Six seasons/years later, tonight is the conclusion of what is without a doubt one of the greatest television series of all time. Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this blog over the years, it has been fun engaging in and facilitating dialogue around this show. Tuesday’s episode set-up the finale quite nicely. Suprising no one, Jack emerged has Jacob’s successor. Though expected, it was still a great moment to witness in the development of the character. No less meaningful was the dialogue he had with Sawyer throughout the episode – Jack would not let Sawyer believe he was the cause of death for their friends. Regardless of what happens tonight, I am sure the finale will spark passionate debate amongst Lost fans. I am looking forward to it.
Synopsis
“One of the most critically-acclaimed and groundbreaking shows of the past decade concludes in this “Lost” Series Finale Event. The battle lines are drawn as Locke puts his plan into action, which could finally liberate him from the island.”
Thanks Will.
CANT.. STAND… IT.. bracing myself for the adrenaline rush….
Yes, thank you soooo much!!!
So excited, and so nervous. Got my white rock and my black rock sitting in front of the TV–ready! Wishing everyone thrills and chills, aha’s, oh-no’s, and say-what’s–ENOUGH answers, and a happy ending! OK, a fitting ending– And here’s hoping for greatness!!!!
To Will and those who came before him, thank you SO much for providing a spoiler-free arena for discussing our favorite show.
: ) P
Thanks to the hosts of this blog, providing such a cool format with photos every episode… thanks to all the bloggers out there who shared their theories over the years! Going to this website is half the fun of LOST and I will miss this show greatly. LOST changed television history and for the first time made the viewers THINK and theorize. Thanks to the creators of LOST and the unbelievable actors (Ben & Locke) you have engulfed us in this world and I will be forever grateful to you for the years of entertainment, laughs, action, drama and mystery.
OK, now on with the show!!!!!!
Echoing thanks — to this blog for providing a place that I could meet with my LOST geeks.. I mean friends. Thanks for giving me something to think about each week. I’ll miss the comraderie, and of course, this terrific show.
I’m getting ready for not getting many of the things I thought were important answered. I hope the Man in Black explains why he killed Eko. Also, I hope you fellow fans find this funny.
http://www.superficialgallery.com/sunday-funnies-lost-edition/9903
It’s like Superbowl Sunday for dorks! I can’t wait. Pre-game at 7, kick off at 9. I think that this season has been great. I’ve enjoyed watching this show become more and more sci-fi. I’m sure that there will be some haters on here after tonight’s finale, but that’s ok. Personally, I’m gonna need a few days to process whatever happens tonight but I’m sure it will be great. These guys aren’t going to drop the ball on the last episode, although that would be a crazy twist to end the show with.
Man I’m feeling nostalgic. As much as I am looking forward to the final episode, I don’t want the show to be over yet. I will miss the show, the peole on this blog, and having something worthwhile and smart to look forward to on tv every week.
[quote comment="374987"]Thanks to the hosts of this blog, providing such a cool format with photos every episode… thanks to all the bloggers out there who shared their theories over the years! Going to this website is half the fun of LOST and I will miss this show greatly. LOST changed television history and for the first time made the viewers THINK and theorize. Thanks to the creators of LOST and the unbelievable actors (Ben & Locke) you have engulfed us in this world and I will be forever grateful to you for the years of entertainment, laughs, action, drama and mystery.
OK, now on with the show!!!!!![/quote]
A SHOUT OUT OF THANKS FROM ME TOO.
Very well said Mateo! I feel so excited and sad at the same time. Make sure you have your Kleenex ready. There’s been so many great theories and discussions from everyone. This is truly a phenomenal once in a lifetime show AND experience. Thank you!!!
Hey guys, I just found this really funny web series “LOST at da Jersey Shore.” Oceanic Flight 815 crashes at the Jersey Shore and the guido’s are ‘The Others.” Ha check it out http://www.youtube.com/lostatdajerseyshore
In addition to thanking Will, Nick and the gang for keeping this site alive for us, I want to also thank the creator. Andreas Climent is very talented young man that had to let this site go to attend to his artistic dreams.
Check him out. http://www.andreascliment.com
Hammer, how are you going to fill all your time now? Play Evony?
[quote comment="374998"]Hammer, how are you going to fill all your time now? Play Evony?[/quote]
Lol…I will truley be lost. Six years of hobby cut off cold turkey….man o man.
I have been coming here since the beginning of Season 2 and I absolutely loved this place for so long. Thanks to those who created it and those who have been here for so long. I loved all the ideas and theories that people have thrown out and even in the bad times when everyone was bickering. HA! Here is to LOST tonight!!
Noooooooooo!!!!!! I refuse to beleive it
I hope the world ends when this episode’s over so I wont have to face the world without LOST.
LOST For Dummies – by Tarzan
Tarzan not make worry for future of magic island.
Tarzan make recent job application to be island protector … http://tinyurl.com/TarzanApp
Tarzan sure will be select for position. Doctor name Jack not have Tarzan people skills.
Tarzan see island magic man Jacob tell secret to Doctor name Jack, then drink from secret creek.
Tarzan also know big secret about creek. That creek is run-off water from Tarzan outhouse and science camp septic system.
Tarzan sure Doctor name Jack will feel very different — very soon.
Science Sheriff name Sawyer make next best choice for island protector, after Tarzan. Tarzan think Tarzan make him new deputy protector. (only give one bullet though)
Tarzan also re-hire nice man name Hurley. He take old science position as ‘chef’ — make island people eat healthy and much laughing.
Tarzan not hire help from skinny brown hair girl name Kate. No value added to island happiness.
Tarzan also need new help guard island. Tarzan think ask marry peoples name Rose and Bernard to run island retirement camp on North shore island. Dog name Vincent hire too.
Only hire help one more. Tarzan think ask man talk ghosts name of Miles to become immortal advisor. Time immortal advisor name Richard make retirement elsewhere.
Tarzan normally not endorse island violence and sacrifice. Tarzan make exception one case… man of many faces and many tongues name of Ben.
just seen there in the recaps when desmond has a gun on locke in the hatch it showes a close up of desmonds face with a very scared expression it looks exactly like the face when locke goes to the cabin i think this means that desmond was in the cabin and will be the new jacob and jack is just a decoy.
No spoiler bullcrap. I dont even know what your talking about
[quote comment="375004"]No spoiler bullcrap. I dont even know what your talking about[/quote]
chill im just guessin not spoiling
Ive paused the guy’s face in the cabin, and it def isnt Desmond.
No need 2 make ourselves look foolish by making predictions at this point. Everyones been wrong so far.
Anyone figured out who’s really Jacob yet? Maybe Vincent? lol
Sorry dude.
Your right, Im all high strung……….. They just need to start the episode already!!!!
So excited~
I’m enjoying this recap special, but a lot of it is directed at people who have never seen the show.
One of the viewers texted in…”John Locke for President!!!!” HAHA I loved it!
[quote comment="375006"]Ive paused the guy’s face in the cabin, and it def isnt Desmond.
No need 2 make ourselves look foolish by making predictions at this point. Everyones been wrong so far.
Anyone figured out who’s really Jacob yet? Maybe Vincent? lol[/quote
Ya just see one of his eyes but it looks very similar who nos tho it could be a rouge camera man that just wandered into the scene lol
Whatver misgivings I’ve had about this season, I still can’t wait to see how it all plays out…I hope that in the end that I can smile…Good Luck Losties I hope we get what we need…
I havent read the blogs yet, but wanted to post my fina’le…..Theyre all been dead since the crash. The one by one deaths were actually the victums’ realization that they were dead. The remaining souls hav yet to come to terms w/ their demise.
10 min the butterflies are massing!
I have a feeling Aaron and JiYung<—-Sp? are going 2B of significance. (at least I hope)
[quote comment="375013"]I havent read the blogs yet, but wanted to post my fina’le…..Theyre all been dead since the crash. The one by one deaths were actually the victums’ realization that they were dead. The remaining souls hav yet to come to terms w/ their demise.[/quote]
i think your way off the mark here buddy
yall are all way to into this. im glad it’s over so yall can finally get lives
[quote comment="375015"]I have a feeling Aaron and JiYung<—-Sp? are going 2B of significance. (at least I hope)[/quote]
sp?
The sp is for spelling.
smoodogg is a fag, in that he is, in fact, a bundle of sticks.
Once LOST is over, there will be no need to get lives, because life will have no meaning. Pffft!!!
[quote comment="375017"]yall are all way to into this. im glad it’s over so yall can finally get lives[/quote]
Yeah..I planned on reconnecting with some loved ones. LOL
[quote comment="375017"]yall are all way to into this. im glad it’s over so yall can finally get lives[/quote]
Snoop doggy dog is gay
yippeee!!!
just two and a half more hours and Evangeline Lilly’s acting career is over.
hallelujah!!!
what your fav ep rumples?
[quote comment="375022"]yippeee!!!
just two and a half more hours and Evangeline Lilly’s acting career is over.
hallelujah!!![/quote]
thats harsh
Thanks to Andreas for creating this blog and to Will and Nick for keeping it going. I haven’t stopped by here very regularly this season but I’ll be here tonight to see what everyone has to say.
One question, and I hope this isn’t considered a spoiler. But in tonight’s clip show, D&C stated that in order for MiB to get off the island, he/it had to kill Jacob and all the candidates first. Was that ever clearly stated in the show that that was a requirement? I think it was implied in the ep. where Jin and Sun died, but I don’t know if if was actually stated as a rule by Jacob or MiB or anyone. (this has been probably discussed here over the last few weeks, so sorry for bringin it up again)
omg i JUST got the ‘Christian Shepard’ reference!
[quote comment="375025"]Thanks to Andreas for creating this blog and to Will and Nick for keeping it going. I haven’t stopped by here very regularly this season but I’ll be here tonight to see what everyone has to say.
One question, and I hope this isn’t considered a spoiler. But in tonight’s clip show, D&C stated that in order for MiB to get off the island, he/it had to kill Jacob and all the candidates first. Was that ever clearly stated in the show that that was a requirement? I think it was implied in the ep. where Jin and Sun died, but I don’t know if if was actually stated as a rule by Jacob or MiB or anyone. (this has been probably discussed here over the last few weeks, so sorry for bringin it up again)[/quote]
Yhea, Ive never heard that specifically stated.
Locke better not hurt Rose & Bernard
[quote comment="375028"]Locke better not hurt Rose & Bernard[/quote]
yes what would we do if anyhthing happened to them
“easy bigfoot” classic sawyer
Yeah Lapidus!!! Im so happy now!
Lupidas lives!!
So Jack is the new richard not the new jacob?
Jack the obvious choice. HAHAHAHAHA.
jack just sai “thats a supprise”….. LOVE IT!!!!
“you might want to save your bullets” hmmmmm?
In case u haven’t noticed I am a pilot!
IT’s Juliet!!!!! Hooray!!!!
I am all teary eyed from the Sun and Jin scene! It’s great how they remembered their English:)
i believe in you dude….sob
great commercial…LOL
Did u see target’s ad for smoke alerts!!
[quote comment="375042"]Did u see target’s ad for smoke alerts!![/quote]
wonder how much did smokie get for that endorsement? lol
I hope there are no more Target commercials that look like the show
They keep fooling me
Shannon is back!!
It looks like they are starting “Found” now!
Classic shot…locke and jack looking down..just like the hatch….
I love all these “shout-outs” to earlier seasons (Jack & Locke looking down the waterfall like they looked down the hatch), and to concerns expressed by the fans (Jack being the obvious choice to replace Jacob). But my favorite so far was Sayid saying “Whose rules!?” to Hurley. The urgency with which he delivered that line was great.
Exotic Matter : )
is MiB mortal now?
[quote comment="375050"]is MiB mortal now?[/quote]
I would say that is obvious, yes….
[quote comment="375050"]is MiB mortal now?[/quote]
looks that way
why do I get the feeling that kate is going to deliver claire’s baby in sideways reality
FLocke instinctively goes for his knife first thing………. like a dirtbag.
Freaking commercials!!! SOme things haven’t changed in 6 years!!!!
mib is a pussy
This is crazy. Right when all this started going down a big thunderstorm started outside.
This fight is reminding me of the Lion king when Simba kicks Mufasa’s butt!
Neck wound…..flashsideways!
perfect ending…Jack is too much of a Pus** to finish locke himself, kate had to save him.
Who else is disappointed that “Kate” shot MiB?
still more questions than answers not cool
yes duct tape comes thru again
“It worked” the vending machine trick!
Well geez…now I see why ABC extended the finale 30 minutes:(
How can they wrap this up in 10 minutes??? Aaahhh!!!!!
oh, thank God
were the lights powered by the vending machine aswell?
They didnt say, and I didnt ask, but from what I saw………
If they end up making Ben some kinda hero after all this…wow.
I haven’t gone back to find the post about a Hitler movie being filmed from his perspective…that being misunderstood, that made me laugh out loud for like 10 minutes. Good stuff.
I am disappointed with this season, but not the show overall, not in the least. Very good entertainment, but thankfully they’ve left room for improvement.
Thanks to everyone who’ve come here to share their thoughts, jokes, predictions, and failures. Can’t believe I’ve come to this blog to write about a TV show, because I’m actually a real cool dude in person, and a 3 sport athlete in high school, lol…but I digress.
That just tells me how incredible an experience this show has been. Thanks D&C for coming up with a great concept, at a great time.
Again thanks to all, as has been expressed previously, you’ve all made the LOST for me, what it ultimately was, which was a great entertainment experience.
They get jolted into remembering there other life on the island but do they remember there time before the island in the alternate reality like does sawyer now remember being a low down hustler?
Ben is going to go down as the most evil tv charater ever.
These commercials are killing me
Jack had plenty of time to get out of there.
will jack turn in to smokie?
[quote comment="375060"]perfect ending…Jack is too much of a Pus** to finish locke himself, kate had to save him.[/quote]
yea! Kate is THE woman!!!!!!
Umm….. why can’t women have children on the island? Aaron and Jiyung are not important? Walt?
What is this? Never ending cycle of some sort?
Jack died!! All died!!
Penny died? When?
Yeah…what is penny doing there?
Okay…when did all these people die?! All at different times? Was the flash sideways all about them after they died?
OMG WTF?
I don’t get it
hey can someone fill me in? my friends made me shut it off???
this is weak where did the plane go, i feel ripped off
time to let go……
Sooooo…Ok…let the theories start…..HAHAHA
I expected something different. Not this one. This is not losty way of ending things. I know fatality rate is 100% when planes crash but come on….
so where they dead the whole time????
B_R_A_V_O!!!
WTF was that
Disappointed? Yes? Reply to this post!!
Did they ever explain the numbers? i sure wish they would have
What a fucking waste of my time all of season 6
Whoa, did not see that coming…was actually one of the endings that i did not want. Dont know what to think? So, when did the rest of the people die? like hurley, sawyer, kate, etc? It seemed like they were all waiting for jack to die, but it seemed like he died before alot of the rest?
ARE YOU F’ING KIDDING ME? ARE YOU F’ING KIDDING ME? AWESOME EPISODE UNTIL THE END. IT WAS DARN NEAR PERFECT UNTIL HE WALKED INTO THAT CHURCH. THAT WAS BULL SH*T. I KNEW WE WERE IN FOR IT TOO AS SOON AS I SAW THAT STAIN GLASS WITH A MUSLIM CRESCENT, JEWISH STAR OF DAVID, CHRISTIAN CROSS, AND A YIN AND YANG. I’M PISSED. THE FIRST 2 HRS AND 2 MINS WAS UNFREAKING BELIEVABLE AND THEN THEY PULL THAT BULL SH*T ENDING ON US.
So evryone is dead but Richard, Miles and Frank ?
this was one of the theories put forward to the writers and they dismissed it what a load of bullshit was expecting something better than this
They all had their lives in “island” time, but flashsideways shows what happens when you die? “We all die someday” so even though some are dead and some arent they will all end up there?
The ending is this. What happened on the island was REAL WORLD. Everyone who died on the island died in REAL WOLD.
Sideways world was the place created by the collective psyche of the friends on lost after they died in order for them to find each other in “heaven” or the afterlife. Those who flew off the island survived in the REAL WORLD. But eventually they died too, which is why they showed up in Sideways world as well.
The end was simply them moving into the next part of the afterlife, whatever that is. And of course, Jack died in the REAL WORLD at the end.
As for what the island was, they didn’t really explain it.
I always had a nseaky feeling this was the case…but it still leaves alot of questions
People… calm. Christian said people died sooner and later, but they all came to this place. In order to “move on” they had to come together because they were at their best with each other. Still haven’t wrapped my head around everything…
For the record, while I believe in the afterlife, this end for as show that has been leading up to something amazing at the end of it was a let down.
So what about Walt? Why did Claire have to be the one to raise Aaron? Does this mean that Walt, Michael, and the Expose peeps went to Hell?
Thats the beauty of Lost, We the fans are left with a plethora of controversy and theorism, Brilliant. This will stand the test of time and live forever on the tounges of generations to come. Perfect.
What a crock of you know what! That just goes to show you that TV writers have know idea how to end a show. They only know how to keep a story going with cliffhangers after cliffhangers. I can’t believe I actually expected some closure. I am extremely dissapointed.
If this was the afterlife and they were waiting for each other to die, than why did it seem like they were waiting for jack to die. He died on the island way before people the rest would of…like the people on the plane??
well your a faggot
Exactly…was everything on the Island just a figment of their dead imaginations…or was it literally the inbewteen, and Jacob was there help guide to their aha moment(the fsw aha moemmts)??…were Jacob & MIB just 2 more ghosts??? iN which case did they really need to do any of that stuff…or did they just need to realize they were dead?
so no walt or michael… and where was frank and alpert and miles in the end church part?
haha im kidding bro to each his own
Please God someone explain this to me before I cry. I am soooo confused what did he mean they were all dead. Christian said some died before Jack and some died after…..so what was the flashside ways about….Im so very confused. Did Christian go “into the light” what did he mean they built that place so they could find each other? Like there souls could find each other?
HBO would have never fcked it up like this!
Loved Hugo’s Star Wars (Han Solo) reference – “I’ve got a bad feeling about this.”
its saying that they were in purgatory, and that the island was a method of letting go. The people in the church were all dead, and the timeline of the island was when they all died. like the others died earlier and were still accepting it, while richard took much longer to understand. I still dont understand jacob, whitmore, the freaking numbers, etc. but thats all i can figure
They all died in the initial plane crash, the island has nothing to do with real life. ALL the theories, signs, were just coincidences. Terrible end
For anyone who truly “got” the ending…I need some help on a couple things:
1-What did the plane flying over Jack’s head symbolize? Was that flight 815 in the FSW?
2-I get that the FSW was them all being dead, finding each other, etc. BUT – what was the point of the island? i.e. all 5 other seasons? I really just want to understand it all.
I think the reason Walt isn’t in that room is because he isn’t dead yet in the real world. Although, is there any explanation as to Penny’s death? and since Lapidus, Miles and Richard arent in the room, does that mean the plane they took with sawyer and kate and clare landed safely? Were they waiting for Jack to die before they did this rendezvous?
[quote comment="375118"]They all died in the initial plane crash, the island has nothing to do with real life. ALL the theories, signs, were just coincidences. Terrible end[/quote]
No no — see comment 116. Best explanation so far. The island time was real time. They lived to the extent we saw it. Sideways was their “construct.” Whether they died on the island or got off… everyone eventually dies. Somehow these people were stuck and couldn’t move forward to “heaven” or whatever you believe, until they all came together again. Or something…
Perfect ending!
I sure hope they explain some stuff on the Jimmy Kimmel show and see the other 3 endings they advertised…hopefully they are better than this or atleast explain the ending a lil for us.
[quote comment="375114"]Please God someone explain this to me before I cry. I am soooo confused what did he mean they were all dead. Christian said some died before Jack and some died after…..so what was the flashside ways about….Im so very confused. Did Christian go “into the light” what did he mean they built that place so they could find each other? Like there souls could find each other?[/quote]
Yes, everything that happened on the island was real and everything in the flash sideways was a world they created to find to each other in the after life. Time has no meaning when you’re dead so the fact that they all died at different times doesn’t matter.
Anyone who is trying to figure this out is wrapping there brains for nothing. They really screwed this one up. This could have ended so much better. Like i said before, I am just so very dissapointed with the creators of this show.
[quote comment="375119"]For anyone who truly “got” the ending…I need some help on a couple things:
1-What did the plane flying over Jack’s head symbolize? Was that flight 815 in the FSW?
2-I get that the FSW was them all being dead, finding each other, etc. BUT – what was the point of the island? i.e. all 5 other seasons? I really just want to understand it all.[/quote]
#1 – No – that was the Ajira plane REALLY getting off the island.
#2 – uh… I dunno.
[quote comment="375118"]They all died in the initial plane crash, the island has nothing to do with real life. ALL the theories, signs, were just coincidences. Terrible end[/quote]
No, I don’t think so. Only the flashsides ways was the after life. The real time line was real life. Christian said they all died at different times!
Everything was real, but they all died at different times, but their fates, love and life were so intertwined that they (tacitly) made a pact to meet up and leave together once everyone was ready to leave … Leave where? Leave their earthly existence. And Jack took his time getting there, even though it appeared that he died rather quickly after plugging the energy source.
There is no ‘now’ in the afterlife and a day could be a millennium, or a hundred years – one minute long. There is no time, or space — there is only love. It was perfectly beautiful.
FSW is purgatory and Christian was was opening the gates to heaven leading the way.
Jack could have been the last to die because as we know island time is different then real world time, so all those who got of the island in the plane at the end could have went to the real world in who knows what era in time and thus technically died before jack
horrible and poor ending to MIB.
also, in the scene where Jack punches MIB and blood comes out of MIB’s mouth, why didn’t MIB kill Jack? He knocked him out cold! he could’ve done anything…
i would’ve been more satisfied with an “island getting destroyed” scenario and we see MIB leaving the island or something
the 2 timelines merging was retarded
to Murphy:
So you’re saying everything on the Island was actually real, they didn’t die in the plane crash….and over time as they died one way or another, they all meet in this “contruct” to move on?
But what about that all the people there haven’t aged past the crash?
totally confused. where can I get answers?
So Ben didn’t go inside because he wasn’t dead yet or he wasn’t ready to admit that he was dead?
Plus….Sawyer, Kate, & Claire were all on the plane that left with Lapidus, Miles, & Richard. So where in the hell were they at during the church scene?
absolutely awesome ending. honestly how else could you do it? In the end Lost is like real life. You meet a lot of awesome people who help to bring out the best in you and bring you to your ultimate destination…..
Comment 116 hit the nail right on the head. Thats how I interpted the ending. But I still thought it sucked. A terrible way for THIS show to end.
Cried like a baby. Best show of all time –nothing will even come close!
[quote comment="375132"]to Murphy:
So you’re saying everything on the Island was actually real, they didn’t die in the plane crash….and over time as they died one way or another, they all meet in this “contruct” to move on?
But what about that all the people there haven’t aged past the crash?[/quote]
Also a construct, think like the matrix. Apparently, you can look how you want to look.
Forgetting about the lingering questions (for a moment), I thought the moments of awakening were really beautiful. Sawyer/Juliet, Sun/Jin, Claire/Charlie. Disappointed we didn’t see Desmond/Penny. But these moments were beautiful. Made me cry, as did the last scene, which mirrored the first scene of the series so nicely (Vincent!)
Maybe I’m a sucker, but I thought it was beautiful. Tomorrow I’ll read EW’s Doc Jensen to find out what everything else meant. Tonight, I’ll remember those characters who’ve become special to me.
So what happened happened thats what christian said. So everything on the island all that happened. the flashforward. the flash backwards. The only thing that wasnt “real” was the flash side ways. That was just so they could find each other. The ones that arent there arent dead yet. Time doesnt exsist there. So they all see each other as they were when they knew each other. For all we know Kate could have died at 90 in her bed. I think….WHAT THE HELL that doesnt even make sense. So they all encountered each other in the flashside ways and once they remembered they went to wait at the church. Jack just didnt remember until last? Ben wasnt ready to except it yet?
I get it.
[quote comment="375119"]For anyone who truly “got” the ending…I need some help on a couple things:
1-What did the plane flying over Jack’s head symbolize? Was that flight 815 in the FSW?
2-I get that the FSW was them all being dead, finding each other, etc. BUT – what was the point of the island? i.e. all 5 other seasons? I really just want to understand it all.[/quote]
1. The plane was the plane Lapidus was flying off the island. He smiled cuz he knew that they were going to get off the Island and be able to live their lives. We don’t know, but it’s likely that Sawyer, Kate, Miles, Richard, and Lapidus all made it back and lived out their lives although whatever they went on to do, it didn’t shape them as much as their time together on the island. Hugo’s comments to Ben about him being a great #2 and Hugo being a great number #1 makes me think that they protected the island together for a very long time before dying.
2. That’s why people are pissed at this ending. I understand the ending. I think it was a very thought provoking ending, but it doesn’t fit with the rest of the series. It wasn’t the type of closure that was needed to round out everything that happened. If this was the ending they were planning all along, then most of the last 2-3 seasons don’t serve much purpose.
The polar bear WAS Walt. Duh
[quote comment="375123"]I sure hope they explain some stuff on the Jimmy Kimmel show and see the other 3 endings they advertised…hopefully they are better than this or atleast explain the ending a lil for us.[/quote]
I think those are “Jimmy” endings…not real endings that the D&C came up with as possiblities.
So they all die and go off to heaven, happy ever after. What a crock, this is the best they could come up with? I now wish I had never started watching, another disappoint ment from lazy writers!
Me thinks that the Island was their living purgatory since they all shoulda coulda died in the plane crash. Not saying they were “dead” on the island, but it gave them an opportunity to prove their goodness prior to true death. When the died for good, their consciousness moves to the flash sideways….kind of like reincarnation.
Here’s the best explanation.
There is no explanation. I beleive comment 116 correctly captures the writers intent. I also believe the writers didn’t have a plot that logically ties together … the whole show is just nonsensical.
The numbers, the dharma initiative, jacob / adam, jacob’s lair, why only richard could speak to jacob, what the island is, why there were hyrogliphics on the light plug, the polar bear, why children couldn’t be born on the island,the others, why the others wanted walt, why wald was specials and why they were testing his blood, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.
I think 116 is right with one friendly amendment. I agree that everything on the Island was real (i.e., they did not all die when the plane crashed). That explains Hurley’s comment to Ben at the church. As Christian explained, some people in the church died before Jack, some at or about the same time, and others much, much later. (This explains Kate’s statement that she waited for so long to see Jack again – she must have lived a long life.) The Sidweways world was purgatory – a world where some of them could work out their issues until they were ready to move on. That’s why Ben can’t leave. He still has issues to figure out. Locke also needed to let go and move on.
I found it disappointing. Better end would have been for Christian to lead all the people in the church back to the Island, and for the Island to be a terrestial Heaven. That would help explain why woman cannot conceive on the Island as well as Jacob’s and MIB’s roles.
– everything on the Island is real aalthough I’m not sure that “they” created the Sideways world. My impression
Wait, who’s in the hatch? I am way behind on this stuff…
FSW was the afterlife — but not purgatory, more like a staging area for the light, I think in order for them to find and recognize each other, and to accept that they were ‘dead’ — they had to touch souls — and in an instant– beautiful knowing consciousness. It was just harder for Jack to accept it; and his dad was there to help him along.
I think Ben was dead, but wasn’t ready to move on with the rest of them — he likely will have to cycle through another life before he can get there himself.
[quote comment="375143"]The polar bear WAS Walt. Duh[/quote]
Polar bears are white Walt was of African descent.DUH
[quote comment="375144"][quote comment="375123"]I sure hope they explain some stuff on the Jimmy Kimmel show and see the other 3 endings they advertised…hopefully they are better than this or atleast explain the ending a lil for us.[/quote]
I think those are “Jimmy” endings…not real endings that the D&C came up with as possiblities.[/quote]
REally? I hope not because i would like to see what other options they had to mcome up with
if they all died at different times, why was the last scene of the beach seemingly right after the crash with no one alive? i’m disappointed. oh and where are walt and michael? and does this mean MIB and jacob were all bull too???
comment 116 is a perfect answer
im just confused about ben not coming in? is he going to hell or what? and where was lapedus, and the rest of the crew at?
[quote comment="375142"][quote comment="375119"]For anyone who truly “got” the ending…I need some help on a couple things:
1-What did the plane flying over Jack’s head symbolize? Was that flight 815 in the FSW?
2-I get that the FSW was them all being dead, finding each other, etc. BUT – what was the point of the island? i.e. all 5 other seasons? I really just want to understand it all.[/quote]
1. The plane was the plane Lapidus was flying off the island. He smiled cuz he knew that they were going to get off the Island and be able to live their lives. We don’t know, but it’s likely that Sawyer, Kate, Miles, Richard, and Lapidus all made it back and lived out their lives although whatever they went on to do, it didn’t shape them as much as their time together on the island. Hugo’s comments to Ben about him being a great #2 and Hugo being a great number #1 makes me think that they protected the island together for a very long time before dying.
2. That’s why people are pissed at this ending. I understand the ending. I think it was a very thought provoking ending, but it doesn’t fit with the rest of the series. It wasn’t the type of closure that was needed to round out everything that happened. If this was the ending they were planning all along, then most of the last 2-3 seasons don’t serve much purpose.[/quote]
Thank you, Mr. $tuart! That is helpful. I think I need to keep in mind that there were a lot of filler eps in last couple seasons, which fits more with what you’re saying about the planned ending. Thanks!
[quote comment="375119"]For anyone who truly “got” the ending…I need some help on a couple things:
1-What did the plane flying over Jack’s head symbolize? Was that flight 815 in the FSW?
2-I get that the FSW was them all being dead, finding each other, etc. BUT – what was the point of the island? i.e. all 5 other seasons? I really just want to understand it all.[/quote]
1 – they ALL (the group) got off the island in totality.
2 – the island is where the groups go….been gping on for a long time….but if you don’t leave it correctly…God help them all…get it?
Must have been a very long time, waiting for Hurley to finally die and join them in the church!! On the other hand, this was all tied to Jack’s death timeline!
I think it was very loose, way too many holes to plug and they figured if you boil anything down around lines of accepted faith (heaven, afterlife yada yada) they will get away with it in the end…..Very very very weak.
[quote comment="375151"][quote comment="375143"]The polar bear WAS Walt. Duh[/quote]
Polar bears are white Walt was of African descent.DUH[/quote]
Actually polar bears have black skin and their hair is clear. They appear white because of the way the light passes through the clear hair.
When you guys say the people that aren’t there havent died yet doesn’t make sense. Hurley would have lived longer than anyone being the “protector” of the island.
Beautiful ending.
To reiterate, everything on the island actually happened in the real world, in real time. The “you are dead” revelation only applied to the events of the flash-sideways universe.
I was hoping for the finale to be a little more strongly focused on answering questions and tying up loose-ends, but it’s true to the series that it was more character-centric. Now it feels like a puzzle that we can at least say we have all the pieces to.
I was expecting more of a twist, though. And my first reaction is that I wish we didn’t have to spend quite as much time in the alterna-verse, though it was probably necessary. And I’m kinda disappointed to know the bomb plan didn’t work after all.
[quote comment="375156"]the island is where the groups go….been gping on for a long time….but if you don’t leave it correctly…God help them all…get it?[/quote]
Uh.. no.
I don’t understand why the writers didn’t just have EVERYBODY in the church. Eko, Daniel, Charlotte, Illana, everybody.
[quote comment="375152"][quote comment="375144"][quote comment="375123"]I sure hope they explain some stuff on the Jimmy Kimmel show and see the other 3 endings they advertised…hopefully they are better than this or atleast explain the ending a lil for us.[/quote]
I think those are “Jimmy” endings…not real endings that the D&C came up with as possiblities.[/quote]
REally? I hope not because i would like to see what other options they had to mcome up with[/quote]
I heard Damon say that he wanted to be clear…they only had 1 ending for the show in mind the entire time….so the Kimmel endings are either made up by Jimmy or to throw the scent off for spoilers.
One thing I don’t get is why the Island is on the bottom of the ocean in FSW.
[quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
There is no explanation. I beleive comment 116 correctly captures the writers intent. I also believe the writers didn’t have a plot that logically ties together … the whole show is just nonsensical.
The numbers, the dharma initiative, jacob / adam, jacob’s lair, why only richard could speak to jacob, what the island is, why there were hyrogliphics on the light plug, the polar bear, why children couldn’t be born on the island,the others, why the others wanted walt, why wald was specials and why they were testing his blood, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
I don’t think the show is nonsensical. Sure, some of the stuff you mention was filler. Walt and aaron didn’t really matter. So what? The mythology just has to be accepted from what “Mother” said. If the light goes out, all life ends. Some in the Dharma initiative and Others were candidates. Jacob and MIB have been going at this for a long time. It is really about the characters anyway and the mysteries of the island are like a character.
[quote comment="375159"]When you guys say the people that aren’t there havent died yet doesn’t make sense. Hurley would have lived longer than anyone being the “protector” of the island.[/quote]
That y ben was not ready to enter the church…
Jimmy asked: what the hell just happened?
Kate, Sawyer, Lupedis etc. were on the plane taking off, which is what Jack saw right before he died, but then they crashed on the beach, the same way oceanic flight 815 had crashed. They all died (except richard?) and that’s how they were in the church.
um….huh
Jimmy Kimmel summed that up real good in the opening
[quote comment="375153"]if they all died at different times, why was the last scene of the beach seemingly right after the crash with no one alive? i’m disappointed. oh and where are walt and michael? and does this mean MIB and jacob were all bull too???[/quote]
This was a place they all wanted to meet up with each other, I’m not sure they really wanted Michael there…he screwed them over and killed several of the people there. Also, Lapidus, Miles, and Richard are not yet ready to move on and be part of the group. Remember when Hurley and Desmond had Sayid and Kate released, and the cop was Anna Lucia but she was obnoxious? And Hurley then made the comment “She’s not ready yet”?
[quote comment="375156"][quote comment="375119"]For anyone who truly “got” the ending…I need some help on a couple things:
1-What did the plane flying over Jack’s head symbolize? Was that flight 815 in the FSW?
2-I get that the FSW was them all being dead, finding each other, etc. BUT – what was the point of the island? i.e. all 5 other seasons? I really just want to understand it all.[/quote]
1 – they ALL (the group) got off the island in totality.
2 – the island is where the groups go….been gping on for a long time….but if you don’t leave it correctly…God help them all…get it?[/quote]
Hammer, thanks for your response. I’m still not 100% clear what you’re saying about if the groups don’t leave it correctly then God help them all. What do you mean by leaving correctly?
[quote comment="375160"]Beautiful ending.
To reiterate, everything on the island actually happened in the real world, in real time. The “you are dead” revelation only applied to the events of the flash-sideways universe.
I was hoping for the finale to be a little more strongly focused on answering questions and tying up loose-ends, but it’s true to the series that it was more character-centric. Now it feels like a puzzle that we can at least say we have all the pieces to.
I was expecting more of a twist, though. And my first reaction is that I wish we didn’t have to spend quite as much time in the alterna-verse, though it was probably necessary. And I’m kinda disappointed to know the bomb plan didn’t work after all.[/quote]
WHH with the bomb plan. It was the incident. I said that all along
I like Jimmy’s theory about this series being Jack’s test to get into the great beyond. I don’t buy it, but it’s a very interesting take.
[quote comment="375162"]I don’t understand why the writers didn’t just have EVERYBODY in the church. Eko, Daniel, Charlotte, Illana, everybody.[/quote]
Budget constraints? Actors had other commitments?
ok I think I understand the finale. I understand the flashside ways. I just dont understand all the other episodes of the entire show……all the mysterys all the clues…what is going on
[quote comment="375164"]One thing I don’t get is why the Island is on the bottom of the ocean in FSW.[/quote]
It was a trick to make us think the bomb worked so we wouldn’t guess the real reason for the flash sideways. Not a bad thing though. I liked how it all worked out.
[quote comment="375165"][quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
There is no explanation. I beleive comment 116 correctly captures the writers intent. I also believe the writers didn’t have a plot that logically ties together … the whole show is just nonsensical.
The numbers, the dharma initiative, jacob / adam, jacob’s lair, why only richard could speak to jacob, what the island is, why there were hyrogliphics on the light plug, the polar bear, why children couldn’t be born on the island,the others, why the others wanted walt, why wald was specials and why they were testing his blood, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
I don’t think the show is nonsensical. Sure, some of the stuff you mention was filler. Walt and aaron didn’t really matter. So what? The mythology just has to be accepted from what “Mother” said. If the light goes out, all life ends. Some in the Dharma initiative and Others were candidates. Jacob and MIB have been going at this for a long time. It is really about the characters anyway and the mysteries of the island are like a character.[/quote]
Sorry, the show is nonsensical. You want more?
The Island underground, Widemore’s role, what Widemore whispered to Flocke, what the smoke monster was (widemore said he had heard myths), the hatch, the various dharma stations, the time travel, the space travel (e.g. to egypt), the donkey wheel, jacob’s lighthouse, the nuclear bomb, etc, etc, etc.
No one even knows what the island is. Jacob didn’t, Jacob’s crazy mom probably didn’t, Jack didn’t, Hugo certainly didn’t. So any rules can be made up. No explanation required.
[quote comment="375162"]I don’t understand why the writers didn’t just have EVERYBODY in the church. Eko, Daniel, Charlotte, Illana, everybody.[/quote]
Not sure if this totally answers you question, but I remember Christian saying that all the people in the church were those who had a profound effect on each others life. I would say, although some of those aforementioned people had an effect on the main characters, it wasn’t as profound and intricate as the ones who actually were present in the church. Thats my take.
The flash-sideways were sort of a purgatory for lost and tortured souls…As is the life of ghosts, they don’t remember shit and walk throughout their dream-world just living…
It took dead Desmond traveling to this otherside to help kick-start the awakening of these souls to move-on together by remembering their tortured experiences together…If they hadn’t they probably would have just been trapped in that state…Like a cycle…
Showing Jack at the end in the same state to witch he came to the island and flashed to the island illustrates this cycle…
The island is a place where you can connect to the otherside because of the “special Properties”…It took all this to make Jack remember he was trapped in the purgatory aswell…
You gotta kinda think that since the island is the mid-point of these realities, when exposed to these phenomenons you (mentally) can exhibit a commune with your otherself…The whispers get trapped on this place because the island is shares a part of this “Dead-Reality”
This whole show was basically about some LOST souls finding a way to break the cycle and “Move-on”….What we saw (As in the the ENTIRE effin show!!) was the storyline of their journey that would make-up the things that awoke them in the sideways…
Yep, and it was still weak..
I dare you to find a hole in this logic!
No I don’t…I’m going to find some flavored rum and get f*cked up now losties, no, no McCutchen’s for me…
[quote comment="375158"][quote comment="375151"][quote comment="375143"]The polar bear WAS Walt. Duh[/quote]
Polar bears are white Walt was of African descent.DUH[/quote]
Actually polar bears have black skin and their hair is clear. They appear white because of the way the light passes through the clear hair.[/quote]
Whatever they look f’ing white Mr biologist
For a minute I thought Ben was going to pull a fast one and blow up the church with everyone in it.
Posts 116 and 162 fit with how I interpret the ending. I think people are too caught up in an actual timeline of the afterlife. I don’t think the afterlife has a timeline. I think that all of people died at various point in “real”time and in the afterlife, they led a FSW life. One by one, when they connected with each other in the afterlife, they “remembered” the person from their mortal life. And they were happy. That person and those memories were happy. The Aljira plane taking off over Jack leads us to believe those on that plane continued to lead a long mortal life, but when reconnected in the afterlife with one another, those people and times made the most impact, which is why they are the most important. Season 6 is all about their afterlife.
even though I am very very lost because some things i just didn’t get. This was part of my thinking before this ending. They crashed and while they were “living” on the island, in real life they were in comas and as they died on the island they were brought back to life in the real world but didn’t remember the alternate world on the island until they crossed each others path. There are just too many other things I am trying to make sense of and still very much confused.
I don’t mean to nitpick, but am I to believe that Aaron chose to be a newborn when he moed on to the next phase – or is he just another construct to bring Claire and Charlie together. If so, why bring him to the Church? Wouldn’t he have his own life and death? In other words, wouldn’t another Aaron be roaming around FSW?
[quote comment="375178"][quote comment="375165"][quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
There is no explanation. I beleive comment 116 correctly captures the writers intent. I also believe the writers didn’t have a plot that logically ties together … the whole show is just nonsensical.
The numbers, the dharma initiative, jacob / adam, jacob’s lair, why only richard could speak to jacob, what the island is, why there were hyrogliphics on the light plug, the polar bear, why children couldn’t be born on the island,the others, why the others wanted walt, why wald was specials and why they were testing his blood, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
I don’t think the show is nonsensical. Sure, some of the stuff you mention was filler. Walt and aaron didn’t really matter. So what? The mythology just has to be accepted from what “Mother” said. If the light goes out, all life ends. Some in the Dharma initiative and Others were candidates. Jacob and MIB have been going at this for a long time. It is really about the characters anyway and the mysteries of the island are like a character.[/quote]
Sorry, the show is nonsensical. You want more?
The Island underground, Widemore’s role, what Widemore whispered to Flocke, what the smoke monster was (widemore said he had heard myths), the hatch, the various dharma stations, the time travel, the space travel (e.g. to egypt), the donkey wheel, jacob’s lighthouse, the nuclear bomb, etc, etc, etc.
No one even knows what the island is. Jacob didn’t, Jacob’s crazy mom probably didn’t, Jack didn’t, Hugo certainly didn’t. So any rules can be made up. No explanation required.[/quote]
Sure the technology of the wheel and lighthouse and everything doesn’t make a lot of sense, but you just have to chalk it up to magic and suspend disbelief.
Jacob said the island is a cork holding back hell. It ties into what the Dharma initiative research was all about, changing the date of the end of the world. Maybe if there hadn’t been a Dharma Iniative the numbers whould have been different and MIB would have won.
[quote comment="375179"][quote comment="375162"]I don’t understand why the writers didn’t just have EVERYBODY in the church. Eko, Daniel, Charlotte, Illana, everybody.[/quote]
Not sure if this totally answers you question, but I remember Christian saying that all the people in the church were those who had a profound effect on each others life. I would say, although some of those aforementioned people had an effect on the main characters, it wasn’t as profound and intricate as the ones who actually were present in the church. Thats my take.[/quote]
Yeah I understand your point. I’m saying it might have made more sense and given people more closure if they could have seen all the characters. Walt for instance, completely disappeared during the series. Why not throw him in there. He was as important as Boone and Shannon. They brought back Anna Lucia and Michael and others during the season so why not at the end.
This ending does leave open a spin off for a Sawyer and Miles cop show.
[quote comment="375182"]For a minute I thought Ben was going to pull a fast one and blow up the church with everyone in it.[/quote]
LOL..that would have been funny:) Maybe Ben is part of another group…with like the Dharma people and Alex so he wanted to wait for them. They were coming next:P
I dont understand why in the FSW Jack would be married to Juliet and they would have kid. None of that was real….I just dont get THAT part explain someone please
I haven’t read all the posts, but I think a lot of people misunderstood the ending….or I am way off.
The plane did really crash and everything on the island really happened. Eventually, all the people in the room died (some on the island, some off the island). The FSW is the in between and none of them really understood they were dead until that flash showed them their true life. Because the island had the most influence on each as a person, they all needed to see each other before moving on.
Take care Losties! It has been real.
So yes, they were making it up as they went along. There was no resolution planned as they strung out the mysteries. But of all the TV series that end with an abstract “God did it” sort of ending, I have to say that this is the best I’ve seen. The producers don’t deserve a pat on the back though. They could have easily made a story equally moving with an actual resolution, they just couldn’t be bothered.
[quote comment="375186"]
Sure the technology of the wheel and lighthouse and everything doesn’t make a lot of sense, but you just have to chalk it up to magic and suspend disbelief.
Jacob said the island is a cork holding back hell. It ties into what the Dharma initiative research was all about, changing the date of the end of the world. Maybe if there hadn’t been a Dharma Iniative the numbers whould have been different and MIB would have won.[/quote]
the temple, the spring of life, the infection (Claire & sayid), why sayid supposedly couldn’t let Flocke speak before stabbing him, etc.
It’s obvious to me that the writers didn’t have a coherent plot. they threw a ton of random stuff on the wall.
It was an enjoyable experience. If I had to do it again though I wouldn’t start watching knowing that there wasn’t a cohesive ending and a lot of the plot lines were pure throwaways.
[quote comment="375099"]
So evryone is dead but Richard, Miles and Frank ?
[/quote]
And Ben.
but why was Penny in the church?
perhaps because Ben lived and did shoot her.. (in the groceries).
and now the MIB thing and Jacob thing dont make a lot of sense…and what was the “being infected” thing about
[quote comment="375187"][quote comment="375179"][quote comment="375162"]I don’t understand why the writers didn’t just have EVERYBODY in the church. Eko, Daniel, Charlotte, Illana, everybody.[/quote]
Not sure if this totally answers you question, but I remember Christian saying that all the people in the church were those who had a profound effect on each others life. I would say, although some of those aforementioned people had an effect on the main characters, it wasn’t as profound and intricate as the ones who actually were present in the church. Thats my take.[/quote]
Yeah I understand your point. I’m saying it might have made more sense and given people more closure if they could have seen all the characters. Walt for instance, completely disappeared during the series. Why not throw him in there. He was as important as Boone and Shannon. They brought back Anna Lucia and Michael and others during the season so why not at the end.[/quote]
True. Having all the characters there would’ve given the finale a more comprehensive ending. I thought Anna Lucia would definitely be there! Maybe the other commentor was right about budget constraints or prior engagements/contracts =/
[quote comment="375153"]if they all died at different times, why was the last scene of the beach seemingly right after the crash with no one alive? i’m disappointed. oh and where are walt and michael? and does this mean MIB and jacob were all bull too???[/quote]
I don’t think the shots of the crashed plane on the beach were technically part of this episode. The episode ended with Jack’s eye closing.
So i didnt have time to read through the rest but,
a) the show was really about jack the whole time…wow
b) i guess the original idea of killing jack off really did come true.
overall, i am amazed by this ending and they couldnt of done it better
I’m sorry but I’m very disappointed with the episode. I completely understand the ending and agree with post 116 and the other posts. I think it was a solid end for a show BUT NOT the kind of end that Lost deserves. It was so straightforward and really did not address ANYTHING that came before it. The script was full of holes and sloppy.
I could on and on about what it didn’t answer but I’ll only mention one because others have already pointed them out– why didn’t Jack need to say the incantation with Hurley became the protector? That little script defect set me off for the rest of the episode.
I’ve been such a supporter and feel I’ve been short changed.
Am I the only one who thinks that it was the same ending as when rose died on ” Titanic?”
[quote comment="375195"][quote comment="375099"]
So evryone is dead but Richard, Miles and Frank ?
[/quote]
And Ben.
but why was Penny in the church?
perhaps because Ben lived and did shoot her.. (in the groceries).[/quote]
Ben is waiting for Alex. I have no idea about Penny.
If this was the ending they were planning all along then I for the life of me can’t understand why they threw in so many “mysteries” that they couldn’t answer. I don’t know how everybody else feels, but the mysteries were intriguing, but the characters and their storylines WAY over shadowed most of the mystery. They could have easily given us less mystery and answered what they did give us and have the show more about the characters. Does that make sense? This ending just doesn’t match the rest of the series, but it could have easily if they really knew it was going to end like this back when they first started.
somebody made the right call.
jack equals dead.
hugo equals next guy.
rose, bernarhd and vincent.
did vincent go for walkies into the light?
[quote comment="375002"]LOST For Dummies – by Tarzan
Tarzan sure Doctor name Jack will feel very different — very soon.
Tarzan also re-hire nice man name Hurley. He take old science position as ‘chef’ — make island people eat healthy and much laughing.
Tarzan also need new help guard island. Tarzan think ask marry peoples name Rose and Bernard to run island retirement camp on North shore island. Dog name Vincent hire too.
[/quote]
What a mindfuck. Darlton needs to drink a cup of posioned Jacob water to make up for this fiasco. I’ll do the incantation.
LOL Did anybody else see the kid who played the young Jacob hiding in the “trees” in the background during Kimmel? HILARIOUS.
Stuart the problem is there was never a “plan”, this was a tv show, not “War & Peace” writen in a way to build excitement and speculation so that you would tune in each week causing Frosted Mini Wheats and Target to continue to write checks. Stop trying to “understand” because there are NO answers.
[quote comment="375205"]LOL Did anybody else see the kid who played the young Jacob hiding in the “trees” in the background during Kimmel? HILARIOUS.[/quote]
I totally laughed out loud when I saw him!
DANG! Emilie de Ravin is looking GOOD!
Gotta love those tender moments
It seems that at this point the current agreed theory across major blogs is that the “island actually was the real world and the alt verse is a purgatory and that they’re souls metaphysically created the altverse and blah blah blah blah”.( horribly lazy writing btw)
IF this is the case then WHY show the post credits scene with the wreckage of the plane with obviously no life to be seen, hence no one survived. ( Im also convinced the time of the wreckage scene is either right after the crash or shortly there after)
The reality here is the creators did have the story arc planned out the entire time……when they still thought the show would be JUST a mini series. Everything else was added in with clearly no higher thought then to just pull you through. Time travel? walt/ michael? countless dharma plots?? aaron?? it goes on and on.
For those that agree with this island/real world altworld/purgatory theory, please give your explanation of that last wreckage scene. There are some serious holes in this thing on many different levels.
[quote comment="375206"]Stuart the problem is there was never a “plan”, this was a tv show, not “War & Peace” writen in a way to build excitement and speculation so that you would tune in each week causing Frosted Mini Wheats and Target to continue to write checks. Stop trying to “understand” because there are NO answers.[/quote]
I totally see your point. I just made that comment becuase the producers continue to insist and they have for a long time that they had a plan and they knew how it was going to play out from the very beginning and it’s been a topic of arguement as to whether that is true, or are they just filling us up with more BS. I vote BS.
I vote BS too!
[quote comment="375210"]It seems that at this point the current agreed theory across major blogs is that the “island actually was the real world and the alt verse is a purgatory and that they’re souls metaphysically created the altverse and blah blah blah blah”.( horribly lazy writing btw)
IF this is the case then WHY show the post credits scene with the wreckage of the plane with obviously no life to be seen, hence no one survived. ( Im also convinced the time of the wreckage scene is either right after the crash or shortly there after)
The reality here is the creators did have the story arc planned out the entire time……when they still thought the show would be JUST a mini series. Everything else was added in with clearly no higher thought then to just pull you through. Time travel? walt/ michael? countless dharma plots?? aaron?? it goes on and on.
For those that agree with this island/real world altworld/purgatory theory, please give your explanation of that last wreckage scene. There are some serious holes in this thing on many different levels.[/quote]
Should have added what I actually think, that everything past the original flight 815 crash was purgatory and afterlife, and that all events, jacob/smokey, timetravel, etc where all manifested by the dead from the crash. But either way , my theory or the altverse/purgotory theory, its str8 bullshit writing, and the creators should be ashamed.
Yep, 116 nailed it, The plane crashed in real life, the island was real, Jacob was real, everything was real. Flash Sideways was “purgatory” and none of them could move on until they found each other. Most of them probably went on to lead normal long lives. As someone mentioned, Kate said she was waiting for Jack for a long time, which leads us to believe Kate lived a LONG life, maybe to 90 or 100. Now, Ben couldn’t go in because he either A.) was not dead yet, he was the #2 in charge of the island after Hurley died or B.) Just wasn’t ready yet. Miles, Richard and Lapedis probably weren’t there because they weren’t part of the initial crash, and didn’t have impacts on too many people.
It’s not hard to figure out, in the end they all found each other, that is what matters.
I knew they would pull this kind of a stunt. They basically outright said it when they said it was about the characters and the implied – it’s not about the story. It was story for the sake of story to generate emotion for the sake of emotion. That’s why you feel used, betrayed, emotionally drained but in the end it doesn’t satisfy the logic needs of your brain. It’s a post modern experience – go for the feeling but there’s no substance to back it all up.
As for the wreckage at the end with no sign of life, well of course not, those who lived walked away from it and they buried all the others who died, so that’s not hard to figure out.
[quote comment="375210"]It seems that at this point the current agreed theory across major blogs is that the “island actually was the real world and the alt verse is a purgatory and that they’re souls metaphysically created the altverse and blah blah blah blah”.( horribly lazy writing btw)
IF this is the case then WHY show the post credits scene with the wreckage of the plane with obviously no life to be seen, hence no one survived. ( Im also convinced the time of the wreckage scene is either right after the crash or shortly there after)
The reality here is the creators did have the story arc planned out the entire time……when they still thought the show would be JUST a mini series. Everything else was added in with clearly no higher thought then to just pull you through. Time travel? walt/ michael? countless dharma plots?? aaron?? it goes on and on.
For those that agree with this island/real world altworld/purgatory theory, please give your explanation of that last wreckage scene. There are some serious holes in this thing on many different levels.[/quote]
I think the closing scene is what the beach looks like now that everyone is gone – either dead or taken off on the Aljira plane.
I thought Purgatory, like a lot of us, after season 1. I went back to thinking it after Christian told Michael on the freighter “you can go now”. Like…you can move on now. Then a few episodes ago we find out the whispers are dead people. Mix in the hocus pocus with Alpert living forever and smoke monsters. I think one interpretation could be that they all died on 815 and the ones who thought they survived were ones who weren’t ready. Maybe they needed to work some things out first or maybe they were trying to figure out if they were good or bad. Like Sayid. Oh yeah, why Shannon and not Nadia…wait doesn’t he get 30 virgins?
This show isn’t about Purgotory…it’s about reincarnation!
how did Eloise Hawking fit into all of this? Why did she hassle Desmond about not being ready, and then the time in the jewelry store telling him that he wasn’t supposed to be doing what he was doing? What exactly was he supposed to do?
So during the whole FSW, everyone was dead? Does that mean Eloise was dead, too?
Just wishfull thinking but do u think D&C will have some sort of Q&A with some media and fans later on?
Why wasn’t Sayid with Nadia? Wasn’t she the love of his life?
LOL@ Sayid getting screwed out of his 70 virgins. Great comment way_lost.
[quote comment="375148"]I think 116 is right with one friendly amendment. I agree that everything on the Island was real (i.e., they did not all die when the plane crashed). That explains Hurley’s comment to Ben at the church. As Christian explained, some people in the church died before Jack, some at or about the same time, and others much, much later. (This explains Kate’s statement that she waited for so long to see Jack again – she must have lived a long life.) The Sidweways world was purgatory – a world where some of them could work out their issues until they were ready to move on. That’s why Ben can’t leave. He still has issues to figure out. Locke also needed to let go and move on.
I found it disappointing. Better end would have been for Christian to lead all the people in the church back to the Island, and for the Island to be a terrestial Heaven. That would help explain why woman cannot conceive on the Island as well as Jacob’s and MIB’s roles.
- everything on the Island is real aalthough I’m not sure that “they” created the Sideways world. My impression[/quote]
pretty dissapointed
i couldnt agree more
Also, Rose living for so long without cancer and Locke’s legs…more hocus pocus. This also makes me think they died.
Thanks for the ride everyone.
[quote comment="375190"]I dont understand why in the FSW Jack would be married to Juliet and they would have kid. None of that was real….I just dont get THAT part explain someone please[/quote]
Well, you have to understand that Jack and Kate never formally met (except for borrowing out his pen), besides she was a fugitive, so they never really stood a real chance. Now for Juliette, she is also in the medical profession, so it’s not completely farfetched that they met, married, and had a child. Does this help?
what did Widmore want all along? To be the protector? What was the thing with all the kids being kidnapped by the Others? Dharma et al. ? The toed statue? The numbers? I am so bummed….What was so special about Walt? Anyone? Anyone? Throw me a bone, here….
I don’t think people weren’t in the church because they “weren’t dead yet” FSW exists outside of real time. Christian said “there is no now”. Everyone that lived in island time existed in FSW and were dead in island time. Ben was probably waiting for Alex to awaken prior to moving on. Who knows about the others missing from the church….probably chalk it up to production vs. storytelling
So the whole thing with the underwater island was a big red herring. We were supposed to believe the whole island sank when it was just the New Otherton part when Sawyer said “That can’t be good”.
So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”!
If the FSW was “purgatory” or something along those lines, what did the explosion of the bomb at the end of Season 5 actually accomplish? Based on tonight’s explanation, the bomb explosion didn’t necessarily “create” the FSW, correct? But in the real timeline, the bomb explodes, sending Jack, Sawyer et al from 1977 back to where they are supposed to be chronologically, in other words, to 2007, at a time after the swan station was built and after it was blown up by Desmond turning the fail safe key. Does that mean that the bomb explosion in 1977 was indeed the Incident and the Dharma folks survived it and went on to build the Swan station? So Faraday’s theory in “The Variable” that detonating the H-bomb would change the future and OA815 would never crash was wrong. And his original theory that “whatever happened happened” was correct, and there’s only one timeline that exists and no one can change it?
[quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
[quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
I think this could have been a great ending if the show had progressed the way it did during season one. The problem I have is that it doesn’t jive with the last couple seasons. All the time travel and crap like that became totally unnecessary given this ending. It was an interesting ending and an emotional one as well, but the problem people are having is the fact that many parts of the series were meaningless and very “important” questions never got remotely answered.
I agree, why did they kidnap the kids. WTF were the Others? Why is Walt special? What are the numbers? What? Why?
So Darlton said they wrote Lost to be the show that they would want to watch and enjoy. I thought I liked the same thing they did and they had me fooled until almost the end of the season. I stuck it out but it became increasingly clear they had no intention of satisfying the mystery lovers’ need for answers. The whole point of fore-shadowing is the pay off of the reveal. The whole point of planning from the start is to have a coherent series of events. All I can say is we watched the show you liked Darlton and I don’t like it. Now I know and I don’t have to watch anything else that you have to offer. The end.
what of Vincent?
If ending was related to some religious stuff then what was the need to do time travel and nuclear bomb explosions etc. Will I trust any scifi series after this or similar to lost? Heck no. I will always have this lost bs at the back of my mind.
Fans let go!!!
I’m satisfied, it really couldn’t have ended any other way…the only thing I don’t get is Jack’s father told him, “some died before you, others way after”…but then the last thing they showed was the 815 plane wreckage, implying that they did not survive the crash.
So if they were all dead since they crashed on the island and were have a mass halucination, what’s with the real world stuff. Didn’t they have a big deal online about Dharma. Did they ever explain any of that? What about the book by a “real” author that Sawyer was reading? If they were all dead does that mean we’re all dead too and imagining everything? What a bad way to end things.
In response to the 815 wreckage, i think they just needed a backdrop for the credits.
[quote comment="375241"]In response to the 815 wreckage, i think they just needed a backdrop for the credits.[/quote]
That’s what I thought too, but I can see how people thought it meant they died in the crash.
So pre-Jacob, his mother was basically protecting the light from any random person who stumbled upon the island. Then for 2000 years, Jacob protected it from MiB. This was a serious threat – MiB apparently knew how to destroy the island. Then after MiB and Jack die, Hurley and Ben protect the island, presumably from random people who stumble upon the island? Who else is alive who knows anything about the island, who would want to harm it? So Hurley and Ben must have it pretty easy, assuming they do find a way that they can come and go from the island whenever they want? Do they reconnect with Eloise Hawking? What does Richard do with his life? He could still be involved in the island’s caretaking.
A few more random thoughts:
How did Jack get out of the hole at the end? Ben & Hurley had given up on him and left him for dead.
Who did help Desmond get out of the well in the previous episode?
Why wasn’t Des & Penny’s son Charlie with them in the church?
Why wasn’t Ji Yeon there?
The whole business of people drinking some water and becoming the island’s protector and the “now you’re like me” all reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail: “Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony”
I think this was the right ending for the show. It was always about the community of characters and how they influence each other and impact each other’s lives and symbolic of how we all do the same.
However, I disagree that the island was “real life” and the flash sideways was after they all died. I think they were both vehicles after death for all of the characters to grow. I believe the island was the vehicle for the characters, together, to come to terms with who they are as people themselves/individually and the flash sideways was the way for them to accept their role as a community. I do agree, tho, that it would have been much more palatable to have Miles and Lapidus and Richard in the church! I think that the timelines are actually one – when the characters died in the island timeline they started the sideways timeline but since in the afterlife time does not matter they all began sideways time together even tho they died at separate times in island time.
overall i think instead of focusing on the details (what is the numbers exactly, etc) the overall ideas and symbolic nature to the show are what makes it so touching. What is the meaning of life and death? Community? What role does religion and spirituality and their balance have in life? it’s like focusing on the letter of the law instead of the spirit…like counting all the rules of the bible and living detailed by them instead of living to its spirit…
[quote comment="375115"]HBO would have never fcked it up like this![/quote]
apparently you’ve never seen The Sopranos or Deadwood.
[quote comment="375242"][quote comment="375241"]In response to the 815 wreckage, i think they just needed a backdrop for the credits.[/quote]
That’s what I thought too, but I can see how people thought it meant they died in the crash.[/quote]
not so sure about that, the backdrop could have been the island itself.
I said it was purgatory after season one. I said they were all dead from the crash. All the other stuff : Dharma, polar bear, Ben, etc. are all just suffering Jack had to go through to get to heaven. My sunk costs were too high to back out. I was right years ago.
P.E.R.F.E.C.T.
I’ve no more to say on it. It has been a great six years. Thanks to all the regulars around here, who’ve made the process an even more interesting journey.
: ) P
Kimmel might have had the best after-episode theory of everyone else I read…All the audience members crying though was literally hysterical…
Awesome … very fitting ending for a totally addictive show … they didn’t answer questions, but that wasn’t the point … pure entertainment. The End felt like it came out of season 1
So PJSaunder, i knew we talked a long way back, so you were satisfied in the end huh?
[quote comment="375244"]A few more random thoughts:
How did Jack get out of the hole at the end? Ben & Hurley had given up on him and left him for dead.[/quote]
He washed through, just like MIB’s body did 2000 years ago.
[quote comment="375244"]Who did help Desmond get out of the well in the previous episode?[/quote]
Rose and Bernard
[quote comment="375244"]Why wasn’t Des & Penny’s son Charlie with them in the church?
Why wasn’t Ji Yeon there?[/quote]
I guess for these two questions, my answer would be that you can’t have everyone’s relative in this location. Jack’s Dad was there, why not Kate’s Mom or Ji Yeon or Charlie Hume or Juliet’s sister? These were all important parts of these people’s lives, but not a part of the “Jack Story” life.
[quote comment="375248"]I said it was purgatory after season one. I said they were all dead from the crash. All the other stuff : Dharma, polar bear, Ben, etc. are all just suffering Jack had to go through to get to heaven. My sunk costs were too high to back out. I was right years ago.[/quote]
It wasn’t purgatory – but you were close
a few things..
why did it matter what flocke did once he became mortal? if he got to the real world he wouldnt have his powers to do all those evil things he supposedly was going to do.
also, how does the ending of season 5 tie into this all. what actually happened when Juliet set off the bomb? because the way they made it seem is that the bomb created the alternate reality, but it didnt kill them?
also, i wish that they would have expanded on what would have happened if smokey got off the island and into the real world. all they said was that everyone they ever knew and loved would die, but i feel like if they expanded on it like saying that he would spread sickness like he did to sayid and claire, that it would have made the story of them trying to keep him on the island and contained in the wine bottle much more interesting
Cannot buy the Shyamalan ending.
Do not get me wrong. Some elements of the finale were very touching. The fact that Jack was only able to envision his past through his father. The coffin. Jack and Kate’s reunion.
To me the ending would have been somewhat more rewarding if Jack had actually gotten his father’s burial. It would have brought closure to the whole series and to the Jack’s character and his quest.
But there is no way in hell (pun intended) I can digest the Shyamalan touch, the ecumenical Church, the easy/sloppy Ghost Whisperer sentimentalism.
sneaker hanging in bamboo in the pilot is new same sneaker still hanging is old lends credence to the theory that the island time was real
The island time was real…People should jump over that hurdle now…
And listen.
I am not one of those how have been whining about lack of answers to certain perennial questions.
One of the features of the show to me was that its narrative verily resembled a myth quite often.
But as someone said earlier, the Church scene was completly unlike Lost.
In retrospect I think I might have also overestimated the writers of the series.
So much great stuff in the plot was reminiscent of great fantastic literature. Wells, Adolfo Bioy Casares…
The dreamlike nature of the island is very reminiscent of Casares island in The Invention of Morel.
In the end it was never literature. Just Tv.
I don’t know what you guys were talking about I thought it was the best 2:30 hours of TV I’ve ever seen.
Thought that Christian not being in the coffin was really surprising.
Best show ever, well done!
Explain these please:
- Walt is special. So special that he will never be seen or heard from again.
- Sonic fence OR Jacob’s ashes will keep out the horrible smoke monster. Take your pick.
- Drink the water, “Now you’re like me.” — But first, let’s make a big deal over a cup. Gots to have a cup. Or there ain’t gonna be a new Jacob.
- Miles can talk with those that have just died. No reason. Just can.
- Jughead blew up. Juliet said, “It worked!” Everyone’s dead now.
- Locke and Hume are philosophers. That’s nice.
- Contributors to this blog must protect it from anyone that may doubt the blessed Darlton — and from anyone that would otherwise plan to do it harm. (Hammer is NOT a candidate.)
- Smoke monster kills Eko with some cool special effects. Writers figure they have plenty ‘o time to explain this. These special effects never to be seen again.
- ABC cancels The Nine, Invasion, and Fast Forward. And everything else that is an hour before or after LOST. (If Lost did not end this season, ABC would have canceled the 11 o’clock news. It’s TRUE.)
- DHARMA supply drop doesn’t stop. It just keeps going plop.
- Hugo makes many fun Star Wars references. These are not the answers you were looking for. Move along.
- Darlton starts sayin’ they are too sleepy to do podcasts.
[quote comment="375234"]I agree, why did they kidnap the kids. WTF were the Others? Why is Walt special? What are the numbers? What? Why?[/quote]
They kidnapped the kids to separate them from ‘corrupt mankind’ the same way Jacob and MIB were kidnapped at birth….this gives them the best possible chance to be candidates to replace Jacob….walt was just another candidate but due to certain circumstances (Michael trading multiple other candidates for him to get him back and leave the island) jacob had to let walt go. Obviously not all candidates work out and Jacob new when it was time to let go. This is the same as him crossing kate’s name off in the cave since she was now a mother.
The show was perfect. If you take the time to really think about everything, there really isn’t much that can’t be explained. Just because certain answers aren’t what you necessarily would want them to be doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
[quote comment="375261"]I don’t know what you guys were talking about I thought it was the best 2:30 hours of TV I’ve ever seen.
Thought that Christian not being in the coffin was really surprising.
Best show ever, well done![/quote]
Surprising, not good.
I think this episode is the epitomy of LOST. Sawyer and Hugo had me laughing. When Hugo said Jacob was worse at giving answers than Yoda I busted out laughing and darn near missed Sawyer say he would go find the magical leprechaun. Classic. The battle between Jack and Locke on the cliff was amazing. Kate comes out of nowhere to save Jack. Emotional love connection scenes. Great acting and diaglogue. The scene with Jack and Locke after the surgery was perfect. The scene at the church with Locke and Ben was great stuff as well. But at the end of the day we were left with unexplainable craziness and tons of questions.
LIPIDUS WASN’T IN THE CHURCH BECAUSE HE WASN’T THE PILOT OF OCEANIC 815. HE OVERSLEPT AND MISSED THE FLIGH & WAS REPLACED BY ANOTHER PILOT WHO LATER KILLED BY THE SMOKE MONSTER
[quote comment="375266"]LIPIDUS WASN’T IN THE CHURCH BECAUSE HE WASN’T THE PILOT OF OCEANIC 815. HE OVERSLEPT AND MISSED THE FLIGH & WAS REPLACED BY ANOTHER PILOT WHO LATER KILLED BY THE SMOKE MONSTER[/quote]
So. Penny wasn’t on the plane either.
[quote comment="375265"]I think this episode is the epitomy of LOST. Sawyer and Hugo had me laughing. When Hugo said Jacob was worse at giving answers than Yoda I busted out laughing and darn near missed Sawyer say he would go find the magical leprechaun. Classic. The battle between Jack and Locke on the cliff was amazing. Kate comes out of nowhere to save Jack. Emotional love connection scenes. Great acting and diaglogue. The scene with Jack and Locke after the surgery was perfect. The scene at the church with Locke and Ben was great stuff as well. But at the end of the day we were left with unexplainable craziness and tons of questions.[/quote]
To me some of season 6 was a descensus ad inferos for the show.
Let me suggest very briefly where I both agree and disagree with those who are frustrated.
I agree with many of the above comments that after tonight’s episode it is obvious that the “plan” the writers had was “what happens is important, because it changes people and that really does happen, but…it doesn’t matter that much what actually happens so long as people change in important ways.”
I think that one’s reaction is largely based upon whether you are in the camp that for something to be important, it doest just have to happen, it also has to be important…or whether you are comfortable that if things happen that end up being important, then they are in fact important. I know that is a bit abstract and stylized, but its my try.
I do agree with most critics however that this episode clearly cast the whole series in camp 2 of my stylized extremes above. It was stupid to try and hide this chosen route with the fake mysticism of the last scene.
If I may, it seems as if there are so far three groups of losties after the finale.
Those who have, for god knows why, just LOVED the finale (maybe for the same reasons Shyamalan is taken to be great cinema)
Those who are very (with varying degrees) unsatisfied with the lack of answers and plot holes.
And some like me who just thought the “surprising” ending was sloppy and lazy.
What happened on the island actually took place. They weren’t meant to die yet. They all died at different points. They subconsciously made the flash sideways to meet before the afterlife. The numbers were the numbers that were haunting Hurley. the dog was some sort of island guide. Look at the shoes in episode 1. The same shoes are aged and tattered in the final episode. Time had taken place. The island exists for real and is a magical place.
First of all thanks to everyone who contributed and read this blog. I found this blog in season 3 and have been following it ever since.
I was initially shocked at the ending. The more I let it set in the more I like it.
The way I see it, if you only see the “island time” without the FSW this season you get a very satisfying open ended “ending.”
I feel the FSW was done more for the fans to get “emotional closure.” It was great to see those flashback moments and Juliet and Sawyer reunited again.
island time = “REAL” ending
FSW = “happily ever after” ending
I guess LOST can have its cake and eat it too…
Once again thanks to everyone and I’ll catch you in another life brotha (or sister)
Exellent ending ,worth all the wait . sad, moving and fulfilled my expectations.Thanks to the web site. hammer,pj,toeknee,lost4ever,misskim, thanks for nothing .bye
So basically if you were watching it more for the all the mystery and sci-fi parts of it like I was…. you feel screwed over like they just bs’d the whole thing.
But if you were watching it more for the character stories and relationships and back stories about their lives.. then you get nice closure and you’re happy with the ending.
Don’t get me wrong, I liked the characters as much as the next person, but there’s no way I would’ve kept watching this show without all the sci-fi island mystery. With just the character stories and their relationships to each other, the show would’ve been horribly boring. At least that’s what i think. That being said, they should’ve answered more questions and neatly wrapped the mysteries up as well IMO.
Ok, here it goes…
What happened on the island really happened, they were alive and real. FSW was a “limbo” world for all the souls to awaken. Someone earlier pointed out correctly, the characters realize that they died maybe a minute difference but that minute could have been 50 yrs in the real world… time does not exist in limbo.
Most ask why we dont see Eko, Walt, Lapidous, etc in the church… the reason is for some reason they did not need someone to help them find their way to the afterlife. They didnt have soulmates or need friends to find their way to the afterlife, or possibly they went to Hell. Either way, the ones in the church needed help finding their way, as Christian said. Also, some just werent ready yet (like Desmond said about Ana Lucia or when David’s mother was worried she was losing Daniel).
The only thing I dont get is the final scene with the airplane wreckage with no one alive, just silence.
I would love to see a follow up spin off show: Hurley & Ben Rule the Island!!
Loved this show, great ending! Want to watch it all over again to catch other things, like I remember Christian telling the dog to go wake Jack up…
Comment 142′s explanation is the BEST!!! IT MAKES SENSE NOW!!!! CHEERS!!!!
Is it really that obvious that the FSW was the afterlife? May be that’s the easiest term to attribute to it, but that’s not what I thought when Christian was telling Jack about it.
I interpreted it to be another reality that really was set off when they exploded the bomb in 1977. I say this because when Juliet dies in Sawyer’s arms her subconsciousness travels to FSW where she sees a glimpse of her conversation with Sawyer at the vending machine. If FSW was in fact death, that means she saw both her and Sawyer in the afterlife, and in fact traveled there before she finally died when she told Sawyer that “it worked”. What worked? Them dying? I don’t think so. Likewise, Desmond told Jack when they were in the light cave that he could take them to a better place. I don’t think it makes much sense for him to say that he wants to take Jack to the afterlife.
When Christian said that we all die at some point I believe that he was trying to say that death is not what’s important. What’s important is redemption. We will all die sooner or later, but what’s important is the peace we find along the way, and the people who have helped us get there. Their journey on the island helped them find peace through the adversity and trial, and the mysteries surrounding the island enhanced their faith. Jack indeed died on the island, but he lives in peace in his other life.
Just finished the Lost finale. I was a Lost fan until the ending tonight. The creators chose the easiest way out. In the end the only things lost were my time invested in viewing and my hope from the beginning that they wouldn’t do what they did to us, using the cheap way out. I am not that surprised that what I hoped was not the case, is just that. There are other shows that lead one on with good story telling only to end up with a stupid climax/result. Lost is no better.
Many people are asking why Miles, Richard, Lapidus, Desmond and Penny’s son, Sun and Jin’s daughter, Walt, etc., were not in the church. Christian told Jack that the time he spent with the people on the island was the most important time of his life, in much the same way Eloise told Desmond several seasons ago during his flashes that pushing the button was the most important thing he’d ever do.
My interpretation is that the group gathered in the church were together at the most important times of their lives. Ben wasn’t ready to go in yet because being a father to Alex was the most important thing he ever did, so he was waiting for her. Richard was likely in the process of finding his wife, the children may have grown up and experienced other important events and therefore had their own groups of people to meet, the freighter team may have done more significant things either before or after the island, Walt may have finally put his special powers to good use, etc. It reminds me of The Last Battle from the Chronicles of Narnia, where people initially end up in different parts of Aslan’s country even when they have been connected in life.
I’m still confused about Eloise, though. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for her to be advising against “moving on.” I can understand her wanting to hang on to Daniel, but why not just let the rest of them go? This makes me think that maybe the footage of the crash site at the very end was meant to imply that “moving on” meant returning to the island. Or maybe seeing the crash site empty meant that the bright light in the church was all of them disappearing into oblivion. But of course we’ll never know!
[quote comment="375218"]Like Sayid. Oh yeah, why Shannon and not Nadia…wait doesn’t he get 30 virgins?[/quote]
You are a racist….
Dear Lost,
Thanks for the really nice story about heaven. But I had been watching a story about a strange island.
What about the gaddam island?!
This was by far the best thing ever shown on film or television, these 2 and a half hours (with commercials). EVER.
I am shocked at how many people are pissed at the ending, or, even worse, are upset for the wrong reasons or can’t figure out easy shit.
Juliet saying “it worked” was a reference to when Juliet told him how to retrieve the candy bar out of the vending machine in FSW when they met up. It wasn’t a reference to the bomb. With her dying words, basically, she had a glimpse into the afterlife.
And why are so many people confused about this plane wreckage that they say is the final scene of the show. For goodness sake people, THE LAST IMAGE OF LOST IS JACK’S EYE CLOSING AND THEN THE SCREEN FLASHES TO THE BLACK “LOST” SCREEN.
Didn’t mean to send that without adding some more stuff…
Tbe brilliance of this show is twofold. One, the characters and the actual drama produced was compelling and amazing. I agree with somebody else that said that this finale reminded them of season 1, which was so character driven. It’s no coincidence that season 1 is generally regarded as the best of the show. Tonight what we saw was truly compelling television, and everybody that I know was crying while watching it tonight on many different occasions. That simply doesn’t happen without characters that truly grab you and stick with you.
And two, the mysteries were a part of what made this show amazing. We talked about them. Debated them. Did this for years. And when they don’t answer every one, many of you complain. Really? So the producers give us a show to discuss and debate unlike anything else ever on TV, and we complain about this? Their goal wasn’t to answer everything. Their goal was to create compelling television, and they did. Lost became a phenomenon largely because of this.
If you’ve watched the entire series from start to finish, this ending actually makes sense. So what if we don’t know all of the answers and some of it is ambiguous? And as compelling as it was, I just do not understand how so many people here seem miffed about it.
I’ll say it again. Tonight’s episode was the single greatest thing to ever appear on television or film.
[quote comment="375282"]
Juliet saying “it worked” was a reference to when Juliet told him how to retrieve the candy bar out of the vending machine in FSW when they met up. It wasn’t a reference to the bomb. With her dying words, basically, she had a glimpse into the afterlife.
[/quote]
I would really like it if this were the explanation, but I don’t think it is. The way that conversation transpired is that Sawyer was holding the dying Juliet, and she said she had something “really really important” to tell him. Then she died. Later Sawyer has Miles find out what Juliet wanted to tell him and Miles says “It worked……That’s what she wanted to tell you. It worked.” If she’s referring to the vending machine, why is it “really really important”?
Favorite alternate ending.
After everyone remembers and hurley becomes the leader, just have a clip of hurley’s face as he wakes up in the nut house. (preferably with the numbers guy sitting next to him saying the numbers)
(Hope I get the quote and reply thing right on this)
[quote comment="375253"][quote comment="375244"]A few more random thoughts:
How did Jack get out of the hole at the end? Ben & Hurley had given up on him and left him for dead.[/quote]
He washed through, just like MIB’s body did 2000 years ago.
[/quote]
I had thought MiB’s body was forced out by the smoke monster. There didn’t seem to be any similar force that would push Jack UP the waterfall, then out of the cave.
[quote comment="375253"]
[quote comment="375244"]Who did help Desmond get out of the well in the previous episode?[/quote]
Rose and Bernard
[/quote]
Oh , yeah. Duh!
[quote comment="375253"]
[quote comment="375244"]Why wasn’t Des & Penny’s son Charlie with them in the church?
Why wasn’t Ji Yeon there?[/quote]
I guess for these two questions, my answer would be that you can’t have everyone’s relative in this location. Jack’s Dad was there, why not Kate’s Mom or Ji Yeon or Charlie Hume or Juliet’s sister? These were all important parts of these people’s lives, but not a part of the “Jack Story” life.[/quote]
Yeah I guess that’s one part of that scene that doesn’t make any sense. Is the scene supposed to be from Jack’s perspective, and a function of his life only, so these are people that were important in his time on the island? And each character will have his or her own post-death event where they meet up with people that were important to their lives – so in Desmond’s case, many of these same charactes would be there, along with Charlie Hume, Eloise Hawking, Daniel Faraday, etc.? Or is it more of a communal event, where all of these people were important to the island and to each other, and by all coming together like this they can now go on to heaven? But if that’s the case we could list many many characters that “should” be there, but why weren’t they?
[quote comment="375273"]Exellent ending ,worth all the wait . sad, moving and fulfilled my expectations.Thanks to the web site. hammer,pj,toeknee,lost4ever,misskim, thanks for nothing .bye[/quote]
You’re welc- hey, what?
[quote comment="375271"]What happened on the island actually took place. They weren’t meant to die yet. They all died at different points. They subconsciously made the flash sideways to meet before the afterlife. The numbers were the numbers that were haunting Hurley. the dog was some sort of island guide. Look at the shoes in episode 1. The same shoes are aged and tattered in the final episode. Time had taken place. The island exists for real and is a magical place.[/quote]
Yes – totally agree with this. The island crash scene at the end was 1. backdrop for credits 2. so we’d all keep blogging about it for weeks 3. absolutely irrelevant. If they showed the dead bodies of Kate, Sawyer, Jack, etc….then it would have meant they died in the original crash. They didn’t – therefore I’m taking Christian literally when he told Jack that there is no “time” after death and everybody dies “sometime.” Some before you…some after you.
Those in the church were there to reunite with the important people in their lives. Those who weren’t there either had more to do (like Ben) or simply didn’t find the island as important to them in their mortal life to hold onto it in the afterlife.
And Jimmy Kimmel was very funny – though I’m regretting staying up so late now.
[quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
[/quote]
Negative nelly? Come on. The emperor has no clothes. When you strip away the mysteries, which don’t make any sense, the plot is pretty juevenile. Jack versus Smokey. Desmond pulls the ‘rock plug’ out and Smokey become mortal again (which they copied from Superman 2), Jack kills Smokey, and Jack puts the ‘rock plug’ back. Sorry I’m not overwhelmed.
Oh and after supposedly not being able to kill the Candidates then Smokey can kill Jack.
Other mysteries … the temple, the spring of life, the infection (Claire & sayid), why sayid supposedly couldn’t let Flocke speak before stabbing him.
To me this ending was EXACTLY the same as in the movie “Jacobs Ladder”. If you didnt see that movie, go see it even though its a good, but not great film.
I dont want to spoil Jacobs Ladder for anyone that didnt see it, but the ending of LOST is exactly the same. It was all about acknowledging that you were dead, accepting it, and getting help from a past loved one to move on.
Ill say something else. For me, knowing the ending now and the direction the writers decided to go, it would have been much more thought provoking if the final Jack scene was a cycle back to the minutes after the original plane crash, and in fact the entire series took place in a matter of minutes, in Jacks mind, and was his personal battle with letting go and dyeing from the original OA815 crash
Still mullin it over but I mostly liked the ending (not my wife). Agree with post #116 completely. SOme other points:
- Believe Jacob’s description of the island. The “cork” blocks the pathway to hell. The interaction of the water and the energy coming from the cork provide the light which is life.
- Jack gets stabbed in the side (similar to spear in Christ who then died for people’s sins?)
[quote comment="375283"]Didn’t mean to send that without adding some more stuff…
Tbe brilliance of this show is twofold. One, the characters and the actual drama produced was compelling and amazing. I agree with somebody else that said that this finale reminded them of season 1, which was so character driven. It’s no coincidence that season 1 is generally regarded as the best of the show. Tonight what we saw was truly compelling television, and everybody that I know was crying while watching it tonight on many different occasions. That simply doesn’t happen without characters that truly grab you and stick with you.
And two, the mysteries were a part of what made this show amazing. We talked about them. Debated them. Did this for years. And when they don’t answer every one, many of you complain. Really? So the producers give us a show to discuss and debate unlike anything else ever on TV, and we complain about this? Their goal wasn’t to answer everything. Their goal was to create compelling television, and they did. Lost became a phenomenon largely because of this.
If you’ve watched the entire series from start to finish, this ending actually makes sense. So what if we don’t know all of the answers and some of it is ambiguous? And as compelling as it was, I just do not understand how so many people here seem miffed about it.
I’ll say it again. Tonight’s episode was the single greatest thing to ever appear on television or film.[/quote]
You talking al lot of shit. The show ended and there where a LOT of questions and we got NOT ONE fucking answer and you talking about the greatest thing to ever appear on television? Come on…
[quote comment="375270"]
And some like me who just thought the “surprising” ending was sloppy and lazy.[/quote]
This is the camp I find myself in. While Lost has been a character-driven show, the incredible plot twists and expanding mythology of the past six seasons equalled – if not surpassed – the character-driven feel of the series.
I am mostly disappointed because the two biggest overarching themes: Good v. Evil and Destine v. Free Will did not play into the finale at all!
I am not even going into other myths that I hoped would be illuminated (i.e. what were Widmore’s intentions, what was time travelling for? why did Faraday confuse everything with his skinny-tie theories, etc). And I never wanted Darlton to answer all of my questions (numbers, Walt, etc),
I nevertheless expected the finale to display continuity. It felt completely detached from everything I invested in. It was sloppy, the ‘awakening scenes’ made me want to puke. At one point I even pondered whether the writers had turned over the finale to some interns to write. The script displayed none of the wittiness and good writing I enjoyed throughout the first 6 seasons.
I almost prefer a Soprano-like ending to this hot mess!
I feel betrayed.
[quote comment="375293"]Still mullin it over but I mostly liked the ending (not my wife).[/quote]
It’s OK – I liked the ending and don’t like my wife either…
Is it oversimplifying it to say the people that watched for the character stories loved the finale and the ones that watched for the sci-fi and mysteries did not? That seems to be what I’m hearing.
LOST was a VERY complicated show with a VERY simple premise. And I loved almost every single minute of it…but then again….I’m a character guy.
It was EPIC alright. EPIC Fail. EPIC waste of time. EPIC not worth the brain power to figure anything out. EPIC way to disrespect your core audience. Darlton was right – once in a lifetime to be part of this – because after this I won’t be watching anything they have to offer. EPIC fail.
oh, and what was that whole bit on Dogan, Lennon and the temple about? Seriously, all I ask for is some continuity.
[quote comment="375295"][quote comment="375270"]
And some like me who just thought the “surprising” ending was sloppy and lazy.[/quote]
This is the camp I find myself in. While Lost has been a character-driven show, the incredible plot twists and expanding mythology of the past six seasons equalled – if not surpassed – the character-driven feel of the series.
[/quote]
I completely agree. It’s great that the show was character-driven, but for the section of the audience who DIDN’T necessarily watch it for the love stories, rather the mysteries, we got utterly screwed.
I UNDERSTAND the ending, I’m just trying to say that I didn’t LIKE it! It didn’t speak to me as to what I was looking for in a finale show.
It’s our fault, really, if we didn’t like the end because we raised D&C on a pedestal to the point that they became rock stars and they probably believed they could do no wrong. I really think they have an attitude of, ‘if you don’t like the ending, then you’re not as smart as us.’
Well, D&C, the jokes on you after that absolutely creepy scene in bed together on the Kimmel show! ‘Lost’ a lot of respect for you after that.
[quote comment="375244"]A few more random thoughts:
How did Jack get out of the hole at the end? Ben & Hurley had given up on him and left him for dead.
Who did help Desmond get out of the well in the previous episode?
Why wasn’t Des & Penny’s son Charlie with them in the church?
Why wasn’t Ji Yeon there?
The whole business of people drinking some water and becoming the island’s protector and the “now you’re like me” all reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail:
“Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony”[/quote]
Jack woke up on the same rock that MIB was on after Jacob threw him in the cave.
Bernard and Rose helped Dez.
And I’m guessing those who weren’t there either were not ready to move on and leave purgatory or they were in Hell. Maybe Ben wasn’t allowed in the church and he was the only one who knew it. Hurley presumably lived on the Island for a long time…if he was like Jacob. So Ben had been waiting for a while. There os the other theory that Ben didn’t want to move on with out Alex. She wasn’t there for some odd reason.
I think Lost came out the way it came in! I loved that it ended with Jack’s eye closing! It was beautiful and they were all able to accept that they really lived. In FSW they all seemed “zombie” like. No real passion, no real emotion.
I liked that Locke told Jack, You don’t have a son. That was powerful.
Once Jack was able to let himself be awaken he was a peace with his life he had.
Not sure why it was those specific people that Jack needed to be with him to usher him into death, but this show in the long run was centered on his path…and the people he met along the way.
[quote comment="375112"]so no walt or michael… and where was frank and alpert and miles in the end church part?[/quote]
Dude, so I heard that Michael doesn’t go to heaven he stays in pergatory or the island where he becomes a part of the other whispering voices. he alludes to it somewhere in earlier seasons.
Still mulling as well–but there were some beautiful moments, and some funny ones.
So, who was David, then? Jack’s opportunity to be the father he wanted his father to be to him? i don’t get that part, even if I get the spiritual REST/MAKE READY of the FSW.
I liked seeing so many of the old characters.
There was a poetry to the end, and Vincent keeping Jack company in death. Good dog!
I think Vincent should have gotten the E-ticket to Paradise/White-Light as well–why the hell not?
LOVED Hurley and Ben as guardians. What kinda Island would Hugo make? Something fun, and not so much D&D. And I agree there should be a James & Miles cop show–they rocked.
The love reunions–aw!
Ben sitting outside the church of everything–kinda sweet and lonely, but OK, too.
I don’t see see the FSW between bit as all Jack related, as other characters had their own wind ups there as well–there was a lot that was good-bye for US the viewers/fans–relationships that might have been if the people had lived, had different opportunities/choices…
[quote comment="375289"][quote comment="375271"]What happened on the island actually took place. They weren’t meant to die yet. They all died at different points. They subconsciously made the flash sideways to meet before the afterlife. The numbers were the numbers that were haunting Hurley. the dog was some sort of island guide. Look at the shoes in episode 1. The same shoes are aged and tattered in the final episode. Time had taken place. The island exists for real and is a magical place.[/quote]
Yes – totally agree with this. The island crash scene at the end was 1. backdrop for credits 2. so we’d all keep blogging about it for weeks 3. absolutely irrelevant. If they showed the dead bodies of Kate, Sawyer, Jack, etc….then it would have meant they died in the original crash. They didn’t – therefore I’m taking Christian literally when he told Jack that there is no “time” after death and everybody dies “sometime.” Some before you…some after you.
Those in the church were there to reunite with the important people in their lives. Those who weren’t there either had more to do (like Ben) or simply didn’t find the island as important to them in their mortal life to hold onto it in the afterlife.
And Jimmy Kimmel was very funny – though I’m regretting staying up so late now.[/quote]
I like this. It would explain why Walt, Echo, and some others weren’t there, but why was Libby there. She only knew those people for a few days.
Ok, after sleeping on it, I think I liked the ending. Two observations:
1. The finale didn’t answer any questions about the Island itself. It only answered some of the questions that were created this season. And it created a lot more questions – to paraphrase mother – the more questions I answer, the more you will have. Foreshadowing, perhaps?
2. The power of the mystical world of Jacob, MIB and the island seem to be diminished by the ending. The island seemed to open up some New and nuanced thoughts on life, morality and death, and perhaps religion. The whole church scene seemed a bit cliche relying on old and common symbols of religion (religious icons, Christian Shepherd, The Light, purgatory, souls, etc).
All in all, it was a good ending with a few tears shed along the way. I am happy to have most answers figured out and understand they cannot answer them all. I almost stopped watching this series mid-way and glad I stuck with it.
Thank you for this blog, it has answered alot of questions for me.
Today, I am so tired. I feel like the day after the Super Bowl.
4 8 15 16 23 42
Totally off subject kind of.Be glad you don’t live near Cleveland(for alot of reasons;insert jokes here).I’m a country boy with just an antenna WEWS ch5 LOST their broadcast signal during The Final Journey and had no feed the rest of the night had to watch the rest out of Youngstown(insert joke here).Antenna comes thru again!LMAO at pay TV
Dude, Ralph from Kevin and Bean has all of the answers! Tune in now
Thank you to all who have left comments over the last 6 years, it has been a great ride. Looking back to that memorable September night some six year ago, it has been my own quest in acquiring peace of mind that I can carry forward. These characters have taught me that cynicism, pessimism, anger, bitterness, hate and a lack of faith all a long road to nowhere. Much like the great John Lennon said, “All you need is love”. Thank you again to the regulars who have enriched this blog over the years, you know who you are. Thanks for the journey Jack, see you in another life brother.
[quote comment="375304"][quote comment="375289"][quote comment="375271"]What happened on the island actually took place. They weren’t meant to die yet. They all died at different points. They subconsciously made the flash sideways to meet before the afterlife. The numbers were the numbers that were haunting Hurley. the dog was some sort of island guide. Look at the shoes in episode 1. The same shoes are aged and tattered in the final episode. Time had taken place. The island exists for real and is a magical place.[/quote]
Yes – totally agree with this. The island crash scene at the end was 1. backdrop for credits 2. so we’d all keep blogging about it for weeks 3. absolutely irrelevant. If they showed the dead bodies of Kate, Sawyer, Jack, etc….then it would have meant they died in the original crash. They didn’t – therefore I’m taking Christian literally when he told Jack that there is no “time” after death and everybody dies “sometime.” Some before you…some after you.
Those in the church were there to reunite with the important people in their lives. Those who weren’t there either had more to do (like Ben) or simply didn’t find the island as important to them in their mortal life to hold onto it in the afterlife.
And Jimmy Kimmel was very funny – though I’m regretting staying up so late now.[/quote]
I like this. It would explain why Walt, Echo, and some others weren’t there, but why was Libby there. She only knew those people for a few days.[/quote]
Libby was there because she had a profound effect on Hurleys life.So are we to gather that Walt is alive and well in the real world now at prep school where John saw him?
I loved it. I feel like I understand a lot. The Jack/Locke fight was THE coolest tv fight scene I’ve ever watched.
The wreckage shown during the credits at the end was pure nostalgia – nothing else. So let’s put that to bed.
Everything that happened on the island was real and they were alive. Jacob proved it.
The FSW is occuring after everyone lived out their entire life. Walt is probably still alive during the FSW. Michael is still in limbo on the island in the FSW. Anyone else not in the church was not ready to move on. Aaron is a baby in the FSW because the “world” they created with their minds is set in 2004.
I’m volunteering to stick around this blog for a while and try to answer any and all questions. I’ll continue to do this job as long as I can. This is . . . this is what I’m supposed to do.
[quote comment="375273"]Exellent ending ,worth all the wait . sad, moving and fulfilled my expectations.Thanks to the web site. hammer,pj,toeknee,lost4ever,misskim, thanks for nothing .bye[/quote]
Bye.
I think trying to figure out what happened will only drive one crazy. For every coherent plot line that one thinks they can come up with, there will be at least 3 major holes to that line.
I’ve seen some people post that they think the folks died (even Jack) at the time of the plane crash, if that is the case, how could they possibly have had that profound an effect on each other, where they would need to find each other in the afterlife? If you believe they died at the plane crash, then you must also believe that all those things that happened on the island were part of the afterlife experience, no?
Why would Eloise think everyone would die, if they were already dead?
If Sayid could just overcome his “infection” by mind over matter, what exactly is the fear of smokey getting loose? Not to mention that he apparently became mortal.
I mean really we could go on and on about the inconsistencies, but then it gets to be too nitpicky. There was no way they could live up to the hype of the finale with all of the loose ends that they introduced. If one adopts the approach, well we shouldn’t be concerned with all of the smaller issues (who determines what is a smaller issue) they failed to address even the larger issues.
They purposefully left those ambiguous, so that everyone could feel they were “right” about whatever idea they had. You get to paint the final picture. By having all this stuff going on, they introduced just enough of a foothold for folks to grab onto and cling to their theories (although I did not think the midget juggling coconut creme pies at the concert was necessary).
It’s tv, it was entertaining, and it was bound to be disappointing, when there is nothing conclusive to write home about.
(Some of you are going to back just to check on the midget juggling creme pies….it’s not there I made that up, BUT because of the craziness, it could just as well have been thrown in).
[quote comment="375190"]I dont understand why in the FSW Jack would be married to Juliet and they would have kid. None of that was real….I just dont get THAT part explain someone please[/quote]
David was part of the “world” they created with their minds. Locke knew this when he told Jack, “You don’t have a son, Jack.”
[quote comment="375172"][quote comment="375156"][quote comment="375119"]For anyone who truly “got” the ending…I need some help on a couple things:
1-What did the plane flying over Jack’s head symbolize? Was that flight 815 in the FSW?
2-I get that the FSW was them all being dead, finding each other, etc. BUT – what was the point of the island? i.e. all 5 other seasons? I really just want to understand it all.[/quote]
1 – they ALL (the group) got off the island in totality.
2 – the island is where the groups go….been gping on for a long time….but if you don’t leave it correctly…God help them all…get it?[/quote]
Hammer, thanks for your response. I’m still not 100% clear what you’re saying about if the groups don’t leave it correctly then God help them all. What do you mean by leaving correctly?[/quote]
Just my take on it Larla, but what I mean is that if they didn’t come up with replacement for protecting the island AND Jack (or whoever) didn’t put the ‘plug’ back in…then they would have failed and would not have been able to move on. I also think that the island would have sunk and no other ‘lonely’ souls would have a chance to redeem themselves and move on. Hence “God help us all.”
[quote comment="375193"]So yes, they were making it up as they went along. There was no resolution planned as they strung out the mysteries. But of all the TV series that end with an abstract “God did it” sort of ending, I have to say that this is the best I’ve seen. The producers don’t deserve a pat on the back though. They could have easily made a story equally moving with an actual resolution, they just couldn’t be bothered.[/quote]
You’ve completely missed the mark. Only thing that was completely known from the start was a general outline of the major pieces of the story. You’re taking it to literally to think that they meant every detail was planned out. It’s impossible to avoid unforeseeable circumstances during a 6 year production that cause you to deviate somewhat here or there. Walt is a prime example.
[quote comment="375314"][quote comment="375190"]I dont understand why in the FSW Jack would be married to Juliet and they would have kid. None of that was real….I just dont get THAT part explain someone please[/quote]
David was part of the “world” they created with their minds. Locke knew this when he told Jack, “You don’t have a son, Jack.”[/quote]
So David just went “poof” and gone when Locke told Jack that he didn’t have a son?
Final 2 cents:
1) It appears from last shot that all died on initial crash and the show was 6 seasons of non-purgatory dead trying to work out their deaths/lives?
2) I was willing to forgive questions if Jacks dad came back to real life at end or if Jack opened the casket to find dead father and all were together “somehow” at funeral reunion. Sorry neither happened.
All in all it was, what it was, GREAT ENTERTAINMENT! and a high bar is set for the next BIG Thing!
My 2 cents: All these people were very passionate about something in their lives like Jack fixing people; Sayid torturing others; Charlie and his band; Sawyer and his father’s death etc etc. In plane crash they all died but felt that they didn’t complete what they were living for and they continued with their lives on island as something never happened. Island gave them chance to fix something like Sawyer killing his father’s killer; Lock able to walk and roam around etc etc.
FSW was their usual life story with same problems and issues; Lock still on chair; Sawyer still looking for his father’s killer etc. Desmond being special realized that and started creating scenarios where people started meeting with each other and made each other realize that they have achieved what they were living for and they all should let go!!
116 – totally agree with what you wrote. It explains really well ONE season of lost…I needed MORE! Based on the finally, Lost could have been a 2 year serie (season 1 and season 6…) so many questions were left unanswered. Some VERY important themes were never really explained – the Dharma initiative, the others and their purpose, why children couldn’t be conceived on the island, the gifts some had (Miles, Hugo, Walt…), the numbers, What did Juliette see when she told Sawyer: It worked!?, who really ordered The Purge…
other smaller questions: what widemore wispered, MIB’s name, how did the statue get on the island!
I needed more answers
[quote comment="375294"][quote comment="375283"]Didn’t mean to send that without adding some more stuff…
Tbe brilliance of this show is twofold. One, the characters and the actual drama produced was compelling and amazing. I agree with somebody else that said that this finale reminded them of season 1, which was so character driven. It’s no coincidence that season 1 is generally regarded as the best of the show. Tonight what we saw was truly compelling television, and everybody that I know was crying while watching it tonight on many different occasions. That simply doesn’t happen without characters that truly grab you and stick with you.
And two, the mysteries were a part of what made this show amazing. We talked about them. Debated them. Did this for years. And when they don’t answer every one, many of you complain. Really? So the producers give us a show to discuss and debate unlike anything else ever on TV, and we complain about this? Their goal wasn’t to answer everything. Their goal was to create compelling television, and they did. Lost became a phenomenon largely because of this.
If you’ve watched the entire series from start to finish, this ending actually makes sense. So what if we don’t know all of the answers and some of it is ambiguous? And as compelling as it was, I just do not understand how so many people here seem miffed about it.
I’ll say it again. Tonight’s episode was the single greatest thing to ever appear on television or film.[/quote]
You talking al lot of shit. The show ended and there where a LOT of questions and we got NOT ONE fucking answer and you talking about the greatest thing to ever appear on television? Come on…[/quote]
@wthcrs, you are in the overwhelming minority my friend. Plenty of answers if you THINK about it. I just pray you can find a “happy place” before “moving on”.
[quote comment="375200"]I’m sorry but I’m very disappointed with the episode. I completely understand the ending and agree with post 116 and the other posts. I think it was a solid end for a show BUT NOT the kind of end that Lost deserves. It was so straightforward and really did not address ANYTHING that came before it. The script was full of holes and sloppy.
I could on and on about what it didn’t answer but I’ll only mention one because others have already pointed them out– why didn’t Jack need to say the incantation with Hurley became the protector? That little script defect set me off for the rest of the episode.
I’ve been such a supporter and feel I’ve been short changed.
Am I the only one who thinks that it was the same ending as when rose died on ” Titanic?”[/quote]
Jack was the new Jacob when he promoted Hurley. It was Jack’s rules the island went by, so that is why he did not have to say the gibberish over the water Hurley drank to become the new protector. Ben even told Hurley, maybe there is a different way of doing things.
Ok so everyone complaining about the ending I don’t get it. Yea there were a lot of questions not answered. But for 6 years we’ve had a great show that so many people fell in love with. And what I liked about the show and I’m sure other people did too is that the in depth look at each character made you feel like you knew these people. And the writers knew that and that’s why it ended the way it did. The ending has closure to the characters and it gives each viewer a lesson in letting go. Yea alot of questions should have been answered but just let go. That what I feel the writers want us to take out of the ending.
[quote comment="375317"][quote comment="375314"][quote comment="375190"]I dont understand why in the FSW Jack would be married to Juliet and they would have kid. None of that was real….I just dont get THAT part explain someone please[/quote]
David was part of the “world” they created with their minds. Locke knew this when he told Jack, “You don’t have a son, Jack.”[/quote]
So David just went “poof” and gone when Locke told Jack that he didn’t have a son?[/quote]
No. He went poof when the group left the church and went into the light.
[quote comment="375296"][quote comment="375293"][/quote]
Is it oversimplifying it to say the people that watched for the character stories loved the finale and the ones that watched for the sci-fi and mysteries did not? [/quote]
I am a sci-fi mystery guy who loved it.
[quote comment="375311"]Walt is probably still alive during the FSW.[/quote]
Everyone exists in the FSW. Everyone is there whether he died in 2004, or 2085. There is no “now” in the FSW. It exists outside of time. This is some 4th dimensions stuff, people. If they weren’t in the church it means they are just not ready to move on, but they are still dead roaming around in FSW.
[quote comment="375318"]Final 2 cents:
1) It appears from last shot that all died on initial crash and the show was 6 seasons of non-purgatory dead trying to work out their deaths/lives?[/quote]
I need help with this…why is everyone saying the scene of the wreckage on the island proves they all died?
If the plane crashed…and they didn’t die…wouldn’t there still be wreckage rusting on the beach? I thought it (along with the rotting white shoe in the bamboo tree) were showing proof that the island time really happened.
[quote comment="375159"]When you guys say the people that aren’t there havent died yet doesn’t make sense. Hurley would have lived longer than anyone being the “protector” of the island.[/quote]
No, because Jack almost dies immediately after he accepts his role from Jacob. Thats why Jacob told him, “as long as you can.”
[quote comment="375326"][quote comment="375311"]Walt is probably still alive during the FSW.[/quote]
Everyone exists in the FSW. Everyone is there whether he died in 2004, or 2085. There is no “now” in the FSW. It exists outside of time. This is some 4th dimensions stuff, people. If they weren’t in the church it means they are just not ready to move on, but they are still dead roaming around in FSW.[/quote]
Michael is definitely not there in the FSW. There is no proof at all that Walt is in the FSW. If a character is not seen in the FSW, then it’s possible they are still alive in the real world.
[quote comment="375190"]I dont understand why in the FSW Jack would be married to Juliet and they would have kid. None of that was real….I just dont get THAT part explain someone please[/quote]
Jack is working out his daddy issues in FSW, which is limbo or pergatory. Remember in flashback he never got along with his dad and resented him, so before he could move on to heaven he had to be a dad and resolve his issues
[quote comment="375327"][quote comment="375318"]
If the plane crashed…and they didn’t die…wouldn’t there still be wreckage rusting on the beach? I thought it (along with the rotting white shoe in the bamboo tree) were showing proof that the island time really happened.[/quote]
The plane wreckage washed washed away by the tide in Season 1. No wreckage remained.
[quote comment="375331"][quote comment="375327"][quote comment="375318"]
If the plane crashed…and they didn’t die…wouldn’t there still be wreckage rusting on the beach? I thought it (along with the rotting white shoe in the bamboo tree) were showing proof that the island time really happened.[/quote]
The plane wreckage washed washed away by the tide in Season 1. No wreckage remained.[/quote]
Hence a few posts that correctly state the wreckage is just a backdrop for the credits that allows us to reflect on the show and feel nostalgic about it. Nothing more. We can move on from that now (I hope).
I dont think that every question had to be answered to make for a good finale. For example, did we really need to know MIB’s name?… no but it made for good tv and made people think and research mythology, etc…
D&C have always said that people should stop trying to “solve the show” and just enjoy it. And of course there are unforseen circumstances that caused them to change things around here and there. Ben was only supposed to be in 3 episodes, but the fans loved him so they changed everything to work Ben in the show. Walt was deemed special, but that was over 6 years ago. You cant use the same “special” boy scenario when he probably has a full grown beard by now.
Now that the show is over you can go back and see that we were given clues that most people chose to ignore because it didnt fit their scenario on how the show should end. Richard said that they were all dead. Jacob has always said that everyone he brings to the island ends up dead and that it will only end once and everything else is progress. The island has been protected for thousands of years… it would have been corny to end it now. When Des went down into the light there was more than one skeleton which shows us that there were people who tried to do what Desmond did.
I think the ending did fit the show and that some of the shots taken at the writers/producers are unjustified.
[quote comment="375177"][quote comment="375164"]One thing I don’t get is why the Island is on the bottom of the ocean in FSW.[/quote]
It was a trick to make us think the bomb worked so we wouldn’t guess the real reason for the flash sideways. Not a bad thing though. I liked how it all worked out.[/quote]
because the bomb worked and it did dislodge the island completely. but we have to remember everytime they turn a donkey wheel, or pull a plug out, they are essentially rebooting the island.
“made each other realize that they have achieved what they were living for and they all should let go!!”
…I think the show (and the writers) were influenced by some profound ideas, like Buddhism (attachment is self punishement) and A Course in Miracles. This place, world, blog, the TV show, each other, is all just what it is, and at the end of our “lives” we will still have questions about that certain one thing that we swear will drive us crazy!!! And those things that drive us crazy are why some can’t/wont let go and accept what is so, and move on (applicable to many things in life, not just the end of life).
Everything is already perfect, whole and complete, our personal refusal to accept this is what keeps us separated.
I was more jealous of the characters meeting those they profoundly loved than anything else. It makes sense to me, all those nit picky details (Walt, numbers, etc) all pale in the face of love.
Thanks for having this blog.
Love you all.
[quote comment="375329"][quote comment="375326"][quote comment="375311"]Walt is probably still alive during the FSW.[/quote]
Everyone exists in the FSW. Everyone is there whether he died in 2004, or 2085. There is no “now” in the FSW. It exists outside of time. This is some 4th dimensions stuff, people. If they weren’t in the church it means they are just not ready to move on, but they are still dead roaming around in FSW.[/quote]
Michael is definitely not there in the FSW. There is no proof at all that Walt is in the FSW. If a character is not seen in the FSW, then it’s possible they are still alive in the real world.[/quote]
hmm..good point. Maybe Walt and Aaron are now the protectors of the island?
I realize everyone has different backgrounds, different religions and different lives. With that being said, I didn’t really think they were going to answer everything.
The great thing is is really can be what you need it to be.
For me it was beautiful. The original timeline happened. The plane crashed! Some died on that crash and some (our losties) survived. They landed on a mysterious island. Maybe the island “saved” some of those people for a reason…those reasons were shown to us in the character centric episodes.
For me, Desmond not pushing the button did have an effect on the crash. But now, many of our losties get to start over as Jack told Kate! They get to make their lives better.
We cannot not explain all of the island’s lore and phenomenon~ it just is! For those that have faith, we don’t have all the answers…you just have to believe.
The FSW was not real and that is why Jack did not really have a son. Maybe it was what they all thought they wanted, but once they were awakened they realized they had lived and in the long run, what beautiful lives they were.
Somehow, these are the people that Jack needed with him at the end and at the time of his death when he closed his eyes, he was at peace with himself and the show came full cirle.
We are born, we live and we all die!
Our eyes open….birth (or rebirth on the island) and our eyes close for one last time….death…and for those of us that chose to believe there is something after…we live on!
[quote comment="375337"]I realize everyone has different backgrounds, different religions and different lives. With that being said, I didn’t really think they were going to answer everything.
The great thing is is really can be what you need it to be.
For me it was beautiful. The original timeline happened. The plane crashed! Some died on that crash and some (our losties) survived. They landed on a mysterious island. Maybe the island “saved” some of those people for a reason…those reasons were shown to us in the character centric episodes.
For me, Desmond not pushing the button did have an effect on the crash. But now, many of our losties get to start over as Jack told Kate! They get to make their lives better.
We cannot not explain all of the island’s lore and phenomenon~ it just is! For those that have faith, we don’t have all the answers…you just have to believe.
The FSW was not real and that is why Jack did not really have a son. Maybe it was what they all thought they wanted, but once they were awakened they realized they had lived and in the long run, what beautiful lives they were.
Somehow, these are the people that Jack needed with him at the end and at the time of his death when he closed his eyes, he was at peace with himself and the show came full cirle.
We are born, we live and we all die!
Our eyes open….birth (or rebirth on the island) and our eyes close for one last time….death…and for those of us that chose to believe there is something after…we live on![/quote]
Very well said.
[quote comment="375329"][quote comment="375326"][quote comment="375311"]Walt is probably still alive during the FSW.[/quote]
Everyone exists in the FSW. Everyone is there whether he died in 2004, or 2085. There is no “now” in the FSW. It exists outside of time. This is some 4th dimensions stuff, people. If they weren’t in the church it means they are just not ready to move on, but they are still dead roaming around in FSW.[/quote]
Michael is definitely not there in the FSW. There is no proof at all that Walt is in the FSW. If a character is not seen in the FSW, then it’s possible they are still alive in the real world.[/quote]
There also wasn’t any proof to say that Michael and Walt were not in the FSW.
Sorry…didn’t mean to have a double negative about the island. Or some misspelled words…tired from staying up so late and tired from the amazing roller coster ride and the thought that it is over! A bit sad, but satisfied.
To all of those who are upset with the way the show ended, I ask one question…Why? Has LOST ever been a show about answers? It has always been a show about love, redemption, and coming to terms with their own demons.
I have seen many posts that are still asking some of the same questions. What are the numbers? A coinsidence. They were the numbers given to candidates, that also happend to show up EVERYWHERE. The reason being…Because. Is that a good answer? It’s neither good or bad. It is what it is. Walt left the island and is having a better life for it. Move on! The FSW was limbo, the rest of the story was real. That is a given. The shoe at the end show us that it was real. That is why they made the effort to show it (and the wreckedge is just a backdrop for the credits as many have stated previously). All the time traveling, DHARMA, smoke monster, etc…where essential to get the characters to the place they needed to be. Why do we need an explanation? Can we really time travel? No. So how can we really explain it?
I think this was the best ending the show could have had. How could we admire D&C if they just gave us a list of explanations. I love the idea of interpretation. It lets us connect with the characters in a more personal way. We all loved the show, otherwise we would not be on this blog. To all you nitpickers, go rewatch all the seasons. While we loved the Sci-fi mystery, it was the writing and the characters that brought it to life. I for one am a fan of how this ended.
[quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
Please tell me what THAT site is, cause I am now reading thru the comments here and agree and understand where these people are coming from.
I have watched LOST from the beginning and knew from the start that the Losties could all be dead and finding there way to some afterlife. But the writers insisted, “No, they’re not dead” But then the last 10 minutes of last night’s show happened. And I am left wondering why they just didnt make this a mini-series, like I thought it was originally. Plane crashes-Weird things happeen to them (doesn’t really matter anyway, since they are all dead and none of it is real)-one by one they meet in the FSW sideways world when they finally realiize they are dead-THE END. WOW, glad they took 6 years to tell that story! The writers had this ending all the long, but the 5 years in between were written just to string us all along.
They could have ended this a hundred different ways(and most of these ways would have been better), and we would all be talking today about how the “clues” were there all long. Today, I feel like all the little stories, the characters, the little nuances and details they put into the show were all just bs. BS!
If this is the ending they wanted, fine, they could have done this story really well in a 2 night 6 hour freakin mini-series. I will not be too proud to say I watched this show. I believe it will get lots of awards and they will have earned them for the acting, minnie storylines. But the overall show, the story that they ended up telling us, was that we were watching a BS show with made up crap to fill the time before they finally decided to end it.
Last week I joked that this may end up with a “Newhart” ending. It turns out, that’s what it was!
[quote comment="375338"][quote comment="375337"]I realize everyone has different backgrounds, different religions and different lives. With that being said, I didn’t really think they were going to answer everything.
The great thing is is really can be what you need it to be.
For me it was beautiful. The original timeline happened. The plane crashed! Some died on that crash and some (our losties) survived. They landed on a mysterious island. Maybe the island “saved” some of those people for a reason…those reasons were shown to us in the character centric episodes.
For me, Desmond not pushing the button did have an effect on the crash. But now, many of our losties get to start over as Jack told Kate! They get to make their lives better.
We cannot not explain all of the island’s lore and phenomenon~ it just is! For those that have faith, we don’t have all the answers…you just have to believe.
The FSW was not real and that is why Jack did not really have a son. Maybe it was what they all thought they wanted, but once they were awakened they realized they had lived and in the long run, what beautiful lives they were.
Somehow, these are the people that Jack needed with him at the end and at the time of his death when he closed his eyes, he was at peace with himself and the show came full cirle.
We are born, we live and we all die!
Our eyes open….birth (or rebirth on the island) and our eyes close for one last time….death…and for those of us that chose to believe there is something after…we live on![/quote]
Very well said.[/quote]
**
Agreed!
[quote comment="375342"][quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
Please tell me what THAT site is, cause I am now reading thru the comments here and agree and understand where these people are coming from.
I have watched LOST from the beginning and knew from the start that the Losties could all be dead and finding there way to some afterlife. But the writers insisted, “No, they’re not dead” But then the last 10 minutes of last night’s show happened.[/quote]
http://www.sl-lost.com
votes are now (10:33 AM Central) 1066-476 “thumbs up”.
D&C did say they were not dead BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT DEAD ON THE ISLAND.
Maybe I’m getting too worked up over this….
[quote comment="375232"]If the FSW was “purgatory” or something along those lines, what did the explosion of the bomb at the end of Season 5 actually accomplish? Based on tonight’s explanation, the bomb explosion didn’t necessarily “create” the FSW, correct? But in the real timeline, the bomb explodes, sending Jack, Sawyer et al from 1977 back to where they are supposed to be chronologically, in other words, to 2007, at a time after the swan station was built and after it was blown up by Desmond turning the fail safe key. Does that mean that the bomb explosion in 1977 was indeed the Incident and the Dharma folks survived it and went on to build the Swan station? So Faraday’s theory in “The Variable” that detonating the H-bomb would change the future and OA815 would never crash was wrong. And his original theory that “whatever happened happened” was correct, and there’s only one timeline that exists and no one can change it?[/quote]
Hey, great questions, but the writers say, who cares? Cause they were all dead and just trying to figure it out all out!! Woo Hoo! Thanks for playing!
[quote comment="375342"][quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
Please tell me what THAT site is, cause I am now reading thru the comments here and agree and understand where these people are coming from.
I have watched LOST from the beginning and knew from the start that the Losties could all be dead and finding there way to some afterlife. But the writers insisted, “No, they’re not dead” But then the last 10 minutes of last night’s show happened. And I am left wondering why they just didnt make this a mini-series, like I thought it was originally. Plane crashes-Weird things happeen to them (doesn’t really matter anyway, since they are all dead and none of it is real)-one by [/quote]
They were not all dead the whole time. Everything happened.
[quote comment="375339"][quote comment="375329"][quote comment="375326"][quote comment="375311"]Walt is probably still alive during the FSW.[/quote]
Everyone exists in the FSW. Everyone is there whether he died in 2004, or 2085. There is no “now” in the FSW. It exists outside of time. This is some 4th dimensions stuff, people. If they weren’t in the church it means they are just not ready to move on, but they are still dead roaming around in FSW.[/quote]
Michael is definitely not there in the FSW. There is no proof at all that Walt is in the FSW. If a character is not seen in the FSW, then it’s possible they are still alive in the real world.[/quote]
There also wasn’t any proof to say that Michael and Walt were not in the FSW.[/quote]
_____________________________________________
Actually, Michael said, “We’re the ones who can’t move on.” That is proof that Michael is unable to leave the island. Michael is NOT in the FSW.
[quote comment="375342"][quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
Please tell me what THAT site is, cause I am now reading thru the comments here and agree and understand where these people are coming from.
I have watched LOST from the beginning and knew from the start that the Losties could all be dead and finding there way to some afterlife. But the writers insisted, “No, they’re not dead” But then the last 10 minutes of last night’s show happened. And I am left wondering why they just didnt make this a mini-series, like I thought it was originally. Plane crashes-Weird things happeen to them (doesn’t really matter anyway, since they are all dead and none of it is real)-one by one they meet in the FSW sideways world when they finally realiize they are dead-THE END. WOW, glad they took 6 years to tell that story! The writers had this ending all the long, but the 5 years in between were written just to string us all along.
They could have ended this a hundred different ways(and most of these ways would have been better), and we would all be talking today about how the “clues” were there all long. Today, I feel like all the little stories, the characters, the little nuances and details they put into the show were all just bs. BS!
If this is the ending they wanted, fine, they could have done this story really well in a 2 night 6 hour freakin mini-series. I will not be too proud to say I watched this show. I believe it will get lots of awards and they will have earned them for the acting, minnie storylines. But the overall show, the story that they ended up telling us, was that we were watching a BS show with made up crap to fill the time before they finally decided to end it.
Last week I joked that this may end up with a “Newhart” ending. It turns out, that’s what it was![/quote]
Ummmmm…….the things that happened to them on the island WERE real. The FSW was limbo. So to say that the weird stuff that happened to them on the island didn’t matter because it wasn’t real is not an accurate statement. The ones that got off the island (all but Jack, Hurley, Ben, and Rose/Bernard, all lived their lives until they died however they died. They all met each other again in the FSW and “moved on” together.
[quote comment="375345"][quote comment="375232"]If the FSW was “purgatory” or something along those lines, what did the explosion of the bomb at the end of Season 5 actually accomplish? Based on tonight’s explanation, the bomb explosion didn’t necessarily “create” the FSW, correct? But in the real timeline, the bomb explodes, sending Jack, Sawyer et al from 1977 back to where they are supposed to be chronologically, in other words, to 2007, at a time after the swan station was built and after it was blown up by Desmond turning the fail safe key. Does that mean that the bomb explosion in 1977 was indeed the Incident and the Dharma folks survived it and went on to build the Swan station? So Faraday’s theory in “The Variable” that detonating the H-bomb would change the future and OA815 would never crash was wrong. And his original theory that “whatever happened happened” was correct, and there’s only one timeline that exists and no one can change it?[/quote]
Hey, great questions, but the writers say, who cares? Cause they were all dead and just trying to figure it out all out!! Woo Hoo!
Thanks for playing![/quote]
I think they answered that question. Desmond told Jack that he can take him to a better place where the plane never crashed… and Jack said “whatever happened, happened. You cant change that.” Daniel, like all of us had a theory… they never said that he was correct.
If you think they were dead the whole time, re-watch the conversation between Christian and Jack…listen to what he says…every sentence…
So,in the FSW, when syaid killed keamy and his men, including michial (guy with the eye patch), does this mean they went to hell?
Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.
[quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
They were not dead the whole time. I am really wondering if some people were watching the same show?!? Everything that happend, happend. The only part that they were “dead”, was this seasons FSW.
[quote comment="375348"][quote comment="375342"][quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
Please tell me what THAT site is, cause I am now reading thru the comments here and agree and understand where these people are coming from.
I have watched LOST from the beginning and knew from the start that the Losties could all be dead and finding there way to some afterlife. But the writers insisted, “No, they’re not dead” But then the last 10 minutes of last night’s show happened. And I am left wondering why they just didnt make this a mini-series, like I thought it was originally. Plane crashes-Weird things happeen to them (doesn’t really matter anyway, since they are all dead and none of it is real)-one by one they meet in the FSW sideways world when they finally realiize they are dead-THE END. WOW, glad they took 6 years to tell that story! The writers had this ending all the long, but the 5 years in between were written just to string us all along.
They could have ended this a hundred different ways(and most of these ways would have been better), and we would all be talking today about how the “clues” were there all long. Today, I feel like all the little stories, the characters, the little nuances and details they put into the show were all just bs. BS!
If this is the ending they wanted, fine, they could have done this story really well in a 2 night 6 hour freakin mini-series. I will not be too proud to say I watched this show. I believe it will get lots of awards and they will have earned them for the acting, minnie storylines. But the overall show, the story that they ended up telling us, was that we were watching a BS show with made up crap to fill the time before they finally decided to end it.
Last week I joked that this may end up with a “Newhart” ending. It turns out, that’s what it was![/quote]
Ummmmm…….the things that happened to them on the island WERE real. The FSW was limbo. So to say that the weird stuff that happened to them on the island didn’t matter because it wasn’t real is not an accurate statement. The ones that got off the island (all but Jack, Hurley, Ben, and Rose/Bernard, all lived their lives until they died however they died. They all met each other again in the FSW and “moved on” together.[/quote]
i think jason is correct but this only explains a very small part of the show, we are left without answers to the majority of questions asked and thats just not fair to all the fans that spent the last six years enthralled in the show.
[quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
IMO, the show, the island was NOT purgatory and they DID survive the crash.
If you think they were dead the whole time, re-watch the conversation between Christian and Jack…listen to what he says…every sentence…
[quote comment="375219"]This show isn’t about Purgotory…it’s about reincarnation![/quote]
Purgatory and reincarnation. Just like in the church it has a little bit of every religion!
[quote comment="375354"][quote comment="375348"][quote comment="375342"][quote comment="375231"]
i think jason is correct but this only explains a very small part of the show, we are left without answers to the majority of questions asked and thats just not fair to all the fans that spent the last six years enthralled in the show.[/quote]
__________________________________
I watched all 6 seasons (I have seasons 1-5 on DVD). Most episodes I watched 2 or 3 times. I feel most questions got answered. Especially questions central to the characters, just like the writers said they would. I feel my life was enriched by this show. Please don’t assume you can speak for all fans or most fans for that matter.
Although I was extremely disappointed with the Finale, at least I think I figured it out. I don’t know if any of you watch the “Ghost Whisperer”, but that’s what the Lost” finale reminded me of. In each episode of the “Ghost Whisperer”, there is a “dead person” and Melinda, (I believe is her name) helps the dead with unfinished business so that they can finally cross over.
I believe “Lost” was along the same line. It focused on what Jack needed to do to cross over and the other cast members supported him in his effort.
The only difference between the “Ghost Whisperer” and “Lost” is that it takes only one episode in the “Ghost Whisperer” to get the dead to cross over and it took 6 seasons for “Lost” to get Jack to do it.
Well that’s my 2 cents.
[quote comment="375356"][quote comment="375219"]This show isn’t about Purgotory…it’s about reincarnation![/quote]
Purgatory and reincarnation. Just like in the church it has a little bit of every religion![/quote]
I am starting to wonder if different religions are seeing all this differently. I look at it the FSW was their souls living a different life…a separate plane/realm(as in Buddhism/Hinduism and rebirth)..and in the end when Jack reached his point of enlightenment/nirvana he met back with the people that had the biggest impact on his life during a time his soul had reached it’s purpose/his universal soul. (They were all their for a reason/purpose.)
Anyway that’s how I saw it all even though i can’t explain it.
Please…someone. Tell me why so many of you believe that during the whole show they were dead? THEY WERE NOT DEAD THE WHOLE TIME. I always thought that many of LOST viewers were intelligent people. I guess I was wrong.
Two things:
1)The shoe. It was weathered, showing that time really happend.
2)Like Hammer said, listen to what christian tell jack. THEY WERE NOT DEAD THE WHOLE TIME!!!!
Please show me one shred of proof that you have found that shows they were dead the whole time and I will submit…
[quote comment="375353"][quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
They were not dead the whole time. I am really wondering if some people were watching the same show?!? Everything that happend, happend. The only part that they were “dead”, was this seasons FSW.[/quote]
I agree. I’m not sure what show a lot of people watched last night. A lot of these unanswered questions are for your interpertation and some just arent relevant to the storyline no matter how much you want to know them.
MIB’s name – did it really matter… nope. Hurley’s lottery numbers – To me it was a metaphor for money cant buy you happiness. I dont need to know what the numbers meant. I dont think they meant anything. Even with all that money he was still unhappy and had a bad relationship w/ his father, just like Jack, Sun, Walt and Locke. If anything the numbers were a clue that Hurley would eventually be the protector. Polar Bear – it was a magical island… get over it. Some people seem to want to know the answers to every little detail. Dharma – what more explanation do you need? Dharma was a symbol of man’s greed and the need to want to explain everything w/ science and then abuse whatever power they obtain. IMO the show is filled w/ metaphors that you either get or dont get. It’s not necessary to spell everything out… there will not be a quiz.
in the end. it doesnt matter.
that was the point of lost, no matter what happens in life, from freaky polar bear to weird light in the center of an island . We all die.
the reason that some couldnt die was perhaps they were waiting to meet the right people.
and when they did was enought for them to be able to wait in the mid-death purgatory area. which EVERYONE is in.
From the begining of the season 6 we saw neaarly all the pervious casts and ppl close to them. Hurleys mother (not father hmmm.) The asian darma guy in everyone loves hurley.
And i think wat they ment about creating their world was everyone had their ‘own life’ interpretation like hurly in this purgatory fake world was rich(real world no) , Sawyer is a cop (real world criminal)
everyone has a different role is some way.
But IF they never met on the island they would have been “Lost” forever.
Thats why Jacob brought them to the island because together they can be “Found” and move on in the after life.
Some of the others i bet that did NOT show up in purgatory (which i thought was smart) is that they have ALREADY moved on to watever higher plane of existance.
anyways i love the comments here and this blog always has helped me solve lost problems over the years. would like to know more on ur interpretation.
Cheers
~Fudfood
[quote comment="375361"][quote comment="375353"][quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
They were not dead the whole time. I am really wondering if some people were watching the same show?!? Everything that happend, happend. The only part that they were “dead”, was this seasons FSW.[/quote]
I agree. I’m not sure what show a lot of people watched last night. A lot of these unanswered questions are for your interpertation and some just arent relevant to the storyline no matter how much you want to know them.
MIB’s name – did it really matter… nope. Hurley’s lottery numbers – To me it was a metaphor for money cant buy you happiness. I dont need to know what the numbers meant. I dont think they meant anything. Even with all that money he was still unhappy and had a bad relationship w/ his father, just like Jack, Sun, Walt and Locke. If anything the numbers were a clue that Hurley would eventually be the protector. Polar Bear – it was a magical island… get over it. Some people seem to want to know the answers to every little detail. Dharma – what more explanation do you need? Dharma was a symbol of man’s greed and the need to want to explain everything w/ science and then abuse whatever power they obtain. IMO the show is filled w/ metaphors that you either get or dont get. It’s not necessary to spell everything out… there will not be a quiz.[/quote]
Thank you JustGuessing. I think we watched the same show!!
[quote comment="375178"][quote comment="375165"][quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
There is no explanation. I beleive comment 116 correctly captures the writers intent. I also believe the writers didn’t have a plot that logically ties together … the whole show is just nonsensical.
The numbers, the dharma initiative, jacob / adam, jacob’s lair, why only richard could speak to jacob, what the island is, why there were hyrogliphics on the light plug, the polar bear, why children couldn’t be born on the island,the others, why the others wanted walt, why wald was specials and why they were testing his blood, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
I don’t think the show is nonsensical. Sure, some of the stuff you mention was filler. Walt and aaron didn’t really matter. So what? The mythology just has to be accepted from what “Mother” said. If the light goes out, all life ends. Some in the Dharma initiative and Others were candidates. Jacob and MIB have been going at this for a long time. It is really about the characters anyway and the mysteries of the island are like a character.[/quote]
Sorry, the show is nonsensical. You want more?
The Island underground, Widemore’s role, what Widemore whispered to Flocke, what the smoke monster was (widemore said he had heard myths), the hatch, the various dharma stations, the time travel, the space travel (e.g. to egypt), the donkey wheel, jacob’s lighthouse, the nuclear bomb, etc, etc, etc.
No one even knows what the island is. Jacob didn’t, Jacob’s crazy mom probably didn’t, Jack didn’t, Hugo certainly didn’t. So any rules can be made up. No explanation required.[/quote] don’t think the rules are something made up, example: “You can’t kill them” because they’re already dead you can’t kill what is already dead. Not a rule you choose to abide by, but a rule that simply “is”
[quote comment="375361"][quote comment="375353"][quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
They were not dead the whole time. I am really wondering if some people were watching the same show?!? Everything that happend, happend. The only part that they were “dead”, was this seasons FSW.[/quote]
I agree. I’m not sure what show a lot of people watched last night. A lot of these unanswered questions are for your interpertation and some just arent relevant to the storyline no matter how much you want to know them.
MIB’s name – did it really matter… nope. Hurley’s lottery numbers – To me it was a metaphor for money cant buy you happiness. I dont need to know what the numbers meant. I dont think they meant anything. Even with all that money he was still unhappy and had a bad relationship w/ his father, just like Jack, Sun, Walt and Locke. If anything the numbers were a clue that Hurley would eventually be the protector. Polar Bear – it was a magical island… get over it. Some people seem to want to know the answers to every little detail. Dharma – what more explanation do you need? Dharma was a symbol of man’s greed and the need to want to explain everything w/ science and then abuse whatever power they obtain. IMO the show is filled w/ metaphors that you either get or dont get. It’s not necessary to spell everything out… there will not be a quiz.[/quote]
I disagree if stuff like why was walt special and why women could not have babies on the island were not part of the story line then why include them at all these were major themes in the earlier series that we are just suppose to forget about and just say they were not relevant you may find that ok but i think its unacceptable.
[quote comment="375334"][quote comment="375177"][quote comment="375164"]One thing I don’t get is why the Island is on the bottom of the ocean in FSW.[/quote]
It was a trick to make us think the bomb worked so we wouldn’t guess the real reason for the flash sideways. Not a bad thing though. I liked how it all worked out.[/quote]
because the bomb worked and it did dislodge the island completely. but we have to remember everytime they turn a donkey wheel, or pull a plug out, they are essentially rebooting the island.[/quote]
It was def a trick…and a brilliant one at that. I almost felt overwhelmed at the end though. I was like…so that whole FSW storyline was about everybody being dead and meeting up at some future point before moving on?
The season did explain why Jacob chose those people, but it didn’t explain what the light was. The writers never said that Jacob was good MIB bad did they?? Honestly I kinda felt bad for MIB when he looked up after Kate shot him…just before Jack kicked him off the cliff. I mean…dude got the crap end of the stick. He found out the woman who raised him was crazy and killed his real mother, then his own brother beat him and threw him in a cave turning him into a monster. As soon as he becomes mortal again he gets killed. I wonder who Jacob is hanging out with now that he’s moved on?? Crazy-mom perhaps. What a weird way to end this series.
Earlier Hammer said he was a sci-fi mystery guy and loved the ending. As a sci-fi mystery guy myself I’m still pissed that they went out of their way to develop Walt and Claire, but left us hanging. Why in season 1 was it such a BIG DEAL that Claire raise Aaron?? Why was it such a BIG DEAL in season 1 to show Walt as a special person?? What test were they performing? If MIB could infect Walt would he be used as some kind of weapon like Dez was for Jack/Jacob??? Why dammit why???
I cant stand it – the whole 6 seasons were soo good, and then to pull a ripoff of another movie not six sense but the one where a person dies, and still thinks they are living but people come to their aid till they realize htey are dead, the Devil Wears Prada young actress was in it – anne hathaway? it sucks. I was soo disapointed. When did they died? From the airline ( why they meet ther others who were in the church – why were they important?? Why the history on Jacob and his brother? I was so psyced till the end – like a flat rock. I knew it would be supernatural, but i thought they would bring it together. Sooo disappointed – i dont know what was real in the series and what was not – what the crash even real? ( Remember Julie wasnt even in the crash – or ben…) Then going off with loved ones? Did Claire have her baby or did the baby die( well , obviously he died, cause he also was in the church). then Ford and all in the plane? Crappy ending to such good writing. Could of been sooo much better – something to really remember than a ripoff of a movie. I dont think i will watch any more episodes of lost – they all die.. What was ben’s number 2 to hurley’s one? what did hurley do as number one?? Dam, i feel line nothing was resolved. Well, my tues nights are now free. Touche to the actors, they were great – writer – looks like you got cold feet at the end. Really blew it.
[quote comment="375182"]For a minute I thought Ben was going to pull a fast one and blow up the church with everyone in it.[/quote]
NOW THAT would have been a good ending.
I also thought;
they should have panned the camera down to the Church basement and there below were all the bad people from LOST having their own little party…
just the opposite to the Hallmark card events going on upstairs.
Keamy and Patchy and Sun’s Dad…Jin’s Mom… could be drunk off their asses and grabbing some strippers ass, Dressing up in the Pastors clothes and doing nasty things with the sacred books & crucifix…etc.
Mrs. Widmore could have been dancing with a Goat…should have brought in Sam Rami to do that portion. God knows it need something funny, creative, and interesting to counter the love fest in the Politically Correct Church.
Most pointless scene;
Bernnie and Rose in their little hideaway.
Jack being all NOBLE in getting fLocke to promise to leave them alone. Right, let’s trust the word of the evil dead. It was ludicrous.
Yeah, I’m with the people here who feel shortchanged.
The show went into the toilet as far as I’m concerned.
I’ll never watch another Network show ever. I could have written a better ending in less time than the show took to air. About half the 2 hours were Flashbacks.
Sorry, but all the gooey reunions were simply boring…
I just got to the point where I didn’t care anymore.
The show ended without any humor or strangeness…
and the fight between Jack and fLocke was absurd cliche;not just once, but TWICE fLocke clobbers Jack with a blow from his free hand at the side with a rock and then a knife.
Like someone mentioned; fLocke has Jack knocked out in the first round and goes off to leave him able to come at him later? That’s one of the most overused Horror show cliches ever…and when I see it in a film I stop watching.
And Jack takes a HUGE knife to the side and can continue on like he’s just sprained an ankle?
“I think I’ll go spelunking now and lift a real heavy stone…” ???
And Jack to Hurley; “you take over now because…well, for no reason other than…well, for no good reason…ok?”.
I got so sick of the crappy music…it just was grating and manipulative. It was like being trapped in an Elevator with a bad Musak tape loop.
Too may characters had this dopey grin on their faces…I guess I would too if I was making the kind of dough they must be getting for staying in Hawaii.
The one thing that took me by surprise is how the scene between Charley and Claire got to me; it was pure corn but somehow worked well for a nanosecond…BUT THEN they diffused the whole thing right away with Claire running off to have her baby backstage. The big relief was there was no singing from Charley.
Looks like his To Do list was limited to;
1. How much Eyeliner can I plaster on TODAY?
2. How shit faced can I get?
I only felt bad for Vincent; I could just see that Hurley was going to have a hard time chasing down the Pigs for grub…but it was surely going to be a lot easier at some point to say; “here doggy!”
Miles went to fix the plane with some Duct tape?
I guess since the plane was “dead” he could ask it how to fix itself?
Missing were any good plane jokes. One of the passengers should have been scrounging around saying; “hey, Airline food sounds pretty good right about now!”
Or someone calmly thumbing through the IN FLIGHT magazine looking intensely interested as the plane starts to roar down the coconut grove. Or picking up a copy of a book left behind; The Autobiography of Leslie Nielsen…
But no, we got a Movie of the week instead;…but we got zip.
And here we had MILES, the quip Master onboard.
If ever a scene was ripe for self parody and moment of fun.
The big reunion was missing some players (as others noted). Missing Ana Lucia and a few others but then they were not paired up with love interests so written off?
Would have been funny to have Ana L. in the back pew french kissing Michael. Well, that’s just the sort of thing I like…if you’re going to have unexplained events…let’s go all the way.
LOST In the end; Tepid, Cliche, Sappy Kitsch, and not much imagination…about the level of a High School writer doing a project for her class in Romance Novels.
ok, the more last nite’s ep sinks in, the easier I can focus on the previous 6 seasons when I thoroughly enjoyed the show (except for the season that focused on tailies — that was plain boring).
I also do like that characters’ stories came in full circle last night. But let’s face it, many of us watched the show because of its mind-bending mythology. Otherwise, why would did we spend countless hours on various blogs trying to make sense of the plot line????
It bothers me that there was not a trace of our obsessions with the DESTINY v. FREE WILL dichotomy yesterday.
Even if Jack ‘chose’ to become the new Jacob, he forced Hurley to be the next protector of the island. Where does that leave us?
I really shouldn’t be bashing the show because I did enjoy it regardless. However, it is a legit bitch to be a little pissed about the season 1 storyline and the way it developed over 6 years. I first season was freakin amazing, suspenseful, unlike anything I’ve seen on tv. Loved the way they kept us going over the next few seasons. Then they went away from Claire and Walt. To me that is HUGE because they made such a big deal about them. And what about Aaron. Was I the only one who thought that when this thing ended it would be involving Aaron?
Wow. Can’t believe how pissed off and let down some of you are. Answers? You want answers? I’m so glad this finale wasn’t 2 1/2 hours of stupid answers being spoonfed to us like they have in a few of the other episodes this season. The mystery was what was exiting all of these years and I’m really glad that those mysteries get to live on. I think that the writers did a great job of doing a “they were all really dead” ending without them all really being dead. Remember that Christian said that he was real and that EVERYTHING Jack ever did was real. I take this to mean the island AND the FSW. Just because they were dead doesn’t mean that it wasn’t real for them. Anyhow, all of the people on here that are mad about this probably never got what this show was about in the first place. Go watch Stargate or something. Maybe they have the answers you are looking for. Great Episode, still wrapping my head around it.
[quote comment="375329"][quote comment="375326"][quote comment="375311"]Walt is probably still alive during the FSW.[/quote]
Everyone exists in the FSW. Everyone is there whether he died in 2004, or 2085. There is no “now” in the FSW. It exists outside of time. This is some 4th dimensions stuff, people. If they weren’t in the church it means they are just not ready to move on, but they are still dead roaming around in FSW.[/quote]
Michael is definitely not there in the FSW. There is no proof at all that Walt is in the FSW. If a character is not seen in the FSW, then it’s possible they are still alive in the real world.[/quote]
Time does not matter in the FSW. Everyone dies at different times, but can be there together. The only people in the church were people that mattered to the person experiencing it at the time. Also, some people don’t need to work through things to move on and probably skip right past the FSW. Oh and Michael is trapped on the island as a whisper and hasn’t moved on yet.
[quote comment="375371"] And what about Aaron. Was I the only one who thought that when this thing ended it would be involving Aaron?[/quote]
I agree that we were led to believe that Aaron was going to be much more consequential than he really was – just like Walt.
Although when I step back, I do see that Aaron played a major role in getting Kate to go back to the island. He also disqualified Kate from being in the running towards Jacob’s replacement. Finally, only by brining up Aaron was Kate able to convince Claire to leave the island.
I agree that the roles Aaron played as outlined above don’t measure up to the hype created around him (remember the oracle in Australia?). Nonetheless he still served some purpose.
I am mostly pissed about Widmore. He was such a major character. What happened?
I believe this is exactly what D&C wanted, they left the story open to interpretation. Some people feel as though everyone died in the initial plane crash, I think these are the people who feel bamboozled. I for one, feel confused, but at the same time satisfied and saddened. I am with the group who thinks the island was REAL and everything that happened was true…I also think that the final wreckage scene was actually the Ajira plane and was shown to signify how Kate and Sawyer died, but there was no Lapidus, Richard or Miles at the church so you can understand my confusion….Right now I am still comming to terms with the fact that LOST is over and these characters that I have come to love no longer exist, except in my head. Its because of my love for this show and everything it has shown me over the past 6 years that I choose not to dwell on all the inconsistantcies and unanswered questions…we knew going into this season and even this finale that there are still questions that needed answers and we were not getting those answers..thats fine with me, this show was about so much more than answers to mysteries…I feel like they brought the show back to its roots with the finale, they brought it back to the characters that we have invested so much time into and I couldnt ask for anything more, other than more episodes of LOST!!!!
[quote comment="375367"]
…. The writers never said that Jacob was good MIB bad did they?? ….
[/quote]
Actually, they did say that MiB was bad, in one of their podcasts. Don’t know if they ever said Jacob was good.
[quote comment="375233"][quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
[quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
One of the other sites I vist has a thumbs up and thumbs down buttom and it’s 328-27 in favor….so what am I missing?
I thought Darlton did a GREAT job of making this feel like the character driven drama that most of us fell in love with in season 1. And for that, I say “job well done”![/quote]
I think this could have been a great ending if the show had progressed the way it did during season one. The problem I have is that it doesn’t jive with the last couple seasons. All the time travel and crap like that became totally unnecessary given this ending. It was an interesting ending and an emotional one as well, but the problem people are having is the fact that many parts of the series were meaningless and very “important” questions never got remotely answered.[/quote]personally, I can’t think of a better heaven than one where all of time and space, all the events that ever happened throughout all lifetimes and worlds, may be easily accessed, traveled to, and experienced with loved ones at your side, what a playground!
More of my interpretation guys, just scroll up to post 375 to see the first part. now this part is complete ramblings of my mind but it makes sense if u let it sink in
—————-
What was weird is the cuts that Jack had in purgatory, i think the way we should watch seson 6 again is in light of that that purgatory world is fake in some ways and at the same time i think its linked to the real world. Or maybe directly to the island world. The island is the only place on earth (maybe) that will help u forfil ur required destiny to move on in the afterlife. or something like that.
But they were chosen by jacob not the island…then hurley must have done the same as well thats why he knew straight away everything because he was jacob #3 longer than jack #2 which was harldy much for him to know the islands secrets.
also ben did not want to move without his daughter…simpleeeee
Now desmond…desmond when that switch(witmores freak machine) went on he knewwwwwww about death or experienced death (light end of tunnel then back) type thing. Thats why he was affected in the purgatory area as well. It was
the key to kick start everything while witmores wife wanted the complete oppostie. to keep her son but he moved on eventually.
The button on a side note was an experiement went wrong. the whole point of them talking about the darma as if they were circus freaks is because they are!!! the only reason they had the haatch and the butoon was a phsycological experiement on some one to see how they would react and work their lives around a button. or so i think. thats all.
just makes the ‘scientists look bad’ – u know science and relegion dont mix. that type thing.
I think the island and purgatory are linked some how. just havent figured how but they are.
—–
end of ramblings
~Fudfood
[quote comment="375345"][quote comment="375232"]If the FSW was “purgatory” or something along those lines, what did the explosion of the bomb at the end of Season 5 actually accomplish? Based on tonight’s explanation, the bomb explosion didn’t necessarily “create” the FSW, correct? But in the real timeline, the bomb explodes, sending Jack, Sawyer et al from 1977 back to where they are supposed to be chronologically, in other words, to 2007, at a time after the swan station was built and after it was blown up by Desmond turning the fail safe key. Does that mean that the bomb explosion in 1977 was indeed the Incident and the Dharma folks survived it and went on to build the Swan station? So Faraday’s theory in “The Variable” that detonating the H-bomb would change the future and OA815 would never crash was wrong. And his original theory that “whatever happened happened” was correct, and there’s only one timeline that exists and no one can change it?[/quote]
Hey, great questions, but the writers say, who cares? Cause they were all dead and just trying to figure it out all out!! Woo Hoo!
Thanks for playing![/quote]
I think this is a really important point and is crucial to the story line. In retrospect Jack’s plan to detonate the bomb may have not had the intended consequences, but it did “work,” as Juliet said before she died. It worked becuase that is the incident that set off an imbalance with the energy of the island, which is why they had to construct the Swan site and keep pushing that button to contain it. This eventually lead to the plane crash when Desmond failed to push the button. Remeber Miles said to Jack in the season 5 finale, “what if, instead of averting the crash, this is what causes it in the first place?” And because the plane crashed on the island, the losties were able to find the redemption they so badly needed, and build a community they would be with till eternity.
[quote comment="375237"]If ending was related to some religious stuff then what was the need to do time travel and nuclear bomb explosions etc. Will I trust any scifi series after this or similar to lost? Heck no. I will always have this lost bs at the back of my mind.[/quote]the most similar thing to Lost would be the film “Jacob’s Ladder”. Is that why we had a ‘Jacob’ in Lost?
So you all think that a plane that breaks apart at several thousand feet up can sustain that many survivors? Really?? I watched every episode. Only once though. I guess you needed to watch the show 2 and 3 times every week to get all the info like some of you master Losties do. I just didn’t have time to do that. Sorry.
The only way any of us could have been truly satisfied is if it didn’t end at all. BEST TELEVISION SHOW EVER!
[quote comment="375366"][quote comment="375361"][quote comment="375353"][quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
They were not dead the whole time. I am really wondering if some people were watching the same show?!? Everything that happend, happend. The only part that they were “dead”, was this seasons FSW.[/quote]
I agree. I’m not sure what show a lot of people watched last night. A lot of these unanswered questions are for your interpertation and some just arent relevant to the storyline no matter how much you want to know them.
MIB’s name – did it really matter… nope. Hurley’s lottery numbers – To me it was a metaphor for money cant buy you happiness. I dont need to know what the numbers meant. I dont think they meant anything. Even with all that money he was still unhappy and had a bad relationship w/ his father, just like Jack, Sun, Walt and Locke. If anything the numbers were a clue that Hurley would eventually be the protector. Polar Bear – it was a magical island… get over it. Some people seem to want to know the answers to every little detail. Dharma – what more explanation do you need? Dharma was a symbol of man’s greed and the need to want to explain everything w/ science and then abuse whatever power they obtain. IMO the show is filled w/ metaphors that you either get or dont get. It’s not necessary to spell everything out… there will not be a quiz.[/quote]
I disagree if stuff like why was walt special and why women could not have babies on the island were not part of the story line then why include them at all these were major themes in the earlier series that we are just suppose to forget about and just say they were not relevant you may find that ok but i think its unacceptable.[/quote]
Not able to have babies on the island – no one comes to the island unless Jacob brings them. Im guessing that this includes being born on the island as well.
Walt being special – Do you know why Hurley can see dead people? or why Miles can hear dead people? or why Jack is special or Locke was special… NO. They just wanted you to know and to use your imagination. IMO Walt was never supposed to be there. He was special because he was a child and he was innocent and had not had a chance to screw up his life. As you can see they did not need him to return on the second flight. Jacob said he made a lot of mistakes. Maybe he couldnt get Michael w/o Walt. Just my opinion and people are of course allowed to have there own. If it is unacceptable to you then that is your opinion, but to me it’s just a tv show that I’ved enjoyed and I dont feel the need to write a report afterwards.
[quote comment="375240"]So if they were all dead since they crashed on the island and were have a mass halucination, what’s with the real world stuff. Didn’t they have a big deal online about Dharma. Did they ever explain any of that? What about the book by a “real” author that Sawyer was reading? If they were all dead does that mean we’re all dead too and imagining everything? What a bad way to end things.[/quote]was the name “Tom Sawyer chosen” because in the Mark Twain story he (or was it Huck Finn?)attended his own funeral? Yeah, I think they had this ending planned from day one…
[quote comment="375374"][quote comment="375371"] And what about Aaron. Was I the only one who thought that when this thing ended it would be involving Aaron?[/quote]
I agree that we were led to believe that Aaron was going to be much more consequential than he really was – just like Walt.
Although when I step back, I do see that Aaron played a major role in getting Kate to go back to the island. He also disqualified Kate from being in the running towards Jacob’s replacement. Finally, only by brining up Aaron was Kate able to convince Claire to leave the island.
I agree that the roles Aaron played as outlined above don’t measure up to the hype created around him (remember the oracle in Australia?). Nonetheless he still served some purpose.
I am mostly pissed about Widmore. He was such a major character. What happened?[/quote]
I agree with you about Widmore as well. A lot of character development for him and the Dharma initiative. Similar to Claire, Walt, and Aaron’s character development. Again, I loved the show, but now mostly because it was really abstract. I mean if you were to re-watch the first season and the last season right now, you would think you were watching two different shows. Way to much storyline going in one direction and ending in another.
[quote comment="375366"][quote comment="375361"][quote comment="375353"][quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
They were not dead the whole time. I am really wondering if some people were watching the same show?!? Everything that happend, happend. The only part that they were “dead”, was this seasons FSW.[/quote]
I agree. I’m not sure what show a lot of people watched last night. A lot of these unanswered questions are for your interpertation and some just arent relevant to the storyline no matter how much you want to know them.
MIB’s name – did it really matter… nope. Hurley’s lottery numbers – To me it was a metaphor for money cant buy you happiness. I dont need to know what the numbers meant. I dont think they meant anything. Even with all that money he was still unhappy and had a bad relationship w/ his father, just like Jack, Sun, Walt and Locke. If anything the numbers were a clue that Hurley would eventually be the protector. Polar Bear – it was a magical island… get over it. Some people seem to want to know the answers to every little detail. Dharma – what more explanation do you need? Dharma was a symbol of man’s greed and the need to want to explain everything w/ science and then abuse whatever power they obtain. IMO the show is filled w/ metaphors that you either get or dont get. It’s not necessary to spell everything out… there will not be a quiz.[/quote]
I disagree if stuff like why was walt special and why women could not have babies on the island were not part of the story line then why include them at all these were major themes in the earlier series that we are just suppose to forget about and just say they were not relevant you may find that ok but i think its unacceptable.[/quote]
**********************
Don’t you think that this show has components that mirror life? I do. The island is no more mysterious than real life. Why do some women have problems getting pregnant? Why do some people get cancer? Why are their child prodigies? Look at some of the brilliant philosophers, musicians, scientists our world has seen.
Life has great mysteries that we do not have all the answers for….
Are we the only planet with life?
How did the dinosaurs die?
Is there a God? I cannot answer those questions for you just as you cannot answer them for me. Some things we have to figure out for ourselves as we all have our own beliefs!
Finally, I can’t count how many de ja vu moments I have, have intertwined my life is with so many people and how I often I hear myself say, “wow, what a small world.”
For me, I don’t need all the answers for the show to be over or for the show to make sense.
The show was about life (and even though we will not all crash on a mysterious island chalk full of crazy time travel, smoke monsters and polar bears, we will all have those moments in life that make us question our very essence and hopefully we too can have peace at the end of ours.
[quote comment="375245"]I think this was the right ending for the show. It was always about the community of characters and how they influence each other and impact each other’s lives and symbolic of how we all do the same.
However, I disagree that the island was “real life” and the flash sideways was after they all died. I think they were both vehicles after death for all of the characters to grow. I believe the island was the vehicle for the characters, together, to come to terms with who they are as people themselves/individually and the flash sideways was the way for them to accept their role as a community. I do agree, tho, that it would have been much more palatable to have Miles and Lapidus and Richard in the church! I think that the timelines are actually one – when the characters died in the island timeline they started the sideways timeline but since in the afterlife time does not matter they all began sideways time together even tho they died at separate times in island time.
overall i think instead of focusing on the details (what is the numbers exactly, etc) the overall ideas and symbolic nature to the show are what makes it so touching. What is the meaning of life and death? Community? What role does religion and spirituality and their balance have in life? it’s like focusing on the letter of the law instead of the spirit…like counting all the rules of the bible and living detailed by them instead of living to its spirit…[/quote]
terms like “alive” and “dead” are meaningless, they simply ‘exist’ in one world or the other, a world of illusion or a world of nonillusion, and as A Course in Miracles suggests, the only thing real is “love” and it is Love they arrived to at the end.
[quote comment="375360"]Please…someone. Tell me why so many of you believe that during the whole show they were dead? THEY WERE NOT DEAD THE WHOLE TIME. I always thought that many of LOST viewers were intelligent people. I guess I was wrong.
Two things:
1)The shoe. It was weathered, showing that time really happend.
2)Like Hammer said, listen to what christian tell jack. THEY WERE NOT DEAD THE WHOLE TIME!!!!
Please show me one shred of proof that you have found that shows they were dead the whole time and I will submit…[/quote]
Seriously?? NOW you begin to wonder if people at this site are intelligent? Most of these people spent the better part of 6 years discussing a TV show. Yes, a TV show!
Again, I loved this show. Started reading this blog earlier this season. Loved the first 140 minutes of last night’s show. I certainly don’t care that there were minor questions unanswered, they were simply not important enough to the whole story. I get that. I get the ending they gave us last night. I just don’t like it. Perfect? Not even close, but, then again, nothing is. Because you feel it fits with the rest of the story (ie previous 6 years)? My contention is that there were so many idiosyncrasies throughout the whole 6 seasons that any number of endings could have taken place that would have ‘synced’ everything up. I mean think about it. As the show was progressing last night, be honest, did you really think this was THE only way they could end this?? I know I didn’t. I was thinking any number of ways would work just fine. I guess If you want to slam my intelligence, go ahead. But Christian out of the box, of course, led to 1 conclusion, the one that was told.
They weren’t waiting for Jack to die. They were waiting for him to “be ready”–maybe to accept that he was dead?
[quote comment="375383"][quote comment="375366"][quote comment="375361"][quote comment="375353"][quote comment="375352"]Well, I was dissapointed with the ending because we asked years ago if this was purgatory and if they were really dead and the producers said no, that’s not what this is. In any event, I always asked the same question: How could a plane that high break apart into 2 and people survive? That scene was shown over and over through the years. The answer we now have is no, they didn’t survive the initial plane crash. But they were lost souls so they couldn’t move on. I’ll miss Lost. Hopefully, there will be a TV movie in a couple years that explains things in a better way.[/quote]
They were not dead the whole time. I am really wondering if some people were watching the same show?!? Everything that happend, happend. The only part that they were “dead”, was this seasons FSW.[/quote]
I agree. I’m not sure what show a lot of people watched last night. A lot of these unanswered questions are for your interpertation and some just arent relevant to the storyline no matter how much you want to know them.
MIB’s name – did it really matter… nope. Hurley’s lottery numbers – To me it was a metaphor for money cant buy you happiness. I dont need to know what the numbers meant. I dont think they meant anything. Even with all that money he was still unhappy and had a bad relationship w/ his father, just like Jack, Sun, Walt and Locke. If anything the numbers were a clue that Hurley would eventually be the protector. Polar Bear – it was a magical island… get over it. Some people seem to want to know the answers to every little detail. Dharma – what more explanation do you need? Dharma was a symbol of man’s greed and the need to want to explain everything w/ science and then abuse whatever power they obtain. IMO the show is filled w/ metaphors that you either get or dont get. It’s not necessary to spell everything out… there will not be a quiz.[/quote]
I disagree if stuff like why was walt special and why women could not have babies on the island were not part of the story line then why include them at all these were major themes in the earlier series that we are just suppose to forget about and just say they were not relevant you may find that ok but i think its unacceptable.[/quote]
Not able to have babies on the island – no one comes to the island unless Jacob brings them. Im guessing that this includes being born on the island as well.
Walt being special – Do you know why Hurley can see dead people? or why Miles can hear dead people? or why Jack is special or Locke was special… NO. They just wanted you to know and to use your imagination. IMO Walt was never supposed to be there. He was special because he was a child and he was innocent and had not had a chance to screw up his life. As you can see they did not need him to return on the second flight. Jacob said he made a lot of mistakes. Maybe he couldnt get Michael w/o Walt. Just my opinion and people are of course allowed to have there own. If it is unacceptable to you then that is your opinion, but to me it’s just a tv show that I’ved enjoyed and I dont feel the need to write a report afterwards.[/quote]
That’s not rue. Walt wasn’t special because he was young and innocent. They specifically showed us a lot of clues so we wouldn’t have to use our imaginations, but then dropped it completely. Remember when Walt was laying on the floor at his house in Australia. He got upset that no one would answer him. He starting speaking louder and then a bird smashed it’s head into the window…the same exact bird he was reading about. He was reading a comic that had polar-bears…a fregin Polar Bear was on the Island. And lastly, expalin this smart people who know it all, why could Walt project himself onto the Island after he left. He could access the Island and project himself to communicate with people…astral projection without being dead. You heard the whispers before he showed himself to Shannon and Sayid in the rain. We were told the whisperers were dead people in Limbo. Walt was alive. They proved to us in the beginning that Walt was special, but then they left us hanging…AND that my friend is why people are pissed off/ disappointed.
Oh and Michael is trapped on the island as a whisper and hasn’t moved on yet.[/quote]
And it seems that those who are trapped there are forever trapped there (?) perhaps there is no redemption for them–or can the rules change? “Those were Jacob’s rules,” Hurley was told–maybe he can establish new rules.
NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER THAT RICHARD SAID “WE’RE ALL DEAD” & REMEMBER MICHAEL SAID” WE’RE THE ONES WHO CANT MOVE ON”
I STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL DIED ON THAT FIRST PLANE CRASH & THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY.
[quote comment="375381"]So you all think that a plane that breaks apart at several thousand feet up can sustain that many survivors? Really?? I watched every episode. Only once though. I guess you needed to watch the show 2 and 3 times every week to get all the info like some of you master Losties do. I just didn’t have time to do that. Sorry.[/quote]
You are a piece of work, aren’t you? Why are you wasting your time on this blog? Let me spell this out for you, this show is FICTION. In a work of fiction this stuff CAN happen. What grade are you in?
I was very satisfied with last night’s series finale. I thought it fit with the style of this last season. Some wrapping up, some questions answered. The finale brought many pieces together as couples were connected and we learned the big picture of the whole series. I took it that the characters died in the plane crash and went to purgatory (or limbo) as the island and worked out redemption for themselves before moving on to heaven. (You can see more of my thoughts on my blog: zookyworld.wordpress.com). Thanks to the writers of Lost! You guys did an awesome job!
[quote comment="375271"]What happened on the island actually took place. They weren’t meant to die yet. They all died at different points. They subconsciously made the flash sideways to meet before the afterlife. The numbers were the numbers that were haunting Hurley. the dog was some sort of island guide. Look at the shoes in episode 1. The same shoes are aged and tattered in the final episode. Time had taken place. The island exists for real and is a magical place.[/quote]sneakers? Walkabout?
NOW I CAN WAIT & WATCH A REAL SHOW LIKE SPARTACUS:BLOOD & SAND……….their season 1 finale was better than Lost season finale.
Prison Break season finale was better than Lost seaon finale.
LOL @ PEOPLE SAYING THEY WERE NOT ALL DEAD BECAUSE OF WHAT JACK’S FATHER SAID. BULLSHIT IF YOU WATCHED SEASONS 1,2 & 3.
It seems there were several baby scenarios.
Dharma women could have babies, because the Dharma people were not called by Jacob, they came on their own.
It is shown that “Other” women could not have babies after Jughead. I assumed that was because of something related to the nuclear bomb or electromagnetism being released.
The only women I recall seeing pg on the Island pre-Jughead were Eloise Hawking, who left the Island after killing Daniel, and Jacob & MIB’s mother. So far as we know, women had no problem bringing a pg to term on the island before 1977.
Yes, Dharma women typically left the island to give birth, but shortly before imminent arrival. The Other women who miscarried appeared to be in the 2nd trimester.
[quote comment="375392"]NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER THAT RICHARD SAID “WE’RE ALL DEAD” & REMEMBER MICHAEL SAID” WE’RE THE ONES WHO CANT MOVE ON”
I STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL DIED ON THAT FIRST PLANE CRASH & THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY.[/quote]
****************
I guess this is what makes it so great. That you can shout it out in all caps to all of us that they died!
AND I CAN DO THE SAME THING. IT IS JUST THAT I DISAGREE WITH YOU. WHAT HAPPENED HAPPENED! THEY ALL LIVED AND THEY ALL DIED AT VARIOUS TIMES AND AT VARIOUS AGES.
We are all in two camps just like so many of our losties have been for 6 years. You live at the beach or in a cave. You go with Locke or stay with Jack.
The show left it up to your imagination, and your own interpretation:)
[quote comment="375394"]I was very satisfied with last night’s series finale. I thought it fit with the style of this last season. Some wrapping up, some questions answered. The finale brought many pieces together as couples were connected and we learned the big picture of the whole series. I took it that the characters died in the plane crash and went to purgatory (or limbo) as the island and worked out redemption for themselves before moving on to heaven. (You can see more of my thoughts on my blog: zookyworld.wordpress.com). Thanks to the writers of Lost! You guys did an awesome job![/quote]
So if they all died in the crash then what happened to them when they died after the crash? Was this because the reached a point were they could move on? What about Michael? He couldn’t die/ kill himself. Then Christian told him he could “go now” and he died. He later showed up as ghost and helped Hurley> he told Hurley he was in limbo. So…your saying Michael died twice or that he’s in a different level of purgatory??? I don’t think so Zook. Great site though.
Those who keep commenting about Richard’s comment “we’re all dead” comment should go back and watch the episode that centered around Richard this season. He thought that was the case, but by the end of that episode realized that it wasn’t the case.
I hated the end. It was as if Pamela Ewing had opened her shower door and the entire cast of Lost was waiting inside.
[quote comment="375277"]Is it really that obvious that the FSW was the afterlife? May be that’s the easiest term to attribute to it, but that’s not what I thought when Christian was telling Jack about it.
I interpreted it to be another reality that really was set off when they exploded the bomb in 1977. I say this because when Juliet dies in Sawyer’s arms her subconsciousness travels to FSW where she sees a glimpse of her conversation with Sawyer at the vending machine. If FSW was in fact death, that means she saw both her and Sawyer in the afterlife, and in fact traveled there before she finally died when she told Sawyer that “it worked”. What worked? Them dying? I don’t think so. Likewise, Desmond told Jack when they were in the light cave that he could take them to a better place. I don’t think it makes much sense for him to say that he wants to take Jack to the afterlife.
When Christian said that we all die at some point I believe that he was trying to say that death is not what’s important. What’s important is redemption. We will all die sooner or later, but what’s important is the peace we find along the way, and the people who have helped us get there. Their journey on the island helped them find peace through the adversity and trial, and the mysteries surrounding the island enhanced their faith. Jack indeed died on the island, but he lives in peace in his other life.[/quote]quoting Julia, what “worked” is the Universe’s plan/technique for delivering us to our lovedoneseternal/heaven at the conclusion of our trials/growthintolove (all citizens of heaven, if it be a heaven, must know (have learned) how to love correctly/perfectly
[quote comment="375393"][quote comment="375381"]So you all think that a plane that breaks apart at several thousand feet up can sustain that many survivors? Really?? I watched every episode. Only once though. I guess you needed to watch the show 2 and 3 times every week to get all the info like some of you master Losties do. I just didn’t have time to do that. Sorry.[/quote]
You are a piece of work, aren’t you? Why are you wasting your time on this blog? Let me spell this out for you, this show is FICTION. In a work of fiction this stuff CAN happen. What grade are you in?[/quote]
4th. Do you know how hard it is to stay up so late and not get busted by mom? Why are you so nasty? Stranger alert! Stranger alert!!
[quote comment="375336"][quote comment="375329"][quote comment="375326"][quote comment="375311"]Walt is probably still alive during the FSW.[/quote]
Everyone exists in the FSW. Everyone is there whether he died in 2004, or 2085. There is no “now” in the FSW. It exists outside of time. This is some 4th dimensions stuff, people. If they weren’t in the church it means they are just not ready to move on, but they are still dead roaming around in FSW.[/quote]
Michael is definitely not there in the FSW. There is no proof at all that Walt is in the FSW. If a character is not seen in the FSW, then it’s possible they are still alive in the real world.[/quote]
hmm..good point. Maybe Walt and Aaron are now the protectors of the island?[/quote]
I wonder if we were seeing only Jack’s FSW, and Walt wasn’t as important a character in Jack’s life. Aaron, assuming he’d grown to adulthood, would choose to surround himself with an entirely different group of people – Claire, his grandmother, maybe Kate, his S.O., his friends… Who says we have to be in only one group? Maybe when Ben is ready, Hurley, Locke & Jack will travel with him.
[quote comment="375392"]NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER THAT RICHARD SAID “WE’RE ALL DEAD” & REMEMBER MICHAEL SAID” WE’RE THE ONES WHO CANT MOVE ON”
I STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL DIED ON THAT FIRST PLANE CRASH & THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY.[/quote]
___________________________________
How can you believe that? Did you turn it off when Christian was talking to Jack?
Why did the grass never grow? Why was the light not bright white? They fired guns a ton where were they getting the bullets? A lot of questions being asked that even if you knew the answers would not affect the ending of the show. Some of you guys seem so unhappy that maybe the protector will choose you as a candidate.
[quote comment="375398"][quote comment="375392"]NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER THAT RICHARD SAID “WE’RE ALL DEAD” & REMEMBER MICHAEL SAID” WE’RE THE ONES WHO CANT MOVE ON”
I STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL DIED ON THAT FIRST PLANE CRASH & THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY.[/quote]
****************
I guess this is what makes it so great. That you can shout it out in all caps to all of us that they died!
AND I CAN DO THE SAME THING. IT IS JUST THAT I DISAGREE WITH YOU. WHAT HAPPENED HAPPENED! THEY ALL LIVED AND THEY ALL DIED AT VARIOUS TIMES AND AT VARIOUS AGES.
We are all in two camps just like so many of our losties have been for 6 years. You live at the beach or in a cave. You go with Locke or stay with Jack.
The show left it up to your imagination, and your own interpretation:)[/quote]
I DONT KNOW WHY WE’RE YELLING. I love lamp.
[quote comment="375392"]NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER THAT RICHARD SAID “WE’RE ALL DEAD” & REMEMBER MICHAEL SAID” WE’RE THE ONES WHO CANT MOVE ON”
I STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL DIED ON THAT FIRST PLANE CRASH & THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY.[/quote]
Last night Richard said something like “I just realized I don’t want to die”, implying he’s alive.
ok so everybody agrees that everything that happened on the Island was REAL right????????
So that means THE ISLAND STILL EXISTS????
[quote comment="375409"]ok so everybody agrees that everything that happened on the Island was REAL right????????
So that means THE ISLAND STILL EXISTS????[/quote]
Yes, the island still exists….i wonder who hurley picked as his successor…..maybe it was his geek friend that worked with him in the chicken restaurant.
[quote comment="375409"]ok so everybody agrees that everything that happened on the Island was REAL right????????
So that means THE ISLAND STILL EXISTS????[/quote]
YES!!!
[quote comment="375392"]NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER THAT RICHARD SAID “WE’RE ALL DEAD” & REMEMBER MICHAEL SAID” WE’RE THE ONES WHO CANT MOVE ON”
I STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL DIED ON THAT FIRST PLANE CRASH & THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY.[/quote]
He was jaded…..and wrong.
No brian k vaughn writing and producing for the last season = fail. Read his stuff, im sure he could have come up with a better ending then “they were all dead, cauzse we all die” scenario. I give the finale a c-
WHATS WITH THE NUMBERS?!?!?!?!?!? you coulda at least answered that( were they the plane flight seat #’s???)
[quote comment="375402"][quote comment="375277"]Is it really that obvious that the FSW was the afterlife? May be that’s the easiest term to attribute to it, but that’s not what I thought when Christian was telling Jack about it.
I interpreted it to be another reality that really was set off when they exploded the bomb in 1977. I say this because when Juliet dies in Sawyer’s arms her subconsciousness travels to FSW where she sees a glimpse of her conversation with Sawyer at the vending machine. If FSW was in fact death, that means she saw both her and Sawyer in the afterlife, and in fact traveled there before she finally died when she told Sawyer that “it worked”. What worked? Them dying? I don’t think so. Likewise, Desmond told Jack when they were in the light cave that he could take them to a better place. I don’t think it makes much sense for him to say that he wants to take Jack to the afterlife.
When Christian said that we all die at some point I believe that he was trying to say that death is not what’s important. What’s important is redemption. We will all die sooner or later, but what’s important is the peace we find along the way, and the people who have helped us get there. Their journey on the island helped them find peace through the adversity and trial, and the mysteries surrounding the island enhanced their faith. Jack indeed died on the island, but he lives in peace in his other life.[/quote]quoting Julia, what “worked” is the Universe’s plan/technique for delivering us to our lovedoneseternal/heaven at the conclusion of our trials/growthintolove (all citizens of heaven, if it be a heaven, must know (have learned) how to love correctly/perfectly[/quote]
Thanks. I think I get it now! I talked about my revised interpretation of ‘what worked’ in comment 391. It all makes sense now, and in a very beautiful way.
[quote comment="375389"]They weren’t waiting for Jack to die. They were waiting for him to “be ready”–maybe to accept that he was dead?[/quote]
Yes, but they all became ‘ready’ within FSW days of each other. Some of them were still alive when Jack died (Hugo, Ben, all the folks on the plane flying over Jack), there is no ‘time’ in the FSW so we don’t know ‘when’ he became ready.
[quote comment="375415"][quote comment="375389"]They weren’t waiting for Jack to die. They were waiting for him to “be ready”–maybe to accept that he was dead?[/quote]
Yes, but they all became ‘ready’ within FSW days of each other. Some of them were still alive when Jack died (Hugo, Ben, all the folks on the plane flying over Jack), there is no ‘time’ in the FSW so we don’t know ‘when’ he became ready.[/quote]
So did Jack’s son never exist? I mean, isn’t he going to be wondering where his mom and dad went? Poor kid:(
I don’t think its accurate to say certain characters aren’t there because they’re not dead yet. Everyone who could have possibly been in that church, WAS there. Time doesn’t exist in that world, you don’t wait around for people. Everyone was on the same time line in the FSW even though some died LONG before others (think Boone and Hurley). So I think it’s safe to say that if Walt could have been there, even if he died much later than any of the castaways, he would have been there just the same. Its just a question of how profound an effect that character had on the others’ lives. Walt and the other missing castaways probably had their own unique reunions, with other characters we’ve never met who affected their lives the most.
It even makes sense that Aaron wasn’t there, I mean Claire was his mother yes, but if you think about it, Jack was the only one who was reunited with a parent.
Share your thoughts of the finale on http://www.nychdr.com/lost/#more-769
[quote comment="375414"][quote comment="375402"][quote comment="375277"][/quote]quoting Julia, what “worked” is the Universe’s plan/technique for delivering us to our lovedoneseternal/heaven at the conclusion of our trials/growthintolove (all citizens of heaven, if it be a heaven, must know (have learned) how to love correctly/perfectly[/quote]
Thanks. I think I get it now! I talked about my revised interpretation of ‘what worked’ in comment 391. It all makes sense now, and in a very beautiful way.[/quote]
Or…”It worked.” Same line Juliette said to cop Sawyer when she got the Apollo bar out.
Maybe it was akin to the coffee comments?
LOL
[quote comment="375283"]Didn’t mean to send that without adding some more stuff…
Tbe brilliance of this show is twofold. One, the characters and the actual drama produced was compelling and amazing. I agree with somebody else that said that this finale reminded them of season 1, which was so character driven. It’s no coincidence that season 1 is generally regarded as the best of the show. Tonight what we saw was truly compelling television, and everybody that I know was crying while watching it tonight on many different occasions. That simply doesn’t happen without characters that truly grab you and stick with you.
And two, the mysteries were a part of what made this show amazing. We talked about them. Debated them. Did this for years. And when they don’t answer every one, many of you complain. Really? So the producers give us a show to discuss and debate unlike anything else ever on TV, and we complain about this? Their goal wasn’t to answer everything. Their goal was to create compelling television, and they did. Lost became a phenomenon largely because of this.
If you’ve watched the entire series from start to finish, this ending actually makes sense. So what if we don’t know all of the answers and some of it is ambiguous? And as compelling as it was, I just do not understand how so many people here seem miffed about it.
I’ll say it again. Tonight’s episode was the single greatest thing to ever appear on television or film.[/quote]
I totally agree. If you think about it, there are many things in life we never find answers for. Things happen, we go on about our life and never know how various things develop or are resolved. Some things baffle us and remain a mystery. Many have some rather spooky or weird experiences we cannot explain. People come and go in our lives without us knowing what they do in their lives. We accept these things in life, but not in LOST?
I have been saying for years and still believe it….BEST TV SHOW EVER! Thanks to all who contributed to it. You enriched my life.
My main question regarding the FSW is what happened to the people who were killed there? Like Keamy and his goons. Were they in purgatory as well? What happens when you die there? Or are their souls stuck on the island like Michael’s, and the Keamy we saw was just a figment of the construct.
[quote comment="375337"]….
Somehow, these are the people that Jack needed with him at the end and at the time of his death when he closed his eyes, he was at peace with himself and the show came full circle.
We are born, we live and we all die!
Our eyes open….birth (or rebirth on the island) and our eyes close for one last time….death…and for those of us that chose to believe there is something after…we live on![/quote]
Nice, Miss Lost!
I think I got what the ending is about. I understand what the writer wants us to know. However, this is “lost”. I want to have answers to so many questions that have been brought up over 6 seasons. It is a shame that they didn’t even try to answer that. I was so believing in the writer’s capability to tie things up. I guess I was wrong. The ending is not “lost”.
[quote comment="375413"]No brian k vaughn writing and producing for the last season = fail. Read his stuff, im sure he could have come up with a better ending then “they were all dead, cauzse we all die” scenario. I give the finale a c-
[/quote]
Thankfully D&C came up with a better ending than “they were all dead” too.
[quote comment="375413"]
WHATS WITH THE NUMBERS?!?!?!?!?!? you coulda at least answered that( were they the plane flight seat #’s???)[/quote]
The numbers were explained. Earlier this season, they were revealed to be the numbers assigned to the candidates Locke, Jack, Sawyer, etc. Alternately, in one of the between-season alternate reality games the numbers were revealed to be factors in the Valenzetti Equation, which you can read more about at Lostpedia.com.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ending and decide whether I liked it, or whether it was like discovering that Santa is not real (still love x-mas, but the magic ‘s gone).
The one thing that bothers me the most is that Sayid was with Shannon in the end, and not Nadia. He wanted to be with Nadia before he got on the island, when he left as part of the o6, in the fsw….. And then he enters the happy ever after with Shannon? Anyone can explain that one to me?
[quote comment="375425"]I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ending and decide whether I liked it, or whether it was like discovering that Santa is not real (still love x-mas, but the magic ‘s gone).
The one thing that bothers me the most is that Sayid was with Shannon in the end, and not Nadia. He wanted to be with Nadia before he got on the island, when he left as part of the o6, in the fsw….. And then he enters the happy ever after with Shannon? Anyone can explain that one to me?[/quote]
“letting go” was a pretty major theme of the FSW world. Maybe Naudia was one of those things Sayid had to let go of in order to move on, and Shannon was a kind of fresh start.
So the “sideways” world was a type of “purgatory” which was created by the people in the church so they could “move on” to the next “life” together (whether that’s the afterlife or reincarnation we’ll never know). I guess we will also never know why some people were there and some weren’t. And how they created it.
I really don’t think everything that happened in the “real” world (the island) was pointless. What was done still saved the world. The Dharma initiative existed, they crashed, there was time-travel, etc. So essentially there are 2 separate stories/plots that have entwined. The real world and the sideways world. You can’t say that what we have watched was for not. They did save the world!
As for the infection – that was a test to see if good prevailed in the person…it obviously did for Sayid and he was there with his pals to “move on”.
The psychic told Claire that she must raise Aaron – if she listened to him then maybe she wouldn’t have left her baby and become this crazy person. But she did ultimately listen and go home at the end to raise her baaaby.
Question I have: Does everyone end up having a sideways world to go to first (regardless if you were on the island or not)? My answer would be yes. Doesn’t everyone have issues to work out? That’s why I think there are 2 stories/plots.
[quote comment="375112"]so no walt or michael… and where was frank and alpert and miles in the end church part?[/quote]
They didn’t die in the first crash. They all died then.
[quote comment="375429"][quote comment="375112"]so no walt or michael… and where was frank and alpert and miles in the end church part?[/quote]
They didn’t die in the first crash. They all died then.[/quote]
____________________________________
NO ONE DIED IN THE FIRST CRASH!! well, except for all the people who did (the non-main characters i.e. the burning of the fusalage, the federal marshall, etc…)
I have to say I thought it was a great ending to what started 6 years ago!.. I do believe juliets statement it worked was the swan station having to be built after the bomb went off, which makes the plane crash and for these particular people to meet again in the afterlife and be able to move on into heaven!. I think the island was real and what happened there was real otherwise Ben wouldn’t have appoligized to Locke for what he did to him.
[quote comment="375419"][quote comment="375414"][quote comment="375402"][quote comment="375277"][/quote]quoting Julia, what “worked” is the Universe’s plan/technique for delivering us to our lovedoneseternal/heaven at the conclusion of our trials/growthintolove (all citizens of heaven, if it be a heaven, must know (have learned) how to love correctly/perfectly[/quote]
Thanks. I think I get it now! I talked about my revised interpretation of ‘what worked’ in comment 391. It all makes sense now, and in a very beautiful way.[/quote]
Or…”It worked.” Same line Juliette said to cop Sawyer when she got the Apollo bar out.
Maybe it was akin to the coffee comments?
LOL[/quote]
Haha! And I thought I had it all figured out!
heaven is for heterosexuals I guess. could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?
Let go, cross over, and step into the light of LOST’s series finale at http://bit.ly/9ppGW8
[quote comment="375433"]heaven is for heterosexuals I guess. could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?[/quote]
Maybe Vincent was gay….
[quote comment="375433"]heaven is for heterosexuals I guess. could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?[/quote]
There were at least two – Tom Friendly, and his friend
[quote comment="375433"]heaven is for heterosexuals I guess. could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?[/quote]
How did you miss Tom Friendly?
[quote comment="375437"][quote comment="375433"]heaven is for heterosexuals I guess. could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?[/quote]
How did you miss Tom Friendly?[/quote]
Beat you to it
[quote comment="375433"]heaven is for heterosexuals I guess. could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?[/quote]
I thought Shannon’s brother was.
Ok so here is my observation.
Bomb explodes on island.
Jack wakes up on plane in purgatory.
All of the flash sideways scenes took place after Jack died in last night episode despite the fact we were being shown purgatory scenes at the beginning of the season. Basically this season had flash forwards not flash sideways.
[quote comment="375425"]I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ending and decide whether I liked it, or whether it was like discovering that Santa is not real (still love x-mas, but the magic ‘s gone).
The one thing that bothers me the most is that Sayid was with Shannon in the end, and not Nadia. He wanted to be with Nadia before he got on the island, when he left as part of the o6, in the fsw….. And then he enters the happy ever after with Shannon? Anyone can explain that one to me?[/quote]
Me, too, Miraks! Not sure how I feel about this ending–
There was so much that I thought was great, especially the first parts, but Shannon/Sayid–eh.
And the reality/unreality of things–Keamy, Patchy, bad guys–what does that say about FSW world?–(I like the anti-nirvana party in the basement idea, Bobola) David the un-son–I thought that was SUCH a beautiful moment when Jack and David had that conversation about his father (to me, that’s when he resolved his daddy issues)–so it’s not as…lovely now. Because David isn’t real. So it’s like Jack giving a mental hug to himself. Or a spiritual one. Or something metaphysical like that. Which is OK, I guess, but…
And all that religiosity– don’t get me wrong, I like the faith/spiritual/philosophical parts of this show and the discussions people have had over the years–but the church building was a little too specific for me. I wanted MORE mystery here.
Why not a bonfire on the beach? That to me would have been more fitting. Pass around the Dharma beer, and party on into eternity.
So let’s suspend our notion of the church construct = religious experience for Sideways world Losties.
The Church was the same as Mrs. Hawking’s Dharma locale in Season 5. (Real-world pre-island and pre-Jack return).
Light there, Christian opens door to. Light on island. We see in last few episodes. Don’t know what it is, but we know it has electro-magnetic properties.
So what if they died at ANY point in ANY timeline? If the light on the island, which events the Losties after crash experienced in real-time, did indeed have time traveling consequences, why are we assuming the finale was them walking into “heaven?” Why not shared knowledge of Desmond’s ability? One that didn’t kill him (after meeting his “constant.”) They all survived exposure to this source on the island–at some point they all met their “constants.” Why are we not assuming they could return from this place to a timeline of their choosing. Desmond could enter points in any possible paths from exposure to this energy. The cat is dead and alive.
Super dense neutron stars could have enough mass to slow all timelines to essentially one…the island was like this exotic material. There was definitely a sense from the Losties that they were traveling and would be together. In a real place.
Ben’s constant is Alex.
I think if we rewatch, we’ll see Hurley’s rules, more than Jacob’s, were at work on the island in earlier seasons. When Desmond first turned the sky purple timelines were mixed. The polar bear–Hurley. Many others. But Jack still needed to take over for Jacob, so Hurley could take over for him.
[quote comment="375369"][quote comment="375182"]For a minute I thought Ben was going to pull a fast one and blow up the church with everyone in it.[/quote]
NOW THAT would have been a good ending.
I also thought;
they should have panned the camera down to the Church basement and there below were all the bad people from LOST having their own little party…
just the opposite to the Hallmark card events going on upstairs.
Keamy and Patchy and Sun’s Dad…Jin’s Mom… could be drunk off their asses and grabbing some strippers ass, Dressing up in the Pastors clothes and doing nasty things with the sacred books & crucifix…etc.
Mrs. Widmore could have been dancing with a Goat…should have brought in Sam Rami to do that portion. God knows it need something funny, creative, and interesting to counter the love fest in the Politically Correct Church.
Most pointless scene;
Bernnie and Rose in their little hideaway.
Jack being all NOBLE in getting fLocke to promise to leave them alone. Right, let’s trust the word of the evil dead. It was ludicrous.
Yeah, I’m with the people here who feel shortchanged.
The show went into the toilet as far as I’m concerned.
I’ll never watch another Network show ever. I could have written a better ending in less time than the show took to air. About half the 2 hours were Flashbacks.
Sorry, but all the gooey reunions were simply boring…
I just got to the point where I didn’t care anymore.
The show ended without any humor or strangeness…
and the fight between Jack and fLocke was absurd cliche;not just once, but TWICE fLocke clobbers Jack with a blow from his free hand at the side with a rock and then a knife.
Like someone mentioned; fLocke has Jack knocked out in the first round and goes off to leave him able to come at him later? That’s one of the most overused Horror show cliches ever…and when I see it in a film I stop watching.
And Jack takes a HUGE knife to the side and can continue on like he’s just sprained an ankle?
“I think I’ll go spelunking now and lift a real heavy stone…” ???
And Jack to Hurley; “you take over now because…well, for no reason other than…well, for no good reason…ok?”.
I got so sick of the crappy music…it just was grating and manipulative. It was like being trapped in an Elevator with a bad Musak tape loop.
Too may characters had this dopey grin on their faces…I guess I would too if I was making the kind of dough they must be getting for staying in Hawaii.
The one thing that took me by surprise is how the scene between Charley and Claire got to me; it was pure corn but somehow worked well for a nanosecond…BUT THEN they diffused the whole thing right away with Claire running off to have her baby backstage. The big relief was there was no singing from Charley.
Looks like his To Do list was limited to;
1. How much Eyeliner can I plaster on TODAY?
2. How shit faced can I get?
I only felt bad for Vincent; I could just see that Hurley was going to have a hard time chasing down the Pigs for grub…but it was surely going to be a lot easier at some point to say; “here doggy!”
Miles went to fix the plane with some Duct tape?
I guess since the plane was “dead” he could ask it how to fix itself?
Missing were any good plane jokes. One of the passengers should have been scrounging around saying; “hey, Airline food sounds pretty good right about now!”
Or someone calmly thumbing through the IN FLIGHT magazine looking intensely interested as the plane starts to roar down the coconut grove. Or picking up a copy of a book left behind; The Autobiography of Leslie Nielsen…
But no, we got a Movie of the week instead;…but we got zip.
And here we had MILES, the quip Master onboard.
If ever a scene was ripe for self parody and moment of fun.
The big reunion was missing some players (as others noted). Missing Ana Lucia and a few others but then they were not paired up with love interests so written off?
Would have been funny to have Ana L. in the back pew french kissing Michael. Well, that’s just the sort of thing I like…if you’re going to have unexplained events…let’s go all the way.
LOST In the end; Tepid, Cliche, Sappy Kitsch, and not much imagination…about the level of a High School writer doing a project for her class in Romance Novels.[/quote]
This is the best review of the finale i have seen so far, Its pretty obvious now that the writers did not know from the start where this story was going to go and just made it up depending on how many series they were allowed to create, I mean the first thing ya learn with creative writing is structure these writers seem to have forgotten that. the reset nuclear bomb ending would have been much better than this bull crap last night and would have made more sense.
I absolutely loved the ending. I can’t seem to shake it. All day I’ve been rethinking life and what I’m doing with it, which may sound cheesy but I find it amazing that LOST tackled the “one” question that we will never know until it happens. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE? I didn’t think I was going to like what they were doing until Jack was in the church and lifted the casket lid. I thought they were going to make the Sideways land their new reality and kind of wipe away everything we had seen on the island, which would have been a cop out. But what they did, pulling out the rug with the sideways world was so unexpected but so appropriate and awesome. Just the other day I was one of the nitpicky people who wanted every little question answered and somehow they made all that shit unimportant to me which from a writer’s perspective is so insanely hard to do. They pulled it off 100% for me and I love the fact that there are no alternate timelines that change anything we’ve seen over the past six years. Whatever happened happened. It was a completely classy and beautiful way to end and epic show. I mean it makes sense that we don’t know what the hell the island is because no one does. There are so many questions in life we don’t have the answers to and the way the writers handled it was perfect.
[quote comment="375341"]To all of those who are upset with the way the show ended, I ask one question…Why? Has LOST ever been a show about answers? It has always been a show about love, redemption, and coming to terms with their own demons.
I have seen many posts that are still asking some of the same questions. What are the numbers? A coinsidence. They were the numbers given to candidates, that also happend to show up EVERYWHERE. The reason being…Because. Is that a good answer? It’s neither good or bad. It is what it is. Walt left the island and is having a better life for it. Move on! The FSW was limbo, the rest of the story was real. That is a given. The shoe at the end show us that it was real. That is why they made the effort to show it (and the wreckedge is just a backdrop for the credits as many have stated previously). All the time traveling, DHARMA, smoke monster, etc…where essential to get the characters to the place they needed to be. Why do we need an explanation? Can we really time travel? No. So how can we really explain it?
I think this was the best ending the show could have had. How could we admire D&C if they just gave us a list of explanations. I love the idea of interpretation. It lets us connect with the characters in a more personal way. We all loved the show, otherwise we would not be on this blog. To all you nitpickers, go rewatch all the seasons. While we loved the Sci-fi mystery, it was the writing and the characters that brought it to life. I for one am a fan of how this ended.[/quote]
Very well said, brotha!
[quote comment="375443"][quote comment="375369"][quote comment="375182"]For a minute I thought Ben was going to pull a fast one and blow up the church with everyone in it.[/quote]
NOW THAT would have been a good ending.
I also thought;
they should have panned the camera down to the Church basement and there below were all the bad people from LOST having their own little party…
just the opposite to the Hallmark card events going on upstairs.
Keamy and Patchy and Sun’s Dad…Jin’s Mom… could be drunk off their asses and grabbing some strippers ass, Dressing up in the Pastors clothes and doing nasty things with the sacred books & crucifix…etc.
Mrs. Widmore could have been dancing with a Goat…should have brought in Sam Rami to do that portion. God knows it need something funny, creative, and interesting to counter the love fest in the Politically Correct Church.
Most pointless scene;
Bernnie and Rose in their little hideaway.
Jack being all NOBLE in getting fLocke to promise to leave them alone. Right, let’s trust the word of the evil dead. It was ludicrous.
Yeah, I’m with the people here who feel shortchanged.
The show went into the toilet as far as I’m concerned.
I’ll never watch another Network show ever. I could have written a better ending in less time than the show took to air. About half the 2 hours were Flashbacks.
Sorry, but all the gooey reunions were simply boring…
I just got to the point where I didn’t care anymore.
The show ended without any humor or strangeness…
and the fight between Jack and fLocke was absurd cliche;not just once, but TWICE fLocke clobbers Jack with a blow from his free hand at the side with a rock and then a knife.
Like someone mentioned; fLocke has Jack knocked out in the first round and goes off to leave him able to come at him later? That’s one of the most overused Horror show cliches ever…and when I see it in a film I stop watching.
And Jack takes a HUGE knife to the side and can continue on like he’s just sprained an ankle?
“I think I’ll go spelunking now and lift a real heavy stone…” ???
And Jack to Hurley; “you take over now because…well, for no reason other than…well, for no good reason…ok?”.
I got so sick of the crappy music…it just was grating and manipulative. It was like being trapped in an Elevator with a bad Musak tape loop.
Too may characters had this dopey grin on their faces…I guess I would too if I was making the kind of dough they must be getting for staying in Hawaii.
The one thing that took me by surprise is how the scene between Charley and Claire got to me; it was pure corn but somehow worked well for a nanosecond…BUT THEN they diffused the whole thing right away with Claire running off to have her baby backstage. The big relief was there was no singing from Charley.
Looks like his To Do list was limited to;
1. How much Eyeliner can I plaster on TODAY?
2. How shit faced can I get?
I only felt bad for Vincent; I could just see that Hurley was going to have a hard time chasing down the Pigs for grub…but it was surely going to be a lot easier at some point to say; “here doggy!”
Miles went to fix the plane with some Duct tape?
I guess since the plane was “dead” he could ask it how to fix itself?
Missing were any good plane jokes. One of the passengers should have been scrounging around saying; “hey, Airline food sounds pretty good right about now!”
Or someone calmly thumbing through the IN FLIGHT magazine looking intensely interested as the plane starts to roar down the coconut grove. Or picking up a copy of a book left behind; The Autobiography of Leslie Nielsen…
But no, we got a Movie of the week instead;…but we got zip.
And here we had MILES, the quip Master onboard.
If ever a scene was ripe for self parody and moment of fun.
The big reunion was missing some players (as others noted). Missing Ana Lucia and a few others but then they were not paired up with love interests so written off?
Would have been funny to have Ana L. in the back pew french kissing Michael. Well, that’s just the sort of thing I like…if you’re going to have unexplained events…let’s go all the way.
LOST In the end; Tepid, Cliche, Sappy Kitsch, and not much imagination…about the level of a High School writer doing a project for her class in Romance Novels.[/quote]
This is the best review of the finale i have seen so far, Its pretty obvious now that the writers did not know from the start where this story was going to go and just made it up depending on how many series they were allowed to create, I mean the first thing ya learn with creative writing is structure these writers seem to have forgotten that. the reset nuclear bomb ending would have been much better than this bull crap last night and would have made more sense.[/quote]
I disagree w/ Rose and Bernard’s scene being pointless. Rose told Desmond that he has to leave because they already broke the rules by helping him and that they promised to not intervene. That let us know that they have been talking to someone who knows the rules. It also let us know that they have had this figured out for quite some time now which makes sense because their love has always been there. Rose also said something about time which is similar to what Christian told Jack. Rose told Sawyer however many episodes ago… that they are trying so hard to get back to a life that they were unhappy w/ anyway.
#
cyainanotherlifebrother
Bobola
Tim
Laura Android
===================
OMG–that sequence of posts was flat out awesome!
Its what I love about this blog in a nutshell!
Totally opposite viewpoints, well expressed.
Round of Dharma beer on me.
[quote comment="375273"]
Exellent ending ,worth all the wait . sad, moving and fulfilled my expectations.Thanks to the web site. hammer,pj,toeknee,lost4ever,misskim, thanks for nothing .bye
[/quote]
so solly. don’t go. your spelling and punctuation have improved immensely.
I get what Christian said about the people being in the church because their best times were with each other, but they threw in Penny I guess to appease the fans of her connection with Desmond, so why couldn’t they do the same with Locke and Helen? Didn’t everybody want to see him end up with her? From the very beginning when they showed him talking to that broad on the phone sex hotline to the very end, I wanted Locke to be happy in love with Helen. They teased us this season and in the end it was stolen away.
[quote comment="375450"]I get what Christian said about the people being in the church because their best times were with each other, but they threw in Penny I guess to appease the fans of her connection with Desmond, so why couldn’t they do the same with Locke and Helen? Didn’t everybody want to see him end up with her? From the very beginning when they showed him talking to that broad on the phone sex hotline to the very end, I wanted Locke to be happy in love with Helen. They teased us this season and in the end it was stolen away.[/quote]
Either way you look at it, a lot of the people in there didn’t make any sense. It was just a way for the writers to have a bunch of cast members in a happily ever after scene. Watching back earlier, it was kind of sad Locke didn’t have anybody. They should have given him an island “Love” in those six seasons. Or at least thrown Ben in there so they could be together lol.
What I don’t understand (beyond how anyone came away from last night’s episode thinking the Losties were dead the whole time….I mean Christian said POINT BLANK that everything was real…couldn’t have been any clearer) is why there’s so much bashing going on.
Of course, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I would be really interested in hearing how you would have ended the series???
I mean, there are plenty of things that I would rather have seen continue with the overall story arc but you have to remember that this story-telling process is organic – happening spontaneously, to a degree, over time. Additionally, many things happened over the last 6 years that could never have been planned for: writers’ strike shortening season 4, the uncertainty (initially, at least) as to how long the show would be produced, actors coming and going, etc. etc. etc.
I, personally, am thankful for having experienced a show that didn’t dumb itself down, challenged viewers, and dared to be as creative and as “outside the box” as it was. I’m only sad it couldn’t go on longer.
Why did Locke say to Jack in the hospital when he had his awakening “You have no son”
OMG! You guys gotta check these out! Best LOST art I’ve seen in a long time.
http://www.indiegogo.com/BYE-BYE-LOST
[quote comment="375369"]
..they should have panned the camera down to the Church basement and there below were all the bad people from LOST having their own little party… just the opposite to the Hallmark card events going on upstairs. Keamy and Patchy and Sun’s Dad…Jin’s Mom… could be drunk off their asses and grabbing some strippers ass…
[/quote]
(The basement has that super secret computer with the giant pendulum that tracks the island.)
doh… Tina Fey-wannabe Zoe stripping for Widmore? Zoe stripping for Hawking? Zoe riding the giant pendulum while stripping.
here she is pole dancing
http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp
[quote comment="375452"]What I don’t understand (beyond how anyone came away from last night’s episode thinking the Losties were dead the whole time….I mean Christian said POINT BLANK that everything was real…couldn’t have been any clearer) is why there’s so much bashing going on.
Of course, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I would be really interested in hearing how you would have ended the series???
I mean, there are plenty of things that I would rather have seen continue with the overall story arc but you have to remember that this story-telling process is organic – happening spontaneously, to a degree, over time. Additionally, many things happened over the last 6 years that could never have been planned for: writers’ strike shortening season 4, the uncertainty (initially, at least) as to how long the show would be produced, actors coming and going, etc. etc. etc.
I, personally, am thankful for having experienced a show that didn’t dumb itself down, challenged viewers, and dared to be as creative and as “outside the box” as it was. I’m only sad it couldn’t go on longer.[/quote]
I agree. There have been a lot of posts where people say they could have done it better… bs. If you could have then you would have. To belittle the writers because the show did not end the way you wanted it to is insane. Everyone who thinks that should develop/write a tv show. Hopefully, its good enough to even get a blog site.
Because Jack never had a son in “REALITY.” It’s sort of like that sweet Justice League episode when Superman realizes he’s been in a comatose state and that the family he’s created in his mind do not exist. What I find interesting about it is how the son is there. Did Jack and Juliet give birth to a son in the afterlife or was he created by Jack like how Christian says, you all created this world, sort of thing. Or, is the kid not even their son but he’s got a job pretending to be. Either way it was awesome.
[quote comment="375425"]I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ending and decide whether I liked it, or whether it was like discovering that Santa is not real (still love x-mas, but the magic ‘s gone).
The one thing that bothers me the most is that Sayid was with Shannon in the end, and not Nadia. He wanted to be with Nadia before he got on the island, when he left as part of the o6, in the fsw….. And then he enters the happy ever after with Shannon? Anyone can explain that one to me?[/quote]
Nadia wasn’t a virgin – sorry couldn’t resist. :O
So the whole theory that the all the people on the Oceanic were actually dead and in a state of purgatory is true?
I wish they had answered the whole, “Birth on island is impossible” plot. It is now obvious that it was just a filler subplot just like animal testing and such.
Overall, I liked the ending.
[quote comment="375457"]Because Jack never had a son in “REALITY.” It’s sort of like that sweet Justice League episode when Superman realizes he’s been in a comatose state and that the family he’s created in his mind do not exist. What I find interesting about it is how the son is there. Did Jack and Juliet give birth to a son in the afterlife or was he created by Jack like how Christian says, you all created this world, sort of thing. Or, is the kid not even their son but he’s got a job pretending to be. Either way it was awesome.[/quote]
________
you hit the nail on the head. Jack “created” his son. That is why Locke tells him he has no son to sort of wake him up.
[quote comment="375452"]What I don’t understand (beyond how anyone came away from last night’s episode thinking the Losties were dead the whole time….I mean Christian said POINT BLANK that everything was real…couldn’t have been any clearer) is why there’s so much bashing going on.
Of course, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I would be really interested in hearing how you would have ended the series???[/quote
___
I would have liked to see the series end without the FSW as in only island time. It would have been great and just as controversial. The FSW was more of a *wink to the fans by D&C. a sort of we wont give you the answers you want but we will let you see Jack and the gang together again. I guess in the end you dont die alone…
What caused Richard to be timeless, and why did he begin aging? Was it when he “let go”? (Sounds wrong) Were others on the Island also not aging? Is the island a pocket universe that travels near light speed relative to our universe? lol
[quote comment="375436"][quote comment="375433"]heaven is for heterosexuals I guess. could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?[/quote]
There were at least two – Tom Friendly, and his friend[/quote]
And all the sea men on the Black Rock
[quote comment="375459"]So the whole theory that the all the people on the Oceanic were actually dead and in a state of purgatory is true?
I wish they had answered the whole, “Birth on island is impossible” plot. It is now obvious that it was just a filler subplot just like animal testing and such.
Overall, I liked the ending.[/quote]
Not true, IMO.
I think they gave us enough info to work with on why women couldn’t have babies. The island is the cork that keeps evil away from the rest of the world. The island had special electro magnetic properties. The island was to be protected…not exploited. The island did not want corrupting folks to procreate. It became obvious that Ben was not the island protector, Jacob allowed him free will to take over part of the island, but the island itself would not allow procreation.
I’ve read 300 posts so far, so forgive me if I repeat anything.
Others have stated that things came full circle and I agree. Everything was the opposite in the end. Obviously it ended with Jack’s eye because that’s how it started. He was in the same spot in the bamboo forest where he woke up after the crash. The wreckage of flight 815 on the beach was the first thing he saw after running out of the forest. That is why they showed it to us. Crashing on the island was the beginning of their journey to redemption.
The island time line was the real time line. The LOSTIES wouldn’t have seen flashes of their lives on the island or the important people or events they experienced if it never happened.
I don’t believe in Purgatory, no offense to anyone that does. I believe in the afterlife (Heaven and Hell) but the FSW WAS NOT PURGATORY. Purgatory is supposed to be a place of temporary punishment or paying for your sins after death. The characters were not being punished. We saw our LOSTIES grow into better people and change their lives due to their experiences on the island.
I think Richard started aging once the candidate had been instated and Jacobs time is over. Once Jack drank the water Richard’s job was done. When the ashes were completely gone and Jack took over, another cycle begins…hence Richard goes back to what he was.
[quote comment="375465"][quote comment="375459"]So the whole theory that the all the people on the Oceanic were actually dead and in a state of purgatory is true?
I wish they had answered the whole, “Birth on island is impossible” plot. It is now obvious that it was just a filler subplot just like animal testing and such.
Overall, I liked the ending.[/quote]
Not true, IMO.
I think they gave us enough info to work with on why women couldn’t have babies. The island is the cork that keeps evil away from the rest of the world. The island had special electro magnetic properties. The island was to be protected…not exploited. The island did not want corrupting folks to procreate. It became obvious that Ben was not the island protector, Jacob allowed him free will to take over part of the island, but the island itself would not allow procreation.[/quote]
Wasn’t it mentioned at some point that The Incident was thought to be responsible for the inability to have children on the island?
So maybe a lot of questions weren’t answered, but if you go back, I’ll bet you see so many answers were there all along… I was only suprised by a few last minute plot points from the last maybe ten episodes that seemed useless… but I’m ok with that… There should be a Charles Widmore TV Movie at some point… ABC did a ton of random Columbo movies for like twenty years after that show ended… my fingers are crossed…
[quote comment="375288"][quote comment="375273"]Exellent ending ,worth all the wait . sad, moving and fulfilled my expectations.Thanks to the web site. hammer,pj,toeknee,lost4ever,misskim, thanks for nothing .bye[/quote]
You’re welc- hey, what?[/quote]
What? They or anyone else here didn’t write the show. Were all of your theories or interpretations right?
[quote comment="375466"]
I don’t believe in Purgatory, no offense to anyone that does. I believe in the afterlife (Heaven and Hell) but the FSW WAS NOT PURGATORY. Purgatory is supposed to be a place of temporary punishment or paying for your sins after death. The characters were not being punished. We saw our LOSTIES grow into better people and change their lives due to their experiences on the island.[/quote]
I agree it was not THE PURGATORY, but I think it was LIKE purgatory.
BTW, temporal punishment…not necessarily temporary punishment.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm
[quote comment="375407"][quote comment="375398"][quote comment="375392"]NOBODY SEEMS TO REMEMBER THAT RICHARD SAID “WE’RE ALL DEAD” & REMEMBER MICHAEL SAID” WE’RE THE ONES WHO CANT MOVE ON”
I STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY ALL DIED ON THAT FIRST PLANE CRASH & THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY.[/quote]
****************
I guess this is what makes it so great. That you can shout it out in all caps to all of us that they died!
AND I CAN DO THE SAME THING. IT IS JUST THAT I DISAGREE WITH YOU. WHAT HAPPENED HAPPENED! THEY ALL LIVED AND THEY ALL DIED AT VARIOUS TIMES AND AT VARIOUS AGES.
We are all in two camps just like so many of our losties have been for 6 years. You live at the beach or in a cave. You go with Locke or stay with Jack.
The show left it up to your imagination, and your own interpretation:)[/quote]
I DONT KNOW WHY WE’RE YELLING. I love lamp.[/quote]
sector7 is my new favorite
I wonder if the producers and writers KNEW that had six seasons of shows to produce whether the shows events would have been different?
I was hoping that everything that happened in the previous years were some how tied into the meaning of why they were all on the island.
Oh well, overall it was an awesome run.
1. the writers are not gods, only demi-gods–
2. it’s OK to be disappointed/upset/happy/sad, we still have free will
3.I’m still wrapping my mind around the ending–my expectations vs. what happened, where i thought they might go and where they went, and how I feel about it. It’s a mix.
4. It started with Jack, it ended with Jack–that’s fitting. The Island goes on, also fitting, with many mysteries intact…only now there’ll probably be a statue of Yoda instead of Tawaret if Hurley has anything to say about it
5. I’m off for my next series finale, 24–how much entertainment loss can a person take?!?!?! My Jacks! (and I married a Jack, too)
6. Here’s a quote:
“The difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense.” Tom Clancy
Not sure how that applies to LOST, but what the heck.
Peace out, folks!
[quote comment="375128"]Everything was real, but they all died at different times, but their fates, love and life were so intertwined that they (tacitly) made a pact to meet up and leave together once everyone was ready to leave … Leave where? Leave their earthly existence. And Jack took his time getting there, even though it appeared that he died rather quickly after plugging the energy source.
There is no ‘now’ in the afterlife and a day could be a millennium, or a hundred years – one minute long. There is no time, or space — there is only love. It was perfectly beautiful.[/quote]
I agree completely, Kim. A perfect poem, a terrific ending, and we will see our soulmates in that perfect place.
[quote comment="375473"]I wonder if the producers and writers KNEW that had six seasons of shows to produce whether the shows events would have been different?
I was hoping that everything that happened in the previous years were some how tied into the meaning of why they were all on the island.
Oh well, overall it was an awesome run.[/quote]
I think at one point, they didn’t even know if they’d be back for a second season. After the show took off, they were thinking 7 seasons as far as I recall. I know the writers’ strike affected things significantly as well….
[quote comment="375465"][quote comment="375459"]So the whole theory that the all the people on the Oceanic were actually dead and in a state of purgatory is true?
I wish they had answered the whole, “Birth on island is impossible” plot. It is now obvious that it was just a filler subplot just like animal testing and such.
Overall, I liked the ending.[/quote]
Not true, IMO.
I think they gave us enough info to work with on why women couldn’t have babies. The island is the cork that keeps evil away from the rest of the world. The island had special electro magnetic properties. The island was to be protected…not exploited. The island did not want corrupting folks to procreate. It became obvious that Ben was not the island protector, Jacob allowed him free will to take over part of the island, but the island itself would not allow procreation.[/quote]
__________________________________
Huck, the first part of your post is false.
I would also say it’s possible that birth didn’t happen because of the incident. The only two babies to be born on the island after the incident were Alex and Aaron. It’s also possible it was one of Jacob’s rules for a time. Or as Hammer said, due to the island magic for one reason or another. Could be Jacob did that to bring Juliet to the island.
[quote comment="375477"][quote comment="375465"][quote comment="375459"]So the whole theory that the all the people on the Oceanic were actually dead and in a state of purgatory is true?
I wish they had answered the whole, “Birth on island is impossible” plot. It is now obvious that it was just a filler subplot just like animal testing and such.
Overall, I liked the ending.[/quote]
Not true, IMO.
I think they gave us enough info to work with on why women couldn’t have babies. The island is the cork that keeps evil away from the rest of the world. The island had special electro magnetic properties. The island was to be protected…not exploited. The island did not want corrupting folks to procreate. It became obvious that Ben was not the island protector, Jacob allowed him free will to take over part of the island, but the island itself would not allow procreation.[/quote]
__________________________________
Huck, the first part of your post is false.
I would also say it’s possible that birth didn’t happen because of the incident. The only two babies to be born on the island after the incident were Alex and Aaron. It’s also possible it was one of Jacob’s rules for a time. Or as Hammer said, due to the island magic for one reason or another. Could be Jacob did that to bring Juliet to the island.[/quote]
Actually I may have misunderstood you. FSW Oceanic people are dead.
wow im really disapointed because i have no clue what that show was about…..jesus im sitting here after i watched it and am like….huh..?!?! what just happend… a concert, a church, a plane flying away from the island….and huh..?!?! so ok it’s over what a waste of time..i guess i can play WOW now. pfft this makes me cry
COMPARISON OF JACOB AND HURLEY AND THE MEANING OF THE ISLAND
Jacob assembled a group of candidates that, like him, were flawed. He needed to find a successor and when necessary, traveled off island to nudge them along. Like Jacob, some had issues with their parents, with society, and with themselves.
Hurley talks to dead people. He runs the island now and also has helped bring everyone together — but in a different way — though contact in the afterlife. His purpose is so they can “let go.”
The island was an interim place to work things out. If the island “isn’t done with you yet,” then you still have a chance to evolve as a person. Some will never evolve; they linger, whispering, wandering.
The candidates were smart. Capable of carrying out elaborate con games, for the good of themselves or others. Some on the island came to exploit it’s magical properties. At first, candidates and others do not know which group to align themselves with. Who is good or bad, is not always clear.
Different groups use different approaches to survive, understand, to grow. After eons of different groups with different leaders, power struggles and shifting alliances, one combination of people figured things out. This show was about them, in the physical world that we live in, and in this interim world, where time and space is irrelevant. WHEN you die doesn’t matter. It’s not WHERE that matters, whether on or off island. It’s HOW you live your life and HOW you treat your fellow man.
Jacob did save them. And Hurley sent them on their way.
Saw this on another site, so I cut & paste it. I believe it’s a perfect summary.
I believe that everyone died in the plane crash. Christian said it himself, time was irrellevent. Everyone died in the crash. The island was created for the “flawed” people to find some closure to prepare for the afterlife. They were alone and needed to show that they are ready to move on. The flash-sideways was created as a final way for those stuck in purgatory (the island) to move on. The island and the flash sideways were connected. What happened on the island was the internal struggle to be good and for the characters to “let go” so that in the flash sideways they may move on (scene in the church). Jack was the last to “let go” on the island (he died, the people escaped and he saved the island) thus allowing him in the sideways to move on to the light. As the characters “let go” they realized they were dead in the flash sideways. I feel as though The Man in Black was stuck on the island never proving that he was ready to leave. He became bitter and wanted to kill the person guiding him (jacob) along to the light. Jacob’s time was done and hurley inherited the guide position. Ultimately, the people needed each other to move on. Hence the names on the wall. The lost characters needed everyone “realized” to move to the light. So it was the job of the guide (jacob) to help them realize it. I will give jack as an example of this thoery. He needed to save the island. He saved the island and once that happened he died and realized that he was ready to move on. Hurley realized he was going to become the new guide. Every character had a goal on the island so once those were completed they were able to realized they were ready to move on. They made the connections and/or fixed relationships in death that they never could in life and then moved to a better place. To explain the people like penny and others who were not on the plane, was that time like christian said was irrellevent. Penny could have lived to be 100 and then died and when they finally realized they were dead, was transported back to the church to be with desmond. Making the connection with loved ones before moving on.
in short, everyone needs to resolve something in death that wasn’t resolved in life. After that is resolved, then you are able to move on. Each path is different but in the end its the connections we made, or not made that help/hinder us. We are all connected and looking for closure. And thats the end…great ending…
OMG! The BEST LOST ART ever…I’m buying the polar bear one right now
SWEET!
http://www.indiegogo.com/BYE-BYE-LOST
[quote comment="375481"]Saw this on another site, so I cut & paste it. I believe it’s a perfect summary.
I believe that everyone died in the plane crash. Christian said it himself, time was irrellevent. Everyone died in the crash. The island was created for the “flawed” people to find some closure to prepare for the afterlife. They were alone and needed to show that they are ready to move on. The flash-sideways was created as a final way for those stuck in purgatory (the island) to move on. The island and the flash sideways were connected. What happened on the island was the internal struggle to be good and for the characters to “let go” so that in the flash sideways they may move on (scene in the church). Jack was the last to “let go” on the island (he died, the people escaped and he saved the island) thus allowing him in the sideways to move on to the light. As the characters “let go” they realized they were dead in the flash sideways. I feel as though The Man in Black was stuck on the island never proving that he was ready to leave. He became bitter and wanted to kill the person guiding him (jacob) along to the light. Jacob’s time was done and hurley inherited the guide position. Ultimately, the people needed each other to move on. Hence the names on the wall. The lost characters needed everyone “realized” to move to the light. So it was the job of the guide (jacob) to help them realize it. I will give jack as an example of this thoery. He needed to save the island. He saved the island and once that happened he died and realized that he was ready to move on. Hurley realized he was going to become the new guide. Every character had a goal on the island so once those were completed they were able to realized they were ready to move on. They made the connections and/or fixed relationships in death that they never could in life and then moved to a better place. To explain the people like penny and others who were not on the plane, was that time like christian said was irrellevent. Penny could have lived to be 100 and then died and when they finally realized they were dead, was transported back to the church to be with desmond. Making the connection with loved ones before moving on.
in short, everyone needs to resolve something in death that wasn’t resolved in life. After that is resolved, then you are able to move on. Each path is different but in the end its the connections we made, or not made that help/hinder us. We are all connected and looking for closure. And thats the end…great ending…[/quote]
What site did you find that on?
The FSW they introduced this series was to throw us off of the real questions, that they never answered. Everybody is preocupied trying to figure out what the FSW means and the actual questions as were mentioned before never got answered.
[quote comment="375483"][quote comment="375481"]Saw this on another site, so I cut & paste it. I believe it’s a perfect summary.
I believe that everyone died in the plane crash. Christian said it himself, time was irrellevent. Everyone died in the crash. The island was created for the “flawed” people to find some closure to prepare for the afterlife. They were alone and needed to show that they are ready to move on. The flash-sideways was created as a final way for those stuck in purgatory (the island) to move on. The island and the flash sideways were connected. What happened on the island was the internal struggle to be good and for the characters to “let go” so that in the flash sideways they may move on (scene in the church). Jack was the last to “let go” on the island (he died, the people escaped and he saved the island) thus allowing him in the sideways to move on to the light. As the characters “let go” they realized they were dead in the flash sideways. I feel as though The Man in Black was stuck on the island never proving that he was ready to leave. He became bitter and wanted to kill the person guiding him (jacob) along to the light. Jacob’s time was done and hurley inherited the guide position. Ultimately, the people needed each other to move on. Hence the names on the wall. The lost characters needed everyone “realized” to move to the light. So it was the job of the guide (jacob) to help them realize it. I will give jack as an example of this thoery. He needed to save the island. He saved the island and once that happened he died and realized that he was ready to move on. Hurley realized he was going to become the new guide. Every character had a goal on the island so once those were completed they were able to realized they were ready to move on. They made the connections and/or fixed relationships in death that they never could in life and then moved to a better place. To explain the people like penny and others who were not on the plane, was that time like christian said was irrellevent. Penny could have lived to be 100 and then died and when they finally realized they were dead, was transported back to the church to be with desmond. Making the connection with loved ones before moving on.
in short, everyone needs to resolve something in death that wasn’t resolved in life. After that is resolved, then you are able to move on. Each path is different but in the end its the connections we made, or not made that help/hinder us. We are all connected and looking for closure. And thats the end…great ending…[/quote]
What site did you find that on?[/quote]
My local paper, http://www.sun-sentinel.com. Was asking for comments, read that one. IMO, it seemed to sum it up perfectly.
[quote comment="375485"][quote comment="375483"][quote comment="375481"]Saw this on another site, so I cut & paste it. I believe it’s a perfect summary.
I believe that everyone died in the plane crash. Christian said it himself, time was irrellevent. Everyone died in the crash. The island was created for the “flawed” people to find some closure to prepare for the afterlife. They were alone and needed to show that they are ready to move on. The flash-sideways was created as a final way for those stuck in purgatory (the island) to move on. The island and the flash sideways were connected. What happened on the island was the internal struggle to be good and for the characters to “let go” so that in the flash sideways they may move on (scene in the church). Jack was the last to “let go” on the island (he died, the people escaped and he saved the island) thus allowing him in the sideways to move on to the light. As the characters “let go” they realized they were dead in the flash sideways. I feel as though The Man in Black was stuck on the island never proving that he was ready to leave. He became bitter and wanted to kill the person guiding him (jacob) along to the light. Jacob’s time was done and hurley inherited the guide position. Ultimately, the people needed each other to move on. Hence the names on the wall. The lost characters needed everyone “realized” to move to the light. So it was the job of the guide (jacob) to help them realize it. I will give jack as an example of this thoery. He needed to save the island. He saved the island and once that happened he died and realized that he was ready to move on. Hurley realized he was going to become the new guide. Every character had a goal on the island so once those were completed they were able to realized they were ready to move on. They made the connections and/or fixed relationships in death that they never could in life and then moved to a better place. To explain the people like penny and others who were not on the plane, was that time like christian said was irrellevent. Penny could have lived to be 100 and then died and when they finally realized they were dead, was transported back to the church to be with desmond. Making the connection with loved ones before moving on.
in short, everyone needs to resolve something in death that wasn’t resolved in life. After that is resolved, then you are able to move on. Each path is different but in the end its the connections we made, or not made that help/hinder us. We are all connected and looking for closure. And thats the end…great ending…[/quote]
What site did you find that on?[/quote]
My local paper, http://www.sun-sentinel.com. Was asking for comments, read that one. IMO, it seemed to sum it up perfectly.[/quote]
_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.
Absolutely loved the ending… Why should anyone think that all of the mysteries and every little detail of the Island would be resolved. If we take for granted that Jack’s character is the “eye” through which the show was shown, from his perspective, he only knows what he finds out to be true. It is his transformation from a broken, “lost”, faithless soul, searching for meaning in his life, and the people and situations along the way, that shape and mold who he ultimately becomes. He doesn’t have the luxury of time to unravel all of the mysteries, he just has to take a leap of faith that it is all real, he has a purpose in life, and this is it, and just do it. What greater purpose can a character in a story have than to be purposed with the fate that he has found himself to be in, that being the unique position of being THE ONE that gets to save the world, and every one he loves and cares for. Answering all of the questions would be a nice prologue to the story, but not necessary for our hero to have his destiny fulfilled. Jack never got all of the answers… so neither will we… After all, what we are ultimately asking for is for someone to reveal to us the secrets of our own existence. We don’t get to have those answers until our own final moment, and we close our eyes on this existence… and open them on the other side…
[/quote]
_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.[/quote]
Seems to me you are stuck in your own timeframe. That entire group you just mentioned are connected to Widmore in some fashion, and came to the island independantly. The show isn’t about the ‘extras’, it’s about the Oceanic 815′ers. These characters all had flaws/gifts that the Oceanic 815′ers needed to know/have in order to make the connection to their constants/partners. Widmore made the introductions. Those people you mentioned were not dead all along…but must have died in FSW along the way.
How does that sound to you?
Answering Sector 7 below
[quote comment="375488"][/quote]
_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.[/quote] ::Ending Sector 7′s quote::
Seems to me you are stuck in your own timeframe. That entire group you just mentioned are connected to Widmore in some fashion, and came to the island independantly. The show isn’t about the ‘extras’, it’s about the Oceanic 815′ers. These characters all had flaws/gifts that the Oceanic 815′ers needed to know/have in order to make the connection to their constants/partners. Widmore made the introductions. Those people you mentioned were not dead all along…but must have died in FSW along the way.
How does that sound to you?[/quote]
[quote comment="375488"][/quote]
_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.[/quote]
Seems to me you are stuck in your own timeframe. That entire group you just mentioned are connected to Widmore in some fashion, and came to the island independantly. The show isn’t about the ‘extras’, it’s about the Oceanic 815′ers. These characters all had flaws/gifts that the Oceanic 815′ers needed to know/have in order to make the connection to their constants/partners. Widmore made the introductions. Those people you mentioned were not dead all along…but must have died in FSW along the way.
How does that sound to you?[/quote]
_______________________________________
That sounds like incoherent gibberish. Try again.
[quote comment="375490"][quote comment="375488"][/quote]
_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.[/quote]
Seems to me you are stuck in your own timeframe. That entire group you just mentioned are connected to Widmore in some fashion, and came to the island independantly. The show isn’t about the ‘extras’, it’s about the Oceanic 815′ers. These characters all had flaws/gifts that the Oceanic 815′ers needed to know/have in order to make the connection to their constants/partners. Widmore made the introductions. Those people you mentioned were not dead all along…but must have died in FSW along the way.
How does that sound to you?[/quote]
_______________________________________
That sounds like incoherent gibberish. Try again.[/quote]
That’s okay. I’m perfectly content in the explaination. I hope you find peace somewhere.
[quote comment="375290"][quote comment="375231"]So am I right in believing that the most vocal people are the negative nelly’s? I mean….I see some people on here who “got it” and “loved it”, but a lot of others just nitpicking and complaining.
[/quote]
Negative nelly? Come on. The emperor has no clothes. When you strip away the mysteries, which don’t make any sense, the plot is pretty juevenile. Jack versus Smokey. Desmond pulls the ‘rock plug’ out and Smokey become mortal again (which they copied from Superman 2), Jack kills Smokey, and Jack puts the ‘rock plug’ back. Sorry I’m not overwhelmed.
Oh and after supposedly not being able to kill the Candidates then Smokey can kill Jack.
Other mysteries … the temple, the spring of life, the infection (Claire & sayid), why sayid supposedly couldn’t let Flocke speak before stabbing him.[/quote]
If I remember correctly J.J. Abrams, after reading an outline of the show, suggested adding MORE mysterious concepts to the island. I for one felt it was an excellent decision. I posted earlier that if we were given 6 seasons of Castaway, although an excellent movie, and/or Robinson Caruso it would’ve become boring. The characters and mysteries together made this a phenomenal show.
Mother made it possible that Jacob and MIB couldn’t kill each other directly. Mother didn’t make that rule for Smokey and Jack. Each new Protector gets to make his/her own rules much like BIB told Jacob about the Senet game they were playing millenniums ago. Jack had little time to stop Flocke from getting off the island let alone make up some rules of his choosing.
They copied Smokey becoming human again from Superman 2? And where did Superman 2 copy it from? All you have to do is read Greek and Roman mythology. People don’t have any beef with the powers of super heroes in comic books. How did THEY get that way? Is it believable or do people just accept it? I don’t see any difference with LOST.
The Temple was built by the Egyptians hence the hieroglyphics. If you remember the picture with a carving of Smokey and an Egyptian, it shows the Egyptians worshiped the monster. In mythology weren’t most of the gods/goddesses worshiped and sacrifices made to them made out of fear? The Temple was a place of safety and refuge. Smokey lived under the Temple but couldn’t enter it until Jacob was killed. I don’t have a problem with the healing waters. I would imagine it was another unique property of the island. From what we were shown, the infection happens after an encounter with Smokey.
I think the ending was amazing! The island was the real time and the sideways world was also ‘real’ to the characters since their consciousness allowed them to create it as they wanted which is brilliant in my mind bc I do believe we are able to create our version of reality after we leave the body and enter the spirit world. They just didnt know they were creating it.
All of the lost characters in the sideways world participated with one another at the soul level which is why things were pretty picture perfect for those who chose it that way in the sideways world. I think the island allowed the LOST characters to create their world as they saw fit and most of them chose fear. Perhaps they chose fear bc of how things were in their living life before they died and since they did not know how much power they had in creating their lives their time on the island was a bunch of suffering. Once they realized they could create their lives by their thoughts,they then created the sideways world. I think they all didnt realize they were dead until they ‘remembered’ the island. I think we saw it all from Jack’s point of view which is why everyone at the church was waiting for him… I think since there is no actual ‘time’ but NOW in the afterlife and so, that is why everyone was at the church together…even though they may have died at different earth times… Christian did say they all died sooner or later. I also think that their soul was ‘Lost’ until they were all ready to move on! Jacob and his bro were Lost longer than our LOST buddies and played by their ‘rules’ bc they were creating their own afterlife how they wanted to.
In my mind, our LOST characters that were in the church are from the same soul group that incarnate together in order to help each other along their spiritual path towards evolution. For that reason, the people that were not in the church may not be part of the main soul group but from other soul groups and just participated during the Lost character’s lives anyway but didnt need to really show up at church bc they are from a different soul group. Because of all of this, I think the ending was amazing!
[quote comment="375277"]Is it really that obvious that the FSW was the afterlife? May be that’s the easiest term to attribute to it, but that’s not what I thought when Christian was telling Jack about it.
I interpreted it to be another reality that really was set off when they exploded the bomb in 1977. I say this because when Juliet dies in Sawyer’s arms her subconsciousness travels to FSW where she sees a glimpse of her conversation with Sawyer at the vending machine. If FSW was in fact death, that means she saw both her and Sawyer in the afterlife, and in fact traveled there before she finally died when she told Sawyer that “it worked”. What worked? Them dying? I don’t think so. Likewise, Desmond told Jack when they were in the light cave that he could take them to a better place. I don’t think it makes much sense for him to say that he wants to take Jack to the afterlife.
When Christian said that we all die at some point I believe that he was trying to say that death is not what’s important. What’s important is redemption. We will all die sooner or later, but what’s important is the peace we find along the way, and the people who have helped us get there. Their journey on the island helped them find peace through the adversity and trial, and the mysteries surrounding the island enhanced their faith. Jack indeed died on the island, but he lives in peace in his other life.[/quote]
FINALLY, Ive been reading posts everywhere this morning after and everyone is talking about purgatory and the afterlife. I saw it much the same as you, this is just another reality, another world in another dimension where they have lives that never involved the island.. the awakening is them realizing this other life, everything they went through and the relationships they built, so in that way they all get their happy ending, no matter what happened in that reality this one is ok and now they have all their memories…
anyone else see it this way?
A theory about Walt and unanswered questions in general – maybe Walt is still special to the island. We don’t have answers about him now in the series finale and some people are disappointed, but perhaps he becomes relevant to the island again in the future. We only caught a glimpse of the island in a wacky, time-traveling 3 year sequence (right?)…or I guess 2000ish years technically, if you count Jacob/MIB/Mother time period. I am going to say Walt could go back to the island as an adult (out of curiosity perhaps, or destiny, or eloise, or hurley, who knows), hurley and ben will recognize him and dub him the new protector…it could happen
I personally think that is what is great about this finale…the cycle of the island continues, thanks to Jack for re-corking the wine bottle. We don’t need all the answers now because they won’t necesarily be revealed until later in island/real time, if ever. And since the show is over, we the viewers will never know but continue to theorize and contemplate…
I’m satisfied.
just wanted to share. I enjoyed crying to the episode and this music even with 12 people over, looking forward to watching it with just my partner and I. watch out for the waterworks, I’m sad.. not completely thrilled with so many plot holes but all in all I have to accept it for what it is. Its been a great ride.
To say there wasn’t an ending to the series is ridiculous. It just wasn’t the ending you decided it should be, which shouldn’t surprise anyone. I was hoping the FSW was the real ending to their life, but I’m not disappointed. Before the finale, some people thought that the island was hell or made up. This ending was better than that. I think too many people here wanted all the answers or some crazy farfetched ending because there were so many unique stories to Lost. But, if it was a farfetched ending, then a lot of people would be complaining “that would never happen”. Look at all the people who up until the finale didn’t believe Smokie was the MIB. They thought they were different people/entities and even though it was obvious, many couldn’t believe that it was that straightforward. But in yesterday’s special, the producers stated that MIB could take the form of his previous life, Christian or the smoke.
I think the entire series was fabulous. Yes, we didn’t learn all the secrets to the island, but I don’t care. In the end, I just wanted to know if and how they got off the island. We know several people got off the island, several stayed, and the others died. We know the island really existed. It would have been great to have a couple more seasons to explain all the oddities about the island, but if the show was really about the characters then it doesn’t matter.
[quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.
[quote comment="375455"][quote comment="375369"]
..they should have panned the camera down to the Church basement and there below were all the bad people from LOST having their own little party… just the opposite to the Hallmark card events going on upstairs. Keamy and Patchy and Sun’s Dad…Jin’s Mom… could be drunk off their asses and grabbing some strippers ass…
[/quote]
(The basement has that super secret computer with the giant pendulum that tracks the island.)
doh… Tina Fey-wannabe Zoe stripping for Widmore? Zoe stripping for Hawking? Zoe riding the giant pendulum while stripping.
here she is pole dancing
http://www.sfactor.com/sheila_kelleys_workout/about_sheilasstory.asp/quote
Very funny…yeah, I’d hire you for an episode and see if you continue with the good ideas..ha.
She sure was an underultized character!
And Widmore! He dies way too easily. What a waste.
[quote comment="375316"][quote comment="375193"]So yes, they were making it up as they went along. There was no resolution planned as they strung out the mysteries. But of all the TV series that end with an abstract “God did it” sort of ending, I have to say that this is the best I’ve seen. The producers don’t deserve a pat on the back though. They could have easily made a story equally moving with an actual resolution, they just couldn’t be bothered.[/quote]
You’ve completely missed the mark. Only thing that was completely known from the start was a general outline of the major pieces of the story. You’re taking it to literally to think that they meant every detail was planned out. It’s impossible to avoid unforeseeable circumstances during a 6 year production that cause you to deviate somewhat here or there. Walt is a prime example.[/quote]
Every detail? Try any detail. The mysteries were written purely to titillate with no intention at all of resolving things. Having a final image in mind (Jack dying and closing his eye) is not story – its an image. Nothing of consequence was ever explained. Now, you can decide that the producers were being very abstract and deeply philosophical, leaving things open to the observer’s interpretation, or, more likely, they were just interested in selling commercials and keeping the audience with “really cool stuff” while promising to tell us a story.
Jimmy Kimmel said that complainers have missed the point of the show. The point was the same as that of Jimmy’s show: to sell commercial time. We were promised a story. What we got was a shiny thing to keep our attention on the car commercials.
How stupid an ending, and sooo disappointing!!!!!
I can’t believe I wasted so much time on this stupid show. Hey someone, please come up with a real ending.
This is worse than the 4400 ending without ending.
[quote comment="375499"][quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.[/quote]
What show were you watching?
I feel sorry for the handful of you that did not understand the deep philosophical saga that was delivered to you over the last six seasons. Those of us that “got it” will explain it to you ever the coming weeks. We only ask one thing. Please don’t criticize, mock and quibble over that which you obviously did not understand. We will get to you in time. We will help you understand. No Losties Left Behind!
[quote comment="375495"][quote comment="375277"]Is it really that obvious that the FSW was the afterlife? May be that’s the easiest term to attribute to it, but that’s not what I thought when Christian was telling Jack about it.
I interpreted it to be another reality that really was set off when they exploded the bomb in 1977. I say this because when Juliet dies in Sawyer’s arms her subconsciousness travels to FSW where she sees a glimpse of her conversation with Sawyer at the vending machine. If FSW was in fact death, that means she saw both her and Sawyer in the afterlife, and in fact traveled there before she finally died when she told Sawyer that “it worked”. What worked? Them dying? I don’t think so. Likewise, Desmond told Jack when they were in the light cave that he could take them to a better place. I don’t think it makes much sense for him to say that he wants to take Jack to the afterlife.
When Christian said that we all die at some point I believe that he was trying to say that death is not what’s important. What’s important is redemption. We will all die sooner or later, but what’s important is the peace we find along the way, and the people who have helped us get there. Their journey on the island helped them find peace through the adversity and trial, and the mysteries surrounding the island enhanced their faith. Jack indeed died on the island, but he lives in peace in his other life.[/quote]
FINALLY, Ive been reading posts everywhere this morning after and everyone is talking about purgatory and the afterlife. I saw it much the same as you, this is just another reality, another world in another dimension where they have lives that never involved the island.. the awakening is them realizing this other life, everything they went through and the relationships they built, so in that way they all get their happy ending, no matter what happened in that reality this one is ok and now they have all their memories…
anyone else see it this way?[/quote]
Not to argue… Just because Christian says it is real doesn’t mean it isnt a part of afterlife. I think the only thing left absolutely clear was that the alternate reality was a part of afterlife, Jack starts to cry realizing his own death. They all created this in death because, just as in real life on the island, they all needed each other to move on. This afterlife/reality is atemporal so each character experiences it following their own death. I think they created this place as a reminder that none of them would have been redeemed without the aid of their fellow losties and so they created a place that imitated a reality in which they island never happened. Juliette saying “it worked” (as well as Jack not realizing he is dead right away and all of the flash memories of the island life in the alternate existence) might indicate that in this alternate plane of existence, each character must be awakened, awakened to come to the realization that such a life is a farce compared to the real experiences they had on the island. Through these experiences the characters found redemption, profound meaning and true comradeship; in short I think the alternate reality was used merely to illustrate that the characters would have been wrong in trying to erase their experiences of the island, this is best shown through them remembering and then immediately resuming their affairs (ben’s apology to Locke, the love lifes, hurley and ben talking about the island).
this is just how i see it
Doc Jensen finished part 1 of 2 of the recap!!
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html
anyone wanna share their top ten episode list? here’s mine (feel free to stone me for number 4):
1. the constant
2. the economist
3. the incident
4. the end
5. through the looking glass
6. the shape of things to come
7. ab eterno
8. the variable
9. the substitute
10. the man from tallahassee
Any thought on ben not moving on?
Is he not ready to let go of his guilt? Does he need to wait for Alex to die and forgive him? Would she ever forgive him? Is Alex stuck on the island as a whispering ghost or is that only for souls in a state of unrest? Does Ben have a soul mate (it would seemingly be Hurley in the form of redemption, but this obviously wasnt enough)?
so many questions! It was probably just meant to indicate purgatory, boring..
I want them to write a book or do a podcast or something just to try and tie up the million loose ends
I’m pissed they left way to much on the table, I will never watch any CRAP the these creator make again
The Losties Did NOT die in the crash there are quite a few examples but a easy one is the only place Locke was allowed to be killed was off the island Ben shot Locke three times and threw in the Darhma grave. Without any success. As for the ending we all wanted our Losties back together we got it Its the love for each other that brought this group their Happiness Thank you for a great six years
[quote comment="375447"][/quote]
I disagree w/ Rose and Bernard’s scene being pointless. Rose told Desmond that he has to leave because they already broke the rules by helping him and that they promised to not intervene. That let us know that they have been talking to someone who knows the rules. It also let us know that they have had this figured out for quite some time now which makes sense because their love has always been there. Rose also said something about time which is similar to what Christian told Jack. Rose told Sawyer however many episodes ago… that they are trying so hard to get back to a life that they were unhappy w/ anyway.[/quote]
Well, I DID make an error in my post;
It was Desmond not Jack who insisted on MIB leaving Rose and Bernie alone… but same point; you’re gonna take the word of a Smoke Monster who seems to kill for fun.
I just don’t see any benefit from the scene;
Rules, Smules…
who made these stupid rules?
And it wasn’t RULES that Rose agreed to with MIB it was just a mutual Pact…which in the end ROSE broke anyway…and got caught.
So; Rules, Smules!
Ok, I have to say something positive too;
Some of the photography was awesome all throughout the show and even in the Finale.
The shots at the fight on the cliff with Jack and fLocke were great and other places as well.
The Light pool looked a little cheesy like a cheap Raiders of the Lost Ark scene…
And Hugo; that boy ‘aint NEVER going to get Laid now.
His poor Mama!
Snaisy wrote;
“In my mind, our LOST characters that were in the church are from the same soul group that incarnate together in order to help each other along their spiritual path towards evolution.”
Sounds like a lot of Mumbo Jumbo talk to me.
To quote Frank Zappa;
“Who you jivin’ with that Cosmik Debris?”
Well, some people would rather listen to Barry Manilow (gag) and some people like Miles Davis (yes!).
Erik Satie; “What do you want, Art or groceries”.
Someone wrote;
“could they not have one gay person on this show in six years?”
I mentioned that to my friend while viewing.
And maybe have a Gay person who isn’t a Hot Babe like they often do…someone annoying and NOT lovable.
With the sleeveless shirt all that eyeliner I was starting to think Charley…
Laura Android;
“classy and beautiful ”
is Horrible and boring to others.
Picasso said it best; Good taste is the enemy of Art.
Well, some people like pretty pictures and some people like art.
Look, counter-Complainers; we are not bitching because the show “didn’t end like we wanted”….blah blah blah…
We (myself for sure) are complaining because the show was so damn brilliant in places but fell apart at the end just like Twin Peaks did.
No end Game. I’m 100% sure the writers had no end in sight when the show started…and never came up with one. And why did they really have to? They get the same amount of money either way. Sorry but I’m cynical about ti.
And damn it, I gave the show several years, I have a right to bitch some. I give the show it’s kudos but now it’s time for some Judo.
And some shameless self promotion since people are adding all sorts of attachments here;
bobgilesart.com
Look me up LOST brothers and sisters.
Revised my earlier final thoughts after watching the ep again…
The flash-sideways were sort of a purgatory for lost and tortured souls…As is the life of ghosts, they don’t remember shit and walk throughout their dream-world just living…
It took dead Desmond traveling to this otherside to help kick-start the awakening of these souls to move-on together by remembering their tortured experiences together…If they hadn’t they probably would have just been trapped in that state…Like a cycle…
Showing Jack at the end in the same state to witch he came to the island and flashed to the island illustrates this cycle…
Given the island’s power to transcend time you can be already dead in off-island reality yet your afterlife can already be taking place (Hence Desmond being able to commune with his dead self)…So the island is a place where you can connect to the otherside because of the “special Properties”…
You gotta kinda think that since the island is the mid-point of these realities, when exposed to these phenomenons you (mentally) can exhibit a commune with your otherself…The whispers get trapped on this place because the island shares a part of this “Dead-Reality”…Juliet detonating the bomb so close to the island’s power source in retrospect appears to have created a tear between the afterlife and current island time sentencing our Losties there…
This whole show was basically about some LOST souls finding a way to break the cycle and “Move-on”….What we saw (As in the the ENTIRE effin show!!) was the storyline of their journey that would make-up the things that awoke them in the sideways…
Please someone discuss so I can be at peace with this explanation…
[quote comment="375102"]The ending is this. What happened on the island was REAL WORLD. Everyone who died on the island died in REAL WOLD…As for what the island was, they didn’t really explain it.[/quote]
Thank you, Lendorien. You’re apparently the only other person in the world who didn’t take a bathroom break during Christian Shepherd’s speech in the church. He really couldn’t have said it more plainly. The producers have also said it. The Island is not purgatory, and they didn’t die in the crash. They died at various other times, some on the Island, some after leaving it. THEN they all ended up in the sideways world.
There are lots of remaining questions, but the Island’s reality is not one of them.
To those that say they were dead the whole time you are wrong. That said I would’ve been much happier with the ending if that was the case. These character stories were average at best. I only cared about them because they tied into the island mythology. To find out that the island was nothing more than a cheap vehicle for the character development sucks. They could have gotten the same changes in the characters if they were locked in a haunted amusement park. Very sad about the ending. Sorry but I’ve seen much better character studies than this.(think Six Feet Under) In my opinion they could have been a weak char. study or an awesome sci-fi. Unfortunately they went for the former.
[quote comment="375507"][quote comment="375495"][quote comment="375277"]Is it really that obvious that the FSW was the afterlife? May be that’s the easiest term to attribute to it, but that’s not what I thought when Christian was telling Jack about it.
I interpreted it to be another reality that really was set off when they exploded the bomb in 1977. I say this because when Juliet dies in Sawyer’s arms her subconsciousness travels to FSW where she sees a glimpse of her conversation with Sawyer at the vending machine. If FSW was in fact death, that means she saw both her and Sawyer in the afterlife, and in fact traveled there before she finally died when she told Sawyer that “it worked”. What worked? Them dying? I don’t think so. Likewise, Desmond told Jack when they were in the light cave that he could take them to a better place. I don’t think it makes much sense for him to say that he wants to take Jack to the afterlife.
When Christian said that we all die at some point I believe that he was trying to say that death is not what’s important. What’s important is redemption. We will all die sooner or later, but what’s important is the peace we find along the way, and the people who have helped us get there. Their journey on the island helped them find peace through the adversity and trial, and the mysteries surrounding the island enhanced their faith. Jack indeed died on the island, but he lives in peace in his other life.[/quote]
FINALLY, Ive been reading posts everywhere this morning after and everyone is talking about purgatory and the afterlife. I saw it much the same as you, this is just another reality, another world in another dimension where they have lives that never involved the island.. the awakening is them realizing this other life, everything they went through and the relationships they built, so in that way they all get their happy ending, no matter what happened in that reality this one is ok and now they have all their memories…
anyone else see it this way?[/quote]
Not to argue… Just because Christian says it is real doesn’t mean it isnt a part of afterlife. I think the only thing left absolutely clear was that the alternate reality was a part of afterlife, Jack starts to cry realizing his own death. They all created this in death because, just as in real life on the island, they all needed each other to move on. This afterlife/reality is atemporal so each character experiences it following their own death. I think they created this place as a reminder that none of them would have been redeemed without the aid of their fellow losties and so they created a place that imitated a reality in which they island never happened. Juliette saying “it worked” (as well as Jack not realizing he is dead right away and all of the flash memories of the island life in the alternate existence) might indicate that in this alternate plane of existence, each character must be awakened, awakened to come to the realization that such a life is a farce compared to the real experiences they had on the island. Through these experiences the characters found redemption, profound meaning and true comradeship; in short I think the alternate reality was used merely to illustrate that the characters would have been wrong in trying to erase their experiences of the island, this is best shown through them remembering and then immediately resuming their affairs (ben’s apology to Locke, the love lifes, hurley and ben talking about the island).
this is just how i see it[/quote]
I appreciate your response. I just think it’s stupid, not you just the whole idea. I would have been way more satisfied with it being an alternate reality. I agree with everything about the characters needing to remember these experiences I just hate the hokie idea of this being some place between heaven and hell. I always knew I would be pissed if they went the religious route its too easy and a cop out. Saying that, I loved and was moved by everyones epiphanies. I just think it would have been truer to the story to have it be an alternate dimension/universe where they all got to live the lives they hadn’t been able to without the island and what they went through and with these collective memories they get to have the life they always wanted and still share in everything they had been through. Way better ending IMHO. I’ll watch it again but may choose to see it that way.. Its lost after all, I think we can take what we want from it =)
[quote comment="375515"][quote comment="375102"]The ending is this. What happened on the island was REAL WORLD. Everyone who died on the island died in REAL WOLD…As for what the island was, they didn’t really explain it.[/quote]
Thank you, Lendorien. You’re apparently the only other person in the world who didn’t take a bathroom break during Christian Shepherd’s speech in the church. He really couldn’t have said it more plainly. The producers have also said it. The Island is not purgatory, and they didn’t die in the crash. They died at various other times, some on the Island, some after leaving it. THEN they all ended up in the sideways world.
There are lots of remaining questions, but the Island’s reality is not one of them.[/quote]
can I also say thank you? this is exactly how I feel
Loved [quote comment="375341"]To all of those who are upset with the way the show ended, I ask one question…Why? Has LOST ever been a show about answers? It has always been a show about love, redemption, and coming to terms with their own demons.
I have seen many posts that are still asking some of the same questions. What are the numbers? A coinsidence. They were the numbers given to candidates, that also happend to show up EVERYWHERE. The reason being…Because. Is that a good answer? It’s neither good or bad. It is what it is. Walt left the island and is having a better life for it. Move on! The FSW was limbo, the rest of the story was real. That is a given. The shoe at the end show us that it was real. That is why they made the effort to show it (and the wreckedge is just a backdrop for the credits as many have stated previously). All the time traveling, DHARMA, smoke monster, etc…where essential to get the characters to the place they needed to be. Why do we need an explanation? Can we really time travel? No. So how can we really explain it?
I think this was the best ending the show could have had. How could we admire D&C if they just gave us a list of explanations. I love the idea of interpretation. It lets us connect with the characters in a more personal way. We all loved the show, otherwise we would not be on this blog. To all you nitpickers, go rewatch all the seasons. While we loved the Sci-fi mystery, it was the writing and the characters that brought it to life. I for one am a fan of how this ended.[/quote]
EXACTLY! I’m glad the more sci-fi detail-obsessed fans didn’t get what they wanted. The mysteries were fun and kept the momentum of the show going, but you’d have to be kinda delusional to think that you’d be satisfied with ANY answers given. This was a TV show, not literature or a movie where you have a clearly defined start and end. This show could’ve been canceled at any point and I think the writers did an excellent job of tying things together while entertaining the audience….if they hadn’t, most of you wouldn’t be so dissapointed.
@krackie – dude that’s a really selfish post…I’m certainly not a hater or a Jacob Kool-aid drinker, but as someone who stands in the middle I find it disrespectful to blow off so many people who were TRAINED to watch this show a certain way and didn’t get a payoff…D&C TRAINED the audience to watch LOST in a certain way which meant examining even the most minuscule detail (The picture frames changing on the staircase wall during Miles first ghost-vacuuming flashbacks comes to mind)…I could never be glad that half a fanbase who were trained to watch the show a certain way found out all their efforts were futile…
[quote comment="375471"][quote comment="375466"]
I don’t believe in Purgatory, no offense to anyone that does. I believe in the afterlife (Heaven and Hell) but the FSW WAS NOT PURGATORY. Purgatory is supposed to be a place of temporary punishment or paying for your sins after death. The characters were not being punished. We saw our LOSTIES grow into better people and change their lives due to their experiences on the island.[/quote]
I agree it was not THE PURGATORY, but I think it was LIKE purgatory.
BTW, temporal punishment…not necessarily temporary punishment.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm/quote
I purposely wrote temporary because the meaning is the same and I’m sure some people don’t know or care to look up the meaning of temporal. Usually we are on the same wavelength but this can’t be any kind of Purgatory since there is no punishment involved.
I hope they show the finale again with the pop ups that explain everything.
[quote comment="375487"]Absolutely loved the ending… Why should anyone think that all of the mysteries and every little detail of the Island would be resolved. If we take for granted that Jack’s character is the “eye” through which the show was shown, from his perspective, he only knows what he finds out to be true. It is his transformation from a broken, “lost”, faithless soul, searching for meaning in his life, and the people and situations along the way, that shape and mold who he ultimately becomes. He doesn’t have the luxury of time to unravel all of the mysteries, he just has to take a leap of faith that it is all real, he has a purpose in life, and this is it, and just do it. What greater purpose can a character in a story have than to be purposed with the fate that he has found himself to be in, that being the unique position of being THE ONE that gets to save the world, and every one he loves and cares for. Answering all of the questions would be a nice prologue to the story, but not necessary for our hero to have his destiny fulfilled. Jack never got all of the answers… so neither will we…
After all, what we are ultimately asking for is for someone to reveal to us the secrets of our own existence. We don’t get to have those answers until our own final moment, and we close our eyes on this existence… and open them on the other side…[/quote]
this is exactly how I feel about the show. it tackled the biggest mystery of them all and was never a show about people lost on an island for me. I watched to find out why these people were connected together by all these weird coincidences…and to see Sayid scissor kick people. the producers can’t ever answer questions for anyone because these are eternal questions. It sounds like people wanted this show to be a physics lesson judging by these “questions”. I totally understood the message the show wanted to get across and it’s funny how those that don’t are in many ways like the people in the FSW that weren’t ready to go inside the church yet.
[quote comment="375523"][quote comment="375487"]Absolutely loved the ending… Why should anyone think that all of the mysteries and every little detail of the Island would be resolved. If we take for granted that Jack’s character is the “eye” through which the show was shown, from his perspective, he only knows what he finds out to be true. It is his transformation from a broken, “lost”, faithless soul, searching for meaning in his life, and the people and situations along the way, that shape and mold who he ultimately becomes. He doesn’t have the luxury of time to unravel all of the mysteries, he just has to take a leap of faith that it is all real, he has a purpose in life, and this is it, and just do it. What greater purpose can a character in a story have than to be purposed with the fate that he has found himself to be in, that being the unique position of being THE ONE that gets to save the world, and every one he loves and cares for. Answering all of the questions would be a nice prologue to the story, but not necessary for our hero to have his destiny fulfilled. Jack never got all of the answers… so neither will we…
After all, what we are ultimately asking for is for someone to reveal to us the secrets of our own existence. We don’t get to have those answers until our own final moment, and we close our eyes on this existence… and open them on the other side…[/quote]
this is exactly how I feel about the show. it tackled the biggest mystery of them all and was never a show about people lost on an island for me. I watched to find out why these people were connected together by all these weird coincidences…and to see Sayid scissor kick people. the producers can’t ever answer questions for anyone because these are eternal questions. It sounds like people wanted this show to be a physics lesson judging by these “questions”. I totally understood the message the show wanted to get across and it’s funny how those that don’t are in many ways like the people in the FSW that weren’t ready to go inside the church yet.[/quote]
because we aren’t religious? I get the point and idea, its just that we were lead to believe it was so much more than some spiritual experience
[quote comment="375520"]@krackie – dude that’s a really selfish post…I’m certainly not a hater or a Jacob Kool-aid drinker, but as someone who stands in the middle I find it disrespectful to blow off so many people who were TRAINED to watch this show a certain way and didn’t get a payoff…D&C TRAINED the audience to watch LOST in a certain way which meant examining even the most minuscule detail (The picture frames changing on the staircase wall during Miles first ghost-vacuuming flashbacks comes to mind)…I could never be glad that half a fanbase who were trained to watch the show a certain way found out all their efforts were futile…[/quote]
I think it’s selfish to say this show wasted years of your life and be so snarky about the ending when D&C gave you 6 years of unforgettable entertainment. As for “being trained” to watch this a certain way…if they hadn’t included all the little gimmicks to keep you watching, the show would’ve been canceled season 2 at best. The process of watching/discussing LOST was an amazing experience and to allow some pretty irrelevant unanswered questions to spoil that is weird to me. It’s like fretting over a pen you lost at 7yo on your deathbed. Gotta look at the bigger picture.
Officially:
Purgatory is the condition OR process of purification OR temporary punishment…
The word “purgatory”, derived through Anglo-Norman and Old French from the Latin word purgatorium.[8]HAS COME TO REFER ALSO TO A WIDE RANGE of historical and modern conceptions of postmortem suffering short of everlasting damnation,[1] and is used, in a NON-SPECIFIC SENSE, to mean any place or condition of suffering or torment, especially one that is temporary…
In conclusion, BY DEFINITION the flashsideways can indeed be called purgatory, because purgatory doesn’t just mean the one anglo-saxon catholic definition…
[quote comment="375524"][quote comment="375523"][quote comment="375487"]Absolutely loved the ending… Why should anyone think that all of the mysteries and every little detail of the Island would be resolved. If we take for granted that Jack’s character is the “eye” through which the show was shown, from his perspective, he only knows what he finds out to be true. It is his transformation from a broken, “lost”, faithless soul, searching for meaning in his life, and the people and situations along the way, that shape and mold who he ultimately becomes. He doesn’t have the luxury of time to unravel all of the mysteries, he just has to take a leap of faith that it is all real, he has a purpose in life, and this is it, and just do it. What greater purpose can a character in a story have than to be purposed with the fate that he has found himself to be in, that being the unique position of being THE ONE that gets to save the world, and every one he loves and cares for. Answering all of the questions would be a nice prologue to the story, but not necessary for our hero to have his destiny fulfilled. Jack never got all of the answers… so neither will we…
After all, what we are ultimately asking for is for someone to reveal to us the secrets of our own existence. We don’t get to have those answers until our own final moment, and we close our eyes on this existence… and open them on the other side…[/quote]
this is exactly how I feel about the show. it tackled the biggest mystery of them all and was never a show about people lost on an island for me. I watched to find out why these people were connected together by all these weird coincidences…and to see Sayid scissor kick people. the producers can’t ever answer questions for anyone because these are eternal questions. It sounds like people wanted this show to be a physics lesson judging by these “questions”. I totally understood the message the show wanted to get across and it’s funny how those that don’t are in many ways like the people in the FSW that weren’t ready to go inside the church yet.[/quote]
because we aren’t religious? I get the point and idea, its just that we were lead to believe it was so much more than some spiritual experience[/quote]
I’m not religeous AT ALL, so don’t paint me that way please. You weren’t led to believe anything other than the fact that there was something going on that wasn’t visible to the naked eye. You chose to focus on whatever aspect of the show you chose to focus on.
[quote comment="375519"]Loved [quote comment="375341"]To all of those who are upset with the way the show ended, I ask one question…Why? Has LOST ever been a show about answers? It has always been a show about love, redemption, and coming to terms with their own demons.
I have seen many posts that are still asking some of the same questions. What are the numbers? A coinsidence. They were the numbers given to candidates, that also happend to show up EVERYWHERE. The reason being…Because. Is that a good answer? It’s neither good or bad. It is what it is. Walt left the island and is having a better life for it. Move on! The FSW was limbo, the rest of the story was real. That is a given. The shoe at the end show us that it was real. That is why they made the effort to show it (and the wreckedge is just a backdrop for the credits as many have stated previously). All the time traveling, DHARMA, smoke monster, etc…where essential to get the characters to the place they needed to be. Why do we need an explanation? Can we really time travel? No. So how can we really explain it?
I think this was the best ending the show could have had. How could we admire D&C if they just gave us a list of explanations. I love the idea of interpretation. It lets us connect with the characters in a more personal way. We all loved the show, otherwise we would not be on this blog. To all you nitpickers, go rewatch all the seasons. While we loved the Sci-fi mystery, it was the writing and the characters that brought it to life. I for one am a fan of how this ended.[/quote]
EXACTLY! I’m glad the more sci-fi detail-obsessed fans didn’t get what they wanted. The mysteries were fun and kept the momentum of the show going, but you’d have to be kinda delusional to think that you’d be satisfied with ANY answers given. This was a TV show, not literature or a movie where you have a clearly defined start and end. This show could’ve been canceled at any point and I think the writers did an excellent job of tying things together while entertaining the audience….if they hadn’t, most of you wouldn’t be so dissapointed.[/quote]
I don’t get you guys. So at the end of “The Sixth Sense” and “Jacob’s Ladder” for instance, were you disappointed that you got it right at the end. That nice kinda “oh shit” surprise just doesn’t do it for you. I’m assuming you would actually prefer a bunch of Walt and Claire character development that leads right to a brick wall? What kind of skill or talent does it take to start a bunch or interesting beginnings and then not have some kind of “oh shit” ending. Season one had very specific developments: child birth on the Island, Walt, the numbers, and let’s not forget Claire raising Aaron by herself. I got robbed out of my “oh shit” moment. Why is it wrong to be pissed about that? Okay, us sci-fi guys didn’t get our way because the MYSTERY had no real resolution.
[quote comment="375499"][quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.[/quote]
Yeah man… I totally saw Desmond on the plane…
[quote comment="375474"]
6. Here’s a quote:
“The difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense.” Tom Clancy
Not sure how that applies to LOST, but what the heck.
Peace out, folks![/quote]
What!? Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of Oz, Rip van Winkle, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow etc.. don’t make sense? Just kidding. That’s a good one from Tom Clancy. Great author BTW.
[quote comment="375527"][quote comment="375524"][quote comment="375523"][quote comment="375487"]Absolutely loved the ending… Why should anyone think that all of the mysteries and every little detail of the Island would be resolved. If we take for granted that Jack’s character is the “eye” through which the show was shown, from his perspective, he only knows what he finds out to be true. It is his transformation from a broken, “lost”, faithless soul, searching for meaning in his life, and the people and situations along the way, that shape and mold who he ultimately becomes. He doesn’t have the luxury of time to unravel all of the mysteries, he just has to take a leap of faith that it is all real, he has a purpose in life, and this is it, and just do it. What greater purpose can a character in a story have than to be purposed with the fate that he has found himself to be in, that being the unique position of being THE ONE that gets to save the world, and every one he loves and cares for. Answering all of the questions would be a nice prologue to the story, but not necessary for our hero to have his destiny fulfilled. Jack never got all of the answers… so neither will we…
After all, what we are ultimately asking for is for someone to reveal to us the secrets of our own existence. We don’t get to have those answers until our own final moment, and we close our eyes on this existence… and open them on the other side…[/quote]
this is exactly how I feel about the show. it tackled the biggest mystery of them all and was never a show about people lost on an island for me. I watched to find out why these people were connected together by all these weird coincidences…and to see Sayid scissor kick people. the producers can’t ever answer questions for anyone because these are eternal questions. It sounds like people wanted this show to be a physics lesson judging by these “questions”. I totally understood the message the show wanted to get across and it’s funny how those that don’t are in many ways like the people in the FSW that weren’t ready to go inside the church yet.[/quote]
because we aren’t religious? I get the point and idea, its just that we were lead to believe it was so much more than some spiritual experience[/quote]
I’m not religeous AT ALL, so don’t paint me that way please. You weren’t led to believe anything other than the fact that there was something going on that wasn’t visible to the naked eye. You chose to focus on whatever aspect of the show you chose to focus on.[/quote]
I apologize if you thought I was calling you religious. I was merely saying that the ending was very fantasy based, like religion. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy it I’m just saying I think it was a bit weak in the context of the show. thats not whole heartedly dissing it I’m just pointing out what I see as a flaw or cop out. I wanted a bit more than a story about redemption.
@krackie – To some people YOUR “bigger picture” is a “smaller picture”….Look I enjoyed the hell outta the finale and as a self-contained episode in a self-contained season it was brilliant (shit I’m embarrassed to say i almost lost it like 3 times, especially during the Hurley scenes), but if you extrapolate it verses the entire series as a whole i understand the backlash…
The finale was soooooo emotionally gratifying that it is easy to lose sight of things, but when the episode ends and you have time to reflect over 6 years of a great or potentially great program the loose threads matter…Like Jack said “It all matters!!” but to some, it was like so much didn’t matter and if you cared about that stuff more than the emotionally-charged stuff you felt played…
[quote comment="375532"]@krackie – To some people YOUR “bigger picture” is a “smaller picture”….Look I enjoyed the hell outta the finale and as a self-contained episode in a self-contained season it was brilliant (shit I’m embarrassed to say i almost lost it like 3 times, especially during the Hurley scenes), but if you extrapolate it verses the entire series as a whole i understand the backlash…
The finale was soooooo emotionally gratifying that it is easy to lose sight of things, but when the episode ends and you have time to reflect over 6 years of a great or potentially great program the loose threads matter…Like Jack said “It all matters!!” but to some, it was like so much didn’t matter and if you cared about that stuff more than the emotionally-charged stuff you felt played…[/quote]
Perfect…
[quote comment="375533"][quote comment="375532"]@krackie – To some people YOUR “bigger picture” is a “smaller picture”….Look I enjoyed the hell outta the finale and as a self-contained episode in a self-contained season it was brilliant (shit I’m embarrassed to say i almost lost it like 3 times, especially during the Hurley scenes), but if you extrapolate it verses the entire series as a whole i understand the backlash…
The finale was soooooo emotionally gratifying that it is easy to lose sight of things, but when the episode ends and you have time to reflect over 6 years of a great or potentially great program the loose threads matter…Like Jack said “It all matters!!” but to some, it was like so much didn’t matter and if you cared about that stuff more than the emotionally-charged stuff you felt played…[/quote]
Perfect…[/quote]
It was a very good episode emotionally, dont be shamed about tearing up. I cried more than once, I thought after six years I deserved it
[quote comment="375520"] I find it disrespectful to blow off so many people who were TRAINED to watch this show a certain way and didn’t get a payoff…D&C TRAINED the audience to watch LOST in a certain way which meant examining even the most minuscule detail …I could never be glad that half a fanbase who were trained to watch the show a certain way found out all their efforts were futile…[/quote]
I agree with this wing. I also think of myself in the middle, but probably leaning toward the hate side, only because I dislike stories that attempt to leave everyone happy.
Playing devil’s advocate regarding the island being the “real” world and not purgatory in the least, to support this people have stated, “D&C said so.” Well D&C said a lot of things some true some false. To me the consistent thing about LOST was all these converging theories that no one could prove…just like no one can prove that the island was the “real” world.
Admittedly, I have not gone back to listen to what Christian said, but from my first go round, I did not think he was definitive about anything that he said. I will be pleasantly surprised if he is in fact definitive when I do listen to it again.
In that “real” world supernatural stuff occurred, a human with god-like properties was present, even a shape shifting entity, yet in the FSW/Alt. Line/purgatory world, everything went according to the laws of nature, physics, etc. If people got shot–they died.
For the first 5 years, this show was about creating a bond between the ‘survivors,’ so that they could move on in their ‘purgatory,’ because their purgatory required them to all realize that this survival period was the most important period of their lives in order for them to let go…this seems circular.
Can we really accept that the show, after all they took us through, can be simplified as folks coming to grips with their bonds, letting go of issues, and moving on…a concept introduced in the latter half of the final season no less?
My friend who enlightened me on the Rod Serling bit has also dropped this take.
“Viewers, in this box (labeled Hutton) I have something that will entertain and astound you!” We viewers, examine the box a few times and say – “It sounds as if there is a big rock in this box.” D&C then say – “Inside this box is something you have never seen before and will never see again, we will reveal it after 6 years”
For the next 6 years, they tell you stories of how the thing in this box can cure illness, can bring people back to life, can time travel, can turn into black smoke, etc. etc. etc.
Then at the end of year 5, they reveal that there actually IS a character name James Hutton, and halfway thru year 6, they start telling you stories about igneous, sedimentary, metamorphic…objects. Soon they start spouting off sayings like – “A rolling stone gathers no moss”; “People who live in glass houses should not throw stones” and then, as your horror grows and grows, they finally reveal that, inside the box is in fact – A ROCK!”
It seemed to be alot like Titanic’s ending – she died later but they all came to meet her when she did die.
why can’t people just let us complain?!?!
i’m glad everyone who enjoyed the ending did so, but for myself and others, i saw great stories unfold from season 1 – 5, with many mysteries/plots that captivated me from week to week, but the ending was just dull. it seemed like, okay, let’s create a happy ending in tribute to all the fans of the show, that’s what they would want. or some crap like that.
instead, it left me thinking that many parts of the show had no meaning, no reason (to the way it ended). true, the characters made the show interesting, but so did the magical and mysterious island and what happened on it…..to have the show end off of it, was just a bit disappointing.
@RGS – The thing about LOST is Seasons 1-3 to a certain extent make sense and Seasons 4-6 to a certain extent makes sense, but Seasons 1-6 don’t make the same level of sense throughout, so the feel of the show in season 6 is like “Stranger in a Strange Land” (not literally^^)compared to something in Season 3 for instance, so the one CONSTANT^^ that has always made sense (s1-S6) is the emotional aspect of the series…And they played that up for all it’s worth in the finale…I’m not sure they could have cherrypicked anything else to go fullblast on other than the emotional journey…With that said, had they found a way to adequately incorporate the whole time-loop//time travel issues in relationship to the island I personally would have smiled more…But I know everyone had their “Great White Shark” and if it was the outrigger shooting or what the light was, or what exactly the island was, you felt played…
Even before last night’s episode it was absolutely clear that they were NOT all killed in the plane crash. We saw dead bodies AND people that were alive. How could anyone survive such a crash? They survived because they were brought to the island by Jacob for a reason, which we all know. Had it been anywhere else other than the island, they would have all died.
Any comments made by the characters prior to the finale can all be explained. Jack told Kate in S1 “Three days ago
we all died. (Not literally) Everybody gets a second chance here. The past doesn’t matter.” He said this because Kate wanted to tell him why she was in the Marshall’s custody and what she had done. None of it mattered, they were all in the same situation and needed to work together to survive.
Richard thought he was dead and in Hell when he arrived on the island. Jacob convinced him otherwise. After Jacob was killed, Richard made similar comments about them all being dead and the island was Hell. The proverbial rug had been pulled out from under him and he felt his whole life had been meaningless. He was in shock and distraught. Later he came to his senses. They weren’t dead.
Quite a few times Hurley said, “We are so dead.” He thought they were going to die not that they were already dead.
[quote comment="375467"]I think Richard started aging once the candidate had been instated and Jacobs time is over. Once Jack drank the water Richard’s job was done. When the ashes were completely gone and Jack took over, another cycle begins…hence Richard goes back to what he was.[/quote]
And Miles discovers Richard’s first gray hair.
[quote comment="375159"]When you guys say the people that aren’t there havent died yet doesn’t make sense. Hurley would have lived longer than anyone being the “protector” of the island.[/quote]
Jack had Hurley drink the “water”, but Jack didn’t mumble the words that Jacob & MIB’s “mom” and Jacob mumbled when Jacob drank the “water” and when Jack drank the “water”, so I believe that Hurley lived til a normal age and dies on the island beleiving that he was protecting it.
[quote comment="375484"]The FSW they introduced this series was to throw us off of the real questions, that they never answered. Everybody is preocupied trying to figure out what the FSW means and the actual questions as were mentioned before never got answered.[/quote]
I disagree. We allowed ourselves to believe and assumed the FSW was what would have happened if the plane never crashed. The writers didn’t deceive us. It was clever writing. What specific unanswered questions are you referring to?
Random answers/Theories:
1) Plane flying overhead when Jack is dying is the plan Lapidous is flying with Richard, Kate, etc.
2) Walt and Aron may still be special, like someone mentioned before, maybe they one day rule the island or are important during the time Hurley & Ben run things.
3) Everyone mentions the polar bears…. I always thought Darma was just testing time travel with larger mammals instead of rabbits (hence why Charlotte found a polar bear leash in the desert)
4)LOST was for entertainment, not everything is to be answered. It is an adventure and some things are meant to be unsolved and mysterious, especially with the best piece of television in history.
Loved the finale, but still have questions:
– So, what about all the fake people in the FSW construct, like David? What happens to them? Does it matter?
– Widmore: good or bad?
– Who made the statue on top of Jacob’s house? (I know it doesn’t matter, but I wanna know!)
– What is Smokey’s name?
– WTF was Eliose Hawkins talking to Desmond about at the concert? I guess she knew they were all dead? So, what was her point? Why does she care? Writer head-fake?
– So, once ‘enlightened/compliant’ Desmond walked out of the electromagnetic machine, he knew everything would be OK because one day everyone would eventually die anyway and come together again in total happiness? Huh?
– Did the plane at the end make it to safety? Or, was that the plane wreckage shown at the very end from that plane? D’oh!
– If the plane did make it, does that mean Richard is still immortal? He wasn’t at the church at the end, so I guess so. Spin-off?
– Why was the sunken-island shown at the beginning of the season? Writer head-fake?
I wanted so badly to feel like I had after nearly all of the episodes had ended during the 6 previous seasons. That feeling of “THAT WAS TOTALLY AWESOME!” But the writers didn’t give it to me and I feel absolutely ripped off. What a pathetic sorry-assed ending to a terrific show. It was a cop-out if you ask me. Just like a previous post stated, wouldn’t it have been to sit there and watch the ending adding up all the little clues that were dropped to us during the countless hours of watching and rehashing every episode?!!! Sooooo many things could have been explained and they weren’t! WHY?!!!! I’m pissed. So much for owning the complete DVD set.
[quote comment="375417"]I don’t think its accurate to say certain characters aren’t there because they’re not dead yet. Everyone who could have possibly been in that church, WAS there. Time doesn’t exist in that world, you don’t wait around for people. Everyone was on the same time line in the FSW even though some died LONG before others (think Boone and Hurley). So I think it’s safe to say that if Walt could have been there, even if he died much later than any of the castaways, he would have been there just the same. Its just a question of how profound an effect that character had on the others’ lives. Walt and the other missing castaways probably had their own unique reunions, with other characters we’ve never met who affected their lives the most.
It even makes sense that Aaron wasn’t there, I mean Claire was his mother yes, but if you think about it, Jack was the only one who was reunited with a parent.[/quote]
I just watched the ending again. Baby Aaron was in the Church. Charlie was holding him and Shannon and Clair were looking at him. Perhaps they both died in childbirth…Who knows?? But he was there…….
[quote comment="375483"][quote comment="375481"]Saw this on another site, so I cut & paste it. I believe it’s a perfect summary.
I believe that everyone died in the plane crash.
Christian said it himself, time was irrellevent. Everyone died in the crash. The island was created for the “flawed” people to find some closure to prepare for the afterlife. They were alone and needed to show that they are ready to move on. The flash-sideways was created as a final way for those stuck in purgatory (the island) to move on. The island and the flash sideways were connected. What happened on the island was the internal struggle to be good and for the characters to “let go” so that in the flash sideways they may move on (scene in the church). Jack was the last to “let go” on the island (he died, the people escaped and he saved the island) thus allowing him in the sideways to move on to the light. As the characters “let go” they realized they were dead in the flash sideways. I feel as though The Man in Black was stuck on the island never proving that he was ready to leave. He became bitter and wanted to kill the person guiding him (jacob) along to the light. Jacob’s time was done and hurley inherited the guide position. Ultimately, the people needed each other to move on. Hence the names on the wall. The lost characters needed everyone “realized” to move to the light. So it was the job of the guide (jacob) to help them realize it. I will give jack as an example of this thoery. He needed to save the island. He saved the island and once that happened he died and realized that he was ready to move on. Hurley realized he was going to become the new guide. Every character had a goal on the island so once those were completed they were able to realized they were ready to move on. They made the connections and/or fixed relationships in death that they never could in life and then moved to a better place. To explain the people like penny and others who were not on the plane, was that time like christian said was irrellevent. Penny could have lived to be 100 and then died and when they finally realized they were dead, was transported back to the church to be with desmond. Making the connection with loved ones before moving on.
in short, everyone needs to resolve something in death that wasn’t resolved in life. After that is resolved, then you are able to move on. Each path is different but in the end its the connections we made, or not made that help/hinder us. We are all connected and looking for closure. And thats the end…great ending…[/quote]
What site did you find that on?[/quote]
We have 6 seasons of evidence that they didn’t all die in the crash of 815. There were 324 passengers on the plane and most of them did die but not all. How do you explain away the dead bodies? So our LOSTIES are dead so I guess Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Locke, Michael, Walt, Sun, Jin, Claire, Charlie, Boone, Shannon, Rose, Bernard and the rest of the passengers are imagining all the other people on the island that didn’t die in THEIR plane crash? Ben, all the Others, Desmond, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, Lapidus, Ilana, Keamy, Omar, Minkowski and everyone else that wasn’t on Flight 815 were all figments of the LOSTIES imagination as they lived as zombies on the island? Then a few of our dead LOST characters left the island and went home only to come back? Ben killed Locke again off the island since he had already died in the plane crash. Hurley could see and talk to dead people and none of them told him that HE was dead too and so were all his friends? And what about Miles? The whisperers like Michael decided to pull a fast one on Hurley and not tell him he was dead? Oh I know, it probably was against the rules right? And people say LOST is confusing!
They were dead in the “FSW” story lines and in the church at the end. Whatever Christian said about time did not prove or mean they died in the crash and he never said they did. Time is irrelevant in death. You are no longer bound by your earthly body so time and space don’t matter. Everything we saw in the FSW could have happened in a nanosecond for each character.
The island was created for the flawed people? Well that describes every person alive and that ever lived. No one is perfect, it’s called being human.
The names on the wall had nothing to do with our characters needing each other to move on. They didn’t even know most of the people whose names were on the wall or in the Lighthouse.
How can you fix a relationship when you’re DEAD? What does being alone have to do with being ready to move on? Every character had a goal on the island and once those were completed they were able to move on?
What goal did Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, Dr. Artz, the people at the Temple, Ilana, Boone, Shannon, Alex etc. complete before they were snuffed out? Yes a few of them were at the church but what goal did they complete?
What happened on the island was the same as what happens in life. The trials and tribulations either make you better or bitter. The people we encounter and our relationships are what enrich our lives.
Everyone needs to resolve something in death that wasn’t resolved in life and after that is resolved, you are able to move on? This wasn’t The Sixth Sense. The characters changed for the better BEFORE they died.
By the way, I think Ben didn’t go in b/c of two possibilities:
1) He awakened to all the bad things he did in his real life on and off the island and needed to contemplate and reflect on his sins.
2) He wanted to spend some more time with Alex, even though the FSW isnt the real world, he wanted to just spend as much time as he could with the family life he probably always wanted…. much like Eloise who was scared Daniel was going with Desmond, she wanted to have her son with her as long as she could to hold on.
Just my opinion, probably no one will read this far down the blog, never seen this many comments since the first season!
I think Christian was as definitive as a character can be in LOST when he stated that everyone in the church was real and everything that happened to them was real. They did not die in the crash. What we saw on the show actually happened. Some died on the island before Jack, some died long after, presumably after living a long natural life.
The most startling thing about the FSW world is that, in the end, it had nothing to do with the island. Apparently, according to the show, this form of purgatory is something all people pass through, regardless of their experiences. Technically any dramatic show on television could have used this concept and it would have been just as relevant to the actual plot. Not knocking it just an observation.
did any of you guys catch the hilarious target ads that ran during the finale? I found one that was unaired and its even better hahahaha
[quote comment="375499"][quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.[/quote]
During season one, Desmond was on the island as flight 815 flew over the island; he wasn’t in the plane.
[quote comment="375554"][quote comment="375499"][quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.[/quote]
During season one, Desmond was on the island as flight 815 flew over the island; he wasn’t in the plane.[/quote]
Yes He was in the hatch already, hence why the plane crashed
“Jack, you don’t have a son. You don’t have a son, JACK!” That was my goose bump moment…my WTF is going on moment. Share yours.
[quote comment="375503"]
Hey someone, please come up with a real ending.[/quote]
Interesting idea. Why don’t you go first?
[quote comment="375501"]
Nothing of consequence was ever explained.
[/quote]
It’s very easy to make blanket statements as evidence for why you are unhappy with the show (not trying to single you out, Mike, you’re certainly not the only one doing this), but why don’t you try listing a few items that you think weren’t explained? Like CharleneRay said in comment 513 (although I think she was being sarcastic in some sense – my apologies if I’m wrong), maybe someone here can explain them for you.
Here is my theory:
Oceanic 815 crashed and everyone died. The people who “died in the crash” and were not involved in the show went directly to heaven or hell. The island was a kind of matrix entirely constructed for the purpose of determining whether the survivors would go to heaven or hell. The presence of the other people (Widmore, Penny, Miles etc.) is irrelevant as they were just there to add to the saga of the survivors.
I think the FSW was there as a sort of “holding room” for those survivors who died on the island as they all needed to move on together.
All of the survivors were flawed individuals but were not “bad people” – the island was a second chance to prove their true nature. The final test of the island was to see whether the remaining survivors would do the correct thing and stop the MIB.
Perhaps Michael was not in the last scene as he blew his second chance by betraying all his friends and as a result ended up in hell?
In short the entire thing was an elaborate test of character.
“The Great Divorce” by CS Lewis, I think that will play a huge part in explaining what ultimately happened. In that book people live in a purgatory-like world. One day a bus comes and takes them all to the outskirts of heaven where they were confronted by someone/something from their life. If they can let go of that person/thing and move on, they can go on to heaven and their whole life was leading them to heaven. If they cannot let go, then they return to purgatory/Hell and their whole life was leading them there.
I think because of the trauma their souls went through on the island, they promised to meet up in the afterlife. And they couldn’t move on to heaven, together, until they all let go and accepted/forgave themselves for what happened in their lives. If you noticed, their sideways/purgatory lives were all constructed around what they wanted/clung to on the island. Jack gave himself a son so that he could be the father that he never had. Locke gave himself a relationship with his father and Helen, but also blamed himself for the lack of relationship. Sayid could never forgive himself for what kind of person he once was, so his sideways world was set up to continue to punish himself for it. Sawyer had begun to see himself as a good person on the island, so his sideways world, he made himself a good guy, though he couldn’t totally let go and thats why he was alone. Kate still saw herself in terms of her crime. They found their final redemption in one another and with the person who loved them for who they truly were. Kate loved Jack for Jack. Juliet and Sawyer truly loved each other. As much as Sayid always clung to the idea of Nadia, he could never accept that she might love him. It was only with Shannon that he found someone who loved him for who he truly was. If you noticed, except for Ben, they all had flashes of the happy moments of their lives, which is why they were so happy(even though they were dead) because they had accepted the full lives they lived and were ready to move on. Even Sayid, who could never forgive himself in life, found acceptance and could move on in death. That’s why Ben couldn’t move on; he didn’t forgive himself.
The reason that I think that characters like Walt, Michael, Eko, Ana Lucia, and Ben weren’t there because their redemption isn’t tied specifically to the island, or at least not to those people. Ben’s redemption would be tied to Alex and Rousseau. Michael’s redemption is tied to Walt, but I don’t think that Walt is tied to the island. Remember, he was only there for about two months when he was eleven years old. I think he went on to live a full life totally seperate from the island. Eko would be tied to his brother and life in Africa. Ana Lucia would be tied to her job in LA and the baby that she lost. And while Boone and Shannon weren’t on the show that long, it was on the island that Boone let go of his love for Shannon (and died) and that Shannon found her true love (and died). Same thing with Miles, Lapides, and Faraday. Their most significant connections were off the island.
That’s what I think, anyway. I think what will throw people off is that they think everyone needed to die on the island. Obviously, they didn’t. Christian even said that; there wasn’t time there. Some of them when on to live long and happy lives off the island. They all just ended up there whenever they died in life, but returned to the people who had been most significant to them. The island stuff was all real.
Hmmmm, what else? The numbers were just the candidates. Polar bears were Dharma experiments. Women couldn’t have babies if they were conceived on the island because Jacob made a rule about it. He had mother issues because of his relationship with his own mother. Am I missing anything?
[quote comment="375491"][quote comment="375490"][quote comment="375488"][/quote]
_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.[/quote]
Seems to me you are stuck in your own timeframe. That entire group you just mentioned are connected to Widmore in some fashion, and came to the island independantly. The show isn’t about the ‘extras’, it’s about the Oceanic 815′ers. These characters all had flaws/gifts that the Oceanic 815′ers needed to know/have in order to make the connection to their constants/partners. Widmore made the introductions. Those people you mentioned were not dead all along…but must have died in FSW along the way.
How does that sound to you?[/quote]
_______________________________________
That sounds like incoherent gibberish. Try again.[/quote]
That’s okay. I’m perfectly content in the explaination. I hope you find peace somewhere.[/quote]
________________________
There as soooooo many things proving they were alive on the island and dead in the FSW. I will give two obvious examples.
1. Christian told Jack everyone was real and they all died at DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT, ETC…. times!!!!!!!!
2. Locke told Jack he didn’t have a son in the FSW.
Enough said…..
Some answers:
[quote comment="375546"]
- Who made the statue on top of Jacob’s house? (I know it doesn’t matter, but I wanna know!)
[/quote]
Being that it’s an Eqyptian goddess, and there’s other evidence of an Egyptian presence on the island, I think it’s safe to say the Egyptians built it.
___________________________
[quote comment="375546"]
- What is Smokey’s name?
[/quote]
We were never told. Does it really matter?
_________________________
[quote comment="375546"]
- WTF was Eliose Hawkins talking to Desmond about at the concert? I guess she knew they were all dead? So, what was her point? Why does she care? Writer head-fake?
[/quote]
Yes she knew they were all dead. At the concert she was saying she didn’t want Desmond to take Daniel with him to the church and then to the afterlife with the other Losties. Maybe she wasn’t allowed to move on to the afterlife herself, and she wanted to still have Daniel with her.
________________________
[quote comment="375546"]
- So, once ‘enlightened/compliant’ Desmond walked out of the electromagnetic machine, he knew everything would be OK because one day everyone would eventually die anyway and come together again in total happiness? Huh?
[/quote]
Apparently that’s the case.
_______________________
[quote comment="375546"]
- Did the plane at the end make it to safety? Or, was that the plane wreckage shown at the very end from that plane? D’oh!
[/quote]
I think we’re meant to assume the plane does make it to safety, otherwise, why go through all of that nonsense, and why show Jack seeing the plane and smiling just before dying? The wreckage from the end was not that plane. I think it was just stock footage of the original sets used in season 1, kind of to show us how far the show has come.
_______________________
[quote comment="375546"]
- If the plane did make it, does that mean Richard is still immortal? He wasn’t at the church at the end, so I guess so. Spin-off?
[/quote]
Regardless of what happens to the plane, Richard is no longer immortal. That was the point of Miles seeing Richard’s gray hair, to tell us that somehow Jacob’s/the island’s magic has worn off, Richard will resume aging like a normal person. Plenty of important characters weren’t at the church so you can’t determine Richard’s fate from that scene. D&C have emphatically said they will not create or condone any sort of spin-off or other continuation of this story.
Dude – what the #$%& just happened? Was Ana Lucia dead?
[quote comment="375537"]why can’t people just let us complain?!?!
i’m glad everyone who enjoyed the ending did so, but for myself and others, i saw great stories unfold from season 1 – 5, with many mysteries/plots that captivated me from week to week, but the ending was just dull. it seemed like, okay, let’s create a happy ending in tribute to all the fans of the show, that’s what they would want. or some crap like that.
instead, it left me thinking that many parts of the show had no meaning, no reason (to the way it ended). true, the characters made the show interesting, but so did the magical and mysterious island and what happened on it…..to have the show end off of it, was just a bit disappointing.[/quote]
No kidding…bravo my man! For those who were happy with all the loose ends…good for you. Sincerely!! You are a lot better fans than I am. I’m not that easy. I was like “F&%k this”…
I am surprised by the amount of people unsatisfied with the finale. I can assure you only smart people fully understand it. So if you don’t like/get the ending you must be fairly stupid. Go back to your mundane (look it up) sitcoms and boring cubicle lives. Stop infesting this blog with your stupidity.
I dont think that the whole FSW is when you die… I think just the church is. Going into the church in the FSW is passing on… hence Ben doesn’t go in, because he KNOWS that he must pay for what he did some more (maybe still on the island for another thousand years, or forever…)
Richard served his time, he was no longer held to the island, he could freely leave and live out whatever was left of his life (I wonder if the six that left in the plane went back to REAL time, or flashsideways time?)
Anyway, I think things wrapped around rather nicely, because as we have witnessed on the show, the island is sort of all encompassing energy… it allows you to teeter between life and death and rebirth, and good and bad. Not everything that you thought was true was true, you have to LEARN it during your time on the island, and while some may NEVER learn, those who do will find themselves together in “THE END…” and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
[quote comment="375498"]To say there wasn’t an ending to the series is ridiculous. It just wasn’t the ending you decided it should be, which shouldn’t surprise anyone. I was hoping the FSW was the real ending to their life, but I’m not disappointed. Before the finale, some people thought that the island was hell or made up. This ending was better than that. I think too many people here wanted all the answers or some crazy farfetched ending because there were so many unique stories to Lost. But, if it was a farfetched ending, then a lot of people would be complaining “that would never happen”. Look at all the people who up until the finale didn’t believe Smokie was the MIB. They thought they were different people/entities and even though it was obvious, many couldn’t believe that it was that straightforward. But in yesterday’s special, the producers stated that MIB could take the form of his previous life, Christian or the smoke.
I think the entire series was fabulous. Yes, we didn’t learn all the secrets to the island, but I don’t care. In the end, I just wanted to know if and how they got off the island. We know several people got off the island, several stayed, and the others died. We know the island really existed. It would have been great to have a couple more seasons to explain all the oddities about the island, but if the show was really about the characters then it doesn’t matter.[/quote]
I agree, as the saying goes “always leave them wanting more”
[quote comment="375566"]I am surprised by the amount of people unsatisfied with the finale. I can assure you only smart people fully understand it. So if you don’t like/get the ending you must be fairly stupid. Go back to your mundane (look it up) sitcoms and boring cubicle lives. Stop infesting this blog with your stupidity.[/quote]
____________________________________
Wow, good thing I’m smart and understand it….tell us how you really feel, would you??
[quote comment="375505"][quote comment="375499"][quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.[/quote]
What show were you watching?[/quote]
LOL – that is what I was thinking.
[quote comment="375567"]I dont think that the whole FSW is when you die… I think just the church is. Going into the church in the FSW is passing on… hence Ben doesn’t go in, because he KNOWS that he must pay for what he did some more (maybe still on the island for another thousand years, or forever…)
Richard served his time, he was no longer held to the island, he could freely leave and live out whatever was left of his life (I wonder if the six that left in the plane went back to REAL time, or flashsideways time?)
Anyway, I think things wrapped around rather nicely, because as we have witnessed on the show, the island is sort of all encompassing energy… it allows you to teeter between life and death and rebirth, and good and bad. Not everything that you thought was true was true, you have to LEARN it during your time on the island, and while some may NEVER learn, those who do will find themselves together in “THE END…” and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.[/quote]
___________________________________
Nice Beatles lyric at the end….look out for copyright laws though…LOL
[quote comment="375565"][quote comment="375537"]why can’t people just let us complain?!?!
i’m glad everyone who enjoyed the ending did so, but for myself and others, i saw great stories unfold from season 1 – 5, with many mysteries/plots that captivated me from week to week, but the ending was just dull. it seemed like, okay, let’s create a happy ending in tribute to all the fans of the show, that’s what they would want. or some crap like that.
instead, it left me thinking that many parts of the show had no meaning, no reason (to the way it ended). true, the characters made the show interesting, but so did the magical and mysterious island and what happened on it…..to have the show end off of it, was just a bit disappointing.[/quote]
No kidding…bravo my man! For those who were happy with all the loose ends…good for you. Sincerely!! You are a lot better fans than I am. I’m not that easy. I was like “F&%k this”…[/quote]
I’m not so easy either. I fall into the complainer’s camp, but I’ve been thinking about the show now that it’s over.
The big twist at the end was the story-telling mechanism of the flash sideways turning out to be something more than what we thought. This is what the producers were shooting for all along.
The production was so grandiose with it’s beautiful cinematography, majestic soundtrack, and top-notch actors that appealed to viewers around the world, we — the loyal viewers — made the assumption that all the details of the magical island actually mattered. How could they not?
The show was indeed one LONG CON! Get it? We were duped. It was diversionary tactic six years in the making. The writers and the very talented people giving the show it’s overall direction figured they would have TIME to flesh it all out.
But in “The End” they realized, like Jack, it was “time to let go.”
At one point in the series, the producers embedded a warning intended just for viewers like us:
“Only fools are enslaved by time and space.”
[quote comment="375563"]Some answers:
_______________________
[quote comment="375546"]
- If the plane did make it, does that mean Richard is still immortal? He wasn’t at the church at the end, so I guess so. Spin-off?
[/quote]
Regardless of what happens to the plane, Richard is no longer immortal. That was the point of Miles seeing Richard’s gray hair, to tell us that somehow Jacob’s/the island’s magic has worn off, Richard will resume aging like a normal person. Plenty of important characters weren’t at the church so you can’t determine Richard’s fate from that scene. D&C have emphatically said they will not create or condone any sort of spin-off or other continuation of this story.[/quote]
I know D&C said this was a self-contained story and there wouldn’t be a movie or anything like that, but when did they say they wouldn’t condone it? Don’t remember that but although I try to see everything they say…they do say a lot.
I thought they left a lot of room in the story for spin-offs including.
What happens to Richard post Island
What happens to Kate post Island
What happens to Sawyer post Island
What happens to Claire/Aaron post Island
What happens to Hurley/Ben ON island
As far as Walt is concerned, I like to think of it sort of tying into the Man In Black being born (bear with me…) When Michael finally dies on the island, he becomes a whisperer… whisperers never move on, they really never move at all, they are polarized into one specific frame of the island. The reason we never see Michael or Walt in the FSW, is because neither of them ever exist in the FSW. Michael is forever stuck on the island (unlike the clever Ben who probably should have been but figured out a way off…) and therefore Walt is never born…. This also ties into why Walt was special… he was a product of the smoke… sort of like how in one world the Man In Black was never born, and in another one he was but his mother could not accept it…. or how Lockes mom could not accept him… or how in one world Jacks son was never born or how in another he was…
[quote comment="375573"][quote comment="375563"]Some answers:
I know D&C said this was a self-contained story and there wouldn’t be a movie or anything like that, but when did they say they wouldn’t condone it? Don’t remember that but although I try to see everything they say…they do say a lot.
I thought they left a lot of room in the story for spin-offs including.
What happens to Richard post Island
What happens to Kate post Island
What happens to Sawyer post Island
What happens to Claire/Aaron post Island
What happens to Hurley/Ben ON island[/quote]
I said this about 400 posts ago… maybe just an ABC special… like how Columbo would come around every year or two with a new movie of the week for years after the show went off the air (Columbo rules!… I think the last one was in 2002 “Columbo Likes The Nightlife”) Not only the future events of the island, but also the past… I definately dont believe, especially at this point, that theres no where else for the story to go. I see endless possibilities.
so, i hereby retract all my negative comments about the finale that I posted yesterday. I watched it again last night and now I think that it was the most appropriate ending for the show.
I really enjoyed it the second time around. It was no longer about what I expected (as was the case for the first viewing), but how I could make sense of what I watched.
This finale creeped me out, for reasons I’ll go into shortly.
WHAT HAPPENED?
The island gets what the island wants. In this instance, somebody to go down to its magnetic core and vent excess electromagnetism. This has to be done periodically (remember all those skeletons) usually by some willing dupe to whom the island is basically God.* This is like turning a computer on and off again when it starts to malfunction.
So the island shuts itself down. What does this actually mean?
(1) The island exists in real-time, not some electromagnetic bubble. Real time being the early cretaceous era. You can leave it, just watch out for dinosaurs.
(2) The magnetic field which keeps it bouyant via magnetic repulsion ceases to exist. It really will sink.
(1) No special protection for tribe leaders. Poor old Jack may think he’s tribe leader, the next Jacob, etc etc, but the island was protecting the only living tribe leader who mattered – Flocke – who was promptly divested of that protection while the island was ‘off’.
THE SIDEWAYS WORLD.
Remember that apollo bar? Sure you have to turn the machine on and off again, but eventually you get your just reward. Thus, anybody who died in service of the island – and whose bodies are on the island – was resurrected in a virtual reality specifically created for them by the island. Not for ever, mind. Just long enough to resolve their issues. The island’s generosity only extends so far! Hence a couple of notable absences in that church – Lapidus, Myles and Richard for example, who got off the island in one piece. The writers are giving us a goofy ending and laughing up their sleeves at the same time. Nice.
*In fact, if you were to substitute “God’ for every time a character in this series said ‘the island’, you might gain some valuable insights into what this series is all about.
[quote comment="375183"]Posts 116 and 162 fit with how I interpret the ending. I think people are too caught up in an actual timeline of the afterlife. I don’t think the afterlife has a timeline. I think that all of people died at various point in “real”time and in the afterlife, they led a FSW life. One by one, when they connected with each other in the afterlife, they “remembered” the person from their mortal life. And they were happy. That person and those memories were happy. The Aljira plane taking off over Jack leads us to believe those on that plane continued to lead a long mortal life, but when reconnected in the afterlife with one another, those people and times made the most impact, which is why they are the most important. Season 6 is all about their afterlife.[/quote]
I definitely agree with you. I think Christian also helps prove your theory when he tells Jack that some of them died before you, and some died long after you. He also states something about TIME not being relevant HERE, meaning the FSW.
I too believe the FSW was a dreamy explanation of purgatory. I liked Matthew Fox’s explanation of the segment of your afterlife lasting anywhere from a nanosecond to a long period of time.
I think the island happened, and I think everything about the mysteries of the island happened. I think Jack died when he closed his eye. I think the ones we watched die over the seasons, died exactly how we saw.
And I believe that the island did NOT sink, and Hurley and Ben went on to care and protect the island. I believe Ben did not join them in the church because, as he said, he had things to still take care of. I think he knows he still needs to redeem himself more. I think some evidence of this shows when Locke says that ‘if it helps’ he forgives Ben.
There may be debate about whether the Aljira flight made it off the island. But I do think they made it home because Kate said how much she ‘missed’ Jack. I’d like to believe she was like Rose from Titanic, meeting up with her true love finally after a long life without him.
I would NOT have been happy if everyone was in the church. I believe some of them did not connect as much with the others in the church and may have other souls they prefer to be connected with in the afterlife.
I think the island was a magical/spiritual/religious place, depending on your personal beliefs. But I believe the island went on to exist, and perhaps the island and the Losties’ experiences there enabled them to easily find the souls they most desired to spend eternity with.
[quote comment="375521"][quote comment="375471"][quote comment="375466"]
I don’t believe in Purgatory, no offense to anyone that does. I believe in the afterlife (Heaven and Hell) but the FSW WAS NOT PURGATORY. Purgatory is supposed to be a place of temporary punishment or paying for your sins after death. The characters were not being punished. We saw our LOSTIES grow into better people and change their lives due to their experiences on the island.[/quote]
I agree it was not THE PURGATORY, but I think it was LIKE purgatory.
BTW, temporal punishment…not necessarily temporary punishment.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm/quote
I purposely wrote temporary because the meaning is the same and I’m sure some people don’t know or care to look up the meaning of temporal. Usually we are on the same wavelength but this can’t be any kind of Purgatory since there is no punishment involved.[/quote]
I chose the temporal part to be the same…not the punishment part. As is with most LOST religious ‘similarities’, it is not exactly anything.
[quote comment="375573"][quote comment="375563"]Some answers:
_______________________
[quote comment="375546"]
-
What happens to Richard post Island
What happens to Kate post Island
What happens to Sawyer post Island
What happens to Claire/Aaron post Island
What happens to Hurley/Ben ON island[/quote]
I happen to be one of those people who wants every little detail. HOWEVER, this time I can honestly say I would NOT want to see those people’s post-island life. I think it is enough to imagine it.
I’d like to think Kate DOES help Claire become a good mother, and simultaneously remains in Aaron’s life. I’d like to think that Richared finally gets a normal shot at life. I would also like to think that Sawyer learned so much on the island that he goes home to his daughter and loves her the way he wants to. And I’d like to think that Hurley/Ben go on to form a zaney friendship/partnership while caring for the island. Ben himself says that maybe there is a better way to run things, and I’d like to think there is. But despite my typical desire to know every detail, knowing all those details would ruin it for me.
[quote comment="375570"][quote comment="375505"][quote comment="375499"][quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.[/quote]
What show were you watching?[/quote]
LOL – that is what I was thinking.[/quote]
Actualy, in season 1 Desmond was already on the island when 815 crashed. He did not punch in the numbers in time which made the plane crash. The 815 flight this season was the FSW flight. In season 1, it was Rose who was afraid to fly and Jack tried to comfort her. In this season it was Jack who was afraid to fly and Rose told him “its ok, you can let go now”. This proves that the FSW was not real. Rose and Bernard clearly understood what was happening before everyone else. Maybe because their love was already there. They didnt have to search for it. Desmond was not on the original 815 flight. He was on the FSW 815 flight because he along w/ the rest developed a relationship while on the island. And it was his job to reconnect/awaken everyone.
In this seasons FSW, Jin could not speak english. He then saw Juliet and the sonogram of his baby, saw a vision and immediately began speaking english. That should be a clear example that they were not dead the whole time and that the FSW was not real.
To those who say they feel sorry for the people who “didn’t get”the finale and that you will explain it to us please don’t. We get it. I get that the island was nothing more than a cheap vehicle for character development. I also get that w/o the island mythology this show is nothing more than a cheap soap opera. If you liked the way everything wrapped up then good for you. Just don’t talk down to us that hated it.
in season 4, you have the Flash Fowards… “Something Nice Back Home” I always thought that it was almost something similar to what they show now. A projection of the perfect life… only in those instances it starts off nice, but ends in some sort of nightmarish mess. Perhaps the flashfowards were all something like that. The island asking them to let go—sort of letting go—but fighting it…
[quote comment="375582"]To those who say they feel sorry for the people who “didn’t get”the finale and that you will explain it to us please don’t. We get it. I get that the island was nothing more than a cheap vehicle for character development. I also get that w/o the island mythology this show is nothing more than a cheap soap opera. If you liked the way everything wrapped up then good for you. Just don’t talk down to us that hated it.[/quote]
Second that, it was a very weak cop-out at best and I’ll go further to suggest that the writers had no clue how they’ll end the show beyond the whole Jack’s eye’s closing!! I’m tempted to compile a list of how many gaps and unexplained holes exist in that thing. Me thinks there could be a hundred.
The joke is on all of us D&C and ABC made out like bandits. They fed the fan base dribble about this having some sort of explanation, even the most far fetched plot lines can be intelligently explained. The whole 6th season was a joke. They figured that the FSW was the shock-and-awe factor when in reality it was leading to nowhere.
Complete failure on the writers part but the joke is on us, the fans that were hoping for anything remotely intelligent!
[quote comment="375582"]To those who say they feel sorry for the people who “didn’t get”the finale and that you will explain it to us please don’t. We get it. I get that the island was nothing more than a cheap vehicle for character development. I also get that w/o the island mythology this show is nothing more than a cheap soap opera. If you liked the way everything wrapped up then good for you. Just don’t talk down to us that hated it.[/quote]
I kinda agree. I personally liked the ending but I can see where certain people are coming from. I guess the thing that stands out is the bashing of the writers. Thats the part I dont get. You cant belittle the writers because you dont get it. I’m sure the ending is what they wanted. They pay attention to the blog sites and they said that there would be some very harsh critiscm about the ending before it aired. They’ve also said that everyone should stop trying so hard to figure the show out and just enjoy it a little more. And yes if you are one of those people who researched every book a character was seen reading or every song that you heard playing, or researched mythology and polar bears and energy, etc… than you are probably disappointed. But clearly the writers utlimately had something else in mind. People took their own personal theories over the past 6 seasons and ran w/ them and then when the show didnt fit one of those theories, people got upset. To me the name of the show says it all. LOST clearly meant less of that they were lost on an island, but rather they were lost souls or lost in their personal lives. This is no different than the Sopranos ending. A lot of people hated it because they wanted to know if the guy at the bar killed them or what. But in retrospect wasn’t it better to use your imagination? I get the fact that some people need closure, but just like real life you have to find that for yourself. All of the answers are never given. Just my 2cents.
[quote comment="375572"]
The production was so grandiose with it’s beautiful cinematography, majestic soundtrack, and top-notch actors that appealed to viewers around the world, “[/quote]
Yes, good cinematography—but soundtrack?
Come on, it sounded like someone was leaning on the Synth Keyboard with their elbow…with that one note drilling a hole in my head. It was also the worst sort of manipulation with those swirling strings at the heartfelt moments demanding that the emotion swell up in me…and I truly resent being told what I’m supposed to feel…and they did it over and over and over.
It was brainwashing and it works on the masses, which is why it’s done.
I kept putting my hands up in the air doing a fake violin whenever the sugary strings started to come in…which was way too often. It was pure cheese.
The use of Vintage Pop music in previous episodes was very good but that was sorely lacking in the finale.
And the Driveshaft music;
That was sort of Smooth Rock drivel—music that won’t really upset anyone too much. Sorry but I like my Rock with some kick. For me grafted on Neo-Classical piano usually sounds contrived in Rock/Pop.
You want to hear some great use of soundtrack?
Try; FARGO by the Coen Brothers
and
The Sweet Hereafter by Atom Egoyan
I guess network viewers are also starting to demand more after many seeing incredible HBO series.
I’m trying to be fair; I know a lot of people on LOST must have worked their asses off to make it as good as it was but there were also some people selling the show out IMO at the end. I don’t do weepy sentiment very well.
Eh, even Deadwood and The Sopranos sort of petered out in the end, so who’s perfect? Not me.
There were some incredible actors on the show;
the show had a pretty high level of consistency there. But there were a few I got pretty tired of.
Hugo for one; he’s a comedian as well..and there really should have exploited that side of him more because he’s (the real person) is very funny. I didn’t like that they had him as a scared rabbit and Mama’s boy so much of the time.
Having the muti-ethnic cast was a real high point.
I take my hat off to whoever did the casting; it must have been a nightmare to schedule all those actors time and arrange scripts, hotels, Transport….stuff we don’t really see.
But the last few days I HAVE been adding up all the unexplained questions; it’s not that I need them ALL answered…it’s just that there were too many…WAY too many. Just sayin’.
Some great comment here BTW. I’m enjoying reading them.
IMO, the Sopranos finale SUCKED…and I really liked Sopranos, but they had the most pointless final episode ever. but I liked the LOST finale a lot. The whole point of the show is to twist your brain… I’ll say, I always liked to look at the show as just a bunch of seperate stories, and the island was just the backdrop. I never really bought into the whole thing coming together perfectly at the end… all though it was fun to try and figure out how it could on this blog. I guess I’m just a tripper… I want the trip to just keep going and going, and never end, and to me thats what the show always felt like… but at the end, they leave you with one final peaceful L O S T screen. It’s over. I drank your milkshake.
someone, anyone…i know it’s alittle late, but it just hit me…was Kate’s story in the alternate reality the only one that didn’t change? She was still a fugitive for killing her step-dad. Everyone else’s changed in some way, right? (ex:Hurley bad luck to good luck)
[quote comment="375590"]someone, anyone…i know it’s alittle late, but it just hit me…was Kate’s story in the alternate reality the only one that didn’t change? She was still a fugitive for killing her step-dad. Everyone else’s changed in some way, right? (ex:Hurley bad luck to good luck)[/quote]
I think in the fsw she was innocent
[quote comment="375499"][quote comment="375486"]
Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., were never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along?
[/quote]
Actually, they did show that Desmond was on 815. They showed it this season. They just didn’t show it in season one. He was in the nose section. Lapidus may have been there too, as the pilot we did not see.[/quote]
Desmond was on the plane in the FSW. He was not on the plane in S1 because he was already in the hatch pushing the button. He came to the island on the sailboat.
FYI:
Doc Jensen posted on twitter “The plane wreckage over Lost credits: not part of the story, say reliable sources. Meant to evoke mood. No Ajira crash, no time loops.”
V Guide is reporting that there will be as much as 20 minutes of additional footage on the upcoming Season 6 DVD release, due Aug. 24 on DVD and Blu-ray.
“It’s in production now,” a source told the site. “Damon [Lindelof] and Carlton [Cuse] wanted to offer fans answers to additional questions they couldn’t get to in the body of the final show.”
But that’s not all fans have to look forward to. In an interview with IGN last week, Cuse said that some of the questions left unanswered after the finale will be addressed in a bonus feature “in an entertaining way.”
Said to be attached to the upcoming DVD and Blu-Ray release of the complete series is an additional 20 or so minutes of content that didn’t make it into the series finale. This will allegedly give us answers to questions about the light in the tunnel, as well as finally give us the name of the Man in Black.
Be sure to keep your eyes out for marketing, as Lost: The Complete Collection comes out on DVD and Blu-Ray on August 25th.
[quote comment="375544"][quote comment="375484"]The FSW they introduced this series was to throw us off of the real questions, that they never answered. Everybody is preocupied trying to figure out what the FSW means and the actual questions as were mentioned before never got answered.[/quote]
I disagree. We allowed ourselves to believe and assumed the FSW was what would have happened if the plane never crashed. The writers didn’t deceive us. It was clever writing. What specific unanswered questions are you referring to?[/quote]
True, kind of like the answer was hiding in plain site. I believe most of the important stuff was answered. Things like the whole Walt subject etc, I think can be answered with island logic for lack of a better term. For example Jacob thought Walt would be a possibility but he just didn’t work out the way he hoped (he grew too fast people!) and so on.
Now that things have settled down a bit, I wanted to ask (Hopefully it hasn’t been discussed because I didn’t see it)…What are the thoughts of what took place when Desmond first mentally time-traveled in I guess it was “Flashes before your eyes”…Was that just a precursor setting up the rules of mental time-travel or was that actually him flashing into the sideways universe where Eloise was even back then just preventing him from finding out the truth because she wanted to protect her afterlife with Daniel?
I’m hoping so, although I do believe the actual episode involving Dez meeting Daniel at the university had to be real since the island time was always real and he had notes in his book to back-up meeting Dez…Jesus this show…
I definitely think it takes a certain level of maturity to fully understand and appreciate the finale. I for one am completely satisfied with the way things wrapped up, that may be because I am not a 5 year old asking a million and one questions and demanding answers for these questions. I understand that there are certain things I am not supposed to know, i.e. the meaning of life, what happens after death, is there intelligent life in outer space, what happened to Atlantis, etc. LOST should be no different. I believe a certain aspect of LOST is to be applied to real life scenarios, the free will to do good or bad, the relationship with ones loved ones, etc with that being said, I think it would have been more of a cop-out to answer all these lingering questions in one sitting…if they did that what would we be talking about right now? there is no room for interpretation if D&C takes each one of you by the hand and says “this is why that happened, this is why he/she died, this is who built this that and the third”….seriously people, if that did happen the complainers would still find something to complain about…”I didnt like their answer for this…I dont like how they handled that”…etc. Nobody forced you to watch this show all these years and no one trained anyone on how to watch it…these things you all thought of yourselves or maybe with the help of some other bloggers who shared the same train of thought as you, but in the end it is still YOUR train of thought…I have never heard any of the producers or writers chastise someone because they are “watching the show wrong”. The writers of the show gave us the best possible ending in their eyes, not yours, to say you all have lost the last 6 years of your lives because you dont agree with how it all ends is just a damn shame.
[quote comment="375486"][quote comment="375485"][quote comment="375483"][quote comment="375481"]Saw this on another site, so I cut & paste it. I believe it’s a perfect summary.
I believe that everyone died in the plane crash. Christian said it himself, time was irrellevent. Everyone died in the crash. The island was created for the “flawed” people to find some closure to prepare for the afterlife. They were alone and needed to show that they are ready to move on. The flash-sideways was created as a final way for those stuck in purgatory (the island) to move on. The island and the flash sideways were connected. What happened on the island was the internal struggle to be good and for the characters to “let go” so that in the flash sideways they may move on (scene in the church). Jack was the last to “let go” on the island (he died, the people escaped and he saved the island) thus allowing him in the sideways to move on to the light. As the characters “let go” they realized they were dead in the flash sideways. I feel as though The Man in Black was stuck on the island never proving that he was ready to leave. He became bitter and wanted to kill the person guiding him (jacob) along to the light. Jacob’s time was done and hurley inherited the guide position. Ultimately, the people needed each other to move on. Hence the names on the wall. The lost characters needed everyone “realized” to move to the light. So it was the job of the guide (jacob) to help them realize it. I will give jack as an example of this thoery. He needed to save the island. He saved the island and once that happened he died and realized that he was ready to move on. Hurley realized he was going to become the new guide. Every character had a goal on the island so once those were completed they were able to realized they were ready to move on. They made the connections and/or fixed relationships in death that they never could in life and then moved to a better place. To explain the people like penny and others who were not on the plane, was that time like christian said was irrellevent. Penny could have lived to be 100 and then died and when they finally realized they were dead, was transported back to the church to be with desmond. Making the connection with loved ones before moving on.
in short, everyone needs to resolve something in death that wasn’t resolved in life. After that is resolved, then you are able to move on. Each path is different but in the end its the connections we made, or not made that help/hinder us. We are all connected and looking for closure. And thats the end…great ending…[/quote]
What site did you find that on?[/quote]
My local paper, http://www.sun-sentinel.com. Was asking for comments, read that one. IMO, it seemed to sum it up perfectly.[/quote]
_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.[/quote]
how’s about they were dead before they ever arrived to the island? If the island is a pergatory, only those passing on can be there. The plane was just the vessel taking them there like the boat over the river styx. So if we’re hoping for sequels, maybe the stories of how they actually departed from the earthworld we call ‘real’
[quote comment="375493"]I think the ending was amazing! The island was the real time and the sideways world was also ‘real’ to the characters since their consciousness allowed them to create it as they wanted which is brilliant in my mind bc I do believe we are able to create our version of reality after we leave the body and enter the spirit world. They just didnt know they were creating it.
All of the lost characters in the sideways world participated with one another at the soul level which is why things were pretty picture perfect for those who chose it that way in the sideways world. I think the island allowed the LOST characters to create their world as they saw fit and most of them chose fear. Perhaps they chose fear bc of how things were in their living life before they died and since they did not know how much power they had in creating their lives their time on the island was a bunch of suffering. Once they realized they could create their lives by their thoughts,they then created the sideways world. I think they all didnt realize they were dead until they ‘remembered’ the island. I think we saw it all from Jack’s point of view which is why everyone at the church was waiting for him… I think since there is no actual ‘time’ but NOW in the afterlife and so, that is why everyone was at the church together…even though they may have died at different earth times… Christian did say they all died sooner or later. I also think that their soul was ‘Lost’ until they were all ready to move on! Jacob and his bro were Lost longer than our LOST buddies and played by their ‘rules’ bc they were creating their own afterlife how they wanted to.
In my mind, our LOST characters that were in the church are from the same soul group that incarnate together in order to help each other along their spiritual path towards evolution. For that reason, the people that were not in the church may not be part of the main soul group but from other soul groups and just participated during the Lost character’s lives anyway but didnt need to really show up at church bc they are from a different soul group. Because of all of this, I think the ending was amazing![/quote]
PERFECT!
[quote comment="375598"]Now that things have settled down a bit, I wanted to ask (Hopefully it hasn’t been discussed because I didn’t see it)…What are the thoughts of what took place when Desmond first mentally time-traveled in I guess it was “Flashes before your eyes”…Was that just a precursor setting up the rules of mental time-travel or was that actually him flashing into the sideways universe where Eloise was even back then just preventing him from finding out the truth because she wanted to protect her afterlife with Daniel?
I’m hoping so, although I do believe the actual episode involving Dez meeting Daniel at the university had to be real since the island time was always real and he had notes in his book to back-up meeting Dez…Jesus this show…[/quote]
This was a brilliant set up by the writers. We were lead to believe that Des “flashing” into FSW was the same as him “flashing” in “The Constant.” But in season 6 it was not. Des was getting flashes of the FSW but did NOT know that was not an alternate reality, Des as he did in the constant thought the placed he “flashed” to was “real” in a real time traveling way (similar to the flashes in the constant). Thus his line to Jack that nothing they do (on island time) matters was a product of this. Des thought that when he pulled that crapp out of the shinny pool he would “flash” to “reality” (the FSW) BUT when he did pull it out and nothing happened he was “lost.”
This explains why Jack tells Des after Des tells him nothing they do here matters, that EVERYTHING they do in the island matters as in defeating fLocke is a very REAL and ESSENTIAL thing to do. Des like us was tricked into believing the FSW was “real” when only the island time was real and the FSW a way for them to meet before heading into “the light that never goes out”
[quote comment="375556"]“Jack, you don’t have a son. You don’t have a son, JACK!” That was my goose bump moment…my WTF is going on moment.
Share yours.[/quote]
When I heard that my first thought was “Oh sh*t, this is not an alternate time line” and the second was the dad not being in the coffin.
[quote comment="375518"][quote comment="375515"][quote comment="375102"]The ending is this. What happened on the island was REAL WORLD. Everyone who died on the island died in REAL WOLD…As for what the island was, they didn’t really explain it.[/quote]
Thank you, Lendorien. You’re apparently the only other person in the world who didn’t take a bathroom break during Christian Shepherd’s speech in the church. He really couldn’t have said it more plainly. The producers have also said it. The Island is not purgatory, and they didn’t die in the crash. They died at various other times, some on the Island, some after leaving it. THEN they all ended up in the sideways world.
There are lots of remaining questions, but the Island’s reality is not one of them.[/quote]
can I also say thank you? this is exactly how I feel[/quote]
Include me too. I feel like we have been beating a dead horse. They didn’t die in the plane crash and the island wasn’t Purgatory. It was the arena where some people changed their lives and were set free and others did not. Like Jacob said, “You needed the island as much as the island needed you.” The experiences on the island saved them and they saved the island which in turn saved mankind from destruction.
[quote comment="375496"]A theory about Walt and unanswered questions in general – maybe Walt is still special to the island. We don’t have answers about him now in the series finale and some people are disappointed, but perhaps he becomes relevant to the island again in the future. We only caught a glimpse of the island in a wacky, time-traveling 3 year sequence (right?)…or I guess 2000ish years technically, if you count Jacob/MIB/Mother time period. I am going to say Walt could go back to the island as an adult (out of curiosity perhaps, or destiny, or eloise, or hurley, who knows), hurley and ben will recognize him and dub him the new protector…it could happen
I personally think that is what is great about this finale…the cycle of the island continues, thanks to Jack for re-corking the wine bottle. We don’t need all the answers now because they won’t necesarily be revealed until later in island/real time, if ever. And since the show is over, we the viewers will never know but continue to theorize and contemplate…
I’m satisfied.[/quote]
concerning Walt/Aron being ‘special’ maybe we’re being too complex again… maybe they’re ‘special’ as everyone is special, simply for being a human being, they deserve good lives that will lead them to Heaven. Example: Clair must raise Aron herself, be a good parent to him, so he too, like Jack, doesn’t get stuck with parent issues that keep him trapped outside of Heaven…
[quote comment="375545"]Random answers/Theories:
1) Plane flying overhead when Jack is dying is the plan Lapidous is flying with Richard, Kate, etc.
2) Walt and Aron may still be special, like someone mentioned before, maybe they one day rule the island or are important during the time Hurley & Ben run things.
3) Everyone mentions the polar bears…. I always thought Darma was just testing time travel with larger mammals instead of rabbits (hence why Charlotte found a polar bear leash in the desert)
4)LOST was for entertainment, not everything is to be answered. It is an adventure and some things are meant to be unsolved and mysterious, especially with the best piece of television in history.[/quote]
Agree.
It definitely was the plane Lapidus was flying. That’s why Jack smiled. He was happy they made it off the island in time.
Walt and Aaron were special. I’m not exactly sure why Aaron was because we weren’t shown but we did see why Walt was.
The polar bears were brought there by the DI for their experiments. This was explained to us and the remains of the bear Charlotte found in Tunisia had a Dharma collar on. I’ve read a few posts saying Hurley or someone else was the polar bear. That has to be a joke, right?
[quote comment="375606"][quote comment="375545"]Random answers/Theories:
1) Plane flying overhead when Jack is dying is the plan Lapidous is flying with Richard, Kate, etc.
2) Walt and Aron may still be special, like someone mentioned before, maybe they one day rule the island or are important during the time Hurley & Ben run things.
3) Everyone mentions the polar bears…. I always thought Darma was just testing time travel with larger mammals instead of rabbits (hence why Charlotte found a polar bear leash in the desert)
4)LOST was for entertainment, not everything is to be answered. It is an adventure and some things are meant to be unsolved and mysterious, especially with the best piece of television in history.[/quote]
Agree.
It definitely was the plane Lapidus was flying. That’s why Jack smiled. He was happy they made it off the island in time.
Walt and Aaron were special. I’m not exactly sure why Aaron was because we weren’t shown but we did see why Walt was.
The polar bears were brought there by the DI for their experiments. This was explained to us and the remains of the bear Charlotte found in Tunisia had a Dharma collar on. I’ve read a few posts saying Hurley or someone else was the polar bear. That has to be a joke, right?[/quote]
That’s the beauty of lost. Its so complex but in the end the only thing that matters is what we did with our time on earth. How much did we love? How much did we do for others…
Stories, books, and movies can be written about the island’s properties, Ben and Hurley’s excellent adventure, walts importance etc… but at least for those of us who have followed this show since its inception we get emotional closure. No matter how bad our losties had it they end up together, no longer lost in their fears, in their loneliness.
[quote comment="375549"][quote comment="375417"]I don’t think its accurate to say certain characters aren’t there because they’re not dead yet. Everyone who could have possibly been in that church, WAS there. Time doesn’t exist in that world, you don’t wait around for people. Everyone was on the same time line in the FSW even though some died LONG before others (think Boone and Hurley). So I think it’s safe to say that if Walt could have been there, even if he died much later than any of the castaways, he would have been there just the same. Its just a question of how profound an effect that character had on the others’ lives. Walt and the other missing castaways probably had their own unique reunions, with other characters we’ve never met who affected their lives the most.
It even makes sense that Aaron wasn’t there, I mean Claire was his mother yes, but if you think about it, Jack was the only one who was reunited with a parent.[/quote]
I just watched the ending again. Baby Aaron was in the Church. Charlie was holding him and Shannon and Clair were looking at him. Perhaps they both died in childbirth…Who knows?? But he was there…….[/quote]
if clair etc died in the plane crash, so did fetus aaron
It’s clear to me by reading most of these posts that the producers need to have a question and answer session and televise it. Their audience would be huge! We all need answers even if we don’t want to admit it. Anybody else want to see something like this?
[quote comment="375599"]I definitely think it takes a certain level of maturity to fully understand and appreciate the finale. I for one am completely satisfied with the way things wrapped up, that may be because I am not a 5 year old asking a million and one questions and demanding answers for these questions. I understand that there are certain things I am not supposed to know, i.e. the meaning of life, what happens after death, is there intelligent life in outer space, what happened to Atlantis, etc. LOST should be no different. I believe a certain aspect of LOST is to be applied to real life scenarios, the free will to do good or bad, the relationship with ones loved ones, etc with that being said, I think it would have been more of a cop-out to answer all these lingering questions in one sitting…if they did that what would we be talking about right now? there is no room for interpretation if D&C takes each one of you by the hand and says “this is why that happened, this is why he/she died, this is who built this that and the third”….seriously people, if that did happen the complainers would still find something to complain about…”I didnt like their answer for this…I dont like how they handled that”…etc. Nobody forced you to watch this show all these years and no one trained anyone on how to watch it…these things you all thought of yourselves or maybe with the help of some other bloggers who shared the same train of thought as you, but in the end it is still YOUR train of thought…I have never heard any of the producers or writers chastise someone because they are “watching the show wrong”. The writers of the show gave us the best possible ending in their eyes, not yours, to say you all have lost the last 6 years of your lives because you dont agree with how it all ends is just a damn shame.[/quote]
***************
I would agree. They told us that they ended it on their terms and the way THEY wanted it to end.
I love that it still has us all thinking and discussing and wanting more. Bravo and this fan will be a bit lost without Lost but it was really like the ending…when you close your eyes…we have all the memories!
[quote comment="375573"]
I know D&C said this was a self-contained story and there wouldn’t be a movie or anything like that, but when did they say they wouldn’t condone it? Don’t remember that but although I try to see everything they say…they do say a lot.
[/quote]
When I said they wouldn’t condone it, maybe I was jumping to conclusions about what their thinking, based on what I’ve heard and read from them, which may be the same thing you heard or read. I believe in a podcast this year they said something along the lines that they are telling the story they want to tell and when the series ended they would be done telling their story. I could see ABC or Bad Robot trying to get as much as they can out of the Lost franchise, but I don’t see D&C approving a movie or spin-off series. (so I guess I’m assuming they wouldn’t condone it, and you know what happens when you assume….)
However, I’m certainly not saying I don’t want to see a sequel or prequel or whatever – I’d love to learn more about the island, its history, and the characters. But I’d prefer such a production come from the current writing/creative team, to minimize the chances of tarnishing these six seasons.
[quote comment="375598"]Now that things have settled down a bit, I wanted to ask (Hopefully it hasn’t been discussed because I didn’t see it)…What are the thoughts of what took place when Desmond first mentally time-traveled in I guess it was “Flashes before your eyes”…Was that just a precursor setting up the rules of mental time-travel or was that actually him flashing into the sideways universe where Eloise was even back then just preventing him from finding out the truth because she wanted to protect her afterlife with Daniel?
I’m hoping so, although I do believe the actual episode involving Dez meeting Daniel at the university had to be real since the island time was always real and he had notes in his book to back-up meeting Dez…Jesus this show…[/quote]
Its a dream! But a dream where you can CHANGE things… Think, Des mind flashes… it doesnt have to be one place or the other, it’s wherever your mind goes… Think that Desmond is having a dream everytime he goes back in time… BUT that dream is like a party line, anyone can be there… Eloise is there too. In a different flashback Charles Widmore was there. All the “flashes” are basically dreams but for Desmond they are also real. Charles and Eloise and probably some others know this, and are trying to channel it. Widmore knows that he only has so much time before “The Incident” in 1977 changes everything… so he brings Desmond back to the island, because he knows that Desmond is the one who is the most in tune with “the other side” and that he and Eloise will know to get in contact with him due to the journal… and this is how Widmore and Eloise stay alive Off the island… therefore even in the FSW, they are NOT dead.
“And in the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years.”
— Abraham Lincoln
[quote comment="375551"]By the way, I think Ben didn’t go in b/c of two possibilities:
1) He awakened to all the bad things he did in his real life on and off the island and needed to contemplate and reflect on his sins.
2) He wanted to spend some more time with Alex, even though the FSW isnt the real world, he wanted to just spend as much time as he could with the family life he probably always wanted…. much like Eloise who was scared Daniel was going with Desmond, she wanted to have her son with her as long as she could to hold on.
Just my opinion, probably no one will read this far down the blog, never seen this many comments since the first season![/quote]
I had a similar reaction about Ben. In the last episode he showed his lust for ruling the island again. When he found out Flocke was literally going to destroy the island his allegiance changed again. His love for the island or whatever you want to call it, caused him to choose to go down with the island. Whatever he experienced staying on the island with Hurley changed him. He told John he was truly sorry for all that he had done to him. He was an Other and he seemed to think he really didn’t belong at the reunion. I think he sat there contemplating all the evil he had done in his life and I’m sure he was thinking about or waiting for Alex.
[quote comment="375599"]I definitely think it takes a certain level of maturity to fully understand and appreciate the finale. I for one am completely satisfied with the way things wrapped up, that may be because I am not a 5 year old asking a million and one questions and demanding answers for these questions. I understand that there are certain things I am not supposed to know…[/quote]
You are blissfully ignorant and therefore you are more mature than others. Nice one that.
[quote comment="375587"][quote comment="375582"]To those who say they feel sorry for the people who “didn’t get”the finale and that you will explain it to us please don’t. We get it. I get that the island was nothing more than a cheap vehicle for character development. I also get that w/o the island mythology this show is nothing more than a cheap soap opera. If you liked the way everything wrapped up then good for you. Just don’t talk down to us that hated it.[/quote]
I kinda agree. I personally liked the ending but I can see where certain people are coming from. I guess the thing that stands out is the bashing of the writers. Thats the part I dont get. You cant belittle the writers because you dont get it. I’m sure the ending is what they wanted. They pay attention to the blog sites and they said that there would be some very harsh critiscm about the ending before it aired. They’ve also said that everyone should stop trying so hard to figure the show out and just enjoy it a little more. And yes if you are one of those people who researched every book a character was seen reading or every song that you heard playing, or researched mythology and polar bears and energy, etc… than you are probably disappointed. But clearly the writers utlimately had something else in mind. People took their own personal theories over the past 6 seasons and ran w/ them and then when the show didnt fit one of those theories, people got upset. To me the name of the show says it all. LOST clearly meant less of that they were lost on an island, but rather they were lost souls or lost in their personal lives. This is no different than the Sopranos ending. A lot of people hated it because they wanted to know if the guy at the bar killed them or what. But in retrospect wasn’t it better to use your imagination? I get the fact that some people need closure, but just like real life you have to find that for yourself. All of the answers are never given. Just my 2cents.[/quote]
That was scary, what you wrote is almost word for word what I tried to explain to my wife last night. You must be my FSW…or your bugging my home.
[quote comment="375614"][quote comment="375551"]By the way, I think Ben didn’t go in b/c of two possibilities:
1) He awakened to all the bad things he did in his real life on and off the island and needed to contemplate and reflect on his sins.
2) He wanted to spend some more time with Alex, even though the FSW isnt the real world, he wanted to just spend as much time as he could with the family life he probably always wanted…. much like Eloise who was scared Daniel was going with Desmond, she wanted to have her son with her as long as she could to hold on.
Just my opinion, probably no one will read this far down the blog, never seen this many comments since the first season![/quote]
I had a similar reaction about Ben. In the last episode he showed his lust for ruling the island again. When he found out Flocke was literally going to destroy the island his allegiance changed again. His love for the island or whatever you want to call it, caused him to choose to go down with the island. Whatever he experienced staying on the island with Hurley changed him. He told John he was truly sorry for all that he had done to him. He was an Other and he seemed to think he really didn’t belong at the reunion. I think he sat there contemplating all the evil he had done in his life and I’m sure he was thinking about or waiting for Alex.[/quote]
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I too think he needed more time to reflect and maybe he is waiting for Alex.
Ben so desperately needed to be loved. He never really had that. His mom died, and his dad resented him for her death.
He clung to the power and even though he could not get love I think he needed their respect.
He kidnapped Alex and he did love her, but she too grew to resent him.
In the end when he was awakened, it was Rousseau telling him that Alex loved him, and that he was as close to a father figure as she would ever have; I think he needed to cling to that and maybe he does need to wait for her awakening in order to be forgiven by her!
He was not ready to let go of her and how that makes him feel. I think that would be his final resolution. I love that John forgave him! One more step in letting go!
[quote comment="375592"][quote comment="375590"]someone, anyone…i know it’s alittle late, but it just hit me…was Kate’s story in the alternate reality the only one that didn’t change? She was still a fugitive for killing her step-dad. Everyone else’s changed in some way, right? (ex:Hurley bad luck to good luck)[/quote]
I think in the fsw she was innocent[/quote]
What do you mean? Someone else blew up the house?
After reading all these comments and watching the ending again a couple of times, and really listening to what Jack’s Dad said to him, I have come to this conclusion… I don’t think it matters one bit “what world was real”, because everything was real. The different things that happened throughout the show, probably were happening over many lifetimes or incarnations. Ever get the feeling of Deja Vu when you meet someone and get a strange feeling that you’ve met them before? These are all people who you probably met in another life. Does it matter what life? We probably all go through many lives before we reach redemption. That’s what Jack finally reached on the Island and now could move on.
Let’s really think about this…for those of you who don’t believe they were all dead after the crash, do you really believe that an island, such as this one, with Black Smoke, polar bears, etc. exists in this “real world”. All of the things Jack experienced on the island were real to him and very necessary to his salvation. But the Island was a place he went to after he died, maybe he was dead before the plane crash. All the other Lost characters on the island were also dead, but who knows when they died or reached salvation. The people in the church were necessary to Jack’s redemption, they could have been with him in different lifetimes. I think the Island was just showing us Jack’s salvation and how each of these people, regardless of when, helped him get here. I actually believe that even in the “flashbacks” before the Island they were probably all dead.
In the end is it really going to be important “what world was real and when they died”?
Any comments?
[quote comment="375576"]so, i hereby retract all my negative comments about the finale that I posted yesterday. I watched it again last night and now I think that it was the most appropriate ending for the show.
I really enjoyed it the second time around. It was no longer about what I expected (as was the case for the first viewing), but how I could make sense of what I watched.[/quote]
I think it’s good to watch it a second time. My reason is different than yours though. OK, I’m a softie. I teared up reading the messages people sent in which were cleverly added to scenes from the show. I cried at the flashbacks for each character. Not just because of the touching moments they were remembering but what they endured on the island. I cried when certain characters cried and of course I cried my eyes out when Jack died. Even though it seemed inevitable. I re-watched the following night. I wasn’t expecting that ending but then again I had no idea what to expect.
[quote comment="375618"][quote comment="375592"][quote comment="375590"]someone, anyone…i know it’s alittle late, but it just hit me…was Kate’s story in the alternate reality the only one that didn’t change? She was still a fugitive for killing her step-dad. Everyone else’s changed in some way, right? (ex:Hurley bad luck to good luck)[/quote]
I think in the fsw she was innocent[/quote]
What do you mean? Someone else blew up the house?[/quote]
It was never confirmed that Kate killed her step dad in the FSW, actually we never found out why she was on the run…We assume it was because she killed her Step Dad but we also assumed Sawyer was a conman before finding out he was a cop.
[quote comment="375615"][quote comment="375599"]I definitely think it takes a certain level of maturity to fully understand and appreciate the finale. I for one am completely satisfied with the way things wrapped up, that may be because I am not a 5 year old asking a million and one questions and demanding answers for these questions. I understand that there are certain things I am not supposed to know…[/quote]
You are blissfully ignorant and therefore you are more mature than others. Nice one that.[/quote]
I must be because I have no idea what that means LMAO
Everything in this show was abstract. As far as “what world is real”, I say this.. they all were real. The island was just a symbolic place to summarized how each of these people effected Jack’s life, over many lifetimes. The flash backwards, flash forwards, sideways, whatever, showed us what each of these people went through during their lifetimes and showed us how they evolved. Who cares about who died and when, the point of the ending was that many people effect us throughout our lifetimes.
Ever hear stories about what happens when we die? I’ve heard that the people important to us, will come help us move on. When my Dad was dying, he’d talked all the people he knew and was having visions of. Our closest friends and family, will all come to help us move on.
I have watched this show from day one onward. I continue to scratch my head at the attempts of viewers to inject “meaning” into the show. There are essentially three things that make a show appealing to a large audience: 1) Characters that they like, sympathize with, or identify with; 2) Action; 3) Mysteries that keep you coming back. In that regard, Lost was an amazing success. But don’t confuse the success of the show by the above criteria with any sense of meaning. There was no sub text or sub plot to be deciphered. The show had no meaning. There was no mystical, religious, or otherworld message to be decoded. The show didn’t go anywhere, as demonstrated by the final episode, which culminated in what was clearly an on camera cast party, and answered almost no questions. Dharma Initiative? Jacob? Time travel? All unanswered. Lost was a show that became so successful, the writers/producers essentially found themselves in a vehicle with a stuck accelerator pedal, and all they could do was try to stay on the road, more or less, until they ran out of gas. That’s it. They weren’t going anywhere. And if we were carried along, it was only because they understood the importance and power of the three mandates listed above, and not for any other reason.
So this is my take on it. We had the story of Oceanic 815 passengers. We saw (though not in chronological order)their backgrounds, their time on the island, (for some) their time off the island and then back on the island. They were a group of people that would have been unlikely friends if not brought together the way they were, but all were flawed, imperfect, lost. By being together, working together, they are became better people, they found meaning in their lives, they found each other- became each others’ constants. After they died, in a time where time does not exist, these constants were reunited, and together moved on.
That was the main story. Everything around it, the mysteries, questions, Jacob, MIB, etc… were just “supporting actors” to the story.
I guess my one preference would have been to just not have the whole fsw world. I don’t think it was really necessary. I would have been just as happy to see Jack die, meet Christian and get the speech, and then reunite with all his Lostie constants at the golf course on the island. But I guess that would have prevented all the (melo)dramatic recognitions from the finale.
[quote comment="375589"]IMO, the Sopranos finale SUCKED…and I really liked Sopranos, but they had the most pointless final episode ever. but I liked the LOST finale a lot. The whole point of the show is to twist your brain… I’ll say, I always liked to look at the show as just a bunch of seperate stories, and the island was just the backdrop. I never really bought into the whole thing coming together perfectly at the end… all though it was fun to try and figure out how it could on this blog. I guess I’m just a tripper… I want the trip to just keep going and going, and never end, and to me thats what the show always felt like… but at the end, they leave you with one final peaceful L O S T screen. It’s over. I drank your milkshake.[/quote]
That is funny to me. IMO the Sopranos finale was brilliant and mind-bending. Loved Lost until the last episode. IMO it was terrible. But hey to each his own. Just thought it was interesting that we are exactly opposite on the Lost v. Sopranos ending.
[quote comment="375612"][quote comment="375598"]Now that things have settled down a bit, I wanted to ask (Hopefully it hasn’t been discussed because I didn’t see it)…What are the thoughts of what took place when Desmond first mentally time-traveled in I guess it was “Flashes before your eyes”…Was that just a precursor setting up the rules of mental time-travel or was that actually him flashing into the sideways universe where Eloise was even back then just preventing him from finding out the truth because she wanted to protect her afterlife with Daniel?
I’m hoping so, although I do believe the actual episode involving Dez meeting Daniel at the university had to be real since the island time was always real and he had notes in his book to back-up meeting Dez…Jesus this show…[/quote]
Its a dream! But a dream where you can CHANGE things… Think, Des mind flashes… it doesnt have to be one place or the other, it’s wherever your mind goes… Think that Desmond is having a dream everytime he goes back in time… BUT that dream is like a party line, anyone can be there… Eloise is there too. In a different flashback Charles Widmore was there. All the “flashes” are basically dreams but for Desmond they are also real. Charles and Eloise and probably some others know this, and are trying to channel it. Widmore knows that he only has so much time before “The Incident” in 1977 changes everything… so he brings Desmond back to the island, because he knows that Desmond is the one who is the most in tune with “the other side” and that he and Eloise will know to get in contact with him due to the journal… and this is how Widmore and Eloise stay alive Off the island… therefore even in the FSW, they are NOT dead.[/quote]
==========================
I don’t think they were dreams (atleast not in this sense)…I said this earlier:
“Given the island’s power to transcend time you can be already dead in off-island reality yet your afterlife can already be taking place (Hence Desmond being able to commune with his dead self)…So the island is a place where you can connect to the otherside because of the “special Properties”…
You gotta kinda think that since the island is the mid-point of these realities, when exposed to these phenomenons you (mentally) can exhibit a commune with your otherself…The whispers get trapped on this place because the island shares a part of this “Dead-Reality”…Juliet detonating the bomb so close to the island’s power source in retrospect appears to have created a tear between the afterlife and current island time sentencing our Losties there…”
I really believe the island is a place between worlds (or dimensions, realities, earth-heaven) And when you expose yourself to that light via an “Incident” like what happen to Desmond during the fail-safe or Juliet during the nuking you can tear a little bit of that reality and coalesce with your afterlife self (based on the Finale)…
What I find most interesting is that island Desmond lived as FSW Desmond , but after the effects of the electromagnetism wore off it appears they no longer shared the same mind anymore (Because Des thought unplugging the light pool would send himback there and nothing else mattered)…So I’m trying to figure out if FSW Des couldn’t share minds with island Des anymore how is it that FSW Des KNOW he was trying to get the others to escape purgatory rather than just remember there old self…I think the answer is that once FSW Des was awaken he had to know he was dead, but Island Des only knew that another version of himself existed…So I don’t think it’s a dreamworld..I think that light-church world is directly related to the island being the portal between worlds…
[quote comment="375624"]I have watched this show from day one onward. I continue to scratch my head at the attempts of viewers to inject “meaning” into the show. There are essentially three things that make a show appealing to a large audience: 1) Characters that they like, sympathize with, or identify with; 2) Action; 3) Mysteries that keep you coming back. In that regard, Lost was an amazing success. But don’t confuse the success of the show by the above criteria with any sense of meaning. There was no sub text or sub plot to be deciphered. The show had no meaning. There was no mystical, religious, or otherworld message to be decoded. The show didn’t go anywhere, as demonstrated by the final episode, which culminated in what was clearly an on camera cast party, and answered almost no questions. Dharma Initiative? Jacob? Time travel? All unanswered. Lost was a show that became so successful, the writers/producers essentially found themselves in a vehicle with a stuck accelerator pedal, and all they could do was try to stay on the road, more or less, until they ran out of gas. That’s it. They weren’t going anywhere. And if we were carried along, it was only because they understood the importance and power of the three mandates listed above, and not for any other reason.[/quote]
I absolutely agree. There were a lot of plots going on, but no explanation was given. For example why Richard was not considered for a candidate? He was alone, broken, had no one else in the world. Just the same criteria that Jacob told Jack. Also if Jacob wanted them on the island why did he had to put them together in a plane crash, why simply didn’t order Ben to bring them the same way they brought Juliet. And if Jakob brought them to the island why did Ben’s people abused them in the beggining? Ben was following Jacob’s orders all the time. Was it Jacob who wanted to research why pregnat women were daying or Ben? When they recruited Juliet the people looked like big corporation’s employees…where all these people went? How did Jacob was leaving and coming back to the island? How did they get the submarine? Why was Jacob keeping around the whole Others group? To what purpose? How about Sayid? Did he realy die? What was Withmore mission? He spend a lot of money covering up the plane crush, hiring guns, sinking a ship, hiring scientists???
I think all the the final episode did was answer the new questions from the last season: what were the two realities and that’s it. It did not answer anything else. It basicaly went like that: on the end they were all dead.Disapointing.
I have this theory that makes me much happier with the ending than I was the other night. I was upset with the ending at first, and then I thought more and more.
I think that the island really happened. I think that everything except the FSW was ‘real’. I think the island has mystical properties and we got as much answers about that as we could ever get without the writers giving us a big religious story to back it. I believe Lost showed multiple religions, beliefs, and even factored in science for ‘non-believers’. Dharma was their way of acknowledging science, and we all know the ways they acknowledged Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Egyptian mythology, Greek mythology, etc.
I think the island’s mystical properties granted the Losties a chance to reflect and see themselves, and perhaps gave way to the FSW. Maybe in Lost, everyone gets a FSW…or maybe only those touched by the island. Regardless, I still think that those chosen were done so, so that they could meet. Jacob said they were all chosen because they were alone, the island gave them all someone to be with so they were not alone.
My theory, though, is that the FSW was a way for them to be their TRUE SELF. They all found their TRUE SELF with the island’s help, but the FSW was a way for them to actualize it and truly live as their TRUE SELF!
My examples are in the next post!
Locke – was less about fixing himself, and more about fixing others. Hence his attempt to help Ben become more empowered at the school. He was not as obsessed with his handicapped. It seems as though he still went on the walkabout, but didn’t seem so bitter about his legs. His TRUE SELF.
Daniel – was not obsessed with the science and mystery of the island. This was answered for him and he was able to focus on a new love of music. His TRUE SELF. (Daniel was not in church because Desmond told Daniel’s mother specifically ‘not with ME’ when she asked. Meaning he would ‘let go’ later with her or Charlotte or both.)
Sayid – did not chase Nadia, in fact everything he did was in attempts to do the ‘right’ thing. He clearly still thought he was unworthy in the FSW yet still strived to do the right thing. In fact his relationship with Nadia, and how it ended served him…getting him to see what he needed to do. His TRUE SELF.
Widmore – even he seemed different in the FSW. Sure, he was still a bit sketchy, but he seemed to care about his wife and children’s happiness. A far stretch from his mortal life when he disregarded Penny’s feelings for Dez, and didn’t seem so bothered by Daniel getting shot. He is not in the church because he and his family are still working things out both as a group, and within themselves. Getting closer to his TRUE SELF.
Claire – needed to claim her ‘motherhood’ on her own. She had no choice but to be Aaron’s mother in the island. She did CHOOSE to leave the island in the finale, but that may not have redeemed herself enough in her own heart. In the FSW she was able to CHOOSE to mother Aaron while still pregnant. Her TRUE SELF.
Frank Lapidus – he was not really a Lostie. He felt huge guilt about not flying Oceanic 815, even though he was scheduled to. He redeemed himself in his heart when he went to the island and brought passengers home…TWICE! He doesn’t connect or bond with any Losties, so no need for him to be in the FSW or in the church. He was a crazy loon after seeing 815 crash on TV, and was able to become his TRUE SELF by rectifying his guilt.
Villians – Sun’s dad and Kinney are just an example of this category. They are referred to, or even shown in the FSW…but still remain EVIL. This may simply be because that is their TRUE SELF. Therefore, they do not deserve or belong in the group at the church.
Kids – Kids were not shown in the FSW or in the church for several reasons. They did not bond with the other Losties, and they may have ‘let go’ with other loved ones. Walt went home and spent childhood with grandmother and probably went on to live a life and raise family. So there’s no need for him to be in the church with that specific group. Children are already their TRUE SELVES.
Those who died on island but were not in church – Anyone else not pictured in the church, it seems to me, were not as bonded with others the same way, or did not DESERVE to be there. Eko redeemed himself in his own heart while a priest, and had closure on the island. They are still exhibiting their TRUE SELF.
Kate – she was still on the run, but we don’t know why or even if she was guilty. I’d like to think she was guilty, for the same crime. But it may be one of those things that doesn’t make her evil. It’s not as though she killed an innocent man. Besides, she is different in the FSW. She shows trust now. She trusted Claire, and she even trusted Sawyer. She would’ve never shown that much trust for anyone in her mortal life (before the island). In fact, when living with Aaron and Jack she kept secrets, showing that she still didn’t trust people, especially Jack…contributing to their breakup. But, the island changed her, and in the FSW she is her TRUE SELF.
Sawyer – he also was similar to his mortal self, but showed slight differences. He was still upset by his parents’ deaths but this time, he confided and TRUSTED his partner. A big difference from his life before the island, like Kate, he trusted NO ONE! He used his street smarts for good in the FSW, but still showed his TRUE SELF including a bit of bad-boy.
Juliet – she was able to become more independent in the FSW. She had a failed marriage to Jack, but it was a vast difference from her failed marriage in her mortal life. In her mortal life, she loathed her ex husband, but in FSW she and Jack were on good terms. Juliet was a good person in her mortal life, but did become a bit shady when she joined the Others on the island. In her FSW, she was able to rectify that, AND actualize her TRUE SELF.
Jack – much like Juliet, he was similar in both his mortal life and FSW…he also had a bad divorce, and in FSW that was different. When Oceanic 6 returned home for 3 years, he became a drunk and ruined his life. FSW gave him a chance to rectify that, including giving him a ‘fake son’ so he could come to terms with screwing things up when he tried to raise Aaron. He was clingy and jealous when living with Kate and Aaron, so his lesson from island and FSW was about being independent and able to be self-secure. That was his TRUE SELF.
Jack and Juliet’s relationship – they had a pseudo-relationship on the island, and that was important that they also had a connection in FSW. This is because they were able to teach each other the lesson/quality they both lacked! They needed to be independent and able to be solo. Both were clingy and dependent, and both felt the need to fix everything. Their interactions on the island were always showcased as feeding each other strength, and in the FSW their divorce clearly left them stronger and on amicable terms. It made them their TRUE SELF in order to be with Sawyer and Kate.
Sawyer and Kate’s relationship – they had a pseudo-relationship on the island, and even seemed to have some sort of connection in the FSW. They also were able to teach each other the SAME lesson/quality they were missing – TRUST! Both had serious trust issues, but seemed to trust each other on the island more than they trusted anyone else. And, they even clearly trusted each other in FSW. Kate trusted that Sawyer wouldn’t rat her out when he saw the cuffs in elevator, and even asked him to let her go from the jail cell. Sawyer trusted her enough to not rat her out in the elevator, etc. They both needed trust in order to have their relationships with Juliet and Jack.
Charlie – I think my theory works for every character, including those I did not list here. The only character that some might argue did not live his TRUE SELF in FSW is Charlie. However, after much contemplation, I think I can answer this. Charlie was shown as a good guy during mortal life…up until the drugs. He tried to get his brother to do the right thing, etc. But once drugs became a part of his life, he became a jerk. Then it was Claire’s ‘beauty and motherhood’ that really changed him on the island. In the FSW, I believe it was the same thing. I believe drugs made him a jerk, and witnessing Claire’s ‘beauty and motherhood’ changed him again. I think the point is that no matter what, drugs will always hide your TRUE SELF.
I’d love to hear thoughts.
Even Shannon and Boone clearly became good people on the island. And in the FSW, got along well. We see Boone get in fake-fight in order to get Shannon to be with Sayid. And Shannon tried to defend Boone in the alley. She would have never done that before the island changed her. She became her TRUE SELF.
Ben is even changed. The island, and perhaps helping Hurley run the island, changed him. So in FSW we see him as a much better man, and when he sits outside the church I think it’s because despite his changes and his better living in FSW he knows he still has redemption to seek. He becomes his TRUE SELF in FSW but still has work to do to heal his heart of his sins. I think Locke ‘forgiving’ Ben outside the church only adds evidence to this.
Hurley is the one who changed the least. I think this is evidence that, as Jack even says, it was supposed to be Hurley that protects the island all along. He was the one with the least guilt and redemption needed. He was basically his TRUE SELF all along.
[quote comment="375556"]“Jack, you don’t have a son. You don’t have a son, JACK!” That was my goose bump moment…my WTF is going on moment.
Share yours.[/quote]
That was my, ‘ya kiddin’ me, right?’ moment.
I loved all the emotional reunions–and I thought Vincent snuggling Jack into the after-life was sweet and touching–yeah, fine, so I didn’t want Jack to die at the end, but OK, it was kinda fitting, I guess.
I thought the PLUG at the center of the island was, uh…OK, the more I think about that, the less I like it. Come ON!!!!! corks, plugs…clap–Light off, clap, clap–Light On
So then HOW COME MIB get’s flung into the light, and comes out Smokey–the rest of our folks, including FLocke, go into the light, and they get to, uh, live, do crap, kill Flocke, lift enormously heavy styro-rocks, AND while mortally injured, pick said object up and re-plug it. (hmm, maybe it was pumice holding back the forces of Bottlement)
All hail!
I mean, it was the HEART of the Island!!!
I didn’t need it explained, I just hoped for something a little less mundane and a little more…MORE, if you know what I mean.
THERE was the time for transcendence–for some freaky-deaky mystical crap, some bizarro mind-bending possibility stuff.
And the consequences of taking out the plug–well, the series went down the drain right there.
not to be bitter.
Ya kiddin’ me, right? No explosions, purple sky, streaming visions, energy veining out to possibly destroy the earth? Maybe a volcano, electrical storm, island starts spinning as matter collapses towards the black hole of oblivion? Why not? It should have been BIG, Grand, Awesome–not some falling rocks, shaky cameras, and chunks-o-island slipping into the sea. Oh yeah, and time to go back in and fix it.
eh, I don’t mean it 100%–there really was so much to love about the ending, but while I ‘get’ it I don’t really love it.
Mixed am I.
and now part 2 of the finale recap by Doc Jensen posted..
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20388269,00.html
Tim’s Opinion:
They were dead at the point that the laws of physics and causality changed. A slight deviation of physics is acceptable. Innovation by the Darma group can reasonably be accepted up to the point where they do things violating C space rules. C space violation would mean they are in a different level of existence.
The question is when reality changed. The smoke monster seems like it is the line to draw. We get to see the origins of the smoke as the crazy old witch mother describing how the light, the heart of the island, change one brother into the smoke monster. That is metaphysical and not of this existence.
The reason for the Island is purgatory. They needed to purge all of the sins of their lives in the new existence on the Island. “What happened, really happened” according to Christian Shepherd aka Jesus or possibly the ferry man at the river Styx. Even though they had not met in their lives, they did meet in death and had their most significant interaction in death. The parallel lives were extensions of their existing life with the effects of purgatory improving their lives. Desmond was dead as well and even though he was not on the plane, he shared the purgatory experience with the other lost souls on the Island. All things happened, all of the effects refined the souls of the individuals and they were ready to move on to heaven. They completed their lives from birth to death with the effects of the Island purgatory (Jack marries what’s her name and has a 16 year old son etc). They remembered their previous lives and purgatory struggles when they all met again and were called to the church to move on. Why did their lives end all at once roughly and why did Desmond gather them up? They all died in the plane and the course of their lives ended there.
[quote comment="375609"]It’s clear to me by reading most of these posts that the producers need to have a question and answer session and televise it. Their audience would be huge! We all need answers even if we don’t want to admit it. Anybody else want to see something like this?[/quote]
That will never happen dude. It is what it is unfortunately. The finale was great, but IMO really abstract. I thought I was watching a sci-fi mystery for 6 six years. At one point I actually thought I read somewhere that viewers were going to get answers. Instead of the 2.5 hour climax to arguably the best show on television in a long time, we got some religious BS. Again, it was cool. The entire last season was great in itself, but it wasn’t the “right” ending for MANY fans. According to some of these other posts it’s because we’re stupid and that’s fine. However, as stupid as I am I’m not a push-over and those who are happy with loose ends are. Unless this was the intent of the writers from the get go. If it was intended to be abstract and artsy then I’m totally wrong, but I thought I was getting sci-fi mystery instead…maybe I am stupid!
Anyway, if they did have a Q&A, which we know they won’t, what would you ask? If you had just one question. What would it be?
[quote comment="375546"]Loved the finale, but still have questions:
- So, what about all the fake people in the FSW construct, like David? What happens to them? Does it matter?
- Widmore: good or bad?
- Who made the statue on top of Jacob’s house? (I know it doesn’t matter, but I wanna know!)
- What is Smokey’s name?
- WTF was Eliose Hawkins talking to Desmond about at the concert? I guess she knew they were all dead? So, what was her point? Why does she care? Writer head-fake?
- So, once ‘enlightened/compliant’ Desmond walked out of the electromagnetic machine, he knew everything would be OK because one day everyone would eventually die anyway and come together again in total happiness? Huh?
- Did the plane at the end make it to safety? Or, was that the plane wreckage shown at the very end from that plane? D’oh!
- If the plane did make it, does that mean Richard is still immortal? He wasn’t at the church at the end, so I guess so. Spin-off?
- Why was the sunken-island shown at the beginning of the season? Writer head-fake?[/quote]
Toeknee gave some answers. I’ll add my 2 cents.
1. No. David wasn’t real.
2. Widmore mostly bad. Look back on all the previous seasons and look what he’s done. I guess I’ll have to believe him when he said Jacob came to him and showed him the error of his ways. At first I thought he was back to exploit the island and possess it. Previously he told Ben that he was going to take back the island and everything else Ben took from him. Then again if Flocke succeeded in his plan, “everyone would cease to be” as we were told.
4. Smokey’s name is Clint as in Clint Eastwood. “Man With No Name” character. (Just kidding)
6. Because of what Desmond saw, that’s why he was so confident and unafraid of Flocke.
9. We were shown the island at the bottom of the sea because that’s where it would have been if Flocke had won and Jack didn’t “fix it”.
Agree with Toeknee about the statue, Eloise, the plane and Richard.
[quote comment="375295"][quote comment="375270"]
[/quote]
This is the camp I find myself in. While Lost has been a character-driven show, the incredible plot twists and expanding mythology of the past six seasons equalled – if not surpassed – the character-driven feel of the series.
I loved both. The mysteries and strangeness was the icing on the cake.
I am mostly disappointed because the two biggest overarching themes: Good v. Evil and Destine v. Free Will did not play into the finale at all!
I think if you watch it again you will see those themes were still there. Jack (good) vs. Flocke (bad). Jack chose to be the Protector of the island/light (free will) and felt he was supposed to do it (destiny). Ben chose to help Flocke (free will) and later deserted him (free will)
I am not even going into other myths that I hoped would be illuminated (i.e. what were Widmore’s intentions, what was time travelling for? why did Faraday confuse everything with his skinny-tie theories, etc). And I never wanted Darlton to answer all of my questions (numbers, Walt, etc),
A few episodes ago I thought Widmore was there for selfish reasons as he had been in the past. He later said Jacob convinced him of the error of his ways. He brought Desmond back to stop Flocke believing he was the only way to accomplish this. I for one believed that too.
I almost prefer a Soprano-like ending to this hot mess!
I never saw the Sopranos but heard what the ending was. I think a lot of people would have been upset if they did that too. In fact people were saying it prior to the ending. I’m in no way putting down your opinion or reaction to the ending. I have a feeling no matter how they ended it some people would’ve loved it or hated it. Don’t you?
[/quote]
Sorry I messed that up.
I loved both. The mysteries and strangeness was the icing on the cake.
I think if you watch it again you will see those themes were still there. Jack (good) vs. Flocke (bad). Jack chose to be the Protector of the island/light (free will) and felt he was supposed to do it (destiny). Ben chose to help Flocke (free will) and later deserted him (free will)
A few episodes ago I thought Widmore was there for selfish reasons as he had been in the past. He later said Jacob convinced him of the error of his ways. He brought Desmond back to stop Flocke believing he was the only way to accomplish this. I for one believed that too. I think either Faraday made a mistake (it was a huge gamble) OR his cranky, manipulative mother had something to do with it. She did have access to his journal. I wouldn’t put anything past her.
I never saw the Sopranos but heard what the ending was. I think a lot of people would have been upset if they did that too. In fact people were saying it prior to the ending. I’m in no way putting down your opinion or reaction to the ending. I have a feeling no matter how they ended it some people would’ve loved it or hated it. Don’t you?
Wow. It’s taken me 2 days to read all these wonderful posts! Great ideas and explanations, guys. I liked the ending, even cried a little bit (hated to watch Jack die!), but I do have a question: Since MIB was killed by Jack and the island was ‘saved’, what was there to protect the island from afterwards? Just random people who happened to land there? I was under the impression, as Jacob said, it only ENDS once and I took it that this was THE END. Did the island continue to draw people to it?
[quote comment="375640"]Wow. It’s taken me 2 days to read all these wonderful posts! Great ideas and explanations, guys. I liked the ending, even cried a little bit (hated to watch Jack die!), but I do have a question: Since MIB was killed by Jack and the island was ‘saved’, what was there to protect the island from afterwards? Just random people who happened to land there? I was under the impression, as Jacob said, it only ENDS once and I took it that this was THE END. Did the island continue to draw people to it?[/quote]
Well, they said that people have always been trying to tap into the light. Dharma and others have ‘sought’ after the island for many years. So I can see the threat…and the need to protect the island.
[quote comment="375635"]Tim’s Opinion:
They were dead at the point that the laws of physics and causality changed. A slight deviation of physics is acceptable. Innovation by the Darma group can reasonably be accepted up to the point where they do things violating C space rules. C space violation would mean they are in a different level of existence.
The question is when reality changed. The smoke monster seems like it is the line to draw. We get to see the origins of the smoke as the crazy old witch mother describing how the light, the heart of the island, change one brother into the smoke monster. That is metaphysical and not of this existence.
The reason for the Island is purgatory. They needed to purge all of the sins of their lives in the new existence on the Island. “What happened, really happened” according to Christian Shepherd aka Jesus or possibly the ferry man at the river Styx. Even though they had not met in their lives, they did meet in death and had their most significant interaction in death. The parallel lives were extensions of their existing life with the effects of purgatory improving their lives. Desmond was dead as well and even though he was not on the plane, he shared the purgatory experience with the other lost souls on the Island. All things happened, all of the effects refined the souls of the individuals and they were ready to move on to heaven. They completed their lives from birth to death with the effects of the Island purgatory (Jack marries what’s her name and has a 16 year old son etc). They remembered their previous lives and purgatory struggles when they all met again and were called to the church to move on. Why did their lives end all at once roughly and why did Desmond gather them up? They all died in the plane and the course of their lives ended there.[/quote]
_________________________
What? I didn’t watch that show?
[quote comment="375602"][quote comment="375598"]
[/quote]
This was a brilliant set up by the writers. We were lead to believe that Des “flashing” into FSW was the same as him “flashing” in “The Constant.” But in season 6 it was not. Des was getting flashes of the FSW but did NOT know that was not an alternate reality, Des as he did in the constant thought the placed he “flashed” to was “real” in a real time traveling way (similar to the flashes in the constant). Thus his line to Jack that nothing they do (on island time) matters was a product of this. Des thought that when he pulled that crapp out of the shinny pool he would “flash” to “reality” (the FSW) BUT when he did pull it out and nothing happened he was “lost.”
This explains why Jack tells Des after Des tells him nothing they do here matters, that EVERYTHING they do in the island matters as in defeating fLocke is a very REAL and ESSENTIAL thing to do. Des like us was tricked into believing the FSW was “real” when only the island time was real and the FSW a way for them to meet before heading into “the light that never goes out”[/quote]
I noticed that too. After Desmond’s little electromagnetism session with Widmore, he acted so happy and confident. He thought nothing of going with Sayid and wasn’t the least bit afraid of Flocke. He tried to convince Jack about going to the happy place too
He was so sure he’d just flash somewhere else while down in the light source. When it didn’t happen he was totally shocked.
[quote comment="375600"][quote comment="375486"][quote comment="375485"][quote comment="375483"][quote comment="375481"]_______________________________________
Negative. This is not what Christian said. Desmond, Widmore, Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, Daniel, etc., where never on 815 so how is it they were dead all along? The logic of that take is flawed. It’s not correct. You can’t prove me wrong. In fact, the show states proof to the contrary. Please, everyone just stop saying they were dead from the first crash.[/quote]
how’s about they were dead before they ever arrived to the island? If the island is a pergatory, only those passing on can be there. The plane was just the vessel taking them there like the boat over the river styx. So if we’re hoping for sequels, maybe the stories of how they actually departed from the earthworld we call ‘real’[/quote]
__________________________
Dude you’re funny. How’s about they were alive the whole time, just like the show and the writers said. Peace out!
Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.
[quote comment="375642"][quote comment="375635"]Tim’s Opinion:
They were dead at the point that the laws of physics and causality changed. A slight deviation of physics is acceptable. Innovation by the Darma group can reasonably be accepted up to the point where they do things violating C space rules. C space violation would mean they are in a different level of existence.
The question is when reality changed. The smoke monster seems like it is the line to draw. We get to see the origins of the smoke as the crazy old witch mother describing how the light, the heart of the island, change one brother into the smoke monster. That is metaphysical and not of this existence.
The reason for the Island is purgatory. They needed to purge all of the sins of their lives in the new existence on the Island. “What happened, really happened” according to Christian Shepherd aka Jesus or possibly the ferry man at the river Styx. Even though they had not met in their lives, they did meet in death and had their most significant interaction in death. The parallel lives were extensions of their existing life with the effects of purgatory improving their lives. Desmond was dead as well and even though he was not on the plane, he shared the purgatory experience with the other lost souls on the Island. All things happened, all of the effects refined the souls of the individuals and they were ready to move on to heaven. They completed their lives from birth to death with the effects of the Island purgatory (Jack marries what’s her name and has a 16 year old son etc). They remembered their previous lives and purgatory struggles when they all met again and were called to the church to move on. Why did their lives end all at once roughly and why did Desmond gather them up? They all died in the plane and the course of their lives ended there.[/quote]
_________________________
What? I didn’t watch that show?[/quote]
Sorry. I don’t understand that New Age stuff and have no idea what you said in the first two paragraphs.
Their time on the island wasn’t a new existence. I agree what happened on the island was real. Christian Shephard was Jack’s father not Jesus or the ferryman at the River Styx. Only MIB took on the appearance of dead people remember? The characters DID meet in life on the island when they were ALIVE. They DID NOT all die in the plane crash or all at once. They were brought there by Jacob to find a suitable replacement for himself. Even if it was just an island without any magical qualities or people, life happened to them. No purging of sins. Trials and struggles help make us stronger. Remember The Moth? Everyone experiences struggles, that’s life not purging of sins.
There was one Purge but that’s a different story.
[quote comment="375643"][quote comment="375602"][quote comment="375598"]
[/quote]
This was a brilliant set up by the writers. We were lead to believe that Des “flashing” into FSW was the same as him “flashing” in “The Constant.” But in season 6 it was not. Des was getting flashes of the FSW but did NOT know that was not an alternate reality, Des as he did in the constant thought the placed he “flashed” to was “real” in a real time traveling way (similar to the flashes in the constant). Thus his line to Jack that nothing they do (on island time) matters was a product of this. Des thought that when he pulled that crapp out of the shinny pool he would “flash” to “reality” (the FSW) BUT when he did pull it out and nothing happened he was “lost.”
This explains why Jack tells Des after Des tells him nothing they do here matters, that EVERYTHING they do in the island matters as in defeating fLocke is a very REAL and ESSENTIAL thing to do. Des like us was tricked into believing the FSW was “real” when only the island time was real and the FSW a way for them to meet before heading into “the light that never goes out”[/quote]
I noticed that too. After Desmond’s little electromagnetism session with Widmore, he acted so happy and confident. He thought nothing of going with Sayid and wasn’t the least bit afraid of Flocke. He tried to convince Jack about going to the happy place too
He was so sure he’d just flash somewhere else while down in the light source. When it didn’t happen he was totally shocked.[/quote]
=============================
That’s what I said:
“What I find most interesting is that island Desmond lived as FSW Desmond , but after the effects of the electromagnetism wore off it appears they no longer shared the same mind anymore (Because Des thought unplugging the light pool would send him back there and nothing else mattered)…So I’m trying to figure out if FSW Des couldn’t share minds with island Des anymore how is it that FSW Des KNOW he was trying to get the others to escape purgatory rather than just remember there old self…”
This why everything that happened on the island was REAL because the island’s power and it’s ultimate location is a realm between life and death..That’s why Juliet said what she said, when she said it…The nuke created the tear and that made the ability to commune with the otherside more prevalent…Dez ultimately traveled to his deadzone self, got awoken a bit by Charlie, really got woke by Penny (to the point he passes out in FSW), but in-between island Dez losing that connection, FSW Dez was awoken to the FSW being purgatory, while the other Dez was just a passenger in his own body since he knew nothing of this…
Brilliant or yet another huge inconsistency…
where’d all the smart peeps like hammer, and toeknee, and pj, and boobola go. it seems that there are only three bloogers using four different names each…. that keep commenting about their own preschool comments. (self-supporting idiocy, supporting itz own idiocracy)
[quote comment="375566"]I am surprised by the amount of people unsatisfied with the finale. I can assure you only smart people fully understand it. So if you don’t like/get the ending you must be fairly stupid. Go back to your mundane (look it up) sitcoms and boring cubicle lives. Stop infesting this blog with your stupidity.[/quote]
Because it takes a PhD to fully comprehend Lost…
It is true that we cannot escape shrimp heads even in doctoral programs…
[quote comment="375649"][quote comment="375566"]I am surprised by the amount of people unsatisfied with the finale. I can assure you only smart people fully understand it. So if you don’t like/get the ending you must be fairly stupid. Go back to your mundane (look it up) sitcoms and boring cubicle lives. Stop infesting this blog with your stupidity.[/quote]
quote]
You’re sure not getting a Ph.D. in humility. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.I loved the show and I respect others for differing with me. And for the record, I’m a Ph.D.
[quote comment="375643"][quote comment="375602"][quote comment="375598"]
[/quote]
This was a brilliant set up by the writers. We were lead to believe that Des “flashing” into FSW was the same as him “flashing” in “The Constant.” But in season 6 it was not. Des was getting flashes of the FSW but did NOT know that was not an alternate reality, Des as he did in the constant thought the placed he “flashed” to was “real” in a real time traveling way (similar to the flashes in the constant). Thus his line to Jack that nothing they do (on island time) matters was a product of this. Des thought that when he pulled that crapp out of the shinny pool he would “flash” to “reality” (the FSW) BUT when he did pull it out and nothing happened he was “lost.”
This explains why Jack tells Des after Des tells him nothing they do here matters, that EVERYTHING they do in the island matters as in defeating fLocke is a very REAL and ESSENTIAL thing to do. Des like us was tricked into believing the FSW was “real” when only the island time was real and the FSW a way for them to meet before heading into “the light that never goes out”[/quote]
I noticed that too. After Desmond’s little electromagnetism session with Widmore, he acted so happy and confident. He thought nothing of going with Sayid and wasn’t the least bit afraid of Flocke. He tried to convince Jack about going to the happy place too
He was so sure he’d just flash somewhere else while down in the light source. When it didn’t happen he was totally shocked.[/quote]
Does this mean that Juliet was also tricked into believing that what she saw just before her death in FSW was real, and she thought that the hbomb caused a reboot? I don’t want this to be the case because I wanted to believe that Juliet knew that the bomb didn’t reboot, and what she was referring to when she said it worked was the hbomb leading to their plane crash.
See, the reason the whole time traveling, dharma initiative stuff makes sense strategically in the plot, IMO, is that it facilitated and lead to Jack detonating the hbomb and causing the plane to crash in 2004. In other words, he caused the events that lead to the crash and their time on the island, which as C Shepherd said was the most important part of his life. But thats just my opinion.
[quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
I see it like this. The light is in all of us. When harnessed gently it heals. But to be exposed full throttle to it would burn us to a crisp.
May be when MIB was thrown down there he bumped into the cork, knocked it out, and got sucked into the hole. Desmond and Jack never went down the hole, so they were not subject to the same fate as MIB.
As for the smoke monster, I think it needs a physical vessel to exist in. Once that vessel was gone when Flocke died the MIB smoke monster seized to exist. Thats not to say that someone else can’t be thrown into the cave of light and turn into darkness just like MIB. It’ll just be someone different and a new smoke monster, which is what Hurley and Ben now have to prevent from happening.
Reasons why the Island really did exist in the real world and they didnt all die in the original airplane crash:
1) Jack “are they all dead too?”
Christian “Yes, some died before you, some long after”
2) Christian also said the reason they needed eachother to move on is because the time they all spent on the island was the most significant part of their LIVES.
3) Half the people on the island werent on the flight. Including Desmond & Penny who were in the church moving on.
4) When each person remembered their life and everything they did, good & bad, they had flashes of times on island… if that wasnt their life then they would have had just memories of their lives before the crash.
5) The sneaker Jack walked by was torn and ragged, real time passed.
6) There is no evidence that they all died in the crash and island wasnt “real”
& many more, too many to list…
I think whats confusing people is that they dont realize the island and the Flash Sideways World are two different things. The island is a magical mysterious place that exists in the real world. The FSW world is a world they all created in their collective psyche and needed eachother to “wake up” and move on to afterworld.
[quote comment="375601"][quote comment="375493"]I think the ending was amazing! The island was the real time and the sideways world was also ‘real’ to the characters since their consciousness allowed them to create it as they wanted which is brilliant in my mind bc I do believe we are able to create our version of reality after we leave the body and enter the spirit world. They just didnt know they were creating it.
All of the lost characters in the sideways world participated with one another at the soul level which is why things were pretty picture perfect for those who chose it that way in the sideways world. I think the island allowed the LOST characters to create their world as they saw fit and most of them chose fear. Perhaps they chose fear bc of how things were in their living life before they died and since they did not know how much power they had in creating their lives their time on the island was a bunch of suffering. Once they realized they could create their lives by their thoughts,they then created the sideways world. I think they all didnt realize they were dead until they ‘remembered’ the island. I think we saw it all from Jack’s point of view which is why everyone at the church was waiting for him… I think since there is no actual ‘time’ but NOW in the afterlife and so, that is why everyone was at the church together…even though they may have died at different earth times… Christian did say they all died sooner or later. I also think that their soul was ‘Lost’ until they were all ready to move on! Jacob and his bro were Lost longer than our LOST buddies and played by their ‘rules’ bc they were creating their own afterlife how they wanted to.
In my mind, our LOST characters that were in the church are from the same soul group that incarnate together in order to help each other along their spiritual path towards evolution. For that reason, the people that were not in the church may not be part of the main soul group but from other soul groups and just participated during the Lost character’s lives anyway but didnt need to really show up at church bc they are from a different soul group. Because of all of this, I think the ending was amazing![/quote]
PERFECT![/quote]
My feeling exactly! However, I had to watch it a second time before I finally got the Big Picture
[quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
Totally with you here!
There is so much that was fabulous about the show, but the kind of internal logic gaps that you’re talking about above ARE bothersome.
[quote comment="375648"]where’d all the smart peeps like hammer, and toeknee, and pj, and boobola go. it seems that there are only three bloogers using four different names each…. that keep commenting about their own preschool comments. (self-supporting idiocy, supporting itz own idiocracy)[/quote]
Thanks for the shout-out, Cecile. I can’t speak for the Others (pun fully intended), but the reason I went into “radio silence” here was because, for the first time, I felt like defending my theory of what happened would simply sully the experience. I thought the ending was PERFECT and reading all the angry, miserable, complaining posts would serve no purpose. As I have said before, we always have a choice. I chose to keep my experience in the light and away from Smokey! LOL
That said, today I skimmed through the posts to see what the “regulars” were saying. There have been some very thoughtful, insightful, thought provoking posts, and plenty that weren’t. Complaining about what wasn’t, isn’t going to change anything. Nor is complaining about the negative posts, so I shall not.
Once again, I thank all those who contributed to my LOST experience over the years.
: ) P
ps – for those who are interested, there is a LOST Encyclopedia coming out in August (just in time for the DVD release, I believe). I doubt it will answer any questions, but I am sure it will be a fun addition to the LOST addict’s collection.
[quote comment="375653"]Reasons why the Island really did exist in the real world and they didnt all die in the original airplane crash:
1) Jack “are they all dead too?”
Christian “Yes, some died before you, some long after”
2) Christian also said the reason they needed eachother to move on is because the time they all spent on the island was the most significant part of their LIVES.
3) Half the people on the island werent on the flight. Including Desmond & Penny who were in the church moving on.
4) When each person remembered their life and everything they did, good & bad, they had flashes of times on island… if that wasnt their life then they would have had just memories of their lives before the crash.
5) The sneaker Jack walked by was torn and ragged, real time passed.
6) There is no evidence that they all died in the crash and island wasnt “real”
& many more, too many to list…
The island is a magical mysterious place that exists in the real world. The FSW world is a world they all created in their collective psyche and needed eachother to “wake up” and move on to afterworld.[/quote]
Again, playing devil’s advocate, perhaps the biggest piece of “evidence” that the island was a purgatory-like place, is the fact that all that supernatural stuff occurred there. Yes as a viewer I accepted that to be a “real” experience for them, but now that we’ve introduced a purgatory element, can’t one now take a fresh look at that and come up with the conclusion that the island was a “trials” place? The island not being through with someone could mean that they haven’t completed their trial?
You’ve listed some reasons to support the writer’s perceived intent. However, aren’t those reasons filled with assumptions? Namely that a person in purgatory can’t remember their time in purgatory? Perhaps that’s why they are able to ‘remember’ that experience. Or as others have suggested, that time is not linear and those things could be going on in just one portion of their purgatory experience. In other words, one minute they are ‘recalling’ island time, in the next moment they’re ‘recalling’ playing on the playground in the 5th grade…it’s just that we weren’t shown that…but is that so far fetched a leap given what we’ve been shown in the show?
You’ve also mentioned that the passage of time occurred on the island, and aside from the theory that time is not linear, doesn’t the fact that the island is a magical mystical place trump any notions of following rules that we’ve come to expect in our everyday lives…especially when the rules of this show have never been laid out?
So isn’t it conceivable that the island time and FSW be two separate things, but part of the same process?
These are but just some of the issues that come into play when the limits to the rules are boundless.
[quote comment="375655"] [quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
Totally with you here!
There is so much that was fabulous about the show, but the kind of internal logic gaps that you’re talking about above ARE bothersome.[/quote]
On the one hand it seems we’re led to believe that the heart of the island was like the Ring in LOTR. Something that folks simply had to have. We’re led to believe it would corrupt folks. Like Smokey was trying all his existence to find the light, and could not. But then it seems like he was leading them there, that was a little confusing to me but I probably read too much into that.
People have mentioned that Ben wasn’t ready to move on yet so he didn’t go in the church, or whatever, but what evidence is there to show that he did in fact change? He was conniving all the way up to when he found out he couldn’t get his way. What would stop him from killing Hugo so that he could control the island…to me that would be the spinoff.
I just don’t see what lesson Ben learned in all that, we still know he wants control of the island…poor Hugo, he’s a dead man.
First off – I don’t think anyone is dumb for not liking the finale or for not getting all of “your” questions answered. There were too many questions posed that were of varying degrees of importance to each individual viewer for everyone to be happy. However, EVERY poll I’ve seen has been at least 75% in favor of the way the show ended, so my guess is D&C should be happy with their results.
For those that want more mythology questions answered, let me ask you this. When you watch/read Harry Potter, do you expect JK Rowling to tell you how everyone got magical powers? When you watch/read Twilight or watch True Blood, do you want them to answer why they are vampires or werewolves? I’ll throw the midichlorians reference from Star Wars in too, is that something that needs to be explanied fully in order to enjoy the story or are they plot devices to advance the story along?
I will say there are still plot holes – I’m hoping they address the DHARMA food drops…where Walt went (I think he just grew faster than he wanted him too and couldn’t work him back in)…what their main plan for Eko was before the actor bailed on Hawaii (did Desmond take his storyline?).
These are some of the questions I hope they answer in the DVD. I think these are the types of things they will address…not necessarily exactly why the island acts like it does.
[quote comment="375658"]
I just don’t see what lesson Ben learned in all that, we still know he wants control of the island…poor Hugo, he’s a dead man.[/quote]
Pretty sure that was addressed in the end with “you were a good #1″ and “you were a good #2 too” comments. Evidently they got along just fine.
[quote comment="375658"]
People have mentioned that Ben wasn’t ready to move on yet so he didn’t go in the church, or whatever, but what evidence is there to show that he did in fact change? He was conniving all the way up to when he found out he couldn’t get his way. What would stop him from killing Hugo so that he could control the island…to me that would be the spinoff.
I just don’t see what lesson Ben learned in all that, we still know he wants control of the island…poor Hugo, he’s a dead man.[/quote]
Even now that the series is over, you never know what is really going on in Ben’s mind. But I believe that he has learned a lesson that has humbled him – there’s a lot of examples throughout Season 6 that indicates he is a different person (on the island), the most notable being the scene described in the following excerpt from Lostpedia’s episode summary of “Dr. Linus”. Whether or not he will truly change from being a manipulative S.O.B., we don’t really know, but as Hurley’s Dad mentioned in comment 660, it seems that he ended up being one of “the good guys.”
Ben runs into the jungle and Ilana dashes after him. Ben reaches the rifle planted by Locke and turns on a surprised Ilana, who drops her weapon. After a long, tense moment, Ilana asks why Ben is waiting to shoot her. He says that he knows what Ilana is feeling because he watched his daughter Alex die in front of him. Ben, who is clearly grieved and ashamed, says that he sacrificed everything, including Alex’s life, for the Island in the name of Jacob, who didn’t even care. Ben says that he was angry and confused when he stabbed Jacob, and he was terrified that he was about to lose what he felt mattered most to him, his power — but what really mattered most, Alex, was already gone. He tells Ilana that he is sorry for killing Jacob, and that he doesn’t expect her to forgive him, because he can never forgive himself.
[quote comment="375651"][quote comment="375643"][quote comment="375602"][quote comment="375598"]
[/quote]
This was a brilliant set up by the writers. We were lead to believe that Des “flashing” into FSW was the same as him “flashing” in “The Constant.” But in season 6 it was not. Des was getting flashes of the FSW but did NOT know that was not an alternate reality, Des as he did in the constant thought the placed he “flashed” to was “real” in a real time traveling way (similar to the flashes in the constant). Thus his line to Jack that nothing they do (on island time) matters was a product of this. Des thought that when he pulled that crapp out of the shinny pool he would “flash” to “reality” (the FSW) BUT when he did pull it out and nothing happened he was “lost.”
This explains why Jack tells Des after Des tells him nothing they do here matters, that EVERYTHING they do in the island matters as in defeating fLocke is a very REAL and ESSENTIAL thing to do. Des like us was tricked into believing the FSW was “real” when only the island time was real and the FSW a way for them to meet before heading into “the light that never goes out”[/quote]
I noticed that too. After Desmond’s little electromagnetism session with Widmore, he acted so happy and confident. He thought nothing of going with Sayid and wasn’t the least bit afraid of Flocke. He tried to convince Jack about going to the happy place too
He was so sure he’d just flash somewhere else while down in the light source. When it didn’t happen he was totally shocked.[/quote]
Does this mean that Juliet was also tricked into believing that what she saw just before her death in FSW was real, and she thought that the hbomb caused a reboot? I don’t want this to be the case because I wanted to believe that Juliet knew that the bomb didn’t reboot, and what she was referring to when she said it worked was the hbomb leading to their plane crash.
See, the reason the whole time traveling, dharma initiative stuff makes sense strategically in the plot, IMO, is that it facilitated and lead to Jack detonating the hbomb and causing the plane to crash in 2004. In other words, he caused the events that lead to the crash and their time on the island, which as C Shepherd said was the most important part of his life. But thats just my opinion.[/quote]
===================
It did BOTH…That’s why I was saying the island is the midpoint between both realities because what you do there can affect both planes…
[quote comment="375652"][quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
I see it like this. The light is in all of us. When harnessed gently it heals. But to be exposed full throttle to it would burn us to a crisp.
May be when MIB was thrown down there he bumped into the cork, knocked it out, and got sucked into the hole. Desmond and Jack never went down the hole, so they were not subject to the same fate as MIB.
As for the smoke monster, I think it needs a physical vessel to exist in. Once that vessel was gone when Flocke died the MIB smoke monster seized to exist. Thats not to say that someone else can’t be thrown into the cave of light and turn into darkness just like MIB. It’ll just be someone different and a new smoke monster, which is what Hurley and Ben now have to prevent from happening.[/quote]
Jacob sent him down the hole, not Tiger Woods, that’s some shot you’re suggesting…
[quote comment="375186"][quote comment="375178"][quote comment="375165"][quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
There is no explanation. I beleive comment 116 correctly captures the writers intent. I also believe the writers didn’t have a plot that logically ties together … the whole show is just nonsensical.
The numbers, the dharma initiative, jacob / adam, jacob’s lair, why only richard could speak to jacob, what the island is, why there were hyrogliphics on the light plug, the polar bear, why children couldn’t be born on the island,the others, why the others wanted walt, why wald was specials and why they were testing his blood, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
I don’t think the show is nonsensical. Sure, some of the stuff you mention was filler. Walt and aaron didn’t really matter. So what? The mythology just has to be accepted from what “Mother” said. If the light goes out, all life ends. Some in the Dharma initiative and Others were candidates. Jacob and MIB have been going at this for a long time. It is really about the characters anyway and the mysteries of the island are like a character.[/quote]
Sorry, the show is nonsensical. You want more?
The Island underground, Widemore’s role, what Widemore whispered to Flocke, what the smoke monster was (widemore said he had heard myths), the hatch, the various dharma stations, the time travel, the space travel (e.g. to egypt), the donkey wheel, jacob’s lighthouse, the nuclear bomb, etc, etc, etc.
No one even knows what the island is. Jacob didn’t, Jacob’s crazy mom probably didn’t, Jack didn’t, Hugo certainly didn’t. So any rules can be made up. No explanation required.[/quote]
Sure the technology of the wheel and lighthouse and everything doesn’t make a lot of sense, but you just have to chalk it up to magic and suspend disbelief.
Jacob said the island is a cork holding back hell. It ties into what the Dharma initiative research was all about, changing the date of the end of the world. Maybe if there hadn’t been a Dharma Iniative the numbers whould have been different and MIB would have won.[/quote]
You actually have to suspend belief, If you suspend disbelief you DO NOT BELIEVE!
[quote comment="375664"][quote comment="375186"][quote comment="375178"][quote comment="375165"][quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
It is really about the characters anyway and the mysteries of the island are like a character.[/quote]
So any rules can be made up. No explanation required.[/quote]
Maybe if there hadn’t been a Dharma Iniative the numbers whould have been different and MIB would have won.[/quote]
You actually have to suspend belief, If you suspend disbelief you DO NOT BELIEVE![/quote]
________________________________________
Actually, belief = you do believe
disbelief = you do not believe
suspend disbelief = you do believe
[quote comment="375109"]If this was the afterlife and they were waiting for each other to die, than why did it seem like they were waiting for jack to die. He died on the island way before people the rest would of…like the people on the plane??[/quote]
They had to show that. Jack saved the island, and therefore that allowed everyone else to live their lives off the island. Everyone else died way after Jack obviously but his death was the most significant as it prevented the light from staying out.
This is TV people, it’s not all going to make sense. It’s LOST, this show has been totally different from the beginning, just take it for what it is…creative writing and a fantastic 6 seasons!
[quote comment="375134"]So Ben didn’t go inside because he wasn’t dead yet or he wasn’t ready to admit that he was dead?
Plus….Sawyer, Kate, & Claire were all on the plane that left with Lapidus, Miles, & Richard. So where in the hell were they at during the church scene?[/quote]
Watch it again, they were all in the church scene. Claire was holding Aaron, Kate was sitting with Jack, Sawyer hugged Jack, just look closer.
I just wanted to make sure I posted one last long winded comment before its too late!
So, now I watched a second time and I feel like I need to revise my theory. I think evryone has some good ideas, but I’m gonna re-tread on the whole afterlife/dead all along thing, because I see now that SO MANY questions are answered. It is only when your soul decides that you are no longer a part of the game, that it finally ends. The soul goes on forever.
On the island you are alive and in the FSW you are alive,but in a different life… you dont die until you die.
At the end, the second time around, I got the feeling that the Losties actually chose to go BACK to the island for the rest of time instead of stay in the FSW… and assume that Hurley, during his years as leader, made the island a better place to live (err…be…whatever)
Ben comes to the church because he knows that the time has come for the core losties to go back as a group (just as we saw before, in every life line, they WILL go back), (which I think is symbolized for Jack as the “concert being over” scene—). We see that Hurley is back in the real world (FSW), taking care of his leadership business before the concert, because he has to make sure that everyone is on board to go at the same time, regrouping the troops, before the concert ends. Sure, sure, that means they die… but that is just a footnote…
Ben is allowed (FINALLY) to go home and live a life that he probably always wanted, because Hurley has granted him to, with Alex and Danielle (why? the show suggests that some characters choose to live forever, i.e. Richard— and some characters can dance between life and death, I think thats where Ben is at the end, because it’s where he wants to be… “I dont think I’m going in”… he has no more need to be on the island… remember that the FSW people were DIFFERENT people, until they had the flashes… so after how ever many years on the island, Ben finally realizes that he can have his life, by leaving the island this way. The reason he is at the church is to say goodbye to Hurley and properly apologize to Locke.)
I still think that Eloise and Daniel (Whitmore) Faraday are alive in the FSW, and can live out the rest of there alternate lives, same with Charlotte…. however, not sure about Charles Whitmore. If he was to be punished by the island, then going back may have trapped him as a whisperer…
Also trapped is Anthony Cooper.
Outstanding to me is Desmond pulling the plug. Essentially he is ONCE AGAIN the fail safe, and I wish that Whitmores explanation of Desmond being the fail safe was in this episode instead of the previous episode, because once I put that together it added another level of brilliance. He was the FAIL SAFE! So many devices were used throughout the show, just to pull the plug out and release the energy. Seems that the most effective was the button pushing because it wasnt so extreme, but it also seems to me that the key, the wheel, and even the jamming device that Charlie stopped, were all connected to that plug. In order for the island to survive it needs to be pulled out and plugged back in constantly, to keep it from destroying itself. Just a small part of the job -protecting the light—-
Alan Dale: “I’m still not sure if my character was good or bad…”
In retrospect of the whole series, I think that the dead are not necessarilly dead, and the living are not necessarilly living… or, they are, but the lines between both are very thin. By the powers of the island, things can always be changed, rearranged, or altered with enough struggle and intuition. The End doesn’t come until you are just satisfied, and no longer need to be a part of the world (and/or island)… SO SEE? Rose and Bernard, no longer intefering on the island. Alive or dead, dead or alive, they have chosen to become ghosts… no longer to be seen or heard, because they CHOOSE not to be (even though they slipped up that one time and broke a rule…) EnlightNment.
Well, now I know an alternate meaning for “PhD” after reading their posts. But I bet they are smart enough to figure it out.
But I definitely didn’t like the last episode. I guess that is what heppens when you write yourself into a hole. I will probably re-watch the whole series at some point, but I’m thinking right now that about 60-65% of the episodes and “plots” don’t matter at all. And that number will probably get higher as I watch.
At least my Tuesday nights are free now.
[quote comment="375285"][quote comment="375282"]
Juliet saying “it worked” was a reference to when Juliet told him how to retrieve the candy bar out of the vending machine in FSW when they met up. It wasn’t a reference to the bomb. With her dying words, basically, she had a glimpse into the afterlife.
[/quote]
I would really like it if this were the explanation, but I don’t think it is. The way that conversation transpired is that Sawyer was holding the dying Juliet, and she said she had something “really really important” to tell him. Then she died. Later Sawyer has Miles find out what Juliet wanted to tell him and Miles says “It worked……That’s what she wanted to tell you. It worked.” If she’s referring to the vending machine, why is it “really really important”?[/quote]
Because that’s how they find each other in the afterlife. She’s saying it’s really really important because she knows they will be together again, and “it working” (aka the candy bar) is what brings them together.
[quote comment="375294"][quote comment="375283"]Didn’t mean to send that without adding some more stuff…
Tbe brilliance of this show is twofold. One, the characters and the actual drama produced was compelling and amazing. I agree with somebody else that said that this finale reminded them of season 1, which was so character driven. It’s no coincidence that season 1 is generally regarded as the best of the show. Tonight what we saw was truly compelling television, and everybody that I know was crying while watching it tonight on many different occasions. That simply doesn’t happen without characters that truly grab you and stick with you.
And two, the mysteries were a part of what made this show amazing. We talked about them. Debated them. Did this for years. And when they don’t answer every one, many of you complain. Really? So the producers give us a show to discuss and debate unlike anything else ever on TV, and we complain about this? Their goal wasn’t to answer everything. Their goal was to create compelling television, and they did. Lost became a phenomenon largely because of this.
If you’ve watched the entire series from start to finish, this ending actually makes sense. So what if we don’t know all of the answers and some of it is ambiguous? And as compelling as it was, I just do not understand how so many people here seem miffed about it.
I’ll say it again. Tonight’s episode was the single greatest thing to ever appear on television or film.[/quote]
You talking al lot of shit. The show ended and there where a LOT of questions and we got NOT ONE fucking answer and you talking about the greatest thing to ever appear on television? Come on…[/quote]
Stop being obsessed with answers and enjoy the show. It’s entertainment, it’s creative, it provokes emotion and thought, it’s not meant to out line every single question and detail every single question so you can sleep at night. It was an amazing show, an amazing finale, and I plan on watching it all over again because it’s just that good!
[quote comment="375277"]Is it really that obvious that the FSW was the afterlife? May be that’s the easiest term to attribute to it, but that’s not what I thought when Christian was telling Jack about it.
I interpreted it to be another reality that really was set off when they exploded the bomb in 1977. I say this because when Juliet dies in Sawyer’s arms her subconsciousness travels to FSW where she sees a glimpse of her conversation with Sawyer at the vending machine. If FSW was in fact death, that means she saw both her and Sawyer in the afterlife, and in fact traveled there before she finally died when she told Sawyer that “it worked”. What worked? Them dying? I don’t think so. Likewise, Desmond told Jack when they were in the light cave that he could take them to a better place. I don’t think it makes much sense for him to say that he wants to take Jack to the afterlife.
When Christian said that we all die at some point I believe that he was trying to say that death is not what’s important. What’s important is redemption. We will all die sooner or later, but what’s important is the peace we find along the way, and the people who have helped us get there. Their journey on the island helped them find peace through the adversity and trial, and the mysteries surrounding the island enhanced their faith. Jack indeed died on the island, but he lives in peace in his other life.[/quote]
A good theory…except that in that conversation between Jack and Christian, Jack says “but you’re dead” Christian says “yes” and Jack says “I’m dead too”
Pretty clear Jack is not alive in this reality.
[quote comment="375659"]First off – I don’t think anyone is dumb for not liking the finale or for not getting all of “your” questions answered. There were too many questions posed that were of varying degrees of importance to each individual viewer for everyone to be happy. However, EVERY poll I’ve seen has been at least 75% in favor of the way the show ended, so my guess is D&C should be happy with their results.
For those that want more mythology questions answered, let me ask you this. When you watch/read Harry Potter, do you expect JK Rowling to tell you how everyone got magical powers? When you watch/read Twilight or watch True Blood, do you want them to answer why they are vampires or werewolves? I’ll throw the midichlorians reference from Star Wars in too, is that something that needs to be explanied fully in order to enjoy the story or are they plot devices to advance the story along?
I will say there are still plot holes – I’m hoping they address the DHARMA food drops…where Walt went (I think he just grew faster than he wanted him too and couldn’t work him back in)…what their main plan for Eko was before the actor bailed on Hawaii (did Desmond take his storyline?).
These are some of the questions I hope they answer in the DVD. I think these are the types of things they will address…not necessarily exactly why the island acts like it does.[/quote]
I don’t think your comparisons are proportional.
Harold Bloom is on the money when he said that today’s readers of Harry Potter are tomorrow’s readers of Stephen King (please, do not read this as a compliment) and I almost feel insulted with the innuendos of the comparison.
And let’s not even go there insofar as your comparison of True Blood and Twilight (really?) with the Lost saga/mythology.
It is in fact because of my deep appreciation and admiration for the saga, the plot, the characters and mythology of Lost that I feel upset about the finale.
I did expect more from D&C and the remaining writers of the series. And part of the responsibility for the high expectations they harnessed is theirs, with their tons of literary references (Carlos Castaneda, Steinbeck, Wells, etc, etc) philosophy references (David Hume, John Lock, philosophical musings around themes such as fate vs. free will, or mystical experience vs. empirical experience).
And to drop most of that in the finale in exchange for an easy and pyrotechnic plot development a la Shayamalan/Ghost Whisperer was truly heartbreaking.
Pyrotechnics do not fit, in my opinion, with Lost’s narrative. And neither does the ridiculous political correctness of the Finale’s Church (really? a stain glass with a print from one of my World Religions classes’ slide? These things spoke to me as if they were more concerned with the reaction of the viewers than with the plot, the narrative or the saga.
And what is up with the obsession of pairing everyone up? Was I tuned in the finale of Days of Our Lives or Lost?
(And as my last 2 cents, just so I make myself clear, I would not like to be counted with those who just were fishing for answers. But nevertheless, yes, I do agree with them that some perennial questions, and not merely the equivalent of “What are the midichlorians?”, were left untouched)
[quote comment="375670"][quote comment="375285"][quote comment="375282"]
Juliet saying “it worked” was a reference to when Juliet told him how to retrieve the candy bar out of the vending machine in FSW when they met up. It wasn’t a reference to the bomb. With her dying words, basically, she had a glimpse into the afterlife.
[/quote]
I would really like it if this were the explanation, but I don’t think it is. The way that conversation transpired is that Sawyer was holding the dying Juliet, and she said she had something “really really important” to tell him. Then she died. Later Sawyer has Miles find out what Juliet wanted to tell him and Miles says “It worked……That’s what she wanted to tell you. It worked.” If she’s referring to the vending machine, why is it “really really important”?[/quote]
Because that’s how they find each other in the afterlife. She’s saying it’s really really important because she knows they will be together again, and “it working” (aka the candy bar) is what brings them together.[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote comment="375674"][quote comment="375670"][quote comment="375285"][quote comment="375282"]
Juliet saying “it worked” was a reference to when Juliet told him how to retrieve the candy bar out of the vending machine in FSW when they met up. It wasn’t a reference to the bomb. With her dying words, basically, she had a glimpse into the afterlife.
[/quote]
I would really like it if this were the explanation, but I don’t think it is. The way that conversation transpired is that Sawyer was holding the dying Juliet, and she said she had something “really really important” to tell him. Then she died. Later Sawyer has Miles find out what Juliet wanted to tell him and Miles says “It worked……That’s what she wanted to tell you. It worked.” If she’s referring to the vending machine, why is it “really really important”?[/quote]
Because that’s how they find each other in the afterlife. She’s saying it’s really really important because she knows they will be together again, and “it working” (aka the candy bar) is what brings them together.[/quote]
Agreed.[/quote]
That well may be.
But then you ought to assume that the shot of the island in the bottom of the ocean in the final season premiere was thoroughly a red herring, and a very cheap one.
[quote comment="375675"]
That well may be.
But then you ought to assume that the shot of the island in the bottom of the ocean in the final season premiere was thoroughly a red herring, and a very cheap one.[/quote]
Actually no I don’t. I think the the shot of the island in the bottom of the ocean was what happened as a result of detonating the detonator which resulted in Desmond pulling the plug. Jack putting the plug in was course correction and ‘fixing’ the problem they created.
[quote comment="375656"][quote comment="375648"]where’d all the smart peeps like hammer, and toeknee, and pj, and boobola go. it seems that there are only three bloogers using four different names each…. that keep commenting about their own preschool comments. (self-supporting idiocy, supporting itz own idiocracy)[/quote]
Thanks for the shout-out, Cecile. I can’t speak for the Others (pun fully intended), but the reason I went into “radio silence” here was because, for the first time, I felt like defending my theory of what happened would simply sully the experience. I thought the ending was PERFECT and reading all the angry, miserable, complaining posts would serve no purpose. As I have said before, we always have a choice. I chose to keep my experience in the light and away from Smokey! LOL
That said, today I skimmed through the posts to see what the “regulars” were saying. There have been some very thoughtful, insightful, thought provoking posts, and plenty that weren’t. Complaining about what wasn’t, isn’t going to change anything. Nor is complaining about the negative posts, so I shall not.
Once again, I thank all those who contributed to my LOST experience over the years.
: ) P
ps – for those who are interested, there is a LOST Encyclopedia coming out in August (just in time for the DVD release, I believe). I doubt it will answer any questions, but I am sure it will be a fun addition to the LOST addict’s collection.[/quote]
I second that…thanks cecile.
[quote comment="375676"][quote comment="375675"]
That well may be.
But then you ought to assume that the shot of the island in the bottom of the ocean in the final season premiere was thoroughly a red herring, and a very cheap one.[/quote]
Actually no I don’t. I think the the shot of the island in the bottom of the ocean was what happened as a result of detonating the detonator which resulted in Desmond pulling the plug. Jack putting the plug in was course correction and ‘fixing’ the problem they created.[/quote]
Both the H Bomb and Desmond’s little island cork adventure cannot fit in the same explanation, except via the usual sacrificium intellectus.
[quote comment="375679"][quote comment="375676"][quote comment="375675"]
That well may be.
But then you ought to assume that the shot of the island in the bottom of the ocean in the final season premiere was thoroughly a red herring, and a very cheap one.[/quote]
Actually no I don’t. I think the the shot of the island in the bottom of the ocean was what happened as a result of detonating the detonator which resulted in Desmond pulling the plug. Jack putting the plug in was course correction and ‘fixing’ the problem they created.[/quote]
Both the H Bomb and Desmond’s little island cork adventure cannot fit in the same explanation, except via the usual sacrificium intellectus.[/quote]
I’ll ignore the insult.
Why not? Juliet set off the detonator which IMO have lead to all the events that culminated into Jack thinking he was right that Desmond needed to pull the plug. He was half correct, pulling the plug lead to MIB becoming human again so he could be killed, but also began the sinking process. Jack then sacrificed himself to put the plug back.
[quote comment="375673"][quote comment="375659"]First off – I don’t think anyone is dumb for not liking the finale or for not getting all of “your” questions answered. There were too many questions posed that were of varying degrees of importance to each individual viewer for everyone to be happy. However, EVERY poll I’ve seen has been at least 75% in favor of the way the show ended, so my guess is D&C should be happy with their results.
For those that want more mythology questions answered, let me ask you this. When you watch/read Harry Potter, do you expect JK Rowling to tell you how everyone got magical powers? When you watch/read Twilight or watch True Blood, do you want them to answer why they are vampires or werewolves? I’ll throw the midichlorians reference from Star Wars in too, is that something that needs to be explanied fully in order to enjoy the story or are they plot devices to advance the story along?
I will say there are still plot holes – I’m hoping they address the DHARMA food drops…where Walt went (I think he just grew faster than he wanted him too and couldn’t work him back in)…what their main plan for Eko was before the actor bailed on Hawaii (did Desmond take his storyline?).
These are some of the questions I hope they answer in the DVD. I think these are the types of things they will address…not necessarily exactly why the island acts like it does.[/quote]
I don’t think your comparisons are proportional.
Harold Bloom is on the money when he said that today’s readers of Harry Potter are tomorrow’s readers of Stephen King (please, do not read this as a compliment) and I almost feel insulted with the innuendos of the comparison.
And let’s not even go there insofar as your comparison of True Blood and Twilight (really?) with the Lost saga/mythology.
It is in fact because of my deep appreciation and admiration for the saga, the plot, the characters and mythology of Lost that I feel upset about the finale.
I did expect more from D&C and the remaining writers of the series. And part of the responsibility for the high expectations they harnessed is theirs, with their tons of literary references (Carlos Castaneda, Steinbeck, Wells, etc, etc) philosophy references (David Hume, John Lock, philosophical musings around themes such as fate vs. free will, or mystical experience vs. empirical experience).
And to drop most of that in the finale in exchange for an easy and pyrotechnic plot development a la Shayamalan/Ghost Whisperer was truly heartbreaking.
Pyrotechnics do not fit, in my opinion, with Lost’s narrative. And neither does the ridiculous political correctness of the Finale’s Church (really? a stain glass with a print from one of my World Religions classes’ slide? These things spoke to me as if they were more concerned with the reaction of the viewers than with the plot, the narrative or the saga.
And what is up with the obsession of pairing everyone up? Was I tuned in the finale of Days of Our Lives or Lost?
(And as my last 2 cents, just so I make myself clear, I would not like to be counted with those who just were fishing for answers. But nevertheless, yes, I do agree with them that some perennial questions, and not merely the equivalent of “What are the midichlorians?”, were left untouched)[/quote]
Love the bantor, even though we disagree.
My point with the comparisions are that there are things in every piece of fiction that do not need to be explained. For me, the island as a character (which it was) does not have to have all of it’s personality traits explained.
I’ve accepted them as “that’s the island” and have moved on to an outstanding piece of character driven fiction.
[quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
Not everything can be answered, I’m sure. I still have alot of questions too. But the questions you post here actually did seem to be answered to me.
Earlier on in the show, it was explained that there are sseveral places in the world that have special healing properties. One was in Australia, which is why Rose and Bernarde went there. The guy there explained that some of these ‘places’ heal some people, and other places heal other people. The Australian spot did not heal her but the island did. Not everyone was healed by the island.
Jack couldn’t be healed, even if plugging the hole brought back the power…because he had already passed it off to Hurley. Just like Jacob’s mother, she was mortal once she passed the power onto Jacob, which is when MIB killed her.
Jack woke up not by the hole…but by a fallen branch in the stream. I found this very similar to where Jacob found MIB’s body after he became black smoke. Surely Jack did not climb out of the hole, especially since the rope was gone. I think he flew out of the hole similar to MIB. However, the MIB was able to carry on as the black smoke because of vengeance,etc. Jack, however, was able to ‘let go’ and move on peacefully with no vengeance. Which is what we saw in the end.
I keep reading alot of perspectives about the shot featuring the island at the bottom of the ocean. So I figure I’d add my opinion.
It’s at the bottom of ocean in the FSW, which most of us agree is not reality. The FSW is the ‘place the Losties made to find each other’ in the afterlife. In the FSW, they are on the same flight…3 years ago (Sun is early preg and Claire is very preg). So the island is on bottom of the ocean in the Losties’ mind/heart/soul/dream/purgatory…whatever it is that each of us interpret the FSW as. I think too many people are over-thinking that shot. I don’t think it has to do with the bomb…and if it does, it’s only because the Losties wanted to believe it worked. The bottomline is that it really doesnt matter, because it wasn’t reality anyway. I think it was simply to show that the island couldn’t make the plane crash in the FSW and the Losties were able to live a segment of ‘afterlife’ as their TRUE SELF. (see my earlier theory).
[quote comment="375660"][quote comment="375658"]
I just don’t see what lesson Ben learned in all that, we still know he wants control of the island…poor Hugo, he’s a dead man.[/quote]
Pretty sure that was addressed in the end with “you were a good #1″ and “you were a good #2 too” comments. Evidently they got along just fine.[/quote]
I’m more than willing to accept that they were just fine, but given the character Ben was portrayed in the show to be, I’d say Hugo was constantly watching his back. Playing devil’s advocate, that could also just be a “pc” conversation given the circumstances. I mean he and Locke just had a cordial conversation too. There’s only so many minutes in the show.
Reason I harp on it is because it appears Ben is getting off scot free. He raised the child he abducted as his own. Ultimately sacrificing her instead of relinquishing control over the island, to the very man who was working FOR Jacob. Kills Locke. Kills JACOB of all people. Flips sides like he’s flipping burger patties, and when he finds out he’d be ruling over an island at the bottom of the ocean, he goes back to sorta being with the good guys (he didn’t step in to tell Desmond that helping Flocke would kill Rose & Bernard anyway).
@Toe that’s what I meant about us not knowing what’s on Ben’s mind. The quote with Ilana happened well before he flipped to join up with Flocke. If he was so remorseful about his antics, why is he all of sudden wanting to help Flocke when Flocke promised him control of the island? (Rhetorical).
This is from Big Hollywood today. I am pretty happy with the series and the final, it’s just a TV show. This guy cracked me up
Before Season 6, my wife was a die-hard “Lost” fan. For five years, during the appointed hour, I wasn’t allowed to so much as breathe. And heaven help me if I had to walk past the TV screen. Suddenly, my normally mild-mannered wife could hurl the remote with notable precision and ferocity.
lost
Five years of secret hatches. Ancient four-toed statues. Teleporting cabins. A string of lottery numbers popping up everywhere. Weird pseudo-science. Steampunk technology. The Dharma Initiative. (Remember that?) And what the heck was a polar bear doing on a tropical island?
“Lost” was a major brain tease, too. Naming so many of the characters after philosophers (Locke, Rousseau, Hume, etc.) was a stroke of genius – paper-thin genius, I later learned, as few of the characters had much to do with their namesakes. (My favorite character name was Charlotte Staples Lewis, i.e., C. S. Lewis – incidentally, his middle name really was Staples.)
As the show’s intellectual promise faded, my interest flagged, but it really took a tumble during Season 5, when time travel, the last refuge of a desperate sci-fi writer, reared its inevitable head.
Time travel is like plutonium: it must be handled with great care, and a little goes a very long way. But in Season 5, “Lost” got hooked big-time on time-travel, sometimes hitting that pipe a dozen times in a single episode.
The show also lost its way when it violated the first rule of castaway stories, aka the Gilligan’s Island principle: never leave the island. Once you leave the island, you’ve lowered the stakes and betrayed the premise.
In the case of “Lost,” first they’re trapped on the island, then they leave the island, then they come back, then they try to leave…. Sorry, I fell asleep while writing that. See what I mean?
Despite its frequent forays into pseudo-science, “Lost” is essentially a fantasy story. It may seem counterintuitive, but the more outlandish or surreal the events in a fantasy story, the more tightly you must stick to a set of rules. Even if they are rules you’ve made up, they’ve got to make sense.
Without a set of easily graspable rules and limitations on your characters’ abilities, your audience will think, anything is possible. And if anything is possible, nothing is at stake, in which case, nobody will care.
And that’s what happened. As things in “Lost” got wackier, you realized at some point, it just wasn’t worth the effort to keep up. Especially as it became clear there was no way they were going to find a logical explanation for all the crazy stuff.
The sheer volume of coincidences alone were improbable beyond belief. And so the promise of a non-metaphysical Unified Theory vanished (as the ending only confirmed).
My wife knew it too, deep down, but tried desperately to keep her disbelief suspended, like a kid who doesn’t want to stop believing in Santa Claus even as he watches Dad put the presents under the tree.
Echoing the faith versus reason theme that underpinned the series, she still had faith there was a reason behind it all. Plus, she thought Sawyer was cute.
And so I kept faith with her, keeping her company as she tuned in to the show, like going to church with your family even after you’ve become an atheist. But her faith in the show was fading, too.
The last straw was the Temple. We were promised that Season 6 would wrap up all the loose ends. But instead of answers, we were getting a whole new ball of frayed yarn to puzzle over.
Questions are fine; you don’t watch “Lost” if you’re allergic to ambiguity. But to introduce a brand-new setting and group of characters, just when we were expecting things to wind down?
large_lost-cabinfever
It raises the wrong kinds of questions. Such as: After years of exploring a small island, how did the Losties miss an entire temple complex?
At least the tension level in our household diminished during “Lost” viewings. We actually spoke to each other sometimes. And not just during the commercials.
But I knew a Rubicon had been crossed when, during the last 15 minutes of the penultimate episode last week, I asked my wife what she thought of some development and got no response. Turning, I could see that she was fast asleep.
Oh, sure, we still watched the final episode all the way through, for old time’s sake if nothing else. The wife insured her old enthusiasm with a pot of coffee.
As a friend said, he could have had a relationship over the past six years instead of all the time he’d devoted to “Lost.” He’d be damned if he was going to miss the finale.
And so, after six long seasons of crazy plot twists, maddening coincidences, and more red herrings than in the Soviet-era Baltic Sea, “Lost” finally lived up to one thing: its name.
“Lost’s” secret weapon is its soundtrack — the most manipulative one in television history. When that piano starts slowly plinking, it has a Pavlovian effect on your tear ducts.
Throw in slow-motion, a church, a funeral, a lot of hugging, a father-son reunion, long-lost loves embracing, even a baby, and the main character dying, and I started wondering, who’s chopping raw onions in our kitchen at this hour?
Many fans mistook that warm fuzzy feeling they got at the end of the series for answers. Not all, mind you. The clearer-eyed (or harder-hearted) of us saw through the ruse.
Funny how after so many allusions to science, pseudo- or otherwise, the series ultimately had no option left but to come down on the side of faith. There was no possible rational explanation for all that had transpired.
The creators had written themselves into a corner and they knew it. Reason failed them in the end. (As it may all, I’m afraid.) Faith is all they had left to give us.
I’m not unhappy with that result.
But what about that damn polar bear?
“Lost” fans (and critics), what did you think of the ending? Of the series?
Just for the record, I am not complaining b/c there were a lack of answers in the show. I love 2001 (the movie) and its ending gave no real answers. My complaint is that the ending was safe and not very creative in my opinion.
Those of you who are calling people stupid b/c they don’t like the ending can go suck some smokie. We all have different tastes. This blog is for discussion of the show both positive and negative.
[quote comment="375546"]Loved the finale, but still have questions:
- So, what about all the fake people in the FSW construct, like David? What happens to them? Does it matter?
- Widmore: good or bad?
- Who made the statue on top of Jacob’s house? (I know it doesn’t matter, but I wanna know!)
- What is Smokey’s name?
- WTF was Eliose Hawkins talking to Desmond about at the concert? I guess she knew they were all dead? So, what was her point? Why does she care? Writer head-fake?
- So, once ‘enlightened/compliant’ Desmond walked out of the electromagnetic machine, he knew everything would be OK because one day everyone would eventually die anyway and come together again in total happiness? Huh?
- Did the plane at the end make it to safety? Or, was that the plane wreckage shown at the very end from that plane? D’oh!
- If the plane did make it, does that mean Richard is still immortal? He wasn’t at the church at the end, so I guess so. Spin-off?
- Why was the sunken-island shown at the beginning of the season? Writer head-fake?[/quote]
Hope this helps…
–The “fake” people like David in the FSW don’t matter in the sense that they never really existed, but for Jack, David was a vehicle for him to work through his so-called daddy issues.
–Widmore is ambiguous, having both good and bad intentions. Jacob did want to bring him back to help save the Island, and he did want to use Desmond to help in saving the Island if necessary, but you also can’t ignore all the bad he did. Ben certainly didn’t at the end when he finally shot him dead, as final retribution for the freighter stuff/Keamy killing Alex.
–Yes, Eloise knows what is going on in the FSW. She knew what was going on when we first saw her in a previous episode in the FSW. She doesn’t want Daniel to be taken from her because she wants this time with him in this realm, since she obviously feels the loss of having shot him in the real Island timeline. Look at it like how Kate tells Jack in the FSW that she’s missed him so much. Presumably, Kate died long after Jack in real life, and this is her first time “seeing” Jack again after having been awakened to her real life memories. Eloise in the FSW has died, and this is her chance to be with Daniel again. And as long as Daniel is not awakened, she can continue to be with him. And Desmond tells Eloise that he won’t take Daniel, at least not yet.
–I do think that Desmond could see into the other side, and that is why he believed everything would turn out fine. We don’t know how long he lived in his real life, but it’s possible he was reunited with Penny and their son Charlie and lived out a long, normal life. And Jack’s heroic sacrifice made this possible (remember that Desmond wanted to put the cork back in the bottle, so to speak, but Jack told him that he had a family).
–We don’t know for sure what happened with the plane Lapidus flew off the Island, but in my opinion Lapidus was able to safely fly it off the Island and get it back to the “real world.” I say this because of Kate’s comment in the FSW to Jack…it is inferred that she has waited a VERY long time to meet up with him again, so she probably lived a very long life.
–The plane wreckage you saw at the end was nothing more than an ambiance shot to be shown during the credits that were rolling. Just like scenes you’d see in the DVD’s or something. The final scene of LOST is Jack’s eye closing. There should be no question by anybody about this.
–Richard is not immortal any longer. Whether you believe that this ended when Jacob died, or when Jack became the new protector, or whenever, the fact that he got a gray hair proves that he is now aging, like a normal human being, and this is what makes him say that he now wants to live–he is glad to be “normal” again.
–As for the Island being shown underwater at the beginning of the season in the FSW, I take that to mean that at the beginning of the FSW, they weren’t yet aware or englightened about their real life or their Island experience. And yes, that turned out to be a good head-fake by the writers. But I think it makes sense now, if my thoughts here are correct.
–As far as who made the statue and what Smokie’s real name is, this goes into my overall thinking that we don’t need to know what all the mysteries were. The Island lived on at the end of LOST, and so should some of the mysteries.
[quote comment="375689"]This is from Big Hollywood today. I am pretty happy with the series and the final, it’s just a TV show. This guy cracked me up
Before Season 6, my wife was a die-hard “Lost” fan. For five years, during the appointed hour, I wasn’t allowed to so much as breathe. And heaven help me if I had to walk past the TV screen. Suddenly, my normally mild-mannered wife could hurl the remote with notable precision and ferocity.
lost
I’m not unhappy with that result.
But what about that damn polar bear?
“Lost” fans (and critics), what did you think of the ending? Of the series?[/quote]
That is exactly how I feel. I loved the show and I still do, I am just mad at the creators for doing this ending. And all of these people that are coming with the “you are too stupid to understand” and throwing all these spiritual crap, or comparing the show with the Harry Potter…this is just stupid. There were a lot of plots that were started and not finished, and I am not talking about how the island could heal or what the smoke was. How about just simple logic/explanation to at least some of the events that occurred.
[quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
The Island was done with Jack, and that’s why he died. He served his purpose, he did what he had to do, and it was his time to die. As proof of this Island “being done with you” theory, and that the Island isn’t only about healing…Ben got cancer. Rose got cured of hers. This is what the Island wanted. Why? Who knows.
We don’t have to know everything. The beauty of this show was never in having everything answered. We got a wonderfully entertaining, touching, and thought-provoking television show and the mystery was part of what made it truly phenomenal. They were NEVER going to be able to give concrete answers to everything, just no way. With a show this mysterious, some of it SHOULD REMAIN A MYSTERY.
I know you can’t please everyone, but I have been very disappointed with how disappointed many people are. And disappointed in how people are confused or just flat-out wrong about basic stuff that went down.
[quote comment="375686"][quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
Not everything can be answered, I’m sure. I still have alot of questions too. But the questions you post here actually did seem to be answered to me.
Earlier on in the show, it was explained that there are sseveral places in the world that have special healing properties. One was in Australia, which is why Rose and Bernarde went there. The guy there explained that some of these ‘places’ heal some people, and other places heal other people. The Australian spot did not heal her but the island did. Not everyone was healed by the island.
Jack couldn’t be healed, even if plugging the hole brought back the power…because he had already passed it off to Hurley. Just like Jacob’s mother, she was mortal once she passed the power onto Jacob, which is when MIB killed her.
Jack woke up not by the hole…but by a fallen branch in the stream. I found this very similar to where Jacob found MIB’s body after he became black smoke. Surely Jack did not climb out of the hole, especially since the rope was gone. I think he flew out of the hole similar to MIB. However, the MIB was able to carry on as the black smoke because of vengeance,etc. Jack, however, was able to ‘let go’ and move on peacefully with no vengeance. Which is what we saw in the end.[/quote]
**********************************************
Thank You, I can actually accept this reasoning on the smoke monster and on Jack not getting his immortality back. I don’t know about the Rose thing though because the island has been shown to accelerate healing on everyone not an inch from death, but I guess Jack was just spent at that point. It’s still a mystery how the cave spit him out though, but that’s a mystery I can deal with, thanks
[quote comment="375693"][quote comment="375645"]Why couldn’t they have atleast explained what the smoke monster really was, why didn’t Jack become the smoke monster after being down there? You can all sit on D&C’s thrown and say we’re dumb for asking this or the answer is somewhere in the show, but interpretation can only go so far! If jacob and MIB’s power wears off when the plug is pulled then shouldn’t it come back after it’s reset, so jack should have been healed, he was right in the pool of life, yet he still dies? The island has been shown to accelerate healing in nearly every instance, yet Jack dies from that wound in the water that brings Sayid back from death? It’s stuff like this that just makes this show just so disingenuous, but we’re stupid and haters for thinking about these simple things the show showed earlier to be true. We’re just not smart enough to get it, right? I wish I could be a Lost apologist, God that would be so much fun to get enjoyment while ignoring and giving a free pass to so much.[/quote]
The Island was done with Jack, and that’s why he died. He served his purpose, he did what he had to do, and it was his time to die. As proof of this Island “being done with you” theory, and that the Island isn’t only about healing…Ben got cancer. Rose got cured of hers. This is what the Island wanted. Why? Who knows.
We don’t have to know everything. The beauty of this show was never in having everything answered. We got a wonderfully entertaining, touching, and thought-provoking television show and the mystery was part of what made it truly phenomenal. They were NEVER going to be able to give concrete answers to everything, just no way. With a show this mysterious, some of it SHOULD REMAIN A MYSTERY.
I know you can’t please everyone, but I have been very disappointed with how disappointed many people are. And disappointed in how people are confused or just flat-out wrong about basic stuff that went down.[/quote]
***************************************
So the island wasn’t done with Sayid? Just saying the pool of life should have been enough to save Jack, but I get it in a poetic sense.
[quote comment="375451"][quote comment="375450"]I get what Christian said about the people being in the church because their best times were with each other, but they threw in Penny I guess to appease the fans of her connection with Desmond, so why couldn’t they do the same with Locke and Helen? Didn’t everybody want to see him end up with her? From the very beginning when they showed him talking to that broad on the phone sex hotline to the very end, I wanted Locke to be happy in love with Helen. They teased us this season and in the end it was stolen away.[/quote]
Either way you look at it, a lot of the people in there didn’t make any sense. It was just a way for the writers to have a bunch of cast members in a happily ever after scene. Watching back earlier, it was kind of sad Locke didn’t have anybody. They should have given him an island “Love” in those six seasons. Or at least thrown Ben in there so they could be together lol.[/quote]
If you think about it though, Helen didn’t impact Locke’s life that significantly. After all their time together, he still couldn’t get over his issues and want to be fixed. He was still the “don’t tell me what I can’t do!!!!” kind of guy. It was being on the island, and with all those people, that allowed him to change. I think that’s why Helen wasn’t there.
^either that or she couldn’t take a Hawaiian trip since she’s neck-deep in voicing New Futurama eps as Lela…
I thought this was really funny and is how alot of us feel about the ending…ENJOY
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291
[quote comment="375673"][quote comment="375659"]First off – I don’t think anyone is dumb for not liking the finale or for not getting all of “your” questions answered. There were too many questions posed that were of varying degrees of importance to each individual viewer for everyone to be happy. However, EVERY poll I’ve seen has been at least 75% in favor of the way the show ended, so my guess is D&C should be happy with their results.
For those that want more mythology questions answered, let me ask you this. When you watch/read Harry Potter, do you expect JK Rowling to tell you how everyone got magical powers? When you watch/read Twilight or watch True Blood, do you want them to answer why they are vampires or werewolves? I’ll throw the midichlorians reference from Star Wars in too, is that something that needs to be explanied fully in order to enjoy the story or are they plot devices to advance the story along?
I will say there are still plot holes – I’m hoping they address the DHARMA food drops…where Walt went (I think he just grew faster than he wanted him too and couldn’t work him back in)…what their main plan for Eko was before the actor bailed on Hawaii (did Desmond take his storyline?).
These are some of the questions I hope they answer in the DVD. I think these are the types of things they will address…not necessarily exactly why the island acts like it does.[/quote]
I don’t think your comparisons are proportional.
Harold Bloom is on the money when he said that today’s readers of Harry Potter are tomorrow’s readers of Stephen King (please, do not read this as a compliment) and I almost feel insulted with the innuendos of the comparison.
And let’s not even go there insofar as your comparison of True Blood and Twilight (really?) with the Lost saga/mythology.
It is in fact because of my deep appreciation and admiration for the saga, the plot, the characters and mythology of Lost that I feel upset about the finale.
I did expect more from D&C and the remaining writers of the series. And part of the responsibility for the high expectations they harnessed is theirs, with their tons of literary references (Carlos Castaneda, Steinbeck, Wells, etc, etc) philosophy references (David Hume, John Lock, philosophical musings around themes such as fate vs. free will, or mystical experience vs. empirical experience).
And to drop most of that in the finale in exchange for an easy and pyrotechnic plot development a la Shayamalan/Ghost Whisperer was truly heartbreaking.
Pyrotechnics do not fit, in my opinion, with Lost’s narrative. And neither does the ridiculous political correctness of the Finale’s Church (really? a stain glass with a print from one of my World Religions classes’ slide? These things spoke to me as if they were more concerned with the reaction of the viewers than with the plot, the narrative or the saga.
And what is up with the obsession of pairing everyone up? Was I tuned in the finale of Days of Our Lives or Lost?
(And as my last 2 cents, just so I make myself clear, I would not like to be counted with those who just were fishing for answers. But nevertheless, yes, I do agree with them that some perennial questions, and not merely the equivalent of “What are the midichlorians?”, were left untouched)[/quote]
Felipe, the Church of Everything bothered me, too. For a show that spent so much of its time out of doors, the church ending felt off to me, and also because of the depiction of symbols of, what was it, 6-8?, of the thousands of religions out there –that was way too specific for me, no matter my personal faith.
Also, the fact that Christian was the ‘guide’–I mean, he did have an aura of a guy who had it going on spiritually–but his life BEFORE death was not sterling or filled with good choices. And I thought it odd that he’d be the one sending them on through to whereva. He must have had a good after/between/life of letting go of his own baggage.
It makes sense in terms of his relationship with Jack that they had a resolution of sorts. I’d've hoped it would be more along–yeah, sorry I was such a bad dad.
Like Ben to Locke–I’m sorry.
But let’s just let that go, too…
PS–I did like all the couple stuff. ; )
PPS–re: Harry Potter, hey, kids’re now reading, and maybe they wouldn’t have been w/o it
[quote comment="375697"]^either that or she couldn’t take a Hawaiian trip since she’s neck-deep in voicing New Futurama eps as Lela…[/quote]
Oh, awesome! Now there’s a show that makes sense. That had a great little ‘god’ episode, actually–when Bender was on his float through space and a civilization grows on him, and he tries not to be their god, and then tries to be their god, and it all goes to hell no matter what he does, and then he actually meets God –good stuff and funny.
[quote comment="375698"]I thought this was really funny and is how alot of us feel about the ending…ENJOY
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291/quote
Thank you, that was very funny! Whoever that kid is, whew! a speed-talker
[quote comment="375689"]This is from Big Hollywood today. I am pretty happy with the series and the final, it’s just a TV show. This guy cracked me up
…….
Five years of secret hatches. Ancient four-toed statues. Teleporting cabins. A string of lottery numbers popping up everywhere. Weird pseudo-science. Steampunk technology. The Dharma Initiative. (Remember that?) And what the heck was a polar bear doing on a tropical island?
“Lost” was a major brain tease, too. …
The creators had written themselves into a corner and they knew it. Reason failed them in the end. (As it may all, I’m afraid.) Faith is all they had left to give us.
I’m not unhappy with that result.
But what about that damn polar bear?
“Lost” fans (and critics), what did you think of the ending? Of the series?[/quote]
Thanks for sharing–this was funny, and spoke to a lot of what I’m feeling, too.
The cinematography and lighting in LOST were outstanding. Emmy material.
The finale confirms my suspicion that LOST broke new ground by using new script writers each week. D&C wrote the first few and last few episodes, but allowed guest writers to script the shows in between. Due to security concerns, they couldn’t tell the guest writers how the show would end. Those writers told a superb story, just not the same one that D&C were telling. Perhaps the guest writers will collaborate and release their ending someday.
[quote comment="375695"][quote comment="375693"][quote comment="375645"]diequote]
So the island wasn’t done with Sayid? Just saying the pool of life should have been enough to save Jack, but I get it in a poetic sense.[/quote]
The island was not done with Sayid, he had to obviously save them in the submarine.
HOWEVER, I dont believe the pool of water actually saved Sayid anyway. It was funny looking, even the ‘others’ agreed something was wrong with it. They said they pool did not work, and it was ten minutes after the pool, that Sayid came back to life. Even CPR didn’t work. I think Sayid coming back to life was more about the evil power that MIB had, because afterall, they said Sayid was now plagued by something evil. The same thing that was plaguing Claire, etc.
I think the answers about the island were addressed in the episode before the finale. The debates over the years on this blog and others has been deeply rooted in religion vs. science. Is the island a mystical place, or is it a scientific-based place? That gets answered.
We see Jacob and MIB as children, and see that there are religious/mythological properties to the island. Many of the episodes over the last few years showed evidence of this, AND showed evidence of science becoming an integral part. I think we got the main ‘answer’ during that episode. Everything might not be answered, but we at least know that the island WAS a mystical place afterall. Science just intensified things and made things more chaotic. Not all magic/mystery/mystic can be answered.
The story of the island could’ve been ended with the episode of Jacob and MIB as kids. We found out who the skeletons with the black/white stones are. We found out how Jacob and MIB got there. We found out that there IS a mystical power force on the island. You get the point. We wrapped up most of the island’s storyline during that episode.
I think the finale was more about giving us closure with the characters. The finale wasn’t about the island, it was about how the island AFFECTED the characters. We would have been PISSED if we never found out if they made it off the island, etc.
Too many people here focused on the finale for answers, they expected a big drastic ending. The ‘answer’ was NOT about the FSW…in fact the FSW and most of the finale (in my opinion) was like a bonus follow-up.
We got to see how most of the characters ended their time on the island. We got the chance to assume who went on to live full lives, and we get the opportunity to see that the people in the church valued their time on the island as the most important part of their lives.
This is important, because as the viewer, we are being acknowledged. Loyal fans of the show watched for years. We debated, researched, agonized, predicted, cried, laughed, and even yelled at the characters. We invested time…and enjoyed it. The island was important to us too, and so I feel it was a ‘bonus’ from D&C – to see some of them united at the end.
[quote comment="375699"][quote comment="375673"][quote comment="375659"]First off – I don’t think anyone is dumb for not liking the finale or for not getting all of “your” questions answered. There were too many questions posed that were of varying degrees of importance to each individual viewer for everyone to be happy. However, EVERY poll I’ve seen has been at least 75% in favor of the way the show ended, so my guess is D&C should be happy with their results.
For those that want more mythology questions answered, let me ask you this. When you watch/read Harry Potter, do you expect JK Rowling to tell you how everyone got magical powers? When you watch/read Twilight or watch True Blood, do you want them to answer why they are vampires or werewolves? I’ll throw the midichlorians reference from Star Wars in too, is that something that needs to be explanied fully in order to enjoy the story or are they plot devices to advance the story along?
I will say there are still plot holes – I’m hoping they address the DHARMA food drops…where Walt went (I think he just grew faster than he wanted him too and couldn’t work him back in)…what their main plan for Eko was before the actor bailed on Hawaii (did Desmond take his storyline?).
These are some of the questions I hope they answer in the DVD. I think these are the types of things they will address…not necessarily exactly why the island acts like it does.[/quote]
I don’t think your comparisons are proportional.
Harold Bloom is on the money when he said that today’s readers of Harry Potter are tomorrow’s readers of Stephen King (please, do not read this as a compliment) and I almost feel insulted with the innuendos of the comparison.
And let’s not even go there insofar as your comparison of True Blood and Twilight (really?) with the Lost saga/mythology.
It is in fact because of my deep appreciation and admiration for the saga, the plot, the characters and mythology of Lost that I feel upset about the finale.
I did expect more from D&C and the remaining writers of the series. And part of the responsibility for the high expectations they harnessed is theirs, with their tons of literary references (Carlos Castaneda, Steinbeck, Wells, etc, etc) philosophy references (David Hume, John Lock, philosophical musings around themes such as fate vs. free will, or mystical experience vs. empirical experience).
And to drop most of that in the finale in exchange for an easy and pyrotechnic plot development a la Shayamalan/Ghost Whisperer was truly heartbreaking.
Pyrotechnics do not fit, in my opinion, with Lost’s narrative. And neither does the ridiculous political correctness of the Finale’s Church (really? a stain glass with a print from one of my World Religions classes’ slide? These things spoke to me as if they were more concerned with the reaction of the viewers than with the plot, the narrative or the saga.
And what is up with the obsession of pairing everyone up? Was I tuned in the finale of Days of Our Lives or Lost?
(And as my last 2 cents, just so I make myself clear, I would not like to be counted with those who just were fishing for answers. But nevertheless, yes, I do agree with them that some perennial questions, and not merely the equivalent of “What are the midichlorians?”, were left untouched)[/quote]
Felipe, the Church of Everything bothered me, too. For a show that spent so much of its time out of doors, the church ending felt off to me, and also because of the depiction of symbols of, what was it, 6-8?, of the thousands of religions out there –that was way too specific for me, no matter my personal faith.
Also, the fact that Christian was the ‘guide’–I mean, he did have an aura of a guy who had it going on spiritually–but his life BEFORE death was not sterling or filled with good choices. And I thought it odd that he’d be the one sending them on through to whereva. He must have had a good after/between/life of letting go of his own baggage.
It makes sense in terms of his relationship with Jack that they had a resolution of sorts. I’d've hoped it would be more along–yeah, sorry I was such a bad dad.
Like Ben to Locke–I’m sorry.
But let’s just let that go, too…
PS–I did like all the couple stuff. ; )
PPS–re: Harry Potter, hey, kids’re now reading, and maybe they wouldn’t have been w/o it[/quote]
Liz,
What bothered me about the UNESCO church scene was that it clearly hinted public target research and the focus group kind of crap which are often responsible for shifting the outcome of TV series. The only thing missing from that scene to cater to all sensibilities would be K. D. Lang officiating the burial.
(And btw I was not kidding about the World Religions diagram of symbols slide)
Btw2: Of course chicks dug the pairing stuff.
[quote comment="375703"]The cinematography and lighting in LOST were outstanding. Emmy material.
The finale confirms my suspicion that LOST broke new ground by using new script writers each week. D&C wrote the first few and last few episodes, but allowed guest writers to script the shows in between. Due to security concerns, they couldn’t tell the guest writers how the show would end. Those writers told a superb story, just not the same one that D&C were telling. Perhaps the guest writers will collaborate and release their ending someday.[/quote]
Whoever had the brilliant idea of writing Christian Shephard as Melinda Gordon in the finale deserves a serious ass whooping.
[quote comment="375647"][quote comment="375643"][quote comment="375602"][quote comment="375598"]
[/quote]
This was a brilliant set up by the writers. We were lead to believe that Des “flashing” into FSW was the same as him “flashing” in “The Constant.” But in season 6 it was not. Des was getting flashes of the FSW but did NOT know that was not an alternate reality, Des as he did in the constant thought the placed he “flashed” to was “real” in a real time traveling way (similar to the flashes in the constant). Thus his line to Jack that nothing they do (on island time) matters was a product of this. Des thought that when he pulled that crapp out of the shinny pool he would “flash” to “reality” (the FSW) BUT when he did pull it out and nothing happened he was “lost.”
This explains why Jack tells Des after Des tells him nothing they do here matters, that EVERYTHING they do in the island matters as in defeating fLocke is a very REAL and ESSENTIAL thing to do. Des like us was tricked into believing the FSW was “real” when only the island time was real and the FSW a way for them to meet before heading into “the light that never goes out”[/quote]
I noticed that too. After Desmond’s little electromagnetism session with Widmore, he acted so happy and confident. He thought nothing of going with Sayid and wasn’t the least bit afraid of Flocke. He tried to convince Jack about going to the happy place too
He was so sure he’d just flash somewhere else while down in the light source. When it didn’t happen he was totally shocked.[/quote]
=============================
That’s what I said:
“What I find most interesting is that island Desmond lived as FSW Desmond , but after the effects of the electromagnetism wore off it appears they no longer shared the same mind anymore (Because Des thought unplugging the light pool would send him back there and nothing else mattered)…So I’m trying to figure out if FSW Des couldn’t share minds with island Des anymore how is it that FSW Des KNOW he was trying to get the others to escape purgatory rather than just remember there old self…”
This why everything that happened on the island was REAL because the island’s power and it’s ultimate location is a realm between life and death..That’s why Juliet said what she said, when she said it…The nuke created the tear and that made the ability to commune with the otherside more prevalent…Dez ultimately traveled to his deadzone self, got awoken a bit by Charlie, really got woke by Penny (to the point he passes out in FSW), but in-between island Dez losing that connection, FSW Dez was awoken to the FSW being purgatory, while the other Dez was just a passenger in his own body since he knew nothing of this…
Brilliant or yet another huge inconsistency…[/quote]
Sorry wingman didn’t mean to repeat what you said. Your explanation was much more detailed than mine anyway.
These are so awesome
http://www.indiegogo.com/BYE-BYE-LOST
[quote comment="375681"][quote comment="375679"][quote comment="375676"][quote comment="375675"]
[/quote]
[/quote]
Why not? Juliet set off the detonator which IMO have lead to all the events that culminated into Jack thinking he was right that Desmond needed to pull the plug. He was half correct, pulling the plug lead to MIB becoming human again so he could be killed, but also began the sinking process. Jack then sacrificed himself to put the plug back.[/quote]
I agree that Desmond pulling the plug resulted in MIB becoming human again.
A lot of people have said that nobody knew what the hell the island was or what was going on. Not Jacob, MIB, Mother, Richard, Ben, Jack, Hurley, the DI or anybody else. I disagree. Jacob knew Desmond was the only one to pull the plug or cork without dying and he knew what the “SURPRISE” result would be. Jacob just nudges things along, remember? He knew Jack would sacrifice all if need be. I’m sure he felt like Hurley when he said, “I believe in you dude.” Jack thought Desmond was some kind of weapon, which was correct, and that’s why Jacob brought him back but he didn’t know exactly what would happen. Jack assumed like we did that somehow Desmond was going to ruin MIB’s plan to destroy the island at the light source. It didn’t work out that way but Desmond still was a weapon just not in the way we expected. Jack told MIB that he was going to kill him and he asked Jack how he intended to do that. Jack said it was a surprise. MIB and Jack WERE surprised when it happened but Jacob was not. As soon as Jack bloodied MIB’s lip, I yelled, “SURPRISE”! We assume Jacob didn’t know how to kill MIB but we were wrong. Just because Jacob couldn’t kill his brother didn’t mean it couldn’t be done. Jack asked “Can we kill him?” Jacob said “I hope so because he’s going to try and kill you.” It seemed as if Jacob hoped Jack would figure something out because HE certainly didn’t know what to do. Turns out Jacob did know and he provided the tools for Jack to destroy the monster and save the island too.
LizS. I have to agree about the church. That was the weirdest “church” I’ve ever seen. All the different symbols made it feel very strange. A normal church or even a funeral parlor would have been better. It was nice to see Jack and Christian hug and express their love but Christian was a lousy father to Jack. He criticized and put down Jack since he was a child which caused him to doubt himself and feel he didn’t have what it takes. An apology and asking for forgiveness was in order. Even Ben said he was sorry and confessed his selfishness and jealousy to Locke. Christian should have been sitting outside on the bench too.
I think a few people have gotten into Locke’s hallucinogenic paste. Wow.
So, I’m just going to say a little more on WHY I felt shortchanged on the ending (Certainly, no one has to listen to me blather!)–even though there were parts I really found lovely and touching–
Already talked about Church of Everything, Christian the Guide to Eternity, the Plug at the Heart of the Island–
So, FSW.
First in our 6 year saga, we have the Flashback–a common storytelling device where we get to see how characters became the way they are–in our case, what led them to be “lost”.
Then we have Flash-Forward–where you were kinda tired of all the flashback stuff–yeah, yeah, we get it already, let’s move on–then, we find out we’re looking at their future off-island experiences resulting in a GASP, but hey, that’s cool! experience.
With reservations, because now you’re breaking that fourth wall more, and you’re never sure that FF is something the characters experience On Island (which they don’t, you have to believe, or why would they leave????) but is again a storytelling device, and engages the audience more deeply in your story structure game.
Which can be great, if it makes you curious and intrigued and hopeful.
Or just confusing if it hits you wrong.
OK, so those FB & FF were REAL–given the parameters of the LOST environment–things that legitimately happened or were going to happen In Their Lives.
So FSW happens–and there’s a lot of ‘say what?’ and I know I was not alone in my confusion, but given the FB & FF, I think I can be forgiven for thinking there was something REAL going on there in FSW!
And of course, you can make the case that Spiritual Stuff is more real than Physical Stuff, and I get that–but I also feel led on, because they spent soooo much time in FSW, and it was like the characters were better off, better people, made better choices, etc., and maybe they’d worked out stuff and figured out how to have relationships and be friends (except for Eyeliner Charlie, does anyone get why he was still a liquor-swilling, drug taking Lostie in the After/Between? Not seeing that one. He was my red herring of reality.) In, like, real world situations.
How was that going to be reconciled with current on-Island reality? Not a clue.
Enter the spirit realm.
I’m gonna say it, I was kinda disappointed. It wasn’t really that mystical, parts of the set up don’t make sense, and I don’t get why people had to be beaten into awakening. Kinda funny.
Maybe that disappointment is a fault of my expectations–which I conceed (concede?)
But maybe it’s also a result of slightly sloppy storytelling.
A tease that the Island is at the bottom of the Ocean on Ep 1–OMG, is MIB going to win, destroy the Island, and Give Our Characters What They Always Wanted like he promises over and over?? And yet they seem so much better??? Hmm?!?!?!
(Uh, no, MIB had no chance, really–2000 years of stupidity in the making)
Did the Bomb create an alternate reality, splintering off a dimension or something SF-y like that?
(Uh, no, as it turns out, that was just a story in the round–they went back in time to do the Incident which sent them forward in time to deal with the Incident and the Button, and yeah, that just feels a little flat now, too.)
Magic? The Island Powers rewarding our Losties for getting rid of that pollutant, Smokie?
(Uh, sorry! Really reaching there.)
So, I’m with Miraks (I think it was Miraks, sorry if I’m remembering wrong, it’s been a long blog) who wished they’d spent less time in FSW, not teasing me that there was something real about FSW (which, granted, it was ‘spiritually’ real)
“You can let go, now.”
Seriously, I think you guys are all pissing away the entire story by saying that the FSW was just “pretend”…did Carl and Cuse say that? I really dont think it was. It was real life after the bomb… the spiritual world didn’t come into existance until that last fifteen minutes, when Jack accepted the fact that he was dead. Jacks death is the most complex.
FSW explains alot of things really. How some characters all along KNEW what was happening, because they had already aknowldeged it. Some flashes may have just been illustrations of their past and future but other flashbacks always had a weird, warped feeling to them… to me THOSE were the ones that illustrated the islands effect on what becomes sideways lives. Think like Rose and Bernard were the first constants in the FSW. I don’t think that they were already dead, they just already could see what was happening, because they were already together on the plane. I think my biggest problem is that this wasnt properly defined… but the whole tone of the FSW completely changes after Jack completes his mission (which if you look deeply, was actually to KILL John Locke on the operating table)… case in point FSW was real, the charaters just had to die again in the FSW, to finalize their deaths in the first round. Otherwise, they just keep going around and around…
Look at it that way and I think you’ll see alot more.
I don’t have a problem with Christian being in the church. I think that was FOR Jack, and even Christian himself. It was the last thing Jack needed to rectify in his heart before ‘letting go’. He needed to make peace with his Dad.
Christian wasn’t really there for everyone else. It was the final thing keeping Jack from entering the church. And everyone in the church was ‘waiting’ for Jack. We see Christian go through the ‘gate’ but we don’t watch everyone jump up and follow HIM. They simply bask in the light. Christian was NO GUIDE, he simply made peace with his son and ‘let go’.
Christian shouldn’t have been sitting on the bench with Ben, unless HE himself believed he should. Ben was NOT prohibited from entering the church, he simply CHOSE not to enter yet because he felt he had more to do. Perhaps he plans to rectify things more with Danielle and her daughter so they may join him ‘in the church’.
[quote comment="375716"]
And of course, you can make the case that Spiritual Stuff is more real than Physical Stuff, and I get that–but I also feel led on, because they spent soooo much time in FSW, and it was like the characters were better off, better people, made better choices, etc., and maybe they’d worked out stuff and figured out how to have relationships and be friends (except for Eyeliner Charlie, does anyone get why he was still a liquor-swilling, drug taking Lostie in the After/Between? Not seeing that one. He was my red herring of reality.) In, like, real world situations.
[/quote]
I’ve been wondering about Charlie too. Man I wish he would have worn a wig at least and the eyeliner was awful. I couldn’t understand why he was just as bad or worse than he was before. He kicked the drug habit and became a really decent guy. He loved Claire and Aaron and gave his life for all of them to be rescued. What the heck happened to him? He was the first one that started remembering and “woke up” Desmond.
[quote comment="375230"]So the whole thing with the underwater island was a big red herring. We were supposed to believe the whole island sank when it was just the New Otherton part when Sawyer said “That can’t be good”.[/quote]
The island under water was part of the flashsideways storyline. Since the losties created this world to find each other they created it with the island sinking.
Yeah, I guess I just don’t see the need for the whole fsw world. Our characters went through a lot, we saw them become better people, we saw them grow, we saw them going through good times and bad times. BUT, they all were better people in the end than they started out as. Yes, even Locke- not Flocke mind you, but John Locke. So why throw in a magical, mystical, “spiritual” realm? Why was it introduced? To make more episodes?
Like I said before, to me the “perfect” ending would have been to see the story play out, with Losties dying, or getting of the island ala Lapidus and co.. Then, maybe a ffw, seeing old Kate/ Sawyer/ Lapidus, or grown up Aaron, or something similar, then them waking up on the island, Jack and co. saying we’ve been waiting for you, then walking into the light, playing a round of island golf, sitting on the beach,…
Corny? Yes, but better then a super p.c. church in the fsw world.
[quote comment="375717"]Seriously, I think you guys are all pissing away the entire story by saying that the FSW was just “pretend”…did Carl and Cuse say that? I really dont think it was. It was real life after the bomb… the spiritual world didn’t come into existance until that last fifteen minutes, when Jack accepted the fact that he was dead. Jacks death is the most complex.
FSW explains alot of things really. How some characters all along KNEW what was happening, because they had already aknowldeged it. Some flashes may have just been illustrations of their past and future but other flashbacks always had a weird, warped feeling to them… to me THOSE were the ones that illustrated the islands effect on what becomes sideways lives. Think like Rose and Bernard were the first constants in the FSW. I don’t think that they were already dead, they just already could see what was happening, because they were already together on the plane.
I think my biggest problem is that this wasnt properly defined… but the whole tone of the FSW completely changes after Jack completes his mission (which if you look deeply, was actually to KILL John Locke on the operating table)… case in point FSW was real, the charaters just had to die again in the FSW, to finalize their deaths in the first round. Otherwise, they just keep going around and around…
Look at it that way and I think you’ll see alot more.[/quote]
wow is there a flag for stupidity button on this thing?
[quote comment="375720"][quote comment="375716"]
And of course, you can make the case that Spiritual Stuff is more real than Physical Stuff, and I get that–but I also feel led on, because they spent soooo much time in FSW, and it was like the characters were better off, better people, made better choices, etc., and maybe they’d worked out stuff and figured out how to have relationships and be friends (except for Eyeliner Charlie, does anyone get why he was still a liquor-swilling, drug taking Lostie in the After/Between? Not seeing that one. He was my red herring of reality.) In, like, real world situations.
[/quote]
I’ve been wondering about Charlie too. Man I wish he would have worn a wig at least and the eyeliner was awful. I couldn’t understand why he was just as bad or worse than he was before. He kicked the drug habit and became a really decent guy. He loved Claire and Aaron and gave his life for all of them to be rescued. What the heck happened to him? He was the first one that started remembering and “woke up” Desmond.[/quote]
Simple. The FSW wasnt a spiritual world nor a perfect world. It was just another world.
[quote comment="375719"]I don’t have a problem with Christian being in the church. I think that was FOR Jack, and even Christian himself. It was the last thing Jack needed to rectify in his heart before ‘letting go’. He needed to make peace with his Dad.
Christian wasn’t really there for everyone else. It was the final thing keeping Jack from entering the church. And everyone in the church was ‘waiting’ for Jack. We see Christian go through the ‘gate’ but we don’t watch everyone jump up and follow HIM. They simply bask in the light. Christian was NO GUIDE, he simply made peace with his son and ‘let go’.
Christian shouldn’t have been sitting on the bench with Ben, unless HE himself believed he should. Ben was NOT prohibited from entering the church, he simply CHOSE not to enter yet because he felt he had more to do. Perhaps he plans to rectify things more with Danielle and her daughter so they may join him ‘in the church’.[/quote]
I agree Ben WAS allowed in the church and Christian was there JUST for Jack. I never said he was a Guide, someone else said that. I was being sarcastic about him sitting on the bench contemplating. Jack no longer needed his father to apologize to him because he got past that quite awhile ago on the island. You could tell how much he loved his father by his reaction when he identified his dad’s body in Sydney. I just feel it would have been much more meaningful if Christian would have said he was sorry and then tell Jack he loved him. He was too proud to make that phone call while he was in Sydney like he told Sawyer. At least Sawyer had a chance to tell Jack about meeting his dad in that bar and what Christian had said. Jack needed to hear something positive from his dad for a change. All children need a healthy mixture of encouragement, love and correction when they need it. We saw how different characters had issues because of their parents. Granted Christian was no where near as bad as Ben but Ben still humbly apologized to Locke.
[quote comment="375720"][quote comment="375716"]
And of course, you can make the case that Spiritual Stuff is more real than Physical Stuff, and I get that–but I also feel led on, because they spent soooo much time in FSW, and it was like the characters were better off, better people, made better choices, etc., and maybe they’d worked out stuff and figured out how to have relationships and be friends (except for Eyeliner Charlie, does anyone get why he was still a liquor-swilling, drug taking Lostie in the After/Between? Not seeing that one. He was my red herring of reality.) In, like, real world situations.
[/quote]
I’ve been wondering about Charlie too. Man I wish he would have worn a wig at least and the eyeliner was awful. I couldn’t understand why he was just as bad or worse than he was before. He kicked the drug habit and became a really decent guy. He loved Claire and Aaron and gave his life for all of them to be rescued. What the heck happened to him? He was the first one that started remembering and “woke up” Desmond.[/quote]
I really felt this was fitting. He was a decent guy in his mortal life, before he got into drugs. In fact, we saw him trying to straighten his brother’s life out before he became a drug addict. I think the point was, no matter how ‘good’ you are, the drugs will still affect you. He had no CHOICE but to get off the drugs on the island, he had to go through withdrawal, with Jack’s help. And Claire had no CHOICE but to become a mother on the island, there was no adoption options. BUT, they BOTH had the opportunity to make the CHOICE in the FSW. Claire chose to be a mother on her own, and Charlie saw Claire and Aaron and chose them over drugs.
[quote comment="375721"][quote comment="375230"]So the whole thing with the underwater island was a big red herring. We were supposed to believe the whole island sank when it was just the New Otherton part when Sawyer said “That can’t be good”.[/quote]
The island under water was part of the flashsideways storyline. Since the losties created this world to find each other they created it with the island sinking.[/quote]
To add to that, the island was buried in the ocean in a matter of speaking just as the LOSTIES buried their time on the island in their subconscious minds.
[quote comment="375727"][quote comment="375721"][quote comment="375230"]So the whole thing with the underwater island was a big red herring. We were supposed to believe the whole island sank when it was just the New Otherton part when Sawyer said “That can’t be good”.[/quote]
The island under water was part of the flashsideways storyline. Since the losties created this world to find each other they created it with the island sinking.[/quote]
To add to that, the island was buried in the ocean in a matter of speaking just as the LOSTIES buried their time on the island in their subconscious minds.[/quote]
I can buy that. Wasnt that underwater island like a computer graphic or a cartoon? Looked bogus.
[quote comment="375723"][quote comment="375717"]Look at it that way and I think you’ll see alot more.[/quote]
wow is there a flag for stupidity button on this thing?[/quote]
You’re a stupidity flag!
I’m saying that what you all are saying about the FSW being a “spiritual world” doesn’t fit. My explanation at least ties ends together. Other characters before were involved in other worlds… existants… Desmond crossed worlds numerous times, so did Eloise…
The final church scene is well and good as being the combined spiritual realization of the main characters, but to say that the entire FSW was all pretend doesnt make any sense at all… so Jack just invented the fact that he had a kid? He did have a kid in the next life, with Juliet,,, but THAT Jack wasnt the one that died at the end.
[quote comment="375729"][quote comment="375723"][quote comment="375717"]Look at it that way and I think you’ll see alot more.[/quote]
wow is there a flag for stupidity button on this thing?[/quote]
You’re a stupidity flag!
I’m saying that what you all are saying about the FSW being a “spiritual world” doesn’t fit. My explanation at least ties ends together. Other characters before were involved in other worlds… existants… Desmond crossed worlds numerous times, so did Eloise…
The final church scene is well and good as being the combined spiritual realization of the main characters, but to say that the entire FSW was all pretend doesnt make any sense at all… so Jack just invented the fact that he had a kid? He did have a kid in the next life, with Juliet,,, but THAT Jack wasnt the one that died at the end.[/quote]
No, there a not multiple versions of the same person. The sideways world was a world where they went when they died. Christian said they all died at different times. Why is it so hard to see this? Once Jack realized he was dead, they all could move on…is it really that complicated?
[quote comment="375729"][quote comment="375723"][quote comment="375717"]Look at it that way and I think you’ll see alot more.[/quote]
wow is there a flag for stupidity button on this thing?[/quote]
You’re a stupidity flag!
I’m saying that what you all are saying about the FSW being a “spiritual world” doesn’t fit. My explanation at least ties ends together. Other characters before were involved in other worlds… existants… Desmond crossed worlds numerous times, so did Eloise…
The final church scene is well and good as being the combined spiritual realization of the main characters, but to say that the entire FSW was all pretend doesnt make any sense at all… so Jack just invented the fact that he had a kid? He did have a kid in the next life, with Juliet,,, but THAT Jack wasnt the one that died at the end.[/quote]
Desmond did not cross worlds. He travelled in time. He changed things in the past so that Daniel could help them out. Eloise didn’t cross worlds either. She was simply enlightened to the existence of the island and its properties, so she knew when Desmond was trying to change events. It wasn’t about different existences, it was them traveling in time within their minds. The FSW was something completely different.
Apparently you didn’t fully comprehend and digest the final scenes, Wally P.
Don’t worry, you’re hardly alone in this. Unfortunately.
A friend of mine drew these amazing drawings to commemorate the end of LOST
PLEASE RATE THEM and LET ME KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS.
LIMITED EDITION “LOST” PRINTS CHEAP! CHEAP!
http://www.indiegogo.com/BYE-BYE-LOST
Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd!
[quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Another ridiculous theory. This is getting very frustrating. Even if Hugo lived for 5,000 years on the Island, he could appear in the FSW. They revealed the FSW to be a place where time is irrelevant. As Christian tells Jack, they are all dead, but some died before Jack, and some died long after Jack. When they died is irrelevant to how they are appearing in the FSW. We have no idea how long Hugo was the Island protector, but we can only assume that it was a good run, because he and Ben acknowledged that Hugo was a great #1 and Ben was a great #2.
Some of you are really having a difficult time with what are fairly simple explanations.
[quote comment="375731"][quote comment="375729"][quote comment="375723"]
Desmond did not cross worlds. He travelled in time. He changed things in the past so that Daniel could help them out. Eloise didn’t cross worlds either. She was simply enlightened to the existence of the island and its properties, so she knew when Desmond was trying to change events. It wasn’t about different existences, it was them traveling in time within their minds. The FSW was something completely different.[/quote]
*************
I agree with what you are saying (actually I agree with most of what you have been saying) but I dont think that the FSW was completely different. I think that the bomb did actually change the course of worldly events, and it wasnt the first time that something on the island changed worldy events. Otherwise how would Eloise have known that she could intercept Desmond at the Jewlry store. The journal? Fine, but what good was the journal, if the world that both of them were in at that point wasn’t real?
So many characters are left behind in the FSW that DO NOT move on, where did THEY go?
When Locke tells John that he doesn’t have a son, it is because he has crossed over and he thinks that Jack has too and the Jack he recognizes doesnt have a son. But the Jack standing there DOES. The way it meshes together at the end, is metaphorical, but I think what transpires in the FSW throughout the season has more to do with what eventually happens at the end on THE ISLAND, not the church.
[quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…
[quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
Of course you like it. Never mind it’s NOT right. This isn’t even about interpretation. They spelled it out for you.
Each day I’m reminded that the intelligence of the average person is frightening and that 1 out of 3 U.S. adults–adults–cannot correctly identify Canada on a World Map. The people on blogs saying that they were all dead from the initial plane crash, or that the plane wreckage shown in the final credits was actually the Ajira plane crashing and was part of the show, or that Ben killed Hugo, or that Jack really had a son named David in real life…these are the people that can’t identify Canada on a map.
Don’t worry, Darlton. The intelligent people get it.
[quote comment="375736"][quote comment="375731"][quote comment="375729"][quote comment="375723"]
*************
I agree with what you are saying (actually I agree with most of what you have been saying) but I dont think that the FSW was completely different. I think that the bomb did actually change the course of worldly events, and it wasnt the first time that something on the island changed worldy events. Otherwise how would Eloise have known that she could intercept Desmond at the Jewlry store. The journal? Fine, but what good was the journal, if the world that both of them were in at that point wasn’t real?
So many characters are left behind in the FSW that DO NOT move on, where did THEY go?
When Locke tells John that he doesn’t have a son, it is because he has crossed over and he thinks that Jack has too and the Jack he recognizes doesnt have a son. But the Jack standing there DOES.
The way it meshes together at the end, is metaphorical, but I think what transpires in the FSW throughout the season has more to do with what eventually happens at the end on THE ISLAND, not the church.[/quote]
Wally P – The world you are talking about with the journal, Eloise, Desmond, Daniel was not an alternate world, it was not the FSW. That was the real world, but back in time. Desmond was able to go into different times of his real life. Eloise had alot of knowledge of the island and its powers, so I believe she may have worked with Jacob. Jacob does afterall go to Widmore later on for help.
Regarding people left behind in the FSW. Some are not even real people, like Jack’s son. Some, like Ben, Eloise, etc, choose to stay in the FSW. Probably to have more time with some people and do more. (ever have a dream you really wanted to stay in?) Most will ‘let go’ in their own time, and with the people that mean the most to them. Ben would clearly prefer to be with his ‘daughter’ than with the Losties. Daniel will probably move on with Charlotte and his parents.
The FSW does not take place at the same time as the island, nor does it happen before or after. It has NO time, and no timeline. Maybe Kate was 102 when she finally died, she still ends up in the FSW because it is timeless. So Jack there has a son, but its more like a ‘dream’. When each Lostie gets the memories from real life, they realize this FSW is nothing more than a dream/afterlife. This is why Jack is confused about getting his appendix out, has blood on his neck several times, etc. Ever have the alarm clock become an actual sound within your dream? This is the best I can explain it.
[quote comment="375738"][quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
Of course you like it. Never mind it’s NOT right. This isn’t even about interpretation. They spelled it out for you.
Each day I’m reminded that the intelligence of the average person is frightening and that 1 out of 3 U.S. adults–adults–cannot correctly identify Canada on a World Map. The people on blogs saying that they were all dead from the initial plane crash, or that the plane wreckage shown in the final credits was actually the Ajira plane crashing and was part of the show, or that Ben killed Hugo, or that Jack really had a son named David in real life…these are the people that can’t identify Canada on a map.
Don’t worry, Darlton. The intelligent people get it.[/quote]
Come on now… Ok, ok. Jacks father was real. Not an illusion whatsoever. Everything he said was absolutely the truth… because thats what a show like LOST would do.
[quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
I had trouble with Hurley. I’m not entirely sure he WAS Jacob-like. I mean Jack says ‘youre like me now’. But Jack was mortal again already! So perhaps he simply tells Hurley that so he will be brave.
Or maybe Hurley IS immortal…but regardless…its not forever. It wasn’t forever for Jacob’s mom, Jacob, MIB, and Jack. Jacob says you do the job for as long as you can.
Anyway, I don’t believe that Ben killed Hurley, because then Hurley wouldn’t be so cool with Ben outside the church. And if Ben was apologizing to Locke for killing him and tried to explain he was jealous, you’d think he’d also apologize to Hurley.
[quote comment="375740"][quote comment="375738"][quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
Of course you like it. Never mind it’s NOT right. This isn’t even about interpretation. They spelled it out for you.
Each day I’m reminded that the intelligence of the average person is frightening and that 1 out of 3 U.S. adults–adults–cannot correctly identify Canada on a World Map. The people on blogs saying that they were all dead from the initial plane crash, or that the plane wreckage shown in the final credits was actually the Ajira plane crashing and was part of the show, or that Ben killed Hugo, or that Jack really had a son named David in real life…these are the people that can’t identify Canada on a map.
Don’t worry, Darlton. The intelligent people get it.[/quote]
Come on now… Ok, ok. Jacks father was real. Not an illusion whatsoever. Everything he said was absolutely the truth… because thats what a show like LOST would do.[/quote]
Yes, it was the truth, because of the tone of the finale. It’s clear that they went the route of having a touching, beautiful finale, and they wouldn’t have just lied to the audience at the VERY END without giving any indication that he might, in fact, be lying. That is just an absurd conclusion to draw. Sometimes, it really is what they say.
[quote comment="375738"][quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
Of course you like it. Never mind it’s NOT right. This isn’t even about interpretation. They spelled it out for you.
Each day I’m reminded that the intelligence of the average person is frightening and that 1 out of 3 U.S. adults–adults–cannot correctly identify Canada on a World Map. The people on blogs saying that they were all dead from the initial plane crash, or that the plane wreckage shown in the final credits was actually the Ajira plane crashing and was part of the show, or that Ben killed Hugo, or that Jack really had a son named David in real life…these are the people that can’t identify Canada on a map.
Don’t worry, Darlton. The intelligent people get it.[/quote]
What is this “Canada” that you speak?
I’ve heard another sign of intelligence is recognizing when something is tongue-in-cheek…whatever the heck that means…I think it means scrabble.
[quote comment="375735"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Another ridiculous theory. This is getting very frustrating. Even if Hugo lived for 5,000 years on the Island, he could appear in the FSW. They revealed the FSW to be a place where time is irrelevant. As Christian tells Jack, they are all dead, but some died before Jack, and some died long after Jack. When they died is irrelevant to how they are appearing in the FSW. We have no idea how long Hugo was the Island protector, but we can only assume that it was a good run, because he and Ben acknowledged that Hugo was a great #1 and Ben was a great #2.
Some of you are really having a difficult time with what are fairly simple explanations.[/quote]
They will “yeah but” you until you pull your hair out. Just sit back and laugh at the crazy theories at this point.
[quote comment="375738"][quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
Of course you like it. Never mind it’s NOT right. This isn’t even about interpretation. They spelled it out for you.
Each day I’m reminded that the intelligence of the average person is frightening and that 1 out of 3 U.S. adults–adults–cannot correctly identify Canada on a World Map. The people on blogs saying that they were all dead from the initial plane crash, or that the plane wreckage shown in the final credits was actually the Ajira plane crashing and was part of the show, or that Ben killed Hugo, or that Jack really had a son named David in real life…these are the people that can’t identify Canada on a map.
Don’t worry, Darlton. The intelligent people get it.[/quote]
It also explains why we have the POTUS that we do.
[quote comment="375739"][quote comment="375736"][quote comment="375731"][quote comment="375729"][quote comment="375723"]
*************
I agree with what you are saying (actually I agree with most of what you have been saying) but I dont think that the FSW was completely different. I think that the bomb did actually change the course of worldly events, and it wasnt the first time that something on the island changed worldy events. Otherwise how would Eloise have known that she could intercept Desmond at the Jewlry store. The journal? Fine, but what good was the journal, if the world that both of them were in at that point wasn’t real?
So many characters are left behind in the FSW that DO NOT move on, where did THEY go?
When Locke tells John that he doesn’t have a son, it is because he has crossed over and he thinks that Jack has too and the Jack he recognizes doesnt have a son. But the Jack standing there DOES.
The way it meshes together at the end, is metaphorical, but I think what transpires in the FSW throughout the season has more to do with what eventually happens at the end on THE ISLAND, not the church.[/quote]
Wally P – The world you are talking about with the journal, Eloise, Desmond, Daniel was not an alternate world, it was not the FSW. That was the real world, but back in time. Desmond was able to go into different times of his real life. Eloise had alot of knowledge of the island and its powers, so I believe she may have worked with Jacob. Jacob does afterall go to Widmore later on for help.
Regarding people left behind in the FSW. Some are not even real people, like Jack’s son. Some, like Ben, Eloise, etc, choose to stay in the FSW. Probably to have more time with some people and do more. (ever have a dream you really wanted to stay in?) Most will ‘let go’ in their own time, and with the people that mean the most to them. Ben would clearly prefer to be with his ‘daughter’ than with the Losties. Daniel will probably move on with Charlotte and his parents.
The FSW does not take place at the same time as the island, nor does it happen before or after. It has NO time, and no timeline. Maybe Kate was 102 when she finally died, she still ends up in the FSW because it is timeless. So Jack there has a son, but its more like a ‘dream’. When each Lostie gets the memories from real life, they realize this FSW is nothing more than a dream/afterlife. This is why Jack is confused about getting his appendix out, has blood on his neck several times, etc. Ever have the alarm clock become an actual sound within your dream? This is the best I can explain it.[/quote]
I like the way you put it… again, I agree with a lot of it. In fact I want to say that Ben will reunite with Alex,,, but does he really deserve to? Not if the only way he ever was a good father to him was in a dream. Makes more sense to me that Ben would stay on the island. Maybe Hurley stayed for 5000 years as leader, but who is he the leader of? And what happens when he leaves the island and whatnot? How does he leave the island? Etc. Etc. Does he find Candidates?
Think for a second, that instead of the CHURCH being the answer to the FSW, that instead the FSW is the answer to questions I just asked… and the church is something completely different.
So much grey! For the record I thought the ending was very peaceful and I liked it. Held that with me for about three days… but now I feel the need to dig deeper for answers. Just how I do.
This is repeating what many of us have said over and over. It’s been established that in the FSW they are DEAD. The first clue in the finale was Jack holding a head X-ray right in front of his face. You could see Jack’s face through the X-ray of a skull. Skull=death.
Charlie made the choice himself to give up the drugs when he was on the island. Locke made Charlie give his stash to him but he said he’d let Charlie ask for his drugs back 3 times. The third time he’d give them back to him. Charlie did ask 3 times and then chose to destroy them himself. Locke did not make him do it. Later he had his stash of Virgin Mary statues from the Beechcraft but didn’t use any of the drugs inside. Eventually he threw the statues into the ocean. So Charlie wasn’t FORCED to give them up he chose to.
I can see Charlie being in the band with his brother and both of them being drug free in the FSW because this is how he wanted his life to be when he was alive. If you remember, he told Liam it was all about the music.
The ending was all well and good, but so many loose ends. Who was the Darna initiative? What about ‘the others’? etc etc etc.
The show definitely had it’s moments though.
In the FSW some things are the same and other parts are how they WANTED things to be.
I don’t mean to be repetitive but Jack was still a spinal surgeon, went through a divorce but was on good terms with his ex-wife Juliet, someone he had interacted with on the island but not married to in his real life. He still had a passion to fix people but he wasn’t obsessed with fixing people to prove anything to himself or to his father. He no longer had major daddy issues and he had a son he probably always hoped to have one day.
Sawyer was now a cop instead of becoming a con man but still hunting down Cooper for the death of his parents. He wasn’t a bitter or mean person but happy.
Locke always wanted his father’s love in his real life. Here we see Locke being responsible for his own paralysis and his dad’s vegetative state. In his real life Helen left him because of his obsession to be loved by his scum bag father. Here Helen is devoted to him and his dad.
Daniel was the musician he always wanted to be since he was a child. Eloise forced him to be a physicist instead in his real life.
Desmond had the respect he always wanted from Charles Widmore and a great job. The opposite of his real life.
Miles had a respectable job helping people as a cop instead of helping himself to the money of grieving people by using his gift to swindle them. We see no evidence of his ability here.
Hurley is very lucky, not haunted by the numbers and not institutionalized as in his real life. No talking to dead people either.
Kate is still a fugitive but probably innocent like she said. Guilty of murder, arson, robbery and more in her real life.
Sayid is in love with Nadia but because of his guilt he feels unworthy of her and doesn’t pursue a relationship. He searched and longed for her and they got together in his real life. He still kills but it was to protect and help his brother.
Sun and Jin aren’t inhibited as in their real life and no fertility problems. Still very much in love.
Boone and Shannon often fought but they were there for each other when either of them was in trouble. Boone being accepting of Shannon and Sayid’s relationship, not true in real life. Didn’t see enough of Shannon to tell if she was still self-centered and a pain in the butt. Perhaps not.
Ben’s relationship with his father is the opposite AND he’s a cool, unselfish, caring person. He still has a connection with Alex but now it’s mutual.
Claire is the same but at least she’s not crazy.
Ana Lucia seems the same as do Keamy, Patchy and Omar. Eloise is still cranky so I guess some things never change.
[quote comment="375749"]The ending was all well and good, but so many loose ends. Who was the Darna initiative? What about ‘the others’? etc etc etc.
The show definitely had it’s moments though.[/quote]
Not trying to be mean but did you watch all 6 seasons? They were thoroughly explained.
Read this. It should tell you what you don’t know.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dharma
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Others
I’m taking one more stab at this, then I’ll drop it. The whole point of dropping the bomb was to alter the past, and therefore change the future. What everyone is saying, is that dropping the bomb didn’t change the past but rather created a world where they could go after they moved on… how does that even jive?
The FSW is what become of the world outside of the island. It is 2004 in the FSW and it is 2007 on the island. Whenever we see that losties “remember” in the FSW it is the same as flashing through time in a sense. FSW is the result of the bomb.
The Church and everything after Jack fights Flocke is Jack being dead but not knowing it…and then knowing it. The church is the place where the losties created to move on, and that is what Jack ultimately “remembers” after he finally dies. And it looks like that takes a while.
I just don’t believe that saying the entire FSW is “made up” really works. Jack has a son. David. To say that he is imaginary is ridiculous in a story like this. Even Hurleys imaginary friend wasnt actually imaginary (he was the ghost of Libbys dead husband)… Once again Locke saying “you dont have a son” was just to illustrate that Locke “remembered” and was no longer being held back by Flocke-man.
I can go even deeper because a lot of things make a hell of a lot more sense to me this way then the way that Mr. Intelligent Stupidity Flag thinks to seem is the be all end all of all explanations.
For instance, Hurley in the FSW. Is he dead the whole time? Looked like through most of the episode he was playing the same role that Jacob did in the final episode of season 5 only he was doing it his own way. Just me? I had thought all season that Jacob traveled outside the island through mind/time travel, I still think that is a pretty major point, and also that when you actually let go, you are released from the islands grip… and therefore you get the last fifteen minutes of the show.
But I cannot say that FSW is just a made up world or a dream without saying that the entire series was a made up world or dream. And I am not ready to believe that.
Wally P – We can’t say it is 2004 in the FSW, because we were told there is no real time. We are not supposed to assume everything is the exact timing either, because although Claire is big pregnant, Sun is already pregnant on the plane in the FSW…and in mortal life she conceived on the island, after the plane crashed.
David is not real. If he were, by your theory…then both Juliet AND Jack both CHOOSE to ‘let go’ and leave him behind and move on with other people (Sawyer and Kate).
I don’t even think the whole ‘lifespan’ of FSW is remembered by the characters. Jack doesn’t really remember being 7 and having appendectomy. I think they are sort of floating along in the FSW.
What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?
[quote comment="375753"]Wally P – We can’t say it is 2004 in the FSW, because we were told there is no real time. We are not supposed to assume everything is the exact timing either, because although Claire is big pregnant, Sun is already pregnant on the plane in the FSW…and in mortal life she conceived on the island, after the plane crashed.
David is not real. If he were, by your theory…then both Juliet AND Jack both CHOOSE to ‘let go’ and leave him behind and move on with other people (Sawyer and Kate).
I don’t even think the whole ‘lifespan’ of FSW is remembered by the characters. Jack doesn’t really remember being 7 and having appendectomy. I think they are sort of floating along in the FSW.[/quote]
Alright… truth be told my brain is fried at this point…I suppose I should just let go. oh Lost I will truly miss times like these… I hope theres a never ending lost blog in my afterlife (and possibly a seven or eight season series in my FSW)
[quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.
[quote comment="375514"]Revised my earlier final thoughts after watching the ep again…
The flash-sideways were sort of a purgatory for lost and tortured souls…As is the life of ghosts, they don’t remember shit and walk throughout their dream-world just living…
It took dead Desmond traveling to this otherside to help kick-start the awakening of these souls to move-on together by remembering their tortured experiences together…If they hadn’t they probably would have just been trapped in that state…Like a cycle…
Showing Jack at the end in the same state to witch he came to the island and flashed to the island illustrates this cycle…
Given the island’s power to transcend time you can be already dead in off-island reality yet your afterlife can already be taking place (Hence Desmond being able to commune with his dead self)…So the island is a place where you can connect to the otherside because of the “special Properties”…
You gotta kinda think that since the island is the mid-point of these realities, when exposed to these phenomenons you (mentally) can exhibit a commune with your otherself…The whispers get trapped on this place because the island shares a part of this “Dead-Reality”…Juliet detonating the bomb so close to the island’s power source in retrospect appears to have created a tear between the afterlife and current island time sentencing our Losties there…
This whole show was basically about some LOST souls finding a way to break the cycle and “Move-on”….What we saw (As in the the ENTIRE effin show!!) was the storyline of their journey that would make-up the things that awoke them in the sideways…
Please someone discuss so I can be at peace with this explanation…[/quote]
Ok, this I can jive with. So can we at least say that David is actually alive in the FSW, however he is a “not-supposed-to-be” baby, like Jion Kwon or Man In Black? Maybe Hurley recruited him?>
E agora, o que fazer na vida pós lost? Vi um especial neste mesmo site que vou colcar um link a seguir, que me animou a dar uma chance a Supernatural! Bom, voltando a Lost, gostei disso aqui! Espero que curtam tambem: http://spacejunk.com.br/series/artigos/106-critica-lost-o-fim
wally p
I don’t think it ever detonated in the first place. I think they just flashed back to the correct time line.
The bomb did not create it. The FSW was a “place” (I use that term lightly) they created together in their minds in order for them to meet up after all of them died and move on together to Heaven. Kind of like attending a wedding or a high school reunion and everyone meets in the lobby so they can go in as a group. You get the idea.
They died at different times, some sooner and some later than Jack like Christian said. We don’t know the order in which some of them died but none of that matters. This is how I imagine it is according to the show. When people are about to die, they say they saw their life flash before their eyes. That’s not a long time. Take Jack for instance. We saw a lot happen in his FSW but all of that and more could have happened in the blink of an eye. So no matter how many years apart they died, they’re still there at the same time after their awakening. Jack got there and woke up last because he was “The one who will save us all”. (The answer to “What stands in the shadow of the statue?” The question Ilana asked last season if you remember.) Jack wasn’t the last to die but he was the hero that averted a catastrophe.
I wouldn’t say they are flashing through time, just remembering their experiences together on the island.
You’re right about the Church. Jack dies when we see him in the bamboo forest and he closes his eyes.
Sorry but the whole FSW is “made up”. David is probably the son Jack always wished he would have some day. Locke telling Jack “You don’t have a son” was because Locke finally remembered and he was trying to help Jack remember. It took being run over by a car and major surgery to wake John up. So John told Jack something shocking to help him remember.
Hurley’s friend Dave is imaginary, a hallucination or a dead person Hurley can talk to. He wasn’t Libby’s dead husband. Dave on the island was MIB manifesting himself as Dave. If you remember he tried to get Hurley to jump off the cliff.
Hurley is dead the whole time in FSW. He was helping his friends wake up NOT looking for Candidates. His time as Protector was over. We weren’t shown how Jacob left the island but I doubt it was time travel.
The rest of the show WAS NOT a dream or made up. Only the FSW. Say it wally. “I want to believe.”
I for one don’t believe this was all seen from Jack’s perspective. We saw flashbacks to all the character’s lives and saw what they experienced. Jack wasn’t present in every circumstance. They all went through their own trials and dilemmas.
Jack and Locke butt heads almost from the time they arrived on the island so I thought the Protector Jack and Flocke fight was cool. They looked like two bucks or rams locking horns fighting to the death. I found it interesting that Flocke stabbed Jack right where his appendix scar would have been. Foreshadowing maybe?
[quote comment="375741"][quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
I had trouble with Hurley. I’m not entirely sure he WAS Jacob-like. I mean Jack says ‘youre like me now’. But Jack was mortal again already! So perhaps he simply tells Hurley that so he will be brave.
Or maybe Hurley IS immortal…but regardless…its not forever. It wasn’t forever for Jacob’s mom, Jacob, MIB, and Jack. Jacob says you do the job for as long as you can.
Anyway, I don’t believe that Ben killed Hurley, because then Hurley wouldn’t be so cool with Ben outside the church. And if Ben was apologizing to Locke for killing him and tried to explain he was jealous, you’d think he’d also apologize to Hurley.[/quote]
Jack was human just like Jacob and Mother were human. Protectors have certain powers but they are still human. That’s why all three of them died after being stabbed. They weren’t immortal just able to live a very long time. Richard was human too, he just didn’t age while Jacob was alive.
No way! Ben didn’t kill Hurley. Where did that idea come from?
Uh, Christian is not Smokey. IT wouldn’t be in the LOSTIES FSW. Smoke is in the water now.
[quote comment="375760"]I for one don’t believe this was all seen from Jack’s perspective. We saw flashbacks to all the character’s lives and saw what they experienced. Jack wasn’t present in every circumstance. They all went through their own trials and dilemmas.
Jack and Locke butt heads almost from the time they arrived on the island so I thought the Protector Jack and Flocke fight was cool. They looked like two bucks or rams locking horns fighting to the death. I found it interesting that Flocke stabbed Jack right where his appendix scar would have been. Foreshadowing maybe?[/quote]
This was all about Jack’s Redemption”. The other cast member were the people in Jack’s life that helped him reach his destiny. This, I know to be true because I heard from the mouth of Jack or Matthew Fox. He was asked this question on the Jimmy Kimmell show. He asked Matthew Fox that exact question, Fox’s reply was Yes, it was all about Jack.
So, this is why I KNOW it was all about Jack. Sorry..
Why does it matter so much who was or wasn’t at the Church? Maybe some of the actors and actresses weren’t available to be in the finale or D&C didn’t feel the need to have them there. If everyone was there it would have been very crowded. The core group was gathered and that’s all that mattered. Maybe the other groups like Miles, Lapidus, Richard and Ilana showed up at a different Church, weren’t ready yet or already went to their final destination.
[quote comment="375756"][quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.[/quote]
Watch it again… Aaron is in the Church scene, everyone in the church is dead and ready to move on. If the light outside the church was “heaven”, that’s were Aaron went…
[quote comment="375762"][quote comment="375760"]I don’t think everything was seen from Jack’s perspective. We saw flashbacks to all the character’s lives and saw what they experienced. Jack wasn’t present in every circumstance. They all went through their own trials and dilemmas.
Jack and Locke butt heads almost from the time they arrived on the island so I thought the Protector Jack and Flocke fight was cool. They looked like two bucks or rams locking horns fighting to the death. I found it interesting that Flocke stabbed Jack right where his appendix scar would have been. Foreshadowing maybe?[/quote]
This was all about Jack’s Redemption”. The other cast member were the people in Jack’s life that helped him reach his destiny. This, I know to be true because I heard from the mouth of Jack or Matthew Fox. He was asked this question on the Jimmy Kimmell show. He asked Matthew Fox that exact question, Fox’s reply was Yes, it was all about Jack.
So, this is why I KNOW it was all about Jack. Sorry..[/quote]
Experiences, point of view and beliefs. I’m talking about the complete story. All 6 seasons were seen from the perspective of various characters. The Finale episode is clearly Jack centric. He is the hero as I just posted(post# 750)and I’ve written before that Jack has always been the hero from day one.
I watched the Jimmy Kimmel special too. Jimmy told Matthew Fox that he believed life was a test and we were watching Jack’s test and that he believed Jack passed the test. (That was obvious) Jimmy said the other characters had their own stories and their own tests, but this show was all about Jack’s test. I didn’t hear anyone say the show was all about Jack’s redemption and the other cast members were the people in Jack’s life that helped him reach his destiny.
Well… finally I watched the lost final and I can’t tell you how I feel.
On the one hand it was a great final coz of the “open to interpret” ending but on the other hand… the “hollywood-light” what they use when they don’t know what to do
by Olaf
[quote comment="375430"][quote comment="375429"][quote comment="375112"]so no walt or michael… and where was frank and alpert and miles in the end church part?[/quote]
They didn’t die in the first crash. They all died then.[/quote]
____________________________________
NO ONE DIED IN THE FIRST CRASH!! well, except for all the people who did (the non-main characters i.e. the burning of the fusalage, the federal marshall, etc…)[/quote]
______
You’re right. At first I thought that they all died but don’t anymore.
What do you think the purpose is/was of having Jack have a son in the flash sideways?
Do you think it was for Jack to reconcile in his mind if he ever was a father he wouldn’t be the kind of father that his father was to him?
[quote comment="375768"]What do you think the purpose is/was of having Jack have a son in the flash sideways?
Do you think it was for Jack to reconcile in his mind if he ever was a father he wouldn’t be the kind of father that his father was to him?[/quote]
Something like that. It was a vehicle for him to work through his daddy issues, as I posted before. IMO, anyway.
It’s awesome!
[quote comment="375722"]Yeah, I guess I just don’t see the need for the whole fsw world. Our characters went through a lot, we saw them become better people, we saw them grow, we saw them going through good times and bad times. BUT, they all were better people in the end than they started out as. Yes, even Locke- not Flocke mind you, but John Locke. So why throw in a magical, mystical, “spiritual” realm? Why was it introduced? To make more episodes?
Like I said before, to me the “perfect” ending would have been to see the story play out, with Losties dying, or getting of the island ala Lapidus and co.. Then, maybe a ffw, seeing old Kate/ Sawyer/ Lapidus, or grown up Aaron, or something similar, then them waking up on the island, Jack and co. saying we’ve been waiting for you, then walking into the light, playing a round of island golf, sitting on the beach,…
Corny? Yes, but better then a super p.c. church in the fsw world.[/quote]
Agree!
[quote comment="375761"] [quote comment="375741"][quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]Aha! Proof that Ben killed Hugo…how does Hugo end up at the purgatory church to talk with Ben, if he is Jacob-like and living forever on the island?
Ben is a basterd![/quote]
Actually I like that! Might make sense… what if you have all been tricked? What if Christian Sheppard really is STILL the SMOKE?
I defended my previous posts about a post ago, but it all came out in grey. I must only exist for real in the Sideways that you all invented in your minds…[/quote]
Or maybe Hurley IS immortal…but regardless…its not forever. It wasn’t forever for Jacob’s mom, Jacob, MIB, and Jack. Jacob says you do the job for as long as you can.
Anyway, I don’t believe that Ben killed Hurley, because then Hurley wouldn’t be so cool with Ben outside the church. And if Ben was apologizing to Locke for killing him and tried to explain he was jealous, you’d think he’d also apologize to Hurley.[/quote]
Jack was human just like Jacob and Mother were human. Protectors have certain powers but they are still human. That’s why all three of them died after being stabbed. They weren’t immortal just able to live a very long time. Richard was human too, he just didn’t age while Jacob was alive.
No way! Ben didn’t kill Hurley. Where did that idea come from?
[/quote]
Well the idea of Ben murdering Hurley started as a tongue-in-cheek (I looked it up, I “think” I’m using it correctly) jab at Ben…simply because Ben is evil. Rather than go over all of the craziness that he did/caused we’ll keep it simple.
All Ben appeared to ever care about, was control of the island. Being that close to having control, I just suggested, because Ben is evil, that he would not be able to contain himself.
Let’s put all of the “definitive” plot issues you’ve derived aside, because at the end of the day it is simply your opinion of what happened, so there is no need to discuss the merits of it, (very nice job btw). It’d be like arguing over religion or introducing politics into this blog, and we know intelligent people wouldn’t do that, because we’re just talking about a fantasy show.
We know Protectors live a long time UNLESS they are killed. One of the sharp bloggers here suggested that “Protectors have certain powers but they are still human.”
Who is the person who would have an inkling of a desire to kill Hurley? Could it be the person with passports, and money, and ways to get on and off the island, who wanted to control the island right up until he realized it would be at the bottom of the ocean if Flocke got his way?
(In my Dana Carvey Church Lady voice) “Could it beeeee, Benjamin?”
As far as being cool with Hurley, who knows what goes on in Ben’s warped mind. I’m sure one can think of theories as to how he could murder him, or hell have someone else murder him (he was a pretty good manipulator) absolving himself (in his mind) of any need to apologize.
My point is…BEN IS AN EVIL BASTARD!
First, what’s up with the name calling? Be nice, or I’ll sic Smokie on you. Oh, wait, can’t–he’s dead. Well, we’ll have to resort to honor and good manners.
We can have different opinions/interpretations without insults, can’t we?
re: FSW–I did think it could possibly be some kind of created world as a result of the bomb, but the last bit of the finale put the kibosh on that.
And David’s existence or lack there-of, seems mean to me now. Sorry! It just does. Yeah, yeah, great, Jack gets a chance to be a father to an imaginary teen, to be the father he always wanted his father to be to him
So what was David to Juliet, then?
So they ‘shared’ an imaginary child? Weird.
It becomes problematical.
OK, then who in the FSW was real, and who was ‘there’ as a service to ‘help’ the REAL spirits (LOL) to work out their ‘letting go’ process?
Helen, Anthony Cooper? Probably not real? Well, we know if there’s a hell, AC is going to it and has probably already tried to con the Big Man Down Under into lesser charges or something.
So, Keamy, Mikhail, The Bad Guys Sayid offed? I doubt they were invited to the After Party.
Dogen? Dogen’s son? Ben’s principal dude? All those random others in the crowd of concert goers? What about Doc Arzt? Was he in the Go crowd?
So, Widmore, was he real, or did Des create him? I guess Eloise was–what about the caterers?
Eh, it’s the Spirit World-you can do what you want.
to Belle re: Charlie–
Yes, I agree!!! You are right–Charlie did so much work and had come to a good place in his character development by the time he died–why turn him back in FSW? When he died, he thought he’d be saving Claire and Aaron–why is he so bitter and self-destructive in FSW?
Oh, I know, because they wrote him out of the show in the first place!
[quote comment="375745"][quote comment="375738"][quote comment="375737"][quote comment="375734"]
Each day I’m reminded that the intelligence of the average person is frightening and that 1 out of 3 U.S. adults–adults–cannot correctly identify Canada on a World Map. The people on blogs saying that they were all dead from the initial plane crash, or that the plane wreckage shown in the final credits was actually the Ajira plane crashing and was part of the show, or that Ben killed Hugo, or that Jack really had a son named David in real life…these are the people that can’t identify Canada on a map.
Don’t worry, Darlton. The intelligent people get it.[/quote]
It also explains why we have the POTUS that we do.[/quote]
JERK!
This blog has no room for politics. Concentrating on the show is complicated enough and as is obvious, rather polarizing too. Save these opinions for another time and place.
1) If the Island and all that took place were “real,” then the writers need to explain:
a)where the island is
b)what was Dharma; how did people orignally find the island and how were supplies able to get to the island; why did Desmond have to enter the numbers – why every 108 minutes and why wasn’t that automated; why couldn’t women give birth if they got pregnant on the island; where did the polar bear come from; how did the towers keep out the smoke monster; why the need for all of the hatches
c)How did Mother come to the island
d)who built the statue and the lighthouse
e)where did the people in the temple come from and why did they follow the Asian guy
2) If all this is just purgatory (a temporary place to atone for sins on the Earth plane before continuing on to heaven); none of the above needs to be explained.
3) Ergo: nothing was explained, therefore the whole six seasons were about purgatory and redemption.
4) The prima facie evidence is that all the children (except Walt and THAT needs explaining, too) disappeared shortly after arriving on the island. Children are considered innocent and they can bypass purgatory. It also explains why no babies could be conceived and born on the island. Souls are created in heaven, not purgatory. Since people in purgatory don’t always know they are in purgatory; the pregnant women’s efforts were fruitless.
Check out a free webcast in tribute to 6 great years of LOST. The webcast is free to stream live without any banner adds. The tribute is an ongoing series that includes expanded lost universe Fan Fiction and music featured in the series. We will also visit the Lighthouse, Have a run-in with smokey and much more
The Webcast starts at 5/28/10 at 10:00 PM EST and will run for three hours
stream it at http://www.wgdr.org
and press the “listen live” button
theres hi-speed and dial options
Looking at it I have to say that FSW (real or whatever you want to believe…) is the most important aspect of the series in it’s whole. In fact, this episode that we saw at the end, I’d bet was probably the episode that the ABC execs initially paid for…on paper anyway, six or however many years ago.
Based on Aaron being a baby at the end, I’d have to say that whatever we saw of Kate and the three year old Aaron or FF is open to be called “made up” just as much as FSW. So go ahead and see what you want to see…
For all the peeps who still think the ending was contrived, or safe, I’ll tell you what my cuz said to me. It wasnt the ending we wanted, it was the ending we needed… I can dig that. I watched it again for a third time (hooked) there could have been no better way to end it I’d say.
I can clearly see interpreting it as Ben killed Hurley, just as clear as I could see it be that Ben reconciled with Alex, or redeemed. Both answers work for me! Its not like the Sopranos where they tried to get all philisophical at the end of a mafia show (lame!) This show held your brain in the exact spot it should be from show one to show last. The five minute music montage that ends the show… perfect. Brilliant even… you want your mind to be screwed, go back and watch seasons 1 through 5,,, they are still great, and still unspoiled by stupid “answers…”
[quote comment="375764"][quote comment="375756"][quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.[/quote]
Watch it again… Aaron is in the Church scene, everyone in the church is dead and ready to move on. If the light outside the church was “heaven”, that’s were Aaron went…[/quote]
Yes, but I was answering his specific question…he asked what happened to 3 year old Aaron.
[quote comment="375777"]1) If the Island and all that took place were “real,” then the writers need to explain:
a)where the island is
b)what was Dharma; how did people orignally find the island and how were supplies able to get to the island; why did Desmond have to enter the numbers – why every 108 minutes and why wasn’t that automated; why couldn’t women give birth if they got pregnant on the island; where did the polar bear come from; how did the towers keep out the smoke monster; why the need for all of the hatches
c)How did Mother come to the island
d)who built the statue and the lighthouse
e)where did the people in the temple come from and why did they follow the Asian guy
[/quote]
“Michigan Geezer”? Is that you Hammer?
Some of these questions have been answered elsewhere in the comments – e.g., who built the statue. (do a search for statue on this page and you’ll find an answer). For others, not every answer is going to be clearly spelled out on the show – you have to put pieces together to come up with some answers. Anyways, here are a few thoughts:
Where is the island? Does it really matter? Actually, we’ve been told that it’s somewhere in the South Pacific, correct? And also we’ve been told it moves.
what was Dharma; … how were supplies able to get to the island;? Supplies – via sub. What was Dharma – it’s been explained in part on the show, and to a greater extent in one of the between-seasons on-line alternate reality games – see Lostpedia for info.
how did [Dharma] people orignally find the island?
How did Mother come to the island?
where did the people in the temple come from
We were shown how some people got to the island – Jacob’s birth mother (Claudia) & her people, Richard & the Black Rock, Rousseau & her crew, Desmond, OA815, Ajira flight 316. In some cases Jacob brought these people to the island. In other cases they may have accidentally stumbled upon it. So I think it’s safe to say that anyone who was brought to the island (Dharma people, Temple people, Mother, etc) was brought there in one of these manners. Perhaps Mother brought Claudia to the island, just like Jacob brought people to the island. Similarly, perhaps someone years ago brought Mother to the island. Remember what Mother said, something like every answer I give you will lead to another question. TPTB chose not to give explanations for how each and every person got to the island, partly because it would detract from the story they wanted to tell, and partly because each answer would beget another question.
why did they follow the Asian guy They were following Jacob. Dogen was one of Jacob’s “stand-ins” , like Richard or Ben.
[quote comment="375756"][quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.[/quote]
Then who/what was the baby in the end scene, should not that have been an at least 3 year old child?
[quote comment="375770"][quote comment="375768"]What do you think the purpose is/was of having Jack have a son in the flash sideways?
Do you think it was for Jack to reconcile in his mind if he ever was a father he wouldn’t be the kind of father that his father was to him?[/quote]
Something like that. It was a vehicle for him to work through his daddy issues, as I posted before. IMO, anyway.[/quote]
Thanks for replying. I tried to search the posts to see if anyone else had posted about it but was having “technical difficulties.”
[quote comment="375782"][quote comment="375756"][quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.[/quote]
Then who/what was the baby in the end scene, should not that have been an at least 3 year old child?[/quote]
****************
The end scene was part of FSW which was NOT a real reality…therefore was not real.
(Just guessing here since this would be left up to our imagination) Claire got off the island with the others on the plane and hopefully she, with the help of Kate, raised Aaron!
FSW was like a safe meeting place that somehow these characters created as a final meeting place for each other. In this place we got a glimpse of an alternate life for some of these characters…but I do think what they realized with their awakenings was that their lives were exactly what they were suppose to be and that they were happy to have lived and be together again.
Aaraon lived in the first timeline we were introduced to and he was a part of the FSW for Claire…
[quote comment="375784"][quote comment="375782"][quote comment="375756"][quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.[/quote]
Then who/what was the baby in the end scene, should not that have been an at least 3 year old child?[/quote]
****************
The end scene was part of FSW which was NOT a real reality…therefore was not real.
(Just guessing here since this would be left up to our imagination) Claire got off the island with the others on the plane and hopefully she, with the help of Kate, raised Aaron!
FSW was like a safe meeting place that somehow these characters created as a final meeting place for each other. In this place we got a glimpse of an alternate life for some of these characters…but I do think what they realized with their awakenings was that their lives were exactly what they were suppose to be and that they were happy to have lived and be together again.
Aaraon lived in the first timeline we were introduced to and he was a part of the FSW for Claire…[/quote]
Thanks, works for me
geez.. its been days… i guess i can let go now… but heck, i would’ve voted Hurley for president! ftw dude!
I loved the finale. I do, however, have some questions……….If going into the light meant something worse than death (we saw that it turned MIB into the smoke monster) then how come nothing happened to Jack? I get why Desmond wasn’t effected by the light but not Jack (and while I am on the subject) How the hell did Jack get out of there? And, finally, What happened to Desmond? Did he live on the island with Hurley and Ben or somehow was able to get outta there and return to the real world to be with Penny and Charlie?
[quote comment="375656"][quote comment="375648"]where’d all the smart peeps like hammer, and toeknee, and pj, and boobola go. it seems that there are only three bloogers using four different names each…. that keep commenting about their own preschool comments. (self-supporting idiocy, supporting itz own idiocracy)[/quote]
Thanks for the shout-out, Cecile. I can’t speak for the Others (pun fully intended), but the reason I went into “radio silence” here was because, for the first time, I felt like defending my theory of what happened would simply sully the experience. I thought the ending was PERFECT and reading all the angry, miserable, complaining posts would serve no purpose. As I have said before, we always have a choice. I chose to keep my experience in the light and away from Smokey! LOL
That said, today I skimmed through the posts to see what the “regulars” were saying. There have been some very thoughtful, insightful, thought provoking posts, and plenty that weren’t. Complaining about what wasn’t, isn’t going to change anything. Nor is complaining about the negative posts, so I shall not.
Once again, I thank all those who contributed to my LOST experience over the years.
: ) P
[/quote]
You have to come baaaaaack!
I felt the same as you. There were sooo many negative posts for “Across the Sea” and “The End” that it was really depressing. I loved both episodes along with the entire show.
Thankfully things are calming down now.
A list of holes (in no chronological sequence):
1-Why did MIB turn to smoke when others didn’t?
2-What’s the point of showing skeletons around the light source? Where there other smokies out there?
3-MIB really did nothing wrong! He killed the woman who killed his mother and his entire village! He was not a villain just an unlucky victim!
4-If crazy mom made it so that the brothers cannot hurt each other, how come Jacob destroyed MIB’s soul?
5-What’s the whole point of showing Jacob as a young boy then back into his own body?
6-What happened to Illana when Jacob went to see her at the hospital? What was the point of showing her so ellaboitly bandaged?
7-Afterall what was the significance of Walt?
8-Why or how could Walt manifest himself on the island after he left? He was not a body that MIB could inhabit?
9-What was the whole point of Dogan and his sidekick? They had no control over smokey, couldn’t keep him out and didn’t really know how to kill him!
10-What are the ancient Egyptian references. The kids, their mom and crazy woman were all locking civilization agnostic and mumbling latin anyways.
11-What were the shots given to Claire for anyways?
12-So who brought Sayeed back to life? If MIB could do it at will couldn’t he have resurrected any number of characters?
13-What was the loophole? Richard Alpert tried to stab Jacob before! Ben showing up with a knife was it?
14-Why couldn’t MIB kill all of the candidates in person? He needed a bomb in a submarine to do it?
15-Why couldn’t Michael die off the island? He was no longer or ever a candidate?
16-Why Boone, why now? He was insignificant to begin with!!!
….. And list goes on and on and on
LOST is one of the best tv shows ever! Totally! I just loved it that they were reunited for a happy ending. It wasn’t a disappointment. To me, that makes all the questions no longer important. It simply wouldn’t be lost if everything was answered. The most important thing about the show is the characters we’ve come to love.
Bromsbie, First four for now… starting with 2: those skeletons are the reason that you should never go into the light… the other reason that you should never go into the light I think, is Daniel Faraday. Look at what happens to him in the FSW. He never moves on.
Question 1:I still say that the smoke monster wasnt Jacobs brother. Even though Jacob said it was his fault that his brother was this way, that was just to show that clearly Jacob misunderstood a lot of things, and probably made a bunch of leadersip mistakes.
question 3 is not a question.
skip to question 4: based on what I just said, I say that the fake mom summoned the smoke (who is the islands oldest inhabitant, and very misunderstood) to kill all the people. Summoning the smoke resulted in fake mom having to sacrifice her son… the smoke would have got him eventually, the way it happened just caused Jacob to believe that it was HIS fault, and based on smokeys ability to create complex lies and steal peoples images, also caused Jacob to believe that it was his brother who WAS the smoke. but he wasnt.
[quote comment="375788"]I loved the finale. I do, however, have some questions……….If going into the light meant something worse than death (we saw that it turned MIB into the smoke monster) then how come nothing happened to Jack? I get why Desmond wasn’t effected by the light but not Jack (and while I am on the subject) How the hell did Jack get out of there? And, finally, What happened to Desmond? Did he live on the island with Hurley and Ben or somehow was able to get outta there and return to the real world to be with Penny and Charlie?[/quote]
Yes yes yes yes YES!!! Good questions all!
footnote:
Daniel Faraday never moves on. He was saying in a previous episode that he could remember everything, his notes, his complex equations etc. He saw Charlotte and was connected to his other side… YET, when he touched Charlottes hand, there was NO connection. She like, half smiled at him and walked away. To me this proves that Daniel would be always trapped in a loop, due to his time travelling experiments. When we saw him in the real world before, (losties real world) it was just a different flash sideways for Daniel Faraday, and he had already been around a loop over and over before. This is why you never go down into the light.
[quote comment="375788"]I loved the finale. I do, however, have some questions……….If going into the light meant something worse than death (we saw that it turned MIB into the smoke monster) then how come nothing happened to Jack? I get why Desmond wasn’t effected by the light but not Jack (and while I am on the subject) How the hell did Jack get out of there? And, finally, What happened to Desmond? Did he live on the island with Hurley and Ben or somehow was able to get outta there and return to the real world to be with Penny and Charlie?[/quote]
This is my theory. I think Jack didn’t turn into black smoke because of his intentions for going down into the light source (or heart of the island). Jack was there to protect it and stop the catastrophe that would have happened. The catastrophe being the light (the source of life) going out would cause the light to go out everywhere. Death for all mankind. If Smokey can scan people, their memories and thoughts, why can’t the heart of the island also read and know what’s in a person’s heart and mind? The island knew (I sound like John Locke) why Jack was there and his purpose was for good and his intentions were pure. I feel that the island was a character in the show. The island had a heart and John said he looked into the eye of the island and so on. Considering where Jack’s body wound up, he was ejected from the cave the same way MIB’s body was. Desmond wanted to put the cork back in and he wouldn’t have died as we know. Jack told him to go be with his family. Jack had a job to finish. After Hurley and Ben pulled Desmond out, Ben said to Hurley, “I think Desmond is going to be OK.” Ben told Hurley to do what he does best, help people and you could start by helping Desmond get home etc.. So whatever rules Hurley made as the new Protector, he was able to get Desmond home.
Duke: RE: How in the Hell did Jack get out of there.
He woke up on a rock. I’m not sure but is that the same rock that he landed on after flashing out of the Ajira plane? He had to walk from that rock to the spot where he woke up at the beggining. Perhaps he being able to live had something to do with the blue shirt he was wearing? Or the fact that he defeated the smoke monster… I would like to see some more banter on this question actually…
[quote comment="375795"][quote comment="375788"]I loved the finale. I do, however, have some questions……….If going into the light meant something worse than death (we saw that it turned MIB into the smoke monster) then how come nothing happened to Jack? I get why Desmond wasn’t effected by the light but not Jack (and while I am on the subject) How the hell did Jack get out of there? And, finally, What happened to Desmond? Did he live on the island with Hurley and Ben or somehow was able to get outta there and return to the real world to be with Penny and Charlie?[/quote]
This is my theory. I think Jack didn’t turn into black smoke because of his intentions for going down into the light source (or heart of the island). Jack was there to protect it and stop the catastrophe that would have happened. The catastrophe being the light (the source of life) going out would cause the light to go out everywhere. Death for all mankind. If Smokey can scan people, their memories and thoughts, why can’t the heart of the island also read and know what’s in a person’s heart and mind? The island knew (I sound like John Locke) why Jack was there and his purpose was for good and his intentions were pure. I feel that the island was a character in the show. The island had a heart and John said he looked into the eye of the island and so on. Considering where Jack’s body wound up, he was ejected from the cave the same way MIB’s body was. Desmond wanted to put the cork back in and he wouldn’t have died as we know. Jack told him to go be with his family. Jack had a job to finish. After Hurley and Ben pulled Desmond out, Ben said to Hurley, “I think Desmond is going to be OK.” Ben told Hurley to do what he does best, help people and you could start by helping Desmond get home etc.. So whatever rules Hurley made as the new Protector, he was able to get Desmond home.[/quote]
I think you got it… the light is psycho reactive, so it responds to emotions/intentions… definately. As far as the smoke goes, I explained what I think of the smoke and the light a few posts back…. and thats ALL I’m sayin about it ….
[quote comment="375794"]footnote:
Daniel Faraday never moves on. He was saying in a previous episode that he could remember everything, his notes, his complex equations etc. He saw Charlotte and was connected to his other side… YET, when he touched Charlottes hand, there was NO connection. She like, half smiled at him and walked away. To me this proves that Daniel would be always trapped in a loop, due to his time travelling experiments. When we saw him in the real world before, (losties real world) it was just a different flash sideways for Daniel Faraday, and he had already been around a loop over and over before.
This is why you never go down into the light.[/quote]
I perceived it like this. Daniel was dead too in the FSW and wasn’t doomed to be trapped in a loop. Faraday was talking to Desmond and trying to wake HIM up. Daniel was starting to remember things. He said he saw a beautiful red haired woman with really blue eyes at the museum. He looked at her and felt like he had loved her all along. One night he woke up and wrote down several advanced quantum physics equations and formulas in his journal. Interesting he still had a journal.
He had no idea what they meant since he was a musician. He asks Desmond, “What if this isn’t what their lives were supposed to be? What if they had some other life and for some reason they changed it?” Daniel tells him he doesn’t want to set off a nuclear bomb, but that he thinks he already did. He then tells Desmond that Penny is his half-sister and tells him where to find her. To me, Charlotte had that look of deja vu, do I know you? Something was starting to awaken in her too by meeting Daniel.
That’s the reason Eloise was so mad at Desmond when he started asking about Penny, her step daughter. She wanted Desmond to leave things alone and stop looking for her. She certainly didn’t want to lose Daniel her son. At the concert she sat at Desmond’s table and tearfully asked him if he was going to take her son (to the moving on party at the Church) and he said no.
Famous Last Words.
Whutch U Convulsing About Willis?
– Gary Coleman. 28 May 2010
[quote comment="375796"]Duke: RE: How in the Hell did Jack get out of there.
He woke up on a rock. I’m not sure but is that the same rock that he landed on after flashing out of the Ajira plane? He had to walk from that rock to the spot where he woke up at the beggining. Perhaps he being able to live had something to do with the blue shirt he was wearing? Or the fact that he defeated the smoke monster… I would like to see some more banter on this question actually…[/quote]
Haha
Jack wasn’t wearing a “red shirt” but he died anyway.
That was a different rock. They flashed off the plane and wound up at the place with a little waterfall and a pool of water. Right after that Jin pulled up in the Dharma van.
Thousands of years ago people came there or were brought there, maybe even before the Egyptians, (writing was more akin to Cuneiform) and made that cork and whatever other little structures we saw. I think the “island” knew they were there to protect the source from people that would try to exploit it or put out the light. Ancient civilizations worshiped everything in nature. This must have been the most sacred place of all, the source of all life.
[quote comment="375782"][quote comment="375756"][quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.[/quote]
Then who/what was the baby in the end scene, should not that have been an at least 3 year old child?[/quote]
No, because then Kate/Frank/Claire would be other ages too. They could’ve been any age when they passed away.
It is assumed by most that you are represented as ageless in the afterlife.
[quote comment="375790"]A list of holes (in no chronological sequence):
1-Why did MIB turn to smoke when others didn’t?
2-What’s the point of showing skeletons around the light source? Where there other smokies out there?
3-MIB really did nothing wrong! He killed the woman who killed his mother and his entire village! He was not a villain just an unlucky victim!
4-If crazy mom made it so that the brothers cannot hurt each other, how come Jacob destroyed MIB’s soul?
5-What’s the whole point of showing Jacob as a young boy then back into his own body?
6-What happened to Illana when Jacob went to see her at the hospital? What was the point of showing her so ellaboitly bandaged?
7-Afterall what was the significance of Walt?
8-Why or how could Walt manifest himself on the island after he left? He was not a body that MIB could inhabit?
9-What was the whole point of Dogan and his sidekick? They had no control over smokey, couldn’t keep him out and didn’t really know how to kill him!
10-What are the ancient Egyptian references. The kids, their mom and crazy woman were all locking civilization agnostic and mumbling latin anyways.
11-What were the shots given to Claire for anyways?
12-So who brought Sayeed back to life? If MIB could do it at will couldn’t he have resurrected any number of characters?
13-What was the loophole? Richard Alpert tried to stab Jacob before! Ben showing up with a knife was it?
14-Why couldn’t MIB kill all of the candidates in person? He needed a bomb in a submarine to do it?
15-Why couldn’t Michael die off the island? He was no longer or ever a candidate?
16-Why Boone, why now? He was insignificant to begin with!!!
….. And list goes on and on and on[/quote]
I’ll give it a shot:
1-He was an evil/angry soul, and I believe he was dead when he went floated down to the light. The light gave some sort of half-life to him…ejected his body, and let his angry soul live on as the smoke. Sounds like something ‘worse to death’ to me.
2-They were alive going down there, and died. I think MIB was DEAD going down in there, so something different happened, maybe?
3-I felt similar, BUT, he became angry soul and as smokie did bad things…went from victim to badguy.
4-Maybe MIB ended his veil of protection when he killed the crazy-mom.
5-Jacob can show up in any form he chooses, it was more effective for him to sometimes show up as a child. Certainly trying to freak out MIB.
6-I think we’re supposed to just know that Jacob knew alot of things, he clearly KNEW she was hurt somehow.
7-The island is a special spiritual place, and we see that it affects people in different ways. The ‘Others’ that were interested in Walt’s abilities were scientists who were trying to figure out the island’s properties too. So since they didn’t know all the answers yet, we sure don’t. But suffice to say, Walt was a tool to get us thinking about the special properties.
8-Maybe Walt was actually Walt. We know that he was ‘special’. The scientists specifically asked Michael, ‘is he ever in places, he shouldn’t be’. So seems to me, they knew he had capability of being somewhere he shouldn’t.
9-Well they didn’t have the technology it seemed. They didn’t have the pylons, only ashes/dust. I think they only knew the powers of the island, and could tap into them with their pool. I think Jacob didn’t think MIB would ever successfully kill him. So he left Dogen and his other people unguarded, unintentionally.
10-This island has been there for a long time. It’s safe to say that it was there long before those inhabitants. People came from all over to try to harness the powers of the island. There are still mysteries surrounding the pyramids and other Egyptian relics in REAL LIFE, so when those are answered, then we can answer the ones in the show.
11-I think it was a guise. I think they wanted to test Claire. They were scientists afterall.
12-How do we know he didn’t? How many times was something like ‘nothing stays buried on the island’? Perhaps some of the ‘ghosts’ we’ve seen were actually temporarily resurrected as puppets for MIB. Sayid was able to break through the ‘plague’ and so was Claire. Maybe there were others who couldn’t do it.
13-HUH?
14-He couldnt kill them himself, he needed them to do it. And its easier to con them into bombing themselves all at once, then playing one against each other at a time. Besides, there would always be one left in the end.
15-Again, HUH?
16-I dunno about that. Plenty of people liked him. And the island DID change them, and we did witness it, so to backup their entire story of the island and FSW….they’d have to include those who we witnessed being affected by the island.
I think you misss the point, Bromsbie was listing things that the writers never bothered to explain. I’m sure that he wasn’t looking for how other people are interpreting them.
[quote comment="375804"][quote comment="375782"][quote comment="375756"][quote comment="375754"]What about three year old Aaron? What happened to him?[/quote]
Kate left him with Claire’s mother while she returned to the island to find Claire. Then Claire and Kate get off the island on the plane Frank Lapidus flies. We can only assume that Kate ‘helps’ Claire be the mother she wants to be. And they all live a normal life.[/quote]
Then who/what was the baby in the end scene, should not that have been an at least 3 year old child?[/quote]
No, because then Kate/Frank/Claire would be other ages too. They could’ve been any age when they passed away.
It is assumed by most that you are represented as ageless in the afterlife.[/quote]
Everyone at the Church looks the same way they did on the island because this is how they remember each other looking. They all (except for Boone who died as Aaron was being born) remember Aaron as a baby so it’s appropriate for him to appear this age. Only Kate, Jack and Sun saw Aaron grow when they made it off the island in the real world. It would be weird to see a 20 something year old Shannon (age when she died) and an 85 year old looking Sawyer (or whatever age he lived to). So they see each other as they were when they lived together.
Just wanted to say that I don’t think it makes logical sense that Ben did anything to harm Hurley when he was the Island protector, or, even worse, killed him. In the FSW near the end, we see Ben express remorse for what he did to Locke. It doesn’t make logical sense that he would then have that exchange with Hurley, which was filled with nothing but pleasantries between the two, if he had harmed or killed him. There would have been an acknowledgment of some sort by either one of them.
I think Ben got what he wanted at the end. Somebody who valued his experience and WANTED his help.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/popcandy/post/2010/05/lost-in-a-flash-your-top-comments-about-the-series-finale/1
[quote comment="375808"]Just wanted to say that I don’t think it makes logical sense that Ben did anything to harm Hurley when he was the Island protector, or, even worse, killed him. In the FSW near the end, we see Ben express remorse for what he did to Locke. It doesn’t make logical sense that he would then have that exchange with Hurley, which was filled with nothing but pleasantries between the two, if he had harmed or killed him. There would have been an acknowledgment of some sort by either one of them.
I think Ben got what he wanted at the end. Somebody who valued his experience and WANTED his help.[/quote]
Lol, I mean I get that you must be Team Ben so I understand where you are coming from.
Is it possible/logical that Ben could kill Hurley w/o Hurley being aware of Ben’s intent?
Is it logical to think that Ben could be manipulative enough to get someone else to kill Hurley, w/o Hurley knowing what was going on? Like have we ever seen Ben be extremely manipulative?
You seem to dismiss Ben’s lust for control of the island.
I’m not sure you can couch it as illogical(especially since LOST is ambiguous in its nature…unless you feel the whole show was illogical, which is a whole other discussion…how dare you shoot down the show like that…did I just do a Bugs Bunny on you and make you flip your whole premise around?) but I’ll agree to disagree with you.
Here’s something you can shoot down as illogical, but I would end up agreeing to disagree with you…maybe, just maybe Ben was trying to manipulate his way into that next level…like, he knew if he went in there, he’d start burning up like a whore in a church pew for all of his EVIL. How about those apples?
re: Ben–and his after/between life–
You have to believe(well, you don’t have to) that because he chose a ‘small’ life in FSW, Ben had figured out that simple things gave him more satisfaction than all his grandiose schemes of Island Dominance. He APOLOGIZED, he chose to stay and work out more stuff, he apparently was a good number 2 for Hurley, and the most important person to him was Alex. And the most fulfilling moments for him in the after/between was being like a dad to her.
So I don’t think the after/between was about punishment for what he dun wrong–which was plenty–but about letting go, and forgiving himself.
Plus enjoying some quality time with his kid, and maybe a relationship with Danielle the finally sane.
If, in fact, either of them are really REAL spirits and not Ben’s work-it-out creations. But that kinda doesn’t matter.
Letting Go is the theme here, not punishment/ atonement. Or, only self-punishment–and once you let go of all your earthly attachments (including your attachment to guilt), white light time.
When you’re ready.
Hey, free will at last!
I like the fact that its all about letting go, I just dont find it hard to believe that there would be a hidden theme in there as well.
Why was Eloise so concerned with “Stopping this…” and what were her intentions for hosting the concert?
if this was any other show I would probably just accept things for what they are, but it isnt, this is LOST
[quote comment="375814"]I like the fact that its all about letting go, I just dont find it hard to believe that there would be a hidden theme in there as well.
Why was Eloise so concerned with “Stopping this…”
and what were her intentions for hosting the concert?[/quote]
Eloise didn’t want Daniel to go. She wanted more time with him. She also steered him away from music as a child in mortal life, so she wants to help him fulfill his music dream in the FSW. She seemed to want to stop them, but didnt seem too concerned once she realized Dez was NOT taking Daniel with him.
[quote comment="375814"]I like the fact that its all about letting go, I just dont find it hard to believe that there would be a hidden theme in there as well.
Why was Eloise so concerned with “Stopping this…”
and what were her intentions for hosting the concert?[/quote]
Honestly, I thought a lot of what led up to the final in the FSW was manipulative–Eloise wants to stop Desmond–well, she had that intention before, to give him an important lesson about whatever happened, happened–so when we see her trying to stop Des in FSW (you can argue that her interactions with Des in the past seasons might have tied in to the FSW construct, but you can’t really tell as Des’ mind flipped around so much) we can be forgiven for thinking that it was something IMPORTANT to the main storyline of the real ALIVE life.
But it wasn’t. It was extremely personal, about Eloise not wanting to let go of the (after)life she desperately wanted–which was being a mother to her son, giving him what he wanted not what Fate insisted on.
Like with the Incident, she lived her own life in the round–having a child you know you are doomed to lose, by your own hand. You gotta feel for her!
The concert was just a device to put more characters together–and she was afraid Desmond was going to end her working it out time, but that’s not what he was about at that point.
And maybe Dan stayed because of his love for her, or because he wanted to work it out with Charlotte (if that was meant) or because he wasn’t ready himself for that letting go of being stuff.
IMO
[quote comment="375813"]re: Ben–and his after/between life–
You have to believe(well, you don’t have to) that because he chose a ‘small’ life in FSW, Ben had figured out that simple things gave him more satisfaction than all his grandiose schemes of Island Dominance. He APOLOGIZED, he chose to stay and work out more stuff, he apparently was a good number 2 for Hurley, and the most important person to him was Alex. And the most fulfilling moments for him in the after/between was being like a dad to her.
So I don’t think the after/between was about punishment for what he dun wrong–which was plenty–but about letting go, and forgiving himself.
Plus enjoying some quality time with his kid, and maybe a relationship with Danielle the finally sane.
If, in fact, either of them are really REAL spirits and not Ben’s work-it-out creations. But that kinda doesn’t matter.
Letting Go is the theme here, not punishment/ atonement. Or, only self-punishment–and once you let go of all your earthly attachments (including your attachment to guilt), white light time.
When you’re ready.
Hey, free will at last![/quote]
Ok Liz try these things on for size.
If the FSW is something these folks created, doesn’t it become more like the Marix in that they just need to figure out, they’re controlling what is happening. I’m having a (minor) issue believing FSW is something the Losties created.
Wasn’t all of Season 5 (off island) and selective Season 4 Flash Fwds, about Ben’s lust to get back to the island and presumably control it? (That’s part of why he had to kill Locke, because of Locke’s commune with the island).
I post that to say it’s hard for me to dismiss it, especially when the last we saw of him and his devotion appeared to just be wherever the wind was blowing.
Did he choose a small life in FSW? He did try to manipulate the Principal into taking his job…not very good at letting go.
If he was truly letting go, wouldn’t he let go of the fact that Alex was NOT his daughter? Get your own child Ben…through the proper legal channel, or spread your seeds. Seems like he’s hanging on to his abducted daughter. He probably doesn’t even think he did anything wrong.
(minor issue) I dont’ think Danielle was insane at all she just wanted her daughter back and distrusted everyone.
At the end of the day I can accept the “letting go” theme in general, just not with Ben’s evil arse. I don’t even think is sends a responsible message to the viewing public. Perhaps I need to start a petition to get D&C to go live and apologize for letting Ben off the hook. Hit ABC in their pockets by boycotting the rest of their tv shows.
:p
[quote comment="375814"]I like the fact that its all about letting go, I just dont find it hard to believe that there would be a hidden theme in there as well.
Why was Eloise so concerned with “Stopping this…”
and what were her intentions for hosting the concert?[/quote]
See my post #787
Eloise knew if Desmond didn’t stop searching for answers and started to remember, he’d help the others to remember and she didn’t want to lose Daniel. Most likely she wasn’t going to the same place as her son. Daniel would move on to the Church and she was probably on her way to Hell. Otherwise why would she NOT want Daniel to remember?
[quote comment="375790"]A list of holes (in no chronological sequence):
1-Why did MIB turn to smoke when others didn’t?
2-What’s the point of showing skeletons around the light source? Where there other smokies out there?
3-MIB really did nothing wrong! He killed the woman who killed his mother and his entire village! He was not a villain just an unlucky victim!
4-If crazy mom made it so that the brothers cannot hurt each other, how come Jacob destroyed MIB’s soul?
5-What’s the whole point of showing Jacob as a young boy then back into his own body?
6-What happened to Illana when Jacob went to see her at the hospital? What was the point of showing her so ellaboitly bandaged?
7-Afterall what was the significance of Walt?
8-Why or how could Walt manifest himself on the island after he left? He was not a body that MIB could inhabit?
9-What was the whole point of Dogan and his sidekick? They had no control over smokey, couldn’t keep him out and didn’t really know how to kill him!
10-What are the ancient Egyptian references. The kids, their mom and crazy woman were all locking civilization agnostic and mumbling latin anyways.
11-What were the shots given to Claire for anyways?
12-So who brought Sayeed back to life? If MIB could do it at will couldn’t he have resurrected any number of characters?
13-What was the loophole? Richard Alpert tried to stab Jacob before! Ben showing up with a knife was it?
14-Why couldn’t MIB kill all of the candidates in person? He needed a bomb in a submarine to do it?
15-Why couldn’t Michael die off the island? He was no longer or ever a candidate?
16-Why Boone, why now? He was insignificant to begin with!!!
….. And list goes on and on and on[/quote]
THESE WERE ANSWERED:
4. Mother made it so they couldn’t hurt (kill) each other directly. MIB said Jacob stole his body which was what happened when he went into the light. As he was being dragged, MIB reminded Jacob that he can’t kill him. Jacob responded that he had no intention of killing him. Jacob took his brother to the light since he wanted to see it so bad. Jacob had no idea what would happen.
5. MIB can’t kill the Candidates. Jacob reminds the MIB of this rule after his death several times after he takes the form of himself as a young man and appears to the MIB. On one occasion, when the MIB and Sawyer are together in the jungle, the boy reminds the MIB, “You know the rules. You can’t kill him.”
8. This was one of Walt’s special abilities. It wasn’t a manifestation by MIB since Walt wasn’t dead.
9. Dogen was in charge at the Temple, Lennon was his translator/adviser. The Temple was a place of sanctuary and the last safe place on the island according to Ben. The Temple was surrounded by ash which kept Smokey out. The ring of ash was most likely broken and Sayid killed Dogen which allowed Smokey to enter and massacre the people there.
10. Egyptians had been there long, long ago and built the Temple, the Statue and the Lighthouse. All these structures contained hieroglyphics.
11. When Claire was abducted, Ethan prenatally injected Claire’s baby Aaron on several occasions. When she asked about it, Ethan described the substance as a vaccine that the baby needed to prevent him from becoming sick.
12. The Temple’s healing spring was no longer clear and had turned dark and murky because Jacob was dead. MIB’s “darkness” took over the healing waters and Sayid was infected. Sayid was alive when he was held under the water. Putting a dead person in the water wouldn’t have led to a resurrection. If you remember Richard told Flocke, whom he still believed to be Locke at the time, “I’ve seen the island do a lot of amazing things but I’ve never seen it bring a person back from the dead.”
13. Since Jacob and MIB couldn’t kill each other, the “loophole” was to get someone else to kill the other person. MIB tricked Richard into trying to kill Jacob but he failed, Ben did not because Jacob never defended himself.
14. MIB couldn’t kill the Candidates directly because Jacob had previously “touched” them which gave them protection from MIB. It was one of Jacob’s rules. The Candidates could kill each other but MIB could not. MIB put the bomb in Jack’s backpack but Sawyer pulled the wires out so Sawyer actually did the killing.
15. Michael couldn’t kill himself because the island wasn’t done with him yet. He hadn’t fulfilled his purpose. Mr. Friendly told Michael “You can’t kill yourself because the island won’t let you.”
16. Boone was one of the main characters in the beginning. Shannon was the insignificant one. Boone at least contributed. Shannon was busy sunbathing, polishing her nails etc.. She didn’t care if someone died, just the fact that they didn’t bring any food back.
[quote comment="375820"][quote comment="375813"]re: Ben–and his after/between life–
You have to believe(well, you don’t have to) that because he chose a ‘small’ life in FSW, Ben had figured out that simple things gave him more satisfaction than all his grandiose schemes of Island Dominance. He APOLOGIZED, he chose to stay and work out more stuff, he apparently was a good number 2 for Hurley, and the most important person to him was Alex. And the most fulfilling moments for him in the after/between was being like a dad to her.
So I don’t think the after/between was about punishment for what he dun wrong–which was plenty–but about letting go, and forgiving himself.
Plus enjoying some quality time with his kid, and maybe a relationship with Danielle the finally sane.
If, in fact, either of them are really REAL spirits and not Ben’s work-it-out creations. But that kinda doesn’t matter.
Letting Go is the theme here, not punishment/ atonement. Or, only self-punishment–and once you let go of all your earthly attachments (including your attachment to guilt), white light time.
When you’re ready.
Hey, free will at last![/quote]
Ok Liz try these things on for size.
If the FSW is something these folks created, doesn’t it become more like the Marix in that they just need to figure out, they’re controlling what is happening. I’m having a (minor) issue believing FSW is something the Losties created.
Wasn’t all of Season 5 (off island) and selective Season 4 Flash Fwds, about Ben’s lust to get back to the island and presumably control it? (That’s part of why he had to kill Locke, because of Locke’s commune with the island).
I post that to say it’s hard for me to dismiss it, especially when the last we saw of him and his devotion appeared to just be wherever the wind was blowing.
Did he choose a small life in FSW? He did try to manipulate the Principal into taking his job…not very good at letting go.
If he was truly letting go, wouldn’t he let go of the fact that Alex was NOT his daughter? Get your own child Ben…through the proper legal channel, or spread your seeds. Seems like he’s hanging on to his abducted daughter. He probably doesn’t even think he did anything wrong.
(minor issue) I dont’ think Danielle was insane at all she just wanted her daughter back and distrusted everyone.
At the end of the day I can accept the “letting go” theme in general, just not with Ben’s evil arse. I don’t even think is sends a responsible message to the viewing public. Perhaps I need to start a petition to get D&C to go live and apologize for letting Ben off the hook. Hit ABC in their pockets by boycotting the rest of their tv shows.
:p[/quote]
(sorry RGS–was offline for a bit)
You know what, I kinda agree with a lot of what you’re saying about Ben–but the way FSW was written, it is not an after life of atonement–unless it’s your own personal guilt that’s tripping you up. So if you’re like Hurley, now you feel pretty good about yourself so you’re the luckiest guy alive in FSW. If you’re Sayid, you feel unworthy, even though you’re a good person, so you punish yourself by not getting the thing you (think you) want most.
Ben—he TRIES to pull a ‘Ben’ on the principal, but this time, chooses Alex’s welfare over his own gain–I think that’s the message there. So Ben has changed (since it’s the end, I guess we have to accept that he changed for good at last)
FSW is really not very judgmental. (Except Charlie who’s still throwing me off)
Basically, it doesn’t matter what you did or didn’t do in life, as long as you let go of your attachment to it–then you get to move on. I’m not judging that as a concept, just saying that is what I see in operation in FSW.
So FSW, hmm, kinda like the matrix, but not SF ‘real’, it seems to have been (spiritually)created by the Wish/Will of our characters, to wait for each other after death, so while there, stuff happens from the couple of niggly things their souls were bothered by (or something like), and when they figure it out, they don’t care about FSW anymore, only about going to the White Light. Together.
LOL on the petition–go for it! Punish Ben! Punish Ben! Ret-trib-U-tion! Punish Ben!
What if the light on the island is the same light that christian is opening up in the church? what if it is actually the gate to heaven and not hell? And if it goes out no one is allowed into heaven, cause it would be gone?
According to ABC and Lost insiders, Adewale (Eko) was offered a hefty sum to do one scene in the finale, but the actor wanted five times the amount that was offered. It didn’t work out.
Just watched last episode…… what a crock of american crap. A total waste of time for such a poor empty ending. Shame great concept but just couldn’t deliver. rubbish!!!!
after reflecting all week long, and after watching the show again I have come to the conclusion that it ended as perfectly as it could have. The answers we were given and the questions we were left with perfectly balanced one another. We will be wondering, hypothesizing and making connections for quite a while.
Perfect…
It’s interesting to notice that three of the people who didn’t move on – Ben, Charlotte, and Miles – all spent part of their early childhood on the island. Miles as a baby, Charlotte as a small girl and Ben when he was around eight. Maybe the island didn’t want them to move on.
By extension, maybe Faraday couldn’t move on because Charlotte couldn’t.
Re Ben: it’s possible he was ‘infected’ when healed as a boy, and therefore not fully liable for his subsequent actions.
Thank you! I love it!:)))
Thank you very much! I love it:)
Rewatched episode and answered my questions about jack getting out of the waterfall pit and desmond ou of the well. Did come up with one other question though. Why didn’t going into the waterfall pit affect jack in a negative way? We were told that going in was something worse than death although nothing happened to him. Maybe because the falls wasn’t up to full power after he plugged the hole but there has to be something more to it than that. Read somewhere that the extras on season 6 of the dvd release would address some lingering issues which should be interesting.
Who do you think built the light at the bottom of the waterfall and what do those tunnels go to? Are there any theories out there about this?
Comment 815! I’m ready to let go and move on now…
So, how long do you think it will be before we will all be able to “let go”?
[quote comment="375842"]It’s interesting to notice that three of the people who didn’t move on – Ben, Charlotte, and Miles – all spent part of their early childhood on the island. Miles as a baby, Charlotte as a small girl and Ben when he was around eight. Maybe the island didn’t want them to move on.
By extension, maybe Faraday couldn’t move on because Charlotte couldn’t.
[/quote]
Totally what I was thinking, but couldnt spit it out… Man In Black was an “Island baby”… or some sort of ‘between’ baby. Daniel Faraday very well could have been born on the island originally… we dont know for sure… He never wants to “move on” or doesnt figure it out … so he’s back in the loop in the end.
I’ve accepted that FSW is a place that they have gone to in order to “move on”… real or whatever, but I think some characters may not be moving on…
Charlie is a good example of how, without that final “connection” he wouldnt have fully passed. It took him to drop everything and go to Claire. Otherwise his reality still would have remained the same… (i.e, visiting Hurley in the mental hospital…)
[quote comment="375850"]Rewatched episode and answered my questions about jack getting out of the waterfall pit and desmond ou of the well. Did come up with one other question though. Why didn’t going into the waterfall pit affect jack in a negative way? We were told that going in was something worse than death although nothing happened to him. Maybe because the falls wasn’t up to full power after he plugged the hole but there has to be something more to it than that. Read somewhere that the extras on season 6 of the dvd release would address some lingering issues which should be interesting.[/quote]
See my post #784
I would like to know if anyone else has any theories.
I heard that too about the bonus material on the DVD’s.
[quote comment="375599"]I definitely think it takes a certain level of maturity to fully understand and appreciate the finale. I for one am completely satisfied with the way things wrapped up, that may be because I am not a 5 year old asking a million and one questions and demanding answers for these questions. I understand that there are certain things I am not supposed to know, i.e. the meaning of life, what happens after death, is there intelligent life in outer space, what happened to Atlantis, etc. LOST should be no different. I believe a certain aspect of LOST is to be applied to real life scenarios, the free will to do good or bad, the relationship with ones loved ones, etc with that being said, I think it would have been more of a cop-out to answer all these lingering questions in one sitting…if they did that what would we be talking about right now? there is no room for interpretation if D&C takes each one of you by the hand and says “this is why that happened, this is why he/she died, this is who built this that and the third”….seriously people, if that did happen the complainers would still find something to complain about…”I didnt like their answer for this…I dont like how they handled that”…etc. Nobody forced you to watch this show all these years and no one trained anyone on how to watch it…these things you all thought of yourselves or maybe with the help of some other bloggers who shared the same train of thought as you, but in the end it is still YOUR train of thought…I have never heard any of the producers or writers chastise someone because they are “watching the show wrong”. The writers of the show gave us the best possible ending in their eyes, not yours, to say you all have lost the last 6 years of your lives because you dont agree with how it all ends is just a damn shame.[/quote]
I don’t think that is the point. People looking for answers are not people who want to know if Shirley MacLaine is right about Atlantis. They are people who want to know when the writers “wrote” these episodes through the years, were they “telling a story” that was coherent based on its own instrinsic narrative and rules, or were they throwing out “dramatic moments” and “highlights” to hook the audience – highlights and moments that they could never hope to (and didn’t!) weave into a satisfying and fulfilling narrative explanation. That is the basis of satisfying fiction – characters plus goals plus complications moves to crisis, climax and then (now wait for it) resolution!
I think Walt was a misstep that just went nowhere. These are the same writers from Alias and if you know anything about that show, they did the same thing there. More successfully in my view.
One further thought. Considering there is no afterlife and there is no God, what utter romantic nonsense.
Rich,
I think the ending can be interpreted in two different ways, thus giving the writers an ‘out’.
(1) Everybody ends up in some undefined afterlife. If you take this version of events at face value, then good for you. But by comparing the afterlife to an apollo bar (turn the machine off and on again and you’ll get a little candy-coated thank-you) the writers are expressing a certain amount of contempt for this idea.
(2) The island is an AI. Anybody who died on it and who served it well is downloaded into a virtual reality at its core and – eventually – erased. Lapidus never made it off the island. Jack had already re-activated the island’s magnetic field. Thus Kate and Sawyer ended up exactly where they started* after crashing for the third time, along with Miles, Lapidus and Richard.
If you’re willing to accept this theory, there’s still an anomoly. One person who didn’t die on the island, who never even visited it, yet who ended up in the sideways world: Penny – whose whereabouts were unknown at this stage. It’s possible (if unlikely) that she was on the sub.
* Adam and Eve?
I haven’t had time to read much but I have a question: if they died after the bomb went off then everything that happened on the island after it too was an alt-life, right?
Rich,
after agonizing over it (not seriously, but still) I think the REAL point is that LOST is a show WITHOUT answers. Throughout the whole run of the series, even though it was always left on an open end, there were still some satisfying “conclusions” yet never an absolute finish.
The title “The End” is in some way ironic, but to many, still left us with some sort of sense that what we saw was a happy ending…listen to the testifyin’ all over (half) this blog. yet STILL no real conclusion.
In the end, I dont think there is supposed to be any earth shattering message or round story, the theme is that there is no difference between life or alt-life, there is only “Your life.” I think Doc Brown said it in Back To The Future III, but this was just a deeper look at how far that theme can fly.
Yes I half expected some sort of conclusion where in one head shattering instant all of the peices would just fit… but I think they flipped it on us… instead we have to see that the peices dont fit, or wont always fit, and. thats. ok. You just gotta keep choogin man! Until the dog lays down next to you.
[quote comment="375856"][quote comment="375850"]Rewatched episode and answered my questions about jack getting out of the waterfall pit and desmond ou of the well. Did come up with one other question though. Why didn’t going into the waterfall pit affect jack in a negative way? We were told that going in was something worse than death although nothing happened to him. Maybe because the falls wasn’t up to full power after he plugged the hole but there has to be something more to it than that. Read somewhere that the extras on season 6 of the dvd release would address some lingering issues which should be interesting.[/quote]
See my post #784
I would like to know if anyone else has any theories.
I heard that too about the bonus material on the DVD’s.[/quote]
Seemed to me that Duke’s first thought is likely…Des was immune and pulled the plug. The energy/mythos was NOT in effect. Jack puts the plug back in and when the energy is ‘booting up’, Jack gets tossed up stream before the energy/mythos has a chance to do it’s dirty work to Jack.
[quote comment="375851"]Who do you think built the light at the bottom of the waterfall and what do those tunnels go to? Are there any theories out there about this?[/quote]
A theory:
Tunnels go to hell (or whatever LOST’s version of hell would be). The island is the cork to keep evil away from the rest of the world. The ‘good’ side built the ‘heart’ of the island. The ‘bad’ side is drawing mortals thirsty for power to get one to pull the plug, sink the island and…………..
[quote comment="375866"][quote comment="375856"][quote comment="375850"]Rewatched episode and answered my questions about jack getting out of the waterfall pit and desmond ou of the well. Did come up with one other question though. Why didn’t going into the waterfall pit affect jack in a negative way? We were told that going in was something worse than death although nothing happened to him. Maybe because the falls wasn’t up to full power after he plugged the hole but there has to be something more to it than that. Read somewhere that the extras on season 6 of the dvd release would address some lingering issues which should be interesting.[/quote]
See my post #784
I would like to know if anyone else has any theories.
I heard that too about the bonus material on the DVD’s.[/quote]
Seemed to me that Duke’s first thought is likely…Des was immune and pulled the plug. The energy/mythos was NOT in effect. Jack puts the plug back in and when the energy is ‘booting up’, Jack gets tossed up stream before the energy/mythos has a chance to do it’s dirty work to Jack.[/quote]
**********
Yes! Desmond was special. Jacob knew this and that is why he asked Widmore to bring him back. for some reason the light, or the other elements on the island did not affect Desomond.
Jacob could not kill his brother’s soul (or whatever was left in the form of smokey) not only because mother made it that way, but it was just not in him!
He took a great risk in extinguishing the light, but I think he knew it was the only way Smokey could be hurt, even killed.
With the light out, Jack was not harmed. He was able to save the island from total destruction. He did his job and the island was done with him.
Even though we didn’t get to see what the end for smokey was like…part of me thinks that in death, he was finally free.
It only ends once becomes so powerful as we see that we do only have this one life and at sometime our earthly life will end…
sorry toeknee.I meant,dohc ! ha !
All this week I have read so much about the finale, and I keep returning to this recap – it makes so much sense, and has helped me to stop asking questions and accept the ending we were given. Done with tremendous wit and intelligence – please take a moment to read!
http://jezebel.com/5546559/lost-finale-recap-case-closed
[quote comment="375857"][quote comment="375599"][/quote]
I think Walt was a misstep that just went nowhere. These are the same writers from Alias and if you know anything about that show, they did the same thing there. More successfully in my view.
One further thought. Considering there is no afterlife and there is no God, what utter romantic nonsense.[/quote]
Walt grew up too fast. If anything the casting crew was to blame and should have anticipated this.
Maybe you’ll be happy to hear that ABC is reportedly in talks about producing a remake of Alias.
It’s a shame you think Dead is Dead.
[quote comment="375868"][quote comment="375866"][quote comment="375856"][quote comment="375850"][/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
**********
Jacob could not kill his brother’s soul (or whatever was left in the form of smokey) not only because mother made it that way, but it was just not in him!
He took a great risk in extinguishing the light, but I think he knew it was the only way Smokey could be hurt, even killed.
[/quote]
I agree Miss lost.
I’m glad we can move on from the very end of the show. So many people have been hung up on that part but that wasn’t all that happened.
Looking back, after Sayid was shot, he said nothing could save him. He wasn’t just talking about his life ending. I’m thinking that’s why he became the way he did after his dip in the Healing Springs. He couldn’t forgive himself. This fits in with Hurley telling him in the FSW not to let other people tell you who you are.
[quote comment="375867"][quote comment="375851"]Who do you think built the light at the bottom of the waterfall and what do those tunnels go to? Are there any theories out there about this?[/quote]
A theory:
Tunnels go to hell (or whatever LOST’s version of hell would be). The island is the cork to keep evil away from the rest of the world. The ‘good’ side built the ‘heart’ of the island. The ‘bad’ side is drawing mortals thirsty for power to get one to pull the plug, sink the island and…………..[/quote]
Makes sense to me!
I just thought about the scene with Michael on the island where he explained that he can’t move on…
forward to the scene where Ben is sitting outside the church and he chooses not to go in…
I think it may be similar for both characters…they are both trapped in between life and death, but I think it is by choice.
I think they both still had unresolved issues with themselves and therefore unable to move on!
Michael was on the island and maybe the island was not done with him yet, but I actually think he was not done with the island and unable to move on because he himself was not ready and did not feel worthy!
Same with Ben. It sounds like he was redeemed and made a great number 2, but the emotions he felt swirling around Alex~ he is still unable to forgive himself for her death…his selfishness was the cause of many deaths, but hers was unbearable to him. He is not done punishing himself…not yet!
I woke up this morning in a sweat when I realized finally who was to blame for this whole BP mess… it’s MIB: http://digg.com/comedy/Smoke_Monster_vs_BP_Oil_Spill
[quote comment="375838"]Just watched last episode…… what a crock of american crap. A total waste of time for such a poor empty ending. Shame great concept but just couldn’t deliver. rubbish!!!![/quote]
Could not possibly agree more.
[/quote]
The sideways world was a world where they went when they died. Christian said they all died at different times. Why is it so hard to see this? Once Jack realized he was dead, they all could move on…is it really that complicated?[/quote]
I think people don’t want to believe this explanation b/c it was such a poor cop-out ending to the show. It’s not that they are stupid, they simply don’t want to believe that they wasted six years watching a lie. For me the finale took this show from my top ten to my bottom ten.
Sorry first part of last post is a quote from an earlier post.
I thought the ending was great. I had to watch it two times. First off, you will never in your life get all the answers eg. What came first the chicken or the egg.
Its the way the story about these people are being told that makes the difference.
[quote comment="375883"]I just thought about the scene with Michael on the island where he explained that he can’t move on…
forward to the scene where Ben is sitting outside the church and he chooses not to go in…
I think it may be similar for both characters…they are both trapped in between life and death, but I think it is by choice.
I think they both still had unresolved issues with themselves and therefore unable to move on!
Michael was on the island and maybe the island was not done with him yet, but I actually think he was not done with the island and unable to move on because he himself was not ready and did not feel worthy!
Same with Ben. It sounds like he was redeemed and made a great number 2, but the emotions he felt swirling around Alex~ he is still unable to forgive himself for her death…his selfishness was the cause of many deaths, but hers was unbearable to him. He is not done punishing himself…not yet![/quote]
I think you’re right. At first I couldn’t understand why Michael was still a whisperer on the island. He stayed on the freighter with the C-4 to allow the others to escape. I felt he made up for what he had done but I guess he still couldn’t forgive himself yet. The same with Ben. Probably the only people he ever truly cared for in his life were his mother, even though she died in childbirth, Alex and Annie. What he felt for Juliet was different. From what we saw in the FSW, I think he felt remorse for what he did to Danielle too.
[quote comment="375866"][quote comment="375856"][quote comment="375850"]Rewatched episode and answered my questions about jack getting out of the waterfall pit and desmond ou of the well. Did come up with one other question though. Why didn’t going into the waterfall pit affect jack in a negative way? We were told that going in was something worse than death although nothing happened to him. Maybe because the falls wasn’t up to full power after he plugged the hole but there has to be something more to it than that. Read somewhere that the extras on season 6 of the dvd release would address some lingering issues which should be interesting.[/quote]
See my post #784
I would like to know if anyone else has any theories.
I heard that too about the bonus material on the DVD’s.[/quote]
Seemed to me that Duke’s first thought is likely…Des was immune and pulled the plug. The energy/mythos was NOT in effect. Jack puts the plug back in and when the energy is ‘booting up’, Jack gets tossed up stream before the energy/mythos has a chance to do it’s dirty work to Jack.[/quote]
So if it was still rebooting and wasn’t at full power that also explains why the Ajira plane was able to take off safely.
I say that in regards to the light, the enrgy couldnt effect Jack negatively because he defeated the smoke, which basically was the power behind the negative charge…
The light booting up probably just gave enough charge to “flash” Jack onto the rock. Arguably you could say that this same event had already happened before, and the smoke/Flocke when he said that “it’s too late” meant that he knew soon Jack was going to go into the cave/light and flash back to his first scene from episode 1… his loop… BUT since Jack in the FSW accepted his death and moved on, then things ended differently (not “the same”) and the loop was broken…
Here’s a link everyone might be interested in, an awesome tribute video to the Lost finale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hHG46DaaLU .
[quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
————-
Victor, you are all sorts of wrong.
Your comment seems to indicate you don’t think Jackson Pollock is a great artist.
First of all it might help you to make a point when you can spell the name correctly.
Second; only hicks and people who hate Modern art think that Jackson Pollock is a bad artist.
If you hate Modern art then maybe best to stick to talking about Sports or your car.
Trying to make a comparison to LOST fails in so many ways. I certainly had my beefs but the show was a hell of a lot more than mud tossed at the wall.
You might want to actually investigate the history of painting before you make comments that show how uneducated and vain you are about that fact. Painting is a language and just because you don’t know the language and can’t understand it…doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. If you were at a Swedish Poetry reading I’m sure you’d be confused but would you start crying that it’s gibberish? Maybe so….
But too many people want some sort of pretty picture as art and are severely closed minded.
I’m not saying you have to LIKE Jackson Pollock to be a smart person or someone who appreciates culture…it’s just that knowing how he fits in to the history of painting and how significant he is to it, might keep you from using him as a comparison to something just tossed off that is worthless.
Liking a piece of Art or disliking a piece…has little to do with knowing about it in general; There’s a difference between being informed and being prejudiced.
It it were so easy to paint like that and do good work…I’d love to see you enter the history books with your paintings of paint tossed around.
Also; try standing in front of an actual painting by the man and be quiet for a moment…you might learn something. A closed minded person never learns anything. You can always go back to your Dogs playing Poker poster…no harm done.
I just hate cliches from dumb people about Art.
Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?
[quote comment="375908"]Here’s a link everyone might be interested in, an awesome tribute video to the Lost finale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hHG46DaaLU .[/quote]
Thank you. That is so beautiful and it brought tears to my eyes.
Regardless of whether you loved or hated the ending, LOST is one of the greatest shows of all time. No other show has sparked so much discussion on countless blogs. What other show has it’s own encyclopedia? We’ve read numerous books and done endless research. This was a show for thinkers not those that just wanted to veg out in front of the tube. I feel the loss already and am going to miss it.
[quote comment="375917"]Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?[/quote]
Because he wasn’t Flocke, he was John Locke.
Looking back, each set of brothers were similar. One “good” and one not so good. We had Jacob and MIB, Sayid and his brother (remember the chicken?), Charlie and Liam, and Eko and Yemi.
The death of Flocke mirrored Jacob’s death. Ben stabbed Jacob and Flocke kicked him into the fire pit. Kate shot Flocke and Jack kicked him over the cliff.
[quote comment="375919"][quote comment="375917"]Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?[/quote]
Because he wasn’t Flocke, he was John Locke.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense. Lock was dead – Ben killed him.
[quote comment="375923"][quote comment="375919"][quote comment="375917"]Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?[/quote]
Because he wasn’t Flocke, he was John Locke.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense. Lock was dead – Ben killed him.[/quote]
They are all dead in that scene. Go back and listen to Christians explanation to Jack one more time. Sun and Jin are there too – They’re all dead.
[quote comment="375923"][quote comment="375919"][quote comment="375917"]Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?[/quote]
Because he wasn’t Flocke, he was John Locke.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense. Lock was dead – Ben killed him.[/quote]
———————————————–
You just don’t get the whole show if you can make a statement like that and I don’t have the energy to explain it to you. If you have been a regular reader of this blog, you would certainly have a clue as to what you are questioning, even if you did not accept all of the theories. Try going back and doing some reading here. There are a lot of smart people here that have explained these things over and over. There are many things I would have never understood w/o the wisdom of the people on this blog, but you have to be willing to read the information they offer up to you here.
Wally P! You are looking for things that do not exist and are you are unable to effectively communicate the half-baked theories you dream-up! When I read your posts, I laugh because your ideas are so off, and then I cry because trying to convince you to understand is so hopeless.
Wally P! You are looking for things that do not exist and are you are unable to effectively communicate the half-baked theories you dream-up! When I read your posts, I laugh because your ideas are so off, and then I cry because trying to convince you to understand is so hopeless.
[quote comment="375925"][quote comment="375923"][quote comment="375919"][quote comment="375917"]Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?[/quote]
Because he wasn’t Flocke, he was John Locke.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense. Lock was dead – Ben killed him.[/quote]
———————————————–
You just don’t get the whole show if you can make a statement like that and I don’t have the energy to explain it to you. If you have been a regular reader of this blog, you would certainly have a clue as to what you are questioning, even if you did not accept all of the theories. Try going back and doing some reading here. There are a lot of smart people here that have explained these things over and over. There are many things I would have never understood w/o the wisdom of the people on this blog, but you have to be willing to read the information they offer up to you here.[/quote]
—–
Sorry, But I have to agree with Belle;
I never thought of that before but I think she’s right;
Locke WAS killed in the sideways reality by Ben wasn’t he?
I mean, I could be wrong but it seems so.
I don’t think you should berate someone for bringing up the question and saying “You just don’t get the whole show if you can make a statement like that…”
That’s a little condescending.
Sure, everyone’s DEAD in the end but in that “dead zone” if someone was killed off…how is it they would appear at the Church? I really can’t think of anyone else who appeared there who was killed in the Sideways reality.
The whole show is certainly FULL of holes…you just have to admit that.
There’s even a link on this page to a Comedy site that shows there were plenty more holes than even I remembered…so don’t think it’s so easy to figure out things. I think Belle really touched on an inconsistency even for the “Magic” ending where the show really copped out (as far as I’m concerned) with a cute little bow tied on to the end.
How great it would have been to have Patchy and Keamy burst into the Church and blast everyone with machine guns. But then that would have upset all the people who got all teary eyed with the sugary ending.
Then Ben walks in and says; “Thanks guys, the Island is ours now!”
[quote comment="375928"][quote comment="375925"][quote comment="375923"][quote comment="375919"][quote comment="375917"]Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?[/quote]
Because he wasn’t Flocke, he was John Locke.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense. Lock was dead – Ben killed him.[/quote]
———————————————–
You just don’t get the whole show if you can make a statement like that and I don’t have the energy to explain it to you. If you have been a regular reader of this blog, you would certainly have a clue as to what you are questioning, even if you did not accept all of the theories. Try going back and doing some reading here. There are a lot of smart people here that have explained these things over and over. There are many things I would have never understood w/o the wisdom of the people on this blog, but you have to be willing to read the information they offer up to you here.[/quote]
—–
Sorry, But I have to agree with Belle;
I never thought of that before but I think she’s right;
Locke WAS killed in the sideways reality by Ben wasn’t he?
I mean, I could be wrong but it seems so.
I don’t think you should berate someone for bringing up the question and saying “You just don’t get the whole show if you can make a statement like that…”
That’s a little condescending.
——————————————-
I agree w/Belle too. It was Nick I was meaning to address w/my comments.
I was not trying to be condescending and apologize if it came across that way. I just get exasperated by people who comment on the blog when they obviously have not taken time to read the blog. I never comment until I have read the entire blog. It is kind of a courtesy issue w/me and so many needless questions would not have to be asked if people who want to participate on the blog would simply read all of the ideas on here first. I also don’t know how someone could possibly have thought it was Flocke in the FSW world as he said in his comment. If you didn’t get it by watching the show (Where Flocke was killed by Kate and Jack on the island), then all of the discussion on this final episode in this blog would have certainly made the distinction between the island world and the FSW world clear.
[quote comment="375916"][quote comment="375147"]Here’s the best explanation.
Yeah, try and make sense of that. You can’t. They threw a bunch of mud on the wall.
It’s the Jackson Pollack of TV.[/quote]
————-
Victor, you are all sorts of wrong.
Your comment seems to indicate you don’t think Jackson Pollock is a great artist.
First of all it might help you to make a point when you can spell the name correctly.
Second; only hicks and people who hate Modern art think that Jackson Pollock is a bad artist.
If you hate Modern art then maybe best to stick to talking about Sports or your car.
Trying to make a comparison to LOST fails in so many ways. I certainly had my beefs but the show was a hell of a lot more than mud tossed at the wall.
You might want to actually investigate the history of painting before you make comments that show how uneducated and vain you are about that fact. Painting is a language and just because you don’t know the language and can’t understand it…doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. If you were at a Swedish Poetry reading I’m sure you’d be confused but would you start crying that it’s gibberish? Maybe so….
But too many people want some sort of pretty picture as art and are severely closed minded.
I’m not saying you have to LIKE Jackson Pollock to be a smart person or someone who appreciates culture…it’s just that knowing how he fits in to the history of painting and how significant he is to it, might keep you from using him as a comparison to something just tossed off that is worthless.
Liking a piece of Art or disliking a piece…has little to do with knowing about it in general; There’s a difference between being informed and being prejudiced.
It it were so easy to paint like that and do good work…I’d love to see you enter the history books with your paintings of paint tossed around.
Also; try standing in front of an actual painting by the man and be quiet for a moment…you might learn something. A closed minded person never learns anything. You can always go back to your Dogs playing Poker poster…no harm done.
I just hate cliches from dumb people about Art.[/quote]
—————————————-
Who were you calling condescending?
[quote comment="375926"]Wally P! You are looking for things that do not exist and are you are unable to effectively communicate the half-baked theories you dream-up! When I read your posts, I laugh because your ideas are so off, and then I cry because trying to convince you to understand is so hopeless.[/quote]
Half baked maybe… but WAY off?
Which parts? Are you saying that Jack never flashed or that he was never stuck in a loop?
And he didnt defeat the smoke? Or are you saying that him defeating the smoke just served no real purpose in the whole scheme of things?
Was the smoke just Jacobs brother turned into smoke? I thought he was EVERY character that he pretended to be, there were alot after all. I know 99 point 9 percent of everyone on here thinks the smoke is just Jacobs brother, even though we clearly saw that he was Adam and Eve. But…
And wait, didn’t the Flocke know things were going to happen before they did? Didn’t he give himself a compass in the future that went around the loop… WAIT, so there was NO loop?
One day you are going to wake up man and you’ll be like WOAH… Wally P KNEW HIS SHIT!!!! Cuz I do.
Anyway, not trying to start a flame war here or nothing, I just see it differently I guess. But its not all that different… I love alot of the other theories… at this point we all know how it ended, so whatever. you say its all spiritual… I think its a mix of both spiritual and literal actions/responses.
And to think its so cut and dry is ridiculous.
is there anyone who doesnt believe that the smoke was Jacobs brother turned into smoke? cuz I think thats a bogus opinion. The smoke was an ALL encompassing evil… not a man. He never was a man. Ever.
is there anyone who believes that Jack was stuck in a loop until the very end? I do, there were a zillion clues along the road that spelled LOOP. His eye closed at the end, but he was in the EXACT spot where he started. If the FSW stuff didn’t happen, he would have been right back where he started, when he started. (… a fate worse than death if you ask me.)
If you look at it, it explains alot.
There wasnt a happy ending for every character… agree or disagree?
Widmore, utilizing the wrong energy. The negative energy and trying to make it work as a positive. Didn’t work. He’s still stuck on the island. he escaped for some twenty years, but he’s still stuck. He’s not moving on.
Ben strangled John Locke in the OT.
After hearing Ben tell Locke in the FSW (Dead zone as Bobola called it. I like that BTW) that he was jealous of John because he was special and he (Ben) wasn’t, I wonder if Ben let Walt off the island because he was jealous of him too. With Walt’s special abilities, he would have been a threat to Ben’s leadership and possibly taken over “HIS job” in time. Ben does kill anyone that gets in his way but we know he’s never killed a child. He seems to have a soft spot for children. Just a thought.
[quote comment="375930"]
—————————————-
Who were you calling condescending?[/quote]
——
I thought it was pretty clear;
It was directed at victor who made the stupid remark comparing the great artist Jackson Pollock’s work to mud thrown against a wall to LOST.
Both descriptions show an incredible lack of respect to very hard work.
I’ve studied art all my life and it’s a huge passion; Pollock isn’t a favorite but he sure earned his place in history and I will come down on any nitwit who has the gall to talk trash about him. I also have my gripes with LOST but I’ve given the show a lot of compliments too.
I get the fact that most Americans are rattled by someone with actual knowledge of the Arts who expresses strong opinions. victor had it coming.
You have a problem with that?
[quote comment="375931"][quote comment="375926"]Wally P! You are looking for things that do not exist and are you are unable to effectively communicate the half-baked theories you dream-up! When I read your posts, I laugh because your ideas are so off, and then I cry because trying to convince you to understand is so hopeless.[/quote]
Half baked maybe… but WAY off?
Are you saying that Jack was never stuck in a loop?
I know 99 point 9 percent. But…
And wait, didn’t the Flocke know things were going to happen before they did?
One day you are going to wake up man and you’ll be like WOAH… Wally P KNEW HIS SHIT!!!! Cuz I do.[/quote]
Jack was never stuck in a loop, sorry. If Flocke new what was going to happen he would have forseen his death. He did not. He just had an elaborate plan. You should take a minute to read what you’ve written. It’s quite entertaining actually.
[quote comment="375929"][quote comment="375928"][quote comment="375925"][quote comment="375923"][quote comment="375919"][quote comment="375917"]Has anyone answered this question…
Why did Jack, Christian and Hurley allow Flock into the church at the end?[/quote]
Because he wasn’t Flocke, he was John Locke.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense. Lock was dead – Ben killed him.[/quote]
———————————————–
You just don’t get the whole show if you can make a statement like that and I don’t have the energy to explain it to you. If you have been a regular reader of this blog, you would certainly have a clue as to what you are questioning, even if you did not accept all of the theories. Try going back and doing some reading here. There are a lot of smart people here that have explained these things over and over. There are many things I would have never understood w/o the wisdom of the people on this blog, but you have to be willing to read the information they offer up to you here.[/quote]
—–
Sorry, But I have to agree with Belle;
I never thought of that before but I think she’s right;
Locke WAS killed in the sideways reality by Ben wasn’t he?
I mean, I could be wrong but it seems so.
I don’t think you should berate someone for bringing up the question and saying “You just don’t get the whole show if you can make a statement like that…”
That’s a little condescending.
——————————————-
I agree w/Belle too. It was Nick I was meaning to address w/my comments.
I was not trying to be condescending and apologize if it came across that way. I just get exasperated by people who comment on the blog when they obviously have not taken time to read the blog. I never comment until I have read the entire blog. It is kind of a courtesy issue w/me and so many needless questions would not have to be asked if people who want to participate on the blog would simply read all of the ideas on here first.
I also don’t know how someone could possibly have thought it was Flocke in the FSW world as he said in his comment. If you didn’t get it by watching the show (Where Flocke was killed by Kate and Jack on the island), then all of the discussion on this final episode in this blog would have certainly made the distinction between the island world and the FSW world clear.[/quote]
Jinx> I’ve rewatched the final 2 episodes so things are a bit clearer. I see that they’ve all been dead since the bomb went off. But I still think that it’s Flock in the church at the end. I understand that the final season was everyone in Hell (the island) and Heaven (city). So it makes sense for Flock to be there in both places since he’s a kind of evil angel. I just don’t get why everyone in the Church is so happy to see him.
Here are some reasons I think ‘prove’ that they did not all die when the bomb detonated:
Juliette died shortly after, the rest did not. (How many time does a person die? ONCE i say, why would they present Juliette as dead, but present the rest of them as alive if they ALL died…really.)
We saw Jack die at the end, so he DID NOT die when the bomb went off…really.
Combine Christian’s words about WHEN folks that were in the church died in relation to Jack’s death with the fact that we know WHEN Jack, Charlie, Christian, Libby, Boone, Shannon, Sayid, Kwons, and Locke all died yet we don’t know when Kate, Sawyer, Hugo, Des, Penny, Aaron, Claire, Rose and Bernard all died.
Now we know they did not all die when the bomb went off…right?
Hammer is correct. Also, the bomb did not create the FSW, so you can stop with that nonsense. Only thing that happened with the bomb detonation was: 1. the incident that caused DHARMA to build the hatch, and 2. the losties were transported to 2007. That’s it.
[quote comment="375949"]Hammer is correct. Also, the bomb did not create the FSW, so you can stop with that nonsense. Only thing that happened with the bomb detonation was: 1. the incident that caused DHARMA to build the hatch, and 2. the losties were transported to 2007. That’s it.[/quote]
Thanks 7.
Actually detonating the bomb is what STOPPED DHARMA from building the hatch…which changed the past (no hatch = no crash in their minds) which lead to the Losties creating their FSW (Juliet: “It worked.”)
IMO, no bomb = no Losties FSW because if it didn’t work, Jack would never have taken the ‘job’ and saved the island, and so on….
Brain fart, the bomb and the drilling is what caused incident which is why they built the hatch in the original time line.
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)
[quote comment="375950"][quote comment="375949"]Hammer is correct. Also, the bomb did not create the FSW, so you can stop with that nonsense. Only thing that happened with the bomb detonation was: 1. the incident that caused DHARMA to build the hatch, and 2. the losties were transported to 2007. That’s it.[/quote]
Thanks 7.
Actually detonating the bomb is what STOPPED DHARMA from building the hatch…which changed the past (no hatch = no crash in their minds) which lead to the Losties creating their FSW (Juliet: “It worked.”)
IMO, no bomb = no Losties FSW because if it didn’t work, Jack would never have taken the ‘job’ and saved the island, and so on….[/quote]
Actually, that’s not correct Hammer. What happened, happened. The past was never changed. When the losties arrived in 2007 after detonating jughead, what we saw on top of Juliet was the imploded swan hatch. In LA X, pt.1 Miles asks, “Is that the construction site?” and Kate replies, “No, that’s the Swan hatch, after Desmond blew it up.”
The FSW was created by the collective conscience of the losties, and “when” it was created is a non-factor. Juliet, near death, saw a vision of the FSW, and was referring to her encounter with James at the vending machine. When she said “it worked”, she was echoing what she said to James after the vending machine trick.
[quote comment="375951"]
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)[/quote]
Sorry, I’m not seeing your logic. The FSW was created by them, not the bomb. You realize the FSW is occurring after everyone is dead, right? That could be 100 years or more after the bomb went off since Hugo, the island protector, does not age, and can make it so Ben does not age, just as Jacob and Richard were for hundreds of years.
[quote comment="375947"]Here are some reasons I think ‘prove’ that they did not all die when the bomb detonated:
Juliette died shortly after, the rest did not. (How many time does a person die? ONCE i say, why would they present Juliette as dead, but present the rest of them as alive if they ALL died…really.)
We saw Jack die at the end, so he DID NOT die when the bomb went off…really.
Combine Christian’s words about WHEN folks that were in the church died in relation to Jack’s death with the fact that we know WHEN Jack, Charlie, Christian, Libby, Boone, Shannon, Sayid, Kwons, and Locke all died yet we don’t know when Kate, Sawyer, Hugo, Des, Penny, Aaron, Claire, Rose and Bernard all died.
Now we know they did not all die when the bomb went off…right?[/quote]
Exactly, AND they didn’t all die in the plane crash either. Why won’t people believe us? SIGH.
[quote comment="375952"][quote comment="375950"][quote comment="375949"]Hammer is correct. Also, the bomb did not create the FSW, so you can stop with that nonsense. Only thing that happened with the bomb detonation was: 1. the incident that caused DHARMA to build the hatch, and 2. the losties were transported to 2007. That’s it.[/quote]
Thanks 7.
Actually detonating the bomb is what STOPPED DHARMA from building the hatch…which changed the past (no hatch = no crash in their minds) which lead to the Losties creating their FSW (Juliet: “It worked.”)
IMO, no bomb = no Losties FSW because if it didn’t work, Jack would never have taken the ‘job’ and saved the island, and so on….[/quote]
Actually, that’s not correct Hammer. What happened, happened. The past was never changed. When the losties arrived in 2007 after detonating jughead, what we saw on top of Juliet was the imploded swan hatch. In LA X, pt.1 Miles asks, “Is that the construction site?” and Kate replies, “No, that’s the Swan hatch, after Desmond blew it up.”
The FSW was created by the collective conscience of the losties, and “when” it was created is a non-factor. Juliet, near death, saw a vision of the FSW, and was referring to her encounter with James at the vending machine. When she said “it worked”, she was echoing what she said to James after the vending machine trick.[/quote]
I agree. Daniel’s original theory of whatever happened, happened was correct. He took a gamble with the hydrogen bomb because he so desperately wanted to change the past. We were led to believe the FSW was another time line created by the bomb but it wasn’t.
[quote comment="375951"]Brain fart, the bomb and the drilling is what caused incident which is why they built the hatch in the original time line.
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)[/quote]
That seems like the clearest example to me. Time travel happens when Desmond does not push the button, which creates the specific course… starts on Sep. 2004. Oceanic crashes because it was set up by Widmore to be in the specific location at the specific time (explains the different pilot) This is why there IS a LOOP.
The skips that the island experiences start when the hatch is exploded, and move very specifically 2004-1954-2004-1867 (the statue)-1974. And whatever others. It is between 1974 and 1977 that time travel is discovered to be the cause by Dharma, and then by Dharma that time travel is caused.
It had to have happened more than once for anyone to have exploited it, and we know that at least Dharma and Widmore knew about it enough to set up actions at specific dates along the line. therefore it is a loop.
Jack was in the loop. Not necessarilly anyone else from OCeanic though (unless you want to count Desmond…) 2004-1974. Jack was never supposed to leave the island, but he did and escaped his place in the loop, and then didnt return for three years. So this is why he flashed to the seventies, because this is where he should have been, and it is also why Locke automatically flashed to 2007 when he turned the wheel… and the outcome of the Incident was changed, because instead of waking up in 2004 after the Hatch, he woke up in 2007 creating that broken loop that was on Eloises pin… (2007 also seems to be the year that the sh*t goes down…)
Now. If Jack is creating people in his mind like his son in FSW, is it possible that he created characters in his mind all along, like Christian Sheppard for example. Or even Jacob? Is it possible that Jack always WAS Jacob, and he just couldnt accept the role, so he created Jacob? Island time can have that effect right? (Walts polar bear). So 2007 becomes the year that Jack dies, but he never could before because of the loop/island insanity. Jacob dying was the first flag to signify that Jack was ready… fake Locke was the second, and Christian was the third.
[quote comment="375953"][quote comment="375951"]
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)[/quote]
Sorry, I’m not seeing your logic. The FSW was created by them, not the bomb. You realize the FSW is occurring after everyone is dead, right? That could be 100 years or more after the bomb went off since Hugo, the island protector, does not age, and can make it so Ben does not age, just as Jacob and Richard were for hundreds of years.[/quote]
You’re 100% right. The bomb definitely had nothing to do with the “flash-sideways”, which was really a part of their afterlife that we saw. We were led to believe that all season, but it really wasn’t the case. THAT is what the twist was.
And without question, Juliet saying “it worked” was her seeing into that afterlife because that’s exactly what she said to Sawyer at the vending machine.
[quote comment="375953"][quote comment="375951"]
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)[/quote]
Sorry, I’m not seeing your logic. The FSW was created by them, not the bomb. You realize the FSW is occurring after everyone is dead, right? That could be 100 years or more after the bomb went off since Hugo, the island protector, does not age, and can make it so Ben does not age, just as Jacob and Richard were for hundreds of years.[/quote]
Here is my logic. They created the FSW because of the bomb. They thought that if the bomb went off, they would never crash. They believed it worked (especially since Juliet said it did) therefore bomb = FSW. The bomb had EVERYTHING to do with FSW.
[quote comment="375966"][quote comment="375953"][quote comment="375951"]
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)[/quote]
Sorry, I’m not seeing your logic. The FSW was created by them, not the bomb. You realize the FSW is occurring after everyone is dead, right? That could be 100 years or more after the bomb went off since Hugo, the island protector, does not age, and can make it so Ben does not age, just as Jacob and Richard were for hundreds of years.[/quote]
You’re 100% right. The bomb definitely had nothing to do with the “flash-sideways”, which was really a part of their afterlife that we saw. We were led to believe that all season, but it really wasn’t the case. THAT is what the twist was.
And without question, Juliet saying “it worked” was her seeing into that afterlife because that’s exactly what she said to Sawyer at the vending machine.[/quote]
Just wondering how you say that 100% the bomb had nothing to do with the afterlife, but then say that Juliet saw into the afterlife and said it worked? WHAT do you think worked if not the bomb?
[quote comment="375965"][quote comment="375951"]Brain fart, the bomb and the drilling is what caused incident which is why they built the hatch in the original time line.
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)[/quote]
1. Time travel happens when Desmond does not push the button…
2. The skips that the island experiences start when the hatch is exploded…
3. It is between 1974 and 1977 that time travel is discovered to be the cause by Dharma, and then by Dharma that time travel is caused.
4. If Jack is creating people in his mind like his son in FSW, is it possible that he created characters in his mind all along, like Christian Sheppard for example. Or even Jacob? Is it possible that Jack always WAS Jacob, and he just couldnt accept the role, so he created Jacob? Island time can have that effect right? (Walts polar bear).[/quote]
How do you not love wally P? Dude – I find it harder to wrap my brain around your posts than anything I saw on the damn show! I edited your post to reply in a simple format.
1. When Des didn’t press the button, what time travel event did you see? The only time traveling that occured was when the donkey wheel was turned. Next!
2. I think you skipped seasons 3 and 4. Hatch implodes at end of season 2, skips start in season 5 after Ben turns donkey wheel.
3. Your going to have to reference an ep. for this one. That just sounds made up.
4. You’re really losing me on this one. You will never be able to explain this better to me. It’s just too far removed from what actually happened on the show.
[quote comment="375969"][quote comment="375965"][quote comment="375951"]Brain fart, the bomb and the drilling is what caused incident which is why they built the hatch in the original time line.
I stand by the FSW being created by the bomb (in their minds….etc.)[/quote]
1. Time travel happens when Desmond does not push the button…
2. The skips that the island experiences start when the hatch is exploded…
3. It is between 1974 and 1977 that time travel is discovered to be the cause by Dharma, and then by Dharma that time travel is caused.
4. If Jack is creating people in his mind like his son in FSW, is it possible that he created characters in his mind all along, like Christian Sheppard for example. Or even Jacob? Is it possible that Jack always WAS Jacob, and he just couldnt accept the role, so he created Jacob? Island time can have that effect right? (Walts polar bear).[/quote]
How do you not love wally P? Dude – I find it harder to wrap my brain around your posts than anything I saw on the damn show! I edited your post to reply in a simple format.
1. When Des didn’t press the button, what time travel event did you see? The only time traveling that occured was when the donkey wheel was turned. Next!
2. I think you skipped seasons 3 and 4. Hatch implodes at end of season 2, skips start in season 5 after Ben turns donkey wheel.
3. Your going to have to reference an ep. for this one. That just sounds made up.
4. You’re really losing me on this one. You will never be able to explain this better to me. It’s just too far removed from what actually happened on the show.[/quote]
wally p:
sector7 is right about the time travel.
Desmond not pushing the button caused Oceanic 815 to crash.
After Desmond turned the fail-safe key that imploded the Hatch at the Swan Station, he gained the ability to see visions and flashes of other time lines such as seeing different occasions when Charlie was going to die or Naomi parachuting onto the island. This was not time travel.
Dharma was doing experiments concerning time travel and cloning bunnies at the Orchid Station. Turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel, that was located below the Orchid, transported you to the exit in Tunisia. That’s where Ben and Locke ended up and that’s where Charlotte found the remains of a Dharma polar bear.
Jack AND Juliette created David. Appearances of Christian were manifestations of MIB. Jack didn’t make them up in his mind. Jacob was real. Jack was NOT Jacob. If Jack and Jacob were one and the same, why didn’t Jack disappear or die when Ben stabbed Jacob? Across the Sea showed us Jacob and MIB’s beginnings. Richard knew Jacob and MIB from the 1800′s. MIB and Richard would have known the truth. Surely MIB would know his own brother. Jacob never appeared as anyone else like the MIB did. Look at all the different times Hurley spoke to Jacob after he was killed. Did Jack imagine Jacob passing the job of Protector to him? NO. Did Hurley, Sawyer and Kate imagine seeing Jacob sitting there while Jack was also present? NO. Jacob said he wanted his successor to have something he never had, A CHOICE. Mother lied to him and said he didn’t HAVE a choice and had to be the Protector. Jack volunteered to take the responsibility. Sorry wally.
Ok, ok, I was taking a long shot on Jack creating characters in his mind. But isnt it just a little bit strange that Christians body was NEVER found?
And we know that Walt could project imaginary images (those polar bears were all him, dont forget… AND STILL they ended up as remains in the desert—And part of Dharma in the seventies)
There is more to the puzzle is all I’m saying. The time travel may not have STARTED when Desmond missed the button, but the chain of events from thereafter lead to time travel starting. In other words, opening the flood gates that were closed in by the hatch after the incident….
The skips in season five show that the loop is not a perfect loop… it skips (remember Daniel explained it like a record?) but it does (or DID) start and end in the same spot. 2004.
Like this maybe? 2004=the donkey wheel goes off axis. 1974= the donkey wheel goes back on axis. 1977=incident (leads to the hatch being built) 2004=desmond messes up.
2004-2004 LOOP.
Ok, so if we all agree that they did not die during the crash or after the bomb went off, then how could the FSW have anything to do with being created by the bomb? It was a place they created in their minds to go to wait on each other to die so they could all move on together. They were waiting on Jack to see and recognize this. Once he did, they all moved on.
[quote comment="375974"]Ok, so if we all agree that they did not die during the crash or after the bomb went off, then how could the FSW have anything to do with being created by the bomb? It was a place they created in their minds to go to wait on each other to die so they could all move on together. They were waiting on Jack to see and recognize this. Once he did, they all moved on.[/quote]
I have come to terms with FSW being created in their minds… but more the way I see it is that by escaping the loop they have allowed themselves to move on. Allowing them to exist in FSW without any prior knowledge of existance anywhere else.
Jack is diffent because when the plane crashed, he flashed out of it, he woke up way in the jungle… NOT NORMAL! He was definately stuck in a loop, and him even being on Oceanic in the first place has got to be the result of something that happened before to him on the island… indicating that he was already stuck there. (yes, now roll your eyes all around your face if you want to…)
They waited in the FSW because they had no choice. Jack escaping the loop is “THE END” and is the ONLY end,,,but without his friends helping him in the physical realm AND the spiritual realm, he would not have finally escaped. SOMETHING would have happened to bring him back to square one, and the whole thing would have started over.
2007-2004 LOOP
@above
Dude I used to absolutely love anything associated with the time loop theories, but alas the show doesn’t give any true decipherable intel on Jack in a loop (I’ll scream if someone says to look deeper)…The flashing to the same spot in the bamboo forest would only make sense if the Time Travel ended up being the core theme of the show or if the island was purgatory IMO (Which I don’t subscribe even faintly too, although I suspect D&C always WANTED the island to be purgatory until the fans figured it out and the others went from savages to guys with makeup on and fake beards, but this point aside)…I don’t see how the loop theory is manageable even from Jack’s personal perspective if the actual time travel component of the show has zero connection with this…I don’t think there’s enuff of anything to support a simultaneous spiritual and physical loop that was never gonna end until Jack figured things out…
Just my view…
@Wingman (and everyone else)
Refining as I go, dont get frusterated, I just like playing with the details…
Time Travel was a major detail, not purgatory. Purgatory didnt even last until the end of season one. I believe more that the whisperers are really people stuck in time then I do ghosts. Think Walt as a whisperer.
I said this a long time ago… before the bomb you can basically say that the losties, while skipping in time, are no different than the whisperers to everyone they come in contact with. Its sort of like “I’m here, but I’m not really here”
I think there is a similar component involoved with other characters along the way that appear sporadically.
AFTER the bomb, they are no longer whisperers because their spiritual half has been split from their physical half. With the two sides having split, their physical is removed from the grip of time travel…
Never in the show do they say (or even show us) that the FSW was created in their minds. But they do show us that in the FSW they create that “final place” together.
I dont know the best way to put this— but time travel was never entirely what it seemed. Time travel was a negative energy. The grip.
FSW is the positive counterpart. The release.
Once the two are split, then the body and the spirit escape the loop created by time travel,
but are not completely free of it until the both sides are joined together again in the final place.
fLocke needed to leave the island because he wanted to replace Locke in the FSW, which would make it fLockes spirit that passes through and then he would destroy everything. Does that make any sense?
I still say there was a Loop. Just not in season six at all because that part was left behind. If Jack had not succeeded, FSW would have cancelled out and the loop would have started again. Otherwise I can see absolutely no point in there being the fLocke aspect at all. Or even time travel at all.
Maybe there wasnt… but I think I can see the overall arch pretty cleary as this.
@wally P
I do understand what you’re saying and I honestly don’t think it’s all that bad, but if this was truly the case wouldn’t there have to be some semblance of universal understanding applied with it? You could teach a college class on just the interpretation of that theory and have the class would still fail…Which is to say that while I get it, it’s not easily digestible even for those who look deeper…I honestly like it if you underemphasis the loop aspect, because again IMO the show betrays the loop theory by essentially not even touching it in anyway that can be universally accepted (Again, this is where we get into the “I saw something deeper than you could debate”)…
With you’re theory in mind I’ll just mesh it with my own, however I think mines is a little more digestible (given D &C incredible lack of clarity IMO)…the island is both a physical place and a metaphysical place…It is a place between worlds…If the place on the otherside of the island is the “afterlife” then it makes sense that things that take place on the island can directly correlate…That place is also timeless so it’s actually always taking place (In other words you’re already and always dead there no matter what’s happening in either reality or island reality)… It was the collective wish of our TT Losties to have created a scenario where they never crashed on the island, and since the island is the mid-point of these realities, when exposed to these phenomenons you (mentally) can exhibit a commune with your otherself…When Juliet exploded the nuke near the islands power source it tore that reality and made a mental commune with the otherside possible where that world was created (Which I think was the ultimate red-herring on how they established the mental-time traveling in earlier seasons—We thought it was traveling thru time when it was actually traveling thru worlds)…I think them all winding back in 2007 was the answer to a paradox…
To me that’s more digestible despite the hypocrisy I’m sure to have ignored…Now if they had done anything (Like having Jack open his eyes again and it was the first-episode him waking up on the ground ready to start things over again…Or Ben mention the reason mothers couldn’t have babies because he was creating a temporal time-loop to hide the island from Widmore) I would be pushing Loop stuff like a crazy man…
I mean there’s just so many contradictions in this show it makes it hard to settle on one thing, but to me, the loop-stuff, stuff I loved to theorize on seems very paltry in-comparison …I really wish LOST’s final reveal would have been as cool as your theory of spiritual and physical duality…That would have been cooler than a Limbo Class Reunion, but it seems like so much $hit had to happen offscreen for it to work…
[quote comment="375975"][quote comment="375974"] [/quote]
I have come to terms with FSW being created in their minds… but more the way I see it is that by escaping the loop they have allowed themselves to move on. Allowing them to exist in FSW without any prior knowledge of existance anywhere else.
Jack is diffent because when the plane crashed, he flashed out of it, he woke up way in the jungle… NOT NORMAL! He was definately stuck in a loop, and him even being on Oceanic in the first place has got to be the result of something that happened before to him on the island… indicating that he was already stuck there. (yes, now roll your eyes all around your face if you want to…)
They waited in the FSW because they had no choice. Jack escaping the loop is “THE END” and is the ONLY end,,,but without his friends helping him in the physical realm AND the spiritual realm, he would not have finally escaped. SOMETHING would have happened to bring him back to square one, and the whole thing would have started over.
2007-2004 LOOP[/quote]
Jack had injuries when he woke up in the bamboo forest that he wouldn’t have if he just flashed out of the plane. If you remember, Bernard was still buckled in his seat and he was up in a tree when Ana Lucia and Goodwin found him. When Kate and Sawyer went for a swim by that waterfall, there were dead bodies under the water still buckled in their seats too.
[quote comment="375973"]Ok, ok, I was taking a long shot on Jack creating characters in his mind. But isnt it just a little bit strange that Christians body was NEVER found?
And we know that Walt could project imaginary images (those polar bears were all him, dont forget… AND STILL they ended up as remains in the desert—And part of Dharma in the seventies)
[/quote]
Well we know Christian’s body was somewhere on the island otherwise MIB wouldn’t have been able to appear as him. Jack found his empty coffin at the caves but he HAD been in there before the plane crashed.
Walt was reading Hurley’s comic book with a polar bear on the cover and later a polar bear attacked Walt in the jungle. Was this a coincidence or not, I don’t know. Walt was not responsible for the other encounters with the bears though since they were already there. (brought to the island by Dharma)
Belle…882, didnt consider the back half of the plane… in that I guess the flash theory could be nixed… but they did flash out off Ajira.
At first I thought about smoke using CHristians body, but if that was tru he would have needed Lockes body too. And MIB’s body for that matter. We know where Lockes body is and MIBs body, but we never saw Christians body.
You could say that Walt and the polar bear was a coincidence, but what about him looking at the bird pictures in Australia and then the same bird flew into the window? Polar bears would really be a strange thing to just bring to a tropical island, but I’m sure they would use them if they were convieniently just there. Especially if they suspected that a polar bear could travel through time…
@wally
The only thing stuck in a loop is you, my friend.
In the back of the church, Christian said to Jack, “This is the place that you all made together, so that you could find one another”. People can only “make” things with their hands or with their minds, and I don’t think they made the FSW with their hands…
In one ep., an Other said that DHARMA brought the polar bears to the island. Sure it’s strange that they brought polar bears to the island, but they did, to use them in experiments.
[quote comment="375977"]@Wingman (and everyone else)
Refining as I go, dont get frusterated, I just like playing with the details…
fLocke needed to leave the island because he wanted to replace Locke in the FSW, which would make it fLockes spirit that passes through and then he would destroy everything. Does that make any sense?
quote]
Does it make any sense??? Did you read what you wrote?
Hell no that doesn’t make any sense. Flocke did not know of the FSW, and sure as hell could not travel there.
I’ll say this – we will never know if Flocke would have destroyed the world or would have killed everyone on earth or what he would have done had he been able to leave. There are no clues to tell us of his off-island intentions except for what Hawking, Widmore and Jacob said. But what would Flocke’s motivation had been to destroy the world? All he ever wanted was to see what was across the sea. He never displayed a need to kill for anything other than to leave the island so he could see things.
Reading some of these comments, I find it interesting that I am being torn between feeling disappointed in the finale to loving it. I was an emotional mess watching it, saying goodbye to all of these wonderful characters that have been able to really touch me in terms of what the writers were trying to convey. Messages about life, love, hate, morality, loyalty, greed…. it was a microcosm of the human experience as we know it.
Thinking about why I feel torn, I am only left with this rationale: I have so much love for this show that I have a loyalty to it that has manifested in me overlooking the shortcomings that are apparent and undeniable. Yet I am here ready to admit it, and am still a giant LOSTie. I think that more time should have devoted to **planning ahead** by the writers- alot of episodes dragged on (and on), unnecessary side stories, etc. I really per say did not have an issue with any shortcomings of the finale (which I found beautifully poetic), it was what led up to it. I am still surprised that Walt and Aaron’s importance was completely ..forgotten about? Claire’s character became almost unwatchable for me- she could not pull of neurotic like Danielle. Sayid’s character’s demise felt wrong for what he went through and the growth he had from Season 1. Sun and Jin- well, they might as well have reunited them then killed them in the same episode. No respect was shown whatsoever for them or their storyline by the blatant and unashamed melodramatic ending they had.
I think that it became a melodrama in the end. I don’t think it needed to, not at all. I think that the writer’s were so good at their job and so used to writing pure gold, that they thought they could write it all in at the last minute and get a big old A++ on that paper. “Slacker-syndrome”, if you will. They were writing the season as they were filming it. Things needed to be planned, proofread, and really thought about more- they had about 2 dozen balls in the air and had no good plans of how they weren’t going to fall. I still love LOST and what it gave to us all, but these things I feel are kind of undeniable.
[quote comment="375981"]Belle…882, didnt consider the back half of the plane… in that I guess the flash theory could be nixed… but they did flash out off Ajira.
At first I thought about smoke using CHristians body, but if that was tru he would have needed Lockes body too. And MIB’s body for that matter. We know where Lockes body is and MIBs body, but we never saw Christians body.
You could say that Walt and the polar bear was a coincidence, but what about him looking at the bird pictures in Australia and then the same bird flew into the window? Polar bears would really be a strange thing to just bring to a tropical island, but I’m sure they would use them if they were convieniently just there. Especially if they suspected that a polar bear could travel through time…[/quote]
wally P…. Correct. We know where MIB’s body and Locke’s body were. IMO they never showed us Christian’s body so they could keep us wondering what the heck was going on and to add to the mystery. His body WAS there somewhere. Before we knew MIB was taking his form, Jack saw “Christian” several times and chased him, we saw him in the cabin with Claire, Hurley and Locke saw him in Jacob’s cabin and he told Locke to turn the Frozen Donkey Wheel below the Orchid Station.
Yes, Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid flashed off the Ajira plane onto the island and wound up in 1977.
According to what was written on the blast door map in the hatch at the Swan Station, Dharma was conducting experiments using polar bears. They were attempting to alter the genes of the bears to allow them to survive in warm climates. Also if you remember the bear cages Sawyer and Kate were in on Hydra Island, if Sawyer pushed the buttons and pulled the levers in the correct sequence, he got water and a fish biscuit. If he did it wrong he got shocked.
Walt definitely caused the bird, the same one he was looking at in the book, (Australian Bronze Cuckoo) to fly into the sliding glass door. He was angry because Brian wasn’t paying attention to him and he caused the bird’s death. He killed more birds while the Others were holding him captive and did other things that made people afraid of him. We never found out exactly what else he did to frighten the Others.
Allowing Walt to leave the island was probably a wise decision. With Walt’s abilities, lack of self control and temper, he could have been very dangerous if the MIB was able to influence him. IMO anyway.
For me, the ending of lost was perfectly perfect. ” well in the end, my friend, we will all be together again”. I was into lost mostly due to the insanely good character development. The side plots, ie numbers, dharma, children, made the show interesting, but that wasn’t why i watched. Anyway their time on the island reminded me of this quote from a separate piece.
“Everyone has a moment in history which belongs particularly to him. It is the moment when his emotions achieve their most powerful sway over him, and afterward when you say to this person “the world today” or “life” or “reality” he will assume that you mean this moment, even if it is fifty years past. The world, through his unleashed emotions, imprinted itself upon him, and he carries the stamp of that passing moment forever. “
[quote comment="375983"][quote comment="375977"]
I’ll say this – we will never know if Flocke would have destroyed the world or would have killed everyone on earth or what he would have done had he been able to leave. There are no clues to tell us of his off-island intentions except for what Hawking, Widmore and Jacob said. But what would Flocke’s motivation had been to destroy the world? All he ever wanted was to see what was across the sea. He never displayed a need to kill for anything other than to leave the island so he could see things.[/quote]
I’ve thought about that too. I get the fact that if the light went out on the island, it would go out everywhere and somehow that spelled catastrophe, BUT, what if Flocke did manage to sail or fly away and Jack regained consciousness after MIB left and put the cork back in place before it was too late. What would have happened? If MIB was human again, how could he have wrecked havoc in the world?
We were told all the Candidates had to be eliminated in order for MIB to leave the island. What if Flocke had accomplished that before Jack became the new Protector? I assume he’d still be “supernatural” and a Smokey.(The light going out was what made him human again.) In his present state I could see him being a threat to mankind if he wanted to be. He did loathe humans as he repeated Mother’s words many times. They were only a means to an end. Was it even possible for him to leave in that form? Did the island, his prison, have to be destroyed or was it an act of anger? If Desmond hadn’t been brought back, how could that have been accomplished? If Desmond could survive pulling the cork, didn’t MIB know he could also put it back and survive?
[quote comment="375987"][quote comment="375983"][quote comment="375977"]
I’ll say this – we will never know if Flocke would have destroyed the world or would have killed everyone on earth or what he would have done had he been able to leave. There are no clues to tell us of his off-island intentions except for what Hawking, Widmore and Jacob said. But what would Flocke’s motivation had been to destroy the world? All he ever wanted was to see what was across the sea. He never displayed a need to kill for anything other than to leave the island so he could see things.[/quote]
I’ve thought about that too. I get the fact that if the light went out on the island, it would go out everywhere and somehow that spelled catastrophe, BUT, what if Flocke did manage to sail or fly away and Jack regained consciousness after MIB left and put the cork back in place before it was too late. What would have happened? If MIB was human again, how could he have wrecked havoc in the world?
We were told all the Candidates had to be eliminated in order for MIB to leave the island. What if Flocke had accomplished that before Jack became the new Protector? I assume he’d still be “supernatural” and a Smokey.(The light going out was what made him human again.) In his present state I could see him being a threat to mankind if he wanted to be. He did loathe humans as he repeated Mother’s words many times. They were only a means to an end. Was it even possible for him to leave in that form? Did the island, his prison, have to be destroyed or was it an act of anger? If Desmond hadn’t been brought back, how could that have been accomplished? If Desmond could survive pulling the cork, didn’t MIB know he could also put it back and survive?[/quote]
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My thoughts exactly. Ya know there is one thing that I can’t get past. The island water. The water in the temple that heals obviously comes from the spring in the cave, which is the source of the light and the water. I would speculate that the island’s ability to quickly heal wounds is probably a result from people drinking the island water. But if the island water heals, then why did Jack die? After returning the cork, Jack is showered by the same water that healed Ben and Sayid (I would say the reason Sayid contracted the sickness and his resurrection was delayed was because after Jacob’s death the balance of power had shifted more towards the darkness). Jack’s bath in the cave should have healed him! I can believe that the healing process might not be instant, though. However, this means that sometime after closing his eyes for the last time, Jack will open them again.
@lizzy1220 -
“I have a loyalty to it that has manifested in me overlooking the shortcomings that are apparent and undeniable…”
This pretty much pixilates my feelings aswelll…My head tells me I should wanna strangle D&C for snake-oiling me on certain aspects of this show, but my heart and overall nostalgia and sentimentality gives me something to always hold on to and to appreciate…
I’ve always been good at compartmentalizing so I can go back and forth and have fun with theories while ultimately understanding the hypocrisy I have to ignore while doing so…I’ll never buy the absolutely strategic campaign of “It’s all about the characters” that they decided to implement somewhere during season 5 as if it was some clever bait and switch I wouldn’t catch on to, but LOST will always hold a special place for me…Because at it’s best it was the best thing I probably ever watched and even at it’s worst it was still better than so much more, and despite the fact I stand EXACTLY in the middle between those who unquestionably loved it and those who are bitterly disappointed in it, it will always hold special value for me…Because it’s the only show that could…
[quote comment="375991"][quote comment="375987"][quote comment="375983"][quote comment="375977"]
[/quote]
[/quote]
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My thoughts exactly. Ya know there is one thing that I can’t get past. The island water. The water in the temple that heals obviously comes from the spring in the cave, which is the source of the light and the water. I would speculate that the island’s ability to quickly heal wounds is probably a result from people drinking the island water. But if the island water heals, then why did Jack die? After returning the cork, Jack is showered by the same water that healed Ben and Sayid (I would say the reason Sayid contracted the sickness and his resurrection was delayed was because after Jacob’s death the balance of power had shifted more towards the darkness). Jack’s bath in the cave should have healed him! I can believe that the healing process might not be instant, though. However, this means that sometime after closing his eyes for the last time, Jack will open them again.[/quote]
I’ve always loved the show and just accepted things as they came. Now, almost a month later, some things have me puzzled and what you mentioned about the water is one of them. You’re right. Jack should have been healed but then they couldn’t have had the dramatic ending of him dying in the same spot where he woke up after the crash. Obviously it wouldn’t work if he were dead or perhaps if his injuries were extensive like the Marshall from the plane or perhaps Boone. What special powers did Jack even have? Mother and Jacob had abilities or powers. Couldn’t Jack have hidden the Light Source the same way Mother and Jacob did?
Another thing I’ve been thinking about for weeks is the skeletons at the Source. How could they be there? We know that MIB’s body and Jack were ejected from the cavern. Either ancient Egyptians or perhaps Sumerians built the cork, pool and whatever else was down there. The Sumerians used hieroglyphs before using cuneiform. We could be talking as far back as 5000B.C.. How did they manage to do that and not die from the strongest level of electromagnetism on the island? Were they like Desmond? What are the odds that several people could survive down there like Desmond? If it were possible, did they decide to stay down there? How did they die? Why didn’t they turn into Smoke Monsters? Can there be only one Smokey at a time? Did they go down by rope like Desmond was lowered down or is there another way in? We know there is a network of underground tunnels under the island. When Desmond pulled the cork out, the light went out, the water stopped flowing and we saw the lava from a volcano. Earthquakes began breaking up the island and it would have sunk. I can look past the Donkey Wheel but this really has me stumped.
I feel the same way. I was an emotional mess watching the finale too. There will never be another show like LOST. I loved the characters, the mysteries and the scenery. At the beginning of this season when they were showing what we thought was the “FSW”, I didn’t care for it. I felt like they were wasting time. I accepted it thinking it had to be important. I remember back in season 2 when they started showing the people from the tail section of the plane I felt the same. I didn’t WANT to see THESE people, I wanted the people we came to know in season 1. After an episode or two I got used to it and it turned out to be another great season. Something was a bit off this year. I really wish the FSW had been something other than a “waiting room”. The writers wanted to go out with a twist and they did. Yeah it made for a happy reunion but it kind of came out of left field. I believe in God, Heaven and Hell, so that’s not the problem. I’m not criticizing the writers or think I could write a better ending. It just somehow didn’t quite fit to me. It felt like an episode of Ghost Whisperer where they couldn’t cross over yet and needed to be told they were dead. It’s not disappointment that any theories I had were wrong either. I’ve been wrong plenty of times for sure. It did really surprise me about Widmore though. Big, bad formidable Charles with all his power, money, people (to add to the body count), high tech equipment and supposedly a PLAN amounted to nothing except bringing Desmond back, which Jacob told him to do any way. I guess to me, the ending (at the Church) didn’t do justice to the awesome show it’s been over the years. Each season has ended with a Wow or a Whoa moment but this year was a What?!
I still love LOST and always will but like you said lizzy, did they just slack off a bit because it was the end?
Can’t believe you guys are still here! (Not sure if this is a good thing or bad.)
(For you and me.)
OK, well I’m still here… if everything else I’ve said on this blog is just ridiculous to everyone else, I just want to say that I have deep thought out the smoke monster thing, and it is the only thing that I am truly irked about. The smoke monster exists on the island when it is summoned. I will say that Ben is probably the one who is responsible for summoning it in the first place. The smoke is an evil and was NEVER actually one of the human characters (he was NOT MIB!)
throughout the show smoke appeared as other people, we all agree on that. But yet as much evidence is pointed against it, everyone still tells me that MIB turned into the smoke monster. BUT the REAL reason that smoke monster was about, was because the old lady summoned him to kill the people that were influencing her son (the MIB) She had to return the favor, or pay a debt, the usual outcome of making a deal with the devil. The debt was the MIB soul. The smoke as we know also has aquired the souls of others, Bens daughter for example Alex. Thats how he gets around. In the end Jack defeated him, but the mythology of the series shows that someday, in another time or life, someone will summon that smoke again… when they do, I’ll be here
I have a question? to all thoes including my mom,dad and best friend and people who say lost is a about the characters when everyone goes to sights like this one and many others just theorizing about the mysteries . too me it was 50/50 mystery /character afterall it was kates back story in what kate does that drew me to the show, so what im saying is if the characters got a complete ending i thing intreging questions: Like walt,dharma food drops,hurley birds, who built the statue, Why did mib turn to the smoke or did he release the smoke and never was a monster, was mother a smoke monster, what were the doors and dead bodies doing down there and the dead bodies based quesions if those were answered i would have been satified so i wish in maybe ten years from now someone as brilliant as jj abrams and Darlton comes up with lost pre first generation or second generation and answer these questions
This episode should be titled “Sorry folks, we have no time nor funds to wrap your solutions pack up so please accept these raw finale accompanied with lots of fried onion and mustard to kill the taste of dissapointment”
Sorry, it will be straight forward and practical rant. If you are not happy with this kind of opinion, please do not continue your reading below.
Ok, I am a full time SF/action writer (not going to give my true identity here so my opinion could be anonymous). All I can say about the show and its ending is that my publisher would not ever let me write such a story with so many open and loose tails in it… The show DID in fact contained elements of both, science and fiction subjects and no matter how much drama was in it (the characters, the relationship stuff like that) it just has to ballance the things for the audience. It HAS to make sense in EVERY area it evolves and revolves around. It just a base rule for every story that is (to be) written.
I realize there is a difference in tv and book publishing, yet a good writer remains good writer, whatever it is one writes for. Period fucking dot. Too many dead ends, sidetracks and unaswered questions left in any story is obvious disqualifier in todays market. What the authors just did is they hurt not only the fans of the show, but themselves in the very first place. The story had so many flaws and made-only-for-keeping-the-action-going plots for a professional publisher is an obvious red light for hiring the writer(s) never again.
Ok, for those, who can leave with the given explanation that the show was more on the characters than other things (drama vs. sf), how would you say the characters like Charlie, Libby, the Kwans, Ana Lucia, Juliet, Mr. Eko and many others have died for? In the name of an open, unidentified, left for discussions, so called “greater good”? If that is the case here, why would the authors bother with the characters development for those? One can always say that it was required to build another character. Ok, that might be a true, but this is a story, not a real life, and while life can always be a surprise with all its twists and dead ends, written stories have to obey some basic rules to be successful. The wrap up of the Lost show violates those rules in huge extend.
I do realize that feelings and emotions are the stronger fuel for human judgement. Yet most of the greatest men in our world’s history had have always stripped of these when making decisions. So the judgment on the show should let the emotions to be set aside, suspended, if it’s to be exact and true.
And finally the ending itself. Just ask your yourself and try to answer as honestly as you can: what movie, show or book you’ve ever seen or read, the finale end would not fit into? See what I mean? The ending that fits almost any plot makes the story itself distant and irrelevant. Unless there’s going to be Lost 2 show
Long-time reader of this blog and never saw Lost while it was on TV, but decided to sit down and watch the entire series this summer with my brother.
First, I loved the ending and want to tip my hat to all those who could stand to watch this for six years, week-to-week, I could have never done it!
Ultimately, I do understand both sides of the argument that the show ended perfectly and horribly – I will admit that I agree with former. Yes, there are unanswered questions, most of which I find to be dumb and not necessary anyway, but I feel it doesn’t matter. It’s interesting that people feel gipped that Dharma, Walt, and the Others were essentially unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but I must admit that Season 2, full of nothing but pushing that button in the hatch is my favorite. The themes of faith vs. reason, destiny vs. free will, and salvation through redemption were really what drove the show – everyone ended up who they were MEANT to be with.
I love all the theories (…well, most of them) on here and it’s great to hear that people are still talking about this show. There were definitely faults about the show (the entire first half of Season 3 was just awful) and it’s clear that they set things up that never pulled through (Walt, Aaron?), but at the end of the day, you can use the themes of the show to answer the fact that – yeah, Walt was special, but he was not the only one that was special. The island let him go because it had other people working for it. Aaron had to be raised by Claire because that’s what the island wanted. When he wasn’t raised by her, ie. when Kate took him off the island, that wasn’t what was supposed to happen. Those people were never meant to get off the island – they were meant to be there and fight for the goodness of the light on the island and always meet each other.
I only hope the bitter people who claim that the finale ruined their entire television experience (overdramatic, but several on here have said that…), just think: did it really? Regardless if the show ended the way you wanted it or not, you have to admit that you were at least moved by SOMETHING or SOMEONE on the show. In the end, it wasn’t for nothing. You got something out of it along those six years, whether you know it or not.
[quote comment="376034"]Long-time reader of this blog and never saw Lost while it was on TV, but decided to sit down and watch the entire series this summer with my brother.
First, I loved the ending and want to tip my hat to all those who could stand to watch this for six years, week-to-week, I could have never done it!
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I am really curious as to what your experience was like reading this blog w/o watching the show? How much sense did what was being said on here make? Some of the comments (i.e. smoke monster) must have sounded just crazy. Without being passionately vested in these characters…did you really care about what was being said about them? I just can’t imagine reading this blog (which I love) and not watching the show. I agree w/most of what you said, except that you could have not watched it week to week, for 6 years. Don’t forget, there was also season to season. Try to imagine waiting all those months for it to pick up again! I have watched the series all the way through each summer, up to the point of the current years season and really found it more rewarding watching it week to week. You got to really think through each episode and read the blogs each week to see what others were thinking and theorizing. It made for an interesting experience for 6 years and I would not have missed it for anything!
Sorry if this has been posted, but what is this about:
http://www.dejavurl.com/trailer/Lost_Epilogue-The_New_Man_In_Charge
[quote comment="376035"]Long-time reader of this blog and never saw Lost while it was on TV, but decided to sit down and watch the entire series this summer with my brother.
First, I loved the ending and want to tip my hat to all those who could stand to watch this for six years, week-to-week, I could have never done it![/quote]
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[quote comment="376034"]I am really curious as to what your experience was like reading this blog w/o watching the show? How much sense did what was being said on here make? Some of the comments (i.e. smoke monster) must have sounded just crazy. Without being passionately vested in these characters…did you really care about what was being said about them? I just can’t imagine reading this blog (which I love) and not watching the show. I agree w/most of what you said, except that you could have not watched it week to week, for 6 years. Don’t forget, there was also season to season. Try to imagine waiting all those months for it to pick up again! I have watched the series all the way through each summer, up to the point of the current years season and really found it more rewarding watching it week to week. You got to really think through each episode and read the blogs each week to see what others were thinking and theorizing. It made for an interesting experience for 6 years and I would not have missed it for anything![/quote]
Well, I actually read this blog WHILE watching the show. It took us just about all summer, about three months, and I never wanted to be spoiled, so I started reading each episode feedback after watching the episodes. Even though the comments were written years before, I still felt part of a community, trying to figure out everything even though everyone’s idea were out-dated
It was a great bonding experience to be able to see other people’s ideas and look back in retrospect to see all those people who were correct! As for waiting six years and those LONG summers…I honestly couldn’t have done it. I could barely stand the time it took for us to switch Netflix discs between seasons, haha. I bow to your patience and strength!
[quote comment="376036"]Sorry if this has been posted, but what is this about:
http://www.dejavurl.com/trailer/Lost_Epilogue-The_New_Man_In_Charge/quote
Well they answered (close enough I’ll take what I can get) some questions and even make it seem like they’re gonna keep this thing going a bit. I do appreciate that effort.
Allright gang, I solved the puzzle! I couldn’t have done it without the help of A. Hughes on Amazon, by introducing the theory that the light is the “archive”… I had to copy and repost my revelation here. Thoughts?
A. Hughes, you just set my mind on fire! Here comes a long one!
“The Island is advanced technology, alive in a way, that requires a human control.”
I like this. I also like what you said about the light. It is the “archive” as you put it. The source. There really is no better way to put it then that…
Alot of people think that MIB became the smoke, but that is not the case. The smoke was always the smoke, the smoke could puppet the images of MIB because he was basically “archived” memory. (Think of the light as a “flash” that captures a picture of your whole life once you die…) every little flash in that giant ball of light belongs to someone different. For the most part each flash is only accesible to the person it belongs to…
i.e. Jacks flash is only available in Jacks memory… (unless you happen to be “special” but I’ll get to that)
This makes the ending ESSENTIAL Jack and Co. walking into that light at the end signifies that they were in the light all along (“There is no time here, Jack”) The “flash-foward” memories exist because the source holds each characters memories up to the point when they die. Just as our natural minds can access the past through the archives of our own memory, the light allows our memory to remember our entire lives, even into the future, from our birth until our death as long as we choose to go into the light in the end. (Choose is the key word) This is why babies born on the island or people who are “special” are also considered dangerous. They have a supreme connection to everyone in the archive.
(A. Hughes I do not think that the Sideways world is in the light, I think that the sideways is the memory of real life after the bomb. It is still archived memory in the light, not an artificial world… The losties have archived their original memories, as well as their sideways ones… this is why some characters ASPIRE to be stuck in the loop, it presents them with an expanded archive, through multiple lives…)
The smoke has the power to intercept these memories from the light if the light is not protected. One could say that the old lady’s belief of “not going into the light” could be because of the position she holds. Her one-ness with the island. It is too much knowledge to pass on into the light. She does not want to risk the memories being accesible to the smoke, let alone being STOLEN by the smoke. She has the special, all access pass. It was her choice in the end not to pass her knowledge on. Resulting in her archived memory being nothing more than questions.
The fact that losties can remember into the future “flash-foward” had signified that at some point in the future, they would all go into the light. To do that they would need to be on the island. This is why Jack was NOT supposed to LEAAVE, and why he NEEDED TO GO BACK! If Jack did not go into the light in the end, he would not have had the tools to pass the knowledge on that was essential to his victory.
So think about Across the Sea. The old lady knows that at a certain point she will die. She has played the game, played by the rules. She knows she needs a replacement and along come those twins. It is her only hope. Even her ability to see ahead does not allow her to manipulate time travel, because she does not have knowledge of “time travel” because she dies before a time when those ideas are even conceptual. When she died, 1977 and Dharma were a long way off…
In 2007, Jacob dies, and once it happens Jacob will become connected with himself throughout his entire life. Jacob and MIB (the smoke) could see it in 1865, on that beach, once it happened in 2007. Jacob knew in 1865 that he would be outlived by the smoke, and the smoke knew it too. That is why Jacob knew that he needed a replacement…
Now, since time works fowards and backwards up until 2007 in Jacobs memory, that gives Jacob plenty of time to figure out a way to manipulate the information he has archived enough to make the Black Rock appear on the beach by the next morning. It won’t be until 1977 that he can change the natural course of events, but once he figures it out (through Dharma) All he has to do is move around time a little bit, and pull some strings. As secretly as possible of course, since MIB can see everything in the archive as well, not to mention the memories that he has stolen from the light.
So, how do you keep a secret out of the archive?
You shut off the light.
What is crucial here is that the smoke always believed that he would kill Jack, afterall, he guts Jack in the kill spot, deep and fast…there is blood and everything… but Jack was still not supposed to die yet. (remember all of those guns that wouldn’t go off?) The smoke cannot remember what happens after he stabs Jack.
Remember that the smoke WANTED to turn off the light. He thinks that by turning off the light the island was left to sink and that the light stayed off forever, and that he would escape off the grid. The island would never be able to find him, and would essentially sink into the ocean.
But really the smoke was defeated. Off the grid. The real reason smoke doesn’t remember that the light goes back on, is because he is already dead.
So then, the light goes back on, life goes on, and when it doesn’t anymore, the losties go into the light, thus completing the circle. THE END.
I like twilight! I might sit and watch all day long if I did not have school..or life to stay me from doing it! lol Wonderful Just Amazing!
[quote comment="376041"]Allright gang, I solved the puzzle! I couldn’t have done it without the help of A. Hughes on Amazon, by introducing the theory that the light is the “archive”… I had to copy and repost my revelation here. Thoughts?…………………………
………………………………….
So then, the light goes back on, life goes on, and when it doesn’t anymore, the losties go into the light, thus completing the circle. THE END.[/quote]
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I periodically check the site to see if anyone is posting as although LOST is over, we are not over LOST. I knew someone would eventually post something and happy you did. I find your theory very interesting and is certainly full of things to mull over. I am currently rewatching the 6th season, so I will be keeping your post in mind as I watch. It will make the viewing much more interesting as I take your thoughts into consideration.