote]
    *********
    great guess! When they were going to get the package my husband and I were like Des or Aaron? Leaning towards Des since we knew the island was not done with him yet!
    So did Widmore have to drug him to get him to go (meaning against his will)?[/quote]
    ___________________________________________
    Yeah, he looked like he’d obviously been kidnapped.

  116. Mateo says:

    There def is something to Flocke putting out his hand. So far Sawyer, Kate & Sun didnt take his hand. Cant remember if Sayid did or not.

  117. Jaime says:

    [quote comment="372906"]There def is something to Flocke putting out his hand. So far Sawyer, Kate & Sun didnt take his hand. Cant remember if Sayid did or not.[/quote]
    ******************************************

    I was thinking that it might be another way that he “scans” people for thier memories, feelings, and thoughts. When he is in Locke form he has to touch them. Just a guess

  118. Miss lost says:

    On the subject of if flocke touched sayid…I don’t think we saw them shake hands, but we do know that Sayid did go do his dirty work for him and killed Dogan.

    I am leaning towards thinking they may have shook hands to seal the deal. Sayid made a comment about having NO feelings…not happy, sad, angry…nothing! Flocke said GOOD!. So, is this the infection spreading or what the touch does to you?

    Claire seems different than Sayid in this regard. She is emotional and angry…why the difference?

  119. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”

  120. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372909"][quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”[/quote]

    What I mean is that she may have meant that MIB hadn’t been there for a long time? Maybe the shack was where he was imprisoned?

  121. Mr $tuart says:

    What I mean is that she may have meant that MIB hadn’t been there for a long time? Maybe the shack was where he was imprisoned?

    **********************************************

    Wasn’t there a circle of ash around the cabin that had been broken up?

  122. Florida In July says:

    [quote comment="372910"][quote comment="372909"][quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”[/quote]

    What I mean is that she may have meant that MIB hadn’t been there for a long time? Maybe the shack was where he was imprisoned?[/quote]
    ___________

    I see your point. But I would argue why did she go there first if not to warn Jacob/the Others of FLocke/MIB. They were carrying Locke’s body for a reason. It would not make sense to go see MIB first, given they know guns can’t hurt him…

    Also recall Ilana got a piece of the quilt (or similar material Jacob was knitting inside the foot of the statute) from inside the cabin. I took this to be a “sign” from Jacob letting Ilana know where he (Jacob) was…

  123. Florida In July says:

    ps. I am not saying MIB was never in the cabin. Again it makes sense that MIB was in the cabin (at some point) impersonating Jacob to eventually find the loophole through Ben/Locke. It just seems that the real Jacob was also in the cabin at some point (at least Ilana thought so)…

  124. Florida In July says:

    pss.

    BRAM: What happened?

    ILANA: He isn’t there, hasn’t been in a long time. Someone else has been using it. [Shouting to her team] Burn it!

    LAPIDUS: I’m no tree hugger or anything, but that’s a pretty good way to torch the whole jungle, don’t you think?

    [Glass shatters, whoosh]

    BRAM: So what now?

    [Ilana hands Bram the tapestry fragment.]

    BRAM: Well, I guess we know where we’re going.

  125. Miraks says:

    Ilana said that [quote comment="372909"][quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”[/quote]

    Well, she also said that someone else had been using it. So, if the “he” she was looking for and that had “not been there in a long time” was Jacob, it would mean that MIB had been using it- which would make sense. i.e it was MIB that talked to Locke when he came in with Ben. PPlus we saw Claire in there with Christian.

  126. Florida In July says:

    [quote comment="372915"]Ilana said that [quote comment="372909"][quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”[/quote]

    Well, she also said that someone else had been using it. So, if the “he” she was looking for and that had “not been there in a long time” was Jacob, it would mean that MIB had been using it- which would make sense. i.e it was MIB that talked to Locke when he came in with Ben. PPlus we saw Claire in there with Christian.[/quote]
    ________________

    would you say “Christian” is thus the MIB…

  127. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="372916"][quote comment="372915"]Ilana said that [quote comment="372909"][quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”[/quote]

    Well, she also said that someone else had been using it. So, if the “he” she was looking for and that had “not been there in a long time” was Jacob, it would mean that MIB had been using it- which would make sense. i.e it was MIB that talked to Locke when he came in with Ben. PPlus we saw Claire in there with Christian.[/quote]
    ________________

    would you say “Christian” is thus the MIB…[/quote]
    Christians body might be what MIB was using before the body of one of the candidates became “available”. But considering we saw him with “weird” Claire, I don’t think he is on Jacob’s side. Remember he also send Ben out with the donkey wheel to get the candidates back to the island.

  128. dealer says:

    so no one is questioning why flocke didn’t catch sun after she hit her head? no one found that strange? and you guys all think ben didn’t see flocke? ben didn’t talk to flocke?

    as ilana said “cuz you’re speaking” when ben asks her why she thinks he’s lying.

  129. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="372918"][quote comment="372916"][quote comment="372915"]Ilana said that [quote comment="372909"][quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]If so, who’s side was Ben on? Ben and Widmore feuded famously for decades. They were definitely not on the same side. This leads me to believe that it really WAS MIB in Jacob’s cabin, pretending to be Jacob when he talked to Ben and told him what to do. (So then was it MIB who convinced Ben to kill the DI and lead the Others.)

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    Ben never talked to Jacob or MIB in the cabin. He never heard anything. Remember when he shot Locke cuz Locke heard Jacob say help me and he didn’t.[/quote]
    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”[/quote]

    Well, she also said that someone else had been using it. So, if the “he” she was looking for and that had “not been there in a long time” was Jacob, it would mean that MIB had been using it- which would make sense. i.e it was MIB that talked to Locke when he came in with Ben. PPlus we saw Claire in there with Christian.[/quote]
    ________________

    would you say “Christian” is thus the MIB…[/quote]
    Christians body might be what MIB was using before the body of one of the candidates became “available”. But considering we saw him with “weird” Claire, I don’t think he is on Jacob’s side. Remember he also send Ben out with the donkey wheel to get the candidates back to the island.[/quote]
    ******************************

    Not so sure MIB=Christian….I think Christian is going to play a pretty big part of the finale…MIB took over Lockes likeness, but not his body, as proven by Ilana and Brahm. We have never seen Christians body, it was lost when the plane first crashed on the island, its lost in the FSW…I think Christian may be resurrected somehow and we will have a Jack/Christian confrontation….the fact that we have never found his body is just too strange to me and I feel like MIB=Christian would be too simple of an answer from the writers of LOST

  130. Guttahman says:

    And I am so sorry about that ^^^^^^^^^^^

    Didnt know the quote was so long! LOL

  131. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372900"]anyway, I like seeing MIB slowly building up steam here, he’s getting mad now. So, in order for his plan to work correctly he needs to LEAVE with the six candidates, am I right? He needs to leave as Locke, alive and still candidate #4 on the wheel, Locke, yes?[/quote]

    I am not sure he has to leave “with all six” candidates. I think that in order to get off the island, he has to remove any potential candidates – whatever remaining candidates there might be. Jacob is gone, so if he can get the candidates to leave… he is free, too.

    Side note: Kate is NOT dead. And to my knowledge, her number was not crossed off (though Flocke told Claire she was no longer a candidate). We are thinking that she is not a candidate because her number wasn’t one of THE numbers. Who knows if that is true?

    [quote comment="372919"]so no one is questioning why flocke didn’t catch sun after she hit her head? no one found that strange? and you guys all think ben didn’t see flocke? ben didn’t talk to flocke?[/quote]

    Here is my take: Flocke has to get the candidates to LEAVE WILLINGLY. Kidnapping Sun was NOT going to work. IMO he chased her because he wanted to convince her.

    I think that once Flocke knew he couldn’t talk an unconscious women into something, he left. I felt like Ben arrived long after Sun knocked her head, so I don’t think there was a chance that he would have crossed paths with Flocke.

    : ) P

  132. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="372919"]so no one is questioning why flocke didn’t catch sun after she hit her head? no one found that strange? and you guys all think ben didn’t see flocke? ben didn’t talk to flocke?

    as ilana said “cuz you’re speaking” when ben asks her why she thinks he’s lying.[/quote]

    No – I think MIB can’t take Sun against her free will. If he grabbed (kidnapped) her when she was unconscious, perhaps it would break a rule.

    And I don’t think Ben saw MIB. I really do believe that (for now) Ben is completely sincere about his new alliance.

  133. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372923"][quote comment="372919"]so no one is questioning why flocke didn’t catch sun after she hit her head? no one found that strange? and you guys all think ben didn’t see flocke? ben didn’t talk to flocke?

    as ilana said “cuz you’re speaking” when ben asks her why she thinks he’s lying.[/quote]

    No – I think MIB can’t take Sun against her free will. If he grabbed (kidnapped) her when she was unconscious, perhaps it would break a rule.

    And I don’t think Ben saw MIB. I really do believe that (for now) Ben is completely sincere about his new alliance.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I don’t believe Ben is completely sincere about anything.

  134. sector7 says:

    So if the plane can take off why didn’t they do that right after they landed? My assumption was that the plane was damaged to the point that it could not take off. Anyone know what Lapidus said about the planes status after they landed?

  135. Florida in July says:

    [quote comment="372886"]Christians body might be what MIB was using before the body of one of the candidates became “available”. But considering we saw him with “weird” Claire, I don’t think he is on Jacob’s side. Remember he also send Ben out with the donkey wheel to get the candidates back to the island.[/quote]
    _______

    I just keep thinking about one of the verizon mobile mini-episodes (the last one I believe) when Christian sends the dog off to wake up Jack pre-episode 1, telling him he has plenty of work to do. I guess you can interpret that as being helping the MIB with the loophole… As Guttaha mentioned I just don’t see Christian as simply being an apparition of the MIB…

  136. SUPER OBVIOUS says:

    [quote comment="372925"]
    Anyone know what Lapidus said about the planes status after they landed?
    [/quote]
    Something to the effect – -

    “…there is a huge tree branch. It went thru my front windshield and it went thru my co-pilot. The nose wheel is in a ditch. We don’t have a tow truck to pull it out. There is not enough reverse-thrust to back it out. There is a rip in the belly of the plane that won’t let us pressurize. Without pressure, we can’t get high enough for the fuel we have left to get us anywhere. I have no clue where we are, so therefore I have no clue where to take us. So my fellow Ajirans, I, Captain Frank J. Lapidus, hereby state for the record the I personally think the odds are extremely slim that we will ever fly this aircraft off of this remote coral airstrip. Which, by the way, is way too short for trans-continental jetliners to takeoff on. Damaged or otherwise… unless you all want to crash again.”

    - – I think that is how it went.

  137. FrankS says:

    [quote comment="372885"][quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.

    .[/quote]

    Does there really NEED to be a reason?
    It’s very interesting to me though.
    Maybe so all the hicks can wake up and see that other languages are spoken out there in the world.
    I’m sure there’s a lot of folks in their trailers mumbling oaths any time they hear Korean or Arabic spoken. I have one such relative.
    People who say; I hate to watch movies with subtitles.
    When I hear that I think; wow, no Bergman, no Fellini…no Kurosawa…so sad really.

    I thought this episode was amazing…
    of course I’d been saying how much I missed the bad guys for a while.
    And here we get both barrels. Keamy and Patchy.
    The editing and changes between stories was the best ever…what I’ve always loved about the show; as masterful as the best Kubrick. Moody and strange like David Lynch except with a plot…ha.

    Now I feel a guilty for doubting the show.
    If they can keep the show moving on at even half the quality of this episode I’ll be happy.
    I even liked Jack in this episode.

    Ben seems to be reverting to his asshole side again. Ilana is gonna take only so much and she’s gonna smack him one soon.

    I’m just knocked out by the actors; Widmore and Flocke; such powerful presence…and really, everybody else was great. It’s sooooo damn refreshing to see Asian actors getting good parts…long F-ing overdue.
    I’m Anglo & Native American…still waiting for the Indians to take some of that Casino money and make some art with Native Americans. Can’t wait for the Kevin Costers to do it all.

    Keamy is so good at bad…scary as hell. I bet he has a gf someplace who laughs knowing what a sweetie he really is in real life.
    And Patchy; I hope he makes even another return…I bet he didn’t die when we thought he did from that grenade at the submerged Station. He very well could have survived as the water would absorb a lot of the impact of the grenade and maybe he was only wounded.
    I also want more of Sun’s father; super creepy character. Hope Sun will do him in herself.

    Sun is the antidote to fake sexy like Pamela Anderson. Beauty AND brains without the implants.
    Eastern thought has expressed it before; Less is More….sometimes.
    And Sayid is the newer, better Rambo; brains and brawn.
    Maybe Widmore plans to blow up the Island(s) to do away with Smokey forever?

    Off subject but I need to bitch some;
    I watch the show online as I never watch TV. ABC.com ran a boring commercial for a stupid looking new series…but they ran it over and over. I guess brain washing works for the masses but for me; it insured that I will never look at that show.
    It’s weird; on the one hand they have LOST with all it’s intelligence…but they insult me by beating me over the head with one of the worst looking previews ever…and like 6 times.
    Why not an ABC series on American Indians? The new shows look like SciFi & Horror retreads.[/quote]

    Bobola:
    I think you might have gone off on a tangent there with my statement about the korean spoken. I was thinking of how all the Korean spoken fits into the SHOW – like how Jacob speaks Korean and how Charlotte speaks Korean. Last night episode really highlighted KOREAN being spoken. So yes, there NEEDS to be a reason for this effect in the SHOW.

    I think, unfortunately, you construed my statement as something different and went off unnecessarily. I apologize if I offended you or anyone’s sensibilities. I am far from the jingoist you may think me to be and I don’t comment on political/economic/cultural aspects of life as they concern a television show. I restrict my comments here to the SHOW.

  138. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372928"][quote comment="372885"][quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.

    .[/quote]

    Does there really NEED to be a reason?
    It’s very interesting to me though.
    Maybe so all the hicks can wake up and see that other languages are spoken out there in the world.
    I’m sure there’s a lot of folks in their trailers mumbling oaths any time they hear Korean or Arabic spoken. I have one such relative.
    People who say; I hate to watch movies with subtitles.
    When I hear that I think; wow, no Bergman, no Fellini…no Kurosawa…so sad really.
    .[/quote]

    Maybe it is because Paik Industries (Sun’s dad’s Korean company) is linked to the island in some important way?

  139. Aggie Mo says:

    Maybe all the Korean spoken by Jacob, Charlotte, etc. is because Paik Industries (Sun’s dad’s Korean company) is linked to the island in some important way?

  140. Circus Mom says:

    [quote comment="372915"]Ilana said that [quote comment="372909"][quote comment="372891"][quote comment="372886"]

    **********************************************

    Could she have meant MIB? Maybe he was being held captive there in the shack?

    ________

    Tecnically you may be right. But Richard DID talk to “Jacob” which could have easily been the MIB in disguise (Richard is Ben’s connection to Jacob/MIB). Recall how EASILY FLocke convinces Richard to take him to Jacob and then to let him take Ben in too.

    As to the cabin, Iliana [sic] headed there first thinking Jacob was still there. He was not and hadn’t been there for a long time. But someone had been there (giving orders) ursurping Jacobs place…[/quote]

    How do you know she meant Jacob when she said he “hadn’t been there for a long time?”[/quote]

    Well, she also said that someone else had been using it. So, if the “he” she was looking for and that had “not been there in a long time” was Jacob, it would mean that MIB had been using it- which would make sense. i.e it was MIB that talked to Locke when he came in with Ben. PPlus we saw Claire in there with Christian.[/quote]
    I think MIB was traped in the cabin. Ilana went there first to verify that he was no longer there. When they met Locke and then found his body she realized there was a problem and went to verify.

    I think Christian is not MIB and he was the somebody else using the cabin. He left the tapestry fragment there to tell Ilana where to go next.

    When Ben brought Locke to the cabin it was MIB who said “Help me.” I beleive he could apear as the smoke monster outside of the cabin and possible as apperations but couldn’t take real form, Like Flocke, untill he was released.

  141. Missy says:

    Good episode – not as awesome as last week’s, but good nonetheless. Can’t believe there’s so few episodes left! Following are my thoughts:

    Sun forgetting how to speak English – First thing that came to my mind was a Back to the Futurish thought. Like how Marty’s hand starts to disappear when he starts to not exist. Maybe as the current time and FSW time converge things like that could happen – since she doesn’t speak English in the FSW.

    When Flocke said to take the outrigger – I thought we were going to see the missing scene of who was shooting at Sawyer, Juliet, etc. while they were paddling during the many shifts in time after Locke moved the island.

    Widmore – I wonder if MIB came on the scene acting as Jacob and got Widmore expelled. So WIdmore could be mad at Jacob for allowing it to happen, and mad at the MIB for messing up his rule of the island.

    Desmond – Looked like he’d been beaten pretty badly. Couldn’t be from his fight with Ben pre-Ajira flight, could it? The rules don’t apply to Des, so I wonder what he’s capable of.

    Claire – Where are all the questions about Aaron you think she’d have? Also, what body did her “friend” have before Locke – more than just Christians? Cause she said her father and her friend told her that Aaron was in the temple.

    Random – Knowing what we know now about our candidates, were Kate, Sawyer and Jack supposed to be in cages to keep them safe? Or was it just so Jack could do surgery and Sawyer and Kate were pawns to manipulate Jack?

    Sonic fence – So Widmore knows his stuff. But what is that stuff? The sonar around the barracks was supposed to keep out smokie, (among others) right? Then how is it that Ben could summon smokie from the comfort of his closet? Can there be more than one smoke monster? Remember he had difficulty summoning it after he crashed from Ajira to attone for his sins, and it didn’t show up. Could that be because he was in Flocke form at this time?

    Bodies on the island – What is MIB’s original body. Sounds like the MIB’s body we first see him in wasn’t actually his first body. Has he been body jumping for millenniums? For bodies that are not buried?

    That’s all for now – please dissect!

  142. HollyP says:

    [quote comment="372865"]…which then leads me to believe that Charles has actually spoken to Jacob because he knows about the MIB and what can happen if he is released from the island and Ben is somewhat clueless. simply a pawn.[/quote]

    Not possible. Don’t you remember Miles’ backstory episode, where Bram grabbed Miles and told him he couldn’t go work for Widmore on the freighter… then on the island Bram was with Ilana, who was directly told by Jacob to protect the candidates.

    Thus, if Ilana and Bram = Team Jacob and Widmore is in opposition to Bram, then Widmore cannot be on Team Jacob.

    I’m thinking Widmore is on Team Charles.

  143. HollyP says:

    Speaking of electromagnetism, Sanjay Gupta on cnn.com has an article on how electromagnetism can affect a person’s moral view. This would provide an interesting twist to the who/what is MIB…

    http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/30/can-morality-be-changed-magnetically/

  144. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="372924"][quote comment="372923"][quote comment="372919"]so no one is questioning why flocke didn’t catch sun after she hit her head? no one found that strange? and you guys all think ben didn’t see flocke? ben didn’t talk to flocke?

    as ilana said “cuz you’re speaking” when ben asks her why she thinks he’s lying.[/quote]

    No – I think MIB can’t take Sun against her free will. If he grabbed (kidnapped) her when she was unconscious, perhaps it would break a rule.

    And I don’t think Ben saw MIB. I really do believe that (for now) Ben is completely sincere about his new alliance.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    I don’t believe Ben is completely sincere about anything.[/quote]
    I agree. I think it’s too easy just to believe Ben. He has done nothing to make you trust anything he says or does. Too me… it seemed as if he was trying too hard to convince Ilana that Richard was not coming back. Almost seemed w/ a purpose. Its possible he could be a mole. I think its very possible that a scene was missing when Flocke told him to escape.

    I also think that Sayid not feeling anything (happiness, sadness, anger) was significant somehow. He and Claire are supposed to be infected w/ the same thing… yet Claire clearly still has her emotions.

  145. freckles says:

    [quote comment="372867"][quote comment="372845"]I keep trying to figure out when MIB took over Locke. He was apparently in his body off island before he died because he quoted Widmore “a wise man said there’s gonna be a war”. Widmore said that to Locke. He also knew how Locke felt when he was killed. these details were on purpose.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Couldn’t that just be from Smokey’s ability to scan someone and know what they’ve done and said?[/quote]

    I’m confused because Locke didn’t say that…Widmore did. so he would have to scan his memory.

    I’m also thinking that the Mirror image just symbolized that there are two of them. Just like the doctor was still alive on the freighter and also dead on the island. So when they all die on the island, is there still another image of them alive?

  146. DocH says:

    [quote comment="372932"]
    Widmore – I wonder if MIB came on the scene acting as Jacob and got Widmore expelled. So WIdmore could be mad at Jacob for allowing it to happen, and mad at the MIB for messing up his rule of the island. – please dissect!
    [/quote]
    This got me thinking about something that I have been trying to figure out for awhile.

    I think Ben and Widmore will end up on the same side in the end. They know ‘the rules’. They now know, or will know soon, exactly what needs to be done.

    I think when Widmore was expelled from the island, that was because Jacob could not allow him to continue to lead the Others, because he was a rule bender (or breaker). An “integrity check”, was called and Wid was ousted.

    I’m sure that Ben facilitated the departure of Charles, but Ben got his place in the island leadership chain-of-command because he was willing to follow Jacob’s integrity guidelines (rules).

    This is why rule breaking has been such an issue between Widmore and Ben. Ben revisited that issue after the Alex-Keamy assassination.

    Outcome? Though still confrontational with one another, with Widmore = “Sour Grapes”, while Ben = “I know what you did” …I think they will ultimately come together to re-establish the control (Jacob-style) that the island needs to contain/retain MIB.

  147. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="372936"][quote comment="372867"][quote comment="372845"]I keep trying to figure out when MIB took over Locke. He was apparently in his body off island before he died because he quoted Widmore “a wise man said there’s gonna be a war”. Widmore said that to Locke. He also knew how Locke felt when he was killed. these details were on purpose.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Couldn’t that just be from Smokey’s ability to scan someone and know what they’ve done and said?[/quote]

    I’m confused because Locke didn’t say that…Widmore did. so he would have to scan his memory.

    I’m also thinking that the Mirror image just symbolized that there are two of them. Just like the doctor was still alive on the freighter and also dead on the island. So when they all die on the island, is there still another image of them alive?[/quote]
    I think something similar is possible. Widmore told Jin that if MIB got off of the island that everyone he loved would “cease to exist”… he did not say “die”. Those words were exactly what he meant.

  148. freckles says:

    do you think Sun FS will die? or the baby? that would back up their loved ones cease to exist. I think Juliete will be her doctor, since she also helped her on the island with the baby

  149. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="372939"]do you think Sun FS will die? or the baby? that would back up their loved ones cease to exist. I think Juliete will be her doctor, since she also helped her on the island with the baby[/quote]
    I think Widmore was referring to Jin’s daughter as well as his own which is why he mentioned that he had one right before he said it. Now who else he means… I have no clue.

  150. DPAL says:

    This is my first post on here but i wanted to share my theory. In the previous episode with Richard the end was MIB smashing the bottle. This symbolized that there were other ways out than through the cork, or in his case the island. I think the flash sideways are the result of the bomb and since the bomb blew up, MIB was able to escape the island to corrupt the world. So i stated trying to find how evil has changed everything in the flash sideways, but i couldn’t. It seemed everything was better and less corrupt. This leads me to believe that MIB is good and Jacob is evil. Its a stretch but it’s a possibility.

  151. wizrednat says:

    [quote comment="372941"]This is my first post on here but i wanted to share my theory. In the previous episode with Richard the end was MIB smashing the bottle. This symbolized that there were other ways out than through the cork, or in his case the island. I think the flash sideways are the result of the bomb and since the bomb blew up, MIB was able to escape the island to corrupt the world. So i stated trying to find how evil has changed everything in the flash sideways, but i couldn’t. It seemed everything was better and less corrupt. This leads me to believe that MIB is good and Jacob is evil. Its a stretch but it’s a possibility.[/quote]
    A few things have sort of steered me in that direction. The guy next to Richard on the boat said the island is protected by the devil when he saw the statue. Why would Good=Jacob make his home in the statue of a devil? Jacob said no one comes to the island unless he invites them. Does he invite them to try and show that bad people can become good or that good people can become bad? One thing for sure is that the people always die which isnt Good. Jacob kicked the shyt out of Richard before the “holy” gift of immortality. That was way out of character from the previous times we’ve seen him. One more… MIB told Richard that it’s never too late, for him to change his mind. Isn’t that on every page in the bible?

  152. HollyP says:

    I believe that Smokey took over Locke’s shape when Locke’s body returned to the island. I think Smokey became “locked” in Locke’s shape once Jacob died, which is why we no longer seem him taking other shapes.

    Flocke as the Smoke Monster seems to have the ability to scan memory in some fashion. That’s how he knew about Ricardo’s Isabella and her necklace, about Kate’s horse, about Eko’s brother, etc. Thus, he could have scanned Locke’s corpse and found the conversation with Widmore.

  153. wizrednat says:

    [quote comment="372942"][quote comment="372941"]This is my first post on here but i wanted to share my theory. In the previous episode with Richard the end was MIB smashing the bottle. This symbolized that there were other ways out than through the cork, or in his case the island. I think the flash sideways are the result of the bomb and since the bomb blew up, MIB was able to escape the island to corrupt the world. So i stated trying to find how evil has changed everything in the flash sideways, but i couldn’t. It seemed everything was better and less corrupt. This leads me to believe that MIB is good and Jacob is evil. Its a stretch but it’s a possibility.[/quote]
    A few things have sort of steered me in that direction. The guy next to Richard on the boat said the island is protected by the devil when he saw the statue. Why would Good=Jacob make his home in the statue of a devil? Jacob said no one comes to the island unless he invites them. Does he invite them to try and show that bad people can become good or that good people can become bad? One thing for sure is that the people always die which isnt Good. Jacob kicked the shyt out of Richard before the “holy” gift of immortality. That was way out of character from the previous times we’ve seen him. One more… MIB told Richard that it’s never too late, for him to change his mind. Isn’t that on every page in the bible?[/quote]
    [quote comment="372942"][quote comment="372941"]This is my first post on here but i wanted to share my theory. In the previous episode with Richard the end was MIB smashing the bottle. This symbolized that there were other ways out than through the cork, or in his case the island. I think the flash sideways are the result of the bomb and since the bomb blew up, MIB was able to escape the island to corrupt the world. So i stated trying to find how evil has changed everything in the flash sideways, but i couldn’t. It seemed everything was better and less corrupt. This leads me to believe that MIB is good and Jacob is evil. Its a stretch but it’s a possibility.[/quote]
    A few things have sort of steered me in that direction. The guy next to Richard on the boat said the island is protected by the devil when he saw the statue. Why would Good=Jacob make his home in the statue of a devil? Jacob said no one comes to the island unless he invites them. Does he invite them to try and show that bad people can become good or that good people can become bad? One thing for sure is that the people always die which isnt Good. Jacob kicked the shyt out of Richard before the “holy” gift of immortality. That was way out of character from the previous times we’ve seen him. One more… MIB told Richard that it’s never too late, for him to change his mind. Isn’t that on every page in the bible?[/quote]
    There is a scene missing. MIB got to Sun and she is trying to stop Jacob now.

  154. LunarLast says:

    We now know that smokey cannot float to the other island. So as Christian, he waited for Sun and Lapidus to show up and told them to wait for Locke to come by then took the outrigger back and occupied Locke’s body.

    Now the question is, how did he know that Locke was dead?

  155. freckles says:

    [quote comment="372945"]We now know that smokey cannot float to the other island. So as Christian, he waited for Sun and Lapidus to show up and told them to wait for Locke to come by then took the outrigger back and occupied Locke’s body.

    Now the question is, how did he know that Locke was dead?[/quote]

    I sort of agree, but he seemed to act like MIB as soon as he arrived on the island. Remember that Christian was with Locke when he turned the donkey wheel. So it did seem like he traveled more easily, which makes me think that sometimes Jacob used Christian and so did MIB. Didn’t Hurley see Christian in the mental hospital, or am I wrong?

  156. Just wrote a piece for the Huffington Post on a possible spoiler video. I’m not sure if it’s real or not, but it’s interesting!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-grossman/lost-spoiler-alert-actor_b_505135.html

  157. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372947"]Just wrote a piece for the Huffington Post on a possible spoiler video. I’m not sure if it’s real or not, but it’s interesting!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-grossman/lost-spoiler-alert-actor_b_505135.html%5B/quote%5D

    If there is a chance it is a spoiler, I won’t be watching, but since it was posted shortly after midnight on April Fool’s Day – it might be a giant hoax.

    : ) P

  158. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372941"]This is my first post on here but i wanted to share my theory. In the previous episode with Richard the end was MIB smashing the bottle. This symbolized that there were other ways out than through the cork, or in his case the island. [/quote]

    Pretty good theory, especially for a first post!

    : ) P

  159. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372942"]
    A few things have sort of steered me in that direction. The guy next to Richard on the boat said the island is protected by the devil when he saw the statue. Why would Good=Jacob make his home in the statue of a devil? [/quote]

    I think we need to keep in mind that the character speaking was a delirious prisoner, probably half dead from starvation and dehydration, looking through a small slat, in a raging storm, with a near pitch black sky, with little more than flashes of lightning to light the sky, at a stature of Tawaret (the Egyptian Goddess of Fertility – confirmed as such by D&C). I think MAYBE, we don’t have to take this minor character’s word for it.

    : ) P

  160. Mr. $tuart says:

    I was listening to Graham Hancock on Coast to Coast AM tonight. When you apply his theories about time, conciousness, and lost civilizations to LOST, a lot of things start to come together and make since. I’m actually thinking I might have everything figured out. LOL But he also almost made me believe that the world will end on Dec 21, 2012.

  161. Wow, theres some nice links there – where do you find them all? I’m going to read all those through in detail and apply a few.. Thanks for sharing!

  162. andre gr says:

    [quote comment="372932"]
    Sonic fence – So Widmore knows his stuff. But what is that stuff? The sonar around the barracks was supposed to keep out smokie, (among others) right? Then how is it that Ben could summon smokie from the comfort of his closet?
    [/quote]

    The hole in his closet was simply another passage to the barracks. I think the only thing that was stoping smokie from entering when it feeled like, was mud water.

  163. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372951"][quote comment="372942"]
    A few things have sort of steered me in that direction. The guy next to Richard on the boat said the island is protected by the devil when he saw the statue. Why would Good=Jacob make his home in the statue of a devil? [/quote]

    I think we need to keep in mind that the character speaking was a delirious prisoner, probably half dead from starvation and dehydration, looking through a small slat, in a raging storm, with a near pitch black sky, with little more than flashes of lightning to light the sky, at a stature of Tawaret (the Egyptian Goddess of Fertility – confirmed as such by D&C). I think MAYBE, we don’t have to take this minor character’s word for it.

    : ) P[/quote]
    I agree. That guy saw a wierd, giant, menacing statue, freaked out, and thought it was the devil. That’s a wrap on that.

  164. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372936"][quote comment="372867"][quote comment="372845"]I keep trying to figure out when MIB took over Locke. He was apparently in his body off island before he died because he quoted Widmore “a wise man said there’s gonna be a war”. Widmore said that to Locke. He also knew how Locke felt when he was killed. these details were on purpose.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Couldn’t that just be from Smokey’s ability to scan someone and know what they’ve done and said?[/quote]

    I’m confused because Locke didn’t say that…Widmore did. so he would have to scan his memory.[/quote]
    Not necessarily. In Locke’s memories are conversations Locke had with people. What Widmore told Locke would be a memory in Locke’s head. C’mon.

  165. sector7 says:

    Ok. Widmore must know that Des has a special ability. Des’s ability is that his conscience can travel through time and space. Up until now, though, Des has not been able to control his ability. If Widmore can help Des control his ability, what could he do then? Seeing Des disappear from the FSW 815 is a huge clue.

  166. rowjimmy says:

    [quote comment="372957"]Ok. Widmore must know that Des has a special ability. Des’s ability is that his conscience can travel through time and space. Up until now, though, Des has not been able to control his ability. If Widmore can help Des control his ability, what could he do then? Seeing Des disappear from the FSW 815 is a huge clue.[/quote]
    Which begs the question.Who’s your daddy Des?
    Possibly Jacob?

  167. rowjimmy says:

    P.S. (In by best Arnold voice)
    And what does he do for a living

  168. Jason says:

    So at one point, Ben could summon Smokey. Since smokey is MIB, does this mean that Ben really is working with/for him?

  169. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372960"]So at one point, Ben could summon Smokey. Since smokey is MIB, does this mean that Ben really is working with/for him?[/quote]
    You’re assuming alot. Just because he “summoned” smokie one time and it came and killed the mercenaries doesn’t mean he had some sort of control over it. It just means smokie chose to respond to Ben’s request at that time. When Ben tried to summon smokie the next time after that, smokie stayed in the form of Locke and did not appear in front of Ben as smokie, ready to fufill Ben’s request.

  170. Jason says:

    [quote comment="372962"][quote comment="372960"]So at one point, Ben could summon Smokey. Since smokey is MIB, does this mean that Ben really is working with/for him?[/quote]
    You’re assuming alot. Just because he “summoned” smokie one time and it came and killed the mercenaries doesn’t mean he had some sort of control over it. It just means smokie chose to respond to Ben’s request at that time. When Ben tried to summon smokie the next time after that, smokie stayed in the form of Locke and did not appear in front of Ben as smokie, ready to fufill Ben’s request.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    You just proved my point….Ben does not control smokey/MIB…..does MIB control Ben? Is been working with him?

  171. Miss lost says:

    Rewatched the ep last night and those in my family who watch started talking about Flocke’s need to touch the candidates. He has held out his hand to Sun, Jin, Kate, and Sawyer and Sayid. Can anyone remember if Sayid shook his hand? I can’t remember but I was assuming he might have since he did go back to the temple and kill for Flocke. Sun, Jin Kate and Sawyer just look at the outstretched hand but do not take it. BUT when Sawyer was climbing down the ladder and fell he had to grab his hand. Do you think that constitutes free will and is that bad news for Sawyer now?

  172. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="372963"][quote comment="372962"][quote comment="372960"]So at one point, Ben could summon Smokey. Since smokey is MIB, does this mean that Ben really is working with/for him?[/quote]
    You’re assuming alot. Just because he “summoned” smokie one time and it came and killed the mercenaries doesn’t mean he had some sort of control over it. It just means smokie chose to respond to Ben’s request at that time. When Ben tried to summon smokie the next time after that, smokie stayed in the form of Locke and did not appear in front of Ben as smokie, ready to fufill Ben’s request.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    You just proved my point….Ben does not control smokey/MIB…..does MIB control Ben? Is been working with him?[/quote]

    See my comment 85 above — I have wondered about this since the Sundown episode. What I think is that Ben was power hungry and thus was susceptible to unkowing manipulation by MIB/Smokie — not just in killing Jacob, but maybe unknowlingly a number of other times while he was leader of the “Others”.

  173. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372960"]So at one point, Ben could summon Smokey. Since smokey is MIB, does this mean that Ben really is working with/for him?[/quote]
    ********************

    I don’t think Ben really knew who or what Smokey was. I think Widmore made it sound like they didn’t really know much about him but that they had heard “ghost stories” or myths and the jungle noises. They somehow figured out ways to protect themselves from him.
    When Ben summoned Smokey I don’t think he knew for sure he would come. He just knew that the WATER kept him out. Draining that water would allow him in and I think he hoped he would take care of Keamy’s team. I think in the long run this played right into Smokey hands.

  174. sector7 says:

    [quote comment="372965"][quote comment="372963"][quote comment="372962"][quote comment="372960"]So at one point, Ben could summon Smokey. Since smokey is MIB, does this mean that Ben really is working with/for him?[/quote]
    You’re assuming alot. Just because he “summoned” smokie one time and it came and killed the mercenaries doesn’t mean he had some sort of control over it. It just means smokie chose to respond to Ben’s request at that time. When Ben tried to summon smokie the next time after that, smokie stayed in the form of Locke and did not appear in front of Ben as smokie, ready to fufill Ben’s request.[/quote]
    _______________________________________
    You just proved my point….Ben does not control smokey/MIB…..does MIB control Ben? Is been working with him?[/quote]

    See my comment 85 above — I have wondered about this since the Sundown episode. What I think is that Ben was power hungry and thus was susceptible to unkowing manipulation by MIB/Smokie — not just in killing Jacob, but maybe unknowlingly a number of other times while he was leader of the “Others”.[/quote]
    I agree.

  175. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="372956"][quote comment="372936"][quote comment="372867"][quote comment="372845"]I keep trying to figure out when MIB took over Locke. He was apparently in his body off island before he died because he quoted Widmore “a wise man said there’s gonna be a war”. Widmore said that to Locke. He also knew how Locke felt when he was killed. these details were on purpose.[/quote]
    _______________________________
    Couldn’t that just be from Smokey’s ability to scan someone and know what they’ve done and said?[/quote]

    I’m confused because Locke didn’t say that…Widmore did. so he would have to scan his memory.[/quote]
    Not necessarily. In Locke’s memories are conversations Locke had with people. What Widmore told Locke would be a memory in Locke’s head. C’mon.[/quote]
    ******************
    It doesn’t appear to me that MIB was Locke off island. On island we know that he has been shot and stabbed and neither have killed him or hurt him. Locke was clearly hurt and could feel pain. Locke was very “Locke Like” off island even giving in and wanting to hang himself after he failed to convince the O6 to return. I really don’t think MIB would have done that.
    The Locke we saw AFTER the Ajira crash was different right from the start~confident and cocky!
    I would assume that Jacob must have informed Ilana that MIB would take on someone’s form and thus she would need that body to prove to the others that he could not be trusted.
    I think this is why Jacob appears to be one step ahead of MIB and has worked so hard to have the right personnel on island to stop MIB.

  176. sector7 says:

    I agree with Miss lost, comment 173 as well.

  177. Florida in July says:

    Someone in the latimes blog mentioned Desmond was wearing the jacket (or a similar jacket) to the one he wore during the time traveling ep. The Constant. Did anyone catch this? Confirm? I guess it would explain his disheveled state. It would also explain how the show via Desmond can bridge FSW and the island time…

  178. Lind says:

    Okay, here is my take on the MIB / Smokey / Christian / Locke connundrum.

    MIB CAN BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD

    Here is why I think this:

    Flocke told Sayid that he could bring Nadia back… he of course may have been lying…

    He (SOMEONE) brought Sayid back from the dead… we know it wasn’t the fountain.

    Christian is walking around and oddly seems to be independent of Flocke/MIB… (Claire said “My father and my friend told me the Others took Aaron”… we see Christian speaking to Sun and Ben after they arrive on the big island, with Locke nearby…

    My guess is that he’s brining people back from the dead to recruit as his helpers and messengers, and that he can only bring those back from the dead who may easily be swayed to his side. Note, he didn’t bring Locke back from the dead, because he knows that if he were to do so, Locke would not be on his side (having that pure LockeHeart and all). Sayid, Claire… they were easily recruited to do his bidding.

    So, the only way to use Locke’s likeness and manipulate those to his will is to take Locke’s form… not bring him back to life.

    Then, he somehow gets stuck in this form (as we all know)… probably because people saw Locke’s body and Flocke simultaneously.

    Another note – about Locke bringing the dead back to be his messengers – Christain seems to have been speaking for MIB for a while, and he sends Claire into the temple to deliver a message…

    So, that is why the Dharma and Others bury / burn their dead. So they can’t be brought back to life and used as a pawn, and/or MIB cannot take on their likeness.

  179. Lind says:

    Also, that is the “infection” – being brought back to life a la MIB.

    I’m guessing the fountain is Jacob’s means of achieving the same ends… though that only works for the good and the innocent.

  180. PJSander says:

    From Jorge Garcia:

    Keamy did NOT say “your island” while tying Jin up in “The Package”. The script says “Because if you figure out what’s about to happen to you, I can’t have you freaking out”

    : ) P

  181. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="372928"][quote comment="372885"][quote comment="372869"]
    I think, unfortunately, you construed my statement as something different and went off unnecessarily. I apologize if I offended you or anyone’s sensibilities. I am far from the jingoist you may think me to be and I don’t comment on political/economic/cultural aspects of life as they concern a television show. I restrict my comments here to the SHOW.[/quote]

    Well, goody for you that you want to “restrict” your comments to whatever you see fit…but I NEVER accused YOU personally of jingoism.

    Your comment merely set me off into a free association of ideas…and ideas ARE what the show is about to me. I could care less about a lot of the Sci Fi angles and other things. I’m just here to give my perspective.
    Some don’t like it and some do.

    I care about the human interaction…the drama.
    For me they just happen to be on an island with weird properties. It really doesn’t matter that much to as that’s just a device and backdrop for drama.
    I think it was odd of you to complain that there was no immediate reason given for the Korean spoken, seeing as there are so many things that go unexplained. My response was to underline that, for me; it’s a cultural thing that exposes me (and the world) to a taste of something different and therefore; no deeper reason needed—although I’m guessing there will be one. But for me the fact that America is now an International Country needs to be portrayed in the media of populist Television; it’s VERY important. For that reason ALONE the Korean segment was great.
    Also could use more Polar Bears.

    I was discussing aspects of the show perhaps not interesting to you but for me they ARE connected to the show and to life.
    As for your stance on;
    “political/economic/cultural aspects”

    I didn’t touch on Politics or Economics, but if you don’t see Culture as part of everything there’s nothing I can do about that. It just is.

  182. LOLO says:

    Bobola, your posts are the best!

  183. Miraks says:

    I don’t think that MIB and Jacob can be viewed in the christian sense of all good or all evil. rather it’s a free will choice. Jacob gives you free will without necessarily making any promises other that- this is for the better. MIB on the other hand uses temptation, BUT the person still had the free will to follow or not. I guess I see the island as a sort of Pandora’s Box that should not be opened (uncorked).

  184. wally p says:

    The more I think about it the more I guess that the bottle has already been uncorked, and that is when they moved the island in season 4. The donkey wheel, as I predicted then was built to hold the island in place, not as a means to move it, and if it needed to be moved it would be under extreme emergency situations…

    The sideways universe is going to come together now that Desmond is back on the island. I feel like there is a significance to the three year difference between the island and the sideways, that has to do with that swinging pendulum thing in the church.

    Remember when Locke turned the wheel he skipped over three years completely? Everyone else lived through those three years, whether they were in 1977 or 2007…. if Locke wasnt on the island, and he wasnt in Tunisia, then where was he? Was he sucking down a drink with Christian Shephard?

  185. Fast Eddie S says:

    [quote comment="372881"][quote comment="372879"][quote comment="372873"][quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.[/quote]

    There is. Pretty much everything drives the story. The fact that Sun can’t speak English, but still understands it, will play a part in what is to come.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Yeah, I took the playing cards as a reminder of Faraday…temporal yuckity yuck. Sun may be the next nose bleeding messenger (linking the two timelines).[/quote]
    __________

    That is what I was thinking specially if you recall Sun running from FLocke and hitting her head -suddenly where back to FSW. I am guessing at some point (as many have said) these two “realities” have to be reconciled and Sun speaking only Korean is a bit like these two realities meshing together.

    ps. Hammer April 1st is coming up I hope you and the gang don’t boycott err “disappear” for the week like last year.[/quote]
    What was the significance of Sun cutting her finger just before Floke appeared?

  186. Circus Mom says:

    The island has had the ability to heal people. I am wondering if Suns cut will demonstrate that it still dows, or that is no longer does. My guess is it won’t heal well or fast.

    Cuts are a way that infection can enter the body.

  187. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372978"][quote comment="372881"][quote comment="372879"][quote comment="372873"][quote comment="372869"]Surprisingly liked the episode though for the life of me, I cannot understand the purpose of the korean spoken. There’s got to be some reason.[/quote]

    There is. Pretty much everything drives the story. The fact that Sun can’t speak English, but still understands it, will play a part in what is to come.

    : ) P[/quote]
    Yeah, I took the playing cards as a reminder of Faraday…temporal yuckity yuck. Sun may be the next nose bleeding messenger (linking the two timelines).[/quote]
    __________

    That is what I was thinking specially if you recall Sun running from FLocke and hitting her head -suddenly where back to FSW. I am guessing at some point (as many have said) these two “realities” have to be reconciled and Sun speaking only Korean is a bit like these two realities meshing together.

    ps. Hammer April 1st is coming up I hope you and the gang don’t boycott err “disappear” for the week like last year.[/quote]
    What was the significance of Sun cutting her finger just before Floke appeared?[/quote]

    I just took it as a foreshadowing that something bad was about to happen (cue Locke).

  188. intolost says:

    Was this the same moment from Sayid’s flashsideways in Sundown where he kills Keamy? I can’t remember. Are we going to have a Claire flashsideways? That would be a good episode. What has here life been like on island for three years with Lockemonster. I miss Ben’s role too. Seems like the rug has just been totally yanked from under him this season.

  189. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="372984"]Was this the same moment from Sayid’s flashsideways in Sundown where he kills Keamy? I can’t remember. [/quote]

    Yes,

    [quote comment="372984"]Are we going to have a Claire flashsideways? That would be a good episode. [/quote]

    We sort of already did, as part of Kate’s FSW.

    [quote comment="372984"] What has (Claire’s) life been like on island for three years with Lockemonster. [/quote]

    Whatever her life was like during that three years, it wasn’t, as far as we know, with “Lockemonster” until the Ajira flight crashed with Locke’s corpse on board. Up until then, MIB/Smokey was presumably in some other form, which is probably why Claire referred to “it” as her “friend” and not by name.

    : ) P

  190. wally p says:

    [quote comment="372984"]Was this the same moment from Sayid’s flashsideways in Sundown where he kills Keamy? I can’t remember. Are we going to have a Claire flashsideways? That would be a good episode. What has here life been like on island for three years with Lockemonster. I miss Ben’s role too. Seems like the rug has just been totally yanked from under him this season.[/quote]

    I dont think the Locke version was there for three years (unless Smokey took his likeness as soon as he pushed the donkey wheel)—

  191. intolost says:

    Thanks Wally and PJ! ; )

  192. Miss lost says:

    Some have hinted that Desmond may have “flashed” off of the plane (the scene where he was sitting next to Jack and when Jack came back he was gone). Is there anyway to see if any of his clothing matches that scene to the scene in the last ep. Are his clothes the same?
    If he did not flash then I would assume that Widmore took him against his will at the hospital.
    I think Widmore tried desperately to keep him and Penny apart because he has always been aware of Desmond being “special” and somehow knowing the island would need him.
    I really like the love story between Des and Penny and so I hope that it is not a bad sign that we are seeing him on the island again. I would hope his promise of always being with her will hold true.

  193. wally p says:

    My guess for Desmond flashing from the plane would have been that he flashes into the hatch at the moment after he blew it up…
    Desmonds flashes have all been mental, so for him to have a physical flash, it would have to be due to something major… like perhaps flashing onto the island as soon as the button pushing Desmond is blown up…???????????????

    On the other hand, Jack did not flash in the sideways, yet it seems that he actually did physically flash out of the plane in both the original 815 and the 316…so, ????????????

    Did Christian flash out of his casket?

  194. Flordia in July says:

    something I didn’t catch until after doing some reading online (or atleast did not see the connection) was that MIB cannot cross bodies of water. He needs a boat to do so. SO Christian who appeared to Walt’s dad on Witmores ship could not have been smokey. Neither could he/it be Christian when he appeared to Jack in the hospital lobby. This gives creedence to the theory that there are definitly two Christians (MIB version and “good/original” Christian)… I wonder if this also applies to Claire (the one who appeared to Kate in Aarons room) and wierd/crazy Claire…

  195. David Morales says:

    LOST figured out – the science gave it away!
    http://digg.com/d31NMvs

  196. Jim H. Cricket says:

    [quote comment="372990"]
    Did Christian flash out of his casket?
    [/quote]

    a wild pig ate Christian out of his casket. an island ‘happy meal’?

  197. Mr. $tuart says:

    [quote comment="372989"]Some have hinted that Desmond may have “flashed” off of the plane (the scene where he was sitting next to Jack and when Jack came back he was gone). Is there anyway to see if any of his clothing matches that scene to the scene in the last ep. Are his clothes the same?
    If he did not flash then I would assume that Widmore took him against his will at the hospital.
    I think Widmore tried desperately to keep him and Penny apart because he has always been aware of Desmond being “special” and somehow knowing the island would need him.
    I really like the love story between Des and Penny and so I hope that it is not a bad sign that we are seeing him on the island again. I would hope his promise of always being with her will hold true.[/quote]
    http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/701e4f975f607f467fec8e87be2f20e7

    http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1518-51.html

  198. Lind says:

    I wonder – in the original timeline, we know that Jin has the watch, and it’s presumably for Keamy. Does he also have the cash? Did Mr. Paik intend to have Jin offed?

  199. mimi says:

    When Dogen was talking to Sayid in the temple about how he decided to come to the island, Sayid told him, “he drives a hard bargain” about the man, Jacob, who promised to bring back his Son if Dogen comes to the island. Then Dogen told Sayid something like “I assume the man you met in the jungle made a similar bargain with you?”. It sounds to me like Dogen thinks that the man is the same guy = MIB, although the man introducd him as “Jacob” to Dogen. And also it just doesn’t seem like it’s Jacob’s character to promise to “bring a dead person back”. It’s what MIB would offer. However, now we know that Smokie can’t travel over water, it’s unlikely that anyone who people meet off the island is MIB… I’m confused!

    By the way, the guy who played Dogen is a very famous actor in Japan, and it was fascinating to see him in LOST!

  200. wallyp says:

    [quote comment="372996"]

    By the way, the guy who played Dogen is a very famous actor in Japan, and it was fascinating to see him in LOST![/quote]

    Oroku Saki! AKA The Shredder!

  201. londonboy says:

    So, do we assume that Jin is the father of Sun’s unborn baby in the FSW? She was having an affair with her English teacher in the original timeline wasn’t she?

    And do we assume she can’t speak English in the FSW? It seemed like she couldn’t but then, she was hiding it in the original timeline, including successfully from Jin.

    The sudden inability to speak English but understand it and write it seems a little hokey, even if Jack was able to put a medical name to it. Can we be sure Flocke didn’t do anything to her? It seems a big coincidence, but it’s quite possible, based on what he said, that he can’t make her do anything and so, unconscious there was nothing more he could do, then he heard Ben coming and decided there was no point hanging around. We don’t know how long Sun was unconscious for.

    Looks like Jack’s beginning to believe, based on his two conversations with Sun. Although, didn’t he promise her he’d get her and Jin off the island? He might not be able to do that and step up for whatever candidate challenge that might be coming their way.

  202. londonboy says:

    I’m also inclined to think Sayid’s not a goner yet. Although that may be more hope than anything else. If he is going through something, as Flocke said, then it hasn’t finished yet. Would the end result be different if someone other than Flocke helped him get through it, or is he damned but not yet unable to stop himself.

    Speaking of which, did Flocke say what he wanted Sayid to do regarding the package? What is just find out what it is, or retrieve it, or destroy it? Am just wondering how safe Des is, disregarding whatever Widmore’s motives are.

    And this was the first time wasn’t it that Flocke said that not only does his plan/escape involve getting off the island, but he needs all of the candidates either to do it, or as part of a bigger plan?

  203. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="372975"]Bobola, your posts are the best![/quote]

    —-
    Thank you, intelligent person.

  204. Mustachio says:

    So…Sun’s dad is behind the Hanso Foundation, right? And when are we going to find out what the hell is going on in ann arbour?

  205. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372996"]When Dogen was talking to Sayid in the temple about how he decided to come to the island, Sayid told him, “he drives a hard bargain” about the man, Jacob, who promised to bring back his Son if Dogen comes to the island. Then Dogen told Sayid something like “I assume the man you met in the jungle made a similar bargain with you?”. It sounds to me like Dogen thinks that the man is the same guy = MIB, although the man introducd him as “Jacob” to Dogen. And also it just doesn’t seem like it’s Jacob’s character to promise to “bring a dead person back”. It’s what MIB would offer. However, now we know that Smokie can’t travel over water, it’s unlikely that anyone who people meet off the island is MIB… I’m confused!

    By the way, the guy who played Dogen is a very famous actor in Japan, and it was fascinating to see him in LOST![/quote]
    Although somewhat contradictory, I think we are supposed to assume that Dogen’s son was GOING to die or maybe was on life support when Jacob made his offer based on Dogen’s words:

    DOGEN: … I was promoted. My associates took me out to celebrate. I had too much to drink. Every Friday I picked my son up from baseball. He was twelve. The accident was very bad. I survived. But my son…
    [Dogen pauses]
    DOGEN: And then, in the hospital, a man came to me. A man I had never met. And he told me that he could save my son’s life, but I would have to come here… to this island… where I would have a new job. And I could never see my boy again.

  206. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372995"]I wonder – in the original timeline, we know that Jin has the watch, and it’s presumably for Keamy. Does he also have the cash? Did Mr. Paik intend to have Jin offed?[/quote]
    I think Paik intended to have Sun and Jin end up on the island (working with Widmore) in the original time line.

    He used the watch(es) in FSW to show us that many things are very similar in both time lines. They were meant to be on the plane in both time lines.

  207. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="372991"]something I didn’t catch until after doing some reading online (or atleast did not see the connection) was that MIB cannot cross bodies of water. He needs a boat to do so. SO Christian who appeared to Walt’s dad on Witmores ship could not have been smokey. Neither could he/it be Christian when he appeared to Jack in the hospital lobby. This gives creedence to the theory that there are definitly two Christians (MIB version and “good/original” Christian)… I wonder if this also applies to Claire (the one who appeared to Kate in Aarons room) and wierd/crazy Claire…[/quote]
    My current take is that MIB’s ‘being’ can’t travel across water. Apparitions, spirits, illusions, telepathy maybe can. I think what we are to assume is the MIB is trapped on the island. If he ‘appears’ off island…his essence is still trapped. Think of it as as a visual phone call. You can see him, but he’s not there.

  208. Lind says:

    [quote comment="372998"][quote comment="372996"]

    By the way, the guy who played Dogen is a very famous actor in Japan, and it was fascinating to see him in LOST![/quote]

    Oroku Saki!

    AKA The Shredder![/quote]

    HE’S THE SHREDDER?!?! This show just got way better.

  209. Scott Covert says:

    Hammer – that’s kind of brilliant.

    Explains a lot of stuff – some off-island apparitions could be Jacob’s work, or in my opinion more often, the MIB – but only as projection – able to use verbal trickery, but not able to infect the whole world with his actual “being-ness”.

    But it’s hard to sort out who is doing what, because MIB and Jacob both need certain groups of people to be on the island, for different reasons. Jacob wants them there to get a replacement. MIB wants them all there to commit mass murder, probably, or just escape.

    Further complicating the issue are visions like Ecko visiting Hurley. This is possibly neither MIB or Jacob – maybe it’s just bored dead people playing chess and occasionally barking orders?

    Although – is Jacob REALLY off-island when he seems to be off-island? And is it safe for him to go off-island as long as there is at least one living candidate on the island, to keep the cork in? Is it kind of like turning on the electric fencing and leaving your vicious dog alone at home for a few hours?

    Other apparitions – like Kate’s horse – is that the island’s electromagnetic magic interacting with people’s brains?

  210. mimi says:

    [quote comment="373013"][quote comment="372996"]When Dogen was talking to Sayid in the temple about how he decided to come to the island, Sayid told him, “he drives a hard bargain” about the man, Jacob, who promised to bring back his Son if Dogen comes to the island. Then Dogen told Sayid something like “I assume the man you met in the jungle made a similar bargain with you?”. It sounds to me like Dogen thinks that the man is the same guy = MIB, although the man introducd him as “Jacob” to Dogen. And also it just doesn’t seem like it’s Jacob’s character to promise to “bring a dead person back”. It’s what MIB would offer. However, now we know that Smokie can’t travel over water, it’s unlikely that anyone who people meet off the island is MIB… I’m confused!

    By the way, the guy who played Dogen is a very famous actor in Japan, and it was fascinating to see him in LOST![/quote]
    Although somewhat contradictory, I think we are supposed to assume that Dogen’s son was GOING to die or maybe was on life support when Jacob made his offer based on Dogen’s words:

    DOGEN: … I was promoted. My associates took me out to celebrate. I had too much to drink. Every Friday I picked my son up from baseball. He was twelve. The accident was very bad. I survived. But my son…
    [Dogen pauses]
    DOGEN: And then, in the hospital, a man came to me. A man I had never met. And he told me that he could save my son’s life, but I would have to come here… to this island… where I would have a new job. And I could never see my boy again.[/quote]

    Thanks Hammer! I think you’re right. Dogen’s son was probably still arrive when Jacob visited him at the hospital. Now that I re-read their conversation as you wrote, that’s what it meant, and it makes sense that it was definitely Jacob who met Dogen off the island.

    But if so, what do you think was the implication of Dogen’s words to Sayid if he knew that Jacob and MIB are different men?

    (Sayid) Who was the this man?
    (Dogen) His name was Jacob.
    (Sayid) Jacob drives a hard bargain.
    (Dogen) The man outside, I take it he offered you a similar bargain?
    (Sayid) Yes.
    Dogen nods.

    Did Dogen just mean that Jacob and MIB have a similarity, which is to drive a hard bargain when they try to get what they want???

  211. Hammer says:

    Yes mimi, I think they both understood that they were talking about Jacob’s nemesis (MIB, Flocke) and not Jacob when he said “the man outside”. Everyone including the audience should be assuming this.

  212. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="373018"]
    Although – is Jacob REALLY off-island when he seems to be off-island? And is it safe for him to go off-island as long as there is at least one living candidate on the island, to keep the cork in? Is it kind of like turning on the electric fencing and leaving your vicious dog alone at home for a few hours?

    [/quote]
    IMO, Jacob is not trapped and has different rules. Just because Jacob is off island or dead for that matter, MIB still can’t leave (evidenced by the fact that he hasn’t yet). We have just learned that he needs the candidates to all go together….if D&C would just tell us the rules already….

  213. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="373020"]Yes mimi, I think they both understood that they were talking about Jacob’s nemesis (MIB, Flocke) and not Jacob when he said “the man outside”. Everyone including the audience should be assuming this.[/quote]
    Ooops forgot to answer the question. Yes, I think Dogen was letting Sayid know that he knows Jacob’s nemesis would do something similar.

  214. Circus Mom says:

    I think Jacob off island is more than a apperation because he touches people..

    Christian on island is an apperation, at least most of the times we see him. That is why he can’t help Locke to the wheele with the broken leg. The christian that lures Claire away and meets Sun may be different as he holds Aaron and the picture.

  215. londonboy says:

    I’m even more confused about the Christian appearances now. I’d go with Flordia in July’s thought process: if he says he can’t travel across water, then that wasn’t MIB that appeared to Michael on the freighter. If he can simply project himself, then why didn’t he do that with Widmore?

    But the Christian that appears to Michael is dressed exactly the same as the Christian that appears to Clare and to Locke both in the cabin with Clare and down the well. They changed how he dressed when he appeared to Clare – he’d been dressed differently when see by Hurley in Jacob’s cabin, when that other unidentified face appeared. It seems likely that those similarly dressed Christian’s are the same entity. And if one of them can’t be the smoke monster…

    Or I’m wrong about the projection, and they are all MIB. But it seems to me, they are one or the other.

  216. Florida in July says:

    [quote comment="373015"][quote comment="372991"]something I didn’t catch until after doing some reading online (or atleast did not see the connection) was that MIB cannot cross bodies of water. He needs a boat to do so. SO Christian who appeared to Walt’s dad on Witmores ship could not have been smokey. Neither could he/it be Christian when he appeared to Jack in the hospital lobby. This gives creedence to the theory that there are definitly two Christians (MIB version and “good/original” Christian)… I wonder if this also applies to Claire (the one who appeared to Kate in Aarons room) and wierd/crazy Claire…[/quote]
    My current take is that MIB’s ‘being’ can’t travel across water. Apparitions, spirits, illusions, telepathy maybe can. I think what we are to assume is the MIB is trapped on the island. If he ‘appears’ off island…his essence is still trapped. Think of it as as a visual phone call. You can see him, but he’s not there.[/quote]
    ____
    Interesting hammer I had not thought of that. I just find it hard to believe that if the MIB could appear (virtually) in “the real world” what would prevent him “infecting” or “tempting” off-island random/non-candidate people into achieving his own ends (destroying the island/recruiting junior MIB’s to the island to help free him). Of course as in much of L O S T we only get a peek at the whole picture so this could go either way.

    Londonboy, I still think there can be 2 (or 3 for that matter) “Christians.” I would not agree that it has to be one or the other…

  217. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="373023"]I think Jacob off island is more than a apperation because he touches people..

    Christian on island is an apperation, at least most of the times we see him. That is why he can’t help Locke to the wheele with the broken leg. The christian that lures Claire away and meets Sun may be different as he holds Aaron and the picture.[/quote]
    Or maybe he couldn’t help locke because it would break the rules…gotta do it yourself?

  218. londonboy says:

    Hi Flordia, didn’t mean that there is only one Christian, but that the four instances referred to – taking Claire/Aaron, appearing to Michael on the freighter, appearing to Locke with Claire in the cabin and to Locke in the well – are either all MIB or all something other than MIB. There may be more than one Christian, but those appearances are all the same ‘guy’.

  219. wally p says:

    I dont see why there cant be more than one Christian,,, theres more than one Walt, and he’s not even DEAD!

  220. wally p says:

    [quote comment="373015"][quote comment="372991"]something I didn’t catch until after doing some reading online (or atleast did not see the connection) was that MIB cannot cross bodies of water. He needs a boat to do so. SO Christian who appeared to Walt’s dad on Witmores ship could not have been smokey. Neither could he/it be Christian when he appeared to Jack in the hospital lobby. This gives creedence to the theory that there are definitly two Christians (MIB version and “good/original” Christian)… I wonder if this also applies to Claire (the one who appeared to Kate in Aarons room) and wierd/crazy Claire…[/quote]
    My current take is that MIB’s ‘being’ can’t travel across water. Apparitions, spirits, illusions, telepathy maybe can. I think what we are to assume is the MIB is trapped on the island. If he ‘appears’ off island…his essence is still trapped. Think of it as as a visual phone call. You can see him, but he’s not there.[/quote]

    I’ve been on that idea for a while…

    When Faraday was in time and he talkd to Desmond, he did it SO that Desmond in 2007 would remember it… knowing that off island it was now 2007 (or some such, whatever year it was then…)
    The Desmond that Faraday was talking to was essentially a shadow of the past, but since it is Desmonds past, Desmond in 2007 will remember this conversation instantly because it is happening.

    MIB has mastered this ability, and therefore could have been a million other places, dimensions, or times, all along. In order to mesh into the current time line in the way he needed to… I think the Flash Sideways we are seeing is the timeline that he’s after.

  221. Belle says:

    [quote comment="372951"][quote comment="372942"]
    The guy next to Richard on the boat said the island is protected by the devil when he saw the statue. [/quote]

    I think we need to keep in mind that the character speaking was a delirious prisoner, probably half dead from starvation and dehydration, looking through a small slat, in a raging storm, with a near pitch black sky, with little more than flashes of lightning to light the sky, at a stature of Tawaret (the Egyptian Goddess of Fertility – confirmed as such by D&C). I think MAYBE, we don’t have to take this minor character’s word for it.

    : ) P[/quote]

    I would also add that the man was very superstitious.

    I’m wondering if the name “Kwon” only refers to Jin. In traditional Korean, when a woman marries she keeps her last name. Sun’s last name should still be Paik. Perhaps the writers used the same last name so people wouldn’t be confused. Just a thought.

  222. B. Laesch says:

    Is she single?

  223. Belle says:

    [quote comment="373213"]Is she single?[/quote]

    On the island they are married but not in the FSW.

  224. HollyP says:

    [quote comment="372925"]So if the plane can take off why didn’t they do that right after they landed? My assumption was that the plane was damaged to the point that it could not take off. Anyone know what Lapidus said about the planes status after they landed?[/quote]

    Lapidus said in no unequivocal terms that the plane cannot fly off the island. The windshield is broken and the landing strip is too short for takeoff. I think there is also insufficient fuel.

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