Across The Sea

Across The Sea - Lost - Season 6
After what was arguably the best episode of this season, tonight we get the backstory on MIB and Jacob, and with that hopefully answers to some of the lingering questions as we enter the final stretch of the series over the course of the next few weeks.

Synopsis

“The motives of John Locke are finally explained.”

Episode Preview

Sneak Peeks

Sneak Peek 1 | Sneak Peek 2

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440 Responses to Across The Sea

  1. Jack's Shephard says:

    TONIGHT WILL BE EPIC!!! ALLISON JANEY!!!

  2. LostGrrl says:

    How can employers rationally expect productivity in these next 2 weeks? Just can’t wait for tonight’s ep, which they’ve been saying is mind-blowing. Ahh! Can’t… focus… on… work.

  3. Mateo says:

    Remember people, they extended the finale to 2&1/2 hrs so on your DVRs make sure that day records the 2&1/2. Also I would go into your settings and adjust your DVR to record 5 mins later after shows just incase it cuts off. I always see people writing on this blog asking for endings bc their DVR cut off. Just change your settings to keep recording 5-10 mins after program.

    Jimmy Kimmel has a LOST special after with the creators & most of the cast, so you should record that too!

    I’ll miss all the theories & opinions on this blog :(

  4. Lind says:

    So exciting! An episode about MIB and Jacob!

    I wonder the meaning of “Across the Sea”…

  5. Miraks says:

    No more sailing for Desmond!

    Somewhere beyond the sea
    somewhere waiting for me
    my lover stands on golden sands
    and watches the ships that go sailin’

    Somewhere beyond the sea
    she’s there watching for me
    If I could fly like birds on high
    then straight to her arms
    I’d go sailin’

    It’s far beyond the stars
    it’s near beyond the moon
    I know beyond a doubt
    my heart will lead me there soon

    We’ll meet beyond the shore
    we’ll kiss just as before
    Happy we’ll be beyond the sea
    and never again I’ll go sailin’

    I know beyond a doubt
    my heart will lead me there soon
    We’ll meet (I know we’ll meet) beyond the shore
    We’ll kiss just as before
    Happy we’ll be beyond the sea
    and never again I’ll go sailin’

    no more sailin’
    so long sailin’
    bye bye sailin’…
    move on out captain

  6. Duke says:

    In 12 short days LOST will be over. We shall never see a show that capturesour hearts, minds, and imaginations as this truly EPIC show has done. All season I have viewed each episode and felt a little disaapointed. Not in the writing or acting or anything else to do with the show. It was the knowledge that we were on the downhill slope towards the end. I can honestly say that no show that I have ever viewed has allowed me the great joy that LOST has provided. Even when the episodes weren’t great (Stranger in a Strangeland) it always left me wanting more. I could always look ahead knowing that another episode was just around the corner. This blog has been here to help bridge the gap between episodes/seasons and despite my many feuds with other LOST devotees over what things meant (yes, hammer this means you and that stupid runway) I have enjoyed every single minute of it. Although I do not think that all mysteries will be revealed a truly great show should leave you wanting more. One of the things that makes this show great is each individual viewer having the ability to interpret things their own way based on their own experiences.

    LOST you will forever hold a special place inside of me for capturing not only my heart but my mind as well. I cannot think of how to properly express what a great time we have had together so I will leave you with a simple thanks. Thanks for the great writing, the exceptional acting, and for giving me a television show that made me think long after each episode had aired.

  7. Larla says:

    [quote comment="374163"]In 12 short days LOST will be over. We shall never see a show that capturesour hearts, minds, and imaginations as this truly EPIC show has done. All season I have viewed each episode and felt a little disaapointed. Not in the writing or acting or anything else to do with the show. It was the knowledge that we were on the downhill slope towards the end. I can honestly say that no show that I have ever viewed has allowed me the great joy that LOST has provided. Even when the episodes weren’t great (Stranger in a Strangeland) it always left me wanting more. I could always look ahead knowing that another episode was just around the corner. This blog has been here to help bridge the gap between episodes/seasons and despite my many feuds with other LOST devotees over what things meant (yes, hammer this means you and that stupid runway) I have enjoyed every single minute of it. Although I do not think that all mysteries will be revealed a truly great show should leave you wanting more. One of the things that makes this show great is each individual viewer having the ability to interpret things their own way based on their own experiences.

    LOST you will forever hold a special place inside of me for capturing not only my heart but my mind as well. I cannot think of how to properly express what a great time we have had together so I will leave you with a simple thanks. Thanks for the great writing, the exceptional acting, and for giving me a television show that made me think long after each episode had aired.[/quote]

    Well said, Duke!

  8. Jason says:

    [quote comment="374164"][quote comment="374163"]In 12 short days LOST will be over. We shall never see a show that capturesour hearts, minds, and imaginations as this truly EPIC show has done. All season I have viewed each episode and felt a little disaapointed. Not in the writing or acting or anything else to do with the show. It was the knowledge that we were on the downhill slope towards the end. I can honestly say that no show that I have ever viewed has allowed me the great joy that LOST has provided. Even when the episodes weren’t great (Stranger in a Strangeland) it always left me wanting more. I could always look ahead knowing that another episode was just around the corner. This blog has been here to help bridge the gap between episodes/seasons and despite my many feuds with other LOST devotees over what things meant (yes, hammer this means you and that stupid runway) I have enjoyed every single minute of it. Although I do not think that all mysteries will be revealed a truly great show should leave you wanting more. One of the things that makes this show great is each individual viewer having the ability to interpret things their own way based on their own experiences.

    LOST you will forever hold a special place inside of me for capturing not only my heart but my mind as well. I cannot think of how to properly express what a great time we have had together so I will leave you with a simple thanks. Thanks for the great writing, the exceptional acting, and for giving me a television show that made me think long after each episode had aired.[/quote]

    Well said, Duke![/quote]
    __________________________________________
    Wow, I’m moved…..I’m wiping a tear from my eye……

  9. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374163"] This blog has been here to help bridge the gap between episodes/seasons and despite my many feuds with other LOST devotees over what things meant (yes, hammer this means you and that stupid runway) I have enjoyed every single minute of it. [/quote]

    Too funny Duke. That was an interesting debate eh?

    Well said at any rate.

  10. Miss lost says:

    I also got a bit sappy! It will be sad when it is over….but so worth the ride!

  11. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="374163"]In 12 short days LOST will be over. We shall never see a show that capturesour hearts, minds, and imaginations as this truly EPIC show has done. All season I have viewed each episode and felt a little disaapointed. Not in the writing or acting or anything else to do with the show. It was the knowledge that we were on the downhill slope towards the end. I can honestly say that no show that I have ever viewed has allowed me the great joy that LOST has provided. Even when the episodes weren’t great (Stranger in a Strangeland) it always left me wanting more. I could always look ahead knowing that another episode was just around the corner. This blog has been here to help bridge the gap between episodes/seasons and despite my many feuds with other LOST devotees over what things meant (yes, hammer this means you and that stupid runway) I have enjoyed every single minute of it. Although I do not think that all mysteries will be revealed a truly great show should leave you wanting more. One of the things that makes this show great is each individual viewer having the ability to interpret things their own way based on their own experiences.

    LOST you will forever hold a special place inside of me for capturing not only my heart but my mind as well. I cannot think of how to properly express what a great time we have had together so I will leave you with a simple thanks. Thanks for the great writing, the exceptional acting, and for giving me a television show that made me think long after each episode had aired.[/quote]

    I agree. No matter what the finale will turn out like, this show has been worth the ride. No other show has made me reach for books long forgotten, new books to be read, and , of course, google like crazy. I will sorely miss this amazing show.

  12. Skate says:

    [quote comment="374163"]In 12 short days LOST will be over. We shall never see a show that capturesour hearts, minds, and imaginations as this truly EPIC show has done.

    Duke….
    So well said. I am actually grieving over the end of this show. These characters mean more to me than I ever imagined any fictional character could or probably should…How did they do that? The end of LOST leaves a huge void.
    Thanks to everyone who had a part in bringing it to us these last 6 years.

  13. LizS says:

    Here, here, Duke! Well said.

    It’s really hard to believe we’re almost done. Sniff. This show has made me think, made me mad, made me spend a lot of time reading this blog–lol, all good. And this blog island has been a great place to share the ups and downs, read some really wonderful theories, and argue stuff [or watch others argue ; ) ]

    Thank you, dear blog owners/managers!!!

  14. LostLove says:

    Will there be a new episode next week Tuesday?? Or after tonight, is it just the 2.5 hr on May 23rd?

  15. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374172"]Will there be a new episode next week Tuesday?? Or after tonight, is it just the 2.5 hr on May 23rd?[/quote]
    There is an episode next Tuesday.

  16. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374173"][quote comment="374172"]Will there be a new episode next week Tuesday?? Or after tonight, is it just the 2.5 hr on May 23rd?[/quote]
    There is an episode next Tuesday.[/quote]
    Thanks Hammer. I still say if there are any “mysteries” still hanging open, they won’t be very important or vital to the whole story. All of my questions seem to be getting answered.

  17. Skull-fckrs says:

    This is the episode we have been aching for! My comment may a rambling rant but this show is such rich fodder for thought. .

    So I’ve been tossing around a few ideas as the show rockets towards it’s demise. This week is the big Jacob and smoke episode. So I’ve been at thought as to what is their stories. For a show steeped in subtlety, the concept of Jacob the good and smokey the bad is too black and white. I believe Jacob, like his namesake is not the Ray of sunshine he projects. It is said that Jacob stole his body. Perhaps Jacob tricked smokey, Promising him  something he deeply desired( like he did with nadia and issabella) and then trapped him. Smokey is a shapeshifter, one who is without form. Perhaps Jacob stole his form, trapping him in this realm. Smokes mother was insane. Perhaps she was possessed as is Claire. She is driven to madness and birthed smoke, who being born of the possessed is corrupted at birth. Obviously the island has a past, a long and complex path. It is not just an island, but a focus, a singularity. It’s powers foster the great civilization that sprouts around it, hence the temples, the four toed statue.these relics tie in with other great civilization that had perished. Some theorize that the lost great cultures were spanned by ancient travelers, men from another realm, aliens of sorts. The electromagnetic forces behind the islands powers have obvious temporal and geographic distortion powers. Linus turns the wheel and ends up in the desert. The box can manifest whatever one desires. What if the island served as an ancient seat of power. A hub which connected the vast vistas of space and time. The island is a cultural  stew Stew, full of references to a multitude of cultural empires. Christianity, Egyptian and Mayan references abound. Perhaps the rulers of the islands past seeded these cultures, their ability of transcend time helped build these empires, but as we know power corrupts and internal power struggles on the island causes the collapse of the Mayan, Egyptian, atlantian empires. If smokeys mother was a queen, possessed and mothers a demon of sorts, then the mystic or spiritual advisors would seek to end this plague. The inability of the inhabitants to mother children could have stemmed from a curse upon the people for their betrayal. Claire and Arron may be the reincarnation of sorts of this pair. Perhaps she was sane and then as her son was stolen or betrayed by Jacob she went mad cursing her people to a life barren of the innocence of a child. This would be reflected in Rousseau and alex, Claire and Arron. Or perhaps, it will play off it’s biblical namesake in entirety. What if Jacob and smokey are brothers. Explorers in search of Eden, of the fountain of immortality. Ben was changed by the waters, his spirit tainted. Perhaps Jacob knew of the waters, and took smokey there and tricked him to partake of the forbidden fruit so to speak.I think the story of jacob is mired in their youth. If Jacob stole his mortal shell,what if the small boy they see that he fears so is himself. The lost youth that is no longer, the embodiment of his lost innocence and his fall from grace. It is a reminder of Jacobs power and all that was stolen from him. the canidates seem to represent the sins of humanity. Not caused by malice but by fate. Kate kills to prevent abuse, Sawyer hunts for justice. In order for them to replace Jacob, the sinner must find redemption. this is the crux of the pact that Binds Jacob and smokey. Perhaps smokey was once a tool of this now lost civilization, a weapon to maintain order. He was used and transformed, robbed of his humanity to protect and defend the island, his home and prison. After centuries of this role, Jacob makes a wager, a social experiment in redemption, the possibility of transcendence from corrupt sinners to the return of Eden. 
    Maybe this is Eden, which has not survived unscathed from the fall. We were once blessed or cursed with immortality. Those touched or chosen by the island are protected. But reproduction is a byproduct of mortality. The electromagnetic field may prevent reproduction, as reproduction of immortals is a power of the gods, and left unchecked such immortals would consume the. Earth. Death is a necessity, without which life would lack meaning. Death is an arrow of time. The arrow of entropy which must increase. Without smokey there is no arrow of time. The fundamental laws of the universe collapse. And where is our little friend Ben? I think he’s planning whit mores demise. He broke the rules when he killed the lovely alex. As lock appears close to defeating whit more, whit more will reveal his hand, turning the tides Ben will find redemption and revenge as he kills off whitmore, saving the candidate and blowing minds  

  18. Belle says:

    Miraks, RE:post#5

    What a wonderful poem! Did you write that? It’s so touching.

    Well said Duke and everyone else. I only wish I had found this blog sooner. I used to talk with friends about the show but many of them gave up because they were CONFUSED. They’d rather veg out watching “reality” shows. GAG! There has been a few really good shows over the years but none that stimulated your brain into working overtime and caused so much debate and theorizing. It’s very depressing that this is the end.

    I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s theories and opinions. Thank you for being here.

  19. Belle says:

    Evangeline Lilly was on The View this morning and she said the ending will stay true to LOST but won’t be a cop out. So we can expect to still be a bit Lost and confused. That’s OK, we will have something to talk about.

  20. LizS says:

    [quote comment="374177"]Evangeline Lilly was on The View this morning and she said the ending will stay true to LOST but won’t be a cop out. So we can expect to still be a bit Lost and confused. That’s OK, we will have something to talk about.[/quote]
    LOL, that sounds about right, doesn’t it?

  21. Amber says:

    SOOOOO excited about this episode!!! Jacob and the MIB characters are little hotties!lol I feel like we will get a lot of answers this ep.

  22. Belle says:

    RE: post #17

    Skull, interesting read. Just a few things, didn’t the inability to have children occur after the Incident? Before that Amy and Horace had their lovely son Ethan. :P

    Concerning the box that Ben told John about, other than Ben claiming the box brought Locke’s father to the island, have we seen the box manifest anyone’s desires? Where is the box? Seems strange it would be on The Black Rock. I question anything Ben says since he’s a liar, although it could be true. Actually, I don’t see why MIB didn’t have Ben killed and take his form. There’s a whole list of people who would have loved to kill him. MIB is also a liar so their personalities are very much the same. Just kidding of course. The LOSTIES wouldn’t have followed Ben and he wasn’t a Candidate. I guess we will have to wait until tonight to find out if Jacob did steal MIB’s body and if he loved someone once as he claimed.

    If it was Eden at one time, immortality would have been a blessing since there wouldn’t have been any evil or corruption.

    Your theory of the immortals reminds me of Highlander. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE and hopefully it would be a man of character otherwise mankind is doomed.

  23. LizS says:

    re: Jacob & MIB-I wouldn’t be surprised if they were brothers–that could be very interesting!

    I hope we find out who the kid in the forest is.

    Jacob said the island is the stopper in the bottle that keeps hell at bay. So is MIB an agent of hell? Stuck on the stopper and can’t go back to hell or out into the world?

    Maybe the 2 of them were explorers–how long have they been there? Both arriving at the same time, or one there before the other?

    Did Jacob maybe open the door to hell a little, then out comes smokey? So then Jacob found a way to keep him there, and not any farther?

    Sooooo curious!

  24. Skull-fckrs says:

    That’s true belle. Wasn’t Ethan born on the island? Even if immortality is not an issue I think there are interesting parallels between Claire, Rousseau and smokies mysterious loco Madre. I’m also so curious about Eloise hawking. She seems to transcend the gulf between the two islands without effort. She’s been secretly calling shots behind the scenes since dezzy bought the ring. She reminds me of the weavers of fate, tying together the loose strings of both realities. With a show like this, anything is possible. I keep hoping for the most implausible scenarios, like during the locke/ whit more battle a helicopter appears, and you just see a close up of the pilots helmet with a barely visible reflection of a small blonde child, and as they all look up in confusion, the pilot lifts his visor to reveal it’s walt.

  25. Pad says:

    aye mate I think your going off on a bit of a tangent myself, I’m a big lost fan, but theres no way their going to answer everythin. I reckon thon polar bear is actually Jack in a suit, and hes been posing as this polar bear througout… decieving us all into thinking hes a doctor and a candidate. but i know better. hes nothing but a big smelly polar bear. ps, I would find it very discouraging if beyond a visor we could faintly make out a reflection of a small blonde child, that would be walt. Walt is black you fool. God bless.

  26. Belle says:

    I believe that’s true also Skull. There’s got to be a connection with the crazy mom theme. I think it will be explained, I hope.

  27. huck finn says:

    Hello Y’All.

    Just saying hello.

  28. Belle says:

    Others have speculated that Jack’s grandfather Ray is somehow connected to the story. I’m wondering if we won’t see Christian again. His body is missing in both time lines and deserves an explanation.

    I’m reminded of one of several conversations between Jack and his father.

    Christian: Telling of the story when the boy died that he was operating on. “Everybody’s looking to your old man to make decisions. (This role was thrust upon Jack after the crash)And I was able to make those decisions because at the end of the day, after the boy died, I was able to wash my hands, come home to dinner, watch a little Carol Burnett and laugh ’till my sides hurt. And how can I do that? I mean, even when I fail, how do I do that, Jack? Because I have what it takes. (Sounds callous to me)Don’t choose Jack. Don’t decide. You don’t want to be a hero. You don’t want to try and save everyone. Because when you fail… You just don’t have what it takes.”
    Sounds like something MIB would say to discourage Jack from doing what he needed to do on the island. Jack did doubt himself, was afraid of failing and knew he wasn’t good at letting go. He didn’t think he was capable of being a leader but he was the first one to run around the beach and be just that- a hero and a leader. The girl that gave him the tattoo said she had a gift to read people and Jack was a leader. Exactly what is the letting go? Is Jack supposed to not care about people or try to save them? I think it’s an admirable quality.

  29. Hammer says:

    Ah yes…the evil twin.

  30. Mr. $tuart says:

    Oh for crying out loud! For real? For real? This is just ridiculous.

  31. Larla says:

    Did anybody follow that? What is the “light”?

  32. Ben says:

    Agreed

  33. way_lost says:

    Doesn’t seem evil…just a normal kid. Jacob is the weird one. So is the cave like the fountain of youth? Is that how MIB made Alpert like that as well? He used the light from the cave?

  34. way_lost says:

    Jacob can’t see his dead mother, but MIB can??? I think MIB is the good guy>

  35. Mateo says:

    FYI: Ben didn’t tell John that John’s father came to him from a box. He told John an example in words he would understand, something like “John, lets say there is a box, and whateveer you….” There is no actual box.

  36. way_lost says:

    So…Jacob and his phony ass crazy mom make-up this game I’ve been wasting my time with the last 6 years> great!

  37. way_lost says:

    Ugh…I hope MIB gets to finally go home. I never thought I would say it. This is so funny because I was just telling my g/f last week that I had a feeling there would be a craaaazy twist at the end. Never saw this though.

  38. Mr. $tuart says:

    Is it just me or is this a HORRIBLE episode? I have a feeling that there will be some people who are excited about “answers”, but I’m really disappointed at the BS they’re throwing our way this episode.

  39. way_lost says:

    I agree Mr.$. I think the obvious white is good, black is bad thing steered me towards a different kind of ending. So who killed all of MIB peeps? That chick is crazy…what was she chanting when she gave Jacob the wine (blood) whatever it was?

  40. Bruno says:

    I am beginning to have a bad feeling about this. I hope it picks up, and the sooner the better.

  41. way_lost says:

    Man. How cheesy can you get? Seriously?

  42. T says:

    Cuse & Co. You blew. That Sucked!

  43. Larla says:

    I’m still confused by the light – did anyone understand what the “source” means? Where is PJ Sander when you need her? :)

  44. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="374200"]I am beginning to have a bad feeling about this. I hope it picks up, and the sooner the better.[/quote]
    [quote comment="374201"]Man. How cheesy can you get? Seriously?[/quote]

    All mythology, at its core, is cheesy. Take a look at any myth, any legend, any religion, and its stories are crazy, far-fetched, and ultimately very similar. In the end, each person accepts or rejects.

    To me, I accept – hands held out – begging my masters (D&C) for more. I loved the episode – that it gave us answers to some of the most significant questions – yet left some of the real mystery to us. We will never know MIB’s name, probably because he never had one. That’s okay by me.

    : ) P

  45. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="374203"]I’m still confused by the light – did anyone understand what the “source” means? Where is PJ Sander when you need her? :)[/quote]

    Thanks, Larla! LOL

    To me, the light is the same light that guides any mythology, any religion. That which cannot be explained must be simply accepted in faith. In the case of the island, the light is electromagnetic – but of course, Jacob, his brother and his mother, have not yet figured that out.

    Faith?
    Science?

    Faith in what is, until science explains.

    : ) P

  46. DANTE says:

    wow adam and eve explained, MIB has no name only referred to as brother to jacob, at least we know why jacob likes to make cloth.
    Jacob took his body and left his soul. smokey is probaly the heart of the island wondering and jacob must ensure the heart does not leave or else… the island may sink(FSW)

  47. Nicole says:

    was it my imagination or did the light go out when “Smokey” is released?

  48. Hammer says:

    I agree PJ…I don’t want to defend all night so I’ll check in tomorrow to see if the mood changes here…nite all.

  49. MT says:

    I’m curious who the mom was. Just one of a long line of people trying to protect the light/island? Then her potential replacement candidates showed up when the twins were born?

  50. DANTE says:

    [quote comment="374207"]was it my imagination or did the light go out when “Smokey” is released?[/quote]
    yes it did atleast thats what i saw as well

  51. DANTE says:

    [quote comment="374209"]I’m curious who the mom was. Just one of a long line of people trying to protect the light/island? Then her potential replacement candidates showed up when the twins were born?[/quote]
    i think the old lady was the first one to come to the island and has brought others to the island in search of a replacement, to protect or keep the heart of the island from leaving hence smokey is the soul and heart of the island jacob must keep it on the island

  52. Larla says:

    [quote comment="374205"][quote comment="374203"]I’m still confused by the light – did anyone understand what the “source” means? Where is PJ Sander when you need her? :)[/quote]

    Thanks, Larla! LOL

    To me, the light is the same light that guides any mythology, any religion. That which cannot be explained must be simply accepted in faith. In the case of the island, the light is electromagnetic – but of course, Jacob, his brother and his mother, have not yet figured that out.

    Faith?
    Science?

    Faith in what is, until science explains.

    : ) P[/quote]

    Thank you, PJ! You seriously should have had an Al Trautwig-style synopsis each week after the show!

  53. Lost Theorist says:

    This could explain the light…

    “Manichaeism taught an elaborate cosmology describing the struggle between a good, spiritual world of light, and an evil, material world of darkness. Through an ongoing process which takes place in human history, light is gradually removed from the world of matter and returned to the world of light from which it came”.

    Still looking for more clues…

  54. way_lost says:

    It definitely gave us answers. I’m just not sure I like them. So what exactly is MIB then? Did crazy lady plan all of that> PJ, you can not honestly say that you wanted to find out that Jacob was a big sucker/ chump> and that MIB was the realist who got screwed.

  55. Skull-fckrs says:

    Wait… Walt is black? No way. The blonde boy was Arron and walt was flying him in rambo style. And wasn’t the polar bear just a bad suit before they cleaned it up with cgi? Maybe it was Jack in the suit.

  56. way_lost says:

    Technically they both got screwed. Jacob was second fiddle…

  57. Lost Theorist says:

    Wow, I read on and it gets more interesting (wikipedia source)
    Mircea Eliade, summarizing bar-Konai’s Syriac narration[7], describes the Manichaean cosmogony in his A History of Religious Ideas:

    In the beginning…the two “natures” or “substances”, light and obscurity, good and evil, God and matter, coexisted, separated by a frontier. In the North reigned the Father of Greatness…in the South, the Prince of Darkness…the “disorderly motion” of matter drove the Prince of Darkness toward the upper frontier of his kingdom. Seeing the splendor of light, he is fired by the desire to conquer it. It is then that the Father decides that he will himself repulse the adversary. He…projects from himself, the Mother of Life, who…projects a new hypostasis, the Primordial Man…With his five sons, who are…his “soul” and “armor” made from five lights, the Primordial Man descends to the frontier. He challenges the darkness, but he is conquered, and his sons are devoured by the demons…This defeat marks the beginning of the cosmic “mixture”, but at the same time it insures the final triumph of God. For obscurity (matter) now possesses a portion of light…and the Father, preparing its deliverance, at the same time arranges for his definitive victory against darkness. In a second Creation, the Father “evokes” the Living Spirit, which, descending toward obscurity, grasps the hand of the Primordial Man and raises him to his celestial homeland, the Paradise of Lights. Overwhelming the demonic Archontes, the Living Spirit fashions the heavens from their skins, the mountains from their bones, the earth from their flesh and their excretments…In addition, he achieves a first deliverance of light by creating the sun, the moon, and the stars from portions of it that had not suffered too much from contact with obscurity. Finally, the Father proceeds to a last evocation and projects by emanation the Third Messenger. The latter organizes the cosmos into a kind of machine to collect – and…to deliver – the still-captive particles of light. During the first two weeks of the month, the particles rise to the moon, which becomes a full moon; during the second two weeks, light is transferred from the moon to the sun and, finally, to its celestial homeland. But there were still the particles that had been swallowed by the demons. Then the messenger displays himself to the male demons in the form of a dazzling naked virgin, while the female demons see him as a handsome naked young man…fired by desire, the male demons…give forth their semen, and, with it, the light that they had swallowed. Fallen to the ground, their semen gives birth to all the vegetable species. As for the female devils who were already pregnant, at the sight of the handsome young man they give birth to abortions, which, cast onto the ground, eat the buds of trees, thus assimilating the light that they contained. Alarmed by the Third Messenger’s tactics, matter, personified as Concupiscence, decides to create a stronger prison around the still-captive particles of light. Two demons, one male, the other female, devour all the abortions in order to absorb the totality of light, and they then couple. Thus Adam and Eve were engendered.[19]

    Talks about “particles” (smoky?), abortions (women cannot give birth on the island), Adam and Eve, etc. What do you all think???

  58. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="374214"]PJ, you can not honestly say that you wanted to find out that Jacob was a big sucker chump and that MIB was the realist who got screwed.[/quote]

    It was good to see they were both human – flawed, real characters, just like our LOSTies. We are all what we came from; what we made of ourselves because of, and often in spite of, what we came from. No one has to like it, but there really is no escaping it.

    : ) P

  59. Lostcols says:

    So, it looks like I may have been right that MIB was actually the good one? Or am I totally confused?

  60. Nicole says:

    Mom chanted something that sounded like latin. I am going to have to go back and watch it again. Though I am sure someone will figure it out ;-) Got to watch it cause I think I missed quite a bit.

  61. way_lost says:

    Lost Theorist>> I don’t think that MIB is evil.

  62. MT says:

    [quote comment="374211"][quote comment="374209"]I’m curious who the mom was. Just one of a long line of people trying to protect the light/island? Then her potential replacement candidates showed up when the twins were born?[/quote]
    i think the old lady was the first one to come to the island and has brought others to the island in search of a replacement, to protect or keep the heart of the island from leaving hence smokey is the soul and heart of the island jacob must keep it on the island[/quote]

    The mom told Jacob to promise he would never go down that hole into the light, or he would be “worse than dead”. So since MIB did go down the hole into the light and came out as smoke monster, we presume he’s now “worse than dead”. How does that tie in with him being the soul and heart of the island?

  63. DANTE says:

    [quote comment="374221"]Lost Theorist>> I don’t think that MIB is evil.[/quote]
    me either he his a man of science and is a logical thinker, while jacob believes soo much into the island

  64. way_lost says:

    PJ is totally correct. It is what it is. How did Jacob get so good at traveling through time and finding everybody? Did he do it after the crash? Now that I know he was always mortal makes me even more confused about the whole plan…candidates and so on.

  65. DANTE says:

    [quote comment="374222"][quote comment="374211"][quote comment="374209"]I’m curious who the mom was. Just one of a long line of people trying to protect the light/island? Then her potential replacement candidates showed up when the twins were born?[/quote]
    i think the old lady was the first one to come to the island and has brought others to the island in search of a replacement, to protect or keep the heart of the island from leaving hence smokey is the soul and heart of the island jacob must keep it on the island[/quote]

    The mom told Jacob to promise he would never go down that hole into the light, or he would be “worse than dead”. So since MIB did go down the hole into the light and came out as smoke monster, we presume he’s now “worse than dead”. How does that tie in with him being the soul and heart of the island?[/quote]
    the smoke monster is part of the island a living thing keeping the island from possibly dying maybe, the island is something a living thing maybe remember when John Locke first saw the smoke monster he had said he looked into the soul of the island

  66. Skull-fckrs says:

    The Adam and eve resolution was clever. Thankfully smokie was redeemed and not cast as evil incarnate. now we understand the underlying frustration of jacob, as the second best son. About the wine, isn’t that the same jug that smokie broke? Was Jacob trying to pass the lights responsibility to smokie as it was passed to him. He never wanted the responsibility either. Such a cross to bear. Did dharma rebuild the donkey wheel? The light turned dark but I think it still shines bright. The light is both life and death. All the life and death on the island is the result of this life spring. When smokes falls in the balance is lost, and all that has died before is set free, hence the smoke and the lights or souls within. The light still shines when Bennie turns the wheel.

  67. G455 says:

    WOW! first time poster and long watcher.. I thought this was a great episode!.. Curious why the crazy mom said thank you to MIB after he killed her?Cause she knew she couldn’t kill herself just like richard and the rest?

  68. way_lost says:

    I think MIB finds his dead body and re-inhabits it…even though the body actually stays in the caves. Like when MIB became Locke. Once he could walk around like a man again he finished the wheel. Or maybe Jacob finished it…

  69. Hammer says:

    Glad I checked back.

    I think the light may be the door way to hell. MIB went in and came out…”worse than dead” according to killer mom.

  70. MT says:

    [quote comment="374225"][quote comment="374222"][quote comment="374211"][quote comment="374209"]I’m curious who the mom was. Just one of a long line of people trying to protect the light/island? Then her potential replacement candidates showed up when the twins were born?[/quote]
    i think the old lady was the first one to come to the island and has brought others to the island in search of a replacement, to protect or keep the heart of the island from leaving hence smokey is the soul and heart of the island jacob must keep it on the island[/quote]

    The mom told Jacob to promise he would never go down that hole into the light, or he would be “worse than dead”. So since MIB did go down the hole into the light and came out as smoke monster, we presume he’s now “worse than dead”. How does that tie in with him being the soul and heart of the island?[/quote]
    the smoke monster is part of the island a living thing keeping the island from possibly dying maybe, the island is something a living thing maybe remember when John Locke first saw the smoke monster he had said he looked into the soul of the island[/quote]

    Interesting. The mom may have been lying about what she said, since she lied about a lot of other things too.

  71. way_lost says:

    Ok ok ok. So, how much does Widmore know about MIB and Jacob? How were they (widmore/Dharma) allowed to build so close to the wheel. Remember the time machine? Was that planned?

  72. Anne says:

    I do not think after watching this episode that the smoke monster (MIB) is the same thing/person as Jacob’s brother. Jacob’s brother was shown to clearly die and his body is still in the cave next to his phony mother. I think the smoke monster inhabited his body in the early times that we see interaction between Jacob and MIB. We now see Smokie as Locke. It is interesting to me that Jacob’s brother had this deep desire to leave the Island, but he wanted to leave for a much different reason than Smokie does, IMO.

    I hold to the belief that Smokie is evil and should not leave the island. Jacob was the protector of that evil leaving the island. Likewise, Flocke should not leave the island and will somehow be prevented from doing so with a new protector/candidate coming to light.

  73. victor says:

    random thought.

    when Flocke was walking Sawyer through the jungle child Jacob showed up and said ‘you can’t kill him’.

    Anyone think BLOND Sawyer might somehow be from a Jacob genealogy. Hence, Flocke can’t kill him because he’s a little piece of Jacob (if the light in is everyone then can’t a little piece of Jacob be in everyone).

    That would also suggest the brunettes (e.g. Jack & Kate) are from the Flocke genealogy.

    And there’s a parallel with Jack / Claire siblings (Dark / Blond) and Flocke / Jacob siblings (Dark / Blond).

    Any theory is probably possible at this point.

  74. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="374222"]The mom told Jacob to promise he would never go down that hole into the light, or he would be “worse than dead”. So since MIB did go down the hole into the light and came out as smoke monster, we presume he’s now “worse than dead”. How does that tie in with him being the soul and heart of the island?[/quote]

    The mother could very well have been passing along her version of the story told to her. Just like the bogeyman, the devil, Osiris, Hades, Mictlan, and hell have been used for thousands of years to scare people into following rules, so might this story have been told.

    : ) P

  75. Man from Tallahassee says:

    Worse than “Expose” from season 3!

  76. MT says:

    [quote comment="374232"]I do not think after watching this episode that the smoke monster (MIB) is the same thing/person as Jacob’s brother. Jacob’s brother was shown to clearly die and his body is still in the cave next to his phony mother. I think the smoke monster inhabited his body in the early times that we see interaction between Jacob and MIB. We now see Smokie as Locke. It is interesting to me that Jacob’s brother had this deep desire to leave the Island, but he wanted to leave for a much different reason than Smokie does, IMO.

    I hold to the belief that Smokie is evil and should not leave the island. Jacob was the protector of that evil leaving the island. Likewise, Flocke should not leave the island and will somehow be prevented from doing so with a new protector/candidate coming to light.[/quote]

    ok, so are you saying that the smoke monster was down in that light the whole time, and somehow MIB’s body ending up down there threw everything out of whack and allowed the smoke monster to be set free? Also, the mom told Jacob he was to protect the light, not prevent evil leaving the island.

  77. MT says:

    [quote comment="374234"][quote comment="374222"]The mom told Jacob to promise he would never go down that hole into the light, or he would be “worse than dead”. So since MIB did go down the hole into the light and came out as smoke monster, we presume he’s now “worse than dead”. How does that tie in with him being the soul and heart of the island?[/quote]

    The mother could very well have been passing along her version of the story told to her. Just like the bogeyman, the devil, Osiris, Hades, Mictlan, and hell have been used for thousands of years to scare people into following rules, so might this story have been told.

    : ) P[/quote]

    good theory, thanks!

  78. way_lost says:

    So “one day Jacob you can make up rules to your own game”. I guess the whole>>who can, or can not kill certain people rules are part of Jacob’s game? So then, why couldn’t MIB kill Desmond in the well? Why don’t the rules apply to Desmond?

    Did Desmond go into the light the day he turned the key…just like MIB? I bet he did.

  79. illost says:

    Locke cant kill sawyer because he cant kill any of the candidates. And does anyone think its intersesting that when christian came back alive, his body was gone. when the smoke monster turned into locke and jacobs brother their bodies stayed there.

  80. Anne says:

    I hold to the belief that Smokie is evil and should not leave the island. Jacob was the protector of that evil leaving the island. Likewise, Flocke should not leave the island and will somehow be prevented from doing so with a new protector/candidate coming to light.[/quote]

    ok, so are you saying that the smoke monster was down in that light the whole time, and somehow MIB’s body ending up down there threw everything out of whack and allowed the smoke monster to be set free? Also, the mom told Jacob he was to protect the light, not prevent evil leaving the island.[/quote]
    ——————————————————
    I think it is possible that Smokie was down there the whole time. That is why Jacob’s mother said not to go down there and that he would be worse off than dead. Yes, she did say to protect the light. Maybe the mom didn’t know exactly what would happen or that Smokie existed. Light vs evil is not the same as good vs evil. The Bible often refers to Satan as the “Angel of Light.” Could be that this light is not necessarily good and needs to stay on the island.

  81. Sassafras says:

    [quote comment="374232"]I do not think after watching this episode that the smoke monster (MIB) is the same thing/person as Jacob’s brother. Jacob’s brother was shown to clearly die and his body is still in the cave next to his phony mother. I think the smoke monster inhabited his body in the early times that we see interaction between Jacob and MIB. We now see Smokie as Locke. It is interesting to me that Jacob’s brother had this deep desire to leave the Island, but he wanted to leave for a much different reason than Smokie does, IMO.

    I hold to the belief that Smokie is evil and should not leave the island. Jacob was the protector of that evil leaving the island. Likewise, Flocke should not leave the island and will somehow be prevented from doing so with a new protector/candidate coming to light.[/quote]

    That’s the question the episode left with me – is the smoke monster actually Jacob’s brother or was he just taking his form in earlier episodes as he now does with Locke? Did Jacob’s brother’s consciousness become incorporated into the smoke monster somehow? Did the smoke monster take the mother’s form to lead Jacob’s brother to the “others” as part of his master plan or could Jacob’s brother see dead people like Hurley? And how frustrating is it that we still don’t have a name for the guy?!

  82. way_lost says:

    Why do people that just saw this episode think that Jacob was supposed to do anything??? He was conned. It is all BS. MIB actual was contacted by his REAL mother, he lived among his people and cast crazy chick out of his life. Jacob got conned plain and simple.

    I don’t think Sawyer is related to Jacob, but I think Anthony Cooper is related to crazy chick>> psycho+con artist…hmmmmm. Just kiddin’!

  83. Hammer says:

    I think Smoke is def MIB…we saw him in the beach scene where he tells jacob he will find a loophole. It is clearly after the became smokey. He also has the same motivation as before jacob tossed him in the tunnel…to go home.

    No way smokey is something/someone else…smokey is what she said…MIB worse than dead.

  84. meathead530 says:

    I hope that ABC has a website that answers all the questions. Tonight’s episode just added more questions. This is ridiculous. It’s time to wrap this up and we still have more questions.

    Where did the crazy lady come from?
    What is the light?
    What is the purpose of smokey?
    And will we ever get the story of Henry Gale?

  85. way_lost says:

    I want MIB to leave. I don’t even care about all the losties I have gotten attached to. MIB got so screwed…I hope he is finally set free. Wait, isn’t he already dead?

  86. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374242"]Why do people that just saw this episode think that Jacob was supposed to do anything??? He was conned. It is all BS. MIB actual was contacted by his REAL mother, he lived among his people and cast crazy chick out of his life. Jacob got conned plain and simple.[/quote]
    Because MIB himself confirmed that the people he was with were bad and looking to exploit the island.

  87. KatieB says:

    Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?

  88. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="374241"][quote comment="374232"]I do not think after watching this episode that the smoke monster (MIB) is the same thing/person as Jacob’s brother. Jacob’s brother was shown to clearly die and his body is still in the cave next to his phony mother. I think the smoke monster inhabited his body in the early times that we see interaction between Jacob and MIB.[/quote]

    That’s the question the episode left with me – is the smoke monster actually Jacob’s brother or was he just taking his form in earlier episodes as he now does with Locke? Did Jacob’s brother’s consciousness become incorporated into the smoke monster somehow?

    And how frustrating is it that we still don’t have a name for the guy?![/quote]

    I think that’s a good theory, Anne. Jacob’s brother was clearly dead, and his body was placed in the cave next to Mother. (YAY! An answer about Adam and Eve!!) However, Sassafrass has a point about MIB’s subconscious. I’m prepared to believe that everything we’ve seen previously with “Jacob’s brother” was really Smokey, taking the form of someone who died (the brother). But it seems to me Smokey’s agenda is the same as the brother’s — to get off the island. Can’t just be by chance.

    And, oh yeah, I can’t believe they didn’t reveal his name!! I was on the edge of my seat every time someone spoke to him!

  89. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).

  90. Hammer says:

    Bed time for Bonzo:

    I think killer mom knew more than it seemed. I found the scene weird when they stopped speaking latin?and went to english.

    I think Claudia came to MIB to persuade him to the bad side to help exploit the island. The battle of good and evil is as old as people have existed.

  91. KatieB says:

    [quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).[/quote]
    Good point! Thanks for helping to clarify it for me. I would like to see that first encounter between Jacob and Smokey/MIB, though. I think it would help to explain a lot about Smokey’s origin and purpose.

  92. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).[/quote]
    Good point! Thanks for helping to clarify it for me. I would like to see that first encounter between Jacob and Smokey/MIB, though. I think it would help to explain a lot about Smokey’s origin and purpose.[/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.

  93. way_lost says:

    The crazy-lady told the boys that she did something to prevent them from ever dying. She later told Jacob that going into the light would be worse than dying. So Jacob threw his brother into the light to suffer something worse than death. Why do I have a feeling crazy-chick planned all of that? MIB was the favorite. She said he was “special”

  94. way_lost says:

    smokey=MIB for sure. No question same person.

  95. Hammer says:

    Way lost…just to be accurate…she said they couldn’t hurt each other…not that they could never die.

  96. Lola says:

    So MIB really never had a choice in anything. Can someone explain to me if MIB is dead (and we now know him to be Adam) why does Smokey feel emotional attachment to Jacob? I mean, Smokey took over Locke’s image but feels no emotional attachment to the Oceanic 6, he’s still connected to Jacob. What made Smokey stop appearing as MIB and start up as Locke? Hopefully they will address this because it’s driving me nuts. I wish tonight’s episode would have had MIB/Smokey/Whoever reappear as MIB. and why is Jacob now reappearing as a younger version of himself?

    Also the mother said they could never hurt each other, but that didn’t stop Jacob from giving MIB a bloody face a few times.

    Anyone else think that the hunters in the boar chasing scene were Sayid & Sawyer? Thank God they didn’t go that route.

  97. Lola says:

    [quote comment="374256"]Way lost…just to be accurate…she said they couldn’t hurt each other…not that they could never die.[/quote]

    she did tell young MIB that he would never have to worry about dying.

  98. Redlock says:

    I can’t help feeling that neither Jacob or MIB are good or evil. I’m thinking that MIB is “free will” with all of it’s evil and mistakes but can make it’s own choices and in some sense strives for freedom. Jacob represents “predestination”; accepting of fate, not challenging things but kinda boring in a way.

    Did you notice how crazy mom said that she had to let Brother go to the other side of the island because that’s what he chose to do? Yet when Jacob said he didn’t want to stay to protect the island, she told him that he didn’t have a choice and he just accepted it.

    Also, I find it interesting that Brother can lie and Jacob can’t. Brother can make up the rules for the black rock/white rock game but Jacob cant.

    Anyway…food for thought, hopefully.

  99. RuthyB says:

    [quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]

    No need for rudeness! Just because we love the show doesn’t mean we’re BFFs with Cuse and Lindelof. Let’s try to “be kind and helpful!” and self-appointed Lost thugs.

    Regarding good/evil – Crazy Mother did kill Claudia and tried to kill Jacob’s brother. Jacob chose her over his brother. He learned that she had killed his mother.Then, he tried to kill his brother and sent him to a fate worse than death. Is Jacob really so ‘good’? C and L stated unequivocally that the MIB is pure evil, but not that Jacob is grace/light/hope/goodness. They aren’t ‘opposites.’

    Also, I’m really curious about Crazy Mother’s technique that kept the brothers from killing each other. And isn’t the Adam and Eve statement slightly incestuous given the (Crazy Foster) Mother /Son relationship?

  100. Lola says:

    [quote comment="374259"]I can’t help feeling that neither Jacob or MIB are good or evil. I’m thinking that MIB is “free will” with all of it’s evil and mistakes but can make it’s own choices and in some sense strives for freedom. Jacob represents “predestination”; accepting of fate, not challenging things but kinda boring in a way.

    isn’t it the opposite? MIB never had free will to choose anything. jacob has the choice, for example, about entering the light b/c his mother told him the consequences.

  101. RuthyB says:

    I royally messed up my quote and reply – sorry to misquote Katie B. Also should have said let’s NOT be Lost thugs…

    Oi.

  102. Redlock says:

    [quote comment="374261"][quote comment="374259"]I can’t help feeling that neither Jacob or MIB are good or evil. I’m thinking that MIB is “free will” with all of it’s evil and mistakes but can make it’s own choices and in some sense strives for freedom. Jacob represents “predestination”; accepting of fate, not challenging things but kinda boring in a way.

    isn’t it the opposite? MIB never had free will to choose anything. jacob has the choice, for example, about entering the light b/c his mother told him the consequences.[/quote]

    Interesting point, Lola – but that’s the thing…it seems like characters switch their original ideals at some point. I think Smokey/MIB has free will but can’t use it.

  103. wally p says:

    Allright, I didnt read any posts yet… just wanted to come right out and say that the episode was spectacular, even though the Adam and Eve ending was everything that I hoped it wouldn’t be. I sware it didnt fit at all, not with the episode OR with the story at whole. what gives with it, huh?

    Otherwise amazing… MIB (still no name?!) goes into the light and comes out as smoke… that is all… (cuz, cuz, it prolly took him a zillion years to come out of that light as smoke, right? He was a smart guy!) Also, I’d say that potentially that smoke isnt really even him… I mean, MIB is dead, he’s ADAM… theres gotta be something more to that yo. Polar Bears?????!!!!! WTF!!!! Awesome though. I couldn’t help laughing at the fact that I still dont know a GODDAMNED THING!!!

    I did know that the donkey wheel was built by MIB though.

  104. narzod says:

    Adam and Eve explanation was a bit of a cop out. The writers needed to tie up some of the more outstanding loose ends, and this is how they pulled it off. They always knew that the mythology of the show would involve an ancient love story. Perhaps the original plan was to have another season or two to flesh it out.

    But Adam and Eve implies lovers of a different sort. With all of the time-traveling, Jim and Sun, and Rose and Bernard, perhaps they always thought something could be worked out to explain “our very own Adam and Eve.”

    This is what makes a show like this (not that there has ever been a show like this) so different from a novel or movie. The writers adapt as they go – both to feedback from audience and pressure from the network.

    Alright, I’ll buy it. Now let’s see how the rest plays out. Personally, I don’t think the pieces will fit together so perfectly.

  105. Mr. $tuart says:

    Carlton and Cuse once said that Star Wars was ruined when they tried to answer what the Force was and introduced the mitochlorians. That’s how I feel after this episode. Personally, I don’t need a lot of answers. Never really cared who Adam and Eve were. It was never really an integral part of the story. I feel like they’re giving us a bunch of mitochlorian moments to answer questions that really don’t need to be answered.

  106. La Vie says:

    before I forget:

    MIB is infected (Jacobs bro.) he dies. mom dies. Smokey aka fLocke is NOT Jacobs bro BUT evil/darkness. As in Jacobs bro is DEAD but takes form of Jacobs bro./MIB. Point being MIB uses Jacobs bro. to get out but fails… Jacob is left fighting darkness/evil NOT dead bro.

  107. Shadow says:

    I read all the posts, but still confused about the beach scene with Jacob and MIB, when they’re watching the ship come in. Is that Smokey in the likeness of MIB. I assume after this episode that MIB went into the light and came out as Smokey, but decided to take on his old likeness again, even though his body is in the cave with his dead crazy mom?
    So confused!

  108. narzod says:

    MIB’s midichlorian count exceptionally high.

  109. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374232"]I do not think after watching this episode that the smoke monster (MIB) is the same thing/person as Jacob’s brother. Jacob’s brother was shown to clearly die and his body is still in the cave next to his phony mother. I think the smoke monster inhabited his body in the early times that we see interaction between Jacob and MIB. We now see Smokie as Locke. It is interesting to me that Jacob’s brother had this deep desire to leave the Island, but he wanted to leave for a much different reason than Smokie does, IMO.

    I hold to the belief that Smokie is evil and should not leave the island. Jacob was the protector of that evil leaving the island. Likewise, Flocke should not leave the island and will somehow be prevented from doing so with a new protector/candidate coming to light.[/quote]

    Annie you hit the nail in the head. And much more articulately than I did in my rant…

  110. La Vie says:

    One more thing Jacobs Bro. says “you cant kill me she made it that way…”

    Flash to the scene with Jacobs bro dead almost as if tossed from above a-la smokies way of killing baddies.

    my thought smokey kills Jacobs bro. and takes his form like he takes Lockes. The show producers go OUT of their way to show us Jacobs Bro. is DEAD and at the same time let us know they had this ending in mind all along (ADAM AND EVE).

    brilliant. LOST continues to amaze…

  111. Belle says:

    I thought this was an awesome episode. I had goosebumps during the whole show.

    When the woman said her name was Claudia I was expecting the birth of Romulus and Remus. :) I was anxiously waiting for MIB’s name too but I don’t think we’re going to get it. I don’t really care anymore. I’m happier with the back story than knowing his name.

    For awhile now I’ve felt sorry for Jacob and MIB. Stuck on the island and lonely for a long, long time. Yes MIB has been evil but I needed to know why he became that way. I had tears in my eyes watching what happened to the brothers. They truly loved each other and we all know there’s a special bond between twins. I blame the “mother” for their woes. How long was she on the island that in her desperation to find a replacement for herself, she would resort to killing the babies mother? I guess in her mind she felt it was easier to raise a replacement than wait for the right Candidate to come along. She sensed from early on the difference between the boys and I believe gave more love to MIB hoping it would make a difference in him. He didn’t seem bad at all. I don’t know what the mother saw that we didn’t. When boy in black (BIB) saw his real mother, I thought it was the same as others that saw dead people on the island such as Hurley did. I don’t know for sure. He saw and followed his mother and heard the truth, Jacob didn’t and remained under the influence of the fake mom. She definitely knew more than she told the boys. She wouldn’t have freaked at the future Frozen Donkey Wheel if she didn’t. Why did she insist that MIB could never leave? What powers did she have that she made it so they could never hurt each other? What was in that wine that made Jacob just like her? Killing all those people, the well being filled in and fire everywhere looked like a Smokey attack to me.

  112. We Have to stay!-cherry says:

    I believe that the mother was the smoke monster and i think she is decieving jacob and took over mib’s body and i think mib is actually went to a flash side ways world as someone we know thats why thy have yet to tell us his name..who knows
    I also found a theory on lospedia about benard being related to mib and jacob and now that i think of it they sort of look alike and could be long lost bros if these scences too place 40 yrs ago like jack said after all the anagram in the episode the house of the rising sun does say the bones of the nadler may lay in the cave.
    let me know what you think.
    and I love the poem about lost that was posted futher up i sheded tears :-(

  113. up in smoke says:

    Only Smokey could have collapsed the well and destroyed the camp (killing everyone). If MIB is Smokey then why fill the hole/well and kill the “others.” FMother thanked MIB for killing her – I bet she had her own rules but where did she come from?

  114. James says:

    Jack died when flight 316 crashed and is now Jacob in Jacks body. Jack has acted faith driven much like Jacob. MIB is John Locke the bomb in the sub wouldnt have detonated if it hadnt been tampered with which since Sawyer activated it, it would have been Sawyers fault. MIB cant directly kill Jacob and Jacob is Jack therefore the bomb was necisarry to do so. This show will end with MIB and Jacob cancelling out and a loop setting in where alternate reality Jack wakes up in LOST pilot. It is difficult to say what happens with the kate, sawyer but i honestly beleive thats how it will play out.

  115. up in smoke says:

    Smokey as FLocke could not be stabbed to death so I don’t think FMother was Smokey.

  116. Shadow says:

    didn’t Flocke tell one of the Losties in a previous episode that he was a man once, with a body and feelings, etc…
    Also, I remember MIB telling Jacob in a previous episode something like “you took away my body”.
    That leads me to believe that MIB is indeed Smokey. He went down that hole, and came out as Smokey, without a body. Smokey can’t be a separate entity, because then it wouldn’t make sense why MIB went through so much to take up Locke’s likeness, to kill Jacob, and for Flocke to keep talking about how badly he wants to go home. They made it pretty clear tonight that MIB has wanted to go home for a long time, since he was 13 years old. MIB as Flocke now, is still determined to go home. That’s one of the points of the show. Therefore MIB=Smokey

  117. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374276"]Smokey as FLocke could not be stabbed to death so I don’t think FMother was Smokey.[/quote]

    you know whats funny and while I still think SMOKIE is NOT Jacobs bro. as in he/it is a seperate entity…

    when Jacobs “mom” goes down to say goodbye to jacobs Bro. you can hear the mechanical noise SMOKIE makes right before the camera shows her…

  118. We Have to stay!-cherry says:

    [quote comment="374268"]I read all the posts, but still confused about the beach scene with Jacob and MIB, when they’re watching the ship come in. Is that Smokey in the likeness of MIB. I assume after this episode that MIB went into the light and came out as Smokey, but decided to take on his old likeness again, even though his body is in the cave with his dead crazy mom?
    So confused![/quote]
    Ur post gave me an idea to theory o had about Fake Mom being smokie from the beging and trying to lie and decieve from the begining.and the reason is because you reminded me of what fake mom said so maybe whatever she is ..is now mib.
    I think smoke is stuck on the island and for good reason. Im just not sure of the reason .yet but the cave with the light was just a precautionary prison for smokie and all it has to now is lie some more and get out the last barrier which is the islsand. I mean when mib enter the well it reminded me of the ash around the the cabin and when the ash was broken somethnig or SMoike was relesed

  119. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374277"]didn’t Flocke tell one of the Losties in a previous episode that he was a man once, with a body and feelings, etc…
    Also, I remember MIB telling Jacob in a previous episode something like “you took away my body”.
    That leads me to believe that MIB is indeed Smokey. He went down that hole, and came out as Smokey, without a body. Smokey can’t be a separate entity, because then it wouldn’t make sense why MIB went through so much to take up Locke’s likeness, to kill Jacob, and for Flocke to keep talking about how badly he wants to go home. They made it pretty clear tonight that MIB has wanted to go home for a long time, since he was 13 years old. MIB as Flocke now, is still determined to go home. That’s one of the points of the show. Therefore MIB=Smokey[/quote]

    Jacob’s Bro = infected (a la sayid/claire)

    MIB = separate entity

  120. We Have to stay!-cherry says:

    Also man in lockes says stuff that only locke would know like dont tell me what i cant do and just little otjher snippet of locke even though we know he is defiently not locke well i thin its the same case with mib . I believe what ever took his form too it in the same way as he toos lockes form. it did not reinhabit loces body but made like a clone of him that has his thought meomories and expressions.. so i think we will see jacob in futher episodes address mib lie everyone adresses fake locke. and i bvelieve that is the reason jacob did not mind dying because he was the cause to his own suffering and felt bad about being responsible for his brothers death and not leaving the island as we see jacob fulfiling his brothers dream and being off island and seeing what is across the sea.

  121. silentlucidity says:

    [quote comment="374257"]So MIB really never had a choice in anything. Can someone explain to me if MIB is dead (and we now know him to be Adam) why does Smokey feel emotional attachment to Jacob? I mean, Smokey took over Locke’s image but feels no emotional attachment to the Oceanic 6, he’s still connected to Jacob. What made Smokey stop appearing as MIB and start up as Locke? Hopefully they will address this because it’s driving me nuts. I wish tonight’s episode would have had MIB/Smokey/Whoever reappear as MIB. and why is Jacob now reappearing as a younger version of himself?

    Also the mother said they could never hurt each other, but that didn’t stop Jacob from giving MIB a bloody face a few times.

    Anyone else think that the hunters in the boar chasing scene were Sayid & Sawyer? Thank God they didn’t go that route.[/quote]

    He (MIB) needed to appear as Locke to convince the Oceanic 6 of his ‘plan’ , what ever that is at this point.

    M

  122. silentlucidity says:

    He also told Kate, when she got the his side of the Island, that he knew what she was thinking in regards to Aaron having a crazy mother (Claire) because his mother had also been crazy.

    M

    [quote comment="374277"]didn’t Flocke tell one of the Losties in a previous episode that he was a man once, with a body and feelings, etc…
    Also, I remember MIB telling Jacob in a previous episode something like “you took away my body”.
    That leads me to believe that MIB is indeed Smokey. He went down that hole, and came out as Smokey, without a body. Smokey can’t be a separate entity, because then it wouldn’t make sense why MIB went through so much to take up Locke’s likeness, to kill Jacob, and for Flocke to keep talking about how badly he wants to go home. They made it pretty clear tonight that MIB has wanted to go home for a long time, since he was 13 years old. MIB as Flocke now, is still determined to go home. That’s one of the points of the show. Therefore MIB=Smokey[/quote]
    [quote comment="374257"]So MIB really never had a choice in anything. Can someone explain to me if MIB is dead (and we now know him to be Adam) why does Smokey feel emotional attachment to Jacob? I mean, Smokey took over Locke’s image but feels no emotional attachment to the Oceanic 6, he’s still connected to Jacob. What made Smokey stop appearing as MIB and start up as Locke? Hopefully they will address this because it’s driving me nuts. I wish tonight’s episode would have had MIB/Smokey/Whoever reappear as MIB. and why is Jacob now reappearing as a younger version of himself?

    Also the mother said they could never hurt each other, but that didn’t stop Jacob from giving MIB a bloody face a few times.

    Anyone else think that the hunters in the boar chasing scene were Sayid & Sawyer? Thank God they didn’t go that route.[/quote]

    He (MIB) needed to appear as Locke to convince the Oceanic 6 of his ‘plan’ , what ever that is at this point.

    M

  123. Mateo says:

    come on people, MIB=Jacobs brother… he fell in, and came out as a thing. His human body came out but his soul/spirit became a monster.
    MIB said “he once was human” and “they took my body” and FLocke said “I once had a crazy mother”… Smokey=MIB, I dont know how the writers could have made it more obvious, yet some of the conspiracy people out there look too deep into everything, which sometimes pans out on this show but unlikely this late in the game.
    Now since the light/power are now a part of MIB he cant leave the island.

    HOWEVER… I do find it strange that an old woman could kill everyone, burn down the village & fill the well all while the MIB slept.

  124. Belle says:

    It’s amazing how we all perceive things differently. Fake mom didn’t try to kill MIB otherwise he would have been as dead as “his people”. She knocked him out to stop him and then went on her rampage. I believe she did love him in her own way. Out of rage MIB stabbed her to death with what I assume was that special knife. She thanked him since she couldn’t kill herself and she did say she was tired. Tired of being the protector. (I believe that’s why Jacob didn’t fight back when Ben was about to kill him. He was tired after a few hundred years.) Jacob in a fit of rage after seeing that his brother had killed their “mom” proceeded to the light source and threw MIB in the water. In his state of anger I doubt Jacob remembered the mother’s dire warning otherwise he wouldn’t have done it. Obviously Jacob or his brother had any idea what was going to happen. The mother told Jacob to promise to never go in there because it was a fate worse than death. We don’t know if she ever told MIB the same thing. Again I blame mommy dearest for not explaining EVERYTHING. She did them both wrong big time. MIB said Jacob stole his body. That was what happened when he went down the hole. He was separated from his earthly body and now he is a pillar of black smoke. As we’ve seen, he can appear as the likeness of someone that is dead. He appeared as himself when the characters were first introduced so we would know who they were and what they looked like. Now that Jacob is dead he can only appears as Locke.

    I loved the revelation of Adam and Eve’s identities. No one would have guessed it in a million years. Locke assumed they were lovers and perhaps “Adam and Eve” of the island but he was totally wrong.

  125. We Have to stay!-cherry says:

    Yes,but i believe it was her loophole to kill mib beacuse she could not do it herself and she knew jacob loved mommy dearest and had no one else and she knew how curious jacob was abou the light and thats why she added that is was worst than death because she knew mib would probley come kill her because she knows how badly she wants to get off the island and what she is willing to do to get of the island so jacob was thus a loophole like ben idk thats what i think but most of the time im wrong about the big stuff

  126. Man On Internets says:

    [quote comment="374285"]It’s amazing how we all perceive things differently. Fake mom didn’t try to kill MIB otherwise he would have been as dead as “his people”. She knocked him out to stop him and then went on her rampage. I believe she did love him in her own way. Out of rage MIB stabbed her to death with what I assume was that special knife. She thanked him since she couldn’t kill herself and she did say she was tired. Tired of being the protector. (I believe that’s why Jacob didn’t fight back when Ben was about to kill him. He was tired after a few hundred years.) Jacob in a fit of rage after seeing that his brother had killed their “mom” proceeded to the light source and threw MIB in the water. In his state of anger I doubt Jacob remembered the mother’s dire warning otherwise he wouldn’t have done it. Obviously Jacob or his brother had any idea what was going to happen. The mother told Jacob to promise to never go in there because it was a fate worse than death. We don’t know if she ever told MIB the same thing. Again I blame mommy dearest for not explaining EVERYTHING. She did them both wrong big time. MIB said Jacob stole his body. That was what happened when he went down the hole. He was separated from his earthly body and now he is a pillar of black smoke. As we’ve seen, he can appear as the likeness of someone that is dead. He appeared as himself when the characters were first introduced so we would know who they were and what they looked like. Now that Jacob is dead he can only appears as Locke.

    I loved the revelation of Adam and Eve’s identities. No one would have guessed it in a million years. Locke assumed they were lovers and perhaps “Adam and Eve” of the island but he was totally wrong.[/quote]

    yes. can we All decide to start from here for the rest of our analysis? And with that said….

  127. We Have to stay!-cherry says:

    @man on internets no you cannot dictate where we could start from its a free for all
    and
    @ belle good theory i cant wait to see what happen in the next episode

  128. We Have to stay!-cherry says:

    @man on internets no you cannot dictate where we could start from its a free for all
    and
    @ belle good theory i cant wait to see what happens in the next episode

  129. Man On Internets says:

    said this last week…kinda stretched. but I was happy that I guessed they were twins..

    http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/the-candidate#comment-374013

    So we also can see that Mom in Black was the OG Smokie, and probably, in a showing of the greed that men have, went into the light, looking to gain immortality…..instead she was doomed to be the protctor of the island. MIB screams “She burned them all!”….she was able to carry MIB out of the hole….

    she also drank the wine or knew the pecial island chat that is Jacobs side of protection. They are a Yin and Yang ..and at the time..the mother was like both Jacob and MIB in one….she created a plan to separate the two….she was just upset that MIB was too jaded by the thought of leaving the island to accept his role… so she had to trick him….

    That is also why everyone says “take this knife and walk right up to him and stab him right in the heart/chest” when they attempt to kill jacob or MIB….

    i do like how this isnt totally answered…and shouldn’t be….

    ….BECAUSE THE SHOW ISNT OVER YET!!!

  130. Belle says:

    The case is closed. We knew MIB was Smokey, they confirmed he was and in this episode we saw how he became Smokey.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one that saw the devastation as the work of Smokey. I believe the fake mother knew about the fate worse than death because she experienced it. There was no way she got MIB out of the well, killed all those people and moved all that dirt and rock into the hole unless she was Smokey. She was stabbed from behind without speaking a word to her son. MIB told Richard to thrust the knife in before Jacob speaks and Dogen told Sayid the same thing when he sent him to kill MIB.

    I found it interesting that when the brothers were in the woods playing the game that there was blood on one of the trees.

    We now know for certain that they aren’t demigods but people complete with emotions and flaws. MIB clearly regretted killing the old woman and Jacob was truly remorseful after seeing his brother’s lifeless body.

    MIB said he had a crazy mother like Aaron does so I was expecting another Claire type loony. If anything she was a murderer, a liar and a deceiver. What she did to the brothers was awful. Jacob didn’t want to be the protector but she tricked him and said he didn’t have a choice. I think Jacob stayed with her because he felt guilty about leaving her alone. He said he would stay for awhile but he’s still with her after 30 years. She manipulated him. I think in time he would have gone with his brother. He often visited MIB to play the game. MIB asked why he came to just watch and Jacob said to see if mother was right about the people. He did observe since he said they didn’t seem bad but I think he mainly came to see his brother.

    I’m guessing someone conned the mother into being the island protector too.

  131. Man On Internets says:

    also … Mom in Black telling Jacob:

    “You have no choice.”

    everything is based on fate. everything must be based on the fact that fate is what creates choice, not vice-versa. That’s the moral of the show.

    still can’t wait to see when we find out that Jacob in Black (or Brown) aka Off Island Jake…. is actually MIB assuming Jake’s body and getting everyone back to the island to finish conning them into replacing him. or that it is actually Mom In Black in Time Travel assuming dead Jacobs body to then reverse this whole madness..

    …good times.

    wild to see the explanation of how other people (whitmore, eloise, dogen) find out about the history and rules…

  132. Man On Internets says:

    It is even crazier to think of jacob off the island when he spent YEARS NOT EVEN BELIEVING THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING BEYOND THE ISLAND!!!

    JACOB IN BLACK = MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF LOST.

  133. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).[/quote]
    Good point! Thanks for helping to clarify it for me. I would like to see that first encounter between Jacob and Smokey/MIB, though. I think it would help to explain a lot about Smokey’s origin and purpose.[/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]

    Excuse me, Mr. Hammer. I was not saying there is a brand new antagonist. In MY opinion, Smokey has always been a separate entity who was somehow freed from the light cave when the body of Jacob’s brother went inside. After, Smokey took over the visage of Jacob’s brother, in early interactions with Jacob. Of course, I could be wrong. And, of course, so could you.

  134. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="374294"][quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).[/quote]
    Good point! Thanks for helping to clarify it for me. I would like to see that first encounter between Jacob and Smokey/MIB, though. I think it would help to explain a lot about Smokey’s origin and purpose.[/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]

    Excuse me, Mr. Hammer. I was not saying there is a brand new antagonist. In MY opinion, Smokey has always been a separate entity who was somehow freed from the light cave when the body of Jacob’s brother went inside. After, Smokey took over the visage of Jacob’s brother, in early interactions with Jacob. Of course, I could be wrong. And, of course, so could you.[/quote]

    This is where it gets confusing. Did MIB’s soul get ripped from him and it was turned into Smokey…or is Smokey an entirely different entity all together?

    If it’s a soul-changing light, then in theory, anyone who has been down there could be another Smokey. If it’s a separate entity, then why does MIB keep talking about the good old days when he was a man? He keeps blaming Jacob for doing this to him. Whereas if it was a completely separate entity – he’d be thanking Jacob for releasing him.

    Also, did anyone pick up on the Jesus reference when Psycho-Mom gave Jacob the wine (As in, the Last Supper, “Take this cup and drink it…”)?

  135. z says:

    At what point then Jacob sets up his own rules? After all, he could travel freely on and off the island when he was alive! Obviously his brother – despite literally dying to get off – never could!

  136. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="374295"] This is where it gets confusing. Did MIB’s soul get ripped from him and it was turned into Smokey…or is Smokey an entirely different entity all together?

    If it’s a soul-changing light, then in theory, anyone who has been down there could be another Smokey. If it’s a separate entity, then why does MIB keep talking about the good old days when he was a man? He keeps blaming Jacob for doing this to him. Whereas if it was a completely separate entity – he’d be thanking Jacob for releasing him.
    [/quote]

    Very true. Good points. I dunno. I guess I thought Smokey was a separate entity because the body of Jacob’s brother is now dead. But you’re right… Smokey is carrying the same grudges that Brother would have. Even while using Locke’s body.

  137. LizS says:

    MIB=Smokey–MIB had his soul ripped from his body via ‘the Light’–super electromagnetism, whateva

    Jacob–has learned and changed over the centuries. I think he regrets what he did to his brother. Maybe the ultimate goal for him would be for MIB to ‘let go’ of his anger and frustration and hate. I think Jacob has had to do the same.

    Obviously there is a whole history between these 2 that we will never get to see–but we can infer some of it by what they are arguing about by the time they encounter our Losties. Jacob has gotten over some of his naivete–and managed to keep his smarter bro on island. Jacob has learned how stuff works–making his own stuff (like the Lighthouse).

    Where MIB has only seen the weakness and corruption in man’s nature, Jacob has looked for the good.

    Man of Faith, Man of Science–is Science the explanation for the Light? Is it a source of Spirituality? I don’t think that’s going to be answered–and probably it shouldn’t be.

    I felt sorry for both brothers in this ep, and for crazy mom as well. I’m glad to see complexity in MIB, and that Jacob developed complexity–though remained to the end able to be happy in simple things. No mean gift.

    So, the wine thing? Yes to the C-symbolism, and J offers a cup of that wine to Richard, casually. But we never see Richard drink it.

    And it would be hard to say if that’s going to play in again–since MIB broke the bottle.

    I thought this was a good ep, too! Lots of interesting comments posted so far…

  138. Skate says:

    [quote comment="374273"]I believe that the mother was the smoke monster and i think she is decieving jacob and took over mib’s body a….
    and I love the poem about lost that was posted futher up i sheded tears :-([/quote]

    I must be the oldest one on this blog to remember that the “Beyound the Sea” is a song that was popular in the 1960’s sung by Bobby Darin. See quote below from Wikipedia. After reading that I realized that the song Shannon sang for Sayid is the French song that it was taken from. They were planting seeds right from the beginning.
    “”Beyond the Sea” is a 1946 contemporary pop song with music taken from the song “La Mer” by Charles Trenet and lyrics by Jack Lawrence.
    Trenet had composed “La Mer” (which means “The Sea”) with French lyrics totally different and unrelated to the English language version that Lawrence composed. Trenet’s French version was an homage and ode to the changing moods of the sea, while Lawrence, by just adding one word “Beyond” to the title, gave him the start where by he made the song into one of a lover pining for a lost love.[1]

    It has been recorded by many artists, including Benny Goodman, Mantovani, Roger Williams and Gisele MacKenzie, but Bobby Darin’s version released in 1959 is the best known by many, reaching #6 on the Billboard Hot 100. The song reached the top 40 twice prior to the Darin version (Goodman-1948, Williams-1955).”

  139. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374294"][quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"][/quote][/quote]
    [/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]

    Excuse me, Mr. Hammer. I was not saying there is a brand new antagonist. In MY opinion, Smokey has always been a separate entity who was somehow freed from the light cave when the body of Jacob’s brother went inside. After, Smokey took over the visage of Jacob’s brother, in early interactions with Jacob. Of course, I could be wrong. And, of course, so could you.[/quote]
    Yes I certainly can be wrong ( I stated it was my opinion). I didn’t realize hogwash was a rude term, I just used it to get my point across that IMO there is no way Smokey is ‘something else’ that just happens to have the same motivation as MIB and has to abide by Jacob’s rules (MIB as child told us that Jacob would be making up the rules). Killer mom told us that if you go into the tunnel you become worse than dead (NOT DEAD) AND that the boys can’t die. MIB as Locke told us :
    SAWYER: What are you?
    LOCKE: What I am is trapped. And I’ve been trapped for so long that I don’t even remember what it feels like to be free. Maybe you can understand that. But before I was trapped, I was a man, James. Just like you.
    SAWYER: I’m havin’ a hard time believin’ that…
    LOCKE: You can believe whatever you want, that’s the truth. I know what it’s like to feel joy… to feel pain, anger, fear… to experience betrayal. I know what it’s like to lose someone you love.

    Maybe I’m wrong, but seems to me Smokey could have left the OPEN hole anytime if he was separate. Jacob and killer mom (and the replacement to be mention) are protecting the light/island), not keeping Smokey from running free on the island. I think the hole is hell and MIB was turned evil (worse than dead) and if he escapes the island and ‘goes home’, evil will spread “Across the Sea”.

  140. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374297"][quote comment="374295"] This is where it gets confusing. Did MIB’s soul get ripped from him and it was turned into Smokey…or is Smokey an entirely different entity all together?

    If it’s a soul-changing light, then in theory, anyone who has been down there could be another Smokey. If it’s a separate entity, then why does MIB keep talking about the good old days when he was a man? He keeps blaming Jacob for doing this to him. Whereas if it was a completely separate entity – he’d be thanking Jacob for releasing him.
    [/quote]

    Very true. Good points. I dunno. I guess I thought Smokey was a separate entity because the body of Jacob’s brother is now dead. But you’re right… Smokey is carrying the same grudges that Brother would have. Even while using Locke’s body.[/quote]
    YES Lostfan and Lostgrrl, THIS is what I am trying to say!

  141. Hammer says:

    I mispoke in 139…can’t die should have been can’t hurt each other (which I interpret through the culmination of this season as they can’t KILL each other but can inflict physical pain and CAN be killed by someone other than each other).

  142. Lostfan says:

    YES Lostfan and Lostgrrl, THIS is what I am trying to say![/quote]

    Glad to help.

  143. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374298"]
    Man of Faith, Man of Science–is Science the explanation for the Light? Is it a source of Spirituality? I don’t think that’s going to be answered–and probably it shouldn’t be.
    [/quote]

    LizS, I hope they do answer the source of the light. They have been hinting that Losties’ purpose is ‘saving us/the world’ for a long time now and I think they are telling us that when they changed the past they messed it up. I think the ending is how they course correct that problem, so I hope they tell us why (the light source?).

  144. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374291"]The case is closed. We knew MIB was Smokey, they confirmed he was and in this episode we saw how he became Smokey.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one that saw the devastation as the work of Smokey. I believe the fake mother knew about the fate worse than death because she experienced it. There was no way she got MIB out of the well, killed all those people and moved all that dirt and rock into the hole unless she was Smokey. She was stabbed from behind without speaking a word to her son. MIB told Richard to thrust the knife in before Jacob speaks and Dogen told Sayid the same thing when he sent him to kill MIB.

    [/quote]
    I am buying all this with a caveat, she was A smoke entity, not THE smoke monster (I don’t think there can only be one). I noticed that she didn’t seem to age either.

  145. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Jacob sees that the smoke took the form of his brother, not that his brother is now alive. Last night ep was good, just didn’t completely close the loop, or timeline from when the smke was released to smoke taking the form of Jacob’s brother, to the creation of the game that is cuurently being played by Jacob and the smoke/brother (which is actually jacob trying to find a suitable replacement, someone who displays good and not the cheating lying killing etc.., traits people normally fall into)

  146. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374291"]If anything she was a murderer, a liar and a deceiver. What she did to the brothers was awful. Jacob didn’t want to be the protector but she tricked him and said he didn’t have a choice. I think Jacob stayed with her because he felt guilty about leaving her alone. He said he would stay for awhile but he’s still with her after 30 years. She manipulated him. I think in time he would have gone with his brother. He often visited MIB to play the game. MIB asked why he came to just watch and Jacob said to see if mother was right about the people. He did observe since he said they didn’t seem bad but I think he mainly came to see his brother.

    I’m guessing someone conned the mother into being the island protector too.[/quote]

    Yes, but I think what she did was for the greater good. It seems to me she already knew why they came to the island and they were there to exploit it. She knew she would need a replacement and took advantage of the situation. Claudia was a whisperer for the evil side IMO.

    I also think that Jacob ‘hired’ Richard because he didn’t like being convinced to be the protector (but now appreciates WHY she did it, just like she said). He wants people to choose on their own (what he told Hugo about Jack AND what he told Richard).

    She may have been conned, but it sure seems to me that a protector is needed to keep the exploiters from ruining the world.

  147. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374255"]smokey=MIB for sure. No question same person.[/quote]

    Yes, MIB=smokey, then. Just as smokie=fLocke, now. But, how do you explain the appearance of the dead mother to Jacob’s brother? Which would be the earliest we have seen an appearance of a dead person come to speak to the living. Could that have been smokie taking the form of the mom to lead the brother into the “evils” of mankind? That later, after Jacob’s brother dies, smokie takes the form of the brother, not the body (since the body is in the cave w/ the psycho mom), but the form.

  148. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="374308"][quote comment="374255"]smokey=MIB for sure. No question same person.[/quote]

    Yes, MIB=smokey, then. Just as smokie=fLocke, now. But, how do you explain the appearance of the dead mother to Jacob’s brother? Which would be the earliest we have seen an appearance of a dead person come to speak to the living. Could that have been smokie taking the form of the mom to lead the brother into the “evils” of mankind?

    That later, after Jacob’s brother dies, smokie takes the form of the brother, not the body (since the body is in the cave w/ the psycho mom), but the form.[/quote]

    I think we have to go on the theory that dead people roam the island if they’re “stuck.” Think Michael and his whispers. Certainly a murdered mother would stick around to watch after her kids.

  149. Lostfan says:

    sorry – I quoted and replied to the wrong post.

  150. RuthyB says:

    THe MIB’s name could be Aaron – he was ‘raised by another’ and look what happened! Perhaps fLocke is protecting Claire because he (Smokie) absorbed some of original MIB’s memories – and how Claudia didn’t receive protection.

  151. LostGrrl says:

    Wondering about the boys that MIB (and others) have been seeing in the woods. There had been speculation that the boys were growing-up versions of Jacob. But seeing what Jacob really looked like growing up, I don’t THINK they are the same actors. So… who are those boys and what is their significance?

  152. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374308"][quote comment="374255"]smokey=MIB for sure. No question same person.[/quote]

    Yes, MIB=smokey, then. Just as smokie=fLocke, now. But, how do you explain the appearance of the dead mother to Jacob’s brother? Which would be the earliest we have seen an appearance of a dead person come to speak to the living. Could that have been smokie taking the form of the mom to lead the brother into the “evils” of mankind?

    That later, after Jacob’s brother dies, smokie takes the form of the brother, not the body (since the body is in the cave w/ the psycho mom), but the form.[/quote]
    IMO, MIB=Smokey=Flocke, they are all the same entity.

    I’m am hoping for consistency, that dead Claudia appearing to MIB was a whisperer. If it were a Smoke Monster, young Jacob should have been able to see her.

    And yes MIB as Smokey takes the form of his ‘old self’ when appearing to Jacob. As Smokey, he can’t talk and for us viewers, it would have been confusing for him to talk to Jacob as some random body on the island.

  153. danadrew says:

    As I have said for the past dyrs they are in the garden of eden. God places a charuib as a guardian as it states in the bible. A chariub is a baby born without being baptised.
    The smoke monster is the devil in “snake-like” form.

  154. Jack's Shephard says:

    What if Desmond is the polar bear?

  155. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374305"][quote comment="374291"]The case is closed. We knew MIB was Smokey, they confirmed he was and in this episode we saw how he became Smokey.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one that saw the devastation as the work of Smokey. I believe the fake mother knew about the fate worse than death because she experienced it. There was no way she got MIB out of the well, killed all those people and moved all that dirt and rock into the hole unless she was Smokey. She was stabbed from behind without speaking a word to her son. MIB told Richard to thrust the knife in before Jacob speaks and Dogen told Sayid the same thing when he sent him to kill MIB.

    [/quote]
    I am buying all this with a caveat, she was A smoke entity, not THE smoke monster (I don’t think there can only be one). I noticed that she didn’t seem to age either.[/quote]
    The elder Eloise Hawking seems to know what’s going on and at one point in the FSW told Desmond that he wasn’t ready yet or something like that. Isn’t that the same thing that fake mom said to boy Jacob and MIB? Is it possible that Eloise Hawking died at some point and fake mom is now using her image?

  156. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374266"]Carlton and Cuse once said that Star Wars was ruined when they tried to answer what the Force was and introduced the mitochlorians. That’s how I feel after this episode. Personally, I don’t need a lot of answers. Never really cared who Adam and Eve were. It was never really an integral part of the story. I feel like they’re giving us a bunch of mitochlorian moments to answer questions that really don’t need to be answered.[/quote]

    The explanation to who Adan and Eve were was so we now know that Smokie is only the form of Jacob’s brother(MIB) not tha tMIB was “evil” from the beginning.
    And the Adam and Eve reference is only used as a label for the 1st known inhabitants of the island (for our Losties, anyway), not that they automatically be assumed to be husband and wife.

  157. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374268"]I read all the posts, but still confused about the beach scene with Jacob and MIB, when they’re watching the ship come in. Is that Smokey in the likeness of MIB. I assume after this episode that MIB went into the light and came out as Smokey, but decided to take on his old likeness again, even though his body is in the cave with his dead crazy mom?
    So confused![/quote]
    Is that Smokey in the likeness of MIB. YES!
    I assume after this episode that MIB went into the light and came out as Smokey, but decided to take on his old likeness again AGAIN, YES!

  158. little prince says:

    How did the statue get there?

    Whats the deal with the pregnancy on the island?

    Where did the special wine come from that “mother” was gave to jacob?

    Who told her about the light…are we to believe since the beginning of time someone has been guarding it?

    and most importantly….why does getting murdered by your own brother and getting tossed into a stream heading towards the essence of life turn you into a pure evil cloud of smoke thats not allowed to leave.

    Why isnt he allowed to leave?…cause he had a batsh*t crazy mom that lied his whole life and tried to brain washed him?

    i kind of liked how we got the answer to the cave skeletons but this smoke monster deal makes no sense…almost as if jacob is not the guardian…the smoke monster is…thats why hes a cloud of smoke that can kill at will?
    Jacob just drank some fountain of youth wine i guess….please someone help me not hate the ending of this show and give me some answers i misssed

  159. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="374312"]Wondering about the boys that MIB (and others) have been seeing in the woods. There had been speculation that the boys were growing-up versions of Jacob. But seeing what Jacob really looked like growing up, I don’t THINK they are the same actors. So… who are those boys and what is their significance?[/quote]

    I think they are the same actors.

  160. Lostfan says:

    [quote comment="374311"]THe MIB’s name could be Aaron – he was ‘raised by another’ and look what happened! Perhaps fLocke is protecting Claire because he (Smokie) absorbed some of original MIB’s memories – and how Claudia didn’t receive protection.[/quote]

    Yep – similar to my theory from last week.

  161. Miss lost says:

    A few answers, a lot of questions.
    Someone asked why the mom said, “thank-you,” when she was killed. I think she too was trapped (maybe as smokey) and once she was killed she was set free. She no longer was trapped.
    When she told the boys to promise to never go down to the light, she said it was life, it was death, it was rebirth. The light appears to be warm and inviting and I think you are drawn to it. She made it clear they needed to stay away from it.
    I couldn’t tell if the light went out when smokey came out, but he was “reborn” as smokey. If the light is out, Jacob knows it must stay on the island.
    I think when Jacob took the wine and was given the role as protector he also gained some sort of gift…ie the ability to give eternal life and offer the candidates protection.
    Fake mother told MIB he was special and she knew he was different. He was smart and the island told him things.
    I would say after all the years on the island, Jacob has learned things as well. He became educated in the ways of the island, the ways of smokey, and his role as protector.

  162. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374271"] The show producers go OUT of their way to show us Jacobs Bro. is DEAD and at the same time let us know they had this ending in mind all along (ADAM AND EVE).

    brilliant. LOST continues to amaze…[/quote]
    IMO they went out of their way to show us that he can’t be “worse than dead” and still in a human body. His body is dead but he is not, he is no longer a man.

  163. Miss lost says:

    Something else I thought about Jacob. It seemed that even as a kid he needed someone else to explain things to him. This reminded me of the scene with him and Richard Alpert. It was Richard that explained to Jacob that he needed to intervene in others lives b/c if he didn’t MIB would. And so it seems he had an aha moment at that time and made Richard his go between him and the “others.”

  164. PJSander says:

    [quote comment="374312"]Wondering about the boys that MIB (and others) have been seeing in the woods. There had been speculation that the boys were growing-up versions of Jacob. But seeing what Jacob really looked like growing up, I don’t THINK they are the same actors. So… who are those boys and what is their significance?[/quote]

    We saw a boy several times. The first time we saw a blond boy twice in the same episode, once covered in blood.

    The next time we saw a boy, he was dark haired, but played by the same actor.

    This actor played the teen Jacob in “Across the Sea.” His twin brother was played by a different actor.

    Doesn’t answer your question really, but it is all I have! LOL

    : ) P

  165. Jake328 says:

    Also, did anyone pick up on the Jesus reference when Psycho-Mom gave Jacob the wine (As in, the Last Supper, “Take this cup and drink it…”)?

    Yes I did, good catch. Also when Jacob took Richard into the ocean and dunked him under water it made me think of a baptism.

  166. La Vie says:

    to those that think Jacobs Bro.=Smokie

    1. how do you explain (as LostLove said in 147) Claudia (Jacob/Jacobs bro’s REAL mom) appearing to “tempt/guide” Jacobs bro. to the “evil” humans.

    2. SMOKIE’s sudden Locke-ishness aka. “dont tell me what I cant do” as he is chasing a young “Jacob?” earlier in the season.

    Again SMOKIE seems to be evil incarnate and feeds off the memories and sensibilities of others. The only reason he appears as Jacobs Bro. is to remind Jacob (and make him feel guilty) as to what he did (indirectly kill his brother). Jacobs Bro. WOULD NEVER want to kill Jacob. you can see how his love of Jacob was brought up through the whole show. Therefore smokie is independent of Jacob’s bro as he is independent of Locke…

    feel free to crown me as master of all that is lost =P

  167. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374281"]Also man in lockes says stuff that only locke would know like dont tell me what i cant do and just little otjher snippet of locke even though we know he is defiently not locke well i thin its the same case with mib . I believe what ever took his form too it in the same way as he toos lockes form. it did not reinhabit loces body but made like a clone of him that has his thought meomories and expressions.. so i think we will see jacob in futher episodes address mib lie everyone adresses fake locke. and i bvelieve that is the reason jacob did not mind dying because he was the cause to his own suffering and felt bad about being responsible for his brothers death and not leaving the island as we see jacob fulfiling his brothers dream and being off island and seeing what is across the sea.[/quote]

    Jacob didn’t mind dying as he had his replacement on the island and that death was welcomed just like how Jacob’s “mom” welcomed death by saying thank you to Jacob’s bro.

  168. Miss lost says:

    I think it is interesting that many still think the big twist is going to be that it is Jacob who is evil and MIB is good.
    It still appears to me that Jacob was always good. He never questioned his mom, he did not know how to tell a lie, etc…
    Now I am not saying that I think that made MIB evil. He was smart. He knew things. I think he showed he was very protective of Jacob. When he learned the truth about his real mother he went back to get Jacob and bring him with him. After speding 30 yrs. with “his people” he learned that they were everything his fake mother said. The lie, cheat, corrupt. Yet MIB longed to go across the sea because he knew there was a bigger world out there.
    I do think that after killing his fake mom and then getting pushed down into the light is what changed him. He was killed, and now is trapped in smokey form.

  169. Man On Internets says:

    [quote comment="374320"][quote comment="374312"]Wondering about the boys that MIB (and others) have been seeing in the woods. There had been speculation that the boys were growing-up versions of Jacob. But seeing what Jacob really looked like growing up, I don’t THINK they are the same actors. So… who are those boys and what is their significance?[/quote]

    I think they are the same actors.[/quote]

    They def are the same actors…imdb even states “young jacob’ in all episodes he is featured.

    so like i said… If jacob is dead…and everyone is seeing ghosts of dead young jacob, then i still am ridig with Jacob in Black aka Off Island Jake to infact be Mom In Black or MIB, smokieshapeshifters, inhabiting dead jacob’s body…..

    …yeah I’m riding with this one for a while…haha

  170. danadrew says:

    [quote comment="374330"][quote comment="374320"][quote comment="374312"]Wondering about the boys that MIB (and others) have been seeing in the woods. There had been speculation that the boys were growing-up versions of Jacob. But seeing what Jacob really looked like growing up, I don’t THINK they are the same actors. So… who are those boys and what is their significance?[/quote]

    I think they are the same actors.[/quote]

    They def are the same actors…imdb even states “young jacob’ in all episodes he is featured.

    so like i said… If jacob is dead…and everyone is seeing ghosts of dead young jacob, then i still am ridig with Jacob in Black aka Off Island Jake to infact be Mom In Black or MIB, smokieshapeshifters, inhabiting dead jacob’s body…..

    …yeah I’m riding with this one for a while…haha[/quote]
    Place-garden of eden.
    Smokie-devil in snake like form.
    Jacob-cheruib guardian

  171. MT says:

    [quote comment="374328"][quote comment="374281"]Also man in lockes says stuff that only locke would know like dont tell me what i cant do and just little otjher snippet of locke even though we know he is defiently not locke well i thin its the same case with mib . I believe what ever took his form too it in the same way as he toos lockes form. it did not reinhabit loces body but made like a clone of him that has his thought meomories and expressions.. so i think we will see jacob in futher episodes address mib lie everyone adresses fake locke. and i bvelieve that is the reason jacob did not mind dying because he was the cause to his own suffering and felt bad about being responsible for his brothers death and not leaving the island as we see jacob fulfiling his brothers dream and being off island and seeing what is across the sea.[/quote]

    Jacob didn’t mind dying as he had his replacement on the island and that death was welcomed just like how Jacob’s “mom” welcomed death by saying thank you to Jacob’s bro.[/quote]

    I agree, I think fake mom set it up so MIB would kill her and set her free, now that she had her replacement. In the last seen where she and Jacob were together, she conveyed that she knew she wasn’t coming back. Then she seemed very intentional as she sat there quietly with her back exposed so MIB could come up from behind and stab her.

  172. danadrew says:

    Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it!

  173. Aonghus Fallon says:

    I guess everybody interprets the episode in their own way. Here’s my two cents’ worth.

    (1) There are two exit routes off the island, corresponding to its north and south poles. The south pole exit is the source of the golden light – Ben used it to get off the island that time he ended up in Tunisia. MiB could have left the island via the south pole exit, and his Mom knew it. It was a fate worse than death as far as she was concerned because he would have been corrupted by contact with human society.

    (2) …well, he could have left if his Mom hadn’t cut a deal with Smokie: stop my dark-haired son ever leaving the island. Even when Jacob tried to dispose of MiB’s body, Smokie wouldn’t let him. A deal is a deal. Dead or alive, MiB stays on the island. Which is why Smokie sent the body right back up.*

    * re his name. The casting agency listed it as ‘Samuel’.

  174. NDubois says:

    They never reveal MIB’s name, but I’m sure that he has one. Given all of the spiritual/mythological plot twists, I’m going to venture a guess that his name is something very traditional (just like Jacob’s) — Aaron. I believe that Aaron is Smokey/MIB reincarnated. Claire was told that if she didn’t raise her son herself, that something very bad would happen.

  175. justguessing says:

    Fake Mom told BIB that she came from her mother who came from her mother and that they are dead. She has been proven to be a liar but if not… does that make her the first on the island… if not how can she be Eve? Also, the real mom told BIB that those other people arrived on the island the day before he was born. Again, I agree that could have been the smoke monster or a whisperer lying… but why? She told the truth about everything else… so why is he Adam if he wasnt the first? I do understand that Adam and Eve was the point they were trying to make… but I’m still confused.

    Fake mom also blind folded the boys on the 1st trip to the light. I think this was because she didnt know at that point who the protector would be. Yes she knew that BIB could lie, etc… but it was also clear that he was more connected to the island than Jacob at the time, therefore w/ proper guidance could still be a candidate. Which leads me to my last comment… Fake mom clearly brought Claudia to the island because she knew she carried her replacement. However, one of the babies was not expected. And since it’s clear that BIB was more connected to the island… is it possible that he was the candidate and Jacob was not expected. Which is why Jacob swears she loved BIB more?

  176. RMR says:

    So Faux mom says going in to the light is fate worse than death. She says that she is the protector of the light and then says thank you when she is killed. This suggests to me that “fate worse than death” = “being tasked to guard the light”. She had previously gone in to the light, was smokified, and has since been looking for a way out. However, “the rules” already existed, meaning she could not herself make it happen; she would have to pull strings to make it happen.

    – Do you think she killed the whole village with her bare hands? being a smokey should would have made that a lot easier…
    – How did she get killed? With the dagger — before she could speak. Coincidence?

    Notice how she changes when the 2nd baby is born? With just one baby, there’s nothing she can do with it — or at least nothing she’s figured out yet. But given two babies, now she can play one off the other. Her plan begins.

    While we’re told that she gives Jacob guardianship through the drinking of the wine, I think it’s a ruse, both to Jacob and to us. MIB was her choice as successor all along and she got her wish. Just as MIB has been manipulating people for however long to hopefully get out of his fate, so did she manipulate the boys so that one of them would eventually go down there, get smokified, and take her place.

    Now MIB is stuck as the unwitting protector of the island and Jacob is there to make sure he stays on the island. Both are frustrated and want out.

    It’s incomplete, but I think there are some interesting pieces in there…

  177. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374336"] I do understand that Adam and Eve was the point they were trying to make… but I’m still confused.[/quote]
    My take comes from Locke’s original statement when he saw the skeleton. “Our VERY OWN Adam and Eve.” Not THE Adam and Eve. THEY are the Losties’ Adam and Eve, THEY are the beginning of the Losties’ fate. Mother’s doing created MIB’s persona, this was the genesis of the Losties and why they are important to the island.

  178. marco says:

    [quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian. Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.

  179. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="374338"][quote comment="374336"] I do understand that Adam and Eve was the point they were trying to make… but I’m still confused.[/quote]
    My take comes from Locke’s original statement when he saw the skeleton. “Our VERY OWN Adam and Eve.” Not THE Adam and Eve. THEY are the Losties’ Adam and Eve, THEY are the beginning of the Losties’ fate. Mother’s doing created MIB’s persona, this was the genesis of the Losties and why they are important to the island.[/quote]
    Ok. I get that. That would make sense.

  180. little prince says:

    no time to read all these posts cause im at work and will get reemed…but my conclusion is…

    i want the mother to be smokey and have walked into the light back in the day..maybe because MIB was dead..that he emerged as a smoke monster and his body is still there to be buried with Mother in the cave…if she wasnt dead when she entered the light then maybe she gets to keep her body…
    MIB got to kill her because he stabbed her before she talked…thats why it didnt work with sayid and flocke because he talked first…i like this idea because it also ties in with adam and eve…and the garden of eden…and the iressistable apple…kind of like the light…

  181. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374340"][quote comment="374338"][quote comment="374336"] I do understand that Adam and Eve was the point they were trying to make… but I’m still confused.[/quote]
    My take comes from Locke’s original statement when he saw the skeleton. “Our VERY OWN Adam and Eve.” Not THE Adam and Eve. THEY are the Losties’ Adam and Eve, THEY are the beginning of the Losties’ fate. Mother’s doing created MIB’s persona, this was the genesis of the Losties and why they are important to the island.[/quote]
    Ok. I get that. That would make sense.[/quote]
    LOL, making sense don’t make it true all the time…but really think that’s where they trying to tell us. Especially since they didn’t procreate.

  182. Bromsbie says:

    Great episodemight be a disappointing ending thoughnot sure

  183. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]

    Yikes! Whenever people use the phrase “seperation of church and state” I cringe because I know they will proceed to abuse what the forefathers of this country meant. Which is, as a citizen of the US, you will not be forced, I repeat forced, to join in a government sponsored religion. You are free to worship whoever and however you pleased. It does not mean that no gov’t official or office can ever speak of God. Nor does it mean we have to deny the fact that this country was founded by people who believed in God. If you don’t, fine, you still get to live here. But if others do and you don’t, don’t get your undies in a bunch and yell and scream about “seperation of church and state!!” It only means that you will not be forced into any religion that you don’t want to be a part of. Not that no-one can even talk about it.
    Now, back to LOST.

  184. mikemarks says:

    Mom in Black has powers, at least the power to wipe out that entire camp, whatever that power may be, be it smokeypower or people power or what else. So we assume that much about her if we assume she was the one who wiped out the camp. We only know she screemed like a banshee and knocked MIB out. Whatever action/event took out the camp we didn’t actually see. On these Godlike levels of reality, things may appear ordinary but be entangled to larger occurances, like in the Norse Eddas when Thor simply drinks beer from a cup causing the earth’s oceans to recede. Maybe no one, not God, not Jacob, is begun as a good entity, or can be taught to be so (taking an authority’s word for things), maybe Jacob has to learn the good through his own experience, like all of us. So did smokie exist before MIB was thrown in? Was smokey the ghost of MIB’s real mother? Maybe smokie only appears as Jacob’s brother on the beach in order to taunt Jacob about his sin.

  185. mikemarks says:

    so was Dez also “thrown into the light?” The only thing dopier han last night’s episode will be if in the finale Dez turns into a smoke creature and we have a giant japanese like monster fight at the end… sheeesh… by te way, one of Dez’s special properties I’ve been considering is perhaps while the other losties can apparently exist as at least two seperate lifetimes at once, Dez can only exist as one at a time so that’s why he remembers his crossovers…

  186. HollyP says:

    I don’t necessarily think MIB is Smokey, but that Smokey subsumed MIB’s consciousness the way it did Locke’s.

    I also consider that BIB (boy in Black) didn’t see his mother, but rather Smokey as his mother.

    Smokey took Locke’s form only to get in to Jacob’s “room” in the foot of the statue. Remember, no one can go in who isn’t invited. Who more likely to be invited than the leading Candidate? And as Locke, he could manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. He can’t hurt Jacob himself (them’s the rules). But there is a loophole – he can convince someone else to kill Jacob.

    Smokey is using the same method on the candidates: he can’t kill them, but he can get them to kill each other, or Widmore to kill them.

  187. HollyP says:

    [quote comment="374345"]Mom in Black has powers, at least the power to wipe out that entire camp, whatever that power may be, be it smokeypower or people power or what else. So we assume that much about her if we assume she was the one who wiped out the camp. We only know she screemed like a banshee and knocked MIB out. Whatever action/event took out the camp we didn’t actually see. On these Godlike levels of reality, things may appear ordinary but be entangled to larger occurances, like in the Norse Eddas when Thor simply drinks beer from a cup causing the earth’s oceans to recede. Maybe no one, not God, not Jacob, is begun as a good entity, or can be taught to be so (taking an authority’s word for things), maybe Jacob has to learn the good through his own experience, like all of us. So did smokie exist before MIB was thrown in? Was smokey the ghost of MIB’s real mother? Maybe smokie only appears as Jacob’s brother on the beach in order to taunt Jacob about his sin.[/quote]

    I thought about that. She came to MIB late in the day, so thus could have stuck around to set fire to the huts at night. This would allow her to kill them in their sleep without benefit of special powers.

  188. Duke says:

    [quote comment="374250"]Bed time for Bonzo:

    I think killer mom knew more than it seemed. I found the scene weird when they stopped speaking latin?and went to english.

    I think Claudia came to MIB to persuade him to the bad side to help exploit the island. The battle of good and evil is as old as people have existed.[/quote]

    Claudia was the smoke monster!!!!!! He has been working for thousands of years to try to get off the island and create havoc everywhere he goes. He shows up looking like MIB’s biological mother to manipulate him. This story has played over and over for thousands of years with the smoke monster (evil incarnate) trying to escape to destroy the world.

  189. Jake328 says:

    A little confused:

    Mom passes the baton to Jacob but I feel Mom was in the form of the smoke monster in order to kill the people and fill in the hole. So can Jacob also turn into a smoke monster if he wants to? Mom did/could and gave him the job and that seems to be one of the job perks.

    It is obvious that brother “turned to the smoky dark side” after being thrown into the light and that Flock is also brother/smoke monster because he says the same things as brother did (got to get off the island)

    When young brother said “My game, my rules…” that shows that Jacob will devise “his game by his rules” on a much larger scale.

    Also in the beginning when the first baby is born I saw nothing special but when the second was born, mom seemed to take particular notice and then kills the real mother. Why didn’t she immediately kill the mother after the first baby if that was her intention all along. I may be seeing too much but in a couple of weeks I won’t be seeing anything :(

  190. Duke says:

    From my point of view the characters are evolving and taking each others roles as some of them die.

    Locke died and Jack has transformed into the man of faith. He is my choice for taking over Jacob’s island role. I also believe that Hurley will become the advisor to Jack and take over for Alpert. MIB/Smokey will not die because quite frankly how do you kill smoke! So the story will continue to play out with Jack taking over for Jacob, Hurley taking over for Alpert, and Locke continuing to be smokey.

  191. G455 says:

    What exactly is jacob’s game he is playing? To Find a replacement for him? Is that the game?

  192. mikemarks says:

    so having read all the blogs and their ideas, my summary would be 1)yes, Mom, a protector for more years than she wants to be and thereupon with powers, pulled the pregnant woman to the island and the fact that there’s two babies gives her a loophoe to release herself, too tempting she kills the real mothero embrace her loophole. She instructed Jacob that, if she should ever die, he would walk into the light to take on guardianship powers. Upon her death, and in his anger, Jacob finds his loopholew to avoid guardianship and throws his broither into the light. Now MIB is cursed to be guardian. He can not leave the island so compassionate Jacob finally agrees to try to lure a replacement to the island, maybe, but ultimately leaving the island will be the death of MIB, a death he wants for himself. His goal is not freedom to a mainland, that is denied him, but he death the striving for thaT FREEDOM WILL GIVE HIM

  193. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="374299"]

    I must be the oldest one on this blog to remember that the “Beyound the Sea” is a song that was popular in the 1960’s sung by Bobby Darin.
    “[/quote]

    —–
    Uh, I remember it from when I was a kid; always loved the Darin version but also the Trenet one.
    And yup, I’m almost 60.

    Good info you posted. Great tune.
    Darin was such an amazing guy; there’s a good documentary on his life that PBS has shown worth seeing. A Pop artist who looked for more than just fame and fortune …and ego strokes…unlike most of today’s superficial stars.

    I’m so damn frustrated; I always watch the show at abc web site and today it’s been on the fritz.
    I kept getting inane Commercials every 10 seconds and the show would not play. I’ve seen it online for weeks and now all this trouble at the end; I hope I’m wrong but I suspect that some nerd at abc made some changes to the server and updated something…making it harder to see…but then I’m getting the dumb commercials ok.
    Anyone know what’s up?
    I have a later version high quality Mac.
    I’m hoping that maybe it’s just temporary so I’l try later. But I had to come here and see what’s up.

    Still enjoying the comments.

    I see some people posting that they don’t have much faith that the show will leave us with a satisfying conclusion. I have to admit I’m of that opinion.
    But dammit, I’m so hooked now. I’m weak.
    My own little wishes certainly will not be answered I’m sure; more Ekko (surely won’t happen), Patchy, Keamy, Sun’s evil father, lottsa Widmore, and bring back that interesting Japanese guy from the temple and more Miles…no more Charlie, no more sappy touching scenes.

    Sorry if I’m straying off the point but blame abc.

  194. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374353"] She instructed Jacob that, if she should ever die, he would walk into the light to take on guardianship powers.[/quote]
    I thought it was quite different. Jacob drank the wine and accepted the responsibility BEFORE she died. I never heard her say to go into the light, but heard her say to NEVER go into it.

  195. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374354"][quote comment="374299"]

    [/quote]

    I’m so damn frustrated; I always watch the show at abc web site and today it’s been on the fritz.

    [/quote]
    Try Hulu?

  196. danadrew says:

    seeing in the woods. There had been speculation that the boys were growing-up versions of Jacob. But seeing what Jacob really looked like growing up, I don’t THINK they are the same actors. So… who are those boys and what is their significance?[/quote]

    I think they are the same actors.[/quote]

    They def are the same actors…imdb even states “young jacob’ in all episodes he is featured.

    so like i said… If jacob is dead…and everyone is seeing ghosts of dead young jacob, then i still am ridig with Jacob in Black aka Off Island Jake to infact be Mom In Black or MIB, smokieshapeshifters, inhabiting dead jacob’s body…..

    …yeah I’m riding with this one for a while…haha[/quote]
    Place-garden of eden.
    Smokie-devil in snake like form.
    Jacob-cheruib guardian
    Fake mom’s powers are different from smokie’s. Her victims were BURNED…smokies victims don’t look burned just tossed around and broken! Fake mom is NOT a smoke monster but a guardian with a flaming sword as taken from the bible..God places a charuib with a omnidirectional flaming sword as a guardian to the garden of eden!!!

  197. Jake328 says:

    Hey Marco,

    Here is another one so beware.

    The force that keeps Satan from doing whatever he wants is called the Holy Spirit and when that protection is removed then all hell will break loose. Kind of sounds like what will happen if MIB is released from the island.

  198. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374357"]
    Fake mom’s powers are different from smokie’s. Her victims were BURNED…smokies victims don’t look burned just tossed around and broken! Fake mom is NOT a smoke monster but a guardian with a flaming sword as taken from the bible..God places a charuib with a omnidirectional flaming sword as a guardian to the garden of eden!!![/quote]
    I like this.

  199. Jake328 says:

    Fake mom’s powers are different from smokie’s. Her victims were BURNED…smokies victims don’t look burned just tossed around and broken! Fake mom is NOT a smoke monster but a guardian with a flaming sword as taken from the bible..God places a charuib with a omnidirectional flaming sword as a guardian to the garden of eden!!!

    That is a good point

  200. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374344"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]

    Yikes! Whenever people use the phrase “seperation of church and state” I cringe because I know they will proceed to abuse what the forefathers of this country meant. Which is, as a citizen of the US, you will not be forced, I repeat forced, to join in a government sponsored religion. You are free to worship whoever and however you pleased. It does not mean that no gov’t official or office can ever speak of God. Nor does it mean we have to deny the fact that this country was founded by people who believed in God. If you don’t, fine, you still get to live here. But if others do and you don’t, don’t get your undies in a bunch and yell and scream about “seperation of church and state!!” It only means that you will not be forced into any religion that you don’t want to be a part of. Not that no-one can even talk about it.
    Now, back to LOST.[/quote]
    Despite the skewed viewpoint of the Founding Fathers opinions, (Thomas Jefferson said there is a wall of separation between church and state), I do agree that this is not the place for this kind of talk. However, I do agree that I hope this is not all just the christian theme replayed out. I have faith that the Lost writers are better than that.

  201. evolution says:

    long time reader first time posting, while watching this episode and the whole buisness of the golden light i remember back to episode 5 of season 3 “the cost of living”, when echo is drinking from the stream and turns around to see the smoke monster.Right after that locke and company come out of the jungle, later when locke asks echo what he saw he(locke) says something along the lines of ” i saw it to u know it was a bright light it was beautifull” then echo says that is not what i saw. just thought it was interesting considering the smoke came out of the light.

  202. mikemarks says:

    HOW ABOUT this… instead of this being a play on good and evil it’s… Jacob is the Constant, MIB is the Variable… we have always had dialogues on destiny or freewill… The Constant is destiny, duty, the way things are suppose to be, Order perhaps… The Variable is freedom, freewill, making somethig new, Chaos perhaps…

  203. The Kath says:

    When MIB, Jacob and Mother are discussing ever leaving the island, there are a few times one of them says something along the line of “There is no where else to go.” or “There is nothing else out there.”, etc.

    Ummmmmm can’t these people see Hydra island?

  204. LizS says:

    re: Mythology–I think Lost has had a kind of egalitarian spirit as far as mystic symbolism goes–we’ve discussed before the various kinds of symbolism/religious overtones you can see in some aspects of the show. Not just Christian, but many different kinds of religions/philosophy.

    You bring what you got to the table! If that enhances your experience of the show–why not?

    Not to mention all the Enlightenment thinkers whose names are sprinkled throughout–the Age of Reason was supposed to replace superstition and ignorance–with a belief in the ability of man to solve problems –through thinking, through science, and with a commitment to democratic ideas…

    that’s all reflected here, too. Man of Faith, Man of Science–are they necessarily opposed?

  205. marco says:

    [quote comment="374344"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]

    Yikes! Whenever people use the phrase “seperation of church and state” I cringe because I know they will proceed to abuse what the forefathers of this country meant. Which is, as a citizen of the US, you will not be forced, I repeat forced, to join in a government sponsored religion. You are free to worship whoever and however you pleased. It does not mean that no gov’t official or office can ever speak of God. Nor does it mean we have to deny the fact that this country was founded by people who believed in God. If you don’t, fine, you still get to live here. But if others do and you don’t, don’t get your undies in a bunch and yell and scream about “seperation of church and state!!” It only means that you will not be forced into any religion that you don’t want to be a part of. Not that no-one can even talk about it.
    Now, back to LOST.[/quote]

    Sorry to have touched a nerve. I wasn’t ‘yelling and screaming’, it was merely a comment. To which you’ve over reacted.

  206. LizS says:

    [quote comment="374363"]HOW ABOUT this… instead of this being a play on good and evil it’s… Jacob is the Constant, MIB is the Variable… we have always had dialogues on destiny or freewill… The Constant is destiny, duty, the way things are suppose to be, Order perhaps… The Variable is freedom, freewill, making somethig new, Chaos perhaps…[/quote]
    I like this, mm!

  207. marco says:

    [quote comment="374349"][quote comment="374250"]Bed time for Bonzo:

    I think killer mom knew more than it seemed. I found the scene weird when they stopped speaking latin?and went to english.

    I think Claudia came to MIB to persuade him to the bad side to help exploit the island. The battle of good and evil is as old as people have existed.[/quote]

    Claudia was the smoke monster!!!!!! He has been working for thousands of years to try to get off the island and create havoc everywhere he goes. He shows up looking like MIB’s biological mother to manipulate him. This story has played over and over for thousands of years with the smoke monster (evil incarnate) trying to escape to destroy the world.[/quote]

    I like this. They are all being manipulated. Also the mom was killed in the manner that suggests she was smokie but don’t forget her body remained to be found by the losties so I think she was still human.

  208. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374366"][quote comment="374344"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]

    Yikes! Whenever people use the phrase “seperation of church and state” I cringe because I know they will proceed to abuse what the forefathers of this country meant. Which is, as a citizen of the US, you will not be forced, I repeat forced, to join in a government sponsored religion. You are free to worship whoever and however you pleased. It does not mean that no gov’t official or office can ever speak of God. Nor does it mean we have to deny the fact that this country was founded by people who believed in God. If you don’t, fine, you still get to live here. But if others do and you don’t, don’t get your undies in a bunch and yell and scream about “seperation of church and state!!” It only means that you will not be forced into any religion that you don’t want to be a part of. Not that no-one can even talk about it.
    Now, back to LOST.[/quote]

    Sorry to have touched a nerve. I wasn’t ‘yelling and screaming’, it was merely a comment. To which you’ve over reacted.[/quote]

    I don’t think I over-reacted, it was just a comment too.

  209. Sierra says:

    [quote comment="374341"]no time to read all these posts cause im at work and will get reemed…but my conclusion is…

    i want the mother to be smokey and have walked into the light back in the day..maybe because MIB was dead..that he emerged as a smoke monster and his body is still there to be buried with Mother in the cave…if she wasnt dead when she entered the light then maybe she gets to keep her body…
    MIB got to kill her because he stabbed her before she talked…thats why it didnt work with sayid and flocke because he talked first…i like this idea because it also ties in with adam and eve…and the garden of eden…and the iressistable apple…kind of like the light…[/quote]

    If the mother went into the light, wouldn’t the light have gone out like it did when MIB went in? I don’t think this theory quite works.

  210. Jason says:

    [quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    So where in the Constitution does it talk about separation of church and entertainment? I must have missed that part…….

  211. Miraks says:

    Few questions/ observations.

    1. When the skeletons were first found by Jack, he said that based on the condition of their clothing, he assumed there had been there for maybe 40-50 years. How does this mesh with MIB and mom?

    2. Is the light the equivalent of the tree of knowledge?

    3. When we have seen people who have died appear to the living, it was always in the form/ age they were in when they died. So, how come we see a young Jacob running around, and not Jacob as he looked when he was stabbed?

  212. Miss lost says:

    I was wondering if the Light is the spring where the temple was built. It seemed like they were protecting it…

  213. JcK says:

    [quote comment="374367"][quote comment="374363"]HOW ABOUT this… instead of this being a play on good and evil it’s… Jacob is the Constant, MIB is the Variable… we have always had dialogues on destiny or freewill… The Constant is destiny, duty, the way things are suppose to be, Order perhaps… The Variable is freedom, freewill, making somethig new, Chaos perhaps…[/quote]
    I like this, mm![/quote]

    Nice interpretation. I like it, although, it’s then funny that if Jacob represents the constant (duty and such) it’s interesting that he’s the one who always espouses free will when it comes to our Losties.

    Anyway, I need to watch this episode again but my first reaction is that it raised FAR more questions than did it provide answers.

    I mean – they weren’t really definitive of who/what the smoke monster is or the nature or origin of the special powers of the island or some of the people on it. How did this game between MIB and Jacob develop and what are the rules? Did the mother make it up? The donkey wheel explanation was super vague….I can go on and on. I’m not trying to hate because I liked the episode. I just thought I would have a clearer understanding of the show’s core elements afterward and I’ve got anything but.

    I just hope the show didn’t intend that episode to be the major “clarifier”

  214. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="374373"]When we have seen people who have died appear to the living, it was always in the form/ age they were in when they died. So, how come we see a young Jacob running around, and not Jacob as he looked when he was stabbed?[/quote]

    I don’t think the kid MIB keeps seeing is one of the “Whispers” who can’t cross over. Jacob is a special entity. I suppose when he appears to MIB, perhaps he chooses to appear as a child since that’s when the “rules” were made and when he and MIB had a close relationship?

  215. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374372"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    So where in the Constitution does it talk about separation of church and entertainment? I must have missed that part…….[/quote]
    It’s the 42nd Amendment… Congress shall make no law respecting an entanglement of religion with entertainment, or prohibiting the free blogging thereof…

  216. rowjimmy says:

    After last weeks debacle of a show I was really looking for redemption from D&C with this week.I honestly feel like D&C fired the original writers and replaced them with recent college grads.
    Man are you guys putting lipstick on a boar or what!Just a couple of gripes here we go!

    Let me get this right:
    Jacob is a sniveling little mommas boy and MIB has noname,BS even Johnny Cash had a boy named Sue.Hell John Wayne even had a dog named DAWG.
    So Adam & Eve are MIB and mom I was really hoping for Rose & Bernard seeing as forensic Dr. Jack diagnosed them to be dead 40 or 50 years when we first met.
    So we are protecting a golden light that all men want more of,must be full of twinkies.
    Now we know where Lockes body is at,we know where MIBs body is at where is CHRISTIAN he’s still MIA, just a little window of hope on the Christian=Jacob theory the original writers had.

  217. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="374376"][quote comment="374373"]When we have seen people who have died appear to the living, it was always in the form/ age they were in when they died. So, how come we see a young Jacob running around, and not Jacob as he looked when he was stabbed?[/quote]

    I don’t think the kid MIB keeps seeing is one of the “Whispers” who can’t cross over. Jacob is a special entity. I suppose when he appears to MIB, perhaps he chooses to appear as a child since that’s when the “rules” were made and when he and MIB had a close relationship?[/quote]
    ******************
    think it is interesting that the fake mom said the light was life, death and rebirth…was Jacob reborn and is now growing up and appearing to MIB?
    Here is the hole I think…if Jacob can just be reborn, why couldn’t anyone else and why would he need a replacement candidate?

  218. HollyP says:

    IMHO it is very plausible that the adoptive mother did not have Smokey-like powers. She knocked out MIB late in the day. She could have hung around the lit the huts on fire during the night, killing the men. The huts would have been made of dried wood & leaves, very flammable. But then, the well with the donkey wheel was all filled it, I suppose she had to have some sort of power to do that.

    I liked seeing that Jacob has changed over the years, becoming wiser. He is more about choice than Ole’ Smokey. He has allowed people to come to a decision on their own (a la Jack in the Lighthouse) while Smokey has relied on trickery (Faux Alex manipulating Ben) or lies (Sayid.)

  219. Jason says:

    [quote comment="374377"][quote comment="374372"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    So where in the Constitution does it talk about separation of church and entertainment? I must have missed that part…….[/quote]
    It’s the 42nd Amendment… Congress shall make no law respecting an entanglement of religion with entertainment, or prohibiting the free blogging thereof…[/quote]
    _________________________________
    LOL…oh yeah…how could I have missed that part?? And I teach U.S. History!! LOL

  220. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374377"][quote comment="374372"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]
    ____________________________________
    So where in the Constitution does it talk about separation of church and entertainment? I must have missed that part…….[/quote]
    It’s the 42nd Amendment… Congress shall make no law respecting an entanglement of religion with entertainment, or prohibiting the free blogging thereof…[/quote]

    lol, well, there it is. So it is written, so it shall be!

  221. justguessing says:

    I found it interesting how BIB teaching Jacob to play the game was the same manner in which Locke taught Walt to play. The Others said they ran some sort of test on Walt, maybe similar to Sayid’s test, but Walt passed and was deemed special and allowed to leave. I bring this up only to ask what gets your name crossed off the list as a potential candidate? Kate is a huge part of the show yet for weeks now we’ve heard how her name was crossed out. Is it just me or does Claudia and fake mom seem very similar to Kate and Claire. Claire is real mom but Kate(fake mom) raised Aaron. Now this may be a little off the wall but here it goes anyway… We know that on the island BIB was not expected which is why Claudia only had one name which she picked before he was even born. What if in the sideways timeline, Claire has twins and she is only expecting Aaron, which she picked before he was born and Jacob is not expected? I think Kate’s name was crossed off when she was no longer raising Aaron.

  222. LizS says:

    [quote comment="374378"]
    So we are protecting a golden light that all men want more of,must be full of twinkies.
    [/quote]
    LOL, that’s right, the most important substance in the universe!!

  223. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374384"][quote comment="374378"]
    So we are protecting a golden light that all men want more of,must be full of twinkies.
    [/quote]
    LOL, that’s right, the most important substance in the universe!![/quote]
    Oh….that’s why Twinkies don’t expire…

  224. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="374356"][quote comment="374354"][quote comment="374299"]

    [/quote]

    I’m so damn frustrated; I always watch the show at abc web site and today it’s been on the fritz.

    [/quote]
    Try Hulu?[/quote]
    ——
    Thanks, I got it to play finally…but it kept stalling.

    Well, I didn’t really like the episode…it dragged on when I think it could have been edited down and included some of the aspects I love most about LOST; the back and forth cuts to action elsewhere or different time jumps.
    And it didn’t really tell me what I need; which brother is doing the right thing?
    I mean Jakob’s brother seemed to have his justification for killing Fake Mom in that if he believed the vision his real dead mother. I’d be pissed off too knowing my lovely mother was killed because she might (gasp!) want to take me off the island. And especially after the “I’m sorry….WHAM (ooh, that musta hurt)!” …and the “I just killed all your friends in the camp.” No Mothers Day card for her!
    Nice effect with Smokey coming out of the light tunnel, but what does it all mean?
    I see less Adam and Eve (some form of Oedipus maybe) than Cain and Abel.
    And can’t Fake Mom just F-ing say WHY they can’t leave the Island? It’s all like some big mystery even for the boys who are supposed to be protecting her precious Light of the World. It’s getting too silly.
    Some light! Makes it ok for F-Mom to slaughter a poor birthing Mother. Makes her look more like the Devil.

    So, we still don’t understand “the rules” and what is going on. That was also an awkward transition between languages at the beginning.

    Also not making ANY sense;
    Fake mom delivers one baby…no umbilical in sight or Blood…sets the kid aside while there is STILL A HUGE LUMP visible in real Mom…and F-Mom somehow doesn’t even notice this huge mound right in front of her until R-mom starts moaning again…and AGAIN…no umbilical, no blood…NO SENSE.
    I get the feeling I’m gonna be bitching about the show after it’s done telling people; it had some great parts but went into the ditch at the end. Just skip it.
    But I hope not.

    I also hope this show does not boil down to some Biblical nonsense;
    I think Christianity is such a dumb anti human religion that wants to pretend that they got all the answers even if it contradicts basic scientific fact. And the God of the Old Testament was one evil bugger. But sure, an old man got two of every animal onto a boat and kept them alive for 40 days (even though you couldn’t even build a boat big enough for all the insects in the world)…and later a Jewish guy walked on water. And if you want to argue with that you could be burned alive in certain times. It’s a religion with a track record of pure evil.

    Someone posted here that America was founded by people who believed in God. How the hell do you know for sure? How many people just went along saying they believed when they really didn’t and to say so would have cost them their whole lives and position in Communities that demanded conformity.
    But America was surely founded on pushing the Natives off their land and murdering them in droves…so should we continue that too? Sounds like I don’t believe in God but I do; just not the Biblical one. BUT I ALSO REPECT ATHEISTS. And having Presidents sworn in on a Bible is wrong; it’s like swearing in on The Wizard of Oz to me. Why not use the Constitution? Just sayin’.

  225. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374383"]I found it interesting how BIB teaching Jacob to play the game was the same manner in which Locke taught Walt to play. The Others said they ran some sort of test on Walt, maybe similar to Sayid’s test, but Walt passed and was deemed special and allowed to leave. I bring this up only to ask what gets your name crossed off the list as a potential candidate? Kate is a huge part of the show yet for weeks now we’ve heard how her name was crossed out. Is it just me or does Claudia and fake mom seem very similar to Kate and Claire. Claire is real mom but Kate(fake mom) raised Aaron. Now this may be a little off the wall but here it goes anyway… We know that on the island BIB was not expected which is why Claudia only had one name which she picked before he was even born. What if in the sideways timeline, Claire has twins and she is only expecting Aaron, which she picked before he was born and Jacob is not expected? I think Kate’s name was crossed off when she was no longer raising Aaron.[/quote]

    This show is all about parallels to other storylines, either in Bible stories, popular books or its own Lost storyline. It’s a hook the writers have done to keep us guessing and sniffing after things that may or may not be there.

    Anyway, by the time this show ends, Claire’s FSW will have given birth and it might just be twins. I still get the feeling Kate will have a big role in this too. I have a feeling her name being crossed off was more of a trick by Jacob to protect her rather than writing her off as not needed. She was the only one who hasn’t died yet her name was crossed off. hmmm.

  226. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="374387"][quote comment="374383"]I found it interesting how BIB teaching Jacob to play the game was the same manner in which Locke taught Walt to play. The Others said they ran some sort of test on Walt, maybe similar to Sayid’s test, but Walt passed and was deemed special and allowed to leave. I bring this up only to ask what gets your name crossed off the list as a potential candidate? Kate is a huge part of the show yet for weeks now we’ve heard how her name was crossed out. Is it just me or does Claudia and fake mom seem very similar to Kate and Claire. Claire is real mom but Kate(fake mom) raised Aaron. Now this may be a little off the wall but here it goes anyway… We know that on the island BIB was not expected which is why Claudia only had one name which she picked before he was even born. What if in the sideways timeline, Claire has twins and she is only expecting Aaron, which she picked before he was born and Jacob is not expected? I think Kate’s name was crossed off when she was no longer raising Aaron.[/quote]

    This show is all about parallels to other storylines, either in Bible stories, popular books or its own Lost storyline. It’s a hook the writers have done to keep us guessing and sniffing after things that may or may not be there.

    Anyway, by the time this show ends, Claire’s FSW will have given birth and it might just be twins. I still get the feeling Kate will have a big role in this too. I have a feeling her name being crossed off was more of a trick by Jacob to protect her rather than writing her off as not needed. She was the only one who hasn’t died yet her name was crossed off. hmmm.[/quote]
    Good point. It’s possible. Jacob has to have a trick or two up his sleeve.

  227. LostLove says:

    Bobola,

    You and me need to have a few beers sometime. lol
    I agree with your Lost takes from last night. The show was interesting, but did not clear a whole lot up about the origin of the island or the “game”. Anyway, these last 3.5 hrs must be some power packed episodes that I fear won’t allow you to get up for a bathroom or fridge break. Make the the DVR is set, people!!

    About your outlook on God, religion etc.., you seem to be one twisted dude that I would love to hear more from, just not at this site.

    D&C, please come strong to the finish line!!!

  228. andre gr says:

    [quote comment="374181"]

    I hope we find out who the kid in the forest is.
    [/quote]

    I am surprised nobody mentioned it. IT’S JACOB.

  229. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374390"][quote comment="374181"]

    I hope we find out who the kid in the forest is.
    [/quote]

    I am surprised nobody mentioned it. IT’S JACOB.[/quote]

    I beleive we have, over and over and over again.

  230. mikemarks says:

    [quote comment="374387"][quote comment="374383"]I found it interesting how BIB teaching Jacob to play the game was the same manner in which Locke taught Walt to play. The Others said they ran some sort of test on Walt, maybe similar to Sayid’s test, but Walt passed and was deemed special and allowed to leave. I bring this up only to ask what gets your name crossed off the list as a potential candidate? Kate is a huge part of the show yet for weeks now we’ve heard how her name was crossed out. Is it just me or does Claudia and fake mom seem very similar to Kate and Claire. Claire is real mom but Kate(fake mom) raised Aaron. Now this may be a little off the wall but here it goes anyway… We know that on the island BIB was not expected which is why Claudia only had one name which she picked before he was even born. What if in the sideways timeline, Claire has twins and she is only expecting Aaron, which she picked before he was born and Jacob is not expected? I think Kate’s name was crossed off when she was no longer raising Aaron.[/quote]

    This show is all about parallels to other storylines, either in Bible stories, popular books or its own Lost storyline. It’s a hook the writers have done to keep us guessing and sniffing after things that may or may not be there.

    Anyway, by the time this show ends, Claire’s FSW will have given birth and it might just be twins. I still get the feeling Kate will have a big role in this too. I have a feeling her name being crossed off was more of a trick by Jacob to protect her rather than writing her off as not needed. She was the only one who hasn’t died yet her name was crossed off. hmmm.[/quote]
    We all must pay for our crimes to keep he cosmic balance, no matter how lovable we are… Kate killed her mother’s boyfriend ((and, alongwith the other lostees, some dozen others on the island… or am I assuming? What’s a specific case of Kate killin some one else?)and may serve her time as protectr of the island rather than man’s concrete cage.

  231. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="374383"]I found it interesting how BIB teaching Jacob to play the game was the same manner in which Locke taught Walt to play. The Others said they ran some sort of test on Walt, maybe similar to Sayid’s test, but Walt passed and was deemed special and allowed to leave. I bring this up only to ask what gets your name crossed off the list as a potential candidate? Kate is a huge part of the show yet for weeks now we’ve heard how her name was crossed out. Is it just me or does Claudia and fake mom seem very similar to Kate and Claire. Claire is real mom but Kate(fake mom) raised Aaron. Now this may be a little off the wall but here it goes anyway… We know that on the island BIB was not expected which is why Claudia only had one name which she picked before he was even born. What if in the sideways timeline, Claire has twins and she is only expecting Aaron, which she picked before he was born and Jacob is not expected? I think Kate’s name was crossed off when she was no longer raising Aaron.[/quote]
    ******
    I am not saying it is not possible, but she did have an ultrasound and I think they only showed one baby. The interesting thing about Claire having Aaron in the original time line is she too did not have a name picked out, but it just came to her! It is as if she always knew he was suppose to be named Aaron.

  232. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374374"]I was wondering if the Light is the spring where the temple was built. It seemed like they were protecting it…[/quote]

    I thought that also.

  233. LostLove says:

    Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?

  234. LostGrrl says:

    PLEASE no religion arguments! We can’t even agree on runways and Twinkies on this board. Let’s not attempt religion.

  235. LostGrrl says:

    [quote comment="374395"]Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?[/quote]

    My votes: No and No. (But that’s okay…)

  236. wally p says:

    Ok, so this is what makes sense to me now….

    I like the idea that MIB (the second brother) was unplanned… as in, he wasn’t there the first time around.

    No one knows exactly what the hell they are doing on this island, and they never have. What your fate becomes on the island is always based on who you decide to inherit it from.

    What brings them to the island? NOT Jacob,it has never been Jacob. Whatever brought any of them there is what brought Jacobs mother there, and anyone else for ever.

    Some are brought by the right forces (protectors) and some are brought by the wrong forces (decievers/manipulators)

    Its sfe to say that the lines between good and bad are grayer here then anywhere else.

    MIB is NOT the smoke. The smoke is the smoke, it is the black to the white light. MIB is meant to establish the feeling that he COULD be evil, but he is not, he just embodies a trait that the SMOKE wants… to get off the island. This story regarding Jacob and MIB, while being completely rad, actually hasnt much to do with the smoke monster at all. There are TWO different stories that have sprung off it…

    A. Man In Black meets the SMOKE (his dead mom)
    and then…
    B. Jacob meets the SMOKE (his dead brother)

    Everything else is still a mystery. Tales From Lost Island.

  237. wally p says:

    ….which leads to what is really important.

    LOCKE embodies the traits that BOTH the white light and the black smoke wish to embody into human form.

  238. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374396"]PLEASE no religion arguments! We can’t even agree on runways and Twinkies on this board. Let’s not attempt religion.[/quote]

    LOL Hmmm, the runway argument must have been before my time.
    I can just imagine though the arguments/discussions that have taken place here and in other blogs tha tseem so irrelevant now. For example, I bet there was huge discussions when Locke found the map of all the Dharma locations on the island when lying trapped under the door. Seems all meaningless and silly now that we are on to things like good vs evil, protector of the island etc..,

  239. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374395"]Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?[/quote]
    I think 90% was written from the beginning. It ties together from the start in so many ways. I simply don’t believe that Hollywood/current entertainment writers have the creative brains to write this from season to season and have it mesh the way it does.

  240. Seajam says:

    [quote comment="374395"]Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?[/quote]

    I think they did not have it mapped out completely, episode by episode. Instead I think they knew where each character should be at the end of each season. In other words, at the end of season 4, Jack is at this place in this time period and has had these experiences. They left it up to the writers to get the characters to where they needed to be. It is not in their best interest (in the TV world at least) for them to admit to anything.

  241. danadrew says:

    [quote comment="374361"][quote comment="374344"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]

    Yikes! Whenever people use the phrase “seperation of church and state” I cringe because I know they will proceed to abuse what the forefathers of this country meant. Which is, as a citizen of the US, you will not be forced, I repeat forced, to join in a government sponsored religion. You are free to worship whoever and however you pleased. It does not mean that no gov’t official or office can ever speak of God. Nor does it mean we have to deny the fact that this country was founded by people who believed in God. If you don’t, fine, you still get to live here. But if others do and you don’t, don’t get your undies in a bunch and yell and scream about “seperation of church and state!!” It only means that you will not be forced into any religion that you don’t want to be a part of. Not that no-one can even talk about it.
    Now, back to LOST.[/quote]
    Despite the skewed viewpoint of the Founding Fathers opinions, (Thomas Jefferson said there is a wall of separation between church and state), I do agree that this is not the place for this kind of talk. However, I do agree that I hope this is not all just the christian theme replayed out. I have faith that the Lost writers are better than that.[/quote]
    Just so u know the garden of eden is in the old testament…many religions believe in this.

  242. wally p says:

    [quote comment="374363"]HOW ABOUT this… instead of this being a play on good and evil it’s… Jacob is the Constant, MIB is the Variable… we have always had dialogues on destiny or freewill… The Constant is destiny, duty, the way things are suppose to be, Order perhaps… The Variable is freedom, freewill, making somethig new, Chaos perhaps…[/quote]

    I like it… MIB is the variable. Mom knew that she was having baby Jacob… she had no idea she was having baby (?)…
    Also think about the closeness that crazy mom felt towards the (?) (no more MIB, it seems disrespectful now) as far as we know she had no name either… so she could also be a (?) no name, a variable,,, one minute a ROM, the next minute a GOODSPEED….you know what I’m saying???

  243. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374395"]Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?[/quote]
    I believe they have already come clean several times that the writing had to be fluid and parts of the story have changed, but the basic story was there. Ideas were let to flourish during the writing of episodes.

    Check out questions 5 and 6 in this interview:

    http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/lost_showrunners_damon_lindelo.html

  244. liars says:

    [quote comment="374397"][quote comment="374395"]Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?[/quote]

    My votes: No and No. (But that’s okay…)[/quote]
    No Way! The writers in the real world and through the show keep trying to say STOP LOOKING FOR ALL THE ANSWERS AND JUST ENJOY IT. Some viewers feel..well yeah I’d like more answers but it is about ASKING questions so lets just try to enjoy it. THIS IS SUCK A CROCK OF SHIT. Most mysteries genre shows are answered at the end of the hour…some do it per year…but imagine how an episode of house or any other show would feel if at the end nothing was figured out. It’s RIDICULOUS! Well on lost, from the first episode the questions were asked in a way that allowed us to trust they KNEW WHAT THE ANSWERS WERE. IT’S BY FAR THE BIGGEST REASON WE’VE HUNG IN THERE FOR SO LONG. That’s how they market it…The promos always say..”finally all the answers you’ve been waiting for. We trusted and now were even trying to make ourselves feel better about it. It reminds me of the x-files with “The truth is out there” but for a few reasons I won’t get into, that was not nearly as big a travesty. Turns out 95% of all the little details that wer shown in a very specific way to let us know it means something…MEANT NOTHING! NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO COVER THE BEST THEY CAN THAT WE’VE BEEN LIED TO FROM THE START!! SO MUCH OF OUR TIME HAS BEEN WASTED ONBULLSHIT!!

  245. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374406"][quote comment="374397"][quote comment="374395"][/quote]

    (But that’s okay…)[/quote]
    No Way!… MEANT NOTHING! NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO COVER THE BEST THEY CAN THAT WE’VE BEEN LIED TO FROM THE START!! SO MUCH OF OUR TIME HAS BEEN WASTED ONxxxxx!![/quote]
    Yet your still reading this blog and went through 200+ posts to find this…

    What is your normal name on this blog?

  246. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="374407"][quote comment="374406"][quote comment="374397"][quote comment="374395"][/quote]

    (But that’s okay…)[/quote]
    No Way!… MEANT NOTHING! NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO COVER THE BEST THEY CAN THAT WE’VE BEEN LIED TO FROM THE START!! SO MUCH OF OUR TIME HAS BEEN WASTED ONxxxxx!![/quote]
    Yet your still reading this blog and went through 200+ posts to find this…

    What is your normal name on this blog?[/quote]
    ***************
    LMAOROF….I was thinking the same thing. I don’t understand if you are THAT disgusted with something why invest the time. It is a “choice” right. I also thought the same thing about reading this blog…big waste of time if you are not interested…
    and for the most part, i just skip the rants because they are not relevant to me. Not every episode may be favorite, but I love Lost!

  247. Miss lost says:

    here is something else…maybe they do read blogs and listen to their fans and maybe, just maybe they realize that something wasn’t explained well enough or something they thought was obvious to them was not obvious to us. I think this is why we have seen so much review and the enhanced versions.
    Funny how after all these years we can still debate some of things when I watch are obvious!

    For example…today there is still debate over if the smoke monster = MIB. We have been told in this season that MIN does in fact = smoke monster.
    Last nights episode was meant to show us HOW he became that entity!

  248. Amber says:

    I love lost and have put up with my friends making fun of me for years. However last nights episode had me shaking my head saying oh my gosh this is ridiculous. The Adam and Eve thing was not good at all. All im saying is we have invested all this time into this show just to be thrown new characters at the end and when the mom turned out to be Eve I was like huh…..not cool. no way they had this all planned from the begining. your telling me the cast all of our main characters knowing they werent even going to be the big players. just some random ass people they threw in season 5 and 6

  249. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="374410"]I love lost and have put up with my friends making fun of me for years. However last nights episode had me shaking my head saying oh my gosh this is ridiculous. The Adam and Eve thing was not good at all. All im saying is we have invested all this time into this show just to be thrown new characters at the end and when the mom turned out to be Eve I was like huh…..not cool. no way they had this all planned from the begining. your telling me the cast all of our main characters knowing they werent even going to be the big players. just some random ass people they threw in season 5 and 6[/quote]
    ****************
    Amber…I don’t think she was literlly EVE…when the losties found the skeletons on the island, it was the first reference to our losties that they were not alone and that others had in fact been on that island. At least that is how I took it.

  250. Miss lost says:

    sorry about spelling errors today…I am not rereading very well…I obviously meant MIB in earlier post and literally…

  251. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374409"]here is something else…maybe they do read blogs and listen to their fans and maybe, just maybe they realize that something wasn’t explained well enough or something they thought was obvious to them was not obvious to us. I think this is why we have seen so much review and the enhanced versions.
    Funny how after all these years we can still debate some of things when I watch are obvious!

    For example…today there is still debate over if the smoke monster = MIB. We have been told in this season that MIN does in fact = smoke monster.
    Last nights episode was meant to show us HOW he became that entity![/quote]

    I thought todays debate was if smokie existed b/4 the body of Jacob’s brother was tossed into the light? I don’t think anyone questions the simple Smokie=MIB(after the “ride to the light excursion”)=fLocke

    But I do understand your general exasperation on some of these debates. I believe some who visit the blog don’t necesarily read thru all the previous posts first before posting their own.

  252. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374412"]sorry about spelling errors today…I am not rereading very well…I obviously meant MIB in earlier post and literally…[/quote]

    Thats OK, I didnt think you meant Minnesota(MIN)=smoke monster. Although it wouldn’t surprise me with those Vikings fans, hey oh!!

  253. Mr. $tuart says:

    After thinking more about last night’s episode, I have decided that I do love the fact that even Jacob and MIB have no clue what the hell is going on.

  254. liars says:

    [quote comment="374408"][quote comment="374407"][quote comment="374406"][quote comment="374397"][quote comment="374395"][/quote]

    (But that’s okay…)[/quote]
    No Way!… MEANT NOTHING! NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO COVER THE BEST THEY CAN THAT WE’VE BEEN LIED TO FROM THE START!! SO MUCH OF OUR TIME HAS BEEN WASTED ONxxxxx!![/quote]
    Yet your still reading this blog and went through 200+ posts to find this…

    What is your normal name on this blog?[/quote]
    ***************
    LMAOROF….I was thinking the same thing. I don’t understand if you are THAT disgusted with something why invest the time. It is a “choice” right. I also thought the same thing about reading this blog…big waste of time if you are not interested…
    and for the most part, i just skip the rants because they are not relevant to me. Not every episode may be favorite, but I love Lost![/quote]
    That was actually the first comment I’ve made on here. I’ve been holding on to that last bit of hope…but now it’s become CLEAR to me that we all initially assumed they atleast knew the answers to the big questions..and we were wrong! If you except that and understand what it means then you can only feel dissapointment and in my case anger. The whole purpose of watching never really existed! Anyway, I was thinking about, found this blog (first one I clicked on to) and admittedly only read about the 25 most recent posts…I guess your saying most people on hear don’t feel this way

    That’s cool just needed to share

  255. Anne says:

    [quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).[/quote]
    Good point! Thanks for helping to clarify it for me. I would like to see that first encounter between Jacob and Smokey/MIB, though. I think it would help to explain a lot about Smokey’s origin and purpose.[/quote]
    [/quote] Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]

    I don’t think a new antagonist is trying to be introduced. The smoke monster is as old as episode 1, season 1. If anything, MIB is a new character (introduced the end of season 5) to try to explain Smokie. I think MIB is crucial in the story of Smokie, but I don’t think MIB = Smokie. I think saying that Smokie is a separate entity is a viable theory, even at this stage of the story of LOST.

    Ever since I saw the episode this season of Jabob and MIB sitting together with the corked bottle of wine, I got the picture of a Genie in a bottle. Smokie (the Genie) wants to get out. We found out in yesterday’s episode that Smokie came from the source of light. Is that source of light the same electromagnetic field that has kept Smokie away in Dharmaville and with Widmore’s people? Perhaps the light was keeping Smokie trapped and somehow, when MIB was forced into the water/light by Jacob, he released Smokie. It was like rubbing the Genie bottle. Now Jacob’s replacement needs to figure out how to keep it on the Island, and better yet how to “cork” Smokie back into the original source of light. I think that is what our Losties will be seeking to do in our last few hours.

  256. Belle says:

    I could be totally wrong but I think the ghost of Claudia knew Jacob’s brother would want to know the truth and be with their people, the others that were shipwrecked. If we assume the fake mother had gone into the light and became Smokey, why would she take the form of Claudia and then tell the boy the truth? The dead or whisperers are watching so they would hear the conversations of the people. Fake mom describes how warm the light is etc.. which further leads me to believe she experienced it. She also wouldn’t have orchestrated events to have Jacob’s brother leave and subsequently have Jacob throw his brother in the water. Jacob did that in a fit of rage after the mother was stabbed. He would have no way of knowing what would happen. The brother said “You can’t kill me, mother made it that way” and Jacob said “I’m not going to kill you.” I agree with Hammer, not being able to hurt each other actually meant kill. Fake mom wanted Jacob’s brother to be the next Protector since the beginning. That’s why when the boy asked “What is dead?” she said that’s something you’ll never have to worry about. She intended to give him the Immortal Wine when the time was right, when he was older. Jacob also knew this and said so. (Could that be the reason The Others took children to protect them?) I think being the Smoke Monster doesn’t make you evil incarnate. We saw the love between the brothers and eventually MIB began to do evil out of his bitterness, frustration and longing to go home, to be free and see what was across the sea. We can only imagine the curse of being Smokey besides not having a physical body anymore.

  257. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374307"][quote comment="374291"]If anything she was a murderer, a liar and a deceiver. What she did to the brothers was awful. Jacob didn’t want to be the protector but she tricked him and said he didn’t have a choice. I think Jacob stayed with her because he felt guilty about leaving her alone. He said he would stay for awhile but he’s still with her after 30 years. She manipulated him. I think in time he would have gone with his brother. He often visited MIB to play the game. MIB asked why he came to just watch and Jacob said to see if mother was right about the people. He did observe since he said they didn’t seem bad but I think he mainly came to see his brother.

    I’m guessing someone conned the mother into being the island protector too.[/quote]

    Yes, but I think what she did was for the greater good. It seems to me she already knew why they came to the island and they were there to exploit it. She knew she would need a replacement and took advantage of the situation. Claudia was a whisperer for the evil side IMO.

    I also think that Jacob ‘hired’ Richard because he didn’t like being convinced to be the protector (but now appreciates WHY she did it, just like she said). He wants people to choose on their own (what he told Hugo about Jack AND what he told Richard).

    She may have been conned, but it sure seems to me that a protector is needed to keep the exploiters from ruining the world.[/quote]

    I believe this too. Unless you were a John Locke that wanted to stay on the island, I assume all Protectors were conned to a point. Later each one realized the importance of the job and accepted it for the greater good.

  258. Anne says:

    [quote comment="374398"]Ok, so this is what makes sense to me now….

    I like the idea that MIB (the second brother) was unplanned… as in, he wasn’t there the first time around.

    No one knows exactly what the hell they are doing on this island, and they never have. What your fate becomes on the island is always based on who you decide to inherit it from.

    What brings them to the island? NOT Jacob,it has never been Jacob. Whatever brought any of them there is what brought Jacobs mother there, and anyone else for ever.

    Some are brought by the right forces (protectors) and some are brought by the wrong forces (decievers/manipulators)

    Its sfe to say that the lines between good and bad are grayer here then anywhere else.

    MIB is NOT the smoke. The smoke is the smoke, it is the black to the white light. MIB is meant to establish the feeling that he COULD be evil, but he is not, he just embodies a trait that the SMOKE wants… to get off the island. This story regarding Jacob and MIB, while being completely rad, actually hasnt much to do with the smoke monster at all. There are TWO different stories that have sprung off it…

    A. Man In Black meets the SMOKE (his dead mom)
    and then…
    B. Jacob meets the SMOKE (his dead brother)

    Everything else is still a mystery. Tales From Lost Island.[/quote]

    I like this!

  259. Alex says:

    Check out Kate’s interview with Jimmy Fallon last night!

    http://www.roflcentral.com/jimmy-fallon-talks-to-losts-evangeline-lilly/

  260. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374332"][quote comment="374328"][quote comment="374281"]Also man in lockes says stuff that only locke would know like dont tell me what i cant do and just little otjher snippet of locke even though we know he is defiently not locke well i thin its the same case with mib . I believe what ever took his form too it in the same way as he toos lockes form. it did not reinhabit loces body but made like a clone of him that has his thought meomories and expressions.. so i think we will see jacob in futher episodes address mib lie everyone adresses fake locke. and i bvelieve that is the reason jacob did not mind dying because he was the cause to his own suffering and felt bad about being responsible for his brothers death and not leaving the island as we see jacob fulfiling his brothers dream and being off island and seeing what is across the sea.[/quote]

    Jacob didn’t mind dying as he had his replacement on the island and that death was welcomed just like how Jacob’s “mom” welcomed death by saying thank you to Jacob’s bro.[/quote]

    I agree, I think fake mom set it up so MIB would kill her and set her free, now that she had her replacement. In the last seen where she and Jacob were together, she conveyed that she knew she wasn’t coming back. Then she seemed very intentional as she sat there quietly with her back exposed so MIB could come up from behind and stab her.[/quote]

    I agree to a point. I wouldn’t necessarily say she set it up but she definitely was saying her goodbyes to Jacob, her replacement, by telling him to be careful. You could see it on her face. It was twofold. I feel her MAIN priority was to protect the light and so she went to stop MIB from what he and the men were going to do. She knew the consequences that would come out of it. Since she knew what her “son” was like, she knew he would be infuriated after spending 30 years trying to find a way to get off the island only to have her ruin it all. She knew he would most likely kill her for what she did and she welcomed it.

  261. SW says:

    Hey everyone. This is my first time to this blog as I was curious about what others are thinking about how this series is going to end. So here are some of my thoughts, all be it may be full of holes, and some I may have some misinformation about. And when it comes down to it, some of us may be right, and all of us may be wrong. As much as I like to speculate, I actually hope I’m wrong, as I’d love to be surprised.

    I do think the MIB is smokey. Whether he shed his human form or whatever I won’t get into. But I think fake mom was smokey, too. Smokeycan take on the form of people it has encountered, which leads me to believe maybe fake mom as smokeytook on the form of real mom to lead mib away from her to separate the twins. She may have even been visiting mib throughout the years as Jacob, though I don’t know how much weight I put into that. She put events into motion and manipulated the twins to kill/release her. I think she knew that when mib killed her, as she had planned, Jacob would become enraged and throw him into the light. Now mib is stuck as smokey. Does that mean that his only way off the island would really ultimately only be death?

    Now if it wasn’t fake mom, but really real mom’s spirit visiting mib, then that indicated to me that there really are spirits on the island, and some people can see them. Besides Hurley, I think the other characters that people have seen were mib posing as them (ie: Jack’s dad). Has anyone else seen spirits we assume aren’t mib? Assuming parallels, that could make a case for Hurley who is seeing and talking to dead people following mib’s path.

    I like the theory presented that Claire will have twins in the alternate reality. Hadn’t thought about that. I don’t remember clearly enough the episode where she had Aaron on the island. Is there any way she had twins and we, the viewers, weren’t privy to the birth of the second?

    I have thought for some time that Aaron was the last candidate, or at least going to replace Jacob, if that’s who the candidate actually is. I believe Aaron was the one that was referred to in the lighthouse that needs to be brought back to the island.

    Has anyone thought that whoever replaces Jacob and maybe mib have to be born on the island, and obviously conceived elsewhere? Seems like a blatant parallel between Aaron and Jacob/mib.

    I’ve also thought that the candidates might not necessarily be Jacob/mib’s replacement. Maybe the candidate is really to replace Desmond’s character. To keep the island’s energy balanced, or maybe someone else. Jacob/mib’s replacements may just be. Also, since they are Jacob’s candidates, and Locke/smokey wants them dead, smokey thinks the final candidate will be able to keep him on the island, but since there is so much manipulation and deception with many of the characters on the island, maybe mib doesn’t really know what the candidate is for.

    Wish I had found this blog earlier. I love talking to friends about it. Many more ideas, but I’ll leave it at this.

  262. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374416"][quote comment="374408"][quote comment="374407"][quote comment="374406"][quote comment="374397"][quote comment="374395"][/quote]

    (But that’s okay…)[/quote]
    No Way!… MEANT NOTHING! NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO COVER THE BEST THEY CAN THAT WE’VE BEEN LIED TO FROM THE START!! SO MUCH OF OUR TIME HAS BEEN WASTED ONxxxxx!![/quote]
    Yet your still reading this blog and went through 200+ posts to find this…

    What is your normal name on this blog?[/quote]
    ***************
    LMAOROF….I was thinking the same thing. I don’t understand if you are THAT disgusted with something why invest the time. It is a “choice” right. I also thought the same thing about reading this blog…big waste of time if you are not interested…
    and for the most part, i just skip the rants because they are not relevant to me. Not every episode may be favorite, but I love Lost![/quote]
    That was actually the first comment I’ve made on here. I’ve been holding on to that last bit of hope…but now it’s become CLEAR to me that we all initially assumed they atleast knew the answers to the big questions..and we were wrong! If you except that and understand what it means then you can only feel dissapointment and in my case anger. The whole purpose of watching never really existed! Anyway, I was thinking about, found this blog (first one I clicked on to) and admittedly only read about the 25 most recent posts…I guess your saying most people on hear don’t feel this way

    That’s cool just needed to share[/quote]
    Yep…I can your point…just find it hard to believe that this episode is what made you decide LOST is a waste of time…it is quite LOSTlike…

  263. The Kath says:

    I know it has been discussed on this blog that there is also white smoke and maybe that is Jacob’s smokey form. I am still on the fence about that idea but for people who thinks there is a white smoke monster I would like to hear any ideas on thinking Jacob or some one else went into the light

  264. zeke says:

    LostLove, Very Well Said!!

    Its freedom OF Religion, not Freedom From Religion.
    The Founding Fathers were smart enough to know that Government would corrupt Christianity.

    [quote comment="374344"][quote comment="374339"][quote comment="374333"]Its so simple people. All the referrnces have been there all along….they are in the garden of eden!!! In the bible God places a charuib with a flaming sword as the guardian after we were banished and smokie is the devil in snake-like form as it also states in the bible! That’s why they refered back to the adam and eve comments! Think about it![/quote]

    I for one will find it very offensive if all of this turns out to be religous/christian.

    Separation of church and entertainment is every bit as important as the separation of church and state.[/quote]

    Yikes! Whenever people use the phrase “seperation of church and state” I cringe because I know they will proceed to abuse what the forefathers of this country meant. Which is, as a citizen of the US, you will not be forced, I repeat forced, to join in a government sponsored religion. You are free to worship whoever and however you pleased. It does not mean that no gov’t official or office can ever speak of God. Nor does it mean we have to deny the fact that this country was founded by people who believed in God. If you don’t, fine, you still get to live here. But if others do and you don’t, don’t get your undies in a bunch and yell and scream about “seperation of church and state!!” It only means that you will not be forced into any religion that you don’t want to be a part of. Not that no-one can even talk about it.
    Now, back to LOST.[/quote]

  265. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374420"][quote comment="374398"]Ok, so this is what makes sense to me now….

    MIB is NOT the smoke. The smoke is the smoke, it is the black to the white light. MIB is meant to establish the feeling that he COULD be evil, but he is not, he just embodies a trait that the SMOKE wants… to get off the island. This story regarding Jacob and MIB, while being completely rad, actually hasnt much to do with the smoke monster at all. There are TWO different stories that have sprung off it…

    A. Man In Black meets the SMOKE (his dead mom)
    and then…
    B. Jacob meets the SMOKE (his dead brother)

    Everything else is still a mystery. Tales From Lost Island.[/quote]

    I like this![/quote]

    I thrice that!

  266. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374360"]Fake mom’s powers are different from smokie’s. Her victims were BURNED…smokies victims don’t look burned just tossed around and broken! Fake mom is NOT a smoke monster but a guardian with a flaming sword as taken from the bible..God places a charuib with a omnidirectional flaming sword as a guardian to the garden of eden!!!

    That is a good point[/quote]

    I saw victims that were charred and others were very bloody. Smokey’s victims have been thrashed around and very bloody. Just think of the pilot up in the tree in the first episode and Mr.Eko.

  267. KatieB says:

    [quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).[/quote]
    Good point! Thanks for helping to clarify it for me. I would like to see that first encounter between Jacob and Smokey/MIB, though. I think it would help to explain a lot about Smokey’s origin and purpose.[/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]
    Easy there, Hammer. What I was trying to say (but didn’t do very well, apparently) is that I would like to see Jacob encountering his dead brother for the first time AFTER he knows he is dead. I never meant to imply that Smokey and MIB are different entities. I do believe Smokey=MIB, but I would like to see Jacob’s reaction to the realization that Smokey is now his dead brother. That is what I meant when I referred to the ‘origin’ of Smokey: taking on his dead brother’s body.

  268. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374383"]I found it interesting how BIB teaching Jacob to play the game was the same manner in which Locke taught Walt to play. The Others said they ran some sort of test on Walt, maybe similar to Sayid’s test, but Walt passed and was deemed special and allowed to leave. I bring this up only to ask what gets your name crossed off the list as a potential candidate? Kate is a huge part of the show yet for weeks now we’ve heard how her name was crossed out. Is it just me or does Claudia and fake mom seem very similar to Kate and Claire. Claire is real mom but Kate(fake mom) raised Aaron. Now this may be a little off the wall but here it goes anyway… We know that on the island BIB was not expected which is why Claudia only had one name which she picked before he was even born. What if in the sideways timeline, Claire has twins and she is only expecting Aaron, which she picked before he was born and Jacob is not expected? I think Kate’s name was crossed off when she was no longer raising Aaron.[/quote]

    The Kate question was asked in last weeks thread too. I’m also curious what the reason is for her name being crossed off. She killed more people off island than Sawyer did but on the island she has been better than Sawyer. In the beginning he was an awful person and most of the people hated him. If it is because of the Aaron connection I don’t get it. Claire abandoned Aaron and Kate stepped in to take care of him. Kate didn’t kill Claire and take her baby like the brother’s mom did.

    It may be a little off but I thought the same thing about the possibility of Claire having twins.

  269. RGS says:

    To me it just doesn’t make sense for MIB to actually be Smokey. I mean I completely understand Smokey taking MIB form but at the end of the day, they should not be one and the same. First you have the dead body of MIB (I really can’t get over that they didn’t give him a name…I mean really that is just silliness to me…even if his name is some character we’ve encounter, it is likely going to be a “so what” moment, with only 3.5 hrs left.)

    But intuitively, if they were the same person, then when he appears to Jacob, it should not be a difficult conversation for him to say, “look Jacob, let me show you what our ‘Mother’ did…it’s all a lie. We are humans, we, at the very least you can leave. I’ve entered the light, it is not what she thought. Again, she was not right, I wish you could talk to our real mother. There’s no way off the island, but for this wheel.”

    So now Jacob is bringing folks to the island, for what purpose, to prove MIB wrong, when MIB was the person who actually lived among the humans, grieved for the humans, was fascinated by humanity’s curiosity, and brilliance, ultimately embraces his humanity?

    I’m not even sure why MIB would automatically kill folks who show up e.g., the slave ship, the pilot of 815, really anyone.

    I do not think they had this solidly mapped out from the beginning. I think they had an idea, but then too much was thrown in, in the meantime of figuring out how long the show was going to run. As a result there are too many inconsistencies for this to be completely mapped out.

    I’m only hitting on the tip of the iceberg of issues, and I don’t expect any answer to the things I’ve presented.

    I won’t go so far as to say the show has wasted my time, but the way they built it up over the years makes for it to be impossible to live up to for a finale.

  270. Belle says:

    Oops, forgot about the ultrasound. Thanks Misslost.

    [quote comment="374374"]I was wondering if the Light is the spring where the temple was built. It seemed like they were protecting it…[/quote]

    Oops, forgot about the ultrasound. Thanks Misslost.

    I was also wondering if the Temple was built over the source of the light. The Others were guarding it to keep anyone from entering it. Smokey couldn’t enter the Temple but he lived under it. We saw Flocke take Ben there to be judged.

  271. Newbie says:

    [quote comment="374406"][quote comment="374397"][quote comment="374395"]Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?[/quote]

    My votes: No and No. (But that’s okay…)[/quote]
    No Way! The writers in the real world and through the show keep trying to say STOP LOOKING FOR ALL THE ANSWERS AND JUST ENJOY IT. Some viewers feel..well yeah I’d like more answers but it is about ASKING questions so lets just try to enjoy it. THIS IS SUCK A CROCK OF SHIT. Most mysteries genre shows are answered at the end of the hour…some do it per year…but imagine how an episode of house or any other show would feel if at the end nothing was figured out. It’s RIDICULOUS! Well on lost, from the first episode the questions were asked in a way that allowed us to trust they KNEW WHAT THE ANSWERS WERE. IT’S BY FAR THE BIGGEST REASON WE’VE HUNG IN THERE FOR SO LONG. That’s how they market it…The promos always say..”finally all the answers you’ve been waiting for. We trusted and now were even trying to make ourselves feel better about it. It reminds me of the x-files with “The truth is out there” but for a few reasons I won’t get into, that was not nearly as big a travesty. Turns out 95% of all the little details that wer shown in a very specific way to let us know it means something…MEANT NOTHING! NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO COVER THE BEST THEY CAN THAT WE’VE BEEN LIED TO FROM THE START!! SO MUCH OF OUR TIME HAS BEEN WASTED ONBULLSHIT!![/quote]

    This sounds a lot like we’re (the viewers)the Losties and the writers are Jacob. They’re asking us to trust them and stay tuned to the show, to have faith in them. But in the end we’ll feel like Ben and Richard who were told by Jacob to trust him but never got any answers, and in the end felt betrayed. This show is our island and we keep returning to it, but for what? That puts a whole new spin to reality TV! May be we’re the Dharma experiments!! Wouldn’t that be cool?!! I think it could create a whole new genre of TV entertainment!

  272. Matarua says:

    I think Smokey was created in that moment, and he was created dark because MIB was dark, from the get go, and that he was also in great deal of pain, that he was destructive, and hurt, that got amplified with the pool. Doesn’t mean he’s evil however as we saw last night. He’ll only let people live if they can help him get off the island.

    Now if Smokey can not get off the island, then all the dead people that appeared to Hurley are indeed ghosts, spirits and the like (unless he was crazy real, which would mean he still is, but they help in constructive ways so I think not). So, there’s ghosts, and spirits, and Smokey acting as Dead people. He shape changes to become a dead person, takes on their memories and is an alloy of the person with his own motives.

    Was this episode 2000 years ago? And was Richard like 200 years ago just a ballpark figures without getting specific. Question here, when Jacob offered MIB fish, when we first saw them together way back on the beach, would he need to eat it anyway? The amount of knowledge about the island they got means they’ve been there finding out about it for a very long time, to build everything they did also. The donkey wheel is MIB’s idea and that got done. And the pool is one area where the light was, maybe the pool in the temple, but the donkey wheel was in another location. Turning the donkey wheel indeed got you off the island, aka Ben, John… so why not MIB? Surely an easy way. But maybe Smokey can’t, he’s not real person. But he made it and tried it? Maybe in all that time he didn’t bother, seems weird. Did Dharma get the wheel going? I didn’t get that impression, I thought it was already to spin. Why doesn’t MIB go there now? Did the explosion stop Dharma unconvering it? The others uncovering it? Questions… more questions… :)

  273. Belle says:

    Did anyone else feel sad at the conclusion of last night’s episode when they started playing “The End” by the Doors?

    The game the boys were playing looked like Senet which may be the oldest board game in the world. In Egyptian it means “game of passing”. It has been found in Egyptian tombs and paintings as early as 3500BC. I’m not saying this is the time period shown in last night’s episode but it had to be very long ago. Claudia’s dress and hair style looked like she could have come from the Mediterranean area or somewhere in Europe where the Latin language had spread. Plus the clothes the 3 men killing the boar were wearing including leather arm protectors. Did mother have that game when she shipwrecked on the island or did she find it on the shore from another ship? Perhaps she stole it from the Egyptians that built the statue. :P

  274. Rebecca says:

    OK, i’ve got to say i didn’t really enjoyed this episode…. but i dont’s really blame D&C, i think they knew what they were doing from the beginning, but they do read the blogs and so they thought that maybe we would want to see an episode “explaining” the Backstory on MIB and Jacob and it just didn’t work….. at least not for me, i think they explained irrelevant things, for example, why shows us about MIB’s game and the rules if they’re not going to explain Jacob’s?and the light thing…. it seemed a littel forced…. all bright and shiny…. very un-lost like.

    there is something i don’t get in this episode…. Adam and eve are MIB and mother…. but how could that be? jack said the bodies had been there for about 50 years….. well, Jacob and MIB have been there for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more, they were there when richard got to the island, and even then, they had been there for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time…. are we going to see another time-travelling flash? or did D&C didn’t remember about the 50 years?

  275. freckles says:

    [quote comment="374276"]Smokey as FLocke could not be stabbed to death so I don’t think FMother was Smokey.[/quote]

    I think that FMother=smokey and she could only be killed by her replacement candidate (MIB) who then became smokey. Sayid couldn’t kill Flocke because he is not the true candidate. whoever is, can kill Flocke. And he will gladly say “thank you” to that person. He really doesn’t want off the island, just done being trapped.

  276. John says:

    This episode clearly got all of its roots from The Bible and other religions.

    Jacob’s presence on Lost is in relation to Jacob’s Ladder. i.e. the gateway to Heaven.

    The Island is a metaphoric LIMBO between heaven and hell. Jacob’s brother Esau, in scripture was first wronged by Jacob and wanted vengeance but eventually became a forgiving person — another metaphor about the opportunity the Losties have for transforming their past wrongs.

    Smokey is a smoke reference from the book of Exodus in the Bible that refers to what led the Israelites out of Egypt, and while ultimately FEARED throughout the series, will be what leads the Losties off the island — or those that wish to leave.

    There’s a reason the board game (Senet is the game, which was already pointed out in a previous comment) is 2,000 years old from Egyptian times. This is why the smoke reference from Exodus makes sense.

    There are also references to Buddhism and other religions throughout the series. This is for a reason…

    THE LOSTIES ARE DEAD AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.

    After many viewers early on hypothesized that they were in “limbo” the writers clearly did their best to DISGUISE and CONFUSE viewers to second guess that. They accomplished this with the TIME TRAVEL story line.

    Lost itself is a collection of references and ideologies from all religions. Even the “Dharma” Initiative gets its roots from Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and others. Dharma being the way to NIRVANA.

    Limbo as defined by Catholicism is: seen as the temporary state of those who, in spite of the personal sins they may have committed, died in the friendship of God, but could not enter Heaven until redemption by Jesus Christ made it possible.

    The Island is all about REDEMPTION, or the opportunity of it.

    The entire series is a metaphor about life… it doesn’t matter what you’ve done in your past, it’s about what you do in the future.

  277. andre gr says:

    [quote comment="374391"][quote comment="374390"][quote comment="374181"]

    I hope we find out who the kid in the forest is.
    [/quote]

    I am surprised nobody mentioned it. IT’S JACOB.[/quote]

    I beleive we have, over and over and over again.[/quote]

    You are right. I should have made it more clear. I meant until this episode (I replyed to comment 23).
    If somebody did mention it before, i am sorry i missed it. :(

  278. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374438"]OK, i’ve got to say i didn’t really enjoyed this episode…. but i dont’s really blame D&C, i think they knew what they were doing from the beginning, but they do read the blogs and so they thought that maybe we would want to see an episode “explaining” the Backstory on MIB and Jacob and it just didn’t work….. at least not for me, i think they explained irrelevant things, for example, why shows us about MIB’s game and the rules if they’re not going to explain Jacob’s?and the light thing…. it seemed a littel forced…. all bright and shiny…. very un-lost like.

    there is something i don’t get in this episode…. Adam and eve are MIB and mother…. but how could that be? jack said the bodies had been there for about 50 years….. well, Jacob and MIB have been there for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more, they were there when richard got to the island, and even then, they had been there for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time…. are we going to see another time-travelling flash? or did D&C didn’t remember about the 50 years?[/quote]

    Kate asked Jack how long the bodies had been there and he said something to the effect of “It takes at LEAST 40 or 50 years for clothes to decay this much.” He meant NO LESS THAN 50 years. He was right. We know it was hundreds or a thousand or so years. Being in the cave they were protected from the elements.

    BIB told Jacob that someday he could make up his own rules. Interestingly the original rules of the game of Senet aren’t known. No record of the rules has ever been found. Since it was so popular in Egypt the rules were just taught since just about everyone knew how to play. A few people have tried to reconstruct what they believe are the rules. Some squares on the gameboard have symbols on them. We saw this last night. One square is associated with WATER and has a negative meaning. Another square is called the “square of REBIRTH” and another has the ankh, a LIFE symbol. The pawns follow the path of the NUMBERS. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist)

  279. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374442"][quote comment="374438"]OK, i’ve got to say i didn’t really enjoyed this episode…. but i dont’s really blame D&C, i think they knew what they were doing from the beginning, but they do read the blogs and so they thought that maybe we would want to see an episode “explaining” the Backstory on MIB and Jacob and it just didn’t work….. at least not for me, i think they explained irrelevant things, for example, why shows us about MIB’s game and the rules if they’re not going to explain Jacob’s?and the light thing…. it seemed a littel forced…. all bright and shiny…. very un-lost like.

    there is something i don’t get in this episode…. Adam and eve are MIB and mother…. but how could that be? jack said the bodies had been there for about 50 years….. well, Jacob and MIB have been there for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more, they were there when richard got to the island, and even then, they had been there for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time…. are we going to see another time-travelling flash? or did D&C didn’t remember about the 50 years?[/quote]

    Kate asked Jack how long the bodies had been there and he said something to the effect of “It takes at LEAST 40 or 50 years for clothes to decay this much.” He meant NO LESS THAN 50 years. He was right. We know it was hundreds or a thousand or so years. Being in the cave they were protected from the elements.

    BIB told Jacob that someday he could make up his own rules. Interestingly the original rules of the game of Senet aren’t known. No record of the rules has ever been found. Since it was so popular in Egypt the rules were just taught since just about everyone knew how to play. A few people have tried to reconstruct what they believe are the rules. Some squares on the gameboard have symbols on them. We saw this last night. One square is associated with WATER and has a negative meaning. Another square is called the “square of REBIRTH” and another has the ankh, a LIFE symbol. The pawns follow the path of the NUMBERS. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist)[/quote]

    What about Jacob’s Bro’s comment about Jacob one day being able to make up the rules for his “own game.”

    -is “island time” Jacobs game?

    ps. pretty hard to beat someone at their own game, especially if they make up their own rules…

  280. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374430"][quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"][/quote][/quote][/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]
    Easy there, Hammer. What I was trying to say (but didn’t do very well, apparently) is that I would like to see Jacob encountering his dead brother for the first time AFTER he knows he is dead. I never meant to imply that Smokey and MIB are different entities. I do believe Smokey=MIB, but I would like to see Jacob’s reaction to the realization that Smokey is now his dead brother. That is what I meant when I referred to the ‘origin’ of Smokey: taking on his dead brother’s body.[/quote]
    Very well (still surprised that hogwash is equated to cursing, etc. here), but I was reacting to what was written as opposed to what was meant.

  281. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374427"]LostLove, Very Well Said!!

    Its freedom OF Religion, not Freedom From Religion.
    The Founding Fathers were smart enough to know that Government would corrupt Christianity.

    The Founding Fathers were smart enough to know that corruption could take place either way. And Freedom Of Religion necessarily includes Freedom From Religion. It’s not really free if you Have to follow a religion.

  282. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374429"][quote comment="374360"]Fake mom’s powers are different from smokie’s. Her victims were BURNED…smokies victims don’t look burned just tossed around and broken! Fake mom is NOT a smoke monster but a guardian with a flaming sword as taken from the bible..God places a charuib with a omnidirectional flaming sword as a guardian to the garden of eden!!!

    That is a good point[/quote]

    I saw victims that were charred and others were very bloody. Smokey’s victims have been thrashed around and very bloody. Just think of the pilot up in the tree in the first episode and Mr.Eko.[/quote]

    I watched it again yesterday. They looked more beat up than burned. The hole filling up is the proof that something not human caused the destruction.

  283. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374430"][quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"]Okay, I’m wondering about some timeline issues here. When we see Jacob and MIB talking on the beach, that is obviously after Jacob has placed him in the cave with crazy/fake mom and sees that he is dead. Why is Jacob not surprised to be talking to someone he knows is dead? Have we just not been shown that part of the story yet, or did I miss that part of the episode?[/quote]

    Perhaps because Jacob knows he’s not talking to his brother, but to Smokey (who is inhabiting his brother’s body, like he’s doing now with Locke’s body).[/quote]
    Good point! Thanks for helping to clarify it for me. I would like to see that first encounter between Jacob and Smokey/MIB, though. I think it would help to explain a lot about Smokey’s origin and purpose.[/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]
    Easy there, Hammer. What I was trying to say (but didn’t do very well, apparently) is that I would like to see Jacob encountering his dead brother for the first time AFTER he knows he is dead. I never meant to imply that Smokey and MIB are different entities. I do believe Smokey=MIB, but I would like to see Jacob’s reaction to the realization that Smokey is now his dead brother. That is what I meant when I referred to the ‘origin’ of Smokey: taking on his dead brother’s body.[/quote]

    I agree and believe that we will see that and then we will see Jacobs game start and he will spell out the rules. They might have Flock tell this but I really hope they act it out.

  284. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374447"][quote comment="374429"][quote comment="374360"]Fake mom’s powers are different from smokie’s. Her victims were BURNED…smokies victims don’t look burned just tossed around and broken! Fake mom is NOT a smoke monster but a guardian with a flaming sword as taken from the bible..God places a charuib with a omnidirectional flaming sword as a guardian to the garden of eden!!!

    That is a good point[/quote]

    I saw victims that were charred and others were very bloody. Smokey’s victims have been thrashed around and very bloody. Just think of the pilot up in the tree in the first episode and Mr.Eko.[/quote]

    I watched it again yesterday. They looked more beat up than burned. The hole filling up is the proof that something not human caused the destruction.[/quote]
    I watched that scene again also and also thought that looked beat up, not burned, like a smokie would do.

  285. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374437"]Did anyone else feel sad at the conclusion of last night’s episode when they started playing “The End” by the Doors?

    The game the boys were playing looked like Senet which may be the oldest board game in the world. In Egyptian it means “game of passing”. It has been found in Egyptian tombs and paintings as early as 3500BC. I’m not saying this is the time period shown in last night’s episode but it had to be very long ago. Claudia’s dress and hair style looked like she could have come from the Mediterranean area or somewhere in Europe where the Latin language had spread. Plus the clothes the 3 men killing the boar were wearing including leather arm protectors. Did mother have that game when she shipwrecked on the island or did she find it on the shore from another ship? Perhaps she stole it from the Egyptians that built the statue. :P[/quote]

    What statue? They never showed it and I bet it has not been built yet.

  286. justguessing says:

    Some people seem really upset about the direction in which the show is heading and I have to say… it’s a tv show! I for one am a huge fan and will be regardless of how the show ends. It seems as though most people are angry because the show doesn’t fit one of the 2,567,3542 theories that they’ve had over the years and to me that’s insane. From the moment you started watching the show you have been at the mercy of the writers. And like the characters on the show you had Free Will and you chose to watch for all of these years. What this show did was give you something to look forward to watching every week. In an era where everything is a reality show… this was a breath of fresh air. I used to watch Heroes and when it got corny I stopped. It’s as simple as that. I’m not upset, I dont feel like the show wasted my time… again it’s a tv show and you take it for what it is. The creators chose to end the show this season. They could have strung us along for another season… ABC sure wanted them to. But even in the 1st season the creators said they already knew how it was going to end and just because it doesnt end the way you want it to… does not make them liars. Just saying…

  287. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374444"]Good interview with D&C regarding this ep.:

    http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks for the link, can anyone answer what he is referring to when he mentions the outrigger shootout?

    Okay, finally, I have to ask, simply because it’s been driving me nuts for a year and a half: what’s going on with showing the other half of the outrigger shootout?

  288. Guttahman says:

    Heres my take on everything…..

    I think smokey has been on the island long before Jacob and Co. got there, and the job of Jacob, his mother, the candidate, etc. is to protect it…Not from anyone trying to hurt the smoke but from people trying to exploit it…we’ve seen the power that thing has, if someone were able to control it off the island then the world would be in alot of trouble.

    I do believe Jacobs brother is dead, Jacob killed him and the smoke is just taking his form because thats who Jacob knows, just like he is taking the form of Locke because he knew Locke was the only one that was able to get close to Jacob, and I think in taking these peoples forms the smoke also has access to their memories and thoughts.

    As far as the mother being a type of smokey….Im not buying it…I dont think its too far fetched to believe that woman was capable of carrying her son out of that well…they prolly have some sort of system to get their tools and supplies down there and back up so she may have used a rope and pulley or something…as far as the village is concerned…she may have had the ability to summon smokey just like Ben did after Keamy killed Alex.

    However, I do believe she planned everything from the time she delivered the twins to the time she was stabbed in the back….I think she sincerely wanted to keep MIB on the island and that was the reason she asked smokey to fill the well but I think the killing of the villagers was solely to get MIB to kill her because she knew Jacob would not….She told Jacob that he was her replacement and one day he would have to find a replacement for him…if these people have eternal life why would one need a replacement?? I think they all conjure a scheme to be murdered because being the protector of the island is a tedious and lonely job that one can only do sanely for a few hundred years or so

    Another thing I have been pondering and have not seen much mention of it is Richard and Jacobs convo on the beach….When Jacob and Mom had their convo outside the cave of light she poured a cup of wine and said some sort of ritual, then said You and I are the same now….I think it might be possible that Jacob appointed Richard as guardian of the island without Richard even knowing it, and that was the significance of Jacob giving the wine to smokey…so this whole time Richard may have been the new “Jacob”.

  289. mikemarks says:

    so now we’re all afraid we’re going to be let down, betrayed, like THEY have been disappointing us all our lives… but I don’t think it’s because the ending may not measure up to our personal theories… I think its because after our years of investment watching we want something more than a bad ending, or a great ending, or a happy ending… and we’re not confident any writer, or human, can deliver what we want which is… a scientifically based (which nowadays seems to belong to quantum theory), and thereby believable, explanation for spirituality or cosmic experience, what the universe and reality is all about…. we want to take away more than an entertaining experience, we want to take away a philosophy we can apply in our real lives… and suddenly, with this weeks episode, we feel instead they are just going to leave us with another fairytale, like most religions, a bullshit metaphor to explain the thunder… hopefully the writers will be able to twist this particular fairytale into something believable, like perhaps they’re are many imaginative scenarios in the Mind of the Universe to foundation the nature and behavior of life and humans upon, the JacobMIB scenario being just one, the fairytales of other religions being others, the primal simplistic beginnings of creation made manifest that freewillers can develope into further complex creations

  290. Jason says:

    [quote comment="374445"][quote comment="374430"][quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"][/quote][/quote][/quote]
    Hogwash..IMO there is NO WAY there is a new antagonist this late in the game…smokey=MIB.[/quote]
    Easy there, Hammer. What I was trying to say (but didn’t do very well, apparently) is that I would like to see Jacob encountering his dead brother for the first time AFTER he knows he is dead. I never meant to imply that Smokey and MIB are different entities. I do believe Smokey=MIB, but I would like to see Jacob’s reaction to the realization that Smokey is now his dead brother. That is what I meant when I referred to the ‘origin’ of Smokey: taking on his dead brother’s body.[/quote]
    Very well (still surprised that hogwash is equated to cursing, etc. here), but I was reacting to what was written as opposed to what was meant.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I don’t think people think it is cursing, maybe they felt it was a little condesending (i have no idea if i spelled that correctly)…Some might have felt it to be a little arrogant and/or conceited.

  291. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374455"][quote comment="374445"][quote comment="374430"][quote comment="374253"][quote comment="374251"][quote comment="374249"][quote comment="374247"][/quote][/quote][/quote]
    [/quote]
    Very well (still surprised that hogwash is equated to cursing, etc. here), but I was reacting to what was written as opposed to what was meant.[/quote]
    ___________________________________
    I don’t think people think it is cursing, maybe they felt it was a little condesending (i have no idea if i spelled that correctly)…Some might have felt it to be a little arrogant and/or conceited.[/quote]

  292. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374456"]
    ___________________________________
    I don’t think people think it is cursing, maybe they felt it was a little condesending (i have no idea if i spelled that correctly)…Some might have felt it to be a little arrogant and/or conceited.[/quote]
    Messed that up…

    Hmmmm, after six seasons on this blog I’ve been told that a few times…must be.

  293. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374452"][quote comment="374444"]Good interview with D&C regarding this ep.:

    http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks for the link, can anyone answer what he is referring to when he mentions the outrigger shootout?

    Okay, finally, I have to ask, simply because it’s been driving me nuts for a year and a half: what’s going on with showing the other half of the outrigger shootout?[/quote]
    Back when the Losties were skipping in time, Sawyer et al) were traveling from island to island in an outrigger and someone was following them in another outrigger shooting at them. We never saw who that was.

  294. Pterradon says:

    After this last episode, I was thinking that it was not a good episode. But then my son came over and we talked for a long time about it. I realized that that is what this show is all about to me. New mysteries, not getting all the answers, the ambiguity of events, reading so many opinions whether they are AHA comments or hogwash. This last episode provided all of that. I’m convinced now that this was a great episode. I don’t want all the answers neatly gift wrapped. I like the adventure and can’t wait to see what the last 3 1/2 hours brings.

  295. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374459"]After this last episode, I was thinking that it was not a good episode. But then my son came over and we talked for a long time about it. I realized that that is what this show is all about to me. New mysteries, not getting all the answers, the ambiguity of events, reading so many opinions whether they are AHA comments or hogwash. This last episode provided all of that. I’m convinced now that this was a great episode. I don’t want all the answers neatly gift wrapped. I like the adventure and can’t wait to see what the last 3 1/2 hours brings.[/quote]

    Agreed.

    I’ve been preaching this for some time. Here once in awhile, but mostly to friends and family that call me about LOST. I love that we get to interpret on our own most of the events.

    I too can’t wait to see what the ‘leave out’ for us to take on our own.

  296. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374458"][quote comment="374452"][quote comment="374444"]Good interview with D&C regarding this ep.:

    http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks for the link, can anyone answer what he is referring to when he mentions the outrigger shootout?

    Okay, finally, I have to ask, simply because it’s been driving me nuts for a year and a half: what’s going on with showing the other half of the outrigger shootout?[/quote]
    Back when the Losties were skipping in time, Sawyer et al) were traveling from island to island in an outrigger and someone was following them in another outrigger shooting at them. We never saw who that was.[/quote]
    I remember that, thanks Hammer

  297. Jason says:

    [quote comment="374457"][quote comment="374456"]
    ___________________________________
    I don’t think people think it is cursing, maybe they felt it was a little condesending (i have no idea if i spelled that correctly)…Some might have felt it to be a little arrogant and/or conceited.[/quote]
    Messed that up…

    Hmmmm, after six seasons on this blog I’ve been told that a few times…must be.[/quote]
    ________________________________________
    Could be….would it have offended me?? no….I’m guessing it might offend some people though.

  298. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374460"][quote comment="374459"]After this last episode, I was thinking that it was not a good episode. But then my son came over and we talked for a long time about it. I realized that that is what this show is all about to me. New mysteries, not getting all the answers, the ambiguity of events, reading so many opinions whether they are AHA comments or hogwash. This last episode provided all of that. I’m convinced now that this was a great episode. I don’t want all the answers neatly gift wrapped. I like the adventure and can’t wait to see what the last 3 1/2 hours brings.[/quote]

    Agreed.

    I’ve been preaching this for some time.

    Here once in awhile, but mostly to friends and family that call me about LOST. I love that we get to interpret on our own most of the events.

    I too can’t wait to see what the ‘leave out’ for us to take on our own.[/quote]

    If a month from now someone asks me “So what was the deal with the smoke monster, that Jacob guy and the alternate time line with those people?” and I am able to answer them, I will be satisfied.

  299. WTF says:

    [quote comment="374256"]Way lost…just to be accurate…she said they couldn’t hurt each other…not that they could never die.[/quote]

    But they can hurt each other…Jacob was beating up MIB, he punched him in the face multiple times. I think they just can’t kill each other. MIB manipulated Ben into killing Jacob because he couldn’t do it himself. And he needed Jacob dead in order to leave. Obviously there are some other requirements before he can leave as well, but those aren’t exactly clear yet.
    P.S. Evangeline Lily was on Jimmy Fallon and said that some people do get off the island…no idea who but I think the finale is going to be intense and everything is going to come together at once.

  300. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="374457"][quote comment="374456"]
    ___________________________________
    I don’t think people think it is cursing, maybe they felt it was a little condesending (i have no idea if i spelled that correctly)…Some might have felt it to be a little arrogant and/or conceited.[/quote]
    Messed that up…

    Hmmmm, after six seasons on this blog I’ve been told that a few times…must be.[/quote]
    ************
    Well I guess I must be arrogant too then, because I felt the same way! Sometimes I think we OVER read things into what we are seeing. I didn’t think you were being conceited, but sometimes we just feel strongly about not agreeing with what was said.

  301. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="374461"][quote comment="374458"][quote comment="374452"][quote comment="374444"]Good interview with D&C regarding this ep.:

    http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks for the link, can anyone answer what he is referring to when he mentions the outrigger shootout?

    Okay, finally, I have to ask, simply because it’s been driving me nuts for a year and a half: what’s going on with showing the other half of the outrigger shootout?[/quote]
    Back when the Losties were skipping in time, Sawyer et al) were traveling from island to island in an outrigger and someone was following them in another outrigger shooting at them. We never saw who that was.[/quote]
    I remember that, thanks Hammer[/quote]
    ***********
    I thought it was Ilana and her group from the Ajira crash…but it must not have been? Didn’t they take an outrigger? And then didn’t it coincide with Sawyer et al finding the ajira water bottle?

  302. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374464"][quote comment="374256"]Way lost…just to be accurate…she said they couldn’t hurt each other…not that they could never die.[/quote]

    But they can hurt each other…Jacob was beating up MIB, he punched him in the face multiple times. I think they just can’t kill each other. MIB manipulated Ben into killing Jacob because he couldn’t do it himself. And he needed Jacob dead in order to leave. Obviously there are some other requirements before he can leave as well, but those aren’t exactly clear yet.
    [/quote]

    I followed up with this post at 141:

    “I mispoke in 139…can’t die should have been can’t hurt each other (which I interpret through the culmination of this season as they can’t KILL each other but can inflict physical pain and CAN be killed by someone other than each other).”

  303. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374466"][quote comment="374461"][quote comment="374458"][quote comment="374452"][quote comment="374444"][/quote]

    [/quote]
    Back when the Losties were skipping in time, Sawyer et al) were traveling from island to island in an outrigger and someone was following them in another outrigger shooting at them. We never saw who that was.[/quote]
    I remember that, thanks Hammer[/quote]
    ***********
    I thought it was Ilana and her group from the Ajira crash…but it must not have been? Didn’t they take an outrigger? And then didn’t it coincide with Sawyer et al finding the ajira water bottle?[/quote]
    Me too, but they never confirmed “when” that happened and who did the shooting…one of those things YOU get to use however you feel best. :)

  304. Aggie Mo says:

    [quote comment="374454"]so now we’re all afraid we’re going to be let down, betrayed, like THEY have been disappointing us all our lives… but I don’t think it’s because the ending may not measure up to our personal theories… I think its because after our years of investment watching we want something more than a bad ending, or a great ending, or a happy ending… and we’re not confident any writer, or human, can deliver what we want which is… a scientifically based (which nowadays seems to belong to quantum theory), and thereby believable, explanation for spirituality or cosmic experience, what the universe and reality is all about…. we want to take away more than an entertaining experience, we want to take away a philosophy we can apply in our real lives… and suddenly, with this weeks episode, we feel instead they are just going to leave us with another fairytale, like most religions, a bullshit metaphor to explain the thunder… hopefully the writers will be able to twist this particular fairytale into something believable, like perhaps they’re are many imaginative scenarios in the Mind of the Universe to foundation the nature and behavior of life and humans upon, the JacobMIB scenario being just one, the fairytales of other religions being others, the primal simplistic beginnings of creation made manifest that freewillers can develope into further complex creations[/quote]

    Why does there have to be a final scientific explanation for the phenomena of the show?

    Also, is a TV show the best place to look to find a philosophy to live by?

    To me a good story, be it a book or TV show, is entertaining, with character development, an interesting plot, and hopefully develops some thematic issues that are connected to real life. I think Lost has all of that, and a neat, clean scientific explanation for everything is not necessary in my opinion for it to be a good story.

  305. WTF says:

    [quote comment="374285"]It’s amazing how we all perceive things differently. Fake mom didn’t try to kill MIB otherwise he would have been as dead as “his people”. She knocked him out to stop him and then went on her rampage. I believe she did love him in her own way. Out of rage MIB stabbed her to death with what I assume was that special knife. She thanked him since she couldn’t kill herself and she did say she was tired. Tired of being the protector. (I believe that’s why Jacob didn’t fight back when Ben was about to kill him. He was tired after a few hundred years.) Jacob in a fit of rage after seeing that his brother had killed their “mom” proceeded to the light source and threw MIB in the water. In his state of anger I doubt Jacob remembered the mother’s dire warning otherwise he wouldn’t have done it. Obviously Jacob or his brother had any idea what was going to happen. The mother told Jacob to promise to never go in there because it was a fate worse than death. We don’t know if she ever told MIB the same thing. Again I blame mommy dearest for not explaining EVERYTHING. She did them both wrong big time. MIB said Jacob stole his body. That was what happened when he went down the hole. He was separated from his earthly body and now he is a pillar of black smoke. As we’ve seen, he can appear as the likeness of someone that is dead. He appeared as himself when the characters were first introduced so we would know who they were and what they looked like. Now that Jacob is dead he can only appears as Locke.

    I loved the revelation of Adam and Eve’s identities. No one would have guessed it in a million years. Locke assumed they were lovers and perhaps “Adam and Eve” of the island but he was totally wrong.[/quote]

    That’s a really good point about the knife, I never even noticed that. It was the same knife that was given to Sayid to kill “Locke” and Sayid was told to not let him speak. MIB just walked up behind Crazy Mom and stabbed her. So the Smoke is it’s own entity yes, but it can inhabit whatever body it chooses. It became MIB and then Locke so Jacob could be killed by Ben. Just because he said “I was a man once with feelings” doesn’t mean that man was MIB, it could have some other man 3000 years ago for all we know.

  306. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]It’s amazing how we all perceive things differently. [/quote]

    That’s a really good point about the knife, I never even noticed that. It was the same knife that was given to Sayid to kill “Locke” and Sayid was told to not let him speak. MIB just walked up behind Crazy Mom and stabbed her. So the Smoke is it’s own entity yes, but it can inhabit whatever body it chooses. It became MIB and then Locke so Jacob could be killed by Ben. Just because he said “I was a man once with feelings” doesn’t mean that man was MIB, it could have some other man 3000 years ago for all we know.[/quote]
    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?

  307. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="374471"][quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]It’s amazing how we all perceive things differently. [/quote]

    That’s a really good point about the knife, I never even noticed that. It was the same knife that was given to Sayid to kill “Locke” and Sayid was told to not let him speak. MIB just walked up behind Crazy Mom and stabbed her. So the Smoke is it’s own entity yes, but it can inhabit whatever body it chooses. It became MIB and then Locke so Jacob could be killed by Ben. Just because he said “I was a man once with feelings” doesn’t mean that man was MIB, it could have some other man 3000 years ago for all we know.[/quote]
    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?[/quote]

    I’m not sure that would happen. I think if Flocke were stabbed, the body would disapear, go poof, or something like it. Which is why I don’t think mom was smokie. She might have been able to call smokie forth, but was not smokie herself.

  308. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374472"][quote comment="374471"][quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"][/quote]

    That’s a really good point about the knife, I never even noticed that. It was the same knife that was given to Sayid to kill “Locke” and Sayid was told to not let him speak. MIB just walked up behind Crazy Mom and stabbed her. So the Smoke is it’s own entity yes, but it can inhabit whatever body it chooses. It became MIB and then Locke so Jacob could be killed by Ben. Just because he said “I was a man once with feelings” doesn’t mean that man was MIB, it could have some other man 3000 years ago for all we know.[/quote]
    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?[/quote]

    I’m not sure that would happen. I think if Flocke were stabbed, the body would disapear, go poof, or something like it. Which is why I don’t think mom was smokie. She might have been able to call smokie forth, but was not smokie herself.[/quote] ;)

  309. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]

    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?[/quote]

    I’m not sure that would happen. I think if Flocke were stabbed, the body would disapear, go poof, or something like it. Which is why I don’t think mom was smokie. She might have been able to call smokie forth, but was not smokie herself.[/quote]

    I’ve read a few times where MIB stabbed his mom before she talked. Was this necessary? MIB had talked to her many times before that. If she had turned around and said “hi”, would he just walk away for a few minutes and try it again? Dogan said it and Flocke said it, but it wasn’t necessary to kill Jacob and he was just like her.

  310. Miraks says:

    Maybe Jacob and MIB were/ are like Castor and Pollux from greek mythology. One mortal and one immortal, twins born of the same mother (but not having the same father?). Patrons of sailors, appearing as St. Elmo’s fire. One representing life (Olympus) and the other death (Hades), but eventually sharing immortality.

  311. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374474"][quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]

    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?[/quote]

    I’m not sure that would happen. I think if Flocke were stabbed, the body would disapear, go poof, or something like it. Which is why I don’t think mom was smokie. She might have been able to call smokie forth, but was not smokie herself.[/quote]

    I’ve read a few times where MIB stabbed his mom before she talked. Was this necessary? MIB had talked to her many times before that. If she had turned around and said “hi”, would he just walk away for a few minutes and try it again? Dogan said it and Flocke said it, but it wasn’t necessary to kill Jacob and he was just like her.[/quote] ;)

  312. Belle says:

    Check out this clip from The Jimmy Kimmel show the other night. It’s hilarious.

  313. G455 says:

    What if since Jacob has been able to time travel.. Maybe he has traveled into the future and knows what is going to happen and is just letting it all play out?

  314. Belle says:

    BTW, the clip is called Jacob and Man In Black: LOST GAME

  315. justguessing says:

    Fake mom passed the torch to Jacob w/ wine and some sort of prayer. Since Jacob is dead how will he pass the torch? The only person we’ve seen Jacob give wine to is Richard. Ilana said that Jacob said if anything should happen to him that Richard would know what to do. But if Richard is the replacement then why does FLocke still need all of the candidates to die? Maybe his ashes will play an important role in the new protector ceremony.

  316. Mateo says:

    At first we thought the Others had all the answers, especially Ben, then found out he knew little… then we thought Richard had all the answers, again, he knew little, Illana, and so on,… now we find out that Jacob and his brother werent even from the beginning and probably dont have all the answers…

  317. Mateo says:

    Speaking of knives, is the knife MIB stabbed his mother with the same knife that Locke chooses as a child when Richard asks him “which item is yours?” just curious… If so the kid Locke might be a reincarnation of MIB?

  318. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374474"][quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]

    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?[/quote]

    I’m not sure that would happen. I think if Flocke were stabbed, the body would disapear, go poof, or something like it. Which is why I don’t think mom was smokie. She might have been able to call smokie forth, but was not smokie herself.[/quote]

    I’ve read a few times where MIB stabbed his mom before she talked. Was this necessary? MIB had talked to her many times before that. If she had turned around and said “hi”, would he just walk away for a few minutes and try it again? Dogan said it and Flocke said it, but it wasn’t necessary to kill Jacob and he was just like her.[/quote]

    Agreed. The only reason some are guessing that the fake mom was inhabited by Smokie was that the well was filled in. But lets look at the death of fake mom, Jacob and what was told to Sayid and Richard. Fake Mom was human, but since she was the protector of the island, she has certain powers, one of which could easily have been to move a big pile of dirt. She died by the knife of someone who could have been a candidate himself at that time and who had spoken to her before. So the not speaking before you kill her does not apply.
    Jacob, also was human, had many powers available to him (such as giving Richard eternal life). He died by the knife even after being talked to. Why? Because he was human!
    When the Bro of Jacob was sent into the light, his human body died and his Spirit became the Smoke and worse than death, he is trapped in a place he doesnt want to be (ie worse than death)

    Now to kill him, (see also to kill fLocke) one who has never spoken to this entity before (rememeber not the body, but the Smoke filled likeness) needs to thrust the knife before spoken to. This will end the Smoke’s life. (yes, maybe in a puff of smoke).

    Of course, this could be wrong too and in the last 5 minutes we see Bob Newhart waking up and saying, “Wow, what a dream I just had!”

  319. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374482"]Speaking of knives, is the knife MIB stabbed his mother with the same knife that Locke chooses as a child when Richard asks him “which item is yours?” just curious… If so the kid Locke might be a reincarnation of MIB?[/quote]

    Now that would be interesting if it was a small version of the same type of knife.

  320. Belle says:

    Some things have been answered scientifically such as the electromagnetism, the polar bears etc. This is a science fiction show and a drama. We have journeyed with our LOSTIES and watched them grow for the better and redeem themselves while others didn’t because of their bad choices. I’m not talking about the mistakes they made with good intentions but blatant wrong or evil decisions. (Ben, Widmore, the Others…) There’s been many life lessons throughout the show including how people deal in times of crisis and the necessity of working together. The themes of forgiveness, unselfishness, self-sacrifice, faith, science, destiny or fate and choices have run throughout the show. On the other hand there’s no explaining the smoke monster, the ability of the island to be moved, time travel using the Donkey Wheel, living hundreds or thousands of years, the power the Protectors have for bringing people to the island and the list goes on. If the show had been like Castaway (which was a great movie) it would’ve grown boring after 6 seasons. The mysteries are what spiced it up. We will never know all the mysteries of the universe so I don’t expect it with LOST either. Some things are going to be left to our imagination. I think if all the mysteries were explained in a logical manner we would probably feel it was lame. IMO

  321. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374471"][quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]It’s amazing how we all perceive things differently. [/quote]

    That’s a really good point about the knife, I never even noticed that. It was the same knife that was given to Sayid to kill “Locke” and Sayid was told to not let him speak. MIB just walked up behind Crazy Mom and stabbed her. So the Smoke is it’s own entity yes, but it can inhabit whatever body it chooses. It became MIB and then Locke so Jacob could be killed by Ben. Just because he said “I was a man once with feelings” doesn’t mean that man was MIB, it could have some other man 3000 years ago for all we know.[/quote]
    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?[/quote]

    would it help (in trying to explain SMOKIE) to think of him as that villain VENOM in spiderman? VENOM is technically a parasite/suit that takes over a host. it is tied up to the host while it is “using” it but can switch to another host if need be.

    SMOKIE in a similar fashion has done this with Jacobs bro. and Locke.

  322. Ja'fa says:

    Spoilerish thought.

    The Smoke Monster is returned to the ‘golden water trap’ in the finale. Widmore, Zoe and Desmond are the trio that puts the genie back in the bottle using the electro-magnetic stuff they are working on. Everyone off-island in the sideways timeline corrects the faulty courses in their lives. Everyone on the two islands in the current timeline leave, and the island sinks because it has no purpose now that the bad is trapped, and the potential for bad has left it. Cut to Soprano Family in pizza parlor… cut to black.

  323. Matarua says:

    [quote comment="374440"]The Island is a metaphoric LIMBO between heaven and hell….[/quote]

    I think that the island behaves as such, but is not, so agreed, it is metaphoric, but with worldly connections, they are not dead, far from it… they left the island remember? Before any time travel. Getting back to the island later was when they time travelled. To be in Limbo you’re dead, and as I have said they may all die before the show ends. But what point in a limbo that saved everyone in the FSW? Seems counter intuitive to me.

    John you have made some excellent observations and revelations, excuse the pun, great! I just don’t think they are dead. The Oceanic 6 storyline defies that for me…

  324. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374405"][quote comment="374395"]Can I take a poll out there and ask who here believes the writers had this story, and I mean the WHOLE story, mapped out at the start and not at all influenced by blogs such as this over time? And, will the show’s creators ever come clean on the fact?[/quote]
    I believe they have already come clean several times that the writing had to be fluid and parts of the story have changed, but the basic story was there. Ideas were let to flourish during the writing of episodes.

    Check out questions 5 and 6 in this interview:

    http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/05/lost_showrunners_damon_lindelo.html%5B/quote%5D

    Thanks for the link Hammer. I especially liked the story about the plane, people recognizing them and not being too happy that they are on the same flight. It’s a TV show! Very funny.

    I agree with what they said. They pitched the concept to ABC and didn’t know if it would be a success. After it was a hit they took it from there. They had to have had a bare bones outline and filled in the gaps and expounded on their ideas. Darlton takes a lot of flack for being vague or saying things such as “it’s not Purgatory or there’s no time travel”. I don’t have a problem with that. Why would they want to show us their cards? Would that make it exciting? NO. The element of surprise is better even if you thought it might go that way.

    Every season finale has been riveting so I expect the Grand Finale to be the same. Might it have some depressing moments? Probably. That’s life and we don’t always get what we want. To quote Forrest Gump, “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.” I would prefer A Happily Ever After ending but I think it’ll be a mixed bag.

  325. La Vie says:

    OH SNAP!!!

    from that same site:

    Here’s Lindelof on whether Lost’s ending will reveal enough to meet our expectations:

    “[Fans] say, ‘I wanted to see the statue built,’ or ‘I wanted the Man in Black’s first name,’ or ‘I want to know about the guy Sayid shot on the golf course.’ Okay, that’s cool, you wanted those answers and we decided not to provide them to you. It’s not because we’re being cutesie, it’s because that that didn’t fit with our vision of the show. Right or wrong, we’re going to have to deal the rest of our lives with questions about how Lost ended. We’re comfortable with that, and at the end of the day, we have to remind people that we chose to end the show. We did not go on for a couple of more seasons and sort of pad it off to oblivion. And we knew when we chose to end the show, that we were going to have to take our lumps.”

    in essence its a in yo’ face hattahs and a you go girlfriend [swaying right hand]!

  326. Man in Blue says:

    [quote comment="374347"]I don’t necessarily think MIB is Smokey, but that Smokey subsumed MIB’s consciousness the way it did Locke’s.

    I also consider that BIB (boy in Black) didn’t see his mother, but rather Smokey as his mother.

    Smokey took Locke’s form only to get in to Jacob’s “room” in the foot of the statue. Remember, no one can go in who isn’t invited. Who more likely to be invited than the leading Candidate? And as Locke, he could manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. He can’t hurt Jacob himself (them’s the rules). But there is a loophole – he can convince someone else to kill Jacob.

    Smokey is using the same method on the candidates: he can’t kill them, but he can get them to kill each other, or Widmore to kill them.[/quote]
    Yes, but, Jacob was talking to Ben when Ben killed him which is inconsistent with the other “no talking, stab away” rules.

  327. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374482"]Speaking of knives, is the knife MIB stabbed his mother with the same knife that Locke chooses as a child when Richard asks him “which item is yours?” just curious… If so the kid Locke might be a reincarnation of MIB?[/quote]

    That’s an interesting question. I thought it was a pocketknife of sorts. Wouldn’t John’s foster mom have freaked out if she saw some stranger showing a big dagger to John? I will definitely have to go back and look.

    [quote comment="374362"]long time reader first time posting, while watching this episode and the whole buisness of the golden light i remember back to episode 5 of season 3 “the cost of living”, when echo is drinking from the stream and turns around to see the smoke monster.Right after that locke and company come out of the jungle, later when locke asks echo what he saw he(locke) says something along the lines of ” i saw it to u know it was a bright light it was beautifull” then echo says that is not what i saw. just thought it was interesting considering the smoke came out of the light.[/quote]

    I recently watched that episode too. At the time I thought it was great timing for Locke to come along. Now it seems that we were being slapped in the face with the relationship between John and Smokey. I’ve said this before, after John’s first encounter with the Smoke Monster he began to change. The “island” began telling him things, he started being deceptive, he set Sawyer up to be tortured by Sayid, became The Great White Hunter and was knowledgeable in way too many things. The second time when he was being dragged into the hole and Jack and Kate were holding onto him, he said it wasn’t going to hurt him it was just a test. I’m sure you’ve noticed how Locke would one minute be confident and brave and the next he’d be doubtful and afraid. We can only go by what we’ve been shown but there could be more to the story.

  328. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374491"][quote comment="374347"]I don’t necessarily think MIB is Smokey, but that Smokey subsumed MIB’s consciousness the way it did Locke’s.

    I also consider that BIB (boy in Black) didn’t see his mother, but rather Smokey as his mother.

    Smokey took Locke’s form only to get in to Jacob’s “room” in the foot of the statue. Remember, no one can go in who isn’t invited. Who more likely to be invited than the leading Candidate? And as Locke, he could manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. He can’t hurt Jacob himself (them’s the rules). But there is a loophole – he can convince someone else to kill Jacob.

    Smokey is using the same method on the candidates: he can’t kill them, but he can get them to kill each other, or Widmore to kill them.[/quote]

    Yes, but, Jacob was talking to Ben when Ben killed him which is inconsistent with the other “no talking, stab away” rules.[/quote]

    Excellent catch Man in Blue. So maybe the no talking rule immediately before you kill only applies to Smokey.

  329. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374447"][quote comment="374429"][quote comment="374360"]Fake mom’s powers are different from smokie’s. Her victims were BURNED…smokies victims don’t look burned just tossed around and broken! Fake mom is NOT a smoke monster but a guardian with a flaming sword as taken from the bible..God places a charuib with a omnidirectional flaming sword as a guardian to the garden of eden!!!

    That is a good point[/quote]

    I saw victims that were charred and others were very bloody. Smokey’s victims have been thrashed around and very bloody. Just think of the pilot up in the tree in the first episode and Mr.Eko.[/quote]

    I watched it again yesterday. They looked more beat up than burned. The hole filling up is the proof that something not human caused the destruction.[/quote]

    I agree that they were bloody more than anything. I saw a man whose arm looked black which I assume was charred from escaping his burning hut.

  330. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374467"][quote comment="374464"][quote comment="374256"]Way lost…just to be accurate…she said they couldn’t hurt each other…not that they could never die.[/quote]

    But they can hurt each other…Jacob was beating up MIB, he punched him in the face multiple times. I think they just can’t kill each other. MIB manipulated Ben into killing Jacob because he couldn’t do it himself. And he needed Jacob dead in order to leave. Obviously there are some other requirements before he can leave as well, but those aren’t exactly clear yet.
    [/quote]

    I followed up with this post at 141:

    “I mispoke in 139…can’t die should have been can’t hurt each other (which I interpret through the culmination of this season as they can’t KILL each other but can inflict physical pain and CAN be killed by someone other than each other).”[/quote]
    Okay…and we know that MIB can’t kill certain other people as well. I guess as part of Jacob’s rules we haven’t gotten the full story on yet. Question…why does flocke have Sayid go to the well to kill Des? If the rules don’t apply to Des doesn’t that mean he is free game. Why can’t MIB kill Des? Also, does anyone think Des went into the light like Jacob’s brother did (MIB)? Way back when Des turned the key?

  331. Belle says:

    I think we all agree the devastation at the site of the Donkey Wheel was the work of Smokey. After reading everyone’s theories on Mother, I think she was THE Smoke Monster, A Smoke Monster or could summon Smokey. Any of them are plausible. I’m still stuck on her vivid description of the light source though. So she either did go in or knew someone that did and they described it in detail to her. IDK

    Bobola- I noticed how pregnant Claudia still looked after giving birth, you couldn’t miss it. I remember saying her belly should have gone down significantly. Mother didn’t notice because she was too busy rejoicing over the birth of her replacement. Even before we knew what her intentions were for poor Claudia, she had a strange look on her face that was more than just admiring the cute little baby she just helped deliver. She was definitely surprised by the second baby but probably thought she got more than she bargained for.

  332. way_lost says:

    I think that’s how Des got his premonition power. I also think that Widmore’s experiment was supposed to simulate “the light”. I think…

  333. Belle says:

    We may still get MIB’s name in the final episode. It may be significant and that’s why they’ve withheld it.

    Others have made remarks about Kate’s name being crossed off. I’m starting to wonder if the theories are right. Is Kate’s name crossed off because she’s no longer a Candidate or is it a red herring? Mother wasn’t ready to die until she passed the burden onto Jacob. Wouldn’t that be necessary? The situation is different because of MIB finding his loophole but Jacob must have already passed the torch and we don’t know who it is yet. Seems possible to me. Or that’s a dumb idea. :P

  334. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374497"]I think that’s how Des got his premonition power. I also think that Widmore’s experiment was supposed to simulate “the light”. I think…[/quote]

    That’s a very interesting theory and since the rules don’t apply to Desmond he didn’t get “Smoked”. I like it.

  335. mikemarks says:

    as I said, I hope Dez having gone into the light doesn’t manifest smokey powers and have a major monster duel to the death at the end… its reminding me of Stephen King, who admits to not plotting to the end when he writes a story, beginning with intriguing concepts and leading to dopey endings…

  336. Lostcols says:

    Since Jacob and MIB don’t know the real purpose of the island, then there is no way Widmore does. So, the thought that if Flocke gets off the island that the world will be worse isn’t necessarily true and I don’t think is true.
    Based on the FSW, it’s better. The question is what will make their new life better? Killing smokie who has taken over the body of Locke or smokie getting off the island.

  337. Mr. $tuart says:

    I’ve seen where supposedly this episode begins in 43 AD. Was this ever in the episode?

  338. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374502"]I’ve seen where supposedly this episode begins in 43 AD. Was this ever in the episode?[/quote]

    No it wasn’t but it’s at least a few thousand years ago give or take.

  339. Boobola says:

    Best scene?

    RTDW — Room Temperature Donkey Wheel.

  340. Belle says:

    I already believe this so this further supports why I think it’s true. Mother made it so Jacob and his brother can’t kill (hurt) each other so Jacob didn’t kill his brother. He is alive but in smoke form and only his body is dead.

  341. betsy says:

    Dr. Goodspeed did an ultrasound on Claire that showed only one baby.

  342. Matarua says:

    Loving reading this, there’s some seriously good theory going on here, if the show dissapoints some of you, then surely this blog is filling the gap! <3

  343. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374501"]Since Jacob and MIB don’t know the real purpose of the island, then there is no way Widmore does. So, the thought that if Flocke gets off the island that the world will be worse isn’t necessarily true and I don’t think is true.
    Based on the FSW, it’s better. The question is what will make their new life better? Killing smokie who has taken over the body of Locke or smokie getting off the island.[/quote]

    Recall this happened a LONG LONG time ago. As in Jacob could have wised-up and learned all there is to learn about the island so to say he does not know the real purpose of the island is a strech. Drinking the kool-aid err wine CrazyMom gave him may have enlightened him.

    As to SMOKEY wether you believe he is MIB or a seperate entity, going into the “light” probably revealed a lot of stuff in terms of the island.

    point being lost rocks the kasbah

  344. Mateo says:

    Season finale leaked!… spoiler, dont click if you dont want to see finale scene…

  345. Pterradon says:

    Of course, this could be wrong too and in the last 5 minutes we see Bob Newhart waking up and saying, “Wow, what a dream I just had!”[/quote]

    Now that would be cool!

  346. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="374508"][quote comment="374501"]Since Jacob and MIB don’t know the real purpose of the island, then there is no way Widmore does. So, the thought that if Flocke gets off the island that the world will be worse isn’t necessarily true and I don’t think is true.
    Based on the FSW, it’s better. The question is what will make their new life better? Killing smokie who has taken over the body of Locke or smokie getting off the island.[/quote]

    Recall this happened a LONG LONG time ago. As in Jacob could have wised-up and learned all there is to learn about the island so to say he does not know the real purpose of the island is a strech. Drinking the kool-aid err wine CrazyMom gave him may have enlightened him.

    As to SMOKEY wether you believe he is MIB or a seperate entity, going into the “light” probably revealed a lot of stuff in terms of the island.

    point being lost rocks the kasbah[/quote]
    I agree. I think Jacob knows quite a bit. It definately seems as though he had some sort of plan in place from the beginning. It was clear that he knew that FLocke was Smokey when he walked into the foot of the statue. It was not a surprise.

    I also agree w/ some earlier posts that Jacob wanted Ben to kill him. He could have easily aplogized to Ben and tried to talk him out of it but he provoked it by saying “what about you.” Now I’m not sure of the reason… some said he was tired after who knows how many years as the protector. To me the real question is why would he want to die w/o having a replacement yet? Which brings me to this… Ilana knew to grab his ashes. To me that was not a random act. I think Jacob may have told her to grab them. Maybe this prayer is why: Forasmuch as it hath pleased Almighty God of his great mercy to take unto himself the soul of our dear brother here departed, we therefore commit his body to the ground; earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust; in sure and certain hope of the Resurrection to eternal life, through our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall change our vile body, that it may be like unto his glorious body, according to the mighty working, whereby he is able to subdue all things to himself.

  347. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374500"]as I said, I hope Dez having gone into the light doesn’t manifest smokey powers and have a major monster duel to the death at the end… its reminding me of Stephen King, who admits to not plotting to the end when he writes a story, beginning with intriguing concepts and leading to dopey endings…[/quote]

    I told my daughter if they throw some stupid “Boss Fight” ending in, it will ruin the whole series. I would be very surprised if they do. The writing has been very good to this point.

  348. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="374511"][quote comment="374508"][quote comment="374501"]Since Jacob and MIB don’t know the real purpose of the island, then there is no way Widmore does. So, the thought that if Flocke gets off the island that the world will be worse isn’t necessarily true and I don’t think is true.
    Based on the FSW, it’s better. The question is what will make their new life better? Killing smokie who has taken over the body of Locke or smokie getting off the island.[/quote]

    Recall this happened a LONG LONG time ago. As in Jacob could have wised-up and learned all there is to learn about the island so to say he does not know the real purpose of the island is a strech. Drinking the kool-aid err wine CrazyMom gave him may have enlightened him.

    As to SMOKEY wether you believe he is MIB or a seperate entity, going into the “light” probably revealed a lot of stuff in terms of the island.

    point being lost rocks the kasbah[/quote]
    I agree. I think Jacob knows quite a bit. It definately seems as though he had some sort of plan in place from the beginning. It was clear that he knew that FLocke was Smokey when he walked into the foot of the statue. It was not a surprise.

    I also agree w/ some earlier posts that Jacob wanted Ben to kill him. He could have easily aplogized to Ben and tried to talk him out of it but he provoked it by saying “what about you.” Now I’m not sure of the reason… some said he was tired after who knows how many years as the protector. To me the real question is why would he want to die w/o having a replacement yet? Which brings me to this… Ilana knew to grab his ashes. To me that was not a random act. I think Jacob may have told her to grab them. Maybe this prayer is why: Forasmuch as it hath pleased Almighty God of his great mercy to take unto himself the soul of our dear brother here departed, we therefore commit his body to the ground; earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust; in sure and certain hope of the Resurrection to eternal life, through our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall change our vile body, that it may be like unto his glorious body, according to the mighty working, whereby he is able to subdue all things to himself.[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    I am still sticking by my theory that Richard is the new protector of the island. After his little wine tasting with Jacob on the beach I think the torch was passed without Richards Knowledge, thats why he doesnt age. I think the purpose of the remaining candidates is to stop smokey somehow because Richard is not able to do it directly just like Smokey could not kill Jacob directly.

  349. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374509"]Season finale leaked!… spoiler, dont click if you dont want to see finale scene…

    Funny stuff!

  350. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374513"][quote comment="374511"][quote comment="374508"][quote comment="374501"]Since Jacob and MIB don’t know the real purpose of the island, then there is no way Widmore does. So, the thought that if Flocke gets off the island that the world will be worse isn’t necessarily true and I don’t think is true.
    Based on the FSW, it’s better. The question is what will make their new life better? Killing smokie who has taken over the body of Locke or smokie getting off the island.[/quote]

    Recall this happened a LONG LONG time ago. As in Jacob could have wised-up and learned all there is to learn about the island so to say he does not know the real purpose of the island is a strech. Drinking the kool-aid err wine CrazyMom gave him may have enlightened him.

    As to SMOKEY wether you believe he is MIB or a seperate entity, going into the “light” probably revealed a lot of stuff in terms of the island.

    point being lost rocks the kasbah[/quote]
    I agree. I think Jacob knows quite a bit. It definately seems as though he had some sort of plan in place from the beginning. It was clear that he knew that FLocke was Smokey when he walked into the foot of the statue. It was not a surprise.

    I also agree w/ some earlier posts that Jacob wanted Ben to kill him. He could have easily aplogized to Ben and tried to talk him out of it but he provoked it by saying “what about you.” Now I’m not sure of the reason… some said he was tired after who knows how many years as the protector. To me the real question is why would he want to die w/o having a replacement yet? Which brings me to this… Ilana knew to grab his ashes. To me that was not a random act. I think Jacob may have told her to grab them. Maybe this prayer is why: Forasmuch as it hath pleased Almighty God of his great mercy to take unto himself the soul of our dear brother here departed, we therefore commit his body to the ground; earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust; in sure and certain hope of the Resurrection to eternal life, through our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall change our vile body, that it may be like unto his glorious body, according to the mighty working, whereby he is able to subdue all things to himself.[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    I am still sticking by my theory that Richard is the new protector of the island. After his little wine tasting with Jacob on the beach I think the torch was passed without Richards Knowledge, thats why he doesnt age. I think the purpose of the remaining candidates is to stop smokey somehow because Richard is not able to do it directly just like Smokey could not kill Jacob directly.[/quote]

    Also Richard is the only one without a life in the FSW.

  351. mikemarks says:

    with at least the kids in the woods, we know that apparation are appearing that are not Flocke impersonations, so how about the ghost of the real Locke?
    Because the Source has such an abundant of Light, I was assuming that MIB received Light entering the cave… now I’m thinking the opposite. There’s a meditation/visualization technique where a person imagines light building in his/her body to push out the negetive, and then he/she imagines that negetive as a black smoke that is exhaled out of the body… what if the Source absorbs, sucks out, whatever light is in the enterer, in this case MIB, killing the body and taking the light, all that’s left over is the black smoke? Dez can withstand/survive the Light. Maybe he’ll enter the Source at the end and confront entity face to face. Maybe he’ll stop the entity but lose his own life doing so. He’d be sacrificing himself, but the real person making the sacrifice would be Penny. Maybe Witmore foresees thatr sacrifice which is why he wishes his daughter not to love Dez and become so hurt. The episode that showed the great love between Dez and Penny was called “The Constant.” Such a power of communion holds the Universe together? Maybe Dez will become the island entity and Penny the guardian, as the only means to stay with him. Is the Constant not a single person but the ‘love’ between two people? Maybe that love is tested as well as the character of the candidate. As much as our couples love each other, Dez and Penny are the greatest (the Kwons may argue that point)

  352. Robjan says:

    I’ve just rewatched “across the sea” and noticed a few things.

    Fake mom says to BIB TWICE “may I join you?” this is same thing MIB says to Jacob on beach in the finale, last year. As seen in ” ab aeterno,” Jacob does NOT need to say it to MIB.

    What does it mean? I have no idea, but there are some possibilities. Does every smokie need to say it to a protector or possible protector? If so, then fake mom was a smokie and BIB was supposed to be a protector.

    Also in the episode, fake mom tells Jacob that BIB can leave because ‘that was his choice.’ Same thing that jacob let’s people do. Maybe being a protector and a smokie are not necessarily such different things. Maybe you can be both.

    Other things I noted: young Jacob sounds just like Ben when he complained to fake mom about liking BIB more. Sounds like the “what about you” scene.

    BIB’s people WERE burned because he screamed it to jacob before being thrown into the light.

    Lastly, why is MIB stuck as john locke?

  353. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374517"]I’ve just rewatched “across the sea” and noticed a few things.

    Fake mom says to BIB TWICE “may I join you?” this is same thing MIB says to Jacob on beach in the finale, last year. As seen in ” ab aeterno,” Jacob does NOT need to say it to MIB.

    What does it mean? I have no idea, but there are some possibilities. Does every smokie need to say it to a protector or possible protector? If so, then fake mom was a smokie and BIB was supposed to be a protector.

    Also in the episode, fake mom tells Jacob that BIB can leave because ‘that was his choice.’

    Same thing that jacob let’s people do. Maybe being a protector and a smokie are not necessarily such different things. Maybe you can be both.

    Other things I noted: young Jacob sounds just like Ben when he complained to fake mom about liking BIB more. Sounds like the “what about you” scene.

    BIB’s people WERE burned because he screamed it to jacob before being thrown into the light.

    Lastly, why is MIB stuck as john locke?[/quote]

    Earlier this year, in the Richard episode at the end, didn’t Jacob say “may I join you” before giving MIB the wine?

    And could MIB been talking about the village being burned and not the people? Looking at the scene, that’s how it looked.

  354. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374511"][quote comment="374508"][quote comment="374501"]Since Jacob and MIB don’t know the real purpose of the island, then there is no way Widmore does. So, the thought that if Flocke gets off the island that the world will be worse isn’t necessarily true and I don’t think is true.
    Based on the FSW, it’s better. The question is what will make their new life better? Killing smokie who has taken over the body of Locke or smokie getting off the island.[/quote]

    Recall this happened a LONG LONG time ago. As in Jacob could have wised-up and learned all there is to learn about the island so to say he does not know the real purpose of the island is a strech. Drinking the kool-aid err wine CrazyMom gave him may have enlightened him.

    As to SMOKEY wether you believe he is MIB or a seperate entity, going into the “light” probably revealed a lot of stuff in terms of the island.

    point being lost rocks the kasbah[/quote]
    I agree. I think Jacob knows quite a bit. It definately seems as though he had some sort of plan in place from the beginning. It was clear that he knew that FLocke was Smokey when he walked into the foot of the statue. It was not a surprise.

    I also agree w/ some earlier posts that Jacob wanted Ben to kill him. He could have easily aplogized to Ben and tried to talk him out of it but he provoked it by saying “what about you.” Now I’m not sure of the reason… some said he was tired after who knows how many years as the protector. To me the real question is why would he want to die w/o having a replacement yet? Which brings me to this… Ilana knew to grab his ashes. To me that was not a random act. I think Jacob may have told her to grab them. Maybe this prayer is why: Forasmuch as it hath pleased Almighty God of his great mercy to take unto himself the soul of our dear brother here departed, we therefore commit his body to the ground; earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust; in sure and certain hope of the Resurrection to eternal life, through our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall change our vile body, that it may be like unto his glorious body, according to the mighty working, whereby he is able to subdue all things to himself.[/quote]

    I am guessing the reason Jacob doesn’t mind “dying” is because the next candidate is already on the island (93% sure its Jack). That scene in the Lighthouse sort of speaks to this.

    I doubt Jacob would let himself (the protector) of the island get killed without knowing exactly whats going on (will happen). Its funny that at the beginning of the season the fLocke seemed to be ahead (knowing the next move) but now Jacob seems to have the upper hand (in the game whose rules he may have very well created)…

  355. Pterradon says:

    Earlier posts have mentioned about Richard drinking the same wine that Fake Mom gave Jacob. I suppose that is what made both ageless. But Jacob gave the wine to MIB that promptly broke it. It would appear that Jacob knows that no one else will need to live forever, that maybe the end game is being played out, not just another cycle of protectors and such.

  356. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374520"]Earlier posts have mentioned about Richard drinking the same wine that Fake Mom gave Jacob. I suppose that is what made both ageless. But Jacob gave the wine to MIB that promptly broke it. It would appear that Jacob knows that no one else will need to live forever, that maybe the end game is being played out, not just another cycle of protectors and such.[/quote]

    I really doubt its the wine that has the mystical/magical powers. Jacob giving it to SMOKEY (in MIB form) was more a plot device to let us the viewers know the island was like the bottle and Jacob the cork that kept “evil incarnate” in.

    If you recall when Riccardus asks for eternal life Jacob touches him. This to me signifies Jacob giving Riccardus the “gift.” I believe Riccardus alludes to this is Ab Eterno telling Jack he was touched by Jacob and “cursed” with eternal life…

  357. Miraks says:

    Random thought- I keep thinking about the shot of the two babies, one light, one dark, next to each other, and the scene where Jack and Claire are mirrored in the music box lid next to each other, one light , one dark. Anyone else think it might have been a big easter egg? Jacob= Jack (duh, he is the shepherd) and Claire= MIB (it would be interesting if his name was Cedron-Cedron the black torrent, the brook flowing through the ravine below the eastern wall of Jerusalem)

  358. Pterradon says:

    [quote comment="374521"][quote comment="374520"]Earlier posts have mentioned about Richard drinking the same wine that Fake Mom gave Jacob. I suppose that is what made both ageless. But Jacob gave the wine to MIB that promptly broke it. It would appear that Jacob knows that no one else will need to live forever, that maybe the end game is being played out, not just another cycle of protectors and such.[/quote]

    I really doubt its the wine that has the mystical/magical powers. Jacob giving it to SMOKEY (in MIB form) was more a plot device to let us the viewers know the island was like the bottle and Jacob the cork that kept “evil incarnate” in.

    If you recall when Riccardus asks for eternal life Jacob touches him. This to me signifies Jacob giving Riccardus the “gift.” I believe Riccardus alludes to this is Ab Eterno telling Jack he was touched by Jacob and “cursed” with eternal life…[/quote]

    I couldn’t recall enough of that scene between Jacob and Riccardus to remember if the wine was before or after his asking for eternal life. So the wine was before that?

  359. justguessing says:

    I think its pretty much a given that the candidate is on the island. I’m not convinced it’s Jack. Now that we know that Jacob & MIB are/were brothers… Did anyone else think about how Desmond calls everyone Brother? It could be just the thing his character does, but to me it also seems like something the writers would do to have given us a hint from the begining. We already know that the rules do not apply to Desmond and that FLocke could not kill him. Not sure what all this would mean but just something to think about.

  360. Miraks says:

    Also, the brook of Cedron was what Jesus crossed when leading his disciples into the garden. It was righ after his prayer for all people http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+17 and his acceptance of his fate, right before he was betrayed by Judas.

  361. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374524"]I think its pretty much a given that the candidate is on the island. I’m not convinced it’s Jack. Now that we know that Jacob & MIB are/were brothers… Did anyone else think about how Desmond calls everyone Brother? It could be just the thing his character does, but to me it also seems like something the writers would do to have given us a hint from the begining. We already know that the rules do not apply to Desmond and that FLocke could not kill him. Not sure what all this would mean but just something to think about.[/quote]

    haha brotha…

    I doubt Des will be the candidate simply because of his affinity for the word “brother.” But he definitely is a “candidate” to be the next Jacob given what you said about smokies inability to kill him and alleged super powers…

    see you in another life brotha

  362. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="374526"][quote comment="374524"]I think its pretty much a given that the candidate is on the island. I’m not convinced it’s Jack. Now that we know that Jacob & MIB are/were brothers… Did anyone else think about how Desmond calls everyone Brother? It could be just the thing his character does, but to me it also seems like something the writers would do to have given us a hint from the begining. We already know that the rules do not apply to Desmond and that FLocke could not kill him. Not sure what all this would mean but just something to think about.[/quote]

    haha brotha…

    I doubt Des will be the candidate simply because of his affinity for the word “brother.” But he definitely is a “candidate” to be the next Jacob given what you said about smokies inability to kill him and alleged super powers…

    see you in another life brotha[/quote]
    haha i agree its kinda out there as far as theories go but Desmond is the front-runner in my mind. When Flocke showed Desmond the well and he said to him “you dont seem scared” and Desomnd said “what’s there to be afraid of”… Flocke immediately thru him down the well and then ordered him dead. I think Flocke was feeling him out and kinda saw something in him that he didnt like. And Sayid right before he killed himself told Jack to go see Desmond because you’ll need him. Also, Desmond was not on the original 815 flight, but he was on the FSW 815 flight that landed safely.

  363. G455 says:

    [quote comment="374516"]with at least the kids in the woods, we know that apparation are appearing that are not Flocke impersonations, so how about the ghost of the real Locke?
    Because the Source has such an abundant of Light, I was assuming that MIB received Light entering the cave… now I’m thinking the opposite. There’s a meditation/visualization technique where a person imagines light building in his/her body to push out the negetive, and then he/she imagines that negetive as a black smoke that is exhaled out of the body… what if the Source absorbs, sucks out, whatever light is in the enterer, in this case MIB, killing the body and taking the light, all that’s left over is the black smoke? Dez can withstand/survive the Light. Maybe he’ll enter the Source at the end and confront entity face to face. Maybe he’ll stop the entity but lose his own life doing so. He’d be sacrificing himself, but the real person making the sacrifice would be Penny. Maybe Witmore foresees thatr sacrifice which is why he wishes his daughter not to love Dez and become so hurt. The episode that showed the great love between Dez and Penny was called “The Constant.” Such a power of communion holds the Universe together? Maybe Dez will become the island entity and Penny the guardian, as the only means to stay with him. Is the Constant not a single person but the ‘love’ between two people? Maybe that love is tested as well as the character of the candidate. As much as our couples love each other, Dez and Penny are the greatest (the Kwons may argue that point)[/quote]

    I like this!

  364. Bobola says:

    [quote comment="374496"]
    Bobola- I noticed how pregnant Claudia still looked after giving birth, you couldn’t miss it. I remember saying her belly should have gone down significantly. Mother didn’t notice because she was too busy rejoicing over the birth of her replacement. Even before we knew what her intentions were for poor Claudia, she had a strange look on her face that was more than just admiring the cute little baby she just helped deliver. She was definitely surprised by the second baby but probably thought she got more than she bargained for.[/quote]

    It just rang false for me; Not sure how I wudda solved it if I was directing but probably had Fake Mom say; “You must have twins (gasping sound)”
    OR
    had Real Mom say after the baby first exits; “I have two babies!”

    Unless F-Mom was blind she could not have missed the HUGE bulge still there inches from the birth canal …or she has no peripheral vision at all. But then
    F-Mom is also portrayed as someone so KNOWING that she can tell when the boys are lying about the game at the beach and such a visionary that she has all this knowledge about protecting the Island.
    Well, maybe she was scanning the rocks thinkin'; “which one will crush her skull the best…?”
    Or maybe preoccupied conjugating verbs in whatever language she was speaking at first on the beach;
    I’m soooo soooo sorry!
    I’m sorry as sorry can be!
    I will be sorry but you will be sorriest.
    There will be much sorrow in your future.
    I’m saying I’m sorry but sorry I’m not.
    Parting is such sweet sorrow…
    lovely children by the way…wham!
    …but just went with the simple declarative.

    Maybe she just “don’t know nutthin’ bout birthin’ no babies?” And now she’s just Gone With the (Smokey) Wind?

    My friend called me after last weeks demise of Sun and Jin almost crying. I had to try hard not to laugh and held back from;
    It’s only a movie!
    Kept hearing; Aint No Sunshine When She’s Gone in my Head.
    I know it’s late to comment on that scene but I thought it was pretty hokey—I just couldn’t get upset about it. Maybe why I didn’t feel sad; just disappointed in the cliche ending of two very interesting characters.

    I also am SURE that Sun would have DEMANDED that Jin save himself for the good of their child. NO DOUBT at all about that. Someone brought this up before but I want to underline it.
    OK, we all know things are sometimes written because the Actor playing the part NEEDS to leave to go on to other projects and that is exactly what I suspect happened.
    Writers;
    “Oh crap…we gotta kill off Sun and Jin next week!
    I got Nothing! Water on the Brain…aaarrrgh!”

    Also wishing it had been Hurley who got torpedo sandwiched as I’m quite tired of him.

  365. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374527"][quote comment="374526"][quote comment="374524"]I think its pretty much a given that the candidate is on the island. I’m not convinced it’s Jack. Now that we know that Jacob & MIB are/were brothers… Did anyone else think about how Desmond calls everyone Brother? It could be just the thing his character does, but to me it also seems like something the writers would do to have given us a hint from the begining. We already know that the rules do not apply to Desmond and that FLocke could not kill him. Not sure what all this would mean but just something to think about.[/quote]

    haha brotha…

    I doubt Des will be the candidate simply because of his affinity for the word “brother.” But he definitely is a “candidate” to be the next Jacob given what you said about smokies inability to kill him and alleged super powers…

    see you in another life brotha[/quote]
    haha i agree its kinda out there as far as theories go but Desmond is the front-runner in my mind. When Flocke showed Desmond the well and he said to him “you dont seem scared” and Desomnd said “what’s there to be afraid of”… Flocke immediately thru him down the well and then ordered him dead. I think Flocke was feeling him out and kinda saw something in him that he didnt like. And Sayid right before he killed himself told Jack to go see Desmond because you’ll need him. Also, Desmond was not on the original 815 flight, but he was on the FSW 815 flight that landed safely.[/quote]
    I think Des is definitely a front runner as well. Something about his character definitely sticks out. For one, he is the only mortal who has been into the light other than MIB…remember the key incident. We know he can absorb large amounts of electromagnetism because Widmore subjected him to it. Also, he is the only one other than the candidates who MIB can’t kill.

    In the “world”, other than Island world, Des has seen Eloise twice and twice she has changed the game. Most recently very SIGNIFICANT change. Now in FSW Des is on a mission to show everyone that some weird $hit is going down.

    Also, I think Flocke is somehow, this is gonna sound weird, a candidate. He was always the one I think. According to the hieroglyphics smokie has always been the protector. Unless I am completely off…those hyro’s are way older than Jacob…as well as the statue. Those type of hyros were BC not AD. Any ideas???

  366. way_lost says:

    Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?

  367. RGS says:

    [quote comment="374529"]
    Well, maybe she was scanning the rocks thinkin'; “which one will crush her skull the best…?”
    Or maybe preoccupied conjugating verbs in whatever language she was speaking at first on the beach;
    I’m soooo soooo sorry!
    I’m sorry as sorry can be!
    I will be sorry but you will be sorriest.
    There will be much sorrow in your future.
    I’m saying I’m sorry but sorry I’m not.
    Parting is such sweet sorrow…
    lovely children by the way…wham!
    …but just went with the simple declarative.

    Maybe she just “don’t know nutthin’ bout birthin’ no babies?” And now she’s just Gone With the (Smokey) Wind?

    [/quote]

    LOL. Too funny.

  368. way_lost says:

    Oh yeah, we’ve seen a lot of people come back to give advice in their ghost form. Why haven’t we seen Locke? I think the reason for this may be huge.

    Also, Christian telling Michael “he could go now” was definitely a protector type message. In other words, you have done enough to repent, you can die now. Was that Christian “proper” or Christian “MIB style”.

  369. mikemarks says:

    [quote comment="374530"][quote comment="374527"][quote comment="374526"][quote comment="374524"]I think its pretty much a given that the candidate is on the island. I’m not convinced it’s Jack. Now that we know that Jacob & MIB are/were brothers… Did anyone else think about how Desmond calls everyone Brother? It could be just the thing his character does, but to me it also seems like something the writers would do to have given us a hint from the begining. We already know that the rules do not apply to Desmond and that FLocke could not kill him. Not sure what all this would mean but just something to think about.[/quote]

    haha brotha…

    I doubt Des will be the candidate simply because of his affinity for the word “brother.” But he definitely is a “candidate” to be the next Jacob given what you said about smokies inability to kill him and alleged super powers…

    see you in another life brotha[/quote]
    haha i agree its kinda out there as far as theories go but Desmond is the front-runner in my mind. When Flocke showed Desmond the well and he said to him “you dont seem scared” and Desomnd said “what’s there to be afraid of”… Flocke immediately thru him down the well and then ordered him dead. I think Flocke was feeling him out and kinda saw something in him that he didnt like. And Sayid right before he killed himself told Jack to go see Desmond because you’ll need him. Also, Desmond was not on the original 815 flight, but he was on the FSW 815 flight that landed safely.[/quote]
    I think Des is definitely a front runner as well. Something about his character definitely sticks out. For one, he is the only mortal who has been into the light other than MIB…remember the key incident. We know he can absorb large amounts of electromagnetism because Widmore subjected him to it. Also, he is the only one other than the candidates who MIB can’t kill.

    In the “world”, other than Island world, Des has seen Eloise twice and twice she has changed the game. Most recently very SIGNIFICANT change. Now in FSW Des is on a mission to show everyone that some weird $hit is going down.

    Also, I think Flocke is somehow, this is gonna sound weird, a candidate. He was always the one I think. According to the hieroglyphics smokie has always been the protector. Unless I am completely off…those hyro’s are way older than Jacob…as well as the statue. Those type of hyros were BC not AD. Any ideas???[/quote]
    you made me think… maybe Locke is Locke, a Locke who has received special gifts to complete his agenda, and his agenda, willingly, enthusiastically, has been, since he encountered the island, to be One with the island. We know his walking was an island gift. Maybe he actually is timetraveler Locke before his death.

  370. way_lost says:

    And another thing…Eloise and Widmore know A LOT. At least a lot more than we do about the Island. I hope we find out as much as they know before this thing ends. If the writers allow it…

  371. mikemarks says:

    ok, maybe fakemom forsees the future, the full tapestry of time, and knows there must be Good and Evil in balance, MIB was ordained to lose his body and the light inside him, and take on the mantle of the black smoke, the evil, while Jacob strives for the good. She releases both but above all else tries to contain it to the island, the center point of all ripples. As I said, Locke is Locke, maybe timetraveler Locke before his death, who, along with walking, has received special gifts to complete his own agenda, BUT, he’s playing both sides, the fulfillment of his agenda while posing as an ally to the lightlessblacksmoke. He’ll complete his agenda as a hero, betraying the black smoke at the right moment. His personal agenda, since encountering the island, seems to be One with the island, never to leave it, but he will see to it that the smoke don’t leave. If all that was so, then why was he willing to blow up his friends in the sub? Maybe he thought they couldn’t be killed, that the bomb couldn’t go off, so now he realizes that the smoke betrayed him first and he’s “”going off to finished what” he “started.”

  372. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.

  373. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374534"][quote comment="374530"][quote comment="374527"][quote comment="374526"][quote comment="374524"]I think its pretty much a given that the candidate is on the island. [/quote]
    you made me think… maybe Locke is Locke, a Locke who has received special gifts to complete his agenda, and his agenda, willingly, enthusiastically, has been, since he encountered the island, to be One with the island. We know his walking was an island gift. Maybe he actually is timetraveler Locke before his death [/quote]
    ____________

    I doubt fLocke is Locke as in the same person. Ilana made the point of telling this to the group in last seasons finale.

    What could happen, and this is just conjecture on my part, is that Des is able to “wake up” either “dead” Locke on island or wake up his subconscious that fLocke/smokey seems to possess.

  374. mikemarks says:

    I forgot, Locke has another agenda, to stay out of that wheelchair. Would be too sad if he did heroics at the end against maybe his smokey benefactor and got in return all his gifts removed, encluding being able to walk. Sacrice. Rather seeing him sit back down, I’d rather see him stand, on his own good legs, tall on one of the island precipices and spread his arms wide with that winning smile

  375. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]

    Completely agree. I would go as far as saying SMOKEY appears as the MIB to throw it in Jacobs face that he killed him. a sort of guilt trip. I still cant see the boy/man who loved Jacob now telling him flat out he wants to kill him. SMOKEY= separate entity

  376. mikemarks says:

    last thought… concerning Locke being Locke, posing as an ally to the smoke, playing two sides of the fence, etc. … remember, in his veins runs the blood of Conman Supreme.

  377. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]
    Well, first, I believe the hyros and pictures showing smokie being summoned are a lot older than 43 AD. This would leave me to believe that smokie was someone else before he was MIB. Another thing, the writers went out of their way to show MIB’s “good side” his “humanity”, the fact that he has feelings and so on. Are we to believe that MIB is evil solely because he hates Jacob and wants to kill him??? Seriously dude? You ask why would I not think Smokie is evil? He was freagin tricked, figured it out, and tried to devise a way of escape when he was beaten and thrown down a hole by his only brother. Again…SERIOUSLY? Why do I think MIB isn’t evil?? If you think about it Jacob caused the “worse than death” fate of his brother…the man who killed the crazy woman who killed THEIR mother. So……yeah

  378. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374540"][quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]

    Completely agree. I would go as far as saying SMOKEY appears as the MIB to throw it in Jacobs face that he killed him. a sort of guilt trip. I still cant see the boy/man who loved Jacob now telling him flat out he wants to kill him. SMOKEY= separate entity[/quote]
    MIB is smokie. Remember what he told Sawyer…

    S: what are you?
    Smokie: Long ago I was a man just like you…blah blah. “I have also known loss like you” (this part gives it away).

    MIB is smoke monster.

  379. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]
    I dont think fake mom left the game for BIB. I think she lied to keep him from thinking that it came from somewhere else or that there was a somewhere else. She tried her hardest to keep that from him. When she asked Jacob where he was, the look on her face said that she did not know and she immediately went out there to talk to him. I think that she knew BIB was the real candidate. He clearly was connected to the island and at the time Jacob was not. Jacob knew this also and he repeatedly said that she loved him more. I think thats also why BIB and not Jacob was able to see their real mom. They made it a point to show Jacob turn around and look to show us that he could not see her.

  380. Guttahman says:

    [quote comment="374542"][quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]
    Well, first, I believe the hyros and pictures showing smokie being summoned are a lot older than 43 AD. This would leave me to believe that smokie was someone else before he was MIB. Another thing, the writers went out of their way to show MIB’s “good side” his “humanity”, the fact that he has feelings and so on. Are we to believe that MIB is evil solely because he hates Jacob and wants to kill him??? Seriously dude? You ask why would I not think Smokie is evil? He was freagin tricked, figured it out, and tried to devise a way of escape when he was beaten and thrown down a hole by his only brother. Again…SERIOUSLY? Why do I think MIB isn’t evil?? If you think about it Jacob caused the “worse than death” fate of his brother…the man who killed the crazy woman who killed THEIR mother. So……yeah[/quote]

    All you said is true IF you believe that Smokey did not exist before MIB was thrown into the light OR that MIB is still alive and manifests himself as smokey….I never said MIB was evil..i said SMOKEY was evil and i firmly believe Smokey was there way before Jacob or MIB…like I said before, the Man In Black is DEAD, just like Locke in the original timeline with a corpse to prove it…I believe smokey=smokey, an entity that was there before and will be there after all is said and done, smokey is what needs to be protected so its power does not fall into the wrong hands, smokey just appeared to be MIB to Jacob and Alex to Ben and Locke to everyone else…so my point being, MIB as a MAN seemed decent enough….smokey appearing as MIB or Locke is the evil that men do.

  381. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374540"][quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]

    Completely agree. I would go as far as saying SMOKEY appears as the MIB to throw it in Jacobs face that he killed him. a sort of guilt trip. I still cant see the boy/man who loved Jacob now telling him flat out he wants to kill him. SMOKEY= separate entity[/quote]

    I also agree. SMOKEY takes on the form that will benefit him the most in reaching his goal at the time. When the Black Rock was brought to the island, I’m sure he took on forms of the dead passengers to further his cause which is to win Jacobs game. I’m sure there have been many attempts with other “Bens” to kill Jacob but it took until this time to actually accomplish it. Now he is the closest he has ever been to actually winning.

  382. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374545"][quote comment="374542"][quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]
    Well, first, I believe the hyros and pictures showing smokie being summoned are a lot older than 43 AD. This would leave me to believe that smokie was someone else before he was MIB. Another thing, the writers went out of their way to show MIB’s “good side” his “humanity”, the fact that he has feelings and so on. Are we to believe that MIB is evil solely because he hates Jacob and wants to kill him??? Seriously dude? You ask why would I not think Smokie is evil? He was freagin tricked, figured it out, and tried to devise a way of escape when he was beaten and thrown down a hole by his only brother. Again…SERIOUSLY? Why do I think MIB isn’t evil?? If you think about it Jacob caused the “worse than death” fate of his brother…the man who killed the crazy woman who killed THEIR mother. So……yeah[/quote]

    All you said is true IF you believe that Smokey did not exist before MIB was thrown into the light OR that MIB is still alive and manifests himself as smokey….I never said MIB was evil..i said SMOKEY was evil and i firmly believe Smokey was there way before Jacob or MIB…like I said before, the Man In Black is DEAD, just like Locke in the original timeline with a corpse to prove it…I believe smokey=smokey, an entity that was there before and will be there after all is said and done, smokey is what needs to be protected so its power does not fall into the wrong hands, smokey just appeared to be MIB to Jacob and Alex to Ben and Locke to everyone else…so my point being, MIB as a MAN seemed decent enough….smokey appearing as MIB or Locke is the evil that men do.[/quote]
    I definitely see what you are saying, but the writers made a point of many things we can’t overlook. For instance MIB really really wants to leave…across the sea…back home. Smokie, really really wants to leave the Island. So…if smokie is smokie, why does he want to leave? To free, unpop the cork, like Jacob told Richard? That story he told Rich was BS so that Rich would help him. Another pawn…or con. Remember in this origins episode that Jacob was raised by a conwoman.

  383. justguessing says:

    [quote comment="374547"][quote comment="374545"][quote comment="374542"][quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]
    Well, first, I believe the hyros and pictures showing smokie being summoned are a lot older than 43 AD. This would leave me to believe that smokie was someone else before he was MIB. Another thing, the writers went out of their way to show MIB’s “good side” his “humanity”, the fact that he has feelings and so on. Are we to believe that MIB is evil solely because he hates Jacob and wants to kill him??? Seriously dude? You ask why would I not think Smokie is evil? He was freagin tricked, figured it out, and tried to devise a way of escape when he was beaten and thrown down a hole by his only brother. Again…SERIOUSLY? Why do I think MIB isn’t evil?? If you think about it Jacob caused the “worse than death” fate of his brother…the man who killed the crazy woman who killed THEIR mother. So……yeah[/quote]

    All you said is true IF you believe that Smokey did not exist before MIB was thrown into the light OR that MIB is still alive and manifests himself as smokey….I never said MIB was evil..i said SMOKEY was evil and i firmly believe Smokey was there way before Jacob or MIB…like I said before, the Man In Black is DEAD, just like Locke in the original timeline with a corpse to prove it…I believe smokey=smokey, an entity that was there before and will be there after all is said and done, smokey is what needs to be protected so its power does not fall into the wrong hands, smokey just appeared to be MIB to Jacob and Alex to Ben and Locke to everyone else…so my point being, MIB as a MAN seemed decent enough….smokey appearing as MIB or Locke is the evil that men do.[/quote]
    I definitely see what you are saying, but the writers made a point of many things we can’t overlook. For instance MIB really really wants to leave…across the sea…back home. Smokie, really really wants to leave the Island. So…if smokie is smokie, why does he want to leave? To free, unpop the cork, like Jacob told Richard? That story he told Rich was BS so that Rich would help him. Another pawn…or con. Remember in this origins episode that Jacob was raised by a conwoman.[/quote]
    I agree. I dont think you can trust Jacob to be nothing but GOOD. I think they made a point to say that good vs evil is not so black and white. Think about this… Who was given a gift? Rose, no longer has cancer… a gift by the island. Locke, can walk… a gift by the island. BIB, was clearly connected to the island. On the other hand: Jacob was given his gift by fake mom… not the island. Richard was given his gift by Jacob… not the island. I think this makes a huge difference as we will probably see later.

  384. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374546"][quote comment="374540"][quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]

    Completely agree. I would go as far as saying SMOKEY appears as the MIB to throw it in Jacobs face that he killed him. a sort of guilt trip. I still cant see the boy/man who loved Jacob now telling him flat out he wants to kill him. SMOKEY= separate entity[/quote]

    I also agree. SMOKEY takes on the form that will benefit him the most in reaching his goal at the time. When the Black Rock was brought to the island, I’m sure he took on forms of the dead passengers to further his cause which is to win Jacobs game. I’m sure there have been many attempts with other “Bens” to kill Jacob but it took until this time to actually accomplish it. Now he is the closest he has ever been to actually winning.[/quote]
    Well, if you guys are right, then we have only seen a Jacob and MIB origin episode. I wonder if we will see Smokies origin episode. He said he was a man before, he says he wants to leave the Island. So he must have been a mortal person before. This far into it do you think they are going to introduce yet another character?!? MIB is smokey…this particular smokey.

    I wonder if Desmond is actually dead. He did go into the light. And how can a mortal man possibly take that much electromagnetic abuse when Widmore juiced him a few episodes back. I mean it totally jacked that other dude up.

  385. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374549"][quote comment="374546"][quote comment="374540"][quote comment="374537"][quote comment="374531"]Also, I think it’s possible crazy-mom knew what she was doing from the beginning. Maybe she wanted both boys to protect. One who would protect without question and one who could juggle between good and evil. Crazy-mom left the game on the beach for MIB not Jacob. She wanted him to learn how to play good against evil…white vs. black. She believed Jacob was too good…which meant too weak perhaps. Jacob told MIB that his people didn’t seem too bad and MIB called BS by saying they are selfish. Throughout this show both have killed or had killed people based on being good or just plain awlful: cooper, shannon, expose peeps etc… My question is there more than one smokie?? Did Dogen confuse evil incarnate with MIB. We know from this episode that smokie isn’t bad let alone “evil incarnate”. Also, did MIB spare Echo, but another smokie killed him?[/quote]

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

    What exactly did we see that proves smokey isnt bad? For all we know, and this is the most likely scenario, it was Smokey who killed everyone and burned the village…Smokey killed Keamy’s team, the temple people, some of our losties, etc…I dont think there should be any doubt that smokey/MIB/Locke/anyone else he has appeared as, is the “bad guy” here, his attempt at killing the candidates on the sub should prove that..I think people are reading a little too far into this past episode, with only 3 1/2 hours left in the series i highly doubt D&C would add another smokey into the mix….

    Im pretty sure the purpose of “Across the Sea” was to show Jacob and MIB’s origins, not introduce another smokey or bring up entirely new mysteries…

    IMO…MIB is dead as can be just like John Locke, if pre-existing smokey didnt kill him im sure the fall down the hole of light did, or maybe even being vomited out the hole of light like last nights Patron…either way Jacobs broham is dead and smokey is taking his form because if he didnt, chances are Jacob wouldnt know who he was or believe what he/it had to say.[/quote]

    Completely agree. I would go as far as saying SMOKEY appears as the MIB to throw it in Jacobs face that he killed him. a sort of guilt trip. I still cant see the boy/man who loved Jacob now telling him flat out he wants to kill him. SMOKEY= separate entity[/quote]

    I also agree. SMOKEY takes on the form that will benefit him the most in reaching his goal at the time. When the Black Rock was brought to the island, I’m sure he took on forms of the dead passengers to further his cause which is to win Jacobs game. I’m sure there have been many attempts with other “Bens” to kill Jacob but it took until this time to actually accomplish it. Now he is the closest he has ever been to actually winning.[/quote]
    Well, if you guys are right, then we have only seen a Jacob and MIB origin episode. I wonder if we will see Smokies origin episode. He said he was a man before, he says he wants to leave the Island. So he must have been a mortal person before. This far into it do you think they are going to introduce yet another character?!? MIB is smokey…this particular smokey.

    I wonder if Desmond is actually dead. He did go into the light. And how can a mortal man possibly take that much electromagnetic abuse when Widmore juiced him a few episodes back. I mean it totally jacked that other dude up.[/quote]
    ____________

    I did find it interesting that SMOKIE err fLocke made it a point to tell the losties (sawyer/kate) that he was a man before, but in a way that made it seem he had a whole life (wife kids career) NOT just a boy raised by a crazy midwife.

    So their could such a thing as a SMOKIE back-story (which we wont see and independent of BiB/MIB/evilJustinBeiber).

  386. way_lost says:

    Oh yeah. Remember how much Flocke was tripping out when Sawyer said he could see the kid. If Jacobs ghost is on the Island (assuming only because we havent seen any other blond kid dressed like that), then what if Jacob also went into the light after the timeline we saw last. How else would Jacob be a ghost if he isn’t dead or worse than dead? Desmond has abilities only because of the incident. Jacob isn’t special…in mortality he isn’t special. Just a regular dude. So regular he lives with a woman for 30 years who admits to killing his mother and obviously favors the other brother. He doesn’t even have above average common sense for Christ sake. Does anyone else think he went into the light after this episode??

  387. mikemarks says:

    afternoon watching old episodes from a point of view on Locke always being Locke… after he knifed Niomi and they’re beating on him he says “you might not believe me but everything I do is for the good of all of us.” He always knew too much and was too skilled for his backstory. I think smokey picked him out, healed his legs… when Locke has his first big face off with smokey maybe smokey revealed to Locke what he had done for him. Maybe that started deal making between the two. Maybe at one point Locke negotiated Rose’s cure. But secrets were revealed to him and he acted on what he knew for the good of everyone, even knifing Niomi, and even posing as smokey at smokey’s demand/request. Smokey can’t resemble anybody. All the ghosts are real. One of our highpoints will be seeing the release of all of those souls, centuries of souls, that were snatched and held by the light. So all our cast of characters who died in the vicinity of the island are alive ghostly as attachments to the Light. Maybe their Phantom Zone is the black smoke? Maybe Locke’s Fortress of Solitude education was at the bottom of the well? Now the smoke thinks Locke works for him but Locke will pull a surprise and heroically save the day. He’s Tom Cooper son! dam it! and he just pulled off the greatest con of all time, tricking the smoke, and Sawyer is going to have to bow his head to the Master. Locke will just say “sorry I had to fool you guys, but it was necessary.” Maybe sideways isn’t happening simultaneously, no more than our flash backs or flashfowards were in the present. Maybe sideways is a casting of a potential life losties can choose to enter. “But is it real?” one Lostie is bound to ask? Maybe some will be content to enter together sure (hoping) that one another is real, and others will choose to stay out of the well…

  388. mikemarks says:

    it’s never been a secret, long before the creative process completed on project Lost, the fans wanted Adam and Eve to be Rose and Bernard. My further prediction: the healing energy brings fake mom and mib back, it was a misleader… somewhere, sometime, long after that spot has been vacated, will find Rose and Bernard, about 40 years ago as was said, laying there to die.

  389. LostLove says:

    [quote comment="374491"][quote comment="374347"]I don’t necessarily think MIB is Smokey, but that Smokey subsumed MIB’s consciousness the way it did Locke’s.

    I also consider that BIB (boy in Black) didn’t see his mother, but rather Smokey as his mother.

    Smokey took Locke’s form only to get in to Jacob’s “room” in the foot of the statue. Remember, no one can go in who isn’t invited. Who more likely to be invited than the leading Candidate? And as Locke, he could manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. He can’t hurt Jacob himself (them’s the rules). But there is a loophole – he can convince someone else to kill Jacob.

    Smokey is using the same method on the candidates: he can’t kill them, but he can get them to kill each other, or Widmore to kill them.[/quote]
    Yes, but, Jacob was talking to Ben when Ben killed him which is inconsistent with the other “no talking, stab away” rules.[/quote]

    IMO, it is not inconsistent. Jacob, at that time was human and could be killed by the knife. Just like we saw his mom die. She was human, could die by the knife. Doesn’t matter tha tthey were in a conversation w/ the one that killed them. The “no talk, just stab to kill” rule applies only to the Smokie infested being, currently fLocke, formerly MIB.

  390. mikemarks says:

    ok, one more quick one… what if the candidate finds that instead of a CROWN HE MUST BE FED TO THE VOLCANO, the source light… maybe if all of the island’s dead’s souls are released, the candidate must replace them… the new God is stronger and wiser than the ones who came before him (hopefully, if Jacob and counterpart are examples, heck, might as well throw Jehoviah into that mix) so he was tested, so he passed… maybe the candidates will have to choose among themselves who is to make that sacrifice once they accept what it is… heck, maybe they’ll all hold hands and plunge in as a single candidate offering all their qualities to balance one another in the electromagneticsoup… except for Locke. He’s smiling on that precipice.

  391. wally p says:

    you guys I’m still skipping posts, I’m not even at the 300’s yet… but I AM working my way up, so I’ll keep this short…

    If you die and you go to Hell, (or somewhere in between…)and you are pregnant… Do your babies belong there? They are obviously going with you… so? What happens,,, the old maid who protects the light saves them and so forth…

    Now, when years go by and one refuses to be saved, ala “?” then the old maid has to make some choices.

    You summon the smoke, even though you know the dangers. You wait for “?” to kill you, because you know that once he does he is fair game for the smoke- then, you die, and the smoke gets his.

    Maybe the rules now for F-Locke are that he cant kill anyone who is special, or else he then becomes fair game for the light to absorb.

  392. wally p says:

    [quote comment="374409"]For example…today there is still debate over if the smoke monster = MIB. We have been told in this season that MIN does in fact = smoke monster.
    Last nights episode was meant to show us HOW he became that entity![/quote]

    Smoke monster DOES= MIB, but only AFTER he died. The smoke is not the MIB turned bad. The smoke is a flying prison of souls, MIB is just one of them, and smoke took his form to FUCK with Jacob. Dig? I know this has probably already been argued and I should get with the program and read all the posts before I post any further…sorry.

  393. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374474"][quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]

    Something to think about…if Smokey is it’s own entity and is not MIB, then if someone stabs Flocke with the dagger without letting him speak first there will be another body that looks like Locke’s body (Locke’s body is buried in the island cemetary) body with a skeletal structure…just like the “Eve” skeleton in the cave…right? Or is THIS version of Smokey different than when it was Mother?[/quote]

    I’m not sure that would happen. I think if Flocke were stabbed, the body would disapear, go poof, or something like it. Which is why I don’t think mom was smokie. She might have been able to call smokie forth, but was not smokie herself.[/quote]

    I’ve read a few times where MIB stabbed his mom before she talked. Was this necessary? MIB had talked to her many times before that. If she had turned around and said “hi”, would he just walk away for a few minutes and try it again? Dogan said it and Flocke said it, but it wasn’t necessary to kill Jacob and he was just like her.[/quote]
    I think she wanted to be stabbed. She said “thank you” remember. I don’t believe she killed their mother so that she could have some company on the island or because she wanted to steal the woman’s children. I think she wanted to be set free of her duty. I still think she had the whole thing planned. She took Jacob back to the light cave so he knew where it was and then went to fav-sons digs and knocked him out. When fav-son woke up he was furious with crazy-chick. She killed his mother, conned his brother, and killed his people after she filled in the hole. She knew he was coming for her. If she didn’t want it to happen she would have killed him and buried his a$$ in the hole. All of this HAD to be her plan. The question is: was she smokey from the hieroglyphs? She was prob smokey in the form of a woman the whole time Jacob and MIB were growing up. The hieroglyphs and that statue are pre A.D. I am going off another post where someone said Claudia’s shipwreck was 43 A.D. (I believe). Anyway, I think crazy-chick was smokey prior and she planned the whole shotin’ match. Ideas???

  394. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374557"][quote comment="374409"]For example…today there is still debate over if the smoke monster = MIB. We have been told in this season that MIN does in fact = smoke monster.
    Last nights episode was meant to show us HOW he became that entity![/quote]

    Smoke monster DOES= MIB, but only AFTER he died. The smoke is not the MIB turned bad. The smoke is a flying prison of souls, MIB is just one of them, and smoke took his form to FUCK with Jacob. Dig? I know this has probably already been argued and I should get with the program and read all the posts before I post any further…sorry.[/quote]
    “prison of souls”…I like!

  395. wally p says:

    [quote comment="374463"][quote comment="374460"][quote comment="374459"]After this last episode, I was thinking that it was not a good episode. But then my son came over and we talked for a long time about it. I realized that that is what this show is all about to me. New mysteries, not getting all the answers, the ambiguity of events, reading so many opinions whether they are AHA comments or hogwash. This last episode provided all of that. I’m convinced now that this was a great episode. I don’t want all the answers neatly gift wrapped. I like the adventure and can’t wait to see what the last 3 1/2 hours brings.[/quote]

    Agreed.

    I’ve been preaching this for some time.

    Here once in awhile, but mostly to friends and family that call me about LOST. I love that we get to interpret on our own most of the events.

    I too can’t wait to see what the ‘leave out’ for us to take on our own.[/quote]

    If a month from now someone asks me “So what was the deal with the smoke monster, that Jacob guy and the alternate time line with those people?” and I am able to answer them, I will be satisfied.[/quote]

    YOU MUSN’T!

    Every question they ask will simply lead to another question. Tell them just be glad that they’re alive. and then crush their brains with a rock.

  396. mikemarks says:

    if there’s anything to the theory of John conning the smoke aND SAVING THE DAY, and if he is timetravelingJohn before his death, then after the smoke is conquered John will haVE ONE MOre heroic act to do… close the timeloop by taking that trip off island that he knows will result in his death at the hands of Ben (he’s already seen his own corpse)

  397. mikemarks says:

    we’re still assuming the fmom is responsible for destroying the village… maybe when she saw the opening her son made, she realized the boogeyman will be coming through it and she knocked her son out to get him out of the way of the attack… and smoke being the prison of souls is what I suggested several posts up… the light sucked the light/life out of mib, gained his human memories, and wanted more, grabbing/imprisoning the light/life of every person who dies on the island and the losties, accomplishing their purpose, will free those souls, including mib, which will automatically end the smoke monster

  398. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374558"][quote comment="374474"][quote comment="374470"][quote comment="374285"]

    [/quote]

    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    I think she wanted to be stabbed. She said “thank you” remember. I don’t believe she killed their mother so that she could have some company on the island or because she wanted to steal the woman’s children. I think she wanted to be set free of her duty. I still think she had the whole thing planned. She took Jacob back to the light cave so he knew where it was and then went to fav-sons digs and knocked him out. When fav-son woke up he was furious with crazy-chick. She killed his mother, conned his brother, and killed his people after she filled in the hole. She knew he was coming for her. If she didn’t want it to happen she would have killed him and buried his a$$ in the hole. All of this HAD to be her plan. The question is: was she smokey from the hieroglyphs? She was prob smokey in the form of a woman the whole time Jacob and MIB were growing up. The hieroglyphs and that statue are pre A.D. I am going off another post where someone said Claudia’s shipwreck was 43 A.D. (I believe). Anyway, I think crazy-chick was smokey prior and she planned the whole shotin’ match. Ideas???[/quote]

    I think we all agree on the chain of events and it was a Smokey rampage. The debate is whether Mother was the Smoke Monster, she summoned Smokey or Smokey is a separate entity. I don’t know which is right but I think Mother was the Smoke. It’s very confusing. Everyone’s theories on the subject are so good.

    I have no idea where the 43AD came from. That wasn’t in the episode. I believe it was at least 2000 years ago more or less. If the statue was already built, which it probably was, it wasn’t near the caves where the brothers lived. Sayid, Sun and Jin saw the foot from the sailboat when they were trying to rescue Jack, Kate and Sawyer from the Others and it was north of them.

  399. Belle says:

    OK please bear with me here. This conversation means so much more to me now.

    Desmond at the Monastery

    Brother: God tests our faith in many ways as you well know. We have our own test here. (at the Monastery) For whatever reason your path led you here, now you’re one of us. Welcome, brother.

    Desmond: Thank you…. brother.

    Desmond is getting drunk on the Monastery wine called Moriah.

    Desmond- Moriah is the mountain where Abraham was asked to kill Isaac.

    Brother: And yet God spared Issac.

    Desmond: Well, one might argue that God need not have asked Abraham to sacrifice his son in the first place.

    Brother: Then it wouldn’t have been much of a test would it brother? Perhaps you underestimate the value of sacrifice.

    Desmond goes to see his ex-fiance Ruth

    Ruth: It was a week before the wedding and you disappeared completely.

    Desmond: I had a calling. I had a few too many pints… I raised my eyes and asked, am I doing the right thing? That’s the last thing I remember. When I woke up I was lying on my back in the street and I don’t know how I got there. There was a man standing over me and he reached out his hand to me and said, can I help you brother? I looked at him and I knew, I knew I was supposed to go with him. I was supposed to leave everything that mattered behind. Sacrifice all of it for a greater calling.

    Brother: The Abbey isn’t where you were supposed to end up. I have little doubt that God has different plans rather than you being a monk, Desmond. Bigger plans. You’ve spent too much time running away to realize what you may be running toward.

    Oh Desmond. What is he going to have to sacrifice? Wasn’t 3 years in the hatch enough?

  400. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374565"]OK please bear with me here. This conversation means so much more to me now.

    Desmond at the Monastery

    Brother: God tests our faith in many ways as you well know. We have our own test here. (at the Monastery) For whatever reason your path led you here, now you’re one of us. Welcome, brother.

    Desmond: Thank you…. brother.

    Desmond is getting drunk on the Monastery wine

    called Moriah.

    Desmond- Moriah is the mountain where Abraham was asked to kill Isaac.

    Brother: And yet God spared Issac.

    Desmond: Well, one might argue that God need not have asked Abraham to sacrifice his son in the first place.

    Brother: Then it wouldn’t have been much of a test would it brother? Perhaps you underestimate the value of sacrifice.

    Desmond goes to see his ex-fiance Ruth

    Ruth: It was a week before the wedding and you disappeared completely.

    Desmond: I had a calling. I had a few too many pints… I raised my eyes and asked, am I doing the right thing? That’s the last thing I remember. When I woke up I was lying on my back in the street and I don’t know how I got there. There was a man standing over me and he reached out his hand to me and said, can I help you brother? I looked at him and I knew, I knew I was supposed to go with him. I was supposed to leave everything that mattered behind. Sacrifice all of it for a greater calling.

    Brother: The Abbey isn’t where you were supposed to end up. I have little doubt that God has different plans rather than you being a monk, Desmond. Bigger plans. You’ve spent too much time running away to realize what you may be running toward.

    Oh Desmond. What is he going to have to sacrifice? Wasn’t 3 years in the hatch enough?[/quote]
    Desmond is definitely a major part. I think he just may be the guy. I mean I wouldn’t be disappointed. I keep hearing a lot of people say Jack or maybe even Richard. Obviously the flashbacks of Locke tested by Richard way before the crash are CRAZY!! And the fact that Locke got such a huge gift from the Island after the crash…again CRAZY. So you would think Locke, Jack, or maybe even Richard, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Des was the one chosen.

    By the way, any ideas out there now that this is almost over, how can Walt communicate to people on the Island like the whisperers can. The whisperers are ghosts. So how can he communicate like he did to Locke after Ben shot Locke?

  401. wally p says:

    [quote comment="374566"][quote comment="374565"]OK please bear with me here. This conversation means so much more to me now.

    Desmond at the Monastery

    Brother: God tests our faith in many ways as you well know. We have our own test here. (at the Monastery) For whatever reason your path led you here, now you’re one of us. Welcome, brother.

    Desmond: Thank you…. brother.

    Desmond is getting drunk on the Monastery wine

    called Moriah.

    Desmond- Moriah is the mountain where Abraham was asked to kill Isaac.

    Brother: And yet God spared Issac.

    Desmond: Well, one might argue that God need not have asked Abraham to sacrifice his son in the first place.

    Brother: Then it wouldn’t have been much of a test would it brother? Perhaps you underestimate the value of sacrifice.

    Desmond goes to see his ex-fiance Ruth

    Ruth: It was a week before the wedding and you disappeared completely.

    Desmond: I had a calling. I had a few too many pints… I raised my eyes and asked, am I doing the right thing? That’s the last thing I remember. When I woke up I was lying on my back in the street and I don’t know how I got there. There was a man standing over me and he reached out his hand to me and said, can I help you brother? I looked at him and I knew, I knew I was supposed to go with him. I was supposed to leave everything that mattered behind. Sacrifice all of it for a greater calling.

    Brother: The Abbey isn’t where you were supposed to end up. I have little doubt that God has different plans rather than you being a monk, Desmond. Bigger plans. You’ve spent too much time running away to realize what you may be running toward.

    Oh Desmond. What is he going to have to sacrifice? Wasn’t 3 years in the hatch enough?[/quote]
    Desmond is definitely a major part. I think he just may be the guy. I mean I wouldn’t be disappointed. I keep hearing a lot of people say Jack or maybe even Richard. Obviously the flashbacks of Locke tested by Richard way before the crash are CRAZY!! And the fact that Locke got such a huge gift from the Island after the crash…again CRAZY. So you would think Locke, Jack, or maybe even Richard, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Des was the one chosen.

    By the way, any ideas out there now that this is almost over, how can Walt communicate to people on the Island like the whisperers can. The whisperers are ghosts. So how can he communicate like he did to Locke after Ben shot Locke?[/quote]

    I’m saying that Walt being special is the same as MIB being special, and maybe the reason Walt was asked to leave the island was because of his communion with it… the smoke wants his soul..)

  402. 4 8 15 16 23 42 says:

    I was thinking about Richard visiting Locke when Locke was a boy. He asks Locke which items are his, and there is the drawing of the smoke monster and everything. If Richard can leave the island, then can he really be the next protector? Perhaps either Jacob or Richard has to be on the island.

  403. LizS says:

    A point–though Jacob offered Richard the cup of wine, and R held it through their whole conversation on the beach, R didn’t drink from it. Or we didn’t see him drink at least.

  404. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374568"]I was thinking about Richard visiting Locke when Locke was a boy. He asks Locke which items are his, and there is the drawing of the smoke monster and everything. If Richard can leave the island, then can he really be the next protector? Perhaps either Jacob or Richard has to be on the island.[/quote]
    The picture young Locke colored is really interesting. Walt had some really interesting things happen to him as well. Like the thing with the bird at his step-dads house. Also BIB was told he was special by crazy-chick. Don’t know if there is a connection at all, but I do think Ben got Walt off the Island with the quickness. Are we to assume this was Jacob’s request?

  405. Belle says:

    We also have several generations of SHEPHARDS. Jack took the lead after the plane crash and the people looked to him as the Leader. Jacob and Jack both didn’t want the role placed upon them but rose to the challenge.

    Then there’s Jack and John. (Jack is often used as a nickname for John) How many times did John try to take over the leadership position?

  406. mikemarks says:

    [quote comment="374571"]We also have several generations of SHEPHARDS. Jack took the lead after the plane crash and the people looked to him as the Leader. Jacob and Jack both didn’t want the role placed upon them but rose to the challenge.

    Then there’s Jack and John. (Jack is often used as a nickname for John) How many times did John try to take over the leadership position?[/quote]
    Jack/John nickname coincident… cool observation

  407. way_lost says:

    [quote comment="374571"]We also have several generations of SHEPHARDS. Jack took the lead after the plane crash and the people looked to him as the Leader. Jacob and Jack both didn’t want the role placed upon them but rose to the challenge.

    Then there’s Jack and John. (Jack is often used as a nickname for John) How many times did John try to take over the leadership position?[/quote]
    Yeah Aaron has to be raised by Claire. That makes me believe the FSW is going to be the real ending. Desmond is going to have everybody remembering stuff and everybody will live happily ever after. Yuck!

  408. mikemarks says:

    I am going crazy… how else would you describe a grown man addicted to the comment boards? Its the weekend, I can’t go out, I need to be close to my computer, all I want to think about or talk about is Lost, everything else, every place else is boring me…btw, whoever’s in charge of this board, do you know half your links are deadends…

  409. RGS says:

    Not to throw another inconsistency out there, but I’ve seen quite a few people talking about the wine. We saw the f-mom/witch mutter an incantation before giving it to Jacob, but was that really necessary? I mean if the wine was that important, why does Jacob give it to MIB (who subsequently breaks it) if he would need it to do a chant and pass his protective power on to the next?

  410. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374575"]I am going crazy… how else would you describe a grown man addicted to the comment boards? Its the weekend, I can’t go out, I need to be close to my computer, all I want to think about or talk about is Lost, everything else, every place else is boring me…btw, whoever’s in charge of this board, do you know half your links are deadends…[/quote]

    You are not alone. heehee

    I know I’m not the only one that noticed that Claudia only picked one name. What if it had been a girl? There weren’t any ultra-sounds back then. After nameless was born she asked “Can I see him?” not can I see them. I found that odd.

  411. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374576"]Not to throw another inconsistency out there, but I’ve seen quite a few people talking about the wine. We saw the f-mom/witch mutter an incantation before giving it to Jacob, but was that really necessary? I mean if the wine was that important, why does Jacob give it to MIB (who subsequently breaks it) if he would need it to do a chant and pass his protective power on to the next?[/quote]

    Maybe the wine or the chant doesn’t even matter. It could just be a ritual and once you’ve agreed the deal is sealed. Did Mother teach Jacob Latin or does all that come to you once you’re the Protector? Maybe she said “Oh great bright light, I found the next fool. I’m outta here.” Jacob probably didn’t understand a word she was saying. :(

  412. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374517"]I’ve just rewatched “across the sea” and noticed a few things.

    Also in the episode, fake mom tells Jacob that BIB can leave because ‘that was his choice.’

    BIB’s people WERE burned because he screamed it to jacob before being thrown into the light.

    Lastly, why is MIB stuck as john locke?[/quote]

    It is weird that Mother said that because then she blatantly lies to Jacob and tells him that he DOESN”T have a choice concerning protecting the light. The show has always been about having a choice.

    Exactly. Why would MIB be so upset at the huts being burned.

    MIB being stuck in Locke’s form is because Jacob is dead.

  413. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374481"]At first we thought the Others had all the answers, especially Ben, then found out he knew little… then we thought Richard had all the answers, again, he knew little, Illana, and so on,… now we find out that Jacob and his brother werent even from the beginning and probably dont have all the answers…[/quote]

    Ben, Richard and the Others knew just about everything except what to do after Jacob was killed. They had files on everyone on the island and those they wanted to recruit such as Juliet. They knew all about Dharma and the different stations (thanks to Ben) and how to get on and off the island. Ben knew about the Frozen Donkey Wheel and obviously had been there before. They knew about the Healing Pool at the Temple and using the ashes. Jacob’s death threw everything into turmoil. Jacob and his brother didn’t know much at all in the beginning because Mother didn’t tell them. Over the years they learned or were enlightened.

  414. Belle says:

    I think MIB would have gone into the light source on his own if he was able to find it again. When Mother took the boys there for the first time, both of them looked awestruck at the sight but BIB more so. He said how beautiful it was and looked absolutely delighted. For some reason in this episode I noticed all the red (meaning death?) Claudia’s dress, the blood on the tree and the red flowers next to BIB. I remember those same flowers in a field Mr. Eko was in right before he met the ghost (MIB) of Yemi. I know in The Sixth Sense there were red things everywhere. Furthermore, when Jacob dragged him back there, I get the feeling if Jacob hadn’t thrown him in the water, MIB would have dove in there himself.

  415. Shea says:

    1) Why is MIB/smokey killing everyone? To leave the island, smokey/Bloke must kill off all the candidates, which is why smokey stormed off to go find and kill Desmond, the last surviving candidate (or so he thought). He is very clear — he MUST kill them.

    2) Why MUST Smokey kill off everyone? I liked the yin/yang theory, that smokey is darkness/evil, and the light is goodness, and that they need each other, that there is no Light/goodness without evil, that both live in that cave/pool. It could also be that Light inhabits people on this island just as people say that God /Goodness is inside us, and that darkness/ the devil inhabits people’s souls. Taking that a step further, think of a cell with positive and negative forces. Each makes the other go round. Their opposite natures attract. If you remove all the candidates to “protect” the Light, if goodness has no one to inhabit on this island, then darkness/evil is free to run rampant on this earth. Heavy, huh?

    3) What happens at the end? Jack becomes the candidate, and the others leave? Claire will certainly be psycho. Will any woman stay with Jack? Or does he become like Jacob, attracting more souls to the island, souls in need of redemption — so that Jack can leave?

    Or is Desmond — and Penny, the daughter of a former candidate — the new Jacob?

    I think the writers have been clear that they want finality to their storyline. If that is true, then you can’t have Jack replace Jacob (notice how close the names are!!), you have to break the cycle. That means no one becomes the candidate, that the island then implodes or disappears into the ocean, and the characters as they leave the island actually recognize and say that goodness and evil exist in all of us, that they will take parts of the island with them forever.

    No, these writers do not like to be that clear. Finality — yes. Clarity — no.

    So, do they go for the mysterious/ non-ending ending, like “The Sopranos”? This leaves open the possibility of movie sequels.

    Hmm. More money or complete, total finality?

    Which will it be?

    I think Jack, the heroic victim that he is, turns the wheel as all his buddies leave the island, and the island disappears — and the alternate reality becomes permanent. This actually leaves open the possibility that at some point in a couple of years, someone does a movie sequel because …

    Greed is good !!!!!!! We need greed to make the world spin round!

    And Jack becomes Jacob, attracting a new cast to the island — as Jack becomes like Jacob, sometimes killing, sometimes merciful and good.

  416. LOst-heartandminds says:

    WE love lost and the show is sadly but excitingly nearing an END so what now? I thought i’d watch FlashFoward it has so much potiential and i thought by season 2 they would be recieving emmy nods. The show not only is filled with SciFi Mystery but it has top notch acting and some of the Lost aactor Alumi that we know,love,and miss add to this top notch Acting: Mr. Dominic monaghan and the lovely Sonya Wagler they give wonderful performances. Sadly the abc network that we are well acquainted with are on their way of canceling this beloved show of mine and many other lost fans.
    There are strenght in numbers so im calling all lost fan of the community that ive been apart of for years now please support and petition for this show to stay on the air by signing a petition @ http://www.petitiononline.com/47110815/petition.html and or by joining the Save Flash foward facebook page ! please help.

    If you dont watch the show you should its great so why not save Penny for desmond and support her show along with charlie who died that fateful day in the looking glass trying to save aaron and claire! For Dominic monaghan and Sonya Wagler save Flashfoward save their jobs! Thankyou. Goodfortune to you and Namaste

  417. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374586"]WE love lost and the show is sadly but excitingly nearing an END so what now? I thought i’d watch FlashFoward it has so much potiential and i thought by season 2 they would be recieving emmy nods. The show not only is filled with SciFi Mystery but it has top notch acting and some of the Lost aactor Alumi that we know,love,and miss add to this top notch Acting: Mr. Dominic monaghan and the lovely Sonya Wagler they give wonderful performances. Sadly the abc network that we are well acquainted with are on their way of canceling this beloved show of mine and many other lost fans.
    There are strenght in numbers so im calling all lost fan of the community that ive been apart of for years now please support and petition for this show to stay on the air by signing a petition @ http://www.petitiononline.com/47110815/petition.html

    and or by joining the Save Flash foward facebook page ! please help.

    If you dont watch the show you should its great so why not save Penny for desmond and support her show along with charlie who died that fateful day in the looking glass trying to save aaron and claire! For Dominic monaghan and Sonya Wagler save Flashfoward save their jobs! Thankyou. Goodfortune to you and Namaste[/quote]

    Nice pitch for Flash Forward. :)The petition says “after one episode”. You might want to change that. I like Flash Forward too. Most of the time they cancel the type of shows we enjoy. Very frustrating.

  418. LOst-heartandminds says:

    [quote comment="374587"][quote comment="374586"]WE love lost and the show is sadly but excitingly nearing an END so what now? I thought i’d watch FlashFoward it has so much potiential and i thought by season 2 they would be recieving emmy nods. The show not only is filled with SciFi Mystery but it has top notch acting and some of the Lost aactor Alumi that we know,love,and miss add to this top notch Acting: Mr. Dominic monaghan and the lovely Sonya Wagler they give wonderful performances. Sadly the abc network that we are well acquainted with are on their way of canceling this beloved show of mine and many other lost fans.
    There are strenght in numbers so im calling all lost fan of the community that ive been apart of for years now please support and petition for this show to stay on the air by signing a petition @ http://www.petitiononline.com/47110815/petition.html

    and or by joining the Save Flash foward facebook page ! please help.

    If you dont watch the show you should its great so why not save Penny for desmond and support her show along with charlie who died that fateful day in the looking glass trying to save aaron and claire! For Dominic monaghan and Sonya Wagler save Flashfoward save their jobs! Thankyou. Goodfortune to you and Namaste[/quote]

    Nice pitch for Flash Forward. :)The petition says “after one episode”. You might want to change that. I like Flash Forward too. Most of the time they cancel the type of shows we enjoy. Very frustrating.[/quote]
    ………
    Yes very thanks for pointing that out i found the petition page today and i did not read that i will try to find the petition authour and get that change.
    But yes thanks and try to get the word around remember there is strength in numbers and after lost i need my scifi fix and flashfoward has given me that.

  419. Aonghus Fallon says:

    Two guys on a beach. Neither is what he appears to be. And one brother is impersonating the other, and has been doing so for a very, very long time….

  420. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374588"][quote comment="374587"][quote comment="374586"]WE love lost and the show is sadly but excitingly nearing an END so what now? I thought i’d watch FlashFoward it has so much potiential and i thought by season 2 they would be recieving emmy nods. The show not only is filled with SciFi Mystery but it has top notch acting and some of the Lost aactor Alumi that we know,love,and miss add to this top notch Acting: Mr. Dominic monaghan and the lovely Sonya Wagler they give wonderful performances. Sadly the abc network that we are well acquainted with are on their way of canceling this beloved show of mine and many other lost fans.
    There are strenght in numbers so im calling all lost fan of the community that ive been apart of for years now please support and petition for this show to stay on the air by signing a petition @ http://www.petitiononline.com/47110815/petition.html

    and or by joining the Save Flash foward facebook page ! please help.

    If you dont watch the show you should its great so why not save Penny for desmond and support her show along with charlie who died that fateful day in the looking glass trying to save aaron and claire! For Dominic monaghan and Sonya Wagler save Flashfoward save their jobs! Thankyou. Goodfortune to you and Namaste[/quote]

    Nice pitch for Flash Forward. :)The petition says “after one episode”. You might want to change that. I like Flash Forward too. Most of the time they cancel the type of shows we enjoy. Very frustrating.[/quote]
    ………
    Yes very thanks for pointing that out i found the petition page today and i did not read that i will try to find the petition authour and get that change.
    But yes thanks and try to get the word around remember there is strength in numbers and after lost i need my scifi fix and flashfoward has given me that.[/quote]

    Flashfoward sucks. Just do a basic google search/ wiki that shiittee and you will find the ending. As in its just a rip-off err remake. Thast what made L O S T so special it was “new” in an era of recycled cuap/junk.

  421. Hammer says:

    Random thought…the ‘light’ in the tunnel…fire?

    If the island is sunk (which it is in FSW), wouldn’t that put out the light/fire? I still think MIB succeeds and then the FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.

  422. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374594"]Random thought…the ‘light’ in the tunnel…fire?

    If the island is sunk (which it is in FSW), wouldn’t that put out the light/fire? I still think MIB succeeds and then the FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.[/quote]

    what do you mean by “FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.”

  423. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374588"][quote comment="374587"][quote comment="374586"]

    [/quote]

    [/quote]
    ………
    Yes very thanks for pointing that out i found the petition page today and i did not read that i will try to find the petition authour and get that change.
    But yes thanks and try to get the word around remember there is strength in numbers and after lost i need my scifi fix and flashfoward has given me that.[/quote]

    The last few years there hasn’t been much of anything for we Sci-fi fans. There isn’t as much pressure about ratings for shows that aren’t on the major networks. As long as there’s a decent amount of people watching the show usually stays on for awhile. It really stinks.

  424. Belle says:

    [quote comment="374593"][quote comment="374588"][quote comment="374587"][quote comment="374586"]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    Flashfoward sucks. Just do a basic google search/ wiki that shiittee and you will find the ending. As in its just a rip-off err remake. Thast what made L O S T so special it was “new” in an era of recycled cuap/junk.[/quote]

    Well FlashForward isn’t LOST but I’d watch that over most of the drivel on TV. It’s so obvious a lot of shows have ripped-off LOST. Heroes was one of the first with more to follow.

  425. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374597"][quote comment="374588"][quote comment="374587"][quote comment="374586"]

    [/quote]

    [/quote]
    ………
    Yes very thanks for pointing that out i found the petition page today and i did not read that i will try to find the petition authour and get that change.
    But yes thanks and try to get the word around remember there is strength in numbers and after lost i need my scifi fix and flashfoward has given me that.[/quote]

    The last few years there hasn’t been much of anything for we Sci-fi fans. There isn’t as much pressure about ratings for shows that aren’t on the major networks. As long as there’s a decent amount of people watching the show usually stays on for awhile. It really stinks.[/quote]

    good point. I guess there really hasn’t been a good sci-fi show in a while. sometimes i forget LOST is technically a sci-fi show even though it is so character driven. It just sells it so well. I mean Des could tell me the sky is black and I would believe him…

  426. Hammer says:

    [quote comment="374595"][quote comment="374594"]Random thought…the ‘light’ in the tunnel…fire?

    If the island is sunk (which it is in FSW), wouldn’t that put out the light/fire? I still think MIB succeeds and then the FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.[/quote]

    what do you mean by “FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.”[/quote]
    I mean that I think by changing the past, they have allowed MIB to execute his loophole which eventually leads to the sinking of the island(a bad thing, the light will go out). Since course correction is a theme, I think that the FSW folks will ‘remember’ the original timeline and eventually come together and find a way to course correct and fix whatever the consequences are of changing the past.

  427. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374600"][quote comment="374595"][quote comment="374594"]Random thought…the ‘light’ in the tunnel…fire?

    If the island is sunk (which it is in FSW), wouldn’t that put out the light/fire? I still think MIB succeeds and then the FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.[/quote]

    what do you mean by “FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.”[/quote]
    I mean that I think by changing the past, they have allowed MIB to execute his loophole which eventually leads to the sinking of the island(a bad thing, the light will go out). Since course correction is a theme, I think that the FSW folks will ‘remember’ the original timeline and eventually come together and find a way to course correct and fix whatever the consequences are of changing the past.[/quote]

    Now that makes sense. So do you believe SMOKEY and/or MIB is in the FSW? Could he be FSWLocke? or maybe we havn’t seen him…

    I especially like this idea given Eloise’s (Faradays mom) creepy warning to Des, a violation of something something…

    cant wait for tonight…

  428. Miss lost says:

    [quote comment="374600"][quote comment="374595"][quote comment="374594"]Random thought…the ‘light’ in the tunnel…fire?

    If the island is sunk (which it is in FSW), wouldn’t that put out the light/fire? I still think MIB succeeds and then the FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.[/quote]

    what do you mean by “FSW is when/where they ‘course correct/fix’ the mistake they made by changing the past which is allowing all of this to happen.”[/quote]
    I mean that I think by changing the past, they have allowed MIB to execute his loophole which eventually leads to the sinking of the island(a bad thing, the light will go out). Since course correction is a theme, I think that the FSW folks will ‘remember’ the original timeline and eventually come together and find a way to course correct and fix whatever the consequences are of changing the past.[/quote]
    **************
    which could be all getting back on the original plane that crashes on the island?

  429. Miss lost says:

    The scene with the boys learning of the light is interesting. BIB is drawn to it. Jacob seems confused by it. The mom tells them that someday it will be one of their jobs to protect it. It is something that is inside all men, but if it were to go out it would be bad.
    Jacob is later told that the light is the heart of the island. It is life, death and rebirth. She warns Jacob to NEVER go into the light.
    When MIB’s body floats down the tunnel it appears he is “reborn” as smokey…the island took his soul. It has to be MIB soul because MIB is still trying to get off the island. Did the dark consume the light already? When the smoke comes out it seems like the light is gone, but they don’t really show us the tunnel again after he comes out~so I don’t know if the light is gone. If MIB now has all of the light, is that why he cannot get off the island?
    It seems like the island itself has a good/bad element to it. (it’s own balance). The ability to heal when it wants (Locke and Rose) and the ability to harm (Ben’s tumor).
    I finally rewatched this episode and gosh I still have so many questions.

  430. wingman says:

    I don’t post much, but I just watched the ep yesterday and had to get this out my system…I tried to have faith in this show. Even when I saw some of it ripping apart before me I still had some faith that they would pull it off, but after this episode my faith is finally broken.

    “The light is in all of us” or whatever Juno’s mom said has got to be a joke….I waited 6 years to find out the heart of the island is a shining light that’s inside all of us? Am I watching Xena Warrior Princess? The whole Adam and Eve scene was retconned aswell…Jack said those bodies had been there for 40-50 years in Season 1, and even if that wasn’t true and you wanna say the time elements of the island preserved them that’s still an extra 2, 3, 4, 500 years they had to decompose. All we found out in this episode is that Zac Efron Jr. a.k.a. Kid Smokey was used and abused by his idiot Mom and his even more pathetic and juvenile brother Jacob. Why would anyone ever follow this absolute goober? More questions from characters we don’t even know. 2 episodes left and Jacob//Smokey know no more than the general audience. There is no redemption left. I’ll watch the rest obviously since it just has to be done, but I’m bitterly disappointed with what was shown on the episode Darlton has been clamoring over for the last 5 years that they’ve been waiting to write…This would be the episode that proved they planned everything. Wow, just wow…I’m sorry LOST fans. This is coming from a friend and devote follower of this show for 6 years, we have been TROLLED! Yeah Supermom killed a whole village of warriors too. Sighs…

  431. wingman says:

    Just wanted to add (In reference to the age of those bodies when Jack found them in the cave)that the time elements didn’t preserve Yemi’s or Ben’s dad’s remains… SO that scene was retconned…

  432. Miraks says:

    [quote comment="374605"]Just wanted to add (In reference to the age of those bodies when Jack found them in the cave)that the time elements didn’t preserve Yemi’s or Ben’s dad’s remains… SO that scene was retconned…[/quote]

    I agree. Jack had said 40-50 years based on the condition of the clothes. There is absolutely NO way there would be any cloth fibers left after one to two thousand YEARS- Or a bag with stones. Also, in 2007 interview L&C claimed that there were easter eggs in the Not in Portland episode to who Adam and Eve were. Considering that we didn’t even know Jacob at that time, much less MIB or crazy mom, I just don’t see it. I think that they might have originally planned on A&E to be two of the losties, but just ended up changing it.

  433. Jake328 says:

    [quote comment="374604"] Why would anyone ever follow this absolute goober? [/quote]

    Goober? Really?

  434. wally p says:

    [quote comment="374606"][quote comment="374605"]Just wanted to add (In reference to the age of those bodies when Jack found them in the cave)that the time elements didn’t preserve Yemi’s or Ben’s dad’s remains… SO that scene was retconned…[/quote]

    I agree. Jack had said 40-50 years based on the condition of the clothes. There is absolutely NO way there would be any cloth fibers left after one to two thousand YEARS- Or a bag with stones. Also, in 2007 interview L&C claimed that there were easter eggs in the Not in Portland episode to who Adam and Eve were. Considering that we didn’t even know Jacob at that time, much less MIB or crazy mom, I just don’t see it. I think that they might have originally planned on A&E to be two of the losties, but just ended up changing it.[/quote]

    what were the easter eggs of then? I’ve never watched the DVDs.

  435. La Vie says:

    [quote comment="374606"][quote comment="374605"]Just wanted to add (In reference to the age of those bodies when Jack found them in the cave)that the time elements didn’t preserve Yemi’s or Ben’s dad’s remains… SO that scene was retconned…[/quote]

    I agree. Jack had said 40-50 years based on the condition of the clothes. There is absolutely NO way there would be any cloth fibers left after one to two thousand YEARS- Or a bag with stones. Also, in 2007 interview L&C claimed that there were easter eggs in the Not in Portland episode to who Adam and Eve were. Considering that we didn’t even know Jacob at that time, much less MIB or crazy mom, I just don’t see it. I think that they might have originally planned on A&E to be two of the losties, but just ended up changing it.[/quote]

    Jack technically said AT LEAST 50 years old. And he is NO forensic scientist or carbon dating expert.

    LOST is what it is a character intensive study on human behavior. Redemption and the grey area between good and evil. Focus on the elements that kept you watching for 6 seasons.

    In my opinion the whole MIB/Jacob back-story was done brilliantly and here is why; you get a sense of what the island mythology IS without having it fully explained. Who is to say that EVERYTHING fMOM said was a lie? Who is to say (and probably is true) there were not 500/multiple versions of fMOMS’s and Jacobs?

    There are still over three hours left in the show. Everything can change so let us stop wining sit back and enjoy this (once in a lifetime?) tv/entertainment event.

    The more questions I answer will only produce more questions

  436. Marcos says:

    In honor of the end of Lost, I wanted to share this infographic with you that shows the castaways’ time travel, arrivals, and departures. Enjoy! http://ow.ly/1MgoS

  437. wingman says:

    La Vie, I am sorry…I can no longer suppress my intelligence to eat this stuff up…I will always be grateful for the great moments and character interactions that took place in various seasons…I will always be in awe of Micheal Emerson , Terry O’quinn’s, and others’ masterful acting throughout, but I no longer have faith in Darlton…They use the mythology of the show to hide behind their slick writing tactics…It’s been clear to me for a while but I stuck with it because I had faith in the fact that this was the ep they said they couldn’t wait to write (And obviously to see how it turned out). I can’t believe an unexplainable cave-light that’s in all of us was their brilliant plan all along (Even if that’s not what it is, to present it like this is so B-movie)…Jacob should be listening to Hurley not the other way around, this episode exposes him big time as a phony of epic proportions…Only thing is I hope now that the Smoke Monster wins, cause God he deserves it…3 hours are left that’s for sure…More than enough time to retcon so much more…My faith has been shaken, but I’m not ready to turn to the dark-side, hater-site side, I just had to be true to myself and the true LOST fans that in a lot of ways we’ve been had…I don’t know what else to say…

  438. Brer says:

    [quote comment="374611"]La Vie, I am sorry…I can no longer suppress my intelligence to eat this stuff up…I will always be grateful for the great moments and character interactions that took place in various seasons…I will always be in awe of Micheal Emerson , Terry O’quinn’s, and others’ masterful acting throughout, but I no longer have faith in Darlton…They use the mythology of the show to hide behind their slick writing tactics…It’s been clear to me for a while but I stuck with it because I had faith in the fact that this was the ep they said they couldn’t wait to write (And obviously to see how it turned out). I can’t believe an unexplainable cave-light that’s in all of us was their brilliant plan all along (Even if that’s not what it is, to present it like this is so B-movie)…Jacob should be listening to Hurley not the other way around, this episode exposes him big time as a phony of epic proportions…Only thing is I hope now that the Smoke Monster wins, cause God he deserves it…3 hours are left that’s for sure…More than enough time to retcon so much more…My faith has been shaken, but I’m not ready to turn to the dark-side, hater-site side, I just had to be true to myself and the true LOST fans that in a lot of ways we’ve been had…I don’t know what else to say…[/quote]

    I got to agree with you.. as of now. then again they’ve pulled off some amazing stuff in other seasons so I’m holding out hope but preparing for dissapointment

  439. RODNEY says:

    ACROSS THE SEA showed that Jacob is just a clueless idiot, who has no answers for anything. And it shows that he is nothing but a momma’s boy who is runs to tell his fake mom everything on his younger twin brother, and who shows constant violence towards his younger twin brother when his twin never raises a hand to strike him. Jacob is just some stupid loser.

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